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 All Comments / On "Abortion"
    Last month marked 44 years since the Supreme Court’s Roe v. Wade decision declaring a constitutional right to abortion. Roe remains one of the Supreme Court’s most controversial decisions. Even some progressive legal theorists who favor legalized abortion have criticized Roe for judicial overreach and faulty reasoning. Throughout my medical and political careers, I have...
  • Obamacare does not need to be fixed any more than USSR needed to be fixed. Ann Coulter explains:

    “Congress can start removing all the bad stuff from the U.S. Code, such as:
    — the requirement that hospitals provide “free” care to anyone who shows up (how about separate health clinics for poor people with the sniffles?);
    — the exemption of insurance companies from the antitrust laws (where all our problems began); and
    — the tax breaks only for employer-provided health insurance (viciously and arbitrarily punishing the self-employed). “

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  • @Astuteobservor II
    if the argument is for contraceptions, I am 1000% for it :P save us all from the retarded drama and a ton of money.

    if the argument is life begins the moment a sperm got into an egg, I will give you the finger :)

    Life doesn’t begin at conception because life never ended. Both the sperm and the egg are already alive when they meet.

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  • @jtgw
    What makes you think that abortion, rather than contraception, is society's principal means of birth control? Nobody is saying you should have an unlimited number of children and force taxpayers to support them; we're saying that once the child is conceived, aborting it is murder, just as exposing it on the hillside after birth is murder.

    if the argument is for contraceptions, I am 1000% for it :P save us all from the retarded drama and a ton of money.

    if the argument is life begins the moment a sperm got into an egg, I will give you the finger :)

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    • Replies: @jtgw
    Life doesn't begin at conception because life never ended. Both the sperm and the egg are already alive when they meet.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Pat Kittle
    With all due respect…

    Will Congress stop forcing pro-abortion Americans to subsidize all the unwanted children?

    And all their inevitable crime, and all their inevitable future unwanted children, etc., etc.?

    Actually the correlation between abortion rates and crime rates goes the other way:

    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/pre-emptive-executions/

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  • @Astuteobservor II
    is that still how churches gain some of it's future followers?

    that aside, how many orphans are in the foster care system? last I checked it was about 400k. and how many single mothers and their unwanted child will be on welfare after forced birth?

    whoever came out with this must have been kicked in the head to be trying to use this for the pro birth stance.

    What makes you think that abortion, rather than contraception, is society’s principal means of birth control? Nobody is saying you should have an unlimited number of children and force taxpayers to support them; we’re saying that once the child is conceived, aborting it is murder, just as exposing it on the hillside after birth is murder.

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    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
    if the argument is for contraceptions, I am 1000% for it :P save us all from the retarded drama and a ton of money.

    if the argument is life begins the moment a sperm got into an egg, I will give you the finger :)
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Good luck with that idea.

    Elective abortion-on-demand is one of the nonnegotiable federal entitlements currently enjoyed by queers.

    The US constitution says abortion is a state-people issue, but queers are a federal protected class group, and have numerous and powerful diversity cronies to help them keep it a federal entitlement.

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  • With all due respect…

    Will Congress stop forcing pro-abortion Americans to subsidize all the unwanted children?

    And all their inevitable crime, and all their inevitable future unwanted children, etc., etc.?

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    • Replies: @jtgw
    Actually the correlation between abortion rates and crime rates goes the other way:

    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/pre-emptive-executions/
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  • is that still how churches gain some of it’s future followers?

    that aside, how many orphans are in the foster care system? last I checked it was about 400k. and how many single mothers and their unwanted child will be on welfare after forced birth?

    whoever came out with this must have been kicked in the head to be trying to use this for the pro birth stance.

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    • Replies: @jtgw
    What makes you think that abortion, rather than contraception, is society's principal means of birth control? Nobody is saying you should have an unlimited number of children and force taxpayers to support them; we're saying that once the child is conceived, aborting it is murder, just as exposing it on the hillside after birth is murder.
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  • @Astuteobservor II
    will the pro-birthers pay for everything the baby and mother needs after force birth? :P stop making me subsidize your choice. which is a 180k per birth :)

    retards.

    Traditionally churches were quite willing to care for unwanted children. Just leave it on the porch.

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  • will the pro-birthers pay for everything the baby and mother needs after force birth? :P stop making me subsidize your choice. which is a 180k per birth :)

    retards.

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    • Replies: @jtgw
    Traditionally churches were quite willing to care for unwanted children. Just leave it on the porch.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Mr. Paul–I salute you!! I’m afraid that I haven’t read your writings to any extent; however, I now find that I’m in complete agreement with you concerning the issues you addressed above!

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  • Its not the right time for this. If Trump gets bogged down on social issues he will never get the big centerpieces done.

    Unless we get control of our demographic future, abortion is just a footnote.

    Patience.

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  • @Boris N
    Is the current American prison system capable of taking in several hundred thousand women per year?

    If we let out all those convicted of possessing or trading drugs, then sure.

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  • Is the current American prison system capable of taking in several hundred thousand women per year?

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    • Replies: @jtgw
    If we let out all those convicted of possessing or trading drugs, then sure.
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  • @Steel T Post
    More blacks, less crime doesn't sound very convincing, but each to his own.

    Did you read Steve’s article?

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  • @jtgw
    Thanks.

    You might be interested to know that Steve Sailer previously addressed, and refuted, the thesis that more abortion leads to less crime.

    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/pre-emptive-executions/

    More blacks, less crime doesn’t sound very convincing, but each to his own.

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    • Replies: @jtgw
    Did you read Steve's article?
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  • @FKA Max


    ''50. The conservatives are fools: They whine about the decay of traditional values, yet they enthusiastically support technological progress and economic growth. Apparently it never occurs to them that you can’t make rapid, drastic changes in the technology and the economy of a society without causing rapid changes in all other aspects of the society as well, and that such rapid changes inevitably break down traditional values.'' - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/unabomber/manifesto.text.htm

    A similar foolishness Republicans/Conservatives peddle/believe, is around abortion and contraception. Populist Republicans/Trumpists/The Catholic Bannon-Milo Crew want to put a stop to immigration, because they, rightly, say, that Democrats use immigration to import more Democrat voters into the country; but then they turn around and oppose Planned Parenthood and want to ban abortion, etc., when high birth rates among African-Americans and Latino-Americans, who overwhelmingly vote Democrat, has the exact same effect; an increase in the number of Democrat voters. Their policy is probably even worse and more dysgenic, because lower IQ persons usually have more children on average, if they are not provided or cannot afford contraceptives.

    Return on Investment: A Fuller Assessment
    of the Benefits and Cost Savings of the US
    Publicly Funded Family Planning Program

    ''This investment resulted in net government savings of $13.6 billion
    in 2010, or $7.09 for every public dollar spent.
    ''
     
    - https://www.guttmacher.org/sites/default/files/pdfs/pubs/journals/MQ-Frost_1468-0009.12080.pdf

    Fools, indeed.
     
    - http://voxday.blogspot.com/2017/01/the-right-alternative.html?commentPage=2#c7316530469240097151


    The Philippine president, Rodrigo Duterte, signed an executive order this month calling for the full and immediate enforcement of a 2012 law that would give six million women like Ms. Torreras free government-distributed contraception and reproductive health services.

    Mr. Duterte portrayed the order as an antipoverty measure, with an official calling it “pro-life, pro-women, pro-children and pro-economic development.”

    But the order was also Mr. Duterte’s latest jab at the Roman Catholic Church, which wields significant power in the Philippines and has fought for years to keep the law from taking effect.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/isteve/refugees-demand-to-be-ruled-by-literally-hitler/#comment-1744912

    Margaret Sanger Never Said She Wanted to “Exterminate Blacks”

    Published on Feb 11, 2017

    Hear about the birth control movement from an Alt-Right perspective.

    Lana talks about Margaret Sanger and the true origins of Planned Parenthood, breaking apart the lie that Sanger was a racist, “like the Nazis.” If anything, Margaret Sanger was anti-White.

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  • ”50. The conservatives are fools: They whine about the decay of traditional values, yet they enthusiastically support technological progress and economic growth. Apparently it never occurs to them that you can’t make rapid, drastic changes in the technology and the economy of a society without causing rapid changes in all other aspects of the society as well, and that such rapid changes inevitably break down traditional values.” – http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/unabomber/manifesto.text.htm

    A similar foolishness Republicans/Conservatives peddle/believe, is around abortion and contraception. Populist Republicans/Trumpists/The Catholic Bannon-Milo Crew want to put a stop to immigration, because they, rightly, say, that Democrats use immigration to import more Democrat voters into the country; but then they turn around and oppose Planned Parenthood and want to ban abortion, etc., when high birth rates among African-Americans and Latino-Americans, who overwhelmingly vote Democrat, has the exact same effect; an increase in the number of Democrat voters. Their policy is probably even worse and more dysgenic, because lower IQ persons usually have more children on average, if they are not provided or cannot afford contraceptives.

    Return on Investment: A Fuller Assessment
    of the Benefits and Cost Savings of the US
    Publicly Funded Family Planning Program

    This investment resulted in net government savings of $13.6 billion
    in 2010, or $7.09 for every public dollar spent.

    https://www.guttmacher.org/sites/default/files/pdfs/pubs/journals/MQ-Frost_1468-0009.12080.pdf

    Fools, indeed.

    http://voxday.blogspot.com/2017/01/the-right-alternative.html?commentPage=2#c7316530469240097151

    The Philippine president, Rodrigo Duterte, signed an executive order this month calling for the full and immediate enforcement of a 2012 law that would give six million women like Ms. Torreras free government-distributed contraception and reproductive health services.

    Mr. Duterte portrayed the order as an antipoverty measure, with an official calling it “pro-life, pro-women, pro-children and pro-economic development.”

    But the order was also Mr. Duterte’s latest jab at the Roman Catholic Church, which wields significant power in the Philippines and has fought for years to keep the law from taking effect.

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/refugees-demand-to-be-ruled-by-literally-hitler/#comment-1744912

    Read More
    • Replies: @FKA Max
    Margaret Sanger Never Said She Wanted to “Exterminate Blacks”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jswvL36w2-M

    Published on Feb 11, 2017

    Hear about the birth control movement from an Alt-Right perspective.

    Lana talks about Margaret Sanger and the true origins of Planned Parenthood, breaking apart the lie that Sanger was a racist, “like the Nazis.” If anything, Margaret Sanger was anti-White.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Steel T Post
    My apologies, jtgw, Rothbard's first quote is here:
    archive.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/ir/Ch75.html

    Thanks.

    You might be interested to know that Steve Sailer previously addressed, and refuted, the thesis that more abortion leads to less crime.

    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/pre-emptive-executions/

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    • Replies: @Steel T Post
    More blacks, less crime doesn't sound very convincing, but each to his own.
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  • @jtgw
    What is the source of your first quote? It's not in the text of the link you provided.

