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What Obama Should Have Told Bibi
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Bibi and Obama

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Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is currently making one of his periodic devastating plundering raids on Washington and New York. During his visit he discreetly picked up a bunch of large checks from the Wall Street crowd, benefited from the plaudits dutifully delivered by the media and chattering class and has even met with President Barack Obama, whom he quite openly despises. Netanyahu and Obama carefully concealed their mutual dislike when in front of the cameras but the president also made all the right noises about Israel’s security “needs.” Apparently all the violence occurring in Israel-Palestine is the fault of the Palestinians and Israel always has the right to do whatever it wants to defend itself. Obama will follow up on the meeting by throwing billions of dollars of additional Danegeld at Netanyahu as a token of America’s undying love and fealty to Israel’s interests.

One wonders if Obama had his fingers crossed behind his back to indicate that he was lying to Bibi except for the intention to come up with more money, which is always an easy way out for America’s ruling class. It is generally convenient to pay off blackmailers like Netanyahu in hopes that they will stop whining. The president will in any event have to prepare himself to endure the usual firestorm coming from GOP presidential candidates later this week over his less than enthusiastic support for America’s greatest ally and best friend, which would have been a consequence of the visit no matter how it had turned out.

Last Thursday a full page ad placed by the World Jewish Congress appeared in the Washington Post, New York Times and the Wall Street Journal. The group’s president Ronald Lauder, the cosmetics company heir, provided the White House with suggestions for how to deal with the visiting Israeli leader. Predictably, he delivered some debatable assertions in constructing his argument as to why the president and prime minister should kiss and make up.

Lauder wants to “reinvigorate” the relationship with Israel because “never has this relationship been more important.” Wrong Ron, the Israeli connection is an enormous liability for the United States strategically speaking that has cost well in excess of $100 billion to the American taxpayer and has done untold political damage. Compared to other strategic partners in the region including Turkey and Egypt Israel is of little or no importance but for the fact that it has an enthusiastic, politically powerful and extremely wealthy domestic lobby conniving on its behalf. Which includes you, Ron.

Lauder goes on to cite “human disaster in Syria, ISIS moving on Iraq, [and] Iran’s bid to destabilize the region.” Well Ron, the human disaster in Syria and ISIS in Iraq have been caused by policies pushed by Israel and carried out by the United States, all starting with the Iraq war which was initiated at least in part for Israel by a cadre of neocons in the Bush Administration. Iran may not be a friend of the United States, but its support is desperately needed to eliminate ISIS and help stabilize Iraq. As always, Israel sees a U.S. led military solution to each and every problem dealing with Muslims. That might provide a comfort zone for Israeli politicians but it is bad for the United States and to be completely honest it is not even good for the Israeli people.

The ad also cites “the ongoing violent attacks against Jews in Israel” and that Israel is the “only democracy” in the Middle East. Ron, more than seven Palestinians have been killed for each dead Israeli, many of them shot execution style, but you seem to have forgotten that. The simple solution to the attacks would be for Israel to give up its endless and endlessly brutal occupation of the West Bank as well as its siege of Gaza. The knifings would end.

And what about democracy when it only applies to Jews? Netanyahu has proposed expelling thousands of Palestinians from East Jerusalem, where they and their ancestors have lived for centuries. And the continuous theft of Arab land and destruction of their livelihoods proceeds at an accelerated pace. If Ron Lauder and his friends really cared about suffering humanity instead of only the Jewish subset he would be using his considerable leverage to complain directly to Netanyahu and ask him to reverse his policies.

And how to fix things? Lauder claims that Netanyahu has “the greatness, the vision and the courage to move this relationship forward on a positive path.” Sure. And pigs have wings. Let’s face it Ron, Bibi is quite likely clinically insane. Even many Israelis are saying so, though they still vote for him based on his government’s relentlessly implemented and self-fulfilling program of inciting fear of Arabs.

For what it’s worth, this is what I propose Obama should have said to Bibi but didn’t, with a transcript of the conversation also faxed over to Ron Lauder at the World Jewish Congress:

  • “Nice to have you back Prime Minister, but not really as it’s close to lunchtime, to which, incidentally, you are not invited. Why don’t you stay home? You have been interfering in our politics and denigrating both me personally and my office for far too long. How would you like it if I were to go to Israel and endorse one of your opponents? If you keep up this crap I will revoke your visa and you’ll never visit here again.”
  • “And by the way, your plan to expel thousands of Arabs from East Jerusalem and to shoot kids throwing stones at your occupying army is not acceptable to us. And then there are new reports of your harvesting organs and other medical transplant material from the bodies of Palestinians that you have killed. There’s a long history of that in your country, but it’s a bit much even by your standards, isn’t it, and it begs the question whether there is anything that you won’t do. Next time a motion comes up in the United Nations condemning your brutality we will support it. Maybe we’ll co-sponsor or even propose it to show that we’re serious.”
  • “We are running out of money here in Washington and are thinking of cutting benefits to our own people. I note that Israelis have free medical care and university education, which means that we are subsidizing things that we Americans do not have so it hardly seems fair. We have been giving you more than $3 billion in aid every year and also looking the other way when you benefit from tax free charitable contributions that actually are illegal under American law. By executive order, I am stopping the cash flow and asking the IRS to look at your friends over here.”
  • “And speaking of Israel’s many friends, your good buddy at the State Department Victoria Nuland is now working down in the mail room. And I am asking the Justice Department to register the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) as a foreign agent, subject to having its finances and operations monitored by U.S. authorities. Oh, and your spy Jonathan Pollard will be denied parole later this month and will be the guest of a federal prison for the next twenty years.”
  • “I cannot see where you have done anything for us except complain. As you are now pledging Israel to continue its occupation of Palestinian land and ‘live by the sword’, meaning the killing of Arabs will accelerate, I am suspending all military cooperation with you until you come up with a plan to remove most of your settlers from the West Bank. Come back when you have something to show me. Don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.”

Well, okay, it was never bloody likely to happen that way, but I can dream, can’t I? If you think Obama is spineless when confronted by Ron Lauder and the usual suspects, just think of how bad it will be when we have President Clinton or President Rubio, proxies for their Israel firster donors Haim Saban and Paul Singer respectively. The new president and his or her staff will have to learn how to perform proskynesis whenever Netanyahu enters the oval office.

 
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  1. Mark Green says: • Website

    Numerous American Presidents since Gerald Ford have complained about Israel’s ‘stranglehold’ on Washington. Even Truman–who unhesitatingly recognized the new Jewish state in 1948–deeply resented the Zionist lobby, writing in his diary that the implacable friends of Israel are “very, very selfish”. This unrelenting political distortion now affects all of Western civilization.

    With that in mind, the case can be made that it is Israel–not the US–that has become the world’s foremost superpower.

    After all, not only do Israelis and their minions shape all Mideast policies (and wars) coming out of Washington, but they enjoy undue influence in London, Paris, Frankfurt, Brussels, NY/Wall St., the Fed, Hollywood and even our courts. The situation is not good. Not by any means.

    What’s worse, judging by the rhetoric and pledges of every wannabe US presidential candidate, this undiagnosed malignancy is going to metastasize further before it’s recognized for what it is.

  2. chris says:

    sadly, a very funny article, Phil ! Thanks !

    The only thing I am shocked about is that “Bibi” came to pick up the check and adulation himself and didn’t have Obama walk to Canossa and wait 3 days to be let in.

    Also, if I may add to your Wittenberg theses, we need to proscribe all companies and oligarchs who support the Apartheid regime, the way we’re currently doing to Russia.

  3. Frankie P says:

    Philip,

    Perhaps it’s time to admit that the US is not just a big idiot being led about by the Israelis and their fifth column in the US; the US is completely complicit in all the mess in the Middle East, Ukraine, etc. The majority of Americans seem to side with the apartheid state in the Levant, and I see NO SIGN of a politician emerging who will take on the Lobby. It’s time to start rooting for the voices of reason, you know, the ones Asshat Ashton Carter says pose strategic threats. Time to drop the nostalgic longing for the way we were and face the ugly present and potentially nightmarish future. All brought to you by your elected representatives in Washington. Either that, or put down your pen and pick up a gun. Time to water that tree again.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    , @KA
  4. chris says:
    @Mark Green

    Very interesting point, Mark: “Israel–not the US–that has become the world’s foremost superpower”

    Their assent to the present situation is truly of biblical proportions; not necessarily in the Armageddon sense, but more in “pride before the fall,” sense (though it’s hard to see how you could have the latter without the former.)

    However, with them at the helm of the world, it doesn’t exactly feel like the onset of the “1000 years of peace;” right now, there seems to be a certain brutality and desperation about their actions, like they’re betting everything on the last card. (by “them” I mean, of course, Likudniks and those who line themselves up with them)

    Being a minority, Jews have usually worked in the background of political movements, shunning the spotlight that associated individuals with their race, but when you make an ass out of the nominal head of the empire, and then go and do your polka in his end zone, you’ve crossed a line from which you can’t return to the status quo ante.

    This relationship will by necessity prove to be the Achilles’s heel of the otherwise, seemingly, unstoppable empire.

  5. Clyde says:

    Obama is yesterday’s papers to Netanyahu who would have preferred to skip the meeting. But when in Washintoon DC you can’t skip out on a presidential summons. Obama needed this meet to give off the appearance of being even handed after screwing Israel on Iran and in countless other ways. Obama is as anti-Semitic as Louis Farrakhan who he interacted with while living in Chicago.

    Obama has been replaced. Netanyahu has been sidling up to Bad Vlad who looks like he/Russia will be providing cover and protection for a colossal Israeli developed (along with Texas Noble Energy) natural gas field off the Israeli coast. The Israelis don’t want to spend billions on natgas infrastructure then have it under constant rocket and missile bombardment by psychos of the Hamas and Hezbollah persuasions.
    So it looks like Israel will under the developing Middle Eastern Pax Russ. Power abhors vacuums, so while Obama has been shrinking the US role there, Bad Vlad is expanding Russia’s in Syria, Iran, Israel and so on.

  6. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:

    Let’s face it Ron, Bibi is quite likely clinically insane.

    Truer words have never been spoke and they literally made me laugh out loud. The huge amount of lies that come out of both sides of the mouths of Netanyahu and his fellow Zionists is unbelievable. They truly represent hypocrisy at its finest.

    Lauder claims that Netanyahu has “the greatness, the vision and the courage to move this relationship forward on a positive path.” Sure. And pigs have wings.

    I guess that it’s to be expected that Lauder, of Estee Lauder cosmetics fame, would try putting lipstick on a pig and then try to make it fly. It’s still a pig no matter how much BS he tries to make-up.

    And, for what it’s worth also, here’s a video of what I was thinking would be my dream of what Obama should have said to Bibi. If ONLY Obama had the balls to treat Bibi like he does this heckler for what he’s done to America and the Palestinians as SOON as Bibi walked into the room before he even tries to say a word… No. Shame on ya. Get out… I’d be cheering Obama’s name like the people in this video. Hell, I’d throw him a ticker-tape parade. If only.

  7. @Clyde

    “…psychos of the Hamas and Hezbollah persuasions”, my well-circumcised friend?

    Nazrallah is the shrewdest, most courageous, and (not incidentally) most successful leader in the Near East.

    • Agree: Vendetta
    • Replies: @Frankie P
    , @Clyde
    , @Vendetta
  8. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @Clyde

    Obama is as anti-Semitic as Louis Farrakhan who he interacted with while living in Chicago.

    What makes you say that he’s anti-Semitic, Clyde?

    “I decry racism and anti-Semitism in every form and strongly condemn the anti-Semitic statements made by Minister Farrakhan. I assume that Trumpet magazine made its own decision to honor Farrakhan based on his efforts to rehabilitate ex-offenders, but it is not a decision with which I agree.” – Sen. Barack Obama (Jan. 15, 2008)

    http://mediamatters.org/research/2008/02/27/russert-persisted-in-questioning-obama-on-farra/142695

    • Replies: @Chet Roman
  9. Frankie P says:
    @Eustace Tilley (not)

    I really enjoy Nazrallahs speeches; I watched one with English subtitles a few years ago, and I was pleasantly surprised by the rational, reasonable explanations and policies he has for the situation in Lebanon, Syria and Palestine. I have since watched many of his speeches. He is a breath of fresh air; he is determined, fair-minded, and resolute. He has the spine that so many western leaders are missing. Grew up in a poor, multi-religious neighborhood in Beiruit. He still understands the importance of tolerance for those of other religious faiths, but he is adamant about the need for justice for the oppressed and displaced. He certainly does NOT hate Jews, but he DOES hate the crimes, past and present, of the State of Israel.

  10. geokat62 says:

    Phil, this article was like music to my ears.

    Speaking of music, you may not look a whole lot like Aaron Neville, but you sure do sound like him. Here, give a little listen:

    http://youtu.be/BXy93iEe2co

  11. November 9 2015
    A day that will live in infamy.

    • Replies: @RobinG
  12. LondonBob says:

    If the Israelis were smart they would trade the occupied territories for the Golan Heights whilst the going was good. International opinion is turning, the narrative has changed and the invasions of Lebanon and Gaza were failures.

    Unfortunately the growth in the religious extremists makes such a rational settlement highly unlikely.

  13. annamaria says:
    @Clyde

    Poor Israel. Ever a victim. A little parasitic exclave for the economic migrants from Eastern Europe, religious fanatics with superiority complex, and disillusioned progeny of kibbutznik. The problem with the US and EU is not so much the obnoxious, apartheid-channeling “chosen” that are suffering from their super ego (legacy of provincial shtettls), but the parasitic habits of using other people and other states to achieve the”chosen’s” goals. From Jacob Shift to Kissinger and to the Kagans’ cabal, the Zionists have been a malicious and destroying presence in the US. It is an open secret, that the last 14 years of the bloody wars in the Middle East have been serving mostly to Israel interests. There is, indeed, a “great vampire squid wrapped around the face of humanity,” which has captured the US Congress and made the US into a substrate serving the interests of non-Americans.

    P.N.A.C: The Plan To Destabilize The Middle-East: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqTq8QL86TY

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/9961877/Cost-to-US-of-Iraq-and-Afghan-wars-could-hit-6-trillion.html

    • Agree: geokat62
    • Replies: @Clyde
  14. @LondonBob

    If the Israelis were smart they would trade the occupied territories for the Golan Heights whilst the going was good.

    Black Gold Under the Golan

    Dick Cheney is an investor in the Texas business that formed an Israeli subsidiary to exploit the shale oil find in Golan.

    • Replies: @geokat62
    , @Vendetta
  15. Sherman says:

    Israel has an “enthusiastic, politically powerful and extremely wealthy domestic Libby conniving on its [email protected]

    Thank goodness for that.

    This more than offsets the hate-filled anti-Israel propaganda from fringe Holocaust deniers like Giraldi.

    • Replies: @Junior
    , @annamaria
  16. I’ve done everything for Jew.

    They’ve done nothing for me.

  17. Marais says:

    “…this is what I propose Obama should have said…”

    I’d settle for:

    Good morning Prime Minister. I believe you know former President Jimmy Carter, who has selflessly consented to be our new ambassador to your wonderful country. He will have full authority over all future aid (if any) and will chair the meeting today. I have other commitments, so President Carter will conduct you to a conference room at DOS. Please give my regards to Ran Baratz.

  18. Clyde says:
    @Eustace Tilley (not)

    Nazrallah is the shrewdest, most courageous, and (not incidentally) most successful leader in the Near East.

    If he’s so smart how come his people walk around in rags same as before there ever was an Israel? All he offers them is war to take their minds off their hungry bellies and their children needing medicines. Allah is a war god. He is bored by peace so the Shiites will duke it out with the Sunnis when there is no one else around around. Now a days we have Alewites (semi-Shiite) fighting Sunni ISIS. Iran funds the Alewite regime and Gulf states fund ISIS. Everyone pitches in to back their favorite. It’s much more interesting to the Islamic world this way, when they have skin in the game.
    Same way you might place a bet on a football game to make it more interesting.

  19. Clyde says:
    @annamaria

    Half or more Israelis are from the Middle East, not Europe so you are wrong. Lots of Israeli Jews look like Arabs and have same skin color. Christians and Yazidi are preyed upon by ISIS Sunni Muslims because they are not armed. The Jews are armed. So big difference in the Middle East if your ethnic group has effective weaponry. You or at least your parents must be Christian. Think less about Israel and more about the ISIS brand of imperialism and Lebensraum that is slaughtering Christian Arabs and destroying Christian villages and communities across Iraq and Syria.

    • Replies: @JoaoAlfaiate
  20. Marais says:

    2,200 more settlement units were approved by the Likud government yesterday as Netanyahu met with Obama. Coincidence?

    http://mondoweiss.net/2015/11/netanyahu-flips-settlements

    America should start deducting $1,000,000 from US aid for each new settlement unit: in this case $2,200,000,000. If Israel has the money to build illegal settlements, it has the money to pay for weapons.

  21. geokat62 says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Dick Cheney is an investor in the Texas business…

    Cheney is also an investor in Haliburton, a company that was awarded no-bid contracts for rebuilding Iraq.

    So this is how the game is played: the US MIC gets billions in armament sales to destroy the Zionist Project’s enemies, and companies like Halibuton make billions to rebuild it. Rinse and repeat.

    If you look at the portfolios of the top Zionists/Israel firsters, they are heavily weighted in these two types of stocks.

    And the best thing about it is if you are God’s chosen, you don’t have any sense of guilt because you know that, on the basis of Exodus 17:14, G-d has promised his people that he will help them “blot out the name” of Amalek.

    So what has become abundantly clear over the last decade and a half is that governments no longer pursue policies that are in the national interest. They pursue policies that are in the interest of the 1%. But I can assure you that their Return on Investment (ROI) is much higher than 1%. Just ask Cheney et al.

  22. geokat62 says:
    @geokat62

    Oh, I almost forgot to ask you something. In another thread, I believe it was Germany Against Itself, you indicated that the edit function was not working.

    Was this a one-time occurrence, or is the edit function still not working for you?

  23. @geokat62

    So what has become abundantly clear over the last decade century and a half is that governments no longer pursue policies that are in the national interest.

    FTFY

    Unless, of course, one holds that the business of America is business.

  24. Realist says:

    It does not matter what Obama does in his time left. Since the ‘Supreme Court’ ruled that there was no limit on the amount of money a person could give in support of a candidate the rich have totally controlled the election process in the US. This plus the fact that politicians have no morals or integrity will drive this country to oblivion. Most of the money comes from rich Zionist Jews in support of Israel.

  25. Rurik says:

    Bibi is quite likely clinically insane.

    Moshe Yatom, a prominent Israeli psychiatrist who successfully cured the most extreme forms of mental illness throughout a distinguished career, was found dead at his home in Tel Aviv yesterday from an apparent self-inflicted gunshot wound. A suicide note at his side explained that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who has been his patient for the last nine years, had “sucked the life right out of me.”

    “I can’t take it anymore,” wrote Yatom. “Robbery is redemption, apartheid is freedom, peace activists are terrorists, murder is self-defense, piracy is legality, Palestinians are Jordanians, annexation is liberation, there’s no end to his contradictions. Freud promised rationality would reign in the instinctual passions, but he never met Bibi Netanyahu. This guy would say Gandhi invented brass knuckes.”

    http://gauhar.com/?p=626

    Psychiatrists are familiar with the human tendency to massage the truth to avoid confronting emotionally troubling material, but Yatom was apparently stunned at what he called the “waterfall of lies” gushing from his most illustrious patient. His personal diary details the steady disintegration of his once invincible personality under the barrage of self-serving rationalizations put forth by Netanyahu.

    >>><<<

    The first of Yatom’s strokes occurred when Netanyahu offered his opinion that the 911 attacks on Washington and New York “were good.” The second followed a session in which Netanyahu insisted that Iran and Nazi Germany were identical. And the third occurred after the Prime Minister declared Iran’s nuclear energy program was a “flying gas chamber,” and that all Jews everywhere “lived permanently in Auschwitz.” Yatom’s efforts to calm Netanyahu’s hysteria were extremely taxing emotionally and routinely ended in failure. “The alibi is always the same with him,” complained another diary entry. “The Jews are on the verge of annihilation at the hands of the racist goyim and the only way to save the day is to carry out one final massacre.”

    there’s more there at the link

    but is isn’t just Bibi. He is a representation of something gone terribly wrong with the megalomaniacal psychopathic id of the Zionist. Where killing teenagers willy-nilly to harvest their organs is considered a ho hum no-brainer. Just like the buying and selling of European young women smuggled in as abject sex slaves, raped, beaten, drugged and literally bought and sold naked on the block as grotesquely as any negro slave in 17th century America. This stuff is all taken for granted by these people, who bring comfy chairs and sofas to watch the shelling of Gaza from the hill tops. Or congratulating their brave comrades in arms as they take pot shots at children playing on rooftops.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUibXSgILv0

    it isn’t just Bibi who’s insane

    • Replies: @Sherman
    , @SolontoCroesus
  26. @LondonBob

    Israel can’t give up the so called “occupied territories.” Israel has not strategic depth without them and would not have survived the Yom Kippur war if she had not held them then. It would be an act of insanity to give them, or the Golan, up.

    International opinion may turning, but those in the know have seen that coming for some time. It will not end well for the enemies of Israel.

    • Replies: @Sherman
    , @JoaoAlfaiate
  27. Sherman says:
    @Rurik

    The “Moshe Yatom” story is a discredited hoax you imbecile. There was never such a person.

    If he was indeed such a “prominent Israeli psychiatrist” his name would have appeared outside of fringe anti-Israel websites when he is Googled.

    If you choose to be an anti-Semite at least be a competent one.

    • Replies: @JoaoAlfaiate
    , @Rurik
  28. Sherman says:
    @Quartermaster

    International opinion is turning but it seems to be turning in favor of Israel.

    China and India are tripping over each other to do business in Israel.

    Today London Mayor Boris Johnson – who has an eye on becoming PM some day – is in Israel and praising the country.

    • Replies: @annamaria
    , @Realist
  29. @Quartermaster

    On the other hand if the zionist enterprise had not been holding Sinai, the Golan, occupied east Jerusalem, etc., etc., the Yom Kippur attack would never have taken place.

  30. @Sherman

    You mean the whole story is a hoax? Isn’t that what some people say about Bibi’s claim that the Palestinians are responsible for the Holocaust (TM) ?

  31. @Clyde

    Are you saying ISIS is practicing ethnic cleansing like the zionists in 1948 and 1967?

  32. RobinG says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    MEANWHILE, for those following the Free Speech trial of RadicalPress publisher Arthur Topham in Canada…..

    http://dissidentvoice.org/2015/11/the-extraordinary-trial-of-arthur-topham/

    Excerpt:

    “The Crown chose to use an expert witness to show hate, and qualified Len Rudner as an expert in Judaism and anti-Semitism. Mr. Rudner’s biography indicates that he is a ‘professional Jew,’ in that he has been employed for the last 15 years by the Canadian Jewish Congress and its successor organization, the Centre for Israel and Jewish Affairs (CIJA). Prior to this trial, Rudner has attempted to force Mr. Topham’s internet service provider to shut down his web site, and has lodged civil complaints against Mr. Topham.”

    and

    “Like a rabbi on acid, Atzmon explained his philosophy, allowed few questions, and browbeat the attorneys. He dealt with his own philosophical approach to Jewishness and the dangers of believing oneself ‘chosen’ and then he got in a few swipes at categories one and two as well. The jury was mesmerized. Later, Atzmon told friends that he had directed his remarks to the juror sleeping in the first row. If he could be made to listen, presumably the others could as well.”

    GILAD ATZMON’S EXPERT TESTIMONY FOR TOPHAM

    http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/2015/11/9/the-expert-witness-part-1

    (This is brilliant. I encourage you to read all.)

    Excerpt:

    “Expert Witness Gilad Atzmon: Correct, yet, the fact that Jews feel hated doesn’t mean that anyone really hates them. It is also be possible that some Jews feel hated because they actually project their own hatred onto others.

    Attorney Barclay Johnson: I am slightly confused here it seems as if we are dealing with a sophisticated multi layered identity.

    Expert Witness Gilad Atzmon: You are totally correct, this topic is indeed confusing and for a reason. Contemporary Diaspora Jewish politics struggles to maintain this confusion because it stifles any from of criticism of Jewish politics. In order to understand this construct we should imagine the following kosher trinity.

    When we criticise Jewish politics (Israel, Zionism, the Lobby etc’) some Jews are“racially offended” in spite of the fact that race, biology, blood or ethnicity was never mentioned. When we criticise Jewish racism some Jews hide behind the argument that we are criticizing their religion. When we occasionally criticise the religion or some obscene Jewish religious teaching we are quick to learn that Jews are hardly religious anymore (which is true by the way). The meaning of it is simple, yet devastating. The Jewish triangle makes it very difficult, or even impossible to criticise Jewish politics, ideology and racism because the Identity is set as a field with a tri-polar gravity centre. The identity morphs endlessly. The contemporary 3rd category (political) Jew is everywhere and nowhere simultaneously, this is the quantum mechanics that is set to supress any possible criticism.”

  33. @Clyde

    Hope so. Supporting the zionist state in Palestine makes the US a target. Let someone else pay for its crimes.

  34. Vendetta says:
    @Eustace Tilley (not)

    Hamas are a gang of worthless psychopaths, but Hezbollah is a real different story. Never found stories about Hezbollah beheading their enemies or stabbing old ladies on the street. Nasrallah is deeply charismatic and clever, and if nothing else you have to respect them for their fighting skills. Best infantry in the Arab world.

    • Replies: @L.K
  35. Vendetta says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Rocket targets in the Golan Heights, an investment plan that’s sure to pay off.

  36. {If the Israelis were smart they would trade the occupied territories for the Golan Heights whilst the going was good.}

    If people were smart, would not write such a dumb line. Golan Heights is NOT part of the occupied land of Palestine (Israel) to ‘trade’ with another occupied piece of land. It has been taken by terrorism and aggression.

    These people are part of Khazar tribe and have NO relations with Palestine, Hebrew people of the region and the ME. They adapted Judaism in 9th century and lived around the black sea. They are COLONISTS at the best. Nathan Rothschild around 1911 told the world that Rothschild family controls the British Empire. He said:
    {I care not what puppet is placed upon the throne of England to rule the Empire on which the sun never sets. The man who controls Britain’s money supply controls the British Empire, and I control the British money supply.}

    Stealing of Palestinian land achieved using $$$ of Jewish plutocracy, Rothschild family, who controlled the British Empire.

    In his diary, Theodor Herzl, describes submitting his draft proposals to the Rothschild Family Council, noting: “I bring to the Rothschilds and the big Jews their historical mission. I shall welcome all men of goodwill — we must be united — and crush all those of bad.”
    Theodor Herzl’s eyes were on Palestine. Thus, he used the wealth of the Jewish plutocracy to buy Abdulhamid II, the Ottoman ruler with little success.
    Modern Jewish immigration into Palestine began in 1882. The Ottoman Government was aware of this influx from the outset, and decided to oppose Jewish immigration to Palestine in 1881, some months before the increased flow of Jews got under way. There was a great pressure from the European on Ottoman Empire to accept Jews to settle on the east bank of the River Jordan, because neither the ruler nor the people of the empire desired to have Jews in their land. Since Abdulhamid did not accept, then HE WAS OVERTHROWN by the Zionist Jews and their stooges in Europe.
    In November 1881, in response to the Anglo-German group’s approach, the Ottoman Government announced that: “Jewish immigrants will be able to settle as scattered groups throughout the Ottoman Empire, excluding PALESTINE.” *
    * Neville J. Mandel, “The Arabs and Zionism”, 1980

  37. Sam Shama says:

    Hello friends:
    Thought I ought to drop a word or two in the mix, having just returned from a work trip in Asia and the ME.

    The mood, as far as I could discern in Asia and India is really one of indifference to the social conditions arising from hostilities the ME. Most of the people I spoke with were familiar with the population movements towards Europe, but remain only mildly interested in the matter. They are however very much in the grip of two things: rising Nationalism and a drive towards economic expansion nary a thought devoted to oppression or exploitation.

    In the Gulf somewhat similarly, while people are more intimately familiar with the Syrian theatre and the unending, pathetic, conditions afflicted upon the Pals, there is a sense of fatigue and even a deliberate indifference to the matter, and at the worst a growing support for Saudi actions and those of Netanyahu! (I was really flabbergasted at this – although mind you, these are the gulf Arabs, never particularly interested in very much, save the price of oil)

    So I come back to State-side, with an odd feeling that the world is not what I had thought it would be, east of our own bearings.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  38. Rurik says:
    @Sherman

    http://www.zoominfo.com/p/Moshe-Yatom/1503303119

    https://rehmat2.wordpress.com/2010/07/08/study-is-mental-illness-a-jewish-disease/

    OK general, well it appears I may have been duped. Won’t be the first time.

    However, if he did or didn’t drive some people to suicide with his playing fast and loose with the truth and his rapid and infamous contempt for the sanctity of human life and dignity of all human beings, regardless of their religion or race, it still has little to do with the facts that we all agree on. He is leading a movement to genocide the rightful and legal owners of the land of Palestine by a campaign of mass-murder and human rights atrocities. His IDF shoots teenagers for target practice when they aren’t running over idealistic American young women with bulldozers who foolishly believe that no man would do such a thing. That poor girl was wrong. We should have all warned her.

    And for the record, general, I’m no more an anti-Semite than I am an anti-Zionist. I believe that all peoples have a right to self-determination. Jews too. I just don’t believe that Jewish self-determination should be achieved by genociding another people off the planet. It creates the Jewish state on a foundation of illegitimacy and the blood of innocents. Perhaps that’s what N. America was built on too, but today, and especially after humanities’ moral maturity following the Holocaust, we ought to know better now. Especially the Jews.

    So yes, I do offer a critique of Zionism as it’s being foisted today, and especially as I’m being forced with my tax dollars and the collaboration of my government at every level of this terrible crime today to be complicit with it. ‘It’ being the murder and theft and humiliation of an entire people for the crime of existing on land that is coveted by others. It’s monstrous and a blight on the human race that it is tolerated, let alone funded and praised.

    So, on that day that the nobility that lingers in the Jewish soul finds its voice, I’ll be there standing strong and proud with my brothers and sisters of the human race. Until that day, as long as psychopaths torment helpless people for the fun and cruelty of it all, I’ll condemn it. And with your help, pointing out when I’m in error, together we’ll get to the truth of it all.

    So thank you general. I’m grateful for your careful vetting of the accuracy of what’s said here, and especially when I’m in error somehow. That is the last thing I want- quite the contrary- and one of the things I love about this place.

    Salaam Alaikum

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  39. geokat62 says:
    @Sam Shama

    Welcome back, Sam. In your absence, I posed a few questions in your direction. Look forward to your responses.

    PS – to expedite the process, you could quickly peruse my archive and do a “Sam” or “SS” search.

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  40. annamaria says:
    @Sherman

    Well:
    “China and Iran’s New Love Affair?” http://nationalinterest.org/feature/china-irans-new-love-affair-13434
    “India and Iran: Challenges and Opportunity” http://thediplomat.com/2015/09/india-iran-relations-challenges-and-opportunity/
    The most important factor explaining the US/UK politicians’ loudly-proclaimed love for Israel is money. The smothering stench of corruption.

    • Replies: @Ivan
  41. @Mark Green

    Actually, Truman recognized the State of Israel and specifically did not want to recognize it as the “Jewish State”.

    http://www.trumanlibrary.org/exhibit_documents/index.php?tldate=1948-05-14&groupid=3429&pagenumber=1&collectionid=ROIexhibit

  42. Sherman says:

    If the Jews are “genociding” another people off the planet they’re not doing a very efficient job, are they?

    The Arab populations of Israel, the WB and Gaza have experienced explosive growth over the past few decades.

    In fact, these areas have experienced substantial Arab growth since Jews brought prosperity to the land and Arabs from surrounding countries started moving there.

    If the Israelis are engaged in “genocide” it’s the most incompetent genocide in history.

    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @Art
    , @Clyde
  43. @Junior

    Not only is Obama not anti-Semitic, he was essentially put in power by the American zionists like the Pritzkers and Crowns and is their obedient puppet. Penny Pritzker, one of the worst fraudsters in the recent financial crisis and a strong opponent of unions, didn’t get appointed to head the Dept. of Commerce because of her progressive views.

    Abner Mikva, the former Jewish Chicago congressman, federal judge and White House counsel to President Bill Clinton said during Obama’s 2008 campaign:

    “I think when this is all over, people are going to say that Barack Obama is the first Jewish president,”

    Some of my earliest and most ardent supporters came from the Jewish community in Chicago,” Obama told the Jewish Telegraphic Agency in 2004, The Chicago Jewish News, October 24, 2008

    Comcast (owned by uber zionists) was among the top backers of Barack Obama’s presidential runs, with Comcast vice president David Cohen raising over $2.2 million from 2007 to 2012.

    I believe part of the reason for Netanyahoo’s disdain for Obama is that he feels superior to the “Schwartza” and feels insulted that Obama doesn’t immediately bend to his will. It’s well known that with the rise of racism and Israeli supremacism that darks skinned people are treated much like they were in Alabama in the 1950′s or very much worse.

  44. @Rurik

    Even as the president of the United States, Barack Also-insane Obama, damned Palestinians and gave Bibi the Insane Netanyahu yet more weapons to kill Palestinians (and Iranians), one mile away, at the Palestine Center, a crowded theater watched and listened as Mads Gilbert displayed photos and played the sounds of children screaming as their shattered bodies were attempted to be repaired by Dr. Gilbert and his fellows after IDF had shattered them with DIME and other hi-tech weapons.

    Night in Gaza

    Chris Hedges has written of the many creative uses Israelis make of the billions of dollars in weaponry that the American people supply to that pariah state:

    A Gaza Diary, by Chris Hedges It is still. The camp waits, as if holding its breath. And then, out of the dry furnace air, a disembodied voice crackles over a loudspeaker.

    “Come on, dogs,” the voice booms in Arabic. “Where are all the dogs of Khan Younis? Come! Come!”

    I stand up. I walk outside the hut. The invective continues to spew: “Son of a bitch!” “Son of a whore!” “Your mother’s cunt!”

    The boys dart in small packs up the sloping dunes to the electric fence that separates the camp from the Jewish settlement. They lob rocks toward two armored jeeps parked on top of the dune and mounted with loudspeakers. Three ambulances line the road below the dunes in anticipation of what is to come.

    A percussion grenade explodes. The boys, most no more than ten or eleven years old, scatter, running clumsily across the heavy sand. They descend out of sight behind a sandbank in front of me. There are no sounds of gunfire. The soldiers shoot with silencers. The bullets from the M-16 rifles tumble end over end through the children’s slight bodies. Later, in the hospital, I will see the destruction: the stomachs ripped out, the gaping holes in limbs and torsos.

    Yesterday at this spot the Israelis shot eight young men, six of whom were under the age of eighteen. One was twelve. This afternoon they kill an eleven-year-old boy, Ali Murad, and seriously wound four more, three of whom are under eighteen. Children have been shot in other conflicts I have covered—death squads gunned them down in El Salvador and Guatemala, mothers with infants were lined up and massacred in Algeria, and Serb snipers put children in their sights and watched them crumple onto the pavement in Sarajevo—but I have never before watched soldiers entice children like mice into a trap and murder them for sport.

    —————-

    All governments lie, as I.F. Stone pointed out, including Israel and Hamas. But Israel engages in the kinds of jaw-dropping lies that characterize despotic and totalitarian regimes. It does not deform the truth; it inverts it. It routinely paints a picture for the outside world that is diametrically opposed to reality. And all of us reporters who have covered the occupied territories have run into Israel’s Alice-in-Wonderland narratives, which we dutifully insert into our stories—required under the rules of American journalism—although we know they are untrue.

    I saw small boys baited and killed by Israeli soldiers in the Gaza refugee camp of Khan Younis. The soldiers swore at the boys in Arabic over the loudspeakers of their armored jeep. The boys, about 10 years old, then threw stones at an Israeli vehicle and the soldiers opened fire, killing some, wounding others. I was present more than once as Israeli troops drew out and shot Palestinian children in this way. Such incidents, in the Israeli lexicon, become children caught in crossfire. I was in Gaza when F-16 attack jets dropped 1,000-pound iron fragmentation bombs on overcrowded hovels in Gaza City. I saw the corpses of the victims, including children. This became a surgical strike on a bomb-making factory. I have watched Israel demolish homes and entire apartment blocks to create wide buffer zones between the Palestinians and the Israeli troops that ring Gaza. I have interviewed the destitute and homeless families, some camped out in crude shelters erected in the rubble. The destruction becomes the demolition of the homes of terrorists. I have stood in the remains of schools—Israel struck two United Nations schools in the last six days, causing at least 10 fatalities at one in Rafah on Sunday and at least 19 at one in the Jebaliya refugee camp Wednesday—as well as medical clinics and mosques. I have heard Israel claim that errant rockets or mortar fire from the Palestinians caused these and other deaths, or that the attacked spots were being used as arms depots or launching sites. I, along with every other reporter I know who has worked in Gaza, have never seen any evidence that Hamas uses civilians as “human shields.”

