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    Post updated, 7/23/15. See below! At long last, I reach my 200th blog post. It's been a quite a ride! Blogging on human biodiversity – or simply humanity – has taught me a great deal. Since the start, I hoped that I could offer some meager contribution to mankind with this blog. I will continue...
  • […] post 200 Blog Posts – Everything You Need to Know (To Start) is just that. Here I review the topics I’ve discussed in the preceding 100 posts, including the […]

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  • Edit 2/24/14 [Post updated, see below] Edit 7/20/13: [Post updated as per HBD Chick's comment. See below] The European colonists (mostly British, French, and Germans, with a smattering of other groups) who first settled North America brought with them their distinct "cultural" features that laid the foundation for the persistent regional differences across the U.S....
  • […] book American Nations: A History of the Eleven Rival Regional Cultures of North America A Tentative Ranking of the Clannishness of the “Founding Fathers Maps of the American Nations Demography is Destiny, American Nations Edition Assortative migration […]

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  • Continuing my on-going series on the regional differences – genetic regional differences – between the different Euro-Americans in the United States and Canada, here I will present a series of maps demonstrating some of the evidence for the existence and significance of these differences, beyond the historical circumstances explored by David Hackett Fischer (DHF) in...
  • […] Cultures of North America A Tentative Ranking of the Clannishness of the “Founding Fathers Maps of the American Nations Demography is Destiny, American Nations Edition Assortative migration patterns A Dialect Map of […]

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  • Edit 2/24/14 [Post updated, see below] Edit 7/20/13: [Post updated as per HBD Chick's comment. See below] The European colonists (mostly British, French, and Germans, with a smattering of other groups) who first settled North America brought with them their distinct "cultural" features that laid the foundation for the persistent regional differences across the U.S....
  • […] book American Nations: A History of the Eleven Rival Regional Cultures of North America A Tentative Ranking of the Clannishness of the “Founding Fathers Maps of the American Nations Demography is Destiny, American Nations Edition Assortative migration […]

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  • Across the United States, there is a general pattern – at least among Whites – of urban dwellers tending to be more liberal and rural dwellers tending to be more conservative. Indeed, this pattern is so pronounced that Steve Sailer managed to produce a now well-known (at least in the HBD-sphere) hypothesis of White American...
  • Wouldn’t the German portion of Texas be another one of these pockets?

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  • Continuing my series on the American nations (see also A Tentative Ranking of the Clannishness of the “Founding Fathers”; Flags of the American Nations; Sound Familiar?), I take a look at the Cavaliers. The founders of the U.S. Tidewater and Deep South were people of noble blood that originated primarily from southwestern England, in an...
  • […] From what I have read, the founding stock of both the Deep South and the British West Indies was drawn heavily from the West and Metropolitan London in England. Scots-Irish settled all over the backcountry while Cavaliers tended to settle the river valleys: […]

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  • […] the Tidewater and Deep South, the home of the English Cavaliers (see The Cavaliers) in Southwest England is evidence. The Scottish link (presumably Scots-Irish that settled in the […]

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  • Updated, 9/11/15 9/4/15. See below! Throughout this blog, I've talked a lot about the American Nations – a concept, based on a book by Colin Woodard, that North America is divided into several ethno-cultural-political regional "nations". These nations are distributed approximately as shown above. The empirical bases of the existence of these ethno-cultural entities has...
  • […] Seed. Here the genetic data show that they remain alive and well. Previously, in my post Genes, Climate, and Even More Maps of the American Nations, we saw that the founding British colonists came from distinct parts of the British Isles and […]

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  • Edited, 4/11/15 3/17/14. See below! Blogger "Agnostic" over at Dusk in Autumn has a post up about the regional variation in Germany (Oktoberfest, lederhosen, dirndls and Germany's cultural fault-line). As I've noted in my posts on the American nations (most recently here, see the category here), Germany has been one of the most important countries...
  • Jayman,

    Most of the original settlers of central Texas (New Braunfels and Fredericksburg) came out of Solms, an area north of Frankfurt.

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  • One of the key points I've tried to stress on this blog is that micro-scale population structure – that is, fine genetic variation across populations can have a substantial impact on societal characteristics. We aren't just talking about continental racial variation. We aren't even talking just about ethnic variation. Sorting within an ethnic groups can...
  • […] Now, it’s important to understand what these data actually mean. These clusters do not mean that the descendants of the colonial settlers are numerically dominant in their respective regions, because they are not. Over the course of the continent’s history, the descendants of the original settlers were joined by subsequent immigrants, mostly other Europeans, who themselves settled in different parts of the country. As we saw previously in Demography Is Destiny, American Nations Edition: […]

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  • Updated, 4/6/16. See below! The 2016 U.S. presidential race has brought out a serious whirlwind of events, the likes of which haven't been seen in a long time, if ever. Despite my own expectations for a boring campaign, this election cycle has been anything but. Most significant to this excitement has been the rise of...
  • @JayMan

    On the basis of the American Nations Theory, what do you make of the fact that it were precisely the most WASPY parts of New England the only ones in the whole country to soundly reject FDR and his New Deal?
     
    This will be discussed in a future post. But the general pattern is that politically you vote for your interests, especially if you're clannish. The New Deal was heavily favored by non-WASP (clannish) Whites because it represented a redistribution from WASP Whites to themselves. Today, of course, both WASP White and non-WASP White stand to be on the losing side of that equation, but NW Euro universalism also has manifested more today.

    Thank you, I appreciate you published and answered my tardy comment. I’m looking forward to new posts!

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  • Edited, 4/11/15 3/17/14. See below! Blogger "Agnostic" over at Dusk in Autumn has a post up about the regional variation in Germany (Oktoberfest, lederhosen, dirndls and Germany's cultural fault-line). As I've noted in my posts on the American nations (most recently here, see the category here), Germany has been one of the most important countries...
  • […] See also my earlier entry Germania’s Seed? […]

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  • Updated, 4/6/16. See below! The 2016 U.S. presidential race has brought out a serious whirlwind of events, the likes of which haven't been seen in a long time, if ever. Despite my own expectations for a boring campaign, this election cycle has been anything but. Most significant to this excitement has been the rise of...
  • @Jim Hogg
    On the basis of the American Nations Theory, what do you make of the fact that it were precisely the most WASPY parts of New England the only ones in the whole country to soundly reject FDR and his New Deal? It doesn't sound me very compatible with the appeal of Scandinavian-style socialism to WEIRDO people... It's something I've recently asked Colin Woodard on his blog, but he hasn't answered yet.

    On the basis of the American Nations Theory, what do you make of the fact that it were precisely the most WASPY parts of New England the only ones in the whole country to soundly reject FDR and his New Deal?

    This will be discussed in a future post. But the general pattern is that politically you vote for your interests, especially if you’re clannish. The New Deal was heavily favored by non-WASP (clannish) Whites because it represented a redistribution from WASP Whites to themselves. Today, of course, both WASP White and non-WASP White stand to be on the losing side of that equation, but NW Euro universalism also has manifested more today.

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    • Replies: @Jim Hogg
    Thank you, I appreciate you published and answered my tardy comment. I'm looking forward to new posts!
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  • On the basis of the American Nations Theory, what do you make of the fact that it were precisely the most WASPY parts of New England the only ones in the whole country to soundly reject FDR and his New Deal? It doesn’t sound me very compatible with the appeal of Scandinavian-style socialism to WEIRDO people… It’s something I’ve recently asked Colin Woodard on his blog, but he hasn’t answered yet.

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    • Replies: @JayMan

    On the basis of the American Nations Theory, what do you make of the fact that it were precisely the most WASPY parts of New England the only ones in the whole country to soundly reject FDR and his New Deal?
     
    This will be discussed in a future post. But the general pattern is that politically you vote for your interests, especially if you're clannish. The New Deal was heavily favored by non-WASP (clannish) Whites because it represented a redistribution from WASP Whites to themselves. Today, of course, both WASP White and non-WASP White stand to be on the losing side of that equation, but NW Euro universalism also has manifested more today.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • To the same scale...Let's look at the genetic differences on that scale...And for that matter, to the same scale as the previous map... (from M.G., see also Oh for a new risorgimento)And the differences in little old Britain gave us this:(See my preceding post, More Maps of the American Nations.)I'm just sayin'...See also (via Peter...
  • Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I would say extremely similar, not identical. I am Korean and I can trace three of my grandparents to the north in Pyongan province and further trace many ancestors back hundreds of years in these regions.

    Autosomal DNA analysis shows that genes are overwhelmingly Korean. The marginal differences (less than 20-25%) are attributed to Manchurian as well as Northern Han Chinese populations, tilted more to Manchurian. I have calculated the ratio of the non-Korean ancestry to be around 60% Manchurian to 40% Chinese (using Xibo/Xibe/Sibe and Beijing Han/CHB as proxies). Keep in mind, southern Manchurian population is more gravitated to East Asian populations rather than Siberian populations (Daur and Hezhen would be intermediaries between the two, Oroqen is pulled toward Siberian). This would cause only slightly higher Siberian DNA in northern Korea than in the south. So there is only slightly more Siberian ancestry detected in me than other Koreans (less than 5%).

    Still the results show that even in the north samples should register frequently with Japanese samples as in other Korean samples. I guess this is the result of undifferentiated DNA, more so than recent common descent, of which some portion of genes that read as “Japanese” would show up in one area of Korea and another portion would show up in another region of Korea.

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  • Unlike many commenters in this space, I don't particularly lament the secular rise of "universalism" that has occurred in Northwestern European societies (and their derivatives). Indeed, as a Black man, this is especially important to me. Without universalism, slavery may never have ended in the West. Without universalism, my family may never have been able...
  • @Anonymous
    Interesting post. Some thoughts and comments/questions.
    1) Some of the people who worry about NW euros and immigration /race mixing are concerned that the 'universalist nature' of NW euro societies will lead to there disappearing. Put more abstractly if those societies are nice because of genetic virtues, anything that might change those HBD tendencies might undermine those societies. For what its worth I think this is mostly exaggerated . but not completely ridiculous, you have even re-tweeted a comment by Dr. James Thompson saying something to the effect of 'are those populations therefore to be replaced'. While I don't oppose interracial relationships ( my last GF was Chinese-and people dating interracially are likely to be non clannish members of the other group also). I do oppose and have major concerns of mass immigration and the effects it might have. Elite , controlled immigration is probably ok and useful for a country. I am interested to see what a heterogeneous elite can do

    2) In some ways China really does represent a contrary model to the progress in western societies. It seems to the only viable alternative, everything else is obviously inferior to the west in terms of its ability to deliver progress. While I think that populations might indeed vary on the traits that produce progressive values, I wonder how much. My Chinese GF was an animal rights activist, and I watch a fair bit of Anime. I know most media is produced by elites-and therefore isn't directly representative of a populations values, still this media showed progressive trends in what the elites think, and that often foreshadows where the rest of society goes. So progress in Japan, and Korean on universalist values seems likely to me. Even India I think eventually we will see. You can witness he growth in women's rights groups, and gay rights groups in these countries.