    Your problem could also be addressed by making it legal to murder black people. Are you prepared to do what it takes?

    My apologies, jtgw, Rothbard’s first quote is here:
    archive.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/ir/Ch75.html

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    • Replies: @jtgw
    Thanks.

    You might be interested to know that Steve Sailer previously addressed, and refuted, the thesis that more abortion leads to less crime.

    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/pre-emptive-executions/
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  • @Tony
    Yo Paulie, most people don't care about this stuff, People have better things to worry about than if some lowlife is having an abortion. In fact they should be encouraged to have it.

    Yo Paulie, most people don’t care about this stuff, People have better things to worry about than if some lowlife is having an abortion. In fact they should be encouraged to have it.

    But the people who care, care a whole lot. Care so much they were willing to vote and support criminals like GWB and the neocon mob, twice, and be proud of their “morals”.

    Ron Paul is rare exception, the most “moral” people of the world, the American “religious right” can be blamed for most what is wrong in the world. Your morals brought us GWB and the Iraq war. Your morals can go to hell.

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  • Yo Paulie, most people don’t care about this stuff, People have better things to worry about than if some lowlife is having an abortion. In fact they should be encouraged to have it.

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    • Replies: @Darin

    Yo Paulie, most people don’t care about this stuff, People have better things to worry about than if some lowlife is having an abortion. In fact they should be encouraged to have it.
     
    But the people who care, care a whole lot. Care so much they were willing to vote and support criminals like GWB and the neocon mob, twice, and be proud of their "morals".

    Ron Paul is rare exception, the most "moral" people of the world, the American "religious right" can be blamed for most what is wrong in the world. Your morals brought us GWB and the Iraq war. Your morals can go to hell.
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  • @Steel T Post
    Blacks make up 25% of the population of New York City, yet if NYC were all white, then the murder rate would drop by 91 percent, the robbery rate by 81 percent, and the shootings rate by 97 percent. (The Color of Crime, 2016 ed.) And in NYC, black women had 30% more abortions than live births, a rate 500% higher than whites.

    Are you ready to deal with the unintended consequences--such as lower property values and more assaults--of having more black lives matter? If so, how?


    In short; racialist science is properly not an act of aggression or a cover for oppression of one group over another, but, on the contrary, an operation in defense of private property against assaults by aggressors.
    -Murray Rothbard
    archive.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/ir/Ch5.html

    Abortion should be looked upon, not as 'murder' of a living person, but as the expulsion of an unwanted invader from the mother's body.
    -Murray Rothbard
    The Ethics of Liberty, p. 98
     

    What is the source of your first quote? It’s not in the text of the link you provided.

    Your problem could also be addressed by making it legal to murder black people. Are you prepared to do what it takes?

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    • Replies: @Steel T Post
    My apologies, jtgw, Rothbard's first quote is here:
    archive.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/ir/Ch75.html
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  • Blacks make up 25% of the population of New York City, yet if NYC were all white, then the murder rate would drop by 91 percent, the robbery rate by 81 percent, and the shootings rate by 97 percent. (The Color of Crime, 2016 ed.) And in NYC, black women had 30% more abortions than live births, a rate 500% higher than whites.

    Are you ready to deal with the unintended consequences–such as lower property values and more assaults–of having more black lives matter? If so, how?

    In short; racialist science is properly not an act of aggression or a cover for oppression of one group over another, but, on the contrary, an operation in defense of private property against assaults by aggressors.
    -Murray Rothbard
    archive.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/ir/Ch5.html

    Abortion should be looked upon, not as ‘murder’ of a living person, but as the expulsion of an unwanted invader from the mother’s body.
    -Murray Rothbard
    The Ethics of Liberty, p. 98

    Read More
    • Replies: @jtgw
    What is the source of your first quote? It's not in the text of the link you provided.

    Your problem could also be addressed by making it legal to murder black people. Are you prepared to do what it takes?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @WorkingClass
    Are you also opposed to forcing Americans to subsidize unnecessary wars including the war on drugs? If so I am with you 100%

    Yes, Ron has worked to end federal drug prohibition for decades.

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  • I suspect getting the taxpayer out of the abortion business will be much easier than getting him
    out of the War and Drug business.

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  • @WorkingClass
    Are you also opposed to forcing Americans to subsidize unnecessary wars including the war on drugs? If so I am with you 100%

    Congress should follow this action by passing legislation allowing antiwar taxpayers to opt out of funding the military-industrial complex as well.

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  • Are you also opposed to forcing Americans to subsidize unnecessary wars including the war on drugs? If so I am with you 100%

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    • Replies: @jtgw

    Congress should follow this action by passing legislation allowing antiwar taxpayers to opt out of funding the military-industrial complex as well.

     

    , @RadicalCenter
    Yes, Ron has worked to end federal drug prohibition for decades.
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  • I had planned to write on the struggle in the US congress in which the Israel Lobby seeks to override the president’s veto. This is likely to cause a new war in the Middle East, send out a new wave of refugees, and destroy the cradle of our faith and civilization. However, the most dangerous...
  • […] of his superb pieces is this one, which speaks one of the many taboo not allowed to be expressed publicly in our age of […]

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  • In one week during January 1973, President Richard M. Nixon was inaugurated to his second term, former President Lyndon B. Johnson died, the United States and North Vietnam entered into the Paris Peace Accords, and the Supreme Court legalized abortion. Only the last of these events continues to affect and haunt the moral and constitutional...
  • @James Madison
    Heres a word you need to learn the definition of; Posterity, or a future, unborn citizen. BTW you can find it in the Preamble to the Constitution. Where it grants all the rights enumerated in the Constitution to out Posterity!

    Your arguments are semantics.

    Webster’s “simple definition of semantics”:

    : the study of the meanings of words and phrases in language

    : the meanings of words and phrases in a particular context

    I am not a student of semantics. I would be interested to hear from someone proficient in semantics regarding the headline Killing Babies in the context of the piece that follows.

    Webster again. This time on sophistry:

    1: subtly deceptive reasoning or argumentation

    The headline fails the subtlety test perhaps but I would say definitely misleading.

    False analogy is a common logical fallacy. This is probably a better term to describe my problem with this headline than sophistry or semantics. What do you think?

    We probably can at least agree that it is an appeal to emotion.

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  • @WorkingClass
    ba·by
    ˈbābē/
    noun
    noun: baby; plural noun: babies

    1.
    a very young child, especially one newly or recently born.
    "his wife's just had a baby"
    synonyms: infant, newborn, child, tot, little one; More

    fe·tus
    ˈfēdəs/
    noun
    noun: fetus; plural noun: fetuses; noun: foetus; plural noun: foetuses

    an unborn offspring of a mammal, in particular an unborn human baby more than eight weeks after conception.
    synonyms: embryo, unborn baby/child
    "an ultrasonic photo of the fetus"

    Words have meaning.

    If a fetus is a person then a woman who intentionally terminates a pregnancy is guilty of first degree murder.

    The Roberts Court has determined that corporations are people. They might well also decide that a fetus is a person. That would make some people happy but would not make it so.

    Heres a word you need to learn the definition of; Posterity, or a future, unborn citizen. BTW you can find it in the Preamble to the Constitution. Where it grants all the rights enumerated in the Constitution to out Posterity!

    Your arguments are semantics.

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    • Replies: @WorkingClass
    Webster's "simple definition of semantics":

    : the study of the meanings of words and phrases in language

    : the meanings of words and phrases in a particular context

    I am not a student of semantics. I would be interested to hear from someone proficient in semantics regarding the headline Killing Babies in the context of the piece that follows.

    Webster again. This time on sophistry:

    1: subtly deceptive reasoning or argumentation

    The headline fails the subtlety test perhaps but I would say definitely misleading.

    False analogy is a common logical fallacy. This is probably a better term to describe my problem with this headline than sophistry or semantics. What do you think?

    We probably can at least agree that it is an appeal to emotion.
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  • Incredibly in the same year that the UK legalized abortion apparitions of Mary mother of Jesus where seen in the Egyptian town of Zeitoun near Cairo. It is said over a million people witnessed these apparitions.

    One of a series of apparitions in Egypt they appeared in towns associated with the Holy Families flight from Israel escaping Herod’s Slaughter of the Innocents at Bethlehem.

    Many apparitions of Mary appeared at times when great evil was appearing, Fatima for instance coincided with the rise of the Soviets. It is clear that Mary appeared because of the institution of abortion, and the incredible danger it represents.

    Their is no doubt in my mind that it has destroyed the morality of many individuals and decimated family life. As you wrote the main impetus for it was the sexual revolution and the demand as always of powerful men and women to pursue their own pleasures regardless of the wider harm caused. There is no doubt it is evil and is the result of creeping moral decline in those who have rejected God and made an idol of their own sexual desire.

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  • @Priss Factor
    Free abortion for Negroes please.

    Negro abortions are why there’s still a United States today. There would probably be hundreds of millions more of them if not for Roe v. Wade.

    Napolitano (and Buchanan and Mike Scheuer– three writers I admire) are Catholic fetishists concerned with keeping their delusion together that their God is in charge of everyone and their destiny.

    Abortion is ugly. I would not want to perform one or be responsible for someone needing one. Like the Executioner of old– who served an important social function but was not respected– abortion has a lot of social utility. Any woman who aborts her fetuses because she can’t plan ahead enough to stop filling herself up with bastards– or just has them out of rank convenience, is doing society a favor every time she terminates that pregnancy.

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  • In July 2013, a Poll results released last month by the PEW Research, claim nine in ten Jewish participants say abortion should be legal in all or most cases.

    A 2012 ‘Survey of Jewish Values’, conducted by the Public Religious Research Institute, said that 93% of American Jews support legalized abortion in some fashion. According to the survey, among Jewish Democrats support was 95%, but 77% Republican Jews also favored legalized abortion in all or most cases, far exceeding the rate of non-Jewish studied.

    According to Health Statistics, an average of six million abortions are carried out each year around the world. Russia tops in abortions performed, followed by United States, India, Japan, France, Italy, Germany, Bulgaria, Cuba and Hungary.

    The Jewish elites have been the driving force in legalizing abortion industry in most of western nations. The abortion industry in the West is mostly controlled by the so-called “liberal Jews”. Some Jews, like Rebecca Gomperts, a Dutch gynecologist, established ‘Women on Water’ organization to provide abortion services at Sea for the nations which prohibit abortion clinics. Last year, Morrocan authorities banned organization’s ship to anchor at its port.

    Powerful pro-Israel Jewish organization, such as, ADL, AJC, RACRJ, CJW, JAC, ISA, etc. are pro-abortionists. In 2009, some of them campaigned against the Stupak Amendment which called for the elimination of insurance coverage for abortion. In 2008, ADL urged both parties to adopt a pro-choice stand in their presidential platforms.

