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    About a decade ago, I happened to be talking with an eminent academic scholar who had become known for his sharp criticism of Israeli policies in the Middle East and America's strong support for them. I mentioned that I myself had come to very similar conclusions some time before, and he asked when that had...
  • They say Germany conquered Holland (may 1940)
    Are they lying?

    • Replies: @Heros

    "They say Germany conquered Holland (may 1940)
    Are (((they))) lying?"
     
    That is for certain. The question is when was the last time (((they))) told the truth.

    The truth of 1940 is that Churchill wanted to mine Narvik and then take Norway and then continue to Denmark. Quisling (another good man smeared by jews) informed Hitler, who preempted the British in Norway and Denmark.

    In the meantime, France had positioned 2million soldiers on the Belgian border, and the BEF had almost another half million.

    France and England were already violating Belgian and Dutch "neutrality" with impunity by flying aircraft over the lowlands. Hilter found out about allied pressure being put on Belguim and Holland to allow the ZOG allies to march through Belgium and into the Ruhr. Again, Hitler caught wind of this attack and put an end to it.

    It is important to remember that France had already invaded Germany in the Saar in 1939, and that throughout this entire period Hitler was begging Churchill to negotiate a return to the status quo ante, but Churchill's owners, the Rothschilds, wanted war, just like today.

  • The more dangerous America’s crackpot President becomes, the saner the world believes him to be. Just look back at the initial half of his first 100 days: the crazed tweeting, the lies, the fantasies and self-regard of this misogynist leader of the Western world appalled all of us. But the moment he went to war...
  • @Sam Shama
    "Moral impeccability" or "eminence", both cheap digs, have no bearing here, but, as I wrote, rational discussion is the point. Involvement of conspiracy theories simply unmoors any and all reason.

    Yes, conspiracy is nonexistent.
    Everybody and his neighbour is just plain open and honest.
    And reasonable (of course).
    Absolutely.

  • @jilles dykstra
    I still do not see Trump as a crackpot.
    Though I'm not sure about his ideas I still hope that he will end USA militarism, not because out of moral ideas, but because he sees, and his rich friends, that pursuing the goal of USA world hegemony will, or has already, ruined the USA.

    The attack on Syria, and his warlike talk about N Korea, hogwash to confuse Deep State, and to satisfy his voters.
    The Dutch professor Laslo Maracs, university of Amsterdam, explains all this eloquently, alas only in Dutch, as far as I know.

    And my hope still is that Trump will prevent NATO and EU war on Russia, the war that indeed will end al wars, as already Wilson wanted, because this war will end all human life.
    How it then ends is well described in the novel On the Beach, Neville Shute, 1953, the New Zealand government distributing suicide pills when the radio active dust reaches the island.

    Wat is de bron van:
    What’s your source of:

    The Dutch professor Laslo Maracs, university of Amsterdam, explains all this eloquently, alas only in Dutch, as far as I know.

  • Today, 6 April 2017, marks the one hundredth anniversary of America’s entry into the First World War, probably the decisive factor in the eventual outcome of that war a year and a half later. Most schoolchildren, if they are taught anything at all about this event, hear it attributed to the German sinking of the...
  • @Beefcake the Mighty
    OK, we get it: you've moved on from WW1 atrocity stories to WW2 atrocity stories. Thanks for telling us where Hungary is, BTW.

    With “atrocity stories” you want to say it didn’t happen?

    What about those half a million people murdered by the US with napalm in the Korean War, also fiction?
    (rather actual with that Mad Trump, BTW)

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
    Not that crimes didn't happen, rather that they were exaggerated and exploited for propaganda purposes. The claimed American crimes are believable in light of the information we have, the claimed German crimes are not. Which is not to say that German crimes did not happen.
  • @From The Hague
    SERBIAN GENOCIDE
    During WWII the Independent State of Croatia was established – a puppet state of the Nazi regime, ruled by the racist, fascist “Ustaša” party. The Ustaša established a number of concentration and extermination camps, in which over 500,000 Serbians were murdered, along with tens of thousands of Jews and Roma (Gypsies).
    http://combatgenocide.org/?page_id=86

    Also in Hungary (bordering country of Croatia) the German invasion led to immense horror.

    On March 19th, 1944 Nazi Germany invaded Hungary, and the massacre of 565,000 Hungarian Jews that followed is unrivalled in the speed and ferocity with which it was carried out.
    Below are the first-hand accounts of this event from those who survived it
    https://medium.com/@azrielimemoirs/suddenly-the-shadow-fell-4ca42a36e9b1

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
    OK, we get it: you've moved on from WW1 atrocity stories to WW2 atrocity stories. Thanks for telling us where Hungary is, BTW.
  • @Beefcake the Mighty
    What about the 700K Serbs that the Germans gassed?

    SERBIAN GENOCIDE
    During WWII the Independent State of Croatia was established – a puppet state of the Nazi regime, ruled by the racist, fascist “Ustaša” party. The Ustaša established a number of concentration and extermination camps, in which over 500,000 Serbians were murdered, along with tens of thousands of Jews and Roma (Gypsies).
    http://combatgenocide.org/?page_id=86

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
    Uhh, I was referring to the atrocity stories during World War ONE. I have to say, your act is starting to wear thin.
    , @From The Hague
    Also in Hungary (bordering country of Croatia) the German invasion led to immense horror.

    On March 19th, 1944 Nazi Germany invaded Hungary, and the massacre of 565,000 Hungarian Jews that followed is unrivalled in the speed and ferocity with which it was carried out.
    Below are the first-hand accounts of this event from those who survived it
    https://medium.com/@azrielimemoirs/suddenly-the-shadow-fell-4ca42a36e9b1
  • @HdC
    If you were to look up the definition of the word "treaty", (pay particular attention to the 'willing' part) you would find that the "Treaty of Versailles" was anything but a treaty, but in fact a diktat forced upon the Germans by the threat of starvation. This after the cease fire.

