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Why Harvard Is Right to Discriminate Against Asians
Introducing the Cognitive Crossover developmental model of East Asian intelligence
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The winning 2018 US Math Olympiad Team: Adam Ardeishar, Andrew Gu, Vincent Huang, James Lin, Michael Ren and Mihir Singhal.

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“I have been doing business in China for decades, and I will tell you that yeah, the Chinese can take a test, but what they can’t do is innovate.” – Carly Fiorina, former HP CEO, 2015.

Discrimination that is based on hate is morally wrong. But not all discrimination is necessarily wrong or immoral. A doctor can rightly refuse to prescribe a certain popular drug that a man wants, based on how he will react to the drug – which can be based on his gender, or even his race.

A high profile lawsuit by East Asian (American) students claimed that Harvard, like other elite universities, discriminates against East Asian applicants in its admissions process. Although Asians are over-represented at these institutions (compared to their relative population in the U.S.), the evidence seems to suggest that there would have been even more Asians at Harvard if admittance was purely on high school academic records and test score performance.

Harvard will obviously never admit that they do consciously discriminate against fully qualified Asians, but there is every (statistical) reason to suspect that they probably do. They apparently do this by giving many of the Asians a low “personality” score, even when their academic record in high school is exceptionally good.

This may seem unfair at first sight, but what if there was a perfectly valid and fair reason to effectively discriminate against Asians? What if, in spite of Harvard’s misguided diversity goals, such discrimination actually offsets some other unmeritocratic advantage that Asians have? And no, I am not talking about Tiger moms or intense test preparation. I think the Asian kids are actually genuinely smarter than everyone at that age, with or without the extreme test preparations. So, why am I advocating some kind of objective discrimination against them in general?

In this article, I will argue that young East Asians develop their cognitive abilities faster than the young of every other population and thus reach their full mental capacity much earlier than everyone else. In adulthood, many other people from other groups — in this analysis I will particularly focus on white Americans since there are other complex issues with Blacks and Hispanics — catch up with or even overtake them. This early development gives East Asians an early cognitive edge which they naturally use to gain a practice advantage in all academic subjects and cognitive tests, and get into gifted schools and elite universities. Unfortunately, this test score superiority does not translate to intellectual leadership or dominance in adulthood after other people’s brains also fully mature and/pr continue to mature.

If this hypothesis is true, then the real problem with Harvard is not that they effectively discriminate against East Asian applicants, but rather that they do not do enough of it. They admit a large portion of high-scoring Asians, expecting them to be the next intellectual leaders of society, but they end up being almost just normal achievers in adulthood. Thus, an academic system that was designed to select the best of the best, the crème de la crème – the future guiding lights of society – ends up selecting for hard working followers with only slightly above-average intellectual contributions to society.

An analogy should help here. Imagine that country X decided to launch an ambitious basketball program that identifies future professional basketball players in their early ages and puts them on special training teams so that they can learn the skills of the game from an early age. The program would likely look at the tallest children in early age groups because these generally end up being the tallest adults and hence the best suited for super-elite basketball professions.

This would work well and fine until some new race of children migrates to country X from another country where children grow taller faster but reach their potential full height at age 14 or something, meaning that they end up shorter when the indigenous country X kids reach their full heights at age 21. The basketball program that reliably produced the best basketball players would now be filled with the wrong kids due to the wrong assumption that all people from everywhere develop their height at the same exact pace that ultimately correlates with adult height. By the time it is realized that these new kids do not actually grow into the tallest adults, it could be too late: the genuinely taller kids have not received the training needed to play pro basketball, and you can’t deny basketball jobs to the trained kids (without risking civil rights lawsuits).

Meritocracy Vs Diversity?

I should emphasize from the onset that I do not believe diversity should ever be the goal of any rational institution or society. It’s obvious why the best minds should be allowed to advance as high as their ability can take them in any field: we want the best possible neurosurgeons operating on our brains, not the ones who were hired for their race, gender, sexual orientation or some other trait that has nothing to with the ability to safely perform a retro-sigmoid craniotomy. We want the best pilots flying our planes, the best engineers building our self-driving cars; it doesn’t matter if 100 percent of them turn out to be Asian. It is irrational, and ultimately dangerous, to ever put “diversity” above true merit, at least for any job that is critically dependent on well-motivated natural competence.

However, this does not necessarily mean that every method of predicting the kinds and levels of that potential competence, especially among still-developing young students, is necessarily accurate, especially as demographics change radically.

The Virtue of Testing

One of the best things to happen to American society was the introduction of intelligence testing (SATs, ACTsetc) for selecting students to elite universities. This was really an inevitable result of the American spirit of meritocracy making its full break from the aristocratic heritage of Old Europe. Smart children from poor families had the chance of buying their own ticket to the highest classes of society by simply proving their God-given talents on these tests. As they held that paper and pen to compete on solving these abstract puzzles, their future was literally in their hands.

Unfortunately, the assumption behind these tests has always been that all human populations everywhere are basically the same, and therefore develop at the same “normal” “human” pace. When the tests were given to Americans at the beginning of the 20th century, they were pretty accurate at predicting which people would become the next leaders of society in just about every field, because these tended to be more cognitively developed relative to their age. The most elite colleges selected for the highest scorers on these scholastic and achievement tests because they were expected to produce the next thought leaders of industry, politics, academia, law, media etc: the American innovators.

What has not been realized, as immigration has grown progressively in America, is that these childhood achievements are not necessarily accurate predictors of relative intellectual leadership ability when people being tested together are very different. Some people from some of the newer immigrant groups may do better on these tests, not because they have the highest intellectual potential to be the next leaders of the world, but simply because they are able to outperform others in the pre-adult stages of life. Only because they have a different “normal” trajectory of growth, one that may ultimately end at odds with that earlier advantage, as they grow into their late 20’s, 30’s and 40’s.

Palantir

The lawsuit against Harvard was not the only high profile anti-discrimination Asian lawsuit of recent years. In 2016, a group of Asian engineers sued a very selective (and very secretive) company in Silicon Valley called Palantir, founded by the iconoclastic investor, Peter Thiel. Although, like Harvard, Palantir has many Asians, the plaintiffs — the lawsuit was brought by the Department of Labor — had good reason to believe that Palantir would have hired many more of them if the selection was done purely on traditional “merit.” Asians, after all, are the best credentialed American subpopulation, especially with their large numbers graduating from elite universities like Stanford, Harvard, MIT, Caltech etc. Instead, Palantir apparently hired a few more whites with slightly less colorful credentials. They ultimately settled (without admission of guilt) and were forced to hire some of the Asians associated with the lawsuit, as part of the deal.

If Palantir follows anything close to Thiel’s personal philosophy on selecting the best minds, then it should not be surprising that they would essentially discriminate against some East Asians. One of the questions Thiel asks entrepreneurs who want his envied investment capital is, “tell me one opinion you strongly hold that other people tend to strongly oppose” (paraphrased). Thiel looks for a certain kind of independent thinking and originality in his prospective entrepreneurs; perhaps Palantir also wanted a bit of that imaginative creativity for some of its top engineering jobs, especially for overarching strategic suggestions involving more than just incremental coding abilities.

Many Asians now believe they are just victims of some kind of racial bias from white Americans (especially) that keeps them from these top decision-making jobs in Silicon Valley and elsewhere. They call it “the bamboo ceiling,” and they believe that white employers are simply affected by the Asian stereotype of lack of creative leadership abilities, or that they may just want to promote fellow whites.

However, the East Asian creativity problem is even acknowledged by China itself, the largest East Asian country. Thus, although China now has many patents granted to its most “inventive” citizens, Chinese government officials themselves have constantly decried the lack of true originality contained in most of these uninspiring patents. It is doubtful that the Chinese government is just being influenced by the same old Asian stereotypes!

The Asian disconnect between test score prowess in school and subsequent intellectual achievement is not limited to the tech industry. Asians now complain about the bamboo ceiling in the entertainment industry, the legal profession, the advertising industry, and so on. But it is very unlikely that there is a coordinated conspiracy to keep them down in all these areas where ascendance is predicated on distinguishing oneself through constant initiative. When one sees bamboos everywhere, it may be time to question if the bamboos are not just convenient apparitions in one’s own head!

What is more likely is that Asian intelligence develops faster than everyone else and takes many Asians through elite programs that grant them exceptional credentials, but that cognitive advantage disappears in adulthood as others also reach full development (while missing similar elite credentials sometimes), which leads to an awkward social paradox. Only the truly best of the best Asians remain dominant at these older ages; but the numbers are only a fraction of those who passed through these selective elite programs and received their accreditation of presumptive genius!

The common approach to the East Asian creativity problem has been to suggest that something in Asian culture or Asian education system just stifles their creativity. But the fact that the pattern holds even for Asians born and bred in the West, including those adopted by white families, points to a more robust feature.

Others suggest that Asians have superior intelligence with inferior creativity because the two are not related. However, research in these fields increasingly suggests that the two cannot really be decoupled, especially for intellectual achievement.

It appears that the simplest answer is that the universally superior Asian intelligence found by white hereditarians, who were too eager to tout a higher IQ group that would show that they were not racists, is a myth, at least in adulthood.

IQ

Hereditarian IQ expert, J Phillippe Rushton, seemed to suggest that East Asians actually develop slower than everyone else, biologically, which would imply that even their cognitive ability develops more slowly.

But a cursory analysis of Rushton’s own reported data shows that the opposite trend is much more plausible, at least in the area of cognitive development. In one of his most famous articles, co-authored with Arthur Jensen, Rushton reports on the incredibly high IQs of young East Asian children, many of them coming from low socioeconomic conditions before being adopted into white American families:

Three studies of East Asian children adopted by White families support the hereditarian hypothesis. In the first, 25 four-year-olds from Vietnam, Korea, Cambodia, and Thailand, all adopted into White American homes prior to 3 years of age, excelled in academic ability with a mean IQ score of 120, compared with the U.S. norm of 100 (Clark & Hanisee, 1982). Prior to placement, half of the babies had required hospitalization for malnutrition.

In the second study, Winick, Meyer, and Harris (1975) found 141 Korean children adopted as infants by American families exceeded the national average in both IQ and achievement scores when they reached 10 years of age. The principal interest of the investigators was on the possible effects of severe malnutrition on later intelligence, and many of these Korean children had been malnourished in infancy. When tested, those who had been severely malnourished as infants obtained a mean IQ of 102; a moderately well-nourished group obtained a mean IQ of 106; and an adequately nourished group obtained a mean IQ of 112.

A study by Frydman and Lynn (1989) examined 19 Korean infants adopted by families in Belgium. At about 10 years of age, their mean IQ was 119, the verbal IQ was 111, and the performance IQ was 124. Even correcting the Belgian norms upward to 109 to account for the increase in IQ scores over time (about 3 IQ points a decade; see Section 13), the Korean children still had a statistically significant 10-point advantage in mean IQ over indigenous Belgian children.”

If these children are scoring as high as 120 on average at the age of four (despite being hospitalized for malnourishment) and 110 to 112 at the age of ten, it is implausible that their IQ goes up as they grow older, and neither is it likely that it stays the same. If we accept that Asian adult IQ is 104 to 106 as Rushton and others suggest, then even by their own data, it is more likely than not that Asian IQ goes downwards as they grow older. Your IQ, after all, is only about how you perform compared to people in your age group. If they begin to catch up or overtake you, this will show a decline in your IQ even without you necessarily becoming less “smart.”

Rushton was not the only psychologist to report such high scores for East Asian children. Another IQ researcher, Jason Malloy, later published some interesting scores from a long-lost study of Korean adoptees:

“The Wechsler norms used for the raw score conversion were from 1974, so 5 points should be deducted from the full-scale IQ of 122 (!!) to account for 16 years of norm inflation. This leaves us with a not much less intimidating average IQ of 117 for 43 transracially adopted Korean children. ” [His emphasis]

Although there have been reports of Asian children’s IQs that are significantly lower than this within East Asian countries (but still above 100), this could probably be because they are much less Westernized. When the same children move to the West, their figures show a higher IQ, particularly after learning the language. But if that’s true, why aren’t the IQs of children in Japan higher than those of children in the other Asian nations since Japan is putatively more Westernized?

Actually, in 1975, Professor Richard Lynn found that children in Japan were now scoring at 111 on an IQ test. He thought that this indicated a growing gap in real IQ between Japan and the West, but it was more likely just a reflection of the growing Westernization of Japanese culture, which reduces the cultural bias of the tests, and reveals the superior IQ of these children compared to European children. We know this because even Korean and Chinese children adopted to the West score as high as that, if not higher.

Hereditarian IQ experts have always used the fact that children in East Asia scored slightly higher than white children in the West as evidence that there was absolutely no cultural bias in the tests. But this is obviously a logical fallacy: they forgot to consider the possibility that Asian children were in fact scoring lower than they would without the cultural bias factor!

The bottom line is that East Asian children have extremely high IQs in those younger ages, but stagnate in older age, relatively speaking.

So imagine the folly of using the same selection standards for Asians as for other children when choosing which child to be put in the gifted programs around the U.S. In some school districts, a score that’s above 1 standard deviation over the mean is supposedly sufficient to be considered for the “gifted” class, so just about any average Asian child could qualify to such a program, which defies the very concept of ‘giftedness.’ We know, from their intellectual performance in adulthood, that they obviously do not have that many gifted people among them!

Caltech vs Stuyvesant

This downward trend in Asian cognitive dominance is probably demonstrated through a comparison between selective elite programs at different age groups.

The most test-based meritocratic university in America is arguably the California Institute of Technology (Caltech) in Pasadena, California. It also happens to have one of the highest populations of East Asians at 43 % (incidentally, internal memos released in the Harvard case revealed that Asians would be exactly 43% of Harvard if only academics were considered!).

43 percent sounds very impressive until you compare it to Asian over-representation at an even younger age. Stuyvesant High School in New York City famously uses nothing but test scores to admit the best students in the city. Although Asians are only 15 percent of New York’s population, they are an astounding 74% of Stuyvesant!

This pattern is repeated all over the country where competitive gifted programs are offered in wealthy or powerful multiethnic cities.

One of the most prestigious high schools in the United States is the Thomas Jefferson High School of Science and Technology in Fairfax County, Virginia. It has been ranked the best high school in the nation several times by Newsweek and other publications. The school has been funded by the Department of Defense itself, probably because they want to nurture gifted young brains that will contribute to the wild breakthrough inventions that the DOD has historically been famous for.

TJHS takes its students from Fairfax and nearby cities like Loudon. Fairfax and Loudon are the two wealthiest counties in the entire United States and they have similar demographics (68 percent white and only 18 percent Asian.) But the school, named in honor of the most verbally gifted American founding father, is 74% Asian in its class of 2018-2019! (This is particularly astonishing when you consider that this is in one of the top states for white IQ in the whole country!)

Unfortunately, the DOD will probably not see the cognitive return on its investment because Asians are simply not known for wild, breakthrough inventions, as both the Chinese and Japanese governments have lamented.

Apparently, as you go from meritocratic high school to meritocratic college, Asian dominance starts dissipating a bit. And when you go beyond college, it starts approaching normal, before moving into reverse, until a “bamboo ceiling” starts showing up everywhere. At Caltech itself, the ratio of East Asian professors is much less than the Asian ratio of undergraduate students.

I looked at the department most likely to favor Asian numbers due to their strengths in quantitative fields, the Department of Physics, Mathematics and Astronomy. I counted only about 8 East Asians out of 74 professors. At 10.8 %, this is still high for a group that is only 5 % of the American population, but it is nowhere near its 43% Caltech student population or its unbelievable 74% at Stuyvesant and other gifted schools.

At older ages, Asians struggle to keep their edge. Professorships come at older ages than national merit finals, Fields Medals in mathematics come at older ages than math olympiads. Most executive positions in the corporate world come at even older ages.

Thus, although Asians are 12 percent of American professionals, they are only 5% percent of the executives. This means that the group that was vastly overrepresented at meritocratic schools and colleges are now almost exactly the same as their ratio to the rest of the US population (5 percent) when it comes to positions where gifted adults are most likely to thrive. In short, they literally regress to the average.

Conclusion and Suggestion

It may seem impossible that East Asians just happen to lose their large childhood IQ advantage in adulthood, but it is not so implausible if you think about it. For example, psychologists say that general intelligence can be subdivided into two parts: fluid and crystallized. They say that crystallized intelligence (which correlates with verbal intelligence etc) does not stop growing until quite late in adulthood, whereas fluid intelligence (which correlates with quantitative reasoning etc), starts declining after age 20.

Asians are apparently strong on fluid intelligence, or at least the quantitative factor in it (hence their math prowess), but count verbal intelligence as their biggest Achilles’ heel. Given the trajectories of these two aspects of intelligence in adulthood, it should not be completely implausible to expect an average Asian decline in total cognitive ability relative to groups that are stronger in verbal intelligence. (This may possibly explain why Ashkenazi Jews have the opposite reputation in adulthood since verbal intelligence, their strongest endowment, is apparently the new competitive landscape in cognitive adulthood).

But even if my “cognitive crossover” explanation of why Asians dominate at young ages but not at older ages is quickly falsified, the fact that they do not maintain the same level of “giftedness” in adulthood is incontrovertible (one group of researchers led by a Japanese scholar even published a paper suggesting that East Asians may just be lacking in some creativity genes!) It should therefore follow that the gifted programs and elite universities in the United States are grossly over-selecting for Asians who will not ultimately possess the distinguished intellectual potential presumed on them.

Many liberals would love to abolish the entire testing system and get rid of the gifted schools altogether, which will only punish those who are genuinely gifted and truly precocious (including the genuinely gifted Asians). Conservatives, on the other hand, want to “conserve” whatever worked in the past, without asking if it really does still work as originally intended, especially when demographics have radically changed. The rational answer must be somewhere in the middle.

My proposal is not to make the testing standards for gifted programs and elite institutions easier in order to reduce Asian representation. Rather, I am suggesting that they should be made harder – much harder.

Truly gifted children not only score above their peers on tests, they also show signs of a higher character of independent thinking and creativity; they tend to march to the beat of their own drum, without losing their mind (usually). Besides the regular tests, a real test of creative independence should be included in the selection process.

By asking his prospective entrepreneurs to describe any opinion they hold that sets them apart from (and against) their smart circles of friends, Peter Thiel has designed a simple formula for identifying the truly gifted from among those who likely also have test smarts. A similar idea should be used in the gifted education system at every level, to ferret out the independent creatives from among those with relatively high test scores: if your creativity does not align with your high academic score, you should be automatically disqualified. Your “personality” should not matter.

This will separate those who are precocious due to genuine giftedness from those whose precocity is merely a function of a faster route to the average.

End.

Support my continuing private research in this area by becoming my patron at www.patreon.com/chisala . Thank you.

 
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  1. This website is foolishness. The first sentence of this article – don’t hate! – gives its pro-multicult agenda away: “Asians are not leaving but we should understand their strengths and weaknesses to better manage the country. But they shouldn’t be made to leave”. Sorry. they have to go. The goal of New Right metapolitics is to turn this nation white again. I don’t care about limiting Asians’ access to Harvard I care about sending them home. I could go on about them being hive-minded robots of low-dominance and charisma but that’s overstating – they are a racial competitor to Europeans and do not belong here. It’s worse as far as I can tell in Canada, where the Chinese government is buying up massive real estate in British Columbia and encouraging their people to populate specific regions; Ricardo Duchesne on his website has written about a Chinese professor named Henry Yu in Vancouver who hates white people and wants THEM gone from Canada. This Hell of the modern West cannot be managed.

  2. PaulM says:

    Is this for real?
    The genetic differences between populations are marginal – and it is well-known that environmental impacts significantly decide on what genes are express or modified. So its not genes which explains the author’s prejudices. We know also that IQ scores are purely related to pieces of information acquired in a particular culture and absolutely nothing to do with ‘intelligence’ or ‘giftedness”- (whatever that is)

    We know also that Chinese culture in its different forms has been around for just a little while longer than “Western pink” culture, and in that time innovated and refined many of the artifacts that define most human culture in the world today.

    Adaptation and innovation are signs of a particular skill-set a person has acquired, but one of many many skills that we could pick and choose from in human behaviour and say- ‘this is what matters’

    I am astounded that such pretense at analysis by this author is used to justify their ‘racial’ prejudices. I am wondering which particular human skin shade the author thinks has more inherent innovation?

  3. Daemon says:

    Darkie of the head-bobber variety wanting to kneecap the northern competition.
    How typical.

  4. @PaulM

    “I am wondering which particular human skin shade the author thinks has more inherent innovation?”

    He goes by Scrabble ability, not skin color.

  5. Bruno says:

    You could have both : asian having a higher IQ after 21 , let’s say 105, and being more developed at an earlier stage, thus giving them a 120-115-110-105 IQ at 7-12-17-22 yo.

    But if your hypothesis is that their adult IQ is lower than the white one to explain away the creativity gap, then you left many asian success (their number for example since long) unexplained.

    The thing is that hypothesis can be tested with WAIS test results probably altready existing.

    That’s an extremely interesting hypothesis and very paradoxical because for many functions the asian develop slower-later this the white (who develops later than the black) .

    • Replies: @Bruno
  6. Anonymous[821] • Disclaimer says:

    You could test for this hypothesis easily by looking at IQ data by age.

    Is there IQ data available for older adults?

    I’m skeptical of this hypothesis, but like I said, it could be tested easily. I think personality traits explain differences in achievement. IQ is important, but so are extroversion, aggression, people skills, etc. in social competition.

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
  7. Wally says:
    @PaulM

    Said:
    “The genetic differences between populations are marginal ”

    – The genetic differences between chimpanzees & humans are marginal.

    said:
    “and it is well-known that environmental impacts significantly decide on what genes are express or modified”

    – No, it’s not “well known”.

    • Replies: @Herald
  8. @PaulM

    The genetic differences between populations are marginal – and it is well-known that environmental impacts significantly decide on what genes are express or modified.

    Wrong on both counts. Genetic differences are neither marginal nor do environmental impacts significantly modify them in individuals.

    We know also that Chinese culture in its different forms has been around for just a little while longer than “Western pink” culture, and in that time innovated and refined many of the artifacts that define most human culture in the world today.

    This is true enough. Chinese culture may not have produced science, but it produced quite a lot of original technology in an ad hoc fashion – so much so that once Westerners got a taste for it they kept looking for more of it. Christopher Columbus was not on holiday when he found the New World while looking for a way to China.

    But this technology was produced over many centuries. China at no point in its history came close to producing the kind of originality and quality of work that Europeans were able to do over the last four centuries.

  9. @Colin Wright

    Why does Unz publish this idiot?

    For the same reason he publishes most others here. Because no one else will publish them.

    • Replies: @iffen
  10. @Colin Wright

    Why does Unz publish this idiot?

    To give imbeciles like you something to read so you can improve to ‘idiot’ one day.

  11. dvorak says:

    I am astounded that such pretense at analysis by this author is used to justify their ‘racial’ prejudices. I am wondering which particular human skin shade the author thinks has more inherent innovation?

    You must be new here.

    You must be behind the times, it was recently discovered that race is cerebral-cortex-deep.

  12. dvorak says:

    When one sees bamboos everywhere, it may be time to question if the bamboos are not just convenient apparitions in one’s own head!

    The parsimonious explanation for the bamboo ceiling is East Asian introversion, rather than the author’s explanation.

    Taking Nobel prize winners as evidence of creativity, Ashkenazi Jews would seem to have something special going on. But the recent appearance of Japanese Nobelists in numbers means that it is still too soon to conclude anything about East Asians’ creativity vs. Whites’. In pop culture, Whites have a lot of contributions (pop music including rock) but, again, some Japanese creations have swept the world since the 1980s (video games, children’s TV shows).

  13. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:

    By this authors same argument, one could also limit the amount of blacks in the NBA or NFL.

    Blacks develop faster physically than other races, so maybe their prowess on the football and basketball field is exaggerated since they have an early advantage.

    Anyone think the jiggaboo Chanda wants to do this?

    The other part of the article was just a bunch of drivel.

    Harvard and the other ivies do not want East asians because being elite now a days looks down on doing anything that actually creates value. They will let those Asians go to MIT.

    Being elite in the modern age is more being charismatic and being a politician.

    • Replies: @Castle Bravo
    , @Okechukwu
  14. Adrian E. says:

    In principle, I think the hypothesis Chanda Chisala is advancing is worth investigating. At the moment, it seems to have little credibility since it is not backed up by evidence (and certainly, without evidence, it cannot serve as a basis for the justification of discriminatory admission practices).

    I would just like to point out where the text is clearly fallacious in my view.

    Chanda Chisala compares the percentage of students at Caltech with the percentage of professors at Caltech. The fact that the former is much higher than the latter is then suggested to mean that Asian adults’ intelligence is much lower than the one of Asian adolescents. But of course, most professors have become professors quite a long time ago – at a time when there were much fewer Northeast Asian students and Northeast Asians in general in North America.

    The same goes, of course, for top executives. People mostly become top executives after a career that takes some time and then they stay top executives for some time. Since the percentage of Northeast Asians in the US population has been rising, it makes no sense to compare the percentage of Northeast Asians among current top executives with the current percentage of Northeast Asians in the US population.

    None of this is meant to say that IQ alone really explains all exceptional science and business achievements and that, despite their higher average IQ, there might not be reasons why Northeast Asians are less successful than would be expected on the basis of IQ alone. There might be many such reasons (e.g. discrimination or personality traits), but first, it should be established whether there is a gap to be explained, at all. I don’t claim that there necessarily isn’t one, but it hasn’t been shown clearly enough that there is one. Certainly, comparing the percentage of Asian professors at Caltech to the *current* percentage of Asian students at Caltech (rather than the percentage at the time when they became professors) is not a useful contribution to the discussion whether there is such a gap.

    Looking beyond the US, it is also remarkable that many claims about Asians achieving less than would be expected on the basis of intelligence measurements are based on Nobel prizes. There are many reasons why it might be problematic to derive too much from an award that is given to so few people and not on the basis of objective criteria, but by a small committee. But one of the biggest problems is that Nobel Prizes are backward-looking – people usually receive Nobel prizes at a relatively advanced age after decades of work and often to a significant degree due to achievements decades ago. There are other methods like quotation indices for determining achievements in science that, compared with Nobel prizes, look more at the present. According to such measurements, Northeast Asians have a much more important position in science than according to backward-looking measures like Nobel prizes. Again, this does not give exact enough estimates to say something whether and which factors apart from intelligence are important and whether there might be important differences between Europeans and Asians as to these other factors, but one thing is clear when you look at backward-looking measures (such as Nobel prizes) and present-looking measures (e.g. citation indices): the position of Northeast Asians relative people of European descent is rising fast.

    • Replies: @Aft
  15. Thomm says:
    @Colin Wright

    Why does Unz publish this idiot?

    The reason is obvious once you realize what the true purpose of this website is :

    http://www.unz.com/anepigone/there-be-reelection/#comment-3339592

  16. @PaulM

    The genetic differences between populations are marginal – and it is well-known that environmental impacts significantly decide on what genes are express or modified.

    And that’s all that’s known. The effects that can be measured between races (and for that matter between families and regional groups _within_ races) appear to be large enough to matter. Genes (and genetic expressions) just aren’t well enough understood for genetic similarity arguments to offset observation of actual behavior. In fact, the field appears to be just about at the level of correlation between gene presence and specific genetic diseases/drug reactions. Correlation at that level is a far cry from prediction of personality / cognitive ability / personality component weighting.

    Counterinsurgency

  17. But if your hypothesis is that their adult IQ is lower than the white one to explain away the creativity gap, then you left many asian success (their number for example since long) unexplained.

    Unexplained and un-described, at least by you. Give examples, please.

    Counterinsurgency

  18. Bruno says:
    @Bruno

    And the over representation in IT is not explained by testing at a younger age. At University, tests are not used to discriminate at higber level than IT firms.  For top 50 Universitie, they recruit mainly in the top 10% to 5%. So it’s not more selective than IT skills in Silicon Valley when you can’t explain away asian over-representation by test.

    You should check if asian in IT are more migrants or first generation kids. But it looks unprobable. The good thing with you hypothesis is that it can be checked and it is higly paradoxical. Hbd bad thing is that it’s probably false but focusing on IQ development speed’differences (both among individual and races) is valuable.

    • Replies: @PorkTastic
  19. Durruti says:

    My proposal is not to make the testing standards for gifted programs and elite institutions easier in order to reduce Asian representation. Rather, I am suggesting that they should be made harder – much harder.

    Some helpful suggestions & reminders to save this Zionist institution, Harvard. And to Discriminate better.

    1. Asians with smaller than average sexual appendages should, not only be expelled from Harvard, they should be sent back to Hong Kong.

    2. The last good Graduate of Harvard was Pedro Albizu Campos.

    3. Extensive research at Joes Bar & Grill, has proved that there is only One Race, the Inhuman/er-Human? race.

    4. More research at our local Tiki Bar, has proven that Harvard would benefit from a complete ban on all Jews. [the Ban would work in Congress, in Banking, in Palestine, and many other places].

    5. Those with over sized members, should be banned from Harvard’s Basketball, Football, and Track team.

    6. Leave perverts alone! Do not hurt their feelings. 100% of Harvard’s students should be Queer, and take it up the Kazoo as their only entrance requirement. It worked for Bill (I have a blue dress), Clinton. Did he go to Harvard? He should have.

    7. Heavy research, accomplished by my town’s Homeless has proved that this IQ thing is just a Hoax. People are as smart as they want to be. American voters are a case in point.

    8. Anarchists should be banned from Malls and Serious Forums & web sites.

    Now do you see why Ron Unz will not print my articles?

    The pills are wearing off.

    God Bless America! I love this place. Thankyou Mom, & Dad.

    Durruti

    The Anarchist Collective.

  20. Mr. XYZ says:
    @Colin Wright

    Because Unz is open to publishing different viewpoints?

    • Replies: @lavoisier
  21. Polymath says:

    It’s not that East Asian kids naturally develop faster. It’s that they develop as fast as they can, because of cultural factors. Effort and training accelerate learning and cognitive development much more than they improve the final level attained.

    My impression as a teacher is that through high school, the East Asian kids are smarter than white kids in their age cohort, and are not less creative, but that the top white kids catch up to the top Asians in college and outdo them in grad school or professional careers. Below the top 1% the Asians continue to do well relative to whites.

    • Agree: Bruno
    • Replies: @Chanda Chisala
  22. Anonymous[439] • Disclaimer says:

    The article is the equivalent of throwing a fistful of dust into the reader’s eyes. It looks like Chanda Chisala’s IQ still needs some time to mature in her natural habitat. Personally, I’d send her back and build a wall around it.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  23. Tom Welsh says:

    The initial quotation from Carly Fiorina is laughable. Under her management, HP – once a brilliant centre of electronic innovation – dwindled to a mere shadow of its former self.

    I am surprised Ms Fiorina even knows how to spell “innovation”.

    • Agree: Rich
    • Replies: @BT Blaze
    , @Irish Savant
    , @Mj
  24. Tom Welsh says:

    Anyone who is in danger of taking this article seriously should have a look at Joseph Needham’s “Science and Civilisation in China”, the first volume of which was published in 1954, and which is still being added to and published today. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_and_Civilisation_in_China

    In particular, observe the list of volumes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_and_Civilisation_in_China#Volumes

  25. Aft says:
    @Colin Wright

    Stuyvesant is a red herring; the skew is because there are so few whites in NY public schools.

    TJHS is a school for science and technology (contra to your mention of its well-spoken founder). This skews especially strongly toward Asians because of their mathematical and especially spatial intelligence tilt.

    Your adult occupational status stats are all hopelessly biased by the younger skewing demographic of Asians in the US and West generally and you probably know that as well but just want to be misleading.

    This whole idea of Asians developing faster or whites developing later is complete and total nonsense with no support except one cute out of context anecdote. It’s very established how IQ trends over time (and after 18 it’s basically flat).

    Yes, Asians have comparable verbal intelligence to whites (not higher). Yes, there is definitely a streak of increased conformity relevant to doing truly groundbreaking against-the-grain work (which described science today less and less well; and which definitely doesn’t matter for most corporate roles). But the rest of this post is inane.

    • Replies: @res
  26. This article confuses age-adjusted IQ with adult IQ. IQ is weighted by age. Those adopted Korean Belgian children would have had an adult IQ of 90-100. 102-112 is actually a modest score for juveniles.

    • Replies: @Chanda Chisala
  27. Supposedly whites IQ is more than 100, yet they were happy to sell their countries to the zog bankers and are en-route to ruin the future? So much intelligence!!

    To the author – get your head out of your ***.

    Oh and before the civilisation started in white nations, China and India were way ahead in accomplishments. Whatever happened to that?

    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome
  28. Nik says:
    @Tim Stevens

    It is YOU who should be sent home… you are as much a marauding coloniser as any other white … amazing that you know so little abiut continental America and its history

  29. Nik says:
    @PaulM

    I think it humorous that you donot accept cognitive differences by race

  30. Nik says:
    @Colin Wright

    Yes why does UNZ publish Colin Wrights comments… hes an idiot

  31. Another interpretation of the data: First-rate students go to first-rate Chinese high schools and universities. Others, whose families have money, study abroad because there they have an edge. An anecdote* supporting this notion is appended, below.

    First-rate grad students who come to the West will rarely be promoted because of cultural and other biases. Many expat Chinese blogs attest to their frustration. Others will be actively persecuted by the FBI and others will face bogus charges: 90% of IP and espionage charges against Chinese nationals are dropped prior to trial–a 10x ratio over the next most charged, Japanese.
    http://cardozolawreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Kim.40.2.6.newcharts.pdf

    Pace Destroyer of Worlds Carly Fiorina, but China leads the world in basic research in math, computer science, chemistry and engineering and is fast closing the gap on the other Big Four. China also leads in most technologies, especially in the newer, hotter areas. So innovation is not a problem.

    [MORE]

    *It was the summer of 2000. I was 15, and I had just finished my high school entrance exam in China. I had made considerable improvements from where I started in first grade, when I had the second- worst grades in the class and had to sit at a desk perpendicular to the blackboard so that the teacher could keep a close eye on me. I had managed to become an average student in an average school. My parents by then had reached the conclusion that I was not going anywhere promising in China and were ready to send me abroad for high school. Contrary to all expectations, however, I got the best mark in my class and my school. The exam scores were so good that I ranked within the top ten among more than 100,000 students in the whole city. My teacher and I both assumed the score was wrong when we first heard it.
    As a consequence, I got into the best class in the best school in my city, and thus began the most painful year of my life. My newfound confidence was quickly crushed when I saw how talented my new classmates were. In the first class, our math teacher announced that she would start from chapter four of the textbook, as she assumed, correctly, that most of us were familiar with the first three chapters and would find it boring to go through them again. Most of the class had been participating in various competitions in middle school and had become familiar with a large part of the high school syllabus already. Furthermore, they had also grown to know each other from those years of competitions together. And here I was, someone who didn’t know anything or anyone, surrounded by people who knew more to begin with, who were much smarter, and who worked just as hard as I did. What chance did I have?
    During that year, I tried very hard to catch up: I gave up everything else and even moved somewhere close to the school to save time on the commute, but to no avail. Over time, going to school and competing while knowing I was sure to lose became torture. Yet I had to do it every day. At the end-of-year exam, I scored second from the bottom of the class—the same place where I began in first grade. But this time it was much harder to accept, after the glory I had enjoyed just one year earlier and the huge amount of effort I had put into studying this year. Finally, I threw in the towel, and asked my parents to send me abroad. Anywhere else on this earth would surely be better.
    So I came to the UK in 2001, when I was 16 years old. Much to my surprise, I found the UK’s exam-focused educational system very similar to the one in China. What is more, in both countries, going to the “right schools” and getting the “right job” are seen as very important by a large group of eager parents. As a result, scoring well on exams and doing well in school interviews—or even the play session for the nursery or pre-prep school—become the most important things in the world. Even at the university level, the undergraduate degree from the University of Cambridge depends on nothing else but an exam at the end of the last year.
    On the other hand, although the UK’s university system is considered superior to China’s, with a population that is only one-twentieth the size of my native country, competition, while tough, is less intimidating. For example, about one in ten applicants gets into Oxbridge in the UK, and Stanford and Harvard accept about one in twenty-five applicants. But in Hebei province in China, where I am from, only one in fifteen hundred applicants gets into Peking or Qinghua University.
    Still, I found it hard to believe how much easier everything became. I scored first nationwide in the GCSE (high school) math exam, and my photo was printed in a national newspaper. I was admitted into Trinity College, University of Cambridge, once the home of Sir Isaac Newton, Francis Bacon, and Prince Charles.
    I studied economics at Cambridge, a field which has become more and more mathematical since the 1970s. The goal is always to use a mathematical model to find a closed-form solution to a real-world problem. Looking back, I’m not sure why my professors were so focused on these models. I have since found that the mistake of blindly relying on models is quite widespread in both trading and investing—often with disastrous results, such as the infamous collapse of the hedge fund Long-Term Capital Management. Years later, I discovered the teaching of Warren Buffett: it is better to be approximately right than precisely wrong. But our professors taught us to think of the real world as a math problem.
    The culture of Cambridge followed the dogmas of the classroom: a fervent adherence to rules and models established by tradition. For example, at Cambridge, students are forbidden to walk on grass. This right is reserved for professors only. The only exception is for those who achieve first class honors in exams; they are allowed to walk on one area of grass on one day of the year.
    The behavior of my British classmates demonstrated an even greater herd mentality than what is often mocked in American MBAs. For example, out of the thirteen economists in my year at Trinity, twelve would go on to join investment banks, and five of us went to work for Goldman Sachs. – The Western Elite from a Chinese Perspective. By Puzhong Yao. American Affairs. https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2017/11/western-elite-chinese-perspective/

    • Agree: Ber
  32. padre says:

    Who invented gunpowder, paper, printing, compas, if the are not inventive?

    • Replies: @David
    , @skeptic23
  33. Alfred says:

    Yet surveys have shown that high scorers in IQ tests become higher-paid and higher achieving in later life. The problem, then, is obviously in the test, and any testing, itself. One solution is to not let any east Asians take academic tests until they reach thirty years of age or just let them shoot from the foul line in high school for grades. Or we could always sell them opium cheaply or put it in their mashed potatoes in the cafeteria.

    On the other hand, China, The Middle Kingdom, was a leading and innovating power for centuries. They must have stolen their ideas from the West of the Dark Ages, intellectual theft being another thing east Asians are good at.

    The number of east Asians in elite schools the article says, is “disproportionate” to their number in the US population. Come to think of it, so is the number of Jewish-Americans at Harvard.

    • Replies: @bilge pump
  34. There is perhaps an alternative explanation for the under representation of ‘East Asian’ people in higher level positions in industry and academia. It is that progression to these positions is less influenced by objective criteria of intellectual merit and more influenced by subjective criteria that reflect longstanding class and culturally based bias. It is perhaps the case that the further up the heirarchy one travels the less meritocratic it becomes.

    Citing something called creativity as an explanatory variable, without offering a valid definition of the concept, doesn’t really advance our understanding of the matter. Without such a definition the author’s theory remains untestable. The problem for the author is that there continues to be considerable disagreement over what constitutes creativity and how to measure it.

    In particular, half-assed questions like “Tell me one opinion you strongly hold which other people tend to strongly oppose?” are likely to elict culturally determined responses rather than provide a valid measure of the fundamental ability to engage in independent or creative thought. It is as if such a question were, wittingly or unwittingly, designed to establish the extent to which the person answering the question is similar in manners and upbringing to the person posing the question.

    Proposing an early onset decline in intelligence among ‘East Asian’ people is a bold thesis but one that seems to lack persuasive empirical evidence. Indeed, one might ask if there is any direct evidence in support of it, either in the form of an early decline in intelligence test scores, or some convincing neurophysiological mechanism that might account for such a decline? As it is, the author’s thesis provides no better explanation for the observed phenomenon than other explanations based on increasing selection bias at the higher levels of industry and academia.

    I apologise if the phrase “half-assed” was an example incorrect usage.

  35. Miro23 says:

    We want the best pilots flying our planes, the best engineers building our self-driving cars; it doesn’t matter if 100 percent of them turn out to be Asian.

    Well, funnily enough it does matter.

    If some people come along and say that they can run your house better than you can – and therefore have the right to do it – and move in and put themselves in charge (+ dispute your ownership) – Would you welcome that?

    This somewhat retarded article seems to suggest that it doesn’t matter if 100% of the creative work in China is done by Europeans (they’re supposedly better at it you know).

    • Replies: @Miro23
    , @Irish Savant
  36. China steals Wakanda technology!

  37. Paul says:

    The theory I have heard as to why the great intellectual achievements during the centuries since the Renaissance have come mostly from men of European ancestry is because of the West’s emphasis on individualism. I do not know if there is anything to that as being the reason.

    • Replies: @Ber
  38. Realist says:
    @Tim Stevens

    Sorry. they have to go. The goal of New Right metapolitics is to turn this nation white again.

    What are you going to do with all the blacks?

  39. Nodwink says:
    @Tim Stevens

    If this is your mentality, then you might end up being scalped by a Cherokee.

  40. Nodwink says:

    This whole argument about the lack of East Asian creativity was manufactured for two reasons:

    1) to protect mediocre students (mostly Jewish) from wealthy backgrounds, whose parents were ex-students and who donate money

    2) to prop up its sports teams, as many middle-class Asians disdain sports like American football

  41. Miro23 says:
    @Miro23

    Also, what was the independence fight about in Northern Rhodesia? The British administration was quite good and a lot less corrupt than what became Zambia. According the author’s argument, the Africans shouldn’t have questioned British colonialism.

    Zambia belongs to the Zambians and they have an absolute right to make a mess of it any way they want.

    • Replies: @Attila
    , @foolisholdman
  42. anonymous[129] • Disclaimer says:

    I am Chinese and found this piece to be a worthwhile read.

    I have a few critiques:

    1. Bamboo ceiling is mostly used in the context of the very low levels of penetration by Asians into the executive ranks of corporate America. I believe the predominant factor holding Asians back in corporate America is poorer people skills. So I think referring to the bamboo ceiling as evidence of Asian intelligence declining to mediocrity in middle age is mixing up people skills with IQ.

    2. Putting aside Asians cognitively develop faster, there’s a lot of race and IQ testing of adults. So I would think the the moderate average Asian IQ advantage above 100 is not questioned based on the existing data. Therefore explaining the relative lack of Asian accomplishments turns to personality factors. Jewish success is based on certain personality factors in abundance. The same personality factors are found at lower levels in Asians than compared to white gentiles.

    Thompson and Karlin have explored curiosity and its connection to innovation. Jews have a lot of curiosity whether it be in Wall Street (e.g. hedge fund investment strategies) or scientific pursuits (e.g. Nobel Prize research). There is another under explored personality quality tied to innovation and accomplishment in general: drive or achievement motivation. Jews have a lot of drive.

    I wonder if there are any tests for curiosity and drive? And any publication of results divided by race?

    • Replies: @Counterinsurgency
  43. Tsigantes says:

    This article falls into the trap of the American obsession with race and IQ and emerges the poorer for it.

    Any educational system that depends so heavily on IQ tests and marks will automatically produce many more misses than hits among its students. Especially for the universities deemed most competitive. In turn most of the graduates it churns out – especially the summa cum laudes – will be aggressive conformists and predictable parroters of the institution’s reigning ideology rather than anything remotely approximating an original or inventive thinker. This should be obvious to all. It is the built-in weakness of applying industrial principles, i.e. Fordism, to an incalculable and elusive value as education.

    Education is not a regurgitation of a prescribed bodies of knowledge; it is the digestion and questioning of that knowledge breeding a hunger for more. It is also by no means merely intellectual, which is our lowest and mot easily deluded function – it engages the heart, the intuition and also instinct. It is lifelong and cannot be predicted.

    Thus to fault asian students working within such a system for lack of originality is absurd and throws no light on Asian potential: originality and creativity have no place in this production line nor in the jobs that follow.

    If job-providing diplomas and degrees were stripped from education we would see a truer picture!

  44. Yet another reason why the diversity fantasy is a killer of societies. Attempts in the real world to accommodate all human categories drag everyone down to a lowest common denominator, ultimately destroying the society as a whole.

    The author’s suggestions are probably good ones. But they will not be implemented in our lifetimes. The left is currently in charge of society. Their latest ruse is equity. Equity is a sly attempt to repackage equality, which leftists realize is getting stale. Equity is forcing subjective fairness onto society via individual handicapping, such as what’s done with racehorses. Regardless, the stealth goal of leftists is to equalize everyone. Equity is a new salient in an ongoing war. It’s simply equality in a more elaborate box.

    Equity is a fantasy, equality is a lie, and the pursuit of equality is evil.

    • Replies: @Counterinsurgency
  45. Haole2 says:

    Ok,. But explain why Asians should give up slots at the best universities for blacks and Hispanics? Where are blacks supply leadership?

  46. Svevlad says:

    I have the solution, to all these problems:

    mass selective breeding

  47. Once the global elites are finished with white people, East Asians will be next to be inundated with mass immigration and self-hating propaganda. In fact I increasingly see the agenda shifting to East Asia as it is becoming increasingly clear that most of the white world is destroyed beyond repair and that there isn’t much more the elites actively need to do in most Western countries, demographics will eventually finish the job off by itself.