    A brief abortion statistic in United States.

    1. 52% of U.S. women obtaining abortions are younger than 25: Women aged 20–24 obtain 33% of all abortions, and teenagers obtain 19%.

    2. Black women are more than three times as likely as white women to have an abortion, and Hispanic women are two-and-a-half times as likely.

    3. 43% of women obtaining abortions identify themselves as Protestant, and 27% identify themselves as Catholic.

    4. Two-thirds of all abortions are among never-married women.

    5. More than 60% of abortions are among women who have had one or more children.

    6. On average, women give at least three reasons for choosing abortion: three-fourths say that having a baby would interfere with work, school, or other responsibilities; about two-thirds say they cannot afford a child; and half say they do not want to be a single parent or are having problems with their husband or partner.

    7. About 13,000 women have abortions each year following rape or incest.

    http://rehmat1.com/2013/08/01/poll-90-of-jews-favor-abortion/

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  • Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says:

    Free abortion for Negroes please.

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    • Replies: @hbm
    Negro abortions are why there's still a United States today. There would probably be hundreds of millions more of them if not for Roe v. Wade.

    Napolitano (and Buchanan and Mike Scheuer-- three writers I admire) are Catholic fetishists concerned with keeping their delusion together that their God is in charge of everyone and their destiny.

    Abortion is ugly. I would not want to perform one or be responsible for someone needing one. Like the Executioner of old-- who served an important social function but was not respected-- abortion has a lot of social utility. Any woman who aborts her fetuses because she can't plan ahead enough to stop filling herself up with bastards-- or just has them out of rank convenience, is doing society a favor every time she terminates that pregnancy.

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  • Well said, Judge. It needed saying.

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  • Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Abortions are a good thing. How would you feel if your daughter or wife was raped and got pregnant? You’d want them to give birth to kid who’s a rapespawn? Imagine how that would make them feel each time they saw that child, the memories of the act would never be out of their mind.

    What if a woman is pregnant, first child, straight out of school and recently married. She goes to the doctor and with a simple test finds out the child will be born and have a lower then 5% chance to survive because of some terrible physical deformity. Should she go through with the whole pregnancy knowing the child will not survive? Force herself and her family to watch her stomach grow and have to tell everyone ” oh, little Susie lacks two vertebrae in her neck so her windpipe won’t work. We are just going full term because it’s the right thing to do.”

    Saying abortions are wrong is just an emotional response to a problem that should be viewed logically. Plain and simple. Look at the person getting the abortion, the reason they are getting it, and will it have a meaningful impact on the woman’s life (are they still a minor? Are they single? Are they a victim in a rape? Are they a dumb, uneducated piece of garbage that shouldn’t reproduce?) I’m not saying you should be able to abort viable persons that are further along then 3 months, but before then, if the mother is at risk mentally or physically, it should be her choice. No one else’s. And as a society, we should enable that.

    Plus, as thirdeye said, we really don’t need another million unwanted kids added to our already struggling society. Another million kids who’s parents get on walfare, grow up and fail at school because they are from poor neighborhoods. Another million kids who grow up to be another million inmates……

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  • @Reg Cæsar

    Napolitano wants American society to absorb over a million unwanted children a year.
     
    If memory serves me right, people before 1973 were able to take control of their actions so those "unwanted children" weren't conceived in the first place.

    I also remember the claims that legal abortion would make bastardy obsolete. How'd that one pan out?

    If memory serves me right, people before 1973 were able to take control of their actions so those “unwanted children” weren’t conceived in the first place.

    Obviously, your memory does not serve you right. Please note the quote from Daniel Patrick Moynihan above.

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  • @Thirdeye

    Their failure to attempt to define the fetus in the womb as a person seriously, and the Supreme Court’s unprecedented dance around the requirement of due process and the prohibition of slavery has resulted in 44 million abortions in 43 years.
     
    No, it's the demand for abortion that has resulted in that astounding number. And that's why it's not going to go away in regardless of Napolitano's pseudoscientific and pseudomoral claptrap.

    Napolitano wants American society to absorb over a million unwanted children a year. That's what this society needs!

    Napolitano wants American society to absorb over a million unwanted children a year.

    If memory serves me right, people before 1973 were able to take control of their actions so those “unwanted children” weren’t conceived in the first place.

    I also remember the claims that legal abortion would make bastardy obsolete. How’d that one pan out?

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    • Replies: @Thirdeye

    If memory serves me right, people before 1973 were able to take control of their actions so those “unwanted children” weren’t conceived in the first place.
     
    Obviously, your memory does not serve you right. Please note the quote from Daniel Patrick Moynihan above.
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  • It violates the natural law. It wasn’t even condoned in the state of nature, before governments existed.

    Infanticide is not at all unusual in hunter gatherer and subsistence agricultural societies. Perhaps for most of human history if a man or woman killed their own child the state took little interest in the matter.

    The evidence suggests that the state took interest in murder in order to end vendetta killings – which are the norm in clan/tribe based societies. If one reads the Bible, in the days before the commandments the Jews designated sanctuary cities where a murderer could go to escape the vendetta – this is appears to be an early, and not very practical, attempt to deal with the matter.

    Prohibitions against abortion were, and are, an expansion of the state, not a return to nature.

    Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts. – D. P. Moynihan

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    • Agree: Thirdeye
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  • European and North American demographic implosion forms a grave threat to the continued existence of Western Civilization, and legalized abortion is a prime cause of that implosion. More North American babies might have prevented and perhaps can still help to dissolve Western leaders’ misbegotten cravenness for Open Borders Perpetual Mass Third World Imminvasion and its inexorable, if continued, demographic displacement, dispossession and immiseration of native Westerners.

    When a civilization ceases to care for its own – including and especially its own unborn – its people commit civilizational suicide.

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  • @Anonymous
    Nice. So, if you don't like someone's statements they become "pseudo-scientific" and "pseudo-moral", just as you make the child in the womb "pseudo-human".

    To paraphrase the Ghost of Christmas Present, I wonder where in the eyes of Heaven you fall on the scale of Humanity compared to those you deem pseudo-human?

    Nice inversion. I don’t like judgments based on pseudoscientific and paseudomoral claptrap, not the other way around. Logic is a good thing. You should try to understand it sometime.

    So there’s an imaginary place called “Heaven” that has eyes. I am so happy to be informed of that.

    Is your handle a mis-spelling of the Dickens character’s name or a French name?

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  • ba·by
    ˈbābē/
    noun
    noun: baby; plural noun: babies

    1.
    a very young child, especially one newly or recently born.
    “his wife’s just had a baby”
    synonyms: infant, newborn, child, tot, little one; More

    fe·tus
    ˈfēdəs/
    noun
    noun: fetus; plural noun: fetuses; noun: foetus; plural noun: foetuses

    an unborn offspring of a mammal, in particular an unborn human baby more than eight weeks after conception.
    synonyms: embryo, unborn baby/child
    “an ultrasonic photo of the fetus”

    Words have meaning.

    If a fetus is a person then a woman who intentionally terminates a pregnancy is guilty of first degree murder.

    The Roberts Court has determined that corporations are people. They might well also decide that a fetus is a person. That would make some people happy but would not make it so.

    Read More
    • Replies: @James Madison
    Heres a word you need to learn the definition of; Posterity, or a future, unborn citizen. BTW you can find it in the Preamble to the Constitution. Where it grants all the rights enumerated in the Constitution to out Posterity!

    Your arguments are semantics.
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  • Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Thirdeye

    Their failure to attempt to define the fetus in the womb as a person seriously, and the Supreme Court’s unprecedented dance around the requirement of due process and the prohibition of slavery has resulted in 44 million abortions in 43 years.
     
    No, it's the demand for abortion that has resulted in that astounding number. And that's why it's not going to go away in regardless of Napolitano's pseudoscientific and pseudomoral claptrap.

    Napolitano wants American society to absorb over a million unwanted children a year. That's what this society needs!

    Nice. So, if you don’t like someone’s statements they become “pseudo-scientific” and “pseudo-moral”, just as you make the child in the womb “pseudo-human”.

    To paraphrase the Ghost of Christmas Present, I wonder where in the eyes of Heaven you fall on the scale of Humanity compared to those you deem pseudo-human?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Thirdeye
    Nice inversion. I don't like judgments based on pseudoscientific and paseudomoral claptrap, not the other way around. Logic is a good thing. You should try to understand it sometime.

    So there's an imaginary place called "Heaven" that has eyes. I am so happy to be informed of that.

    Is your handle a mis-spelling of the Dickens character's name or a French name?

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Their failure to attempt to define the fetus in the womb as a person seriously, and the Supreme Court’s unprecedented dance around the requirement of due process and the prohibition of slavery has resulted in 44 million abortions in 43 years.

    No, it’s the demand for abortion that has resulted in that astounding number. And that’s why it’s not going to go away in regardless of Napolitano’s pseudoscientific and pseudomoral claptrap.

    Napolitano wants American society to absorb over a million unwanted children a year. That’s what this society needs!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Nice. So, if you don't like someone's statements they become "pseudo-scientific" and "pseudo-moral", just as you make the child in the womb "pseudo-human".

    To paraphrase the Ghost of Christmas Present, I wonder where in the eyes of Heaven you fall on the scale of Humanity compared to those you deem pseudo-human?
    , @Reg Cæsar

    Napolitano wants American society to absorb over a million unwanted children a year.
     
    If memory serves me right, people before 1973 were able to take control of their actions so those "unwanted children" weren't conceived in the first place.

    I also remember the claims that legal abortion would make bastardy obsolete. How'd that one pan out?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Your math is wrong, it’s not an abortion a minute, it’s two abortions a minute. A day has 24×60=1440 minutes, a year has 365×1440=515,600 minutes, and about 44 million abortions in 43 years is about 1,023,000 per year.

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  • Post updated, 6/10/14. See below! As we saw previously (see My Most Read Posts), my post Maps of the American Nations is the single most popular post so far here on my blog. Americans all over are supremely interested in both their origins and the reasons for the cultural quirks of the different American regions....
  • […] and, of course, jayman has been all over american nations issues for the past couple of years (see here and here, for […]

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  • I had planned to write on the struggle in the US congress in which the Israel Lobby seeks to override the president’s veto. This is likely to cause a new war in the Middle East, send out a new wave of refugees, and destroy the cradle of our faith and civilization. However, the most dangerous...
  • @J Yan
    Bravo for striking a blow for genuine morality, Mr. Shamir. Though, it is possible to hold such views about human limits without believing in God.

    Arguably, one can (and should) disbelieve what s/he judges to be any false understanding of that which is signified by the term G_D and its cognates.

    Integrity requires one be true to what one knows as true.

    But unbelieving implies and even presupposes an enduring belief.

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  • “Accepting death as it comes” as in ‘not doing anything to treat old people because they are a hindrance on our Christian, advanced and humanistic society’ ?

