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All Comments / By Max North
 All Comments / By Max North
    On the morning August 12, I and some other 20 Alt-Right men, not a few of them VDARE.com readers and supporters, assembled in a hotel outside Charlottesville VA, in preparation to attend the now-infamous “Unite the Right” rally at Lee Park. Our intentions were simple: to hear the speeches, stand by their friends, and put...
  • @iffen
    "We" could have serious questions that are never asked at trial. Fields may not testify.

    Did Fields drive slowly into the crowd for a distance with the crowd parting and scurrying to get out of the way? If so, how far did this play out? Did the car that he struck and the vehicle in front of that one also move through the crowd forcing it to part, and if so, did Fields observe this? Did the crowd get slower at moving out of the way thereby frustrating him? Was Fields assaulted earlier in the day?

    As to hate crime motivation, will reading fat Heather articles qualify as evidence? Does publishing such articles qualify?

    Was Fields assaulted earlier in the day?

    Possibly…

    #Charlottesville Driver James Alex Fields Jr. Random Shots All Day 8/12/17

    Published on Aug 21, 2017
    White supremacist James Alex Fields Jr who rammed his car into a crowd of protesters appears throughout the day in Charlottesville.
    Arrives at Emancipation park at 7am, rallies and marches chanting ‘The Jews will not replace us’

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @FKA Max
    Interesting. Thanks.

    Would you care to elaborate?

    So, domestic terrorism charges, but no hate crime charges?

    Was the Charlottesville car attack domestic terrorism, a hate crime or both?


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/08/14/was-the-charlottesville-car-attack-domestic-terrorism-a-hate-crime-or-both/?utm_term=.212c1dd561ab

    “We” could have serious questions that are never asked at trial. Fields may not testify.

    Did Fields drive slowly into the crowd for a distance with the crowd parting and scurrying to get out of the way? If so, how far did this play out? Did the car that he struck and the vehicle in front of that one also move through the crowd forcing it to part, and if so, did Fields observe this? Did the crowd get slower at moving out of the way thereby frustrating him? Was Fields assaulted earlier in the day?

    As to hate crime motivation, will reading fat Heather articles qualify as evidence? Does publishing such articles qualify?

    Read More
    • Replies: @FKA Max

    Was Fields assaulted earlier in the day?
     
    Possibly...

    #Charlottesville Driver James Alex Fields Jr. Random Shots All Day 8/12/17

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twHA66wwIRE

    Published on Aug 21, 2017
    White supremacist James Alex Fields Jr who rammed his car into a crowd of protesters appears throughout the day in Charlottesville.
    Arrives at Emancipation park at 7am, rallies and marches chanting 'The Jews will not replace us'
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @FKA Max
    I have never been very much interested in the courts, trials, etc., but I am extremely interested in this trial and case.

    This is Fields' attorney/defender:

    Denise Lunsford, Attorney http://lunsford-law.com/our-lawyers/

    Former Albemarle prosecutor Lunsford appointed to Fields case

    James Alex Fields Jr., 20, appeared in Charlottesville General District Court via video link on Wednesday, two days after a judge assigned local attorney Charles L. “Buddy” Weber to his case.

    In court Wednesday, a judge explained to Fields that Weber had a conflict of interest in the case, and that he would now be represented by former Albemarle County Commonwealth’s Attorney Denise Lunsford, a Democrat.

    Weber is one of 13 plaintiffs in a lawsuit against the city over its decision to remove the statue of Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee from the park that once bore his name and earlier this year was renamed to Emancipation Park.
     
    - http://www.dailyprogress.com/news/local/former-albemarle-prosecutor-lunsford-appointed-to-fields-case/article_e1810bee-829b-11e7-9b65-5b503c6f69d2.html

    Sealed search warrants shield details in Charlottesville case

    Details about any evidence found in James Alex Fields Jr.’s Dodge Challenger have been secreted for the time being by a Charlottesville judge, WTOP has learned.
    [...]
    Statements from police and prosecutors since Fields’ arrest Saturday have not touched on any evidence gathered, or suggested a motive for Fields driving his car at a high rate of speed down the street and crashing into stopped cars, which plowed into counter-protesters.
    [...]
    Fields’ court-appointed attorney Denise Lunsford had no comment about the sealed search warrants, and would not say whether she joined prosecutors in requesting the seal.
     
    - http://wtop.com/virginia/2017/08/sealed-search-warrants-shield-details-charlottesville-case/

    You might also be interested in my most recent comment over in the other comment thread:

    This is also important information to consider in this context, in my opinion:

    Distracted Driving Awareness
    [...]
    So even if Fields was only driving at a speed of 25 to 30 mph, as I suspect he did after I did my, admittedly, very rough distance measurements and (average) speed calculations, and was focused and calm, it would still take him up to 44 ft. to 66 ft. just to perceive and react, let alone initiate brake action, to any obstacles and people in his way, and he definitely, in my opinion, was not focused and calm in this situation, as most people can probably agree with, especially after his vehicle was loudly struck with that wooden flag pole.
    [...]
    Again, this is just my highly amateurish investigation of what could have happened during those few fateful and tragic moments on that day in Charlottesville. But I believe it is extremely important and worth it to look into and consider all of these details and possibilities, since so much is at stake, e.g., possibly the First Amendment.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/article/the-fat-heather-heyer-hoax/#comment-2009435

    https://www.flhsmv.gov/wp-content/uploads/BrakingDiagram.png

    Everyone interested in this case needs to watch this video:

    What Happened to Due Process in the US?
    52 views

    http://www.unz.com/article/the-fat-heather-heyer-hoax/#comment-2010014

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @iffen
    I have never been very much interested in the courts, trials, etc., but I am extremely interested in this trial and case.

    Well, I have a little bit of first hand information in this area.

    Exactly what happens to Fields is not important except to him.

    The 'big picture" has been set.

    Looks like road rage amplified by animosity to the people on the ground.

    Interesting. Thanks.

    Would you care to elaborate?

    So, domestic terrorism charges, but no hate crime charges?

    Was the Charlottesville car attack domestic terrorism, a hate crime or both?

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/08/14/was-the-charlottesville-car-attack-domestic-terrorism-a-hate-crime-or-both/?utm_term=.212c1dd561ab

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    "We" could have serious questions that are never asked at trial. Fields may not testify.

    Did Fields drive slowly into the crowd for a distance with the crowd parting and scurrying to get out of the way? If so, how far did this play out? Did the car that he struck and the vehicle in front of that one also move through the crowd forcing it to part, and if so, did Fields observe this? Did the crowd get slower at moving out of the way thereby frustrating him? Was Fields assaulted earlier in the day?

    As to hate crime motivation, will reading fat Heather articles qualify as evidence? Does publishing such articles qualify?

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @FKA Max
    I have never been very much interested in the courts, trials, etc., but I am extremely interested in this trial and case.

    This is Fields' attorney/defender:

    Denise Lunsford, Attorney http://lunsford-law.com/our-lawyers/

    Former Albemarle prosecutor Lunsford appointed to Fields case

    James Alex Fields Jr., 20, appeared in Charlottesville General District Court via video link on Wednesday, two days after a judge assigned local attorney Charles L. “Buddy” Weber to his case.

    In court Wednesday, a judge explained to Fields that Weber had a conflict of interest in the case, and that he would now be represented by former Albemarle County Commonwealth’s Attorney Denise Lunsford, a Democrat.

    Weber is one of 13 plaintiffs in a lawsuit against the city over its decision to remove the statue of Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee from the park that once bore his name and earlier this year was renamed to Emancipation Park.
     
    - http://www.dailyprogress.com/news/local/former-albemarle-prosecutor-lunsford-appointed-to-fields-case/article_e1810bee-829b-11e7-9b65-5b503c6f69d2.html

    Sealed search warrants shield details in Charlottesville case

    Details about any evidence found in James Alex Fields Jr.’s Dodge Challenger have been secreted for the time being by a Charlottesville judge, WTOP has learned.
    [...]
    Statements from police and prosecutors since Fields’ arrest Saturday have not touched on any evidence gathered, or suggested a motive for Fields driving his car at a high rate of speed down the street and crashing into stopped cars, which plowed into counter-protesters.
    [...]
    Fields’ court-appointed attorney Denise Lunsford had no comment about the sealed search warrants, and would not say whether she joined prosecutors in requesting the seal.
     
    - http://wtop.com/virginia/2017/08/sealed-search-warrants-shield-details-charlottesville-case/

    You might also be interested in my most recent comment over in the other comment thread:

    This is also important information to consider in this context, in my opinion:

    Distracted Driving Awareness
    [...]
    So even if Fields was only driving at a speed of 25 to 30 mph, as I suspect he did after I did my, admittedly, very rough distance measurements and (average) speed calculations, and was focused and calm, it would still take him up to 44 ft. to 66 ft. just to perceive and react, let alone initiate brake action, to any obstacles and people in his way, and he definitely, in my opinion, was not focused and calm in this situation, as most people can probably agree with, especially after his vehicle was loudly struck with that wooden flag pole.
    [...]
    Again, this is just my highly amateurish investigation of what could have happened during those few fateful and tragic moments on that day in Charlottesville. But I believe it is extremely important and worth it to look into and consider all of these details and possibilities, since so much is at stake, e.g., possibly the First Amendment.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/article/the-fat-heather-heyer-hoax/#comment-2009435

    https://www.flhsmv.gov/wp-content/uploads/BrakingDiagram.png

    I have never been very much interested in the courts, trials, etc., but I am extremely interested in this trial and case.

    Well, I have a little bit of first hand information in this area.

    Exactly what happens to Fields is not important except to him.

    The ‘big picture” has been set.

    Looks like road rage amplified by animosity to the people on the ground.

    Read More
    • Replies: @FKA Max
    Interesting. Thanks.

    Would you care to elaborate?

    So, domestic terrorism charges, but no hate crime charges?

    Was the Charlottesville car attack domestic terrorism, a hate crime or both?


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/08/14/was-the-charlottesville-car-attack-domestic-terrorism-a-hate-crime-or-both/?utm_term=.212c1dd561ab
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @iffen
    Thanks, I agree, the vehicle cannot be seen. The crowd is obviously parting and scurrying to get out of his way. I remember from another photo from 1?2? blocks before this one that the crowd was solid in front of his vehicle which means that the question of the distance that he had traveled with the crowd parting to get out of his way is pertinent. Also, had the crowd been parting for the vehicle in front of his and then coming back together? If this is the case, what was the travel distance for Fields with the crowd parting for his vehicle? Did Fields observe the crowd parting for the vehicle in front of his? Such questions should be answered in court, but the rule of law had a massive failure here, so I am not going to hold my breath depending upon the State of Virginia's judicial system.

    I have never been very much interested in the courts, trials, etc., but I am extremely interested in this trial and case.

    This is Fields’ attorney/defender:

    Denise Lunsford, Attorney http://lunsford-law.com/our-lawyers/

    Former Albemarle prosecutor Lunsford appointed to Fields case

    James Alex Fields Jr., 20, appeared in Charlottesville General District Court via video link on Wednesday, two days after a judge assigned local attorney Charles L. “Buddy” Weber to his case.

    In court Wednesday, a judge explained to Fields that Weber had a conflict of interest in the case, and that he would now be represented by former Albemarle County Commonwealth’s Attorney Denise Lunsford, a Democrat.

    Weber is one of 13 plaintiffs in a lawsuit against the city over its decision to remove the statue of Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee from the park that once bore his name and earlier this year was renamed to Emancipation Park.

    http://www.dailyprogress.com/news/local/former-albemarle-prosecutor-lunsford-appointed-to-fields-case/article_e1810bee-829b-11e7-9b65-5b503c6f69d2.html

    Sealed search warrants shield details in Charlottesville case

    Details about any evidence found in James Alex Fields Jr.’s Dodge Challenger have been secreted for the time being by a Charlottesville judge, WTOP has learned.
    [...]
    Statements from police and prosecutors since Fields’ arrest Saturday have not touched on any evidence gathered, or suggested a motive for Fields driving his car at a high rate of speed down the street and crashing into stopped cars, which plowed into counter-protesters.
    [...]
    Fields’ court-appointed attorney Denise Lunsford had no comment about the sealed search warrants, and would not say whether she joined prosecutors in requesting the seal.

    http://wtop.com/virginia/2017/08/sealed-search-warrants-shield-details-charlottesville-case/

    You might also be interested in my most recent comment over in the other comment thread:

    This is also important information to consider in this context, in my opinion:

    Distracted Driving Awareness
    [...]
    So even if Fields was only driving at a speed of 25 to 30 mph, as I suspect he did after I did my, admittedly, very rough distance measurements and (average) speed calculations, and was focused and calm, it would still take him up to 44 ft. to 66 ft. just to perceive and react, let alone initiate brake action, to any obstacles and people in his way, and he definitely, in my opinion, was not focused and calm in this situation, as most people can probably agree with, especially after his vehicle was loudly struck with that wooden flag pole.
    [...]
    Again, this is just my highly amateurish investigation of what could have happened during those few fateful and tragic moments on that day in Charlottesville. But I believe it is extremely important and worth it to look into and consider all of these details and possibilities, since so much is at stake, e.g., possibly the First Amendment.

    http://www.unz.com/article/the-fat-heather-heyer-hoax/#comment-2009435

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    I have never been very much interested in the courts, trials, etc., but I am extremely interested in this trial and case.

    Well, I have a little bit of first hand information in this area.

    Exactly what happens to Fields is not important except to him.

    The 'big picture" has been set.

    Looks like road rage amplified by animosity to the people on the ground.

    , @FKA Max

    Everyone interested in this case needs to watch this video:

    What Happened to Due Process in the US?
    52 views

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxdEqd1mtt0
     
    - http://www.unz.com/article/the-fat-heather-heyer-hoax/#comment-2010014
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Randal

    Do you know exactly how far the stopped car is ahead in that photo? I agree that it looks like one couldn’t be seen from the vantage point in that photo. Do we know the provenance of the photo and its authenticity of representation?
     
    No, I have no detailed information that I would trust on such matters. I'll wait until more information comes out.


    Explain to me again why I should concern myself with creating safe spaces for Nazis. Why can’t I just let the Nazis worry about that for themselves?
     
    I think we've been over it plenty of times. If the expression of political opinions can be suppressed violently or by law, as the left and their collaborators seek to establish (aided and abetted by those like astuteobservor II above who hate people for their political opinions), then there is no real political liberty for anyone on the broad political right, because there is no opinion so milquetoast that it cannot be smeared as "fascist" or as "racist" or as "Nazi" and the person expressing it assaulted, and no individual expressing traditionalist, conservative or nativist views so eagerly apologetic that he cannot be smeared as a crypto-Nazi or racist or whatever and given the same treatment.

    The comical thing is that many of the people decrying the marchers in Charlottesville as nazis and racists would themselves be assaulted by leftist thugs as supposedly nazi or racist, if they were to be so foolish as to express their own opinions freely in the wrong place.

    Thanks. It is a real difficulty for me. I don’t have any trouble applying the concept of free speech in an actual situation like Charlottesville. It is when I think about it in the abstract or theoretical that I run into problems. There, I am like you and choose “my side.”

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @FKA Max
    I found an even better and more conclusive photo, that shows Fields was probably not able to see the car(s) he was about to crash into:

    http://i2.cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/170815115940-05-ryan-kelly-charlottesville-restricted-exlarge-169.jpg

    The source seems credible and legit:


    Ryan Kelly, a staff photographer for Charlottesville's Daily Progress, snapped photos Saturday as a car barreled into a crowd of counterprotesters marching against a white nationalist rally. One woman died, and 19 people were injured.

    "I didn't have any sense of details of what was happening," Kelly, 30, told CNN's Anderson Cooper on Monday. "I knew immediately that something horrible had happened and I knew it had happened intentionally."

    He added: "But it all happened very, very quickly, and he [the driver] was gone as soon as he came down [the hill]."
     

    - http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/14/us/charlottesville-car-photo/index.html

    You can see a Toyota Tundra pickup parked on the right side of the street, here another angle of it after the incident:

    https://www.truthdig.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Charlottesville-Car-Crash-Aftermath-1024x683.jpeg

    A Toyota Tundra pickup is about 20 feet long, per Google, and the silver car Fields rear ended http://www.unz.com/article/the-fat-heather-heyer-hoax/#comment-2007082 was just a couple of feet (maybe 5 to 10 ft.?) below that parked Toyota Tundra pickup on 4th Street. So my guess would be that in the above picture I shared the silver car is about 50 ft. ahead and in the picture in comment #51 when the guy hits/makes contact with Fields' bumper http://www.unz.com/article/anarchotyrannys-unequal-justice/#comment-2003431 the distance is maybe 65 ft. from the silver convertible.

    But I could be wrong and several feet off with this semi-educated guesstimate.

    Thanks, I agree, the vehicle cannot be seen. The crowd is obviously parting and scurrying to get out of his way. I remember from another photo from 1?2? blocks before this one that the crowd was solid in front of his vehicle which means that the question of the distance that he had traveled with the crowd parting to get out of his way is pertinent. Also, had the crowd been parting for the vehicle in front of his and then coming back together? If this is the case, what was the travel distance for Fields with the crowd parting for his vehicle? Did Fields observe the crowd parting for the vehicle in front of his? Such questions should be answered in court, but the rule of law had a massive failure here, so I am not going to hold my breath depending upon the State of Virginia’s judicial system.

    Read More
    • Replies: @FKA Max
    I have never been very much interested in the courts, trials, etc., but I am extremely interested in this trial and case.