    There is a perverted logic to Israel’s repeated use of the Big Lie—Große Lüge—the lie favored by tyrants from Adolf Hitler and Josef Stalin to Saddam Hussein. The Big Lie feeds the two reactions Israel seeks to elicit—racism among its supporters and terror among its victims.

    By painting a picture of an army that never attacks civilians, that indeed goes out of its way to protect them, the Big Lie says Israelis are civilized and humane, and their Palestinian opponents are inhuman monsters. The Big Lie serves the idea that the slaughter in Gaza is a clash of civilizations, a war between democracy, decency and honor on one side and Islamic barbarism on the other. And in the uncommon cases when news of atrocities penetrates to the wider public, Israel blames the destruction and casualties on Hamas. Why Israel Lies,” by Chris Hedges

    As commented and linked elsewhere, Kathy Peiss reported with enormous satisfaction that her uncle was among those Jews and other WWII victors who stole, removed, and destroyed books and documents of Nazi racism. The world can never know the truth of that era; as Peiss revealed, the chain-of-evidence has been tainted. Nothing that any Jewish person or Allied victor says can be believed.

    But this time around, the world is watching in real-time, bearing witness, and compiling evidence dossiers, as American and Israeli leaders, and the many American, Jewish and Israeli people who support them, carry on committing crimes against humanity.

    They think they act with impunity.

    Every gutter-level addict and every habitual criminal thinks he acts with impunity.

    But there are witnesses to these crimes against humanity.

    Moreover, there is one certainty in this life: addicts, and criminals, will hit the wall.

    The only question is how many lives will be destroyed until that happens.

    — ah — another question: What can those who witness this destructive behavior do to hasten the moment when those criminals hit the wall?

  45. Rehmat says:

    United States has long become a colony of the Zionist regime. Netanyahu has come to collect increased taxes to the tune of $5 billion per year in military aid from his American subjects. Barack Obama promised Netanyahu that a few months ago.

    Netanyahu has the reputation of calling everyone “antisemite”, even G-d and Bible.

    http://rehmat1.com/2015/11/10/netanyahu-obama-and-bible-hate-jews/

  46. @Rurik

    Rurik,

    Your comment to Sherman was generous and wise.

    But this statement–

    today, and especially after humanities’ moral maturity following the Holocaust, we ought to know better now. Especially the Jews.

    There is nothing that provides more convincing evidence that the holocaust narrative is, shall we say exaggerated in the extreme than the behavior of the Allies and “especially the Jews” in the aftermath of the wars in Europe and the brutality they have exhibited that has only increased over the years.

    The crescendo of chaos that we are witnessing does not signal moral maturity. Rather, it suggests in terms almost impossible to refute that there was something radically distorted in the these actors from the get-go.

    Netanyahu does not have to make ludicrous statements about the Mufti to cast doubt on the credibility of the dogmatized holocaust narrative; his behavior, cut from the same whole cloth as his zionist forebears, and replicated in his colleagues as well as the population he leads, demonstrates in real-time that psychopathology expressed in brutality, not moral maturity, is the dominant feature of the zionist value set.

    I shuddered to hear Bibi state that “the American people and Israelis share values . . .”

    • Replies: @Rurik
  47. @Frankie P

    Perhaps it’s time to admit that the US is not just a big idiot being led about by the Israelis and their fifth column in the US; the US is completely complicit in all the mess in the Middle East, Ukraine, etc. The majority of Americans seem to side with the apartheid state in the Levant, and I see NO SIGN of a politician emerging who will take on the Lobby

    Thank you! Finally one of you retards admits the truth. The American people do not give a shit about what happens to the Palestinians and there is nothing you can do to save them.

    Please educate your fellow retarded Paleocons so the rest of us don’t need to keep listening to their endless complaining on the internet.

    If it makes you feel any better, Israel won’t be an apartheid state much longer, as soon the Palestinians will all be dead or expelled. Enjoy them while they last.

  48. Sam Shama says:
    @geokat62

    thanks Geo,

    Will read and reply soon.

  49. geokat62 says:
    @Greasy William

    If it makes you feel any better, Israel won’t be an apartheid state much longer, as soon the Palestinians will all be dead or expelled. Enjoy them while they last.

    I’d like to know how well your statement would go over if we simply replaced two words in it:

    If it makes you feel any better, Deutschland won’t be an apartheid state much longer, as soon the Jews will all be dead or expelled. Enjoy them while they last.

  50. Ironic that a cosmetics mogul should be putting lipstick on Likud pork. Somehow it just doesn’t seem kosher. Congrats on the NYT op-ed by the way, even though it wasn’t quite like what’s here. Some good comments in response there, though.

    • Replies: @Philip Giraldi
  51. Donald says:

    Just can’t resist this one ……

    Q: What should have Obama told Bibi?
    A: You’re FIRED!

  52. Art says:

    I wanted to vomit when Mufti Netanyahu said that he wanted a two state solution and peace with the Palestinians at the WH yesterday. He sullied the whole world with that lie. Obama was like a zombie.

    Fox-n-Krauthammer must have put that giant lie on air fifty times.

    The control of the Jews over our country is mind numbing.

    • Replies: @RobinG
  53. @Clyde

    Yes, he is greatly to blame for not being able to hop on an El Al jet, address the fawning claque of the US Congress, pose for a photo op with Mr. President, and shake down the goyim for tens of billions of dollars in goyische Schuldgeld. Maybe he should hire some Western “historians” and “scholars” to write a fake Holy Book about the Shia being the Chosen People of A***h having an eternal sacred right to Lebanon. Maybe he should buy the Western Lugenpresse to tell only his side of the story.

  54. Rurik says:
    @Sherman

    If the Jews are “genociding” another people off the planet they’re not doing a very efficient job, are they?

    sounds almost like you’re complaining

    as for the genocide, this is what people are talking about

    also the way the Palestinians jammed into those open air prisons are treated

    it’s an abomination to treat people this way. But you have to have a soul to understand that other people have souls too

  55. Rurik says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    I share your skepticism about the details of the Holocaust. It happened, but to what degree and if there were actually genocidal gas chambers and an official agenda of a so-called ‘final solution’ is fodder for debate. But we’ve all grown up with the tales and grainy images of emaciated bodies and open pit graves. It’s part of our collective sub-conscious, and there is a lesson it it, regardless of the crass and by now tiresome finger pointing, and that is that man can often be unimaginably cruel to man, (and women and child), and that we should all make an effort to listen to our better angels. That’s what I come away from the Holocaust with. Not that Germans are all evil and that Jews are eternal victims- like they’d have us all knee-jerk, genuflect like Pavlovian dogs to that narrative. But rather that we humans can act like demons to each other, and that we shouldn’t. Or something like that. I would like to hope that our moral maturity is somewhere in that lesson.

    If we didn’t learn it from the barbarism of WWII, then perhaps we’ll never learn it. Certainly the evidence of Gaza and Syria and Libya and Odessa and Gitmo and so many other places suggest we’re beyond redemption. But I hope not. I hope..

    • Replies: @L.K
  56. Has anyone else noticed the approval of more settlement housing was timed to Netanyahu’s visit? Sort of like Bibi deliberately had his thumb up his butt ready to pull it out and jam it into the nose of Obama on arrival as in ‘how do you like the aroma’?

    No argument with anything you’ve noted concerning Bibi. But I think you’re far too generous to Obama. American corporate neo-colonialism is drifting towards the world being DC’s occupied west bank, with the Obama/Brennan ‘kill list Tuesdays’, where drone hits are discussed over lunch, resembles supporting occupying settlers outposts. You know, settlers named Lockheed Martin, Chevron, Raytheon and ‘friends.’ Thought I’d bring that up, sort of along the lines of people living in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones… amended to ‘let the stones fly in all directions’

    http://ronaldthomaswest.com/2013/08/22/demons-anonymous/

    ^ it’s a satire that’ll never get tired so long as Netanyahu continues his career as a failed Jewish comedian (in his present leadership iteration taking all the Israelis to hell in a hand-basket with him.)

  57. Art says:
    @Sherman

    “If the Israelis are engaged in “genocide” it’s the most incompetent genocide in history.”

    Hi Sherm,

    Poor you – a victim again. Those darn babies.

    But never fear – your Mufti Netanyahu has big plans. You can count on Obama backing his Big Jew diabolical strategy for the future of the Palestinian people.

    Art

  58. RobinG says:
    @Art

    Want to wretch a little more? C-SPAN showed Bibi live from CAP. Hillary’s harlot Neera Tanden was predictably lame with the soft-balls, passing on the lies. Pathetic.

    http://www.c-span.org/video/?400521-1/conversation-israeli-prime-minister-benjamin-netanyahu

    (BTW, is this where you get your big Jew, little Jew? “…Theodor Herzl, describes submitting his draft proposals to the Rothschild Family Council, noting: “I bring to the Rothschilds and the big Jews their historical mission…”)

  59. MarkinLA says:
    @Greasy William

    Thank you! Finally one of you retards admits the truth. The American people do not give a shit about what happens to the Israelis or Palestinians and want F-all to do with either of them.

    There FIFY.

  60. Art says:

    @RobinG

    “(BTW, is this where you get your big Jew, little Jew? “”

    I do not remember how I started up with the “Big Jew Little Jew” theme. It was on another site some ten years ago. It could have come from Theodor Herzl – I do not know.

    Big Jew Little Jew is effective because it is so true. Within 24 hours of some event, 80% of all Jews come out with the same exact story concocted by the Big Jews. Little Jews almost always support the Big Jews.

    The Big Jews may disagree on something – it may take them 48 hours or 72 hours – but one story will win out.

    An example is the “Mufti Palestinian” lie put out by Netanyahu – most Big Jews hated it and they won out – so today NO Jew will say “Mufti.”

    • Replies: @Art
  61. Art says:
    @Art

    Sorry – this post is a response to a comment made by RobinG

  62. The vomiting of the State of Israel on the people of Palestine was the greatest strategic error since WWII.

  63. @Mark Green

    ” . . . Even Truman–who unhesitatingly recognized the new Jewish state in 1948–deeply resented the Zionist lobby, writing in his diary that the implacable friends of Israel are ‘very, very selfish.’”

    Truman–the failed haberdasher/”Senator from Pendergast”/-turned President–recognized Israel over the strong objections of James V. Forrestal and George C. Marshall. Oh, yeah, and also in return for $2 million in campaign contributions from pro-Zionist sources.

  64. L.K says:
    @Rurik

    “It happened, but to what degree and if there were actually genocidal gas chambers and an official agenda of a so-called ‘final solution’ is fodder for debate.”

    No, it did NOT, not as alleged.
    No, there were NO homicidal gas chambers at the camps.
    No, there was no agenda, official or otherwise, to physically exterminate the Jews.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  65. Realist says:
    @Sherman

    “International opinion is turning but it seems to be turning in favor of Israel.”

    In your dreams.

  66. L.K says:
    @Vendetta

    VENDETTA wrote;
    “Hamas are a gang of worthless psychopaths”.

    One does not have to be a fan of Hamas to understand that your statement is nonsense.

    - It’s Israel, almost everytime, which causes the ‘wars’ in Gaza, does not negotiage in good faith and does not want a 2 state solution. Not Hamas.

    The book ‘Method and Madness: The Hidden Story of Israel’s Assaults on Gaza’, by Norman G. Finkelstein, a well known Jewish scholar (New York and London: OR Books, 2014), addresses these matters.

    Finkelstein writes in the preface that ‘a trio of themes form the connective tissue of the book’s narrative’. First, each attack on Gaza was preceded by a pattern of deliberate Israeli provocations leading to Hamas retaliation by means of largely ineffectual rockets, which Israel then exploited as a pretext. Second, in each case, Israel managed to evade accountability from the international community. Third, each massacre ended in a stalemate and the continuation of the siege of Gaza.

    Israel’s motivations have also remained consistent. Whereas Israel presents its offensives as reluctant responses to Palestinian aggression, the truth, Finkelstein argues, is precisely the opposite. Israel’s provocations and attacks typically follow Palestinian ‘peace offensives’—peace overtures that undermine Israel’s pretexts for rejecting a two-state solution and hence threaten it with the prospect of having to give up land in the West Bank. To forestall an unwelcome peace, Israel instigates a war and brands the Palestinians as ‘terrorists’ with whom no peace can be made. Finkelstein traces this pattern back to the 1982 war on Lebanon and takes the phrase ‘peace offensive’ from an Israeli analyst writing at the time. A second consistent objective behind Israel’s attacks on Gaza is to restore what Israel calls its ‘deterrence capability’ as the dominant power in the region. Finkelstein traces this policy back to the Six Day War. But whereas in 1967 Israel established deterrence by defeating the Arab world’s major military power, the enfeebled Israeli military of today must resort to Gaza as a demonstrative punching bag in lieu of taking on a more formidable enemy, such as Hezbollah.

    But the Palestinian militants at Gaza in 2014(hamas & co) gave the israelis a huge headache… over several days of ground combat, and without any real deep penetrations and occupation attempts, over 530 israeli soldiers were KIA or WIA. The israeli military planners objected deeper thrusts into Gaza on the grounds they’d suffer thousands of casualties.
    Former terrorist and israeli soldier turned zio light/”peace” activist, Uri Avnery, recognized the palestinians fought bravely and skillfully.

    Uri avnery wrote, for example;

    “AFTER 29 DAYS of fighting (until now), who has won?
    It is, of course, much too early to draw final conclusions. The ceasefire has blown up. It will take months and years to sum up all the consequences. But Israeli popular wisdom has already drawn its own conclusions: it is a draw.
    [...]
    WHEN A guerrilla organization with at most 10,000 fighters achieves a draw with one of the mightiest armies in the world, equipped with the most ultra-modern weapons, that is by itself a kind of victory.
    Hamas has not only shown a lot of courage during the fighting, but also surprising ingenuity in preparing for this campaign. It is still standing upright.

    The Israeli army, on the other hand, has shown very little imagination. It was quite unprepared for the maze of tunnels.

    Indeed, as a commentator dared to write, the army has become a heavy, cumbersome, conservative machine.[...]. Its doctrine was, in essence, to pound the civilian population into submission, causing as much killing and destruction as possible, so as to deter the “resistance” as much and as long as possible. In Israel, the terrible pictures of death and destruction did not evoke compassion. On the contrary. People were proud of it.”

    • Agree: Orville H. Larson
  67. Clyde says:
    @Sherman

    If the Israelis are engaged in “genocide” it’s the most incompetent genocide in history.

    Muslims are very competent genociders. For an example today just look at what ISIS is doing to Shiites, Christians and Yazidi. But never a peep here from our Israel-centric commenters here. Israel kills on the retail level (in self defense) while the Muslims do it to each other (Shiite vs Sunni) on the wholesale level. The Muslims wish they could kill off Israeli Jews on the wholesale level but the IDF is too strong.

    In the past the Islamics killed 80 million Hindus over a few centuries when conquering parts of India. Every Muslim from that area has Hindu ancestors if you can go back far enough.
    There is no imperialism like Islamic imperialism and that’s why they covet the land that Jews live on in Israel. A few years back Osama Bin Laden was bellyaching about the Spanish Reconquista. How the Christians had taken back their lands from the Muslim imperialists. This runs against Islamic doctrine (such that it is), that once a land has gone Muslim it must never be permitted to revert back to non-Muslim rule. Israel is a thorn in their side for this same reason.

    Through the ages there has been no imperialism like Islamic imperialism. The heart plucking Aztecs were chumps compared to the Islamic death toll. The peoples Islam has conquered and destroyed through the ages.

    When Obama studied Koran in Indonesia this consisted of him mindless memorizing then reciting the Koran in Arabic. Why? Because Arab imperialism is at the center of Islamic imperialism. In fact Islam got its start as a convenient fairy tale vehicle for Arab conquest/killings/forced conversions of their pagan and Christian neighbors. The Middle East was mostly Christian by the time Muhammad’s armies rolled out in 622. Islamic imperialism destroyed all this.

    The military career of Muhammad lasted for the final ten years of his life when he served as the leader of the ummah at Medina. They also sent out raiding parties against Arabic-speaking communities ruled under the Roman Empire. Muhammad was believed by the Muslims to be divinely chosen to spread Islam in world, and Muhammad ultimately permitted warfare as one aspect of this struggle.[1] After initially refusing to accede to requests by his followers to fight the Meccans for continued persecution and provocation, he eventually proclaimed the revelations of the Quran:

    “Permission to fight is given to those who are fought against because they have been wronged -truly Allah has the power to come to their support- those who were expelled from their homes without any right, merely for saying, ‘Our Lord is Allah’…” (Quran, 22:39-40)”

    • Replies: @Ivan
    , @KA
    , @KA
  68. KA says:
    @Frankie P

    It is easy for us to blame the politicians on the ground of what is right and what is wrong. They are the products of the system . They are the finished and packaged goods ready for serve ,ready for delivery Ashton Carter,H Clinton, Huckabee Carson or Petreus or Fox anchors have gone through the ripening process and been well marinated . They are seasoned and veteran now.
    In some way they could be compared to the priest or lawyers or doctors who have graduated from the program. These people would not have graduated if they did not believe in God/ Bible, respect ing the judge , or in saving life and do no harm.
    Sme but perverse way , politicians wouldn’t have come this far in their careers had they not learnt the essential of American policy regarding Middle East .already . If they had any weird ideas like ” even handed ness or sticking to facts” pertaining to Israel and Middle East,they possibly would not have been even accepted in their youth in any political roles.

    It is true of any politicl system anywhere . But there is a big differrnce. At least in other countries ,it is still about the country concerned – their elite,their business,their financial houses nd military might and not about mortgaging those vital essentials to the whims of a foreign country.

  69. KA says:

    Israel and its supporters have been telling not to trust Hamas or Iran . Israel claim that they hide behind the words and the languages.

    Not that long ago Netanyahu promised that here would be no Palestinian state . His predecessors have said that stopping settlement is kind of ruse to keep America quiet before the visits .Dennis Ross has claimed that settlement is not the problem but problem is Palestinian insistence to stop settlement . Now Netanhyu promising American of him having good intention of working towards a Palestinan state . ( http://m.jpost.com/Israel-News/Politics-And-Diplomacy/Obama-to-Netanyahu-The-security-of-Israel-remains-a-top-priority-432495#article=6024MTBCOUM5MjgyMThCMEU0QTQ1QUM1N0UwODIxNzExRUE=)

    Language does help Israel in hiding its thoughts quite well
    .

    • Replies: @Avery
  70. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @Sherman

    This more than offsets the hate-filled anti-Israel propaganda from fringe Holocaust deniers like Giraldi.

    You keep making this claim of Mr. Giraldi being a “Holocaust denier” and yet you have yet to give any proof. So? Care to share some examples with links or are you just going to keep on making unsubstantiated libelous claims?

  71. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:

    I could not BELIEVE during the GOP debate last night that John Kasich said the following words, “In Israel, we have no better ally in the world. No more criticizing them in public. We should support them.”

    No more criticizing them in public?! We are going bankrupt, our infrastructure is literally collapsing around us, and have an untold number of unemployed struggling Americans. Yet we send BILLIONS to Israel in aid and arms. BILLIONS. And the MOST important of all, we send OUR loved ones to die in THEIR wars. Why? What the hell have they EVER done for us other than bring us grief? And he doesn’t want us discussing how we benefit from and whether we should even BE supporting their Apartheid Regime?! Israel gets criticized because the disgusting-ness of an Apartheid Regime and its stranglehold on our politics DESERVES to be criticized. Unbelievable.

    “To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” – Voltaire

    Here is a link to the debate. John Kasich’s above quote begins at the 2:00 mark. Please click on it if you would like to “simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YvvP49A4lg

    • Agree: Orville H. Larson
    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @Realist
    , @Art
  72. Ivan says:
    @annamaria

    Right on the mark annamarina. Much the world’s hardware is made in China, they also do cut rate software. India is not very far behind in manufacturing and software either. Yet to hear the Israeli partisans tell it, one would think that without them nothing happens.

  73. Ivan says:
    @Clyde

    Can you please check the population of the world at the time when Muslims were in a position to commit genocide against the 80 million Hindus credited to their bloodlust? See if this makes sense against the fact that like the Mongols, they needed a large helot population to keep them in luxury? This piece of fakery may ironically be the only item remembered of Will Durant’s history. The Indian Muslims are largely converts from the lower castes as can be seen from their faces. The upper caste Muslims look different, like the Bollywood faces, since they were largely descended from Persians and Arabs, but these form a minority among the Muslims.

    • Replies: @Clyde
  74. Avery says:
    @KA

    {Language does help Israel in hiding its thoughts quite well}

    Same with your denialist Turk kin and your Neo-Ottoman Sultan lying Erdogan.
    Who are Uyguroğlar Turks from East Asia to rag on Israel ?
    When nomad Turks vacate the lands they are illegally occupying now, then they can legitimately complain about Israel occupying Palestinian lands.

    And Israelis are pikers compared to Turks when it comes to killing.
    How many Palestinians have Israelis killed or murdered since its founding ?
    25,000?
    30,000?
    Max.

    Between 1915-1923 alone Asiatic nomad Uyguroğlar Turks murdered about 4 million Christians in Asia Minor: Armenians, Assyrians, Pontic Greeks.
    Invading Turks are still occupying 40% of Cyprus.
    Who are you Turks to say anything about Israel ?

  75. If history were more fair, Germany would now be a Jewish State and ethnic Germans would be the ones living in the condition of Palestinians…

  76. I don’t get it. The article & comments give me the assumption that everyone here can’t wait for the destruction of Israel/Jews/Jerusalem etc. What is wrong with the Jewish people having Israel/Jerusalem as their homeland? We know – and they (Jews) know the Arabs want them all dead. I’m more concerned with the Pope calling for a New World Order… Please, someone respond.

    • Replies: @Ronald Thomas West
  77. RobinG says:
    @Fran Macadam

    I’ve got to assume this is some weird form of sarcasm…

    Fran Macadam says:
    If history were more fair, Germany would now be a Jewish State and ethnic Germans would be the ones living in the condition of Palestinians…

  78. KA [AKA "Carthage"] says:
    @Clyde

    How was Egypt turned into a muslim majority country?

    Jacobite(Coptic) had been persecuted and mistreated by the Orthodox . Jacobite hated tyrannical Byzantine administrations. (according to Caetani vol 1v p 81 , Justinian is said to have had 200,000 Copts put to death in the city of Alexandria
    Wansleben : THE PRESENT STATE OF EGYPT ,p 11 (London 1678)

    Caetani ( Leone,Principle di Teano): Annali deli Islam (Milano 1905- )

    Coptic or Jacobite became doctrinally more close to Islam by 12 th century .Some declared Jesus to be a man , a prophet .This added to the existing tension and the confusion.
    Egypt embraced Christianity very rapidly and gave up also very quickly . By the 7th century , Christianity had lost hold on the great mass of Egypt.
    Relief from taxation played a part as well.

    Severus: Severus ben el Moqaffa, Historia Patriarcharum Alexandrinorum,ed C F Seybold ( Corpus Scriptorum Christianorum Orientalium , Scripture arabica Ser iii Tom ix ) (beryti 1905 )
    Even in 1290 christian used to have a majority presence in countries of Middle East other than Egypt and Arabia. That is according to the Crusade participant monk by name Burchard. It is most likley a n exaggeration But it tells something about the visibility and the survival of Christianity in Arab land .
    Burchard:Burchardi de Monte Sion Descriptio Terrae Sanctae (Peregrinatores Medii Aevi Quatuor . Ed. J C M Laurent ..Lipsiae 1864

    • Replies: @annamaria
  79. KA [AKA "Carthage"] says:
    @Clyde

    It is invalid and irrelevant to judge the 4 th century or 14 century from the prism of 21 century . It is but very valid to judge the epoch by the same measures that formed the essence of the laws,ethics,and morality of that era across the globe .
    In this age of decolonization , democracy,and support for freedom movement across the world , it is perfectly legitimate to renew same demands for Palestinian . In this age where we fight for LGBT right,women’s rights,protection of children,and allude to Nuremberg ,right to feel secure in one’s own home ,and proclaim property rights and freedom from state violence , it is perfectly normal and legal and moral to fight for the same right in Palestine or Congo or Hondurus or Tibet or Western Sahara .

    In this age where immigrants form the bulk of the population of Fiji,Mauritus, Guyana and of Australia or NZ and where immigrants could become senator and governor in US or UK or Canada or become the dominant power player in Indonesia or Phillipines , it is anachronistic to accept the expulsion and ethnic cleansing in Burma (and that is also under the cover of the democracy !) .
    Activities by the 10 th century Arabs should be judged by the standard the existing or the preceding regimes across the entire universe from China to Britain , from Moscow to Tanzania , and from India to Cambodia were exhibiting .

    • Replies: @RobinG
    , @Clyde
  80. Rurik says:
    @L.K

    No, it did NOT, not as alleged.
    No, there were NO homicidal gas chambers at the camps.
    No, there was no agenda, official or otherwise, to physically exterminate the Jews.

    “as alleged”

    Isn’t that exactly what I said?

    Jews were rounded up and put into camps, if they were suspected of being communists they were shot and likely never even made it to the camps. (personally from my pov, if they were commies, Jewish or otherwise, they deserved to be shot).

    Once in the camps they were often mistreated and from the videos of the emaciated bodies and ditches full of them, it is clear that the Holocaust was real.

    The details of which; whether or not there were homicidal gas chambers, lamp shades made from Jewish skin, soap, shrunken heads, bears and eagles used for killing, geysers of blood blasting out of the ground, lorries filled with Jewish babies that were tossed onto bomb fires, and all the rest of the hysterical lies are a blood libel they use to extort the German people specifically (and all white gentiles in general) who also suffered horribly- and the German civilians especially AFTER the war was over.

    What we know is that the Nazis did run camps for certain ethnicities including Jews, and that those Jews (and homosexuals and Gypsies and others) were often mistreated. That’s what I call the Holocaust. I don’t think that is disputed.

  81. Rurik says:
    @Junior

    He also said the TPP was necessary for jobs.

    Sometimes I imagine using a block and tackle

    it’s a simple device that allows an individual to lift much larger weights that he would otherwise be able to. Part of the reason is the load is lifted slowly. Like the average man could lift a 200lb load right into the air!

    So I imagine listening to someone like Kasich going on …

    “We need to stop criticizing Israel, who is our greatest ally, and we’ve got to finally start getting tough with terrorists like Hamas and Assad and those returning American vets, and we need to be outsourcing and insourcing our jobs to protect our jobs and we need to confront Putin’s aggressions and force him to respect international laww, anddd eeerrr!, wwweesghgrrr ugggrrrssshshsh “

  82. Rurik says:
    @Fran Macadam

    If history were more fair, Germany would now be a Jewish State and ethnic Germans would be the ones living in the condition of Palestinians…

    I hope it’s not against the terms of service but I’m posting some porn just for you!

    http://www.theguardian.com/books/2002/may/01/news.features11

    or especially read this one, it will satisfy all your prurient needs for that void you feel that demands ‘fairness’

    http://rense.com/general39/allied.htm

    more:

    My take is that no innocent person, (even of the German race [if that's possible from your perspective] can absolve the crimes of the criminals who committed them. If I’m not mistaken, it was the Nazi wrath against the Jewish banker class- who foisted the war in the first place- that gave them the pretext to persecute innocent Jews. I don’t think the road to redemption of the human race is to persecute other innocents, be they German, Palestinian, or anyone else. But that’s just my take.

  83. @Invisible man

    “Please, someone respond”

    Ok, I’ll bite. Clearly you’re not familiar with the article’s author and the people commenting or willfully choose not to notice there are people commenting other than anti-Semites, including Hasbara posing as anti-Semites who’re present to smear the article’s author with guilt by association for calling out Netanyahu on his BS. As well there are Jews who disapprove of Israeli policy and hate Netanyahu (e.g. Sam Shama), Goyim who disapprove of Israeli policy who’re NOT anti-Semites and are NOT opposed to the state of Israel in per se (e.g. JR who expects behaviors from Israel conformed to the rules of international law.)

    http://ronaldthomaswest.com/2015/11/11/kafka-the-human-zoo/

    ^ My recent two cents on a great Jewish thinker radical Zionism wishes to claim; contrasted to a more primitive mindset (Jew & Goy alike), it’s not a simplistic black & white subject no matter what certain cretins would prefer & pretend -

    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @Invisible man
  84. RobinG says:
    @KA

    Indeed.

    How long since we were enslaving, beating, lashing other humans? How recently were the British practicing keel-hauling, imprisonment for debt, and execution by drawing and quartering?

    Centuries after the Romans, there was crucifixion and impalement in Europe.

    “Medieval law codes such as the Holy Roman Empire’s “Constitutio Criminalis Carolina” stipulated that malevolent witchcraft should be punished by fire, … the burning of witches across parts of modern day Germany, Italy, Scotland, France and Scandinavia. Historians estimated between the 15th and 18th centuries some 50,000 people executed in Europe. Many of these victims were hanged or beheaded first… Other were still alive when they faced the flames…”

  85. Marais says:
    @geokat62

    “Cheney is also an investor in Haliburton, a company that was awarded no-bid contracts for rebuilding Iraq.”

    KBR (spun off from Halliburton 2007) leads the list of government contracts for Iraq 2003-13: $39.5 billion of a $138 billion total [Angelo Young, IBTimes 19 Mar 2013].

    “I can tell you, Joe, the government had absolutely nothing to do with it.”
    -Dick Cheney, responding to Lieberman’s comment that he had done well financially at Halliburton, October 2000 Debate

    Government had everything to do with it.

    Cheney, who had little business experience and none in the oil industry, was hired as CEO of Halliburton in August 1995. The company’s government business under LOGCAP (which Cheney helped craft as Secretary of Defense in 1992) went from $144 million in 1994 to $423 million in 1996, and $900 million plus in 1999. The company billed the government $2 billion for Project Joint Endeavor (Bosnia & Kosovo) 1995-2000 on a cost-plus basis.

    Under Cheney, Halliburton rose from 73rd to 18th on the Pentagon’s contractor list; it’s government contracting rose 91%. Halliburton secured $100 million in government backed loans from the US Export-Import Bank 1990-1995; under Cheney’s tenure it received $1.5 billion (1995-2000).

    Cheney resigned from Halliburton in July 2000 to run with GW Bush. He cashed in $30 million in stock options and continued to receive deferred salary ($205,298 in 2001; $162,392 in 2002; $178,437 in 2003) and held 433,333 unexercised stock options in 2004. His net worth (after five years as CEO of a private company) was estimated at $70 million plus.

    “governments no longer pursue policies that are in the national interest. They pursue policies that are in the interest of the 1%.”

    The 1% probably share the same belief as Louis XIV: “L’État c’est moi” (“I am the state”). And they’re busy replacing republican democracy with corporate feudalism.

    • Agree: Orville H. Larson
    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @Orville H. Larson
  86. Clyde says:
    @KA

    You are a super commie. You have thrown everything into the blender with that one. Have you ever met a national liberation movement you didn’t like? Uncle Joe Stalin would have liked you except for that LBGT stuff. Stalin was all man and wanted nothing to do with gays. Similar to why Bad Vlad has such a low opinion of the bi-sexual Obama who forces gay US ambassadors down the throats of Muslim and other third world nations just to rub it in their faces. You know those cultures are hostile to gays. They don’t have the tolerance we have here for these yoyos be they Bruce Jenner or whatever is in sexual fashion these days.

    Remember: There is no imperialism like Islamic imperialism and colonialism. Read up on Islam’s bloody historical record when you have the time. It all started with Muhammad’s first bloody wars of conquest in 622AD. His armies also fought for booty, the spoils of war and to procure female sex slaves same as ISIS does today.
    So contrary to your thinking it is correct to judge Islamic war making by how they did it 14 centuries ago because they are still using the same tactics. Especially terrorism.

    [MORE]

    The statement of Muhammad: “I have been made victorious with terror.” The Hadith, collected by Bukhari (4.52.220) goes as follows:
    Allah’s Apostle said, “I have been sent with the shortest expressions bearing the widest meanings, and I have been made victorious with terror (cast in the hearts of the enemy), and while I was sleeping, the keys of the treasures of the world were brought to me and put in my hand.” Abu Huraira added: Allah’s Apostle has left the world and now you, people, are bringing out those treasures (i.e. the Prophet did not benefit by them).

    http://www.exmuslim.org/i-have-been-made-victorious-by-terror.html

    Islamic terrorism, however, did not start in 9/11 of 2001, nor did it start with the Iranian Islamic Revolution in 1979. Islamic terrorism has its origin in the sayings and examples set by Muhammad.

    In the last ten years of his life, after Muhammad migrated to Medina , he launched no less than 78 raids called qazwa (raid, ambush, sudden attack). Some of these qazwas involved the assassination of one opponent by one or a group of volunteers, and others were carried out by hundreds or thousands of warriors. Nonetheless a common characteristic of all Muhammad’s incursions was that they were done without notice. The enemy was caught off guard without being given the chance to prepare himself or be armed. As such all Muhammad’s victims were civilians.

    http://faithfreedom.org/challenge/terrorist.htm

    • Replies: @bunga
    , @bunga
    , @KA
  87. Realist says:
    @Junior

    “I could not BELIEVE during the GOP debate last night that John Kasich said the following words, “In Israel, we have no better ally in the world. No more criticizing them in public. We should support them.””

    This is the sentiment of every presidential candidate, regardless of party. Most of their money comes from rich Zionist Jews.

  88. Clyde says:
    @Ivan

    The 80 million figure is from Hindu websites. This killing was done over five centuries so is a realistic number. You tell me what the worlds population was. The population of India was> Do want to cut this number in half to 40 million?
    I call this Islamic genocide and Islamic imperialism.
    Islam conquest in variable. Sometimes they forcibly convert or you will be killed. Sometimes conquered peoples are retained to slave away and pay the infamous Jizya tax. Sometimes Christian sons are stolen when young, brainwashed into Islam to serve in the Caliphate’s armies. These were the Janissary armies of the imperialist Ottoman Empire. The Christians in the Balkans were forced to submit on this (convert and become Janissaries) because Islam is all about submission to Allah and then to his representatives on earth

    Muslim conquests on the Indian subcontinent mainly took place from the 12th to the 16th centuries (wikipedia)

    • Replies: @Ivan
  89. Rurik says:
    @Ronald Thomas West

    Hey Ronald,

    it seems like once these threads ebb off the radar, they become more or less abandoned and ignored, and so I feel a little more leeway in taking things off topic a bit.

    From your link

    Kafka posits the real nature of freedom and all of its beauty must be surrendered and be conformed to the White anthropomorphic expectation … to escape The Human Zoo..

    this is bizarre

    white ethnocentrism aside (which every race and tribe feels for their own- as they should), what does “the real nature of freedom and all of its beauty” have to do with “White anthropomorphic expectation”?

    you seem to be treating an appreciation for one’s own kind as mutually exclusive to ‘freedom and natural beauty’- concepts that span not just earthly and natural beauty, like sunsets or leopards, but the entire universe and beyond – and reduce all of this to the anthropomorphism of white people who happen to be enamored of their own (as all people should be). What about “black is beautiful”? Is that ethnocentrism also an example of a surrender of all beauty and freedom to anthropomorphic expectation?

    But this escape is at best superficial because of those physical traits Black people possess that White Europeans interpret as relating Blacks to apes. Blacks, like apes, in Kafka’s quite accurate perception, can never be peer to the European whose prejudice is an innate, immutable cultural supremacism based in a superficial narcissism of a White appearance

    What struck me about your essay was the mention of “The Human Zoo”. One of the most influential books I read as a teenager was The Naked Ape by Desmond Morris. His subsequent book was The Human Zoo, also quite good. (I recommend them both). Anyways his point is that we are all apes, and nothing but apes, even if the human ape is in many ways quite extraordinary, yet we are all, in every single way, apes. And that is how we act, just like apes. Territorial, spending our days foraging and hunting (careers) and eating and fornicating and grooming and sleeping and doing all the things that great apes do.

    So I saw a little irony in the way you were accusing white people of seeing black people like apes. We are all apes. Through and though. No matter how much conceit we might muster that we’re like little gods walking around.

    • Replies: @Ronald Thomas West
  90. Rurik says:
    @Marais

    Please also don’t forget that not only Cheney is set to benefit from the oil drilling in the Golan Heights, but also Rupert Murdoch, who uses his media empire to sell the idea that “Assad must go!”, never pointing out the obvious conflict of interest. So every time you hear some shill on Fox News shilling about supporting the “moderate rebels”, that’s Murdoch blatantly trying to steal the Golan from Syria and hand it to his Zionist buddies in Israel.

    http://www.economist.com/news/middle-east-and-africa/21677597-geologists-israel-think-they-have-found-oilin-very-tricky-territory-black-gold?frsc=dg%7Cc

    http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2015/11/11/437193/US-Israel-Golan-Heights-Syria-Neytanyahu-Obama

    • Replies: @Marais
  91. @Rurik

    Hey Hasbara, how’s tricks?

