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All Comments / By Cooper Sterling
 All Comments / By Cooper Sterling
    As America braces for the annual fawn-fest on Martin Luther King Day (January 15), it’s worth noting that a recent revelation from the FBI archives might have threatened King’s hallowed status—if it had been honestly reported. But coverage in the Washington Post in particular exemplified what President Trump calls “fake news.” On November 4, 2017,...
  • Cooper says:
    Not only had he been a tireless leader, fund-raiser, and advocate for the CPUSA for decades, he remained a Marxist at heart. His departure from the Party by 1956 was a technical matter, though grounded in a conviction about the hypocrisy and violent duplicity of the Soviets.

    But this very line from a work supposedly “exposing Communist connections” debunks several of King’s detractors who insist time and time again that Levinson was a zealous Soviet agent. That claim is false, as is the claim that Levinson was a member of the CPUSA when he worked with King on civil rights. And is it really “news” that King knew about Levinson’s background? He did, that fact has been known for almost 30 years.

    secret FBI dossier on King, dated March 12, 1968, surfaced during the release of archival documents relating to the Kennedy assassination. [Read it: PDF] Sensitive information about King, under seal for decades by the FBI, suddenly turned up on Internet sites. Several news organizations publicized the revelations, including CBS News, CNN, the New York Times, The Washington Post, the Drudge Report, and other outlets.

    This is old news. Allegations of an “orgy” were revealed over a decade ago by King lieutenant Hosea Williams, and were in turn debunked by one of the alleged participants who were there, as well as other researchers. And as David Garrow shows, the secret FBI dossier” on KIng is often inaccurate, and motivated by malice from the very malicious Herbert Hoover.

    The celebrations will commence, fake news will flourish, King’s warped legacy will percolate, violent crime will continue to plague Chicago, Baltimore, Ferguson and other urban areas, and guilt-ridden, middle-class whites will take in orchestral concerts in order to feel good—until the truth sets us free

    Violence was flourishing in Chicago, Baltimore and in Missouri, long BEFORE MLK showed up, and plenty of it was white violence.

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  • @Alden
    You’re thinking of Liberia. It wasn’t founded by American slaves. It was founded by American slave owners jointly with the American government as a place where free blacks could go home to Africa Most of the early settlers were the children of slave women and their White owners.

    ” Most of the early settlers were the children of slave women and their White owners.”

    Rather dubious. What credible source do you have to support this claim?

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  • Furthermore the article seems to accept much of the dishonest propaganda of the FBI ‘s decade-long smear campaign against King. at face value. But as respected scholar David Garrow shows, this smear campaign on several counts is marked by clear distortion and even outright falsehood. Keep in mind this is the same Garrow whose biography of King often reveals his failures, such as his womanizing, his writing problems, and weakness in taking a firm hand in resolving disputes among his lieutenants and various factions of the Civil rights Movement. The FBI’s operation of distorted circulars, anonymous letters, doctored transcripts, false rumors, planted stories, twisted “briefings” to various press and politicians (so they would help circulate the propaganda), and COINTELPRO excesses are all part of the documented smear campaign, and require caution and appropriate skepticism when presented as “the truth” by King detractors. The real purveyors of “fake news” are both the FBI and King’s enemies who are still butt-hurt that he triumphed over them in so many ways.

    And an element of hypocrisy is clearly present in the pious condemnations of King-Levinson-Rustin. Southern segregationists- at state, local and national levels received fulsome cash, manpower and other support from segregationists of the White Citizens Councils and other such organizations during the 1950s and 1960s. These were some of the same whites encouraging violence against blacks in the civil rights movement. They also organized boycotts and “sanctions” against uppity local negroes that participated in civil rights, including firing said negroes, calling in their mortgages and loans, and all sorts of other intimidation. Yet FBI Director Hoover and segregation loving folk, including those in the present era, have very little bad to say about such things, or the cash exchanging hands thereto. Its only when when King gets aid from Levinson et al that they break forth in righteous, and hypocritical dudgeon.

    Ironically all of King’s detractors have failed in discrediting him much. Most people today accept his failures- they make King more human and quintessentially American, rather than a saintly non-violence holy man type, like India’s Gandhi. Nor do they significantly affect the good work that he did for his people and America. The smear campaigns, the distorted media plants, the “new” revelations, etc have all failed. The Post doesn’t have to “avoid” anything. King is now a national icon, with his own national holiday, and a useful prop for both Republicans and Dems. King has had the last laugh after all, a last thumb in the eyes of his enemies.

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  • LOL much of this article is dubious drama- and its claim of “fake news” sounds more like “Tired Old News.” For one thing, King’s escapades are indeed old news, known now for well nigh a quarter of a century, and brought to a wide audience by “liberal” scholars like Taylor Branch. Thje Washington Post is not “evading” anything.

    And for the past 25 years we have all known that King associated with former members of the Communist Party, but so what? There are plenty of people who “associated” in Washington. John Kennedy had sexual trysts with an East German woman likely a potential Soviet agent, named Ellen Romtsch, and it was all hushed up when she was deported.

    Neither Rustin or Levinson were members of the CPUSA when they began to work with King on Civil Rights. This fact too is clearly revealed in FBI reports. And as regards the “shocking” assistance given to King by Levinson and Rustin the dire picture painted of the “end of America” is dubious. King needed cash for the movement, not to mention lots of bail money. Sympathetic people, who were sincerely fighting for civil rights, (and who were not members of the communist party mind you at the time) who could fund raise for him were welcome. Taking aid in the fight against a common enemy is news? Hell the US supplied plenty if aid to the communist Tito during the Cold War and before, and supplied arms and aid to a guy named Ho CHi Minh in Vietnam in exchange for intel on Japanese military operations. Simplistic red-baiting eventually has been discredited in the record of history, and even Joe “wild Accusation” McCarthy was censured way back in the 50s..

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  • @Anon
    Come on, Mayor Lindsay has to at least be in the running.

    Not really, no. Lindsay had many shortcomings, but he was an honest man. His performance as mayor (given the circumstances he was navigating) might have been under par (par not being good, btw), but he wasn’t responsible for the social catastrophe that Young and Barry were. The homicide rate in Detroit and DC had a peak 2.5x the New York peak. Other places as badly off as Detroit (e.g. Gary, Newark, Camden, Jersey City, Oakland, East St. Louis) were modest fragments of vast metropolitan fields and might have gone to sh!t even if they’d had satisfactory leadership just due to the dynamics of metropolitan housing markets). Another place which has been execrably governed is New Orleans. New Orleans captures about 40% of the metropolitan settlement, just like New York. However, New Orleans has homicide rates like Detroit’s (even though Detroit captures only 18% of the metropolitan settlement – basically the 18% with the most troublesome people resident).

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  • @Alden
    I read the book. You didn’t.

    Myrdal wrote that the black clergy were useless in the fight for civil rights. He wrote that they were lecherous and adulterers

    He also sneered at the singing, noise and happiness of black church services.

    It’s in “The American Dilemma “

    It doesn’t matter if you don’t believe my comments about Mrydal’s book. I read the book.

    You didn’t, yet you presume to tell me Myrdal didn’t write those opinions about black clergy and black church services.

    Go on, keep arguing about a book you have not read.

    Myrdal wrote that the black clergy were useless in the fight for civil rights. He wrote that they were lecherous and adulterers

    La di dah. My grandfather might have said the same thing at the same time. Both my grandfather and Gunnar Myrdal had the same deficiency: neither one had the personal fund of knowledge to make such a statement or the tools to acquire it.

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  • @KenH

    I don’t think there’s any evidence King beat his wife or that his sexual tastes were out of the ordinary.
     
    It doesn't seem conclusive or convincing, but blacks and leftists believe and advance every unflattering allegation made against white historical figures and then some, so I'm going to return the favor.

    Unless orgies were mainstream in the 1960's then King's sexual tastes were definitely out of the ordinary.

    Unless orgies were mainstream in the 1960′s then King’s sexual tastes were definitely out of the ordinary.

    Three guys in a room banging three broads indicates a lack of inhibition most of us don’t have. By perversion, I was referring to kinky things (including acts of sodomy). There may be evidence of that on the tapes, but IIRC, what the tapes show is that boatloads of women would lie down for him and he ate what was put on his plate. Most distasteful, but not kinky. That a number of those around King were participants in this does rather indict the inner sanctum of the SCLC. Rustin’s preferences were predominantly homosexual, so he wasn’t participating. I’ve not heard of any dirt on Hosea Williams or Ralph David Abernathy, either.

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  • @Art Deco
    I know he undertook that study. He still didn't have the skill set to study the family lives of clergymen and he almost certainly made no effort to do so.


    We all know how school desegregation turned out.

    School desegregation didn't "turn out badly". The decay of the school systems was driven by the public interest bar (and their instruments in the judiciary) and the social ideology of the teacher's colleges (manifested in school administrators). You want orderly schools, you have to sequester the incorrigibles. This they have refused to do and state legislatures do nothing to correct the problem. You want rigorous schools, you have to track, something else that's anathema to people who want to exploit the schools for social work projects. Neither order maintenance nor academic rigor mandate any particular distribution of students by ascribed traits.

    I read the book. You didn’t.

    Myrdal wrote that the black clergy were useless in the fight for civil rights. He wrote that they were lecherous and adulterers

    He also sneered at the singing, noise and happiness of black church services.

    It’s in “The American Dilemma “

    It doesn’t matter if you don’t believe my comments about Mrydal’s book. I read the book.

    You didn’t, yet you presume to tell me Myrdal didn’t write those opinions about black clergy and black church services.

    Go on, keep arguing about a book you have not read.

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Myrdal wrote that the black clergy were useless in the fight for civil rights. He wrote that they were lecherous and adulterers

    La di dah. My grandfather might have said the same thing at the same time. Both my grandfather and Gunnar Myrdal had the same deficiency: neither one had the personal fund of knowledge to make such a statement or the tools to acquire it.
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  • @Ilyana_Rozumova
    The truth about racism.

    I am a racist. You are a racist. he is a racist. She is a racist. All Jews are racists, All Blacks are racist.
    All Mexicans are racists. And also all Whites are racists.

    Here is another truth. (Nigerian emigrants}

    Nigeria is a country that was created by Black slaves leaving US.
    Now they want to come to US. Why? They are not happy with what they have created?
    Why they keep thinking that they have right to what whites in US had created.
    Why whites in US have no right of their own inheritance.

    Democrats are evil.

    You’re thinking of Liberia. It wasn’t founded by American slaves. It was founded by American slave owners jointly with the American government as a place where free blacks could go home to Africa Most of the early settlers were the children of slave women and their White owners.

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    • Replies: @EnrriqueCardovaaa
    " Most of the early settlers were the children of slave women and their White owners."

    Rather dubious. What credible source do you have to support this claim?
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  • @Art Deco
    I stated that I don’t know what King would have done with political power and influence. But I know that his family and associates were largely inept, corrupt, and race hustlers. They were not for justice and equality for all. The track record is there, and it’s obvious.

