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J. Robert Oppenheimer was the scientific head of the U.S. atomic-bomb project during World War II. Oppenheimer was a brilliant physicist whose contributions were essential for the successful development of the atomic bomb. Gen. Leslie Groves, the overall head of what became known as the Manhattan Project, testified that Oppenheimer was an exceptionally hard worker who did a “magnificent job as far as the war effort was concerned.”[1]In the Matter of J. Robert Oppenheimer: Transcript of Hearing Before Personnel Security Board, Washington, D.C., pp. 165, 167.

Despite his outstanding performance in the Manhattan Project, Robert Oppenheimer’s reputation has been tainted by allegations that he knowingly passed secrets of the atomic bomb to Soviet agents. This article will discuss the possible truth of these allegations.

Pavel Sudoplatov’s Testimony

Pavel Sudoplatov was the wartime director of an elite unit of Soviet intelligence named the Administration for Special Tasks. Sudoplatov said that Gregory Kheifetz, an undercover NKVD operative in San Francisco, met Robert Oppenheimer alone for lunch in December 1941. Kheifetz was an experienced Soviet agent who knew better than to approach Oppenheimer with the usual money or threats. Instead, Kheifetz created a common ground of interest and idealism that the two men could discuss and compare.

Kheifetz reported in 1943 that Oppenheimer, whose father was a German-Jewish immigrant, was deeply moved by information that Stalin’s policies had crushed Soviet anti-Semitism. They discussed Stalin’s plans to secure a place for Jews in the Soviet Union by setting up an autonomous Jewish republic in the Crimea after the war against fascism was won.[2]Sudoplatov, Pavel and Sudoplatov, Anatoli, Special Tasks: The Memoirs of an Unwanted Witness—A Soviet Spymaster, New York: Little, Brown and Company, 1994, pp. xiii, 175-176, 188.

Sudoplatov stated that other Soviet agents were used in developing Oppenheimer as a source of information. Elizabeth Zarubina was a captain in the NKVD whom Kheifetz used to make friends with Oppenheimer’s wife Katherine. Through Katherine, Zarubina and Kheifetz convinced Oppenheimer to refrain from making statements sympathetic to Communist or left-wing groups in order not to call attention to himself. They also persuaded Oppenheimer to agree to hire, promote and share information concerning the atomic-bomb program with “anti-fascists of German origin.”[3]Ibid., pp. 189-190.
(Sudoplatov, Pavel and Sudoplatov, Anatoli, Special Tasks: The Memoirs of an Unwanted Witness—A Soviet Spymaster, New York: Little, Brown and Company, 1994, pp. xiii, 175-176, 188.)

One such anti-fascist of German origin was Klaus Fuchs, a German communist who was forced to seek refuge in England in 1933. Fuchs was instructed to use a code sentence when he met Oppenheimer and to identify himself as the only one on the British team who had escaped from a German prison camp. Fuchs thus gained Oppenheimer’s respect and confidence and, through Oppenheimer, was given access to material he had no right to look at. According to Sudoplatov, Fuchs reported secret information concerning the atomic-bomb project to the Soviets with Oppenheimer’s full knowledge and approval.[4]Ibid., pp. 193-194.
(Sudoplatov, Pavel and Sudoplatov, Anatoli, Special Tasks: The Memoirs of an Unwanted Witness—A Soviet Spymaster, New York: Little, Brown and Company, 1994, pp. xiii, 175-176, 188.)

After World War II, the Soviets initiated a peace campaign against nuclear armament, which was maintained until they exploded their own nuclear bomb in 1949. Disarmament and the inability to impose nuclear blackmail would deprive the United States of its advantage in nuclear weapons. Through Klaus Fuchs, the Soviets also planted the idea that Oppenheimer and other leading scientists should oppose the hydrogen bomb. According to Sudoplatov, Oppenheimer truly believed in his positions and did not know he was being used by the Soviets.[5]Ibid., pp. 207-208.
(Sudoplatov, Pavel and Sudoplatov, Anatoli, Special Tasks: The Memoirs of an Unwanted Witness—A Soviet Spymaster, New York: Little, Brown and Company, 1994, pp. xiii, 175-176, 188.)

William Borden’s Evidence

William Borden, a graduate of Princeton and Yale Law School, was the executive director of the Joint Congressional Committee of Atomic Energy (JCCAE). Since Robert Oppenheimer consistently gave advice contrary to the programs the JCCAE wished to pursue, Borden developed a deep-seated distrust of Oppenheimer. Borden began considering the possibility that Oppenheimer was a disloyal American.[6]Teller, Edward, Memoirs: A Twentieth-Century Journey in Science and Politics, Cambridge, MA: Perseus Publishing, 2001, p. 386.

Borden was given Oppenheimer’s FBI security file shortly before leaving the JCCAE at the end of May 1953. As he studied the file, Borden became convinced that Oppenheimer was a Soviet agent.[7]Monk, Ray, Robert Oppenheimer: A Life Inside the Center, New York: Doubleday, 2012, p. 620. Borden wrote a letter to FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover. Borden stated in this letter that at the time of Oppenheimer’s first security application in 1942:

He [Oppenheimer] was contributing substantial monthly sums to the Communist Party; his ties with communism had survived the Nazi-Soviet Pact and the Soviet attack upon Finland; his wife and younger brother were Communists; he had no close friends except Communists; he had at least one Communist mistress; he belonged only to Communist organizations, apart from professional affiliations; the people whom he recruited into the early wartime Berkeley atomic project were exclusively Communists; he had been instrumental in securing recruits for the Communist Party; and he was in frequent contact with Soviet espionage agents.

In May 1942, he either stopped contributing funds to the Communist Party or else made his contributions through a new channel not yet discovered; in April 1942 his name was formally submitted for security clearance; he himself was aware at the time that his name had been so submitted; and he thereafter repeatedly gave false information to General Groves, the Manhattan District, and the FBI concerning the 1939–April 1942 period.

He was responsible for employing a number of Communists, some of them nontechnical, at wartime Los Alamos; he selected one such individual to write the official Los Alamos history; he was a vigorous supporter of the H-bomb program until August 6, 1945 (Hiroshima), on which day he personally urged each senior individual working in this field to desist; and he was an enthusiastic sponsor of the A-bomb project until the war ended, when he immediately and outspokenly advocated that the Los Alamos Laboratory be disbanded.

He was remarkably instrumental in influencing the military authorities and the Atomic Energy Commission essentially to suspend H-bomb development from mid-1946 through January 31, 1950; he has worked tirelessly, from January 31, 1950, onward, to retard the United States H-bomb program; he has used his potent influence against every postwar effort to expand capacity for producing A-bomb material; he has used his potent influence against every postwar effort directed at obtaining larger supplies of uranium raw material; and he has used his potent influence against every major postwar effort toward atomic power development, including the nuclear-powered submarine and aircraft programs as well as industrial power projects.[8]Teller, Edward, Memoirs: A Twentieth-Century Journey in Science and Politics, Cambridge, MA: Perseus Publishing, 2001, p. 387; also Major, John, The Oppenheimer Hearing, New York: Stein and Day, 1971, pp. 29-33.

From these facts, Borden concluded that “more probably than not, J. Robert Oppenheimer was a sufficiently hardened communist that he either volunteered espionage information to the Soviets or complied with a request for such information…and has since acted under a Soviet directive in influencing United States military, atomic energy, intelligence and diplomatic policy.”[9]Ibid., p. 388.
(Teller, Edward, Memoirs: A Twentieth-Century Journey in Science and Politics, Cambridge, MA: Perseus Publishing, 2001, p. 387; also Major, John, The Oppenheimer Hearing, New York: Stein and Day, 1971, pp. 29-33.)

The AEC Hearings

Oppenheimer eventually had his security clearance suspended and was asked to resign his advisory position with the Atomic Energy Commission (AEC). When Oppenheimer chose not to resign, the AEC conducted a hearing in Washington, D.C. from April 12, 1954 through May 6, 1954 to determine if Oppenheimer’s security clearance should be revoked.[10]Monk, Ray, Robert Oppenheimer: A Life Inside the Center, New York: Doubleday, 2012, pp. 621-622, 633.

Oppenheimer and his attorneys worked hard to defend his reputation. On March 5, 1954, they rebutted the AEC’s charges with a 42-page response written in the form of an autobiography.[11]Bird, Kai and Sherwin, Martin J., American Prometheus: The Triumph and Tragedy of J. Robert Oppenheimer, New York: Vintage Books, p. 2006, p. 496.

However, the AEC hearings did not go well for Oppenheimer. Roger Robb, the AEC’s attorney, was effective in undermining Oppenheimer’s credibility. According to Oppenheimer’s sworn testimony, Oppenheimer made up what he called a “cock and bull story” and told it to a security officer as fact. Additionally, Oppenheimer had lied in such a way that he put his friend Haakon Chevalier in the worst possible light. When Robb asked why he did that, Oppenheimer replied “Because I was an idiot.”[12]Teller, Edward, Memoirs: A Twentieth-Century Journey in Science and Politics, Cambridge, MA: Perseus Publishing, 2001, pp. 375-377.

Robb then took Oppenheimer through all of the details of his false statements made in a conversation with another security officer, Col. Boris Pash. Robb then asked Oppenheimer: “Isn’t it a fair statement today, Dr. Oppenheimer, that according to your testimony now you told not one lie to Colonel Pash, but a whole fabrication and tissue of lies? Oppenheimer replied, “Right.”[13]In the Matter of J. Robert Oppenheimer: Transcript of Hearing Before Personnel Security Board, Washington, D.C., p. 149.

After Oppenheimer’s admission to several lies, it did not matter how many eminent people the defense produced to vouch for Oppenheimer’s loyalty. Oppenheimer had admitted under oath that he had lied several times, after which Robb kept reminding the defense witnesses at the hearing of these palpable facts. All Robb had to do was repeat Oppenheimer’s testimony and ask the witnesses if such testimony was indicative of an honest, reliable and trustworthy person.[14]Monk, Ray, Robert Oppenheimer: A Life Inside the Center, New York: Doubleday, 2012, p. 637.

Robb was even able to undermine all of the supportive things Gen. Leslie Groves had to say about Oppenheimer. Robb asked Groves: “General, in the light of your experience with security matters and in the light of your knowledge of the file pertaining to Dr. Oppenheimer, would you clear Dr. Oppenheimer today?” Gen. Groves replied, “I would not clear Dr. Oppenheimer today if I were a member of the commission…”[15]In the Matter of J. Robert Oppenheimer: Transcript of Hearing Before Personnel Security Board, Washington, D.C., p. 171.

U.S. Army Capt. Peer DeSilva, a member of the Los Alamos security staff, stated that “J. R. Oppenheimer is playing a key part in the attempts of the Soviet Union to secure, by espionage, highly secret information which is vital to the security of the United States.” DeSilva said that Oppenheimer had “allowed a tight clique of known communists or communist sympathizers to grow up about him within the project, until they comprise a large proportion of the key personnel in whose hands the success and secrecy of the project is entrusted.” In DeSilva’s opinion, Oppenheimer must be either incredibly naïve, or extremely clever and disloyal.[16]Major, John, The Oppenheimer Hearing, New York: Stein and Day, 1971, p. 55.

The AEC board voted not to reinstate Oppenheimer’s security clearance. The majority report emphasized that they did not doubt Oppenheimer’s loyalty to his country. However, they decided that it would not be clearly consistent with the security interests of the United Sates to reinstate Dr. Oppenheimer’s clearance.[17]Monk, Ray, Robert Oppenheimer: A Life Inside the Center, New York: Doubleday, 2012, pp. 643-644.

Sudoplatov’s Credibility Questioned

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Pavel Sudoplatov’s testimony has been widely dismissed by scientists, historians and journalists. They state that the American government’s “Venona files” contain no evidence that Oppenheimer was a Communist Party member or that he gave secret information to Soviet agents while on the Manhattan Project. To this, Jerrold and Leona Schecter, who interviewed Sudoplatov for the book Special Tasks, reply that atomic espionage went through Santa Fe to Mexico City in order to avoid Washington surveillance. Therefore, the reports from the Manhattan Project were not recorded because they went through channels other than Venona.[18]Schecter, Jerrold and Leona, Sacred Secrets: How Soviet Intelligence Operations Changed American History, Washington, D.C.: Brassey’s, Inc., 2002, p. 300.

Some historians state that it was impossible for Oppenheimer to have deliberately recruited Klaus Fuchs to Los Alamos. However, Aleksandr Feklisov, who was Fuchs’s case officer, wrote that “by the end of 1943 Robert Oppenheimer, the leader of the work on the creation of the American atomic bomb, who highly appreciated the theoretical works of Fuchs, asked to include Fuchs as part of the British scientific mission coming to the U.S.A. to assist the project.”[19]Sudoplatov, Pavel and Sudoplatov, Anatoli, Special Tasks: The Memoirs of an Unwanted Witness—A Soviet Spymaster, New York: Little, Brown and Company, 1994, p. 193, footnote 18.

Other critics of Sudoplatov state that he was an old, incoherent man who made several mistakes in his interviews. For example, Sudoplatov stated that attitudes in Denmark toward Russians were especially warm immediately after World War II because Denmark had been liberated by the Red Army. Obviously, Denmark was liberated by the British and not the Russians.[20]https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/199...2e0e/.

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The American Physical Society also held a press conference in which five experts denounced Sudoplatov’s statements about Oppenheimer “as wildly inaccurate and probably fictitious.” The organization’s 40-member council expressed “profound dismay” at the accusations “made by a man who has characterized himself as a master of deception and deceit.”[21]Romerstein, Herbert and Breindel, Eric, The Venona Secrets: Exposing Soviet Espionage and America’s Traitors, Washington, D.C.: Regnery Publishing, Inc., 2000, pp. 274-275.

However, the Schecters found documentary evidence to verify Sudoplatov’s story. As stated in The Venona Secrets:

Sudoplatov had been jailed in 1953 by the Soviet government because of his close association with the then-discredited Lavrenti Beria. In 1968 he was released and tried in succeeding years to get a Communist Party hearing to rehabilitate him and restore him to the good graces of the Soviet leadership. In 1982, for example, he sent an appeal to Yuri Andropov and the Politburo outlining his career and asking for rehabilitation. In this secret document, Sudoplatov boasted that he had “rendered considerable help to our scientists by giving them the latest materials on atom bomb research, obtained from such sources as the famous nuclear physicists R. Oppenheimer, E. Fermi, K. Fuchs, and others.” It would have made no sense for Sudoplatov to lie to Andropov, the former head of the KGB and dictator of the Soviet Union, who would have easily found him out.

Until Sudoplatov’s testimony, even Venona could not prove that Oppenheimer had collaborated with Soviet intelligence; the only conclusion had to have been a Scotch verdict—unproved—or, as the NSA commented, “troubling.” But with Sudoplatov’s information we can say for certain that Oppenheimer did in fact knowingly supply classified information on the atom bomb to the Soviet Union.[22]Ibid., p. 275.
(Romerstein, Herbert and Breindel, Eric, The Venona Secrets: Exposing Soviet Espionage and America’s Traitors, Washington, D.C.: Regnery Publishing, Inc., 2000, pp. 274-275.)

Conclusion

The full extent of and final word on Manhattan Project infiltration by Soviet espionage remains hidden until the further opening of Soviet archives.[23]Schecter, Jerrold and Leona, Sacred Secrets: How Soviet Intelligence Operations Changed American History, Washington, D.C.: Brassey’s, Inc., 2002, p. 300. However, the weight of the evidence currently indicates that Robert Oppenheimer knowingly passed secrets of the Manhattan project to Soviet agents.

What was Robert Oppenheimer’s motive for such illegal activity? He was certainly not motivated by money. Oppenheimer was born into a wealthy Jewish family and had received a large inheritance when his father died in 1937.[24]Bird, Kai and Sherwin, Martin J., American Prometheus: The Triumph and Tragedy of J. Robert Oppenheimer, New York: Vintage Books, p. 2006, p. 128.

The Schecters summarize Sudoplatov’s explanation of why Robert Oppenheimer and other scientists passed atomic secrets to Soviet agents:

None of the Western scientists who provided atomic secrets to the Soviet Union were controlled agents in the sense that they were paid or had signed recruitment contracts. Their fear that Hitler might produce an atomic bomb first was the initial motivation for sharing their knowledge with Soviet scientists. Later they believed that equality of superpower status for the Soviet Union would contribute to world peace. In dealing with them, Sudplatov realized that the scientists saw themselves as a new breed of superstatesmen whose mandate transcended national boundaries; he and his officers exploited this hubris.[25]Sudoplatov, Pavel and Sudoplatov, Anatoli, Special Tasks: The Memoirs of an Unwanted Witness—A Soviet Spymaster, New York: Little, Brown and Company, 1994, p. xiv.

Endnotes

[1] In the Matter of J. Robert Oppenheimer: Transcript of Hearing Before Personnel Security Board, Washington, D.C., pp. 165, 167.

[2] Sudoplatov, Pavel and Sudoplatov, Anatoli, Special Tasks: The Memoirs of an Unwanted Witness—A Soviet Spymaster, New York: Little, Brown and Company, 1994, pp. xiii, 175-176, 188.

[3] Ibid., pp. 189-190.

[4] Ibid., pp. 193-194.

[5] Ibid., pp. 207-208.

[6] Teller, Edward, Memoirs: A Twentieth-Century Journey in Science and Politics, Cambridge, MA: Perseus Publishing, 2001, p. 386.

[7] Monk, Ray, Robert Oppenheimer: A Life Inside the Center, New York: Doubleday, 2012, p. 620.

[8] Teller, Edward, Memoirs: A Twentieth-Century Journey in Science and Politics, Cambridge, MA: Perseus Publishing, 2001, p. 387; also Major, John, The Oppenheimer Hearing, New York: Stein and Day, 1971, pp. 29-33.

[9] Ibid., p. 388.

[10] Monk, Ray, Robert Oppenheimer: A Life Inside the Center, New York: Doubleday, 2012, pp. 621-622, 633.

[11] Bird, Kai and Sherwin, Martin J., American Prometheus: The Triumph and Tragedy of J. Robert Oppenheimer, New York: Vintage Books, p. 2006, p. 496.

[12] Teller, Edward, Memoirs: A Twentieth-Century Journey in Science and Politics, Cambridge, MA: Perseus Publishing, 2001, pp. 375-377.

[13] In the Matter of J. Robert Oppenheimer: Transcript of Hearing Before Personnel Security Board, Washington, D.C., p. 149.

[14] Monk, Ray, Robert Oppenheimer: A Life Inside the Center, New York: Doubleday, 2012, p. 637.

[15] In the Matter of J. Robert Oppenheimer: Transcript of Hearing Before Personnel Security Board, Washington, D.C., p. 171.

[16] Major, John, The Oppenheimer Hearing, New York: Stein and Day, 1971, p. 55.

[17] Monk, Ray, Robert Oppenheimer: A Life Inside the Center, New York: Doubleday, 2012, pp. 643-644.

[18] Schecter, Jerrold and Leona, Sacred Secrets: How Soviet Intelligence Operations Changed American History, Washington, D.C.: Brassey’s, Inc., 2002, p. 300.

[19] Sudoplatov, Pavel and Sudoplatov, Anatoli, Special Tasks: The Memoirs of an Unwanted Witness—A Soviet Spymaster, New York: Little, Brown and Company, 1994, p. 193, footnote 18.

[20] https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/1994/05/27/the-book-at-ground-zero/3fbc2131-dea8-4fd8-95aa-80771f4e2e0e/.

[21] Romerstein, Herbert and Breindel, Eric, The Venona Secrets: Exposing Soviet Espionage and America’s Traitors, Washington, D.C.: Regnery Publishing, Inc., 2000, pp. 274-275.

[22] Ibid., p. 275.

[23] Schecter, Jerrold and Leona, Sacred Secrets: How Soviet Intelligence Operations Changed American History, Washington, D.C.: Brassey’s, Inc., 2002, p. 300.

[24] Bird, Kai and Sherwin, Martin J., American Prometheus: The Triumph and Tragedy of J. Robert Oppenheimer, New York: Vintage Books, p. 2006, p. 128.

[25] Sudoplatov, Pavel and Sudoplatov, Anatoli, Special Tasks: The Memoirs of an Unwanted Witness—A Soviet Spymaster, New York: Little, Brown and Company, 1994, p. xiv.

 
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  1. Pindos says:

    Well of course he was.

    • Agree: Alfred
    • Replies: @Herald
  2. Dan Hayes says:

    With one exception, Princeton’s John Archibald Wheeler always went out of his way to be collegial and complementary towards his fellow physicists. That exception being Oppenheimer whose behavior he found unsettling and untrustworthy.

  3. Alden says:

    Of course he was a soviet agent, like every other Jew at Los Alamos. It’s well established. Look at David Greenglass. Yes he was a skilled and experienced machinist, well qualified to be foreman of the Los Alamos machine shop that made the prototype of the bomb. But there were about half a million machinists in the country in 1940.

    And a NooYawk 3rd generation communist Jew machinist just happens to be picked to be foreman of the machine shop. It’s a wonder FDR didn’t invite Stalin’s government to rule the USA during his time in office.

    • Agree: anarchyst, JMcG
  4. Lot says:

    “ sources as the famous nuclear physicists R. Oppenheimer, E. Fermi,”

    So Enrico Fermi was a spy too?

  5. chris says:

    there is another source, implicating Oppenheimer in spying, and according to the economist Yuri Maltsev who has read this himself in the Volkogonov archives in the Library of Congress. Maltsev quotes Oppenheimer from the archives as stating to a KGB handler (Kheifetz?) as stating: ‘I will never give you any information, … but, if you recommend to me certain individuals, I will make sure they will get a job on the project.’ (this is from my own memory but I can provide the audio link also) Which must be the most weasel cop-out ever given, ‘yeah, I won’t take any risks myself, but I will let some other sucker do that!’

    • Replies: @Alden
  6. J says: • Website

    The intellectual elite of those times was Leftist just as it is today. What is truly remarkable is how the American military was able to manage those gifted but utterly unreliable group and make them build the most powerful weapon on Earth. The scientists made fun of those fat, dumb, ignorant generals in charge of the project, yet without their direction the project may have become a nest of vipers biting each other, like most university physics departments.

    • Replies: @Alexandros
    , @foolisholdman
  7. Gizmo880 says:

    What does it really matter? It seems certain that if he did pass information to the Soviet Union it came out of some personal conviction that he thought was right at the time. What else can a man be expected to do?

    The Soviets were going to build a bomb sooner or later, and since the world didn’t blow up during the Cold War, whatever the truth is regarding Oppenheimer seems trivial at this point.

    I write this as someone who hated all things Russia/Soviet Union as a young man and who wholeheartedly agreed with Ronnie when he called them the Evil Empire and joked about ‘outlawing’ them. Nowadays? The time may come when Russia is one of the last safe havens for White people after the Zionists and their Left Wing Nut Job ‘useful idiots’ get done destroying the West. Long live Mother Russia!