    3) The progressive left has almost Jumped the shark now. And has dialed down its universalism and commitment to values like free speech. It engages in Censorship, has distrusted groups (privileged cis-white men), and encouragement of tribalism in non white groups etc. I think that since the radical left has more influence on the elites than the radical right it represents more of a threat to progress. The objective beliefs of the radical right are on average worse (cough, except communism), but the influence of the left is more pernicious. If the left really cared about progressive values, it would see much of the whites in the American south as an underclass in need of help.
    -What do you think , is the progressive left its own worst enemy? and likely to grow in how much trouble it causes in the future. This isn't a question regarding which beliefs you disagree with more, but who you think might be a more significant obstacle to progress with regard to HBD and society getting better.

    4) I am not sure if u watched Jonathan Haidt's talk where he outlines the metaphor of the elephant and the rider. I wont explain that metaphor but basically following its guidelines. Why couldn't we use a culture or sub populations tribalism to create new Taboos. Like one brings shame on the tribe to cause animal suffering. Tribalism is not 100% content defined, there is room to shift those taboos to line up more with our own values.

    5) Lastly, humanity really needs to just hold out and make it to genetic engineering. Opposed by the religious right and for some strange reason (hbd denialism presumably) almost all the left. The near universal in the literature on human suffering is the human condition. Engineering our genome could do more than anything else in history to boost the quality of life, the reduction of suffering. etc.

    -Green eyes.

    Have you read David Pearce?

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  • Updated, 4/6/16. See below! The 2016 U.S. presidential race has brought out a serious whirlwind of events, the likes of which haven't been seen in a long time, if ever. Despite my own expectations for a boring campaign, this election cycle has been anything but. Most significant to this excitement has been the rise of...
  • […] Ricky Vaughn’s observation that among white Republicans, Trump support tends to come from non-Germanics. […]

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  • Unlike many commenters in this space, I don't particularly lament the secular rise of "universalism" that has occurred in Northwestern European societies (and their derivatives). Indeed, as a Black man, this is especially important to me. Without universalism, slavery may never have ended in the West. Without universalism, my family may never have been able...
  • […] the midst of an article on other topics, an insightful […]

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  • […] From an in-depth look at runaway universalism: […]

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  • We are familiar with Colin Woodard's map of the American nations: Especially their divisions in the United States. Now, for completeness sake, here they are for Canada (based on a map from Wikipedia): Many of the nations that make up the United States continue into Canada. In many ways, Canada is essentially the U.S. without...
  • Anonymous • Disclaimer says: • Website

    Matthew Naylor is correct. On the Canadian census, respondents can volunteer as many choices for ethnicity as they like. If one says “French Canadian,” that will be coded as both French and Canadian. If one says “Haitian Canadian,” that will be coded as both Haitian and Canadian. In Quebec, among Francophones, the single word “Canadien” is shorthand for Quebecois, or French Canadian. Obviously, for Quebec, there are far more who said Canadian/Canadien in all its forms than anything else.

    The coding of your map needs more nuance to account for this.

    I discuss this in my book Canadian Politics: Riding by Riding.

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  • Updated, 4/6/16. See below! The 2016 U.S. presidential race has brought out a serious whirlwind of events, the likes of which haven't been seen in a long time, if ever. Despite my own expectations for a boring campaign, this election cycle has been anything but. Most significant to this excitement has been the rise of...
  • […] Well, JayMan’s been blogging on this year’s election. If you only have time for one of his posts, read the one titled The Donald Trump Phenomenon: Part 1: The American Nations. […]

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  • @Anonymous
    Catholic ethnics, being more clannish compared to other Europeans are far more Nationalistic. You see this often if you know Irish or Italian families, they are far more likely to be outspoken about their ethnicity, they often display four leaf clovers and Italian flags, even when they're 3rd or 4th generation Americans.

    So in talking about relevance to Trump support, the key factor won't be a liberal-conservative spectrum but rather a tendency towards Nationalism, patriotism.

    The modern brand of "conservative", like Cruz, has attempted to stoke the nationalist vote, but it has not gotten the Catholic ethnic vote because it is a fake Nationalism which has always been more focused on unfettered globalized trade, idealistic interventionist foreign policy, and token immigration enforcement. So it makes historical voting patterns of catholic ethnics in America a bit of a non-starter as they've never really had the option to follow a Nationalism which gives them the most fervor.

    Thats my take and admittedly probably has blind spots. Besides the obvious snag (How does nationalism for co-ethnics in Italy transfer to pride in America): If nationalism appeals to catholic ethnics because of higher historical rates of cousin marriage, for instance, you may expect arabs to be the most nationalist of all. But perhaps it makes sense that they aren't, you can overshoot the mark and be too clannish. Its possible Catholic ethnics have the inbreeding "sweet spot" for the type of nationalism that Trump is selling: Patriotic ingroup, but not too inbred that you lose all sense of nation altogether. Thoughts on that, Jayman?

    Catholic ethnics, being more clannish compared to other Europeans are far more Nationalistic. You see this often if you know Irish or Italian families, they are far more likely to be outspoken about their ethnicity, they often display four leaf clovers and Italian flags, even when they’re 3rd or 4th generation Americans.

    Especially the ones in America.

    If nationalism appeals to catholic ethnics because of higher historical rates of cousin marriage, for instance, you may expect arabs to be the most nationalist of all.

    But they are:

    asabiyyah | hbd chick

    Even the clannish Whites in America don’t really care too much about their fellow Whites (even their co-ethnics) past the extent that it’s convenient. Their mostly out for their own interests.

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  • Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Marcus
    Why are you so averse to to acknowledging that Catholic "ethnics" are much more leftist on average than "old-stock" Americans, it contradicts the HBD individualism of NW Europe v collectivism dogma?

    Catholic ethnics, being more clannish compared to other Europeans are far more Nationalistic. You see this often if you know Irish or Italian families, they are far more likely to be outspoken about their ethnicity, they often display four leaf clovers and Italian flags, even when they’re 3rd or 4th generation Americans.

    So in talking about relevance to Trump support, the key factor won’t be a liberal-conservative spectrum but rather a tendency towards Nationalism, patriotism.

    The modern brand of “conservative”, like Cruz, has attempted to stoke the nationalist vote, but it has not gotten the Catholic ethnic vote because it is a fake Nationalism which has always been more focused on unfettered globalized trade, idealistic interventionist foreign policy, and token immigration enforcement. So it makes historical voting patterns of catholic ethnics in America a bit of a non-starter as they’ve never really had the option to follow a Nationalism which gives them the most fervor.

    Thats my take and admittedly probably has blind spots. Besides the obvious snag (How does nationalism for co-ethnics in Italy transfer to pride in America): If nationalism appeals to catholic ethnics because of higher historical rates of cousin marriage, for instance, you may expect arabs to be the most nationalist of all. But perhaps it makes sense that they aren’t, you can overshoot the mark and be too clannish. Its possible Catholic ethnics have the inbreeding “sweet spot” for the type of nationalism that Trump is selling: Patriotic ingroup, but not too inbred that you lose all sense of nation altogether. Thoughts on that, Jayman?

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    • Replies: @JayMan

    Catholic ethnics, being more clannish compared to other Europeans are far more Nationalistic. You see this often if you know Irish or Italian families, they are far more likely to be outspoken about their ethnicity, they often display four leaf clovers and Italian flags, even when they’re 3rd or 4th generation Americans.
     
    Especially the ones in America.

    If nationalism appeals to catholic ethnics because of higher historical rates of cousin marriage, for instance, you may expect arabs to be the most nationalist of all.
     
    But they are:

    asabiyyah | hbd chick

    Even the clannish Whites in America don't really care too much about their fellow Whites (even their co-ethnics) past the extent that it's convenient. Their mostly out for their own interests.

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  • […] The Donald Trump Phenomenon Part I: the American Nations on Jayman’s Blog. […]

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  • @Stephen R. Diamond

    But unless you have data on that one that I don’t know about, your claim isn’t actually justified.
     
    Isn't this a quixotic methodological purism? Some ordinary (nonscientific) knowledge is pretty secure, such as that some beliefs vary with culture.

    Some ordinary (nonscientific) knowledge is pretty secure, such as that some beliefs vary with culture.

    Except what we’re talking about here is this: where does culture come from?

    To answer that question, you need science.

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  • @JayMan

    That’s why Korean babies adopted by American parents don’t typically grow up to worship the Supreme Leader and believe in fan death.
     
    Has anyone ever done a trans-racial adoption study on political beliefs? I'm not sure they have. But unless you have data on that one that I don't know about, your claim isn't actually justified.

    But unless you have data on that one that I don’t know about, your claim isn’t actually justified.

    Isn’t this a quixotic methodological purism? Some ordinary (nonscientific) knowledge is pretty secure, such as that some beliefs vary with culture.

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    • Replies: @JayMan

    Some ordinary (nonscientific) knowledge is pretty secure, such as that some beliefs vary with culture.
     
    Except what we're talking about here is this: where does culture come from?

    To answer that question, you need science.

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  • Unlike many commenters in this space, I don't particularly lament the secular rise of "universalism" that has occurred in Northwestern European societies (and their derivatives). Indeed, as a Black man, this is especially important to me. Without universalism, slavery may never have ended in the West. Without universalism, my family may never have been able...
  • @Cobalt
    I have a few questions:

    Will the sphere of empathy ever extend to males?

    Your example of acid attacks as being against women when they are near equal. Boko Haram killed many, many males in horrific ways. We only heard about the relatively few women harmed.

    What happens when we NW Europeans are the minority in all counties where we were formally the majority? Will the new citizens who replace us have been successfully engineered to somehow act and think like NW Europeans?

    This is true now where I live. You can see the various mass immigrant blocks flexing their political muscles now. Real estate agents tell me they would loose a Chinese client if they were to show them a home to buy when the seller is from India originally. When school gets out I see very few euro-descended children. This is true of all countries I have looked up, Sweden, Norway, Canada, Australia etc. I just saw a Twitter post celebrating that while children were now the minority of births. Is this good for the world?

    Does the circle of empathy of NW Euros include their fellow European descended people? There are extreme double standards of behaviour for NW Euros vs other peoples.

    I know there is one theory that all this 'empathy' is status signalling for this group. What happens when this group finally figures out that perhaps, just perhaps more aggressive peoples regard them as prey to be taken advantage of? With their very weak survival threat recognition kick in or will they self immolate like that preacher I saw reported on to out of extreme white guilt?

    I'm from NW Europe and recognize the traits you describe. Maybe WEIRD should be WIIRD white, indoctrinated, etc.

    What is the country you describe and are white children there now the minority of births country wide?

