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    "As one of the conditions of considering publication of this article, Ron Unz has required me to personally apologize to commenter Rurik for having previously threatened to "dox" him based on our private correspondence. I am therefore providing that apology, and also sincerely promising to make no such threats nor take such actions against him...
  • Keep your eye on ebay, theres one for 1974 George Washington Carver Jr High School Yearbook – Los Angeles CA for $24.99

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/1974-George-Washington-Carver-Jr-High-School-Yearbook-Original-Los-Angeles-CA/152521876258?hash=item2383032322:g:YVIAAOSw3ZRY~MFm

    One for 1961 George Washington High School San Francisco, California for $50

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Surveyor-1961-George-Washington-High-School-Yearbook-San-Francisco-Califor/131464439669?hash=item1e9be42775:m:mWuqyPNz8sy5i6JMIUD00VQ

    Not the one your’re looking for, but sooner or later I’m sure one will pop up, I’ve seen several over the years at garage sales and estate sales going all the way back to the 50′s. I’ll try and look out for one when I’m on Ebay.

    Even if you did have the book, there would still be the crowd doubting you. Pretty much everyone I’ve ever talked to knows the official story is a lie.

    Anyone with a brain can watch the videos and tell the buildings were blown up with demolition charges. The plane or no plane thing is just something to distract from that. I personally don’t think planes hit the Pentagon or crashed into the farm in Penn.

    It really doesn’t matter until we get some people in charge of America that aren’t corrupt traitors, that actually care about the country, not just about the money or their political career, they have all the info. right now as we speak. They could release it tomorrow if they wanted. The fact that they haven’t tells me that who did it is still in charge of things, and we all know who is pulling the strings in DC. They openly brag about it routinely.

    The energy beam weapon theories, no planes theories are put out there to poison the well, so the MSM can get on TV and say something like:
    “The conspiracy theorist nutjobs believe 9/11 was an inside job and used Star Wars death star beams to blow up the WTC!”
    This makes the whole thing look stupid to the brainwashed zombies, they put theories like these out there just for this purpose..
    David Icke thinks Elites are lizard people, so he is clearly put out there to make people who doubt the official story look like loons too.
    Same with the flat earth crowd, obviously.
    James Corbett, Christopher Bollyn seem ok from what I’ve seen.

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  • Am I alone in thinking that the on-line version may well be a true rendition of the original hard copy yearbook, and that the multi-layer confusion surrounding her appearance therein is one of the features that made the “Betty Ong” persona attractive to anyone who needed to create an identity?

    That, after all is exactly what identity creators do. They scour birth/death records, school yearbooks, etc looking for a person who was really born, but who’s official life history goes murky/disappears, thus creating a tabula rasa on which to paint the new identity’s life history.

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  • @anonymous
    looks the same, graduated at the same time, cannot be identified as a different person

    My thoughts exactly. She look very similar to me, although I will freely admit that my judgment in this regard may be off. Maybe it wasn't even a typo. Maybe it was entered in the yearbook that way for some very trivial, as of yet unknown reason. Maybe the different spelling is actually a conspiracy in itself. I don't know what the answer is, and I don't know that anyone has ever even looked into it.

    I just find it amazing that other commenters here are suggesting that the idea that her name may have been spelled slightly differently in some old yearbook (for whatever reason) is ludicrous, crazy, outlandish nonsense that is completely outside the realm of possibility, while the simpler and more likely conclusion is that she never really existed, and is in reality part of a huge, highly elaborate, multilayered conspiracy involving dozens, possibly hundreds of people. All of the people in on the conspiracy are perfectly fine with being complicit in the murder of thousands of innocent Americans for unexplained reasons. Not a single one of these people ever comes forward. Ever.

    Maybe it was entered in the yearbook that way for some very trivial, as of yet unknown reason.

    That’s a stretch, given that both Betty Ng and Betty Ong are in the yearbook and that the yearbook’s names would have been transcribed from the school’s official student roll.

    Did the student roll contain two names for one person?
    If it did:
    Are there two transcripts? Are they the same, or different?
    Did they participate in the same, or different extracurricular clubs, associations, etc?
    Did that person get 2 graduation diplomas?

    IOW, if Betty Ng is, in fact Betty Ong then things can get weird very quickly.

    As for:

    She look very similar to me, although I will freely admit that my judgment in this regard may be off.

    … the latter half of the statement would appear to be much closer to the mark than the former. FWIW, I’ve been living in Asia for a decade, and to my eye they’re not even close. 8 or 9 years ago, I probably would’ve agreed with you.

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  • @utu
    Sorry I engaged you. I forgot you are an idiot after all.

    It takes an idiot, like you, to recognize another fucking idiot, like sean.

    Both of you are also pathetic liars and trolls.

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    • Agree: Jonathan Revusky
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  • @redmudhooch
    Oops, forgot the video, Watch this video at 4:20, 5:40, 6:40
    Those are explosions, below the falling top, even the reporters agree!

    https://youtu.be/qhyu-fZ2nRA

    Regrettably, I have fallen into the habit of referring to the explosions as collapses even though I’ve known almost from the beginning that explosives caused the buildings to be destroyed. I shall take greater care to no longer do so.

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  • @Cold N. Holefield
    Chuck Orloski,

    There's no doubt J.R. is highly intelligent and incredibly thorough & comprehensive. I like how he even corrected my hyperbole to Keep it Honest. I respect that.

    I guess I was a bit taken aback because it appeared he was taking me the wrong way. I respect the work he's done on this and his thinking on this. I wasn't trying to attack him or impugn him in any way.

    Terrific literary “screen name” pun, Cold N. Holefield! Thanks!
     
    Thank you. Catcher In The Rye is an excellent book, and the fact that various Freaks like Mark David Chapman and John Hinckley were so drawn to it has always intrigued me. As well, the messaging in that book is Spot On. Everyone, or most everyone, is a Phoney. Or, It's All Lies.

    Sweet dreams are made of this
    Who am I to disagree?
    I travel the world and the seven seas
    Everybody's looking for something

    Some of them want to use you
    Some of them want to get used by you
    Some of them want to abuse you
    Some of them want to be abused
     

    Cold N. Holefield wrote reflectively:
    “There’s no doubt J.R. is highly intelligent and incredibly thorough & comprehensive. I like how he even corrected my hyperbole to Keep it Honest. I respect that.”

    Hi “Catcher,”

    I like the way you think and how you exhibit signs of having “thick skin” with some people’s lack thereof.

    Strong minds & personalities, it’s too bad Jon & Ron are currently reacting as acid & base on this very “unspeakable” 9/11 matter. *

    Thanks, Cold N. Holefield!

    *The late-Thomas Merton wrote about President JFK’s absolute need for having “thick skin,” due to ruthless pressures being brought to bear by what the Trappist monk deigned as “UNSPEAKABLE” (domestic) warmongering forces.

    P.S.:
    I like the song-lyric you featured but for the life of me, my foot tapped, but I can’t recall the title name & original artist. At first, I considered Dylan’s “The Mighty Quinn (the Eskimo).”

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  • @Seamus Day

    I have more than you have, a man who lived in NYC and saw it happen.
     
    A friend of my mom’s who lives in Arlington, VA, called right after the news from the WTC was breaking, and smoke was coming from what the news thought was from the Capitol, and she was crying and told my mom that see just saw a plane fly into the Pentagon. I was there when my mom took the call.

    No plane hit the Pentagon, unless you believe in The Incredible Shrinking Plane, one that leaves a much smaller hole than its actual size when it crashes.

    “They shall find it difficult, they who have taken authority as truth rather than truth as authority.”

    Gerald Massey.

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  • @Jonathan Revusky

    the lazy bum Revusky
     
    Utu, you pathetic dumbass... by your logic, if you took your car to a mechanic specifically for an oil change, and he did just that, changed the oil, he would be a "lazy bum" because he did not take the opportunity to rebuild your car's engine!

    The wager with Unz was specifically about whether Betty Ong was in the appropriate high school yearbook. To say that I'm lazy because I resolved that question and didn't go further makes no sense really.

    Now, granted, as the scriptures say, out of the mouths of dumbasses can come words of wisdom, so you do make a valid point about hiring a private investigator. Assuming one really did want to resolve the Betty Ong question thoroughly, I guess that is what one would do -- as opposed to insisting that I, somebody who is not any sort of professional investigator, do it.

    So, yes, I would be perfectly happy if Ron hired a PI to do just that. However, he really ought to pay off on this wager to me first.

    Have you considered putting a classified ad in a local paper or a listing on Craig’s List in the Bay Area offering a reward for a hard copy of the yearbook? I would think that $500 would flush one out, assuming one still exists.

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  • @Sean
    According to Why Leaders Lie: The Truth About Lying In International Politics by John J. Mearsheimer (Oxford University Press) Lying isn't necessary, useful or even possible most of the time.
    A False Flag 9/11 would require total mastery of US government, intelligence security, police, and most crucially the army, which could always stage a coup. It just isn't that easy to be make a selfish penguin conspiracy work. A nation state is not as sophisticated as a bunch on penguins.

    I apologize for my earlier comment where I thought we were in agreement.
    Oxford University? They couldn’t POSSIBLY be in on it, could they?? THEM, INSIDERS??
    And that was quite a gem,
    ‘A nation state is not as sophisticated as a bunch of penguins.’
    I’m beginning to think you are indeed yourself a penguin, and good for you.

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  • @Anonymous

    I picked up somewhere that Betty Ong went to George Washington High on 32nd Avenue
     
    Perhaps someone decided after the fact to connect Betty Ong with the WRONG high school as a diversionary psyop, and created "supporting" material to keep this diversion afloat as long as possible.

    Since a considerable number of people actually died on 9/11, it is not clear why someone would have to invent a FICTITIOUS individual to hang the phone dialogues on.

    The fiction has to be contrived prior to the actual event taking place so that media can all parrot the same lines and how the BBC came to report the collapse of WTC7 prior to its actual collapse. This is also why media announces the names and pictures of the so called perpetrators long before any real investigation has commenced and, more importantly, to derail any inconvenient facts that might emerge prior to the entire media being corralled.

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  • @Bill Jones
    The Official Version of 9/11 goes something like this…

    Directed by a beardy-guy from a cave in Afghanistan, ( This well appointed Suite http://www.edwardjayepstein.com/nether_fictoid3.htm according to the London Times): nineteen hard-drinking, coke-snorting, devout Muslims enjoy lap dances before their mission to meet Allah…

    Using nothing more than craft knifes, they overpower cabin crew, passengers and pilots on four planes…

    And hangover or not, they manage to give the world’s most sophisticated air defense system the slip…

    Unfazed by leaving their “How to Fly a Passenger Jet” guide in the car at the airport, they master the controls in no-time and score direct hits on two towers, causing THREE to collapse completely…

    Our masterminds even manage to overpower the odd law of physics or two… and the world watches in awe as steel-framed buildings fall symmetrically – through their own mass – at free-fall speed, for the first time in history.

    Despite all their dastardly cunning, they stupidly give their identity away by using explosion-proof passports, which survive the fireball undamaged and fall to the ground… only to be discovered by the incredible crime-fighting sleuths at the FBI…

    …Meanwhile down in Washington…

    Hani Hanjour, having previously flunked 2-man Cessna flying school, gets carried away with all the success of the day and suddenly finds incredible abilities behind the controls of a Boeing…

    Instead of flying straight down into the large roof area of the Pentagon, he decides to show off a little…

    Executing an incredible 270 degree downward spiral, he levels off to hit the low facade of the world’s most heavily defended building…

    …all without a single shot being fired…. or ruining the nicely mowed lawn… and all at a speed just too fast to capture on video…

    …Later, in the skies above Pennsylvania…

    So desperate to talk to loved ones before their death, some passengers use sheer willpower to connect mobile calls that otherwise would not be possible until several years later…

    And following a heroic attempt by some to retake control of Flight 93, it crashes into a Shankesville field leaving no trace of engines, fuselage or occupants… except for the standard issue Muslim terrorists bandana…

    …Further south in Florida…

    President Bush, our brave Commander-in-Chief continues to read “My Pet Goat” to a class full of primary school children… shrugging off the obvious possibility that his life could be in imminent danger…

    …In New York…

    World Trade Center leaseholder Larry Silverstein blesses his own foresight in insuring the buildings against terrorist attack only six weeks previously…

    While back in Washington, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz shake their heads in disbelief at their own luck in getting the ‘New Pearl Harbor’ catalyzing event they so desired to pursue their agenda of world domination…

    And finally, not to be disturbed too much by reports of their own deaths, at least seven of our nineteen suicide hijackers turn up alive and kicking in mainstream media reports…

    And If you don’t believe this, you are a conspiracy theorist.

    You reminded me of the 5 min video by James Corbett:

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  • @Sean
    I don't know anything "FOR SURE" and neither do you. No one in this world does because no one may have absolute verification of data, no matter how loudly and persistently they call for it. It is not empirically verifiable that a Brotherhood of the Bell type organisation (Skull and Bones according to Anthony P. Sutton ) does not deliberately create enemies such as Hitler and Stalin all the better to forment war and control America. Nor is it "for sure" that anyone died in 9/11, which may have been staged by the cia chief two presidents and a senator Bonesmen Bush clan, maybe the victims were not 100% veritably real people because 9/11 never actually happened.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gulf_War_Did_Not_Take_Place

    The essays in Libération and The Guardian were published before, during and after the Gulf War and they were titled accordingly: during the American military and rhetorical buildup as "The Gulf War Will not take Place"; during military action as "The Gulf War is not Taking Place", and after action was over, "The Gulf War Did Not Take Place".
     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperreality#Simulacrum
    In his work Simulacra and Simulation, Baudrillard argues the "imaginary world" of Disneyland magnetizes people inside and has been presented as "imaginary" to make people believe that all its surroundings are "real". But he believes that the Los Angeles area is not real; thus it is hyperreal. Disneyland is a set of apparatuses which tries to bring imagination and fiction to what is called "real". This concerns the American values and way of life in a sense and "concealing the fact that the real is no longer real, and thus of saving the reality principle."[19]

    "The Disneyland imaginary is neither true or false: it is a deterrence machine set up in order to rejuvenate in reverse the fiction of the real. Whence the debility, the infantile degeneration of this imaginary. It's meant to be an infantile world, in order to make us believe that the adults are elsewhere, in the "real" world, and to conceal the fact that real childishness is everywhere, particularly among those adults who go there to act the child in order to foster illusions of their real childishness."
     

     
    Its possible at the centre of the huddle of south pole Emperor penguins is always the same bunch of free riders, and a secret organisation running the USA stays in power whatever happens.

    ‘Its possible at the centre of the huddle of south pole Emperor penguins is always the same bunch of free riders, and a secret organisation running the USA stays in power whatever happens.’

    We seem to be in agreement. And though I certainly don’t claim to be absolutely sure, the latter part of the above statement can only conceivably be absolutely true–all evidence in daily life confirms it, if one pays attention, as certainly do the farcicle elections every year or so, as does common sense when you ask yourself, Do I have ANY political power, any whatsoever? What about my state? Or town for that matter? How can we all possibly be ever in lock step with master’s agenda, shit and puked out 24/7 right into our brains?

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  • @Seamus Day

    I have more than you have, a man who lived in NYC and saw it happen.
     
    A friend of my mom’s who lives in Arlington, VA, called right after the news from the WTC was breaking, and smoke was coming from what the news thought was from the Capitol, and she was crying and told my mom that see just saw a plane fly into the Pentagon. I was there when my mom took the call.

    ‘and she was crying and told my mom that see just saw a plane fly into the Pentagon. I was there when my mom took the call.’

    And yet, with all the surveillance cameras, probably numbering in the hundreds, pointed right there, no video has been released by the Pentagon or FBI or CIA, for national security reasons. But there is one single linked video, easy to find, which shows an almost lightening-quick flash and what looks like a missile.
    And of course, no seats, engines, dead bodies–ever see footage of a real airplane crash?

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  • @Cold N. Holefield

    So you can’t just start going on saying that these people are repeating the story, therefore the story must be true, because that is precisely the proposition that is under dispute! Can’t you see that?
     
    Why do you think I can't see that? Of course I see it!!! The next logical question then becomes, is the entire story false or is some of it false, and if some of it's false, which parts are false and which are true? That's what I'm interested in, not your Wager.

    If it doesn't mean any more to you than the Wager, then why are you even bothering with it any longer? You've proven your point, and if you're not curious beyond that, well, that's your prerogative, but I'm still curious.

    To satisfy your curiosity, it occurs to me that the Social Security Death Index might be something to check. It’s public record and you have two points to enter: her name and the date of death.

    I’d think that if she’s real and she died on 9/11/2001, there would be a record for her.

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  • @ChuckOrloski
    Cold N. Holefield commented:
    "The Wager part of it, for me at least, is non-essential. For you, yes, I realize, $10,000 is nothing to sneeze at and it’s also a matter of principle."

    Hi Cold N. Holefield,

    Agreed, above, and thanks for writing such practical sense!

    Ideally, Jon Revusky's article was written for a principled purpose.

    I trust J.R. did the work as a result of having made a choice between the forces of enlightenment & truth versus those of endarkenment & lies.

    For me, on the bright side, the anecdotal Unz / Revusky "wager" proliferates comments, but I'd like to see both scholarly men "pool" what is now apparent about the Phantom of The Flight 11 Opera, Betty Ong.

    P.S.:
    Terrific literary "screen name" pun, Cold N. Holefield! Thanks!

    Chuck Orloski,

    There’s no doubt J.R. is highly intelligent and incredibly thorough & comprehensive. I like how he even corrected my hyperbole to Keep it Honest. I respect that.

    I guess I was a bit taken aback because it appeared he was taking me the wrong way. I respect the work he’s done on this and his thinking on this. I wasn’t trying to attack him or impugn him in any way.

    Terrific literary “screen name” pun, Cold N. Holefield! Thanks!

    Thank you. Catcher In The Rye is an excellent book, and the fact that various Freaks like Mark David Chapman and John Hinckley were so drawn to it has always intrigued me. As well, the messaging in that book is Spot On. Everyone, or most everyone, is a Phoney. Or, It’s All Lies.

    Sweet dreams are made of this
    Who am I to disagree?
    I travel the world and the seven seas
    Everybody’s looking for something

    Some of them want to use you
    Some of them want to get used by you
    Some of them want to abuse you
    Some of them want to be abused

    Read More
    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
    Cold N. Holefield wrote reflectively:
    "There’s no doubt J.R. is highly intelligent and incredibly thorough & comprehensive. I like how he even corrected my hyperbole to Keep it Honest. I respect that."

    Hi "Catcher,"

    I like the way you think and how you exhibit signs of having "thick skin" with some people's lack thereof.

    Strong minds & personalities, it's too bad Jon & Ron are currently reacting as acid & base on this very "unspeakable" 9/11 matter. *

    Thanks, Cold N. Holefield!

    *The late-Thomas Merton wrote about President JFK's absolute need for having "thick skin," due to ruthless pressures being brought to bear by what the Trappist monk deigned as "UNSPEAKABLE" (domestic) warmongering forces.

    P.S.:
    I like the song-lyric you featured but for the life of me, my foot tapped, but I can't recall the title name & original artist. At first, I considered Dylan's "The Mighty Quinn (the Eskimo)."
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  • @Uebersetzer
    Kind of interesting, this. A staple of Unz comments and some articles is of how low-IQ everyone is outside North America and Western Europe (and even there there are blacks etc.) but suddenly they are more perceptive and see through what is phony, in say, the Central African Republic compared to the States, simply because they watch less TV.

    ‘suddenly they are more perceptive and see through what is phony, in say, the Central African Republic compared to the States, simply because they watch less TV’

    Not only do most people watch far less tv than Americans, but they are actually, many of them, INVADED BY … Americans (and Brits and French, the grand coalition in lock step). But tv brainwashes anyone it touches. Its extremely harmful effects have to be consciously unlearned, a sometimes painful process (finding out this or that cherished thing is there to do you harm, from sports teams and individuals to favorite tv shows and movies and music).

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  • @Ngo Ng
    If you are not on anti-psychotic meds, you should begin taking them. If you are on anti-psychotic meds, you should immediately stop taking them.

    Michelle Malkin's blabberwith is more relevant than your "I myself" misadled sloppiness. In fact, Trump makes more sense than you. By the way my one really born in Ireland Irish friend adopted a child from Asia (so you can understand, the child is actually an asian) and the rest you can try to imagine.

    You must be a project of Ron's (a Columbia graduate crack head in rehab type project) for him to put your nuttiness to this site.

    This will trip your wire, if 911 was a false flag operation, and Betty Ong "hersef" does not exist, why?

    The Official Version of 9/11 goes something like this…

    Directed by a beardy-guy from a cave in Afghanistan, ( This well appointed Suite http://www.edwardjayepstein.com/nether_fictoid3.htm according to the London Times): nineteen hard-drinking, coke-snorting, devout Muslims enjoy lap dances before their mission to meet Allah…

    Using nothing more than craft knifes, they overpower cabin crew, passengers and pilots on four planes…

    And hangover or not, they manage to give the world’s most sophisticated air defense system the slip…

    Unfazed by leaving their “How to Fly a Passenger Jet” guide in the car at the airport, they master the controls in no-time and score direct hits on two towers, causing THREE to collapse completely…

    Our masterminds even manage to overpower the odd law of physics or two… and the world watches in awe as steel-framed buildings fall symmetrically – through their own mass – at free-fall speed, for the first time in history.

    Despite all their dastardly cunning, they stupidly give their identity away by using explosion-proof passports, which survive the fireball undamaged and fall to the ground… only to be discovered by the incredible crime-fighting sleuths at the FBI…

    …Meanwhile down in Washington…

    Hani Hanjour, having previously flunked 2-man Cessna flying school, gets carried away with all the success of the day and suddenly finds incredible abilities behind the controls of a Boeing…

    Instead of flying straight down into the large roof area of the Pentagon, he decides to show off a little…

    Executing an incredible 270 degree downward spiral, he levels off to hit the low facade of the world’s most heavily defended building…

    …all without a single shot being fired…. or ruining the nicely mowed lawn… and all at a speed just too fast to capture on video…

    …Later, in the skies above Pennsylvania…

    So desperate to talk to loved ones before their death, some passengers use sheer willpower to connect mobile calls that otherwise would not be possible until several years later…

    And following a heroic attempt by some to retake control of Flight 93, it crashes into a Shankesville field leaving no trace of engines, fuselage or occupants… except for the standard issue Muslim terrorists bandana…

    …Further south in Florida…

    President Bush, our brave Commander-in-Chief continues to read “My Pet Goat” to a class full of primary school children… shrugging off the obvious possibility that his life could be in imminent danger…

    …In New York…

    World Trade Center leaseholder Larry Silverstein blesses his own foresight in insuring the buildings against terrorist attack only six weeks previously…

    While back in Washington, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz shake their heads in disbelief at their own luck in getting the ‘New Pearl Harbor’ catalyzing event they so desired to pursue their agenda of world domination…

    And finally, not to be disturbed too much by reports of their own deaths, at least seven of our nineteen suicide hijackers turn up alive and kicking in mainstream media reports…

    And If you don’t believe this, you are a conspiracy theorist.

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    • Replies: @utu
    You reminded me of the 5 min video by James Corbett:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuC_4mGTs98

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  • @Anon
    I have more than you have, a man who lived in NYC and saw it happen.

    Okay, I didn’t see it happen live, but was in NY six months later and saw the still-smoldering crater. Indeed, I hereby confirm that the World Trade Center is no more. And big whoop. Who ever said otherwise?

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  • anonymous[307] • Disclaimer says:
    @Tyrion 2
    If there's a girl who looks the same, graduated at the same time, cannot be identified as a different person, has the same English first name and has the same Chinese surname then she surely is the same whatever small and understandable typo may have been made in a student produced yearbook.

    Until Revusky discounts this perfectly sensible set of inferences he cannot be said to have won the bet. A one letter transliteration mistake is hum drum. All of the conspiracy freaks keep ignoring this...I assume because they have no answer to it.

    looks the same, graduated at the same time, cannot be identified as a different person

    My thoughts exactly. She look very similar to me, although I will freely admit that my judgment in this regard may be off. Maybe it wasn’t even a typo. Maybe it was entered in the yearbook that way for some very trivial, as of yet unknown reason. Maybe the different spelling is actually a conspiracy in itself. I don’t know what the answer is, and I don’t know that anyone has ever even looked into it.

    I just find it amazing that other commenters here are suggesting that the idea that her name may have been spelled slightly differently in some old yearbook (for whatever reason) is ludicrous, crazy, outlandish nonsense that is completely outside the realm of possibility, while the simpler and more likely conclusion is that she never really existed, and is in reality part of a huge, highly elaborate, multilayered conspiracy involving dozens, possibly hundreds of people. All of the people in on the conspiracy are perfectly fine with being complicit in the murder of thousands of innocent Americans for unexplained reasons. Not a single one of these people ever comes forward. Ever.

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    • Replies: @Erebus

    Maybe it was entered in the yearbook that way for some very trivial, as of yet unknown reason.
     
    That's a stretch, given that both Betty Ng and Betty Ong are in the yearbook and that the yearbook's names would have been transcribed from the school's official student roll.

    Did the student roll contain two names for one person?
    If it did:
    Are there two transcripts? Are they the same, or different?
    Did they participate in the same, or different extracurricular clubs, associations, etc?
    Did that person get 2 graduation diplomas?

    IOW, if Betty Ng is, in fact Betty Ong then things can get weird very quickly.

    As for:

    She look very similar to me, although I will freely admit that my judgment in this regard may be off.
     
    ... the latter half of the statement would appear to be much closer to the mark than the former. FWIW, I've been living in Asia for a decade, and to my eye they're not even close. 8 or 9 years ago, I probably would've agreed with you.
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  • Disordered thoughts on the National Cockatoo’s latest antics. One: The aghastment and horrilation about the terrible, appalling, shocking etc nature of gas warfare is nonsense. There is nothing unusually hideous about the use of toxic chemicals. Hideous, yes, but not unusually hideous. Boring old workaday artillery, that nobody criticizes, leaves children watching as mommy frantically...
  • @Simply Simon
    JJ, I understand your anger, but I would be happy if just the major perps would be convicted. Sunday the Austin American-Statesman ran a comprehensive story commemorating the entire incident as it unfolded. Basically it was your Federal government at its worst. Yesterday the same paper ran an article concerning the lessons learned from that debacle, many years too late and millions of dollars too short. In the article one of the FBI agents there, now retired indicated he believed Hillary was the one who actually gave the go ahead to set fire to the compound.

    I would like every one of the the war criminals, from top to bottom, hanged.

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  • "As one of the conditions of considering publication of this article, Ron Unz has required me to personally apologize to commenter Rurik for having previously threatened to "dox" him based on our private correspondence. I am therefore providing that apology, and also sincerely promising to make no such threats nor take such actions against him...
  • @Cold N. Holefield
    I'm not disputing the verity or specifics of the Wager. I'm genuinely interested in this and in getting to the bottom of it. The Wager part of it, for me at least, is non-essential. For you, yes, I realize, $10,000 is nothing to sneeze at and it's also a matter of principle. I understand, but I have no dog in that fight.

    Cold N. Holefield commented:
    “The Wager part of it, for me at least, is non-essential. For you, yes, I realize, $10,000 is nothing to sneeze at and it’s also a matter of principle.”

    Hi Cold N. Holefield,

    Agreed, above, and thanks for writing such practical sense!

    Ideally, Jon Revusky’s article was written for a principled purpose.

    I trust J.R. did the work as a result of having made a choice between the forces of enlightenment & truth versus those of endarkenment & lies.

    For me, on the bright side, the anecdotal Unz / Revusky “wager” proliferates comments, but I’d like to see both scholarly men “pool” what is now apparent about the Phantom of The Flight 11 Opera, Betty Ong.

    P.S.:
    Terrific literary “screen name” pun, Cold N. Holefield! Thanks!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Cold N. Holefield
    Chuck Orloski,

    There's no doubt J.R. is highly intelligent and incredibly thorough & comprehensive. I like how he even corrected my hyperbole to Keep it Honest. I respect that.

    I guess I was a bit taken aback because it appeared he was taking me the wrong way. I respect the work he's done on this and his thinking on this. I wasn't trying to attack him or impugn him in any way.

    Terrific literary “screen name” pun, Cold N. Holefield! Thanks!
     
    Thank you. Catcher In The Rye is an excellent book, and the fact that various Freaks like Mark David Chapman and John Hinckley were so drawn to it has always intrigued me. As well, the messaging in that book is Spot On. Everyone, or most everyone, is a Phoney. Or, It's All Lies.

    Sweet dreams are made of this
    Who am I to disagree?
    I travel the world and the seven seas
    Everybody's looking for something

    Some of them want to use you
    Some of them want to get used by you
    Some of them want to abuse you
    Some of them want to be abused
     
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  • Wednesday’s criminal referral by 11 House Republicans of former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton as well as several former and serving top FBI and Department of Justice (DOJ) officials is a giant step toward a Constitutional crisis. Named in the referral to the DOJ for possible violations of federal law are: Clinton, former FBI Director...
  • @NoseytheDuke
    I'm on the other side of the planet but a friend in the Mid-West sent me this and I thought I'd ask if anyone else had seen it?

    Is there corruption in DC?

    From 2001 to 2005 there was an ongoing investigation into the Clinton Foundation. A Grand Jury had been empaneled. The investigation was triggered by the pardon of Marc Rich ..