    This is Fields' attorney/defender:

    Denise Lunsford, Attorney http://lunsford-law.com/our-lawyers/

    Former Albemarle prosecutor Lunsford appointed to Fields case

    James Alex Fields Jr., 20, appeared in Charlottesville General District Court via video link on Wednesday, two days after a judge assigned local attorney Charles L. “Buddy” Weber to his case.

    In court Wednesday, a judge explained to Fields that Weber had a conflict of interest in the case, and that he would now be represented by former Albemarle County Commonwealth’s Attorney Denise Lunsford, a Democrat.

    Weber is one of 13 plaintiffs in a lawsuit against the city over its decision to remove the statue of Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee from the park that once bore his name and earlier this year was renamed to Emancipation Park.
     
    - http://www.dailyprogress.com/news/local/former-albemarle-prosecutor-lunsford-appointed-to-fields-case/article_e1810bee-829b-11e7-9b65-5b503c6f69d2.html

    Sealed search warrants shield details in Charlottesville case

    Details about any evidence found in James Alex Fields Jr.’s Dodge Challenger have been secreted for the time being by a Charlottesville judge, WTOP has learned.
    [...]
    Statements from police and prosecutors since Fields’ arrest Saturday have not touched on any evidence gathered, or suggested a motive for Fields driving his car at a high rate of speed down the street and crashing into stopped cars, which plowed into counter-protesters.
    [...]
    Fields’ court-appointed attorney Denise Lunsford had no comment about the sealed search warrants, and would not say whether she joined prosecutors in requesting the seal.
     
    - http://wtop.com/virginia/2017/08/sealed-search-warrants-shield-details-charlottesville-case/

    You might also be interested in my most recent comment over in the other comment thread:

    This is also important information to consider in this context, in my opinion:

    Distracted Driving Awareness
    [...]
    So even if Fields was only driving at a speed of 25 to 30 mph, as I suspect he did after I did my, admittedly, very rough distance measurements and (average) speed calculations, and was focused and calm, it would still take him up to 44 ft. to 66 ft. just to perceive and react, let alone initiate brake action, to any obstacles and people in his way, and he definitely, in my opinion, was not focused and calm in this situation, as most people can probably agree with, especially after his vehicle was loudly struck with that wooden flag pole.
    [...]
    Again, this is just my highly amateurish investigation of what could have happened during those few fateful and tragic moments on that day in Charlottesville. But I believe it is extremely important and worth it to look into and consider all of these details and possibilities, since so much is at stake, e.g., possibly the First Amendment.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/article/the-fat-heather-heyer-hoax/#comment-2009435

    https://www.flhsmv.gov/wp-content/uploads/BrakingDiagram.png
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @iffen
    Thanks. Do you know exactly how far the stopped car is ahead in that photo? I agree that it looks like one couldn't be seen from the vantage point in that photo. Do we know the provenance of the photo and its authenticity of representation?

    idealists identified as “Nazis” and “white supremacists”

    Idealists, that's a good one.

    Explain to me again why I should concern myself with creating safe spaces for Nazis. Why can't I just let the Nazis worry about that for themselves?

    I found an even better and more conclusive photo, that shows Fields was probably not able to see the car(s) he was about to crash into:

    The source seems credible and legit:

    Ryan Kelly, a staff photographer for Charlottesville’s Daily Progress, snapped photos Saturday as a car barreled into a crowd of counterprotesters marching against a white nationalist rally. One woman died, and 19 people were injured.

    “I didn’t have any sense of details of what was happening,” Kelly, 30, told CNN’s Anderson Cooper on Monday. “I knew immediately that something horrible had happened and I knew it had happened intentionally.”

    He added: “But it all happened very, very quickly, and he [the driver] was gone as soon as he came down [the hill].”

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/14/us/charlottesville-car-photo/index.html

    You can see a Toyota Tundra pickup parked on the right side of the street, here another angle of it after the incident:

    A Toyota Tundra pickup is about 20 feet long, per Google, and the silver car Fields rear ended http://www.unz.com/article/the-fat-heather-heyer-hoax/#comment-2007082 was just a couple of feet (maybe 5 to 10 ft.?) below that parked Toyota Tundra pickup on 4th Street. So my guess would be that in the above picture I shared the silver car is about 50 ft. ahead and in the picture in comment #51 when the guy hits/makes contact with Fields’ bumper http://www.unz.com/article/anarchotyrannys-unequal-justice/#comment-2003431 the distance is maybe 65 ft. from the silver convertible.

    But I could be wrong and several feet off with this semi-educated guesstimate.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    Thanks, I agree, the vehicle cannot be seen. The crowd is obviously parting and scurrying to get out of his way. I remember from another photo from 1?2? blocks before this one that the crowd was solid in front of his vehicle which means that the question of the distance that he had traveled with the crowd parting to get out of his way is pertinent. Also, had the crowd been parting for the vehicle in front of his and then coming back together? If this is the case, what was the travel distance for Fields with the crowd parting for his vehicle? Did Fields observe the crowd parting for the vehicle in front of his? Such questions should be answered in court, but the rule of law had a massive failure here, so I am not going to hold my breath depending upon the State of Virginia's judicial system.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @RobinG
    Umm.... No. Fields is responsible for his actions, regardless. Or are you bucking for some sort of mental incapacity defense?

    Tell it to Lorena Bobbit.

    Regardless, as I stated I hold aggressors mostly responsible for resulting violence, and the left were certainly the aggressors in Charlottesville, as they almost always are in our societies nowadays.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @iffen
    Thanks. Do you know exactly how far the stopped car is ahead in that photo? I agree that it looks like one couldn't be seen from the vantage point in that photo. Do we know the provenance of the photo and its authenticity of representation?

    idealists identified as “Nazis” and “white supremacists”

    Idealists, that's a good one.

    Explain to me again why I should concern myself with creating safe spaces for Nazis. Why can't I just let the Nazis worry about that for themselves?

    Do you know exactly how far the stopped car is ahead in that photo? I agree that it looks like one couldn’t be seen from the vantage point in that photo. Do we know the provenance of the photo and its authenticity of representation?

    No, I have no detailed information that I would trust on such matters. I’ll wait until more information comes out.

    Explain to me again why I should concern myself with creating safe spaces for Nazis. Why can’t I just let the Nazis worry about that for themselves?

    I think we’ve been over it plenty of times. If the expression of political opinions can be suppressed violently or by law, as the left and their collaborators seek to establish (aided and abetted by those like astuteobservor II above who hate people for their political opinions), then there is no real political liberty for anyone on the broad political right, because there is no opinion so milquetoast that it cannot be smeared as “fascist” or as “racist” or as “Nazi” and the person expressing it assaulted, and no individual expressing traditionalist, conservative or nativist views so eagerly apologetic that he cannot be smeared as a crypto-Nazi or racist or whatever and given the same treatment.

    The comical thing is that many of the people decrying the marchers in Charlottesville as nazis and racists would themselves be assaulted by leftist thugs as supposedly nazi or racist, if they were to be so foolish as to express their own opinions freely in the wrong place.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    Thanks. It is a real difficulty for me. I don't have any trouble applying the concept of free speech in an actual situation like Charlottesville. It is when I think about it in the abstract or theoretical that I run into problems. There, I am like you and choose "my side."
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Randal

    I think I just wasted alot of my time.
     
    You did, because all you did was confirm the accuracy of my position on the point.

    of course I hate nazis, don’t you?
     
    No, obviously. I try not to make a practice of hating people based upon their political opinions. Your position obviously differs, and it makes you a good fit for the politically correct left you are aligning yourself with, because they hate dissent as well.

    I prefer to reserve hatred for people who have harmed me or who threaten me and mine, or for powerful men and women who act in murderous, corrupt ways. However, if I were to hate anyone for their political opinions it would be those actually threatening to myself and to the things I regard as important, and that certainly wouldn't be a bunch of fringe idealists. The leftists engaging in violent intimidation, with massive mainstream support, in the guise of "demonstrating" would be much more appropriate targets for hatred.

    And if we are looking for people to hate, another target better than the irrelevant fringe idealists identified as "Nazis" and "white supremacists" would be those like you who effectively collaborate with the forces moving to censor political speech in order to suppress dissent, by promoting their smear of certain views as beyond the political pale.

    But unlike you, I'm not looking for people to hate because of their opinions.

    As for the rest, it's just going round the same circles again. I will wait to see what comes out over the next weeks and months. You have already reached a judgement that conveniently suits your evident hatred of the accused.

    My concern is not whether the driver panicked or "red misted", but rather whether or not the action was planned and premeditated. If it was, then he is primarily to blame for it, and the act was on a par with similar islamist attacks we have seen recently. If it was a heat of the moment action then he might or might not be legally or morally responsible, but the real people to blame are the mob who, as I noted before, engaged in violent intimidation dressed up as "protest". The people who gathered as a menacing and aggressive mob, illegally, to violently confront a legal political demonstration because they believe they have the right to deny free expression to political opinions they hate (a hatred you evidently share with them).

    Umm…. No. Fields is responsible for his actions, regardless. Or are you bucking for some sort of mental incapacity defense?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Randal
    Tell it to Lorena Bobbit.

    Regardless, as I stated I hold aggressors mostly responsible for resulting violence, and the left were certainly the aggressors in Charlottesville, as they almost always are in our societies nowadays.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Randal
    If you look at the first photograph in post 51 above, taken from a pov behind the accused's car, it's certainly plausible to suggest that he might not have seen the stopped car. Perhaps he thought he could just drive through the mob and escape that way.

    Thanks. Do you know exactly how far the stopped car is ahead in that photo? I agree that it looks like one couldn’t be seen from the vantage point in that photo. Do we know the provenance of the photo and its authenticity of representation?

    idealists identified as “Nazis” and “white supremacists”

    Idealists, that’s a good one.

    Explain to me again why I should concern myself with creating safe spaces for Nazis. Why can’t I just let the Nazis worry about that for themselves?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Randal

    Do you know exactly how far the stopped car is ahead in that photo? I agree that it looks like one couldn’t be seen from the vantage point in that photo. Do we know the provenance of the photo and its authenticity of representation?
     
    No, I have no detailed information that I would trust on such matters. I'll wait until more information comes out.


    Explain to me again why I should concern myself with creating safe spaces for Nazis. Why can’t I just let the Nazis worry about that for themselves?
     
    I think we've been over it plenty of times. If the expression of political opinions can be suppressed violently or by law, as the left and their collaborators seek to establish (aided and abetted by those like astuteobservor II above who hate people for their political opinions), then there is no real political liberty for anyone on the broad political right, because there is no opinion so milquetoast that it cannot be smeared as "fascist" or as "racist" or as "Nazi" and the person expressing it assaulted, and no individual expressing traditionalist, conservative or nativist views so eagerly apologetic that he cannot be smeared as a crypto-Nazi or racist or whatever and given the same treatment.

    The comical thing is that many of the people decrying the marchers in Charlottesville as nazis and racists would themselves be assaulted by leftist thugs as supposedly nazi or racist, if they were to be so foolish as to express their own opinions freely in the wrong place.
    , @FKA Max
    I found an even better and more conclusive photo, that shows Fields was probably not able to see the car(s) he was about to crash into:

    http://i2.cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/170815115940-05-ryan-kelly-charlottesville-restricted-exlarge-169.jpg

    The source seems credible and legit:


    Ryan Kelly, a staff photographer for Charlottesville's Daily Progress, snapped photos Saturday as a car barreled into a crowd of counterprotesters marching against a white nationalist rally. One woman died, and 19 people were injured.

    "I didn't have any sense of details of what was happening," Kelly, 30, told CNN's Anderson Cooper on Monday. "I knew immediately that something horrible had happened and I knew it had happened intentionally."

    He added: "But it all happened very, very quickly, and he [the driver] was gone as soon as he came down [the hill]."
     

    - http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/14/us/charlottesville-car-photo/index.html

    You can see a Toyota Tundra pickup parked on the right side of the street, here another angle of it after the incident:

    https://www.truthdig.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Charlottesville-Car-Crash-Aftermath-1024x683.jpeg

    A Toyota Tundra pickup is about 20 feet long, per Google, and the silver car Fields rear ended http://www.unz.com/article/the-fat-heather-heyer-hoax/#comment-2007082 was just a couple of feet (maybe 5 to 10 ft.?) below that parked Toyota Tundra pickup on 4th Street. So my guess would be that in the above picture I shared the silver car is about 50 ft. ahead and in the picture in comment #51 when the guy hits/makes contact with Fields' bumper http://www.unz.com/article/anarchotyrannys-unequal-justice/#comment-2003431 the distance is maybe 65 ft. from the silver convertible.

    But I could be wrong and several feet off with this semi-educated guesstimate.

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  • @iffen
    Good question. It may be unwarranted on my part to assume that he could have seen the car ahead. Do you have evidence that supports the premise that he couldn't see the stopped car?

    If you look at the first photograph in post 51 above, taken from a pov behind the accused’s car, it’s certainly plausible to suggest that he might not have seen the stopped car. Perhaps he thought he could just drive through the mob and escape that way.

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    • Replies: @iffen
    Thanks. Do you know exactly how far the stopped car is ahead in that photo? I agree that it looks like one couldn't be seen from the vantage point in that photo. Do we know the provenance of the photo and its authenticity of representation?

    idealists identified as “Nazis” and “white supremacists”

    Idealists, that's a good one.

    Explain to me again why I should concern myself with creating safe spaces for Nazis. Why can't I just let the Nazis worry about that for themselves?
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  • @RobinG
    What makes you think that Fields was aware that there was a car stopped there.

    Good question. It may be unwarranted on my part to assume that he could have seen the car ahead. Do you have evidence that supports the premise that he couldn’t see the stopped car?

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    • Replies: @Randal
    If you look at the first photograph in post 51 above, taken from a pov behind the accused's car, it's certainly plausible to suggest that he might not have seen the stopped car. Perhaps he thought he could just drive through the mob and escape that way.
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  • @Astuteobservor II

    “Being politically correct” is not what I wrote, but what you wrote.
     
    just want to clear this up, don't want to dwell on this point too much.

    comment #27 in it's entirety

    Just because you are prepared to jump to a conclusion wholly unwarranted by the known facts (and rather unlikely for a number of reasons) does not mean everyone else has to do the same, even if it’s the politically correct and “safe” thing to do.
     
    If you are that forgetful of what you write in this very comment chain. I think I just wasted alot of my time.

    Your comments make it more than apparent that you hate “Nazis” and that that hatred more than likely motivates you in your jumping to conclusions in this case (though only you can know the truth of your own motivation). You assert that you’ve seen video evidence that justifies your convenient opinion on the facts, fine. I’m marginally interested, but I’ve seen numerous videos that give me no reason to think that jumping to any firm conclusion about the motivation of the driver is justified.
     
    of course I hate nazis, don't you? if you don't, please do let us all know, let me know. Could save us both alot of time.

    your continued refusal to watch the video in question tells me alot of things about you.

    You provided a link to the clip that you claim justifies your own assessment, so I’m willing to watch it, but when I click on it and it refuses to play I’m not interested enough to spend time trying to work out why, considering I’ve probably already seen it amongst the aforementioned numerous videos anyway. Your opinion is adequately explained by your own evident political bias anyway, and though that doesn’t preclude your being correct it does suggest you lack the credibility to be taken particularly seriously on the point.
     
    shit, why didn't you just comment about this in the first place? you don't care. why the hell are we even having this conversation? and please, stop projecting your own retarded political bias onto others. just stop. not everyone is like you, please don't die from the shock of this revelation.

    it is a twitter video, how are you not able to play it? are you using some ancient computer running win 95?

    I don’t have a view in the sense that you do. My view is that we do not have sufficient information to draw firm conclusions on motivation at this point, especially in a situation such as this where so many are so strongly motivated to deceive, and especially where the authorities and all kinds of hugely well funded and well positioned people are strongly motivated to deceive. My position is that we will not have any firm basis for reaching a conclusion for some time, and probably until a trial has taken place (and maybe not even then, if it is too obviously manipulated).
     
    you realized you have already contradicted yourself in the same paragraph? your view is insufficient evidence to draw any conclusions as to the motivations of the driver, but why does your paragraph reads like white washing so much? it reads like as long as the verdict is guilty, it is fake, manipulated, all lies. do you see it? can you see it?

    I have a general inclination to disbelieve the notion that this was a premeditated murder for the reasons I’ve given above, and to suspect that it was either a “red mist” situation or a heat of the moment panic action, for the reasons I set out above and on the basis of the numerous partial videos and reports I have seen. But I’m well aware of my own bias in the matter, and my assessment will certainly change as more information comes in, even when it comes from evidently intemperate “Nazi-haters” such as yourself.
     
    now, this could be a good argument. but then what happens when there was no attack prior to him speeding up and ramming into people? it also falls dead.

    the most damning of all to me was the video show no attack on his car prior to the ramming. it actually contain the audio cue to the start of his speeding up + ramming. try to watch the video I linked and tell your honest, unbiased opinion(try :) )

    I think I just wasted alot of my time.

    You did, because all you did was confirm the accuracy of my position on the point.

    of course I hate nazis, don’t you?

    No, obviously. I try not to make a practice of hating people based upon their political opinions. Your position obviously differs, and it makes you a good fit for the politically correct left you are aligning yourself with, because they hate dissent as well.

    I prefer to reserve hatred for people who have harmed me or who threaten me and mine, or for powerful men and women who act in murderous, corrupt ways. However, if I were to hate anyone for their political opinions it would be those actually threatening to myself and to the things I regard as important, and that certainly wouldn’t be a bunch of fringe idealists. The leftists engaging in violent intimidation, with massive mainstream support, in the guise of “demonstrating” would be much more appropriate targets for hatred.

