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    As medical care costs inexorably rise, a particularly perplexing problem is how to treat destitute patients whose illnesses are largely self-inflicted. What do you do with those who gorge themselves into diabetes while unable to pay a nickel for treatment? Current policy provides government-supplied medical care even if the sick person continues the unhealthy behavior....
  • I like this idea. We need more doctors and healers, too. Not all folk remedies work but it’s better than nothing. Plus, these folk or holistic cures could be a first step. If there is no success, then the patient could see a more modern doctor. As it is, our healthcare system is bogged down with too much insurance and paperwork and too many administrators and added costs. Experimentation is sorely needed. It time to break the AMA’s monopoly.

    I support Weissberg’s innovative, multi-cultural approach to healthcare; and it needn’t be designed only for African-Americans. Any American could avail themself of these affordable, traditional options.

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  • Please. You’re either prevaricating or unfamiliar with his pile of poorly written columns.

    In contrast to your own poorly thought-out anonymous commentary?

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • anonymous[340] • Disclaimer says:
    @MarkinLA
    I think that this was supposed to be in the vein of "A Modest Proposal" and not something serious.

    Please. You’re either prevaricating or unfamiliar with his pile of poorly written columns.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @anonymous
    No matter what Mr. Weissberg purports to write about, his purpose is nearly always to denigrate black people, often - as here - by mocking primitive Africans.

    This witless, silly column seems to have been written from the middle, the whack-a-blackery wrapped in a Chinese/Dominican introduction and conclusion. Or maybe that was to pad the thing out to a desired length, when he couldn't come up with another goofy African custom. In fairness, someone has this time around edited his mess for misspellings and typos.

    Why is Mr. Weissberg so obsessed with black people?

    I think that this was supposed to be in the vein of “A Modest Proposal” and not something serious.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonymous
    Please. You’re either prevaricating or unfamiliar with his pile of poorly written columns.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • anonymous[340] • Disclaimer says:

    No matter what Mr. Weissberg purports to write about, his purpose is nearly always to denigrate black people, often – as here – by mocking primitive Africans.

    This witless, silly column seems to have been written from the middle, the whack-a-blackery wrapped in a Chinese/Dominican introduction and conclusion. Or maybe that was to pad the thing out to a desired length, when he couldn’t come up with another goofy African custom. In fairness, someone has this time around edited his mess for misspellings and typos.

    Why is Mr. Weissberg so obsessed with black people?

    Read More
    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    I think that this was supposed to be in the vein of "A Modest Proposal" and not something serious.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • African Americans sleep on average almost an hour less than do Euro Americans. The two groups have mean sleep times of 6.05 hours and 6.85 hours. This finding has recently been discussed by Brian Resnick in National Journal and by our Steve Sailer. Researchers reject a genetic explanation: "There is a consensus that innate biological...
  • Crystal Gayle, American country music singer (source). In humans of Eurasian origin, head hair can grow down to the mid-back and even farther. Long silky hair must have evolved relatively late, certainly no earlier than the last 50,000 years. All of us are born pale, and this infant pallor is striking in otherwise dark-skinned families....
  • @Sean
    Body hair is not likely to be due to sexual selection of women. Europeans have less body hair than other peoples. North Europeans have less body hair than Southern Europeans. (See here).

    Short Anagen Syndrome is not being able to grow long scalp hair. Blonde children tend to get it; their hair becomes a good length at puberty.

    Europeans have more scalp hair density, and blond(e)s have the most of all with 20% more scalp hairs per centimetre. (See here).

    To look more feminine is to look “white.”

    Straight hair is not different from common looking beast hair (dogs e.g afghan dogs). No life to it just straight that is.

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  • African Americans sleep on average almost an hour less than do Euro Americans. The two groups have mean sleep times of 6.05 hours and 6.85 hours. This finding has recently been discussed by Brian Resnick in National Journal and by our Steve Sailer. Researchers reject a genetic explanation: "There is a consensus that innate biological...
  • Could be the reason they live such slothful lives rife with violence. Hard to figure out why the white man behaves the he does! I personally think it has to do with a genetic predisposition to lash out in hatred.
    The white man has only been civilized, for at best 5 centuries. Tens of thousands of years they lived as virtual land roaming savage animals. Natural selection selected the most violent psycopathic of the race that was successful in pro creating with as many negresess (their light skinned offspring) they could furthering their primitive behavior. It is futile to even attempt it. Anywhere the white man rests his head is an area that has experienced chaos and violence. From Africa to Europe, the white man leaves a wake destruction in its path.

    Just look at the destruction of native peoples all over the world! Not all of the white people are bad but I am sure the many mean well in their cognitive dissonant personalities as they want the best for all citizens and not just the ones who happen to have stolen power over the ages.

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  • In my last column, I reviewed the findings of Butovskaya et al. (2015) on testosterone and polygyny in two East African peoples: - Testosterone levels were higher in the polygynous Datoga than in the monogamous Hadza. This difference is innate. - Datoga men were more aggressive than Hadza men on all measures used (physical aggression,...
  • @Peter Frost
    No, those numbers were not adjusted for age

    Ignore that last sentence. It was part of an earlier effort of mine to explain that adjustment for Tanner stage is not the same thing as adjusting for age.

    “In other words, black men in mid-adulthood had higher testosterone levels than did black men in early adulthood. That difference was not an artefact of statistical adjustment. It was real.”

    Mazur’s re-anaysis does not appear to show this. The levels both black and white men are higher in early than mid-adulthood in his scatterplot.
    Nor does the excerpt you quoted seem to to state that mid-adulthood levels were higher.

    http://racehist.blogspot.com/2009/10/can-racial-differences-in-circulating.html

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  • No, those numbers were not adjusted for age

    Ignore that last sentence. It was part of an earlier effort of mine to explain that adjustment for Tanner stage is not the same thing as adjusting for age.

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    • Replies: @Jm8
    "In other words, black men in mid-adulthood had higher testosterone levels than did black men in early adulthood. That difference was not an artefact of statistical adjustment. It was real."


    Mazur's re-anaysis does not appear to show this. The levels both black and white men are higher in early than mid-adulthood in his scatterplot.
    Nor does the excerpt you quoted seem to to state that mid-adulthood levels were higher.

    http://racehist.blogspot.com/2009/10/can-racial-differences-in-circulating.html
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  • They may have Pygmy admixture but I would doubt they have much more that most bantu Groups from the region

    Actually, there is considerably more intermarriage between the Lese (Bantu) and the Efe (pygmies) than is the case in other groups of the region.

    Why is there more intermarriage among the Efe and Lese than between other farmer and forager groups? (p. 235)

    https://books.google.ca/books?hl=fr&lr=&id=pCJOQB-4GyQC&oi=fnd&pg=PA215&dq=lese+intermarriage&ots=0c6_jw7-IK&sig=EICTD9LOWARkMCskccnkVvFDnfg#v=onepage&q=lese%20intermarriage&f=false

    According to one commenter this is because: “The source of the “bias” was obvious: the numbers were adjusted for age.

    The means of the three age categories were not adjusted for age:

    We evaluated racial/ethnic differences in the hormones and SHBG 1) overall after adjusting for age and 2) within three age categories reflecting hypothesized hormonal transitions through life: early adulthood (20–44 yr old), mid-adulthood (45–69 yr old), and late adulthood (70
    yr old).

    In other words, black men in mid-adulthood had higher testosterone levels than did black men in early adulthood. That difference was not an artefact of statistical adjustment. It was real.

    “In reality, large, representative US samples show minimal or no black-white differences

    You’re simply repeating a conclusion that is based on the faulty premises I outlined in my column. The black-white difference in testosterone is concentrated in teenagers and young adults. It is not significant in middle-aged adults, and there is evidence that it actually reverses in older age groups. If you look at adults in general, you will see no difference.

    Below refers to a study which adjusts for both age and tanner stage

    If you control for Tanner stage, you’re comparing younger black teenage males with older white teenage males. You’re no longer comparing subjects of the same age. As I stated in my column, it may be that the black-white testosterone difference is partly explained by blacks maturing sexually at an earlier age. But this would not explain why the testosterone advantage persists beyond adolescence.

    No, those numbers were not adjusted for age. They were taken from Table 1 and not Table 2 (which are adjusted for age)

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  • Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I cannot get the print function to work properly. Even if I reduce scaling to 80 % and print in landscape mode, I still find the last word(s) of each line missing in my printout. I have a Mac and use Safari for a browser.
    Thanks in advance for advice.

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  • In a mixed group, women become quieter, less assertive, and more compliant. This deference is shown only to men and not to other women in the group. A related phenomenon is the sex gap in self-esteem: women tend to feel less self-esteem in all social settings. The gap begins at puberty and is greatest in...
  • @helena
    In other words, Euros could develop diaspora mentality and strong sense of identity with positive messages. The goal now can only be salvaging some sort of self-government, if not at national level, then at local level; clubs and societies with international links. And Euros can be the bigger man and accept everyone with some Euro heritage as part of the big family. Shrink and expire or grow and expand.


    Sean,
    (OT), you're keen on the homo-germ hypothesis, I think, apologies if not. I had a thought yesterday that I'd like to share -
    -do you think it is possible that homosexuality could be a side-effect of racial mixing? It's an observation that makes me wonder but, logically, I can imagine how that might work; maybe we are 'programmed' within a defined set of gender-genes that could get shaken about by racial mixing?

    No, they can go back to their roots & ethnically cleanse anyone who’s not a part of that bloodline.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danu_(Asura)

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  • In my last column, I reviewed the findings of Butovskaya et al. (2015) on testosterone and polygyny in two East African peoples: - Testosterone levels were higher in the polygynous Datoga than in the monogamous Hadza. This difference is innate. - Datoga men were more aggressive than Hadza men on all measures used (physical aggression,...
  • @Jm8
    "Rohrmann et al. (2007)

    This study concluded that “contrary to the postulated racial difference, testosterone concentrations did not differ notably between black and white men.”

    This study also found that 45-69 year old black men have higher testosterone levels (5.62 ng/ml) than do 20-44 year old black men (5.35 ng/ml). Such a finding is paradoxical and indicates a faulty dataset."

    According to one commenter this is because:

    "The source of the "bias" was obvious: the numbers were adjusted for age.
    Mazur looked at the same data without adjustments, and his plot show testosterone declining with age (and extremely minimal black-white differences in those under 30)."

    http://racehist.blogspot.com/2009/10/can-racial-differences-in-circulating.html

    "In reality, large, representative US samples show minimal or no black-white differences in T. Using NHANES III data, Rohrmann et al. find elevated estrogen but not testosterone in black males. A recent reanalysis by Mazur..., in which Mazur examines the same data but applies no sampling weights, finds slightly elevated T in blacks. Mazur, reviewing the results of his and other studies, nonetheless concludes:

    "Despite inconsistencies among studies, all agree that there are no major, general differences in T or SHBG (or calculated BioT) among the ethnic groups that have been studied.""

    Below refers to a a study which adjusts for both age and tanner stage (in Black White, and Mexican adolescent males in the US):

    http://racehist.blogspot.com/2013/04/no-evidence-for-higher-testosterone-in.html

    Racial/ethnic differences in serum sex steroid hormone concentrations in US adolescent males.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23354421

    “We measured serum testosterone, estradiol, and sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) by immunoassay in 134 males aged 12-19 in NHANES III. Mean concentrations were compared by race/ethnicity adjusting for age, Tanner stage, percent body fat, waist, physical activity, tobacco smoke, and the other hormones.

    ….After multivariable adjustment, in the 12-15-year-old males, testosterone concentration was lower in non-Hispanic blacks than whites (p = 0.043), SHBG concentration did not significantly differ between the two groups. Mexican-Americans had the highest testosterone (versus non-Hispanic black: p = 0.002) and lowest SHBG (versus non-Hispanic white: p = 0.010; versus non-Hispanic black: p = 0.047) concentrations. Estradiol concentration was lower in non-Hispanic blacks (p = 0.11) and Mexican-Americans (p = 0.033) compared with non-Hispanic whites. After multivariable adjustment, in the 16-19-year-old males, testosterone, estradiol, and SHBG concentrations did not differ between non-Hispanic blacks and whites. Mexican-Americans had the highest testosterone concentration (versus non-Hispanic white: p = 0.08), but did not differ from the other groups on estradiol and SHBG concentrations. In both age groups, these patterns were generally present, but less pronounced after adjusting for age and Tanner stage only.”

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  • “Rohrmann et al. (2007)

    This study concluded that “contrary to the postulated racial difference, testosterone concentrations did not differ notably between black and white men.”

    This study also found that 45-69 year old black men have higher testosterone levels (5.62 ng/ml) than do 20-44 year old black men (5.35 ng/ml). Such a finding is paradoxical and indicates a faulty dataset.”

    According to one commenter this is because:

    “The source of the “bias” was obvious: the numbers were adjusted for age.
    Mazur looked at the same data without adjustments, and his plot show testosterone declining with age (and extremely minimal black-white differences in those under 30).”

    http://racehist.blogspot.com/2009/10/can-racial-differences-in-circulating.html

    “In reality, large, representative US samples show minimal or no black-white differences in T. Using NHANES III data, Rohrmann et al. find elevated estrogen but not testosterone in black males. A recent reanalysis by Mazur…, in which Mazur examines the same data but applies no sampling weights, finds slightly elevated T in blacks. Mazur, reviewing the results of his and other studies, nonetheless concludes:

    “Despite inconsistencies among studies, all agree that there are no major, general differences in T or SHBG (or calculated BioT) among the ethnic groups that have been studied.””

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    • Replies: @Jm8
    Below refers to a a study which adjusts for both age and tanner stage (in Black White, and Mexican adolescent males in the US):

    http://racehist.blogspot.com/2013/04/no-evidence-for-higher-testosterone-in.html

    Racial/ethnic differences in serum sex steroid hormone concentrations in US adolescent males.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23354421

    "We measured serum testosterone, estradiol, and sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) by immunoassay in 134 males aged 12-19 in NHANES III. Mean concentrations were compared by race/ethnicity adjusting for age, Tanner stage, percent body fat, waist, physical activity, tobacco smoke, and the other hormones.

    ....After multivariable adjustment, in the 12-15-year-old males, testosterone concentration was lower in non-Hispanic blacks than whites (p = 0.043), SHBG concentration did not significantly differ between the two groups. Mexican-Americans had the highest testosterone (versus non-Hispanic black: p = 0.002) and lowest SHBG (versus non-Hispanic white: p = 0.010; versus non-Hispanic black: p = 0.047) concentrations. Estradiol concentration was lower in non-Hispanic blacks (p = 0.11) and Mexican-Americans (p = 0.033) compared with non-Hispanic whites. After multivariable adjustment, in the 16-19-year-old males, testosterone, estradiol, and SHBG concentrations did not differ between non-Hispanic blacks and whites. Mexican-Americans had the highest testosterone concentration (versus non-Hispanic white: p = 0.08), but did not differ from the other groups on estradiol and SHBG concentrations. In both age groups, these patterns were generally present, but less pronounced after adjusting for age and Tanner stage only."
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  • “The Congolese participants were likewise unrepresentative of Congolese in general. They were Lese who inhabit the Ituri forest in proximity to the Efe pygmies. Many Lese are, in fact, partly of pygmy ancestry.”

