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Some in Hong Kong Feel Frustrated, as Their City Is Losing to Mainland China
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Hong Kong is losing to Mainland China. Its poverty rates are high, it suffers from corruption and savage capitalism. It is now the most expensive city on earth. People are frustrated, but paradoxically, they are blaming socialist Beijing for their problems, instead of the legacy of British colonialism. ‘Across the line’, Shenzhen, Shanghai, Beijing, Xiang and other cities are leaving Hong Kong behind in almost all fields.

When my dear friend and a great concert pianist from Beijing, Yuan Sheng, used to live in New York, recording, giving concert and teaching at prestigious Manhattan School of Music, he told me that he used to cry at night: “In the United States, they smear China. I felt hurt, defenseless”.

He returned to Beijing, gave back his Green Card and began teaching at Beijing Conservatory. He never regretted his decision. “Beijing is much more exciting than New York, these days”, he told me.

It is obvious that Beijing is booming: intellectually, artistically; in fact, in all fields of life.

Yuan’s friend, who returned from London and became a curator at the iconic “Big Egg” (the biggest opera house on earth), shared her thoughts with me:

“I used to sit in London, frustrated, dreaming about all those great musicians, all over the world. Now, they come to me. All of them want to perform in Beijing. This city can make you or break you. Without being hyperbolic, this is now one of the most important places on earth. Just under one roof, in one single night, we can have a Russian opera company performing in our big halls, in another one there is a Chinese opera, and a Bolivian folklore ensemble in a recital hall. And this is only one of Beijing’s theatres.”

When the Chinese artists and thinkers are fighting for the prime with their Western counterparts, it is usually Beijing, Shanghai and Shenzhen, ‘against’ London, Paris and New York. Hong Kong is ‘somewhere there’, behind, suddenly a backwater.

While Hong Kong University and the City University of Hong Kong used to be the best in China, many Mainland institutions of higher learning, including Peking University and Tsinghua, are now producing many more cutting-edge creative thinkers. I spoke at all of these schools, and can confirm that the young people in Beijing and Shanghai are extremely hardworking, endlessly curious, while in Hong Kong, there is always that mildly arrogant air of exceptionalism, and lack of discipline.

It used to be that the so-called “Sea Turtles” (students who went abroad and to Hong Kong, and then returned to Mainland China), were treated like celebrities, but now, it is much easier to get a job with the Mainland China’s diplomas.

Recently, while filming the riots in Hong Kong, I was told by a receptionist at one of the major shopping plazas:

“We do not treat visitors from Mainland China well. And, they lost interest in Hong Kong. Before, they used to come here, to admire out wealth. Now, most of them are avoiding this place. What we have, they have, too, and often better. If they travel, they rather go to Bangkok or Paris.”

These days, the contrast between Xiang, Shanghai, Beijing and Hong Kong is shocking. Mainland infrastructure is incomparably better. Public areas are vast, and cultural life much more advanced than that in a former British colony.

While the Mainland Chinese cities have almost no extreme poverty, (and by the end of 2020 will have zero), in Hong Kong, at least 20% are poor, and many simply cannot afford to live in their own city. Hong Kong is the most expensive place on earth. Just to park a car in could easily cost over US$700 per month, for just working hours. Tiny apartments cost over a million US dollars. Salaries in Hong Kong, however, are not higher than those in London, Paris or Tokyo.

The city is run by an extreme capitalist system, ‘planned’ by corrupt tycoons/developers. The obsolete British legal system here is clearly geared to protect the rich, not the majority. That was essentially why the “Extradition Bill” was proposed: to protect Hong Kong inhabitants from the unbridled, untouchable, as well as unelected de facto rulers.

But there is this ‘deal’, negotiated before Hong Kong was returned where it belongs, which is – to China. “One country, two systems”. It is an excellent contract for the turbo-capitalist magnates, and for the pro-Western “activists”. And it is extremely bad one for the average people of Hong Kong. Therefore, after months of riots sponsored by the West, the Hong Kong administration scrambled the bill.

 

Young hooligans know very little about their city. I talked to them, extensively, during their first anti-Beijing riots in 2014 (so-called “Umbrella Revolution”).

Correctly, then and now they have been frustrated about the declining standards of living, about the difficulties to get well-paid jobs and find affordable housing. They told me that ‘there is no future for them’, and that ‘their lives are going nowhere’.

Misery in Outer Islands of Hong Kong
Misery in Outer Islands of Hong Kong

But quickly, their logic would collapse. While realizing what tremendous progress, optimism and zeal could be observed in the People’s Republic of China, under the leadership of the Communist Party, they would still be demanding more capitalism, which is actually ruining their territory. In 2014, and now, they are readily smearing the Communist Party.

Being raised on the shallow values of selfishness and egotism, they are now betrayed their own country, and began treasonous campaigns, urging foreign powers, including US and UK, to “liberate them”. All for just fleeting moment of fame, for a “selfie uprising”.

To liberate from whom? China does not, (unfortunately for Hong Kong), interfere in Hong Kong’s economic and social affairs. If anything, it builds new infrastructure, like an enormous bridge now connecting Hong Kong with Macau (a former Portuguese colony) and a high-speed train system, linking Hong Kong with several cities in Mainland China.

More restrain Beijing shows, more it gets condemned by the rioters and Western media, for ‘brutality’. More subway stations and public property get destroyed by rioters, more sympatry flows for them from the German, US and British right-wing politicians.

 

For decades, the British colonialists were humiliating people of Hong Kong, while simultaneously turning their city into a brutal, and by the Asian standards, ruthless and fully business oriented megapolis. Now people are confused and frustrated. Many are asking, who they really are?

For Hong Kong, this is a difficult moment of soul-searching.

ORDER IT NOW

Even those who want to “go back to UK”, can hardly speak English. When asked “why do they riot”, they mumble something about ‘democracy’ and ‘freedom’ in the West, plus ‘evilness of Beijing’. Brochures of some obscure, extremist Japanese religious cults get distributed. It is one big intellectual chaos. Rioters know nothing about Syria, Afghanistan, Venezuela, countries which are being ruined by the West.

Leaders like Joshua Wong are proudly colluding with the Western embassies. To praise Chinese socialism publicly is now dangerous – people get beaten by the “pro-democracy” rioters, for such “crimes”.

Highly educated and overly-polite Singapore is literally sucking out hundreds of foreign companies from Hong Kong. Its people speak both English and Mandarin. In Hong Kong, great majority speaks only Cantonese. Many foreigners are also relocating to Shanghai. Not only big businesses: Shanghai is now full of European waiters.

Even tourism is down in Hong Kong, by 40%, according to the recent data.

Absurdly: the rioters want precisely what the Communist Party of China is providing: they want real struggle against corruption, as well as determined attempt to solve housing crises, create new jobs, and provide more public services. They want better education, and generally better life. They want “Shanghai or Beijing”, but they say that they want to be a colony of the UK, or a dependency of the USA.

They loosely define communist goals, and then they shout that they are against Communism.

 

China is now ready to celebrate its 70th Anniversary of the Founding of The People’s Republic of China.

Clearly, the West is using Hong Kong to spoil this great moment.

After leaving Hong Kong, in Shanghai, I visited a brilliant, socialist realism exhibition at the iconic, monumental China Art Museum. Country under the leadership of President Xi is once again confident, revolutionary and increasingly socialist; to horror of declining West. It is a proud nation with great, elegant cities constructed by the people, for the people, and with progressively ecological countryside. Its scientific, intellectual and social achievements speak louder than words.

Contrast between Hong Kong and Shanghai is tremendous, and growing.

But do not get me wrong: I like Hong Kong. I have more than 20 years of history with that old, neurotic and spoiled lady. I can feel her pulse. I love old trams and ferries, and out-of-the-way islands.

But Hong Kong’s charm lies in its decay.

Mainland China’s beauty is fresh. China is one of the oldest cultures on earth, one of the deepest. But it feels crisp, full of hope and positive energy. Together with its closest ally, Russia, it is now working and fighting for the entire world; it is not selfish.

Hong Kong is fighting only for its vaguely defined uniqueness. Actually, it is not Hong Kong that is fighting, as most of people there want to be where they truly belong – in their beloved nation – China. It is a gang of kids with their face-masks that is fighting. In brief: a relatively big group of pro-Western extremists, whose leaders are putting their fame above the interests of the people.

 

Hong Kong has no “Big Egg”; no famous theatre where the greatest musicians are stunning the world. Its only art museum is closed for reconstruction, for years, and will re-open only at the end of 2019. Its cultural life is shallow, even laughable, for the place which is branding itself as the “Asia’s World City”. There are no great discoveries made here. It is all business. Big, big business. And creeping decay.

Beijing could ‘liberate’ Hong Kong, easily; to give it purpose, pride and future.

But young hooligans want to be liberated by Washington, instead. They want to be re-colonized by London. And they do not consult their fellow citizens. That clearly reflects their idea about ‘democracy’. Not the “rule of the people”, but the “rule of the West”.

Not only they feel spite for their country, but they also scorn and intimidate their fellow citizens who just want to have their meaningful life, based on the Chinese values.

 

[First published by NEO – New Eastern Outlook – A journal of Russian Academy of Sciences]

Andre Vltchek is a philosopher, novelist, filmmaker and investigative journalist. He has covered wars and conflicts in dozens of countries. Four of his latest books are Revolutionary Optimism, Western Nihilism, a revolutionary novel “Aurora” and a bestselling work of political non-fiction: “Exposing Lies Of The Empire”. View his other books here. Watch Rwanda Gambit, his groundbreaking documentary about Rwanda and DRCongo and his film/dialogue with Noam Chomsky “On Western Terrorism”. Vltchek presently resides in East Asia and the Middle East, and continues to work around the world. He can be reached through his website and his Twitter. His Patreon

 
• Category: Economics, Foreign Policy • Tags: China, Hong Kong 
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  1. nsa says:

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    • Replies: @Jack_Garbo
  2. peterike says:

    Yuan Sheng, used to live in New York… He returned to Beijing, gave back his Green Card and began teaching at Beijing Conservatory. He never regretted his decision.

    Oh yeah? Well about a million or so of his fellow countrymen seem to like New York just fine, and more arrive every day. Can you please ask Yuan to invite them all back home? They are steadily ruining what’s left of New York City, and we don’t need a single one of them.

  3. The conflict between HK and mainland China is absolutely none of the U.S.’s business.

    • Replies: @Amon
  4. US democracy has always been dollar democracy – my dollar buys what your dollar buys. Unfortunately, it has been spread everywhere. The fact that lobby groups are even allowed to exist in “Western liberal democracies” is an indication of shallow the cries of “democracy” and “freedom” are.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  5. A123 says:

    China Killed the Goose that Laid the Golden Egg

    The situation is 90% mainland China’s fault. They intentionally and with malice of forethought drove the UK out by refusing to extend the Kowloon territorial lease. The biggest revenue sources for HK pre-handover were international trade and banking. These businesses were largely driven by the stable UK supervised & structured contract law.

    Without reliable and trustworthy law to protect contracts, new business went to other locations such as Singapore. To keep HK’ s economy going, the mainland central planners needed to insert an entire new industry into the area to make up for the lost international business revenue. However, China ‘central command’ failed to make up for the revenue shortfall they intentionally created.

    National egomania was the only reason why the PRC government was unwilling to come to a reasonable arrangement with the UK. And, now the Chinese government is paying the price for its folly.

    _____

    Of course the problem is not inherently a Chinese one… It is endemic wherever elites value themselves over the people. Sometimes history repeats itself quite quickly.

    Globalist egomania is the only reason why the central EU Commission is unwilling to come to a reasonable BREXIT arrangement with the UK. And, soon the EU government will have to pay the price for its folly.

    PEACE 😇

  6. he told me that he used to cry at night: “In the United States, they smear China. I felt hurt, defenseless”.

    Yellow Peril in the US is instigated by Jews who want to divert American attention from Jewish power.
    And it’s the favored subject of cucks who are too afraid to say anything critical about Jews, blacks, and homos. So, they rag on Muslims, Russians, and Chinese. Alex Jones is funniest in this regard. He got booted off platforms by Jews, but all he whines about is China.

    Still, cry at night over that? What a pooter-boy. Besides, China is not foreign to bashing other nations… like blaming Japan over and over and over for past history.

    “Beijing is much more exciting than New York, these days”, he told me.
    It is obvious that Beijing is booming: intellectually, artistically; in fact, in all fields of life.

    I’m sure Beijing has made great progress in many areas, but WHAT CULTURAL OR INTELLECTUAL FLOWERING? Especially under a rotten system of social credit system.

    That said, China should not look to the West. While I can support a truly Liberal West, the current West is anything but truly liberal. It is illiberal and censorious, and its sham ‘liberal values’ are just a front for Jewish Supremacist Power or JSP.
    Just see how far you get in politics or culture in the US by speaking up for Palestinians. Or being fair-minded about Russia. Or refusing to believe that a fat man with a wig is a ‘woman’.

    • Replies: @Richard B
  7. Amon says:
    @Longfisher

    The conflict between HK and mainland China is absolutely the result of US government meddling and the chaos unfolding is thus the business of the US people.

    Frankly I am utterly surprised by how many people fail to see the logical flaw in demanding freedom and democracy for Hong Kong when it is already a self ruled city with a democratic election system and a capitalist free market.

  8. Ronnie says:

    You have mentioned Xiang several times – do you mean Xian ?

  9. SOL says:

    More pro-China garbage from Unz.com? Is this supposed to reflect the viewpoint of the owner?

    • Replies: @Biff
    , @foolisholdman
  10. SOL says:
    @A123

    Do you have any references for readers who would like to know more about this point of HK history?

    • Replies: @A123
  11. Erebus says:
    @A123

    You’ve no idea what you’re talking about. There isn’t a single true statement in your entire post until after the page break.

    The real problem is that China agreed to leave HK in the hands of its elites, and its elites screwed it. They had long had to take 2nd position at the trough after the Brits, and dove in head first when the UK withdrew.

    That goose that laid golden eggs for 100yrs for the UK, started laying eggs for them. Their only interest lay in getting as many eggs out of that goose as it could crank out before 2047. They had no interest in anything else. In the event, they exhausted it 28 years before its time.

    HK’s only hope is to lose its ressentiment and cultural chauvinism and integrate its economy with the Pearl River Delta juggernaut. It ain’t alone anymore, and the relative value of what it brings to the table just isn’t what it was 20 yrs ago. There’s been a sea change and it will have to redefine itself if it’s gonna survive as something more than an anachronism in the new reality.

    Its people are in serious need of an attitude adjustment, and its elites have to get their heads around the notion that their greed served to put them back into 2nd place. So far, neither has shown signs of doing that, or even an awareness of the need to do it.

    • Agree: Biff
    • Replies: @kauchai
  12. A123 says:
    @SOL

    More personal experience than deep reference material.

    The UK owned Hong Kong Island outright, but additional land was needed for growth. The solution was the New Territories (Kowloon) lease.

    This quote captures the essence of how the seeds of future discord were planted (1):

    In formal terms the answer lies in the second Convention of Peking, signed on 9 June 1898. The ailing Qing Dynasty leased the New Territories to Britain for 99 years, starting 1 July 1898. The new additions were to make up 90 per cent of Hong Kong’s land mass. The term of 99 years was fixed almost casually. Both sides believed the new lands would remain British for ever, along with the original colonial possession of Hong Kong island, acquired in 1842. The British empire would never die.

