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Craig McKee Disputes “Big Plane DID Hit Pentagon” Revisionists
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Craig McKee of Truth and Shadows discusses the question of what really happened to the Pentagon on 9/11. All serious researchers agree that the official story—that hijacker-pilot Hani Hanjour, who couldn’t solo in a Cessna training aircraft, took over a 757 and performed an amazing stunt flight beyond the capabilities of professional pilots—is a load of rubbish. But did a big plane even impact the Pentagon? Last May’s Denver Conference featured revisionists who say “yes.” Craig McKee begs to disagree.

Craig supplies these links to articles relevant to the discussion:

http://truthandshadows.com/2019/03/20/lloyde-englands-tall-pentagon-tale-part-1/

http://truthandshadows.com/2019/04/28/coste-chandler-fraud-about-england-part-2/

http://truthandshadows.com/2017/12/29/chandlers-failed-pentagon-methodology/

http://truthandshadows.com/2018/09/04/cabal-props-up-pentagon-official-story/

http://truthandshadows.com/2019/02/13/most-persistent-911-threat/

http://truthandshadows.com/2017/12/11/the-no-757-hit-the-pentagon-list/

(Republished from Truth Jihad by permission of author or representative)
 
• Category: Foreign Policy, History • Tags: 9/11, Conspiracy Theories 
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  1. Gall says:

    It was obviously a DU tipped AGM that struck the Pentagon and probably WTCs 1&2. The media used video fakery to cover it up.

  2. Vinnie O says:

    I was working in DC on an FAA project on 9/11. I was living and still live across the river in Northern Virginia. One of the soccer moms from my son’s soccer team WATCHED the airliner crash in the parking lot and bounce against the Pentagon. Close friends of one my friends in Maryland DIED on the airliner (father, mother, young child). Were ALL of the passengers and crew seized at National Airport and shot in the woods somewhere? What is the alternate explanation for the COMPLETE disappearance of the passengers and crew?

    When I finally got a train back home, I could still see the column of smoke and SMELL the fires from several miles away. So SOMEBODY had clearly set SOMETHING on fire over there.

    People who REFUSE, regardless of evidence, to accept that an airliner on a regularly scheduled flight crashed at the Pentagon on 9/11 are lunatics. It does a GREAT disservice to REAL instances of coverups by The People in Charge of Things (e.g., TWA Flight 800) to talk nonsense about the UNQUESTIONABLE events on 9/11.

    There are clearly unanswered questions about what all happened on 9/11 and who was IN CHARGE of the various attacks. But as with ordinary office workers at the Twin Towers, innocent Americans DIED at the Pentagon on 9/11. And the question to be pursued is “WHO WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR DEATHS?” Mindlessly declaring that thousands of Americans did NOT die on 9/11 is the lowest, most insulting piece of stupidity I can imagine.

  3. nsa says:

    Pics of the initial 20′ diameter hole in the Pentagon facade are still available on the internet. The supposed jetliner’s wings, engines, fin, rudder, elevators, landing gear could not have fit through the 20′ hole……..so what happened to them? Where are the cadavers? The pics could easily be pulled, but the PTBs prefer to leave them up just to taunt the few remaining investigators.

    • Agree: Gall
  4. Gall says:
    @Vinnie O

    You base this on what? One eye witness account. First there is no evidence that a plane crashed into the Pentagon’s parking lot, bounced and skipped across the Pentalawn into the Pentagon. No cars in the parking lot were damaged or destroyed and the Pentalawn was so immaculate that you play golf on it.

    I’ve read some of these what I consider suspicious “I was there accounts” and they for the most part counter actual eye witness accounts that show only a small minority actually saw a large passenger plane strike the Towers. For instance initial reports on Tower 1 conveyed to Bush while he was at Parkland Elementary School said it was a “small twin engined plane”. Building 2 only 20% of the witnesses say they saw a large commercial aircraft strike the tower. This was after their perception of events was contaminated by questionable “live” video of the event. Finally for the Pentagon even though witnesses say they saw what looked like a 757 in the vicinity none of them (except this “witness” obviously) actually saw it hit the Pentagon.

    Saying something is true and proving it are two different things otherwise it is nothing but hearsay.

    Evidence based on the Scientific Method prove that an aluminum plane could not have penetrated the World Trade Centers and the Pentagon.

    Here is just one example:

    As far as tugging on the heart strings of anybody who doesn’t accept the official story. Gimme a break. Disputing that crock of excrement known as the 9/11 Report, the NIST and FEMA “studies” does not sully the memory of those who died. In fact not questioning the official story does that more than anything else.

    Not only that but not questioning the official story sullies the memory of those who died in the needless wars that followed.