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  • Updated, 4/6/16. See below! The 2016 U.S. presidential race has brought out a serious whirlwind of events, the likes of which haven't been seen in a long time, if ever. Despite my own expectations for a boring campaign, this election cycle has been anything but. Most significant to this excitement has been the rise of...
  • “we see Bernie is decidedly weak among White Democrats across the Dixie nations, and weak across much of the old Rust Belt (central Yankeedom/the Midlands).”

    There were enough primaries in “central Yankeedom/the Midlands” to be possible to know that?

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  • @JayMan
    Good question. I don't know. Well, just like not all Whites across the country are the same, not all Blacks around the country are the same, either.

    I just read an article in VOX that consulted four experts on this subject.

    One expert connected it to the higher % of blacks in the Democratic total in a state.

    One expert connected it to the generational divide, younger people voting for Sanders.

    One expert said it was because Sanders did not campaign in the South.

    One expert said they he didn’t know because there are no analyses of black voter behavior like there are for whites.

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  • @Renoman
    A very convoluted explanation, I'm sure it took weeks to construct and is doubtless very detailed and thorough. Almost no one will read it.

    Almost no one will read it.

    Well, from looking at the front page of Unz.com, I guess you were wrong.

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  • @JayMan

    I think that’s really the only point on which I’m disagreeing with you. If the cultural effects worked only at the neighborhood level or lower, then the negligible shared-environment effect from adoption studies would in fact imply no cultural effect. But I don’t think that’s the case, and I’m sure that you can’t just assume it’s the case.
     
    From national samples, though?

    Just because the samples are nationwide doesn’t mean that the adoptions are inter-regional.

    I was assuming that most adoption is local, within these “nations,” or regions. That was the qualification that I spelled out explicitly in my first comment. Is it really typical that parents adopt children born halfway across the country? The more inter-regional adoptions there are, the more powerful the test. As I said in my comment, I’d be interested in seeing an answer to the question of how many adoptions are inter-regional.

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  • @Reg Cæsar

    Why is there a noticeable and significant difference between the % of blacks voting for Bernie in the Northern States as opposed to his % in the Southern States?
     
    They've heard of him?

    They’ve heard of him?

    They (we) have as many TV’s as anyone.

    I catch your drift though and I agree. It is much better to be well educated, like you, for example.

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  • @Aaron Gross
    Right, I agree on that. But my point is that the kind of cultural effects we're talking about—Scandinavian culture, Scotch-Irish culture, etc.—will probably also be at a much wider scale, i.e., lower resolution. That is, even if there were a neighborhood in some Appalachian city that had a higher percentage of residents who were of, say, English and German ancestry, that neighborhood would still be influenced by the Scotch-Irish culture of the region.

    I think that's really the only point on which I'm disagreeing with you. If the cultural effects worked only at the neighborhood level or lower, then the negligible shared-environment effect from adoption studies would in fact imply no cultural effect. But I don't think that's the case, and I'm sure that you can't just assume it's the case.

    I think that’s really the only point on which I’m disagreeing with you. If the cultural effects worked only at the neighborhood level or lower, then the negligible shared-environment effect from adoption studies would in fact imply no cultural effect. But I don’t think that’s the case, and I’m sure that you can’t just assume it’s the case.

    From national samples, though?

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    • Replies: @Aaron Gross
    Just because the samples are nationwide doesn't mean that the adoptions are inter-regional.

    I was assuming that most adoption is local, within these "nations," or regions. That was the qualification that I spelled out explicitly in my first comment. Is it really typical that parents adopt children born halfway across the country? The more inter-regional adoptions there are, the more powerful the test. As I said in my comment, I'd be interested in seeing an answer to the question of how many adoptions are inter-regional.
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  • @Stephen R. Diamond

    That’s why Korean babies adopted by American parents don’t typically grow up to worship the Supreme Leader...
     
    Why do you conclude this is due to the influence of the American parents rather of American culture? (Our MSM has a rather different political line than that of the N. Koreans.)

    That’s why Korean babies adopted by American parents don’t typically grow up to worship the Supreme Leader…

    Why do you conclude this is due to the influence of the American parents rather of American culture? (Our MSM has a rather different political line than that of the N. Koreans.)

    Or that this even happens at all?

    Most Korean adoptees in the West are South Korean, by the way. In either case, I don’t think there is any adoption data on the matter (I’ll look). There is certainly is no data on the political beliefs of North Koreans…

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  • @AndrewR
    I did. I don't dispute that genes are important but obviously environment plays a role. That's why Korean babies adopted by American parents don't typically grow up to worship the Supreme Leader and believe in fan death.

    That’s why Korean babies adopted by American parents don’t typically grow up to worship the Supreme Leader and believe in fan death.

    Has anyone ever done a trans-racial adoption study on political beliefs? I’m not sure they have. But unless you have data on that one that I don’t know about, your claim isn’t actually justified.

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    • Replies: @Stephen R. Diamond

    But unless you have data on that one that I don’t know about, your claim isn’t actually justified.
     
    Isn't this a quixotic methodological purism? Some ordinary (nonscientific) knowledge is pretty secure, such as that some beliefs vary with culture.
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  • @Aaron Gross
    No, the fact of a negligible shared-environment effect does not answer the question (with one qualification, see below). The question was, whether culture and genes can be disentangled as explanations of between-regional variation, where the regions are the "nations" given here, or any other partition where genetics and culture are coextensive.

    Obviously, a negligible shared-environment effect within regions does not, in itself, say anything about the environmental effect between regions. I'll bet even you won't try to deny that! You can't tell about environmental effects between, say, the "Left Coast" and "Greater Appalachia" from looking at behavioral genetics studies conducted within those two "nations."

    And note that it's not enough to include inter-ethnic adoption within the nations. The culture effect that you'd want to test for is "nationwide" or at least wider than the family: The idea is that if Appalachia is affected by Scotch-Irish culture, then that Scotch-Irish culture will affect non-Scotch-Irish people in Appalachia as well.

    So the qualification is that if you did have a study with a significant amount of adoption across these "nations"—e.g., California parents adopting Tennessee children and vice versa—then you could draw the conclusion that you claimed. The more cross-regional adoption, the more powerful the study. It would be really interesting to see a study like that. It wasn't clear (correct me if I'm wrong), but I don't think the data in the table are from such a cross-regional study.

    Some of my German ancestors started in PA, went to NC and then to SC. They were “swamped” and obliterated by the Scotch-Irish culture in SC. Some of their brothers and sisters who stayed in PA went on to become Pennsylvania Dutch.

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  • @JayMan

    Also – blacks in Michigan are probably more likely to be part white
     
    Yup.

    Maybe photos of those who participated in exit polling would be informative. (I know that skin tone is only a rough indicator.)

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  • @JayMan

    Also – blacks in Michigan are probably more likely to be part white
     
    Yup.

    I knew that was going to come up.

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  • @JayMan

    Obviously, a negligible shared-environment effect within regions does not, in itself, say anything about the environmental effect between regions. I’ll bet even you won’t try to deny that! You can’t tell about environmental effects between, say, the “Left Coast” and “Greater Appalachia” from looking at behavioral genetics studies conducted within those two “nations.”
     
    Aaron, yes, but a zero shared environment emerges from national samples as well. If subs growing up in the same area were more the same because of local environment it'd turn up in the shared environment. It doesn't.

    All attempts to find neighborhood effects turn up nothing, for all manner of traits. See the work of Amir Sariaslan.

    Then there is the negligible rGE effect found in this study...

    Right, I agree on that. But my point is that the kind of cultural effects we’re talking about—Scandinavian culture, Scotch-Irish culture, etc.—will probably also be at a much wider scale, i.e., lower resolution. That is, even if there were a neighborhood in some Appalachian city that had a higher percentage of residents who were of, say, English and German ancestry, that neighborhood would still be influenced by the Scotch-Irish culture of the region.

    I think that’s really the only point on which I’m disagreeing with you. If the cultural effects worked only at the neighborhood level or lower, then the negligible shared-environment effect from adoption studies would in fact imply no cultural effect. But I don’t think that’s the case, and I’m sure that you can’t just assume it’s the case.

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    • Replies: @JayMan

    I think that’s really the only point on which I’m disagreeing with you. If the cultural effects worked only at the neighborhood level or lower, then the negligible shared-environment effect from adoption studies would in fact imply no cultural effect. But I don’t think that’s the case, and I’m sure that you can’t just assume it’s the case.
     
    From national samples, though?
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  • @iffen
    Why is there a noticeable and significant difference between the % of blacks voting for Bernie in the Northern States as opposed to his % in the Southern States?

    Why is there a noticeable and significant difference between the % of blacks voting for Bernie in the Northern States as opposed to his % in the Southern States?

    They’ve heard of him?

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    • Replies: @iffen
    They’ve heard of him?

    They (we) have as many TV's as anyone.

    I catch your drift though and I agree. It is much better to be well educated, like you, for example.
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  • Our MSM has a rather different political line than that of the N. Koreans.

    They do?

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  • @AndrewR
    I did. I don't dispute that genes are important but obviously environment plays a role. That's why Korean babies adopted by American parents don't typically grow up to worship the Supreme Leader and believe in fan death.

    That’s why Korean babies adopted by American parents don’t typically grow up to worship the Supreme Leader…

    Why do you conclude this is due to the influence of the American parents rather of American culture? (Our MSM has a rather different political line than that of the N. Koreans.)

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    • Replies: @JayMan


    That’s why Korean babies adopted by American parents don’t typically grow up to worship the Supreme Leader…
     
    Why do you conclude this is due to the influence of the American parents rather of American culture? (Our MSM has a rather different political line than that of the N. Koreans.)
     
    Or that this even happens at all?

    Most Korean adoptees in the West are South Korean, by the way. In either case, I don't think there is any adoption data on the matter (I'll look). There is certainly is no data on the political beliefs of North Koreans...

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  • @JayMan


    The way people vote is a reflection of who and indeed what they are. It has nothing to do with how they were raised by their parents, where they grew up, or where they live now (except to the extent current self-interest is involved).

     

    You make the most sweeping, outrageous and unnuanced generalizations. I have no clue why Unz lets you blog here or why anyone reads you. Your blog is a monument to arrogant ignorance, and a disgrace to this website.
     
    But justified by the evidence. Did you see the chart at the start of the post?

    I did. I don’t dispute that genes are important but obviously environment plays a role. That’s why Korean babies adopted by American parents don’t typically grow up to worship the Supreme Leader and believe in fan death.

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    • Replies: @Stephen R. Diamond

    That’s why Korean babies adopted by American parents don’t typically grow up to worship the Supreme Leader...
     
    Why do you conclude this is due to the influence of the American parents rather of American culture? (Our MSM has a rather different political line than that of the N. Koreans.)
    , @JayMan

    That’s why Korean babies adopted by American parents don’t typically grow up to worship the Supreme Leader and believe in fan death.
     