    “We spend too much effort on preserving life” – that’s a clear pro-euthanasia stance.

    “Preserving and extending the existence of those unable to live without help (be it elderly or children or terminally ill) means less resources for everybody else.” – that’s also very much pro-euthanasia. Leaving aside the fact that there is a total lack of mercy in it, be it Christian or humanistic, it’s also highly debatable. What ‘resources’ do these people take from the rest of the society to make them ‘less for everybody else’ ?
    Since the rest of the society is in good health, it doesn’t need the specific medical resources these ill people use. The food, water, electricity, etc they use – would have been used anyway if they had been healthy.

    Extremely rich and powerful people using their power to obtain what they want has nothing to do with really ill people who actually need medical care, and moreover who some of them have been made sick by the excesses of a ruthless society: pollution, chemicals, avoidable accidents, etc.

    This whole essay mixes a lot of things which have nothing to do with one another into a rather confused and confusing stew. The only thing missing is compassion, whether Christian or otherwise

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  • @FLOR solitaria
    I wonder how Mr Shamir can reconcile this pro-euthanasia piece with his conversion to Eastern Orthodox Christianity.

    I am not pro-euthanasia at all; I am for accepting death as it comes.

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  • @J Yan
    Bravo for striking a blow for genuine morality, Mr. Shamir. Though, it is possible to hold such views about human limits without believing in God.

    I wonder how Mr Shamir can reconcile this pro-euthanasia piece with his conversion to Eastern Orthodox Christianity.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Israel Shamir
    I am not pro-euthanasia at all; I am for accepting death as it comes.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Israel Shamir
    What a great family you have, with David Rockefeller for a brother, and a sister that surrogates... Such guys can't believe in Christ, can you? And yes, I would tax the rich to the hilt. The best time for European museums and art was well before rise of the untaxed rich who prefer art of Damien Hirst. As for Sudan and Philippines, I am not aware that the Christian missionaries slaughtered the Philippines and bombed Sudan.

    rich who prefer art of Damien Hirst

    Transitivity of tastes, especially for the Reaper, therefore, would suggest that you are a multi-millionaire. So an Orthodox-Christian- Communist-millionaire. There! we have a new category to add to the PC behaviour list.

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  • @5371
    You've doubled down on bullshit and gone on your way rejoicing. My final word to you will be the same as to your less grandiloquent colleague. Concrete predictions, with firm dates, or don't waste your breath.

    Well my final word to you would be: Why don’t you predict the day of your own exit from this cerulean planet. Can you?

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  • @Sam Shama

    One might say the same, were he placed in the middle of Versailles, the Parthenon, Uruk or Göbekli Tepe. So what?
     
    Well the whizzing sound over your head was not a drone. 'So what' is that progression of science is not felt to be non-linear when one is living through it day to day. Had you slept like Rip Van Winkle in 1980 and woken up in 2015, you would have been astonished by the iPhone, smart homes, GPS, laptop computers that are more powerful than the supercomputers in 1980, genomics, nanotechnology, 3-D printing, solar power, Tesla and so much more.

    If you have not read it, try (1) "Superintelligence" - Nick Bostrom and (2) "Radical Abundance" - Eric Drexler (3) "Harvesting the Biosphere" - Vaclav Smil and of course the many books of Ray Kurzweil.

    The period of most rapid increase ended more than 60 years ago. Much the greatest part of the extension we owe to improvements in hygiene and public health, not to medical treatment, and nothing whatsoever to genome sequencing.
     
    Of course hygiene and public health had much to do with it. That was again the invention of modern plumbing, very much driven by the medical understanding of spread of infectious diseases. Do you deny the role of vaccines and anti-biotics? You speak of genome sequencing as if that is the only effort. I assure you it is not. There is too much to read. Get a basic idea of what is being done to clean inter and intra-cellular "junk" and "junk-code" to radically extend cell and mitochondrial life-span. As I said if you wake up in 10 years, you will again be very shocked. Nano-technology is not too far from detecting cancer cells at inception and basically zapping them!

    When the drunk gets to the streetlight, his perception of things on the ground progresses non-linearly. That doesn’t mean his keys are there.
     
    This is a vacuous analogy, if one at all. Genomics for example is very specific, directed, and based on large scale statistical models, that are anything close to the antics of a drunk.

    I don’t think he meant you have to believe your every fantasy will come true, and then it certainly will. But maybe you disagree
     
    Of course I disagree. Human imagination is the key to discovery. Don't you realise that?!! It happens every day. Read Elon Musk's journey, his "fantasies" that so many dismissed. Yet what have we today? You should believe that man, and the Hyperloop will be there before you wake up.
    Ramanujan used to dream and fantasise about mathematical sequences and results, get up in the morning and write them down , as Hardy would marvel at them, asking him how he derived them, to which Ramanujan would say "I dreamed of them".

    You’ve doubled down on bullshit and gone on your way rejoicing. My final word to you will be the same as to your less grandiloquent colleague. Concrete predictions, with firm dates, or don’t waste your breath.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    Well my final word to you would be: Why don't you predict the day of your own exit from this cerulean planet. Can you?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @5371
    [A Neanderthal past the ripe age of 36 years, having survived injury , were he to be placed in midst of Manhattan, would very likely die of shock]

    One might say the same, were he placed in the middle of Versailles, the Parthenon, Uruk or Göbekli Tepe. So what?

    [We have effectively increased that lifespan by 250%, most of the advancement coming in the last 100 years]

    The period of most rapid increase ended more than 60 years ago. Much the greatest part of the extension we owe to improvements in hygiene and public health, not to medical treatment, and nothing whatsoever to genome sequencing.

    [And we have just begun (but progressing non-linearly) in our understanding of the code of life.]

    When the drunk gets to the streetlight, his perception of things on the ground progresses non-linearly. That doesn't mean his keys are there.

    [You really have to be a bit imaginative. Just like Einstein prescribed.]

    I don't think he meant you have to believe your every fantasy will come true, and then it certainly will. But maybe you disagree.

    One might say the same, were he placed in the middle of Versailles, the Parthenon, Uruk or Göbekli Tepe. So what?

    Well the whizzing sound over your head was not a drone. ‘So what’ is that progression of science is not felt to be non-linear when one is living through it day to day. Had you slept like Rip Van Winkle in 1980 and woken up in 2015, you would have been astonished by the iPhone, smart homes, GPS, laptop computers that are more powerful than the supercomputers in 1980, genomics, nanotechnology, 3-D printing, solar power, Tesla and so much more.

    If you have not read it, try (1) “Superintelligence” – Nick Bostrom and (2) “Radical Abundance” – Eric Drexler (3) “Harvesting the Biosphere” – Vaclav Smil and of course the many books of Ray Kurzweil.

    The period of most rapid increase ended more than 60 years ago. Much the greatest part of the extension we owe to improvements in hygiene and public health, not to medical treatment, and nothing whatsoever to genome sequencing.

    Of course hygiene and public health had much to do with it. That was again the invention of modern plumbing, very much driven by the medical understanding of spread of infectious diseases. Do you deny the role of vaccines and anti-biotics? You speak of genome sequencing as if that is the only effort. I assure you it is not. There is too much to read. Get a basic idea of what is being done to clean inter and intra-cellular “junk” and “junk-code” to radically extend cell and mitochondrial life-span. As I said if you wake up in 10 years, you will again be very shocked. Nano-technology is not too far from detecting cancer cells at inception and basically zapping them!

    When the drunk gets to the streetlight, his perception of things on the ground progresses non-linearly. That doesn’t mean his keys are there.

    This is a vacuous analogy, if one at all. Genomics for example is very specific, directed, and based on large scale statistical models, that are anything close to the antics of a drunk.

    I don’t think he meant you have to believe your every fantasy will come true, and then it certainly will. But maybe you disagree

    Of course I disagree. Human imagination is the key to discovery. Don’t you realise that?!! It happens every day. Read Elon Musk’s journey, his “fantasies” that so many dismissed. Yet what have we today? You should believe that man, and the Hyperloop will be there before you wake up.
    Ramanujan used to dream and fantasise about mathematical sequences and results, get up in the morning and write them down , as Hardy would marvel at them, asking him how he derived them, to which Ramanujan would say “I dreamed of them”.

    Read More
    • Replies: @5371
    You've doubled down on bullshit and gone on your way rejoicing. My final word to you will be the same as to your less grandiloquent colleague. Concrete predictions, with firm dates, or don't waste your breath.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Romanus
    " A Neanderthal past the ripe age of 36 years, having survived injury , were he to be placed in midst of Manhattan, would very likely die of shock..."

    Hardly, since most Caucasians (esp. some semitic groups) and Asians carry varying degrees of neanderthal DNA themselves (depending on the level of historical interbreeding).

    http://michaelbradley.info/

    I take it that suggestive rhetorical devices are not your cup of tea. [nor of others on this thread for that matter, who eagerly await, a swift embrace of the Grim Reaper]

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  • @annamaria
    Thank you for posting the article on new imaging devices.

    My pleasure annamarina. Its really fascinating and inspiring, the progress in medical technology.

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  • @Israel Shamir

    “maspik, tilkhi lamut!
     
    Rather, muti kvar!

    I don’t reckon you truly believe that. No one, certainly not he that claims a deep empathy for his fellow creatures, could possibly feel that way about their own, lucid, loving, flesh and blood.

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  • @Sam Shama
    Not really. My point was rather simple. Observe the trends. A Neanderthal past the ripe age of 36 years, having survived injury , were he to be placed in midst of Manhattan, would very likely die of shock.

    We have effectively increased that lifespan by 250%, most of the advancement coming in the last 100 years. And we have just begun (but progressing non-linearly) in our understanding of the code of life. Combined with technology of the following type:

    http://www.wired.com/2014/11/butterfly-network/

    You really have to be a bit imaginative. Just like Einstein prescribed.

    Thank you for posting the article on new imaging devices.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    My pleasure annamarina. Its really fascinating and inspiring, the progress in medical technology.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Sam Shama

    Think of Chronos and Saturn who were dealt with by their children because they would never die!
     
    That is not the proposition. Its extension and a radically better life experience, without the suffering at the end. What's to argue against, and who said that technology cannot accommodate a larger but stable population? Isn't that what we have seen? (ve gam ken, ata rotze she'ani agid le savta sheli "maspik, tilkhi lamut!"?)

    “maspik, tilkhi lamut!

    Rather, muti kvar!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    I don't reckon you truly believe that. No one, certainly not he that claims a deep empathy for his fellow creatures, could possibly feel that way about their own, lucid, loving, flesh and blood.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Sam Shama
    Not really. My point was rather simple. Observe the trends. A Neanderthal past the ripe age of 36 years, having survived injury , were he to be placed in midst of Manhattan, would very likely die of shock.