    When the lease renewal was coming up, the PRC government would not extend it at any price. Critical infrastructure had been built on the leased land including the main airport, electric power plants, etc. There was no way to make Hong Kong Island self sufficient without facilities in Kowloon.

    The UK was left with two options:

    — Risk a war with a nuclear power in an attempt to keep Kowloon.
    — Or, give everything back as Hong Kong Island was not viable by itself.

    The UK did make life difficult for China by introducing a new Basic Law democracy a few years before they left. This democracy was promptly rewritten by the PRC after the handover and effectively quashed. However, the people of Hong Kong did have a true democracy, albeit briefly.

    The ultimate sanction against the handover was publicly discussed, but never deployed. Giving every HK resident a full UK passport. This would have allowed 3-4 million of Hong Kong’s 6 million people to flee before Communist rule came in.

    — How much of this was self interest? The UK couldn’t suddenly absorb 4MM people.
    — Is it because the UK wanted to preserve some civility with the PRC?
    — Certainly there was fear that China would pre-emptively invade to prevent the public rebuke of mass depopulation.
    ____

    What is undeniable, is that the PRC government forced the issue by refusing to negotiate new lease. And thus, they own the results of their intransigence.

    PEACE 😇

    ____

    (1) https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/a-lease-no-one-thought-would-run-out-1281384.html

    • Troll: Parfois1, d dan
  13. Let me explain the facts to you children.

    Communism ends poverty. Period. Poverty done for. Over with. Kaput.

    Capitalism lives off of poverty. Thrives off of it. Like a maggot a body.

  14. Yee says:

    The rioters love the UK/US more than Americans do. They would make ideal American citizens, Washington should take them all. Everybody happy…

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  15. @Curmudgeon

    That is only true if one has to conceive of lobbying being conducted as it is in the US – and elsewhere if not quite so excessively. It is perhaps worth toying with the idea of making records of lobbying discussions compulsory and publicly available. Which triggers the thought: what about FOI as it already is?

    I daresay records of discussions with members of Congress or MPs would be exempt. Perhaps they shouldn’t be. And perhaps, anyway, one could ask for any record made by a public servant and thereby at least catch lobbying of senior members of the Executive government as well as of influential public servants. I must try it.

    • Replies: @foolisholdman
  16. FYou says:
    @A123

    Your comment seems to be based strictly on some MSM drivel and the source is Independent.co.uk?

  17. @A123

    Being a haven for criminals and tax evaders leeching off a large economic unit is not a sustainable business model, as Little Britain itself is going to discover soon.
    And Hong Kong even has a deadline – they are going to pray for the end.

    • Replies: @Showmethereal
  18. @A123

    Next, the Malvinas, Gibraltar, Northern Ireland and Scotland.

    Peace? No peace 😛

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  19. d dan says:
    @A123

    Total BS.

    UK stole Hong Kong away from China at gun point. PRC didn’t recognize any of the so-called “treaties” after it was founded. Then China grew stronger and wanted everything back. UK had no choice (morally, militarily, diplomatically…) but gave it back.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  20. So, decades after the ‘Stockholm Syndrome’ emerged, a new one escaped from its baby incubator: the ‘Hong Kong Syndrome.’

    Well done, guys.

  21. Beijinger says:

    Funny news that recently some superrich guys in HK is giving out their preserved land for free to the local government to build affordable houses for the poor people.
    They are frightened. If they don’t help and the local government fails totally (which is impossible) and the central government have to get involved finally, their good time will be over.
    Time pass by, we will find that HK riot thing finally work out a good thing for HK and China.
    Get a pustule in your body, you can’t ignore it or hide it forever, you let it broke and get the pus out of your body, then you can cure and recover.
    It doesn’t worth any more fuss and booing, someone want to celebrate it as a cancer to China. LOL

  22. @A123

    I don’t deny that EU elites suffer from egomania, even globalist egomania.
    However, to blame the EU for the Brexit shambles is truly over the top.
    The EU has been consistent from the beginning. The UK entered negotiations with truly fantastic notions of its own importance. It has returned to the EU time & again with offers that have been time & again rejected.
    The UK refuses to deal realistically with the Irish issue. The UK refuses to accept that the EU is bound by its own rules. The UK refuses to admit that the it is in the weaker negotiating position. The UK refuses to admit that eventually it has to reach an agreement with the EU (the EU is by far the UK’s biggest trading partner.)
    The EU is not blameless, but it has never suffered the profound public delusions of the UK.
    ALL UK political parties have covered themselves in shame.
    And Cameron, that smug little shit, should rot in the “bad place”

    • Replies: @Antares
  23. @A123

    How unreasonable of the Chinese to insist on the return of Chinese territory to China. Who do these people think they are?

    Regrettably, our former colonies have a long history of ungrateful and irrational behaviour.

    We still cannot understand why our American colonies refused to come to a reasonable arrangement with the British Crown.

    • Replies: @Realist
    , @Patricus
  24. Escher says:

    Is Andre Vltchek another name for Godfree Roberts?

    • Replies: @foolisholdman
  25. Anonymous[124] • Disclaimer says:

    Ha! Let those kids try their hooliganism, or even peaceful protesting, in America or Macron’s France and they’d get their asses pounded by the police. That’s one common disconnect with reality by foreigners who fall prey to Washington propaganda. In America we have all these “rights” protected by a written constitution, but over the years they have become, in fact, hardly even theoretical, fully replaced by the modern “security state,” at least for all us worker drones not looking for trouble.

    If the fashionable youngster in Hong Kong wants Western-style freedom verging on anarchy (“a little bit of the old ultraviolence”), he or she should migrate forthwith to Sweden, Denmark, or the Northwestern states of Mutti’s Germany. Just being a foreigner gives one licence to rape, riot and slash the locals with knives in those enlightened societies. Yes, we do extend some of these same gruesome rights to our minorities in America (say in the streets of Chicago, St. Louis or Detroit), but you end up paying dues for these freedoms in the form of lengthy prison sentences amongst your fellow psychopaths.

    On the other side of the coin we have the majority of Americans who conflate our latter day gilded age laissez faire capitalism with “democracy” and think that most of the rest of the world live in concentration camps straight out of some book by Arthur Koestler. With a quaint Orwellian twist, given great impetus by the staged event of 9-11 and sporadic booster shots of mass shootings to incite peak fear in the populace, protecting our hallowed rights and freedoms paradoxically means relinquishing them to surveillance and control by an omniscient state apparatus.

    Somehow the current incarnation of democracy in our “land of the free” has involved an uninterrupted effort to overthrow the legitimately elected president by one mechanism or another, basically so he can’t stop the lucrative war machine that consumes most of the country’s revenues and airmails them directly to the offshore accounts of the aristocracy. The resultant death and destruction of whole societies being a piddling matter (as they are not indispensable Americans), at least for those without conscience, any evidence of which will get one immediately tossed from the “Big Club,” as George Carlin described it. Maybe that’s the concept of America the Hong Kongers are trying to emulate. Have I got news for them.

    • Agree: Parfois1
    • Replies: @foolisholdman
  26. Richard B says:
    @peterike

    They are steadily ruining what’s left of New York City, and we don’t need a single one of them.

    Interesting.

    How so?

    My question’s sincere by the way. I’d be interested to know.

    Left NYC almost 20 years ago for a number of reasons. The Chinese weren’t one of them.

    I guess things have changed.

    Visited twice since leaving.

    2003 (weird post-911 vibe) and in 2016 (city a ghost of its former self).

    When it comes to the reasons why the USA in general and NYC in particular are in free fall the list is long.

    Gotta say, it’s hard to see a winner in all of this.

    Though it might end up being the Chinese just because of sheer numbers.

    One thing seems certain. The chosen aren’t going to get the heaven on earth they were hoping for.

    In their anxiety to crush their “enemy” they invited too many people to the party.

    • Replies: @Pheasant
  27. onebornfree says: • Website

    The world should know, if Hong Kong falls, the whole world falls, okay?” said a Hong Kong protester in a video now going viral.

    The clip begins with an older man explaining to the camera how “the police force in Hong Kong is completely under the command of the Chinese communist party.”


    Concentration Camp Survivors: China Using Forced Sterilization, Abortion for Genocide

    https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2019/10/07/concentration-camp-survivors-china-using-forced-sterilization-abortion-for-genocide/

    Chinese Citizens Will Be Required To Scan Their Faces To Use The Internet
    “The Chinese government continues its Orwellian practices with the announcement that citizens will have to use facial recognition technology to access the internet (which is already highly fire-walled.)

    This is all a part of China’s social credit system that will take effect on Dec. 1st. After the law is in effect, Chinese citizens who want to have the internet installed at their houses or on their smartphones will be required to undergo a facial recognition process by Chinese authority to prove their identities, according to the new regulation…”

    https://www.activistpost.com/2019/10/chinese-citizens-will-be-required-to-scan-their-faces-to-use-the-internet.html

    onebornfree

    • Troll: d dan
    • Replies: @Lin
  28. GMC says:

    I Just met a young man and his wife, Who lives and works in H K today. He said that there is definetly outside influence and young Men are being paid to go a round and bash heads and terrorise the city. He also started that H K doesn t trust the Chinese gov in many areas. He was Very aware of the main street media bs and he is what American needs more of – young Men working abroad with good common sense of the World political arena. Thanks Unz Rev.

  29. Richard B says:
    @Priss Factor

    Yellow Peril in the US is instigated by Jews who want to divert American attention from Jewish power.

    You’re probably right.

    But to the extent you are this will backfire on Jewish Supremacy Inc. (JSI)

    They’re not the only ones with a culture going back thousands of years.

    Nor do the leaders of China strike me as a group of people all that keen on power-sharing.

    JSI may very well find themselves reduced to the role of a junior partner who provides China Inc. with its accountants.

    I used to think that China and JSI were dividing the world up between them.

    China gets the East. JSI the West.

    And they split the resources of Africa and Latin America.

    Both working together to squeeze out the Europeans (and their geographical extensions).

    But the Chinese are simply too big and need too many resources like copper, soya and water (lots of it).

    They already bought Ecuador back in 2010. They’ll probably buy Argentina soon too.

    And not just Argentina.

    Either way, since there’s no honor among thieves, it doesn’t look good for JSI.

    Sooner than later the Chinese are going to realize they just don’t need them.

  30. Arioch says:
    @A123

    > — How much of this was self interest?

    All of it.

    > The UK … introducing a new Basic Law democracy a few years before they left. ….. people of Hong Kong did have a true democracy, albeit briefly.

    So, if UK so for democracy and not for self interest, why did they introduce this noble holy fair pristine Basic Laws only “few years before leaving”, why not “few years after entering” ?

    Or was that law a poisonous pill like borderlines between India and Pakistan-Bangladesh, like patchwork of religions and ethnicities in Middle East?

    > Both sides believed the new lands would remain British for ever

    Why did they believe it? If they did, why did not they signed the normal sell-off treaty instead?
    Did they believe it, because British Empire was brute rapist and gangster, totally sure the victim he terrorized would never dare to raise even eyes, less so raise her voice? If not – then why else?

    > The British empire would never die.

    But it did die. It died and so the lease contract was over – there was no one left whom the land was leased too. Why China could not take their property back? Why did some other “person”, who has no side in the contract, moved in Chinese proper? Surely it was not because that new different fair democratic laws-loving UK still had big guns that China did not have? Then why else?

    ——

    Once British Empire threatened Russian Empire with war. Knowing sea power of B.E. Russia chosen to lease Alaska to USA, as Russia did not hope it will be able to defend it from the looming British war of aggression. That lease is long over, but Alaska was not returned to Russia. Just a coincidence of course, no pattern is allowed to be seen there.

    ——

    > The UK was left with two options:
    > Risk a war with a nuclear power in an attempt to keep Kowloon.

    …meaning would China have no nuclear weapons – UK would start the war to invade Chinese Kowloon and enjoy it despite the lease was over.

    So much for hyped Western “rules-based world order” and “let the world crash but laws prevail”.

    UK is upset they were denied armed breaking into another citizen’s home. And UK does not even pretend feeling shame!

    > Certainly there was fear that China would pre-emptively invade to prevent the public rebuke of mass depopulation.

    ….Cries crocodile tears UK that cleansed a whole island of its population just to sell it to USA for a little bit higher the price. Those people, few who survived still, are still denied their homes, nor can they have fair compensation for UK ruining their societies and lives.

    But now those very Brittons are suddenly so sensitive for dwellers of another island, that they can not sleep at night.

    —–

    > Critical infrastructure had been built on the leased land including the main airport, electric power plants, etc. There was no way to make Hong Kong Island self sufficient without facilities in Kowloon.

    1. Is it so? When Crimea broke free from coup-infested Ukraine – the latter instituted total blockade on Crimea. No food, no fresh water, no electricity, no transportations.
    But Crimea was made sustainable. Fresh water sources were found and built. Power plants were built. Airport was built. How comes what backward gas station of Russia with economy of tatters did something that noble strong advanced UK claims impossible?

    2. If Honkong indeed can not be sustained without those facilities – why not lease the facilities themselves, not the Kowloon? Negotiate supplies of electricity. Negotiate free route to the airport. Do you need the facilities – or all the lands around them?

    3. How came the wise UK build up Hong Kong in the way it was not sustainable without life support systems that were but on lands neither Hong Kong nor UK owned ??? If Hong Kong so badly needs those airport and electric plants – why not building them inside Hong Kong itself???
    It could not be because of indifference and arrogance of the gangster, believing he would have his own way over his victim’s property, right? But then – why else?

    Doublethink is strong in those ones…

    It so reminds me of another UK gentleman, I had an argument about two topics simultaneously, NATO expansion and NATO “defensive” missiles at Russian gates. That gentleman AT THE SAME TIME was pressing me to agree with two postures:
    1. There was no real promise to USSR about NATO non-expansion as I can not present any paper document where this promise was officially given by all of the NATO states.
    2. Russia should not demand any documented warranties about NATO missiles because “everyone openly say” they are not built against Russia.

    At the same time!

    • Replies: @Escher
  31. onebornfree says: • Website

    “……Across the pond, the Independent is reporting on how China is killing religious and ethnic minorities at an “industrial scale” in order to fuel black market organ-harvesting schemes……………….Lawyers from an independent China Tribunal presented evidence to the United Nations Human Rights Council which shows that China had been taking organs from Falun Gong religious minorities for 20 years.The tribunal reported that detainees were “killed to order… cut open while still alive for their kidneys, livers, hearts, lungs, cornea and skin to be removed and turned into commodities for sale.” The genocide of the Falun Gong is the epitome of pure evil, by anyone’s estimation……………”:

    “China is killing ethnic minorities in order to harvest their organs”:
    https://fascism.news/2019-10-09-china-killing-minorities-harvesting-organs-america-bad-plastic-straws.html

    onebornfree

    • Troll: d dan
    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Escher
  32. @obwandiyag

    What a bold statement.

    Now all you need is evidence.

