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All Comments / By Jack Ravenwood
 All Comments / By Jack Ravenwood
    There’s a lot of talk these days about the “Deep State,” especially among supporters of President Trump, some of whom believe that this Deep State is working hard to destroy anyone loyal to Trump, both inside and outside of the government, and ultimately, Trump himself. General Flynn was forced to resign after a media scandal...
  • @Stonehands
    Sean, another glaring mystery:

    How was Oswald allowed to re-enter the US after defecting to the USSR _during the height of the cold war?

    Bingo!

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  • @Timur The Lame
    I knew enough about the issues with respect to the JFK assassination by reading several books throughout the years but was re-introduced to the issue when a good friend gave me a book which the authoress had signed for him namely Me And Lee: How I Came To Know, Love and Lose Lee Harvey Oswald by a Judyth Vary Baker.

    My friend, who though very well read and intelligent but will always will be a sucker for hype and the prevailing dialogue exclaimed to me " you have to read this, it will blow your mind etc". Well it was a handsome looking book and of course the general topic interested me so I gave it a go.

    I wasn't too long into it before I realized that this was a bullshit account using all the old publishers tricks like accentuating the provable parts before sliding into the "interesting" material. Anyway, it turned out to be a text-book classic farrago.

    Knowing that I would eventually be discussing this book with my friend I decided to look into this author and found myself slowly immersed into the JFK conspiracy community. What an eye-opener!


    Hundreds of authors of equal stature +- of Jeff Morley, who the author of this piece seems to present as some kind of singular authority. Thousands more unpublished bloggers. Passionate and mean, dogmatic and some only mildly objective. They have been at this for a long time and EVERY conceivable angle has been debated. Witnesses debunked. Some even believed the Warren Commission.

    Needless to say for a fool like Vary Baker to enter into this cage with a ridiculous premise of being Oswald's mistress when some of the people have accounted for every minute of Oswald's life for years was a fool's errand. I read a 3000+ post on a site called EducationForum for sheer entertainment. To my surprise she defended her story with the fierceness of a mamma bear defending her cubs. It became obvious that she was mentally disturbed (pseudologia fantastica) but that didn't prevent her from attracting a small coven of equally stubborn supporters who would sooner die than take one step back when the more logical and intelligent posters presented irrefutable evidence of her inherently absurd claim.

    Anyways by some form of serendipity I learned very much about JFK, human behavior when dealing with important historical issues and that the mob will always be the mob.

    Releasing 1000 plus files will just create another Tower of Babble (pun intended). 911 and JFK will never be solved. The big boys know that too so the next big 'event' may be a real doozie.

    My two pesos-

    You are really gonna have fun with:

    Dr. Mary’s Monkey

    The 1964 murder of a nationally known cancer researcher sets the stage for this gripping exposé of medical professionals enmeshed in covert government operations over the course of three decades. Following a trail of police records, FBI files, cancer statistics, and medical journals, this revealing book presents evidence of a web of medical secret-keeping that began with the handling of evidence in the JFK assassination and continued apace, sweeping doctors into coverups of cancer outbreaks, contaminated polio vaccine, the arrival of the AIDS virus, and biological weapon research using infected monkeys.

    https://www.amazon.com/Dr-Marys-Monkey-Cancer-Causing-Assassination/dp/0977795306

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  • John F. Kennedy was an out and out internationalist (globalist) all you need to do is read his 1960 platform and speeches. There is a continual effort to try and hide this fact with false stories by Marrs and others (Executive Order 11110 and secret society speech) to a illiterate public in hopes of keeping the Jackie Onasis “Camelot” Myth alive.
    John F. Kennedy was not a liked nor well respected president during his time in office. The nation were fed up with this stumbling bumbling idiot and his disastrous administration leaving little to no chance for reelection. If it were not for the press and television he might have been impeached.

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  • The most remarkable thing about House of Cards, at this point, is that it hasn’t ended yet. The first season was great – the story of an ambitious, scheming, and profoundly immoral political couple, which afforded the audience an inside view of the workings of American politics. By the end of Season 2, it became...
  • Another strangely bold Revelation of the Method was this campaign video from 2008. “Yeah, this is who we are, whaddaya gonna do about it?”

    (They should have thought a little bit more about how that scene ends. Johnny Sac don’t look too pleased.)

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  • @TheJester
    Jack,

    Thank you for a short synopsis of the House of Cards series. I've never seen the series ... not even a quick surf through a scene to assuage any latent, casual guilt traceable to a lack of curiosity.

    However, as a principle, one ought not to have to suffer weeks, months, or years of tortured art to communicate or understand simple political truths. Indeed, it is perhaps shameful to try to frame a serious expose on the corruption in the American political system as entertainment. In the end, you justified my judgement that the series was not worth viewing.

    As an alternative to the series, there are libraries of readable historical material about the American Deep State, when it started (post Civil War), and how it works. Yes, since the Civil War, the (((tribe))) has played a major, constituent role in the secret history of how our government really works.

    As a start, I suggest Carroll Quigley's book, "Tragedy and Hope: A History of the World in Our Time".

    Go back even further. We didn’t start our revolution until the French had their ships, army and armaments on the way.

    We borrowed 13 billion in 1775 money from the French treasury. The French treasury borrowed it from the biggest banking house in Europe, the Grand Duke of Hesse and his Frankfort bankers, among whom was Mayer Rothschild and other Jews.

    So the Rothschild bankers were there at the beginning. The grand duke made a fortune, lending money to the French for the Americans and renting out his soldiers to the English. That’s how to become rich, the military industrial complex.

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  • Stopped watching HOC when guys kissed guys.

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  • @Polemeros
    Compared to the HBO version, the original Brit version plays like a Gilbert & Sullivan comedy.
    And I watch the US House of Cards as a documentary rather than a fiction.
    What amazed me is that HBO made the two sociopaths at the center of the show Democrats.

    That shocked me right from the beginning. And the Republicans don’t appear much. It’s all skullduggery among the democrats. A good touch is having Underwood do some murders himself. Clinton all the way.

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  • I propose a new law to avoid conflict of interest rules. Lawyers be banned from serving in executive and legislative branches of all governments, both state and federal. Limit them to serving only in the judicial branch.

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  • There’s a lot of talk these days about the “Deep State,” especially among supporters of President Trump, some of whom believe that this Deep State is working hard to destroy anyone loyal to Trump, both inside and outside of the government, and ultimately, Trump himself. General Flynn was forced to resign after a media scandal...
  • The JFK Onion Layer Motives and Connections Exposed:
    It gets interesting in that the JFK theme differences are generally grouped into the “Lone Nuts” and the “Conspiracy Theorists”. The “Lone Nut” themes are backing the Warren Commission Report, which is a well established lie for basically treason against the American People. The “Conspiracy Theorists” were named by the CIA because they are generally vastly wrong in their assumptions of who did what. They provide general hearsay and confusion and generally fall into treason by setting up confusion for those seeking accuracy and truth.
    So, the “Lone Nut” backers are 100 % wrong, and the “Conspiracy Theorists” are 99 % wrong in their assertions. Since these are the ones totally off the truth for the JFK hit, they are basically providing lies, confusion, and the damage; all they do is treason.

    [MORE]

    Only the 1 % get the issues straight, or partially straight for the JFK hit players involved. There was a conspiracy against JFK, but it was one of various layers of knowledge, like the layers of an Onion’s Skin for involvement going to the top echelon of the corrupt US Imperialist power elite…
    The story actually begins around the first of April 1963 when Lee Oswald returns to New Orleans and hits the ground running trying to connect with every FBI, CIA, anti-Castro movement he can find. LHO was recruited for a “deep cover” mission by the US DOJ’s Bobby Kennedy. He picks up his former associates like David Ferrie, who is the lead for this Cancer Project and LHO quickly becomes part of that, Part of the Guy Banister bait to local pro-Castro and Anti-Castro people in New Orleans. LHO is right in the middle of all the National Security assets in New Orleans and right with the New Orleans Trade Mart Building. LHO got a check from the FBI, he got cash from the CIA in the Masonic Office building, and was connected with Mafia via David Ferrie, and serious Masonic anti-Communist former FBI Chief Guy Banister, who gave him office space.
    Before LHO came to New Orleans he was recruited by none other than RFK and the Kennedy’s need to go after the CIA and their Mafia alliances they wanted cut into a million pieces because of their extensive corruptions and trying to control the US from within. LHO peeled the onion skins back in a short time. LHO was supplying the Kennedy’s with the information they needed and when discovered he was a greater enemy to the CIA and the Mafia than the Kennedy’s and he was as dead as JFK when the Mafia and CIA found their mole. As the Castro project failed, LHO was pushed to Dallas and set up as the Patsy fame up person for shooting JFK by the Mafia’s Jack Ruby and the CIA.
    One obvious and simple truth is the inner layer of the onion skin is that JFK was killed by the Giancana gang using shooters Nicoletti and Files. That was mainly the Mafia hated JFK and they tried multiple times to try to kill JFK. Dallas was a bigger deal needed to insure they killed him this time around. For the shooters it was a paying job for murder, and for Giancana it was hate of the Kennedy’s. The lowest level had help from the highest level to insure JFK was a sitting duck for murder.
    The Marcello and Giancana Mafia man in Dallas, the soon to become murderer Jack Ruby, was solicited to be the JFK hit set-up man in Dallas. Ruby was going to become a “Tough Guy” and show the “Jews have Guts”. It was more like he was felony stupid, as the hit turned into the Keystone Cops of screw ups. The CIA tends to use a bunch of criminal screw up types, and they hit the jackpot with Ruby. Ruby was in debt to the Mafia and it appears he had to prove his worth, so he took the high risk job. He was also considered a pariah over being the gun runner to Castro that came to force the Mafia and US Companies out of Cuba. Ruby came into a wad of money from the Los Vegas Mafia. Ruby was the connection that called the Giancana gang and invited them to Dallas for a sure thing hit on JFK and had that arranged by being well connected with corrupt Texan and US Secret Service head LBJ.
    Jack Ruby was also in the CIA as a gun runner to Castro’s Cuba and actually helped Castro to take over Cuba and then have it become Communist and kick out all his Mafia gangs in Cuba, not to mention have all US assets in Cuba Nationalized, then nearly getting the US East Coast blown off the map in the Cuban Missile Crisis. A lot of folks considered Jack Ruby to be an expendable CIA and Mafia screw up. LHO knew all about the extremely corrupt and stupid Jack Ruby. Ruby was ordered to kill LHO, else Ruby would be killed for his serious screw ups with LHO.
    The criminal sociopath LBJ was “IN” on the Mafia’s hit as JFK was going to kick LBJ off the next ticket and LIFE Magazine was going to ruin LBJ’s career and toss him into jail.. LBJ ran the Secret Service, which made it easy to set up the JFK parade route and make fake SS credentials for the hit teams. LBJ even knew to duck down in his Limo as it turned in front of the Dal-Tex firing line, as witness by lots of the motorcycle escort Police.
    The next layers of the Onion involved both LBJ and Ruby highly backed Jewish issues and hated JFK for wanting to make Israel’s agents and others register as “Foreign Agents” in the US. Also, that JFK was enforcing nuclear non-proliferation on Israel and its Dimona Nuclear Weapons plant involving a French Reactor System. JFK had convinced France’s Charles DeGaulle to stop helping the Israelis on the Dimona Nuclear Weapons efforts. LBJ would be just the opposite of JFK, so Ruby backed LBJ in his efforts to have the Mafia kill JFK. Ruby was Mafia, Ruby backed Israel and everything Jewish. LBJ was a criminal, LBJ back Israel and Jewish folks in Texas,and parts of the SS and the CIA backed LBJ. Lots of onion layers due to many synergism issues for JFK’s death.
    The Next onion layer was Military Industrial Networks Oak Ridge National Lab’s Mason Raymond W. Tucker, Sr. had Jack Ruby become the front man in Dallas to have the Giancana killers come to Dallas. Ruby was also in cahoots with LBJ and the Secret Service to manage the parade route and supply the SS ID’s for the killers and other coordinators like the Radio Dispatch and communication by Lansky’s man Jim Braden. Meyer Lansky’s Jim Braden easily put out the Police Radio’s APB for LHO’s description.
    The Top Onion Layer is the Truman “Deep State” Masons that try to dominate and control all US Govt agencies. It is also the US State Dept that have all these English Imperialism backing types that stay on from Presidency to Presidency for 50 years. Oak Ridge and their nuclear weapons are a huge element of the Military Industrial Network and JFK was aiming to severely cut nuclear weapons due to his successes on the Atmospheric Test Band. JFK was murdered just shortly after the “Nuclear Test Ban Treaty,” as it so angered the Oak Ridge Bomb makers. The Oak Ridge element acted to eliminate Peace Seeking JFK via contact with CIA’s Jack Ruby in Dallas. This is why ORNL’s Raymond W. Tucker, Sr. got Jack Ruby involved to get JFK replaced with corrupt LBJ.
    Oak Ridge also was involved with the New Orleans method to kill Fidel Castro using an exotic method of radiation and cancer virus to make it appear Castro died of Cancer. Oak Ridge was the Manhattan Projects main center for Radiation Health Physics, which was consulted by Lee Harvey Oswald in the Summer of 1963 for that New Orleans Project involving Dr Alton Oschner, Dr. Mary Sherman, David Ferrie, LHO, and Judy Baker.
    Oak Ridge was found out and they expected to go that same route of destruction by JFK as the CIA. LBJ was involved in helping Ruby, plus Johnson’s Dallas New Money Imperialist Good Ole Oil buddies that all hated the JFK “FDR based New Deal” and were all about killing JFK. JFK followed FDR’s “New Deal” thinking, which would put the US “New Money” Imperialism under various Institutional Controls. A huge part of that Institutional Control was also to destroy the Company games of the CIA to make Empires with Banking’s Usury and Corporation ownership of lands and Government leaders. JFK was dumping the Rothschild’s’ Federal Reserve control over the US, as the US was headed into world peace and the end of the continuation wars for Empire Profits via Colonialism like exploitation of other countries, peoples, and their resources.
    The whole of the Onion is a country taken over from within by an out of control Imperialism, corrupt “Deep State” Masonic control of the US..Then the extreme security methods of the Manhattan Project using New York Mafia killers to keep the Manhattan Project from being disclosed to Germans in NYC. That system then becoming the wet kill operations for the CIA, and the extremes of secrecy to maintain total domination over the US.

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  • The most remarkable thing about House of Cards, at this point, is that it hasn’t ended yet. The first season was great – the story of an ambitious, scheming, and profoundly immoral political couple, which afforded the audience an inside view of the workings of American politics. By the end of Season 2, it became...
  • This belongs in category of Movies-Hollywood-Won’t-Make or MHWM. If this story involved a conservative, it’d be TV movie already. But it’s about Wasserman and her diversity hire. So, never mind. Even globo-media won’t touch it as news. Move along, nothing to see here.

    http://ace.mu.nu/archives/370871.php

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  • Jack,

    Thank you for a short synopsis of the House of Cards series. I’ve never seen the series … not even a quick surf through a scene to assuage any latent, casual guilt traceable to a lack of curiosity.

    However, as a principle, one ought not to have to suffer weeks, months, or years of tortured art to communicate or understand simple political truths. Indeed, it is perhaps shameful to try to frame a serious expose on the corruption in the American political system as entertainment. In the end, you justified my judgement that the series was not worth viewing.

    As an alternative to the series, there are libraries of readable historical material about the American Deep State, when it started (post Civil War), and how it works. Yes, since the Civil War, the (((tribe))) has played a major, constituent role in the secret history of how our government really works.

    As a start, I suggest Carroll Quigley’s book, “Tragedy and Hope: A History of the World in Our Time”.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Alden
    Go back even further. We didn't start our revolution until the French had their ships, army and armaments on the way.

    We borrowed 13 billion in 1775 money from the French treasury. The French treasury borrowed it from the biggest banking house in Europe, the Grand Duke of Hesse and his Frankfort bankers, among whom was Mayer Rothschild and other Jews.

    So the Rothschild bankers were there at the beginning. The grand duke made a fortune, lending money to the French for the Americans and renting out his soldiers to the English. That's how to become rich, the military industrial complex.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Greg Bacon

    Much more recently, it is Seth Rich, the Democratic staffer who is believed by some to be the source of the leaked Podesta emails, who was murdered in July of last year. The murder remains unsolved.
     
    The Rich murder is unsolved? Look who oversaw that case and is involved in the Imran case. Debbie Wasserman Schultz's brother, Steve Wasserman:

    Assistant Attorney for the District of Columbia Steve WASSERMAN--brother of Debbie Wasserman Schultz (DWS)--helped squash any legit investigation into the Seth Rich murder, now he's protecting his sister, Debbie Wasserman Schultz in the Awan Imran Case.

    Proof that he's her brother:

    https://twitter.com/iowa_trump/status/868678751072210944/photo/1

    That’s JFK level stuff right there.

    “Co-incidences”

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  • @Rhett Hardwick
    I recall the British House of Cards from the early 90's, seems to me it was much shorter. Probably goes to show the problem is world wide. I suppose it is, Caesar was killed by his friends.

    The original version is three seasons, with three (60-75 min) episodes each. The Brits seem to make these programs for the theatrical art–they tell a story, and move on. Hollywood does it to mint coin–and pounds every subplot into the ground.