    Has anyone ever done a trans-racial adoption study on political beliefs? I'm not sure they have. But unless you have data on that one that I don't know about, your claim isn't actually justified.
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  • @AndrewR

    The way people vote is a reflection of who and indeed what they are. It has nothing to do with how they were raised by their parents, where they grew up, or where they live now (except to the extent current self-interest is involved).
     
    You make the most sweeping, outrageous and unnuanced generalizations. I have no clue why Unz lets you blog here or why anyone reads you. Your blog is a monument to arrogant ignorance, and a disgrace to this website.

    The way people vote is a reflection of who and indeed what they are. It has nothing to do with how they were raised by their parents, where they grew up, or where they live now (except to the extent current self-interest is involved).

    You make the most sweeping, outrageous and unnuanced generalizations. I have no clue why Unz lets you blog here or why anyone reads you. Your blog is a monument to arrogant ignorance, and a disgrace to this website.

    But justified by the evidence. Did you see the chart at the start of the post?

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    • Replies: @AndrewR
    I did. I don't dispute that genes are important but obviously environment plays a role. That's why Korean babies adopted by American parents don't typically grow up to worship the Supreme Leader and believe in fan death.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • The way people vote is a reflection of who and indeed what they are. It has nothing to do with how they were raised by their parents, where they grew up, or where they live now (except to the extent current self-interest is involved).

    You make the most sweeping, outrageous and unnuanced generalizations. I have no clue why Unz lets you blog here or why anyone reads you. Your blog is a monument to arrogant ignorance, and a disgrace to this website.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JayMan


    The way people vote is a reflection of who and indeed what they are. It has nothing to do with how they were raised by their parents, where they grew up, or where they live now (except to the extent current self-interest is involved).

     

    You make the most sweeping, outrageous and unnuanced generalizations. I have no clue why Unz lets you blog here or why anyone reads you. Your blog is a monument to arrogant ignorance, and a disgrace to this website.
     
    But justified by the evidence. Did you see the chart at the start of the post?
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  • @Winthorp
    Also - blacks in Michigan are probably more likely to be part white

    Also – blacks in Michigan are probably more likely to be part white

    Yup.

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    • Replies: @iffen
    I knew that was going to come up.
    , @iffen
    Maybe photos of those who participated in exit polling would be informative. (I know that skin tone is only a rough indicator.)
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  • @Winthorp
    Yeah, I can see bloc voting feeling more imperative in the South. Whereas in Northern industrial cities there is more than one set of moral-political institutions and struggle. Given this, you wouldn't necessarily need human capital differences to account for an extra 20% vote for Sanders - though I wouldn't rule it out either. I could see WEIRDO labor institutions and political education resonating with the subset of more WEIRDO inclined skilled black laborers, which in turn may have made up a higher percentage of certain industrial centers than down South.

    Also – blacks in Michigan are probably more likely to be part white

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    • Replies: @JayMan

    Also – blacks in Michigan are probably more likely to be part white
     
    Yup.
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  • @iffen
    That could well explain a lot.

    Without checking for the actual differences, I assume that higher educational attainment would explain a portion.

    Also I think it is because there are many more cities and counties in the South where bloc voting has traditionally been considered beneficial for blacks.

    Yeah, I can see bloc voting feeling more imperative in the South. Whereas in Northern industrial cities there is more than one set of moral-political institutions and struggle. Given this, you wouldn’t necessarily need human capital differences to account for an extra 20% vote for Sanders – though I wouldn’t rule it out either. I could see WEIRDO labor institutions and political education resonating with the subset of more WEIRDO inclined skilled black laborers, which in turn may have made up a higher percentage of certain industrial centers than down South.

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    • Replies: @Winthorp
    Also - blacks in Michigan are probably more likely to be part white
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  • @Winthorp
    A history of old-school labor unionism make a difference.

    That could well explain a lot.

    Without checking for the actual differences, I assume that higher educational attainment would explain a portion.

    Also I think it is because there are many more cities and counties in the South where bloc voting has traditionally been considered beneficial for blacks.

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    • Replies: @Winthorp
    Yeah, I can see bloc voting feeling more imperative in the South. Whereas in Northern industrial cities there is more than one set of moral-political institutions and struggle. Given this, you wouldn't necessarily need human capital differences to account for an extra 20% vote for Sanders - though I wouldn't rule it out either. I could see WEIRDO labor institutions and political education resonating with the subset of more WEIRDO inclined skilled black laborers, which in turn may have made up a higher percentage of certain industrial centers than down South.
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  • @boogerbently
    You just described Hitlery.

    hilary is waaaaaay worst than donald. reason is that she isn’t fresh anymore. everything she does has been done by her countless times before. donald is new, hence his words still carry some weight. I am not holding my breath as this is just repeat of obama’s “change”

    donald vs hilary = fresh liar(a huge maybe) vs known liar.

    donald is being a better politician than all other politicians right now. I just hope he is different, instead of another fake.

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  • @iffen
    Why is there a noticeable and significant difference between the % of blacks voting for Bernie in the Northern States as opposed to his % in the Southern States?

    A history of old-school labor unionism make a difference.

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    • Replies: @iffen
    That could well explain a lot.

    Without checking for the actual differences, I assume that higher educational attainment would explain a portion.

    Also I think it is because there are many more cities and counties in the South where bloc voting has traditionally been considered beneficial for blacks.
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  • @Reg Cæsar

    As I had mentioned, Toronto prior to the mid 20th century was so Protestant and so dominated by the Orange Order that to was referred to as the Belfast of Canada:
     
    Torontonians used to escape to Buffalo for some fun. That tells you something right there.

    Very true. Dour Victorian-era Protestants (and their heirs) aren’t as much fun as Catholics.

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  • @Lion of the Judah-sphere
    Trump's rallies are also becoming increasingly violent

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/03/12/trump-cancels-chicago-rally-says-didnt-want-to-see-anyone-hurt.html

    Trump rallies are becoming increasing more violent because of stepped up opposition by left wing radicals (Move On, Black Lives Matter, and allies) who shout, throw things at Trump supporters, break the windows of cars with Trump bumper stickers, and try to cause as much trouble as possible. Then left wing media can show videos of those “violent” Trump rallies.

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  • @AP
    Found a snippet here:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper_Canada#Ethnic_Groups

    The Great Migration from Britain from 1815-1850 has been numbered at 800,000. The population of Upper Canada in 1837 is documented at 409,000. Given the lack of detailed census data it is difficult to assess the relative size of the American & Canadian born "British" and the foreign born "British." By the time of the first census in 1841, only

    half of the population of Upper Canada were foreign born British
     
    I don't know why wiki states "only". Estimated 50% of the population in Ontario being born in Britain is rather substantial.

    As I had mentioned, Toronto prior to the mid 20th century was so Protestant and so dominated by the Orange Order that to was referred to as the Belfast of Canada:

    https://www.timeshighereducation.com/books/review-toronto-the-belfast-of-canada-william-j-smyth

    As I had mentioned, Toronto prior to the mid 20th century was so Protestant and so dominated by the Orange Order that to was referred to as the Belfast of Canada:

    Torontonians used to escape to Buffalo for some fun. That tells you something right there.

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    • Replies: @AP
    Very true. Dour Victorian-era Protestants (and their heirs) aren't as much fun as Catholics.
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  • Just watched CNN where they gave us the European perspective. It was given by an Indian female ( who else) who happens be a lecturer in a London University. What a surprise: it turns out that Europeans prefer Clinton to Trump by a large extent.

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  • @Connecticut Famer
    I read Woodard's book and as I recall many of the Yankee Loyalists spilled over into the Maritimes after the Revolution (as well as into Ontario). Indeed, the people who originally settled the Maritimes (Newfoundland, which is heavily Scots-Irish possible excepted) came from the same area of England (East Anglia) as the so-called "Pilgrims."

    Indeed, the people who originally settled the Maritimes (Newfoundland, which is heavily Scots-Irish possible excepted) came from the same area of England (East Anglia)

    Yup, pretty much. Though Newfoundland was settled originally from people from Southwest England. It received heavy Catholic Irish immigration.

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  • @woodNfish
    That is the protestors who are violent, koolaid drinker. Why don't you ask the LSM why Rahm didn't provide the proper police protection instead of repeating LSM lies?

    They watch 3 different Lib media outlets, and think they know the news.

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  • @Astuteobservor II
    I actually find trump super easy to understand. he is the master of pandering. he can and will tell you what you want to hear, 100 out of 100 conversations. it is the follow through I am worry about. will he be flat like all politicians? or will he actually be different.

    You just described Hitlery.

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    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
    hilary is waaaaaay worst than donald. reason is that she isn't fresh anymore. everything she does has been done by her countless times before. donald is new, hence his words still carry some weight. I am not holding my breath as this is just repeat of obama's "change"

    donald vs hilary = fresh liar(a huge maybe) vs known liar.

    donald is being a better politician than all other politicians right now. I just hope he is different, instead of another fake.
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  • @Lion of the Judah-sphere
    Trump's rallies are also becoming increasingly violent

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/03/12/trump-cancels-chicago-rally-says-didnt-want-to-see-anyone-hurt.html

    Rallies are “love fests”.
    “Protesters” cause violence.

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  • @fnn
    Why so much anti-Semitism in Minneapolis-and for such a long time?:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Minneapolis#Politics.2C_corruption.2C_anti-Semitism_and_social_change

    Minneapolis was known for anti-Semitism beginning in the 1880s and through the 1950s.[29] The city was described as "the capital of anti-Semitism in the United States" in 1946 by Carey McWilliams[30] and in 1959 by Gunther Plaut.[31] At that time the city's Jews were excluded from membership in many organizations, faced employment discrimination, and were considered unwelcome residents in some neighborhoods.[32] Jews in Minneapolis were also not allowed to buy homes in certain neighborhoods of Minneapolis.[33] In the 1940s a lack of anti-Semitism was noted in the Midwest with the exception of Minneapolis. McWilliams noted in 1946 the lack of anti-Semitism in neighboring Saint Paul.[34]
     

    Why?

    Because Jews are disgusting liars, very simple. “Antisemitism” is a righteous, reasonable response to Jews’ creepy behavior.

    Bernie Sanders is a perfect example of the loud mouthed, but dumb Jew.
    All talk.

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    • Agree: RaceRealist88
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  • @Reg Cæsar

    Trump is a Sicilianized German-Scot.

     

    My mom's family was German-Scot, from Queens, and could hold their own with any Sicilian. Unlike the Drumpfs, though, they were Catholic, and laid the bricks rather than owned them.

    Ethel Merman was also a German-Scot mix. If you count German Jews, then so was Oscar Hammerstein II.

    You could blame (downstate) New York's pushiness on the Irish. Or the Dutch. Or even the Germans. I think they're all guilty!

