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 All Comments / By Sydney Schanberg
    Eighteen months ago, TAC publisher Ron Unz discovered an astonishing account of the role the 2008 Republican presidential nominee, John McCain, had played in suppressing information about what happened to American soldiers missing in action in Vietnam. Below, we present in full Sydney Schanberg’s explosive story. John McCain, who has risen to political prominence on...
  • So many of my generation served or lost fathers, brothers, sons in Vietnam…all for naught as the Communists here undermined our efforts to keep their buddies from enslaving North Vietnamese peoples.

    If McCain so readily betrays the Republican party he likely turned traitor to his fellow POW’s. He averts his gaze or blows up at the suggestion he ratted out his fellows, betrayed them, and accepted special privileges. The lengths McCain has gone to keep the truth from the American people is evidence of his cooperation with his North Vietnamese captors. What better way to cover one’s past than to abandon brothers in arms to the enemy to be murdered or die slow deaths in a remote jungle prison camp?

    If McCain is complicit in any cover up he and anyone else involved should be prosecuted for treason. I further believe we must return to hanging for treason.
    Sure, as a Republican, I voted for McCain…but physically held my nose as I pulled the lever. National hero? National shame and disgrace!

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  • Sydney Schanberg won a Pulitzer Prize for his reporting on the war in Indochina. Yet his explosive 2008 essay ‘McCain and the POW Cover-Up‘ was stonewalled by the mainstream media. Here we present Schanberg’s account of his struggle to bring the story of Vietnam’s forgotten veterans to the public’s — and press’s — attention. From...
  • My God, some of these men *must still be alive.*
    They would be in their seventies.
    How can one as a citizen find out who/where they might be?

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  • Eighteen months ago, TAC publisher Ron Unz discovered an astonishing account of the role the 2008 Republican presidential nominee, John McCain, had played in suppressing information about what happened to American soldiers missing in action in Vietnam. Below, we present in full Sydney Schanberg’s explosive story. John McCain, who has risen to political prominence on...
  • Trump nailed his ass during the campaign. No wonder McCain hates his guts. Trump was on to something.

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  • This article is pretty old but quite disillusioning. In 1984, I was a Senior Inspector with the US Customs at LAX (Los Angeles). A search team in the passenger building asked me to talk to a Viet lady that had arrived from Vietnam. She would tell me that her brother had been in a re-education camp and while he was there he saw a group of Anglo prisoners that he presumed to be Americans. There were between 15-20 but his group were not allowed near the other group. The lady felt that the information should be passed to the US government. She seemed quite sincere and made no attempt at asking for special treatment. I had her give me a telephone number and then contacted the local FBI Agent at LAX because I knew that our Customs Agents were mostly inept. The FBI agent told me that it wasn’t important so I pressed him to make a high level call. He then agreed that a meeting would be held. After that it was out of my hands and I was furious after discovering that large loads of cocaine had been funneled through LAX as part of the Iran-Contra scheme. From that point, I started writing to members of Congress.

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  • @anarchyst
    Let's not forget that McCain's "daddy" Admiral also assisted in the cover-up of the deliberate Israeli attack on the USS Liberty (GTR-5). I guess that "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree"...

    McCain’s “daddy” Admiral also assisted in the cover-up of the deliberate Israeli attack on the USS Liberty (GTR-5)

    The USS Liberty cover-up continues to this day.

    Nobody wants to talk about what role LBJ’s administration played before, during and after the Liberty incident. The conspiracy of silence appears to be bi-partisan, or to use a more modern phrase, Deep State.

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  • The “word” does get around despite the official lies (all they seem to do these days…) and it is NEVER trust your leaders to look out for your interests if things go sideways. NEVER risk you backside…think about the implications of that ? I have Vietnam veterans as relatives…I’m glad my Dad made it home but I would NEVER allow any of my kids to serve and be placed at risk by our immoral government…NEVER…

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  • “no POWs left in Vietnam.” If true, it was prolly because they all died or were shipped elsewhere by then.

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  • its one of those easy little test to find out if a person is a thinking principled person or one of the sheeple.

    just ask them what they think of john Mccain.

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  • Mc Cain is a COWARD! He made it seem like he was the only POW and he signed papers while imprisoned against the United States. He should not have ever been in our Government. He was 795 in a class of 800, and I agree that the only reason he graduated was because of his high ranking father and Grandfather. Shame on him!

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  • He sure did. Had the truth been know, he would have look bad, because either he knew or was afraid if it were true it would make him look bad in his silence.

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  • Incredibly Mr. Schanberg has now joined Joe McCarthy as “blacklisted by history.” Interesting media note: The Village Voice once featured this story in the run-up to the 2004 election with John Kerry in his Brooks Brothers suit tossing shovelfulls of dirt on the grave marked POW. The Nation tip-toed toward the story in 2008 as a way of throwing some mud on McCain. BUT the last time I looked the VV story was still archived while the Nation….had taken it down.

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  • And yet here he is, after all these years, working with the foe and collaborating with the enemy and still getting elected. I know all that has been written. I will die not seeing this man taken to task for his crimes. I’ve prayed to be alive when that moment happens but now I know that’s its not because the truth is not out. It’s because the system protects him and forwards their agenda.

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  • @Anonymous
    I will not participate in meanness or innuendo. I am a Veteran and will speak truth. I remember when McCain was captured. My brothers and I watching on AFRTS and reading in the Stars and Stripes paper the traitor (1) lying on a gurney, (2) arm in a cast, (3) smoking a cigarette while being interviewed, knowing full well the cost to other GI's for getting those 3 things (at least).

    Shortly thereafter watching almost every one of McCain's F4 fighter squadron being shot down because of flight path, tactical and strategic information he gave his captors.

    Hearing and reading the things he said to our troops over the enemies radio systems just as the "Tokyo Roses" did in WWII.

    After the war watching with heartbreak as he used his political powers to block every attempt of our military, groups, families and even individuals to find and return POW's and MIA's through the 70's and 80's.

    Living through the Keating Five scandal and savings and loan tragedy, he was involved in, that nearly broke this country.

    Some of us are blessed with the ability to keenly remember things. Some of which you can't even see, hear or read anymore because truth has been "wiped" for those of vast power who are corrupt. Mr McCain willingly chose to serve the wrong gods. The cost to himself for what he has done I cannot imagine. May God have mercy on his soul.

    So perfectly stated. So much truth.

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  • @Anonymous
    I will not participate in meanness or innuendo. I am a Veteran and will speak truth. I remember when McCain was captured. My brothers and I watching on AFRTS and reading in the Stars and Stripes paper the traitor (1) lying on a gurney, (2) arm in a cast, (3) smoking a cigarette while being interviewed, knowing full well the cost to other GI's for getting those 3 things (at least).

    Shortly thereafter watching almost every one of McCain's F4 fighter squadron being shot down because of flight path, tactical and strategic information he gave his captors.

    Hearing and reading the things he said to our troops over the enemies radio systems just as the "Tokyo Roses" did in WWII.

    After the war watching with heartbreak as he used his political powers to block every attempt of our military, groups, families and even individuals to find and return POW's and MIA's through the 70's and 80's.

    Living through the Keating Five scandal and savings and loan tragedy, he was involved in, that nearly broke this country.

    Some of us are blessed with the ability to keenly remember things. Some of which you can't even see, hear or read anymore because truth has been "wiped" for those of vast power who are corrupt. Mr McCain willingly chose to serve the wrong gods. The cost to himself for what he has done I cannot imagine. May God have mercy on his soul.

    That would be A4 not F4.

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  • Let’s not forget that McCain’s “daddy” Admiral also assisted in the cover-up of the deliberate Israeli attack on the USS Liberty (GTR-5). I guess that “the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree”…

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    • Replies: @Eagle Eye

    McCain’s “daddy” Admiral also assisted in the cover-up of the deliberate Israeli attack on the USS Liberty (GTR-5)
     
    The USS Liberty cover-up continues to this day.

    Nobody wants to talk about what role LBJ's administration played before, during and after the Liberty incident. The conspiracy of silence appears to be bi-partisan, or to use a more modern phrase, Deep State.

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  • @coyote
    McInsane killed sailors on the Forrestal and went on to kill his squadron pilots, then condemn POWs MIAs to slow deaths and executions... he serves no gods, only Satan. His role in our government has been to send more of our young to death in service of zionist neocon wars. God will have no mercy on his soul.

    McCain got away with his antics because his daddy was an admiral.

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  • It was a senseless war, I wish it did not have

    http://www.kahootgames.com

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  • @coyote
    I lost friends, high school companions, in that cesspool of the war machine. McInsane got a free ride to Annapolis, became a pilot and burned up 140 some sailors when he cut in the afterburners onto a missile loaded plane behind him. Whisked away from the Forrestal before any investigation could begin shipboard (his father was Admiral Mc Cain (CINC atlantic fleet), he did not fly much longer before being shot down. (If that is what happened). We see his collaboration with the enemy still today: witness the selfies on the internet taken by Islamic terrorists in the Mideast, standing with this tool of the devil. The MIA movement finally gave up when most of us got diseases, got old, got tired, got cynical, got dead while waiting for justice for our brothers-in-arms and medical treatment from the VA. Donald Trump knows the truth; I pray he puts John McCain on trial for treason and hangs him from the Washington monument.

    The film of the Forrestal fire clearly shows a rocket as the cause.

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  • Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    As I approach my 67 year as an American I’ve come to the conclusion our nation has become so corrupt that it is beyond reversal. At the end of the VN war I recall vividly the demand for money in return for POWs. I also recall that the story grew murky after the first installment of US POWs came home. It was my thought then, as it is now, that the agreed upon money was never paid for the complete release of our fighting men. Smedley Butler had this war thing right; it’s a racket that lines the pickets of the uber rich at the expense of America’s youth. Screw John McCain.

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  • […] di quello stesso McCain che tradì i suoi commilitoni prigionieri in Vietnam. Ron Unz ha portato prove convincenti che dimostrano che McCain fu l’uomola cui falsa testimonianza fece condannare  i […]

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  • Its time to unleash the London press on this – local US reportage and ‘ investigation ‘ is shoddy and incompetent …

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  • There were many reports in the early 70s about sightings and more remote camps where “Americans ” were held. There were a few books written about Americans said to be alive and held as collateral. A few books and reports also mentioned Air Force crews running commo in many remote areas in Vietnam and yet these teams were not given Vietnam campaign credit.
    Those of us who were not completely sure but felt that certain people who reported sightings of POWs as well as AF teams among others were not thinking wishfully. We were hopeful because you cannot send people to war and then just dismiss them and make the rest of us feel like dumb gullible hicks because we had faith in the integrity of some who saw Americans and heard from loyal Vietnamese that there were Americans who were alive and then our government spokes people said that what we “heard” was all rubbish and that we were stupid and gullible..

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  • Great article- I still have the copy of The American Conservative when part of the story was featured.

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  • @Barbara
    I just read all the reports, I find that I have truly back then , didn't see McCain for what he is. I disgusted of my self to even trusting him. And I voted for him for President. I feel sick. And then to read He lied about the other POW's . God help us. First Kerry and now McCain what the hell do we have in the congress and Senate. First class corruption. Kick them all out. I want this to get out and no more cover ups. And now we have Satanic obama at the helm. I also have been reading about the Muslim Brotherhood and what they plan for our country . This has all got to stop. We have to kick them all out and start over, with trust worthy men.

    Gee Barbara, I wonder where you get your information? Obama surely isn’t the greatest leader, mostly thanks to a horrific stonewalling congress, but he surely isn’t Satanic. Check your sources as you should have done with McCain. http://www.unz.com

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  • @Marquelot
    McCain is a gutless coward, and he has been for most of his lifetime. When he sang to his North Vietnamese captors he was given liberties and privileges the other prisoners weren't, and he played them to the hilt. Only in the US could a coward like this actually gain the nomination of a major political party in his bid for the presidency.