    And if we are looking for people to hate, another target better than the irrelevant fringe idealists identified as “Nazis” and “white supremacists” would be those like you who effectively collaborate with the forces moving to censor political speech in order to suppress dissent, by promoting their smear of certain views as beyond the political pale.

    But unlike you, I’m not looking for people to hate because of their opinions.

    As for the rest, it’s just going round the same circles again. I will wait to see what comes out over the next weeks and months. You have already reached a judgement that conveniently suits your evident hatred of the accused.

    My concern is not whether the driver panicked or “red misted”, but rather whether or not the action was planned and premeditated. If it was, then he is primarily to blame for it, and the act was on a par with similar islamist attacks we have seen recently. If it was a heat of the moment action then he might or might not be legally or morally responsible, but the real people to blame are the mob who, as I noted before, engaged in violent intimidation dressed up as “protest”. The people who gathered as a menacing and aggressive mob, illegally, to violently confront a legal political demonstration because they believe they have the right to deny free expression to political opinions they hate (a hatred you evidently share with them).

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    • Replies: @RobinG
    Umm.... No. Fields is responsible for his actions, regardless. Or are you bucking for some sort of mental incapacity defense?
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  • @iffen
    Why would someone who wanted to kill or injure as many people as possible crash into the rear of another car instead of accelerating into the crowd?

    What makes you think that Fields was aware that there was a car stopped there.

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    • Replies: @iffen
    Good question. It may be unwarranted on my part to assume that he could have seen the car ahead. Do you have evidence that supports the premise that he couldn't see the stopped car?
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  • @RobinG
    "...who do you expect to fool ..."

    FKA is trying to fool Ron Unz. If many of the videos have really been taken down, those who didn't see for themselves will be susceptible to such attempts at persuasion.

    Why would someone who wanted to kill or injure as many people as possible crash into the rear of another car instead of accelerating into the crowd?

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    • Replies: @RobinG
    What makes you think that Fields was aware that there was a car stopped there.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Delinquent Snail
    You are aware the dude driving that beast of a car was in the army, completed basic and then somehow left the army with no recorded discharge?

    You are aware that the cia and fbi regularly recruit operatives that just finished basic training?

    You are aware that video DOES NOT SHOW IN ANY DETAIL THE BACK OF HIS CAR PRIOR THE THE CRASH?

    You are aware the nat guard helicopter that crashed watched the whole scene and then mysteriously fell from the sky?

    You are aware that there is a colonel (he might be a lieutenant) in the ohio national guard with the same name and almost identical facial features?

    You are aware several of the witnesses are known cia contractors that have reported on events overseas?

    You are aware the dude driving that beast of a car was in the army, completed basic and then somehow left the army with no recorded discharge?

    You are aware that the cia and fbi regularly recruit operatives that just finished basic training?

    Where did you get that he had completed basic? It sounds like he was given an entry level separation.

    He reported for basic on Aug 11 2015 and was discharged on Dec 11 2015. Considering Army basic is 10-11 weeks, depending on how you count Zero Week, that sounds about right for a “failure to adjust” discharge after being recycled a time or two.

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  • All that works is getting your own back.

    Find them, inconvenience them and move on.

    If the toads in power will not protect you, they can’t harm you either, if you make it clear what you stance is.

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  • @Astuteobservor II
    oh look, the human scum couldn't spin it any longer.

    goodbye scum.

    I have to wonder why the Dodge Challenger’s airbags didn’t deploy, even after it rear ended the stationary car in front of it? If the airbags had been deliberately disabled beforehand then the case for premeditation becomes rock solid.

    Per Google and the NHTSA:

    “Frontal air bags are generally designed to deploy in “moderate to severe” frontal or near-frontal crashes, which are defined as crashes that are equivalent to hitting a solid, fixed barrier at 8 to 14 mph or higher. (This would be equivalent to striking a parked car of similar size at about 16 to 28 mph or higher.

    While James Alex Fields rear ended a car, he evidently wasn’t going that fast.

    http://www.unz.com/article/the-fat-heather-heyer-hoax/#comment-1999737

    The city block the accident/attack happened on is about +/- 220 feet long. I used Google Maps to roughly calculate the distance.

    Per the Fox News Youtube video it took James Fields’ Dodge about 6 seconds to travel that distance.

    If you use the following miles-per-hour to feet-per-second converter, 220 / 6 = 36.7 feet-per-second, which translates to about a speed of 25 miles-per-hour:

    http://www.kylesconverter.com/speed-or-velocity/miles-per-hour-to-feet-per-second

    This is way below the speed of 40 mph that was suggested and claimed, by one of the eye witnesses of the accident/attack, Fields’ car was supposed to have traveled at ( see video “charlottesville car attack debunked from victims with footage” for that eye witness account http://www.unz.com/article/anarchotyrannys-unequal-justice/#comment-2003431 )

    Not exactly a speed I personally would travel at to commit “attempted vehicular mass murder”, but that is just me, what do I know, I am just “human scum” according to the most astutest of observers.

    I am just 100% sure my opinion is 100% right on this.

    http://www.unz.com/article/anarchotyrannys-unequal-justice/#comment-2003291

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  • @FKA Max
    I have 20/20 vision, and you are extremely unhinged and seem to be an all-around unpleasant character.

    Good day!

    oh look, the human scum couldn’t spin it any longer.

    goodbye scum.

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    • Replies: @FKA Max
    I have to wonder why the Dodge Challenger’s airbags didn’t deploy, even after it rear ended the stationary car in front of it? If the airbags had been deliberately disabled beforehand then the case for premeditation becomes rock solid.

    Per Google and the NHTSA:

    “Frontal air bags are generally designed to deploy in “moderate to severe” frontal or near-frontal crashes, which are defined as crashes that are equivalent to hitting a solid, fixed barrier at 8 to 14 mph or higher. (This would be equivalent to striking a parked car of similar size at about 16 to 28 mph or higher.

    While James Alex Fields rear ended a car, he evidently wasn’t going that fast.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/article/the-fat-heather-heyer-hoax/#comment-1999737

    The city block the accident/attack happened on is about +/- 220 feet long. I used Google Maps to roughly calculate the distance.

    https://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/NA-CQ840A_VIRGI_9U_20170813145734.jpg

    Per the Fox News Youtube video it took James Fields' Dodge about 6 seconds to travel that distance.

    If you use the following miles-per-hour to feet-per-second converter, 220 / 6 = 36.7 feet-per-second, which translates to about a speed of 25 miles-per-hour:

    http://www.kylesconverter.com/speed-or-velocity/miles-per-hour-to-feet-per-second

    This is way below the speed of 40 mph that was suggested and claimed, by one of the eye witnesses of the accident/attack, Fields' car was supposed to have traveled at ( see video ``charlottesville car attack debunked from victims with footage'' for that eye witness account http://www.unz.com/article/anarchotyrannys-unequal-justice/#comment-2003431 )

    Not exactly a speed I personally would travel at to commit ``attempted vehicular mass murder'', but that is just me, what do I know, I am just ``human scum'' according to the most astutest of observers.

    I am just 100% sure my opinion is 100% right on this.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/article/anarchotyrannys-unequal-justice/#comment-2003291
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  • @RobinG
    "...who do you expect to fool ..."

    FKA is trying to fool Ron Unz. If many of the videos have really been taken down, those who didn't see for themselves will be susceptible to such attempts at persuasion.

    What a bunch of baloney!

    I am trying to get to the bottom of this case, see here:

    Thank you very much for providing and pointing us to this video footage. You are correct.

    Just trying to ascertain the facts as accurately as possible.

    I think this is what we all want and are here for.

    http://www.unz.com/article/the-fat-heather-heyer-hoax/#comment-2001359

    I am above all else interested in the Truth, and I am perfectly alright if in the end the Alt Right or I get proven wrong.

    Why are you guys so triggered by my posts!?

    If you disagree with me, simply say “I think you are wrong and I disagree with your research, etc. for these x,y, and z reasons.”

    You don’t even have to give me any evidence or reasons why you don’t agree with, but to cook up some asinine conspiracy theories about my true motivations and dehumanizing me by calling me “human scum”, is, like I said above, just “extremely unhinged.”

    Man, get a grip!!!

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  • @Astuteobservor II
    are you blind? in the video I linked, the guy is clearly shown between the 4th and 5th seconds. right before the the car rammed into the crowd. it is a continuous video, so no cuts.

    and the fox news video you posted is using the exact video that I posted. there was the thunk, then continuous sounds from the car ramming the people. it is less than 0.5 sec. I would put it around 0.25 sec.

    how in the hell are you trying to spin this shit? do you have everything between your ears?

    you were trying to mislead with that bullshit screen cap. for that I deem you human scum.

    I have 20/20 vision, and you are extremely unhinged and seem to be an all-around unpleasant character.

    Good day!

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    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
    oh look, the human scum couldn't spin it any longer.

    goodbye scum.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Astuteobservor II
    you do realize that the picture you are showing is basically within 0.5 sec of him before ramming those people? the person recording the video that I linked instantly knew what he was trying to do when he saw him sped up. you think the guy swinging that flag pole doesn't know he was about to ram people down? it is a simply matter of physics.

    are you seriously trying to spin this? like, who do you expect to fool with this retarded crap? you can clearly see the same guy in the video I linked.

    you would have a leg to stand on if this happened prior to to him speeding up. then the rage argument would make sense.

    everything else you linked, all those comments, are all of you guys trying to come up with excuses or attempts at white washing.

    that youtube video, please tell me what was the point of it. you need to tell me the points so I can counter or agree. other wise it is just noise.

    “…who do you expect to fool …”

    FKA is trying to fool Ron Unz. If many of the videos have really been taken down, those who didn’t see for themselves will be susceptible to such attempts at persuasion.

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    • Replies: @FKA Max
    What a bunch of baloney!

    I am trying to get to the bottom of this case, see here:


    Thank you very much for providing and pointing us to this video footage. You are correct.

    Just trying to ascertain the facts as accurately as possible.

    I think this is what we all want and are here for.
     

    - http://www.unz.com/article/the-fat-heather-heyer-hoax/#comment-2001359

    I am above all else interested in the Truth, and I am perfectly alright if in the end the Alt Right or I get proven wrong.

    Why are you guys so triggered by my posts!?

    If you disagree with me, simply say ``I think you are wrong and I disagree with your research, etc. for these x,y, and z reasons.''

    You don't even have to give me any evidence or reasons why you don't agree with, but to cook up some asinine conspiracy theories about my true motivations and dehumanizing me by calling me ``human scum'', is, like I said above, just ``extremely unhinged.''

    Man, get a grip!!!

    , @iffen
    Why would someone who wanted to kill or injure as many people as possible crash into the rear of another car instead of accelerating into the crowd?
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  • @Delinquent Snail
    I searched thru my youtube history and most of the videos were removed. Censorship at its finest.

    The couple i saw provided very sober and articulated accounts and documented several of the things i mentioned. It wasnt just some neckbeard talking.

    that is too bad. but in that case, my view stays the same.

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  • @FKA Max

    you do realize that the picture you are showing is basically within 0.5 sec of him before ramming those people?
     
    More like 1.0 - 1.5 seconds, possibly even as much as 2.0 seconds.

    You can clearly hear the guy hit Fields' car at about 16.5 sec into the Fox News Youtube video, and I am sure Fields might have perceived and heard that noise of the wooden flag pole hitting his car even more intensely inside the car, which quite possibly and naturally could have startled, distracted, and/or scared/angered him:

    https://youtu.be/v-Plzx73K68?t=15s

    Fields then plows into the crowd of protestors at about 18 sec into the Fox News Youtube video:

    https://youtu.be/v-Plzx73K68?t=17s

    are you blind? in the video I linked, the guy is clearly shown between the 4th and 5th seconds. right before the the car rammed into the crowd. it is a continuous video, so no cuts.

    and the fox news video you posted is using the exact video that I posted. there was the thunk, then continuous sounds from the car ramming the people. it is less than 0.5 sec. I would put it around 0.25 sec.

    how in the hell are you trying to spin this shit? do you have everything between your ears?

    you were trying to mislead with that bullshit screen cap. for that I deem you human scum.

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    • Replies: @FKA Max
    I have 20/20 vision, and you are extremely unhinged and seem to be an all-around unpleasant character.

    Good day!

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  • @Astuteobservor II
    you do realize that the picture you are showing is basically within 0.5 sec of him before ramming those people? the person recording the video that I linked instantly knew what he was trying to do when he saw him sped up. you think the guy swinging that flag pole doesn't know he was about to ram people down? it is a simply matter of physics.

    are you seriously trying to spin this? like, who do you expect to fool with this retarded crap? you can clearly see the same guy in the video I linked.

    you would have a leg to stand on if this happened prior to to him speeding up. then the rage argument would make sense.

    everything else you linked, all those comments, are all of you guys trying to come up with excuses or attempts at white washing.

    that youtube video, please tell me what was the point of it. you need to tell me the points so I can counter or agree. other wise it is just noise.

    you do realize that the picture you are showing is basically within 0.5 sec of him before ramming those people?

    More like 1.0 – 1.5 seconds, possibly even as much as 2.0 seconds.

    You can clearly hear the guy hit Fields’ car at about 16.5 sec into the Fox News Youtube video, and I am sure Fields might have perceived and heard that noise of the wooden flag pole hitting his car even more intensely inside the car, which quite possibly and naturally could have startled, distracted, and/or scared/angered him:

    Fields then plows into the crowd of protestors at about 18 sec into the Fox News Youtube video:

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    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
    are you blind? in the video I linked, the guy is clearly shown between the 4th and 5th seconds. right before the the car rammed into the crowd. it is a continuous video, so no cuts.

    and the fox news video you posted is using the exact video that I posted. there was the thunk, then continuous sounds from the car ramming the people. it is less than 0.5 sec. I would put it around 0.25 sec.

    how in the hell are you trying to spin this shit? do you have everything between your ears?

    you were trying to mislead with that bullshit screen cap. for that I deem you human scum.
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  • @Astuteobservor II
    sources please. please don't link wally's video again.

    I searched thru my youtube history and most of the videos were removed. Censorship at its finest.

    The couple i saw provided very sober and articulated accounts and documented several of the things i mentioned. It wasnt just some neckbeard talking.

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    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
    that is too bad. but in that case, my view stays the same.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • you do realize that the picture you are showing is basically within 0.5 sec of him before ramming those people? the person recording the video that I linked instantly knew what he was trying to do when he saw him sped up. you think the guy swinging that flag pole doesn’t know he was about to ram people down? it is a simply matter of physics.

    are you seriously trying to spin this? like, who do you expect to fool with this retarded crap? you can clearly see the same guy in the video I linked.

    you would have a leg to stand on if this happened prior to to him speeding up. then the rage argument would make sense.

    everything else you linked, all those comments, are all of you guys trying to come up with excuses or attempts at white washing.

    that youtube video, please tell me what was the point of it. you need to tell me the points so I can counter or agree. other wise it is just noise.

    Read More
    • Replies: @FKA Max

    you do realize that the picture you are showing is basically within 0.5 sec of him before ramming those people?
     
    More like 1.0 - 1.5 seconds, possibly even as much as 2.0 seconds.

    You can clearly hear the guy hit Fields' car at about 16.5 sec into the Fox News Youtube video, and I am sure Fields might have perceived and heard that noise of the wooden flag pole hitting his car even more intensely inside the car, which quite possibly and naturally could have startled, distracted, and/or scared/angered him:

    https://youtu.be/v-Plzx73K68?t=15s

    Fields then plows into the crowd of protestors at about 18 sec into the Fox News Youtube video:

    https://youtu.be/v-Plzx73K68?t=17s
    , @RobinG
    "...who do you expect to fool ..."

    FKA is trying to fool Ron Unz. If many of the videos have really been taken down, those who didn't see for themselves will be susceptible to such attempts at persuasion.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Astuteobservor II
    I linked that video to show the start. That was the only video that I watched when that attack happened that shows the start. It directly runs counter to some of the people claiming the driver panicked, being attacked by bats and bricks, why he ram into the crowd. That was the reason I dug through my history to find it.

    The car wasn't attacked when he sped up. That runs completely contrary to the "new narrative" of him panicking from attack. This is a very important point. That is why I accused alot of people in the alt right trying to white wash the mass murder attempt. You can clearly tell there was zero damage to the car before he ram into the 2 cars in front of him. There are alot of videos showing the right and left side at the moment of the crash. Zero damage to the car prior to the ramming. The attacks on the car happened when he stopped after ramming into the 2 cars in front. That completely contradicts panicking from attack to his car.

    No attack prior to ramming = no panic/fear =/= speeding up trying to to get away because of panic from attacks. Also, how panicked does he have to be to ram into a huge group of people? what, knew how to reverse after ramming people down, but don't know how to before speeding up + ramming people down? makes sense to you?

    If the 2 cars in front weren't there, the numbers would be close to the france, nice attack numbers. Think about how many got injured in this attempt? a google search tells me from 18-34. Thank whatever force there is that day that there were 2 cars in his way that day.

    No need to be an expert, you and anyone can have an opinion. I am just 100% sure my opinion is 100% right on this.

    No attack prior to ramming = no panic/fear =/= speeding up trying to to get away because of panic from attacks.

    What do you make of this picture just moments before the ramming of a “peaceful” protestor swinging at Fields’ Dodge?

    Evidence James Alex Fields Jr Was escaping Antifa Attack When Car Struck Mob.