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  • I enjoyed the hell out of this show :) there are certain parts where I thought it was stupid. or drama for the sake of drama(the rib guy getting mad at him for asking for one last rib) overall a very, very enjoyable tv show. one of the few that I watched and got hooked on :)

    alot of the stuff on this show is right on the money, except for the obvious tack on dramatic moments or plot points.

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  • anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “But the Christian tradition has long taught that there are layers of meaning and truth in a text, in a story, and the literal interpretation is the least important of these.”

    Because the literal interpretation of Christian tradition is Paganism, Polytheism and Idolatery, it is spun as least important.

    LOL at the deluded fools who buy into that.

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  • If you had seen the original british production you would know the ending, they certainly are stretching the middle because hey its hollywood and they like money

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  • Compared to the HBO version, the original Brit version plays like a Gilbert & Sullivan comedy.
    And I watch the US House of Cards as a documentary rather than a fiction.
    What amazed me is that HBO made the two sociopaths at the center of the show Democrats.

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    • Replies: @Alden
    That shocked me right from the beginning. And the Republicans don't appear much. It's all skullduggery among the democrats. A good touch is having Underwood do some murders himself. Clinton all the way.
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  • Other than that self-serving book that she is touting, we haven’t heard much lately from Madame or the Husband of Record. Rumor has it that they have lawyered up –just in case–and are under orders to keep their mouths shut. Which is a tall order for those two.

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  • Art says:

    “The Boss” was a great tv series about a mayor of Chicago. The first season was excellent – great writing – outstanding acting. Kelsey Grammer was great. The mayor and his wife were terrible people – it showed politics and media at their worst (probably truest).

    Youtube blurb.

    Mayor Tom Kane (Golden Globe® winner Kelsey Grammer) is King of Chicago, and he rules his domain with an iron fist. Deception, scandal, and betrayal go hand in hand with Kane’s form of politics. As long as he gets the job done, the people of Chicago look the other way. Despite being the most effective mayor in recent history, Kane is hiding a dark secret. A degenerative brain disorder is ripping everything away from him, and he can’t trust his memory, his closest allies, or even himself. Watch as Kane viciously fights battles on all fronts in “Boss” Season 1.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2we3qTPNNk

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  • @Anonymous White Male
    House of Cards was originally derived from a British TV show of the same name. In the end, the Underwood character is killed, with participation of his wife in the death. I always assumed that they would end it the same way here. But, now they have the new narrative, in which a female is now the President. It is necessary for the media to promote the feminization of reality, so this is the direction they are going. I'm sure there will be resistance by the Kevin Spacey character due, of course, to his self-entitled White male vision of himself, so Claire may have him killed. But, I don't think this will be continued through the Trump presidency. I think Kevin Spacey is getting bored and never had any intention of the series continuing as long as it has. We'll see.

    I recall the British House of Cards from the early 90′s, seems to me it was much shorter. Probably goes to show the problem is world wide. I suppose it is, Caesar was killed by his friends.

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    • Replies: @Forbes
    The original version is three seasons, with three (60-75 min) episodes each. The Brits seem to make these programs for the theatrical art--they tell a story, and move on. Hollywood does it to mint coin--and pounds every subplot into the ground.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • House of Cards was originally derived from a British TV show of the same name. In the end, the Underwood character is killed, with participation of his wife in the death. I always assumed that they would end it the same way here. But, now they have the new narrative, in which a female is now the President. It is necessary for the media to promote the feminization of reality, so this is the direction they are going. I’m sure there will be resistance by the Kevin Spacey character due, of course, to his self-entitled White male vision of himself, so Claire may have him killed. But, I don’t think this will be continued through the Trump presidency. I think Kevin Spacey is getting bored and never had any intention of the series continuing as long as it has. We’ll see.

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    • Replies: @Rhett Hardwick
    I recall the British House of Cards from the early 90's, seems to me it was much shorter. Probably goes to show the problem is world wide. I suppose it is, Caesar was killed by his friends.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Much more recently, it is Seth Rich, the Democratic staffer who is believed by some to be the source of the leaked Podesta emails, who was murdered in July of last year. The murder remains unsolved.

    The Rich murder is unsolved? Look who oversaw that case and is involved in the Imran case. Debbie Wasserman Schultz’s brother, Steve Wasserman:

    Assistant Attorney for the District of Columbia Steve WASSERMAN–brother of Debbie Wasserman Schultz (DWS)–helped squash any legit investigation into the Seth Rich murder, now he’s protecting his sister, Debbie Wasserman Schultz in the Awan Imran Case.

    Proof that he’s her brother:

    https://twitter.com/iowa_trump/status/868678751072210944/photo/1

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    • Replies: @El Dato
    That's JFK level stuff right there.

    "Co-incidences"
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  • It is no stretch of the imagination to equate Frank and Claire with Bill and Hillary. But Trump has few of the political, sexual, moral characteristics displayed by the Underwoods……but Tusk, hmmmmm.

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  • What might happen is that House of Cards will end around the same time as the Trump presidency.

    It ought to make a tidy sum in syndication, then, after a 13-year run like that.

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  • And Washington will go on being, in the words of President Underwood, “a bunch of self-serving, money-hungry, boot-licking, power-seeking politicians who can be seduced, or sucker-punched, or blackmailed into submission.”

    I’m sure that few of them need to be forced into submission; they appear to be pretty much a pack of willing accomplices, yet people still keep the faith.

    Go figure.

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  • A willing suspension of belief, in contrast to the old-fashioned version that used disbelief. Such is what passes for a core tenet of media.

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  • There’s a lot of talk these days about the “Deep State,” especially among supporters of President Trump, some of whom believe that this Deep State is working hard to destroy anyone loyal to Trump, both inside and outside of the government, and ultimately, Trump himself. General Flynn was forced to resign after a media scandal...
  • @Sam J.
    You don't think the Secret Service had anything to do with Kennedy's assassination? Well here's the smoking gun.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XY02Qkuc_f8

    This is at the turn where Kennedy went down the road and was shot. Notice around :25 the agent is holding onto the back of the limo. There's a trunk hand hold handle there and a step on the bumper. They normally stand on the bumper step, hold on to the trunk handle and ride there to stop shots from the rear. At :28 or so the agent is told to move away from his normal riding position. See how at :30 he waves his arms in a,"what's going on" motion. Right after this Kennedy was shot. What does that tell you?

    A great series on the assassination is "Evidence of Revision" a video made by a guy who collected videos, TV broadcast and what else he could find on the assassination. It's like 6 videos long and every single bit of it is real time video that he adds no commentary. He just shows you what people said that was recorded on video. If you want to know more about the Kennedy assassination it's invaluable as there's no explanations or people telling you what went on just video of the events as they unfolded.

    16,000 advisors / troops in 1963 …have no idea where you get your information
    Bay of pigs was doomed from the start and the CIA knew it had no chance. They thought that JFK would cave in and use US military to overthrow a leader that we helped put in place in Castro.
    JFK wisely did not attack Cuba and the CIA bungled another operation. The corrupt Diem was to be overthrown by his own Military as the vastly outnumbered Viet Cong were kicking the ARVN rear end do to the corruption of Diem….once again the CIA backing a corrupt leader. His death was on the Military of SVN.

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  • […] Unz Review article Trump, JFK, and the Deep State National Review Writer: Working-Class Communities ‘Deserve To Die How the best case scenario […]

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  • @NoseytheDuke
    It would appear that you have no clue whatsoever as to the difference between an M1 carbine and an M1 Garand, not Garland as you wrote. Lol, you really are just too stupid to post here at The Unz Review.

    The mail order supply ad Hidel used and obtained the Carcano through, als0 offered, among many other weapons, both an M1 carbine and an M1 rifle. The M1 Garand rifle was what Oswald was familiar with from the Marines, (where he proved to be a good shot) and being a faster firing weapon Oswald had links to, one might think the CIA would have used a M1 Garand rifle–all the better to convince the world that Lee Harvey man did it.

    The fiendishly cunning CIA obviously used the cheapest and least effective foreign rifle they could so as to convince the the stupid people that because such a gun would never have been used by a team of trained professional assassins and would be unlikely to be used by an lone ex Marine intent on murder, let alone a stupendous world shaking assassination, just because it was very cheap. Th very implausibility of such a penny pinching choice made it more likely to be seen as not fabricated, but rather one of those things that happen in this crazy old world. The CIA were not worried about convincing the smart people like you, and must be regretting that now.

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  • @Sean
    Yes, a M1 carbine just like one of the wide variety that was offered by Kleins sporting goods of Chicago mail order ads, which had many weapons such as a M1 carbine mail order for 78 dollars, and a a M1 rifle (Garland ) that the same ad offered for 90 dollars.but Hidel selected another rifle from the many available. Hidel chose a Carcano with scope for a total of 20 dollars.

    Alden pertinently brought up that our boy was only earning 25 dollars a week, so it certainly is a mystery why the CIA did not give him a raise so he could buy the M1 eight shot automatic rifle similar to the one he trained with and used on the test when he was rated sharpshooter. |It would have been cheaper in the sense they they could have laid off all those other gunmen like Woody Harilson's dad on the bridge and the one behind the fence (who was very exposed), to say nothing of the drivers, lookouts, and fake Secret Service running interference.

    On the other hand the Carcano did a hell of a job. Tests showed a single bullet can do what Popkin said it could not, if it is a Carcaco bullet , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1H-PNsGtNLA

    See there is a reason why I brought up the M1 carbine. I also brought up the Addison's disease that JFK lied about not having and that explains why there was no proper autopsy-- he had the tell tale no adrenal glands). Moreover I brought up Popkin, and whether you know it or not he originated almost all the points still being made for it being literally impossible that Oswald-with-a-rifle-on his lunchbreak could have single handedly killed JFK .

    If JFK had lived his reputation would be toast, The man himself said not long before the assassination that he needed to be killed for his myth to live on. Kennedy, a speed addict by the way ( http://nypost.com/2013/04/21/the-kennedy-meth/) in addition to all the cortisol and testosterone sent troops to nam intending to withdraw them, because he clearly sent US troops into Vietnam with the intention of fighting a quick victorious campaign, thereby troops would be withdrawn. This is is he same fellow who Caused the Cuba crisis with his insane pursuing of the idiot Eisenhower's plan to give Germany nuclear weapons. He provoked Russia to the very brink of nuclear war, and was not finished with Cuba, yet people think he was going to quit Vietnam. I still think Oswald was better at being an assassin that Kennedy was at being a president.

    It would appear that you have no clue whatsoever as to the difference between an M1 carbine and an M1 Garand, not Garland as you wrote. Lol, you really are just too stupid to post here at The Unz Review.

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    • Replies: @Sean
    The mail order supply ad Hidel used and obtained the Carcano through, als0 offered, among many other weapons, both an M1 carbine and an M1 rifle. The M1 Garand rifle was what Oswald was familiar with from the Marines, (where he proved to be a good shot) and being a faster firing weapon Oswald had links to, one might think the CIA would have used a M1 Garand rifle--all the better to convince the world that Lee Harvey man did it.

    The fiendishly cunning CIA obviously used the cheapest and least effective foreign rifle they could so as to convince the the stupid people that because such a gun would never have been used by a team of trained professional assassins and would be unlikely to be used by an lone ex Marine intent on murder, let alone a stupendous world shaking assassination, just because it was very cheap. Th very implausibility of such a penny pinching choice made it more likely to be seen as not fabricated, but rather one of those things that happen in this crazy old world. The CIA were not worried about convincing the smart people like you, and must be regretting that now.

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  • @Timur The Lame
    I knew enough about the issues with respect to the JFK assassination by reading several books throughout the years but was re-introduced to the issue when a good friend gave me a book which the authoress had signed for him namely Me And Lee: How I Came To Know, Love and Lose Lee Harvey Oswald by a Judyth Vary Baker.

    My friend, who though very well read and intelligent but will always will be a sucker for hype and the prevailing dialogue exclaimed to me " you have to read this, it will blow your mind etc". Well it was a handsome looking book and of course the general topic interested me so I gave it a go.

    I wasn't too long into it before I realized that this was a bullshit account using all the old publishers tricks like accentuating the provable parts before sliding into the "interesting" material. Anyway, it turned out to be a text-book classic farrago.

    Knowing that I would eventually be discussing this book with my friend I decided to look into this author and found myself slowly immersed into the JFK conspiracy community. What an eye-opener!


    Hundreds of authors of equal stature +- of Jeff Morley, who the author of this piece seems to present as some kind of singular authority. Thousands more unpublished bloggers. Passionate and mean, dogmatic and some only mildly objective. They have been at this for a long time and EVERY conceivable angle has been debated. Witnesses debunked. Some even believed the Warren Commission.

    Needless to say for a fool like Vary Baker to enter into this cage with a ridiculous premise of being Oswald's mistress when some of the people have accounted for every minute of Oswald's life for years was a fool's errand. I read a 3000+ post on a site called EducationForum for sheer entertainment. To my surprise she defended her story with the fierceness of a mamma bear defending her cubs. It became obvious that she was mentally disturbed (pseudologia fantastica) but that didn't prevent her from attracting a small coven of equally stubborn supporters who would sooner die than take one step back when the more logical and intelligent posters presented irrefutable evidence of her inherently absurd claim.

    Anyways by some form of serendipity I learned very much about JFK, human behavior when dealing with important historical issues and that the mob will always be the mob.

    Releasing 1000 plus files will just create another Tower of Babble (pun intended). 911 and JFK will never be solved. The big boys know that too so the next big 'event' may be a real doozie.

    My two pesos-

    The recent high tech test of Oswald’s rifle showed a single bullet could do what experts thought impossible. There are odd things about 911, but reality is so deep there are always surprises possible.

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  • @bluedog
    Now wait a minute just where's the proof that he was making only $25.00 per week just because some nut post that its so don't make it so,and of course there was a PROPER autopsy in Maryland and as the man that took the photo's stated the room was full of brass from all the services, but he was told not to take any pictures from the shoulders up,he did he died as many others did that were involved..

    Oswald used a clunky Italian bolt action when he could have had a M1 rifle, the only possible reason was the cheapness of the Italian rifle and Oswald being broke when he bought it . Unless that is the CIA knew that bullets from the Italian rifle had the extraordinary characteristic of being stable going through bodies but tumbling in air, as was was found out decades later (

    ) and that people would be convinced a bullet could NOT change direction in mid air WOULD SPEND DECADES CONVINCED THEY and only they knew what really happened

    That is quite true about the autopsy the Kennedy but it wasn’t generals behind the autopsy being done peculiarly, the Kennedy circle had his corpse taken to a Navy hospital so the autopsy could be prevented from examining his adrenal glands and fing he didn’t have any (a sign of Addison’s disease. Camelot did not want it known that he had ,.Addison’s disease and a proper autopsy would have disclosed he had it it and therefore had lied to the American people when he officially denied having it. Kennedy was puffed up like a bullfrog physically and mentally by the cortisol (a film, Bigger than Life starring james Hason is about the megalomania caused by cortisol treatment), he was also taking testosterone, which has well known effects, but WHILE PRES he also waS OFTEN OFF HIS ROCKER ON SPEED TO THE THE EXTENT HE RAN NAKED THOUGH HOTEL CORRIDORS AND HAD TO BE RESTRAINED.

    http://nypost.com/2013/04/21/the-kennedy-meth/In 1962, at the Carlyle Hotel in New York, a man “peeled off his clothing and began prancing around his hotel suite.” His bodyguards were cautiously amused, until the man “left the suite and began roaming through the corridor of the Carlyle.”

    The man in question was delusional, paranoid and suffering a “psychotic break” from the effects of an overdose of methamphetamine.

    He was also the president of the United States.

    The reason for John F. Kennedy’s bizarre behavior was that, according to an explosive new book, the president was — unbeknownst to him, at first — a meth addict.

    No wonder he was at like a bunny rabbit.

    Anyway Eisenhower was a general and he warned about the deep state, right? In his lack of political or government experience Trump is more comparable to Ike than JFK. It’s ludicrous to say Trump is a representative any Big Money oil/industrial clique within the deep state . No, Trump represents something Peter Dale Scott never talks about.

    You see deep means hidden and there is nothing hidden about big money, everyone knew they run things for their own benefit. Trump was able to become leader of the nation-state called USA BY SPLITTING the state from the nation, and calling on the power of the deep nation. which is in the mass of the people, not military, economic or ideological institutions.

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  • @Sean
    Yes, a M1 carbine just like one of the wide variety that was offered by Kleins sporting goods of Chicago mail order ads, which had many weapons such as a M1 carbine mail order for 78 dollars, and a a M1 rifle (Garland ) that the same ad offered for 90 dollars.but Hidel selected another rifle from the many available. Hidel chose a Carcano with scope for a total of 20 dollars.

    Alden pertinently brought up that our boy was only earning 25 dollars a week, so it certainly is a mystery why the CIA did not give him a raise so he could buy the M1 eight shot automatic rifle similar to the one he trained with and used on the test when he was rated sharpshooter. |It would have been cheaper in the sense they they could have laid off all those other gunmen like Woody Harilson's dad on the bridge and the one behind the fence (who was very exposed), to say nothing of the drivers, lookouts, and fake Secret Service running interference.