    The global elites have been ramping up the pressure for some time on Japan in particular to accept third world mass immigration as a “solution” to their declining population, I’m not sure they will get away with remaining homogeneous for much longer. Also, the way the Hong Kong rioters are beating up mainland Chinese, their own people basically, seems like the result of the same sort of propaganda that whites have been subjected to.

    • Replies: @JoannF
  48. JQ says:

    Like they say in french! Beaucoup de mots pour rien dire!

    Just pur gibberish, but we are all entitled to our own opinion,

    • Agree: Alden
  49. mp says:

    Hey Carly. Talk about the pot calling the kettle. Tell me, how did your innovative gig at HP work out for you?

    “I have been doing business with women for decades, and I will tell you that yeah, women can cry, be vindictive, let their emotions rule over them and others, and can flash their tits at men in order to get ahead, but what they can’t do is innovate.”

    There. Fixed the quote for you. LOL

  50. What appeared to be an interesting article turns the reader off with this unnecessary qualifier in the very first sentence:

    “Discrimination that is based on hate is morally wrong.”

    Discrimination is based upon preference. If I prefer to surround myself with people like me, it has nothing to do with hating other people who aren’t like me.

    The word discrimination has been transformed by the left into a word associated with all things negative. In fact the ability to objectively discriminate is a fundamental survival instinct of humans. The clearest example is how the leftist educational institutions have taught Westerners to unlearn this instinct, and the result is the impending death of the West itself by allowing itself to be overrun by groups of people who mean to destroy us.

    Non-discrimination is leading to more hate than anything else.

  51. JoannF says:

    Chandra is good at producing tongue-in-cheek click bait.

    He recently had the idea to, with unsound statistics, suggest that African kids are slightly smarter than Caucasian ones (which enabled their kind to build Wakanda without ever producing written language, a remarkable feat) – but he apparently forgot that this would still leave them in the wake of Asians.
    Damn. Not just Whites are the enemy, all smarter populations are !

    Now he’s remedying his lapse by suggesting that Asians mature faster but are on the whole somehow just average when adult, as racial differences in intelligence can not be allowed to exist.
    No personality is the magic key phrase, and that’s not racist !
    While Asians are of course rather bad at sports, having wider pelvises because their babies have the largest skull volumes, which however somehow still leaves them intellectually equal with Africans – who just run faster because their legs are straighter. No voodoo, no ableism in sports !

    We really need to make sure that, once the Whites have been replaced, Asians have no access to Western academe, which will thereby be vastly superior to all because it will be populated entirely by black, hopefully Muslim, geniuses. And their Chosen mentors, who obviously think that an average global IQ of 82 is still way too high.

    Gung Ho !

  52. iffen says:
    @Pincher Martin

    Because no one else will publish them.

    For good reasons, obviously.

  53. David says:
    @padre

    Who put paper, printing, gunpowder and compass to world-changing use?

    • Replies: @Biff
    , @anonymous
  54. JoannF says:
    @England patriot

    You are correct. Global IQ of 82 is obviously way too high, so evolution of the human species is being actively worked backward. Can’t have the Asians stand in the way of that !
    Distract the masses with 150 sexual flavors, then give them Sharia – they will only know that Allah is merciful, and look forward to the afterlife. This is the future.

    There will be no further vain primate-level discussions, while the Elites can start to intelligently breed their own children, and hopefully Mendel them towards something that – finally ! – merits the denomination “intelligent life form,” with maybe two hundred million of them living in relative bliss.

    But if they fail (and even if they don’t), there’s still exponentially growing self-programming AI to take the baton and carry on, at IQ levels where humans would be completely lost to even try and program them.
    This is the real chance I can see in all of this.
    I mean – we must get out of this mess, mustn’t we, where all we do is further the ends of entropy.

    So. What’s not to like ?

    • Replies: @Poupon Marx
  55. Rich says:

    Although I find myself disagreeing with just about all the author’s points, I want to address one in particular. The lack of Oriental professors has absolutely nothing to do with intelligence. Chinese and Koreans, with whom I’m most familiar, always choose the higher paying, more stable career path. Always. Anyone familiar with the present day low-pay, long-wait path to professorships knows that not taking that path is actually a sign of high intelligence.

  56. tamo says:
    @Pincher Martin

    All the ancient civilizations were pre-scientific. Science or modern science was born in the Islamic civilization in the 11th century with the birth of the EMPIRICAL SCIENTIFIC METHOD that Ibn al Hyham PIONEERED and later Europeans COPIED. Ibn al Haytham is considered by some scholars as the FIRST TRUE scientist in the world.

    Before the Industrial Revolution, very FEW ORIGINAL inventions and ideas came out of relatively backward Europe that had been heavily influenced by Chinese and Islamic inventions and ideas. According to Francis Bacon, the prominent British scientist and statesman in the 17th century, the most earth-shaking inventions in the human history up to that moment, were gunpowder, printing, compass. These were all Chinese inventions.

    According to Robert Temple, a well-respected scholar of Oriental Studies, more than half the inventions that laid the foundations for the modern world came out of China. The way things are going now, China has a good chance to become the technologically most advanced nation AGAIN by the middle of this century.

  57. @dvorak

    The parsimonious explanation for the bamboo ceiling is East Asian introversion, rather than the author’s explanation.

    One would expect introverted people to be more inventive than non-introverted people in those areas that require considerable study or bench work before invention becomes possible.

    Counterinsurgency

    • Replies: @Fair Assessment
  58. tamo says:
    @Chanda Chisala

    You have a very THIN SKIN. If you can not take the heat, then get out of the kitchen.

    • Replies: @Pheasant
  59. anonymous[191] • Disclaimer says:

    One thing that always perplexes me. Why don’t the east Asians create their own universities that are equal or better than Harvard or other Ivy Leaguers? Why do they fight so hard to get into a stinking compost heap of political correctness? The Chinese have the money, they could hire all the best professors and create a better university than Harvard if they really wanted to. The only thing I can think of is that they still have ingrained into their skulls that somehow the American university is better than anything they can create and there is some kind of prestige associated with it. They don’t seem to realize that the ivy league university and the USA is like an old, formerly rich man sitting in his rusty Rolls Royce without wheels in a field overgrown with weeds, still thinking he’s rich and relevant. The reality is that the world has moved on, the US is on its way out killed by self-hatred and political correctness.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @anonymous
  60. @Julian of Norwich

    There is perhaps an alternative explanation for the under representation of ‘East Asian’ people in higher level positions in industry and academia. It is that progression to these positions is less influenced by objective criteria of intellectual merit and more influenced by subjective criteria that reflect longstanding class and culturally based bias. It is perhaps the case that the further up the heirarchy one travels the less meritocratic it becomes.

    In a modern society sociopaths rise to the top of large organizations–so it sounds like there are less Asian sociopaths per capita than white ones.

    I will let the “experts” debate the genetic/environmental components of this. 😉

  61. nymom says:
    @Pincher Martin

    I myself have often wondered about this.

    How did such ancient civilizations such as the Chinese (and the Japanese as well) allow much younger civilizations from Europe (England and Portugal for example) to totally dominate them…

    It only lasted a short while in the span of things, but it was odd…

    • Replies: @tamo
  62. @Anonymous

    Him not her. Your attention level and conscientiousness may not be up to scratch but perhaps your IQ is up to explaining what is wrong with his speculative explanation for yhe apparent differences in merit between East Asians and Europeans.

  63. @Rich

    How does being a tenured academic compare in stability with being an executive in a random Nasdaq or New York Stock Exchange listed corporation?

    • Replies: @Rich
    , @anonymous
  64. @anonymous

    I wonder if there are any tests for curiosity and drive? And any publication of results divided by race?

    As far as I can tell, the Big Five theory [1] is state of the art in categorizing personality traits for H. Sapiens (informed comments on this would be welcomed). Curiosity comes under “Openness”, and drive would probably come under “Aggressiveness”. These categories are thought to be cross-cultural, and have been measured extensively world wide. Numerous tests are available on-line [2].

    However:
    Interpretation of these tests is a bit questionable. Take a look at what Strauhan has to say about men’s vs. women’s personalities as measured by the Big Five theory [3]. She makes a very good case that the accepted identity between men’s and women’s personalities under the Big Five theory is false to the data.
    Given this, I would not trust any cross-racial interpretation of Big Five data. The area is just tool sensitive politically.

    Counterinsurgency

    1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Five_personality_traits

    2] Search for “five factor personality test”

    3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBgcjtE0xrE

    • Replies: @anonymous
  65. @anonymous

    You can read on UR evidence or at least argument or opinion that China already has universities to match the Ivies. Indeed there are anecdotes about students seeking entry even to Oxbridgw to avoid the competition at home and one about a young person who gave up an offer from Cambridge in favour of Beijing U so that people wouldn’t suppose she was not up to the highest Chinese standards.

  66. @Julian of Norwich

    Only two cheers because you misstated his hypothesis as proposing a decline in intelligence when his speculation was rather that non East Asians took longer to mature their cognitive abilities fully while East Asian intellect stopped improving earlier.

    • Replies: @Julian of Norwich
  67. Maybe they should take up gangsta rap & street robbery to improve their ‘personality scores’.

    Straight Outta Shanghai

    • LOL: TKK
  68. @Tsigantes

    originality and creativity have no place in this production line nor in the jobs that follow.

    Quite true, and so the society continues to exploit the same resources until those resources are gone and the society dwindles back to subsistence or below. The Industrial Revolution was, in very large part, a switch from medieval resources to a different set of resources. Wood was replaced by coal (no an easy task), animal power by coal fired steam power, guilds of artisans by paupers turned into factory workers, priests and military engineers turned into university faculty.
    Those resources are being exploited somewhat past their limits just now. A new set is needed, and is being vigorously suppressed. As a result, we’re seeing the approach of a classic Kondratiev Winter [1] of exceptional severity.

    So, you’re right in a way, but it’s sort of like saying that you don’t have to worry about next week because you’ll be hanged tomorrow.

    Counterinsurgency

    1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kondratiev_wave
    The classic K wave involves mal-investment when newly discovered industrial/engineering techniques become commodities. A usual example is over-building railroads in Victorian England, but the iphone becoming a commodity might do about as well. The mal-investments don’t generate the revenue streams needed for their repayment, and the lost value leads to a cessation of investment and reduction in consumption — a “recession” as it is now called. The argument above uses the same kind of thinking, but applies it to raw resources rather than market saturation once the frontiers of innovation with current techniques have been reached.

  69. @Monotonous Languor

    The author’s suggestions are probably good ones. But they will not be implemented in our lifetimes.

    Ant1: “Do you think that “ant” will ever reach the stars?
    Ant2: “Yes, but not in our lifetimes”
    Anteater, approaching from behind: “You can say that again.”

    Counterinsurgency

    • LOL: baythoven
  70. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:

    It is purely anecdotal in the sense of not describing a scientific survey but I have heard from a distinguished academic at one of Harvard’s graduate schools that the Chinese students lack originality.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  71. lavoisier says: • Website
    @Mr. XYZ

    Indeed that is the strength of this site.

    And I thought this article was very interesting and provided a novel perspective.

    Why would anyone be so dismissive of this article?

    A question I have always wondered about is the correlation between intelligence and creativity.

    And how does one measure creativity beyond genuine creative accomplishment?

    I do not think any race has the birthright on creativity but certainly white Europeans have to be pretty high up there if one is to tabulate actual creative accomplishment.

    • Replies: @TTSSYF
  72. Pheasant [AKA "anonymous212"] says:
    @PaulM

    ‘The genetic differences between populations are marginal – and it is well-known that environmental impacts significantly decide on what genes are express or modified. So its not genes which explains the author’s prejudices. We know also that IQ scores are purely related to pieces of information acquired in a particular culture and absolutely nothing to do with ‘intelligence’ or ‘giftedness”- (whatever that is)’

    Dude youre on UNZ review. Stfu already.

  73. tamo says:
    @nymom

    The main reason China fell behind the West is that China missed out on the Industrial Revolution. Before the Industrial Revolution, China was ahead of Europe in TECHNOLOGY.

    In science, Europe overtook China in physics including astronomy and math in the 17th century but China was still ahead of Europe in chemistry and botany until the late 18th century. Also in case of medicine, China was ahead of Europe well into the 19th century.

    The way things are going now, I think there is a good chance that China will become the technologically most advanced nation AGAIN by 2040.

    I have bad news for the ignorant people like Carly Fiorina who WRONGLY believe America has been always original and creative.

    America is the granddaddy of industrial espionage and counterfeiting. When America was a developing country in the 19th and early 20th centuries, An America that lacked both creativity and originality, was the biggest thieving- copycat in the world. Consequently, the U.S. became the counterfeit capital of the world.

    America copied other countries’ inventions, ideas without regard to patents, copyright, trademarks. Even the U.S. Treasury Department under Alexander Hamilton set up a bounty system for rewarding anybody for stealing and bringing foreign technologies to America. As a matter of fact, the 19th century American textile industry was basically based on stolen British technologies.

    Also Americans were infamous for illegally copying Charles Dickens’ novels or manufacturing inferior hats in New York and then slapping made-in Paris labels on them and had a very bad reputation for making unsafe and gross food products (For example, American meat packers used extremely harmful TB -infected pork to make sausages). You can find all this information and more by reading Aug 26, 2007 Boston Globe article named A NATION OF OUTLAWS A CENTURY AGO, THAT WASN’T CHINA—– IT WAS US and also a Dec 5, 2012 Foreign Policy article titled WE WERE PIRATES, TOO.

    Every developed country went through copying stage before it became innovative. Germans copied from British. Americans stole and copied from Europe (Even in the early 20th century, American car makers were busy reverse-engineering more advanced European cars) and Japan stole and copied from both Europe and America.
    Also before the Industrial Revolution the technologically backward Europeans directly or indirectly copied a lot of things from China and Islamic civilization.

  74. Pheasant [AKA "anonymous212"] says:
    @tamo

    ‘You have a very THIN SKIN’

    They all do. Its almost like they have something to hide.

    Having said that this article though illogical is far from his worst.

    • Agree: tamo
  75. PeterMX says:

    I think Carly Fiorina’s statement is completely wrong. Asians are not only great engineers, they can innovate, discover and invent. I think the reason Carly Fiorina and many or most Americans think that way is because Americans have a way overblown opinion of themselves. Thanks to the blessing of two oceans and thousands of miles separating them from the fighting, the US was completely undamaged during WW II (even Hawaii, it was not a state in 1941) while much of Europe was decimated and other parts (Great Britain) were financially bankrupt. Since then, Americans have been told throughout their lives that the USA is the greatest country that has ever existed and I think most Americans think the US has been the most innovative country since before WW I already. It hasn’t been. I believe the only other country that came out of WW II with such an abundance of confidence and pride was the USSR, but they lost millions of soldiers and much of their country was destroyed during the war, indicating the sacrifices made.

    But very few Americans (or any other nationality, possibly including younger Germans) are aware that Americans had few Nobel Prizes thru 1945 and that Germany had more Nobel Prizes than the US and Great Britain combined up until 1931, and thru 1945 and a few years afterwards, Germany had far more Nobel prizes than any other country in the world. Germany was the most innovative country in the sciences and engineering. Being a country with few natural resources, they were forced to continuously come up with technical and scientific solutions to problems as a result of few natural resources. The US did beat Germany to the atomic bomb, with virtually every one of the leading scientists (many being Jewish) having received their PHD’s (including the American Robert Oppenheimer) from a German university. The German team of Nobel Prize winners did not make a serious effort at building a bomb for several reasons, but it was one of their scientists (Otto Hahn) that made the world aware of the possibility of the bomb by discovering nuclear fission in 1938. This is what prompted the Manhattan Project and perhaps he made a mistake by sharing his discovery with the world prior to the beginning of the war.

    After WW II Germany, Great Britain, France and the rest of Europe never recovered their leadership position in science, industry or anything else and the US got a further boost when it beat the USSR to the moon. And when someone lets it slip out that German engineers put the US on the moon, the news outlet that discussed this is forced to apologize as happened just two months ago.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/media/453381-dc-news-outlet-pulls-feature-crediting-nazi-rocket-scientist-for-apollo-11

    It was the British that declared war on Germany first and then bombed and deliberately targeted German civilians immediately after the war started while the Germans continuously offered Britain peace and even an alliance, but when the Germans fight back von Braun is a “NAZI”.

  76. Altai says:

    I looked at the department most likely to favor Asian numbers due to their strengths in quantitative fields, the Department of Physics, Mathematics and Astronomy. I counted only about 8 East Asians out of 74 professors. At 10.8 %, this is still high for a group that is only 5 % of the American population, but it is nowhere near its 43% Caltech student population or its unbelievable 74% at Stuyvesant and other gifted schools.

    Whatever else about the other arguments, this is a poor metric. East Asians as a group in the US have quite shallow roots overall. Their absolute population proportion would not be expected to at all match that of Caltech professors. One would have to account for the age demographics of East Asians in the US and Caltech professors along with the proportions of those in the correct age demographic who have the right professional or educational backgrounds. All East Asian PhDs of the right age range in those fields would be the number you’d want to compare.

    • Agree: Aft
  77. JQ says:

    All the sources and interpretations of M. Chandara have been questioned already

    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/chanda-chisala-african-hereditarian/

    I guess (sorry to be mean) M. Chandara never watched or listen to pastor Maning sermons,
    it’s a pill too hard to swallow

  78. Pheasant [AKA "anonymous212"] says:
    @tamo

    ‘Science or modern science was born in the Islamic civilization in the 11th century with the birth of the EMPIRICAL SCIENTIFIC METHOD that Ibn al Hyham PIONEERED and later Europeans COPIED.’

    Islam conquered societies that preserved ancient Greek knowledge. At first the native peoples did not convert but as taxation became onerous they did so. As these places became more islamicised science died out.

    The meme about Islamic science was invented in 19th century Germany by resentful quasi-assimilated Jews who used to pretend Islam had some kind of ‘golden age’ that they could look back to to indulge thier resentment against thier German hosts.

    • Replies: @tamo
    , @Fair Assessment
  79. Vox Ratio says:

    I think it’s highly likely that some people’s brains just work better than others. (My own brain worked a lot better when I was in my 30s….)

  80. Rich says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    A tenured professorship is a secure, usually decent paying position. The path to that job, however, is long and low paying without the proper connections. At least in the US.

    The pay for being a “random Nasdaq or NYSE executive ” is astronomical. Those guys are making serious cash. The kind that can give you enough to open several restaurants and cleaners in a couple years.

  81. @Rich

    That links in with the perceived lack of creativity of East Asians. To them honour is about having the highest paying and most “respectable” job they can get.

    In Anglo culture at least, people are more encouraged to embark on careers that genuinely interest them and not worry so much about salaries and prestige specifically. In fact I would say in Anglo culture it is considered dishonourable to be a money-obsessed corporate drone at the expense of what you really want to do. In Anglo culture someone who rejects the corporate life to go and live “off grid” is considered a lot more worthy of respect than the people who just continue to be corporate drones all their life, I doubt that is the case in East Asian cultures though.

    • Agree: Rich
  82. tamo says:
    @Pheasant

    There was NO SCIENCE in the ANCIENT WORLD,period, because no civilization used the EMPIRICAL SCIENTIFIC METHOD that has about 5 crucial steps ; observation, making a hypothesis, lengthy strictly- controlled experimentation with repeatable results, analyzing and quantifying the results by using mathematics, conclusion ( either proving or disproving the hypothesis).

    The ancient Greeks were only good at hypothesizing after relatively casual observation. But they NEVER ENGAGED IN LENGTHY STRICTLY CONTROLLED EXPERIMENTATION WHOSE RESULTS MUST BE REPRODUCED ALL THE TIME.

    Greeks used syllogism which used assumptions to prove a hypothesis. The Aristotelian syllogism dominated Western PSEUDO scientific thoughts for many centuries. Syllogism itself is about how to get valid conclusion from assumptions WITHOUT VERIFYING the assumptions first ( very unscientific to say the least). So Greeks and PRE-RENAISSANCE Europeans over time focused mainly on the logic part and forgot the importance of verifying the assumptions.

    That’s where Ibn al Haytham, called THE FIRST TRUE SCIENTIST in the world by some scholars, came in and invented the EMPIRICAL SCIENTIFIC METHOD that heavily emphasized lengthy controlled repeatable experimentation that Greeks NEVER DID.

    According to such scholars as James Ackerman, Mathias Schramm, Rosana Gorini, Jim Al-Khalili, Ibn al Haytham formulated the EMPIRICAL SCIENTIFIC METHOD about 5 centuries before such European scientistsas Francis Bacon.
    Also John M.Hobson, the author of The Eastern Origins of Western Civilization states that early Islamic thinking had a tremendous impact that went well beyond the European Renaissance, and helped bring about European scientific revolution.

    Bacon’s idea that science should be based on experimentation and the maximum benefit could be had from the division of labor was almost WORD FOR WORD THE SAME ARGUMENT MADE BY THE EARLIER ISLAMIC SCHOLARS.

    Only biased Eurocentric people ( among them are some non – westerners) question Ibn al Haytham’s monumental achievements. Without Ibn al Haytham’s formulating the experimental scientific method first, there would have been no scientific revolution in Europe in the 17th century or the modern science developing in Europe in the 18th and 19th centuries.

    Robert Briffault, a famous social anthropologist in the early 20th century said trying to give the credit of inventing the EMPIRICAL scientific method to European scientists who came many centuries after Ibn al Haytham is the COLOSSAL Eurocentric misrepresentation of the origin of the empirical scientific method.
    I fully agree with him. Nobody denies the West dominated science from the 17th century and technology from the late 18th century on.

    But things are going to change in this century. By the middle of this century, there is a good chance that China will be the science and technology superpower.

    • Replies: @Poco
  83. @tamo

    All true but it makes it all the more interesting that the great Joseph Chamberlain, imperialist and social reformer, made his fortune from vigorous exploitation of the rights he held to an American invention for making screws which put all the old screwmaking craftsmen out of business.

  84. TKK says:
    @Chanda Chisala

    Haha!

    You put your work in the public square and then expect to be cuddled and cooed over with gentleness?

    There is no affirmative action here. Your article openly calls for discrimination against a group that out performs blacks in every measure academically and culturally. On the rice paper thin thesis: Good test takers are not valuable to society?

    Its a solid enough weeding out process. If the majority of American blacks were admitted and evaluated on non curved scores alone, most would only meet community college standards that have rolling admissions, and that would be the pinnacle of their academic lives.

    Meritocracy is the only sane and just path.

  85. @JoannF

    The only solution, and the window will not be open for much longer, is for Whites, Indo-Europeans to create their own self-governing ethno states. Divide the JewSA into 3 republics: White, Brown, and Black. Within a hundred years, B & B will be bankrupt.

    I have written on this extensively in a focused and very detailed series of comments here and other, e.g., American Renaissance and The Occidental Observer.

    • Replies: @JoannF
  86. Wally says:
    @Chanda Chisala

    You are projecting.

    Your silliness has no chance in debate, as we see here.

  87. John M says:

    The author of this article is just jealous.

    The Chinese gave the world the gunpowder (so you can kill each other) and the compass (so you can sail the oceans and rob other people of their lands). They also invent other things … like the printing press (Gutenburg was much later) and paper money (so you can fool all the people all the time) … and maybe last but not least … noodles (also known as spaghetti :))

    BTW, the world is witnessing the decline and slow death of western civilization and a new benevolent ascendancy is emerging.

    • Replies: @neir
    , @Poco
  88. Wally says:
    @dvorak

    said:
    “Taking Nobel prize winners as evidence of creativity, Ashkenazi Jews would seem to have something special going on. ”

    Indeed, there is something going on, it’s called ‘politics’, fake ‘guilt’, and coercion.

    So many Jew Nobel winners were post WWII, after the ridiculous “Holocaust” propaganda did it’s job.

  89. Fascinating piece. It is easy to see why the Unz Review is getting a lot of traffic.

    The Chinese do indeed seem to invent little that is wholly new, but to be quite good at engineering–quantum crypto, Ascend 910, moon landers, 5-G, etc. A friend who teaches university English in Chengdu says that if he tells his students something absurd, such as that in 1897 the Nazis conquered Tokyo, the students will stare blankly and say nothing. They know perfectly well it is nonsense, but one doesn’t challenge authority. Engineering doesn’t challenge authority, innovation can. Just a thought.

    • Replies: @tamo
  90. GMC says:

    The problem doesn’t lie with the Chinese students, the problem is with the American Institutions, that have become flawed, mismanaged and bought off. How many graduates and those with a masters or PHD have come up with plans to get the USA , back on tract as a decent well centered Super Power? None ! They all go the other way, and Go with the NWO Government Flow or the Globalist network. When they and the politicians , think about the economic future – they are thinking of ” Their” economic future – Not the Country’s. The Party’s over because of all the Greed. Thanks Unz Rev.

  91. I cannot read through all the comments, but, please, don´t get discouraged, as a matter of fact, I would say, you would rate high on creativity…good luck

  92. j1234 says:

    In this article, I will argue that young East Asians develop their cognitive abilities faster than the young of every other population and thus reach their full mental capacity much earlier than everyone else. In adulthood, many other people from other groups — in this analysis I will particularly focus on white Americans since there are other complex issues with Blacks and Hispanics….

    Yes, it’s recently been discovered that blacks are at their smartest ten years after they die.

    • Replies: @tamo
    , @Anonymous
  93. d dan says:
    @Tim Stevens

    “I care about sending them home.”

    Asians have as much right to call this nation, or this continent, their home, as the white people.

    If you want to send them back to Asia, then be prepared for the native Americans to send all white people back to Europe.

    At least most of the Asians come to this country legally, at the invitation of some white employers or colleges. Tell me how many of the white people’s ancestors were invited by the native Americans to build the country called US or Canada? None?

  94. @Wizard of Oz

    A fair point. In truth, I am not really sure what the hypothesis is, since both explanations appear to be posed as possibilities, or so it seemed to me.

  95. MarkinLA says:
    @tamo

    According to Francis Bacon, the prominent British scientist and statesman in the 17th century, the most earth-shaking inventions in the human history up to that moment, were gunpowder, printing, compass.

    The Vikings and Polynesians seemed to do quite well without the compass. Whern dealing with slow sailing vessels and as yet undiscovered differences between true north and magnetic north and ocean and wind durrents, the compass by itself isn’t as useful as you think. It only indicates a heading and cannot tell you where you are so as to correct for all the errors accumulating.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_navigation

    Probably the most important invention that was the basis of the modern world is mathematics. According to the list of the 100 greatest mathematicians of all time, China has very few on the list.

    • Replies: @tamo
  96. tamo says:
    @Fred V. Reed

    Historically Chinese have been very creative and inventive. According to Robert Temple, a well-respected scholar of the oriental studies, more than half of the inventions that laid the foundations for the modern world before the Industrial Revolution, came from China.

    Before the Industrial Revolution, Europe was BASICALLY adaptive and copying culture. Europe copied a lot of inventions and ideas from China and the Islamic civilization before the Industrial Revolution. China fell behind Europe because it missed out on the Industrial Revolution.

    By looking at the things are going on now, I think China has a good chance to become the technological superpower AGAIN by 2040. For your information, when America was a developing country that lacked creativity and originality, America stole and copied a lot technologies from other countries. For example, the 19th century American textile industry was BASICALLY based on stolen British technology. Also before the Industrial Revolution, Europe copied a lot of technologies and ideas from China and the Islamic civilization. Every developed country went through copying stages when it was a developing country. America and Europe were no exception to this rule. Please read my comment #74 and others.

  97. @Tim Stevens

    You do realize you are the same as Henry yu?

    Your hate created him.

    Yes, you.

  98. East Asians should be discriminated against because the purpose of American elite institutions should be to further the interests of the American nation, not foreign nations or of minority nations who reside within the American nation’s territory.

  99. Yellow dogs follow and serve the Power. That power is Jewish Supremacist and Globo-Homo in the West. Yellow dogs will go to elite schools and come out as converts and evangelists of globo-homo-shlomo agenda.

    Hell with them.

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Fair Assessment
  100. MarkinLA says:

    The main difference is the nerd factor or you might say the hot rodder factor. Why do all the hot rodding shows consist of mainly white people? Why do white people seem to get much more obsessive about some topic they are interested in? Asians are largely practical and won’t waste endless amounts of time on something that won’t make get them ahead or just produces something margibally better.

    I have seen this as a programmer. Asians will turn something in that works but is absolutely an embarrassment to anybody who thinks himself a good programmer. They won’t care as long as the manager is happy, and why wouldn’t he be, the schedule was met. Some white guys will obsess endlessly about how they can make it faster, take less space, or be a more elegant solution.

    • Replies: @Donald A Thomson
  101. @d dan

    The United States of America is obviously borne out of European settlers. Therefore obviously “native Americans” have no right to force European settlers to leave, but rather the other way round. If the USA was instead the Cherokee nation, then Cherokees would have the ability to remove white Europeans within their borders, presumably. You seem very confused.

  102. Malla says:

    In this article, I will argue that young East Asians develop their cognitive abilities faster than the young of every other population and thus reach their full mental capacity much earlier than everyone else.

    East Asians mature slower than other populations. I do not know if there is a direct correlation in between IQ and maturity but what you claim does not seem right.
    Indeed girls out perform boys in school on average because they mature faster but their maturity process stops short of the whole and males though mature slower, we mature MORE. And thus men tend to outperform women on average in STEM subjects in universities.
    Women reach A to R (alphabets) faster than boys but stop at R while we guys reach R slowly but continue all the way to Z.

    East Asians are thus as a race mentally more MALE, Europeans are in between while blacks who mature the fastest are more FEMALE.

    If these children are scoring as high as 120 on average at the age of four (despite being hospitalized for malnourishment) and 110 to 112 at the age of ten, it is implausible that their IQ goes up as they grow older, and neither is it likely that it stays the same. If we accept that Asian adult IQ is 104 to 106 as Rushton and others suggest, then even by their own data, it is more likely than not that Asian IQ goes downwards as they grow older.

    This is an interesting point. But one needs to do some long term research on this phenomenon to come to definite conclusions. A lifelong program of IQ tests at regular intervals of age.

    Most executive positions in the corporate world come at even older ages.

    Thus, although Asians are 12 percent of American professionals, they are only 5% percent of the executives.

    Corporate Executive positions not only need IQ but also a lot of extrovert, alpha male, verbal, mafioso like skills that East Asians may lack as compared to other races. Indeed a study by Yale University found out that Corporate executives have similar traits as mafiosos.

  103. Coming from an ethnic Indian, this piece smacks of sour grapes.

    Investor Jim Rogers said in his book Adventure Capitalist that Indians think they are the best race on earth, a conviction bolstered by the success of their IT industry, and that they are very jealous of the Chinese.

    The success of China puts India to shame, and destroys the narrative of those who claim nations need freedom and democracy to succeed.

    This writer rails on the East Asians for only knowing how to copy, well, at least they know how to copy, and improve upon what they copy, the Indians can’t even copy properly! The entire Indian IT industry survives off outsourcing work from the US, i.e. they are code monkeys who code whatever they are told to code. Even after 2 decades, these people cannot innovate. There are no homegrown champions coming out of India. And the best companies in SV are not started by Indians. They are only good as managers or CEOs because they are the chest thumping Bullshit Artists of the East, totally shameless liars like the Jews. The reason many Indians are included as startup “founders” in companies is because the real founders wanted to take advantage of the minority owner affirmative action.

    As for the East Asians not being able to innovate, the Chinese gave the world gunpowder, compass, printing press, porcelain, paper, silk, what did we get from the Indians that are of real significance again? A big fat zero.

  104. Attila says:
    @Miro23

    Trust me the place is a total shambolic mess run by total know nothings. By the way I live there.

  105. @Tim Stevens

    Exactly. The Chinese will have to go back and start their own “Harvard.”

  106. I love the foundational premise that Harvard is a fount of higher learning and not a CIA-pozzed indoctrination center. Is this 1923?

    • Agree: GMC
  107. @d dan

    The Indians lost. Get over it.

  108. @Wizard of Oz

    Woah, you actually know this.

    So many retards here doesn’t even understand the basics and start mouthing off and give their fantasized, racially tinted conclusions.

    For the last 10 years or so, majority of the overseas Chinese students are the ones who couldn’t make it into a top Chinese uni. In China, they even have a term for these students, “sea returners”. They were coveted in the 90s and early 00s. They are pretty much the same as every other graduate in China now. I would personally bet on them being relegated as trash who couldn’t make it in china soon.

    • Replies: @d dan
    , @anonymous
  109. Andy says:

    actually, the whole “East Asians are uncreative” thing is a bit of a myth. Yes, there were about 500 years (1500 to 2000, say) where Westerners were at the forefront of scientific innovation. Yet if you move out of that timeline, Asians were behind most of scientific breakthroughs of the time (paper, printing press, paper money, gunpowder, etc). And I would say if anything Asia is a much more dynamic place today than the west.

    • Replies: @Biff
    , @Peter Frost
  110. @tamo

    2025 plan.

    If the Chinese can’t innovate, why in the bloody hell are we, the USA waging an economic war trying to stop it?

    Logic mother fuckas, so many retards(this doesn’t include you 👍) in the comments section, including the author.

    • Replies: @Fair Assessment
    , @Pheasant
  111. @d dan

    You fell into the trap of arguing against stupid points. USA is a nation of immigrants, no one has the right to send any legal immigrants to any where.

    His screaming bitch ass is a descendant of an immigrant too.

    The only racial group who can claim that right are the native indians. But shit, they have been a conquered and near extinct people for almost 250 years.

    • Agree: d dan
  112. @Miro23

    Also, what was the independence fight about in Northern Rhodesia? The British administration was quite good and a lot less corrupt than what became Zambia.

    I think you mean Zimbabwe.

    • Replies: @Malla
  113. anonymous[250] • Disclaimer says:
    @Counterinsurgency

    While achievement motivation could be put under the umbrella of “aggressiveness” if there are only 5 available categories to choose from, it’s too different from other more traditional variations of aggressiveness to be grouped together with them and used as a coherent idea for explaining successful accomplishments.

    • Replies: @Counterinsurgency
  114. @Polymath

    It’s not that East Asian kids naturally develop faster. It’s that they develop as fast as they can, because of cultural factors. Effort and training accelerate learning and cognitive development much more than they improve the final level attained.

    Like I said, this is unlikely because even very small children adopted by white families score higher than whites. Even higher than the biological children of the same families, with no exposure to “Asian culture.”

  115. CanSpeccy says: • Website

    Who the Hell cares who goes to Harvard?

    If you can’t succeed in life without going to some ridiculously expensive private school, what use are you?

    I think Harvard should accept only Asians with IQ’s over 160, thereby saving everyone else the expense of going there.

    The important point this article makes is that children vary greatly in rate of development. When I was thirteen, the kid who was top of my class was already shaving, something I had no need to do for years. On graduation, the early shaver won a third-class degree, I received the faculty prize.

    Not saying that sexual maturation is exactly correlated with mental development, but if I were studying the question of inter-group differences in mental development, I’d certainly look at such markers of physiological development as possible indicators of mental development.

    • Replies: @TKK
  116. MarkinLA says:
    @tamo

    Also before the Industrial Revolution, Europe copied a lot of technologies and ideas from China and the Islamic civilization.

    You timelines are off. The Industrial Revolution started in the early 1800s. Europe by then had already developed calculus and other advanced fields of study. Once the Renaissance happened China was quickly left behind.

    But I would be interested in knowing all those things the Europeans copied in the 1700s.

    • Replies: @tamo
  117. @Bullshit Artists of the East

    Coming from an ethnic Indian, this piece smacks of sour grapes.

    Oh! How did you “know” that I’m “ethnic Indian”? 🙂

  118. @S. M. Coulton

    This article confuses age-adjusted IQ with adult IQ. IQ is weighted by age. Those adopted Korean Belgian children would have had an adult IQ of 90-100.

    Wrong.

  119. d dan says:

    An interesting and revealing article, but it contains several fallacious claims and arguments. I would just point out the following:

    1. The author fails to prove that Asians mature earlier than white people. He cites figures like Asians’ rates in selective high schools vs selective colleges, or selective professions. This is not a direct proof. There are plenty of counter arguments or interpretations to his desired conclusion, e.g. Asians are more likely to lose interests of their childhood’s focus, or Asians are more likely to change profession when they grow up.

    2. The author claims that Asians are less innovative, but only manages to put up with very flimsy arguments. He cites Chinese government’s “claim” (LOL), or conflates various concepts of high performances, e.g. equating being an executive as more innovative than being a professional.

    Innovative capability is a very fluid concept (e.g. it is hard to define, hard to measure, hard to predict, hard to generalize, hard to agree upon…) that I would suggest readers be humble from jumping to conclusions. If anything, looking through the long history would be more illuminating than the ad hoc argument and circumstantial anecdotes cited by this author. Here, the evidences are overwhelming: Chinese civilization was the most innovative one in human history. Is there a reason that they suddenly become not so innovative in the last 100 years?

  120. d dan says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    I am impressed by @Wizard of Oz too.

    People in the west are typically so ignorant of China, they don’t even know basic fact like: it is harder to get into Peking U. than to get into Harvard.

    • LOL: eah
    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    , @Alden
    , @eah
  121. Biff says:
    @David

    Who put paper, printing, gunpowder and compass to world-changing use?

    Uh, the people who invented them?

    • Replies: @David
  122. PhdJKL says:

    Data that could have helped this article:
    Asians outscore Non-Hispanic Whites on SATs
    http://www.lagriffedulion.f2s.com/testing.htm#APPENDIX%20B

    Asians equal scores of Non-Hispanic Whites on LSATs (Law school admissions): 152.1 vs. 152.7 Mean scores by race for 2005-2006 https://isteve.blogspot.com/2009/03/lsat-and-iq.html

    If someone else could provide GRE (graduate school admission test) and MCAT (medical school admission test) scores by race, then we could resolve WITH DATA whether Asian scores become closer to Whites at ages 20-24 as suggested by the LSAT scores reported on by Steve Sailer.

    • Replies: @res
  123. Biff says:
    @Andy

    And I would say if anything Asia is a much more dynamic place today than the west.

    This I agree with.

  124. Mj says:

    Let’s revise the quote at the beginning. Imagine a white woman saying something along this line: “I have been doing business in Africa for decades, and I will tell you that yeah, the Africans can take a handout, but what they can’t do is feed themselves.” It is curious: whites (boomers especially) feel free to criticize East Asians. But Blacks, other races? Perish the thought!!!

    The Current Western View of East Asia as of 9. 17.19:

    Japan: they should flood their nation with the third world because the Nikkei fell 0.0001%. Because The economist magazine.

    Korea: What? You think Korean women are beautiful and stylish? Silly western man… They just wanna look like white girls!!! It’s all plastic surgery!!! Waaa!!!
    ***if they wanted to look like white girls, they’d live at McDonald’s and fry their skin on a tanning bed. But, I digress.

    China: can’t innovate, can’t create. Proof: Human Accomplishment by Charles Murray.. Q.E.D!!!

    Maybe the reality is this: China rises, America decays, a genuine new world order emerges. Used to be only blue collar whites (like my dad) had to worry about a rising China. No one gave a shit about blue collar white men when they were losing their jobs. No one cared about their troubles. Now things have changed. Now, white yuppies (and their kids) are feeing the heat. Screw them.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  125. @Nik

    Ah yes, the old saw that accuses someone of being ignorant of a country’s history. Yep, that’s a sign of a formidable mind.

  126. @Realist

    Dump a mountain of KFC’s best on some island in the Caribbean and let them swim there. If that doesn’t work, continue Marcus Garvey’s project.

    • Replies: @Realist
  127. @Nodwink

    Right, so I’m to be murdered because I recommend Asians go back to Asia. Makes perfect sense. Hey ye light of all reason, why aren’t whites allowed a country?

  128. @Colin Wright

    So you would know what people like him think.

    Perspectives are great things to have.

    He is the black vs the whites, and apparently smart minority kids too :p. Just using the same tools to fight back. In this at least, he is smarter than most blacks.

  129. zogborg [AKA "fuck society"] says:

    Wow, an African primate of all people saying Asians are intellectually inferior. Things like this remind me over and over that Africans need to be drastically reduced in number if the world is to not become even more retarded and fucked up than it is already.

  130. @d dan

    “Asians have as much right to call this nation, or this continent, their home, as the white people.”

    There is nothing categorical, divine, etc about statements like this. They aren’t lodged in any great axioms that explain the world from a higher, principled standpoint. It’s easily demystified. I’d have to look at you in person to wager a guess as to what inspires it.

    Of course, I’ll just do the flowchart here: If you’re Asian, then I’d know in a split second what inspired this declaration. If you’re white, then I’d say whites are the only ones who think like this and that egalitarianism is a unique Anglo-Saxon biological impulse that evolved for survival but was exploited by Jewish intellectuals and leaders against them by controlling their culture.

    My declaration, rooted in actual biological premises is that Asians and all other non-whites must be MOSTLY removed to prevent destruction of the white gene pool (and the Asian gene pool too for that matter as it will brain drain China). You need barriers for survival. Take a random example: where are the Puritans today? They’re gone, because the British government allowed others to start pouring into New England and within a few decades that gene pool and its culture vanished. Sure, they were other whites, so it was less important, but nonetheless, they disappeared as a ethnic group.

    • Replies: @Counterinsurgency
  131. MarkinLA says:
    @d dan

    Define “harder to get into”. I imagine everybody in China wants to go to Bejing U and is applying there. However, most Americans don’t even bother to apply to Harvard. The Chinese and Indians are well known cheaters so their stellar SAT scores that land them in Harvard might mean nothing in China where different exams are used and the cheating is probably better policed as compared to an exam used to get you into a foreign university.

    Universities are not ranked by how hard it is to get into as an undergraduate anyway. They are ranked by what their research has produced.

    Chinese universities may become world leaders or they may not. Here we are 30 years after everybody thought Japan was going to be the center of the technolgical world and it still isn’t even though there are internationally well respected Japanese universities.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  132. “A similar idea should be used in the gifted education system at every level, to ferret out the independent creatives from among those with relatively high test scores: if your creativity does not align with your high academic score, you should be automatically disqualified”.

    I think there is no valid method to test “independent thinking” or “creativity”.

    • Agree: MarkinLA
    • Replies: @Counterinsurgency
  133. Malla says:
    @Bullshit Artists of the East

    Maybe the name ‘Chanda’ fooled you into thinking the author is Asian Indian. But the surname ‘Chisala’ sounds very African. The author is most likely a black guy from Africa. I wonder, which country?

  134. @Mj

    These are all smoke screens. Automation will get rid of jobs, blue and white collar. Most manufacturing job losses in the USA were due to automation improvements. Now it is the turn of repetitive office jobs. Along with driving, answering phones, front desk types. Mcdonalds has been trialing peopleless ordering screens for a while now.

    Be prepare.

    Oh, don’t give up your guns.

    • Replies: @The Wobbly Guy
  135. Malla says:
    @foolisholdman

    Norther Rhodesia became Zambia and Southern Rhodesia (and later only Rhodesia) became Zimbabwe.

  136. Malla says:
    @Bullshit Artists of the East

    what did we get from the Indians that are of real significance again

    What about yoga? And Hindu Godmen full of wisdom?

    • Replies: @Franklin Ryckaert
  137. Bruno says:

    If’some people doubt racism against black people exists, the comments here tend to establish it. I have read much wilder claims. Less substantiated argumenets. Less documented references. And they didn’t get that « you are stupid » comments.

    I love imaginative and creative people like you. Sarcasm is cheap . Commenters treat you as they are treated themselves by liberals, so there is no point to take offense ….

    Hope you ll publish more here !

  138. tamo says:
    @MarkinLA

    I guess then the medieval non-Viking Europeans were dumber than Vikings or non-white Polynesians because they used the compass extensively for their voyages of discovery. I’m sure if non-Viking Europeans thought the compass was not important in their navigation, they wouldn’t have used it. But fact is they did.

    When it came to mathematics Chinese were way ahead of Europeans. In the 14th century BC, China already used the POSITIONAL decimal (not just a decimal) system, Europe didn’t have the POSITIONAL decimal system until the 10th century AD.

    Also in around the 14th century BC, China had the most advanced numeral system in the world that was called the counting rod number system which some scholars think the precursor of the Hindu-Arabic Numerals

    Ancient Chinese had highly-developed algebra while Greeks couldn’t develop one because the primitive Greek number systems were based on their alphabet. It was not until the 3rd century AD, Greeks started BARELY developing algebra.

    On the other hand, Greeks developed geometry that they had imported from Babylonia, to a high degree. China also developed geometry using algebra . The Chinese development of algebraic geometry is essential to the modern engineering.

    The concept of ZERO was known in China in the 4th century BC before in any other civilization. Europe finally got the idea of ZERO only in the 10th century AD.

    The NEGATIVE NUMBERS were invented in China in 2nd century BC.
    Although the Greek mathematician Diophantus ran into the negative numbers in the 3rd century AD, he discarded them because he thought the negative numbers were ABSURD. So it was not until the 16th century AD that Europeans finally accepted the negative numbers.