    New York was always “pushy”–dating all the way back to when it was still Nieuw Amsterdam. And it was polyglot too. It was already a thriving economic center consisting of people whose prime objective was getting, spending, and getting some more.

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  • @JayMan

    Just a quibble: The maritime provinces of Canada are quite different from yankeedom
     
    Not really. I've been there. The only real difference is that the people are even more friendly.

    I read Woodard’s book and as I recall many of the Yankee Loyalists spilled over into the Maritimes after the Revolution (as well as into Ontario). Indeed, the people who originally settled the Maritimes (Newfoundland, which is heavily Scots-Irish possible excepted) came from the same area of England (East Anglia) as the so-called “Pilgrims.”

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    • Replies: @JayMan

    Indeed, the people who originally settled the Maritimes (Newfoundland, which is heavily Scots-Irish possible excepted) came from the same area of England (East Anglia)
     
    Yup, pretty much. Though Newfoundland was settled originally from people from Southwest England. It received heavy Catholic Irish immigration.
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  • @Aaron Gross
    No, the fact of a negligible shared-environment effect does not answer the question (with one qualification, see below). The question was, whether culture and genes can be disentangled as explanations of between-regional variation, where the regions are the "nations" given here, or any other partition where genetics and culture are coextensive.

    Obviously, a negligible shared-environment effect within regions does not, in itself, say anything about the environmental effect between regions. I'll bet even you won't try to deny that! You can't tell about environmental effects between, say, the "Left Coast" and "Greater Appalachia" from looking at behavioral genetics studies conducted within those two "nations."

    And note that it's not enough to include inter-ethnic adoption within the nations. The culture effect that you'd want to test for is "nationwide" or at least wider than the family: The idea is that if Appalachia is affected by Scotch-Irish culture, then that Scotch-Irish culture will affect non-Scotch-Irish people in Appalachia as well.

    So the qualification is that if you did have a study with a significant amount of adoption across these "nations"—e.g., California parents adopting Tennessee children and vice versa—then you could draw the conclusion that you claimed. The more cross-regional adoption, the more powerful the study. It would be really interesting to see a study like that. It wasn't clear (correct me if I'm wrong), but I don't think the data in the table are from such a cross-regional study.

    Obviously, a negligible shared-environment effect within regions does not, in itself, say anything about the environmental effect between regions. I’ll bet even you won’t try to deny that! You can’t tell about environmental effects between, say, the “Left Coast” and “Greater Appalachia” from looking at behavioral genetics studies conducted within those two “nations.”

    Aaron, yes, but a zero shared environment emerges from national samples as well. If subs growing up in the same area were more the same because of local environment it’d turn up in the shared environment. It doesn’t.

    All attempts to find neighborhood effects turn up nothing, for all manner of traits. See the work of Amir Sariaslan.

    Then there is the negligible rGE effect found in this study…

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    • Replies: @Aaron Gross
    Right, I agree on that. But my point is that the kind of cultural effects we're talking about—Scandinavian culture, Scotch-Irish culture, etc.—will probably also be at a much wider scale, i.e., lower resolution. That is, even if there were a neighborhood in some Appalachian city that had a higher percentage of residents who were of, say, English and German ancestry, that neighborhood would still be influenced by the Scotch-Irish culture of the region.

    I think that's really the only point on which I'm disagreeing with you. If the cultural effects worked only at the neighborhood level or lower, then the negligible shared-environment effect from adoption studies would in fact imply no cultural effect. But I don't think that's the case, and I'm sure that you can't just assume it's the case.
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  • @JayMan

    What’s the evidence that “genetic diversity (even among whites)” is relevant at the inter-ethnic level? Yes, I know that political persuasion is heritable, but that doesn’t answer the question.
     
    Actually it does. Look closely at the table, which was provided specifically for this reason. This is from a very large twin and family sample (N > 20,000). Shared environment and "gene-environment correlation" effects are non-existent. This means that local environment effects have no impact on political persuasion. There are many other behavioral genetic studies, including the large studies from the Add Health sample (which is a nationally representative sample) or the population-based studies out of Scandinavia that find no visible impact of local environment.

    How do you know that the political difference between, say, Germans and Scotch-Irish is significantly influenced by genetics? How do you disentangle genetic and cultural causes when genetic and cultural groupings are roughly coextensive? (I haven’t read the linked articles.)
     
    It's generally a good idea to read the linked articles first before asking such question. But in any case, in addition to the above, there are the clear geographic (and persistent) patterns between ancestry and politics. When people move, they generally take their politics and culture with them, unless they were significantly sorted for those attributes. I recommend reading the links for additional detail.

    No, the fact of a negligible shared-environment effect does not answer the question (with one qualification, see below). The question was, whether culture and genes can be disentangled as explanations of between-regional variation, where the regions are the “nations” given here, or any other partition where genetics and culture are coextensive.

    Obviously, a negligible shared-environment effect within regions does not, in itself, say anything about the environmental effect between regions. I’ll bet even you won’t try to deny that! You can’t tell about environmental effects between, say, the “Left Coast” and “Greater Appalachia” from looking at behavioral genetics studies conducted within those two “nations.”

    And note that it’s not enough to include inter-ethnic adoption within the nations. The culture effect that you’d want to test for is “nationwide” or at least wider than the family: The idea is that if Appalachia is affected by Scotch-Irish culture, then that Scotch-Irish culture will affect non-Scotch-Irish people in Appalachia as well.

    So the qualification is that if you did have a study with a significant amount of adoption across these “nations”—e.g., California parents adopting Tennessee children and vice versa—then you could draw the conclusion that you claimed. The more cross-regional adoption, the more powerful the study. It would be really interesting to see a study like that. It wasn’t clear (correct me if I’m wrong), but I don’t think the data in the table are from such a cross-regional study.

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    • Replies: @JayMan

    Obviously, a negligible shared-environment effect within regions does not, in itself, say anything about the environmental effect between regions. I’ll bet even you won’t try to deny that! You can’t tell about environmental effects between, say, the “Left Coast” and “Greater Appalachia” from looking at behavioral genetics studies conducted within those two “nations.”
     
    Aaron, yes, but a zero shared environment emerges from national samples as well. If subs growing up in the same area were more the same because of local environment it'd turn up in the shared environment. It doesn't.

    All attempts to find neighborhood effects turn up nothing, for all manner of traits. See the work of Amir Sariaslan.

    Then there is the negligible rGE effect found in this study...
    , @iffen
    Some of my German ancestors started in PA, went to NC and then to SC. They were "swamped" and obliterated by the Scotch-Irish culture in SC. Some of their brothers and sisters who stayed in PA went on to become Pennsylvania Dutch.
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  • Great job Jayman! Only a tad discursive, and more self-editing (less is more) would help for a blog post.

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  • @AP

    As I noted above, the settlers to Ontario came from the Philadelphia area
     
    This was true of Kingston. Other areas were not. St. Catherine's was settled by Loyalists mostly from upstate New York. At any rate, the small numbers of Loyalist settlers in Ontario (estimated at about 6,000) were swamped by later waves of British settlement. The names of the towns (i.e., London with the Thames river, Stratford with its Shakespeare festival, Scottish Guelph), formal gardens, etc. are very British, and not at all Iowan. Prior to massive immigration in the mid 20th century, Toronto was basically 90% British and 10% Jewish and was controlled by the Orange Order. Ontario is still more British than even New England.

    Demographically, Ontario's main ethnic groups are:

    English, 24.7%; Scottish, 17.5%; Irish, 16.5%; French, 11.2%; German 9.5%.

    In Ohio it is: German, 26.5%, Irish 14.1%; African-American 12.2%; English 9%; Italian 6.4%.

    In Massachusetts it is 22.5% Irish, 13.5% Italian, 11.4% English, 8% French.

    In 1984, my Northern Ontario elementary school classroom sported a large poster titled something like, “Ontario: 200 Years of History” (repeated in French of course.) When I asked what 1984 was the anniversary of that marked the start of Ontario history, I was told 1784 was the year the loyalists arrived in large numbers. I guess that wasn’t true, since 6000 isn’t many relative to 400,000, unless they’re Syrians or something.

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  • @AndrewR
    Unsurprising since Trump has a very typical pompous and crude NYC personality, and said personality is in large part due to the hundreds of thousands of pompous, crude siciliani that America inexplicably chose to allow to immigrate.

    Trump is a Sicilianized German-Scot.

    Trump is a Sicilianized German-Scot.

    My mom’s family was German-Scot, from Queens, and could hold their own with any Sicilian. Unlike the Drumpfs, though, they were Catholic, and laid the bricks rather than owned them.

    Ethel Merman was also a German-Scot mix. If you count German Jews, then so was Oscar Hammerstein II.

    You could blame (downstate) New York’s pushiness on the Irish. Or the Dutch. Or even the Germans. I think they’re all guilty!

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    • Replies: @Connecticut Famer
    New York was always "pushy"--dating all the way back to when it was still Nieuw Amsterdam. And it was polyglot too. It was already a thriving economic center consisting of people whose prime objective was getting, spending, and getting some more.
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  • @fnn
    Why so much anti-Semitism in Minneapolis-and for such a long time?:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Minneapolis#Politics.2C_corruption.2C_anti-Semitism_and_social_change

    Minneapolis was known for anti-Semitism beginning in the 1880s and through the 1950s.[29] The city was described as "the capital of anti-Semitism in the United States" in 1946 by Carey McWilliams[30] and in 1959 by Gunther Plaut.[31] At that time the city's Jews were excluded from membership in many organizations, faced employment discrimination, and were considered unwelcome residents in some neighborhoods.[32] Jews in Minneapolis were also not allowed to buy homes in certain neighborhoods of Minneapolis.[33] In the 1940s a lack of anti-Semitism was noted in the Midwest with the exception of Minneapolis. McWilliams noted in 1946 the lack of anti-Semitism in neighboring Saint Paul.[34]
     

    Why so much anti-Semitism in Minneapolis-and for such a long time?

    Luther.

    Irish (and German) St Paul was more welcoming.

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  • Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Lol @ “Sicilianized”. It’s as if you haven’t read a single thing on this blog. His ancestry is perfectly capable of explaining Trump (and it isn’t as if peoples don’t massively vary within themselves either). Interestingly, his mom is from the Hebrides, a particularly Scandinavian-influenced area of Scotland.

    Anyway, what I can see based on this post is that it’s primarily the white Sanders demographic that has been responsible for actually Making America Great™ which is unsurprising, whether one agrees with their general ideology (I usually don’t).

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  • @RaceRealist88
    I live in the north east in a large Italian area. Can confirm Italians support Trump a lot. Being half Italian myself, I see tons of my family members who support him.

    Have you read the paper talking about race and political views? It came out in 2012 if I remember correctly. I will link it tomorrow.

    Also keep in mind, like 93 percent of blacks voted for Obama in 08.

