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The Russo-Chinese "Alliance" Revisited
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America’s greatest strategic mind of global recognition, Alfred Thayer Mahan, in his seminal work The Influence of Sea Power upon History saw the World Ocean and activity in it as the foundation for national greatness and power. The pivot of this greatness was a powerful navy. Through Mahan, the Theory of Navalism reached American elites late in 19th Century. As Byron King noted:

Mahan’s book struck the highest levels of the governing classes like a bolt of lightning and created a tempest of intellectual upheaval not just within the U.S. Navy, but throughout the broader American (and overseas) political, economic, and industrial system.

It was, however, not Navalism as a theory which contributed to both intellectual and, eventually, social upheaval—it was the industrial revolution and the technological paradigm that revolution created, which propelled ideas of naval blockades and of the decisive battles of large fleets to the forefront of global strategic thought. The confirmation of the correctness of Mahan’s vision didn’t have to wait for too long—on 28 May 1905, in the straits of Tsushima, Russia’s Baltic Sea Squadron of Admiral Zinovyi Rozhesvensky was almost completely obliterated by the Japanese naval force of Admiral Togo in what amounted to one of the most lop-sided battles in history. Russia’s de jure defeat in the Russo-Japanese War of 1904-05 became inevitable in the wake of Tsushima, which became in Russia a euphemism for a catastrophe. Recriminations and, eventually the First Russian Revolution followed as the result of this military-political humiliation. This outcome also cemented a central postulate of Navalism—large, expensive fleets became the main force which embodied both national prestige and safety for the trade of the nation which possessed them. The era of battleships and cruisers unfolded but so did the era of submarines.

The explosive technological and doctrinal development of fleets, both naval and commercial, followed. Also Mahan’s ideas that the old concept of Guerre’ de Course, of commerce raiding, simultaneously matured and reached industrial proportions, which would see massive naval battles on the Shipping Lanes of Communications (SLOC) during WW I and, especially so, during WW II. The Safety of SLOCs and maritime Choke Points became defining factors in Western strategic thinking of the 20th Century. Nowhere was this more so than in Great Britain and, especially, in the newly emerging superpower of the United States. The World Island is how Admiral Elmo Zumwalt defined the United States of the 20th Century. The post WW II US Navy became more than just a concentrated material expression of American national pride and of industrial-technological prowess; it became the guarantor of the safety of those numerous SLOCs and Choke Points on which American prosperity depended then and continues to depend even more so today.

Enter the 21st Century. With the collapse of the Soviet Union, the US Navy lost its only modern peer—the Soviet Navy. Today, the US Navy reigns supreme over the vast spaces of the World Ocean, thus making American maritime trade secure. For now it also controls the world’s maritime trade which amounts to almost 90 percent of all global trade. A fleet of more than 62 000 commercial vessels every day carries millions tons of cargo, ranging from crude oil and ore to washing machines and cars, between hundreds of ports, thus generating trillions of dollars in capital movement every month. It seems that the United States with her magnificent navy is living proof of the old geopolitical truism that the one who controls the World Ocean controls the world’s trade, and thus controls the World. This was true with the United States being the most productive and largest industrial economy in the post-World War Two world. This is not the case anymore. To be sure, the United States still hugely depends on and still controls most SLOCs, but this time the pattern is different and is changing constantly.

China’s ever-growing manufacturing capacity entered the game—the times when the United States was shipping massive amounts of finished goods and of materiel both to Europe and elsewhere around the world are over. Of course, the United States still produces many finished goods, some of them of a world-class quality, such as commercial aircraft, processors, generators, and engines, to name just a few; but in 2017 the United States posted an astonishing 344 billion dollars trade deficit with China. Today, the US controlled SLOCs in the Asia-Pacific area operate as supply lines for the US internal market, shipping monthly tens of billions of dollars’ worth of the finished consumer goods to the United States, filling the shelves of American Walmarts, Targets and Costcos with mostly Chinese-manufactured TVs, home appliances, computers, Smart phones, furniture, and articles of clothing. The United States today depends on China for its own everyday consumer needs. This dependence is unprecedented historically and is a powerful reason for questioning both America’s internal and international trade policies. Today, trade deficits of such a scale are among the most important drivers behind contemporary geopolitical upheaval.

The United States is in a trade hole and that hole is extremely deep. Yet, while the US-Chinese trade is the talk of the town and is extremely important in explaining contemporary geopolitical dynamics, and an inevitable US-Chinese trade war, a much larger but less talked about global scenario is beginning to emerge and it has everything to do with the fact of China’s (One) Belt and Road initiative aka the New Silk Road. A lot has been said about this massive project, most of it is positive and it is derived from the fact of the seemingly much fairer and beneficial, for all parties involved, nature of it. This is true, especially against the background of the mayhem and destruction the United States has unleashed around the world. Yet, the Chinese project is far more than just an exercise in charity which it certainly is not. China, with her excessive industrial capacity, is in it for a much bigger prize than the United States, with its sluggish consumer market and declining standard of living. Nor are Africa or Eurasian subcontinent the targets, although often placed in the center of Chinese considerations. The name of the Chinese game is Europe. Without Europe, the One Belt and Road initiative becomes merely an expansion into large but mostly poor markets in Asia. The Philippines or Indonesia cannot compare to the advanced economies of Germany or France. Europe, not just the EU, is a different game. With her almost 750 million population and a GDP larger than that of China or the US, Europe is the only truly wealthy market left in the world. China desperately needs access to this market both through the land bridge and SLOCs and it is here where the geopolitical dance of the century becomes extremely intricate. Several important facts must be considered before drawing any conclusions on the mid to long-term developments:

1. The United Stated posts huge trade deficits not only with China. The US is in a deep 56 billion dollars trade hole with Germany in 2017. It consistently posts trade deficits with most European nations from France to Finland and Russia. With the EU alone, the US trade deficit is more than 135 billion dollars. With the exception of military hardware, commercial aircraft and some electronics, the US is simply not competitive in Europe. China is and precisely in that sector where the United States produces next to nothing—consumer goods. The Europeans are aware of this, as they are apprehensive of China’s One Belt and Road. Speaking on January 10, 2018 France’s President Macron was explicit in his description of the Silk Road:

“We must come up with a common position at the European level…We can’t disregard this initiative. It would mean dealing with its consequences and would be a profound strategic mistake.”