    • Agree: Mulegino1, Iris
  5. Alfa158 says:
    @Vinnie O

    You’re not keeping up with the weirdness.
    People will tell you with perfect seriousness that if there even were airliners, the airliners rendezvoused in mid-air with military transports that transferred the passengers and crew to the transports, and the transports were then flown into the ocean. The airliners continued on to their targets under remote control except for one that malfunctioned and crashed in Pennsylvania.
    The weird theories are necessary in order to sell books, get video clicks and keep the theorists occupied forever. It would be perfectly reasonable to postulate that the Deep State, MIC, ZOG, whoever, knew about the planned terrorist attack and let it happen, or even postulate that the conspirators ran a false flag operation in which they planned the attack and trained Islamist terrorists who didn’t know they were actually stooges for the CIA/Mossad, whoever.
    The problem with that sort of Occam’s razor theory is that you hit a dead end almost immediately. Unless someone in the conspiracy comes clean, or you can hack their records, there is almost nothing else to work with and it remains an unresolvable mystery.
    Remote control planes, nano-thermite, holograms, basement nukes, computer faked cell phone calls from doomed airline passengers etc. can be chewed over and keep many people occupied for the next fifty years.

    • Troll: Twodees Partain
    • Replies: @Gall
  6. @Vinnie O

    One of the soccer moms from my son’s soccer team

    Again, the “heard it from a friend who heard it from a friend” is always suspect.

    WATCHED the airliner crash in the parking lot and bounce against the Pentagon

    The parking lot was to the right of the flight path of the supposed airliner. As you can see in this photo there is NO damage to the parking lot from a “bouncing” plane.

    Close friends of one my friends in Maryland DIED on the airliner (father, mother, young child). Were ALL of the passengers and crew seized at National Airport and shot in the woods somewhere?

    Google Rebekah Roth “Methodical Illusion”. I think she has the most logical explanation of what happened to the passengers on the 9/11 planes.

    Pentagon photo:

  7. @Vinnie O

    There were video cameras on and around and adjacent to the Pentagon.

    Show us the videos or it never happened.

  8. Vetran says:

    The engine debris found at the Pentagon don’t match a Boeing engine size.

    • Replies: @dimples
  9. Gall says:
    @Alfa158

    “You’re not keeping up with the weirdness.”

    Oh right. Two planes allegedly crashing into two buildings and causing three of them to collapse isn’t “weird” yet that’s the Official Story.

    Nope nothing weird about a plane allegedly crashing into the Pentagon and leaving no debris or wreckage either I guess. Huh?

    What about magical Flight 93 that somehow buried itself and could only be secretly dug up by that Fricking Bunch of Incompetents.

    Lest we forget the magical indestructible fire proof passport and over a third of the alleged ‘hijackers” magically resurrecting themselves after being incinerated in the crash.

    True some of those conspiracy theories out there may be weird but not as weird as the Official Conspiracy Theory.

    • Replies: @Alfa158
  10. Mulegino1 says:

    As Conan Doyle wrote: “Whenever you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.”

    In the first place, the flight path described by the official narrative is impossible.. No pilot on earth has the skills capable of doing such impossible things as are ascribed to failed amateur pilot Hani Hanjour,

    Large commercial airliners such as a Boeing 757 cannot be flown so low at the alleged speed claimed by that narrative- the aircraft would have stalled and crashed well before it descended to near ground level.

    If the aircraft had indeed made contact with the light poles as alleged, it would have crashed at the edge of the lawn. The wings would have been sheared off.

    If the plane did indeed crash on the lawn and “bounce” into the Pentagon the component parts that reached the wall would have been demolished upon impact and would not have penetrated the wall or outer ring at all.

    That there is no “hole” in the building big enough to fit the wings and the tail is irrelevant to the discussion, since- even if the airliner made contact at the full speed alleged- the wings and the tail would have been sheared off and could not have penetrated the building. How are ductile and relatively fragile wings going to penetrate concrete reinforced to fend off a missile strike?

    That no wreckage of a 757 was recovered merely reinforces the obvious conclusion that no 757 crashed into the Pentagon.

    The official narrative is ludicrous in the extreme.

    • Agree: Iris, Gall
  11. bjondo says:
    @Vinnie O

    There are clearly unanswered questions about what all happened on 9/11

    And one would be,” what struck the Pentagon making a silo shaped hole through C ring.”

    Mindlessly declaring that thousands of Americans did NOT die on 9/11 is the lowest, most insulting piece of stupidity I can imagine.

    Who declared this other than Amurderka’s terrorist participants?

    5ds

  12. @Vinnie O

    Vinnie O, how do you explain away the fact that notwithstanding that the Pentagon is probably the most secure building in the world with some 86 closed circuit television cameras, the FBI has not released any of the recordings but for a brief 5 second or so flash of light? And that the FBI confiscated and has never released the tapes of video cameras of area businesses that might have recorded some relevant activity? And that a novice pilot, approaching from the west, circled around the Pentagon to enter a narrow opening on the east side where it entered without enlarging the too narrow opening, where, coincidentally, Navy auditors were investigating billions of dollars of unaccounted for Pentagon funds?

    • Replies: @Gall
  13. Zidar says:

    On this Pentagon photo, (post by Johnny Walker Read ) I can see that
    1) on the left side, the building is vertically cut, flat surface, (I added two red lines there) like cutting butter, no debris on that side
    2) right side looks not so flat, the debris is actually positioned against the right side of the cut
    3) no damage to parking lots and vehicles around

    If the impact was so powerful, to make aircraft evaporate and cut the hole in the wall, big and neat on one side, how come nothing else is destroyed?