    I lost friends, high school companions, in that cesspool of the war machine. McInsane got a free ride to Annapolis, became a pilot and burned up 140 some sailors when he cut in the afterburners onto a missile loaded plane behind him. Whisked away from the Forrestal before any investigation could begin shipboard (his father was Admiral Mc Cain (CINC atlantic fleet), he did not fly much longer before being shot down. (If that is what happened). We see his collaboration with the enemy still today: witness the selfies on the internet taken by Islamic terrorists in the Mideast, standing with this tool of the devil. The MIA movement finally gave up when most of us got diseases, got old, got tired, got cynical, got dead while waiting for justice for our brothers-in-arms and medical treatment from the VA. Donald Trump knows the truth; I pray he puts John McCain on trial for treason and hangs him from the Washington monument.

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    • Replies: @gruff
    The film of the Forrestal fire clearly shows a rocket as the cause.
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  • […] John McCain And The POW Cover-Up […]

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  • […] “[H]is tasteless attack on John McCain” – Victor Davis Hanson, 9/1/15. McCain’s service to POW/MIAs here. […]

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  • Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Overall, a very interesting, albeit depressing, article. One minor correction if I may As an Air Force Communications Specialist who served in Viet Nam on three separate occasions throughout the years of ’67, ’68 and ’69, I can assure Sen. McCain DID NOT (emphasis added) enter, much less graduate, from the Air Force Academy, as alluded to in Marc Jeric’s 7/25/15 posting. Senator McCain did however attend the US Naval Academy.

    Jack Rush
    Scottsdale, Arizona

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  • […] is also the author of a “remarkable 8,000-word exposé”: “McCain and the POW Cover-Up.” Here follow the opening paragraphs. They provide a précis of the forensic evidence collected by […]

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  • […] The real John McCain treachery, killing the chances of POW/MIA’s left behind, is detailed in this long article that was released while he was running for President in 2008: http://www.unz.com/article/mccain-and-the-pow-cover-up/ […]

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  • […] is also the author of a “remarkable 8,000-word exposé”: “McCain and the POW Cover-Up.” Here follow the opening paragraphs. They provide a précis of the forensic evidence collected by […]

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  • […] How John McCain has covered up information about POWs left behind in Vietnam. […]

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  • […] John McCain and the POW Cover-Up : “The “war hero” candidate buried information about POWs left behind in Vietnam. John McCain, who has risen to political prominence on his image as a Vietnam POW war hero, has, inexplicably, worked very hard to hide from the public stunning information about American prisoners in Vietnam who, unlike him, didn’t return home.” […]

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  • Senators Mccain & Kerry worked hard together to stop the return of POW’s from Vietnam.
    Who better to front this then Mccain,
    a former POW who the Viet-comm dubbed “The signing canary.”
    Watch a documentary on this topic.

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  • Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    As far as I am concerned John McCain could NEVER convince me that this story about POW/MIA’s cover ups is not true. Any decent POW would have fought for the return of all POW and MIA’s until the last breath in his body! BTW, No I was not a POW, but all Nam Vets are brothers!

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  • […] is also the author of a “remarkable 8,000-word exposé”: “McCain and the POW Cover-Up.” Here follow the opening paragraphs. They provide a précis of the forensic evidence collected by […]

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  • Thank you for re-pubbing this. The POW-commission went over my political-head the first time around and fortunately someone I follow on Twitter posted a link to the wnd.com re-print a few days ago. This is truly heartbreaking. John McCain’s 15-minutes of “Thanks” for his “service” are way past up.

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  • Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    It’s not clear whether the taped confession McCain gave to his captors to avoid further torture has played a role in his postwar behavior in the Senate. That confession was played endlessly over the prison loudspeaker system at Hoa Lo—to try to break down other prisoners—and was broadcast over Hanoi’s state radio. Reportedly, he confessed to being a war criminal who had bombed civilian targets. The Pentagon has a copy of the confession but will not release it. Also, no outsider I know of has ever seen a non-redacted copy of the debriefing of McCain when he returned from captivity, which is classified but could be made public by McCain.
    Let me remember what I know about Senator McCain – the losing RINO in the elections of 2008 to the winner B. Hussein Obama, previously a street agitator for the ACORN thugs:
    1) He was a son of the notable Navy Admiral in the WW2; as such he was accepted in the Air Force Academy in spite of his low grades from high school; that in my book is called nepotism;
    2) In the academy he was at the bottom of the graduating class but passed due to his Admiral father;
    3) While in training he jumped and parachuted from 4 – FOUR – training planes for unknown reasons thus destroying those planes; apparently he got confused by the knobs and levers and panel lights;
    4) In Vietnam when his plane attracted North Vietnamese communist fire he abandoned the completely untouched war plane and parachuted into the enemy hands;
    5) The communists wanted to trade his name to Americans for substantial rewards – but McCain refused – that was his only true patriotic gesture;
    6) It’s not clear whether the taped confession McCain gave to his captors to avoid further torture has played a role in his postwar behavior in the Senate. That confession was played endlessly over the prison loudspeaker system at the prison —to try to break down other prisoners—and was broadcast over Hanoi’s state radio. Reportedly, he confessed to being a war criminal who had bombed civilian targets. The Pentagon has a copy of the confession but will not release it. Also, no outsider I know of has ever seen a non-redacted copy of the debriefing of McCain when he returned from captivity, which is classified but could be made public by McCain.
    7) In Congress McCain was known as a watcher of wind indicator and so voted Republican as often as Democrat;
    8) In the elections of 2008 he was just an incoherent moderate RINO trying to please everybody – and was swept by the Chicago vote fraud machine.
    Since then he has shown himself a low-IQ bloviating gasbag with no political program of his own except in voting 50-50 with his Republican colleagues. Just like that other low-IQ bloviating gasbag John Hanoi Kerry he just improvises his politics as the wind blows on any particular day. WAR HERO – hell no! McCain is the chairman of the Veterans Committee, and those criminal Veteran Administration scandals remain unaddressed. Just like Trump – I prefer our soldiers who did not surrender for no apparent reason. But at least he did not malign our soldiers like that traitor Hanoi Kerry did – after spending only 8 weeks patrolling the Mekong Delta while avoiding the enemy.

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  • @Anonymous
    I will not participate in meanness or innuendo. I am a Veteran and will speak truth. I remember when McCain was captured. My brothers and I watching on AFRTS and reading in the Stars and Stripes paper the traitor (1) lying on a gurney, (2) arm in a cast, (3) smoking a cigarette while being interviewed, knowing full well the cost to other GI's for getting those 3 things (at least).

    Shortly thereafter watching almost every one of McCain's F4 fighter squadron being shot down because of flight path, tactical and strategic information he gave his captors.

    Hearing and reading the things he said to our troops over the enemies radio systems just as the "Tokyo Roses" did in WWII.

    After the war watching with heartbreak as he used his political powers to block every attempt of our military, groups, families and even individuals to find and return POW's and MIA's through the 70's and 80's.

    Living through the Keating Five scandal and savings and loan tragedy, he was involved in, that nearly broke this country.

    Some of us are blessed with the ability to keenly remember things. Some of which you can't even see, hear or read anymore because truth has been "wiped" for those of vast power who are corrupt. Mr McCain willingly chose to serve the wrong gods. The cost to himself for what he has done I cannot imagine. May God have mercy on his soul.

    McInsane killed sailors on the Forrestal and went on to kill his squadron pilots, then condemn POWs MIAs to slow deaths and executions… he serves no gods, only Satan. His role in our government has been to send more of our young to death in service of zionist neocon wars. God will have no mercy on his soul.

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    • Replies: @anarchyst
    McCain got away with his antics because his daddy was an admiral.
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  • @tbraton
    "One of the commenters to Sussman’s blog alludes to a Rolling Stone article on McCain, but a click on the link revealed that the article is no longer available"

    I thought I would try a different route to locate the John McCain article in Rolling Stone by clicking on Rolling Stone and using their search engine. I found this link:
    http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-new-issue-of-rolling-stone-the-real-john-mccain-20081001 and it included a link to three articles on McCain, one of which was the one I was searching for, "Make Believe Maverick: The Real John McCain" by Tim Dickinson (not Dickerson). When I clicked on it, I got the following message, which was the same one I got earlier:"Sorry for the inconvenience, this page is not found." One more article down the memory hole, for unexplained reasons. Apparently, the article is from 2008 when McCain was running for President.

    I just came across a lengthy article in the Phoenix New Times dated March 25, 1999, which predates Col. Hackworth’s 2000 piece.

    http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/is-john-mccain-a-war-hero-6421192

    It must be kept in mind that a lot of people must have read the 1973 U.S. News first person account that appeared two months after McCain was released. (I didn’t until 2008.) Many of those who read the piece were Vietnam vets. For the next 25 years, a number of them were circulating accounts among themselves, convinced that McCain was no hero. Obviously, a lot of this material must have come to Hackworth’s attention, so the 2000 blockbuster piece had been percolating below the surface, generally unknown to most of us, for quite some time. There may be long articles predating the New Times piece, but so far it is the earliest one I have run across. I do find it interesting that a small paper like the Phoenix New Times can retain this 1999 piece in their computer, whereas a larger paper like Rolling Stone cannot retain a 2008 article in its computer. (Unless the article contained errors, like last winter’s UVA rape case story, and RS was forced to delete it.)

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  • Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @freeman
    I did a lot of research into the POW coverup back in the late 80's
    and had the chance to see mccain at a Republican rally about 1989.
    I asked him about what efforts were being made to bring the
    Vietnam POWs back home. He shuffled his feet, looked down and
    to the left, covered his mouth with his hand, changed the tone of
    his voice, mumbled that "there are no POWs left in Vietnam", looked
    at someone else, and changed the subject. In short, he showed multiple
    "tells" that indicate that a person is lying.
    He knows the truth.
    And it isn't what he tells the media.

    A friend of mine who was born in Saigon to a man who was a North Vietnamese General in charge of a lot of POW’s said her father would transport prisoners to different areas to be then sent on to Laos. At the time of the end of the war….ALL American POWs were NOT in Vietnam but were in Laos. Yes, the Vietnamese were telling the truth…. but not telling the truth about their wereabouts. She would have many talks with her father who was a very very cruel man who drank a lot and beat her and her mother up all the time.

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  • @tbraton
    I just ran across a September 2008 blog from Barry Sussman (former Washington Post editor) re media coverage of McCain's war record.
    http://www.niemanwatchdog.org/blog/2008/09/questions-for-and-about-mccain/ He makes the following observations, while citing Mr. Schanberg's article:

    "McCain probably needn’t worry–there has been no pressure by the news media to examine these issues or by political opponents to push him on them. Instead, the pressure, from people like keynote convention speaker Fred Thompson, is in the opposite direction—consisting of bullying comments likely to have a chilling effect on reporters and editors.

    The mainstream press has done numerous profiles on McCain in print and on TV but none that I know of dwell on his record as a pilot or his Senate activity against releasing POW files.

    As for his five and a half years as a POW himself, that’s obviously a sensitive area. Who would want to be the first to question that? Except they wouldn’t be the first. They’d only be the first in the MSM in 2008."

    - See more at: http://www.niemanwatchdog.org/blog/2008/09/questions-for-and-about-mccain/#sthash.0LeCVg95.dpuf

    One of the commenters to Sussman's blog alludes to a Rolling Stone article on McCain, but a click on the link revealed that the article is no longer available:
    "Sal says:
    October 12th, 2008 at 1:12 pm |
    Tim Dickerson in Rolling Stone did a bang-up job writing about McCain’s life and work:

    http://www.rollingstone.com/news/coverstory/make_believe_maverick "

    “One of the commenters to Sussman’s blog alludes to a Rolling Stone article on McCain, but a click on the link revealed that the article is no longer available”

    I thought I would try a different route to locate the John McCain article in Rolling Stone by clicking on Rolling Stone and using their search engine. I found this link:
    http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-new-issue-of-rolling-stone-the-real-john-mccain-20081001 and it included a link to three articles on McCain, one of which was the one I was searching for, “Make Believe Maverick: The Real John McCain” by Tim Dickinson (not Dickerson). When I clicked on it, I got the following message, which was the same one I got earlier:”Sorry for the inconvenience, this page is not found.” One more article down the memory hole, for unexplained reasons. Apparently, the article is from 2008 when McCain was running for President.