Europe does feel a need to protect her strategic sectors and those are the ones where China still lags considerably—the high-tech machine building sectors.

2. With China securing the safety of her strategic rear and crucial resources by entering into all but an full-fledged military-political alliance with Russia, China seems poised to complete the Silk Road’s land-bridge, a small part of which will go through Russia. Modern transportation technologies, including high-speed rail—the exact field in which China is one of the global leaders—may significantly change the matrix of goods’ flow and, indeed, interconnect Eurasia with a highly developed railroad network. In fact, the work is already in progress. But here is the catch.

3. Commercial marine transport still remains the most efficient way of delivering large quantities of goods—a term “Road” stands for SLOCs in a One Belt and Road initiative. China needs this Road which connects her ports with the Mediterranean and it is here where all illusions about this Chinese initiative must be dispelled.

There is a lot of talk about the Russia-Chinese alliance, as well as about Russia being a junior partner in such an alliance. All this is a result of not seeing the very serious real factors behind the new Silk Road. First, China’s initiative is not that beneficial to Russia. In fact, it goes contrary to Russia’s own plans for creating a new Eurasian Economic Union (EAEU). Russia has its own designs on large portions of the markets China sees as her own. Russia, dominating Eurasia’s heartland, has a shot at a serious upgrade of its own role in this plan and that is what Russia is doing already. One of the major reasons is the fact that the US Navy and the Chinese Navy (PLAN) are simply in different leagues. One may say, and justly so, a lot of negative things about the US Navy, which does face a whole host of large technological and operational problems, but there can be no denial that it still remains the most powerful naval force in history. It is precisely this force which can, if push comes to shove, stop any maritime trade in almost any part of the world. The “almost” qualifier is extremely important here.

One also may say that this is an unrealistic scenario, while in reality it is anything but. The Chinese Navy (PLAN) was in construction overdrive for a decade now and it built a large number of surface combat ships, some of which on paper look impressive. By 2030 it also plans to have four aircraft carriers in its order of battle. China is also building naval bases in Pakistan, which is prudent once one considers that a large portion of this “Road” passing through the Indian Ocean. But the question remains—in the case of an inevitable US-China trade war, which may go hot on “neutral” territory, will the Chinese Navy (PLAN) be able to defend its SLOCs from the interdiction by the US Navy?

The answer is an unequivocal no. China may already have a very serious A2/AD (Anti-Access/Area Denial) capability which would deters the US Navy and make its life difficult in the South China Sea, but blue water operations are a completely different game. The US Navy today and in the foreseeable future has an ace up its sleeve, and that is a world-class, massive nuclear attack submarine force which, considering the US Navy’s powerful surface element, will not allow PLAN to defend its SLOCs. While Mahan’s ideas seem to be moribund, they may yet see their resurrection in the form of a large fleet standoff with global implications.Neither now nor in the foreseeable future will China be able to overcome the US Navy’s technological underwater superiority, and eventually the Chinese will also need to contend with India’s view of the Indian Ocean as her own internal lake. India also sees the Chinese naval presence in the Indian Ocean as a threat to herself. It is not surprising therefore to see increased cooperation between the US and Indian Navies. The PLAN is not ready to face such odds, especially when one considers the rather unimpressive technological reality of PLAN’s submarine force—this inferiority in technology and numbers will not be overcome any time soon. In plain language, in the open ocean the US Navy can and, most likely, will sink the Chinese Navy and that will mean the end of the Road, leaving onl the Belt to China.

In the end, the United States also needs Europe in a desperate attempt to revitalize own economy by utilizing the subjugated and split EU as the main market for US hydrocarbons and goods. The US doesn’t need Chinese competition in what has now become a struggle with enormously high stakes for the United States. After all, the memories of America as a global industrial powerhouse are still fresh among many. This, eventually, may move the United States into full confrontational mode with China and it is here where Russia will have her own very appealing strategic fork in the road, with some preparations for this fork now being made. The most important sign of this was Vladimir Putin’s rather startling revelation, during his October 2017 Valdai Forum conversation with youth, of his concern for the fate of white European Christian Civilization and his desire to preserve it.

The importance of this statement is difficult to overstate—much more is at stake than mere economic issues, however important. The Russian-Chinese alliance today seems unshakable and it will remain so for a while, but, contrary to some opinions, this is not because Russia needs China—certainly no more than China needs Russia. It is a situational global alliance, but it is also the economically natural alliance of two very close neighbors. China needs Russia’s resources, which Russia gladly sells to China, but China also needs Russia’s technology and she needs it desperately. Europe is also not just a market for China; it provides access to very advanced technologies, from nuclear power to transportation. But Europe and Russia are effectively the same culture, while China and Russia are not.

Putin at Valdai confirmed Russia as primarily a European nation and stressed the necessity to preserve it as such while preserving European, which is Western, culture as a whole—this is without doubt a most startling and profound political statement from a major global statesman in the 21st century. Preserving European culture is impossible without extremely advanced technology and advanced military systems, but that is what Russia has been building for the last decade. With Europe slowly coming to some understanding of the dead end of its cultural and economic policies, it is becoming clear that Europe sees neither China nor the United States as friends. Yet, even despite sanctions on Russia, the Q3 2017 reports saw a very significant, double digit, growth in trade between Russia and Germany, Netherlands, Italy, and Austria—hardly a sign of an isolated nation. The trade with China also grew tremendously by more than 20% and reached 84 billion dollars, with a target of 200 billion to be reached in the nearest future. There will be no cohesion to any Eurasian economic plans without Russia. The Russians know this, and so do the Chinese and the Americans.