    We must also assume that there were no cars on nearby highway, so nobody actually have seen or heard the airplane. At low altitudes, like 6 story building low, the rumbling and hiss are very loud.

    Yeah, there is a hole in the wall, but no Boeing aircraft could have done it. The question remains – what hit the wall and made the hole. Weird, indeed

    🙂

    How to add an image to the message?

  14. Iris says:
    @Vinnie O

    It does a GREAT disservice [sic] to REAL instances of coverups by The People in Charge of Things (e.g., TWA Flight 800) to talk nonsense about the UNQUESTIONABLE events on 9/11.

    What does a great SERVICE to the PTB’s is the refusal by some alleged Truthers to discuss scientific and undeniable facts such as:

    – the unquestionable controlled demolition of WTC7 without any detonation “bang” or fireballs characteristic of aerial explosions.
    – the release of the heat-equivalent of a 900 MVA nuclear reactor by the footprints of the 3 Towers.

    The sad, criminal 9/11 tall tale is so discredited that the PTB’s are now encouraging their OWN conspiracy theories as damage control.

    Any genuine question getting really close to the truth can now being labelled as “divisive” of the 9/11 Truth movement.

    The gatekeeper conspiracy theorists’ ultimate mission is to conceal that the real, nuclear modus operandi of the Holocaust of 3000 Americans points at the culprits being from a Levantine country other than Saudi Arabia.

    • Agree: Gall
  15. Gall says:
    @Jerrydavidson

    Actually it was trillions of dollars. 2.2 Trillion to be exact that according to news reports mysteriously vanished into thin just the day before a big jet airliner “flown” by a pilot so incompetent that he couldn’t safely fly a kite according to his instructors “just happened” to avoid the target rich east side of Pentagon in order to do an incredible and very difficult 270 degree spiral into a bunch of bean counters and accountants who “just happened” to be trying to find the lost trillion.

    • Agree: Iris
    • Replies: @Iris
  16. Iris says:
    @Gall

    “just happened” to avoid the target rich east side of Pentagon in order to do an incredible and very difficult 270 degree spiral into a bunch of bean counters and accountants

    In addition to the supernatural powers of the “plane”, which, we are told, managed to fly by mustering a dynamic pressure impossible to create at such low altitude and high air density, don’t forget to mention that the ace pilot terrorist was also a nature-lover, who took care to spare the trees that were in his way.

    The plane must have done a somersault, in addition to the 270 degree spiral.

    • Replies: @Gall
  17. dimples says:
    @Vetran

    I think you’re looking at two different bits of the engine.

    • Replies: @Vetran
  18. Gall says:
    @Iris

    Sorry my bad I forgot to mention that 🙂

  19. Polymath says:

    I don’t have explanations for the anomalies. But I do have questions I’d like to hear answered:
    (1) There is no disputing that passengers and crew scheduled to be on the 4 flights in question are no longer with us. Wouldn’t a conspiracy involving taking control of those flights and making them and the passengers and crew disappear ELSEWHERE be much harder to keep secret than simply crashing the planes into buildings? Given that you are taking control of the flights in either scenario, what’s the advantage of doing it the complicated way?
    (2) If the 19 men accused of being the hijackers are just patsies or fakes and the hijackings were orchestrated by some shadowy government entity, wouldn’t that already explain the extreme covering up of all relevant data without also requiring the planes to have been made to vanish elsewhere in a way that nobody noticed or blabbed about?

    • Replies: @Iris
  20. Alfa158 says:
    @Gall

    There are photos of aircraft wreckage. Boeing 747 Roll-Royce RB211 engine compressor stage disk and other parts;
    http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/conspiracy/q0265.shtml
    But again, that doesn’t support the alternative weird hypotheses so adherents ignore the evidence and come back with something else ludicrous like, “oh yeah, well if this really happened how come the government won’t publish photos of the mangled bodies of the victims, huh?”

    But as I said it keeps them occupied and off the streets. Additionally if the terrorists really were simply working for the government in a false flag attack, these theories are exactly what the perpetrators would want people talking about. It discredits the investigators and misdirects them away from the truth. If I was the Mr. Big at the CIA/Mossad/whatever who was behind the attacks I would be deliberately planting these alternate theories so that skeptics would be spending their time and energy trying to prove holographic airplanes, basement nukes, no one died in the attack, etc. instead of things like tracking down who recruited, planted and financed the 19 hijackers.

    • Troll: Iris
    • Replies: @augusto
    , @Gall
    , @Iris
    , @Iris
  21. @Vinnie O

    “One of the soccer moms from my son’s soccer team WATCHED the airliner crash in the parking lot and bounce against the Pentagon. Close friends of one my friends in Maryland DIED on the airliner (father, mother, young child). ”

    Yeah, and my sister’s cat’s grandmother saw the airliner hit the Pentagon too. Close friends of one of my neighbor’s friends’ third cousins’ former girlfriend’s estranged brother’s boss said something or other about hearing that somebody else died on a plane sometime around then as well.