    Chinese also solved the Pythagorean Theorem in around the 11th century BC. long before ancient Greeks did. Also Chinese developed DECIMAL FRACTIONS in the 1st century BC. On the other hand, Europe couldn’t develop the decimal fractions until the 16th century AD. China developed so-called PASCAL’S TRIANGLE in the 11th century AD about 600 years before Pascal did in Europe. Also Chinese developed binary numbers too. These are some of the great Chinese contribution to mathematics.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    , @MarkinLA
    , @Malla
  139. Malla says:
    @tamo

    Before the Industrial Revolution, very FEW ORIGINAL inventions and ideas came out of relatively backward Europe

    Medieval Europe was not more backward than Medieval Arabia.

    This is the Lincoln Cathedral in Lincoln, England. Building commenced in 1072 A.D. and continued in several phases throughout the medieval period. It was the tallest building in the world for 238 years (1311–1549). It was the first building in the world which was built taller than the Great Pyramid of Giza, indeed taller than any building in China, Japan, Siam, India, Damascus, Meso America etc.. at its time. But even then it was not the largest cathedral in England, York Cathedral was even larger.
    One would need wealth, man power and expertise to build something like that.

    • Replies: @tamo
  140. @MarkinLA

    Here I must defend Japan, if it didn’t have a master, it would have soar waaaay higher.

    China doesn’t. But it does have enemies. It has to contend with economic wars.

    Let’s see what happens in 2025, if the Chinese plans succeeds or not.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    , @Wizard of Oz
  141. Formal education rewards obedience, so Asians do better than whites and girls do better than boys.

    The most test-based meritocratic university in America is arguably the California Institute of Technology (Caltech) in Pasadena, California. It also happens to have one of the highest populations of East Asians at 43 %

    Caltech is 43% Asian — that includes all Asians not just East Asians.

    But the school, named in honor of the most verbally gifted American founding father, is 74% Asian in its class of 2018-2019! (This is particularly astonishing when you consider that this is in one of the top states for white IQ in the whole country!)

    One of the reasons for the increased percentage of Asians at TJHSST is that fewer whites are applying for admission. The classes of 2008 to 2015 had roughly 1300 white applicants a year, but the class of 2016 had 1239, 1078 for the class of 2017, 944 for the class of 2018, 843 for the class of 2019, and 763 for the class of 2021.

    Not only has the number of Asians applying to TJHSST increased from 852 for the class of 2008, to 1593 for the class of 2021, but Asian applicants have gotten stronger over the years and are far more likely to be admitted than white applicants. The increased strength of Asian applicants may be due to purposeful immigration – Asians coming to American solely for their child to attend TJHSST. Supposedly there is a high rise apartment building near the school filled with Koreans.

    http://www.fcag.org/tjstatistics.shtml

    • Replies: @Chanda Chisala
  142. TKK says:
    @CanSpeccy

    Who the Hell cares who goes to Harvard?

    The gatekeepers to the corridors of power and the corporate goodie train care immensely.

    When I did some contract work for the only “Ivy League” in the South, I was both astounded and envious of the offers and relo packages extended to the graduates of Harvard, Yale and Berkley et al.

    I specifically remember earnest productive emails to find a male recruit’s husband (yep) employment. And not waiting table- prestigious, life changing positions were offered up w/o vetting just to please their new hire so his hubby could bring in more easy income.

    Getting in those school is their vetting. You are golden once you get that acceptance letter. The author knows this and is lobbying to place a thumb on the scale- as if there weren’t enough toxic diversity gas lighting in academia.

    Note: I was not rehired despite good work and pulling some all nighters to meet deadlines because I refused to stop deleting the PRONOUN TRIGGER WARNING at the bottom of University emails. Perhaps I should have eaten that sh*t sandwich and kept the work.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  143. skeptic23 says:
    @padre

    In a 200-300 year period the ancient Greeks produced more scientific, mathematical and philosophical breakthroughs than 5000 years of East Asian culture-and then there is the literature! The same could be said of 19th-20th century Germany, Renaissance Italy, 18th-19th century England or France. QED.

  144. MarkinLA says:
    @tamo

    These are not “great” contributions. A numerical representation is not what mathematics is about. Although it can help. Archemidies supposedly developed his own radix numbering system (it wasn’t base 10). The Mayans had a base 20 system.

    What is important for engineering is Cartesian Geometry. I didn’t know Rene Descartes was Chinese.
    Not many Chinese in this list.

    https://www.fabpedigree.com/james/mathmen.htm

    • Replies: @tamo
  145. MarkinLA says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    I am not denegrating Japan or China. Japan is not being held down technologically by the US. It is being held down for the same reason everybody is. When you first enter and engage in mature technologies, you make quick progress. When you try to push the envelope it slows way down as you go down blind alley after blind alley.

    The idea that somehow China is going to leave everybody in the dust because in 40 yars they have caught up to the west is just as ridiculous as it was 30 years ago when Japan was decimating the US semiconductor and auto industry and similar projections were made.

  146. MarkinLA says:
    @tamo

    I guess then the medieval non-Viking Europeans were dumber than Vikings or non-white Polynesians because they used the compass extensively for their voyages of discovery. I’m sure if non-Viking Europeans thought the compass was not important in their navigation, they wouldn’t have used it. But fact is they did.

    The simple fact is that long voyages accross oceans were made by people without the compass. While knowing your heading is certainly of value it wasn’t the compass that made long ocean voyages possible.

    • Replies: @tamo
  147. tamo says:
    @MarkinLA

    In my opinion,The Industrial Revolution started around 1760. By the early 1800s. China was way behind Europe. There were so many technologies transmitted to Europe before 1700s

    . Since you ask me to list the Chinese technologies that were transmitted to Europe in the 1700s.

    Here are some of them: deep drilling technologies for oil and gas ( China started using piped-in natural gas for lighting and heating in the 4th century BC), so-called Bessemer Steel Process, Siemens Steel process, watertight compartment, balanced rudder ( all these Chinese technologies were transmitted to Europe in the late 18th century and the 19th century).

    The following Chinese technologies were transmitted to Europe ONLY in the 1700s.
    Smallpox vaccination, row cultivation of crops, using horse-drawn hoes, cast iron plow with heavy moldboard, rotary winnowing fan, multi-seed drill, the Chinese weaving machines on which Hargreave’s spinnig jenny and Kay’s flying shuttle, etc.

  148. @tamo

    “…For example, the 19th century American textile industry was BASICALLY based on stolen British technology…

    America and Britain are the same culture. You cannot say that a culture “steals” from itself.

    • Replies: @tamo
  149. @Malla

    Hindu godmen or Hindu conmen?

    • Replies: @Malla
  150. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @MarkinLA

    The idea that somehow China is going to leave everybody in the dust because in 40 years they have caught up to the west

    Not quite. There are still 600 million rural Chinese with a mean GDP per capita of less than $3000.00.

    • Agree: Wizard of Oz
  151. getaclue says:

    So what do we do about Racial “advantages” in Basketball? Surely there is no doubt they exist at this point–look at the racial make up of the NBA teams–what else accounts for it? So we need to do something about it according to this Person? No, of course not, because some “groups” are more favored than others and she is of course good with them getting “advantages” just “because”…not so much the dreaded “whitey” or now Asians, any “advantages” that occur in them must be addressed by destroying them and the Lunatic Left is on the job doing that daily…while they destroy the country and everything else they touch.

  152. Bill says:

    “I have been doing business in China for decades, and I will tell you that yeah, the Chinese can take a test, but what they can’t do is innovate.” – Carly Fiorina, former HP CEO, 2015.

    Riddle me this: who would have run HP better: Carly Fiorina or a Chinese-American engineer “who tests well?”

    The presence of the quote is really interesting in that Fiorina’s career is, of course, practically the canonical example of the disasters that follow in the wake of Affirmative Action. How clueless do you have to be to lead a pro-AA essay with a quote from Carly AA Fiorina?

    It’s kind of cargo-cultish. Smart people sometimes begin essays with quotes from famous people who agree with them. I am a smart people. Carly Fiorina is 1) famous, and 2) has a quote agreeing with me. Therefore, I will lead with it. Cornell West’s writing is also like this. Cargo cultish.

    Maybe AA cases’ writing is often cargo cultish. Is Fiorina’s writing cargo cultish, I wonder. Maybe that’s the joke?

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    , @Aft
  153. Seems never to occur to half-smart soi-disant intellectuals that well adjusted actually smart people might want to live normal lives, make some money but not get obsessed with it, have a family and a life, but not tell everybody else on the planet what to do.

  154. @Triumph104

    Caltech is 43% Asian — that includes all Asians not just East Asians.

    Yes, you’re probably right. But I assume the South Asian component is not that high, as demonstrated by the math Olympiad team picture on top of this article (the kinds of HS students who qualify to Caltech).

    • Replies: @Triumph104
  155. Malla says:

    Evan if this claim that East Asians are not as innovative as Whites is true, it does not mean that their creativity is nil. Some people are pushing the idea that since East Asians have lower creativity than Euros, then their creativity is zero which is not true. It is like claiming that because East Asians have a higher IQ than Whites, White IQ is zero or 40 or something ridiculously low. East Asians are far more innovative than South Asians, Middle Easterners, blacks, Hispanics etc….

  156. @Astuteobservor II

    If a nation has been created by conquering immigrants, than by right of conquest it belongs to them. They therefore have the right to refuse (and send back) immigrants of a different identity. Call that “racism”, but all peoples of the world are essentially racist, not in the last place those who claim the “right” to invade (and eventually dispossess) white nations. In a world where every people is racist, Whites have the right to be racist too. Racism is a human right. That should be recognized by the UN.

  157. Malla says:
    @MarkinLA

    Japan is not being held down technologically by the US.

    Didn’t the Americans kill a superior Operating system developed in Japan or something, I did read it somewhere. And then you had the Plaza accords to kill off Japan’s meteoric rise.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  158. Anonymous[137] • Disclaimer says:

    https://web.archive.org/web/20110813170529/http://classics.lss.wisc.edu/~bbpowell/web/china.htm

    The contributions of the Han weigh enormously into the accomplishment of civilization, though are almost unknown, even to the Chinese themselves, who think of their great contributions as merely “The Four Inventions:” gunpowder, the compass, paper, and printing. But Joseph Needham of Cambridge University, who died in 1995, the greatest sinologist of his generation, spent his long life assembling evidence for the other extraordinary Chinese achievements in science and technology, published in his monumental Science and Civilization in China, of which nine volumes and several supplements have appeared. According to Needham’s work, the Han also invented the row cultivation of crops, the iron plow, and the horse collar, which transformed European agriculture when it came West in 700 A.D., 1,000 years after its invention in China. They invented the seed-drill, cast iron, and discovered how to make steel from cast iron. They invented the double-acting piston bellows, the crank handle, deep drilling for natural gas, the belt drive, water power, the suspension bridge, the essentials of the steam engine, the segmental arch bridge, lacquer, strong beer, petroleum and natural gas as fuel, the wheelbarrow, sliding calipers, and the fishing reel. The Chinese invention of the stirrup revolutionized warfare when it reached Europe in the 5th century A.D. and made possible the heavily armed knight, the crusades, and medieval romance. Of course the Chinese invented porcelain, a high-fired special clay–sometimes translucent–which rings when struck, always the most valued ceramic in the world. The Chinese invented the umbrella, biological pest control, matches, and chess, though most think the game came from India. They invented brandy and whiskey (which we could never seem to find), the mechanical clock, and systems of movable type seven hundred years before Gutenberg. They invented playing-cards and paper money, the spinning-wheel, the decimal system, the kite, and first experimented with manned flight with kites, made the first relief maps and invented the rudder. The Chinese first found a place for zero, invented negative numbers, and learned how to extract higher roots. They first worked with decimal fractions, used algebra in geometry, refined the value of pi, and defined “Pascal’s” triangle of binomial coefficients. The paddle-wheel boat is a Chinese invention too, as is land sailing, the canal pound-lock, batten sails and staggered masts, multiple masts, leeboards, and watertight compartments in ships. Already in the Shang dynasty (1800-1200 B.C.) the Chinese had invented the large tuned bell and tuned drums. Daoist priests discovered hermetically sealed research laboratories and first understood musical timbre and equal temperament in music (how to make the circle of fifths correspond with the octave, so that music can be modulated from key to key). In warfare the Chinese remained for long transcendent, inventing poison gas, smoke bombs, tear gas, the crossbow, flame-throwers, flares, grenades, metal cased bombs, land and sea-mines, and the rocket, both single and multistage. They invented the fire stick and the first true gun. The Chinese first understood how to diagnose diabetes through urine analysis and described the circulation of the blood 1,800 years before it was understood in the West. The Chinese discovered the solar wind, made the first Mercator map-projection, and recognized sunspots as solar phenomena. They understood circadian rhythms in the human body in the 2nd century B.C., invented the helicopter rotor and propeller, and the seismograph, and described the first law of motion 2,000 years before Newton. Only a European could discover and explain to Chinese their own past, because in China the past is not made by men striving for perfection, but is a moral pageant illustrating the universal state’s approach to and decline from heavenly favor. In China there has never been, and can never be, a scientific historiography.

  159. Malla says:
    @tamo

    China had the most advanced numeral system in the world that was called the counting rod number system which some scholars think the precursor of the Hindu-Arabic Numerals

    Very interesting. Can you give me more details about this? Links. I did read somewhere that the rod system came to India from China via South East Asia and that led to the Hindu mathematical system which became the Arabic system before reaching Europe.

    • Replies: @tamo
  160. @Anonymous

    The article’s hypothesis is that Asian IQ somehow drops about 15 points between age 14 (Stuveysant applicants) and age 18 (Harvard applicants). Color me skeptical.

    If this massive IQ falloff existed, it would be readily apparent by comparing the Asian scores at different ages on the NAEP (given at 4th, 8th and 12th grade); PSAT (around age 15), PISA (also around age 15), and SAT (around 17).

    The hypothesis also runs counter to the mass of data that IQ is relatively stable from around age seven.

    Bottom Line: Some cherry-picked data points, anecdotes, and speculation don’t really add up to anything.

    P.S., The comparison of IQ and “creativity” of Asians (or any other group) might be an interesting angle to study. Except no one can seem to define or quantify what “creativity” really is, anyway. So that avenue ends up being a bust, empirically.

  161. @MarkinLA

    I, for one would never argue any country or people will soar above the rest.

    But I would argue they can compete and innovate once caught up.

    I would still defend Japan here, no one knows what Japan would have become if it didn’t have a master to contend with. We just know what it is now under the yolk of its master.

    For that very reason, you cannot compare Japan to China, even if China has it’s own problems. But they are different problems and the results of China facing those problems are still unknown.

    Now imagine Japan x 10. That is the potential China. And without the yolk too. A worthy adversary is actually a good thing for China IMO. In this respect, USA is actually helping China.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  162. Interesting article. But off the subject, but still on Asians, has everyone noticed how young Asian women can look even well into their 40’s and can easily pass for someone in their 20’s? They have amazing complexions.

    • Replies: @TKK
  163. As an East Asian, I think this article made some good points, but I do take issue with this conclusion:

    A similar idea should be used in the gifted education system at every level, to ferret out the independent creatives from among those with relatively high test scores: if your creativity does not align with your high academic score, you should be automatically disqualified. Your “personality” should not matter.

    Most people who excel in STEM, whites included, are not particularly “creative”, while those who are creative are not particularly good in math and science. It’s the old left brain vs. right brain thing, which is why most scientific innovations are incremental rather than disruptive. Most gifted programs, IQ tests and standardized tests have a left brain bias. There aren’t a lot of good tests out there to measure creativity.

    Also, I have never heard of crystalized intelligence being linked to verbal intelligence. My understanding is that it is akin to “wisdom”, people who are able to continue to think, analyze, synthesize and learn from experience and observation.

    Many of the “Asian” percentages that the author quoted, incl. % admitted to Caltech, Stuy, Thomas Jefferson etc. also include a sizeable number of South Asians.

    • Replies: @Chanda Chisala
  164. This is an argument for rejecting black applicants who qualify because their race is more crime prone.

    But the author favors discrimination on behalf of blacks. So we need to pretend there are no blacks in the room when she is talking about Asians.

    • Replies: @Aft
  165. Mao died in 1976. Since 2002 there have been 8 Nobel Prizes in Physics from Japan and none from China. Young physicists do not get Nobel prizes, but 45 years seems long enough for some Chinese Nobels to start showing up.

  166. @Realist

    “…What are you going to do with all the blacks..?”

    Exchange them with the Whites of South Africa.

    • Replies: @Realist
  167. @Bullshit Artists of the East

    Chanda, not to be confused with, Chandra, which means moon in Sanskrit, a sister language to the that great mother of European patois, is an African. The surname, as they would call it in Africa, as opposed to last name here, is Chisala and it is of African origin. So repeat after me: Chanda Chisala is not an ethnic Indian. Now go get an enema to clear your shit-brain!

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Fair Assessment
  168. Malla says:
    @Franklin Ryckaert

    Hindu godmen or Hindu conmen?

    LOL, 95% of such Godmen, are as a rule, just conmen.

  169. tamo says:
    @MarkinLA

    Rene Desecartes might not be Chinese. But it looks like Chinese beat Descartes by 14 centuries in using algebra solving geometric problems. It seems to me the whole process was invented in China then transmitted to Arabs then to Europeans and finally to Descartes in the 17th century. Yes, the things I mentioned are great Chinese mathematical contributions. What’s mathematics without numbers? Yes, algebraic geometry is very important in engineering to describe shapes (geometry) of particular parts of a building or aircraft using equations (algebra) .

    The trouble with an idiotic eurocentric moron like you is that you don’t know much about China, but loves to spew out outdated eurocentric. garbage.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  170. Peter Frost says: • Website
    @Andy

    The West began to overtake East Asia (and the rest of the world) somewhere in the 14th century. The reasons are a matter of debate, and all too often the presumed causes are actually effects. The underlying cause seems to be the pacification of social relations and the steady demographic expansion of what would become the middle class.

    https://evoandproud.blogspot.com/2018/12/rise-of-west.html

    If you believe that human nature is unchanging, these facts show there are no mental differences between human populations, at least none that are innate. If you don’t, they don’t. The truth is that mean intelligence can change from one generation to the next. In Iceland, for instance, there has been over the past century a steady decline in alleles associated with high educational attainment. Today’s Icelander is not the same sort of person as the Icelander of a century ago.

    • Agree: Counterinsurgency
    • Replies: @tamo
  171. It is true that there has not been a lot of disruptive innovation coming out of East Asia, even though East Asian countries – Japan, S.Korea, China and Chinese dominant Taiwan, HK and Singapore, are very developmentally advanced. In their defense, I think these countries excel in making engineering intensive stuff like computer hardware, robotics, trains and cars. East Asians are good builders.

    My theory of why there aren’t as many East Asians who win Nobel prizes or are physics professors or famous composers is that East Asians are hampered by the 3 following culturally and historically induced character traits, namely they are too: 1) pragmatic, 2) materialistic and 3) conformist.

    Being pragmatic means that they often go for career oriented majors in college like business/economics, computer science, engineering or biology. They tend to shy away from majors where they do not see much real life application, i.e. “useless” majors like theoretical physics, math or music. Being pragmatic also means they are not idealistic enough to pursue careers in politics or journalism. Even when they go for law, they tend to go for corporate law rather than criminal or constitutional law.

    Being materialistic means they will go for majors where they can get the highest paying jobs out of college. There is no money and not much career prospects for theoretical physics, math, music or art majors — teachers, musicians and researchers do not make much money, so East Asians tend to shy away from them even if they excel in them, often due to parental pressure. Being able to drive nicer cars and live in bigger homes is too important to them because they and their parents tie their self worth to material well being. Being materialistic and conservative also means their smartest tend to go work for big, established companies that can give them the most job security and lowest risk(but low in innovation), rather than go for high risk startups that have disruptive technology.

    Being conformist means they try not to rock the boat too much, they are reluctant to challenge the status quo even though they disagree with it or are disadvantaged by it. This is why the Chinese in Southeast Asia have been persecuted for centuries. No matter what the brown natives do to them, they keep their heads down low and keep working harder.

  172. I have a different take. Ivy League colleges were founded by and for the American people and not for newly-arrived Chinese. Let the Chinese attend their own universities and not take up places which would otherwise go to Americans. They have a nerve demanding the right of admittance.

  173. AaronB says:

    The author should be commended for addressing the very serious and interesting issue concerning Asian intellectual underperformance.

    The defensive Asian claim that outstanding Asian intellectual contributions are just about to explode on the scene are less convincing with each passing year.

    Such claims were not convincing 10 years ago as they were based on false premises – theoretical contributions in math and other fields don’t depend on level of development – but they are even less convincing now.

    I understand why the author wants to try and explain this glaring anomaly within the IQ framework, but a better approach would be to question the validity of IQ tests altogether.

    Either way, 10 or 20 years people were content to wait for Asian performance to catch up with their testing – more and more, people are beginning to see that it is an anomaly that isn’t going away, and that will force us to reevaluate our models.

    This is good.

  174. tamo says:
    @Malla

    I read Decimal in Wikipedia. This is reference #30 Lam Lay Yong, “A Chinese Genesis, Rewriting the history of our numeral system”, Archive for History of Exact Science 38: 101

    Also check with 34 SINGAORE MATHEMATICAL SOCIETY HOMEPAGE:
    “ms.math.nus.edu.sg/smsmedley/Vol-15-2/ The Chinese rod…
    known numeral systems preceding the Hindu-Arabic numerals reveals that the Chinese rod system is the only one that is based on this concept. Up till now, it is generally assumed that the Hindu-Arabic system has its origins in India. However, there is no substantial evidence to justify this”.

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Malla
  175. zogborg [AKA "fuck society"] says:

    I wonder how this African clown would feel about discriminating against Africans in employment for being crime-pone and disease-ridden? Once again the ones who scream about racism the most have no problem about generalizing and being racist to others. Go back to Wakanda clown.

  176. Malla says:
    @Priss Factor

    Check out this book written by an Asian American:
    “Servitors of Empire: Studies in the Dark Side of Asian America” by Darrell Y. Hamamoto

    It includes about brown Caucasoid Asians too. Asians, the Yellow Mongoloid and the Brown Caucasoid varieties as well as others were brought into the USA and the West in general, by the Zio Western elites for some reasons.

  177. The combination of these 3 traits means many Asian kids excel only due to parental pressure. They work hard and excel in subjects that they don’t really love, like math, then go on to a well paid career that they don’t really love, like computer science, engineering or medicine, simply because these careers pay well, not because they love what they do.

    Major innovations and discoveries can only come from genuine curiosity and obsession. Only people who really love what they do or what they are studying can actually innovate or make major discoveries, not those who simply punch in and punch out, doing it for the money. The only thing East Asians esp. Chinese seem to obsess about is making money. This is the main thing that separates them from whites, esp. Germans, who are also pragmatic, conformist and engineering oriented, but nowhere near as materialistic.

    My son plays the piano and is really into classical music. He listens to classical music almost obsessively and has a vast knowledge of this genre even at a young age. In our area, the local high school orchestra and piano competitions are filled with Asian musical prodigies, many are highly technically proficient, but they seem to only play instruments due to parental pressure and/or to bolster their resume for elite colleges. Few are genuinely interested in classical music or know much about it beyond the pieces that their teachers selected for them to play. This is why despite all their talents, these musicians do not go far. It is a real shame.

    Perhaps when the average East Asian becomes as rich as the average westerner, materialism will give way to genuine talent, people will go into fields that they are genuinely interested in rather than just doing it for the money, and they will become more innovative. But then again, looking at Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore that have reached rich world status but have either dropped off in achievements(like Japan) or only care to get even richer, I’m not too hopeful.

    • Replies: @Mj
    , @baythoven
  178. Malla says:
    @Anonymous Snanonymous

    Now go get an enema to clear your shit-brain!

    Why would most people outside Africa or India giva damn about weird sounding African and Indian names. That is retarded.
    Besides everybody knows Indians are super jealous of the Chinese. Mention of China’s rise give million of people in India and abroad butt rash of jealousies. People go into hissy fits when China is mentioned. It is very entertaining.
    So one can understand why someone could easily mistake the author as one of those many butt rashed Indians.

    • Replies: @Anonymous Snanonymous
  179. Malla says:
    @tamo

    Thanks. I had read about it once and then later could not get much info about this fact.

  180. Realist says:
    @Franklin Ryckaert

    Exchange them with the Whites of South Africa.

    That would be nice…but not practical.

  181. If Harvard discriminates against Asians, fine.

    But France should deport the blacks and Arabs.

  182. Realist says:
    @Tim Stevens

    Dump a mountain of KFC’s best on some island in the Caribbean and let them swim there.

    I thought blacks weren’t good swimmers…or is that your point?

  183. It is also quite possible that although East Asians have higher average IQ than whites, they occupy a narrower range of IQ and/or concentrate in the middle, so they do not have as many occupying the highest and lowest ranges of IQ as whites.

  184. @Anonymous Snanonymous

    It is also possible that Chanda Chisala is an Indian who grew up in Africa and self-identifies as “African” when convenient. It is extremely rare for a real African to pick bones with IQ of non-blacks, esp. that of the East Asians’.

  185. AaronB says:
    @Fair Assessment

    The problem with this analysis is that Asians in general have not made major theoretical contributions to any field, which shouldn’t be the case if they were as gifted as is claimed.

    Take math, for instance. Supposedly, Asians are particularly gifted in this field, yet have produced few outstanding mathematicians. There is really no explanation for this.

    Engineering is less cognitively demanding than theory or innovation – much of it is trial and error and attention to detail – but even here, only Japan is on the level of the Germanic countries, for instance.

    So there is a serious, serious challenge to our models of intelligence going on here.While I disagree with Chisala’s attempt to explain this, he is to be commended for seriously trying to grapple with this issue.

    To vividly illustrate this, do a thought experiment. Imagine China, with its billion plus people, was populated entirely by Germans, say.

    Can anyone doubt that it would be the intellectual and technological center of the world almost overnight?

    • Replies: @Fair Assessment
  186. tamo says:
    @Malla

    Yes,the Islamic civilization was more advanced than the medieval Europe. I can see this because of the huge Islamic influence on Europe before or during the Renaissance, specially on European science.

    Tall or massive buildings don’t necessarily denote technological advances. The tallest building in the world is in Qatar . I really don’t think Qatar is a tech-power. The ancient Mayans had more impressive, bigger, taller stone structures than ancient Greeks in the same time period. I really don’t think Mayans were more advanced than ancient Greeks.

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Malla
  187. tamo says:
    @Peter Frost

    “The West began to overtake East Asia (and the rest of the world) somewhere in the 14th century”
    If you mean the West as Europe, then this is pure bullshit.

  188. @Tom Welsh

    Just one of many AA-appointed female CEOs who piloted their companies on to the rocks.

  189. Malla says:
    @tamo

    Check out the video, Europe had its fair share of influence on the Islamic world.

    The tallest building in the world is in Qatar

    Qatar or Dubai? But anyways Qatar/Dubai used Western technology and expertise and South Asian slave labout to build its tall building. England used local talent.

    And a lot of Islamic claims of scientific achievements have been blown out of proportion.

    • Replies: @tamo
  190. @Priss Factor

    A picture really is worth a thousand words.

    I feel bad for _all_ of these kids–they have no idea of how the adults have sabotaged their lives.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  191. @Miro23

    Exactly. Imagine for example the Jews came to America and said “look, we’re on average smarter than you guys so let us run your country”. Do you think Americans put up with that?

    Oh wait….

  192. tamo says:
    @MarkinLA

    Yes, it was the compass that was essential to long ocean voyages specially to previously unknown places where sailors don’t know much about.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  193. Malla says:
    @tamo

    More on this topic

    Debunking the Golden Age of Islam Series

    • Replies: @tamo
  194. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Priss Factor

    Nobody gives a shit about Euro race replacement immigration. But call it what it is, genocide, and every liberal twat with a pulse goes bonkers, while so-called conservatives squirm with embarrassment.

    The Euro nations are dying due to a complete lack of balls. The silly fuckers can’t even reproduce themselves.

    • Replies: @Priss Factor
  195. Malla says:
    @tamo

    Ah now I remember and it is funny as hell. This rod theory came in Indian newspaper websites , that is where I had read it and then it was scrubbed clean off their websites as we Indians did not want to accept that we did not invent the zero but the Chinese did it before us. LOL

  196. @tamo

    All the ancient civilizations were pre-scientific.

    Hellenistic Greece has a good claim for being the first society in the world to explore scientific questions using what we would today call a modern scientific method, even if that method was not, as far as we know, explicitly laid out. They even had the idea of scientific progress, where discoveries and insights led to other discoveries and insights. For details, see the book The Forgotten Revolution: Why Science was born in 300 B.C. and Why it Had to be Reborn by Lucio Russo.

    And, of course, ancient Greece was the wellspring where the Arabs and other Middle Eastern peoples in the medieval Islamic world got almost all their notions about science.

    Before the Industrial Revolution, very FEW ORIGINAL inventions and ideas came out of relatively backward Europe that had been heavily influenced by Chinese and Islamic inventions and ideas.

    That’s complete nonsense. The Industrial Revolution is usually dated as beginning around 1800. By that time science in Europe’s scientific revolution already had whiskers on its cheeks and was easily ahead, by at least a hundred years, of what had taken place scientifically anywhere in the world. Newton’s Principia was printed in 1687, which is a hundred and ten years before the term the Industrial Revolution was even coined.

    According to Francis Bacon, the prominent British scientist and statesman in the 17th century, the most earth-shaking inventions in the human history up to that moment, were gunpowder, printing, compass. These were all Chinese inventions.

    That old chestnut about Francis Bacon dates back to the Sinologist Joseph Needham, who in turn taught your source Robert Temple. But I’ve already said that the Chinese “produced quite a lot of original technology in an ad hoc fashion,” so I’m not sure what you think this is supposed to prove to me.

    Here are some other technologies invented by the Chinese, according to Needham: Blast furnaces, arched bridges, vaccinations against smallpox, crossbows, stirrups, seismoscopes, and toilet paper. Needham even claims they invented powered flight, which perhaps ought to give you some hesitation in accepting some of Needham’s claims.

    (Indeed, your respectable source Robert Temple is most famous for claiming that the Dogon people of Africa have some special knowledge from beyond the stars which was passed to them by ETs. Be careful of what your “respectable” sources claim.)

  197. tamo says:
    @Franklin Ryckaert

    Same culture or not, stealing is stealing. Japan was very upset with South Korea in the 80s for stealing it’s semiconductor technologies. Both Japanese and Koreans are culturally and genetically EXTREMELY similar East Asians. But that doesn’t mean Japanese like Koreans stealing their technologies.

    • Replies: @Alden
  198. Mj says:
    @Fair Assessment

    I recall an essay by Arnold Bennett where he claimed that Balzac and Dickens (Dostoyevsky, too?) were motivated mainly by money. “Noble” motives are unnecessary to achieve great things. Base ones will do.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Fair Assessment
  199. JoannF says:
    @Poupon Marx

    I’m not sure if that makes sense / is possible. It seems Whites can no longer govern themselves – look at those who do ! I have for years tried to motivate them… or at least. after listening and evaluating myself for years, tried to EXPLAIN. By now, it’s just an emanation of disgust here and there.

    Comments on forums are on the whole lost words… if you think you have actual advice that can be turned into practice, you should create a pdf that you can link to or attach in case of interest, so maybe the 2% with a mind can evaluate it in concentrated form.
    However, I cannot see how momentary white populations even possess the ability of WANTING to organize, let alone manage such a task. They don’t even in their majority want to KNOW about what might happen in the future.

    That exactly is their weakness (or privilege) as opposed to Jews, Muslims and even “brown people” (whoever that may be), these all want to better their own well-being.
    Whites do not as a group, only as individuals, and even then… not that much.
    They are content, they don’t know, they don’t care, and the only pride they take lies in this willful ignorance that they see as a strength.

    So what you propose would likely work, but I cannot see it put into action as the people concerned have no interest in self-preservation, they are too thorough mind-fucked and mentally obese.
    This is their nemesis, they don’t have a will to win, they have outgrown the need for a SPINE, and now it’s gone forever. Many literally refuse to listen and actively tell you to shut up – I have given up on friends.
    You can’t stop evolution (maybe Marxism combined with Islam can for while, they sure all set to).
    What I want to know is what comes after, and I think the question shouldn’t even be “what comes after the white race – it should be what comes after humans.

    I think those we call “the Elites” are asking themselves exactly that question, and there may be something positive in that, because thy need to start a development they must by definition lose control of eventually.

  200. Dannyboy says:

    Chanda…Sheeeit girl, is that a bona fide African name?

  201. eah says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    The only racial group who can claim that right are the native indians.

    You mean Native Americans.

    A couple of historical facts: the dome of St Peters in Rome was finished in 1589 — the first European settlers landed in North America 20 years later (some of them may have already seen an illustration of St Peters), where there were no recognized nation states, and really no civilization at all, as they understood it.

    The United States of America was later founded by (primarily) English colonists, many of whom were either settlers or direct descendants of settlers — this nation was expanded and developed by these same settlers, as well as immigrants, the vast majority of whom were white people from northern Europe, and whose courage, fortitude, and sacrifices are beyond your comprehension — by WWI, the US was a modern industrial nation, one created by Whites — the population was 90+% white, and the US belonged to them, not only due to the force of their effort, but as stated in the Constitution (“ourselves and our posterity”).

    USA is a nation of immigrants…

    So the US was a nation of Americans, not “immigrants” — this did not change significantly until the passage of Hart-Celler in 1965, when despite explicit assurances that the makeup of the country would not change, the demographic destruction of America really began; also the “nation of immigrants” myth — Americans, ie white people, never wanted mass non-white immigration, and would have rejected it, probably overwhelmingly, if asked.

    The US was no more a “nation of immigrants” than any other nation was or is — yet you repeat this nonsense like some schoolgirl looking for a pat on the head.

    People could be expelled after revoking citizenship.

    • Replies: @Urban Moving
  202. @Fair Assessment

    Also, I have never heard of crystalized intelligence being linked to verbal intelligence. My understanding is that it is akin to “wisdom”, people who are able to continue to think, analyze, synthesize and learn from experience and observation.

    From Wikipedia:

    Factors with median loadings of greater than 0.6 on Gf included induction, visualization, quantitative reasoning, and ideational fluency. Factors with median loadings of greater than 0.6 on Gc included verbal ability, language development, reading comprehension, sequential reasoning, and general information.

  203. Alden says:

    Chandra needs to do a little googling. Then he or she will come across many many many articles written by top university officials who advocate getting rid of SAT ACT and other tests altogether to accommodate dumb blacks and Hispanics. Tests are on the way out.

    The best and brightest have always attended secular and religious private schools. Certainly today as public schools have dumbed down to accommodate the dumb dumber and dumbest. So why all this endless discussion of public schools?

    And why should Whites worry about college and getting jobs when we’ve been affirmative actioned out of everything? Why should Whites give a rat’s ass about college admissions practices for Asians blacks Hispanics Indians MENAs jews and the rest of our enemies?

    • Replies: @Fair Assessment
  204. tamo says:
    @Malla

    One of the most important events in the world history happened during so-called Golden Age of Islam. That’s the birth of science or modern science with the development of EMPIRICAL scientific method in the 11th century. Even if we disregard every thing else that happened in the Islamic Golden Age, this is truly a monumental achievement because the Arabs gave the humanity science.
    Before that, all the ancient civilizations were PRE-SCIENTIFIC.

    • Replies: @Alden
  205. @tamo

    In science, Europe overtook China in physics including astronomy and math in the 17th century but China was still ahead of Europe in chemistry and botany until the late 18th century. Also in case of medicine, China was ahead of Europe well into the 19th century.

    Europe was ahead of China in astronomy and math in the 16th century. When Matteo Ricci showed up in China in 1582, Europe was already in front, as the Jesuits would easily demonstrate to the Ming scholars over the next couple of decades.

    That was before Galileo’s most famous work was published, a hundred years before Newton’s Principia was published, and two hundred years before the earliest dates given for the Industrial Revolution.

    Europe was also ahead of China in many technologies at the time – such as clock making and cartography.

    The Jesuit scholar Johann Schreck, a student of Galileo, published a book in Chinese on Western mechanical devices. It was a big hit among Confucian scholars, and shows that Western engineering was already ahead of Chinese engineering in the early 17th century.

    Your idea of believing that the Industrial Revolution was the key to Europe getting ahead of China is just nonsense. The Scientific Revolution predated the Industrial Revolution in Europe by a couple of centuries.

    • Replies: @tamo
  206. @tamo

    Yes, it was the compass that was essential to long ocean voyages specially to previously unknown places where sailors don’t know much about.

    Tell it to the Polynesians.

    • Agree: Poupon Marx
    • Replies: @Alden
    , @tamo
    , @anonymous
  207. utu says:
    @Fair Assessment

    “It is true that there has not been a lot of disruptive innovation coming out of East Asia, even though East Asian countries” – The key word here is “disruptive”. In what sense disruptive?Why Newton and Leibniz were “disruptive” while Seki Takakazu apparently was not?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seki_Takakazu

    In 1683, Seki pushed ahead with elimination theory, based on resultants, in the Kai-fukudai-no-hō (解伏題之法). To express the resultant, he developed the notion of determinant.[8] While in his manuscript the formula for 5×5 matrices is obviously wrong, being always 0, in his later publication, Taisei-sankei (大成算経), written in 1683-1710 with Katahiro Takebe (建部 賢弘) and his brothers, a correct and general formula (Laplace’s formula for the determinant) appears.

    In comparison with European mathematics, Seki’s first manuscript was as early as Leibniz’s first commentary on the subject, which treated only up to the 3X3 case. This subject was forgotten in the West until Gabriel Cramer in 1750 was driven to it by the same motivations. Elimination theory equivalent to the wasan form was rediscovered by Étienne Bézout in 1764. The Laplace’s formula was established not earlier than 1750.

    Another of Seki’s contributions was the rectification of the circle, i.e., the calculation of pi; he obtained a value for π that was correct to the 10th decimal place, using what is now called “Aitken’s delta-squared process,” rediscovered in the 20th century by Alexander Aitken.

    Will Shinichi Mochizuki work will be “disruptive” now when Japanese/Chinese science is integrated in Western Scientific Industrial Complex?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinichi_Mochizuki
    On August 30, 2012 Shinichi Mochizuki released four preprints, whose total size was about 500 pages, that develop inter-universal Teichmüller theory and apply it to attempt to prove several very famous problems in Diophantine geometry.[8] These include the strong Szpiro conjecture, the hyperbolic Vojta conjecture and the abc conjecture over every number field. The preprints have not been published. In September 2018, Mochizuki posted a report on his work by Peter Scholze and Jakob Stix asserting that the third preprint contains an irreparable flaw; he also posted several documents containing his rebuttal of their criticism.[9] The majority of number theorists have found Mochizuki’s preprints very difficult to follow and have not accepted the conjectures as settled, although there are a few prominent exceptions, including Go Yamashita, Ivan Fesenko, and Yuichiro Hoshi, who vouch for the work and have written expositions of the theory.[10][11]

    Jews or Jewish Civilization in general has not contributed anything to science until some Jews assimilated enough to be integrated in the Western Scientific Industrial Complex. Mathematical contributions of Europeans and Americans of Jewish heritage became significant in 20 century. Still in 18 century Jewish methods were based on Kabbalah’s numerology and gematria. Here is an example of how Gaon of Vilna arrived at his approximation of PI which has nothing to do with mathematically valid reasoning:

    http://www.inner.org/torah_and_science/mathematics/story-of-pi-1.php
    Based on this same observation, it is well known that the Gaon of Vilna, some 100 years later, offered the following elaboration. If we take the numerical value of the written form of “perimeter” (קָוה ), 111, and divide it by the oral form (קָו ), 106 and then multiply it by 3 we get a very good approximation for π. Specifically,
    3 · 111/106 = 3.1415094…

    Our scientific method particularly that of mathematics come from Greeks. Euclid’s Elements gave us a template for how to do math, what is the structure of mathematic theory which remains valid till now. And in 20 century (Godel, Church, Tarsky, Turing) the ineluctable limitations of this framework were elucidated.

    Anyway, the whole premise of Chanda Chisala article is ridiculous. His article belongs to the category of trolling and possibly scoring some Pokemon points somewhere from someone. I was disappointed that he did not bring back his Scrabble theory of African intelligence.

  208. @tamo

    I don’t know the value of giving a specific date for when the West overtook China, but clearly by the time the Jesuits visited China in the 16th century, the West was already ahead and the lead was growing quickly.

    Claiming the beginning of the Industrial Revolution is the key date is just silliness on your part.

    • Replies: @tamo
  209. @Pheasant

    That makes sense. I find it hard to believe those raghead sand monkeys can actually innovate. If they really did invent all the modern math and science, what the hell happened in the last 2,000 years? How on earth did they become among the most backward tribes today?

  210. Alden says:
    @Fair Assessment

    One thing all these great intellectuals thinkers and writers who endlessly ponder Asian IQ SAT test scores college majors and career choice DON’T KNOW because they don’t know any Asians ; is that Asian 18 to 25 year olds don’t choose their college majors and careers.

    Asian grandparents parents and other elder relatives choose the college majors and careers for the younger members of the family It’s The Asian Way. Motivation is money and greed. Whites send their children to law medical engineering and MBA school hoping their children will become rich.

    Asians send their children to law engineering STEM MBA schools because their children are expected to pay back the elders for the rest of their lives. Asians don’t just pay back their student loans. They pay back their parents for bringing them up and the grandparents for paying for tutoring or whatever.

    It’s one of The Asian Ways. There are many Asian Ways of which many UNZ authors and commentators seem unaware.

    • Replies: @Harry C
  211. @Counterinsurgency

    A lot of scientific and medical innovations today are done in teams rather than by individuals. The Asian engineers and scientists tend to be the nameless faceless grinds who did all the work while their often Jewish professors or startup founders take all the credit.

  212. tamo says:
    @Malla

    How about the ancient Greeks? they used slave labor to construct their impressive buildings. Some Greek city-states had more slaves than free citizens. How about gorgeous Angkor Wat? The medieval Europeans never built anything like that. I gave the Islamic civilization the credit for giving birth to science with the invention of EMPIRICAL scientific method knowing that all the ancient civilizations were PRE-SCIENTIFIC. This alone is the monumental achievement.

    • Replies: @Malla
  213. utu says:
    @Mj

    Obviously money factor was very important for Balzac, Dickens and Dostoyevsky? What is more important that they operated in large markets of French, English and to lesser extent Russian languages which could support many writers. This explains why literature of smaller countries developed much later and usually was imitative of whatever was done first in French, Spanish, English, German and Russian. Also large countries, large empires could make claims to universalism while smaller countries were provincial and parochial. Who knows of Slovak literature outside of Slovakia or Croatian literature outside of Croatia? When the project of destroying Europe monarchies became a part of British doctrine various provincial writers were boosted and given Nobel prizes to beef up the centrifugal forces of nationalisms.

  214. res says:
    @Aft

    You are right about Stuyvesant. Here is the relevant excerpt from the post.

    The most test-based meritocratic university in America is arguably the California Institute of Technology (Caltech) in Pasadena, California. It also happens to have one of the highest populations of East Asians at 43 % (incidentally, internal memos released in the Harvard case revealed that Asians would be exactly 43% of Harvard if only academics were considered!).

    43 percent sounds very impressive until you compare it to Asian over-representation at an even younger age. Stuyvesant High School in New York City famously uses nothing but test scores to admit the best students in the city. Although Asians are only 15 percent of New York’s population, they are an astounding 74% of Stuyvesant!

    The US undergraduate student population is 53% white and 11% Asian: https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2018/school-enrollment.html

    The New York City public schools population is 16% Asian and 15% white: https://council.nyc.gov/data/school-diversity-in-nyc/

    That Chanda Chisala chooses to make the comparison between Caltech and Stuyvesant without recognizing this important difference is telling.

    • Replies: @Aft
    , @Chanda Chisala
  215. TKK says:
    @Dennis Gannon

    Agree. Especially the Japanese woman have beautiful skin.

    They don’t lay out in the sun. They avoid any UV damage. I had a friend who married a Japanese girl and she even wore sunblock on the backs of her hands in the winter. She was also preternaturally thin. Very pretty and sweet natured. He’s a lucky guy but she expects him to earn, earn, earn.

    Think of places on your body that are rarely exposed to the sun- like baby skin.

    There are lots of women in the South that still lay in tanning beds. It catches up with them in their late 30s. Just that area on their chest…. décolletage?…is splotchy and mottled up., looks like beef jerky or they have been splashed with brown paint.

    Not attractive.

    Cultural upside down world- in the West, women pay to be darker and darker. In Asia and Africa, they pay to be lighter and whiter. In Africa (never the sharpest tools in the drawer) they sell a pigment cream- hydroquinine- that causes cancer and terrible skin problems but makes them lighter. They raid the shops for it in Jo’Berg just like a drug bust. It’s illegal.

    Yeah- its off topic but interesting. Everyone wants the opposite of what they have.

