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Charles Upton: Is Religion Under Attack?
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First hour: Charles Upton, renowned Beat poet turned Sufi Muslim interfaith activist, writes in his new essay “Rebuilding Muhammad’s Interfaith Alliance Against the Global Attack on Religion“: “We are all aware of the growing number of attacks on churches, mosques and synagogues around the world, including North America. Whatever attacks are not carried out by (supposedly) lone individuals are usually attributed to, or claimed by, specific known groups: Islamicist terrorists, White Supremacists, etc. But a further question must be asked: are a percentage of these attacks actually false flags, carried out by entities with an agenda of creating conflict between the religions in order to weaken them, destroy the potential solidarity between them, and limit their social influence?”

Charles Upton works with Dr. John Andrew Morrow to publicize the Covenants of the Prophet Muhammad, which order all Muslims to protect Christians, Jews, and other religious communities “until the end of time.” The Covenants Initiative, which has already had a huge impact on the global Muslim community (including on Pakistan’s Supreme Court and Prime Minister Imran Khan) is currently raising funds for a major conferenc e.

(Republished from Truth Jihad by permission of author or representative)
 
• Category: Ideology • Tags: Islam, Religion 
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  1. I want freedom FROM religion.

    Throne and alter were twins–two vultures from the same egg.
    To attack the king was treason; to dispute the priest, blasphemy.
    The sword and cross were allies.
    Together they attacked the rights of men; they defended each other.
    The king owned the bodies of men, the priests the souls.
    One lived on taxes collected by force, the other on alms collected by fear.
    Both robbers, both beggars.
    The king made laws, the priest made creeds.
    With bowed backs the people carried the burdens of one, with open-mouthed wonder received the dogmas of the other.
    The king said rags and hovels for you, robes and palaces for me.
    The priest said God made you ignorant and immoral; He made me holy and wise; you are the sheep, I am the shepherd; your fleeces belong to me.
    You must not reason, you must not contradict, you must believe.
    Robert G. Ingersoll

    • Replies: @Kratoklastes
  2. Anonymous[196] • Disclaimer says:

    Only certain forms of religion deemed incompatible with globalism. Protestants have it particularly hard because they tend to be right wing and resistant to state power, the Protestant unionists in Northern Ireland are far more hated by the media than the Irish Catholics are. Muslims are hated by much of the mainstream media and many on the right because they stand in the way of Greater Israel for the most part.

    Catholicism generally has more support in the mainstream media and from the left, largely because the Pope is a globalist, NWO propagandist and Catholics tend to be left wing and very accepting of state authority.

    • Replies: @Kolya Krassotkin
  3. @Anonymous

    Orthodox Catholics are now under attack from Pope Francis.

    So if you’re a serial adulterer, drug abuser or abortionist, you’re good. But failing to recycle, drive cars not sufficiently fuel-efficient and using plastic straws are now mortal sins, which will land you in hell for eternity.

  4. polistra says:

    EXCELLENT interview. Clear and rational and informative from start to finish, no mystical metaphysics.

  5. G. Poulin says:

    What do you suppose the chances are that many Muslims will pay the slightest attention to these two white guys?

    • Replies: @godfree
    , @Kevin Barrett
  6. @RoatanBill

    Ingersoll’s fucking magnificent. Between Ingersoll and Mencken, religion ought to already be mouldering in its casket; sadly, no.

    The narrator for the audiobook I have of The Lectures of Col R. G. Ingersoll is a fellow called Ted Delorme: he reads them with a level of engagement that makes me forget that he’s not actually the author.

    One of my favourite Ingersoll ‘bits’:

    “Under the Mosaic dispensation there was no remission of sins without the shedding of blood. If a man committed a murder he brought a pair of doves or a sheep to the priest, and the priest laid his hands on the animal, and the sins of the man were transferred to the animal. You see how that could be done easy enough. Then they killed the animal, and sprinkled its blood on the altar. That let the man off. And why did God demand the sacrifice of a sheep? I will tell you; because priests love mutton.”

    Absolutely nailed it.

    • Replies: @Anon
  7. godfree says:
    @G. Poulin

    100% Your question has me wondering if you have ever known or been friends with a Muslim or a Sufi. Have you? Since I live in a mostly Islamic country—I would say the chances are 100%—with that said Christianity and Islam both were infiltrated long ago—especially with the creation of the New Testament using Saul of Tarsus’ letters, which never quote the Messiah—making it a controlled opposition, way off from the Indivisible Obviousness of the original Nazorean Gospel.

  8. PPB says:

    The vehemence of anti-religious sentiment in some people still intrigues me. I can perfectly well sympathize with those who criticize the distortions, abuses, superstitions, belligerent tribalism and dumbed-down dogma that have attached themselves to certain expressions of religion, and can also understand why some people are simply not interested either in religion or in any form of spirituality in its broader sense— how is any individual supposed to relate to what isn’t part of their own experience, and why should anyone adopt a particular set of beliefs or practices merely because they’re prevalent in their surrounding cultural environment? Nonetheless, those who engage in wholesale denunciations of religion strike me as protesting a bit too much, as though they feel the need to wall off a dimension of their own being which they are not yet ready to embrace.

    While not denying the evils that have asserted themselves through the medium of religion, I still see see the presence and influence of religion within human society as a significant net plus, especially given the barrenness of the alternative. Moreover, a restoration of all major religions (not merely Islam) to the spirit of their original founding inspiration and its expression through one or more human exemplars would only enhance that “net plus”. Bravo to Mr. Upton’s effort.