    You drag that same shit into every thread on this subject, Vinny. That’s the lowest piece of stupidity in this particular thread. Repeating it isn’t going to make it seem less ridiculous.

  22. Anon[388] • Disclaimer says:

    My mom had a good friend Edna who lived in an apartment facing the Pentagon (1201 Eads Arlington, VA 22202) and saw the plane fly into the Pentagon. Edna called my mom hysterically crying on the morning of 9/11/01 to tell her that she had witnessed a plane fly into the Pentagon. My mom then told me and this prior to it being broadcast on TV. About a minute afterwards there was breaking news about it but at the time they first thought the Capitol has been hit because the direction of the smoke. I told my mom Edna must’ve been wrong because the news is saying the Capitol was hit. My mom reiterated that Edna said the Pentagon and that her apartment faces it.

    • Replies: @restless94110
  23. Iris says:
    @Polymath

    Given that you are taking control of the flights in either scenario, what’s the advantage of doing it the complicated way?

    The difficulty is the opposite way around: it was far much easier killing the plane passengers elsewhere in a secrete location than in the alleged WTC “plane attacks”.

    Hitting the Twin Towers with a heavy jet, at the purported 510 knots speed, with only 25 feet margin each side of the plane’s wing span, is an almost impossible mission for even the most expert pilot.

    Very experienced pilots have made the experience on flight simulator and tried to duplicate the 9/11 Twin Towers attacks with a smaller, more manoeuvrable 737. The only way they could hit the towers was to slow down to landing speed.

    From PilotsFor11/11Truth:

  24. dimples says:

    One of the complaints made by McKee is that if you don’t believe the theory/story that no plane hit the Pentagon, then you are defacto endorsing the official story that Hani Hanjour piloted the plane into the building, a highly unlikely and probably completely impossible feat of extreme pilot skill.

    I believe this is because the 911 Truth intellectual class believes as a whole that the original Arab hijackers are on the planes which are then steered into the buildings via a remote control capability originally fitted to the aircraft.

    In reality there are several theories, each of which have their own issues which is why probably there is still no really satisfactory agreement on ‘how they did it’.

    Probably some theories are:

    1. As above, original Arab hijackers are on the plane but not in control, control is asserted via remote control devices on the original passenger planes which are flown into the buildings.

    2. A plane swap occurs. The original hijackers do not get on the planes. Instead special forces teams resembling Arab hijackers do the hijacks, allow the passenger phone calls, fly the plane to a military airbase, kill the passengers, mince them up, salt fragments at crash sites for DNA discovery.

    3. Total video hoax theory. Crashes actually do not occur, all video is doctored, all media feeds are doctored. DNA discovery similar to (2), or DNA discovery faked by establishment agencies.

    Myself I prefer Option (2). 911 is a covert military operation that must succeed or else the plotters be unmasked and face the executioner. They need total control over all aspects of the operation down to the last nut and bolt. Only Option (2) provides this. In Option (1) for example, the operation requires that the original Arab hijackers succeed in the cabin takeovers which the plotters could not guarantee. Also they could not stop the hijackers from discussing the fact that the plane was flying itself by remote control over the radio. They also cannot react to operational circumstances, such as the fact the Flight 93 was late and had to be redirected. Option (2) is very complex however and would require control over the radar system to hide the incoming remote controlled substitute planes and the outgoing passenger planes.

    Option (3), well if you want to go down the rabbit hole be my guest. But any alternate theory of 911 is a rabbit hole to a greater or lesser extent.

    • Replies: @Iris
    , @Justvisiting
    , @baku
    , @dimples
  25. Vetran says:
    @dimples

    More precisely?
    The bit found at the Pentagon doesn’t seem to belong to a Boeing engine, whether it is a Rolls Royce or General Electric, which are similar in size.
    Obviously that bit doesn’t belong to the fan or the turbine section as the disks are too big, neither to the combustion and the compression section as the central shaft is too large.
    So if you have a clue, please let me know.

    • Replies: @dimples
  26. dimples says:
    @Vetran

    As you say its obviously not the fan as this would disintegrate on impact. Its clearly a turbine or compressor disk. I’ll enquire as to what is said on the Internet about this object and get back to you.

    I assume that if this object is clearly not from a 757 engine then a big deal would have been made of it. Experts on the Pentagon-no-plane theory like McKee would be all over it. I’ll check out his website!

  27. dimples says:

    If google “Pentagon & Boeing 757 engine investigation” there is a discussion of the engine parts and photos on http://www.aerospaceweb.org. This seems fairly thorough and concludes that the part is a compressor rotor from the 757 RB-211 engine. This seems good enough for me, but YMMV.

  28. Iris says:
    @dimples

    3. Total video hoax theory. Crashes actually do not occur, all video is doctored, all media feeds are doctored.

    The video hoax theory is a “rabbit hole” only in the eyes of those who have not yet understood how depraved and embedded the MSM are.