    Thus the Germans were not bound by any treaty, only by the use of force until this was no longer feasible for the allies. Fact is, the British agreed, perhaps secretly, with most of Germany's post war actions.

    Your whining and moaning about what the Germans did to the poor Belgians is a little tiresome. If Germany had not proceeded through Belgium then the British would have. The secret understanding that Belgium had with Britain to allow this puts lie to the claim that Belgium was neutral.

    Civilians firing on uniformed troops is always punishable by execution. All countries at war follow this rule. And when German soldiers saw their comrades torn apart by Belgian civilians using unjacketed lead bullets, you will forgive them if they were less than nice. HdC

    If Germany had not proceeded through Belgium then the British would have.

    Pure speculation.
    That same hypocrite excuse of self-defense was used by Germany to invade sovereign states in 1939,1940 and 1941.

    when German soldiers saw their comrades torn apart by Belgian civilians using unjacketed lead bullets

    Oh, you believe an extreme variant of the franc-tireur myth (or do you have trustworthy eye-accounts?)
    Besides: Too late for whining and moaning after illegally crossing a border.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
    What about the 700K Serbs that the Germans gassed?
  • @Rurik

    Germany stalled and evaded The Treaty.
     
    this statement speaks for itself

    imbecile

    It’s true without a doubt.

    And yes, you are.

    Germany, forbidden by the Treaty of Versailles to import armaments, receives generous supplies from Sweden (where Krupp controls the armament firm of Bofors) and Holland; forbidden to export armaments, she ships to South America, the Far East, or to any European nation that will violate its own treaty by ordering from her. Yet for all the might of the Krupp works we must look elsewhere today to find the real heart of the armament business
    http://www.fredsakademiet.dk/tid/1900/1934/nye.pdf

    ILLEGAL REARMAMENT in Germany following the First World War is a classic example of the use of governmental powers to evade a disarmament agreement.
    http://www.maebrussell.com/Articles%20and%20Notes/Inspection%20For%20Disarmament.html

    • Replies: @HdC
    If you were to look up the definition of the word "treaty", (pay particular attention to the 'willing' part) you would find that the "Treaty of Versailles" was anything but a treaty, but in fact a diktat forced upon the Germans by the threat of starvation. This after the cease fire.

    Thus the Germans were not bound by any treaty, only by the use of force until this was no longer feasible for the allies. Fact is, the British agreed, perhaps secretly, with most of Germany's post war actions.

    Your whining and moaning about what the Germans did to the poor Belgians is a little tiresome. If Germany had not proceeded through Belgium then the British would have. The secret understanding that Belgium had with Britain to allow this puts lie to the claim that Belgium was neutral.

    Civilians firing on uniformed troops is always punishable by execution. All countries at war follow this rule. And when German soldiers saw their comrades torn apart by Belgian civilians using unjacketed lead bullets, you will forgive them if they were less than nice. HdC
    , @Rurik

    It’s true without a doubt.
     
    I know

    you're obviously an imbecile, and you keep coming back for more, so you're not just an imbecile, but a masochistic one at that! ;)

    pretending that Germany should have honored the terms of Versailles (which they were betrayed into [by WW] and forced to sign on the verge of mass-extinction starvation) is the same as demanding that future generations of Afghans should be held to treaties signed by men languishing in Gitmo, with tubes up their arses.

    everything having to do with that historically iniquitous treaty is a black stain upon the Allies and their apologists. It was forced on an honorable Germany by dishonorable and treacherous scoundrels. [may they all rot in hell, and may they be joined by all treacherous and lying scum ; ]

    speaking of...

    WILSON SNUBS HO CHI MINH

    Self-Determination for Europeans Only

    In 1919, a young Vietnamese nationalist named Ho Chi Minh, appeared at Versailles hoping to present the assembly with an eight-point program that would result in his country's liberation from French colonial rule. These eight points included a general amnesty for Vietnamese political prisoners, equal rights for French and Vietnamese, the abolition of courts used to persecute Vietnamese patriots, freedom of the press and of thought, freedom of association and of assembly, freedom of movement and of travel abroad, freedom to go to school and to open technical and vocational schools for the Vietnamese, substitution of the system of law for that of decrees, and appointment of a Vietnamese representative in Paris to settle questions concerning Vietnamese people's interests.

    Minh went to France from the United States, where he had lived for two years, because he had been inspired by President Wilson's call for the self-determination of peoples. While in the U.S. Minh had come to admire the American notion of liberty as expressed by men like Thomas Jefferson. Once he had arrived at Versailles, however, Ho Chi Minh was turned away. The French of course would not speak to him because of their colonial interests. But neither would Woodrow Wilson grant Minh a private audience; this despite Point V of Wilson's peace program, in which he had argued that in adjudicating colonial claims "the interests of the populations concerned must have equal weight with the equitable claims of the Government whose title is to be determined." Soon after Wilson's snub, Minh turned to the Bolshevik Government in Russia for assistance. It would be the beginning of Minh's lifelong association with Communism. Wilson's rebuff of Minh had tremendous consequences for the United States in the future as it was Vietnamese forces under Ho Chi Minh that defeated the United States in the Vietnamese War fifty years later.[23]
     
    http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/Reading/war.crimes/US/Wilson.htm
  • @L.K
    Jewish-American scholar, Paul Gottfried, has researched WWI for many years.
    Regarding England's decisive contribution in bringing about the war, he writes in his article 'How England Helped Start the Great War':

    "A vastly underexplored topic is the British government’s role in greasing the skids for World War I.[...]Supposedly the British only got involved after the Germans recklessly violated Belgian neutrality on their way to conquering “democratic“ France.

    But British Foreign Secretary Sir Edward Grey had done everything in his power to isolate the Germans and their Austro-Hungarian allies, who were justified in their concern about being surrounded by enemies. The Triple Entente, largely constructed by Grey’s government and which drew the French and Russians into a far-reaching alliance, encircled Germany and Austria with warlike foes. In July 1914 German leaders felt forced to back their Austrian allies in a war against the Serbs, who were then a Russian client state. It was clear by then that this conflict would require the Germans to fight both Russia and France.