    On the other hand the Carcano did a hell of a job. Tests showed a single bullet can do what Popkin said it could not, if it is a Carcaco bullet , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1H-PNsGtNLA

    See there is a reason why I brought up the M1 carbine. I also brought up the Addison's disease that JFK lied about not having and that explains why there was no proper autopsy-- he had the tell tale no adrenal glands). Moreover I brought up Popkin, and whether you know it or not he originated almost all the points still being made for it being literally impossible that Oswald-with-a-rifle-on his lunchbreak could have single handedly killed JFK .

    If JFK had lived his reputation would be toast, The man himself said not long before the assassination that he needed to be killed for his myth to live on. Kennedy, a speed addict by the way ( http://nypost.com/2013/04/21/the-kennedy-meth/) in addition to all the cortisol and testosterone sent troops to nam intending to withdraw them, because he clearly sent US troops into Vietnam with the intention of fighting a quick victorious campaign, thereby troops would be withdrawn. This is is he same fellow who Caused the Cuba crisis with his insane pursuing of the idiot Eisenhower's plan to give Germany nuclear weapons. He provoked Russia to the very brink of nuclear war, and was not finished with Cuba, yet people think he was going to quit Vietnam. I still think Oswald was better at being an assassin that Kennedy was at being a president.

    Now wait a minute just where’s the proof that he was making only $25.00 per week just because some nut post that its so don’t make it so,and of course there was a PROPER autopsy in Maryland and as the man that took the photo’s stated the room was full of brass from all the services, but he was told not to take any pictures from the shoulders up,he did he died as many others did that were involved..

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sean
    Oswald used a clunky Italian bolt action when he could have had a M1 rifle, the only possible reason was the cheapness of the Italian rifle and Oswald being broke when he bought it . Unless that is the CIA knew that bullets from the Italian rifle had the extraordinary characteristic of being stable going through bodies but tumbling in air, as was was found out decades later ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1H-PNsGtNLA ) and that people would be convinced a bullet could NOT change direction in mid air WOULD SPEND DECADES CONVINCED THEY and only they knew what really happened

    That is quite true about the autopsy the Kennedy but it wasn't generals behind the autopsy being done peculiarly, the Kennedy circle had his corpse taken to a Navy hospital so the autopsy could be prevented from examining his adrenal glands and fing he didn't have any (a sign of Addison's disease. Camelot did not want it known that he had ,.Addison's disease and a proper autopsy would have disclosed he had it it and therefore had lied to the American people when he officially denied having it. Kennedy was puffed up like a bullfrog physically and mentally by the cortisol (a film, Bigger than Life starring james Hason is about the megalomania caused by cortisol treatment), he was also taking testosterone, which has well known effects, but WHILE PRES he also waS OFTEN OFF HIS ROCKER ON SPEED TO THE THE EXTENT HE RAN NAKED THOUGH HOTEL CORRIDORS AND HAD TO BE RESTRAINED.


    http://nypost.com/2013/04/21/the-kennedy-meth/In 1962, at the Carlyle Hotel in New York, a man “peeled off his clothing and began prancing around his hotel suite.” His bodyguards were cautiously amused, until the man “left the suite and began roaming through the corridor of the Carlyle.”

    The man in question was delusional, paranoid and suffering a “psychotic break” from the effects of an overdose of methamphetamine.

    He was also the president of the United States.

    The reason for John F. Kennedy’s bizarre behavior was that, according to an explosive new book, the president was — unbeknownst to him, at first — a meth addict.
     

    No wonder he was at like a bunny rabbit.

    Anyway Eisenhower was a general and he warned about the deep state, right? In his lack of political or government experience Trump is more comparable to Ike than JFK. It's ludicrous to say Trump is a representative any Big Money oil/industrial clique within the deep state . No, Trump represents something Peter Dale Scott never talks about.

    You see deep means hidden and there is nothing hidden about big money, everyone knew they run things for their own benefit. Trump was able to become leader of the nation-state called USA BY SPLITTING the state from the nation, and calling on the power of the deep nation. which is in the mass of the people, not military, economic or ideological institutions.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Alden
    I was 21 when Kennedy was killed. Oswalds return to the US was all over the national newspapers for a couple weeks.

    His arrest a year or so later in New Orleans for disturbing the peace in a squabble between pro and anti Castro activists was also in the news.

    In those days conservatives were anti communists, not fuddy duddies as they are today. When the news broke out of their arrival in NYC conservatives logically assumed that the Russian wife was a sleeper agent and Oswald was too.

    So, there was notoriety upon LHO’s return. I was only 3yrs old when Kennedy was assassinated…Appreciate your recollection.

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  • @Alden
    I was 21 when Kennedy was killed. Oswalds return to the US was all over the national newspapers for a couple weeks.

    His arrest a year or so later in New Orleans for disturbing the peace in a squabble between pro and anti Castro activists was also in the news.

    In those days conservatives were anti communists, not fuddy duddies as they are today. When the news broke out of their arrival in NYC conservatives logically assumed that the Russian wife was a sleeper agent and Oswald was too.

    I was oh in my mid to late 20′s when that happened, and your probably right that that’s the way conservatives saw it (but no one else did as I recall) for they are always looking for something in the woodpile if it looks like a Ben Franklin that is…

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  • @Alden
    You don't even know what a GS 16 is do you? It's a pay scale.

    Lol of course, it is a government pay scale to be correct/…

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  • @NoseytheDuke
    Let's face it Sean, you're just too stupid/disingenuous to post here at The Unz Review. An M1 carbine LOL

    Yes, a M1 carbine just like one of the wide variety that was offered by Kleins sporting goods of Chicago mail order ads, which had many weapons such as a M1 carbine mail order for 78 dollars, and a a M1 rifle (Garland ) that the same ad offered for 90 dollars.but Hidel selected another rifle from the many available. Hidel chose a Carcano with scope for a total of 20 dollars.

    Alden pertinently brought up that our boy was only earning 25 dollars a week, so it certainly is a mystery why the CIA did not give him a raise so he could buy the M1 eight shot automatic rifle similar to the one he trained with and used on the test when he was rated sharpshooter. |It would have been cheaper in the sense they they could have laid off all those other gunmen like Woody Harilson’s dad on the bridge and the one behind the fence (who was very exposed), to say nothing of the drivers, lookouts, and fake Secret Service running interference.

    On the other hand the Carcano did a hell of a job. Tests showed a single bullet can do what Popkin said it could not, if it is a Carcaco bullet ,

    See there is a reason why I brought up the M1 carbine. I also brought up the Addison’s disease that JFK lied about not having and that explains why there was no proper autopsy– he had the tell tale no adrenal glands). Moreover I brought up Popkin, and whether you know it or not he originated almost all the points still being made for it being literally impossible that Oswald-with-a-rifle-on his lunchbreak could have single handedly killed JFK .

    If JFK had lived his reputation would be toast, The man himself said not long before the assassination that he needed to be killed for his myth to live on. Kennedy, a speed addict by the way ( http://nypost.com/2013/04/21/the-kennedy-meth/) in addition to all the cortisol and testosterone sent troops to nam intending to withdraw them, because he clearly sent US troops into Vietnam with the intention of fighting a quick victorious campaign, thereby troops would be withdrawn. This is is he same fellow who Caused the Cuba crisis with his insane pursuing of the idiot Eisenhower’s plan to give Germany nuclear weapons. He provoked Russia to the very brink of nuclear war, and was not finished with Cuba, yet people think he was going to quit Vietnam. I still think Oswald was better at being an assassin that Kennedy was at being a president.

    Read More
    • Replies: @bluedog
    Now wait a minute just where's the proof that he was making only $25.00 per week just because some nut post that its so don't make it so,and of course there was a PROPER autopsy in Maryland and as the man that took the photo's stated the room was full of brass from all the services, but he was told not to take any pictures from the shoulders up,he did he died as many others did that were involved..
    , @NoseytheDuke
    It would appear that you have no clue whatsoever as to the difference between an M1 carbine and an M1 Garand, not Garland as you wrote. Lol, you really are just too stupid to post here at The Unz Review.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @bluedog
    Hmm wondered why you were so brainwashed now I know you have been thru the government mill the GS16...

    You don’t even know what a GS 16 is do you? It’s a pay scale.

    Read More
    • Replies: @bluedog
    Lol of course, it is a government pay scale to be correct/...
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Stonehands

    Um, there is no law or precedent to prevent a defector or any kind of ex pat from returning to the USA.
     
    While this may be the case for hippie backpackers in Cambodia- I would think that the return of a Soviet defector would be national news blared by the vaunted citadels of freedom like the Washington Post... In addition to drawing the collective stink-eye of myriad surveillance agencies...Like you stated, how the hell were the wife and child allowed to leave?

    I was 21 when Kennedy was killed. Oswalds return to the US was all over the national newspapers for a couple weeks.

    His arrest a year or so later in New Orleans for disturbing the peace in a squabble between pro and anti Castro activists was also in the news.

    In those days conservatives were anti communists, not fuddy duddies as they are today. When the news broke out of their arrival in NYC conservatives logically assumed that the Russian wife was a sleeper agent and Oswald was too.

    Read More
    • Replies: @bluedog
    I was oh in my mid to late 20's when that happened, and your probably right that that's the way conservatives saw it (but no one else did as I recall) for they are always looking for something in the woodpile if it looks like a Ben Franklin that is...
    , @Stonehands
    So, there was notoriety upon LHO's return. I was only 3yrs old when Kennedy was assassinated...Appreciate your recollection.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @NoseytheDuke
    Let's face it Sean, you're just too stupid/disingenuous to post here at The Unz Review. An M1 carbine LOL

    Lol damn I hit the wrong button I agree completely his mind is like a closed book unless its opened nothing can get in or out and its amazing how many are like that..

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  • @Sean
    If Kennedy had been shot with a M1 carbine, one would not have expected his brain to be literally blown out and a large part of his cranium to go flying, which it did. So while it was not a big game rifle with expanding or tumbling bullets (witness the straight through wound to his neck) he was shot with something high velocity but stable,and a rifle found at the scene fits that bill.

    The real Oswald was a trained infantryman and while the assassination was more difficult that most people allow (there were leafy trees in the way) the real Oswald had the skill to kill Kennedy.

    The real Oswald fled the scene, and then went to the movies, Hardly the behavior of an innocent man.

    Let’s face it Sean, you’re just too stupid/disingenuous to post here at The Unz Review. An M1 carbine LOL

    Read More
    • Disagree: bluedog
    • Replies: @bluedog
    Lol damn I hit the wrong button I agree completely his mind is like a closed book unless its opened nothing can get in or out and its amazing how many are like that..
    , @Sean
    Yes, a M1 carbine just like one of the wide variety that was offered by Kleins sporting goods of Chicago mail order ads, which had many weapons such as a M1 carbine mail order for 78 dollars, and a a M1 rifle (Garland ) that the same ad offered for 90 dollars.but Hidel selected another rifle from the many available. Hidel chose a Carcano with scope for a total of 20 dollars.

    Alden pertinently brought up that our boy was only earning 25 dollars a week, so it certainly is a mystery why the CIA did not give him a raise so he could buy the M1 eight shot automatic rifle similar to the one he trained with and used on the test when he was rated sharpshooter. |It would have been cheaper in the sense they they could have laid off all those other gunmen like Woody Harilson's dad on the bridge and the one behind the fence (who was very exposed), to say nothing of the drivers, lookouts, and fake Secret Service running interference.

    On the other hand the Carcano did a hell of a job. Tests showed a single bullet can do what Popkin said it could not, if it is a Carcaco bullet , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1H-PNsGtNLA

    See there is a reason why I brought up the M1 carbine. I also brought up the Addison's disease that JFK lied about not having and that explains why there was no proper autopsy-- he had the tell tale no adrenal glands). Moreover I brought up Popkin, and whether you know it or not he originated almost all the points still being made for it being literally impossible that Oswald-with-a-rifle-on his lunchbreak could have single handedly killed JFK .

    If JFK had lived his reputation would be toast, The man himself said not long before the assassination that he needed to be killed for his myth to live on. Kennedy, a speed addict by the way ( http://nypost.com/2013/04/21/the-kennedy-meth/) in addition to all the cortisol and testosterone sent troops to nam intending to withdraw them, because he clearly sent US troops into Vietnam with the intention of fighting a quick victorious campaign, thereby troops would be withdrawn. This is is he same fellow who Caused the Cuba crisis with his insane pursuing of the idiot Eisenhower's plan to give Germany nuclear weapons. He provoked Russia to the very brink of nuclear war, and was not finished with Cuba, yet people think he was going to quit Vietnam. I still think Oswald was better at being an assassin that Kennedy was at being a president.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @bluedog
    That of course with the assumption that it was the real Oswald which I very much doubt and if there was such an extreme muzzle blast which would indicate hand loads then it would have been seen by someone on the street,yet none were seen and none came forth saying they had sold Oswald any reloading material or wait lol perhaps the Russians or the Cubans or the Chinese or Mexico gave it to him.Fails to make any sense at all and yes I have read about his incident at the firing range didn't make sense then and makes no sense now...

    If Kennedy had been shot with a M1 carbine, one would not have expected his brain to be literally blown out and a large part of his cranium to go flying, which it did. So while it was not a big game rifle with expanding or tumbling bullets (witness the straight through wound to his neck) he was shot with something high velocity but stable,and a rifle found at the scene fits that bill.

    The real Oswald was a trained infantryman and while the assassination was more difficult that most people allow (there were leafy trees in the way) the real Oswald had the skill to kill Kennedy.

    The real Oswald fled the scene, and then went to the movies, Hardly the behavior of an innocent man.

    Read More
    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    Let's face it Sean, you're just too stupid/disingenuous to post here at The Unz Review. An M1 carbine LOL
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @nsa
    Yesterday, our hero Trump was photoed holding hands with a dirty unshaven saud goatherder...to show solidarity with the perps who knocked down the twin towers. At least he had the sense to hold the eating hand, and not the left butthole wiping hand. Smart guy, that Trump.......

    “…the perps who knocked down the twin towers…???”

    You mean the Bush Crime Family and their Saudi and Jewish allies? Owner of the Twin Towers, Silverstein Properties, got paid insurance money for each Tower as a separate act of “terrorism”, instead of a single act, as his insurance policy actually read! And then, Silverstein kept the property for re-development on top of that!!!

    If not for the “controlled demolition” of the Twin Towers and WTC 7, it would have been impossibly expensive to re-develop the money-losing WTC property into something that would cash flow positively.

    As any knowledgeable person knows, to find out “whodunit”, follow the money.

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  • @Alden
    Yes indeed, I'm part if the conspiracy. I'm a GS 16 assigned to spend my career lurking on the Internet debunking JFK conspiracy theories.

    Hmm wondered why you were so brainwashed now I know you have been thru the government mill the GS16…

    Read More
    • Replies: @Alden
    You don't even know what a GS 16 is do you? It's a pay scale.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Timely indeed! Maybe GR wants to show support for The Unz Review.

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/16-mind-blowing-facts-about-who-really-killed-jfk/5581346

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  • @Sparkon
    When the facts aren't in your favor, fall back on philosophy, or book-counting again.

    Better to read 100 books and be exposed to 100 conspiracy theories than read just one book and believe whatever that looney left writer says.
     
    False dichotomy.

    Anyone who believes JFK wanted to retreat from Vietnam has read too many Kennedy conspiracy books.
     
    You've already demonstrated that either you are woefully misinformed, or you are willfully spreading false information about JFK's publicized plan to get out of Vietnam by the end of 1965, as revealed by JFK's Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara in his 1995 memoir In Retrospect., but in your smugly ignorant view, Sec'y McNamara is a "looney (sic) left writer"

    Its an interesting thrilling genre, no different from Patterson, Koontz or Clancy.
     
    Speak for yourself.

    Maybe your viewpoint explains why you can't separate fact from fiction.

    Yes indeed, I’m part if the conspiracy. I’m a GS 16 assigned to spend my career lurking on the Internet debunking JFK conspiracy theories.

    Read More
    • Replies: @bluedog
    Hmm wondered why you were so brainwashed now I know you have been thru the government mill the GS16...
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @bluedog
    Lol my father always told me "never argue with a fool for he will wear you down and beat you for he has more experience'. lot of truth in that I'M BEAT...

    Speaking of credulous fools who believe anything they read.

    I’m skeptical of all the JFK books.

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  • @Alden
    Better to read 100 books and be exposed to 100 conspiracy theories than read just one book and believe whatever that looney left writer says.

    One thing about reading 100 books. Many of the books corroborate what other books claim. But many of the books write about alleged facts and theories that totally disprove other books.

    The craziest book was about 950 pages. The author claimed that the assassins had some kind of surgeon in the entourage that went to Dallas. On the plane going back, the surgeon opened up the coffin and cut some holes in the wounds to fool the autopsy Drs. Yeah right!

    Someone opens up the coffin in full view of around 20 people and starts cutting up the deceased President. Then the autopsy Drs don't notice that these new wounds didn't bleed because after death corpses don't bleed.

    The next craziest is that Mrs. Kennedy's second husband did it.

    Its an interesting thrilling genre, no different from Patterson, Koontz or Clancy.

    When the facts aren’t in your favor, fall back on philosophy, or book-counting again.

    Better to read 100 books and be exposed to 100 conspiracy theories than read just one book and believe whatever that looney left writer says.

