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 All Comments / By Charles Bausman
    Most people know about, but few are willing to condemn, the strict taboo in the media, of criticizing Jews as a group, using that term. One cannot even criticize a small subsection of Jews, a miniscule percentage of the Jewish population, even when they richly deserve it. Obviously, this is a ridiculous way to run...
  • @helena
    Meaning you don't believe in the supernatural? are you a humanist?

    The entire pseudo-problem of ‘natural vs supernatural’ was created by the rejection of the Trinity and Incarnation by the simple minded creators of the ‘monotheist’ religions like Judaism and Mahomedanism, which degenerated in unitarianism, deism and finally materialism. Also by the fraudulent replacement of the concept of ‘cosmos/world’ by ‘Nature’.

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  • @Cloak And Dagger

    (The royal We? )
     
    Some take the "we" to be plural. Velikovsky posited in his 12th Planet series that humans were produced by genetic engineering on the apes of this planet by aliens from the 12th planet (Nibiru) and that the Sumerian mythology should be taken literally. These aliens were seen as deities by the primitive humans, and so their proclamations as "we" were, in fact, the voice of the many gods.

    While Velikovsky's description of Nibiru (aka Planet X) and its imminent return is a little hard to swallow from a scientific perspective, his translation of Sumerian mythology is unparalleled. One can see the origins of many of the stories of the OT in those ancient writings.

    All the BS produced by Velikovsky and Sitchin is hard to swallow.

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  • @RobinG
    "We have created man.....in order to try him... We showed him the way, whether he be grateful or ungrateful."

    (The royal We? )

    (The royal We? )

    Some take the “we” to be plural. Velikovsky posited in his 12th Planet series that humans were produced by genetic engineering on the apes of this planet by aliens from the 12th planet (Nibiru) and that the Sumerian mythology should be taken literally. These aliens were seen as deities by the primitive humans, and so their proclamations as “we” were, in fact, the voice of the many gods.

    While Velikovsky’s description of Nibiru (aka Planet X) and its imminent return is a little hard to swallow from a scientific perspective, his translation of Sumerian mythology is unparalleled. One can see the origins of many of the stories of the OT in those ancient writings.

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    • Replies: @Seraphim
    All the BS produced by Velikovsky and Sitchin is hard to swallow.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @helena
    I don't think I agree. AI is created by human nature so it exists within human nature but if it is self-learning* then it is its own nature - a bit like Danes migrating to England and then to N Ireland and then to Appalachia. Artificial cultures.

    *It can only be self-learning within the nature it was originally given? Do Positivists create the same AI as Constructivists?

    Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Who you calling artificial? :)

    AI appeals to the stem side. It is their attempt to transcend human nature. Most of them repudiate the blank slate, but they come right back with liberalism 2.0 and call it AI.

    Do Positivists create the same AI as Constructivists?

    I’m sure you have seen the whining about “racist, sexist, (n)” algorithms.

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  • @iffen
    AI is just the latest attempt to show that man exists outside of his nature.

    I don’t think I agree. AI is created by human nature so it exists within human nature but if it is self-learning* then it is its own nature – a bit like Danes migrating to England and then to N Ireland and then to Appalachia. Artificial cultures.

    *It can only be self-learning within the nature it was originally given? Do Positivists create the same AI as Constructivists?

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Who you calling artificial? :)

    AI appeals to the stem side. It is their attempt to transcend human nature. Most of them repudiate the blank slate, but they come right back with liberalism 2.0 and call it AI.

    Do Positivists create the same AI as Constructivists?

    I'm sure you have seen the whining about "racist, sexist, (n)" algorithms.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @RobinG
    "We have created man.....in order to try him... We showed him the way, whether he be grateful or ungrateful."

    (The royal We? )

    Yup.

    Peace.

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    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Talha

    A God without devotees does not exist.
     
    This is the crux of the matter after all; did God create man or did man create "god".

    A cosmos without humans exists(ed) but it is (was) not the same one that we “see.”
     
    Assuredly, this depends on the perspective of the one being asked.

    There is a chapter of the Qur'an called "Man" or "Mankind", the first verse goes:
    "Was there not a period of time when man was nothing worth mentioning?" (76:1)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRn8Xc41nUI

    Peace.

    “We have created man…..in order to try him… We showed him the way, whether he be grateful or ungrateful.”

    (The royal We? )

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Yup.

    Peace.
    , @Cloak And Dagger

    (The royal We? )
     
    Some take the "we" to be plural. Velikovsky posited in his 12th Planet series that humans were produced by genetic engineering on the apes of this planet by aliens from the 12th planet (Nibiru) and that the Sumerian mythology should be taken literally. These aliens were seen as deities by the primitive humans, and so their proclamations as "we" were, in fact, the voice of the many gods.

    While Velikovsky's description of Nibiru (aka Planet X) and its imminent return is a little hard to swallow from a scientific perspective, his translation of Sumerian mythology is unparalleled. One can see the origins of many of the stories of the OT in those ancient writings.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • A God without devotees does not exist.

    This is the crux of the matter after all; did God create man or did man create “god”.

    A cosmos without humans exists(ed) but it is (was) not the same one that we “see.”

    Assuredly, this depends on the perspective of the one being asked.

    There is a chapter of the Qur’an called “Man” or “Mankind”, the first verse goes:
    “Was there not a period of time when man was nothing worth mentioning?” (76:1)

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @RobinG
    "We have created man.....in order to try him... We showed him the way, whether he be grateful or ungrateful."

    (The royal We? )
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Talha
    I think more in the vein of the Greek materialists. I like to call people materialists since it tells us what the believe in - in a positive sense. Atheist tells you what the person doesn't believe in, but materialist identifies what they believe (only) exists.

    Yes, humanism seems to be the moral framework that materialists put forward. I'm not really sure what that means exactly since all ideologies and frameworks are formulated by and for the benefit of humans, but that's another subject.

    Peace.

    “philosophy
    a person who supports the theory that nothing exists except matter and its movements and modifications:
    “an atheist and philosophical materialist””

    Yes

    “Humanism is a philosophical and ethical stance that emphasizes the value and agency of human beings, individually and collectively, and generally prefers critical thinking and evidence (rationalism and empiricism) over acceptance of dogma or superstition.”

    Yes

    A God without devotees does not exist.

    A cosmos without humans exists(ed) but it is (was) not the same one that we “see.”

    Cultivation of virtues is where it’s at. I consider religion virtuous.

    We cannot transcend; we can only try.

    Trying can have good or bad results.

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    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @helena
    ah. thanks. as in dialectical?

    isn't humanism a form of materialism?

    I think more in the vein of the Greek materialists. I like to call people materialists since it tells us what the believe in – in a positive sense. Atheist tells you what the person doesn’t believe in, but materialist identifies what they believe (only) exists.

    Yes, humanism seems to be the moral framework that materialists put forward. I’m not really sure what that means exactly since all ideologies and frameworks are formulated by and for the benefit of humans, but that’s another subject.

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    “philosophy
    a person who supports the theory that nothing exists except matter and its movements and modifications:
    "an atheist and philosophical materialist"”


    Yes

    “Humanism is a philosophical and ethical stance that emphasizes the value and agency of human beings, individually and collectively, and generally prefers critical thinking and evidence (rationalism and empiricism) over acceptance of dogma or superstition.”

    Yes

    A God without devotees does not exist.

    A cosmos without humans exists(ed) but it is (was) not the same one that we “see.”

    Cultivation of virtues is where it’s at. I consider religion virtuous.

    We cannot transcend; we can only try.

    Trying can have good or bad results.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Talha
    I think he's a materialist - in the philosophical meaning of that word.

    Peace.

    ah. thanks. as in dialectical?

    isn’t humanism a form of materialism?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    I think more in the vein of the Greek materialists. I like to call people materialists since it tells us what the believe in - in a positive sense. Atheist tells you what the person doesn't believe in, but materialist identifies what they believe (only) exists.

    Yes, humanism seems to be the moral framework that materialists put forward. I'm not really sure what that means exactly since all ideologies and frameworks are formulated by and for the benefit of humans, but that's another subject.

    Peace.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @helena
    Meaning you don't believe in the supernatural? are you a humanist?

    I think he’s a materialist – in the philosophical meaning of that word.

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @helena
    ah. thanks. as in dialectical?

    isn't humanism a form of materialism?

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Meaning you don’t believe in the supernatural? are you a humanist?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    I think he's a materialist - in the philosophical meaning of that word.

    Peace.
    , @Seraphim
    The entire pseudo-problem of 'natural vs supernatural' was created by the rejection of the Trinity and Incarnation by the simple minded creators of the 'monotheist' religions like Judaism and Mahomedanism, which degenerated in unitarianism, deism and finally materialism. Also by the fraudulent replacement of the concept of 'cosmos/world' by 'Nature'.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @helena
    love it.

    "Gilmore's fans admire his tenor voice, which delivers expressive, pure, country-inflected singing"

    what is that, a sort of double-note/pitch harmony in the voice?


    "Gilmore spent much of the 1970s in an ashram in Denver, Colorado, studying metaphysics with teenaged Indian guru Prem Rawat, also known as Maharaji."

    I hung around with a group of 'Premies' in the 80s. They were a generation older than me but the father of my children decided to do the knowledge and that was certainly a factor in us breaking up. I was heavily pregnant but found myself driving him around to meetings to try and get the knowledge. And the whole, 'ooh, we can't tell you what it is' schtick drove me nuts until eventually a no-nonsense young Irish girlfriend of ours told me, 'ah, the knowledge is just some meditation techniques'. He still does it though, I believe, happily married with his much younger lady!

    My impression is that meditation, deep breathing, etc. is real and can seem to be beneficial to some. I have no knowledge of controlled studies showing treatment efficacy for whatever might ail you.

    I have received a vaccination of belief in the supernatural that has given me complete immunity to any and all other forms.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @AaronB
    I like that scheme :)

    Thing is, debates don't solve anything. They are pointless.

    Worse, they are just an attempt to impose your will on someone through "logic". It's a form of combat, it never gets anywhere.

    There's this false dichotomy between rhetoric and "neutral" dialectic. Theyre the same. Both are forms of combat, one using emotion, one logic, both fail to convince, and both are prone to tricks, dishonesty, and bad faith.

    A favorite Jewish tactic is to try and debate you only to exhaust, distract, and confuse you. It's best not to play the game - it's not designed to be winnable - but that's legitimate, because it's just another form of combat.

    I prefer offering ideas and explanations, which anyone may consider and investigate further on his own, or ask me for clarifications about - not "proof" - or even point out some mistakes.

    Only people who are already somewhat in agreement will even be intrigued.

    Debates are illusory.

    Thing is, debates don’t solve anything. They are pointless.

    Worse, they are just an attempt to impose your will on someone through “logic”. It’s a form of combat, it never gets anywhere.

    Well, duh. Debates are not to change the debaters’ opinions. It’s an intellectual performance for others, some of whom who will either choose sides, or see the points of both, or be left indifferent. Whole nations have been swayed by debates. Mass conversions have occurred.
    Debaters know that.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @iffen
    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=my+mind+has+a+mind+of+its+own&view=detail&mid=015DF34721AB71105240015DF34721AB71105240&FORM=VIRE

    love it.

    “Gilmore’s fans admire his tenor voice, which delivers expressive, pure, country-inflected singing”

    what is that, a sort of double-note/pitch harmony in the voice?

    “Gilmore spent much of the 1970s in an ashram in Denver, Colorado, studying metaphysics with teenaged Indian guru Prem Rawat, also known as Maharaji.”

    I hung around with a group of ‘Premies’ in the 80s. They were a generation older than me but the father of my children decided to do the knowledge and that was certainly a factor in us breaking up. I was heavily pregnant but found myself driving him around to meetings to try and get the knowledge. And the whole, ‘ooh, we can’t tell you what it is’ schtick drove me nuts until eventually a no-nonsense young Irish girlfriend of ours told me, ‘ah, the knowledge is just some meditation techniques’. He still does it though, I believe, happily married with his much younger lady!

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    My impression is that meditation, deep breathing, etc. is real and can seem to be beneficial to some. I have no knowledge of controlled studies showing treatment efficacy for whatever might ail you.

    I have received a vaccination of belief in the supernatural that has given me complete immunity to any and all other forms.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • I’ve stopped watching CNN.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @helena
    I don’t get out much anymore.

    I'm sorry to hear that, are you elderly, disabled?

    This will cheer you up:

    Women have more orgasms during sex with men who are more symmetrical. https://www.livescience.com/4002-symmetry-nature-fundamental-fact-human-bias.html

    No, not that, this~:

    The evolution of any structure goes from symmetry to asymmetry...Triaxial asymmetry type should be the most evolutionary advanced [humans] (Fig. 3) http://geodakian.com/en/70_Asymmetry_en.htm

    It's not an hypothesis I'm familiar with. Anyway, at least one person agrees with you.

    But then others are going the other way:
    Some think that the so-far elusive "Theory of Everything," ...will contain some type of universal symmetry that fully explains and knits all the known laws of physics together
    Or are they?
    Livio thinks that in time scientists might be able to see past our biological preference for symmetry. same as ref.1

    Nowadays if there is a theory a, there is an equal and opposite theory not-a. So people can choose what to believe. (she tentatively suggests).

    AI is just the latest attempt to show that man exists outside of his nature.

    Read More
    • Replies: @helena
    I don't think I agree. AI is created by human nature so it exists within human nature but if it is self-learning* then it is its own nature - a bit like Danes migrating to England and then to N Ireland and then to Appalachia. Artificial cultures.

    *It can only be self-learning within the nature it was originally given? Do Positivists create the same AI as Constructivists?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @helena
    last night I saw a news journalist interviewing a robot scientist about a new robot that behaves like a dog. the journalist couldn't get past the dog-likeness.

    the scientist kept laughing and saying 'it's not a dog, it's a robot and it's not that big a deal, just a small improvement in robot science'.

    then the journalist moved on to what happens if the dog is hacked so that it not only opens the cupboard door but also pushes someone in and shuts the door.

    again the scientist laughed and wouldn't take his question seriously until, when pushed, she launched into a mini-diatribe about how people sit at home everyday with smart phones that are open to all sorts of security risks.

    - two brains passing like strangers in the night.

    Maybe artificial intelligence can actually steer us away from narrativism as a mode of interaction and knowledge generation.
    Read More
    • Replies: @helena
    love it.

    "Gilmore's fans admire his tenor voice, which delivers expressive, pure, country-inflected singing"

    what is that, a sort of double-note/pitch harmony in the voice?


    "Gilmore spent much of the 1970s in an ashram in Denver, Colorado, studying metaphysics with teenaged Indian guru Prem Rawat, also known as Maharaji."

    I hung around with a group of 'Premies' in the 80s. They were a generation older than me but the father of my children decided to do the knowledge and that was certainly a factor in us breaking up. I was heavily pregnant but found myself driving him around to meetings to try and get the knowledge. And the whole, 'ooh, we can't tell you what it is' schtick drove me nuts until eventually a no-nonsense young Irish girlfriend of ours told me, 'ah, the knowledge is just some meditation techniques'. He still does it though, I believe, happily married with his much younger lady!
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @RobinG
    "That is correct, they got close to a million for that march; we did an article in our paper at UCLA after it happened. "

    Talha, are our wires crossed? I'm not talking about first MMM 23 years ago, but 2015, 2 or 3 years ago. Yes, of course, there were many friends and allies (like me) not just NOI. Anyway, it may be some time before I speak to anyone. I don't get out much anymore.