    The German military fatalistically accepted the possibility of England entering the struggle against them. This might have happened even if the Germans had not violated Belgian soil in order to knock out the French before sending their armies eastward to deal with a massive Russian invasion. The English were anything but neutral. In the summer of 1914 their government was about to sign a military alliance with Russia calling for a joint operation against German Pomerania in case of a general war. The British had also given assurances to French foreign minister Théophile Delcassé that they would back the French and the Russians (who had been allied since 1891) if war broke out with Germany.
     
    Full article @ http://takimag.com/article/how_england_helped_start_the_great_war_paul_gottfried/print#axzz4dgTHNQ1v

    Exactly.
    The English were prepared IF war broke out.

    It did when German barbarians invaded Luxembourg and Belgium

  • @Rurik

    Germany stalled and evaded The Treaty.
    With the help of the UK and the US
     
    what are you doing here?

    no offence, but you're obviously an imbecile

    Thank you.
    I’m here to teach uninformed Americans.

    Maybe an uninformed but reasonable and interested reader (so obviously not you) can google:
    ig-farben standard oil thyssenkrupp dulles prescott bush

    For a detail, google:
    William B. Shearer 1927 Geneva Naval Conference

    • Replies: @Rurik

    Germany stalled and evaded The Treaty.
     
    this statement speaks for itself

    imbecile
  • @Rurik

    zionist Jewish leaders who infiltrated
     
    I'm not giving them a pass SC, hardly

    and insofar as they misrepresented their agenda and put on Cicero's 'traitor's' face, (I'm sure you're familiar with the quote ; ) then they deserve the fate of all traitors, no doubt.

    But consider, Bernard Baruch and Chaim Weizmann and Theodor Herzl and all the rest of these open Jews and Zionists never pretended to be anything other that what they were. Openly Jewish and openly Zionists. They never suggested that their intent was putting the American people first. Any more than I've ever heard Jared Kushner suggest he does.

    It's the guys who do say they put America first, and then betray the American people (and their oaths and all notions of human decency) to their worst enemies, for personal ambition- that I simply condemn to a deeper damnation than the openly Zionist Jews who are not really betraying anyone, but simply and openly acting in their people's own best interest, as they see them.

    There is a difference, no?

    but that’s going a little far, don’t you think?
     
    I wrote a screed once comparing John McCain to John Wayne Gacy. I made the argument that McCain was far worse. I stand by it.

    Who was the greater/greatest scoundrel, I tend toward FDR rather than Wilson: I think Wilson was a dupe; he was pretty stupid and easily played; he represents a Beta-test.
    FDR, on the other hand, participated with zionist Jews with eyes wide open, and he enabled far greater and longer-lasting treachery and human misery than almost any other man in history.
     
    Yes, Wilson was more of a dupe. That's why I sometimes compare him to that other catastrophe of mediocrity, Tsar Nicolas. But as for:

    enabled far greater and longer-lasting treachery and human misery than almost any other man in history
     
    Wilson wins that one hands down, IMHO

    Not only did he use treachery and guile to drag America into the war that would guarantee not only the starvation / enslavement of Germany, but also guaranteed the subsequent carnage of WWII. (Woodrow Wilson II), and all the injustices that followed, not least of which was the creation of Israel. (a happenstance that I don't object to in and of itself, but certainly not as it was done or is being done)

    But SC, none of these wars or horrors would have ever been possible had now Woodrow Wilson handed over control of the United States economy and wealth to the world's most greedy and domineering (Satanic) men.

    More than the wars, more than the slaughter and suffering... (which was very bad indeed!) what Wilson did by handing over the keys to America's treasury and its life blood, and guaranteeing the perpetual enslavement of not just Americans, but all of Western humanity and beyond, is an act of evil so vile as to be literally incomprehensible.

    You can't just say he didn't know what he was doing. Our founders fought wars to prevent what Wilson simply handed over, and not out in the open, but on Christmas eve, in secret, like a rat in the dark.

    Men like Charles Lindberg were telling like it was. Wilson was an intellectual, he knew what he was doing.

    The Treaty of Versailles is all his doing. His Fourteen Points were used to seduce Germany into disarming. The second world war is a direct consequence of what Wilson had done, not only because of the outrages of the Versailles treaty, but more to the point, because by then the Zionists had total power over the US, and further, because they had been given the power to print our money, and control the credit, and create depressions on a whim, which is what they did.

    Now we're all living with the consequences of that contemptible little rat's decisions to be the 'big man', and act important, as if his pathetic Fourteen Points would make him a 'great statesman' in the history books.

    I piss on his memory, and pray that if there is a hell, and it does matter how much suffering your vanity and ambitions have caused for others, that he's at the depths.

    FDR is #2 in my book, so he's certainly up there.

    The Treaty of Versailles is all his doing. His Fourteen Points were used to seduce Germany into disarming. The second world war is a direct consequence of what Wilson had done,

    ??
    No, it’s completely different.
    In all ways Germany stalled and evaded The Treaty.
    With the help of the UK and the US (who wanted a central-European power against Russia).
    France was overruled again and again.
    So Germany could arm again…

    • Replies: @Rurik

    Germany stalled and evaded The Treaty.
    With the help of the UK and the US
     
    what are you doing here?

    no offence, but you're obviously an imbecile
  • @L.K
    Hey Beefcake,
    Well, inZitatus brought it up, bc he is basically a virulent anti-German propagandist. Anything this cretin can use against the German Nation, including outright lies, he will.