    Also read my comments here:

    Then I found the following image, whose caption reads: “If the Brake lights are Lit, You must Acquit! This is what the video doesn’t Show, The Cameraman was panned down at the Moment!

    http://www.unz.com/article/the-fat-heather-heyer-hoax/#comment-2002968

    and here:

    I am pretty sure, that if James Fields had intended to kill as many people as possible and had terroristic intent, that he would have likely rented a car, and it would have probably been some type of big van to inflict as much damage as possible, like the Islamic terrorists in Europe usually use and do, not a fancy, pimped-out American sports car that reminded him of and he associated with his late father.

    http://www.unz.com/article/the-fat-heather-heyer-hoax/#comment-2001427

    In the interest of balance and transparency, here video of an eye witness to the ramming/accident, who says it was an intentional attack, and a compilation of tweets from a journalist who was reporting from a Charlottesville police station just after the accident had occurred and Fields had been taken into custody:

    charlottesville car attack debunked from victims with footage

    Published on Aug 15, 2017
    heres 2 actual people that was there and recorded the incident footage shown in the video is *my actual footage!*

    Taylor Lorenz‏Verified account @TaylorLorenz Aug 12

    I’m at the police station now interviewing officers and other witnesses. Every witness here claims the act was deliberate
    [...]
    Taylor Lorenz‏Verified account @TaylorLorenz

    Just wanna clarify that 2 officers who I spoke to who said act might not have been intentional were not on the scene. Had not seen video yet
    1:03 PM – 12 Aug 2017
    [...]
    Taylor Lorenz‏Verified account @TaylorLorenz Aug 12
    Replying to @TaylorLorenz

    The police are trying to figure everything out as it’s happening just like everyone else. Lots of people spreading conspiracies

    https://twitter.com/TaylorLorenz/status/896462280904364032

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  • @Delinquent Snail
    You are aware the dude driving that beast of a car was in the army, completed basic and then somehow left the army with no recorded discharge?

    You are aware that the cia and fbi regularly recruit operatives that just finished basic training?

    You are aware that video DOES NOT SHOW IN ANY DETAIL THE BACK OF HIS CAR PRIOR THE THE CRASH?

    You are aware the nat guard helicopter that crashed watched the whole scene and then mysteriously fell from the sky?

    You are aware that there is a colonel (he might be a lieutenant) in the ohio national guard with the same name and almost identical facial features?

    You are aware several of the witnesses are known cia contractors that have reported on events overseas?

    sources please. please don’t link wally’s video again.

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    • Replies: @Delinquent Snail
    I searched thru my youtube history and most of the videos were removed. Censorship at its finest.

    The couple i saw provided very sober and articulated accounts and documented several of the things i mentioned. It wasnt just some neckbeard talking.
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  • no attack on the car prior to speeding up + ramming, all the new theories about panic or rage due to his car being attacked falls dead. there are loads of videos showing the rear, left or right side of the ramming impact location. they show the people damaging the car after the impact. also showing the pristine condition of the car before impact = killing the panic or rage argument. I have never accused the driver of murder in this comment chain, but attempted mass murder. it was an attempt.

    that is the basis for my view.

    the new point about it all being staged, I have no opinion on that. I don’t know enough about this new point to comment about it.

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  • @Randal
    "I just played that video to make sure it was the right one when I replied to you. great, now you are computer illiterate too. need me to troubleshoot for you? dream on. and nice dodge, great job avoiding watching the video :) that tells me alot."

    Your comments make it more than apparent that you hate "Nazis" and that that hatred more than likely motivates you in your jumping to conclusions in this case (though only you can know the truth of your own motivation). You assert that you've seen video evidence that justifies your convenient opinion on the facts, fine. I'm marginally interested, but I've seen numerous videos that give me no reason to think that jumping to any firm conclusion about the motivation of the driver is justified.

    You provided a link to the clip that you claim justifies your own assessment, so I'm willing to watch it, but when I click on it and it refuses to play I'm not interested enough to spend time trying to work out why, considering I've probably already seen it amongst the aforementioned numerous videos anyway. Your opinion is adequately explained by your own evident political bias anyway, and though that doesn't preclude your being correct it does suggest you lack the credibility to be taken particularly seriously on the point.

    being politically correct in this case = having an opinion with a opposing view to yours :) right :) the cap fits alright, on your head :)))
     
    "Being politically correct" is not what I wrote, but what you wrote. What I wrote is that the position you are insisting everyone should adopt is the politically correct and safe one. Which it self-evidently is, as you implicitly admitted in your own comment ("if author wants to be taken seriously, he need to stop the attempts at white washing events. calling that attempted vehicular mass murder a “car crash”, he just lost any and all support he could have gotten outside of alt right circle. ").

    clear as day? I provided the criteria for my view. your turn. provide yours. you got any? I have a pretty open mind. show me evidence to the contrary, I will change my mind. I regularly do when proven wrong :) show me information that is as strong as that twitter video, it doesn’t have to be another video. show me. I will check this again.
     
    I don't have a view in the sense that you do. My view is that we do not have sufficient information to draw firm conclusions on motivation at this point, especially in a situation such as this where so many are so strongly motivated to deceive, and especially where the authorities and all kinds of hugely well funded and well positioned people are strongly motivated to deceive. My position is that we will not have any firm basis for reaching a conclusion for some time, and probably until a trial has taken place (and maybe not even then, if it is too obviously manipulated).

    I have a general inclination to disbelieve the notion that this was a premeditated murder for the reasons I've given above, and to suspect that it was either a "red mist" situation or a heat of the moment panic action, for the reasons I set out above and on the basis of the numerous partial videos and reports I have seen. But I'm well aware of my own bias in the matter, and my assessment will certainly change as more information comes in, even when it comes from evidently intemperate "Nazi-haters" such as yourself.

    “Being politically correct” is not what I wrote, but what you wrote.

    just want to clear this up, don’t want to dwell on this point too much.

    comment #27 in it’s entirety

    Just because you are prepared to jump to a conclusion wholly unwarranted by the known facts (and rather unlikely for a number of reasons) does not mean everyone else has to do the same, even if it’s the politically correct and “safe” thing to do.

    If you are that forgetful of what you write in this very comment chain. I think I just wasted alot of my time.

    Your comments make it more than apparent that you hate “Nazis” and that that hatred more than likely motivates you in your jumping to conclusions in this case (though only you can know the truth of your own motivation). You assert that you’ve seen video evidence that justifies your convenient opinion on the facts, fine. I’m marginally interested, but I’ve seen numerous videos that give me no reason to think that jumping to any firm conclusion about the motivation of the driver is justified.

    of course I hate nazis, don’t you? if you don’t, please do let us all know, let me know. Could save us both alot of time.

    your continued refusal to watch the video in question tells me alot of things about you.

    You provided a link to the clip that you claim justifies your own assessment, so I’m willing to watch it, but when I click on it and it refuses to play I’m not interested enough to spend time trying to work out why, considering I’ve probably already seen it amongst the aforementioned numerous videos anyway. Your opinion is adequately explained by your own evident political bias anyway, and though that doesn’t preclude your being correct it does suggest you lack the credibility to be taken particularly seriously on the point.

    shit, why didn’t you just comment about this in the first place? you don’t care. why the hell are we even having this conversation? and please, stop projecting your own retarded political bias onto others. just stop. not everyone is like you, please don’t die from the shock of this revelation.

    it is a twitter video, how are you not able to play it? are you using some ancient computer running win 95?

    I don’t have a view in the sense that you do. My view is that we do not have sufficient information to draw firm conclusions on motivation at this point, especially in a situation such as this where so many are so strongly motivated to deceive, and especially where the authorities and all kinds of hugely well funded and well positioned people are strongly motivated to deceive. My position is that we will not have any firm basis for reaching a conclusion for some time, and probably until a trial has taken place (and maybe not even then, if it is too obviously manipulated).

    you realized you have already contradicted yourself in the same paragraph? your view is insufficient evidence to draw any conclusions as to the motivations of the driver, but why does your paragraph reads like white washing so much? it reads like as long as the verdict is guilty, it is fake, manipulated, all lies. do you see it? can you see it?

    I have a general inclination to disbelieve the notion that this was a premeditated murder for the reasons I’ve given above, and to suspect that it was either a “red mist” situation or a heat of the moment panic action, for the reasons I set out above and on the basis of the numerous partial videos and reports I have seen. But I’m well aware of my own bias in the matter, and my assessment will certainly change as more information comes in, even when it comes from evidently intemperate “Nazi-haters” such as yourself.

    now, this could be a good argument. but then what happens when there was no attack prior to him speeding up and ramming into people? it also falls dead.

    the most damning of all to me was the video show no attack on his car prior to the ramming. it actually contain the audio cue to the start of his speeding up + ramming. try to watch the video I linked and tell your honest, unbiased opinion(try :) )

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    • Replies: @Randal

    I think I just wasted alot of my time.
     
    You did, because all you did was confirm the accuracy of my position on the point.

    of course I hate nazis, don’t you?
     
    No, obviously. I try not to make a practice of hating people based upon their political opinions. Your position obviously differs, and it makes you a good fit for the politically correct left you are aligning yourself with, because they hate dissent as well.

    I prefer to reserve hatred for people who have harmed me or who threaten me and mine, or for powerful men and women who act in murderous, corrupt ways. However, if I were to hate anyone for their political opinions it would be those actually threatening to myself and to the things I regard as important, and that certainly wouldn't be a bunch of fringe idealists. The leftists engaging in violent intimidation, with massive mainstream support, in the guise of "demonstrating" would be much more appropriate targets for hatred.

    And if we are looking for people to hate, another target better than the irrelevant fringe idealists identified as "Nazis" and "white supremacists" would be those like you who effectively collaborate with the forces moving to censor political speech in order to suppress dissent, by promoting their smear of certain views as beyond the political pale.

    But unlike you, I'm not looking for people to hate because of their opinions.

    As for the rest, it's just going round the same circles again. I will wait to see what comes out over the next weeks and months. You have already reached a judgement that conveniently suits your evident hatred of the accused.

    My concern is not whether the driver panicked or "red misted", but rather whether or not the action was planned and premeditated. If it was, then he is primarily to blame for it, and the act was on a par with similar islamist attacks we have seen recently. If it was a heat of the moment action then he might or might not be legally or morally responsible, but the real people to blame are the mob who, as I noted before, engaged in violent intimidation dressed up as "protest". The people who gathered as a menacing and aggressive mob, illegally, to violently confront a legal political demonstration because they believe they have the right to deny free expression to political opinions they hate (a hatred you evidently share with them).
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  • @Ron Unz

    this is the video that convinced me that it was 100% premeditated.

    all the damage you are talking about by the bats n bricks were after he rammed his car into the 2 cars in front. the ppl around started attacking his car. this is shown in a few very close up videos.
     
    Well, in that particular video clip it's a little hard for me to see what the car actually hits since it's at the far end of the scene. However, there are lots of different video clips in this other piece, and some of them seem to show him rear-ending that other other car:

    http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2017/09/05/heather-heyer-died-of-a-heart-attack/

    There was also a short clip in this article I'd published right after the events in question, which seems to show the same thing, and provides a defensive narrative:

    http://www.unz.com/article/narrative-collapse-is-charlottesvilles-james-alex-fields-the-next-george-zimmerman/

    Disentangling these sorts of ambiguous video evidence really isn't my strong point, but if he crashed into that other car, wouldn't that be more consistent with his trying to escape a mob chasing him than with his intent just to attack demonstrators? And then the car he rear-ended hit another right ahead, which then hit some of the people blocking the street in front of it, which may have caused most of the injuries.

    It seems to me if he'd actually crashed at reasonable speed directly into demonstrators, many, many more people would have been killed or severely injured, as opposed to his crashing into a car which hit another car which then hit the demonstrators.

    But I'm *really* not an expert on any of this, so don't take my opinion very seriously...

    I linked that video to show the start. That was the only video that I watched when that attack happened that shows the start. It directly runs counter to some of the people claiming the driver panicked, being attacked by bats and bricks, why he ram into the crowd. That was the reason I dug through my history to find it.

    The car wasn’t attacked when he sped up. That runs completely contrary to the “new narrative” of him panicking from attack. This is a very important point. That is why I accused alot of people in the alt right trying to white wash the mass murder attempt. You can clearly tell there was zero damage to the car before he ram into the 2 cars in front of him. There are alot of videos showing the right and left side at the moment of the crash. Zero damage to the car prior to the ramming. The attacks on the car happened when he stopped after ramming into the 2 cars in front. That completely contradicts panicking from attack to his car.

    No attack prior to ramming = no panic/fear =/= speeding up trying to to get away because of panic from attacks. Also, how panicked does he have to be to ram into a huge group of people? what, knew how to reverse after ramming people down, but don’t know how to before speeding up + ramming people down? makes sense to you?

    If the 2 cars in front weren’t there, the numbers would be close to the france, nice attack numbers. Think about how many got injured in this attempt? a google search tells me from 18-34. Thank whatever force there is that day that there were 2 cars in his way that day.

    No need to be an expert, you and anyone can have an opinion. I am just 100% sure my opinion is 100% right on this.

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    • Replies: @FKA Max

    No attack prior to ramming = no panic/fear =/= speeding up trying to to get away because of panic from attacks.
     
    What do you make of this picture just moments before the ramming of a ``peaceful'' protestor swinging at Fields' Dodge?

    Evidence James Alex Fields Jr Was escaping Antifa Attack When Car Struck Mob.

    https://i.ytimg.com/vi/JBTIlGo541s/maxresdefault.jpg

    Also read my comments here:

    Then I found the following image, whose caption reads: “If the Brake lights are Lit, You must Acquit! This is what the video doesn’t Show, The Cameraman was panned down at the Moment!
     
    - http://www.unz.com/article/the-fat-heather-heyer-hoax/#comment-2002968

    and here:

    I am pretty sure, that if James Fields had intended to kill as many people as possible and had terroristic intent, that he would have likely rented a car, and it would have probably been some type of big van to inflict as much damage as possible, like the Islamic terrorists in Europe usually use and do, not a fancy, pimped-out American sports car that reminded him of and he associated with his late father.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/article/the-fat-heather-heyer-hoax/#comment-2001427

    In the interest of balance and transparency, here video of an eye witness to the ramming/accident, who says it was an intentional attack, and a compilation of tweets from a journalist who was reporting from a Charlottesville police station just after the accident had occurred and Fields had been taken into custody:

    charlottesville car attack debunked from victims with footage

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Br0DmM7-3c

    Published on Aug 15, 2017
    heres 2 actual people that was there and recorded the incident footage shown in the video is *my actual footage!*


    Taylor Lorenz‏Verified account @TaylorLorenz Aug 12

    I'm at the police station now interviewing officers and other witnesses. Every witness here claims the act was deliberate
    [...]
    Taylor Lorenz‏Verified account @TaylorLorenz

    Just wanna clarify that 2 officers who I spoke to who said act might not have been intentional were not on the scene. Had not seen video yet
    1:03 PM - 12 Aug 2017
    [...]
    Taylor Lorenz‏Verified account @TaylorLorenz Aug 12
    Replying to @TaylorLorenz

    The police are trying to figure everything out as it's happening just like everyone else. Lots of people spreading conspiracies
     
    - https://twitter.com/TaylorLorenz/status/896462280904364032
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  • @RobinG
    Hi Ron,

    The only video I've seen alleging the armed mob meme, actually shows the car approaching a large group from behind. One of the crowd swings at the bumper - after the car passes him. It's a short clip, and we don't see what happens after that.

    Another (apparently next in time) video shows the car, moving down an almost empty street (and we don't see any mob in pursuit) until it plows into the crowd that included Heather Heyer. During this video, it appears that the car drives through an intersection - where it could have turned left or right to avoid the bottleneck at the bottom of the hill (where 2 other cars had stopped). Then it reverses and moves rapidly back up the street, again passing the cross-street, until it goes out of sight.

    Perhaps police forensics can determine how much time elapsed between the 1st and 2nd videos. Then ask whether the stick to the bumper (no prior damage to car was seen in 2nd video) threw Fields (or the "real" driver, if you want to go down that rabbit hole - there should be an emoticon for tin foil hat), into such a panic that he fled at least 2 blocks, blinded by fear, until he crashed into people and cars.

    Given Fields' reported history, his reaction to his car being smacked more likely would have been anger, not fear. And rage is a much more credible explanation for his behavior. But that is for those with all the information to decide. Of course, since many claim the authorities staged the whole thing, there will be no end to it.

    Given Fields’ reported history, his reaction to his car being smacked more likely would have been anger, not fear. And rage is a much more credible explanation for his behavior.

    That’s quite possibly the case.

    As for the “escaping the mob” argument, it does not require him to have been actually chased down the road in question by such a mob, but rather just that he was driving around in a town full of aggressively violent thugs looking for people just like him to attack and panicked as a result. And we know that numerous people were attacked by said mob, including journalists.

    At the moment, my only real (tentative) conclusion is that it’s pretty clear it was not a premeditated, planned attack. It was probably a heat of the moment incident motivated by either panic or “red mist” rage.

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  • @utu
    There is other possibility. The event was staged. The maroon mini van was the major prop. We do not know who actually was driving the black dodge.

    Maroon mini van arrives at the scene 2:02min
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6f-_aY4lSXI

    Ford Fisher walks by the parked maroon mini van 23:36
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePsK0dpyu4g

    Somebody else passes by the parked maroon mini van 9:03. The driver of the van visible.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESHIrLb7xxM&t=553s

    Dodge leaving the scene. Applause. Passing by police on the sidewalk. This was shot in front of the police station garage:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0_vGhASjtU

    There is other possibility. The event was staged.

    That’s a possibility but would certainly count as a remarkable claim in the sense of our host’s past suggestion that “remarkable claims require remarkable evidence”.

    No doubt someone will apply some kind of “Revusky’s butterknife” to make it all clear to us at some point.

