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Turkey's Dangerous Game
Turkey's duplicity threatens the entire region

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Turkey borders several Middle Eastern countries that are either unstable or potentially hostile to it, sometimes both simultaneously. With a modern military of more than 600,000 underwritten by NATO membership it is regional superpower whose ability to dominate the politics of its neighbors is sometimes exercised. Turkey has a large and educated population, a vibrant diversified economy and is at the crossroads of east and west, Asia and Europe. Together with Egypt, it is truly the indispensable nation if anyone wants to seriously consider influencing developments in the Near East.

It is perhaps Turkey’s indispensability that is part of the problem, as it has given its current government a hubristic sense of entitlement that has developed into a conceit that it can be the arbiter for all its neighbors while also transforming itself into an autocracy at home. President Recep Tayyip Erdogan is attempting to turn the country’s traditionally fractious party politics into one party rule with himself at the helm. In so doing he has created what some call an “illiberal democracy” where dissent is systematically repressed and elections are rigged to favor his incumbency.

Erdogan has largely destroyed his country’s independent media by imprisoning and intimidating journalists, has not hesitated to characterize protesters as “terrorists” before having them beaten and shot, has packed the military and intelligence services with his own supporters, and has hobbled the judiciary and police. In Turkey it is now a crime to “insult” a public official. The law is strictly enforced regarding Erdogan. A man was fired from his job and is facing two years in prison for comparing the president to Gollum, the character in Lord of the Rings.

As president, Erdogan was not allowed to get involved in parliamentary elections in June and October, but he instead campaigned relentlessly on behalf of his Justice and Development Party (AKP). As the margin in parliament opposing him consisted of a Kurdish Party he unilaterally restarted a civil war with the Kurds and fear-mongered recklessly before calling for a snap election, resulting in AKP’s regaining its parliamentary majority.

Erdogan has taken a largely secular republic and turned it into a state increasingly run on Islamic principles, funding religious schools, introducing religious curricula at universities, converting historic churches into mosques and also building hundreds of unneeded new mosques. He has supported legislation outlawing the drinking of alcohol in public and has instructed stewardesses on the state owned Turkish Airlines not to wear makeup. He has made religiosity a prerequisite for high office. One almost has the sense that there is nothing that he would not dare to do.

Ankara’s recent shoot down of a Russian bomber that might or might not have strayed briefly into Turkish airspace was a very bad mistake as it made clear to all concerned that the Erdogan phenomenon has a very reckless side. Turkey, to its credit, has not tried to argue that the incident was a mistake ordered by a lower level military officer and, given the sensitivity of shooting down a foreign warplane, one has to assume that the decision to do so must have originated at the very top of the government. Media reports suggest that Russian bombing of ethnically Turkish Turkmen insurgents inside Syria had inflamed opinion while the Turkish military was exasperated by repeated Russian violations of its airspace, but the premeditated and deliberate targeting of a Russian plane, which is surely what took place, would have been a high risk low gain option at the best of times. Under normal circumstances, when a plane accidentally enters someone’s airspace, military jets are scrambled to escort the intruder out, but in this case a kill order was obviously in place, a drastic step that could have easily led to a regional war or even worse if Ankara had somehow been able to convince NATO to get involved on its behalf.

Turkey shot down the Russian plane because Moscow was effective in the fight against the Syrian insurgency, to include ISIS, enabling the Syrian army to recover lost territory. As Turkey is nominally a U.S. ally in combatting ISIS going after another de facto ally would seem to be a strange choice, but it ignores the fact that Ankara has been duplicitous from the beginning in terms of its real objectives. Turkey has been reckless in allowing jihadists to travel through it both coming from Europe and returning from the battlefields of Syria. Turkey’s major strategic goals in the Syrian civil war have everything to do with striking the Kurds and removing Bashar al-Assad from power. Erdogan has no interest at all in defeating ISIS, quite the contrary.

Ankara has studiously avoided attacking ISIS because its true objective is to prevent the formation of any Kurdish State, which would in part be on a considerable piece of Turkish territory if it were fully realized. The animus being directed against Syrian President Bashar al Assad is due to the fact that Ankara believes him to be complicit in supporting anti-Turkish Kurdish rebels along the border. That means the Erdogan is using the war against ISIS as a cover for his own agenda, which is bombing the Kurds and eliminating the Syrian government as a potential supporter of dissident Turkish Kurds who might be using Syrian territory as a safe haven.

Indeed, one might reasonably go a step farther to assert that Turkey has been an ally of ISIS, supporting from the beginning radical Sunni groups that eventually came together to form the terrorist organization. When I was last in Istanbul in July 2014, ISIS supporters were seen in various Istanbul neighborhoods collecting money to support their cause. There have since that time been frequent reports of ISIS militants moving back and forth across the Syria-Turkish border without any interference from Ankara. It has been suggested that wounded militants were routinely treated in Turkish hospitals and allowed to recuperate and rearm inside Turkey. There have also been widely observed movements of weapons into Syria to arm ISIS organized by Erdogan’s government. Recently two well-known Turkish journalists were arrested for reporting on the arms movements. They face years in prison if convicted, which will surely be the case.

Turkey is also proving to be an opportunist vis-à-vis its European neighbors. It has been taking advantage of the refugee crisis, which it has helped create, and exploited legitimate fear of ISIS infiltration. Erdogan has promised to slow the human wave engulfing Europe only if the European Union comes up with 3 billion Euros to cover expenses.

The Turkish people wisely are resistant to military engagement outside Turkey’s borders so the government of Erdogan has considered desperate expedients to create a casus belli to justify waging its own particular war against the Kurds on Syrian soil. Back in 2014 it plotted with its intelligence chief Hakan Fidan to stage a false flag attack on the tomb of Turkish Sultan Suleyman Shah, which for historical reasons is located inside Syria and is guarded by Turkish soldiers. It would have meant killing fellow Turks to create an incident that would have justified massive retaliation and direct intervention in Syria.

More recently there have been a number of attacks inside Turkey that have been attributed to ISIS but which just as plausibly might be credited to the Turkish intelligence service MIT. One bombing in Ankara in October, attributed alternatively to ISIS and to Kurds, killed 102 and was particularly suspicious coming as it did shortly before elections. The various attacks were exploited to increase government pressure on the Kurdish minority and to weaken the opposition People’s Democratic Party (HDP), which is largely Kurdish. The so-called ISIS attacks also were used to create the impression to the U.S. and NATO allies that Turkey was actually in the fight against the Islamic State even though it really was not. The White House, frustrated by the Turkish inaction, was not fooled by the charade but it felt that it was in no position to contradict Erdogan.

And then there is the money aspect. Turkey has long been the principal buyer and exporter of the oil ISIS has been extracting from fields in Syria and Iraq, just as it bought Iranian petroleum when that nation was under sanction. The business is the principal source of funding for ISIS and is also an extremely profitable family enterprise for the Erdogan family. The president’s son Bilal is the principal owner of BMZ Group Denizcilik, which has tankers that move the oil to other markets, mostly in Asia but also including Israel, where the provenance of the petroleum is not an issue. A police and judicial investigation into Bilal’s activities initiated in 2013, which also included his brother Burak as well as the sons of many other prominent government officials, was halted when Erdogan intervened to fire or remove the policemen and judges involved, claiming that he was the victim of a “judicial coup.” A phone call from then Prime Minister Erdogan to his son reportedly included advice to remove all the cash from the safe at home and hide it.

Meanwhile Erdogan’s son-in-law Berat Albayrak, perhaps not surprisingly Turkey’s Minister of Energy, presides over both the ISIS exports and the pipeline that illegally ships 600,000 barrels a day of oil from Iraqi Kurdistan to the Turkish port of Ceyhan, where it is loaded on Bilal’s ships. Iraq has complained to the United Nations Security Council about the direct export of the Kurdistan oil, which violates agreements reached in December 2014 for the sale of Iraq’s petroleum. A Turkish parliamentarian Eren Erdem, who has tried to expose the fraud, commented “What a brilliant family business!” Erdem for his pains was denounced by a government newspaper as an “American puppet, Israeli agent, a supporter of the terrorist PKK and the instigator of a coup.”

Turkey under President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, who is now seeking to increase his own considerable de facto powers, has certainly become a danger to all its neighbors but mostly inflicts damage on itself. The Turkish people deserve much better. Conflict with Russia served no national interest unless one considers meddling in Syria to be a sustainable policy objective. Deliberately embroiling NATO in the premeditated shootdown of a military aircraft surely sent shock waves through both Washington and Brussels, even if both tepidly endorsed Turkey’s alleged manifestation of self-defense. Erdogan has become, internationally speaking, the proverbial loose cannon on deck. No one knows which way he will roll, but everyone has become absolutely certain that the results will be very, very damaging.

 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: Kurds, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, Syria, Turkey

155 Comments to "Turkey's Dangerous Game"

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  1. Few bother to read history. This is all about the Ottoman Empire, Long after the Turks loss in WW I, the Brits and French stole their land, oil rich land, even that occupied by native Turkomen. The Turks cooperated with the invasion of Iraq and Syria with promises they could recover their land, and HAD DONE SO. Turkish troops took over parts of Iraq years ago (safe havens if you will), and were taking over THEIR land in French created Syria. Then the Russians showed up.

    The Americans allowed the Turkish Generals to make millions off of looted Iraqi and Syrian oil, openly moved by big truck tankers to Turkey, making big bucks for them and their ISIS allies. Then the Russians showed up and bombed their racket! The Turk Generals were so angry they shot down a Russian aircraft. The USA acted surprised, as was required for Turkish help. Now Iraq is complaining about Turkish troops and tanks near Mosul, which Turk Generals openly state is a Turkish city.

    Good Luck with this mess.

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  2. interesting. so what about the arabs in these lands that turks occupied for so long, maybe comparable to the occupation of Greece…400 years I understand. Nobody today would grant Turkey an irredentist case to take back Greece, right?

    There is an old argument that Palestinians have been screwed by both Turks and Jews with regard to the “purchase” by jews from Turks of Palestinian land. Is any of this true?

    Joe Webb

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  3. Erdogan wouldn’t dare attack a Russian military aircraft w/o clearance from DC. This was a test of Putin’s response, and he failed the test. Neo-conz will now ratchet higher: maybe even close the Straits. Now that would be interesting

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  4. Turkey has a large and educated population, a vibrant diversified economy and is at the crossroads of east and west, Asia and Europe. Together with Egypt, it is truly the indispensable nation if anyone wants to seriously consider influencing developments in the Near East.

    Oops, Mr Giraldi starts with a(n obsolete) quote from the CIA Facts Book, which best illustrates the Western view of Turkey (only partially correct, of course). But Giraldi is absolutely right that if people (of the West) are treating you as if you were a royalty, that is a sultan, you start believing that you are a sultan. And in the eternal words of Mel Brooks: “It is good to be the king, pardon, the sultan.”

    Turkey, to its credit, has not tried to argue that the incident was a mistake ordered by a lower level military officer and, given the sensitivity of shooting down a foreign warplane

    Hmm, hmm, is Giraldi hinting at what my suspicion has been from the start – that a Turkish airforce general has been blackmailed/paid-off by the CIA to pool off the shoot-down stunt (not that Turks were not very angry at Russia already for killing moderate Turkmen terrorists), whilst the sultan would never admit that he still lacks full control over his, now “private”, Turkish military? The West wants Turkey on its side and wants Turkey fighting Russia, but it does not want an ambitious, self-assured, supra-regional super-power Turkey. Ah, the good ol’ Western divide and rule, Russia and Turkey at each other throat instead of economic friends. Two birds with one stone, both the sultan and the pesky Russian “dictator” in the dust.

    Finally, as far as the sultan is concerned, he just cannot understand why the West object so much to his extra-curricular activity of earning a nice pension for himself and his family by trading in the Iraqi and Syrian stolen oil. What has the World come to if a good looking Turkish sultan (who the criminals compare with Ghoul) cannot make Turkey the primary or secondary (after Mecca) center of Sunni religiosity whist greasing his palms with a few cool billions of oil money? A great effort should be rewarded, should’t it?

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  5. And let’s not overlook Turkey’s role in the sarin gas attack at Ghouta, Syria, an attempt to draw the USA into bombing Assad. According to a Turkish member of parliament:

    “The investigation clearly indicates that those people who smuggled the chemicals required to procure sarin faced no difficulties, proving that Turkish intelligence was aware of their activities”

    http://www.todayszaman.com/national_chp-deputies-govt-rejects-probe-into-turkeys-role-in-syrian-chemical-attack_402180.html

    • Agree: Orville H. Larson
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  6. FYI, Turkey is an empire spreading from Vienna in the West, all the way to and including XinJiang, just ask the sultan. If there are two Turks in a place, it is Turkish, just ask the sultan.

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  7. When enough Turks can afford and become addicted to the products of Western affluence, there could be a turning of the tide – back towards secularisation of the masses.

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  8. Anonymous
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    Turkey has a large and educated population, a vibrant diversified economy

    Turkey is a relatively poor country. It has a GDP per capita (nominal) this year of about 9000 dollars, a currency that is depreciating, and no future growth in the coming years. It is a diversified economy in that manufacturing output is its primary export but even during the boom years was unable to manufacture enough to create sustained current account surpluses.

    Economically it is a mediocre country trying to accomplish too much internationally without the industrial base to back it up.