    I don’t get out much anymore.

    I’m sorry to hear that, are you elderly, disabled?

    This will cheer you up:

    Women have more orgasms during sex with men who are more symmetrical. https://www.livescience.com/4002-symmetry-nature-fundamental-fact-human-bias.html

    No, not that, this~:

    The evolution of any structure goes from symmetry to asymmetry…Triaxial asymmetry type should be the most evolutionary advanced [humans] (Fig. 3) http://geodakian.com/en/70_Asymmetry_en.htm

    It’s not an hypothesis I’m familiar with. Anyway, at least one person agrees with you.

    But then others are going the other way:
    Some think that the so-far elusive “Theory of Everything,” …will contain some type of universal symmetry that fully explains and knits all the known laws of physics together
    Or are they?
    Livio thinks that in time scientists might be able to see past our biological preference for symmetry. same as ref.1

    Nowadays if there is a theory a, there is an equal and opposite theory not-a. So people can choose what to believe. (she tentatively suggests).

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    AI is just the latest attempt to show that man exists outside of his nature.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @iffen
    What is concerning is the abuse of science and knowledge to fit the Narrative.

    Very much so, but the more woke I get, the more that I understand that the rule of empiricism was a one-time interregnum.

    last night I saw a news journalist interviewing a robot scientist about a new robot that behaves like a dog. the journalist couldn’t get past the dog-likeness.

    the scientist kept laughing and saying ‘it’s not a dog, it’s a robot and it’s not that big a deal, just a small improvement in robot science’.

    then the journalist moved on to what happens if the dog is hacked so that it not only opens the cupboard door but also pushes someone in and shuts the door.

    again the scientist laughed and wouldn’t take his question seriously until, when pushed, she launched into a mini-diatribe about how people sit at home everyday with smart phones that are open to all sorts of security risks.

    - two brains passing like strangers in the night.

    Maybe artificial intelligence can actually steer us away from narrativism as a mode of interaction and knowledge generation.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=my+mind+has+a+mind+of+its+own&view=detail&mid=015DF34721AB71105240015DF34721AB71105240&FORM=VIRE
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @RobinG
    "That is correct, they got close to a million for that march; we did an article in our paper at UCLA after it happened. "

    Talha, are our wires crossed? I'm not talking about first MMM 23 years ago, but 2015, 2 or 3 years ago. Yes, of course, there were many friends and allies (like me) not just NOI. Anyway, it may be some time before I speak to anyone. I don't get out much anymore.

    Oh OK – yes, I was talking about the original one that I believe was even bigger.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Talha
    Hey RobinG,

    That is correct, they got close to a million for that march; we did an article in our paper at UCLA after it happened. Plenty of Sunni Muslims went to it and plenty of Christians also. The NOI definitely were the main organizers, but it was a call out to African American men in general, not just their group.

    It remains a very impressive representation of their ability to organize something of that scale despite their own numbers.

    Check with your contacts, I’d love to know what their own estimates are of their numbers. Britannica estimates them between 10k-50k:
    https://www.britannica.com/topic/Nation-of-Islam

    Peace.

    “That is correct, they got close to a million for that march; we did an article in our paper at UCLA after it happened. ”

    Talha, are our wires crossed? I’m not talking about first MMM 23 years ago, but 2015, 2 or 3 years ago. Yes, of course, there were many friends and allies (like me) not just NOI. Anyway, it may be some time before I speak to anyone. I don’t get out much anymore.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Oh OK - yes, I was talking about the original one that I believe was even bigger.
    , @helena
    I don’t get out much anymore.

    I'm sorry to hear that, are you elderly, disabled?

    This will cheer you up:

    Women have more orgasms during sex with men who are more symmetrical. https://www.livescience.com/4002-symmetry-nature-fundamental-fact-human-bias.html

    No, not that, this~:

    The evolution of any structure goes from symmetry to asymmetry...Triaxial asymmetry type should be the most evolutionary advanced [humans] (Fig. 3) http://geodakian.com/en/70_Asymmetry_en.htm

    It's not an hypothesis I'm familiar with. Anyway, at least one person agrees with you.

    But then others are going the other way:
    Some think that the so-far elusive "Theory of Everything," ...will contain some type of universal symmetry that fully explains and knits all the known laws of physics together
    Or are they?
    Livio thinks that in time scientists might be able to see past our biological preference for symmetry. same as ref.1

    Nowadays if there is a theory a, there is an equal and opposite theory not-a. So people can choose what to believe. (she tentatively suggests).
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @RobinG
    "The NOI is a very marginal group at this point; a few tens of thousands at most."

    I'll check this out with my NOI contacts when I get a chance, but it doesn't seem right. In 2015 they produced "Justice or Else," the 20th anniversary of MMM. They didn't get 1M, but many more than a few tens of thousands on the Mall, plus all those who stayed home and watched the live stream. [This is a little like Trump having the biggest crowd ever..... LOL.]

    NOI introduced their young cadre, with a special emphasis on women. God smiled on them with perfect weather and a warm family atmosphere. Lots of good photos here -
    http://darkroom.baltimoresun.com/2015/10/million-man-march-20th-anniversary/#1

    Hey RobinG,

    That is correct, they got close to a million for that march; we did an article in our paper at UCLA after it happened. Plenty of Sunni Muslims went to it and plenty of Christians also. The NOI definitely were the main organizers, but it was a call out to African American men in general, not just their group.

    It remains a very impressive representation of their ability to organize something of that scale despite their own numbers.

    Check with your contacts, I’d love to know what their own estimates are of their numbers. Britannica estimates them between 10k-50k:

    https://www.britannica.com/topic/Nation-of-Islam

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @RobinG
    "That is correct, they got close to a million for that march; we did an article in our paper at UCLA after it happened. "

    Talha, are our wires crossed? I'm not talking about first MMM 23 years ago, but 2015, 2 or 3 years ago. Yes, of course, there were many friends and allies (like me) not just NOI. Anyway, it may be some time before I speak to anyone. I don't get out much anymore.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Talha
    Hey RobinG,

    Most followers of NOI came to normal Sunni Islam once Elijah Muhamma's son, the late Warith Deen Muhammad became Sunni and helped guide his flock.

    The NOI is a very marginal group at this point; a few tens of thousands at most. I doubt they'll do much after the old-guard like Farrakhan pass away.

    There's not much dialogue from what I've seen. They are a racialist group (not to mention the very different beliefs) - we don't work well with those.

    Malcolm-X (ra) was something else, he was a very good brother - the Hajj changed him:
    http://theidealmuslimman.com/2017/01/19/malcolmx-letter-mecca/

    He met with and learned from some of the ulema in Sudan and Cairo:
    http://archive.news.indiana.edu/releases/iu/2016/01/journal-of-american-history-malcolm-in-cairo.shtml

    He was one of the most articulate voices of Islam in America, we miss him profoundly. Spike Lee's film was amazing - had a big effect on me in high school in the formation of my identity.

    Peace.

    “The NOI is a very marginal group at this point; a few tens of thousands at most.”

    I’ll check this out with my NOI contacts when I get a chance, but it doesn’t seem right. In 2015 they produced “Justice or Else,” the 20th anniversary of MMM. They didn’t get 1M, but many more than a few tens of thousands on the Mall, plus all those who stayed home and watched the live stream. [This is a little like Trump having the biggest crowd ever..... LOL.]

    NOI introduced their young cadre, with a special emphasis on women. God smiled on them with perfect weather and a warm family atmosphere. Lots of good photos here -

    http://darkroom.baltimoresun.com/2015/10/million-man-march-20th-anniversary/#1

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey RobinG,

    That is correct, they got close to a million for that march; we did an article in our paper at UCLA after it happened. Plenty of Sunni Muslims went to it and plenty of Christians also. The NOI definitely were the main organizers, but it was a call out to African American men in general, not just their group.

    It remains a very impressive representation of their ability to organize something of that scale despite their own numbers.

    Check with your contacts, I’d love to know what their own estimates are of their numbers. Britannica estimates them between 10k-50k:
    https://www.britannica.com/topic/Nation-of-Islam

    Peace.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @RobinG
    What is the exchange between traditional Muslims and the Nation of Islam? Is there any? We just watched Malcolm X, from 1992. Felt like I'd seen parts of it before. Maybe it was on TV. Spike Lee makes a good film.

    Spike Lee makes a good film.

    Do the Right Thing is top tier.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @RobinG
    What is the exchange between traditional Muslims and the Nation of Islam? Is there any? We just watched Malcolm X, from 1992. Felt like I'd seen parts of it before. Maybe it was on TV. Spike Lee makes a good film.

    Hey RobinG,

    Most followers of NOI came to normal Sunni Islam once Elijah Muhamma’s son, the late Warith Deen Muhammad became Sunni and helped guide his flock.

    The NOI is a very marginal group at this point; a few tens of thousands at most. I doubt they’ll do much after the old-guard like Farrakhan pass away.

    There’s not much dialogue from what I’ve seen. They are a racialist group (not to mention the very different beliefs) – we don’t work well with those.

    Malcolm-X (ra) was something else, he was a very good brother – the Hajj changed him:

    http://theidealmuslimman.com/2017/01/19/malcolmx-letter-mecca/

    He met with and learned from some of the ulema in Sudan and Cairo:

    http://archive.news.indiana.edu/releases/iu/2016/01/journal-of-american-history-malcolm-in-cairo.shtml

    He was one of the most articulate voices of Islam in America, we miss him profoundly. Spike Lee’s film was amazing – had a big effect on me in high school in the formation of my identity.

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @RobinG
    "The NOI is a very marginal group at this point; a few tens of thousands at most."

    I'll check this out with my NOI contacts when I get a chance, but it doesn't seem right. In 2015 they produced "Justice or Else," the 20th anniversary of MMM. They didn't get 1M, but many more than a few tens of thousands on the Mall, plus all those who stayed home and watched the live stream. [This is a little like Trump having the biggest crowd ever..... LOL.]

    NOI introduced their young cadre, with a special emphasis on women. God smiled on them with perfect weather and a warm family atmosphere. Lots of good photos here -
    http://darkroom.baltimoresun.com/2015/10/million-man-march-20th-anniversary/#1
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Talha
    Hey iffen,

    I don't know if you've been keeping up with trends as I have in our community, but there are very positive things in the works. Traditional Muslims are started to have more serious dialogue with conservative Catholics and even Evangelicals about some of the trends that concern our respective communities. Br. Ismail Royer (who I keep up with on a regular basis) wrote a great article about this:
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2018/02/12/im-a-pro-life-muslim-i-believe-there-is-lots-of-common-ground-between-evangelicals-and-muslims/

    It's about time - Muslims have been way too comfy siding with the Left which are not our natural allies. The wide-eyed fanatics in our respective communities will keep barking...the caravan will simply move on.

    Peace.

    What is the exchange between traditional Muslims and the Nation of Islam? Is there any? We just watched Malcolm X, from 1992. Felt like I’d seen parts of it before. Maybe it was on TV. Spike Lee makes a good film.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey RobinG,

    Most followers of NOI came to normal Sunni Islam once Elijah Muhamma's son, the late Warith Deen Muhammad became Sunni and helped guide his flock.

    The NOI is a very marginal group at this point; a few tens of thousands at most. I doubt they'll do much after the old-guard like Farrakhan pass away.

    There's not much dialogue from what I've seen. They are a racialist group (not to mention the very different beliefs) - we don't work well with those.

    Malcolm-X (ra) was something else, he was a very good brother - the Hajj changed him:
    http://theidealmuslimman.com/2017/01/19/malcolmx-letter-mecca/

    He met with and learned from some of the ulema in Sudan and Cairo:
    http://archive.news.indiana.edu/releases/iu/2016/01/journal-of-american-history-malcolm-in-cairo.shtml

    He was one of the most articulate voices of Islam in America, we miss him profoundly. Spike Lee's film was amazing - had a big effect on me in high school in the formation of my identity.

    Peace.

    , @iffen
    Spike Lee makes a good film.

    Do the Right Thing is top tier.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @iffen
    even Evangelicals about some of the trends that concern our respective communities.

    Recognizing common ground is a lot easier than dealing with the Terry Joneses and John Hagees. Not in the same universe really, much less ballpark.

    dealing with the Terry Joneses and John Hagees

    I really want to start a fund to purchase an island where these guys can go and meet up with our nutcases and – ahem – hash out their differences. We could supply pencils and paper via air drop…or chainsaws.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • even Evangelicals about some of the trends that concern our respective communities.

    Recognizing common ground is a lot easier than dealing with the Terry Joneses and John Hagees. Not in the same universe really, much less ballpark.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha

    dealing with the Terry Joneses and John Hagees
     
    I really want to start a fund to purchase an island where these guys can go and meet up with our nutcases and - ahem - hash out their differences. We could supply pencils and paper via air drop...or chainsaws.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @iffen
    Choose your poison, Talha, they contaminate every religion and every denomination.

    Hey iffen,

    I don’t know if you’ve been keeping up with trends as I have in our community, but there are very positive things in the works. Traditional Muslims are started to have more serious dialogue with conservative Catholics and even Evangelicals about some of the trends that concern our respective communities. Br. Ismail Royer (who I keep up with on a regular basis) wrote a great article about this:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2018/02/12/im-a-pro-life-muslim-i-believe-there-is-lots-of-common-ground-between-evangelicals-and-muslims/

    It’s about time – Muslims have been way too comfy siding with the Left which are not our natural allies. The wide-eyed fanatics in our respective communities will keep barking…the caravan will simply move on.

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @RobinG
    What is the exchange between traditional Muslims and the Nation of Islam? Is there any? We just watched Malcolm X, from 1992. Felt like I'd seen parts of it before. Maybe it was on TV. Spike Lee makes a good film.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • Prominent Jewish pundits who are NOT obsessed with the Russia story, and in some cases opposed to the narrative (even though they may have criticized Putin in the past – but who hasn’t?): Alan Dershowitz, Ben Shapiro, Michael Medved, Dennis Prager, Daniel Pipes…

    Also bad for your narrative, you should know that Henry Kissinger just visited Putin trying to ease tensions between Russia and the US.

    Should I mention that some of the messengers between Trump and Putin are Jews? Jared Kushner, Michael Cohen… since the list is too long, let me just provide a link: https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/04/the-happy-go-lucky-jewish-group-that-connects-trump-and-putin-215007

    And, as others pointed out, John Oliver is not Jewish

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @helena
    I've thought for some time that Art may be African American and I don't have a problem with that. Ideology is more important than ethnicity. But Cheddar Man isn't African, look at the cranial structure, the jaw line. What is concerning is the abuse of science and knowledge to fit the Narrative.

    What is concerning is the abuse of science and knowledge to fit the Narrative.

    Very much so, but the more woke I get, the more that I understand that the rule of empiricism was a one-time interregnum.

    Read More
    • Replies: @helena
    last night I saw a news journalist interviewing a robot scientist about a new robot that behaves like a dog. the journalist couldn't get past the dog-likeness.

    the scientist kept laughing and saying 'it's not a dog, it's a robot and it's not that big a deal, just a small improvement in robot science'.

    then the journalist moved on to what happens if the dog is hacked so that it not only opens the cupboard door but also pushes someone in and shuts the door.

    again the scientist laughed and wouldn't take his question seriously until, when pushed, she launched into a mini-diatribe about how people sit at home everyday with smart phones that are open to all sorts of security risks.