    • Replies: @Herald
    , @obwandiyag
    , @Parfois1
  33. When I lived in china I had no desire to go to Xiang Gang aka Hong Kong. And that was many years ago before china was what it has become. The whole idea of people living like herring in barrel is disgusting. The fact that they separated themselves in this tiny enclave is the major proble. The worst is that they are separated not just physically but mentally as well it seems.
    I would love to go visit china again after 18 years of not being there. Beijing always was my favorite despite me spending most of time in china in Chongqing. Shanghai was also lovely when I visited it in 1989. Now it must be different place.

  34. onebornfree says: • Website
    @obwandiyag

    The Dictatorship Complex:

    “……..Nobody ever recommended a dictatorship aiming at ends other than those he himself approved. He who advocates dictatorship always advocates the unrestricted rule of his own will, although operated by an intermediary, an amanuensis. He wants a dictator made in his own image.

    Now we may grasp the causes of the popularity of planning. Everything that men do has to be planned, is the realization of plans. In this sense all economic activity means planning. But those disparaging anarchic production and advocating planned economy are eager to eliminate the plans of everybody else. One will alone should have the right to will, one plan alone should be realized, namely, the plan which the neurotic approves, the reasonable plan, the only plan. All obstacles should be removed, all other people’s power should be broken, nothing should prevent the wretched neurotic from arranging the world according to his whims. Every means is right if it helps to raise the daydreamer’s reason to the throne. …..”

    From: “Omnipotent Government- The Rise of the Total State and Total War”. by Ludwig Von Mises .Published 1944. Chapter XI. “The Delusions Of World Planning”, pp 241-2
    https://mises.org/library/omnipotent-government-rise-total-state-and-total-war

    “Regards” onebornfree

  35. @obwandiyag

    It depends what you call communism. Feeding for free s lot of different race strangers is not communism. In reality it is you do not work, then you do not eat. Would resolve lots of problems including refugees issue which in reality is parasites are coming to places where they are being fed for doing nothing by people pretending to be socialists while in reality enemies of the people inhabiting those places and utter morons.

  36. I suspect that somewhere in China there’s a military type that’s itching to storm HK. Once that logical leap is made, any purveyor of violence will surely conclude that ‘as long as we’re going to go after HK, we might as well hit Taiwan at the same time’.

    If you’re going to piss off the US with an action against HK, there’s really little down side to using the opportunity to take back Taiwan. I don’t see where the Chinese gov’t is too concerned about their image.

    The US’s instigation of the whole HK affair just might be the last straw that China needs to overtly fight back by subduing HK, invading Taiwan and simultaneously telling the US to FO in their next of the woods. This scenario is inevitable so maybe the meddling has lit the fuse.

    • Replies: @d dan
    , @Escher
  37. Vojkan says:
    @obwandiyag

    Communism doesn’t end poverty because communism doesn’t create added value. Banksterism and rentier capitalism live off poverty because they don’t create added value. Only free entreprise creates added value. Deng Xiaoping understood that and China throve. Mao before him didn’t and China remained miserable for decades.

    • Replies: @padre
    , @foolisholdman
  38. “Contrast between Hong Kong and Shanghai is tremendous, and growing.”

    That was the idea all along – isolate Hong Kong and direct all investment into mainland cities. This was never an accident. The modern Anglo-Saxon liberal democracy model will now be juxtaposed with that of authoritarianism. May the best system win.

  39. A123 says:
    @obwandiyag

    Let me explain the facts to you children. … Communism ends poverty. Period. Poverty done for. Over with. Kaput.

    Are you serious?

    The facts about socialism and communism are: (1)

    PEACE 😇

    _______

    (1) https://www.americanthinker.com/cartoons/2019/09/9_27_2019_1_19.html

    • Replies: @Arioch
    , @foolisholdman
  40. padre says:
    @peterike

    Who is “we”, you are talking about?

  41. This is a ridiculous propaganda piece. “CAPITALISM BAD! SOCIALISM GOOD!!!”

    With unsubstantiated nonsense like this:

    I spoke at all of these schools, and can confirm that the young people in Beijing and Shanghai are extremely hardworking, endlessly curious, while in Hong Kong, there is always that mildly arrogant air of exceptionalism, and lack of discipline.

    Great journalistic writing there! Totally verifiable and not at all biased!

    And what’s that picture? “Misery in Outer Islands of Hong Kong”

    What? You just took a picture between two buildings? And that’s the worst you could find for your “misery” pic? In that case Hong Kong is a paradise. How about the hundreds of millions who still live in poverty in China? Stuck in the drab, grey concrete blocks from the Maoist era.

    Before Deng Xiaoping saved China’s economy by introducing that horrible thing, “capitalism”. In other words private ownership, production, investment and trade. Without which China would have collapsed like the Soviet Union.

    Vietnam also adopted “capitalism”, since its mankind’s normal state to have private trade. While North Korea forces people to live on 800 calories a day as they still live in a communist hell where the Party steals from its slaves. Cuba likewise, and the communist tyranny only survives by a constant injection of money from Venezuela’s oil, sold to “capitalist” countries. Venezuela where the economy has also been destroyed by extreme government control, the Party stealing mansions and businesses.

    • Replies: @foolisholdman
  42. wayfarer says:

    Israel Sells U.S. Weapon Secrets to China.

  43. padre says:
    @Vojkan

    Where did you hear that?If that was true, how come so many noncommunist countries are poor?

  44. @A123

    Malice Aforethought

    A predetermination to commit an act without legal justification or excuse. A malicious design to
    injure. An intent, at the time of a killing, willfully to take the life of a human being, or an intent willfully to act in callous and wanton disregard of the consequences to human life; but malice aforethought does not necessarily imply any ill will, spite or hatred towards the individual killed.

    • Replies: @A123
  45. Anon[424] • Disclaimer says:

    The english pirates dope dealers ( opium wars ) lost their pirate base in Hong Kong , there is no way back no matter how many Hong Kong ( payed ) zombies wave the english flag . China does nor forget the Opium wars .

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_Wars

    • Replies: @Pheasant
  46. @Yee

    Nope, but let’s agree to send your rioters and our Chinese immigrants both to resettle in Israel.

  47. @A123

    That is complete nonsense. Hong Kong has no revenue problem – it has a relevance problem. Hong Kong was saved in the Finanical Crises of 1997 by mainland China. Hong Kong has up to last year record reserves and huge budgetary surpluses. Once upon a time it was 1/5 the GDP of China. Now its only 5 among Chinese cities. How can all those things be true? Simply because China realized a communist economy doesnt work on the mainland.
    Hong Kong lost stature simply because the rest of China opened up. It was Guangzhou that the British wanted to trade with and settled for a tiny island they made a colony. The purpose of Hong Kong was always to be a conduit between China and the rest of the world. Now it is simply not as necessary. Shanghai has the bigger port and the bigger stock market as Shanghai regains its old position as the pre-eminent business city in Asia (only Tokyo is still ahead but seemingly not for long).

  48. Anon[134] • Disclaimer says:

    At least one balanced reporting from an Australian journalist.

    Robert Ovadia’s 2 minutes video more or less encapsulates what is going on in HK.

    https://m.facebook.com/7NEWSsydney/videos/1356279747864337/?refsrc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2F&_rdr

    Robert Ovadia’s facebook

    I have never seen disinformation weaponised with such venom as my time in Hong Kong.We see in social media, right…

    Posted by Robert Ovadia on Wednesday, October 9, 2019

    I have never seen disinformation weaponised with such venom as my time in Hong Kong.
    We see in social media, right around the world, people’s refusal to acknowledge basic fact if it doesn’t confirm their entrenched political bias. In Hong Kong right now, this is toxic and dangerous.

    Well known Hong Kong actress, Celine Ma, protested the protesters. She had no less right to protest than they did, but because of it a solitary woman surrounded by an angry mob (championing “freedom” and “democracy”) was sprayed in the face, punched, shoved to the ground and had a glass bottle smashed over her head. This is fact and unambiguous.
    Organisations like Apple Daily, which has specific links to the “pro-democracy” protesters, deliberately edit videos out of context to alter their audience’s impression of what happened, to make it seem like she attacked protesters first

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Arioch
  49. melpol says:

    Aggressive tendencies can be quieted in the HK rioters by the disbursements of free Heroin. The dosage can be voluntarily increased until most will overdose and die. This proposal sounds nasty but it will work.

  50. @nokangaroos

    Yes but British Hong Kong was always that. It was a haven for the opium dealing British… Then it became a haven for fugitives escaping the Qing. Even when it became a banking and manufacturing powerhouse it became one of the 3 main world nodes for smuggling of all types (counterfeit/drugs/weapons etc) and offshoring of dirty and blood money. Thats why the triads made it their main base of operations (even more concentrated than on Taiwan or NY or San Fran or Bangkok) along with the favorite stash spot for those trying to hide money all throughout Asia. But all that is white washed away to pretend it was all “British civility”. It is such folly.

    • Agree: nokangaroos
    • Replies: @MAOWASAYALI
  51. Antares says:
    @animalogic

    You paint a very unrealistic picture of the EU. You may remember that three countries said “no” in their respective languages. According to the EU, we said “no,” but we meant “yes.” Referenda in the other EU-countries were immediately cancelled.

    One of those three countries was Ireland. So who is unrealistic about the Irish question? They want to leave, too.

  52. Herald says:
    @Sick of Orcs

    China itself is the evidence, where have you been?

  53. jsinton says:

    Forget it, Andre. Total Orwellian control of a population like that is the enemy. To hell with booming Beijing if they tell me I can’t protest in my country. Let God sort it out.

  54. “That lease is long over, but Alaska was not returned to Russia. Just a coincidence of course, no pattern is allowed to be seen there.”

    Damn Yankee Capitalists BUYING shit from Russia; why I never…

  55. d dan says:
    @RoatanBill

    “I suspect that somewhere in China there’s a military type that’s itching to storm HK… to using the opportunity to take back Taiwan…. This scenario is inevitable so maybe the meddling has lit the fuse.”

    I can’t dispute there might be groups in China who are itching for military action, but I believe the scenario you predicted is unlikely to happen.

    Beijing leaders have more control of its military than USA has of its. The nation has not (thank God) been kidnapped by the Military Industrial Complex (MIC). Further, China’s economy is not based on war profits, and her people are generally (just like most Americans) anti-war.

  56. Anon[134] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    I have never seen disinformation weaponised with such venom as my time in Hong Kong.
    We see in social media, right around the world, people’s refusal to acknowledge basic fact if it doesn’t confirm their entrenched political bias. In Hong Kong right now, this is toxic and dangerous.

    Well known Hong Kong actress, Celine Ma, protested the protesters. She had no less right to protest than they did, but because of it a solitary woman surrounded by an angry mob (championing “freedom” and “democracy”) was sprayed in the face, punched, shoved to the ground and had a glass bottle smashed over her head. This is fact and unambiguous.

    Organisations like Apple Daily, which has specific links to the “pro-democracy” protesters, deliberately edit videos out of context to alter their audience’s impression of what happened, to make it seem like she attacked protesters first.

    I wanna add that Apple Daily is owned by Jimmy Lai. The NYT has done a profile on him.

    Jimmy Lai has a long history with the US establishment, and recently met up with Mike Pence, Mike Pompeo and others. In a Youtube video he was seen telling an American audience that “we’re fighting for you”.

  57. Yee says:

    Anon[134],

    “At least one balanced reporting from an Australian journalist.

    Robert Ovadia’s facebook

    I have never seen disinformation weaponised with such venom as my time in Hong Kong.”

    There’s no way journalists in HongKong don’t see what is actually happening in the city. Yet, all of them in unision give bias and dis-informing reports. And this is the do called “free press”…

    I don’t think it’s “refusal to acknowledge basic fact if it doesn’t confirm their entrenched political bias” as Robert Ovadia claimed, I think it’s organized.

    • Replies: @Chinaman
  58. A123 says:
    @George F. Held

    I was going for the common English language usage, hence the spelling “malice of forethought”, not the U.S. Law defined term “Malice Aforethought”. Common usage covers substantially more ground than the Law Terminology.

    In this case, the predictable elimination of well paying HK jobs certainly resulted from PRC malice (intentional or willful negligence). Which is why the people of HK are on the streets demanding their future back.
    _____

    The real problem the PRC elitist, anti-worker, government in Beijing cannot fix the problem. HK economic activity was based on UK Contract Law and Courts. Beijing cannot get those back. So, they need to find a new job engine to move to HK, and it seems unlikely they can do that either.

    Ultimately, force is the only option available to the anti-worker PRC government. They have to coerce the people of HK into the acceptance of a permanently diminished lives for themselves and their Posterity. It will take the red communist, Elitist Party decades to beat the workers into submission, if at all possible.

    PEACE 😇

  59. @Escher

    Is Andre Vltchek another name for Godfree Roberts?

    No. They are two people looking at the same phenomenon. Being, both of them realists, they see the same things. Being reasonably honest, their reports are similar.

    • Replies: @Escher
  60. @Anonymous

    Ha! Let those kids try their hooliganism, or even peaceful protesting, in America or Macron’s France and they’d get their asses pounded by the police.

    10/1 they’d be shot. Dead.

  61. @Sick of Orcs

    As usual with you pathetic bozos, you didn’t even read the article. What, too many “big words”?

  62. @Vojkan

    Only free entreprise creates added value.

    Wrong*. Working people working create goods and services, which is what wealth is.
    Working people working is the only source of wealth there has ever been.
    That wealth, incidentally, is what give money its value.

    (OT We can have an argument about robots working, some time, if you like.)

    *Assuming that “entreprise” means what I think it means.

    • Replies: @Vojkan
  63. @Carpenter88

    While North Korea forces people to live on 800 calories a day

    Got a reference for that? I wonder the US does not invade, it should be a push-over!

  64. Vojkan says:
    @foolisholdman

    Sure, working people create wealth. That’s why East German Trabants and Wartburgs were so superior to West German Mercedes and BMWs.

    • Replies: @foolisholdman
    , @Arioch
  65. Chinaman says:

    There is one important point that is missing in the narrative.
    HKer are people who are descended from people who escaped China because of wars, disapproval of the regime and their self-interest.

    They are race traitors with no sense of country who willingly live under the British for 150 years. They are genetically different. I heard this from an interview of the CEO of Hang Lung , one of the biggest landholders in HK. Makes perfect sense.

    Why are we surprised that people who have escaped from China is revolting against China?

    The best solution is to grant them all green cards or UK citizenships. That’s what they are ultimately fighting for. They will make good slaves for white people.

  66. Chinaman says:
    @Yee

    Check out #Hkprotest on Twitter.

    The propaganda machine is very well organised. HKer don’t use Twitter and the target audience are Americans.

    This is indeed a CIA Color Revolution.

  67. Anon[279] • Disclaimer says:

    The biggest problem with HK is Hong Kongers. The Cantonese are a loud, uncouth, dirty, rude, unpleasant, greedy, unscrupulous and obnoxious bunch. Quite possibly the rudest people on earth. Yes I know that describes all Chinese in general, but the Cantonese are a particularly greedy, obnoxious and unpleasant subtribe out of an already obnoxious and unpleasant tribe.

    Not surprisingly, the Zionist mouthpiece Breitbart is taking full opportunity to hit out at the mainland Chinese government daily. Effing greedy bastard Zionist bankers are eager to take out the Chinese government because they wouldn’t hand over their economy to these globalist bankers and let them loot and clean out China the way the did the US. The whole point behind Trump’s trade war with China is to allow these bankers to get their claws into China. They want to force China to allow them to open their banks in China and buy into/manipulate China’s stock market. All you have to know is that George Soros is backing Trump on the trade war. When was the last time Soros backed Trump on anything? It is the same reason why these effing bankers are at war with Putin.