    I think the problem with most prominent people involved in that sort of extraparliamentary politics is that they were ordinary people with an odd skill set useful at that time. Whitney Young had had other irons in the fire and his organization had an institutional mission apart from political agitation (which it largely returned to after 1971). He died in 1971, a generation before most of his cohort. No telling what he might have done with the rest of his life. Roy Wilkins was over 70 in 1971 and had nowhere to go but out to grass. As for the rest of them, their life after 1971 was mostly unedifying. The two exceptions were Bayard Rustin, who landed a job working on the research staff of the AFL - CIO and James Farmer, who landed a teaching job at black college. They placed occasional pieces in newspapers and magazines and had speaking engagements now and again, but they mostly lived a that-was-then-this-is-now quiet life. Rap Brown was a restaurateur for a number of years, but came a cropper because he was a hoodlum at heart. Marion Barry was the one person who made a stab at a demanding public office. Alas, he was a ghastly failure. Aside from Coleman Young, you'd be hard put to find someone who did a worse job as a big city mayor between 1967 and 1999.

    As for King's family, they had all kinds of shortcomings. Coretta King would have done her children a favor if she'd settled in Atlanta or Boston, updated her teaching certificate, and gone back to work as a music teacher. She was very capable at the mechanics of public speaking, but never had much substantive to say worth bothering about. Her vocation wasn't her husband's vocation. One of her children is a serious person, alternating between law practice and ministerial positions in Atlanta. The other three have been clown car denizens living off royalties. Martin Luther King III is what happens when you take a man who might make a satisfactory sales rep and insist he be a public figure agitating for 'change'. All five of them needed to live their own lives and not follow some inane script.

    Come on, Mayor Lindsay has to at least be in the running.

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Not really, no. Lindsay had many shortcomings, but he was an honest man. His performance as mayor (given the circumstances he was navigating) might have been under par (par not being good, btw), but he wasn't responsible for the social catastrophe that Young and Barry were. The homicide rate in Detroit and DC had a peak 2.5x the New York peak. Other places as badly off as Detroit (e.g. Gary, Newark, Camden, Jersey City, Oakland, East St. Louis) were modest fragments of vast metropolitan fields and might have gone to sh!t even if they'd had satisfactory leadership just due to the dynamics of metropolitan housing markets). Another place which has been execrably governed is New Orleans. New Orleans captures about 40% of the metropolitan settlement, just like New York. However, New Orleans has homicide rates like Detroit's (even though Detroit captures only 18% of the metropolitan settlement - basically the 18% with the most troublesome people resident).
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • None of this FBI report is news, has been long in the public domain. It’s a laugh that the Soviet Puppet right would trot this stale stuff out now. It has long been known that the FBI shadowed King and many of the items in the 50s-60s reports are questionable, given the Hoover FBI’s documented biases.

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  • The truth about racism.

    I am a racist. You are a racist. he is a racist. She is a racist. All Jews are racists, All Blacks are racist.
    All Mexicans are racists. And also all Whites are racists.

    Here is another truth. (Nigerian emigrants}

    Nigeria is a country that was created by Black slaves leaving US.
    Now they want to come to US. Why? They are not happy with what they have created?
    Why they keep thinking that they have right to what whites in US had created.
    Why whites in US have no right of their own inheritance.

    Democrats are evil.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Alden
    You’re thinking of Liberia. It wasn’t founded by American slaves. It was founded by American slave owners jointly with the American government as a place where free blacks could go home to Africa Most of the early settlers were the children of slave women and their White owners.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Allan
    Junior was, at most, just clever and sly, as demagogues tend to be. Smart people don't need to fill their dissertations with "plagiarized passages".
     

    Boston U. Panel Finds Plagiarism by Dr. King
    The New York Times

    BOSTON, Oct. 10 [1991]— A committee of scholars appointed by Boston University concluded today that the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. plagiarized passages in his dissertation for a doctoral degree at the university 36 years ago.

    "There is no question," the committee said in a report to the university's provost, "but that Dr. King plagiarized in the dissertation by appropriating material from sources not explicitly credited in notes, or mistakenly credited, or credited generally and at some distance in the text from a close paraphrase or verbatim quotation."

    Despite its finding, the committee said that "no thought should be given to the revocation of Dr. King's doctoral degree," an action that the panel said would serve no purpose...

    http://www.nytimes.com/1991/10/11/us/boston-u-panel-finds-plagiarism-by-dr-king.html
     

    Tip your hat to Wally for his contribution to your understanding about the differences between "smart" and sly.

    I tend to like Milton Berle’s description of plagiarism: “He was so funny I dropped my pencil.”

    Other than that you’re just tabloid.

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  • @Art Deco
    I don't think there's any evidence King beat his wife or that his sexual tastes were out of the ordinary.

    I don’t think there’s any evidence King beat his wife or that his sexual tastes were out of the ordinary.

    It doesn’t seem conclusive or convincing, but blacks and leftists believe and advance every unflattering allegation made against white historical figures and then some, so I’m going to return the favor.

    Unless orgies were mainstream in the 1960′s then King’s sexual tastes were definitely out of the ordinary.

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Unless orgies were mainstream in the 1960′s then King’s sexual tastes were definitely out of the ordinary.

    Three guys in a room banging three broads indicates a lack of inhibition most of us don't have. By perversion, I was referring to kinky things (including acts of sodomy). There may be evidence of that on the tapes, but IIRC, what the tapes show is that boatloads of women would lie down for him and he ate what was put on his plate. Most distasteful, but not kinky. That a number of those around King were participants in this does rather indict the inner sanctum of the SCLC. Rustin's preferences were predominantly homosexual, so he wasn't participating. I've not heard of any dirt on Hosea Williams or Ralph David Abernathy, either.

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  • I grew up during the first “civil-rights” era and have a decidedly different “take” on this whole “civil-rights movement” era.

    Despite the lies and fabrications by the so-called “mainstream media” the Selma, Montgomery, and other so-called “civil-rights marches” were not peaceful “gatherings” that were met with dogs and fire hoses, but were violent black confrontations that actually set back the “cause” of “civil-rights”. .

    The so-called “civil-rights” demonstrations were outsider waves of lawlessness that disrupted the lives of peaceful citizens. There were many black citizens in these areas that were against these “outsiders” coming there to cause trouble. These “civil-rights” marchers committed crimes, rapes, robberies and other crimes, and trashed the areas they were protesting in.

    It is no secret that there was a certain group (the “tribe”) that worked both behind the scenes and actually assisted and encouraged most of the lawlessness and violence by these so-called “civil-rights” marchers. It was mostly ACLU, $PLC and ADL types that riled things up. . .and then later on “melted into the woodwork” only to become “civil-rights” attorneys, race hustlers and poverty pimps.

    One incident comes to mind–the death of Mrs. Viola Liuzzo–Mrs. Liuzzo was a Detroit housewife who traveled to the South to run around with “freedom riders” at night–this was a recipe that was asking for trouble. What business did she have running around with blacks at night in the South while she had a family in Detroit??

    I WAS THERE during the “civil-rights” disturbances and witnessed the misbehavior of these “civil-rights” groups (that never got reported). . .You see, as is the case today, the “news media of the day could not “let a crisis go to waste” and conveniently stopped recording when violence by these groups was evident.
    Of course, the “victors” write the history. To those of the “tribe”–how does it feel now that those you pushed and supported are now turning on you??

    It was well-known that the “hero” and “saint” Martin Luther King was a frequenter of prostitutes that he liked to abuse and beat. His own people have made statements about his moral transgressions. The only thing we got from Martin Luther King was a federal holiday.

    It might interest you to know that these “civil-rights (for some)” marches were orchestrated and run by New York based leftists who were considered modern-day “carpetbaggers” by us locals. They were there to stir up trouble (which they did quite well).

    The New York-based media conveniently turned off their movie cameras and their photographers conveniently “forgot” to record the violence that took place. You see, it was not in their “agenda” to report honestly. The black “civil-rights (for some)” movement was too important to be tarnished by the endemic carpetbagger black and jew violence that took place.

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  • OOOOOOOOOOO shit. Lets realize that Blacks had always hard time in US.
    The land was divided By whites. The business was created by whites. Blacks never had a chance.
    But life is never fair.
    What we can do about it?
    Nothing is possible to do about it.
    At least I cannot figure it out.
    Communism did fell on its own so its ideals did prove to be unworkable.
    …………………………………………………………………………………………………..

    So what is the solution?

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  • @WorkingClass
    Beats me. Here is the speech on YouTube:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Qf6x9_MLD0

    Speaking for myself - I am opposed to mass murder regardless of the identity of the perpetrators. How about you?

    Yes, it obviously beats you all right.

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  • @KenH
    Just think. A negro bigot, adulterer, plagiarist, wife beater, sex pervert and communist is, for all intents and purposes, accorded more respect than any of the founding fathers and considered the THE founding father of the new and improved America that came into being in 1965 thanks to the first phase of the American Bolshevik cultural revolution brought about by (((you know who))).

    There's a reason why portions of MLK's file won't be declassified until 2027 and even then it will probably be heavily redacted to protect the myth.

    Stanley Levison only broke with the Soviet Union because it was becoming less of a Jewish run plantation with Jews as a master race lording it over the hapless Slavs and even mass murdering them when they saw fit. Bloodthirsty Jews like Anna Pauker and Bela Kuhn (Cohen) among many others were violently purged and Jews were losing their privileged status throughout the Soviet Empire.
    http://www.nytimes.com/1991/07/27/obituaries/l-m-kaganovich-stalwart-of-stalin-dies-at-97.html

    If only we had a true leader who would begin purging them from power in America and throughout the Western world.

    I don’t think there’s any evidence King beat his wife or that his sexual tastes were out of the ordinary.

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    • Replies: @KenH

    I don’t think there’s any evidence King beat his wife or that his sexual tastes were out of the ordinary.
     
    It doesn't seem conclusive or convincing, but blacks and leftists believe and advance every unflattering allegation made against white historical figures and then some, so I'm going to return the favor.

    Unless orgies were mainstream in the 1960's then King's sexual tastes were definitely out of the ordinary.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @OilcanFloyd
    Why do you think tracking and getting rid of incorrigibless is frowned upon?

    I had an exchange with a school psychologist, now retired, who responded to my suggestion that troublesome youths be turned over to a division of the sheriff’s department which would hold them in detention and try to stuff some remedial schooling into them in interstices during the day. Oh, how could she do that! They were ‘disadvantaged’ and that would ‘make things worse for them’. Now, I could point out that the students at that school live just down the block from Little Lord Disadvantaged and she wasn’t doing them (or their teachers) any favors by leaving him in place. I think that would, of course, fail to grasp her real object, which was to feel better about herself. Acknowledging the reality of Original Sin manifest in the impossible conduct of some of her ‘disadvantaged’ clientele is rather incongruent with her self-image, as would be acknowledging that the world needs her a good deal less than it needs cops and jail guards, who tend not to be sentimental about their charges. What’s in it for her is presenting herself as a gentle and self-sacrificial soul doing her best to ‘make things better’ (even though she accomplishes not one thing of value). Her name, btw, is Susan O’Doherty, PsyD.

    Susan O’Doherty is an ass, of course, and given to a common form of asininity which has a distinctly feminine signature. See also Marva Collins account of why phonics as a method of reading instruction was so disdained in the elementary schools she had taught: it’s a repetitive mode of instruction that teachers found boring.

    Priorities within public agencies can and do default to what’s convenient for those who work in them. Within them, some people’s priorities are more equal than others.