    Governments from around the world had donated to the “Charity”. Yet, from 2001 to 2003 none of those “Donations” to the Clinton Foundation were declared.

    Guess who took over this investigation in 2002? Bet you can’t guess. No other than James Comey.

    Guess who was transferred in to the Internal Revenue Service to run the Tax Exemption Branch of the IRS? Your friend and mine, Lois “Be on The Look Out” (BOLO) Lerner.

    It gets better, well not really, but this is all just a series of strange coincidences, right?

    Guess who ran the Tax Division inside the Department of Injustice from 2001 to 2005? No other than the Assistant Attorney General of the United States, Rod Rosenstein.

    Guess who was the Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation during this time frame??? I know, it’s a miracle, just a coincidence, just an anomaly in statistics and chances: Robert Mueller.

    What do all four casting characters have in common? They all were briefed and were front line investigators into the Clinton Foundation Investigation.

    Now that’s just a coincidence, right? Ok, lets chalk the last one up to mere chance.

    Let’s fast forward to 2009. James Comey leaves the Justice Department to go and cash-in at Lockheed Martin.

    Hillary Clinton is running the State Department, on her own personal email server.

    The Uranium One “issue” comes to the attention of the Hillary. Like all good public servants do, you know looking out for America’s best interest, she decides to support the decision and approve the sale of 20% of US Uranium to no other than, the Russians.

    Now you would think that this is a fairly straight up deal, except it wasn’t, I question what did the People get out of it?? Oddly enough, prior to the sales approval, Bill Clinton goes to Moscow, gets paid 500K for a one-hour speech then meets with Vladimir Putin at his home for a few hours.

    Ok, no big deal right? Well, not so fast, the FBI had a mole inside this scheme.

    Guess who was the FBI Director during this time frame? Yep, Robert Mueller. He requested the State Department allow himself to deliver a Uranium Sample to Moscow in 2009, under the guise of a “sting” operation – (see leaked secret cable 09STATE38943).. while it is never clear if Mueller did deliver the sample, the “implication” is there ..

    Guess who was handling that case within the Justice Department out of the US Attorney’s Office in Maryland ?? No other than, Rod Rosenstein.

    Remember the “informant” inside the FBI ---- Guess what happened to the informant? Department of Justice placed a GAG order on him and threatened to lock him up if he spoke about the Uranium Deal. Personally, I have to question how does 20% of the most strategic asset of the United States of America end up in Russian hands??? The FBI had an informant, a mole providing inside information to the FBI on the criminal enterprise and NOTHING happens, except to the informant – Strange !!

    Guess what happened soon after the sale was approved? … 145 million dollars in “donations” made their way into the Clinton Foundation from entities directly connected to the Uranium One deal.

    Guess who was still at the Internal Revenue Service working the Charitable Division?

    No other than, Lois Lerner. Ok, that’s all just another series of coincidences, nothing to see here, right? Let’s fast forward to 2015.

    Due to a series of tragic events in Benghazi and after the nine “investigations” the House, Senate and at State Department, Trey Gowdy who was running the 10th investigation as Chairman of the Select Committee on Benghazi, discovers that the Hillary ran the State Department on an unclassified, unauthorized, outlaw personal email server.

    He also discovered that none of those emails had been turned over when she departed her “Public Service” as Secretary of State which was required by law.

    He also discovered that there was Top Secret information contained within her personally archived email. Sparing you the State Departments cover up, the nostrums they floated, the delay tactics that were employed and the outright lies that were spewed forth from the necks of the Kerry State Department, they did everything humanly possible to cover for Hillary.

    Guess who became FBI Director in 2013? Guess who secured 17 no bid contracts for his employer (Lockheed Martin) with the State Department and was rewarded with a six million dollar thank you present when he departed his employer. No other than James Comey. Folks if I did this when I worked for the government, I would have been locked up – The State Department didn’t even comply with the EEO and small business requirements the government places on all Request For Proposals (RFP) on contracts -- It amazes me how all those no-bids just went right through at State – simply amazing and no Inspector General investigation !!

    Next after leaving the private sector Comey is the FBI Director in charge of the “Clinton Email Investigation” after of course his FBI Investigates the Lois Lerner “Matter” at the Internal Revenue Service and exonerates her. Nope couldn’t find any crimes there. Nothing here to report --

    Then of all surprises, in April 2016, James Comey drafts an exoneration letter of Hillary Rodham Clinton, meanwhile the DOJ is handing out immunity deals like candy on Halloween.

    The DOJ didn’t even convene a Grand Jury. Like a lightning bolt of statistical impossibility, like a miracle from God himself, like the true “Gangsta” Homey is, James steps out into the cameras of an awaiting press conference on July the 8th of 2016 and exonerates the Hillary from any wrongdoing. As I’ve said many times, July 8, 2016 is the date that will live in infamy of the American Justice System ..

    Can you see the pattern?

    It goes on and on, Rosenstein becomes Asst. Attorney General, Comey gets fired based upon a letter by Rosenstein, Comey leaks government information to the press, Mueller is assigned to the Russian Investigation witch hunt by Rosenstein to provide cover for decades of malfeasance within the FBI and DOJ and the story continues.

    FISA Abuse, political espionage..... pick a crime, any crime, chances are...... this group and a few others did it.

    All the same players.

    All compromised and conflicted.

    All working fervently to NOT go to jail themselves.

    All connected in one way or another to the Clinton's.

    They are like battery acid, they corrode and corrupt everything they touch.

    How many lives have the Clinton’s destroyed?

    As of this writing, the Clinton Foundation, in its 20+ years of operation of being the largest International Charity Fraud in the history of mankind, has never been audited by the Internal Revenue Service.

    Let us not forget that Comey's brother works for DLA Piper, the law firm that does the Clinton Foundation's taxes.

    More on Mueller for renfro, who seems to think that Mueller has some kind of integrity hidden somewhere:

    http://themillenniumreport.com/2017/05/robert-mueller-the-old-fixer-is-back-in-town/

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  • "As one of the conditions of considering publication of this article, Ron Unz has required me to personally apologize to commenter Rurik for having previously threatened to "dox" him based on our private correspondence. I am therefore providing that apology, and also sincerely promising to make no such threats nor take such actions against him...
  • @Ngo Ng
    What's your evidence that they were "clearly reading from a script"?

    He just got through saying that he read it in a book.

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  • @Steve Gittelson

    What’s pathetic here is that you think you’re being funny.
     
    What's pathetic is that you conspiracy wackadoodles thinks it makes any difference if any of it IS a product of conspiracy. It doesn't.

    Fine, let's say the 9/11 events are products of conspiracy. Let's say the CIA colluded with Mossad to do it so that America will support and fund Israel ad infinitum. Media foments distrust for all things Arabic. "Hate Islam" reigns, etc.

    So what? What are you going to DO???? How are circumstances and conditions going to change?? How will the corrupted ship of state right itself?

    Heck, personally, I'm inclined to believe the CIA and Mossad had a lot to do with what happened. I think the CIA and Mossad made some converts, provided ideas and support, and let external actors run with it. It doesn't surprise me a bit. Worse, I believe that puneto of a President was in on it from the git-go. Washington is corrupt, criminally treasonous right down to its last little toenail.

    But, so what? The MI-complex rules. Israel dictates at least 80% of all US government policy. The productive class of American citizens is being systematically stripped of all wealth and power.

    So, you want to expose "conspiracies" with a weak sauce of conjecture and Internet gossip? And everything will be fixed? America will return to equal rights under constitutional democracy? The sky will be blue, babies will laugh under the Sun of Freedom, and the Mexicans will go back to Mexico?

    WTF, man? Grow the f--k up.

    So what? What are you going to DO???? How are circumstances and conditions going to change?? How will the corrupted ship of state right itself?

    One useful thing Americans could do with this information is to stop giving them what they wanted out of 911 to begin with. Stop supporting any wars and the next time something big or small happens and they say “and now we need to pass The Patriot Act 2.0″ .. or they need to ban guns, or anytime US citizens are asked to sacrifice their rights, security, blood or treasure as the result of a crisis we can all just say no.

    And yet after the fake chemical gas attack this month nearly everyone is back at it again in the media telling us it was real. I’m assuming most Americans just believe it.

    It’s possible to turn this around. Something like 75% of Americans no longer believed in the Warren Commission by the early 1990′s. And now according to a recent Rasmussen poll 51% of US citizens don’t believe the government’s story on 911.

    This is a good development. Who can be most easily taken advantage of, the credulous or the skeptical? I for one am looking forward to a time when even the conservative Americans who voted for Bush no longer believe in 911 and realize that the justifications for almost every war in the 20th century, including WWI and WWII were all shams.

    It’s not impossible. As Ron Unz himself pointed out that up until about 1949 the standard textbook assumption about the Civil War that most historians openly touted was that the Civil War had little or nothing to do with slavery but instead was to do with northern industrial interests.

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  • Anonymous[294] • Disclaimer says:

    But, look, the origin of the wager was that it was competely inconceivable to Ron Unz that the story would not check out.

    From the snippets of the discussion that you published, it seems more likely that Ron Unz felt it was unlikely that Betty Ong was NOT in the GWHS yearbook, but that it would be interesting if it turned out she wasn’t. Hence the challenge to JR to prove this (limited) negative by reference to the cardboard-and-paper yearbook.

    If it turns out – as JR suspects – that there may have been some hanky-panky with the digital pages (insertion of the name “Betty Ong”) that diverges from the paper version, the matter becomes even more interesting.

    At 530 comments so far, reader interest appears to be considerable.

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  • I have never ruled out the possibility that Russia is responsible for the attack in Salisbury, amongst other possibilities. But I do rule out the possibility that Assad is dropping chemical weapons in Ghouta. In this extraordinary war, where Saudi-funded jihadist head choppers have Israeli air support and US and UK military “advisers”, every time...
  • @tac
    The comment above only shows Ian56's link, but not PartisanGirl's ...

    I'm not sure what happened to the link to PartisanGirl's response to the Guardian article but here it is again:
    https://twitter.com/Partisangirl/status/987386740104036352

    Also RT has an article on these 'Russian Bots':

    https://www.rt.com/uk/424716-uk-government-accuse-bot-russia/

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  • "As one of the conditions of considering publication of this article, Ron Unz has required me to personally apologize to commenter Rurik for having previously threatened to "dox" him based on our private correspondence. I am therefore providing that apology, and also sincerely promising to make no such threats nor take such actions against him...
  • @Jonathan Revusky

    Interesting that most of the photos of “Betty” on findagrave.com were added in 2017, 16 years after she died, by someone going by “paradise965.” Clicking over to paradise965’s profile on the site, I see they’ve added 81 (!) memorials on the site:

     

    Yeah, I saw that earlier. I came across the same thing but it's not in the article because it's not directly relevant.

    But all that is extraordinary, isn't it? All these murky events and there is a set of people adding virtual memorials for all these alleged victims on that site!

    I almost thought the other commenters had you with this “Betty Ng” (admittedly, facial recognition isn’t my strength), until I saw that. You’d think they’d at least bother to create different usernames for the different events!

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  • During the bombing of Baghdad in January 1991 I went with other journalists on a government-organised trip to what they claimed was the remains of a baby milk plant at Abu Ghraib which the US had just destroyed, saying that it was really a biological warfare facility. Walking around the wreckage, I found a smashed-up...
  • Patrick Cockburn is the same guy who claimed without any evidence that the Syrian government was behind this year and last year’s chemical attacks. Now he says beware of people who claim to know what’s going on in Syria. Sounds like he’s trying to rehabilitate himself.

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  • "As one of the conditions of considering publication of this article, Ron Unz has required me to personally apologize to commenter Rurik for having previously threatened to "dox" him based on our private correspondence. I am therefore providing that apology, and also sincerely promising to make no such threats nor take such actions against him...
  • @DESERT FOX
    The attack on 911 was done by Israel and the deep state ziocons and no planes were used only holograms of planes, the WTC was hit with directed energy weapons and 7 WTC buildings were destroyed.

    The pentagon was a preplanted charge ie no plane or missile hit the pentagon.

    Check Dr. Judy Wood.com for details and check the youtube videos the John Lear.

    The attack on 911 was done by Israel and the deep state ziocons

    Agreed on this only. Nothing else you said seems reasonable or even necessary. Stay away from Judy Wood. I suspect someone is paying her to be that obnoxious.

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  • @Steve Gittelson

    NIST admitted in their study and analysis of WTC7 that it fell at free-fall for 2.25 seconds or roughly 8 stories.
     
    Let me give you just a trifling bit of assistance with your wild-eyed horror at the thought of NIST making a statement without absolute qualification on all physical phenomena related .... : NOTHING falls in atmosphere as pure "free fall". NOTHING. Got that?

    Yes, I know ... that just means NIST was part of the conspiracy.

    Oh, lord, why am I talking to loons?

    There, there, everyone knows that nothing “perfect” exists anywhere, not even a perfect vacuum in outer space where there is at least a molecule of something every cubic yard or so. So of course, the buildings did not fall in “perfect free fall.” There was some air resistance. “Free fall” is just a manner of speaking to say that they fell because they were demolished with a controlled demolition, that’ s all. And of course, it was not a “perfectly” controlled demolition either, but it did the job.

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  • @Brabantian
    Italy's former President, Francesco Cossiga, flat-out told Italy's largest newspaper, the Corriere della Serra, that major governments in Europe all privately know, that 9-11 was run by USA & Mossad
    http://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/2818/217/original.jpg

    Thanks, if anyone wants a link:

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/ex-italian-president-intel-agencies-know-9-11-an-inside-job/7550

    Former Italian President and the man who revealed the existence of Operation Gladio, Francesco Cossiga, has gone public on 9/11, telling Italy’s most respected newspaper that the attacks were run by the CIA and Mossad and that this was common knowledge amongst global intelligence agencies.

    Cossiga was elected President of Italian Senate in July 1983 before being winning a landslide 1985 election to become President of the country in 1985.

    Cossiga gained respect from opposition parties as one of a rare breed – an honest politician – and led the country for seven years until April 1992.

    Cossiga’s tendency to be outspoken upset the Italian political establishment and he was forced to resign after revealing the existence of, and his part in setting up, Operation Gladio – a rogue intelligence network under NATO auspices that carried out bombings across Europe in the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s.

    Gladio’s specialty was to carry out what they coined “false flag operations,” terror attacks that were blamed on their domestic and geopolitical opposition.

    Cossiga’s revelations contributed to an Italian parliamentary investigation of Gladio in 2000, during which evidence was unearthed that the attacks were being overseen by the U.S. intelligence apparatus.

    In March 2001, Gladio agent Vincenzo Vinciguerra stated, in sworn testimony, “You had to attack civilians, the people, women, children, innocent people, unknown people far removed from any political game. The reason was quite simple: to force … the public to turn to the state to ask for greater security.”

    Cossiga’s new revelations appeared last week in Italy’s oldest and most widely read newspaper, Corriere della Sera. Below appears a rough translation.

    “[Bin Laden supposedly confessed] to the Qaeda September [attack] to the two towers in New York [claiming to be] the author of the attack of the 11, while all the [intelligence services] of America and Europe … now know well that the disastrous attack has been planned and realized from the CIA American and the Mossad with the aid of the Zionist world in order to put under accusation the Arabic Countries and in order to induce the western powers to take part … in Iraq [and] Afghanistan.”

    Cossiga first expressed his doubts about 9/11 in 2001, and is quoted in Webster Tarpley’s book as stating that “The mastermind of the attack must have been a “sophisticated mind, provided with ample means not only to recruit fanatic kamikazes, but also highly specialized personnel. I add one thing: it could not be accomplished without infiltrations in the radar and flight security personnel.”

    Coming from a widely respected former head of state, Cossiga’s assertion that the 9/11 attacks were an inside job and that this is common knowledge amongst global intelligence agencies is highly unlikely to be mentioned by any establishment media outlets, because like the hundreds of other sober ex-government, military, air force professionals, allied to hundreds more professors and intellectuals – he can’t be sidelined as a crackpot conspiracy theorist.a

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  • So you can’t just start going on saying that these people are repeating the story, therefore the story must be true, because that is precisely the proposition that is under dispute! Can’t you see that?

    Why do you think I can’t see that? Of course I see it!!! The next logical question then becomes, is the entire story false or is some of it false, and if some of it’s false, which parts are false and which are true? That’s what I’m interested in, not your Wager.

    If it doesn’t mean any more to you than the Wager, then why are you even bothering with it any longer? You’ve proven your point, and if you’re not curious beyond that, well, that’s your prerogative, but I’m still curious.

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    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
    To satisfy your curiosity, it occurs to me that the Social Security Death Index might be something to check. It's public record and you have two points to enter: her name and the date of death.

    I'd think that if she's real and she died on 9/11/2001, there would be a record for her.
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  • @Sean
    According to Why Leaders Lie: The Truth About Lying In International Politics by John J. Mearsheimer (Oxford University Press) Lying isn't necessary, useful or even possible most of the time.
    A False Flag 9/11 would require total mastery of US government, intelligence security, police, and most crucially the army, which could always stage a coup. It just isn't that easy to be make a selfish penguin conspiracy work. A nation state is not as sophisticated as a bunch on penguins.

    A False Flag 9/11 would require total mastery of US government, intelligence security, police, ….

    This reflects such confused, warped thinking. Let’s try to unravel this a bit… Think about this question:

    If a political faction did have total mastery over every power center in the country, why would they need to execute a False Flag psy-op in the first place?

    I mean, just think about that a bit.

    You see, there are various proven false flags in history, like the Mukden incident where the Japs had a “terrorist attack” on their own railway somewhere in Manchuria, I think. But the point of the false flag is that the faction that wants to get the country further into the situation in China, they execute the operation to make their case for the policy they want.

    If the faction behind the false flag already had total mastery over every power center, then they just do WTF they want! They don’t need the false flag in the first place!

    Aside from the proven false flags, like that one, there are almost certain false flags, like the sinking of the U.S.S. Maine in Havana Harbor. And so on…

    But the reason for the false flag is that there is a political faction that wants whatever policy (typically some war of aggression that will be presented as not being a war of aggression) and to get that policy, they execute this psy-op to pave the way for the policy they want that would otherwise be politically impossible, typically because most people do not want that policy, they don’t want the wars etc….

    So, the war party that executes the false flag does so precisely because they do not have total control.

    Okay, that’s enough on your plate for now. The above is just like Deep Politics 101. Just think about it.

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  • Anon[198] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jonathan Revusky

    But bizarrely George Washington High School, per your 75th Anniversary Link, contends she did attend their school even though she’s not listed in the Yearbook.
     
    Well, actually, to be precise, the 75th anniversary event would be organized by the alumni association, I suppose, not the school administration specifically. That is why it's a separate website.

    But, look, the origin of the wager was that it was competely inconceivable to Ron Unz that the story would not check out. To the extent that he told me I was wasting my time to even bother.

    So, if Ron Unz reasons this way, it stands to reason that the people who set up that website likely reason the same way. It was so widely reported that Betty Ong graduated from George Washington High School in 1974 that they never checked!

    The fundamental problem here is that the Ronnie Unz reasoning in question is flawed. The repetition of a story does not make it true! That was what, in final analysis, the wager was about.

    So you can't just start going on saying that these people are repeating the story, therefore the story must be true, because that is precisely the proposition that is under dispute! Can't you see that?


    Perhaps George Washington High School can provide copies of her Original Transcripts since she isn’t shown in the Yearbook.
     
    Well, I didn't have a wager with Ron Unz about any transcripts, just about the yearbook.

    Maybe you can make a wager with him on this. (I'm personally tired of the whole thing so I leave it to you.)

    However, if Unz makes a separate wager with you on the transcripts, I would like him to pay me off on this wager on the yearbook first.

    Speaking of that site, further examination yields oddities in sfgenealogy. Several people on that site are clearly misidentified or misspelled: Mark O’Neill has become Mark O’Niel, for instance. Lisa Look, who pays tribute to Betty Ong on the sign-in page, identifies herself as graduating in ’75 but is listed as graduating in ’76. So I don’t think other errors are unlikely.

    You did make a plausible enough case to intrigue me enough to make me waste several hours of my life (which is probably about what you spent), I’ll give you that, but if that’s all …

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  • @Jonathan Revusky

    JR has provided a link where George Washington High School heralds Betty Ong as their most Distinguished Alumnus.
     
    Well, they don't say that explicitly. The main page of that site, specifically for the celebration of the school's 75th anniversary, has Betty up top. She is in a higher position than the actor Danny Glover, or Maya Angelou, or the singer Johnny Mathis, whose photos appear lower down on the page. That is here:

    http://www.gwhs75thanniversary.com/

    Unless that link JR provided is bogus.
     
    Dude, the above site is something I just found in a search. It is a website related to the celebration of the 75th anniversary of that school. 1936-2011. It never crossed my mind that it was anything other than what it represents itself as, because it is beyond my comprehension that anybody would create such an elaborate hoax just for the pure heck of it!

    Do you seriously think there is much possibility that that site is fraudulent?

    Dude, the above site is something I just found in a search. It is a website related to the celebration of the 75th anniversary of that school. 1936-2011. It never crossed my mind that it was anything other than what it represents itself as, because it is beyond my comprehension that anybody would create such an elaborate hoax just for the pure heck of it!

    Do you seriously think there is much possibility that that site is fraudulent?

    Dude, chill. I’m not saying you made the website up. No, I don’t seriously think the site is fraudulent.

    You’re making a leap yourself by claiming those responsible for the 75th anniversary site heralded Betty as a prominent alumnus based off of the news stories. You don’t know that. Maybe they did, or maybe they didn’t.

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  • @Jonathan Revusky

    No he should not. You must get a hard copies of yearbooks
     
    Utu, did Ron Unz appoint you as his advocate? If Ron Unz wants to argue that the only way to settle the question is with a hard copy, let him show up and make the argument. But there is no point in arguing with you!

    The digital copy can be altered by people like you.
     
    No, it can't. The digital copy is up there on the classmates.com site. I have no way of altering it. (Maybe somebody else has the means to alter that, but NOT ME!)

    You're just talking shit and obviously doing so out of personal hostility towards me. Be hostile towards me, fine, but find some legitimate arguments if you can. Don't just start picking up random shit and flinging it at me like a monkey. (Though, okay, I suppose you can't help it, it's in your nature...)


    It is possible you did tin order to swindle Ron Unz.
     
    Well, it's not possible because I cannot alter the version on the classmates.com website. Anybody can sign up for an account there and peruse the yearbooks. The graphics in the article are just screenshots I took when doing so. Anybody can do that. When I sent Unz the email outlining what I had found out, I gave him the URL's to do so but pointed out that you need to sign in with a (free) account to do that. That's all. But it's easy to do so. Actually, here is the URL for the page with "Black Betty" on it.

    http://www.classmates.com/siteui/yearbooks/4182821566?page=157&searchTerm=betty&yearbookViewerEnabled=true&swipeEnabled=true

    But if you don't have an account, it redirects you to a login page and you need to sign up for an account. You do that and log in and try that URL and you'll see. But you would know that if you weren't such a pathetic bullshitter, because you would have gone through those steps.

    And the whole idea that I have some project of swindling Unz is preposterous! What is this? The classic swindle where you induce somebody to wager $10,000 that somebody is in a yearbook??!!

    Sure, that's a classic confidence trick, up there with selling people swamp land in Florida!


    He clearly stated (presuming that what you cite indeed came from his email) that you should spend $500 or so and get the hard copy.
     
    That is basically nonsense. Ron was just thinking out loud about how I could get my hands on a yearbook, that's all. There was no requirement that I spend $500 to get one! Like, suppose I was in Frisco and happened on the yearbook in a box of old junk at a garage sale and somebody sold it to me for $1. Are you saying that this would be no good because there was a requirement for me to spend $500 on the yearbook?

    This is just all such nonsense. And even if it were not such nonsense, it would be a waste of time to argue with you or anybody else here who is NOT Ron Unz! Unz did not appoint you as his advocate! If he wants to show up and argue that he did not lose the wager because of blah blah blah, then let him show up and argue the case. And if he declines to do that, then he has OBVIOUSLY conceded the wager. The wager was about whether this person, the Betty Ong who made the phone call on 9/11, the Chinese flight attendant, is in the yearbook. She clearly is NOT!

    That is basically nonsense. Ron was just thinking out loud about how I could get my hands on a yearbook, that’s all. There was no requirement that I spend $500 to get one!

    Are you for real? Do you really believe there was a formal bet and now it is you who can interpret what ever was written in emails between you and RU to your advantage? I still thought a bit (not much but a tiny bit) more about you thinking that perhaps you are interested in finding some facts about Betty Ong but it looks like you just want the money because RU happened to inadvertently utter the amount of $10k and actually you believe that you deserve it. What a chutzpah!

    Ron Unz definitively should not pay you anything, though as I wrote earlier it would be nice if he hired a PI to investigate existence of Betty Ong. And definitively he should not engage in personal communication with you. Nobody should.

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  • @Sean
    According to Why Leaders Lie: The Truth About Lying In International Politics by John J. Mearsheimer (Oxford University Press) Lying isn't necessary, useful or even possible most of the time.
    A False Flag 9/11 would require total mastery of US government, intelligence security, police, and most crucially the army, which could always stage a coup. It just isn't that easy to be make a selfish penguin conspiracy work. A nation state is not as sophisticated as a bunch on penguins.

    Sorry I engaged you. I forgot you are an idiot after all.

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    • Replies: @L.K
    It takes an idiot, like you, to recognize another fucking idiot, like sean.

    Both of you are also pathetic liars and trolls.
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  • @Jonathan Revusky

    But bizarrely George Washington High School, per your 75th Anniversary Link, contends she did attend their school even though she’s not listed in the Yearbook.
     
    Well, actually, to be precise, the 75th anniversary event would be organized by the alumni association, I suppose, not the school administration specifically. That is why it's a separate website.

    But, look, the origin of the wager was that it was competely inconceivable to Ron Unz that the story would not check out. To the extent that he told me I was wasting my time to even bother.

    So, if Ron Unz reasons this way, it stands to reason that the people who set up that website likely reason the same way. It was so widely reported that Betty Ong graduated from George Washington High School in 1974 that they never checked!

    The fundamental problem here is that the Ronnie Unz reasoning in question is flawed. The repetition of a story does not make it true! That was what, in final analysis, the wager was about.

    So you can't just start going on saying that these people are repeating the story, therefore the story must be true, because that is precisely the proposition that is under dispute! Can't you see that?


    Perhaps George Washington High School can provide copies of her Original Transcripts since she isn’t shown in the Yearbook.
     
    Well, I didn't have a wager with Ron Unz about any transcripts, just about the yearbook.

    Maybe you can make a wager with him on this. (I'm personally tired of the whole thing so I leave it to you.)

    However, if Unz makes a separate wager with you on the transcripts, I would like him to pay me off on this wager on the yearbook first.

    I’m not disputing the verity or specifics of the Wager. I’m genuinely interested in this and in getting to the bottom of it. The Wager part of it, for me at least, is non-essential. For you, yes, I realize, $10,000 is nothing to sneeze at and it’s also a matter of principle. I understand, but I have no dog in that fight.

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    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
    Cold N. Holefield commented:
    "The Wager part of it, for me at least, is non-essential. For you, yes, I realize, $10,000 is nothing to sneeze at and it’s also a matter of principle."

    Hi Cold N. Holefield,

    Agreed, above, and thanks for writing such practical sense!

    Ideally, Jon Revusky's article was written for a principled purpose.

    I trust J.R. did the work as a result of having made a choice between the forces of enlightenment & truth versus those of endarkenment & lies.

    For me, on the bright side, the anecdotal Unz / Revusky "wager" proliferates comments, but I'd like to see both scholarly men "pool" what is now apparent about the Phantom of The Flight 11 Opera, Betty Ong.

    P.S.:
    Terrific literary "screen name" pun, Cold N. Holefield! Thanks!
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  • @Sean
    Revusky would need to have put up his own money for there to be an actual wager. The bet never really existed at all except in his narrative. Bad Betty.

    Revusky would need to have put up his own money for there to be an actual wager.

    My side of the wager was to put in the work to verify this.

    At various times, Ron stated that he was 99.99% certain that all the details about Betty Ong’s life would check out, i.e. nothing to see here. Okay, the 99.99% could just be a figure of speech, but if you do take that literally, that means that a bet of $10,000 against one dollar would be statistically a “fair bet”. And one dollar, to all intents and purposes, is just nothing.

    In any case, I certainly did a lot more than one dollar’s worth of effort to put the information here together!

    The bet never really existed at all except in his narrative.

    Well, although Ron has been quite a dick about this whole thing, he never attempted to deny, either in private or in public, that the wager existed.

    Now, if Ron now wants to change his position (even though I have private emails over the last couple of weeks where Ron clearly accepts there was a wager) and say there never really was a wager, it was all in jest or whatever, then he would have to show up and say so.

    There are all these clowns (you’re not the only one) who act as if Ron appointed them to be his advocate! This is ridiculous!

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  • If the Alt Right is dead, why is the Main Stream Media still pumping out propaganda pieces on it? On April 6, the New York Times published Ryan Cooper’s review of the book ALT-RIGHT: From 4chan to the White House by BBC journalist Mike Wendling. (The black, white, and red color pattern on the cover...
  • Whoever it was that created the hugely successful (i.e., effective) “It’s Okay To Be White“ meme is, in my humble opinion, a sort of Michelangelo of Memes

    Actually the Martin Luther: the launch of IOTBW’s postering operation coincided with the 95 Theses quincentenary.