    I do not like the Chinese, esp. those from mainland China and HK. They are a rude and unpleasant people, and extremely dishonest and untrustworthy. But I dislike the unscrupulous money and power hungry Zionist bankers even more. I wish China success in keeping out these greedy soulless rootless cosmopolitans while developing their economy to be the richest on earth, and take back all their countrymen from the US. The West is on its last legs. The useful idiots in HK are too dumb to see.

    • Replies: @Parfois1
  68. Anon[279] • Disclaimer says:

    Perhaps more people in the US would be more sympathetic towards the government of China if we weren’t swamped by mainland Chinese. They are invading this country. Everywhere you go from NYC to Seattle, SF, LA to Boston, new Chinese restaurants selling Chinese regional cuisines that no one’s ever heard of are popping up everywhere, and they are always packed with mainland Chinese speaking loudly in Chinese. When and how the hell did all these people get here? On what visa are they living here? Are they all even here legally? How many are living here and sending their kids to our schools for free on tourist visas? And they are bidding up our home prices to the point where locals can’t afford to buy homes in our own damn country.

    If the Chinese government wants more support from the West, they need to stop blanketing the west with their locusts, and the mainland Chinese need to get the hell out of the west and go home. The only place anyone wants to see a Chinese is inside China.

    • Replies: @denk
  69. Anon[279] • Disclaimer says:
    @A123

    The UK wisely did not give every HK citizen a UK passport. No one wants to live among these people. Have you ever been to HK? They are an extremely unpleasant bunch. Doesn’t matter how much money they have and how well they dress, they act and talk like trailer trash wherever they go.

  70. Anon[279] • Disclaimer says:
    @onebornfree

    So? It’s time the US mind our own fucking business and leave everyone else the hell alone.

    • Replies: @denk
  71. Anonymous[291] • Disclaimer says:

    I’m glad China is now canceling the NBA. The NBA is at the forefront of promoting toxic degenerate garbage western pop culture. Chinese youth worship all things western, they are becoming the useful idiots of the Zionist west through the rotten degenerate culture promoted by Hollywood. Chinese government needs to wake up and stop any and all incursion of Hollywood and American pop culture incl. pro sports into China. They need to ban all US movies, TV shows, rap music and sports teams. Jew run Hollywood has rotted the culture of the west from inside out, don’t let them do the same to the Chinese.

    The Japanese never worshipped the west the way the Chinese do. They wisely retained their own culture by taking pride in their own language and culture, despite being attacked as “insular”. Now the western world admires Japanese culture.

    • Replies: @Priss Factor
    , @denk
    , @Marcus
  72. Anonymous[291] • Disclaimer says:

    HK is what unfettered capitalism looks like. It is ultimately a completely soulless, unscrupulous, dog-eat-dog system where the only thing that matters is money, and the greediest, most dishonest and ruthless win. Nobody trusts anybody, and everybody hates everybody. What a lovely place to live in. It’s the kind of place the greedy soulless globalist bankers, tech titans and shitlibs conspire to turn the US into.

  73. Pheasant says:

    Look I am more than willing to believe that what we see in the western press about China could be propaganda. But I see too many of these pro-Chinese peices written by journos who want to get on China’s good side. This article has a couple of fair points but is way too positive about the mainland. If China has cut down on corruption so much then why do Chinese export thier wealth to western countries where property rights are safer? Many experts think this might cause the Chinese economy to collapse. Hong Konger’s speaking less english than Singapore? Maybe blame the CCP who replaced English in Hong kong etc.

    • Replies: @ACDC
    , @Vidi
  74. Pheasant says:
    @Richard B

    ‘city a ghost of its former self).’

    Very interesting please elaborate.

  75. Pheasant says:
    @obwandiyag

    Good god you are stupid. You think that the Chinese system in 2019 is actual communism?

    Wow.

    • Replies: @obwandiyag
  76. Pheasant says:
    @Anon

    The (((sassoons))) were Jewish.

  77. Agent76 says:

    Oct 7, 2019 Hong Kong on Brink of Totalitarianism | China Uncensored

    Protesters say the government is unaccountable to the people. And that leaves pro-democracy legislators like Tanya Chan vulnerable. As Beijing tries to purge politicians not loyal to the Party line, is there hope for Hong Kong?

    • Troll: d dan
  78. @A123

    https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/malice+of+forethought
    malice of forethought
    Phrase not found in the Dictionary and Encyclopedia.

    https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/malice_aforethought
    Home British & World English malice aforethought
    Definition of malice aforethought in English:

    malice aforethought
    noun
    mass noun
    Law

    The intention to kill or harm, which distinguishes murder from unlawful killing.
    ‘the accused has caused death but did not have malice aforethought’

    • Troll: A123
    • Replies: @A123
  79. “Some in Hong Kong Feel Frustrated, as Their City Is Losing to Mainland China”

    The crass stupidity of this and its underlying assumptions are astonishing,

    Try this

    “Some in Rhode Island Feel Frustrated, as Their City Is Losing to Mainland America”

  80. @A123

    ” “malice of forethought”,”

    As an Englishmen neither I nor any of my acquaintance would use such a term.

    • Replies: @Erebus
  81. Lin says:
    @onebornfree

    You ain’t tired of repeating the same propaganda ? You’re running out of your rhetorics?
    –U pretend u’ve never heard of the intel ‘management engine’ that spied on its users?
    –Oop..u needed breitbart BS?

  82. Lin says:

    Some basic facts regarding HK
    –HK no longer has manufacturing industry, no even SW industry
    –The main pillars of HK economy:
    **Banking: Let’s guess, who’re the clients? Would the bulk of clients disappear if it’s not part of china?
    **Real estates: Housing cost is crazy there
    **Tourism: 78% of visitors are from china mainland. How would home owners feel if their property market values depreciate?
    (**Shipping: what would happen if the Beijing want to do without the HK ports?)

    The longer term solution is 1 country 1 system and HK merges with, say, ShenZhen

  83. Everything is mega-collective today. It’s either one big unit, bloc, or one big ideology. None of this is ultimately valid, true, or useful. Small, exegesis, and workable units of ideology and lack of complication is the best path. Look at the Amish, Mennonites and small, intact, cohesive and homogenous communities.

    This is the path of the future.

  84. Erebus says:
    @Bill Jones

    The bot A123 blew its cover when it called it “common English usage”.

    UR has been swarmed by bots.

  85. @nokangaroos

    Each one of them is a deadweight on the English taxpayer! All good for England as long as the EU can be relied in to protect the Sassenachs from the kilted barbarians.

  86. Parfois1 says:
    @Sick of Orcs

    Now all you need is evidence.

    Self-evident. Validity proven by definition, as a postulate or axiom.

  87. Parfois1 says:
    @Anon

    I do not like the Chinese, esp. those from mainland China and HK. They are a rude and unpleasant people, and extremely dishonest and untrustworthy. But I dislike the unscrupulous money and power hungry Zionist bankers even more.

    Wholeheartedly concur with your comment. Indeed, in my experience dealing with Chinese, I would not want them as my neighbours, although they are gradually encroaching within the wider region.

    As you stated, the reason China is maligned by the Jewish-controlled world media is the fact that the globalist bankers are not allowed to profit from the largest body of consumers on earth, soon the largest economy. Not only that, China is already in the process of snatching some of the hostage countries from the jaws of the Jewish bankers and there will be more to come.

    • Replies: @Biff
  88. @Anonymous

    The Japanese never worshipped the west the way the Chinese do.

    What? Japanese are total dogs of the US. Japanese whores are the biggest traitors in the world.

  89. kauchai says:
    @peterike

    As of last year (2018), about 150 million chinese travelled overseas and the same number returned to china. The million or so who remained in NY (if this can be believed) are most likely criminals wanted by china, students (many of whom may return to china after graduation), social deviants, western brain washed idiots who think the white men love them, etc, etc. They are welcome to remain in NY forever. This is chinese trash exported to the USA. LOL!

  90. kauchai says:
    @A123

    Spoken like a true british imperial chauvinist pig. Its all china’s fault. Britain smells like “roses” no matter how high the pile of imperial shit it spread all over the world since the conquest of india. Why, even BREXIT is a fault of the EU!

  91. Escher says:
    @Arioch

    Good points. I assume the island you are referring to is Diego Garcia.
    The treatment of the islanders by the Brits was shameful to say the least.

    • Replies: @Seig
  92. Escher says:
    @onebornfree

    I would take those allegations with a massive bucket of salt. Reminds me of Iraqi soldiers bayoneting babies in Kuwait, yellow cake uranium sales, WMD, and Saddam being behind 9/11.

  93. Escher says:
    @RoatanBill

    Unlikely to happen, unless it is triggered by another country. China thinks long term, and time is on her side.

  94. kauchai says:
    @Erebus

    Hear…hear. And its high time to end the “god save the queen” education system too. Kick out all the brit judges and replace them with patriotic chinese ones. Revamp the entire media bullshit by first, sending people like jimmy lai to a life term in prison for treason. Kick out all the “double citizenship” holders, pretending to be HKers. Last but not least, shove out the 1000+ CIA and british intelligence operatives back to their own shit holes where they can create more false flags like 911.

    Looks like Carrie Lam and her colleagues have to clean up a lot of leftover brit shit.

  95. A123 says:
    @George F. Held

    Georgie baby go “wah, wah”. Poor baby.

    Did you obey the rules of common usage by finding the definition of each word? An elementary school student could do this.

    However, as you have at best pre-kindergarten level English language skills. Let me help you…..

    https://www.wordnik.com/words/malice
    — A desire to harm others or to see others suffer; extreme ill will or spite.

    https://www.wordnik.com/words/of
    — Produced by; issuing from.

    https://www.wordnik.com/words/forethought
    — planning or plotting in advance of acting

    So “malice” “of” “forethought”

    A desire to harm others + Produced by + Planning in advance of acting.

    The PRC desired to harm the UK via a plan to evict them from Hong Kong. The PRC’s *malice of forethought* also inflicted harm on the people of Hong Kong, which is their responsibility as they planned (a.k.a. forethought) the harmful (a.k.a. malicious) act.

    PEACE 😇

    • Troll: d dan
    • Replies: @Vojkan
    , @Arioch
  96. Escher says:
    @foolisholdman

    The author does make some good points, but he loses a lot of credibility with his unthinking China worship, just like Godfree Roberts.
    A balanced portrayal of reality, including the problems within China will go a long way in convincing skeptics.

    • Replies: @Vidi
  97. Biff says:
    @Parfois1

    Indeed, in my experience dealing with Chinese, I would not want them as my neighbours,

    They pay in cash; rarely default; are usually pretty tidy; never have caused depreciation, and never complain about noise or much of anything else(their cooking smells off).

    My white neighbors: usually pretty tidy; never have caused depreciation, but complain about everything!

    • Replies: @ACDC
  98. Vojkan says:
    @A123

    You are told the correct expression but you persist and demonstrate touchiness, ignorance and immaturity. In your smugness, you don’t even realise that the construct you make to “prove” your point, “desire issued from planning” is illogical. You don’t plan a desire, you plan its realisation, the desire precedes the plan, it doesn’t follow it. Henceforth you will be regarded as a troll and not taken seriously.

  99. Seig says:
    @Escher

    The low IQ scum of Diego Garcia were imports to work plantations. Like all darkies, they preferred the sustenance level lifestyle of plantation slaves and insisted on staying (with UK gibs to support them) even after the no longer viable plantations closed. The idea that the needs of these rustic, entitled welfare recipients should be allowed to dictate military policy is the type of thinking that can be expected by Kumbaya hippies and libtards throughout the over-educated plantations of Western academia. The poster probably thinks of Abos as functional humans. Get a life hippie

    • Replies: @Arioch
  100. I don’t know why you keep publishing CCP propaganda, but do you realize that you are undermining the credibility of your entire site? If you’re willing to lie on behalf of the CCP then what else are you lying about?

  101. Arioch says:
    @A123

    Quoting ideal of communism as practical implementation recipe of socialism was as smart as saying there is no difference between ability wnd effort. Great job!

  102. Arioch says:
    @Seig

    > all darkies …. prefer…. lifestyle of plantation slaves

    Another great job.

  103. Arioch says:
    @A123

    Refusal to extend privilege is now “malice”

    Another great job.

    So, UK as you picture it is nothing but a tiny kid throwing tantrum in a toy shop?

  104. denk says:
    @Anonymous

    They need to ban all US movies, TV shows, rap music and sports teams. Jew run Hollywood has rotted the culture of the west from inside out, don’t let them do the same to the Chinese.

    Dont stop there,
    Put a brake on the gawd damned xtian infiltration pronto, provided its still not too late, the churches and their brainwashed sheeples have been at the forefront of the swarming adolescense in HK.
    The fact that China is on the way to the most xtianised country in the world send a cold chill down my spine.

    KIck out all foreign English teachers, China doesnt need the Queen’s English to survive forchrissake, just ask the jps and KOreans.
    That asshole Brian Kern, field commander of the HK rioters, had a stint in China teaching English, until he was found engaging in some extra curricular activities trying to subvert the youngsters mind and booted out, then he went to HK and carry on teaching in the ‘prestigious’ HK international college and continued his subversive brainwashing.
    There’s an army of Brian Kern like gweilos teaching in China’s schools, brainwashing China’s future PM, teachers, scientists, all expense paid .
    That send another cold chill down my spine.,

    I heard China is discouraging the extravagant celebration on western festivals like Christmas, this a good move, abeit too little, too late.
    Excessive indulgence on western culture is detrimental to national unity.
    Trust the whiteys to show their disapproval on this.
    http://www.unz.com/jderbyshire/september-diary-my-return-to-china-after-18-years/#comment-3497227

    *. Now the western world admires Japanese culture.*

    Jp ignoramus aint any better than Chinese peasants or brainwashed anglos.
    IMagine , majority are fond of murikkans who tested the A bomb on them in ww2 while hating the Chinese who in fact were victim of jp aggression since the MIng dynasty.
    WTF.

    Can you imagine, the jps voluntarily shrink their territorial water in order to offer unfettered passage for murikkan nuke sub in the 70’s, much like the way they allow unfettered access to their women by murikkans GI in OKinawa…..all expenses paid no less !

    They even allow murikkan imposed no fly zones in jp, exclusively for the USAF benefit, out of bound to jp own airliners !

    As BUsh would say….
    ‘Jp is our ATM, the beauty is ….we dont even need a pin no’
    What’s there not to like ?

    • Replies: @Arioch
    , @Erebus
  105. Arioch says:
    @Anon

    When i see ballistas and other medieval weapon i can’t help thinking mqybe government should support the game and unleash medieval knights on them? Asians did not use khorses, but just a proper order of armored warriors with unsheathed swords. Just for authencity.

  106. denk says:
    @Anon

    Anglos do have more than their fair share of hypocrites, like this
    onebornfucked, JImjones, TKK, and lots and lots more, wagging their fingers at China while their own [[[countries]]] are killing innocents on a daily basis. They’r all over the alternate media…never mind the
    MSM !