    - two brains passing like strangers in the night.

    Maybe artificial intelligence can actually steer us away from narrativism as a mode of interaction and knowledge generation.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Talha
    You are right; all young Muslim men should be ordered to memorize Siraj Ale Imran as punishment. It’s the least we can do.

    Choose your poison, Talha, they contaminate every religion and every denomination.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey iffen,

    I don't know if you've been keeping up with trends as I have in our community, but there are very positive things in the works. Traditional Muslims are started to have more serious dialogue with conservative Catholics and even Evangelicals about some of the trends that concern our respective communities. Br. Ismail Royer (who I keep up with on a regular basis) wrote a great article about this:
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2018/02/12/im-a-pro-life-muslim-i-believe-there-is-lots-of-common-ground-between-evangelicals-and-muslims/

    It's about time - Muslims have been way too comfy siding with the Left which are not our natural allies. The wide-eyed fanatics in our respective communities will keep barking...the caravan will simply move on.

    Peace.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Talha
    You are right; all young Muslim men should be ordered to memorize Siraj Ale Imran as punishment. It’s the least we can do.

    You mean to perpetuate the insult.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Seraphim
    No matter that the surah in question is no less insulting for Christians!

    You are right; all young Muslim men should be ordered to memorize Siraj Ale Imran as punishment. It’s the least we can do.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Seraphim
    You mean to perpetuate the insult.
    , @iffen
    Choose your poison, Talha, they contaminate every religion and every denomination.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Talha
    You’ll like this one...
    “A Lebanese judge ordered three Muslim young men who insulted Christianity to memorize verses from the Quran’s Al-Omran surah which glorifies Virgin Mary and Jesus Christ.”
    https://english.alarabiya.net/en/variety/2018/02/11/Lebanese-judge-orders-3-Muslims-to-memorize-Quran-verses-hailing-Mary-Jesus.html

    Ha! Love it - that is the second largest chapter - that should teach ‘em manners!

    Peace.

    No matter that the surah in question is no less insulting for Christians!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    You are right; all young Muslim men should be ordered to memorize Siraj Ale Imran as punishment. It’s the least we can do.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @iffen
    We claim our identity to be a part of human history itself

    Wow! The original humans.

    No wonder y'all have so much trouble getting along with non-Muslims. :)

    You’ll like this one…
    “A Lebanese judge ordered three Muslim young men who insulted Christianity to memorize verses from the Quran’s Al-Omran surah which glorifies Virgin Mary and Jesus Christ.”

    https://english.alarabiya.net/en/variety/2018/02/11/Lebanese-judge-orders-3-Muslims-to-memorize-Quran-verses-hailing-Mary-Jesus.html

    Ha! Love it – that is the second largest chapter – that should teach ‘em manners!

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Seraphim
    No matter that the surah in question is no less insulting for Christians!
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Art
    But we have been denied our identity in order to dispossess us.

    helena,

    In the twenty first century, is our identity better tied to these intellectuals: Jesus, Newton, Darwin, Faraday, and Henry Ford (i.e., Western thought) - or to some biological genetic coercive skin cabal.

    What actually rules humanity today – knowledge or genetics?

    Which will bring peace and prosperity – it cannot be both. Skin or brains?

    Can we give up our skin – for our brains?

    Think Peace --- Art

    I don’t see why it can’t be both. God created evolution and evolution produced some wonderful ethnic groups. Multiracialism was working OK until Marxists forced multiculturalism on Europeans. Skin colour is used as a cloak to hide the real purpose, which is to destroy the ideas of Jesus, Newton, Darwin. Europeans complain about behaviour, not skin colour. Marxists immediately condemn the complaints as being solely based on skin colour.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @iffen
    What's the deal, Arts. Do you have Cheddar Man genes fully expressed?

    I’ve thought for some time that Art may be African American and I don’t have a problem with that. Ideology is more important than ethnicity. But Cheddar Man isn’t African, look at the cranial structure, the jaw line. What is concerning is the abuse of science and knowledge to fit the Narrative.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    What is concerning is the abuse of science and knowledge to fit the Narrative.

    Very much so, but the more woke I get, the more that I understand that the rule of empiricism was a one-time interregnum.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Talha
    Best thing to do is pray for my guidance, as I will for you.

    You are severely delusional if you think I (or anyone, for that matter) could possibly need your guidance, but as I said, there is no worse blindness than the voluntary self inflicted one. It amounts to the sin against the Holy Ghost:
    “All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come” (Matthew 12:31-32).

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Seraphim
    I am glad that you begin to see some light. Some scales seem to fall from your eyes, but not enough. You have more work to do, but that should be your 'thang'. You must understand the equally awesome reasons why we cannot be 'hanifs' and will never be, ISIS or not. There is not for the blind to guide those who see. The blind recovered his sight only through Christ (the one of the 'trinitarian' Christians, the non-trinitarian are not Christians even if they call themselves that). Be aware that there is no worse blindness than voluntary blindness.

    Best thing to do is pray for my guidance, as I will for you.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Seraphim
    You are severely delusional if you think I (or anyone, for that matter) could possibly need your guidance, but as I said, there is no worse blindness than the voluntary self inflicted one. It amounts to the sin against the Holy Ghost:
    "All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come" (Matthew 12:31-32).
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Robert Waldmann
    If you really think that opposition to Putin is largely a Jewish phenomenon, you are completely mistaken. Putin is widely detested by people of all religions (and also agnostsics and atheists).

    As you should be able to tell from my last name, I am a gentile and I deeply despise him. The vast majority of non-Russians who have any opinion of Putin think he is a horrible person. Most also find him absurd (but we fear his weapons even if he seems to be a buffoon).

    I know he is very popular in Russia, but he is very unpopular in the rest of the world.

    I haven't noticed any correlation with Jewishness, because I have never met anyone with a favorable opinion of Putin (never not one ever).

    I assume that you will not find this comment pleasant, but inconvenient facts are better faced. A huge number of people detest the President of Russia. A tiny fraction of them are Jewish.

    sincerely yours,

    Robert Waldmann

    Putin is not only the most popular, but admired by people worldwide, except few like you

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Talha
    Hey Seraphim,

    Thanks for more awesome reasons why you are a trinitarian Christian. Totally support you man, you do your thang!

    I am glad that you begin to see some light. Some scales seem to fall from your eyes, but not enough. You have more work to do, but that should be your ‘thang’. You must understand the equally awesome reasons why we cannot be ‘hanifs’ and will never be, ISIS or not. There is not for the blind to guide those who see. The blind recovered his sight only through Christ (the one of the ‘trinitarian’ Christians, the non-trinitarian are not Christians even if they call themselves that). Be aware that there is no worse blindness than voluntary blindness.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Best thing to do is pray for my guidance, as I will for you.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Art
    But we have been denied our identity in order to dispossess us.

    helena,

    In the twenty first century, is our identity better tied to these intellectuals: Jesus, Newton, Darwin, Faraday, and Henry Ford (i.e., Western thought) - or to some biological genetic coercive skin cabal.

    What actually rules humanity today – knowledge or genetics?

    Which will bring peace and prosperity – it cannot be both. Skin or brains?

    Can we give up our skin – for our brains?

    Think Peace --- Art

    What’s the deal, Arts. Do you have Cheddar Man genes fully expressed?

    Read More
    • Replies: @helena
    I've thought for some time that Art may be African American and I don't have a problem with that. Ideology is more important than ethnicity. But Cheddar Man isn't African, look at the cranial structure, the jaw line. What is concerning is the abuse of science and knowledge to fit the Narrative.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @helena
    But the point is Talha, an homogenous ethnicity going back 5000 years is as bona fide as E Asian, SE Asian, Indian, W African, E African etc. But we have been denied our identity in order to dispossess us.

    But we have been denied our identity in order to dispossess us.

    helena,

    In the twenty first century, is our identity better tied to these intellectuals: Jesus, Newton, Darwin, Faraday, and Henry Ford (i.e., Western thought) – or to some biological genetic coercive skin cabal.

    What actually rules humanity today – knowledge or genetics?

    Which will bring peace and prosperity – it cannot be both. Skin or brains?

    Can we give up our skin – for our brains?

    Think Peace — Art

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    What's the deal, Arts. Do you have Cheddar Man genes fully expressed?
    , @helena
    I don't see why it can't be both. God created evolution and evolution produced some wonderful ethnic groups. Multiracialism was working OK until Marxists forced multiculturalism on Europeans. Skin colour is used as a cloak to hide the real purpose, which is to destroy the ideas of Jesus, Newton, Darwin. Europeans complain about behaviour, not skin colour. Marxists immediately condemn the complaints as being solely based on skin colour.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @iffen
    But we have been denied our identity in order to dispossess us.

    “We” have not been denied anything. The elites have decided that “we” will not be predicated on race.

    Ah. The first internet exchange I had was with someone who obsessed about intensional statements. I think I might have come full circle.

    Really, I would quite happily settle simply for everyone to understand that public space, in the West, belongs to everyone and should be treated with respect. :)

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @helena
    But the point is Talha, an homogenous ethnicity going back 5000 years is as bona fide as E Asian, SE Asian, Indian, W African, E African etc. But we have been denied our identity in order to dispossess us.

    But we have been denied our identity in order to dispossess us.

    “We” have not been denied anything. The elites have decided that “we” will not be predicated on race.

    Read More
    • Replies: @helena
    Ah. The first internet exchange I had was with someone who obsessed about intensional statements. I think I might have come full circle.

    Really, I would quite happily settle simply for everyone to understand that public space, in the West, belongs to everyone and should be treated with respect. :)

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @helena
    But the point is Talha, an homogenous ethnicity going back 5000 years is as bona fide as E Asian, SE Asian, Indian, W African, E African etc. But we have been denied our identity in order to dispossess us.

    Ah OK, I didn’t get that angle at first because I usually don’t think along those lines. I see ethnic lines and genealogy as just an interesting aspect of human history. But I do see the point you are making.

    Peace.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Talha
    Hey Helena,

    Totally makes sense; Europe (as well Britain) have definitely been the scene of conquests and movements of tribes. One thing in human history that remains constant...is change!

    Peace.

    But the point is Talha, an homogenous ethnicity going back 5000 years is as bona fide as E Asian, SE Asian, Indian, W African, E African etc. But we have been denied our identity in order to dispossess us.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Ah OK, I didn't get that angle at first because I usually don't think along those lines. I see ethnic lines and genealogy as just an interesting aspect of human history. But I do see the point you are making.

    Peace.
    , @iffen
    But we have been denied our identity in order to dispossess us.

    “We” have not been denied anything. The elites have decided that “we” will not be predicated on race.
    , @Art
    But we have been denied our identity in order to dispossess us.

    helena,

    In the twenty first century, is our identity better tied to these intellectuals: Jesus, Newton, Darwin, Faraday, and Henry Ford (i.e., Western thought) - or to some biological genetic coercive skin cabal.

    What actually rules humanity today – knowledge or genetics?

    Which will bring peace and prosperity – it cannot be both. Skin or brains?

    Can we give up our skin – for our brains?

    Think Peace --- Art
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @helena
    "about 10% of the ancestry of modern Britons comes from the early Mesolithic European population that included Cheddar Man. The remainder of modern British ancestry comes from later immigrants" wiki

    This is the one they don't want to publicise:
    http://dienekes.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/recent-radiation-of-r-m269-males-in.html

    The explosion of R-M269 descendants who (seemingly) went from zero to a solid majority in much of Western Europe over the last few thousand years is probably one of the most interesting events in recent European history. Not many would have entertained such a possibility until a few years ago, but truth is often stranger than fiction.

    Hey Helena,

    Totally makes sense; Europe (as well Britain) have definitely been the scene of conquests and movements of tribes. One thing in human history that remains constant…is change!

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @helena
    But the point is Talha, an homogenous ethnicity going back 5000 years is as bona fide as E Asian, SE Asian, Indian, W African, E African etc. But we have been denied our identity in order to dispossess us.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Seraphim
    Actually the Abraham of the Tanakh worshiped the image of the Trinity which appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre and visited his house.

    "1Now the LORD (YHVH, ὁ Θεὸς) appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, while he was sitting at the tent door in the heat of the day. 2When he lifted up his eyes and looked, behold, three men were standing opposite him; and when he saw THEM, he ran from the tent door to meet THEM and bowed himself to the earth, 3and said, "My LORD (ADON, κύριε,), if now I have found favor in your sight, please do not pass your servant by.…" (Genesis 18:2-4).
    And that is from the Hebrew text of the Tanakh which is extant and conform to the Hebrew text of the Dead Sea Scrolls. Not like the 'Ṣuḥuf ʾIbrāhīm' of the ʾAlf layla wa-layla' called the Quran, which existed only in the fervid imagination of Mahomed.

    The 'corner stone' is Jesus. The Bukhari and Muslim misappropriated Saint Paul:

    "11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, JESUS HIMSELF BEING THE CHIEF CORNER STONE; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit" (Ephesians 2:11-22).
    "Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. 7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, foretold the gospel to Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. 9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham" (Galatians 3:6-9). The faith in Christ, the faith in the Trinity.
    Can you see why Christians can't take seriously the ravings of the 'hanifs'?

    Hey Seraphim,

    Thanks for more awesome reasons why you are a trinitarian Christian. Totally support you man, you do your thang!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Seraphim
    I am glad that you begin to see some light. Some scales seem to fall from your eyes, but not enough. You have more work to do, but that should be your 'thang'. You must understand the equally awesome reasons why we cannot be 'hanifs' and will never be, ISIS or not. There is not for the blind to guide those who see. The blind recovered his sight only through Christ (the one of the 'trinitarian' Christians, the non-trinitarian are not Christians even if they call themselves that). Be aware that there is no worse blindness than voluntary blindness.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Talha
    Of interest...
    https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/science-environment-42939192?

    Curiouser and curiouser...

    “about 10% of the ancestry of modern Britons comes from the early Mesolithic European population that included Cheddar Man. The remainder of modern British ancestry comes from later immigrants” wiki

    This is the one they don’t want to publicise:

    http://dienekes.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/recent-radiation-of-r-m269-males-in.html

    The explosion of R-M269 descendants who (seemingly) went from zero to a solid majority in much of Western Europe over the last few thousand years is probably one of the most interesting events in recent European history. Not many would have entertained such a possibility until a few years ago, but truth is often stranger than fiction.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey Helena,

    Totally makes sense; Europe (as well Britain) have definitely been the scene of conquests and movements of tribes. One thing in human history that remains constant...is change!

    Peace.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Talha
    LOL! Remember, we claim all past prophets (irrespective of ethnicity) and their followers were Muslims (including the Jewish prophets [pbut]). Adam (pbuh) was a Muslim - we go as far back as humanity itself.

    We are nothing new - we are just a restoration of the hanif (pure transcendental monotheism) tradition - everything coming full circle before the eventual plug gets pulled on the whole enterprise.
    “Verily, the parable of myself and the Prophets before me is that of a man who built a house, perfected it, and beautified it, except for the place of one brick at its cornerstone. The people walk around it and are amazed by it, and they say: 'Why is this brick not placed?' Thus, I am the brick and I am the seal of the Prophets.” - reported in Bukhari and Muslim

    Specifically the hanif tradition in the way of our father Abraham (pbuh):
    "Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but was a Hanif Muslim; and he was not of the polytheists." (3:67)

    Very tough to get a jump on us since we'll just appropriate your prophets - just how we roll.