    Desmond Morris? He probably got his impressions reading Edgar Rice Burroughs as a child and ran with them. I notice you’ve neglected altogether the Blacks kept in captivity and on public display in Europe. So, we’re all apes but as Orwell had noted (paraphrased) all apes are equal but some apes are more equal. Like the Great White apes, right?

    Here’s the link again so people interested in your out of context misrepresentations can see your omissions for themselves:

    http://ronaldthomaswest.com/2015/11/11/kafka-the-human-zoo/

    Or, for those who prefer satire (piece includes Desmond Morris)

    http://ronaldthomaswest.com/2015/04/01/merge/

    ^

    • Replies: @Rurik
  92. Marais says:
    @Rurik

    Thanks for the links (I’m woefully behind reading the Economist). Larry Summers, Richardson, and ‘WW4’ Wolsey too! It just keeps getting better and better. Does FNC still have Saudi prince Al-Waleed bin Talal as major investor?

    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @anonymous
  93. Art says:
    @Junior

    I could not BELIEVE during the GOP debate last night that John Kasich said the following words, “In Israel, we have no better ally in the world. No more criticizing them in public. We should support them.”

    What an outrage – Kasich lost it – he is through. We are hearing less and less “I’ll call Bibi on the first day of my presidency and give away the store.” I think the blind support for Israel is not an automatic winner with everyone anymore. I think that there is a voting constituency that does not like the control Jews hold over America.

    If Rand Paul would find the gonads to routinely use the word “neocon” and make more anti-war statements – guaranteed he could make it to the Republican convention.

    • Replies: @RobinG
    , @geokat62
    , @Junior
  94. @Marais

    Piss on “Five Deferments Dick” Cheney, that armchair commando of renown.

    • Replies: @Marais
  95. RobinG says:
    @Art

    And I think you’re succumbing to wishful thinking. “I’ll call Bibi on the first day of my presidency and give away the store,” is EXACTLY what Hillary is saying, and she’s looking increasingly likely. The Dems won’t challenge her, and the Reps don’t go beyond her emails. They won’t call her a bloodthirsty neocon hawk, because so are they.

    Who really disappoints me is O’Malley. His pal Chafee was making good points about foreign policy – which nobody noticed because he shot himself in the foot by bringing up the metric system so that was all the MSM covered. I had hoped when Chafee dropped out that O’Malley would pick up the banner, but no such luck.

    Anyway, maybe all my hopes were ill-founded if the Pope is really pro-Israel. O’Malley’s Catholicism and Jesuit education might have translated into moral diplomacy. His debate points have just been political generalities (for the benefit of the Dem Party). If he’s not playing to win, at least he could call out the Israel Lobby. I guess he’s afraid he’d have no public OR private career later if he did that.

    • Replies: @Art
  96. Rurik says:
    @Ronald Thomas West

    shall I call you ghost of Custer,

    you’ve neglected altogether the Blacks kept in captivity and on public display in Europe.

    sure, Europeans and others put human curiosities on display. Ever been to a circus? But if you’re condemning the European race for that, perhaps as bad as it was, it’s better than what blacks often did to white missionaries during those days. As in New Guinea, the Congo, and elsewhere. Hmm, yummy!

    All peoples have their cultural peculiarities. For civilized (relatively) Europe, the peoples of uncivilized places must surely have been as much a curiosity as any bearded lady or ‘Elephant’ man.

    So, we’re all apes but as Orwell had noted (paraphrased) all apes are equal but some apes are more equal. Like the Great White apes, right?

    No Custer, you have it exactly backwards. In today’s western society, and especially the US, it is strictly speaking the great “white” ape who is officially and “legally” treated less equal. Told to get to the back of the line for jobs and promotions and university or medical school slots. Denigrated in movies and print, his ancestors smeared as evil. But never enough to satisfy the raging resentments of some of those self-purported ‘more equal than other’ apes.

    I wonder what the chances are of non-white apes of handing over the reins of their nations and societies to white people out of a sense of sympathy and compassion? – Two things that whites seem to have in such abundance that there’s no amount of self-flagellation that will ever sate the hate of some other.. apes.

    • Replies: @Ronald Thomas West
  97. Rurik says:
    @Marais

    Wolsey too!

    I know

    I consider him to be one of the very top worst human beings on the planet, and perhaps the worst traitor to “his” country alive today. A real piece of work that guy. And there they all are.

    • Replies: @Marais
  98. annamaria says:
    @Sherman

    “Israel has an “enthusiastic, politically powerful and extremely wealthy domestic Lobby conniving on its behalf..”
    Conniving against whom? And for whose expense? The victims of the WWII included the enormous numbers of other non-arians, for instance, Slavs, yet the Holocaust Museums are focused on one ethnic group only. The deaths of Palestinian children and teenagers by Israeli weaponry are more than a stain on the Israeli narrative of Holocaust – the collective punishment of the civilian populations on the Israel-occupied territories, and the astonishing murderous behavior of Illegal settlers, make a rejection of the moral loading of the Holocaust narrative. Zionism is an ugly and malignant disease that puts conscientious Jewery in a difficult position. Zionist has evolved into the apartheid practices, warmongering, stealing other people’ land and property, while generously dressing the rationale for these activities with theocratic source and often-questionable historical claims.
    The current discussion is actually about the Zionists’ disloyalty to the countries of their comfortable dwelling. The USA have been used by Israel via the US Zionists; this use was and is parasitic.

  99. geokat62 says:
    @Art

    If Rand Paul would find the gonads to routinely use the word “neocon” and make more anti-war statements – guaranteed he could make it to the Republican convention.

    Didn’t his father, Ron Paul, have “the gonads to routinely use the word ‘neocon’ and make more anti-war statements,” but he still didn’t make it to the convention?

    People need to wake up to the fact that the political system has been hijacked by the 1% (otherwise known as the 4 big Bs: Big Banking, Big Pharma, Big MIC, and last but not least Big Zion) and they are not about to relinquish it voluntarily.

    Big changes are needed and they are not going to come from within the system itself.

    • Replies: @Art
  100. schmenz says:
    @Greasy William

    I congratulate you, Greasy. For cold-hearted, reptilian, merciless cynicism you have no peer. The other Israeli cheerleaders here cannot hold a candle to you.

    I want to go out and vomit.

  101. bunga says:
    @Clyde

    Yes I looked at the history and see Cannanites, Hyskos, Amalekite Hiparu, and I hear Esther. I read and try to understand why Muslim Prophet did not slaughter all the Jews he could after the victory against bani ( quite a few were there in Arab at that time .) I wonder why Jews lived as Dhimmi and why they did not leave for a better place in Africa or China or Germany . At least the Jews have been always leaving for greener pastures . They are leaving now Eastern Europe and Russia and Argentina for Germany,UK,and US

  102. @Rurik

    Hey again Hasbara, how clever you imagine yourself, detracting from the whole of my initial comment, reproduced in full here:

    “Please, someone respond”

    Ok, I’ll bite. Clearly you’re not familiar with the article’s author and the people commenting or willfully choose not to notice there are people commenting other than anti-Semites, including Hasbara posing as anti-Semites who’re present to smear the article’s author with guilt by association for calling out Netanyahu on his BS. As well there are Jews who disapprove of Israeli policy and hate Netanyahu (e.g. Sam Shama), Goyim who disapprove of Israeli policy who’re NOT anti-Semites and are NOT opposed to the state of Israel in per se (e.g. JR who expects behaviors from Israel conformed to the rules of international law.)

    http://ronaldthomaswest.com/2015/11/11/kafka-the-human-zoo/

    ^ My recent two cents on a great Jewish thinker radical Zionism wishes to claim; contrasted to a more primitive mindset (Jew & Goy alike), it’s not a simplistic black & white subject no matter what certain cretins would prefer & pretend -

    ***

    Meanwhile, glad to see you whine about becoming part of that ‘great White minority’ having to move over and make some room -

    • Replies: @Rurik
  103. “This more than offsets the hate-filled anti-Israel propaganda from fringe Holocaust deniers like Giraldi.”

    There are definitely comments here that are overtly antisemitic, so exaggerated and over the top, that I wonder whether they are from genuinely unhinged people who hate “the Jews” pathologically, or are from Hasbara opportunists who seek to create an impression of guilt by association for anyone who offers needed critique of the Likudnik faction’s policies.

    As for my comment about history being more fair were Germans subjected to the treatment that Palestinians receive instead by proxy, even the Likud Israeli Prime Minister’s recent comments reveal as much. He said that the Germans didn’t want to gas Jews; that was the device of Palestinians. Since even the German leadership corrected him with the information that it was indeed Germans who thought it up, Mr. Netanyahu is clearly making Palestinians hapless stand-ins for the Germans.

    Without the German program of genocide against Jews, accompanied by the wholly inadequate response to it by the rest of the gentile world, there would currently be no Israel as currently constituted. Its creation is the byproduct of the consequences of two world wars and the Holocaust.

    The Palestinians displaced through a lesser form of ethnic cleansing to give Jewish settlers living space are those who are suffering the consequences for the war crimes that Germany as a nation committed from the 1930s, once ruled by the Nazis with popular support.

    One notion of justice is that the evil that one plans for others, comes back on one instead. In this case, Germany has escaped most consequences, notably because of its usefulness for the proxy wars with the Soviet Union. The head of West German intelligence was a notorious Nazi protected by the west and catapulted into that useful position.

    The Palestinians, without financial clout or political importance, were seen as disposable, their displacement the useful path of least resistance. Of course, no people really are disposable and eventually the chickens come home to roost, or described in realistic Chalmers Johnson terms, blowback.

    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @SolontoCroesus
  104. bunga says:

    Recognize Israeli annexation of Golan, Netanyahu hints to Obama

    As Syrian war grinds on into fifth year, Israel believes it is time ‘to think differently’ about ownership of plateau

    By Times of Israel staff November 10, 2015, 6:35 pm 20

    US ,UK, France ,Germany, Guam ,Hondurus and Australia might recognize .So can Portugal or half of Africa
    But it does not mean the struggle to take in back even after 100 years will be illegal or will be an expression of Jihad .
    Israeli lovers would like to label it that way though to get more money from US or capture more land from some other country .

  105. bunga says:
    @Greasy William

    You will be listening for a long time unfortunately .
    Cowards ,incompetent job seekers, people coveting for positions do all the time what Neera Tanden or whole CAP just did. Education is way down the list of priority ,when the job you wanted to have ,could be had only after gutting reason ,expressing internalized fear with respect ,and rigging the debates through rigged questions ,screening attendees, shutting audience and claiming how successful the show was in merit and how forceful was the conviction . When there is no job to have ,you still want to hang around for some emotional crumbs after long years of browbeating by the rascals masquerading as national leader . That way you tell the world : you are still relevant .You still have services to offer to the rascals.

    http://mondoweiss.net/2015/11/netanyahu-conversation-twilight

  106. Ivan says:
    @Clyde

    The Hindu buggers got it from Will Durant who was of the pre-internet age. Muslim conquerors were responsible for genocides as can be read from Crowds and Power by Elias.Canetti. But they could never have anywhere near 80 millions. The population at the turn of the 20th century was about 1 billion. Extrapolate it back to see if this figure is plausible. Not everything done in the name of Islam is due to the Arabs and Persians. The Mongols who devastated Baghdad were pretty much in action in India too.

    • Replies: @KA
    , @Clyde
  107. bunga says:
    @Clyde

    Saddam was just a ‘neighborhood bully,’ Netanyahu says– 13 years after saying Saddam threatened ‘security of our entire world’ – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/11/neighborhood-netanyahu-threatened#sthash.NnhQ8s83.dpuf

    The deception by Hipru ( Hebrew ) against Cannanite and later against Persian still ring so recent , poignant ,and fresh . Nothing has changed even the selecting “other” to carry out the task..

    • Replies: @Clyde
  108. Moi says:

    Phil,

    You know Obama will ignore your advice, instead he will again do a Lewinsky on B. Nutty.

  109. Rurik says:
    @Ronald Thomas West

    Hey Custer,

    Kafka was indeed a genius, and an extraordinary man

    I didn’t comment your initial comment because I have no issue with it

    I did however comment on the bizarre theory that suggested that all things of ‘freedom and beauty’ are somehow negated by white people’s ‘narcissistic anthropomorphic expectation’. It just sounded a little out there, Custer.

    And I guess I was a little bored. Wanted to stir the pot a little. ; )

  110. @Clyde

    There’s nothing bad about Russian President Vladimir Putin, Clyde; he brought Russia out of dire poverty under the drunkard Boris Yeltsin by clearing out the mostly Jewish oligarchs that had been bleeding the country dry by pillaging the Treasury and restoring Russia to its Orthodox Christian roots.
    In addition, Putin has overhauled Russia’s military to the point where no adversary .. even the USSA .. is able to defeat. To top it off, he didn’t need a huge budget with which to accomplish this feat. Russia’s weapons systems .. both defensive and offensive .. are superior, bar none; its fighter and bomber jets are superior .. as are its tanks and submarines.
    Also, in any meetings/dealings with Bibi, Putin didn’t hesitate to put Israel’s dictator in his place; whereas, in his most recent meeting with Bibi, Obama just about gave away the USSA store to him. And, guess what .. Teleprompter Barry never even once asked for our permission. That’s how much he hates America.

    • Replies: @Clyde
  111. @Ronald Thomas West

    Thanks for the info, Ronald. Not sure I understand much of it such as calling out Netanyahu on his BS.(?) Also, radical Zionism. What does this mean?… Over here in the States we hear screaming and shouting at Israel for being mean & cruel to the people who are trying to obliterate them and Jerusalem off the face of the Earth. Doesn’t seem to make sense.

    I love the photo in your article Kafka & The Human Zoo. The photo reminds me of Detroit circa 2015. I was born in Detroit on the inside of the fence. 50 years later all us white people are on the outside of the sharp stick fence. As I see it, African Americans moved in, whites moved out and behold a similar human zoo was created.

    Thanks again,

    *

    • Replies: @RobinG
  112. Rurik says:
    @Fran Macadam

    Hello Fran,

    As for my comment about history being more fair were Germans subjected to the treatment that Palestinians receive instead by proxy, even the Likud Israeli Prime Minister’s recent comments reveal as much

    OK, so you weren’t being facetious. You do feel it would be fair for the German people today to suffer what the Palestinians suffer. You do feel that people are guilty of the crimes of their ancestors. And that they should be made to pay. Even if they had no part in it.

    Since even the German leadership corrected him with the information that it was indeed Germans who thought it up,

    In case you haven’t noticed the German government today is one of the most completely and absolutely occupied by the Zionists and Jewish power structure. A German politician doesn’t fart unless he’s sure it’s OK with the Jews, even more so than England or the US or Israel, for that matter. I think the only government more slavishly under the boot of the Zionists, is.. well, there isn’t one. So when the German government (or media) tells the world that the German people are guilty for all time for the Holocaust, (much of which is lies) we are not hearing precisely from people who are representing the interests of the German people without prejudice.

    Without the German program of genocide against Jews, accompanied by the wholly inadequate response to it by the rest of the gentile world,

    let me help you out here, what you mean to say is the Nazi program of genocide. OK? There is a difference, even if you have been inundated with decades of anti-German propaganda. If you want to blame the German people for all perpetuity because of the crimes of a government they had 70+ years ago, then you have to blame all people everywhere for the crimes of some obscure people who lived long ago and did terrible things to others during war. That pretty much encompasses us all.

    The Palestinians displaced through a lesser form of ethnic cleansing to give Jewish settlers living space are those who are suffering the consequences for the war crimes that Germany as a nation committed from the 1930s, once ruled by the Nazis with popular support.

    now the displacement (and slaughter) of the Palestinians from their own ancient lands is a “lesser” form of ethnic cleansing. And if you didn’t know, it was the Jews who wanted and coveted that land. The Germans didn’t force them to go there. It was Jewish terrorists who slaughtered their way across Palestine and drove those people out of their homes and villages. But now somehow all of that genocidal terror and butchery is now the direct fault of a German child born today.

    One notion of justice is that the evil that one plans for others, comes back on one instead.

    But Fran, all the Nazis are dead. Punishing a race (out of pure hate) for the crimes of what a few of them did is exactly what the Nazi did. Do you understand that? It’s what the Zionists do to Gaza when they bomb them indiscriminately for a so called rocket attack. To say the Germans should be genocided and displaced and tormented by Jewish sadists is the same evil mentality that the Nazis and Zionists were and are engaged in, respectively.

    No one deserved to be punished for the crimes of others. A child born in America today does not deserve to suffer for the myriad and unprecedented crimes that the US government is committing today. Russians today should not be punished for the crimes of Stalin. Vietnamese children should not be punished for the crimes of Pol Pot, Chinese should not be punished for the crimes of Mao. But some of us can’t get past our hate. We want to heap blame and guilt upon others, not for anything that they’ve done, but for what they look like. It’s sad and pathetic.

    • Replies: @Fran Macadam
    , @schmenz
  113. @Rurik

    Notice I said “fairer” not “fair.” But we all know, life’s not fair.
    And in no way do I subscribe to a particular demonization of Jews, nor of Palestinians, nor Germans.
    On the other hand, those who benefit from the crimes of their forebears, can’t reap the benefits without being called to account. After all, it was precisely the claim to benefit posterity that was used by German leadership to justify the hard means they had chosen. Those who carried out the policies suffered bouts of conscience only subsumed by drunkenness and active pep talks by authorities about how their sacrifices were for the better future of mankind.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  114. Old Jew says:

    Mr. Giraldi,

    You wrote:

    “…. Netanyahu has proposed expelling thousands of Palestinians from East Jerusalem, where they and their ancestors have lived for centuries”.

    Could you be more precise?

    Who are these families?

    There are 300 thousand East-Jerusalemites. How were these particular thousand selected?

    Where will they go (Syria? Jordan? Gaza?). Has the UN prepared the tents?

    You are a journalist. Don’t let yourself be duped.

    What I understand is that there were some outlying Palestinian villages that the Jerusalem municipality declared to be part of Greater Jerusalem.

    It gave them an advantage over other West-Bank (Occupied Palestine) villages.

    They could receive Israeli citizenship (which these patriotic Palestinians refused) or an Israeli ID (which no Palestinian refused, because it entitled them to welfare checks, medicaid, and right to travel/work all over Israel with Israeli license plates).

    Most of the heroic Youth that participated in the knife attacks, came from two or three of such villages.

    Netanyahu did not propose that people be removed from their houses/land.

    He suggested that these villages be removed from within the borders of Municipal Jerusalem
    and return to the status of occupied Palestine.

    About half of the families in these villages live under the Israeli poverty levels and thus receive payments (the equivalent of Welfare Checks and Medicaid in the USA).

    It happens because they have so many children [... Allah (or the State of Israel) will provide...]

    The Israeli viewpoint: What is the point to feed / cure families whose children are out to slaughter you?

    Will it happen?

    Most likely not.

    Israel has so many layers of bureaucracy, courts, appeals, etc., .

    Netanyahu may propose, but it is bound to come to nothing.

    So Mr. Giraldi, please use the verb “expel” only when family are actually removed, not when municipal boundaries may be modified.

    Israel has plenty real flaws. No point to pile up imaginary crimes.

    SF

  115. RobinG says:
    @Invisible man

    “…. the people who are trying to obliterate them and Jerusalem off the face of the Earth. ”

    I.M. – TRY TO STAY AWAY FROM THE KOOL-AID……

    • Replies: @geokat62
  116. geokat62 says:
    @RobinG

    Who knew stone throwing was that effective?

  117. […] 11, 2015 “Information Clearing House” – “Unz Review” – Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is currently making one of his periodic […]

  118. […] “Unz Review” – Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is currently making one of his periodic devastating plundering raids on Washington and New York. During his visit he discreetly picked up a bunch of large checks from the Wall Street crowd, benefited from the plaudits dutifully delivered by the media and chattering class and has even met with President Barack Obama, whom he quite openly despises. Netanyahu and Obama carefully concealed their mutual dislike when in front of the cameras but the president also made all the right noises about Israel’s security “needs.” Apparently all the violence occurring in Israel-Palestine is the fault of the Palestinians and Israel always has the right to do whatever it wants to defend itself. Obama will follow up on the meeting by throwing billions of dollars of additional Danegeld at Netanyahu as a token of America’s undying love and fealty to Israel’s interests. […]

  119. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @Art

    I think that there is a voting constituency that does not like the control Jews hold over America.

    There is a voting constituency that does not like the control Zionists hold over America.

    Kasich is NOT Jewish, he is Protestant. The majority of our Congressmen are NOT Jewish, but they ARE Zionists. Be it for personal gain or religious reasons, they are Zionists because they seek to further the Political Agenda of Zionism. Not all Jewish people are Zionists and not all Zionists are Jewish. By your blaming of a religion, Judaism, instead of blaming the political ideology, Zionism, you are not only misdirecting your blame but you are also giving a free pass to all the non-Jewish Zionists. And there are a LOT of them.

    Zionism is support for the State of Israel. Zionists will TRY to make you believe that all Jewish people are Zionists but this is false. Zionism is NOT Judaism. Our problem is not Judaism. The problem is our support for the State of Israel, aka Zionism.

    • Replies: @RobinG
  120. KA [AKA "Carthage"] says:
    @Ivan

    India is interesting in many ways .
    Today’s NYT on page B1-India Facing Climate Change,
    ” 30% of the world’s poorest call it home living less than 1.90 dollar a day. 304 million don’t have access to electricity ;92 million have no access to safe drinking water ”
    Against this statistics,how do the countries in turmoil in Middle East compare? How did the countries in Latin America compare?
    Both Christianity and Islam freed the poor,the indigent,the downtrodden to think beyond what was told and what was explained to them by the God ‘s own class- the self defined and self -appointed elite and High Priest . They did not accept the arrangement by the rulrs , they did not stay beholden to the imposed dispensation . They revolted .

    In India,these poor think that it is their fate .They are told to love and enjoy it ( sometime back Narendra Modi told that these poor actually enjoyed serving the rich,doing the menial job )

    This is why India doesn’t engage in revolt . They had to get converted to Islam,Christinity,Buddhism or Communist to think that they are human being .This is one of the reason of targeted anger against Christianity in Northern India .

    • Replies: @Ivan
  121. “The simple solution to the attacks would be for Israel to give up its endless and endlessly brutal occupation of the West Bank as well as its siege of Gaza. The knifings would end.”

    My guess is there probably has been maybe three or four actual unprovoked (in the immediate sense) knife attacks by the natives on the Hebrew-speaking Boers. The rest are simple murders by Jews passed off as self-defense. Notice all the “light injuries?” WTF is a “light injury” anyway? A sprained ankle from running like a pussy when someone yells “terrorsts?”

  122. L.K says:

    Everybody, but perhaps Americans above all, should take the time to watch the following:

    Jeffrey Blankfort(who, btw, is Jewish) – Are there Israel lobby gatekeepers and damage control squads on the Left?

    Alison Weir: Findings from the new book “Against Our Better Judgement”

    Grant Smith: A brief history of Israeli foreign agent, smuggling & spy cases.

    Ernie Gallo: The U.S.S Liberty: what really happened? What did not?

  123. KA [AKA "carthage"] says:
    @Clyde

    “Empires cost money, and the price of ours – which in based on the principle of everything goes out and nothing comes in – is exorbitantly high. Which is probably what led Center for American Progress head honcho Neera Tanden, who is close to Hillary Clinton, to propose charging countries that we invade and conquer for the costs of subjugating and occupying them. Tanden proposed – seriously – that we seize Libya’s oil as the price for “liberating” them, i.e. turning their country into a terrorist version of Disney World.

    “Empires cost money, and the price of ours – which in based on the principle of everything goes out and nothing comes in – is exorbitantly high. Which is probably what led Center for American Progress head honcho Neera Tanden, who is close to Hillary Clinton, to propose charging countries that we invade and conquer for the costs of subjugating and occupying them. Tanden proposed – seriously – that we seize Libya’s oil as the price for “liberating” them, i.e. turning their country into a terrorist version of Disney World.

    http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2015/11/10/the-enemy-within/


    Did it originate from Neera Tnfen or dd she borrow it from Wolfowitz ? Or may be she borrowed it from Trump
    This is better,perfected version of imperialism.
    I wonder why she didnot demand for the soldiers from those countries also to fight ,occupy and thus spare the Americn lives

  124. @Fran Macadam

    some time ago Giraldi explained that Fran Macadam was an old friend.

    perhaps Giraldi the historian can correct his old friend’s historical failures revealed in this comment:

    [A] Without the German program of genocide against Jews, [B] accompanied by the wholly inadequate response to it by the rest of the gentile world, there would [C} currently be no Israel as currently constituted.

    I. The chronological failures:
    1. Israel "as currently constituted" was conceived and gestated beginning in the first decade of the 20th century. The German Warburgs, the international banking family Rothschild, and other German-born and German-educated experts established the core institutions of "Israel as currently constituted," including acquiring some of the most fertile land in the region, the Jezreal valley, and building Tel Aviv, by 1910.
    No holocaust in sight in 1910, other than in Rabbi Stephen Wise's preaching.

    2. By 1917 Chaim Weizmann had secured the Balfour Declaration, the pledge of the British government to "look with favour on the establishment of a homeland for Jews in Palestine," -- a pledge addressed to Baron Rothschild by which the world's then-mightiest empire extended security guarantees to the zionist colonization project.
    1917 and still no holocaust in sight.

    3. In 1937 David Ben Gurion wrote to his son to the effect that the small footprint that Jews had in Palestine "as an outcome of the Great War" did not satisfy the intentions of the zionist colonizers but would do until the plans for expansion could be fully implemented.

    Also by 1937, zionist Jews had built luxury residences for Chaim Weizmann and the Schocken family in Rehovath; had built Hebrew University and a medical center also in Rehovath. Erich Mendelsohn, "the Jewish architect" who designed and built those institutions created the international style of housing and other buildings that dominated Palestine-turning-into-Israel; by 1937 zionist settlers had established governing bodies, banks, unions, kibbutzes, farms, schools and roads in the zionist project in Palestine. "Israel" had many of the institutions of a state; it was lacking only a declaration of statehood, declared boundaries, and a constitution.
    Still no holocaust.

    In a meeting on June 11, 1944 of the Jewish Agency in Tel Aviv, headed by David Ben Gurion, the Agency asserted that "Auschwitz is a labor camp," and they elected to refrain from asking the Allies to "bomb Auschwitz" lest "a single Jewish person be harmed." (source; a paper by Rafael Medoff of Wyman Institute).

    Israel self-declared itself in 1948. Israel has not yet declared boundaries nor a constitution.
    That declaration was preceded by an alleged holocaust of Jews and coincided with the mass transfer of millions of ethnic Germans and Russians, many of them to their deaths, as well as the dispossession of an estimated 700,000 residents of Palestine and the killing of thousands more of Palestinians by well-armed and organized Jewish militias and terror organizations.

    Thus, Fran Macadam's chronology is backward: C. came before A, (to the extent A. has truth-value), and B. is a vicious slur on the American people.

    II. Failures in cause-effect:

    1. If the above timeline is irrefutably true, and it is, then it cannot be said that a "German program of genocide" caused the constitution of the zionist project in Palestine: an effect cannot occur before its causality. Thus, zionism caused Nazism.

    2. Fran Macadam seems to agree with Robert Cohen that persons such as this commenter who question the illogic and implausibility of the holocaust narrative are on the "fringe;" Cohen wrote:

    Holocaust denial will remain a fringe issue. The documentation is secure in its veracity and overwhelming in its volume. If anything, today’s school children are in danger of thinking that Churchill, Roosevelt and Stalin went to war against Hitler because of what was happening to the Jews. - http://mondoweiss.net/2015/01/auschwitz-revisited#sthash.rWtU7hOj.dpuf

    As well, Fran Macadam is squarely in the camp of those "school children [who] are in danger thinking” what Cohen implies is a totally wrong apprehension of reality — that “Churchill, Roosevelt and Stalin went to war against Hitler because of what was happening to the Jews.”

    The question, Why did “Churchill, Roosevelt and Stalin go to war against Hitler” is left unanswered, despite “documentation [that] is secure in its veracity and overwhelming in its volume” — but which, as Prof. Kathy Peiss reports, also has been pilfered, filtered, censored and destroyed by Jewish persons such as her uncle and other Allied agents.

    III. When so much is at stake, it’s extremely important to get the facts and logic right.
    Fran Macadam’s statement fails on all counts.
    If ordinary critical analysis is now the equivalent of ‘holocaust denial,” then call me Fringe and unhinged. The alternative is to live in the same bizarro world as Bibi Netanyahu.

  125. Rurik says:
    @Fran Macadam

    On the other hand, those who benefit from the crimes of their forebears, can’t reap the benefits without being called to account.

    The German people have hardly reaped benefits from the antics of the Nazis. In a war that Hitler and the German people did not want, they had their country bombed into smoking ruins, their people burned alive by the hundreds of thousands in places like Dresden and Hamburg, millions upon millions of them starved to death after the war was over. Hundreds of thousands of German men were enslaved after the war and held in bondage for years. Millions of German women were brutally raped and Germany was ground down into the dust of abject misery and despair for years after the war. Occupied by hate-consumed brutes and thugs from both the east and the west, German teenage boys were murdered off en masse in POW camps due to exposure and starvation. Their country was looted and their women disgraced. But perhaps most of all, and worst of all, the German people have been relentlessly excoriated as evil people for a Holocaust that is more lies than truth.

    And after all of this and during an occupation that continues today.. because the German people are congenitally hard working and intelligent and have rebuilt their country from its ashes, they accused of having benefited from the war. Amazing isn’t it?

    it was precisely the claim to benefit posterity that was used by German leadership to justify the hard means they had chosen.

    that hard means would have never have happened were it not for the treachery and hatred that the German people and nation had suffered from the allies after the first world war. It was France and Belgium and England and Russia and especially Poland who forced WWII by continuing to treat the German people under their occupation with savagery and racial hatred. (much like the Palestinians suffer today) I’m no apologist for the Nazis, but they didn’t want that war. It was forced upon them by yes, Jewish bankers who had funded Trotsky and Lenin and Stalin and the whole communist insanity and owned FDR and Churchill outright, just like they do the British and US politicians today. But we never hear that side of the story do we, only the relentless blood libels against the German people.

    The Nazis did persecute innocent people, but they were taught the lessons of treachery and injustice by the consummate masters of treachery and injustice; the hose of Rothschild and the British aristocracy, and the other demonic scum from the allied powers. And when it comes to murderous evil and contempt for innocent life, there are none that compare to the nemeses of the Nazis, good ol Uncle Joe Stalin. But we never hear about all of that, do we Fran. It’s all evil Germans all day long. And always nothing but innocent Jews and victims of the Nazis who were just playing violins and minding their own business.

    So, I just like to point out the stuff we never hear about, because it’s all happening again Fran. Germany is today being invaded and forced into civil war just like it was in the thirties, and just like the thirties, all the German people (and the rest of the sane Europeans) who object to being inundated with Muslims are accused of being Nazis and racists. And just like in the thirties, the ones foisting all of this madness and hate and strife are yep, you guessed it, the same ones who funded Trotsky and Lenin. The British and US bankers. The EU and the boyz at the ECB. And the only reason they’re able to get away with all of this evil is because of the knee-jerk mind set of the sheeple in the west and Europe who’re afraid of saying anything lest someone call them a Nazi or a racist. And this will not end well Fran. Not at all. So I would posit that we should all at least have some historical perspective to all of this, because it’s deja vu all over again.

    I’m ranting again..

    (it’s what I do ; )

    I’ll leave you with this German politician whom I’m sure you would pat on the head as one of the very few ‘good Germans’. When he say Nazis as he’s referring to Germans, he reminds me of you ; )

    • Agree: SolontoCroesus
  126. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Fran Macadam

    Aha, the jew shows her true colors. Listen, Germany’s already repaid whatever debt they incurred to world jewry 6 million times over. They don’t owe you parasites a thing.

  127. Ivan says:
    @KA

    India with 1.2 billions is a world by itself. There are countless races and religions holding the balance in a matrix of forces and co-operation. This is the way most Indians, like myself like it. It ensures for one thing that we don’t get the kind of “development” that China had with its mass starvations. We have our freedoms, with no thanks to the RSS-BJP combine. The majority of Indians have a live and let live attitude, but the Hindu fascists want to target the minority Muslims and Christians in order to pursue their agenda of a neverland of Hindu purity based on partly on cow-worship. The majority of Indians, Hindu or otherwise don’t buy it as can be seen from the elections in Bihar.

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    , @KA
    , @KA
    , @KA
  128. RobinG says:
    @Junior

    “The majority of our Congressmen are NOT Jewish, but they ARE Zionists.”

    Well, the majority of our Congressmen are kowtowing to politically organized Jews, i.e. AIPAC, CFIJA, CFI, LFI, CRIF etc’. Even J-Street is primarily dedicated to a jewish supremacist Israel.

    “The wealthy Jews control the world, in their hands lies the fate of governments and nations. They set governments one against the other. When the wealthy Jews play, the nations and the rulers dance. One way or the other, they get rich.” (Theodor Herzl, Deutsche Zeitung)

    • Replies: @Junior
  129. Clyde says:
    @bunga

    There are 1.5 billion Muslims and they are invading Europe right now. There are 15 million Jews with about 6 million in Israel. What is the real threat to the world? Crazy nuked up Muslims in Iran and other nations or 6 million Zionist Jews in Israel?
    40 million Muslims have invaded Europe and most are are bleeding dry the European welfare systems. Due to centuries old Islamic colonialism and imperialism they just will not leave Israel alone. Then you have the world’s leftist social justice warriors hating Israel too and aligning themselves with the great Muslim Jihad. Commies and Muslims in bed together, making common cause.
    Europe = a slow Jihad situation
    Israel = a fast Jihad situation

    • Replies: @geokat62
    , @annamaria
    , @Avery
  130. Clyde says:
    @Eileen Kuch

    I have a thousand times more respect for Vlad Putin than for Obama. Putin is a nationalist who loves his people.
    Obama by the way is featured this month in Out Magazine. A gay publication. Obama’s photo is on the cover and he has an interview inside.
    Putin is laughing at this anti-Israel idiot.

    http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/11/11/455630392/obama-featured-on-the-cover-of-lgbt-magazine-out

    • Replies: @geokat62
    , @KA
  131. Sam Shama says:
    @Ivan

    Hello Ivan,
    I was in India recently on a business trip (Mumbai and Delhi). I found the country to be a fascinating mix of ultra-rich and poor, modernists and antiquarians, hyper-nationalists and globalists. The people were universally warm. (I also visited the synagogues in Mumbai and they were absolute jewels).

    Narendra Modi, appears to be a man of vision.

    I was impressed and convinced that the Indian economy presents an unique situation: a combination of IT-human-capital based growth and a huge and under-invested opportunity in infrastructure and medium to heavy industry.

    I hear that Bibi Netanyahu is about to visit New Delhi soon. Modi ought to be careful.

    I’d be interested in your views.

  132. geokat62 says:
    @Clyde

    Due to centuries old Islamic colonialism and imperialism they just will not leave Israel alone.

    Mr. Clyde, as you well know, you have things backwards. It’s the Zionists who wont leave the Muslims alone. Just ask the Palestinians who have been suffering under a brutal occupation for the last 50 years… due to Zionist colonialism and imperialism.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  133. geokat62 says:
    @Clyde

    Putin is laughing at this anti-Israel idiot.

    If you despise Obama because he is “anti-Israel,” one can only imagine what you thought of Ron Paul as president.

    • Replies: @Clyde
  134. annamaria says:
    @Clyde

    “…40 million Muslims have invaded Europe…”
    have you noticed that these Muslim invaders were first invaded by the military superior force of some powerful state? Check the names “Falluja” and “depleted uranium.” Check the state of Libyan economy before the US-led “liberation” of thousands of Libyans of their homes and lives. And then check PNAC and Yinon Plan. “[The Yinon plan] is an Israeli strategic plan to ensure Israeli regional superiority. It insists and stipulates that Israel must reconfigure its geo-political environment through the balkanization of the surrounding Arab states into smaller and weaker states.” http://www.globalresearch.ca/greater-israel-the-zionist-plan-for-the-middle-east/5324815

    Q: Why had Jewish people been leaving Europe en masse in the end for 1930-s, flooding both South and North Americas, abandoning their homes and the ways of living? A: Because there was a powerful state with supremacist plans that targeted non-arians, while looking for more land and mineral resource.
    Q: Why have people from Libya, Syria, and Iraq been leaving their ancestral homes? – Because their lives became gravely endangered by the plans of two “exceptional” states.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  135. Marais says:
    @Orville H. Larson

    Liz (half of his latest ventriloquist act) also merits irrigation.