    We have effectively increased that lifespan by 250%, most of the advancement coming in the last 100 years. And we have just begun (but progressing non-linearly) in our understanding of the code of life. Combined with technology of the following type:

    http://www.wired.com/2014/11/butterfly-network/

    You really have to be a bit imaginative. Just like Einstein prescribed.

    ” A Neanderthal past the ripe age of 36 years, having survived injury , were he to be placed in midst of Manhattan, would very likely die of shock…”

    Hardly, since most Caucasians (esp. some semitic groups) and Asians carry varying degrees of neanderthal DNA themselves (depending on the level of historical interbreeding).

    http://michaelbradley.info/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    I take it that suggestive rhetorical devices are not your cup of tea. [nor of others on this thread for that matter, who eagerly await, a swift embrace of the Grim Reaper]
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Sam Shama
    Not really. My point was rather simple. Observe the trends. A Neanderthal past the ripe age of 36 years, having survived injury , were he to be placed in midst of Manhattan, would very likely die of shock.

    We have effectively increased that lifespan by 250%, most of the advancement coming in the last 100 years. And we have just begun (but progressing non-linearly) in our understanding of the code of life. Combined with technology of the following type:

    http://www.wired.com/2014/11/butterfly-network/

    You really have to be a bit imaginative. Just like Einstein prescribed.

    [A Neanderthal past the ripe age of 36 years, having survived injury , were he to be placed in midst of Manhattan, would very likely die of shock]

    One might say the same, were he placed in the middle of Versailles, the Parthenon, Uruk or Göbekli Tepe. So what?

    [We have effectively increased that lifespan by 250%, most of the advancement coming in the last 100 years]

    The period of most rapid increase ended more than 60 years ago. Much the greatest part of the extension we owe to improvements in hygiene and public health, not to medical treatment, and nothing whatsoever to genome sequencing.

    [And we have just begun (but progressing non-linearly) in our understanding of the code of life.]

    When the drunk gets to the streetlight, his perception of things on the ground progresses non-linearly. That doesn’t mean his keys are there.

    [You really have to be a bit imaginative. Just like Einstein prescribed.]

    I don’t think he meant you have to believe your every fantasy will come true, and then it certainly will. But maybe you disagree.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sam Shama

    One might say the same, were he placed in the middle of Versailles, the Parthenon, Uruk or Göbekli Tepe. So what?
     
    Well the whizzing sound over your head was not a drone. 'So what' is that progression of science is not felt to be non-linear when one is living through it day to day. Had you slept like Rip Van Winkle in 1980 and woken up in 2015, you would have been astonished by the iPhone, smart homes, GPS, laptop computers that are more powerful than the supercomputers in 1980, genomics, nanotechnology, 3-D printing, solar power, Tesla and so much more.

    If you have not read it, try (1) "Superintelligence" - Nick Bostrom and (2) "Radical Abundance" - Eric Drexler (3) "Harvesting the Biosphere" - Vaclav Smil and of course the many books of Ray Kurzweil.

    The period of most rapid increase ended more than 60 years ago. Much the greatest part of the extension we owe to improvements in hygiene and public health, not to medical treatment, and nothing whatsoever to genome sequencing.
     
    Of course hygiene and public health had much to do with it. That was again the invention of modern plumbing, very much driven by the medical understanding of spread of infectious diseases. Do you deny the role of vaccines and anti-biotics? You speak of genome sequencing as if that is the only effort. I assure you it is not. There is too much to read. Get a basic idea of what is being done to clean inter and intra-cellular "junk" and "junk-code" to radically extend cell and mitochondrial life-span. As I said if you wake up in 10 years, you will again be very shocked. Nano-technology is not too far from detecting cancer cells at inception and basically zapping them!

    When the drunk gets to the streetlight, his perception of things on the ground progresses non-linearly. That doesn’t mean his keys are there.
     
    This is a vacuous analogy, if one at all. Genomics for example is very specific, directed, and based on large scale statistical models, that are anything close to the antics of a drunk.

    I don’t think he meant you have to believe your every fantasy will come true, and then it certainly will. But maybe you disagree
     
    Of course I disagree. Human imagination is the key to discovery. Don't you realise that?!! It happens every day. Read Elon Musk's journey, his "fantasies" that so many dismissed. Yet what have we today? You should believe that man, and the Hyperloop will be there before you wake up.
    Ramanujan used to dream and fantasise about mathematical sequences and results, get up in the morning and write them down , as Hardy would marvel at them, asking him how he derived them, to which Ramanujan would say "I dreamed of them".
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @5371
    Points successfully evaded.

    Not really. My point was rather simple. Observe the trends. A Neanderthal past the ripe age of 36 years, having survived injury , were he to be placed in midst of Manhattan, would very likely die of shock.

    We have effectively increased that lifespan by 250%, most of the advancement coming in the last 100 years. And we have just begun (but progressing non-linearly) in our understanding of the code of life. Combined with technology of the following type:

    http://www.wired.com/2014/11/butterfly-network/

    You really have to be a bit imaginative. Just like Einstein prescribed.

    Read More
    • Replies: @5371
    [A Neanderthal past the ripe age of 36 years, having survived injury , were he to be placed in midst of Manhattan, would very likely die of shock]

    One might say the same, were he placed in the middle of Versailles, the Parthenon, Uruk or Göbekli Tepe. So what?

    [We have effectively increased that lifespan by 250%, most of the advancement coming in the last 100 years]

    The period of most rapid increase ended more than 60 years ago. Much the greatest part of the extension we owe to improvements in hygiene and public health, not to medical treatment, and nothing whatsoever to genome sequencing.

    [And we have just begun (but progressing non-linearly) in our understanding of the code of life.]

    When the drunk gets to the streetlight, his perception of things on the ground progresses non-linearly. That doesn't mean his keys are there.

    [You really have to be a bit imaginative. Just like Einstein prescribed.]

    I don't think he meant you have to believe your every fantasy will come true, and then it certainly will. But maybe you disagree.
    , @Romanus
    " A Neanderthal past the ripe age of 36 years, having survived injury , were he to be placed in midst of Manhattan, would very likely die of shock..."

    Hardly, since most Caucasians (esp. some semitic groups) and Asians carry varying degrees of neanderthal DNA themselves (depending on the level of historical interbreeding).

    http://michaelbradley.info/
    , @annamaria
    Thank you for posting the article on new imaging devices.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Thank you Mr Unz for this absolute keeper of an article. Shamir is as brilliant as ever.

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  • Always and intelligent, thought-provoking and well written read. Thank you.

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  • @Israel Shamir
    Rurik, whether a Jew, a Latin Christian or an Orthodox one, or even a Muslim, Middle East of Palestine and around is our common cradle of faith and civilisation.
    Crusaders did not have to remove Jews from Jerusalem as there were very few Jews in Palestine. They did slaughter the Orthodox Christians, however, and took over their churches. Jews lost nothing at the Crusades.
    Moorish contribution to Spanish civilisation is immense: that's why Alfonso promised to kill those who would ruin Giralda.
    As for destruction of Sudan, Israel, America and Western Europe may share the blame.
    For destruction of Philippines you may read Mark Twain http://www.historyisaweapon.com/defcon1/clemensmoromassacre.html - the Jews were not too involved in that, to my knowledge as they were not powerful yet in Washington.
    In short, Rurik, I am very tolerant to negative attitude to Jews, but this should not mislead you into an erroneous vision of history.

    Hello Mr. Shamir,

    Let me first say I’m honored to be writing to you. I’ve long admired your work (Your piece The Maid and the Ogre was sublime and powerful), and find it a little strange to be writing to you. That, I guess is one of the rather unique blessings of this site, that we of the great unwashed are allowed an opportunity to banter about with some of the greats of the written word. So I’d also like to take the opportunity to thank Mr. Unz once again for his efforts in creating and maintaining it.

    Rurik, whether a Jew, a Latin Christian or an Orthodox one, or even a Muslim, Middle East of Palestine and around is our common cradle of faith and civilisation.

    Faith perhaps, but hardly civilization. What the historians tell us is that civilization began on the Nile five thousand or so years ago. But there is ample evidence that it began much sooner and in myriad places concurrently. And most importantly from a contemporary understanding- if parochial, is that Western Civilization, which we all are marinated in to one degree or another, is a uniquely Western invention.

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  • @Israel Shamir
    Qasim, this is one of the best things I've heard of my writing )) Shukran, ya akhi

    Afwan, Mr. Shamir! :)

    I think one of the most important sentences in your article is where you write…

    We might roll medicine back to its Cuban level, where simple medical treatment is available to everyone for free, while complicated ones are just not available for anybody, including David Rockefeller.

    I applaud your courage for even broaching this subject, I have found that it opens up a person to being likened to Dr. Mengele.

    Nevertheless, I am convinced that banning various medical procedures is absolutely necessary if this country wants to a) eradicate the sort of suffering you describe in your article, and b) avoid bankrupting the whole system of medical care.

    I think simply outlawing ventilators (outside the operating room) and feeding tubes would get rid of most of the horrors of end of life care, the corpse-like people in hospitals and nursing homes are almost always dependent on at least one of these things to maintain their “life”.

    I also wonder about renal dialysis, which generally gives people a few years of poor-quality life before the inevitable.

    Chemotherapy and oncology as a whole seems to have an esteem among most that seems to me largely undeserved. I am well aware of the Lance Armstrong-like examples, but the general rule is severe pain and suffering during chemo and radiation, followed by a few year reprieve, followed by recurrence, more agony, emaciation, and death.

    Another important point is that any such measures would have to be imposed from outside, and that leaving these issues to the discretion of physicians is a recipe for disaster.

    What physician wants to continually encourage family members to let their loved one go, except at the very very end? If patients start to doubt that physicians are not doing their utmost to save them (and that may be motivated partially by the wish to save money), the reputation of doctors will become like that of lawyers overnight. And besides, we physicians get paid off of doing all this unnecessary crap! Try telling an oncologist that most of what they do is to profit off the death process by torturing people for a few extra years and see what they say.

    The worst part of it all is there is no way that these issues can ever be fixed given the current political and moral climate. Even the most conservative of suggestions would immediately lead to shrieks about “death panels” and what not, it seems that a collapse of the whole bloated system is inevitable. It is amazing how such a sweet-sounding phrase as “everyone has the right to health-care” will end up causing such a catastrophe.

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  • @Israel Shamir
    Indeed, SENS is nonSENSe. There will be no place for newcomer generations if the old guys will keep their seats. I am terribly sorry for Prince Charles who had no chance to rule as his mother lives forever. Think of Chronos and Saturn who were dealt with by their children because they would never die! We have to die to provide space for our children and grandchildren.

    I am terribly sorry for Prince Charles who had no chance to rule as his mother lives forever.

    Are you really? A monarchist, that is….

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  • @Anonymous
    And you have to be completely clueless to not realize that figuring how life works is light years apart from being able to alter its course.