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  9. “Ah, the good ol’ Western divide and rule, Russia and Turkey at each other throat instead of economic friends. Two birds with one stone, both the sultan and the pesky Russian “dictator” in the dust.”

    This is exactly what I ws thinking, having two regional powers at each other throats works very well for the Neocons and Israel.

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  10. Time to render Turkey a failed state. Oh! Islam is gaining, the failure is on the way.

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  11. the fact that Ankara has been duplicitous from the beginning in terms of its real objectives

    All very well as far as the generally valid criticisms of Turkish policies are concerned, but it really is a bit of a damned cheek for an American to accuse the Turks of duplicity in terms of their objectives in Syria.

    In the end, the local players are just regional powers at most. It’s the US superpower that has enabled, authorised and backed their attempt at regime change in Syria from the beginning, and that is therefore directly responsible for the catastrophe that Syria has become. US duplicity, in terms of pretending to fight IS whilst hoping it will bring down the Syrian government for them, is unmatched.

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  12. Turk-Arab hate has been legendry after the collapse of the Ottoman empire. Most Turks still consider Arabs as traitors to Islam for aiding Western colonialists against the Turk Caliphate.

    Turkey is 99.7% Muslim nation-state which was ruled by pro-West by Donmeh (Crypto-Jews) since 1923. Turkey is the only Muslim member of NATO – rejected by EU for its desire to join the group for the last 20 years.

    The Zionist-controlled has used president Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s rhetoric to portray him an “Islamists”, a label he has denied himself. In fact, Erdogan has maintained very good relations with the local and American Organized Jewry. In 2006, Abraham Foxman former national director of ADL gave Erdogan group’s highest award for his services toward world Jewry and Israel.

    On March 30, 2013, The Jew York Times, in an Op-Ed warned PM Erdogan that his dream of ‘Ottoman Revival’ is over because his party AKP has lost its popularity for distancing Turkey from Israel, criticizing Egypt’s Crypto-Jewish military dictator Gen. al-Sisi while refusing to help his Crimean Turk brothers against Russian invaders .

    In 2010, Turkey’s first Islamist prime minister and political mentor of Erdogan, professor Necmettin Erbakan, claimed that the ruling AKP is controlled by the world Zionism.

    “Why on earth did the AK Party give a ‘go ahead’ to the membership of Israel in the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development and not block membership? Why did the government consent to multi-billion dollars worth of defense contracts with Israeli firms? Erdoğan says ‘one-minute’ to Peres during Davos but conducts business as usual with the Zionist state. This is hypocrisy,” Erbakan said.

    http://rehmat1.com/2015/03/26/whistleblower-turkey-is-still-ruled-by-crypto-jews/

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  13. It’s the US superpower that has enabled, authorised and backed their attempt at regime change in Syria from the beginning, and that is therefore directly responsible for the catastrophe that Syria has become.

    Couldn’t agree more. But you forgot to mention who is driving US foreign policy in the ME.

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  14. {…while refusing to help his Crimean Turk brothers against Russian invaders .}

    Where did Crimean Tatar Turks come from ?
    Let me see: oh yes, like all other Uyguroğlar nomad Turkic tribes, Crimean Tatars invaded Crimea from East Asia. Russians are a lot nearer to Crimea than Turkic nomads from Uyguristan.

    Pretty rich for a Turkophile IslamoFascist to accuse Russians of being “invaders”.

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  15. Excellent synopsis Mr Giraldi,

    It does seem that Erdogan has , over the past four years, made the move to “the dark side”of empire and war.

    The days of championing the Brazil/Iran nuclear fuel swap…..or the “Freedom Flotilla’s” heroic attempt to punch a hole in the brutal siege on the beleaguered and battered people of Gaza….

    …..are gone.

    One wonders what sort of “backroom” levers of power were exerted on the once and seemingly “fair minded” Erdogan…. propelling the” hopeful” state of Turkey along with its leader into the arms of aggression, conflict, despotism and war.

    No doubt there was a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” moment in time, where Erdogan, in feeling the big squeeze, like an iron vice on the throat of his” future”, took the “tithe of tyranny” and capitulated.

    • Agree: Orville H. Larson
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  16. Avery, your historical account is not accurate. Crimian Tatars are not Uygurs etc. Before you say things are not correct, check you facts, please.

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  17. I wrote Uyguroğlar: meaning descendants from Turkic tribes whose homeland is in East Asia, Uyguristan.

    You are not claiming that Crimean Tatars are indigenous to Crimea, are you ?

    Bonus questions:
    -where did the Turks who currently inhabit Asia Minor come from ?
    -who were the indigenous peoples of Asia Minor ?
    -what happened to them ?

    Extra bonus question: what percentage of Christian Cyprus is currently occupied by invadonomad Uyguroğlar IslamoFascist Turks ?

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  18. “Few bother to read history”. And are you claiming to be one who does read history?. Start with your saying “long after the Turk’s loss in World War 1″ and try giving a plausible account of chronology. As a history reader you would be aware that British forces were in control of nearly all formerly Ottoman ruled Arab territories even before the end of the war. Then there is your use of the word “stole” which is not the word of any kind of scholar either historian or lawyer. And it is very odd indeed in the light of the fact that you are referring to almost wholly Arab lands “stolen” from their rulers by Ottoman Turks a few hundred years earlier but remaining ethnically, linguistically and culturally Arab. Furthermore the legal status was determined by Mandates from the League of Nations rather than the criminal appropriation implied by “stole”. And you don’t seem better informed about oil. Where did the French have any significant oil producing territory?

    Sorry, you rank as too ignorant or careless with the truth to have your opinions taken seriously.

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  19. Who will fight for the U.S. against ISIS? | Phil Ebersole's Blog
    says:
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    […] Turkey’s Dangerous Game by Mike Whitney for The Unz Review. […]

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  20. Let us not forget, the European Jews now occupying Palestine are also descendants of Turks and Mongols living in Khazaria.

    The Ottoman Turks established one the greatest empire in the modern history. Cyprus, like other foreign occupied Muslim regions (Palestine, Kashmir, Chechnya, Bosnia, etc.), is also a victim of the western double standard in which the ZOG United Nations prostitute for the colonial interests of the western powers – as it did in the cases of western invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq.

    Both Greece and Cyprus are members of the EU, which regards Turkish Muslim part of Cyprus as a “foreign occupied” land.

    Ottoman Muslims captured Athens in 1458 CE – and ruled most part of Greece until 1821 CE. Muslim armies captured Cyrus in 1571 CE. Ottoman rule lasted till 1878 CE – after which Britain took over. When Ottoman sided with Germany in WW I – the British annexed Cyprus in 1925 and governed it as its Crown colony till 1960 – when the Turkish-Cypriot and Greek-Cypriot communities declared the island as independent Republic of Cyprus, guaranteed by Britain, Greece and Turkey. In 1963, communal riots erupted due to disparity between the Greek and Turk communities. In 1974, Greek military officers carried a military coup against Archbishop Makarios’ government in their effort to unite the island with Greece. In order to protect the Turkish-Cyprus communities – Turk forces landed on the island and under their patronage, the Turk-Cyprus communities declared an independent Turkish Federated State of Cyprus. In 1983 – the name was changed to Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (TRNC). In 2003 borders between the Greek-Cypriot entity in the South and the Turkish-Cypriot entity in the North of Cyprus were opened to both communities. In 2004, a referendum on uniting the island under UN sponsorship, was accepted by the Turkish-Cypriots but rejected by the Greek-Cypriots.

    http://rehmat1.com/2009/09/26/cyprus-the-victim-of-western-double-standard/

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  21. No, I do not claim Crimians Tatars are indigenous people of the area. But who is? There is no such calling as Uygurogullar. I don’t know where you picked up that term. Nothing happened to indigenous people of Asia minor. They are there still. The invading Mongols has been incorporated into them, as their numbers were less then 20% As for Cyprus question, you must be Greek from there and full of anger. Thus your distorted history and view. Islamo Fascist? You are going too far. Not worth answering.

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  22. It’s a bit tempted to play the devil’s advocate but I think Erdogan’s game might bring a more humiliating situation for Turkey who could get its territory diminishing, perhaps even more to what was proposed at the Treaty of Sevres.

    http://www.theinternationalchronicles.com/forget_sykes_picot_it_s_the_treaty_of_s_vres_that_explains_the_modern_middle_east

    http://www.robswebstek.com/2009/04/treaty-of-sevres.html

    On a off-topic sidenote, I spotted this blog post from July 2013

    http://thezman.com/wordpress/?p=43

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  23. I agree. In what are the Turks educated ? Certainly not science. They have no claim to an intelligent society.

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  24. to create the impression to the U.S. and NATO allies that Turkey was actually in the fight against the Islamic State even though it really was not. The White House, frustrated by the Turkish inaction, was not fooled by the charade but it felt that it was in no position to contradict Erdogan.

    curious that Mr. Giraldi believes Erdogan is acting on his own volition, and in contempt of zio-US-NATO. Would Erdogan even fart in Putin’s direction without permission from NATO?

    So Turkey shot down the Russian jet on its own accord? And zio-US/NATO wishes Turkey would do more to fight ISIS?

    All very curious.

    It seems to me that Turkey and Erdogan are acting much like Georgia did when McCain had his stooge Saakashvili provoke Putin by marching into South Ossetia and Abkhazia. Or Ukraine when McCain and Nuland used Porky in Kiev to provoke Putin. It seems to me that these tin-pot sock-puppets are just remarkably easy to manipulate, even against the Russian bear.

    Saakashvili, Porky, the sultan- are all just vain, self-important little marionettes, who are easily puffed up into grandiose visions of themselves by promises of US backing. They’re basically just power-greedy little stooges willing to sell their souls to the devil to prance around like they’re reincarnated Suleiman the Magnificents. They’re not. They’re stooges who lick the hands of the powerful and serve as their dogs, and I don’t think for one second that a man like ‘the sultan’ would have the nads in a thousand years to provoke a man like Putin were it not for ironclad guarantees by zio-US/NATO that he won’t come to any harm. On the contrary, he’ll be guaranteed all kinds of perks.

    Turkey is a tail that does not wag the zio-dog. In this case at least, it is the dog that is using ‘the sultan’ every bit as its tail.

    at least IMHO

    But I differ to the author’s expertise.

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  25. Duplicity is all around, of course. Not just in Turkey but in Israel, as Giraldi has documented many times.

    Same with US. US elites say ‘we love Muslims’ as cover to destroy the Muslim world.

    It’s like Vietnam. US destroyed it in the name of saving it.
    To be sure, commies were bad stuff, but US had no right intervening in the first place and colluding with the French to divide that country, thereby creating conditions for a Civil War.

    There was a time when it was okay to hate. Mongols conquered because they felt like it. They made no excuses for it.
    But in our ‘anti-racist’ and ‘anti-imperialist’ world(at least by rhetoric and official ethics), one cannot invade and destroy other places in the name of supremacism and hate. You can only do it in the name of ‘love’. So, US says ‘we love Muslims’, and that gives it the excuse to mess up the Muslim world.

    We love them ‘gooks’, you see, cuz there is an American trying to come out in everyone of them.

    Even slavery was justified partially this way. Gee whiz, white folks didn’t hate blacks. They were just trying to civilize them savages.
    But of course, non-whites pull the same shit. They invoke ‘love’ and ‘justice’, but they are only looking out for #1.

    [MORE]

    One of the good things about BLACK LIVES MATTER is the brazen racial politics of it.
    It wasn’t always so. MLK fooled everyone that blacks weren’t only for black power but for justice and equality for all. And this got a lot of mileage.
    But BLM spills the beans on what it’s really about. It’s about blacks caring about blacks and blacks only. They don’t say All Lives Matters. No, just black lives matter, even though most blacks are killed by other blacks. It’s like Tahenisi Coates bitching about black bodies even though blacks bodies are going around beating, raping, murdering non-black bodies, for which he doesn’t care at all.

    As for Erdo’s nationalist and Islamist tendencies, they have to be seen in context.
    Though ideally I prefer a liberal democratic system that ensures freedom of press and individual liberty, such no longer exists, not even in the West.

    West is not liberal or democratic. It is Zio-oligarchic, Anglo-oligarchic, homo-supremacist, feminist-nutty, and etc. There is Jewria, Negria, and Gayria everywhere. FBI recruits have to make a pilgrimage to MLK statue like North Koreans have to bow down to Kim statue, like Cuban kids have to pledge to the eternal spirit of Che Guevara. Anyone who makes a slightly critical remark about MLK is finished. And Holocaust isn’t just a historical tragedy but a religion. Every nation must have many memorials in its honor even though only one nation is responsible for it, namely Germany.
    Feminists psycastrate men in Sweden.
    Journalists are fired and blacklisted for saying the word ‘homo’ in the West. So-called Free Press is owned by a handful of oligarchs, most of them Jewish. And even a veteran reporter who won so many prizes and honors like Helen Thomas was not protected from ZioCarthyism.

    US and EU ignited a new cold war with the Homosade or Gaysade, the new crusade that tries to push homo agenda and homomania on every nation, especially Western, Latin, and Asian ones. (Muslim nations are spared cuz the West knows Muslims have strong belief in Allah.) Putin was called new Hitler cuz homos in Russia cannot have mass parades.
    And we know from Iraq War and Libya War–and Ukraine crisis–that the Western media are essentially a propaganda wing of the US elites dominated by Jews, homos, and Anglo cucks.