    Re the Kommissarbefehl, yes, it was an order clearly in violation of international law. We should not forget though, that the Soviet Union had not signed the Geneva Convention of 1929. Germany had and was bound by it, but, in practice, it is somewhat unrealistic to expect that in such a brutal war only one side would follow the rules. Since day one of Barbarossa, the Soviets executed POWs, including wounded ones. The commissars have been determined to have been the ones chiefly responsible for the crimes and this had nothing to do with with the German commissar directive because such was not known to the Soviets during the early days of Barbarossa. The commissars were also very much involved with executions of red army soldiers. BTW, the murder of German pows did not include only NS party members, officers or Waffen SS personnel, but anyone who got captured. Hungarian, Italian and Rumanian pows were oftentimes executed as well. Not to mention extensive use of torture during interrogation.
    At any rate, the Kommissarbefehl was cancelled in May 1942 and, according to German historian Franz W. Seidler, the order had been only partially followed, having been largely ignored by the troops.

    You mention “day one of Barbarossa”.
    That day (22 june 1941) was the start of a terrible human tragedy.
    And like the start of WW1 (2 and 4 august 1914) that start was a pure German act and responsibility. Or do you see excuses?

    You can compare “day one of Barbarossa” with another day that stands for countless human tragedy: 20 march 2003
    That day the US started the hell in Iraq.

    • Replies: @Mao Cheng Ji

    pure German act and responsibility
     
    Well, going back to the guilt thingy discussed above, I'd be more careful in assigning the blame. It was the responsibility of the German elite of the time, of the Nazis, who killed, among others, a whole bunch of Germans too.

    It seems important these days, as we see a number of people who voted for Trump expecting less aggressive/more isolationist foreign policy experiencing buyers remorse. Are they responsible for the current escalation? I don't think so...
    , @L.K
    'From The Hague' == Sad Little Liar.
  • @Timur The Lame
    @ Hague,

    What kind of idiot are you to keep harping on the loss of no more than 5,000 civilians in a war that claimed 25 million casualties?

    The events that you are obsessed with are a side show of a side show. Would you care to read upon the civilian deaths in Eastern Prussia before General Francois rushed to the border?

    It's war. Get your pussy hat over it.

    Cheers-

    You are wrong about the dates.
    Germany started the war by invading Belgium.
    Only after that the Russians entered Germany.

  • @jacques sheete

    May I inform you that WW1 didn’t start in 1917.
    It started in 1914 (NOT in November).
     
    I never said it did. Neither did La Follette nor anyone else that I know about.

    I really see no further need to try and engage you in any serious manner, and since I have neither the time nor the inclination to humor you, please pardon me for ignoring you from here on out.

    You may ask yourself though, why Britain's trampling of the rights of neutral nations including those of the US, didn't lead to war against their war mongers.

    I wonder what you know about Belgium.
    It’s a part of Holland. North of Germany.

  • @jacques sheete
    He asked for foreign sources, of which Lenin is one.

    There were plenty of Americans, even at the time, who would've agreed with Lenin. It's pretty amazing that people 100 years ago saw things so clearly while a century later people still believe in abject compost.

    LaFollette's speech of April 4, 1917 is a gem and a classic. Here's a tiny sample.


    Here in history I find the real cause for this war. England would tolerate no commercial rivalry. Germany would not submit to isolation...


    La Follette's speech in the U. S. Senate against the entry of the United States into the World War, April 4, 1917

     

    And here's some from another classic.:

    The first war zone was declared by Great Britain. She gave us and the world notice of it on, the 4th day of November, 1914. The zone became effective Nov. 5, 1914. . .

    The first German war zone was declared on the 4th day of February, 1915, just three months after the British war zone was declared. Germany gave fifteen days' notice of the establishment of her zone, which became effective on the 18th day of February, 1915.

    It is unnecessary to cite authority to show that both of these orders declaring military zones were illegal and contrary to international law. It is sufficient to say that our government has officially declared both of them to be illegal and has officially protested against both of them.

    The only difference is that in the case of Germany we have persisted in our protest, while in the case of England we have submitted.


    George William Norris Opposing US Entry Into World War I 4 April 1917 Congressional Record, 65th Cong., 1st Sess., Vol. LV, pt. I, pp. 212-13.
    http://americainclass.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/antiwar-speeches.pdf

     

    May I inform you that WW1 didn’t start in 1917.
    It started in 1914 (NOT in November).

    You could read this:
    Germany invaded neutral Belgium on 4 August 1914. From the next day, civilians were executed en masse, as the invasion force advanced on its first obstacle, the ring of forts around Liège. To retaliate for the shelling from these forts, the German troops rounded up inhabitants of surrounding villages. Victims were selected and shot, those still alive being killed off with bayonets. By 8 August, nearly 850 civilians were dead. – See more at: https://www.bl.uk/world-war-one/articles/civilian-atrocities-german-1914#sthash.YFwvloKv.dpuf

  • Mark Twain:
    “Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.”

    “The point is that we need not dwell on such extreme suggestions to see much in the German occupation of Belgium worth acknowledging. Let us consider some numbers:”
    http://ww1centenary.oucs.ox.ac.uk/memoryofwar/the-rape-of-belgium-revisited/

  • @jacques sheete
    Here you go. Refute any of this.:

    World War I as Fulfillment: Power and the Intellectuals* by Murray N. Rothbard Depament of Economics, University of Nevada, Las Vegas

    https://mises.org/system/tdf/9_1_5_0.pdf?file=1&type=document

     

    Or this.

    The Myth of a Guilty Nation
    B A.J. Nock

    … "Nock makes the reader aware of the great extent to which the allied politicians continually lied to blame Germany and justify the war, or at least told stories with no regard for the truth. No wonder Hitler found British propaganda so inspiring. In fact the story at the time made it sound like Germany was trying to overrun Europe …

    "What makes this book worth reading is not whether this is the best explanation for WWI. It is worth seeing how small groups of state officials engaged in secret actions that led to a catastrophic war, and continually lied throughout the whole process to provide themselves ideological cover."

    https://mises.org/library/myth-guilty-nation
     

    Are you serious?
    If so, give me sources of non-US writers, who deal with the start of the war.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete

    If so, give me sources of non-US writers, who deal with the start of the war.
     