    All right Great Anonymous Sage. (yawn….) and do let us know how that bit of blood-letting with or without leeches goes, if and when you catch the next bacterial infection, would you?

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  • Fear of God is healthy. Fear of death is sickness; it is denial of God and of Man’s privileged place in the Universe. Our departure will suit our life. Evil people do evil things because they are certain that there is nothing after.

    Good ideas in there, but a fear of death is normal, not sickness. Even among the elderly and the religious, there is a natural fear 0f death. With advancing medical technology, however, that natural fear brings about some unnatural consequences. Medical technology has kind of become like junk food, in a way. Just as junk food capitalizes on one of our most natural impulses – hunger – and turns it against us, medical technology capitalizes on our survival instinct and creates unforeseen negative consequences for society.

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  • @Abelard Lindsey
    SENS and stem-cell based regeneration will render all of these arguments irrelevant.

    And when will this happen? Give us some future date at which you will answer for your predictions.

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  • @Sam Shama
    Fine.

    I am not a researcher in the field, just a very interested observer who interacts with friends in this field (in institutions such as UC Berkley, HHMI, NHGRI and MSKCR). They all tell me the same thing: which is that progress is very much non-linear. You have to be deliberately obtuse not to recognise the phenomenal strides made in genomics and its impact, and how computing power is directly related to analysing permutations of gene networks!

    Points successfully evaded.

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    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    Not really. My point was rather simple. Observe the trends. A Neanderthal past the ripe age of 36 years, having survived injury , were he to be placed in midst of Manhattan, would very likely die of shock.

    We have effectively increased that lifespan by 250%, most of the advancement coming in the last 100 years. And we have just begun (but progressing non-linearly) in our understanding of the code of life. Combined with technology of the following type:

    http://www.wired.com/2014/11/butterfly-network/

    You really have to be a bit imaginative. Just like Einstein prescribed.
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  • If you guys are so enamored of death, I suggest you start by eliminating the legal barriers to the right to die. The obvious first step to recognition of death is to recognize the right to die.

    There was this young lady who was diagnosed with terminal brain cancer in my city last year. She chose to die on her own terms rather than put up with the terminal, futile suffering that her cancer involved. We had all of these “right to life” idiots coming out of the woodwork trying to convince her that she should “stay alive” even though there was no chance of a cure within the time window that these idiots acknowledged was the case. That her condition was terminal was not disputed by anyone. Yet these idiots kept coming out of the woodwork.

    I would suggest the utter debunking of these “pro-life” idiots as the place to start if you want to promote the acceptance of the right to die.

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    • Agree: SecretaryNS
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  • SENS and stem-cell based regeneration will render all of these arguments irrelevant.

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    • Replies: @5371
    And when will this happen? Give us some future date at which you will answer for your predictions.
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  • @Sam Shama
    Fine.

    I am not a researcher in the field, just a very interested observer who interacts with friends in this field (in institutions such as UC Berkley, HHMI, NHGRI and MSKCR). They all tell me the same thing: which is that progress is very much non-linear. You have to be deliberately obtuse not to recognise the phenomenal strides made in genomics and its impact, and how computing power is directly related to analysing permutations of gene networks!

    And you have to be completely clueless to not realize that figuring how life works is light years apart from being able to alter its course.

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    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    All right Great Anonymous Sage. (yawn....) and do let us know how that bit of blood-letting with or without leeches goes, if and when you catch the next bacterial infection, would you?
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  • This is an excellent, thought-provoking essay. The philosophical underpinnings differ from my own, and I cannot agree with much of it (the absolute objection to organ donations/receptions at the end of the donor’s life stands out in particular as strange to me, and I object strongly to equating the desire to extend the life of infants to that of the elderly), but that hardly matters. What matters is that I’ve never read anything like this, and its inclusion is a further credit to the Unz Review.

    I will add, since I don’t see it addressed anywhere else, that much of the end-of-life madness would end by necessity, at least in the US, were the young and healthy not forced to subsidize it through outrageous health insurance. Morally, it is wrong, I think, to spend $300,000 to extend one’s life by a few months when one could instead leave it as an inheritance to one’s children. But it’s even worse to spend $300,000 of someone else’s.

    As an aside, I suspect that the reason for allowing parents to keep their grown children on health insurance plans is to trick them into paying the nearly-double premiums for the “family plan”, when the costs of insuring a healthy 26 year old vastly outweigh the benefit of risk mitigation for them.

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  • @5371
    So you're another google jockey who thinks that if he can find somewhere on the internet a statement as stupid as his own, it's all right? Sorry, that doesn't cut it. You're going to have to show a link, in actual reality, between genome sequencing and the advance of life expectancy, comparable to that between cramming more transistors on a chip and performing more operations per second. Good luck.

    Fine.

    I am not a researcher in the field, just a very interested observer who interacts with friends in this field (in institutions such as UC Berkley, HHMI, NHGRI and MSKCR). They all tell me the same thing: which is that progress is very much non-linear. You have to be deliberately obtuse not to recognise the phenomenal strides made in genomics and its impact, and how computing power is directly related to analysing permutations of gene networks!

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    And you have to be completely clueless to not realize that figuring how life works is light years apart from being able to alter its course.
    , @5371
    Points successfully evaded.
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  • @Israel Shamir
    Indeed, SENS is nonSENSe. There will be no place for newcomer generations if the old guys will keep their seats. I am terribly sorry for Prince Charles who had no chance to rule as his mother lives forever. Think of Chronos and Saturn who were dealt with by their children because they would never die! We have to die to provide space for our children and grandchildren.

    Think of Chronos and Saturn who were dealt with by their children because they would never die!

    That is not the proposition. Its extension and a radically better life experience, without the suffering at the end. What’s to argue against, and who said that technology cannot accommodate a larger but stable population? Isn’t that what we have seen? (ve gam ken, ata rotze she’ani agid le savta sheli “maspik, tilkhi lamut!”?)

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    • Replies: @Israel Shamir

    “maspik, tilkhi lamut!
     
    Rather, muti kvar!
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  • @rod1963
    Many so-called convalescent homes are nightmares, they are places you hope and prey you won't spend your last days there. They are places where nightmares are made.

    Kervorkian's check out plan looks good after witnessing how people are treated. Or a bottle of vicodin and Vodka.

    These places are though a expression of modernity and the death of the family. What was once done by family members is outsourced to low wage Filipino nurses in a facility owned by some foreigner out of Asia.

    Modern society has become something of a obscenity. We warehouse our young - put them out of sight and mind. Education is left to mediocre strangers with hidden agendas. If we have money we have a nanny attend to them while the parents are doing more important things like making money or partying. Heaven forbid we invest a bit of time with our kids. Then we wonder why they grow up feral. The grandparents are kept at arms length and then one day put in a senior center and from there into a convalescent home to perish. No muss no fuss.

    May I add that the American grandparents are not particularly eager to spend their precious time with grandchildren (hence the institute of nannies). In the less “advanced” societies, small children used to be reared by grandparents while the parents were busy supporting their young family. And I agree that to handle a young child to a stranger when one has a financial security to be with and nurture the little one is at least stupid.

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  • @Israel Shamir
    What a great family you have, with David Rockefeller for a brother, and a sister that surrogates... Such guys can't believe in Christ, can you? And yes, I would tax the rich to the hilt. The best time for European museums and art was well before rise of the untaxed rich who prefer art of Damien Hirst. As for Sudan and Philippines, I am not aware that the Christian missionaries slaughtered the Philippines and bombed Sudan.

    Uncle Jethro still can’t manage the light touch. It may be disrespectful to say so but I suspect he takes himself rather seriously without quite having the substance, or the wit, to underpin his self-regard.
    (“Oh shut up Willy. Leave bad enough alone”)

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  • @Wizard of Oz
    Oh how it all comes back to me, those evenings having to listen to deaf old Uncle Jethro's table talk, a preacher's mix of commonplaces (yeah, often true enough) and BS. Survival was helped by mocking the BS... For instance, how could one resist agreeing that "we" had "devastated" the Phillipines and even Sudan (except "we"?: speak for yourself squire!!)? Wasn't it obvious that modern medicine and no fertility control, courtesy of Christian missionaries, would devastate them?

    And yes yes Uncle isn't it wicked that the rich don't spend or give their money to be spent (for surely Uncle you aren't saying "let governments tax them so it can be spent") on rearing billions more Third and Fourth World babies? And it's not just transplants for brother David that has to stop. It's all that money spent on the opera, the museums, the theatre and orchestras, fine dining [that especially: a chef with a good pair of hands would have made a fine obstetrician] and all games of skill....Opportunity cost all round.

    And let me tell you about my cousin who just loved being pregnant, so that after she had her own four kids and was a surrogate for her sister she......

    "Oh shut up Willy. You know Uncle Jethro believes in God and we've surely brought you up not to mock people's religion!"

    "But if he wants to ram it down...." "I said SHUT UP Willy".

    What a great family you have, with David Rockefeller for a brother, and a sister that surrogates… Such guys can’t believe in Christ, can you? And yes, I would tax the rich to the hilt. The best time for European museums and art was well before rise of the untaxed rich who prefer art of Damien Hirst. As for Sudan and Philippines, I am not aware that the Christian missionaries slaughtered the Philippines and bombed Sudan.

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Uncle Jethro still can't manage the light touch. It may be disrespectful to say so but I suspect he takes himself rather seriously without quite having the substance, or the wit, to underpin his self-regard.
    ("Oh shut up Willy. Leave bad enough alone")
    , @Sam Shama

    rich who prefer art of Damien Hirst
     
    Transitivity of tastes, especially for the Reaper, therefore, would suggest that you are a multi-millionaire. So an Orthodox-Christian- Communist-millionaire. There! we have a new category to add to the PC behaviour list.
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  • @Rurik

    cause a new war in the Middle East, send out a new wave of refugees, and destroy the cradle of our faith and civilization.
     
    I read it again and the whole essay seems to me to be a conflagration (of some the more questionable values and sensibilities) of Israel and/or Western civilization (what's left of it)

    It reads like Israel and the West are one and the same. That's who the "our" and "we" is.

    But the reason this strikes me is because Israel and the West are hardly one and the same. In spite of the fact that Jews control absolutely the entire edifice of the West's institutions.

    When Mr. Shamir writes of the "cradle of our faith and civilization", is he talking about Jerusalem (cradle of our faith) or Europe, (the cradle of our civilization)?

    They are not one and the same. One need only look to the Crusades to see that Europe (Christendom) marched on Jerusalem to remove the Muslim and the Jews. Have we reached that point in history when Jewish domination of our culture and institutions has been so complete for so l0ng that today western civilization is Jewish Israeli? Perhaps so. Now that would make for an interesting essay!

    But unless this has happened, (and I don't believe it has) when I read about how the "cradle of our faith and civilization" is on the verge of destruction, I see Europe as the cradle of my faith and civilization, and Israel as its most tenacious and determined enemy. So they're hardly one and the same.