    Interesting historical information, though.

    • Agree: byrresheim
    • Replies: @Alfred
  8. anon[612] • Disclaimer says:

    Sudoplatov states he wasn’t an agent per se. I know, looking at the book on my shelf. However, Comrade Sudo goes on to state that his attitude toward the Soviets having the bomb was friendly to put it mildly. The Soviets could not understand why the American traitors were willing to betray their country to readily, and without being paid. It actually creeped them out. Paid mercenaries were understandable. Men and women (primarily jews, of course) that willing jumped into the insanity of Stalinism were considered unreliable in the long term. These willing commissars would have been liquidated immediately should the USSR take over the West, as the Russians quite reasonably despise traitors. Homosexuals were targeted for the same reasons, and were liquidated in the Motherland for the same reasons.

    Oppenheimer seems to be an example of that self hatred that would prefer to be exterminated by a totalitarian regime than to live in liberty. The Soviets would have put two in the back of his head should they have come to power; one wonders if that is part of the reason for his (and his fellows) actions. Bolshevism was a millennialist cult. Stalin seems to have decided that power was its own reward, and liquidated his former comrades as a result. I’d say the Western (((Trotskite))) version never gave up this desire to end the world

    • Replies: @Alfa158
  9. anon[486] • Disclaimer says:

    To Oppenheimer, and other communist Jews, did communism mean the literal communist principles: a situation where the “state control the means of production creating an egalitarian utopia of equality and plenty” or did it just mean “good for the Jews?”

    That is, were Jews attracted to communism simply because they saw the communists as being pro-Jewish partisans, or was it the “communist ideology” itself that attracted them? What was the draw?

    Maybe someone understands the psychology and can explain it.

  10. Adelaar says:

    What was Robert Oppenheimer’s motive for such illegal activity? He was certainly not motivated by money. Oppenheimer was born into a wealthy Jewish family

    “So it was not about the money. There must be some other explanation, then.” *Looking really hard at that last sentence* “Hmmm…”

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  11. “More probably than not” LOLOLOLOLOL.

    Hey, does Adam Schiff like Trump? Less probably than not!

  12. The Roosevelt administration was chock-full of Communist agents who did far more to hurt the American cause than Oppenheimer, who at least had the decency to give us The Bomb first.

    • Replies: @Curmudgeon
    , @foolisholdman
  13. The motives for so many Western spies serving the Soviet Union – and in the 1940s and 1950s the Soviets had the best “humint” on earth – were rather idealistic. This was largely true for the Cambridge Circle in Britain. They were concerned that America was going to “lord it over” the Russians and everyone else.

    America was feared by many intellectuals, both in the United States and Britain of the 1940s and 1950s, and their fears were not unwarranted.

    Big, brawny America – its power establishment – very much was inclined towards dominating the world after WWII.

    The whole tone of the American press and speeches of major political figures in the period was actually quite frightening. Any highly intelligent, sensitive type would be concerned by it.

    You certainly did not have to be a communist to feel that way, but being one assisted with access to important Soviet contacts. They sought you out.

    America wanted a monopoly on nuclear weapons, so that it would be in an unassailable position as it built its imperial apparatus after WWII, the time effectively it “took over” as world imperial power with so many potential competitors flattened.

    It made little secret of its desire to keep such a monopoly, so brilliant people like Oppenheimer would be well aware of something they might well regard as ominous.

    Later, the Pentagon actually planned things like an all-out first strike on the Soviets – it did that more once as well as doing so later for China – so there were indeed plenty of dark intentions in Washington.

    A hugely important general like MacArthur was unblinkingly ready in 1950 to use atomic weapons in the Korean War to destroy North Korea’s connections with China.

    I read several major biographies of Oppenheimer, and there is little to nothing concerning Soviet intelligence work. When I came across the Sudoplatov book with its straightforward declaration of Oppenheimer’s assistance, it was difficult to know how to weigh the claim.

    Spies and ex-spies often put disinformation into their books. Sometimes officials even insist they do so.

    Judging by what is suggested here, if Oppenheimer did help, it was in subtle ways like letting Klaus Fuchs, a fellow scientist and a rather distinguished one (but a Soviet spy), look at certain papers. But the scientific community always has some considerable tendency to share information, a tendency having nothing to do with spying.

    In general, it should be understood, that Oppenheimer, despite all his brilliance, was a rather disturbed man all his life. Quite early on, as just one example, he attempted to poison someone he did not like. Only pure luck prevented the man’s eating a lethally-laced apple. There were other disturbing behaviors too.

    He was subject to severe emotional breakdowns.

  14. Hibernian says:

    The judgments of history and the judgments of an administrative board deciding on a security clearance are both quite properly based on a lower standard of proof than the guilty-beyond-a -reasonable-doubt standard of a criminal trial. There’s not just a preponderance of the evidence, but clear and convincing evidence, that the question which is the title of this post is properly answered in the affirmative.

    Also, a spy doesn’t have to turn over sketches or blueprints to do great damage. Information can be passed on by word of mouth. This could be quite technical information if the cutouts are competent in the field. The recruitment of others is also an area where the spy can assist his handlers.

    His enthusiasm for The Bomb evaporated when the War, in which we were enemies of the Nazis and Allies with the Soviets, ended, and the Cold War against the USSR began.

    The defenses the Left put forward for this man and others like hin insulted the intelligence of the american public to the nth degree.

    • Replies: @Alfa158
    , @Alden
  15. Sean says:

    Klaus Fuchs was more essential than Oppenheimer. Fuchs’s ideas were the basis on which others improved to come up with the way to get the thing to work. So it was perhaps understandable that he was given more access than he should.

    Oppenheimer was intelligent, but intelligence is by no means unaggressive. John von Neumann (and Bertrand Russell) advocated threatening or actually using a nuclear strike, against the Soviet Union to prevent it acquiring the atomic bomb.

  16. God Bless Robert and ALL who helped to make sure 5 headed beast was not the only one with the ability to destroy mankind.
    Imagine Billy’s wife and Albright being the ONLY ones with the bomba?
    God Bless Kim and EVERY Sovereign Nation anywhere.

  17. One such anti-fascist of German origin was Klaus Fuchs, a German communist who was forced to seek refuge in England in 1933.

    Fuchs was a remarkable character, both among the anti-fascists of German origin in general and the original atomic spies in particular. He is one of those case where calling him larger than life in the book blurbs isn’t really very overblown, from anti-Nazism to internment in Canada to Manhattan-related business and his post-war career. During his active years in the underground, he became friends with a virtual Who’s Who of its leading luminaries, including Jürgen Kuczynski, who was apparently somewhat of a mentor to him. The wartime story, of course, is fairly well known. Then, after he served his prison sentence, he moved to East Germany, where he became head of their scientific establishment and was decorated with the Order of Karl Marx. Some people say he helped the Chinese build their first bomb.

    Though perhaps most remarkable of all, in terms of these conspiracies of German origin, is that he was in fact German, the son of a (very liberal) Lutheran pastor.

    • Replies: @Curmudgeon
  18. I am shocked by more Jewish treachery and betrayal.
    Loyal to none.

  19. The Scalpel says: • Website

    They had a piss tape on him

  20. “the[y] . . . saw themselves as a new breed of superstatesmen whose mandate transcended national boundaries”

    Like Vindman

    • Agree: Hail
    • Replies: @Carolyn Yeager
  21. Herald says:
    @Pindos

    Well of course he was.

    But that doesn’t mean he acted incorrectly.

    • Agree: foolisholdman
  22. Later they believed that equality of superpower status for the Soviet Union would contribute to world peace.

    How dumb were these “scientists”. Everyone knows that once Soviet Union fell, peace and freedom and democracy are flowering all over the world and United States are not waging any wars anymore.

    • Replies: @byrresheim
    , @AnonFromTN
  23. Oh, for God’s sake. “Was Oppenheimer a spy”? Of course he was. He came out of the same sewer that produced so many Soviet spies and Fellow Travelers. Allow me to point out, to those who bring up the “He did it because he was Jewish and was afraid of Nazi’s”, that 99.9 percent of Jews did not feel the need to spy for Stalin, though we can assume they elt the same about the Hitler crowd.

  24. Pheasant says:

    ‘Kheifetz was an experienced Soviet agent who knew better than to approach Oppenheimer with the usual money or threats. Instead, Kheifetz created a common ground of interest and idealism that the two men could discuss and compare.

    Kheifetz reported in 1943 that Oppenheimer, whose father was a German-Jewish immigrant, was deeply moved by information that Stalin’s policies had crushed Soviet anti-Semitism. They discussed Stalin’s plans to secure a place for Jews in the Soviet Union by setting up an autonomous Jewish republic in the Crimea after the war against fascism was won.’

    I have said it before and I will say it again: Jewish ethnocentrism is simply unbelievable.

    They really are different.

  25. Truth3 says:

    Jews.

    Can’t trust them, ever. About anything.

  26. @anon

    The question of loyalty or treason among Jews is nearly always an opportunistic tribal affair. Communism in Russia was established by a Jewish coup (not in the last place financed by American-Jewish banker Jacob Schiff), therefore Jews in the US felt loyalty towards Soviet Russia. The Jewish owned New York Times never mentioned the outrageous crimes of the Communist regime in Russia out of that tribal loyalty, and persons like Oppenheimer and the couple Julius and Ethel Rosenberg betrayed US nuclear secrets to the Soviet Union out of that same tribal loyalty. After the fall of the Soviet Union Jewish oligarchs took the opportunity to rob Russia of nearly all its assets and Jews became enthousiast loyalists to the chaotic Yeltsin regime that made this possible. But since Putin put a stop to this robbery and restored Russia’s economy, Jews in the US are now fanatically anti-Russian, and this again out of that same tribal loyalty. Ask yourself what is at this moment “good for Jews” and you know where Jewish loyalty lies – at this moment.

  27. Pheasant says:

    ‘They state that the American government’s “Venona files” contain no evidence that Oppenheimer was a Communist Party member or that he gave secret information to Soviet agents while on the Manhattan Project’

    The venona decryptions (using supercomputers to break Soviet spy communications and review U.S intelligence failures) in the early 90s was stopped because it was coming up with too many Jewish traitors. It has all but proven McCarthy correct.

  28. Pheasant says:

    ‘Gen. Leslie Groves, the overall head of what became known as the Manhattan Project, testified that Oppenheimer was an exceptionally hard worker who did a “magnificent job as far as the war effort was concerned’

    Remember that the Jews who were building the atmoic bomb fully expected it to be dropped on Berlin and were disgusted when it was dropped on Japan. That is why they were working feverishly- revenge.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  29. @J

    What is usually the result when a bunch of Jews come together to invent something? What is the Jewish “invention” per excellence? Is it in the realm of science, or in the realm of fiction?

  30. Mr. Anon says:

    Kheifetz reported in 1943 that Oppenheimer, whose father was a German-Jewish immigrant, was deeply moved by information that Stalin’s policies had crushed Soviet anti-Semitism. They discussed Stalin’s plans to secure a place for Jews in the Soviet Union by setting up an autonomous Jewish republic in the Crimea after the war against fascism was won.[2]

    I’ve read a fair amount about Oppenheimer. I can’t remember one scrap of information that indicated he was a zionist, or that he particularly identified as jewish. He seemed entirely uninterested in his jewish ethnicity, and perhaps even consciously ran away from it. So this whole tale sounds fake.

    All the evidence for JRO being a Soviet spy still comes down to the uncorroborated assertions of this one unreliable source, Sudoplatov.

  31. Mr. Anon says:
    @Lot

    So Enrico Fermi was a spy too?

    I noticed that too. Yet nobody else ever mentions his name in connection with Soviet espionage.

    Same load of hooey.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  32. @Pheasant

    How the Jews Defeated Hitler, by Benjamin Ginsberg

    “Jews resisted [Nazis] very vigorously . . . first [through] the Soviet army. Jews constituted a significant percentage of the fighting strength of the Soviet army, including both its combat and political officers . . . More importantly . . . Jewish engineers supervised the evacuation and reconstruction of Soviet military industry in 1941 and designed and built many of the weapons upon which the Soviet army depended during the war. . . . [weapons that] allowed the Soviets to survive the disasters of 1941 and, in four years, to drive the Wehrmacht back to Berlin.
    . . .
    Jewish scientists worked to build the atom bomb, a weapon that became America’s ace in the hole and eventually ended the war. . . . had the Germans fought on just a few months longer, or had the Jewish scientists of the Manhattan Project completed their work just a few months sooner, the war would certainly have brought Vernichtung [extermination] — for the Germans.

  33. TheBAG says:

    I want to personally thank the scheming Jews who, in an attempt to protect the civilization that they had so carefully crafted over the last century, treasonously prevented the United States from killing millions of people with nuclear weapons as they were planning to do. Thank you.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Alden
  34. @anon

    That is, were Jews attracted to communism simply because they saw the communists as being pro-Jewish partisans, or was it the “communist ideology” itself that attracted them? What was the draw?

    Maybe someone understands the psychology and can explain it.

    I think the article nailed the motive perfectly:

    “The scientists saw themselves as a new breed of superstatesmen whose mandate transcended national boundaries; he and his officers exploited this hubris.”

    Arrogance is a common human failure and the religion of the “chosen people” develops that arrogance at an early age, and it sticks even if the religious component fades in adult-hood.

    The Communist is the central planner–he believes that he can make Utopia, as long as the deplorables bend to his will.

    Likewise he is the foreign policy “expert” or the gender-bender “expert” or the climate “expert”.

    Scratch a self-proclaimed “expert” and you found yourself a water-flouridating Commie. 😉

  35. @Mr. Anon

    Fermi left Italy in 1938 to escape new Italian racial laws that affected his Jewish wife, Laura Capon. He emigrated to the United States, where he worked on the Manhattan Project during World War II. Fermi led the team that designed and built Chicago Pile-1, which went critical on 2 December 1942, demonstrating the first human-created, self-sustaining nuclear chain reaction. . . . At Los Alamos, . . . He was present at the Trinity test on 16 July 1945, where he used his Fermi method to estimate the bomb’s yield.

    After the war, Fermi served under J. Robert Oppenheimer on the General Advisory Committee, which advised the Atomic Energy Commission on nuclear matters. After the detonation of the first Soviet fission bomb in August 1949, he strongly opposed the development of a hydrogen bomb on both moral and technical grounds. He was among the scientists who testified on Oppenheimer’s behalf at the 1954 hearing that resulted in the denial of Oppenheimer’s security clearance.

    So: the Italian Fermi had a legalized relationship to a Jewish woman much the same as Mussolini’s extra-legalized relationship to a Jewish woman. The activities of both Jewish-influenced Italians to the subversion of their Italian fatherland and to the destruction of Christian nations that Jews hated.

  36. Haha says:

    Oh my God! What a torrent of anti-commie, anti-Jewish, anti-peace comments. Oppenheimer, like all great scientists and thinkers the world over, saw himself as a human being first, everything else second. Scientists and mathematicians will freely discuss scientific ideas with their intellectual peers all over the world. Nothing commie about it. In any case, the record of anti-commies is hardly attractive for all their advocacy and actions of “bomb this”, “destroy that”, “kill him, blow them up”. All the great scientists aided the anti-Hitler war effort but, once the war turned decisively against Germany, could see what lay ahead if one state was to acquire exclusive control over nuclear weapons. If indeed people like Oppenheimer somehow aided Russia – which is doubtful – in the long run they promoted world peace, freedom, and human survival by instilling in deranged anti-commie minds a healthy sense of restraint through the balance of terror. Otherwise we would have had country after country laid to waste because the “price was worth it”.

    And for the record: Oppenhemer, Einstein and many of the other greats advocated for the abolishment of nuclear weapons as soon as WWII came to an end. How dare they, the Jewish commies, try to promote peace and human survival!

  37. John Wear says:
    @Mr. Anon

    Mr. Anon,

    I have read most of the Robert Oppenheimer biographies. You are correct that they do not mention that Oppenheimer was a Zionist. For a long time, I did not believe that Oppenheimer would give information to the Soviets concerning the atomic bomb.

    However, I do not agree with you that all of the evidence comes down to just Sudoplatov. Oppenheimer admitted under oath at the AEC hearings that he made numerous lies to Col. Boris Pash, a security officer at Los Alamos. Why would Oppenheimer make repeated lies to Col. Pash unless he had something to hide?

    Also, if you read William Borden’s letter to J. Edgar Hoover, this provides substantial corroborating evidence that Oppenheimer was a Communist and a Soviet sympathizer. Borden’s letter indicates that Oppenheimer was doing everything the Soviets would have wanted him to do after the war.

    Thus, while I don’t think we can say definitively that Oppenheimer gave away atomic secrets to the Soviets, I think there is a good chance that he did.

    • Replies: @chris
    , @Mr. Anon
  38. @SolontoCroesus

    My exact same thought. What we’ve just witnessed in the House Intelligence Committee hearings, and in fact ever since Donald Trump began running for president, is this same breed of (leftist) superstatesmen who believe they must transcend national boundaries. In other words, internationalists, and traitors to their country.

    • Agree: Alden
    • Replies: @Hail
    , @James Forrestal
  39. @Chris Bridges

    99.9 percent of Jews did not feel the need to spy for Stalin, though we can assume they felt the same about the Hitler crowd.

    99.9 percent of Jews did not have an opportunity to spy for Stalin, though we can’t assume they would not have if they did. A large percentage no doubt would have.

    • Agree: Alden
  40. Alfa158 says:
    @anon

    From my readings of Oppenheimer’s life, Sudoplatov is probably telling the truth . Oppenheimer refused to act as an spy, but for political reasons was perfectly OK with anyone else being a spy as long as they didn’t make it so obvious that he would have to act. And he pretty much baldly said so. His mistress who was a Soviet agent expressed frustration that she couldn’t get him to actively provide information.
    The security clearance controversy is another bit of B.S. that Oppenheimer pulled and that we have seen repeated with Brennan. I have had security clearances and they are on a strictly need to know basis. My clearance would be suspended the instant I left a job where I needed it, and could be reinstated if I needed it again at a new job. Once Oppenheimer said that he was against the development of fusion bombs and wouldn’t work on new weapons, he no longer need that clearance and pulling it should have been a routine clerical operation like cutting him his final check.
    The whole imbroglio was a case of him exercising his galactic-sized ego.
    Finally I don’t think there is any such thing as (((self-hatred))) it’s actually more like (((the rest of you people-hatred))).

    • Replies: @Geowizz
  41. Alfa158 says:
    @Hibernian

    His enthusiasm for the Bomb was entirely because he thought it would be used on Germans, and he was afraid the Germans might get one too. The history of the project shows that enthusiasm for the bomb on the part of Oppenheimer and many other scientists in the Manhattan project evaporated earlier than the Cold War. In fact the sentiment to throttle back and prevent the bombs from being used began on May 8, 1945 when it was no longer possible to use it to annihilate Germans and could only be used on Japanese. By that point however, there was already too much momentum for competing the project and then using it if needed. If I recall correctly several of the scientists and engineers at least drafted a statement calling on the project to be put on hold as soon as the Germans surrendered.

  42. @SolontoCroesus

    So: the Italian Fermi had a legalized relationship to a Jewish woman

    Pussy power.

  43. @Haha

    And for the record: Oppenhemer, Einstein and many of the other greats advocated for the abolishment of nuclear weapons as soon as WWII came to an end. How dare they, the Jewish commies, try to promote peace and human survival!

    How many years past before Israel acquired (term used loosely) nuclear weapons?

    The people of Apollo, PA are still paying the price of Jewish-led stealing of HEUranium

    https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/nuclear-vault/2016-11-02/numec-affair-did-highly-enriched-uranium-us-aid-israels-nuclear-weapons-program

    2017: Amount of nuclear waste in Parks Township [Apollo, PA] could remain unknown until 2031
    https://archive.triblive.com/local/valleynewsdispatch/12353545-74/amount-of-nuclear-waste-in-parks-township-could-remain-unknown-until-2031

    Secrecy, lack of documentation and inattention to warnings may have led the Army Corps of Engineers to grossly underestimate the amount of highly radioactive uranium in the nuclear waste dump in Parks Township.
    Estimates that the Corps’ aborted cleanup effort at the site along Route 66 near Kiskimere Road in 2011 uncovered about 30 kilograms of highly enriched uranium would mean, if accurate, that as much uranium was found in just one portion of the site as the Corps thought it would find during the entire project.
    Known as the Shallow Land Disposal Area, the dump was created in the 1960s by the Nuclear Materials and Equipment Corp. (NUMEC) behind its then-plutonium processing facility. The company also operated a uranium processing facility in nearby Apollo, which produced much of the waste buried at the dump.
    . . .
    Some government agencies have suggested, without firm evidence, that NUMEC’s founder, the late Zalman Shapiro, conspired with Israeli intelligence officials to smuggle the uranium into Israel to start a secret nuclear weapons program there.

    Shapiro lived a long and happy life in Pittsburgh, where he was head of university Hillel organizations.
    U S Senator Arlen Specter switched parties to ensure that he could remain in the US Senate, from which he ensured that Shapiro was protected.

    Mattson mentions in the video that Israelis likely had the nuclear bomb at the time of the 1967 war. In Foxbats Over Dimona, Israeli historians Ginor and Remez argue that:

    “the Six-Day War was the result of a joint Soviet-Arab gambit to provoke Israel into a preemptive attack. The authors reveal how the Soviets received a secret Israeli message indicating that Israel, despite its official ambiguity, was about to acquire nuclear weapons. Determined to destroy Israel’s nuclear program before it could produce an atomic bomb, the Soviets then began preparing for war–well before Moscow accused Israel of offensive intent, the overt trigger of the crisis.”

    It would be intriguing to crank this bit of information into the treachery of Israel’s attack on the USS Liberty. Were the US spies working with Soviet Foxbats and monitoring attempted attacks on Israel’s nuclear facilities at Dimona? Remember: Israelis had built false walls, etc., to frustrate inspections of nuke facilities demanded by JFK.

    Back to Apollo and its citizens who are still suffering from cancers:

    2018: U.S. Supreme Court ends lawsuit against Apollo nuclear fuels plant operators
    https://archive.triblive.com/local/valley-news-dispatch/u-s-supreme-court-ends-lawsuit-against-apollo-nuclear-fuels-plant-operators/

    More than two decades of legal wrangling over whether a former Apollo nuclear fuels plant caused cancers in Armstrong County has been decided by the U.S. Supreme Court.
    The country’s highest court denied hearing an appeal on Feb. 20 to reinstate lawsuits filed by about 70 Apollo-area residents alleging that radioactive emissions from the plant caused cancer.

    • Replies: @Alden
    , @JMcG
  44. @another anon

    Truer words were seldom spoken.