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    • Agree: Johann Ricke
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  • Just think. A negro bigot, adulterer, plagiarist, wife beater, sex pervert and communist is, for all intents and purposes, accorded more respect than any of the founding fathers and considered the THE founding father of the new and improved America that came into being in 1965 thanks to the first phase of the American Bolshevik cultural revolution brought about by (((you know who))).

    There’s a reason why portions of MLK’s file won’t be declassified until 2027 and even then it will probably be heavily redacted to protect the myth.

    Stanley Levison only broke with the Soviet Union because it was becoming less of a Jewish run plantation with Jews as a master race lording it over the hapless Slavs and even mass murdering them when they saw fit. Bloodthirsty Jews like Anna Pauker and Bela Kuhn (Cohen) among many others were violently purged and Jews were losing their privileged status throughout the Soviet Empire.

    http://www.nytimes.com/1991/07/27/obituaries/l-m-kaganovich-stalwart-of-stalin-dies-at-97.html

    If only we had a true leader who would begin purging them from power in America and throughout the Western world.

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    I don't think there's any evidence King beat his wife or that his sexual tastes were out of the ordinary.
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  • @Greg Bacon

    Under Hoover, the FBI effectively protected the nation from foreign and domestic threats.
     
    When I first read this, I laughed, then realizing it wasn't April Fool's Day, I laughed at the author's white-washing of the sex fiend Hoover protecting America from threats.

    Hoover turned the FBI into a vast Stasi-like operation, illegally gathering info on many people, but mostly politicians and even entertainers, like John Lennon, focusing on recording intimate details of their sex life, which could--and sometimes was--used to blackmail that person into keeping quiet or the FBI will release the sordid details of your sexual romps.

    I imagine Hoover liked wearing a gown by Dior, perfume by Chanel and some bling from Harry Winston while listening with his very close friend Clyde Tolson, while they enjoyed each others sexual favors.

    For a pervert to shame others while holding himself and his mob-like FBI as some kind of model of purity is hypocritical, but what Hoover did to the FBI is lethal and a threat to all.
    He set the FBI on a course to become the vast police state enabler that it is, peeking into all American homes, while letting known gangsters, murderers and various politico creeps walk free, just like Hoover did when he claimed for decades that there was NO such thing as the Mob.

    Be that as it may…. because Hoover did that, everything MLK was involved in is moot?

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  • @David In TN
    Did King have any objection to mass murder when Communists were doing it?

    Beats me. Here is the speech on YouTube:

    Speaking for myself – I am opposed to mass murder regardless of the identity of the perpetrators. How about you?

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    • Replies: @David In TN
    Yes, it obviously beats you all right.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @OilcanFloyd
    I stated that I don't know what King would have done with political power and influence. But I know that his family and associates were largely inept, corrupt, and race hustlers. They were not for justice and equality for all. The track record is there, and it's obvious.

    I guess the proof is in the pudding . . . just to make sure I am on point . . . .

    I hate to be in a position defend Dr.. King and I won’t vouch for any of his family members except for.

    http://blog.arkansasalumni.org/campus-to-host-alveda-king-guardian-of-the-king-family-legacy/

    Whatever the discussion about dr. king;s family and their typical debates about what to with what their father built is hardly but a small slice of national agenda that spans the g;lobe. I won’t defend the problem his son has had, but there is little evidence that the family as core is corrupt – if any.

    The fact that they aren’t all that interested in continuing their father’s goals is neither a sign of ineptitude or corruption, despite the pressures and expectations of others.

    I would avoid any vague notions of “race hustling” motifs — calling attention to issues of color that may still exist doesn’t qualify as hustling.

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  • @WorkingClass
    MLK opposed Jim Crow and the Vietnam war. That's good enough for me. Was he a Commie? A horn dog? I don't give a shit.

    I served under Johnson and briefly under Nixon. Both of them mass murderers. But as far as I know neither was accused of plagiarism.

    Did King have any objection to mass murder when Communists were doing it?

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    • Replies: @WorkingClass
    Beats me. Here is the speech on YouTube:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Qf6x9_MLD0

    Speaking for myself - I am opposed to mass murder regardless of the identity of the perpetrators. How about you?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Art Deco
    I know he undertook that study. He still didn't have the skill set to study the family lives of clergymen and he almost certainly made no effort to do so.


    We all know how school desegregation turned out.

    School desegregation didn't "turn out badly". The decay of the school systems was driven by the public interest bar (and their instruments in the judiciary) and the social ideology of the teacher's colleges (manifested in school administrators). You want orderly schools, you have to sequester the incorrigibles. This they have refused to do and state legislatures do nothing to correct the problem. You want rigorous schools, you have to track, something else that's anathema to people who want to exploit the schools for social work projects. Neither order maintenance nor academic rigor mandate any particular distribution of students by ascribed traits.

    Why do you think tracking and getting rid of incorrigibless is frowned upon?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    I had an exchange with a school psychologist, now retired, who responded to my suggestion that troublesome youths be turned over to a division of the sheriff's department which would hold them in detention and try to stuff some remedial schooling into them in interstices during the day. Oh, how could she do that! They were 'disadvantaged' and that would 'make things worse for them'. Now, I could point out that the students at that school live just down the block from Little Lord Disadvantaged and she wasn't doing them (or their teachers) any favors by leaving him in place. I think that would, of course, fail to grasp her real object, which was to feel better about herself. Acknowledging the reality of Original Sin manifest in the impossible conduct of some of her 'disadvantaged' clientele is rather incongruent with her self-image, as would be acknowledging that the world needs her a good deal less than it needs cops and jail guards, who tend not to be sentimental about their charges. What's in it for her is presenting herself as a gentle and self-sacrificial soul doing her best to 'make things better' (even though she accomplishes not one thing of value). Her name, btw, is Susan O'Doherty, PsyD.

    Susan O'Doherty is an ass, of course, and given to a common form of asininity which has a distinctly feminine signature. See also Marva Collins account of why phonics as a method of reading instruction was so disdained in the elementary schools she had taught: it's a repetitive mode of instruction that teachers found boring.

    Priorities within public agencies can and do default to what's convenient for those who work in them. Within them, some people's priorities are more equal than others.

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  • @WorkingClass
    MLK opposed Jim Crow and the Vietnam war. That's good enough for me. Was he a Commie? A horn dog? I don't give a shit.

    I served under Johnson and briefly under Nixon. Both of them mass murderers. But as far as I know neither was accused of plagiarism.

    I served under Johnson and briefly under Nixon. Both of them mass murderers. B

    Your loyalty and esprit de corps are just overwhelming.

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  • @OilcanFloyd
    I stated that I don't know what King would have done with political power and influence. But I know that his family and associates were largely inept, corrupt, and race hustlers. They were not for justice and equality for all. The track record is there, and it's obvious.

    I stated that I don’t know what King would have done with political power and influence. But I know that his family and associates were largely inept, corrupt, and race hustlers. They were not for justice and equality for all. The track record is there, and it’s obvious.

    I think the problem with most prominent people involved in that sort of extraparliamentary politics is that they were ordinary people with an odd skill set useful at that time. Whitney Young had had other irons in the fire and his organization had an institutional mission apart from political agitation (which it largely returned to after 1971). He died in 1971, a generation before most of his cohort. No telling what he might have done with the rest of his life. Roy Wilkins was over 70 in 1971 and had nowhere to go but out to grass. As for the rest of them, their life after 1971 was mostly unedifying. The two exceptions were Bayard Rustin, who landed a job working on the research staff of the AFL – CIO and James Farmer, who landed a teaching job at black college. They placed occasional pieces in newspapers and magazines and had speaking engagements now and again, but they mostly lived a that-was-then-this-is-now quiet life. Rap Brown was a restaurateur for a number of years, but came a cropper because he was a hoodlum at heart. Marion Barry was the one person who made a stab at a demanding public office. Alas, he was a ghastly failure. Aside from Coleman Young, you’d be hard put to find someone who did a worse job as a big city mayor between 1967 and 1999.

    As for King’s family, they had all kinds of shortcomings. Coretta King would have done her children a favor if she’d settled in Atlanta or Boston, updated her teaching certificate, and gone back to work as a music teacher. She was very capable at the mechanics of public speaking, but never had much substantive to say worth bothering about. Her vocation wasn’t her husband’s vocation. One of her children is a serious person, alternating between law practice and ministerial positions in Atlanta. The other three have been clown car denizens living off royalties. Martin Luther King III is what happens when you take a man who might make a satisfactory sales rep and insist he be a public figure agitating for ‘change’. All five of them needed to live their own lives and not follow some inane script.

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    • Agree: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @Anon
    Come on, Mayor Lindsay has to at least be in the running.
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  • @OilcanFloyd
    Ralph David Abernathy spilled the beans on King not long before he died, and his decision to do so wasn't popular.

    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1989-10-18/news/8901230358_1_coretta-scott-king-rev-ralph-d-abernathy

    As far as King's plagiarism goes, my understanding is that expelling him was up for debate while he was still in school, but was decided against. The MLK project at Stanford initially tried to gloss over his plagiarisms by claiming something about it being accepted in the black community as legitimate, or something like that.

    Also, the obscure plagiarism was for the "I Have a Dream" speech. I think that was lifted from a member of a civil rights organization in Arkansas. My understanding is that his thesis plagiarism was obvious and extensive.

    “Ralph David Abernathy spilled the beans on King not long before he died, and his decision to do so wasn’t popular.”

    I saw Ralph Abernathy being interviewed on the Today show by Bryant Gumbel when his book came out. Gumbel, looking wan, asked Abernathy, “How could you do it?”

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  • @Alden
    Gunnar Mrydal was hired by the ultra left wing Carnegie Foundation to write a book advocating desegregation . The title was “The American Dilemma”

    In the book he claimed Whites were prejudiced against blacks because White parents told their children blacks were bad. This was the cause of the black problems in America. Blacks were not really a criminal, low intelligence problem causing group. Whites just mistakenly thought they were and taught their children this.

    Myrdal’s (and the ultra lift wing Carnegie Foundation’s) solution was to desegregate the schools. Thus White children would learn how sweet, nice, civilized, intelligent and polite Black children are.

    The dilemma would be solved.

    We all know how school desegregation turned out.

    I read Myrdal s book The American Dilemma. In his discussions of the things wrong with American blacks he stated that even their preachers were corrupt adulterous and lecherous.

    I read the book. I remember those paragraphs about the immorality of the black preachers very well. Myrdal didn’t like the loud preaching and singing of black church services either.
    I read the book.
    Why don’t you read the book? I’m sure you can find it in your city library.

    I know he undertook that study. He still didn’t have the skill set to study the family lives of clergymen and he almost certainly made no effort to do so.

    We all know how school desegregation turned out.

    School desegregation didn’t “turn out badly”. The decay of the school systems was driven by the public interest bar (and their instruments in the judiciary) and the social ideology of the teacher’s colleges (manifested in school administrators). You want orderly schools, you have to sequester the incorrigibles. This they have refused to do and state legislatures do nothing to correct the problem. You want rigorous schools, you have to track, something else that’s anathema to people who want to exploit the schools for social work projects. Neither order maintenance nor academic rigor mandate any particular distribution of students by ascribed traits.

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    • Replies: @OilcanFloyd
    Why do you think tracking and getting rid of incorrigibless is frowned upon?
    , @Alden
    I read the book. You didn’t.