    So, how does a nation build defenses against such stuff? If you allow total ‘freedom of the press’, the Soroses of the world will infiltrate, buy influence, and gain control of information. What happened to media in Russia under Yeltsin? It was ‘free press’ alright. Just like in the US, all the media in the hands of Jewish oligarchs.

    Also, as US dominated global academia, educated are indoctrinated with American globalist agenda. Turkish students who study in the West unwittingly become dupes of Western globalist-imperialism. Instead of learning from the West to defend or serve Turkey, they just want to win approval from Western elites with whom they identify with more. Look at that scumsucker Orhan Pamuk. Now, I can understand why they feel this way. They see domestic corruption, backwardness, and provincialism, and they are impressed by the modernity of the West with its liberty and freedom. But they fail to see that the West is no longer free. It is ‘correct’. Also, the Western agenda is currently imperialist and nihilistic. Just look at US invasion of Iraq and EU destruction of Libya. Also, globalism is an imperialism of all the elites on all peoples. It is a union of globalist elites against all the native masses. UK elites, French elites, Saudi elites, HK elites, Tokyo elites, Mexican elites, Brazilian elites, Seoul elites, Buenos Aires elites, Madrid elites, Rome elites, and etc don’t give a shit about their own peoples. They shmooze with one another, marry one another, send their kids to same elite schools in US or London. They act like the Shah of Iran. They seek to break down borders to that all nations will be flooded by interchangeable masses while the elites rule over them like sheep. Every national elite feel challenged by their native majority masses, and they figure that the best way to keep the native majority masses down is to diversify the nation and accuse the native masses of ‘racism’. This is how the British elites gained moral victory over the British working classes. They filled UK with blacks and Paks, and then accused working class Brits of ‘racism’. All elites pull this shit now. And since even elites in non-white nations got their ideas from US colleges, their idea of the greatest sin is ‘homophobia’ and ‘racism’.

    Also, unless your nation has a powerful sense of moral authority, it will fall prey to Western fashions in ‘justice’. Turks and Muslim world have Islam and Allah. Their faith is powerful. So, they can stave off the scourges of homo worship and dingbat feminism and Holocausitanity as the new religion. Turks attack homo paraders in Istanbul, and they feel totally righteous cuz Allah is on their side. Turks don’t take no shit from Jews.

    Because Turkey is largely westernized and modernized, it can easily fall prey to Western decadence, degeneracy, and Jewish-Homo or Jomo supremacism(that now control the Western conception of ‘justice’).
    Indeed, compare Turkey with Japan, Korea, and Taiwan. JKT–Japan, Korea, Taiwan–are falling like dominoes as the cucks of America. JKT have no strong ideology or religion or national philosophy. Their idea of progress is merely to look to the West and imitate. They feel that their civilization is INFERIOR to the West, and therefore, their role is to imitate and follow. It’s like that song, “I will follow him”.

    They are into ‘me so horny’ whore mode.

    Turkey is different because it has Islam, which the Moos or Muslims as greater than anything. And the worth of Islam cannot be measured by GDP or technology or whatever. It is sacred spiritual truth. Turks may look to the West for technology and science, but they don’t feel that ‘Westerns values’ are superior to what is most sacred to them: Allah and Muhammad. They have their own spiritual and moral center, something JKT don’t have.

    Now, I like secularization, and I think Ataturk did good to modernize Turkey. And ideally, I would like to see more modernization and liberalization in all nations. BUT, it is a huge mistake to see the West as any model of liberality and freedom and justice and morality.
    There was a time when the West was unmistakably more advanced and progressed on matters of politics, ethics, philosophy, spirituality, morality, and etc. It was the first to end slavery, enforce rule of law, advance property rights, ensure equality under law, allow advancement of women, reflect on its historical wrongs, and etc.
    The Western model was the one to follow even if the West wasn’t perfect. At the very least, it was light yrs ahead of Africa, Asia, Middle East, and etc.

    But today, the West is ahead ONLY in science and technology. Morally, it is disgusting with open sewage rap, pornified TV shows(Lena Dunham’s stuff would have been X-rated in the 70s), homomania, Jew-worship, PC, BLM lunacy, feminist nuttery.
    And if it weren’t for some tough critics who wouldn’t let the issue go away, the UVA rape hoax story would been the basis for the New Narrative about bogus Rape Culture.
    American journalism schools no longer even teach respect for objective truth. It’s all about narratives, agendas, causes, etc. Correct Journalism tells so many lies.

    If the non-West need more modernity and liberalism, they need to make progress on their own terms. If they need to learn from the West, they should look to the West of the past, especially humanism of post-WWII period. The West of today is a sick world of oligarchs like Soros and Koch Brothers who seek to destroy borders, identity, culture, and values.

    I don’t like Islamism, but if it’s an effective tool against Western decadence and perversion, then Turkey must use it.

    The problem is Erdogan’s personality and character. He is a shit, there is no doubt about that. Some in the West compare him with Putin, but that is wrong. Putin is no saint and works like a gangster, but he doesn’t go around LOOKING for trouble, and he wants to diffuse than escalate tensions around the world.

    Putin didn’t mess up Iraq, Libya, or Syria. He’s been calling on the world community to make a deal with Iran. He’s been friendly with Israel and Iran. He didn’t start the mess in Ukraine.

    In contrast, Erdogan is more like Netanyahu and Neocons in the US who just love to play bully and mess up things and cause trouble and act nutty like Mapache in THE WILD BUNCH. He’s got swagger, and that’s why he’s dangerous.

    If he were a cautious autocrat, there would be stability in the region. But he’s an autocrat who likes to play with fire than water. Putin is an autocrat who prefers water.
    Erdogan is a pyromaniac like the neocons. A pyrocrat.

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  26. This is all about the Ottoman Empire…

    …and were taking over THEIR land in French created Syria

    is sounds like you’re suggesting that all the territory that the Ottoman Empire conquered and ruled over by force should belong to them for perpetuity. At least that’s what it seems like you’re saying. I’m I wrong?

    Does India still belong to England? Does Spain still belong to the Moors?

    (btw, some suggestions for your war movie list. Joyeux Noël [one of my favorites] and Spartacus surly? Apocalypse Now, Dr Strangelove, The Deer Hunter, Full Metal Jacket, Black Hawk Down, The Blue Max, The Outlaw Josey Wales)

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  27. “In what are the Turks educated ? Certainly not science.”

    Back in May, I met a Turkish scientist (I believe he was a physicist, but we didn’t spend much time on his field of inquiry) at a Turkish restaurant in Chicago. I’m pretty sure Turkey has a substantial secular sector that produces people with a Western-style of education. You can’t just write off all Muslim countries as full of superstitious goat herders, or whatever.

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  28. Where did Crimean Tatar Turks come from ?
    Let me see: oh yes, like all other Uyguroğlar nomad Turkic tribes, Crimean Tatars invaded Crimea from East Asia. Russians are a lot nearer to Crimea than Turkic nomads from Uyguristan.

    Well, I’m no expert on any of this, but don’t the genetics tend to indicate that the Turks in Turkey are mostly the descendents of the same Anatolians/Greeks/whatever who’ve been living there for the last couple of thousand years? They just converted to Islam, starting speaking Turkish, and gradually began regarding themselves as Turks after the ferocious (but numerically small) Turkish warrior tribes conquered the region?

    In particular, aren’t they genetically very similar to the present day “Greeks”? Similarly, aren’t the Bosnians, Serbs, and Croats genetically indistinguishable for the same sort of reason, even though they’re all deepest enemies of each other and think of themselves as being different “peoples”?

    And the Hungarians may be the best example of all since their language and historical “ancestry” marks them as Central Asians, but they actually look just like their Germanic/Slavic/whatever neighbors. Maybe if the Mongolians or Manchu tribes had felt strongly enough, they might have forcibly converted the Han into “becoming” Mongolians or Manchus, but 98% of China’s population would still be Han by actual ancestry…

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  29. Speaking of Vietnam, I spotted the following at Market-Ticker, who’s also reposted on ZeroHedge then I quoted.

    https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=230966

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-12-13/guest-post-ugly-truth-donald-trump-has-exposed

    For those who don’t recall the Tet Offensive was an attack launched by the NVA and VietCong by some 70,000 troops in a coordinated series of attacks across more than 100 targets. It was an attempt to foment rebellion among the South’s population.

    Tet failed in its military objective, in that there were too few troops spread too thinly, and once the US and South Vietnamese figured out what was going on they literally slaughtered a huge number of the attackers. To put perspective on this at the Battle of Hue roughly 500 US Marines and South Vietnamese were killed but over 5,000 NVA and VietCong died in that one battle alone.

    The story was repeated through the country; while the North managed to attack they lost virtually the entire attacking force, while not managing to take one mile of territory. They also failed to incite rebellion, which was the primary goal of the offensive in the first place.

    Our media, however, reported that we lost. They were present and they lied, including Walter Cronkite. Cronkite reported in February of 1968 that the war “was a stalemate and probably unwinnable” despite knowing that the NVA had virtually been rendered soldierless in the Tet offensive as their casualty rate ran ten times the South’s.

    Tet was a desperation move; the North was in serious trouble. They were failing to take territory and losing men and material at an ridiculous rate compared to the Americans and South. Simply put we were the better fighting force and it wasn’t a close call. In the first few days of their “offensive” they lost ten thousand men against about 750 on the other side and it just got worse from there with total losses on their side being close to 50,000, or virtually all of their remaining fighting-age force.

    Cronkite didn’t care about the truth. He wasn’t evil, he was indifferent. He didn’t give a damn about the fact that a totalitarian government was being handed a victory over millions of citizens, he simply wanted to make a further name for himself and push his political agenda.

    And I spotted a very politically incorrect rant about #BlackLivesMatter at http://angrywhitedude.com/2015/12/blacklivesmatter-doesnt-embrace-diversity-kicking-out-cracka-shaun-king/ and the very politically incorrect entry on this satirical Wikipedia spoof named Encyclopedia Dramatica (warning, content might not be suitable for younger audience, viewer discretion is advised).

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  30. the Brits and French stole their land, oil rich land, even that occupied by native Turkomen

    “Stole”? Like the Ottoman Empire stole much of Greece/Byzantium and a number of other lands?
    Those who live by the sword…

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  31. No, Turks don’t seem to be close to Greeks genetically – the latter are much nearer to their fellow Balkan peoples. There is some evidence that Greek Cypriots are more divergent – but in the sense of lying between mainland Greeks and Lebanese, not mainland Greeks and Turks.

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  32. What you say is true.

    Tet Offensive was a huge defeat for the North Vietnamese.

    And North Vietnam was run by a bunch of totalitarian Stalinists, and I have no use for communism.

    BUT, Ho Chi Minh was the leading and most popular national ‘liberator’ in Vietnam, and had it not been for French and US intervention, he would have been leader of all of Vietnam. And in retrospect, US should have left it at that.

    Anyway, the Vietnam War wasn’t really about ideology. It was about nationalism. No nation likes to be divided, especially by a foreign power. It’s tragic for any nation to be broken in two. This is why Germany finally reunited. Korea is still divided, and look at that mess. And Vietnamese patriots felt likewise.
    US fought a bloody civil war because Lincoln believed in the Union. It was more about national unity than slavery. As Lincoln said, he would have tolerated slavery in the South if it preserved the Union.

    In some cases, the West created artificial nations by putting different peoples in the same ‘nation’, which is why the Middle East is so unstable. In other cases, the West divided a nation of one race and people. Korea and Vietnam ended up like that.

    While it’s true that North fared badly in the Tet offensive, the South was still standing only because the US were there. Without US support, the South would have toppled long ago. The commies sucked, but they at least knew discipline, organization, and nationalist passion. And the North was led by a genuine national ‘hero’, the legendary Ho. If the South could have a worthy ‘hero’ leader, maybe it stood a chance. But it had a series of third rate leaders who were clearly puppets of the US. And one semi-decent ruler Diem was taken out by rivals, and US was complicit in his removal.

    Communism wasn’t inevitable in SE Asia. It all depended on how it was perceived.
    It failed in Malaysia and Indonesia cuz it wasn’t associated with nationalism. While British strategy played a key role in defeating communism in Malaysia, the one big advantage that the Brits had was ‘racist’ and nationalist. Many commie leaders in Malaysia were Chinese, and Brits could stir up Malaysian nationalism and ‘racism’ against the lowlife commie Chinee. Malaysia, mostly a Muslim society, felt threatened by Commie Chinee who were seen as agents of Mao.

    And same thing in Indonesia. Even though Sukarno was friendly to commies(as well to Muslims and others), he didn’t necessarily favor the commies. He liked to sometimes make pro-commie rhetoric for symbolic reasons. For the most part, Indonesia was Muslim, and most Indonesians didn’t like Chinee. Many of the top commie leaders in Indonesia were Chinee, and it was Peking that gave most aid to Indonesian commies.
    So, commies didn’t have much chance there either. Muslim-Nationalism trumped what was perceived of as ‘Chinee-led communism’.

    But it was different in Vietnam, as in Cuba later. Ho the commie was seen as a legendary Vietnam freedom fighter, a liberator, like Tom Vu was seen as the legendary Asian pimp.