  136. annamaria says:
    @geokat62

    How true is this?
    “CONSPIRACY ISIS Leader ‘Al-Baghdadi’ Is A ‘Jewish Mossad Agent’ – French Reports:”

    • Replies: @geokat62
  137. Marais says:
    @Rurik

    Woolsey certainly is a piece of work – a soul as dark as Michael Ledeen, but smarter, more dangerous, and a lot greedier.

    “Only fear will reestablish [Arab] respect for us…We need a little bit of Machiavelli.”
    -James Woolsey Glasgow Sunday Herald 13 April 2003

    ‘Iraqi Freedom’ in Woolsey’s view was all about instilling fear in Arabs, ‘shock and awe’ sanctified by Bernard Lewis and others:

    “America needed to hit someone in the Arab-Muslim world. Smashing Saudi Arabia or Syria would have been fine. But we hit Saddam for one simple reason: because we could, and because he deserved it.”
    -Thomas Friedman New York Times 4 June 2003

    And who else shares their view?

    “The rules of engagement have become so rigid that governments often straightjacket themselves in the face of unambiguous aggression…The application of military force, or the prospect of such application, inhibits terrorist violence.”
    -Benjamin Netanyahu ‘Terrorism: How the West Can Win’ 1987

    It’s a pity they didn’t watch Pontecorvo’s ‘Battle of Algiers’ (or learned nothing from it).

    Woolsey’s interest in Iraq seems pretty basic: financial self-enrichment:

    “The Iraq war is part of World War IV. This is going to be a long war, very long indeed. I hope not as long as the Cold War, 40 plus years, but certainly longer than either World War I or World War II. I rather imagine it’s going to be measured, I’m afraid, in decades…”
    -James Woolsey April 2003

    Woolsey hoped for “a long war…measured in decades.” The ventures he advised, the boards on which he sat would need time to maximize revenue. Paladin’s Homeland Security Fund, for example, would need a stable, long term conflict to attract investors and manifest profits.

    I wonder if he’s involved in TPP.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  138. KA [AKA "Carthage"] says:
    @Ivan

    I don’t think the issue of tolerance is the problem for the millions holed up in the abyss of the poverty . Exclude Muslim and Christian and just focus on the poor among the broad spectrum of Hindu. Why is this silence why is this lack of movement,why is this blind acceptance of the condition?
    Its not that Indian poor have revolted. They have against British along with the rest and they have as recent as 2002 and 2013 against local Muslim in Gujrat and North Indian state near Delhi. But often these movements have been helmed by the upper caste .
    Most of the right against Muslim or Christian are carried out by poor equally marginilaizrd low caste Hindus . The agitation against mosque and churches and Muslim shrines from1987 have been carried out by the poor lower caste Hindus . All these agitations and violences happened at the instigation of upper caste ( through media, Videos,Policy decisions,focussed destruction of cottage business owned by Muslim , using security forces and public festivals ,theater ,nd TV serials ) One of the classis distraction was the riot that broke out in1990 after a high caste student immolated himself in fire to protest against newly created extra reservation for lower caste ( for votes) . To divert the attention BJP started nationwide movement against Muslim and the very same lower caste made it possible .
    But these lower caste as a group have never staked a claim that challenges the subliminal pervasive,diffuse psychological religious social control of Indian rich caste . They can only go after other lower caste after Muslim after Christian. This is in sharp contrast from the revolt people see in Africa. N Africa, Middle East . This has put them at a disadvantage because this weakness is internalized and is part of their defined existence .

    • Replies: @Art
  139. Avery says:
    @Clyde

    {…Crazy nuked up Muslims in Iran and other nations…}

    I agree with some of the things you write.
    But you guys need to stop this ridiculous and false demonizing of Iran and Iranian people.
    Iran is neither “nuked up” nor crazy.
    Iran/Persia is an ancient, peaceful civilization.
    It hasn’t attacked anyone in centuries.
    It was attacked by Iraq – egged on by US, UK, Saudi Arabia, Israel: Iranians lost several hundred thousand men, mostly young men, to stop the Iraqi invasion.

    Iranian leaders are very rational.
    On the other hand, Israel’s current leaders are nuts.
    And Israel is the country that openly threatens to take down Europe if it itself goes down, even though Europe would have had absolutely nothing to do with the hypothetical future demise of Israel.

    You don’t think that’s Crazy with a capital C ?

    • Agree: Orville H. Larson
  140. KA says:
    @Clyde

    Putin is always described by media as poker faced. When was he seen laughing?
    By the way Israel was again given a lot of free money,free goodies and some raw intelligence by Obama. ( I am sure some of these money return to US to provide the Congressional junket to Israel and some go as donation to politicians who then make rules more friendly to Israel and some are offered the bestows igion from where they could shape foreign relation,justice department,treasury department and defense. Not that long ago,may be 3 yrs ago, US agreed to sell 40 billion worth of military supplies to Saudi and Gulf . To balance and to preserve the” Israeli upper hand”. Obama agreed to provide 30 billion dollar worth of military supplies . But it was free. Israel would get it delivered even free ) And Obamais Antisemitic? Because? Because he did not destroy Iran. That’s why.

    A nice article on relationship ( Israel US) –http://nationalinterest.org/blog/paul-pillar/acknowledging-reality-the-us-israeli-relationship-14289

    • Replies: @Avery
    , @Clyde
  141. KA [AKA "Carthage"] says:
    @annamaria

    Welcome

  142. @annamaria

    Q: Why had Jewish people been leaving Europe en masse in the end for 1930-s, flooding both South and North Americas, abandoning their homes and the ways of living?

    A: Because there was a powerful state with supremacist plans that targeted non-arians, while looking for more land and mineral resource.

    I disagree.

    The posted Answer is the propagandized version that we’ve all been programmed to recite for all our lives.

    First, consider the status of Jews in Germany vis a vis Germans in Germany: which was the “invading” force and which was the indigenous body? Germany was German; Jews did and could still live in Germany as long as they became German in all ways. That was not happening in the 1930s: Jews from Russia and Poland flooded into Germany much as Germany is being overrun today. The difference is Hitler, alleged to have undescended testicles, nevertheless had balls and Merkel does not. NSDAP adopted legal remedies to remove those Jews who were not assimilatable from Germany.

    Assimilation was not good enough for zionist Jews: key to the zionist Jewish mindset is the notion that Jews must be in charge.

    The reality is Jews left Germany, under the directive of Louis Brandeis, after Brandeis & other zionist and Jewish leaders recognized that the vision they conceived in the aftermath of WWI and the German Revolution in 1918, of Jews successfully taking control of Germany, failed: Jews were a dominant force in Weimar and Weimar was a failure, politically, intellectually, financially and culturally.

    Two other greener fields presented themselves: the USA offered untapped opportunities for political and economic control and exploitation, and as home to an increasingly immigrant population, sufficiently pre-dumped-down so as to make the work of an exploiting elite a piece of cake. Jews flocked to the USA and took over plum positions in government, banking and universities. This was accomplished thru favored treatment granted on the plea of “victimization” (!) and “persecution” (!!). The pleas — false tho they were — worked marvelously well: Jews were admitted to USA in numbers far exceeding real victims in other European and other states: if persecution were the standard, why not admit thousands of Chinese, or Ukrainians who were being starved to death by Bolsheviks?

    Furthermore, Jewish persons who wriggled themselves into positions of influence, such as Henry Morgenthau, Jr as Secretary of Treasury, used US taxpayer money to finance Jewish migration to US, and also to finance Stalin’s continued slaughter of Russian people and the planned destruction of Germany.

    Jews left Germany for greener pastures after they had despoiled Germany — which NSDAP repaired, btw, necessitating an even more vicious and total program of devastation, sowing Carthage in salt.

    In their myth-history, on their way out Jews destroy the states where they had earlier dwelt prosperously, Egypt is the model. It is not an accident that Leon Uris’s Exodus is the ‘theme song’ of the Jewish emigration from Germany, whose destruction they arranged for, and migration to USA and Palestine — whose destruction they are implementing.

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  143. annamaria says:

    Interesting:
    “Time Is Running Out For Pax Americana’s Apologists”

    http://thesaker.is/time-is-running-out-for-pax-americanas-apologists/

    • Replies: @annamaria
  144. Rurik says:
    @Marais

    I wonder if he’s involved in TPP.

    it would certainly be in his character

    There are very many whores of Zion on the world’s stage as we all know. The repulsive Hagees and assorted religious prostitutes of Moloch. The intellectual whores to sniveling ambition like Newt Gingrich or George Will, the imbeciles like George W, the legions of treasonous opportunists of every stripe in our fecal government in DC.

    There are war pigs like the loathsome Lindsey Graham or the ever feculent McCain

    But for me, for some reason the worst of the worst of the worst is the man who I’ve come to consider the ultimate modern day kapo. Like those Jews in the camps who would collaborate with the Nazis and viciously beat or inform on their fellow Jews for that pat on the head. And especially for that extra privilege and better food! Perhaps even a swig or even a bottle! of schnapps for having put particularly nasty welts on some insolent Jew as an example to the others.

    That’s how I see Woolsey. He comes across as a seriously vicious prick. I’m reminded of the hired Apache scouts who were invaluable to the US Army in finding the hiding places of the renegade Apaches.

    If I thought he had a drop of Jewish blood, then I wouldn’t feel he was nearly so bad. Just another John Bolton type. But these Shabbos goys who serve the very worst of the Zionists with a rabid zeal, inspire a sickening feeling in me. Especially as they self-righteously put on airs like they’re American patriots

    **hurl**

    • Agree: Orville H. Larson
  145. Avery says:
    @KA

    Turks keep ragging on Israel, while their genocidal, criminal, IslamoFascist, ISIS terrorist supporting state is squatting on Christian lands that were ethnically cleansed of indigenous Christians by invading nomad Turks from Uyguristan.
    Ethnically cleansed after a Genocide of about 4 millions Christians (1915-1923).
    Israelis can’t hold a candle to Genocidal Turks when it comes to killing and murder on a mass scale.
    Murder of defenseless civilians: old men and women; women; children; babies.

    At least some Israeli Jews can claim historic links to the lands of their ancestors living in Judea.
    What claim do you nomad Turks from Uyguristan have living in Asia Minor ?
    What are your nomad Turks doing occupying 40% of Cyprus ?
    Who are you invadonomad Turks to criticize Israel for anything ?

    Get out of Christian lands and go back to Uyguristan before you concern yourself with Israel.

  146. Art says:
    @KA

    The agitation against mosque and churches and Muslim shrines from 1987 have been carried out by the poor lower caste Hindus . All these agitations and violences happened at the instigation of upper caste

    Sounds exactly like the Jim Crow south. The rich white elite kept the poor whites and blacks at each others throats and invested their monetary gains in the north. Thus keeping the local poor – poor — and they the elite in power, skimming the profits, generation after generation.

    The rich of a tribal group agitate and sucker the poor of their group to hate and attack an outside grouping or faction. With the result, that the rich remain rich and the poor remain poor – such a deal.

    That is the mechanism of internal tribalism The poor folks get sucked into this infernal system of group hate, that keeps the elite of a tribal in power.

    p.s. Democracy or not – that his how it works. In the past the local wealthy maintained this system by owning everything that is important within the local culture. Even worse, today everything is owned by Wall Street. For things to change, local folks must legally and jointly own all the local important things that makes their culture function – stores, factories, and governments.

  147. Clyde says:
    @geokat62

    Ron Paul for president was 100% false flag operation. How he fooled so many is despicable!

  148. Clyde says:
    @KA

    Not that long ago,may be 3 yrs ago, US agreed to sell 40 billion worth of military supplies to Saudi and Gulf . To balance and to preserve the” Israeli upper hand”.

    Then Israel should get $40 million too. The Zionists got ripped off by Obama! Israel gets about 3 billion a year, mostly in military aid that must be spent with US arms manufacturers.

    • Replies: @Old Jew
    , @KA
    , @KA
  149. Art says:
    @RobinG

    “If he’s (O’Malley) not playing to win, at least he could call out the Israel Lobby. I guess he’s afraid he’d have no public OR private career later if he did that.”

    Exactly – he has to work the Jew divide and conquer political scene – or he will be trashed.

    Look at what is happening to these liberal collage administrators – they are being thrown under the buss by the latest divide and conquer politics – the extreme over the top Black Panther like “black lives matter” nonsense.

    I do not know how anyone can vote for these destructive people.

  150. Art says:
    @geokat62

    “Didn’t his father, Ron Paul, have “the gonads to routinely use the word ‘neocon’ and make more anti-war statements,” but he still didn’t make it to the convention?”

    We do not have to win this time. But we have to start someplace.

    If Rand Paul were to go to the Republican convention with 5 or 10 percent of the delegates spouting his anti-neocon, anti-war, anti-fed message that would be a major victory.

    Today we have ZERO. We need a acknowledged presence in the body politic. The truth is powerful – it will work its way.

    p..s. We could have a brokered Republican convention were no one have the required votes to win – those 5 or 10 percent could be king makers.

  151. Sam Shama says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    First, consider the status of Jews in Germany vis a vis Germans in Germany: which was the “invading” force and which was the indigenous body?

    You cannot mean that German Jews as a group were actively plotting against their country; or perhaps you do mean it, for it matters not at at all, Jews being eternal non-citizens definitionally, grouping Germans [who happened to be Jews] with the East European Bolsheviks [not all of whom were Jews] is par for the course. You often throw names like Weizman, Jabotinsky, Phillipe Rothschild etc. when you proffer these pro-NSDAP [better know as Nazis] tropes. Yet it is a rather straightforward matter, turning these particularist arguments on their heads, by simply noting that none of these ‘Big Jews’ owed any particular allegiance to Germany. To Britain, the Czar and France: certainly, and they shouldered those responsibilities admirably. That the Balfour Declaration was payment for a job well done – well what of it?

    Assimilation was not good enough for zionist Jews: key to the zionist Jewish mindset is the notion that Jews must be in charge

    Assimilation is an idea resisted by all human groups: it is called social choice; but that in no way precludes fealty to the country in which such groups claim and receive citizenship. If the Zionist mindset yearns to be in charge, so does the Italian, the British, the American, the Chinese, the Japanese, the Nigerian, the Iranian, and the Zambian. It might be coded in our DNA, broadly referred to as the human condition.

    The reality is Jews left Germany, under the directive of Louis Brandeis, after Brandeis & other zionist and Jewish leaders recognized that the vision they conceived in the aftermath of WWI and the German Revolution in 1918, of Jews successfully taking control of Germany, failed: Jews were a dominant force in Weimar and Weimar was a failure, politically, intellectually, financially and culturally.

    I would not call it a directive; more like sound advice on account of the slaughter that follwed. So if the Jews had failed in their sinister plot to take over Germany in 1918, how does that reconcile with you subsequent claim that Jews were undermining Germany from their internal control?

    The two paragraphs that follow the block I highlighted immediately above, are pathetic. Jewish immigration to the U.S. whether the result of opportunities or asylum, aided or not by prominent American Jews who were citizens of the U.S., presents no crime as such, does it? There is no requirement that individuals or citizen advocacy groups engage the channels of immigration, observing some strict requirement of uniformity administered to all nationalities. It has never been so in the U.S. That Jewish American citizens advocated for Jewish immigration, is no different from any other group or groups [WASPs e.g.] that have historically advocated immigration for their own kith and kin and, not to put too fine a point on it, had actually resisted immigration from southern and eastern Europe and prevented it from Asia.

    In their myth-history, on their way out Jews destroy the states where they had earlier dwelt prosperously, Egypt is the model.

    Right you are. Would you care for a bit of that ‘Prosperity’? I hear the Saudis, wearing the modern mantle of Pharaonic traditions are happy to oblige.

    I oppose the WB Zionists and their facilitators in this country, but the more I read such accounting of Jews as viruses, the less constant I feel in my resolve, that people can get past – once again – the Human Condition.

  152. Rurik says:
    @Sam Shama

    Hello Sam and welcome back!

    Not to jump in here, it was just this one quip of yours that I wanted to respond to..

    That the Balfour Declaration was payment for a job well done – well what of it?

    This is a nice little treatise by one of your fellow Jews. A smart and connected man, he knew of what he spoke

    http://www.themodernreligion.com/jihad/freedman.html

    when I read this decades ago, it was a kind of red pill for me back then

    I had marinated in ‘the narrative’ for so long, it hit me like a ton of bricks

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  153. @Sam Shama

    I’m not sure it’s worth engaging some of these solopsistic commenters. Their delusions – if they are not rather interlopers out to discredit legitimate critique by proximity to over the top antisemitism – are impregnable. Either way, facts will never change their habits. The only reason to post is then to engage with the original author’s writing, or in extremis to act as an antidote to the smear attempts to discredit him. Maybe some naive but otherwise fair soul who might get sucked in otherwise by some of the deceptive comments will see how easily they are debunked.

    • Replies: @Junior
  154. Old Jew says:
    @Clyde

    Not the same!

    Saudi pay.

    Israel receives for free.

    • Replies: @Clyde
  155. RobinG says:
    @Sam Shama

    Sam,

    “– the Human Condition.”

    There’s no escape. So what are we to do?

  156. Art says:
    @Sam Shama

    I oppose the WB Zionists and their facilitators in this country, but the more I read such accounting of Jews as viruses, the less constant I feel in my resolve, that people can get past – once again – the Human Condition.

    Sam,

    We humans have inherent good traits and bad traits. One side of the Human Condition promotes tribalness, pyramid top down coercion, and zero-sum thinking. On the other side of the Human Condition we find a hopefulness, kindness, and forgiveness that is exemplified in Christian philosophy.

    Why is it so often that the Jews (Big and Little) are found on the negative coercive side of the Human Condition, taking advantage of the worst side of our humanness?

    Art

  157. KA says:
    @Clyde

    Israeli supporters should do openly and in full view of the informed people , and hopefully Americans could hear from CNN ,NYT,FOX and doesn’t have to come to this site or to this one, http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stat/usaid.html

    Well ,then whole American will be called antisemites or who knows , might be accused of enforcing Yellow Ribbon .

    -”JERUSALEM — In a stinging rebuke to Israel, the European Union insisted on Wednesday that some goods produced on land seized in the 1967 war must be labeled “made in settlements,” a mandate that added to Israel’s deep unease over a growing international boycott.
    From Our Advertisers

    European officials tried to play down the decision, saying the guidelines merely clarified existing rules. But the move exacerbated already simmering tensions between Israel and Europe as Israeli politicians condemned it as an echo of the Holocaust-era branding of European Jews and their storefronts with yellow stars.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/12/world/middleeast/eu-labels-israeli-settlements.html?src=me&_r=0

    • Replies: @Clyde
  158. KA [AKA "Carthage"] says:
    @Clyde

    “In 2007, the Bush Administration and the Israeli government agreed to a 10-year, $30 billion military aid package for the period from FY2009 to FY2018. During his March 2013 visit to Israel, President Obama pledged that the United States would continue to provide Israel with multi-year commitments of military aid subject to the approval of Congress. This week, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu will be seeking a 10-year, $50 billion military aid package to succeed the current arrangement. The United States is pledged to insure that Israel commands a “qualitative military edge” over its neighbors.”

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/nov/9/bruce-fein-end-mideast-arms-sales-nonhumanitarian-/print/

    From same article -”Since October 2010, President Obama has notified Congress of proposed sales to Saudi Arabia of fighter aircraft, helicopters, missile defense systems, missiles, bombs, armed vehicles, and related equipment and services exceeding $90 billion.

    In 2014, the United States approved weapons sales to Iraq approaching $15 billion.”

  159. Sam Shama says:
    @Rurik

    I will keep this brief, acknowledging Fran’s advise to limit discussion (mostly) to the columnist’s topic at hand.

    I am familiar with Ben Freedman’s extemporaneous speech. There are many aspects in the prosecution of a war. Procuring the correct allies and proper use of diplomacy is part and parcel of it. The simple historical fact is that The British and their allies – the French and Russians, but mostly the British – were far more effective at it as the final results revealed.

    One can go as far back as one wishes in the European theatre to essentially witness that the Germans were every bit as covetous as any organised country, in their attempts to gain territory, economic resources and colonial assets of the day. So do spare me the hurt glances. They were simply outmanoeuvred by the British et al.

    And I have never claimed that the Zionists did not have their own motives, which was to carve out a piece of Palestine. They were more or less rebuffed by Germany, but struck a deal with the British. That is how the great powers have always played the game.

    Notice I have not inserted any value judgments of our present day on the plain story of the past: we can, and I do, especially in the context of the Palestinian situation; but that is another matter altogether, another challenge to overcome what I have called the human condition.

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  160. Sam Shama says:
    @Sam Shama

    P.S.: Art and RobinG

    Surely humans have a benevolent and a malevolent side. The struggle is to at least suppress the latter. In that regard I will say that among the Abrahamic religions, Christianity offers a simpler and elegant set of principles, but probably underestimates the cunning nature of the bi-pedal creature.

    The solution: I am still searching, but it must start from the individual, by recognising one’s own shortcomings and working towards the common good. It should be easier today with social media etc., should it not?

    • Replies: @Ronald Thomas West
    , @Art
  161. KA [AKA "Carthage"] says:
    @Ivan

    RSS is not India .Neither the Zionist can claim to represent all Jewish people . But majority just want to get along and keep to themselves

    I am sure large number of Hindus area aghast at this Fatwa -

    “NEW DELHI: RSS mouthpiece, Panchjanya, has justified the killing of Mohammad Akhlaq over rumours that he had eaten and stored beef in his house., in its latest edition has said the Vedas order the killing of ‘sinners’ who slaughter cows, reported Indian Express.

    The RSS weekly alleges that Muslim leadership teach Muslims to hate the Indian’s traditions.”

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/RSS-mouthpiece-says-Vedas-ordered-killing-of-cow-killers/articleshow/49437196.cms

  162. Rurik says:

    acknowledging Fran’s advise to limit discussion

    well Fran plays fast and loose with acusations of ‘anti-Semitism’, but for the record, I never said anything about Jews deserving to suffer. What I did say was that it’s wrong to want to see any innocent people suffer, even innocent Germans (if you believe there is such a thing) or anyone else for that matter- for things they had no part of. If that makes me an anti-Semite, then so be it

    No one is pooh-poohing diplomacy Sam. What is salient is the use of treachery and ignoble betrayal to achieve one’s nefarious goals, like tricking your foe into laying down his arms in a gesture of mutual diplomatic respect in a sort of white flag treaty, only to betray that diplomacy and attack you opponent once he’s disarmed- and then starve him into selling his progeny into slavery. Diplomacy is one thing, but the Brits were all too well known for duplicity and sticking knives into backs. Nothing to be proud of, even if you were ‘victorious’.

    As for value judgments, there are times in history when they should be made. Cruelty for its own sake, dishonesty, treachery as I’ve mentioned and genocide are a short list that to my mind are things that are reprehensible and vile sins that stain the fabric of your character, whether individual or national, even when it’s done to “win”.

    To this day people like Benedict Arnold, Quisling, Stalin, Judas and most recently Merkel are names that will live in infamy as name/words that describe a type of person that you don’t want to be. Justifiably and universally reviled, they are examples of the human condition at its worst. Moral relativism is the refuge of the scoundrel, and history can and should be a harsh judge. At least in my humble opinion. ; )

    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @Sam Shama
  163. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @RobinG

    Well, the majority of our Congressmen are kowtowing to politically organized Jews

    “Politically organized” is the KEY in your statement. And what are they politically organized to promote? They are NOT promoting the Jewish religion. They are promoting support for Israel. They are Zionists.

    Blame Jewish-Zionists, Christian-Zionists, Hindu-Zionists, Muslim-Zionists, Atheistic-Zionists, Buddhist-Zionists, and Followers of the Prophet/Profit- Zionists. Blame ANYONE who puts the interests of Israel over the interests of America. Blame the political ideology of supporting Israel that they are politically organized to promote, Zionism.

    The following is from the TrueTorahJews website:

    “While Herzl claimed that the establishment of a “Jewish” state would cure anti-Semitism, he also promoted anti-Semitism to further his cause.

    Herzl stated in his diary:

    “It would be an excellent idea to call in respectable, accredited anti-Semites as liquidators of property. To the people they would vouch for the fact that we do not wish to bring about the impoverishment of the countries that we leave. At first they must not be given large fees for this; otherwise we shall spoil our instruments and make them despicable as ‘stooges of the Jews.’ Later their fees will increase, and in the end we shall have only Gentile officials in the countries from which we have emigrated. The anti-Semites will become our most dependable friends, the anti-Semitic countries our allies.” (The Complete Diaries of Theodor Herzl. Vol. 1, edited by Raphael Patai, translated by Harry Zohn, page 83-84)

    The Israeli Historian Benny Morris described how Herzl foresaw how anti-Semitism could be harnessed for the realization of Zionism. He stated:

    “Herzl regarded Zionism’s triumph as inevitable, not only because life in Europe was ever more untenable for Jews, but also because it was in Europe’s interests to rid the Jews and relieved of anti-Semitism: The European political establishment would eventually be persuaded to promote Zionism. Herzl recognized that anti-Semitism would be harnessed to his own–Zionist-purposes.” (Righteous Victims, p. 21) ”

    A.K.A., you are being used as a tool by the Zionists to further their cause by promoting anti-Semitism.

    http://www.truetorahjews.org/herzl

    • Replies: @RobinG
  164. Clyde says:
    @Old Jew

    Not the same! Saudi pay. Israel receives for free.

    Because the Saudis are rich as can be from petroleum. And soon “the Jews” will be too with their new off shore natural gas fields that Bad Vlad and his crew will include under the emerging Russian MiddleEast-Iran defense umbrella.
    About 15 years ago I read a Rand Institute estimate that Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and the other Gulf oil states got 40 billion a year in free American aid in the form of the US Navy protecting the regional oil shipping lanes. This number must be roughly similar today under commie-Bama.

  165. Clyde says:
    @Ivan

    I get your thinking. What do you think the Hindu population was back then and what percentage was killed by the Islamic invaders? You don’t like the 80 million number. What to make a guess? My opinion it was a very high number. 20% at least, and up to 40% of Hindus slaughtered.

  166. Rurik says:
    @Rurik

    oops

    the above post was meant for Sam (and Fran ; )

  167. Clyde says:
    @KA

    Well ,then whole American will be called antisemites or who knows , might be accused of enforcing Yellow Ribbon .

    Do you deny that half the posters here are anti-Semites? I mean lets call a spade a spade. Aside from lame jokes that the definition of anti-Semite is anyone Jews don’t like. The usual real world situation (as opposed to the fantasies here) is someone doesn’t like Jews and Jews don’t like him. Meaning the hatred is mutual.

    • Replies: @KA
    , @OilcanFloyd
    , @annamaria
  168. KA [AKA "Carthage"] says:
    @Ivan

    “. In his Karamyog (2007), Modi writes that those castes fated to do sanitation work (clean gutters, sweep houses and cart away refuse), such as the Balmikis, do so as an “experience in spirituality.” “I do not believe that they have been doing this job just to sustain their livelihood,” says Modi, who anoints them to this despicable work because it is their “duty to work for the happiness of the entire society.” ”

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/03/11/on-the-wings-of-intolerance/

    It is no surprise that Modi enjoys so much following among rich Indian ,upper caste Indians and commands popularity and respects from Indian business communities . Cheap and voiceless labor are in plenty available on demand !
    But why do the poor ,indigent,and lower caste allow him or his party to get away with this racist condescending attitude?

  169. geokat62 says:
    @annamaria

    As I mentioned in a previous comment, I’d love to get a glimpse of the Mossad’s to-do list.

    • Replies: @Orville H. Larson
  170. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @Fran Macadam

    Their delusions – if they are not rather interlopers out to discredit legitimate critique by proximity to over the top antisemitism – are impregnable.

    I know exactly what you mean in your post to Sam, Fran. I think that a few of them ARE genuinely mislead but the MAJORITY of them are “interlopers out to discredit legitimate critique by proximity to over the top antisemitism” and attempting to smear Mr. Giraldi. They have no rational arguments that they can make in defense of Israel’s abhorrent actions because the truth is the truth, and so they resort to trying to turn people off to the truth by flooding his comments section with disgusting anti-Semitism.

    • Replies: @Ronald Thomas West
    , @Rurik
  171. @Sam Shama

    Hi Sam

    I would note Christianity is a schizophrenic religion divided between Yeshua and Saul. Never will the teaching of the two converge, they travel divergent paths. The end result is there are always ‘Christians’ on both sides of nearly every controversy; from the left to center right more those of the ‘simple and elegant’ Yeshua persuasion and on the neo-conservative right the ‘cunning bi-pedal’ of the accomplished liar Saul. But with the rise of neo-liberalism, the distinction is becoming less clear. In more or less all cases, on both sides of the divide, this schism is treated dishonestly for the collective social fear of facing a profound internal religious dissonance where one of the faith’s great teachers cannot be reconciled to the other.

    • Agree: Sam Shama
  172. KA says:
    @Clyde

    This site is anti ” every race,religion,and culture”
    May be Russian Orthodox religion and Chinese political leaders fare better .
    Give an example of anti semitism with the context and the links . We can have a discussion.
    .

  173. @Clyde

    Does everyone have to like and agree with Jews? There is a whole lot to dislike and oppose about organized Jewry, Jewish politics and culture and many individual Jews if you are a white American, European or a Muslim. The so-called anti-semitism that is being complained about is nothing compared to the anti-white or anti-Muslim hatred spewed daily in the media by Jews. I’d say that “anti-semitism” is often just a reaction to Jewish activism, politics and actions. It makes perfect sense to be in opposition.

    “Anti-semites” are generally pretty tame when compared to the average Jewish activist.

    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @Clyde
  174. Rurik says:
    @Junior

    Hello Jr.

    I have no way of knowing if Fran is referring to moi with her indignant if curious levy of “anti-Semitism”. But perusing this thread, I seem to be the one who’s ruffled her delicate feathers; and if anyone has bothered to notice why she seems to be accusing me thus, it isn’t because I claimed or suggested in any way that Jews in general are bad or blighted or deserving any appropriation whatsoever. No.

    What I did say is comment on her assertion that it would be somehow “more fair” if the German people were- instead of the Palestinians today- genocded out of their ancient lands (something many Jews are often known to fantasize about and even advocate for openly [see Plan, Morgenthau]) and persecuted and tormented and endlessly humiliated (even more so than they even are today) for something virtually none of them living had anything to do with whatsoever.

    That is what I said that seemingly threw her into a tizzy. ~ BTW, I like Fran’s comments here and have come to respect her intelligence and humanity, but that doesn’t mean that when she goes off the deep end in some crazed ethno-hate-fest that I or anyone else should be precluded from pointing out that irrational hatred of Germans is no less vile than irrational hatred of Jews, or anyone else for that matter.

    No?

    Now, is that reason enough to charge someone with the despicable charge of anti-Semitism? That they don’t hate Germans with enough genocidal vigor? That they don’t want to see the German people (or anyone else for that matter and especially the Palestinians who’ve suffered for so damn long) treated like Palestinians?!

    I didn’t think so.

    And to be fair and to be honest, I did point out some of the lies we’ve all been marinated vis a vis WWII and the Holocaust. I did mention that much of what we’ve been told about the Holocaust is lies. But then so too do all respected scholars, (including Jewish scholars) agree that there were many lies indeed about the Holocaust. Lies about lampshades and lies about soap, and then the numbers at Auschwitz are quietly amended from 4 million to 1.5 million but we’re all supposed to genuflect before that bullshit number of 6 million.

    But it would be silly and stupid and indeed, anti-Semitic to blame all Jews for the lies and treachery of a few. (something so obvious I shouldn’t even have to point it out!) In fact I was just talking to Sam about how during war people are often treacherous and full of menace and perfidy, but do I blame the English people for the demonic crimes of its government? Of course not! So why is it that if you criticize Israel or some of the terrible things some Jews have done, that right on cue, ‘boom’ there it is again, that screeching that you are a crazed, blind, hate-filled anti-Semite! And solipsistic too! ; )

    Is telling the truth, (and having some fun doing it) not welcome here?. In the short time I’ve come to this place I’ve grown to like it. It’s full of intelligent and eclectic people with widely ranging opinions and views. All I’m doing is trying to get a handle on things. Sometimes I put stuff out there that I’m not even sure of, and then ‘bang’, if I was wrong, boy oh boy do I find out right away. It’s great. But then too it seems there are times when the paradigm and narrative are treated like some kind of religions dogma that you’re not allowed to question. When that happens I always seem to find myself in trouble somehow.

    ~ Rurik, a natural born heretic ~

    • Replies: @Junior
  175. Rurik says:
    @OilcanFloyd

    The so-called anti-semitism that is being complained about is nothing compared to the anti-white or anti-Muslim hatred spewed daily in the media by Jews.

    I was watching Bill Maher a couple days ago and he had on David Frum and Anthony Weiner and as he did a segment on a study of the numbers of a demographic of white people dying off that harken back to the post Soviet era in Russia by suicides and deaths by heroine overdoses and alcohol poisoning in America, Bill Maher was openly gloating. He said something about ‘it’s a bad time for whites’, and then had a laugh like his whole audience hates white folks and couldn’t be happier that they were dying off and killing themselves.

    They went on to speculate that part of the problem white folks were having was that they had zero clout in our society today, (at least the ones who were snuffing it in droves) and that as Maher even mentioned, because America is an oligarchy today.

    I couldn’t help wonder what the reaction would have been if a white person had openly gloated on television that blacks or Jews were dying off in staggering numbers. But the very reason he was able to gloat thus is perhaps a clue as to why these white people feel so alienated. (hated and despised and made second-class citizens in their own country) But to hate white folks (and Germans in particular) is par for the course. We’re all supposed to! If we don’t, we’re accused of being ‘racists’ or ‘anti-Semites’

  176. annamaria says:
    @Clyde

    “…someone doesn’t like Jews and Jews don’t like him. Meaning the hatred is mutual…”
    1. It is profitable for you to conflate Jewishness and Zionism, but this conflation does not reflect reality: people could adore Spinoza and the beauty of his mind and, at the same time, abhor the Moldovan felon Avigdor Lieberman and his racist proclamations.
    2 The alleged “beacon of democracy” in the Middle East does not have a constitution, still. Do you know why? Does this absence have something to do with recognition of the highly undesirable principle of equality before the low? By the way, Israel does not have well-defined geographical borders, for the same reason.
    3. The US’ most-war-mongering think tanks are staffed with Zionists (you are free to refute this statement if you have facts). The wars that the US fought on instigation of Israel-firsters have depleted the US treasury and brought the US reputation into gutter. The Israel-firsters do not want their children to fight these wars (with a singe exception of a war maniac Ledeen): the Israel-firsters want to use the US’ dime and limb to achieve the Israel’s dominance in the Middle East, showing thus an exemplary behavior of a parasite using a host’ body. Why then are you surprised that so many Americans hate Zionists?
    4. Jewish people live in all main cultural centers around the globe, the best of these people are ashamed of Israel’s policies. Perhaps this shame is a true manifestation of Jewishness and of the noble traditions of Judaism.
    5. As a tribalist, you cannot escape the fact that any tribe includes both the best human beings and the worst. Here we are back to the faux accusation of anti-Semitism: it is proper to abhor the worst in human beings, whatever their ethnicity.

    • Replies: @Clyde
  177. @Rurik

    Bill Maher is a good example, but this has been going on for a long time. Jewish activists, comedians/comediennes, etc. have been spewing hatred in plain sight for decades. I think it’s funny that so many people want to make this issue into an academic or intellectual pissing match, when all you have to do is turn on the television, walk into a movie theater, switch on the radio or open a book, magazine or newspaper and it’s all right there in plain sight. Obviously the hatred and aggression is a major part of Jewish culture and religion, and it’s not just a few prominent people involved.

  178. Rurik says:

    Beautifully said annamarina !

  179. Clyde says:
    @OilcanFloyd

    No one has to agree with or like Jews but are half the posters here anti-Semites? I say yes. What do you say?
    Wait! Is it Jews or Zionists? Amazingly enough the most fiercely anti-Zionist here claim they have nothing against average Jews. I don’t believe them! They are so pro-Muslim because they like anyone who will destroy Israel. They should make their Hajj to Mecca and make their conversion complete.

    • Replies: @OilcanFloyd
  180. Clyde says:
    @annamaria

    4. Jewish people live in all main cultural centers around the globe, the best of these people are ashamed of Israel’s policies. Perhaps this shame is a true manifestation of Jewishness and of the noble traditions of Judaism.

    Those are the communist/socialist/liberal/leftist Jews. All other Jews support Israel. You have a love affair with Islam and its false prophet. Admit it! Don’t be ashamed. You are 1000% pro-Muslim because they try to destroy Israel which in your fevered mind is the source of all evil in that region. Even as Sunni and Shiite are killing each other by the thousands right now! You could care less about this slaughter. Some humanitarian you turned out to be!