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  • @Astuteobservor II
    I just played that video to make sure it was the right one when I replied to you. great, now you are computer illiterate too. need me to troubleshoot for you? dream on. and nice dodge, great job avoiding watching the video :) that tells me alot.

    being politically correct in this case = having an opinion with a opposing view to yours :) right :) the cap fits alright, on your head :)))

    clear as day? I provided the criteria for my view. your turn. provide yours. you got any? I have a pretty open mind. show me evidence to the contrary, I will change my mind. I regularly do when proven wrong :) show me information that is as strong as that twitter video, it doesn't have to be another video. show me. I will check this again.

    I just played that video to make sure it was the right one when I replied to you. great, now you are computer illiterate too. need me to troubleshoot for you? dream on. and nice dodge, great job avoiding watching the video :) that tells me alot.

    Your comments make it more than apparent that you hate “Nazis” and that that hatred more than likely motivates you in your jumping to conclusions in this case (though only you can know the truth of your own motivation). You assert that you’ve seen video evidence that justifies your convenient opinion on the facts, fine. I’m marginally interested, but I’ve seen numerous videos that give me no reason to think that jumping to any firm conclusion about the motivation of the driver is justified.

    You provided a link to the clip that you claim justifies your own assessment, so I’m willing to watch it, but when I click on it and it refuses to play I’m not interested enough to spend time trying to work out why, considering I’ve probably already seen it amongst the aforementioned numerous videos anyway. Your opinion is adequately explained by your own evident political bias anyway, and though that doesn’t preclude your being correct it does suggest you lack the credibility to be taken particularly seriously on the point.

    being politically correct in this case = having an opinion with a opposing view to yours :) right :) the cap fits alright, on your head :)))

    “Being politically correct” is not what I wrote, but what you wrote. What I wrote is that the position you are insisting everyone should adopt is the politically correct and safe one. Which it self-evidently is, as you implicitly admitted in your own comment (“if author wants to be taken seriously, he need to stop the attempts at white washing events. calling that attempted vehicular mass murder a “car crash”, he just lost any and all support he could have gotten outside of alt right circle. “).

    clear as day? I provided the criteria for my view. your turn. provide yours. you got any? I have a pretty open mind. show me evidence to the contrary, I will change my mind. I regularly do when proven wrong :) show me information that is as strong as that twitter video, it doesn’t have to be another video. show me. I will check this again.

    I don’t have a view in the sense that you do. My view is that we do not have sufficient information to draw firm conclusions on motivation at this point, especially in a situation such as this where so many are so strongly motivated to deceive, and especially where the authorities and all kinds of hugely well funded and well positioned people are strongly motivated to deceive. My position is that we will not have any firm basis for reaching a conclusion for some time, and probably until a trial has taken place (and maybe not even then, if it is too obviously manipulated).

    I have a general inclination to disbelieve the notion that this was a premeditated murder for the reasons I’ve given above, and to suspect that it was either a “red mist” situation or a heat of the moment panic action, for the reasons I set out above and on the basis of the numerous partial videos and reports I have seen. But I’m well aware of my own bias in the matter, and my assessment will certainly change as more information comes in, even when it comes from evidently intemperate “Nazi-haters” such as yourself.

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    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II

    “Being politically correct” is not what I wrote, but what you wrote.
     
    just want to clear this up, don't want to dwell on this point too much.

    comment #27 in it's entirety

    Just because you are prepared to jump to a conclusion wholly unwarranted by the known facts (and rather unlikely for a number of reasons) does not mean everyone else has to do the same, even if it’s the politically correct and “safe” thing to do.
     
    If you are that forgetful of what you write in this very comment chain. I think I just wasted alot of my time.

    Your comments make it more than apparent that you hate “Nazis” and that that hatred more than likely motivates you in your jumping to conclusions in this case (though only you can know the truth of your own motivation). You assert that you’ve seen video evidence that justifies your convenient opinion on the facts, fine. I’m marginally interested, but I’ve seen numerous videos that give me no reason to think that jumping to any firm conclusion about the motivation of the driver is justified.
     
    of course I hate nazis, don't you? if you don't, please do let us all know, let me know. Could save us both alot of time.

    your continued refusal to watch the video in question tells me alot of things about you.

    You provided a link to the clip that you claim justifies your own assessment, so I’m willing to watch it, but when I click on it and it refuses to play I’m not interested enough to spend time trying to work out why, considering I’ve probably already seen it amongst the aforementioned numerous videos anyway. Your opinion is adequately explained by your own evident political bias anyway, and though that doesn’t preclude your being correct it does suggest you lack the credibility to be taken particularly seriously on the point.
     
    shit, why didn't you just comment about this in the first place? you don't care. why the hell are we even having this conversation? and please, stop projecting your own retarded political bias onto others. just stop. not everyone is like you, please don't die from the shock of this revelation.

    it is a twitter video, how are you not able to play it? are you using some ancient computer running win 95?

    I don’t have a view in the sense that you do. My view is that we do not have sufficient information to draw firm conclusions on motivation at this point, especially in a situation such as this where so many are so strongly motivated to deceive, and especially where the authorities and all kinds of hugely well funded and well positioned people are strongly motivated to deceive. My position is that we will not have any firm basis for reaching a conclusion for some time, and probably until a trial has taken place (and maybe not even then, if it is too obviously manipulated).
     
    you realized you have already contradicted yourself in the same paragraph? your view is insufficient evidence to draw any conclusions as to the motivations of the driver, but why does your paragraph reads like white washing so much? it reads like as long as the verdict is guilty, it is fake, manipulated, all lies. do you see it? can you see it?

    I have a general inclination to disbelieve the notion that this was a premeditated murder for the reasons I’ve given above, and to suspect that it was either a “red mist” situation or a heat of the moment panic action, for the reasons I set out above and on the basis of the numerous partial videos and reports I have seen. But I’m well aware of my own bias in the matter, and my assessment will certainly change as more information comes in, even when it comes from evidently intemperate “Nazi-haters” such as yourself.
     
    now, this could be a good argument. but then what happens when there was no attack prior to him speeding up and ramming into people? it also falls dead.

    the most damning of all to me was the video show no attack on his car prior to the ramming. it actually contain the audio cue to the start of his speeding up + ramming. try to watch the video I linked and tell your honest, unbiased opinion(try :) )
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  • @Ron Unz

    this is the video that convinced me that it was 100% premeditated.

    all the damage you are talking about by the bats n bricks were after he rammed his car into the 2 cars in front. the ppl around started attacking his car. this is shown in a few very close up videos.
     
    Well, in that particular video clip it's a little hard for me to see what the car actually hits since it's at the far end of the scene. However, there are lots of different video clips in this other piece, and some of them seem to show him rear-ending that other other car:

    http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2017/09/05/heather-heyer-died-of-a-heart-attack/

    There was also a short clip in this article I'd published right after the events in question, which seems to show the same thing, and provides a defensive narrative:

    http://www.unz.com/article/narrative-collapse-is-charlottesvilles-james-alex-fields-the-next-george-zimmerman/

    Disentangling these sorts of ambiguous video evidence really isn't my strong point, but if he crashed into that other car, wouldn't that be more consistent with his trying to escape a mob chasing him than with his intent just to attack demonstrators? And then the car he rear-ended hit another right ahead, which then hit some of the people blocking the street in front of it, which may have caused most of the injuries.

    It seems to me if he'd actually crashed at reasonable speed directly into demonstrators, many, many more people would have been killed or severely injured, as opposed to his crashing into a car which hit another car which then hit the demonstrators.

    But I'm *really* not an expert on any of this, so don't take my opinion very seriously...

    You dont need to be an expert to see what happened. The dozens of videos from so many angles makes it pretty clear this wasnt a directed attack against demonstrators. Anyone thats not an idiot can come to that conclusion on their own. Problem is, America has become the america in “idiocracy”. Too many drugs, too much tv, and not enough decent food has robbed this country of its once great national intelligence.

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  • @Astuteobservor II
    I just played that video to make sure it was the right one when I replied to you. great, now you are computer illiterate too. need me to troubleshoot for you? dream on. and nice dodge, great job avoiding watching the video :) that tells me alot.

    being politically correct in this case = having an opinion with a opposing view to yours :) right :) the cap fits alright, on your head :)))

    clear as day? I provided the criteria for my view. your turn. provide yours. you got any? I have a pretty open mind. show me evidence to the contrary, I will change my mind. I regularly do when proven wrong :) show me information that is as strong as that twitter video, it doesn't have to be another video. show me. I will check this again.

    You are aware the dude driving that beast of a car was in the army, completed basic and then somehow left the army with no recorded discharge?

    You are aware that the cia and fbi regularly recruit operatives that just finished basic training?

    You are aware that video DOES NOT SHOW IN ANY DETAIL THE BACK OF HIS CAR PRIOR THE THE CRASH?

    You are aware the nat guard helicopter that crashed watched the whole scene and then mysteriously fell from the sky?

    You are aware that there is a colonel (he might be a lieutenant) in the ohio national guard with the same name and almost identical facial features?

    You are aware several of the witnesses are known cia contractors that have reported on events overseas?

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    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
    sources please. please don't link wally's video again.
    , @Chris Mallory

    You are aware the dude driving that beast of a car was in the army, completed basic and then somehow left the army with no recorded discharge?

    You are aware that the cia and fbi regularly recruit operatives that just finished basic training?
     
    Where did you get that he had completed basic? It sounds like he was given an entry level separation.

    He reported for basic on Aug 11 2015 and was discharged on Dec 11 2015. Considering Army basic is 10-11 weeks, depending on how you count Zero Week, that sounds about right for a "failure to adjust" discharge after being recycled a time or two.
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  • @AndrewR
    C-ville was valuable in showing just how far the anti-white forces in government, the media and major corporations will go to squash any resistance to Jewish Supremacy.

    It was also useful in showing just how gullible and brainwashed most Americans are.

    I seldom say this but: thank god we have Donald Trump as the president. His pushback against the cucks and media whores regarding C-ville helped to plant seeds of doubt towards The Narrative in the minds of reasonable people. As a terrifying thought experiment: imagine how the last month would have played out under Madame Clinton.

    It would have never been allowed to get to this point. We would have had a major false flag, martial law would spring up in many citys, ISPs would have been restricted, and anyone thats posted anything negative or insulting towards her or the cia/deepstate would have been arrested on bs charges. The majority of people posting here, at vdare and all these other sensible sites would have just disappeared over a week. No one would know, seeing as they would have heavily restricted the internet. The MSM might make a mention of “malcontents” or “issolated white supremacists” being arrested, but that would be it.

    Trump has been a wet noodle since we elected him, but he did say the right things after the event, untill a bunch of whiney bitches cried and complained and hurt his feelings.

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  • @Ron Unz

    Just because you are prepared to jump to a conclusion wholly unwarranted by the known facts (and rather unlikely for a number of reasons)
     
    I've been too busy with my own work to spend any time investigating the issue, but there do seem to be all sorts of claims floating around in Alt-Right circles that the driver under arrest was being pursued by a mob armed with bricks and baseball bats, and in his hectic attempt to escape rear-ended another car, which constituted the crash and indirectly caused the injuries; and there are some short video clips that seem to support this. Naturally, my morning NYT+WSJ haven't provided a hint of this, but their accounts seem pretty "cagey," leaving me suspicious that they're once again covering things up and presenting a false narrative.

    I don't know whether this is the truth or a partial truth or a cover-story, but I'd be interested in hearing the perspectives of those who have put more time into trying to resolve what actually happened.

    Hi Ron,

    The only video I’ve seen alleging the armed mob meme, actually shows the car approaching a large group from behind. One of the crowd swings at the bumper – after the car passes him. It’s a short clip, and we don’t see what happens after that.

    Another (apparently next in time) video shows the car, moving down an almost empty street (and we don’t see any mob in pursuit) until it plows into the crowd that included Heather Heyer. During this video, it appears that the car drives through an intersection – where it could have turned left or right to avoid the bottleneck at the bottom of the hill (where 2 other cars had stopped). Then it reverses and moves rapidly back up the street, again passing the cross-street, until it goes out of sight.

    Perhaps police forensics can determine how much time elapsed between the 1st and 2nd videos. Then ask whether the stick to the bumper (no prior damage to car was seen in 2nd video) threw Fields (or the “real” driver, if you want to go down that rabbit hole – there should be an emoticon for tin foil hat), into such a panic that he fled at least 2 blocks, blinded by fear, until he crashed into people and cars.

    Given Fields’ reported history, his reaction to his car being smacked more likely would have been anger, not fear. And rage is a much more credible explanation for his behavior. But that is for those with all the information to decide. Of course, since many claim the authorities staged the whole thing, there will be no end to it.

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    • Replies: @Randal

    Given Fields’ reported history, his reaction to his car being smacked more likely would have been anger, not fear. And rage is a much more credible explanation for his behavior.
     
    That's quite possibly the case.

    As for the "escaping the mob" argument, it does not require him to have been actually chased down the road in question by such a mob, but rather just that he was driving around in a town full of aggressively violent thugs looking for people just like him to attack and panicked as a result. And we know that numerous people were attacked by said mob, including journalists.

    At the moment, my only real (tentative) conclusion is that it's pretty clear it was not a premeditated, planned attack. It was probably a heat of the moment incident motivated by either panic or "red mist" rage.
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  • @Randal

    the driver under arrest was being pursued by a mob armed with bricks and baseball bats, and in his hectic attempt to escape rear-ended another car, which constituted the crash and indirectly caused the injuries
     
    That's my tentative assessment of what is the most plausible explanation (though there were clearly plenty of direct impact injuries caused, whether or not Heyer herself was among those directly struck), both because of the clips that I have seen and the general circumstances - why would a man use his pride and joy car in a deliberate pre-planned murder attempt, and if he did why was he braking as he approached the crash (as was noted on one of the videos posted but subsequently removed)? Maybe he wanted to hit some of the demonstrators but not get killed himself. Given some of the reports leaked about the individual's supposed tendency towards violent temper at home it's possible he simply "red misted" at the time, or that he was indeed trying to escape, but it's not imo very likely that it was a planned act.

    However I'm aware of my own bias and I'm not dogmatic in any conclusion. This kind of incident needs a full trial for any reliable conclusions to be formed. Of course the media and political establishment need no such thing and rushed to immediate conviction and exploitation for political purposes - that's what they do. Whether we will get a fair and open trial remains to be seen. Work by people like the writer of the piece linked in a comment below the "Fat Heather Heyer Hoax" piece will be useful in forcing a fairer process than would otherwise be the case, imo.

    Regrettably I lack the skills to do the necessary investigations in such a heated environment with so much highly motivated dishonesty by skilled and well positioned technical experts likely to be involved. I will wait for the facts to seep out. I have confidence Unz.com will be a good place to follow the process and hear the side less told, anyway.

    There is other possibility. The event was staged. The maroon mini van was the major prop. We do not know who actually was driving the black dodge.

    Maroon mini van arrives at the scene 2:02min

    Ford Fisher walks by the parked maroon mini van 23:36

    Somebody else passes by the parked maroon mini van 9:03. The driver of the van visible.

    Dodge leaving the scene. Applause. Passing by police on the sidewalk. This was shot in front of the police station garage:

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    • Replies: @Randal

    There is other possibility. The event was staged.
     
    That's a possibility but would certainly count as a remarkable claim in the sense of our host's past suggestion that "remarkable claims require remarkable evidence".

    No doubt someone will apply some kind of "Revusky's butterknife" to make it all clear to us at some point.
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  • @Astuteobservor II
    I watched the fucking video where he starts to the end of his crash. there is no freaking shred of doubt in my mind that was intentional. that video shows the exact start of that fucking car. and the most damning of all, no break lights.

    https://twitter.com/brennanmgilmore/status/896434516260212737

    this is the video that convinced me that it was 100% premeditated.

    all the damage you are talking about by the bats n bricks were after he rammed his car into the 2 cars in front. the ppl around started attacking his car. this is shown in a few very close up videos.

    I don't draw conclusions base on retarded ideology like you.

    ps: please don't accuse me of being pc, ever. you might end up sounding similar to those morons who blame everything on "those damn liberals".

    this is the video that convinced me that it was 100% premeditated.

    all the damage you are talking about by the bats n bricks were after he rammed his car into the 2 cars in front. the ppl around started attacking his car. this is shown in a few very close up videos.

    Well, in that particular video clip it’s a little hard for me to see what the car actually hits since it’s at the far end of the scene. However, there are lots of different video clips in this other piece, and some of them seem to show him rear-ending that other other car:

    http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2017/09/05/heather-heyer-died-of-a-heart-attack/

    There was also a short clip in this article I’d published right after the events in question, which seems to show the same thing, and provides a defensive narrative:

    http://www.unz.com/article/narrative-collapse-is-charlottesvilles-james-alex-fields-the-next-george-zimmerman/

    Disentangling these sorts of ambiguous video evidence really isn’t my strong point, but if he crashed into that other car, wouldn’t that be more consistent with his trying to escape a mob chasing him than with his intent just to attack demonstrators? And then the car he rear-ended hit another right ahead, which then hit some of the people blocking the street in front of it, which may have caused most of the injuries.

    It seems to me if he’d actually crashed at reasonable speed directly into demonstrators, many, many more people would have been killed or severely injured, as opposed to his crashing into a car which hit another car which then hit the demonstrators.