    Check out some of A J P Taylor's stuff (He was a Brit).

    Here's another, which is full of great and interesting perspectives.


    This desire to possess what we do not own, to get wealth by hook or by crook, is not a sentiment likely to heal the ills of humanity, especially in the West, where the love of combat is already so deeply rooted.

    -Hsu Shih-Chang , as quoted by Georges Soulie de Morant, in The Present and Future of the World, The Living Age , July 23, 1921, pp. 193-199

    -Hsu Shih-Chang was a former President of China, and a scholar and writer of distinction among his own people.

    http://www.unz.org/Pub/LivingAge-1921jul23-00193

     

    , @jacques sheete

    If so, give me sources of non-US writers, who deal with the start of the war.
     
    Here you go. I believe Trotsky and Churchill said similar things.

    The other group of belligerent nations is headed by the British and the French bourgeoisie, who are hoodwinking the working class and the toiling masses by asserting that they are waging a war for the defence of their countries, for freedom and civilisation and against German militarism and despotism. In actual fact, this bourgeoisie has long been spending thousands of millions to hire the troops of Russian tsarism, the most reactionary and barbarous monarchy in Europe, and prepare them for an attack on Germany.


    In fact, the struggle of the British and the French bourgeoisie is aimed at the seizure of the German colonies, and the ruining of a rival nation, whose economic development has been more rapid. In pursuit of this noble aim, the “advanced” “democratic” nations are helping the savage tsarist regime to still more throttle Poland, the Ukraine, etc., and more thoroughly crush the revolution in Russia.

    - V. I. Lenin From “The War and Russian Social Democracy”, November 1914

    https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1914/sep/28.htm
     
  • @jacques sheete

    Don’t lecture me on the terrible Congo-history.
     
    So lecture me on why you want to parrot century old atrocity propaganda. And don't bother employing propaganda to bolster your case, if any.

    I'll be back in a few hours.

    PS: Perhaps you've read a bit more about Twain's anti-imperialist stance? What had he to say about that? Here's a good start.

    To the Person Sitting in Darkness
    By Mark Twain


    http://xroads.virginia.edu/~drbr/sitting.html

    “century old atrocity propaganda”
    No, it seems you didn’t read this:
    ‘Rape of Belgium’: The term initially had a propaganda use but recent historiography confirms its reality.[1]

    (1)
    It was described as such in the following books:
    John Horne (2010). A Companion to World War I. John Wiley and Sons. p. 265. ISBN 978-1-4051-2386-0.
    Susan R. Grayzel (2002). Women and the First World War. Longman. p. 16. ISBN 978-0-582-41876-9.
    Nicoletta Gullace (2002). The blood of our sons: men, women, and the renegotiation of British citizenship during the Great War. Palgrave Macmillan. p. 24. ISBN 978-0-312-29446-5.
    Kimberly Jensen (2008). Mobilizing Minerva: American women in the First World War. University of Illinois Press. p. 30. ISBN 978-0-252-07496-7.
    Thomas F. Schneider (2007). “Huns” vs. “Corned beef”: representations of the other in American and German literature and film on World War I. V&R unipress GmbH. p. 32. ISBN 978-3-89971-385-5.
    Annette F. Timm; Joshua A. Sanborn (2007). Gender, sex and the shaping of modern Europe: a history from the French Revolution to the present day. Berg. p. 138. ISBN 978-1-84520-357-3.
    Joseph R. Conlin (2008). The American Past. Cengage Learning. p. 251. ISBN 978-0-495-56622-9.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete

    It was described as such in the following books:
     
    Yup. Most people still parrot the same old tired crud. In fact, I've found that the vast majority of such material written after 1950 isn't even worth laughing at.

    Nice try, but you're at UR, where people generally know a thing or two, and are especially aware of the concept that people in power lie cheat steal and murder without a second thought.

    What has you convinced that your sources are credible?
    , @Beefcake the Mighty
    "Gender, sex and the shaping of modern Europe"

    I always appreciate a book whose title immediately informs the reader that it's crap.
  • @Timur The Lame
    @ hague,

    Do you have any reputable sources for the horrible rape of Belgium? Most intelligent people and all people who value facts know by now that Wikipedia is the anti-encyclopedia when issues are political or historical and could relate even indirectly to ahem.... some groups.

    Besides. I detect a pussy hat shrillness in your prose. Maybe take a midol and move on. This is about history.

    Cheerios-

    You can start with this:
    Go to google and type these words: horror of germans in belgium
    Then do “enter” (here I see then 41.900.000 results)
    Read the first 10.

  • @jacques sheete

    The Rape of Belgium was the German mistreatment of civilians...
     
    Now tell us about the Belgian rape of the Congo. German mistreatment of civilians was nothing compared to what the other empires had been engaging in for decades.

    Blaming others for your own crimes is an old trick.

    "Blame others for your own sins."

    J. V. Stalin, Anarchism Or Socialism ? December, 1906 — January, 1907
    Blame
     

    23 1 Timaeus, while vehemently attacking Ephorus, is himself guilty of two grave faults, 2 the first being that he thus bitterly accuses others of the sins he himself is guilty of...


    POLYBIUS ,THE HISTORIES, Fragments of Book XII, VI. The Faults of Timaeus, p307
    http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/e/roman/texts/polybius/12*.html

     

    Don’t lecture me on the terrible Congo-history.
    I read Mark Twain’s:
    https://msuweb.montclair.edu/~furrg/i2l/kls.html

    But that doesn’t excuse at all that German-made WW1-hell, starting with the rape of Belgium.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete

    Don’t lecture me on the terrible Congo-history.
     
    So lecture me on why you want to parrot century old atrocity propaganda. And don't bother employing propaganda to bolster your case, if any.

    I'll be back in a few hours.

    PS: Perhaps you've read a bit more about Twain's anti-imperialist stance? What had he to say about that? Here's a good start.