    Major sh!tposting against a moribund cathedral (or synagogue) doesn’t have to be complicated to be effective.

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  • "As one of the conditions of considering publication of this article, Ron Unz has required me to personally apologize to commenter Rurik for having previously threatened to "dox" him based on our private correspondence. I am therefore providing that apology, and also sincerely promising to make no such threats nor take such actions against him...
  • @Tyrion 2
    If there's a girl who looks the same, graduated at the same time, cannot be identified as a different person, has the same English first name and has the same Chinese surname then she surely is the same whatever small and understandable typo may have been made in a student produced yearbook.

    Until Revusky discounts this perfectly sensible set of inferences he cannot be said to have won the bet. A one letter transliteration mistake is hum drum. All of the conspiracy freaks keep ignoring this...I assume because they have no answer to it.

    Revusky would need to have put up his own money for there to be an actual wager. The bet never really existed at all except in his narrative. Bad Betty.

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    • Replies: @Jonathan Revusky

    Revusky would need to have put up his own money for there to be an actual wager.
     
    My side of the wager was to put in the work to verify this.

    At various times, Ron stated that he was 99.99% certain that all the details about Betty Ong's life would check out, i.e. nothing to see here. Okay, the 99.99% could just be a figure of speech, but if you do take that literally, that means that a bet of $10,000 against one dollar would be statistically a "fair bet". And one dollar, to all intents and purposes, is just nothing.

    In any case, I certainly did a lot more than one dollar's worth of effort to put the information here together!

    The bet never really existed at all except in his narrative.
     
    Well, although Ron has been quite a dick about this whole thing, he never attempted to deny, either in private or in public, that the wager existed.

    Now, if Ron now wants to change his position (even though I have private emails over the last couple of weeks where Ron clearly accepts there was a wager) and say there never really was a wager, it was all in jest or whatever, then he would have to show up and say so.

    There are all these clowns (you're not the only one) who act as if Ron appointed them to be his advocate! This is ridiculous!
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  • @Cold N. Holefield

    Anyway, I am not the one who claims that Betty Ong went to this school. (I kinda doubt it frankly.) I’m just checking a fact that appeared in a lot of different places in the MSM. And Ron’s wager, of course, was based on the idea that Ronnie can’t conceive of such a widely reported “fact” not being so! So he never thought his $10,000 was at any real risk! (Think again, Ronnie…)
     
    But bizarrely George Washington High School, per your 75th Anniversary Link, contends she did attend their school even though she's not listed in the Yearbook. Perhaps George Washington High School can provide copies of her Original Transcripts since she isn't shown in the Yearbook.

    What is it with the Chinese and these Terrorist Spectacle Events? Dun Meng's claim he was carjacked by the alleged Boston Bombers is also a bizarre story. And then we have the steel from the World Trade Center site being quickly disposed of to a Chinese Company, Baosteel. At least they were smart enough not to sell it to an Israeli Company. That would have been a bit too audacious, I suppose.

    Mangled WTC Steel Bought By China

    On a lighter note, nobody names their daughters Betty anymore. Or Barbara. Thank goodness.

    But bizarrely George Washington High School, per your 75th Anniversary Link, contends she did attend their school even though she’s not listed in the Yearbook.

    Well, actually, to be precise, the 75th anniversary event would be organized by the alumni association, I suppose, not the school administration specifically. That is why it’s a separate website.

    But, look, the origin of the wager was that it was competely inconceivable to Ron Unz that the story would not check out. To the extent that he told me I was wasting my time to even bother.

    So, if Ron Unz reasons this way, it stands to reason that the people who set up that website likely reason the same way. It was so widely reported that Betty Ong graduated from George Washington High School in 1974 that they never checked!

    The fundamental problem here is that the Ronnie Unz reasoning in question is flawed. The repetition of a story does not make it true! That was what, in final analysis, the wager was about.

    So you can’t just start going on saying that these people are repeating the story, therefore the story must be true, because that is precisely the proposition that is under dispute! Can’t you see that?

    Perhaps George Washington High School can provide copies of her Original Transcripts since she isn’t shown in the Yearbook.

    Well, I didn’t have a wager with Ron Unz about any transcripts, just about the yearbook.

    Maybe you can make a wager with him on this. (I’m personally tired of the whole thing so I leave it to you.)

    However, if Unz makes a separate wager with you on the transcripts, I would like him to pay me off on this wager on the yearbook first.

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    • Replies: @Cold N. Holefield
    I'm not disputing the verity or specifics of the Wager. I'm genuinely interested in this and in getting to the bottom of it. The Wager part of it, for me at least, is non-essential. For you, yes, I realize, $10,000 is nothing to sneeze at and it's also a matter of principle. I understand, but I have no dog in that fight.
    , @Anon
    Speaking of that site, further examination yields oddities in sfgenealogy. Several people on that site are clearly misidentified or misspelled: Mark O'Neill has become Mark O'Niel, for instance. Lisa Look, who pays tribute to Betty Ong on the sign-in page, identifies herself as graduating in '75 but is listed as graduating in '76. So I don't think other errors are unlikely.

    You did make a plausible enough case to intrigue me enough to make me waste several hours of my life (which is probably about what you spent), I'll give you that, but if that's all ...
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  • @utu

    I don’t know anything “FOR SURE” and neither do you. No one in this world does because no one may have absolute verification of data, no matter how loudly and persistently they call for it.
     
    This is true. Nevertheless some narratives are considered more true, more known, more factual than others. Truth in this context is merely a rhetorical device. Who poses the truth wins. But in fact it is the other way around: who wins poses the truth.

    According to Why Leaders Lie: The Truth About Lying In International Politics by John J. Mearsheimer (Oxford University Press) Lying isn’t necessary, useful or even possible most of the time.
    A False Flag 9/11 would require total mastery of US government, intelligence security, police, and most crucially the army, which could always stage a coup. It just isn’t that easy to be make a selfish penguin conspiracy work. A nation state is not as sophisticated as a bunch on penguins.

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    • Replies: @utu
    Sorry I engaged you. I forgot you are an idiot after all.
    , @Jonathan Revusky

    A False Flag 9/11 would require total mastery of US government, intelligence security, police, ....
     
    This reflects such confused, warped thinking. Let's try to unravel this a bit... Think about this question:

    If a political faction did have total mastery over every power center in the country, why would they need to execute a False Flag psy-op in the first place?

    I mean, just think about that a bit.

    You see, there are various proven false flags in history, like the Mukden incident where the Japs had a "terrorist attack" on their own railway somewhere in Manchuria, I think. But the point of the false flag is that the faction that wants to get the country further into the situation in China, they execute the operation to make their case for the policy they want.

    If the faction behind the false flag already had total mastery over every power center, then they just do WTF they want! They don't need the false flag in the first place!

    Aside from the proven false flags, like that one, there are almost certain false flags, like the sinking of the U.S.S. Maine in Havana Harbor. And so on...

    But the reason for the false flag is that there is a political faction that wants whatever policy (typically some war of aggression that will be presented as not being a war of aggression) and to get that policy, they execute this psy-op to pave the way for the policy they want that would otherwise be politically impossible, typically because most people do not want that policy, they don't want the wars etc....

    So, the war party that executes the false flag does so precisely because they do not have total control.

    Okay, that's enough on your plate for now. The above is just like Deep Politics 101. Just think about it.

    , @daniel le mouche
    I apologize for my earlier comment where I thought we were in agreement.
    Oxford University? They couldn't POSSIBLY be in on it, could they?? THEM, INSIDERS??
    And that was quite a gem,
    'A nation state is not as sophisticated as a bunch of penguins.'
    I'm beginning to think you are indeed yourself a penguin, and good for you.
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  • @Cold N. Holefield
    You doubt JR AND you doubt George Washington High School? I don't understand your stance or argument if you have one.

    JR has provided a link where George Washington High School heralds Betty Ong as their most Distinguished Alumnus. Are they lying? If they are, why would they lie about something like this? Are they mistaken? If they're mistaken, how the hell could they be about something like this? I would think they'd verify it before heralding it, don't you?

    Unless that link JR provided is bogus. I don't know how to verify its authenticity though. Does anyone?

    JR has provided a link where George Washington High School heralds Betty Ong as their most Distinguished Alumnus.

    Well, they don’t say that explicitly. The main page of that site, specifically for the celebration of the school’s 75th anniversary, has Betty up top. She is in a higher position than the actor Danny Glover, or Maya Angelou, or the singer Johnny Mathis, whose photos appear lower down on the page. That is here:

    http://www.gwhs75thanniversary.com/

    Unless that link JR provided is bogus.

    Dude, the above site is something I just found in a search. It is a website related to the celebration of the 75th anniversary of that school. 1936-2011. It never crossed my mind that it was anything other than what it represents itself as, because it is beyond my comprehension that anybody would create such an elaborate hoax just for the pure heck of it!

    Do you seriously think there is much possibility that that site is fraudulent?

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    • Replies: @Cold N. Holefield

    Dude, the above site is something I just found in a search. It is a website related to the celebration of the 75th anniversary of that school. 1936-2011. It never crossed my mind that it was anything other than what it represents itself as, because it is beyond my comprehension that anybody would create such an elaborate hoax just for the pure heck of it!

    Do you seriously think there is much possibility that that site is fraudulent?
     
    Dude, chill. I'm not saying you made the website up. No, I don't seriously think the site is fraudulent.

    You're making a leap yourself by claiming those responsible for the 75th anniversary site heralded Betty as a prominent alumnus based off of the news stories. You don't know that. Maybe they did, or maybe they didn't.
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  • @utu

    However, he really ought to pay off on this wager to me first.
     
    No he should not. You must get a hard copies of yearbooks. The digital copy can be altered by people like you. It is possible you did tin order to swindle Ron Unz. I am not saying you did it but it is possible. He clearly stated (presuming that what you cite indeed came from his email) that you should spend $500 or so and get the hard copy. You did not because you are a lazy bum. You kept talking about Betty Ong for years and did nothing to verify it until you got somewhat motivated by the prospect of the $10k. Still not motivated enough to do something really substantial. You are a lazy bum who never really cared for what you professed. Your talk is cheap like almost everybody on internet on both sides of the 9/11 debate.

    No he should not. You must get a hard copies of yearbooks

    Utu, did Ron Unz appoint you as his advocate? If Ron Unz wants to argue that the only way to settle the question is with a hard copy, let him show up and make the argument. But there is no point in arguing with you!

    The digital copy can be altered by people like you.

    No, it can’t. The digital copy is up there on the classmates.com site. I have no way of altering it. (Maybe somebody else has the means to alter that, but NOT ME!)

    You’re just talking shit and obviously doing so out of personal hostility towards me. Be hostile towards me, fine, but find some legitimate arguments if you can. Don’t just start picking up random shit and flinging it at me like a monkey. (Though, okay, I suppose you can’t help it, it’s in your nature…)

    It is possible you did tin order to swindle Ron Unz.

    Well, it’s not possible because I cannot alter the version on the classmates.com website. Anybody can sign up for an account there and peruse the yearbooks. The graphics in the article are just screenshots I took when doing so. Anybody can do that. When I sent Unz the email outlining what I had found out, I gave him the URL’s to do so but pointed out that you need to sign in with a (free) account to do that. That’s all. But it’s easy to do so. Actually, here is the URL for the page with “Black Betty” on it.

    http://www.classmates.com/siteui/yearbooks/4182821566?page=157&searchTerm=betty&yearbookViewerEnabled=true&swipeEnabled=true

    But if you don’t have an account, it redirects you to a login page and you need to sign up for an account. You do that and log in and try that URL and you’ll see. But you would know that if you weren’t such a pathetic bullshitter, because you would have gone through those steps.

    And the whole idea that I have some project of swindling Unz is preposterous! What is this? The classic swindle where you induce somebody to wager $10,000 that somebody is in a yearbook??!!

    Sure, that’s a classic confidence trick, up there with selling people swamp land in Florida!

    He clearly stated (presuming that what you cite indeed came from his email) that you should spend $500 or so and get the hard copy.

    That is basically nonsense. Ron was just thinking out loud about how I could get my hands on a yearbook, that’s all. There was no requirement that I spend $500 to get one! Like, suppose I was in Frisco and happened on the yearbook in a box of old junk at a garage sale and somebody sold it to me for $1. Are you saying that this would be no good because there was a requirement for me to spend $500 on the yearbook?

    This is just all such nonsense. And even if it were not such nonsense, it would be a waste of time to argue with you or anybody else here who is NOT Ron Unz! Unz did not appoint you as his advocate! If he wants to show up and argue that he did not lose the wager because of blah blah blah, then let him show up and argue the case. And if he declines to do that, then he has OBVIOUSLY conceded the wager. The wager was about whether this person, the Betty Ong who made the phone call on 9/11, the Chinese flight attendant, is in the yearbook. She clearly is NOT!

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    • Replies: @utu

    That is basically nonsense. Ron was just thinking out loud about how I could get my hands on a yearbook, that’s all. There was no requirement that I spend $500 to get one!
     
    Are you for real? Do you really believe there was a formal bet and now it is you who can interpret what ever was written in emails between you and RU to your advantage? I still thought a bit (not much but a tiny bit) more about you thinking that perhaps you are interested in finding some facts about Betty Ong but it looks like you just want the money because RU happened to inadvertently utter the amount of $10k and actually you believe that you deserve it. What a chutzpah!

    Ron Unz definitively should not pay you anything, though as I wrote earlier it would be nice if he hired a PI to investigate existence of Betty Ong. And definitively he should not engage in personal communication with you. Nobody should.
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  • Anon[198] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jonathan Revusky

    the lazy bum Revusky
     
    Utu, you pathetic dumbass... by your logic, if you took your car to a mechanic specifically for an oil change, and he did just that, changed the oil, he would be a "lazy bum" because he did not take the opportunity to rebuild your car's engine!

    The wager with Unz was specifically about whether Betty Ong was in the appropriate high school yearbook. To say that I'm lazy because I resolved that question and didn't go further makes no sense really.

    Now, granted, as the scriptures say, out of the mouths of dumbasses can come words of wisdom, so you do make a valid point about hiring a private investigator. Assuming one really did want to resolve the Betty Ong question thoroughly, I guess that is what one would do -- as opposed to insisting that I, somebody who is not any sort of professional investigator, do it.

    So, yes, I would be perfectly happy if Ron hired a PI to do just that. However, he really ought to pay off on this wager to me first.

    The wager with Unz was specifically about whether Betty Ong was in the appropriate high school yearbook. To say that I’m lazy because I resolved that question and didn’t go further makes no sense really.

    You didn’t resolve the question. Do you see why not?

    I guess that is what one would do — as opposed to insisting that I, somebody who is not any sort of professional investigator, do it.

    You wrote a 4100 word article about something. It seems you are interested in, again, something. But what? If you wanted to cover your “wager” (is it a wager– heads I win, tails we forget the whole thing?) you could do it in one sentence: “I looked at an online copy of the GWHS San Fran. yearbook and there is no Betty Ong though there is a Betty Ng whom I believe to be someone else”. What was purpose of other 4069 words? To convince someone of something?

    But okay, you’re not going to do it. That’s okay. But why get so het up about it? This I don’t understand. Just “Thanks but I’m not interested in pursuing the matter further” would do.

    Then you could get on to more important things, possibly including your next article which would further the goal of the other 4000-word part of this article.

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  • @Anon
    Did you know that there are entire towns and HOAs that aren’t even on google maps? They are mostly very wealthy neighborhoods that don’t want burglars and kidnappers using google maps to target the residents for burglary and kidnapping.

    Over the years I have noticed that every time someone posts that he or she was there that day and saw the crash and the towers come down you claim the event never happened and that you have figured out it was all a gigantic fraud using the internet and google maps.

    Use google maps to check out lower manhattan the east river and Brooklyn. Manhattan and the WTC can easily be seen from much of Brooklyn.

    Thousands of people in New Jersey looked across the Hudson and saw the whole thing that day.

    If you check google maps you will see that thousands could see the whole thing

    You don’t seem to realize that maps and google maps are horizontal and flat.

    But in reality buildings are vertical. The WTC was the tallest building in New York.

    All people had to do was just look up instead of straight ahead and they could see the WTC. Didn’t they teach you that in the Air Force? I believe it’s called elevation

    Ever been to Chicago? The Sears Tower was once the tallest building in the world. It can be seen from all over downtown just by looking up at the sky and there it is.

    If I look straight ahead or down I can’t see the high rises in the Century City business district a few miles away.

    But all I have to do is look up to the sky and there they are.

    I can’t see the mountains about 15 miles to the north when I am looking straight ahead or down.

    But all I have to do is lift my head and look up and there they are.

    You were in the Air Force? Jeez how low can the standards go.

    You don’t seem to realize that maps and google maps are horizontal [sic] and flat.

    It’s amazing the BS you can read on the Internet peddled by morons posing as experts.

    Doofus anon[257] doesn’t know diddley about maps or Google either one, including the fact that there is a 3D layer in Google Earth, and also street view in Google Maps.

    Google Earth now uses an auto 3D scanning technology to produce 3D representations of buildings and other large features, trying even for trees with raggy results, but when the 3D layer was first introduced in 2009, all the buildings were modeled by hand primarily using the SketchUp 3D modeling application. I know because I did this kid of work at the time, and several of my building models were on Google Earth until the auto-scanning technology was introduced in 2012, and all the hand-built models were retired to the 3D warehouse.

    The new 3D technology has the advantage that everything is modeled, where with the old system, if an artist didn’t model the building and upload it to the 3D warehouse, and get it approved by Google Earth, it didn’t appear on the 3D layer. All the 3D stuff had to be done by hand, where now it can be done automatically with 3D scanning, although not every area has it yet.

    In short, you’re completely wrong. Again.

    You were in the Air Force? Jeez how low can the standards go.

    You just talk trash, and shoot yourself in the foot when you try to denigrate my service. In fact, the USAF has high enlistment requirements, and I was in an elite Air Force command. Crème de la crème was the way they put it, and we had nothing but top-notch people of the highest caliber, which is why it gets so dreary talking with a ignoramus like you.

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  • @Anon
    That 37 minutes estimate is only valid from 1 to 5 am.

    And you don’t know her address in Chinatown. It involves a lot more than just the Geary bus

    That 37 minutes estimate is only valid from 1 to 5 am.

    Wow, you just lie pretty smoothly and automatically, eh? Well, you’re not a very good liar though. Maybe you should take some time to think about your lies first. I said specifically that the route was using public transportation. The last #1 bus runs at 1:15 a.m. and resumes at 4:40 a.m. So your 1 to 5 a.m. window is almost exactly when that route does NOT work, because the buses aren’t running then. See:

    https://www.sfmta.com/routes/1-california

    In fact, the the 37 minute estimate from Google Maps on the bus ride was for about 8 a.m. I also note from this page I link above that the frequency of the buses at that time is every 6 minutes. So the commute looks quite feasible. Granted, I don’t know whether the bus schedule was the same back in Betty’s day, but I don’t see much reason to think it was very different.

    But you see, again, you guys just assume that I’m a bullshitter like you. But I’m not. If I check something like this, I check it.

    And you don’t know her address in Chinatown.

    Well, no, I don’t know her exact address in Chinatown. I don’t think you do either. Well, frankly, I have serious doubts whether there is an exact address, since I have great doubts about the whole story of these people!

    I doubt the exact starting address makes that much difference because the Chinatown area is pretty compact really. I took the Golden Gate Fortune Cookie Factory as a starting point because it’s a major tourist landmark in that area. If the bus ride is 37 minutes, the commute is completely feasible. That it takes a few minutes more or less to walk to the bus stop and back would not matter very much.

    But none of this matters anyway. I am saying the above as somebody who doesn’t even believe that any of these people really attended that school. But that would not be because it is infeasible to commute from the Chinatown area to that school! It obviously is feasible.

    Well, assuming one exists, it’s feasible. If you don’t exist, then that is kind of a first order problem…

    Well, on third thought, if Betty didn’t exist, then the commute is probably even more feasible because then she could probably get away with not paying the bus fare!

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  • During the bombing of Baghdad in January 1991 I went with other journalists on a government-organised trip to what they claimed was the remains of a baby milk plant at Abu Ghraib which the US had just destroyed, saying that it was really a biological warfare facility. Walking around the wreckage, I found a smashed-up...
  • "As one of the conditions of considering publication of this article, Ron Unz has required me to personally apologize to commenter Rurik for having previously threatened to "dox" him based on our private correspondence. I am therefore providing that apology, and also sincerely promising to make no such threats nor take such actions against him...
  • If there’s a girl who looks the same, graduated at the same time, cannot be identified as a different person, has the same English first name and has the same Chinese surname then she surely is the same whatever small and understandable typo may have been made in a student produced yearbook.

    Until Revusky discounts this perfectly sensible set of inferences he cannot be said to have won the bet. A one letter transliteration mistake is hum drum. All of the conspiracy freaks keep ignoring this…I assume because they have no answer to it.

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    • Replies: @Sean
    Revusky would need to have put up his own money for there to be an actual wager. The bet never really existed at all except in his narrative. Bad Betty.
    , @anonymous
    looks the same, graduated at the same time, cannot be identified as a different person

    My thoughts exactly. She look very similar to me, although I will freely admit that my judgment in this regard may be off. Maybe it wasn't even a typo. Maybe it was entered in the yearbook that way for some very trivial, as of yet unknown reason. Maybe the different spelling is actually a conspiracy in itself. I don't know what the answer is, and I don't know that anyone has ever even looked into it.

    I just find it amazing that other commenters here are suggesting that the idea that her name may have been spelled slightly differently in some old yearbook (for whatever reason) is ludicrous, crazy, outlandish nonsense that is completely outside the realm of possibility, while the simpler and more likely conclusion is that she never really existed, and is in reality part of a huge, highly elaborate, multilayered conspiracy involving dozens, possibly hundreds of people. All of the people in on the conspiracy are perfectly fine with being complicit in the murder of thousands of innocent Americans for unexplained reasons. Not a single one of these people ever comes forward. Ever.
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  • @utu

    One Bonesman Bush pres to set up Saddam and another to topple him. Could have been a long term plan.
     
    I am pretty sure that if Bush Sr. went all the way the planners would be happy. For some reason he did not go and so he paid the price for it by not getting the second term. The planners or the TPTB were not too happy with Bush Sr., who riding on the highest approval ratings (90%) after the war decided to confront and challenge Yitzhak Shamir but then lost his nerve and instead of turning to American people backed off. Bush Sr. seemed to be very reluctant to go to war and it was only after his meeting with Margaret Thatcher in Aspen, Colorado that the decision to go to war was announced.

    For some reason he did not go and so he paid the price for it by not getting the second term.

    George Herbert Walker Bush, Bush Sr., was at the center of The Deep State for a very long time. As such, The Deep State then wasn’t as Psychotically Insane as it is now. Psychopathic, for sure, but not yet Psychopathically Insane.

    Listen to Cheney in ’94 about the reasons for not going all the way to Baghdad. It’s the one time I have ever agreed with Cheney. This one time. He was right. And then 10 years later he went off his Meds and went against his own sound advice and threw America head-first into The Middle East Quagmire.

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  • Heres the North Tower, watch the corner of the building exploding outward, a good 5 stories below the collapsing top.
    You can also see the ejections occurring much lower from random windows, easily 10 stories below the top.
    How does a floor explode, before the top even reaches it?

    Controlled Demolition is the only way these building could have been brought down. No way fires could take out all of the supporting columns at the EXACT same time to bring Building 7 down into its own footprint. Watch carefully, you can see the windows shattering as the charges go off, right before it falls the charges go off in a perfectly straight line, that is how the columns are taken out in a demolition, fires do not do this.

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  • @Jonathan Revusky

    the lazy bum Revusky
     
    Utu, you pathetic dumbass... by your logic, if you took your car to a mechanic specifically for an oil change, and he did just that, changed the oil, he would be a "lazy bum" because he did not take the opportunity to rebuild your car's engine!

    The wager with Unz was specifically about whether Betty Ong was in the appropriate high school yearbook. To say that I'm lazy because I resolved that question and didn't go further makes no sense really.

    Now, granted, as the scriptures say, out of the mouths of dumbasses can come words of wisdom, so you do make a valid point about hiring a private investigator. Assuming one really did want to resolve the Betty Ong question thoroughly, I guess that is what one would do -- as opposed to insisting that I, somebody who is not any sort of professional investigator, do it.

    So, yes, I would be perfectly happy if Ron hired a PI to do just that. However, he really ought to pay off on this wager to me first.

    However, he really ought to pay off on this wager to me first.

    No he should not. You must get a hard copies of yearbooks. The digital copy can be altered by people like you. It is possible you did tin order to swindle Ron Unz. I am not saying you did it but it is possible. He clearly stated (presuming that what you cite indeed came from his email) that you should spend $500 or so and get the hard copy. You did not because you are a lazy bum. You kept talking about Betty Ong for years and did nothing to verify it until you got somewhat motivated by the prospect of the $10k. Still not motivated enough to do something really substantial. You are a lazy bum who never really cared for what you professed. Your talk is cheap like almost everybody on internet on both sides of the 9/11 debate.

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    • Replies: @Jonathan Revusky

    No he should not. You must get a hard copies of yearbooks
     
    Utu, did Ron Unz appoint you as his advocate? If Ron Unz wants to argue that the only way to settle the question is with a hard copy, let him show up and make the argument. But there is no point in arguing with you!

    The digital copy can be altered by people like you.
     
    No, it can't. The digital copy is up there on the classmates.com site. I have no way of altering it. (Maybe somebody else has the means to alter that, but NOT ME!)

    You're just talking shit and obviously doing so out of personal hostility towards me. Be hostile towards me, fine, but find some legitimate arguments if you can. Don't just start picking up random shit and flinging it at me like a monkey. (Though, okay, I suppose you can't help it, it's in your nature...)


    It is possible you did tin order to swindle Ron Unz.
     
    Well, it's not possible because I cannot alter the version on the classmates.com website. Anybody can sign up for an account there and peruse the yearbooks. The graphics in the article are just screenshots I took when doing so. Anybody can do that. When I sent Unz the email outlining what I had found out, I gave him the URL's to do so but pointed out that you need to sign in with a (free) account to do that. That's all. But it's easy to do so. Actually, here is the URL for the page with "Black Betty" on it.

    http://www.classmates.com/siteui/yearbooks/4182821566?page=157&searchTerm=betty&yearbookViewerEnabled=true&swipeEnabled=true

    But if you don't have an account, it redirects you to a login page and you need to sign up for an account. You do that and log in and try that URL and you'll see. But you would know that if you weren't such a pathetic bullshitter, because you would have gone through those steps.

    And the whole idea that I have some project of swindling Unz is preposterous! What is this? The classic swindle where you induce somebody to wager $10,000 that somebody is in a yearbook??!!

    Sure, that's a classic confidence trick, up there with selling people swamp land in Florida!


    He clearly stated (presuming that what you cite indeed came from his email) that you should spend $500 or so and get the hard copy.
     
    That is basically nonsense. Ron was just thinking out loud about how I could get my hands on a yearbook, that's all. There was no requirement that I spend $500 to get one! Like, suppose I was in Frisco and happened on the yearbook in a box of old junk at a garage sale and somebody sold it to me for $1. Are you saying that this would be no good because there was a requirement for me to spend $500 on the yearbook?

    This is just all such nonsense. And even if it were not such nonsense, it would be a waste of time to argue with you or anybody else here who is NOT Ron Unz! Unz did not appoint you as his advocate! If he wants to show up and argue that he did not lose the wager because of blah blah blah, then let him show up and argue the case. And if he declines to do that, then he has OBVIOUSLY conceded the wager. The wager was about whether this person, the Betty Ong who made the phone call on 9/11, the Chinese flight attendant, is in the yearbook. She clearly is NOT!

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  • @Anon
    Couple days ago I posted that I’m going to San Francisco for the summer and I might go to Washington and try to get the yearbook.

    But now I doubt she went to Washington. 76 high schools in San Francisco Maybe Sparkon can use google maps to find the yearbook.

    You doubt JR AND you doubt George Washington High School? I don’t understand your stance or argument if you have one.

    JR has provided a link where George Washington High School heralds Betty Ong as their most Distinguished Alumnus. Are they lying? If they are, why would they lie about something like this? Are they mistaken? If they’re mistaken, how the hell could they be about something like this? I would think they’d verify it before heralding it, don’t you?

    Unless that link JR provided is bogus. I don’t know how to verify its authenticity though. Does anyone?

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    • Replies: @Jonathan Revusky

    JR has provided a link where George Washington High School heralds Betty Ong as their most Distinguished Alumnus.
     
    Well, they don't say that explicitly. The main page of that site, specifically for the celebration of the school's 75th anniversary, has Betty up top. She is in a higher position than the actor Danny Glover, or Maya Angelou, or the singer Johnny Mathis, whose photos appear lower down on the page. That is here:

    http://www.gwhs75thanniversary.com/

    Unless that link JR provided is bogus.
     
    Dude, the above site is something I just found in a search. It is a website related to the celebration of the 75th anniversary of that school. 1936-2011. It never crossed my mind that it was anything other than what it represents itself as, because it is beyond my comprehension that anybody would create such an elaborate hoax just for the pure heck of it!