    False dichotomy.

    Anyone who believes JFK wanted to retreat from Vietnam has read too many Kennedy conspiracy books.

    You’ve already demonstrated that either you are woefully misinformed, or you are willfully spreading false information about JFK’s publicized plan to get out of Vietnam by the end of 1965, as revealed by JFK’s Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara in his 1995 memoir In Retrospect., but in your smugly ignorant view, Sec’y McNamara is a “looney (sic) left writer”

    Its an interesting thrilling genre, no different from Patterson, Koontz or Clancy.

    Speak for yourself.

    Maybe your viewpoint explains why you can’t separate fact from fiction.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Alden
    Yes indeed, I'm part if the conspiracy. I'm a GS 16 assigned to spend my career lurking on the Internet debunking JFK conspiracy theories.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Sean

    Richard Henry Popkin (/ˈpɑːpkɪn/; December 27, 1923 – April 14, 2005) was an academic philosopher who specialized in the history of enlightenment philosophy and early modern anti-dogmatism. His 1960 work The History of Scepticism from Erasmus to Descartes [1] introduced one previously unrecognized influence on Western thought in the seventeenth century, the Pyrrhonian Scepticism of Sextus Empiricus. Popkin also was an internationally acclaimed scholar on Jewish and Christian millenarianism and messianism. [...] Beyond his philosophical works, he is noted for writing The Second Oswald (1966), questioning the Warren Report lone gunman explanation of the John F. Kennedy assassination. Popkin's theory was that a look-alike of Lee Harvey Oswald was the actual assassin of Kennedy.
     
    The Warren report or the conspiracy theory, which is the religion, eh?

    I presume you are referring to the magic bullet theory that the bullet that killed JFK some how just rolled off the gurney that his body was on undamaged of course,I think I will go where the facts lead me until the facts are proven wrong, and so far they haven’t and no I haven’t read 5 thousand books but have read enough of them..

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  • @Sean
    The load whatever it was was excessive at the range to the point that the father and son who saw him at the range were struck by the huge muzzle flash, Whatever it was for the assassination, the bullet was gaining muzzle velocity only in a relatively short carbine barrel. All other things being equal, a carbine would have more blast I was merely noting that Aiden's point about the firing having come from around where Oswald coing by considerable blast at that location ties in with Oswald having used the same cartridges for the assassination that he was seen practicing with.

    That of course with the assumption that it was the real Oswald which I very much doubt and if there was such an extreme muzzle blast which would indicate hand loads then it would have been seen by someone on the street,yet none were seen and none came forth saying they had sold Oswald any reloading material or wait lol perhaps the Russians or the Cubans or the Chinese or Mexico gave it to him.Fails to make any sense at all and yes I have read about his incident at the firing range didn’t make sense then and makes no sense now…

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sean
    If Kennedy had been shot with a M1 carbine, one would not have expected his brain to be literally blown out and a large part of his cranium to go flying, which it did. So while it was not a big game rifle with expanding or tumbling bullets (witness the straight through wound to his neck) he was shot with something high velocity but stable,and a rifle found at the scene fits that bill.

    The real Oswald was a trained infantryman and while the assassination was more difficult that most people allow (there were leafy trees in the way) the real Oswald had the skill to kill Kennedy.

    The real Oswald fled the scene, and then went to the movies, Hardly the behavior of an innocent man.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @bluedog
    Which Oswald are you referring to the one who made an ass out of himself to draw attention to the fact that he was there with a rifle, or the real Oswald who was elsewhere and how do you know that the cartridges were extra high powered,hell a 30-06 with a 150 grain load creates a hell of a muzzle blast and that's a damn small load as other high powered rifles do..

    Richard Henry Popkin (/ˈpɑːpkɪn/; December 27, 1923 – April 14, 2005) was an academic philosopher who specialized in the history of enlightenment philosophy and early modern anti-dogmatism. His 1960 work The History of Scepticism from Erasmus to Descartes [1] introduced one previously unrecognized influence on Western thought in the seventeenth century, the Pyrrhonian Scepticism of Sextus Empiricus. Popkin also was an internationally acclaimed scholar on Jewish and Christian millenarianism and messianism. [...] Beyond his philosophical works, he is noted for writing The Second Oswald (1966), questioning the Warren Report lone gunman explanation of the John F. Kennedy assassination. Popkin’s theory was that a look-alike of Lee Harvey Oswald was the actual assassin of Kennedy.

    The Warren report or the conspiracy theory, which is the religion, eh?

    Read More
    • Replies: @bluedog
    I presume you are referring to the magic bullet theory that the bullet that killed JFK some how just rolled off the gurney that his body was on undamaged of course,I think I will go where the facts lead me until the facts are proven wrong, and so far they haven't and no I haven't read 5 thousand books but have read enough of them..
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @bluedog
    Which Oswald are you referring to the one who made an ass out of himself to draw attention to the fact that he was there with a rifle, or the real Oswald who was elsewhere and how do you know that the cartridges were extra high powered,hell a 30-06 with a 150 grain load creates a hell of a muzzle blast and that's a damn small load as other high powered rifles do..

    The load whatever it was was excessive at the range to the point that the father and son who saw him at the range were struck by the huge muzzle flash, Whatever it was for the assassination, the bullet was gaining muzzle velocity only in a relatively short carbine barrel. All other things being equal, a carbine would have more blast I was merely noting that Aiden’s point about the firing having come from around where Oswald coing by considerable blast at that location ties in with Oswald having used the same cartridges for the assassination that he was seen practicing with.

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    • Replies: @bluedog
    That of course with the assumption that it was the real Oswald which I very much doubt and if there was such an extreme muzzle blast which would indicate hand loads then it would have been seen by someone on the street,yet none were seen and none came forth saying they had sold Oswald any reloading material or wait lol perhaps the Russians or the Cubans or the Chinese or Mexico gave it to him.Fails to make any sense at all and yes I have read about his incident at the firing range didn't make sense then and makes no sense now...
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  • @Sparkon
    The question is not so much how many books on JFK you've read, as it is whether or not you've read the right ones, and reached the correct conclusion:

    Exit Strategy: In 1963, JFK ordered a complete withdrawal from Vietnam

    Article author James K. Galbraith quotes, former Army intelligence officer John Newman author of JFK and Vietnam:

    (1) On October 2, 1963, Kennedy received the report of a mission to Saigon by McNamara and Maxwell Taylor, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS). The main recommendations, which appear in Section I(B) of the McNamara-Taylor report, were that a phased withdrawal be completed by the end of 1965 and that the “Defense Department should announce in the very near future presently prepared plans to withdraw 1,000 out of 17,000 U.S. military personnel stationed in Vietnam by the end of 1963.” At Kennedy’s instruction, Press Secretary Pierre Salinger made a public announcement that evening of McNamara’s recommended timetable for withdrawal.
     

    But from October 11 onward the CIA’s reporting changed drastically. Official optimism was replaced by a searching and comparatively realistic pessimism. Newman believes this pessimism, which involved rewriting assessments as far back as the previous July, was a response to NSAM 263. It represented an effort by the CIA to undermine the ostensible rationale of withdrawal with success, and therefore to obstruct implementation of the plan for withdrawal. Kennedy, needless to say, did not share his full reasoning with the CIA.
     


    Before a large audience at the LBJ Library on May 1, 1995, McNamara restated his account of this meeting and stressed its importance. He confirmed that President Kennedy’s action had three elements: (1) complete withdrawal “by December 31, 1965,” (2) the first 1,000 out by the end of 1963, and (3) a public announcement, to set these decisions “in concrete,
     
    I'd suggest there is pretty good evidence that JFK had made the decision to withdraw, and was about to begin its discreet implementation when he was killed.

    Better to read 100 books and be exposed to 100 conspiracy theories than read just one book and believe whatever that looney left writer says.

    One thing about reading 100 books. Many of the books corroborate what other books claim. But many of the books write about alleged facts and theories that totally disprove other books.

    The craziest book was about 950 pages. The author claimed that the assassins had some kind of surgeon in the entourage that went to Dallas. On the plane going back, the surgeon opened up the coffin and cut some holes in the wounds to fool the autopsy Drs. Yeah right!

    Someone opens up the coffin in full view of around 20 people and starts cutting up the deceased President. Then the autopsy Drs don’t notice that these new wounds didn’t bleed because after death corpses don’t bleed.

    The next craziest is that Mrs. Kennedy’s second husband did it.

    Its an interesting thrilling genre, no different from Patterson, Koontz or Clancy.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sparkon
    When the facts aren't in your favor, fall back on philosophy, or book-counting again.

    Better to read 100 books and be exposed to 100 conspiracy theories than read just one book and believe whatever that looney left writer says.
     
    False dichotomy.

    Anyone who believes JFK wanted to retreat from Vietnam has read too many Kennedy conspiracy books.
     
    You've already demonstrated that either you are woefully misinformed, or you are willfully spreading false information about JFK's publicized plan to get out of Vietnam by the end of 1965, as revealed by JFK's Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara in his 1995 memoir In Retrospect., but in your smugly ignorant view, Sec'y McNamara is a "looney (sic) left writer"

    Its an interesting thrilling genre, no different from Patterson, Koontz or Clancy.
     
    Speak for yourself.

    Maybe your viewpoint explains why you can't separate fact from fiction.

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  • Professor Scott, it appears to me that the “Russian hack” story, begun in June of 2016, was a false flag, not to sink Trump’s presidency because most everyone at the time thought he’d lose, but to give President Hillary Clinton a casus belli against Russia.

    When the DNC first announced it thought it had been hacked it refused allowing the FBI to run the investigation and instead gave it to the private “cybersecurity” company CrowdStrike which has links going to far-right Ukrainian and far-right anti-Soviet think tanks.

    What is the one thing that Trump won’t give the Deep State that Clinton was falling all over herself to give them? A war with Russia. How far up Clinton and the Deep State would ratchet it up is open to imagination.

    I suspect that the ongoing Trump-Putin scandal is actually the Deep State negotiating with Trump for that war. Or negotiating for Pence to give them that war.

    People with a voice need to consider this.

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  • @Sean
    He was seen at a range using the rifle with extra high powered cartridges that created a great deal of muzzle blast.

    Which Oswald are you referring to the one who made an ass out of himself to draw attention to the fact that he was there with a rifle, or the real Oswald who was elsewhere and how do you know that the cartridges were extra high powered,hell a 30-06 with a 150 grain load creates a hell of a muzzle blast and that’s a damn small load as other high powered rifles do..

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sean
    The load whatever it was was excessive at the range to the point that the father and son who saw him at the range were struck by the huge muzzle flash, Whatever it was for the assassination, the bullet was gaining muzzle velocity only in a relatively short carbine barrel. All other things being equal, a carbine would have more blast I was merely noting that Aiden's point about the firing having come from around where Oswald coing by considerable blast at that location ties in with Oswald having used the same cartridges for the assassination that he was seen practicing with.
    , @Sean

    Richard Henry Popkin (/ˈpɑːpkɪn/; December 27, 1923 – April 14, 2005) was an academic philosopher who specialized in the history of enlightenment philosophy and early modern anti-dogmatism. His 1960 work The History of Scepticism from Erasmus to Descartes [1] introduced one previously unrecognized influence on Western thought in the seventeenth century, the Pyrrhonian Scepticism of Sextus Empiricus. Popkin also was an internationally acclaimed scholar on Jewish and Christian millenarianism and messianism. [...] Beyond his philosophical works, he is noted for writing The Second Oswald (1966), questioning the Warren Report lone gunman explanation of the John F. Kennedy assassination. Popkin's theory was that a look-alike of Lee Harvey Oswald was the actual assassin of Kennedy.
     
    The Warren report or the conspiracy theory, which is the religion, eh?
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  • @Sean

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/new-book-reveals-how-much-fbi-cia-knew-about-oswald-before-kennedy-assassination/
    Much of the evidence Shenon includes in his book shows the amount of information about Oswald's time in Mexico that either never reached the Warren Commission investigators or was directly contradicted in reports by the CIA. One example is a June 1964 memo to the commission's lead investigator from J. Edgar Hoover, the FBI director at the time of Kennedy's assassination, in which Hoover wrote about a report from "our people in Mexico" that " [Oswald] stormed into the embassy, demanded the visa, and when it was refused to him, headed out saying, 'I'm going to kill Kennedy for this.'" (it was unclear to Hoover whether the embassy in question was the Cuban or Soviet embassy in Mexico City). The investigators told Shenon they were certain they had never seen the memo, which disappeared before it reached them and only turned up in the classified archives of the CIA years later. [...] "There is some evidence to suggest [Oswald] had a brief relationship with a young Mexican woman ho worked at the Cuban embassy in Mexico City," Shenon said on "Face the Nation." "The Warren Commission actually wanted to interview that woman but Chief Justice Warren made the decision she would not be interviewed because he said 'she was a communist and we don't interview communists.'"

    A section of Scott's memoirs - which included details about the extent of the CIA's monitoring of Oswald in Mexico - was only declassified in the 1990s. The agency photographed Oswald outside of the Cuban and Soviet embassies in Mexico City, and recorded his phone calls while he was in Mexico, evidence that never reached the commission. Scott's memoirs also reveal that he thought there might have been a foreign conspiracy to kill Kennedy involving Oswald as a Communist agent, which contradicted what he told the Warren Commission.
     

    See, they minimized the commie connection. So framing commie countries was not the objective.

    At first blush Oswald was surely rather young to be selected for a long term sleeper operation , being barely 17 when he enlisted in the Marines , and still only 19 years old in 1959 when he arrived in the USSR; a few months before in April 1959, Castro had visited the U.S. where the CIA could have done just about anything they wanted to him.

    Of course there were files on him and of course the CIA and FBI knew all about him. That is the point. He wasn't an agent of anyone--he was a independent minded loose cannon, and that is why he embarrassed and wrong-footed every intelligence agency he came into contact with, including the KGB and the Cubans. Casto agreed to be questioned for the Warren Commission, no doubt he was truthful in denying Oswald was an agent of Cuba, but Oswald saved Cuba nonetheless.

    The nukes were gone and Cuba was helpless. Kennedy was going to use US military forces on Cuba next, but Oswald put a stop to all that. Just shows what one determined Marine and his rifle can accomplish.

    Keep trying son your only digging your hole deeper with your deceit,two who worked for the C.I.A. a husband and wife team worked in the payroll department in Japan stated that yes Oswald’s name was on the payroll of the C.I.A.,in Mexico the camera’s show a man claiming to be Oswald speaking in broken Russian height 6″1” age about 35 athletic build receding hairline bald on top,Oswald spoke fluent Russian 5’10” age 24 light brown wavy hair 165lb.now are we talking about the same Oswald or not,this was on Sept.27 and 28th and lol you must be in some self induced dreamland in your thinking JFK was going to use military force on Cuba, when he had had quite extensive communication thru back door channels with Castro..

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  • @Sean
    It's certain that JFK had made the decision to withdraw from Vietnam , after he won the war against the Vietnamese communists.The thing was the US could not beat the Vietnamese communist, because they were politically strong despite their military weakness, and democratic election would have resulted in a VC victory, something the US had to learn from experience. The Vietnamese were like Oswald, small men who were easy to underestimate.

    Striking the incorrect amendment you tried to sneak in:

    It’s certain that JFK had made the decision to withdraw from Vietnam , after he won the war against the Vietnamese communists.

    Kennedy was getting the U.S. out of Vietnam by the end of 1965. Period. Full Stop.

    President Kennedy’s action had three elements:
    (1) complete withdrawal “by December 31, 1965,”
    (2) the first 1,000 out by the end of 1963, and
    (3) a public announcement, to set these decisions “in concrete

    There was nothing in there–zip, zero, nada, zilch–about winning any war against the Vietnamese communists. Either your reading skills are very poor, or you choose to ignore what doesn’t agree with your cherished notions, or you are up to something else…

    He was seen at a range using the rifle with extra high powered cartridges that created a great deal of muzzle blast.

    FBI head J. Edgar Hoover knew that somebody was impersonating Oswald already by June 3, 1960, when he wrote this memo:

    Since there is a possibility that an imposter is using Oswald’s birth certificate, any current information the Department of State may have concerning the subject will be appreciated.

    While Russian-speaking Oswald was still back in the USSR, his doppleganger was arrested in New Orleans:

    On March 31, 1961, a memo was sent from the passport office to John White, an official at the consular section of the State Department, reiterating the concern about two Oswalds originally expressed by Hoover nine months earlier.

    In the fall of 1961, while Harvey Oswald was still in Russia, Police Officer Charles Noto arrested LEE Oswald and Celso Hernandez on Breakwater Road on the Lakefront in New Orleans.

    In April, 1962, while Harvey Oswald was still in Russia, LEE Oswald visited the Texas Employment Commission in Ft. Worth and filled out form E-40a, Aptitude Profile Test (APT) B-1002 and the Occupational Aptitude Pattern test (WC XIX, p 491).

    There is no doubt that Hoover knew about a LEE Harvey Oswald in the United States while Lee HARVEY Oswald was in the Soviet Union.

    The American who was photographed at the Cuban and Soviet embassies in Mexico City in Sept., 1963 looks nothing like the Lee Harvey Oswald who was arrested in Dallas on Nov. 22, 1963.

    http://harveyandlee.net/index.html

    There is also evidence that other impersonators were using the name Lee Harvey Oswald, and/or had his identification.