    To the Person Sitting in Darkness
    By Mark Twain


    http://xroads.virginia.edu/~drbr/sitting.html

    , @jacques sheete
    Here you go. Refute any of this.:

    World War I as Fulfillment: Power and the Intellectuals* by Murray N. Rothbard Depament of Economics, University of Nevada, Las Vegas

    https://mises.org/system/tdf/9_1_5_0.pdf?file=1&type=document

     

    Or this.

    The Myth of a Guilty Nation
    B A.J. Nock

    … "Nock makes the reader aware of the great extent to which the allied politicians continually lied to blame Germany and justify the war, or at least told stories with no regard for the truth. No wonder Hitler found British propaganda so inspiring. In fact the story at the time made it sound like Germany was trying to overrun Europe …

    "What makes this book worth reading is not whether this is the best explanation for WWI. It is worth seeing how small groups of state officials engaged in secret actions that led to a catastrophic war, and continually lied throughout the whole process to provide themselves ideological cover."

    https://mises.org/library/myth-guilty-nation
     

  • The Rape of Belgium was the German mistreatment of civilians during the invasion and subsequent occupation of Belgium during World War I. The term initially had a propaganda use but recent historiography confirms its reality.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_of_Belgium

    • Replies: @jacques sheete

    The Rape of Belgium was the German mistreatment of civilians...
     
    Now tell us about the Belgian rape of the Congo. German mistreatment of civilians was nothing compared to what the other empires had been engaging in for decades.

    Blaming others for your own crimes is an old trick.

    "Blame others for your own sins."

    J. V. Stalin, Anarchism Or Socialism ? December, 1906 — January, 1907
    Blame
     

    23 1 Timaeus, while vehemently attacking Ephorus, is himself guilty of two grave faults, 2 the first being that he thus bitterly accuses others of the sins he himself is guilty of...


    POLYBIUS ,THE HISTORIES, Fragments of Book XII, VI. The Faults of Timaeus, p307
    http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/e/roman/texts/polybius/12*.html

     

    , @anon
    Even if I agree with everything you say sir, how does that make it necessary or even wise for America to go to war in April 1917?
  • Rubbish
    Germany started the war (august 2 Luxembourg, august 4 Belgium).
    Against all rules.
    And they acted as barbarians, raping and torturing and killing civilians.

    And Germany got the chance to try it again.
    Because the treaty of Versailles wasn’t applied; France stood alone.

    • Troll: jacques sheete
  • Putin's latest move I don't follow the western corporate media so I don't really know how much coverage this development has received in the West, but in Russia and the Ukraine the big news is the decision by Russia to begin recognizing official Novorussian documents such as passports, driver licenses, school and college diplomas, etc....
  • Even better, Yanukovich is still in Russia. And, from a legal point of view, you could make the case that he is still the legitimate president of the Ukraine. If the Yemeni President in exile Abdrabbuh Mansour Hadi could ask the Saudis to intervene in Yemen, why would that no be an option for Poroshenko to ask for such an intervention in the Ukraine?

    Poroshenko to ask for Russian intervention?

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Also a pity that the Saker's self indulgent carelessness or laziness extends to unsubstantiated waffle like his "from a legal point of view you could make the case that he is still the legitimate president of [the] Ukraine" and his suggestion that Yanukovich made an "official" request for Russian intervention which had legal weight.
  • As US-driven wars plummet the Muslim world ever deeper into jihadi-ridden failed state chaos, events seem to be careening toward a tipping point. Eventually, the region will become so profuse a font of terrorists and refugees, that Western popular resistance to “boots on the ground” will be overwhelmed by terror and rage. Then, the US-led...
  • @krollchem
    Zionism was dominant in America even in 1967 when Israel attacked the US Liberty killing 34 US sailors and wounding another 171. You should remember that President Johnson forbid the US Navy from counter-attacking the Israeli navy and air force to protect these US soldiers. Yes the Captain eventually received the Medal of Honor from the US Congress but President Johnson refused to personally convey this award so as not to offend the Israelis.

    The survivors who I have spoken to have been abandoned by the Zionist US political leadership. They were even threatened if they spoke of the incident. As a US veteran I cannot forgive this continuing conspiracy. I also do not understand why America has given hundreds of billions to Israel as well as providing then with weapons grade uranium.

    The American political class has been bought and paid for by radical Zionist Jews, Salafist Muslims, and Neo-Nazis in Ukraine and Central and South America. I must admit that such profane relationships provide rich rewards to the US leaders and further their globalistic ideology. Ultimately, Americans will either rebel or become serfs to the "Masters of the Universe".

    I suggest you read more of Mr Sanchez before you discard his writings, you may yet learn something.

    Here we go again.
    Are you stating that president Johnson was a puppet?
    Or are you stating that he got rich rewards?

    Oh we poor US-citizens, we are just puppets of the jews.
    Besides that, we cannot be independent, because we like those rich rewards too much.

    • Replies: @krollchem
    Do you believe the US politicians get elected because of their belief in the US Constitution?

    You should have noted that I included radical Islamists and neo-nazis to the list. For example check out Hillery's "donations" from the Saudis and Ukrainian pipeline companies.

    Politicians support the agenda of their contributors or they will not get elected again. Money talks.
  • @NoseytheDuke
    It's wearing very thin and sounds awfully tinny but the song remains the same. Are you not just shooting the messengers? Those names that keep cropping up with regards to US foreign policy blunders (regarding US interests) and war crimes, what are they again? Kristol, Pearle, Abrams, Feith, Wurmser, Wolfowitz, Nuland, Kagan, the list goes on and on.

    Surely these and others of their ilk are the individuals creating ill will towards our Jewish brethren or am I mistaken and it's actually just the obscure reasoning of people commenting here? It seems to me there are quite a lot of well reasoned points being made across this site but perhaps that's just my own obscure reasoning at work.