    But getting to the jaw bone - I think it's fairly clear that there were no people known as "Jews" at that time frame.

    Peace.

    Actually the Abraham of the Tanakh worshiped the image of the Trinity which appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre and visited his house.

    “1Now the LORD (YHVH, ὁ Θεὸς) appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, while he was sitting at the tent door in the heat of the day. 2When he lifted up his eyes and looked, behold, three men were standing opposite him; and when he saw THEM, he ran from the tent door to meet THEM and bowed himself to the earth, 3and said, “My LORD (ADON, κύριε,), if now I have found favor in your sight, please do not pass your servant by.…” (Genesis 18:2-4).
    And that is from the Hebrew text of the Tanakh which is extant and conform to the Hebrew text of the Dead Sea Scrolls. Not like the ‘Ṣuḥuf ʾIbrāhīm’ of the ʾAlf layla wa-layla’ called the Quran, which existed only in the fervid imagination of Mahomed.

    The ‘corner stone’ is Jesus. The Bukhari and Muslim misappropriated Saint Paul:

    “11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, JESUS HIMSELF BEING THE CHIEF CORNER STONE; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit” (Ephesians 2:11-22).
    “Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. 7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, foretold the gospel to Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. 9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham” (Galatians 3:6-9). The faith in Christ, the faith in the Trinity.
    Can you see why Christians can’t take seriously the ravings of the ‘hanifs’?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey Seraphim,

    Thanks for more awesome reasons why you are a trinitarian Christian. Totally support you man, you do your thang!
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Seraphim
    The real interesting question is why the Yad Vashem opposed the publication.

    "Hilberg's work received a hostile reception from Yad Vashem, particularly over his treatment of Jewish resistance to the perpetrators of the Holocaust in the book's concluding chapter. Hilberg argued that 'The reaction pattern of the Jews is characterized by almost complete lack of resistance...The documentary evidence of Jewish resistance, overt or submerged, is very slight'. Hilberg attributed this lack of resistance to the Jewish experience as a minority: "In exile, the Jews... had learned that they could avert danger and survive destruction by placating and appeasing their enemies...Thus over a period of centuries the Jews had learned that in order to survive they had to restrain from resistance". Yad Vashem's scholars, including Josef Melkman and Nathan Eck, did not feel that Hilberg's characterizations of Jewish history were correct, but they also felt that by using Jewish history to explain the reaction of the Jewish community to the Holocaust, Hilberg was suggesting that some responsibility for the extent of the destruction fell on the Jews themselves, a position that they found unacceptable. The 1961 trial of Adolf Eichmann, and the subsequent publication by Hannah Arendt and Bruno Bettelheim of works that were more critical of Jewish actions during the Holocaust than Hilberg had been, inflamed the controversy. In 1967, Nathan Eck wrote a sharply critical review of Hilberg, Arendt, and Bettelheim's claims in Yad Vashem Studies, the organization's research journal, titled 'Historical Research or Slander'."

    One reason is that the mythology of the 'uniqueness of the Holocaust' had not yet been fully worked out. Actually, of the 'Holocaust' as such. Nowhere Hilberg and others used the term which popped up only in the late 60s.
    "The term Holocaust was used by historians in the 1950s as a translation of Shoah, and in 1968 the Library of Congress created a new category, "Holocaust, Jewish (1939–1945). The NBC television mini-series Holocaust (1978) is credited with having helped to popularize the term in the United States." The biblical term shoah (שואה; also transliterated sho'ah and shoa), meaning "destruction", became the standard Hebrew term, first used in a pamphlet in 1940, for the murder of the European Jews. That's exactly the term used by Hilberg.
    Another reason might be that the figures given by Hilberg fall short of the sacred 6 mil.
    Another one is that he (as well as Hannah Arendt) have spoken too overtly of the collaboration of the Zionists with the Nazis.
    But probably the main reason behind the controversies is the 'resistance'. One can consult with great profit the book of Lucien Steinberg "Not as a lamb" (translated from the French original "La Revolte des Justes", 1970), which seems to be a first response to the development of the 'Shoah/Holocaust' myth. He confirms (and boasts all along) what was always known from many other sources, that a large category of Jews (left leaning or downright Communists) constituted themselves as active combatants against 'Fascism' and played a central role in all "Resistance" movements receiving their marching orders from the Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee (JAC, Russian: Еврейский антифашистский комитет Yevreysky antifashistsky komitet, ЕАК) organized by the Jewish Bund (labor union) leaders Henryk Erlich and Victor Alter, upon an initiative of Soviet authorities, in fall 1941 (reformed on Joseph Stalin's order in April 1942 with the official support of the Soviet authorities. It was designed to influence international public opinion and organize political and material support for the Soviet fight against Nazi Germany, particularly from the West). Their treatment was that applied to combatant enemies, the more that they were partisans.
    One may peruse with the same profit the book of William D. Rubinstein (History/Univ. of Wales, Aberystwyth) : "The Myth of Rescue: Why the Democracies Could Not Have Saved More Jews from the Nazis", 1997.

    The main reason that the most renowned and accomplished holocaust scholar had problems with publishing his book it’s because he couldn’t find 6 or even 5 millions holocaust casualties that he refused to change it and that he pointed out that Yad Vashem have a list with little more than 3 million and many names were counted twice.

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    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • The real interesting question is why the Yad Vashem opposed the publication.

    “Hilberg’s work received a hostile reception from Yad Vashem, particularly over his treatment of Jewish resistance to the perpetrators of the Holocaust in the book’s concluding chapter. Hilberg argued that ‘The reaction pattern of the Jews is characterized by almost complete lack of resistance…The documentary evidence of Jewish resistance, overt or submerged, is very slight’. Hilberg attributed this lack of resistance to the Jewish experience as a minority: “In exile, the Jews… had learned that they could avert danger and survive destruction by placating and appeasing their enemies…Thus over a period of centuries the Jews had learned that in order to survive they had to restrain from resistance”. Yad Vashem’s scholars, including Josef Melkman and Nathan Eck, did not feel that Hilberg’s characterizations of Jewish history were correct, but they also felt that by using Jewish history to explain the reaction of the Jewish community to the Holocaust, Hilberg was suggesting that some responsibility for the extent of the destruction fell on the Jews themselves, a position that they found unacceptable. The 1961 trial of Adolf Eichmann, and the subsequent publication by Hannah Arendt and Bruno Bettelheim of works that were more critical of Jewish actions during the Holocaust than Hilberg had been, inflamed the controversy. In 1967, Nathan Eck wrote a sharply critical review of Hilberg, Arendt, and Bettelheim’s claims in Yad Vashem Studies, the organization’s research journal, titled ‘Historical Research or Slander’.”

    One reason is that the mythology of the ‘uniqueness of the Holocaust’ had not yet been fully worked out. Actually, of the ‘Holocaust’ as such. Nowhere Hilberg and others used the term which popped up only in the late 60s.
    “The term Holocaust was used by historians in the 1950s as a translation of Shoah, and in 1968 the Library of Congress created a new category, “Holocaust, Jewish (1939–1945). The NBC television mini-series Holocaust (1978) is credited with having helped to popularize the term in the United States.” The biblical term shoah (שואה; also transliterated sho’ah and shoa), meaning “destruction”, became the standard Hebrew term, first used in a pamphlet in 1940, for the murder of the European Jews. That’s exactly the term used by Hilberg.
    Another reason might be that the figures given by Hilberg fall short of the sacred 6 mil.
    Another one is that he (as well as Hannah Arendt) have spoken too overtly of the collaboration of the Zionists with the Nazis.
    But probably the main reason behind the controversies is the ‘resistance’. One can consult with great profit the book of Lucien Steinberg “Not as a lamb” (translated from the French original “La Revolte des Justes”, 1970), which seems to be a first response to the development of the ‘Shoah/Holocaust’ myth. He confirms (and boasts all along) what was always known from many other sources, that a large category of Jews (left leaning or downright Communists) constituted themselves as active combatants against ‘Fascism’ and played a central role in all “Resistance” movements receiving their marching orders from the Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee (JAC, Russian: Еврейский антифашистский комитет Yevreysky antifashistsky komitet, ЕАК) organized by the Jewish Bund (labor union) leaders Henryk Erlich and Victor Alter, upon an initiative of Soviet authorities, in fall 1941 (reformed on Joseph Stalin’s order in April 1942 with the official support of the Soviet authorities. It was designed to influence international public opinion and organize political and material support for the Soviet fight against Nazi Germany, particularly from the West). Their treatment was that applied to combatant enemies, the more that they were partisans.
    One may peruse with the same profit the book of William D. Rubinstein (History/Univ. of Wales, Aberystwyth) : “The Myth of Rescue: Why the Democracies Could Not Have Saved More Jews from the Nazis”, 1997.

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    • Replies: @snag
    The main reason that the most renowned and accomplished holocaust scholar had problems with publishing his book it's because he couldn't find 6 or even 5 millions holocaust casualties that he refused to change it and that he pointed out that Yad Vashem have a list with little more than 3 million and many names were counted twice.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @tac
    :

    I merely posed a simple question: Why is that Alexandr Solzehitsyn's 200 Years Together, after almost 20 being published in his native Russian, only has it been ever fully translated into German and French, but not English.

    Yet his, Nobel Prize winning Gulag Archipelago manged to be translated to over 35 languages most of which within a span of a few years.

    I've said nothing inflammatory just a simple question and left it at that (for the reader to make his/her own determination at an obvious attempt to ban a book), which could shed some more light onto the open-thread debate posed by that taboo subject referenced here on this site, and my comments were snagged in a web of mass deletions.

    There was a tremendous amount of replies to this question, which must have triggered an email campaign by some who are afraid of an open debate to the owner of that site, who I don't blame personally, as he so often uses the usual codified euphemisms in his postings.

    Yes, that site is based in Germany and is therefore subject to its "national" laws, one that amongst other things, imprisons people simply based on "uncomfortable" -- to some -- statements about recorded history.

    So, in the end, anything that "offends" some, who are tasked with monitoring discourse on websites and then to report it back so that pressure is then put to bare at cleansing the ideas that some pose. Does truth really need suppression? (rhetorical)

    Here’s another example – Raul Hilberg and his ‘The Destruction of the European Jews’.

    Struggle for publication.

    Hilberg, unwilling to compromise, submitted the complete manuscript to several major publishing houses over the following six years, without luck. Princeton University Press turned down the manuscript, on Hannah Arendt’s advice, after quickly vetting it in a mere two weeks. After successive rejections from five prominent publishers, it finally went to press in 1961 under a minor imprint, the Chicago-based publisher, Quadrangle Books. By good fortune, a wealthy patron, Frank Petschek, a German-Czech Jew whose family coal business had suffered from the Nazi Aryanization program,[29] laid out $15,000, a substantial sum at the time, to cover the costs of a print run of 5,500 volumes,[30] of which some 1,300 copies were set aside for distribution to libraries.[13]

    Resistance to Hilberg’s work, the difficulties he encountered in finding a U.S. editor, and subsequent delays with the German edition, owed much to the Cold War atmosphere of the times. Norman Finkelstein observed,

    It is hard now to remember that the Nazi holocaust was once a taboo subject. During the early years of the Cold War, mention of the Nazi holocaust was seen as undermining the critical U.S.-West German alliance. It was airing the dirty laundry of the barely de-Nazified West German elites and thereby playing into the hands of the Soviet Union, which didn’t tire of remembering the crimes of the West German “revanchists.”[31]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raul_Hilberg

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  • @annamaria
    Thank you for leveling the field.
    Anne Appelbaum reserves a good spanking for the lack of professionalism. Guess her presstituting skills are useful for the London School of Economics, where she is a visiting Professor of Practice (?!) The sleazy self-proclaimed "historian" also runs Arena, "a project on propaganda and disinformation." She certainly has an expertise in spreading both propaganda and disinformation.
    "Applebaum has been a vocal critic of Western conduct regarding the 2014 Crimean crisis. In an article in The Washington Post on March 5, she maintained that the US and its allies should not continue to enable "the existence of a corrupt Russian regime that is destabilizing Europe," noting that the actions of Putin had violated "a series of international treaties>." -- Really? How about conducting a coup d’état in Ukraine by the representatives of the US State Dept. and CIA? As a historian she should have been better aware of the US conduct in Kosovo. In comparison, the Crimean referendum of 2014 was a perfect example of Democracy in Practice.
    Note that the scoundreless is content with the neo-Nazi flavor of the "liberated" Kievan government and she sees nothing deserving any attention in the rise of anti-semitism in Ukraine. For the Appelbaums and Kagans of our times, this is a useful anti-semitism.

    Applebaum sounds suspiciously close to Apfelbaum.
    Hirsch Apfelbaum, known under the pseudonym Grigory Yevseevich Zinoviev “one of the seven members of the first Politburo, founded in 1917 in order to manage the Bolshevik Revolution: Lenin, Zinoviev, Kamenev, Trotsky, Stalin, Sokolnikov and Bubnov. Zinoviev is best remembered as the longtime head of the Communist International and the architect of several failed attempts to transform Germany into a communist country during the early 1920s. He was in competition against Joseph Stalin who eliminated him from the Soviet political leadership in 1926″ and executed him in 1936 on charges of espionage, poisoning, sabotage and so on for belonging to the “Trotskyite-Zinovievite Terrorist Center”.

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  • @helena
    Yes indeed, native Americans in the north, not in the south of America I think. Virtually all native American males are Q haplogroup and it travelled to America with 4 female haplogroups. My guess is that one of the female haplogroups, possibly X, took the aquiline nose, and the others took East Asian noses. I think Q on its own probably had the same nose as Indo-Europeans, long straight.

    I think it would be very strange if a group of humans had emerged way back when, who had different noses. It seems far more likely that different groups of people had different noses and then the groups mixed together. By my reckoning, in order to explain all Caucasian variations requires about 4-6 variations - long straight (+ 'Greek'), short straight, aquiline (+ 'Romanian'), 'Georgian'. Georgian is the earliest 'bridged' form and can be seen on Otzi and Socrates. I call it Georgian because Otzi is G haplogroup and that is mostly only found in Georgia although it was ubiquitous across Europe early on.

    It's a minority interest, thanks for listening!

    Of interest…

    https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/science-environment-42939192?

    Curiouser and curiouser…

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    • Replies: @helena
    "about 10% of the ancestry of modern Britons comes from the early Mesolithic European population that included Cheddar Man. The remainder of modern British ancestry comes from later immigrants" wiki

    This is the one they don't want to publicise:
    http://dienekes.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/recent-radiation-of-r-m269-males-in.html

    The explosion of R-M269 descendants who (seemingly) went from zero to a solid majority in much of Western Europe over the last few thousand years is probably one of the most interesting events in recent European history. Not many would have entertained such a possibility until a few years ago, but truth is often stranger than fiction.

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  • @iffen
    We claim our identity to be a part of human history itself

    Wow! The original humans.

    No wonder y'all have so much trouble getting along with non-Muslims. :)

    The original humans.

    Yeah…depending on what one defines as “original humans”, but that’s another discussion…

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  • @Talha
    Hey iffen,

    Are you prepared to fight this out with the Mormans?
     
    If you mean who gets to say when the seal is set on the institution of Prophethood, then we don't really care to correct other religions. Either get with them or get with us, whatever makes more sense to you. We have the same issue with Ahmadis; which is why they aren't Muslim - despite their vehement claims that they are.

    You can’t really tell other people which myths they should believe.
     