    The explosions, collapse of the Twin Towers and subsequent Holocaust of 3000 Americans are real; the “plane attacks” were fabricated by CGI.

    Below is an “amateur” photo of the “plane crash” into WTC2, allegedly “found” a few years after the tragedy.

    The “plane” dives very nicely into the tower as if it was made of water; there is no sign of any explosion or fire, despite the “plane’s” fuel reservoir system is already impacted.

    Anybody who still believes that planes hit the Twin Towers is either not interested in 9/11, has cognitive issues, or is simply too arrogant and self-deluded to recognise that they have been fooled for years by depraved MSM.

    • Replies: @Mulegino1
  29. @dimples

    I agree #2 is a variation of what probably happened, but I tend to think the passengers were told it was a drill and made the phone calls from the ground with scripts–before they were killed.

    The calls could have been taped (not live) so that any unacceptable calls could simply not be transmitted (or truncated as needed).

    However, if I were planning such an event I would have preferred no passengers at all and remote control empty planes–if there was a way to make that work.

    No planes and fake video would have been even better–again if there was a way to make it work.

    • Replies: @Iris
  30. augusto says:
    @Alfa158

    What keeps the american and world people occupied, mr Alpha, and tons of ink wasted is a sequence like this:

    1)-19 arab highjackers took four planes in one morning and fooled for practically TWO hours all of the most costly, numerous and secure defense system in the world – and then crashed against the towers…
    2) the whole thing was such a tremendous unseen before S.u.r.p.r.i.s.e to everybody. Which didnot prevent the FBi and similar junkies to sstate thru TV just hours later, the names – the places visited in the US, the age and the color of their underwears of varios of the highjackers…
    3) 7 hours later the BLDG 7 hundred meters away colapsed to the ground in 7-8 seconds a world record for a 47 story massive building – which incidentally was a home for FBI, cia and a few other rotten intelligence bastards.
    4) one week earlier the ZIM Israel shipping Line abaondoned their large offices in the WTC and went to a unknown distant new domicile
    5) the president of the United states, if I were him, i would stick to the phone in desperation and start shouting orders to everybody and would DEMAND immediately a few minutes in Live TV
    because it was my first duty to calm down and prepare the american people for any resistance if required.
    6) a Rule from Congress should have been voted right away vowing that the laws of physics should be at once be reinstated – ater being so many times abrogated in that day

    • Agree: Gall
  31. baku says:
    @dimples

    Option 3 is not so far fetched as it would at first seem. A video addressing this topic is well worth a watch. ‘September Clues’…https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIfMw7mEDNk

  32. Iris says:
    @Justvisiting

    No planes and fake video would have been even better–again if there was a way to make it work.

    This was the simplest and easiest way to carry out the 9/11 WTC false flag, and this indeed how it was executed.

    The only thing it took to make this plan work was to control the media and make them broadcast the doctored videos. These are the same media who, otherwise, lie about everything else anyway.

    There is available evidence proving that the news video have been doctored: a footage of WTC2, broadcast in the morning of the attack, showed the explosion and no plane, while the exactly same footage, broadcast in the afternoon, showed an explosion and a plane.

    The only evidence of a plane attack are the videos.
    One having proven to have been faked, there is no reason to believe that the remaining weren’t, and that any plane actually hit the Twin Towers.

    • Agree: Gall
  33. @Anon

    That’s real interesting, since a Google Map search of the address shows that the part of the Pentagon that was hit was not in the sight line of your mom’s friend’s building.

    It looks like, depending on the location in the building of your mom’s friend’s 2nd cousin’s apartment, she might have been able to see the approach. But maybe not.

  34. Gall says:
    @Alfa158

    So they found a turbo fan of the type used on 757 or so they say but the fact is:

    “None of the photographed parts have been positively identified as belonging to “Flight 77″ or tail #N644AA via the matching of serial numbers, and there has been no attempt to reconstruct the plane as is usually the protocol during aircraft crash investigations.”

    https://www.citizeninvestigationteam.com/faq/plane-debris-photos

    By the way much of the wreckage and debris magically appeared sometime after the Pentagon was hit.

    (see ibid)

    Also there is no evidence (such as security camera videos, flight manifests and ticket stubs, etc.) that any of the 19 hijackers the FBI claim boarded the planes in question.

    If you have any conclusive proof to counter the above such as the above mentioned please present that to all of us here.

    You are free to accept the Government’s Official Conspiracy Theory if you wish but I’d rather know the actual truth as opposed to a ridiculous fairy tale about super villain “hijackers” flying magical planes that can magically penetrate hardened steel and reinforced structures with the greatest of ease containing highly destructive kiloton strength jet fuel.

    As far as I’m concerned the 9/11 Commission report is not only a cover up but a total fabrication.

    • Agree: Twodees Partain, Iris
  35. remo says:

    Kevin. The length of pole Lloyd English describes has always been in the 40foot ‘bracket.’ Many photos exist of it laid beside the vehicle.
    Biggest problem the OCT theorists have is not one piece of evidence of 77 has ever been physically presented and verified to support it. State must have all parts found..none ever produced and Provenance proven in legal contest. There is no corporeal evidence of 77, So these are theoretical digits built upon photographic digits built upon narrative control digits.