    More and more decent and reasonable people see what is happening to America and the ME and are voicing their disapproval. Is that not a demonstration of morality?

    It seems to me that Jews in general have it pretty good in the US, many after been taken in as refugees. What will be the outcome for most of them in time after all this meddling by this evil, determined cabal? Will the tables turn and then become pretty ugly? Isn't that a repeat of the way things went in Germany?

    I'd hate to see it happen but given that the model exists and can be seem to be being repeated, defending the indefensible makes me think that people like yourself pose the bigger threat to Jews not those discussing here what is becoming ever more self evident to ever more people who actually care about America and world peace.

    “Kristol, Pearle, Abrams, Feith, Wurmser, Wolfowitz, Nuland, Kagan, the list goes on and on.”

    So that’s how you talk away the 100% responsibility of the US, from POTUS to Pentagon to every individual US-murderer and US-chaosmaker.

    It’s a shame.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEOMchDJOus&feature=youtu.be

    • Replies: @annamaria
    "So that’s how you talk away the 100% responsibility from POTUS to Pentagon to every individual US-murderer and US-chaosmaker."

    Correct. The Israel-devoted plutocracy would not have succeeded if not the crowd of eager traitors. Cheney, Rumsfeld, Condi, Clintons and such made good gesheft on betraying the interests of the US citizenry. See how easy it was to deface the US Constitution and to loot the US treasury for the US-made war on terror and the US-made heist by omnipotent financial sector.
  • Mr. Sanchez and now also a lot of posters here just endless complain that, although the US is doing a lot of bad things all over the world, they do this to please or on order of jews (or/and Israel) and that’s why in the first place jews are to blame.
    Obscure reasoning.
    Yankee, go home.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    It's wearing very thin and sounds awfully tinny but the song remains the same. Are you not just shooting the messengers? Those names that keep cropping up with regards to US foreign policy blunders (regarding US interests) and war crimes, what are they again? Kristol, Pearle, Abrams, Feith, Wurmser, Wolfowitz, Nuland, Kagan, the list goes on and on.

    Surely these and others of their ilk are the individuals creating ill will towards our Jewish brethren or am I mistaken and it's actually just the obscure reasoning of people commenting here? It seems to me there are quite a lot of well reasoned points being made across this site but perhaps that's just my own obscure reasoning at work.

    More and more decent and reasonable people see what is happening to America and the ME and are voicing their disapproval. Is that not a demonstration of morality?

    It seems to me that Jews in general have it pretty good in the US, many after been taken in as refugees. What will be the outcome for most of them in time after all this meddling by this evil, determined cabal? Will the tables turn and then become pretty ugly? Isn't that a repeat of the way things went in Germany?

    I'd hate to see it happen but given that the model exists and can be seem to be being repeated, defending the indefensible makes me think that people like yourself pose the bigger threat to Jews not those discussing here what is becoming ever more self evident to ever more people who actually care about America and world peace.
    , @krollchem
    Zionism was dominant in America even in 1967 when Israel attacked the US Liberty killing 34 US sailors and wounding another 171. You should remember that President Johnson forbid the US Navy from counter-attacking the Israeli navy and air force to protect these US soldiers. Yes the Captain eventually received the Medal of Honor from the US Congress but President Johnson refused to personally convey this award so as not to offend the Israelis.

    The survivors who I have spoken to have been abandoned by the Zionist US political leadership. They were even threatened if they spoke of the incident. As a US veteran I cannot forgive this continuing conspiracy. I also do not understand why America has given hundreds of billions to Israel as well as providing then with weapons grade uranium.

    The American political class has been bought and paid for by radical Zionist Jews, Salafist Muslims, and Neo-Nazis in Ukraine and Central and South America. I must admit that such profane relationships provide rich rewards to the US leaders and further their globalistic ideology. Ultimately, Americans will either rebel or become serfs to the "Masters of the Universe".

    I suggest you read more of Mr Sanchez before you discard his writings, you may yet learn something.
  • US is Americanizing the World.
    And those US-hypocrites keep pointing to Jew and/or Israel.
    No Dan Sanchez (Auburn, Alabama), the world is a US-made-mess.
    Yankee, GO HOME.

  • The next American president will almost certainly be bought and paid for by the Israel Lobby. Hillary Clinton has already declared that that when she is elected president she intends to take relations with Israel “to the next level” and has also promised to invite Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to visit on her very first...
  • Give peace a change.
    Yankee, go home.

    US-citizens are obliged to the world to end this US-made-mess.
    The US-military must be stopped.
    Trump is the only hope.

  • As Russia and Asia move to circumvent the stranglehold of an aging, U.S. dominated international financial and legal system with its promise of endless austerity and privatization by foreign investors, the IMF and World Bank double-down by making it more difficult for them to transact business and administer credit. A nightmare scenario of U.S. geopolitical...
  • Ok, I messed up two decisions, sorry

    The International Monetary Fund (IMF) made two important decisions recently. First, the IMF issued a new policy that allows the IMF, in certain circumstances, to provide financing to a country even when it has outstanding arrears to official bilateral creditors. Second, the IMF ruled that Ukrainian bonds purchased by the Russian government to help the Yanukovych government is bilateral intergovernmental debt.
    http://voxukraine.org/2015/12/21/imf-ukraine-and-russia-a-love-triangle-en/

  • @ Regnum Nostrum

    YES, IMF didn’t change.
    SO, Ukraine has a lost case.

    • Replies: @jjc
    The Hudson article is not outdated or obsolete, and certainly not through information featured in stories written days before his own. The IMF policy change, as described by the author, has occurred and Ukraine will continue to be in the IMF program.
    , @Regnum Nostrum
    I would not be so sure. Read the section of this article headed "Countering Russia’s ability to collect in Britain’s law courts."
  • This article from Michael Hudson is dated, obsolete.
    I give you 2 sources:

    The executive board of the International Monetary Fund has recognized Ukraine’s $3 billion debt to Russia as official and sovereign – a status Kiev has been attempting to contest. Russia is to sue Ukraine if it fails to pay by the December 20 deadline
    https://www.rt.com/business/326167-imf-ukraine-debt-russia-sovereign/

    Russia apparently is not always blowing smoke. Sometimes they’re actually telling it like it is.