  45. gregor says:

    Haynes and Klehr have opined that Oppenheimer was a communist and was affiliated with the CPUSA in the late 30s and early 40s but that he had drifted away from it by 1942 and was not a Soviet spy.

    They quote this from Vassiliev’s notebooks from 1944:

    we should consider it essential to cultivate the following people: ‘Chester’ – Robert Oppenheimer, b. 1906, an Amer[ican] Jew, secret member of the fellowcountryman org[anization CPUSA] . . . In view of the special significance and importance of the work he does, he is supposedly kept under special security, and as a result the fellowcountryman organization received orders from its center to break off relations with ‘Ch.’ to avoid his exposure.

    . . . The fact that he is a fellowcountryman, as well as his friendly attitude towards our country, gives us reason to expect that his cultivation will yield positive results. (“Fellowcountryman” was a KGB term for a local Communist).

    The Soviets were definitely aware of Oppenheimer did try to recruit him but it seems far from certain that they were successful and some evidence indicating otherwise.

    Earlier in March 1943 the FBI listening device at Steve Nelson’s residence had picked up a conversation between Nelson and Weinberg. His work at the Berkeley Radiation Laboratory had allowed Weinberg to pick up a good deal of information about the progress of the bomb making project, and he wanted to deliver the information into the hands of the CPUSA and, perforce, to the Soviet Union. (Weinberg later would be recruited as a source by the KGB.) Weinberg briefed Nelson, who made notes, about what he had picked up about various highly technical (and highly secret) aspects of the atomic program. (The next day Nelson arranged a meeting with Peter Ivanov, publicly an official at the Soviet consulate in San Francisco but covertly an officer of Soviet military intelligence, GRU. The FBI surveilled the meeting a few days later and assumed that Nelson handed over his notes of what Weinberg had told him).

    In addition to Weinberg passing along to Nelson what he knew of the bomb project, the two also discussed “the professor,” and from the context this was clearly a reference to Oppenheimer. Nelson complained that “the professor” was “very much worried now and we [Communists] make him feel uncomfortable.” Weinberg agreed, and said of Oppenheimer’s political attitudes, “You won’t hardly believe the change that has taken place.” Nelson offered the opinion that “to my sorrow, his wife is influencing him in the wrong direction.”

    https://www.washingtondecoded.com/site/2012/02/jro.html

  46. Alfred says:
    @Gizmo880

    Correct.

    Let us not forget that the Americans planned to drop A-bombs on all cities of the USSR. That was their plan. It was thwarted by the Soviets (with the help of Jewish spies) catching up and making their own bombs.

    Maybe Oppenheimer saved the last bastion of Christianity.

    According to a secret document dated September 15, 1945, “the Pentagon had envisaged blowing up the Soviet Union with a coordinated nuclear attack directed against major urban areas.

    All major cities of the Soviet Union were included in the list of 66 “strategic” targets. The tables below categorize each city in terms of area in square miles and the corresponding number of atomic bombs required to annihilate and kill the inhabitants of selected urban areas.

    Six atomic bombs were to be used to destroy each of the larger cities including Moscow, Leningrad, Tashkent, Kiev, Kharkov, Odessa

    It is ironic that 3 of the 6 cities cited are currently in the Ukraine.

    204 Atomic Bombs against 66 Major Cities, US Nuclear Attack against USSR Planned During World War II

  47. Alden says:
    @anon

    Communism was a Jewish thing 1880 to 1960, like keeping a kosher kitchen or bar mitzvahs.

    Then they switched to desegregated destroyed schools, weathermen black power sexual revolution feminism, affirmative action black panthers pro black criminals gun control for legal gun owners but none for criminals guns, then pro gay, then gay marriage, now trans gender and unisex school locker rooms closing the prisons not prosecuting black criminals.

    Jews liberals and communists just can’t settle down and enjoy the results of their agitation. They have to keep going. Plus, there’s vast amounts of money to be made as a grant grifting social justice entrepreneur.

  48. awry says:
    @Alden

    That is an exaggeration, many Jews were Commies or fellow travelers, but not every one of them was a Soviet agent of course and not all of them were Commie sympathizers either, i.e. Teller was far from being one.

    • Replies: @Alden
  49. Alden says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Of course Israel stole uranium and plutonium from that Pennsylvania plant to build its bomb.

  50. Alden says:
    @Haha

    You’re a naive credulous liberal moron, a holdover from the 1930s. Idiot to believe all those communist front groups who advocated peace justice and equality for all.

    • Replies: @Haha
  51. Oppenheimer committed treason, but the Soviets getting the Bomb was probably good for world peace.

  52. padre says:

    Since McCarty era, I find testifying before Congress unreliable!

  53. Hail says: • Website
    @Carolyn Yeager

    I agree but I wouldn’t characterize them as leftists, exactly, these days. They have a mixed-ideology, but maybe it’s best seen as a worship of their own group(-power) for its own sake. The ideology of aristocracy.

    • Replies: @Carolyn Yeager
  54. MarkinLA says:
    @Alfred

    The military has “plans” for attacking everybody. That doesn’t mean a thing until they are carried out. It wasn’t the Soviet bomb that stopped them which didn’t appear until 1949.

    • Replies: @Alfred
    , @Gizmo880
  55. chris says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    My understanding was that Fermi’s mother was Jewish and that he had become a Communist in his youth in Italy.

    • Replies: @Alden
  56. DaveE says:
    @anon

    The ideology of communism is the ideology of the insect world. An ant by itself is weak and harmless, but in great numbers, acting with unity of purpose, cooperation and “teamwork”, it can destroy your house or even kill you.

    Naturally (no pun intended) these lessons have been taken to heart and studied by a weak but off-the-charts arrogant tribe who subscribe to an ideology of taking over the world and making an Ant World out of a human world.

    I think we Goyim need to get serious about learning those same lessons Mother Nature has been TRYING to teach us, lest the lowly ant succeeds in bringing the house we built to the ground, and us with it.

  57. @Alfred

    Was that a real plan or only a theoretical scenario that ministries of defense of all big countries make, whether defensive or offensive?

    • Replies: @Carolyn Yeager
  58. jsigur says:

    I think the obvious right question to ask was, “Was Oppenheimer an agent for International Jewry for if that is true, the Jew in question can work sometimes for the US and sometimes for Russia but ultimately in service to the super-ceding Jewish agenda

    • Agree: Old and grumpy
  59. @The Alarmist

    Sorry to burst your bubble. Werner Heisenberg, head of the German nuclear bomb project, was opposed to atomic weapons, and was slow-walking the project. There are reports that the Germans had already exploded a bomb in 1943, thus causing the Allied bombing of Peenemunde. Heisenberg met with Nels Bohr on a regular basis to update him. Bohr was a Jew, and ended up as part of the Manhattan Project. Perhaps that is why the late Eustace Mullins referred to it as the Jewish Hell bomb.
    Contrary to popular belief, Hitler himself was not keen on nukes, thinking that if used, there would be retaliation, which would lead to a devastated Europe. That is one reason why the project was not funded well. The military, however, were interested.

  60. jsigur says:

    what the world needs to understand is the only real war we should be worrying about is the one international Jewry is waging against all gentile nations/ When one understands this one begins to understand why European nations have been fighting each other for centuries, why Jews needed to help invent Islam to counteract Christianity ( and use goyim fighters for Jewish objectives) and to help invent Christianity to undermine pagan Rome.
    WW II was obviously a war between Jewish controlled nations and gentile controlled nations. Everything else was bullshit. That then helps explain why no one complained about Russia taking over half of Europe when a few years earlier everyone complained about Germany beating up on Poland (while Russia did likewise unnoticed)
    It also explains why US papers absolved bolshevik wrongdoing while exaggerating a much more peaceful Germay on everything thing it did

    • Agree: Alden
  61. @John Regan

    Though perhaps most remarkable of all, in terms of these conspiracies of German origin, is that he was in fact German, the son of a (very liberal) Lutheran pastor.

    The reason for the NSDAP rise in popularity was because of the KDP and people like Fuchs whose real loyalty was to the Soviet Union to spread the “revolution”. I suggest that the old analogy – a dog may be born in the stable, that doesn’t make it a horse – is apt in this matter.

    • Replies: @Alden
  62. @Mr. Anon

    They discussed Stalin’s plans to secure a place for Jews in the Soviet Union by setting up an autonomous Jewish republic in the Crimea after the war against fascism was won.[2]

    Bidobidzhan, set up in 1928, was already an autonomous Jewish republic. Any talk of Crimea would have been to re-establish Khazaria, which was absorbed by the Mongols. The Khazars escaped annihilation, because they capitulated.

  63. DaveE says:
    @Haha

    “Oppenhemer, Einstein and many of the other greats advocated for the abolishment of nuclear weapons as soon as WWII came to an end.”

    A classic example of the strategy of The Tribe, as elucidated by Noam Chomsky, of “appearing to switch sides at the last minute to avoid being blamed” or words to that effect.

  64. Gizmo880,

    My story is similar to yours. Until the end of Cold War v1 I was a very strong believer and supporter of the US and an anti-communist warrior. But in the 1990’s the world started to turn upside down.

    • Replies: @Gizmo880
  65. Alfred says:
    @MarkinLA

    Of course, it was only a plan. But some important politicians advocated activating it. Let’s not forget that bombs were dropped on Japan to warn the Soviets against occupying Japan. Japan was prostrate with no oil. The Russians had defeated their first army.

    Privately, Churchill suggested that America strike first, before it was too late. According to FBI records, he urged Sen. Styles Bridges, a conservative Republican from New Hampshire active in foreign affairs, to back a preemptory and devastating attack on Moscow. “He [Churchill] pointed out that if an atomic bomb could be dropped on the Kremlin wiping it out, it would be a very easy problem to handle the balance of Russia, which would be without direction,” Bridges told the FBI.

    Churchill urged US to ‘wipe out’ Moscow with A-bomb

    Doubtless, the “private” opinions of Churchill did reach Stalin. The USA is quite unable to keep any secret.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    , @JMcG
  66. Alfred says:
    @anon

    The Jews hated the aristocracy of Imperial Russia. They wanted the power for themselves. The current ongoing rewrite of history suggests the the Jews were oppressed in Russia and Poland. Nothing could be further from the truth. They were the rent and tax collectors of the Polish aristocracy. The Russians permitted Jews to live in the West of that country – a huge area. It was a privilege. At that time, Russian peasants could not move away from their village.

    Pale of Settlement

    Hundreds of towns and cities in Eastern Europe had Magdeburg Rights

    Jews lived under privileges that they carefully negotiated with the king or emperor. They were not subject to city jurisdiction. These privileges guaranteed that they could maintain communal autonomy, live according to their laws, and be subjected directly to the royal jurisdiction in matters concerning Jews and Christians. One of the provisions granted to Jews was that a Jew could not be made Gewährsmann, that is, he could not be compelled to tell from whom he acquired any object which had been sold or pledged to him and which was found in his possession. Other provisions frequently mentioned were a permission to sell meat to Christians, or employ Christian servants.

    Magdeburg Rights (Wikipedia)

  67. Geowizz says:
    @anon

    Perhaps Jews are inexorably drawn to communism because of the sacred Marx’s role in its development. Just my provisional notion.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  68. John Wear says:
    @Curmudgeon

    Curmudgeon,

    Werner Heisenberg met with Niels Bohr in September 1941 in Copenhagen. Heisenberg’s purpose was to see if Bohr could help him convince the world’s physicists that they reach an international agreement not to build atomic bombs during the war.

    Bohr did not support Heisenberg’s idea. This was the only time that Heisenberg and Bohr met during the war. Heisenberg did not meet with Bohr on a regular basis as claimed in your post #59.

  69. Gizmo880 says:
    @AriusArmenian

    Yep, from the 90’s on I had to give up so many of my cherished beliefs that the world did indeed ‘turn upside down’ as you said. The majority of people can’t handle having their beliefs so totally destroyed, though, so you have the circus of fake news and propaganda that permeates almost everything nowadays that keep the sheep moving along blindly.

  70. Alden says:
    @chris

    Why am I not surprised.

  71. Gizmo880 says:
    @MarkinLA

    Sure, the military has plans for almost anything, but that really isn’t the point. If you were the Soviet Union and had just seen the United Stated drop completely unnecessary A-Bombs on two Japanese cities filled with civilians for no other reason than to show the world how big their dick was, what would you think? Err on the side of caution or do whatever was necessary to defend yourself? As I said above, I hated and still hate Communism and the old Soviet Union, but the story of the United States as the light of freedom and goodness in the world is pure horseshit.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    , @byrresheim
    , @JMcG
  72. The deeper point of these ‘spies’ is missed – Quite seriously, looking at the massive evidence, nuclear weapons do not exist, they are as big of a hoax as the alleged 1968-72 ‘trips to the moon’ … They are a ‘terror hoax’, trying to substitute for the fading Jewish-created ‘eternal hell’ hoax of the Abrahamic religions

    Hiroshima and Nagasaki were, in fact, other versions of the Tokyo, Osaka or Yokohama firebombing horrors, misrepresented in order to begin this global hoax regarding ‘nuclear weapons’ … From a recent overview of why Hiroshima was not a ‘nuclear’ or ‘atomic bomb’ explosion:
    https://www.winterwatch.net/2017/08/was-hiroshima-firebombed-and-not-nuked/

    – The area destroyed in Hiroshima, was only one-fourth the size of the area destroyed in Tokyo fire-bombing with identical devastation

    – US military Major Alexander de Seversky, surveying Japanese cities shortly afterwards, found wooden-house-burned Hiroshima to show no signs at all of anything other than chemical fire-bombing, just like Tokyo, Yokohama & Osaka … central iron-steel buildings were intact, fragile objects undamaged, even flag poles still up beneath ‘ground zero’ … no spot where things had been ‘vapourised’

    – The ‘smoking gun’ proving Hiroshima was fake, is in 1945 US military records, logging 66 aeroplanes as ‘chemically fire-bombing Imabari, Japan’, close to Hiroshima, at the same date & hour as the alleged ‘atomic bomb’ … Imabari which no longer existed, having been totally destroyed in 2 previous fire-bombing raids … this was the fleet that fire-bombed Hiroshima

    [MORE]

    – German Jesuit Rev John Siemes, eye-witness in Hiroshima, documented local witnesses reporting planes spreading incendiary material

    – At the time of Hiroshima there was huge intimidation, ‘death penalty for unauthorised speaking’, suppression of Japanese & USA witnesses & involved persons … whilst allowed statements seem scripted & false-seeming

    – Photographs of Hiroshima smoke look exactly like columns of smoke from chemical fire-bombing, confirmed by Japanese witnesses who eventually did speak … in general, the ‘mushroom clouds’ eventually marketed as the ‘nuclear weapon signature’, are also from certain types of chemical explosions, as recently exploding Chinese factories have shown

    – A 1990 medical study, completing 40 years of investigation of Hiroshima & Nagasaki survivors, showed no genetic damage, as is typical of those exposed to too-high radiation

    It seems indeed that ‘nuclear weapons’ as a whole have never existed, and that he United Nations etc initiative to ‘ban nuclear weapons’ is actually a concerted effort to bury the hoax.

    The political context for the nuclear weapons scam after Hiroshima, was the USA-Moscow deal in Stalin’s later years, that Stalin would pretend to be a ‘nuclear weapons power’ too, riches & tech would be passed on to Soviet elites (as Antony Sutton, ‘Best Enemy Money Can Buy’ proved was happening); and the world would be in fear of ‘nuclear terror’ supporting big-power domination of the earth & trillions of profits for oligarchs via ‘weapons industries’. All the ‘nuclear powers’ have their reasons and motivations to continue colluding in this hoax today.

    Swedish nuclear engineer Anders Björkman, once asked to investigate ‘nuclear weapons’ for Sweden, has been showing in detail for years that nuclear weapons are impossible, fake, & have never existed (versus nuclear power, which does work).

    Recently, there has been a move to wind down the nuclear weapons hoax, with a ‘UN resolution to ban & destroy all nuclear weapons’ … a ‘great favour’ the coming one-world globalist government will do for us, putting the nuclear weapons hoax to rest. They can claim to dis-assemble all the nuclear weapons like South Africa claimed to do in the past.

    But over 74 years, all 10 alleged ‘nuclear bomb nations’ have played along, in what has been a global scam, trillions for oligarchs owning armaments industries, the ‘nuclear weapons’ scam a major tool for the big and medium powers who are allowed to claim to have them … Consider the history:

    [MORE]

    1945 – USA chemically bombs Hiroshima & Nagasaki (like Tokyo, Dresden, Hamburg…), also dumping illness-inducing radioactive rubbish. Witnesses ordered to shut up under threat of death, chemical-blast ‘mushroom clouds’ in film & photos – USA HAS NUCLEAR BOMBS

    1949 – Soviet Union accepts deal for Russian elites to get wealthy by playing along with Cold War & global nuclear terror – COMMIE RUSSIA HAS THE BOMB

    1952 – UK Brits & London financial centre don’t want to be 2nd class – UK HAS THE BOMB

    1960 – France chafes not to be 2nd class to Brits – FRANCE & DE GAULLE HAVE THE BOMB

    1964 – China upgraded to major league – COMMIE CHINA HAS THE BOMB

    1966 – Israel joins the club in time to terrorise & blackmail Arabs in 1967 & 1973 wars – JEWS HAVE THE BOMB & JEWS ARE READY TO SAMSON OPTION EVERYBODY, later ‘confirmed’ by Mordechai Vanunu to MI6-Mossad London Times, Vanunu who afterwards maybe lived on Haifa beach, not ‘in Israeli prison’ as claimed

    1974 – India accepted as big power, debasing its heritage naming its bomb programme ‘Smiling Buddha’ – INDIA HAS THE BOMB

    1979 – South Africa’s white apartheid gov gets to play – WHITE RACIST SOUTH AFRICA HAS THE BOMB READY TO KILL BLACK PEOPLE … but ‘dismantles bombs’ before Mandela & black government can find out the scam

    1998 – Pakistan becomes central player in new Western anti-Muslim theme – PAKISTANI MUSLIMS HAVE THE BOMB & OSAMA OR TERRORISTS MIGHT GET AHOLD OF IT

    2006 – North Korea, always making deals, gets to upgrade – CRAZY NORTH KOREA HAS THE BOMB

    ‘Nuclear terror’ – A greatly profitable business, & a superbly sticky piece of hoax propaganda

  73. Geowizz says:
    @Alfa158

    Agree. Jewish people appear to be more intensely tribal and distrustful of others than any ethnic group I know of. They, tragically in my view, seem largely oblivious of this trait. Some of this likely can be attributed to religious education/indoctrination e.g., bar/bat mitzvah. Of course just my observations.

    • Replies: @Hamlet's Ghost
  74. @Geowizz

    ‘Perhaps Jews are inexorably drawn to communism because of the sacred Marx’s role in its development. Just my provisional notion.’

    I would guess that the attraction is that more than any other theory, Marxism completely undermines the traditional gentile structure of society.

    In this connection, it’s perhaps not insignificant that although Israel started out as a very leftist, indeed quasi-socialist state, it’s moved inexorably to the right. If there is no gentile society to undermine in the first place, there goes Communism’s appeal?

  75. @Franklin Ryckaert

    Well, Franklin, you’re the one who is always falling back on the theoretical scenario of “Generalplan Ost” to condemn the “Nazis” of evil intentions toward the Slavs. But I notice you do not find such plans as drawn up by the Allies all that serious or alarming. I hope I can remember this the next time you bring “Ost” up.

  76. @Lot

    “ sources as the famous nuclear physicists R. Oppenheimer, E. Fermi

    It would have been interesting to have unpacked that statement a little more.

  77. @J

    To my mind these communist scientists were recruited by the US and British governments on a false prospectus. They were told that it was necessary to invent and construct an atom bomb as quickly as possible in case the Germans/Japanese got one first. The British, certainly (I don’t know about the US) had a treaty with the USSR to share technical information helpful to the war effort which they certainly did not honour, even to the extent of withholding knowledge of penicillin from them. In fact, from 1942 onwards, the Anglo-US plan was to build enough A-bombs to defeat the USSR. 204 bombs on 66 cities. Having realized that they were working on a different project than the one they thought they were, it would have been astonishing if some of them had not tried to alert the USSR to what was being prepared for them. If you call what they did “treachery” what do you call the action of the US?

  78. @The Alarmist

    The Roosevelt administration was chock-full of Communist agents who did far more to hurt the American cause than Oppenheimer, who at least had the decency to give us The Bomb first.

    What was “the American cause”?

    • Replies: @Poco
    , @The Alarmist
  79. lysias says:

    The way the U.S. abused its sole superpower status after the fall of the Soviet Union shows what a disaster it would have been for the world and even for the U.S. if we had long retained our nuclear monopoly.

  80. chris says:
    @John Wear

    another article on a related subject from today: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/historians-find-another-spy-in-the-us-atomic-bomb-project/ar-BBXcVER
    the information emerging here pretty much confirms what many people knew, namely that Los Alamos was like a sieve.

  81. headrick says:
    @anon

    Communists were of two stripes, and they hated one another. 1) was international Jewish communists- led by and called trotskites. They wanted a world movement.
    The second was socialism “one country at a time”, and they were called Stalinists. They were the working man socialists, wobblies etc, I went to Univ of Wis in the 1960, and both kinds of communists has opposite card tables in the Rathskeller, and they yelled at one another, out ran – “Trotskyite!” as if it were a swear ward. back came “Stalanist”. Jews were the majority in both groups, but the distinction with little difference rang out. Out in the corner, was a card table with literature, not visited , for Young Americans for Freedom YAF. Don’t know if they still exist, but they were close to politically invisible. anyway. So you have the labor union/ ‘workers of the world’ IWW socialists: the Stalanists. and the Intellectual Comintern types: the Trotskites. A small town kid wondered what the hell was the big deal difference, but the both groups, NY Jews, certainly thought there was one. Both groups were more or less loyal to Russia but when Stalin turned on Trotsky, differences arose immediately. Stalanists held true to Russia. This maybe was a US Jewish Leftie thing, because other Jews I have known not of that stripe had no idea what I was talking about.

    • Replies: @Daniel Rich
  82. Lol says:

    Considering the US plans to nuclear strike central Europe in the case of Soviet advance before the ussr got the nuke as well, the beliefs of the scientists were completely justified and their treason made nuclear weapons unusable.

  83. But with Sudoplatov’s information we can say for certain that Oppenheimer did in fact knowingly supply classified information on the atom bomb to the Soviet Union.

    However, the weight of the evidence currently indicates that Robert Oppenheimer knowingly passed secrets of the Manhattan project to Soviet agents.

    Yeah of course. And this is largely true as well:

    None of the Western scientists who provided atomic secrets to the Soviet Union were controlled agents in the sense that they were paid or had signed recruitment contracts.

    the scientists saw themselves as a new breed of superstatesmen whose mandate transcended national boundaries

    Seeing them as “Soviet agents” is like seeing Moscow rather than New York as the center of world Communism the early 20th century — you have to step back a little farther.