    And legend mattered in that part of the world.
    It’s true that many Vietnamese, even in the North, didn’t like communism. Many loathed it. And many wished North would not win. Many fled the North.
    But the North still represented the national will, the pride of liberation, the passion for resistance. They monopolized the nationalist themes.

    In contrast, the South represented what? Serving as whores to Americans. Dependence on Americans. Occupation by foreign power. Comprador-merchants raking in the dough while entire villages were reduced to concentration camps.

    Now, if the South could have been secured and had it been allowed to develop under capitalism, I have no doubt that, like South Korea and Taiwan, it would done much better than the commie North. And it might even have turned into a democracy like S Korea and Taiwan. But nation would have remained divided. South Vietnam, even as a democracy, would be a political puppet of US and likely be militarily occupied by US troop presence. It would be a rich and ‘free’ whore, but still a whore.

    When the themes are weak, it’s hard to inspire a nation. Look at South Korea. It is a nation of cowards. It has more than twice the population of North Korea and has an economy 30 to 4o times larger. But it still relies on the US to protect its ass from the impoverished North. North is total shit, but South Korea is a whore nation without any compelling themes.

    But this is where the comparison with Korea fails. Ho was a genuine self-made national leader whereas Kim was just a good dog installed by Stalin who didn’t like independent national leaders. He hated Tito and distrusted Mao.
    Ho adopted a bad ideology, but he was a man of genuine intelligence and vision.
    And his legendary status in Vietnam was well-earned, like Castro’s in Cuba. He lived the Sinatra song, “I did it my way.”

    South Vietnam had no compelling themes. Even after the Tet fiasco and even after more brutal US bombings and mop up operations, the South still depended on the US.
    Without the US, it was nowhere. It had no will to fight. Its economy depended on US military spending and US using women as prostitutes, just about the only job for many women. South leaders were mostly interested in stuffing their own pockets. And many of them made preparations to follow the Americans to the US when the time came.

    While it’s true that the Tet offensive didn’t inspire South Vietnamese to rise up, the Americans in all their time there failed to inspire the South Vietnamese to fight hard enough to defend their side from the North.

    Also, we have to see the Tet offensive in context. The official war had been raging for three yrs, and in every year, it was getting more brutal. Johnson promised a limited war, but it got bigger and bigger. He promised Vietnamization where Vietnamese boys would do the fighting, but South Vietnam came to rely on US troops indefinitely. By 1968, there was still no end in sight. The North could be defeated in battles, but they were still willing to fight. And even though the Viet Cong on their own couldn’t overthrow the South regime, let alone defeat the Americans, their constant harassment in a jungle nation meant more and more US troops coming home in body bags. And given that all the US domestic troubles — youth culture, drugs, race tensions, etc — were exported to Vietnam itself, US involvement was like a mini-civil war among Americans.

    Also, even though the Tet Offensive was a huge failure for the North, it was a success for the North within the context of what Americans had been led to believe. Americans were told by government and even media that things were getting better, North was finally getting the message, that peace was around the corner, and things were calming down. Things were all under control. But the Tet Offensive, even if pushed back, shocked people cuz it showed that Americans and South Vietnamese could be taken totally by surprise, and the enemy could mount an attack all across South Vietnam. So, given what the Americans were told and were to believe, the shock of the event was a huge psychological blow. One thing for sure, it showed that the North was determined.

    In fact, it’s been said that the North didn’t win a single major battle in Vietnam. It didn’t matter. They were willing to fight on and on and on after so many defeats. American people, in contrast, came to believe that this wasn’t their war(and it wasn’t). Vietnam, after all, didn’t attack the US like Japan attacked the US. And South Vietnamese had been politically conditioned to rely on the US. They didn’t know what to do their own.

    And even though capitalism and free enterprise are winning formula in the long run, people are not gonna fight for such causes, especially in a place like Vietnam where most people didn’t know anything about economics.

    Also, when people are poor and afraid, the last thing they wanna fight for is economic liberty.
    When US and Germany were in throes of depression, many people were willing to elect leaders who curtailed economic freedom in the name of social stability and unity. New Deal and National Socialism. FDR curtailed lots of economic freedom, but he won 4 times.
    Today, when so many Americans feel unsure, the GOP message of more free trade and lower taxes is not selling. Indeed, 50% of Americans now say socialism is a good thing.

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  33. anonymous
    says:
         Show CommentNext New Comment

    Erdogan building an 1100 room palace as a shrine to himself bespeaks a man who is becoming increasingly megalomaniac even as he becomes detached from reality, entertaining Islamist neo-Ottoman fantasies. American ambassador Edelman’s cables of 2004 were released by Wikileaks, where he stated that “We have heard from two contacts that Erdogan has eight accounts in Swiss banks”. Other quotes from leaked cables state: “Erdogan reads minimally, mainly the Islamic-leaning press” and “He never had a realistic world view”, preferring to rely on his own charisma and instincts rather than listen to intelligence professionals.
    Erdogan reportedly has been a little too friendly with Iran, there being the revival of an idea of a joint gas energy cooperation deal between the two being considered. The US may increasingly view Erdogan as a liability.

    • Agree: Orville H. Larson
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  34. Rurik, it sounded to me like he was being sarcastic. (Am I right?)

    And Carlton, don’t pay any mind to the Wizz – he’s just a bitchy old queen. (Maybe Kiza can tell us if it’s an Aussie trait to bash people just for the heck of it.)

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  35. “interesting. so what about the arabs in these lands that turks occupied for so long, maybe comparable to the occupation of Greece…400 years I understand. Nobody today would grant Turkey an irredentist case to take back Greece, right?”

    Well, turn about is fair play. The Greeks, as heirs to the Byzantine Empire, could lay claim to Turkey, which after all was largely owned and controlled by Greeks or their successors long before the Ottoman Turks showed up in the neighborhood around 1300 A.D. In fact, the city known as Smyrna (renamed Izmir under the Turks) on the western coast of Turkey was founded by Greeks in 500 B.C. and was occupied by a large number of Greeks for close to 2500 years before the Greeks were evicted by the Turks in 1922. The Hagia Sophia, the Greek Orthodox Cathedral constructed in Constantinople in the 6th century A.D. under Emperor Justinian, was for a thousand years the largest building in the West and, I believe, the world, as well as a marvel of architecture. It was converted by the Turks into a mosque after they conquered Constantinople in 1453 A.D. Many of the current residents of Turkey are descendants of the Greeks who lived in Anatolia before the Turkish conquest. So the Greek claim to Turkey is a lot better than the Turkish claim to Greece.

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  36. That’s the truly ironic part of the elites’ attacks on Trump. All Trump said was that we should call a halt to Islamic immigration (the U.S. has no history until after 1965 of having a significant number of Muslims living in the U.S.) “until we find out what is going on.” The elites, on the other hand, are gung ho for bombing and killing Muslims around the world. The people strongly criticizing Trump are not even aware of their hypocrisy.

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  37. Talking of “superstition”!

    Have you ever heard of a dog being sentence to death by stoning?

    Well, you would be surprised to know it didn’t happen in a Muslim country but in Israel, “The only democracy in the Middle East.”

    Israel daily YNet reported on June 16, 2011 that a Jerusalem rabbinical court recently sentenced a wandering dog (considered an impure animal by Jewish Shari’ah Halacha) to death by stoning. The cruel sentence stemmed from the suspicion that the spirit of a famous secular lawyer, who insulted the court’s judges 20 years ago, had been transferred into the dog’s body.

    http://rehmat1.com/2011/06/17/israeli-dog-sentenced-to-death-by-stoning/

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  38. Well, yeah, some are like that – “bash people just for the heck of it”, but not many. Most Aussies are just laid back and enjoy beer and a good yarn or an Aussie football game with mates. You could not get them interested in politics if you were paying them $100/h. But, the Fool of Ooze appears to be one of those frustrated, highly-strung ex-poms (meaning his family came from England) who despise the people for not appreciating their brilliance. They consider themselves The Elite (in culture, knowledge and morality), usually dwell in the halls of the Liberal Party (the English Party of Australia), and dream of returning to the country of their grandparents with bags full of money acquired in the pissy Queen’s colony. A few possess the Protestant work-ethic, but others are just the typical Anglo-Zionist liars and crooks (such as the current Prime Minister of Australia).

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  39. I hope so Robin

    this just in..

    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_RUSSIA_US?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-12-15-16-01-54

    Assad can stay, for now: Kerry accepts Russian stance

    someone just blinked

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  40. “A pyrocrat”

    Or Pyrant.

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  41. The elites tries to play the “let us ignore him” game first, when this did not work out and Trump exceeded his staying power forecast by the “political experts” and talking heads (“he is not going to last”), now the political elite is in the panic mode. They never, ever expected that Trump would beat them at their own game – his statement on Muslim immigration is just brilliantly politically duplicitous, the kind that one would expect from a very seasoned political liar. Do not tell me that he is pandering to the lowest common denominator in the population, as if the professional politicians do any differently. He just beat them at their own game by taking a risk they were not prepared to take. One cannot but admire Trump for being non-politically-correct and for risk taking – the said statement could have backfired on him but he had the guts to try and it worked probably even better than he expected. This is exactly why he is successful in the real-estate business, no risk no gain. I do not know if Trump would make a good president, but I am certain that things would not remain exactly as now if he were elected. Whilst Obama was a false bringer of change, Trump will definitely bring one, for good or for bad. Are the US voters as good as Trump at risk-taking?

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  42. I won’t quote you to yourself, grumpy muppet… :)

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  43. “Hmm, hmm, is Giraldi hinting at what my suspicion has been from the start – that a Turkish airforce general has been blackmailed/paid-off by the CIA to pool off the shoot-down stunt (not that Turks were not very angry at Russia already for killing moderate Turkmen terrorists), whilst the sultan would never admit that he still lacks full control over his, now “private”, Turkish military? ”

    Kiza, that seems to be one of the issues about the Russian bomber shoot down that has people divided. For example, in the message just before yours, Haxo Angmark states that ” Erdogan wouldn’t dare attack a Russian military aircraft w/o clearance from DC. This was a test of Putin’s response, and he failed the test. ” Others argue that it was a Turkish decision alone. PG, for example, concludes that ” one has to assume that the decision to do so must have originated at the very top of the government.” Now you take an intermediate position: that a Turkish general was influenced by the CIA to shoot down the Russian bomber. For the U.S. to have put the Turks up to this nasty task is, to me, incomprehensible for it is extremely dangerous, possibly leading to a nuclear exchange between Russia and the West. I would hope that we haven’t descended to such depths that we would put the fate of the world at risk. The question I have for you is whether there have been any reports or published gossip indicating that the Turks have sanctioned or fired any Turkish general? Because, if I were Erdogan and knew that a Turkish general had illegally authorized that utterly reckless action against Russia and this imperiled Turkey, I would certainly fire his ass, if I didn’t have him shot.

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  44. OT. The news having ended, I decided to switch over to CNN to catch the preliminary debate among the excluded four. (It was the first preliminary debate I have watched.) I caught Sen. Lindsey Graham declare emphatically that his solution to ISIS in Syria was to gather up a force of “Arabs” in Turkey to fight and defeat ISIS. “Arabs in Turkey”? Maybe we can combine those 4 or 5 with the 4 or 5 “moderate Syrians” we spent half a billion dollars raising and create an irresistible fighting force not only able to defeat ISIS but overthrow Assad. But the Sen. Graham castigated the Russians for wiping out our moderate Syrian force fighting to overthrow Assad. I guess those Russian planes must be more accurate than we imagine if they could pin-point those 4 or 5 “moderate Syrians” that we had assembled.

    BTW Graham repeated at the 7:35 p.m. mark that he would “partner with the Arabs in Turkey.” Apparently, Ms. Lindsey does not have a brain in his head. No wonder he gets along so well with Sen. John McCain.

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  45. Here is an absolute must-read from one of the last remaining independent US thinkers: http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/12/11/the-unbearable-lightness-of-americas-war-against-the-islamic-state-obama-san-bernardino-us/

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  46. “curious that Mr. Giraldi believes Erdogan is acting on his own volition, and in contempt of zio-US-NATO. Would Erdogan even fart in Putin’s direction without permission from NATO?. . .I don’t think for one second that a man like ‘the sultan’ would have the nads in a thousand years to provoke a man like Putin were it not for ironclad guarantees by zio-US/NATO that he won’t come to any harm. On the contrary, he’ll be guaranteed all kinds of perks.”

    Well, it seems clear what camp you are in, Rurik.

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  47. It dawned on me that Graham was referring to the Syrian refugees who are camping out in Turkey. But I recall reading that many of those military aged men are deserters from the Syrian Army, who deserted because they “didn’t like the idea of killing fellow Syrians.” If they dislike the idea of killing fellow Syrians, I question how effective a fighting force they can be against Assad and his fellow Syrians.

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  48. Fair enough, you pose a very reasonable question regarding my theory of Su-24 shoot-down. Just to let you know, I did not invent this theory out of the blue, I assembled it from something I read. I cannot find it now, but it was some Russian guy who may or may have not had links with the Russian intelligence. Thus, this may have been just the Russian suspicion, mainly because the Russians could never believe that Turkey would endanger $60B in bilateral trade and growing, by doing something as stupid as shooting-down a Russian plane. Obama, Erdogan and Davutoglu all looked a bit surprised when announcing the event. I decided to select the above explanation for the similar reasons: the Turks can be unpredictable and vindictive, but to decide something such as this through the full chain of command – this does not make much sense even for Erdogan.