    Myrdal wrote that the black clergy were useless in the fight for civil rights. He wrote that they were lecherous and adulterers

    He also sneered at the singing, noise and happiness of black church services.

    It’s in “The American Dilemma “

    It doesn’t matter if you don’t believe my comments about Mrydal’s book. I read the book.

    You didn’t, yet you presume to tell me Myrdal didn’t write those opinions about black clergy and black church services.

    Go on, keep arguing about a book you have not read.
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  • I stated that I don’t know what King would have done with political power and influence. But I know that his family and associates were largely inept, corrupt, and race hustlers. They were not for justice and equality for all. The track record is there, and it’s obvious.

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    I stated that I don’t know what King would have done with political power and influence. But I know that his family and associates were largely inept, corrupt, and race hustlers. They were not for justice and equality for all. The track record is there, and it’s obvious.

    I think the problem with most prominent people involved in that sort of extraparliamentary politics is that they were ordinary people with an odd skill set useful at that time. Whitney Young had had other irons in the fire and his organization had an institutional mission apart from political agitation (which it largely returned to after 1971). He died in 1971, a generation before most of his cohort. No telling what he might have done with the rest of his life. Roy Wilkins was over 70 in 1971 and had nowhere to go but out to grass. As for the rest of them, their life after 1971 was mostly unedifying. The two exceptions were Bayard Rustin, who landed a job working on the research staff of the AFL - CIO and James Farmer, who landed a teaching job at black college. They placed occasional pieces in newspapers and magazines and had speaking engagements now and again, but they mostly lived a that-was-then-this-is-now quiet life. Rap Brown was a restaurateur for a number of years, but came a cropper because he was a hoodlum at heart. Marion Barry was the one person who made a stab at a demanding public office. Alas, he was a ghastly failure. Aside from Coleman Young, you'd be hard put to find someone who did a worse job as a big city mayor between 1967 and 1999.

    As for King's family, they had all kinds of shortcomings. Coretta King would have done her children a favor if she'd settled in Atlanta or Boston, updated her teaching certificate, and gone back to work as a music teacher. She was very capable at the mechanics of public speaking, but never had much substantive to say worth bothering about. Her vocation wasn't her husband's vocation. One of her children is a serious person, alternating between law practice and ministerial positions in Atlanta. The other three have been clown car denizens living off royalties. Martin Luther King III is what happens when you take a man who might make a satisfactory sales rep and insist he be a public figure agitating for 'change'. All five of them needed to live their own lives and not follow some inane script.

    , @EliteCommInc.
    I guess the proof is in the pudding . . . just to make sure I am on point . . . .


    I hate to be in a position defend Dr.. King and I won't vouch for any of his family members except for.

    http://blog.arkansasalumni.org/campus-to-host-alveda-king-guardian-of-the-king-family-legacy/

    Whatever the discussion about dr. king;s family and their typical debates about what to with what their father built is hardly but a small slice of national agenda that spans the g;lobe. I won't defend the problem his son has had, but there is little evidence that the family as core is corrupt - if any.

    The fact that they aren't all that interested in continuing their father's goals is neither a sign of ineptitude or corruption, despite the pressures and expectations of others.

    I would avoid any vague notions of "race hustling" motifs --- calling attention to issues of color that may still exist doesn't qualify as hustling.
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  • @OilcanFloyd
    I don't know or claim that King was a communist, but it is true that communists in the Soviet Union and in the U.S. intended to use the issue of race to destabilize and discredit the U.S. It does make a difference if King knowingly worked with such people. Did he?

    I think it is very debatable whether or not King, his family, and cronies just wanted justice and equality. It can never be known what King would have done with power or influence, but it is easily seen how his family and associates have used power and influence, and it hasn't been for justice and equality for all. They've largely been corrupt, incompetent, and race hustlers themselves.

    If equality for blacks is the main goal of life, then we are all better off now--in fact, we should be better than better off, as blacks are privileged in many ways. Otherwise, segregated America was a far better place for the vast majority of Americans, for many reasons.

    If there is any evidence to suggest that dr. king would have made a switch from democratic governance to some manner of communist bent, I might agree.

    But the leap you are making is a non sequitur even for a suppositional debate. Merely as hypothetical discussion – maybe, and even that is mighty thing.

    Not even the Black Panthers or black Muslims were advocates for governance away from deomcratic forms.

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  • I don’t know or claim that King was a communist, but it is true that communists in the Soviet Union and in the U.S. intended to use the issue of race to destabilize and discredit the U.S. It does make a difference if King knowingly worked with such people. Did he?

    I think it is very debatable whether or not King, his family, and cronies just wanted justice and equality. It can never be known what King would have done with power or influence, but it is easily seen how his family and associates have used power and influence, and it hasn’t been for justice and equality for all. They’ve largely been corrupt, incompetent, and race hustlers themselves.

    If equality for blacks is the main goal of life, then we are all better off now–in fact, we should be better than better off, as blacks are privileged in many ways. Otherwise, segregated America was a far better place for the vast majority of Americans, for many reasons.

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    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
    If there is any evidence to suggest that dr. king would have made a switch from democratic governance to some manner of communist bent, I might agree.


    But the leap you are making is a non sequitur even for a suppositional debate. Merely as hypothetical discussion - maybe, and even that is mighty thing.

    Not even the Black Panthers or black Muslims were advocates for governance away from deomcratic forms.
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  • @Biff

    In November 1965, while I was serving in Vietnam, MLK participated in one of the first anti-war parades
     
    Thanks for letting us know you were dumb and King was smart.

    Junior was, at most, just clever and sly, as demagogues tend to be. Smart people don’t need to fill their dissertations with “plagiarized passages”.
     

    Boston U. Panel Finds Plagiarism by Dr. King
    The New York Times

    BOSTON, Oct. 10 [1991]— A committee of scholars appointed by Boston University concluded today that the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. plagiarized passages in his dissertation for a doctoral degree at the university 36 years ago.

    “There is no question,” the committee said in a report to the university’s provost, “but that Dr. King plagiarized in the dissertation by appropriating material from sources not explicitly credited in notes, or mistakenly credited, or credited generally and at some distance in the text from a close paraphrase or verbatim quotation.”

    Despite its finding, the committee said that “no thought should be given to the revocation of Dr. King’s doctoral degree,” an action that the panel said would serve no purpose…

    http://www.nytimes.com/1991/10/11/us/boston-u-panel-finds-plagiarism-by-dr-king.html

    Tip your hat to Wally for his contribution to your understanding about the differences between “smart” and sly.

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    • Replies: @Biff
    I tend to like Milton Berle’s description of plagiarism: “He was so funny I dropped my pencil.”

    Other than that you’re just tabloid.
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  • @WorkingClass
    MLK opposed Jim Crow and the Vietnam war. That's good enough for me. Was he a Commie? A horn dog? I don't give a shit.

    I served under Johnson and briefly under Nixon. Both of them mass murderers. But as far as I know neither was accused of plagiarism.

    I think you should rethink your service — much of the Vietnam propaganda is rooted in a lot of false information, motive and general comprehension about that period of the cold war.

    I do care about Dr, King’s integrity. I won’t pull any punches about the academic world’s gamesmanship in competing and the shortcuts they engage in by borrowing from students with giving appropriate attribution. So I think it’s fair to consider context. Take for example, the notices on web sites that invite comments. That said comment once posted becomes the property of the site owner — that seems a might legalistic gambit to avoid giving credit to idea never considered by the owner without ever giving credit to the original author. I remember when I first read that years ago on Miss Coulter’s sight. It strikes me as a means of avoiding accountability. This essentially makes commenters employees of sorts — just a thought.

    The value of attribution is important as a matter of credibility and politeness at least. The trick is always determining when attribution is required. Very little of what we think is derived from something that didn’t sprout from someone else’s exchange.

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  • This is old hat.

    Sure there were communists involved in the issue of civil liberties. Hardly anything earth shattering or revealing as communists, anarchists, and socialists in this country have been associated with all kinds issues regarding the human condition. But any indication that Martin Luther King was a communist or an advocate of communist form of government in the US requires a lot of hauling and a hefty imagination. Pres Kennedy initiated the CIA to investigate the civil rights movement as a some kind of communist plot. In so doing, I have little doubt that they engaged in undermining the credibility of the advance by their usual infiltration, and faux implications. No doubt, they and the FBI had a field day exploiting white fears, misconceptions, and out and out lies about blacks and civil rights. The reality is that what was blatant practice in the south was a part of US “americana” practice is less blatant form across the country. Whether it was testing for the right to vote or red lining in San Franciso or New York City segregation and Chicago policing.

    Civil rights was never about getting anything extra, it was about equitable access and treatment. This article seems to have adopted the tactic of character assassination as accurate polity. Martin Luther king was a pacifist. A strategic pacifist, but a pacifist nonetheless. He interests were for his fellow citizens in the US. And until his Vietnam speech, he was the darling of white US Americans, including politicians, though an irritant to the Kennedy’s and Pres Johnson. juxtaposed against the backdrop of Malcolm Little (Malcom X) and the advocacy of Northern blacks who appreciated Martin Luther King, but that him too accommodating and soft on the white practices anywhere and everywhere. Strategically, Dr/Rev. king did make a mistake acquiescing to the nonsense of college students about Vietnam and it forever side tracked the issues and the import of civil rights — allowing white liberals to hijack the agenda and devastating the goals he and Malcom X along with thousands of others worked so hard to achieve.

    As for relations outside of wedlock, and the FBI. I am not going to defend infidelity. Anyone who takes the FBI revelations about such relations as a unique trait of black men, lives in a fantasy world of agendas and in view deliberate ignorance. Prominent men and women have had relations outside of their marriages since there have been prominent men and women and color is just not a unique identifier. President Roosevelt did more for communism in three years, than Dr./Rev. King could do in a thousand years.

    http://bigfrog104.com/presidential-extramarital-affairs/

    http://listverse.com/2015/02/24/10-scandalous-presidential-affairs-weve-totally-forgotten-about/

    Whether CEO pastor, president, principle, the local hoodlum, entertainer male or female, success, tends to open the door to opportunity for all kinds of vices. Affairs with members of the opposite sex while unfortunate are not unique to anyone’s skin color. I agree that when the person so engaged in a pastor, it’s more disappointing. But ultimately, such behavior is a matter between spouses and God. What I find troubling and most others should as well, is that our federal bureau engaged in a campaign of soliciting suicide — along with unauthorized wire tapping, breaking and entering – it’s damning to know that our government trashes the Constitution at will and does so without consequence.

    The issue of plagiarism has been discussed and it is clear whether there was plagiarism or sloppy attribution or lousy paraphrasing – he failed to lend appropriate attribution to sections of his Dr. Thesis and other presentations. That was largely a matter for his doctoral committee, they for whatever reason, did not find it sufficient to deny his doctorate or have him rewrite those sections. Anyone who has actually written post grad work, understands the — rewriting for appropriate attribution is not unique. They should have called him on his error – no doubt. despite the fact that his life transcended that failure if accurately represented, akin to the Profiles in courage by Pres Kennedy.

    https://www.garynorth.com/public/335.cfm

    I am not a huge fan of Dr./Rev. king because he allowed a significant issue to be sidetracked by white college students, who were more concerned with bra burning than the condition of their fellow citizens using Vietnam as a cover for their own agendas and designs for what civil rights was could for them.