    They may have Pygmy admixture but I would doubt they have much more that most bantu Groups from the region(Who usually have a small amount of Pygmy admixture since Pygmies/ancestral Pygmies were the first people of Central Africa), and because the populations of Pygmy tribes(being nomadic hunter gatherers) are usually much smaller than those neighboring settled groups.

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  • In a mixed group, women become quieter, less assertive, and more compliant. This deference is shown only to men and not to other women in the group. A related phenomenon is the sex gap in self-esteem: women tend to feel less self-esteem in all social settings. The gap begins at puberty and is greatest in...
  • […] I am reminded here of Peter Frost’s On the Adaptive Value of “Aw Shucks:” […]

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  • In my last column, I reviewed the findings of Butovskaya et al. (2015) on testosterone and polygyny in two East African peoples: - Testosterone levels were higher in the polygynous Datoga than in the monogamous Hadza. This difference is innate. - Datoga men were more aggressive than Hadza men on all measures used (physical aggression,...
  • @Rehmat
    @anon

    Your imagination is not based on facts. West Germany allowed polygamy after WWII to decrease German widows and orphan being forced to prostitution. If more Jews had practiced polygamy instead of having one or two women in closet - their population would have been more than 13 million after 3500 years.

    A 2009 study, entitled 'The Paradox of Declining Female Happiness,' conducted by professors Betsey Stevenson and Justin Wolfers (University of Pennsylvania) for the Social Science Research Network (SSRN) – concludes that though American women are better off economically since 1970s – socially they feel more miserable than before….. The women who have been to a women shelter (there are 300 of those in Canada as compared to none for the men) – will tell you how callously they are treated by the hags employed there. Distressed women are pressured to end their marriages and are offered help and resources to do so. Feminists are not interested in the welfare of women. They rely on domestic violence for their cushy jobs and to emasculate men – by portraying them as abusers….”

    http://rehmat1.com/2009/10/17/study-american-women-are-not-happy/

    West Germany allowed polygamy after WWII to decrease German widows and orphan being forced to prostitution.
    This seems inaccurate. What people did PRIVATELY in the post-war era is their own business, but neither the West German constitution or laws allowed polygamy.

    You could make a case for the Hitler regime rather than postwar. Though monogamy was still the “official” line, polygamy was tolerated, sometimes encouraged.

    “Although monogamy was the official
    marriage from of Nazi Germany, the
    society in effect, turned toward
    polygamy because Aryan males were
    encouraged to beget Aryan children with
    as many racially qualified women as
    possible- in and out of wedlock.”
    –Young-Bruehl (2002) The anatomy
    of prejudices).

    According to The Fuherer in his own words:

    “Let’s remember that after the Thirty
    Years War polygamy was tolerated, so
    that it was thanks to the illegitimate
    child that the nations recovered its
    strength.”
    –Adolf Hitler

    “As long as we have in Germany two and a half
    million women vowed to celibacy, we shall be
    forbidden to despise the child born out of wedlock.”
    –Adolf Hitler

    Quoted in: L. Pine, 1999, Nazi family Policy

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  • @FounderChurch
    Plural Wives is widely approved of in both the Old and New Testaments, and only the insistence of the Emperor of Rome when he made the Christian Church the official religion of the Empire pushed the Church into caving in on this issue, and adopt the Roman law of one wife as Christian law. For more info Google "FounderChurch Portal"

    You are wrong there. Plural wives are not approved in the New testament. Can you quote from the New testament where this alleged approval is?

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  • @Jm8
    "Extraversion may assist a reproductive strategy of seducing women, rather than providing for them."

    In most African cultures a major requirement was the ability to pay a traditional bride price to the prospective bride's family(which they might be required to return the case of a divorce). In some tribes bride wealth (for a first wife) might be be contributed by a single man's relatives, but the need for some young men to work to accumulate their own before marrying also contributed to later male marriage ages.

    In most African cultures a major requirement was the ability to pay a traditional bride price to the prospective bride’s family(which they might be required to return the case of a divorce). In some tribes bride wealth (for a first wife) might be be contributed by a single man’s relatives, but the need for some young men to work to accumulate their own before marrying also contributed to later male marriage ages.

    Extraversion as Frost says can help in the seduction game- the more aggressive, on the average will see greater success. But you are correct- the traditional dowry required hard work to earn enough to acquire a bride. If the full amount was not forthcoming up front then bride-service was often used- such as herding cattle for a number of years or whatever agreed period. Interestingly the Bible shows Jacob serving 7 years for his bride Rachael. In some tribes one key grounds for divorce after the marriage was non-support.

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  • @Stephen R. Diamond

    It’s really stupid to think schizophrenia is mainly related to paternal mutations rather that testosterone levels, when no one gets it before adolescence.
     
    Not so. Childhood schizoprenia can be diagnosed between the ages of 7 and 13. (The same diagnostic criteria are applied as are to adults.) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pediatric_schizophrenia .

    And then some schizoprenias first appear after testosterone levels have declined. (The paranoid form in particular.)

    Indeed. The notion that schizophrenia is mainly the product of testosterone is both dubious and simplistic. In fact schiz has a complex number of causes – and environmental factors weigh heavily. In fact to show how complex the subject is, some studies indicate that LOW not high testosterone may be a factor in schiz, leading to so called “Testosterone Boosters” therapy.

    “Recent neuroendocrinological studies have suggested that gonadal sex hormones play a significant role in the pathophysiology of schizophrenia. Low testosterone levels are also associated with negative symptoms in chronic schizophrenia. Patients receiving treatment for schizophrenia or schizoaffective disorder also show high rates of sexual dysfunction. Studies suggest that testosterone augmentation may play a potential therapeutic role in these patients.” —- Agarwal 2013. High prevalence of low testosterone levels in male patients with schizophrenia. European Psychiatry. Vol 28, 2013

    Other data again show the complexity involved rather than simplistic claims. For example, some studies show that individuals who had previous fighting knowledge continue to be aggressive AFTER testosterne levels are REDUCED. (L. Finley, Encyc of Juv Violence, 2006) Your continued use of the “testosterone factor” as some sort of negative “marker” on black people is not only misguided but an example of naively mistaking correlation with causation.

    Indeed, some studies show aggression associated with LOW testosterone levels, when certain other medical conditions are involved. Numerous other researchers have FAILED to replicate claimed testosterone-violence links, whether in juvenile or adult populations (Alvarez and Bachman 2007). In fact the literature on the field is very mixed on the issue. (Violence: the enduring problem. By Alex Alvarez, Ronet Bachman. 2007) Says one standard textbook:

    “In fact, empirical research shows little if any direct linkage between testosterone and physical aggressiveness.” (Walsh and Beaver, 2008, Biosocial crimnology).

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  • African Americans sleep on average almost an hour less than do Euro Americans. The two groups have mean sleep times of 6.05 hours and 6.85 hours. This finding has recently been discussed by Brian Resnick in National Journal and by our Steve Sailer. Researchers reject a genetic explanation: "There is a consensus that innate biological...
  • @joe webb
    I live near Stanford U. I used to mess with my sleep cuz of work schedules and thus paid attention to Stanford Sleep Center info.

    Last time I checked, they recommended 8 to 9 hours sleep for long life and they liked naps.

    I am retired and allow myself as much sleep as my body wants. Stanford Sleep Center took the position that most people do not get enough sleep and rest. Most folks perceive me as 15 and sometimes more years younger than I am.

    Never smoked, don't drink, moderate exercise and allow myself as much sleep as my body wants. I recommend it. Nothing like a fully rested body and mind.

    Which gets me to work and stress. I think people get worn out and aged by overwork and stress.
    Which also contributes to alcohol etc. use. I have known a couple folks who would not let themselves get more than 5 hours of sleep. They always looked bad and dunno about their longevity.

    Joe Webb

    Well said.

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  • @Son of Dixie
    Could be the reason they live such slothful lives rife with violence. Hard to figure out why the African behaves the he does. I personally think it has to do with a genetic predisposition to lash out in hatred. The negroid also is extremely sexually active, if I m not mistaken, black females on average have more testosterone then Asain males. Black women are very sexually aggressive. It is not uncommon in black inner city areas for black girls to be having sex at age 12. I think is do to high infant mortality deaths in Africa, they evolved to mass produce children because so many would die at a young age.
    Prior to colonization the African lived as basically an animal without any medicine or technology. The African has only been civilized for a few centuries. Tens of thousands of years they lived as virtual land roaming savage animals. Natural selection selected the most violent psycopathic of the race that was successful in pro creating with as many negresess they could furthering their primitive behavior. Their is so pacifying or domesticating nature's creation of the negro. It is futile to even attempt it. Anywhere the negro rests his head is an area that has experienced chaos and violence. From Africa to Europe, the negroid leaves a wake destruction in its path.

    Clearly white plantation owners and their white employees failed lamentably in attempting the needed rate of miscegenation.

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  • @joe webb
    I hear that the brain requires a relatively large amount of energy compared to other organs.

    An example of that is the scientific racialist position that a large and intelligent brain becomes a relative deficit when the owner of such a brain is surrounded by dummies and consequently a society that does not have much to think about. The deficit was, as I recall, merely that of squandering of precious calories on a brain that gobbles up calories even when just idling in traffic like a muscle-car guzzling gas in gridlock. In a poor society, calories are hard come by and the smartie unlucky enough to be born into such a society is at risk, in the first place, of not having enough to eat, and this can lead to other deficits.

    Personally as an owner of a fairly well-endowed brain, I am heavily dependent on eating enough to keep said brain happy, but also in need of a lot of sleep, at least 8 hours and usually 9.

    As for dream activity, those dreams that I recall are pedestrian and of no apparent relatedness to my daily routine. The main exception being women who have made some kind of emotional impact. Politics, etc. which I think about far more than women, never appears in my dreams.

    Perhaps naively, I see sleep as merely rest and nothing more. Another observed phenomenon personally is listening to music when I am tired. I listen to mostly classical with a bit of straight ahead jazz now and then. I don't want to listen to music when I am tired. My brain is tired and does not want to process it. It is that simple. It wants to rest and go to sleep.

    What is also very interesting is how a short nap can revive me. This can I suppose be seen as some kind of "Unconscious" settling of accounts, or as merely profound rest. I put my money on the latter.

    Joe Webb

    You make an interesting point about music. I agree that listening to classical music is not good for going to sleep. Indeed the best soporific I have found is the news, repeated as it usually is without new and exciting news. An exception I found was the Canadian news which was so irritatingly boring that it had the opposite to the desired effect. The BBC followed by Deutsche Welle was fine….

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  • @Intelligent Dasein
    Sleep is not really about preserving energy or recharging the body's physical batteries, although these can be secondary effects of sleep. The primary and quintessential purpose of sleep, however, is maintaining proper mental functioning.

    We sleep so that we may dream. We dream so that we may integrate new sensory perceptions into our existing patterns of behavior and respond accordingly to an ever-changing environment. This is a necessity of animal existence.

    Plant life is defined by the nutritive faculty only and is the simplest form of life. Plants neither sense, move, nor reason; they just take in nourishment and grow, all of it unconsciously. A plant is not entirely separate from the landscape and setting in which it appears; rather it forms a part of that setting. Using a bit of poetic license, one might say that the plant is an extension from the soil in which it grows. It is the soil in which it grows--the life bearing capacity of the soil at highest potential.

    Animal life is defined by the both the nutritive and sensory faculties. Animals also take in nourishment and grow (indeed, the animal "body," considered in abstraction, is just a plant); but in addition to the body there is also the animal "self." Unlike the plant, every free-living animal is an individual, a microcosm within a macrocosm, and stands separate and apart from its environment. The ability to sense means that there is a distinction between that who senses and everything else in creation. The animal is not unconscious like the plant; it has to care for itself. It senses, and it must respond to that which it perceives. Such responses we call "motion," using the word in an expansive sense. Thus sensory perception and motion go together.

    In the higher animals, the interface between the microcosm and the macrocosm increasingly becomes embodied in the functioning of the nervous system, whose job it is to integrate the impressions left on the sense organs and to modulate the organism's responses to them. The nervous system's ability to perform this function, however, is not unlimited. When the organism can no longer receive sense impressions or generate responses, tiredness is experienced and sleep ensues. The body becomes a plant again; and the mind, temporarily cut off from pressing demands, is free to digest the material of the day.

    For human beings there is an additional element. Human life is defined by the nutritive, sensory, and rational faculties--man is the rational animal. Therefore, in addition to the mere sense impressions of the animals there is added to our experience the whole new dimension of words and concepts. This is what gives human dreams their particularly surreal quality, as the relationship between material sense impressions and immaterial concepts is undergoing constant adjustment in the theater of the mind.

    All of this can be summed up in a simple relationship: The greater the strains of mental activity, the more need there is to sleep and to dream, and in fact this is exactly what we find. Children, to whom the world is constantly affording new experiences and who are actively learning all the time, sleep and dream more than adults; intellectual workers dream more than manual laborers; people in new circumstances (e.g. moving or changing careers) experience an uptick in dream activity; and people under great duress, who have just endured the loss of a loved one or a divorce, or are otherwise in the depths of some spiritual crisis, even though they often suffer from sleep disturbances, are prone to have the most piercing and lurid dreams of all. Finally, people who are deliberately deprived of sleep in psychological experiments are known to undergo a pronounced mental deterioration which ultimately results in psychosis and death. Well-adjusted adults with settled lives and few existential concerns infrequently remember their dreams and can get by on the least amount of sleep.

    The relevance of these data to the present article I will leave to the reader to determine, but my guess is that the exact opposite of the article's contention is in fact the truth. Blacks today are generally less worried and stressed out than whites.

    And that only stands to reason.

    I agree with Another Fred but go a little further in wanting to add in the likelihood that many genes are involved in each of the important functions of sleep so that some people might be able to process their disorganised perceptual and argumentative data from the day much more quickly and efficiently than others thereby needing less sleep to make sense in the offoce next day. Cf. the genetically influenced differences in processing speed for math, for example. Other genes would mean that more or less time was needed for muscle repair or restoration of endocrine functions.

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  • @JayMan

    There was this recent story
     
    Indeed. Still that's only two more groups out of numerous across the world. I'd like to see more data.

    I would have liked to know whether they had considered the hypothesis that the hunter gatherers might have enjoyed several hours during which body and mind could get at least part of the benefits of proper sleep. One could make an approach to this anywhere by having some subjects spend say 5 hours sleeping and 4 hours meditating or engaged in rituals close to meditative relaxation.

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  • @Anatoly Karlin
    We only spend about 2 hours in REM sleep. Indeed, there are people who practice polyphasic sleep to minimize the amount of time they spend sleeping with no apparent ill effects. Surely this suggests that the great bulk of sleep is superfluous?