    An analogy for me would be if an intellectual during the 13th or 14th century Moorish domination of Spain were to speak of Islam and the Moors as being one and the same as the people and traditions of Spain. As if the cultural and spiritual and institutional domination of Spain and its people by the African Moors for so long had turned them into Muslims and Moors absolutely. But it didn't. Any more than I have been turned into an Israeli. Nothing could be further from the truth.

    Rurik, whether a Jew, a Latin Christian or an Orthodox one, or even a Muslim, Middle East of Palestine and around is our common cradle of faith and civilisation.
    Crusaders did not have to remove Jews from Jerusalem as there were very few Jews in Palestine. They did slaughter the Orthodox Christians, however, and took over their churches. Jews lost nothing at the Crusades.
    Moorish contribution to Spanish civilisation is immense: that’s why Alfonso promised to kill those who would ruin Giralda.
    As for destruction of Sudan, Israel, America and Western Europe may share the blame.
    For destruction of Philippines you may read Mark Twain http://www.historyisaweapon.com/defcon1/clemensmoromassacre.html – the Jews were not too involved in that, to my knowledge as they were not powerful yet in Washington.
    In short, Rurik, I am very tolerant to negative attitude to Jews, but this should not mislead you into an erroneous vision of history.

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    • Replies: @Rurik
    Hello Mr. Shamir,

    Let me first say I'm honored to be writing to you. I've long admired your work (Your piece The Maid and the Ogre was sublime and powerful), and find it a little strange to be writing to you. That, I guess is one of the rather unique blessings of this site, that we of the great unwashed are allowed an opportunity to banter about with some of the greats of the written word. So I'd also like to take the opportunity to thank Mr. Unz once again for his efforts in creating and maintaining it.

    Rurik, whether a Jew, a Latin Christian or an Orthodox one, or even a Muslim, Middle East of Palestine and around is our common cradle of faith and civilisation.
     
    Faith perhaps, but hardly civilization. What the historians tell us is that civilization began on the Nile five thousand or so years ago. But there is ample evidence that it began much sooner and in myriad places concurrently. And most importantly from a contemporary understanding- if parochial, is that Western Civilization, which we all are marinated in to one degree or another, is a uniquely Western invention.
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  • @Qasim
    This article crosses the thin line between genius and madness repeatedly.

    For me, it brought back bad memories of my medical internship. I often had to cover a nursing home, my skin would crawl whenever I was there. The gurgling breathing through the ventilators, the smell, the glassy eyes, the grotesquely swollen limbs, the purulent sacral ulcers, the soiled diapers, and worst of all the complete lack of visitors, I often pray that God spares me such a horrific end.

    Mr. Unz, I hope you read this comment. I really want to thank you for assembling such an eclectic and thought-provoking group of writers on this website, I have never come across anything like it, on the web or in print.

    Qasim, this is one of the best things I’ve heard of my writing )) Shukran, ya akhi

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    • Replies: @Qasim
    Afwan, Mr. Shamir! :)

    I think one of the most important sentences in your article is where you write...

    We might roll medicine back to its Cuban level, where simple medical treatment is available to everyone for free, while complicated ones are just not available for anybody, including David Rockefeller.

    I applaud your courage for even broaching this subject, I have found that it opens up a person to being likened to Dr. Mengele.

    Nevertheless, I am convinced that banning various medical procedures is absolutely necessary if this country wants to a) eradicate the sort of suffering you describe in your article, and b) avoid bankrupting the whole system of medical care.

    I think simply outlawing ventilators (outside the operating room) and feeding tubes would get rid of most of the horrors of end of life care, the corpse-like people in hospitals and nursing homes are almost always dependent on at least one of these things to maintain their "life".

    I also wonder about renal dialysis, which generally gives people a few years of poor-quality life before the inevitable.

    Chemotherapy and oncology as a whole seems to have an esteem among most that seems to me largely undeserved. I am well aware of the Lance Armstrong-like examples, but the general rule is severe pain and suffering during chemo and radiation, followed by a few year reprieve, followed by recurrence, more agony, emaciation, and death.

    Another important point is that any such measures would have to be imposed from outside, and that leaving these issues to the discretion of physicians is a recipe for disaster.

    What physician wants to continually encourage family members to let their loved one go, except at the very very end? If patients start to doubt that physicians are not doing their utmost to save them (and that may be motivated partially by the wish to save money), the reputation of doctors will become like that of lawyers overnight. And besides, we physicians get paid off of doing all this unnecessary crap! Try telling an oncologist that most of what they do is to profit off the death process by torturing people for a few extra years and see what they say.

    The worst part of it all is there is no way that these issues can ever be fixed given the current political and moral climate. Even the most conservative of suggestions would immediately lead to shrieks about "death panels" and what not, it seems that a collapse of the whole bloated system is inevitable. It is amazing how such a sweet-sounding phrase as "everyone has the right to health-care" will end up causing such a catastrophe.
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  • @Anonymous
    SENS is on the horizon only in the minds of Aubrey de Grey cultists. It is perfectly rational to ignore it.

    Indeed, SENS is nonSENSe. There will be no place for newcomer generations if the old guys will keep their seats. I am terribly sorry for Prince Charles who had no chance to rule as his mother lives forever. Think of Chronos and Saturn who were dealt with by their children because they would never die! We have to die to provide space for our children and grandchildren.

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    • Replies: @Sam Shama

    Think of Chronos and Saturn who were dealt with by their children because they would never die!
     
    That is not the proposition. Its extension and a radically better life experience, without the suffering at the end. What's to argue against, and who said that technology cannot accommodate a larger but stable population? Isn't that what we have seen? (ve gam ken, ata rotze she'ani agid le savta sheli "maspik, tilkhi lamut!"?)
    , @Sam Shama

    I am terribly sorry for Prince Charles who had no chance to rule as his mother lives forever.
     
    Are you really? A monarchist, that is....
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  • @joe webb
    "In other words, I am unaware of any time-invariant moral code."

    Allow me to instruct: a moral code must be based on biology, group survival, family survival, and individual survival, about in that order.

    A moral code by definition must support "morale." Morale is rooted in social acceptance and to a lesser degree, in one's own integrity. Of course, integrity is based in a large Moral Whole, your social and community life in general. You cannot work for people who want you dead , parasitized, or defeated in any way. Also, good work, is part of integrity.

    I hope this helps. IF it doesn't see Sir Arthur Kent's work on this theme of morality/ethics in a context of biological realism.

    Joe Webb

    moral code must be based

    Joe (whom I know on the Webb for ages) would not recognise moral, let alone moral code if it were served for him with greens. As regular biological racist he is into survival of the fittest (meaning him).

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  • @anony-mouse
    Mr. Jermash doesn't like Female surrogacy because 'we should take birth, life and death as they come'.

    But with all the many things he has decried he doesn't seem to have mentioned sperm banks because of course that would limit heterosexual Males like himself from spreading their seed and not taking 'birth, life and death as they come'.

    he doesn’t seem to have mentioned

    Moreover, the author did not mention Katrina Hurricane, cabbages and kings. This is a clear plot of heterosexual males!

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  • @Sam Shama
    LOL.
    Terrific, droll recollection of a play that exposes Shamir's collectivist-irredentist dream, one that leaves no room at all, for radical technological advancement in SENS. Its amazing how effortlessly he switches between Christian faith and communism.

    how effortlessly he switches between Christian faith and communism.

    That’s because Communism is Christian faith sans Christ, secularised Orthodox Christianity

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  • @Sam Shama
    Well enlighten me by all means. But in the meantime also read
    Gerhard Spekowius & Thomas Wendler, or from a selection in the U.S. National Library on Medicine, especially by Vosburgh and Newbower.



    https://books.google.com/books?id=q7MH6QWJ4gMC&pg=PA1&lpg=PA1&dq=Moore%27s+Law+and+Medical+technology&source=bl&ots=FG_EIEdCqy&sig=1Na-VVbATe111LZoVSbFfScHRbE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CEEQ6AEwBWoVChMInZyAyZnUxwIVxYoNCh1qfw3z#v=onepage&q=Moore's%20Law%20and%20Medical%20technology&f=false

    Adoption of these technologies in clinical fields are very slow, (except the obvious use in genomics) but they will happen.

    So you’re another google jockey who thinks that if he can find somewhere on the internet a statement as stupid as his own, it’s all right? Sorry, that doesn’t cut it. You’re going to have to show a link, in actual reality, between genome sequencing and the advance of life expectancy, comparable to that between cramming more transistors on a chip and performing more operations per second. Good luck.

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    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    Fine.

    I am not a researcher in the field, just a very interested observer who interacts with friends in this field (in institutions such as UC Berkley, HHMI, NHGRI and MSKCR). They all tell me the same thing: which is that progress is very much non-linear. You have to be deliberately obtuse not to recognise the phenomenal strides made in genomics and its impact, and how computing power is directly related to analysing permutations of gene networks!

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  • @anony-mouse
    Mr. Jermash doesn't like Female surrogacy because 'we should take birth, life and death as they come'.

    But with all the many things he has decried he doesn't seem to have mentioned sperm banks because of course that would limit heterosexual Males like himself from spreading their seed and not taking 'birth, life and death as they come'.

    I don’t believe he denounced double parking, coprophagia or fraudulent bankruptcy either. By your excellent logic, that means he specifically endorsed all of those things.

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  • @Qasim
    This article crosses the thin line between genius and madness repeatedly.

    For me, it brought back bad memories of my medical internship. I often had to cover a nursing home, my skin would crawl whenever I was there. The gurgling breathing through the ventilators, the smell, the glassy eyes, the grotesquely swollen limbs, the purulent sacral ulcers, the soiled diapers, and worst of all the complete lack of visitors, I often pray that God spares me such a horrific end.

    Mr. Unz, I hope you read this comment. I really want to thank you for assembling such an eclectic and thought-provoking group of writers on this website, I have never come across anything like it, on the web or in print.

    Many so-called convalescent homes are nightmares, they are places you hope and prey you won’t spend your last days there. They are places where nightmares are made.

    Kervorkian’s check out plan looks good after witnessing how people are treated. Or a bottle of vicodin and Vodka.

    These places are though a expression of modernity and the death of the family. What was once done by family members is outsourced to low wage Filipino nurses in a facility owned by some foreigner out of Asia.

    Modern society has become something of a obscenity. We warehouse our young – put them out of sight and mind. Education is left to mediocre strangers with hidden agendas. If we have money we have a nanny attend to them while the parents are doing more important things like making money or partying. Heaven forbid we invest a bit of time with our kids. Then we wonder why they grow up feral. The grandparents are kept at arms length and then one day put in a senior center and from there into a convalescent home to perish. No muss no fuss.