    Whether any of the above article containing nothing new is for cause to withdraw a a day of celebrating Dr, King;s life I guess is yet to be seen. He place as a pacifist and calls for forgiveness are the foyles whites tend to appreciate about Dr. king because it serves as the model for the appropriate black person — whites have used that message of being a forgiving black instead of an angry discontented trouble maker to their advantage. And when Dr. King jumped on the Vietnam complaint — he lost all favor with any previously supporting white power structure. But white liberals love him for allowing the real issues to be lost/sacrificed in favor of their own.
    _______________________

    In reference to Vietnam the argument Dr. King should have was simply this. “I applaud our nation’s zeal in defending self determination and the advantages of democracy. But I fail to comprehend why we are willing to expend so much energy in resources for other nations while we shut out 1/4 of more of our citizens to the benefits of democracy at home. Now you young white kids, should either get back to class and appreciate the advantages bestowed on you or give your slot to a deserving black kid, who, regardless of qualification is barred from the life you now have. And for goodness sake stop whining. ”

    Vietnam was one of the most sincere efforts of intervention on behalf of another — the cold war goals not withstanding. I applaud all ho served in that effort — until 1976, your service was sufficient for the day. Our choice to depart from securing that victory is tragic.

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  • MLK opposed Jim Crow and the Vietnam war. That’s good enough for me. Was he a Commie? A horn dog? I don’t give a shit.

    I served under Johnson and briefly under Nixon. Both of them mass murderers. But as far as I know neither was accused of plagiarism.

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    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
    I think you should rethink your service -- much of the Vietnam propaganda is rooted in a lot of false information, motive and general comprehension about that period of the cold war.

    I do care about Dr, King's integrity. I won't pull any punches about the academic world's gamesmanship in competing and the shortcuts they engage in by borrowing from students with giving appropriate attribution. So I think it's fair to consider context. Take for example, the notices on web sites that invite comments. That said comment once posted becomes the property of the site owner --- that seems a might legalistic gambit to avoid giving credit to idea never considered by the owner without ever giving credit to the original author. I remember when I first read that years ago on Miss Coulter's sight. It strikes me as a means of avoiding accountability. This essentially makes commenters employees of sorts -- just a thought.

    The value of attribution is important as a matter of credibility and politeness at least. The trick is always determining when attribution is required. Very little of what we think is derived from something that didn't sprout from someone else's exchange.
    , @Art Deco
    I served under Johnson and briefly under Nixon. Both of them mass murderers. B

    Your loyalty and esprit de corps are just overwhelming.
    , @David In TN
    Did King have any objection to mass murder when Communists were doing it?
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  • @Greg Bacon

    Under Hoover, the FBI effectively protected the nation from foreign and domestic threats.
     
    When I first read this, I laughed, then realizing it wasn't April Fool's Day, I laughed at the author's white-washing of the sex fiend Hoover protecting America from threats.

    Hoover turned the FBI into a vast Stasi-like operation, illegally gathering info on many people, but mostly politicians and even entertainers, like John Lennon, focusing on recording intimate details of their sex life, which could--and sometimes was--used to blackmail that person into keeping quiet or the FBI will release the sordid details of your sexual romps.

    I imagine Hoover liked wearing a gown by Dior, perfume by Chanel and some bling from Harry Winston while listening with his very close friend Clyde Tolson, while they enjoyed each others sexual favors.

    For a pervert to shame others while holding himself and his mob-like FBI as some kind of model of purity is hypocritical, but what Hoover did to the FBI is lethal and a threat to all.
    He set the FBI on a course to become the vast police state enabler that it is, peeking into all American homes, while letting known gangsters, murderers and various politico creeps walk free, just like Hoover did when he claimed for decades that there was NO such thing as the Mob.

    Have read that Billie Clinton, when appointing a new FBI Director in 1993, quipped that “it would be difficult to find anyone capable of filling J Edgar Hoover’s pumps”.

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  • @Anonymous
    Nothing “new” about the smear job. Lame, lame, lame.

    Except no mention about King’s fake ‘doctorate’.
    He sure aint no ‘Dr.’

    Boston U. Panel Finds Plagiarism by Dr. King

    http://www.nytimes.com/1991/10/11/us/boston-u-panel-finds-plagiarism-by-dr-king.html

    Truth hurts , don’t it?

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  • @Rick Johnson
    In November 1965, while I was serving in Vietnam, MLK participated in one of the first anti-war parades with Vietcong banners being carried. He was a man of no honor: this action, sexual addictions, cribbing the writings of others as his own, plagiarisms, etc. He was a cheat - fundamentally dishonest, and anti-American.

    In November 1965, while I was serving in Vietnam, MLK participated in one of the first anti-war parades

    Thanks for letting us know you were dumb and King was smart.

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    • Replies: @Allan
    Junior was, at most, just clever and sly, as demagogues tend to be. Smart people don't need to fill their dissertations with "plagiarized passages".
     

    Boston U. Panel Finds Plagiarism by Dr. King
    The New York Times

    BOSTON, Oct. 10 [1991]— A committee of scholars appointed by Boston University concluded today that the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. plagiarized passages in his dissertation for a doctoral degree at the university 36 years ago.

    "There is no question," the committee said in a report to the university's provost, "but that Dr. King plagiarized in the dissertation by appropriating material from sources not explicitly credited in notes, or mistakenly credited, or credited generally and at some distance in the text from a close paraphrase or verbatim quotation."

    Despite its finding, the committee said that "no thought should be given to the revocation of Dr. King's doctoral degree," an action that the panel said would serve no purpose...

    http://www.nytimes.com/1991/10/11/us/boston-u-panel-finds-plagiarism-by-dr-king.html
     

    Tip your hat to Wally for his contribution to your understanding about the differences between "smart" and sly.
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  • @Art Deco
    Gunnar Myrdal was an economist living in Sweden. Why would he know a blessed thing about the domestic lives of clergymen (or of anyone else)?

    Re King, people who knew him personally but were outside a certain circle knew nothing of his sexual history. See Richard John Neuhaus' remarks on this point.

    Gunnar Mrydal was hired by the ultra left wing Carnegie Foundation to write a book advocating desegregation . The title was “The American Dilemma”

    In the book he claimed Whites were prejudiced against blacks because White parents told their children blacks were bad. This was the cause of the black problems in America. Blacks were not really a criminal, low intelligence problem causing group. Whites just mistakenly thought they were and taught their children this.

    Myrdal’s (and the ultra lift wing Carnegie Foundation’s) solution was to desegregate the schools. Thus White children would learn how sweet, nice, civilized, intelligent and polite Black children are.

    The dilemma would be solved.

    We all know how school desegregation turned out.

    I read Myrdal s book The American Dilemma. In his discussions of the things wrong with American blacks he stated that even their preachers were corrupt adulterous and lecherous.

    I read the book. I remember those paragraphs about the immorality of the black preachers very well. Myrdal didn’t like the loud preaching and singing of black church services either.
    I read the book.
    Why don’t you read the book? I’m sure you can find it in your city library.

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    • Agree: anarchyst
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    I know he undertook that study. He still didn't have the skill set to study the family lives of clergymen and he almost certainly made no effort to do so.


    We all know how school desegregation turned out.

    School desegregation didn't "turn out badly". The decay of the school systems was driven by the public interest bar (and their instruments in the judiciary) and the social ideology of the teacher's colleges (manifested in school administrators). You want orderly schools, you have to sequester the incorrigibles. This they have refused to do and state legislatures do nothing to correct the problem. You want rigorous schools, you have to track, something else that's anathema to people who want to exploit the schools for social work projects. Neither order maintenance nor academic rigor mandate any particular distribution of students by ascribed traits.

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  • @anonymous
    King died at a very convenient time. He was starting to branch out into other areas, notably Vietnam. Now he can be molded into the shape the government prefers him to be and to influence the black population. He admired Gandhi, advocated non-violence, work within the system, don't riot and burn down the neighborhood, etc. The communist linkage and the pervy sex stuff as well as the plagiarism and misuse of funds have to all be scrubbed out. Much of this is not known because people don't want to know. Right now he's a packaged product that the government and others down the line, such as the educational system, use to guide the black population as well as others.

    He’s more of an icon for whites now than blacks.

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  • @Alden
    Even Gunnar Myrdal’s book mentioned that the black American clergy were a debauched crew. It was one of the many discriminations segregationist Whites forced blacks to endure.

    Gunnar Myrdal was an economist living in Sweden. Why would he know a blessed thing about the domestic lives of clergymen (or of anyone else)?

    Re King, people who knew him personally but were outside a certain circle knew nothing of his sexual history. See Richard John Neuhaus’ remarks on this point.

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    • Replies: @Alden
    Gunnar Mrydal was hired by the ultra left wing Carnegie Foundation to write a book advocating desegregation . The title was “The American Dilemma”

    In the book he claimed Whites were prejudiced against blacks because White parents told their children blacks were bad. This was the cause of the black problems in America. Blacks were not really a criminal, low intelligence problem causing group. Whites just mistakenly thought they were and taught their children this.

    Myrdal’s (and the ultra lift wing Carnegie Foundation’s) solution was to desegregate the schools. Thus White children would learn how sweet, nice, civilized, intelligent and polite Black children are.

    The dilemma would be solved.

    We all know how school desegregation turned out.

    I read Myrdal s book The American Dilemma. In his discussions of the things wrong with American blacks he stated that even their preachers were corrupt adulterous and lecherous.

    I read the book. I remember those paragraphs about the immorality of the black preachers very well. Myrdal didn’t like the loud preaching and singing of black church services either.
    I read the book.
    Why don’t you read the book? I’m sure you can find it in your city library.

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  • @Alden
    Wasn’t MLK an AME clergy critter at the time?

    No, Convention Baptist. He was persona non grata in the councils of the National Baptist Convention after 1960 and did not participate in its proceedings. He was the titular associate at his father’s church in Atlanta from 1959 until his death.

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  • @Rick Johnson
    In November 1965, while I was serving in Vietnam, MLK participated in one of the first anti-war parades with Vietcong banners being carried. He was a man of no honor: this action, sexual addictions, cribbing the writings of others as his own, plagiarisms, etc. He was a cheat - fundamentally dishonest, and anti-American.

    Are you saying the Vietnam war was a positive thing for the US Rick?

    By any chance were you privileged enough to meet and serve with the great John McCain?

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  • @OilcanFloyd
    Of course it could have happened. Not reporting the story later on when King was famous has nothing to do with excusing the plagiarism when it happened. If the plagiarism were excused at the time, it wouldn't have been a big issue outside of the school, but it would have been something to hush up, especially at a seminary.

    I grew up on Atlanta, so I am familiar with King, his family, and his cronies, and none live up to the fairy tales. If King were to be judged by their behavior, in and out of office, he'd be on the level of the Ray Nagins of the world.

    Of course it could have happened.

    I think it would have been an unusual dissertation supervisor and academic dean that would have (in 1953) knowingly allowed a graduate student to get away with cribbing on that scale.

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  • @Art Deco
    It may read like a fabrication, but it's attested to by parties who were there (Ralph David Abernathy) and parties who admire King generally (David Garrow). There are also surviving recordings and transcripts which members of Congress have seen. See Daniel Patrick Moynihan's reaction to Jesse Helms' references to the FBI data in 1983. Moynihan was striking attitudes because Helms had brought the subject up, not because it was untrue. Coretta King was lobbying Congress around that time. She knew, because FBI agents had rather cruelly called her up on the phone and played excerpts of the tapes.