    This may buy into the ‘Withholding’ ‘October surprise’ argument-which itself could be argued as controlled opp; but equally and by virtue of that empirical absence over the past 18yrs also argues CIT smashed the OCT paradigm created by deepstate in that controlled evidence field: wide open.
    Opponents call them ‘disinfo’.
    In the world I live post 911 – Post JFK -Post Nuremburg..I would call them “Info.”
    Besides. Even if this IS shadow Govt. ‘withholding evidence that it is 77, so as to ridicule the ‘Truth Movement at a critical moment’ ..lets push those fuckers to DO it. Produce it. Produce the evidence. Habeas Corpus.
    I don’t mind being wrong.

  36. Mulegino1 says:
    @Iris

    Anybody who still believes that planes hit the Twin Towers is either not interested in 9/11, has cognitive issues, or is simply too arrogant and self-deluded to recognise that they have been fooled for years by depraved MSM.

    Exactly. How in the world can anyone capable of serious reflection and able to grasp such a rudimentary part of physics such as the Third Law of Motion believe that large commercial airliners were going to glide effortlessly into the Towers as if the latter were composed solely of air and therefore offered no resistance?

    Dumberican prole infotainment consumers do not even have the excuse that Winston Smith had when he was writing his Newspeak slogans on the chalk tablet, since he had been tortured mercilessly.
    Most of them could care less about the truth as they are no doubt totally absorbed by Fantasy Football or even more low brow pursuits.

    • Agree: Iris, Gall
    • Replies: @dimples
  37. Iris says:
    @Alfa158

    There are photos of aircraft wreckage. Boeing 747 Roll-Royce RB211 engine compressor stage disk and other parts;

    It just dawned on me that you might be a facetious individual, trying to bring some comical sense to an otherwise unavoidably macabre discussion. Mentioning the 9/11 “aircraft wreckage” definitely requires a great sense of humour.

    Where is the “airplane” debris into the gashes, the cuts made in the Twin Towers at the alleged place of impact? These were filmed/shot from so close that we could distinguish the poor people hanging there and trapped to death. How come there is not any debris caught into the structure, not even a piece of shattered soft aluminium?

    A Boeing 767 has 3,1 millions parts. Not a single part, not even one (01), from any of the 4 planes, has so far been publicly identified with a serial number by the official investigation. How likely is that?

    The “plane engine” that was found in Murray Street , allegedly from the United Airline 175 flight that crashed into the South Tower, was identified as being of the CFM56 or CFM6 type, a model made by General Electric only.

    As it happens, United Airlines used exclusively Pratt & Whitney engines, and not General Electric’s.

    So whoever dumped the engine off a truck or a car, to make it look it came off the WTC2 “terrorist plane”, was either very lazy, or maybe very facetious like yourself and the Dancing Israelis.

    • Replies: @dimples
  38. Iris says:
    @Alfa158

    But again, that doesn’t support the alternative weird hypotheses so adherents ignore the evidence and come back with something else ludicrous

    The only ludicrous thing is to believe that, by some unidentified Houdini-style trick, the laws of Physics were suspended on 9/11.

    – On the original video below, at 1.04, the camera is filming the South Tower that has just collapsed, with the North Tower still standing in the background.

    The height of the rubble is, literally, inexistent. Which method of controlled demolition, do you think, is able to totally eliminate any remaining pile of rubble? There is only one, and it is one that creates an underground cavity so large that in engulfs the rubble.

    – On the same video, at 1.53, the North Tower collapses, obviously by some means of fast controlled demolition, making a sound similar to “a jet flying over” as per the witness.

    In the real world, aerial explosions all, without exception, produce a blast, i.e. a supersonic pressure shockwave accompanied with a distinctive and resounding “bang”, due to their supersonic nature. Not the steady, continuous rumbling of a jet.

    So where is the “bang, in the controlled demolition of WTC2? Why can’t we hear it in the video?
    The only possible explanation is that the detonation occurred underground and was therefore attenuated by the bedrock and soil surrounding it. The only logical explanation is that WTC1 was taken down by an underground nuclear explosion.

    instead of things like tracking down who recruited, planted and financed the 19 hijackers.

    Having understood that the WTC was taken down by nuclear demolition, it becomes easy to understood who masterminded and directed it.

    People who have no roots in America, no love for America, no fear for their name to be irretrievably sullied; people who have access to nuclear explosives. A Levantine pariah country comes to mind.

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  39. dimples says:
    @Mulegino1

    Rudimentary physics at:
    https://www.911tap.org/557-news-releases/770-plane-impact-and-tower-sway-at-the-wtc-on-9-11

    According to this article, photos serendipitously taken of the first tower impact from a long distance show the tower reacting to the impact of the plane. Great photos by the way, but if you want to believe they are fakes, be my guest.