    Do you seriously think there is much possibility that that site is fraudulent?
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  • @Jonathan Revusky

    Now, Chinatown is about 5 miles from Washington High. And whether by car or bus it’s a ghastly trip. By car it takes a good hour during week day traffic.
     
    Well, I just checked Google Maps out of curiosity and I had it generate a route, using public transportation, from the Golden Gate Fortune Cookie Factory, just off Jackson Street, in the heart of Chinatown, to George Washington High School, which it estimates to take 46 minutes.

    In general, I find Google Maps to give a safe estimate so it probably takes a few minutes less than that in practice. For one thing, Google Maps typically assumes a pretty decrepit walking pace. I am sure the 9 minutes walking component of the route would be covered by healthy teenagers in a few minutes less than that. The 37 minute bus ride part, of course, probably is (and was) a 37 minute bus ride....

    It’s horrible, especially when it rains. Picture 50 people trying to crowd unto the Geary st bus. Then the horrible crowded awful bus that goes about 5 miles an hour till it gets west of Van Ness.
     
    Holy Cow! That reminds me of the trains that transported people to Auschwitz! Holy shit! Did they have gas chambers there too? Poor Betty!

    Well, if Betty had claustrophobia, I guess she could ride a bicycle. Google Maps gives that as a 43 minute bike ride. And again, it's probably a bit less than 43 minutes for a healthy teenager.

    But hold on a second, what is all this about anyway? The wager with Ron Unz that lies at the origin of this article was based on fact-checking a story that appeared in the media, and that story said Betty went to this high school. George Washington High. Are you saying she didn't go there because it is not feasible to commute for 40-odd minutes? WTF?

    Not only that, this Betty Ong, famous for the phone call on 9/11 (and absolutely nothing else) has now passed into the lore of George Washington High School as their most distinguished alumnus. For example, I noticed that they had a 75th anniversary celebration in 2011 and that had its own website. Here:

    http://www.gwhs75thanniversary.com/

    Look at the face at the very top of the page! And note that some other famous people went to this school apparently but they take second billing to Betty! The black poet Maya Angelou (who recited her work at at least one presidential inauguration) apparently was there in the 40's. Her picture is there but way below Betty Ong's. The singer Johnny Mathis went to George Washington High. (He's not black, like Maya Angelou, but is pretty seriously gay apparently....) These people come AFTER Betty!

    So the most distinguished alumnus of George Washington High according to the institution itself is deemed to be Betty Ong!

    Ain't that something?

    Someone found a Gloria Ong graduated 1972 from Galileo the Chinatown high school. That’s the right name and age of the sister.
     
    Someone found that, huh? Did that person provide a link?

    Anyway, if the Ong family all went to Galileo, why is that school not raising a stink about it? They're not claiming Betty Ong (famous for the phone call) or Gloria Ong (famous for being the sister of the Betty of the phone call) went there. Why don't the various students and teachers who presumably knew Betty and her siblings at Galileo High raise some stink about this mistake?

    Anyway, I am not the one who claims that Betty Ong went to this school. (I kinda doubt it frankly.) I'm just checking a fact that appeared in a lot of different places in the MSM. And Ron's wager, of course, was based on the idea that Ronnie can't conceive of such a widely reported "fact" not being so! So he never thought his $10,000 was at any real risk! (Think again, Ronnie...)

    Anyway, I am not the one who claims that Betty Ong went to this school. (I kinda doubt it frankly.) I’m just checking a fact that appeared in a lot of different places in the MSM. And Ron’s wager, of course, was based on the idea that Ronnie can’t conceive of such a widely reported “fact” not being so! So he never thought his $10,000 was at any real risk! (Think again, Ronnie…)

    But bizarrely George Washington High School, per your 75th Anniversary Link, contends she did attend their school even though she’s not listed in the Yearbook. Perhaps George Washington High School can provide copies of her Original Transcripts since she isn’t shown in the Yearbook.

    What is it with the Chinese and these Terrorist Spectacle Events? Dun Meng’s claim he was carjacked by the alleged Boston Bombers is also a bizarre story. And then we have the steel from the World Trade Center site being quickly disposed of to a Chinese Company, Baosteel. At least they were smart enough not to sell it to an Israeli Company. That would have been a bit too audacious, I suppose.

    Mangled WTC Steel Bought By China

    On a lighter note, nobody names their daughters Betty anymore. Or Barbara. Thank goodness.

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    • Replies: @Jonathan Revusky

    But bizarrely George Washington High School, per your 75th Anniversary Link, contends she did attend their school even though she’s not listed in the Yearbook.
     
    Well, actually, to be precise, the 75th anniversary event would be organized by the alumni association, I suppose, not the school administration specifically. That is why it's a separate website.

    But, look, the origin of the wager was that it was competely inconceivable to Ron Unz that the story would not check out. To the extent that he told me I was wasting my time to even bother.

    So, if Ron Unz reasons this way, it stands to reason that the people who set up that website likely reason the same way. It was so widely reported that Betty Ong graduated from George Washington High School in 1974 that they never checked!

    The fundamental problem here is that the Ronnie Unz reasoning in question is flawed. The repetition of a story does not make it true! That was what, in final analysis, the wager was about.

    So you can't just start going on saying that these people are repeating the story, therefore the story must be true, because that is precisely the proposition that is under dispute! Can't you see that?


    Perhaps George Washington High School can provide copies of her Original Transcripts since she isn’t shown in the Yearbook.
     
    Well, I didn't have a wager with Ron Unz about any transcripts, just about the yearbook.

    Maybe you can make a wager with him on this. (I'm personally tired of the whole thing so I leave it to you.)

    However, if Unz makes a separate wager with you on the transcripts, I would like him to pay me off on this wager on the yearbook first.

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  • Although the memory has faded in recent years, during much of the second half of the twentieth century the name “Tokyo Rose” ranked very high in our popular consciousness, probably second only to “Benedict Arnold” as a byword for American treachery during wartime. The story of Iva Ikuko Toguri, the young Japanese-American woman who spent...
  • I have absolutely no comment on McCain one way or the other; however from 1972-74 I was stationed just outside of Washington D.C. and was a close reader of the Washington Post. Shortly after the mass release of P.OW.s which presumably included McCain, over several days I read several small articles in the back pages of the Post which reported that the military was planning to try a number of the enlisted men for collaborating with the enemy. The final article stated that no one would be courtmartialed after all because the targeted enlisted men threatened to reveal what the officers– who had been imprisoned separately — had done. Since I was a lowly army enlisted man at the time, I was disappointed to learn I would never know how the officers had behaved.

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  • "As one of the conditions of considering publication of this article, Ron Unz has required me to personally apologize to commenter Rurik for having previously threatened to "dox" him based on our private correspondence. I am therefore providing that apology, and also sincerely promising to make no such threats nor take such actions against him...
  • @Jonathan Revusky

    Now, Chinatown is about 5 miles from Washington High. And whether by car or bus it’s a ghastly trip. By car it takes a good hour during week day traffic.
     
    Well, I just checked Google Maps out of curiosity and I had it generate a route, using public transportation, from the Golden Gate Fortune Cookie Factory, just off Jackson Street, in the heart of Chinatown, to George Washington High School, which it estimates to take 46 minutes.

    In general, I find Google Maps to give a safe estimate so it probably takes a few minutes less than that in practice. For one thing, Google Maps typically assumes a pretty decrepit walking pace. I am sure the 9 minutes walking component of the route would be covered by healthy teenagers in a few minutes less than that. The 37 minute bus ride part, of course, probably is (and was) a 37 minute bus ride....

    It’s horrible, especially when it rains. Picture 50 people trying to crowd unto the Geary st bus. Then the horrible crowded awful bus that goes about 5 miles an hour till it gets west of Van Ness.
     
    Holy Cow! That reminds me of the trains that transported people to Auschwitz! Holy shit! Did they have gas chambers there too? Poor Betty!

    Well, if Betty had claustrophobia, I guess she could ride a bicycle. Google Maps gives that as a 43 minute bike ride. And again, it's probably a bit less than 43 minutes for a healthy teenager.

    But hold on a second, what is all this about anyway? The wager with Ron Unz that lies at the origin of this article was based on fact-checking a story that appeared in the media, and that story said Betty went to this high school. George Washington High. Are you saying she didn't go there because it is not feasible to commute for 40-odd minutes? WTF?

    Not only that, this Betty Ong, famous for the phone call on 9/11 (and absolutely nothing else) has now passed into the lore of George Washington High School as their most distinguished alumnus. For example, I noticed that they had a 75th anniversary celebration in 2011 and that had its own website. Here:

    http://www.gwhs75thanniversary.com/

    Look at the face at the very top of the page! And note that some other famous people went to this school apparently but they take second billing to Betty! The black poet Maya Angelou (who recited her work at at least one presidential inauguration) apparently was there in the 40's. Her picture is there but way below Betty Ong's. The singer Johnny Mathis went to George Washington High. (He's not black, like Maya Angelou, but is pretty seriously gay apparently....) These people come AFTER Betty!

    So the most distinguished alumnus of George Washington High according to the institution itself is deemed to be Betty Ong!

    Ain't that something?

    Someone found a Gloria Ong graduated 1972 from Galileo the Chinatown high school. That’s the right name and age of the sister.
     
    Someone found that, huh? Did that person provide a link?

    Anyway, if the Ong family all went to Galileo, why is that school not raising a stink about it? They're not claiming Betty Ong (famous for the phone call) or Gloria Ong (famous for being the sister of the Betty of the phone call) went there. Why don't the various students and teachers who presumably knew Betty and her siblings at Galileo High raise some stink about this mistake?

    Anyway, I am not the one who claims that Betty Ong went to this school. (I kinda doubt it frankly.) I'm just checking a fact that appeared in a lot of different places in the MSM. And Ron's wager, of course, was based on the idea that Ronnie can't conceive of such a widely reported "fact" not being so! So he never thought his $10,000 was at any real risk! (Think again, Ronnie...)

    That 37 minutes estimate is only valid from 1 to 5 am.

    And you don’t know her address in Chinatown. It involves a lot more than just the Geary bus

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    • Replies: @Jonathan Revusky

    That 37 minutes estimate is only valid from 1 to 5 am.
     
    Wow, you just lie pretty smoothly and automatically, eh? Well, you're not a very good liar though. Maybe you should take some time to think about your lies first. I said specifically that the route was using public transportation. The last #1 bus runs at 1:15 a.m. and resumes at 4:40 a.m. So your 1 to 5 a.m. window is almost exactly when that route does NOT work, because the buses aren't running then. See:

    https://www.sfmta.com/routes/1-california

    In fact, the the 37 minute estimate from Google Maps on the bus ride was for about 8 a.m. I also note from this page I link above that the frequency of the buses at that time is every 6 minutes. So the commute looks quite feasible. Granted, I don't know whether the bus schedule was the same back in Betty's day, but I don't see much reason to think it was very different.

    But you see, again, you guys just assume that I'm a bullshitter like you. But I'm not. If I check something like this, I check it.


    And you don’t know her address in Chinatown.
     
    Well, no, I don't know her exact address in Chinatown. I don't think you do either. Well, frankly, I have serious doubts whether there is an exact address, since I have great doubts about the whole story of these people!

    I doubt the exact starting address makes that much difference because the Chinatown area is pretty compact really. I took the Golden Gate Fortune Cookie Factory as a starting point because it's a major tourist landmark in that area. If the bus ride is 37 minutes, the commute is completely feasible. That it takes a few minutes more or less to walk to the bus stop and back would not matter very much.

    But none of this matters anyway. I am saying the above as somebody who doesn't even believe that any of these people really attended that school. But that would not be because it is infeasible to commute from the Chinatown area to that school! It obviously is feasible.

    Well, assuming one exists, it's feasible. If you don't exist, then that is kind of a first order problem...

    Well, on third thought, if Betty didn't exist, then the commute is probably even more feasible because then she could probably get away with not paying the bus fare!

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  • Anon[648] • Disclaimer says:
    @daniel le mouche
    So why don't you be the one to go to the school, get the yearbook, contact classmates, interview them on any recollections or lack of them? Clear things up! Concrete evidence is needed, no more off the internet.

    Couple days ago I posted that I’m going to San Francisco for the summer and I might go to Washington and try to get the yearbook.

    But now I doubt she went to Washington. 76 high schools in San Francisco Maybe Sparkon can use google maps to find the yearbook.

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    • Replies: @Cold N. Holefield
    You doubt JR AND you doubt George Washington High School? I don't understand your stance or argument if you have one.

    JR has provided a link where George Washington High School heralds Betty Ong as their most Distinguished Alumnus. Are they lying? If they are, why would they lie about something like this? Are they mistaken? If they're mistaken, how the hell could they be about something like this? I would think they'd verify it before heralding it, don't you?

    Unless that link JR provided is bogus. I don't know how to verify its authenticity though. Does anyone?
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  • @utu

    Does this mean Kennedy didn’t die?
     
    That what Revusky and the Youtube Yahoos would conclude if there was Youtube in 1963: Jackie Kennedy is a crisis actor and not that good one. She should have shown more grief.

    Well, Sparkon claims 9/11 didn’t happen and the WTC is still there because he couldn’t see it on google maps.

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    • Troll: Jonathan Revusky
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  • Anon[648] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sparkon

    Go ahead Sparkon, use your wonderful google skills and tell me how I am wrong about how to to get from Chinatown to the outer Richmond.

    Your pontificating about cities you’ve never been to is ridiculous. You should be embarrassed
     

    But anon[257] wasn't done yet with his BS, although no new gold frame so far, and nobody knows what Chinatown has to do with 9/11.

    Now he lies again that I deny the towers fell. What a lying sack of you-know-what!

    Anon[257] • says
    April 23, 2018 at 4:44 am GMT • 100 Words


    Because Sparkon denies the towers fell despite various people present in Manhattan or across the river in Brooklyn seeing the planes crash into the buildings.
     

    That's rather devious and small of you anon[257], taunting me from within a comment addressed to Jonathan Revusky, and then following up with a bald face lie. You're supposed to be the guy with the gold border around his BS, not the mouse who squeaked, or a craven lying cur.

    You disparage the Internet, yet here you are, running your mouth, and spreading hearsay, gossip, and big fat lies, trying to forge new internet myths and urban legends for morons, I suppose, and I must say, you're just the jackass for the job.

    I'm so sorry that you are perplexed by maps. Many people use them -- except women -- but you seem to be suffering from the girlie delusion that I should be ashamed because I know how to read and use maps. Map envy yet. Who knew?

    But wait, there's more. Incredibly enough, I have GPS for my car that allows me to enter any two addresses, and the doggone thing draws the route on a little map, and a slightly robotic female voice gives me driving directions. If this is the future, I think we're almost there, but I am happy to learn that you can find your way across town without help, like a big boy. You don't need no stinking maps.

    Now this next part may cause you to chew on your foot, even swallow it whole so you can blow it out your ass later, but during my time in the Air Force, it was my wont -- actually my duty -- to pontificate quite a bit, in writing no less, about places I'd never been and things I'd never seen, except as photographs, drawings, models, and maps.

    'Nice work, as they say, if you can get it.

    In fact, during my service, I had an assignment where I worked in a large room with dozens of airmen, and all of us churning out reports about places we'd never been.

    Did you know that there are entire towns and HOAs that aren’t even on google maps? They are mostly very wealthy neighborhoods that don’t want burglars and kidnappers using google maps to target the residents for burglary and kidnapping.

    Over the years I have noticed that every time someone posts that he or she was there that day and saw the crash and the towers come down you claim the event never happened and that you have figured out it was all a gigantic fraud using the internet and google maps.

    Use google maps to check out lower manhattan the east river and Brooklyn. Manhattan and the WTC can easily be seen from much of Brooklyn.

    Thousands of people in New Jersey looked across the Hudson and saw the whole thing that day.

    If you check google maps you will see that thousands could see the whole thing

    You don’t seem to realize that maps and google maps are horizontal and flat.

    But in reality buildings are vertical. The WTC was the tallest building in New York.

    All people had to do was just look up instead of straight ahead and they could see the WTC. Didn’t they teach you that in the Air Force? I believe it’s called elevation

    Ever been to Chicago? The Sears Tower was once the tallest building in the world. It can be seen from all over downtown just by looking up at the sky and there it is.

    If I look straight ahead or down I can’t see the high rises in the Century City business district a few miles away.

    But all I have to do is look up to the sky and there they are.

    I can’t see the mountains about 15 miles to the north when I am looking straight ahead or down.

    But all I have to do is lift my head and look up and there they are.

    You were in the Air Force? Jeez how low can the standards go.

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    • Replies: @Sparkon

    You don’t seem to realize that maps and google maps are horizontal [sic] and flat.
     
    It's amazing the BS you can read on the Internet peddled by morons posing as experts.

    Doofus anon[257] doesn't know diddley about maps or Google either one, including the fact that there is a 3D layer in Google Earth, and also street view in Google Maps.

    Google Earth now uses an auto 3D scanning technology to produce 3D representations of buildings and other large features, trying even for trees with raggy results, but when the 3D layer was first introduced in 2009, all the buildings were modeled by hand primarily using the SketchUp 3D modeling application. I know because I did this kid of work at the time, and several of my building models were on Google Earth until the auto-scanning technology was introduced in 2012, and all the hand-built models were retired to the 3D warehouse.

    The new 3D technology has the advantage that everything is modeled, where with the old system, if an artist didn't model the building and upload it to the 3D warehouse, and get it approved by Google Earth, it didn't appear on the 3D layer. All the 3D stuff had to be done by hand, where now it can be done automatically with 3D scanning, although not every area has it yet.

    In short, you're completely wrong. Again.

    You were in the Air Force? Jeez how low can the standards go.
     
    You just talk trash, and shoot yourself in the foot when you try to denigrate my service. In fact, the USAF has high enlistment requirements, and I was in an elite Air Force command. Crème de la crème was the way they put it, and we had nothing but top-notch people of the highest caliber, which is why it gets so dreary talking with a ignoramus like you.
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  • @utu
    If Ron Und has $10,000 burning his pocket instead of paying the lazy bum Revusky he could hire a PI to do the research on Betty Ong by getting vital records of Betty Ong and interview some real people and do what Revusky, the great believer in crisis actors and non-existent people never intended to do.

    the lazy bum Revusky

    Utu, you pathetic dumbass… by your logic, if you took your car to a mechanic specifically for an oil change, and he did just that, changed the oil, he would be a “lazy bum” because he did not take the opportunity to rebuild your car’s engine!

    The wager with Unz was specifically about whether Betty Ong was in the appropriate high school yearbook. To say that I’m lazy because I resolved that question and didn’t go further makes no sense really.

    Now, granted, as the scriptures say, out of the mouths of dumbasses can come words of wisdom, so you do make a valid point about hiring a private investigator. Assuming one really did want to resolve the Betty Ong question thoroughly, I guess that is what one would do — as opposed to insisting that I, somebody who is not any sort of professional investigator, do it.

    So, yes, I would be perfectly happy if Ron hired a PI to do just that. However, he really ought to pay off on this wager to me first.

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    • Replies: @utu

    However, he really ought to pay off on this wager to me first.
     
    No he should not. You must get a hard copies of yearbooks. The digital copy can be altered by people like you. It is possible you did tin order to swindle Ron Unz. I am not saying you did it but it is possible. He clearly stated (presuming that what you cite indeed came from his email) that you should spend $500 or so and get the hard copy. You did not because you are a lazy bum. You kept talking about Betty Ong for years and did nothing to verify it until you got somewhat motivated by the prospect of the $10k. Still not motivated enough to do something really substantial. You are a lazy bum who never really cared for what you professed. Your talk is cheap like almost everybody on internet on both sides of the 9/11 debate.
    , @Anon

    The wager with Unz was specifically about whether Betty Ong was in the appropriate high school yearbook. To say that I’m lazy because I resolved that question and didn’t go further makes no sense really.


     

    You didn't resolve the question. Do you see why not?

    I guess that is what one would do — as opposed to insisting that I, somebody who is not any sort of professional investigator, do it.
     

    You wrote a 4100 word article about something. It seems you are interested in, again, something. But what? If you wanted to cover your "wager" (is it a wager-- heads I win, tails we forget the whole thing?) you could do it in one sentence: "I looked at an online copy of the GWHS San Fran. yearbook and there is no Betty Ong though there is a Betty Ng whom I believe to be someone else". What was purpose of other 4069 words? To convince someone of something?

    But okay, you're not going to do it. That's okay. But why get so het up about it? This I don't understand. Just "Thanks but I'm not interested in pursuing the matter further" would do.

    Then you could get on to more important things, possibly including your next article which would further the goal of the other 4000-word part of this article.

    , @NoseytheDuke
    Have you considered putting a classified ad in a local paper or a listing on Craig's List in the Bay Area offering a reward for a hard copy of the yearbook? I would think that $500 would flush one out, assuming one still exists.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Sean
    Well, the US army planners of the first Gulf War are the ones ultimately responsible. According to Bruce Gudmundsson Saddam was not overthrown because the gas guzzling tanks rate of consumption meant they had to stop before nvading Iraq or run out of fuel, others say it was a policy decision at presidential level. I think the US army made sure they would not be sent into Iraq by not taking enough fuel. Or maybe it was April Glaspie to blame:she failed to warm Saddam of the the reaction to him invading Iraq, and he never would have tried it if he had been properly told what would happen. One Bonesman Bush pres to set up Saddam and another to topple him. Could have been a long term plan.

    One Bonesman Bush pres to set up Saddam and another to topple him. Could have been a long term plan.

    I am pretty sure that if Bush Sr. went all the way the planners would be happy. For some reason he did not go and so he paid the price for it by not getting the second term. The planners or the TPTB were not too happy with Bush Sr., who riding on the highest approval ratings (90%) after the war decided to confront and challenge Yitzhak Shamir but then lost his nerve and instead of turning to American people backed off. Bush Sr. seemed to be very reluctant to go to war and it was only after his meeting with Margaret Thatcher in Aspen, Colorado that the decision to go to war was announced.

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    • Replies: @Cold N. Holefield

    For some reason he did not go and so he paid the price for it by not getting the second term.
     
    George Herbert Walker Bush, Bush Sr., was at the center of The Deep State for a very long time. As such, The Deep State then wasn't as Psychotically Insane as it is now. Psychopathic, for sure, but not yet Psychopathically Insane.

    Listen to Cheney in '94 about the reasons for not going all the way to Baghdad. It's the one time I have ever agreed with Cheney. This one time. He was right. And then 10 years later he went off his Meds and went against his own sound advice and threw America head-first into The Middle East Quagmire.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BEsZMvrq-I
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • The Brawl that Wasn't A lie can travel halfway round the world while the truth is putting on its shoes. Mark Twain Sometime a bit over a year ago, I came across an article describing a big brawl that occurred in, of all places, Murmansk, way north in Russia. The story, in the Daily Caller,...
  • @Jason Liu
    "The Outsiders are criminals" is a standard line of rhetoric used all over the world to justify ethnic homogeneity. You hear the same thing in China, Japan, South Africa, everywhere. It's not supposed to be taken literally (by intelligent analysts, anyway). Even if Muslims weren't associated with rape/sharia/acid attacks/whatever, ethnic nationalists would still find some fault with them to use as excuse to reject them.

    It would be clearer and more ideologically effective to simply be honest: "I don't want these people here because I want to live in a relatively homogeneous society. Whether or not the Outsider has negative/criminal traits is irrelevant."

    “The Outsiders are criminals” is a standard line of rhetoric used all over the world to justify ethnic homogeneity. You hear the same thing in China, Japan, South Africa, everywhere. It’s not supposed to be taken literally (by intelligent analysts, anyway). Even if Muslims weren’t associated with rape/sharia/acid attacks/whatever, ethnic nationalists would still find some fault with them to use as excuse to reject them.

    This is a not so clever way of denying that muzzies are overepsented in crime. If there were not as many rapes and murders by muzzies, there wouldn’t be as many ethic nationalist who reject them. This new ethic nationalism we are seeing is reaction.

    It would be clearer and more ideologically effective to simply be honest: “I don’t want these people here because I want to live in a relatively homogeneous society. Whether or not the Outsider has negative/criminal traits is irrelevant.”

    What arrogance, people complain about Muslims being over represented in violence, which is true, and you dismiss that and claim their only wish is an ethnic state.

    You don’t give a dam about the murders and the rapes so you assume
    no one else does. you can see in the hearts of your opposition(the goyim?) and divine their intentions.

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  • "As one of the conditions of considering publication of this article, Ron Unz has required me to personally apologize to commenter Rurik for having previously threatened to "dox" him based on our private correspondence. I am therefore providing that apology, and also sincerely promising to make no such threats nor take such actions against him...
  • @Sean
    Well, the US army planners of the first Gulf War are the ones ultimately responsible. According to Bruce Gudmundsson Saddam was not overthrown because the gas guzzling tanks rate of consumption meant they had to stop before nvading Iraq or run out of fuel, others say it was a policy decision at presidential level. I think the US army made sure they would not be sent into Iraq by not taking enough fuel. Or maybe it was April Glaspie to blame:she failed to warm Saddam of the the reaction to him invading Iraq, and he never would have tried it if he had been properly told what would happen. One Bonesman Bush pres to set up Saddam and another to topple him. Could have been a long term plan.

    April Glaspie to blame:she failed to warm Saddam of the the reaction to him invading Iraq

    Glaspie was used as a chump to rope-a-dope Saddam into bungling into Kuwait, so that the ZUS could act ‘shocked, shocked’, and then disabuse him of the chemical and other weapons the ZUS had given him to use specifically on Persians/Iran.

    she called the characterization that it was her idea to lie to Saddam a “deliberate deception on a major scale”.

    Ross Perot:

    “…we told him (Saddam) he could take the northern part of Kuwait; and when he took the whole thing we went nuts. And if we didn’t tell him that, why won’t we even let the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and the Senate Intelligence Committee see the written instructions for Ambassador Glaspie?”

    Could have been a long term plan.

    since it’s all part and parcel of Zionism, then of course it’s all part of a long term scheme to create a global Orwellian dystopia. Duh.

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  • @Uebersetzer
    There was a gigantic, organised slaughter of European Jews in the 1940s. I did research in two apparently unrelated areas to it and curiously enough, Jewish victims of the Nazis are present.
    1. The Good Soldier Svejk by the Czech writer Jaroslav Hasek. A character in the novel is a Cadet Biegler. Many characters were based on real-life characters known to the author. One of them was Hans Bigler.
    http://honsi.org/literature/svejk/?page=11&lang=en#Bigler
    Bigler's father Eduard was killed in Bergen-Belsen in 1944, on account of being Jewish. It is not clear whether Hans Bigler was fully Jewish or part-Jewish although the latter is more likely - half-Jews generally speaking survived the Nazi era although they were despised as Mischlinge. Hans Bigler seems to have attributed his own survival to an Allied air raid on Dresden, where he then lived, destroying Gestapo records.
    2. A Nazi-era (1937) German film called Unternehmen Michael set during the German offensives of 1918. A supporting role in the film was played by the actor Paul Otto. Otto was in fact Jewish but this was not discovered until 1943. When it was discovered, Otto committed suicide with his wife shortly before being deported to the "East".
    If the Holocaust was a hoax, why was Eduard Bigler killed? And why did a respected German actor like Paul Otto opt for suicide when he was discovered to be of Jewish origin and about to be deported to Auschwitz, Treblinka or some such destination?
    https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0653288/?ref_=tt_cl_t2

    Bigler’s father Eduard was killed in Bergen-Belsen in 1944, on account of being Jewish.

    Uebersetzer, even according to the official Holocaustian narrative, Bergen-Belsen was never an extermination camp. The people who were transported there (the most famous case being Anne Frank) died of typhus and other opportunistic diseases.

    Moreover, the terrible conditions at Belsen and Buchenwald (which, again, are not deemed by even the official history to have been extermination camps) arose because of the terrible conditions prevalent in Germany at the time.

    But really, it would be better to know what you’re talking about. You can’t pull out Bergen-Belsen as an example to support the core narrative of extermination in gas chambers when even the official court historians are saying that Belsen wasn’t that.

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  • @Anon
    Jonathan, if you really want to pursue this I have a few thoughts.

    They don’t come from the internet they come from an original source, me.

    Like non existent Betty Ong and her crisis actor siblings I’m born, raised and lived most of my life in San Francisco.

    So I don’t need google maps or any other internet source.

    Like most people on this site, I picked up somewhere that Betty Ong went to George Washington High on 32nd Avenue a couple blocks from Geary in the outer Richmond district of San Francisco. I lived less than a mile north of that school.

    I assumed that because she went to Washington she and her family lived in the outer Richmond.

    I just read the Wikipedia entry. It says she grew up in Chinatown. Now, Chinatown is about 5 miles from Washington High. And whether by car or bus it’s a ghastly trip. By car it takes a good hour during week day traffic.

    To get there by bus it would involve 2 buses and a cable car. It would take an hour or more twice a day. After the cable car she would have to wait at the Geary st bus stop.

    It’s horrible, especially when it rains. Picture 50 people trying to crowd unto the Geary st bus. Then the horrible crowded awful bus that goes about 5 miles an hour till it gets west of Van Ness.

    Now, why would she or her parents want her to waste 2 to 3 hours a day to go to a perfectly ordinary average public high school when there is an ordinary public school, Galileo right in Chinatown?

    If her parents sent her to Mercy SF or St Rose or Lick-Wilmerding or another private school in western SF the horrible commute would be worth it.