    One scene was particularly lurid (it was in Garrow's biography or Taylor Branch's). King and entourage traveled to Norway in 1964 to pick up his Nobel. Ensconced in their hotel rooms, they hired a mess of hookers. The hotel staff remarked on the disturbance in the hallways where the King party was staying and got hold of the local police who were set and ready to place parties under arrest when Bayard Rustin (who'd been out cruising) shows up and manages to talk the cops out of it.

    smdh

    Even Gunnar Myrdal’s book mentioned that the black American clergy were a debauched crew. It was one of the many discriminations segregationist Whites forced blacks to endure.

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Gunnar Myrdal was an economist living in Sweden. Why would he know a blessed thing about the domestic lives of clergymen (or of anyone else)?

    Re King, people who knew him personally but were outside a certain circle knew nothing of his sexual history. See Richard John Neuhaus' remarks on this point.
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  • The biggest threat to King’s future as an American icon, is his opposition to homosexuality. At least in his writing. He once told a troubled young man to fight his homosexual urges by seeing a psychiatrist. Any public figure who nowadays told a homosexual to see a psychiatrist to get rid of what King called a “habit” would be run out of town on a rail.

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  • In November 1965, while I was serving in Vietnam, MLK participated in one of the first anti-war parades with Vietcong banners being carried. He was a man of no honor: this action, sexual addictions, cribbing the writings of others as his own, plagiarisms, etc. He was a cheat – fundamentally dishonest, and anti-American.

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    • Replies: @Ben_C
    Are you saying the Vietnam war was a positive thing for the US Rick?

    By any chance were you privileged enough to meet and serve with the great John McCain?

    , @Biff

    In November 1965, while I was serving in Vietnam, MLK participated in one of the first anti-war parades
     
    Thanks for letting us know you were dumb and King was smart.
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  • @Anonymous
    King ultimately proved inconvenient for the CIA's management of both anti-war and civil rights movements. Towards the end, he was (put up to) openly pointing the finger at the US Military and its corporations for destroying lives globally. This was a simple fact that most people knew anyway, the problem was timing and position with risk. Soldiers in Vietnam were shooting their own officers and effective armed resistance was growing in the cities.

    So the US Government decided to kill King and build him up into something he never was. The riots of the 60s that followed were planned - favorable to further discrediting and dismantling organized threats. Infiltration, co-option, disarmament, financial support, illicit drugs and criminal justice contained the ghettos.

    Today we have a holiday and a propaganda system more effective than the dark ages of the 1960s. The King remembrance is now a teamsport with two familiar sides who debate nonsense and the official police state's meaningless platitudes of civil right victories.

    The legacy of the 60s is the slow decline of empire and the longevity of the worst tools the status quo ever unleashed on the American pysche - reprehensible apologists like Ralph Nader to make sure the Government won't have to actually shoot any potential threats when they emerge, but to disable them with propaganda at an earlier time.

    The assassination of MLK was a big cause of riots and unrest of the late 60s and was probably a big reason the affirmative action act of 1968 was passed.

    If the CIA/FBI Vatican Jewish Capitalist Communist/Illuminati conspiracy did kill him, it was to cause more race problems more riots and stampede congress into passing the affirmative action act of 1968, the beginning of the end for Whites.

    I favor the communists as the assassins

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  • @anonymous
    King died at a very convenient time. He was starting to branch out into other areas, notably Vietnam. Now he can be molded into the shape the government prefers him to be and to influence the black population. He admired Gandhi, advocated non-violence, work within the system, don't riot and burn down the neighborhood, etc. The communist linkage and the pervy sex stuff as well as the plagiarism and misuse of funds have to all be scrubbed out. Much of this is not known because people don't want to know. Right now he's a packaged product that the government and others down the line, such as the educational system, use to guide the black population as well as others.

    It’s my opinion that the Russians arranged MLK ‘s assassin . It was partly for destabilization, but mostly to create
    a saint and martyr and make YT look bad.

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  • @Art Deco
    Actually he was big enough an enemy for the FBI to expose right away should those sex acts were true.

    King and allies tried to take over the National Baptist Convention in 1960. They arrive at the annual conference. Their organizing efforts were a debacle leading to a near riot in which one person was killed. The existing establishment in the denomination remained in place. All happened in public view but somehow the press missed it. I'd accuse the New York Times of covering the embarrassment up. However, the media weren't relentless press agents in those days and there were elements of the media who'd have been congenial about reporting it. (Recall that Jesse Helms was a TV news director and James Jackson Kilpatrick was a newspaper reporter). It was a slice of life the media just never got in the habit of covering.

    Wasn’t MLK an AME clergy critter at the time?

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    No, Convention Baptist. He was persona non grata in the councils of the National Baptist Convention after 1960 and did not participate in its proceedings. He was the titular associate at his father's church in Atlanta from 1959 until his death.
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  • @Art Deco
    I don’t remember the source since it has been at least a decade since I read the piece, but my understanding is that King’s thesis plagiarism was discovered at the time and covered up.

    Not credible. In 1953 he was a 24 year old theology student, not a national icon. His father was a big pinecone among black Baptist clergy in Atlanta, but why would that cut any ice at a nominally Methodist university in Boston?

    Of course it could have happened. Not reporting the story later on when King was famous has nothing to do with excusing the plagiarism when it happened. If the plagiarism were excused at the time, it wouldn’t have been a big issue outside of the school, but it would have been something to hush up, especially at a seminary.

    I grew up on Atlanta, so I am familiar with King, his family, and his cronies, and none live up to the fairy tales. If King were to be judged by their behavior, in and out of office, he’d be on the level of the Ray Nagins of the world.

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Of course it could have happened.

    I think it would have been an unusual dissertation supervisor and academic dean that would have (in 1953) knowingly allowed a graduate student to get away with cribbing on that scale.
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  • @Ben_C
    "Communist links"?

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/images/wysiwyg_images/nixon_mao.png

    That's completely unacceptable. Why wasn't I informed of this earlier?

    Equivocation. See the linked hands.

    Notice also from the position of Mao’s index finger that Nixon is holding a wet fish. This means that Mao was more enthusiastc for Democrats, esp. the faction of radicals then rising among them. It’s probable also that there was some Mao money which found its way into the D’s campaign funds.

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  • @Art Deco
    If my experience is representative, King aficionadoes get very hot under the collar when you bring up his personal shortcomings. The thing is, he was a clergyman, so personal shortcomings are not ancillary matters. And his conduct was odd for a man born in 1929 (much less a clergyman born in 1929). Another mess of the era was James Hashcookies Pike, the Episcopal Bishop of California. One person I've sent into a rage by discussing King as he was was an Episcopal minister. I think I could bring up Pike as Pike without sending her into orbit.

    The thing about King was that he had a skill set and a message which was good for one discrete moment in time. Not much indication from his acts and omissions during the period running from 1965 to 1968 that he'd have been able to make a salutary contribution after that date.

    That King was assassinated in his prime is the biggest factor in the sainthood narrative. Jesse Jackson tried to faithfully carry on his legacy through business shakedowns and grievance mongering. If King had lived, I doubt public opinion of him among Conservatism, Inc. types would have been any higher than their current opinion of Jackson.

    There is a quote from Jackie Kennedy after JFK was assassinated that she upset he was killed by a communist. She would have preferred a Southern redneck upset about the civil rights movement because it would have improved his legacy. You are right about it working only in that moment, had he been born twenty years earlier or later than he was, he never would have achieved national prominence.

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  • @Anonymous
    King ultimately proved inconvenient for the CIA's management of both anti-war and civil rights movements. Towards the end, he was (put up to) openly pointing the finger at the US Military and its corporations for destroying lives globally. This was a simple fact that most people knew anyway, the problem was timing and position with risk. Soldiers in Vietnam were shooting their own officers and effective armed resistance was growing in the cities.

    So the US Government decided to kill King and build him up into something he never was. The riots of the 60s that followed were planned - favorable to further discrediting and dismantling organized threats. Infiltration, co-option, disarmament, financial support, illicit drugs and criminal justice contained the ghettos.

    Today we have a holiday and a propaganda system more effective than the dark ages of the 1960s. The King remembrance is now a teamsport with two familiar sides who debate nonsense and the official police state's meaningless platitudes of civil right victories.

    The legacy of the 60s is the slow decline of empire and the longevity of the worst tools the status quo ever unleashed on the American pysche - reprehensible apologists like Ralph Nader to make sure the Government won't have to actually shoot any potential threats when they emerge, but to disable them with propaganda at an earlier time.

    No one benefits from your fantasies.

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  • @OilcanFloyd
    I don't remember the source since it has been at least a decade since I read the piece, but my understanding is that King's thesis plagiarism was discovered at the time and covered up. I understand that you can't believe everything written about King, but what I read made sense, and goes along with Kong's history of plagiarism, and the willingness of others to cover for him.

    I don’t remember the source since it has been at least a decade since I read the piece, but my understanding is that King’s thesis plagiarism was discovered at the time and covered up.

    Not credible. In 1953 he was a 24 year old theology student, not a national icon. His father was a big pinecone among black Baptist clergy in Atlanta, but why would that cut any ice at a nominally Methodist university in Boston?

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    • Replies: @OilcanFloyd
    Of course it could have happened. Not reporting the story later on when King was famous has nothing to do with excusing the plagiarism when it happened. If the plagiarism were excused at the time, it wouldn't have been a big issue outside of the school, but it would have been something to hush up, especially at a seminary.

    I grew up on Atlanta, so I am familiar with King, his family, and his cronies, and none live up to the fairy tales. If King were to be judged by their behavior, in and out of office, he'd be on the level of the Ray Nagins of the world.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • King’s association with Levison was covered in detail as far back as 1980 in David Garrow’s “The FBI and Martin Luther King, Jr.” It adds up to something far less than the breathless FBI reports assume.

    King was not a communist, or even a Marxist. He was a radical voice for racial integration, the uplift of the poor, and against state-sponsored violence – ideas long associated by the FBI as “communist”, but such memoranda reads today as paranoid to an extreme. King’s leadership skills marked him as an enemy of the state, and when his reputation could not be shattered through salacious gossip, other means were activated to neutralize him.

    That the FBI’s gossip and weak associative links continue to be trotted out a half century or more after the fact suggests that a strong leader who sides with the people continues to be a source of fear and dismay even long after his passing. The holiday is an official effort to neutralize the radical effect of King’s beliefs – which are based on Christian principles.

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  • Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    King ultimately proved inconvenient for the CIA’s management of both anti-war and civil rights movements. Towards the end, he was (put up to) openly pointing the finger at the US Military and its corporations for destroying lives globally. This was a simple fact that most people knew anyway, the problem was timing and position with risk. Soldiers in Vietnam were shooting their own officers and effective armed resistance was growing in the cities.

    So the US Government decided to kill King and build him up into something he never was. The riots of the 60s that followed were planned – favorable to further discrediting and dismantling organized threats. Infiltration, co-option, disarmament, financial support, illicit drugs and criminal justice contained the ghettos.