    No, but, to my knowledge, Jews don't claim the the identity of Jews predates the Twelve Tribes. And certainly not going back 200,00+ years. Their identity, religious or ethnic has a point of origin in human history, which they themselves acknowledge. We claim our identity to be a part of human history itself (which is easy since ours had no relation to ethnicity):
    "Surely We have sent you with truth, as a bearer of good news and as a warner - and there was no people (ummah) without a warner having passed among them." (35:24)

    Peace.

    We claim our identity to be a part of human history itself

    Wow! The original humans.

    No wonder y’all have so much trouble getting along with non-Muslims. :)

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    • Replies: @Talha

    The original humans.
     
    Yeah...depending on what one defines as “original humans”, but that’s another discussion...
    , @Talha
    You’ll like this one...
    “A Lebanese judge ordered three Muslim young men who insulted Christianity to memorize verses from the Quran’s Al-Omran surah which glorifies Virgin Mary and Jesus Christ.”
    https://english.alarabiya.net/en/variety/2018/02/11/Lebanese-judge-orders-3-Muslims-to-memorize-Quran-verses-hailing-Mary-Jesus.html

    Ha! Love it - that is the second largest chapter - that should teach ‘em manners!

    Peace.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @iffen
    Remember, we claim all past prophets (irrespective of ethnicity) and their followers were Muslims (including the Jewish prophets [pbut]). Adam (pbuh) was a Muslim – we go as far back as humanity itself.

    Are you prepared to fight this out with the Mormans?

    But getting to the jaw bone – I think it’s fairly clear that there were no people known as “Jews” at that time frame.

    You can't really tell other people which myths they should believe.

    Hey iffen,

    Are you prepared to fight this out with the Mormans?

    If you mean who gets to say when the seal is set on the institution of Prophethood, then we don’t really care to correct other religions. Either get with them or get with us, whatever makes more sense to you. We have the same issue with Ahmadis; which is why they aren’t Muslim – despite their vehement claims that they are.

    You can’t really tell other people which myths they should believe.

    No, but, to my knowledge, Jews don’t claim the the identity of Jews predates the Twelve Tribes. And certainly not going back 200,00+ years. Their identity, religious or ethnic has a point of origin in human history, which they themselves acknowledge. We claim our identity to be a part of human history itself (which is easy since ours had no relation to ethnicity):
    “Surely We have sent you with truth, as a bearer of good news and as a warner – and there was no people (ummah) without a warner having passed among them.” (35:24)

    Peace.

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    • Replies: @iffen
    We claim our identity to be a part of human history itself

    Wow! The original humans.

    No wonder y'all have so much trouble getting along with non-Muslims. :)
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Talha
    LOL! Remember, we claim all past prophets (irrespective of ethnicity) and their followers were Muslims (including the Jewish prophets [pbut]). Adam (pbuh) was a Muslim - we go as far back as humanity itself.

    We are nothing new - we are just a restoration of the hanif (pure transcendental monotheism) tradition - everything coming full circle before the eventual plug gets pulled on the whole enterprise.
    “Verily, the parable of myself and the Prophets before me is that of a man who built a house, perfected it, and beautified it, except for the place of one brick at its cornerstone. The people walk around it and are amazed by it, and they say: 'Why is this brick not placed?' Thus, I am the brick and I am the seal of the Prophets.” - reported in Bukhari and Muslim

    Specifically the hanif tradition in the way of our father Abraham (pbuh):
    "Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but was a Hanif Muslim; and he was not of the polytheists." (3:67)

    Very tough to get a jump on us since we'll just appropriate your prophets - just how we roll.

    But getting to the jaw bone - I think it's fairly clear that there were no people known as "Jews" at that time frame.

    Peace.

    Remember, we claim all past prophets (irrespective of ethnicity) and their followers were Muslims (including the Jewish prophets [pbut]). Adam (pbuh) was a Muslim – we go as far back as humanity itself.

    Are you prepared to fight this out with the Mormans?

    But getting to the jaw bone – I think it’s fairly clear that there were no people known as “Jews” at that time frame.

    You can’t really tell other people which myths they should believe.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey iffen,

    Are you prepared to fight this out with the Mormans?
     
    If you mean who gets to say when the seal is set on the institution of Prophethood, then we don't really care to correct other religions. Either get with them or get with us, whatever makes more sense to you. We have the same issue with Ahmadis; which is why they aren't Muslim - despite their vehement claims that they are.

    You can’t really tell other people which myths they should believe.
     
    No, but, to my knowledge, Jews don't claim the the identity of Jews predates the Twelve Tribes. And certainly not going back 200,00+ years. Their identity, religious or ethnic has a point of origin in human history, which they themselves acknowledge. We claim our identity to be a part of human history itself (which is easy since ours had no relation to ethnicity):
    "Surely We have sent you with truth, as a bearer of good news and as a warner - and there was no people (ummah) without a warner having passed among them." (35:24)

    Peace.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @iffen
    ancient-jawbone-found-in-israel-rewrites-the-history-of-homo-sapiens/

    Ha! Out of Israel.

    I love it.

    Let's see you Muzzies put in a prior claim than this.

    We's all Jews now!

    LOL! Remember, we claim all past prophets (irrespective of ethnicity) and their followers were Muslims (including the Jewish prophets [pbut]). Adam (pbuh) was a Muslim – we go as far back as humanity itself.

    We are nothing new – we are just a restoration of the hanif (pure transcendental monotheism) tradition – everything coming full circle before the eventual plug gets pulled on the whole enterprise.
    “Verily, the parable of myself and the Prophets before me is that of a man who built a house, perfected it, and beautified it, except for the place of one brick at its cornerstone. The people walk around it and are amazed by it, and they say: ‘Why is this brick not placed?’ Thus, I am the brick and I am the seal of the Prophets.” – reported in Bukhari and Muslim

    Specifically the hanif tradition in the way of our father Abraham (pbuh):
    “Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but was a Hanif Muslim; and he was not of the polytheists.” (3:67)

    Very tough to get a jump on us since we’ll just appropriate your prophets – just how we roll.

    But getting to the jaw bone – I think it’s fairly clear that there were no people known as “Jews” at that time frame.

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    Remember, we claim all past prophets (irrespective of ethnicity) and their followers were Muslims (including the Jewish prophets [pbut]). Adam (pbuh) was a Muslim – we go as far back as humanity itself.

    Are you prepared to fight this out with the Mormans?

    But getting to the jaw bone – I think it’s fairly clear that there were no people known as “Jews” at that time frame.

    You can't really tell other people which myths they should believe.

    , @Seraphim
    Actually the Abraham of the Tanakh worshiped the image of the Trinity which appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre and visited his house.

    "1Now the LORD (YHVH, ὁ Θεὸς) appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, while he was sitting at the tent door in the heat of the day. 2When he lifted up his eyes and looked, behold, three men were standing opposite him; and when he saw THEM, he ran from the tent door to meet THEM and bowed himself to the earth, 3and said, "My LORD (ADON, κύριε,), if now I have found favor in your sight, please do not pass your servant by.…" (Genesis 18:2-4).
    And that is from the Hebrew text of the Tanakh which is extant and conform to the Hebrew text of the Dead Sea Scrolls. Not like the 'Ṣuḥuf ʾIbrāhīm' of the ʾAlf layla wa-layla' called the Quran, which existed only in the fervid imagination of Mahomed.

    The 'corner stone' is Jesus. The Bukhari and Muslim misappropriated Saint Paul:

    "11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, JESUS HIMSELF BEING THE CHIEF CORNER STONE; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit" (Ephesians 2:11-22).
    "Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. 7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, foretold the gospel to Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. 9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham" (Galatians 3:6-9). The faith in Christ, the faith in the Trinity.
    Can you see why Christians can't take seriously the ravings of the 'hanifs'?
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  • tac [AKA "jsb"] says:
    @RobinG
    Someone has pointed out that moonfalabama.org is based in Berlin, where German law mandates this censorship.

    I merely posed a simple question: Why is that Alexandr Solzehitsyn’s 200 Years Together, after almost 20 being published in his native Russian, only has it been ever fully translated into German and French, but not English.

    Yet his, Nobel Prize winning Gulag Archipelago manged to be translated to over 35 languages most of which within a span of a few years.

    I’ve said nothing inflammatory just a simple question and left it at that (for the reader to make his/her own determination at an obvious attempt to ban a book), which could shed some more light onto the open-thread debate posed by that taboo subject referenced here on this site, and my comments were snagged in a web of mass deletions.

    There was a tremendous amount of replies to this question, which must have triggered an email campaign by some who are afraid of an open debate to the owner of that site, who I don’t blame personally, as he so often uses the usual codified euphemisms in his postings.

    Yes, that site is based in Germany and is therefore subject to its “national” laws, one that amongst other things, imprisons people simply based on “uncomfortable” — to some — statements about recorded history.

    So, in the end, anything that “offends” some, who are tasked with monitoring discourse on websites and then to report it back so that pressure is then put to bare at cleansing the ideas that some pose. Does truth really need suppression? (rhetorical)

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    • Replies: @snag
    Here's another example - Raul Hilberg and his 'The Destruction of the European Jews'.

    Struggle for publication.

    Hilberg, unwilling to compromise, submitted the complete manuscript to several major publishing houses over the following six years, without luck. Princeton University Press turned down the manuscript, on Hannah Arendt's advice, after quickly vetting it in a mere two weeks. After successive rejections from five prominent publishers, it finally went to press in 1961 under a minor imprint, the Chicago-based publisher, Quadrangle Books. By good fortune, a wealthy patron, Frank Petschek, a German-Czech Jew whose family coal business had suffered from the Nazi Aryanization program,[29] laid out $15,000, a substantial sum at the time, to cover the costs of a print run of 5,500 volumes,[30] of which some 1,300 copies were set aside for distribution to libraries.[13]

    Resistance to Hilberg's work, the difficulties he encountered in finding a U.S. editor, and subsequent delays with the German edition, owed much to the Cold War atmosphere of the times. Norman Finkelstein observed,

    It is hard now to remember that the Nazi holocaust was once a taboo subject. During the early years of the Cold War, mention of the Nazi holocaust was seen as undermining the critical U.S.-West German alliance. It was airing the dirty laundry of the barely de-Nazified West German elites and thereby playing into the hands of the Soviet Union, which didn't tire of remembering the crimes of the West German "revanchists."[31]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raul_Hilberg
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Talha
    Hey helena,

    It’s a minority interest, thanks for listening!
     
    No problem - I definitely find these things interesting, especially since things keep changing as we discover more stuff:
    https://qz.com/1189798/an-ancient-jawbone-found-in-israel-rewrites-the-history-of-homo-sapiens/

    It's big world out there and I sometimes get amazed by how much we know maybe adjusted by what is yet to be discovered.

    I found this recent article pretty fascinating too:
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/mayan-pyramids-1.4519863

    They keep on discovering new stuff under Cairo and one wonders what's buried under New York or London too!!!

    Peace.

    ancient-jawbone-found-in-israel-rewrites-the-history-of-homo-sapiens/

    Ha! Out of Israel.

    I love it.

    Let’s see you Muzzies put in a prior claim than this.

    We’s all Jews now!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    LOL! Remember, we claim all past prophets (irrespective of ethnicity) and their followers were Muslims (including the Jewish prophets [pbut]). Adam (pbuh) was a Muslim - we go as far back as humanity itself.

    We are nothing new - we are just a restoration of the hanif (pure transcendental monotheism) tradition - everything coming full circle before the eventual plug gets pulled on the whole enterprise.
    “Verily, the parable of myself and the Prophets before me is that of a man who built a house, perfected it, and beautified it, except for the place of one brick at its cornerstone. The people walk around it and are amazed by it, and they say: 'Why is this brick not placed?' Thus, I am the brick and I am the seal of the Prophets.” - reported in Bukhari and Muslim

    Specifically the hanif tradition in the way of our father Abraham (pbuh):
    "Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but was a Hanif Muslim; and he was not of the polytheists." (3:67)

    Very tough to get a jump on us since we'll just appropriate your prophets - just how we roll.

    But getting to the jaw bone - I think it's fairly clear that there were no people known as "Jews" at that time frame.

    Peace.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @helena
    Yes indeed, native Americans in the north, not in the south of America I think. Virtually all native American males are Q haplogroup and it travelled to America with 4 female haplogroups. My guess is that one of the female haplogroups, possibly X, took the aquiline nose, and the others took East Asian noses. I think Q on its own probably had the same nose as Indo-Europeans, long straight.

    I think it would be very strange if a group of humans had emerged way back when, who had different noses. It seems far more likely that different groups of people had different noses and then the groups mixed together. By my reckoning, in order to explain all Caucasian variations requires about 4-6 variations - long straight (+ 'Greek'), short straight, aquiline (+ 'Romanian'), 'Georgian'. Georgian is the earliest 'bridged' form and can be seen on Otzi and Socrates. I call it Georgian because Otzi is G haplogroup and that is mostly only found in Georgia although it was ubiquitous across Europe early on.

    It's a minority interest, thanks for listening!

    Hey helena,

    It’s a minority interest, thanks for listening!

    No problem – I definitely find these things interesting, especially since things keep changing as we discover more stuff:

    https://qz.com/1189798/an-ancient-jawbone-found-in-israel-rewrites-the-history-of-homo-sapiens/

    It’s big world out there and I sometimes get amazed by how much we know maybe adjusted by what is yet to be discovered.

    I found this recent article pretty fascinating too:

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/mayan-pyramids-1.4519863

    They keep on discovering new stuff under Cairo and one wonders what’s buried under New York or London too!!!

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    ancient-jawbone-found-in-israel-rewrites-the-history-of-homo-sapiens/

    Ha! Out of Israel.

    I love it.

    Let's see you Muzzies put in a prior claim than this.

    We's all Jews now!

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Talha

    I-hg is thought to have travelled to Scandinavia and is considered the Norse haplogroup and J-hg is the main Arab/Jewish haplogroup
     
    Interesting...my wife (Scandinavian background) has an aquiline nose. It is also reported of the Prophet (pbuh). My kids are still young so who knows if they'll get it.

    I didn't even think of the aquiline nose having an origin - I just thought random people have it. But then, I guess you are right, you don't really see it among Asians or most Africans (maybe just the really East ones). If I remember correctly, wasn't it a mark of many Native Americans? I remember plenty of tribal chieftains depicted with it.

    Sitting Bull:
    https://www.warpaths2peacepipes.com/images/sitting-bull-farny.jpg

    Indeed fun to speculate.

    Peace.

    Yes indeed, native Americans in the north, not in the south of America I think. Virtually all native American males are Q haplogroup and it travelled to America with 4 female haplogroups. My guess is that one of the female haplogroups, possibly X, took the aquiline nose, and the others took East Asian noses. I think Q on its own probably had the same nose as Indo-Europeans, long straight.

    I think it would be very strange if a group of humans had emerged way back when, who had different noses. It seems far more likely that different groups of people had different noses and then the groups mixed together. By my reckoning, in order to explain all Caucasian variations requires about 4-6 variations – long straight (+ ‘Greek’), short straight, aquiline (+ ‘Romanian’), ‘Georgian’. Georgian is the earliest ‘bridged’ form and can be seen on Otzi and Socrates. I call it Georgian because Otzi is G haplogroup and that is mostly only found in Georgia although it was ubiquitous across Europe early on.

    It’s a minority interest, thanks for listening!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey helena,

    It’s a minority interest, thanks for listening!
     