    The International Monetary Fund said on Wednesday that the $3 billion Russia loaned to Ukraine in 2013 was indeed an intergovernmental loan and not a private one as Kyiv contests. The Ukrainian government argued that Russia’s loan came from their National Wealth Fund and not directly from the Russian government and should therefore not be part of the IMF rules that require Ukraine to make good on sovereign debts as part of its bailout package.

    The IMF agreed with the Russian government today, stating that Russia could not loan the money directly from the Russian budget because it was not allocated to do so at the time. Back in 2013, the Russia friendly Viktor Yanukovych was in power. He was ousted through extra legal means in the Euromaidan protests in February of 2014 and replaced by Washington’s handpicked successor Arseniy “Yats” Yatsenyuk. The IMF said that the money from the Russian sovereign wealth fund constituted government funds and was therefore a sovereign credit, as the Russian government declared.
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2015/12/16/imf-says-russia-right-about-ukraine-3-billion-loan/

    • Replies: @Zone Eater
    Damn, thanks for the update! One more reason the comments section at Unz is often better than the totality of MSM narrative-shaping!
    , @Regnum Nostrum
    That changes nothing. Ukraine still refuses to repay the debt. Today Medvedev has ordered the government to prepare legal action against Ukraine. It will be interesting to see how that legal action plays out.
  • Would you be willing to defend your country against a foreign invasion? That’s all Putin is doing in Syria. He’s just preempting the tidal wave of jihadis that’ll be coming his way once the current fracas is over. He figures it’s better to exterminate these US-backed maniacs in Syria now than face them in Chechnya,...
  • @unvote
    I am not surprised to meet such a furious reaction on my words like yours as well as such incompetent "explanation" of the state of affairs in Donbass. It is only going to demonstarte how far from reality is your vision of things, which is obviously not coming from your own personal experience and isn't based on the real facts. And you admitted this by saying you are not actually Russian. Even so, besides of that you are not familiar with the life of people in Donbass, you are still demonstrating absolute lack of critical thinking. Somehow your views perfectly fall in the "official versions". Which means you are only a MSM's client. This alone is enough to consider your statements as unreliable, or arguable at the very least.

    Whereas I am a Russian, and I have my relatives and friends living right now in the struggling Donbass. See the difference now between you and me, between YOUR version and the true one? I am a first hand source of information whereas you are definitely not. And therefore I recommend everyone who is reading your comments to take in account this fact.

    P.S. And don't try to insult me personally. That only shows how weak your arguments are. The truth will shine eventually.

    unvote, I am wondering:
    A lot of people from Donbass fled to Russia.
    Including tens or hundreds of thousands of able-bodied men.
    My question:
    Are those men returning, to defend their home-region?

    • Replies: @unvote
    Well, I surely can hear the sarcasm in your question. My answer will be clear. From the very beginning and to this day the entire civil uprising in Donbass regions involves the local men and women of very different ages, professions and social status. Even the teenagers there took the arms. There are moms along with their sons fighting side by side. They defend their homes, their families, their property and certainly their lives. All of them are the residents of Donbass region, generally they are the ordinary civilians - mostly the mine workers, drivers, etc. Besides, even the businessmen, teachers, artists and scientists have filled the militia units as well. Most of them have never made a single shot in their life. But they are learning quickly...because they just have to. They have no other choice. Vast majority of these people have nowhere else to go. Lots of of them just don't want to leave their homes and let the invaders pillage there. And most of all they want Ukraine to get off back and then the peace would return.

    Some part of their militia includes the volunteers from Russian Federation who deliberately arrived to support the pro-Russian Donbass in their fight against the attacking Ukrainian army, Nazi battalions, Right Sector, etc. Many of these volunteers from Russia have their parents or other relatives living in Donbass, so it is absolutely natural that they rushed to defend them. Quite a lot of these defenders from Russia are not even ethnic Russians but even so, they joined the fight against Nazi regime and its ruthless aggressors. Some part of their new army were the volunteers from other countries - from Serbia, Spain, France, Latvia, Germany and even from the United States.

    The refugeers who fled to Russia were mainly the families with children, old people, disabled people and those who have their another house and job in Russia. Some number of the healthy adult men have fled too, indeed. Most of them were the fathers of new born babies and of the children under 5 years old, whose mothers could not bear all the hardships on their own. That is how the reality dictated these men to act. And there is nothing for these men to be ashamed of. They protect their beloved ones. Some number of them returned to Donbass to take a fight, after they made sure that their families could safely settle somewhere in Russia and been provided with help.

    Other part of the men from Donbass have never returned home and each of them has his own reasons for such decision. I believe that some of them are just the cowards or indifferent people who only care about their own skin. I can tell you even more. There are those as well who have chosen to become the traitors of their own fellow citizens, friends, сolleagues and neighbors, who collected and delivered their personal data to Ukrainian police. The reported people have been then arrested, jailed, tortured and killed, hundreds of them disappeared without any trace... There were the ones who corrected the fire of the Ukrainian artillery by giving them exact coordinates and positions of not only the military but even the civilian objects to be shelled - schools, hospitals, residential buildings...These people bear the same responsibility of the murderers of innocent people as do the ones to whom they served.

    Still, such a local traitors remain to be the sporadic cases. Good people prevail of course. The majority of people in Donbass are truly the real heroes and the power of their spirit to survive in such deadly circumstances causes only deepest respect and admiration. Being good or bad has nothing to do with the nationality, residence, age or gender. As everywhere else, there are good and bad people. The motivation to act as a scoundrel is always individual, depending on the kind of worthless character and absolute absence of tabooes and any moral restraints of a certain person.