    Today we have a holiday and a propaganda system more effective than the dark ages of the 1960s. The King remembrance is now a teamsport with two familiar sides who debate nonsense and the official police state’s meaningless platitudes of civil right victories.

    The legacy of the 60s is the slow decline of empire and the longevity of the worst tools the status quo ever unleashed on the American pysche – reprehensible apologists like Ralph Nader to make sure the Government won’t have to actually shoot any potential threats when they emerge, but to disable them with propaganda at an earlier time.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    No one benefits from your fantasies.
    , @Alden
    The assassination of MLK was a big cause of riots and unrest of the late 60s and was probably a big reason the affirmative action act of 1968 was passed.

    If the CIA/FBI Vatican Jewish Capitalist Communist/Illuminati conspiracy did kill him, it was to cause more race problems more riots and stampede congress into passing the affirmative action act of 1968, the beginning of the end for Whites.

    I favor the communists as the assassins
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  • @Art Deco
    My understanding is that his thesis plagiarism was obvious and extensive.

    If you have the texts in front of you and you have some background it is. It's a reasonable wager the thesis was in a repository in the BU libraries, perhaps in the archives or in the basement uncatalogued. John Boozer's thesis would have been there as well. All this was discovered around 1989. What seems reckless is that he plagiarized text from work by Paul Tillich, who was still alive, still publishing, and as well known as any protestant theologian of the era. Not sure how that got past his dissertation supervisor.

    I don’t remember the source since it has been at least a decade since I read the piece, but my understanding is that King’s thesis plagiarism was discovered at the time and covered up. I understand that you can’t believe everything written about King, but what I read made sense, and goes along with Kong’s history of plagiarism, and the willingness of others to cover for him.

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    I don’t remember the source since it has been at least a decade since I read the piece, but my understanding is that King’s thesis plagiarism was discovered at the time and covered up.

    Not credible. In 1953 he was a 24 year old theology student, not a national icon. His father was a big pinecone among black Baptist clergy in Atlanta, but why would that cut any ice at a nominally Methodist university in Boston?
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  • “Communist links”?

    That’s completely unacceptable. Why wasn’t I informed of this earlier?

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    • Replies: @Allan
    Equivocation. See the linked hands.

    Notice also from the position of Mao's index finger that Nixon is holding a wet fish. This means that Mao was more enthusiastc for Democrats, esp. the faction of radicals then rising among them. It's probable also that there was some Mao money which found its way into the D's campaign funds.

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  • @OilcanFloyd
    Ralph David Abernathy spilled the beans on King not long before he died, and his decision to do so wasn't popular.

    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1989-10-18/news/8901230358_1_coretta-scott-king-rev-ralph-d-abernathy

    As far as King's plagiarism goes, my understanding is that expelling him was up for debate while he was still in school, but was decided against. The MLK project at Stanford initially tried to gloss over his plagiarisms by claiming something about it being accepted in the black community as legitimate, or something like that.

    Also, the obscure plagiarism was for the "I Have a Dream" speech. I think that was lifted from a member of a civil rights organization in Arkansas. My understanding is that his thesis plagiarism was obvious and extensive.

    My understanding is that his thesis plagiarism was obvious and extensive.

    If you have the texts in front of you and you have some background it is. It’s a reasonable wager the thesis was in a repository in the BU libraries, perhaps in the archives or in the basement uncatalogued. John Boozer’s thesis would have been there as well. All this was discovered around 1989. What seems reckless is that he plagiarized text from work by Paul Tillich, who was still alive, still publishing, and as well known as any protestant theologian of the era. Not sure how that got past his dissertation supervisor.

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    • Replies: @OilcanFloyd
    I don't remember the source since it has been at least a decade since I read the piece, but my understanding is that King's thesis plagiarism was discovered at the time and covered up. I understand that you can't believe everything written about King, but what I read made sense, and goes along with Kong's history of plagiarism, and the willingness of others to cover for him.
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  • @Lin
    I agree.

    Much of the 'dirt' thrown at MLK read like fabrication. Actually he was big enough an enemy for the FBI to expose right away should those sex acts were true. A disgraced enemy might be better than a martyred one.

    Actually he was big enough an enemy for the FBI to expose right away should those sex acts were true.

    King and allies tried to take over the National Baptist Convention in 1960. They arrive at the annual conference. Their organizing efforts were a debacle leading to a near riot in which one person was killed. The existing establishment in the denomination remained in place. All happened in public view but somehow the press missed it. I’d accuse the New York Times of covering the embarrassment up. However, the media weren’t relentless press agents in those days and there were elements of the media who’d have been congenial about reporting it. (Recall that Jesse Helms was a TV news director and James Jackson Kilpatrick was a newspaper reporter). It was a slice of life the media just never got in the habit of covering.

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    • Replies: @Alden
    Wasn’t MLK an AME clergy critter at the time?
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  • @Lin
    I agree.

    Much of the 'dirt' thrown at MLK read like fabrication. Actually he was big enough an enemy for the FBI to expose right away should those sex acts were true. A disgraced enemy might be better than a martyred one.

    It may read like a fabrication, but it’s attested to by parties who were there (Ralph David Abernathy) and parties who admire King generally (David Garrow). There are also surviving recordings and transcripts which members of Congress have seen. See Daniel Patrick Moynihan’s reaction to Jesse Helms’ references to the FBI data in 1983. Moynihan was striking attitudes because Helms had brought the subject up, not because it was untrue. Coretta King was lobbying Congress around that time. She knew, because FBI agents had rather cruelly called her up on the phone and played excerpts of the tapes.

    One scene was particularly lurid (it was in Garrow’s biography or Taylor Branch’s). King and entourage traveled to Norway in 1964 to pick up his Nobel. Ensconced in their hotel rooms, they hired a mess of hookers. The hotel staff remarked on the disturbance in the hallways where the King party was staying and got hold of the local police who were set and ready to place parties under arrest when Bayard Rustin (who’d been out cruising) shows up and manages to talk the cops out of it.

    smdh

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    • Replies: @Alden
    Even Gunnar Myrdal’s book mentioned that the black American clergy were a debauched crew. It was one of the many discriminations segregationist Whites forced blacks to endure.
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  • @OilcanFloyd
    Ralph David Abernathy spilled the beans on King not long before he died, and his decision to do so wasn't popular.

    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1989-10-18/news/8901230358_1_coretta-scott-king-rev-ralph-d-abernathy

    As far as King's plagiarism goes, my understanding is that expelling him was up for debate while he was still in school, but was decided against. The MLK project at Stanford initially tried to gloss over his plagiarisms by claiming something about it being accepted in the black community as legitimate, or something like that.

    Also, the obscure plagiarism was for the "I Have a Dream" speech. I think that was lifted from a member of a civil rights organization in Arkansas. My understanding is that his thesis plagiarism was obvious and extensive.

    The Wall Street Journal had an article detailing his plagiarism on his doctorate in the early 90s. Elites just ignore it now like they do for King’s infidelity.

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  • MLK Jr. is already installed in the Pantheon, so anything bad said about him by the FBI must be untrue. Trump is a mere mortal, and an unlikeable, deplorable one at that, so all the FBI says about him is the truth.

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  • @Lin
    I agree.

    Much of the 'dirt' thrown at MLK read like fabrication. Actually he was big enough an enemy for the FBI to expose right away should those sex acts were true. A disgraced enemy might be better than a martyred one.

    Ralph David Abernathy spilled the beans on King not long before he died, and his decision to do so wasn’t popular.

    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1989-10-18/news/8901230358_1_coretta-scott-king-rev-ralph-d-abernathy

    As far as King’s plagiarism goes, my understanding is that expelling him was up for debate while he was still in school, but was decided against. The MLK project at Stanford initially tried to gloss over his plagiarisms by claiming something about it being accepted in the black community as legitimate, or something like that.

    Also, the obscure plagiarism was for the “I Have a Dream” speech. I think that was lifted from a member of a civil rights organization in Arkansas. My understanding is that his thesis plagiarism was obvious and extensive.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Barnard
    The Wall Street Journal had an article detailing his plagiarism on his doctorate in the early 90s. Elites just ignore it now like they do for King's infidelity.
    , @Art Deco
    My understanding is that his thesis plagiarism was obvious and extensive.

    If you have the texts in front of you and you have some background it is. It's a reasonable wager the thesis was in a repository in the BU libraries, perhaps in the archives or in the basement uncatalogued. John Boozer's thesis would have been there as well. All this was discovered around 1989. What seems reckless is that he plagiarized text from work by Paul Tillich, who was still alive, still publishing, and as well known as any protestant theologian of the era. Not sure how that got past his dissertation supervisor.
    , @David In TN
    "Ralph David Abernathy spilled the beans on King not long before he died, and his decision to do so wasn't popular."

    I saw Ralph Abernathy being interviewed on the Today show by Bryant Gumbel when his book came out. Gumbel, looking wan, asked Abernathy, "How could you do it?"
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  • Now that Jabba is dead, it should be safe to thaw him out from the carbonite now.

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  • anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Lin
    Did someone say Gandhi? Haha...
    Gandhi stopped having sex with his wife, said to be atoning his quilt of laying with his wife when his father was dying. Later, he was said to have a gay affair with a germain jewish body builder:
    https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2011/04/11/i-was-gandhis-boyfriend
    ...and shared the same bed with naked young girls, including his niece, in attempt to test his resistence to sexual temptation..
    http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/features/thrill-of-the-chaste-the-truth-about-gandhis-sex-life-1937411.html

    Did someone say Gandhi? Haha

    Yes, but how many people actually know all that? The public image has been scrubbed and sanitized for public purposes. Gandhi didn’t seem to like blacks very much either but that’s also been blotted out. What we have both with him and King are products that have been cleaned up and promoted to influence the thinking of the public. It’s image, not reality that’s being sold.

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  • @anonymous
    King died at a very convenient time. He was starting to branch out into other areas, notably Vietnam. Now he can be molded into the shape the government prefers him to be and to influence the black population. He admired Gandhi, advocated non-violence, work within the system, don't riot and burn down the neighborhood, etc. The communist linkage and the pervy sex stuff as well as the plagiarism and misuse of funds have to all be scrubbed out. Much of this is not known because people don't want to know. Right now he's a packaged product that the government and others down the line, such as the educational system, use to guide the black population as well as others.

    I agree.

    Much of the ‘dirt’ thrown at MLK read like fabrication. Actually he was big enough an enemy for the FBI to expose right away should those sex acts were true. A disgraced enemy might be better than a martyred one.

    Read More
    • Replies: @OilcanFloyd
    Ralph David Abernathy spilled the beans on King not long before he died, and his decision to do so wasn't popular.

    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1989-10-18/news/8901230358_1_coretta-scott-king-rev-ralph-d-abernathy

    As far as King's plagiarism goes, my understanding is that expelling him was up for debate while he was still in school, but was decided against. The MLK project at Stanford initially tried to gloss over his plagiarisms by claiming something about it being accepted in the black community as legitimate, or something like that.

    Also, the obscure plagiarism was for the "I Have a Dream" speech. I think that was lifted from a member of a civil rights organization in Arkansas. My understanding is that his thesis plagiarism was obvious and extensive.
    , @Art Deco
    It may read like a fabrication, but it's attested to by parties who were there (Ralph David Abernathy) and parties who admire King generally (David Garrow). There are also surviving recordings and transcripts which members of Congress have seen. See Daniel Patrick Moynihan's reaction to Jesse Helms' references to the FBI data in 1983. Moynihan was striking attitudes because Helms had brought the subject up, not because it was untrue. Coretta King was lobbying Congress around that time. She knew, because FBI agents had rather cruelly called her up on the phone and played excerpts of the tapes.