    • Replies: @annamaria
  181. RobinG says:
    @Rurik

    Rurik, you are positing something very strange here: that Maher (or any Jew, by reason of being a Jew) doesn’t consider himself white. This would be an interesting research project for you. Can you find out what percentage of this O.D. cohort is Jewish?

    I don’t watch Maher, but that study is well reported. The demographic is middle-aged (more or less) white males. IMO Maher’s “clout” and “oligarchy” analysis is unnecessarily over-the-top. (He’s just a mean little idiot who tries to make nasty people feel clever.) A better analyst observed, not that they lack ‘clout’, but that they need a good job. Real unemployment rates are grossly underreported. As to why Blacks and Latinos aren’t showing the same spike in death rates in that age group, he speculated that it’s a matter of expectations. The white males assumed they’d be able to succeed, whereas the others did not and therefore did not have the same sense of failure.

    The details of these extra deaths would also be interesting. We may assume they are blue-collar types whose jobs have been outsourced, but there are plenty of law school grads working as admins, and college grads working as baristas. Probably some Jews among them.

    • Replies: @nannerglans
  182. @Clyde

    “No one has to agree with or like Jews but are half the posters here anti-Semites? I say yes. What do you say?”

    I don’t care. Why should I? Jews aren’t exactly famous for calling out or examining their own hate-mongers and sinners. I’d even say that when zionist and anti-zionist Jews fight, it mostly over who is the bigger threat to Jewish power or cohesiveness, rather than over the wrongs of either group.

    • Replies: @RobinG
    , @Clyde
  183. @geokat62

    “As I mentioned in a previous comment, I’d love to get a glimpse of the Mossad’s to-do list.”

    Hell, I’d love to get a glimpse of the Mossad’s blackmail list. Half the U.S. Government is probably on it. . . .

    • Replies: @annamaria
    , @Avery
  184. RobinG says:
    @OilcanFloyd

    You said, ” I’d even say that when zionist and anti-zionist Jews fight, it mostly over who is the bigger threat to Jewish power or cohesiveness, rather than over the wrongs of either group.”

    Yes, that’s why some people refer to the Jewish left as anti-Zionist Zionists. And hence the big flap over Alison Weir, and whether JVP and US Campaign are gatekeepers that prevent meaningful progress re. Palestine. This, of course, is debatable, but the chokehold that the Israel Lobby has on US politics is not.

    Awareness is growing. There’s a new book out –
    Congress and the Shaping of the Middle East

    http://www.amazon.com/Congress-Shaping-Middle-East-Beattie/dp/1609805615/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8

    • Replies: @Clyde
  185. Clyde says:
    @OilcanFloyd

    Jews aren’t exactly famous for calling out or examining their own hate-mongers and sinners.

    The same applies to the Muslim world or is it only Jews that you apply your genius level analytical skills to?

    • Replies: @OilcanFloyd
  186. Clyde says:
    @RobinG

    This, of course, is debatable, but the chokehold that the Israel Lobby has on US politics is not.

    Some chokehold. Obama and the half-Jew by blood John Kerry*** screwed Israel to the wall on Iran. AIPAC that you revile all the time got zero traction with the commie-Obama regime and not enough traction in Congress to stop anything. So much for those all powerful Zionist mind rays that make your shabbos goys dance to Hava Nagilla like a Zionist organ grinder’s monkey.
    Your tunnel vision keeps you from seeing this.

    ***Two of John Kerry’s grandparents were born Jewish which made you Jewish enough for the Germans to send you to the concentration camps during WW2.

    • Replies: @RobinG
  187. annamaria says:
    @Clyde

    “…the communist/socialist/liberal/leftist Jews. All other Jews support Israel.”
    “You are 1000% pro-Muslim because they try to destroy Israel…”

    May I suggest that you are a hasbarist-troll on the Unz Review comment site?

    • Replies: @Clyde
    , @Clyde
  188. annamaria says:
    @Orville H. Larson

    Sadly, this conjecture is most likely true…

  189. @Clyde

    @Clyde

    Who said Muslims are big on self/group criticism? I didn’t. We know that whites are more than capable of self or group criticism. The issue is Jews, and it’s pretty obvious that they are very tribal, for the most part. Muslims have very little voice or power in the West, and whites who confront Jewish power don’t have the same platform as even minor Jewish personalities in the media. Phil Giraldi would never be given major media time to offer his reasonable and mild views, yet I constantly see Jewish SJWs given airtime to bash whites, Christians, Muslims, the West, or to vent whatever other hatreds or bigotries they hold. One doesn’t have to be a genius or have great analytical skills to see the obvious.

  190. RobinG says:
    @Clyde

    Thank you for outing yourself unequivocally. As Annamarina said, “..you are a hasbarist-troll..” (Unless you’re just pathetically brainwashed.)

    There never was an Iranian nuclear threat, so no selling out. For playing along with the Mossad’s planted lap-tops the US now gets to gift Israel an additional 20 Billion (up form 30B to 50B) over the next 10 years, plus all kinds of weapons in addition.

    Phil’s review of “Manufactured Crisis”-

    http://original.antiwar.com/giraldi/2014/03/31/targeting-iran-2/

    “I am going to explain why Gareth Porter’s new book Manufactured Crisis: the Untold Story of the Iran Nuclear Scare is possibly the most important expose of political corruption and government malfeasance to appear in the past ten years. …the US and Israeli governments both knew that the entire process was completely bogus and that Iran had no nuclear weapons program..”

    • Replies: @Clyde
  191. Avery says:
    @Orville H. Larson

    {Hell, I’d love to get a glimpse of the Mossad’s blackmail list. Half the U.S. Government is probably on it. . . .}

    There are apparently lots of US Congress blackmail lists.
    Maybe names on blackmail lists are being sold or exchanged between parties.

    Years ago former FBI translator Sibel Edmonds was saying that former Speaker Hastert was being blackmailed. She didn’t say by whom. But this year it came out, when Hastert was nailed for lying about suspicious large cash withdrawals.

    Apparently he was paying off one of his victims for many years.
    Hastert was sexually victimizing male students when he was coach at some high school.
    Apparently Turks found out about it – or bought the info from some other party, most likely Israelis – and blackmailed him into going along with their denialist agenda. Apparently there was also a payoff of $500K.

    Hastert pleaded guilty to some federal financial crime: so there will be no public trial. All the years of him prostituting himself for some foreign government(s), while on the payroll of US taxpayers, gets buried.

    How convenient.

    Anyone remember Senator Larry Craig ? the one who was arrested for soliciting a male prostitute in a public restroom.
    US Congress must be full of weirdos, who are hiding something and are being blackmailed.

  192. @Avery

    One of the very practical purposes for a mass surveillance system that stores everything recorded for use by posterity. Should anyone show importance, they can be investigated and if anything at all is found, turned to advantage. It works whether it’s deployed against enemy foreigners, or allied opponents or even loyal citizens. The object is dominance and control. The technological imperative in our age, where there is a deep state, as Phil’s recent presentation at Georgetown showed, and where secret legal memos justify anything, is that there is no more moral restraint beyond “what can be done, will be done.”

    One of the interesting aspects I would have liked to have brought out had I been able to be present at that session with Bill Lind and Phil, is to ask about the transnational aspect of the Deep State, as evidenced by the integration of the democratically unaccountable Five Eyes Anglo agencies, which seem to have a greater loyalty and accountability to each other than to their respective public facing governments. The recent statements by British military leaders that they would never allow a democratically elected Corbyn government to take power means their loyalty lies elsewhere. Where?

    • Replies: @Avery
    , @Art
    , @RobinG
  193. Druid says:
    @Clyde

    You revel in ignorance!

  194. Art says:
    @Sam Shama

    Surely humans have a benevolent and a malevolent side. The struggle is to at least suppress the latter.

    Sam,

    Good is not the absence of bad – good has to be created – good is a product of actual work. Good can only happen when effort is expended.

    Our time is limited. Time spent suppressing bad is wasted time – it is not time spent working on good. On a plus minus scale – suppressing bad only gets you back to zero. It does not produce the good things that we need to sustain ourselves.

    The answer to bad people is to have nothing to do with them – to ostracize them – thus freeing one’s self for creative work that does good life extending things.

    Art

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  195. Avery says:
    @Fran Macadam

    {The recent statements by British military leaders that they would never allow a democratically elected Corbyn government to take power means their loyalty lies elsewhere. Where?}

    Don’t know where their loyalties lie, but glad you brought up the British military leaders publicly affirming that the charade the Anglo-American imperial nannies have been foisting on the weak and defenseless of the world to justify their invasions and meddling – “Democracy” – is a colossal fraud.

    The security apparatus in the supposed “Law & Order”, “Magna Carta”, “Democracy”, “Liberty”, etc, etc UK will veto or overthrow any democratically elected government that they – and only they – consider “unacceptable”: no different that any other dictatorships that the A-A Imperialists have “regime changed” to bring ‘liberty’ and ‘democracy’ to the benighted Hoi Polloi.

    The dirty tricks of the real rulers of UK is nothing new.
    People who are interested can look up the saga of PM Harold Wilson: MI5 mounted a full-on campaign to discredit him by dirty tricks, lies, innuendo, ….and have him overthrown. This was about 40 years ago.

    • Replies: @nannerglans
  196. Art says:
    @Fran Macadam

    The technological imperative in our age, where there is a deep state, as Phil’s recent presentation at Georgetown showed, and where secret legal memos justify anything, is that there is no more moral restraint beyond “what can be done, will be done.”

    Well stated – how true – thanks.

  197. Sam Shama says:
    @Rurik

    What is salient is the use of treachery and ignoble betrayal to achieve one’s nefarious goals, like tricking your foe into laying down his arms in a gesture of mutual diplomatic respect in a sort of white flag treaty, only to betray that diplomacy and attack you opponent once he’s disarmed- and then starve him into selling his progeny into slavery.

    Rurik,
    Its been a long day at work.

    You have used a number of charged terms: ‘nefarious’, ‘ignoble’, ‘white flag treaty’ among others. One should use those terms under careful advisement.

    Once again I will strive to keep this short in the interest of limiting the discussion of off-topic threads.

    I question your use of Freedman’s version of of the proceedings for the war period 1914-1919, by noting that his was a flawed version, not just in the factual accounting of events but more so in its failure to clearly distinguish responsibilities of various parties, including Zionist leaders who showed up in numbers at Versailles to secure a promise made to them by the British.

    We are not imposing value judgements at this juncture; but we can, and will in due course.

    First, other than a few, short and sharp German successes in early 1914, the War was very much in stalemate through 1917. It was the Allied Spring offensive of 1918 followed by the Summer, including the U.S., by that time,which sealed Germany’s fate and they sued for an armistice; they could have carried on, much like the exhausted Brits, just prior to Spring 1918, but they did not, did they? [ American zionists as American citizens lobbied successfully to procure American participation, and that was the clinching factor, but it is hardly the principal reason why America went to war; it saw great commercial and Industrial opportunity in an expectedly defeated postwar Germany] So the Germans lost, signed an armistice and the victorious allies continued to exact punishment on the German population until they saw their way clear to go to Versailles. If that is what you call ‘ignoble’, you would be wrong, since Germany would have done precisely the same, as they had amply demonstrated in previous wars with Russia and France.

    This was war.

    What was the treachery? On the part of which German Jew?

    Walther Rathenau whose name Freedman bandies carelessly in that screed, was a loyal German citizen who built one of the most successful German companies, AEG, and helped Germany during the blockade to manage its dwindling resources, was beseeched by the republic to be its Foreign Minister. He did accept that responsibility and shepherded Germany through the Treaty of Rapallo with the nascent Soviet Union and Versailles, only to be assassinated by the extreme Right. The Right in Germany [including the military leadership corps] conveniently and absurdly blamed the Jews for their own failure to win the Spring Offensive, and precipitated Rathenau’s assassination. Many years later Rathenau’s assassin [one of them I think] saw the mistake of his actions [especially after he received a letter from Rathenau's mother forgiving him] and condemned the Nazis, stating something along the lines of ‘It is your philosophy that brought ruin to Germany in the past!’

    So who are you calling a traitor? Weizmann? Jabotinsky? Arlozoroff? None of these men were German and owed no allegiance to Germany! They correctly backed the winner and demanded that the victor honour their pledge in the form of the Balfour Declaration.

    That is about the long of it.

    Now we can come to the value judgements. There are a few, and I choose only to highlight one: British support for a Jewish homeland in Palestine, even with its cryptic protections extended to native populations, was tenuous at best. Palestine was not their’s to carve. But such has always been the game of the Great Powers.

    And that is about the short of it.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  198. Sam Shama says:
    @Art

    Agree. Which is why I said ‘ ….at least suppress the latter’

  199. @Sam Shama

    Yet it is a rather straightforward matter, turning these particularist arguments on their heads, by simply noting that none of these ‘Big Jews’ owed any particular allegiance to Germany. To Britain, the Czar and France: certainly, and they shouldered those responsibilities admirably. That the Balfour Declaration was payment for a job well done – well what of it?

    Weizmann = Chalabi. He was not exerting his efforts for the ultimate benefit of the British; rather, he instrumentalized Britain for the benefit of Jews/zionists/the Palestine project.

    In what way did Weizmann benefit the British?
    Did the British win WWI in any meaningful way?

    The British did not win the war, but Germany certainly lost.

    Jews, however, did win: Edwin Black wrote in “The Transfer Agreement” that zionist Jews returned from Versailles in triumph — a dual triumph: they had acquired a homeland for Jews in Palestine, and affirmation of minority rights for Jews in European states where they dwelt.

    It’s possible, just maybe, that the German people noticed that at the cost of their children dying of starvation, Jews “achieved a dual triumph.”

    Rurik’s use of the word “treacherous” is appropriate:
    1. According to his long-time assistant, Leonard Stein, Weizmann set up three categories of antisemitism in the British leaders for whom, in your view, Weizmann was providing so much value. He assessed the type of antisemitism evident in the leaders he would need to influence, then set about exploiting that antisemitic impetus to gain his goal — the Balfour declaration.
    2. Once having isolated Lord Balfour as a suitable quarry, Baron Rothschild visited him daily, stroking his ego.
    3. Jews did not keep a key term of the Balfour declaration — that the Arabs in the region not be negatively impacted by Jewish settlement. The British agreed to plant Jews in Palestine for their own strategic interests, but it was also essential to British interests to maintain good relations with Arabs. Jews in Palestine interfered with that British requirement. Before very long, Jews effectively expelled the British from Palestine, having been weakened by the war that Weizmann helped them win.

    As for Rathenau — if I recall correctly he was in charge of industrial production and also of balancing domestic and war demands. Once again referring to Edwin Black’s “The Transfer Agreement,” where Black mentions in a decidedly cavalier manner the starvation-death of 800,000 German civilians, he blames it on inappropriate decisions to use resources to fight the war rather than to feed the population. Those decisions would have been made at Rathenau’s desk.
    (The very fact that Black treats the starvation of 800,000 German civilians so off-handedly suggests that very few, if any, Jews suffered starvation. Indeed, Jewish welfare agencies operated throughout the region during and after the war, assisting Polish Jews to safer harbor in Germany, and distributing either food or sufficient financial resources so that German Jews could obtain stuffs on black market. Germans who watched their children die may not have failed to notice that Jewish children were not starving.)


    Louis Brandeis’s directive that Jews should leave Germany will be discussed at a later time.

  200. RobinG says:
    @Fran Macadam

    Do you mean this at GW ?

    The State and Modern War

    • Replies: @Philip Giraldi
  201. geokat62 says:
    @Avery

    Apparently Turks found out about it – or bought the info from some other party, most likely Israelis – and blackmailed him into going along with their denialist agenda.

    This is how the game is played: through the power of The Lobby, the USG has entered into an MOU with the Zionist state to “share” signal intelligence that is collected on all US citizens. And to mitigate against the risk of blackmail, the MOU stipulates that should the Israelis come across information on high level USG officials, they will immediately destroy it. Ever wonder why some congress people – Lindsey Graham, John McCain, Dennis Hastert, Jan Schakowsky, etc. – are passionate defenders of the Zionist state?… now you know.

  202. RobinG says:
    @Philip Giraldi

    Thanks. Same thing (but your link has the other panels).

  203. Compare Niall Ferguson’s version of the WWI narrative with Sam Shama’s:

    “A narrative of WWI makes no sense. . . . A war begins. Bad guys in Central Europe start a war. They are hugely successful in the initial phase of the war. The British intervene and do disastrously in 1915. Then in 1916 they do even more disastrously. Then in 1917 they set a new record for doing disastrously, called Passendale. Then in the Spring of 1918 the Germans come within shelling distance of Paris with the most successful offensive of the war in the Western front to that date. And then in the Summer of 1918 the Germans collapse and the Allies win the war. . . . It makes no sense, because right up until the very last minute the side that wins seems to be doing significantly worse, and indeed it is.
    . . . The central powers were able to kill more than 30% of our side than they themselves endured. On a month-by-month basis there is no period when the Germans are not successfully killing more French and British soldiers then they are losing themselves.

    So my book . . . asks three questions: Why did the war start; Why on earth did it keep going, and why does it stop?

    It was inevitable that a war would start in Europe. What was not inevitable was the decision of the British government to intervene in that war. The decision taken in August 1914 was the greatest error of the 20th century: it was unlikely that the British would join the inevitable war on the European continent, and even more unlikely that the war should be joined by the United States of America.

    It would have been better for the world in general if Britain had not intervened in 1914 and allowed the Germans to win a continental war, as they had allowed the Germans to win in 1870. . . .

    What would a German victory have looked like? Answer: a lot like the European Union that we see today. That was a stated aim of the German war effort, and this goalThe German goals of unifying Europe and dismantling Russia posed in no way a threat to the British empire, and posed a lesser threat to the British than intervening. . . .”

    close

    but no ceegar.

  204. @Philip Giraldi

    Sorry about that – everything inside the Beltway exists for me through a haze best described as Foggy Bottom. George Washington, not Georgetown, yes. I suppose I was as confused as Washington Irving’s somnolent fugitive from a termagant spouse, when he found the King George Arms transformed into the George Washington Arms, but this time in the other direction.

  205. RobinG says:
    @Junior

    If you want to construe anything I’ve said (or my quoting Hertzl) as anti-Jewish, that’s your problem. Similarly, Canada has just found Arthur Topham guilty for satirizing – and thereby exposing – T.N. Kaufman’s “Germany Must Perish”.

    http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/2015/11/13/arthur-topham-vs-theodore-nathan-kaufman

    By Gilad Atzmon

    Arthur Topham, the man behind Radical Press, was found guilty yesterday on one count of communicating statements that “wilfully promote hatred against an identifiable group.”

    Some Canadians such as Harry Abrams, former B.C. representative for the League of Human Rights for B’nai Brith Canada, were thrilled. “Canada says that you should be able to walk in peace and not be fearful to be victimized, to be vilified, because of who you are or who you were born as,” Abrams told CBC News. But Topham, who has been married to a Jewish woman for over 37 years, doesn’t criticise or vilify Jews for who they are or the family into which they were born. He actually criticises some Jews, like Abrams, who subscribe to some particularly noxious tribally exclusive politics and ideology. Topham must have wrongly assumed that in a Western society, all forms of politics and ideologies, including Jewish ones, must be subject to criticism.

    Topham’s case is full of surprises. Topham was found guilty on ‘count one’ but not guilty on ‘count two.’ But the two counts are pretty much identical in meaning, content and context. Both counts refer to “communication of statements, other than in private conversation, that wilfully promote hatred against an identifiable group, people of the Jewish religion or ethnic origin, contrary to Section 319(2) of the Criminal Code.“ The two counts differ only in the dates they cover.

    Some commentators and legal experts speculated yesterday what led the jury to form such an inconsistent ruling. The documents, books and texts disseminated by Topham on his site (The Radical Press) within the period covered by both counts are all widely available to the Canadian public on many on-line outlets including amazon.ca. The one document on Topham’s site that has not been widely available recently is: ‘Israel Must Perish!’

    In fact, ‘Israel Must Perish!’ is a hateful text. It promotes hatred against an ‘identifiable group.’ The book advocates the genocide through sterilization of all Israelisand the territorial dismemberment of Zion. The text is a deeply problematic pamphlet that demands the strongest possible condemnation, except that it wasn’t really written by Arthur Topham. ‘Israel Must Perish!’ was actually written by a politically driven Zionist Jew named Theodore N. Kaufman in 1941 under the title ‘Germany Must Perish!’ While ‘Germany Must Perish!’, is advocating the extinction of all Germans, Topham’s ‘Israel Must Perish!’ is clearly a satire, quoting as it does,verbaitm from Kaufman’s original (He substitutes the word ‘Israel’ for ‘Germany’ and ‘Zionist(s) for German(s).)

    Topham’s satire, published in 2011, was obviously intended to make Israelis and Zionists reflect on their politics following a decade of extensive Jewish lobby advocacy of more and more immoral interventionist wars (Iraq, Syria, Libya, Iran etc). ‘Israeli Must Perish!’ is a mirror placed in front of the forgotten Kaufman’s ‘Germany Must Perish!’ Presumably, Topham saw some applicability of a critique of Germany in 1941 to Israel and global Zionism today.

    If history is the attempt to narrate the past as we move along, then the return to Kaufman’s text couldn’t be more timely and essential. In an interview in the September 26, 1941, issue of The Canadian Jewish Chronicle, Kaufman attempted to justify his plan for the “sterilization of all Germans”. He said:

    “I believe, that the Jews have a mission in life. They must see to it that the nations of the world get together in one vast federation. ‘Union Now’ is the beginning of this. Slowly but surely the world will develop into a paradise. We will have perpetual peace. And the Jews will do the most to bring about this confederation, because they have the most to gain. … Let us sterilize all Germans and wars of world domination will come to an end!” (Harold U. Ribalow (September 26, 1941). “Hitler Will Be Nothing But A Rosebud Says Author ‘Germany Must Perish!’. One Man’s Plan For Peace Forever”. The Canadian Jewish Chronicle. p. 5. Retrieved December 4, 2011.)

    At the time, Kaufman’s book was widely quoted in Germany as evidence of a Jewish plan for genocide against the German people. Goebbels wrote,

    “Thanks to the Jew Kaufman, we Germans know only too well what to expect in case of defeat.”

    American journalist Howard K. Smith was in Germany when Germany Must Perish! became known. He wrote:

    “No man has ever done so irresponsible a disservice to the cause his nation is fighting and suffering for than Nathan Kaufman. His half-baked brochure provided the Nazis with one of the best light artillery pieces they have, for, used as the Nazis used it, it served to bolster up that terror which forces Germans who dislike the Nazis to support, fight and die to keep Nazism alive …”( Howard K. Smith, Last Train from Berlin (London: Phoenix Pr., 1942), 134)

    When the Jews of Hanover were evicted on September 8, 1941, the local authorities cited Kaufman’s book as one of the reasons. The well respected German philosopher and historian Ernst Nolte argued recently that the German reaction to ‘Germany Must Perish!’ supports his view that WWIIwas a genuine response to German knowledge of a worldwide Jewish plot.

    And yet, Kaufman’s book was concealed for 7 decades. It didn’t fit into the Zionist Shoah narrative. It was, in fact, Arthur Topham and his crude satire that brought Kaufman’s hateful text to our attention.

    Topham’s crime is obvious, the radical man is guilty of unveiling some shameful corners in Jewish past, exposing some documents Jews would prefer to keep deep under the carpet.

    If Topham has to be penalised for contextualizing Israeli present within a Jewish historical continuum, we may have to accept it. Within the western ethos often enough the brave truth teller pays heavily for other people’s sins. But we should never forget that that within the same Western ethos, the truth has the unique capacity to resurrect itself.

    Make sure to save a copy of Germany Must Perish! onto your HD before it is removed by the Canadian thought police: http://www.radicalpress.com/?page_id=1314

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
    , @Junior
  206. Clyde says:
    @RobinG

    I am not a hasbarist and The Israelis don’t pay me you fool! There is more chance of the Iranians paying you. Wake up, there is a bigger world out there/ The Muslims you cater to went on Jihad in Paris last night killing 150. So wake up dudeski! Snap out of it!

    • Replies: @Art
  207. Clyde says:
    @annamaria

    Why not admit you will support any Muslims who want to destroy Israel? Wear it proudly! Go wear it in France where the Jihadist cause that you want to destroy Israel is destroying Paris first. 150 dead so far and the maimed might be maimed for life. Missing a leg, an arm, a kidney and so on. Same as many were maimed by the Muslim mini-Jihad at the Boston Marathon a few years ago. To my memory five people lost a leg.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  208. Clyde says:
    @annamaria

    My take is the Israelis are paying you to make the Iranians and other Muslim Jihadists look bad via your fanatical posts. I must admit its a clever form of hasbara. Are you allowed to tell me how much the Likud party pay you for this? Also what’s the inside scoop on Benjamin Netanyahu? Does he really think Obama is a gay crypto-Muslim?

    • Replies: @annamaria
  209. @Avery

    One, most non-white peoples don’t even want “democracy”, and two, when they do get it and then vote in a way the white powers don’t like, they know they will be overruled anyway.

    Almost all Arabs want the Jews out of Palestine, but if they all vote for that, is it going to change anything? Of course not.

    Any normal person will resent being involved in something they see as a humiliating sham.

    When I was in junior high, two kids got hit by cars coming out of a blind exit on the side of the building. (None were killed or maimed, but one lost a couple of teeth, and one had a broken arm.) The students petitioned the principal to have a stop sign and a line put on the exit. A student council kid asked for an assembly. The principal held one-and the students were told that it was the student’s fault and that nothing would be done, and said “Anyone who wants to talk about this can come to my office, and we’ll talk about five seconds, and they will be suspended and their parents can explain it to them.” (In those days, in our town, parents all backed the administration pretty much one hundred percent. It was the good old days there, even if it was the Disco Era out East.)

    Most of us in that assembly never voted in any sort of student council or other such election as long as we attended that school. I never did. We never said a word, we just didn’t participate in elections.

    Years later, I worked in a manufacturing plant where the management had a similar attitude. They always asked us what we thought or if we had any ideas to improve things. At first, people participated, but after every proposed idea was ignored at best and occasionally ridiculed, we decided we were not playing any more. No one would be seen within fifteen feet of the “Suggestion Box”, and at “team meetings”, quiet was the rule.

    Seen in that light, the failure of “bringing democracy” to the Middle East, or everyplace else it has failed, makes perfect sense.

  210. @RobinG

    I’m presently employed by a division of an extremely large corporation that does work primarily for the railroad industry. (We have a few other customers-utilities, pipeline companies, and as unlikely as it sounds dog racing tracks-but it’s 95% rail.) I frequently visit rail facilities and interact with union craft railroaders quite a bit. Most of those jobs require only a high school or GED education, but I am no longer surprised when I find out that Fred the carman or Donna the clerk has a master’s, professional, or Ph.D. degree. I’d say more than a quarter have at least a bachelor’s degree and so far I have met just about everything but an actual M.D. I have met CPAs, lawyers, engineers, airline pilots, IT people in some profusion, former clergymen, you name it.

    Some are there because of personal or professional problems in their former careers but most because they figure it’s less work for the same or more money. Most say that no amount of money would lure them off the yard.

  211. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @Rurik

    I was agreeing with Fran’s observation in general of the reason why some commenters are anti-Semitic or pretending to be . I wasn’t trying to direct it at anyone in particular. I, without a DOUBT, enjoy reading your comments, Rurik! What’s funny though is that I don’t even think that the comment from Fran to Sam was about one of your comments when you check the thread :)

    • Replies: @Rurik
  212. annamaria says:
    @Clyde

    For Clyde specifically, a reprint of my previous post:

    “There has been a long jolly season of sowing the teeth of dragon… See the green shoots in Paris. The harvest should be named after the US neocons; they absolutely deserve that kind of fame. Was not it fun to use the new shiny weaponry, while destroying the pretty-well functioning states of Iraq, Libya, and Syria? How many refugees were produced by the Iraq War alone? – some two million (2.ooo.000)? What about hundreds of thousands of Libyans and Syrians? What about children reduced to bags of shredded meat by the US-made precision bombs and about such places as Fallujah poisoned by depleted uranium? What were the words of the WH imbecile? – “We will fight them there so we don’t have to fight them here…”
    My heart is with the victims of the Paris massacres.”

    An addition for Clyde, (an excerpt from Yinon Plan): Israel “must effect the division of the whole area into small states by the dissolution of all existing Arab states.” http://www.globalresearch.ca/greater-israel-the-zionist-plan-for-the-middle-east/5324815

    • Replies: @geokat62
  213. geokat62 says:
    @annamaria

    Thanks for highlighting the most damaging statement of the OY paper, Annamarina.

    People need to realize who is responsible for all the mayhem in the ME, especially in light of the recent events in Paris.

  214. @RobinG

    In an interview in the September 26, 1941, issue of The Canadian Jewish Chronicle, Kaufman attempted to justify his plan for the “sterilization of all Germans”. He said:

    “I believe, that the Jews have a mission in life. They must see to it that the nations of the world get together in one vast federation. ‘Union Now’ is the beginning of this. Slowly but surely the world will develop into a paradise. We will have perpetual peace. And the Jews will do the most to bring about this confederation, because they have the most to gain. … Let us sterilize all Germans and wars of world domination will come to an end!” (Harold U. Ribalow (September 26, 1941). “Hitler Will Be Nothing But A Rosebud Says Author ‘Germany Must Perish!’. One Man’s Plan For Peace Forever”. The Canadian Jewish Chronicle. p. 5. Retrieved December 4, 2011.)

    Rabbi Ken Spiro, AISH.org (uploaded June 2010, accessed Nov. 2015)

    “From Abraham onward the Jewish people have a unique mission in the world, to connect people to god, absolute meaning; to elevate the world morally and spiritually . . . which means, to take responsibility to teach the world values — moral values, ethical values: that’s what chosen people has always meant to the Jewish people. Chosen for unique responsibility to fix [i.e. castrate] the world.”

    • Replies: @annamaria
    , @RobinG
  215. annamaria says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    “… to teach the world values — moral values, ethical values: that’s what chosen people has always meant to the Jewish people…”

    The tragedy is the corruption of the noble Jewish tradition by money and power. There are many great Jewish minds, of the highest moral order, that made tremendous contribution to the humanity, and there are the low-life opportunists that would destroy the whole world for their villainous “chosen” fairy-tales.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  216. RobinG says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    S2C, this kind of nonsense discredits any legitimate observation. Atzmon is quoting some nut (who was probably shunned by most of his own tribe, hence the suppression of his book). But you are purposely distorting an admonition to strive to improve the human condition.

    The ‘chosen’ business is a trifle messianic, but your neutering fixation is malicious. Support like this, I don’t need.

    • Agree: Sam Shama
  217. @annamaria

    There are many great Jewish minds, of the highest moral order, that made tremendous contribution to the humanity,

    What does a “Jewish mind” look like?

    Does it have the standard cerebrum – cerebellum – medulla as the brain of, say, a Pole or a Chilean, a Frenchman or someone from Togo?

    Why is it that US culture spends so much effort identifying “Jews” — and Blacks and Muslims, for opposite reasons — but is largely incognizant of the ethnic heritage of almost any other participant in the public life of the USAian community?

    I don’t think Jews are any different from any other group identified by ethnicity or religion-mythic attachment/identity.

    It seems that the most harmful thing one can say to or about a Jew is “you are not special, not as a group, and as an individual, only in terms of your contributions to society.”

    But if “All men are created equal, ” which means, as I understand it, that all men (& women) have the same guarantees of protection of their rights to life, liberty & pursuit of happiness as any other man (woman), no more and no less, then why is public discourse in USA so very careful to identify Jews, and why do US laws specifically protect Jews and speech and even thoughts about Jews? Why, for example, was the swastika in a bathroom a major issue in Missouri, where Blacks are contending for their rights? A swastika has no power to hurt anyone. If Jews don’t like it, don’t look. I don’t like seeing the star of David intertwined with the US flag at AIPAC conferences. I think I and all Americans have a far greater right – even obligation — to complain about that than does anyone have a right to complain about swastikas.
    Jews, or certainly Israelis, demand — and are provided — far greater state-based protection of their rights, even at the expense of the abstract rights of others — as the Topham case testifies.

    People of all levels of accomplishment, from those with the most carefully bred and trained cerebellum to the lowest-on-the-totem-pole working-class cerebellum like the meter maid — all possess some innate barometer that registers, “That’s not fair!” when the state, that government by the people, grants one group preferential rights over another. The out-group will, at some point but inevitably and by whatever means at hand exert effort to reclaim their rights.

  218. Rurik says:
    @Sam Shama

    Hey Sam,

    The weekend is here!

    charged terms: ‘nefarious’, ‘ignoble’, ‘white flag treaty’ among others. One should use those terms under careful advisement.

    I agree

    I question your use of Freedman’s version of of the proceedings for the war period 1914-1919, by noting that his was a flawed version, not just in the factual accounting of events but more so in its failure to clearly distinguish responsibilities of various parties, including Zionist leaders who showed up in numbers at Versailles to secure a promise made to them by the British.

    huh?

    It was Freedman’s point that WWI was dragged out and Germany was defeated due to the intrigues of Zionists. You seem to be re-making his point for him.

    American zionists as American citizens lobbied successfully to procure American participation, and that was the clinching factor, but it is hardly the principal reason why America went to war; it saw great commercial and Industrial opportunity in an expectedly defeated postwar Germany] So the Germans lost, signed an armistice and the victorious allies continued to exact punishment on the German population until they saw their way clear to go to Versailles. If that is what you call ‘ignoble’, you would be wrong, since Germany would have done precisely the same, as they had amply demonstrated in previous wars with Russia and France.

    The American people didn’t want war and didn’t care about “Industrial opportunities”. They had to be lied into the war with lies about Belgian babies tossed on bayonets and the sinking of the Lusitania, which was cynically used by the regime as a casus belli to get Americans to agree to fight the war. And we all know now that the Germans were right and that the Lusitania was an armaments ship full of war munitions and Germany had every right to sink it. The American passengers were used just like their tried to use the sailors on the USS Liberty, as chumps to be sacrificed for their war treachery aims. (there’s that word again. I call it treachery because the American government knew the ship had munitions and hoped and expected the Germans to sink it. When they boarded the American passengers on that ship, they did so hoping they would die horribly so that their lives could be used as a pretext to slaughter even more people. Kind of like 911, when they told the people in the second tower after the first jet hit to return to their offices and cubicles and that there was no danger. Knowing that the second jet was on its way and knowing that many of those people were going to be slaughtered. But just like with the Lusitania, and USS Liberty, they wanted maximum casualties as their pretext and casus belli for a contrived war. I call that treachery Sam. What would you call it?)

    What I call ignoble Sam is the way the allies tricked the Germans into disarming so they could starve them into signing the extremely ignoble Treaty of Versailles that tuned the German people into slaves of the allies and handed them over to hostile regimes by the millions and allowed people hostile to the Germans (mainly Jews) to buy up Germany’s newspapers and cultural institutions like the theaters and positions of power at pennies on the dollar and then lord it over the Germans and mock them and scourge them and turn their teenagers into prostitutes and often homosexual prostitutes and turned Berlin into one big brothel for the perverts of the world. Very ignoble indeed. But perhaps not as ignoble as the betrayal (and I consider all betrays as ignoble Sam) as using Wilson’s Fourteen Points to get the Germans to trust the devious scoundrels who plotted against Germany (out of sheer envy) and told the German people that if they would just lay down their arms, that the agreement that was going to be used was based on these Fourteen Points that promised national self-determination. Which is all Germany ever wanted in the first place. So the German government agreed to this treachery and the ignoble betrayal followed. Once Germany laid down their arms, the allies ripped up the Fourteen Points and told Germany that they were to agree to enslave the people of Germany to the allies and bankers and assorted treacherous fiends who hated the German people and foisted the infamous Weimar Republic on them which led to Adolf Hitler and the Nazis and the Holocaust and sixty million people slaughtered that basically you can trace to the Balfour Declaration. But then they got their Israel didn’t they? On the smoking ruins of Europe and so many millions of dead Russians and Europeans and unimaginable suffering. I guess in order to make an omelet, eh Sam?

    What was the treachery? On the part of which German Jew?