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    • Replies: @annamaria
    May I add that the American grandparents are not particularly eager to spend their precious time with grandchildren (hence the institute of nannies). In the less "advanced" societies, small children used to be reared by grandparents while the parents were busy supporting their young family. And I agree that to handle a young child to a stranger when one has a financial security to be with and nurture the little one is at least stupid.
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  • @joe webb
    "In other words, I am unaware of any time-invariant moral code."

    Allow me to instruct: a moral code must be based on biology, group survival, family survival, and individual survival, about in that order.

    A moral code by definition must support "morale." Morale is rooted in social acceptance and to a lesser degree, in one's own integrity. Of course, integrity is based in a large Moral Whole, your social and community life in general. You cannot work for people who want you dead , parasitized, or defeated in any way. Also, good work, is part of integrity.

    I hope this helps. IF it doesn't see Sir Arthur Kent's work on this theme of morality/ethics in a context of biological realism.

    Joe Webb

    Thanks, I will certainly try to read Arthur Kent’s work if I get a chance. It seems to me that in this definition, morality is closely related to survival, which I should think is a basic instinct. So clearly that has to be time-invariant.

    Shamir’s ideas on moral behaviour in my estimation is very much a function of the historic lens through which it is viewed, and therefore varies with time.

    On the other hand, if your criteria were to be applied to Shamir, his prescriptions might lead to immoral outcomes. Not all of it, but certainly a subset, because he cares not for the individual’s rights. (Not entirely sure).

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  • @All Hail Baal
    There is much in this article that is questionable but a morbid fear of death is definitely a destroyer of morality. Even Jesus died. If the Bible is to be believed, at least he went peaceably. Instead of a Disneyesque "Circle of Life" we are ruled by Death. It is part and parcel of this world.The sooner we make our peace with this the better. Life in this world is a game that nobody can win, the best you can hope for is to lose gracefully and that is not very likely.

    I’m all for a person transitioning back to dumb matter. For most people there wouldn’t be any change.

    Almost every speck of matter in the universe is, so enjoy the return. I prefer not to go back.

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  • Very interesting in that you showed the underlying unity of the seemingly disparate elements of your narrative as you wove together: efforts to prolong life beyond all medical sensibility, cannibalism, harvesting of organs from the living, surrogate motherhood as slavery, kidnapping, the need to remove the victim status of homosexuality by artificial fertility, the need for Christ, the need for repentance.

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    • Disagree: Wizard of Oz
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  • To everything there is a season, and a time for every purpose under heaven.

    In the past it was woman’s duty, realm, to take care of infants, the infirm and the old.

    Allow me to speak of my own experiences.

    There was mother and father and I, then also my siblings. There is a dynamic in family relations that is often interfered with, botched and destroyed in “our” societies.

    Because somebody can and is willing to pay for a lot of things, that makes it right? Because there is a market for babies, because wombs are available for hire. Because there are people who due to lifestyle can not have children, or do not want to go to the trouble themselves, but they can buy them one way or the other. A child is not a consumer article.

    I grew up in a very large family. There is a sense of belonging, security, contentment, total trust, that is in divine order. The English language lacks a word for Geborgenheit . If you have experienced this you can also sense/feel the connectedness that reaches far into the distant past. That is why they speak of roots.

    When my grandmother was 94, still totally lucid, one day she said she was going to die now, her time was up. She was calm and, after we, her nine children and a few of the grandchildren including me, sang a few of her favorite hymns, she told us to go home, she was prepared to go. And she did.
    My father died peacefully. Tuesday he went to choir rehearsal (at age 87 he still had a magnificent bass) and on Thursday he died.
    I had the privilege to spend the last of her days with my mother. We talked about dying and the other side. Mother was glad I was there to talk with her about those subjects. She died peacefully, lucid and wide awake. She was 91 and it was time to call it a day.
    I think of my grandparents and parents with great devotion, gratitude, and reverence.

    Grandmother had become blind, mother had become somewhat dependent. What impressed me, though it should not have, was the rapport they had with the littlest ones. One 2year old great grand daughter and two 4 year old great grandsons.

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  • @Sam Shama
    While one might agree that this piece presents some immediate moral dilemmas, especially for the Western world, the basis of such morality might be quite fleeting. In other words, I am unaware of any time-invariant moral code. Most importantly, human lifespan has continually expanded in the last century, and medical technology that caused it to be so, progresses not radically differently than Moore's Law in CS. For Shamir of course, this is an inconvenient reality, much as a medieval preacher's discovery that antibiotics are significantly more effective than faith, at curing Leprosy.

    “In other words, I am unaware of any time-invariant moral code.”

    Allow me to instruct: a moral code must be based on biology, group survival, family survival, and individual survival, about in that order.

    A moral code by definition must support “morale.” Morale is rooted in social acceptance and to a lesser degree, in one’s own integrity. Of course, integrity is based in a large Moral Whole, your social and community life in general. You cannot work for people who want you dead , parasitized, or defeated in any way. Also, good work, is part of integrity.

    I hope this helps. IF it doesn’t see Sir Arthur Kent’s work on this theme of morality/ethics in a context of biological realism.

    Joe Webb

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    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    Thanks, I will certainly try to read Arthur Kent's work if I get a chance. It seems to me that in this definition, morality is closely related to survival, which I should think is a basic instinct. So clearly that has to be time-invariant.

    Shamir's ideas on moral behaviour in my estimation is very much a function of the historic lens through which it is viewed, and therefore varies with time.

    On the other hand, if your criteria were to be applied to Shamir, his prescriptions might lead to immoral outcomes. Not all of it, but certainly a subset, because he cares not for the individual's rights. (Not entirely sure).

    , @Israel Shamir

    moral code must be based
     
    Joe (whom I know on the Webb for ages) would not recognise moral, let alone moral code if it were served for him with greens. As regular biological racist he is into survival of the fittest (meaning him).
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  • @Anatoly Karlin
    Some questionable rhetorical points aside, Israel Shamir presents us with two options:

    (1) Spend absurd amounts of time and energy on wringing out the last couple years of unhealthy life expectancy.

    (2) Try to go out with a minimum of fuss and with one's dignity intact.

    This has been the traditional dichotomy. In fact, for most people, (1) wasn't even a choice. Only once societies became rich did it become a viable option.

    However, there is now another prospect on the technological horizon:

    (3) Radical life extension, with SENS likely the most promising candidate.

    Of course not really an option for those already nearing their actuarial endpoints - unless you have the money and are willing to wade into cryonics, though some might argue this is really just a particularly absurd case of (1) - but otherwise this is something that would cardinally change the equation. And it is possible to contribute to making it reality directly through research, publicity, and/or donations.

    It's worth pointing out that even though minor gains in healthy life expectancy will result in drastic decreases in the sorts of issues that Shamir laments (dependence, expensive treatments, etc) there is approximately 1,000x less research money devoted to slowing/stopping ageing as there is to treating individual diseases that individually, on average, only help people eke out a few more weeks or months at best. This isn't very rational.

    SENS is on the horizon only in the minds of Aubrey de Grey cultists. It is perfectly rational to ignore it.

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    • Replies: @Israel Shamir
    Indeed, SENS is nonSENSe. There will be no place for newcomer generations if the old guys will keep their seats. I am terribly sorry for Prince Charles who had no chance to rule as his mother lives forever. Think of Chronos and Saturn who were dealt with by their children because they would never die! We have to die to provide space for our children and grandchildren.
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  • Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Yevardian
    I too have similar scarring experiences as a child regarding the unnatural extension of life. Two of my grandparents contracted seriously malignant cancer (practically untreatable), they agreed to undergo crippling chemotherapy. They lived their final days in unthinking pain as yellow husks, decaying in an anonymous ward surrounded by other living corpses who never knew them; artificially preserved after by coldly professional mortality-staff. Not to mention the abominable practice of installing television sets blaring banal garbage erasing the last days formerly dedicated to deep contemplation, self-judgement, reticence and repentance.
    Every family member who visited them was shocked by the utterly decrepit state of "life" they had spent thousands on, via an array of hugely expensive machines. After less than five minutes, not even their own children could stand attending the diseased vegetables their parents had become.

    What happened to the elderly calmly accepting death, choosing to live their final days looked by their descendants; in their own homes?

    It seems even man's final goodbye is becoming corporatised, centralised, trivialised and overtaken by the government. This issue is among the main reason I can never really trust Anatoly Karlin due to his side-interest in vulgar "transcendentalism". Though I think only the Russian language can sufficiently describe it's level of tastelessness or it's pseudo-mystical air: Пошлость.

    You hit the nail right on the head. That’s why when my mother-in-law got diagnosed with pancreatic cancer (which was effectively a death verdict) with only 60 days to live my wife decided against the chemotherapy and I supported her in this difficult decision. I will never forget the casual if not cold calculating look on the face of that NYC oncologist. I could swear that I saw a flash of dollar signs doing “cha-ching!” in his eyes the moment he proposed to us the treatment plan. We left that office and never came back. Not for a moment did we regret that we let my mother-in-law spend her final days with the family and depart this world peacefully w/o causing her the useless and unnecessary pain in order to prolong the misery by a few more days and pat ourselves on the back with the “we’ve done everything we could”. And yes, to the best of my knowledge there is no equivalent to the Russian “пошлость” in the English language.

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  • @Rurik

    and destroy the cradle of our faith and civilization.
     
    "the cradle of our faith"

    ~

    who is "our'? ..

    I think you're Russian no? Do you mean Russian, Israeli? Western man? Jew?

    are they all the same?

    However, the most dangerous trend we are facing springs from our arrogant desire to override the natural order of birth, life and death.
     
    who is 'our'?

    Once, the slavers had to go to Africa, hunt and seize prospective slaves and ship them to plantations. We destroyed their societies, and now the slaves are paying their own fare and competing to live in Uncle Tom’s cabin
     
    With all due respect sir, who is "we"?

    - the "white man" / the "Jew"? Both? Western Civilization perhaps? Me?


    Our societies kill perfectly healthy children, whether by abortion or by bombing their populous countries. Five hundred thousand Iraqi children were killed by Madeleine Albright, to her satisfaction
     
    "Our"?

    who please.. if you don't mind, do you mean by "our"?

    to whom it may concern…or put simpler, where the shoe fits.

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  • Mr. Jermash doesn’t like Female surrogacy because ‘we should take birth, life and death as they come’.

    But with all the many things he has decried he doesn’t seem to have mentioned sperm banks because of course that would limit heterosexual Males like himself from spreading their seed and not taking ‘birth, life and death as they come’.

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    • Replies: @5371
    I don't believe he denounced double parking, coprophagia or fraudulent bankruptcy either. By your excellent logic, that means he specifically endorsed all of those things.
    , @Israel Shamir

    he doesn’t seem to have mentioned
     
    Moreover, the author did not mention Katrina Hurricane, cabbages and kings. This is a clear plot of heterosexual males!
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