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    • Replies: @tbraton
    I just came across a lengthy article in the Phoenix New Times dated March 25, 1999, which predates Col. Hackworth's 2000 piece.
    http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/is-john-mccain-a-war-hero-6421192

    It must be kept in mind that a lot of people must have read the 1973 U.S. News first person account that appeared two months after McCain was released. (I didn't until 2008.) Many of those who read the piece were Vietnam vets. For the next 25 years, a number of them were circulating accounts among themselves, convinced that McCain was no hero. Obviously, a lot of this material must have come to Hackworth's attention, so the 2000 blockbuster piece had been percolating below the surface, generally unknown to most of us, for quite some time. There may be long articles predating the New Times piece, but so far it is the earliest one I have run across. I do find it interesting that a small paper like the Phoenix New Times can retain this 1999 piece in their computer, whereas a larger paper like Rolling Stone cannot retain a 2008 article in its computer. (Unless the article contained errors, like last winter's UVA rape case story, and RS was forced to delete it.)
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  • @tbraton
    The blogger, Ric Ricland, followed up in the same thread with another comment:

    "Ric Ricland
    Aug 16, 2008
    McCain has two problems with the 1973 self-report he gave to win his Silver Star.

    First, Department of Defense documents have surfaced that show he gave Soviet agents classified military information during the period his Silver Star citation says he refused to give such information under torture.
    powmccain.org

    Second, he states in his autobiography he WASN'T tortured during the period of time of the citation.

    From these two points we can only conclude one thing: he gave up military information to the Soviet agents WITHOUT being tortured; that is, the acts of "extraordinary heroism" he self-reported to get his Silver Star never happened, at least during the time cited in his Silver Star narrative.

    That's all I've tried to explain to the idiot yahoos in this forum -- that by his own words as laid out in his 1999 autobiography, "Faith of My Fathers" McCain contradicts the story he told Navy brass 23 years earlier to get his Silver Star.

    ricland"

    Notice that the blogger goes from first stating that McCain made no claim to being tortured while in the hospital (just like his 1973 U.S. News account) to claiming that his autobiography affirmatively states that he wasn't tortured at that time. Subtle difference, I know, but an important distinction that can't be resolved without reading his autobiography.

    I just ran across a September 2008 blog from Barry Sussman (former Washington Post editor) re media coverage of McCain’s war record.
    http://www.niemanwatchdog.org/blog/2008/09/questions-for-and-about-mccain/ He makes the following observations, while citing Mr. Schanberg’s article:

    “McCain probably needn’t worry–there has been no pressure by the news media to examine these issues or by political opponents to push him on them. Instead, the pressure, from people like keynote convention speaker Fred Thompson, is in the opposite direction—consisting of bullying comments likely to have a chilling effect on reporters and editors.

    The mainstream press has done numerous profiles on McCain in print and on TV but none that I know of dwell on his record as a pilot or his Senate activity against releasing POW files.

    As for his five and a half years as a POW himself, that’s obviously a sensitive area. Who would want to be the first to question that? Except they wouldn’t be the first. They’d only be the first in the MSM in 2008.”

    - See more at: http://www.niemanwatchdog.org/blog/2008/09/questions-for-and-about-mccain/#sthash.0LeCVg95.dpuf

    One of the commenters to Sussman’s blog alludes to a Rolling Stone article on McCain, but a click on the link revealed that the article is no longer available:
    “Sal says:
    October 12th, 2008 at 1:12 pm |
    Tim Dickerson in Rolling Stone did a bang-up job writing about McCain’s life and work:

    http://www.rollingstone.com/news/coverstory/make_believe_maverick

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    • Replies: @tbraton
    "One of the commenters to Sussman’s blog alludes to a Rolling Stone article on McCain, but a click on the link revealed that the article is no longer available"

    I thought I would try a different route to locate the John McCain article in Rolling Stone by clicking on Rolling Stone and using their search engine. I found this link:
    http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-new-issue-of-rolling-stone-the-real-john-mccain-20081001 and it included a link to three articles on McCain, one of which was the one I was searching for, "Make Believe Maverick: The Real John McCain" by Tim Dickinson (not Dickerson). When I clicked on it, I got the following message, which was the same one I got earlier:"Sorry for the inconvenience, this page is not found." One more article down the memory hole, for unexplained reasons. Apparently, the article is from 2008 when McCain was running for President.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @tbraton
    I tried Googling Hackworth + McCain + Vietnam and came up with no MSM articles exploring McCain's war record, but I did come across this blog from 2008:

    " Aug 15, 2008
    Kenhunt wrote:
    It might improve my comprehension, Bill, if you can provide a credible example (URL/site) wherein he used his silver star to "beat down, humiliate, and destroy" someone who got in his way. Can you do that, Hillary? Again for you to claim he was not tortured lowers your own character to the bottom rung, Teddy. Do you know of any of the 651 prisoners who returned alive who claim McCain was not tortured, Barney?
    Come on, you are just some thick-headed Democrat still moping because your hero, Kerry, got swiftboated, isn't that right, Mr. Edwards!.


    Let's get specific.

    In his autobiography McCain makes no claim to being tortured while in the hospital.

    The problem with this is that it was while he was in the hospital he gave detailed military information to Soviet agents.

    I have the Department of Defense transcript of this interview here: powmccain.org [I clicked on and got no response.]

    Therefore, since McCain self-reported his supposed resistance to giving military information while under torture to get his Silver Star, he told Navy brass two lies: 1. that he was tortured while in the hospital, and 2. he did not give up military information while being tortured.

    The fact that McCain may have been tortured at a later date is not relevant to the period covered in the Silver Star citation.

    Again, by his own admission (in his autobiography) he states he was not tortured during the period of captivity his Silver Star citation says he was.

    This contradiction is objective fact.

    This means his self-reporting of his suppose deeds of "extraordinary heroism" is fraudulent.

    This means he lied to get his Silver Star and now that the lie is laid bear, his Silver Star should be revoked.

    ricland" http://m.topix.com/forum/us/TQGDCMQ3QOFGKVEEG/p45

    I think the reference to McCain's autobiography is interesting. I never read it.

    The blogger, Ric Ricland, followed up in the same thread with another comment:

    “Ric Ricland
    Aug 16, 2008
    McCain has two problems with the 1973 self-report he gave to win his Silver Star.

    First, Department of Defense documents have surfaced that show he gave Soviet agents classified military information during the period his Silver Star citation says he refused to give such information under torture.
    powmccain.org

    Second, he states in his autobiography he WASN’T tortured during the period of time of the citation.

    From these two points we can only conclude one thing: he gave up military information to the Soviet agents WITHOUT being tortured; that is, the acts of “extraordinary heroism” he self-reported to get his Silver Star never happened, at least during the time cited in his Silver Star narrative.

    That’s all I’ve tried to explain to the idiot yahoos in this forum — that by his own words as laid out in his 1999 autobiography, “Faith of My Fathers” McCain contradicts the story he told Navy brass 23 years earlier to get his Silver Star.

    ricland”

    Notice that the blogger goes from first stating that McCain made no claim to being tortured while in the hospital (just like his 1973 U.S. News account) to claiming that his autobiography affirmatively states that he wasn’t tortured at that time. Subtle difference, I know, but an important distinction that can’t be resolved without reading his autobiography.

    Read More
    • Replies: @tbraton
    I just ran across a September 2008 blog from Barry Sussman (former Washington Post editor) re media coverage of McCain's war record.
    http://www.niemanwatchdog.org/blog/2008/09/questions-for-and-about-mccain/ He makes the following observations, while citing Mr. Schanberg's article:

    "McCain probably needn’t worry–there has been no pressure by the news media to examine these issues or by political opponents to push him on them. Instead, the pressure, from people like keynote convention speaker Fred Thompson, is in the opposite direction—consisting of bullying comments likely to have a chilling effect on reporters and editors.

    The mainstream press has done numerous profiles on McCain in print and on TV but none that I know of dwell on his record as a pilot or his Senate activity against releasing POW files.

    As for his five and a half years as a POW himself, that’s obviously a sensitive area. Who would want to be the first to question that? Except they wouldn’t be the first. They’d only be the first in the MSM in 2008."

    - See more at: http://www.niemanwatchdog.org/blog/2008/09/questions-for-and-about-mccain/#sthash.0LeCVg95.dpuf

    One of the commenters to Sussman's blog alludes to a Rolling Stone article on McCain, but a click on the link revealed that the article is no longer available:
    "Sal says:
    October 12th, 2008 at 1:12 pm |
    Tim Dickerson in Rolling Stone did a bang-up job writing about McCain’s life and work:

    http://www.rollingstone.com/news/coverstory/make_believe_maverick "
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @tbraton
    "Has this remark of his, ever been verified by any of our hard hitting reporters of that era?
    Can it even be verified?"

    Good questions. In light of the fact that no "hard hitting reporter" bothered to investigate the clear discrepancy between his 1973 U.S. News account and his Silver Star citation, as far as I know, I think it's safe to say that the answer to the first question is clearly "no." As far as I know, no reporter bothered to pick up that discrepancy even after highly decorated war veteran Col. Hackworth raised it in 2000. But then McCain was a MSM favorite and remained so until he won the Republican nomination in 2008. And, furthermore, in 1973, the hard hitting reporters were starting to pick up on the developing Watergate story, which had started in early summer 1972.

    As far as your second question, a good start would be to ask McCain himself to identify the airman who died from a broken leg. Even at this late date, I would think that it would not take much investigating to track down airmen who had been involved in such an accident between the time McCain graduated from the Naval Academy and the time he got shot down over North Vietnam. After all, we do have detailed records of every plane lost by McCain in his glorious flying career. BTW I recall reading that McCain never flew again after retiring from the Navy. At least he had the good sense to judge an incompetent pilot.

    I tried Googling Hackworth + McCain + Vietnam and came up with no MSM articles exploring McCain’s war record, but I did come across this blog from 2008:

    ” Aug 15, 2008
    Kenhunt wrote:
    It might improve my comprehension, Bill, if you can provide a credible example (URL/site) wherein he used his silver star to “beat down, humiliate, and destroy” someone who got in his way. Can you do that, Hillary? Again for you to claim he was not tortured lowers your own character to the bottom rung, Teddy. Do you know of any of the 651 prisoners who returned alive who claim McCain was not tortured, Barney?
    Come on, you are just some thick-headed Democrat still moping because your hero, Kerry, got swiftboated, isn’t that right, Mr. Edwards!.

    Let’s get specific.

    In his autobiography McCain makes no claim to being tortured while in the hospital.

    The problem with this is that it was while he was in the hospital he gave detailed military information to Soviet agents.

    I have the Department of Defense transcript of this interview here: powmccain.org [I clicked on and got no response.]

    Therefore, since McCain self-reported his supposed resistance to giving military information while under torture to get his Silver Star, he told Navy brass two lies: 1. that he was tortured while in the hospital, and 2. he did not give up military information while being tortured.

    The fact that McCain may have been tortured at a later date is not relevant to the period covered in the Silver Star citation.

    Again, by his own admission (in his autobiography) he states he was not tortured during the period of captivity his Silver Star citation says he was.

    This contradiction is objective fact.

    This means his self-reporting of his suppose deeds of “extraordinary heroism” is fraudulent.