    But to go to Washington? Unless it was a forced bussing thing.
    Someone found a Gloria Ong graduated 1972 from Galileo the Chinatown high school. That’s the right name and age of the sister.

    Revulsky found an inter net Washington yearbook and the only Betty Ong was black.

    There are about 75 private and public high schools in SF. St Rose closed after the 1989 earthquake. Many of the private schools opened after Betty Ong was high school age. Does anyone want to search all those schools? Not me

    Go ahead Sparkon, use your wonderful google skills and tell me how I am wrong about how to to get from Chinatown to the outer Richmond.

    Your pontificating about cities you’ve never been to is ridiculous. You should be embarrassed

    Now, Chinatown is about 5 miles from Washington High. And whether by car or bus it’s a ghastly trip. By car it takes a good hour during week day traffic.

    Well, I just checked Google Maps out of curiosity and I had it generate a route, using public transportation, from the Golden Gate Fortune Cookie Factory, just off Jackson Street, in the heart of Chinatown, to George Washington High School, which it estimates to take 46 minutes.

    In general, I find Google Maps to give a safe estimate so it probably takes a few minutes less than that in practice. For one thing, Google Maps typically assumes a pretty decrepit walking pace. I am sure the 9 minutes walking component of the route would be covered by healthy teenagers in a few minutes less than that. The 37 minute bus ride part, of course, probably is (and was) a 37 minute bus ride….

    It’s horrible, especially when it rains. Picture 50 people trying to crowd unto the Geary st bus. Then the horrible crowded awful bus that goes about 5 miles an hour till it gets west of Van Ness.

    Holy Cow! That reminds me of the trains that transported people to Auschwitz! Holy shit! Did they have gas chambers there too? Poor Betty!

    Well, if Betty had claustrophobia, I guess she could ride a bicycle. Google Maps gives that as a 43 minute bike ride. And again, it’s probably a bit less than 43 minutes for a healthy teenager.

    But hold on a second, what is all this about anyway? The wager with Ron Unz that lies at the origin of this article was based on fact-checking a story that appeared in the media, and that story said Betty went to this high school. George Washington High. Are you saying she didn’t go there because it is not feasible to commute for 40-odd minutes? WTF?

    Not only that, this Betty Ong, famous for the phone call on 9/11 (and absolutely nothing else) has now passed into the lore of George Washington High School as their most distinguished alumnus. For example, I noticed that they had a 75th anniversary celebration in 2011 and that had its own website. Here:

    http://www.gwhs75thanniversary.com/

    Look at the face at the very top of the page! And note that some other famous people went to this school apparently but they take second billing to Betty! The black poet Maya Angelou (who recited her work at at least one presidential inauguration) apparently was there in the 40′s. Her picture is there but way below Betty Ong’s. The singer Johnny Mathis went to George Washington High. (He’s not black, like Maya Angelou, but is pretty seriously gay apparently….) These people come AFTER Betty!

    So the most distinguished alumnus of George Washington High according to the institution itself is deemed to be Betty Ong!

    Ain’t that something?

    Someone found a Gloria Ong graduated 1972 from Galileo the Chinatown high school. That’s the right name and age of the sister.

    Someone found that, huh? Did that person provide a link?

    Anyway, if the Ong family all went to Galileo, why is that school not raising a stink about it? They’re not claiming Betty Ong (famous for the phone call) or Gloria Ong (famous for being the sister of the Betty of the phone call) went there. Why don’t the various students and teachers who presumably knew Betty and her siblings at Galileo High raise some stink about this mistake?

    Anyway, I am not the one who claims that Betty Ong went to this school. (I kinda doubt it frankly.) I’m just checking a fact that appeared in a lot of different places in the MSM. And Ron’s wager, of course, was based on the idea that Ronnie can’t conceive of such a widely reported “fact” not being so! So he never thought his $10,000 was at any real risk! (Think again, Ronnie…)

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    • Replies: @Anon
    That 37 minutes estimate is only valid from 1 to 5 am.

    And you don’t know her address in Chinatown. It involves a lot more than just the Geary bus
    , @Cold N. Holefield

    Anyway, I am not the one who claims that Betty Ong went to this school. (I kinda doubt it frankly.) I’m just checking a fact that appeared in a lot of different places in the MSM. And Ron’s wager, of course, was based on the idea that Ronnie can’t conceive of such a widely reported “fact” not being so! So he never thought his $10,000 was at any real risk! (Think again, Ronnie…)
     
    But bizarrely George Washington High School, per your 75th Anniversary Link, contends she did attend their school even though she's not listed in the Yearbook. Perhaps George Washington High School can provide copies of her Original Transcripts since she isn't shown in the Yearbook.

    What is it with the Chinese and these Terrorist Spectacle Events? Dun Meng's claim he was carjacked by the alleged Boston Bombers is also a bizarre story. And then we have the steel from the World Trade Center site being quickly disposed of to a Chinese Company, Baosteel. At least they were smart enough not to sell it to an Israeli Company. That would have been a bit too audacious, I suppose.

    Mangled WTC Steel Bought By China

    On a lighter note, nobody names their daughters Betty anymore. Or Barbara. Thank goodness.
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  • @redmudhooch
    Oops, forgot the video, Watch this video at 4:20, 5:40, 6:40
    Those are explosions, below the falling top, even the reporters agree!

    https://youtu.be/qhyu-fZ2nRA

    How anyone in his right mind can characterize this as a “collapse” is beyond me. It simply beggars the imagination that people could be THAT stupid.

    “Thus compromised, the trusses give way.” Since when does “giving way” involve explosions and the disintegration of steel and concrete?

    Total, unadulterated bullshit of the most egregious kind.

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  • @Rurik

    to one of these NeoConscripts
     
    blow me blubber lips

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  • @Sean
    I don't know anything "FOR SURE" and neither do you. No one in this world does because no one may have absolute verification of data, no matter how loudly and persistently they call for it. It is not empirically verifiable that a Brotherhood of the Bell type organisation (Skull and Bones according to Anthony P. Sutton ) does not deliberately create enemies such as Hitler and Stalin all the better to forment war and control America. Nor is it "for sure" that anyone died in 9/11, which may have been staged by the cia chief two presidents and a senator Bonesmen Bush clan, maybe the victims were not 100% veritably real people because 9/11 never actually happened.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gulf_War_Did_Not_Take_Place

    The essays in Libération and The Guardian were published before, during and after the Gulf War and they were titled accordingly: during the American military and rhetorical buildup as "The Gulf War Will not take Place"; during military action as "The Gulf War is not Taking Place", and after action was over, "The Gulf War Did Not Take Place".
     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperreality#Simulacrum
    In his work Simulacra and Simulation, Baudrillard argues the "imaginary world" of Disneyland magnetizes people inside and has been presented as "imaginary" to make people believe that all its surroundings are "real". But he believes that the Los Angeles area is not real; thus it is hyperreal. Disneyland is a set of apparatuses which tries to bring imagination and fiction to what is called "real". This concerns the American values and way of life in a sense and "concealing the fact that the real is no longer real, and thus of saving the reality principle."[19]

    "The Disneyland imaginary is neither true or false: it is a deterrence machine set up in order to rejuvenate in reverse the fiction of the real. Whence the debility, the infantile degeneration of this imaginary. It's meant to be an infantile world, in order to make us believe that the adults are elsewhere, in the "real" world, and to conceal the fact that real childishness is everywhere, particularly among those adults who go there to act the child in order to foster illusions of their real childishness."
     

     
    Its possible at the centre of the huddle of south pole Emperor penguins is always the same bunch of free riders, and a secret organisation running the USA stays in power whatever happens.

    I don’t know anything “FOR SURE” and neither do you. No one in this world does because no one may have absolute verification of data, no matter how loudly and persistently they call for it.

    This is true. Nevertheless some narratives are considered more true, more known, more factual than others. Truth in this context is merely a rhetorical device. Who poses the truth wins. But in fact it is the other way around: who wins poses the truth.

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    • Replies: @Sean
    According to Why Leaders Lie: The Truth About Lying In International Politics by John J. Mearsheimer (Oxford University Press) Lying isn't necessary, useful or even possible most of the time.
    A False Flag 9/11 would require total mastery of US government, intelligence security, police, and most crucially the army, which could always stage a coup. It just isn't that easy to be make a selfish penguin conspiracy work. A nation state is not as sophisticated as a bunch on penguins.
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  • @Anon
    Here is Jackie Kennedy after her husband's death. First video is Nov. 28, 1963, less than a week after Kennedy's assassination. Second is 1964, I'm not sure but I think it is January.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GP6XlHFEKNc

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvqH23z9_84

    Notice that despite maintaining a dignified composure and showing grief she is sometimes smiling and is not violently agitated. Does this mean Kennedy didn't die?

    I blame those twenty German air stewardesses he ruptured himself shagging (on meth as usual) at a pool party just before Dallas. He heard the first shot but the full-torso brace he was wearing made him unable to duck.

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  • @Rurik

    If our good host Run Unz is satisfied, you should be as well.
     
    I've finally had an opportunity to catch up a bit with my favorite website.

    Have not yet read all the comments, but figured I'd chime in here just to say that the issue between JR and I was resolved long ago, (at least on my end), but I'm sure Mr. Unz wanted to make the point that threatening to dox the participants to his phenomenal webzine is unacceptable.

    I think we're all indebted to Ron Unz for providing this oasis of free though and expression, (in an otherwise mundane and mendacious world), so I'm just repeating my gratitude to Mr. Unz, and for creating and maintaining and making his remarkable site available to us all. And I'm glad to see the distraction laid to rest.

    As to the article, there were some gems..

    ".. a very nice person, with exceptionally good body hygiene"

    "..don’t amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world."

    and a general kudos to the author for his tenacity.

    9/11 was an inside job. Conceived by Straussian, neocon psychopaths and perpetrated by the Mossad with elements within the CIA, FBI, (others) with a craven and complicit media and congress and 'intelligence' agencies- for the purpose of making the 21 century just as murderous and bloody as the 20th, and for the exact same motivation; Zionism. (Roth$child, et al unilateral hegemony over the planet)

    Any attempts to flesh out these Satanic forces, that threaten the all life on this Earth with their psychotic imperative to rule absolutely, is a noble endeavor as far as I can see.

    If it could be proven that Betty Ong's narrative (like Osama's, or Kuwait baby incubators and so many others) was a farce and a fraud, and that by demonstrating this, it might animate a more widespread demand for more investigative efforts, until we finally create a tsunami of outrage and righteous anger that will come crushing down upon the heads of those fiends and criminals who're responsible, then to this end, more power to you.

    Well, the US army planners of the first Gulf War are the ones ultimately responsible. According to Bruce Gudmundsson Saddam was not overthrown because the gas guzzling tanks rate of consumption meant they had to stop before nvading Iraq or run out of fuel, others say it was a policy decision at presidential level. I think the US army made sure they would not be sent into Iraq by not taking enough fuel. Or maybe it was April Glaspie to blame:she failed to warm Saddam of the the reaction to him invading Iraq, and he never would have tried it if he had been properly told what would happen. One Bonesman Bush pres to set up Saddam and another to topple him. Could have been a long term plan.

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    • Replies: @Rurik

    April Glaspie to blame:she failed to warm Saddam of the the reaction to him invading Iraq
     
    Glaspie was used as a chump to rope-a-dope Saddam into bungling into Kuwait, so that the ZUS could act 'shocked, shocked', and then disabuse him of the chemical and other weapons the ZUS had given him to use specifically on Persians/Iran.

    she called the characterization that it was her idea to lie to Saddam a "deliberate deception on a major scale".

    Ross Perot:

    "...we told him (Saddam) he could take the northern part of Kuwait; and when he took the whole thing we went nuts. And if we didn't tell him that, why won't we even let the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and the Senate Intelligence Committee see the written instructions for Ambassador Glaspie?"


    Could have been a long term plan.
     
    since it's all part and parcel of Zionism, then of course it's all part of a long term scheme to create a global Orwellian dystopia. Duh.
    , @utu

    One Bonesman Bush pres to set up Saddam and another to topple him. Could have been a long term plan.
     
    I am pretty sure that if Bush Sr. went all the way the planners would be happy. For some reason he did not go and so he paid the price for it by not getting the second term. The planners or the TPTB were not too happy with Bush Sr., who riding on the highest approval ratings (90%) after the war decided to confront and challenge Yitzhak Shamir but then lost his nerve and instead of turning to American people backed off. Bush Sr. seemed to be very reluctant to go to war and it was only after his meeting with Margaret Thatcher in Aspen, Colorado that the decision to go to war was announced.
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  • @Truth
    Yo revOO, you won.

    You had to apologize for what you said you were going to do to one of these NeoConscripts, instead you Doxed all of them AT THE SAME TIME.

    The official 9/11 story is not only patently absurd, but so incredibly ridiculous that I would have a hard time believing that anyone who believes it has an IQ over 70.

    They must be those LO-IQ White Nationalist Wiggers another poster is always talking about.

    (heh...heh...heh...)

    to one of these NeoConscripts

    blow me blubber lips

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    • Replies: @Sean
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hAzBTgKUh8
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  • @daniel le mouche
    So impressed with your political acumen, why you even know the term 'nation-state' (should be a hyphen there for future reference).
    Has it occurred to you that nations, even blocks of nations, can be and are run by very tiny, diabolical cabals, closely interlinked families?
    I realize you have read things I too once read and which just seem hackneyed expressions now, your nation states are exactly like people and want only their survival. Yes, that's true--if and only if you know, FOR SURE, what these so-called nation-states are. If they are plutocrats, and they simply must be, then it is true that they care only for their own survival, very much at the expense of literally everyone else on the planet. Adam Smith's 'vile maxim': All for us, and nothing for anyone else. But I'm taking from Chomsky, and feel therefore I am on shaky ground...

    I don’t know anything “FOR SURE” and neither do you. No one in this world does because no one may have absolute verification of data, no matter how loudly and persistently they call for it. It is not empirically verifiable that a Brotherhood of the Bell type organisation (Skull and Bones according to Anthony P. Sutton ) does not deliberately create enemies such as Hitler and Stalin all the better to forment war and control America. Nor is it “for sure” that anyone died in 9/11, which may have been staged by the cia chief two presidents and a senator Bonesmen Bush clan, maybe the victims were not 100% veritably real people because 9/11 never actually happened.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gulf_War_Did_Not_Take_Place

    The essays in Libération and The Guardian were published before, during and after the Gulf War and they were titled accordingly: during the American military and rhetorical buildup as “The Gulf War Will not take Place”; during military action as “The Gulf War is not Taking Place”, and after action was over, “The Gulf War Did Not Take Place”.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperreality#Simulacrum
    In his work Simulacra and Simulation, Baudrillard argues the “imaginary world” of Disneyland magnetizes people inside and has been presented as “imaginary” to make people believe that all its surroundings are “real”. But he believes that the Los Angeles area is not real; thus it is hyperreal. Disneyland is a set of apparatuses which tries to bring imagination and fiction to what is called “real”. This concerns the American values and way of life in a sense and “concealing the fact that the real is no longer real, and thus of saving the reality principle.”[19]

    “The Disneyland imaginary is neither true or false: it is a deterrence machine set up in order to rejuvenate in reverse the fiction of the real. Whence the debility, the infantile degeneration of this imaginary. It’s meant to be an infantile world, in order to make us believe that the adults are elsewhere, in the “real” world, and to conceal the fact that real childishness is everywhere, particularly among those adults who go there to act the child in order to foster illusions of their real childishness.”

    Its possible at the centre of the huddle of south pole Emperor penguins is always the same bunch of free riders, and a secret organisation running the USA stays in power whatever happens.

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    • Replies: @utu

    I don’t know anything “FOR SURE” and neither do you. No one in this world does because no one may have absolute verification of data, no matter how loudly and persistently they call for it.
     
    This is true. Nevertheless some narratives are considered more true, more known, more factual than others. Truth in this context is merely a rhetorical device. Who poses the truth wins. But in fact it is the other way around: who wins poses the truth.
    , @daniel le mouche
    'Its possible at the centre of the huddle of south pole Emperor penguins is always the same bunch of free riders, and a secret organisation running the USA stays in power whatever happens.'

    We seem to be in agreement. And though I certainly don't claim to be absolutely sure, the latter part of the above statement can only conceivably be absolutely true--all evidence in daily life confirms it, if one pays attention, as certainly do the farcicle elections every year or so, as does common sense when you ask yourself, Do I have ANY political power, any whatsoever? What about my state? Or town for that matter? How can we all possibly be ever in lock step with master's agenda, shit and puked out 24/7 right into our brains?
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  • Oops, forgot the video, Watch this video at 4:20, 5:40, 6:40
    Those are explosions, below the falling top, even the reporters agree!

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    • Replies: @Mulegino1
    How anyone in his right mind can characterize this as a "collapse" is beyond me. It simply beggars the imagination that people could be THAT stupid.

    "Thus compromised, the trusses give way." Since when does "giving way" involve explosions and the disintegration of steel and concrete?

    Total, unadulterated bullshit of the most egregious kind.
    , @NoseytheDuke
    Regrettably, I have fallen into the habit of referring to the explosions as collapses even though I've known almost from the beginning that explosives caused the buildings to be destroyed. I shall take greater care to no longer do so.
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  • @Hunsdon
    If our good host Run Unz is satisfied, you should be as well.

    If our good host Run Unz is satisfied, you should be as well.

    I’ve finally had an opportunity to catch up a bit with my favorite website.

    Have not yet read all the comments, but figured I’d chime in here just to say that the issue between JR and I was resolved long ago, (at least on my end), but I’m sure Mr. Unz wanted to make the point that threatening to dox the participants to his phenomenal webzine is unacceptable.

    I think we’re all indebted to Ron Unz for providing this oasis of free though and expression, (in an otherwise mundane and mendacious world), so I’m just repeating my gratitude to Mr. Unz, and for creating and maintaining and making his remarkable site available to us all. And I’m glad to see the distraction laid to rest.

    As to the article, there were some gems..

    “.. a very nice person, with exceptionally good body hygiene”

    “..don’t amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world.”

    and a general kudos to the author for his tenacity.

    9/11 was an inside job. Conceived by Straussian, neocon psychopaths and perpetrated by the Mossad with elements within the CIA, FBI, (others) with a craven and complicit media and congress and ‘intelligence’ agencies- for the purpose of making the 21 century just as murderous and bloody as the 20th, and for the exact same motivation; Zionism. (Roth$child, et al unilateral hegemony over the planet)

    Any attempts to flesh out these Satanic forces, that threaten the all life on this Earth with their psychotic imperative to rule absolutely, is a noble endeavor as far as I can see.

    If it could be proven that Betty Ong’s narrative (like Osama’s, or Kuwait baby incubators and so many others) was a farce and a fraud, and that by demonstrating this, it might animate a more widespread demand for more investigative efforts, until we finally create a tsunami of outrage and righteous anger that will come crushing down upon the heads of those fiends and criminals who’re responsible, then to this end, more power to you.

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    • Replies: @Sean
    Well, the US army planners of the first Gulf War are the ones ultimately responsible. According to Bruce Gudmundsson Saddam was not overthrown because the gas guzzling tanks rate of consumption meant they had to stop before nvading Iraq or run out of fuel, others say it was a policy decision at presidential level. I think the US army made sure they would not be sent into Iraq by not taking enough fuel. Or maybe it was April Glaspie to blame:she failed to warm Saddam of the the reaction to him invading Iraq, and he never would have tried it if he had been properly told what would happen. One Bonesman Bush pres to set up Saddam and another to topple him. Could have been a long term plan.
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  • @Steve Gittelson

    More likely Lebanon, KS or Fargo, ND. He has to have this outlet since he has probably gotten his ass whipped from trying his snark out in public on people who could reach him.
     
    ROFLMAO. I love you guys -- you conspiracy whack-jobs. Fucking nuts from the git-go. Seventeen years go by, the world has moved on long, long ago, yet you focused, dedicated, self-sacrificing seekers after Truth exchange crib notes about phone calls (for the luv of god, tabulating phone calls from 17 years ago, jeezuss!!).

    It is interesting that conspiracy theory loonies each have their own selected homefield -- your preferred conspiracy that consumes your, um, "hobby" time. Some of you fruitcakes are probably still hard at work on theories of who really killed Lizzie Borden's Ma and Pa.

    Go back to your playground. I will leave you all alone now. But, gracious me! what frenetic stupidity! Obsession knows no limits -- long proven, and proven again every day.

    you conspiracy whack-jobs. Fucking nuts from the git-go. conspiracy theory loonies frenetic stupidity

    Once again, when you cannot win the debate with facts resort to name calling. Weak!

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  • @Anon
    Jonathan, if you really want to pursue this I have a few thoughts.

    They don’t come from the internet they come from an original source, me.

    Like non existent Betty Ong and her crisis actor siblings I’m born, raised and lived most of my life in San Francisco.

    So I don’t need google maps or any other internet source.

    Like most people on this site, I picked up somewhere that Betty Ong went to George Washington High on 32nd Avenue a couple blocks from Geary in the outer Richmond district of San Francisco. I lived less than a mile north of that school.

    I assumed that because she went to Washington she and her family lived in the outer Richmond.

    I just read the Wikipedia entry. It says she grew up in Chinatown. Now, Chinatown is about 5 miles from Washington High. And whether by car or bus it’s a ghastly trip. By car it takes a good hour during week day traffic.

    To get there by bus it would involve 2 buses and a cable car. It would take an hour or more twice a day. After the cable car she would have to wait at the Geary st bus stop.

    It’s horrible, especially when it rains. Picture 50 people trying to crowd unto the Geary st bus. Then the horrible crowded awful bus that goes about 5 miles an hour till it gets west of Van Ness.

    Now, why would she or her parents want her to waste 2 to 3 hours a day to go to a perfectly ordinary average public high school when there is an ordinary public school, Galileo right in Chinatown?

    If her parents sent her to Mercy SF or St Rose or Lick-Wilmerding or another private school in western SF the horrible commute would be worth it.

    But to go to Washington? Unless it was a forced bussing thing.
    Someone found a Gloria Ong graduated 1972 from Galileo the Chinatown high school. That’s the right name and age of the sister.

    Revulsky found an inter net Washington yearbook and the only Betty Ong was black.

    There are about 75 private and public high schools in SF. St Rose closed after the 1989 earthquake. Many of the private schools opened after Betty Ong was high school age. Does anyone want to search all those schools? Not me

    Go ahead Sparkon, use your wonderful google skills and tell me how I am wrong about how to to get from Chinatown to the outer Richmond.

    Your pontificating about cities you’ve never been to is ridiculous. You should be embarrassed

    Go ahead Sparkon, use your wonderful google skills and tell me how I am wrong about how to to get from Chinatown to the outer Richmond.

    Your pontificating about cities you’ve never been to is ridiculous. You should be embarrassed

    But anon[257] wasn’t done yet with his BS, although no new gold frame so far, and nobody knows what Chinatown has to do with 9/11.

    Now he lies again that I deny the towers fell. What a lying sack of you-know-what!

    Anon[257] • says
    April 23, 2018 at 4:44 am GMT • 100 Words

    Because Sparkon denies the towers fell despite various people present in Manhattan or across the river in Brooklyn seeing the planes crash into the buildings.

    That’s rather devious and small of you anon[257], taunting me from within a comment addressed to Jonathan Revusky, and then following up with a bald face lie. You’re supposed to be the guy with the gold border around his BS, not the mouse who squeaked, or a craven lying cur.

    You disparage the Internet, yet here you are, running your mouth, and spreading hearsay, gossip, and big fat lies, trying to forge new internet myths and urban legends for morons, I suppose, and I must say, you’re just the jackass for the job.

    I’m so sorry that you are perplexed by maps. Many people use them — except women — but you seem to be suffering from the girlie delusion that I should be ashamed because I know how to read and use maps. Map envy yet. Who knew?

    But wait, there’s more. Incredibly enough, I have GPS for my car that allows me to enter any two addresses, and the doggone thing draws the route on a little map, and a slightly robotic female voice gives me driving directions. If this is the future, I think we’re almost there, but I am happy to learn that you can find your way across town without help, like a big boy. You don’t need no stinking maps.

    Now this next part may cause you to chew on your foot, even swallow it whole so you can blow it out your ass later, but during my time in the Air Force, it was my wont — actually my duty — to pontificate quite a bit, in writing no less, about places I’d never been and things I’d never seen, except as photographs, drawings, models, and maps.

    ‘Nice work, as they say, if you can get it.

    In fact, during my service, I had an assignment where I worked in a large room with dozens of airmen, and all of us churning out reports about places we’d never been.

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    • Replies: @Anon
    Did you know that there are entire towns and HOAs that aren’t even on google maps? They are mostly very wealthy neighborhoods that don’t want burglars and kidnappers using google maps to target the residents for burglary and kidnapping.

    Over the years I have noticed that every time someone posts that he or she was there that day and saw the crash and the towers come down you claim the event never happened and that you have figured out it was all a gigantic fraud using the internet and google maps.

    Use google maps to check out lower manhattan the east river and Brooklyn. Manhattan and the WTC can easily be seen from much of Brooklyn.

    Thousands of people in New Jersey looked across the Hudson and saw the whole thing that day.

    If you check google maps you will see that thousands could see the whole thing

    You don’t seem to realize that maps and google maps are horizontal and flat.

    But in reality buildings are vertical. The WTC was the tallest building in New York.

    All people had to do was just look up instead of straight ahead and they could see the WTC. Didn’t they teach you that in the Air Force? I believe it’s called elevation

    Ever been to Chicago? The Sears Tower was once the tallest building in the world. It can be seen from all over downtown just by looking up at the sky and there it is.

    If I look straight ahead or down I can’t see the high rises in the Century City business district a few miles away.

    But all I have to do is look up to the sky and there they are.

    I can’t see the mountains about 15 miles to the north when I am looking straight ahead or down.

    But all I have to do is lift my head and look up and there they are.

    You were in the Air Force? Jeez how low can the standards go.
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  • @Anon
    It looks like the result of a very heavy weight - many storeys of the buildings - falling on to a temporarily resisting structure which includes a modest but substantial amount of concrete. Not surprising because that's whst happened.

    As to the LIberty isn't it one of the strongest arguments against the extreme conspiracy version that having to kill everyone made it too risky?

    Really? Grab some cinder blocks stack them up, take a few more cinder blocks and drop them on the stacked cinder blocks and report back what happens. Do all the stacked cinder blocks below explode outwards, all the way down to the bottom block? Or do the cinder blocks you drop just fracture and fall to the side of the stacked ones? Come on bud, you can’t be that ignorant. I suspect you are a paid puppet. This doesn’t take a physicist to figure out…
    Watch this video go to 4:20, 5:40, 6:40, how does the top “falling” cause floors below the top to explode outwards before the falling top even gets to that point?
    The news reporters watching it happen live seem to think it is exploding as well.

    The USS Liberty and Lavon affair part of my comment is just to prove that they have done exactly the same kind of things before to sell wars to the American public, and how similar the events are for justifying war based on lies.

    Do better this time.

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  • @Anon
    Here is Jackie Kennedy after her husband's death. First video is Nov. 28, 1963, less than a week after Kennedy's assassination. Second is 1964, I'm not sure but I think it is January.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GP6XlHFEKNc

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvqH23z9_84

    Notice that despite maintaining a dignified composure and showing grief she is sometimes smiling and is not violently agitated. Does this mean Kennedy didn't die?

    Sisters who competed to snare the world’s richest men: Schooled by their mother to seek out power, a new book reveals the jealousy between Jackie O and sister Lee and how they both bedded JFK

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5401615/The-sisters-competed-snare-worlds-richest-men.html#ixzz5DVVlponT

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  • @Anon
    Here is Jackie Kennedy after her husband's death. First video is Nov. 28, 1963, less than a week after Kennedy's assassination. Second is 1964, I'm not sure but I think it is January.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GP6XlHFEKNc

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvqH23z9_84

    Notice that despite maintaining a dignified composure and showing grief she is sometimes smiling and is not violently agitated. Does this mean Kennedy didn't die?

    Does this mean Kennedy didn’t die?

    That what Revusky and the Youtube Yahoos would conclude if there was Youtube in 1963: Jackie Kennedy is a crisis actor and not that good one. She should have shown more grief.

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    • Replies: @Anon
    Well, Sparkon claims 9/11 didn’t happen and the WTC is still there because he couldn’t see it on google maps.
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  • @Beefcake the Mighty
    Great comment as always, but a nitpick related to one I made earlier re. 1984 analogies. The proles, despite their coarseness and ignorance, are the only subjects in Oceania that retain some basic form of humanity. They do not think, of course, but they never did (that’s why they’re proles). They are what they are, and to some extent we all have our baser concerns.

    In contrast, it is the Outer Party members who have willingly surrendered critical thought and in most cases gleefully embrace their servitude. Winston Smith is an exception, but his malignantly stupid neighbor Parsons (who welcomes his eventual arrest due to his informant daughter) is the exemplar. We see Parsons in real life here, in the form of gatekeepers, concern trolls, and other assorted cucks warning us away from drawing conclusions (logical and empirical).

    The official 9/11 account MUST be true. The HUGENESS and the AWFULNESS of it are unparalleled by anything, except for the NAZI HOLOCAUST of 6 MILLION JEWS. BIG BROTHER and MINITRUE are ALWAYS RIGHT!