    Brits, Yanks, Canucks , …went all the way to Beijing to protest on the ‘genocidal railway to Tibet‘, [sic] while their [[[countries]]] are committing serial genocides all over the world.

    anglos gate crashed Chinese embassies to protest on ‘oppression in Tibet’, unthinkingly parrot the official story of MUslim concentrations camps in Xinjiang…..while their [[[govn]]] condone, abetted real genocides in INdia’s Tibet and Kashmir.

    They basked in the delusion of moral superiority, while in fact they’r like zombies, pre- programmed by their ptb, on whom to like, whom to hate, whom to fear, whom to obey [their ptb] and whom to ‘stand up to’ [China], which genocides to ignore, which ‘genocides’ to cry out loud…..

    pathetic.
    —–

    *So? It’s time the US mind our own fucking business and leave everyone else the hell alone.*

    This is from a Jp, a thinking jp…

    U.S. retreat not soon enough…

    Harrison says, “There will come a time when Americans will pack up and go home.” Maybe he doesn’t know how much of the world’s population longs to see such a sight in their homeland.

    http://web.archive.org/web/20080213091020/http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/rc20060709a4.html

  107. denk says:
    @Anon

    Perhaps more people in the US would be more sympathetic towards the government of China if we weren’t swamped by mainland Chinese

    having first hand experience with WMM, I MIGHt’ve actually empathised with the yanks,…
    but when I see that bitch Pelosi gloating on the scene of wanton violence in HK, with this cheerful remark …
    ‘What a wonderfuk scene, what a sight to behold’ ,
    my blood boil.

    Then there’s this former senior adviser in the Trump and Bush administrations Christian Whiton, who met both Lai and Lee in Hong Kong this summer,who brazenly declare, …
    causing this crisis for the Chinese government … is good in the national interests of the US.””

    sob !

    But you aint seen nuthin yet,,,,,

    After a murikkan consulate official, aka CIA operative, was caught giving instructions to Joshua Wong and co., the state dept bitch had the gall to lambast Beijing ‘thuggish regime’…for daring to expose this murikkan skullduggery !!

    Thirty years after TAM, where they screwed China big time,
    fukus are still trying to destabilise and demonise China.
    They dont even bother to hide it this time.

    Jeeze, if CCP is a ‘thuggish regime’, then what kind of cuntry is the USA ???

    How do you empathise with those who want you dead and aint
    afraid to say so ?

    UKUS pose an existential threat to the entire Chinese world, anything that can weaken their strength,… natural disaster, WMM, massive riots, independence movements …is good for China, even the entire Chinese world community.

    The Chinese foreign ministry lady, HUa Chun YIn, response to Pelosi’s brazen provocation with this retort,
    ‘Lets hope there’r many beautiful scene appearing all over USA’

    Amen,

  108. denk says:

    *its the Jews*

    There’r only 22 countries that the Brits havent invaded ,

    The Yanks have been at war every single year since the birth of USA.

    Are they all Jew ordained wars ?
    I seem to recall Israel was vehemently against the bombing of ex Yugo ?

    The Howards, the BIshops,Turnbulls, Bliars, Clintons, Cheneys, Rumsfeld, bUsh, Mccain, Bolton, Brennan, Pence, Pompeos, Pelosi, …,the Kennan’s, the Mackinder’s, you can go right back to YOunghustands etc etc.
    they aint Jews.

    Practically all the sinophobes i encounter online aint Jews, …hell, they all swear at the Jews !

    Yanks blame everything on the Jews.
    BUt you cant force a buffalo to drink water,
    Israel is at best a co-conspirator, even a junior one,.

    • Replies: @ACDC
  109. bjondo says:

    Underneath the pile, rats.
    Underneath the rats, Brits.
    Underneath the Brits, guess who.

  110. denk says:

    I grew up an anglophile.
    Hell, I supported the invasion of Grenada, [sic] mourned the Challenger tragedy.

    UNtil one day I discovered the alternate media, starting with ICH, antiwar.com, thats when I really grew up.

    Thats when it dawn on me,,
    *The anglos are the Chinese mortal enemy,
    http://www.unz.com/jderbyshire/september-diary-my-return-to-china-after-18-years/#comment-3496954
    In fact you can go right back to the OPium war, Eight nations alliance, Younghusbands sojourn to Tibet, the Mcmahon line which led to the indo/sino war in 1962….[ blamed on the Chinese of course.]

    They have more than their fair share of hypocrites who seem to think that charity starts at someones backyard at the other side of the planet.

    The lies….
    When they lied , they lied big,
    FUKUS practically hogs the entire chart of top hundred hoaxes of the century.

    I’d just focus on the ones targeting China….
    Tibet genocide, Xinjiang genocide, TAM, Indonesia bloodbath, HK, cyberwar, invasion of India , FLG,..

    Every Chinese policy , like one child rule, social credit, curbing of underground churches, de-radicalisation prog in Xinjiang
    ………are derided, distorted and maligned.

    BLaming the victims,,,…
    ROBBER CRYING ROBBERY.,

    [[[genocidists][]] demonise China on fake genocides,
    [[[five eyes]]] accuse China of global espionage,
    [[[five liars]]] accuse China of propaganda,
    [[[pax murikka]]] accuse China of expansionism.

    And,…
    The ruthlessness,/
    Total embargo on China during the famine in the 50’s, MH370, Indonesia 1965, indonesia 1998….

    Yet….
    I wouldnt write off the entire [[[tribe]]], there’r many honorable people that deserve my highest respect, the writers, the commenters.
    They’r the anglos saving grace, unfortunately its these upright men that incur the wrath of the tribe, who call them ‘self hating whites’ , even ‘traitors’

  111. The success of the Chinese modernization sprint is based on various pillars:

    The key sectors of the economy are in the hands of the government, which also indirectly controls most of the other sectors, inter alia through the controlling presence of the Communist Party in most medium-sized and large companies.
    The financial sector is under strict government control.
    The economy is planned, not in all details but in general, both in the short term and in the longer term.
    There is room for (quite a lot of) private initiative within a well-delineated market mechanism that is dynamically developed in various economic domains; the market mechanism is tolerated as long as it does not interfere with economic and social objectives (of the overall planning).
    Compared to other emerging countries, there is a high degree of openness to foreign investment and foreign trade, provided that it is in line with China’s global economic objectives.
    A great deal of effort is being put into developing infrastructure and Research & Development.
    Wages largely follow the increase in productivity, which has created a large and dynamic internal market.
    A relatively large amount is invested in education, health care and social security.
    The country has enjoyed peace for decades and there is a relatively high level of social peace in the workplace.
    The distribution of agricultural land to farmers at the start of the revolution and the system of individual household registration (Hukou) have made it relatively possible to avoid the typical chaotic rural exodus of most Third World countries, resulting in massive informal and unproductive work.
    Unlike the Soviet Union, China has not embarked on a very expensive arms race with the US.
    This approach contrasts with the recipe of capitalist countries where financial capital and multinationals are in charge, where short-term profit is the overriding goal and where governments are fixated on eliminating budget deficits through savings.

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/china-farmers-artificial-intelligence/5691635

    • Replies: @foolisholdman
  112. @peterike

    Oh yeah? Well about a million or so of his fellow countrymen seem to like New York just fine, and more arrive every day. Can you please ask Yuan to invite them all back home? They are steadily ruining what’s left of New York City, and we don’t need a single one of them.

    There are 350,000 or so foreign-born Chinese Americans in NYC, not a million. Yuan Sheng probably worth more than the next 10,000 Chinese immigrants in New York City combined. On the other hand, Chinese -Americans are hard-working and family-oriented people. You are spewing nonsense.

    A lot of the Chinese immigrants came to NYC to get away from China’s ultra-competitive society. NYC gives them an easier, not necessarily better, life.

  113. @obwandiyag

    I would add one more reason why China is still a socialist country:

    The state and communal ownership of land and natural resources.

  114. @Vojkan

    Sure, working people create wealth. That’s why East German Trabants and Wartburgs were so superior to West German Mercedes and BMWs.

    Golly! What a stupid reply! Is that the best you can do? What sort of people do you suppose made the West German Mercedes and BMWs?

  115. @A123

    Do you think this cartoon proves something?

  116. Arioch says:
    @Vojkan

    Do you say Trabants and Wartburgs had no value at all?

    Why not comparing Great Wall cars produced in PRC to cars produced in HK, or in SG, or in RoC ?

  117. Arioch says:
    @denk

    More so, Japan gave away Kurila islands to USSR for the sake of privilege of hosting USA military bases – that one in Okinawa and few others.

    For then Japanese government – and all consequent ones – the US flag in Okinawa meant more than Japanese flaf in Kurila islands. Well, up to them…

    • Replies: @denk
  118. ACDC says:
    @Pheasant

    Hong Kongers have never been able to speak good English even when the British were around. It’s that Godforsaken tongue called Cantonese. People who speak that hideous dialect could never speak any other language properly. Have you ever heard it? It’s the harshest, most hideous sounding language on earth.

  119. ACDC says:
    @Biff

    are usually pretty tidy;

    Chinese are dirty filthy people. Not as bad as the Indians, but pretty damn bad. The Japanese are the only Asians who understand cleanliness. HK is disgustingly dirty. Guangzhou is easily the dirtiest city in China. The fucking Cantonese eat anything that moves. That’s why it was ground zero of SARS.

    More evidence: Chinatowns all over the west are filthy, overcrowded and run down.

  120. @obwandiyag

    Let me explain the facts to you children.

    Communism ends poverty. Period. Poverty done for. Over with. Kaput.

    Capitalism lives off of poverty. Thrives off of it. Like a maggot a body.

    It seems to me that capitalism, left to itself, is a very dynamic (albeit brutal) system in its early to middle development and that in its later stage it becomes a real drag on development with the development of monopolies and cartels which want to crush anything that might reduce the companies bottom line.

    The NEP period in the USSR was a dynamic and exciting period of huge growth of an increasing standard of living which was cut short because Lenin and the CPSU(B) was scared by the growth of corruption and “the Capitalist Mentality”.

    The problem with a planned economy is that the plan is inevitably insufficiently detailed. There are always going to be things that people want and/or need that are not planned for and therefore not produced. Likewise some things that only the planners think people will want are produced and go to waste. Also a planned economy is NOT immune to corruption.

    From about 1927 onwards the Chinese Communist party was running an economy in the liberated areas and it knew the value of small independent firms and cooperative workshops in filling the gaps in the planned economy and they did not (at least until and during the Great Cultural Revolution) forget this and make the mistake that the USSR made in ending the NEP. (Many people do not know what the 4 small stars on the PRC’s flag represent, namely the Workers, Peasants, Soldiers and Patriotic Capitalists.)

    When the US thought to co-opt the Chinese as allies against the USSR, the CCP realised that they could use the offered US help to build up their industry very rapidly, in a capitalist mode and seized the opportunity that it offered. However, they did not lose control of the process as the CPSU(B) did. They kept control of their county’s finances (They even hung a few errant Banksters.) and directed industry to do what they wanted it to do they kept their central planning while allowing the capitalists to fill in the gaps that were left. And more recently, they really set about tackling the perennial problem of corruption, both in society at large and in the CCP itself. The results have astonished the world. They are now wealthy enough to think about (and are on course to) abolishing poverty by the end of 2020.

    To sum up: it is not “Communism” that has done this, but it is a very clever and determined Communist Party making use of and controlling a partially capitalist economy to do what it wanted it to do, that has done it.

    • Replies: @Erebus
  121. @Wizard of Oz

    That is only true if one has to conceive of lobbying being conducted as it is in the US – and elsewhere if not quite so excessively. It is perhaps worth toying with the idea of making records of lobbying discussions compulsory and publicly available. Which triggers the thought: what about FOI as it already is?

    I daresay records of discussions with members of Congress or MPs would be exempt. Perhaps they shouldn’t be. And perhaps, anyway, one could ask for any record made by a public servant and thereby at least catch lobbying of senior members of the Executive government as well as of influential public servants. I must try it.

    If you have magnates rich enough to buy politicians they will buy them, if they can, records or no records. Are you going to have records of discussions on the golf course or in the Masonic dinners? At the club? At Ascot or at Cowes?

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @Erebus
  122. ACDC says:
    @denk

    Jews excel at doing things quietly behind the scenes. It’s their mantra, never take the lead, put the dumb goy up as frontmen. All of neocon and the shitlib movement from the left are run by Jews. Even people with non-Jewish sounding names like Bret Stephens, Max Boot are all Jews. Deep state is donimated by Jews. Do a search at the civil servant employment website for last names like Shapiro, Cohen, Silverman etc. and you’d be shocked how many names you see, often at high paying and high ranking positions in all our government agencies. Jews also run the indoctrination machines a.k.a. msm, social media and academia. They also dominate the law profession and are now grabbing power from the Executive branch through the court system.

    Pelosi, Clintons, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Bush, Pence, Pompeo, Graham, Rubio et. al. all take their orders from their Jew masters, who are their major donors, and also hold plenty of their dirty secrets through CIA and Mossad to ensure they play ball.

  123. @d dan

    “morally” is surely not so simple. There were actual people living in Hong Kong, born there and escaped to there from a one party authoritarian state, and practically none of them wanted to be returned to Chinese rule. What would have been the morality of sending al Russian refugees back to Soviet rule in the 20s?

    • Replies: @d dan
  124. onebornfree says: • Website

    What Was China’s Cultural Revolution and Why Was It So Violent?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7G0UXnXpABw

    “….So what exactly was this “Cultural Revolution” thing anyway? The U.S. media does a wonderful job of recalling atrocities that they can associate with the Right, while far worse horrors stemming from the Left vanish into oblivion. In reality, not only does the Cultural Revolution demand to be remembered and commemorated, it also offers precious lessons about the nature of violence, and the perils of mob rule.

    In 2019, Communist China will celebrate its seventieth anniversary, and in that short time it has been responsible for no fewer than three of the worst acts of mass carnage in human history. These include the mass murders of perceived class enemies in the immediate aftermath of the revolution (several million dead), and the government-caused and -manipulated famine of the late 1950s, which probably killed some 40 million. Only when set aside these epochal precedents does the Cultural Revolution of 1966-76 seem like anything other than a unique cataclysm……..”:

    So You Want a Cultural Revolution?
    https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/so-you-want-a-cultural-revolution/

    Regards, onebornfree

  125. @foolisholdman

    True, up to a point. What about asking for all documents (scil. prepared by public servantscor others whose records are subject to FOI ) which contain records of or refer to discussions with ministers by persons with commercial interests – or interests in foreign relations as evidenced by their membership ofcor representing A**** or A** or…?

    • Replies: @foolisholdman
  126. d dan says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    “morally” is surely not so simple. There were actual people living in Hong Kong, born there and escaped to there from a one party authoritarian state, and practically none of them wanted to be returned to Chinese rule.

    I still call that a BIG BS.

    Firstly, I don’t see why should there be any moral consideration for returning Hong Kong-born politically neutral people to Beijing. I know they tried their best to brainwash many to be anti-communist. So, yes, the British dug a hole for Hong Kongers to jump into. But don’t tell me that is a moral argument for UK. Secondly, if they were really concerned about the plight of the limited number of refugees, they could certainly grant them citizenship. Finally, British displayed little respects to Hong Kongers’ rights during its 150+ years of rule (e.g. no election, brutal suppression of political freedom, outright racism and discrimination…). It is hard for any neutral person to believe their “concern”, if any, was due to humanity reason, rather than political opportunism.