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  • The Internal Compliance Unit of The Department of Justice.

    “The Unit’s working are obscure even within the DOJ and its operational purview is, as certain senators have occasionally charged, ‘dangerously undefined’.

    The ICU is located on the tenth floor of this modern office complex in Washington, isolated from a bureaucracy it is obliged to scrutinize. Behind its bland title there’s an extremely secretive, powerful and far-reaching investigative agency charged with highly classified audits and examinations of other U.S. government agencies that cannot be done in-house and which involves highly sensitive matters.

    It is said that ICU officials were deeply involved in scrutinizing the CIA’s Aldrich Ames fiasco; in investigating the Reagan White House’s Iran-Contra affair; in examining numerous Defense Department acquisitions scandals. It was the ICU, people whisper, that first uncovered the suspicious activities of the FBI’s counterintelligence agent Robert Philip Hanssen. There are even rumors that the ICU was behind the “deep throat” leaks that led to Richard Nixon’s downfall.” ~ Robert Ludlum, author of The Sigma Protocol.

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  • @Alden
    Raiken took them to the NYC welfare dept. Travelers Aid helped thousands of people that year. Oswald was supposed to
    pay the state department back for the cost of transportation. That's standard procedure for stranded Americans whose fare home is paid by the state department

    It was not special treatment.

    I suppose in your world defections of marines, with a background working in intelligence and having received special training in the Russian language, to the USSR were everyday occurrences and could be said to be true of thousands of marines. That must be how you are able to make such statements.

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  • @Alden
    There is a picture in many of the books of 3 of Oswald's fellow employees in the windows on the fifth floor of the building. 2 looked out of one window, the window directly underneath the window the shots came from and where the shooters stand and rifle was found. The other man was in the next fifth floor window.

    They all testified that they heard the shots, felt the vibration and that dust fell from the ceiling pipes and shelves due to the vibration of the shots.

    I look at the Who Shot Kennedy genre as pure entertainment, like early John Le Carre and John Grisham, Len Deighton etc. The event generates vast amounts of books and discussion, sort of like the Bible.

    Who knows?

    He was seen at a range using the rifle with extra high powered cartridges that created a great deal of muzzle blast.

    Read More
    • Replies: @bluedog
    Which Oswald are you referring to the one who made an ass out of himself to draw attention to the fact that he was there with a rifle, or the real Oswald who was elsewhere and how do you know that the cartridges were extra high powered,hell a 30-06 with a 150 grain load creates a hell of a muzzle blast and that's a damn small load as other high powered rifles do..
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  • @Sparkon
    The question is not so much how many books on JFK you've read, as it is whether or not you've read the right ones, and reached the correct conclusion:

    Exit Strategy: In 1963, JFK ordered a complete withdrawal from Vietnam

    Article author James K. Galbraith quotes, former Army intelligence officer John Newman author of JFK and Vietnam:

    (1) On October 2, 1963, Kennedy received the report of a mission to Saigon by McNamara and Maxwell Taylor, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS). The main recommendations, which appear in Section I(B) of the McNamara-Taylor report, were that a phased withdrawal be completed by the end of 1965 and that the “Defense Department should announce in the very near future presently prepared plans to withdraw 1,000 out of 17,000 U.S. military personnel stationed in Vietnam by the end of 1963.” At Kennedy’s instruction, Press Secretary Pierre Salinger made a public announcement that evening of McNamara’s recommended timetable for withdrawal.
     

    But from October 11 onward the CIA’s reporting changed drastically. Official optimism was replaced by a searching and comparatively realistic pessimism. Newman believes this pessimism, which involved rewriting assessments as far back as the previous July, was a response to NSAM 263. It represented an effort by the CIA to undermine the ostensible rationale of withdrawal with success, and therefore to obstruct implementation of the plan for withdrawal. Kennedy, needless to say, did not share his full reasoning with the CIA.
     


    Before a large audience at the LBJ Library on May 1, 1995, McNamara restated his account of this meeting and stressed its importance. He confirmed that President Kennedy’s action had three elements: (1) complete withdrawal “by December 31, 1965,” (2) the first 1,000 out by the end of 1963, and (3) a public announcement, to set these decisions “in concrete,
     
    I'd suggest there is pretty good evidence that JFK had made the decision to withdraw, and was about to begin its discreet implementation when he was killed.

    It’s certain that JFK had made the decision to withdraw from Vietnam , after he won the war against the Vietnamese communists.The thing was the US could not beat the Vietnamese communist, because they were politically strong despite their military weakness, and democratic election would have resulted in a VC victory, something the US had to learn from experience. The Vietnamese were like Oswald, small men who were easy to underestimate.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sparkon
    Striking the incorrect amendment you tried to sneak in:

    It’s certain that JFK had made the decision to withdraw from Vietnam , after he won the war against the Vietnamese communists.
     
    Kennedy was getting the U.S. out of Vietnam by the end of 1965. Period. Full Stop.

    President Kennedy’s action had three elements:
    (1) complete withdrawal “by December 31, 1965,”
    (2) the first 1,000 out by the end of 1963, and
    (3) a public announcement, to set these decisions “in concrete
     
    There was nothing in there--zip, zero, nada, zilch--about winning any war against the Vietnamese communists. Either your reading skills are very poor, or you choose to ignore what doesn't agree with your cherished notions, or you are up to something else...

    He was seen at a range using the rifle with extra high powered cartridges that created a great deal of muzzle blast.
     
    FBI head J. Edgar Hoover knew that somebody was impersonating Oswald already by June 3, 1960, when he wrote this memo:

    Since there is a possibility that an imposter is using Oswald's birth certificate, any current information the Department of State may have concerning the subject will be appreciated.
     
    While Russian-speaking Oswald was still back in the USSR, his doppleganger was arrested in New Orleans:

    On March 31, 1961, a memo was sent from the passport office to John White, an official at the consular section of the State Department, reiterating the concern about two Oswalds originally expressed by Hoover nine months earlier.

    In the fall of 1961, while Harvey Oswald was still in Russia, Police Officer Charles Noto arrested LEE Oswald and Celso Hernandez on Breakwater Road on the Lakefront in New Orleans.

    In April, 1962, while Harvey Oswald was still in Russia, LEE Oswald visited the Texas Employment Commission in Ft. Worth and filled out form E-40a, Aptitude Profile Test (APT) B-1002 and the Occupational Aptitude Pattern test (WC XIX, p 491).

    There is no doubt that Hoover knew about a LEE Harvey Oswald in the United States while Lee HARVEY Oswald was in the Soviet Union.
     
    The American who was photographed at the Cuban and Soviet embassies in Mexico City in Sept., 1963 looks nothing like the Lee Harvey Oswald who was arrested in Dallas on Nov. 22, 1963.

    http://harveyandlee.net/index.html

    There is also evidence that other impersonators were using the name Lee Harvey Oswald, and/or had his identification.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @bluedog
    Hmm are you one of those who think all the Russians are stupid of course they knew Oswald was C.I.A. and had been ever since he was stationed in Japan, where he was privileged into listening to the U-2 flights, and of course Oswald was not in on the killing of JFK, why he was sent to Russia perhaps for the pro-Castro group to set up his cover on his return seeing he was involved in running guns to the anti=Castro group, but one thing we do know from the sworn testimony of a woman who worked in the records department of the CIA was that his file had been tagged which ment that the CIA didn't trust him thus the perfect patsy,,,

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/new-book-reveals-how-much-fbi-cia-knew-about-oswald-before-kennedy-assassination/
    Much of the evidence Shenon includes in his book shows the amount of information about Oswald’s time in Mexico that either never reached the Warren Commission investigators or was directly contradicted in reports by the CIA. One example is a June 1964 memo to the commission’s lead investigator from J. Edgar Hoover, the FBI director at the time of Kennedy’s assassination, in which Hoover wrote about a report from “our people in Mexico” that ” [Oswald] stormed into the embassy, demanded the visa, and when it was refused to him, headed out saying, ‘I’m going to kill Kennedy for this.’” (it was unclear to Hoover whether the embassy in question was the Cuban or Soviet embassy in Mexico City). The investigators told Shenon they were certain they had never seen the memo, which disappeared before it reached them and only turned up in the classified archives of the CIA years later. [...] “There is some evidence to suggest [Oswald] had a brief relationship with a young Mexican woman ho worked at the Cuban embassy in Mexico City,” Shenon said on “Face the Nation.” “The Warren Commission actually wanted to interview that woman but Chief Justice Warren made the decision she would not be interviewed because he said ‘she was a communist and we don’t interview communists.’”

    A section of Scott’s memoirs – which included details about the extent of the CIA’s monitoring of Oswald in Mexico – was only declassified in the 1990s. The agency photographed Oswald outside of the Cuban and Soviet embassies in Mexico City, and recorded his phone calls while he was in Mexico, evidence that never reached the commission. Scott’s memoirs also reveal that he thought there might have been a foreign conspiracy to kill Kennedy involving Oswald as a Communist agent, which contradicted what he told the Warren Commission.

    See, they minimized the commie connection. So framing commie countries was not the objective.

    At first blush Oswald was surely rather young to be selected for a long term sleeper operation , being barely 17 when he enlisted in the Marines , and still only 19 years old in 1959 when he arrived in the USSR; a few months before in April 1959, Castro had visited the U.S. where the CIA could have done just about anything they wanted to him.

    Of course there were files on him and of course the CIA and FBI knew all about him. That is the point. He wasn’t an agent of anyone–he was a independent minded loose cannon, and that is why he embarrassed and wrong-footed every intelligence agency he came into contact with, including the KGB and the Cubans. Casto agreed to be questioned for the Warren Commission, no doubt he was truthful in denying Oswald was an agent of Cuba, but Oswald saved Cuba nonetheless.

    The nukes were gone and Cuba was helpless. Kennedy was going to use US military forces on Cuba next, but Oswald put a stop to all that. Just shows what one determined Marine and his rifle can accomplish.

    Read More
    • Replies: @bluedog
    Keep trying son your only digging your hole deeper with your deceit,two who worked for the C.I.A. a husband and wife team worked in the payroll department in Japan stated that yes Oswald's name was on the payroll of the C.I.A.,in Mexico the camera's show a man claiming to be Oswald speaking in broken Russian height 6"1'' age about 35 athletic build receding hairline bald on top,Oswald spoke fluent Russian 5'10'' age 24 light brown wavy hair 165lb.now are we talking about the same Oswald or not,this was on Sept.27 and 28th and lol you must be in some self induced dreamland in your thinking JFK was going to use military force on Cuba, when he had had quite extensive communication thru back door channels with Castro..
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  • @Alden
    On the day JFK was elected there were about 750 American troops in Vietnam. They trained the Vietnamese army to use the weapons we sold to them.
    On the day he died there were 45,000 combat troop as well as the air force and navy in Vietnam. JFK sent then to Vietnam.

    Anyone who believes JFK wanted to retreat from Vietnam has read too many
    Kennedy conspiracy books.

    "Don't listen to what he says, watch what he does" is an old French saying. I've read maybe 100 Kennedy conspiracy books. The authors just write a thousand pages to prove one theory or another. They should all use the scientific method. First assemble the facts. Then use the facts to deduct a theory. The Kennedy conspiracy writers begin with a theory and twist the facts to fit the theory

    The question is not so much how many books on JFK you’ve read, as it is whether or not you’ve read the right ones, and reached the correct conclusion:

    Exit Strategy: In 1963, JFK ordered a complete withdrawal from Vietnam

    Article author James K. Galbraith quotes, former Army intelligence officer John Newman author of JFK and Vietnam:

    (1) On October 2, 1963, Kennedy received the report of a mission to Saigon by McNamara and Maxwell Taylor, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS). The main recommendations, which appear in Section I(B) of the McNamara-Taylor report, were that a phased withdrawal be completed by the end of 1965 and that the “Defense Department should announce in the very near future presently prepared plans to withdraw 1,000 out of 17,000 U.S. military personnel stationed in Vietnam by the end of 1963.” At Kennedy’s instruction, Press Secretary Pierre Salinger made a public announcement that evening of McNamara’s recommended timetable for withdrawal.

    But from October 11 onward the CIA’s reporting changed drastically. Official optimism was replaced by a searching and comparatively realistic pessimism. Newman believes this pessimism, which involved rewriting assessments as far back as the previous July, was a response to NSAM 263. It represented an effort by the CIA to undermine the ostensible rationale of withdrawal with success, and therefore to obstruct implementation of the plan for withdrawal. Kennedy, needless to say, did not share his full reasoning with the CIA.

    Before a large audience at the LBJ Library on May 1, 1995, McNamara restated his account of this meeting and stressed its importance. He confirmed that President Kennedy’s action had three elements: (1) complete withdrawal “by December 31, 1965,” (2) the first 1,000 out by the end of 1963, and (3) a public announcement, to set these decisions “in concrete,

    I’d suggest there is pretty good evidence that JFK had made the decision to withdraw, and was about to begin its discreet implementation when he was killed.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sean
    It's certain that JFK had made the decision to withdraw from Vietnam , after he won the war against the Vietnamese communists.The thing was the US could not beat the Vietnamese communist, because they were politically strong despite their military weakness, and democratic election would have resulted in a VC victory, something the US had to learn from experience. The Vietnamese were like Oswald, small men who were easy to underestimate.
    , @Alden
    Better to read 100 books and be exposed to 100 conspiracy theories than read just one book and believe whatever that looney left writer says.

    One thing about reading 100 books. Many of the books corroborate what other books claim. But many of the books write about alleged facts and theories that totally disprove other books.

    The craziest book was about 950 pages. The author claimed that the assassins had some kind of surgeon in the entourage that went to Dallas. On the plane going back, the surgeon opened up the coffin and cut some holes in the wounds to fool the autopsy Drs. Yeah right!

    Someone opens up the coffin in full view of around 20 people and starts cutting up the deceased President. Then the autopsy Drs don't notice that these new wounds didn't bleed because after death corpses don't bleed.

    The next craziest is that Mrs. Kennedy's second husband did it.

    Its an interesting thrilling genre, no different from Patterson, Koontz or Clancy.
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  • @Alden
    Um, there is no law or precedent to prevent a defector or any kind of ex pat from returning to the USA.

    The real mystery is why the soviets allowed the wife and baby to leave. As far as I know, she was one of only two Russian wives of foreigners allowed to leave between 1930 and 1980. The other one was married to an Anerucan diplomat in the 1950s

    There were several hundred Russian wives married to foreigners who were not allowed to leave Russia at the time. They and the children stayed in Russia.

    Um, there is no law or precedent to prevent a defector or any kind of ex pat from returning to the USA.

    While this may be the case for hippie backpackers in Cambodia- I would think that the return of a Soviet defector would be national news blared by the vaunted citadels of freedom like the Washington Post… In addition to drawing the collective stink-eye of myriad surveillance agencies…Like you stated, how the hell were the wife and child allowed to leave?

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    • Replies: @Alden
    I was 21 when Kennedy was killed. Oswalds return to the US was all over the national newspapers for a couple weeks.

    His arrest a year or so later in New Orleans for disturbing the peace in a squabble between pro and anti Castro activists was also in the news.

    In those days conservatives were anti communists, not fuddy duddies as they are today. When the news broke out of their arrival in NYC conservatives logically assumed that the Russian wife was a sleeper agent and Oswald was too.
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  • @Alden
    Oswalds rifle was found on the 6th floor. The 3 workers who heard the shot, felt the vibration and saw the dust falling from the ceiling pipes were looking out the 5th floor Windows

    There are numerous copies of that picture in many of the thousands of books.

    Lol my father always told me “never argue with a fool for he will wear you down and beat you for he has more experience’. lot of truth in that I’M BEAT…

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    • Replies: @Alden
    Speaking of credulous fools who believe anything they read.

    I'm skeptical of all the JFK books.
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  • @bluedog
    Son there's an old saying if you can't run with the big dogs stay on the porch,now first the poster said 3 WORKERS ABOVE HIM on the next floor or two not under him, but your trying to make it sound better bait and switch I THINK IS THE TERM, but they of course never saw him against 1 WORKER who did see him my money is on the ONE WHO DID SEE HIM...

    Oswalds rifle was found on the 6th floor. The 3 workers who heard the shot, felt the vibration and saw the dust falling from the ceiling pipes were looking out the 5th floor Windows

    There are numerous copies of that picture in many of the thousands of books.

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    • Replies: @bluedog
    Lol my father always told me "never argue with a fool for he will wear you down and beat you for he has more experience'. lot of truth in that I'M BEAT...
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  • @Stonehands
    Sean, another glaring mystery:

    How was Oswald allowed to re-enter the US after defecting to the USSR _during the height of the cold war?

    Um, there is no law or precedent to prevent a defector or any kind of ex pat from returning to the USA.

    The real mystery is why the soviets allowed the wife and baby to leave. As far as I know, she was one of only two Russian wives of foreigners allowed to leave between 1930 and 1980. The other one was married to an Anerucan diplomat in the 1950s

    There were several hundred Russian wives married to foreigners who were not allowed to leave Russia at the time. They and the children stayed in Russia.

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    • Replies: @Stonehands

    Um, there is no law or precedent to prevent a defector or any kind of ex pat from returning to the USA.
     