    But I’m *really* not an expert on any of this, so don’t take my opinion very seriously…

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    • Replies: @Delinquent Snail
    You dont need to be an expert to see what happened. The dozens of videos from so many angles makes it pretty clear this wasnt a directed attack against demonstrators. Anyone thats not an idiot can come to that conclusion on their own. Problem is, America has become the america in "idiocracy". Too many drugs, too much tv, and not enough decent food has robbed this country of its once great national intelligence.
    , @Astuteobservor II
    I linked that video to show the start. That was the only video that I watched when that attack happened that shows the start. It directly runs counter to some of the people claiming the driver panicked, being attacked by bats and bricks, why he ram into the crowd. That was the reason I dug through my history to find it.

    The car wasn't attacked when he sped up. That runs completely contrary to the "new narrative" of him panicking from attack. This is a very important point. That is why I accused alot of people in the alt right trying to white wash the mass murder attempt. You can clearly tell there was zero damage to the car before he ram into the 2 cars in front of him. There are alot of videos showing the right and left side at the moment of the crash. Zero damage to the car prior to the ramming. The attacks on the car happened when he stopped after ramming into the 2 cars in front. That completely contradicts panicking from attack to his car.

    No attack prior to ramming = no panic/fear =/= speeding up trying to to get away because of panic from attacks. Also, how panicked does he have to be to ram into a huge group of people? what, knew how to reverse after ramming people down, but don't know how to before speeding up + ramming people down? makes sense to you?

    If the 2 cars in front weren't there, the numbers would be close to the france, nice attack numbers. Think about how many got injured in this attempt? a google search tells me from 18-34. Thank whatever force there is that day that there were 2 cars in his way that day.

    No need to be an expert, you and anyone can have an opinion. I am just 100% sure my opinion is 100% right on this.

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  • Torba the Geek

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  • @Wally
    But who was the real driver?

    https://youtu.be/o3De-coZyGc

    that is pretty crazy. it is just 2 guys making accusations.

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  • @Randal
    "The media could not be played."

    ps: please don’t accuse me of being pc, ever. you might end up sounding similar to those morons who blame everything on “those damn liberals”.
     

    Clearly if I think you are "being pc" I will say so. On this occasion you are obviously doing what is the politically correct and “safe” thing to do, as I noted. If you choose to interpret that as me "accusing you of being pc", that's your problem. If the cap fits, wear it, even if you find it uncomfortable.

    I don’t draw conclusions base on retarded ideology like you.
     
    It's clear as day that you are precisely drawing conclusions based upon your own ideology, from your spittle-flecked ranting about "Nazi" stuff in your original comment.

    I just played that video to make sure it was the right one when I replied to you. great, now you are computer illiterate too. need me to troubleshoot for you? dream on. and nice dodge, great job avoiding watching the video :) that tells me alot.

    being politically correct in this case = having an opinion with a opposing view to yours :) right :) the cap fits alright, on your head :)))

    clear as day? I provided the criteria for my view. your turn. provide yours. you got any? I have a pretty open mind. show me evidence to the contrary, I will change my mind. I regularly do when proven wrong :) show me information that is as strong as that twitter video, it doesn’t have to be another video. show me. I will check this again.

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    • Replies: @Delinquent Snail
    You are aware the dude driving that beast of a car was in the army, completed basic and then somehow left the army with no recorded discharge?

    You are aware that the cia and fbi regularly recruit operatives that just finished basic training?

    You are aware that video DOES NOT SHOW IN ANY DETAIL THE BACK OF HIS CAR PRIOR THE THE CRASH?

    You are aware the nat guard helicopter that crashed watched the whole scene and then mysteriously fell from the sky?

    You are aware that there is a colonel (he might be a lieutenant) in the ohio national guard with the same name and almost identical facial features?

    You are aware several of the witnesses are known cia contractors that have reported on events overseas?
    , @Randal
    "I just played that video to make sure it was the right one when I replied to you. great, now you are computer illiterate too. need me to troubleshoot for you? dream on. and nice dodge, great job avoiding watching the video :) that tells me alot."

    Your comments make it more than apparent that you hate "Nazis" and that that hatred more than likely motivates you in your jumping to conclusions in this case (though only you can know the truth of your own motivation). You assert that you've seen video evidence that justifies your convenient opinion on the facts, fine. I'm marginally interested, but I've seen numerous videos that give me no reason to think that jumping to any firm conclusion about the motivation of the driver is justified.

    You provided a link to the clip that you claim justifies your own assessment, so I'm willing to watch it, but when I click on it and it refuses to play I'm not interested enough to spend time trying to work out why, considering I've probably already seen it amongst the aforementioned numerous videos anyway. Your opinion is adequately explained by your own evident political bias anyway, and though that doesn't preclude your being correct it does suggest you lack the credibility to be taken particularly seriously on the point.

    being politically correct in this case = having an opinion with a opposing view to yours :) right :) the cap fits alright, on your head :)))
     
    "Being politically correct" is not what I wrote, but what you wrote. What I wrote is that the position you are insisting everyone should adopt is the politically correct and safe one. Which it self-evidently is, as you implicitly admitted in your own comment ("if author wants to be taken seriously, he need to stop the attempts at white washing events. calling that attempted vehicular mass murder a “car crash”, he just lost any and all support he could have gotten outside of alt right circle. ").

    clear as day? I provided the criteria for my view. your turn. provide yours. you got any? I have a pretty open mind. show me evidence to the contrary, I will change my mind. I regularly do when proven wrong :) show me information that is as strong as that twitter video, it doesn’t have to be another video. show me. I will check this again.
     
    I don't have a view in the sense that you do. My view is that we do not have sufficient information to draw firm conclusions on motivation at this point, especially in a situation such as this where so many are so strongly motivated to deceive, and especially where the authorities and all kinds of hugely well funded and well positioned people are strongly motivated to deceive. My position is that we will not have any firm basis for reaching a conclusion for some time, and probably until a trial has taken place (and maybe not even then, if it is too obviously manipulated).

    I have a general inclination to disbelieve the notion that this was a premeditated murder for the reasons I've given above, and to suspect that it was either a "red mist" situation or a heat of the moment panic action, for the reasons I set out above and on the basis of the numerous partial videos and reports I have seen. But I'm well aware of my own bias in the matter, and my assessment will certainly change as more information comes in, even when it comes from evidently intemperate "Nazi-haters" such as yourself.
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  • @The King is a Fink
    I knew nothing about Christopher Cantwell until I read this, so I went to check his wiki page.

    From wiki:

    Christopher Charles Cantwell (born November 12, 1980)[1] is an American white supremacist[2] and white nationalist[3][4] political commentator and activist.
     
    The references:

    [1] SPLC.

    Link sends you to the SPLC wikipedia page with no specific mention of Mr. Cantwell

    [2] Mark, Michelle (August 16, 2017). "The chilling worldview of a white supremacist who helped lead the Charlottesville rally shows why so many people are furious with Trump". Business Insider. Retrieved August 17, 2017.

    The link does not work.

    [3] "Charlottesville: Race and Terror". Vice News. August 16, 2017. Retrieved August 17, 2017.

    Visit Vice News' website if you want a taste of their 'reporting'.

    [4] "Facebook bans white nationalist’s accounts over hate speech". Associated Press. August 16, 2017. Retrieved August 17, 2017.

    The link does not work.

    This is how you become an official white supremacist. A few bullshit 'sources' call you names, a few mainstream sources pick up on it (but can't seem to keep their articles online) and some kind soul updates your wiki page.

    That’s how you’re identified as one, not how you become one. Why don’t you complain to Steve Bannon if you don’t like the label.

    Charlottesville: Race and Terror – VICE News

    [aka Christopher Cantwell interview]

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  • @Astuteobservor II
    I watched the fucking video where he starts to the end of his crash. there is no freaking shred of doubt in my mind that was intentional. that video shows the exact start of that fucking car. and the most damning of all, no break lights.

    https://twitter.com/brennanmgilmore/status/896434516260212737

    this is the video that convinced me that it was 100% premeditated.

    all the damage you are talking about by the bats n bricks were after he rammed his car into the 2 cars in front. the ppl around started attacking his car. this is shown in a few very close up videos.

    I don't draw conclusions base on retarded ideology like you.

    ps: please don't accuse me of being pc, ever. you might end up sounding similar to those morons who blame everything on "those damn liberals".

    But who was the real driver?

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    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
    that is pretty crazy. it is just 2 guys making accusations.
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  • @Mark Green
    Great article. Balanced. Insightful. Accurate.

    The collusion between antifa extremists, law enforcement, state and local governments and (or course) the (((mainstream media))) is a scandal of epic proportions.

    We must penetrate and unmask the kosher cabal that seeks to dismantle white America. We know who our core adversaries are. Zionist operatives cannot stop us.

    There’s no better way to fight back than exposing the fake ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’.

    [MORE]

    The Usual Enemies of Free Speech use that as a shield for everything, fake as it is.

    join us:

    The ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    see the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here:

    http://codoh.com

    No name calling, level playing field debate here:

    http://forum.codoh.com

    We’re talking about an alleged ’6M Jews & 5M others’ … 11,000,000.
    There is not a single verifiable excavated enormous mass grave with contents actually SHOWN, not just claimed, (recall the claim of 900,000 buried at Treblinka, 1,250,000 at Auschwitz, or 250,000 at Sobibor, 34,000 at Babi Yar) even though Jews claim they still exist and claim to know exactly where these alleged enormous mass graves are.

    Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the ridiculous ‘holocaust’ storyline is the message.

    “Some stories are true that never happened.”
    - Elie Wiesel

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  • @Astuteobservor II
    I watched the fucking video where he starts to the end of his crash. there is no freaking shred of doubt in my mind that was intentional. that video shows the exact start of that fucking car. and the most damning of all, no break lights.

    https://twitter.com/brennanmgilmore/status/896434516260212737

    this is the video that convinced me that it was 100% premeditated.

    all the damage you are talking about by the bats n bricks were after he rammed his car into the 2 cars in front. the ppl around started attacking his car. this is shown in a few very close up videos.

    I don't draw conclusions base on retarded ideology like you.

    ps: please don't accuse me of being pc, ever. you might end up sounding similar to those morons who blame everything on "those damn liberals".

    “The media could not be played.”

    ps: please don’t accuse me of being pc, ever. you might end up sounding similar to those morons who blame everything on “those damn liberals”.

    Clearly if I think you are “being pc” I will say so. On this occasion you are obviously doing what is the politically correct and “safe” thing to do, as I noted. If you choose to interpret that as me “accusing you of being pc”, that’s your problem. If the cap fits, wear it, even if you find it uncomfortable.

    I don’t draw conclusions base on retarded ideology like you.

    It’s clear as day that you are precisely drawing conclusions based upon your own ideology, from your spittle-flecked ranting about “Nazi” stuff in your original comment.

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    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
    I just played that video to make sure it was the right one when I replied to you. great, now you are computer illiterate too. need me to troubleshoot for you? dream on. and nice dodge, great job avoiding watching the video :) that tells me alot.

    being politically correct in this case = having an opinion with a opposing view to yours :) right :) the cap fits alright, on your head :)))

    clear as day? I provided the criteria for my view. your turn. provide yours. you got any? I have a pretty open mind. show me evidence to the contrary, I will change my mind. I regularly do when proven wrong :) show me information that is as strong as that twitter video, it doesn't have to be another video. show me. I will check this again.
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  • @Ron Unz

    Just because you are prepared to jump to a conclusion wholly unwarranted by the known facts (and rather unlikely for a number of reasons)
     
    I've been too busy with my own work to spend any time investigating the issue, but there do seem to be all sorts of claims floating around in Alt-Right circles that the driver under arrest was being pursued by a mob armed with bricks and baseball bats, and in his hectic attempt to escape rear-ended another car, which constituted the crash and indirectly caused the injuries; and there are some short video clips that seem to support this. Naturally, my morning NYT+WSJ haven't provided a hint of this, but their accounts seem pretty "cagey," leaving me suspicious that they're once again covering things up and presenting a false narrative.

    I don't know whether this is the truth or a partial truth or a cover-story, but I'd be interested in hearing the perspectives of those who have put more time into trying to resolve what actually happened.

    the driver under arrest was being pursued by a mob armed with bricks and baseball bats, and in his hectic attempt to escape rear-ended another car, which constituted the crash and indirectly caused the injuries

    That’s my tentative assessment of what is the most plausible explanation (though there were clearly plenty of direct impact injuries caused, whether or not Heyer herself was among those directly struck), both because of the clips that I have seen and the general circumstances – why would a man use his pride and joy car in a deliberate pre-planned murder attempt, and if he did why was he braking as he approached the crash (as was noted on one of the videos posted but subsequently removed)? Maybe he wanted to hit some of the demonstrators but not get killed himself. Given some of the reports leaked about the individual’s supposed tendency towards violent temper at home it’s possible he simply “red misted” at the time, or that he was indeed trying to escape, but it’s not imo very likely that it was a planned act.

    However I’m aware of my own bias and I’m not dogmatic in any conclusion. This kind of incident needs a full trial for any reliable conclusions to be formed. Of course the media and political establishment need no such thing and rushed to immediate conviction and exploitation for political purposes – that’s what they do. Whether we will get a fair and open trial remains to be seen. Work by people like the writer of the piece linked in a comment below the “Fat Heather Heyer Hoax” piece will be useful in forcing a fairer process than would otherwise be the case, imo.

    Regrettably I lack the skills to do the necessary investigations in such a heated environment with so much highly motivated dishonesty by skilled and well positioned technical experts likely to be involved. I will wait for the facts to seep out. I have confidence Unz.com will be a good place to follow the process and hear the side less told, anyway.

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    • Replies: @utu
    There is other possibility. The event was staged. The maroon mini van was the major prop. We do not know who actually was driving the black dodge.

    Maroon mini van arrives at the scene 2:02min
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6f-_aY4lSXI

    Ford Fisher walks by the parked maroon mini van 23:36
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePsK0dpyu4g

    Somebody else passes by the parked maroon mini van 9:03. The driver of the van visible.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESHIrLb7xxM&t=553s

    Dodge leaving the scene. Applause. Passing by police on the sidewalk. This was shot in front of the police station garage:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0_vGhASjtU
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  • @Randal

    calling that attempted vehicular mass murder a “car crash”
     
    Just because you are prepared to jump to a conclusion wholly unwarranted by the known facts (and rather unlikely for a number of reasons) does not mean everyone else has to do the same, even if it's the politically correct and "safe" thing to do.

    I watched the fucking video where he starts to the end of his crash. there is no freaking shred of doubt in my mind that was intentional. that video shows the exact start of that fucking car. and the most damning of all, no break lights.

    this is the video that convinced me that it was 100% premeditated.

    all the damage you are talking about by the bats n bricks were after he rammed his car into the 2 cars in front. the ppl around started attacking his car. this is shown in a few very close up videos.

    I don’t draw conclusions base on retarded ideology like you.

    ps: please don’t accuse me of being pc, ever. you might end up sounding similar to those morons who blame everything on “those damn liberals”.

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    • Replies: @Randal
    "The media could not be played."

    ps: please don’t accuse me of being pc, ever. you might end up sounding similar to those morons who blame everything on “those damn liberals”.
     

    Clearly if I think you are "being pc" I will say so. On this occasion you are obviously doing what is the politically correct and “safe” thing to do, as I noted. If you choose to interpret that as me "accusing you of being pc", that's your problem. If the cap fits, wear it, even if you find it uncomfortable.

    I don’t draw conclusions base on retarded ideology like you.
     
    It's clear as day that you are precisely drawing conclusions based upon your own ideology, from your spittle-flecked ranting about "Nazi" stuff in your original comment.
    , @Wally
    But who was the real driver?

    https://youtu.be/o3De-coZyGc
    , @Ron Unz

    this is the video that convinced me that it was 100% premeditated.

    all the damage you are talking about by the bats n bricks were after he rammed his car into the 2 cars in front. the ppl around started attacking his car. this is shown in a few very close up videos.
     
    Well, in that particular video clip it's a little hard for me to see what the car actually hits since it's at the far end of the scene. However, there are lots of different video clips in this other piece, and some of them seem to show him rear-ending that other other car:

    http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2017/09/05/heather-heyer-died-of-a-heart-attack/

    There was also a short clip in this article I'd published right after the events in question, which seems to show the same thing, and provides a defensive narrative:

    http://www.unz.com/article/narrative-collapse-is-charlottesvilles-james-alex-fields-the-next-george-zimmerman/

    Disentangling these sorts of ambiguous video evidence really isn't my strong point, but if he crashed into that other car, wouldn't that be more consistent with his trying to escape a mob chasing him than with his intent just to attack demonstrators? And then the car he rear-ended hit another right ahead, which then hit some of the people blocking the street in front of it, which may have caused most of the injuries.

    It seems to me if he'd actually crashed at reasonable speed directly into demonstrators, many, many more people would have been killed or severely injured, as opposed to his crashing into a car which hit another car which then hit the demonstrators.

    But I'm *really* not an expert on any of this, so don't take my opinion very seriously...
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  • @Randal

    calling that attempted vehicular mass murder a “car crash”
     
    Just because you are prepared to jump to a conclusion wholly unwarranted by the known facts (and rather unlikely for a number of reasons) does not mean everyone else has to do the same, even if it's the politically correct and "safe" thing to do.

    Just because you are prepared to jump to a conclusion wholly unwarranted by the known facts (and rather unlikely for a number of reasons)

    I’ve been too busy with my own work to spend any time investigating the issue, but there do seem to be all sorts of claims floating around in Alt-Right circles that the driver under arrest was being pursued by a mob armed with bricks and baseball bats, and in his hectic attempt to escape rear-ended another car, which constituted the crash and indirectly caused the injuries; and there are some short video clips that seem to support this. Naturally, my morning NYT+WSJ haven’t provided a hint of this, but their accounts seem pretty “cagey,” leaving me suspicious that they’re once again covering things up and presenting a false narrative.