    Measurements show plane decelerating as it hits the 2nd tower:
    https://www.911tap.org/557-news-releases/470-observed-deceleration-of-ua-175-during-the-impact-at-the-south-tower

    Aircraft impact damage to columns of 2nd tower:
    https://www.911tap.org/557-news-releases/801-aircraft-impact-damage-to-the-wtc-perimeter-columns

    These articles are all written by Wayne Coste, Mr Kee’s bete noir. Obviously, as a plane hit theorist I feel these articles are worth reading, certainly an improvement on gut-feeling ‘wow look the plane disappeared into the building, it can’t be real’ type stuff.

    • Replies: @Iris
  40. dimples says:
    @Iris

    I’d point out that the no-plane theory is virtually as complex, or more complex, than the substitute plane theory.

    The plotters still need to:
    1. Get the original planes hijacked by special forces teams.
    2. Allow the passengers to make phone calls
    3. Divert the planes to a military airport, kill the passengers, turn them into
    mince and salt the various crash sites for DNA discovery.
    4. The radar systems still need to be under the control of the plotters in order to remove the original planes’ tracks after the hijacks and substitute fake tracks leading up to the crashes.

    Of course perhaps the planes never took off, the phone calls are fake, all the radar tracks are fake, the DNA evidence was fabricated, the planes are still flying on commercial routes and the passengers are still alive etc etc. However this all adds more and more people and complexity into the conspiracy.

    I still haven’t got the point of the no-planes theory and why people become so obsessed over the issue. The fact is there was a conspiracy, they either did with no-planes or planes, who cares? I do mainly because that’s what the evidence says and I don’t want to co-habit with the equivalent of flat earth theorists. The plotters wanted to create a real event with real witnesses seeing real events to make the maximum impact. You can’t do that with planting a bomb in a building and pretending that a plane hit it.

    I don’t know if the engines have been proven to be the same as to what they are supposed to be or not, however if the engine is different this works with either the plane substitution theory or the no-planes theory. Either way the PTB are not going to show you the engine numbers. I would assume that, in this multi-million or multi-billion dollar operation, the plotters would have enough brains to use the correct engines in either the substitute planes or the fake photos.

    • Replies: @Iris
    , @dimples
  41. Muggles says:

    Occam’s Razor is never used by 9/11 “truthers.”

    Zero evidence has been shown that any alternative means of destruction could have caused all of the damage either in NYC or the Pentagon. Also unmentioned is why, if all of those were “made up” or somehow magically faked, the plane crashed in PA by the passenger revolt happened at the same time. How did the unmentioned “real villains” manage to get actual hijacker that aircraft at the same time? Why would they do that? Have one actual aircraft hijacked and the others all be faked?

    This incident is normally black holed by conspiracy proponents.

    And they refuse to believe evidence or insist it was somehow either faked or added to the scene afterwards.

    They are basically “flat earthers” of our times. We are supposed to believe in fairy tales involving never detailed “conspirators” who magically climbed inside large buildings and blew them up exactly when aircraft independently flying hit them. Wow! Better than Hollywood!

    This isn’t the JFK assassination. And all of the people killed by al Qaeda in bombings, etc. before and after were what, just part of the cover story? Or were these all faked as well?

  42. Iris says:
    @dimples

    According to this article, photos serendipitously taken of the first tower impact from a long distance show the tower reacting to the impact of the plane.

    The law of conservation of momentum would have required, upon impact, the pieces of softer, shattered plane to be projected in the opposite direction the plane came.

    But in your explanation, not only an aluminium plane penetrates a much harder steel structure, but the total momentum is also instantaneously and miraculously increased out of nowhere: not only the plane continues uninterrupted within its initial direction, but it even manages to drag to Tower with it !!!

    This is yet another great “miracle” the discipline of Physics had never heard of before 9/11.

    Measurements show plane decelerating as it hits the 2nd tower

    Thank God, it is a great relief to learn that the CGI “plane” decelerated on impacting WTC2; it shows that our Zionist Gauleiters do no take us Goyim for utter and complete retards (yet).

    In the real life, however, a passenger jet flying at such low altitude and high air density, at the 510 knots speed the United Airlines 175 was supposedly at, would have been broken by in-flight structural failure long before even reaching the South Tower.

    http://pilotsfor911truth.org/wtc_speed

    Aircraft impact damage to columns of 2nd tower:

    This article is a shining example of logics and rationality: let’s look at the giraffe’s tail with a microscope to find out who cut her head, shall we?

    So not only the soft aluminium “plane” crushing into the steel tower managed to perforate it and travel throughout like a blade into water, but furthermore, it could do so without a single piece of shredded aluminium getting caught by the gashes? Material science needs to be re-written from scratch, no discussion.

    To summarise, the “debunking” links you posted are a good example of how stupid liars react: when caught red-handed, they make up an even more implausible and grotesque lies to get by.

    • Replies: @dimples
  43. @Iris

    “A Levantine pariah country comes to mind.”

    AKA, “that shitty little country”.

    • Replies: @Iris
  44. Iris says:
    @dimples

    I still haven’t got the point of the no-planes theory and why people become so obsessed over the issue

    Because the “plane theory” and wider 9/11 official narrative is beyond any doubt proved impossible by the Laws of Physics. Period.