    No, the treachery was on the part of the allies. England and Belgium and France and Poland, etc. Wilson and his Fourteen Points was a dupe and was simply laughed out of the room. As far as the Jews go, that’s all there in Freedman’s screed. And their treachery came latter in the form of abusing the German people once they had control of the government and cultural institutions. They used that power to promote homosexuality and denigrate the Germans and even their ancestors and perhaps most intolerably the young men whose lives were so tragically squandered in the trenches by fat, rich old men who profited while the young men

    http://www.corbisimages.com/images/Corbis-UWW371INP.jpg?size=67&uid=a5b1ae9a-5d32-454d-9b3e-46992904ebc1

    Kipling wrote a short poem about it

    If any ask why we died- tell them because our fathers lied

    ‘Charged terms’ like ‘nefarious’ or ‘ignoble’ don’t even begin to describe the evil and horrors these young men suffered. The mustard gas, artillery wounds, the mindless inhumanity and all because of rich old sacs of shit who didn’t get so much as a scratch on their manicured fingers.
    (I’m not a fan of contrived wars for the fun and profit of powerful old men while the poor are burned alive or enslaved in gulags are worked to death or wander the world missing limbs or eyes or worse. Words like nefarious are inadequate. Men like John McCain and Lindsey Graham and Dick Cheney deserve to die like the way they send others to die for their own profit and vanity. May they rot in hell.

    He did accept that responsibility and shepherded Germany through the Treaty of Rapallo with the nascent Soviet Union and Versailles, only to be assassinated by the extreme Right.

    Good!

    The Right in Germany [including the military leadership corps] conveniently and absurdly blamed the Jews for their own failure to win the Spring Offensive

    They blamed the Jews f0r bringing America into the war against them. And they were right to do so. Even as the Jewish people prospered and thrived in Germany, they treacherously brought about Germany’s ruin for goals of their own. You too would be resentful for such a thing if you were a young corporal in the trenches watching your comrades get maimed and slaughtered for nothing.

    I guess Sam you’d just put all of that down to, ‘hey, it was war’. But then what about the Holocaust? Was that also just a case of.. ‘what’s the big deal. It was war after all?’

    So who are you calling a traitor? Weizmann? Jabotinsky? Arlozoroff? None of these men were German and owed no allegiance to Germany! They correctly backed the winner and demanded that the victor honour their pledge in the form of the Balfour Declaration.

    did I call anyone a traitor? It wasn’t that the Jews were traitors, it was specifically the treachery of selling out Germany, (who had welcomed the Jews into their country after they came running for their lives from the Tzar and were very prosperous in Germany, only to have their hospitality betrayed when the Jews saw some advantage for themselves in backing England. How would you feel if you were a German back then and watched all of this unfold? Germany suffered terribly under the Versailles Treaty. They suffered the ravages of having foreign Jews buy up Germany after the war. Remember our conversations about the Fed and how it’s a counterfeiting machine for the Jewish bankers who own it? Well they used that counterfeiting machine to buy up Germany and turn it into a playground for the world’s wealthy and powerful perverts and assorted scum. (I admit those last words were a value judgment call)

    Palestine was not their’s to carve.

    on that Sam, we agree.

    as for value judgments, Germany trusted the honor and that ‘white flag treaty’ of the allies when Germany disarmed and put the fate of Germany and the German people and their future in the, by now infamous Fourteen Points. And then they were betrayed and literally starved into signing away the future of Germany to fiends and scoundrels who took full advantage and raped Germany raw. To add insult to injury they made Germany accept responsibility for a war that Germany didn’t start, didn’t want to fight and were dragged into by the schemes and treachery of Russia and Europe. It was Germany who wanted to end the war when it was clear that the flower of Europe’s youth were being wasted in those terrible trenches. Germany seemed to be the one noble and honorable player in that whole sickening affair, and then were rewarded for their nobility by having the ignoble of the world rape Germany as viciously as any war time rape of an enemies’ women.

    The result was WWII and even more slaughter and rape and horrors. And they’re (bankers and assorted wealthy and powerful old men) trying to do the same thing in this century.

    Not just Jews Sam, but with people like the Kagan cabal and Sheldon Adelson and Kristol and Bibi and a lot of others, Jews are woefully overrepresented in the cheerleader sections for war. I wish it were otherwise, and its also important to realize that it certainly isn’t only Jews clamoring for the blood of innocents. The Sunni regimes and their sub-human thugs running around the Levant are also very troublesome as are the legions of gentile war-pig traitors of Europe and the US to their nations and people.

    I hope saner heads prevail, Sam. I get the impression you’d agree with at least that part.

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  219. Rurik says:
    @Junior

    Hey Jr,

    and I particularly enjoy reading yours as well!

    I think the main reason I considered Fran’s wrath directed at me, (other than the fact that is was SC and I who were contentious of her words advocating the genocide of Germans) was when she said to Sam, ‘don’t engage the anti-Semites or at least keep it short’, and then Sam responded to me by saying something like ‘in keeping with Fran’s advise, I’ll keep this short’, thereby implying that it was humble little moi who was being thusly scourged and maligned : (

    • Replies: @Fran Macadam
    , @Junior
  220. Art says:
    @Clyde

    “Wake up, there is a bigger world out there/ The Muslims you cater to went on Jihad in Paris last night killing 150. So wake up dudeski! Snap out of it!”

    Hey Clyde,

    Is your last name Cheney? You sound like that bloody old bastard.

    How do you explain why things just get worse and worse – the more we listen to you warmongers – the worse things get.

    YOUR warmongering is killing off Christians in the ME. How does that help? What good have you done – tell us.

    America needs to wake up to bloody hard line warmongers like – YOU – you bring destruction and chaos to our shores. The more we kill them, the more they kill us – Daaaaaaaaaa!

    People who endlessly pump fear – are evil.

    Art

    • Agree: geokat62
  221. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @RobinG

    If you want to construe anything I’ve said (or my quoting Hertzl) as anti-Jewish, that’s your problem.

    My quote from Herzl in my post and my interpretation of what he said was in response to your use of your Herzl quote. By your use of the quote in which Herzl refers to a religion instead of an ideology seems to me to be saying that you’re trying to identify the religion as the problem. By failing to make the distinction between Zionism and Judaism you are advancing the Zionist cause by propagating their false narrative that they are the same. The Zionists want their false narrative to be true so that any criticism of Israel is falsely seen as criticism of the Jewish religion to misdirect the aim from the true problem which is Zionism and it’s stranglehold on our politics. Your quote from Herzl that you posted does this exact thing. It seems that you are doing it to try to make it easier for you to identify them by conflating the two, but just because it’s easier doesn’t mean that the conflation is correct unless your intent really is to criticize the Religion and not the Political Ideology of supporting Israel.

    • Agree: geokat62
  222. @Avery

    ” . . . US Congress must be full of weirdos, who are hiding something and are being blackmailed.”

    Could be. In any case, they’re bought-and-paid-for hacks.

    You may be sure that the Mossad avidly collects dirt on the members of the Parliament of Whores. In case they deviate from the we-love-Israel script, the Mossad can yank their leash–hard.

  223. @Rurik

    Never advocated genocide of anyone! Germans are some of my best friends!
    I think Germany is a good friend to Israel. (Maybe so much so, that is why Bibi says the Holocaust is the fault of the Palestinians – covering for a new friend? After all, a lot of Jewish people are German, too, despite the late opinion of Nazis, so maybe the ability to identify more easily with other Europeans, including settler propensities? )

    • Replies: @Rurik
  224. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @Rurik

    I see what you’re saying and definitely understand why you would want to defend yourself if you feel that way. I would do the same if there was a situation in which I felt that I was being unjustly accused by someone. I think that the atmosphere that the Hasbara trolls are trying to create, with their tactics of being outrageously anti-Semitic to turn people off from seeking truth, gets everyone, that are trying to have rational discussions about Israel, on edge because their attacks are vile attacks on our freedom to express ideas.

    They are attacking our rights to freedom of speech and are doing it in such an insidiously nefarious way that it makes people put their guard up… with good reason. The people on here that are trying to have an exchange of ideas are trying to protect their rights from the people with agendas and so I feel that we SHOULD keep our guard up as long as it doesn’t stop us from expressing ourselves and sharing our ideas in the search for truth. Otherwise they win. And so the battle to protect our rights rages ever forward. Onward, Rational Soldiers! :)

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
    , @Rurik
  225. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:

    Some theme music that I hope brightens anyone’s moods who are feeling down from the negativity of all the Hasbara Trolls assaults on our freedom of speech :)

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  226. annamaria says:
    @Clyde

    If only your government had some wisdom and saw the madness of Yinon Plan.

    “Iran’s Deputy Top Commander Warns US, European Allies Not to Misuse Paris Tragedy against Muslims.”

    http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13940823001420

    Deputy Chief of Staff of the Iranian Armed Forces Brigadier General Massoud Jazzayeri warned Washington and its European allies not to replay the September 11 theatre to pressure and attack Muslims by misusing the Friday night’s terrorist events in Paris.
    “The French people paid the price for their government’s support for the ISIL and the Takfiri terrorism,” he said.
    Jazzayeri warned the US and its allies against misusing the Paris events to attack and pressure the Muslim states like what they did against Afghanistan and Iraq after the 9/11 attacks in 2001 and 2003, and said Iran had many times warned that certain European countries’ support for the terrorists will backfire on their advocates one day.
    He also referred to the Thursday terrorist attack in Beirut which killed over 40 people, and said, “The Paris and Beirut blasts are the two sides of the same coin and the international community expects the supporters of Takfiri terrorists, specially the US, France and other western governments, to give up their discriminatory approach and behavior and adopt a common and united position on these crimes.”
    The Iranian officials strongly condemned the attacks and called for overall and serious fight against terrorism.
    Iranian President Hassan Rouhani in a message to his French counterpart François Hollande extended his condolences on the killing of people in a series of bombings and shootings in Paris, and reiterated the need for collective efforts to fight against terrorism.
    “I, on behalf of the great Iranian nation, which itself has been one of the victims of the ominous phenomenon of terrorism, strongly condemn these anti-human crimes and extend my condolences to the bereaved nation and government of France,” President Rouhani said in his message on Saturday morning.
    He expressed deep regret over the killing and wounding of a large number of innocent people in Paris, and said, “Undoubtedly, the world’s most important message in such events is more serious will and determination to launch overall fight against the terrorist groups.”

  227. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Junior

    That video that Jr. posted above is one of the most disgusting things that I’ve EVER seen! Nothing but a bunch of perverts and pickpockets pretending to want hugs, the whole damn lot of them! Oh jeez, I almost forgot about my smear mission! Umm… I need to think of something outrageous to say that sounds realllly jew-ey hate-ey so that nobody will want to read any articles like this that might make them question US support for an apartheid regime… Umm, I’ll have to get back to you all when my depraved mind comes up with one for my next post. Until then… I demand silence and that no rational arguments be made or I’ll get my minions to flood this comment section with so much hateful drivel that it will make the propaganda that we’ve already tried to fill this section with, look like mere child’s play.

    Worst wishes,
    Hasbara Troll(Agent #27000, Sergeant of the S.A.D. (SilenceAllDissent) branch, and Commander of the G.A.G. (GetAfterGiraldi) unit)
    for any questions on joining the Hasbara SAD GAG unit please email me at [email protected]@gmail.con ;)

    On what I, at least, think is a cool side note, I read a comment from the guy who put together the video that I posted earlier in which he said that the people in the video who are holding up the signs in Hebrew were from Israel and went into Palestine. And that the other signs in Hebrew that they had with them said “Peace begins with a single hug”, along with the “Free Hugs” ones. I know that, of course, it doesn’t make up for all the absolute misery that the Palestinians have been put through, but you gotta start somewhere and it restored my faith in humanity a little bit to see something other than bombs going into Palestine from Israel.

    Best wishes,
    Jr. :)

  228. @Fran Macadam

    If history were more fair, Germany would now be a Jewish State and ethnic Germans would be the ones living in the condition of Palestinians…

    Benjamin Netanyahu shares your sentiment, Fran Macadam:

    Netanyahu says Palestinian acceptance of Israeli security control key to two-state deal
    WASHINGTON—Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Tuesday that the “real test” of a two-state solution is Palestinians, Arabs and the world accepting Israeli security control over areas ceded in a peace deal.
    Netanyahu, who later met with members of Congress, said Israel must be able to defend itself, by itself.
    This includes threats from any territory Israel relinquishes, including hundreds of kilometres of borders subject to potential tunneling.
    Palestinians oppose this demand because they see it as blocking a “fully sovereign” Palestinian state, the Israeli leader said at the Center for American Progress think-tank in Washington.
    But he cited South Korea and World War II losers Germany and Japan as countries that prospered under foreign security control.

    “Foreign security control” is another word for Occupied, and attendant prosperity is, as was the Marshall Plan, more for the benefit of the occupier than the people who had surrendered their sovereignty. In other words, prosperity under foreign security control is socialized colonization in which colonizers eliminate the occupied’s right to self-defense, and derive economic and strategic benefits but disclaim responsibility for the well-being of the population.

  229. @Junior

    what a load of nonsense.

    In essence, you wrote: People who state facts or express views with which I disagree is an attempt to interfere with my right to my opinions.

    If the facts disturb you, or a perspective disturbs you, contend with them, don’t whinge about the disparity.

    Free speech is not all about YOU, it is about the commonweal.

    Free speech aims at getting the facts right; getting all the facts on the table, and framing perspectives in a way that comports with what achieves the greatest good for the most people — in which “people” means ALL people everywhere, those pesky Iranians and Palestinians, Arabs and Muslims, even Germans and that most hateful of all categories, Germans who were and are loyal to their nation, having the same right to speak freely, to prosper, and to defend themselves as do Anglos and zionists.

    insert emoticon

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
    , @Junior
  230. @SolontoCroesus

    still lacking edit function

    second sentence should read:

    In essence, you wrote: Stating facts or expressing views with which I disagree are attempts to interfere with my right to my opinions.

    Here’s an example, from Anglo-zionist occupied Germany, of what real denial of free speech looks like:

    Holocaust-denying ‘Nazi grandma’ gets 10 months in jail http://news.yahoo.com/holocaust-denying-nazi-grandma-gets-10-months-jail-102136724.html

  231. Sam Shama says:
    @Rurik

    Well I see that canvas has been painted, or rather splashed [by birds of a feather] with grime as expected. I make mild reference to some of your own sentiments, but more so the tag-effort with which S2C has hijacked(?) them, and nary a squeak of protest from you.

    It is difficult to separate wheat from chaff.

    [MORE]

    Freedman’s position [which I am glad to see you agree with my label of it as a screed] is not not atypical of virulent anti-semites, so in love with the sound of their own voice that they fail some simple tests of objectivity.

    You see, the fervour of a convert is rarely matched.

    To him the world consisted of ‘the Jews’ and ‘the Humans’. So Rathenau, a prominent and loyal German who discharged his duties with great industry, the ordinary citizen [who happened to be a Jew] and served in the German armed forces, the areligious who inherited jewish ancestry, the cosmopolitans who preferred globalism and paid scant attention to their jewish culture, were summarily grouped for vilification as ‘Jews’ with non-citizens, communists and socialists, some of whom [a small proportion] also happened to be jewish. Weizmann was a British subject, Jabotinsky was Russian, and owed not a whit of allegiance to Germany; zionist-socialist to the man, their objective was to create Israel: an outcome that would hurt Germany not at all.

    So what are we complaining about and what leads some commenters to make statements rather similar in nature to Freedman’s ['The Jews slithered into positions of influence in the U.S....." etc. etc] if not driven by pure anti-semitism? Did you see me [or any other jewish commenter] claim for example that ‘Italians plotted and killed, on their way to cornering the extortion, gambling and prostitution trades in these United States’ did you? for that would be a falsehood wouldn’t it?

    Your point regarding the suffering of German civilians, I recognise. The naval blockade was rather effective, one which the island nation had successfully applied throughout it’s military history. The Germans were attempting to do the very same with their U-boats; its just that they were far less successful!

    I think it was S2C who deposited that tripe from Ferguson, making the counterfactual claim that had the British and Americans “allowed” Germany to win, the outcome would have resembled an Europe similar to what we have in the EU today! Well Ferguson certainly reveals his preferences there, but I daresay had I lived then, I would have opted for His Majesty’s Government with English as lingua franca and not be subjected to compulsory sauerkraut for dinner! I am grateful that Ferguson’s choice did not obtain. Ferguson also points to the many successes of the German army. So why by the end of 1917 did the British not surrender? Perhaps it had to do with grit: “Sure I am of this, that you have only to endure to conquer. You have only to persevere to save yourselves, and to save all those who rely upon you. You have only to go right on, and at the end of the road, be it short or long, victory and honour will be found.”

    1914-1917 was grueling. For all sides. Britain lost great numbers of it’s working-class lads, but the nobility and landed gentry suffered losses of its sons in equal measure. No side was in a position to deliver the coup de grace at all, whereupon the entry of the United States sealed the outcome. It was importantly, a psychological boost for the Allies, and the British and French fronts went on to capture more territory than the American front.

    Certainly American zionists were advocating for U.S. participation. So were many Americans of British ancestry, who wanted His Majesty’s army to prevail. Many German Americans were against America’s entry. Such is democracy. In what qualitative way were entreaties of Americans of jewish extraction any different, underhanded or vile?!!

    You complain about the harsh terms imposed on Germany at Versailles, and the treatment of Germans after the armistice. The armistice led only to a cessation of armed conflict but the state of war, not; precisely to make the German leadership see their way clear to accepting the terms offered by the Allies at Versailles! Germany would have done the very same had they won, completely in keeping with the traditions of the victorious in the conflicts of the great powers. In fact when Russia surrendered to Germany, Austria-Hungary and Turkey at Brest-Litovsk in March 1918, the historian Spencer Tucker said, “The German General Staff had formulated extraordinarily harsh terms that shocked even the German negotiator.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Brest-Litovsk#cite_note-2

    So what are we complaining about again?

    Let us not call Germany ‘noble’ or any such thing. Their covetousness was no less than any of the other colonial powers. And Hitler a saint who meant the Jews no harm? No, no agreement there! [A subject for another day]

    On the context of today’s influence of the Lobby, I am in agreement with you. This goes far beyond the conduct and interests of healthy democracies; but that is a subject that we have discussed much in Dr. Giraldi’s previous articles.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  232. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    In essence, you wrote: People who state facts or express views with which I disagree is an attempt to interfere with my right to my opinions.

    No, in essence what I wrote is that there is a foreign government that employs and trains propagandists to flood our society with misinformation and actively seeks to distort facts and silence any dissent with threats, false accusations, and also uses the tactics of actively spreading anti-Semitism. I’m fine with people expressing whatever their views are as long as it is truly THEIR OWN views. When an agenda is being carried out by agents of a foreign government who state false facts or express views with which they don’t even believe themselves, like the Hasbara agents who spread anti-Semitism. THAT’S what I am NOT fine with and what we should be aware of and on guard against. Here’s an article on exactly this method of Hasbara spreading Hate to subvert and poison the well of free speech:

    http://www.commondreams.org/hambaconeggs

    Free speech aims at getting the facts right; getting all the facts on the table, and framing perspectives in a way that comports with what achieves the greatest good for the most people

    Yes and Hasbara aims at confusing the facts, removing all the facts from the table, and framing the perspectives in a way that comports with what achieves the greatest good for Israel, NOT for America. What you have said would be true IF it were taking place in a vacuum, but this is NOT taking place in a vacuum. There is an all out war being waged on our freedom of speech by Hasbara and the Israel lobby. A foreign government is employing and teaching an army of propagandists to subvert the facts. In Mr. Giraldi’s article “Israel Takes on the First Amendment” he states precisely how our Free Speech is being attacked and I’ve also posted below it a video which shows Hasbara openly admitting that “Israel is paying and training internet bloggers to delete, rewrite, and revise internet content to shape public opinion to Israel’s benefit” and that they go on sites like wikipedia to distort those facts(thanks to Ronald Thomas West for sharing it previously).

    http://www.unz.com/article/israel-takes-on-the-first-amendment/

  233. Rurik says:
    @Fran Macadam

    Never advocated genocide of anyone! Germans are some of my best friends!

    >>><<<

    "If history were more fair, Germany would now be a Jewish State and ethnic Germans would be the ones living in the condition of Palestinians…"

    Well Fran, what a “Jewish State” seems to mean, is a state where all the non-Jews have been either expelled or exterminated. In other words; genocided. And wishing for a people to suffer under the conditions of the Palestinians, is shocking in it’s sadistic cruelty and manifestation of raw ethnic hatred. Or so at least it seems to me.

  234. Rurik says:
    @Junior

    I think that the atmosphere that the Hasbara trolls are trying to create, with their tactics of being outrageously anti-Semitic to turn people off from seeking truth, gets everyone, that are trying to have rational discussions about Israel, on edge because their attacks are vile attacks on our freedom to express ideas.

    what sort of thing is it that gets anyone on edge? Nothing I’ve read here puts me on edge, that’s for sure. What attacks are you referring to that threaten our freedom to express ideas? So far since I’ve been here, I’ve felt free to express any idea that I want to.

    • Replies: @Junior
  235. Rurik says:
    @Sam Shama

    I make mild reference to some of your own sentiments, but more so the tag-effort with which S2C has hijacked(?) them, and nary a squeak of protest from you.

    It is difficult to separate wheat from chaff.

    Sam, if you want to respond to SC’s sentiments, then please do so. What is it that I should be protesting? What he says? Does he now somehow speak for me?

    Freedman’s position [which I am glad to see you agree with my label of it as a screed] is not not atypical of virulent anti-semites,

    he’s Jewish [rip]. Was he a self-hating Jew in your opinion?

    You see, the fervour of a convert is rarely matched.

    so he was a self-hating Jew?

    So Rathenau, a prominent and loyal German who discharged his duties with great industry, the ordinary citizen [who happened to be a Jew] and served in the German armed forces,

    During World War I, Rathenau held senior posts in the Raw Materials Department of the War Ministry and became chairman of AEG upon his father’s death in 1915.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walther_Rathenau

    In 1921, Rathenau was appointed Minister of Reconstruction, and, in 1922 he became Foreign Minister. His insistence that Germany should fulfill its obligations under the Treaty of Versailles …

    He also had ties to the genocidal Bolsheviks. Sounds like a real POS to me

    So what are we complaining about and what leads some commenters to make statements rather similar in nature to Freedman’s [‘The Jews slithered into positions of influence in the U.S…..” etc. etc] if not driven by pure anti-semitism?

    Sam, while repudiating the expression ‘slithered’ as inaccurate and inflammatory, would you care to contradict the oft expressed criticism that Jews are overrepresented in the halls of power in the US? Isn’t it because of that overrepresentation that the ravages of uber-Zionism are lamented here by yourself and so many others? Was it a blood libel when Senator Fulbright clamed in back in the sixties that Jews control the US Senate? Are all the claims of Jewish overrepresentation of power in the US the delusions of rabid anti-Semites?

    The armistice led only to a cessation of armed conflict but the state of war, not; precisely to make the German leadership see their way clear to accepting the terms offered by the Allies at Versailles!

    we must disagree

    you completely ignore the betrayal of the Fourteen Points and how Germany only disarmed when they were convinced that they’d be treated honorably. Then the ignoble and treacherous Treaty of Versailles that they had to be starved into signing.

    So what are we complaining about again?

    that all of the treachery and evil and horrors of the World Wars and all the mindless slaughter and suffering are being visited on humanity in this century just as with the last, and by the same bankers and Zionists and assorted apologists.

    Let us not call Germany ‘noble’ or any such thing. Their covetousness was no less than any of the other colonial powers. And Hitler a saint who meant the Jews no harm? No, no agreement there! [A subject for another day]

    On the context of today’s influence of the Lobby, I am in agreement with you. This goes far beyond the conduct and interests of healthy democracies; but that is a subject that we have discussed much in Dr. Giraldi’s previous articles.

    the betrayal of Germany and the rise of Hitler and the “influence of the Lobby” are all very much related

    you can’t divorce the history of these issues. They are intertwined, as your mentioning them in such close proximity suggests

    • Replies: @another fred
    , @Sam Shama
  236. @Rurik

    But to hate white folks (and Germans in particular) is par for the course.

    A lot of that comes from an innate human* conception of agency, i.e. if something happened, something caused it, connected to a romantic belief that life is supposed to be “good”. Without a Satan on whom to place blame for the ills of the world, people just look around to find someone who seems to be in control and therefore the “agent” of all those ills.

    For some folks here that is the Jews, for others Whites, and for still others, blacks. For the Muslims, especially Shiites, the US becomes “The Great Satan”.

    People have a hard time wrapping their heads around the idea that evolution is a painful, profligate process.

    * There is evidence that some other animals have a rudimentary sense of agency, which is logical if one believes that evolution is real.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  237. @Rurik

    that all of the treachery and evil and horrors of the World Wars and all the mindless slaughter and suffering are being visited on humanity in this century just as with the last, and by the same bankers and Zionists and assorted apologists.

    There is a very informative book entitled “War Before Civilization” by Lawrence Keely, an archaeologist. It documents that man has been busy creating “horrors” for a long time. The argument that suddenly “bankers and Zionists” are the cause for the last two centuries defies logic.

    http://www.amazon.com/War-Before-Civilization-Peaceful-Savage/dp/0195119126

    I really think you would find it interesting.

    • Replies: @Art
  238. Art says:
    @another fred

    The argument that suddenly “bankers and Zionists” are the cause for the last two centuries defies logic.

    Today one has to have their head in the sand, to not see the negative culture killing power of the Jew tribe.

    To not see the role of Jew bankers in WWI and the starting of WWII, and not see the role the Jew played in commie Russia, and to not see the disastrous role of Israel in the ME – is an intellectual crime.

    Sorry but — Truth Matters.

    • Replies: @another fred
  239. Rurik says:
    @another fred

    Hello Fred, thanks for your reply

    the “agent” of all those ills.

    For some folks here that is the Jews, for others Whites, and for still others, blacks. For the Muslims, especially Shiites, the US becomes “The Great Satan”.

    People have a hard time wrapping their heads around the idea that evolution is a painful, profligate process.

    I know what you mean about how some people are scape goated and there is an all too human proclivity to fall for that trap

    however, there certainly are times when that ‘agency’ of suffering can be and often is another human or rival human tribe

    just ask the Native Americans if the Europeans had anything to do with their fate, well, I guess if you could, since they’re mostly all gone now

    you could I guess, put down the fate of the Neanderthal vs. Cro-Magnons to nature, red in tooth and claw, and forgo any judgment calls, but then I suspect that the last Neanderthal might not have been so academic about it.

    Surly the blacks (and other slaves like the Irish) of the Americas suffered through the callousness and greed of the Anglo and other European slave owners. Just as the white French suffered through the agency brought to them by the revolutionary blacks in Haiti.

    Christians Albanians genocided by Turks, Jews persecuted by Nazis, Kulaks starved en masse by Bolsheviks.. there have been their share of identifiable tribal aggressions and turpitudes.

    As for what gets talked about at the site and oft-lamented, is what some people consider unfair slurs upon the Jews. I would posit that Jews have been and continue to be scape-goated for problems that they were not responsible for. The killing of Christ is a glaring example. But could any honest person condemn the Palestinians for having a resentment towards the Jews living in their houses? Shooting their children?

    we should, I would suggest resist making the case with too much simplicity in either direction. Either in painting guilt with too wide a brush, or by brushing off real culpability when it’s there.

    • Agree: Sam Shama
  240. @Art

    There is a difference between having a role and bearing the responsibility. To quote Garret Hardin (again):

    We are all the descendants of thieves,…

    • Replies: @geokat62
  241. geokat62 says:
    @another fred

    There is a difference between having a role and bearing the responsibility.

    What if the role you’re playing has primary responsibility for what’s transpiring in the ME… and its attendant consequences, such as the mass influx of refugees into Europe?

  242. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @Rurik

    what sort of thing is it that gets anyone on edge? Nothing I’ve read here puts me on edge, that’s for sure.

    I would say that your PERCEPTION of being called an anti-Semite and your defense of it, are prime examples of people being put on edge. And I would further say that Fran’s post to Sam was a message to be alert for Hasbara Trolls with an agenda that pretend to be what they are not so it is useless to engage in discussion with them. This atmosphere that the Hasbara Trolls create causes a domino effect of people to be alert and suspicious, causes accusations(whether correct or not), and makes people not want to discuss ideas because they don’t know if they are wasting their time with someone with an agenda. Whether you know it or not, the Hasbara Troll’s domino effect has you on edge.

    What attacks are you referring to that threaten our freedom to express ideas? So far since I’ve been here, I’ve felt free to express any idea that I want to.

    The attacks that I’m referring to are the attacks by the Hasbara Trolls who flood comments sections with fake anti-Semitism to try to link criticism of Israel with anti-Semitism. Yes, you are free to express any idea that you want… for now. They are trying to blur the lines of what is anti-Semitic and what is not. Their aim is to outlaw any criticism of Israel by trying to change public perception into believing the false notion that all criticism of Israel is anti-Semitism. They want the same atmosphere as there is in Germany, as is shown by RobinG’s article that she posted about a German Grandmother being locked up for expressing an idea(right or wrong), to be in America. If they succeed in fooling the public into believing that criticism of Israel is Hate Speech then laws may be passed and you will no longer be able to criticize Israel. Hence, it is an attack on our Freedom of Speech and the freedom to express ideas.

  243. Rurik says:

    OK Jr, nicely stated

    my thoughts are that one, as far as Hasbara Trolls are concerned, the only one I’ve seen here that I’d describe as a (prolific) troll is/was the Wizard of Ox [that was deliberate]. There are some here who’re very critical of Jews like Prissy, but I’m entertained by many of his posts. And there are rabid uber-Zionists like the always pleasant ‘general’ Sherman. And then there are just silly fools that spam the place with poopy talk, but that’s at all forums of this kind.

    I usually don’t like to get into personalities on these forums, as I consider gossipy stuff kind of a distraction, but then when people are suggesting, however obliquely that one is an anti-Semite for telling the truth, then as you say, it riles somewhat. I’m not sure about being on edge, but getting riled, oh yea. I’m all about that ; )

    a couple of things. When I first came here, I was accused by one or two of the more prolific posters of trying to shut the place down. I considered that bizarre. And then I have even been called a Hasbara Troll myself! by Ronal Thomas West of all people, but then I don’t think he was serious, just perhaps a little riled himself. ; )

    But this is all a lot of fun. I love bouncing ideas off of well-informed people and finding out when and if I’m in error somehow. I love getting at the truth of things like MH17 and the Syrian debacle, historical anomalies and events of critical importance in the world, like any escalation that may happen in Syria between the different players. I fear a new 911 might be in the works (by the usual suspects) and believe that the more people who’re expecting them to do it, the more people will be prepared to expose the treachery. Like the way they tried to pawn off those fake pictures of the ‘killed’ Osama, only to have them shoved back in their lying faces. All of that is good fun and also of importance today.

    BTW, when I saw the story of the elegant, frail old German women being tossed into prison (for saying things that must be true, or they wouldn’t care), I declared to another group of friends and even some relatives that I am now, as of that moment, a proud and open “Holocaust denier”!

    If it requires force and threats and prison time to keep a handle on the “truth”, then it isn’t the truth.

    Anyways, thanks for taking the time Jr,

    cheers

    • Replies: @Junior
  244. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @Rurik

    There are some here who’re very critical of Jews like Prissy, but I’m entertained by many of his posts.

    I DEFINITELY also am a fan of having fun, laughing, and discussing ideas. The Hasbara Trolls that fake vile hate-posts, like Priss, may be entertaining because of how idiotically funny they are, but their post’s goal is NOT to be entertaining. Much in the same way that it’s funny to watch a dog ridiculously trying to hump a pillow, it’s all fun and games until you realize that the pillow that the dog is trying to screw is YOUR pillow and that it’s where YOU have to lay YOUR head at night.

    The dog may be funny in its antics, but its intent is to screw and that is EXACTLY what it is doing to the place where you rest your head and to the thing that helps you to rest easy at night. Hasbara Trolls may be entertaining in the stupidity that they post, but their intent is to screw and that is EXACTLY what they are doing to the place where we rest our heads, America, and to the thing that helps us to rest easy at night, our rights.

    On a lighter note, hope you enjoy the video! Are you not entertained?! :)

    • Replies: @Rurik
  245. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:

    I was at another website and I could not believe that this advertisement popped up on my screen. So now it appears that they are not only recruiting for Hasbara Trolls, but also for Hasbara Lawyers as well. It’s an ad for a seminar that’s coming up for Israel Activist Lawyers to, quote “Use your legal skills to defend Israel.” Topics of the seminar include: “Learn to Combat BDS and Other Anti-Semitic Movements” and “Prepare to Defend Israeli Soldiers Against War Crimes Complaints”.

    http://btglobalmedia.co.il/sdin/2015/10/?website=audience

    I went to the website for the group running it, Shurat HaDin Israel Law Center, to find out more about them and I found these quotes from their website:

    Unable to defeat the IDF militarily or weaken the population through persistent terrorism, extremist groups and rogue regimes have embarked upon a global campaign to demonize and isolate Israel, casting it as a pariah state in the United Nations, as well as academic institutions.

    Shurat HaDin is leading the fight against those calling for boycotts and sanctions against the Jewish state, and those engaged in the perilous international campaign to delegitimize the Jewish State and challenge its right to exist.

    Instead of waiting for another attack, Shurat HaDin takes the battle to Israel’s decriers themselves. Utilizing cutting edge litigation, in which there are frequently no applicable precedents, Shurat HaDin is using ingenuity to apply domestic and international law to fight current and potential threats:

    Monitoring the rampant anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism in academic institutions by informing the school of its potential civil and criminal liability for tolerating an environment of intimidation and hostility that fails to protect Jewish and Israeli students from anti-Semitic harassment.

    http://israellawcenter.org/war-zones/fighting-bds/

    Hiding behind the BDS activists’ claim of assisting the Palestinian cause, lies racial discrimination and anti-Semitism. As the Anti-Defamation League has stated: “The BDS movement at its very core is anti-Semitic.” Economic, cultural and academic boycotts deliver no political message and in no way influence political policy.

    As an organization aimed at protecting human rights, Shurat HaDin is often notified by concerned individuals about a BDS campaign taking place in their home city. In such a case, Shurat HaDin will analyze the legality of the specific case according to local laws. If the BDS activity is found to be illegal, Shurat HaDin will dispatch a strongly worded warning letter to the campaign organizers and the institutions being targeted. The letter will advise the organizer that capitulating to the BDS movement and boycotting Israel and Israeli related businesses, academics and cultural persons is unlawful and the organizer may become the subject of civil, administrative and criminal legal action.

    If the organizers don’t heed the warning and cease their BDS activities, Shurat HaDin follows through by taking legal action.

    http://israellawcenter.org/war-zones/fighting-bds/bds/

    Sounds like they are going to have QUITE the seminar! Here’s a quote from a video that they attached on the bottom of one of the pages from Nitsana Darshan-Leitner, the founder of the Israeli Law Center:

    “You have to fight these organizations, these BDS organizations, with any tool that you have. It’s like a street fight. You have to use metal poles. You have to use car antennas. You have to use broken bottles. It’s like a street fight and you can not fight them with your hands tied behind your back. You should utilize legal actions. You can target each and every of these organizations and sue them or use legal action against them. And in the end of the day the goal is to bring them to halt their activity. Not because they cause financial damage to the state of Israel, because in the end of the day the damage is not so significant, is not the one that destroy the Jewish state. But the conception, the slogans that they use, the image that they want to reflect on the state of Israel that Israel is an apartheid state and this is why they deserve the sanctions and the boycott and divestments, and this is what you have to stop.”

    • Replies: @Junior
    , @geokat62
  246. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @Junior

    I didn’t realize that Shurat Hadin were the same group from the article in Mr. Giraldi’s piece in The Hill. I guess they’re recruiting with this seminar to prepare for the big push of flooding our courts with BS like they do to our internet. They gotta get together to figure out the best way, through the courts, to strip us of the right to criticize Israel. And it looks like they’re planning to use the TTIP Trade Deal to bypass US Courts with the Foreign Court/International Tribunals/Foreign Corporations that the TTIP trade deal will give precedence to over the US Court System. Things are not looking good for us if these trade deals are allowed to get passed.

  247. geokat62 says:
    @Junior

    Monitoring the rampant anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism in academic institutions …

    Notice the conflation of anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism?

    The letter will advise the organizer that capitulating to the BDS movement and boycotting Israel and Israeli related businesses, academics and cultural persons is unlawful and the organizer may become the subject of civil, administrative and criminal legal action.

    If boycotting Israel is unlawful, doesn’t this imply that the economic boycott of Germany in 1933 was also unlawful?

    Judea Declares War on Germany.

    http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/articles/jdecwar.html

    P.S. Leading members of the George W Bush administration along with Blair and the leading neocons/Israel firsters must be brought to justice for the crime of launching an aggressive war against Iraq. The names of the leading neocon/Israel firsters are:

    Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle, Douglas Feith, Lewis Scooter Libby, Michael Ledeen, The Kagan clan, including Victoria Nudelman, The Kristol clan, The Podhoretz clan, David and Meyrav Wurmser, Joe Lieberman, Chuck Schumer, Alan Dershowitz, John Hagee, Pat Robertson, Eternal World Television Network (EWTN), Elliot Abrams, Eliot A. Cohen, Eliot Engel, Charles Krauthammer, David Frum, John Bolton, Jennifer Rubin, Joshua Muravchik, Michael Rubin, Ed Royce, Daniel Pipes, Marc Grossman, James Woolsey, Michael Chertoff, Sheldon Adelson, Rudy Giuliani, Newt Gingrich.