    Unsurprising since Trump has a very typical pompous and crude NYC personality, and said personality is in large part due to the hundreds of thousands of pompous, crude siciliani that America inexplicably chose to allow to immigrate.

    Trump is a Sicilianized German-Scot.

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    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Trump is a Sicilianized German-Scot.

     

    My mom's family was German-Scot, from Queens, and could hold their own with any Sicilian. Unlike the Drumpfs, though, they were Catholic, and laid the bricks rather than owned them.

    Ethel Merman was also a German-Scot mix. If you count German Jews, then so was Oscar Hammerstein II.

    You could blame (downstate) New York's pushiness on the Irish. Or the Dutch. Or even the Germans. I think they're all guilty!

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  • @Lion of the Judah-sphere
    Trump's rallies are also becoming increasingly violent

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/03/12/trump-cancels-chicago-rally-says-didnt-want-to-see-anyone-hurt.html

    That is the protestors who are violent, koolaid drinker. Why don’t you ask the LSM why Rahm didn’t provide the proper police protection instead of repeating LSM lies?

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    • Replies: @boogerbently
    They watch 3 different Lib media outlets, and think they know the news.
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  • @fnn
    Why so much anti-Semitism in Minneapolis-and for such a long time?:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Minneapolis#Politics.2C_corruption.2C_anti-Semitism_and_social_change

    Minneapolis was known for anti-Semitism beginning in the 1880s and through the 1950s.[29] The city was described as "the capital of anti-Semitism in the United States" in 1946 by Carey McWilliams[30] and in 1959 by Gunther Plaut.[31] At that time the city's Jews were excluded from membership in many organizations, faced employment discrimination, and were considered unwelcome residents in some neighborhoods.[32] Jews in Minneapolis were also not allowed to buy homes in certain neighborhoods of Minneapolis.[33] In the 1940s a lack of anti-Semitism was noted in the Midwest with the exception of Minneapolis. McWilliams noted in 1946 the lack of anti-Semitism in neighboring Saint Paul.[34]
     

    Guess they knew something?

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  • @Renoman
    A very convoluted explanation, I'm sure it took weeks to construct and is doubtless very detailed and thorough. Almost no one will read it.

    True. I had time for about a third, then moved on.

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  • Mar 20, 2015 The Cycle of The State (by Daniel Sanchez)

    Daniel Sanchez combines the theories of Robert Higgs and Hans-Hermann Hoppe to form a theory of the cycle of the state.

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  • @Aaron Gross
    What's the evidence that "genetic diversity (even among whites)" is relevant at the inter-ethnic level? Yes, I know that political persuasion is heritable, but that doesn't answer the question.

    How do you know that the political difference between, say, Germans and Scotch-Irish is significantly influenced by genetics? How do you disentangle genetic and cultural causes when genetic and cultural groupings are roughly coextensive? (I haven't read the linked articles.)

    N.B. I come from Friendly and Conventional-stan, so I'm asking this question in good faith.

    What’s the evidence that “genetic diversity (even among whites)” is relevant at the inter-ethnic level? Yes, I know that political persuasion is heritable, but that doesn’t answer the question.

    Actually it does. Look closely at the table, which was provided specifically for this reason. This is from a very large twin and family sample (N > 20,000). Shared environment and “gene-environment correlation” effects are non-existent. This means that local environment effects have no impact on political persuasion. There are many other behavioral genetic studies, including the large studies from the Add Health sample (which is a nationally representative sample) or the population-based studies out of Scandinavia that find no visible impact of local environment.

    How do you know that the political difference between, say, Germans and Scotch-Irish is significantly influenced by genetics? How do you disentangle genetic and cultural causes when genetic and cultural groupings are roughly coextensive? (I haven’t read the linked articles.)

    It’s generally a good idea to read the linked articles first before asking such question. But in any case, in addition to the above, there are the clear geographic (and persistent) patterns between ancestry and politics. When people move, they generally take their politics and culture with them, unless they were significantly sorted for those attributes. I recommend reading the links for additional detail.

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    • Replies: @Aaron Gross
    No, the fact of a negligible shared-environment effect does not answer the question (with one qualification, see below). The question was, whether culture and genes can be disentangled as explanations of between-regional variation, where the regions are the "nations" given here, or any other partition where genetics and culture are coextensive.

    Obviously, a negligible shared-environment effect within regions does not, in itself, say anything about the environmental effect between regions. I'll bet even you won't try to deny that! You can't tell about environmental effects between, say, the "Left Coast" and "Greater Appalachia" from looking at behavioral genetics studies conducted within those two "nations."

    And note that it's not enough to include inter-ethnic adoption within the nations. The culture effect that you'd want to test for is "nationwide" or at least wider than the family: The idea is that if Appalachia is affected by Scotch-Irish culture, then that Scotch-Irish culture will affect non-Scotch-Irish people in Appalachia as well.

    So the qualification is that if you did have a study with a significant amount of adoption across these "nations"—e.g., California parents adopting Tennessee children and vice versa—then you could draw the conclusion that you claimed. The more cross-regional adoption, the more powerful the study. It would be really interesting to see a study like that. It wasn't clear (correct me if I'm wrong), but I don't think the data in the table are from such a cross-regional study.
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  • Why so much anti-Semitism in Minneapolis-and for such a long time?:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Minneapolis#Politics.2C_corruption.2C_anti-Semitism_and_social_change

    Minneapolis was known for anti-Semitism beginning in the 1880s and through the 1950s.[29] The city was described as “the capital of anti-Semitism in the United States” in 1946 by Carey McWilliams[30] and in 1959 by Gunther Plaut.[31] At that time the city’s Jews were excluded from membership in many organizations, faced employment discrimination, and were considered unwelcome residents in some neighborhoods.[32] Jews in Minneapolis were also not allowed to buy homes in certain neighborhoods of Minneapolis.[33] In the 1940s a lack of anti-Semitism was noted in the Midwest with the exception of Minneapolis. McWilliams noted in 1946 the lack of anti-Semitism in neighboring Saint Paul.[34]

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    • Replies: @Father O'Hara
    Guess they knew something?
    , @Reg Cæsar

    Why so much anti-Semitism in Minneapolis-and for such a long time?
     
    Luther.

    Irish (and German) St Paul was more welcoming.
    , @Wally
    Why?

    Because Jews are disgusting liars, very simple. "Antisemitism" is a righteous, reasonable response to Jews' creepy behavior.

    Bernie Sanders is a perfect example of the loud mouthed, but dumb Jew.
    All talk.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • I actually find trump super easy to understand. he is the master of pandering. he can and will tell you what you want to hear, 100 out of 100 conversations. it is the follow through I am worry about. will he be flat like all politicians? or will he actually be different.

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    • Replies: @boogerbently
    You just described Hitlery.
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  • What’s the evidence that “genetic diversity (even among whites)” is relevant at the inter-ethnic level? Yes, I know that political persuasion is heritable, but that doesn’t answer the question.

    How do you know that the political difference between, say, Germans and Scotch-Irish is significantly influenced by genetics? How do you disentangle genetic and cultural causes when genetic and cultural groupings are roughly coextensive? (I haven’t read the linked articles.)

    N.B. I come from Friendly and Conventional-stan, so I’m asking this question in good faith.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JayMan

    What’s the evidence that “genetic diversity (even among whites)” is relevant at the inter-ethnic level? Yes, I know that political persuasion is heritable, but that doesn’t answer the question.
     
    Actually it does. Look closely at the table, which was provided specifically for this reason. This is from a very large twin and family sample (N > 20,000). Shared environment and "gene-environment correlation" effects are non-existent. This means that local environment effects have no impact on political persuasion. There are many other behavioral genetic studies, including the large studies from the Add Health sample (which is a nationally representative sample) or the population-based studies out of Scandinavia that find no visible impact of local environment.

    How do you know that the political difference between, say, Germans and Scotch-Irish is significantly influenced by genetics? How do you disentangle genetic and cultural causes when genetic and cultural groupings are roughly coextensive? (I haven’t read the linked articles.)
     
    It's generally a good idea to read the linked articles first before asking such question. But in any case, in addition to the above, there are the clear geographic (and persistent) patterns between ancestry and politics. When people move, they generally take their politics and culture with them, unless they were significantly sorted for those attributes. I recommend reading the links for additional detail.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Gender war, nothing more.

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  • I have an Italian friend who lives in St Louis. He has been a lifelong Democrat but now supports Trump with a tremendous passion. He’s just one person but an example of how Trump appeals to Italians.

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  • @yaqub the mad scientist
    The Delta (defined by most as the alluvial plain between Memphis and Vickburg) has a lot of quirks. Black majority; whites mostly from Episcopal/Presbyterian, rather than Baptist/Pentacostal religious traditions; it also has that odd mix (Blacks, Anglos,Jews, Chinese, Lebanese, Greeks, Italians) that formed in the 19th century that I associate with certain parts of the Caribbean; party boy genteel; people there have never been hung up about alcohol, even during Prohibition.

    The Delta

    The plantation economy envisioned by God.

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  • @JayMan
    Well it is a separate "nation" from the surrounding area...

    The Delta (defined by most as the alluvial plain between Memphis and Vickburg) has a lot of quirks. Black majority; whites mostly from Episcopal/Presbyterian, rather than Baptist/Pentacostal religious traditions; it also has that odd mix (Blacks, Anglos,Jews, Chinese, Lebanese, Greeks, Italians) that formed in the 19th century that I associate with certain parts of the Caribbean; party boy genteel; people there have never been hung up about alcohol, even during Prohibition.

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    • Replies: @iffen
    The Delta

    The plantation economy envisioned by God.
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  • @yaqub the mad scientist
    Saw how my native Mississippi Delta was an outlier for "Friendly and Conventional". No surprises there. It's an outlier for, well, lots of things.

    Well it is a separate “nation” from the surrounding area…

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    • Replies: @yaqub the mad scientist
    The Delta (defined by most as the alluvial plain between Memphis and Vickburg) has a lot of quirks. Black majority; whites mostly from Episcopal/Presbyterian, rather than Baptist/Pentacostal religious traditions; it also has that odd mix (Blacks, Anglos,Jews, Chinese, Lebanese, Greeks, Italians) that formed in the 19th century that I associate with certain parts of the Caribbean; party boy genteel; people there have never been hung up about alcohol, even during Prohibition.
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  • Saw how my native Mississippi Delta was an outlier for “Friendly and Conventional”. No surprises there. It’s an outlier for, well, lots of things.

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    • Replies: @JayMan
    Well it is a separate "nation" from the surrounding area...
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  • Off topic

    Post traumatic disorder need neurotic disposition to express (sh)itself (because trauma is not a good thing to feel of course,

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  • @Anonymous
    The pattern seems to go back generations:

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/11911/protestant-catholic-vote.aspx

    It goes back to when the share of unaffiliated voters was negligible:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_religious_demographics_of_the_United_States

    Yes. And there are reasons for that, including two very big reasons. Future post.