    This means he lied to get his Silver Star and now that the lie is laid bear, his Silver Star should be revoked.

    ricland” http://m.topix.com/forum/us/TQGDCMQ3QOFGKVEEG/p45

    I think the reference to McCain’s autobiography is interesting. I never read it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @tbraton
    The blogger, Ric Ricland, followed up in the same thread with another comment:

    "Ric Ricland
    Aug 16, 2008
    McCain has two problems with the 1973 self-report he gave to win his Silver Star.

    First, Department of Defense documents have surfaced that show he gave Soviet agents classified military information during the period his Silver Star citation says he refused to give such information under torture.
    powmccain.org

    Second, he states in his autobiography he WASN'T tortured during the period of time of the citation.

    From these two points we can only conclude one thing: he gave up military information to the Soviet agents WITHOUT being tortured; that is, the acts of "extraordinary heroism" he self-reported to get his Silver Star never happened, at least during the time cited in his Silver Star narrative.

    That's all I've tried to explain to the idiot yahoos in this forum -- that by his own words as laid out in his 1999 autobiography, "Faith of My Fathers" McCain contradicts the story he told Navy brass 23 years earlier to get his Silver Star.

    ricland"

    Notice that the blogger goes from first stating that McCain made no claim to being tortured while in the hospital (just like his 1973 U.S. News account) to claiming that his autobiography affirmatively states that he wasn't tortured at that time. Subtle difference, I know, but an important distinction that can't be resolved without reading his autobiography.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @HLMunchkin
    The following statement by McCain is how he justified volunteering information to his captors.

    'I remembered that when I was a flying instructor a fellow had ejected from his plane and broken his thigh. He had gone into shock, the blood had pooled in his leg, and he died, which came as quite a surprise to us—a man dying of a broken leg. Then I realized that a very similar thing was happening to me'.

    Has this remark of his, ever been verified by any of our hard hitting reporters of that era?
    Can it even be verified?

    “Has this remark of his, ever been verified by any of our hard hitting reporters of that era?
    Can it even be verified?”

    Good questions. In light of the fact that no “hard hitting reporter” bothered to investigate the clear discrepancy between his 1973 U.S. News account and his Silver Star citation, as far as I know, I think it’s safe to say that the answer to the first question is clearly “no.” As far as I know, no reporter bothered to pick up that discrepancy even after highly decorated war veteran Col. Hackworth raised it in 2000. But then McCain was a MSM favorite and remained so until he won the Republican nomination in 2008. And, furthermore, in 1973, the hard hitting reporters were starting to pick up on the developing Watergate story, which had started in early summer 1972.

    As far as your second question, a good start would be to ask McCain himself to identify the airman who died from a broken leg. Even at this late date, I would think that it would not take much investigating to track down airmen who had been involved in such an accident between the time McCain graduated from the Naval Academy and the time he got shot down over North Vietnam. After all, we do have detailed records of every plane lost by McCain in his glorious flying career. BTW I recall reading that McCain never flew again after retiring from the Navy. At least he had the good sense to judge an incompetent pilot.

    Read More
    • Replies: @tbraton
    I tried Googling Hackworth + McCain + Vietnam and came up with no MSM articles exploring McCain's war record, but I did come across this blog from 2008:

    " Aug 15, 2008
    Kenhunt wrote:
    It might improve my comprehension, Bill, if you can provide a credible example (URL/site) wherein he used his silver star to "beat down, humiliate, and destroy" someone who got in his way. Can you do that, Hillary? Again for you to claim he was not tortured lowers your own character to the bottom rung, Teddy. Do you know of any of the 651 prisoners who returned alive who claim McCain was not tortured, Barney?
    Come on, you are just some thick-headed Democrat still moping because your hero, Kerry, got swiftboated, isn't that right, Mr. Edwards!.


    Let's get specific.

    In his autobiography McCain makes no claim to being tortured while in the hospital.

    The problem with this is that it was while he was in the hospital he gave detailed military information to Soviet agents.

    I have the Department of Defense transcript of this interview here: powmccain.org [I clicked on and got no response.]

    Therefore, since McCain self-reported his supposed resistance to giving military information while under torture to get his Silver Star, he told Navy brass two lies: 1. that he was tortured while in the hospital, and 2. he did not give up military information while being tortured.

    The fact that McCain may have been tortured at a later date is not relevant to the period covered in the Silver Star citation.

    Again, by his own admission (in his autobiography) he states he was not tortured during the period of captivity his Silver Star citation says he was.

    This contradiction is objective fact.

    This means his self-reporting of his suppose deeds of "extraordinary heroism" is fraudulent.

    This means he lied to get his Silver Star and now that the lie is laid bear, his Silver Star should be revoked.

    ricland" http://m.topix.com/forum/us/TQGDCMQ3QOFGKVEEG/p45

    I think the reference to McCain's autobiography is interesting. I never read it.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • I just read all the reports, I find that I have truly back then , didn’t see McCain for what he is. I disgusted of my self to even trusting him. And I voted for him for President. I feel sick. And then to read He lied about the other POW’s . God help us. First Kerry and now McCain what the hell do we have in the congress and Senate. First class corruption. Kick them all out. I want this to get out and no more cover ups. And now we have Satanic obama at the helm. I also have been reading about the Muslim Brotherhood and what they plan for our country . This has all got to stop. We have to kick them all out and start over, with trust worthy men.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Gee Barbara, I wonder where you get your information? Obama surely isn't the greatest leader, mostly thanks to a horrific stonewalling congress, but he surely isn't Satanic. Check your sources as you should have done with McCain. http://www.unz.com
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @tbraton
    " I did stress that the citation for his Silver Star conflicts with McCain’s own personal account published in U.S. News soon after his release of events that occurred after he was shot down. One of the two accounts has to be false."

    I don't know whether John McCain provided the U.S. Navy with the account of events that appears in his Silver Star citation, but he did accept the award of the Silver Star and surely either read or heard the words contained in the citation. Even if the citation were manufactured out of whole cloth by some functionary in the U.S. Navy, McCain's acceptance of the Silver Star constituted implied acceptance of the account set forth in the citation, as did his flaunting of his "war hero" status throughout his political career. And, as I have made clear repeatedly, the account set forth in the Silver Star citation is totally inconsistent with the first person account he gave to U.S. News upon his release and return to the States.

    If pressed on the McCain issue at the debates, especially if pressed by McCain's close buddy Lindsey Graham (assuming he qualifies for the debate), here's a suggestion for Trump. He can simply ask Graham (or another candidate) which account is true: the Silver Star citation or the first person account in the 1973 U.S. News magazine? They both can't be true, and the latter makes it clear that McCain was not tortured during the first months of captivity, which directly contradicts the Silver Star citation, upon which his reputation as a "war hero" rests. That would have the advantage of killing two "wacko birds" with one stone: McCain, who never met a war he didn't like, and Lindsey Graham, who has equal bellicose inclinations. Trump, to his credit, has made it clear that he correctly thinks the Iraq War was a disaster for the U.S., and that counts for something even if he initially supported the war, like the great majority of Americans.

    The following statement by McCain is how he justified volunteering information to his captors.

    ‘I remembered that when I was a flying instructor a fellow had ejected from his plane and broken his thigh. He had gone into shock, the blood had pooled in his leg, and he died, which came as quite a surprise to us—a man dying of a broken leg. Then I realized that a very similar thing was happening to me’.

    Has this remark of his, ever been verified by any of our hard hitting reporters of that era?
    Can it even be verified?

    Read More
    • Replies: @tbraton
    "Has this remark of his, ever been verified by any of our hard hitting reporters of that era?
    Can it even be verified?"

    Good questions. In light of the fact that no "hard hitting reporter" bothered to investigate the clear discrepancy between his 1973 U.S. News account and his Silver Star citation, as far as I know, I think it's safe to say that the answer to the first question is clearly "no." As far as I know, no reporter bothered to pick up that discrepancy even after highly decorated war veteran Col. Hackworth raised it in 2000. But then McCain was a MSM favorite and remained so until he won the Republican nomination in 2008. And, furthermore, in 1973, the hard hitting reporters were starting to pick up on the developing Watergate story, which had started in early summer 1972.

    As far as your second question, a good start would be to ask McCain himself to identify the airman who died from a broken leg. Even at this late date, I would think that it would not take much investigating to track down airmen who had been involved in such an accident between the time McCain graduated from the Naval Academy and the time he got shot down over North Vietnam. After all, we do have detailed records of every plane lost by McCain in his glorious flying career. BTW I recall reading that McCain never flew again after retiring from the Navy. At least he had the good sense to judge an incompetent pilot.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • ” I did stress that the citation for his Silver Star conflicts with McCain’s own personal account published in U.S. News soon after his release of events that occurred after he was shot down. One of the two accounts has to be false.”

    I don’t know whether John McCain provided the U.S. Navy with the account of events that appears in his Silver Star citation, but he did accept the award of the Silver Star and surely either read or heard the words contained in the citation. Even if the citation were manufactured out of whole cloth by some functionary in the U.S. Navy, McCain’s acceptance of the Silver Star constituted implied acceptance of the account set forth in the citation, as did his flaunting of his “war hero” status throughout his political career. And, as I have made clear repeatedly, the account set forth in the Silver Star citation is totally inconsistent with the first person account he gave to U.S. News upon his release and return to the States.

    If pressed on the McCain issue at the debates, especially if pressed by McCain’s close buddy Lindsey Graham (assuming he qualifies for the debate), here’s a suggestion for Trump. He can simply ask Graham (or another candidate) which account is true: the Silver Star citation or the first person account in the 1973 U.S. News magazine? They both can’t be true, and the latter makes it clear that McCain was not tortured during the first months of captivity, which directly contradicts the Silver Star citation, upon which his reputation as a “war hero” rests. That would have the advantage of killing two “wacko birds” with one stone: McCain, who never met a war he didn’t like, and Lindsey Graham, who has equal bellicose inclinations. Trump, to his credit, has made it clear that he correctly thinks the Iraq War was a disaster for the U.S., and that counts for something even if he initially supported the war, like the great majority of Americans.

    Read More
    • Replies: @HLMunchkin
    The following statement by McCain is how he justified volunteering information to his captors.

    'I remembered that when I was a flying instructor a fellow had ejected from his plane and broken his thigh. He had gone into shock, the blood had pooled in his leg, and he died, which came as quite a surprise to us—a man dying of a broken leg. Then I realized that a very similar thing was happening to me'.

    Has this remark of his, ever been verified by any of our hard hitting reporters of that era?
    Can it even be verified?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • […] of The American Conservative (July 1, 2010, cover story) and currently as editor-in-chief of The Unz Review – Mr. Unz has kept Schanberg’s voluminously sourced and criminally underexposed exposé […]

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @tbraton
    About 7 years ago, when I first started looking closely into McCain's story as he was a candidate for President of the U.S., I read the entire first person account of John McCain that I discovered in the 1973 edition of U.S. News & World Report that was reposted online on January 28, 2008. [I started posting on Yahoo Finance in early 2003 and posted regularly there through 2009. I first started posting on The American Conservative in early 2010 and reposted there some of the things I had previously posted on Yahoo Finance message boards.] Piqued by Ron Unz's recent piece on McCain, I recently went back and reread the first few paragraphs to refresh my memory. I wish I had reread more, as I just did, for I would have rediscovered a lot more that my memory failed to retain over the years. Keep in mind that McCain was shot down on October 26, 1967, and, by his own admission in U.S. News, he brought up on his own just four days later (the end of October, 1967) his offer to provide military information to the North Vietnamese in exchange for medical care for his various injuries. That resulted in his being taken to a hospital where medical care of sorts was given to him. There is no mention in his account that he was tortured during the time he was in the hospital. He describes in detail the somewhat incompetent medical care he received, but his account states:

    "For the next three or four days [following his crash and rescue], I lapsed from conscious to unconsciousness. During this time, I was taken out to interrogation—which we called a "quiz"—several times. That's when I was hit with all sorts of war-criminal charges. This started on the first day. I refused to give them anything except my name, rank, serial number and date of birth. They beat me around a little bit. I was in such bad shape that when they hit me it would knock me unconscious. They kept saying, "You will not receive any medical treatment until you talk."