    THOUGHT CRIMINALS who question the narrative are TIN FOIL HAT CONSPIRACY THEORISTS. Everyone knows that BIG EVENTS shown on TV are always true. Every RIGHT THINKING citizen knows that a BIG PLANE weighing hundreds of tons hitting a BIG BUILDING weighing hundreds of thousands of tons will cause the building to disintegrate and collapse- mostly due to the fires which were simply too intense! The only CONSPIRACY that is true is the one about the 19 Arabs with box cutters who CONSPIRED with OSAMA BIN GOLDSTEIN, who knew beforehand that the IRON supports of the building would be melted by the office fires. We have it on tape, Winston! BIG BROTHER, MINITRUE and NIST are ALWAYS RIGHT! How could a HUGE THING like this be a lie?

    “…in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods.

    It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying.”

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    • Agree: Mike P
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  • Anon[198] • Disclaimer says:
    @utu
    Christine Leinonen

    The crisis actors meme became quite popular among Youtube Yahoos (also called falseflaggots) who after every terrorist or mass shooting event end up searching for the crisis actors in available video footages. Usually it takes them just few hours after an event to proclaim that they found some crisis actors. The alleged crisis actors often will be the only "evidence" they will have "proving" the "falseflagginess" or "hoaxness" of the event.

    The Youtube Yahoos base their conclusions on their idea how people should or should not express or act out their emotions like in the case of Christine Leinonen who according to Youtube Yahoos did not express her grief according to Youtube Yahoos' idea about grief manifestation.

    Where do the Youtube Yahoos get their idea how grief is expressed and manifested? Obviously from movies, sitcoms and soaps where these emotions are countlessly acted by actual actors who learned to act them based on other actors not the reality, extreme method actors excepted who may go to funerals to observe people. The emotion of grief for any singular person is rare and any person has only few occasions in her lifetime to observe them in reality while she sees them all the time in the virtual reality acted by actors. If you watch TV you can see it several times a day.

    Basically what Revusky is telling us is that Christine Leinonen did not act as actresses he saw in the movies and soaps on TV. He claims that Christine Leinonen acted artificially unlike the actresses on TV.

    Revusky, when you watch your favorite soap try to keep in mind that what you see is not real. I know it might be hard for somebody who is consumed by his favorite soap but it is prerequisite for somebody who tries to parse the surrounding reality.

    Here is Jackie Kennedy after her husband’s death. First video is Nov. 28, 1963, less than a week after Kennedy’s assassination. Second is 1964, I’m not sure but I think it is January.

    Notice that despite maintaining a dignified composure and showing grief she is sometimes smiling and is not violently agitated. Does this mean Kennedy didn’t die?

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    • Replies: @utu

    Does this mean Kennedy didn’t die?
     
    That what Revusky and the Youtube Yahoos would conclude if there was Youtube in 1963: Jackie Kennedy is a crisis actor and not that good one. She should have shown more grief.
    , @utu
    Sisters who competed to snare the world's richest men: Schooled by their mother to seek out power, a new book reveals the jealousy between Jackie O and sister Lee and how they both bedded JFK

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5401615/The-sisters-competed-snare-worlds-richest-men.html#ixzz5DVVlponT
    , @Sean
    I blame those twenty German air stewardesses he ruptured himself shagging (on meth as usual) at a pool party just before Dallas. He heard the first shot but the full-torso brace he was wearing made him unable to duck.
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  • @Chuck
    Somehow I knew (((German_reader))) would make an appearance on this thread.

    No he is just a good German on the cuck side . He probably is not ((()))).

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  • @Uebersetzer
    There was a gigantic, organised slaughter of European Jews in the 1940s. I did research in two apparently unrelated areas to it and curiously enough, Jewish victims of the Nazis are present.
    1. The Good Soldier Svejk by the Czech writer Jaroslav Hasek. A character in the novel is a Cadet Biegler. Many characters were based on real-life characters known to the author. One of them was Hans Bigler.
    http://honsi.org/literature/svejk/?page=11&lang=en#Bigler
    Bigler's father Eduard was killed in Bergen-Belsen in 1944, on account of being Jewish. It is not clear whether Hans Bigler was fully Jewish or part-Jewish although the latter is more likely - half-Jews generally speaking survived the Nazi era although they were despised as Mischlinge. Hans Bigler seems to have attributed his own survival to an Allied air raid on Dresden, where he then lived, destroying Gestapo records.
    2. A Nazi-era (1937) German film called Unternehmen Michael set during the German offensives of 1918. A supporting role in the film was played by the actor Paul Otto. Otto was in fact Jewish but this was not discovered until 1943. When it was discovered, Otto committed suicide with his wife shortly before being deported to the "East".
    If the Holocaust was a hoax, why was Eduard Bigler killed? And why did a respected German actor like Paul Otto opt for suicide when he was discovered to be of Jewish origin and about to be deported to Auschwitz, Treblinka or some such destination?
    https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0653288/?ref_=tt_cl_t2

    Cadet Bigler: People Bergen Belsen usually died from diseases caused by overwork and malnutrition rather than being murdered.

    Paul Otto: indeed people kill themselves out of fear of death which always strikes me as strange.

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  • Butcher of Damascus. Gasser of children. Baby Killer of Syria. Tool of Moscow. Cruel despot. Monster. These are all names the western media and politicians routinely heap on Syria’s president, Bashar al-Assad. He has now become the top Mideast villain, the man we love to hate. As a veteran Mideast watcher, I find all this...
  • @LondonBob
    Nothing fake about the German atrocities against Belgian civilians, see Dinant. Anyway Britain was allied with the Tsar so the media gatekeepers kept up a steady drumbeat of pro German propaganda so that Anglo-Saxon America could not aid her sister country sooner.

    Does Belgium exist for any reason other than to trigger British entry into Continental wars?

    Does Great Britain exist for any reason other than to import governing majorities of Pakistani Muslims and generate dossiers on American Presidential candidates?

    Great job drawing up the modern Middle East, by the way.

    Next time you decide to enter a war to keep Germany from becoming the top industrial power on the Continent I think we’ll sit that one out.

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    • Agree: RadicalCenter
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  • "As one of the conditions of considering publication of this article, Ron Unz has required me to personally apologize to commenter Rurik for having previously threatened to "dox" him based on our private correspondence. I am therefore providing that apology, and also sincerely promising to make no such threats nor take such actions against him...
  • @Steve Gittelson

    Let me guess: you are a recent college graduate, a dysphoric and overmedicated Brooklyn barista, probably grossly out of shape.
     
    LOL. No, Val, I am an old, over-educated, widely-experienced, former corporate VP of Technology, and one mean and rascally son of a bitch. I undergradded in Philosophy, so I know the difference between morality at the individual level, and morality at the societal level. Worse yet, I know ethics and ethical systems.

    You do not, and it is quite obvious.

    I know ethics and ethical systems

    As a former Corporate VP, I’m sure you do. You know Ethics & Ethical Systems are for Suckers. Right? Riiiiight.

    I also served my time in the Corporate C-Suites, and Ethics are tantamount to Curtains and/or Shades. Espousing Ethics is enough to conceal the Looting & Backstabbing that takes place behind The Words that serve as Curtains.

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    • Agree: ValmMond
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  • @Seamus Day

    I have more than you have, a man who lived in NYC and saw it happen.
     
    A friend of my mom’s who lives in Arlington, VA, called right after the news from the WTC was breaking, and smoke was coming from what the news thought was from the Capitol, and she was crying and told my mom that see just saw a plane fly into the Pentagon. I was there when my mom took the call.

    A friend of my mom’s who lives in Arlington, VA, called

    Really? Wow. Out of curiosity, did this friend have a name?

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  • @Meimou
    Bingo. Expect the MSM to put a spotlight on this, or at least snopes or trash sites like The Daily Beast.

    I wonder if the Ong family will sue Alex Jones too.

    I wonder if the Ong family will sue Alex Jones too.

    That might be easier than getting the Saudi’s to cough up. How come The Trumpster hasn’t pushed for Justice for The 9/11 Victims’ Families? Obama didn’t either. Funny, that. Except it’s not.

    The Saudi Elephant In The Room

    There’s a reason The American Establishment is doing everything it can to prevent a Civil Lawsuit against Saudi Arabia. If such a suit went forward, it would Spill The Beans, and we can’t have that, can we? Civil Lawsuits are much more lenient when it comes to evidence you can submit and the possibility exists that some of what we’re discussing here will become a part of the Official Record. Perhaps the Saudis, rather than taking it on the Chin for The Gipper and paying, in their defense they expose The Truth about 9/11, or at least the component of The Truth that makes them look rather innocent compared to the Predominate Perpetrators/Predators.

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  • @Beefcake the Mighty
    Great comment as always, but a nitpick related to one I made earlier re. 1984 analogies. The proles, despite their coarseness and ignorance, are the only subjects in Oceania that retain some basic form of humanity. They do not think, of course, but they never did (that’s why they’re proles). They are what they are, and to some extent we all have our baser concerns.

    In contrast, it is the Outer Party members who have willingly surrendered critical thought and in most cases gleefully embrace their servitude. Winston Smith is an exception, but his malignantly stupid neighbor Parsons (who welcomes his eventual arrest due to his informant daughter) is the exemplar. We see Parsons in real life here, in the form of gatekeepers, concern trolls, and other assorted cucks warning us away from drawing conclusions (logical and empirical).

    Good insight as usual. The proles, who do not think much, at least exercise objective faculties of memory and common sense at a very day to day, moment to moment level. Since they do not think much, there was no need to indoctrinate them. The old guy that Winston ran into in the pub is a good example. Not much of an historian but he still could remember when a pint was a pint.

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  • @Uebersetzer
    Magic armour-piercing rounds do not typically weigh 130 tons or whatever the weight of airliners on 9-11 was. Airliners flying into high towers is a sufficiently rare phenomenon that it may be difficult to be polemical about what would or would not happen, but I don't think the building would remain pristine.

    Of course the building would not remain pristine. In fact, I would imagine had the buildings not collapsed, they would have been condemned, and much to Silverstein’s Chagrin, the Insurance Payout would have been much less and an inadequate Return on Investment. Instead, he made out like a Bandit.

    Understand the Buildings’ Design. The strength of the buildings emanated from their Cores, or at least the strength of The Twin Towers. The Jets never affected the Cores. They were shredded into a million pieces before penetrating that far. The most that should have happened is the collpase of several floors around those incredibly strong and secure Cores, but the Cores would have remained intact. The fact that the Cores fell concomintantly with the not-so-strong Perimeter Space is anomalous and unexpected and has not been explained adequately.

    Here’s the base of one of the Beams comprising the Core. It’s sheered and there is cooled Molten Metal showing. Since the building fell pretty much straight down in its footprint, this Column Beam would not have been sheered like this and there is no reason for the Molten Metal. Unless.

    Look Mom, No Hands!!

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  • I have never ruled out the possibility that Russia is responsible for the attack in Salisbury, amongst other possibilities. But I do rule out the possibility that Assad is dropping chemical weapons in Ghouta. In this extraordinary war, where Saudi-funded jihadist head choppers have Israeli air support and US and UK military “advisers”, every time...
  • @RobinG
    Some good news on the home front.
    Yesterday, 30 pro-Palestinian-rights Jewish Americans with If Not Now demanded that Sen. Cardin condemn Israel's violence toward peacefully protesting Gazans.
    The way out of this doomsday spiral is that Israel fairly peacefully implodes, a la USSR.
    It could happen. 2021.

    https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/jewish-activists-storm-senator-s-office-as-lawmakers-sound-off-on-gaza-1.6008583
    Jewish Activists Storm Senator's Office as Lawmakers Sound Off on Israel's Conduct at Gaza Border

    The movie “Exodus” would receive a chilly reception if produced today,

    Arab terrorism was a ghastly mistake and yielded only considerable sympathy for Israel.

    But now that good will has evaporated and only fear of personal, economic, or political retribution controls.

    Now there is much clarity on AIPAC, SPLC, BB, ADL, AJC, HIAS, the Adelson Primary, the JDL, the Liberty, Pollard, Barbara the Spiller of the Beans, Soros, sayonim, neocons, Jewish representation in Bolshevism and radical leftist causes, media concentration and ownership, endless demonization of Nazis, dual citizenship, Jewish manipulation over The Holocaust but complete and utter silence about the Other Holocausts, destruction of basic rights in the name of fighting “anti-Semitism,” inordinate worldwide political and economic control, immigration fanaticism (remember 1965!), Gelbaum and the Sierra Club, the Frankfurt School, the content of the Talmud, supremacism, Rabbi Schneerson quotes, in-group loyalty, Ashkenazis, the Yinon Plan, monoethnic Israel but diversity for the goyim, the Sampson Option, aggressive war in Syria, the astronomical worldwide political distortions of Zionism, billions in aid to Israel for what exactly, fairy tales about Israel as our BFF in the ME, and now outrageous killing of demonstrators in Gaza with hogwash about mortal threats to the border.

    For the truth about Zionism as a non-Jewish phenomenon the thinking of some religious Jews is amazing. Intelligence and astonishing good sense.

    The long and the short of Israel is that the British promised Zionists land that was not theirs to dispose of to solve a problem the owners thereof did not create. Zionistas think some vaporous title to Israel is theirs because some completely different guys lived there 2,000 years ago and then moved or got absorbed somewhere. They have established this patent nonsense by force of arms and maintain it by force of arms. Thus they enjoy sovereignty for the moment but they are kidding themselves if “Live by the sword, die by the sword” doesn’t apply to them. Is there any good will left?

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  • "As one of the conditions of considering publication of this article, Ron Unz has required me to personally apologize to commenter Rurik for having previously threatened to "dox" him based on our private correspondence. I am therefore providing that apology, and also sincerely promising to make no such threats nor take such actions against him...
  • @Anon
    I have more than you have, a man who lived in NYC and saw it happen.

    I have more than you have, a man who lived in NYC and saw it happen.

    A friend of my mom’s who lives in Arlington, VA, called right after the news from the WTC was breaking, and smoke was coming from what the news thought was from the Capitol, and she was crying and told my mom that see just saw a plane fly into the Pentagon. I was there when my mom took the call.

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    • Replies: @Jonathan Revusky

    A friend of my mom’s who lives in Arlington, VA, called
     
    Really? Wow. Out of curiosity, did this friend have a name?
    , @daniel le mouche
    'and she was crying and told my mom that see just saw a plane fly into the Pentagon. I was there when my mom took the call.'

    And yet, with all the surveillance cameras, probably numbering in the hundreds, pointed right there, no video has been released by the Pentagon or FBI or CIA, for national security reasons. But there is one single linked video, easy to find, which shows an almost lightening-quick flash and what looks like a missile.
    And of course, no seats, engines, dead bodies--ever see footage of a real airplane crash?
    , @NoseytheDuke
    No plane hit the Pentagon, unless you believe in The Incredible Shrinking Plane, one that leaves a much smaller hole than its actual size when it crashes.

    "They shall find it difficult, they who have taken authority as truth rather than truth as authority."

    Gerald Massey.
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  • @Uebersetzer
    There was a gigantic, organised slaughter of European Jews in the 1940s. I did research in two apparently unrelated areas to it and curiously enough, Jewish victims of the Nazis are present.
    1. The Good Soldier Svejk by the Czech writer Jaroslav Hasek. A character in the novel is a Cadet Biegler. Many characters were based on real-life characters known to the author. One of them was Hans Bigler.
    http://honsi.org/literature/svejk/?page=11&lang=en#Bigler
    Bigler's father Eduard was killed in Bergen-Belsen in 1944, on account of being Jewish. It is not clear whether Hans Bigler was fully Jewish or part-Jewish although the latter is more likely - half-Jews generally speaking survived the Nazi era although they were despised as Mischlinge. Hans Bigler seems to have attributed his own survival to an Allied air raid on Dresden, where he then lived, destroying Gestapo records.
    2. A Nazi-era (1937) German film called Unternehmen Michael set during the German offensives of 1918. A supporting role in the film was played by the actor Paul Otto. Otto was in fact Jewish but this was not discovered until 1943. When it was discovered, Otto committed suicide with his wife shortly before being deported to the "East".
    If the Holocaust was a hoax, why was Eduard Bigler killed? And why did a respected German actor like Paul Otto opt for suicide when he was discovered to be of Jewish origin and about to be deported to Auschwitz, Treblinka or some such destination?
    https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0653288/?ref_=tt_cl_t2

    Credit is due: I’ve seen some pretty absurd “arguments” from Holo-believers, but this is a whole new level of stupid.

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  • @Uebersetzer
    Magic armour-piercing rounds do not typically weigh 130 tons or whatever the weight of airliners on 9-11 was. Airliners flying into high towers is a sufficiently rare phenomenon that it may be difficult to be polemical about what would or would not happen, but I don't think the building would remain pristine.

    And the buildings weighted 500K tons. No “rare event” speciousness is necessary to understand what should (think bug and windshield).

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  • Wednesday’s criminal referral by 11 House Republicans of former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton as well as several former and serving top FBI and Department of Justice (DOJ) officials is a giant step toward a Constitutional crisis. Named in the referral to the DOJ for possible violations of federal law are: Clinton, former FBI Director...
  • @renfro

    Mueller’s past is so laden with misfeasance and malfeasance that he should have been disbarred a few decades ago.
     
    Wrong. I will take the word of the judge who handled the case over Dershowitz, the legal clown, smears any day. As she says .... “You’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.”


    A Harvard face-off in the court of public opinion

    By Mark Arsenault
    Globe Staff April 20, 2018

    Some spirited sniping between two Harvard Law School giants might be funny in some context, were the fate of Western democracy not potentially tottering in the balance.

    In an Ali-Frazier battle of legal minds, former federal judge Nancy Gertner this week smote celebrated legal scholar Alan Dershowitz in the opinion section of The New York Times, accusing him of falsely smearing Robert Mueller, the special counsel investigating Russian interference in the 2016 election and whether or not the Trump campaign was in on it.

    Gertner and Dershowitz are longtime friends, but the highbrow exchange had an edge. Gertner, a senior lecturer at Harvard Law School, lumped Dershowitz, the loquacious Harvard law professor emeritus, in the same paragraph with partisan mouthpieces Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity.


    Dershowitz, in his defense, suggests Gertner is in the throes of an anti-Trump fever, clouding her judgment.


    Their argument is over Mueller’s role as a federal prosecutor in Boston, where he served in several positions from 1982 to 1988, including acting US attorney.

    The dispute is hardly academic. It involves the Russian investigation and the ongoing probe into President Trump’s associates, which could potentially upend the Trump presidency, as well as the gathering threat of a constitutional crisis if Trump orchestrates Mueller’s removal and shuts down the investigation.

    Trump’s defenders have alleged that Mueller looked the other way and allowed four innocent men to languish in prison to protect the cover of an FBI informant, in a notorious case from the era of the agency’s corrupt relationship with mobster James “Whitey” Bulger.

    The Globe reported last week that there is no evidence linking Mueller to the case of the men wrongly imprisoned.


    Gertner’s column quotes Dershowitz on a recent New York radio show calling Mueller “the guy who kept four innocent people in prison for many years.” Though Gertner didn’t quote it, Dershowitz went on to say, “Those of us in Boston don’t have such a high regard for Mueller because we remember that story.”

    “There is no evidence that the assertion is true,” Gertner wrote, explaining that as a judge she presided over a federal lawsuit against the government related to the case, ultimately awarding the plaintiffs more than $100 million.

    In the “voluminous evidence” gathered for the trial — all of which Gertner read, she said — Mueller was never mentioned. Nor was he mentioned in the submissions of the plaintiff’s lead lawyer, nor in “Black Mass,” a book about Bulger and the FBI by former Globe reporters, Gertner wrote.

    In a phone interview, Gertner quoted the old chestnut, “You’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.”

    Dershowitz, she said, asserted something that was untrue, and — as someone with vast experience on the topic — Gertner felt it was her responsibility to correct the record

    I’m on the other side of the planet but a friend in the Mid-West sent me this and I thought I’d ask if anyone else had seen it?

    Is there corruption in DC?

    From 2001 to 2005 there was an ongoing investigation into the Clinton Foundation. A Grand Jury had been empaneled. The investigation was triggered by the pardon of Marc Rich ..

    Governments from around the world had donated to the “Charity”. Yet, from 2001 to 2003 none of those “Donations” to the Clinton Foundation were declared.

    Guess who took over this investigation in 2002? Bet you can’t guess. No other than James Comey.

    [MORE]

    Guess who was transferred in to the Internal Revenue Service to run the Tax Exemption Branch of the IRS? Your friend and mine, Lois “Be on The Look Out” (BOLO) Lerner.

    It gets better, well not really, but this is all just a series of strange coincidences, right?

    Guess who ran the Tax Division inside the Department of Injustice from 2001 to 2005? No other than the Assistant Attorney General of the United States, Rod Rosenstein.

    Guess who was the Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation during this time frame??? I know, it’s a miracle, just a coincidence, just an anomaly in statistics and chances: Robert Mueller.

    What do all four casting characters have in common? They all were briefed and were front line investigators into the Clinton Foundation Investigation.

    Now that’s just a coincidence, right? Ok, lets chalk the last one up to mere chance.

    Let’s fast forward to 2009. James Comey leaves the Justice Department to go and cash-in at Lockheed Martin.

    Hillary Clinton is running the State Department, on her own personal email server.

    The Uranium One “issue” comes to the attention of the Hillary. Like all good public servants do, you know looking out for America’s best interest, she decides to support the decision and approve the sale of 20% of US Uranium to no other than, the Russians.

    Now you would think that this is a fairly straight up deal, except it wasn’t, I question what did the People get out of it?? Oddly enough, prior to the sales approval, Bill Clinton goes to Moscow, gets paid 500K for a one-hour speech then meets with Vladimir Putin at his home for a few hours.

    Ok, no big deal right? Well, not so fast, the FBI had a mole inside this scheme.

    Guess who was the FBI Director during this time frame? Yep, Robert Mueller. He requested the State Department allow himself to deliver a Uranium Sample to Moscow in 2009, under the guise of a “sting” operation – (see leaked secret cable 09STATE38943).. while it is never clear if Mueller did deliver the sample, the “implication” is there ..

    Guess who was handling that case within the Justice Department out of the US Attorney’s Office in Maryland ?? No other than, Rod Rosenstein.

    Remember the “informant” inside the FBI —- Guess what happened to the informant? Department of Justice placed a GAG order on him and threatened to lock him up if he spoke about the Uranium Deal. Personally, I have to question how does 20% of the most strategic asset of the United States of America end up in Russian hands??? The FBI had an informant, a mole providing inside information to the FBI on the criminal enterprise and NOTHING happens, except to the informant – Strange !!

    Guess what happened soon after the sale was approved? … 145 million dollars in “donations” made their way into the Clinton Foundation from entities directly connected to the Uranium One deal.

    Guess who was still at the Internal Revenue Service working the Charitable Division?

    No other than, Lois Lerner. Ok, that’s all just another series of coincidences, nothing to see here, right? Let’s fast forward to 2015.

    Due to a series of tragic events in Benghazi and after the nine “investigations” the House, Senate and at State Department, Trey Gowdy who was running the 10th investigation as Chairman of the Select Committee on Benghazi, discovers that the Hillary ran the State Department on an unclassified, unauthorized, outlaw personal email server.

    He also discovered that none of those emails had been turned over when she departed her “Public Service” as Secretary of State which was required by law.

    He also discovered that there was Top Secret information contained within her personally archived email. Sparing you the State Departments cover up, the nostrums they floated, the delay tactics that were employed and the outright lies that were spewed forth from the necks of the Kerry State Department, they did everything humanly possible to cover for Hillary.

    Guess who became FBI Director in 2013? Guess who secured 17 no bid contracts for his employer (Lockheed Martin) with the State Department and was rewarded with a six million dollar thank you present when he departed his employer. No other than James Comey. Folks if I did this when I worked for the government, I would have been locked up – The State Department didn’t even comply with the EEO and small business requirements the government places on all Request For Proposals (RFP) on contracts — It amazes me how all those no-bids just went right through at State – simply amazing and no Inspector General investigation !!

    Next after leaving the private sector Comey is the FBI Director in charge of the “Clinton Email Investigation” after of course his FBI Investigates the Lois Lerner “Matter” at the Internal Revenue Service and exonerates her. Nope couldn’t find any crimes there. Nothing here to report –

    Then of all surprises, in April 2016, James Comey drafts an exoneration letter of Hillary Rodham Clinton, meanwhile the DOJ is handing out immunity deals like candy on Halloween.

    The DOJ didn’t even convene a Grand Jury. Like a lightning bolt of statistical impossibility, like a miracle from God himself, like the true “Gangsta” Homey is, James steps out into the cameras of an awaiting press conference on July the 8th of 2016 and exonerates the Hillary from any wrongdoing. As I’ve said many times, July 8, 2016 is the date that will live in infamy of the American Justice System ..

    Can you see the pattern?

    It goes on and on, Rosenstein becomes Asst. Attorney General, Comey gets fired based upon a letter by Rosenstein, Comey leaks government information to the press, Mueller is assigned to the Russian Investigation witch hunt by Rosenstein to provide cover for decades of malfeasance within the FBI and DOJ and the story continues.

    FISA Abuse, political espionage….. pick a crime, any crime, chances are…… this group and a few others did it.

    All the same players.

    All compromised and conflicted.

    All working fervently to NOT go to jail themselves.

    All connected in one way or another to the Clinton’s.

    They are like battery acid, they corrode and corrupt everything they touch.

    How many lives have the Clinton’s destroyed?

    As of this writing, the Clinton Foundation, in its 20+ years of operation of being the largest International Charity Fraud in the history of mankind, has never been audited by the Internal Revenue Service.

    Let us not forget that Comey’s brother works for DLA Piper, the law firm that does the Clinton Foundation’s taxes.

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    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
    More on Mueller for renfro, who seems to think that Mueller has some kind of integrity hidden somewhere:

    http://themillenniumreport.com/2017/05/robert-mueller-the-old-fixer-is-back-in-town/
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  • "As one of the conditions of considering publication of this article, Ron Unz has required me to personally apologize to commenter Rurik for having previously threatened to "dox" him based on our private correspondence. I am therefore providing that apology, and also sincerely promising to make no such threats nor take such actions against him...
  • @Uebersetzer
    Magic armour-piercing rounds do not typically weigh 130 tons or whatever the weight of airliners on 9-11 was. Airliners flying into high towers is a sufficiently rare phenomenon that it may be difficult to be polemical about what would or would not happen, but I don't think the building would remain pristine.

    I don’t think the building would remain pristine.

    Well, I don’t recall anybody saying that the building would be “pristine”. However a hundred ton jet hitting a 500,000 ton building, of which 100,000 tons is structural steel, that’s not going to cause the entire building to disintegrate in short order.

    And the much vaunted 90,000 litres of jet fuel is less than one liter of fuel for every ton of steel.

    And then even if you can explain all this away, what about WTC 7?

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  • Wednesday’s criminal referral by 11 House Republicans of former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton as well as several former and serving top FBI and Department of Justice (DOJ) officials is a giant step toward a Constitutional crisis. Named in the referral to the DOJ for possible violations of federal law are: Clinton, former FBI Director...
  • @Stonehands
    The KJV is Gods word preserved in English, the originals being in Hebrew and Greek.
    .........................................................................

    Apocryphal - def: (of a story or statement) of doubtful authenticity, although widely circulated as being true.

    Esdras and Wisdom two books of fraud. That’s
    the “ big discovery” by your Jew assistant professor of English at Montclair State College. Some scholar...

    Do you often post schlock like this from third parties who cut and paste from the Leninist New York Times...lol.

    The anti-Christian or anti God rhetoric is heavy nowadays. It's almost funny (if it weren't so pathetic) to watch how Christians and God are demeaned by cultural marxists in media and academia and our lousy leftist fecal government. Whether its a push to promote the NWO's unified religion. Or just another angle in their plot to destroy the binding forces within society, I can't say. But it's truly pathetic.


    Oh well, l guess l’ll just bang the dust off my sandals...

    I thought it might bug you your beloved King James was a fag .. but apparently not, because double life is common among hyper-conservative Christians, example given Ted Haggard:

    “an email surfaced in which Haggard admitted masturbating with Jones and taking drugs, as alleged”

    I have to laugh at the Marxist label… knee-jerk dumb-shit-itus

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  • I have never ruled out the possibility that Russia is responsible for the attack in Salisbury, amongst other possibilities. But I do rule out the possibility that Assad is dropping chemical weapons in Ghouta. In this extraordinary war, where Saudi-funded jihadist head choppers have Israeli air support and US and UK military “advisers”, every time...
  • @Sean
    Obama could have attacked the Alawite family dictatorship in Syria on his own authority without asking anyone. He didn't, Under Trump there have been attacks of little materiel significance that haven't done anything to halt the advance of the Assad regieme territory; victories won by Iranian infantry and Russian ground attack planes. The West would simply like him to meet his obligations and stop gassing people as there is an international agreement against killing people that way. Why can't he just stick to the normal use of high explosives to blast them to pieces?

    There’s also an international agreement prohibiting aggressive war. Perhaps you can alert the State Department. Nikki hasn’t heard of it either. Alert her too!

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  • @Sean
    If the US wanted to take on Russia it would have done it in the Ukraine. The US could have taken out Assad with one week of air strikes, before the Russian arrived. They didn't because Syria is not worth it.

    Assad regieme n authorities declared to the relevant international organisation years ago that they had a chemical and bacterial weapons program, and Russia cooperated in the hand over for destruction of all such declared Assad assets .There is a convention against use of chemical weapons and Assad has breached it repeated in the Syrian civil war( that started when he stupidly put up the price of basic necessities) . Anyway he got a second slap on the wrist, and he knows what to do if he wants another one.