More importantly, while it is primarily Russian or Russia-derived military technology which has already firmly secured the Chinese and Russian littorals and their near sea zones from any aggression, Russia holds yet another joker up her sleeve. It is the Northern Sea Route, which China supports enthusiastically. She has sound reasons for doing that. Unlike the Indian Ocean where PLAN would have to face the immensely powerful US Navy, Russia controls the Arctic and possesses a world-class A2/AD capability there, from advanced nuclear submarines, patrol and missile carrying aviation to a system of surveillance and reconnaissance sensors and coastal weapons, which make this route a desirable trade artery, also being much shorter than other maritime routes. The pace of Russian construction of ice-breakers for year-round operation of this ice route, now greatly mitigated by climate change, testifies to the fact that this route is already becoming an important economic and geopolitical factor.

The strategic implications are enormous—neither the US Navy, nor, for that matter any other navy, would be able to interdict Arctic SLOCs. Russia already has enough fire-power in the Arctic to ensure that passage is peaceful under any geopolitical conditions, while retaining, if need be, the capacity to shut it down. China has no such capabilities. But that is why China knows how to behave with Russia, which is also, together with Finland, a source of advanced technology for China not only militarily but for the use of this route. As The Diplomat noted:

In short, as long as solid Russia-China relations exist, the future of the Ice Silk Road is bright.

There are no reasons for China or Russia to spoil their relations, especially now when the agreement has been signed and a JV established for developing and building Russian-Chinese long-range wide-body CR 929 aircraft, which gives China access to world-class Russia’s commercial aircraft design and technologies. Russian-Chinese energy and infrastructure projects are also impressive and have huge potential for growth. In general, after all of these factors are considered, one can easily see that no matter how one plays with numbers or geography, Russia long ago secured both continental and maritime pivot positions for any major Eurasian project. She did that by playing to her many strengths. Then, by openly stating her European cultural roots, Russia has asserted her claim to be the very real bridge between Asia and Europe and she has all the necessary economic, technological and military wherewithal to support such a claim.

Will Europe get the signal? There are certainly many there who got it already but so did the United States, whose neocon cabal is going apoplectic when facing an unfolding geopolitical reality in which the United States may be simply bypassed as a player in Eurasia or, under highly desirable yet unattainable conditions, see herself reinventing herself as a major global productive player. How to do this? Alfred Thayer Mahan left no instructions and that could be a big problem. But if we all manage to avoid Mahan’s vision of large fleets blowing each-other out of the water with modern conventional let alone nuclear weapons, in their desperate fight to control shipping lanes of communications—this, I think, will fit the common sense of most people in Russia, the US, China and Europe. These four players must sort their problems out in a peaceful and civilized way—there is no other viable option. The only alternative is a bloody destructive triumph of Navalism.

 
• Category: Economics, Foreign Policy • Tags: American Military, China, Russia 
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  1. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I’m not sure what the authors point is, in this incredibly long and rambling post. Maybe it is just Russia Stronk!

    But it seems like the OP is just reiterating what a lot of people already know. Russia is a legitimate super power on its own. It does not need China to exist, but it needs China to defend itself from the West just as China needs Russia to defend itself against the West too. Only people who spend too much time on the internet care about who is considered a junior member or not when it comes to survival. Even Iran, who is not near as powerful as either Russia or China, is not a junior member because if any of the 3 nations fall the surviving 2 nations will be in big trouble.

    I don’t think China sees Europe as THE prize, as Europe also has economic issues as well. China and Russia see an integrated Eurasia as THE prize, as this will ensue a multi-polar world which benefits both nations.

    No doubt prying Europe and especially Germany away from the West is a big goal for both nations, but the real goal is controlling the “Heartland” a la Mackinder. As Mackinder noted, he who controls the “Heartland” controls the world.

    If the West loses control of the “Heartland”, controlling the sea lanes will have little value, as it would not be able to stymie trade to Russia or China, just to make it more expensive. So the OBOR is not meant to be a replacement against ocean trade, just insurance that if one artery is cut, another remains open.

    If China-Russia, or sorry Russia – China, is successful in making this connection; the West has no way of controlling either nation.

    Also, lol at quoting Macron with his Grannie wife. He is a total stooge for the West. So of course he is not going to like OBOR.

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    • Replies: @Joe Wong
    Neither do I sure what the author's point is. It seems the author is making a lot self assertions to assure the American still matters in the world events. On the other hand, if the American is contented with its world number one class navy title and keep their navy away from causing mayhem to the global SLOCs i.e. not driving their warships into commercial ships like drunken sailors so often, the world should caste a brass hat, a big trophy, some kind of fancy medals or certificates to pacify the American Navy. Perhaps even pay the American Navy stay at home moored at piers.
    , @Wally
    was stated:
    "The pace of Russian construction of ice-breakers for year-round operation of this ice route, now greatly mitigated by climate change"

    Seriously, is the author really a True Believer in the left's fake 'climate change'?

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  2. Beckow says:

    Russia might see itself as a part of Europe, but most Western Europeans have never seen it that way. So it is like knocking on a door that will never open. West has very publicly given up on its ‘white, Christian, European civilisation’ – we are at a tipping point when pure demographics will determine this. What common ‘culture’ can there be with massive population replacement? Maybe a new culture, but not what one would call ‘white, Christian, European’.

    An alternative is to save what can be saved, and find allies who will help. China, Central Asia and parts of Middle East can do that. Can multi-cultural and rapidly devolving Germany or France? By 2050, most of Western Europe will be a different culture than today. Will the ‘high-tech machine sector‘ will still be viable?

    Central Eastern Europe is caught in the middle – as they have been throughout most of history. They cannot on their own keep Europe European. Eventually for a number of reasons (including their own confused identities) they would succumb to what is ailing the West. The fish rots from its head, and if the rot is to stop, it would have to be done there. Looking at London, Paris, Berlin leaders and their hapless populations, I don’t see any will to do it. End of liners display very specific characteristics: moronic relativism, hedonism, absurdity, inability to understand that some rules of the game – or constraints – cannot be changed, and, of course, no children. Looking at Western Europe that behaviour is dominant, so what there to save?

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    • Agree: Kiza, polskijoe, FB, yurivku
    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    Russia might see itself as a part of Europe, but most Western Europeans have never seen it that way. So it is like knocking on a door that will never open.
     