    I would be interested to know about “polyphasic sleep” and the studies which show that some people can sleep less asca result without harm. I only hear of the studies showing how many people are not getting enough sleep and the harm it causes.

    My theory is that the real intrinsic need for sleep is roughly normally distributed around an average of about 7.5 hours with sd roughly 50 minutes. But that might be complicated by the possibility that one person might be able to provide sleeping time for all neurological, hormonal and other physical repairs as well as consolidation of memories, calm anxieties and whatever else sleep is supposed to do for an adult in 5 hours a night’s sleep whereas another person might need 8 hours for health of heart, arteries and endocrine glands even though their mental functions were adequately served by 5 hours sleep. Those latter might be the senior execs who have heart attacks at 50 (used to be 10 years earlier in mybfather’s generation).

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  • Peter,

    The OKCupid database has data for various sleep-related variables. Since the sample is 70k world-wide, it would be possible to examine regional differences as well as racial. Sample size probably too small (few Africans use it) to examine state x race interactions except for the largest states.

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  • @e
    What kind of "inquiring mind" one expects from a scientist starts from a position of "it can't be biological differences"? Jesus.

    Yes, they lost me there. Of course the differential is genetic, Occam’s Razor….

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  • another apparently overlooked factor in the data presented is the age of folks, and especially whether they are retired and do not set the alarm.

    So far, my sleep needs have changed not a whit since childhood. If I do not get enough sleep, I feel tired, even with only an hour or so short of normal.Joe Webb

    Then for those attracted to Chinese 5 element theory and acupuncture, the theory claims that different organs get their charge as well as their rest at different hours of a 24 hour clock. On this stuff I am agnostic but I sleep better between the hours recommended by this theory…10 pm to 6 or 7 am, which of course is merely consistent with caveman life/nature.

    Joe Webb

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  • I live near Stanford U. I used to mess with my sleep cuz of work schedules and thus paid attention to Stanford Sleep Center info.

    Last time I checked, they recommended 8 to 9 hours sleep for long life and they liked naps.

    I am retired and allow myself as much sleep as my body wants. Stanford Sleep Center took the position that most people do not get enough sleep and rest. Most folks perceive me as 15 and sometimes more years younger than I am.

    Never smoked, don’t drink, moderate exercise and allow myself as much sleep as my body wants. I recommend it. Nothing like a fully rested body and mind.

    Which gets me to work and stress. I think people get worn out and aged by overwork and stress.
    Which also contributes to alcohol etc. use. I have known a couple folks who would not let themselves get more than 5 hours of sleep. They always looked bad and dunno about their longevity.

    Joe Webb

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    • Replies: @Jeff77450
    Well said.
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  • why is it bad to notice bad Jewish behavior?

    It’s bad when people obsess about Jewish behavior to the point that they don’t notice non-Jews doing exactly the same thing. If you think Mark Zuckerberg is bad because he’s Jewish, you probably won’t notice the harm being done by non-Jewish oligarchs, like Rupert Murdoch and the Koch Brothers.

    I don’t get how the siesta tradition would affect Africans more deeply than it affects Hispanics, Asians and people from the Mediterranean.

    Who said it did? Most of the sleep research has been done on Euro Americans and African Americans.

    According to this Americans of above-average intelligence get somewhat less sleep (and stay up later) than less-intelligent Americans:

    I find it a bit surprising that people stay out longer on Friday night (and the wee hours of Saturday morning) if they’re more intelligent.

    Quoting Malcolm Pollack, “Maybe black people and white people are just, well, different in some way that manifests itself, directly or indirectly, in different sleep patterns?”

    I agree. “Different” doesn’t necessarily mean “pathologically different.”

    Another prediction: African sleep length will vary less during the seasons relative to northerners, who tend to sleep longer during the winter and shorter during the summer.

    I’ve seen only one study that could test your prediction. It’s the one by Friborg et al. (2012) on Ghanaian and Norwegian subjects:

    Ghanaians

    weekdays – January 6.82 h August 6.90 h
    weekends – January 6.91 h August 7.03 h

    Norwegians

    weekdays – January 7.27 h August 7.14 h
    weekends – January 7.85 h. August 7.92 h

    Sleep doesn’t seem to vary seasonally among Norwegians, at least not to an appreciable extent.

    Economic factors, stress, poverty? Living conditions?

    Those factors were controlled.

    This study investigated the relationship between ethnicity, discrimination and multiple dimensions of sleep. Substantial ethnic differences were detected in PSG-assessed sleep architecture. Consistent with previous investigations, after controlling for differences in age, BMI, SES and smoking status, African American participants took longer to fall asleep, slept more time in Stage 2 and less time in SWS than Caucasian participants.

    https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Lianne_Tomfohr/publication/51649994_Racial_differences_in_sleep_architecture_The_role_of_ethnic_discrimination/links/00b495314ab6f01fae000000.pdf

    I’d like to the see the data sorted by region of the country. America is a big diverse country ethnically and culturally. A blacks in New England exhibiting a greater or lesser sleep gap compared to blacks in the Deep South? How about white sleep patterns between Appalachia and the Midlands?

    That study has been done. Americans sleep the least in the South, with Ohio and West Virginia being the only non-Southern states with short sleep duration:

    Eighty-four counties were hotspots, with high levels of insufficient sleep (P < .01), and 45 were coldspots, with low insufficient sleep (P < .01). Hotspots were found in Alabama (1 county), Arkansas (1), Georgia (1), Illinois (1), Kentucky (25), Louisiana (1), Missouri (4), Ohio (7), Tennessee (12), Texas (9), Virginia (6), and West Virginia (16). Coldspots were found in Alabama (1 county), Georgia (2), Illinois (6), Iowa (6), Michigan (2), Minnesota (1), North Carolina (1), Texas (7), Virginia (12), and Wisconsin (6). Several contiguous hotspots and coldspots were evident. Notably, the 17 counties with the highest levels of insufficient sleep were found in a contiguous set at the intersection of Kentucky, Tennessee, Virginia, and West Virginia (all P < .0002).

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352721815001096

    The somewhat comical part of these studies is the assumption that all whites are the same when anyone who has traveled a bit knows this to be false. Similarly, the greatest genetic diversity among humans is in sub-Saharan Africa, thus meaning all blacks are not the same either.

    I agree. I would predict that southern Europeans likewise have shorter nighttime sleep duration.

    I don’t agree with your second point (the greatest genetic diversity among humans is in sub-Saharan Africa). Most of that diversity is non-functional. The sub-Saharan African gene pool has more junk variability because it has stayed put in the same continent. A lot of that variability was lost due to founder effects when modern humans spread to Eurasia.

    The greater the strains of mental activity, the more need there is to sleep and to dream,

    How would you reply to the previous commenter who noted that smarter people sleep less?

    Frost, more interesting, i.e., more work for you, would be a piece on the levels of mental illness in different ethnic groups.

    Mental illness is a product of genetics and environment. In the past, the suicide rate was low among the Inuit. Now, it is very high. The Inuit haven’t changed genetically. It’s the environment that’s changed. There was a government policy of moving the Inuit off the land and into settlements … where most of them have nothing at all to do. They feel useless and many kill themselves.

    Same with Euro Americans, especially working-class whites. Their jobs have been outsourced to China and insourced to illegal immigrants. They too have nothing to do. They feel useless and many kill themselves.

    I believe the Inuit, like Euro Americans, cannot handle inactivity. It seems to trigger suicidal ideation, and it’s difficult to shut down that process.

    Personally as an owner of a fairly well-endowed brain, I am heavily dependent on eating enough to keep said brain happy, but also in need of a lot of sleep, at least 8 hours and usually 9.

    Again, how do you reply to that previous commenter who noted that smarter people sleep less? (It’s not a big difference, and I suspect that many smart people have very active lives that encroach on sleep time).

    I’d expect self-reported sleep duration to be highly noisy. Heck, I doubt I could reliably tell you how long I sleep at night. As such, I wouldn’t rule out systematic biased error in sleep duration by race, leading to these apparent differences.

    No, we see these race differences in sleep duration even when the participants are monitored by sensors of various kinds:

    Sleep data acquisition was performed using the Embla A10 polysomnography system (Embla Systems Inc., Broomfield, CO USA). We assessed: Electroencephalography (C4/C3), electrooculography, chin electromyography, leg electromyography, airflow with an oronasal thermal sensor, airflow with an air pressure transducer, snore events with a piezo snore sensor, respiratory effort with piezo thoracic and abdominal belts, oxygen saturation with a pulse oximetersensor, and body position with a position indicator.

    https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Lianne_Tomfohr/publication/51649994_Racial_differences_in_sleep_architecture_The_role_of_ethnic_discrimination/links/00b495314ab6f01fae000000.pdf

    Just by eyeballing the SDs, I would say there’s not a lot of noise in the data.

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  • Actually it was shown that black sleep less because blacks are outside robbing stores and whites while they sleep.

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  • @FirkinRidiculous
    There was this recent story: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-34544394

    There was this recent story

    Indeed. Still that’s only two more groups out of numerous across the world. I’d like to see more data.

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    I would have liked to know whether they had considered the hypothesis that the hunter gatherers might have enjoyed several hours during which body and mind could get at least part of the benefits of proper sleep. One could make an approach to this anywhere by having some subjects spend say 5 hours sleeping and 4 hours meditating or engaged in rituals close to meditative relaxation.
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  • less sleep makes you lasy and dumb is all i got from this.

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  • @jon

    Assuming sleep is essentially just a way of keeping energy expenditures down when they’re not needed
     
    It's much more than that, though. They have done studies where they allow a subject to get a normal total amount of sleep, but don't allow them to go into REM sleep. It really messes a person up.

    This is also why 'drunk sleeping' is never really restful, even though you might sleep longer than normal after a night out. The alcohol messes with your REM sleep.

    We only spend about 2 hours in REM sleep. Indeed, there are people who practice polyphasic sleep to minimize the amount of time they spend sleeping with no apparent ill effects. Surely this suggests that the great bulk of sleep is superfluous?

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    I would be interested to know about "polyphasic sleep" and the studies which show that some people can sleep less asca result without harm. I only hear of the studies showing how many people are not getting enough sleep and the harm it causes.

    My theory is that the real intrinsic need for sleep is roughly normally distributed around an average of about 7.5 hours with sd roughly 50 minutes. But that might be complicated by the possibility that one person might be able to provide sleeping time for all neurological, hormonal and other physical repairs as well as consolidation of memories, calm anxieties and whatever else sleep is supposed to do for an adult in 5 hours a night's sleep whereas another person might need 8 hours for health of heart, arteries and endocrine glands even though their mental functions were adequately served by 5 hours sleep. Those latter might be the senior execs who have heart attacks at 50 (used to be 10 years earlier in mybfather's generation).
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Could be the reason they live such slothful lives rife with violence. Hard to figure out why the African behaves the he does. I personally think it has to do with a genetic predisposition to lash out in hatred. The negroid also is extremely sexually active, if I m not mistaken, black females on average have more testosterone then Asain males. Black women are very sexually aggressive. It is not uncommon in black inner city areas for black girls to be having sex at age 12. I think is do to high infant mortality deaths in Africa, they evolved to mass produce children because so many would die at a young age.
    Prior to colonization the African lived as basically an animal without any medicine or technology. The African has only been civilized for a few centuries. Tens of thousands of years they lived as virtual land roaming savage animals. Natural selection selected the most violent psycopathic of the race that was successful in pro creating with as many negresess they could furthering their primitive behavior. Their is so pacifying or domesticating nature’s creation of the negro. It is futile to even attempt it. Anywhere the negro rests his head is an area that has experienced chaos and violence. From Africa to Europe, the negroid leaves a wake destruction in its path.

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    • Disagree: Stephen R. Diamond
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Clearly white plantation owners and their white employees failed lamentably in attempting the needed rate of miscegenation.
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  • @Wally
    antisemite:

    any thought of person that a Jew doesn't like

    Hater of Jews: You

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  • @JayMan
    I'd like to see data on average sleep duration across the world.

    I'd expect self-reported sleep duration to be highly noisy. Heck, I doubt I could reliably tell you how long I sleep at night. As such, I wouldn't rule out systematic biased error in sleep duration by race, leading to these apparent differences.
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    • Replies: @JayMan

    There was this recent story
     
    Indeed. Still that's only two more groups out of numerous across the world. I'd like to see more data.
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  • I’d like to see data on average sleep duration across the world.

    I’d expect self-reported sleep duration to be highly noisy. Heck, I doubt I could reliably tell you how long I sleep at night. As such, I wouldn’t rule out systematic biased error in sleep duration by race, leading to these apparent differences.

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    • Replies: @FirkinRidiculous
    There was this recent story: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-34544394
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  • @joe webb
    I hear that the brain requires a relatively large amount of energy compared to other organs.

    An example of that is the scientific racialist position that a large and intelligent brain becomes a relative deficit when the owner of such a brain is surrounded by dummies and consequently a society that does not have much to think about. The deficit was, as I recall, merely that of squandering of precious calories on a brain that gobbles up calories even when just idling in traffic like a muscle-car guzzling gas in gridlock. In a poor society, calories are hard come by and the smartie unlucky enough to be born into such a society is at risk, in the first place, of not having enough to eat, and this can lead to other deficits.

    Personally as an owner of a fairly well-endowed brain, I am heavily dependent on eating enough to keep said brain happy, but also in need of a lot of sleep, at least 8 hours and usually 9.

    As for dream activity, those dreams that I recall are pedestrian and of no apparent relatedness to my daily routine. The main exception being women who have made some kind of emotional impact. Politics, etc. which I think about far more than women, never appears in my dreams.

    Perhaps naively, I see sleep as merely rest and nothing more. Another observed phenomenon personally is listening to music when I am tired. I listen to mostly classical with a bit of straight ahead jazz now and then. I don't want to listen to music when I am tired. My brain is tired and does not want to process it. It is that simple. It wants to rest and go to sleep.

    What is also very interesting is how a short nap can revive me. This can I suppose be seen as some kind of "Unconscious" settling of accounts, or as merely profound rest. I put my money on the latter.

    Joe Webb

    As for dream activity, those dreams that I recall are pedestrian and of no apparent relatedness to my daily routine.

    That’s interesting, my experience has been the exact opposite. My dreams always connect to my daily life. They usually follow the typical bizarro world plot line of a dream, but each part of the dream can be traced back to something in my life (usually something that is connected with high emotions, good or bad).

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  • @Intelligent Dasein
    Sleep is not really about preserving energy or recharging the body's physical batteries, although these can be secondary effects of sleep. The primary and quintessential purpose of sleep, however, is maintaining proper mental functioning.

    We sleep so that we may dream. We dream so that we may integrate new sensory perceptions into our existing patterns of behavior and respond accordingly to an ever-changing environment. This is a necessity of animal existence.

    Plant life is defined by the nutritive faculty only and is the simplest form of life. Plants neither sense, move, nor reason; they just take in nourishment and grow, all of it unconsciously. A plant is not entirely separate from the landscape and setting in which it appears; rather it forms a part of that setting. Using a bit of poetic license, one might say that the plant is an extension from the soil in which it grows. It is the soil in which it grows--the life bearing capacity of the soil at highest potential.