    Sure, Oppenheimer was a committed commie — but he, like the rest of the atomic traitors, was more committed to… rootless cosmopolitanism than to the Soviet Union, or even to Communism per se.

    Seeing them as “Soviet agents” is like seeing Moscow rather than New York as the center of world Communism the early 20th century — you have to step back a little farther to get the big picture.

    The (((Baruch Plan))) to place nuclear weapons/ nuclear technology under the control of a proposed world government might also be relevant here.

    As well as the related Acheson-Lilienthal report:

    The so-called Acheson-Lilienthal report, written in large part by the committee’s chief scientific consult, Robert Oppenheimer, called for the creation of the Atomic Development Authority to oversee the mining and use of fissile materials, the operation of all nuclear facilities that could produce weaponry, and the right to dispense licenses to those countries wishing to pursue peaceful nuclear research.

    Some argue that that Stalin’s rejection of the Baruch Plan was a key factor in the genesis of the Cold War.

  84. Haha says:
    @Alden

    Please don’t insult me by calling me a liberal. I am old-school conservative who happens to believe in, and hope for, human survival. Kennedy doing a deal with the Soviets averted nuclear war: did that make Kennedy a commie? Many of the deep state fanatics did, and we know where that led us. If we start mocking and insulting people like Oppenheimer, Einstein and Newton, then we will be on the road to barbarism.

    • Replies: @Alden
  85. Wally says:
    @Alden

    said:
    “It’s a wonder FDR didn’t invite Stalin’s government to rule the USA during his time in office.”

    Oh but he did.

    Roosevelt Conspired to Start World War II in Europe: http://www.unz.com/article/roosevelt-conspired-to-start-world-war-ii-in-europe
    New Documents Show: Roosevelt colluded with Stalin,: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11013&p=83910&hilit=Roosevelt+colluded+with+Stalin#p83910
    The Soviet Union Conspired with Roosevelt to Foment World War II and Infiltrate the U.S. Government, By John Wear: https://codoh.com/library/document/6807/?lang=en
    exc.:

    These spies, plus the hundreds in other U.S. agencies at the time, including the military and OSS, permeated the administration in Washington, and, ultimately, the White House, surrounding FDR. He was basically in the Soviets’ pocket. He admired Stalin, sought his favor. Right or wrong, he thought the Soviet Union indispensable in the war, crucial to bringing world peace after it, and he wanted the Soviets handled with kid gloves. FDR was star struck. The Russians hardly could have done better if he was a Soviet spy.[18]

    The opening of the Soviet archives in 1995 revealed that more than 300 communist members or supporters had infiltrated the American government. Working in Lend-Lease, the Treasury Department, the State Department, the office of the president, the office of the vice president, and even American intelligence operations, these agents constantly tried to shift U.S. policy in a pro-Soviet direction. During World War II several of these Soviet agents were well positioned to influence American policy. Especially at the Tehran and Yalta meetings toward the end of World War II, the Soviet spies were able to influence Roosevelt to make huge concessions to the Soviet Union.[19]

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @Alden
  86. Central bankers have ruledl the world since WW I. Seems in practice communism, fascism, and crony capitalism are all corporate socialism. So what’s the big deal if Oppenheimer was a Soviet spy? Team international banker wanted a nuclear arms race. Presumably Robert, or whoever, was just being a good boy in catching the Soviets up to speed.

  87. @JOHN CHUCKMAN

    You have read several major biographies of Oppenheimer! Amazing. I don’t disbelieve you but that has to !make you a rare bird indeed. What one wonders was/is your vocation in life.

    One of the valid points you raise is about collegiality. If you have been. told the medical secrets of the quite great and not so good in public life merely because medical people gossip or have been party to one lawyer”s indiscreet gossip about a client with another you know these things aren”t simple.

  88. Wally says:
    @TheBAG

    But you really mean that you want to thank Jew Communism for killing millions … which they actually did do.

    • Replies: @TheBAG
  89. @Carolyn Yeager

    What we’ve just witnessed in the House Intelligence Committee hearings, and in fact ever since Donald Trump began running for president, is this same breed of (leftist) superstatesmen who believe they must transcend national boundaries. In other words, internationalists, and traitors to their country.

    The Jewish Daily Forward appears to agree with your take that internationalists are heavily overrepresented among the major players in the current coup attempt. But Haaaretz claims it’s just a canard — or perhaps a trope. Though Mr. Shalev at Haaretz seems to have missed that Lev Parnas and Igor Furman, Rudy Giuliani’s buddies, are “internationalists” as well, so I’m not sure we should put much trust in his fact-checking capabilities…

  90. @Wally

    It is easy to forget how many earnest people were Communists in the years before 1950 but, equally it at least as likely that their anti-American influence should be overestimated. Consider how incompetent Soviet intelligence was on the biggest issue of all – catching Stalin unawares or unbelieving before Barbarossa.

  91. Alden says:
    @Haha

    I survived the communists weathermen black panthers and other liberals and do gooder front groups of Berkeley and San Francisco.

    Liberals are idiots who believe they are doing good but are actually doing evil by joining all the liberal front groups. Einstein was a plagiarist. Newton was not a modern communist front do gooder. Oppenheimer was just another Jewish commie traitor no matter what he claimed about working for peace. And people who believe these extraordinarily evil leftists are doing good are just plain ignorant and naive.

  92. TheBAG says:
    @Wally

    I want to thank the Jews for facilitating the proliferation of nuclear weapons that has effectively prevented nuclear weapons being used because it would be MAD to do so.

    • Replies: @Wally
  93. Alden says:
    @Wally

    Thanks Wally. FDR’s assistant of the treasury, another Jew commie, Harry Dexter White sent the formula for the different colors of ink, a ton of the Crane company USD currency paper and original authentic plates for all USD denominations to Russia.

    Only the northern labor unions and southern KKK prevented communist spy Henry Wallace from being VP again for FDR’s 4th term and managed to out maneuver the Jews and intellectuals and put in Truman as VP for the election if 1944.

    FDR was dying of heart disease and it was obvious to every Dr and nurse who saw him in the newsreels. Had the Democrat Jews and intellectuals prevailed we’d have had a communist agent as President as well as thousands of communist agents in federal offices when FDR died in 1945.

    That nominating convention if 1944 must be why Jews and liberals hate deplorable labor union members and southerners to this day.

    Henry Wallace, another communist agent masquerading as a do gooder like Oppenheimer Ted Hall Greenglass and the rest. “ We think the only way to prevent the death of all mankind by nuclear war is to turn traitor and give the atom bomb to the evil empire. “. What a crock

    How can people be so stupid and naive to believe all these do gooder lies? “ We want to help black criminals by keeping them out of prison”.

    Translation; we really want to give them permission to murder assault with GBI and mayhem, disable, rape rob and shoplift with impunity and thus terrorize the White population, destroy the retail sector thru shoplifting and turn every American city into Detroit Atlanta St Louis Flint Camden etc.

    FYI, the parents of Carl Bernstein of Watergate fame were 2 of the communist agent federal employees Truman got rid of as soon as he learned the extent of communism in the federal work force.

    Nixon obeyed every anti White order from Jewish commies and soon as his orders were in effect they revenged themselves for his 1940s work exposing them as Soviet agents.

    In the last 60 years virtually every do gooder cause has resulted in evil. School desegregation/destruction. Help the sweet poor pathetic little black children by sending them to White schools to beat rape and abuse White students.

    Fair Housing move blacks into good neighborhoods and watch those neighborhoods destruct.

    Environmentalism; don’t clear fallen down trees fallen branches and flammable resin filled dead brush and grass because it’s offensive to Mother Gaia. Plus a million years ago there were no humans in America to clear dead brush. Results of that do gooder cause? Horrendous forest fires every year due entirely to the accumulation of resin and creosote filled dead brush and trees.

    Except for the money raised for polio vaccine research, I can’t think of one do gooder liberal cause in my lifetime that hasn’t caused irreparable harm to America and American Whites.

  94. Alden says:
    @TheBAG

    Another idiot naive credulous liberal. I could see through liberal lies and how they masquerade as do gooders better when I was 14 than you can as an adult.

  95. “Sudplatov realized that the scientists saw themselves as a new breed of superstatesmen whose mandate transcended national boundaries; he and his officers exploited this hubris.”

    40 years ago conservative philosopher William Earle argued that lionizing people like Ellsberg would set a dangerous precedent in which bureaucrats who disagreed with policy, instead of resigning, would remain and secretly work against it. Since then we’ve had “heroes” the likes of Deep Throat and Karen Silkwood, and now we see the results: bugmen like Vindman setting themselves up to change foreign policy to match their own opinions. This culture of “whistleblowing” has to be stopped.

    • Replies: @Alden
  96. @Alden

    “Of course he was a soviet agent, like every other Jew.”

    Fixed it for you.

  97. @Lot

    Whether or not this is true, and whether or not it applies to any or all of them, one narrative goes they weren’t spies as much as they were attempting to ensure a worldwide balance of power. From Oppenheimer’s background and associates, seems highly likely he was pro Soviet, pro YKW. (If there was a distinction.) Fermi, if he played a part, more likely was in the aforementioned category—not that that justifies that sort of behavior, of course.

  98. Seraphim says:
    @Adelaar

    You put the finger in the wound. His ‘Communism’ was a smoke screen. The Oppenheimers were not ‘some Jews’.
    Consider only these facts as an appetizer:
    “Samuel Oppenheimer (born June 21, 1630, Heidelberg – May 3, 1703, Vienna) was an Ashkenazi Jewish banker, imperial court diplomat, factor, and military supplier for the Holy Roman Emperor. He enjoyed the special favor of Emperor Leopold I, to whom he advanced considerable sums of money for the Great Turkish War… Although the Jews had been recently expelled from Vienna in 1670, the emperor permitted Oppenheimer to settle there, together with his “Gesinde”, his followers, who included a number of Jewish families. He even received the privilege of building a mansion in the heart of Vienna. He was appointed “Oberfaktor” and court Jew… Oppenheimer took steps to suppress the anti-Semitic “Entdecktes Judenthum (Judaism Unmasked)” treatise by spending large sums of money to win the court and the Jesuits to the side of the Jews. As a result, an imperial edict was issued forbidding circulation of the author, Eisenmenger’s, work. Oppenheimer was employed also by the emperor in political missions which were often of a delicate nature…
    One of Oppenheimer’s sons, Simon Wolf Oppenheimer, established a banking house in Hanover. Simon Wolff’s son, Jakob Wolf Oppenheimer continued the family banking house. It was there, from 1757 to 1763, that Mayer Amschel Rothschild apprenticed and learned the banking business that would become synonymous with that family name. Oppenheimer’s descendants include the composer Felix Mendelssohn…

    “Joseph Süß Oppenheimer (1698? – February 4, 1738) was a German Jewish banker and court Jew for Duke Karl Alexander of Württemberg in Stuttgart… Oppenheimer was born in Heidelberg to a Jewish tax collector and his wife. The father died early, and the exact whereabouts of Joseph Süss in the following years are not certain. By the 1720s, however, Oppenheimer was already working as a court Jew in Mannheim, Darmstadt, and finally Frankfurt am Main, where he was introduced to Karl Alexander, the future Duke of Württemberg, in 1732. When Karl Alexander ascended the throne in the following year, Oppenheimer served as his chief financial adviser…When his protector, Karl Alexander, suddenly died on March 12, 1737, Oppenheimer was arrested and accused of various crimes, including fraud, embezzlement, treason, lecherous relations with various women, and accepting bribes… After the heavily publicized trial, Oppenheimer was sentenced to death, without naming any specific crime. When his jailers asked that he convert to Christianity, he refused. Joseph Süß Oppenheimer was led to the gallows on February 4, 1738, and given a final chance to convert to Christianity, which he refused to do. He was throttled,[2] with his last words reportedly being the Jewish prayer, “Hear, O Israel: the Lord is our God, the Lord is one”.

    If you have the patience you may consult their genealogical tree (nothing secret, is on-line). They were claiming descendance from King David, no less. That means Jewish elite of elites.
    They were related also with the Loeb family (of the banking cartel of Kuhn, Loeb, Schiff, Warburg who graciously lend money to Trotsky and Lenin).
    You will notice also that the supposed handlers of J.R. Oppenheimer were Grigori Kheifetz and Elizaveta ‘Zoya’ Yulyevna Zarubina (aka. Ester Rosenzweig). Who was handling whom? A funny thought occurred to me: what if the flow of information about the atomic bomb was the other way round? Russians were working on it since 1939.
    And what all that had to do with the plan of ‘California in Crimea’?

    • Replies: @Adelaar
  99. MarkinLA says:
    @Gizmo880

    the United Stated drop completely unnecessary A-Bombs on two Japanese cities filled with civilians

    We need to stop this nonsense. There were military and political reasons to drop the bomb. The Japanese were heavily reinforcing the southern Japanese home island where the invasion was to take place. An amphibious invasion was no certain thing, especially when Japan was practicing human wave attacks against the invasion. Truman could not afford extremely high casualties and have the public find out they could have been prevented. The Japanese were not saints and treated the people they conquered and POVs brutally. They would have used the A bomb if they had the chance.

  100. MarkinLA says:
    @Alfred

    The USSR had no real way to occupy Japan. They didn’t have the naval forces to do so and the US was already there.

    Obviously, nobody listened to Churchill or Le May when he later campaigned for it.

    • Disagree: Haxo Angmark, houston 1992
  101. MarkinLA says:
    @Curmudgeon

    From what I have seen the British held the German scientists in relatively mild captivity but had every room bugged. There was never any talk of Germany having built a bomb and they were somewhat surprised when it was announced.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/hitlers-top-nuclear-scientists-dubbed-7734885

  102. @another anon

    You’d be surprised how many people cannot understand sarcasm.

  103. @Wizard of Oz

    It was not a failure of Soviet intelligence: it forewarned Stalin many times. It was Stalin’s personal failure to listen to people who told him what he needed to know, rather than what he wanted to hear.

  104. Icy Blast says:
    @Mr. Anon

    Your can’t be serious.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
  105. @Geowizz

    Compare the symptoms of a sociopath with the average Jew and you’ll be hard-pressed to see much difference. Like sociopaths, most leading Jews never accept blame, always project their faults onto their victims and are pathological liars. It’s uncanny.

    Centuries of inbreeding and agitation have created a sociopathic tribe wrapped under the guise of religion.

    • Replies: @anarchyst
  106. @Wizard of Oz

    Viktor Suvorov’s works fairly well gut the silly idea that Stalin was caught unawares before Barbarossa. It was more a race to deliver the first strike that Stalin lost.

    • Agree: John Wear
    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @Avery
  107. @Hamlet's Ghost

    Self-proclaimed “Suvorov” was a liar in everything, including his name. His real last name is Rezun.

    • Replies: @Hamlet's Ghost
  108. Oppenheimer an ideological communist and, even after the MP began, member of a secret CP cell?

    yes.

    Oppenheimer an outright Soviet agent? Maybe, probably, but I’m not yet sure. This is why:

    shortly before the 1st A-bomb was dropped on Japan (the Jews had built it to be dropped on Germans, but Germany surrendered before it was ready) the Jew Fermi circulated a letter for signatures at Los Alamos urging non-use against Japan. I had always assumed that Oppenheimer, as a communist Jew, had co-signed with Fermi….and thus against the anti-Red Teller (also a Jew) who advocated use. If Oppenheimer had been an active agent of the Soviet Union (then already invading and seizing the northern islands of Japan, months ahead of any US invasion of Honshu/Kyushu) he would certainly have had and obeyed instructions from Moscow to lobby against usage: so as to prevent a quick Japanese surrender that would in turn stop the ongoing Red seizure of Japan. So I looked into the issue…

    …and discovered that in fact Oppenheimer sided with Teller against Fermi and advocated immediate use against Japan.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    , @Alden
    , @Dan Hayes
  109. Avery says:
    @Alfred

    Maybe people who know these things can elaborate:

    Did the US have 204 atomic bombs in 1945? or would have in 1946?
    Doesn’t it take a lot of time to enrich enough material for an atomic bomb (…in those days.)

    Plus, bombs had to be delivered by long range bombers and Soviets at the time had a competent AF, and their anti-air defenses were very good (still are). So not sure how many of those planned 204 atomic bombs would have reached their targets. Stalin would certainly have found out about the bombing raid before it began through his spy network, and would be ready.

    Also, all throughout the war US public was told USSR is our ally in the fight against Nazism, and it would be very hard to explain a massive atomic attack that killed millions of (Soviet) civilians. Not sure if US politicians would allow (some in) US military to actually carry out their fantasy.

    And finally: certainly the shock value cannot be underestimated, but say 100 bombs got through and exploded on target, killing ~20-30 million Soviet civilians. It is doubtful that Soviet people or leadership would be cowed into submitting to US (after having experienced and fought off the Nazis). So I am not sure what the purpose of such an attack was.

    • Agree: Alden
    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @turtle
  110. @MarkinLA

    There was no military reason to commit these crimes of war.

    Ground zero for the Nagasaki bomb test was the largest christian church in Asia.

    • Agree: Hibernian, WHAT
  111. Ian Smith says:

    I’m surprised at how many people here think that Joseph…Stalin… getting the bomb was a good thing!

  112. Avery says:
    @Hamlet's Ghost

    “Victor Suvorov” (aka Vladimir Bogdanovich Rezun ) is a disgruntled traitor to his homeland (USSR). He is a former GRU officer, on the payroll of British intelligence, who defected to the British.

    He has an ax to grind and earn his keep by singing for his paymasters, who to this day resent the fact that it was the Red Army which crushed the mighty Wehrmacht, and not the, you know, the mighty, fearless ‘British lion’.

    Col (ret) David Glantz also has written books about WW2 and the Eastern Front in particular.
    His is an American.
    He has no ax to grind.
    He is a professional historian.

    There are too many inconsistencies in the Stalin-first-strike theory to believe the silly idea that Stalin had plans to strike Nazi Germany first.

  113. Hibernian says:
    @Haxo Angmark

    Could have been trying to avoid suspicion.

  114. @Avery

    Rather than impugn his motives, why not just read his works and make a decision for yourself. Ron Unz wrote about it in his American Pravda series.

  115. Gizmo880 says:
    @MarkinLA

    I used to think that as well up until about 15 years ago when I read an excellent article that I unfortunately did not save and now cannot find. I had no idea that so many high ranking military and political persons were completely opposed to the dropping of the bomb and did not think it was justified. I am not talking about revisionist history, these were very powerful and knowledgeable people who were there at the time and expressed there opinions. From Eisenhower, Nimitz, MacCarthur, General Lemay, Admiral Leahy, and many others, there is a long list of very knowledgeable people who thought that it was not justified at all to drop the bombs. Of course, you may think that all of them were wrong, but after further research after learning of the strong opposition to the dropping of the bomb, I have completely changed my mind. At the very least, the dropping of the bomb on civilian targets was inexcusable imo.

    I can’t find the article that changed my mind, but here are a few that have some quotes from people who were there at the time.

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-real-reason-america-used-nuclear-weapons-against-japan-it-was-not-to-end-the-war-or-save-lives/5308192

    https://www.commondreams.org/views06/0806-25.htm

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2015/08/08/we_didnt_have_to_drop_the_bomb_127709.html

    • Replies: @Poco
    , @Walter
  116. @AnonFromTN

    Mark Twain’s real name was Samuel Clemens. Does having a pen name make one a liar now?

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @AnonFromTN
  117. Seraphim says:

    Soviet Union occupied the Kuril Islands and South Sakhalin only in August-September 1945. North Sakhalin was always Russian territory (since 1905).
    Americans dropped the bomb expecting an immediate surrender of Japan which would have prevented the Soviet intervention. Certainly the Russians knew it and that’s why they invaded on the 8th of August, before the second bomb. It is doubtful that they planned to invade the main islands. Manchuria and Korea was enough. And they prevented the surrender of the Kwantung Army to the Americans.

  118. bjondo says:

    Another agent (one of many in attendance),
    Henry “Deep Throat” Kissinger,
    at 2019 Parasite’s Ball, NYC.

    Anyone know the fitness
    program favored by DT?

    Pics 1, 12, 13, head turners.

    5ds

    • Replies: @bjondo
  119. TRM says:

    I highly recommend “Special Tasks”. It shows you something you won’t get from regular history. It shows you the losers side. The winners always write history but in this one book you get a real good look at the 1925-55 era of the Soviet Union from their side.

    It might not all be accurate but great reading.

  120. Mr. Anon says:
    @John Wear

    Oppenheimer was, often, an arrogant man. It is not surprising that he would lie to security people. It’s been a while since I read about him, but my impression from the biographies I read was that he was certainly a lefty and a communist sympathizer, in a very fashionable 1930s kind of way, but eventually became just a liberal new-dealer. And that he came to mistrust the Soviet Union. The fact that he opposed the H-bomb might be due to guilt at having developed such a terrible weapon. Other scientists opposed the H-bomb too, including many who have never been suspected of being Soviet agents. Many military men were wary of getting into a nuclear arms race too.

    While one cannot rule out the possibility that Oppenheimer was a Soviet agent, I’ve never seen any evidence to that effect, other than the testimony of Sudoplatov, and that does not seem reliable.

  121. Mr. Anon says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    I don’t know how to reply to raving.

    Edward Teller had a jewish wife too. He lobbied for the H-bomb, was instrumental in its development, and testified against Oppenheimer.

    • Agree: houston 1992
    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  122. @Avery

    Is it not clear that the Soviet Union was going to attack Germany and Germany (obviously) was making plans to attack the Soviet Union? It was only a question of who was ready first according to the respective criteria of Hitler and Stalin and their precise objectives.

    There is surely no question that Stalin was warned about Barbarossa from many sources with his florid denunciations of those who peddled intentionally or naively misleading information being too numerous and well known to ignore.

    Is there any mystery left but why he was so sure Hitler wouldn’t attack when he did, and why, anyway, his dispostions left the Soviet Union so vulnerable? My amateur bet is on his believing Hitler would avoid a two front war and also on his noting Hitler’s economic measires designed to keep the home front happy.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @anon
    , @Wally
  123. @Hamlet's Ghost

    That’s as good as conceding defeat if you are trying that on as a response to someone who is asserting that Suvorov was a liar and not asserting that use of a pseudonym was a main reason for disbelieving him.

  124. Was Oppenheimer a traitor. Definitely yes. But, so was the entire Roosevelt White House. It was crawling with them, and they were all Jews.
    Check it out. Read Major Jordan’s Diaries, they’re available in PDF on line … no charge.
    the entire operation to get Russia the nuclear plans from Los Alamos was a freshly immigrated Eastern european Jewish plot, out of New York City.

    • Replies: @Alden
  125. @Wizard of Oz

    He doesn’t offer anything else to back up his honk. I urge you to read it again.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  126. @Avery

    ‘Did the US have 204 atomic bombs in 1945? or would have in 1946?’