    The names of the torture facilitators are:
    Bruce Jessen (psychologist, master torturer)
    James Mitchell (Jessen’s partner, torture implementer)
    Alberto Gonzales (Attorney General)
    Timothy Flanigan (deputy White House Counsel under Gonzales);
    John Yoo (Deputy Assistant U.S. Attorney General)
    John Rizzo (Acting General Counsel of the CIA)
    Jay Bybee (Yoo’s boss, signed the torture memo);
    Robert Delahunty (co-author of the torture memo);

    • Replies: @Junior
  248. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @geokat62

    Notice the conflation of anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism?

    Yeah, they DEFINITELY were conflating anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism ALL over their website. Another thing that I found really disturbing was how open and proud they were of their plan being to fight as dirty as possible and use all manner of deceitful tricks to use the courts to silence people. Disgusting.

    If boycotting Israel is unlawful, doesn’t this imply that the economic boycott of Germany in 1933 was also unlawful?

    Great point. I also liked the part where they said, “Economic, cultural and academic boycotts deliver no political message and in no way influence political policy.” Quite a statement, especially considering that the Founder says the exact opposite sentiment basically that BDS is a threat to influencing political policy in her video. Some people will say ANYTHING, no matter how nonsensical , to get their way.

    Thanks for the link to the Judea Declares War on Germany article. Great article for letting the truth be known! The only thing that I think would have made it better would be if the author had touched on the Balfour Declaration’s impact as well. It has always amazed me how true the words “History is written by the victors” truly are. Instead we get the claptrap that they brainwash us with on The “History” Channel 24 hours a day and 365 days a year.

    Leading members of the George W Bush administration along with Blair and the leading neocons/Israel firsters must be brought to justice for the crime of launching an aggressive war against Iraq.

    If this happens, we can be SURE who they are going to have defending them at the Prague. Shurat HaDin’s next seminar for recruits would add to their list of topics to be discussed: ““Prepare to Defend Israeli Soldiers and Our-Bought-and-Paid-For-Politicians Against War Crimes Complaints”.

    • Replies: @Junior
    , @SolontoCroesus
  249. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @Junior

    Meant to say, “defending them at the Hague.” Doh! :)

  250. @Junior

    Thanks for the link to the Judea Declares War on Germany article. Great article for letting the truth be known!

    It’s astonishing that you appear not to have been aware of the Jewish boycott of Germany (that persisted for over seven years, and had the stated intent of destroying Germany economically, just as US has used economic warfare to destroy Iraq, etc.).

    On the other hand, it is not astonishing that you were not aware of the Jewish boycott: US Holocaust Museum focuses on the ONE day boycott carried out by German government –

    http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005678

    BOYCOTT OF JEWISH BUSINESSES

    After the Nazis came to power in Germany on January 30, 1933, the Nazi leadership decided to stage an economic boycott against the Jews of Germany. , , ,

    On April 1, 1933, the Nazis carried out the first nationwide, planned action against Jews: a boycott targeting Jewish businesses and professionals. The boycott was both a reprisal and an act of revenge against Gruelpropaganda (atrocity stories) that German and foreign Jews, assisted by foreign journalists, were allegedly circulating in the international press to damage Nazi Germany’s reputation.

    On the day of the boycott, Storm Troopers (Sturmabteilung; SA) stood menacingly in front of Jewish-owned department stores and retail establishments, and the offices of professionals such as doctors and lawyers. The Star of David was painted in yellow and black across thousands of doors and windows, with accompanying antisemitic slogans. Signs were posted saying “Don’t Buy from Jews” and “The Jews Are Our Misfortune.” Throughout Germany, acts of violence against individual Jews and Jewish property occurred; the police intervened only rarely.

    Although the national boycott operation, organized by local Nazi party chiefs, lasted only one day and was ignored by many individual Germans who continued to shop in Jewish-owned stores, it marked the beginning of a nationwide campaign by the Nazi party against the entire German Jewish population.

    Notice that there is no mention of the International Jewish boycott declared in cities around the world, beginning a week before the German, one-day, retaliatory boycott.

    Holocaust education amplifies the USHMM model. Consider this lesson plan suggested for kindergarten children by a vendor of classroom aids called Kids Connect:

    https://kidskonnect.com/history/holocaust/
    Holocaust Facts
    Today, the Holocaust refers to the Nazi’s persecution and planned slaughter of the Jewish people. See the fact file below for more information and facts about the Holocaust.

    Kids Konnect

    The most fitting tribute we can pay the victims of the Holocaust is to NEVER let the world forget that it happened.
    On April 1, 1933, the Nazis began their action against German Jews by announcing a boycott of all Jewish-run businesses.
    • The Holocaust began in 1933, when Adolf Hitler came to power in Germany and ended in 1945, when the Nazis were defeated by the Allied powers.

    NO mention that International Jewry organized and carried out an economic war against Germany intended and designed to destroy Germany.

    NO mention that Polish and Russian Jews had streamed into Germany by the hundreds of thousands, bringing with them Communist infiltrators and overwhelming the already-fragile post-war and post-revolution economy, much like Syrian refugees fled their strife-torn homes for the safety of Germany.

    NO mention of a reality that Richard Breitman and Allen Lichtman reported in their book, “FDR and the Jews,” that “upon gaining power, NSDAP quelled violence against Jews . . . who were not attacked or sent to concentration camps until after November, 1938.”

    NO mention that by Feb. 14, 1933 Louis Brandeis had directed that “all Jews leave Germany.”

    NO mention that zionist agents were at work throughout central Europe and especially Germany to encourage Jews to leave, and to assist them in breaking the British blockade of Palestine.

    NO mention that German Jews acquiesced to the NSDAP regulations; that they resisted zionism; that they pleaded with US and other zionist organizations to cease the blockade and other provocations of the German government.

    • Replies: @Junior
  251. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Just before military police came into the Oval Office with leg irons and handcuffs to take the insane Israeli PM-war criminal off to a federal prison cell (along with his entire entourage), Obama should have told Nut-and-Yahu that, just for 9-11 alone (a terrorist operation now forensically proven to have been planned, executed, and covered up by Israelis and fifth column American Jews like Lauder, Silverstein, Eisenberg, Wolfowitz, Zakheim, et al.), we have decided to militarily ally ourselves with Russia and send to Israel a few very expensive tokens of our appreciation for its being “our greatest friend and ally” over the years. These tokens of appreciation would be multiple nuclear warheads dropped on all your stolen cities. It would be called the Obama plan for world peace and stopping all wars. Take Israel and its armies of Takfiri terrorists out of the international picture, and voila – global peace and prosperity. Want world peace? Kill the giant psycho elephant in the room. Or we could go the “peaceful way” and forbid all countries to send Israel any funds at all, and at the same time place a sea, land, and air embargo on the little terrorist country, expelling all the “jews” from Palestine, and giving the entire country back to the Palestinians. If America wants to be a “light unto the world” again, that’s what needs to be done. And if that sounds a bit harsh, one only has to remember that since 1920, through their viciously violent and criminal behavior, and racist attitudes toward the people of the Middle East, the “jews” have shown to the entire world that they do not deserve to live in Palestine, and that they need to leave the land, either as pieces of green glass or deportees. We, the people of planet earth will no longer tolerate this criminal state!

  252. Rurik says:
    @Junior

    Hey Jr,

    The Hasbara Trolls that fake vile hate-posts, like Priss, may be entertaining because of how idiotically funny they are, but their post’s goal is NOT to be entertaining.

    I’m assuming that what you’re suggesting he’s doing is frothing his venom of anti-Semitism so outrageously that he’s delegitimizing valid criticism of some of the more egregious forms of Zionism?

    If so, I don’t know about that. We all bring our own perspectives and styles, and although I’m sure there are some of these trolls of the type you’re talking about out there, I just don’t see that with the Priss.

    when he says something like ‘the Jews have their cock so far down Ann Coulter’s throat that when she criticizes open borders it’s like they just felt some teeth, and said whoa there! honey, careful with the teeth’

    I get it

    is it anti-Semitic to notice that Jews dominate and control Hollywood?

    that they own and control the Federal Reserve Bank?

    that they overwhelmingly own and control our media?

    that they’re vastly over-represented on the SCOTUS? Is it anti-Semitic to wonder out loud if that might not be a good thing for non-Jews? That Jews often have a tribal agenda that doesn’t always comport with what’s necessarily good for non-Jews?

    no?

    Now saying that, does that mean that if I notice that stuff or mention it, that it automatically means I’m either an anti-Semite or a troll?

    there do seem to be anti-Semites at this site. There seem to be trolls too. But I just don’t see Prissy as a Hasbara Jew in disguise, but of course I could be wrong.

  253. @Rurik

    Never complain Never explain.

    vs

    Matthew 26 : 26

    • Replies: @Rurik
  254. Sam Shama says:
    @Rurik

    is it anti-Semitic to notice that Jews dominate and control Hollywood?

    that they own and control the Federal Reserve Bank?

    that they overwhelmingly own and control our media?

    Not Anti-semitic on immediate observation, but very likely dubious assertions.

    On the Fed I have shown you, through actual analysis why what you say is false. However I hold no hope that any honest attempt to read or refute my observations will emerge.

    Nevertheless here it is one more time:

    http://www.unz.com/jderbyshire/storm-in-a-teacup/#comment-1149894

  255. Rurik says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    hmm

    I’m a conciliatory person by nature

  256. Rurik says:

    I did refute it all

    http://www.unz.com/jderbyshire/storm-in-a-teacup/#comment-11516403

    every bit of it, and can again so if you like

    why Sam must every chairman of the Federal Reserve Board always be someone of Jewish ethnicity? Jews are 3% or so of our population. Are there no gentiles smart enough to make decisions ab0ut interest rates or how many trillions of dollars to quantitatively ease into the economy (while making the [almost always Jewish] buddies at the investment banks like Goldman and Chase and Shiti and BOA and Wells Fargo or on Wall Street fantastically wealthy)?

    pretending like there’s no Jewish hand behind the schemes at the Fed and their incestuous relationship with Goldman Sachs and Chase and even the US Treasury is disingenuous Sam. And you know it. ; )

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  257. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    It’s astonishing that you appear not to have been aware of the Jewish boycott of Germany

    No, I knew about the Jewish Boycott but what I didn’t know about from the article posted by geokat62, was that there was a name, the Transfer Agreement, given to the collaboration of forced migration of German Jews to Israel. I think that article does a great job of going in depth into a certain part of the reasons for WW2. But, I feel that to fully understand why WW2 occurred, you must also include WW1. The way that I learned of the Jewish boycott of Germany was from listening to Benjamin Freedman’s 1961 speech in which he lays out the WHOLE picture of the Zionist plans in the World Wars. I’ve posted below a video with audio of Freedman’s speech for anyone that has never heard it. I hate the computerized voice introduction at the beginning of it, but it only lasts for the first 30 seconds and the rest is Freeman’s speech. A MUST hear for anyone that seeks truth by hearing BOTH sides of an argument instead of just the BS that they feed us on the “History” Channel about the reasons for the wars.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  258. @Junior

    apologies.
    did not intend to be patronizing/overbearing or in any other wise unpleasant, particularly with those who are trying to penetrate the propaganda and arrive at a more complete version of events, with integrity & objectivity & respect.

    Freedman’s 1961 speech is a good introduction to the process.

    When you look at a thing until it becomes strange, you have seen it for the first time.

    • Replies: @Junior
  259. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @Rurik

    I’m assuming that what you’re suggesting he’s doing is frothing his venom of anti-Semitism so outrageously that he’s delegitimizing valid criticism of some of the more egregious forms of Zionism?

    Yes, that is EXACTLY what he/she/it is doing. Actively practicing misdirection. Priss’s posts speak volumes to having an agenda. I act accordingly. We’ll just have to agree to disagree.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  260. Rurik says:
    @Junior

    You may of course indeed be right!

    I really don’t know. But if he’s a Jewish counterintell psyops act, he’s a pretty good one, no?

    • Agree: Junior
    • Disagree: Junior
    • Replies: @Junior
  261. Sam Shama says:
    @Rurik

    Sorry but that ‘refutation’ had nothing at all in the way of disputing or providing any evidence to contradict the breakdown of preferred share ownership, where the shares are owned by member banks and then, in turn, the ownership of the member banks’ shares [I gave the numbers and provided official links].

    That goes to the heart of the absurd accusation that ‘Jews own the Fed’.

    The other observation that Americans of Jewish faith have chaired the Fed for the past few decades is no different than noting that Christians have occupied the position of Commissioner of the NFL since the 1920s [or at least I think so ;-) ] or that Italians have occupied the Papacy at the Vatican more than any other ethnic group.

    You went on to fume about ‘counterfeiting machines at the Fed’, ‘Devaluation of the Dollar”, etc. but nothing that established a ‘jewish ownership of the Fed’, as the term ‘ownership’ is generally understood .

    I want to hear clear, logical, data driven arguments.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  262. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Freedman’s 1961 speech is a good introduction to the process.

    When you look at a thing until it becomes strange, you have seen it for the first time.

    I agree. Such a different perspective from the one that we’ve been brainwashed into unquestioningly believing. Freedman’s knowledge of the circumstances and the subject is truly eye-opening. My only problem with Freedman is that, at times, he conflates Zionism with Judaism. Perhaps he makes the mistake of referring to the religion instead of the political ideology, like he does occasionally in the speech, because he was a Zionist for so long.

    Greatest line, to me, in the whole Freedman speech:

    I don’t care whether you know all this or not. It doesn’t make any difference to me whether you know all these facts or not, but it does make a big difference to me. I’ve got, in my family, boys that will have to be in the next war, and I don’t want them to go and fight and die… like they died in Korea. Like they died in Japan. Like they’ve died all over the world. For what? To help crooks hold on to what they stole from innocent people who had been in peaceful possession of that land, those farms, those homes for hundreds and maybe thousands of years? Is that why the United States must go to war?

    Damn right! What truly matters right now is that this isn’t allowed to happen anymore for our loved one’s sakes. These words in the quote above are just as important today, if not more, as they were when he spoke them in 1961.

    Freedman told me there’d be days like these. Strange days indeed. Most peculiar.

    Another one of my favorite parts is Mr. Freedman’s solution of a way to try to fix the problem that I’ve quoted below:

    Now, I don’t blame Mr. Kennedy. I’m fond of Mr. Kennedy. I think he’s a great man. I think he can really pull us out of this trouble if we get the facts to him. And I believe he knows a great deal more than his appointments indicate he knows. He’s playing with the enemy. Like when you go fishing, you’ve got to play with the fish. Let ‘em out and pull ‘em in. Let ‘em out and pull ‘em in. But knowing Mr. Kennedy’s father, and how well informed he is on this whole subject, and how close Kennedy is to his father, I don’t think Mr. Kennedy is totally in the dark.

    But I do think that it is the duty of every mother, every loyal Christian , every person that regards the defense of this country as a sacred right, that they communicate — not with their congressman, not with their senator, but with President Kennedy. And tell him, “I do not think you should send my boy, or our boys, wearing the uniform of the United States of America, and under the flag that you see here, our red, white and blue, to fight there to help keep in the hands of these that which they have stolen”. I think everyone should not alone write once, but keep writing and get your friends to write.

    I think that Kennedy began doing this exact thing of starting to turn on the Zionists by stopping aid to Israel, making a move against the Fed to get control back of the money supply, and trying to stop the MIC money machine from crushing all in its path, and this is why he was killed. If what I think, about this being the reason that Kennedy was killed, is true, then I’m thinking that maybe Mr. Giraldi should change the name of this article to “What Obama Should Have Told Bibi… After Thoroughly Vetting His Secret Service Protection.”

    • Replies: @geokat62
  263. geokat62 says:
    @Junior

    I think that Kennedy began doing this exact thing of starting to turn on the Zionists by stopping aid to Israel… and this is why he was killed.

    This is the thesis of Final Judgment: The Missing Link, by Michael Collins Piper. He claimed that the Israeli Mossad was responsible for the assassination of JFK.

    Here’s a link to the book:

    http://americanfreepress.net/PDF/Final_Judgment.pdf

    • Replies: @Junior
  264. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @geokat62

    Thanks for the link to the book, geokat! I’m going to check it out, but from the looks of it from the length, it’s going to take a while to get through. I tried to find some reviews or summaries of it, for in the meantime, and found one by the author, Mr. Piper, in which he gives a summary of it that I’ve attached at the bottom of the comment.

    However, as we now know, not even Stone was faithful to his hero. Longtime independent JFK assassination investigator A. J. Weberman has since revealed that, during the 1970s-well after Garrison’s prosecution of Shaw-that Garrison was circulating the manuscript for a novel (never published) in which Garrison named Israel’s Mossad as the mastermind of the JFK assassination conspiracy.
    Garrison never said anything about this unusual thesis-at least publicly.

    I had not known that Garrison believed that the Mossad had involvement in it and it seems that Piper uses this as a major selling point of his book. For me at least, after reading the first couple pages of the book online, it’s what immediately intrigued me. From reading the article, it seems that he has no real proof of this assertion(whether true or not) and so it can cause the rest of his facts to be disregarded regardless of whether they are true or not. I know that for me at least, it is going to cause me to put more hesitancy than usual in believing any of his other facts while reading the book. I think he would have been far better off by just presenting Garrison’s work alongside his own thesis instead of claiming that Garrison believed the same if he can’t prove it(He says that Garrison never says it publicly and I tried looking up this unpublished Garrison book and found no proof of it). I don’t know whether he is using the Oliver-Stone-intentionally-left-this-out-of-the-movie angle as a selling point for attracting attention to his book(which seems to be the case), but it seems to me that he would have been better off just sticking to provable facts because it corrupts the truth. It’s a shame if the Garrison part can’t be proved because the Mossad’s complicity in the assassination is a VERY plausible connection that needs to be thoroughly investigated and revealed. I don’t doubt that Garrison probably believed this connection to be true but if this assertion can’t be proven… leave it out. This perceived marketing-trickery makes me question his veracity and intent.

    All that said, I’m definitely going to check out the rest of the book to see what he has to say though, because I think that his thesis is SPOT ON of Mossad complicity because of the geopolitical environment with Kennedy trying to stop Israel from getting Nukes, not drastically ramping up military intervention, and attacking the Fed at the time of his assassination. And the MOST telling reason being the actions that took place immediately following his death which reversed Kennedy’s course. Cui bono? ALL need to be investigated. Thanks again for the link to the book, geokat62!

    http://www.facts-are-facts.com/magazin/2-jfk.ihtml

    • Replies: @geokat62
  265. Rurik says:
    @Sam Shama

    Sam,

    providing any evidence to contradict the breakdown of preferred share ownership, where the shares are owned by member banks and then, in turn, the ownership of the member banks’ shares

    all nicely convoluted huh?

    but that’s not a problem, let’s just check out the latest audit of the Fed, and I’ll show you all of that, and who owns what, and where all that money goes, and .. and

    let me see.. I’m trying to find a link to that page with the results of that audit, but.. darn. It seems like I’m having a hard time

    perhaps there is no audit. And perhaps that’s why we don’t know who owns what or where all that money goes because they don’t want us to know. In fact prevent us from knowing.

    Ron Paul made it his career objective to pass a bill to audit the Fed, but to this day it’s never happened

    do you think that’s relevant? Should the American people know what the Fed is up to? Do you think I must be a conspiracy nut for being curious about such things?

    All we should do is just trust them when they tell us that when they loan out trillions of dollars of our money that we have to pay back with interest, that it’s all for our own good?

    The other observation that Americans of Jewish faith have chaired the Fed for the past few decades is no different than noting that Christians have occupied the position of Commissioner of the NFL

    really Sam ?

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  266. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @Rurik

    When I first came here, I was accused by one or two of the more prolific posters of trying to shut the place down. I considered that bizarre. And then I have even been called a Hasbara Troll myself!

    Also, when I first started posting here, I was told that I should electrocute myself and EXACTLY how to do it. But I don’t take it personally because I understand why people would react that way if they thought that someone was trying to subvert truth by using propaganda to do it. Truth and logic is the only way to counter such claims.

    Here’s a clip from one of my favorite comedians, Bill Hicks, and it’s what I think his response would be to these Hasbara Propagandists Trolls that use their subversive false marketing to further Israel’s interests above the good of the American People.

    And for geokat62, here’s a hilarious clip of Hicks talking about the JFK assassination coup, in keeping with our discussion in the earlier post.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  267. geokat62 says:
    @Junior

    … with Kennedy trying to stop Israel from getting Nukes, not drastically ramping up military intervention, and attacking the Fed at the time of his assassination.

    Cui bono?

    To this list must be added the DOJ efforts, under the Kennedy administration, to get the American Zionist Council registered as a foreign agent:

    10/31/1962
    Assistant Attorney General and Director of the Internal Security Division J. Walter Yeagley notifies Attorney General Robert F. Kennedy “…we are soliciting next week the registration of the American Zionist Council under the Foreign Agents Registration Act…You may be aware that the American Zionist Council is composed of representatives of the various Zionist organizations in the United States including the Zionist Organization of America.”

    http://www.israellobby.org/azcdoj/default.asp

    P.S. Leading members of the George W Bush administration along with Blair and the leading neocons/Israel firsters must be brought to justice for the crime of launching an aggressive war against Iraq. The names of the leading neocon/Israel firsters are:

    [MORE]

    Paul Wolfowitz
    Richard Perle
    Douglas Feith
    Lewis Scooter Libby
    Michael Ledeen
    The Kagan clan, incl. Victoria Nudelman
    The Kristol clan
    The Podhoretz clan
    David and Meyrav Wurmser
    Joe Lieberman
    Chuck Schumer
    Alan Dershowitz
    John Hagee
    Pat Robertson
    Eternal World Television Network (EWTN)
    Elliot Abrams
    Eliot A. Cohen
    Eliot Engel
    Charles Krauthammer
    David Frum
    John Bolton
    Jennifer Rubin
    Joshua Muravchik
    Michael Rubin
    Ed Royce
    Daniel Pipes
    Marc Grossman
    James Woolsey
    Michael Chertoff
    Sheldon Adelson
    Rudy Giuliani
    Newt Gingrich

    The names of the torture facilitators are:

    Bruce Jessen
    James Mitchell
    Alberto Gonzales
    Timothy Flanigan
    John Yoo
    John Rizzo
    Jay Bybee
    Robert Delahunty

    • Replies: @Junior
  268. Sam Shama says:
    @Rurik

    Yes really Rurik.

    Do you think there is a conspiracy, a global cabal, that has fixed the Papacy for Italians? Yes? I am waiting……

    On the subject of the ownership of the Fed, once again, evasion is your preferred strategy. In comment #239 of

    http://www.unz.com/jderbyshire/storm-in-a-teacup/#comment-1149894

    I actually gave you the relevant answers and breakdowns. Of course you unfailingly choose to obfuscate with youtube videos bereft of any evidence but bursting at the seams with rants. Not very helpful is it?

    At any rate I’ll post the following on the ownership issue:

    Who owns the Federal Reserve?

    The Federal Reserve System fulfills its public mission as an independent entity within government. It is not “owned” by anyone and is not a private, profit-making institution.

    As the nation’s central bank, the Federal Reserve derives its authority from the Congress of the United States. It is considered an independent central bank because its monetary policy decisions do not have to be approved by the President or anyone else in the executive or legislative branches of government, it does not receive funding appropriated by the Congress, and the terms of the members of the Board of Governors span multiple presidential and congressional terms.

    However, the Federal Reserve is subject to oversight by the Congress, which often reviews the Federal Reserve’s activities and can alter its responsibilities by statute. Therefore, the Federal Reserve can be more accurately described as “independent within the government” rather than “independent of government.”

    The 12 regional Federal Reserve Banks, which were established by the Congress as the operating arms of the nation’s central banking system, are organized similarly to private corporations–possibly leading to some confusion about “ownership.” For example, the Reserve Banks issue shares of stock to member banks. However, owning Reserve Bank stock is quite different from owning stock in a private company. The Reserve Banks are not operated for profit, and ownership of a certain amount of stock is, by law, a condition of membership in the System. The stock may not be sold, traded, or pledged as security for a loan; dividends are, by law, 6 percent per year.

    For the actual breakdown of bank member shares, anyone sincerely looking to get the answers will follow the link to my previous post I blockquoted above.

    Look, I understand when people are so deeply marinaded in a sauce they believe to be the genuine article, it is awfully disconcerting to read and discover that the sauce was prepared by a good man, an honest man, but one who unfortunately is badly confused about the matter. I speak of Paul the Elder of course.

    Anyway ‘Audit the Fed’ has its genesis in pure nuttiness, but currently it is a cynical attempt by halfwits in Congress to grab the power of monetary policy and turn it into a partisan political tool, exactly opposite in intent to the impartial nature of its operation.

    It will be vetoed, if it goes that far. The last thing that the U.S. needs is a banana republic monetary policy.

    • Replies: @geokat62
    , @Rurik
  269. geokat62 says:
    @Sam Shama

    The last thing that the U.S. needs is a banana republic monetary policy.

    Some might argue that it would actually complement its banana republic foreign policy.

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  270. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @geokat62

    To this list must be added the DOJ efforts, under the Kennedy administration, to get the American Zionist Council registered as a foreign agent

    Yeah, I DEFINITELY agree with your assessment that it should be included on the list after reading the sequence of events in that article. Another shocking part of the article which I did not know about, along with the implications of the Kennedy aspect, was learning how AIPAC got started and how they got around the law. Just like the con-men that they are, delay tactics and running a shell game until they conveniently didn’t have to worry about the Kennedy’s anymore.

    I had always wondered how AIPAC got started and how it was that they were allowed to so freely push a foreign government’s agenda. I guess that I always got distracted by a different topic before having the chance to look it up. DEFINITELY a critical part of the Just-what-the-hell-is-going-on-here Puzzle and, frankly, I’m disappointed in myself for never having taken the time to examine such a critical topic as how AIPAC began. Also ran into another interesting article on “The AZC, AIPAC, and FARA” after this one sparked me on a search for more info about AIPAC’s beginnings and I attached it below for anyone also interested in the topic. Great information and thanks again geokat62!

    http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2009/05/the-azc-aipac-and-fara.html

    Hey DOJ, where’s the money under? Pick a shell any shell. Is it under the AZC? Is it under the Jewish Agency? Is it under the AIPAC? Just kidding, it really doesn’t matter. We’ll just disgustingly break your FARA laws along with anyone who tries to enforce them anyway.

  271. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:

    “A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear. The traitor is the plague.” – Marcus Tullius Cicero

    • Replies: @geokat62
    , @Junior
  272. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:

    Just saw this article that came out today on a report from the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development(HUD) which says that we have more than a half-million Americans who are homeless… and that’s just the ones that they know about. OVER 500,000 HOMELESS AMERICANS. Meanwhile these lunatics in Washington are sending BILLIONS of dollars in aid to Israel?! WTF is going on here?!

    More than 500,000 people – a quarter of them children – were homeless in the United States this year amid scarce affordable housing across much of the nation, according to a study released on Thursday.

    Los Angeles, Seattle, Portland, Oregon and Hawaii have all recently declared emergencies over the rise of homelessness, and on Thursday Seattle’s mayor toured a new encampment for his city’s dispossessed.

    According to HUD’s latest tally, nearly 565,000 people were living on the streets in cars, in homeless shelters or in subsidized transitional housing during a one-night national survey in January. Nearly one-fourth were aged 18 or under.

    The actual U.S. homeless population is likely higher than HUD’s snapshot suggests because many people living without the means to put a roof over their heads are beyond the reach of the survey, sleeping on a friend’s couch or a relative’s basement.

    Meanwhile billions of dollars go to Israel in aid every year. BILLIONS.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/20/us-usa-homelessness-idUSKCN0T908720151120#18e8VovLPuI1jPwB.97

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  273. geokat62 says:
    @Junior

    I’ve posted this quote several times in previous comments. Glad to see you do the same.

  274. Sam Shama says:
    @geokat62

    True, and I was hoping you would respond thusly.lol.

  275. Sam Shama says:
    @Junior

    This is a travesty. Our politicians are the worst and the Lobby is ghoulish and amoral in its attitude towards bending these pols to their will.

    There are two paths to remedy this: internally by folks directly appealing to the unthinking membership and beyond that by electing a strong POTUS. Otherwise we are headed towards some variant of great social and political upheaval down the road (and most people cannot see that inevitability, as life gets in the way)

    • Replies: @Junior
  276. RobinG says:
    @Junior

    Disgusting, yes. But at least they are not letting him go to Israel.

  277. Rurik says: • Website
    @Junior

    Hey Jr,

    thanks for that!

    I love Hicks

    in the second one at 1:25 he screams just like Sam Kinison, another of the greats [RIP]

    • Replies: @Junior
  278. Rurik says:
    @Sam Shama

    The Reserve Banks are not operated for profit, and ownership of a certain amount of stock is, by law, a condition of membership in the System. The stock may not be sold, traded, or pledged as security for a loan; dividends are, by law, 6 percent per year.

    The Reserve Banks are not operated for profit

    that’s a good one

    can I buy some of this stock and get a guaranteed 6% return on my money?!

    turn it into a partisan political tool, exactly opposite in intent to the impartial nature of its operation.

    impartial

    I like that

    can you say ‘disingenuous’ Sam?

    the intent of the Fed was to protect the dollar, and they’ve done the opposite

    it’s owned and run by the world’s greediest men in the history of greedy men, and that’d be one thing. Let em get rich. What the hell. But it’s what they do with their ill-gotten lucre that is untenable. Wars and strife, and the corruption of our governments and everything else, for the amusement of bored, fat, mean-spirited old men

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  279. Sam Shama says:
    @Rurik

    - The Charter of the Fed has a dual mission: maintain price stability and foster maximal employment.

    - The dollar is the strongest currency in the world today. That “92% reduction in the dollar’s buying power since 1930″ is precisely the sort of nutty stuff that Paul the Elder engaged in. You could just as well ask yourself “What could one Roman sestertii buy today?”

    - Wars and strife are undesirable, but they are funded by Congressional deficit spending or taxation and war indemnity imposed on the losing side

    - bored, fat mean-spirited old men: yes there are many of those on Wall Street and the banks. In the Fed not so much. The Fed Chair gets a salary of $200k

    • Replies: @Rurik
  280. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @Sam Shama

    There are two paths to remedy this: internally by folks directly appealing to the unthinking membership and beyond that by electing a strong POTUS. Otherwise we are headed towards some variant of great social and political upheaval down the road (and most people cannot see that inevitability, as life gets in the way)

    I would add to the remedies, campaign finance reform and enforcing FARA. I, like you, am fearful that we are headed towards drastic upheavals if things are not changed soon. I sometimes worry whether the changes, like a strong POTUS and campaign finance reform, are too-little-too-late to stop the Globalist’s planned upheavals because our system is so corrupted and the Deep State’s power will not be affected by elections. The Globalist Elite and their assorted crony tools(like the Zionists) have this country on the brink of collapse with their policies of bankrupting wars, bankrupting trade deals, cultural Marxism, dumbing down of our schools and citizens, and the list goes on and on and on. I think that the most dire of the indications of just how close we are to the tipping point is our unbelievably soaring debt.

    Their aim is to destroy this nation and replace it with a Global Governance. They intend to do it by crashing the dollar which they hope will crash all the worlds economies because the Dollar is the world reserve currency. They need revolutions to break out all over the world at the same time because it’s the only way to get the people of the world to accept this Global Governance. They need world-wide economic collapse for world-wide revolution. They only have a limited amount of time to do it because the rest of the world see’s what Americans refuse to acknowledge, that the soaring debt can not go on much longer and the dollar is about to collapse. China and other assorted nations(BRICS) are trying to form a competing world reserve currency and so the hour is getting late on the Globalists plan for world revolution by collapsing the dollar.

    We are on the brink but, as my favorite Yogi said, it ain’t over ’til it’s over. And so, we must try to do everything that we can to stop them from accomplishing their mission while we still have the chance. The remedies of appealing to unthinking membership, electing a strong POTUS that stands up to them, fixing campaign finance reform, and enforcing FARA are DEFINITELY steps in the right direction. We gotta start somewhere. Throwing in the towel is NOT an option.

    [MORE]

    YOGI-ISMS FROM TRULY ONE OF THE GREATEST PHILOSOPHERS OF OUR TIME:

    “You can observe a lot by watching.”
    “Slump? I ain’t in no slump… I just ain’t hitting.”
    “It’s like deja-vu, all over again.”
    “You have to give 100 percent in the first half of the game. If that isn’t enough, in the second half, you have to give what is left.”
    “I just want to thank everyone who made this day necessary.”
    “We have deep depth.”
    “I always thought that record would stand until it was broken.”
    “Half the lies they tell about me aren’t true.”
    “If you come to a fork in the road, take it.”
    “If the world was perfect, it wouldn’t be.”
    “The other teams could make trouble for us if they win.”
    “If you don’t know where you are going, you might wind up someplace else.”
    “We made too many wrong mistakes.”
    “Little League baseball is a very good thing because it keeps the parents off the streets.”
    “You’ve got to be very careful if you don’t know where you are going, because you might not get there.”
    “I wish I had an answer to that because I’m tired of answering that question.”
    “You better cut the pizza in four pieces because I’m not hungry enough to eat six.”
    “The future ain’t what it used to be.”
    “The towels were so thick there I could hardly close my suitcase.”
    “There are some people who, if they don’t already know, you can’t tell ‘em.”
    “Even Napoleon had his Watergate.”
    “It was impossible to get a conversation going, everybody was talking too much.”
    “Nobody goes there anymore. It’s too crowded.”
    “It’s tough to make predictions, especially about the future.”
    “We’re lost, but we’re making good time”
    “Always go to other people’s funerals, otherwise they won’t come to yours.”

    – Yogi Berra (1925 – 2015) RIP

  281. Rurik says:
    @Sam Shama

    - The dollar is the strongest currency in the world today.

    only because all of the rest of them are manipulated too.

    That “92% reduction in the dollar’s buying power since 1930″ is precisely the sort of nutty stuff that Paul the Elder engaged in. You could just as well ask yourself “What could one Roman sestertii buy today?”

    Paul the elder is a great man, and America’s, if not the entire West’s, only true statesman.

    We’re not talking about Rome, we’re talking about Amerika- and the dollar; the value of which is a tiny fraction of what it was when the Fed was chartered. In the day, even a penny was worth something. Jesus, just in my own lifetime I seen a gallon of gas go from 20 cents to ten times that much. My dad said when he was young a movie on Saturday night was a nickel a ticket. When I was a lad, my dad used to make less than 3k per year, and we did fine, even if we were frugal, as my parents being from the (Fed caused) depression era usually were.

    And if that Roman sestertii was made out of silver, it could buy you a decent lunch at an average restaurant. A dollar? not so much.

    - bored, fat mean-spirited old men: yes there are many of those on Wall Street and the banks. In the Fed not so much. The Fed Chair gets a salary of $200k

    yea, that poor guy

    and then wasn’t it Timmy Geithner who was president of the NY Fed who forgot to pay his taxes? And then goes on to become secretary of the Treasury?

    From Goldman Sachs to the Federal Reserve Bank to the US Treasury, these boyz are all in cahoots to loot the nation dry, and that’s exactly what they’ve been doing. To the tune of trillions of dollars while they gorge their buddies on Wall Street and the big banks with massive quantities of ‘printed’ lucre. All with the quiet acquiescence of a corrupted and complicit congress and media. And assorted Internet forum apologists ; )

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  282. Rurik says:

    The Globalist Elite and their assorted crony tools(like the Zionists) have this country on the brink of collapse with their policies of bankrupting wars, bankrupting trade deals, cultural Marxism, dumbing down of our schools and citizens, and the list goes on and on and on.

    yep

    there are many people who believe that the ‘man’ behind the “Global Elite” curtain is the Rothschild cabal. When it turned out that those Jewish oligarchs who looted Russia during Yeltsin’s drunken fiasco were indeed Rothschild stooges, that drove that perception in even deeper. As in ‘deep state’ puppet masters, only their reach is global, like what all those octopus cartoons of the financial domination of the planet are referring to

    I’m curious Jr. if any of these cartoons seem to you to be anti-Semitic. Do they blur the lines between anti-Zionism and anti-Jew, to your mind?

    I’m not saying there’s no distinction, because there is. But sometimes it’s hard to tell. Consider for instance the boyz at ADL. Would you describe them as advocates for Jewish interests or Zionist interests? If they demand that criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic by definition, what then are we to make of their mission in general?