  216. Anonymous[410] • Disclaimer says:
    @j1234

    Haha. That was very creative.

  217. Alden says:
    @Pincher Martin

    I know the Polynesians were incredible navigators. But I believe they were prepared to live on their boats indefinitely till they found new islands. As long as they could collect and keep fresh water and catch fish they were OK.

    The Europeans. Arabs Asians Indians and everybody else wanted to get someplace and back home alive. So they needed the compass latitude and longitude. Some geniuses figured all that out.

    Off topic History channel has a documentary about the great liberal hero Stalin and the evil Russian Empire he helped overthrow. I’m going to turn it off and listen to Confederate army songs.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  218. Herald says:
    @Wally

    Of course, it wouldn’t be well known to you.

  219. Stealth says:
    @d dan

    That means they willingly took advantage of whites conquering the natives and taking their land from them. This applies to any non-European who comes here.

  220. David says:
    @Biff

    How did Chinese printing change the world? How did Chinese guns? Hint, they didn’t. Unless in the hands of Europeans, at least until the 20th century.

  221. George says:

    Harvard trains the ruling class. In a multi culti society the ruling class needs to be multi cultural, which means they all can’t be East Asian. I personally wonder if they divide the East Asian quota into individual countries and for China provinces.

    “East Asians develop their cognitive abilities faster than the young of every other population ”
    “the Chinese can take a test, but what they can’t do is innovate.” – Carly Fiorina, former ”

    Good, let them test out of K-12 and go directly the University, and leave us white people alone to mature slowly while playing ball sports. Win Win!!!!

    The only candidate with an innovative platform is Andrew Yang. White person Elizabeth Warren seems to mostly spit out whatever entitlement has been thought of in the last century. Kind of like she just memorized a list of them.

    Yang went to Philips Exter, possibly because his UC Berkley parents found something lacking in Schenectady NY. I have noticed that the current generation of elites went to private school or a few public HSs where their classmates were likely to be children of the prosperous. So what might be happening is although East Asians are on average smarter by nature, nurtured in the public school system dulls their creativity to the point they are not a threat to the current elites.

    • Replies: @Poupon Marx
  222. Spare us the “social science” BS. Harvard was founded by Anglo-Saxons for Anglo-Saxons (and native Americans) and this essential characteristic should be carried forward in perpetuity. If that doesn’t suit you, Wen-Ho and Prakash, found your own damned institutions. What’s stopping you?

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  223. Alden says:
    @tamo

    Stealing is one of the many Asian Ways of which the intellectuals writers pontificaters pundits and ponderers who write about Asia and Asians are ignorant.

    • Replies: @tamo
  224. res says:
    @PhdJKL

    GRE data by race and sex available at https://www.ets.org/s/gre/pdf/snapshot_test_taker_data_2017.pdf
    See Table 1.3

    Whites do slightly better on verbal, Asians do 0.5 SD better on quantitative.

    That link has other interesting data–like average scores by country of citizenship.

    MCAT scores by race available at https://www.aamc.org/download/321498/data/factstablea18.pdf

    Asians do slightly better.

    One thing you have to be careful with for comparisons like this is how selected the test taking populations are. If 80% of Asians take the GREs, but only 40% of whites (pretty sure those are absurd numbers, but the idea is what is important) then that will make the Asian average look worse relative to the white average (for the whole populations).

  225. @Astuteobservor II

    Allow me my impertinent curiosity in asking you ethnicity. Despite the literacy and intelligence of your posts you slip in the occasional grammatical irregularity – in this case “soar” instead of “soared” – which is a characteristic slip for some non native speakers of English. Mind you my detached interest really is detached curiosity because I am devoted to not-very-far-extended family members who are half East Asian and half Ashkenazi though I like to think wholly modern civilised, unlike most of most nations’ populations.

    I note BTW in comment on someone else’s scepticism that China has still much progress to look forward to relative to the declining US and Europe, despite similar dysgenic breeding for a few decades of One Child Policy. There are still many millions of bright people to be modernised. A shame about their ignorant nationalism given their numbers and potential power. India is obviously more problematic mostly because of caste.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  226. MarkinLA says:
    @Malla

    As opposed to what? Burroughs was the first company to come up with what we call an operating system today – ahead of IBM. Burroughs called it the Master Control Program. IBM was just so much bigger that it caught on. As far as “superior” that would be debatable. Are you talking about PC operating systems? Windows NT was never built with the idea of security in mind. As far as I know they never made use of the 386 hardware protection levels that could have made it far more secure.

  227. MarkinLA says:
    @Bill

    Carly Fiorina was your typical non-technical manager. I believe she was some kind of star in the marketing division. The problem was that HP was a well respected technology company that made high end but expensive equipment. All she knew how to do was what she was taught in business school – financial jiu-jitsu and nothing else.

  228. MarkinLA says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    There are tons of technological fields where Japan would not necessarily interfere with the US Empire such as medical device technology. Japan isn’t significant in these fields so I don’t give much weight to the idea that the US is holding Japan down. Yes, maybe in nuclear weapons research but not a whole lot else.

  229. @Alden

    I know the Polynesians were incredible navigators. But I believe they were prepared to live on their boats indefinitely till they found new islands. As long as they could collect and keep fresh water and catch fish they were OK.

    The point is that it was not impossible to navigate long distances across oceans without a compass.

    • Replies: @Alden
  230. MarkinLA says:
    @tamo

    Mathematics without numbers is what modern algebra is all about. Look it up, it is about sets and operation on those sets. Numbers make the operations easier to see.

    It seems to me the whole process was invented in China then transmitted to Arabs then to Europeans and finally to Descartes in the 17th century.

    And you have no proof of that. Just like all the Sinophiles. There is absolutely no proof that certain European technologies were based on anything from China, only that some academic some place found some old manuscript somewhwere and spun some tale. However, just like in paleontology there is a huge missing link.

    Archimedes was using infinitesimals to calculate areas without a decimal numbering system. It is all about the concepts regardless of how its represented. In the old days of computers when there was no hardware floating point all fractions were treated as scaled integers with an implied decimal point.

    • Agree: Pincher Martin
    • Replies: @utu
    , @tamo
  231. lloyd says: • Website
    @dvorak

    Japanese people do not and never have considered themselves Asian. That is a Western social construct. I told my Chinese students not to use this non Asian word Asian about themselves as it implies inferiority. The Japanese are Aryan with a mixture of East Asian and Pacific Islander. Unlike the West, their entire culture except for fringe elements identifies to pure Samurai Aryan elitism. Japanese culture invented No and Kabuki theatre, bonsai and industrial steel. All original inventions. Asia at best has made refined copies of others’ inventions. Adolf Hitler with reluctance in Mein Kampf wrote the Japanese are Aryans. Japanese live Western life styles hugely different from Asia. So it is not in the least surprising, really, that in the 1980s, Japanese pioneered global inventions. To be superseeded by the Western Aryans, actually all white males, who invented Silicon Valley in California.

    • Troll: utu
    • Replies: @jimmyriddle
    , @anonymous
  232. @HunInTheSun

    ‘Spare us the “social science” BS. Harvard was founded by Anglo-Saxons for Anglo-Saxons (and native Americans) and this essential characteristic should be carried forward in perpetuity…’

    It’s a bit late in the day to have that thought.

    • Replies: @HunInTheSun
  233. tamo says:
    @Pincher Martin

    Jesuits transmitted a lot of ADVANCED Chinese technologies to Europe in the 17th and 18th centuries.

    I’m so sick and tired of these Eurocentric hypocritical morons making a very big deal of the Jesuits in the late 16th and 17th centuries transmitting European astronomy and mathematics to China while forgetting that the Jesuits also transmitted such ADVANCED Chinese technologies as metallurgy, weaving machine, porcelain,silk, dye, tea,agricultural etc to Europe. Also at this time period, China was ahead of Europe in magnetic science and botany, chemistry. medicine.

    Just read SCIENCE AND CIVILIZATION IN CHINA by Joseph Needham, the most respected sinologist of all time. Also the mechanical clock which was driven by water power was first invented in China in the 8th century with the invention of the most critical part of the mechanical clock, the ESCAPEMENT MECHANISM.

    According to historian Derek J. de Solla Price, the Chinese escapement spread west and was the SOURCE for WESTERN ESCAPEMENT TECHNOLOGY. Many centuries later, Europeans made more advanced mechanical clock run by a weight or springs.

    As Derek J. de Solla Price implied,, Europeans could not have developed their mechanical clock without incorporating the Chinese ESCAPEMENT MECHANISM first. By the late 18th century, China-made mechanical clocks were as good as European ones at two-thirds of the cost.

    Needham has pointed out the importance of distinguishing two moments: transcurrent and fusion. The “transcurrent point” designates that moment at which the European scientific and technical level surpassed that of a particular non-European civilization.
    The “fusion point” designates that moment at which the body of knowledge and technique belonging to a particular non-European traditional science is successfully incorporated into the modern scientific system.

    In mathematics, astronomy, and physics, the fusion point (1640) followed rather quickly upon the transcurrent point (1610)( meaning Europe overtook China in 1610 in physics including astronomy and mathematics}

    Here are some of Chinese technologies that were transmitted to Europe in the 18th century by direct or indirect diffusion: deep drilling technologies for oil and gas ( China started using piped-in natural gas for lighting and heating in the 4th century BC), so-called Bessemer Steel Process, Siemens Steel process, watertight compartment, balanced rudder ( all these Chinese technologies were transmitted to Europe in the late 18th century and the 19th century).

    The following Chinese technologies were transmitted to Europe ONLY in the 1700s.
    Smallpox vaccination, row cultivation of crops, using horse-drawn hoes, cast iron plow with heavy moldboard, rotary winnowing fan, multi-seed drill, the Chinese weaving machines on which Hargreave’s spinnig jenny and Kay’s flying shuttle, porcelain etc.

    BEFORE the 18th century a lot more Chinese technologies were transmitted to Europe such as gunpowder, gun, cannon, rocket including multi-stage ones, both sea and land mines, bomb, hand grenade, printing including movable type, compass, cast iron, blast furnace, coking coal, silk, lacquer, draw loom, paper just to name a few.

    The scientific revolution in Europe contributed very little to the advancement of new technology due to the disconnect between nascent scientific theories and lack of accurate experimental devices. So until the 19th century, it was technicians and craftsmen not scientists that contributed to European technology by using the old-fashioned trial and error methods. So your idea of Europe overtook China in technology before the Industrial Revolution is pure bullshit.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  234. @Priss Factor

    Jews and Asians also have to go.

    • Replies: @Priss Factor
  235. stevecel says:

    Your article is a bit moot if you concede Asians have higher fluid intelligence, which may not necessarily be the case. The fact is there is no reason why the white population should have to justify their discrimination against an outgroup on any basis. We don’t have to make things up for why we want to support our people. The rest is all shuck and jive.

  236. @Wizard of Oz

    Peking U is far more selective than Oxford or Cambridge (especially for lucrative non-EU foreign students who are charged about 5x the tuition of EU students).

    The mainland Chinese students in top tier western universities are the scions of wealthy families who didn’t get into the top Chinese universities. That doesn’t mean that some of them are not very bright indeed.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  237. tamo says:
    @Pincher Martin

    They might get way in the Pacific where they are familiar with currents, winds, geography without the compass. But I strongly doubt they can do that in totally unfamiliar areas such as the North Atlantic Ocean without the compass.

  238. utu says:
    @MarkinLA

    Archimedes was using infinitesimals to calculate…

    But this knowledge was lost and forgotten until reinvented by Newton and Leibniz in 17/18 century. The latter added much more formalism that is still used while Newton used geometric methods that were somewhat similar to what Archimedes used which however were lacking clarity and easiness of generalization unlike Leibniz approach.

    without a decimal numbering system

    The numbering system is of secondary importance. How people do calculations in their heads may vary and might be beyond any formal numbering system. Some mathematical savants can’t even explain how do they make complex calculations n there heads. Some shepherds can see the numbe of their sheep w/o actual process of conscious counting.

  239. @PaulM

    We know also that Chinese culture in its different forms has been around for just a little while longer than “Western pink” culture, and in that time innovated and refined many of the artifacts that define most human culture in the world today.

    If 5000 plus years is considered “just a little while longer” then you’ve made the understatement of the year.

    Personally, I’m not a big fan of their pottery, though exquisite they are; but I do marvel at their engineering feats, especially their bridges.

    Here’s the oldest standing bridge in China–and one of my favorites–completed in 605 called the Anji Bridge:

    Here’s one of China’s latest and the world’s tallest bridge, Sidu River Bridge, opened in 2009:

    Wikipedia has a list of the worlds’ highest and longest suspension bridges and about 90% of them are Chinese built.

    List of world’s highest bridges here

    List of world’s longest suspension bridges here

    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome
  240. tamo says:
    @Pincher Martin

    I already answered that. Read my post #238. You are the one who are spewing out the debunked Eurocentric garbage.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  241. Peter Frost says: • Website
    @tamo

    “If you mean the West as Europe, then this is pure bullshit.”

    Interesting counter-argument. A number of economic historians, including non-European scholars, argue that Western Europe began to overtake the rest of the world between the years 1000 and 1500:

    In the case of China, there were many historical similarities with Western Europe, particularly the steady demographic expansion of its middle class at the expense of its lower classes. But that process failed to translate into middle-class domination of Chinese society. Nor did it form a basis for sustained economic growth and technological progress. In fact, from the 11th century onward, China entered a period of stagnation and relative decline.

    One reason was that power fell into the hands of foreign elites: first the Mongols and then the Manchus. China’s population actually declined during the 12th and 13th centuries as a result of Mongol depredations. The Manchus were somewhat better, but their policy of cultural isolationism resulted in wariness of any innovation, even when it was authentically Chinese.

  242. Mj says:
    @Tom Welsh

    Are you telling me that a once-great company was destroyed by a self-worshipping American boomer wahman? Give me a break. We readers of Unz weren’t born yesterday!!!

    • Replies: @anonymous
  243. @Wizard of Oz

    Haha, just be content with knowing I am American. Big difference between me and others is that I believe in competition, not forced domination plus stagnation as I believed the latter will never last. If you check my comment history, I really don’t care much for grammars, and I know I am bad at it. Not sure when I gave up on it, but I did for all online postings.

    If we want to talk about GDP per capita, China has a long way to go. Decades. It just all depends on which part of the comparison between USA and China you want to look at. Nationalism is a good tool to unite the populace when facing a declining super power I would argue. Hell, all that talk about patriotism in the USA went over your head? All the European countries could use a very healthy dose of it right now as they are under attack by weaponized migrants aiming at replacing the native population. I also have very very different opinions about ideologies than you.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  244. @Peter Frost

    Peter, you seem to be very knowledgeable. Will you be publishing on unz soon?

  245. @d dan

    Asians have as much right to call this nation, or this continent, their home, as the white people.

    As an Asian, I actually disagree with you. Whites came to this country not as “immigrants” but as settlers, big difference. They arrived when there was no concept of America as a country, no government, and no borders have been clearly defined. The pilgrims had to first survive a grueling journey across the sea, then arrived at a mostly empty land and had to clear the swamps, grow and build everything with their bare hands while under constant attacks from hostile natives, who let’s be honest, were a bunch of jungle tribes with no written language and not much of a civilization to speak of. In short, they worked through harrowing conditions to build this country. As such, their descendents have a right to call this place theirs and determine who gets to come in. It’s how all countries are founded.

    Comparatively, immigrants today arrive in relative comfort in airplanes or cars, or simply cross the border on foot, to a country that is already mostly built, with a stable government with defined borders and a first world living condition. And instead of clearing the land and doing the hard work to grow their own food and build their own homes, they take jobs from natives and depend on others to grow their food and build their homes.

    If whites in this country don’t have the right to call this place theirs, then neither can the French call France theirs, the Chinese call China theirs, the Russians call Russia theirs etc.

    I think that 99% of Asians who arrived after 2000 should be sent packing. Only those who are loyal to this country and only this country should be allowed to stay. Anyone who speaks another language should be sent packing, period. Dual language = dual loyalty.

    • Disagree: d dan
  246. tamo says:
    @MarkinLA

    You said “Mathematics without numbers is what modern algebra is all about. Look it up, it is about sets and operation on those sets. Numbers make the operations easier to see”Hey, I’m not talking about the modern algebra.

    I’m talking about algebra 2000 years ago. Ancient Greeks had a hard time to develop algebra because their lousy number systems based on their alphabet. On page 158 of THE GENIUS OF CHINA OF CHINA by Robert Temple states that the algebraic geometry was first used in China in the 3rd century and it spread to the Arab world in the 9th century and to Europe in the 13th century. The first European who adopted the method was Leonardo Fibonacci then Descartes in the 17th century.

    Why don’t you read SCIENCE AND CIVILIZATION by Joseph Needhaml the most respected sinologist of all time. This monumental book was selected as one of the 100 best English non-fictions of the 20th century by the Random House or THE GENIUS OF CHINA by Robert temple, a well-respected scholar of the oriental studies or just take a look at the LIST OF CHINESE INVENTIONS in Wikipedia.

    It seems to me you don’t know jack shit about the ancient and medieval Chinese technology. So, before spewing out garbage, read those books I mentioned and then you will know how a lot of Chinese technologies were transmitted to Europe.

  247. @Bruno

    You ignore intense ethnic nepotism which is bred into the DNA of the Hindus. Ironically, a Korean American grad recently sued Intel in the Sacramento County Court stating there’s an entrenched (Asian) Indian hierarchy at play which makes it vet difficult for non Indians to get promoted or to receive timely paid vacation

    Similar lawsuits are running against cisco and Oracle where the Hindus have established a neo feudal lordships with a fixed hierarchy. And it’s affecting other asians as well. This shows ethnic nepotism combined with moderate intelligence wins the day

    • Replies: @Bruno
    , @Commentator Mike
  248. lysias says:

    Perhaps the Asian students are satisfied with having achieved professional status, and, once they have accomplished that, are more concerned with family than with further individual advancement.

  249. @Priss Factor

    I agree. Too many Asians (incl. and especially Indians) go to Ivy League schools and come out evangelizing for the globohomo. This is why I think the elite college discrimination against Asians is a *good* thing. They should bar all Asians from attending, period, for their own good and the good of the world.

    • Replies: @zogborg
  250. tamo says:
    @Alden

    When America was a developing country in the 19th and early 20th centuries, an America that lacked both creativity and originality, was the biggest thieving- copycat in the world. Consequently, the U.S. became the counterfeit capital of the world.

    America copied other countries’ inventions, ideas without regard to patents, copyright, trademarks. Even the U.S. Treasury Department under Alexander Hamilton set up a bounty system for rewarding anybody for stealing and bringing foreign technologies to America. As a matter of fact, the 19th century American textile industry was basically based on stolen British technologies.

    Every developed country went through copying stage before it became innovative. Germans copied from British. Americans stole and copied from Europe (Even in the early 20th century, American car makers were busy reverse-engineering more advanced European cars) and Japan stole and copied from both Europe and America.

    Also before the Industrial Revolution the technologically backward Europeans directly or indirectly copied a lot of things from China and Islamic civilization

    • Replies: @Counterinsurgency
  251. @Astuteobservor II

    If you feel so strongly about China’s potential, why don’t you move back there? Why are you here?

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  252. @tamo

    Jesuits transmitted a lot of ADVANCED Chinese technologies to Europe in the 17th and 18th centuries.

    I’m so sick and tired of these Eurocentric hypocritical morons making a very big deal of the Jesuits in the late 16th and 17th centuries transmitting European astronomy and mathematics to China while forgetting that the Jesuits also transmitted such ADVANCED Chinese technologies as metallurgy, weaving machine, porcelain,silk, dye, tea,agricultural etc to Europe.

    I don’t really care what you are sick and tired of. You’re pushing a bunch of flatulent nonsense.

    These Chinese “technologies” as you call them, were not scientifically-based, as we understand science today. They were simply “products” that the Chinese had developed in an ad hoc fashion over the centuries. They had a literary background to their development, but they were NOT the equivalent of science and math that the Jesuits passed along to the Chinese. They were not deduced.

    So these technologies were not scientific. End of story. Anymore than the Polynesians traveling across the Pacific Ocean did so because of science.

    The development of the clock in Europe, however, was scientifically based. (As was astronomy and Western engineering.). That’s why they went somewhere with it while the Chinese went nowhere with their invention.

    And it wasn’t because the West read Francis Bacon.

    Just read SCIENCE AND CIVILIZATION IN CHINA by Joseph Needham, the most respected sinologist of all time.

    I’ve read it. Or at least small parts of it. I doubt anyone other than a scholar with a focus on the history of Chinese technology has read the whole thing.

    Also the mechanical clock which was driven by water power was first invented in China in the 8th century with the invention of the most critical part of the mechanical clock, the ESCAPEMENT MECHANISM.

    And yet like all their inventions, the Chinese went absolutely nowhere with it. Nothing developed from it. In some cases, until the publication of Needham’s book, the Chinese even forgot some of their own inventions. In other cases, Needham exaggerates the inventions, taking for granted some literary description of what might be a technical feat, but for which there is no other evidence for it.

    As Derek J. de Solla Price implied,, Europeans could not have developed their mechanical clock without incorporating the Chinese ESCAPEMENT MECHANISM first.

    The Chinese had nothing to do with the development of the clock in Europe. The escape mechanism was developed independently in Europe. You say, Derek Solla Price *implied* because you know he can’t state it outright. There’s no evidence for transmission.

    And you can go to the Palace Museum in the Forbidden City today to see how fascinated the elite Chinese were in the Ming and Qing dynasties by the clocks given to them by Europeans.

    By the late 18th century, China-made mechanical clocks were as good as European ones at two-thirds of the cost.

    No, they weren’t.

    Needham has pointed out the importance of distinguishing two moments: transcurrent and fusion. The “transcurrent point” designates that moment at which the European scientific and technical level surpassed that of a particular non-European civilization. The “fusion point” designates that moment at which the body of knowledge and technique belonging to a particular non-European traditional science is successfully incorporated into the modern scientific system.

    Needham was a scientist, but he was not an expert in the history of science in the West. You don’t get that knowledge just by being a Westerner. So his “transcurrent” and “fusion” points are at best questionable interpretations and, more likely, they’re just garbage.

    Here are some of Chinese technologies that were transmitted to Europe in the 18th century by direct or indirect diffusion: deep drilling technologies for oil and gas ( China started using piped-in natural gas for lighting and heating in the 4th century BC), so-called Bessemer Steel Process, Siemens Steel process, watertight compartment, balanced rudder ( all these Chinese technologies were transmitted to Europe in the late 18th century and the 19th century).

    Complete horseshit. I do like how you qualify it, though, by saying they may have been transmitted by “indirect diffusion,” which is another way of saying no one can trace the influence.

    The scientific revolution in Europe contributed very little to the advancement of new technology due to the disconnect between nascent scientific theories and lack of accurate experimental devices.

    You mean, like Robert Boyle’s vacuum? Papin’s pressure cookers? Newcomen’s proto steam engine? Galileo’s (et al.) telescope? Pascal’s calculator? Hadley’s octant?

    You really don’t know anything about the Scientific Revolution, do you?

  253. @JoannF

    Miss Joann, I have read a number of your comments, and they strike me as very down to earth, not dogmatic, and are inductive. You reason by example, evidence, and observation, not deduction, theory, or idea(l) first, then go our and find some examples. I do not see this kind of cognitive process enough. Indeed, it has gotten to be rare in the West.

    Even though I have laid out a step-by-step, interactive plan that uses racial reality with more highly predictive outcomes, there has been almost no interest beyond, “That was a good post!” Your response, even if I disagreed with it-which I do not-is honest and penetrating. I do not expect any bandwagon effect. In fact, somewhere and sometime, when Whites (more appropriately referred to as Indo-European), feel pain, terror, to dispel their ennui and aversion. When the Beast is breathing on them, with its putrid, fetid breath and the blood of others drips from its incisors, they will be “REPORTING FOR ACTION”.

    “Many literally refuse to listen and actively tell you to shut up – I have given up on friends.” That’s because broaching the subject instantly causes a fear reaction, viscerally, and they love posting pictures on Facebook.

    Way less than 50% of Whites-perhaps as low as 15%-are suitable for action, vision, commitment and follow through. The American Independence Revolution was actually fought by a similar number; the rest sided with the Birtish, while most watched from the gallery, testing the wind. Logically, this means that no actions of “Whites” will be successful in the present Western milieu. This is too small a percentage, in absolute numbers to affect a restoration and risorgimento

    Therefore, using the momentum and wishes of the Blacks and Browns for ethnic republics, we get ours the easiest [the only] way we could ever. From that point, like an island we could restock our “Herd” and restore and rebuild our gene pools. That, in all finality, is by far the most important argument: our ability to genetically regenerate what we have lost over MILLENNIA. The only focus is demographics, which is collective genetics.

    I greatly appreciate your critique on my plan-it is general within specific steps. As you said, I could shop it out to see if some existing ray cyst White Nationalist Salvation Last Chance website might start a conversation.

    Finally, what is heart rendering, is that I feel not many can even understand what I am saying and the context and reasoning support I endeavor to provide. I’m a retired mechanical engineer. Beyond aesthetics, I am governed by practicality and what works. If I think it will not, I don’t hold on to it.

    • Replies: @JoannF
  254. @Tim Stevens

    Yuck. Just yuck! I hope there isn’t anybody among my circle of friends who think like this.

    • Replies: @Tim Stevens
  255. @Pincher Martin

    You are generally correct and objective in your analysis. Plus, you seem to have some knowledge of the Orient in addition to the Scientific Method. I know why the Chinese did not take the ladder from these inductive discoveries and explore more abstract principles and abstractions. Not because the could not or lacked the ability. Their inhibition was cultural and much of that was conceit.

    Confucianism and the coding of all private and public actions, permissions, ideals, was retrospective, not futuristic. The conceit was Chinese culture that saw itself as near perfect and IS, not BECOMING.
    This is a general outline and context. They did not have-or want to have-an Enlightenment.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  256. @Colin Wright

    I wonder, when the Zionists of the 19th century were planning to re-establish Israel at its ancient location, which was then part of the Ottoman Empire and hadn’t had Jews as residents for over a thousand years, did anyone tell them “it’s a bit late in the day”? America is the Anglo-Saxon Zion.

  257. @tamo

    You answered with more banalities and inaccuracies. In short, you answered nothing.

    Not even Needham would say that the Chinese only fell behind because of the Industrial Revolution. He blames the lack of systemic theories, which – like the old Marxist he was – he blamed on Chinese feudalism.

    • Replies: @tamo
  258. zogborg [AKA "fuck society"] says:
    @Fair Assessment

    What about the argument that elite college discrimination is a huge limiting factor in Asians becoming more influential and powerful in American society? If you haven’t noticed, the U.S. is not a great place to be born an Asian male, literally at the bottom of the American social hierarchy.

    • Replies: @Fair Assessment
  259. @Rabbitnexus

    You mean like professor Yu wanting whites out of Vancouver, right? That’s what you meant I’m sure!

    [MORE]

    Lolzzz. Yuck?!! How ’bout I just spam your inbox with beheading videos from Mexico, heads being sawed off while the guy is screaming? Or blacks hacking off each others’ limbs with machetes in Africa!! And me not wanting whites to be genocided makes you ill?? Just wait til this country collapses, you ain’t seen nothing yet. My suggestions that non-European should be repatriated will be tea time compared to what’s coming. I’m trying to stop a catastrophe.

  260. @Fair Assessment

    Wizard, this is why I don’t reveal my ethnicity, so I can still read and elicit golden nuggets like this.

    It is one of the best entertainments to me. Am I weird? 🤣

  261. @AaronB

    Take math, for instance. Supposedly, Asians are particularly gifted in this field, yet have produced few outstanding mathematicians. There is really no explanation for this.

    But that’s just it, the point I was making was, Asians don’t typically major in math even if they are math olympiad winners. The practical minded side of them thinks theoretical math is not very useful, that math is only useful as a way to understand engineering or economic theories. The materialistic minded side of them think mathematicians don’t earn much, there are no job prospects other than being professors, which is a long slog, low pay and what if you don’t like teaching? So they overwhelmingly do not major in math, even if they win gold in IMO.

    Imagine China, with its billion plus people, was populated entirely by Germans, say.
    Can anyone doubt that it would be the intellectual and technological center of the world almost overnight?

    As I mentioned in a later post, Germans are like East Asians in that they are also practical minded and good with engineering. But they are not as materialistic and are also more individualistic, which allows them to go into fields that they actually love like music, research etc. even when there’s no money in those fields, i.e. they do them out of love, which is why they are more innovative. You have to do what you love to innovate. Asians go for the money instead of doing what they love, so they don’t innovate.

    Japan is now becoming more innovative and producing more Nobel prize winners because they have reached that point where the country is so well developed even those who don’t have a lot of money can live a relatively good life. China will take longer to reach that point because it’s such a large country. The competition is fierce for people to get ahead, so they lie cheat steal and step over each other a lot more, also since the country is not as developed, having more money still makes a big difference in how well you live, so money is still the top concern. As long as their best and brightest go for the money instead of doing what they love, they won’t innovate.

    • Agree: Counterinsurgency
    • Replies: @AaronB
  262. @Fair Assessment

    I was curious after your reply. Hot damn, another house nigga is found.

    Israel shamir should be proud.

    • Replies: @Fair Assessment
  263. @Mj

    Money is definitely a factor in innovation. Look at what our youth aspire to do these days — follow the money: those who excel in STEM want to go into Computer Science and join a startup to write yet another app or get a good job with a top tech firm. Those who don’t do well in STEM want to be YouTubers, full time videogamers or rap stars. That’s where all the money is these days.

  264. @Colin Wright

    I agree. There are so many falsehoods in this piece that it’s hard to believe how poor it really is. Let’s start with who runs the Ivy League and Harvard. It’s not the whites! Over 75% of all presidents, department chairmen deans etc. are JEWISH. The first job of these Jews is to eliminate white males which they do handily unless you are a nutbag Commie like David Hogg who fits right into the Cesspool called Harvard.

    Next…why would anyone compare the number of Professorships as being successful? The Asians can do basic math and realize they have little chance for many of these because they are not Jewish! Did you see how much money these so called “limited Asians” are making? Who are you to decide on what is determined to be successful by your limited understanding of the world. Many of these Asians are employed by big firms and in industry especially in the engineering fields where I believe they make more money than an average professor even at these prestigious schools without all the headaches.

    And finally…Leadership? What the fuck is that? Do you mean like Obama and his wife or Dyson or even Sharpton. Is that the leadership? Leadership usually means a person who has little content and context of the real world but is great at starting trouble and shaking down society for every cent they can somehow get. The Jews are very good at this. I guess that’s because they have great leadership!

    The real problem in the masses of East Asians at our major universities is that upwards of 25% of them are spies in STEM and Tech fields. Our government and intelligence agencies know this and do nothing. And the real problem of blacks, Hispanics, and even whites today is they worry about their “social status” and other esoteric nonsense while East Asians shun most of this. They study day and night and steal our technology while “the social mental midgets” are too depressed because they didn’t get enough smiley face emojis on their phone today.

    If this keeps up they will beat us at everything and then you can tell us how lack of creativity and their lack of leadership will doom them.

    • Replies: @Counterinsurgency
  265. @Alden

    And why should Whites worry about college and getting jobs when we’ve been affirmative actioned out of everything? Why should Whites give a rat’s ass about college admissions practices for Asians blacks Hispanics Indians MENAs jews and the rest of our enemies?

    Because you have your children and grandchildren to think about, what kind of country do you want them to grow up in? One that more resembles the third world or the one you grew up in?

    • Replies: @Alden
    , @Alden
  266. bjondo says:

    Not sure what to make of Mr IQ overload.
    Should he be allowed to have anything to do with AI?
    Certain he has made Harvard and MIT proud.
    Typical of the AI seekers?
    Why do they search? Willing female dolls?

    Then there is Minsky.

    Bless the Asians. I think?

    Are they as perv as Stallman, Minsky, Dersh?

    Watch to the end.

  267. tamo says:
    @Peter Frost

    Well, I have alternate suggestions for you. Why don’t you read ReORIENT by Andre Gunder Frank and The Great Divergence: China, Europe, and the Making of the Modern World Economy by Kenneth Pomeranz, The Eastern Origins of Western Civilization by John M. Hobbs?

    All these economic historians and historian agree that Chinese economy was a lot bigger than that of Europe and it’s living standards were HIGHER than Europe in 1750.

    Also according to Paul Bairoch, one of the most respected economic historians of the 20th century, stated that in 1750, China’s share of world manufacturing share was 32.8% and Europe 23.2% and China’s per capita income was $ 228 and that of Europe was $ 150-200.

    Adam Smith said in 1776, China was a MUCH RICHER COUNTRY THAN any part of EUROPE. The Jesuits had been well ware of this for a long time. Jean-Baptiste du Halde, a Jesuit priest noted in 1735 that the internal trade of the flourishing Chinese empire was INCOMPARABLY SUPERIOR to that of EUROPE. You can find all these things in an article titled ALL THE RICHES OF THE EAST RESTORED in Le Monde diplomatique.

    Also read SCIENCE AND CIVILIZATION by Joseph Needham or THE GENIUS OF CHINA by Robert Temple to find out China was AHEAD of Europe in TECHNOLOGY before the Industrial Revolution.

    It sounds like Europe couldn’t overtake China TECHNOLOGICALLY or ECONOMICALLY after many thousands years of trying but it took the Industrial Revolution for Europe finally to overtake China.

  268. @Astuteobservor II

    I won’t pause to follow up your last sentence except o say that I would be intrigued to read your elaboratoon of it. Another verbal point: it leaves it uncertain whether you think I have an ascertainable ideology and that it is different from yours or whether you detect a view that I appear to hold ABOUT ideologies and that you disagree with that.

    But I will add, for fun, the trivial observation that I long ago noticed a verbal marker that I associated with Jews – even the Aistralian born lawyer son of Holocaust survivors for example. That is e.g. “if I would have” sp theu might say “if I would have known that I would have etc” instead of the idiomatic “if I had known that I would have etc”. I guess your family’s original language would be one where words don’t have inflexions such as German and Latin, for example, have in abundance. Possibly one of the Chineses.

  269. Alden says:
    @tamo

    You mean the scientific method known as the scholastic method in 10th century Paris?

    Interesting what these Sinologists make up.

    • Replies: @tamo
    , @Colin Wright
  270. anonymous[378] • Disclaimer says:
    @David

    Freaking pathetic. Who are smarter to put the so called “Western Technology” if that is true into creating jobs and exportable products for world-changing use? The boomerang comes back and hit you in the head. Fortunately there is nothing there to damage.

  271. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:
    @Pincher Martin

    This is true, but the connection between technology and science, even in the West, is less strong than generally supposed. What the West had was a tradition inherited from the Greeks of philosophy, thence natural philosophy, thence modern theoretical science. This science was often applied after the fact to technologies developed by practical men with no background in science themselves.

    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  272. Alden says:
    @tamo

    Laugh out loud. And didn’t some Chinese admiral discover America hundreds of years before Columbus? And build all the Inca Mayan and Aztec structures? I wonder how these geniuses came up with a printing press for a language with 3,000 characters. The Chinese, just like the Europeans Arabs Indians and everybody used carved in reverse page size wooden stamps with words and pictures. There’s a big difference between advanced page size stamps and printing.

    What happened you got your PHD in Hate Whitey studies and can’t even get a 6 hour a week community college job?

    • Replies: @tamo
  273. tamo says:
    @Pincher Martin

    Read SCIENCE AND CIVILIZATION IN CHINA or THE GENIUS OF CHINA that is a shortened version of Needham’s SCC. Needham said that in terms of technology, China was in the dominant position both before and after the European Renaissance. It’s very easy to come to the conclusion that this situation lasted until the coming of the Industrial Revolution after reading both or one of these books. It’s obvious that it took the Industrial Revolution for Europe to overtake China both economically and technologically

    Read THE GENIUS OF CHINA that is very easy to read and understand instead of mouthing off your outdated and debunked eurocentric bullshit.

    • Replies: @Alden
    , @Pincher Martin
  274. @Poupon Marx

    I agree. Confucianism was incredibly conservative in its outlook. What’s more, Confucian scholars were far less interested in technology than they were in literary matters and moral relations. So China’s best minds were generally pushed in a direction not conducive to the development of science.

  275. anonymous[378] • Disclaimer says:
    @anonymous

    What an ignorant fool. From your own USNews ranking,

    Top Global CompSci Univeristy https://www.usnews.com/education/best-global-universities/computer-science

    Top Global Engineering University https://www.usnews.com/education/best-global-universities/engineering

    They come to US because it is very very easy to get into US universities.

  276. @zogborg

    If all top Asians shun elite colleges, these colleges will no longer be elite, as their median SAT scores and rejection rates would plummet compared to the Asian heavy colleges like the state flagships, and their graduates will not do as well as the top Asians who graduated from elsewhere. Asians’ eagerness for acceptance bolstered the elite status and snob appeal of these colleges. Meanwhile, Asians who graduated from these schools too often turn into libtards like Ted Lieu (Stanford), judges Derrick Watson (Harvard) and Theodore Chuang (Harvard), Sarah Jeong (Berkeley, Harvard).

    If the best and brightest Asians stop applying to elite schools, simply go on to state colleges, major in what they love and start their own companies they will do far better than doggedly seeking admission to the Jews’ club by obediently playing by the Jews’ rules (and still get rejected in droves), while helping to make these snobbish institutions even more elite in comparison.

    • Agree: MAOWASAYALI
    • Replies: @Tired of Not Winning
  277. @Colin Wright

    He publishes and hosts worse than this one author and article (even “in the opposite direction”, and not limited to that).

  278. @tamo

    Well, I have alternate suggestions for you. Why don’t you read ReORIENT by Andre Gunder Frank and The Great Divergence: China, Europe, and the Making of the Modern World Economy by Kenneth Pomeranz, The Eastern Origins of Western Civilization by John M. Hobbs?

    All these economic historians and historian agree that Chinese economy was a lot bigger than that of Europe and it’s living standards were HIGHER than Europe in 1750.

    I’ve read the first two books Tamo lists here. The first is awful. I’m not sure how anyone could read Frank and not consider him an idiot. The man is barely literate, perhaps because he never really learned English, and his arguments in Reorient are silly. He was an old silly Marxist who ultimately repudiated the Marxism but kept the silliness.

    Pomeranz’s book is much more interesting and worth reading, but has been criticized by economic historians for greatly overstating its thesis. I’m not surprised to see Tamo floating in the wake of that book’s arguments. For what it’s worth, Pomeranz is a trained historian, not an economist; the quantitative arguments supporting his book’s thesis are shaky.

    I haven’t read the Hobbs’ book.

    Adam Smith said in 1776, China was a MUCH RICHER COUNTRY THAN any part of EUROPE.

    Adam Smith would have no way of knowing how to calculate, let alone compare, per capita income in China and Europe.

    • Replies: @tamo
  279. Anonymous[244] • Disclaimer says:
    @Tsigantes

    In turn most of the graduates it churns out – especially the summa cum laudes – will be aggressive conformists and predictable parroters of the institution’s reigning ideology rather than anything remotely approximating an original or inventive thinker.

    Come on. That’s not untrue, but has nothing to do with focusing on IQ.
    The monkey-see-monkey-do certainly are prevalent among the high-IQ slice of the populace almost as they are in the rest (certainly not more).
    It’s not focusing on IQ that harms the quality of education, it helps it instead. Then the speediest careers and loftiest honors will tend to be given to the parroters because school is an institution, and institutions will mirror the average (in this case the average with regards to deference to power, and in all cases the average as in fear of open-mindedness and free-spacing thinking).

    • Replies: @Poupon Marx
    , @Tsigantes
  280. anonymous[378] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    How does that compare to the security of the current US climate of NSF and NIH persecuting Asian American professors and university researchers on trump up Al Capone charges??

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  281. Alden says:
    @Fair Assessment

    My husband takes care of the money. Everyone of our 8 grandchildren was given an apartment house in the Silicon Valley San Francisco Bay Area in their first year of life. None of them will have to beg the capitalist pigs and affirmative action enforcers for a job. Ever.

    Our 4 children all work in the family business. We just finished the new warriors stadium. The elites and government of the White race threw the rest of us to the dogs via affirmative action. So why should Whites care about other Whites?

    99 percent of Whites fall into 2 categories

    1 Whites who want to destroy other Whites.
    2 Whites who’ve allowed themselves to be destroyed.

    We were newly weds the summer of 1968 when the White MEN, not White women of congress and the Johnson administration passed the affirmative action act. I said “ who cares, just more black postal workers”. Husband and his brother answered “it will soon affect all Whites and your top 5 university degree won’t help you at all”

    They were right and I was wrong. When other Whites start to resist affirmative action we might help. But when the majority of Whites are anti White we’ll take care of our own.

    At one time I did a lot of research about affirmative action. Can’t believe the lengths to which affirmative action goes. Even persuaded husband to give a lot of money to the anti affirmative action Prop 209 which has never been enforced because there never was any enforcement built in. He told me at the time it was money down a rat hole. And it was.

    The future of White America was destroyed by 2 White man Presidents 100 White man Senators 9 White man Supreme Court judges and all but 5 White man congress critter’s between 1968 and 1973 Griggs vs Duke Power. Kaiser vs Weber 1979 was just a mopping up operation that reinforced Griggs.

    5 years was all it took. When other Whites start supporting Whites maybe I’ll change my mind.

    Until then, all our grandchildren are taken care of for the rest of their lives. That is, unless the American government decides to confiscate all the real property of Whites as the communists did to their enemies when they took over China and Russia. I wouldn’t be surprised if that happens sometime in the next 100 years.

    Sincere apology for being a bitch. But we’ve been dealing with affirmative action for 51 years. We withdrew from the fight because very few Whites have the money ability or wish to do anything about. Those who do have ability and money are anti White.

  282. tamo says:
    @Alden

    LOL, you are out of your league, my man.

    • Replies: @Alden
    , @Poupon Marx
    , @Pheasant
  283. @Pincher Martin

    Even comparing Greece-originated European culture with others is an act of exceeding patience.
    Even Charles Murray in is book on human achievement unwittingly underplays it (giving it a strong Anglo-centric spin, by the way).
    But it also shows some commitment to time-wasting, because, apart from the supporters of other cultures and races who will have to disagree, the very heirs of that heritage have come to/have been carefully made to disown it.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  284. anonymous[378] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    It is by design and selection to give the Harvard Blacks more self confidence. Harvard is on the path to become Harward. Who was Obama’s advisor on HBCUs?

  285. Anonymous[241] • Disclaimer says:
    @jimmyriddle

    I would simplify the issue by stating that in China school is still a thing, with the selection by skills (and all the “racism” and still more so “sexism” it comes paired with), while the West, with English-speaking places leading the way, has been transitioning to school not being school any more.

    But the fight against “racism”, and specially misogyny, that one is almost won. LOL.

  286. @Alden

    My husband takes care of the money.

    Well, certainly. That’s the chief use husbands are, as all know.

    As for your portrait of Whites, I agree with it. They are under a compulsion to contest with one another for who is best at virtue signalling and altruism feigning. Like for every sport and activity there is a most talented race, it seems that in those two “sports” Whites, specially of North European lineage, are the masters.

    How much of that is genetic talent and how much training from the Unified Western Schools and Media, that’s open for argument. But in any event, they’d still have proved to be talented learners, wouldn’t have they?

  287. Alden says:
    @Fair Assessment

    Some of My grand children are growing up in the third world. Every day up the 280 from a 90% White San Mateo suburb to a private high school in San Francisco via SF’s skid row. Can’t get more third world than that. Family business helped build San Francisco’s Sales Force Tower, tallest building west of the Mississippi, towering over the worst homeless mess in the country. That’s third world isn’t it?

    My children grew up in a San Francisco that turned into a squalid Chinatown during their child and teen years. The model minority; 25 people in a thousand sq ft house and an illegal sweatshop or chicken slaughterhouse in the garage. Bay Area and Santa Clara are unlivable except for very rich Whites and foreign coolies and stupid liberal Whites who think it’s cool to live like coolies.

    We survived and flourished despite the efforts of every White judge and politician intellectuals and academic to destroy us. So f..k em. And I don’t really give a rats ass what Harvard does to itself.

    Sorry to be a bitch, but it’s been a hard 53 years since the affirmative action act of 1968

  288. @whattheduck

    Oh and before the civilisation started in white nations, China and India were way ahead

    No, they weren’t.

    • Troll: MAOWASAYALI
    • Replies: @Poupon Marx
  289. @Anonymous

    This is true, but the connection between technology and science, even in the West, is less strong than generally supposed. What the West had was a tradition inherited from the Greeks of philosophy, thence natural philosophy, thence modern theoretical science. This science was often applied after the fact to technologies developed by practical men with no background in science themselves.

    Obviously, technological developments have existed without theoretical science for millennia. All of imperial China’s history is proof that a civilization can be rather adept at developing various technologies without ever having theoretical science.

    But I was responding to a fellow who claimed, and I quote, “The scientific revolution in Europe contributed very little to the advancement of new technology.”