    "Door knockers" in Russia are actually a small minority. This is not how it works today. As much as I treat Limonov with a degree of irony, he wrote last year a very short and precise piece with a title "The Europe Now is Us (Russia)", how Europeans (or whatever the populace it is today which used to be known as Europeans) is going to be dealing with this fact--it is strictly European affair. What's left there culturally today can hardly be called Europe anymore. The real Europe which survives today is the one from the Western borders of Poland to Vladivostok. So, the point is that it may (and most likely will) become a completely 180 degrees turn in terms of who will be knocking on whose doors. E.g. many Western Europeans are already migrating to Hungary, Czechia, some to Russia--the migration will only increase. In fighting illness it is always a matter of a union between doctor and a patient. If a sick patient doesn't want to fight deadly decease, well--it is patient's loss. I think the picture will become much clearer in the next 7-8 years is Europe's cancer is treatable at all. After that it wouldn't matter anyway who buys Russia's hydrocarbons in Europe--white "Christian" population or EU ran by mullahs and Islamic councils.
    , @Bardon Kaldian

    Russia might see itself as a part of Europe, but most Western Europeans have never seen it that way. So it is like knocking on a door that will never open.
     
    I haven't read the post (later, it's long). But, your comment is only partially right. True, most Western Europeans had not, until the 19th C, considered Russia to be a part of the "West"- but the majority of thinking women & men do consider it now (and have been in past 100-150 years).

    What is West?

    It is a combination of three elements:

    1. Greco-Roman heritage
    2. Christianity
    3. rational & scientific spirit going back to 18th C Enlightenment

    If we include the Renaissance as the prerequisite, Russia would not pass the check. But nor would Norway, Sweden or Greece. Not persuasive, no ...

    If it is because of a regional variant of Christianity, then we should also dispense with Greece, something hardly imaginable- they're the cradle of the Western civilization.

    Looking at Russian history, identity & culture in past, say, 3 centuries, it definitely belongs to Europe. Moreover, there is not a single specifically Russian cultural trait that is alien or incomprehensible to the "core" West of France, Italy or Switzerland.

    Unlike Arab world, east Asia, India,...among civilizations. And I even won't mention shitholes.

    , @CanSpeccy

    End of liners display very specific characteristics: moronic relativism, hedonism, absurdity, inability to understand that some rules of the game – or constraints – cannot be changed, and, of course, no children. Looking at Western Europe that behaviour is dominant, so what there to save?
     
    What is there to save?

    A civilization. The greatest civilization the world has yet seen.

    How to save it?

    1) Stop talking and acting like a wimp.

    2) Boot the globalist treasonite leadership.

    3) Boot the "refugees" and criminal immigrants, incentivize repatriation of legal and law-abiding immigrants, with large cash grants, certain rights, e.g., to Euro passports but without residency rights.

    4) Reimpose the traditional values through education, law reform, and legal restrictions on recruitment by non-Christian religious groups.

    5) Criminalize sex "education".

    6) Outlaw abortion.

    7) Restore meritocracy in education, slash university entrance to 10% or less of school graduates, terminate the PC indoctrination courses in the university, restore academic freedom in the university, slash academic salaries, eliminate corporate control of academic research.

    8) Restore freedom of speach:

    Break up the media monopolies. Institute a one person/company one media outlet policy.

    , @FB

    '...End of liners display very specific characteristics: moronic relativism, hedonism, absurdity, inability to understand that some rules of the game – or constraints – cannot be changed, and, of course, no children. Looking at Western Europe that behaviour is dominant, so what there to save?..'
     
    What a very precise definition of characteristics...bravo for this articulation...
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  3. Transport by ships is more economical for large quantities of merchandise.
    Transport by train is more efficient for smaller quantities of merchandise.
    It is quicker and more efficient. This fact is particularly significant for merchandise like agricultural products with limited shelf life.
    That is very important in this case. Quick delivery from source to market plays very important role.

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    • Replies: @CK
    Quick delivery over internal lines of communication that are not easy to interdict.
    It wasn't just Mahan it was also Mackinder.
    Rail delivery from Xian to London has already been done. Now it is merely a matter of speeding it up and simplifying the paperwork. And as with the internet, the one belt one road can be routed around impediments ( political ). Secure passage of goods and peoples from Seoul to Lisbon From Singapore to Narvik, when the heartland is economically welded the peripheral nations become much less puissant.
    , @Pisa2016
    Completely untrue, since most cities don't have coastal access, so they would have to truck -> sea ->truck instead of just rail with no transfers between two cities
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  4. ” These four players must sort their problems out in a peaceful and civilized way—there is no other viable option. The only alternative is a bloody destructive triumph of Navalism. ”
    They must, alas reality is otherwise.

    EU and NATO incorporated Ukraine, EU has a military paragraph in the association treaty with Ukraine.
    We, Dutch, voted by referendum against the treaty, it was ignored.

    The Brussels bureaucracy often mentions ‘soft power’, economic power, sanctions that the ordinary citizens of the EU member states and Russia pay for.
    Alas, for Brussels, NATO, neocons, Russia, as Iran, does not seem to be brought on its knees by soft power.
    And then, the usual solution, hard power.

    The situation now reminds me of that prior to WWI, Germany building the Berlin Baghdad railway, to be extended to Basra.
    The British felt threatened, ruling the waves might become ineffective for ruling the world.
    The Peking Petersburg railway, four days travel, I do hope it does not have the same effect as the Berlin Basra railway.

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  5. polistra says:

    A less military way of seeing it: In 1500, Columbus and Magellan were looking for a maritime shortcut because the original Silk Road was long and dangerous from the Euro end. The result was 500 years of dominance for the sealanes, and dominance for the Americas. Now the new Silk Road is eliminating the need for a maritime shortcut by rebuilding a fast land route from Europe to the Orient. The Arctic route is basically a Russian coast-hugging route, hard for America to break.

    The new Silk Road is undoing Columbus and factoring out the Americas. When you have routes entirely within the Eurasian side of the world, there’s no need to cross the Atlantic and Pacific.

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  6. Randal says:

    Fascinating stuff, thanks.

    The US regime’s record on foreign and military policy over the past three decades suggests that if there is a really stupid way to cock everything up for the US and for the world, they will find and enact it.