    Now to come back to your original question. Please put yourself into Erdogan’s shoes for a moment. You have a weak grip on your military, which you just established through purges after years of the Turkish Military being a state within the state. So maybe one of the remaining generals did something without your permission, but what if this general still has strong support from US, where he was trained and coopted? Would you risk confronting him just at this sensitive moment when you may need US/NATO support? Obviously, later it may be a totally different situation, or you may need US/NATO support in the long run so the out-of-your-control general stays forever if he keeps lower profile. Do not forget that the punishment of the perpetrators was the third condition in the Russian request for relationship normalization, whilst it is the last thing a self-centered Turkish leader/sultan who wants an empire would do. Especially after all the nationalistic bluster in the first reactions to the shoot-down. So you swallow the embarrassment and pretend that that is what you wanted (what many Turks who did not trade with Russia wanted anyway), and you start winning how Russia is unreasonable and you are losing patience with it (Reuters). In other words, you end up not in full control of your army but a slave of your own bluster. You were full of yourself, but the smarter CIA painted you into a corner.

    Finally, we all know that when something suspicious happens the key question is always Cui Bono? So tell me that either the Turks or their sultan benefit from this.

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  49. Kurds seem to be Turkey’s main concern. At least, that’s what their behavior suggests. I don’t blame them, they’re a huge minority (more like a majority in eastern Turkey), they’re breeding like rabbits, and they plan to take a huge chunk of Turkish territory with them. In an ideal world a gov’t would preemptively expel this sort of thing into its own sovereign state with wishes of good luck, but that’s never the way it works.

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  50. Bonus questions:
    -where did the Turks who currently inhabit Asia Minor come from ?
    -who were the indigenous peoples of Asia Minor ?
    -what happened to them ?

    I’ll play!

    The earliest recorded group in Anatolia were the Hattians in the Third Millennium B. C. The Indo-European Hittites absorbed them into their empire in the Second Millennium B. C. Turks are descendants of Iranic peoples who migrated to Anatolia late in the Second Millennium B. C. and during the flourish of the Persian Median and Archaemenid empires.

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  51. Just in case I did not make myself completely clear – Obama was not in control of the Russian plane shoot-down. Nobody in Washington asks Obama about much any more, especially after the Iran deal which pissed off Nutty Yahoo and his gang so much. Obama is a “retired man talking” (like dead man walking) for the next 12 months. Every US president is like this in the last year of his second term, but Obama has been completely worn-out as an agent of change and is now useless to everyone. Besides, the US establishment must worry about Trump winning, which would be the end of the World as they know it.

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  52. RURIK:
    “curious that Mr. Giraldi believes Erdogan is acting on his own volition, and in contempt of zio-US-NATO. Would Erdogan even fart in Putin’s direction without permission from NATO?

    Turkey is a tail that does not wag the zio-dog. In this case at least, it is the dog that is using ‘the sultan’ every bit as its tail.”

    Spot on Rurik, spot on. It was ZUSA, via its zio agents, which got Turkey onboard the regime change project in Syria, not the other way around.

    Sara Flounders of the International Action Center makes that point clear, at around 3:35

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  53. Randal wrote:
    “All very well as far as the generally valid criticisms of Turkish policies are concerned, but it really is a bit of a damned cheek for an American to accuse the Turks of duplicity in terms of their objectives in Syria.

    In the end, the local players are just regional powers at most. It’s the US superpower that has enabled, authorised and backed their attempt at regime change in Syria from the beginning”

    Exactly!

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  54. Yes, the tails do wag the US-EU dog to varying degrees. The Zionist tail is the most successful at it because of their embedded allies in the US-EU. Turkey has until recently been a good little obedient tail for the NATO dog, but under Erdogan has gotten ideas about wagging the dog for its ambitions in the Levant. Poland is another tail on the NATO dog, calculating how to wag the dog to gain hegemony over the Baltic region. Porky wants to be a tail so he can wag the US/EU/NATO dog against Russia, but the rotten, mangy tail that is Ukraine has so little to offer that the dog is having second thoughts. The Saakashvili tail wants to wag the NATO dog for hegemony in the Caucasus region but the NATO dog is having second thoughts, saying “you’re my tail” but keeping its distance over issues such as Abkhazia and South Ossetia. The endgame of all these spastic tails trying to wag the dog is that the health of the dog becomes threatened.

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  55. Kiza put it best in a post he wrote to the sakers last piece:
    “It is a proxy war, in which Israel (and its Zionist fifth column in all Western countries) is the enemy, US is Israel’s proxy, Turkey is a US proxy, ISIS and Al Qaeda are the US, Turkish and Saudi proxies and so on.”

    Although the war in Syria has many fathers, the main daddy are the zionists and this is absolutely clear from the record. There are wiki cables which confirm this.

    Julian Assange: US & Israel Planned To Overthrow Assad In 2006

    Cables reveal that before the beginning of the Syrian revolt and civil war, the United States hoped to overthrow Assad and create strife between Shiite and Sunni Muslims.

    By Kit O’Connell @KitOConnell | September 14, 2015

    LONDON — Speaking from Ecuador’s embassy in London, Julian Assange revealed that the United States planned to overthrow the Syrian government as far back as 2006, several years before the start of the current crisis.

    The ongoing threat to his freedom hasn’t kept Assange from continuing his work revealing the dirty secrets of world governments. His latest revelations come in a Wednesday interview with RT in support of his new book, “The WikiLeaks Files,” published late last month.
    The United States and its allies in the Middle East, including Turkey and Israel, have been frequently accused of contributing to the ongoing destabilization of Syria in the wake of the uprising and subsequent civil war which began in 2011. But according to cables from the WikiLeaks archive, discussed in the Syria chapter of Assange’s book, plans to deliberately destabilize the region go back at least five years further.
    “In that chapter is a cable from US Ambassador William Roebuck, who was stationed in Damascus, which apparently discusses a plan for the overthrow of the Assad government in Syria,” RT reported.
    In his appearance on the RT program “Going Underground,” Assange elaborated on the cable’s contents:
    “… That plan was to use a number of different factors to create paranoia within the Syrian government; to push it to overreact, to make it fear there’s a coup …”
    Assange continued, explaining that the U.S. government sought to make the Syrian government appear weak by causing Assad to overreact to the threat of Islamic extremists crossing into his country.

    The cable also details plans to foster sectarian strife in the region and make Iran appear like a larger threat to Assad than it really was, Assange continued:
    “In particular, to take rumors that are known to be false … or exaggerations and promote them – that Iran is trying to convert poor Sunnis, and to work with Saudi and Egypt to foster that perception in order to make it harder for Iran to have influence, and also harder for the government to have influence in the population.”

    WikiLeaks cables reveal that these plans came from the Israeli government, and show that the U.S. government intended to work with Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Qatar and Egypt to encourage the breakdown of the Assad regime as a way of also weakening Iran and Hezbollah.
    “[I]f Syria sufficiently destabilized, it might be in a position where it can keep the Golan Heights forever, or even advance that territory,” Assange said.

    According to Assange, the cable illuminates how the current Syrian crisis reflects U.S. influence on the Middle East, particularly the ways it has used its allies to put pressure on the country.

    Basically, after the idf humiliating defeat in Lebanon in 06, the zionists decided they had to disrupt the arch of resistence to israeli hegemony by targeting Syria.
    This would also completely destabilize the fragile new Iraq, which had naturally(since its shia majority and Iran is a strong regional power) slowly shifted towards Iran. This was a disaster, given the original zio plan was to take out Iraq and Afghanistan quickly and move on to the next targets. If one looks at a map, Iran was being encircled with US forces positioned on Irans Western and Eastern borders and in the Gulf Arab emirates. Unexpected armed resistance in both Iraq and Afghanistan totally upset all zio plans. The end result was a strenghtened “Shia crescent” challenging Israels hegemony.

    That is the reason for the proxy war – it is not a real civil war – on Syria, the reason why the neocons and other zionists and fellow travellers shifted gears to place ZUSA at the head of the coalition of countries, each with their own motives, which has since 2011 been trying to effect regime change in Syria, using proxy wahhabi/salafi militants, both syrians and tens of thousands more from over 90 countries.
    Syria’s destruction would allow the zionists to;

    1- Deny Hezbollah the strategic depth that Syria provides it. Surround it, including in Lebanon itself, with various Waahabi millitant groups, in Syria and Lebanon. This would also make weapons deliveries from Iran to Hezb much more difficult.

    2- Create reason for ZUSA TO interfere in Iraq again, by propping up ISIS/DAESH, dismantling the country and creating small weak statelets.

    3.It could also facilitate the zio thieves stealing yet more land from Syria or at least annexing the Golan once and for all.

    If all had gone according to plan, all of Irans few regional allies would be either destroyed or severely weakened. Iran itself would eventually become totally isolated. This would make it easier to, at some point in the future, move on to carry out regime change in Iran or attack it militarily.

    But the Zio plans have not gone according to the script. The US led coalition had expected the Syrian government to collapse quickly. They badly underestimated the support level Assad has and the resilience of Syrias armed forces. This in turn has enabled Syrias friends to support it at various levels.

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  56. For those unfamiliar as to why the Turk Generals feel “their” land and oil was stolen, here is a summary;

    http://www.g2mil.com/Irak.htm

    That includes:

    “This was part of an effort by the British, French, and Americans to monopolize the world’s oil reserves. Iraq has the world’s third largest oil reserves, and most are easily accessible. Its modern history is one of exploitation by western oil companies backed by Anglo-American military force. “Time” magazine wrote about their apparent success in 1932:

    “Anglo-Persian [now British Petroleum] and Royal Dutch-Shell (largely British-owned) have seen to it that Britain’s oil shall never be turned off completely. Besides the oil of the King of Kings [Iran], Britain controls nearly one-half the concession in the famed Irak fields (split between a French group [now Total], a U.S. group (Standard companies [now Exxon-Mobil] plus Andrew William MelIon’s Gulf Refining [now Chevron])”[2]

    This “Irak Concession” was run as the foreign-controlled Irak Petroleum Company. It was initially the Turkish Petroleum Company formed in 1911 to develop Middle East oil fields within the Ottoman Empire. During World War I, the allies decided it was far more profitable to cut the Turks out by forming new “independent” Arab nations after the war to act as proxies for western interests.

    Western control over Iraqi oil was lost over the next few decades as operations were gradually nationalized. This happened in all oil exporting nations as their governments became sophisticated and learned to read oil contracts and understand their consequences. They also realized that western oil companies cheated them whenever possible, and openly engaged in domestic political manipulations, to include bribery and backing coups.”

    ……

    “The Turks never accepted the loss of their Mosul province to the British in 1927. After World War I, they agreed with the formation of new Arab nations from parts of their collapsed Ottoman Empire, but the Mosul region was mostly Kurdish and Turkish. The western oil companies were not satisfied after taking control of most oil fields in the Middle East; they wanted them all. In the 1920s, the new Turkish government was weak militarily and politically, yet refused to yield to British demands to cede the oil-rich Mosul region.

    The British suggested that the issue be discussed in the new League of Nations, where Turkey was not a member. It was no surprise that this British dominated league awarded Turkey’s Mosul region to the new “nation” of Iraq in 1927. Turkey rejected the decision, yet lacked the military power to eject the British Army, which had remained in the Mosul region since 1918.

    Since that time, Turkey has become a major military power whose Generals grew up with tales of the great Ottoman Empire. They are excited by the possible reconquest of northern Iraq, which seems within reach as American control weakens and chaos ensues.”

    And here is one of many recent stories of Turkish troops in Iraq.

    http://news.yahoo.com/top-iraq-shiite-cleric-criticises-turkish-deployment-000712896.html;_ylt=AwrXnCZz63BWHTQAUC7QtDMD;_ylu=X3oDMTByNDZ0aWFxBGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwM2BHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg–

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  57. Before The Enemy - Occurrences
    says:
    • Website     Show CommentNext New Comment

    […] forces withdraw from base in Northern Iraq”  “Turkey’s Dangerous […]

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  58. The elites tries to play the “let us ignore him” game first, when this did not work out and Trump exceeded his staying power forecast by the “political experts” and talking heads (“he is not going to last”), now the political elite is in the panic mode.

    So Trump has now passed steps one and two. Next up:

    Step 3: Co-optation. The system approaches Trump and says, in effect, ‘Hey, buddy! We can achieve more as friends than as enemies. Why not work for us rather than against us?’ And if Trump says eff-off, then comes…

    Step 4: Mysterious plane crash.

    These last steps are sort of like what the Colombians used to call plata o plomo–bribe or bullet (literally, ‘silver or lead’).

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  59. Most realistic analysis. The system just cannot digest Trump, a spanner thrown into its cogs. I wrote before about the exasperation with Trumps staying power and desperation reflected in both Pentagon and State Department outing themselves against a single candidate.

    The Trump’s staying power has surprised me to, so I should not be offering predictions, but just for myself I expect “plata”. Nevertheless, just getting an outsider into the WH would be a powerful symbol and a signal that Status Quo and Faux Change (Obama) are not an option any more. Trump election would be a shot across the elite’s bow by us the peasants, maybe a warning of forthcoming pitchforks if the management of the place does not improve.