    • Agree: Talha
  9. @G. Poulin

    Muslims are widely and fairly equally distributed among most of the biggest ethnic groups on earth, including Malaysians/Indonesians, South Asians, East Asians, Central Asians and Turkic peoples, Indian Subcontinent peoples, Persians, Russians, Eastern Europeans, North Africans, East Africans, West Africans, and increasingly people of northwestern European descent like Charles and me. “White guys” (including white people from native white Muslim backgrounds like Eddie Redzovic of The Deen Show https://www.veteranstoday.com/2019/09/10/when-will-muslims-demand-9-11-truth/ ) far from being ignored by other Muslims get an unusually warm welcome wherever we go. Convert to Islam and see for yourself!

    • Replies: @Talha
  10. Talha says:
    @Kevin Barrett

    far from being ignored by other Muslims get an unusually warm welcome wherever we go.

    I agree here. I don’t know if you’ve had a chance to hear about this new project by Br. Peter Sanders who was allowed to photograph people in the Muslim world that usuallly avoid photographs:

    I am avidly awaiting his compendium of photographs once it comes out. I believe the work will be a bit on the expensive side, but well worth it. One place you can pre-order is here:
    https://www.meccabooks.com/1678-meetings-with-mountains-9780955710612.html

    Wa salaam.

  11. Anonymous[299] • Disclaimer says:

    > attacks on churches, mosques and synagogues

    Abrahamism is under attack by other Abrahamists, an internecine squabble over the mythological middle-eastern nomadic herdsman in the Five Books of Moses.

    • Replies: @Talha
  12. Talha says:
    @Anonymous

    The earliest known complete Qur’an is the variant recitations that are still in use today. The Qur’an is primarily an oral transmission, not a written one – the written on is just a crutch for the primary method.

    If you don’t accept the validity of oral transmission, not our problem.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  13. Anonymous[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    Not so much; the Koran derives from a Syriac Christian lectionary.

    The word Koran itself is derived from ‘qeryana’, a Syriac term from the Christian liturgy that means ‘lectionary’ a book of [Christian] liturgical readings. The book being a Syro-Aramaic lectionary, with hymns and Biblical extracts, created for use in Christian services. This lectionary was translated into Arabic as a missionary effort. It was not meant to start a new religion, but to spread an older one. […] The interpretative mistakes that were made by the first commentators suggests that there must have been a gap in the oral transmission of the Koran.

    Christoph Luxenberg (2007) The Syro-Aramaic Reading of the Koran: A Contribution to the Decoding of the Language of the Koran

    No doubt, some things were Lost in Translation. (2003) 🙂

    • Replies: @Talha
  14. Talha says:
    @Anonymous

    Uh hunh – tell me who exactly takes that work seriously?

    The houris being “grapes” or “raisins” in the Qur’an is one of the most ludicrous assertions anyone has made.

    But again, I’m totally fine with you believing this guy has the goods on oral transmission. To be honest, I’ve never, ever seen a good critical study or review regarding the soundness of oral transmission from Western scholarship. They are simply dismissive of it, which is fine – it would make a difference if we actually pinned our tradition on being validated by non-Muslims.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  15. Anonymous[210] • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    Who takes it seriously? His work has got the attention of The New York Times, The Guardian, Newsweek, etc., and has attracted the attention, conferences, and reviews by many scholars and journals. And Muslims themselves have taken it quite seriously.

    Luxenberg himself claims to have chosen a pseudonym “upon the counsel of Arab friends, after these became familiar with my work theses,”[4] to protect himself against possible violent repercussions.[5]”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christoph_Luxenberg#Use_of_pseudonym

    I don’t think your ad hominem attempt to deprecate his work as unnoticed is a valid criticism. Neither does your strawman attack on a small detail of his scholarship invalidate the whole work.

    > if we actually pinned our tradition on being validated by non-Muslims

    You critique Christianity. What comes around goes around. Is Islam somehow above scholarly study?

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Anon
  16. Talha says:
    @Anonymous

    The newspapers are simply reporting his findings. I suggest you actually read some of the critical reviews by academics linked to in the page that you referenced. I haven’t found many people convinced or impressed by it. Up to you what you consider sound.

    Islam is totally up for scholarly study, when you find a sound critique of the oral tradition; I’d like to see it.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  17. Anon[405] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    If these “Arab friends” were known to be Muslim scholars, there would be more of a point to the mentioning of them.

    And I say this as someone who is not unsympathetic to the idea that the Muslim tradition could do with a lot more critical study than it is likely to get in the near future.

    By this I don’t mean the sort of purely destructive “work” that Knox burlesqued in The Identity of the Pseudo-Bunyan and Materials for a Boswellian Problem.

    I have no idea if Luxenberg is worth reading; he sounds interesting enough.

    His work has got the attention of The New York Times, The Guardian, Newsweek

    Okay, so so far he has the credibility I give Max Boot?

  18. Anon[405] • Disclaimer says:
    @Kratoklastes

    Mencken was a Dawkinseque memelord who will convince hardly anybody not already convinced.

    Ingersoll was a real intellectual and a good writer but he is a drop in the ocean of real intellectuals and good writers on this subject, most of whom disagree with each other. Clearly to have discovered intellectualism and good writing is not to have discovered a self-sufficient guide to the apprehension of truth.

  19. Anonymous[152] • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    First you posit that nobody takes him seriously, then you have to admit that newspapers and scholars around the world take him seriously enough to report and review his work. Can you just admit you were wrong? You’ve already lost your credibility in telling falsehoods about his work.

    • Replies: @Talha
  20. Talha says:
    @Anonymous

    Did you read the reviews? Academics consider his views extreme and way out there. That’s not taking him seriously, that’s warning people about his work.

    Peace.

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