    "I didn't believe this. I thought that if I just held out, that they'd take me to the hospital. I was fed small amounts of food by the guard and also allowed to drink some water. I was able to hold the water down, but I kept vomiting the food.

    "They wanted military rather than political information at this time. Every time they asked me something, I'd just give my name, rank and serial number and date of birth.

    "I think it was on the fourth day that two guards came in, instead of one. One of them pulled back the blanket to show the other guard my injury. I looked at my knee. It was about the size, shape and color of a football. I remembered that when I was a flying instructor a fellow had ejected from his plane and broken his thigh. He had gone into shock, the blood had pooled in his leg, and he died, which came as quite a surprise to us—a man dying of a broken leg. Then I realized that a very similar thing was happening to me.

    "When I saw it, I said to the guard, "O.K., get the officer." An officer came in after a few minutes. It was the man that we came to know very well as "The Bug." He was a psychotic torturer, one of the worst fiends that we had to deal with. I said, "O.K., I'll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital." He left and came back with a doctor, a guy that we called "Zorba," who was completely incompetent. He squatted down, took my pulse. He did not speak English, but shook his head and jabbered to "The Bug." I asked, "Are you going to take me to the hospital?" "The Bug" replied, "It's too late." I said, "If you take me to the hospital, I'll get well."
    * * * *
    "I was in the hospital about six weeks, then was taken to a camp in Hanoi that we called "The Plantation." This was in late December, 1967. I was put in a cell with two other men, George Day and Norris Overly, both Air Force majors. I was on a stretcher, my leg was stiff and I was still in a chest cast that I kept for about two months. I was down to about 100 pounds from my normal weight of 155.

    "I was told later on by Major Day that they didn't expect me to live a week. I was unable to sit up. I was sleeping about 18 hours, 20 hours a day. They had to do everything for me. They were allowed to get a bucket of water and wash me off occasionally. They fed me and took fine care of me, and I recovered very rapidly.

    "We moved to another room just after Christmas. In early February, 1968, Overly was taken out of our room and released, along with David Matheny and John Black. They were the first three POW's to be released by the North Vietnamese. I understand they had instructions, once home, to say nothing about treatment, so as not to jeopardize those of us still in captivity.
    * * * *
    "As soon as I was able to walk, which was in March of 1968, Day was moved out.

    "I remained in solitary confinement from that time on for more than two years. I was not allowed to see or talk to or communicate with any of my fellow prisoners.

    * * * *
    "From the time that Overly and Day left me—Overly left in February of 1968, Day left in March—my treatment was basically good. I would get caught communicating, talking to guys through the wall, tapping—that kind of stuff, and they'd just say, "Tsk, tsk; no, no." Really, I thought things were not too bad.

    "Then, about June 15, 1968, I was taken up one night to the interrogation room. "The Cat" and another man that we called "The Rabbit" were there. "The Rabbit" spoke very good English.
    * * * *
    "I really didn't know what to think, because I had been having these other interrogations in which I had refused to co-operate. It was not hard because they were not torturing me at this time. They just told me I'd never go home and I was going to be tried as a war criminal. That was their constant theme for many months.
    * * * *
    "On the morning of the Fourth of July, 1968, which happened to be the same day that my father took over as commander in chief of U. S. Forces in the Pacific, I was led into another quiz room.
    * * * *
    "But the primary thing I considered was that I had no right to go ahead of men like Alvarez, who had been there three years before I "got killed"—that's what we say instead of "before I got shot down," because in a way becoming a prisoner in North Vietnam was like being killed.

    "About a month and a half later, when the three men who were selected for release had reached America, I was set up for some very severe treatment which lasted for the next year and a half. [Note: a "month and a half" after July 4, 1968 would mean approximately August 20, 1968.]
    * * * *
    "To get back to the story: They took me out of my room to "Slopehead," who said, "You have violated all the camp regulations. You're a black criminal. You must confess your crimes." I said that I wouldn't do that, and he asked, "Why are you so disrespectful of guards?" I answered, "Because the guards treat me like an animal."

    "When I said that, the guards, who were all in the room—about 10 of them—really laid into me. They bounced me from pillar to post, kicking and laughing and scratching. After a few hours of that, ropes were put on me and I sat that night bound with ropes. Then I was taken to a small room. For punishment they would almost always take you to another room where you didn't have a mosquito net or a bed or any clothes. For the next four days, I was beaten every two to three hours by different guards. My left arm was broken again and my ribs were cracked.
    * * * *
    "So this was a period of repeated, severe treatment. It lasted until around October of '69.
    * * * *
    "That was a long, difficult summer. Then suddenly, in October, 1969, there were drastic changes around the camp. The torture stopped. [Note: from August 20, 1968 noted above until October 1969 is a little more than one year.]
    * * * *
    "In 1969, after the three guys who were released went back to the U. S. and told about the brutality in the POW camps, President Nixon gave the green light to publicizing this fact. It brought a drastic change in our treatment. And I thank God for it, because if it hadn't been for that a lot of us would never have returned. . . ."

    The personal account of John McCain in early 1973 in U.S. News totally contradicts the citation for the Silver Star he received as a result of being a POW in North Vietnam. The citation specifically cites the "torture" he was subjected to during his first month and a half in captivity, whereas his personal account mentions no torture during that period but rather the medical treatment he was given from the end of October 1967 until his release in late December 1967. By his own admission, he was placed in solitary confinement for two years from the time that the last of his first two roommates left in March 1968 and he concedes that his treatment was "pretty good." During that two-year period of solitary confinement, he was "not allowed to see or talk to or communicate with any of my fellow prisoners." So it appears that the only witness to the torture he claims he was subjected to beginning in the late summer of 1968 was John McCain himself. In essence, he was the source of two different accounts which are totally inconsistent with each other. Both accounts cannot be true. McCain was lying either to the readers of U.S. News (the first public account) or to the military men who prepared his Silver Star citation.

    BTW we know from the sad case of Pat Tillman that the military is not above fabricating citations for prestigious medals. That admirable patriot had forsaken a lucrative career in the NFL to enlist after 9/11, a decision which can be admired even if one questions the sense of it. He was killed as a result of "friendly fire" in Afghanistan, yet, he was, nevertheless, awarded a posthumous Silver Star for engaging with the enemy, an award that demeaned a very good man. The citation for his medal was pure fiction concocted by some bureaucrat in the military trying to garner some favorable publicity for our military.

    I just went back and reread the late Col. David Hackworth’s account written in 2000 when McCain was running for President. Col. Hackworth made this important point re McCain’s Silver Star, which I should have included in my prior post:

    “Accounts by McCain and other writers tell of the horror he endured:
    relentlessly beatings, torture, broken limbs.

    All inflicted during savage interrogations.

    Yet no other POW was a witness to these accounts.

    A former POW says “No man witnessed another man during interrogations…
    We relied on each other to tell the truth when a man was returned to
    his cell.”

    The U.S. Navy says two eyewitnesses are required for any award of
    heroism
    .

    But for the valor awards McCain received, there are no eyewitnesses,
    less himself and his captors.” https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/talk.politics.misc/F0cLkpJe4BM

    I did make the same point that only John McCain offered testimony about his exploits which led to the prestigious medal, but I omitted to say that the U.S. Navy requires “two eyewitnesses” to justify “any award of heroism.” (I am not certain whether those “two eyewitnesses” must be other than the proposed medal recipient, but, even if one of the eyewitnesses can be the medal recipient, McCain clearly failed that test as well since there were no other witnesses. The word “eyewitness” seems to imply someone other than the perpetrator of the deed.) I did stress that the citation for his Silver Star conflicts with McCain’s own personal account published in U.S. News soon after his release of events that occurred after he was shot down. One of the two accounts has to be false.

    P.S.—The opponents of John Kerry during the 2004 campaign for President raised the same objection to Kerry’s Silver Star. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1128562/posts (“The reason I say it places his officers on the hot seat is because they were very aware of the criteria required for the recommendation and approval of the Silver Star. There has to be at least two witness reports; there has to be a after-action report. There is no after-action report for the February 28, 1969 engagement in the spot reports for the months of February and March 1969 released to the public by Senator Kerry.”)

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  • […] 1 – Report one. 2 – Report two. 3 – Report three. […]

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  • John McCain is a classic Trojan horse. Period.

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  • […] 1 – Report one. 2 – Report two. 3 – Report three. […]

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  • @tbraton
    What you say doesn't surprise me. Your response is just further confirmation of Ron Unz's general thesis about "American Pravda."

    With respect to the specific topic of whether John McCain was a "war hero," I am going to take the liberty of repeating what he himself said in the long first person account published by U.S. News & World Report back in 1973 shortly after his release by the North Vietnamese:

    “I think it was on the fourth day that two guards came in, instead of one. One of them pulled back the blanket to show the other guard my injury. I looked at my knee. It was about the size, shape and color of a football. I remembered that when I was a flying instructor a fellow had ejected from his plane and broken his thigh. He had gone into shock, the blood had pooled in his leg, and he died, which came as quite a surprise to us—a man dying of a broken leg. Then I realized that a very similar thing was happening to me.

    “When I saw it, I said to the guard, “O.K., get the officer.” An officer came in after a few minutes. It was the man that we came to know very well as “The Bug.” He was a psychotic torturer, one of the worst fiends that we had to deal with. I said, “O.K., I’ll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital.” He left and came back with a doctor, a guy that we called “Zorba,” who was completely incompetent. He squatted down, took my pulse. He did not speak English, but shook his head and jabbered to “The Bug.” I asked, “Are you going to take me to the hospital?” “The Bug” replied, “It’s too late.” I said, “If you take me to the hospital, I’ll get well.” ”

    I contend that his own admission in 1973 is totally inconsistent with his later citation for the Silver Star which basically referred to his heroic resistance to his captors in the first two months of his captivity. To quote from my earlier post, "According to one press account, “McCain was awarded a Silver Star Medal for resisting “extreme mental and physical cruelties” inflicted upon him by his captors from late October to early December 1967, the early months of his captivity, according to the citation." Donald Trump has simply challenged John McCain's status as a war hero, but he showed great restraint in not going further.

    About 7 years ago, when I first started looking closely into McCain’s story as he was a candidate for President of the U.S., I read the entire first person account of John McCain that I discovered in the 1973 edition of U.S. News & World Report that was reposted online on January 28, 2008. [I started posting on Yahoo Finance in early 2003 and posted regularly there through 2009. I first started posting on The American Conservative in early 2010 and reposted there some of the things I had previously posted on Yahoo Finance message boards.] Piqued by Ron Unz’s recent piece on McCain, I recently went back and reread the first few paragraphs to refresh my memory. I wish I had reread more, as I just did, for I would have rediscovered a lot more that my memory failed to retain over the years. Keep in mind that McCain was shot down on October 26, 1967, and, by his own admission in U.S. News, he brought up on his own just four days later (the end of October, 1967) his offer to provide military information to the North Vietnamese in exchange for medical care for his various injuries. That resulted in his being taken to a hospital where medical care of sorts was given to him. There is no mention in his account that he was tortured during the time he was in the hospital. He describes in detail the somewhat incompetent medical care he received, but his account states:

    “For the next three or four days [following his crash and rescue], I lapsed from conscious to unconsciousness. During this time, I was taken out to interrogation—which we called a “quiz”—several times. That’s when I was hit with all sorts of war-criminal charges. This started on the first day. I refused to give them anything except my name, rank, serial number and date of birth. They beat me around a little bit. I was in such bad shape that when they hit me it would knock me unconscious. They kept saying, “You will not receive any medical treatment until you talk.”