    The growth in importance of the northern sea route will make the Bering Strait ever more important. Presumably that’s where the US would look to interdict Chinese/Russian trade with Europe by this route in a war situation. Russia for sure could close it, but could it keep it open for trade against determined US opposition? Seems unlikely to me.

    However, that does mean going to war with Russia in order to strangle China, which ups the ante considerably for the kind of war with China US militarists would like to see. Though by the time the northern route is carrying enough traffic to make it significant, China’s military tech and strategic nuclear deterrent will likely be much more capable relative to the US than it is today anyway.

    [Typo in final para by the way - United Sates.]

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    • Replies: @Joe Wong
    Now or never, isn't it? I guess the American should nip the bud before China grows more. NK crisis surely is a remake of Lusitania to launch a first strike against Russia and China I reckon. BTW have you build you bunker yet? You should know USA is a safe heaven and it is immune from war is a fallacy, a fool's wishful thinking.
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  7. The US response to OBOR is to pull at “loose threads” in various places along its paths. For example, the Rohingya in Myanmar have recently become an issue that requires “humanitarian” action, much like Syria years ago (when the gas attacks didn’t play in Peoria, suddenly ISIS became a thing), and recent flare-up in Iran, which seemingly also needed the world’s attention, unlike Ferguson or Baltimore. Pakistan is also on the radar. Having spent this much on a navy, the US will probably want to keep it relevant by any means possible.

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  8. Nexus321 says:

    Personally I don’t think the US navy is as all powerful as the article suggests. Many weapons systems are dated, hulls are aging and new concepts like the Zumwalt do not seem to address any coherent strategic objective.

    Russian and Chinese missile technologies of all types underpinned by an symmetrical strategy are increasingly potent. Chinese subs are improving and their quality is rising. If they incorporate Russian technology that will be a game changer when allied to China’s industrial capacity. They will simply out build the US. You don’t have to be quite as good if you have a 5 or 10 to 1 advantage.

    No one has provided a sensible technical description as to how you would defeat a hypersonic Mach 8 missile. Not just one but two or three.

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    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    Personally I don’t think the US navy is as all powerful as the article suggests. Many weapons systems are dated, hulls are aging and new concepts like the Zumwalt do not seem to address any coherent strategic objective.
     
    It is powerful enough to completely shutdown Indian Ocean SLOCs for China, especially due to US Navy's submarine force--China has nothing comparable and will not have anything comparable for a very long time. The only way for China to have safe passage in Indian Ocean is to wait for the US to completely implode and from India to refuse to have a viable navy.
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  9. WHAT says:

    Andrey, I wouldn`t call russian commercial airliner design world-class, not yet anyway. There is a strong claim to with the Yak-242(or however it will be called), including new engines, avionics, sertifications and host of other things you need to have a proper airliner, but so was SSJ, and where is it now?
    It can be argued that undeveloped support and logistics network was a reason for its failure, but then this problem endangers the new plane as well. Russians certainly understood at least some of the complexities, that is why Yakovlev is far more reserved when it comes to international market and goes for the home field advantage first.
    And then there is Airbus and/or Bombardier, which will probably jump into development partnership with chinese just as quickly as russians did for the right price.

    By the way, what do you think about the fresh LM claim that they now have some kind of hypersonic which was “impossible five years ago” because “computers”? I smell bullshit, considering how main impediment at such speeds is not control(otherwise nothing would ever return from orbit in one piece), but materials.

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    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    Andrey, I wouldn`t call russian commercial airliner design world-class, not yet anyway. There is a strong claim to with the Yak-242(or however it will be called), including new engines, avionics, sertifications and host of other things you need to have a proper airliner, but so was SSJ, and where is it now?
     
    1. SSJ and MC-21 are two completely different aircraft;
    2. SSJ is doing, actually, very well and is already testing new long-version. More than 130 of them are flying. So, it is by no means a failure, especially once the issue of post-sale service will be fully addressed.

    https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/102840/

    3. MC-21 is state-of-the-art with already 175 firm orders prepaid. It is the only aircraft of this class with a "black wing" and MC-21 from the inception was created as primarily domestic aircraft. PD-14 is a superb engine.

    And then there is Airbus and/or Bombardier, which will probably jump into development partnership with chinese just as quickly as russians did for the right price.
     
    Shoulda, woulda, coulda. Old story--Bombardier is not in the same league of long-range aircraft as this very Airbus and while they may try, Russia and China already have a JV and PD-35 is being in initial (design, technical task and requirements etc.) phase. China will develop fuselage, the hardest part--design and manufacturing of the wing and WTB went, obviously, to Russia.

    By the way, what do you think about the fresh LM claim that they now have some kind of hypersonic which was “impossible five years ago” because “computers”? I smell bullshit, considering how main impediment at such speeds is not control(otherwise nothing would ever return from orbit in one piece), but materials.
     
    The United States shot herself in the foot in terms of high speed (anti-shipping) cruise missiles in 1960s, first killing Regulus program for SLAM and then by continuing to develop carrier-based navy. Like in roulette, this weapons' activity requires right bets from the get go--wrong bet, one loses. It is a well-known fact that the United States currently lags behind Russia in this field and this lag will continue for some time for both:

    1. Technological reasons--materials, fuels (very high impulse fuels are required) etc. required for M>5 missiles;
    2. Internal political squabble between US naval realists and massively influential and detrimental to naval development "trade union" of the carrier aviators and shipbuilders. Newport News is, certainly, not interested in losing CVN contracts, nor is the lobby in Congress.
    , @Mitleser

    And then there is Airbus and/or Bombardier, which will probably jump into development partnership with chinese just as quickly as russians did for the right price.
     