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  60. “Ottoman Muslims captured Athens in 1458 CE – and ruled most part of Greece until 1821 CE. Muslim armies captured Cyrus in 1571 CE. Ottoman rule lasted till 1878 CE – after which Britain took over. ”

    This portion of your comment it invites an important question that’s seldom asked and rarely answered; Who financed the British Empire that conquered the Ottoman Empire and went-on to expand into “the empire over which the sun never sets”? correct answer: The House of Rothschild.

    It appears that when it comes to the creation of world-dominating empires, including the current American Empire created to replace the British Empire, you always find that Jews provided the necessary funding for them all. With the British Empire being created with funds provided by the House Of Rothschild, while the current American Empire being created with funds provided by The Federal Reserve Bank, which is nothing more than the House Of Rothschild operating under a different name.

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  61. perhaps, you should read more history, like the fact that the original Russians were Vikings who showed up in Euroasia about 1000 years ago, when the Khazars were an already established empire in eastern Ukraine (including Crimea), and caucausia.

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  62. It appears that when it comes to the creation of world-dominating empires, including the current American Empire created to replace the British Empire, you always find that Jews provided the necessary funding for them all.

    A succinct history of the Anglo-Zionist Empire right there.

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  63. The Trump’s staying power has surprised me to, so I should not be offering predictions, but just for myself I expect “plata”.

    That’s what I think, too. Although it strikes me that, in the case of Trump, there would be an intermediate option between the plata and the plomo: if he doesn’t go for the initial ‘offer’, they could use his property and/or his business dealings to put pressure on him. For example, Trumps owns (used to own?) a casino in Atlantic City, which almost certainly means that at some point–whether he really wanted to or not–he had dealings with the mafia. The PTB would know that, and they could use that sort of knowledge to blackmail him. Alternatively, if they don’t feel like playing the mafia card, they could use their other oligarchs to put pressure on his business somehow. For example, Soros could have his BLM puppets start protesting at Trump’s hotels, casinos, rallies, etc.

    No doubt there are other possibilities that escape me at the moment. The point is, while watching Trump go may sometimes be gratifying, I’m not going to get too emotionally invested in him just to be disappointed down the road. Even if he’s 100% sincere right now (and that’s debatable), it’s still highly unlikely that he can single-handedly save America.

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  64. ” Turks are descendants of Iranic peoples who migrated to Anatolia late in the Second Millennium B. C. and during the flourish of the Persian Median and Archaemenid empires”

    Based on what evidence???

    Iranic languages such as Persian and Kurdish are not even in the family of languages as the Turkic languages, i.e Turkish, Azeri, Uzbek, etc.

    A more likely explanation for who the Turks (of Turkey) are, is that the contemporary population of Turkey is a mixture of the local populations which existed prior to the first Turkmen settlements about 1300-1500 years ago, and the Turkmen settlers themselves.

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  65. Jew, blah blah blah, Jew blah blah blah, Jew blah blah blah. We get it, according to you Jews are the source of all troubles. Find something new to say, or preferably learn something new, stop regurgitating what your ignorant imam has filled your mind with.

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  66. Trump election would be a shot across the elite’s bow by us the peasants, maybe a warning of forthcoming pitchforks if the management of the place does not improve.

    Here’s a couple of exchanges I had with Sam Shama:

    geokat62: Further to my previous comment, as was made abundantly clear during Ron Paul’s 2012 presidential campaign, there is little chance the gatekeepers would permit a strong candidate to become either party’s presidential candidate, let alone POTUS.

    SS: … knowing fully well that all it takes is one determined POTUS to say NO firmly. I really wish that would happen.

    geokat62: As long as presidential election campaigns cost over $1B and the Lobby underwrites the bulk of those costs, there is little chance a POTUS will just say NO, firmly or otherwise.

    Surprised someone with a +7σ IQ wouldn’t know this, Sam. You wouldn’t be trying to play us dumb goy for fools, again, would you? It’s probably something that is difficult for you to resist… but really, you need to try harder.

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  67. How could Putin have passed the test?

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  68. Perhaps you should read more, and learn some geography before you give me advice.
    Khazars had an empire in “caucausia” ? where is that ?

    Oh, you mean Caucasus.

    And also read about the real origins of Russians, not the drivel you picked up from some fringe blog.
    Russians are Slavic people: original Russians were not Vikings.
    Original Russians were East Slavic tribes.
    Vikings had some influence on forming of Russian culture, like quite many other ethnos and nationalities had.

    {…. Khazars were an already established…}

    Being established does not mean you are not an invader.
    The original point of my post was that a Turkophile IslamoFascist complaining about Russian “invaders” crowding out Crimean Tatars is rich: Crimean Tatars are themselves invaders from faraway lands: descendants of nomadic Turkic tribes from East Asia.
    Crimean Tatars are not indigenous to Crimea.
    Clear ?

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  69. {Turks are descendants of Iranic peoples who migrated to Anatolia }

    Thanks for trying, but sorry, you failed.
    Not even close.
    Turks currently occupying Asia Minor are descendants of nomadic Turkic tribes from East and Central Asia.
    Iranians are indigenous, sedentary, peaceful, creative civilization: been where they are for 1000s of years.
    Iranians have nothing to do with nomad Turks as far as origins.
    Nomadic Turkic tribes are destructive, savage – nomads.
    Nothing like Iranians.

    Turks occupying Asia Minor and parts of Armenian Highlands are descendants of Seljuk Turks who invaded Asia Minor around 1000AD. Over centuries they slowly massacred and ethnically cleansed the indigenous peoples: e.g. Armenians, Assyrians and Pontic Greeks (…who came from Greece originally).
    Over centuries, by forced extraction of genes from the indigenous peoples, the nomads picked up some common DNA with them.
    But they remain invadonomads in character to this day.
    Don’t believe me (an Armenian) ?
    Read what a Turk wrote about her people.
    (Those who do not know, Hurriyet is a Turk nationalist-bend news outlet. )

    [We have corrupt DNA]

    http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/we-have-corrupt-dna.aspx?pageID=238&nID=66875&NewsCatID=469

    {Our genes must have gone through mutations while we were traveling on horseback from Central Asia to Anatolia. It’s a long ride. Something must have gone wrong along the way. I think we are mutant Turks. Like Ninja turtles. We are like a lab accident.
    First of all – sorry for the repetition – we carry the “killer DNA” in our souls. It may have been a remarkable, wonderful and praiseworthy feature to be able to kill, to kill as many people as possible in the battlefield once upon a time when everything depended on winning wars and conquering. When the whole system was based on occupation, physical power, a strong army; of course, killing meant winning.}

    {We have persistently reserved that killer gene for centuries. Even though we do not conquer and fight in the battlefield anymore, we have the mutant killer gene and its sub-gene that protects the murderer. We have special respect and a secret love for the murderer. }

    “We have special respect and a secret love for the murderer. “
    Like I said: savage, destructive genocidal nomads.

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  70. Brilliant comment, Rurik.

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  71. I think you’re right there. Their policy on the Syrian border doesn’t make a lot of sense until you realize that they may actually intend to annex these territories.

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  72. @ Kiza and Sam actually

    A dry observation would be Trump may yet face his comeuppance if indeed he were truly independent. The precedent? Ross Perot where it turns out, the campaign of George H.W. Bush ‘delivered’ to Perot doctored (apparently quite competently done) photos of Perot’s daughter in some rather more than compromising pornographic scenes with a threat the photos would be released. Nothing quite like having a cult of personality worship over at the CIA’s ‘special activities’ workshop in your pocket, eh? Or was it ‘friends’ over at the FBI’s lab?

    http://spikethenews.blogspot.com/2012/09/those-post-jack-kennedy-coups-detats-in.html

    Meanwhile, the naivety of the armchair warriors speculating on presidential politics and related intrigue is quite unnecessarily complicated; it comes down to the Doug Coe cult (sponsor of the so-called ‘National Prayer Breakfast’) will decide what happens regardless:

    http://ronaldthomaswest.com/2015/12/14/fletcher-prouty-and-the-secret-team-today/

    Anyone who doesn’t play, certainly won’t stay -

    Oh, and default winner Hillary (in the case of implosion over at the Republican scene) prays (or worships, your choice) at the same trough of Coe cult swill:

    http://ronaldthomaswest.com/2014/08/09/hillary-clinton-in-four-short-paragraphs/

    ^

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  73. Hi Ron,
    Trump can beat Hillary. He will play the appropriate game with the GoP establishment [my reading from his words and body language last evening, for what it is worth :-) ) . His daughter is a giyoret, which is something to keep in mind.

    Thanks for the information and links. I continue to educate myself on these issues.

    Meanwhile [I have been Fed watching] the Fed has just raised very short term rates by 0.25%, making the dollar get even stronger versus all major currencies as oil continues to fall. This does not bode well for which countries?…..(fill in the blanks)

    Furthermore it keeps balance sheet constant which means mortgages are going to be affordable. U.S. economic position in the medium term will remain the strongest among all major players (I know a great many people will find this stance objectionable, but there it is! It helps U.S. homeowners)

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  74. I didn’t want to leave the impression that I have come down firmly on one side of the argument or the other. Strong arguments can be made for either position. The problem is that, depending on the answer, either the Americans or the Turks acted in an incredibly stupid manner. I was just looking for additional evidence, one way or the other. If anything, I am leaning to the position that there had to be some American involvement prior to the shoot down, since it seems indisputable that the coordinates that Russia provided to the Americans were provided, in turn, to the Turks so they could place their planes in proper position for the shoot down. Later reports of American planes “mistakenly” attacking Syrian army positions in eastern Syria lends further support to the conclusion that the U.S. had prior knowledge of the shoot down. After the “phony war” conducted by the U.S. against ISIS in Syria for the past year and a half, until the Russians intervened to assist Assad, I am not ready to give the benefit of the doubt to the U.S.

    Another thought that occurred to me, along the lines of the idea you tossed out, is that Erdogan had given his military independent authority to shoot down any planes “intruding” on Turkey’s air space and that Americans, at some level, were fully aware of that fact and passed on the Russian coordinates to the Turks knowing full well what the inevitable result would be. No blackmail or bribe would have been necessary. It’s sort of like Obama’s drawing a “red line” against Syrian use of gas to kill Syrians. That action gave a powerful incentive to some player (e,g., Turkey, Israel, Saudis, FSA, etc.) to use the gas and make it look like Assad had crossed Obama’s red line in order to draw the U.S. further into the Syrian quagmire. I also recall reading that Putin, after the shoot down of the Russian bomber, gave his commanders in Syria full authority to take action against Turkish planes in the event of a future incident. Erdogan could have done the same thing with respect to the Turkish air force generals at an earlier date, since there several incidents involving Syrian and Turkish planes a few years ago.

    I hold Erdogan in very low regard, but I got the distinct impression after the incident that he was caught off guard, was totally surprised and was unhappy with the result, being fully aware of the price Turkey might have to pay for the stupid act. Maybe I am giving him too much credit, but I think he is smart enough not to want to tangle with Russia.

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  75. ” . . . Besides, the US establishment must worry about Trump winning, which would be the end of the World as they know it.”

    I disagree. Washington, District of Corruption is irretrievably corrupt, irretrievably bought-and-paid-for. The big interests, the checkbook-toting lobbyists that control it would regard Trump as an irritant–nothing more.

    What would it take to “reform” the District of Corruption? Well, I’m sorry that I have to say this, but an ICBM from, say, Vlad Putin would do the trick. . . .

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  76. Your extremely pessimistic prediction of Trump’s fate should he become President makes his choice of running mate more important than usual. I am having a very hard time coming up with a likely choice. There have been instances where Presidents deliberately picked VPs in order to reduce the likelihood of being removed from office. I seem to recall that motivation was behind Nixon’s selection of Gerry Ford to replace Spiro Agnew. He was of the belief that no one would want Ford as President and that would a deterrent to his removal by impeachment. Apparently, even Presidents reputed to be very bright make miscalculations.

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  77. Another thing about the Tet offensive in 1968: It was a colossal intelligence failure. Neither Westmoreland’s MACV G-2 nor the CIA saw it coming.

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  78. Where have we heard that stuff before, ” they’re breeding like rabbits?” Was not the same was told about dwellers of Jewish Ghettos on Europe?

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  79. “…the legal status was determined by Mandates from the League of Nations rather than the criminal appropriation implied by “stole”.”

    This is Zionist boilerplate which seeks to hoodwink the reader into thinking something is “legal” because the League of Nations put their stamp of approval on it. The League of Nations also put their stamp of approval on the Zionist project to receive a stolen Palestine from a duplicitous Imperial Britain.

    The truth is rather simple. The imperial powers of the time could not give up the habit of Imperial ambition and aggression. They deployed lofty enlightenment-inspired rhetoric — the political rights of individual citizens, the right of self-determination in governance, etc — in crafting the League of Nations Charter, but it was all a hoax, a flimsy cover story for the impending Imperial feast. Behind their phony and cynical front they planned and executed the same old same old Imperial/colonial crimes. France and Britain carved up the territory of the former Ottoman empire in accord with their own national interests.

    Both the L of N Mandates and Sykes-Picot have all the “legality” of the division of spoils of any criminal gang. The Zionist project was just the “piece of the action” promised and given to the Zionist criminal gang for their help in getting the US into WW1 on the side of the British.