    While this may be the case for hippie backpackers in Cambodia- I would think that the return of a Soviet defector would be national news blared by the vaunted citadels of freedom like the Washington Post... In addition to drawing the collective stink-eye of myriad surveillance agencies...Like you stated, how the hell were the wife and child allowed to leave?
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  • @bluedog
    Simple really for Oswald was working for the C.I.A. and upon his re-entry into the U.S. was met and welcomed by order of U.S. government he had betrayed.The Warren Report tells us that on the recommendation of the State Department, the Oswald's were greeted at the dock by Spas T. Raikin, a representative of the Traveler's Aid Society, who had extensive intelligence connections where he was introduced to George de Mohrenschildt who stated that late in 1961 he had met with the C.I.A'a J. Walton Moore who passed Oswald off on to him and the rest is history as they say..

    Raiken took them to the NYC welfare dept. Travelers Aid helped thousands of people that year. Oswald was supposed to
    pay the state department back for the cost of transportation. That’s standard procedure for stranded Americans whose fare home is paid by the state department

    It was not special treatment.

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    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    I suppose in your world defections of marines, with a background working in intelligence and having received special training in the Russian language, to the USSR were everyday occurrences and could be said to be true of thousands of marines. That must be how you are able to make such statements.
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  • @bluedog
    Yes who knows but when congress re-visited the evidence some years later they had this to say yes there were more then one involved in the shooting of JFK and yes it was a conspiracy..

    Only the naive and credulous believe any conclusions made by congressional committees.
    Remember that the committee hearings that came to that conclusion held hearings after 15 years and at least a thousand books of the CIA FBI Mafia military oil industry etc etc etc all conspired to kill Kennedy

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  • @bluedog
    Where did you dream up that they lived in poverty for he was given a very very good job in a contract company doing work for the government,part of his job was doing overlay work on maps where the U2 flights were going over Cuba and where his previous training in Japan on U2 flights came into play, after all he held a crpyto clearance which is above top secret,a job arranged by the same one he was taken to after returning from Russia.
    As to why he went to Russia perhaps that can be explained by a man who was executive assistant to the Deputy Director of the CIA in 1959 the year Oswald defected at the time the U.S. was having a real problem in acquiring any information out of Russia, so the ONI hatched a program to send three dozen or so young men who were made to appear disenchanted poor and wanted to see what communism was all about,some only lasted a few weeks.They sent them into the Soviet Union,or into eastern Europe with the thought that they would be picked up recruited as KGB agents or double agents,the operation was run out of Nag's Head,North Carolina.

    I’ve read those books too. The Russians didn’t even trust their faithful servants Maclean, Burgess and Philby after they defected to Russia. Why would they trust Americans who unlike Maclean, Burgess and Philby who worked for the Russians 20 years or more and gave the Russians vast amounts of useful information.

    If the CIA/FBI etc wanted to plant an agent in Russia it would work this way.

    1 Recruit someone already in the military
    2 Give him a top secret job
    3 Tell him to approach the soviet state while in the military
    4 Arrange for him to give lots of top secret information to the sockets
    5 Arrange for him to be investigated and the soviets made aware of the investigation
    6 Then have him run to the soviets to avoid arrest and a treason trial.

    I’ve read all about the idea that the CIA send defectors to the Soviet Union Maybe it happened, maybe it didn’t

    But I don’t believe any of the conspiracy books. They are entertainment, that’s all.

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  • @bluedog
    Where did you dream up that they lived in poverty for he was given a very very good job in a contract company doing work for the government,part of his job was doing overlay work on maps where the U2 flights were going over Cuba and where his previous training in Japan on U2 flights came into play, after all he held a crpyto clearance which is above top secret,a job arranged by the same one he was taken to after returning from Russia.
    As to why he went to Russia perhaps that can be explained by a man who was executive assistant to the Deputy Director of the CIA in 1959 the year Oswald defected at the time the U.S. was having a real problem in acquiring any information out of Russia, so the ONI hatched a program to send three dozen or so young men who were made to appear disenchanted poor and wanted to see what communism was all about,some only lasted a few weeks.They sent them into the Soviet Union,or into eastern Europe with the thought that they would be picked up recruited as KGB agents or double agents,the operation was run out of Nag's Head,North Carolina.

    Oswald had that job for about 2 months and it paid minimum wage like every other job he ever had.

    Read some of the endless books about Oswald, his wife Marina, the Payne family that supported his wife and children and what the Russian community of Dallas told writers about the poverty in which the Oswalds lived.

    Most of his pay checks came to about $25 a week. Back then it was barely enough for one person but total poverty for a couple with a non working wife, a baby and a baby in the way.

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  • @dearieme
    "the CIA’s bungling Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba": come off it. It was JFK's invasion: he gave it the green light. The CIA were simply the mutton-heads who had planned and executed it.

    "Although Kennedy was elected in 1960 as a Cold Warrior, he moved away from a hardline stance almost immediately after being elected." I suspect you mean "although JFK told flagrant lies about the Soviet missile threat during his election campaign, he had no need to repeat those lies in office".

    "he was ... beginning to withdraw U.S. troops from Vietnam": he'd put them there in the first place. It was Kennedy's War, illuminated by his having the South Vietnamese Prime Minister assassinated.

    "Historians disagree about whether Kennedy was serious about peace with Cuba, as there were also plans for an all-out invasion of the island happening at the same time." Hm: "there were also plans" - there's a moral agent missing there. Plans don't just happen.

    "The book likened the Kennedy brothers to the Roman Grachii and their fight against corruption in the Roman Republic." Hats off for the guffaw. That's about as likely as a pressure group "Clintons Against Corruption".

    "But regarding Vietnam, more and more support for the notion that JFK would not have escalated the conflict": mere onjecture; utterly unknowable.

    I do get fed up with all the sentimental guff about JFK, who was just another unprincipled scoundrel occupying the White House for his own ends.

    On the day JFK was elected there were about 750 American troops in Vietnam. They trained the Vietnamese army to use the weapons we sold to them.
    On the day he died there were 45,000 combat troop as well as the air force and navy in Vietnam. JFK sent then to Vietnam.

    Anyone who believes JFK wanted to retreat from Vietnam has read too many
    Kennedy conspiracy books.

    “Don’t listen to what he says, watch what he does” is an old French saying. I’ve read maybe 100 Kennedy conspiracy books. The authors just write a thousand pages to prove one theory or another. They should all use the scientific method. First assemble the facts. Then use the facts to deduct a theory. The Kennedy conspiracy writers begin with a theory and twist the facts to fit the theory

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    • Replies: @Sparkon
    The question is not so much how many books on JFK you've read, as it is whether or not you've read the right ones, and reached the correct conclusion:

    Exit Strategy: In 1963, JFK ordered a complete withdrawal from Vietnam

    Article author James K. Galbraith quotes, former Army intelligence officer John Newman author of JFK and Vietnam:

    (1) On October 2, 1963, Kennedy received the report of a mission to Saigon by McNamara and Maxwell Taylor, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS). The main recommendations, which appear in Section I(B) of the McNamara-Taylor report, were that a phased withdrawal be completed by the end of 1965 and that the “Defense Department should announce in the very near future presently prepared plans to withdraw 1,000 out of 17,000 U.S. military personnel stationed in Vietnam by the end of 1963.” At Kennedy’s instruction, Press Secretary Pierre Salinger made a public announcement that evening of McNamara’s recommended timetable for withdrawal.
     

    But from October 11 onward the CIA’s reporting changed drastically. Official optimism was replaced by a searching and comparatively realistic pessimism. Newman believes this pessimism, which involved rewriting assessments as far back as the previous July, was a response to NSAM 263. It represented an effort by the CIA to undermine the ostensible rationale of withdrawal with success, and therefore to obstruct implementation of the plan for withdrawal. Kennedy, needless to say, did not share his full reasoning with the CIA.
     


    Before a large audience at the LBJ Library on May 1, 1995, McNamara restated his account of this meeting and stressed its importance. He confirmed that President Kennedy’s action had three elements: (1) complete withdrawal “by December 31, 1965,” (2) the first 1,000 out by the end of 1963, and (3) a public announcement, to set these decisions “in concrete,
     
    I'd suggest there is pretty good evidence that JFK had made the decision to withdraw, and was about to begin its discreet implementation when he was killed.
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  • @Alden
    One thing "Oswald worked for the CIA" theorists don't realize is that no government agency of any nation would allow an operative to live in the absolute poverty of the Oswald family. A single man could perhaps, perhaps have operated in and out of minimum wage jobs. But with a totally dependent wife, one baby and another on the way Oswald could barely pay rent.

    To go fetch his rifle he had to beg a ride from a co worker. The same co worker brought him back to work the day of the killing. His rifle was stashed, with no charge in a suburb with no public transportation.
    What kind of CIA, Israeli, KGB operative can't afford to keep his rifle in a public storage unit or can't afford some kind of shabby studio instead of a boarding house. What kind of operative can't afford a car or driving lessons, particulary in 1960's Dallas?

    Where did you dream up that they lived in poverty for he was given a very very good job in a contract company doing work for the government,part of his job was doing overlay work on maps where the U2 flights were going over Cuba and where his previous training in Japan on U2 flights came into play, after all he held a crpyto clearance which is above top secret,a job arranged by the same one he was taken to after returning from Russia.
    As to why he went to Russia perhaps that can be explained by a man who was executive assistant to the Deputy Director of the CIA in 1959 the year Oswald defected at the time the U.S. was having a real problem in acquiring any information out of Russia, so the ONI hatched a program to send three dozen or so young men who were made to appear disenchanted poor and wanted to see what communism was all about,some only lasted a few weeks.They sent them into the Soviet Union,or into eastern Europe with the thought that they would be picked up recruited as KGB agents or double agents,the operation was run out of Nag’s Head,North Carolina.

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    • Replies: @Alden
    Oswald had that job for about 2 months and it paid minimum wage like every other job he ever had.

    Read some of the endless books about Oswald, his wife Marina, the Payne family that supported his wife and children and what the Russian community of Dallas told writers about the poverty in which the Oswalds lived.

    Most of his pay checks came to about $25 a week. Back then it was barely enough for one person but total poverty for a couple with a non working wife, a baby and a baby in the way.
    , @Alden
    I've read those books too. The Russians didn't even trust their faithful servants Maclean, Burgess and Philby after they defected to Russia. Why would they trust Americans who unlike Maclean, Burgess and Philby who worked for the Russians 20 years or more and gave the Russians vast amounts of useful information.

    If the CIA/FBI etc wanted to plant an agent in Russia it would work this way.

    1 Recruit someone already in the military
    2 Give him a top secret job
    3 Tell him to approach the soviet state while in the military
    4 Arrange for him to give lots of top secret information to the sockets
    5 Arrange for him to be investigated and the soviets made aware of the investigation
    6 Then have him run to the soviets to avoid arrest and a treason trial.

    I've read all about the idea that the CIA send defectors to the Soviet Union Maybe it happened, maybe it didn't

    But I don't believe any of the conspiracy books. They are entertainment, that's all.
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  • @Alden
    3 people who were right under the window from which he fired from as opposed to 1 worker who observed him in a lunch room at some time before shots were fired.

    Son there’s an old saying if you can’t run with the big dogs stay on the porch,now first the poster said 3 WORKERS ABOVE HIM on the next floor or two not under him, but your trying to make it sound better bait and switch I THINK IS THE TERM, but they of course never saw him against 1 WORKER who did see him my money is on the ONE WHO DID SEE HIM…

    Read More
    • Replies: @Alden
    Oswalds rifle was found on the 6th floor. The 3 workers who heard the shot, felt the vibration and saw the dust falling from the ceiling pipes were looking out the 5th floor Windows

    There are numerous copies of that picture in many of the thousands of books.
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  • @Alden
    Guess you never heard of picking up the casings and dumping them in a convenient bus stop trash can?

    Idiot of course he did and left the rifle behind in plain site was it ever tested to see if it had been fired not that I know of, and then run home to get his 38 which somehow he just left behind as he left for work Nope friend that dog don’t hunt either..

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  • @bluedog
    Hmm strange for another worker testified that right after the shots she saw him sitting in the lunch room drinking a coke some 3 or floors below nor did he seem out of breath,and one thing I have never read nor seen is where are the empty shell cases, for he sure wouldn't have took them with him, the reason of course is because those shots never came from those windows to begin with and the reason they were never placed in evidence..

    Guess you never heard of picking up the casings and dumping them in a convenient bus stop trash can?

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    • Replies: @bluedog
    Idiot of course he did and left the rifle behind in plain site was it ever tested to see if it had been fired not that I know of, and then run home to get his 38 which somehow he just left behind as he left for work Nope friend that dog don't hunt either..
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  • @bluedog
    Hmm strange for another worker testified that right after the shots she saw him sitting in the lunch room drinking a coke some 3 or floors below nor did he seem out of breath,and one thing I have never read nor seen is where are the empty shell cases, for he sure wouldn't have took them with him, the reason of course is because those shots never came from those windows to begin with and the reason they were never placed in evidence..

    3 people who were right under the window from which he fired from as opposed to 1 worker who observed him in a lunch room at some time before shots were fired.

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    • Replies: @bluedog
    Son there's an old saying if you can't run with the big dogs stay on the porch,now first the poster said 3 WORKERS ABOVE HIM on the next floor or two not under him, but your trying to make it sound better bait and switch I THINK IS THE TERM, but they of course never saw him against 1 WORKER who did see him my money is on the ONE WHO DID SEE HIM...
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  • @KenH
    You got it wrong. Kalid Sheikh Mohammed confessed to being killer of JFK. If not for waterboarding the mystery of the JFK assassination would never have been solved.

    How old was kalid in 1963? Was he even born?

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  • One thing “Oswald worked for the CIA” theorists don’t realize is that no government agency of any nation would allow an operative to live in the absolute poverty of the Oswald family. A single man could perhaps, perhaps have operated in and out of minimum wage jobs. But with a totally dependent wife, one baby and another on the way Oswald could barely pay rent.

    To go fetch his rifle he had to beg a ride from a co worker. The same co worker brought him back to work the day of the killing. His rifle was stashed, with no charge in a suburb with no public transportation.
    What kind of CIA, Israeli, KGB operative can’t afford to keep his rifle in a public storage unit or can’t afford some kind of shabby studio instead of a boarding house. What kind of operative can’t afford a car or driving lessons, particulary in 1960′s Dallas?

    Read More
    • Replies: @bluedog
    Where did you dream up that they lived in poverty for he was given a very very good job in a contract company doing work for the government,part of his job was doing overlay work on maps where the U2 flights were going over Cuba and where his previous training in Japan on U2 flights came into play, after all he held a crpyto clearance which is above top secret,a job arranged by the same one he was taken to after returning from Russia.
    As to why he went to Russia perhaps that can be explained by a man who was executive assistant to the Deputy Director of the CIA in 1959 the year Oswald defected at the time the U.S. was having a real problem in acquiring any information out of Russia, so the ONI hatched a program to send three dozen or so young men who were made to appear disenchanted poor and wanted to see what communism was all about,some only lasted a few weeks.They sent them into the Soviet Union,or into eastern Europe with the thought that they would be picked up recruited as KGB agents or double agents,the operation was run out of Nag's Head,North Carolina.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Stonehands
    So, you contend he was merely a dangerous malcontent who defected - yet he calls the shots- upon demanding re-entry to the US?

    When Oswald defected and re defected, it was standard policy for the State Department to buy tickets, hotel vouchers, etc to send stranded Americans home. A person like Oswald with no relatives to meet him and a very dependent wife and baby in tow would get a referral to the welfare department of the city in which they landed. NYC welfare department took care of them until they got home to Texas.

    It was standard procedure. It still is although the State Department will make stranded Americans jump through hoops to get a ticket home.

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  • @Alden
    There is a picture in many of the books of 3 of Oswald's fellow employees in the windows on the fifth floor of the building. 2 looked out of one window, the window directly underneath the window the shots came from and where the shooters stand and rifle was found. The other man was in the next fifth floor window.

    They all testified that they heard the shots, felt the vibration and that dust fell from the ceiling pipes and shelves due to the vibration of the shots.

    I look at the Who Shot Kennedy genre as pure entertainment, like early John Le Carre and John Grisham, Len Deighton etc. The event generates vast amounts of books and discussion, sort of like the Bible.

    Who knows?

    Hmm strange for another worker testified that right after the shots she saw him sitting in the lunch room drinking a coke some 3 or floors below nor did he seem out of breath,and one thing I have never read nor seen is where are the empty shell cases, for he sure wouldn’t have took them with him, the reason of course is because those shots never came from those windows to begin with and the reason they were never placed in evidence..

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    • Replies: @Alden
    3 people who were right under the window from which he fired from as opposed to 1 worker who observed him in a lunch room at some time before shots were fired.
    , @Alden
    Guess you never heard of picking up the casings and dumping them in a convenient bus stop trash can?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Alden
    There is a picture in many of the books of 3 of Oswald's fellow employees in the windows on the fifth floor of the building. 2 looked out of one window, the window directly underneath the window the shots came from and where the shooters stand and rifle was found. The other man was in the next fifth floor window.

    They all testified that they heard the shots, felt the vibration and that dust fell from the ceiling pipes and shelves due to the vibration of the shots.