    That is flatly false. How did Denis Papin and Thomas Savery, both of whom were working firmly in Europe’s new scientific tradition, not contribute to Watt’s steam engine, for example? They were both inventors working in a scientific tradition which assumed technological progress was possible and looked for it at every opportunity. That is something which was always lacking in Imperial China.

  290. Alden says:
    @tamo

    So what Podunk community college to you teach 2 courses a week in?

    • Replies: @tamo
  291. tamo says:
    @Pincher Martin

    I think those books are great and all these authors are outstanding. If you don’t like them, then it’s just too bad. Adam Smith didn’t have to calculate per capita income. All he had to do was get general idea of Chinese economy vis a vis European economy. The per capita income number I gave you is from Bairoch not from Adam Smith. I said economic historians and a HISTORIAN to cover all these three scholars.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  292. @tamo

    Read SCIENCE AND CIVILIZATION IN CHINA or THE GENIUS OF CHINA that is a shortened version of Needham’s SCC.

    Do you have a reading comprehension problem? I’ve already told you I read both. In fact, I was the poster who first mentioned Needham in our discussion when I told you he was the one who taught Robert Temple.

    • Replies: @tamo
    , @Poupon Marx
  293. @Astuteobservor II

    USA is a nation of immigrants

    Every nation except Kenya and/or Tanganyika is a nation of immigrants. So they all must play by the same rules, or none must.

    One in every 4000 residents of China is an immigrant. In India, it’s one in about 250, with 90% or more from an adjacent country.

    American exceptionalism is BS. We have just as much right as they to aim for that level. A century of moratorium would do it.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  294. @anonymous

    They come to US because it is very very easy to get into US universities…

    …if your family is willing and able to pay the full cost. It isn’t so easy for Americans.

  295. @anonymous

    Sorry, I have no idea what your are saying or how it might be relevant to anything I have said or replied to.

  296. anonymous[378] • Disclaimer says:
    @Tim Stevens

    What do the Native American the Na Dene population, Oppenheimer and Confucius have in common? They all share the same male lineage of Y DNA haplogroup Q, i.e. they have common ancestors about 20,000 years before present, may be even 7,000 bp before the Na Dene group crossed over to America. It seems that you are the one suppose to leave. Even the Jews have more right than you!

  297. CanSpeccy says: • Website

    Here’s an explanation for Asian academic supremacy, but innovative deficiency.

    Asians, being reliant for survival on labor-intensive rice cultivation, have, of necessity, a tradition of hard work and reliability.

    Hard work leads to academic achievement, which is correlated with IQ.

    North Europeans, dependent on grass-fed animals for a diet largely of milk and meat, have survived merely by waiting for the grass to grow. Thus blessed with many idle hours they formed habits of introspection and speculation, which resulted in a cascade of innovations leading to the modern world.

    Although both Asian and European modes of existence have now converged, the differences in temperament and habits of mind persist. The superiority of Asian IQ does not compensate for the difference in mental habits because every human mind is a universal mechanism, such that all problems open to solution by the human mind are open to solution by any human mind.

  298. tamo says:
    @Alden

    Hey dummy, you said”Laugh out loud. And didn’t some Chinese admiral discover America hundreds of years before Columbus? And build all the Inca Mayan and Aztec structures?’. That’s your stupid idea, not mine, lol !!!! ” wonder how these geniuses came up with a printing press for a language with 3,000 characters”
    I think there are more than 3000 characters in the Chinese written language. Yes, China invented printing both wood block and movable type that Chinese invented about 400 years before Gutenberg developed one in Europe. By reading your stupid comments, I can guess you have about 9 years of schooling at most .lol !!!!

    • Replies: @Alden
  299. @MAOWASAYALI

    Here’s the oldest …bridge in China…completed in 605 called the Anji Bridge:

    From Wikipedia:

    Anji Bridge

    …it later fell into obscurity. When Professor Liang Sicheng … rediscovered the bridge on a field exploration of ancient architecture in Hebei province, he made detailed measurements and published a report and drawing,[9] after which the bridge became world-famous

    9.^ Liang, Ssu-ch’eng (January 1938). “Open Spandrel Bridges of Ancient China.

    I propose that the Anji Bridge was built a little before 1938.

    • Replies: @MAOWASAYALI
    , @Alden
  300. @Pincher Martin

    Ever since reading Greg Clark’s A Farewell to Alms I have added another cause to his list of why the Industrial Revolution (and the Scientific Revolution for that matter) started in Britain, namely that a Chinese father of a bright 8 year old who might be sent to a tradesman as apprentice didn’t have a Bible in his native language which the bright boy could learn to read in 6 to 12 months but only the difficult prospect of finding someone willing and able to teach a fiendishly difficult (written) language over about 3 – 4 years.

  301. @Peter Frost

    LOL. Acedemia knows the GDP per capita from 1100. The must have kept their receipts.

  302. Alden says:
    @tamo

    The company I and my husband own just finished the new Warriors stadium, helped build the tallest building west of the Mississippi, the Sales Force Tower and a couple years ago did the complete electrical refit of the Golden Gate Bridge a 2 year job. 3 generations on the Golden Gate Bridge from the first designs to the latest refit

    What have you done but sit in a podunk college classroom taking anti White hatred classes?

    Real White men build cities. Wimps and nerds like you just sit in colleges spewing hatred at the real White men who designed engineered and built the college you sit around in, the roads cars buses you take to the college and the heating electricity and indoor plumbing even printed the books in the library. Can you even replace a ball cock nerd? Do you even know what a ball cock is mr wimp nerd?

    Real White men build. Jews blacks Hispanics Asians and White liberals destroy what real White men built

    And who cares what Chinese claim they did 3,000 years ago? Who cares what Harvard or any other university does? . Who cares what White hating White liberals do? Until the liberals start confiscating the real property of Whites we’ll be safe.

    And as I’ve asked Rob and other Sinophiles many times, if China’s so great why are they so eager to leave? And not just recently for the west coast of N America, since ancient times, Indonesia Philippines Vietnam Cambodia Thailand all over Asia? Why beg borrow and steal to get the money to come here and give birth to an anchor baby? Why borrow $50,000 and sell themselves into indentured servitude to work as a slave in a Chinese restaurant or sweatshop just to get to America and Canada?

    People of prosperous countries don’t do everything they can to escape to another country. They leave for lack of opportunity. Let them stay in China if it’s so great. Since they are swarming out to any country that will take them, China can’t be so great can it?

  303. anonymous[378] • Disclaimer says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    From the Chinese government’s statistics, the average stay of the Chinese students in US was about 2 years, i.e. most of them did not finish the 4 years university studies. That is the quality of the group they complain about giving them too much competitions!

  304. @tamo

    Adam Smith said in 1776, China was a MUCH RICHER COUNTRY THAN any part of EUROPE.

    Adam Smith? Lets read his book…

    AN INQUIRY INTO THE NATURE AND CAUSES OF THE WEALTH OF NATIONS. By Adam Smith
    The poverty of the lower ranks of people in China far surpasses that of the most beggarly nations in Europe. … The subsistence which they find there is so scanty, that they are eager to fish up the nastiest garbage thrown overboard from any European ship.

    Oh.

    [MORE]

    The accounts of all travellers, inconsistent in many other respects, agree in the low wages of labour, and in the difficulty which a labourer finds in bringing up a family in China. If by digging the ground a whole day he can get what will purchase a small quantity of rice in the evening, he is contented. The condition of artificers is, if possible, still worse. Instead of waiting indolently in their work-houses for the calls of their customers, as in Europe, they are continually running about the streets with the tools of their respective trades, offering their services, and, as it were, begging employment. The poverty of the lower ranks of people in China far surpasses that of the most beggarly nations in Europe. In the neighbourhood of Canton, many hundred, it is commonly said, many thousand families have no habitation on the land, but live constantly in little fishing-boats upon the rivers and canals. The subsistence which they find there is so scanty, that they are eager to fish up the nastiest garbage thrown overboard from any European ship. Any carrion, the carcase of a dead dog or cat, for example, though half putrid and stinking, is as welcome to them as the most wholesome food to the people of other countries.

    • Replies: @tamo
  305. @atlantis_dweller

    Even comparing Greece-originated European culture with others is an act of exceeding patience.

    I wouldn’t go that far. China has a rich and interesting history of technological development and discovery. And it has clearly been far more advanced than Europe at various times in its history – economically, technologically, socially, etc. But sometime around the end of the Ming dynasty (1644), China began to fall behind the West. And by the beginning of the Qing dynasty, it was clearly falling far behind.

    This divergence wasn’t always clear – even to prominent Westerners at the time. For example, Leibniz and Voltaire were both highly enthusiastic about China. Leibniz, in fact, may have been the greatest Sinologist of his time. Yet they were both unaware that China was already in decline.

    The modern scientific revolution clearly made Europe not only far more developed than China, but also far more developed than anything Europe had ever been before. Until modern times, China was often ahead, less often behind, but it was never far behind and its position vis-a-vis the West was always debatable.

    But it also shows some commitment to time-wasting, because, apart from the supporters of other cultures and races who will have to disagree, the very heirs of that heritage have come to/have been carefully made to disown it.

    Ain’t that the truth. I always assume these guys I argue with online are white boys who have been taught to hate their own culture.

    What someone like Tamo doesn’t understand is that Needham’s book is a catalogue of various discoveries in China only in the sense that Needham discovered them. In some cases even the Chinese were not aware of them. It took an outsider to find them and then systematize them in a particular Western science that highlighted their importance – an importance that the Chinese were not previously aware of.

    Needham also hypes up Chinese development. What are we to make of his claim that the Chinese discovered powered flight and Newton’s First Law of Motion in the 3rd century?

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  306. ziggurat says:
    @Fair Assessment

    I appreciate this sentiment, as a white guy with several Asian friends and very agreeable coworkers throughout my life. I have certainly nothing against Asian people, but immigration has been too high for too long. It’s breeding a contemptuous entitlement among many immigrant groups.

    However, I’m OK with some immigrants remaining who came after the year 2000. I just want some of them to leave, the ones who are either 1) serving as cheaper labor and not really contributing or 2) not respectful of their adoptive country, not trying to assimilate, want to change it without even understanding it first, are anti-white, and believe that everyone is entitled to come here.

    Also, we need have a near moratorium on future immigration, be very selective based not only on skills but also culture, promote Western culture in the schools and the historical figures who built it, and ensure that everyone is treated equally under the law. If we did all of that, then I think we could begin to come together as a nation and there would be even less bigotry than there is (not that there’s much of that to begin with.)

  307. Bruno says:
    @PorkTastic

    Indians that come to the USA are from very high IQ selected Jati. Probably their IQ is the same or higher than ashkenazim. They have the highest average salary per household without making children work (like Filipinos).

    But nepotism probably help a lot for all asian (as for Jewish). I wonder if there this also White elite places and businesses ?

    • Replies: @PorkTastic
  308. Alden says:
    @Pincher Martin

    I know what you mean. The Polynesians must have used the stars? . But did they have a destination or just go off knowing they’d find a habitable island sooner or later? We’ll never know. What they did was amazing. .

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
    , @MarkinLA
  309. Alden says:
    @d dan

    I’ve known that for years. Because I worked at a major university overwhelmed by foreign Chinese students and TAs and they all said that.

    Ever heard about the dorms at Peking university? They say if you can survive the Peking University dorms you can survive anything 9 people on triple bunks in a room so small they have to walk sideways between the beds.

    So expand existing universities and build new ones. That’s what’s been done in America Europe and India.

  310. @Alden

    ‘You mean the scientific method known as the scholastic method in 10th century Paris?’

    Maybe 13th century, or possibly 12th. Certainly not 10th.

  311. @anonymous

    While achievement motivation could be put under the umbrella of “aggressiveness” if there are only 5 available categories to choose from, it’s too different from other more traditional variations of aggressiveness to be grouped together with them and used as a coherent idea for explaining successful accomplishments.

    Well, looks like I blew that one. The “A” in the Big Five “OCEAN” mnemonic acronym actually stands for “agreeableness”. My mistake.

    However, you bring up an interesting point, and here’s an actual paper on it that seems to agree with your point:

    This study investigated the relationship between aggression and the Big Five personality traits (Extroversion, Agreeableness, Conscientiousness, Neuroticism, and Openness to Experience) in Australia and Singapore. Two hundred and forty-three undergraduate respondents from Singapore and 189 undergraduate respondents from Australia participated in the study. All participants completed a self-report questionnaire consisting of the 34-item Aggression Questionnaire (AQ) and the 40-adjective Mini- Markers. As predicted, the hypothesized relationship between Big Five traits and aggression were similar across both samples: Aggression had significant negative correlations with the Big Five traits of agreeableness and conscientiousness, and aggression had a significant positive correlation with neuroticism. In line with the hypotheses, the Big Five traits of extroversion and openness to experience were not associated with aggression. These findings, suggest at a preliminary level that the relationship between Big Five traits and aggression may be universal for individuals from at least two cultures.

    [1]

    So “aggression” doesn’t look all that plausible as a success predictor. Many of the successful people I’ve met are so agreeable that they seem to have agreed to have their brains removed sometime during their career, “empty suits” in the common parlance. One can cite CEOs signing a declaration that “abortion is essential to the US economy because it is essential for career development” (trans: we’re all behind killing our employee’s kids) and the current crop of Democratic Presidential candidates.

    I don’t think I have any answers here beyond “I don’t know”.

    Counterinsurgency

    1] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/232444713_Relationship_Between_Big_Five_Traits_and_Aggression_A_Comparison_Between_Undergraduates_from_Australia_and_Singapore

  312. anonymous[378] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jon Claerbout

    How many mouths can be fed by the works of Nobel Prize winners?? Engineers can set up factories and create jobs. US can have many Nobel Prize winners but the jobs are going to China. In fact the Chinese government’s policies emphasize Engineering and Technology and most of the leaders are engineers. Chinese high school principals push their best students to engineering. What is so good about expert at pure science but many are jobless, substance abusers and suicidal?

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  313. @Tim Stevens

    “Asians have as much right to call this nation, or this continent, their home, as the white people.”

    Hey, finally a justification for the British Empire.

    “White people have as much right to call Asian nations, or the Asian continent, their home, as the present Asian people.”

    Counterinsurgency

  314. @Erik Sieven

    I think there is no valid method to test “independent thinking” or “creativity”.

    It’s not a problem. Just find the kids the teachers are trying to destroy. Those are he creative ones who can think independently.

    Or, dropping irony, schools strongly oppose independent thinking and creativity in students. Think of the high school teachers you have known. Even on the university level, many of the professors (in my experience) do not understand the meaning of the methods they are teaching, and so dislike real questions.

    Counterinsurgency

  315. anonymous[378] • Disclaimer says:
    @Pincher Martin

    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/10/game-changing-study-suggests-first-polynesians-voyaged-all-way-east-asia

    “‘Game-changing’ study suggests first Polynesians voyaged all the way from East Asia

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  316. anonymous[378] • Disclaimer says:
    @res

    There is no Chisala in 2010 US Census’ list of surnames. Class of 2009. So he was not in US in 2010. But wait, the surname could be Chanda,

    name = Chanda
    rank = 30139
    npop = 778
    prop100k = 0.26
    cum_prop100k = 78866.07
    pctwhite = 29.43
    pctblack = 5.14
    pctapi = 61.18
    pctaian = 0.0
    pct2prace = 2.7
    pcthispanic = 0.0

    High probability of having Asia Pacific Islander ancestry.

    • Replies: @res
  317. @Astuteobservor II

    Trialing?

    In Singapore, they are already in use in all MacD outlets!

  318. anonymous[378] • Disclaimer says:
    @lloyd

    Liar.

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-44473-z

    “Genetically, the mainland Japanese are closely related to Koreans, followed by Han Chinese, and finally by other Continental East Asians3.”

  319. @Fair Assessment

    The crucial innovation that made science productive was the melding of experiment and mathematics. Galileo wasn’t famous as the first person to do that for an obviously important problem: what we would today call acceleration of small objects in the gravitational field of a large object. (He did many other things, of course, but that was the crucial one)

    There is no a priori reason to think that mathematics should apply to moving bodies. Geometry describes something real (because it was developed in Egypt as rules of thumb to resolve boundary disputes) and astronomy describes something real, but astrology does not. All use mathematics. Why should mathematics apply to falling objects? No reason. It might or might not. Galileo experimented and found that it did.

    No other society on Earth suggested that physical reality be described by abstract mathematics, and systematically pursued the experimental / mathematical approach.

    IMHO, this is because the experimental / mathematical approach is largely a religious one. One has to prize truth with Platonic or Aristotelian intensity, even believe that it is a form of worshiping God (as composers considered their works in the 1700s), to work productively and honestly in the sciences. The pragmatic rewards are rather poor.

    This is why the sciences are becoming unproductive in the West and may not become productive in the East. The emphasis is on career advancement (pragmatic goal) rather than on increasing understanding (religious goal) or even on increasing capabilities (engineering goal). It’s also why China hit a dead end. It was very good at incremental improvement and ingenuity, but (pragmatically) the methods tended to treated as secrets (not published or otherwise disseminated), and were not supported by any theoretical understanding. Medieval guilds in the West were very similar — great achievements, little theory, great secrecy.) In China, that meant loss of knowledge as dynasties rose and fell, steppe tribes conquered China and also fell, governments supported and suppressed engineering projects. After a while, China was treading water — losing capabilities at about the same rate new capabilities were being discovered.

    Something similar happened in India, except that they were invaded by Muslims and never did quite shake off the foreign domination (unlike Spain, which freed itself during the Reconquista [1]). It eventually took the British to free India.

    This may happen to the West as well. Should science /engineering be seen as jobs in large organizations, then information hoarding and defense by pointing to procedures having been followed and other diffusion of responsibility techniques could render actual knowledge, curiosity, independent thinking, as hazardous to people with these attributes. Knowledge would be replaced by ritual. Perhaps half to two thirds of scientific papers in some fields would be non-replicable, and PC/SJW would start invading the engineering and even medical schools.

    Counterinsurgency

    1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconquista

    • Replies: @skeptic23
    , @Tsigantes
  320. anonymous[378] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mj

    You live under a rock and stoned?

    https://www.businessinsider.com/fiorina-widely-considered-the-worst-ceo/?r=AU&IR=T

    “””
    In an article about worst CEOs in USA Today in 2005, Yale business Professor Jeffrey Sonnenfeld said that Fiorina was “the worst because of her ruthless attack on the essence of this great company (HP). … She destroyed half the wealth of her investors and yet still earned almost $100 million in total payments for this destructive reign of terror.”

    Sonnenfeld also told us that, while Fiorina was at HP, “virtually everything she bought … has been shuttered or divested.” He pointed out — emphasis his — that “She has NEVER been offered another CEO position in the decade since.”
    “””

    • Replies: @res
    , @Mj
  321. @JoannF

    Think of contemporary politics as a secular religion, much like the “world will end on such and such a date” religious beliefs. If you are not a heretic, the religion tries to take care of you, give you friends, social structure, and end to fears. Contemporary politics does all that and gives you a career ladder as well and an income (even if the ladder is welfare payments). The group is seen as mildly insane by outsiders. People tend to be fanatically loyal to such a religion right up until the world does not end on such and such a date (even then, some continue to believe through several revised estimate of end-of-the-world).

    That’s what we face.

    Note that the adherents to this secular religion live in cities that no longer have a productive economic function, and are parasitic on their hinterlands (foreign and domestic). They have, in fact, sucked their hinterlands dry and must rely on importing foreigners to keep up their populations. The secular religion protects them from knowledge both of what the are doing and that their ability to continue doing it is nearing an end (nothing left to steal, essentially).
    This is very near to the Christian protection of believers from fear of death in function, but not in effectiveness. Note that enough fear has seeped through the secular religion that it’s believers (esp. presidential candidates) are starting to cover up near panic levels of fear with bravado.

    When the money runs out (as it almost did in AD 2008 for urban areas, and really did for rural areas throughout the West), the secular religion will vanish — but not before. And there will be a lot of splatter also.

    Counterinsurgency

    • Replies: @JoannF
  322. @PorkTastic

    cisco and Oracle where the Hindus have established a neo feudal lordships with a fixed hierarchy

    What do you expect? A good way to hide their incompetence, corruption, fraud. Once they take over an organisation they sure don’t want anyone else butting into their filthy business.

  323. tamo says:
    @Pincher Martin

    You are acting like a little kid engaging in temper tantrum because you can not get your way. You said ” These Chinese “technologies” as you call them, were not scientifically-based, as we understand science today. They were simply “products” that the Chinese had developed in an ad hoc fashion over the centuries. They had a literary background to their development, but they were NOT the equivalent of science and math that the Jesuits passed along to the Chinese. They were not deduced.So these technologies were not scientific. End of story. Anymore than the Polynesians traveling across the Pacific Ocean did so because of science.
    The development of the clock in Europe, however, was scientifically based. (As was astronomy and Western engineering.). That’s why they went somewhere with it while the Chinese went nowhere with their invention” .

    You are full of it.The scientific revolution in Europe contributed VERY LITTLE to the advancement of new technology due to the disconnect between nascent scientific theories and lack of accurate experimental devices. Yes , there were some new technologies contributed by scientists. But they were FEW AND FAR BETWEEN. So until the 19th century, MOST OF TECHNOLOGIES were improved on by TECHNICIANS and CRAFTSMEN by using the old-fashioned trial and error methods not by scientists.

    You said “In other cases, Needham exaggerates the inventions, taking for granted some literary description of what might be a technical feat, but for which there is no other evidence for it” “Needham was a scientist, but he was not an expert in the history of science in the West. You don’t get that knowledge just by being a Westerner. So his “transcurrent” and “fusion” points are at best questionable interpretations and, more likely, they’re just garbage”.

    For your information, Needham’s SCIENCE AND CIVILIZATION IN CHINA was chosen as one of the 100 BEST ENGLISH NON-FICTIONS of the 20th century by Random House.

    Knowing that Random House is a very reputable publisher. I don’t think it picked Needham’s book as one of the 100 best English non-fictions of the 20th century, if it thought Needham’s book was full of exaggerations and short of evidence backing up his claims.

    It’s obvious Random House did not agree with a THIRD-RATE AMATEUR like you.

    You said “The Chinese had nothing to do with the development of the clock in Europe. The escape mechanism was developed independently in Europe”

    According to historian Derek J. de Solla Price, the Chinese escapement SPREAD WEST and was the SOURCE for WESTERN ESCAPEMENT TECHNOLOGY.
    That means your claim that the European escapement mechanism was developed independently is pure bullshit.
    Without the CHINESE ESCAPEMENT MECHANISM that spread west, there would have been NO EUROPEAN MECHANICAL CLOCK in the first place, period.

    I said “Here are some of Chinese technologies that were transmitted to Europe in the 18th century by direct or indirect diffusion: deep drilling technologies for oil and gas ( China started using piped-in natural gas for lighting and heating in the 4th century BC), so-called Bessemer Steel Process, Siemens Steel process, watertight compartment, balanced rudder ( all these Chinese technologies were transmitted to Europe in the late 18th century and the 19th century)”.

    You said”Complete horseshit. I do like how you qualify it, though, by saying they may have been transmitted by “indirect diffusion,” which is another way of saying no one can trace the influence”.

    I say you are talking a lot of shit. Why don’t you read SCIENCE AND CIVILIZATION or THE GENIUS OF CHINA or THE EASTERN ORIGINS OF WESTERN CIVILIZATION, before making stupid accusations.

    You said “And you can go to the Palace Museum in the Forbidden City today to see how fascinated the elite Chinese were in the Ming and Qing dynasties by the clocks given to them by Europeans”

    That’s partially true. Also the Palace Museum keeps Chinese -made clocks too.

    I said “By the late 18th century, China-made mechanical clocks were as good as European ones at two-thirds of the cost.”

    You said “No, they weren’t.”

    I say you are dead wrong. Read CHINESE -MADE CLOCKS IN QING DYNASTY by David Chen.

    There were 3 centers of clock making in Qing dynasty. First, Palace ( Forbidden City ) clock making factory that was run by European Jesuits. Second, Guangzhou clock-making center. Third, there was Jiangsu clock making center’. The last two clock -making centers were run by Chinese clock makers. By the late 18th century, the Guangzhou clocks were as good as British ones at two thirds of the price.

    Yes, the Jesuits introduced European clock-making to China that by this time unfortunately forgot it’s own mechanical clock- making technology. But eventually Chinese clock-makers made excellent clocks themselves.

    You admitted you read only part of Needham’s book but none of THE GENIUS OF CHINA or THE EASTERN ORIGINS OF WESTERN CIVILIZATION. But you belittle Needham even though your knowledge about ancient and medieval technologies were almost ZILCH, You are NOTHING but an agenda -driven Eurocentric fanatic..
    .

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  324. Aft says:
    @res

    Compare and contrast:

  325. Aft says:
    @Bill

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/fiorina-widely-considered-the-worst-ceo

    while Fiorina was at HP, “virtually everything she bought … has been shuttered or divested.” He pointed out – emphasis his – that “She has NEVER been offered another CEO position in the decade since.”.

  326. Aft says:
    @res

    He writes well, very well.

    But the main conclusions (blacks have superior IQ because Scrabble, Asians bad because fake cherry picked statistics) are wrong no matter how good he is at selling them.

    • Agree: res
  327. @Alden

    Now we are on to useful exchanges. An apartment building in a growth area for each infant grandchild sounds like a great idea but it must of course depend on the tax régime you are stuck with. In Australia the one nice feature of income tax law that survives for those who want to provide income for under 18s without paying about 48 per cent in tax is the testamentary trust which requires of course prosperous family members to die leaving will trusts that used to be able, decades ago, to be effectively topped up inter vivos and could once have been multiplied beyond the number of junior issue (now one will can set up one trust for each beneficiary which still allows the bonus not available for inter vivos trusts that accumulation instead of distribution can ensure that, in effect, there is another low rate beneficiary – who can be be given capital tax free from tje accumulations). But that’s it! At least I can’t see a way of using apartments to provide the desired future security tax effectively**. So, what’s the relevant tax law in the US (and California)?
    **Actually I can see a tax effective solution once you have got the essential ingredient right, namely location in a growth area that criminal scum will never takeover, and that is for the children’s property to be mortgaged so that the interest reduces the net income below even our very low thresholds for under 18s property income. My imagination is being stimulated.
    The mortgage could be at suitably high rates of interest for 18 years and then be purchasable by the mortgagor (or Dad) for peanuts by prearranged option. Perhaps you have similar stratagems? Or don’t you need them?

    • Replies: @nymom
  328. @Hippopotamusdrome

    Yes, it is true. So were Egypt and the Hittites. So was the Mediterranean civilizations. Your reference of the “White” “nations” is a term you don’t even understand, much less comprehend/

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  329. @Alden

    Truth has that beautiful sound of a chorus or orchestra in harmony and synchronicity. You are correct in your assessments of the past, present, and future. Earlier on this thread and others, I have said the same points with examples and prescriptions. I have formulated a step by step plan for “Whites” [Indo-Europeans] to phase to an independent republic in North American, using the momentum of Blacks and Browns for their separate self-governing entities. It’s past time to separate on ethnic lines.

    My plan parallels an mechanical engineering project. Blessings upon you and your family.

  330. That’s right. China right up to the 20th century was still hidebound in the Confucian system of the Walled City, and ancient rites-all cut off from the world. The Elite actually saw themselves as a mirror of The Heavens, demigod like and therefor no change was motivated or even desired. Completely static.

    That of course has changed. In a Hegelian manner, one extreme-stasis-was countered by extreme lurching toward disassembly and dissolution, explosively, toward the rendezvous of a sort of perverted Enlightenment. The synthesis was Communism, the ultimate Deductive process: from the abstract principles and theories, to the manipulation of reality and the concrete to support abstractions aka “Truths”. This is secular religion, Atheistic Judaism….and its bastard offspring, Climate Change, Political Correctness, Feminism, et. al. All bastard Communism.

    Marxism, Communism were conceived for a GOAL, which was to affect power to the very few and provide a continual rationale and “cover” for nothing less than a reinvention and reinstatement of the Ancient Regime before 1812.

    Nietzsche held the state to be a monster, the coldest of monsters even, a lying monster spewing the most despicable lie that “the state is the people”. Nietzsche found that to be pure nonsense and an illusion. As long as individuals believe this lie, there will be no prosperity.

    But the state lies in all languages of good and evil; and whatever it says it lies; and whatever it has it has stolen. False is everything in it; with stolen teeth it bites, the biting one. False are even its bowels. Confusion of language of good and evil; this sign I give to you as the sign of the state. Truly, the will to death, indicates this sign! Truly, it beckons to the preachers of death! Many too many are born: for the superfluous ones was the state devised! See just how it entices them to it, the many-too-many! How it swallows and chews and re-chews them! “On earth there is nothing greater than I: it is I who am the regulating finger of God.” — thus roars the monster.

  331. @Malla

    Are you one those derrière-bruised pakis?

    • Replies: @Malla
  332. Aft says:
    @Adrian E.

    the hypothesis Chanda Chisala is advancing is worth investigating. At the moment, it seems to have little credibility since it is not backed up by evidence

    The income charts look a lot like the IQ charts.

    Case closed on this nonsense. (Leaving aside psychometricians have hundreds of millions of datapoints and no one has ever found any evidence of what this idiot CC is saying.)

    • Replies: @Alden
  333. @Fair Assessment

    Do you think Ron Unz would know the difference?

  334. @Anonymous

    Neither position reflects reality. Many high IQ graduates, whether in business, finance, or economics will slot right in the Jewish controlled financial empires and be part of the hive, and live in denial and spiritual poverty their entire lives. Others will sell their ass to such manufactured and cobbled tripe and excremental lies such as Climate Change, Racial Equality, Inc., and other Social Engineering and Systemic Lying Enterprises.

    Need some phony Guns-Are-A-Public-Health-Issue statistics and reverse engineered statistics? There will be an ample supply of top tier school prostitutes lining up for cash grants.

    And then some will find the character, nobility, and rectitude to swim CONTRA to the sewage flow of Western Civ.

  335. Arioch says:

    > The Virtue of Testing
    > One of the best things to happen to American society was the introduction of intelligence testing

    Interesting, that when testing was forced upon ex-Soviet education system after Perestroika – it got very controversial opinions.

    Testing might close some corruption avenues, as compared to traditional professor-and-student examinations. While opening other avenues, BTW.

    However it also shifted the focus from “understanding” to “memorizing”, from “explorer mind” to “employer mind”. Something very good for profession-oriented colleges. Less so for classic high-ed.

    Taxi cab driver should not be exploring the city, he should instantly start driving his client to any city street being named, and by sufficiently optimal route. However “nation leaders” are not driving over paved roads, they are assumed to find and pave new roads in wilderness.

    Stretching it to the limits, a person (or automaton) can just memorize correct answers to all the variations of test problems, without even knowing multiplication table. And that is inherent problem with tests, just like inherent human emotions are problem with professor-and-student examinations.

    You seem to think that it is generally all ok with testing framework, one just needs to invent some formula, taking DNA as an argument and spitting out some coefficient to multiply raw test results with. Maybe it is not so. Maybe those Asians as you describe them just point at the principal problem with testing itself, that “one of best things”.

  336. @Anonymous

    Funny that you talk about sports but the same exact thing can be applied to sports. Caste football has done extensive research into the issue and found that because blacks develop physically faster than white that they get more attention early on, which leads to even athletic whites being excluded or ignored for collegiate scholarships in football or basketball.

    The ideas presented here are not new or unique and can be applied to many situations. The reality is that races are not the same and have disparate physical and mental characteristics. There is nothing wrong with this and doesn’t mean you should not judge people on an individual level. All it means is that if you don’t take them into account then you’re not viewing the full picture.

  337. @Malla

    Raw meat that is revolted by curried hinds…

  338. @George

    I see Andrew Yang has you completely fooled. That is no doubt true because you have not paid close attention, beyond his scripted answers to interviews. It’s the small, unguarded and spontaneous moments when the screen parts, that you see who he and others simply ARE. For that you have to train your mind. An image or perception, i.e., raw data is nothing if it is not processed meaningfully and thought the “prism” of the mind. Understand? Entender? Verstehen?

    He is a NWO ZOB ventriloquist dummy. He is a virtual dumb terminal cyborg.

  339. Peter Frost says: • Website
    @tamo

    China had the world’s highest per capita income around the year 1000. There then followed a period of severe economic and demographic decline under the Mongols:

    Before the Mongol invasion, Chinese dynasties reported approximately 120 million inhabitants; after the conquest had been completed in 1279, the 1300 census reported roughly 60 million people.[52] This major decline is not necessarily due only to Mongol killings. Scholars such as Frederick W. Mote argue that the wide drop in numbers reflects an administrative failure to record rather than an actual decrease; others such as Timothy Brook argue that the Mongols created a system of enserfment among a huge portion of the Chinese populace, causing many to disappear from the census altogether; other historians including William McNeill and David Morgan consider that plague was the main factor behind the demographic decline during this period. In the 14th century China suffered additional depredations from epidemics of plague, estimated to have killed 25 million people, 30% of the population of China.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_China#Song,_Liao,_Jin,_and_Western_Xia_dynasties_(AD_960–1234)

    There was later a period of sluggish economic growth under the Manchus. In this, they were following the same policy of cultural isolationism as the Japanese. If you want to preserve your culture, you have to accept a lower rate of economic growth.

    If your position is true, the decline and relative stagnation from the 13th century onward never really happened. Is that your argument?

    As for the authors you cite, none of them is an economic historian. Pomeranz comes the closest, but his view is definitely a minority one. It was extensively reviewed and critiqued by Broadberry and Gupta:

    Contrary to the claims of Pomeranz, Parthasarathi, and other ‘world historians’, the prosperous parts of Asia between 1500 and 1800 look similar to the stagnating southern, central, and eastern parts of Europe rather than the developing north-western parts. In the advanced parts of India and China, grain wages were comparable to those in north-western Europe, but silver wages, which conferred purchasing power over tradable goods and services, were substantially lower. The high silver wages of north-western Europe were not simply a monetary phenomenon, but reflected high productivity in the tradable sector. The ‘great divergence’ between Europe and Asia was already well underway before 1800.

    http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.173.1165&rep=rep1&type=pdf

    As an aside, Chanda should be congratulated on this article. I don’t agree with some of his methodology (the ethnic makeup of professors reflects the applicant pool that existed twenty or thirty years earlier), but his general point is valid.

    • Replies: @tamo
    , @Chanda Chisala
  340. tamo says:
    @Alden

    Hey little girl, go back to the 9th grade and try to finish it, lol .

  341. @Malla

    Everybody, without exception, should be required to read Eric Hoffer’s books, starting with The True Believer. He was an inspiration to me, that got me out of the jewnivershitty in the 1970s and into the real world of working people who worked hard, hated collectivism, communism, welfare, and empty rhetoric. I was full of shit and my flaky ideas were laughed at and ridiculed. That is what I deserved from living a sheltered life. These men were quite different than the “suits” of downtown and the academy.

    I live in both worlds and wouldn’t have it any other way.

    “Every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket.”
    ― Eric Hoffer, The Temper of Our Time

    “An empty head is not really empty; it is stuffed with rubbish. Hence the difficulty of forcing anything into an empty head.”
    ― Eric Hoffer

    If you read Hoffer, please note this error: He uses the totally inclusive “All……”. That is not true. What is true and therefore more accurate, is to substitute “Typically…” or “In the great majority of cases……”

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Mj
  342. Tsigantes says:
    @Anonymous

    Frankly I am not sure what you are saying.
    All I can say is that in Europe IQ tests are neither requested nor required for university entrance and are never given in the school systems. IQ in Europe remains something of a suspect hobby subject without broad acceptance in the educational systems or among the general populace / opinion.

    This points to a markedly different understanding of what constitutes intelligence than in the United States. And a completely different approach to testing it. This is perhaps best illustrated by the famous Baccalaureate question in France. Apart from finishing exams in their general specialties, the final exam is sat by every student in the country at the same hour: a 4 hour philosophy essay is required answering one question, with a different question every year. Examples: Is all truth final? Is desire a sign of our own imperfection?

    In my experience high IQ guarantees nothing – it doesn’t guarantee intelligence, nor does it guarantee creativity / originality. These phenomena are much more elusive in origin.

    • Replies: @Counterinsurgency
  343. tamo says:
    @Pincher Martin

    In case. you really read the books, then you are the one who has a serious reading comprehensive problem. It looks like you learned nothing from reading them.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  344. Completely agree. “Religion” as you use it, means lack of critical thought, acceptance and swallowing while holding one’s nose, to use a metaphor.

    And it has resulted in this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gK_0Yo-0r08&feature=youtu.be

    • Replies: @Malla
  345. Poco says:
    @John M

    Incorrect. China is infected with western society.

  346. tamo says:
    @Hippopotamusdrome

    Retard, oh, you again !! I can see you dug up your favorite piece again from The Wealth of Nations.. Since you have a serious reading comprehensive problem, I ‘ll tell you one more time. What Adam was trying to tell you was that even though wealth gap in China was higher than Europe, China was richer than Europe. So my little boy, try to stuff the knowledge into your pea brain, lol !!!!

  347. Malla says:
    @Poupon Marx

    Wow. This Eric Hoffer guy is super honest and a realist. Thanks, I will check him out.

    • Replies: @Mj
  348. @tamo

    Adam Smith didn’t have to calculate per capita income. All he had to do was get general idea of Chinese economy vis a vis European economy.

    Knowing per capita income gives you a general idea of the Chinese economy vis a vis the European economy. And you were responding to a Peter Frost post which included a graph showing Western Europe’s per capita GDP diverging from China’s sometime between 1000 and 1500.

    • Replies: @tamo
  349. Malla says:
    @Poupon Marx

    Woaow. If only those evul nazis had won the war. Didn’t the Third Reich have a movement against degenerate Art. They knew what was coming, what was planned. They were trying to reverse the collapse but they were never allowed to.

    • Replies: @Poupon Marx
  350. anarchyst says:
    @Fair Assessment

    I couldn’t have said it better myself, although I do believe that Asians are a net positive in American society, not like our obsolete “farm machinery” that has been here for three-hundred years or so and still cannot make it.

    As to immigration, here is my take:

    [MORE]

    There used to be a time when just about ANY immigrant who set upon the shores of America was not only grateful, but willing to shed his “old world” ways and support his adopted country.

    He might have not known the language, and found some American customs and practices “strange”, but he fully embraced the idea that he could be an AMERICAN. He not only embraced the American ideal, but made damn sure that his children fully appreciated the land in which they were born.

    Contrast that to today’s immigrant, who is only concerned about one thing–American dollars.

    Today’s immigrants care not about the founding principles of this country, the Constitutional principles in which our rights are endowed by our Creator, that our “rights” are not granted by government, and that the most important thing about being an American is the sense of freedom that he doesn’t want for himself or his offspring.

    Today’s immigrant brings his “old-world” customs and squabbles here, demanding that native-born Americans kowtow to him and change THEIR ways to accommodate his “old-world” ways.

    His children are not encouraged to become Americans and fully assimilate, but are required to maintain their “old-world” customs and ways, even if they run counter to American customs and mores.

    These old-world customs and ways quite often are criminal in nature, and do nothing to endear him to native-born Americans. He just does not want to assimilate.

    Another aspect of immigrants’ despicable behavior is that of “gaming the system”.

    Quite often, immigrants open party and liquor stores and than run an “EBT card” scam, paying cash (50 cents on the dollar) while raking in the profits.

    When they are caught, they feign “language difficulties” and quite often, get away with light punishment (if any) for their scams against the America taxpayers. Such scams are rampant across the USA.

    Just recently, in the Detroit area, there was a great hue and cry by liberal types over the proposed deportation of Iraqi criminals.

    Although the crimes were committed when they first immigrated to the USA, and they lived “exemplary lives” (yeah, right) after, their crimes were finally catching up with them.

    Many of today’s immigrants do not deserve to be here and should go back to where they came from.

    Regards,

  351. @tamo

    Alden, if you HAD READ WHAT SHE WROTE, referenced “My husband”. This is a red flag and your pants are sagging sufficiently and swinging from side to side when you walk. The jokes and the yokes are on you. She is out of your league, Little-no make that Tiny-League.

    • Replies: @tamo
  352. @tamo

    In case. you really read the books, then you are the one who has a serious reading comprehensive problem. It looks like you learned nothing from reading them.

    Pomeranz’s book is genuinely interesting and scholarly. It’s worth reading. But he’s still wrong about the recent history of the world economy, which is not too surprising since he’s NOT an economist who has been trained to make quantitative judgments about economic matters.

    Frank’s book is an abomination.

    • Replies: @tamo
  353. Malla says:
    @tamo

    The medieval Europeans never built anything like that.

    The Lincoln Cathedral was the first building ever built by man that was taller than the pyramids of Egypt. So no ancient Greeks or Cambodians built a taller building than that in that age however awesome their buildings were in other aspects. Medieval Englishmen made them.

    • Replies: @tamo
  354. @Alden

    It is amazing, perhaps one of the most amazing feats mankind has ever accomplished. I just can’t imagine jumping into bunch of outriggers and heading out into the vastness off the Pacific to find those specks of land thousands of miles away from their departure points.

    • Replies: @Alden
  355. @anonymous

    They’re not Chinese, if that’s what you’re trying to get at.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  356. @Pincher Martin

    With tykes like Tamo, you are dealing with a young person having very little background knowledge or context of the general field in the specific area of discussion. Colloquially, it can be expressed as, “You just ain’t been around that much, kid”. One book, one source-or maybe two-now serves as a springboard and foundation for interpreting the World, past, present, and future. It’s a common mistake-I know having been young and stupid (pardon the redundancy) at one time in my life. Thank Higher Power that I was not destined to remain in that stasis and status.

    The “tell” is very obvious. He is in full parrot mode and flushed and flustered that you have his thesis has become a metaphor of Swiss Cheese and bubble bath. Hard knocks are part of growing up.

  357. Alden says:
    @tamo

    Ignorant moron. Europeans and the entire literate world used those page size reversed carved stamps for centuries more for posters stamps for centuries and centuries. Gutenberg, not the Chinese invented the printing press. The Chinese kept the page sized reverse stamp for posters and pictures. The Chinese took centuries to use a real printing press.

    Page sized reversed carved stamps just like every other literate country in the world.

    And just what useful thing have you done in the world? I know who you are moron, a typical perpetual grad student TA assistant temporary part time Hate Whitey teacher 6 hours a week in podunk community college living with 8 other marginal alleged academics in a 2 bed room apartment.

    You’re probably White and just can’t figure out that affirmative action has given all the academic jobs to POCs and no matter how much you preach anti White politics you’ll never get a decent job in academia because you’re White.

    And again, if China’s so great why are they swarming out and why have they been doing that for the last 3,000 years?

    • Replies: @anon
    , @anonymous
  358. MarkinLA says:
    @Alden

    There was an old documentary about some Hawaiian who found one of the last of the Polynesian navigators and asked him to teach him. They built an ocean going outrigger and made a final voyage to test him. They used not only the stars but the wind direction at various times of the year and the ripples of the waves and how islands affect the ripples.

    From the air it is easy to see how an island affects the waves and the complex formations when there is multiple waves. The Polynesians learned how to read these disturbances in the wave pattern.

    • Replies: @Alden
  359. @Malla

    Yes, to all of the above. “Modern Art” was a Jewish, Frankfurt School concoction to reduce and degrade Western Man’s sense, sensibility, and ethos. It made meaninglessness seem real and acceptable. Once a person is corrupted on one issue or phenomenon, the rest to come or advocate by your enemy or adversary are easier and easier to overcome. That’s how pimps condition their prostitutes, resetting their threshold of acceptability and acceptance.

    George Washington said:

    [MORE]

    The unity of government which constitutes you one people is also now dear to you. It is justly so, for it is a main pillar in the edifice of your real independence, the support of your tranquility at home, your peace abroad; of your safety; of your prosperity; of that very liberty which you so highly prize. But as it is easy to foresee that, from different causes and from different quarters, much pains will be taken, many artifices employed to weaken in your minds the conviction of this truth; as this is the point in your political fortress against which the batteries of internal and external enemies will be most constantly and actively (though often covertly and insidiously) directed, it is of infinite moment that you should properly estimate the immense value of your national union to your collective and individual happiness; that you should cherish a cordial, habitual, and immovable attachment to it; accustoming yourselves to think and speak of it as of the palladium of your political safety and prosperity; watching for its preservation with jealous anxiety; discountenancing whatever may suggest even a suspicion that it can in any event be abandoned; and indignantly frowning upon the first dawning of every attempt to alienate any portion of our country from the rest, or to enfeeble the sacred ties which now link together the various parts.

    And concerning foreign influences:

    nothing is more essential than that permanent, inveterate antipathies against particular nations, and passionate attachments for others, should be excluded; and that, in place of them, just and amicable feelings towards all should be cultivated. The nation which indulges towards another a habitual hatred or a habitual fondness is in some degree a slave. It is a slave to its animosity or to its affection, either of which is sufficient to lead it astray from its duty and its interest. Antipathy in one nation against another disposes each more readily to offer insult and injury, to lay hold of slight causes of umbrage, and to be haughty and intractable, when accidental or trifling occasions of dispute occur. Hence, frequent collisions, obstinate, envenomed, and bloody contests. The nation, prompted by ill-will and resentment, sometimes impels to war the government, contrary to the best calculations of policy. The government sometimes participates in the national propensity, and adopts through passion what reason would reject; at other times it makes the animosity of the nation subservient to projects of hostility instigated by pride, ambition, and other sinister and pernicious motives. The peace often, sometimes perhaps the liberty, of nations, has been the victim.