    Animal life is defined by the both the nutritive and sensory faculties. Animals also take in nourishment and grow (indeed, the animal "body," considered in abstraction, is just a plant); but in addition to the body there is also the animal "self." Unlike the plant, every free-living animal is an individual, a microcosm within a macrocosm, and stands separate and apart from its environment. The ability to sense means that there is a distinction between that who senses and everything else in creation. The animal is not unconscious like the plant; it has to care for itself. It senses, and it must respond to that which it perceives. Such responses we call "motion," using the word in an expansive sense. Thus sensory perception and motion go together.

    In the higher animals, the interface between the microcosm and the macrocosm increasingly becomes embodied in the functioning of the nervous system, whose job it is to integrate the impressions left on the sense organs and to modulate the organism's responses to them. The nervous system's ability to perform this function, however, is not unlimited. When the organism can no longer receive sense impressions or generate responses, tiredness is experienced and sleep ensues. The body becomes a plant again; and the mind, temporarily cut off from pressing demands, is free to digest the material of the day.

    For human beings there is an additional element. Human life is defined by the nutritive, sensory, and rational faculties--man is the rational animal. Therefore, in addition to the mere sense impressions of the animals there is added to our experience the whole new dimension of words and concepts. This is what gives human dreams their particularly surreal quality, as the relationship between material sense impressions and immaterial concepts is undergoing constant adjustment in the theater of the mind.

    All of this can be summed up in a simple relationship: The greater the strains of mental activity, the more need there is to sleep and to dream, and in fact this is exactly what we find. Children, to whom the world is constantly affording new experiences and who are actively learning all the time, sleep and dream more than adults; intellectual workers dream more than manual laborers; people in new circumstances (e.g. moving or changing careers) experience an uptick in dream activity; and people under great duress, who have just endured the loss of a loved one or a divorce, or are otherwise in the depths of some spiritual crisis, even though they often suffer from sleep disturbances, are prone to have the most piercing and lurid dreams of all. Finally, people who are deliberately deprived of sleep in psychological experiments are known to undergo a pronounced mental deterioration which ultimately results in psychosis and death. Well-adjusted adults with settled lives and few existential concerns infrequently remember their dreams and can get by on the least amount of sleep.

    The relevance of these data to the present article I will leave to the reader to determine, but my guess is that the exact opposite of the article's contention is in fact the truth. Blacks today are generally less worried and stressed out than whites.

    And that only stands to reason.

    An important function of sleep that you omit is the disposal of toxic residues and waste derived from a days activities. As you note the brain consumes a large portion of the body’s energy. That consumption generates waste that must be removed. Most of the waste removal occurs during sleep.

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  • @Anatoly Karlin
    Assuming sleep is essentially just a way of keeping energy expenditures down when they're not needed (humans can't hunt or gather at night) it stands to reason that northern peoples would sleep more on average.

    Another prediction: African sleep length will vary less during the seasons relative to northerners, who tend to sleep longer during the winter and shorter during the summer.

    Assuming sleep is essentially just a way of keeping energy expenditures down when they’re not needed

    It’s much more than that, though. They have done studies where they allow a subject to get a normal total amount of sleep, but don’t allow them to go into REM sleep. It really messes a person up.

    This is also why ‘drunk sleeping’ is never really restful, even though you might sleep longer than normal after a night out. The alcohol messes with your REM sleep.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    We only spend about 2 hours in REM sleep. Indeed, there are people who practice polyphasic sleep to minimize the amount of time they spend sleeping with no apparent ill effects. Surely this suggests that the great bulk of sleep is superfluous?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Jeff77450
    Very Bright (IQ > 125)
    Weekday: 12:29 am -7:52 am
    Weekend: 1:44 am -11:07 am

    I need to start staying up later then.

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  • I hear that the brain requires a relatively large amount of energy compared to other organs.

    An example of that is the scientific racialist position that a large and intelligent brain becomes a relative deficit when the owner of such a brain is surrounded by dummies and consequently a society that does not have much to think about. The deficit was, as I recall, merely that of squandering of precious calories on a brain that gobbles up calories even when just idling in traffic like a muscle-car guzzling gas in gridlock. In a poor society, calories are hard come by and the smartie unlucky enough to be born into such a society is at risk, in the first place, of not having enough to eat, and this can lead to other deficits.

    Personally as an owner of a fairly well-endowed brain, I am heavily dependent on eating enough to keep said brain happy, but also in need of a lot of sleep, at least 8 hours and usually 9.

    As for dream activity, those dreams that I recall are pedestrian and of no apparent relatedness to my daily routine. The main exception being women who have made some kind of emotional impact. Politics, etc. which I think about far more than women, never appears in my dreams.

    Perhaps naively, I see sleep as merely rest and nothing more. Another observed phenomenon personally is listening to music when I am tired. I listen to mostly classical with a bit of straight ahead jazz now and then. I don’t want to listen to music when I am tired. My brain is tired and does not want to process it. It is that simple. It wants to rest and go to sleep.

    What is also very interesting is how a short nap can revive me. This can I suppose be seen as some kind of “Unconscious” settling of accounts, or as merely profound rest. I put my money on the latter.

    Joe Webb

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    • Replies: @jon

    As for dream activity, those dreams that I recall are pedestrian and of no apparent relatedness to my daily routine.
     
    That's interesting, my experience has been the exact opposite. My dreams always connect to my daily life. They usually follow the typical bizarro world plot line of a dream, but each part of the dream can be traced back to something in my life (usually something that is connected with high emotions, good or bad).
    , @Wizard of Oz
    You make an interesting point about music. I agree that listening to classical music is not good for going to sleep. Indeed the best soporific I have found is the news, repeated as it usually is without new and exciting news. An exception I found was the Canadian news which was so irritatingly boring that it had the opposite to the desired effect. The BBC followed by Deutsche Welle was fine....
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  • Frost, more interesting, i.e., more work for you, would be a piece on the levels of mental illness in different ethnic groups. Does it fit the usual Rushton pattern?

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  • Sleep is not really about preserving energy or recharging the body’s physical batteries, although these can be secondary effects of sleep. The primary and quintessential purpose of sleep, however, is maintaining proper mental functioning.

    We sleep so that we may dream. We dream so that we may integrate new sensory perceptions into our existing patterns of behavior and respond accordingly to an ever-changing environment. This is a necessity of animal existence.

    Plant life is defined by the nutritive faculty only and is the simplest form of life. Plants neither sense, move, nor reason; they just take in nourishment and grow, all of it unconsciously. A plant is not entirely separate from the landscape and setting in which it appears; rather it forms a part of that setting. Using a bit of poetic license, one might say that the plant is an extension from the soil in which it grows. It is the soil in which it grows–the life bearing capacity of the soil at highest potential.

    Animal life is defined by the both the nutritive and sensory faculties. Animals also take in nourishment and grow (indeed, the animal “body,” considered in abstraction, is just a plant); but in addition to the body there is also the animal “self.” Unlike the plant, every free-living animal is an individual, a microcosm within a macrocosm, and stands separate and apart from its environment. The ability to sense means that there is a distinction between that who senses and everything else in creation. The animal is not unconscious like the plant; it has to care for itself. It senses, and it must respond to that which it perceives. Such responses we call “motion,” using the word in an expansive sense. Thus sensory perception and motion go together.

    In the higher animals, the interface between the microcosm and the macrocosm increasingly becomes embodied in the functioning of the nervous system, whose job it is to integrate the impressions left on the sense organs and to modulate the organism’s responses to them. The nervous system’s ability to perform this function, however, is not unlimited. When the organism can no longer receive sense impressions or generate responses, tiredness is experienced and sleep ensues. The body becomes a plant again; and the mind, temporarily cut off from pressing demands, is free to digest the material of the day.

    For human beings there is an additional element. Human life is defined by the nutritive, sensory, and rational faculties–man is the rational animal. Therefore, in addition to the mere sense impressions of the animals there is added to our experience the whole new dimension of words and concepts. This is what gives human dreams their particularly surreal quality, as the relationship between material sense impressions and immaterial concepts is undergoing constant adjustment in the theater of the mind.

    All of this can be summed up in a simple relationship: The greater the strains of mental activity, the more need there is to sleep and to dream, and in fact this is exactly what we find. Children, to whom the world is constantly affording new experiences and who are actively learning all the time, sleep and dream more than adults; intellectual workers dream more than manual laborers; people in new circumstances (e.g. moving or changing careers) experience an uptick in dream activity; and people under great duress, who have just endured the loss of a loved one or a divorce, or are otherwise in the depths of some spiritual crisis, even though they often suffer from sleep disturbances, are prone to have the most piercing and lurid dreams of all. Finally, people who are deliberately deprived of sleep in psychological experiments are known to undergo a pronounced mental deterioration which ultimately results in psychosis and death. Well-adjusted adults with settled lives and few existential concerns infrequently remember their dreams and can get by on the least amount of sleep.

    The relevance of these data to the present article I will leave to the reader to determine, but my guess is that the exact opposite of the article’s contention is in fact the truth. Blacks today are generally less worried and stressed out than whites.

    And that only stands to reason.

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    • Replies: @another fred
    An important function of sleep that you omit is the disposal of toxic residues and waste derived from a days activities. As you note the brain consumes a large portion of the body's energy. That consumption generates waste that must be removed. Most of the waste removal occurs during sleep.
    , @Wizard of Oz
    I agree with Another Fred but go a little further in wanting to add in the likelihood that many genes are involved in each of the important functions of sleep so that some people might be able to process their disorganised perceptual and argumentative data from the day much more quickly and efficiently than others thereby needing less sleep to make sense in the offoce next day. Cf. the genetically influenced differences in processing speed for math, for example. Other genes would mean that more or less time was needed for muscle repair or restoration of endocrine functions.
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  • I’d like to the see the data sorted by region of the country. America is a big diverse country ethnically and culturally. A blacks in New England exhibiting a greater or lesser sleep gap compared to blacks in the Deep South? How about white sleep patterns between Appalachia and the Midlands?

    The somewhat comical part of these studies is the assumption that all whites are the same when anyone who has traveled a bit knows this to be false. Similarly, the greatest genetic diversity among humans is in sub-Saharan Africa, thus meaning all blacks are not the same either.

    Or, we can fall back on magic and pretend the Sandman is a Racist.

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  • Wally [AKA "BobbyBeGood"] says: • Website
    @Priss Factor
    Whatever the case, suppose the finding was that whites sleep less than blacks.

    Then, the PC police would be saying whites succeed more because they are awake more and sleep less.
    PC police would say blacks sleep more because 'racism' stresses them out, requiring them to sleep more and do less.

    It's how PC works. No matter what the data, blacks are victims and whits are villains.

    Same with whites and Jews. If Jews do bad, the narrative isn't "Jews did bad" but "whites might have 'antisemitic' thoughts about Jews who did bad", therefore, whites are put on the moral defensive even though it is Jews who did bad. Btw, if lots of Jews do bad and if noticing this fact is 'antisemitic', isn't 'antisemitism' a good thing for honestly noticing bad Jewish behavior?

    When Wasps had the power and Jews noticed a lot of bad stuff done by Wasps, that was seen as good. So, why is it bad to notice bad Jewish behavior?

    antisemite:

    any thought of person that a Jew doesn’t like

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    • Replies: @Andrew E. Mathis
    Hater of Jews: You
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  • No one’s mentioned yet an important data point, the Yale email atrocity:

    This email and the subsequent reaction to it have interrupted their lives. I have friends who are not going to class, who are not doing their homework, WHO ARE LOSING SLEEP [emphasis added], who are skipping meals, and who are having breakdowns. I feel drained.

    This article by a member of the Black Student Alliance is clear proof that racism is the cause not only of sleep disparities, but of disparities in educational achievement, mental health, and nutrition as well.

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  • Economic factors, stress, poverty? Living conditions? Smaller/larger households, type of job? TV use, eating patterns. Family conditions, drug and alcohol use? There are so many potential confounding factors.

    Any time we are talking about something as a characteristic of race there needs to be race wide research. Do whites in Europe or Africa sleep more than blacks. Do blacks in Africa really sleep less than whites? We need more research and hopefully some black researchers will get involved.

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  • I dated a great girl from Sierra Leone for a year and learned that sun is for relaxing and shivering is for activating. I learned that because I knew the opposite all my life, without knowing I knew that. I have often wanted to simplify my experience reductively and say that blacks are basically all bipolar, because what’s with the range of their emotions, I mean it’s patently abnormal you know? Big heat makes them relax and trigger happy too?… well because they’d rather relax, except for that blazed nigga tryin to debo my spot. Still killing in cold Chicago? Well, they’re kinda cold blooded, in an activating sense, you know?. With these people there’s an exception to every rule and you have to start by reversing the rules. The most consistent, scientific environment I suppose is of course prison. And yep, they were always the majority early risers, every morn, up playin spades. And rapping all afternoon till rec.

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  • Assuming sleep is essentially just a way of keeping energy expenditures down when they’re not needed (humans can’t hunt or gather at night) it stands to reason that northern peoples would sleep more on average.

    Another prediction: African sleep length will vary less during the seasons relative to northerners, who tend to sleep longer during the winter and shorter during the summer.

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    • Replies: @jon

    Assuming sleep is essentially just a way of keeping energy expenditures down when they’re not needed
     
    It's much more than that, though. They have done studies where they allow a subject to get a normal total amount of sleep, but don't allow them to go into REM sleep. It really messes a person up.

    This is also why 'drunk sleeping' is never really restful, even though you might sleep longer than normal after a night out. The alcohol messes with your REM sleep.

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  • It would be interesting to extract some figures on the average length of sleep allowed to male and to female slaves in the US, and the siestas allowed to them; as well, of course, as any comparable figures for the rest of the Americas.

    Especially in the high mortality sugar plantations of the West Indies there could, I hypothesise, have been selection for those able to survive on little sleep without excessively damaging consequences for their health.

    Anything known? There doesn’t appear to be enough evidence about Africans to rule out the possibility of the way slaves were treated being a factor.

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  • When blacks are actually asked about sleep and sleep quality, they report fewer problems than whites or Hispanics do.

    In 2010 and 2014, the GSS asked respondents how often they’ve had trouble getting to sleep or staying asleep in the past year. The percentages among whites (n = 1,802), blacks (n = 354), and Hispanics (n = 127) who answered either “often” or “sometimes”:

    Whites — 57.5%
    Hispanics — 55.2%
    Blacks — 48.4%

    Quoting Malcolm Pollack, “Maybe black people and white people are just, well, different in some way that manifests itself, directly or indirectly, in different sleep patterns?”

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  • @Jeff77450
    According to this Americans of above-average intelligence get somewhat less sleep (and stay up later) than less-intelligent Americans: http://elitedaily.com/life/culture/night-owls-creative-intelligent/686025/

    Bedtimes and wake-up times for Americans in their 20s by IQ.