    Not exactly. We had four in 1945: used one as a test, dropped two on Japan, and had one left that we didn’t drop.

    As I recall, at some point (1947?) we had six built, with material for two more.

    No, we did not have 204 atomic bombs. In fact, it wasn’t until that Soviet code clerk defected in Canada that we realized that there was a war on.

  127. @Wizard of Oz

    ‘…Is there any mystery left but why he was so sure Hitler wouldn’t attack when he did, and why, anyway, his dispostions left the Soviet Union so vulnerable? My amateur bet is on his believing Hitler would avoid a two front war and also on his noting Hitler’s economic measires designed to keep the home front happy.’

    One of the more intelligent discussions of this I’ve read pointed out that up to then, both Hitler and Stalin had preceded their aggressive moves with a series of demands, culminating either in the capitulation of the target, or, eventually, war. This described Hitler’s seizures of Austria and Czechoslovakia, his annexation of Memel, and the lead up to war with Poland. It also described Stalin’s war with Finland and his annexations of the Baltic States and Bessarabia and Moldavia.

    So, while Stalin suspected Hitler would eventually attack him, he anticipated a prelude of escalating demands, and, given his need to reorganize and rearm, didn’t want to precipitate matters. As long as Hitler was silent, he may have calculated the danger wasn’t immediate.

    Such, at any rate, is one hypothesis.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  128. Poco says:
    @foolisholdman

    To destroy Germans and socialism. To make the world safe for usury, I mean democracy. I think I’ll research usury in the Soviet Union.

  129. @headrick

    And the man who’d forgotten to bring his glasses to campus, read from a paper and yelled, “Trotskikes!”

  130. turtle says:
    @Avery

    Did the US have 204 atomic bombs in 1945? or would have in 1946?

    No, and no.

    Didn’t it take a lot of time to enrich enough material for an atomic bomb?

    Yes.

    bombs had to be delivered by long range bombers

    B-29 was the best U.S. capability until development of the B-36.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convair_B-36_Peacemaker

    The B-36 was the first bomber capable of delivering any of the nuclear weapons in the U.S. arsenal from inside its four bomb bays without aircraft modifications. With a range of 10,000 mi (16,000 km) and a maximum payload of 87,200 lb (39,600 kg), the B-36 was capable of intercontinental flight without refuelling.

    Entering service in 1948, the B-36 was the primary nuclear weapons delivery vehicle of Strategic Air Command (SAC) until it was replaced by the jet-powered Boeing B-52 Stratofortress beginning in 1955.

    After the establishment of an independent United States Air Force in 1947, the beginning in earnest of the Cold War with the 1948 Berlin Airlift, and the 1949 atmospheric test of the first Soviet atomic bomb, American military planners sought bombers capable of delivering the very large and heavy first-generation atomic bombs.

    The B-36 was the only American aircraft with the range and payload to carry such bombs from airfields on American soil to targets in the USSR.

  131. Poco says:
    @Haha

    If Oppenheimer had known beforehand that the bomb would not be dropped on Germany he would have done his best to scuttle the project and send the correct info to the Soviet Union.
    Had he and his helpers been working on the project in the USSR instead of the USA he would have never shared it so altruistically with the USA as he did with the USSR. Bank on it.

  132. Poco says:
    @Haha

    Are you sure about that? Somehow Israel ended up with nuclear weapons. I suspect it was a case similar to borders. Borders for you bad, borders for me good.

  133. Poco says:
    @Gizmo880

    Japan surrendered after Nagasaki. No invasion required. However, it could be argued that the US should have been a member of the AXIS powers. It certainly looks that way now.

  134. @MarkinLA

    …especially when Japan was practicing human wave attacks against the invasion.

    Perhaps you should add to the above the fact that these ‘human waves’ were armed with bamboo sticks…?

    Having visited both Hiroshima and Nagasaki, I can’t find and/or defend any reason why huge amounts of civilians have to die in military conflicts. Before we visited the former Bank of Japan in Hiroshima, the misses and I walked through a park with a large pond in it.

    Inside the bank [in the empty vaults] are drawings of survivors. One drawing nearly ripped my heart out. A drawing of the pond/park we just passed through, completely surrounded by people lying on their stomachs, drinking the water.

    The US/Allies should have fallen back on Commodore Perry’s Gunboat policy, and given a demonstration of what devastation these new war porn toys would bring about.

    Is it ‘coincidence’ the US/Allies dropped an uranium gun-type bomb (“Little Boy”) on Hiroshima and a plutonium implosion bomb (“Fat Man”) on Nagasaki 3 days later?

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    , @MarkinLA
  135. @Chris Bridges

    “Allow me to point out, to those who bring up the “He did it because he was Jewish and was afraid of Nazi’s”, that 99.9 percent of Jews did not feel the need to spy for Stalin”

    Yeah, I’d be more convinced if the list of suspected communist spies in the USA didn’t look like a bar mitzvah invite or synagogue attendee sheet. Communism was widely hailed as a Jewish movement by many, including Rabbi Stephen Wise and Winston Churchill.

    • Replies: @Alden
  136. @MarkinLA

    “We need to stop this nonsense. There were military and political reasons to drop the bomb. ”

    Japan is composed of islands. With no natural sources of rubber, tin, etc. If the Germans allegedly brought the UK to its knees by means of naval blockade, the same tactic could have been used on the Japanese. Which is it?

    An island with no resources to construct warfighting equipment is not a threat.

  137. anon[194] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    The evidence is that Hitler became aware of the huge Soviet buildup on his borders, came to the obvious conclusion, and attacked, with the idea of giving Germany 3 or 4 years to make peace with the British.
    Did Churchill know that Stalin was about to attack?
    The subsequent 31/2 years of saturation bombing of German civilians suggests that he wasn’t averse to the prospect.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  138. @Wizard of Oz

    True I think I have to concede but I somehow expect he is capable of more and hope he provides it.

  139. @Colin Wright

    I think I can sound now loke quite a well informed amateur, though I will solemnly opine that it doesn’t explain wht Stalin took so little precaution against being wrong and was so careless in his dispositions. But that may be as fruitless as asking how Stalin could have taken the risk of killing so many officers not ling before.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  140. @Mr. Anon

    I don’t know how to reply to raving.

    Tranquilizer darts?
    Black Friday deal on strait jackets?

    Lot wrote @ #4, “so Fermi’s a spy too?” based on Wear linking Fermi to Oppenheimer.

    One motivation for Oppenheimer (perhaps) having given the bomb to the Soviets was that he was Communist; another, that he was Jewish: both were eager to drop a nuclear bomb on Germany.

    Fermi had similar relationships — to Communism and to Jewish preferences.

    Edward Teller — apparently similar relationships and preferences.

    Seems to have been all the rave.

  141. @anon

    “The evidence is” etc. Wherw do yoy find that evidence?

    I am not sure that I understand the logic of your last two sentences. If the British bombing (and what about American bombing?) could have been properly characterised as “saturation bombing of civilians” instead of (in large measure) area bombing – rather than Dam Buster type operations – which was aimed with low percentage success at German war production it would hardly have made the very substantial contribution of diverting 70 per cent of German air defences to countering RAF and USAF bombing of Germany.

  142. anarchyst says:
    @Hamlet's Ghost

    It’s not only inbreeding, but the jewish practice of “male genital mutilation” (circumcision) that is also part of the “problem”.

    You see, after the dirty “mohel” completes the mutilation, he then fellates the jewish male infant, transmitting his STDs and venereal diseases to the infant.

    As many STDs and venereal diseases have long gestation periods, quite often not manifesting their symptoms and damage until adulthood, it is easy to see why jews are so mentally “twisted”.

  143. Walter says:

    Some may base their reactions to the article and the fair thesis that Opie wuzaspy on not-true a-priori assumptions.

    What sort?

    The article implies that were were nuclear secrets…is that so?

    There was no real nuclear secret. The bomb was obvious. Szilard patented the first design well before the war. There were very significant engineering problems – like isotope testing and separation, modeling for implosion, etc…but that was just a lot of hard work. Which did at one point, provide a reason not to “do it”. However, once the war got going…thus forming a secret Thucydides Trap…it got going…and the “secret” that it actually could be done – that was The nuclear “secret” – become brutally public.

    Groves told (I think it was Compton) at dinner up on the Mesa in March of 1944 that the bomb was “to be used on Russia” (Alperovitz)

    That’s obviously a criminal intent, as Russia was an allied with the US and also treasonous disloyalty on Groves’ part…FDR was not yet dead…who was setting policy in secret?

    I think these and related facts permit a cogent line of reasoning that Opie was the loyal man, and Groves and his Atlantist spies and agents were in league with those fine people who financed and controlled Winnie…and who were delighted to control Truman and bring us the cold war while they planned a massive nuclear attack on the USSR…

    If “Joe 1” had not been built they’d a done murdered like Dresden hundreds of Soviet cities and most of the Soviet people… these plans are public knowledge.

    The “nuclear winter” that would have enveloped the Northern Hemisphere probably would have killed our parents in the US, and most Chinese and Europeans.

  144. @Hamlet's Ghost

    Mark Twain’s real name was Samuel Clemens. Does having a pen name make one a liar now?

    No. But being a liar does.

  145. Che Guava says:

    He sure has a .giganthic shnozz. No wonder his people are now the world leaders in rhino-plastic surgery.

    … also made a ridiculous statement compariing himself to the Hindu godess after the ‘Trinity’ test at Los Alamos.

    Why was it assigned that name?

    Of course, the Warsciowsky’s used it for a female character in their rip-off of Dark City, titled The Matrix

    One must suspect some degree of crypsis.

    Jews are not masters of physics, or of engineering, which is why they have to steal, their weapons programmes as good examples.

    Things like big particle accelerators and new forms of astronomical observation, Jews have just about no role in development, but they sure boost each other to interpretation and management. It is sick.

    Many other commenters in this thead are making good points, but one must always keep in mind that the true towering figures of physics, until the twentieth century, were mainly German, British, French, and less so, Polish and Italian. Also, of 20th century, Japanese researchers, too.

    I would go a little further, I am sticking to saying ‘the stupid Olympics’, but to avoid suffering it is not possible. One fun point, some inner city buses have LEDs in mint green, light blue, white, more.

  146. The Article is far too kind to General Groves. He’s the idiot who hired Oppenheimer, and helped “Oppie” in his battles with Army Intelligence and the FBI. When Frank Oppenheimer was caught talking to a Soviet Spy, Groves helped “Oppie” cover it up by lying to the FBI about it. Groves constantly agreed with Oppenheimer’s claim that “Knowledge had to be shared” and fought against any compartmentalization for security reasons.

    Groves was your typical Aspberger Engineer. A useful idiot. All that mattered was getting the project done – on time. Who cares about all that communism stuff? That’s just “stupid”. He even defended Oppie’s behavior after the War, because “Oppie” was his friend. Its unfortunate that Ernest Lawrence wasn’t put in charge.

  147. ΑΖ says:

    I am convinced that he handed over vital information to the Rosenbergs/Fuchs. To be honest I would have done the same. The information was transferred to Isaac Zeldovich in Soviet Union. ALL OF THEM WERE JEWS !!!!!! There should have never existed a monopoly of A. bomb. It would too tempting knowing the kind of animal the human being is.

    • Replies: @Che Guava
    , @Walter
  148. Wally says:
    @TheBAG

    – Tell that to the millions of innocents that the Communists killed because the USSR was protected by nuclear weapons.

    – While the US has been condemned for its needless wars, Marxists continue to shield the horrific crimes of the USSR.

  149. Wally says:
    @Chris Bridges

    Except that Soviet Communism was in fact a Jew thing.

    Spy on their own movement? LOL

  150. Wally says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    said:
    “Is it not clear that the Soviet Union was going to attack Germany ..”

    – You obviously don’t get out much.

    – Besides your laughable faithful belief in the impossible “holocaust’ you continue to ignore the facts of Communist aggression.

    Why Germany Attacked the Soviet Union, Hitler’s Declaration of War Against the USSR – Two Historic Documents, by Mark Weber: http://www.unz.com/article/why-germany-attacked-the-soviet-union/
    Operation Barbarossa Was A Preventive Attack: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7999
    The Soviet Union Conspired to Foment World War II and Infiltrate the U.S. Government
    By John Wear https://codoh.com/library/document/6807/?lang=en

  151. Che Guava says:
    @ΑΖ

    So, you are saying that everything from the cruel depravities of the Jewish Bolsheviks is OK.

  152. Alden says:
    @Haxo Angmark

    Maybe, but I doubt Soviet command discussed strategy and ultimate war aims with Oppenheimer. I doubt the Soviets wanted to conquer Japan. Soviets probably wanted a share of the spoils and an outlying island or 2.

    Another thing, American Jews and lefties were completely focused on destroying Germany Germans and bring every Jew in Europe to America or Israel.

    Maybe, but I wouldn’t defend Oppenheimer as not being a Soviet agent on the basis of his position on bombing japan.

    The entire project was a joint production of the US military and Ellis Island Jewish communist spies. Oppenheimer was in charge, more a manager than a line scientist. Information poured out of Los Alamos thru courier Harry Gold to Julius Rosenberg to Russia.

    Almost half a million skilled, experienced machinists in America at the time. And another Ellis Island Jew communist David Greenglass just happened to become foreman of the machine shop that made the prototype bomb.

    Not a coincidence.

    I read a biography of Harry Gold, communist Jew from an early age. He was just one of the many Ellis Island Jew communists directed by their soviet handlers to go into science and engineering. The motive in the 20s was industrial espionage. All those Jew communist engineers and scientists were in a perfect position to send information to Russia.

    The Soviets were also behind all those 1930-1970 “Science and technology must be free to all the world “ organizations. Yes indeed, the results of the money and effort spent by the west were to go directly to Russia.

  153. Alden says:
    @the grand wazoo

    Adolph Berle was a life long non Jewish non communist friend of FDR. He was head of security for the State Department. Starting about 1935 he began investigating Soviet spies in the State Department. In 37, or 38 he met with FDR for an entire day and laid out massive amounts of evidence of communist spies in the state department. He wasn’t a lawyer but he’d prepared cases ready to present to prosecutors.

    FDR refused to do anything. Nothing was done Not many Jews in State at the time, mostly Protestant north easterners.

  154. Bill65 says:

    Nuclear bombs are phone anyway so its all a load of make believe theatre
    and has worked superbly well . If you can be bothered to look into it you will see what I mean.

  155. @Hail

    Yes, you are no doubt right about the simple label ‘leftist’, but don’t they always support the ‘left’ or ‘progressive’ policies? Seems like it. Aristocracy is another form of internationalism so that’s a good choice. They are most comfortable with crossing national boundaries and have no allegiance to their common people. This is what sets Trump apart from them — he is not one of them.

  156. Alden says:
    @jbwilson24

    99 percent of Jews weren’t in a position to spy for Stalin. So they did other things to destroy the US and it’s people. For instance, Lee Harvey Oswald became interested in communism age 11 or so when he and his mother lived in a Noo Yawk Jewish neighborhood during the Rosenberg trial.

    “ Old Jewish ladies ” were always passing out Rosenbergs are innocent flyers in his neighborhood. He read the flyers, became interested and found books on Marx and communism in the local public library.

    Whether he or others killed Kennedy he certainly contributed to chaos and endless speculation about Kennedy’s killing.

    The communist Jews are more powerful in America than ever.

    Chess Boudin pro criminal district attorney funded by Jew George Soros. His Mother is weather Underground Black Panther Kathy Boudin. She just happened to go to a hard left Quaker school with Angela Davis. Her father, Chesa’s grandfather was Leonard Boudin member of, and attorney for, communist party of the USA. And Chesa’s great grandparents were standard Ellis Island communist Jews who immigrated to America to cause a revolution, just like Armand Hammer’s and both Julius and Ethel Rosenberg’s parents.

  157. JMcG says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Thanks, I hadn’t realized all the other damage Shapiro had caused. Hopefully the spit he’s roasting on is turning very slowly.

  158. JMcG says:
    @Alfred

    Churchill was entirely in thrall to the Jewish financiers who repeatedly bailed him out of his financial difficulties in the 1930s. David Lough in his No More Champagne describes the train wreck that was Churchill’s personal finance.
    The inference that Churchill was in thrall to his rescuers is mine, not his; but a great deal about the Second World War makes more sense after having read the book.

  159. JMcG says:
    @Gizmo880

    I don’t disagree with the overall point you are making, but to say that the atom bombs were dropped purely as an act of dick swinging is overegging the pudding.
    There is not a scintilla of doubt that the atom bombs saved tens of thousands of American lives and very likely tens of thousands of Japanese lives as well. Looking at what we’ve since become, I don’t think the onus of the acts was worth it, but that’s too easy to say now.

    • Agree: Alden
    • Replies: @Walter
    , @Hibernian
  160. Alden says:
    @Curmudgeon

    Don’t forget that Angela Merkel is the daughter of a Lutheran pastor who defected from safe prosperous W Germany to Soviet E Germany in the early 1950s.

    Who does that?? A communist agent in the Lutheran clergy that’s who.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
  161. Alden says:
    @James J. O'Meara

    I knew a lawyer who worked on the Karen Silkwood thing as a law student. He told me that the stolen materials from that company went to Israel. That’s what the Karen Silkwood lawyers and investigators discovered.

    Of course the destination of the stolen materials was totally covered up.

  162. @Hamlet's Ghost

    True I think I have to concede but I somehow expect he is capable of more and hope he provides it.

  163. Walter says:
    @JMcG

    Groves said in March of 1944 that the bomb was for Russia. Murdering the Japanese was merely the demonstration for Stalin, so he’d fear, and behave… Your understanding is in error. Read Alperovitz.

    It “saved” zero lives…and the radionuclides from the bomb continue to murder. Everywhere.

    Don’t, please, say silly things…do some study…the canonical history is simply bs.

    • Agree: Gizmo880
    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  164. @Brabantian

    You do realize that nuclear explosions have been witnessed by civilians, don’t you?

    • Replies: @Alexandros
  165. @Walter

    Of course, the US did not give a hoot about lives, American or Japanese. A lot of sources say that Japan was ready to surrender even without these bombings. The idea was to scare uncle Joe. However, the Empire miscalculated: instead of scaring him into submission, this mass murder of Japanese civilians spurred his nuclear efforts. Uncle Joe certainly was no angel, but in terms of disregard for human life, Truman and Churchill matched him perfectly.

    • Replies: @Walter
  166. @Wizard of Oz

    ‘I think I can sound now loke quite a well informed amateur, though I will solemnly opine that it doesn’t explain wht Stalin took so little precaution against being wrong and was so careless in his dispositions. But that may be as fruitless as asking how Stalin could have taken the risk of killing so many officers not ling before.’

    Well, it’s interesting. Some or all of several things were going on at once.

    There was the possible calculation I’ve mentioned; there may also have been an irrational ‘deer in the headlights’ response to the realization of impending German attack.

    ‘If I move, the snake will strike.’ Leaders, after all, aren’t any more coldly calculating than the rest of us — they can be utterly irrational. In the days immediately preceding the German strike, Stalin could simply have been paralyzed with fear.

    Then, the Soviet war plan called for an immediate offensive — regardless of who initiated the war. The Russians were deployed accordingly. One doesn’t need to believe they intended to strike first to accept that their deployment was aggressive rather than defensive. In point of fact, the Russians endlessly attacked throughout the war — and if they failed, attacked again. It was often impressively idiotic, but that’s how they fought.

    Finally Stalin of course grossly overestimated the readiness and competence of his army. He wasn’t anticipating that the Germans would be able to go through Soviet troops like a knife through hot butter.

    None of this is to defend Stalin as generalissimo. He was appalling — but his behavior wasn’t as inexplicable as it might appear.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @E_Perez
  167. Gall says:

    Saying Oppy was a Soviet Agent and proving it are two different things. There is no doubt he was an egotist who regretted his actions later in life which is what made him a threat to the burgeoning MIC who wanted to build a bigger bomb. So they discredited him and turned to Teller who was a proto- Neocon and seems the more likely choice for a spy since he was a big supporter of the state of Israel.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  168. @Gall

    That’s what many commenters here do not understand: saying something, or providing a link to a site where someone said something, or even multiple links where some people say that 2×2=5 or that the Earth is flat, is a far cry from proving it.

    • Agree: Gall
  169. Dan Hayes says:
    @Haxo Angmark

    Corrections:

    Fermi was not a Jew although his wife was.

    Teller was the one who circulated a petition which requested that a bomb be dropped near the Japanese mainland to convince the Japanese authorities to surrender. (In retrospect years later Teller stated that he was wrong in circulating this petition since it was the province of civilian authorities to make any such decision.)

  170. @Colin Wright

    Can you substantiate your “Then, the Soviet war plan called for an immediate offensive — regardless of who initiated the war. The Russians were deployed accordingly. ”

    That’s very important, indeed one might say critical. Add in the entirely plausible misjudgment by Stalin of the relatiave strength and capacity of the aGerman and Soviet armies in 1941 and the big question is why Stalin disbelieved correct intelligence.

  171. ‘Can you substantiate your “Then, the Soviet war plan called for an immediate offensive — regardless of who initiated the war. The Russians were deployed accordingly. ”…’

    I can’t substantiate it — but I didn’t just pull an Aaron and make it up out of thin air.

    Somewhere — admittedly, I don’t recall where — I read a very thorough and impressive discussion of Soviet doctrine, how that doctrine called for an immediate drive into German-held territory, and how Soviet forces were deployed accordingly.

    Note that this is not the same as claiming the Soviets planned to strike first. Rather, it is to claim that if war came, the Russians intended to wage that war offensively.

    • Replies: @John Wear
  172. John Wear says:
    @Colin Wright

    Colin Wright,

    I highly recommend the book “The Chief Culprit” by Viktor Suvorov. This book provides overwhelming evidence that Stalin was about to invade and conquer all of Europe. Hitler’s invasion of the Soviet Union on June 22, 1941 prevented this from happening.

    • Agree: Hamlet's Ghost
  173. Walter says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Comrade President VVP recently said of the ethics and morality of geopolitical decision-making> “It’s a bit like mathematics.”

    His office, the actual physical office, was also Stalin’s office.

    It must be obvious that there is not much room, not many opportunities, for anybody occupying such office, in the sense of the responsibilities and duties, to be kind or nice. Some, sometimes, but generally it’s ice-cold up on the mountain.

    The financial control of Churchill by a junta is well-established in the records Irving and others have discovered – a junta that included ardent zionists and bankers – and which evidently designed to force into existence both the German fascist faction “nsdwp” aka nazi, and also a British fascist dictatorship, and, ultimately, an American one. The ultimate goals were the destruction of the Soviets by a “proxy” European army, and secondary the forced movement of European Jews from Europe to Palestine. The destruction of Germany and France as Continental powers, if we look at the “strategic bombing” patterns, was also designed.