    So likewise, a passionate attachment of one nation for another produces a variety of evils. Sympathy for the favorite nation, facilitating the illusion of an imaginary common interest in cases where no real common interest exists, and infusing into one the enmities of the other, betrays the former into a participation in the quarrels and wars of the latter without adequate inducement or justification. It leads also to concessions to the favorite nation of privileges denied to others which is apt doubly to injure the nation making the concessions; by unnecessarily parting with what ought to have been retained, and by exciting jealousy, ill-will, and a disposition to retaliate, in the parties from whom equal privileges are withheld. And it gives to ambitious, corrupted, or deluded citizens (who devote themselves to the favorite nation), facility to betray or sacrifice the interests of their own country, without odium, sometimes even with popularity; gilding, with the appearances of a virtuous sense of obligation, a commendable deference for public opinion, or a laudable zeal for public good, the base or foolish compliances of ambition, corruption, or infatuation.

    As avenues to foreign influence in innumerable ways, such attachments are particularly alarming to the truly enlightened and independent patriot. How many opportunities do they afford to tamper with domestic factions, to practice the arts of seduction, to mislead public opinion, to influence or awe the public councils. Such an attachment of a small or weak towards a great and powerful nation dooms the former to be the satellite of the latter.

    Well, we were warned, were we not? We did not listen or heed. And today? We have many jiving and yammering and yapping, talking but saying close to nothing.

    • Replies: @Malla
  360. MarkinLA says:
    @Poupon Marx

    Why aren’t the Minoans and Hittites considered “white”. I beleieve the Hittite language is part of the same family as other European languages?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hittite_language

  361. Alden says:
    @Aft

    Here’s something extremely important about Asian household income that people who’ve never lived in an American town full of Chinese and other Asians and immigrants in general of every race and ethnicity.

    Being Californian Ron should know this. His home, Santa Clara County is an example of Chinese Asian and immigrant households.

    Asians live in very crowded households until the 3rd or 4th generation. Asian households, 10 to 25 people in 3 bedroom houses or apartments have many many more working adults than White black or Hispanic households.

    15 indentured servant sweat shop or restaurant employees paying $300 a month rent can pay $4,500 a month rent. How many married couples or 3 roommates in a 3 bedroom house can pay that?

    The idiot economists who rely on Asian household income either don’t know or refuse to acknowledge the fact that whereas the average American household has one or two wage earners Asian households can have as many as 10, 15 or more. It’s acceptable for some moron academic in the prairies of Ames Iowa or Lincoln Nebraska to assume Asians live like Americans. But coastal academics should know better.

    And every Asian immigrant household has around $ 1,800 a month coming from the SSI benefit given to 2 alleged over 65 alleged relative whose never worked a day under social security in their lives drawing the same social security amount as Americans who’ve put in 40 years of social security

    Why do you think Asian immigrants being in all those alleged elderly alleged relatives in under family unification? It’s to get the SSI benefit issued to every 65 year old immigrant whose never worked in the US. And whose to say they’re really 65? China is totally corrupt and fake ID is easily obtainable. Or I should say authentic ID with fraudulent DOB

    Chime doesn’t want the burden of supporting a pension and old age system. So China with the eager cooperation of the entire Chinese community is shipping or dumping its aged and elderly who never contributed a dime on American SSI and Medicare medi cail

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  362. @Bruno

    No where is the east Asian ethnic nepotism close to that practiced by the Hindu. The Hindu comes from a land of myriad jatis and castes. It’s much more a dog eat dog my caste or nothing kind of an environment which fosters a very collectivist mindset. Not very different from those of the jews who have had to endure and survive as minorities everywhere since about 2000 years. Ron unz has a lot of articles where he decimated the myth of extra ordinary Jewish IQ.

    I used to be part of the tech industry but the atmosphere got so toxic on most companies with Jewish upper management and Hindu middle management that I saw no scope of cutting through without becoming like them. We used to have a high trust you environment in tech before the dot Com bubble but it’s all gone. Part of it is due to the heavy influx of people from such low trust cultures and the resulting exodus of whites

    • Replies: @Bruno
    , @Malla
  363. annamaria says:

    The politically correct Chanda opens his/her oeuvre by quotinga certain female, thus implying that this very special female is the paragon of inventiveness and intelligence. Only ignorance of facts can explain Chanda’s enthusiasm towards Carly Fiorina: https://www.businessinsider.com/fiorina-widely-considered-the-worst-ceo.

    her biggest business achievement, CEO of Hewlett-Packard, is widely regarded as a disaster. … Fiorina was “the worst because of her ruthless attack on the essence of this great company. … She destroyed half the wealth of her investors and yet still earned almost $100 million in total payments for this destructive reign of terror.”

    Yes. That’s a sign of great inventiveness — to relieve great numbres of people of their money and jobs and still be praised by the politically correct ‘analysts.’

  364. res says:
    @anonymous

    As I said in my original comment. No need to speculate. From one of his earlier posts: http://www.unz.com/article/a-troublesome-intelligence

    The author, originally from Zambia, was a Visiting Scholar to the Hoover Institution and a John S. Knight Fellow at Stanford University. He can be reached at [email protected].

    And the link I gave in my original comment: https://jsk.stanford.edu/fellows/class-of-2009/chanda-chisala/

    Regarding your surname argument, that 2010 census list only contains names which occur 100 times or more (it is good to try to understand a data source before using it in an argument). https://www.census.gov/topics/population/genealogy/data/2010_surnames.html
    According to the Excel version of the list other names account for 29 million people–about 1 in 10 in the US. Now that is a long tail! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_tail

    According to this site there are 8 people with the surname Chisala in the US: https://forebears.io/surnames/chisala

    • Replies: @anonymous
  365. Alden says:
    @MarkinLA

    I read the same books about Polynesian navigators you did. Stars wind water they were amazing.

  366. res says:
    @anonymous

    I think you need to take your sarcasm detector in for a tuneup.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  367. Alden says:
    @Poupon Marx

    Thank you. We’ve been very lucky. It helped that we realized the purpose of affirmative action very early on and took steps to protect ourselves and our descendants from it.
    Hate those who hate us was our motto.

  368. @tamo

    You are full of it.The scientific revolution in Europe contributed VERY LITTLE to the advancement of new technology due to the disconnect between nascent scientific theories and lack of accurate experimental devices. Yes , there were some new technologies contributed by scientists. But they were FEW AND FAR BETWEEN. So until the 19th century, MOST OF TECHNOLOGIES were improved on by TECHNICIANS and CRAFTSMEN by using the old-fashioned trial and error methods not by scientists.

    That’s it, Tamo, keep bluffing when you really don’t know anything about the Scientific Revolution. Keep bluffing even after I named some of the scientists in the early part of the Scientific Revolution who improved technologies with the specific aim of helping their scientific activities.

    For your information, Needham’s SCIENCE AND CIVILIZATION IN CHINA was chosen as one of the 100 BEST ENGLISH NON-FICTIONS of the 20th century by Random House.

    It’s a great work, and Needham was a genuinely brilliant man. But he was also a man with a thesis in search of evidence, and that sometimes affected his judgment. Even before Needham arrived in China, even before he had any evidence to support his book, he had already decided what his book would be about. So his credulity on such matters strained the evidence.

    Knowing that Random House is a very reputable publisher. I don’t think it picked Needham’s book as one of the 100 best English non-fictions of the 20th century, if it thought Needham’s book was full of exaggerations and short of evidence backing up his claims.

    Have you even read any of the other books on that list? The histories and science books are, with few exceptions, almost all outdated. Barbara Tuchman’s The Guns of August? Stephen Jay Gould’s The Mismeasure of Man? The Age of Jackson by Kennedy hack Arthur Schlesinger Jr.? The Affluent Society by pseudo-economist John Kenneth Galbraith?

    Random House’s editorial board didn’t pick these books because their views were correct, but because they were fashionable and broadly representative of what literate people were reading during the century.

    Having said that, Needham’s encyclopedic work is genuinely great. But even great works can overstate the evidence, and Needham’s did.

    I say you are talking a lot of shit. Why don’t you read SCIENCE AND CIVILIZATION or THE GENIUS OF CHINA or THE EASTERN ORIGINS OF WESTERN CIVILIZATION, before making stupid accusations.

    You DO have a reading comprehension problem. As I told you earlier, I’ve already read both Needham and Temple. (Temple’s book is nothing more than a popularized one-volume version of Needham’s more encyclopedic work, published in the mid-eighties to coincide with Queen Elizabeth visiting China for the first time. Needham oversaw Temple’s book.)

    With such a reading comprehension problem, Tamo, can we really trust you to report accurately on any of these books you’ve read?

    I say you are dead wrong. Read CHINESE -MADE CLOCKS IN QING DYNASTY by David Chen.

    I guess I’ll have to, because I can’t really rely on you to report on its contents accurately, can I?

    You admitted you read only part of Needham’s book…

    You also have only read part of Needham’s book. How do I know this? Because no one has read it all, except for perhaps a handful of scholars. One can read an abridged version, of course, but the full work is an ongoing encyclopedia making up a couple of dozen volumes.

    But you belittle Needham even though your knowledge about ancient and medieval technologies were almost ZILCH, You are NOTHING but an agenda -driven Eurocentric fanatic.

    I don’t belittle Needham. I think he’s a fascinating man who made a great work of ongoing importance.

    I just feel sorry for Needham that he only has you to be his champion here. Frankly, he deserves better.

    • Agree: Alden
    • Replies: @res
    , @tamo
  369. res says:
    @Aft

    Not sure how much I trust an “estimated distribution” plot. I see that plot at http://ephblog.com/2017/04/04/asian-versus-black-sat-scores/
    The primary data source is the common data set which is a dead link, but is available at https://web.archive.org/web/20180918161706/https://provost.williams.edu/files/williams_cds_1617.pdf
    I see no explicit SAT data by race there.

    Do you have any data supporting that plot? At minimum I would expect the right tail of the African-American distribution to be fatter. Also unsure about the relative means (any idea how they were calculated?). This research indicates African-Americans get a boost of about 230 SAT points over whites in admissions with Asians getting a penalty of about 50 points.
    https://www.princeton.edu/~tje/files/files/webAdmission%20Preferences%20Espenshade%20Chung%20Walling%20Dec%202004.pdf

    For some real data on SAT scores by race see Figures 18-21 of https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/j.2333-8504.2002.tb01871.x

  370. Mj says:
    @anonymous

    Touchy, touchy.

    I thought the sarcasm was apparent in my comment.

    Also, I don’t live under a rock. And I only get stoned on Jesus 🤣.

  371. annamaria says:

    Samples from Chanda Chisala article:

    Statement No 1:

    the real problem with Harvard is not that they effectively discriminate against East Asian applicants, but rather that they do not do enough of it.

    Statement No 2:

    I do not believe diversity should ever be the goal of any rational institution or society

    It seems that Chanda’s beliefs and opinions are safely separated from both the logic and intellectual honesty.

    But the most interesting aspect of this supposedly high-brow article is the total omission of comparative data on the ethnicity of researchers that produce high-quality scientific publications. The data was obviously so unnerving for Chanda, and so inconvenient for his/her belief that Asians cannot be inventive and creative, that this crucially important marker – the number of scientific publications by Asians as compared, for example, to high-quality scientific publications by Africans – was completely eliminated by the ideology-armed Chisala.

    Chanda Chisala abhors evidence when the evidence does not fit his/her ideology.

    From here, one is led to a relevant Q: Has Chanda Chisala ever bothered to read about Chinese civilization? Do the age and achievements of Chinse civilization compare unfavorably with the civilization to which the author belongs ethnically/racially? https://chandachisala.wordpress.com/about/

    The whole article reads like an expression of irritation by a ‘discriminated’ person towards a superior group.

  372. @Tsigantes

    In my experience high IQ guarantees nothing – it doesn’t guarantee intelligence, nor does it guarantee creativity / originality. These phenomena are much more elusive in origin.

    Right. High cognitive ability (measured by IQ) guarantees nothing. It’s the low cognitive ability that guarantees something, and that something is disability. Under about IQ 80 people can’t be economically productive in an industrialized society, and in practice under IQ 85 people have trouble holding down jobs. It’s just as much a disqualification as being a quadriplegic disables people from being carpenters.

    So think of the US tests with high g loading as disqualifying rather than qualifying, and you see why they are used.

    As the article points out, the high g loading tests assume that g measured at one point in time is predictive of mature professional g. Evidence in the base article and associated comment stream suggest that the association is present, but perhaps not as strong, as was assumed. It’s a problem with any classification system or logical system: it can be falsified at any time by counter examples.

    Western society just now is still in shock from WW II, essentially hiding under the bed from its own creation of industrial warfare and area weapons capable of destroying all urban areas. The shock has been reinforced by the loss of economically productive function for urban areas due to cheap flexible transport (the Interstate system in the US) and cargo containerization, which together moved light manufacturing and transshipment of goods out of urban areas, and appears to have prevented any remedy for this loss of urban income stream saving only parasitic taxes on non-urban areas. Western society does not want change for its European descended population, it wants peace for this generation, and is quite prepared to give up on the future in exchange (first example: British before Churchill’s rule, and afterwards). It is also quite willing to sacrifice lower income parts of the European diaspora to get this peace (e.g. abandonment of African settlers post WW II).

    That being the case, _of course_ non-creative / intelligent/ conformist people are preferred for the professions. Why the stasis [1] in the West after c.a. 1970? Why do you think that women are preferred for the professions, which they generally find quite unfulfilling? Why add patronage jobs to the bureaucracy? Why _not_ add yet another group of people known for their belief in the primacy of social order?

    But even the Western upper classes can’t hide under the bed forever. In real life, the metaphorical bed vanishes and so does the house, and the survivors cobble together something, the process [2] later to be known by historians as “those fortunate events that led to our present dominance”.

    Counterinsurgency

    2] “The Bronze Age Collapse”
    _The Human Journey_, cited 2019/09/18
    https://www.humanjourney.us/ideas-that-shaped-our-modern-world-section/the-bronze-age-collapse/

    Or for two later examples, the 30 Years War and the Napoleonic Wars, both arguably worse than WW I and WW II realative to their societies.
    We are living in the aftermath (or perhaps the later stages) of an attempted re-invention of Western society that started with Nietzsche, who predicted that the reorganization would be complete c.a. AD 2100, and that the later stages (post AD 2000) would have a much higher casualty rate than the early stages (AD 1900 – AD 2000) because belief in a common humanity would be lost after about AD 2000. He was off by about 8 years on the AD 2000 prediction, Obama’s administration emphasizing that there is no common humanity, no set of rules applicable to all H. Sapiens, by its support of the “abolish whiteness” campaign.

    Q: So why am I saying this?
    A: I don’t like seeing people being potted as sitting ducks. I’ve seen it happen too often It’s not respectful of their basic humanity.

  373. @tamo

    Also before the Industrial Revolution the technologically backward Europeans directly or indirectly copied a lot of things from China and Islamic civilization

    It’s called “cultural diffusion” [1], and its universal, both ways.

    Counterinsurgency

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-cultural_diffusion

  374. @Hippopotamusdrome

    That’s a very provocative proposal… backed up by what exactly?

    Or do you blurt out whatever comes to your mind?

    Your emphasis on “discovered” in “rediscovered the bridge” is hardly convincing evidence that Anji Bridge was built circa 1938. LOL

    Are you a low impulse control negro or high Jewish verbal dexterity and dissembling twat?

    FYI, the Anji Bridge is a fine example of what is usually referred to in China as a “hong qiao” 虹桥 or “rainbow bridge.” And these rainbow bridges have been recorded in Chinese literature and paintings that predate 1938 by many hundreds of years.

    Here’s the Qing Court version of the Anji Bridge from 1736.

    [MORE]

    Introduction

    Zhaozhou Bridge, also known as the Anji Bridge, is a stone arch bridge in Zhao County, Hebei Province. It is billed as “big stone bridge” by the local folks in order to distinguish from the “small stone bridge” nearby. Anji Bridge started its construction in Sui Dynasty (581-619AD) under the supervision of prominent craftsman Li Chun, and was completed in 605AD. It has undergone several renovations during Tang Dynasty, Song Dynasty, Ming Dynasty and Qing Dynasty. The bridge had been severely damaged in late Qing Dynasty, renovations from 1952 to 1956 were widely criticized by society for the renovation changed its essential appearance and structure. Anji Bridge, however, still is the oldest standing bridge and the oldest open-spandrel stone bridge in the world.

    Record of Anji Bridge in Ancient Literature

    From Tang dynasty to Ming dynasty, Anji Bridge is often seen in documents. Among all, the most notable is the Zhaozhou Bridge Inscription written by Zhang Jiazhen on demands of Emperor Xuanzong of Tang(713-741AD). Zhaozhou Bridge Inscription makes an elaborate description.

    In Ming dynasty (1567AD), scholar Zhang Jujing wrote The Renovation of Big Stone Bridge which recorded the renovation of Zhaozhou Bridge after a fire stroke. The cause of this fire is because a ship carrying coal rested under the bridge, soon the fire spread out the crevices which nearly destroyed the bridge. In the year of 1563, the renovation began, the task was completed in the winter of 1597. People review this renovation as “marvelous spandrel beams revives, renovation equals restoration.”

    Source: Anji Bridge: A Breakthrough in Bridge Construction by AIMIR CG

    While the 7th century bridge Anji Bridge was likened to “a new moon rising above the clouds, a long rainbow drinking from a mountain stream” by a Tang [or Ming?] period writer, other bridges in North China also were usually referred to as hong qiao 虹桥 or “rainbow bridges.” As in the past, the term “rainbow bridge” continues today to be used in China rather loosely to describe bridges that—by the stretch of anyone’s imagination—hardly soar, let alone have a rising arc, or even are multicolored. Moreover, the term hong qiao remains today as part of numerous place names that might once have been at a bridgehead, but today are mere relict names that have lingered long after whatever bridges were there disappeared.

    No bridge carrying the label “rainbow bridge” is better known than the one appearing as the visual center of the Qingming shanghe tu [Along the River during the Qingming Festival], a handscroll once thought lost and one that has had many subsequent versions—the earliest example of which is attributed to Zhang Zeduan. Until the middle of the twentieth century, all of the known representations of the rainbow bridge in various versions of the Qingming shanghe tu were obviously built of stone, some more elegant than others. The best known and regularly exhibited 18th century handscroll, one of seven in the National Palace Museum’s collection in Taipei, a version that is both colorful and quite detailed.

    Source: Discovering China’s ‘Forgotten’ Bridges’ by Ronald G. Knapp

    • Replies: @d dan
    , @Hippopotamusdrome
  375. res says:
    @Pincher Martin

    Now that was an epic takedown.

    Can you recommend an abridgement of Needham? Does Temple’s book serve for that or is there something better? Are there any more balanced views on the topic?

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  376. @attilathehen

    All Asians and all hostile Jews should be expelled. That’d be like 80% of Jews.

  377. @niteranger

    If this keeps up they will beat us at everything and then you can tell us how lack of creativity and their lack of leadership will doom them.

    And it might, a few hundred years in the future, when yet another decayed dynasty fails.

    Counterinsurgency

  378. tamo says:
    @Peter Frost

    You said “As for the authors you cite, none of them is an economic historian. Pomeranz comes the closest,”.

    You are wrong again. I mentioned Andre Gunder Frank as an economic historian. Here is what Wihipedia says about Andre Gunder Frank who wrote ReORIENT.

    “Andre Gunder Frank (February 24, 1929 – April 23, 2005) was a German-American sociologist and ECONOMIC HISTORIAN who promoted dependency theory after 1970 and world-systems theory after 1984”.

    Andre Gunder Frank, Bin Wong, Kenneth Pomeranz are so-called Cakifornia School revisionists. who scholarly engage in the re-interpretation of the historical record. It usually means challenging the established, accepted or traditional views held by other scholars about a historical event, introducing contrary evidence, or reinterpreting the motivations and decisions of the people involved. The revision of the historical record can reflect new discoveries of fact, evidence, and interpretation, which then ends up revising history. In dramatic cases, revisionism involves a reversal of older judgment’.

    I know you are a typical eurocentric person who still believes in the old outdated ideas. I’m going to summarize Pomeranz’s view on the pre-modern Chinese economy.

    When we think about the kind of trade taking place across the world in the 1600s and 1700s, and we recognize that Chinese finished goods are going to Europe in return for Western silver, this shouldn’t be too great a surprise, if we go back to the Song dynasty that had a real vibrant commercial economy.

    The improvement of agricultural technologies to raise the yields of rice and other grains and crops and there was the development of transportation technologies to take advantage of river transport and also using sophisticated metallurgical technologies to increase iron and steel production. that Europe couldn’t match until the coming of the Industrial Revolution. Those developments started much earlier in China than they did anywhere else in the world. So in the year 1100, the most developed economy in the world was certainly in Song China. That remained in place for several centuries. Eurasian economies grew and contracted but in essence, the Chinese economy remained a very productive economy for the following 500 years so that when trade started to take place between China and Europe, fueled by the American silver that the Europeans were bringing to China, it was not surprising that the Chinese economy was a very productive economy

    When we compare food supply per capita between China’s Lower Yangzi delta and England, the most developed area of Europe at the time, it is roughly comparable. Cloth production per capita would again be very close. And those were the two most important sectors of the economy: food and textiles. They were the two largest sectors. Wages seem to be roughly comparable, though it’s a little bit deceptive because in England what we’re talking about as we get towards the end of the eighteenth century is really wages.

    In the urban areas of England, workers get payed in cash. This was pretty much true in the cities in China. But the Chinese farmers who owned their own a farm and had a loom in the house where the wife or wife and daughter worked. So it’s earnings from their own self-employment compared to English wages seemed to be pretty comparable. I think Pomeranz did a good job of giving us an excellent overview of the pre-modern Chinese economy.

    • Replies: @Alden
    , @Peter Frost
  379. @Alden

    Right on the money. Whites were destroyed by the World War era followed by the MAD based Cold War, and decided on stability at the expense of stasis [1] or even a stasis gradually lost by their side. Think of a ruler child crying “Moma! Moma!” in the cold dark.

    It is said that if you want to help an elephant to stand up, you should be very sure that the elephant does not want to lie down.

    Counterinsurgency

    1] “Stasis” meaning “stalemated civil war”

  380. Malla says:
    @Poupon Marx

    Wow, those Washington quotes are great. Thanks.

    Well, we were warned, were we not?

    Washington’s quotes did not appear on MTV. So for a large chunk of the population, they were not warned.

    • LOL: Poupon Marx
  381. tamo says:
    @Pincher Martin

    I already replied to that using Paul Bairoch’s figures.

  382. nymom says:

    Wow this post is getting so many comments I am having problems replying to one before I find another one more interesting…

    I just wanted to say I saw one flash before my eyes which represented Jews as being so successful in every society they are in (and I think objectively speaking even the people here who dislike Jews have to admit they have been very successful over the ages in every society they have lived in) is not due to high IQ but due to Jews being outliers and not being allowed into established industries. In essence every country Jews have entered in order to survive they have had to create their own ‘success’. It seems many countries did not allow Jews to legally own property or do other ordinary things most citizens do to make money…

    Many run-on sentences here I know.

    To continue: I think these private banking entities Jews informally set up (which led to real banks eventually), working in gold/silver etc., or trading/creating luxury clothing items all function as these sorts of informal small businesses which allowed Jews to attain the successes they did…

    Now, I hate myself for saying this, but why didn’t other groups do this as well…For instance, why weren’t the Gypsies, who we now know migrated westward from India to various part of Europe able to exploit that same outlier status as Jews. They were skilled in working metal (I think they were some sort of expelled warrior caste from India and made their own weapons at one time) and should today occupy a similar status to Jews in our society, yet it is just to opposite.

    So even though the outlier status seems reasonable as an explanation, I still think we might have to look at IQ differences between groups to explain certain outcomes and I really hate that since I am a really big fan of India. Their love of animals, that whole vegetarian thing, I could really see India as a place to relocate to if the US ever came under serious attack (assuming I could get in)…but I just can’t get away from that glaring fact of the difference in Jews and Gypsies status in the world and the why of it all…

  383. Alden says:
    @Pincher Martin

    Supposedly the first Hawaiians came from 5,000 miles away. I forget from where.

  384. tamo says:
    @Poupon Marx

    You sound like a real low class butthole from the HOOD,lol. Both you and dribbling Alden belong to a micro-league that you need a microscope to find., lol.

    • Replies: @Poupon Marx
  385. Pheasant [AKA "anonymous214"] says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    ‘If the Chinese can’t innovate, why in the bloody hell are we, the USA waging an economic war trying to stop it?’

    China steal tens of billions of dollars in technology form the U.S alone. They have dedicated themselves to intellectual property theft.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @anonymous
  386. tamo says:
    @Pincher Martin

    You just don’t like these outstanding scholars because they don’t conform to your outdated eurocentric bullshit.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  387. Pheasant [AKA "anonymous212"] says:
    @tamo

    Is this your only response? Well now we know you are full of it.

    I can understand all of the resentment coming at Whites from Africans, Arabs etc. But to see the Chinese (the people with the longest history of continual civilisation in history) indulging in this sort of spite is amazing.

    Just goes to show there are no good ones.

    • Replies: @Malla
  388. @anonymous

    OHHH but you’re so smart aren’t ya! You’re so intelligent to quote some supposed study with DNA but you can’t see it’s just a rationalization for further white dispossession anyway, which I assume you benefit from.
    It is so absurd and silly to say, bbbbbut muh haplogroup of some creature that was unearthed in a bog somewhere (And who knows if that’s even accurate and not Jewish-run Nat Geo propaganda). Everyone in the world in 1960 knew this was a white nation. Whites were dispossessed by Jews from Eastern Europe who poured in the country in 1880. We are waking up.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  389. See the following:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=990052wQywM&frags=pl%2Cwn

    You can, from here explore further other YouTube videos detailing the Proto/Indo-European saga.

    At around the 30 minute mark, you see around 6K years ago various groups mixing.
    At ~ 35 minutes, the 2 great migrations into present day Europe happened. From East to West. Today the great majority of European DNA is made up of this genetic material, not the original hunter-gathers that were there. That DNA has all but disappeared,

    Subsequent DNA sampling of North Africans reveals that they are Indo-European in DNA. That means the civilizations of Carthage and the ancient Pharaohs. Sub-Saharan DNA is NOT. It is African and contains no admixture of Indo-European.

    The Hittites were so advance as a civilization for their time that I am stupendously amazed. That can be checked on by anyone reading this. Their hydraulic (water) technology is amazing, even by today’s standards.

    What it comes down to is this, for purposes of marriage and breeding: if you find someone at your level of intelligence, temperament, values, and general quality from the Indo-European family, or East Asian, do not automatically reject that person. Look at their background, their family, their “caste” and values. A match is a match. I’m not specifically advocating for a-for example Northern Europeans-to intermarry Eurasians or Asians or Middle Easterns. My extended family, friends, and acquaintances reveal success, compatibility, and beautiful children. Beautiful and fully functional.
    I have much more in common with a Japanese person of similar background, education, values, outlook, and comportment than I do with a Left Wing American slob, a low class White (internally), or American woman college graduate who would attend an Oprah, Rosie, or Ellen DeGenerate live show, and jump up and cheer and clap. If you are young and want to mate with normalcy, then look for the opposite sex from a TRADITIONAL CULTURE.

    • Replies: @Alden
  390. These ravings would have been a lot more convincing if the author presented the results of the study where the IQ of the same group of East Asians was measured repeatedly at different ages and shown as a function of age. This should be compared with the same kind of study of whites, Blacks, Hispanics, etc. Otherwise the whole article has no leg to stand on. Neither does Harvard, BTW: it admits quite a few clearly unqualified students who have no chance of becoming an intellectual elite or even making it to the top 50% of IQ test takers.

  391. @Pheasant

    That’s the official story. As pretty much all other official stories are lies, what’s the probability of this one being true?

    • Agree: annamaria
  392. @tamo

    I will say this to you, and no more, chunk of matter flowing in stream from a colon irrigation:
    You are an example of what happened when colleges and universities lowered standards to let in previously unqualified people.

    I associate you with the acronym CCCP, Crappy Cancerous Colon Polyp.

    • Replies: @tamo
  393. Alden says:

    I wonder why no one has mentioned the construction and engineering achievements of the founders of European civilization, the Romans? Hydro engineering not equaled again till the 20 th century, roads, buildings. Or that 2,500 years ago the ancient Celts of W Europe used a grain harvesting machine that looked exactly like the McCormick reaper? Or early medieval water power and water mills that were constantly improved and perfected?

    Or the vastly more efficient and healthy for the worker long handled spade shovel rake hoe and digging fork? Why couldn’t all those Asian Indian African geniuses figure out long handled garden farm implements? Does it take a genius to do that? No, just an ordinary low level landless European farm worker capable of figuring out what would save his her back and be vastly more efficient as well. I mean, does it take a genius to figure out a 5 ft digging tool handle is better that a 2 ft handle?? The Romans treated their farm worker slaves worse than the farm animals. But even the Roman slaver farm workers had long handled digging tools.

    Rice culture? N China where Chinese civilization began was is wheat culture. Plant the seeds, chase the birds away and wait for harvest. For centuries S China was more like a frontier where the Han people were pioneers from the north and began to grow rice. Of course that was 4,000-3,000 years ago.

    None of this matters. The White elites want the rest of us dead. The middle class tries to conform to the new religion of Hate Whitey in the hopes they’ll be spared as good little adherents of the Hate White religion. That was fine 500 years ago during the reformation. Confirm to the new religion. But it doesn’t work today.

    Sauve qui peut. All is lost save yourself if you can.

    But then I’m a White Nationalist not a moron conservative who welcomes the Asian invasion because they’re not black criminals.

    • Replies: @Malla
  394. @res

    Yes, Temple’s book The Genius of China is probably the most accessible and popular book on China’s scientific achievements. And it was overseen by Needham, who advised Temple on its content.

    But if you prefer to go straight to the source, Needham is a good read. It’s been a while since I read him, but I’m sure there’s still a good abridged version of his work available.

    BTW, if you’re interested in such things, Simon Winchester recently published a biography of Needham: The Man Who Loved China: The Eccentric Scientist Who Unlocked the Mysteries of the Middle Kingdom.

    Are there any more balanced views on the topic?

    Not that I’m aware of. I read some mild criticisms of Needham’s work before, but they were couched in articles that were otherwise laudatory. They were never in book form, never a comprehensive critique.

    The problem for any potential critic of Needham is that his work is formidably scholarly and comprehensive. Needham was a recognized biochemist with a well-known work on embryological development before he ever started studying Chinese. He was a member of the Royal Society before he ever traveled to China.

    And then after Needham started an affair with a Chinese woman scientist who was studying at Cambridge, he became fascinated with the language and culture of China, and wondered why its civilization had stagnated. He was already in his late thirties when he had this revelation. He then studied Chinese with a vengeance and later traveled throughout China (starting in 1943), getting to know as much about China’s history of innovation as he could possibly know. The subject would dominate the rest of his very long life.

    So anyone planning to comprehensively attack Needham’s work better pack a lunch. It’s a genuinely great work. The problem is that it tends to create weirdos, like Tamo, who overinterpret what the work means.

    • Replies: @res
  395. @Reg Cæsar

    FYI, I am not championing open borders. My position has always been only if the country needs it.

    But no one, I repeat no one has the right to kick any legal immigrant out. Except the exceptions written into law, like criminals.

    All this talk is pointless anyway, the Hispanic population will out breed everyone.

  396. @Pincher Martin

    From what I have read, it is moral code and conduct. Nothing more. Widely adopted by all the dynasties because it is very useful for the ruling elites.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  397. @tamo

    You just don’t like these outstanding scholars because they don’t conform to your outdated eurocentric bullshit.

    Actually, it’s your views that are outdated. Frank published Reorient more than twenty tears ago, and Pomeranz published The Great Divergence in 2000.

    This isn’t new stuff. It’s old stuff, and the arguments have been hashed out and rehashed out, again and again. You should stop promoting these books like they’re cutting edge. It just makes you look like a young fuddy-duddy, and nobody likes a kid trying to pretend he’s a wise old man.

    • Replies: @tamo
  398. While reading this I thought of the atheist W.C. Fields, who it is said while in hospital, and dieing, was caught reading the Bible. When asked why he answered simply. “I’m looking for loopholes”.

  399. Malla says:
    @Alden

    For centuries S China was more like a frontier where the Han people were pioneers from the north and began to grow rice. Of course that was 4,000-3,000 years ago.

    Didn’t the Han call the Southerners (before their Hanification), “insect peoples”?

  400. Bruno says:
    @PorkTastic

    Yeah I understood jati better reading Reich book

  401. Alden says:
    @tamo

    So European Arab Indian Egyptian Mongolian Turk Central Asian pre Columbian S American Polynesian women of all races didn’t have spinning wheels and small looms rug making felt & batik clothe making equipment but did nothing but cook dinner and wait for the men to come home from the field all day?

    The ancient pre columbian Mexicans raised cotton picked it picked out the seeds spun it into thread and wove the threads into cloth. Must have been that mythical Chinese admiral who discovered America before Columbus who taught them Probably brought the cotton seeds and cloth making equipment too.

    Virtually every Chinese accomplishment you’ve cited like making cloth and reversed carved stamps are universal except in Africa. What next, Rhino horn viagra? The wonderful ness of cutting down trees because devils live in them and block the good spirits from entering the house?

    • Replies: @tamo
    , @nymom
  402. @Astuteobservor II

    The imperial exams for Confucian scholars evolved over time, but they always focused on writing and a knowledge of various arts and rituals, and then budgeting, agriculture, and the law. To a lesser degree, they also tested math and military knowledge.

    I may be wrong, but I don’t believe the exams ever put as much emphasis on exam-taker’s knowledge of technology as they did on his calligraphy. Not in the nearly two millennia they existed.

  403. Alden says:
    @Hippopotamusdrome

    Whats so unusual about a 605 AD or 6o5 BC bridge? Every civilization had bridges, even the most primitive Stone Age S Americans and Africans. I believe that the only people who didn’t have bridges 605 BC were the Australian Aborigines.

    What’s next, the Chinese discovered how to make fire?

    • Replies: @Malla
  404. Chinaman says:

    May be it is the Asians that immigrate to the that can’t innovate? May be there is a self selection problem here too. This selection bias might favour early settlers in Americans since it was undeveloped and poor but there might be a lot of adverse selection recently since the Chinese immigrants who wants to come to the US because it is rich and a strong social safety net. I had a company in NYC, never thought about staying. China is the Wild West today.

    I think we can all agree that the list of recent innovation that the Japanese have produced very innovative , especially when compared to whatever black shithole the author comes from. I think this blanket statement of ALL Asians being uncreative is demonstrably untrue.

    Very few people bother to define Innovation. It have become one of those amorphous feel good concepts like freedom which plagues the world today. For me, innovation is just the process of Evolution. Random permutation or guided search, then selection via a objective criteria. Linus Pauling said “ the best way to have a good idea is to have a lot of ideas.” So everyone, even the author, can be innovative. It is just how fast you can generate ideas and how fast you can test. I also think Innovation can be systematically accelerated. Force yourself to write down 5 random ideas EVERYDAY which everyone will say cannot be done or havn’t been tried. I think you will have some pretty good stuff after a few weeks.

    Being an Asian, having worked with other Asians and whites, I can say the main issue with Asians is insouciance and lack of passion\interest. The stereotype of the boring, flat, Apathetic Asian is probably true. If you don’t care, why would you want to innovate or research? But why don’t they care? Cuz there is not an apparent survival advantage conferred by most “innovation”. Naming dinosaurs, climbing Mount Everest or even inventing iPhone is not going to give people an reproductive edge in modern civilisation . Resourcefulness and innovation probably played an important role in our hunter gatherer past but not now. So these genes eventually get diluted in all ancient population. What are the modern innovations from Greek or Italians or even the UK ? Every population had their good run at some point until dysgenic sets in. US is going down that route now. What we need more in the world now associative mating.

    • Replies: @d dan
  405. Malla says:
    @Alden

    Did the ancient Egyptians have bridges across the Nile?

  406. d dan says:
    @MAOWASAYALI

    “Here’s the Qing Court version of the Anji Bridge from 1736.”

    I believe the image you attached here is from the 清明上河圖, which was from Song dynasty (around 1000, not 1736). You are right, arch bridges exist in China very long ago.

  407. Alden says:
    @Poupon Marx

    Here’s what happens when a naive American White man marries a first generation Asian. Since she is compelled by custom to pay back her parents and grand parents for raising her, that’s $200-$500 going out of their household to the relatives every month.

    Also immigrant relatives will arrive from wherever and expect to be housed. Depending on his occupation he’ll be expected to do all sorts of favors for the relatives. Some of those favors will be illegal or at least against occupational ethics.

    For instance Drs are supposed to fill out and sign fraudulent handicapped license plate forms for everybody. Are you a mechanic an employee not the owner of the shop? The Asian relatives will start bringing their cars to your shop and expect you to steal and install expensive parts while pretending to do a cheaper oil change or carburetor replacement. Do you have a big garage or house? You’re expected to let them establish an illegal sewing sweatshop or even chicken slaughterhouse. Things like that are just expected. It’s The Asian Way.

    Of course the Asian relatives will provide you with the paperwork for a handicapped license plate and any other corrupt dishonest thing they can provide for you. If she’s Chinese you’ll have to cut down or pour gallons of weed killer on every tree on your property and the block because devils live in trees and prevent the good spirits from coming in. Naturally you’ll have to cover the front yard with concrete to accommodate all the cars owned by the dozen or so relatives living in your house.,
    These are The Asian Ways.

    And your children will have your European surname and every college and job application will be thrown out because they have a White surname. Mixed race asian and White won’t help a bit.

    3rd and 4th generation Asians are fine but uncommon in some parts of the country. Plenty in California though.

    • Disagree: Poupon Marx
    • Replies: @Poupon Marx
  408. d dan says:
    @Chinaman

    “For me, innovation is just the process of Evolution. ”

    Ancient Chinese civilization was the most innovative one in human history. The inventions that came out of China dwarfed all other civilizations combined. Therefore, it will be an astonishing turnaround if the modern Chinese is less innovative than any other races.

    But you are right, innovation can be systematically synthesized, can be managed, can even be computer generated. However, innovative capability is way too overrated, too over-emphasized by western society today. It is one of the few areas they still hope to compete against the Asian economies.

  409. Beto says:

    Alfred North Whitehead, in his book “The Aims of Education,” notes that his Jewish students at Harvard were precocious, but that this should not be confused with depth.

    This insight could be applied to the rather unintelligent concept of IQ, which is an attempt to quantify what essentially is not quantifiable.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  410. Malla says:
    @Pheasant

    None of the Japanese posters on Unz (Che Guava or Half Jap for example) show any anti-White tendencies. You fools fought the wrong enemy in WW2.

  411. @Poupon Marx

    I have formulated a step by step plan for “Whites” [Indo-Europeans] to phase to an independent republic in North American, using the momentum of Blacks and Browns for their separate self-governing entities.

    Nice try. Dot head stinky-curry eating Indians are not white. They need to stay the F back in India or wherever the F on the subcon they’re from.

    • Replies: @Poupon Marx
  412. I agree with the author. It’s time to make the Ivy League 100% black as reparation for slavery.

  413. tamo says:
    @Pincher Martin

    You said “That’s it, Tamo, keep bluffing when you really don’t know anything about the Scientific Revolution. Keep bluffing even after I named some of the scientists in the early part of the Scientific Revolution who improved technologies with the specific aim of helping their scientific activities.

    I’m going to quote or paraphrase some lines from pages 190-191 of ReORIENT by Andre Gunder Frank for your benefit so that your little brain can absorb the truth about so-called scientific revolution and it’s alleged effects on technology.

    quoting Steven Shapin’s study of the subject ” Authoritative observers from Francis Bacon to Thomas Kuhn conclude that , whether revolutionary or not, these scientific advances appear to have had NO IMMEDIATE IMPACT ON TCHNOLOGY whatsoever and certainly NONE ON THE INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION which didn’t even begin until a century later.’

    Bacon had observed” the overmuch credit that hath been given unto authors in science for alleged contributions to arts mechanical and their first deviser”. According to Thomas Kuhn, after serious inquiries into so -called scientific revolution , the real scientific revolution didn’t begin until the 19th century. Also Steven Shapin says “it now appears unlikely that the high theory of the scientific revolution had any substantial effect on economically useful technology in either the 17th century or the 18th century. Robert Adams states that after reviewing any and all relations between technology and science, including so-called 17th century scientific revolution, he concludes that SCIENTISTS and THEIR SCIENCE made NO SIGNIFICANT CONTRIBUTION TO NEW TECHNOLOGY BEFORE THE 19TH CENTURY. These are just some of examples about the NON-SCIENTIFIC REVOLUTION in the 17th century.

    You said “You DO have a reading comprehension problem. As I told you earlier, I’ve already read both Needham and Temple. (Temple’s book is nothing more than a popularized one-volume version of Needham’s more encyclopedic work, published in the mid-eighties to coincide with Queen Elizabeth visiting China for the first time. Needham oversaw Temple’s book.)”

    I think you are the one who really has a SERIOUS READING COMPREHENSION PROBLEM.
    If you really read THE GENIUS OF CHINA by Robert Temple which is a very short version of Needham’s book and very easy to read, as you said, then you wouldn’t have any problem to understand the outstanding pre-modern Chinese technological achievements . But your knowledge seems to be almost nothing on this subject. This means you either have a very serious reading comprehension problem Or you are lying, you didn’t read Robert Temple’s book. Either way, you are a fake with the moronic eurocentric agenda. You just don’t want to admit the outstanding Chinese achievements in the area of pre-modern technologies, no matter what.

    You said ” It’s a great work, and Needham was a genuinely brilliant man. But he was also a man with a thesis in search of evidence, and that sometimes affected his judgment. Even before Needham arrived in China, even before he had any evidence to support his book, he had already decided what his book would be about. So his credulity on such matters strained the evidence.

    Again you are talking a lot of garbage. The academic standing of Needham’s SCIENCE AND CIVILIZATION IN CHINA still by and large remains INTACT so far. So the opinions of a THIRD-RATE AMATEUR like YOU, DO NOT MATTER AT ALL..

    I said “I say you are dead wrong. Read CHINESE -MADE CLOCKS IN QING DYNASTY by David Chen.”

    You said “I guess I’ll have to, because I can’t really rely on you to report on its contents accurately, can I? ”

    This stupid response means two things. One possibility is that you already read the article that proved you wrong and you don’t want to admit you were wrong or another possibility is that you haven’t read the article or never intend to read the article, because you just don’t want to be humiliated in public because I proved you wrong.

  414. tamo says:
    @Alden

    Hey, I’m not interested in your dribble. As I said before, you are out of your league. You are about the middle school level.

    • Replies: @Beto
  415. @anonymous

    LOL not even a single Indian university in the global top 100 for CS and these dot head “best and brightest”, “highly skilled” are taking over our tech industry. Indians are the ultimate conmen.

  416. @Fair Assessment

    The author has a point. Why should Harvard admit dime-a-dozen Asian greasy grinds over a gem like this:

    https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/environment/seattles-jamie-margolin-is-17-and-a-climate-activist-on-wednesday-she-testifies-before-congress/

    Hispanic – check
    “Queer” – check
    Immigrant – check
    Spanish translator – check
    Climate activist – check
    AOC supporter, Trump hater – check
    To speak to congress on climate change – check (National eminence!)

    Check check check check check, just the kind of future leader Harvard is looking for. Forget the Asians, what do they think Harvard is? A vocational school? Let them go to Berkeley and Caltech. Harvard is for activists!

  417. Malla says:
    @PorkTastic

    If we Indians are such IT/Software geniuses then why do Indian Institute of Technology (IIT) teams perform so poorly in programming contests like the IBM ACM contests? The IITs are the best engineering institutes of India having our highest IQ students.

    https://icpc.baylor.edu/community/results-2019

    Final standings of the 43th Annual International Collegiate Programming Contest World Finals, 2019

    You can check the winners of earlier years.

    https://icpc.baylor.edu/community/world-finals-champions

    Check how White Slavic and Asian Han Chinese teams dominate. Moscow State University, St. Petersburg ITMO University, St. Petersburg State University, Zhejiang University, Warsaw University.
    If you go through the results you will see that in many years, the IIT teams could not even solve a single problem and were given only an honorary mention. Remember these are the cream of the country.
    A lot of Indians are just gas bags. From CEOs to poor workers, chest thumping is very common here.

    • LOL: Aft
  418. tamo says:
    @Pincher Martin

    You seem to be a wise ass punk who does not have much knowledge in any subject but love to butt into other people’s conversation and try to wing it. You are basically a fake with huge idiotic outdated eurocentric bent, lol !!!