    One scene was particularly lurid (it was in Garrow's biography or Taylor Branch's). King and entourage traveled to Norway in 1964 to pick up his Nobel. Ensconced in their hotel rooms, they hired a mess of hookers. The hotel staff remarked on the disturbance in the hallways where the King party was staying and got hold of the local police who were set and ready to place parties under arrest when Bayard Rustin (who'd been out cruising) shows up and manages to talk the cops out of it.

    smdh
    , @Art Deco
    Actually he was big enough an enemy for the FBI to expose right away should those sex acts were true.

    King and allies tried to take over the National Baptist Convention in 1960. They arrive at the annual conference. Their organizing efforts were a debacle leading to a near riot in which one person was killed. The existing establishment in the denomination remained in place. All happened in public view but somehow the press missed it. I'd accuse the New York Times of covering the embarrassment up. However, the media weren't relentless press agents in those days and there were elements of the media who'd have been congenial about reporting it. (Recall that Jesse Helms was a TV news director and James Jackson Kilpatrick was a newspaper reporter). It was a slice of life the media just never got in the habit of covering.
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  • Intelligent people bristle when even our orchestras treat ‘ML King Day’ as a major occasion. We don’t even celebrate Beethoven’s birthday! What has ML King to do with our music? Nothing at all.

    True. Look, for instance, this: https://www.thenewamerican.com/reviews/opinion/item/17348-the-genocide-of-dead-white-males

    Compare the humanists’ hunger for learning with the resentment of a Columbia University undergraduate, who had been required by the school’s core curriculum to study Mozart. She happens to be black, but her views are widely shared, to borrow a phrase, “across gender, sexuality, race and class.”

    “Why did I have to listen in music humanities to this Mozart?” she groused in a discussion of the curriculum reported by David Denby in “Great Books,” his 1997 account of re-enrolling in Columbia’s core curriculum. “My problem with the core is that it upholds the premises of white supremacy and racism. It’s a racist core. Who is this Mozart, this Haydn, these superior white men? There are no women, no people of color.”

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  • @anonymous
    King died at a very convenient time. He was starting to branch out into other areas, notably Vietnam. Now he can be molded into the shape the government prefers him to be and to influence the black population. He admired Gandhi, advocated non-violence, work within the system, don't riot and burn down the neighborhood, etc. The communist linkage and the pervy sex stuff as well as the plagiarism and misuse of funds have to all be scrubbed out. Much of this is not known because people don't want to know. Right now he's a packaged product that the government and others down the line, such as the educational system, use to guide the black population as well as others.

    Did someone say Gandhi? Haha…
    Gandhi stopped having sex with his wife, said to be atoning his quilt of laying with his wife when his father was dying. Later, he was said to have a gay affair with a germain jewish body builder:

    https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2011/04/11/i-was-gandhis-boyfriend

    …and shared the same bed with naked young girls, including his niece, in attempt to test his resistence to sexual temptation..

    http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/features/thrill-of-the-chaste-the-truth-about-gandhis-sex-life-1937411.html

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    • Replies: @anonymous

    Did someone say Gandhi? Haha
     
    Yes, but how many people actually know all that? The public image has been scrubbed and sanitized for public purposes. Gandhi didn't seem to like blacks very much either but that's also been blotted out. What we have both with him and King are products that have been cleaned up and promoted to influence the thinking of the public. It's image, not reality that's being sold.
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  • @anarchyst
    Let's not forget that Michael King plagiarized his "doctoral thesis" but was "given a pass"...

    I don’t think his plagiarism was discovered until more than a generation after he’d been awarded his degree. (It amounted to about 1/3 of the text). One of the people he copied from was quite obscure and the work he copied from was an unpublished typescript.

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  • Actually, Russian links

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  • The celebrations will commence, fake news will flourish, King’s warped legacy will percolate, violent crime will continue to plague Chicago, Baltimore, Ferguson and other urban areas, and guilt-ridden, middle-class whites will take in orchestral concerts in order to feel good—until the truth sets us free

    King qua King doesn’t have anything to do with urban disorder. The problem there has been that politicians in general have had no creative responses to urban disorder, liberal politicians want to give people things and balk at holding them accountable, and black politicians (and bourgeois blacks commonly) have a very peculiar set of priorities and react to social problems by running interference for incorrigibles and hoodlums who make everyone else’s life a trial.

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  • @Crawfurdmuir
    I read the FBI analysis shortly after it was released to the public.

    It seems at least as "credible" as the allegations of Judge Roy Moore's supposed dalliances with teenage girls, or of the Trump campaign's supposed collusion with the Russians.

    Interesting, isn't it, how differently the press treats these claims?

    If my experience is representative, King aficionadoes get very hot under the collar when you bring up his personal shortcomings. The thing is, he was a clergyman, so personal shortcomings are not ancillary matters. And his conduct was odd for a man born in 1929 (much less a clergyman born in 1929). Another mess of the era was James Hashcookies Pike, the Episcopal Bishop of California. One person I’ve sent into a rage by discussing King as he was was an Episcopal minister. I think I could bring up Pike as Pike without sending her into orbit.

    The thing about King was that he had a skill set and a message which was good for one discrete moment in time. Not much indication from his acts and omissions during the period running from 1965 to 1968 that he’d have been able to make a salutary contribution after that date.

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    • Replies: @Barnard
    That King was assassinated in his prime is the biggest factor in the sainthood narrative. Jesse Jackson tried to faithfully carry on his legacy through business shakedowns and grievance mongering. If King had lived, I doubt public opinion of him among Conservatism, Inc. types would have been any higher than their current opinion of Jackson.

    There is a quote from Jackie Kennedy after JFK was assassinated that she upset he was killed by a communist. She would have preferred a Southern redneck upset about the civil rights movement because it would have improved his legacy. You are right about it working only in that moment, had he been born twenty years earlier or later than he was, he never would have achieved national prominence.
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  • Let’s not forget that Michael King plagiarized his “doctoral thesis” but was “given a pass”…

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    I don't think his plagiarism was discovered until more than a generation after he'd been awarded his degree. (It amounted to about 1/3 of the text). One of the people he copied from was quite obscure and the work he copied from was an unpublished typescript.
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  • Bayard Rustin departed the Communist Party I think around 1940. He was, ca. 1953, associated with Quaker outfits and that (and a satisfactory reputation as an organizer) gave him entree into King’s circle.

    When the old Socialist Party dissolved into three successor organizations (one led by Max Schachtman, one led by Michael Harrington, and one led by David McReynolds), he joined the Schachtmanite faction (i.e. the one most given to patriotism and most antagonistic to the Soviet Union). From 1964 until his retirement, he was employed on the research staff of the AFL – CIO. He never had any influence after about 1965, in large measure because he had no time for racial preference schemes.

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  • anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    King died at a very convenient time. He was starting to branch out into other areas, notably Vietnam. Now he can be molded into the shape the government prefers him to be and to influence the black population. He admired Gandhi, advocated non-violence, work within the system, don’t riot and burn down the neighborhood, etc. The communist linkage and the pervy sex stuff as well as the plagiarism and misuse of funds have to all be scrubbed out. Much of this is not known because people don’t want to know. Right now he’s a packaged product that the government and others down the line, such as the educational system, use to guide the black population as well as others.

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    • Replies: @Lin
    Did someone say Gandhi? Haha...
    Gandhi stopped having sex with his wife, said to be atoning his quilt of laying with his wife when his father was dying. Later, he was said to have a gay affair with a germain jewish body builder:
    https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2011/04/11/i-was-gandhis-boyfriend
    ...and shared the same bed with naked young girls, including his niece, in attempt to test his resistence to sexual temptation..
    http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/features/thrill-of-the-chaste-the-truth-about-gandhis-sex-life-1937411.html
    , @Lin
    I agree.

    Much of the 'dirt' thrown at MLK read like fabrication. Actually he was big enough an enemy for the FBI to expose right away should those sex acts were true. A disgraced enemy might be better than a martyred one.
    , @Alden
    It’s my opinion that the Russians arranged MLK ‘s assassin . It was partly for destabilization, but mostly to create
    a saint and martyr and make YT look bad.
    , @AndrewR
    He's more of an icon for whites now than blacks.
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  • Nothing “new” about the smear job. Lame, lame, lame.

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    • Replies: @Wally
    Except no mention about King's fake 'doctorate'.
    He sure aint no 'Dr.'

    Boston U. Panel Finds Plagiarism by Dr. King
    http://www.nytimes.com/1991/10/11/us/boston-u-panel-finds-plagiarism-by-dr-king.html

    Truth hurts , don't it?
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  • Under Hoover, the FBI effectively protected the nation from foreign and domestic threats.

    When I first read this, I laughed, then realizing it wasn’t April Fool’s Day, I laughed at the author’s white-washing of the sex fiend Hoover protecting America from threats.

    Hoover turned the FBI into a vast Stasi-like operation, illegally gathering info on many people, but mostly politicians and even entertainers, like John Lennon, focusing on recording intimate details of their sex life, which could–and sometimes was–used to blackmail that person into keeping quiet or the FBI will release the sordid details of your sexual romps.

    I imagine Hoover liked wearing a gown by Dior, perfume by Chanel and some bling from Harry Winston while listening with his very close friend Clyde Tolson, while they enjoyed each others sexual favors.

    For a pervert to shame others while holding himself and his mob-like FBI as some kind of model of purity is hypocritical, but what Hoover did to the FBI is lethal and a threat to all.
    He set the FBI on a course to become the vast police state enabler that it is, peeking into all American homes, while letting known gangsters, murderers and various politico creeps walk free, just like Hoover did when he claimed for decades that there was NO such thing as the Mob.

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    • Replies: @nsa
    Have read that Billie Clinton, when appointing a new FBI Director in 1993, quipped that "it would be difficult to find anyone capable of filling J Edgar Hoover's pumps".
    , @marylou
    Be that as it may.... because Hoover did that, everything MLK was involved in is moot?
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  • Thanks!

    Now we have a more interesting alternative in celebrating MLK Day, or maybe even Black History Mumf.

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  • Reads like a tabloid – nice work Ronny.

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  • I read the FBI analysis shortly after it was released to the public.

    It seems at least as “credible” as the allegations of Judge Roy Moore’s supposed dalliances with teenage girls, or of the Trump campaign’s supposed collusion with the Russians.

    Interesting, isn’t it, how differently the press treats these claims?

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    If my experience is representative, King aficionadoes get very hot under the collar when you bring up his personal shortcomings. The thing is, he was a clergyman, so personal shortcomings are not ancillary matters. And his conduct was odd for a man born in 1929 (much less a clergyman born in 1929). Another mess of the era was James Hashcookies Pike, the Episcopal Bishop of California. One person I've sent into a rage by discussing King as he was was an Episcopal minister. I think I could bring up Pike as Pike without sending her into orbit.

    The thing about King was that he had a skill set and a message which was good for one discrete moment in time. Not much indication from his acts and omissions during the period running from 1965 to 1968 that he'd have been able to make a salutary contribution after that date.
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