    FDR saw that as opportunity…hence lend-lease to Churchill and to Stalin, with, it seems, the design of destroying the British Empire, and the French and Dutch and Belgian ones too, and establishing the Soviets as co-equal to the US – two vast continental empires emerged. The stability thus achieved by Roosevelt and Stalin worked until Gorbie (it seems) sold out the country. That act, whatever the motivation, ended the dynamic-stability and created massive and rapid Change. Which Change, as Hoffer and others say, created the ugly revolutionary contests we have the pleasure of watching now,

    Regrettably Churchill, it is said, was behind the double cross that was “operation unthinkable” and the follow-on Truman/Churchill manufacturing of “cold war” and the pogroms in USA and elsewhere to destroy any antifascist political forces wherever they could…and of course the zionists got their pseudostate…a pied-à-terre right in the face of Arabia…

    Irving opines in re the death of FDR that it was murder traceable to Winnie’s gang and executed by white Russian agents under the control of, I think, Shepardson, MI6 anyway.

    • LOL: Alden
    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  174. @John Wear

    Unlike some on UR threads you are not, I take it, drawing any favourable conclusions about Hitler’s morality or military genius from any of that.

    Also, why do you write as if the intended outcome of conquest of “all of Europe” was likely to happen? (I am sure you are aware that it was Trotsky rather than Stalin who was the great proponent of worldwide Communism but I will leave that for experts to discuss that and draw out the implications.)

    Stalin had obviously got so much wrong I wonder where your confidence comes from.

    You have the advantage of being completely unspecific about dates or any other details but I wonder if you have considered what the response would have been in Western Europe, as well as much of Eastern Europe, if Stalin had managed to get in first with an attack on Germany. Unless Germany had been as effective as in Barbarossa it seems likely that Hitler would soon have had some enthusiastic French, Irish, Scandinavian and may be many other allies.

    • Replies: @John Wear
    , @JMcG
  175. John Wear says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Wizard of Oz,

    As I said in my previous post, I highly recommend the book “The Chief Culprit” by Viktor Suvorov. This book provides overwhelming evidence that Stalin was about to invade and conquer all of Europe. Hitler’s invasion of the Soviet Union on June 22, 1941 prevented this from happening.

    I think this book will answer all of your questions.

  176. This whole discussion is ridiculous. The knowledge of how to assemble a nuclear bomb is not a big secret. Being able to enrich the material to build a nuclear bomb is the difficulty. It was captured Nazi scientist Zippe who gave the Soviet’s the atom bomb through his ingenious centrifuge.

  177. Walter says:
    @Gizmo880

    “The Decision to Use the Atomic Bomb and the Architecture of an American Myth” Alperovitz is a good start to understanding who and why they tested the bombs on Japan.

    There was zero public discussion of this until after the war…then, naturally, one would be in a position to say whatever you like. There was private discussion on the Mesa and, since Groves knew about the intent to use it to intimidate the Russians, there was discussion within senior military circles of people.

    It was stupid decision and had the evident result of forcing USSR to build bombs at the very moment their Country was substantially broke and in ruins. Anglo-saxon hubris and dumbazz lack of understanding resulted in a slight misunderstanding of Soviet capability. Churchill and Truman et al misunderestimated the commies…

    As was Dresden, it was therefore quite obviously designed to create the cold war itself and prevent the Soviet Red Army from getting to anyplace further West…

  178. Walter says:
    @ΑΖ

    Oh dear! The bomb was patented in the late 1930’s, not that the patented design would work, or could be built, at that time…the point is that it was obvious.

    There was a secret – the secret was the only secret of any importance. I will say the secret here : “It is doable” or “it has been proved that it is possible”. The rest was hard engineering.

    The trinity test proved it possible, and there was little or no doubt anyway.

    The spies simply made it marginally easier for the Soviets to do it quickly.

    The tests on Japan made it clear why they had to do it. They would be next… And the US and English activity before and after the war made this clear.

    Honestly being Jewish was not important. What was important was postwar stability…and the spies did what they did with the design to create that stability.

    Heisenberg was quite capable of doing the work too – and entirely “Aryan”

    If not for Joe #1 (soviet bomb) we’d all be dead – I am quite sure.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  179. @Joe Stalin

    So was “the Holocaust”. It doesn’t mean it’s true. Especially when “eye witness reports” is all we got.

    • Replies: @Joe Stalin
  180. JMcG says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    No one leapt to Finland’s aid after the Soviet attack, nor did France or Britain declare war on the Soviets after they occupied the eastern parts of Poland two weeks after Germany invaded.
    The Irish were neutral, but not especially ill-disposed to Hitler during the war. Some even fought on Franco’s side during the Spanish Civil War, mostly as a result of the Republic’s anti-clericalism.

  181. @Walter

    Don’t know whether the death of FDR was murder. He was pretty sick from the get-go in the early 1930s.

    Do know for a fact that the first thing Brits and Americans did in Italy and Greece was to imprison those who fought against fascists.

    The cold war was in a way inevitable: the US strived to dominate the whole world, but Stalin refused to toe the imperial line. The fact that the USSR also had the A-bomb was the only reason it remained cold.

    • Replies: @Walter
    , @Alden
    , @dfordoom
  182. Walter says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Yes, it may have been a coincidence, yet Irving makes a good circumstantial argument for murder – I take it that the old man was probably smothered because of the schedule – he did not die soon enough for the plot. I also take it that he was poisoned, which was what Stalin told the widow (Gore Vidal)

    These go together, as it may well be that he was poisoned slowly. MI6 was all over him… and then finished off. It is in Truman’s diary that he told Bess that he expected FDR to die, and leave the VP the job. That’s why he took the nomination as VP, he implies. Of course that’s for the record, and probably only the “white” version. What Truman did not say was how he expected to get the nomination against the wildly popular Wallace, who was a shoe-in… MI6 and the traitors like Prescott the B and the texas oil boys forced the weakened (on purpose? by slow poisons?) president to accept Truman…. It’s fairly obvious it was a policy coup to avoid peace and attack USSR asap with the new weapon…and it absolutely depended on FDR dying on time. They blew it.

    The new weapon, the bomb, could not be manufactured fast enough to assure victory, and by the time they had the 400 or so they calculated as necessary, the Soviets had tested their own…

    Yes, Inevitable, because real people took real actions to create it.

    I should very much like to see a competent forensic pathologist and forensic anthropologist do a thorough postmortem – the body exists yet….

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @Alden
    , @Mike P
  183. @Walter

    I should very much like to see a competent forensic pathologist and forensic anthropologist do a thorough postmortem – the body exists yet….

    There is a huge difference between competent and honest. I am pretty sure those who did pathology after FDR death were competent, but I wouldn’t bet one cent that they were honest. But there are shades of gray in dishonesty. On that score, the Warren commission “magic bullet” is unlikely to be surpassed by other bought and paid for liars.

  184. @Walter

    Your theory seems to be that the failure of the US to produce enough atomic bombs in the years 1945 to 1949 (some 45 I think) to destroy the USSR was the critical reason why a nuclear war wasn’t started by 1949 (by the US) which would have led to the destruction of all of us. Is there an alternative meaning to your words? Amongst the problems I see with this is that Truman allowed and fostered rapid disarmamament after WW2 when any war to destroy the USSR would clearly have required the maintenance of strong armed forces.

    • Replies: @Walter
  185. Alden says:
    @Walter

    Summer of 1944 Democrat convention. Sitting VP communist Henry Wallace was all set to be FDR’s VP again. All Roosevelt’s entourage and every Dr and nurse in the country who saw FDR in the weekly newsreels knew he was dying of heart disease and it was only a matter of time till he died.

    The northern Jews communists and idiot liberals naturally wanted to keep Wallace.

    By that time the very powerful Reuther, head of the auto workers union was aware Wallace and many in the labor movement were Soviet fronts.

    So at the convention the southern segregationists and the northern union leaders whipped the idiot intellectual candidate for VP and managed to get in Truman as VP.

    FDR administration was very very pro labor union. Unions vastly expanded during the 1930s. Reuther and other labor leaders spent a lot of time and effort fighting communist front labor unions.

    They were determined to get rid of commie front Henry Wallace. So were the southerners.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  186. Mike P says:
    @Walter

    I also take it that he (FDR) was poisoned, which was what Stalin told the widow

    Interestingly, FDR is said to have died of cerebral hemorrhage, as is Stalin himself – and in Stalin’s case, a good case for poisoning has been made. Hemorrhage is easy to induce with certain types of drugs that, at lower doses, are also used therapeutically as “blood thinners” (terribly inexact term). See the paper Stalin’s mysterious death.

  187. @Alexandros

    In the case of space detonations of thermonuclear weapons such as Starfish Prime, the Beta particles injected into earth’s magnetic field from the detonations were reflected by the magnetic poles acting as electron mirrors and were detectable over a decade later.

    https://physicstoday.scitation.org/doi/abs/10.1063/1.2970203?journalCode=pto

  188. Alden says:
    @AnonFromTN

    The resistance against the German occupiers and Mussolini government in Greece and Italy were local communists with plenty of Soviet special forces and advisors. The purpose was;

    1 kill potential non communist leaders and politicians who would become the government after the war

    2 have a communist leader ship and local government all ready to step in as the German army retreated.

    That’s why the communist resistance was arrested as soon as possible after the war by the British and Americans.

    Unfortunately, the Russian armies that defeated the Germans in E Europe installed the local communist resistance killers in E Europe after the war

    Where would you like to live, work and raise your family 1945 to 1990? Bulgaria, Poland or Italy???

    Thousands of E European communists spent the war in Russia training to take over after the war. Others stayed home joined the communist resistance and spent the war spotting and killing anyone with the potential to become elected or other non communist official after the war.

    There was a whole smaller civil war going on in every country under German occupation. Native communists vs local non communists fighting and plotting to eliminate the opposition and control the country after the war.

    No one had to help DeGualle’s non communist catholic forces during the war. Summer and fall of 1944 there was a real war between French communists and DeGualle’s non communists, Catholics and middle class forces.

    The communist forces were greatly enhanced by the Spanish communists who’d fled Spain in 1938 when the great Catholic anti communist defeated the Spanish and soviet communists in the civil war.
    But DeGualles forces prevailed summer and fall of 1944 against the communists. Thanks be to God and all his Saints and Angels.

    I believe the death toll was about 10,000, mostly communists I hope.

    Too bad American Christians and non communists didn’t do the same 1960 to the present.

    At least America helped save Western Europe from The Beast From The Beast.

    Of course the commies are back under various guises and more successful in destroying western civilization and the goyim than they were in and right after WW2.

    • Agree: JMcG
  189. Per Wikipedia…

    “We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried. Most people were silent. I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad Gita; Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and, to impress him, takes on his multi-armed form and says, ‘Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.’ I suppose we all thought that, one way or another”

    Perhaps, he didn’t want the world to be destroyed and that says it all!

  190. @Alden

    thanks Alden.

    Your comment helps to make sense of Andrew Buchanan’s explanation/speculation of how and why FDR had a secret meeting with Gen. Mark Clark at Bernard Baruch’s villa in the Carolinas shortly before Rome capitulated, June, 1944.

    Buchanan can’t prove beyond a shadow of a doubt, but speculates that FDR instructed Clark to ignore the plan US forces had with British for a two-pronged offensive to take Rome and block German path of retreat. Instead, Clark marched into Rome alone, and cordoned the city against anyone else — most importantly, British diplomats were not permitted into Rome, where the Americans were now arranging Italy’s government: the Americans admitted Communists into the government “for reasons of expedience.” Badoglio was required to resign. USA now owned Italy, the Mediterranean, trade routes to N Africa and significantly, routes to the Levant, and USA placed Communists in Italy’s government.

    https://www.c-span.org/video/?322137-1/discussion-us-engagement-italy-world-war-ii

    Buchanan makes no suggestion whatsoever regarding Baruch’s involvement in the Mark Clark scheme, but it is at least worth noting that he and FDR were together in the same building when the alleged plot was hatched.

    FDR visited Baruch’s villa frequently, where they shared tea.

    That the FDR-Clark plan meant German forces lived to fight another day, and could make their way back into Germany, suggests to me that FDR may have had it in his mind to use Wehrmacht to re-engage with Russia, once FDR had achieved his goals.

    FDR’s unfortunate demise frustrated that plan.

    Interesting how several people with close and even friendly relations with Baruch end up dead: FDR, Patton, Forrestal – – – Baruch visited Patton April 11, 1945, the day before FDR died in Georgia, April 12, 1945. Google reports that Patton died of “congestive heart failure” in December 1945.

  191. @Alden

    Yea, that’s the American version of history. The US needed to explain why they invited so many former Nazis to the States and allowed many more to escape to South America. Those who fought Nazis viewed the events differently. Among other things, their imprisonment was meant to silence them, but didn’t quite achieve this goal. Still, some people swallow the “official” history hook, line, and sinker. As the American saying puts it, there’s a sucker born every minute.

  192. Walter says:
    @Alden

    Not only Soviets supported commies…United State’ OSS ran guns to Yugoslavian Communists, across the Adriatic from Beri, according to the skipper and OSS member Sterling Walter Hayden – yeah, the same guy who was the insane General Ripper. Sterling Hayden, bless his heart, was entirely in accord with Tito…and a member of CPUSA. He ratted out at the McCarthy purges…but so did many people…

    Like Woddy Guthrie, ahm not ezactly a communist, bu’ah been inth’ red all mah life. My parents, like about half of young college people, went to communist meetings…it was ordinary.

    Seriously, Friend, “communism” is simply a name-calling these days. The real thing is a very big tent. Many people were quite content in the DDR and in Yugoslavia it worked pretty well…so well that it took a massive air campaign by fascists to bring those happy commies to heel.

    The Trotskyist methods being used on Civilization with such horrible effect, the false flags, the murders, the perversions and atomization, the cries of racism (that was a term Trotsky used to de-legitimize opponents) – these are the instruments of the cryptonazi CFR types, quintessentially Fascist.

    The murders did not stop…commie method animated by deep fascist perverts continues now. It’s what’s going on right before your eyes. And in your mind – the war.

    • Replies: @NobodyKnowsImADog
  193. Alden says:
    @Hibernian

    Excellent post, absolutely right.

  194. Alden says:
    @chris

    So that’s how out of half a million skilled experienced machinists in the country 3rd generation Ellis Island communist Jew David Greenglass just happened to become foreman of the Los Alamos machine shop that made the prototype bomb. Plus Ted Hall and the rest of the communist Jews at Los Alamos.

  195. Alden says:
    @awry

    The foreman of the crew that made the bomb prototype was a communist Jew. And so was the Los Alamos manager who just happened to find and hire him.

    It wasn’t a coincidence that so many communist Jews just happened to be collected at Los Alamos.

  196. E_Perez says:
    @Colin Wright

    ‘If I move, the snake will strike.’ Leaders, after all, aren’t any more coldly calculating than the rest of us — they can be utterly irrational. In the days immediately preceding the German strike, Stalin could simply have been paralyzed with fear.

    Then, the Soviet war plan called for an immediate offensive — regardless of who initiated the war. The Russians were deployed accordingly. One doesn’t need to believe they intended to strike first to accept that their deployment was aggressive rather than defensive.

    Poor Stalin too frightened too move? Not convincing at all – not to say lacking any military logic.

    If your fear an invasion, you get your forces and logistics into defense position. The Soviet build-up, which was under way well before the Germans attacked, was purely aggressive and was the reason why the Germans “cut through the Soviet Union like a knife in butter”. The military advantage of the Russians was about 6 to 1 in all areas and even Soviet incompetence and German excellence cannot explain the German advances.

    The Soviet soldiers were sitting in their trains to the west with maps of Berlin, no defense concept and all logistics shifted to the border, when the Germans attacked.

    • Agree: John Wear
  197. Seraphim says:
    @Alden

    American ‘Christians’ were all on the ‘anti-fascist’ bandwagon. Their opposition to ‘communism’ is largely a myth (they went in droves to Spain to combat ‘fascism’, not ‘communism’). They turned overnight ‘anti-communist’ when Stalin started to ‘persecute’ the ‘anti-fascists’, first the Trotskyites (even in Spain!) and after the war the ‘JAC (Jewish Antifascist Committee)’ that he so deftly used to secure American support during the war (by dangling the carrot of acceding to their demands of a Jewish Republic in Crimea and Ukraine).

    • Replies: @Alden
  198. Walter says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    I did not write the plans. The ideas are not mine, they are real. They wrote the plans. Do your research, Friend. It’s a public secret… It is not theory, it is the way the policy was in fact, USA had a policy coup, maybe FDR died on schedule naturally, and maybe his heart disease was natural. Irving makes the case for murder. It is congruent, and accords with history. It is in accord with chemistry of poisons. Victory attended by betrayal is the ordinary form…read your Greek, Latin, and Chinese… . it is trivial, even in the 1940’s, to make a hemorrhage. It is trivial too to create disease, even then. It’s plausible. And normal. Victory and Betrayal are the twins of Victory’s birth.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  199. @Alden

    That sounds like reality and it is interesting looking back beyond my years of adult interest to the days when there were Communist controlled unions in Australia but also anti Communist union activity roughly divided into Catholic and non Catholic. Why I wonder were the Communist unions the most thuggish ones? Strategic like wharf labourers and seamen and major building construction? No, I am inclined to think Comms usually had the advantage of being completely unscrupulous so they didn’t interrupt little perks like wharfies pinching the cigarettes from parcels to Australian POWs. I must ask my now respectable cousins whose mothers were all Comms in the 30s and, in the case of the one who died at 103, all her life – except they don’t talk to me.

    • Replies: @JMcG
  200. Adelaar says:
    @Seraphim

    Great information! I never heard of ‘California in Crimea’ for example. Will definitely look that up. Cheers!

  201. Adelaar says:
    @MarkinLA

    The Japanese were willing to surrender unconditionally before, with the exception of the Tenno’s abdication from his status as a deity. The US didn’t accept and took to more convincing means.

  202. JMcG says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    I must say that this comment thread has given me a great deal to think about. Thanks to all.

  203. ivan says:

    Dr Oppenheimer was apparently a complex character, but that did not stop him from indulging in childish fascination with watching things blow up. According to the oral archives of Dr Edward Teller, there was a view current at Los Alamos that perhaps the Japanese should be given a demonstration of what an atomic weapon was capable of. It appears that Oppenheimer was in the camp of those who preferred that the bomb be dropped on the Japanese regardless. He was a pyrotechnic of sorts. Among the ironies here is that Edward Teller who claims to be for the idea of warning the Japanese off, ended up in the American imagination as Dr Strangelove, while Oppenheimer became a conscience-stricken peacenik spouting the Bhagavad Gita.

    I don’t think whatever Oppenheimer gave the Soviets was of any moment to them. They could figure out the physics themselves. What was important was the hard technical data on the metallurgy and chemistry of reaction and subsequent separation. They were need of that data as that is what shortens the time towards the engineering the bomb. They probably knew all that needed to be known of the feasibility of the bomb from their sources reading such things as the “Maude Report”.

    But why blame only the Jews? Who kept second-tier cities such as Hiroshima and Nagasaki off the inciendiary and almost genocidal bombing runs of Curtis leMay? May was quite happy to burn all of Japan down with his bombers. Why its Stimson who kept the city of Kyoto off the list, claiming that he did not want to destroy forever the ability of the Japanese to connect with their past.

    In the scheme of things Hiroshima which was a free port would not be a haven for die-hard nationalists like Yukio Mishima. They even had Jesuits there doing their stuff. A liberal city. And Nagasaki? The only remaining city with a substantial Catholic presence, having survived all the persecution through the centuries only to be vapourised by the Americans.

    Someone up There has a wicked sense of humour.

    • Replies: @ivan
    , @turtle
  204. ivan says:
    @ivan

    … I mean

    He was a pyromaniac of sorts…

  205. Hibernian says:
    @JMcG

    “There is not a scintilla of doubt that the atom bombs saved tens of thousands of American lives and very likely tens of thousands of Japanese lives as well.”

    That line of reasoning assumes we had to invade the Home Islands and get an Unconditional Surrender. (Which we didn’t get even after the two Bombs because we let the Japanese keep the Emperor, subject to our counter condition that he inform his subjects that he was not a god.)

    Insistence on Unconditional Surrender is almost always unnecessary and a war crime.

    • Agree: John Wear, JMcG
  206. Hibernian says:
    @Alden

    He might have thought it was a Christian thing to do, to suffer together with the East German people. He still had a fool for a daughter. A Communist agent might more likely position himself in W. Germany to sow discord, spy, etc.

  207. dfordoom says: • Website
    @John Wear

    I highly recommend the book “The Chief Culprit” by Viktor Suvorov. This book provides overwhelming evidence that Stalin was about to invade and conquer all of Europe.

    No it doesn’t. It provides a lot of dubious assertions. Suvorov started off with a pet theory (Stalin was the bad guy and Hitler the innocent victim) and then tendentiously interpreted evidence (often totally unsubstantiated pseudo-evidence) to make his claim sound convincing.

    Suvorov is not a real historian. And he is of course a traitor, looking for ways to justify his own treason. He’s incredibly popular among the Hitler fanboys on this site.

    Don’t waste your money on Suvorov’s worthless pop history books.

    • Replies: @John Wear
  208. dfordoom says: • Website
    @AnonFromTN

    The cold war was in a way inevitable: the US strived to dominate the whole world, but Stalin refused to toe the imperial line. The fact that the USSR also had the A-bomb was the only reason it remained cold.

    Yep. That sums it up pretty well.

  209. John Wear says:
    @dfordoom

    dfordoom,

    Have you actually read Viktor Suvorov’s book “The Chief Culprit”?

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @dfordoom
  210. turtle says:
    @ivan

    IIRC what I’ve read, Oppenheimer’s argument was that if an announced “demonstration” failed, U.S. credibility on the subject would be zero, and there would be no chance of recovery from that “loss of face,” short of actually dropping one or more bombs which functioned properly.

    I suppose the counter to that argument would be to not announce the “demonstration” unless it succeeded, but of course that point of view did not prevail.

    Keep in mind that the “gadget” which was exploded in the New Mexico desert was a scientific experiment, not an actual weapon. Neither of the two different “devices” which were dropped on Japan had actually been tested, because there was neither the time nor the material to do so.

    Also, IIRC, there was enough fissile material (I don’t know whether U235 or plutonium, but would guess the latter) to make one more bomb, but that had not yet been built.
    So, in effect, the U.S. had “shot its wad” after Nagasaki, which the Japanese, of course, did not know, absent Japanese spying, of which I have not read.

    Some may find this film of interest:

    Among the ironies here is that Edward Teller who claims to be for the idea of warning the Japanese off, ended up in the American imagination as Dr Strangelove, while Oppenheimer became a conscience-stricken peacenik spouting the Bhagavad Gita.

    Yes, that is ironic.