    • Replies: @Junior
  283. Sam Shama says:
    @Rurik

    And assorted Internet forum apologists ; )

    Ok I suppose I should say ‘ouch’?

    No.

    It is really, really tempting to associate the Fed with the thievery of banks. However, from where I sit, I can blame the Fed (and it is a serious charge) for failing to supervise the banks effectively. One day you might realise that the Fed is the only game in town that prevents the U.S. economy to sink into a semi-permanent recession, while the Congress is busy crafting the reverse.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  284. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @Rurik

    I’m curious Jr. if any of these cartoons seem to you to be anti-Semitic. Do they blur the lines between anti-Zionism and anti-Jew, to your mind?

    I think that cartoons that anthropomorphize, giving human characteristics to animals like the fourth one that you posted in which a face is given to the octopus, is a mistake. It dehumanizes and can be construed as being anti-Semitic because they use stereotypes in the characteristics to express identity. The fourth one is the only one that does this, but I have no issues with the other ones that you posted.

    Consider for instance the boyz at ADL. Would you describe them as advocates for Jewish interests or Zionist interests? If they demand that criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic by definition, what then are we to make of their mission in general?

    Yep. Their whole mission is to blur the lines. They do it by defending against legitimate anti-Semitism to convince people that they are a legitimate organization and then try to sneak in criticism of Israel as being anti-Semitic while hiding behind their actual anti-Semitic cases. I think that defending against actual anti-Semitism is good, but it’s just a tool that the ADL uses. It’s more of a by-product for them and not their intended goal. IF they made the distinction, I wouldn’t have a problem with them and would even say that they are a good thing. But they do not. Their main objective is to smear and confuse.

    From your earlier post:

    I declared to another group of friends and even some relatives that I am now, as of that moment, a proud and open “Holocaust denier”!

    It can NOT be denied that Jews were persecuted and that mass killings of them occurred. I think that unless your intention is to deny that absolutely NONE of this occurred, it is a huge mistake to paint yourself as such with such an absolute statement. If there is a certain aspect to it that you contest, I think you should specify exactly what it is that you are denying or risk not being taken seriously by denying such an obvious truth as the fact of persecution and massacres of Jewish people having taken place. For me, the only question is of scale, but any number of innocents that are killed that is above the number zero is an absolute tragedy in my eyes and should be treated as such. It is a tragedy but it has NOTHING to do with whether or not the US should support an apartheid regime like Israel unless it is used as a comparison for a tragedy that is being carried out today by Israel and a reason not to support them because they are persecuting and massacring Palestinians.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  285. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @Rurik

    Yeah, I agree that Hicks’ observations and humor are great. But just to be clear in regards to that clip, I COMPLETELY disagree with Hicks’ extremist sentiment that they should kill themselves, but I agree with his sentiment of questioning how they can live with themselves and how they are able to sleep at night.

  286. Rurik says:
    @Sam Shama

    I can blame the Fed (and it is a serious charge) for failing to supervise the banks effectively

    well, at least we’re making progress..

    I was just reading an article on the populous popularity of Trump

    here’s a snippet

    The number of Americans not in the labor force, on food stamps or permanent disability have all reached historic highs. Concerns over income inequality have increased as the Federal Reserve has pumped trillions of dollars of stimulus into Wall Street and the financial markets.

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/11/20/majority-americans-feel-like-stranger-country/

    now keep in mind that it’s also a stated purpose of the Fed to keep employment high

    and what do they do instead? they pump trillions (with a T!) in to the greed fest of Wall Street banksters as the .001% gorge on the lucre while Main Street America burns to the ground.

    I bet all the boyz at the Fed are banking on the TPP passing so Goldman Sachs can rake up on the misery of the unemployed working class American

    the angst of the millennials who can’t pay back their student loans all the way to the shop foreman who has lost his job to outsourcing to the returning vets who’re offing it in record numbers.. being an apologist for the one institution that more than any other is ground zero for all of the chicanery and skullduggery of the .01% must feel a least a little bit seedy, no?

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  287. Rurik says:
    @Junior

    Hey Jr,

    face is given to the octopus, is a mistake. It dehumanizes and can be construed as being anti-Semitic

    I agree

    I think that defending against actual anti-Semitism is good,

    Like ‘racism’, I’m not even sure what ‘anti-Semitism’ is. Hatred of Jews I suppose is the best definition, but then I’ve never met anyone who blindly hates Jews for being Jews. Never. I’ve never met or known of or read of any person anywhere who would want some harm to come to Jerry Springer or who hated Julia Louis-Dreyfus because they were Jews. Never. I’ve never met or heard of anyone who hated Jews simply for being Jews. Have you?

    However, I do know of many people that are bothered by and even hate some of the things that some Jews do. Like what’s being done in Palestine for instance. Or their choke hold on our government and media and how they use that choke hold to foist unpopular and even murderous policies on gentiles against their will. Stuff like that.

    And then if you complain that Jews have too much influence in the media or halls of congress- right away they’ll start screeching anti-Semite!!!!

    So there’s that ; )

    I am now, as of that moment, a proud and open “Holocaust denier”!

    It can NOT be denied that Jews were persecuted and that mass killings of them occurred.

    Ahh, but you see that’s not what a Holocaust denier is. A Holocaust denier can agree that every single thing that they say happened in the Holocaust happened, all of it, except for one detail. That’s all it takes Jr, just one detail and then it’s off to prison with you. If you’re a historian and have written books on WWII and that time period, and you say that according to your research, it wasn’t 6,000,000 million Jews that were gassed in Nazi gas chambers, but 5,999,999. BOOM. It’s off to prison with you. You see you’re not allowed to question any detail. They are all sacred and sanctified and sacrosanct and any deviation will result in the charge of “Holocaust denier!”. That’s how it works, in case you didn’t know.

    There was a semi-famous case that went to court where a historian was charged and found guilty of Holocaust denial. He agreed that Jews were persecuted and murdered and killed by the tens or died by the hundreds of thousands. But he said there was zero proof that Hitler ever ordered the genocidal destruction of Europe’s Jewry (which is true) or that gas chambers were used at Auschwitz for that purpose. (He went there and had some expert go there and they decided it was an impossibility. So they put him in prison for some years for saying it)

    So it’s become a kind of religion. Holocaustianity, where you’re not allowed to question or deviate from any of the official dogmas or catechisms, and it you do, even if you’re a frail and courtly old great-grandma, who never hurt a soul, and only told the truth as she saw it, they’ll crucify you. (at least figuratively)

    I find such a state of affairs untenable and laughable. I can say what ever I want to, and most of the time no one would give a rip. I could fill a pail with urine and put a crucifix in it and take a picture and I’d be a celebrity “artist”, wined and dined at the best places in Manhattan and London. But say that your dad was a WWII conscripted guard at Dachau and that he said they never gassed anyone there, let alone millions of Jews, and the German courts have even declared that the truth is no defense of the terrible and unforgivable crime of Holocaust Denial.

    It’s enough to make one laugh, were it not so pathetic.

    In so far as the Nazis or anyone else persecuted or harmed anyone because of their race or religion or other thing they had no control of, I condemn such things as obviously and morally indefensible. And I’m sure it happened during the terrible Nazi round up of Jews and homosexuals and Catholics and communists. But as for genuflecting to the narrative that they have infused in us all as little children that the Jews were innocent victims of evil gentiles and that we all have a guilty price to pay back, has worn off on me. It doesn’t work anymore.

    I wonder what Hicks would say..

    • Replies: @Junior
  288. Sam Shama says:
    @Rurik

    being an apologist for the one institution that more than any other is ground zero for all of the chicanery and skullduggery of the .01% must feel a least a little bit seedy, no?

    The holier-than -thou feeling that you are effused with, is a combination of ignorance and very likely a more than average endowment of self-righteous piffle that gets deposited in internet forums. I’ve met a few of you type, each outdoing the next in misbegotten social justice bravado, until of course, a bit of that lucre seems like a possibility.

    So save your preachy scat for others and understand the following: the day you muster enough courage to announce publicly your Holocaust denier status under your own name, and not that of some 9th century chieftain, consider your sturm und drang mostly a case of what the Phineans so effectively coined as ‘shite!’.

    • Replies: @RobinG
    , @Rurik
  289. RobinG says:
    @Sam Shama

    Bravo! (“more than average endowment of self-righteous piffle” — A candidate for narcissism quotient?)

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  290. Rurik says:
    @Sam Shama

    Sam, Sam, Sam..

    The holier-than -thou feeling that you are effused with, is a combination of ignorance and very likely a more than average endowment of self-righteous piffle that gets deposited in internet forums

    why the empty, vacuous ad homonyms?

    if I’m ignorant, then by all means point out what I said that was wrong!

    educate and edify us. That’s what these places are for. If my tone seems to you ‘holier-than -thou’, perhaps it’s because I get little to no resistance on the points I make, and it just seems to you that I’m coming across as with ‘bravado’. Eh?

    there again with the pejoratives like “Holocaust denier”. Why not address the substance of what I said above Sam? Are you afraid? Is it just easier to call me names and try to smear me than to engage in thoughtful debate.

    Perhaps some things, like religion are not debatable?

    Eppur si muove

  291. Rurik says:

    A candidate for narcissism quotient?)

    is that what you guys do?

    bounce around from thread to thread with oblique name calling when someone makes points that you can’t address or refute, you call them ‘holier-than -thou’, ‘self-righteous’ “narcissists” or ignorant faggots (like RTW is calling me)

    is that the level of Socratic debate and thoughtful conversation here? ~ ‘I don’t have an answer to that so you’re a dumb, poopy-head ignorant conceited faggot!’

    whatever ‘works’ I guess

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  292. Sam Shama says:
    @Rurik

    is that the level of Socratic debate and thoughtful conversation here? ~ ‘I don’t have an answer to that so you’re a dumb, poopy-head ignorant conceited faggot!’

    You might have just stumbled on to the latest category of oppressed to vie for political clout.

    ‘whatever works’ I guess indeed. Especially when you find yourself sniveling at the oppression inflicted on you by Torquemada.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  293. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @Rurik

    I’ve never met or heard of anyone who hated Jews simply for being Jews. Have you?

    My god. You have got to be kidding me. Are you honestly trying to tell me that you’ve never met anyone who hated someone that was different for NO reason other than the fact that they were different?! You’re just trying to get a rise out of me, Rurik. Well… obviously it worked ;)

    Ahh, but you see that’s not what a Holocaust denier is. A Holocaust denier can agree that every single thing that they say happened in the Holocaust happened, all of it, except for one detail. That’s all it takes Jr, just one detail and then it’s off to prison with you.

    It’s off to prison with you. You see you’re not allowed to question any detail. They are all sacred and sanctified and sacrosanct and any deviation will result in the charge of “Holocaust denier!”. That’s how it works, in case you didn’t know.

    In case you didn’t know, that’s NOT how it works in America. There are 14 countries in which “Holocaust Denial” is against the law and America isn’t one of them. I care not what these other countries do to their own free speech. I care about what America does and what we stand for. So, I don’t know where you are coming up with “any deviation will result in the charge of “Holocaust denier!”” If you think that it’s a false charge then why on earth would you go around declaring yourself one. It sounds to me like you are not only letting someone else define you with a charge but you are also allowing them to decide where the battleground is to take place. You are starting off the battle on lower ground because you have to begin by defending yourself. They automatically have the higher ground and YOU put them there by calling yourself an absurdity. To call yourself a Denier of the FACT that people were persecuted and massacred is not only idiotic because it is so obviously incorrect but, MUCH more importantly, it is an absolute affront to the innocent victims that lost their lives.

    Would you call yourself a Slavery-Denier if you thought that the actual number of slaves brought to America was less than what they say it is or because you think that some slave ship that they say was used didn’t have enough cargo room to hold as many slaves as they say it held? I hope you wouldn’t. If you called yourself such an extreme thing as a Slavery-Denier for these reasons, then people would look at you like your crazy and listen to you accordingly. You’re smarter than that, Rurik. You shouldn’t put yourself at such a disadvantage to be listened to, and should have much more respect for the innocent victims than that .

    If your aim is to try to seek truth but you feel that you absolutely MUST define yourself by the event(for what reason, I have no idea), then how about calling yourself a “Holocaust Truther” or something along those lines. In the same way that people DO NOT deny that 9/11 occurred but they DO seek the truth of exactly what happened. I think that Truther would be a more accurate portrayal of what I THINK your position is based on your posts… that is, of course, unless you would refer to yourself as a 9/11-Denier as well.

    • Replies: @RobinG
    , @Rurik
  294. RobinG says:
    @Junior

    “I care not what these other countries do”

    Wouldn’t have figured you for ….. that. But I’m starting to see the problem of your literal interpretation/understanding (of everything). “Holocaust Denier” is the label that Holocaust Religionists put on any anyone who questions the official story. They use the word ‘denial’ to give the false impression that ‘deniers’ are saying that nothing happened. I don’t classify myself as a Denier (as Paul Eisen does) but I don’t think people should go to jail for discussing history.
    Although Rurik is exaggerating ludicrously, that’s kind of the idea.

    http://www.righteousjews.org/article27a.html

    My Life as a Holocaust Denier
    By Paul Eisen
    January 2008

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    , @Junior
  295. Rurik says:
    @Sam Shama

    when you find yourself sniveling

    Rurik is not the sniveling type ; )

  296. Sam Shama says:
    @RobinG

    Hi Robin,
    The specific point that Jr., made, that in the USA there is no legal basis to charge anyone with “Holocaust Denialism” is a valid one. The situation in some European countries is different and that is regrettable from a free speech perspective. It irks me immensely when some on this board pound their chests with great pride announcing that they are “Holocaust Deniers”, implying [when taken as a whole with their miscellaneous other screeds against Jews] that this tragedy never occurred. For those who have a personal connection to it, these voices are idiotic, to say the least. I, for one, have always maintained that the Shoah serves – as do other genocides – as reminder for all humanity to be constantly on guard that such events are not repeated.

    So, discussions of the Shoah, its scale and alleged embellishments, possibly used by cynical groups, can be discussed in the appropriate forums [i.e: please don't clutter each and every topic with your pet lunacies]. It isn’t a pleasant topic for jewish individuals to see or hear, but free speech is to be defended. Once again, my attitude is that, just as Rurik and others have a costless opportunity to air their misbegotten views, it is equally available for others in a democracy to impose a cost on them, in argumentation and whatever else within the scope of the law.

    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @RobinG
  297. Rurik says:
    @Junior

    OK..

    Are you honestly trying to tell me that you’ve never met anyone who hated someone that was different for NO reason other than the fact that they were different?!

    Of course not Jr. To hate is a powerful emotion. Why would , or even- how could a person be motivated to hate another person simply for being different?

    Now they may be suspicious of a person for being a stranger or for being different and especially for being both, but to hate them for it? Naw, I just don’t see it.

    Imagine if someone had blue skin and were eight foot tall, can you imagine any human being that would hate them for it? Perhaps want to kill them? Even if they had three eyes and spoke in clicking noises, I suspect they’d be more a curiosity than the object of hate, don’t you?

    It’s not that people are different that make other people hate them. It’s usually what they do.

    as an example of an all out hate fest, let’s just consider the madness of WWI. The belligerents were hardly distinguishable from each other. But they were driven to murderous, blood splattering hate by a careful campaign of war propaganda. Here’s the opening scene from the movie Joyeux Noël. This is how you manufacture pure, raw hate..

    But even then, as the movie goes on to show, human reason and the better angels of human nature can often overcome even the most irrational hatreds.

    I’ll use another example. Palestine. In Palestine, among many others, you have two peoples who share a genetic identity. Sephardic Jews and Palestinian Arabs. They can both trace their genetic ancestors back to a shared and common DNA. They are the descendants of the tribe of Jesus Christ. Look at the children in this photo for instance, they could easily be Palestinian stone throwers but for an arbitrary twist of fate

    But they will be raised to hate (people who look exactly like them) like you wouldn’t believe. Cynically used by covetous and greedy old men and (sad to say) women as a future army to smite others whose land they covet.

    the hatred that comes from religions like the murderous hate between Sunni and Shiite Muslims is an irrational hatred foisted by the religious leaders so that young men will go slaughter other young men so that these religious leaders can swell their coffers.

    I don’t want to write a book, but anyways I hope I’m making a point here.

    [MORE]

    I don’t know where you are coming up with “any deviation will result in the charge of “Holocaust denier!””

    that’s the way it works Jr, even here in America.

    but I wasn’t talking about America when I said

    That’s all it takes Jr, just one detail and then it’s off to prison with you.

    I was talking specifically about some little old German lady who Germany put in prison for questioning some of the details of the holy Holocaust. It offends me somewhere very viscerally and deep. The idea that Germany allows rapists and assorted thugs to roam the streets while they clamp the irons on an 87 year old lady who’s never harmed a soul, but who said some things they don’t like. You want to talk about hate Jr? Well I hate that kind of thing. I hate any form of tyranny and abuse of power, and I especially hate tyranny over the mind of man (I think Jefferson said something similar)

    I hate the idea that there are thought police scanning our words for violations of accepted thoughts or words.

    Another great scene

    Maybe we aren’t hauled off in chains yet here in America, but if the spirit of freedom which- used to define America- still courses in the blood and veins of living Americans, then- when we see them hauling off little old ladies in Germany and France and Canada and elsewhere, for thought-crimes, then I would posit that it behooves us Americans to condemn such atrocities against freedom and it’s most cherished and precious expression, which is the freedom of speech.

    And that is why I say I’m a proud Holocaust denier, it is in solidarity with this graceful and brave lady. She has more integrity and nobility and honor in that frail little frame of hers than all the ADL thugs and pusillanimous politicians and sanctimonious screechers that might crawl out from every thought-police rock.

    I’m sort of over the thought police. They’re not guardians of polite discourse, but rather thugs who demand conformity to their narrative. Fuck em.

    You are starting off the battle on lower ground because you have to begin by defending yourself.

    Bring it on say I. Let’s roll!

    To call yourself a Denier of the FACT that people were persecuted and massacred is not only idiotic because it is so obviously incorrect but, MUCH more importantly, it is an absolute affront to the innocent victims that lost their lives.

    No Jr!

    that is the kneejerk, Pavlovian response narrative we’ve all been programmed to mindlessly and reflexively believe, like giving a kick when the doc hits right below our knee with the little hammer. Just as I’ve never met a person who hates someone for simply being different, I’ve never heard of a “Holocaust denier” who suggests that the Nazis never hurt a soul and only treated the Jews with tenderness and brotherly love. You see that’s how they’ve programmed us all. It’s the same as a religion. If you don’t believe that Jesus was God incarnate born of the virgin Mary to come and die for our sins = then you are an evil sinner and demonic person who deserves to spend all eternity in hell fires and boiling lava with pitch forks shoved up your ass.

    it’s the same thing with Holocaustianity

    either you accept and believe absolutely and entirely that exactly six million (and not one less!) Jews were gassed in homicidal gas chambers by evil Nazis who hated all Jews (and others who don’t really matter) only because the Jews were different and weren’t blonde haired, blue eyed Aryans and that they did so with a stated agenda of genociding all the Jews off the planet in a Satanic ‘final solution’ ~ or = you are denying that any Jews (or anyone else but they don’t matter) were harmed by the Nazis and that the Nazis were good and you agree with them and you hate all Jews and want to kill them all because you’re just sad that the Nazis didn’t finish the job

    that’s how it’s supposed to work Jr, but I reject their paradigms, both the Christianity one and the Holocaustianity one

    I demand a nuanced approach to both historical events. I demand to suggest that perhaps Mary wasn’t impregnated by God Himself, but that Jesus’ word’s and the way He lived His life were as close to what God could have been, especially the way He died. And that that is good enough for me. And I also demand the right to suggest that just possibly, not all Germans hated all Jews (for simply being different) and gleefully worked the camps and ran the gas chambers none stop in between making soap and lampshades out of them. I demand the right to look at all events, both historical and contemporary with an unjaundiced eye. If the veracity of the narrative holds up to scrutiny, then we will be closer to the truth. But if the earth is not the center of the universe, but rather circles around the sun, then no amount of torture or jail time or truncheons or phone calls made and people getting fired from jobs is going to change it. (sorry Sam)

    The reason I wouldn’t call myself a ‘Holocaust truther’ is because that implies someone who actively cares and seeks out the truth about the Holocaust. I don’t. I’ve never really cared that much about it. It just never really interested me. I was of course raised as we all were to be traumatized as a young child by the images and all of that and obviously feel terrible that people could be so cruel and callous to each other, but then that kind of behavior certainly isn’t limited to the Holocaust now is it? As an American I personally am much more reflective on the holocaust of the American Indian. And even there, it isn’t so much as a stain upon any particular hue of the specie’s skin, but rather I’m very saddened and disheartened by the fact that the Indians, for whatever you want to say about them, at least lived on this land for millenniums in relative harmony with the environment and always left it pristine for their progeny. Whereas look at what the white man is doing. It’s a momentous sin.

    Anyways, I get to rambling

    refer to yourself as a 9/11-Denier as well.

    yea, like ‘Global Warming Denier’

    they now use that pejorative ‘denier’ as their new scarlet letter of a heretic to whatever politically correct bullshit their trying to force down out collective throats at the moment

    tomorrow it will be Solomon’s forth temple denier’ for anyone who doesn’t doublethink properly about the Temple Mount when they dismantle that mosque and start building their precious building

    it’s nothing more than a trick to control your mind. Just like all religions.

  298. Rurik says:
    @Sam Shama

    “Holocaust Deniers”, implying [when taken as a whole with their miscellaneous other screeds against Jews] that this tragedy never occurred

    you’re a rotten liar Sam

    and I mean rotten in both in that the pathetic attempt at the lie and, even more so, that you are a rotten person for attempting it

    to impose a cost on them,

    I wonder if Sam really means it when he says

    The situation in some European countries is different and that is regrettable from a free speech perspective.

    something tells me Sam would be the first one to demand that that little old German lady be crucified for saying things Sam doesn’t want people to say.

    I think you’re the one on the right Sam

    what is worse, to show solidarity to a gentle old woman being imprisoned for her ideas

    or to tell vile and outrages lies about anyone with the temerity to show solidarity to her in a disgusting and transparent campaign of smears and demonization?

    everything I just said how your lot try to accuse people who question any detail of the Holocaust as suggesting that none of it happened is glaringly displayed for the world to see.

    have a doubt about some detail = HOLOCAUST DENIER who tries to say none of it ever happened!!!!

    bullshit

    you can’t crush the truth under a boot of smears and threats and jail time and rotten lies, no matter how rotten a person you might be ; )

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  299. Sam Shama says:
    @RobinG

    Haha. I missed this one previously. I think it would define the upper boundary of the Quotient.

  300. Sam Shama says:
    @Rurik

    Listen motormouth:

    what is worse, to show solidarity to a gentle old woman being imprisoned for her ideas

    you can spew your bile as much as you wish, and call me a liar or whatever, but in my books you are…well what you are. I care more about what happens in this country with regard to free speech and not take on the whole world as my cause. That I’ll leave to those who have too much time on their hands and sport a high Narcissism Quotient [mouths typically running faster than what the brain gears can accommodate].

    incidentally that ‘Gentle Grandmother’ has quite a history apparently. I was not aware of this case until you started releasing smoke from all you orifices.

    According to Agence France-Presse

    Haverbeck is a notorious extremist who was once chaired a far-right trainng center shut down in 2008 for spreading Nazi propaganda, according to AFP. She has a rap sheet and a suspended sentence for sedition.

    http://news.yahoo.com/holocaust-denying-nazi-grandma-gets-10-months-jail-102136724.html

    So perhaps the authorities had a few things in mind.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  301. Rurik says:
    @Sam Shama

    implying [when taken as a whole with their miscellaneous other screeds against Jews] that this tragedy never occurred

    that’s a disgusting lie and you know it so that makes you a liar doesn’t it?

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  302. Sam Shama says:
    @Rurik

    Well since in your mind I am a liar, let me say this: you are not a Nazi nor a Holocaust denier.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  303. RobinG says:
    @Sam Shama

    Sam, I agree with you, and I believe it has been a mistake (politically and ethically) for Paul Eisen and others to accept the label Holocaust Denier. The term is too incendiary, too absolute, and Eisen’s attempt to ridicule the all-or-nothing nature of the accusers is too arcane, so all too often misunderstood and misused.

    1. There may be people who actually deny that there was any Holocaust, like those who think the moon-landing was faked, (or they’re totally uneducated and dumb, or fried from drug use, and so believe one of these nuts). I don’t think Rurik is one of these.

    2. As far as I can tell, Eisen didn’t even question the Holocaust himself, but he commented on the censorship of others. For this, he was labeled a Denier, so he said, Right, if entertaining criticism of the Holocaust narrative is Denial, then I’m a Holocaust Denier. He must have thought he was making a clever intellectual statement, but since few have time or interest to parse out what he’s getting at, it’s counterproductive (IMO).

    3. About Paul Eisen: He did allude to the work of some pseudo-scientist and a US executioner who, IMO, made totally irrelevant comparisons. My reaction was (and am I being anti-Semitic for saying this?), good grief, Eisen’s Jewish, he should be too smart to fall for this garbage!

    4. Rurik is a slippery character. I haven’t read all his stuff, nor will I, (his method, especially when criticized, is to rant interminably to obscure his lack of real response) but I think he distinguishes between Jews and Zionists. I don’t support him on this, but I think he’s being foolish in the vein of Eisen.

    5. Jr. said he only cared about law in the US. Well, that’s his prerogative, but I think it’s worth noting what happens elsewhere: it might come here. Previously I posted about a trial in Canada, which featured a hateful little book called, “Germany Must Perish”. Since then, an article came out about the author, Theodore Kaufman. It seems that his is a strange and sad story that shows how ‘good’ intentions can go tragically awry, i.e. a Jewish pacifist used as Nazi propaganda.

    http://ericwalberg.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=585:from-zundel-to-topham-zionist-theatre&catid=39:europe-canada-and-us-&Itemid=92

    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @Sam Shama
  304. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @RobinG

    Sorry to preach to the choir since you say that your not a Denier, RobinG, but I feel that I should address the article by Paul Eisen that you posted… so excuse me while I break out my well worn soapbox :)

    “Holocaust Denier” is the label that Holocaust Religionists put on any anyone who questions the official story. They use the word ‘denial’ to give the false impression that ‘deniers’ are saying that nothing happened.

    Yes, I know the game that they are playing. It’s the same game they play of trying to make people think that Zionism and Judaism are the same thing, and that criticism of Israel and anti-Semitism are the same thing. As you said, “They use the word ‘denial’ to give the false impression that ‘deniers’ are saying that nothing happened.” Yes, that is because the word ‘denial’ MEANS that nothing happened. When someone declares themselves a Holocaust Denier unless they LITERALLY do not believe that there was a holocaust, they are bringing that false impression upon themselves. Why would anyone believe anything that someone says is truth if the person doesn’t even identify themselves with a true impression but instead uses absolutes and extremes that aren’t true like the word Denier?

    Literal is EXACTLY what you have to be with a solid foundation of saying exactly what you mean if you are trying to change peoples minds about something because the literal meaning is how they will interpret it. It is a battle for informing the uninformed mind, not for someone that already knows that there may be “nuances” or some reason(however misguided it is) for why a person calls themselves an absolute thing like Denier. The Eisen thinking of, “I’m not a Denier, but they called me a Denier, so I’m going to call myself a Denier to show them why they’re wrong about calling me a Denier because I’m not a Denier” is some of the most ass-backward circular reasoning that I’ve ever heard. It’s so logically fallacious that it’s insane. That Paul Eisen guy is leading people down the absolute wrong path. His plan, in the article, is one of the dumbest things that I’ve ever read. He’s sabotaging any chance that anyone that is foolish enough to take his advice, of calling themselves a Holocaust Denier but isn’t one, might have to bring about any change. Eisen is either a misguided fool or a saboteur. He’s essentially telling people to label themselves as extremists. Denial means Denial. Words have meaning. They try to make people believe that they don’t, but they do.

    I care not what these other countries do to their own free speech. I care about what America does and what we stand for.

    Wouldn’t have figured you for ….. that.

    I also agree that people shouldn’t go to jail for discussing history as you said. In regards to caring about other countries, your right, I didn’t follow my own advice above about choosing my words carefully for the proper meaning(I’m still a work in progress ;) ) I DO care but if the people of those countries choose not to stand up for their own rights then what am I to do about it? My concern is to try to clean up my own backyard and making sure that WE, Americans, don’t lose OUR free speech. To paraphrase one of my favorite speeches by John Quincy Adams which I’ve posted below: We should lead by example.

    [MORE]

    “AND NOW, FRIENDS AND COUNTRYMEN, if the wise and learned philosophers of the elder world, the first observers of nutation and aberration, the discoverers of maddening ether and invisible planets, the inventors of Congreve rockets and Shrapnel shells, should find their hearts disposed to enquire what has America done for the benefit of mankind?

    Let our answer be this: America, with the same voice which spoke herself into existence as a nation, proclaimed to mankind the inextinguishable rights of human nature, and the only lawful foundations of government. America, in the assembly of nations, since her admission among them, has invariably, though often fruitlessly, held forth to them the hand of honest friendship, of equal freedom, of generous reciprocity.

    She has uniformly spoken among them, though often to heedless and often to disdainful ears, the language of equal liberty, of equal justice, and of equal rights.

    She has, in the lapse of nearly half a century, without a single exception, respected the independence of other nations while asserting and maintaining her own.

    She has abstained from interference in the concerns of others, even when conflict has been for principles to which she clings, as to the last vital drop that visits the heart.

    She has seen that probably for centuries to come, all the contests of that Aceldama the European world, will be contests of inveterate power, and emerging right.

    Wherever the standard of freedom and Independence has been or shall be unfurled, there will her heart, her benedictions and her prayers be.

    But she goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy.

    She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all.

    She is the champion and vindicator only of her own.

    She will commend the general cause by the countenance of her voice, and the benignant sympathy of her example.

    She well knows that by once enlisting under other banners than her own, were they even the banners of foreign independence, she would involve herself beyond the power of extrication, in all the wars of interest and intrigue, of individual avarice, envy, and ambition, which assume the colors and usurp the standard of freedom.

    The fundamental maxims of her policy would insensibly change from liberty to force….

    She might become the dictatress of the world. She would be no longer the ruler of her own spirit….

    [America's] glory is not dominion, but liberty. Her march is the march of the mind. She has a spear and a shield: but the motto upon her shield is, Freedom, Independence, Peace. This has been her Declaration: this has been, as far as her necessary intercourse with the rest of mankind would permit, her practice.”

    – John Quincy Adams (Address on Foreign Policy – July 4, 1821)

    • Replies: @geokat62
    , @Rurik
    , @RobinG
  305. geokat62 says:
    @Junior

    Quite the speech. I especially liked this part:

    … the motto upon her shield is, Freedom, Independence, Peace. This has been her Declaration: this has been, as far as her necessary intercourse with the rest of mankind would permit, her practice.”

    JQA would probably be rolling in his grave if he knew how far the US has strayed from practising this motto.

  306. Rurik says:
    @Sam Shama

    Well since in your mind I am a liar

    it’s not in my mind Sam. You proved it ; )

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  307. Rurik says:
    @RobinG

    (his method, especially when criticized, is to rant interminably to obscure his lack of real response)

    : )

    I do rant, but not to obscure, but rather to enlighten, not that it’s always successful

    I’m flawed, I’m human, like all the rest of us

    but still, let me try to enlighten without ranting (too much ;)

    as long as any doubt is expressed about any minutia regarding the details of the Holocaust (much of which is known lies like the soap and lampshades) makes a person automatically dubbed (and smeared and demonized) as a “Holocaust denier”, even when the person has a point and is then dragged off to jail for what amounts to simply telling the truth as they see it, then I too demand the noble and honorable solidarity to be counted among them.

    This goes for people who have spoken truth to power from Jesus to Galileo to Edward Snowden. All of them, if people think threats of violence or jail can shut down people’s right to think and seek truth, then fuck them and their threats.

    Which is worse Robin, someone who they smear as being a ‘Holocaust denier’, ~ knowing that they’re lying and that the person is in no way is denying that the Holocaust happened – or the person being thusly lied about and maligned?

    should we speak the truth even when we’ll be persecuted for it?

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/french-comic-dieudonne-sentenced-to-jail-for-anti-semitism/

    should we demand the right of freedom of speech and freedom of thought even if there are those who would want to do us harm for it? Should threats cow us all into obedience to the dogmas of our time?

    who doubts that if he could that Sam would like to cause me some harm, not for saying anything that isn’t true, but for saying things he thinks he should have the power to prevent me from saying?

    no one here thinks I deny that the Holocaust happened. Of course it did. Only a stone could believe otherwise. But they will call you a Holocaust denier because they dishonestly want to paint you as an evil and terrible person so that they can control the parameters of the debate and force that narrative that has $erved them so amazingly well. Huh Sam?

    We shouldn’t let them.

  308. Rurik says:
    @Junior

    Hi Jr,

    “They use the word ‘denial’ to give the false impression that ‘deniers’ are saying that nothing happened.” Yes, that is because the word ‘denial’ MEANS that nothing happened. When someone declares themselves a Holocaust Denier unless they LITERALLY do not believe that there was a holocaust, they are bringing that false impression upon themselves.

    no they’re not

    because it’s such a stupid and worn out smear by now

    it’s like when Bibi calls the world ‘anti-Semites’ for criticizing his latest massacre in Gaza

    it’s like when Kanye West calls people racists because his shows don’t sell out

    there are some smears that by now are becoming so tiresome that they’ve entered into the realm of the obnoxious- and that’s how people are starting to see them

    how many Germans feel safer now that that lady is in jail? How many of the French are glad to see Dieudonne being locked up?

    would I go into a mall and shout that ‘the Holocaust never happened’? Of course not. That’s not what I’m doing. What I’m doing is saying enough!

    enough of the thug-like demands that I accept their narrative in whole or else

    do you know that that “or else” is?

    that ‘or else’ is that they’ll call me a “Holocaust denier”. Well fuck em. Call me that all day long.. thugs. I don’t accept your threats over my mind or my thoughts. They’re mine thankyouverymuch, and I’ll do with them al I please. ; )

  309. RobinG says:
    @Junior

    Jr., I see you chose to reply to my earlier post, instead of @315. Enough said.

    • Replies: @Junior
  310. Sam Shama says:
    @RobinG

    Hi Robin,
    There is little in your post that I cannot identify with. May I start by making a very simple observation? I have never met any jewish person in this country or in Israel proper, who thinks that jewish lives are more precious than others. [certainly I am aware of ultra "religious" cretins in the WB that think so, but I consider them neither jewish nor particularly sane]

    As a corollary, I believe that the Holocaust is neither unique in scale or atrocity self-inflicted by humans. Every century, with few exceptions really, provide examples that ought to startle, but only get relegated to the tertiary parts of common memory. [perhaps as the apex predator, we self- cull our numbers, inexorably driven by instincts that supersede rationality, morality and empathy - ...random thought]

    So therefore, I think it is important for every group to remember the tragedies that befell them, to curb our baser instincts (?)

    I may have mentioned this in the past, but for what its worth, my grandmother was in the eye of the storm during WWII [she refers to the number tattooed on her arm a fashion statement! She is like that]. She has a few stories that can make most people pause and think. So gas chambers or not, lamp-shades or not, teeth extracted for gold or not, 6 million or not, is utterly unimportant for me. I personally am not acquainted with any who use the Holocaust for cynical gain, but its quite possible that there are those who do. In any case, Robin, if I infer correctly from your post, you are, like me, of the opinion that exhuming the data on the event is unimportant. To further expand my position, those who wish to “critically” examine the story of the Holocaust, are obviously free to do so in USA, if not in some European countries. I care not a whit to participate in that great scholarly enterprise. All I ask, is that not every thread be hijacked by these pet obsessions. Typically many of these Knights (that said “Ni”?), are also saddled with annoying oddities and afflictions (“the Fed prints money to stuff Jewish pockets”!) which are entirely immune to data and reason; relentless handwaving being the weapon of choice for them, I simply surrender to that superior force of arms!

    The story on Kaufman is indeed instructive in its scope, and the modern mutation of uber-zionists would do well to draw important lessons from it, and well…from so much else in history. I hold hope that they do.

    Happy Thanksgiving!

  311. Sam Shama says:
    @Rurik

    Proof is sometimes a ephemeral concept, and as it applied to my comment to which you responded so predictably, the implications were the buzzing sounds you heard above your head; the moment has passed and it was not a drone.

  312. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @RobinG

    Yeah, I apologize for preaching to the choir :)

    • Replies: @RobinG
  313. RobinG says:
    @Junior

    Happy Thanksgiving, Jr.

    • Replies: @Junior
  314. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @RobinG

    Thanks, RobinG. I hope yours was a good one. I didn’t see your post in time to wish you a Happy Thanksgiving back, so Happy Holidays instead! :)

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