    “I didn’t believe this. I thought that if I just held out, that they’d take me to the hospital. I was fed small amounts of food by the guard and also allowed to drink some water. I was able to hold the water down, but I kept vomiting the food.

    “They wanted military rather than political information at this time. Every time they asked me something, I’d just give my name, rank and serial number and date of birth.

    “I think it was on the fourth day that two guards came in, instead of one. One of them pulled back the blanket to show the other guard my injury. I looked at my knee. It was about the size, shape and color of a football. I remembered that when I was a flying instructor a fellow had ejected from his plane and broken his thigh. He had gone into shock, the blood had pooled in his leg, and he died, which came as quite a surprise to us—a man dying of a broken leg. Then I realized that a very similar thing was happening to me.

    “When I saw it, I said to the guard, “O.K., get the officer.” An officer came in after a few minutes. It was the man that we came to know very well as “The Bug.” He was a psychotic torturer, one of the worst fiends that we had to deal with. I said, “O.K., I’ll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital.” He left and came back with a doctor, a guy that we called “Zorba,” who was completely incompetent. He squatted down, took my pulse. He did not speak English, but shook his head and jabbered to “The Bug.” I asked, “Are you going to take me to the hospital?” “The Bug” replied, “It’s too late.” I said, “If you take me to the hospital, I’ll get well.”
    * * * *
    I was in the hospital about six weeks, then was taken to a camp in Hanoi that we called “The Plantation.” This was in late December, 1967. I was put in a cell with two other men, George Day and Norris Overly, both Air Force majors. I was on a stretcher, my leg was stiff and I was still in a chest cast that I kept for about two months. I was down to about 100 pounds from my normal weight of 155.

    “I was told later on by Major Day that they didn’t expect me to live a week. I was unable to sit up. I was sleeping about 18 hours, 20 hours a day. They had to do everything for me. They were allowed to get a bucket of water and wash me off occasionally. They fed me and took fine care of me, and I recovered very rapidly.

    We moved to another room just after Christmas. In early February, 1968, Overly was taken out of our room and released, along with David Matheny and John Black. They were the first three POW’s to be released by the North Vietnamese. I understand they had instructions, once home, to say nothing about treatment, so as not to jeopardize those of us still in captivity.
    * * * *
    As soon as I was able to walk, which was in March of 1968, Day was moved out.

    “I remained in solitary confinement from that time on for more than two years. I was not allowed to see or talk to or communicate with any of my fellow prisoners.
    * * * *
    “From the time that Overly and Day left me—Overly left in February of 1968, Day left in March—my treatment was basically good. I would get caught communicating, talking to guys through the wall, tapping—that kind of stuff, and they’d just say, “Tsk, tsk; no, no.” Really, I thought things were not too bad.

    “Then, about June 15, 1968, I was taken up one night to the interrogation room. “The Cat” and another man that we called “The Rabbit” were there. “The Rabbit” spoke very good English.
    * * * *
    “I really didn’t know what to think, because I had been having these other interrogations in which I had refused to co-operate. It was not hard because they were not torturing me at this time. They just told me I’d never go home and I was going to be tried as a war criminal. That was their constant theme for many months.
    * * * *
    “On the morning of the Fourth of July, 1968, which happened to be the same day that my father took over as commander in chief of U. S. Forces in the Pacific, I was led into another quiz room.
    * * * *
    “But the primary thing I considered was that I had no right to go ahead of men like Alvarez, who had been there three years before I “got killed”—that’s what we say instead of “before I got shot down,” because in a way becoming a prisoner in North Vietnam was like being killed.

    About a month and a half later, when the three men who were selected for release had reached America, I was set up for some very severe treatment which lasted for the next year and a half. [Note: a "month and a half" after July 4, 1968 would mean approximately August 20, 1968.]
    * * * *
    “To get back to the story: They took me out of my room to “Slopehead,” who said, “You have violated all the camp regulations. You’re a black criminal. You must confess your crimes.” I said that I wouldn’t do that, and he asked, “Why are you so disrespectful of guards?” I answered, “Because the guards treat me like an animal.”

    “When I said that, the guards, who were all in the room—about 10 of them—really laid into me. They bounced me from pillar to post, kicking and laughing and scratching. After a few hours of that, ropes were put on me and I sat that night bound with ropes. Then I was taken to a small room. For punishment they would almost always take you to another room where you didn’t have a mosquito net or a bed or any clothes. For the next four days, I was beaten every two to three hours by different guards. My left arm was broken again and my ribs were cracked.
    * * * *
    “So this was a period of repeated, severe treatment. It lasted until around October of ’69.
    * * * *
    “That was a long, difficult summer. Then suddenly, in October, 1969, there were drastic changes around the camp. The torture stopped. [Note: from August 20, 1968 noted above until October 1969 is a little more than one year.]
    * * * *
    “In 1969, after the three guys who were released went back to the U. S. and told about the brutality in the POW camps, President Nixon gave the green light to publicizing this fact. It brought a drastic change in our treatment. And I thank God for it, because if it hadn’t been for that a lot of us would never have returned. . . .”

    The personal account of John McCain in early 1973 in U.S. News totally contradicts the citation for the Silver Star he received as a result of being a POW in North Vietnam. The citation specifically cites the “torture” he was subjected to during his first month and a half in captivity, whereas his personal account mentions no torture during that period but rather the medical treatment he was given from the end of October 1967 until his release in late December 1967. By his own admission, he was placed in solitary confinement for two years from the time that the last of his first two roommates left in March 1968 and he concedes that his treatment was “pretty good.” During that two-year period of solitary confinement, he was “not allowed to see or talk to or communicate with any of my fellow prisoners.” So it appears that the only witness to the torture he claims he was subjected to beginning in the late summer of 1968 was John McCain himself. In essence, he was the source of two different accounts which are totally inconsistent with each other. Both accounts cannot be true. McCain was lying either to the readers of U.S. News (the first public account) or to the military men who prepared his Silver Star citation.

    BTW we know from the sad case of Pat Tillman that the military is not above fabricating citations for prestigious medals. That admirable patriot had forsaken a lucrative career in the NFL to enlist after 9/11, a decision which can be admired even if one questions the sense of it. He was killed as a result of “friendly fire” in Afghanistan, yet, he was, nevertheless, awarded a posthumous Silver Star for engaging with the enemy, an award that demeaned a very good man. The citation for his medal was pure fiction concocted by some bureaucrat in the military trying to garner some favorable publicity for our military.

    Read More
    • Replies: @tbraton
    I just went back and reread the late Col. David Hackworth's account written in 2000 when McCain was running for President. Col. Hackworth made this important point re McCain's Silver Star, which I should have included in my prior post:

    "Accounts by McCain and other writers tell of the horror he endured:
    relentlessly beatings, torture, broken limbs.

    All inflicted during savage interrogations.

    Yet no other POW was a witness to these accounts.

    A former POW says "No man witnessed another man during interrogations…
    We relied on each other to tell the truth when a man was returned to
    his cell."

    The U.S. Navy says two eyewitnesses are required for any award of
    heroism
    .

    But for the valor awards McCain received, there are no eyewitnesses,
    less himself and his captors." https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/talk.politics.misc/F0cLkpJe4BM

    I did make the same point that only John McCain offered testimony about his exploits which led to the prestigious medal, but I omitted to say that the U.S. Navy requires "two eyewitnesses" to justify "any award of heroism." (I am not certain whether those "two eyewitnesses" must be other than the proposed medal recipient, but, even if one of the eyewitnesses can be the medal recipient, McCain clearly failed that test as well since there were no other witnesses. The word "eyewitness" seems to imply someone other than the perpetrator of the deed.) I did stress that the citation for his Silver Star conflicts with McCain's own personal account published in U.S. News soon after his release of events that occurred after he was shot down. One of the two accounts has to be false.

    P.S.---The opponents of John Kerry during the 2004 campaign for President raised the same objection to Kerry's Silver Star. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1128562/posts ("The reason I say it places his officers on the hot seat is because they were very aware of the criteria required for the recommendation and approval of the Silver Star. There has to be at least two witness reports; there has to be a after-action report. There is no after-action report for the February 28, 1969 engagement in the spot reports for the months of February and March 1969 released to the public by Senator Kerry.")

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @HLMunchkin
    The Stars and Stripes web site is probably on board with the McCain Hero tripe.
    I tried to put up the following link that I got from this Unz web site and their moderator won't publish it.
    What is ironic is that it was published in their own magazine.

    http://www.unzcloud.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/McCain-POW-1969.pdf

    What you say doesn’t surprise me. Your response is just further confirmation of Ron Unz’s general thesis about “American Pravda.”

    With respect to the specific topic of whether John McCain was a “war hero,” I am going to take the liberty of repeating what he himself said in the long first person account published by U.S. News & World Report back in 1973 shortly after his release by the North Vietnamese:

    “I think it was on the fourth day that two guards came in, instead of one. One of them pulled back the blanket to show the other guard my injury. I looked at my knee. It was about the size, shape and color of a football. I remembered that when I was a flying instructor a fellow had ejected from his plane and broken his thigh. He had gone into shock, the blood had pooled in his leg, and he died, which came as quite a surprise to us—a man dying of a broken leg. Then I realized that a very similar thing was happening to me.

    “When I saw it, I said to the guard, “O.K., get the officer.” An officer came in after a few minutes. It was the man that we came to know very well as “The Bug.” He was a psychotic torturer, one of the worst fiends that we had to deal with. I said, “O.K., I’ll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital.” He left and came back with a doctor, a guy that we called “Zorba,” who was completely incompetent. He squatted down, took my pulse. He did not speak English, but shook his head and jabbered to “The Bug.” I asked, “Are you going to take me to the hospital?” “The Bug” replied, “It’s too late.” I said, “If you take me to the hospital, I’ll get well.” ”

    I contend that his own admission in 1973 is totally inconsistent with his later citation for the Silver Star which basically referred to his heroic resistance to his captors in the first two months of his captivity. To quote from my earlier post, “According to one press account, “McCain was awarded a Silver Star Medal for resisting “extreme mental and physical cruelties” inflicted upon him by his captors from late October to early December 1967, the early months of his captivity, according to the citation.” Donald Trump has simply challenged John McCain’s status as a war hero, but he showed great restraint in not going further.

    Read More
    • Replies: @tbraton
    About 7 years ago, when I first started looking closely into McCain's story as he was a candidate for President of the U.S., I read the entire first person account of John McCain that I discovered in the 1973 edition of U.S. News & World Report that was reposted online on January 28, 2008. [I started posting on Yahoo Finance in early 2003 and posted regularly there through 2009. I first started posting on The American Conservative in early 2010 and reposted there some of the things I had previously posted on Yahoo Finance message boards.] Piqued by Ron Unz's recent piece on McCain, I recently went back and reread the first few paragraphs to refresh my memory. I wish I had reread more, as I just did, for I would have rediscovered a lot more that my memory failed to retain over the years. Keep in mind that McCain was shot down on October 26, 1967, and, by his own admission in U.S. News, he brought up on his own just four days later (the end of October, 1967) his offer to provide military information to the North Vietnamese in exchange for medical care for his various injuries. That resulted in his being taken to a hospital where medical care of sorts was given to him. There is no mention in his account that he was tortured during the time he was in the hospital. He describes in detail the somewhat incompetent medical care he received, but his account states:

    "For the next three or four days [following his crash and rescue], I lapsed from conscious to unconsciousness. During this time, I was taken out to interrogation—which we called a "quiz"—several times. That's when I was hit with all sorts of war-criminal charges. This started on the first day. I refused to give them anything except my name, rank, serial number and date of birth. They beat me around a little bit. I was in such bad shape that when they hit me it would knock me unconscious. They kept saying, "You will not receive any medical treatment until you talk."