    • Replies: @ivan
  211. It simply doesn’t matter whether Oppenheimer was a Communist or a Communist sympathizer. The end result was the same. Here’a man who had a communist mistress, was a former communist, had a communist brother, communist friends, and hired communists lab assistants. And was A-OK with communists working the Manhattan Project. Plus, he followed the “party line” until December 7th 1941.

    Oppie did everything he could to retard development of the H-Bomb and give the A-bomb secrets to the USSR. He didn’t telegram the Kremlin with all the secrets, because he didn’t have to. Plus, he was too valuable to the Communists to risk as an overt spy.

    Its much like Harry Hopkins. Harry “the Hot-dog” was so Pro-soviet, it was irrelevant whether he was a communist or just a fellow traveler. He couldn’t have done more for Stalin, if he was a member of the KGB. And in any case, Soveit Intelligence would never have risked Hopkins *personally* sending secrets to Stalin, when they could just use other less valuable intelligence assets to do the same thing.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  212. @John Wear

    There are tens of thousands book published every year. Do you really read every piece of crap just because it’s published? In that case, I commiserate with you.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  213. @Honesthughgrant

    Reading this thread, one comes to inevitable conclusion that the A-bomb for the US was produced by communists and Jews. Those who believe it should advocate “decommunizing” the US and getting rid of nuclear weapons.

  214. dfordoom says: • Website
    @John Wear

    Have you actually read Viktor Suvorov’s book “The Chief Culprit”?

    Yes I have. It’s propaganda, not history. All historians to some extent have some axe to grind but proper historians at least make some effort to find a balance. Suvorov’s book is pure propaganda.

    Those who think Hitler Did Nothing Wrong will enjoy it.

    • Replies: @John Wear
  215. Ron Unz says:
    @AnonFromTN

    There are tens of thousands book published every year. Do you really read every piece of crap just because it’s published? In that case, I commiserate with you.

    Well, perhaps. But many millions of copies of Suvorov’s books have appeared in print, mostly in Russia and Germany, establishing him as probably the best-selling military historian in the entire history of the world.

    Yet despite the fact that his work originally appeared in English, for twenty years it was totally blacklisted and boycotted by the English-language press and media worldwide, to such an extent that it became almost impossible to obtain. This leaves me quite skeptical of your belief that the book was orchestrated and promoted by British Intelligence or the CIA.

    Moreover, even after the prestigious Naval Academy Press in the US finally broke the embargo and published an English-language edition about a decade ago, it has still been totally blocked from the English-language MSM, with virtually no reviews or discussions appearing anywhere. Although international conferences have been held to debate the Suvorov Hypothesis, I doubt that even 1 in 100 educated Americans is aware of it.

    If the ruling media/publishing elites across the entire English-language world have spent nearly 30 years making such enormous efforts to prevent people from discovering Suvorov’s theories, one suspects they might be worth exploring.

    I discussed all this in my article last year:

    http://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-when-stalin-almost-conquered-europe/

    • Agree: John Wear
    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  216. John Wear says:

    AnonFromTN,

    What is the purpose of your latest post? Obviously, I don’t read all of the many tens of thousands of books published every year.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  217. John Wear says:
    @dfordoom

    dfordoom,

    All right, if you have read “The Chief Culprit”, I will be glad to have a discussion with you about this book.

    I would like to review point by point what you find wrong in the book. Please tell me specifically the first thing that you think is incorrect in this book. If you have the book in your library, please provide page references. If you don’t have the book in your library, you can read my summary of the book on this website at https://www.unz.com/book/john_wear__germanys-war/ in Chapter One of my book
    “Germany’s War”.

  218. @Ron Unz

    I never said that Rezun (who calls himself Suvorov) was working on the orders of CIA or MI6. Lots of people don’t need any orders to lie. The fact that his particular brand of lies is not in fashion in the “official” circles in the US and imperial vassals does not make them true. For example, American MSM do not promote the theory (with many books published in support of it) that the Earth is flat, or that all world governments are controlled by space aliens. Yet it does not mean that these theories are true. When imperial propaganda promotes something, that something is likely a lie. When it doesn’t promote something, that something might be true or a lie. The decision must be made on a case-to-case basis.

    As to best-selling, the Bible is the best-selling book of all times in the world, closely followed by Koran. Does this prove that the stories told in those books are true? As I once told my American grad student, many times more burgers than filet mignons are sold, but it does not mean that burgers are better meat.

  219. @John Wear

    The point is that if something is said in a published book, this does not prove anything. There are books saying that the Earth is flat, and that all governments are controlled by space aliens, but all of this remains nonsense, no matter how many published books say it.

    Also, historian is a person who studies history looking at evidence, not someone who claims to be one. Otherwise you’d have to consider all Napoleons in madhouses real.

  220. Ron Unz says:
    @AnonFromTN

    For example, American MSM do not promote the theory (with many books published in support of it) that the Earth is flat, or that all world governments are controlled by space aliens. Yet it does not mean that these theories are true. When imperial propaganda promotes something, that something is likely a lie. When it doesn’t promote something, that something might be true or a lie. The decision must be made on a case-to-case basis.

    I agree entirely. But when a book on a very important subject has sold many millions of copies all around the world but has been totally blocked and embargoed for decades in all English-language countries, that naturally raises all sorts of dark suspicions and suggests that the book is definitely worth reading, whether correct or not.

    Back in the 1970s I was an avid war-gamer in Junior High School, and obviously World War II was the subject of dozens of those historical board-games. The Soviet military deployments just prior to Barbarossa were so enormous in their size and conspicuous in their positioning that people would frequently say “If I didn’t know any better, I’d think that Stalin had been about to launch a gigantic invasion of Europe.” The only real argument on the other side was that all the American history books and MSM said otherwise.

    Once one’s faith in the credibility of the American MSM and history textbooks is sufficiently weakened, all sorts of other things become as “obvious” as they should have been all along…

    • Agree: Honesthughgrant, Alden
    • Replies: @Avery
    , @Wizard of Oz
  221. John Wear says:
    @AnonFromTN

    AnonFromTN,

    As I recently responded to dfordoom, if you have read “The Chief Culprit”, I will be glad to have a discussion with you about this book.

    I would like to review point by point what you find wrong in this book. Please tell me specifically the first thing that you think is incorrect in this book. If you have the book in your library, please provide page references with your responses. If you don’t have the book in your library, you can refer to my summary of the book on this website at https://www.unz.com/book/john_wear__germanys-war/ in Chapter One of my book “Germany’s War”.

    • Replies: @Simpleguest
    , @utu
  222. @Haha

    The word is “abolition” Abraham Lincoln did not write abolishment proclamation.

  223. @John Wear

    The argument that Hitler attacked the Soviet Union in order to preempt an imminent attack by Stalin, contains an enormous and obvious logical fallacy.

    Even if, for the sake of argument, we assume that this were true, it won’t change anything. It won’t in any way change the fact of life that Nazi Germany attacked first, that it was the aggressor, that it committed an act of still unprovoked aggression.

    Had Hitler simply prepared defenses in anticipation of this “imminent” attack and waited for it, he might have even ended being on the “good” side of history. But, such was not the nature of the “beast”.

    Until, future “historians” publish new revelations “proving” that it was actually the Soviet union that attacked first, everything stays the same.

    • Agree: dfordoom
  224. George says:
    @Alden

    So you have this group that is mostly Eastern European Jews with a couple of other non American-protestants like Enrico Fermi. Why is the U S of A entitled to their work? Demanding that foreigners produce and keep secret what they produce is going too far. It can’t happen.

    If the US wanted to keep the bomb secret, not dropping it on Japan might have given Stalin second thoughts about if a nuclear bomb was possible.

    • Replies: @Alden
  225. John Wear says:

    Simpleguest,

    If Hitler had not attacked the Soviet Union on June 22, 1941, all of Europe would have been conquered by the Soviet Union. Hitler’s only choice was to attack first.

    This is explained in Chapter One of my book “Germany’s War”. Ron Unz has posted my book on his website at https://www.unz.com/book/john_wear__germanys-war/.

    • Replies: @Simpleguest
  226. utu says:
    @John Wear

    OK, I read the chapter 1 of your book and got to this point where you write:

    Hitler was not even aware that his attack of Poland on Sept. 1, 1939, would turn into anything more than a local conflict. If Hitler had known that his invasion of Poland would result in a major world war, he never would have invaded Poland.

    This Hitler person, the object of your adoration, was actually an idiot, right? Yet your adoration of this Hitler person is unwavering. Love is blind. Blind love turns us into idiots.

    • Replies: @John Wear
    , @dfordoom
  227. Avery says:
    @Ron Unz

    { The Soviet military deployments just prior to Barbarossa were so enormous in their size and conspicuous in their positioning that people …..”}

    How do you know this to be true, Ron?
    Who or what were/are your sources?

    { “If I didn’t know any better, I’d think that Stalin had been about to launch a gigantic invasion of Europe.” }

    Soviets (….. Russians) are very good at what they call ‘maskirovka’: it’s hard to translate into English, but is a combination or concealment+deception+……
    There are many examples from WW2 where the Red Army moved enormous numbers of men and materiel without Germans finding out about it. A more recent example: the so-called ‘Little Green Men’ who seemingly appeared out of nowhere in Crimea, while NATO was watching and Western (Neocon) leaders were still debating what to do about Crimea.

    If – allegedly – Soviets had troops on the border ‘…so enormous in their size and conspicuous in their positioning….’, maybe they were trying to convince Nazi Germany not to invade?
    If Stalin wanted to invade Europe in 1941, why would the invasion force be so conspicuous?
    Why would he give up the element of surprise?
    And what would Stalin gain by invading Europe?

    There is a cottage industry working tirelessly to Deify Hitler. All sorts of theories and suppositions are being advanced. Well, here are a couple facts:

    1. Hitler first wrote about Lebensraum in the East in 1925.
    Did he or didn’t he ?
    He did. And what was to become of the 10s of millions of Slavic peoples who lived there?

    2.” You only have to kick in the door and the whole rotten structure will come crashing down”. Adolf Hitler commenting about USSR, just before launching Barbarossa, to those who advised against invading, and who predicted a long and bloody war on the Eastern front.
    Did Hitler say it or didn’t he.

    If the Red Army was so conspicuous and enormous, ready to invade Europe, why didn’t Hitler say something like “……we’ll crush those invading Jewish Communists the minute they cross the border….”, or words to that effect, instead of “…..kick in the door…..”?

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  228. @John Wear

    “If Hitler had not attacked the Soviet Union on June 22, 1941, all of Europe would have been conquered by the Soviet Union. Hitler’s only choice was to attack first.”

    Now, now, we don’t know that, do we.
    But, what we know is that Hitler’s attack precipitated the very outcome he was, as you imply, “desperately” trying to prevent. That is the obvious logical fallacy that I already mentioned.

    • Replies: @John Wear
  229. Seraphim says:
    @Simpleguest

    Don’t forget that Germany attacked Russia in 1914 motivating her aggression with the same arguments like Hitler. Russia mobilized ergo it prepares to attack us, therefore we should attack preemptively. Lost in the narrative is the fact that Germany shot the first shots which defines her as the aggressor. At least in WW1 she declared war. Hitler didn’t bother with such trifles.
    The myth of Russia bent to destroy ‘Europe’ is an essential ingredient of the political imaginary of the ‘West’.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  230. John Wear says:
    @utu

    Utu,

    Hitler is not the object of my adoration. I neither love nor hate Hitler. Please read Chapter Three of my book to learn why Hitler invaded Poland.

    Also, if Great Britain and France were really interested in protecting Poland, why didn’t they declare war against the Soviet Union?

    • Replies: @utu
  231. @Simpleguest

    That’s ordinary human logic. It is alien to Hitler fan-boys/girls.

    • Disagree: John Wear
  232. John Wear says:
    @Simpleguest

    Simpleguest,

    You write: “Now, now, we don’t know that, do we.”

    My response: Actually we do know that. The Soviet Union’s army was so powerful that nothing could have stopped it if Hitler had not attacked the Soviet Union first. We know this with complete certainty.

    This is all documented in Viktor Suvorov’s book “The Chief Culprit”. Please read the book and decide for yourself.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  233. Seraphim says:
    @John Wear

    The logic fallacy is when you dismiss the critiques to the premises of a controversial thesis by reiterating the premises.

    • Replies: @John Wear
    , @Alden
  234. Alden says:
    @Seraphim

    My post was about the 2 opposing “resistance” forces in the German occupied countries of Europe 1939 to April 1945, not whatever Americans did before the war.

  235. John Wear says:
    @Seraphim

    Seraphim,

    I suggest you read “The Chief Culprit” by Viktor Suvorov. It is very clear that Hitler’s invasion of the Soviet Union was for preemptive purposes. Hitler had no choice but to invade the Soviet Union. There is no “logical fallacy” involved in this analysis.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
    , @Seraphim
  236. Alden says:
    @George

    Except for the immigrant Fermi, most were born in America and therefore American citizens.

    The skills and expertise of the communist agent Jews were only brought together by tens of millions of American tax payer’s money. The whole thing was built organized and run by the American army which jews avoid.

    American money and organization, not communist Jews built Los Alamos Lawrence Livermore and Oak Ridge.

    And I fail to believe that the only scientists engineers and technicians in the country capable of doing the work were CCNY and other 3rd rate college communist Jews.

    Where were the scientists and engineers from MIT, Yale, Harvard, Carnegie Mellon, Cal Tech Cal Poly, UCLA , Michigan Ann Arbor Wisconsin Madison, Uof Chicago, Northwestern, Colorado School of Mines Stanford, University of Illinois Champagne, Cal Berkeley, Lawrence Livermore Labs, Bell Labs, Westinghouse, 3MMM etc?

    Professors researchers and graduates from those schools were not as capable as communist Jews from CCNY?

    FDR’s communist Jew administration couldn’t find anyone from MIT and the other prestige university and all the industrial research institutes to send to Los Alamos?

    If you believe that; you believe Mike Brown was a gentle giant gunned down by a racist White cop for the joy of killing a black man.

    Half a million skilled experienced machinists in the country and the communist Jew brother of Ethel Rosenberg just happened to be foreman of the machine shop that made the prototype of the bomb.

    Every business and government agency that employees inventors owns what their employees invent, whether it’s a cheap toy or the atom bomb. It’s an ancient practice. Patents are not owned by the employee but the employer.

    The communist Jews could not have done it without the American taxpayers money and the armies facilities, materials and salaries. Who even paid for them to move to Los Alamos and Oak Ridge and prepared furnished homes for them?

    I know there weren’t half a million atomic scientists and half a million engineers as there were machinists.

    But surely recruiting at the many non Jewish communist science & engineering schools and institutes was possible. But it wasn’t done. It just happened, a pure coincidence, the Jewish communists all ended up atLos Alamos but not Oak Ridge.

    In addition to all the science and engineering colleges, the steel auto electrical power mining oil manufacturing and other industries had numerous research institutes all over the country

    But of all the scientists and engineers in the country, communist Jews were hired at Los Alamos

  237. Alden says:
    @Seraphim

    Wear’s writing about facts and history, not obscure philosophy.

    • Replies: @Simpleguest
  238. dfordoom says: • Website
    @AnonFromTN

    As to best-selling, the Bible is the best-selling book of all times in the world, closely followed by Koran. Does this prove that the stories told in those books are true?

    And don’t forget the book of Mormon, with total sales of around 140 million.

    L. Ron Hubbard sold a lot of books. He’s outsold Suvorov by orders of magnitude. That must mean that Scientology is much more true than Suvorov.

    And Mao has probably sold a hell of a lot more books than Suvorov. So Mao must be many times more true than Suvorov.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  239. Seraphim says:
    @John Wear

    Well, it is not at all clear. Russians knew in detail that Hitler was preparing the attack, thanks to their intelligence work, since the OKH started planning the ‘Operation Otto’ in July 1940, developed into ‘Barbarossa’ in December 1940. Hitler’s moves replicated the moves of Germany prior to its attack on Russia in 1914.

    • Replies: @John Wear
  240. dfordoom says: • Website
    @utu

    utu quotes John Wear’s book:

    “Hitler was not even aware that his attack of Poland on Sept. 1, 1939, would turn into anything more than a local conflict. If Hitler had known that his invasion of Poland would result in a major world war, he never would have invaded Poland.”

    Which is obviously poppycock. The British and French had made it crystal clear that an invasion of Poland would lead to a general European war. Hitler was insane enough to go ahead anyway because he thought he had some kind of Destiny. At most this passage establishes the fact that Hitler was a reckless deluded gambler who was guided by his own fantasies rather than by reality.

    Which tends to support the idea that Hitler’s invasion of the Soviet Union was another reckless unjustifiable decision guided by his own weird delusions.

    But those who start from the premise that Hitler Did Nothing Wrong and was The Man Destined to Save the West are never going to be convinced by rational arguments.

    • Agree: utu
  241. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Seraphim

    The myth of Russia bent to destroy ‘Europe’ is an essential ingredient of the political imaginary of the ‘West’.

    Yep.

  242. @dfordoom

    You are right, I forgot Little Red Book by Mao. It probably beats even Koran. What’s more, it is shunned by the imperial propaganda. Thus, by Ron Unz criteria, it must be the paragon of truth.

  243. John Wear says:
    @Seraphim

    Seraphim,

    The Soviets did not know that Germany was going to attack their country. Suvorov covers this in detail in his book. If you don’t have Suvorov’s book “The Chief Culprit”, you can go to this website at https://www.unz.com/book/john_wear__germanys-war/ and read the section “Why Hitler’s Invasion of the Soviet Union Surprised Stalin” in Chapter One of my book “Germany’s War”.

  244. Seraphim says:
    @John Wear

    So, I criticize Suvorov’s conclusions in the book “The Chief Culprit” and to convince me of the contrary you recommend to read the book!

    • Replies: @John Wear
    , @dfordoom
  245. John Wear says:
    @Seraphim

    Seraphim,

    Yes, to understand how Suvorov reached his conclusions, you need to read his book. “The Chief Culprit” is available in most major libraries. After you read his book, if you are still not convinced, feel free to get back with me and we will continue our discussions.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  246. Seraphim says:
    @John Wear

    Why the need to buy the book? You already copied it extensively in your essays that it happened to have read.

    • Replies: @John Wear
  247. @Simpleguest

    The only way to get on the “good” side of history is to be among the victors.

    Israel attacked its neighbors in 1967 and hasn’t suffered much in its self-image.

    You really couldn’t be this naive, could you?

    • Replies: @Simpleguest
  248. Ron Unz says:
    @Avery

    { The Soviet military deployments just prior to Barbarossa were so enormous in their size and conspicuous in their positioning that people …..”}

    How do you know this to be true, Ron?
    Who or what were/are your sources?

    Well, it was the mid-1970s and I was in Jr. High, so I can’t quote exact sources. I’d assume that the Soviet order of battle was provided in the standard sources used by the wargame-designers, none of whom ever suggested that the Soviets were preparing to attack. After all, that was 15-odd years before the original publication of Suvorov’s book.

    But here’s the thing…

    Based on everything I’ve read, the Soviet tanks in 1941 were generally just as good as the German ones, and possibly even better. Meanwhile, the Soviets had far more tanks than every other country in the world combined, maybe almost twice as many. And the bulk of them were lined up right on the German border, along with a vast number of ground attack aircraft.

    Supposedly there’s some late 1941 conversation recorded between Hitler and the leader of Finland, in which Hitler expresses total amazement at the astonishing number of tanks the Soviets had had in the forces, far more than he’d ever dreamed they possessed, and what a tremendously close call the whole thing had been.

    Basically, if any half-competent military analyst were shown those deployments, he’d say it was absolutely clear that the Soviets were preparing a gigantic attack. The only reason I assumed otherwise at 13 or 14 was I then still believed our MSM and our history books.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  249. utu says:
    @John Wear

    “Hitler is not the object of my adoration.” – No, he is. You are a typical Hitler fanboy. You will justify the most idiotic decisions and actions by your object of adoration.

    “…why didn’t they declare war against the Soviet Union?” – Because they had brains unlike your Hitler who declared war against the US when he did not have to. It was Hitler’s answer to the daily prayers of FDR. You write:

    “Hitler was later forced to declare war on the United States because of Franklin D. Roosevelt’s numerous provocations…” – Chapter 3

    Yes, he was forced by the force of his own stupidity.

  250. John Wear says:
    @Seraphim

    Seraphim,

    The book “The Chief Culprit” provides far more detail than what is in my book. “The Chief Culprit” is in most major libraries. You might be able to obtain this book from your local library rather than buying it outright.

  251. Alden says:

    I stopped believing my history books when I was 14. That freshman year World civilization course. The chapters on Islam civilization just praised Islam and denigrated Christian Europe. I quickly realized that the book compared the sultan’s palace with the most primitive bits of Europe. Then I realized that the Muslims just conquered and took over Egypt Persia Mesopotamia Greek Byzantine and Roman empires and Spain. So all those so called accomplishments of Islam were accomplishments of prior empires.

    • Replies: @ivan
  252. ivan says:
    @turtle

    Thanks for the added perspective.

  253. @Ron Unz

    Ron, it seems evident that your enthusiasm for the Suvorov thesis as part of your American Pravda series does not have much emotion attached or concern that it is any kind of intellectual test. Rather you seem content to see if the drunken opinionator at the bar can be knocked flat with a couple of lusty blows without much 21st century or any science in their aiming.

    Let’s forget the assumption that 1970s game designers used reliably accurate force strengths and dispositions (which of course you remember with accuracy) for their game designs unaffected by collateral motives. What about

    “But when a book on a very important subject has sold many millions of copies all around the world but has been totally blocked and embargoed for decades in all English-language countries, that naturally raises all sorts of dark suspicions and suggests that the book is definitely worth reading, whether correct or not”?

    That is an amazing claim.

    What other works of history published well after the war have been “totally blocked[sic] and embargoed [sic] in all [sic] “English language countries” (the last “sic” was for the subcontinent where the motive to publish opportunistically would have been tremendous though the point is only peripheral). You use the word “embargo” again to make the same case below. What other comparable works have been so treated and how could this one be treated as so important – up with the English translations of the Bible and indeed all the books on the RCC’s Index and the comparable bans by other dictatorships?

    For something closer to completeness I note that you have also used the words “boycott” and “blacklist” for what the English language press did for 20 years. Do you know of any diaries or caches of letters that shed light on this – even some comment by German historians associated with publishers maybe? Rupert Murdoch would have published it like a shot if perhaps he didn’t do a better job on it than with Hitler’s Diaries…

    Why wouldn’t an English language publisher – maybe even a dodgy barely solvent one – take a chance with it? But let’s take the legal aspects seriously. Have you done the obvious and sent a letter of inquiry to 50 publishers asking whether they have been approached to publish Suvorov’s book, or otherwise had the opportunity or entertained the suggestion to publish it, then asked if they could provide any reasons why it was not published, any [peer] reviews, estimates of sales, minutes of decisions about it etc.?