    “What would have been the morality of sending al Russian refugees back to Soviet rule in the 20s?”

    Oh, come on, that is cheap. Returning a stolen land has no comparison with sending a Russian refugees back to Soviet. Anyone who send a Russian refugee to Soviet is INTENTIONALLY wanting to harm him/her. Whereas British knew Hong Kong was a stolen land, and if they had any conscience, they could have educate the younger generation to love China and to recognize their Chinese identity, to prepare them for the return of the land. Instead, the British did the REVERSE in their final years.

    I say FUCK them. They have ZERO (actually, negative) moral ground.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  127. Patricus says:
    @Julian of Norwich

    The “legacy of British colonialism” must have been unbearable for the innovative Chinese. Funny, other places that experienced British colonialism seem to have done fairly well, Singapore, Australia, the United States and many more. Colonialism may be lamentable but the Brits were probably not the worst.

    We eagerly await enlightened Chinese contributions to the world. Someday. Don’t expect this new flourishing all at once.

    • Replies: @d dan
    , @last straw
  128. Erebus says:
    @foolisholdman

    Well done!

    To sum up: it is not “Communism” that has done this, but it is a very clever and determined Communist Party making use of and controlling a partially capitalist economy to do what it wanted it to do, that has done it.

    The CCP’s ideology, if it can be called anything would be called “Pragmatism”. Employ whatever works, but only insofar as it works to advance the country on the primary fronts the CCP has deemed desirable.

    Xi Jinping’s speech at the 20th group study session of the Political Bureau of the 18th CPC Central Committee on January 23, 2015 gives the wider view of how the Chinese system works:

    … we must refine our work through constant trials and adhere to the criteria of “three favorables”(namely determining whether what we do is favorable to growing the productive forces in a socialist society, increasing the overall strength of the socialist state, and raising people’s living standards); and that we must lay equal emphasis on material progress and cultural and ethical progress, “cross the river by feeling for the stones,” and balance the relationships between economic planning and the market and between allowing a few people to prosper first and ensuring that everyone prospers.

    It’s worth one’s time to read the whole thing.

    (Many people do not know what the 4 small stars on the PRC’s flag represent, namely the Workers, Peasants, Soldiers and Patriotic Capitalists.)

    I had always understood the 4th star to represent “Entrepreneurs”, but “Patriotic Capitalists” will do. It may be the literal translation of the Chinese. In fact, almost nobody in the West even knows there’s 4 stars, much less that they represent something.

    The results have astonished the world.

    People, including some on this and UR’s other China threads, simply have no way to fathom the scale and speed of China’s development. For almost 30 yrs I’ve watched it happen in real time and I’m not sure I believe it myself.

    Where 30 yrs ago, Guangzhou was a village of 10M people with unpaved roads and occasional electricity, a megapolis stands today with skyscrapers from horizon to horizon.

    40 yrs ago, barely 100k people lived in the area that is now Shenzhen, whereas now it is a modern city of ~12M. Where 30 yrs ago were scattered enclaves of lo-grade factories, and few functioning services Shenzhen stands today with 9 Metro lines (and more underway), a dozen highways (incl one off-shore), several hi-speed rail stations, a new ferry and tour boat terminal, a gigantic new airport and a skyline rivalling any city’s.

    There’s nothing like pragmatism to get things done, and there’s nothing as practical as a good theory. That’s true even if the theory is socio-political, apparently. I’ve concluded that harping on about “freedumbs” and “values” is a pile of crap. Get it done, let people build a future that takes care of them and their children, and the freedoms and values will take care of themselves. Take their future away from them, and you get malaise and that same pile of platitudinous crap.

    America harps on about freedom and values because its elites have usurped the peoples’ future for themselves. HK has taken up America’s cry for the very same reason.

    • Agree: Ron Unz
  129. Erebus says:
    @foolisholdman

    foolisholdman & d dan,

    Pay no attention to that Troll behind the curtain.

  130. Yee says:

    Wizard of Oz,

    “There were actual people living in Hong Kong, born there and escaped to there from a one party authoritarian state, and practically none of them wanted to be returned to Chinese rule.”

    Only problem with this assumption is that the older generations who actually “escaped from a one party authoritarian state” are pro-China.

    The rioters and their supporters are those who imagine they’re “Western” – the professional class (teachers, journalists, lawyers, doctors,) and students. They’re the CNN watching, NYT reading, enlighten “elites” of HongKong. But I’d call them victims of Western MSM.

  131. Erebus says:
    @denk

    The fact that China is on the way to the most xtianised country in the world send a cold chill down my spine.

    It is? Hong Kong is certainly very X-tian, with more than their fair share of “off-brand” X-tianity, but I’ve seen little sign that the mainland’s going the same route. Can you elaborate?

    I agree with you that [a] many of the so-called “English teachers” have a mediocre grasp of the language, and [b] that many, even most in my experience, love to parrot vague, progressive platitudes whether you want to hear them or not. I’ve learned how to shut them up. If they’re giving their students the same tripe in the classroom as I’ve heard outside, they ought indeed be shown the door.

    China doesnt need the Queen’s English to survive forchrissake, just ask the jps and KOreans.

    There we part ways. Ask the JPs and RKs and you won’t often get an answer because they won’t understand you. If you want the Chinese to be similarly insular and internationally awkward, sure cut them off from the world.

    Luckily, the Chinese govt is much smarter than that. It has set international goals for China and it knows that English will remain the international language for the foreseeable future. To reject it is to abandon their worldly ambitions. Nope, not gonna happen under the CCP.

    Zheng He’s fleet would have been celebrated under the CCP. It knows that only the short-sighted and insecure would burn it, again.

    • Replies: @denk
    , @Showmethereal
  132. d dan says:
    @Patricus

    “Funny, other places that experienced British colonialism seem to have done fairly well, Singapore, Australia, the United States and many more. ”

    Bangladesh? India? Iraq? Nigeria? Somalia and many more? Funny how apologist of colonialism picks and chooses data to put lipstick on a pig.

    “We eagerly await enlightened Chinese contributions to the world.”

    They already did, long before there was a country called Britain, with their inventions of paper making, gunpowder, compass, porcelain, silk, …

    • Agree: Iris
    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome
  133. @Patricus

    The “legacy of British colonialism” must have been unbearable for the innovative Chinese. Funny, other places that experienced British colonialism seem to have done fairly well, Singapore, Australia, the United States and many more. Colonialism may be lamentable but the Brits were probably not the worst.

    We eagerly await enlightened Chinese contributions to the world. Someday. Don’t expect this new flourishing all at once.

    India did not do so well. Americans had a revolution to get rid of the British colonists. And you do not have to eagerly wait. China, one fifth of the humanity, as well as their Belt and Road initiative, are doing quite well nowadays.

  134. @d dan

    Your arrogance is matched by your disrespect for actual people (neatly all Ham Chinese). Do you really think that strict law, treaty or naked power should prevail morally over what people want, people whom it is uttetly absurd to regard as braimwashed by a tiny hsndful of Brits in an environment when Hong Kong people were able to be better informed about China and the rest of tbe world than just about anyone else in the world?

    What you say about the British failure to offer citizenship is right IMO, but it has nothing to do with what is the morality of HK people being now dudded over the treatment they felt entitled to expect. The right thing,the moral thing surely would be for China to give the Hong Kingese 50 years (or more) of demicratic control of their government on the ine major cindition that Hong Kong did nothing to damage China’s security as if it could!).

    It is curiously unintelligent of the CCP to try and snuff out the diversity represented by Hong Kong and Taiwan when there is almost a scholarly consensus that the “European Miracle” during which Europe created the modern world while China stagnated had much to do with the competition within Europe under separate governments once the Catholic Church could no longer claim the position of ideological dominance which the CCP aspires to enforce on everyone, including non Han, within its power.

    • Troll: d dan
    • Replies: @Iris
    , @foolisholdman
  135. denk says:
    @Arioch

    A re-militarised Jp has been stoking the dormant Diaoyu issue, joining QUAD, the fukus led anti Chinese posse, in provocative war games at China’s doorsteps.

    To return the favor, China sent warships to ply the Jp Straits,.

    Here’ the joke….
    Tokyo couldnt do jackshit cuz the Chinese were in international water,…..all because the jps themselves ‘voluntarily’ shrunk their own territory water to please their murikkan daddies in the 70’s !

    LOL

    • LOL: Arioch
    • Replies: @d dan
  136. denk says:
    @Erebus

    Chinese xtrians are rising exponentially, a conservative estimate put the number at 40-100M, many people from China say churches are sprouting up in their home towns like mushrooms after a rainfall,
    https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/China-s-Christians-keep-the-faith-rattling-the-country-s-leaders

    40M mighr look small in a population of 13B, nonethless, in absolute terms its still a HUGE army of MKultraed zombies, ready to rise up at their mentors command.
    HK is a vivid example of the menace of religion driven color rev., another example is the notorious FLG cult,

    One more xtian, one less Chinese.

    This is a veritable time bomb ticking away in China…
    imagine HK protest x 40 !

    • Replies: @Erebus
  137. Iris says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    your disrespect for actual people (neatly all Ham Chinese).

    And what would that be, Wizard? Chinese in a burger?

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  138. Yee says:

    denk,

    “Chinese xtrians are rising exponentially, a conservative estimate put the number at 40-100M, many people from China say churches are sprouting up in their home towns like mushrooms after a rainfall,”

    Just imagine what Western people would say if 40-100M Whites become Muslims….

    I agree with you, denk, it’s worrying.

    • Replies: @Arioch
    , @denk
  139. @peterike

    What about the hundreds of millions of european colonizers who stole America from its RIGHTFUL owners the Native Americans?

  140. @Iris

    OK let’s correct the typo to “nearly all Han Chinese”.

  141. d dan says:
    @denk

    “A re-militarised Jp has been stoking the dormant Diaoyu issue, joining QUAD, the fukus led anti Chinese posse, in provocative war games at China’s doorsteps.”

    I think Japan may be feeling some sort of regret lately. They participated in China’s navy parade in Spring, and a Chinese destroyer just repaid them a visit a few days ago for Japan’s upcoming international fleet review.

    Meanwhile, US is so fed up with the invitation of China, they decided to send only one destroyer to take part in the Japanese review. This is in stark contrast to what US sent to South Korea’s event earlier this year, where almost the entire 7th fleet was participating.

    • Replies: @denk
  142. Arioch says:
    @Yee

    > Just imagine what Western people would say if 40-100M Whites become Muslims….

    I would ask what Muslims they are. Are they KSA-like Wahhabi or Iran-like Shia?

    Putting both into one bin just forces “false dichotomy” trap, forces to either accept ISIS and other Wahhabi or to antagonize and fight neighbors.

    Similarly, i find the linked article attempts at wide brush strokes and generalizing less than helpful.

    > But according to (US gov’t funded) U.S. human rights group, this number

    Gulp!

    > those belonging to “underground” or “house churches”

    Well, those can be Christians (in common meaning) too.
    But since USA GONGO are reporting, i would suspect they are at best as Christian as Mormons. Or maybe like Greek-Catholics and Ustashi blessing killing infidels. Or maybe even more exotic like

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Devi_Christos

    > about 60 to 80 million are Protestant and 12 million Catholic.

    Catholics are more or less one well-known organization. Though even there are/were factions like Greek-Catholics and Ustashi.
    Protestants might be but anything.

    > the party is trying to rein in the unsanctioned underground churches

    I like this “unsanctioned” implication.
    Soft propaganda.

    > dozens of mostly middle- and old-aged women gathered at a Protestant church

    Is it a typical church attended by women but not men?

    > when a U.S. clergyman arrived seeking to spread the faith.

    Oh, surprise!
    Now we see why USA GONGO cares so much, don’t we?

    > U.S. Vice President Mike Pence …… as many as 130 million Chinese Christians
    > ….eclipsing the roughly 90 million Communist Party members

    1. Just few lines above USA GONGO was estimating less than 100M Christians in China, which one is right?
    2. Did this article just say Christianity in China is a political party competing with CCP?

    > Large Christian populations can be found in ….. rural regions with large swathes of impoverished areas characterized by poor medical infrastructure.

    ….and of course US always cared deeply about problematic areas of foreign states. Just so happens.

    > In fact, the less-than-adequate access to proper medical care could be one factor behind the regions’ faith in Jesus.

    This was almost insulting. It is almost saying healthy people don’t go Christian.

    > but with one major caveat: “No one may make use of religion to engage in activities that disrupt public order, impair the health of citizens or interfere with the educational system of the state.”

    In what sense that is caveat? Is good religion to be kind of scientology murdering cultists but denying them even emergent medical aid? Is religion allowed in USA public schools? Will “disruption of public order” be welcomed in USA ?

    > A Catholic underground church overlooks the village of Huangtugang

    Guess this is one special definition of being underground!

    > harassment. A large sign has been erected next to the Haidian church …. admonishes citizens to “Follow the instructions and guidance of the Party.”

    Wow.

    > In addition, the church is surrounded by a fence and manned by a police officer, who checks the bags of people entering the premises.

    What about public schools in USA then? Harassment? Cracking down by DC regime?

    • Replies: @denk
  143. Arioch says:

    > Half a year after Japan launched a new work visa to fill spots in labor-short industries, not even 400 applicants have been approved

    > But only 376 people had received the new visas as of Sept. 27. More than 2,000 applications are under review…

    > The government’s original plans for about 40,000 approvals in the program’s first year appear out of reach

    https://web.archive.org/web/20191012071819/https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Japan-immigration/Japan-cries-Help-wanted-but-few-foreigners-heed-the-call

    Does not look like people of the region still saw Japan as lighthouse on a hill…

  144. dvorak says:

    The author might have mentioned the mass immigration of Mandarin-speakers to Hong Kong. 20% of current residents can’t speak Cantonese.

    Young men don’t like it when foreigners flood their territory.

    • Replies: @Erebus
  145. Erebus says:
    @denk

    That Nikkei article seemed a little confused when it wasn’t being coyly vague, frankly.

    All of the (3) Chinese X-tians I know are successful, mid-career types who are definitively not the type to go a’rioting on Saturday afternoons. Hardly MK-Ultra’d, they are no threat to the CCP, but I realize that the sample is basically useless in saying anything about what the rest are like.

    As for the FLG loonies, the CCP’s concern would lie with any religious movement that can be co-opted by demagoguery, and manipulated by hostile powers for political ends. The FLG is, of course, just such a movement. Being wholly secular, the CCP is vulnerable to the irrationality and emotionalism that underlie religious movements, and knows the dangers of such movements when they go political.

    The CCP remembers the Taiping Rebellion which took ~20M lives in 14 yrs of fighting, and greatly weakened the Qing Dynasty. That ain’t gonna be allowed to happen again if the CCP has any say about it.

    • Replies: @denk
  146. @Showmethereal

    The Jews were the top generals of the Opium Wars. The Brits and Triads were their lowly foot soldiers.

    • Replies: @Showmethereal
  147. Vidi says:
    @Pheasant

    why do Chinese export thier wealth to western countries

    Chinese criminals like to export their wealth to Western banks, beyond the reach of China’s government.