    I look at the Who Shot Kennedy genre as pure entertainment, like early John Le Carre and John Grisham, Len Deighton etc. The event generates vast amounts of books and discussion, sort of like the Bible.

    Who knows?

    Yes who knows but when congress re-visited the evidence some years later they had this to say yes there were more then one involved in the shooting of JFK and yes it was a conspiracy..

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    • Replies: @Alden
    Only the naive and credulous believe any conclusions made by congressional committees.
    Remember that the committee hearings that came to that conclusion held hearings after 15 years and at least a thousand books of the CIA FBI Mafia military oil industry etc etc etc all conspired to kill Kennedy
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  • @Sean
    Walker was confined in a mental institution for three days , and if Kennedy had had his way Walker would have been kept there for THREE MONTHS. His crime was simply criticism of Kennedy's policies

    No one knows what Oswald said during his visit to the Cuban embassy. He had already tried to shoot Walker so assassination was on his mind and it is conceivable he offered to kill Kennedy when trying to get the Cubans to let him in the country. One thing is certain, he said he was a Marxist.

    I think you need to research actual secret service operations such as the French secret agents blowing up that Greenpeace ship, in New Zealand and trying to blame it on the British, or the Russians secret agents' polonium assassination of Alexander Litvinenko in London to get a sense of what they can do and what they might actually attempt. Secret services are comically inept--except in the movies, which cater to a need for suspending belief.

    Who said he tried to shoot Walker for that’s never been proven except by a shopped photo which was debunked long ago.As well as his visit to the embassy in Mexico which was also proven to not be Oswald at all and lol you are reaching the Russian killing of Alexander Litvinenko another far reach for that was never proved either ,you seem to deal in way out schemes only known to your mind it seems…

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  • @Sean
    He offered to come back if the US dropped all charges, and the US embassy gave him the money to travel back to the US. Revilo Oliver brought that up, but no one else seems to have thought it indicative of a covert operation and indeed it seems rather silly to suggest a plan for an operation to make Oswald appear a Soviet agent would have no provision for getting him into the US without official US help.


    The Soviets had a good look at Oswald and they would know a CIA agent when they saw him, if he fooled them it could only be because his arrival in Russia was virtually unprecedented. In other words a CIA operative Oswald would have been a virtually unprecedented operation--for what purpose?

    Oswald was in the Soviet Union, from October 1959 to June 1962. Can you cast any light on why the CIA sent Oswald to the USSR in October 1959? That seems a remarkably prescient move if he was there as part of a plot to have Kennedy killed in December 1963 If not, what on earth were they planning on using him for?

    A CIA Oswald would be a star agent being willing to deliver himself into the hands of the KGB and run the risk of them identifying him as a CIA agent , which would have meant Siberia or much worse. And you think Oswald did this without knowing what he was doing it all for?

    So, you contend he was merely a dangerous malcontent who defected – yet he calls the shots- upon demanding re-entry to the US?

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    • Replies: @Alden
    When Oswald defected and re defected, it was standard policy for the State Department to buy tickets, hotel vouchers, etc to send stranded Americans home. A person like Oswald with no relatives to meet him and a very dependent wife and baby in tow would get a referral to the welfare department of the city in which they landed. NYC welfare department took care of them until they got home to Texas.

    It was standard procedure. It still is although the State Department will make stranded Americans jump through hoops to get a ticket home.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Sean
    He offered to come back if the US dropped all charges, and the US embassy gave him the money to travel back to the US. Revilo Oliver brought that up, but no one else seems to have thought it indicative of a covert operation and indeed it seems rather silly to suggest a plan for an operation to make Oswald appear a Soviet agent would have no provision for getting him into the US without official US help.


    The Soviets had a good look at Oswald and they would know a CIA agent when they saw him, if he fooled them it could only be because his arrival in Russia was virtually unprecedented. In other words a CIA operative Oswald would have been a virtually unprecedented operation--for what purpose?

    Oswald was in the Soviet Union, from October 1959 to June 1962. Can you cast any light on why the CIA sent Oswald to the USSR in October 1959? That seems a remarkably prescient move if he was there as part of a plot to have Kennedy killed in December 1963 If not, what on earth were they planning on using him for?

    A CIA Oswald would be a star agent being willing to deliver himself into the hands of the KGB and run the risk of them identifying him as a CIA agent , which would have meant Siberia or much worse. And you think Oswald did this without knowing what he was doing it all for?

    Hmm are you one of those who think all the Russians are stupid of course they knew Oswald was C.I.A. and had been ever since he was stationed in Japan, where he was privileged into listening to the U-2 flights, and of course Oswald was not in on the killing of JFK, why he was sent to Russia perhaps for the pro-Castro group to set up his cover on his return seeing he was involved in running guns to the anti=Castro group, but one thing we do know from the sworn testimony of a woman who worked in the records department of the CIA was that his file had been tagged which ment that the CIA didn’t trust him thus the perfect patsy,,,

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    • Replies: @Sean

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/new-book-reveals-how-much-fbi-cia-knew-about-oswald-before-kennedy-assassination/
    Much of the evidence Shenon includes in his book shows the amount of information about Oswald's time in Mexico that either never reached the Warren Commission investigators or was directly contradicted in reports by the CIA. One example is a June 1964 memo to the commission's lead investigator from J. Edgar Hoover, the FBI director at the time of Kennedy's assassination, in which Hoover wrote about a report from "our people in Mexico" that " [Oswald] stormed into the embassy, demanded the visa, and when it was refused to him, headed out saying, 'I'm going to kill Kennedy for this.'" (it was unclear to Hoover whether the embassy in question was the Cuban or Soviet embassy in Mexico City). The investigators told Shenon they were certain they had never seen the memo, which disappeared before it reached them and only turned up in the classified archives of the CIA years later. [...] "There is some evidence to suggest [Oswald] had a brief relationship with a young Mexican woman ho worked at the Cuban embassy in Mexico City," Shenon said on "Face the Nation." "The Warren Commission actually wanted to interview that woman but Chief Justice Warren made the decision she would not be interviewed because he said 'she was a communist and we don't interview communists.'"

    A section of Scott's memoirs - which included details about the extent of the CIA's monitoring of Oswald in Mexico - was only declassified in the 1990s. The agency photographed Oswald outside of the Cuban and Soviet embassies in Mexico City, and recorded his phone calls while he was in Mexico, evidence that never reached the commission. Scott's memoirs also reveal that he thought there might have been a foreign conspiracy to kill Kennedy involving Oswald as a Communist agent, which contradicted what he told the Warren Commission.
     

    See, they minimized the commie connection. So framing commie countries was not the objective.

    At first blush Oswald was surely rather young to be selected for a long term sleeper operation , being barely 17 when he enlisted in the Marines , and still only 19 years old in 1959 when he arrived in the USSR; a few months before in April 1959, Castro had visited the U.S. where the CIA could have done just about anything they wanted to him.

    Of course there were files on him and of course the CIA and FBI knew all about him. That is the point. He wasn't an agent of anyone--he was a independent minded loose cannon, and that is why he embarrassed and wrong-footed every intelligence agency he came into contact with, including the KGB and the Cubans. Casto agreed to be questioned for the Warren Commission, no doubt he was truthful in denying Oswald was an agent of Cuba, but Oswald saved Cuba nonetheless.

    The nukes were gone and Cuba was helpless. Kennedy was going to use US military forces on Cuba next, but Oswald put a stop to all that. Just shows what one determined Marine and his rifle can accomplish.

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  • @Alden
    The American Air Force was supposed to bomb any and all Cuban forces on their way to attack the anti Castro forces. JFK refused to issue the order. With nothing to oppose the Cuban forces the invasion was a failure.

    How's this for a theory? JFK was only elected because the corrupt Chicago democrats created enough fraudulent votes to swing the Illinois electoral college to Kennedy. So he barely squeaked in. The economy was still in its full post war boom so that was not a concern.

    But between the Bay of Pigs, the Berlin Wall and the Cuban (actually Russian missiles based in Cuba) Missile Crisis Kennedy became perceived as weak in his battle with Russia. Remember, he was a fervent cold warrior, "pay any price, bear any burden" etc. Then too, a major base of the Democrats was labor union members. Yet his brother, RFK spend his career attacking labor unions. As AG RFK really went after labor unions.

    So here is my theory. His re election was just a year away. Between his weakness vis a vis Russia, his brothers anti labor union activities, and the fact that he only won his first election through massive fraud in Chicago, JFK and his advisors were worried about his re election.

    So the assassination was a charade designed to ensure a massive sympathy vote for JFK in the 1964 election.

    Another theory is that Mrs. Kennedy and her second husband Onassis were behind it all. I googled it once. There are about 3,000 books about the assassination. Every author starts out with his or her opinion and then twists the facts and often just makes things up to prove their original thesis.

    http://www.irishcentral.com/news/president-john-f-kennedy-predicted-his-own-assassination-123115643-237788731

    President John F. Kennedy’s secret interviews with his wife claim he warned his assassination would safeguard his legacy around a year before his death.

    JFK made the prediction about his reputation privately to his wife Jackie.

    Previously unheard conversations involving the First Lady in the months after JFK’s assassination reveal the president’s theory.

    The conversations date back to 1964 when Jacqueline Kennedy had in-depth conversations with historian Arthur M Schlesinger Jnr.

    Professor Robert Dallek, a popular Kennedy historian made the discovery after closely examining pages of “Jacqueline Kennedy’s Oral History.”

    “(JFK) said to Mrs Kennedy after his success in the Cuban Missile Crisis: ’If anyone’s going to kill me, it should happen now,”’

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  • @Sean
    Oswald's mentality is hardly an enigma. He left a message with an FBI agent that according to the agent's receptionist ended with a threat to blow up the FBI building. Oswald used the same rifle he later used on Kennedy to try and kill General Walker after he spoke out against Kennedy race policies. Incidentally, as his big brother's Attorney General, Robert Kennedy had tried to have Walker confined for 3 months in an insane asylum, surely an early sign of what to expect as Kennedy's presidency played out- the pathologizing of dissent.

    Immediately after Kennedy was shot, Oswald fled the scene and went back home and got a 38 revolver (which had been dispatched to him under a fake name along with the famous rifle) and when stopped by a policeman, Oswald instantly shot him dead . Not exactly the actions of an innocent man, a low ranking conspirator, or a patsy. For the avoidance of doubt let me add that after shooting Tippit dead in the street in broad daylight and calling him a 'dumb cop', perma-smirking Lee Harvey took the time to eject the spent cartridges and reload his revolver. All he needed to be a lone gunman was balls and bullets, and he had plenty of both.

    There is a picture in many of the books of 3 of Oswald’s fellow employees in the windows on the fifth floor of the building. 2 looked out of one window, the window directly underneath the window the shots came from and where the shooters stand and rifle was found. The other man was in the next fifth floor window.

    They all testified that they heard the shots, felt the vibration and that dust fell from the ceiling pipes and shelves due to the vibration of the shots.

    I look at the Who Shot Kennedy genre as pure entertainment, like early John Le Carre and John Grisham, Len Deighton etc. The event generates vast amounts of books and discussion, sort of like the Bible.

    Who knows?

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    • Replies: @bluedog
    Yes who knows but when congress re-visited the evidence some years later they had this to say yes there were more then one involved in the shooting of JFK and yes it was a conspiracy..
    , @bluedog
    Hmm strange for another worker testified that right after the shots she saw him sitting in the lunch room drinking a coke some 3 or floors below nor did he seem out of breath,and one thing I have never read nor seen is where are the empty shell cases, for he sure wouldn't have took them with him, the reason of course is because those shots never came from those windows to begin with and the reason they were never placed in evidence..
    , @Sean
    He was seen at a range using the rifle with extra high powered cartridges that created a great deal of muzzle blast.
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  • @bluedog
    Of course they don't believe it for not everyone is insane, and of course Walker was not confined because the courts ruled it unconstitutional now I don't know what your dog is in trying to perpetuate the debunked story that it was some lone nut working for Castro,but trust me that dog won't hunt...

    Walker was confined in a mental institution for three days , and if Kennedy had had his way Walker would have been kept there for THREE MONTHS. His crime was simply criticism of Kennedy’s policies

    No one knows what Oswald said during his visit to the Cuban embassy. He had already tried to shoot Walker so assassination was on his mind and it is conceivable he offered to kill Kennedy when trying to get the Cubans to let him in the country. One thing is certain, he said he was a Marxist.

    I think you need to research actual secret service operations such as the French secret agents blowing up that Greenpeace ship, in New Zealand and trying to blame it on the British, or the Russians secret agents’ polonium assassination of Alexander Litvinenko in London to get a sense of what they can do and what they might actually attempt. Secret services are comically inept–except in the movies, which cater to a need for suspending belief.

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    • Replies: @bluedog
    Who said he tried to shoot Walker for that's never been proven except by a shopped photo which was debunked long ago.As well as his visit to the embassy in Mexico which was also proven to not be Oswald at all and lol you are reaching the Russian killing of Alexander Litvinenko another far reach for that was never proved either ,you seem to deal in way out schemes only known to your mind it seems...
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  • @dearieme
    "the CIA’s bungling Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba": come off it. It was JFK's invasion: he gave it the green light. The CIA were simply the mutton-heads who had planned and executed it.

    "Although Kennedy was elected in 1960 as a Cold Warrior, he moved away from a hardline stance almost immediately after being elected." I suspect you mean "although JFK told flagrant lies about the Soviet missile threat during his election campaign, he had no need to repeat those lies in office".

    "he was ... beginning to withdraw U.S. troops from Vietnam": he'd put them there in the first place. It was Kennedy's War, illuminated by his having the South Vietnamese Prime Minister assassinated.

    "Historians disagree about whether Kennedy was serious about peace with Cuba, as there were also plans for an all-out invasion of the island happening at the same time." Hm: "there were also plans" - there's a moral agent missing there. Plans don't just happen.

    "The book likened the Kennedy brothers to the Roman Grachii and their fight against corruption in the Roman Republic." Hats off for the guffaw. That's about as likely as a pressure group "Clintons Against Corruption".

    "But regarding Vietnam, more and more support for the notion that JFK would not have escalated the conflict": mere onjecture; utterly unknowable.

    I do get fed up with all the sentimental guff about JFK, who was just another unprincipled scoundrel occupying the White House for his own ends.

    The American Air Force was supposed to bomb any and all Cuban forces on their way to attack the anti Castro forces. JFK refused to issue the order. With nothing to oppose the Cuban forces the invasion was a failure.

    How’s this for a theory? JFK was only elected because the corrupt Chicago democrats created enough fraudulent votes to swing the Illinois electoral college to Kennedy. So he barely squeaked in. The economy was still in its full post war boom so that was not a concern.

    But between the Bay of Pigs, the Berlin Wall and the Cuban (actually Russian missiles based in Cuba) Missile Crisis Kennedy became perceived as weak in his battle with Russia. Remember, he was a fervent cold warrior, “pay any price, bear any burden” etc. Then too, a major base of the Democrats was labor union members. Yet his brother, RFK spend his career attacking labor unions. As AG RFK really went after labor unions.

    So here is my theory. His re election was just a year away. Between his weakness vis a vis Russia, his brothers anti labor union activities, and the fact that he only won his first election through massive fraud in Chicago, JFK and his advisors were worried about his re election.

    So the assassination was a charade designed to ensure a massive sympathy vote for JFK in the 1964 election.

    Another theory is that Mrs. Kennedy and her second husband Onassis were behind it all. I googled it once. There are about 3,000 books about the assassination. Every author starts out with his or her opinion and then twists the facts and often just makes things up to prove their original thesis.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sean

    http://www.irishcentral.com/news/president-john-f-kennedy-predicted-his-own-assassination-123115643-237788731

    President John F. Kennedy’s secret interviews with his wife claim he warned his assassination would safeguard his legacy around a year before his death.

    JFK made the prediction about his reputation privately to his wife Jackie.

    Previously unheard conversations involving the First Lady in the months after JFK’s assassination reveal the president’s theory.

    The conversations date back to 1964 when Jacqueline Kennedy had in-depth conversations with historian Arthur M Schlesinger Jnr.

    Professor Robert Dallek, a popular Kennedy historian made the discovery after closely examining pages of “Jacqueline Kennedy’s Oral History.”

    “(JFK) said to Mrs Kennedy after his success in the Cuban Missile Crisis: ’If anyone’s going to kill me, it should happen now,”’
     
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  • @Stonehands
    Sean, another glaring mystery:

    How was Oswald allowed to re-enter the US after defecting to the USSR _during the height of the cold war?

    He offered to come back if the US dropped all charges, and the US embassy gave him the money to travel back to the US. Revilo Oliver brought that up, but no one else seems to have thought it indicative of a covert operation and indeed it seems rather silly to suggest a plan for an operation to make Oswald appear a Soviet agent would have no provision for getting him into the US without official US help.

    The Soviets had a good look at Oswald and they would know a CIA agent when they saw him, if he fooled them it could only be because his arrival in Russia was virtually unprecedented. In other words a CIA operative Oswald would have been a virtually unprecedented operation–for what purpose?

    Oswald was in the Soviet Union, from October 1959 to June 1962. Can you cast any light on why the CIA sent Oswald to the USSR in October 1959? That seems a remarkably prescient move if he was there as part of a plot to have Kennedy killed in December 1963 If not, what on earth were they planning on using him for?