    ** Syria is not worth it. **

    On the contrary, the US appears to be obsessed with Syria. And whatever the true interests of the US are, they are precisely what the elite wish to avoid at all costs.

    Sure Assad used chemical weapons. To achieve no tactical advantage ever and guaranteed to stir up Western liars, manipulators, and bed wetters to his strategic disadvantage. Sure. He’s THAT stupid. Let’s see now . . . a rational, gentlemanly medical professional used chemical weapons or jihadi terrorist scum used chemical weapons? Whoa. That’s a really tough one.

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  • "As one of the conditions of considering publication of this article, Ron Unz has required me to personally apologize to commenter Rurik for having previously threatened to "dox" him based on our private correspondence. I am therefore providing that apology, and also sincerely promising to make no such threats nor take such actions against him...
  • @Steve Gittelson

    Another very bitter failed writer of the Great American Novel?
     
    Novel? Perish the thought. BS Philosophy, MS Computer Science. No interest in novels at all -- haven't read fiction since a rather dreadful trip to St. Croix in 2007.

    However, in support of, and response to your gratuitous personal attack, based in conspiracy theory hurt feewings ... bite me, loser.

    I get it, you’re the Git’s Spittle. Corporate assfuck and proud of it, eh? Science man, eh? Read your Popular Science article, no doubt, which convinced you beyond any doubt, because THE AUTHORITIES SAID SO. Mommy issues? No doubt. Take yourself a nice bubble bath.

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  • @Anon
    Jonathan, if you really want to pursue this I have a few thoughts.

    They don’t come from the internet they come from an original source, me.

    Like non existent Betty Ong and her crisis actor siblings I’m born, raised and lived most of my life in San Francisco.

    So I don’t need google maps or any other internet source.

    Like most people on this site, I picked up somewhere that Betty Ong went to George Washington High on 32nd Avenue a couple blocks from Geary in the outer Richmond district of San Francisco. I lived less than a mile north of that school.

    I assumed that because she went to Washington she and her family lived in the outer Richmond.

    I just read the Wikipedia entry. It says she grew up in Chinatown. Now, Chinatown is about 5 miles from Washington High. And whether by car or bus it’s a ghastly trip. By car it takes a good hour during week day traffic.

    To get there by bus it would involve 2 buses and a cable car. It would take an hour or more twice a day. After the cable car she would have to wait at the Geary st bus stop.

    It’s horrible, especially when it rains. Picture 50 people trying to crowd unto the Geary st bus. Then the horrible crowded awful bus that goes about 5 miles an hour till it gets west of Van Ness.

    Now, why would she or her parents want her to waste 2 to 3 hours a day to go to a perfectly ordinary average public high school when there is an ordinary public school, Galileo right in Chinatown?

    If her parents sent her to Mercy SF or St Rose or Lick-Wilmerding or another private school in western SF the horrible commute would be worth it.

    But to go to Washington? Unless it was a forced bussing thing.
    Someone found a Gloria Ong graduated 1972 from Galileo the Chinatown high school. That’s the right name and age of the sister.

    Revulsky found an inter net Washington yearbook and the only Betty Ong was black.

    There are about 75 private and public high schools in SF. St Rose closed after the 1989 earthquake. Many of the private schools opened after Betty Ong was high school age. Does anyone want to search all those schools? Not me

    Go ahead Sparkon, use your wonderful google skills and tell me how I am wrong about how to to get from Chinatown to the outer Richmond.

    Your pontificating about cities you’ve never been to is ridiculous. You should be embarrassed

    So why don’t you be the one to go to the school, get the yearbook, contact classmates, interview them on any recollections or lack of them? Clear things up! Concrete evidence is needed, no more off the internet.

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    • Replies: @Anon
    Couple days ago I posted that I’m going to San Francisco for the summer and I might go to Washington and try to get the yearbook.

    But now I doubt she went to Washington. 76 high schools in San Francisco Maybe Sparkon can use google maps to find the yearbook.

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  • @Erebus

    I find it almost hard to believe that Ron Unz is so unopen to this idea being true. He seems to be totally on board with 911–why can’t he leap any further?
     
    I don't find it odd at all.

    In a nutshell, humans live, not in the Newtonian world, but in a narrative. They need the meaning(s) that only a narrative can lend to the cold interactions of forces and masses. The narratives get more and more complex as one goes up the food chain. At the socio-political level they can get complex indeed, and the people who have seen success within the prevailing socio-political narrative have the most invested in it. Typically, they're are also the ones best equipped to defend it.

    What plebes like us believe doesn't matter. "The Ruling classes" have ever depended on the total capitulation of the intelligentsia, political, and upper economic classes to the narrative for their power. That is the great insight of Orwell's 2+2=5. Belief in an absurdity signifies total capitulation, even when it's feigned.

    I've (literally) watched competent, successful engineers do the maths on the collapse of the towers, stare at the results, and reject them. Some broke contact with me.

    In this Betty Ong yearbook case, we see the process in action. Presented with increasingly persuasive evidence, Ron's went from "85-90%" certainty of her existence to "90-95%". If a real original copy equally or more compelling were to be put in front of him, it wouldn't surprise me much if he simply walked away from the wager. The narrative will defend itself any way it can.

    Well said, and I completely agree. Another incredible phenomenon is this utterly bizarre existence.

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  • During the bombing of Baghdad in January 1991 I went with other journalists on a government-organised trip to what they claimed was the remains of a baby milk plant at Abu Ghraib which the US had just destroyed, saying that it was really a biological warfare facility. Walking around the wreckage, I found a smashed-up...
  • anonymous[359] • Disclaimer says:

    We Should be Sceptical of Those Who Claim to Know the Events in Syria?

    This essay is ironic to the extreme, especially because this same “journalist” has also submitted another essay here;

    http://www.unz.com/pcockburn/yazidis-who-suffered-under-isis-now-face-forced-conversion-to-islam/

    I’ll take his own advice given above.

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  • Disordered thoughts on the National Cockatoo’s latest antics. One: The aghastment and horrilation about the terrible, appalling, shocking etc nature of gas warfare is nonsense. There is nothing unusually hideous about the use of toxic chemicals. Hideous, yes, but not unusually hideous. Boring old workaday artillery, that nobody criticizes, leaves children watching as mommy frantically...
  • anonymous[359] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dagon Shield
    JD, you are so smart and well read yet they have accused of being an Indian... there is no justice!

    you are so smart and well read yet they have accused of being an Indian

    I see what you did there with the implication of that statement.

    I wonder if any hindoo nationalist degenerate with a sufficiently seared butthole will respond to that.

    :D

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  • anonymous[359] • Disclaimer says:
    @jim jones
    I am going to enjoy reading Unz the day after Trump gets the Nobel Peace Prize for uniting Korea

    That would be further proof of the Evil Empire’s imminent demise. So, witnessing satan’s pussy slink away with its tail between its legs, should be something to rejoice.

    I am all for Trump getting the Hypocrites, er I mean nobel, Peace Prize.

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  • anonymous[359] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Gittelson
    Goad is a vassal of TakiMag. Cutting and pasting from one webzine to another is considered gauche, if not outright illegal for various and sundry copyright reasons.

    Unz is an okay guy, and reasonably restrained with regard to the multitude of crazies who use his comment-sections for, sometimes, rather wackadoodley semi-hysterical ranting.

    Busy, busy, busy in the Vonnegutian sense.

    with regard to the multitude of crazies who use his comment-sections for, sometimes, rather wackadoodley semi-hysterical ranting.

    I do it all the time. That is what I love about The UR. :D

    See, it is one thing to be armchair crazies, generally quite harmless, just venting our feelings, than be the crazy racist mofers of your kind, who in stark contrast commit satanic evil, causing untold suffering to real people.

    Can your despicable self understand that basic difference?

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  • "As one of the conditions of considering publication of this article, Ron Unz has required me to personally apologize to commenter Rurik for having previously threatened to "dox" him based on our private correspondence. I am therefore providing that apology, and also sincerely promising to make no such threats nor take such actions against him...
  • @Wally
    Speaking of "duping delight", the fake testimonies of people in synthetic events:

    These lying 'survivors' are revealing in regards to the fake '6,000,000, Jews' / impossible 'gas chambers'. These examples are a mere drop in the ocean of the endless, impossible, contradictory lies that are all about the minds of perverted liars, nothing more:

    - According to acclaimed & so called "holocaust eyewitness" Henryk Tauber, corpses could be cremated in 5-7 minutes.
    If you question that in many countries you will be imprisoned.

    - "holocaust $urvivor" Irene Zisblatt, repeatedly eating and defecating several diamonds daily over the course of 18 months, escaping from not one, but two gassing chambers at the last second, or her claim that she and many other inmates were forced to stand for days on end in ankle-deep water, laden with urine and feces. She was also chosen for "eye color change" experiments and her blemish-free skin was destined to be used to make lamp shades -- but she was able to avoid such fate for reasons she is uncertain of.

    - Jew 'Freddie the Pimp' ate human flesh to survive Auschwitz

    - The SS officer [who] was probably a doctor, dressed in white robe, shoved an iron stick, which had a handle on its end, right into my rectum. He then turned the stick and caused an involuntary ejaculation of sperm. A female SS officer [who] worked with the other officer held two pieces of glass underneath my genitals in order to collect a sample of my sperm for the lab. They then made me stand up on a special machine that gave electric waves to both sides of my genitals until again a sperm was ejaculated.

    -Me and a Jewish American (a watchmaker, passport from the USA) were subjected to medical experiments. SS German Shepherd dogs, belonging to the commander of the SS Obersturmfuehrer Rosenbaum, with a special poison on their teeth … we had to run [and] the dogs had to chase us. Afterwards they examined our wounds, the blood. A doctor … ripped the flesh of my legs and examined it. I was able to escape. First to a peasant in a village—afterwards to friends of mine in Krakow.

    much, much more here:
    the so called 'Holocaust' / theatre of the absurd
    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=66

    www.codoh.com

    There was a gigantic, organised slaughter of European Jews in the 1940s. I did research in two apparently unrelated areas to it and curiously enough, Jewish victims of the Nazis are present.
    1. The Good Soldier Svejk by the Czech writer Jaroslav Hasek. A character in the novel is a Cadet Biegler. Many characters were based on real-life characters known to the author. One of them was Hans Bigler.

    http://honsi.org/literature/svejk/?page=11&lang=en#Bigler

    Bigler’s father Eduard was killed in Bergen-Belsen in 1944, on account of being Jewish. It is not clear whether Hans Bigler was fully Jewish or part-Jewish although the latter is more likely – half-Jews generally speaking survived the Nazi era although they were despised as Mischlinge. Hans Bigler seems to have attributed his own survival to an Allied air raid on Dresden, where he then lived, destroying Gestapo records.
    2. A Nazi-era (1937) German film called Unternehmen Michael set during the German offensives of 1918. A supporting role in the film was played by the actor Paul Otto. Otto was in fact Jewish but this was not discovered until 1943. When it was discovered, Otto committed suicide with his wife shortly before being deported to the “East”.
    If the Holocaust was a hoax, why was Eduard Bigler killed? And why did a respected German actor like Paul Otto opt for suicide when he was discovered to be of Jewish origin and about to be deported to Auschwitz, Treblinka or some such destination?

    https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0653288/?ref_=tt_cl_t2

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    • LOL: L.K
    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
    Credit is due: I’ve seen some pretty absurd “arguments” from Holo-believers, but this is a whole new level of stupid.
    , @utu
    Cadet Bigler: People Bergen Belsen usually died from diseases caused by overwork and malnutrition rather than being murdered.

    Paul Otto: indeed people kill themselves out of fear of death which always strikes me as strange.
    , @Jonathan Revusky

    Bigler’s father Eduard was killed in Bergen-Belsen in 1944, on account of being Jewish.
     
    Uebersetzer, even according to the official Holocaustian narrative, Bergen-Belsen was never an extermination camp. The people who were transported there (the most famous case being Anne Frank) died of typhus and other opportunistic diseases.

    Moreover, the terrible conditions at Belsen and Buchenwald (which, again, are not deemed by even the official history to have been extermination camps) arose because of the terrible conditions prevalent in Germany at the time.

    But really, it would be better to know what you're talking about. You can't pull out Bergen-Belsen as an example to support the core narrative of extermination in gas chambers when even the official court historians are saying that Belsen wasn't that.
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  • @Anonymous

    Betty Ong is real, and the phone call she made was real. It was made on a seatback airphone,
     
    Cabin staff (of course) have their own radio communications facilities separate from the optional "airphone" system to talk to ground crew. Equally, and of course, they have well-rehearsed emergency procedures that are presumably not reliant on airphones that may not be available at all.

    It is at least puzzling that established communications procedures for emergencies were not followed.

    Similarly, the third-hand way in which the Betty Ong call was supposedly reduced to writing does not pass the smell test. Why was the call not transferred directly to a senior airline official in charge of security/hijacking issues?

    Maybe there was not a senior official in charge of hijackings

    I wouldn’t be surprised.

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  • @daniel le mouche
    'I’ll admit that the crack about all phone calls made from the hijacked planes on 9/11 as being “plainly fake” according to the “Truth community” was a highly amusing one. That they’re “plainly” fake isn’t quite true as most believe people them to be genuine.'

    Your problem, like most Americans', is that you've been brought up on tv from the cradle. Yet, like so many AMERICANS (and western Europeans, though the percentages drop drastically in other parts of the world who KNOW what the perennial phoney regime actually DOES), you think of yourself as having a very firm grip on reality. Each and every person I know of who has gone over to the other side, has had some sort of epiphany. This initial shock, which turns what they thought they knew of reality completely on its head, is followed by years of unlearning all the bullshit the system--tv, movies, school, bestsellers--has inculcated in them, till finally they believe nothing whatsoever they read or see. And this is right and proper, to use an old term. Look to Ron Unz himself, who has written on this. Perhaps one day you'll get that douse of cold water in your face (or choose your metaphor). Good luck.

    Kind of interesting, this. A staple of Unz comments and some articles is of how low-IQ everyone is outside North America and Western Europe (and even there there are blacks etc.) but suddenly they are more perceptive and see through what is phony, in say, the Central African Republic compared to the States, simply because they watch less TV.

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    • Replies: @daniel le mouche
    'suddenly they are more perceptive and see through what is phony, in say, the Central African Republic compared to the States, simply because they watch less TV'

    Not only do most people watch far less tv than Americans, but they are actually, many of them, INVADED BY ... Americans (and Brits and French, the grand coalition in lock step). But tv brainwashes anyone it touches. Its extremely harmful effects have to be consciously unlearned, a sometimes painful process (finding out this or that cherished thing is there to do you harm, from sports teams and individuals to favorite tv shows and movies and music).
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  • Wednesday’s criminal referral by 11 House Republicans of former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton as well as several former and serving top FBI and Department of Justice (DOJ) officials is a giant step toward a Constitutional crisis. Named in the referral to the DOJ for possible violations of federal law are: Clinton, former FBI Director...
  • The KJV is Gods word preserved in English, the originals being in Hebrew and Greek.
    ……………………………………………………………….

    Apocryphal – def: (of a story or statement) of doubtful authenticity, although widely circulated as being true.

    Esdras and Wisdom two books of fraud. That’s
    the “ big discovery” by your Jew assistant professor of English at Montclair State College. Some scholar…

    Do you often post schlock like this from third parties who cut and paste from the Leninist New York Times…lol.

    The anti-Christian or anti God rhetoric is heavy nowadays. It’s almost funny (if it weren’t so pathetic) to watch how Christians and God are demeaned by cultural marxists in media and academia and our lousy leftist fecal government. Whether its a push to promote the NWO’s unified religion. Or just another angle in their plot to destroy the binding forces within society, I can’t say. But it’s truly pathetic.

    Oh well, l guess l’ll just bang the dust off my sandals…

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    • Replies: @Ronald Thomas West
    I thought it might bug you your beloved King James was a fag .. but apparently not, because double life is common among hyper-conservative Christians, example given Ted Haggard:

    "an email surfaced in which Haggard admitted masturbating with Jones and taking drugs, as alleged"

    I have to laugh at the Marxist label... knee-jerk dumb-shit-itus
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  • "As one of the conditions of considering publication of this article, Ron Unz has required me to personally apologize to commenter Rurik for having previously threatened to "dox" him based on our private correspondence. I am therefore providing that apology, and also sincerely promising to make no such threats nor take such actions against him...
  • Congressional representatives call for probe into claims scammers are trying to steal personal information from 9/11 heroes

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5644729/NY-reps-ask-FTC-probe-reports-9-11-compensation-scam.html#ixzz5DTJ4nNqL

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  • @Mulegino1
    What is it about what used to be called the "Third Law of Motion" that these people do not get? Ballistics proves conclusively that the "airliner penetrating structural steel and concrete floor pans" is bollocks. Imagine if anyone tried to market a magic armor piercing round composed of a thin aluminum jacket and a hollow core.!

    Magic armour-piercing rounds do not typically weigh 130 tons or whatever the weight of airliners on 9-11 was. Airliners flying into high towers is a sufficiently rare phenomenon that it may be difficult to be polemical about what would or would not happen, but I don’t think the building would remain pristine.

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    • Replies: @Jonathan Revusky

    I don’t think the building would remain pristine.
     
    Well, I don't recall anybody saying that the building would be "pristine". However a hundred ton jet hitting a 500,000 ton building, of which 100,000 tons is structural steel, that's not going to cause the entire building to disintegrate in short order.

    And the much vaunted 90,000 litres of jet fuel is less than one liter of fuel for every ton of steel.

    And then even if you can explain all this away, what about WTC 7?
    , @Beefcake the Mighty
    And the buildings weighted 500K tons. No “rare event” speciousness is necessary to understand what should (think bug and windshield).
    , @Cold N. Holefield
    Of course the building would not remain pristine. In fact, I would imagine had the buildings not collapsed, they would have been condemned, and much to Silverstein's Chagrin, the Insurance Payout would have been much less and an inadequate Return on Investment. Instead, he made out like a Bandit.

    Understand the Buildings' Design. The strength of the buildings emanated from their Cores, or at least the strength of The Twin Towers. The Jets never affected the Cores. They were shredded into a million pieces before penetrating that far. The most that should have happened is the collpase of several floors around those incredibly strong and secure Cores, but the Cores would have remained intact. The fact that the Cores fell concomintantly with the not-so-strong Perimeter Space is anomalous and unexpected and has not been explained adequately.

    Here's the base of one of the Beams comprising the Core. It's sheered and there is cooled Molten Metal showing. Since the building fell pretty much straight down in its footprint, this Column Beam would not have been sheered like this and there is no reason for the Molten Metal. Unless.

    Look Mom, No Hands!!
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  • Butcher of Damascus. Gasser of children. Baby Killer of Syria. Tool of Moscow. Cruel despot. Monster. These are all names the western media and politicians routinely heap on Syria’s president, Bashar al-Assad. He has now become the top Mideast villain, the man we love to hate. As a veteran Mideast watcher, I find all this...
  • @LondonBob
    Nothing fake about the German atrocities against Belgian civilians, see Dinant. Anyway Britain was allied with the Tsar so the media gatekeepers kept up a steady drumbeat of pro German propaganda so that Anglo-Saxon America could not aid her sister country sooner.

    Nothing fake about the German atrocities against Belgian civilians, see Dinant.

    On the contrary. While there were German atrocities (don’t see Dinant, see German Atrocities, 1914 — A History of Denial), quite a bit of it was fake, some staged in Paris for best effect.

    so that Anglo-Saxon America could not aid her sister country sooner

    This was not “Anglo-Saxon” (more like Anglo-Protestant, amirite?) America’s war to wage, indeed it was not even Great Britain’s war to wage. Anyway the “sister country” lost its Empire (as well its population) while “Anglo-Saxon” America gained its, so a transfer between those “sisters” was a good, old, fat win-lose situation.

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  • "As one of the conditions of considering publication of this article, Ron Unz has required me to personally apologize to commenter Rurik for having previously threatened to "dox" him based on our private correspondence. I am therefore providing that apology, and also sincerely promising to make no such threats nor take such actions against him...
  • Anonymous[989] • Disclaimer says:
    @EliteCommInc.
    An evidence trail that is based on a lot of unanswered and decidedly suspicious behavior and contradictions is not evidence making a solid case.

    One need not be a historian to know that a myriad of events have troubling aspects that could filled with sinister explanation --- that alone does not make it so. I am not inclined to find a person guilty based on what are suspicious variables and unanswered questions.


    As for TV, a prime tool for misleading the public.

    For which part do you find the evidence insufficient:

    A) proving beyond all reasonable doubt that the official story is complete bunk;
    B) proving beyond all reasonable doubt that one of the alternative theories is correct?

    I can’t tell if you accept A but are not convinced about B, or if your doubts about B are causing you to also doubt A (which they definitely should NOT – the two questions are completely separate!)

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  • @Anon
    So Betty Ong was the only person who identified an Israeli commando as one of the hijackers who shot people.

    No wonder the Israelis planted stories all over the internet that she didn’t exist.

    And most of the naive credulous internet “ researchers” on this site read those Israeli stories and believe she didn’t exist.

    That’s why I usually comment only about things I have personally done or seen or spoken with a person, such as my friend’s nephew who saw the planes crash into the towers from his Bay Ridge Brooklyn school.

    Betty Ong didn’t ever exist story was obviously planted all over the internet by the Israelis and the internet researcher fools fools believed it because they read it on the internet.

    Bingo. Expect the MSM to put a spotlight on this, or at least snopes or trash sites like The Daily Beast.

    I wonder if the Ong family will sue Alex Jones too.

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    • Replies: @Cold N. Holefield

    I wonder if the Ong family will sue Alex Jones too.
     
    That might be easier than getting the Saudi's to cough up. How come The Trumpster hasn't pushed for Justice for The 9/11 Victims' Families? Obama didn't either. Funny, that. Except it's not.

    The Saudi Elephant In The Room

    There's a reason The American Establishment is doing everything it can to prevent a Civil Lawsuit against Saudi Arabia. If such a suit went forward, it would Spill The Beans, and we can't have that, can we? Civil Lawsuits are much more lenient when it comes to evidence you can submit and the possibility exists that some of what we're discussing here will become a part of the Official Record. Perhaps the Saudis, rather than taking it on the Chin for The Gipper and paying, in their defense they expose The Truth about 9/11, or at least the component of The Truth that makes them look rather innocent compared to the Predominate Perpetrators/Predators.
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  • Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @for-the-record
    her ostensible family

    Someone has certainly gone to a lot of trouble to conjure out of nothing this "ostensible" family.

    Harry Ong, Sr. Passed away peacefully at home on Feb. 24, with his loving family by his side. Harry Sr., 86, was the beloved husband of Yee Gum Oy, and would have been married 59 years in March. Loving father to Harry Jr. and Dorothy Ong, Cathie Ann and Edward Herrera, Gloria Ann Ong-Woo, and Betty Ann Ong, [!!!] who predeceased him. Cherished grandfather to Dean and Kameron Joelson, Matthew Ong, Lauren Woo and Austin Woo. Also survived by many loving families and friends and will be greatly missed by all. Relatives and friends are cordially invited to attend a Visitation on March 9 from 6pm to 8pm, and Funeral on March 10 at 10am, both at the Tiffany Chapel at Cypress Lawn Funeral Home, 1370 El Camino Real, Colma, CA. Interment , Cypress Lawn Cemetery in Colma, CA. The family would also like to thank Dr. Bertrand Tuan and the wonderful staff of Pacific Hematology Oncology, San Francisco, CA. In lieu of flowers, donations would be sincerely appreciated for the Betty Ann Ong Foundation, P.O. Box 1108, Bakersfield, CA 93302.

    Published in San Francisco Chronicle from Mar. 4 to Mar. 5, 2007
     
    If Betty Ann Ong didn't exist, then none of these other people could exist either, since they all are (or were) in a position to confirm her existence.

    I’m sure it was a fake announcement. When people showed up for the visitation and funeral there were the crisis actors milling around pretend to be family and friends.

    The grand children are also crisis actors. The deception will be carried out unto the 4th generation when the crisis actor grandchildren reach an age to have their own children

    The corpse of course was a plastic mannequin.

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  • @Truth
    Yo revOO, you won.

    You had to apologize for what you said you were going to do to one of these NeoConscripts, instead you Doxed all of them AT THE SAME TIME.

    The official 9/11 story is not only patently absurd, but so incredibly ridiculous that I would have a hard time believing that anyone who believes it has an IQ over 70.

    They must be those LO-IQ White Nationalist Wiggers another poster is always talking about.

    (heh...heh...heh...)

    All the hasbarats come swarming to these conspiracy articles.

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  • @Beefcake the Mighty
    So, basically you have nothing?

    I have more than you have, a man who lived in NYC and saw it happen.

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    • Replies: @Seamus Day

    I have more than you have, a man who lived in NYC and saw it happen.
     
    A friend of my mom’s who lives in Arlington, VA, called right after the news from the WTC was breaking, and smoke was coming from what the news thought was from the Capitol, and she was crying and told my mom that see just saw a plane fly into the Pentagon. I was there when my mom took the call.
    , @daniel le mouche
    Okay, I didn't see it happen live, but was in NY six months later and saw the still-smoldering crater. Indeed, I hereby confirm that the World Trade Center is no more. And big whoop. Who ever said otherwise?
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  • Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @ploni almoni
    At least ten or fifteen people saw airplanes hit the buildings. There are even videos of planes hitting the buildings. And it was on live TV. Why do you make a big deal of some one in Brooklyn in a schoolyard see a plane hit the building? Yes you can see Manhattan from Brooklyn. So What? What does that prove? It was on television. Is that not enough for you?

    Because Sparkon denies the towers fell despite various people present in Manhattan or across the river in Brooklyn seeing the planes crash into the buildings.

    It’s not just this thread. Many times over the years someone posts that he or she was in Manhattan that day and saw the planes and the towers fall.

    Sparkon always jumps in and claims the poster didn’t see anything and nothing happened in Manhattan that day.

    He or she only believes what he or she reads in the internet. That’s why I mentioned the man who saw the event happening across the river from his Brooklyn school.

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  • Disordered thoughts on the National Cockatoo’s latest antics. One: The aghastment and horrilation about the terrible, appalling, shocking etc nature of gas warfare is nonsense. There is nothing unusually hideous about the use of toxic chemicals. Hideous, yes, but not unusually hideous. Boring old workaday artillery, that nobody criticizes, leaves children watching as mommy frantically...
  • @Pat Kittle
    Saddam was falsely accused of (specified) "WMD's" -- AND killing Kuwaiti babies.

    But most of all, Saddam was the "New Hitler!!" -- so we urgently had to save the poor Jews from another Holocau$t.

    Without missing a beat, Qaddafi became the next "New Hitler!!"

    And now Assad is the "New Hitler!!"

    "New Hitlers!!" everywhere, it seems -- everywhere Israel orders the goyim to fight its wars.

    Ahmadinejad was the "New Hitler!!"

    Rouhani is the new "New Hitler!!"

    Kim Song Un is the "New Hitler!!"

    Putin is the "New Hitler!!"

    Oy, it's anudda Shoah!!

    Please do us all a favour and rememeber to take your meds tommorow

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  • @SunBakedSuburb
    "... Russia and China have adult leadership."

    They are also non-democratic, authoritarian regimes.

    "By contrast, Trump is a loon, ignorant of practically everything, mentally chaotic, and easily modified."

    That's all true, especially the last bit. But give the Orange One some credit: he was a wrecking ball to the stagnant, hideous Clinton and Bush dynasties. He has also driven the DC establishment and media insane. Pure schadenfreude.

    Yup, regardless of what Trump does or doesn’t do, he has completely outed the globalist cabal and uniparty system.

    To be honest I’m not sure that he even knew why he had such a following. He does not seem like the most thoughtful man. He saw the crowds with thousands of Americans cheering his message, so he kept repeating it. He might not have seen himself in the same way that we “conspiracy theorists” did. So he’s confused and doesn’t see how he’s letting us down.

    Trump did the first bit, and quite frankly it’s up to the people whether or not our society will survive. Trump was a great push through the barriers, and it’s up to us to continue.

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    • Agree: Bill Jones
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  • "As one of the conditions of considering publication of this article, Ron Unz has required me to personally apologize to commenter Rurik for having previously threatened to "dox" him based on our private correspondence. I am therefore providing that apology, and also sincerely promising to make no such threats nor take such actions against him...
  • If Ron Und has $10,000 burning his pocket instead of paying the lazy bum Revusky he could hire a PI to do the research on Betty Ong by getting vital records of Betty Ong and interview some real people and do what Revusky, the great believer in crisis actors and non-existent people never intended to do.

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    • Replies: @Jonathan Revusky

    the lazy bum Revusky
     
    Utu, you pathetic dumbass... by your logic, if you took your car to a mechanic specifically for an oil change, and he did just that, changed the oil, he would be a "lazy bum" because he did not take the opportunity to rebuild your car's engine!

    The wager with Unz was specifically about whether Betty Ong was in the appropriate high school yearbook. To say that I'm lazy because I resolved that question and didn't go further makes no sense really.

    Now, granted, as the scriptures say, out of the mouths of dumbasses can come words of wisdom, so you do make a valid point about hiring a private investigator. Assuming one really did want to resolve the Betty Ong question thoroughly, I guess that is what one would do -- as opposed to insisting that I, somebody who is not any sort of professional investigator, do it.