    The honest people prefer to keep their wealth in China, beyond the reach of Donald Trump. For example, Jack Ma (the retired CEO of Alibaba) is probably the richest man in China, and he keeps his wealth in the country.

    • Replies: @gmachine1729
  148. Erebus says:
    @dvorak

    20% of current residents can’t speak Cantonese.

    Most of the 1.5M (the 20%) mainland immigrants came in on family reunion visas.

    That means they would largely have come from Guangdong, speaking Guangdonghua (aka, Cantonese). That they also speak Mandarin doesn’t mean they can’t speak Cantonese, so one wonders where your information comes from.

    What HK-ers seem to resent is that they speak Cantonese with a Guangdong rather than HK accent. Sorta like NY-ers hating the Irish accent when they first started coming in in droves.

    Young men don’t like it when foreigners flood their territory.

    Maybe so, if they’re HK-ese. If they’re American/German/British/Dutch/Canadian/etc, they seem quite willing to cede their ground.

    • Replies: @Showmethereal
    , @dvorak
  149. Vidi says:
    @Escher

    The author does make some good points, but he loses a lot of credibility with his unthinking China worship, just like Godfree Roberts.

    You can’t handle a small dose of truth if it’s about China? Even tiny deviations from the Western party line render Vltchek and Roberts non-credible to you? If the overwhelming bulk of what they say is true, you show your bias if you believe that that truth is “unthinking China worship”.

    A balanced portrayal of reality, including the problems within China will go a long way in convincing skeptics.

    If reality is far closer to what Roberts, Vltchek, and Unz report, compared to what the MSM “reports”, what kind of “balance” would be valid to you? If the truth were heavily on China’s side, do you want these authors to lie? Should they restore an apparent “balance” by putting their thumbs on the other side of the scale?

  150. @Vidi

    You idiot. Alibaba is listed on the NY Stock Exchange (or some other US stock exchange). Ask yourself where that money is, in China or in the West.

    Why do you think he’s retired? Because the people in political power in China want him out. The SCMP that Alibaba owns is banned.

    More on this here:
    https://gmachine1729.com/2019/10/10/some-quick-thoughts-on-this-nba-china-fiasco/

    你是什么人呢,在哪里,有在中国待过么?

    Hong Kong never really had that much real value from what I can tell. It was mostly a trading/port city built for British/Western interests. There was no serious technology/industry there. Some idiot American girl in high school talked about how Hong Kong, due to British colonialism, is so modern (in comparison to mainland China), which is narcissistic Anglo bullshit.

    The most modern city in what is the area of mainland China today in the 1940s was probably Changchun, in Manchuria, with much of it built under the Japanese puppet Manchukuo. Before the Japanese took it over, Manchuria was arguably already the most modern part of China, it was run by the warlord Zhang Zuolin who the Japanese assassinated in the late 20s. The Japanese and Russians built much more real industry in the areas they colonized in China than did the Anglos or French.

    To be fair, the industrial output and level of modernity of Manchuria may even have been close to that of Japan proper by the 1940s (maybe even exceeded), it was producing actually genuinely high tech stuff in large volumes, of course, the Japanese controlled it, but they were still minority and the Chinese there working for Manchukuo much have gained substantial industrial experience. After the Soviet Red Army took over Manchuria from the Japanese Kwantung Army in August-September 1945, they took away the best stuff. Trains packed with dissembled high-end equipment and facilities went across the Trans-Siberians Railroad day and night for several months after. Even after that, Manchuria was still much more advanced than rest of China, in terms of its industrial facilities/output and also of course the technical know-how of the people there. I remember reading that Manchukuo alone produced about 80% of the electricity, steel, etc of all of what is part of China today in ~ 1944. Taiwan accounted for about 10% according to such estimates.

    Standard of living is not the same as real economic power or modernity. It’s flash vs substance. Most people only see the former.

    Also, all else being roughly equivalent, I’d without hesitation prefer to be ruled by Japanese than by Anglos. If I speak Japanese fluently and am well versed in the culture and have a Japanese name, I can easily feign Japanese. I can’t feign Anglo no matter how “Westernized” I am. In Manchukuo, they still used mostly Chinese because most of the people there were ethnic Chinese.

    China has been ruled by foreigners before. But they were yellow foreigners who eventually merged into the Chinese culture. The Xianbei of the Northern Wei from the 4th to 6th China that ruled Northern China. The Jurchens which founded the Jin Dynasty that ruled Northern China that was later conquered by the Mongols who eventually conquered all of Southern China too. Then then the Manchus. The Xianbei are long gone and assimilated, the Mongols are marginal now, and the Manchus don’t really even have their own language anymore. As for the Japanese, their relative population with respect to Chinese was much higher compared to the ancient cases of conquest, 80 million vs 450 million, and it was also the modern era, with circumstances very different. Still, they can’t rule China alone without recruiting many Chinese to work for them, setting up puppet regime, which requires some degree of Sinicization on their part.

    The best of mainland China by late or even mid 1950s was already way more advanced/modern than Hong Kong. Just five years of industrialization with Soviet aid brought China leaps and bounds ahead. And this time, it was entirely Chinese running China, not Japanese or Russians or Anglos. Of course, the HK people had higher standard of living and more superficial status than the people in the most advanced cities in mainland China but so what. China in 1950 could have taken Hong Kong. Would suffer more backlash from British and West, resulting in more economic sanctions and more difficult development later on, but so what. Survival far from at stake here.

    Some idiot Chinese-American once said that me that South Korea and Japan’s being far ahead of mainland China that “failed with communism” is something I should be ashamed of. He’s ridiculous! Japan was fully conquered by US and to lesser extent by Soviet Union. Now, Japan is a semi-colony of US without independent foreign policy. South Korea had to have America save its ass from the North Korean army. PRC on the other hand pretty much forced US to sign a ceasefire in a major war where US formally to the entire world acknowledged the territory of North Korea to be fully in the Chinese (and Soviet) sphere of influence. South Korea and Japan are only higher in China in more superficial ways, and over the past 30 years, China has gone a long way and is starting to surpass them even in many consumer tech products. HK, Singapore, Taiwan are basically not even worth mentioning in comparison.

    • Replies: @Showmethereal
    , @Vidi
    , @anon
  151. @Erebus

    Indeed… Most people have no clue whatsoever about China except what they hear via rumor. They have no clue that more mainlanders speak Cantonese on the mainland than in Hong Kong since they have no clue “Canton” is Guangzhou. They also have no clue there are many languages in China besides Cantonese and Mandarin. I am all for preserving languages (I have Hakka heritage which has its own language) – but this chauvinism needs to stop. Singapore has it figured out and so does Taiwan… So what is the problem in Hong Kong?

  152. @gmachine1729

    Much of what you wrote is correct – except about Jack Ma. He is still a big celebrity. People wanting him out is a rumor. He is helping transform the education system in China now that he’s retired. He hasn’t been put on the shelf. It is no coincidence he waited until after he retired to say that he is a Party member. He knew that would affect his business overseas. He is no dummy.
    As to the rest of what you said – the main reason Japan wanted the Manchuria region of China was for resources and opium production. It looted thousands of TONS of gold. It took every other precious metal as fuel for its Asia conquest plans. It then industrialized it and Taiwan to produce opium. Under the Japanese those thwo territories became the top opium producing places in the world.
    You are correct though that like other foreigners the Japanese realized they needed to use Chinese to run the place. On the mainland they faced more resistance from the warlords (and then the communists) than in Taiwan. Thats why there was the big issue of martial law and the “white terror” in Taiwan once the Republic of China set up ahop in Taipei after losing the mainland. After 50 years of subjugation and then interbreeding (with some) there were a fair amou t of Japanese collaborators on the island. Some even fought for Japan against the “allies”. Their descendants now form the DPP party in Taiwan who opposes the “Chinese” KMT.

  153. @MAOWASAYALI

    What is with the incessant blaming of Jews for everything?? John Jacob Astor got rich trading opium to China too. So did Mr Delano – grandfather of president FDR. Many more did also. Many US top flight universities were funded by the opium dealing im China. Universities that didnt even admit Jews at the time.

    • Replies: @Logan
  154. @Erebus

    Correct about Zheng He and his fleet. China had the most advanced navy in the world under the Ming dynasty. The emperor foolishly shut down naval expeditions which then allowed Europe to catch up. China shut itself off so it missed the industrial revolution. Then unlike the Japanese the Qing still refused to acknowledge what was going and by the time the reforms began the country was falling apart. These historical facts are studied widely in China. They also studied hard the collapse of the Soviet Union. Today’s CCP is not the party of the days of the Cultural Revolution. Belt and Road is specifically about those issues reaching back to the former prosperous eras.

  155. @d dan

    their inventions of paper making, gunpowder, compass, porcelain, silk,

    No, they didn’t.

  156. d dan says:

    their inventions of paper making, gunpowder, compass, porcelain, silk,

    “No, they didn’t.”

    So, let me guess. You believe they were “invented” by white people, right?

    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome
  157. denk says:
    @d dan

    At the same time playing up the yellow peril meme again…
    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/27/japan-promotes-china-as-bigger-threat-than-north-korea.html

    Pale face speak with forked tongues,
    JP are honorable white men.
    China should never let off its guard when dealing with pale face, whether the original or fake variety !

  158. denk says:
    @Yee

    In case you miss this,
    Its about occupy centre HK 2014,
    A xtian crusade, manipulated from abroad of course.
    http://www.reformation21.org/blog/2014/10/a-thought-about-the-umbrella-m.php

    IN its sequel 2019, the churches are again playing a major role , in organisation, logistics and harbouring rioters on the run.
    In many cases xtian cadres are on the ground ostensibly as mediators, , while actually serve as human shield for the rioters .

  159. denk says:
    @Erebus

    NIkkei a typical anti Chinese rag.

    If you key in ‘China , christians’, this is the kind of craps served up by google , page after page after page….
    our friend onebornfucked here cant seem to have enough of it tho,
    ehheheh

    * but I realize that the sample is basically useless in saying anything about what the rest are like.*

    I happen to know lots of xtians.
    GUess what do their pastors tell them in their sunday sessions, ?
    Evil CCP persecutes innocent church goers !
    Many of the sob stories are practically copy and paste from the likes of Nikkei, NYT, WSJ, Guardian……..

    I challenge them why does gawd condone such evil as Mh370, they say some time gawd gather a bunch of sinners together and serve them their just deserts. !
    OMFG !

    These are de facto MKultra’d zombies, they’ll jump over a cliff if given the command.

    • Replies: @Erebus
  160. denk says:
    @Arioch

    LOL !

    Jp MSM is of course a wing of the west’s mighty wurlitzer.
    That NIkkei story is a typical ‘evil CCP’ agitprop.

    jeeze !
    Those gawdless chicoms really suck , they persecute Bhudists, MUslims, xtians……hell they even eat dogs !

    Fact is, ‘gawdless’ CCP is very tolerant of religions, as long as they dont break the law and sow social unrest.
    Churches are ok , only unregistered underground outfits are banned.
    Why do churches wanna go underground in the first place,
    something to hide perhaps ?

    Yet this is hyped as one of CCP’S seven deadly sins in the fukus MSM.

    • Replies: @Arioch
  161. Logan says:
    @Showmethereal

    I watched about five minutes of the video. Gave up after half a dozen flat-out lies.

    Everybody is entitled to their own opinions, but not to their own facts.

    • Replies: @MAOWASAYALI
  162. Vidi says:
    @gmachine1729

    You idiot. Alibaba is listed on the NY Stock Exchange (or some other US stock exchange). Ask yourself where that money is, in China or in the West.

    Neither China nor the West. Most of Jack Ma’s net worth is from his ownership of 8% of Alibaba’s stock. He does not have to sell that stock in the West. Even if he did sell the stock for Western currency, he would be foolish to keep the proceeds in the West, where Trump can steal it.

    • Replies: @gmachine1729
  163. @Logan

    The Sassoons were Jews and made their fortune in the China opium trade.

    Granted, this is not a well-known fact, but it is not controversial. Even the heavily censored and pro-Zionist reference site Wikipedia admits this. Cf. Sassoon family

    The truth is at your fingertips and only a few mouse clicks away. Don’t be so damn lazy, man. Use the Internet!

  164. Vidi says:
    @Hippopotamusdrome

    their inventions of paper making, gunpowder, compass, porcelain, silk,

    “No, they didn’t.”

    So, let me guess. You believe they were “invented” by white people, right?

    Yes.

    So when did the whites supposedly invent paper making, gunpowder, compass, porcelain, et cetera? Show some evidence, with dates of invention.

    I guarantee, whatever dates you can credibly cite for the West, I can cite an earlier date for these inventions in China.

    For example, in the West, Johannes Gutenberg gets the credit for inventing the printing press around 1450 AD. However, a copy of the Diamond Sutra in the British Library (link) proves that China had the printing press by 868 AD.

    By not giving proper credit, Westerners are basically stealing these inventions from China. Which is why the Chinese laugh at accusations that China is stealing Western technology — for the West has stolen far more. China’s four great inventions (printing, paper, gunpowder, compass) were not minor; they completely changed the West. As the great scholar Francis Bacon wrote in 1620,

    Printing, gunpowder and the compass: These three have changed the whole face and state of things throughout the world; the first in literature, the second in warfare, the third in navigation; whence have followed innumerable changes, in so much that no empire, no sect, no star seems to have exerted greater power and influence in human affairs than these mechanical discoveries.
    — Francis Bacon, Novum Organum, 1620.

    • Replies: @Arioch
    , @Marcus
  165. Erebus says:
    @denk

    These are de facto MKultra’d zombies, they’ll jump over a cliff if given the command.

    Well then, one can hope that such a command goes out and the problem solves itself.

    More seriously, assuming what you say is true I agree that China has to keep a sharp eye on this.

    The nutcase Evangelicals in the US have been channelled into supporting Zio-American Imperialism. One can argue that they’re acting against America’s real national interests, but the Empire’s lifespan is enhanced and so they’re suffered gladly by America’s rulers.

    However, as all the organized religions in China are of foreign origin they are particularly susceptible to their adherents being channelled against not only China’s national interests, but its geo-political interests as well.

    Not sure I’d want to see it, but one wonders whether the CCP wouldn’t be well advised to more overtly promote Confucianism, or perhaps Taoism as a more “Chinese” way of addressing peoples’ spiritual needs. They apparently have such needs, so leaving it up to demagogues and charlatans to fill them is to ask for political trouble later.

  166. Arioch says:
    @denk

    Poor little ever-threatened ‘Murica.

    Back then it was a Lord driven land with Manifest Destiny as their partyline. They were saving the world against godless commies of USSR and PRC.
    The world was greatful and life was glorious.

    Now they have to be a modern secular culture when fighting evil neo-Christian tyranny of Putin and they have to be faithful Lord servants when fighting ugly godless chicoms!

    And that at the same time!
    Plurality of voices in one head is usually termed split personality disorder….

  167. Arioch says:
    @Vidi

    > China’s four great inventions (printing, paper, gunpowder, compass) were not minor; they completely changed the West.

    That can only be true if they were exported from China to Westa like umbrellas were.

    But weren’t those four independebtly discovered in West?
    Those were ages long long before internet abd even international paper mail.