    I don’t know whether this is the truth or a partial truth or a cover-story, but I’d be interested in hearing the perspectives of those who have put more time into trying to resolve what actually happened.

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    • Replies: @Randal

    the driver under arrest was being pursued by a mob armed with bricks and baseball bats, and in his hectic attempt to escape rear-ended another car, which constituted the crash and indirectly caused the injuries
     
    That's my tentative assessment of what is the most plausible explanation (though there were clearly plenty of direct impact injuries caused, whether or not Heyer herself was among those directly struck), both because of the clips that I have seen and the general circumstances - why would a man use his pride and joy car in a deliberate pre-planned murder attempt, and if he did why was he braking as he approached the crash (as was noted on one of the videos posted but subsequently removed)? Maybe he wanted to hit some of the demonstrators but not get killed himself. Given some of the reports leaked about the individual's supposed tendency towards violent temper at home it's possible he simply "red misted" at the time, or that he was indeed trying to escape, but it's not imo very likely that it was a planned act.

    However I'm aware of my own bias and I'm not dogmatic in any conclusion. This kind of incident needs a full trial for any reliable conclusions to be formed. Of course the media and political establishment need no such thing and rushed to immediate conviction and exploitation for political purposes - that's what they do. Whether we will get a fair and open trial remains to be seen. Work by people like the writer of the piece linked in a comment below the "Fat Heather Heyer Hoax" piece will be useful in forcing a fairer process than would otherwise be the case, imo.

    Regrettably I lack the skills to do the necessary investigations in such a heated environment with so much highly motivated dishonesty by skilled and well positioned technical experts likely to be involved. I will wait for the facts to seep out. I have confidence Unz.com will be a good place to follow the process and hear the side less told, anyway.

    , @RobinG
    Hi Ron,

    The only video I've seen alleging the armed mob meme, actually shows the car approaching a large group from behind. One of the crowd swings at the bumper - after the car passes him. It's a short clip, and we don't see what happens after that.

    Another (apparently next in time) video shows the car, moving down an almost empty street (and we don't see any mob in pursuit) until it plows into the crowd that included Heather Heyer. During this video, it appears that the car drives through an intersection - where it could have turned left or right to avoid the bottleneck at the bottom of the hill (where 2 other cars had stopped). Then it reverses and moves rapidly back up the street, again passing the cross-street, until it goes out of sight.

    Perhaps police forensics can determine how much time elapsed between the 1st and 2nd videos. Then ask whether the stick to the bumper (no prior damage to car was seen in 2nd video) threw Fields (or the "real" driver, if you want to go down that rabbit hole - there should be an emoticon for tin foil hat), into such a panic that he fled at least 2 blocks, blinded by fear, until he crashed into people and cars.

    Given Fields' reported history, his reaction to his car being smacked more likely would have been anger, not fear. And rage is a much more credible explanation for his behavior. But that is for those with all the information to decide. Of course, since many claim the authorities staged the whole thing, there will be no end to it.
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  • @Astuteobservor II
    if author wants to be taken seriously, he need to stop the attempts at white washing events. calling that attempted vehicular mass murder a "car crash", he just lost any and all support he could have gotten outside of alt right circle.

    but maybe that is what you wanted? an echo chamber?

    if alt right wanted sympathy points it is very simple to get. don't wear the battle gears and stand firm in the face of antifa violence? have your ppl record that shit. if you choose to fight a melee, you longer have any morale high ground. then the attempted mass murder threw all of you under the bus and off the cliff.

    don't know the nazi flag carrier? boohoo? he was allowed in your rally + the nazi solute, so cringe worthy. then you have the mass murder wannabe. I guess you all know him right?

    ps: why is the author so emo? stop calling the opposing side beasts. the hitler salute did make the torch really stand out. nice really indeed.

    calling that attempted vehicular mass murder a “car crash”

    Just because you are prepared to jump to a conclusion wholly unwarranted by the known facts (and rather unlikely for a number of reasons) does not mean everyone else has to do the same, even if it’s the politically correct and “safe” thing to do.

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    • Replies: @Ron Unz

    Just because you are prepared to jump to a conclusion wholly unwarranted by the known facts (and rather unlikely for a number of reasons)
     
    I've been too busy with my own work to spend any time investigating the issue, but there do seem to be all sorts of claims floating around in Alt-Right circles that the driver under arrest was being pursued by a mob armed with bricks and baseball bats, and in his hectic attempt to escape rear-ended another car, which constituted the crash and indirectly caused the injuries; and there are some short video clips that seem to support this. Naturally, my morning NYT+WSJ haven't provided a hint of this, but their accounts seem pretty "cagey," leaving me suspicious that they're once again covering things up and presenting a false narrative.

    I don't know whether this is the truth or a partial truth or a cover-story, but I'd be interested in hearing the perspectives of those who have put more time into trying to resolve what actually happened.
    , @Astuteobservor II
    I watched the fucking video where he starts to the end of his crash. there is no freaking shred of doubt in my mind that was intentional. that video shows the exact start of that fucking car. and the most damning of all, no break lights.

    https://twitter.com/brennanmgilmore/status/896434516260212737

    this is the video that convinced me that it was 100% premeditated.

    all the damage you are talking about by the bats n bricks were after he rammed his car into the 2 cars in front. the ppl around started attacking his car. this is shown in a few very close up videos.

    I don't draw conclusions base on retarded ideology like you.

    ps: please don't accuse me of being pc, ever. you might end up sounding similar to those morons who blame everything on "those damn liberals".

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  • Our intentions were simple: to hear the speeches, stand by their friends, and put forth a good face for the movement. Optimism reigned following the previous night’s torch-lit march, with its moving imagery and impressive numbers against the few beasts gathered to oppose it.

    Jewish Telegraph Agency
    05 March 1933

    HIGHEST QUARTERS IN LONDON HAVE PROOF OF INTENDED MASSACRE OF JEWS, DECLARES “LONDON HERALD”

    http://www.jta.org/1933/03/05/archive/highest-quarters-in-london-have-proof-of-intended-massacre-of-jews-declares-london-herald-says-i

    London (Mar. 3)

    Today’s “Daily Herald,” which is regarded as the organ of the Parliamentary Labor Party and the British Trade Union Congress, devotes more than a page to the situation of the Jews in Germany.

    In its issue of March 1st, the “Daily Herald” had already reported details of the proposed Hitlerist plot to convert the Nazi torch-light processions ordered for next Saturday evening into a general massacre of German Jewry.

    In today’s issue, the “Daily Herald” says that the murder campaign against Jews has reached a most dangerous stage and it is only a matter of hours when tens of thousands of Jews, under the pretext of Communism and Marxism may be subjected to wholesale slaughter. It adds that “vengeance threatens every man, woman, and child in the Jewish community.”

    Let’s put dates/brackets around these terrible and oh-so-credible threats to the wellbeing of “tens of thousands of Jews” –

    Pre- torchlite march in preparation for “general massacre of German Jewry” –

    By- or on- 14 Feb. 1933, Louis Brandeis directed Rabbi Stephen Wise that “all Jews must leave Germany.”

    Post- torchlite march, when the “general massacre of German Jewry” failed to materialize, International Jewry responded by declaring war on Germany!

    By 23 March 1933, “International Jewry Declared [Economic] War on Germany,” https://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/articles/jdecwar.html with the intent to “bring Germany to its knees” and totally destabilize Germany

    WHY DID BRANDEIS ISSUE THAT DIRECTIVE that “all Jews must leave Germany?

    Was it because Jews in Germany were in mortal danger?

    In their book criticizing FDR for his failures regarding Jews, Richard Breitman and Allen Lichtman wrote:
    “Shortly after consolidating power, Nazis quelled violence against Jews . . . No German Jew was interned in a concentration camp until mid-November, 1938.”

    Why “German” Jews?
    After all, as the same JTA reports,

    on 20 Jan 1933,

    http://www.jta.org/1933/01/20/archive/demands-jewish-firms-in-poland-be-barred-from-supplying-products-to-army

    Accusing the Jews of being traitors, the National Democratic Deputy Arciszewski, in a long and vitriolic address against the Jews, demanded yesterday that the Polish Sejm forbid the placing of orders for military supplies with Jewish firms.

    That is, Jews were not perceived in a friendly manner in Poland.

    Nor in Roumania, according to February 05, 1933 report in JTA:

    http://www.jta.org/1933/02/05/archive/anti-semitic-disturbances-spreading-in-roumania-three-jews-injured-in-jassy-attack

    Anti-semitic Disturbances Spreading in Roumania; Three Jews Injured in Jassy Attack

    The disturbances in Jassy involved university students and issues of freedom to speak. After the attack in which three Jews were injured, “two who led the attack were arrested . . . and . . . special police patrols are now stationed in Jassy.”

    In Russia in 1932 – 1933, Stalin was killing millions. Present-day Jewish spokespersons like Norman Finkelstein http://www.unz.com/nfinkelstein/to-live-or-to-perish/ and Susan Liebman Butler https://www.c-span.org/video/?190721-1/dear-mr-stalin still pledge their undying fealty to Stalin.

    Meanwhile, in Germany on Feb. 05, 1933, JTA published this interesting item:

    German Jewish Leaders Declare Situation Dangerous for Jews; Stress Need for Calm

    http://www.jta.org/1933/02/05/archive/german-jewish-leaders-declare-situation-dangerous-for-jews-stress-need-for-calm

    (the opening sentence is fascinating — oops, maybe not all that fascinating: “Night of the long knife” traces to Arthurian legend https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treachery_of_the_Long_Knives#Legendary_context )

    While the “night of the long knife” has not materialized, upon Hitler’s accession to the Chancellorship, and the Nazi Storm Troops have not been incorporated in the regular police department . . .

    Note the date: Feb. 05, 1933
    Note the phrase: “Night of the long knife”
    Note the frissoned fear that failed to materialize: “Nazi Storm Troops did NOT become part of the police department.”

    COMPARE with the actual “Night of the long knives” — 30 June 1934
    What occurred on the actual “Night of the long knives?”

    https://www.britannica.com/event/Night-of-the-Long-Knives

    The SA (Storm Troopers) were killed.
    Contrary to Jewish fears, the SA was ot incorporated into the police force, but the opposite. It was eliminated. So as not to pose a threat or incite fear in Jews!

    What is one quick moral to this story?

    When did the leopard develop its spots?

    It is absolutely fascinating that JTA composed and published phrases and memes — and mendacious and demonizing statements about Germans — in those fraught years, and equally fascinating that many of the same memes and mendacious and demonizing statements are being recycled today.

    If it is true that the Past is Prologue, is it equally true that the behaviors that the same parties are performing today indicate a pattern that was carried out in the years preceding World War II, when Germany was attempting to organize its economy and revitalize its morale and culture, but Jews were intent on

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  • if author wants to be taken seriously, he need to stop the attempts at white washing events. calling that attempted vehicular mass murder a “car crash”, he just lost any and all support he could have gotten outside of alt right circle.

    but maybe that is what you wanted? an echo chamber?

    if alt right wanted sympathy points it is very simple to get. don’t wear the battle gears and stand firm in the face of antifa violence? have your ppl record that shit. if you choose to fight a melee, you longer have any morale high ground. then the attempted mass murder threw all of you under the bus and off the cliff.

    don’t know the nazi flag carrier? boohoo? he was allowed in your rally + the nazi solute, so cringe worthy. then you have the mass murder wannabe. I guess you all know him right?

    ps: why is the author so emo? stop calling the opposing side beasts. the hitler salute did make the torch really stand out. nice really indeed.

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    • Replies: @Randal

    calling that attempted vehicular mass murder a “car crash”
     
    Just because you are prepared to jump to a conclusion wholly unwarranted by the known facts (and rather unlikely for a number of reasons) does not mean everyone else has to do the same, even if it's the politically correct and "safe" thing to do.
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  • Mike Enoch Gives His Take On Charlottesville

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  • One of the better accounts of the “incident” that I have read by a participating partisan.

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  • Steve Bannon Destroyed the Comatose Charlie Rose on ’60 Minutes’

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  • Great article. Balanced. Insightful. Accurate.

    The collusion between antifa extremists, law enforcement, state and local governments and (or course) the (((mainstream media))) is a scandal of epic proportions.

    We must penetrate and unmask the kosher cabal that seeks to dismantle white America. We know who our core adversaries are. Zionist operatives cannot stop us.

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    • Replies: @Wally
    There's no better way to fight back than exposing the fake '6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers'.

    The Usual Enemies of Free Speech use that as a shield for everything, fake as it is.

    join us:

    The '6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers' are scientifically impossible frauds.
    see the 'holocaust' scam debunked here:
    http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here:
    http://forum.codoh.com

    We're talking about an alleged '6M Jews & 5M others' ... 11,000,000.
    There is not a single verifiable excavated enormous mass grave with contents actually SHOWN, not just claimed, (recall the claim of 900,000 buried at Treblinka, 1,250,000 at Auschwitz, or 250,000 at Sobibor, 34,000 at Babi Yar) even though Jews claim they still exist and claim to know exactly where these alleged enormous mass graves are.

    Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the ridiculous 'holocaust' storyline is the message.

    "Some stories are true that never happened."
    - Elie Wiesel

     

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  • @jilles dykstra
    What's new in these days ?
    Black people with the Dutch nationality feel insulted by Black Pete, the assistant of Sinterklaas, who on December 5th brings presents for children.
    That Black Pete has nothing to do with slavery, but has a heathen origin of thousands of years, the're unable to understand it.
    On the Dutch northern islands Black Pete still arrives without Sinterklaas, at quite another date, many European countries still have similar customs.
    These people with insulted feelings feel free to try to disturb an age old childrens festivity.
    We last year needed riot police and metal detectors to make the arrival of Sinterklaas, he comes by boat from Spain, on arrival he's seated on his white horse, that rides the roofs, presents through the chimneys, possible.
    Not much fun with riot police and demonstrators with loud speakers.
    That they deeply hurt the feelings of those who as children enjoyed Sinterklaas, and want their children to enjoy, it does not bother them.
    THEIR feelings are hurt, that is sufficient excuse to hurt the feelings of others.

    Well said, Jilles. Sorry to reading of the stupidity. Read of the custom as a child, or very young adolescent.

    Have you ever read the writings of Simon Shepherd? I don’t know if I have the correct spelling for the surname, but he wrote a big book, mainly about experiences and observations in Holland, the excerpts on his site, heretical dot com are interesting. I want to buying the book.

    He was also suffering being a political prisoner.

    Would posting a link to a Japanese site run by an extreme nationalist friend, but it is boring now, used to have many good collages, like so many others, now just Twit feed and faesces-book things.

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  • @Priss Factor
    Political Prisoner Cantwell.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkfpb3Az89Q

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jvSwQiQJRw

    I knew nothing about Christopher Cantwell until I read this, so I went to check his wiki page.

    From wiki:

    Christopher Charles Cantwell (born November 12, 1980)[1] is an American white supremacist[2] and white nationalist[3][4] political commentator and activist.

    The references:

    [1] SPLC.

    Link sends you to the SPLC wikipedia page with no specific mention of Mr. Cantwell

    [2] Mark, Michelle (August 16, 2017). “The chilling worldview of a white supremacist who helped lead the Charlottesville rally shows why so many people are furious with Trump”. Business Insider. Retrieved August 17, 2017.

    The link does not work.

    [3] “Charlottesville: Race and Terror”. Vice News. August 16, 2017. Retrieved August 17, 2017.

    Visit Vice News’ website if you want a taste of their ‘reporting’.

    [4] “Facebook bans white nationalist’s accounts over hate speech”. Associated Press. August 16, 2017. Retrieved August 17, 2017.

    The link does not work.

    This is how you become an official white supremacist. A few bullshit ‘sources’ call you names, a few mainstream sources pick up on it (but can’t seem to keep their articles online) and some kind soul updates your wiki page.

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    • Replies: @RobinG
    That's how you're identified as one, not how you become one. Why don't you complain to Steve Bannon if you don't like the label.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIrcB1sAN8I
    Charlottesville: Race and Terror – VICE News

    [aka Christopher Cantwell interview]
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  • @Brabantian
    Re what Max North writes above:

    no one could have expected such gross negligence from law enforcement
     
    Understanding why this statement is absurd & false, is a core aspect of the problem here

    And a lesson that USA whites can learn from USA blacks, who have long experienced the US police & justice system as it has really been ... Estimates are that at least 100,000 of the USA's 2.3-million-plus prisoners are innocent, the majority of them minorities

    But now more USA whites are feeling the boot of the power of the state, tho of course many whites have also been victims of the system as well ... tho the majority white population either never knew or never quite believed the stories of USA legal & police injustice that pop up around them ... or they believed that somehow these stories were odd 'outliers' & would never apply to THEM ... the white illusions are now crumbling ... black people could have told you 'That's how it is, brutha'

    Maybe it's time for a radically different approach:

    - Focus on the brutality of the USA regime in its brutal, jailing-of-the-innocent, asset-confiscatory, life-destroying police, prison & court apparatus, & the corrupt USA mafia lawyer culture that feeds off it & maintains it, a million legal-police-judicial mafiosi long mauling many white lives (more by financial destruction) as well as black ones (more often mauled by criminal charges) ... Unite the People, not 'the Right'

    - Treat the immigration question as just one more abuse of law by the Powers That Be ... Many minorities in fact will join in common sense re immigration

    - Recognise that a large part of the 'problem' in America's cities, is (a) A drug trade fostered by the US Deep State & government itself (b) A decades-long selling of perverted 'role models' for black people sold by Hollywood & media, from the 'Blaxploitation films' to the 'Gangsta' fetish, trading on the human inclination to imitate (c) A progressively escalating police & judicial mauling of average black people, leading to many black youth feeling that they have a high likelihood of getting arrested & going to jail even if innocent, so might as well have a little enjoyment before then 'You're gonna do the time, anyway, so why not commit the crime?'