    Very Dull (IQ < 75)
    Weekday: 11:41 pm -7:20 am
    Weekend: 12:35 am -10:09 pm

    Normal (90 < IQ 125)
    Weekday: 12:29 am -7:52 am
    Weekend: 1:44 am -11:07 am

    Very Bright (IQ > 125)
    Weekday: 12:29 am -7:52 am
    Weekend: 1:44 am -11:07 am

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    • Replies: @jon
    I need to start staying up later then.
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  • According to this Americans of above-average intelligence get somewhat less sleep (and stay up later) than less-intelligent Americans: http://elitedaily.com/life/culture/night-owls-creative-intelligent/686025/

    Bedtimes and wake-up times for Americans in their 20s by IQ.

    Very Dull (IQ < 75)
    Weekday: 11:41 pm -7:20 am
    Weekend: 12:35 am -10:09 pm

    Normal (90 < IQ 125)
    Weekday: 12:29 am -7:52 am
    Weekend: 1:44 am -11:07 am

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    • Replies: @Jeff77450
    Very Bright (IQ > 125)
    Weekday: 12:29 am -7:52 am
    Weekend: 1:44 am -11:07 am
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  • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night#Duration_and_geography

    http://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2015/10/the-many-myths-of-paleo-sleeping/410707/

    It seems to me being that being asleep is the safest thing to do when it is dark and there are predators and other dangers. You are not going to be able to find food blundering around in the dark, and might easily become food. Long nights would select for sleeping longer. The above linked study found hunter gatherers were woken before dawn by the cold and moved about most in the morning. They avoided the midday sun and that time for taking a nap seems logical.

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  • @Myra Esoteric
    I don't get how the siesta tradition would affect Africans more deeply than it affects Hispanics, Asians and people from the Mediterranean. Siesta was a thing in China up until the '90s.

    Where you got the info from? “Siesta” is still a BIG rutine thing in China now.

    Med Siesta is for the same purpose as that in China, but for quite a different ends. Both aim at preserving energy level, Med one for fiestas in the mid nights, China one for the better efficiency during the afternoons.

    It would be interesting though to see the correlation between avg brain size and the lenghth of sleep hours.

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  • What kind of “inquiring mind” one expects from a scientist starts from a position of “it can’t be biological differences”? Jesus.

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    • Replies: @pyrrhus
    Yes, they lost me there. Of course the differential is genetic, Occam's Razor....
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  • I don’t get how the siesta tradition would affect Africans more deeply than it affects Hispanics, Asians and people from the Mediterranean. Siesta was a thing in China up until the ’90s.

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    • Replies: @PandaAtWar
    Where you got the info from? "Siesta" is still a BIG rutine thing in China now.

    Med Siesta is for the same purpose as that in China, but for quite a different ends. Both aim at preserving energy level, Med one for fiestas in the mid nights, China one for the better efficiency during the afternoons.

    It would be interesting though to see the correlation between avg brain size and the lenghth of sleep hours.

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  • Priss Factor [AKA "The Priss Factory"] says: • Website

    Whatever the case, suppose the finding was that whites sleep less than blacks.

    Then, the PC police would be saying whites succeed more because they are awake more and sleep less.
    PC police would say blacks sleep more because ‘racism’ stresses them out, requiring them to sleep more and do less.

    It’s how PC works. No matter what the data, blacks are victims and whits are villains.

    Same with whites and Jews. If Jews do bad, the narrative isn’t “Jews did bad” but “whites might have ‘antisemitic’ thoughts about Jews who did bad”, therefore, whites are put on the moral defensive even though it is Jews who did bad. Btw, if lots of Jews do bad and if noticing this fact is ‘antisemitic’, isn’t ‘antisemitism’ a good thing for honestly noticing bad Jewish behavior?

    When Wasps had the power and Jews noticed a lot of bad stuff done by Wasps, that was seen as good. So, why is it bad to notice bad Jewish behavior?

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    • Replies: @Wally
    antisemite:

    any thought of person that a Jew doesn't like
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  • In my last column, I reviewed the findings of Butovskaya et al. (2015) on testosterone and polygyny in two East African peoples: - Testosterone levels were higher in the polygynous Datoga than in the monogamous Hadza. This difference is innate. - Datoga men were more aggressive than Hadza men on all measures used (physical aggression,...
  • @Santoculto
    Psychosis spectrum have as one of their bio-markers exactly as higher mood fluctuation. I'm mild bipolar, i think, and i no have filter to feel the world around me, emotions are always driving my attention. But i also born with capacity to control or at least to analyse myself, while for seems most people with some real severe mental unbalance diagnosis, even they have ''cognitive control'', the effort tend to be too expensive to be done alone without medical intervention. My mood fluctuation is more intense inside than out of me.

    Wisdom is a integrated approach of instinctive, emotional and rational thinking styles.

    People tend to mistake ''biological development'' with ''learning via environmental interactions''. Learning is no the cause but the effect of the first, biological development/brain maturation and functionality. Of course, internalize new routines is a impressive event made by neotenized creatures, but depend on natural dispositions or instinctive/vital/essential inborn trends.
    It's a kind of biological/mental destiny, and not unique environmental destiny. Our personal trajectories are unique and can be very unstable, but our biological/mental trajectories are not strongly unstable. Is little complicated claim that ''this child internalize this routine/learning in every dimension'', because the unique environment factors or experiences. But i think i can claim that she will have greater/average/lower disposition for greater altruistic reactions.

    ''Testosterone seems to be about moods, not ideas to be precise.''

    It seems wrong, specially for creative ideas, intuition, moods are directly conected with ideations (idea productions). Remember, to think is not the same that to have ideas, we are thinking all the time, but have ideas is more particular in the space and time.

    To learn convergent or accumulated knowledge, mood fluctuation, seems, tend to be bad but to produce new knowledge, is fundamental.

    And remember, human beings will tend to react with all their bio-cognitive variables, testosterone or other hormones included. Your thinking seems impossible to be right, or at least wasn't tested to be claimed, sorry, but thanks!

    Schizophrenia seems to be like a inner adhd, difused attention and inner-hyperactivity, a kind of uncontrollable imagination.

    Well done response. I don’t disagree with a bit. I was generalizing to a fault. But you should definitely order Strictly Bipolar if you know the beast. Yes the author is a Freudian, but the thing about Freudians is not that they are universally wrong but that, say, the oedipus complex was brushed over too much that is too particular to be colored by a broad swath. I’m manic depressive and have seen the same shrink for fourteen years, exactly half my life, and by now we just talk shop and hardly ever bring up me personally. He is not a Freudian but he has presided over the textbook Freudian case. A kid remote from puberty was compulsively masturbating such that his parents couldn’t help but notice. Doc suspected the parents love life had stalled so he told them how to fix that. Next session everyone is happy and the kids not masturbating anymore. I.e., the kids unconscious was sensing the jealousy of the father’s unconscious, which was perturbed about not getting laid, and he was masturbating to relieve the repressed idea that he was going to be castrated by his sexually repressed father. Once the parents love life was good and happy, the kid stopped masturbating, bringing healthy balance back to home life. Point being, in discrete situations, Freud is apt to be useful, and Darian Leader’s Strictly Bipolar has made my hyper altruism (when it comes out) at least happily self-aware.

    About emotions and ideas yes you are right I think. Except where ideas come from when they come like sparks, as they do especially midst mania, is ultimately a great numinous mystery that finally touches just about every problem in philosophy, from free will and god to the nature of knowledge and virtue. On a thread around here some time back I sort of riffed on just that, and concluded that spark-like ideas are what’s his name’s random atomic swerves, while the process of thinking is a bio-chemical equation unfolding. Ideas pop and thinking prods along. I still think that’s probably basically true, and rather profound yes indeed, and moreover demonstrable for each individual who considers the strange way a word they can’t remember pops into their heads when they stop searching for it’s name.

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  • Plural Wives is widely approved of in both the Old and New Testaments, and only the insistence of the Emperor of Rome when he made the Christian Church the official religion of the Empire pushed the Church into caving in on this issue, and adopt the Roman law of one wife as Christian law. For more info Google “FounderChurch Portal”

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    You are wrong there. Plural wives are not approved in the New testament. Can you quote from the New testament where this alleged approval is?
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  • The preceding statement on the number of wives per man (“Polygamy was usually Bigamy, with the average number of wives per man … at about 1.2-2″) comes rather from data in Boserup that can be found in the source below

    Fine. It’s actually the number of wives per married man. (In the past, men usually remained celibate during the first ten years past puberty).

    They’ve been removed from society, but I wouldn’t think they’ve been removed from the marriage market for long, unless there is a substantial sentence.

    Actually, it doesn’t matter how long they are sent to prison. At any one point in time, large numbers of young black men are in prison and thus unavailable for marriage. A black woman could wait until a group of single men gets released. By that time, however, another group of single men who were formerly available will now be in prison.

    Judging by the percentage of one parent families among blacks who aren’t in prison, I also wouldn’t think that the incarcerated black men are all that interested in marriage.

    Most of them probably aren’t interested in traditional Christian marriage, i.e., lifelong monogamy with high paternal investment. But that’s the case for many black men regardless of whether they’re in prison (although the Senegalese data suggest that a certain proportion are naturally predisposed toward monogamy).

    Have black women been physically/genetically shaped by polygyny?

    To date, there has been less research on that point. The Senegalese data indicate the existence of a behavioral polymorphism. If some black men are naturally predisposed toward monogamy, the same may be true for some black women. There seem to be competing behavioral packages within Africa itself.

    The pressure of sexual selection has been much weaker on black women.

    I wonder if in polygyny such cultural outcome gene variants are less common.

    I don’t think polygyny vs. monogamy is a factor. We shouldn’t look for a unified theory of HBD. Natural selection is multidimensional.

    In the case of Europe vs. East Asia, there seem to have been different behavioral/psychological solutions to the same evolutionary problem, i.e., construction of stable, advanced societies. Europeans, especially Western Europeans, have resolved this problem via a pathway of weaker kinship, which in turn led to greater individualism, greater capacity for guilt proneness and affective empathy, and a greater tendency to frame violation of social rules in terms of moral universalism and moral absolutism.

    East Asians have resolved this problem via another pathway: a lesser sense of self. In general, there is a stronger tendency toward holistic attention, emphasis on social versus personal happiness, and suspension of self-interest. Conversely, there is a weaker tendency toward self-expression, self-esteem, and self-efficacy.

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  • Oxytocin is quite interesting for clanishness

    http://www.sfu.ca/biology/faculty/crespi/pdfs/178-Crespi2015.pdf Oxytocin and socially-mediated aggression A third, less-explored dimension for effects of oxytocin involves increases in social aggression, whereby this europeptide reduces thresholds for defence of one’s family, social relationships, or larger social group

    The effect of diferent cultures produced by a common gene

    http://www.unz.com/pfrost/a-genetic-marker-for-empathy/

    Emotional suppression was most clearly observable among Koreans with the OXTR GG genotype, those characterized as more socioemotionally sensitive, compared to those with AA genotype. Among Americans, the pattern was reversed, such that those with the GG genotype engaged in less emotional suppression, compared to those with the AA genotype. (Kim et al., 2011)

    This is actually the reverse of the Baldwin effect. If white American culture exercises less control over emotions, particularly in their possible adverse effects on others, there should correspondingly be weaker genetic control. The same selection pressure should have produced similar cultural and genetic outcomes. Yet, paradoxically, the actual outcomes are almost poles apart. Although white Americans are less softwired for empathy and control of emotions, they seem to be more hardwired in this respect.

    This seems similar to http://www.unz.com/pfrost/two-paths/ about the dopamine D4 receptor gene (DRD4) where you said “There is a culture/gene interaction in the carriers, whereas the noncarriers show no difference, regardless of ethnic origin”. I wonder if in polygyny such cultural outcome gene variants are less common.

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  • @Peter Frost
    delayed age at puberty may be associated with negative prodromal symptoms of schizophrenia in males.

    Wouldn't that mean that schizophrenia is less common in younger generations? (since puberty is beginning at younger ages now )

    the need for some young men to work to accumulate their own [ bride price ] before marrying also contributed to later male marriage ages.

    This was the main barrier to young African men on the marriage market. In Western societies, credit card debt is becoming a kind of unofficial bride price. Many young women use marriage as a means to pay off their credit card debts and university loans.

    African slave trade originally resulted from African polygamy.

    It's ironic that African immigrants are eligible for Affirmative Action. Most Africans living today are descended from slave owners, slave traders, and/or slave captors.

    My friend’s great-grandfather was from Hong Kong and had 4 wives, which was legal until the 1970s there. Are Southern Chinese men seen as typically more masculine or testosterone filled, think about it.

    The polygyny rate in China was always less than 10%. It's important to distinguish between societies that permit polygyny and those where most women are in polygynous relationships. The latter societies are unusual outside sub-Saharan Africa, Papua New Guinea, and Melanesia.

    I wonder what the selection pressure for testosterone in older males is.

    Polygyny is associated with fast life history, although I'm not sure whether this holds true for Africa. I've been told by Africans that the death of a father is not the same human tragedy in Africa as it is here. Fathers tend to be old guys, so it's common to lose one's father in childhood.

    Polygamy is allowed in almost every religion for some good reasons, such as, to stop adultery and provide financial support to world’s 50% women population so they don’t have to sell their bodies to feed, clothe and shelter themselves.

    Polygyny encourages adultery because a single old man cannot sexually satisfy all of his wives. It also requires women to support themselves to a greater extent ... or seek support from the government. This is the case in Israel, where the government ends up supporting the wives of polygynous Bedouin chiefs.

    Russia Vladimir Zhirinovsky [...] actively crusaded for the legalization of polygamy in Russia, but failed. He honestly believed that with eleven million surplus women and the deepening demographic crisis in Russia, polygamy would go a long way to fight the demographic decline.

    Women in polygynous relationships have a lower fertility rate than women in monogamous relationships. Also, that figure of eleven million surplus women in Russia should be taken with a grain of salt. It includes single mothers (who have mixed feelings about having more children) and older women who have reduced fertility or no fertility at all.

    If the [male-male] competition was based on wealth from trading then the effect on testosterone might be reversed (or at least different, competitive but in a non-violent way).


    Only in a society where the State monopolizes the use of violence. Otherwise, a successful trader will still have to defend himself and his wives (and daughters) from predatory young men.

    If more Jews had practiced polygamy instead of having one or two women in closet – their population would have been more than 13 million after 3500 years.

    Population growth is a function of the means to support that growth. Otherwise, the surplus population will perish (famine, war, plagues, etc.). In the 1600s, Ashkenazi Jews numbered only half a million. There was then a spurt of population growth made possible by expansion of the market economy. Polygyny isn't necessary to drive population growth.

    A lot of working class women end up as single mothers on welfare after having children with “bad boy” working class males and single middle class males aren’t interested in relationships with them. Perhaps it would be better if more working class women entered into three way relationships with successful, extroverted white males who already have partners.

    At present, there are more single men than single women in the 20 to 40 age bracket. This imbalance is even greater if we look only at childless singles. So there's no shortage of potential husbands out there. The problem is on the other side of the ledger: the large number of women who are in polygynous relationships (either serial or nonserial polygyny), as well as the large number who become single mothers and drop out of the marriage market.