    • Replies: @Showmethereal
  168. @Vidi

    我真有点好奇,你这人哪儿长大的,现在在哪儿啊

  169. Jason Liu says:

    Maybe, but it’s not the main reason behind the protests. Hong Kongers view themselves as more civilized people and hate the “rude, uncouth mainlanders”, and this perception has not changed even as the mainland became richer.

  170. @Arioch

    This is not the first era of globalization. The former Silk Roads meant loads and loads of things were passes from society to society. That was also true of shipping routes. Technology didnt change as fast as it does since the industrial revolution – but it most certainly did. Those werent the only things from China the west adopted. Certain things with ship technology – metallurgy and even food. Johnny Appleseed wouldnt be known if apples didnt make their way out of China. Likewise oranges and even kiwi. There were many many things.
    Not just China either. People forget a lot of the contributions of even Persia to western society.

    • Replies: @Vidi
  171. Arioch says:

    Apples or chihuahua are not technology. You get seeds, you plant, they grow. You don’t have to know genetics and biochemistry.

    With powder it is different. Either you can get the formula – and then it would surface in Europe in armies not monasteries. Or you can get only fairy tails about how fireworks look from afar, and then it is co-invention.

    • Replies: @Vidi
  172. anon[837] • Disclaimer says:
    @gmachine1729

    I’m quite surprised you’d prefer to be ruled by Japanese than Anglos. Most Chinese I’ve met seem to have a dislike for other Asian peoples while being subservient towards Westerners. Also many Chinese seem to be anti-Japanese above all else, while still being positive towards US and UK.

    • Replies: @gmachine1729
  173. Vidi says:
    @Showmethereal

    This is not the first era of globalization. The former Silk Roads meant loads and loads of things were passes from society to society. That was also true of shipping routes. Technology didnt change as fast as it does since the industrial revolution – but it most certainly did. Those werent the only things from China the west adopted. Certain things with ship technology – metallurgy and even food. Johnny Appleseed wouldnt be known if apples didnt make their way out of China. Likewise oranges and even kiwi. There were many many things.

    Indeed.

    The West took the four great inventions from China, and probably thousands more — without giving China any credit at all. Dinner forks, wheelbarrows, even dental floss came from China, but do you see any Westerners thank the country that made those inventions? Of course not.

    (Yes, the dinner fork was invented in China (link; the Qijia culture mentioned in the article was in the Yellow River region, which is inside modern China). The Westerners probably think that eating with a knife and fork is quintessentially a Western thing, but forks were invented in China.)

  174. Vidi says:
    @Arioch

    With [gunpowder] it is different. Either you can get the formula – and then it would surface in Europe in armies not monasteries. Or you can get only fairy tails about how fireworks look from afar, and then it is co-invention.

    Europeans didn’t learn about gunpowder from tales; they saw it up close and personal. The Mongols used gunpowder to win the Battle of Mohi in 1241 (link). This was the principle battle between the Mongol Empire and the West.

    With the huge advantage that gunpoweder gave them, the Mongols would have continued to crush what was left of Western civilization if Ogotai Khan hadn’t died, obliging the victorious hordes to return to Mongolia for a power struggle.

    You can be sure that gunpowder made a memorable impression on the Europeans, making them determined to get it at any cost.

    I doubt that the West re-invented the explosive formulation, as the combination (sulfur, charcoal, saltpeter) isn’t obvious. The only reasonable explanation for why the Western gunpowder was basically the same as Chinese gunpowder is that the West got the formula from China.

  175. @Vidi

    我记得读到穆斯林人在八世纪一场在中亚的战役俘虏了一些唐朝人,其中有会造纸术的,并将其技术教给了穆斯林,之后穆斯林将其传到欧洲。

    The battle in Central Asia in 8th century that led to the spread of papermaking to the West.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Talas
    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Таласская_битва
    https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/怛罗斯战役

    @Vidi 你在哪里长大的?

  176. @anon

    That’s because the Chinese in the Anglo world and in the English language press (including the immigrants or wannabe immigrants from PRC) that are the Chinese you meet are a self-selected political extremity from the Chinese population.

    • Replies: @anon
  177. Marcus says:
    @Anonymous

    They aren’t cancelling it, the NBA is grovelling to the PRC and individual players like Lebron are kowtowing as well so that their shoes will continue to sell in the biggest market of the world (the dumbarse writer’s socialist utopia)

  178. anon[837] • Disclaimer says:
    @gmachine1729

    I think you’re greatly underestimating how many Chinese are white-worshipping pussies. You’re the first Chinese person I’ve seen who is different lol. I’ve been to mainland China before, and they treat all non-Asians better than ABCs or other Asians, even filthy Africans. Chinese people are absolutely pathetic man, I think you know where I’m coming from. That’s why I don’t see a rising China as some kind of blessing for Asian-Americans. Matter of fact, an Asian male is better off working out and becoming an aggressive psychopath himself than moving back to Asia or cheerleading China. I used to be pro-China before seeing what Chinese people and society was really like. I don’t take any shit from non-Asians in America, fuck them all and their families.

  179. Marcus says:
    @Vidi

    What a load of bs, the printing press wasn’t introduced to east Asia until much later by missionaries in Japan and Macau. Gunpowder was gradually diffused to the West, not directly from China, and by the 15th century, Europeans gunpowder weaponry far outstripped China. Likewise the Chinese compass was completely different from what European navigators would use. The Chinese still thought the Earth was flat before Jesuits proved otherwise to them in the 17th century btw

    • Replies: @Showmethereal
    , @Vidi
    , @Biff
  180. @Marcus

    I dont think you get the point. Whether they got it crom China directly or a century of two later from intermidiaries (some salt tunneling techniques and certain ship tech as well) – the Chinese invented them and they were later appropriated by the west.
    I bet you think “the west” came up with the scientific method too huh? It wasnt the Chinese – but it wasnt Europeans either. There are hundreds more examples. The Roman Empire was not the most advanced civilization it its day either. Western tech being at the apex is the last 400-500 years and that apex is apparently ending.

    • Replies: @Marcus
  181. Marcus says:
    @Showmethereal

    So you don’t know what appropriation is, ok. In any case, Europeans were far ahead of Chinese or anyone else in firearms by the 15th century (the cannons that breached the walls of Constantinople were built by a Hungarian). As far as I know, Galileo or Bacon are credited with the scientific method. I’m not sure what criteria you’d use to determine something as nebulous as “most advanced” but I don’t see much in China, India or anywhere to match Greco-Roman art, architecture, literature, medicine, etc. Look at Roman surgical tools, the aqueducts, the parthenon, the Trophy of Augustus, etc. It’s very possible that India had some wonders that were obliterated by Muslim invasions, but unfortunately we’ll never know just what they were (Herodotus and Thucydides created the historical method, and our earliest sources on Indian history are Greco-Romans). China’s terra cotta soldiers were likely inspired by contact with the Greeks, and they had a similar effect on Indian art. Chinese philosophy was dry and idiomatic, with none of the depth of that of the Greco-Romans. I’d also say that Medieval Europe was at least as “advanced” than its contemporaries, look at the epic cathedrals and castles, the agricultural revolution there or compare perspective of its art to contemporaries. Europeans built this hundreds of miles away from Europe in a hostile, arid land

    • Replies: @Vidi
  182. Vidi says:
    @Marcus

    What a load of bs, the printing press wasn’t introduced to east Asia until much later by missionaries in Japan and Macau.

    The BS smell comes from you, not me.

    Explain the Diamond Sutra in the British Library (link). The document ends with “On the 15th day of the 4th month of the 9th year of the Xiantong reign period, Wang Jie had this made for universal distribution on behalf of his two parents”. That conclusively dates the printing of the Sutra to May 11, 868 AD.

    Then there is the Buddhist text (with an illustration of Manjusri) in the British Museum (link), which is dated to the 10th century AD.

    Do you have any credible date for a printed work that’s earlier than these two?

    By the way, you are very typical of the West. Not only do you refuse to credit China for the printing press, you are extremely hostile to the idea (“What a load of bs”). You are basically stealing what is possibly the most important invention ever.

    I won’t bother to respond to the rest of your comment.

  183. Vidi says:
    @Marcus

    In any case, Europeans were far ahead of Chinese or anyone else in firearms by the 15th century (the cannons that breached the walls of Constantinople were built by a Hungarian)

    That a Hungarian built the cannons is not surprising, as the Battle of Muhi in 1241 — that the Mongols won with the help of gunpowder weapons — was near the village of Muhi, in the area known as Hungary today.

    • Replies: @Marcus
    , @gmachine1729
  184. Marcus says:
    @Vidi

    Uh, no. The Chinese (or earlier European, Mideastern, etc.) printers did not have presses. The first printing presses in China were introduced by the Portuguese in the early 19th century in Macau, from which it spread to Hong Kong
    https://industrialhistoryhk.org/a-study-of-the-hongkong-printing-press-part-1/

    And yes, the Chinese thought the Earth was square until Jesuits showed them otherwise in the 17th century
    http://europe.chinadaily.com.cn/epaper/2018-03/02/content_35770099.htm

    • Replies: @Vidi
  185. Marcus says:
    @Vidi

    Derp, the siege of Constantinople was two centuries later. Various European powers (see France in the latter Hundred Years War) were producing armaments that far outstripped what the Mongols could’ve brought to bear. Otoh Japan did become a large scale producer of excellent small arms and artillery that the Koreans and Chinese couldn’t match

  186. Vidi says:
    @Marcus

    Uh, no. The Chinese (or earlier European, Mideastern, etc.) printers did not have presses. The first printing presses in China were introduced by the Portuguese in the early 19th century in Macau, from which it spread to Hong Kong

    Absolute nonsense. The Portuguese didn’t arrive in East Asia until about the 16th century AD; I gave you proof of works printed in China in the 9th and 10th centuries AD. Refute those proofs with credible information, if you can.

  187. Biff says:
    @Marcus

    What a load of bs, the printing press wasn’t introduced to east Asia until much later by missionaries in Japan and Macau.

    Because you were there…

  188. @Vidi

    那么认同中国就努力争取回到中国发展吧,然后你会发现在Unz Review上与这些人争论毫无意义。:)

    用英文来说,

    Arguing in somebody else’s language on somebody else’s media against people who hate you is as losing game.

    • Replies: @anon
  189. anon[837] • Disclaimer says:
    @gmachine1729

    I’ve checked out your website, and it’s quite obvious you’re a Chinese asset. Stop trying to paint the PRC as something its not. Chinese people are not to woke to anything except their own money and kissing ass of Westerners. If you like your life in China then enjoy yourself, but you’re misleading ABCs and other Asians living in Western countries down a dangerous path. Chinese would rather hire a fucking African to teach English instead of fully qualified Americans of Asian descent. Fuck off with your fake propaganda.

  190. @nsa

    Speak English if your comment is worthwhile. The children’s section is closed today.

  191. Smith says:

    Adult workers are turning out too.

    It’s over for China, western corporations (Apple, Blizzard, NBA) and any 5th column worldwide.

    The chinks will be crying CIA, but the difference between this and Venezuela is gargantuan. This, as I have said, is the Yellow Vest to the chinks.

  192. zogborg [AKA "xi ping pong"] says:

    China embarrasses all Asians who have pride and dignity. It’s a shame the Japanese couldn’t finish off those ugly insects. It’s funny China cries CIA, but all Chinese elites want to move to America, and Chinese women love sucking white cock.

  193. Vidi says:
    @Commentator Mike

    It depends what you define as a printing press.

    https://interestingengineering.com/the-invention-and-history-of-the-printing-press

    If you are losing, move the goal posts.

    I dare anyone find a document printed outside China that has been reliably dated earlier than the Diamond Sutra in the British Library (868 AD).

    I also find amusing the enormous resistance in the West against acknowledging China’s invention of the printing press — the most important invention ever.

    • Agree: d dan
  194. @Vidi

    The Mongols used gunpowder to win the Battle of Mohi in 1241 (link)

    The Mongols style of warfare with mobile horse armies living off the land couldn’t include lugging around a siege train of medieval bombards. And it wasn’t until much later that cannons improved to be used against troops in the field, only for breaching castle walls at this time.

    From the article:

    Several modern historians have speculated that Chinese firearms and gunpowder weapons were deployed by the Mongols

    So thats all we have?

    The most consistent exceptions to this rule were stone castles, which were well-provisioned, hard to take, and left the Mongols little food to forage from the surroundings. Only five stone castles were located east of the Danube, all deep behind Mongol lines; none of them fell.

    Hmmmm. If only the Mongols had some tool to get through a castles impervious stone walls…

    I know! They could have built a wooden rabbit and left it outside the gate and wait for the Hungarians to push it inside to use for Easter celebrations. Then Batu and Subuta and Shiban wait until nightfall and then sneak out of the rabbit and taking the Hungarians by suprise, and not only by surprise but completely unarmed!

  195. @Vidi

    Explain the Diamond Sutra in the British Library (link).

    I’ll try to. It’s because Europeans invented “musuems” and “archaeology”. That’s why all the world’s artefacts are sequestered in European museums. The Emperor of China at the time couldn’t care less about some moldy old Bhuddist scrolls in a cave in the desert. That’s why British antiquity collecters were allowed to take the whole cache out of China for £220. And other news ISIS militants destroy antiquities with sledgehammer – CNN …

    Actually, j/k

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  196. @Hippopotamusdrome

    Hippo,

    The British Museum – what they couldn’t buy they’d steal or steal anyway.

    Some claim Sweden is not much better than ISIS, ordering the destruction of Viking artifacts. Don’t know if those reports were true or a false news attack on their black minister. The way they’re going they’ll be a caliphate soon enough.

    https://www.ancientworldreview.com/2017/08/sweden-destroying-archaeological-finds.html

  197. dvorak says:
    @Erebus

    That they also speak Mandarin doesn’t mean they can’t speak Cantonese, so one wonders where your information comes from.

    I stand corrected, thanks.

  198. @SOL

    More pro-China garbage from Unz.com? Is this supposed to reflect the viewpoint of the owner?

    I have just visited the site called American Renaissance, they have a review of a “really scary” book about China’s plans for World Domination. The author who though apparently a Catholic, has a very Jewish name has written an even scarier book since. (Mentioned in one of the comments on the article.) Judging by the tone of most of the comments on the article, I think you would feel more at home there.

  199. @Wizard of Oz

    What about asking for all documents (scil. prepared by public servantscor others whose records are subject to FOI ) which contain records of or refer to discussions with ministers by persons with commercial interests – or interests in foreign relations as evidenced by their membership ofcor representing A**** or A** or…?

    The problem is that to do that you would have to get legislation passed and that would be opposed by those who want to buy politicians and civil servants. It might be possible if you had the wholehearted support of the media. If….

  200. @Wizard of Oz

    It is curiously unintelligent of the CCP to try and snuff out the diversity represented by Hong Kong and Taiwan when there is almost a scholarly consensus that the “European Miracle” during which Europe created the modern world while China stagnated had much to do with the competition within Europe under separate governments once the Catholic Church could no longer claim the position of ideological dominance which the CCP aspires to enforce on everyone, including non Han, within its power.

    Give over, do! This is not the “CCP trying to snuff out the diversity etc.!” This is a bog-standard Color Revolution, anyone who cannot see that is looking the other way. The CIA even has a how-to handbook on the subject and it is being followed to the letter.

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