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  • @JayMan

    White Protestants, both Evangelical and Mainline Protestants, seem to be more Republican than white Catholics:
     
    Indeed. But there are a few clues. Note the difference between Mainline and Evangelical Protestants.

    Also note the "unaffiliated" group.

    Anyways, more on this in a future post.

    The pattern seems to go back generations:

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/11911/protestant-catholic-vote.aspx

    It goes back to when the share of unaffiliated voters was negligible:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_religious_demographics_of_the_United_States

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    • Replies: @JayMan
    Yes. And there are reasons for that, including two very big reasons. Future post.
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  • AP says:
    @AP

    But yes subsequent British settlement (and other immigration) did make a demographic impact
     
    The impact was huge. Ontario got most of Canada's 19th century immigrants, most of whom were British Protestants. It is only a little exaggeration to say that non-Toronto Ontario is to Britain, what Quebec is to France, although its Britishness derives from the 19th century rather than the 17th-18th centuries. The towns have British architecture, British monuments (Boer War, etc.), and British settlement. Outside if heavily Chinese, Indian, Italian, and Jamaican multi-culti Toronto (an Australian friend told me it reminds her a lot of her native Melbourne - could this be said of any American Midland town?) the culture is provincial British - people drink hot tea, they have English gardens, etc.

    Similarities between Ontario and Iowa or Illinois are mostly topographic and superficial: they are largely flat and have farms; if you drive on the highway from Detroit to Toronto it will look like Indiana, but that's as far as the similarity goes. Off the highway you have towns like Stratford with its Shakespeare festival, Chatham on the Thames (70% British), etc.

    Anyone know where in Britain those settlers came from?
     
    http://www.englishtocanada.com/canada's_english.htm

    In terms of the English, everywhere - though it varied by time. Originally from the North (Yorkshire, Cornwall, Devon), the from the south, and then agricultural laborers form everywhere.

    A lot of the Scots are highlanders, and Ontario has annual Highland Games in Glengarry (largest such outside Scotland).

    Found a snippet here:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper_Canada#Ethnic_Groups

    The Great Migration from Britain from 1815-1850 has been numbered at 800,000. The population of Upper Canada in 1837 is documented at 409,000. Given the lack of detailed census data it is difficult to assess the relative size of the American & Canadian born “British” and the foreign born “British.” By the time of the first census in 1841, only

    half of the population of Upper Canada were foreign born British

    I don’t know why wiki states “only”. Estimated 50% of the population in Ontario being born in Britain is rather substantial.

    As I had mentioned, Toronto prior to the mid 20th century was so Protestant and so dominated by the Orange Order that to was referred to as the Belfast of Canada:

    https://www.timeshighereducation.com/books/review-toronto-the-belfast-of-canada-william-j-smyth

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    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    As I had mentioned, Toronto prior to the mid 20th century was so Protestant and so dominated by the Orange Order that to was referred to as the Belfast of Canada:
     
    Torontonians used to escape to Buffalo for some fun. That tells you something right there.
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  • AP says:
    @JayMan

    Demographically, Ontario’s main ethnic groups are
     
    That's self-reported ancestry though. See earlier comments by me on why that's an issue.

    But yes subsequent British settlement (and other immigration) did make a demographic impact.

    Anyone know where in Britain those settlers came from?

    But yes subsequent British settlement (and other immigration) did make a demographic impact

    The impact was huge. Ontario got most of Canada’s 19th century immigrants, most of whom were British Protestants. It is only a little exaggeration to say that non-Toronto Ontario is to Britain, what Quebec is to France, although its Britishness derives from the 19th century rather than the 17th-18th centuries. The towns have British architecture, British monuments (Boer War, etc.), and British settlement. Outside if heavily Chinese, Indian, Italian, and Jamaican multi-culti Toronto (an Australian friend told me it reminds her a lot of her native Melbourne – could this be said of any American Midland town?) the culture is provincial British – people drink hot tea, they have English gardens, etc.

    Similarities between Ontario and Iowa or Illinois are mostly topographic and superficial: they are largely flat and have farms; if you drive on the highway from Detroit to Toronto it will look like Indiana, but that’s as far as the similarity goes. Off the highway you have towns like Stratford with its Shakespeare festival, Chatham on the Thames (70% British), etc.

    Anyone know where in Britain those settlers came from?

    http://www.englishtocanada.com/canada’s_english.htm

    In terms of the English, everywhere – though it varied by time. Originally from the North (Yorkshire, Cornwall, Devon), the from the south, and then agricultural laborers form everywhere.

    A lot of the Scots are highlanders, and Ontario has annual Highland Games in Glengarry (largest such outside Scotland).

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    • Replies: @AP
    Found a snippet here:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper_Canada#Ethnic_Groups

    The Great Migration from Britain from 1815-1850 has been numbered at 800,000. The population of Upper Canada in 1837 is documented at 409,000. Given the lack of detailed census data it is difficult to assess the relative size of the American & Canadian born "British" and the foreign born "British." By the time of the first census in 1841, only

    half of the population of Upper Canada were foreign born British
     
    I don't know why wiki states "only". Estimated 50% of the population in Ontario being born in Britain is rather substantial.

    As I had mentioned, Toronto prior to the mid 20th century was so Protestant and so dominated by the Orange Order that to was referred to as the Belfast of Canada:

    https://www.timeshighereducation.com/books/review-toronto-the-belfast-of-canada-william-j-smyth
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  • @Marcus
    How can you group heavily German/Scandi (Italian and Slavic in cities) upper midwest with the NE (least German region) is beyond me. Yes they're both left of center on average, but in a different way.

    The area was heavily settled by Yankees from the east, in addition to those Germanic settlers.

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  • @AP

    As I noted above, the settlers to Ontario came from the Philadelphia area
     
    This was true of Kingston. Other areas were not. St. Catherine's was settled by Loyalists mostly from upstate New York. At any rate, the small numbers of Loyalist settlers in Ontario (estimated at about 6,000) were swamped by later waves of British settlement. The names of the towns (i.e., London with the Thames river, Stratford with its Shakespeare festival, Scottish Guelph), formal gardens, etc. are very British, and not at all Iowan. Prior to massive immigration in the mid 20th century, Toronto was basically 90% British and 10% Jewish and was controlled by the Orange Order. Ontario is still more British than even New England.

    Demographically, Ontario's main ethnic groups are:

    English, 24.7%; Scottish, 17.5%; Irish, 16.5%; French, 11.2%; German 9.5%.

    In Ohio it is: German, 26.5%, Irish 14.1%; African-American 12.2%; English 9%; Italian 6.4%.

    In Massachusetts it is 22.5% Irish, 13.5% Italian, 11.4% English, 8% French.

    Demographically, Ontario’s main ethnic groups are

    That’s self-reported ancestry though. See earlier comments by me on why that’s an issue.

    But yes subsequent British settlement (and other immigration) did make a demographic impact.

    Anyone know where in Britain those settlers came from?

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    • Replies: @AP

    But yes subsequent British settlement (and other immigration) did make a demographic impact
     
    The impact was huge. Ontario got most of Canada's 19th century immigrants, most of whom were British Protestants. It is only a little exaggeration to say that non-Toronto Ontario is to Britain, what Quebec is to France, although its Britishness derives from the 19th century rather than the 17th-18th centuries. The towns have British architecture, British monuments (Boer War, etc.), and British settlement. Outside if heavily Chinese, Indian, Italian, and Jamaican multi-culti Toronto (an Australian friend told me it reminds her a lot of her native Melbourne - could this be said of any American Midland town?) the culture is provincial British - people drink hot tea, they have English gardens, etc.

    Similarities between Ontario and Iowa or Illinois are mostly topographic and superficial: they are largely flat and have farms; if you drive on the highway from Detroit to Toronto it will look like Indiana, but that's as far as the similarity goes. Off the highway you have towns like Stratford with its Shakespeare festival, Chatham on the Thames (70% British), etc.

    Anyone know where in Britain those settlers came from?
     
    http://www.englishtocanada.com/canada's_english.htm

    In terms of the English, everywhere - though it varied by time. Originally from the North (Yorkshire, Cornwall, Devon), the from the south, and then agricultural laborers form everywhere.

    A lot of the Scots are highlanders, and Ontario has annual Highland Games in Glengarry (largest such outside Scotland).
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @JayMan

    I’m not sure how much these regions are supposed to be defined by historical settlement patterns. “Yankeedom” makes no sense on that basis. Yes, New Englanders went west, but then tended to go to northeastern Ohio, and to the Pacific Northwest. They didn’t go to Minnesota and Wisconsin
     
    You're wrong. See Genes, Climate, and Even More Maps of the American Nations

    Later the Irish and Italians came to New England, pushing out the Yankees
     
    They did get a lot of Irish and Italians, but Yankees are very much present.

    How can you group heavily German/Scandi (Italian and Slavic in cities) upper midwest with the NE (least German region) is beyond me. Yes they’re both left of center on average, but in a different way.

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    • Replies: @JayMan
    The area was heavily settled by Yankees from the east, in addition to those Germanic settlers.
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  • […] looks at a variety of maps to see what can be learned about Trump’s […]

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  • AP says:
    @JayMan

    It may be the British Empire’s “Midwest” but is much more like New England than like central Ohio. Other than multicultural Toronto and Arabic/Italian Windsor, it’s very and proudly British.
     
    As I noted above, the settlers to Ontario came from the Philadelphia area.

    As I noted above, the settlers to Ontario came from the Philadelphia area

    This was true of Kingston. Other areas were not. St. Catherine’s was settled by Loyalists mostly from upstate New York. At any rate, the small numbers of Loyalist settlers in Ontario (estimated at about 6,000) were swamped by later waves of British settlement. The names of the towns (i.e., London with the Thames river, Stratford with its Shakespeare festival, Scottish Guelph), formal gardens, etc. are very British, and not at all Iowan. Prior to massive immigration in the mid 20th century, Toronto was basically 90% British and 10% Jewish and was controlled by the Orange Order. Ontario is still more British than even New England.

    Demographically, Ontario’s main ethnic groups are:

    English, 24.7%; Scottish, 17.5%; Irish, 16.5%; French, 11.2%; German 9.5%.

    In Ohio it is: German, 26.5%, Irish 14.1%; African-American 12.2%; English 9%; Italian 6.4%.

    In Massachusetts it is 22.5% Irish, 13.5% Italian, 11.4% English, 8% French.

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    • Replies: @JayMan

    Demographically, Ontario’s main ethnic groups are
     
    That's self-reported ancestry though. See earlier comments by me on why that's an issue.

    But yes subsequent British settlement (and other immigration) did make a demographic impact.

    Anyone know where in Britain those settlers came from?