    But that wouldn’t absolve whitey. It’s really “demand” that drives an industry, not necessarily the “supply”.

    Supply tends to create its own demand.

    It doesn’t seem that American black men have the problem of a lack of partners.

    Large numbers of young African American men have been removed from the marriage market through incarceration.

    “Large numbers of young African American men have been removed from the marriage market through incarceration.”

    They’ve been removed from society, but I wouldn’t think they’ve been removed from the marriage market for long, unless there is a substantial sentence. Judging by the percentage of one parent families among blacks who aren’t in prison, I also wouldn’t think that the incarcerated black men are all that interested in marriage. I’d even guess that many of the black men in prison already have children that they didn’t live with before going to prison. Most will probably return to communities where being jailed isn’t going to scare the women away.

    Have black women been physically/genetically shaped by polygyny?

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  • @Sean
    Badcock

    Interestingly in this respect, rates of admission for PSDs like schizophrenia have decreased by between 10 and 57 per cent in England and Wales, Scotland, Denmark, Australia, and New Zealand. Indeed, even Bleuler, who coined the term schizophrenia, noticed a secular decline in his own lifetime, and a recent Canadian study showed a 42 per cent decrease in the number of first-admission schizophrenia cases over 20 years. It found that annual inpatient prevalence rates decreased by 52 per cent between1986 and 1996, with no corresponding change in outpatient rates,
     
    Badcock

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-imprinted-brain/201501/testosterone-v-oxytocin-bridging-the-gene-behaviour-gap ...suggests in particular that higher oxytocin, and lower testosterone, should be associated with increased levels of hyper-developed, dysregulated, or affectively biased mentalistic cognition in schizophrenia and depression, as well as other psychotic-affective conditions. For example, a paradigmatic hyper-mentalistic symptom of schizophrenia, paranoia, explicitly involves an exaggerated ‘me and them’ social relationship, and so might be expected to involve unresolved, oxytocin-associated stress and anxiety given the central role of this hormone in mediating both positive, and negative, social connections, and its apparent role in shifting cognition from self to other orientation (…).
     

    “a recent Canadian study showed a 42 per cent decrease in the number of first-admission schizophrenia cases over 20 years.”

    The logical conclusion is that schizophrenia is a cultural phenomena. Schizophrenia is the result of traumatic events.

    It is very simple – traumatic events can cripple the human mind.

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  • In a mixed group, women become quieter, less assertive, and more compliant. This deference is shown only to men and not to other women in the group. A related phenomenon is the sex gap in self-esteem: women tend to feel less self-esteem in all social settings. The gap begins at puberty and is greatest in...
  • […] Frost recently posted on female shyness among men–more specifically, on the observation that adolescent white females appear to become very shy […]

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  • In my last column, I reviewed the findings of Butovskaya et al. (2015) on testosterone and polygyny in two East African peoples: - Testosterone levels were higher in the polygynous Datoga than in the monogamous Hadza. This difference is innate. - Datoga men were more aggressive than Hadza men on all measures used (physical aggression,...
  • @Peter Frost
    The Senegal study was conducted in the Sine Saloum region inhabited mostly by the small Serer ethnic minority (14%). Much more of the country is ethnically Wolof (43%) and might have given varying results.

    The study was done in Senegal but it wasn't a study on Senegal (which is a creation of French colonial rule). It was a study on hormonal and behavioral differences between monogamous and polygynous men. In any case, we have similar data from other populations of sub-Saharan African origin.

    Polygamy was usually Bigamy, with the average number of wives per man in West Africa at about 1.2-2.

    The expression "was usually" is misleading for a study that was done in the year 2000. As the authors themselves note, the polygyny rate was much higher only 30 years earlier. (the study uses the term 'polygyamy'):

    Less well known is the rate at which polygamy has declined in Africa in recent decades. In Benin, Burkina Faso, Guinea, and Senegal, more than 60% of married women recorded in DHS data in 1970 were polygamists at the time they were surveyed. For women married in 2000 in these countries, the polygamy rate is less than 40%. Several other countries with DHS surveys have experienced similar erosions of polygamy.
     
    The decline in the polygyny rate doesn't mean a decline in polygynous behavior. A big factor seems to be a desire to conform to Christian behavioral norms. If we look at the map (Figure 1), polygyny rates are remaining high in the northern, more Muslim areas of West Africa.

    Sean,

    Interesting. I was unaware of the decline in schizophrenia rates.

    “The expression “was usually” is misleading for a study that was done in the year 2000. As the authors themselves note, the polygyny rate was much higher only 30 years earlier. (the study uses the term ‘polygyamy’):”

    I should have been more specific. The more recent study I cited was only the source of the quote on the number of women in polygamous marriages.
    The preceding statement on the number of wives per man (“Polygamy was usually Bigamy, with the average number of wives per man … at about 1.2-2″) comes rather from data in Boserup that can be found in the source below (table p. 391)

    The dates are 1930′s – mid. twentieth century.

    Perspectives on Africa: A Reader in Culture, History and Representation p. 391

    https://books.google.com/books?id=myLOFYZ4dQ0C&pg=PA390&dq=average+number+of+wives+africa&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAGoVChMI1tas_fb0yAIVRlU-Ch2uYQch#v=onepage&q=average%20number%20of%20wives%20africa&f=false

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  • The Senegal study was conducted in the Sine Saloum region inhabited mostly by the small Serer ethnic minority (14%). Much more of the country is ethnically Wolof (43%) and might have given varying results.

    The study was done in Senegal but it wasn’t a study on Senegal (which is a creation of French colonial rule). It was a study on hormonal and behavioral differences between monogamous and polygynous men. In any case, we have similar data from other populations of sub-Saharan African origin.

    Polygamy was usually Bigamy, with the average number of wives per man in West Africa at about 1.2-2.

    The expression “was usually” is misleading for a study that was done in the year 2000. As the authors themselves note, the polygyny rate was much higher only 30 years earlier. (the study uses the term ‘polygyamy’):

    Less well known is the rate at which polygamy has declined in Africa in recent decades. In Benin, Burkina Faso, Guinea, and Senegal, more than 60% of married women recorded in DHS data in 1970 were polygamists at the time they were surveyed. For women married in 2000 in these countries, the polygamy rate is less than 40%. Several other countries with DHS surveys have experienced similar erosions of polygamy.

    The decline in the polygyny rate doesn’t mean a decline in polygynous behavior. A big factor seems to be a desire to conform to Christian behavioral norms. If we look at the map (Figure 1), polygyny rates are remaining high in the northern, more Muslim areas of West Africa.

    Sean,

    Interesting. I was unaware of the decline in schizophrenia rates.

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    • Replies: @Jm8
    "The expression “was usually” is misleading for a study that was done in the year 2000. As the authors themselves note, the polygyny rate was much higher only 30 years earlier. (the study uses the term ‘polygyamy’):"

    I should have been more specific. The more recent study I cited was only the source of the quote on the number of women in polygamous marriages.
    The preceding statement on the number of wives per man ("Polygamy was usually Bigamy, with the average number of wives per man ... at about 1.2-2") comes rather from data in Boserup that can be found in the source below (table p. 391)

    The dates are 1930's - mid. twentieth century.

    Perspectives on Africa: A Reader in Culture, History and Representation p. 391

    https://books.google.com/books?id=myLOFYZ4dQ0C&pg=PA390&dq=average+number+of+wives+africa&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAGoVChMI1tas_fb0yAIVRlU-Ch2uYQch#v=onepage&q=average%20number%20of%20wives%20africa&f=false
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  • @Peter Frost
    delayed age at puberty may be associated with negative prodromal symptoms of schizophrenia in males.

    Wouldn't that mean that schizophrenia is less common in younger generations? (since puberty is beginning at younger ages now )

    the need for some young men to work to accumulate their own [ bride price ] before marrying also contributed to later male marriage ages.

    This was the main barrier to young African men on the marriage market. In Western societies, credit card debt is becoming a kind of unofficial bride price. Many young women use marriage as a means to pay off their credit card debts and university loans.

    African slave trade originally resulted from African polygamy.

    It's ironic that African immigrants are eligible for Affirmative Action. Most Africans living today are descended from slave owners, slave traders, and/or slave captors.

    My friend’s great-grandfather was from Hong Kong and had 4 wives, which was legal until the 1970s there. Are Southern Chinese men seen as typically more masculine or testosterone filled, think about it.

    The polygyny rate in China was always less than 10%. It's important to distinguish between societies that permit polygyny and those where most women are in polygynous relationships. The latter societies are unusual outside sub-Saharan Africa, Papua New Guinea, and Melanesia.

    I wonder what the selection pressure for testosterone in older males is.

    Polygyny is associated with fast life history, although I'm not sure whether this holds true for Africa. I've been told by Africans that the death of a father is not the same human tragedy in Africa as it is here. Fathers tend to be old guys, so it's common to lose one's father in childhood.

    Polygamy is allowed in almost every religion for some good reasons, such as, to stop adultery and provide financial support to world’s 50% women population so they don’t have to sell their bodies to feed, clothe and shelter themselves.

    Polygyny encourages adultery because a single old man cannot sexually satisfy all of his wives. It also requires women to support themselves to a greater extent ... or seek support from the government. This is the case in Israel, where the government ends up supporting the wives of polygynous Bedouin chiefs.

    Russia Vladimir Zhirinovsky [...] actively crusaded for the legalization of polygamy in Russia, but failed. He honestly believed that with eleven million surplus women and the deepening demographic crisis in Russia, polygamy would go a long way to fight the demographic decline.

    Women in polygynous relationships have a lower fertility rate than women in monogamous relationships. Also, that figure of eleven million surplus women in Russia should be taken with a grain of salt. It includes single mothers (who have mixed feelings about having more children) and older women who have reduced fertility or no fertility at all.

    If the [male-male] competition was based on wealth from trading then the effect on testosterone might be reversed (or at least different, competitive but in a non-violent way).


    Only in a society where the State monopolizes the use of violence. Otherwise, a successful trader will still have to defend himself and his wives (and daughters) from predatory young men.

    If more Jews had practiced polygamy instead of having one or two women in closet – their population would have been more than 13 million after 3500 years.

    Population growth is a function of the means to support that growth. Otherwise, the surplus population will perish (famine, war, plagues, etc.). In the 1600s, Ashkenazi Jews numbered only half a million. There was then a spurt of population growth made possible by expansion of the market economy. Polygyny isn't necessary to drive population growth.

    A lot of working class women end up as single mothers on welfare after having children with “bad boy” working class males and single middle class males aren’t interested in relationships with them. Perhaps it would be better if more working class women entered into three way relationships with successful, extroverted white males who already have partners.

    At present, there are more single men than single women in the 20 to 40 age bracket. This imbalance is even greater if we look only at childless singles. So there's no shortage of potential husbands out there. The problem is on the other side of the ledger: the large number of women who are in polygynous relationships (either serial or nonserial polygyny), as well as the large number who become single mothers and drop out of the marriage market.

    But that wouldn’t absolve whitey. It’s really “demand” that drives an industry, not necessarily the “supply”.

    Supply tends to create its own demand.

    It doesn’t seem that American black men have the problem of a lack of partners.

    Large numbers of young African American men have been removed from the marriage market through incarceration.

    Badcock

    Interestingly in this respect, rates of admission for PSDs like schizophrenia have decreased by between 10 and 57 per cent in England and Wales, Scotland, Denmark, Australia, and New Zealand. Indeed, even Bleuler, who coined the term schizophrenia, noticed a secular decline in his own lifetime, and a recent Canadian study showed a 42 per cent decrease in the number of first-admission schizophrenia cases over 20 years. It found that annual inpatient prevalence rates decreased by 52 per cent between1986 and 1996, with no corresponding change in outpatient rates,

    Badcock

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-imprinted-brain/201501/testosterone-v-oxytocin-bridging-the-gene-behaviour-gap …suggests in particular that higher oxytocin, and lower testosterone, should be associated with increased levels of hyper-developed, dysregulated, or affectively biased mentalistic cognition in schizophrenia and depression, as well as other psychotic-affective conditions. For example, a paradigmatic hyper-mentalistic symptom of schizophrenia, paranoia, explicitly involves an exaggerated ‘me and them’ social relationship, and so might be expected to involve unresolved, oxytocin-associated stress and anxiety given the central role of this hormone in mediating both positive, and negative, social connections, and its apparent role in shifting cognition from self to other orientation (…).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art
    “a recent Canadian study showed a 42 per cent decrease in the number of first-admission schizophrenia cases over 20 years.”

    The logical conclusion is that schizophrenia is a cultural phenomena. Schizophrenia is the result of traumatic events.

    It is very simple - traumatic events can cripple the human mind.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • “Wouldn’t that mean that schizophrenia is less common in younger generations? (since puberty is beginning at younger ages now” .
    Yes and it is.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Peter Frost
    delayed age at puberty may be associated with negative prodromal symptoms of schizophrenia in males.

    Wouldn't that mean that schizophrenia is less common in younger generations? (since puberty is beginning at younger ages now )

    the need for some young men to work to accumulate their own [ bride price ] before marrying also contributed to later male marriage ages.

    This was the main barrier to young African men on the marriage market. In Western societies, credit card debt is becoming a kind of unofficial bride price. Many young women use marriage as a means to pay off their credit card debts and university loans.

    African slave trade originally resulted from African polygamy.

    It's ironic that African immigrants are eligible for Affirmative Action. Most Africans living today are descended from slave owners, slave traders, and/or slave captors.

    My friend’s great-grandfather was from Hong Kong and had 4 wives, which was legal until the 1970s there. Are Southern Chinese men seen as typically more masculine or testosterone filled, think about it.

    The polygyny rate in China was always less than 10%. It's important to distinguish between societies that permit polygyny and those where most women are in polygynous relationships. The latter societies are unusual outside sub-Saharan Africa, Papua New Guinea, and Melanesia.

    I wonder what the selection pressure for testosterone in older males is.

    Polygyny is associated with fast life history, although I'm not sure whether this holds true for Africa. I've been told by Africans that the death of a father is not the same human tragedy in Africa as it is here. Fathers tend to be old guys, so it's common to lose one's father in childhood.

    Polygamy is allowed in almost every religion for some good reasons, such as, to stop adultery and provide financial support to world’s 50% women population so they don’t have to sell their bodies to feed, clothe and shelter themselves.

    Polygyny encourages adultery because a single old man cannot sexually satisfy all of his wives. It also requires women to support themselves to a greater extent ... or seek support from the government. This is the case in Israel, where the government ends up supporting the wives of polygynous Bedouin chiefs.

    Russia Vladimir Zhirinovsky [...] actively crusaded for the legalization of polygamy in Russia, but failed. He honestly believed that with eleven million surplus women and the deepening demographic crisis in Russia, polygamy would go a long way to fight the demographic decline.