    "I didn't believe this. I thought that if I just held out, that they'd take me to the hospital. I was fed small amounts of food by the guard and also allowed to drink some water. I was able to hold the water down, but I kept vomiting the food.

    "They wanted military rather than political information at this time. Every time they asked me something, I'd just give my name, rank and serial number and date of birth.

    "I think it was on the fourth day that two guards came in, instead of one. One of them pulled back the blanket to show the other guard my injury. I looked at my knee. It was about the size, shape and color of a football. I remembered that when I was a flying instructor a fellow had ejected from his plane and broken his thigh. He had gone into shock, the blood had pooled in his leg, and he died, which came as quite a surprise to us—a man dying of a broken leg. Then I realized that a very similar thing was happening to me.

    "When I saw it, I said to the guard, "O.K., get the officer." An officer came in after a few minutes. It was the man that we came to know very well as "The Bug." He was a psychotic torturer, one of the worst fiends that we had to deal with. I said, "O.K., I'll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital." He left and came back with a doctor, a guy that we called "Zorba," who was completely incompetent. He squatted down, took my pulse. He did not speak English, but shook his head and jabbered to "The Bug." I asked, "Are you going to take me to the hospital?" "The Bug" replied, "It's too late." I said, "If you take me to the hospital, I'll get well."
    * * * *
    "I was in the hospital about six weeks, then was taken to a camp in Hanoi that we called "The Plantation." This was in late December, 1967. I was put in a cell with two other men, George Day and Norris Overly, both Air Force majors. I was on a stretcher, my leg was stiff and I was still in a chest cast that I kept for about two months. I was down to about 100 pounds from my normal weight of 155.

    "I was told later on by Major Day that they didn't expect me to live a week. I was unable to sit up. I was sleeping about 18 hours, 20 hours a day. They had to do everything for me. They were allowed to get a bucket of water and wash me off occasionally. They fed me and took fine care of me, and I recovered very rapidly.

    "We moved to another room just after Christmas. In early February, 1968, Overly was taken out of our room and released, along with David Matheny and John Black. They were the first three POW's to be released by the North Vietnamese. I understand they had instructions, once home, to say nothing about treatment, so as not to jeopardize those of us still in captivity.
    * * * *
    "As soon as I was able to walk, which was in March of 1968, Day was moved out.

    "I remained in solitary confinement from that time on for more than two years. I was not allowed to see or talk to or communicate with any of my fellow prisoners.

    * * * *
    "From the time that Overly and Day left me—Overly left in February of 1968, Day left in March—my treatment was basically good. I would get caught communicating, talking to guys through the wall, tapping—that kind of stuff, and they'd just say, "Tsk, tsk; no, no." Really, I thought things were not too bad.

    "Then, about June 15, 1968, I was taken up one night to the interrogation room. "The Cat" and another man that we called "The Rabbit" were there. "The Rabbit" spoke very good English.
    * * * *
    "I really didn't know what to think, because I had been having these other interrogations in which I had refused to co-operate. It was not hard because they were not torturing me at this time. They just told me I'd never go home and I was going to be tried as a war criminal. That was their constant theme for many months.
    * * * *
    "On the morning of the Fourth of July, 1968, which happened to be the same day that my father took over as commander in chief of U. S. Forces in the Pacific, I was led into another quiz room.
    * * * *
    "But the primary thing I considered was that I had no right to go ahead of men like Alvarez, who had been there three years before I "got killed"—that's what we say instead of "before I got shot down," because in a way becoming a prisoner in North Vietnam was like being killed.

    "About a month and a half later, when the three men who were selected for release had reached America, I was set up for some very severe treatment which lasted for the next year and a half. [Note: a "month and a half" after July 4, 1968 would mean approximately August 20, 1968.]
    * * * *
    "To get back to the story: They took me out of my room to "Slopehead," who said, "You have violated all the camp regulations. You're a black criminal. You must confess your crimes." I said that I wouldn't do that, and he asked, "Why are you so disrespectful of guards?" I answered, "Because the guards treat me like an animal."

    "When I said that, the guards, who were all in the room—about 10 of them—really laid into me. They bounced me from pillar to post, kicking and laughing and scratching. After a few hours of that, ropes were put on me and I sat that night bound with ropes. Then I was taken to a small room. For punishment they would almost always take you to another room where you didn't have a mosquito net or a bed or any clothes. For the next four days, I was beaten every two to three hours by different guards. My left arm was broken again and my ribs were cracked.
    * * * *
    "So this was a period of repeated, severe treatment. It lasted until around October of '69.
    * * * *
    "That was a long, difficult summer. Then suddenly, in October, 1969, there were drastic changes around the camp. The torture stopped. [Note: from August 20, 1968 noted above until October 1969 is a little more than one year.]
    * * * *
    "In 1969, after the three guys who were released went back to the U. S. and told about the brutality in the POW camps, President Nixon gave the green light to publicizing this fact. It brought a drastic change in our treatment. And I thank God for it, because if it hadn't been for that a lot of us would never have returned. . . ."

    The personal account of John McCain in early 1973 in U.S. News totally contradicts the citation for the Silver Star he received as a result of being a POW in North Vietnam. The citation specifically cites the "torture" he was subjected to during his first month and a half in captivity, whereas his personal account mentions no torture during that period but rather the medical treatment he was given from the end of October 1967 until his release in late December 1967. By his own admission, he was placed in solitary confinement for two years from the time that the last of his first two roommates left in March 1968 and he concedes that his treatment was "pretty good." During that two-year period of solitary confinement, he was "not allowed to see or talk to or communicate with any of my fellow prisoners." So it appears that the only witness to the torture he claims he was subjected to beginning in the late summer of 1968 was John McCain himself. In essence, he was the source of two different accounts which are totally inconsistent with each other. Both accounts cannot be true. McCain was lying either to the readers of U.S. News (the first public account) or to the military men who prepared his Silver Star citation.

    BTW we know from the sad case of Pat Tillman that the military is not above fabricating citations for prestigious medals. That admirable patriot had forsaken a lucrative career in the NFL to enlist after 9/11, a decision which can be admired even if one questions the sense of it. He was killed as a result of "friendly fire" in Afghanistan, yet, he was, nevertheless, awarded a posthumous Silver Star for engaging with the enemy, an award that demeaned a very good man. The citation for his medal was pure fiction concocted by some bureaucrat in the military trying to garner some favorable publicity for our military.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @tbraton
    "I remember when McCain was captured. My brothers and I watching on AFRTS and reading in the Stars and Stripes paper the traitor (1) lying on a gurney, (2) arm in a cast, (3) smoking a cigarette while being interviewed, knowing full well the cost to other GI’s for getting those 3 things (at least).
    Shortly thereafter watching almost every one of McCain’s F4 fighter squadron being shot down because of flight path, tactical and strategic information he gave his captors."

    Gary in UT, as veterans, you and your brothers could clearly assess what you saw and read much better than those of us who never served in the military. In effect, your experience made you expert witnesses. But, even if we lacked those pictures and the accounts in Stars and Stripes by which we can infer certain things, we have John McCain's own first person account in U.S. News back in 1973 after his release in which he admitted that after a few days in captivity he volunteered to cooperate with his captors in exchange for medical treatment. His own written admission appears to confirm what you and your brothers inferred from the pictures and subsequent events. In light of that damning admission, I don't see that McCain's defenders have a leg to stand on.

    The Stars and Stripes web site is probably on board with the McCain Hero tripe.
    I tried to put up the following link that I got from this Unz web site and their moderator won’t publish it.
    What is ironic is that it was published in their own magazine.

    http://www.unzcloud.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/McCain-POW-1969.pdf

    Read More
    • Replies: @tbraton
    What you say doesn't surprise me. Your response is just further confirmation of Ron Unz's general thesis about "American Pravda."

    With respect to the specific topic of whether John McCain was a "war hero," I am going to take the liberty of repeating what he himself said in the long first person account published by U.S. News & World Report back in 1973 shortly after his release by the North Vietnamese:

    “I think it was on the fourth day that two guards came in, instead of one. One of them pulled back the blanket to show the other guard my injury. I looked at my knee. It was about the size, shape and color of a football. I remembered that when I was a flying instructor a fellow had ejected from his plane and broken his thigh. He had gone into shock, the blood had pooled in his leg, and he died, which came as quite a surprise to us—a man dying of a broken leg. Then I realized that a very similar thing was happening to me.

    “When I saw it, I said to the guard, “O.K., get the officer.” An officer came in after a few minutes. It was the man that we came to know very well as “The Bug.” He was a psychotic torturer, one of the worst fiends that we had to deal with. I said, “O.K., I’ll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital.” He left and came back with a doctor, a guy that we called “Zorba,” who was completely incompetent. He squatted down, took my pulse. He did not speak English, but shook his head and jabbered to “The Bug.” I asked, “Are you going to take me to the hospital?” “The Bug” replied, “It’s too late.” I said, “If you take me to the hospital, I’ll get well.” ”

    I contend that his own admission in 1973 is totally inconsistent with his later citation for the Silver Star which basically referred to his heroic resistance to his captors in the first two months of his captivity. To quote from my earlier post, "According to one press account, “McCain was awarded a Silver Star Medal for resisting “extreme mental and physical cruelties” inflicted upon him by his captors from late October to early December 1967, the early months of his captivity, according to the citation." Donald Trump has simply challenged John McCain's status as a war hero, but he showed great restraint in not going further.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Anonymous
    I will not participate in meanness or innuendo. I am a Veteran and will speak truth. I remember when McCain was captured. My brothers and I watching on AFRTS and reading in the Stars and Stripes paper the traitor (1) lying on a gurney, (2) arm in a cast, (3) smoking a cigarette while being interviewed, knowing full well the cost to other GI's for getting those 3 things (at least).

    Shortly thereafter watching almost every one of McCain's F4 fighter squadron being shot down because of flight path, tactical and strategic information he gave his captors.

    Hearing and reading the things he said to our troops over the enemies radio systems just as the "Tokyo Roses" did in WWII.

    After the war watching with heartbreak as he used his political powers to block every attempt of our military, groups, families and even individuals to find and return POW's and MIA's through the 70's and 80's.

    Living through the Keating Five scandal and savings and loan tragedy, he was involved in, that nearly broke this country.

    Some of us are blessed with the ability to keenly remember things. Some of which you can't even see, hear or read anymore because truth has been "wiped" for those of vast power who are corrupt. Mr McCain willingly chose to serve the wrong gods. The cost to himself for what he has done I cannot imagine. May God have mercy on his soul.

    “I remember when McCain was captured. My brothers and I watching on AFRTS and reading in the Stars and Stripes paper the traitor (1) lying on a gurney, (2) arm in a cast, (3) smoking a cigarette while being interviewed, knowing full well the cost to other GI’s for getting those 3 things (at least).
    Shortly thereafter watching almost every one of McCain’s F4 fighter squadron being shot down because of flight path, tactical and strategic information he gave his captors.”

    Gary in UT, as veterans, you and your brothers could clearly assess what you saw and read much better than those of us who never served in the military. In effect, your experience made you expert witnesses. But, even if we lacked those pictures and the accounts in Stars and Stripes by which we can infer certain things, we have John McCain’s own first person account in U.S. News back in 1973 after his release in which he admitted that after a few days in captivity he volunteered to cooperate with his captors in exchange for medical treatment. His own written admission appears to confirm what you and your brothers inferred from the pictures and subsequent events. In light of that damning admission, I don’t see that McCain’s defenders have a leg to stand on.

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    • Replies: @HLMunchkin
    The Stars and Stripes web site is probably on board with the McCain Hero tripe.
    I tried to put up the following link that I got from this Unz web site and their moderator won't publish it.
    What is ironic is that it was published in their own magazine.

    http://www.unzcloud.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/McCain-POW-1969.pdf
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  • This is McCain with the aforementioned Dolores Alfond.