    Bombardier has sold their commercial aircraft business to Airbus and the Chinese.
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  10. Chinese one belt one road plan is all about China internal long term stability and maintaining order. Size of Chinese pòulation and lack of resources and internal market capacity require for China to go beyond her borders to find it all. Chinese are self centered people and whatever they are doing is for their own benefit. In recent decades they have managed to achieve large progress but inevitably without doing what they are doing now China is facing serious troubles at home. I believe they desperately need this plan to succeed, but I doubt and always stated so as Andrei also pointed that it is not on Russia long term interests to go along and just become China supplier. Russia strength lies within own development and return to improved Soviet experiment which proved to be great success. The dynamics of the past 25 years clearly show it is the case and liberal capitalism is not Russian way especially when it is clearly lost it. Putin thought of preserving white civilization also depends upon first and foremost internal success, strong population moral and confidence in future which would allow to reverse demographic down trend caused by liberal experiments. I also wonder if peaceful resolution of the problems stated by Andrei is possible. The issue lies within great divide in psychology between Anglo Saxon civilization and the rest. While Russia and China are clearly are rational players capable of compromise USA is not. It is zero SIM game and always was. The cause of this is national psych stemming from all of historical experiences that the rest share. Thus I wonder about possibility of any detente and whether Russia has learned Soviet experience of dealing with partners.Basically if detente is impossible then the only way is to set goals of cutting USA to her size. Considering USA no longer being what it used to be, her massive weaknesses and dependence upon financial arm and dollar status I see that aim can be achieved through cooperative way between China, Russia and other same minded countries to undermine USA dollar status and financial system via every way possible while keeping USA pinned and unable to act agressivly in military realm. Without this USA will no longer be a threat neither militarily nor economically. What is necessary is understanding that detente with USA is impossible and it is zero sum game. Btw, I would point at Tillerson statement that us military is going to stay in Syria as long as necessary until Assad gone. This the case of Russia achieving and declaring victory but USA just doing whatever USA wants and long term who knows Russian victory might prove hollow if USA allowed to act in this way. It is just who Russia is dealing with and I hope they realize it in Moscow and act accordingly.

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    • Replies: @Beckow

    Chinese are self centered people and whatever they are doing is for their own benefit
     
    That can be said about almost any people. We all do what is for our own benefit.

    I agree that Anglo culture is incapable of compromise. They see 'diplomacy' as a continuation of war by other means and don't see any deals as permanent or binding. One can see it in their constant projection of this behaviour on others. Since they see any agreement as valid only as long as it benefits them, they project this treachery on others. In the 19th century, native Americans were always described as 'treacherous', and the British colonials had a whole set of projected values on their subject populations, none good. The assumption and accusation was always that the other side cannot be trusted.

    The same projection of 'treachery' happens today. In the modern world it has made dealing with the West impossible. And yes, in situations like that the others learn that the only realistic way is to isolate the unreliable party. We are heading there.
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  11. Excellent article.. I wish it had pointed out by name the corporate players:
    1. which Russian vs Chinese corporations stand to gain/lose from the OBOR initiative..
    2. which Western vs Chinese corporations stand to gain/lose from the OBOR initiative
    3. which Western vs Russian corporations stand to gain/lose as the OBOR initiative

    nearly all trade is done by corporations. but never are the data presented that allow to see that the corporate economic power far surpasses the governmental economic power. Grouping corporate activity by nation name no longer works..

    Anyway thanks for the article

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    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    1. which Russian vs Chinese corporations stand to gain/lose from the OBOR initiative..
     
    Good question. And here is the issue: Russian-Chinese interaction can not be viewed merely through OBOR, albeit it is a very important part of it. I'll try:

    1. It is clear that China is very interested in Northern Sea Route (NSR)--this is an axiom now. This means a dramatic growth of Russia's infrastructure in Arctic, which automatically affects in the most positive way a whole host of corporations. Rostec, I am sure, is delighted with such a trend.

    2. China is very interested in hydrocarbons from Arctic, Gazprom is delighted, I am sure, but so are other corporations involved in extraction, including a very significant portion in machine building sector--a lot of extraction machinery was being import substituted in Russia as of lately.

    3. RZhD.

    So, it is a very positive net effect in some sense for Russians, but there is a much longer term consideration here and this one, once one sees Europe remaining a viable economic entity, is not as favorable for Russia. But we are getting here into a completely new discussion on a very different and very large subject. I'll give you a hint, China does see herself as a substitute for the United States as a core of new Pax Sinica and there is a huge problem with that. Putin's statement on White European Christendom was a first warning shot.
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  12. Poor Vlad, don’t you know that the West will never truly accept Russia? The kind of Russophobic neo-Mcarthyism I see in America precludes the possibilty of reproachment in the long term.

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    • Replies: @WHAT
    There is a distinction between european continental west and anglos. Continent totally can and wishes to have a proper deal with the Russia, while anglos are concerned only with their srategic safety through european controlled turmoil.
    , @Ilyana_Rozumova
    You moron! Vlad closes the valves and Europe changes to wasteland.
    , @Twodees Partain
    The russophobia is a media construct, and "a mile wide and an inch deep" is how it should be viewed. All of it would disappear overnight with a change in the media's messages. The extent to which a person would believe that it is real is proportional to that person's reliance on the msm for his worldview.
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  13. Z-man says:

    Yes too long of an article.
    Bottom line, the NEOCON/Globalist Cabal has pushed Russia away from the West and into the arms of China, more so than would be naturally done. It has pulled Russia and America farther apart which is sad because they are natural allies. Fortunately Germany, France and other European countries will buck this Anglo/Zionist plan by needing and wanting to deal with Russia.
    These nefarious deeds are mostly due to the hatred the ZioJudeo controlled Anglosphere has for Putin for reinforcing Russia’s Christian heritage.
    Putin Da!

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    • Replies: @windwaves
    Fully agree that this is a main factor in this type of analysis.
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  14. The name of the Chinese game is Europe. Without Europe, the One Belt and Road initiative becomes merely an expansion into large but mostly poor markets in Asia

    Game over! A shipment now sent from London goes to Beijing directly by rail.

     China is also building naval bases in Pakistan, which is prudent once one considers that a large portion of this “Road” passing through the Indian Ocean.

    Overlooked is the Chinese base at Djibouti now under construction. Very strategic indeed.

     In plain language, in the open ocean the US Navy can and, most likely, will sink the Chinese Navy and that will mean the end of the Road, leaving only the Belt to China.

    With all the sats following the carriers second by second, odds are the ss missles would take less than an hour to sink Mahan’s theory for good.

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    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    Also remember they've taken over a big container port in Sri Lanka (99 year lease), bang on the Cape of Good Hope route, and bought control of Piraeus, main port in Greece.
    , @Andrei Martyanov

    Game over! A shipment now sent from London goes to Beijing directly by rail.
     