    Treat the immigration question as just one more abuse of law by the Powers That Be … Many minorities in fact will join in common sense re immigration

    The people hurt the most by uncontrolled immigration are low income blacks. Never has the Congressional Black Caucus ever come out against amnesty. If they did it would be a dead issue instantly. I met the Shaw family at a rally at Feinsten’s office in Los Angeles and asked him if he tried to contact them. The father said ALL black organizations were worse than useless on this issue.

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  • This is why right violence never works, those on the right have things to lose they like order and are generally in support of the govt that does not support them. This is what put a street nigger in control against smarter humans. The nigger doesn’t understand the risk nor really care hes got no job family house or reputation and career to lose while in prison hes already been there he is the majority in there.

    It’s even stupider for the alt right of all people to attempt this cucked shit of but but the antifa is the real racists the real violent- well duh what did you think ” by any means necessary”.And besides why are you doing battle with your enemies flunkies. Those that are disposing you are not out in the street. You are not going to get the media to portray your protest as anything other than a brownshirt scare. You might as well hit the enemy if youre going to pay the price drag them out of the universities and media centers and string them up.

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    • Agree: Kevin C.
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  • anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Police chiefs are political types who are for hire and parrot what the mayor tells them to. Police generally are mainly concerned about themselves, their income, pension and working conditions. They have their own club and care little about those outside of it except as to how it affects them. In addition the psychological portion of screening those applying to become police these days includes picking those willing to blindly follow orders. Protests and marches such as this are probably loaded with agent provocateurs on all sides who are intent on pushing things towards extremism and violence. All this comes from the top; if the political powers that be determine that the police should be even-handed and ensure a peaceful march then that’s what’ll happen. If not then people will have to wing it. The political crud that’s accrued over the past twenty-four years is going to be hard to clear out in just a couple years or so. PC has sunk deep roots into the educational system, for example, and can’t be cleared out that quickly; it’s zombie products are all around.

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  • Great article. Keep them coming. Boots on the ground sort of stuff.

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  • Whenever possible, please put “antifa” in quotes, and ideally refer to them as self-styled “antifa” . Don’t cede the language to them. They are not fighting fascism. They are Establishment thugs doing the Establishment’s dirty work.

    This is the reason they are not disciplined, controlled, or otherwise held to account by the establishment. This is the reason the establishment media shows only their side of the story.

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  • C-ville was valuable in showing just how far the anti-white forces in government, the media and major corporations will go to squash any resistance to Jewish Supremacy.

    It was also useful in showing just how gullible and brainwashed most Americans are.

    I seldom say this but: thank god we have Donald Trump as the president. His pushback against the cucks and media whores regarding C-ville helped to plant seeds of doubt towards The Narrative in the minds of reasonable people. As a terrifying thought experiment: imagine how the last month would have played out under Madame Clinton.

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    • Replies: @Delinquent Snail
    It would have never been allowed to get to this point. We would have had a major false flag, martial law would spring up in many citys, ISPs would have been restricted, and anyone thats posted anything negative or insulting towards her or the cia/deepstate would have been arrested on bs charges. The majority of people posting here, at vdare and all these other sensible sites would have just disappeared over a week. No one would know, seeing as they would have heavily restricted the internet. The MSM might make a mention of "malcontents" or "issolated white supremacists" being arrested, but that would be it.

    Trump has been a wet noodle since we elected him, but he did say the right things after the event, untill a bunch of whiney bitches cried and complained and hurt his feelings.
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  • What’s new in these days ?
    Black people with the Dutch nationality feel insulted by Black Pete, the assistant of Sinterklaas, who on December 5th brings presents for children.
    That Black Pete has nothing to do with slavery, but has a heathen origin of thousands of years, the’re unable to understand it.
    On the Dutch northern islands Black Pete still arrives without Sinterklaas, at quite another date, many European countries still have similar customs.
    These people with insulted feelings feel free to try to disturb an age old childrens festivity.
    We last year needed riot police and metal detectors to make the arrival of Sinterklaas, he comes by boat from Spain, on arrival he’s seated on his white horse, that rides the roofs, presents through the chimneys, possible.
    Not much fun with riot police and demonstrators with loud speakers.
    That they deeply hurt the feelings of those who as children enjoyed Sinterklaas, and want their children to enjoy, it does not bother them.
    THEIR feelings are hurt, that is sufficient excuse to hurt the feelings of others.

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    • Replies: @Che Guava
    Well said, Jilles. Sorry to reading of the stupidity. Read of the custom as a child, or very young adolescent.

    Have you ever read the writings of Simon Shepherd? I don't know if I have the correct spelling for the surname, but he wrote a big book, mainly about experiences and observations in Holland, the excerpts on his site, heretical dot com are interesting. I want to buying the book.

    He was also suffering being a political prisoner.

    Would posting a link to a Japanese site run by an extreme nationalist friend, but it is boring now, used to have many good collages, like so many others, now just Twit feed and faesces-book things.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @George Weinbaum
    "If the police had done their jobs". An interesting statement. They did. You fail to understand what is the job of the police.
    I remember the 1992 Los Angeles Rodney King riots. No LAPD were to be seen for three days. There is a lesson to be learned here. The Koreans in LA learned no one will protect them. Jesse Russell wrote "The Roof Korean Option" at Takimag on 7 September about Koreans protecting themselves and their property during the riots
    I saw the Koreans on rooftops on Hollywood Boulevard during the riots, armed with shotguns. Where was the LAPD? Why ask?
    Stop supporting the police. They do not work for you.
    As New York's Mayor John Lindsay said during a NY riot, "We do not shoot children in this town". The Antifa are children. Get over it.

    “The Antifa are children. Get over it.”

    No they aren’t, see photos, see the fatty that had a heart attack.

    And IF they were why were so few arrested?

    You lose either way.

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  • @Brabantian
    Re what Max North writes above:

    no one could have expected such gross negligence from law enforcement
     
    Understanding why this statement is absurd & false, is a core aspect of the problem here

    And a lesson that USA whites can learn from USA blacks, who have long experienced the US police & justice system as it has really been ... Estimates are that at least 100,000 of the USA's 2.3-million-plus prisoners are innocent, the majority of them minorities

    But now more USA whites are feeling the boot of the power of the state, tho of course many whites have also been victims of the system as well ... tho the majority white population either never knew or never quite believed the stories of USA legal & police injustice that pop up around them ... or they believed that somehow these stories were odd 'outliers' & would never apply to THEM ... the white illusions are now crumbling ... black people could have told you 'That's how it is, brutha'

    Maybe it's time for a radically different approach:

    - Focus on the brutality of the USA regime in its brutal, jailing-of-the-innocent, asset-confiscatory, life-destroying police, prison & court apparatus, & the corrupt USA mafia lawyer culture that feeds off it & maintains it, a million legal-police-judicial mafiosi long mauling many white lives (more by financial destruction) as well as black ones (more often mauled by criminal charges) ... Unite the People, not 'the Right'

    - Treat the immigration question as just one more abuse of law by the Powers That Be ... Many minorities in fact will join in common sense re immigration

    - Recognise that a large part of the 'problem' in America's cities, is (a) A drug trade fostered by the US Deep State & government itself (b) A decades-long selling of perverted 'role models' for black people sold by Hollywood & media, from the 'Blaxploitation films' to the 'Gangsta' fetish, trading on the human inclination to imitate (c) A progressively escalating police & judicial mauling of average black people, leading to many black youth feeling that they have a high likelihood of getting arrested & going to jail even if innocent, so might as well have a little enjoyment before then 'You're gonna do the time, anyway, so why not commit the crime?'

    “Estimates are that at least 100,000 of the USA’s 2.3-million-plus prisoners are innocent, the majority of them minorities.”

    Estimates by who?

    ‘Analysis of Washington Post police-shootings data reveals surprising result – nearly 2x more whites than blacks shot by police’:

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/07/18/analysis-of-washington-post-police-shootings-data-reveals-surprising-result/

    excerpts:
    - For every 10,000 white people arrested for a violent crime, 38 white people were killed by police.
    - For every 10,000 hispanic people arrested for a violent crime, 21 hispanic people were killed by police.
    - For every 10,000 black people arrested for a violent crime, 21 black people were killed by police

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    • Agree: Kyle McKenna
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  • @Brabantian
    Re what Max North writes above:

    no one could have expected such gross negligence from law enforcement
     
    Understanding why this statement is absurd & false, is a core aspect of the problem here

    And a lesson that USA whites can learn from USA blacks, who have long experienced the US police & justice system as it has really been ... Estimates are that at least 100,000 of the USA's 2.3-million-plus prisoners are innocent, the majority of them minorities

    But now more USA whites are feeling the boot of the power of the state, tho of course many whites have also been victims of the system as well ... tho the majority white population either never knew or never quite believed the stories of USA legal & police injustice that pop up around them ... or they believed that somehow these stories were odd 'outliers' & would never apply to THEM ... the white illusions are now crumbling ... black people could have told you 'That's how it is, brutha'

    Maybe it's time for a radically different approach:

    - Focus on the brutality of the USA regime in its brutal, jailing-of-the-innocent, asset-confiscatory, life-destroying police, prison & court apparatus, & the corrupt USA mafia lawyer culture that feeds off it & maintains it, a million legal-police-judicial mafiosi long mauling many white lives (more by financial destruction) as well as black ones (more often mauled by criminal charges) ... Unite the People, not 'the Right'

    - Treat the immigration question as just one more abuse of law by the Powers That Be ... Many minorities in fact will join in common sense re immigration

    - Recognise that a large part of the 'problem' in America's cities, is (a) A drug trade fostered by the US Deep State & government itself (b) A decades-long selling of perverted 'role models' for black people sold by Hollywood & media, from the 'Blaxploitation films' to the 'Gangsta' fetish, trading on the human inclination to imitate (c) A progressively escalating police & judicial mauling of average black people, leading to many black youth feeling that they have a high likelihood of getting arrested & going to jail even if innocent, so might as well have a little enjoyment before then 'You're gonna do the time, anyway, so why not commit the crime?'

    Focus on the brutality of the USA regime…

    Post this comment at iSteve and you will see how the focusing will go.

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  • At a recent false-flag-psyop film production in Charlottesville Virginia, a troupe of intern crisis-actors and minimum wage b-list drama-queens utilized a genre of melodramatic performance art, in an attempt to convince the world that a public display of roughly three-confederate and two-nazi flags represented more than just 0.0000015% of the 326,625,791 U.S. population.

    An particularly privileged 2.2% caste in America is now working overtime to fabricate an imaginary neo-nazi-mountain out of an infinitesimal neo-nazi-molehill, in an effort to ignite a lucrative “War on Fake Hate!”

    USHMM, donate and never forget fake hate.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20170905105133/https://www.ushmm.org

    Follow the money. Who benefits?

    https://www.ushmm.org/m/pdfs/042717-IRS-Form-990-FY16.pdf

    https://www.ushmm.org/m/pdfs/20160209-fy17-pres-budget-request.pdf

    SPLC, neo-carpetbaggers still milking the Southern U.S. people, 152 years later.

    https://www.splcenter.org/sites/default/files/990_103116.pdf

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  • Larp as nazi tards, get treated like nazi tards. Who knew?

    Christ y’all are a bunch of chuckleheads, and you damaged instead of helped the monuments.

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  • Expert False Flag Busters, Analyze the Charlottesville Virginia Hoax!

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  • Political Prisoner Cantwell.

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    • Replies: @The King is a Fink
    I knew nothing about Christopher Cantwell until I read this, so I went to check his wiki page.

    From wiki:

    Christopher Charles Cantwell (born November 12, 1980)[1] is an American white supremacist[2] and white nationalist[3][4] political commentator and activist.
     
    The references:

    [1] SPLC.

    Link sends you to the SPLC wikipedia page with no specific mention of Mr. Cantwell

    [2] Mark, Michelle (August 16, 2017). "The chilling worldview of a white supremacist who helped lead the Charlottesville rally shows why so many people are furious with Trump". Business Insider. Retrieved August 17, 2017.

    The link does not work.

    [3] "Charlottesville: Race and Terror". Vice News. August 16, 2017. Retrieved August 17, 2017.

    Visit Vice News' website if you want a taste of their 'reporting'.

    [4] "Facebook bans white nationalist’s accounts over hate speech". Associated Press. August 16, 2017. Retrieved August 17, 2017.

    The link does not work.

    This is how you become an official white supremacist. A few bullshit 'sources' call you names, a few mainstream sources pick up on it (but can't seem to keep their articles online) and some kind soul updates your wiki page.
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  • Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Those badge thugs really are stupid. Only a fool fights in a burning house. The charade of “Equal Rights” has evaporated. The Southrons were right and the Cuckleys of the Lincoln Log Cabin LIED. Its not about “equality” at all. Its an Anti-White Alien using dumb xenomorphs to steal your birthright and burn you out White Man. Resident Dump is with Them, and so are the dumb brigades of badge thug losers. Do not fight them in their combat gear. Get them at home. Collaborators have no rights. Let them pay the price for TREASON. The Parliament of Whores and the TREASON Uniparty are the Enemy. Civil War II is now hot. Form into groups. Hide in plain sight. Nail them at home.
    The name of the game is RETRIBUTION. Guerrilla in the Swamp. Be the Swamp Fox. Join the Mobile Infantry, Get Citizenship. Democracy is Bullshit. The Crazy Times won’t be “voted out”.

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  • “If the police had done their jobs”. An interesting statement. They did. You fail to understand what is the job of the police.
    I remember the 1992 Los Angeles Rodney King riots. No LAPD were to be seen for three days. There is a lesson to be learned here. The Koreans in LA learned no one will protect them. Jesse Russell wrote “The Roof Korean Option” at Takimag on 7 September about Koreans protecting themselves and their property during the riots
    I saw the Koreans on rooftops on Hollywood Boulevard during the riots, armed with shotguns. Where was the LAPD? Why ask?
    Stop supporting the police. They do not work for you.
    As New York’s Mayor John Lindsay said during a NY riot, “We do not shoot children in this town”. The Antifa are children. Get over it.

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    • Agree: utu, AndrewR
    • Replies: @Wally
    "The Antifa are children. Get over it."

    No they aren't, see photos, see the fatty that had a heart attack.

    And IF they were why were so few arrested?

    You lose either way.
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  • Re what Max North writes above:

    no one could have expected such gross negligence from law enforcement

    Understanding why this statement is absurd & false, is a core aspect of the problem here

    And a lesson that USA whites can learn from USA blacks, who have long experienced the US police & justice system as it has really been … Estimates are that at least 100,000 of the USA’s 2.3-million-plus prisoners are innocent, the majority of them minorities

    But now more USA whites are feeling the boot of the power of the state, tho of course many whites have also been victims of the system as well … tho the majority white population either never knew or never quite believed the stories of USA legal & police injustice that pop up around them … or they believed that somehow these stories were odd ‘outliers’ & would never apply to THEM … the white illusions are now crumbling … black people could have told you ‘That’s how it is, brutha’

    Maybe it’s time for a radically different approach:

    - Focus on the brutality of the USA regime in its brutal, jailing-of-the-innocent, asset-confiscatory, life-destroying police, prison & court apparatus, & the corrupt USA mafia lawyer culture that feeds off it & maintains it, a million legal-police-judicial mafiosi long mauling many white lives (more by financial destruction) as well as black ones (more often mauled by criminal charges) … Unite the People, not ‘the Right’

    - Treat the immigration question as just one more abuse of law by the Powers That Be … Many minorities in fact will join in common sense re immigration

    - Recognise that a large part of the ‘problem’ in America’s cities, is (a) A drug trade fostered by the US Deep State & government itself (b) A decades-long selling of perverted ‘role models’ for black people sold by Hollywood & media, from the ‘Blaxploitation films’ to the ‘Gangsta’ fetish, trading on the human inclination to imitate (c) A progressively escalating police & judicial mauling of average black people, leading to many black youth feeling that they have a high likelihood of getting arrested & going to jail even if innocent, so might as well have a little enjoyment before then ‘You’re gonna do the time, anyway, so why not commit the crime?’

    Read More
    • Agree: TomSchmidt
    • Replies: @utu
    Focus on the brutality of the USA regime...

    Post this comment at iSteve and you will see how the focusing will go.
    , @Wally
    "Estimates are that at least 100,000 of the USA’s 2.3-million-plus prisoners are innocent, the majority of them minorities."

    Estimates by who?

    'Analysis of Washington Post police-shootings data reveals surprising result – nearly 2x more whites than blacks shot by police':

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/07/18/analysis-of-washington-post-police-shootings-data-reveals-surprising-result/
    excerpts:
    - For every 10,000 white people arrested for a violent crime, 38 white people were killed by police.
    - For every 10,000 hispanic people arrested for a violent crime, 21 hispanic people were killed by police.
    - For every 10,000 black people arrested for a violent crime, 21 black people were killed by police

    , @MarkinLA
    Treat the immigration question as just one more abuse of law by the Powers That Be … Many minorities in fact will join in common sense re immigration

    The people hurt the most by uncontrolled immigration are low income blacks. Never has the Congressional Black Caucus ever come out against amnesty. If they did it would be a dead issue instantly. I met the Shaw family at a rally at Feinsten's office in Los Angeles and asked him if he tried to contact them. The father said ALL black organizations were worse than useless on this issue.
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  • Crisis in Free Speech on the Internet.

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