    No problem - I definitely find these things interesting, especially since things keep changing as we discover more stuff:
    https://qz.com/1189798/an-ancient-jawbone-found-in-israel-rewrites-the-history-of-homo-sapiens/

    It's big world out there and I sometimes get amazed by how much we know maybe adjusted by what is yet to be discovered.

    I found this recent article pretty fascinating too:
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/mayan-pyramids-1.4519863

    They keep on discovering new stuff under Cairo and one wonders what's buried under New York or London too!!!

    Peace.
    , @Talha
    Of interest...
    https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/science-environment-42939192?

    Curiouser and curiouser...
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @helena
    ha! there's a lot to take in, but I'll read more as the months go by no doubt. Shah Ismail 1 looks like one of my favourite beauties, Princess Salma of Morocco - red hair, aquiline nose. I know one commenter on another site who has a pet theory that red hair starts in the Caucasus. The aquiline nose is interesting because it seems to fit with the paths of I and J haplogroups - I-hg is thought to have travelled to Scandinavia and is considered the Norse haplogroup and J-hg is the main Arab/Jewish haplogroup. So for instance, David Dimbleby, who claims Norse ancestry has the same aquiline nose as Meryl Streep and Josephus. All conjecture, but fun anyway.

    I've discovered a new beauty - Asra Nomani. How come I've only just come across her? Her calm delivery of high intellect bowled me over.

    I-hg is thought to have travelled to Scandinavia and is considered the Norse haplogroup and J-hg is the main Arab/Jewish haplogroup

    Interesting…my wife (Scandinavian background) has an aquiline nose. It is also reported of the Prophet (pbuh). My kids are still young so who knows if they’ll get it.

    I didn’t even think of the aquiline nose having an origin – I just thought random people have it. But then, I guess you are right, you don’t really see it among Asians or most Africans (maybe just the really East ones). If I remember correctly, wasn’t it a mark of many Native Americans? I remember plenty of tribal chieftains depicted with it.

    Sitting Bull:

    Indeed fun to speculate.

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @helena
    Yes indeed, native Americans in the north, not in the south of America I think. Virtually all native American males are Q haplogroup and it travelled to America with 4 female haplogroups. My guess is that one of the female haplogroups, possibly X, took the aquiline nose, and the others took East Asian noses. I think Q on its own probably had the same nose as Indo-Europeans, long straight.

    I think it would be very strange if a group of humans had emerged way back when, who had different noses. It seems far more likely that different groups of people had different noses and then the groups mixed together. By my reckoning, in order to explain all Caucasian variations requires about 4-6 variations - long straight (+ 'Greek'), short straight, aquiline (+ 'Romanian'), 'Georgian'. Georgian is the earliest 'bridged' form and can be seen on Otzi and Socrates. I call it Georgian because Otzi is G haplogroup and that is mostly only found in Georgia although it was ubiquitous across Europe early on.

    It's a minority interest, thanks for listening!
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Talha
    Yeah - and by now they definitely have some Mongol and Turkic blood in them. Also from the Caucasus, look up origins of Safavids.

    Peace.

    ha! there’s a lot to take in, but I’ll read more as the months go by no doubt. Shah Ismail 1 looks like one of my favourite beauties, Princess Salma of Morocco – red hair, aquiline nose. I know one commenter on another site who has a pet theory that red hair starts in the Caucasus. The aquiline nose is interesting because it seems to fit with the paths of I and J haplogroups – I-hg is thought to have travelled to Scandinavia and is considered the Norse haplogroup and J-hg is the main Arab/Jewish haplogroup. So for instance, David Dimbleby, who claims Norse ancestry has the same aquiline nose as Meryl Streep and Josephus. All conjecture, but fun anyway.

    I’ve discovered a new beauty – Asra Nomani. How come I’ve only just come across her? Her calm delivery of high intellect bowled me over.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha

    I-hg is thought to have travelled to Scandinavia and is considered the Norse haplogroup and J-hg is the main Arab/Jewish haplogroup
     
    Interesting...my wife (Scandinavian background) has an aquiline nose. It is also reported of the Prophet (pbuh). My kids are still young so who knows if they'll get it.

    I didn't even think of the aquiline nose having an origin - I just thought random people have it. But then, I guess you are right, you don't really see it among Asians or most Africans (maybe just the really East ones). If I remember correctly, wasn't it a mark of many Native Americans? I remember plenty of tribal chieftains depicted with it.

    Sitting Bull:
    https://www.warpaths2peacepipes.com/images/sitting-bull-farny.jpg

    Indeed fun to speculate.

    Peace.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @tac

    Try naming the Jew on moonfalabama.org. Instant censorship by the blog owner, who – surprise surprise – lives in Germany. Mention ’200 Years Together’ in the comments section of his blog, and your IP is banned.
     
    I know exactly what you are talking about on that thread. The whole conversation--that went awry-- was started by Heros--on the very subject of this thread herein, one initially presented on RI. I was the one who linked the Solzhenitsyn articles (banned) there. I hope they are of use to those who are interested, as is exemplified by one annamaria.

    Someone has pointed out that moonfalabama.org is based in Berlin, where German law mandates this censorship.

    Read More
    • Replies: @tac
    :

    I merely posed a simple question: Why is that Alexandr Solzehitsyn's 200 Years Together, after almost 20 being published in his native Russian, only has it been ever fully translated into German and French, but not English.

    Yet his, Nobel Prize winning Gulag Archipelago manged to be translated to over 35 languages most of which within a span of a few years.

    I've said nothing inflammatory just a simple question and left it at that (for the reader to make his/her own determination at an obvious attempt to ban a book), which could shed some more light onto the open-thread debate posed by that taboo subject referenced here on this site, and my comments were snagged in a web of mass deletions.

    There was a tremendous amount of replies to this question, which must have triggered an email campaign by some who are afraid of an open debate to the owner of that site, who I don't blame personally, as he so often uses the usual codified euphemisms in his postings.

    Yes, that site is based in Germany and is therefore subject to its "national" laws, one that amongst other things, imprisons people simply based on "uncomfortable" -- to some -- statements about recorded history.

    So, in the end, anything that "offends" some, who are tasked with monitoring discourse on websites and then to report it back so that pressure is then put to bare at cleansing the ideas that some pose. Does truth really need suppression? (rhetorical)

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Robert Waldmann
    If you really think that opposition to Putin is largely a Jewish phenomenon, you are completely mistaken. Putin is widely detested by people of all religions (and also agnostsics and atheists).

    As you should be able to tell from my last name, I am a gentile and I deeply despise him. The vast majority of non-Russians who have any opinion of Putin think he is a horrible person. Most also find him absurd (but we fear his weapons even if he seems to be a buffoon).

    I know he is very popular in Russia, but he is very unpopular in the rest of the world.

    I haven't noticed any correlation with Jewishness, because I have never met anyone with a favorable opinion of Putin (never not one ever).

    I assume that you will not find this comment pleasant, but inconvenient facts are better faced. A huge number of people detest the President of Russia. A tiny fraction of them are Jewish.

    sincerely yours,

    Robert Waldmann

    “As you should be able to tell from my last name, I am a gentile…”

    Comedy gold.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @helena
    Arabized-Persians [facially] (or Persianized-Arabs [mentally]).

    Whichever gene pool turns out to have alleles dominant over the other for any particular trait.

    Yeah – and by now they definitely have some Mongol and Turkic blood in them. Also from the Caucasus, look up origins of Safavids.

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @helena
    ha! there's a lot to take in, but I'll read more as the months go by no doubt. Shah Ismail 1 looks like one of my favourite beauties, Princess Salma of Morocco - red hair, aquiline nose. I know one commenter on another site who has a pet theory that red hair starts in the Caucasus. The aquiline nose is interesting because it seems to fit with the paths of I and J haplogroups - I-hg is thought to have travelled to Scandinavia and is considered the Norse haplogroup and J-hg is the main Arab/Jewish haplogroup. So for instance, David Dimbleby, who claims Norse ancestry has the same aquiline nose as Meryl Streep and Josephus. All conjecture, but fun anyway.

    I've discovered a new beauty - Asra Nomani. How come I've only just come across her? Her calm delivery of high intellect bowled me over.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Talha

    Did the Mongols or the Arabs know in their hearts that they were the inferiors of the Persians?
     
    The Mongols got absorbed eventually into the Persianate influence completely - not much of their culture remains.

    The Arabs that conquered knew, but didn't care that Persia was materially superior, in fact they saw their materialistic life-style as a corrupting and contemptuous thing. The first groups - during the Rashidun - mostly settled in garrison cities apart from the population. Many new cities like Kufa and Fustat (later to become Cairo) were established at this time. You have to remember (whether one believes it or not) these people had literally buried the man just a few years earlier that they believed was a messenger from God - and who had told them that they would conquer Byzantium and Persia. They knew that materially, they were nothing compared to the Persians, but it also didn't matter for them; a quote attributed to Umar ibn Khattab (ra) summarizes it well:
    “Verily, we were a disgraceful people and Allah honored us with Islam. If we seek honor from anything besides that with which Allah has honored us, then Allah will disgrace us.”

    Later on, the Abbasids were basically Arabized-Persians (or Persianized-Arabs) as the case may be. The culture that arose was very much the result of a symbiosis and, naturally, the Persians had a massive influence on Islam and the Arabs - but as fellow Muslims.

    One of the best and comprehensive programs on this historical phenomenon was an interview with 3 experts (Hugh Kennedy, Amira Bennison & Robert Hoyland) by BBC radio (gets into the subject around the 18 min mark):
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3457zLYJscg

    Peace.

    Arabized-Persians [facially] (or Persianized-Arabs [mentally]).

    Whichever gene pool turns out to have alleles dominant over the other for any particular trait.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Yeah - and by now they definitely have some Mongol and Turkic blood in them. Also from the Caucasus, look up origins of Safavids.

    Peace.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • “U.N. Reviews 206 Companies Over Links to Israeli Settlements:” https://www.truthdig.com/articles/u-n-reviews-206-companies-links-israeli-settlements/
    “Israel’s Ambassador to the United Nations, Danny Danon blowiates about “special” victimhood: “On the day that the U.N. is marking International Holocaust Remembrance Day, the UNHRC has chosen to publicize this information about the number of companies operating in Israel,” he said in a statement. “This is a shameful act which will serve as a stain on the UNHRC forever.”
    – It seems that the righteously-sounding Danny is not able to notice that his tribe has created a neo-Nazi junta in Ukraine. What kind of “remembrance” could he personally profess when an Israeli citizen Kolomojsky, known for his financing the murderous neo-Nazi battalions in Ukraine in order to protect his assets, remains a respectable Israeli citizen? — Guess Danny Danon does not mind “useful” neo-Nazi, particularly when big money are involved.
    The ziocon Kagans’ clan has led the coup d’etat in Kiev and, as a result of these “memorable” activities there, which were conducted hand-in-hand with Ukrainian neo-Nazis, Ukraine has become the most anti-semitic country in Europe. https://madhousenews.com/2018/01/israel-announces-ukraine-as-the-most-anti-semitic-country/
    The ziocon scoundrels, including Danny Danon, have no reverence for the victims of the WWII. They are shameless manipulators using the decent sentiments of decent people.
    The Lobby, ADL, and other Friends of Israel are totally quiet on the scandalous development in Ukraine. The International Holocaust Remembrance Day is a proper day to remember the ziocons’ collaboration with neo-Nazi in Ukraine — as well as the Israeli collaboration with ISIS agains sovereign state of Syria.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Joji Cherian
    John Bolton is not a Jew.Neither is Nickey Haley.Those non Jews in Jews' pay roles are worse

    To tell you the truth today nobody knows who’s a Jew and who’s not except themselves – Many of them changed their names some go babtised but deep inside they’re still Jews that belong to the tribe and take care of themselves and the tribe memberst first. People in Eastern Europe and former Soviet Republics are aware of this fact and hate it. 9 out of 10 so called ‘Russian oligarchs’ responsible for the heist of the century robbing Russia of $trillions are Jewish with nice Russian and Slavic names.

    https://jamestown.org/program/anti-semitism-and-the-russian-oligarchs/

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Ilyana_Rozumova
    I have to say no. And no again to this article. It is pointless to start propaganda war against Jews.
    And basically what I did say before is that not all Jews are doing mischief.

    The problem is that in every American from the birth has an embedded idea that America is the number one. Naturally this reflex is used by Zionist Globalist Jews for their own purposes.
    These purposes are plainly manifested in the US wars in Middle east.

    But things are unraveling now already. The outcome of Korean affair will be realization of US population that the arrogant I am the number one is no more axiom.

    We should leave Jews alone and concentrate strongly on fight for Peace.
    And we should realize that so far Trump is with us. He said that for him the US population welfare is the priority and not wars, That is why Zionist Globalist hate him with all their hearths and souls.
    That is why we all have to support Trump

    “And basically what I did say before is that not all Jews are doing mischief”.

    But they are irrelavant

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Mordi Berger
    Fact: I am a Zionist. Now you know one
    Fact: Rachel Maddow is not a Jew.

    John Bolton is not a Jew.Neither is Nickey Haley.Those non Jews in Jews’ pay roles are worse

    Read More
    • Replies: @snag
    To tell you the truth today nobody knows who's a Jew and who's not except themselves - Many of them changed their names some go babtised but deep inside they're still Jews that belong to the tribe and take care of themselves and the tribe memberst first. People in Eastern Europe and former Soviet Republics are aware of this fact and hate it. 9 out of 10 so called 'Russian oligarchs' responsible for the heist of the century robbing Russia of $trillions are Jewish with nice Russian and Slavic names.

    https://jamestown.org/program/anti-semitism-and-the-russian-oligarchs/

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • The Lobby’ specific logic is on full display.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @annamaria
    1. "...I am not informed." -- Then inform yourself. If you are older than 12, then you are plainly dishonest.
    2. "... the same morality..." -- Arendt said it best, "the banality of evil."
    Leave western civilization alone.

    1. “…I am not informed.” — Then inform yourself. If you are older than 12, then you are plainly dishonest.

    I only read about something if I think that it is valuable to me, it arouses my interests, or it is important and I need to be knowledgeable in the area. This doesn’t qualify.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @lavoisier
    Thank you for that.

    Most welcome- thanks for taking the time to read it.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Talha

    Did the Mongols or the Arabs know in their hearts that they were the inferiors of the Persians?
     
    The Mongols got absorbed eventually into the Persianate influence completely - not much of their culture remains.

    The Arabs that conquered knew, but didn't care that Persia was materially superior, in fact they saw their materialistic life-style as a corrupting and contemptuous thing. The first groups - during the Rashidun - mostly settled in garrison cities apart from the population. Many new cities like Kufa and Fustat (later to become Cairo) were established at this time. You have to remember (whether one believes it or not) these people had literally buried the man just a few years earlier that they believed was a messenger from God - and who had told them that they would conquer Byzantium and Persia. They knew that materially, they were nothing compared to the Persians, but it also didn't matter for them; a quote attributed to Umar ibn Khattab (ra) summarizes it well:
    “Verily, we were a disgraceful people and Allah honored us with Islam. If we seek honor from anything besides that with which Allah has honored us, then Allah will disgrace us.”

    Later on, the Abbasids were basically Arabized-Persians (or Persianized-Arabs) as the case may be. The culture that arose was very much the result of a symbiosis and, naturally, the Persians had a massive influence on Islam and the Arabs - but as fellow Muslims.