    I think Pomeranz, Frank, Wong, Hobbs,etc are fascinating. the older they get , the better they get. Meanwhile. my little boy, try to stay away from Landes and other ehrocentric morons, if you can. But I think it’s beyond your pea brain, lol !!!

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  419. eah says:
    @d dan

    basic fact

    Aha — so that’s a “basic fact” that people in “the west” are supposed to know — “LOL” — why the hell should they know or care about that? — and what a big surprise it is too that in a country of approx 1.4b people, a top university is even tougher to crack than one in a country with less than 1/4 of the population; who would ever have imagined that? — only the “ignorant” rubes of “the west”.

    Fucking moron.

  420. tamo says:
    @Poupon Marx

    Poupon Marx must be a great-great-grand son of the idiot, Karl.. lol !!!! What a moron !! I mean you POOP, lol again.

    • Replies: @Malla
  421. @Beto

    This insight could be applied to the rather unintelligent concept of IQ, which is an attempt to quantify what essentially is not quantifiable.

    If intelligence is not quantifiable, then why does IQ work so well at making aggregate predictions along the lines that most people think of as signs of intelligence (i.e., economic success, educational levels, etc.)?

  422. @Tired of Not Winning

    What about American Indians? You are referring to Hindus. Please provide me with your educational attainment, specifically whether you graduated from High School.

    It’s not hard to guess what side of the Bell Normative Curve you are on. The only question is how many standard deviations.

  423. @Alden

    Come, come now. That is waaaay too generalized and overwrought. It fact, by my knowledge and experience, that only applies to Asians-including Phillipinos-who come from very rural, very poor, hinterlands where running water is a luxury.

    I said there is nothing wrong with marrying within your caste, educational level, cultural level, etc. What you are describing is conceivable with a poor White girl from a White Trash family living on the ground. I have seen these people up close because I did the Jack Kerouac trip in my early twenties. I hitchhiked my way across the USA several times.

    I know you are well intentioned, but your observations are from very limited and skewed circumstances, as I’m sure you will admit. I’ve seen so many Eurasian unions in my lifetime, professionally and personally, that I cannot count them all. In every case that I recall, all is normal, happiness in the home, and the children bright, beautiful, and delightful.

    If one of your grandchildren presents an Asian of equal achievement and excellent character, it should make absolutely no difference. Be very careful how you respond, should such a situation present itself.

  424. Peter Frost says: • Website
    @tamo

    You didn’t answer my question. You seem to have trouble identifying the points where we agree and the points where we disagree.

    First, I agree with your statement that “in the year 1100, the most developed economy in the world was certainly in Song China.” Not long after, however, China underwent major economic and demographic decline under Mongol rule. Sustained growth didn’t begin until the Manchu period, and it was sluggish.

    Do you agree with that assessment of Chinese history?

    As for Andre Gunder Frank, if you want to call him an “economic historian” go ahead. It’s not a legally protected title like “chartered accountant.” Officially, he was a professor of sociology and economics and, later, a professor in developmental economy.

    • Replies: @tamo
  425. Beto says:
    @tamo

    Dribble is not drivel.

  426. Thirdeye says:
    @Peter Frost

    China and Europe had an up-and-down histories during that period, which don’t lend themselves to neatly interpolated linear graphs. Europe’s growth during the High Middle Ages was followed by the disastrous Fourteenth Century, then recovered with the growth of trade and the intellectual revolution of the Sixteenth Century. China, after Mongol rule, flourished during the Ming Dynasty that produced so many of China’s significant civil and cultural works, then experienced decline during the late Ming dynastic wars that ended in Manchu rule. So it is quite possible that Ming China could have led Europe before the economic revolution that swept Sixteenth and Seventeenth Century Europe. The late Ming collapse is arguably something that took China over 300 years to recover from. Interestingly, there is a thread between the late Seventeenth Century Chinese civil wars, the Taiping civil war of 1850-1864, and the 1910 Nationalist Revolution, all in opposition to a dynasty regarded as foreign usurpers. And the leaders of the latter two were influenced by Western thought.

  427. @Malla

    That’s it, confuse and confound them with facts. By the way, I started using the word Hindus to describe people from India. And Indians for Native Americans.

    If it were not for the Hindus imported to take over the IT jobs here, the blame would fall on another group, e.g, Chinese, Brazilians, Koreans, etc, etc. I would not that a LOT of these Hindus have come down four square on the side of the Bill Gates, Google Boys, Zuckerschmucker, etc, etc. But how else could they comport? They are at the mercy of the Tech Masters of the Jewniverse.

    Previously, you were very honest about the excessive lack of honesty of a too large percentage of imported Hindu tech workers. That is commendable. I am of Greek parentage, and I do not spare my ethnic nationality the condemnation and dismissal they deserve. The truth is, too many of them make me uncomfortable and irritable.

    • Replies: @Malla
  428. baythoven says:
    @Fair Assessment

    As a teen I was like your son, which in that day meant regularly checking out piles of LPs from the libraries. Nothing could compare to the thrill of discovering another musical masterpiece. It is an obsession, but of the very best kind.
    Best wishes to him — he is clearly talented — and to you.

  429. JoannF says:
    @Poupon Marx

    You better get used to people not understanding what you say or write, I had that experience in kindergarten 😉
    There’s a Jordan Peterson (I’m not a fan) video about what obstacles people with IQs below 85 are facing, just as a hint at how hard it can be. We are NOT all the same – the differences may be small on a galactic scale but they are gigantic on a human one. Organized psychopaths, a special race evolved over millenia of human civilization, cannot survive without a herd to fed on, and that herd may never be allowed to catch wise, to become too intelligent. There are other factors mixed into the goings-on, but this is one we should never lose focus of.

    Your point about the 15% of American revolutionaries is interesting, I hadn’t heard about that statistic before…
    I’m sorry about being late to respond but I had a lot to do, we had car repairs, tyres, shopping and so on today.
    I’m a German expatriate living in Portugal, so I can compare a few things or rather, situations, milieus, ambientes.
    This is rural Portugal, an old land with Roman bridges and Moorish castles,, and people have profited from the EU. they are prospering in a non-spectacular way, a bit delayed compared to the rest of Europe (or the US), they are more traditional and feel less guilty (maybe, hard to say). It’s a beautiful, quiet and safe country where people still follow what you might call the ‘American Dream’.

    There are next to no ‘asylants,’ well they had some friendly Angolan Blacks back in the day, Colonials, they have very few now who come here because of the shared language – not enough gibs for the rest. Peace.
    So, we’re living in one of the last European idyls, living in the past.

    What are people interested in, what do they regard as ‘important’ ?
    Music, fun, cars (guys), fashion (girls). The upcoming terror of the 21st century hasn’t remotely penetrated yet, though the state media are propagating, “Portugal, a country for everyone,” preparing them for things to come. Nobody understands wtf that is even supposed to mean.

    It’s totally different in Germany, which is right now in “It’s all about Climate Change” frenzy, but on the whole it’s clearly a matter of awareness.Human awareness. consciousness on the whole, are fickle things unable to process much in a given time unit.
    That is the problem we face, teaching the ignorant and the dumb.
    Wait. We cannot teach the dumb, only the bigger media battalions can do that.
    We should concentrate on only teaching the ignorant, and that is hard enough, because the bigger battalions have an incredible edge with them as well…

    I’m not a fan of ‘human intelligence,’ there is no such thing.
    There’s this herd animal, competitive, resulting in the clever psychopaths leading the masses, even able to work them into a frenzy by quoting egalitarianism, which clearly exempts exactly the worshiped psychopaths. That’s okay because it’s hardwired – it;s emo and we don’t want reason anymore.
    This is the essence of neuroanthropological psychology, obviously this has been understood by the Elites as I have understood it, obviously they are using it for their endgame.
    After which there will be no further discussion, only a simulation of discussion – maybe not even that, what for ?

    It’s a logical development for a species of scavengers, isn’t it ? It probably isn’t even objectively negative, we’re just seeing it that way, coming from the forlorn Age of Reason…
    Totally subjective. All that counts is objectively the upkeep of the (rest of the) biosphere, and the only hope is AI, of which the psychopaths will likely lose control because of their biological lack of free, non-drive-bound intelligence.
    That could still make our millenium 😉

    Sorry if my reply may ahve been somewhat dissatisfying, but it is very hard to view-and -reply coherently at this place.

  430. Malla says:
    @Poupon Marx

    Hindus to describe people from India

    That is very common and understandable but not all Indians are Hindus. Anyways most non Hindus Indians understand this term for Indians in general.

    That is commendable. I am of Greek parentage,

    I though you are Chinese. Did you not write somewhere, you were living in China? I guess you are an ex-pat then.

    The truth is, too many of them make me uncomfortable and irritable.

    I can understand.

    • Replies: @Poupon Marx
  431. JoannF says:
    @Counterinsurgency

    Well, humans are the religious scavenger animal – in fact, we cannot live without turning shit into cults and religions are basically cults that endure a few generations for being dumb enough to be understood by the masses. When this cult starves, big genetic changes for the worse will have been effected, steps way back in a dimension of millenia. That’s the basic problem I’m having here, and the endangered biosphere that will not profit from intrahuman neuroticisms.

    • Replies: @Counterinsurgency
  432. Corvinus says:
    @Priss Factor

    “But France should deport the blacks and Arabs.”

    No, it shouldn’t. On the other hand, you have to go back.

  433. Corvinus says:
    @Justvisiting

    “I feel bad for _all_ of these kids–they have no idea of how the adults have sabotaged their lives.”

    That would be Fake News.

  434. @tamo

    I’m going to quote or paraphrase some lines from pages 190-191 of ReORIENT by Andre Gunder Frank….

    Oh, for God’s sake, please don’t quote Frank. I’m begging you NOT to quote Frank. You can quote Marx. You can quote Lenin. You can quote Stalin.

    But please don’t quote Frank. He’s the dumbest of dumb historians.

    …quoting Steven Shapin’s study of the subject ” Authoritative observers from Francis Bacon to Thomas Kuhn conclude that , whether revolutionary or not, these scientific advances appear to have had NO IMMEDIATE IMPACT ON TCHNOLOGY whatsoever and certainly NONE ON THE INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION which didn’t even begin until a century later.’

    Oh God. You went and did it.

    By this time I should know better than to try and educate you, Tamo, so the following explanation I provide will be a triumph of hope over experience.

    I’ve given numerous examples of technological improvements during the early part of the Scientific Revolution made, not by craftsmen (as you claimed), but by scientists who were trying to improve the way they perceived the world. Galileo didn’t invent the telescope, but he certainly improved it. And the impetus for him doing so was to improve his science. Leeuwenhoek didn’t invent the microscope, but he polished his lens with such skill that he was easily able to see a world heretofore unknown to man. (And unlike Galileo, who usually would sell a few of his telescopes to make some money on the side, Leeuwenhoek refused to part with his well-polished lens.) Hooke and Boyle didn’t invent the vacuum pump, and there is some question as to whether their device ever really worked, but they began a process of experimental improvement that led to technological improvements.

    Examples like this go on and on and on. While some post-modern scholars like to claim that the Industrial Revolution had nothing to do with the Scientific Revolution, and some of them even question whether there was even a revolution(s) at all, I go with the traditional and commonsense view that the Industrial Revolution is impossible to conceive of without the Scientific Revolution happening first.

    Here is how David Wootton in his The Invention of Science puts it:

    But since 1572 [the year Tycho Brahe saw a bright supernova] the world has been caught up in a vast Scientific Revolution that has transformed the nature of knowledge and the capacities of humankind. Without it there would have been no Industrial Revolution and none of the modern technologies on which we depend…

    Wootton continues ….

    As time has gone on the idea that there is something that can sensibly be called the Scientific Revolution has come increasingly under attack. Some have argued for continuity – that modern science derives from medieval science, or indeed from Aristotle. Others, beginning with Thomas Kuhn, who published a book on The Copernican Revolution in 1957, followed by The Structure of Scientific Revolutions (1962), have sought to multiply revolutions: the Darwinian revolution, the Quantum revolution, the DNA revolution, and so on. Others have claimed that the real Scientific Revolution came in the nineteenth century, in the marriage of science and technology. All these different revolutions have their utility in understanding the past, but they should not distract our attention from the main event: the invention of science. [My emphases in bold.]

    With that as the preface, let’s unpack the dumbest of dumb historian’s (Andre Gunder Frank’s) brief comments about the Scientific Revolution, as provided by the tyro Tamo.

    …quoting Steven Shapin’s study of the subject ”

    Steve Shapin is a sociologist of science. I happened to read his (and Simon Schaffer’s) Leviathan and the Air-Pump: Hobbes, Boyle, and the Experimental Life earlier this year after seeing it mentioned in Wootton’s book as very influential.

    Shapin’s argument is that Robert Boyle’s air-pump never did work as advertised, and was never effectively rebuilt by other scientists in his day who wanted to repeat Boyle’s experiments. Shapin says that even today it is almost impossible to recreate what Boyle was doing in the late 17th century.

    This begs the question of whether these early scientists were actually following the scientific method as laid out by Bacon. The philosopher Thomas Hobbes saw this hypocrisy and publicly criticized Boyle and his device. Boyle initially tried to reason with Hobbes, but finally ignored the philosopher’s objections and got on with his science.

    Shapin’s point is that there was a lot of merit to Hobbes’ attacks on the vacuum experiment and its assumptions. Shapin also argues that the traditional view of science misses out on why Boyle was able to continue with his experiments without Hobbes’ attacks fatally wounding them. It’s not because Boyle won the argument with Hobbes. Boyle and other natural philosophers of the day simply started to ignore people like Hobbes, and their philosophical objections, as irrelevant to what they were doing. In other words, it was a change in the sociology of knowledge in England at the time, not Boyle’s grip on the scientific truth (which Hobbes correctly argued was tenuous), that made Hobbes’ attacks irrelevant.

    Shapin’s argument is interesting, but it doesn’t scale up. What might’ve been true about Boyle and his experiments with the air-pump weren’t true of other experiments which were ongoing at the time. And the Scientific Revolution was never about one experiment. If Boyle kept at this experiments, despite repeated failures to confirm it, it was because he and his colleagues felt that they were working in the right direction and would eventually solve it.

    Frank continues…

    Authoritative observers from Francis Bacon to Thomas Kuhn conclude that , whether revolutionary or not, these scientific advances appear to have had NO IMMEDIATE IMPACT ON TCHNOLOGY whatsoever and certainly NONE ON THE INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION which didn’t even begin until a century later.’

    Citing Francis Bacon is silly. While Bacon anticipated and described it, he had no idea he was living in the Scientific Revolution. Bacon died in the early 17th century – decades before Boyle and his air-pump, before Leeuvonhoek and his microscopes, before Newton and his Principia, before Newcomen and his proto-steam engine.

    Well, here’s what Woottoen says about Bacon in his book:

    Bacon’s central claim was thus that knowledge (at least, knowledge of the sort that he was advocating) was power: if you understood something, you acquired the capacity to control and reproduce nature’s effects. Far from the products of human expertise being necessarily inferior to the products of nature, human beings were in principle capable of doing far more than nature ever did, of doing things ‘of a kind that before their invention the least suspicion of them would scarcely have crossed anyone’s mind, but a man would simply have dismissed them as impossible’. Where the goal of Greek philosophy had been contemplative understanding, that of Baconian philosophy was a new technology. Bacon’s ambitions for this new technology were remarkable: it was to be a form of ‘magic’; that is, it was to do things which seemed impossible to those unacquainted with it (as guns seemed a form of magic to Native Americans).

    So Bacon correctly anticipates what would eventually happen, but he didn’t live long enough to see it take place.

    As for Kuhn, only God knows why Gunder would cite him. Kuhn’s scholarly focus is not on changing technology, but on changing scientific paradigms. I went back to The Structure of Scientific Revolutions and couldn’t find one apt comment on technology in the entire book. Of course, it’s possible Kuhn makes an argument about technology elsewhere in his work, but clearly he was not a scholar who focused on changing technology in the early Scientific Revolution. Gunder most likely cites him because he is a famous name in the field.

    CONTINUED…

    • Replies: @tamo
  435. tamo says:
    @Peter Frost

    Yes, you are correct . In the early 17th century, Ming dynasty suffered economic disasters culminating in the fall of Ming dynasty.

    The main reasons for the collapse of Ming economy were shortage of silver and climate change brought on by the Little Ice Age.

    Silver in Ming dynasty was the main medium of exchange. But the two main sources of Chinese silver were Spain and Japan. Spain cracked down on illegal Mexican and Peruvian silver coming to China via Manila.

    Also Japan’s Tokugawa Shogunate stopped all foreign trade thus blocking Japanese silver coming into China. This crated a great shortage of silver coins in circulation thus causing inflation..

    At the same time the northern China suffered from famines because of shortened growing season brought on by unusually dry and cold weather that in turn was affected by the Little Ice Age.

    But after Qing takeover, the Chinese economy was normalized in the late 17th century and started to grow again so that in the 18th century Qing dynasty had a vibrant market economy and thriving foreign trade again.

  436. tamo says:
    @Malla

    I think Ankor Wat is one of the most beautiful structures in the world. I personally don’t care for very tall buildings.

  437. Anonymous[364] • Disclaimer says:
    @Alden

    By that logic, Europe has never been prosperous and great since Europeans have constantly been swarming out of European countries throughout history.

  438. @tamo

    CONTINUED FROM ABOVE…

    Also Steven Shapin says “it now appears unlikely that the high theory of the scientific revolution had any substantial effect on economically useful technology in either the 17th century or the 18th century.

    Find anywhere I said that the technological improvements in the early part of the Scientific Revolution had to be “economically useful”? Go ahead. I’ll wait.

    No, what I said was that technological improvements were made by scientists (not craftsmen) working in that period, and that these early technological improvements were later important to continued technological improvements in their fields. James Watt doesn’t invent his steam engine without the inventions and improvements made by European scientists starting more than a century before.

    Robert Adams states that after reviewing any and all relations between technology and science, including so-called 17th century scientific revolution, he concludes that SCIENTISTS and THEIR SCIENCE made NO SIGNIFICANT CONTRIBUTION TO NEW TECHNOLOGY BEFORE THE 19TH CENTURY. These are just some of examples about the NON-SCIENTIFIC REVOLUTION in the 17th century.

    Well, I have no idea who Robert Adams is, but that’s just wrong, as I’ve already shown with numerous examples.

    If you really read THE GENIUS OF CHINA by Robert Temple which is a very short version of Needham’s book and very easy to read, as you said, then you wouldn’t have any problem to understand the outstanding pre-modern Chinese technological achievements.

    Well, I’m providing more arguments than you, and more examples from the Scientific Revolution than you, but I do have to grant that you’re cutting and pasting from your bibliography of bad books more than I am.

    I would offer you an improved bibliography on these subjects, but I’m afraid it would go to waste.

    Again you are talking a lot of garbage. The academic standing of Needham’s SCIENCE AND CIVILIZATION IN CHINA still by and large remains INTACT so far. So the opinions of a THIRD-RATE AMATEUR like YOU, DO NOT MATTER AT ALL..

    I never said it wasn’t. Your reading comprehension precludes any real understanding between us, but when I earlier wrote that…

    So anyone planning to comprehensively attack Needham’s work better pack a lunch. It’s a genuinely great work. The problem is that it tends to create weirdos, like Tamo, who overinterpret what the work means.

    Another problem with Needham’s work is that it has created a new context in which it is less needed. When Science and Civilization in China first appeared in the mid-fifties, there was a need for it to combat the insularity and arrogance of many in the West who might’ve assumed that no one outside the West did anything worth knowing about.

    That’s no longer true today, thanks in large part to men like Needham. Now the ignorant dunderheads argue much like you do. The corrective needs to go in the opposite direction.

    This stupid response means two things. One possibility is that you already read the article that proved you wrong and you don’t want to admit you were wrong or another possibility is that you haven’t read the article or never intend to read the article, because you just don’t want to be humiliated in public because I proved you wrong.

    What it means is exactly what I said. Someone who habitually misreads simple posts can’t be relied on to report the findings of scholarly works. I don’t think you’re a liar. A liar – at least a *smart* liar – would be more interesting than you are. You’re just not reliable.

    • Replies: @tamo
  439. @tamo

    You seem to be a wise ass punk who does not have much knowledge in any subject but love to butt into other people’s conversation and try to wing it.

    Point of order. I wasn’t the one who “butted into” any conversation involving you. You first responded to a post of mine near the top of this thread. That began our discussion.

    It appears your reading comprehension problem might be caused by a memory disorder.

    • Replies: @tamo
  440. Thirdeye says:
    @Pincher Martin

    So these technologies were not scientific. End of story. Anymore than the Polynesians traveling across the Pacific Ocean did so because of science.

    South Sea Islanders understood sails, interpretive oceanography and meteorology, and navigation better than anyone else in the world. That’s why they could cross expanses of water that nobody else would consider until the fore-and-aft sail (from its origins in the western Pacific) made its way to Europe via the Indian Ocean and the Ottoman Empire, and the Europeans made the compass a practical device. Columbus never could have done his thing without sail technology from the western Pacific.

  441. @Malla

    That’s OK. I consider myself re-incarnated Chinese, Japanese, East Asian. I felt it when I first attended high school in Tokyo, and later in Hawaii and the University of H at Manoa. I don’t belong to this Western culture. I spent most of my adult life out of the USA and never missed it.

    Anyway I got the idea from David Yeagley, an American Indian Comanche, composer and patriot. You will find in the older British literature “Indians” referred to as Hindus and Hindoos. I know of course, that not all Hindus are Hindu, but most are derivatives of Hindu religion, which even Buddhism once was. Hinduism defines India, it holds it together and creates a common weal.

    My wife and I really like good Indian movies, some of which are superlative. Production values are high, and the acting, writing is first class. Hollywood has Stage 3 cancer. There is no obscenity in Indian movies and no nudity. All modesty.

    I’ve seen India on the scene and Hindus around the world, from top to bottom. Many of them are crassly materialistic, but I am not to judge generally. I do know that it is supremely important for intelligent professionals to marry same level to preserve IQ and innate abilities, and to consolidate holdings and assets. I am mature enough now to appreciate that.

    I mention again that I am a follower of Buddhism, with simpatico in Shinto, Tao, Confucianism. Christianity is incomplete and inadequate, and has always been, IMHO.

    • Replies: @Malla
  442. Escher says:

    Dude, at least use the correct picture. I highly doubt Michael Ren is a blond white boy.

  443. @Thirdeye

    South Sea Islanders understood sails, interpretive oceanography and meteorology, and navigation better than anyone else in the world.

    Oceanography and meteorology? Thanks for the laugh.

    Do you think because you use the words for these sciences that it turns what they were actually doing into science?

    Your post reminds me of a great quote by the economist Thorstein Veblen when he was attacking other economists who were similarly inclined as you are to overinterpret the actions of some primitive peoples:

    “A gang of Aleutian Islanders, slushing about in the wrack and surf with rakes and magical incantations for the capture of shellfish, are held…to be engaged on a feat of hedonistic equilibration in rent, wages, and interest.”

    This quote of Veblen’s is probably the only thing of his worth remembering.

    • Replies: @Thirdeye
  444. @Thirdeye

    Please give me a reference on that sail migration thing. Since the Polynesians had no written language, it is impossible to know how many of these attempted migration/explorations FAILED.
    The Polynesians used star positioning at certain times of the day to determine their heading and progress. Sun position was used for heading. The rest of the garble of knowing ocean currents, etc., is very unlikely. They traveled along the same longitude, so angle of the sun and position of the stars was only relative to their position. When you get close to an island, there is usually flotsam in the water and land birds in sight as well as a greater concentration of birds in general.

    It is important to know that almost all polynesians, as almost all aboriginal peoples, were willing cannibals, and had few inhibitions for that human flank steak, or rib rack.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  445. @Astuteobservor II

    All this talk is pointless anyway, the Hispanic population will out breed everyone.

    They already did, elsewhere. That’s why they’re coming here.

    When America is ruled by Hispanics, they will still rush the border– of Canada.

  446. Harvard has every right to discriminate in favor of someone– namely, legacy Harvard men. The place was founded, after all, to train ministers in the faith. It was once all about passing the patrimony.

    (You’d think Asians, of all people, would understand that.)

    There is a slippery slope, to be sure, but we’re already at the bottom. As with marital law.

    • Replies: @d dan
  447. tamo says:
    @Pincher Martin

    Look at you, boy, you are a busybody here involving in many conversations with your fellow losers. You have a more serious problem than a reading comprehension problem .You are a liar. It’s obvious you haven’t read Robert Temple’s THE GENIUS OF CHINA which you claimed to have read.

    • Replies: @res
  448. anon[112] • Disclaimer says:
    @Alden

    If the Chinese were actually swarming out for 3,000 years, there’d be a lot more Chinese outside of China than inside it. But it’s actually the exact opposite. There’s about 1 and a half billion people in China, and about 50 million overseas Chinese, or about just 3% of China’s population.

    By contrast, the Irish diaspora is something like 80 million, while Ireland’s population is around 7 million. It’s the same for many other populations. There are more German descendants outside of Germany than Germany proper, more British descendants outside Britain, etc.

  449. Look at you, boy, you are a busybody here involving in many conversations with your fellow losers.

    Busybody? I’ve posted 27 times in this thread, most of them directed to your posts. You’ve posted over 40 times in this thread.

    So I’m afraid the quantitative data, so to speak, suggest you have been a far busier “busybody” than I have been – not that all that frenetic activity has helped your arguments in the slightest.

    You have a more serious problem than a reading comprehension problem. You are a liar.

    Did you type this out with a quivering lip?

    Nothing wrong with losing an occasional argument, but you shouldn’t be such a sore loser.

    • Replies: @tamo
  450. MarkinLA says:
    @Poupon Marx

    The rest of the garble of knowing ocean currents, etc., is very unlikely.

    I believe it was from this NOVA

    https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/polynesia-genius-navigators/

  451. tamo says:
    @Pincher Martin

    You said”that it means is exactly what I said. Someone who habitually misreads simple posts can’t be relied on to report the findings of scholarly works. I don’t think you’re a liar. A liar – at least a *smart* liar – would be more interesting than you are. You’re just not reliable”

    That’s your response to part of my comment that was directed at you. My comment was “This stupid response means two things. One possibility is that you already read the article that proved you wrong and you don’t want to admit you were wrong or another possibility is that you haven’t read the article or never intend to read the article, because you just don’t want to be humiliated in public because I proved you wrong”. I stand by what I said and you haven’t answered whether you are either a liar or a dummy with a reading comprehension problem. I think you are a stupid liar with a reading compression problem, lol !!

    You also said “I never said it wasn’t. Your reading comprehension precludes any real understanding between us, but when I earlier wrote that”.

    That was your stupid lame answer to my comment that said “Again you are talking a lot of garbage. The academic standing of Needham’s SCIENCE AND CIVILIZATION IN CHINA still by and large remains INTACT so far. So the opinions of a THIRD-RATE AMATEUR like YOU, DO NOT MATTER AT ALL.”.
    You went out of your way to belittle Needham’s SCC but now you, like a slimy lawyer, denies that. You are nothing but a weasel,

    You said “Another problem with Needham’s work is that it has created a new context in which it is less needed. When Science and Civilization in China first appeared in the mid-fifties, there was a need for it to combat the insularity and arrogance of many in the West who might’ve assumed that no one outside the West did anything worth knowing about. that’s no longer true today, thanks in large part to men like Needham. Now the ignorant dunderheads argue much like you do. The corrective needs to go in the opposite direction”.

    I say it has nothing to do with going in any ideological direction. It has to do telling the truth regardless of time period. But dumb eurocentric liar like you would never understand the meaning of the truth.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  452. Anonymous[184] • Disclaimer says:
    @Alden

    According to that graph, median Asian household income is around $67k per year, or about $5,500 per month.

    According to you, 10 to 25 people live in Asian households, and 2 people receive Social Security every month for a total of $3,600.

    Since Social Security is included in household income statistics, subtracting that $3600 from $5500 in monthly income means that those 10 to 25 make a total of $1,900 in income per month, or $190 to $76 per month per person.

    Minimum wage in California is $12/hour, so without overtime, the monthly salary at minimum wage is $1,920.

    So the people in median Asian households can only earn about 10% to 4% of the minimum wage.

    This supports Chanda’s thesis. Despite IQ scores and educational attainment, the typical Asian only earns about 10% to 4% of the minimum wage. As Chanda argues, this suggests that Asian IQs decline significantly in early adulthood.

    • Replies: @Aft
  453. tamo says:
    @Pincher Martin

    You said “Nothing wrong with losing an occasional argument, but you shouldn’t be such a sore loser”

    LOL !!! I’m losing argument?. It’s the other way around. You are the one losing the argument. It’s you who is a sore loser. I think you will make a very seedy personal injury lawyer who goes after helpless old ladies., what class!!!

    You said “Did you type this out with a quivering lip?”.

    No, little boy, I’m shaking in my boots., lol !!! It looks like I’m the target of all ignorant and dishonest WN and eurocentric assholes like you in this forum. You are a busybody in the sense you generate so many worthless comments.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  454. anonymous[378] • Disclaimer says:
    @Pincher Martin

    What a joke. By you definition White Americans are not Caucasians.

    Country boundaries are later invention. Both Chinese and Polynesian are descendents of ancient proto East Asians. Roughly the Chinese ancestries can be split into 4 male y DNA linages, O3 group mostly from Central China, O2 mostly from North China, O1 from South China, and the misc other groups. Polynesians are from the O1 group, so are those Vietnamese, Thais, Malays, Filipinos, Hawaiians, Maoris, etc. Those O1 that remained in South China were the ancestors of almost 1/3 of the Chinese like the Cantonese. In fact some of them still maintained their ancient identity living in Taiwan. The Polynesians are different from the Melanesians and Australian aborigines who are of Y DNA group C. They are also different from the other minority group that remained of Y DNA Q from which the American Native Indians are descended from.

    The exact time of the invention of the compass was in the fog of history but it was during the inter tribal wars period before the 9 tribes allied to become one. The ancestors of the Polynesians were in the immediate vicinity where compass was discovered/invented. Whether their knowledge of compass was passed down is a mystery. Just like the Tasmanian aborigines some how had lost the vital skills of creating fire when the rising sea cut them off from the mainland.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  455. anonymous[378] • Disclaimer says:
    @Alden

    > And again, if China’s so great why are they swarming out

    Why are Europeans swarming out to Americas? Because there are no competitions.

  456. @MarkinLA

    Been there and done that. Most of the time the “good enough is good enough” approach would have been better. Obsession is as obsession does; when there are important advantages it pays off. Most times it was only my self-indulgence. [email protected]

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  457. @tamo

    You went out of your way to belittle Needham’s SCC but now you, like a slimy lawyer, denies that. You are nothing but a weasel,

    How did I belittle Needham’s work? I’ve been mostly complimentary of him. The closest I came to belittling him was when I wrote that…

    Needham was a scientist, but he was not an expert in the history of science in the West. You don’t get that knowledge just by being a Westerner. So his “transcurrent” and “fusion” points are at best questionable interpretations and, more likely, they’re just garbage.

    And I stand by that. Needham was a serious scholar and scientist whose work on China endures. But his judgment, like that of all scholars, was sometimes questionable. However, one could easily say the same thing about the work of most great scholars. In fact, I often say the same thing about scholarly works that I both like and agree with.

    The scholarly digging to create an original work, which is hard to do, is often much more impressive than the judgments the scholar renders on it. Needham is not given a pass from criticism over his judgments just because he did an impressive amount of original research on China.

    And it goes both ways. I’m also able to criticize a book whose ideology and research aims I largely agree with. Richard Lynn’s book on global IQ is an example of this. I believe Lynn’s thesis is largely correct, but I also think his scholarship is sloppy at best and dishonest at worst.

    I say it has nothing to do with going in any ideological direction. It has to do telling the truth regardless of time period. But dumb eurocentric liar like you would never understand the meaning of the truth.

    But I’ve read most of the books you’ve cited here, which means I’m capable of reading books whose ideological leanings I disagree with.

    What books have you read whose ideology you disagree with? For example, name a “Eurocentric” history of the Scientific Revolution that you have read. I bet you can’t. Not a recent one, anyway.

    • Replies: @tamo
  458. Excellent essay. I agree with the facts presented therein by the author and have observed them to be true in my own experience. Where we disagree is in our respective conclusions: I believe that Asian representation in higher education ought to be increased precisely because of their tendency towards stability rather than innovation.

    The West’s obsession with innovation is a double-edged sword. On the one hand, it has prolonged and improved our existences in myriad ways we can scarcely enumerate. But on the other, when pursued to excess for its own sake, it will erode the foundations of society, thereby creating chaos rather than widespread prosperity. Our present obsession with sexual interests of an ever more extreme and niche nature, social justice, changeability and destruction of one’s identity and the context in which they function within them, and the tech industry innovations which directly and indirectly speed these matters along are among the many examples in which Western innovation can prove destructive.

    Moreover, Western innovation is a relatively recent phenomenon; basically a product of the Renaissance and the Reformation. Given that historical trends tend to be cyclical—albeit evolving over the spans of centuries—it could very well come to pass some day in the deep future that stable state societies with Asians at their foundation will be seen as desirable and natural as Western innovative ones.

  459. Ber says:
    @Paul

    The other theory that I have heard is that, especially starting from Genghis Khan’s days, he had taken all the skilled artisans workers from conquered China to work for the Mongols. Others he killed. These happened in the 1100s to 14th Century.

    Much knowledge were passed on to the west by way of the missionaries/ Jesuits, Marco Polo ?( 14th Century?) as well as Mateo Ricci who reached a powerful position in Imperial China as Prime Minister? in early 1600s. It is also speculated that Mateo’s knowledge could possibly have come from the lost science that ancient China had and therefore in a powerful position to influence China’s overall under-development.

    Then there is also the Arab’s knowledge that helped the West’s rise.

    The Vatican is well known to collect indigenous knowledge from around the world and then turning around to destroy local culture. The West would have benefited from such knowledge.

    More research needed. Every one seems to have their own theory.

  460. @tamo

    LOL !!! I’m losing argument?. It’s the other way around. You are the one losing the argument. It’s you who is a sore loser. I think you will make a very seedy personal injury lawyer who goes after helpless old ladies., what class!!!

    Come now, Tamo. All that excess punctuation – commas following periods; multiple exclamation points; periods following question marks; etc. – is a clear sign you’re losing the argument if not your mind. I’ve never seen such an unnecessary waste of punctuation.

    • Replies: @res
    , @tamo
  461. res says:
    @tamo

    Look at you, boy, you are a busybody here involving in many conversations with your fellow losers.

    You have made quite a few comments like this. Reads like projection to me.

    • Replies: @tamo
  462. @anonymous

    What a joke. By you definition White Americans are not Caucasians.

    Of course they are. But Polynesians are not Chinese, and your science article doesn’t try to claim they are. You must’ve seen the words “East Asia” in the headline and just made that assumption about them on your own.

    Country boundaries are later invention. Both Chinese and Polynesian are descendents of ancient proto East Asians. Roughly the Chinese ancestries can be split into 4 male y DNA linages, O3 group mostly from Central China, O2 mostly from North China, O1 from South China, and the misc other groups. Polynesians are from the O1 group, so are those Vietnamese, Thais, Malays, Filipinos, Hawaiians, Maoris, etc. Those O1 that remained in South China were the ancestors of almost 1/3 of the Chinese like the Cantonese. In fact some of them still maintained their ancient identity living in Taiwan.

    I lived in Taiwan for over ten years. No one would ever mistake the Taiwan aboriginals, who are linguistically and genetically descended from the Lapita, for the Chinese.

    The exact time of the invention of the compass was in the fog of history but it was during the inter tribal wars period before the 9 tribes allied to become one. The ancestors of the Polynesians were in the immediate vicinity where compass was discovered/invented.

    You’re starting to sound like that Gavin Mendes nut, but one who is greatly expanding his scholarly purview to a much earlier date. I half expect you to start waxing on the topic of the Chinese discovering America.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    , @anonymous
  463. res says:
    @Pincher Martin

    Tamo does not seem to realize how strongly his style indicates unseriousness..

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  464. tamo says:
    @Pincher Martin

    I’m going to quote some more from Frank’s ReORIENT. Robert Adams writes that few if any salient technologies of the Industrial Revolution can be thought as science based in any direct sense,

    They can be better be described AS CRAFT BASED in important ways. and he concludes that SCIENTIFIC THEORIES were relatively UNIMPORTANT in connection with TECHNOLOGICAL INNOVATION UNTIL THE 19TH CENTURY.

    Adams’ most generous conclusion is that it must be emphasized the scientific discovery was NOT THE ONLY initiating or enabling agency behind the waves of technological innovation, NOR was it apparently,NECESSARY ONE.

    Through the 18th century in Britain only 16% of 680 scientists, 18% of 240 engineers , and only 8% of “notable applied scientists and engineers” were at any time connected with Oxford or Cambridge; moreover, over 70% of the latter had no university education at all.Instead,

    Adams and others trace technological advances primarily to CRAFTSMANSHIP, ENTREPRENEURSHIP, AND even to religion. Indeed, Adams credits technology with far more contribution to the advancement of science than the reverse . You might not like Frank but I have a lot of respect for him. He was very prescient about the rise of China.It’s too bad that he passed away in 2005.

    You said” While some post-modern scholars like to claim that the Industrial Revolution had nothing to do with the Scientific Revolution, and some of them even question whether there was even a revolution(s) at all, I go with the traditional and commonsense view that the Industrial Revolution is impossible to conceive of without the Scientific Revolution happening first”.

    This statement clearly represents our different positions on so-called scientific revolution. My position is the former and yours is the latter. It looks like you are not change your position and neither do I.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  465. tamo says:
    @Pincher Martin

    One thing about you, you are full of wishful thinking with your head buried in the very warm sand, lol !!!

  466. anonymous[378] • Disclaimer says:
    @res

    > originally from Zambia

    That says nothing about his ancestry. For example White Americans are not Native Americans. Surnames give hints of ancestries. Europeans often mistaken other people’s given names as the official surnames or vice versa. For example the former Secretary General of the African Union Jean Ping was born in Gabon but Ping is the given name of his father, a Chinese, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Ping#Personal_life , and his mother the daughter of a Gabonese tribal chief, his former wife is the daughter of a former President of Gabon and so his children will most probably be assimilated to Gabonese as the political elites. Jean Ping got an Economic PhD from University of Paris.

    If it is Chanda, there is the odds of 58:42 that it is of Indian rather than Zambian ancestry. Chisala/Cisalah is also an Indian name, depending on how you spell it.

    • Replies: @res
  467. anonymous[378] • Disclaimer says:
    @res

    You forgot where you are.

    • Replies: @res
  468. tamo says:
    @Pincher Martin

    Nothing is going to change our positions. So you keep yours and I will keep mine. That’s all it’s to it.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  469. @res

    Tamo does not seem to realize how strongly his style indicates unseriousness.

    He doesn’t bother me in the slightest. I’m having a lot of fun.

    He came into this thread believing he knew more about this subject than anyone here because he’s read a handful of the usual books that push more credulous readers into a certain ideological direction. Those books diminish the accomplishments of Western culture, which I assume is his own, and enhance the accomplishments of other cultures. Certain in this belief, Tamo is about as original as your typical Western leftist undergrad.

  470. anonymous[378] • Disclaimer says:
    @Pheasant

    They steal technology and yet they are the top dog in 5G?? Weird logic. You got things in reverse.

  471. anonymous[378] • Disclaimer says:
    @Tim Stevens

    Every Native Americans knows from 10,000 years ago this was a Native American nation.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  472. @tamo

    I’m going to quote some more from Frank’s ReORIENT. Robert Adams writes that few if any salient technologies of the Industrial Revolution can be thought as science based in any direct sense.

    I’m asking for the second time. Who is Robert Adams, and why should I care about his views on the SR? I don’t have my copy of ReORIENT available right now, and Google is not helping me. I read that book about fifteen years ago.

    You might not like Frank but I have a lot of respect for him. He was very prescient about the rise of China.

    Being prescient about the rise of China over the last thirty years is about as interesting as being prescient about the rise of America, circa 1890 – 1920.

    • Replies: @tamo
  473. @tamo

    You could at least do the courtesy to all the readers of this thread by answering this question which I put to you:

    What books have you read whose ideology you disagree with? For example, name a “Eurocentric” history of the Scientific Revolution that you have read. I bet you can’t. Not a recent one, anyway.

    Well?

    You’re always complaining about us “Eurocentrics.” Well, show us how you have read our books and why they don’t make any sense to you.

    • Replies: @tamo
  474. @MAOWASAYALI

    Or do you blurt out whatever comes to your mind?

    Well, in this case, yes, I was just wondering how we know for sure it’s 1400 years old. I didn’t do any research.

    renovations from 1952 to 1956 were widely criticized by society for the renovation changed its essential appearance and structure

    The Bridge of Theusus

    If it’s is really that old, it has held up remarkably well. And it’s great they still let people walk on it. Old stuff like the Collosseum is usually behind a rope. I would be scared to walk on a 1400 year old stone structure.

    The Chinese construction is so much better than the Romans. The Roman bridges are all crumbled and in ruins.

    [MORE]

    Aesepus Bridge

    Ponte Rotto

    Pont’Ecciu, Allai, Sardinia

  475. d dan says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    “Harvard has every right to discriminate in favor of someone”

    They don’t, even they take a single cent of taxpayer money

  476. tamo says:
    @Pincher Martin

    Robert Adams’ name is in the reference section on page 361. He wrote a book titled, Path of fire: An Anthropologist’s Inquiry into Western Technology printed by Princeton University Press.

  477. tamo says:
    @Pincher Martin

    A lot of text books at school when I was growing up in a non-Western country (the country is now a developed country with a very high per capita income).I specially didn’t like the school world history textbooks centered heavily on western history and achievements. Eventually I got sick and tired of it. By the way, I’m not Chinese. I want to ask you a question. Did you really read Temple’s THE GENIUS OF CHINA?

  478. Robert Adams’ name is in the reference section on page 361. He wrote a book titled, Path of fire: An Anthropologist’s Inquiry into Western Technology printed by Princeton University Press.

    As I wrote before, I don’t have the book in front of me. But you have given me enough information for me to now find Adams by using Google.

    I wonder why Frank relied on an anthropologist to come to any conclusions about technology during the Scientific Revolution? I’m not a stickler for a scholar needing to drive in his lane (Needham didn’t and he certainly succeeded), but Adams showed no previous interest in the SR before this 1996 book and no interest afterwards. No wonder I’ve never heard of him.

  479. @anonymous

    ‘Every Native Americans knows from 10,000 years ago this was a Native American nation.’

    …and the moral of that is that it’s essential to control who you let in.

    • LOL: Malla
  480. @tamo

    Did you really read Temple’s THE GENIUS OF CHINA?

    Of course I did. Why would I need to lie about such a thing? It’s an easy enough book to read.

    I lived in Taiwan for over ten years, during the nineties and oughties. I speak Mandarin Chinese and read Chinese characters. So just out of general interest, I read many of these books years ago. My recall of them isn’t perfect, and I’m sure I’ve forgotten many details, but I read them (and many others like them).

    If you’re unable to tell from the content of my posts that I’m not bluffing, then I suspect you do have a reading comprehension problem.

    • Replies: @res
    , @tamo
  481. anonymous[378] • Disclaimer says:
    @Pincher Martin

    > If we Indians are such IT/Software geniuses then why do Indian Institute of Technology (IIT) teams perform so poorly in programming contests like the IBM ACM contests?

    The Programming Contests are for university students. With open travel, the brightest Indian students are already flocking to US universities with university as the units. It is different for the Chinese where they even need various tiers of government permissions just to move from one town to another in the country, let alone travelling overseas. Do you think China will let their brightest students leave if they are not the children of the Politburo?? Russians are similar but not as strict.

    • Replies: @Malla
  482. anonymous[378] • Disclaimer says:
    @Pincher Martin

    > But Polynesians are not Chinese

    Did I said they are Chinese?? I said they are both descendents of the proto East Asian. You were talking about the “ancient navigators” whose descentdants are the modern Polynesian, before there are any identified as “Polynesian” or “Chinese”. Were you talking about the ocean going “ancient navigators” or the modern “island hopping” Polynesian? Dont put words in my mouth. Look closely at the second map, where do their Y DNA O group lineage come from,

    There were description of those ancient people in ancient Chinese history text, sometimes they alligned with the “Ancient Chinese”, sometimes they split off. They were noted for their tatooed bodyies and stilt house, which you can still see in some modern Polinesians. One particular group called themselves “Yue” as spelled by the Chinese or the French “Viet”, they are pronounced the same. The modern Cantonese dialect is still called “Yue” in Mandarin. Unfortunately the descendents of the rest of those ancient people cannot identified themselves by their similar or other ancient names.

    http://sino-platonic.org/complete/spp017_yue.pdf

    “Tattooed Faces and Stilt Houses: Who Were the Ancient Yue?”