    My God he’s vain. He thinks wrapping himself in the flag and obfuscation is a substitute for argument. The evidence in the article is pretty convincing. I just don’t understand how, as a human being who has gone through that, McCain could possibly cover that up. Is he some sort of psychopath without empathy? I mean, I guess the argument that it could “rekindle feelings of shame” kinda makes sense. Beginning around 6:50 in the video, when talking about the nightmare ending, he does appear like someone frantically trying to plunge some things that won’t go down the memory hole. Last nine seconds sad, “hope to get it declassified,” yeah right.

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  • Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I once saw a comment somewhere that when John McCain was given the opportunity to leave prison he let another leave in his place. A decent thing to do. But this was disputed in an article I read. When he was permitted to go his also captured commanding officer said you don’t go before another soldier who was there longer. McCain was stuck there awhile. But then when he was freed he changed the story to it was he himself that let his fellow serviceman go instead of himself. Does anyone know if this is true.

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  • Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I will not participate in meanness or innuendo. I am a Veteran and will speak truth. I remember when McCain was captured. My brothers and I watching on AFRTS and reading in the Stars and Stripes paper the traitor (1) lying on a gurney, (2) arm in a cast, (3) smoking a cigarette while being interviewed, knowing full well the cost to other GI’s for getting those 3 things (at least).

    Shortly thereafter watching almost every one of McCain’s F4 fighter squadron being shot down because of flight path, tactical and strategic information he gave his captors.

    Hearing and reading the things he said to our troops over the enemies radio systems just as the “Tokyo Roses” did in WWII.

    After the war watching with heartbreak as he used his political powers to block every attempt of our military, groups, families and even individuals to find and return POW’s and MIA’s through the 70′s and 80′s.

    Living through the Keating Five scandal and savings and loan tragedy, he was involved in, that nearly broke this country.

    Some of us are blessed with the ability to keenly remember things. Some of which you can’t even see, hear or read anymore because truth has been “wiped” for those of vast power who are corrupt. Mr McCain willingly chose to serve the wrong gods. The cost to himself for what he has done I cannot imagine. May God have mercy on his soul.

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    • Replies: @tbraton
    "I remember when McCain was captured. My brothers and I watching on AFRTS and reading in the Stars and Stripes paper the traitor (1) lying on a gurney, (2) arm in a cast, (3) smoking a cigarette while being interviewed, knowing full well the cost to other GI’s for getting those 3 things (at least).
    Shortly thereafter watching almost every one of McCain’s F4 fighter squadron being shot down because of flight path, tactical and strategic information he gave his captors."

    Gary in UT, as veterans, you and your brothers could clearly assess what you saw and read much better than those of us who never served in the military. In effect, your experience made you expert witnesses. But, even if we lacked those pictures and the accounts in Stars and Stripes by which we can infer certain things, we have John McCain's own first person account in U.S. News back in 1973 after his release in which he admitted that after a few days in captivity he volunteered to cooperate with his captors in exchange for medical treatment. His own written admission appears to confirm what you and your brothers inferred from the pictures and subsequent events. In light of that damning admission, I don't see that McCain's defenders have a leg to stand on.

    , @coyote
    McInsane killed sailors on the Forrestal and went on to kill his squadron pilots, then condemn POWs MIAs to slow deaths and executions... he serves no gods, only Satan. His role in our government has been to send more of our young to death in service of zionist neocon wars. God will have no mercy on his soul.
    , @Jacobite
    That would be A4 not F4.
    , @Cyclops
    So perfectly stated. So much truth.
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  • @David In TN
    Before the Keating scandal, McCain was fairly cautious regarding military intervention. After that he was favored uncritically Clinton's foreign policy and was wildly enthusiastic for any war the neocons dreamed up.

    It’s the corrupt and perverted politicians who are easiest to control. Hence the proliferation of (quickly covered up) paedophile scandals amongst the political filth.

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  • @Fran Macadam
    It's true that McVain, whose love for all war may be motivated from the psychological after effects of the torture he suffered, still better fits the definition of hero than the freakish ones of Jennernation XXX. Heck, even Bowie Bergdahl, who at least still has a conscience, shows way more moral fibre than those we're lionizing as the ultimate Profiles in Courage these (last?) days.

    https://youtu.be/112W8q8XXKw

    More travestite than transvestite...

    As for Kiefer, he-has-betrayed-his-own-kind...

    Before the Keating scandal, McCain was fairly cautious regarding military intervention. After that he was favored uncritically Clinton’s foreign policy and was wildly enthusiastic for any war the neocons dreamed up.

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    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    It's the corrupt and perverted politicians who are easiest to control. Hence the proliferation of (quickly covered up) paedophile scandals amongst the political filth.
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  • It’s true that McVain, whose love for all war may be motivated from the psychological after effects of the torture he suffered, still better fits the definition of hero than the freakish ones of Jennernation XXX. Heck, even Bowie Bergdahl, who at least still has a conscience, shows way more moral fibre than those we’re lionizing as the ultimate Profiles in Courage these (last?) days.

    More travestite than transvestite…

    As for Kiefer, he-has-betrayed-his-own-kind…

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    • Replies: @David In TN
    Before the Keating scandal, McCain was fairly cautious regarding military intervention. After that he was favored uncritically Clinton's foreign policy and was wildly enthusiastic for any war the neocons dreamed up.
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  • Somehow, it has become an Amerikan pastime to consider via dirt, rather than consider by reason.
    My first instinct with a piece like this one is an immediate aversion. I am not a John McCain fan in any way, shape, or form. Personally, John McCain is unbalanced. Crackers. Bonkers. He doesn’t seem to be able to manage or hold a reasonable thought. But, disparaging John McCain is NOT going to make Donald Trump look better. If Trump cannot survive on his own without spreading dirt, he doesn’t deserve to win. That doesn’t mean that the candidate who runs the sleaziest, most low-brow, cretinous campaign won’t win – c’mon man, this is Amerika.

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  • Sunday on Fox News Chris Wallace stated that John McCain was a Navy pilot shot down while defending his country.

    Who believes this crock of crap? North Vietnam attacked the US?
    McCain was shot down over North Vietnam….not Toledo.

    This is why IQ is important!

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  • McCain’s ties to organized crime:

    http://www.wnd.com/2008/02/57354/

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  • @Carlton Meyer
    Let me begin by saying Nixon did a good job extracting the USA from the Vietnam mess, which is why the CIA ousted him with their Watergate Op. What were we to do about the other POWs the N. Viets kept? Most were captured in Laos where we told the world we were not fighting because that was illegal. At least Dick Nixon got most of the POWs out. For the doubters that many were left, read about POW Bobby Garwood, whose story is documented in the the book "Buzzsaw". He escaped in 1979, and was charged with treason!

    Nixon did a good job extracting the USA from the Vietnam mess,

    There are thousands of names on the Vietnam Memorial who might disagree since he promised to end the war in 1968 but instead escalated it and just killed more Americans and Vietnamese for that “peace with honor” thingy.

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  • My liberal father wondere why I, his progeny, flew the MIA flag at my home. His generation didn’t care, mine less so, the current one its nonexistent. Seems trite on one level, almost like “liking” something on Facebook to “raise awareness” for breast cancer or rape, especially since nothing can or will be done at this point. But it hits a little harder when a magnificent liar like McCain represents your state.

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  • Political parties love candidates with a “history”. They always tell them not to worry, that none of this will come to light. That this will never be a problem as long as they do as they are told and vote the way the establishment wants them to vote. The candidate thus puts the noose around his own neck. They are the perfect party hacks. McCain, a man who has received government checks all his life, is quite at home in this atmosphere of deceit and betrayal. His anger stems from the inner fury that is unleashed every time some constituency reminds him of his perfidy.

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  • […] via John McCain and the POW Cover-Up – The Unz Review. […]

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  • […] John McCain and the POW Cover-Up […]

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  • […] Article Source […]

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  • Let me begin by saying Nixon did a good job extracting the USA from the Vietnam mess, which is why the CIA ousted him with their Watergate Op. What were we to do about the other POWs the N. Viets kept? Most were captured in Laos where we told the world we were not fighting because that was illegal. At least Dick Nixon got most of the POWs out. For the doubters that many were left, read about POW Bobby Garwood, whose story is documented in the the book “Buzzsaw”. He escaped in 1979, and was charged with treason!

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    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    Nixon did a good job extracting the USA from the Vietnam mess,

    There are thousands of names on the Vietnam Memorial who might disagree since he promised to end the war in 1968 but instead escalated it and just killed more Americans and Vietnamese for that "peace with honor" thingy.
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  • […] those new doubts about McCain were still in my mind a few months later when I stumbled upon Sidney Schanberg’s massively documented exposeabout McCain’s role in the POW/MIA cover up, a vastly greater scandal. This time I was presented […]

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  • […] Along those lines, I remember the story of an ex-Special Forces officer and POW activist who grabbed one of John McCain’s aides, pulled him a stairwell, and gave him a beating right in the Capitol Building. I read about it in a media article which portrayed the guy as a nutcase, and back then in those pre-internet days, if the media said it, it must be true. But then I read this, by Pulitzer Prize winning NY Times Reporter Sydney Schanburg. […]

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  • […] those new doubts about McCain were still in my mind a few months later when I stumbled upon Sidney Schanberg’s massively documented exposeabout McCain’s role in the POW/MIA cover up, a vastly greater scandal. This time I was […]

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  • […] those new doubts about McCain were still in my mind a few months later when I stumbled upon Sidney Schanberg’s massively documented exposeabout McCain’s role in the POW/MIA cover up, a vastly greater scandal. This time I was […]

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  • […] those new doubts about McCain were still in my mind a few months later when I stumbled upon Sidney Schanberg’s massively documented exposeabout McCain’s role in the POW/MIA cover up, a vastly greater scandal. This time I was […]

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  • McCain is a gutless coward, and he has been for most of his lifetime. When he sang to his North Vietnamese captors he was given liberties and privileges the other prisoners weren’t, and he played them to the hilt. Only in the US could a coward like this actually gain the nomination of a major political party in his bid for the presidency.

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    • Replies: @coyote
    I lost friends, high school companions, in that cesspool of the war machine. McInsane got a free ride to Annapolis, became a pilot and burned up 140 some sailors when he cut in the afterburners onto a missile loaded plane behind him. Whisked away from the Forrestal before any investigation could begin shipboard (his father was Admiral Mc Cain (CINC atlantic fleet), he did not fly much longer before being shot down. (If that is what happened). We see his collaboration with the enemy still today: witness the selfies on the internet taken by Islamic terrorists in the Mideast, standing with this tool of the devil. The MIA movement finally gave up when most of us got diseases, got old, got tired, got cynical, got dead while waiting for justice for our brothers-in-arms and medical treatment from the VA. Donald Trump knows the truth; I pray he puts John McCain on trial for treason and hangs him from the Washington monument.
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  • I did a lot of research into the POW coverup back in the late 80′s
    and had the chance to see mccain at a Republican rally about 1989.
    I asked him about what efforts were being made to bring the
    Vietnam POWs back home. He shuffled his feet, looked down and
    to the left, covered his mouth with his hand, changed the tone of
    his voice, mumbled that “there are no POWs left in Vietnam”, looked
    at someone else, and changed the subject. In short, he showed multiple
    “tells” that indicate that a person is lying.
    He knows the truth.
    And it isn’t what he tells the media.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    A friend of mine who was born in Saigon to a man who was a North Vietnamese General in charge of a lot of POW's said her father would transport prisoners to different areas to be then sent on to Laos. At the time of the end of the war....ALL American POWs were NOT in Vietnam but were in Laos. Yes, the Vietnamese were telling the truth.... but not telling the truth about their wereabouts. She would have many talks with her father who was a very very cruel man who drank a lot and beat her and her mother up all the time.
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