    One of the best and comprehensive programs on this historical phenomenon was an interview with 3 experts (Hugh Kennedy, Amira Bennison & Robert Hoyland) by BBC radio (gets into the subject around the 18 min mark):
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3457zLYJscg

    Peace.

    Thank you for that.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Most welcome- thanks for taking the time to read it.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @annamaria
    You are not fair toward UnzReview re "200 hundred years together" -- the book has been referenced here numerous times. You are correct that the book deserves greater exposure.

    MOST BANNED BOOK IN THE WORLD: 200 Years Together, Russian-Jewish History – Alexsandr Solzhenitsyn: http://truedemocracyparty.net/2012/05/most-banned-book-in-the-world-200-years-together-aleksandr-solzhenitsyn/
    Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, "200 Years Together, Russo-Jewish History:" http://www.mailstar.net/Solzhenitsyn-200YT.pdf
    Interview with Solzhentisyn about "200 Years Together:" http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/articles/ChukovskayaSolzhenitsyn.php?/articles/ChukovskayaSolzhenitsyn.htm
    "...there was plenty of bitterness in early reviews - moreover, judging by the rate of their appearance, you might think that this bitterness was provoked, even before the book was read to the end, by the mere fact that I had taken up the issue at all."
    https://wikispooks.com/wiki/200_Years_Together

    I wouldn’t be so sure – Read, ‘Struggle for publication’ of his monumental book ‘The Destruction of the European Jews’ in attached link.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raul_Hilberg

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    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Art
    Have heard claims that the Muslim mathematical greats were actually Persians? --- Art

    Hey Art,

    Mostly…they were the heavy lifters, but the Arabs also made a good showing too.

    Peace.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • tac [AKA "jsb"] says:

    Try naming the Jew on moonfalabama.org. Instant censorship by the blog owner, who – surprise surprise – lives in Germany. Mention ’200 Years Together’ in the comments section of his blog, and your IP is banned.

    I know exactly what you are talking about on that thread. The whole conversation–that went awry– was started by Heros–on the very subject of this thread herein, one initially presented on RI. I was the one who linked the Solzhenitsyn articles (banned) there. I hope they are of use to those who are interested, as is exemplified by one annamaria.

    Read More
    • Replies: @RobinG
    Someone has pointed out that moonfalabama.org is based in Berlin, where German law mandates this censorship.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Talha

    Did the Mongols or the Arabs know in their hearts that they were the inferiors of the Persians?
     
    The Mongols got absorbed eventually into the Persianate influence completely - not much of their culture remains.

    The Arabs that conquered knew, but didn't care that Persia was materially superior, in fact they saw their materialistic life-style as a corrupting and contemptuous thing. The first groups - during the Rashidun - mostly settled in garrison cities apart from the population. Many new cities like Kufa and Fustat (later to become Cairo) were established at this time. You have to remember (whether one believes it or not) these people had literally buried the man just a few years earlier that they believed was a messenger from God - and who had told them that they would conquer Byzantium and Persia. They knew that materially, they were nothing compared to the Persians, but it also didn't matter for them; a quote attributed to Umar ibn Khattab (ra) summarizes it well:
    “Verily, we were a disgraceful people and Allah honored us with Islam. If we seek honor from anything besides that with which Allah has honored us, then Allah will disgrace us.”

    Later on, the Abbasids were basically Arabized-Persians (or Persianized-Arabs) as the case may be. The culture that arose was very much the result of a symbiosis and, naturally, the Persians had a massive influence on Islam and the Arabs - but as fellow Muslims.

    One of the best and comprehensive programs on this historical phenomenon was an interview with 3 experts (Hugh Kennedy, Amira Bennison & Robert Hoyland) by BBC radio (gets into the subject around the 18 min mark):
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3457zLYJscg

    Peace.

    Have heard claims that the Muslim mathematical greats were actually Persians? — Art

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey Art,

    Mostly...they were the heavy lifters, but the Arabs also made a good showing too.

    Peace.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • The D.C. idiots:
    “In an act of insane escalation of provocations against Russia, Washington has produced a list of 210 top Russian government officials and important business executives who are “gangsters,” “members of Putin’s gang,” “threats,” “people deserving to be sanctioned,” or however the Western presstitutes care to explain the list. The absurd list includes the Prime Minister of Russia, the Foreign Minister, the Defense Minister, and executives of Gazprom, Rosneft, and Bank Rossiya.”
    “Washington Reaches New Heights of Insanity with the “Kremlin Report,” by Paul Craig Roberts https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2018/01/30/washington-reaches-new-heights-insanity-kremlin-report/
    “Israel wants Washington’s pressure on Russia, because Russia has so far prevented Israel’s use of the US military to create the same chaos in Syria and Iran as has been created in Iraq and Libya. Israel wants Syria and Iran destabilized because they support Hezbollah, which prevents Israel from occupying the water resources of southern Lebanon. The Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act, which requires the list, passed the House and Senate by a vote of 517-5. Normally, such unanimous foreign policy votes are associated with demands from the Israel Lobby.”

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Nomon
    It just goes to show how media 'authorities', media 'experts' and outlets, are often ignorant of the Jewish Question – or they actively obscure the truth.

    In 2014, Russia Insider stringently censored comments from readers posting factually-correct comments that detailed the Jewish Question. Say something accurate about Henry Kissinger? That's a posting ban for you, because you posted 'naughty words'.

    'The Saker' is finally edging closer to naming the Jew, but his 'AngloZionist' label is still a libellous fiction against Anglo-Saxons. It's simply Jews running the show – 99% of whom trace their ancestry back to Central and Eastern Europe.

    Try naming the Jew on moonfalabama.org. Instant censorship by the blog owner, who – surprise surprise – lives in Germany. Mention '200 Years Together' in the comments section of his blog, and your IP is banned.

    Don't get me started on Jewish alt-media hacks like Eric Zuesse, who can work the holocaust and the Nazis into almost any topic...

    You are not fair toward UnzReview re “200 hundred years together” — the book has been referenced here numerous times. You are correct that the book deserves greater exposure.

    MOST BANNED BOOK IN THE WORLD: 200 Years Together, Russian-Jewish History – Alexsandr Solzhenitsyn: http://truedemocracyparty.net/2012/05/most-banned-book-in-the-world-200-years-together-aleksandr-solzhenitsyn/
    Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, “200 Years Together, Russo-Jewish History:” http://www.mailstar.net/Solzhenitsyn-200YT.pdf
    Interview with Solzhentisyn about “200 Years Together:” http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/articles/ChukovskayaSolzhenitsyn.php?/articles/ChukovskayaSolzhenitsyn.htm
    “…there was plenty of bitterness in early reviews – moreover, judging by the rate of their appearance, you might think that this bitterness was provoked, even before the book was read to the end, by the mere fact that I had taken up the issue at all.”

    https://wikispooks.com/wiki/200_Years_Together

    Read More
    • Replies: @snag
    I wouldn't be so sure - Read, 'Struggle for publication' of his monumental book 'The Destruction of the European Jews' in attached link.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raul_Hilberg
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • It just goes to show how media ‘authorities’, media ‘experts’ and outlets, are often ignorant of the Jewish Question – or they actively obscure the truth.

    In 2014, Russia Insider stringently censored comments from readers posting factually-correct comments that detailed the Jewish Question. Say something accurate about Henry Kissinger? That’s a posting ban for you, because you posted ‘naughty words’.

    ‘The Saker’ is finally edging closer to naming the Jew, but his ‘AngloZionist’ label is still a libellous fiction against Anglo-Saxons. It’s simply Jews running the show – 99% of whom trace their ancestry back to Central and Eastern Europe.

    Try naming the Jew on moonfalabama.org. Instant censorship by the blog owner, who – surprise surprise – lives in Germany. Mention ’200 Years Together’ in the comments section of his blog, and your IP is banned.

    Don’t get me started on Jewish alt-media hacks like Eric Zuesse, who can work the holocaust and the Nazis into almost any topic…

    Read More
    • Replies: @annamaria
    You are not fair toward UnzReview re "200 hundred years together" -- the book has been referenced here numerous times. You are correct that the book deserves greater exposure.

    MOST BANNED BOOK IN THE WORLD: 200 Years Together, Russian-Jewish History – Alexsandr Solzhenitsyn: http://truedemocracyparty.net/2012/05/most-banned-book-in-the-world-200-years-together-aleksandr-solzhenitsyn/
    Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, "200 Years Together, Russo-Jewish History:" http://www.mailstar.net/Solzhenitsyn-200YT.pdf
    Interview with Solzhentisyn about "200 Years Together:" http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/articles/ChukovskayaSolzhenitsyn.php?/articles/ChukovskayaSolzhenitsyn.htm
    "...there was plenty of bitterness in early reviews - moreover, judging by the rate of their appearance, you might think that this bitterness was provoked, even before the book was read to the end, by the mere fact that I had taken up the issue at all."
    https://wikispooks.com/wiki/200_Years_Together

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • The bloody Kagans clan wants these Syrian territories by any means, even for a price of killing out the indigenous inhibitants and starting a nuclear war with Russians: http://www.moonofalabama.org
    “The lobby shop of the Kagan family, the Institute For The Study of War, had its junior staff pen an op-ed for Foxnews to argue for a new study object:
    The U.S. must rapidly change how it is executing policy in five key areas.
    1. Russian military bases. …
    2. Acceptance of Bashar al-Assad. …
    3. Syrian “de-escalation.” …
    4. The “peace” process. …
    5. Iran and al Qaeda. …
    “… solutions, couched in vague language, are for 1. nuke them, 2. kill him, 3. stop it, 4. who cares, 5. destroy ‘em all
    — Would not it be greate to apply the “solutions” to the Kagans’ Institute For The Study of War?

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @iffen

    ... in September 1951 Chancellor Konrad Adenauer of West Germany addressed his Parliament:
    “…unspeakable crimes have been committed in the name of the German people, calling for moral and material indemnity… The Federal Government are prepared, jointly with representatives of Jewry and the State of Israel…to bring about a solution of the material indemnity problem, thus easing the way to the spiritual settlement of infinite suffering.”
     
    Like I said, voluntary, 'nuff said.

    Yes, Germans have conscience. Moreover, they have created a rich and beautiful culture to share with the world. And Israelis? – nothing of this kind but imitations.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @iffen
    You mean, the reparations from Germany is a Jewish racket?

    No, I mean that if you win the war then you can put some of the other side on trial if you want.

    I am not informed on German reparations to Jews and Israel, but I am under the impression that it was something that Germany did voluntarily.


    By the way, your “most moral” Knesset

    You and I do not share the same morality, so it is of no value for you to appeal to morality in your arguments with me.

    1. “…I am not informed.” — Then inform yourself. If you are older than 12, then you are plainly dishonest.
    2. “… the same morality…” — Arendt said it best, “the banality of evil.”
    Leave western civilization alone.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    1. “…I am not informed.” — Then inform yourself. If you are older than 12, then you are plainly dishonest.

    I only read about something if I think that it is valuable to me, it arouses my interests, or it is important and I need to be knowledgeable in the area. This doesn't qualify.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @Robert Waldmann
    If you really think that opposition to Putin is largely a Jewish phenomenon, you are completely mistaken. Putin is widely detested by people of all religions (and also agnostsics and atheists).

    As you should be able to tell from my last name, I am a gentile and I deeply despise him. The vast majority of non-Russians who have any opinion of Putin think he is a horrible person. Most also find him absurd (but we fear his weapons even if he seems to be a buffoon).

    I know he is very popular in Russia, but he is very unpopular in the rest of the world.

    I haven't noticed any correlation with Jewishness, because I have never met anyone with a favorable opinion of Putin (never not one ever).

    I assume that you will not find this comment pleasant, but inconvenient facts are better faced. A huge number of people detest the President of Russia. A tiny fraction of them are Jewish.

    sincerely yours,

    Robert Waldmann

    Sie sind das Produkt der Entnazifizierung.
    Ihr Beitrag und Ihre Meinung sind daher total irelevant.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @AaronB
    K

    But I wonder whether Jews see themselves, perhaps rightly so, as barbarians conquering a superior civilization?
     
    Well, I think the barbarian attitude towards a superior civilization is both contempt for its softness, and envy for its refinement.

    Among the Jews I know, this is very much the attitude. I've heard them mock the manners and refinement of whites ( "suckers", "stupid"), while agree that whites create the best countries and cultures to live in and admire them for it.

    The Jewish attitude is deeply conflicted - it's not simple contempt, but envy and admiration are a big part of it. The attempt to destroy culture is partially founded in admiration and envy, and characteristic of barbarians I believe.

    Most Jews I know cultivate an attitude an of aggressive anti social contempt for norms and expectation - for instance, we'll enter a quiet coffee shop where refined whites are acting decorously, and they'll talk extra loud and say inappropriate things, and laugh about it afterwards, or we'll go to a restaurant with a good reputation and they'll loudly criticize it, they will dress slovenly and have poor hygiene and not care. Many rich Jews I know have shockingly dirty houses, etc.

    I kid you not. This stuff is common.

    The attitude is of a contemptuous barbarian horde. While at the same time, there is a sense that whites set the gold standard for culture, a desire for white girlfriends and cool white friends, etc.

    The barbarian attitude is a love, hate one to civilization.

    Now, to what extent do Jews think of themselves as barbarians? Much more than you would expect. I had a Jewish roommate who I flatly called a barbarian, and he laughingly agreed. He agreed also with my above characterization of Jews. He didn't care. He thought the norms of white culture wasn't conducive to his personal success (as a pirate). At the same time, he admired Germany and Sweden and yearned for a blond white girlfriend. He's wealthy now, ten years later.

    Other Jews I've discussed this behavior all agreed, but found it thrillingly transgressive and exciting, and expressed contempt for white decorum. At the same time, their deep admiration for white culture expressed itself.

    So the barbarian has an ambivalent and dual attitude - he hates and seeks to destroy civilization, chafes under its restraints, transgresses its norms in his conquering frenzy, but is dazzled and beguiled by it, and ultimately seduced by it.

    But the transformation occurs after conquest only, and the Jews have never really had a period of unrivalled supremacy. In ancient times they never managed to fully conquer Palestine even, and were soon after conquered and dispersed, after a rather poor showing in endless inglorious skimrshing with natives. Hardly the glorious supremacy promised by the warrior God of the old testament.

    Only today has the old dream of conquest - common to all ancient barbarians - come to fruition, perhaps, and only now have the conditions been set for the ancient blood lust and dream of power to be laid aside and dissolve into a gentle sleep of the passions.

    The West, too, could only lose its passionate desire for conquest after it succeeded.

    Great post!

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @lavoisier
    Very interesting and unique observation.

    But I wonder whether Jews see themselves, perhaps rightly so, as barbarians conquering a superior civilization?

    Do barbarians ever see themselves as barbarians or inferiors to those whom they have conquered ?

    Did the Mongols or the Arabs know in their hearts that they were the inferiors of the Persians?

    K

    But I wonder whether Jews see themselves, perhaps rightly so, as barbarians conquering a superior civilization?

    Well, I think the barbarian attitude towards a superior civilization is both contempt for its softness, and envy for its refinement.

    Among the Jews I know, this is very much the attitude. I’ve heard them mock the manners and refinement of whites ( “suckers”, “stupid”), while agree that whites create the best countries and cultures to live in and admire them for it.

    The Jewish attitude is deeply conflicted – it’s not simple contempt, but envy and admiration are a big part of it. The attempt to destroy culture is partially founded in admiration and envy, and characteristic of barbarians I believe.