    A crime is still a crime even though there is no cop big enough to arrest the criminals and haul them off to jail.

    • Agree: Carroll Price
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  80. Across the sweep of history men with weapons and led by self-important psychopaths have cut and slashed their way to power and then declared themselves legitimate. Those who objected either fled or were killed. Then peace and “legitimacy” settled over the land,… until the next wave of killers arrived.

    Here’s a visualization of the historic waves of Imperial homicide in the middle east:

    http://www.mapsofwar.com/ind/imperial-history.html

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  81. Turkey is a tail that does not wag the zio-dog. In this case at least, it is the dog that is using ‘the sultan’ every bit as its tail.

    …and we all know who the zio-dog is don’t we. It’s the same dog that wags all NATO-member nations sucking milk from the Rothschild tit.

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  82. Who prevailed?

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  83. All religions are based solely on superstition. There are no exceptions. The only difference is in manner of dress and the creation of physical or mental charms to accomplish desired outcomes. I’m not picking on Catholicism, but merely using it as a good example to clarify the following; The only real difference between Voodoo witch doctors and Catholic priests is that Voodoo doctors wear loin cloths and create charms to bring blessings and punish enemies, while Catholic priest wear robes, use icons, and sprinkle holy water to accomplish essentially the same things. Both work equally well for believers, because the minds of believers are subconsciously conditioned to will positive or negative changes in themselves and others that they could never hope to accomplish without spiritual assistance from above.

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  84. Anonymous
    says:
         Show CommentNext New Comment

    Ignorant people can write ignorant comments.
    You must be Armenian or you had bad experiences with Ottoman Empire.
    Western people were kissing feets of the Vezirs ( Sultans Deputy?) When Vezir arrived riding horse to some province. And they were Bragg about it.
    Maybe your nightmare will be materialized and that’s why you people are panicking!

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  85. We can expect Donald Trump to be “George Wallace’d any time now. Like Wallace (but for entirely different reasons) he’s becoming too much of a threat to an Establishment that plays for keeps.

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  86. great video LK!

    at 10:30 he points out the blatant illegality of the jackals and hyenas tearing at Syria’s flesh, and how this looks a lot like 1914

    and then at 18:30 they speak of how bad it would be if the US gets its way and Syria is smashed, and how the ziocons will never relent and are determined to destroy Syria while the pliant house negro is still in the White House.

    at least for now they’re saying Assad can stay

    how magnanimous of them

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  87. If he were picking a vice to ward-off assassination, the no-brainer choice would be Jesse Ventura who would be a far greater threat to the Establishment than Trump would ever be. But I don’t know if Jesse could stomach Trump’s on-again, off-again, love affair with Jews and Israel. Or is Trump playing Jews like a fiddle like he could well-be playing us all?

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  88. The endgame of all these spastic tails trying to wag the dog is that the health of the dog becomes threatened

    “Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away.”

    http://renegadetribune.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/F110525GPO04-2yx4t1gvzh649ejrtvz9xc.jpg

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  89. Well you do seem to have some knowledge of the facts that “Carlton Meyer” probably didn’t but the word “boilerplate” in response to my words beginning “Furthermore…” (nor my central point even if it is central to your reply) is happily chosen because your words are boilerplate from some rather charmingly old-fashioned view of imperialism amongst the far left.

    Reification of imperialism makes less sense of events than actually knowing about the people who made decisions – their expressed motives, their inferable motives and their objective material interests e.g.. Then you may find that understanding their individual mindsets from old Indian civil servants, to generals to Welsh radicals etc. etc. will give you some way into understanding what was decided and why. If you were to presume that most of them felt that imperialism was justified in a world of very unequal degrees of modernisation (call it civilisation perhaps to be in synch with the times) and that there were good imperialists like the evangelical British in most parts of the Empire who encouraged Christian missionaries and did pretty well impartial justice by their conscientious lights from hanging white men who killed Aborigines in Australia (if not very often) to abolishing suttee in India…. AND bad imperialists like the Belgians and Germans in Africa…. then you would be closer to understanding them and I would probably go along with that sympathetic even if very critical understanding. Of course they would have been moved by “necessities” – getting oil for the Royal Navy ranked high at various times, as anyone understanding what provoked Pearl Harbour might acknowledge. No doubt there were individuals on the make and using all kinds of good and specious arguments with many claims to more knowledge than they possessed. If you study the literature of the times, including history and biography, you will find a vast number of functionaries who really thought they were doing their little bit to help the world to struggle upwards and onwards with real regard for the less powerful.

    I do not know what international lawyers would say, today, about the legal status of League of Nations mandates. Do you? If it matters in a world where international law still can’t be enforced effectively against most countries. But I don’t see you using your objections to treating decisions of the League of Nations as good because in some way “legal” as extending to your defending Carlton Meyers’ debasing of discussion with loose but loaded use of the word “stole”. (Not least in a context where it was stealing from those who had been the most successful thieves). Please join me in jumping on the sloppy and emotive in these threads.

    By the way, you brought Zionism into the discussion. I am not sure that it has much to do with the post WW1 decisions of the UK and France. Indeed the FO was notoriously “Arabist”, T..E. Lawrence did a literary job for the Arabs that had no Jewish equivalent, and Zionists have long complained that the Brits didn’t honour their 1917 Balfour Declaration promises. “Duplicitous” Britain (?”perfidious Albion”) was viewed as duplicitous by Arabs and Jews and unsurprisingly. Under the desperate circumstances of WW1 there were no doubt “promises” made by those who were and those who weren’t authorised to or able to give them binding effect and which could fairly be regarded as conflicting with one another, as well as ones that the UK had no power to guarantee.

    If you know anything much about those events do you happen to know why Britain took on Palestine as an add-on part of the Empire, qua Mandated Territory? What was in it for them except to be shot and blown up at by both sides with not an oil well in sight? Also, what do you make of claims that there ever was a Palestinian people? If there was how defined by ethnicity, geography etc.? My impression is that there is now something like a Palestinian people created by the treatment of refugees by Israelis and Arab countries alike.

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  90. It appears that when it comes to the creation of world-dominating empires, including the current American Empire created to replace the British Empire, you always find that Jews provided the necessary funding for them all.

    since the beginning when they figured out how a receipt for gold could actually be used for gold. Voila! Paper money. From there they learned how to loan out this magical “money” at interest (usury) to Europe’s inbred imbecile monarchs so they could go to war with other inbred imbecile monarchs. The only problem with the scheme was the debts died with the monarch. That’s the beauty of a democracy, the debts are passed down to the next generations for a system of perpetual debt slavery. Such a deal!

    (but this is not to impugn Jews per se, just the ones at the Fed, who are Satan’s spawn and who foist all these wars to make us commit fratricide and enslave us all to eternal debt)

    The Federal Reserve Bank, which is nothing more than the House Of Rothschild operating under a different name.

    yep

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  91. Maybe they WERE breeding like rabbits. What else is there to do in a ghetto? But I jest. Jews, as a group, have historically produced low pregnancy/birth rates, barely replacing themselves in numbers. Which could be due to the presence of a predominant infertility gene or the unusually large percentage of male Jews being homosexual. But this brings up another interesting question; How could it be that after losing 6 million in a holocaust that lasted less than 3 years, census figures show the total number of Jews in Europe dropping only slightly during that three year period? It could be due to the census figures being out of whack, or someone’s been lying to a gullible world. I suspect the latter.

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  92. the original Russians were Vikings who showed up in Euroasia about 1000 years ago

    Hmm, I’ve heard of such tales

    ~ Rurik

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  93. I didn’t suggest that Trump would follow the failed Nixon strategy, since it clearly failed if that was indeed Nixon’s motivation. Rather, I think a better strategy would be to select a VP who shared his views, so that his “program” would be continued in the event of his removal, and, thus, render removal of Trump sort of a useless exercise. I can’t think of anybody who fits that profile.

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  94. Putin “failed” the test in Syria for the same reason he failed the test in Ukraine. He’s smart enough to avoid being suckered into traps being set by the zio-masters. Into wars which, even if he won, would cost dearly while producing few tangible benefits. Choosing instead to play it cool while dealing out daily punishment that more than makes up for minor loses he would consider to be normal and expected under current circumstances.

    • Agree: Seamus Padraig
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  95. …with bags full of money acquired in the pissy Queen’s colony.

    You talking about the same pissy queen’s colony established for the purpose of ridding dear ole England of it’s dead-beats by cleaning out it’s debtor prisons and sending the inmates to Botany Bay?

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  96. http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/governor-george-wallace-shot

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  97. I’m beginning to think that all you self-proclaimed experts on the racial/genetic make-up of the Turkish people are full of shit.
    Who, after-all, other than a life-long scholar of Turkish history and genealogy could possibly figure out the hodge-poge mixture of genes the typical Turkish citizen would possess.

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  98. Zionist will let Erdogan eaten by Turkish people when they don’t need him anymore. Like any stupid person who used to cooperate with Zionist.

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  99. Yeup, that is how some Anglo-Zionist people view the ruggedly beautiful country of Australia.

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  100. {You must be Armenian…..}

    You must be one of those millions of desperate nomad Muslim Turks desperately seeking to escape Turkey and move to Christian Europe, so they can live-off the work of others like parasitic nomad Turks have always done.

    The so-called “proud” Turks have been begging on their knees for 25 years to be accepted into EU. The so-called “proud” Turks are kissing the polished shoes of Euro bureaucrats to convince them to allow Turkic nomads into civilized Europe.

    And yep, I am Armenian, Anonymous Türkoğlu.

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  101. Yes, I fully accept that my theory is only one of the possible theories, although for me it is the one that best fits all the information available to me.

    …that Erdogan had given his military independent authority to shoot down any planes “intruding” on Turkey’s air space…

    Well, then he is an even bigger idiot than how he looks, if he allowed his generals to declare a war on his behalf. But, I would not rule your version out at all. Of course, this goes together with the rest of your theory – that the US passed on the Russian sortie info to the Turks and they used it for the ambush. And this really, really looks like an ambush: the Turkish planes were loitering below the horizon of the Russian surveillance radar at Khmeimim, jumped up to shoot down, then dropped back below the radar horizon. A text-book ambush.

    You may be aware that Erdogan purged most of the unfriendly generals from the Turkish military, even by cramming the jails up with them. I read somewhere a number of around 150 Turkish military officers who found themselves in jail on various charges of resisting the sultan. We could then speculate that some still remaining unfriendly could have tried to sabotage Erdogan by shooting down a Russian plane, but then Erdogan would probably have blamed him and jailed him quickly and gladly. Nevertheless, the purge of the Turkish military is just another fact which brings Mr Giraldi’s paragraph on “prosperous Turkey” into doubt. Turkey looks more like a tinder box. I would never invest in anything long term in Turkey, not only because it is now on the wrong side of Russia.

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  102. {…but I think he is smart enough not to want to tangle with Russia.}

    Don’t be too sure.
    Turks have an exaggerated opinion of themselves.
    And have a historical enmity and grudge against Russia (….for being repeatedly beaten by them). Also, Erdogan’s successes in elections, him pulling off an unexpected victory in the recent parliamentary election, and the absolute devotion of his Islamist AKP base (about 50% of population) may have gone to his head.

    Remember that a few years ago, he organized the Mavi Marmara convoy to Israel, knowing full well that Israel would react harshly. Israel screwed up by attacking in International waters, and gave the advantage to Erdogan, but Erdogan could not have known that. He would have known that Israel would stop the convoy by force at some point. Erdogan was counting on that to affirm his credentials as “Neo-Ottoman protector of Muslims”. And certainly US would not have encouraged him to break with Israel: so he did that on his own. And the fact that Erdogan dug in and eventually forced Israel to apologize for the Mavi Marmara and offer compensation, played right into his megalomania.

    I don’t remember who wrote it, but somebody posited that this case might be similar to Saakashvili: Neocons puffed him up, gave him the idea that they’s back him if Russia counter attacked: the idea being to safely gauge how far Russia would let Neocons push her. No loss to Neocons either way. But the decision to act irrationally was Misha’s. Georgia got hosed, and Neocons up and left without a scratch.

    US has been trying to get rid of Islamist Erdogan since he started showing an independent streak, and started crowding Israel. So my guess is US kinda-sorta gave him the impression they’d back him if Russia confronted him for whatever reason. If Russia did not react, Neocons would push Russia some more in Syria (using Turks) , to see how far they could go. If Russians reacted, the loser would be Erdogan: win-win for US. Erdogan (and Turks) have an exaggerated sense of pride based on myth. They believe they are invincible. I don’t think Erdogan and AKP listen to US all that much.

    Side Note: Saddam asked US Amb Gillespie if US would mind him invading Kuwait. She said “Not at all” (which was later denied). Saddam was set up royally and royally screwed by US.

    Holding its nose, US will keep Turkey, the country, in US camp for the time being. But they’d rather have the former Kemalist Generals in charge, who did what US told them to do and were chummy with Israel – instead of Islamist Erdogan. One reason Erdogan de-fanged the generals as soon as he had the chance.

    And now reportedly US has abruptly withdrawn the recently sent F-15s from Turkey, and told Turks to get out of Iraq. So, US is putting the squeeze on Erdogan.

    Grab the popcorn, sit back, and enjoy the main feature: fireworks in Türkiye.