    Women in polygynous relationships have a lower fertility rate than women in monogamous relationships. Also, that figure of eleven million surplus women in Russia should be taken with a grain of salt. It includes single mothers (who have mixed feelings about having more children) and older women who have reduced fertility or no fertility at all.

    If the [male-male] competition was based on wealth from trading then the effect on testosterone might be reversed (or at least different, competitive but in a non-violent way).


    Only in a society where the State monopolizes the use of violence. Otherwise, a successful trader will still have to defend himself and his wives (and daughters) from predatory young men.

    If more Jews had practiced polygamy instead of having one or two women in closet – their population would have been more than 13 million after 3500 years.

    Population growth is a function of the means to support that growth. Otherwise, the surplus population will perish (famine, war, plagues, etc.). In the 1600s, Ashkenazi Jews numbered only half a million. There was then a spurt of population growth made possible by expansion of the market economy. Polygyny isn't necessary to drive population growth.

    A lot of working class women end up as single mothers on welfare after having children with “bad boy” working class males and single middle class males aren’t interested in relationships with them. Perhaps it would be better if more working class women entered into three way relationships with successful, extroverted white males who already have partners.

    At present, there are more single men than single women in the 20 to 40 age bracket. This imbalance is even greater if we look only at childless singles. So there's no shortage of potential husbands out there. The problem is on the other side of the ledger: the large number of women who are in polygynous relationships (either serial or nonserial polygyny), as well as the large number who become single mothers and drop out of the marriage market.

    But that wouldn’t absolve whitey. It’s really “demand” that drives an industry, not necessarily the “supply”.

    Supply tends to create its own demand.

    It doesn’t seem that American black men have the problem of a lack of partners.

    Large numbers of young African American men have been removed from the marriage market through incarceration.

    Supply tends to create its own demand.

    I think that’s the old economic saw. But the caveat is that more supply can’t create more demand if the demand really isn’t there. Sometimes the demand curve is a perpendicular line.

    Let’s take drugs for example. Notwithstanding the global supply, drugs aren’t popular everywhere around the world. Why? Surely not due to lack of willing sellers, but because demand, by legal threat and social norms, has been cut off.

    The consequences for some things are too onerous or taboo (for the consumer). Regardless of supply at any price, it’s hard to find takers.

    Some commodities are too obsolete. Room-sized computers? Cathode ray tube monitors? Regardless of supply, very few buyers I imagine.

    So, true, supply does create its own demand, assuming the price is right and a demand curve for it exists at all.

    Great article, by the way, Peter.

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  • @Jm8
    "Perhaps the key difference is that polygyny in EAsia was reserved mainly for the aristocracy."

    It may have been reserved for the rich there to a greater extent than Africa, but African Polygamy was usually Bigamy, with the average number of wives per man in West Africa at about 1.2-2.

    The bride wealth that allowed men to marry a first wife was traditionally given to some by more prosperous fathers. Others (poorer men) had to earn their own. Those with harems were usually richer men such as chiefs and traders. The kinds of Ashanti and Dahomey had large harems.

    http://www.voxeu.org/article/african-polygamy-past-and-present

    "Polygamy in the data is largely bigamy – 72% of respondents report that they are the only wife, 19% report that their husband has two wives, 7% report that he has three wives, and fewer than 2% report that he has 4 wives or more."

    correction: the “Kings” of Ashanti and Dahomey….

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  • @bach

    My friend’s great-grandfather was from Hong Kong and had 4 wives, which was legal until the 1970s there. Are Southern Chinese men seen as typically more masculine or testosterone filled, think about it.
     
    Perhaps the key difference is that polygyny in EAsia was reserved mainly for the aristocracy.

    “Perhaps the key difference is that polygyny in EAsia was reserved mainly for the aristocracy.”

    It may have been reserved for the rich there to a greater extent than Africa, but African Polygamy was usually Bigamy, with the average number of wives per man in West Africa at about 1.2-2.

    The bride wealth that allowed men to marry a first wife was traditionally given to some by more prosperous fathers. Others (poorer men) had to earn their own. Those with harems were usually richer men such as chiefs and traders. The kinds of Ashanti and Dahomey had large harems.

    http://www.voxeu.org/article/african-polygamy-past-and-present

    “Polygamy in the data is largely bigamy – 72% of respondents report that they are the only wife, 19% report that their husband has two wives, 7% report that he has three wives, and fewer than 2% report that he has 4 wives or more.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jm8
    correction: the "Kings" of Ashanti and Dahomey....
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • delayed age at puberty may be associated with negative prodromal symptoms of schizophrenia in males.

    Wouldn’t that mean that schizophrenia is less common in younger generations? (since puberty is beginning at younger ages now )

    the need for some young men to work to accumulate their own [ bride price ] before marrying also contributed to later male marriage ages.

    This was the main barrier to young African men on the marriage market. In Western societies, credit card debt is becoming a kind of unofficial bride price. Many young women use marriage as a means to pay off their credit card debts and university loans.

    African slave trade originally resulted from African polygamy.

    It’s ironic that African immigrants are eligible for Affirmative Action. Most Africans living today are descended from slave owners, slave traders, and/or slave captors.

    My friend’s great-grandfather was from Hong Kong and had 4 wives, which was legal until the 1970s there. Are Southern Chinese men seen as typically more masculine or testosterone filled, think about it.

    The polygyny rate in China was always less than 10%. It’s important to distinguish between societies that permit polygyny and those where most women are in polygynous relationships. The latter societies are unusual outside sub-Saharan Africa, Papua New Guinea, and Melanesia.

    I wonder what the selection pressure for testosterone in older males is.

    Polygyny is associated with fast life history, although I’m not sure whether this holds true for Africa. I’ve been told by Africans that the death of a father is not the same human tragedy in Africa as it is here. Fathers tend to be old guys, so it’s common to lose one’s father in childhood.

    Polygamy is allowed in almost every religion for some good reasons, such as, to stop adultery and provide financial support to world’s 50% women population so they don’t have to sell their bodies to feed, clothe and shelter themselves.

    Polygyny encourages adultery because a single old man cannot sexually satisfy all of his wives. It also requires women to support themselves to a greater extent … or seek support from the government. This is the case in Israel, where the government ends up supporting the wives of polygynous Bedouin chiefs.

    Russia Vladimir Zhirinovsky [...] actively crusaded for the legalization of polygamy in Russia, but failed. He honestly believed that with eleven million surplus women and the deepening demographic crisis in Russia, polygamy would go a long way to fight the demographic decline.

    Women in polygynous relationships have a lower fertility rate than women in monogamous relationships. Also, that figure of eleven million surplus women in Russia should be taken with a grain of salt. It includes single mothers (who have mixed feelings about having more children) and older women who have reduced fertility or no fertility at all.

    If the [male-male] competition was based on wealth from trading then the effect on testosterone might be reversed (or at least different, competitive but in a non-violent way).

    Only in a society where the State monopolizes the use of violence. Otherwise, a successful trader will still have to defend himself and his wives (and daughters) from predatory young men.

    If more Jews had practiced polygamy instead of having one or two women in closet – their population would have been more than 13 million after 3500 years.

    Population growth is a function of the means to support that growth. Otherwise, the surplus population will perish (famine, war, plagues, etc.). In the 1600s, Ashkenazi Jews numbered only half a million. There was then a spurt of population growth made possible by expansion of the market economy. Polygyny isn’t necessary to drive population growth.

    A lot of working class women end up as single mothers on welfare after having children with “bad boy” working class males and single middle class males aren’t interested in relationships with them. Perhaps it would be better if more working class women entered into three way relationships with successful, extroverted white males who already have partners.

    At present, there are more single men than single women in the 20 to 40 age bracket. This imbalance is even greater if we look only at childless singles. So there’s no shortage of potential husbands out there. The problem is on the other side of the ledger: the large number of women who are in polygynous relationships (either serial or nonserial polygyny), as well as the large number who become single mothers and drop out of the marriage market.

    But that wouldn’t absolve whitey. It’s really “demand” that drives an industry, not necessarily the “supply”.

    Supply tends to create its own demand.

    It doesn’t seem that American black men have the problem of a lack of partners.

    Large numbers of young African American men have been removed from the marriage market through incarceration.

    Read More
    • Replies: @bach

    Supply tends to create its own demand.
     
    I think that's the old economic saw. But the caveat is that more supply can't create more demand if the demand really isn't there. Sometimes the demand curve is a perpendicular line.

    Let's take drugs for example. Notwithstanding the global supply, drugs aren't popular everywhere around the world. Why? Surely not due to lack of willing sellers, but because demand, by legal threat and social norms, has been cut off.

    The consequences for some things are too onerous or taboo (for the consumer). Regardless of supply at any price, it's hard to find takers.

    Some commodities are too obsolete. Room-sized computers? Cathode ray tube monitors? Regardless of supply, very few buyers I imagine.

    So, true, supply does create its own demand, assuming the price is right and a demand curve for it exists at all.

    Great article, by the way, Peter.
    , @Sean
    Badcock

    Interestingly in this respect, rates of admission for PSDs like schizophrenia have decreased by between 10 and 57 per cent in England and Wales, Scotland, Denmark, Australia, and New Zealand. Indeed, even Bleuler, who coined the term schizophrenia, noticed a secular decline in his own lifetime, and a recent Canadian study showed a 42 per cent decrease in the number of first-admission schizophrenia cases over 20 years. It found that annual inpatient prevalence rates decreased by 52 per cent between1986 and 1996, with no corresponding change in outpatient rates,
     
    Badcock

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-imprinted-brain/201501/testosterone-v-oxytocin-bridging-the-gene-behaviour-gap ...suggests in particular that higher oxytocin, and lower testosterone, should be associated with increased levels of hyper-developed, dysregulated, or affectively biased mentalistic cognition in schizophrenia and depression, as well as other psychotic-affective conditions. For example, a paradigmatic hyper-mentalistic symptom of schizophrenia, paranoia, explicitly involves an exaggerated ‘me and them’ social relationship, and so might be expected to involve unresolved, oxytocin-associated stress and anxiety given the central role of this hormone in mediating both positive, and negative, social connections, and its apparent role in shifting cognition from self to other orientation (…).
     
    , @OilcanFloyd
    "Large numbers of young African American men have been removed from the marriage market through incarceration."

    They've been removed from society, but I wouldn't think they've been removed from the marriage market for long, unless there is a substantial sentence. Judging by the percentage of one parent families among blacks who aren't in prison, I also wouldn't think that the incarcerated black men are all that interested in marriage. I'd even guess that many of the black men in prison already have children that they didn't live with before going to prison. Most will probably return to communities where being jailed isn't going to scare the women away.

    Have black women been physically/genetically shaped by polygyny?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • The Senegal study was conducted in the Sine Saloum region inhabited mostly by the small Serer ethnic minority (14%). Much more of the country is ethnically Wolof (43%) and might have given varying results.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_Senegal

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  • It doesn’t seem that American black men have the problem of a lack of partners. How long is it going to take evolution to sort this mess out?

    Has evolution shaped black women to be different than Asian or European women?

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  • @Santoculto
    Yes, but your answer seems had been for refute the idea that ''testosterone (maybe/also can) affect negatively cognition''.

    It’s a double-edged sword, seems.

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  • @matt
    Are you talking about the difference in variance? Sure, but that cuts both ways. There are more men who score really high as well.

    Yes, but your answer seems had been for refute the idea that ”testosterone (maybe/also can) affect negatively cognition”.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Santoculto
    It's a double-edged sword, seems.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @iffen

    there were breeding farms where selected black slaves would impregnate indentured or transported women from the British Isles
     
    Sources please.
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  • there were breeding farms where selected black slaves would impregnate indentured or transported women from the British Isles

    Sources please.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sean
    http://www.amazon.com/To-Hell-Barbados-Cleansing-Ireland/dp/0863222870
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Santoculto
    ''But men don’t have lower IQs than women.''

    But more men have/score lower in iq tests than women.

    Are you talking about the difference in variance? Sure, but that cuts both ways. There are more men who score really high as well.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Santoculto
    Yes, but your answer seems had been for refute the idea that ''testosterone (maybe/also can) affect negatively cognition''.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Many blacks in the US and West Indies are descended from the Mandinka tribe, of Gambia, there were breeding farms where selected black slaves would impregnate indentured or transported women from the British Isles.

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  • @Mikeybikey

    We now come to a leading cause of the African slave trade. Polygyny led to warfare, which led to a surplus of unwanted male captives. These captives could be sold as slaves, but local markets would soon be saturated. The excess supply had to be sold farther away, with the result that slave trading networks began to reach the Middle East as early as the time of Christ (Frost, 2008).

    While outsiders from the Middle East and Europe would later get more and more involved, becoming not only traders but also captors, it was Africans themselves who initially controlled the supply chain. In its early stages, and even later, this trade was driven by factors internal to Africa.
     
    The money quote. African slave trade originally resulted from African polygamy. Who would have thought? Jesse and Al will be screaming for whitey's head as soon as they hear about it.

    The money quote. African slave trade originally resulted from African polygamy. Who would have thought? Jesse and Al will be screaming for whitey’s head as soon as they hear about it.

    But that wouldn’t absolve whitey. It’s really “demand” that drives an industry, not necessarily the “supply”.

    What this does tell is us is that complicity was there and contributed in shaping the context of European “demand”.

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  • @Myra Esoteric
    My friend's great-grandfather was from Hong Kong and had 4 wives, which was legal until the 1970s there. Are Southern Chinese men seen as typically more masculine or testosterone filled, think about it.

    My friend’s great-grandfather was from Hong Kong and had 4 wives, which was legal until the 1970s there. Are Southern Chinese men seen as typically more masculine or testosterone filled, think about it.

    Perhaps the key difference is that polygyny in EAsia was reserved mainly for the aristocracy.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jm8
    "Perhaps the key difference is that polygyny in EAsia was reserved mainly for the aristocracy."

    It may have been reserved for the rich there to a greater extent than Africa, but African Polygamy was usually Bigamy, with the average number of wives per man in West Africa at about 1.2-2.

    The bride wealth that allowed men to marry a first wife was traditionally given to some by more prosperous fathers. Others (poorer men) had to earn their own. Those with harems were usually richer men such as chiefs and traders. The kinds of Ashanti and Dahomey had large harems.

    http://www.voxeu.org/article/african-polygamy-past-and-present

    "Polygamy in the data is largely bigamy – 72% of respondents report that they are the only wife, 19% report that their husband has two wives, 7% report that he has three wives, and fewer than 2% report that he has 4 wives or more."
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @matt

    Testosterone is apparently related to IQ as well.
     
    But men don't have lower IQs than women.

    ”But men don’t have lower IQs than women.”

    But more men have/score lower in iq tests than women.

    Read More
    • Replies: @matt
    Are you talking about the difference in variance? Sure, but that cuts both ways. There are more men who score really high as well.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Rehmat
    @anon

    Your imagination is not based on facts. West Germany allowed polygamy after WWII to decrease German widows and orphan being forced to prostitution. If more Jews had practiced polygamy instead of having one or two women in closet - their population would have been more than 13 million after 3500 years.