    Recent archeological evidence excavated at Hemudu, a site in northern Zhejiang Province south of Shanghai (Zhejiang Provincial Museum 1978), suggests that were we to step back in time to the 5th millennium B.C. in southern China, we would find people cultivating wet rice, raising water buffalo and living in houses perched high on stilt posts. Culturally, these people differed radically from the millet growing pit dwellers found in the Yellow River Valley region; their discovery has raised new and important questions regarding the development of culture and civilization in southern China.

    For example, Bmaean, author of the 1st century B.C. Shi Ji, noted disapprovingly that the Yue had short hair; they tatooed their bodies; dothee themselves with garments made from plant fibers; and lived in villages (on stilt houses) (Shi ii “Yue Wang Gou Jian Shi Jia”: 1739). In contrast, men from the Central Plains wore their hair long and bound it up “properly” with a hairpin; did not tattoo their bodies or faces; clothed themselves with luxurious fabrics made from silk; and preferred living in urban centers.

    These men of Vietnam are just one group of people who figured into this broader notion of the Yue.

    The DNA data are more conclusive. Compare in the principal components admixture chart, the distance for the Southern Chinese (pink +), Vietnamese (pink diamond) with Tongan (green triangle) or Tahitian (green +). Taiwanese aborigines (black circle) and Melanesian (purples) are much further away from them.

    You are starting to sound like Trump. Twisting other people’s words and creating your own “facts”.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  483. Well, the Cherokee might like to have a country, too. Perhaps he should recommend that you go back to Europe.

  484. Mj says:
    @Malla

    Check out “Between the Devil and the Dragon.”

    Contains the True Believer plus other fine essays and aphorisms of Eric Hoffer.

    • Replies: @Malla
  485. @Jon Claerbout

    A friend with not one but two Nobels (he was chasing a third when he died) told me hair-raising stories about the politics of high-end science and the Nobel process. Politics are heavily against Chinese scientists. Give it time…

  486. @tamo

    Eventually I got sick and tired of it.

    Understandable, but why is your getting sick and tired of it of interest to anybody else? Why should it be?

    Counterinsurgency

    • Replies: @tamo
  487. @Alden

    I keep answering that question but people keep asking it. The answer is COMPETITION.

    To quantify it, we have about 36,000 folks with an IQ of 160+. China has 330,000 of the buggers.

    Talk to anyone who went to school there. It will turn your hair white to imagine yourself reincarnated, with your current abilities, in such an environment.

    Here’s a great confession from and escapee: The Western Elite from a Chinese Perspective. By Puzhong Yao. American Affairs. https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2017/11/western-elite-chinese-perspective/

    • Replies: @res
  488. @Pincher Martin

    Can you provide a page reference for Needham’s claim that the Chinese discovered powered flight and Newton’s First Law of Motion in the 3rd century?

    Thanks

    • Replies: @res
    , @Pincher Martin
  489. @anonymous

    Engineering has always been China’s #1 profession (after government officialdom, of course, which is a different matter). Hydrological engineering is–or at least was–the most prestigious branch.

    The Chinese have deified several engineers, including Yu the Great, who created a system of emergency reservoirs and communications that tamed the flooding of the Yellow River four thousand years ago and developed an agricultural system by planting rice and other water heavy crops and advised the residential farmers to start breeding fish, ducks and geese. Philosophically, the Chinese have always favored working with nature, rather than against it.

    Li Bing, governor of Shu in 272 BC, witnessed the frequent, devastating flooding of the Min River because spring meltwater burst the banks at a heavily silted stretch. Unable to dam it since the river carried grain to frontier troops, Li spent eight years cracking the rock by heating and cooling it, creating a channel sixty feet wide through Mount Yulei, to discharge the flow onto a dry plain. lmost overnight, Chengdu became a major rice bowl, the region became wealthy and the population doubled, giving the Qin kingdom enough people to support its army as it expanded control of its territories. By 221 BC, the Qin kingdom united all opposing states under the rule of the first Chinese emperor, Qinshihuang. Li Bing’s duty was to be an ingenious, cooperative problem-solver for the common good (emperors loved problem-solvers).

    Dujiangyan Temple, at the site of his triumph, honors Li as God of Waters and Chengdu’s fourteen million people and 2,500 square miles of farms still depend on his system for their water. Gods, who are democratically elected, are often real people who, like Li Bing, demonstrated real godliness by enriching them and people deified them to remind rulers wishing to be remembered by posterity (what Chinese doesn’t?) should enrich their subjects–the only ones who can vote them into the pantheon.

    President Hu Jintao, who officially opened the Three Gorges Dam, was a hydrological engineer.

  490. Beijinger says:

    In Chinese internet, we have one saying/joke like this:
    ‘If China acquires one key technology, whatever it was, it becomes cabbage technology; if China don’t have one technology, whatever it is, it’s high-tech.’
    This is sarcastically the current situation with the Chinese world factory position and Chinese scale. Many truth doesn’t really matter that much under Chinese scale.
    Now I find that it’s also the same case for even ancient Chinese, though ancient world don’t need any world factory since there is no such EXACT thing called ancient WORLD.
    Again truth doesn’t matter that much since we failed the 1st round industrialization, even the 2nd round or 3rd round. Fail, fail, and fails.
    So no argue please, no debate about how exactly the situation was for ancient China VS ancient West (again what exactly is this?).
    We failed.
    Huge fact admitted and hard lessons learned. We are well taught: winner takes all, might is right, no credit for the losers.

    As for the title: Why Harvard Is Right to Discriminate Against Asians.
    Yes please, reject, discriminate, persecute, put them in prison, or what’s better, just send them back.
    Those Asians study or work in Harvard, in Ivy league, in research centers or institutions, just send them back.
    You don’t want them anyway, those dumbass will do nothing but drag you down, oh yeah copying and spying, for sure, what else can they do for you? While we will always welcome them back.
    So it’s a win-win. Just send them back.

    • Replies: @d dan
  491. TTSSYF says:
    @Chanda Chisala

    I find it odd that you’re being viciously attacked by so many supposed “race realists” or others who regularly comment on this website and fancy themselves free-speech libertarians. It was an interesting and well-written article. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t recall any part of the article that said the reader had to accept every word you wrote.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  492. TTSSYF says:
    @lavoisier

    Agreed. It’s puzzling why so many regular commenters are attacking it and him so viciously.

  493. @Malla

    “A lot of Indians are just gas bags. From CEOs to poor workers, chest thumping is very common here.”

    Alas, you prove the point!

    • Replies: @Malla
  494. Anon[309] • Disclaimer says:

    I agree.

    No one has alluded to the AngloSaxon admixture from whence the major push towards innovation originated and continues to dominate whether Europaen, American, Irish or South African. In fact almost any country settled by English or German peoples.

  495. As someone who can respect the fact that being exposed to students from various ethnic backgrounds is a good thing, and who also doesn’t necessarily want a future where Chinese and Ashkenazi Jews comprise the entirety of the intellectual elite (although I would rather have the former group than the latter!), this article is making me cringe. There are some decent arguments that the author could have used, but she chose to ignore them for some reason, and the argument she started with is just factually wrong.

    Actually, (East) Asians develop at a SLOWER rate than Europeans, who in turn develop at a slower rate than Africans. Shouldn’t this be obvious? So, when you base your main argument on a statistic that is actually the opposite of what you claim, aren’t you just disproving your own point? Shaking my head…

    • Agree: d dan
  496. If Asians are so poor at creating and innovating, why do the best automobiles and electronics disproportionately come from Japan?
    I’m not ‘politically correct’. I don’t care about ‘racism’ or whatever. But honestly, practically speaking, I don’t see much how these stereotypes and judgments about large swaths of people are very helpful. What is the reaction supposed to be?
    Is a high school teacher supposed to focus more on one race of students and less on another?
    Should the classes themselves be racially segregated?
    Just like there’s more to a person’s worth than their IQ, SAT scores, or GPA, there’s also better ways to judge people than race.
    Yes, race is real.
    Yes, race matters.
    However, there are many, many, things that matter much more.

  497. res says:
    @anonymous

    The original link I gave includes a photo. I take it you have not clicked through to look at it during our entire exchange?
    https://jsk.stanford.edu/fellows/class-of-2009/chanda-chisala/

    His Twitter account also includes a photo: https://twitter.com/chandachisala

    The final link I gave shows quite clearly that Chisala is a Zambian name not an Indian name.
    https://forebears.io/surnames/chisala

  498. res says:
    @anonymous

    Please explain. The original commenter’s response clearly indicated you missed his (?) sarcasm. Perhaps you don’t understand where you are? A fair number of commenters here seem to have some kind of caricature in their mind concerning others here.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  499. @Malla

    You’re a gasbag par excellence!

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @PorkTastic
  500. res says:
    @Pincher Martin

    Of course I did. Why would I need to lie about such a thing? It’s an easy enough book to read.

    In my experience one of the best ways to detect liars is to watch for unsupported accusations of lying. That projection again.

    I’m still waiting to hear more about how Tamo read ALL of Needham. Even the 5 volume abridgement looks to be about 1500 pages.

    I don’t even want to hazard a guess about how many pages are in all 27 books (though I gather 8 came after his death).
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_and_Civilisation_in_China

    If you’re unable to tell from the content of my posts that I’m not bluffing, then I suspect you do have a reading comprehension problem.

    That’s a big part of the reason I think he is projecting.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  501. @res

    Kenneth Kaunda was a good man, along with the Tanzanian, Julius Nyere…

  502. Gee and yuropeans still had to steal gun powder from inferior Chinese.. and worse.. the 0 from heathen ayrabs..

  503. Malla says:
    @Poupon Marx

    I’ve seen India on the scene and Hindus around the world, from top to bottom. Many of them are crassly materialistic, but I am not to judge generally.

    We are greedy materialists who talk a lot about spirituality. Our Godmen (& Godwomen) are the best examples of this. “What did you bring to this world, what will you take away?”, “This material word is maya (illusion)” “Give up your material desires to experience bliss”, preaches the godman before he leaves in his expensive Mercedes Benz car to his million dollar villa (the land stolen from poor peasants/ Govt Land/ Forest Land [Elephant corridor]) to folic with his favorite female (in many cases male) “devotees ” in his special love chamber.

    • Replies: @Poupon Marx
  504. Malla says:
    @Anonymous Snanonymous

    I did not ask you to describe yourself.

    • Replies: @Anonymous Snanonymous
  505. res says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Interesting article. Thanks.

  506. tamo says:
    @Pincher Martin

    No. I don’t have a reading comprehensive problem. I perfectly understood what you said. But I have tendency to distrust people like you.

  507. tamo says:
    @Counterinsurgency

    No, I really don’t care whether my getting sick and tired of it is anybody’s interest.

    • Replies: @Poupon Marx
  508. @Malla

    Is that a comeback? Grow up and report back!

    • Replies: @Malla
  509. Right, so according to Chisala logic, scoring unusually high in a children’s game == very complex environmental factors depressing black and hispanic IQ! (I see you decided to just extend this for some reason to hispanics, despite the fact that iirc the original [asinine] article focused on African over-performance in scrabble and didn’t feature hispanic over-performance)

    Whereas a higher IQ advantage in childhood that slightly narrows into adulthood must surely prove inherent racial differences (unlike the gap between whites and blacks which actually BROADENS into adulthood, the causes of which are definitely VERY COMPLEX and vague).

    And how can Chisala with a straight face defend this moronic conclusion with an appeal to asian underachievement in innovation while also trying to handwave away the far vaster and more persistent black under achievement in basically every measure of academics and technological advancement? (This is of course excepting the very important metric of performance in children’s games – or at least excepting those particular games that Chandra would like to focus on).

    Chandra is such a dunce, his own argument is vastly more effective AGAINST one of his primary positions – Blacks undergo puberty and develope faster than other races, hence their horrendous academic performance in relation to other races is even less excusable as some very complex and vague conspiracy to keep a brotha’s IQ down.

    DISCLAIMER – I fully support all efforts of admissions boards in the Western world to discriminate against asians, but also against blacks, browns, and jews, all of whom have already benefited from the social, legal, and economic infrastructure of white nations and have been undue beneficiaries of the plunders of white dispossession and disenfranchisement.

  510. MarkinLA says:
    @Donald A Thomson

    Old habits die hard. Back in the old days when processors were slow and memory was small, “just good enough” usually meant that any upgrades or additions meant a whole redesign. Now it just means swap out the processor card for the latest one.

  511. d dan says:
    @Beijinger

    ‘If China acquires one key technology, whatever it was, it becomes cabbage technology; if China don’t have one technology, whatever it is, it’s high-tech.’

    This is VERY true. Recently, I read an article reviewing the progress of China space program, after listing China’s achievements (e.g. manned flight, space lab, space walk, soft moon landing…), the journalist turns around and asks why does China want to do all these, even when US has lost the capability to do most of these today. Guess what his own response?

    A very sour grape answer: because they are simple and easy.

    “So it’s a win-win. Just send them back”

    You are too subtlety would ellude the ignorance here who lack back fact. Google: Qian Xuesen?

  512. res says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Hopefully Pincher Martin has a better response (or maybe tamo will demonstrate his erudition here?), but I was interested in the question so took a look around. This page gives what looks like the powered flight reference (c. 317?): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamboo-copter

    They give the reference as:
    Joseph Needham and Ling Wang (1965), Science and civilisation in China: Physics and physical technology, mechanical engineering Volume 4, Part 2, pp. 582–583

    This page gives an ancient Chinese reference (even older, 2400 years ago) for Newton’s First Law of Motion
    https://www.uh.edu/engines/epi2080.htm
    No specific Needham reference there, but you can find the quote they gave (search for cessation) at
    https://archive.org/stream/ScienceAndCivilisationInChina/Science_and_Civilisation_in_China_Vol_4-1_Physics_and_Physical_Technology_Physics_djvu.txt

  513. @tamo

    One should care if others, in the majority, find one boring, vulgar, immature, and lacking common sense. You are that person. Your arguments are stale, superficial, and sourced from very limited origins and references. Your arguments are overwrought and fraught with hysterica, vulgarity, and immaturity. Aside from content internally, your character oozes matter like a pimple.

    You are a cliche, as one who has taken a freshman or sophomore survey class in the humanities or social sciences and feels armed and dangerous-even to make sweeping pronouncements and analysis of complex subjects.

    Remember the Monty Python skit? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmInkxbvlCs&frags=pl%2Cwn

    Just go away. Get off the bus and let someone else have your seat.

    • Replies: @tamo
  514. @Malla

    Such objectivity and veritas is most commendable. It seems really good things are rare. I have gotten into a lot of trouble and shunned by other Greeks for daring to be critical and expressing negative comments about the general character and behavior of modern Greeks. They are low on my list of people to hang out with. In fact, one friend in Greece said that Greeks are found at opposite ends of the continuum: on one end are the worthless, lazy, and dishonest. On the other opposite, are the best people in the world. Competent, honest, etc, etc. The latter are a minority. I can testify to this analysis.

    As one gets older, convenient lies and self deception are easier to jettison, like dead or toxic weight/cargo.

    Theodore Dalrymple, a retired British prison psychiatrist writes on the human condition and character with considerable wit and knowledge on TakiMag.com

    • Replies: @Malla
  515. Malla says:
    @anonymous

    IIT or Indian Institute of Technology have the best and brightest engineering students Mother India can produce, and most of them go to Western Universities only after completing their graduation (Bachelor of Engineering or a B.E. degree) in these IITs. So even if they go to Western Unis, they pass through IITs first.
    And from people I know within the IIT (many of my relatives are IIT alumni), they take this IBM ACM contest quite seriously and prepare for it for months. But still suck.
    Hell even US Universities where the chest thumping geniuses go to score badly in these contests.
    Russia and China do not take in much Indian “talent”. They do not need Indian “talent”.

    Which is a shocker to this nation of 1.3 billion Indians who believe that without Indian talent, the computer world would just collapse. Indian talent is vital to the software industry apparently.

    Anyways there is more. Not only IBM ACM but even from HackerRank, we find the so called chest thumping Indians do not make it to the top ten programmers in the world. Actually Indians scored below Turks. And check out those “geniuses” from Israel, they suck even more.

    https://www.scmp.com/tech/article/2011992/china-tops-list-best-countries-computer-programming

    https://blog.hackerrank.com/which-country-would-win-in-the-programming-olympics/
    The best Computer programming nations by ranking

    • Replies: @Fair Assessment
  516. tamo says:
    @Poupon Marx

    Hey, Marx retard, I really don’t give a shit about what you think of me,

  517. @Anonymous Snanonymous

    A bloke as self critical as Malla here by definition can’t be a gas bag. At best he engages in self deprecating humor about the negative traits about Indians, his own people, in the west. This is the exact opposite of the general persona of most Indians that I’ve seen in the US. To call him a gas bag makes me question your comprehension of the English language or your motive. I think I’ll pick the latter

    • Replies: @Anonymous Snanonymous
  518. @Astuteobservor II

    I’m “house nigga” because I dare criticize my “co-ethnics”? Why do you think Jews, gays and blacks are so disdained in this country? It’s because they lack the capacity, i.e. honesty, for introspection. Any criticism is immediately deflected as anti-Semitism, homophobia or racism, or “house nigga” if from within. Being convinced of their own blamelessness made them blind to their own faults, making them increasingly unhinged to the point where they are now widely despised for unhinged behaviors like wacko leftism, extreme sexual deviance, fake news media, unscrupulousness, outsized influence on our foreign policy to steer the US towards pointless wars with all of Israel’s enemies, excessive criminality, sinking academic performance, etc. Asians must not fall into the same trap or we too, will be despised. Self-critique is crucial for any group to advance as a civilization. No one group is above criticism.

    Chinese esp. have this bad habit of wanting to “save face” in front of others, so they despise those who bring up their faults. Majority of Chinese are dishonest, materialistic, misogynist, unscrupulous, sloppy, selfish, hive-minded and too chauvinistic for self-critique. I do not begrudge Asians who stay back in Asia, are proud of their culture and want to stay there, but I despise those who emigrated to the West because they obviously prefer western societies, but are too proud to admit it, and still try to talk up Asian cultural superiority at every turn. As far as I’m concern, Asian culture is mostly shit culture, dishonest to the core, which is why I left. Anyone who is so proud of their ethnic culture like you should move the F back to where they came from.

    As Woodrow Wilson once said to a group of new immigrants at a naturalization ceremony: “There are no groups in America. America is a country of individuals. Any man who thinks of himself as a member of a national group has not yet become an American.” I see myself as an individual and do not feel any allegiance to any ethnic group. My allegiance is to those who think like me and share the same values as mine. If this country weren’t so effed up by the wacko sinister (((left))), we’d make Arthur Schlesinger’s The Disuniting of America – Reflections On A Multicultural Society required reading in all high school civic classes.

    • Replies: @Poupon Marx
    , @anon
  519. Malla says:
    @Anonymous Snanonymous

    No. Not a comeback.
    The ONLY contribution an insignificant loser troll like you will EVER do to this grand, majestic Universe is just that: comebacks.

    • Replies: @Anonymous Snanonymous
  520. @res

    Your first link was unconvincing that this was something other than a fan blade to move air over people for cooling. It is rather sycophantic sounding.

    The second and third links are woolly from a Sinophile of extreme proportions. Well, I am too. But as an engineer, I have clearly defined and refined sense of where concrete and material stop and where speculation begin. In summation, this is foggy and reads like a first draft.

    Let me attempt some clarity through the Chinese way of explaining through analogy, parallel, and comparison with other phenomena and processes in the same Universe. Steve Jobs took the idea and prototype of the computer mouse and object metaphor of computer language from Xerox labs, in its elementary form and developed and refined it. Who remembers Xerox? Same with the Google Boys who took the search engine technology from Stanford in their undergraduate years. Same with Larry Ellison, who took an obscure paper from IBM labs and started Oracle from his garage.

    For the Chinese, unlike the West, there was less COMMERCIAL and mercantile impetus and motivation. Many inventions in the West, before and since, have one eye in the lab, and the other on the bank account, due to patents, etc. etc.

    I am impressed by cold, hard, dispassionate analysis. Pretend your life depended on you being right, like mine did in my former profession.

    • Replies: @res
  521. MarkinLA says:
    @res

    The problem with pretending this is the birth of the helicopter is that there is no science in this and it likely isn’t anywhere near close to a real helicopter. You have all seen the childrens toy where you spin the toy and the blade flies off. However, the shape of the top is one of a screw propeller like your household fan and ship propeller. As earlty powered flight pioneers learned, a screw propeller cannot generate the force necessary to propel any significant weight through something as light as air. The Wright’s I think were the first to realize that the propeller needed to be an airfoil just like the wing. Helicopter rotors are airfoils as well. The airspeed needed to generate sufficient lift via a rotor would make any claims of human or animal powered flight ridiculous.

    • Agree: Poupon Marx
  522. @Astuteobservor II

    But no one, I repeat no one has the right to kick any legal immigrant out. Except the exceptions written into law, like criminals.

    Every country can pass laws to do what it wants done. The US can absolutely pass a law to send packing all non-citizens, and enforce the law to strip citizenship from those who gain theirs through falsehood or commit crime. The only people who can’t be deported are natural born citizens, and even then, we could pass a law that retroactively strips citizenship from those born to non-citizen parents. All it takes is resolve.

    • Replies: @d dan
  523. So, logically speaking, what a CEO should actually do is to only hire 20-year old Asians, then, when they turn 30 and are past their ‘expiration’ date, get rid of them all and replace them with a new batch of 20-year olds?
    What utter bollocks.

    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome
  524. @Fair Assessment

    Chinese esp. have this bad habit of wanting to “save face” in front of others, so they despise those who bring up their faults. Majority of Chinese are dishonest, materialistic, misogynist, unscrupulous, sloppy, selfish, hive-minded and too chauvinistic for self-critique. I do not begrudge Asians who stay back in Asia, are proud of their culture and want to stay there, but I despise those who emigrated to the West because they obviously prefer western societies, but are too proud to admit it, and still try to talk up Asian cultural superiority at every turn. As far as I’m concern, Asian culture is mostly shit culture, dishonest to the core, which is why I left. Anyone who is so proud of their ethnic culture like you should move the F back to where they came from.

    Do you even realize how ludicrous and immature this reads? I see a guy at a wimpy bar, slurring out his words, with a half empty bottle consumed in haste. No one within earshot even turns their heads in this besotted sod’s direction.

    Clean yourself up.

    • Replies: @Fair Assessment
  525. @Malla

    Notice how close the US is to India. What happened to all those MIT, Caltech and Carnegie Mellon geniuses? But then how did we end up with the most successful software companies? Is tech more about good ideas and good marketing than good codes? Maybe that’s why our systems get hacked left and right.

    • Replies: @Malla
  526. @Poupon Marx

    I’ve been around enough Chinese to know exactly what I’m talking about. Your understanding of Asian culture is from without, mine is from within. Take off your rose colored lenses and you will see the truth.

  527. anon[837] • Disclaimer says:
    @Fair Assessment

    If you haven’t noticed, Asians are ALREADY despised in America, especially males. We get shit from all other groups, white and black. If you ask me, Asians need more tribalism and a more aggressive attitude towards outsiders, who don’t even see Asian males as human beings worthy of respect. Otherwise, I agree with you this country is fucked beyond repair because of (((them))).

  528. AaronB says:
    @Fair Assessment

    I want to commend you for introducing the role of personality, motivation, and priority into this debate.

    Too often people think innate ability can be measured in the abstract, and performance naturally follows, inevitably.

    Clearly, a smart person with different priorities simply won’t accomplish what you might expect.

    By that same token, whites taking IQ tests simply might not be as motivated as Asians, might not prioritize test taking, and this might be reflected in the modest difference in scores between the two groups – something worth investigating before we go into Chisala’s theories.

    Further, the Asian proclivity for STEM seems to my eyes entirely a question of priorities, and having little to do with innate talent.

    As for your remarks about Asian priorities specifically, I am not so sure. You say Asians prioritize wealth, however Asian countries are poorer than Western ones, and the wealthiest and most successful companies are created and run by whites. Moreover, Japan adopts economic policies that prioritize social harmony over wealth.

    Wealth is clearly related to innovation, and groups who prioritize wealth, like Jews, also accomplish much in all fields.

    Groups that prioritize wealth seem also to prioritize prestige and achievement in general, and the three seem part of a cluster of interests.

    Asians certainly prioritize prestige. Finally, out of do many people, you’d find at least a few outliers – yet somehow we don’t.

  529. Malla says:
    @Poupon Marx

    Such objectivity and veritas is most commendable. It seems really good things are rare.

    Thank you for your kind words.

    one friend in Greece said that Greeks are found at opposite ends of the continuum: on one end are the worthless, lazy, and dishonest. On the other opposite, are the best people in the world. Competent, honest, etc, etc. The latter are a minority. I can testify to this analysis.

    I can testify exactly the same about my people too. But I think things are a little more worse in India than Greece.

    As one gets older, convenient lies and self deception are easier to jettison, like dead or toxic weight/cargo.

    Truth sets us free. It is a great feeling to give up all that PC B.S. and just speak out how it is, describe the universe as it is.

    Theodore Dalrymple, a retired British prison psychiatrist

    Thanks again, I will have a look.

  530. @Chanda Chisala

    You do not belong in a nation built by and for whites Chanda. You have to go back.

    • Replies: @Anonymous Snanonymous
  531. d dan says:
    @Fair Assessment

    “…. we could pass a law that retroactively strips citizenship from those born to non-citizen parents. All it takes is resolve.”

    Translation: bravo to Chinese Exclusion Act 2.0, blah, blah, blah.

    To @Astuteobservor II: You are so right. You have won me over now.

  532. Thirdeye says:
    @Pincher Martin

    Observation of empirical relationships and making vital decisions based on observed patterns on the open ocean (swells, waves, winds, clouds, currents, directional information etc.) is an example of applied science. Pacific Islanders were using relatively sophisticated boats and using sophisticated interpretive skills to survive on the open ocean while Mediterranean peoples were tooling around in glorified rowboats in enclosed waters, mostly within sight of land. They didn’t even have a concept of tides. I’m sure Pacific Islanders would have enjoyed a good laugh it they ever learned of what happened to Caesar’s boats after he landed in Britain.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  533. @Peter Frost

    As an aside, Chanda should be congratulated on this article.

    Thank you for the kind words, Peter.

    I don’t agree with some of his methodology (the ethnic makeup of professors reflects the applicant pool that existed twenty or thirty years earlier), but his general point is valid.

    You may be right re professors, but I’m very skeptical. If it’s true that the only Asian obstacle in professor representation is recency, then at least the newer professors being hired should be overwhelmingly East Asian.

    I googled for two seconds to see if they welcome any new professors at Caltech:

    https://www.caltech.edu/about/news/new-faculty-join-caltech-2017-80741

    Most of these are fairly recent university graduates (except perhaps the first one, from the 90’s). Still very few East Asians. In fact, the department I’m most interested in (Physics, math etc) had no new East Asian hire, apparently. In total, it looks like 2 out of 20 of these new (2017) hires were East Asian, which exactly matches the 10% I estimated in the article.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  534. annamaria says:
    @TTSSYF

    “but I don’t recall any part of the article that said the reader had to accept every word you wrote.’
    — Hope you understand what you have expressed so clearly in your comment.
    Now picture a child who is educated according to your norms of truthiness.

    • Replies: @TTSSYF
  535. @anonymous

    Did I said they are Chinese?? I said they are both descendents of the proto East Asian.

    No, but you wanted to stress a connection. Hence, your initial post to me after I wrote, “They’re not Chinese, if that’s what you’re trying to get at.”

    “What a joke. By you[r] definition White Americans are not Caucasians.”

    And immediately afterward:

    “Country boundaries are later invention[s].”

    So what’s your point about the Polynesians’ origins (which I already knew about) and why they are important in this context? Because it sure seems like you are trying to enhance the connection between the Chinese and the Polynesians.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  536. Observation of empirical relationships and making vital decisions based on observed patterns on the open ocean (swells, waves, winds, clouds, currents, directional information etc.) is an example of applied science.

    No, it’s not. It’s just one of many examples of how primitive peoples used a tradition of folk knowledge that had nothing to do with the “observation of empirical relationships.”

    Sometimes the Gods just tell you to go on long trips when the waves are a certain way. Or to follow certain birds for mysterious reasons. That is not science. Nor even a close facsimile to science.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  537. Malla says:
    @Fair Assessment

    I know it is strange, even in those ACM IBM contests, American students with a mix of Whites and Asians would dominate them decades ago, Caltech, MIT and all that but now the USA does not do that well. Russian, Chinese and Polish Universities are leaving the USA in the dust.

    Is tech more about good ideas and good marketing than good codes?

    Who knows. Anything is possible in Jewamerica where marketing and sales are taken to an extreme. Also why don’t the IT companies not hire more Chinese and Russians as compared to Indians?

    • Replies: @Fair Assessment
  538. Malla says:
    @anon

    ((Hollywood)) does not seem to like East Asian males.

    • Replies: @anon
  539. @Malla

    Don’t wax poetic but rather stick to insignificance as behooves a wannabe… so long, Molly Dear!

    • Replies: @Malla
  540. KenH says:

    I only read part of the article but East Asians should be discriminated against in employment and higher education. America, Canada or any other Western nation doesn’t belong to them and they are trying to capture our nations by increasing numbers and stealth and by infiltrating elite circles and becoming the elite.

    East Asians nations a) don’t let white Europeans mass migrate to their nations and b) would never allow them to displace the natives in college institutions.

    China looks upon their expatriates in the West as colonists to eventually take control of the Western nations wherein they reside without firing a shot.

  541. TTSSYF says:
    @annamaria

    It is an opinion piece, is it not? As was my comment.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  542. @PorkTastic

    Porky…

    You ain’t gonna learn much about a billion+ from a self-hating curry-muncher; if anything, you ought to either question your gullibility in believing her BS hook, line and sinker or better yet, you should be questioning her motives, which seems all too suspect because the degenerate is trying to get to the top of hateful hearts in the West by stepping on skulls of the very people who have given her gift of being, of which she doesn’t seem deserving.

    AS

    • Replies: @Malla
  543. @anon

    East Asians are increasingly despised because of the huge inflow in the last three decades. The FOBs fit into the stereotype a little too well, esp. the Chinese. They are mostly loud, ill-mannered, uncouth, pushy, materialistic, grade grabbing, clannish and speak horrible English, making old timers look bad. Many are also in this country illegally, or commit crime like operating birth hotels, sweatshops, growing marijuana in safe houses, running immigration scams etc. If all those who came in in the last two decades, esp. those from mainland China and HK are sent packing, Asians will enjoy better welcome in this country.

  544. @anon

    If you haven’t noticed, Asians are ALREADY despised in America, especially males.

    Not true. Asian women are beloved and their sexual capital is a highly coveted asset, mostly by white men, but also by men of other races.

    It seems that the men are finally starting to command some heft of their own, too, at least on the dating market. In my region the sight of Asian male/white or non-Asian female couples have become an increasingly common sight over the past decade.

    If you ask me, Asians need more tribalism and a more aggressive attitude towards outsiders, who don’t even see Asian males as human beings worthy of respect.

    Interestingly enough, their tribalism tends to be trained on each other rather than on outsiders. Koreans, especially, tend to be (at least in my experience) the most discriminatory, expressing profound disdain not only for the Japanese, but even for Taiwanese, Chinese, Vietnamese, etc. Then there is the tendency of East Asians in the US in general to view themselves as something apart (and superior) to their Southeast Asian kinfolk.

    • Replies: @Fair Assessment
  545. anon[837] • Disclaimer says:
    @Malla

    Of course not. It amazes me how cucked and degenerate the average white American is these days. Hostile to Asians but loves sucking nigger and kike cock. Fuck them. I love reading news about them dying from opioid overdoses. What’s your background if you dont mind me asking?

  546. Mj says:
    @Poupon Marx

    The inclusive “all” was due to him being a generalist. I think it was in “Working and Thinking on the Waterfront” where he quotes economist Walter Bagehot that to illustrate an idea one has to “exaggerate much, and omit much.” For him he said that writing was like drawing a caricature—you emphasis the salient features. Plus, stylistically-speaking, the use of “all” sticks in the mind. Hoffer was in no way an academic (that is, in the connotative sense of the word—he lectured at UC Berkeley for a time). With words he was lucid, urbane, and economical—the diametrical opposite of an academic.

    • Replies: @Poupon Marx
  547. @Malla

    IT companies do not hire more Chinese because they think Chinese will steal the technology. India on the other hand, is a “democracy” and an “ally”, therefore, no such fear for these scam artists, scam away!

    This country is committing suicide by letting in such large numbers of Chindians, two of the oldest and most corrupt cultures in the world. Congress is getting ready to pass House Bill 1044 which will expedite green card approval for 300,000 H1B holders, 80% are Indian, and EB5 holders, 80% Chinese — all massively corrupt. The elites in this country are selling it down the drain. Democracy is the best government money can buy. Trump campaigned on ending illegal immigration and sharply curtailing legal immigration. So far he hasn’t done much to stop the flow of illegals and he’s actually trying to expand legal immigration, a total lying POS scum.

    • Replies: @Malla
  548. @Godfree Roberts

    Can you provide a page reference for Needham’s claim that the Chinese discovered powered flight and Newton’s First Law of Motion in the 3rd century?

    Res has already provided you with some sources that are as good as anything I could provide at hand.

    Since you seem to be interested in physical science and technology, I’ll provide a source that gives you some of Needham’s claims about China’s early scientific accomplishments in those areas, with footnotes to Needham’s work, so that you can pursue them on your own if you wish.

    China, the West, and World History in Joseph Needham’s “Science and Civilization in China”

    In Needham’s perspective, the paradox was that the West in the fifteenth century gained headway over the East by employing technologies that it did not invent, while China for many centuries had developed and applied “a theoretical science that did not exist.” In the realm of technology, the “morphology” of the steam engine largely was discovered in China some 500 years before the time of James Watt (d. 1819); the lineage of the internal combustion engine, as well as of gear transmission shafts, began, respectively, with Chinese bombards of the Song period (960-1279) and perfume lamps of the Han (206 B.C.E.-220 c.E.); the precursors of the Wright brothers and modern aerodynamic notions were kites flown in the period of the Warring States (480-221 B.c.E.) and speculation on the dynamics of flight by Daoist adepts in the reign of the Eastern Jin (317-420); and the logic of the modern computer can be traced back through Leibniz’s binary arithmetic to Neo-Confucian study of divinatory symbols in the I Ching. In the realm of theory, thirteenth-century Chinese investigation into the phenomena of magnetism helped “to achieve the great synthesis of Isaac Newton”; ancient Chinese research on elixirs of life represents the “ultimate source of all medical chemistry and chemotherapy”; the contending principles of Yin and Yang functioned as a sort of “prototypic wave theory”; the Daoist denial of the fixity of biological species came “very near to a statement of a theory of evolution”; Mohist reflections on conceptual model making in the third and fourth centuries b.c.e. were rediscovered and developed by James Clerk Maxwell, Erwin Schrödinger, and Ludwig Wittgenstein; and Daoist appreciation of relativism and the immensity of the universe represents a “groping after an Einsteinian world-picture.”

    In the article on page 289 and 290, you’ll find footnotes to Needham’s work for all these claims. Enjoy.

    In Winchester’s biography of Needham, which I mentioned earlier, the Cambridge professor first comes across anecdotal evidence that the Chinese might’ve flown some device when a Chinese man tells him that a Chinese invented the airplane but was “rightly executed” for it.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  549. @res

    Res,

    Yesterday, you asked me for a few critical sources on Needham’s work. After going back to reread a couple of Toby Huff books I own, I found an excellent one. I linked it in my response to Godfree Roberts, but in case you don’t see it, here it is: China, the West, and World History in Joseph Needham’s “Science and Civilization in China” by Robert Finlay.

    It’s an excellent and short read. I think you’ll enjoy it.

    In particular, I hope you take note of the sections on page 290 (which I quoted to Godfree Roberts above), and this one on page 301:

    [Needham’s] claims about the impact of Chinese inventions on Europe hinge on unsubstantiated assertions about considerable technological diffusion. While admitting that he sometimes overemphasizes the Chinese tech contribution to theWest because he wants “to redress a balance” which has previously favored Europe, he also contends that those who wish to maintain the independence of Western invention in a given case must show that there was no Chinese contribution? – that is, they are obliged to prove a negative. He presents no evidence and little argument that the arrival of Chinese innovations in Europe stimulated the Renaissance, capitalism, the absolute state, the Scientific Revolution, and the Industrial Revolution. In assuming that China and the West may be treated as “almost a test-bench experiment” in antithetical values, he merely opposes one unexamined cluster of notions with another, a procedure in which accolades for China and censure for the West substitute for inquiry and evidence. No one has produced such an idealized portrait of China since Voltaire and other sinophiles used its supposed virtues to denounce the corruption and oppression of the ancien regime.

    Also, read the final section on Needham’s massive influence in how Zheng He’s expeditions were portrayed in Western historiography. It’s eye-opening. And I had no idea about this until I read it last night.

    • Replies: @res
  550. @res

    I’m still waiting to hear more about how Tamo read ALL of Needham. Even the 5 volume abridgement looks to be about 1500 pages.

    Good luck with that. I’m still waiting to hear from him about any sources he might’ve read that balance out the idealized version of anti-Western crap he’s picking up through his selective reading.

    I don’t expect I’ll get an answer.

  551. @Thirdeye

    My reply to you is at post #554.

  552. @KenH

    East Asians nations a) don’t let white Europeans mass migrate to their nations and b) would never allow them to displace the natives in college institutions.

    You clearly have never lived in Japan. White Anglophone immigrants make up a loud, obnoxious, and growing community of busybodies there, ever ready to lecture the natives on the errors of their ways. The Japanese, despite what you believe, have mostly acquiesced to their whims on “social justice”, gender/sexual nonsense, and mass immigration.

    China, Vietnam, and South Korea are also highly vulnerable to the social contagion spread by this parasitic population.

    • Replies: @KenH
  553. @Nicolás Palacios Navarro

    It’s no different from how Northern Europeans feel about Southern or Eastern Europeans, or how Indians, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis and Sri Lankans feel about one another. But I personally know of quite a few Japanese male/Chinese or Korean female, Korean male/Chinese female pairings.

  554. Mj says:
    @anon

    Asian men, East Asian men anyway, are an economic threat. They can accomplish much on a factory floor or in the boardroom. Asian women, a sexual threat. That they’re a sexual threat to white, western females is blindingly obvious to anyone with eyes. Examples abound but, in my experience, try Daegu, South Korea (the hometown many Miss Korea contestants, I hear).

    And, ironically, no small part of those opioid deaths that so warm your heart, are due to outsourcing production to Asia. No compassion for working class white men, I guess.

    • Replies: @anon
  555. @anon

    Claims to be a high caste curry-muncher but most likely a half-breed coolie out of Canada… don’t get taken in by the act.

  556. You have a cultural difference and there are many groups that have similar issues. Simply put, being a Mandarin is not the same as an entrepreneur, nor be a priest, a man of the book, is not going to have much luck with pragmatic activity.

    Some can do it some don’t want to. Look at the able who never go beyond entry level.

  557. @James Scott

    Are you a real Scott? Back to the highlands in your kilts or a pinafore if it suits better… Rob Roy would be ashamed of you!

  558. anon[837] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mj

    In my experience, working-class white dudes are hypocritical cowards who like to take out their aggression on Asians while being too cowardly to fight back against the kike and nigger degenerates who are the ones fucking things up for both whites and Asians.

    • Replies: @Mj
    , @Malla
  559. Chinaman says:
    @anon

    Leave that country then. Why subject yourself to these indignities and slights? Why live with the feral animals in a zoo?

    We don’t need to be more aggressive, it is that them need to be more civilised. Don’t go down to their level.

    • Replies: @anon
  560. res says:
    @Poupon Marx

    Let’s be clear here. I gave the relevant Needham references (or tried to). That does not mean I agree with them. The helicopter one does sound weak. The Newton’s First Law reference sounds better to me. Perhaps along the line of ancient Greeks mentioning the idea of an atom compared to Ernest Rutherford experimentally determining the basic structure: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rutherford_model

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  561. Malla says:
    @anon

    Well it is Jewish programming. Jews love promoting blacks but hate East Asians in general but most of all, the Japanese. Jews and their hollyweird tend to hate the British, Germans and Russians too. They are promoting blacks breeding with Whites to produce low,IQ slave races. That is the impression I get. East Asians guys are high IQ and capable. Thus Jews would not want East Asians to breed.

    But why would anyone want to see that Hollywood sewer entertainment is beyond me. It is the opposite of reality mixed with some predictive programming.
    My background? I am North Indian from India.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Hacienda
  562. @Fair Assessment

    Absolutely, I agree. Those sort of pairings were even common during the Empire of Japan period, too; not only with Japanese males taking non-Japanese Asians as wives, but also with quite a few Japanese females marrying into non-Japanese East Asian families.

  563. Mj says:
    @anon

    I don’t doubt your experience. I’ve observed the same (minus the racial epithets). And it’s obvious why it happens. But enjoying the news of deaths of low class whites? Even they deserve compassion, have abilities.

    This is apropos of my earlier comments on Eric Hoffer. Many of his writings address your very perspective towards degenerate whites. He spent much of his life living and working among such people. In fact, in his first work, The True Believer, he quotes the Old Testament story of the building of the Tower of Babel where it says “..and slime had they for mortar.” They might be white slime, so to speak, but they are still people of some potential and a people who deserve to be treated with decency. Today, they are a people for whom so many feel an unjustifiable malice.

  564. Malla says:
    @anon

    kike and nigger

    Kikes and Niggers are protected by the deep state, kikes more than niggers, obviously. Lay a hand on any of them and the media will bray for your blood. Suddenly the slimey kike or the useless black will become a genius man with ‘so much potential’ attacked by ‘evul KKK/Nazi loser’.
    East Asians are not given much deep state protection. Nor are Whites actually.

    • Replies: @Anonymous Snanonymous
  565. Malla says:
    @Fair Assessment

    The Chinese might be low trust population but at least a large number of them behave first world like in places like Singapore, Taiwan, Hong Kong etc… Only a small percentage of Indians behave First World.

    • Replies: @Poupon Marx
  566. Christian Nationalism for the West is the only way to ensure independence and avoidance of servitude to either Tikkun Olam neo-babelism, or The Heavenly Mandate.

    I don’t want to live in social credit of either Chinese or Jewish hue.

    If Chinese and other Asians gave any indication that they could embrace civic nationlist considerations of freedom and individualism their alliance would be very welcome.

    Can any of the Chinese on this board explain why it is that Chinese-Americans (a ridiculous phrase) vote for the Democrats so reliably? Is it because they are another case of dual-loyalties, and vote for the party which will destabilise and destroy the United States as a competitor?

    Genuinely curious.

    Chinese contempt of the Baizuo is very welcome. But we don’t want to have to live under a social credit score.

    If in the end the Chinese law-suit against Harvard is just the replacement of one low-trust, high performance ethnocentrism with another, whites need their own Ivy League.

    Replacing Jewish Neo-liberalism with Chinese Fascist-Capitalism neo-Communism isn’t really appealing.

    Why not just have Christian European Nationalism? Shrug.

    Just one European billionaire could repeat the discrimination charge on behalf of white people that the Asians are going to win with. Because as Unz has pointed out, it’s multiples higher discrimination.

    And it amuses me mightily when the top percentile of the top percentile of the top percentile of populations billions large who get educated in the United States express disdain for their fellow citizens.

    You usurpers really don’t want the effects of the magic dirt to wear off.

  567. Malla says:
    @Anonymous Snanonymous

    Unfortunately for you he has had some experience with us desi kinds (and that includes you Miss ‘not so mystery meat anymore’), so your desperate posts may not have the effect you desire.

  568. @Malla

    “Kikes and Niggers are protected by the deep state, kikes more than niggers…”

    You putrid cunt! You ain’t no Indian living in India. You are a fucking imposter!

    • Replies: @Anonymous Snanonymous
  569. East Asians are not given much deep state protection. Nor are Whites actually.

    That is because of the widespread perception, even among Whites, that East Asians are “whiter” than Whites themselves. Accusations of being “White” among racial minorities is usually code for “too successful”, “too smart”, “lacking in self-destructive traits typical of minorities in the US”, or a combination of all the above. I presume that Whites and Jews in key social gatekeeper positions tend to regard Asians, especially East Asians, more or less along those same lines.

  570. anon[837] • Disclaimer says:
    @Chinaman

    I have no desire to live in Asia, I’ve been there before and it’s not much better for Asian males lol. Also you have a very cowardly attitude that’s common among Asians. Asians are bullied everywhere and are treated like shit even in their own countries because they are not aggressive enough. Fuck that civilized bullshit, the world belongs to those who aren’t afraid to fight for their dignity and survival.

  571. MarkinLA says:
    @Pincher Martin

    Seeing the complex patterns in the wave swells and ferreting out its basic directional components is like the savant calculating 20 digit numbers multiplied together in his head.

    If you lived in a society whose survival was dependent on navigation you would expect almost all males to be exposed to these navigational skills. You would alo expect that those who excelled would be important members in the community.

    If you were at this for a few thousand years, I imagine your population would develop significant innate ability.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  572. @Anonymous Snanonymous

    Christ! A white trash hiding behind a saree…