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  103. Yes, I fully accept that my theory is only one of the possible theories, although for me it is the one that best fits all the information available to me.

    …that Erdogan had given his military independent authority to shoot down any planes “intruding” on Turkey’s air space…

    as this conflict unfolds, I’m reminded of Egypt.

    Somehow the people of Egypt were able to remove Mubarak with what appeared to be a grass roots uprising. Maybe it was, or maybe “the Arab Spring’ was cynically used as a pretext to remove Mubarak because he pissed off someone.

    Then comes Morsi, but somehow he was repellant to the zio-regime. So they tossed him, and the people of Egypt went nuts that the west, who always blabbers about “democracy”, was overthrowing their nascent and historic democracy. Anyways at some point after the zio-western finagled military coup, someone decided to end the protests none too gently. I’m certain that this decision was made in the occupied west. As the decision to arrest all of Morsi’s cabinet members and Morsi himself as well.

    Who are making these decisions?

    At the top of the CFR are people whose names we don’t know. The ones we do know are for window dressing. Angelina Jolie for instance. But whomever are the people at the top of the Deep State are the ones who I suspect said Morsi has to go, and then decided when the protests had lasted long enough. This person was not Obama. It was not Cameron or Merkel or anyone at the UN or the assorted generals at NATO. They are all stooges and all of them do what they’re told. I’m sure you’ll agree with me on that. So who are the people who decide such things?

    Whoever they are, I suspect they’re the same people who decided to shoot down the Russian jet. When this first happened, my instincts told me that the decision had come from Tel Aviv, and that the foreign minister there told the Turkish foreign minister what had been decided. The logistics could be left up to the CIA and Mossad and Turkish military at the highest echelons who would have no doubt alerted the sultan as to what had been decided and I supposed possibly even given him a chance to protest, or not. (I know there are many people in Turkey that believe the sultan is nothing more than the zio-west’s omega dog)

    There’s a perception

    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_U54NM9QE5VY/TLmTrU8IKpI/AAAAAAAALpI/7pvQ60agv2Y/s1600/ERDOGAN+mobster.bmp

    http://www.timeturk.com/resim/tr/2014/05/17/erdogan-in-israil-dolu-iddiasina-aciklama_m.jpg

    http://www.shoah.org.uk/2015/10/28/zionist-erdogan-police-raid-opposition-tv-station-ahead-of-election/

    Also at some point one of the Jews in charge of the Obama administration would have told Obama what had been decided. They had already blown the airliner out of the sky, and they wanted to see how Putin would react to this little provocation.

    That scenario has not changed for me from everything that has since transpired. But of course I could be way off base.

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  104. I would like to take this opportunity to thank Ron Unz at The Unz Review for providing a forum for columnist and political activist who refuse to accept the bribes and refuse to don the strait-jacket being perpetually offered them in exchange for acceptance into the Big Club and the benefits it offers.

    A few others come to mind, but the brilliant, and once-promising, William Buckley serves as a good example of an astute thinker who succumbed to the Establishment’s siren song to accept a mess of pottage to become the apathetic caricature of the man he once was and could have remained had he obeyed his natural instincts and remained true to his morals and principles.

    I would also like to congratulate and extend my respects to Phillip Giraldi and other great columnist of his rank and ability for possessing the personal courage needed to do what they do for what, no doubt, results in considerable loss, cost and inconvenience to themselves and family members.

    Last but not least, I want to extend those same congratulations and respects to the many killed commenters on this forum who, due to their broad knowledge and ability to convey that knowledge through the written word, regularly provide us with intellectual feasts that are seldom equaled or exceeded anywhere else.

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  105. Putin “failed” the test in Syria for the same reason he failed the test in Ukraine. He’s smart enough to avoid being suckered into traps being set by the zio-masters. Into wars which, even if he won, would cost dearly while producing few tangible benefits.

    Yup. Hurray-patriots always think in terms of ‘juice’ and ‘street credibility’–ghetto thinking, really. But judo-masters like Putin think in terms of goals, objectives and results. Getting into a major war with Turkey, even though he could win it, would be a big mistake. Winning the war in Syria, on the other hand, would be a major defeat for Erdogan and a major victory for Russia at the same time.

    • Agree: Carroll Price
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  106. (I know there are many people in Turkey that believe the sultan is nothing more than the zio-west’s omega dog)

    There’s a perception

    well, it seems that perception is shared by quite a few…

    Putin: “If someone in Turkey decided to kiss Americans on a certain body part, I don’t know whether it was right or not.”

    https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/world/2015/12/17/putin-damps-hope-for-turkish-detente-threatening-jets-syria/WkyH37IfknXDv6CPu0AAqJ/story.html

    an omega dog is the bottom dog in the pack that is often seen with its tail between its legs and whipping rapidly, it typically crouches down and creeps up to a more dominant dog, and will oftentimes actually lick the backside of the dominant dog as a placating gesture so that he’ll be allowed to feed, for instance.

    The act of licking the backside of the other dog (kissing ass) lets the dominant dog know that the omega knows his place, and is willing to embrace it and perform the humiliating display for all to see, so that the established pecking orders are solidified. Its all a very important symbolic part of a pack, or tribal type hierarchy so that it greases the social interaction and prevents constant strife.

    Further it should be noted, that it’s not unusual for the omega of the pack to develop certain psychological defense mechanisms. Bitterness and resentments are typical. A general sense of persecution, and simmering grandiose delusions of glorious retribution mollify their pathos, as you can imagine

    http://farm1.staticflickr.com/1/478719_fc10da135f.jpg

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  107. “Last but not least, I want to extend those same congratulations and respects to the many killed commenters on this forum ”

    You’ve touched on the downside of posting on unz.com which Ron Unz, understandably, does not want to advertise. What is the body count to date?

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  108. With the brilliance you’ve displayed in the past, you’ll figure it out – but it’ll take awhile.

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  109. Was not the same was told about dwellers of Jewish Ghettos on Europe?

    Indeed it was, and Vladimir Jabotinsky was at the forefront of those lodging the complaint, stunned as he was with his first encounter with “my people — so miserable and degraded” when he traveled through Prague on his way to Rome.

    Likewise, Arthur Ruppin, an award-winning eugenicist, observing inbred ghetto Jews, perceived the need to create the “new Jew” to populate the zionist project in Palestine. Jews from Germany were Ruppin’s first choice for the “human material” for the new Jew. Slavic Jews were less desirable; in fact, most of one aliyeh group of Eastern European Jews was sent back home because they could not accommodate themselves to the demands of the new Jewish zionist vision in Palestine.

    If Jooz are going to be used as the world’s all-purpose example of oppressive victimhood for ever and ever amen, try to get the facts right. Otherwise it really f&%ks up the logic, therefore the rationality, and therefore the policy which is thereby based on erroneous interpretations of the oracle/history.

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  110. I couldn’t resist. ;)

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  111. Neither could I. No problemo.

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  112. munit haec et altera vincit mutato nomine de te fabula narratur

    בְּעֶזְרָת הַשֵּׁם

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  113. We have some killer-scholars at unz.com.

    munit haec et altera vincit – this one defends and the other one conquers
    mutato nomine de te fabula narratur – change but the name, and the story is told of yourself

    בְּעֶזְרָת הַשֵּׁם – Used by religious Jews when speaking of the future and wanting God’s help (similar to “God willing”).

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  114. It appears that, shying away from conspiracy theories, I underestimated the CIA connection with ISIS. Have a look at this story about a Saudi prince who is a middle-man between CIA and ISIS, one called His Excellency Shaykh Abdalrazzaq Hatem al-Sulayman. It appears that the separation of the Sunni part of Iraq and Syria has been a long term CIA plan, and ISIS creation has been the method. Eventually, ISIS conquered lands would be declared a state and recognized by all Western countries.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-12-17/missing-link-islamic-state-iraq-and-now-documented-cia-connection

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  115. You and I agree that Erdogan was surprised by SU-24 shoot-down (he could have been acting too, but I do not believe him capable of convincing acting). Also, most importantly, he could not blame or punish the one who commanded the shoot-down, almost certainly because this person has US (Israel’s) backing. There is no other explanation for no-punishment, either Erodgan himself give a blank authority for the shoot-down (as you suggested), or he could not blame a US agent in the Turkish military for “own initiative”. Weather this agent was a bribed, blackmailed or both Turkish general, does not really matter. It was a well planned and well executed operation, this what we have to recognize.

    Israeli newspapers reported that Erdogan turned to Israel after the shoot-down, forgetting all about Mavi Marmara, wanting to replace the lost trade with Russia with a new trade with Israel. Israel said maybe, if you stop advocating the Palestinian rights (which the sultan will not find too hard). Since the Russians appear to be also turning to Israel for trade, starting with substituting the importation of Turkish vegetables with Israeli ones, then the only total winner of the shoot-down is, oh what a surprise, Israel.

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  116. I heard today on NPR that Israel and Turkey were going to normalize trade and diplomatic ties that were severed over the Mavi Marmara event

    Israel is going to pay compensation to the victims of the humanitarian aid boat

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  117. Giraldi RT interview.

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  118. KIZA,
    Thanks for posting the zerohedge link, but I stopped reading once the author started regurgitating the “Saudis were responsible for the 9/11″ crapo. I do the same when any writer (Raimondo at anitwar.com included) starts leading his or her readers down the dis-info path for the purpose diverting their attention from the obvious fact that Israel was heavily involved in every phase of 9/11, including the anthrax attacks.

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  119. To name only two of many, 5th columnist like Raimondo at antiwar.com and the zerohedge dude who’re both posing as anti-war journalist, are as easy to spot as orange jumps suits in a snow bank.

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  120. The zerohedge news was actually broken by cryptocomb over a year ago:

    http://cryptocomb.org/?p=1081

    ^ you can look at their abstract without any 9/11 slant.

    As well, an independent Kurdistan seems to be in the cards, how funny how it would seem the Erdogan family oil business trumps Turkey’s paranoia of the Kurds (kind of puts a dent in Phil’s stance on Turkey-Kurdish relations but it was never a simple black & white circumstance and never is when human greed is in play.)

    http://oilprice.com/Geopolitics/Middle-East/The-Making-of-Kurdistan-Oil-Investment-and-a-Turkish-Gamble.html

    ^ Really interesting in this immediate preceding is:

    Ninewa today is one of the last bastions of al-Qaeda in Iraq, and its blessing of the KRG-ExxonMobil deal is significant in terms of security

    Since the article had been written (June 2102, about the time David Petraeus was hooking up with Bandar bin Sultan to employ al-Qaida for purpose of buggering Assad) al-Qaida in Iraq had been re-branded Islamic State and we all know who launders their oil exports (Turkey.)

    Kind of an ‘the enemy of my enemy is my friend’ cluster-f**k but short of Armageddon, if the western powers (big oil) has it’s way, there will be Sunnistan, a possibly ‘contained’ Kurdistan in Iraq’s north (don’t bet on it), a Shia-Iraq ‘rumpistan’ and Turkey maybe left intact or maybe not.

    Some of these guys leave The Agency to go where the big $ are. Corporate mercenary hires. They know what they will probably be allowed to get away with, they have channels a bit more plugged in than a mere finger to the wind -

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  121. Gee, Carol, everybody is an Israeli agent for you. You accused me of the same in another comment stream.

    If we had a few more like you, we could declare a war on the state of Israel, its nuclear weapons would be nothing.

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  122. Ron,
    Thanks for your response and for the link to your website. I paid you a long visit and will be back.

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  123. “US Military/Security Complex Drives World To War”

    Abby Martin interviews retired U.S. Army Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson, former national security advisor to the Reagan administration, who spent years as an assistant to Secretary of State Colin Powell during both Bush administrations. Today, he is honest about the unfixable corruption inside the establishment and the corporate interests driving foreign policy.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOagQ_nfCes

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  124. I’ll admit I’m not too sure about you. As to the latter portion of your comment, one of the great tragedies of history was the creation of the state of Israel. But being it occurred, reversing the error by removing Israel by any means necessary would still be a major blessing to mankind, while doing so 50 years or more ago would have prevented numerous tragedies including the unnecessary deaths of millions of innocent human beings who’s sole transgression was that they lived on land coveted by Jews.
    As I do not wish to abuse the privilege or stretch the patience of those who have so graciously granted us the opportunity of freely expressing our opinions without incurring the wrath of censorship, I will make no further comments on this particular thread. Thank you.

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  125. As I do not wish to abuse the privilege or stretch the patience of those who have so graciously granted us the opportunity of freely expressing our opinions without incurring the wrath of censorship, I will make no further comments on this particular thread.

    would that we all could be so grateful and gracious in our temperaments Carroll,

    very well said

    I shall also try to remember I’m a guest here in Ron’s house

    (sometime I have a tendency towards wrath and intemperance that I regret)

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  126. Carroll,

    This is the Unz Review,

    You are entitled to speak your opinion about relevant matters …..and even digress occasionally…Expressing your opinion..is great, backing it up with strong evidence or sound logic is better…..You have made some excellent points on Unz Review…… and the site is all the better for it…

    and you are allowed to make mistakes too…….that is what makes the Unz comment section worthwhile…..people are able to engage the thesis of the author and use it as a springboard for discussion….which is how “learning takes place”.

    If you are Hopping off…that’s your choice….just don’t stop learning wherever you go.

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