    Since it is difficult to answer such broad and uneducated statements, let's do a simplest calculation (which also will explain why China builds a massive cargo fleet).

    Say, crude (just for the sake of argument). A single train--three pullers and about, say 100 cisterns.

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/ct-oil-train-new-data-met-20150403-story.html

    They give us an average 700 barrels per car. That is 70 000 barrels per train. It is very roughly 8000 tons of crude. Well, now we can compare. An LR-1 (Long Range) tanker can haul up to 610 000 barrels of crude. That is almost 9 times (or nine full trains of crude) in usually well protected waters of NSR (it also cuts the time by 9 days compared to "southern" route). Containers:

    Longest (up to 200 cars) trains can haul up to 400 containers, container ship can carry up to 7500 40 foot and 15 000 20 foot containers. So, here it is. Sea routes will remain as importnat as ever, in fact--even more so in the future.
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  15. Very instructive and fascinating paper !
    I was impressed by Putin’s statement concerning the fate of white European Christian Civilization; but it may be too late to save it.
    I am afraid that the Zionist Empire is after the destruction of the European Christian Civilization. They are motivated by a revenge feeling agaisnt the countries where they have been living for centuries.
    The New World Order, they are selling, is calling for the destruction of the Christian Civilization: the family, the traditional values and the many cultures of the various European people. They are behind these great invasions that Europe, today, is subject to. They expect these invasions to have on Europe a similar effect to what happened to the Roman Empire.
    Everyday, Europe is walking further down into hell.

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    • Agree: Z-man, RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @gT
    Agree, brilliant article. The Russian and Chinese motivations are clear; survive, prosper and grow fat. But what is the Empires', the Anglo-Zionists' motive? It is not to survive, prosper and grow fat.

    Currently they are destroying Europe. Ok, that prevents either Russia or China from benefiting from Europe. So bye-bye Europe. But they are destroying the USA also. With Europe and the USA gone as prosperous trading countries, that means China goes down also (China needs to trade to survive, lots of trade). That leaves just Russia sitting comfortably because Russia has everything it needs already.

    Bringing down Europe can lead to a single marshal law government there, bringing down the North American continent can lead to a single marshal law government there. Maybe the 2 marshal law governments across the Atlantic will merge into one government, that leaves a single marshal law government in control of both North America and Europe. And all along Russia is just sitting comfortably and will grow even stronger while Europe and North America go through their purposefully induced multi cultural marshal law merging spasms.

    But how does this fit in with the elite wanting a smaller global population to control? So the worlds’ population needs to be made smaller. The only way is by instigating a global nuclear and biological war at the right time, and then later the elite emerge from their bomb shelters with sufficient resources (doomsday vaults) at hand to control whatever remains. And that is the only way to get rid of the stubborn Russian problem. The coming mini ice age might be the right time for the 'elites' to try their luck.
    , @Corvinus
    "I was impressed by Putin’s statement concerning the fate of white European Christian Civilization; but it may be too late to save it."

    Putin is a thug, the anthesis of Christian ideals. He promotes Christianity only to serve as a vehicle to ensure his domination in Russian politics and society.

    "The New World Order, they are selling, is calling for the destruction of the Christian Civilization: the family, the traditional values and the many cultures of the various European people. They are behind these great invasions that Europe, today, is subject to. They expect these invasions to have on Europe a similar effect to what happened to the Roman Empire."

    Let us assume, for a moment, that the NWO is indeed engaging in these diabolical machinations. So, what are you physically doing to confront this situation? If there is such a dire plot against Christian civilization, how are you trying to save it? Please be specific.
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  16. WHAT says:
    @George Orwell
    Poor Vlad, don’t you know that the West will never truly accept Russia? The kind of Russophobic neo-Mcarthyism I see in America precludes the possibilty of reproachment in the long term.

    There is a distinction between european continental west and anglos. Continent totally can and wishes to have a proper deal with the Russia, while anglos are concerned only with their srategic safety through european controlled turmoil.

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  17. @Nexus321
    Personally I don't think the US navy is as all powerful as the article suggests. Many weapons systems are dated, hulls are aging and new concepts like the Zumwalt do not seem to address any coherent strategic objective.

    Russian and Chinese missile technologies of all types underpinned by an symmetrical strategy are increasingly potent. Chinese subs are improving and their quality is rising. If they incorporate Russian technology that will be a game changer when allied to China's industrial capacity. They will simply out build the US. You don't have to be quite as good if you have a 5 or 10 to 1 advantage.

    No one has provided a sensible technical description as to how you would defeat a hypersonic Mach 8 missile. Not just one but two or three.

    Personally I don’t think the US navy is as all powerful as the article suggests. Many weapons systems are dated, hulls are aging and new concepts like the Zumwalt do not seem to address any coherent strategic objective.

    It is powerful enough to completely shutdown Indian Ocean SLOCs for China, especially due to US Navy’s submarine force–China has nothing comparable and will not have anything comparable for a very long time. The only way for China to have safe passage in Indian Ocean is to wait for the US to completely implode and from India to refuse to have a viable navy.

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    • Replies: @Joe Wong
    Chinese submarines are driven by electromagnetic induction propulsion system, no propellers and no vibration from engines or steam turbines. Chinese submarines routinely trial US submarines weeks a time. PLAN said there were sexual abuse screams on the US nuclear submarines all the time, it is really inhuman for the life on US submarines.
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  18. Russia and China can hang together or hang separately. Western Europe can get with the New Silk Road and prosper or stick with the Anglo/Zio Empire and become a shit hole. Same can be said of the United States. Is it ironic that only Putin wants to preserve Western Christian culture? Americans could help by teaching their children it’s Okay to be white. Is it ironic that America made China great again? Thanks Bill Clinton. De-dollarization will ultimately bring down the evil empire. But with Israel in charge of American foreign policy it is possible that Washington will become the dog in the manger and just blow up the world so nobody else can have it.

    Thanks for the good read. I had thought Russian activity in the Arctic was just about the oil.