    Most Jews I know cultivate an attitude an of aggressive anti social contempt for norms and expectation – for instance, we’ll enter a quiet coffee shop where refined whites are acting decorously, and they’ll talk extra loud and say inappropriate things, and laugh about it afterwards, or we’ll go to a restaurant with a good reputation and they’ll loudly criticize it, they will dress slovenly and have poor hygiene and not care. Many rich Jews I know have shockingly dirty houses, etc.

    I kid you not. This stuff is common.

    The attitude is of a contemptuous barbarian horde. While at the same time, there is a sense that whites set the gold standard for culture, a desire for white girlfriends and cool white friends, etc.

    The barbarian attitude is a love, hate one to civilization.

    Now, to what extent do Jews think of themselves as barbarians? Much more than you would expect. I had a Jewish roommate who I flatly called a barbarian, and he laughingly agreed. He agreed also with my above characterization of Jews. He didn’t care. He thought the norms of white culture wasn’t conducive to his personal success (as a pirate). At the same time, he admired Germany and Sweden and yearned for a blond white girlfriend. He’s wealthy now, ten years later.

    Other Jews I’ve discussed this behavior all agreed, but found it thrillingly transgressive and exciting, and expressed contempt for white decorum. At the same time, their deep admiration for white culture expressed itself.

    So the barbarian has an ambivalent and dual attitude – he hates and seeks to destroy civilization, chafes under its restraints, transgresses its norms in his conquering frenzy, but is dazzled and beguiled by it, and ultimately seduced by it.

    But the transformation occurs after conquest only, and the Jews have never really had a period of unrivalled supremacy. In ancient times they never managed to fully conquer Palestine even, and were soon after conquered and dispersed, after a rather poor showing in endless inglorious skimrshing with natives. Hardly the glorious supremacy promised by the warrior God of the old testament.

    Only today has the old dream of conquest – common to all ancient barbarians – come to fruition, perhaps, and only now have the conditions been set for the ancient blood lust and dream of power to be laid aside and dissolve into a gentle sleep of the passions.

    The West, too, could only lose its passionate desire for conquest after it succeeded.

    Read More
    • Replies: @snag
    Great post!

    https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumblarge_683/6839683.jpg
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @lavoisier
    Very interesting and unique observation.

    But I wonder whether Jews see themselves, perhaps rightly so, as barbarians conquering a superior civilization?

    Do barbarians ever see themselves as barbarians or inferiors to those whom they have conquered ?

    Did the Mongols or the Arabs know in their hearts that they were the inferiors of the Persians?

    Did the Mongols or the Arabs know in their hearts that they were the inferiors of the Persians?

    The Mongols got absorbed eventually into the Persianate influence completely – not much of their culture remains.

    The Arabs that conquered knew, but didn’t care that Persia was materially superior, in fact they saw their materialistic life-style as a corrupting and contemptuous thing. The first groups – during the Rashidun – mostly settled in garrison cities apart from the population. Many new cities like Kufa and Fustat (later to become Cairo) were established at this time. You have to remember (whether one believes it or not) these people had literally buried the man just a few years earlier that they believed was a messenger from God – and who had told them that they would conquer Byzantium and Persia. They knew that materially, they were nothing compared to the Persians, but it also didn’t matter for them; a quote attributed to Umar ibn Khattab (ra) summarizes it well:
    “Verily, we were a disgraceful people and Allah honored us with Islam. If we seek honor from anything besides that with which Allah has honored us, then Allah will disgrace us.”

    Later on, the Abbasids were basically Arabized-Persians (or Persianized-Arabs) as the case may be. The culture that arose was very much the result of a symbiosis and, naturally, the Persians had a massive influence on Islam and the Arabs – but as fellow Muslims.

    One of the best and comprehensive programs on this historical phenomenon was an interview with 3 experts (Hugh Kennedy, Amira Bennison & Robert Hoyland) by BBC radio (gets into the subject around the 18 min mark):

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art
    Have heard claims that the Muslim mathematical greats were actually Persians? --- Art
    , @lavoisier
    Thank you for that.
    , @helena
    Arabized-Persians [facially] (or Persianized-Arabs [mentally]).

    Whichever gene pool turns out to have alleles dominant over the other for any particular trait.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @AaronB
    I had an interesting vision I wanted to offer to everyone here.

    Jews are to Europeans as the Barbarians were to ancient Rome.

    The barbarian always conquers, because to be civilized means a vision of life that does not depend on force, fraud, deceit, trickery.

    But then, interestingly, the barbarian always gets conquered by the superior culture of those he conquered.

    Might not the Jew eventually be conquered by the superior culture of European civilization, which he conquered through force and fraud, like all barbarians?

    It happens every time we know of. Rome was conquered by the superior culture of Greece, the Barbarians by the culture of Rome, the Manchus by the culture of China.

    Judaism is an ancient barbarism that got frozen in amber - it never developed beyond its early stages. It is savage, fierce, and bloody, like Homer.

    It's a mistake to see the barbarian as stupid - in fact, he is typically cunning, wiley, and good at tricks.

    The civilized man in a way is "simpler" - he has less need for fraud and deceit. Consequently, his intelligence can be poured into other projects, like engineering and art.

    Both barbarians and civilized men are intelligent, but in different ways.

    To Jews, whites seem stupid because they don't practice fraud and deceit. They are not cunning, like the barbarian. To whites who bother to investigate, Jewish intelligence seems to be nothing but a bag of tricks, and Jews seem bad at original thinking, engineering, and civilization building.

    In reality, both are intelligent, but in different ways.

    I was reading an article recently in which Chinese low skilled workers in Japan describe the Japanese as stupid because they are easily cheated.

    I couldn't help but smile.

    But the real point of what I am saying is, barbarians always conquer, but then in turn always get conquered by the superior culture of those they conquered.

    Jewish domination is recent - can we expect Jews, perhaps the last of the Occidental barbarian tribes, to abandon fraud, treachery, deceit, and the desire for conquest, their rude and harsh manners, and become soft and civilized, as they adopt the superior culture of Europeans, who, of course, were themselves once barbarians, and themselves civilized by the superior culture of Rome?

    Woody Allen, in his movies, betrays a tremendous envy of and yearning for the superior polish, style, and poise of European culture.

    I know from my Jewish friends that they are deeply envious of whites in terms of style, appearance, etc, and adopt an aggressively contemptuous stance as compensation.

    Jewish culture is famously rude, harsh, aggressive, lacking style, poise, and polish, dirty, slovenly, ugly.

    But this is the mark of a barbarian tribe that is in the conquest stage - if you are on the conquest stage, the soft arts of civilization are no help to you.

    And yet, no tribe has remained in the barbarian stage after conquest. It seems to be against human nature. Humans naturally prefer the soft culture of civilized life, and are barbarians only by default and necessity.

    Maybe, then, we are seeing the last chapter in Jewish history, the chapter of redemption.

    If we can compellingly see Jews as the last of the great unpolished barbarian peoples, then maybe the final chapter in their sad history is to conquer a superior civilization and be absorbed in turn by its superior culture.

    That is why the Jewish tragedy will finally dissolve of its own accord even if none of us lift a finger, and perhaos, in a rather happy and fruitful way.

    Time is vast, the centuries roll by, and nothing stays the same. Our activities all fade into silence, and in a hundred years will seem as nothing.

    ”Barbarians” often want to be part of civilization AND NOT usurp it from the original creators.

    Who is more intelligent, a parasitic wasp or a spider*

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    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @iffen

    ... in September 1951 Chancellor Konrad Adenauer of West Germany addressed his Parliament:
    “…unspeakable crimes have been committed in the name of the German people, calling for moral and material indemnity… The Federal Government are prepared, jointly with representatives of Jewry and the State of Israel…to bring about a solution of the material indemnity problem, thus easing the way to the spiritual settlement of infinite suffering.”
     
    Like I said, voluntary, 'nuff said.

    One time compensation extorted by US government and an American Jews – You’re forgetting one detail that Israel didn’t exist during holocaust.

    Anyway, what happen to those already extorted Billions?

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    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
  • @AaronB
    I had an interesting vision I wanted to offer to everyone here.

    Jews are to Europeans as the Barbarians were to ancient Rome.

    The barbarian always conquers, because to be civilized means a vision of life that does not depend on force, fraud, deceit, trickery.

    But then, interestingly, the barbarian always gets conquered by the superior culture of those he conquered.

    Might not the Jew eventually be conquered by the superior culture of European civilization, which he conquered through force and fraud, like all barbarians?

    It happens every time we know of. Rome was conquered by the superior culture of Greece, the Barbarians by the culture of Rome, the Manchus by the culture of China.

    Judaism is an ancient barbarism that got frozen in amber - it never developed beyond its early stages. It is savage, fierce, and bloody, like Homer.

    It's a mistake to see the barbarian as stupid - in fact, he is typically cunning, wiley, and good at tricks.

    The civilized man in a way is "simpler" - he has less need for fraud and deceit. Consequently, his intelligence can be poured into other projects, like engineering and art.

    Both barbarians and civilized men are intelligent, but in different ways.

    To Jews, whites seem stupid because they don't practice fraud and deceit. They are not cunning, like the barbarian. To whites who bother to investigate, Jewish intelligence seems to be nothing but a bag of tricks, and Jews seem bad at original thinking, engineering, and civilization building.

    In reality, both are intelligent, but in different ways.

    I was reading an article recently in which Chinese low skilled workers in Japan describe the Japanese as stupid because they are easily cheated.

    I couldn't help but smile.

    But the real point of what I am saying is, barbarians always conquer, but then in turn always get conquered by the superior culture of those they conquered.

    Jewish domination is recent - can we expect Jews, perhaps the last of the Occidental barbarian tribes, to abandon fraud, treachery, deceit, and the desire for conquest, their rude and harsh manners, and become soft and civilized, as they adopt the superior culture of Europeans, who, of course, were themselves once barbarians, and themselves civilized by the superior culture of Rome?

    Woody Allen, in his movies, betrays a tremendous envy of and yearning for the superior polish, style, and poise of European culture.

    I know from my Jewish friends that they are deeply envious of whites in terms of style, appearance, etc, and adopt an aggressively contemptuous stance as compensation.

    Jewish culture is famously rude, harsh, aggressive, lacking style, poise, and polish, dirty, slovenly, ugly.

    But this is the mark of a barbarian tribe that is in the conquest stage - if you are on the conquest stage, the soft arts of civilization are no help to you.

    And yet, no tribe has remained in the barbarian stage after conquest. It seems to be against human nature. Humans naturally prefer the soft culture of civilized life, and are barbarians only by default and necessity.

    Maybe, then, we are seeing the last chapter in Jewish history, the chapter of redemption.

    If we can compellingly see Jews as the last of the great unpolished barbarian peoples, then maybe the final chapter in their sad history is to conquer a superior civilization and be absorbed in turn by its superior culture.

    That is why the Jewish tragedy will finally dissolve of its own accord even if none of us lift a finger, and perhaos, in a rather happy and fruitful way.

    Time is vast, the centuries roll by, and nothing stays the same. Our activities all fade into silence, and in a hundred years will seem as nothing.

    Very interesting and unique observation.

    But I wonder whether Jews see themselves, perhaps rightly so, as barbarians conquering a superior civilization?

    Do barbarians ever see themselves as barbarians or inferiors to those whom they have conquered ?

    Did the Mongols or the Arabs know in their hearts that they were the inferiors of the Persians?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha

    Did the Mongols or the Arabs know in their hearts that they were the inferiors of the Persians?
     
    The Mongols got absorbed eventually into the Persianate influence completely - not much of their culture remains.

    The Arabs that conquered knew, but didn't care that Persia was materially superior, in fact they saw their materialistic life-style as a corrupting and contemptuous thing. The first groups - during the Rashidun - mostly settled in garrison cities apart from the population. Many new cities like Kufa and Fustat (later to become Cairo) were established at this time. You have to remember (whether one believes it or not) these people had literally buried the man just a few years earlier that they believed was a messenger from God - and who had told them that they would conquer Byzantium and Persia. They knew that materially, they were nothing compared to the Persians, but it also didn't matter for them; a quote attributed to Umar ibn Khattab (ra) summarizes it well:
    “Verily, we were a disgraceful people and Allah honored us with Islam. If we seek honor from anything besides that with which Allah has honored us, then Allah will disgrace us.”

    Later on, the Abbasids were basically Arabized-Persians (or Persianized-Arabs) as the case may be. The culture that arose was very much the result of a symbiosis and, naturally, the Persians had a massive influence on Islam and the Arabs - but as fellow Muslims.

    One of the best and comprehensive programs on this historical phenomenon was an interview with 3 experts (Hugh Kennedy, Amira Bennison & Robert Hoyland) by BBC radio (gets into the subject around the 18 min mark):
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3457zLYJscg

    Peace.

    , @AaronB
    K

    But I wonder whether Jews see themselves, perhaps rightly so, as barbarians conquering a superior civilization?
     
    Well, I think the barbarian attitude towards a superior civilization is both contempt for its softness, and envy for its refinement.

    Among the Jews I know, this is very much the attitude. I've heard them mock the manners and refinement of whites ( "suckers", "stupid"), while agree that whites create the best countries and cultures to live in and admire them for it.

    The Jewish attitude is deeply conflicted - it's not simple contempt, but envy and admiration are a big part of it. The attempt to destroy culture is partially founded in admiration and envy, and characteristic of barbarians I believe.

    Most Jews I know cultivate an attitude an of aggressive anti social contempt for norms and expectation - for instance, we'll enter a quiet coffee shop where refined whites are acting decorously, and they'll talk extra loud and say inappropriate things, and laugh about it afterwards, or we'll go to a restaurant with a good reputation and they'll loudly criticize it, they will dress slovenly and have poor hygiene and not care. Many rich Jews I know have shockingly dirty houses, etc.

    I kid you not. This stuff is common.

    The attitude is of a contemptuous barbarian horde. While at the same time, there is a sense that whites set the gold standard for culture, a desire for white girlfriends and cool white friends, etc.

    The barbarian attitude is a love, hate one to civilization.

    Now, to what extent do Jews think of themselves as barbarians? Much more than you would expect. I had a Jewish roommate who I flatly called a barbarian, and he laughingly agreed. He agreed also with my above characterization of Jews. He didn't care. He thought the norms of white culture wasn't conducive to his personal success (as a pirate). At the same time, he admired Germany and Sweden and yearned for a blond white girlfriend. He's wealthy now, ten years later.

    Other Jews I've discussed this behavior all agreed, but found it thrillingly transgressive and exciting, and expressed contempt for white decorum. At the same time, their deep admiration for white culture expressed itself.

    So the barbarian has an ambivalent and dual attitude - he hates and seeks to destroy civilization, chafes under its restraints, transgresses its norms in his conquering frenzy, but is dazzled and beguiled by it, and ultimately seduced by it.

    But the transformation occurs after conquest only, and the Jews have never really had a period of unrivalled supremacy. In ancient times they never managed to fully conquer Palestine even, and were soon after conquered and dispersed, after a rather poor showing in endless inglorious skimrshing with natives. Hardly the glorious supremacy promised by the warrior God of the old testament.

    Only today has the old dream of conquest - common to all ancient barbarians - come to fruition, perhaps, and only now have the conditions been set for the ancient blood lust and dream of power to be laid aside and dissolve into a gentle sleep of the passions.

    The West, too, could only lose its passionate desire for conquest after it succeeded.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.