    Nobody of us, members of the public, knows what exactly happened, as were are not part of the circle of 9/11 perpetrators.

    Many of us know what did NOT happen, because many of us have studied Physics and Engineering.

    • Agree: Mulegino1
  45. Iris says:
    @Twodees Partain

    Hi Twoodees;

    As cynical and megalomaniac gentile members of the US Deep State can be, I can’t see people whose families have been American for centuries, and whose descendants will be part of the American nation for decades to come, organising a crime against their own people using nuclear bombs.

    Many people now know that 9/11 was a nuclear Holocaust; symbolically, it is the ultimate crime against humanity and as such forges the historic personality of the nation victim of it.

    Whoever knowingly masterminded the 9/11 crime did not care about any collective American identity, about their name, about their descendants’ life among the American nation. They were ready to sacrifice the symbolic national identity, as well as the future, because they actually had nothing to sacrifice: they were foreign to America.

    Israel did 9/11.

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  46. dimples says:
    @dimples

    The Youtube video “911 Flight 11 plane engine identified -2016” is about the fact that one of the plane engines in the museum has been mislabelled. This has nothing to do with whether or not there was no plane or a substitute plane. However the link under the video

    https://911conspiracy.wordpress.com/2016/09/03/911-plane-engine-misidentified-fbintsb-failed/

    is very good. The author of the 911conspiracy TV weblog has produced some excellent PDF documents detailing the plane debris around the crash sites.

    • LOL: Iris
  47. @Iris

    No doubt in my mind. The main beneficiary is the likeliest suspect.

    • Agree: Iris
  48. dimples says:
    @dimples

    Another theory I didn’t mention is a sort of hybrid between options 1 & 2:

    Option 5:
    Original planes have remote control capability
    Hijacks are carried out by special forces teams
    Passengers are allowed to make phone calls
    Close to target hijackers kill passengers with gas grenades and bail out
    Planes continue on under remote control to crash sites

    This offers the possibility of complete control over the operation but not requiring control over radars and DNA discovery etc.

  49. dimples says:
    @Iris

    1. “The law of conservation of momentum would have required, upon impact, the pieces of softer, shattered plane to be projected in the opposite direction the plane came.”

    Then why didn’t the CGI artists put this in the fake photos, videos etc. to make it accord with the laws of physics and plant a lot of plane debris accordingly. You can’t have it both ways.

    2. “In the real life, however, a passenger jet flying at such low altitude and high air density, at the 510 knots speed the United Airlines 175 was supposedly at, would have been broken by in-flight structural failure long before even reaching the South Tower.”

    I agree. The plane was going way over its nominal speed limit at which it is supposed to fall apart. I assume that this was done as modelling had shown that to penetrate the building at that floor height this extreme speed was necessary. (The columns thin down as you go up the building, so Flight 175 must hit faster than flight 11) Don’t ask me how this worked. I assume they tested the aircraft type sufficiently to see what the actual speed limit was, as opposed to the nominal value in the manual. The substitute plane may have been worked on to stiffen it up etc etc I don’t know. Its a mystery but since the plane didn’t fall apart whatever they did obviously worked.

    If it was a CGI plane then it would not be necessary to use this extreme velocity since the damage is being supposedly caused by a bomb, so you can’t have it both ways again. Why would the CGI artists draw attention to themselves by using an unrealistic speed?

  50. Iris says:

    Then why didn’t the CGI artists put this in the fake photos, videos etc. to make it accord with the laws of physics and plant a lot of plane debris accordingly.

    Your comical sense is inexhaustible; thanks for the laugh.

    How do you think that, with the basic CGI techniques available in 2001, the Israeli con artists would have been able to simulate something as complex as an airliner made of 3.1 million parts being shredded into pieces?

    They would have had to superpose the CGI “planes” to the real explosions at the top of the Twin Towers, remember? These explosions that were genuine, unpredictable in shape, colour and magnitude, and filmed by uncontrolled members of the public.

    And they would have had to create the simulation within a very short time window, in time for the afternoon news. It was an impossible task.

    Even more impossible would it have been to plant credible traces of a plane crash at the WTC: a large aircraft shattered in thousands of pieces, hundreds of bodies, of seats, of baggage, etc… cannot be faked.

    This is precisely why the 9/11 perpetrators were obliged to come to terms with promoting the ludicrous, grotesque, unbelievable story of fragile aluminium planes diving and disappearing into solid structural steel as a sword into the water:

    – Using real planes, hijacked with remote control , would have exposed the plot as the planes flying so low would have allowed the passengers to raise the alarm using their cell phones.

    – Using drones disguised as passenger aircrafts was equally dangerous, as alien parts with “wrong” serial numbers would have fallen to the ground and ended up in the hands of the public.

    • Replies: @dimples
  51. dimples says:
    @Iris

    Your logic is impeccable. I never thought it would come to this, but I’m forced to believe in the no-plane theory. Nothing else comes close.

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