    , @David
    In 1984, my Northern Ontario elementary school classroom sported a large poster titled something like, "Ontario: 200 Years of History" (repeated in French of course.) When I asked what 1984 was the anniversary of that marked the start of Ontario history, I was told 1784 was the year the loyalists arrived in large numbers. I guess that wasn't true, since 6000 isn't many relative to 400,000, unless they're Syrians or something.
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  • @Anonymous
    White Protestants, both Evangelical and Mainline Protestants, seem to be more Republican than white Catholics:

    http://www.pewforum.org/2012/02/02/trends-in-party-identification-of-religious-groups-affiliation/

    Mormons seem to be the most Republican group. I don't know if they're technically Protestants or not, though they tend to be descended from Protestants.

    White Protestants, both Evangelical and Mainline Protestants, seem to be more Republican than white Catholics:

    Indeed. But there are a few clues. Note the difference between Mainline and Evangelical Protestants.

    Also note the “unaffiliated” group.

    Anyways, more on this in a future post.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    The pattern seems to go back generations:

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/11911/protestant-catholic-vote.aspx

    It goes back to when the share of unaffiliated voters was negligible:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_religious_demographics_of_the_United_States
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  • @AP
    This is great. It matches my own observations about death rate from prescription painkiller overdose and Trump/Cruz voting in Kentucky:

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/primaries-open-thread-republican/#comment-1349751

    One quibble, unrelated to the post's main topic, is your lumping Ontario in with much of the Midwest. It may be the British Empire's "Midwest" but is much more like New England than like central Ohio. Other than multicultural Toronto and Arabic/Italian Windsor, it's very and proudly British.

    It may be the British Empire’s “Midwest” but is much more like New England than like central Ohio. Other than multicultural Toronto and Arabic/Italian Windsor, it’s very and proudly British.

    As I noted above, the settlers to Ontario came from the Philadelphia area.

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    • Replies: @AP

    As I noted above, the settlers to Ontario came from the Philadelphia area
     
    This was true of Kingston. Other areas were not. St. Catherine's was settled by Loyalists mostly from upstate New York. At any rate, the small numbers of Loyalist settlers in Ontario (estimated at about 6,000) were swamped by later waves of British settlement. The names of the towns (i.e., London with the Thames river, Stratford with its Shakespeare festival, Scottish Guelph), formal gardens, etc. are very British, and not at all Iowan. Prior to massive immigration in the mid 20th century, Toronto was basically 90% British and 10% Jewish and was controlled by the Orange Order. Ontario is still more British than even New England.

    Demographically, Ontario's main ethnic groups are:

    English, 24.7%; Scottish, 17.5%; Irish, 16.5%; French, 11.2%; German 9.5%.

    In Ohio it is: German, 26.5%, Irish 14.1%; African-American 12.2%; English 9%; Italian 6.4%.

    In Massachusetts it is 22.5% Irish, 13.5% Italian, 11.4% English, 8% French.
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  • @Ed
    "The Midlands seem to me similarly a tough sell"

    I've not been buying this whole "nations" concept, and I realized with Random Observer's point that the sticking point for me has been "Midland". The region on the map even looks wrong, an incoherent mess of what looks like couldn't plausible be fit in with "Yankeedom" or "Greater Appalachia". But I might be able to buy the concept with some fixes.

    Just put Ontario with "Yankeedom" and "Midland" looks less ridiculous, plus the eastern and western halves of "Yankeedom" are linked, and Random Observer makes a good cultural case for this.

    I'm not sure how much these regions are supposed to be defined by historical settlement patterns. "Yankeedom" makes no sense on that basis. Yes, New Englanders went west, but then tended to go to northeastern Ohio, and to the Pacific Northwest. They didn't go to Minnesota and Wisconsin, which got alot of Scandinavians and Germans. Later the Irish and Italians came to New England, pushing out the Yankees, but are nowhere to be found in the upper Midwest. Politically and culturally, there is definitely a link which has been called "liberal Puritanism", and which includes at least Toronto as well, but whereever this comes from I don't think it comes from 18th and 19th century settlement history.

    Getting back to Midland, rural central Pennsylvania, or "Pennsyltucky" as I've heard it called within the state, should be assigned to Greater Appalachia. Similar landscape and culture, as well as voting patterns except during the decades when the CIO was strong. The Greater Philadelphia area doesn't fit with neighboring central Pennsylvania, or New York, or Maryland/ Tidewater, and is probably best understood as a detached part of "Midland". However, the main western portion of Midland should coincide essentially with the lower Midwest, it should include pretty much all of Illinois, most of Ohio (southeastern OH can stay in Greater Appalachia), more of Indiana, and probably also Milwaukee and Detroit. Missouri, apart from St. Louis and KC, is in Greater Appalachia. These changes would make Midland a much more cohesive region.

    I’m not sure how much these regions are supposed to be defined by historical settlement patterns. “Yankeedom” makes no sense on that basis. Yes, New Englanders went west, but then tended to go to northeastern Ohio, and to the Pacific Northwest. They didn’t go to Minnesota and Wisconsin

    You’re wrong. See Genes, Climate, and Even More Maps of the American Nations

    Later the Irish and Italians came to New England, pushing out the Yankees

    They did get a lot of Irish and Italians, but Yankees are very much present.

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    • Replies: @Marcus
    How can you group heavily German/Scandi (Italian and Slavic in cities) upper midwest with the NE (least German region) is beyond me. Yes they're both left of center on average, but in a different way.
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  • This is great. It matches my own observations about death rate from prescription painkiller overdose and Trump/Cruz voting in Kentucky:

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/primaries-open-thread-republican/#comment-1349751

    One quibble, unrelated to the post’s main topic, is your lumping Ontario in with much of the Midwest. It may be the British Empire’s “Midwest” but is much more like New England than like central Ohio. Other than multicultural Toronto and Arabic/Italian Windsor, it’s very and proudly British.

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    • Replies: @JayMan

    It may be the British Empire’s “Midwest” but is much more like New England than like central Ohio. Other than multicultural Toronto and Arabic/Italian Windsor, it’s very and proudly British.
     
    As I noted above, the settlers to Ontario came from the Philadelphia area.
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  • @random observer
    Yeah, as a Canadian I bridled at that one too. But although they do not feel the same to me [Maritimers seem more reserved than New Englanders to me, but then my experience of New England is more Boston than Maine or even rural Mass] they do have a lot in common and parallel histories, and the cultural links between the Maritimes and New England are well known and VERY deep even now.

    I was more interested in the size of Yankeedom as a whole. I'll have to go back to your series. I never quite got the idea that New England, New York, and the Scando-German Midwest were the same nation. Though compared to their immediate neighbours, perhaps so.

    The Midlands seem to me similarly a tough sell, but perhaps I'm not looking deeply enough at settlement patterns and just at superficial culture. As a transition zone between Yankeedom and the various southern nations, for sure. Perhaps even as a transition zone out west. But I'm not sure all of southern and central Ontario works in that model. The northern part maybe. But southern Ontario from Windsor to Kingston mirrors its Yankee neighbour- from Industrial Detroit's Windsor satellite to the old farmlands of the Thames valley, through Niagara and into areas across the Lake from New York. Loyalist version of Yankeedom at the start. And still with many of the same norms- progressivism [at first just in the capitalist/technical sense but later in the ideological one], progressive religion [dominated by the United Church kind of Protestantism], statism, elitism in culture, for long a tug of war between big business orientation and farmer populism].

    Anyway. Random thoughts.

    This discussion in the context of the current election reminds me of "Amerika" circa 1987, as the Soviets set up an independent state of "Heartland". It was all about the common good, you see:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAjlvwVGZKk

    “The Midlands seem to me similarly a tough sell”

    I’ve not been buying this whole “nations” concept, and I realized with Random Observer’s point that the sticking point for me has been “Midland”. The region on the map even looks wrong, an incoherent mess of what looks like couldn’t plausible be fit in with “Yankeedom” or “Greater Appalachia”. But I might be able to buy the concept with some fixes.

    Just put Ontario with “Yankeedom” and “Midland” looks less ridiculous, plus the eastern and western halves of “Yankeedom” are linked, and Random Observer makes a good cultural case for this.

    I’m not sure how much these regions are supposed to be defined by historical settlement patterns. “Yankeedom” makes no sense on that basis. Yes, New Englanders went west, but then tended to go to northeastern Ohio, and to the Pacific Northwest. They didn’t go to Minnesota and Wisconsin, which got alot of Scandinavians and Germans. Later the Irish and Italians came to New England, pushing out the Yankees, but are nowhere to be found in the upper Midwest. Politically and culturally, there is definitely a link which has been called “liberal Puritanism”, and which includes at least Toronto as well, but whereever this comes from I don’t think it comes from 18th and 19th century settlement history.

    Getting back to Midland, rural central Pennsylvania, or “Pennsyltucky” as I’ve heard it called within the state, should be assigned to Greater Appalachia. Similar landscape and culture, as well as voting patterns except during the decades when the CIO was strong. The Greater Philadelphia area doesn’t fit with neighboring central Pennsylvania, or New York, or Maryland/ Tidewater, and is probably best understood as a detached part of “Midland”. However, the main western portion of Midland should coincide essentially with the lower Midwest, it should include pretty much all of Illinois, most of Ohio (southeastern OH can stay in Greater Appalachia), more of Indiana, and probably also Milwaukee and Detroit. Missouri, apart from St. Louis and KC, is in Greater Appalachia. These changes would make Midland a much more cohesive region.

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    • Replies: @JayMan

    I’m not sure how much these regions are supposed to be defined by historical settlement patterns. “Yankeedom” makes no sense on that basis. Yes, New Englanders went west, but then tended to go to northeastern Ohio, and to the Pacific Northwest. They didn’t go to Minnesota and Wisconsin
     
    You're wrong. See Genes, Climate, and Even More Maps of the American Nations

    Later the Irish and Italians came to New England, pushing out the Yankees
     
    They did get a lot of Irish and Italians, but Yankees are very much present.
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  • @JayMan

    Look at this, granted it doesn’t take into account nuances of ethnicity, region, etc. Catholics in eg Louisiana not more liberal than Prot neighbors http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/catholics-real-liberals/
     
    A future post will make the problems with these comparisons glaringly clear. But for now, it's enough to say 1. which Catholics? 2. Who calls themselves a Protestant?

    White Protestants, both Evangelical and Mainline Protestants, seem to be more Republican than white Catholics:

    http://www.pewforum.org/2012/02/02/trends-in-party-identification-of-religious-groups-affiliation/

    Mormons seem to be the most Republican group. I don’t know if they’re technically Protestants or not, though they tend to be descended from Protestants.

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    • Replies: @JayMan

    White Protestants, both Evangelical and Mainline Protestants, seem to be more Republican than white Catholics:
     
    Indeed. But there are a few clues. Note the difference between Mainline and Evangelical Protestants.

    Also note the "unaffiliated" group.

    Anyways, more on this in a future post.

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