    OK, so this isn’t an important part of your case against the MSM including book publishers. But, though I can’t match even your 1970s war games for a source, I am not disposed to regard the case which you have summarised here as creating even a presumption in favour of whatever might depend on it – remembering, for example the Irving reference a few threads back which had Hitler turning back to his Soviet project at the end of 1940.

    Furthermore, the problem with your supporting material such as the number of Soviet tanks being greater than the total of all other armies is that (whatever the merits of the T 34 as a tank) they were used very badly as a comparison of tanks lost by all armies would clearly show. Moreover Stalin would have known from his attack on Finland that there were serious deficiencies as he contemplated taking on Germany with a depleted and not yet regenerated officer corps while Hitler’s armies were battle hardened and had just beaten the French and British armies decisively (something which would have been reflected also in Hitler’s confidence in his own military genius and the quality of his forces so making it even less likely that he was desperately getting in first against Stalin).

  254. @Walter

    I think you are at best a mischievous troll whom Ron would do well to discourage. Apart from what your posts disclose about your reasoning I have a major problem of fact in what you say about Irving and his alleged view that FDR was murdered. (I am, by the way grateful to Unz Review giving a glimpse of Irving, based on his early archival work, which was favourable).

    Now I have moved on assisted in large part by your prompting me to use large numbers of search words and phrases to discover what Irving may have said about FDR and what his sources were. There seems to be *absolutely nothing”. Instead I came across a devastating debunking of Irving’s final volume of his Churchill’s War. After behaving idiotically in the Lipstadt case it seems that Irving compounded his folly and lack of principle by attempting sheer manufactured sensationalism to recover his financial position. As it happened his allegations were so bizarre and unsustainable that his publisher refused to pay him his full agreed fee or advance.

    Evidently you have a remote hand waving relationship with your historical authorities. At least I can say that my preference is for what a respected historian still in good standing, Andrew Roberts, has to say about how much one should now trust David Irving – even, by reasonable inference, on the peripheral subject of Roosevelt’s death.

    Here is a source quoting Roberts from his Hitler and Churchill: Secrets of Leadership

    https://books.google.com.au/books?id=pK3NstJvEOEC&pg=PT138&lpg=PT138&dq=irving+churchill+roosevelt+roberts&source=bl&ots=4p77kQ7Rkt&sig=ACfU3U1qqMR3BgWCXvZ4Z3TpG9-gV1XDaA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjlh7K4uI_mAhXKQ30KHcEBAd84ChDoATAHegQICRAB#v=onepage&q=irving%20churchill%20roosevelt%20roberts&f=false

    To be fair Irving had pejoratives for Roberts at

    http://www.fpp.co.uk/docs/Irving/RadDi/RadDi060501.html

    As for me I can at least say that I have had Roberts stay in my house and also address a small Trafalgar Day lunch that I gave on learning that it was one of his party pieces. He is obviously still sane.

    • Replies: @Walter
  255. @Hamlet's Ghost

    “The only way to get on the “good” side of history is to be among the victors.”

    Well, of course.
    But, by attacking, German Army was decimated in Russia and subsequently, German Nazi state was completely destroyed, not unlike Napoleon’s France before.

    I don’t think Soviet Union had any intention of attacking Nazi Germany or Europe in general.
    It was content to re-gain some lost buffer against Germany and let the “capitalists” destroy each other.

    By not attacking, Nazi Germany would have kept all its options open and then who knows how history might have played out.

    For instance, how about an alliance between Germany, Soviet Union and Japan against the Anglo-Saxons?

    • Replies: @Hamlet's Ghost
  256. @Lot

    You ever talk with any old-time Birchers? Oppenheimer, Fermi, Einstein, Truman, Eisenhower, hell even Nixon, somehow. All spies. Spies, spies, everywhere.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  257. @Ron Unz

    Soviet tanks in 1941 were generally just as good as the German ones, and possibly even better.

    As far as battle value goes, Soviet T-34 tanks (the most numerous tank type in the USSR in WWII) were inferior to German Tigers and Panthers from 1941 to the end of the war. Their major advantage was that they were designed to be repaired in the field, whereas superior Tigers and Panthers had to be sent back to the factories for repairs. As Germany occupied huge territories by 1942, this created a logistical nightmare It was further exacerbated by the disruption of transport lines by guerilla fighters on occupied territories. As is well known to anyone capable of logical thinking, there is only one way you can avoid guerilla action against your troops: do not occupy other people’s countries.

    In summary, German avarice, aggressiveness, and utter stupidity devalued the better qualities of their tanks: they would have been great in defense of Germany, but were lost due to occupation of foreign territories thousands of kilometers away, long before the defense of Germany became the order of the day.

    • Replies: @Hamlet's Ghost
    , @JMcG
  258. @alex in San Jose AKA Digital Detroit

    I’d advise “Lot” to look under his/her bed before going to sleep. There must be spies there.

  259. @AnonFromTN

    Looks like you’re confused. There were no Tigers or Panthers available in 1941. The very first Tigers were not available til late in 1942 and their initial performance was underwhelming. The first Panthers didn’t see combat til Kursk in 1943 and they broke down within the first days of the battle.

    German generals like Guderian and von Mellinthin openly declared the T-34 far superior to anything in the Wehrmacht’s arsenal in 1941. Suvorov illustrates Chief Culprit with numerous photos of captured T-34s impressed into German service.

  260. @Simpleguest

    Germany had few options from the beginning of the war til the end. Her greatest vulnerabililty was lack of resources, with petroleum most prominently featured. Hitler knew this, which is why he hammered the point rellentlessly throughout the war. From 1939-1941 Germany was dependent on Stalin for oil, and clearly being dependent on Stalin was not a secure position.

    Barbarossa was Hitler’s greatest gamble to destroy the Soviet Union and seize its resources before the Western powers gained enough strength to overwhelm Germany. While it’s easy to Monday morning quarterback mistakes, the gamble certainly looked like it paid off in the fall of 1941.

    • Agree: John Wear
  261. Walter says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Thanks to you for the ad homenim, Friend. Why did Stalin say to Elanor that FDR was poisoned…

    As I said, maybe it was natural, maybe not…but it fitted the agenda, did it not?

    Like “terrorist”, troll means whatever you like.

    Enjoy your fantasy. As you have described, you are engaged with a point of view, prejudiced, as it were. Nice of you to say so.

  262. @Hamlet's Ghost

    Let me ask you just one thing: what is the distance from Kursk to Germany? Here is the answer: the distance from Kursk to Berlin is 1,555 kilometers (966 miles, is you are an American). This begs the question: what the heck were German troops doing so far from Germany? The answer to this question explains why WWII ended the way it did.

    • Agree: Alden
  263. @Hamlet's Ghost

    Another vignette. Many historians consider German defeat at Stalingrad a turning point of the war. FYI, the distance from Stalingrad to Berlin is 2,218 km (1,378 miles) as the crow flies, or 2,675 km (1,662 miles) by road.

    Bottom line is the same: if Hitler was an innocent lamb bent on protecting Germany from enemies, he’d have no problems with logistics and had the population friendly to his troops. His desire to conquer enormous territories populated by the people who did not want to be conquered made his defeat in WWII inevitable.

    • Replies: @JMcG
  264. @Hamlet's Ghost

    “Barbarossa was Hitler’s greatest gamble to destroy the Soviet Union and seize its resources
    before the Western powers gained enough strength to overwhelm Germany.”

    Now, this is very different justification for the 1941 German aggression against the Soviet Union then “to preempt an imminent Soviet attack and save Europe” offered here, don’t you think.

    “Germany had few options from the beginning of the war til the end.”

    This is easily solved: don’t go to war.

  265. @Hamlet's Ghost

    [Germany’s] greatest vulnerability was lack of resources, with petroleum most prominently featured. Hitler knew this, which is why he hammered the point relentlessly throughout the war.

    Thanks for making that point.

    Doesn’t really matter whether Russian tanks or German tanks were better (tho it appears Russians were both more suitable to the terrain, more easily built therefore far more numerous).

    What matters is who had the petroleum to use them.
    Germany did not.

    • Agree: John Wear
  266. JMcG says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Tiger 1 deployed in late 1942, Panther was mid 1943, in time for Kursk.

  267. JMcG says:
    @AnonFromTN

    The Soviets conquered vast territories full of unwilling subjects and yet they didn’t lose.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  268. @JMcG

    Don’t you think that there is a contradiction in your statement? If they really conquered territories with unwilling subjects, they would have lost. In fact, Stalin occupied only several small totally insignificant pieces where a substantial fraction of the population was unwilling: three Baltic statelets and a piece of Eastern Poland (which today, after Volhynia massacre of Poles, is called Western Ukraine).

    • Replies: @ivan
  269. I’m skeptical that Stalin planned to attack Hitler in 1941. I’m NOT skeptical he planned to attack in 1942. The USSR plans for tank/airplane production were astronomical in 1941, and its only Operation Barbarossa that delayed their implementation. Plus the USSR had Nazi Germany in a vise. The Germans need Finnish Nickel, Romanian Oil, and various metals/wheat from the USSR itself. A a quick Soviet Offensive taking over the Romanian Oil Fields and Finnish Nickel mines + cutting off USSR-Germany Trade, would’ve put Nazi Germany in an awkward position

    • Agree: ivan
    • Replies: @Mike P
  270. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Seraphim

    So, I criticize Suvorov’s conclusions in the book “The Chief Culprit” and to convince me of the contrary you recommend to read the book!

    If you keep reading it over and over and over again it might become true!

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  271. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Hamlet's Ghost

    German generals like Guderian and von Mellinthin openly declared the T-34 far superior to anything in the Wehrmacht’s arsenal in 1941.

    German generals like Guderian and von Mellinthin were desperate to find excuses for their defeat. Their postwar memoirs have to be approached with extreme caution.

  272. Seraphim says:
    @dfordoom

    Yes, the technique of the “Big Lie”.

  273. Mike P says:
    @Honesthughgrant

    I’m skeptical that Stalin planned to attack Hitler in 1941. I’m NOT skeptical he planned to attack in 1942.

    He originally planned to attack in 1940; only Germany’s unexpectedly quick victory in the West prevented it. That is at least the gist of Bernd Schwipper’s book “Deutschland im Visier Stalins” (Germany in Stalin’s cross hairs). Schwipper is a former East German general, who is fluent in Russian and spent several years researching the topic in Russian libraries.

  274. ivan says:
    @AnonFromTN

    One man with a gun, can rule a hundred without one.

    — VI Lenin

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  275. ivan says:
    @Alden

    The obligatory BS about the “greatness” of Islamic civilisation is always used in contrast with the alleged backwardness of Christians. When as you say anything “great” about Islam is only due to the original civilisations it conquered. It is more or less fitting that anything original from the Arabs have their signature fakery and exaggerations, tall stories like Sinbad or the Arabian Nights or even h/ell the Queeran itself. And when they do find someone credible like Ibn Khaldun, the academics flip over themselves in praising rather pedestrian observations as gems of political wisdom.

    • Agree: Seraphim
  276. @ivan

    Lenin was wrong there: a man needs to sleep. As soon as he falls asleep, the gun would be taken from him. So, someone else will rule until that someone else falls asleep, too. And so it goes.

  277. Seraphim says:
    @Hamlet's Ghost

    Barbarossa was Hitler’s greatest gamble. But even its name was a bad omen. The Emperor Frederick Barbarossa died ingloriously when leading the Third Crusade “the most meticulously planned and organized up to that time”, by falling from his horse into a river where weighed down by his armour, he drowned. The Crusade fizzled out, his huge army disbanded immediately and fled back to Germany and that was the beginning of the reversal of the Crusading effort. Jerusalem was lost forever and in exactly 100 years all Crusaders were driven out of Palestine.

  278. You hear a lot of comment about “conspiracy theory” regarding the ridiculous amount of people that would need to be “in on it”.

    Rendering said “theory” invalid because muh too many people.

    I see it only needs to be a well placed cadre of hoi Ioudaioi and bam! You have a conspiracy so large one dare not mention it!

  279. @Walter

    The Trotskyist methods being used on Civilization with such horrible effect, the false flags, the murders, the perversions and atomization, the cries of racism (that was a term Trotsky used to de-legitimize opponents) – these are the instruments of the cryptonazi CFR types, quintessentially Fascist.

    Now that’s some serious chutzpah. Talk long enough and soon black is white, up is down, and yes is no!

    Trotsky was a communist leader, as were Stalin, Lenin, Mao, Pol Pot, and Castro. All of them murdered opponents, and the first three started long before the fascist movements got started. Therefore their methods aren’t fascist, they’re Communist.

    Next you’re going to call the founding fathers socialist because of E. Pluribus Unum, and call the Belgians Nazis because of their treatment of the Congo. Was Hoh Chi Minh a gun rights activist because he gave guns to peasants?

  280. @Brabantian

    Those firebomb raids required hundreds of planes, involving thousands of aircrew and many more multiples of ground crew. They didn’t just appear out of nowhere, it basically required an entire army of people to carry out. Such an operation would be impossible to keep a lid on, and we would be hearing about the “nuclear hoax” theory long before 2016. It would at least be kicking around like UFOs, the moon landing, POW/MIA or the Kennedy assassination.

  281. @Alden

    “Wear’s writing about facts and history, not obscure philosophy.”

    He is writing about a hypothetical development of events, events that never happened and his writing is based on personal understandings and/or preferences.
    “Soviet Union was going to attack and conquer Europe if not preempted by Hitler.”
    This is not a fact, this is an interpretation.
    The only fact is that Hitler did attack Soviet Union.

    • Agree: dfordoom
    • Replies: @John Wear
  282. John Wear says:
    @Simpleguest

    Simpleguest,

    Viktor Suvorov’s book “The Chief Culprit” makes it clear that Hitler’s attack of the Soviet Union was preemptive. I think anyone who objectively examined the evidence would reach this conclusion.

  283. @JOHN CHUCKMAN

    Yes, we already read about his inbreeding (Jewish background) and the problems it likely engendered.

  284. Seraphim says:
    @AnonFromTN

    The fact that Suvorov’s book sold in millions of copies suggests that it was a massive ‘perception management’ exercise.
    The ‘Chief Culprit’ (2008) is simply a rehash of the ‘Icebreaker’ of 1990, meant to reignite the dying revisionist controversy at a significant moment.
    2008 is the year of the NATO Summit in Bucharest, which decided the enlargement of NATO by inviting Albania and Croatia to join and “welcoming Ukraine’s and Georgia’s Euro-Atlantic aspirations for membership in NATO” agreeing that these countries will become members of NATO. Obviously to ‘prevent’ the looming ‘aggression’ of Russia. It is the year when Kosovo declared independence. And of course the year when Russia ‘confirmed’ its eternal policy of ‘aggression’ by ‘invading’ Georgia.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  285. @Seraphim

    That explains the timing. But the basic fact that Rezun is a lying piece of shit is still needed to explain the contents.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  286. Seraphim says:
    @AnonFromTN

    The first version was emitted in 1990 (The Icebreaker). Try to remember what happened in those years that preceded and followed the fall of the Berlin Wall. Soviet ‘aggression’ in Afghanistan, Solidarnosc in Poland, the assassination of Ceausescu, the reunification of Germany, the dissolution of Warsaw Pact. The reunification of Germany entailed a revision of Germany’s responsibility for starting the war and a change of Germany’s tarnished image, adopting Hitler’s thesis of preventive war. But there were still ideological barriers that were preventing the West to suddenly change course – the war was officially the ‘antifascist’ war. So, what a better solution than put an ‘insider’ let the cat out of the bag and from there let the West ‘discover’ the ‘truth’ (like the ‘shock’ of the Western Communists when they ‘discovered’ the crimes of Stalin – as if they didn’t know all the time). Rezun was a defector, he published already books about Soviet military and intelligence, so he passed as a specialist with inside knowledge. He is Ukrainian, BTW. The facts he presented were real (the mobilization plans for the eventuality of a war with Germany were not different from the plans of WW1), their interpretation was skewed.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  287. @Seraphim

    Yes, the most effective lies have an element of truth in them, which the liars point to, when challenged.

    BTW, the fact that Rezun was Ukrainian is irrelevant. E.g., Vlasov was Russian, which does not make him a lesser a scum.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  288. Seraphim says:
    @AnonFromTN

    I don’t think that’s irrelevant. His vocal support for ‘Ukraine’ and demonization of Russia suggests otherwise. He was an intelligence officer and that suggests that he was a MI6 asset (he defected to Britain) before his defection which happened, in all probability, when his cover was blown-up.

    Vlasov did not defect, he was taken prisoner by the Germans and he was ‘turned’ by former ‘White’ officer Wilfried Karl Strik-Strikfeldt, a Baltic ‘Volksdeutsche’ from Riga, ‘repatriated’ to Germany in 1939, after the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. Hitler and Himmler resisted up to 1944 to the formation of a ‘Russian Liberation Army’ from Russian prisoners and treated Vlasov with suspicion all the time, keeping him under house arrest until 1944 (when they recognized their enormous blunders and started to appeal to all nationalists from occupied countries they kept in camps). Strik-Strikfeld himself affirmed that “The fact is that Hitler will have nothing to do with Vlasov.”
    Anyhow the declared aims of Vlasov exposed in ‘The Prague Manifesto’ of November 14, 1944 were:
    “The aims of the Committee of Liberation of the Peoples of Russia are: the overthrow of Stalin’s tyranny, the liberation of the peoples of Russia from the Bolshevik system, and the restitution of those rights to the peoples of Russia which they fought for and won in the people’s revolution of 1917”. In the last days of the war the units of Vlasov in Czechoslovakia turned arms against the Nazis, but too late.
    The Ukrainian National Committee and other non-Russian organizations, however, refused to join the Committee; they specifically ‘rejected its Russian imperialist, nationalist ideology and Vlasov’s claim to speak on behalf of the non-Russians, and disbelieved its promise that the non-Russians would have national self-determination after the destruction of Bolshevism’.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  289. @Seraphim

    The story of Vlasov’s becoming prisoner has very damning details. He abandoned his troops when his army got surrounded, and tried to get out with a small group of officers of his staff. He changed uniform to that of a soldier, and when the Germans captured him and he thought that they might just shoot him, he told them that he is a general. Besides, the fact that he agreed to serve Germany is inexcusable.

    Hitler did not trust him because nobody trusts traitors. Everyone despises traitors, including those who use their services. It turned out that Hitler had a point: having betrayed the USSR, Vlasov then betrayed Germans, as well. His “army” actually tried to get to where they could surrender to the US troops. Basically, trying to save their asses, as they knew what the Soviets would do with them. They did, and in my book, in that case the Soviets were 100% right.

    Vlasov’s manifestos are totally irrelevant: he was not an independent player. His attempts to pretend that he is are no more plausible than similar attempts by Bandera. You might be influenced by recent events in Ukraine. Thing is, it is very likely that the US suzerains of current Ukrainian clowns, Porky and Ze, despise them even more than Russians do.

    So, I see no difference between those who attempted to serve as Hitler’s sidekicks and those who later attempted to serve as the US sidekicks, like Rezun. All of them are equally contemptible.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  290. Seraphim says:
    @AnonFromTN

    But you would applaud the ‘treason’ of General Friedrich Paulus who while in Soviet captivity became a vocal critic of the Nazi regime and joined the Soviet-sponsored National Committee for a Free Germany (NKFD), appealing to Germans to surrender. And the German prisoners who fought on the side of the Soviets. But ‘history is written by the winners’. Were not Washington, Franklin, the ‘Founding Fathers’ traitors?

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  291. @Seraphim

    To the best of my knowledge, general Paulus never abandoned his troops and never masqueraded as a private. As to him serving on that committee, if true, it was not something to be proud of. I’ve never heard of captured Germans fighting on the Soviet side. I doubt very much that it ever happened. Still, do you have a link with reliable (not propaganda) info?

    To the best of my knowledge founding fathers did not serve in Royal government, so they had nothing to betray. Besides, they fought for independence, rather than participating in a fight between empires and switching sides. That is a totally different ball game.

  292. Seraphim says:

    There is controversy, of course (and for understandable reasons), but the ‘Seydlitztruppen’ (Seydlitz-Troops) and the ‘Bund Deutscher Offiziere’ have really existed.
    If declassified CIA reports are Nazi or Soviet propaganda, so be it:
    https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP82-00457R001600760007-8.pdf:
    “SOVIET INDOCTRINATED GERMANS AT WUNSDORF; SEYDLITZ TROOPS AT MINSK-SUD”
    Document Type:

    [MORE]

    CREST
    Collection:
    General CIA Records
    Document Number (FOIA) /ESDN (CREST):
    CIA-RDP82-00457R001600760007-8
    Release Decision:
    RIPPUB
    Original Classification:
    S
    Document Page Count:
    2
    Document Creation Date:
    December 15, 2016
    Document Release Date:
    March 14, 2001
    Sequence Number:
    7
    Case Number:
    Publication Date:
    July 8, 1948
    Content Type:
    REPORT
    File:
    Attachment:CIA-RDP82-00457R001600760007-8.pdf

    It confirms what were only rumors during the war: “that trophy Fw-190 and Me-109 emblazoned with red stars used by Soviet pilots to scatter propagandistic leaflets and for reconnaissance missions were led by Seydlitz’s German pilots”, “that along with the Soviets Berlin was stormed by “Seydlitz’s troops in German uniform with awards and red banners on their sleeves -“Germans against Germans!”
    They formed the nucleus of the future NVA (Nationale Volksarmee) of the DDR.
    George Washigton was a high-ranking officer of British Colonial Army and fought in the clash between the British colonial Empire and French colonial Empite. Besides he was a member of Virginia legislature.

  293. Woke says:

    A Russian jew obviously.

  294. How many countries have the US blackmailed with the BOMB? and they are still doing it.. Its a terrible weapon in the hands of evil and the US has proven themselves to be the ultimate epitome of evil incarnate.

  295. MarkinLA says:
    @Daniel Rich

    Perhaps you should add to the above the fact that these ‘human waves’ were armed with bamboo sticks…?

    Perhaps you should look at 1940’s style amphibious landing craft to see just how limited it is when it comes to disembarking soldiers. How many soldiers died at Normandy due to drowning or getting machine gunned while slogging through the surf, never reaching the edge of the water. This is just the perfect place for some drug crazed spear armed nut to run up and kill you. Even if you manage to kill 10 for every GI killed, you don’t have enough GIs to complete the landing.

  296. MarkinLA says:
    @Daniel Rich

    Is it ‘coincidence’ the US/Allies dropped an uranium gun-type bomb (“Little Boy”) on Hiroshima and a plutonium implosion bomb (“Fat Man”) on Nagasaki 3 days later?

    What coincidence, it was all the US had. The Japanese military did not want to surrender. They guessed that the US could not produce more than one bomb a month given the state of technology and they were right.

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