    A CIA Oswald would be a star agent being willing to deliver himself into the hands of the KGB and run the risk of them identifying him as a CIA agent , which would have meant Siberia or much worse. And you think Oswald did this without knowing what he was doing it all for?

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    • Replies: @bluedog
    Hmm are you one of those who think all the Russians are stupid of course they knew Oswald was C.I.A. and had been ever since he was stationed in Japan, where he was privileged into listening to the U-2 flights, and of course Oswald was not in on the killing of JFK, why he was sent to Russia perhaps for the pro-Castro group to set up his cover on his return seeing he was involved in running guns to the anti=Castro group, but one thing we do know from the sworn testimony of a woman who worked in the records department of the CIA was that his file had been tagged which ment that the CIA didn't trust him thus the perfect patsy,,,
    , @Stonehands
    So, you contend he was merely a dangerous malcontent who defected - yet he calls the shots- upon demanding re-entry to the US?
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  • @Stonehands
    Sean, another glaring mystery:

    How was Oswald allowed to re-enter the US after defecting to the USSR _during the height of the cold war?

    Simple really for Oswald was working for the C.I.A. and upon his re-entry into the U.S. was met and welcomed by order of U.S. government he had betrayed.The Warren Report tells us that on the recommendation of the State Department, the Oswald’s were greeted at the dock by Spas T. Raikin, a representative of the Traveler’s Aid Society, who had extensive intelligence connections where he was introduced to George de Mohrenschildt who stated that late in 1961 he had met with the C.I.A’a J. Walton Moore who passed Oswald off on to him and the rest is history as they say..

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    • Replies: @Alden
    Raiken took them to the NYC welfare dept. Travelers Aid helped thousands of people that year. Oswald was supposed to
    pay the state department back for the cost of transportation. That's standard procedure for stranded Americans whose fare home is paid by the state department

    It was not special treatment.
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  • @Sean
    Oswald's mentality is hardly an enigma. He left a message with an FBI agent that according to the agent's receptionist ended with a threat to blow up the FBI building. Oswald used the same rifle he later used on Kennedy to try and kill General Walker after he spoke out against Kennedy race policies. Incidentally, as his big brother's Attorney General, Robert Kennedy had tried to have Walker confined for 3 months in an insane asylum, surely an early sign of what to expect as Kennedy's presidency played out- the pathologizing of dissent.

    Immediately after Kennedy was shot, Oswald fled the scene and went back home and got a 38 revolver (which had been dispatched to him under a fake name along with the famous rifle) and when stopped by a policeman, Oswald instantly shot him dead . Not exactly the actions of an innocent man, a low ranking conspirator, or a patsy. For the avoidance of doubt let me add that after shooting Tippit dead in the street in broad daylight and calling him a 'dumb cop', perma-smirking Lee Harvey took the time to eject the spent cartridges and reload his revolver. All he needed to be a lone gunman was balls and bullets, and he had plenty of both.

    Sean, another glaring mystery:

    How was Oswald allowed to re-enter the US after defecting to the USSR _during the height of the cold war?

    Read More
    • Replies: @bluedog
    Simple really for Oswald was working for the C.I.A. and upon his re-entry into the U.S. was met and welcomed by order of U.S. government he had betrayed.The Warren Report tells us that on the recommendation of the State Department, the Oswald's were greeted at the dock by Spas T. Raikin, a representative of the Traveler's Aid Society, who had extensive intelligence connections where he was introduced to George de Mohrenschildt who stated that late in 1961 he had met with the C.I.A'a J. Walton Moore who passed Oswald off on to him and the rest is history as they say..
    , @Sean
    He offered to come back if the US dropped all charges, and the US embassy gave him the money to travel back to the US. Revilo Oliver brought that up, but no one else seems to have thought it indicative of a covert operation and indeed it seems rather silly to suggest a plan for an operation to make Oswald appear a Soviet agent would have no provision for getting him into the US without official US help.


    The Soviets had a good look at Oswald and they would know a CIA agent when they saw him, if he fooled them it could only be because his arrival in Russia was virtually unprecedented. In other words a CIA operative Oswald would have been a virtually unprecedented operation--for what purpose?

    Oswald was in the Soviet Union, from October 1959 to June 1962. Can you cast any light on why the CIA sent Oswald to the USSR in October 1959? That seems a remarkably prescient move if he was there as part of a plot to have Kennedy killed in December 1963 If not, what on earth were they planning on using him for?

    A CIA Oswald would be a star agent being willing to deliver himself into the hands of the KGB and run the risk of them identifying him as a CIA agent , which would have meant Siberia or much worse. And you think Oswald did this without knowing what he was doing it all for?

    , @Alden
    Um, there is no law or precedent to prevent a defector or any kind of ex pat from returning to the USA.

    The real mystery is why the soviets allowed the wife and baby to leave. As far as I know, she was one of only two Russian wives of foreigners allowed to leave between 1930 and 1980. The other one was married to an Anerucan diplomat in the 1950s

    There were several hundred Russian wives married to foreigners who were not allowed to leave Russia at the time. They and the children stayed in Russia.
    , @pogohere
    Bingo!
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  • @Sean
    The Attorney General had Walker forcibly taken to a mental institution and confined there against his will, thereby depriving him of his, civic rights, also political credibility.

    Walker warned the Kennedys were turning the US into a totalitarian state and the next thing the Kennedys used their power to treat him like he was a Soviet dissident. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sluggish_schizophrenia

    An avowed leftist killed Kennedy, and no one wanted to believe it, they still don't.

    Of course they don’t believe it for not everyone is insane, and of course Walker was not confined because the courts ruled it unconstitutional now I don’t know what your dog is in trying to perpetuate the debunked story that it was some lone nut working for Castro,but trust me that dog won’t hunt…

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    • Replies: @Sean
    Walker was confined in a mental institution for three days , and if Kennedy had had his way Walker would have been kept there for THREE MONTHS. His crime was simply criticism of Kennedy's policies

    No one knows what Oswald said during his visit to the Cuban embassy. He had already tried to shoot Walker so assassination was on his mind and it is conceivable he offered to kill Kennedy when trying to get the Cubans to let him in the country. One thing is certain, he said he was a Marxist.

    I think you need to research actual secret service operations such as the French secret agents blowing up that Greenpeace ship, in New Zealand and trying to blame it on the British, or the Russians secret agents' polonium assassination of Alexander Litvinenko in London to get a sense of what they can do and what they might actually attempt. Secret services are comically inept--except in the movies, which cater to a need for suspending belief.

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  • According to PD Scott

    “the President was murdered by a coalition of forces inside and outside government …a synergetic performance by internal ingredients of that deep political system”.

    That means hidden forces such as the illegal CIA operations within the US and organised crime not the Trilateral commission, clownish Texas billionaire (the Hunts pissed away one of the world’s great fortune trying to corner to silver market) let alone organised American manufacturers. The trouble with Scott is he uses the appellation Deep State to cover not just the the entire political and economic system, but the whole of the country, and the CIA and even the Trilateral commission are just a spicy topping in his multi-tiered cake, because he thoses everything into the mix.

    He is wide of the mark with what trump represents, because Trump is fist and foremost anti immigration, and no part of Big Money is not in favour of more immigration. Good grief , Clinton was giving speeches about open borders, and Trump was for a wall on the border.

    Trump repents the American voters who have come to regard their interest as being negatively affected by immigration. Mass immigration impact created a political entity more powerful than the military industrial complexes or deep state. Read John Dewey on how a new “public” is generated by those affected by an issue to understand: Trump represents the little guy who wants a Big Wall, not war.

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  • @bluedog
    Why didn't you post everything on General Walker who had a very checked past being chewed out by the Joint Chiefs and again by Ike until finally he crossed the line and was fired by JFK, and as far as who tried to kill Walker they don't have a clue, about the only truth in your post is that Robert Kennedy did try to have him committed for a mental evaluation which from his past behavior was long overdue...

    The Attorney General had Walker forcibly taken to a mental institution and confined there against his will, thereby depriving him of his, civic rights, also political credibility.

    Walker warned the Kennedys were turning the US into a totalitarian state and the next thing the Kennedys used their power to treat him like he was a Soviet dissident. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sluggish_schizophrenia

    An avowed leftist killed Kennedy, and no one wanted to believe it, they still don’t.

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    • Replies: @bluedog
    Of course they don't believe it for not everyone is insane, and of course Walker was not confined because the courts ruled it unconstitutional now I don't know what your dog is in trying to perpetuate the debunked story that it was some lone nut working for Castro,but trust me that dog won't hunt...
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  • @utu
    "whether JFK agreed with or disagreed with Israel’s nuclear program to create a nuclear weapon is completely irrelevant in his death."

    How do you know it? Because you have read one book that point to LBJ? And why this one and not hundreds of other with different theories? There is a book that Onassis did. Why not Onassis?

    The field of JFK assassination conspiracy is full of nuts like you who think they know.

    #98 utu, I can turn that same question just as easily back onto you! How do YOU know it? Because you have read ONE BOOK that points to Israel?

    BTW, I have read over 20 books on JFKs murder over the past 40 years.
    Nobody else, except that ONE AUTHOR (Michael Collins Piper, 1998) has written a book accusing Israel of the murder.

    Ok, smartguy! What was Onassis’ motive, his means, and opportunity for killing JFK, that is irresistible and with concrete documentation?

    The field of JFK assassination conspiracy is full of nuts like you who think they know, but they don’t know, and haven’t read tens of books over 40 years, as I have with those authors positing many, numerous ‘guilty’ people in murdering the 35th President. But the one with the most common sense and evidence is LBJ with his key allies (ex, CIA, Military, anti-Castro Cubans, Big Oil, etc. who despised JFK for a variety of individual reasons), built-up over decades in government

    Contrast your ONE AUTHOR with at least FIVE authors documenting LBJ as the ringleader of the coup d’etat. And LBJ as VP had plenty to gain–and plenty to lose if he did NOT become President when he did. He was under investigation by the Senate for financial corruption and bribery (kickbacks, plus demands for money to get legislation through the Senate when he was President of the Senate–i.e., VP), plus an expose by LIFE magazine that was going to come out the very next week (Mon. Nov. 25) showing his corrupt financial crimes along with his right-hand man, Bobby Baker as also in on the criminal actions. Getting to be President immediately ended the Senate investigation into LBJ, removed LBJ from the expose by LIFE to include Bobby Baker only, and got LBJ his prize that he dreamed about since he was 10 years old, and bragged to his little friends that someday he would become President. JFK and then Bobby stood in his way, and at 55, he didn’t have much time to live, given his male ancestors had a history of dying young from heart disease. And he died exactly that way only 9 years later, at the relatively young age of 64 in Jan. 1973.

    Here are the FIVE different authors over a span of over 13 years, that beats one author over a span of only one year that was written way back in 1998:

    https://www.amazon.com/Blood-Money-Power-L-B-J-Killed/dp/0963784625

    “Blood, Money, & Power: How LBJ Killed JFK” by Barr McClellan (Sep. 1, 2003) pb 400 pp.
    Original in Hardcover – September 1, 2003
    |

    https://www.amazon.com/Blood-Money-Power-How-Killed/dp/161608197X

    “Blood, Money, & Power: How LBJ Killed JFK” by Barr McClellan (Feb. 23, 2011) pb 464 pp.
    “Blood, Money, & Power exposes the secret, high-level conspiracy in Texas that led to President John F. Kennedy’s death and the succession of Lyndon B. Johnson as president in 1963. Attorney Barr McClellan, a former member of L.B.J.’s legal team, uses hundreds of newly released documents, including insider interviews, court papers, and the Warren Commission, to illuminate the maneuvers, payoffs, and power plays that revolved around the assassination of Kennedy and to expose L.B.J.’s involvement in the murder plot.”

    http://www.amazon.com/LBJ-Mastermind-Assassination-Phillip-Nelson/dp/1620876108

    “LBJ: The Mastermind of the JFK Assassination” by Phillip F. Nelson (Jul. 1, 2013) pb 656 pp.

    https://www.amazon.com/Dark-Side-Lyndon-Baines-Johnson/dp/1771520094

    “The Dark Side of Lyndon Baines Johnson” by Joachim Joesten (1968 UK, Apr. 4, 2013) 396 pp.

    https://www.amazon.com/LBJ-Kennedy-Killing-James-Tague/dp/1937584747

    “LBJ and the Kennedy Killing” by James T. Tague (Oct. 22, 2013) pb 448 pp.

    https://www.amazon.com/Man-Who-Killed-Kennedy-Against/dp/1629144894

    “The Man Who Killed Kennedy” by Roger Stone pb, reprint ed. 480 pp. (Sep. 2, 2014)

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  • @utu
    "whether JFK agreed with or disagreed with Israel’s nuclear program to create a nuclear weapon is completely irrelevant in his death."

    How do you know it? Because you have read one book that point to LBJ? And why this one and not hundreds of other with different theories? There is a book that Onassis did. Why not Onassis?

    The field of JFK assassination conspiracy is full of nuts like you who think they know.

    In the matter of conspiracies such as this (nine 11 etc) it is usually helpful to ask, who had the means to bypass the established layers of security? Who had the means to control the event itself and effect both the act and an escape? Who had the means to control the subsequent investigation and effect an enduring cover-up?

    Certainly not Onassis, nor the mob (though they could have been assigned a role) and even oilmen on their own would have difficulty controlling the judiciary and the media, ongoing to this day.

    The JFK job was from the very top and from behind the curtain.

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  • @Sean
    Oswald's mentality is hardly an enigma. He left a message with an FBI agent that according to the agent's receptionist ended with a threat to blow up the FBI building. Oswald used the same rifle he later used on Kennedy to try and kill General Walker after he spoke out against Kennedy race policies. Incidentally, as his big brother's Attorney General, Robert Kennedy had tried to have Walker confined for 3 months in an insane asylum, surely an early sign of what to expect as Kennedy's presidency played out- the pathologizing of dissent.

    Immediately after Kennedy was shot, Oswald fled the scene and went back home and got a 38 revolver (which had been dispatched to him under a fake name along with the famous rifle) and when stopped by a policeman, Oswald instantly shot him dead . Not exactly the actions of an innocent man, a low ranking conspirator, or a patsy. For the avoidance of doubt let me add that after shooting Tippit dead in the street in broad daylight and calling him a 'dumb cop', perma-smirking Lee Harvey took the time to eject the spent cartridges and reload his revolver. All he needed to be a lone gunman was balls and bullets, and he had plenty of both.

    Why didn’t you post everything on General Walker who had a very checked past being chewed out by the Joint Chiefs and again by Ike until finally he crossed the line and was fired by JFK, and as far as who tried to kill Walker they don’t have a clue, about the only truth in your post is that Robert Kennedy did try to have him committed for a mental evaluation which from his past behavior was long overdue…

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    • Replies: @Sean
    The Attorney General had Walker forcibly taken to a mental institution and confined there against his will, thereby depriving him of his, civic rights, also political credibility.

    Walker warned the Kennedys were turning the US into a totalitarian state and the next thing the Kennedys used their power to treat him like he was a Soviet dissident. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sluggish_schizophrenia

    An avowed leftist killed Kennedy, and no one wanted to believe it, they still don't.
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  • @utu
    "whether JFK agreed with or disagreed with Israel’s nuclear program to create a nuclear weapon is completely irrelevant in his death."

    How do you know it? Because you have read one book that point to LBJ? And why this one and not hundreds of other with different theories? There is a book that Onassis did. Why not Onassis?

    The field of JFK assassination conspiracy is full of nuts like you who think they know.

    Hmm maybe and maybe not for J.F.K. had come down hard on the Jews in Israel something they aren’t use to, as the attack on the Liberty shows and LBJ’S remark that he wanted that G,D, ship on the bottom of the ocean I presume with all the American seamen on board,and of course that’s the problem everything is labeled a conspiracy that way the truth is always hidden from the public eye..

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  • @Sean
    Oswald's mentality is hardly an enigma. He left a message with an FBI agent that according to the agent's receptionist ended with a threat to blow up the FBI building. Oswald used the same rifle he later used on Kennedy to try and kill General Walker after he spoke out against Kennedy race policies. Incidentally, as his big brother's Attorney General, Robert Kennedy had tried to have Walker confined for 3 months in an insane asylum, surely an early sign of what to expect as Kennedy's presidency played out- the pathologizing of dissent.

    Immediately after Kennedy was shot, Oswald fled the scene and went back home and got a 38 revolver (which had been dispatched to him under a fake name along with the famous rifle) and when stopped by a policeman, Oswald instantly shot him dead . Not exactly the actions of an innocent man, a low ranking conspirator, or a patsy. For the avoidance of doubt let me add that after shooting Tippit dead in the street in broad daylight and calling him a 'dumb cop', perma-smirking Lee Harvey took the time to eject the spent cartridges and reload his revolver. All he needed to be a lone gunman was balls and bullets, and he had plenty of both.

    I think your confused or else purposing mudding the water true Oswald did leave a letter with the F.B.I. receptionist which was simply signed Lee, but the letter itself the important part was warning of the attempt on the life of J.F.K. As far as purposing standing there reloading the spent shell so that everyone could see him or was it his double making sure he was seen and also where he went.As the one poster told you read more post less that way you won’t look so foolish…

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