    A 2009 study, entitled 'The Paradox of Declining Female Happiness,' conducted by professors Betsey Stevenson and Justin Wolfers (University of Pennsylvania) for the Social Science Research Network (SSRN) – concludes that though American women are better off economically since 1970s – socially they feel more miserable than before….. The women who have been to a women shelter (there are 300 of those in Canada as compared to none for the men) – will tell you how callously they are treated by the hags employed there. Distressed women are pressured to end their marriages and are offered help and resources to do so. Feminists are not interested in the welfare of women. They rely on domestic violence for their cushy jobs and to emasculate men – by portraying them as abusers….”

    http://rehmat1.com/2009/10/17/study-american-women-are-not-happy/

    Your imagination is not based on facts. West Germany allowed polygamy after WWII to decrease German widows and orphan being forced to prostitution.

    Right, so except after a massive war where large numbers of men have been killed then a monogamous culture will generally have a higher effective population size.

    That doesn’t mean it’s better just that a faster rate of mutation might be a balancing advantage.

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  • @Rehmat
    @anon

    Your imagination is not based on facts. West Germany allowed polygamy after WWII to decrease German widows and orphan being forced to prostitution. If more Jews had practiced polygamy instead of having one or two women in closet - their population would have been more than 13 million after 3500 years.

    A 2009 study, entitled 'The Paradox of Declining Female Happiness,' conducted by professors Betsey Stevenson and Justin Wolfers (University of Pennsylvania) for the Social Science Research Network (SSRN) – concludes that though American women are better off economically since 1970s – socially they feel more miserable than before….. The women who have been to a women shelter (there are 300 of those in Canada as compared to none for the men) – will tell you how callously they are treated by the hags employed there. Distressed women are pressured to end their marriages and are offered help and resources to do so. Feminists are not interested in the welfare of women. They rely on domestic violence for their cushy jobs and to emasculate men – by portraying them as abusers….”

    http://rehmat1.com/2009/10/17/study-american-women-are-not-happy/

    Feminists are ideological egalitarians, and thus can’t see that underclass men treat women a lot worse than middle class men do. They genuinely think that a mild mannered accountant is just as likely to hit a woman as an itinerant labourer with a drug habit. By perceiving domestic violence as something that is widespread, instead of highly concentrated among the underclass, left wing social workers increase the likelihood of underclass women and children being abused and make middle class women more neurotic and anti-male.

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  • Schizophrenia is the result of trauma – not genetics.

    Peter Roger Breggin (born May 11, 1936)[1] is an American psychiatrist and critic of biological psychiatry and psychiatric medication. In his books, he advocates replacing psychiatry’s use of drugs and electroconvulsive therapy with psychotherapy, education, empathy, love and broader human services

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Breggin

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  • The general attitude of HBD bloggers like Steve Sailer is that polygamy is bad thing, but I wonder if the western world would benefit from more toleration of trigamy.

    A lot of working class women end up as single mothers on welfare after having children with “bad boy” working class males and single middle class males aren’t interested in relationships with them. Perhaps it would be better if more working class women entered into three way relationships with successful, extroverted white males who already have partners. Often such men are married to bisexual women who would probably be open to three-way relationships. Tax relief could be provided for men supporting more than one woman.

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  • @Sean

    This past July, U.S. Sen. John F. Kerry (D-MA) led unanimous passage of the Senate Resolution 493 to recognize prostate cancer as an epidemic striking African American men disproportionately.
     
    They are 1.6 times more likely to be diagnosed with prostate cancer and at least 2.4 times more likely to die of it. The disparity in is due to them having higher rates of invasive prostrate cancers. Quite a lot of prostrates cancers picked up by screening and treated (often leaving men impotent and incontinent) are non progressive and would be better left alone, but US doctors over treat everything, because no one was every sued for that.

    It has been suggested that older fathers are responsible for characteristics of as lowered IQ and prevalence of schizophrenia, but schizophrenia is well known for striking after puberty.Our results suggest that delayed age at puberty may be associated with negative prodromal symptoms of schizophrenia in males.


    http://www.schres-journal.com/article/S0920-9964(15)00124-3/abstract? Our findings suggest that delayed age at puberty could potentially be a predictive biomarker for psychopathology in males at risk for schizophrenia
     
    It's really stupid to think schizophrenia is mainly related to paternal mutations rather that testosterone levels, when no one gets it before adolescence.

    Testosterone is apparently related to IQ as well.


    http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?
    id=10.1371/journal.pone.0054751Significant differences between control and gifted boys in genotype distributions were found for ESR2 (rs928554) and SHBG (rs1799941). A significantly lower number of CAG repeats in the AR gene were found in gifted boys. Our results support the role of genetic factors related to testosterone metabolism in intellectual giftedness. Increased androgen signaling might explain previous results of lower testosterone levels in intellectually gifted boys and add to the understanding of variability in cognitive abilities.
     

    Testosterone is apparently related to IQ as well.

    But men don’t have lower IQs than women.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Santoculto
    ''But men don’t have lower IQs than women.''

    But more men have/score lower in iq tests than women.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Rehmat
    @anon

    Your imagination is not based on facts. West Germany allowed polygamy after WWII to decrease German widows and orphan being forced to prostitution. If more Jews had practiced polygamy instead of having one or two women in closet - their population would have been more than 13 million after 3500 years.

    A 2009 study, entitled 'The Paradox of Declining Female Happiness,' conducted by professors Betsey Stevenson and Justin Wolfers (University of Pennsylvania) for the Social Science Research Network (SSRN) – concludes that though American women are better off economically since 1970s – socially they feel more miserable than before….. The women who have been to a women shelter (there are 300 of those in Canada as compared to none for the men) – will tell you how callously they are treated by the hags employed there. Distressed women are pressured to end their marriages and are offered help and resources to do so. Feminists are not interested in the welfare of women. They rely on domestic violence for their cushy jobs and to emasculate men – by portraying them as abusers….”

    http://rehmat1.com/2009/10/17/study-american-women-are-not-happy/

    Male provisioning raises carrying capacity, and you’re not going to have male provisioning over the long-term if it’s not rewarded with marriage and reproduction. So carrying capacity should go down.

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    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Rehmat
    Polygamy is allowed in almost every religion for some good reasons, such as, to stop adultery and provide financial support to world's 50% women population so they don't have to sell their bodies to feed, clothe and shelter themselves.

    Orthodox Jewish communities, Mormons, African pagans, Hindus and Muslims, still practice polygamy. In fact, in India, there are more Hindu polygamists (4.9%) than Muslim polygamists (3.7%).

    Interestingly, the first western political leader to campaign for polygamy was no other than Duma Deputy Speaker and leader of the Liberal Democratic Party of Russia Vladimir Zhirinovsky. He actively crusaded for the legalization of polygamy in Russia, but failed. He honestly believed that with eleven million surplus women and the deepening demographic crisis in Russia, polygamy would go a long way to fight the demographic decline.

    Olga Gumanova’s article entitled Four wives always better than one?, published on Russian website, Pravda.Ru on April 13, 2011 – makes an interesting reading....

    http://rehmat1.com/2011/04/24/polygamy-and-wests-demographic-decline/

    What Orthodox Jews practice polygamy? Ashkenazi Orthodox do not as it was forbidden by rabbinical decree around a thousand years ago.

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  • @anon
    I'd imagine monogamy must increase effective population size which would speed up mutation rate whereas polygyny would focus selection on traits that were the most useful in a particular environment.

    Your imagination is not based on facts. West Germany allowed polygamy after WWII to decrease German widows and orphan being forced to prostitution. If more Jews had practiced polygamy instead of having one or two women in closet – their population would have been more than 13 million after 3500 years.

    A 2009 study, entitled ‘The Paradox of Declining Female Happiness,’ conducted by professors Betsey Stevenson and Justin Wolfers (University of Pennsylvania) for the Social Science Research Network (SSRN) – concludes that though American women are better off economically since 1970s – socially they feel more miserable than before….. The women who have been to a women shelter (there are 300 of those in Canada as compared to none for the men) – will tell you how callously they are treated by the hags employed there. Distressed women are pressured to end their marriages and are offered help and resources to do so. Feminists are not interested in the welfare of women. They rely on domestic violence for their cushy jobs and to emasculate men – by portraying them as abusers….”

    http://rehmat1.com/2009/10/17/study-american-women-are-not-happy/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Male provisioning raises carrying capacity, and you're not going to have male provisioning over the long-term if it's not rewarded with marriage and reproduction. So carrying capacity should go down.
    , @unpc downunder
    Feminists are ideological egalitarians, and thus can't see that underclass men treat women a lot worse than middle class men do. They genuinely think that a mild mannered accountant is just as likely to hit a woman as an itinerant labourer with a drug habit. By perceiving domestic violence as something that is widespread, instead of highly concentrated among the underclass, left wing social workers increase the likelihood of underclass women and children being abused and make middle class women more neurotic and anti-male.
    , @anon

    Your imagination is not based on facts. West Germany allowed polygamy after WWII to decrease German widows and orphan being forced to prostitution.
     
    Right, so except after a massive war where large numbers of men have been killed then a monogamous culture will generally have a higher effective population size.

    That doesn't mean it's better just that a faster rate of mutation might be a balancing advantage.
    , @Enrique Cardova
    West Germany allowed polygamy after WWII to decrease German widows and orphan being forced to prostitution.
    This seems inaccurate. What people did PRIVATELY in the post-war era is their own business, but neither the West German constitution or laws allowed polygamy.

    You could make a case for the Hitler regime rather than postwar. Though monogamy was still the "official" line, polygamy was tolerated, sometimes encouraged.

    "Although monogamy was the official
    marriage from of Nazi Germany, the
    society in effect, turned toward
    polygamy because Aryan males were
    encouraged to beget Aryan children with
    as many racially qualified women as
    possible- in and out of wedlock."
    --Young-Bruehl (2002) The anatomy
    of prejudices).


    According to The Fuherer in his own words:

    "Let's remember that after the Thirty
    Years War polygamy was tolerated, so
    that it was thanks to the illegitimate
    child that the nations recovered its
    strength."
    --Adolf Hitler

    "As long as we have in Germany two and a half
    million women vowed to celibacy, we shall be
    forbidden to despise the child born out of wedlock."
    --Adolf Hitler

    Quoted in: L. Pine, 1999, Nazi family Policy

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • peculation

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    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Stephen R. Diamond

    Is true that paranoia/ persecution mania tend to correlate also with higher self esteem but probably because higher hormonal/humor variation in a daily basis.
     
    You're saying that the hormonal fluctuations actually drive behavioral instability? (Rather than being mainly a consequence?)

    Do individuals with borderline personality disorder show excessive hormonal fluctuation?

    [Whose theory is this?]

    Mine,

    just speculation ,even a theory.

    I thought this had already been thought before.

    The hormones have an impact on our behavior not *

    Depression is being now known as ” chemical imbalance. ” All mental disorders are related, not *

    I think, as always, the daily hormone imbalance is a cause and consequence, which is expressed by behavior. Everything that happens within us and has relevance or relation to our behavior, will be expressed by behavior.

    Euphoria could be related to higher levels of testosterone, and depressive phases with lower levels. It is a ‘deregulation’. We all have hormonal fluctuations, is not * Only these people, and I a little, we have more acute variations.

    Just peculation.

    other example, schizoid personality, make sense have lower testosterone levels.

    Blacks with higher testosterone levels during adolescence, resulting in aggressive/impulsive behavior.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Santoculto
    Schizophrenia is inside a psychosis spectrum, expected that there is a higher hormonal fluctuations like in bipolar disorder, where euphoria/mania moment may can correlates with higher testosterone activity while depressive period may correlates with lower testosterone activity.

    Is true that paranoia/ persecution mania tend to correlate also with higher self esteem but probably because higher hormonal/humor variation in a daily basis.
    Higher self esteem works with compensatory effect for lower self esteem ideation as well as cause for paranoid ideation.

    Is true that paranoia/ persecution mania tend to correlate also with higher self esteem but probably because higher hormonal/humor variation in a daily basis.

    You’re saying that the hormonal fluctuations actually drive behavioral instability? (Rather than being mainly a consequence?)

    Do individuals with borderline personality disorder show excessive hormonal fluctuation?

    [Whose theory is this?]

    Read More
    • Replies: @Santoculto
    Mine,

    just speculation ,even a theory.

    I thought this had already been thought before.

    The hormones have an impact on our behavior not *

    Depression is being now known as '' chemical imbalance. '' All mental disorders are related, not *

    I think, as always, the daily hormone imbalance is a cause and consequence, which is expressed by behavior. Everything that happens within us and has relevance or relation to our behavior, will be expressed by behavior.

    Euphoria could be related to higher levels of testosterone, and depressive phases with lower levels. It is a 'deregulation'. We all have hormonal fluctuations, is not * Only these people, and I a little, we have more acute variations.

    Just peculation.

    other example, schizoid personality, make sense have lower testosterone levels.

    Blacks with higher testosterone levels during adolescence, resulting in aggressive/impulsive behavior.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Rehmat
    Polygamy is allowed in almost every religion for some good reasons, such as, to stop adultery and provide financial support to world's 50% women population so they don't have to sell their bodies to feed, clothe and shelter themselves.

    Orthodox Jewish communities, Mormons, African pagans, Hindus and Muslims, still practice polygamy. In fact, in India, there are more Hindu polygamists (4.9%) than Muslim polygamists (3.7%).

    Interestingly, the first western political leader to campaign for polygamy was no other than Duma Deputy Speaker and leader of the Liberal Democratic Party of Russia Vladimir Zhirinovsky. He actively crusaded for the legalization of polygamy in Russia, but failed. He honestly believed that with eleven million surplus women and the deepening demographic crisis in Russia, polygamy would go a long way to fight the demographic decline.

    Olga Gumanova’s article entitled Four wives always better than one?, published on Russian website, Pravda.Ru on April 13, 2011 – makes an interesting reading....

    http://rehmat1.com/2011/04/24/polygamy-and-wests-demographic-decline/

    I’d imagine monogamy must increase effective population size which would speed up mutation rate whereas polygyny would focus selection on traits that were the most useful in a particular environment.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rehmat
    @anon

    Your imagination is not based on facts. West Germany allowed polygamy after WWII to decrease German widows and orphan being forced to prostitution. If more Jews had practiced polygamy instead of having one or two women in closet - their population would have been more than 13 million after 3500 years.

    A 2009 study, entitled 'The Paradox of Declining Female Happiness,' conducted by professors Betsey Stevenson and Justin Wolfers (University of Pennsylvania) for the Social Science Research Network (SSRN) – concludes that though American women are better off economically since 1970s – socially they feel more miserable than before….. The women who have been to a women shelter (there are 300 of those in Canada as compared to none for the men) – will tell you how callously they are treated by the hags employed there. Distressed women are pressured to end their marriages and are offered help and resources to do so. Feminists are not interested in the welfare of women. They rely on domestic violence for their cushy jobs and to emasculate men – by portraying them as abusers….”

    http://rehmat1.com/2009/10/17/study-american-women-are-not-happy/
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.