    So, yes, I would be perfectly happy if Ron hired a PI to do just that. However, he really ought to pay off on this wager to me first.
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  • @German_reader
    If you google for Betty Ong, you find this

    https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/22128600/harry-ong

    and this

    https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Betty-Ong-s-family-remembers-2310213.php

    (and probably much more, I only looked for about a minute or so).

    On these two sites you find several fully named supposed close relatives of Betty Ong, and info that her parents owned a grocery store on Jackson Street in San Francisco.
    Now I don't want to encourage an obnoxious nutcase like Revusky to pester the relatives of a dead woman, but unless he can prove that these people are all fake and invented too, his research about 40-year old high school yearbooks is pretty worthless imo.

    Somehow I knew (((German_reader))) would make an appearance on this thread.

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    • Replies: @utu
    No he is just a good German on the cuck side . He probably is not ((()))).
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  • @Anonymous
    Do you actually know anything about law and practice wrt names in America or any country or are you just waffling?

    Surnames or given names?..And don't forget the regular surnames of today are quite recent compared with the antiquity of even the Common Law.

    If it isn't a crime what's to stop people using multiple names, as they do? Indeed many criminals have been known to use a dozen names. How many have you heard of bring prosecuted for doing that?

    If you end up realising that the law enters into it only if there is a specific statute or regulation or fiddling with names is an ingredient in a crime of fraud you may wonder why you think you have found a problem which affects the probability of Betty Ong and Betty Ng being one and the same person.

    In most American states, and many European and S American countries it is not a crime to use a false name.

    It’s only a crime to use a false name for fraud or to assist in committing any kind of crime.

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  • Everyone on board the Liberty would have been killed if the crew hadn’t managed to improvise an antenna and send a wide enough distress signal. The Liberty event shows that these things sometimes do go wrong but with enough friends in high places, suppression can still succeed.

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  • @Anon
    Losing track of you would be like losing track of an elderly rhinoceros stumbling blindly through the swamp.

    Apparently it’s break time and the interns have been brought in.

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  • Anonymous[249] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon
    Jonathan, if you really want to pursue this I have a few thoughts.

    They don’t come from the internet they come from an original source, me.

    Like non existent Betty Ong and her crisis actor siblings I’m born, raised and lived most of my life in San Francisco.

    So I don’t need google maps or any other internet source.

    Like most people on this site, I picked up somewhere that Betty Ong went to George Washington High on 32nd Avenue a couple blocks from Geary in the outer Richmond district of San Francisco. I lived less than a mile north of that school.

    I assumed that because she went to Washington she and her family lived in the outer Richmond.

    I just read the Wikipedia entry. It says she grew up in Chinatown. Now, Chinatown is about 5 miles from Washington High. And whether by car or bus it’s a ghastly trip. By car it takes a good hour during week day traffic.

    To get there by bus it would involve 2 buses and a cable car. It would take an hour or more twice a day. After the cable car she would have to wait at the Geary st bus stop.

    It’s horrible, especially when it rains. Picture 50 people trying to crowd unto the Geary st bus. Then the horrible crowded awful bus that goes about 5 miles an hour till it gets west of Van Ness.

    Now, why would she or her parents want her to waste 2 to 3 hours a day to go to a perfectly ordinary average public high school when there is an ordinary public school, Galileo right in Chinatown?

    If her parents sent her to Mercy SF or St Rose or Lick-Wilmerding or another private school in western SF the horrible commute would be worth it.

    But to go to Washington? Unless it was a forced bussing thing.
    Someone found a Gloria Ong graduated 1972 from Galileo the Chinatown high school. That’s the right name and age of the sister.

    Revulsky found an inter net Washington yearbook and the only Betty Ong was black.

    There are about 75 private and public high schools in SF. St Rose closed after the 1989 earthquake. Many of the private schools opened after Betty Ong was high school age. Does anyone want to search all those schools? Not me

    Go ahead Sparkon, use your wonderful google skills and tell me how I am wrong about how to to get from Chinatown to the outer Richmond.

    Your pontificating about cities you’ve never been to is ridiculous. You should be embarrassed

    I picked up somewhere that Betty Ong went to George Washington High on 32nd Avenue

    Perhaps someone decided after the fact to connect Betty Ong with the WRONG high school as a diversionary psyop, and created “supporting” material to keep this diversion afloat as long as possible.

    Since a considerable number of people actually died on 9/11, it is not clear why someone would have to invent a FICTITIOUS individual to hang the phone dialogues on.

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    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    The fiction has to be contrived prior to the actual event taking place so that media can all parrot the same lines and how the BBC came to report the collapse of WTC7 prior to its actual collapse. This is also why media announces the names and pictures of the so called perpetrators long before any real investigation has commenced and, more importantly, to derail any inconvenient facts that might emerge prior to the entire media being corralled.
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  • @Anonymous
    But - to be relevant - what do you say about the specific subject of criticism?

    You said that Erebus had a third class mind. I responded that I disagreed and stated that his comment history proved otherwise and was there for anyone to see while yours is not. Your crude insult reveals that it is you who has the third class mind. You also seem to be assailing the concept of Betty Ong being a fictional character, whereas I would assert that much, if not most of the entire narrative surrounding 9/11 is indeed a fiction and the lack of the usual substance surrounding the life of Betty Ong is indeed suspicious.

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    • Agree: Rurik
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  • @Beefcake the Mighty
    Indeed, it is worth reading, for Hamilton’s statements make clear he is nothing but a shill. Perhaps you are right that he cannot be portrayed as a 9-11 skeptic, but he is surely no asset for believers in the official storyline. At any rate, there is little doubt that the resources allocated to his investigation were meager in light of the event they were intended to cover.

    BTW, which of the anonymous assholes are you? I’ve lost track.

    Losing track of you would be like losing track of an elderly rhinoceros stumbling blindly through the swamp.

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    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
    Apparently it’s break time and the interns have been brought in.
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  • @Frankie P
    Jonathan Revusky,

    Did you make the apology in a personal correspondence? If so, why? The threat to dox him was public, why isn't the apology also public?

    Frankie P

    If our good host Run Unz is satisfied, you should be as well.

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    • Replies: @Rurik

    If our good host Run Unz is satisfied, you should be as well.
     
    I've finally had an opportunity to catch up a bit with my favorite website.

    Have not yet read all the comments, but figured I'd chime in here just to say that the issue between JR and I was resolved long ago, (at least on my end), but I'm sure Mr. Unz wanted to make the point that threatening to dox the participants to his phenomenal webzine is unacceptable.

    I think we're all indebted to Ron Unz for providing this oasis of free though and expression, (in an otherwise mundane and mendacious world), so I'm just repeating my gratitude to Mr. Unz, and for creating and maintaining and making his remarkable site available to us all. And I'm glad to see the distraction laid to rest.

    As to the article, there were some gems..

    ".. a very nice person, with exceptionally good body hygiene"

    "..don’t amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world."

    and a general kudos to the author for his tenacity.

    9/11 was an inside job. Conceived by Straussian, neocon psychopaths and perpetrated by the Mossad with elements within the CIA, FBI, (others) with a craven and complicit media and congress and 'intelligence' agencies- for the purpose of making the 21 century just as murderous and bloody as the 20th, and for the exact same motivation; Zionism. (Roth$child, et al unilateral hegemony over the planet)

    Any attempts to flesh out these Satanic forces, that threaten the all life on this Earth with their psychotic imperative to rule absolutely, is a noble endeavor as far as I can see.

    If it could be proven that Betty Ong's narrative (like Osama's, or Kuwait baby incubators and so many others) was a farce and a fraud, and that by demonstrating this, it might animate a more widespread demand for more investigative efforts, until we finally create a tsunami of outrage and righteous anger that will come crushing down upon the heads of those fiends and criminals who're responsible, then to this end, more power to you.

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  • Anon[426] • Disclaimer says:
    @redmudhooch
    Watch the videos, use your brain. It doesn't take a real genius to see.

    Does that look like an explosion or a collapse?

    Its really not that hard.

    Why is it hard to believe that not a lot of people would jump at the chance to put their career/life on the line? To speak out against the people that did this, to challenge the narrative, just look what the media can do to people who do.

    It takes a very brave person to do what those 3000 A&E have done, I get the sense you probably wouldn't.

    And again, if they would do evil on the level of USS Liberty and Lavon Affair, why wouldn't they do this?

    If Liberty would have been sunk, the sailors killed, anyone who questioned that would be labeled a conspiracy theorist too.

    It looks like the result of a very heavy weight – many storeys of the buildings – falling on to a temporarily resisting structure which includes a modest but substantial amount of concrete. Not surprising because that’s whst happened.

    As to the LIberty isn’t it one of the strongest arguments against the extreme conspiracy version that having to kill everyone made it too risky?

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    • Replies: @redmudhooch
    Really? Grab some cinder blocks stack them up, take a few more cinder blocks and drop them on the stacked cinder blocks and report back what happens. Do all the stacked cinder blocks below explode outwards, all the way down to the bottom block? Or do the cinder blocks you drop just fracture and fall to the side of the stacked ones? Come on bud, you can't be that ignorant. I suspect you are a paid puppet. This doesn't take a physicist to figure out...
    Watch this video go to 4:20, 5:40, 6:40, how does the top "falling" cause floors below the top to explode outwards before the falling top even gets to that point?
    The news reporters watching it happen live seem to think it is exploding as well.

    The USS Liberty and Lavon affair part of my comment is just to prove that they have done exactly the same kind of things before to sell wars to the American public, and how similar the events are for justifying war based on lies.

    Do better this time.
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  • @Anonymous
    Ah, another one of the intellectually shortwinded brigade blusters away. Thanks for reminding me of that Lee Hamilton quote and causing me to find and read the whole interview. You should do it if you are honest. And do it again if you have a memory lapse.

    He actually confirms the validity of the comment you purport to reply to.

    He complains about the time pressure and the limitation on their resources ($3 million compared with $40 million for investigating Clinton's sexual peccadiloes). He points out how many people and organisations had reason to fear the Commission's work BUT he says he thinks they got it mostly right.

    You've shot yourself in your own foot.

    Indeed, it is worth reading, for Hamilton’s statements make clear he is nothing but a shill. Perhaps you are right that he cannot be portrayed as a 9-11 skeptic, but he is surely no asset for believers in the official storyline. At any rate, there is little doubt that the resources allocated to his investigation were meager in light of the event they were intended to cover.

    BTW, which of the anonymous assholes are you? I’ve lost track.

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    • Replies: @Anon
    Losing track of you would be like losing track of an elderly rhinoceros stumbling blindly through the swamp.
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  • @Steve Gittelson

    Another very bitter failed writer of the Great American Novel?
     
    Novel? Perish the thought. BS Philosophy, MS Computer Science. No interest in novels at all -- haven't read fiction since a rather dreadful trip to St. Croix in 2007.

    However, in support of, and response to your gratuitous personal attack, based in conspiracy theory hurt feewings ... bite me, loser.

    Paging Parsons…

    One physiologically bound to the official narrative irrespective of its validity. Parson will enthusiastically regurgitate the ON as gospel and ignore anything that contradics it.

    As far as a Parsons is concerned the official narrative is reality. Anyone not in line with the ON is on the outside of reality, those outside this reality are often derided as conspiracy theorist.

    To a Parsons, the only reason why one would disagree with the ON is stupidity, ignorance, gullibility or dishonesty.

    Parsons who put time into debunking alternatives to the ON call themselves skeptics or debunkers. Instead of simply dismissing those who counter the ON claims as conspiracy theorist, crackpots and loons skeptics/debukers will research counter ON claims and give reasons why such claims are wrong.

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  • @Steve Gittelson

    Else work harder on the mute and, gasp on dude.
     
    Let's put it this way: 17 years of conspiracy theory, and what have you -- pardon the expression -- loons got left?

    Nothing.

    Divorce sucks doesn’t it?

    Tell us how the twin towers exploded.

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  • @Twodees Partain
    "The all-wise Buddha of, I don’t know, Seattle, Brooklyn, Philadelphia?"

    More likely Lebanon, KS or Fargo, ND. He has to have this outlet since he has probably gotten his ass whipped from trying his snark out in public on people who could reach him.

    More likely Lebanon, KS or Fargo, ND. He has to have this outlet since he has probably gotten his ass whipped from trying his snark out in public on people who could reach him.

    ROFLMAO. I love you guys — you conspiracy whack-jobs. Fucking nuts from the git-go. Seventeen years go by, the world has moved on long, long ago, yet you focused, dedicated, self-sacrificing seekers after Truth exchange crib notes about phone calls (for the luv of god, tabulating phone calls from 17 years ago, jeezuss!!).

    It is interesting that conspiracy theory loonies each have their own selected homefield — your preferred conspiracy that consumes your, um, “hobby” time. Some of you fruitcakes are probably still hard at work on theories of who really killed Lizzie Borden’s Ma and Pa.

    Go back to your playground. I will leave you all alone now. But, gracious me! what frenetic stupidity! Obsession knows no limits — long proven, and proven again every day.

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    • Replies: @redmudhooch

    you conspiracy whack-jobs. Fucking nuts from the git-go. conspiracy theory loonies frenetic stupidity
     
    Once again, when you cannot win the debate with facts resort to name calling. Weak!
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  • @Anon
    Another asshole who has never been to NYC in his life claiming expertise about the views of Manhattan from Brooklyn

    Who cares what you assholes think

    So, basically you have nothing?

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    • Replies: @Anon
    I have more than you have, a man who lived in NYC and saw it happen.
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  • @tanabear
    EliteComminc: "But neither one of these conclusions is born out by the evidence."

    NIST admitted in their study and analysis of WTC7 that it fell at free-fall for 2.25 seconds or roughly 8 stories. Yet Shyam Sunder, the lead NIST investigator, said that there was resistance provided during the collapse. However, you cannot have free-fall and resistance being provided at the same time. Whether to believe or disbelieve the official is story is very simple.

    Is momentum transfer at free-fall acceleration possible?

    Yes or No.

    I am going to think about this “free fall” issue you have introduced. It is entirely out of context with the discussion at hand.

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  • @Jonathan Revusky

    is there any way to compel consistent use of monikers?
     
    LOL. I also find the whole thing absolutely exasperating! Before, there was the ability just to be "Anonymous" or "Anon" and then Ron figured that was a disaster and a cock-up, which it obviously is, but now you've got Anon #234 and Anon # 432 and the implication is that you're supposed to keep track of these people in your head... Well,... maybe Ron Unz has a privileged kind of mind that can do that, but...

    But the whole thing is just such a total disaster! Even if people use their nicks consistently, it can be bad enough but this is just....

    Indeed. This thread has attracted an astonishing number of Anonymises(sp?), and an astonishing number of Anonymous posts. A quick assessment says almost half the posts originate from an “Anonymous” poster. The vast majority spout views contra your thesis. Hmmm…

    I can’t remember that happening on any other thread. Judging by most of the quality (not all), the Claxon call for “All hands on deck! Stations!” went all the way down to the 3rd & 4th-tiers on this topic.

    In the original discussion, I suggested that Ron’s stand on the truths of 9/11 could be distilled down to the presence of a plausible Betty Ong in the yearbook. He basically Frankly, it would have surprised me if a vaguely plausible Betty Ong wasn’t there, given that fake identities are normally built on genuine originals whose current history and whereabouts are unknown (died, disappeared, emigrated, etc).

    That no plausible Betty Ong appears indicates somebody screwed up, badly. In the original creation of the identity, and more recently in its coverup (?) in the on-line yearbook. It looks for all the world like an tsunami of Anonymises has been tasked to mask that.

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  • Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ximenes

    The general view in the 9/11 Truth community is that all the phone calls allegedly made from hijacked airplanes on that day, including Betty’s, are plainly fake.
     
    There is no 'Truth community,' or more likely most of that community is led by disinformation agents like David Ray Griffin of "Loose Change" producer Dylan Avery.

    Betty Ong is real, and the phone call she made was real. It was made on a seatback airphone, which did exist and were used by many of the 9/11 callers, such as Tom Burnett, who reported hijackers carrying guns to his wife in California from UAL93.

    Ong also reported a shooting on AAL11. That's why her call to her co-worker is so shrouded in mystery. Her call, like most of the others, only validates the official story in that it portrays hijackings being carried out by "Middle Eastern looking" men. Who those men were is still up for grabs. What made Ong's call unique is that she also reported the seat number of one of the hijackers carrying guns and shooting people, and it happened to belong, not to one of the well-known Arabs we were told about, but to an Israeli gentleman named Daniel Lewin, who had once been a member of the elite commando unit Seyeret Metkal.

    Now do you see why so many want us to believe the calls are fake, and that Betty Ong didn't even exist?

    So Betty Ong was the only person who identified an Israeli commando as one of the hijackers who shot people.

    No wonder the Israelis planted stories all over the internet that she didn’t exist.

    And most of the naive credulous internet “ researchers” on this site read those Israeli stories and believe she didn’t exist.

    That’s why I usually comment only about things I have personally done or seen or spoken with a person, such as my friend’s nephew who saw the planes crash into the towers from his Bay Ridge Brooklyn school.

    Betty Ong didn’t ever exist story was obviously planted all over the internet by the Israelis and the internet researcher fools fools believed it because they read it on the internet.

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    • Replies: @Meimou
    Bingo. Expect the MSM to put a spotlight on this, or at least snopes or trash sites like The Daily Beast.

    I wonder if the Ong family will sue Alex Jones too.
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  • @Anon
    Have you thought through the problems of
    1. Having the thermite installed at just the right very different levels for where the planes would later strike the twin towers?
    2. The evidence/prima facie inference that the very different weight above the fire weakened steel in the two towers was the reason one collapsed in a much shorter time than the other? [I trust you are not going to pose as an expert on how heat can weaken steel or other technical matters on which you have no basis for personal belief]?
    3. Why any conspirators would want to add to the risks by having WTC7 deliberately demolished at the time of the major event?
    4. Why Occam's Razor doesn't push the motive of ObL (to have America bogged down in war in Afghanistan) way ahead of any speculative motives involving a chain of events leading to war in Iraq which is far chancier and more complicated?

    Have you thought through the problems of
    1. Having the thermite installed at just the right very different levels for where the planes would later strike the twin towers?

    Why would the thermite need to be installed at just the right levels? explosives were all over the towers.

    2. The evidence/prima facie inference that the very different weight above the fire weakened steel in the two towers was the reason one collapsed in a much shorter time than the other?

    1. Did any of you Parsons ever provide evidence that the fire was hot enough to weaken steel?

    2. Even if it was hot enough to weaken steel why would the tower collapse globally and simultaneously?

    3.The twin towers did not simply collapse, the top of the towers exploded, debris clearly was ejected from the towers. The fact that theses ejections were accompanied by sounds that resemble explosions don’t help your case

    3. Why any conspirators would want to add to the risks by having WTC7 deliberately demolished at the time of the major event?

    Why would OBL think he could pull off 911? How did he know one would call the FBI when a bunch of Arabs wanted to learn how to fly a plane but not take off.?

    How did he know NORAAD wouldn’t shoot down the plane?

    [I trust you are not going to pose as an expert on how heat can weaken steel or other technical matters on which you have no basis for personal belief]

    It doesn’t take specialized knowledge to know the official story is nonsense, not that you care about the opinion of experts that contradict the official narrative.

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  • @Anon
    Original source, someone who stood in that school yard and saw the first plane crash into the tower and saw the second plane from his classroom windows.

    It’s a high school in the Bay ridge neighborhood

    Brooklyn is right across the river from manhattan and the towers could be seen from most of Brooklyn. So can much of manhattans skyline be seen from Brooklyn

    Sooo If something is not on the internet it never happened, never existed?

    Have none of you people ever heard of original sources?

    At least ten or fifteen people saw airplanes hit the buildings. There are even videos of planes hitting the buildings. And it was on live TV. Why do you make a big deal of some one in Brooklyn in a schoolyard see a plane hit the building? Yes you can see Manhattan from Brooklyn. So What? What does that prove? It was on television. Is that not enough for you?

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    • Replies: @Anon
    Because Sparkon denies the towers fell despite various people present in Manhattan or across the river in Brooklyn seeing the planes crash into the buildings.

    It’s not just this thread. Many times over the years someone posts that he or she was in Manhattan that day and saw the planes and the towers fall.

    Sparkon always jumps in and claims the poster didn’t see anything and nothing happened in Manhattan that day.

    He or she only believes what he or she reads in the internet. That’s why I mentioned the man who saw the event happening across the river from his Brooklyn school.
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  • @Anon
    I'm afraid even some of the dimmer bulbs on UR threads might groan like a Trump staffer at POTUS's latest egregious tweet when they see how pathetic and feeble you are willing to prove yourself.

    You need your old Grade 1 teacher to stop you saying you won't try answering my observation about the lack of numbers added to the original architects & engineers signatories because I would (you suppose) manipulate the criterion of "credibility". Oh don't make your even half sharp allies cringe. Whatever inference can be drawn from the facts I asserted could only be countered by showing that my premise was wrong. By omission indeed you can be taken to have admitted that the a&e worthies have failed to get any more eager beavers to sign up after the initial rush of blood to the head. To be perfectly clear for the simpleminded, you could have answered me with the actual figures of signatories.

    Watch the videos, use your brain. It doesn’t take a real genius to see.

    Does that look like an explosion or a collapse?

    Its really not that hard.

    Why is it hard to believe that not a lot of people would jump at the chance to put their career/life on the line? To speak out against the people that did this, to challenge the narrative, just look what the media can do to people who do.

    It takes a very brave person to do what those 3000 A&E have done, I get the sense you probably wouldn’t.

    And again, if they would do evil on the level of USS Liberty and Lavon Affair, why wouldn’t they do this?

    If Liberty would have been sunk, the sailors killed, anyone who questioned that would be labeled a conspiracy theorist too.

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    • Replies: @Anon
    It looks like the result of a very heavy weight - many storeys of the buildings - falling on to a temporarily resisting structure which includes a modest but substantial amount of concrete. Not surprising because that's whst happened.

    As to the LIberty isn't it one of the strongest arguments against the extreme conspiracy version that having to kill everyone made it too risky?
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  • Anonymous[249] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ximenes

    The general view in the 9/11 Truth community is that all the phone calls allegedly made from hijacked airplanes on that day, including Betty’s, are plainly fake.
     
    There is no 'Truth community,' or more likely most of that community is led by disinformation agents like David Ray Griffin of "Loose Change" producer Dylan Avery.

    Betty Ong is real, and the phone call she made was real. It was made on a seatback airphone, which did exist and were used by many of the 9/11 callers, such as Tom Burnett, who reported hijackers carrying guns to his wife in California from UAL93.

    Ong also reported a shooting on AAL11. That's why her call to her co-worker is so shrouded in mystery. Her call, like most of the others, only validates the official story in that it portrays hijackings being carried out by "Middle Eastern looking" men. Who those men were is still up for grabs. What made Ong's call unique is that she also reported the seat number of one of the hijackers carrying guns and shooting people, and it happened to belong, not to one of the well-known Arabs we were told about, but to an Israeli gentleman named Daniel Lewin, who had once been a member of the elite commando unit Seyeret Metkal.

    Now do you see why so many want us to believe the calls are fake, and that Betty Ong didn't even exist?

    Betty Ong is real, and the phone call she made was real. It was made on a seatback airphone,

    Cabin staff (of course) have their own radio communications facilities separate from the optional “airphone” system to talk to ground crew. Equally, and of course, they have well-rehearsed emergency procedures that are presumably not reliant on airphones that may not be available at all.

    It is at least puzzling that established communications procedures for emergencies were not followed.

    Similarly, the third-hand way in which the Betty Ong call was supposedly reduced to writing does not pass the smell test. Why was the call not transferred directly to a senior airline official in charge of security/hijacking issues?

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    • Replies: @Anon
    Maybe there was not a senior official in charge of hijackings

    I wouldn’t be surprised.
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  • @Erebus

    I find it almost hard to believe that Ron Unz is so unopen to this idea being true. He seems to be totally on board with 911–why can’t he leap any further?
     
    I don't find it odd at all.

    In a nutshell, humans live, not in the Newtonian world, but in a narrative. They need the meaning(s) that only a narrative can lend to the cold interactions of forces and masses. The narratives get more and more complex as one goes up the food chain. At the socio-political level they can get complex indeed, and the people who have seen success within the prevailing socio-political narrative have the most invested in it. Typically, they're are also the ones best equipped to defend it.

    What plebes like us believe doesn't matter. "The Ruling classes" have ever depended on the total capitulation of the intelligentsia, political, and upper economic classes to the narrative for their power. That is the great insight of Orwell's 2+2=5. Belief in an absurdity signifies total capitulation, even when it's feigned.

    I've (literally) watched competent, successful engineers do the maths on the collapse of the towers, stare at the results, and reject them. Some broke contact with me.

    In this Betty Ong yearbook case, we see the process in action. Presented with increasingly persuasive evidence, Ron's went from "85-90%" certainty of her existence to "90-95%". If a real original copy equally or more compelling were to be put in front of him, it wouldn't surprise me much if he simply walked away from the wager. The narrative will defend itself any way it can.

    What plebes like us believe doesn’t matter. “The Ruling classes” have ever depended on the total capitulation of the intelligentsia, political, and upper economic classes to the narrative for their power.

    It must matter or they wouldn’t go through all of this nonsense. They would just do it.
    The amount of sock puppets/bots/trolls sent to articles like this tell me that it does matter. I get the feeling they’re pretty worried lately.
    They wouldn’t be silencing fre speech, alternative views if it didn’t matter either. The level of censorship lately also tells me that they are concerned.
    I think they may be a day late and a shekel short though, even my 80 something year old neighbor is asking me where on the web to go for real news, he’s a real Fox News kind of guy too, would’ve never expected him to ask me the kind of questions he was asking recently… uhh ohhh!

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    • Agree: Meimou
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  • @Beefcake the Mighty
    Your word is not good enough.

    Another asshole who has never been to NYC in his life claiming expertise about the views of Manhattan from Brooklyn

    Who cares what you assholes think

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    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
    So, basically you have nothing?
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  • Anonymous[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @Miro23

    I would only trust Congressmen to stay bought but no one is going to have told them that 9/11 was a put up job or that they had to cover for Israel or the CIA so they probably did their best with expert witnesses and the evidence they heard about what, physically, happened. A bit like a rather superior quality jury.
     
    In any political environment (and most organizations are political to some extent) there's an awareness of OK subjects and Not-OK subjects of conversation - often related to the organizational power structure. Go around badmouthing the managing director and you might get fired.

    Congress is a hyper-political environment, and Congressmen understand perfectly the Congressional power structure - and they know better than to question the official account of 9/11. They probably even try to cleanse it from their thoughts.

    That’s all very general. Try reading the interview with Lee Hamilton who made the misrepresented statement about being set up to fail.

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  • Anonymous[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mike P
    Lee Hamilton, the co-chair of the commission, said that it was set up to fail.

    "Superior quality jury" my foot. You are nothing but a hired shill. What is the weather like in Tel Aviv?

    Ah, another one of the intellectually shortwinded brigade blusters away. Thanks for reminding me of that Lee Hamilton quote and causing me to find and read the whole interview. You should do it if you are honest. And do it again if you have a memory lapse.

    He actually confirms the validity of the comment you purport to reply to.

    He complains about the time pressure and the limitation on their resources ($3 million compared with $40 million for investigating Clinton’s sexual peccadiloes). He points out how many people and organisations had reason to fear the Commission’s work BUT he says he thinks they got it mostly right.

    You’ve shot yourself in your own foot.

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    • Troll: Mike P
    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
    Indeed, it is worth reading, for Hamilton’s statements make clear he is nothing but a shill. Perhaps you are right that he cannot be portrayed as a 9-11 skeptic, but he is surely no asset for believers in the official storyline. At any rate, there is little doubt that the resources allocated to his investigation were meager in light of the event they were intended to cover.

    BTW, which of the anonymous assholes are you? I’ve lost track.

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  • Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ximenes

    The general view in the 9/11 Truth community is that all the phone calls allegedly made from hijacked airplanes on that day, including Betty’s, are plainly fake.
     
    There is no 'Truth community,' or more likely most of that community is led by disinformation agents like David Ray Griffin of "Loose Change" producer Dylan Avery.

    Betty Ong is real, and the phone call she made was real. It was made on a seatback airphone, which did exist and were used by many of the 9/11 callers, such as Tom Burnett, who reported hijackers carrying guns to his wife in California from UAL93.

    Ong also reported a shooting on AAL11. That's why her call to her co-worker is so shrouded in mystery. Her call, like most of the others, only validates the official story in that it portrays hijackings being carried out by "Middle Eastern looking" men. Who those men were is still up for grabs. What made Ong's call unique is that she also reported the seat number of one of the hijackers carrying guns and shooting people, and it happened to belong, not to one of the well-known Arabs we were told about, but to an Israeli gentleman named Daniel Lewin, who had once been a member of the elite commando unit Seyeret Metkal.

    Now do you see why so many want us to believe the calls are fake, and that Betty Ong didn't even exist?

    OMG. Thank you so much for the information. That’s the first real proof that Israel was involved I’ve heard.

    I always wondered why, of all the people who died that day the only person claimed not to exist is Betty Ong

    I’m going to add it my list a paper and print list so it doesn’t disappear.

    Thank you so much.

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