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    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    Western Europe can get with the New Silk Road and prosper
     
    You mean turn itself into a huge Walmart? I don't think that Europeans are very enthusiastic about it. In fact, I know so.
    , @Twodees Partain
    "Americans could help by teaching their children it’s Okay to be white"

    I think that most Americans do teach their children this. It's the msm (and mostly TV) that carries the meme that white people are outnumbered and powerless.

    " Is it ironic that America made China great again? Thanks Bill Clinton."

    You can't blame Clinton alone. Nixon paved the way by obeying his handlers' urgings to give the old WASP power brokers their access to the China market that they had slavered over for 150+ years. After Nixon went to China, the process was continued by the presidents who followed him, picking up steam under GHW Bush, Clinton, W, and Obama.
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  19. @WHAT
    Andrey, I wouldn`t call russian commercial airliner design world-class, not yet anyway. There is a strong claim to with the Yak-242(or however it will be called), including new engines, avionics, sertifications and host of other things you need to have a proper airliner, but so was SSJ, and where is it now?
    It can be argued that undeveloped support and logistics network was a reason for its failure, but then this problem endangers the new plane as well. Russians certainly understood at least some of the complexities, that is why Yakovlev is far more reserved when it comes to international market and goes for the home field advantage first.
    And then there is Airbus and/or Bombardier, which will probably jump into development partnership with chinese just as quickly as russians did for the right price.


    By the way, what do you think about the fresh LM claim that they now have some kind of hypersonic which was "impossible five years ago" because "computers"? I smell bullshit, considering how main impediment at such speeds is not control(otherwise nothing would ever return from orbit in one piece), but materials.

    Andrey, I wouldn`t call russian commercial airliner design world-class, not yet anyway. There is a strong claim to with the Yak-242(or however it will be called), including new engines, avionics, sertifications and host of other things you need to have a proper airliner, but so was SSJ, and where is it now?

    1. SSJ and MC-21 are two completely different aircraft;
    2. SSJ is doing, actually, very well and is already testing new long-version. More than 130 of them are flying. So, it is by no means a failure, especially once the issue of post-sale service will be fully addressed.

    https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/102840/

    3. MC-21 is state-of-the-art with already 175 firm orders prepaid. It is the only aircraft of this class with a “black wing” and MC-21 from the inception was created as primarily domestic aircraft. PD-14 is a superb engine.

    And then there is Airbus and/or Bombardier, which will probably jump into development partnership with chinese just as quickly as russians did for the right price.

    Shoulda, woulda, coulda. Old story–Bombardier is not in the same league of long-range aircraft as this very Airbus and while they may try, Russia and China already have a JV and PD-35 is being in initial (design, technical task and requirements etc.) phase. China will develop fuselage, the hardest part–design and manufacturing of the wing and WTB went, obviously, to Russia.

    By the way, what do you think about the fresh LM claim that they now have some kind of hypersonic which was “impossible five years ago” because “computers”? I smell bullshit, considering how main impediment at such speeds is not control(otherwise nothing would ever return from orbit in one piece), but materials.

    The United States shot herself in the foot in terms of high speed (anti-shipping) cruise missiles in 1960s, first killing Regulus program for SLAM and then by continuing to develop carrier-based navy. Like in roulette, this weapons’ activity requires right bets from the get go–wrong bet, one loses. It is a well-known fact that the United States currently lags behind Russia in this field and this lag will continue for some time for both:

    1. Technological reasons–materials, fuels (very high impulse fuels are required) etc. required for M>5 missiles;
    2. Internal political squabble between US naval realists and massively influential and detrimental to naval development “trade union” of the carrier aviators and shipbuilders. Newport News is, certainly, not interested in losing CVN contracts, nor is the lobby in Congress.

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  20. Beckow says:
    @Sergey Krieger
    Chinese one belt one road plan is all about China internal long term stability and maintaining order. Size of Chinese pòulation and lack of resources and internal market capacity require for China to go beyond her borders to find it all. Chinese are self centered people and whatever they are doing is for their own benefit. In recent decades they have managed to achieve large progress but inevitably without doing what they are doing now China is facing serious troubles at home. I believe they desperately need this plan to succeed, but I doubt and always stated so as Andrei also pointed that it is not on Russia long term interests to go along and just become China supplier. Russia strength lies within own development and return to improved Soviet experiment which proved to be great success. The dynamics of the past 25 years clearly show it is the case and liberal capitalism is not Russian way especially when it is clearly lost it. Putin thought of preserving white civilization also depends upon first and foremost internal success, strong population moral and confidence in future which would allow to reverse demographic down trend caused by liberal experiments. I also wonder if peaceful resolution of the problems stated by Andrei is possible. The issue lies within great divide in psychology between Anglo Saxon civilization and the rest. While Russia and China are clearly are rational players capable of compromise USA is not. It is zero SIM game and always was. The cause of this is national psych stemming from all of historical experiences that the rest share. Thus I wonder about possibility of any detente and whether Russia has learned Soviet experience of dealing with partners.Basically if detente is impossible then the only way is to set goals of cutting USA to her size. Considering USA no longer being what it used to be, her massive weaknesses and dependence upon financial arm and dollar status I see that aim can be achieved through cooperative way between China, Russia and other same minded countries to undermine USA dollar status and financial system via every way possible while keeping USA pinned and unable to act agressivly in military realm. Without this USA will no longer be a threat neither militarily nor economically. What is necessary is understanding that detente with USA is impossible and it is zero sum game. Btw, I would point at Tillerson statement that us military is going to stay in Syria as long as necessary until Assad gone. This the case of Russia achieving and declaring victory but USA just doing whatever USA wants and long term who knows Russian victory might prove hollow if USA allowed to act in this way. It is just who Russia is dealing with and I hope they realize it in Moscow and act accordingly.

    Chinese are self centered people and whatever they are doing is for their own benefit

    That can be said about almost any people. We all do what is for our own benefit.

    I agree that Anglo culture is incapable of compromise. They see ‘diplomacy’ as a continuation of war by other means and don’t see any deals as permanent or binding. One can see it in their constant projection of this behaviour on others. Since they see any agreement as valid only as long as it benefits them, they project this treachery on others. In the 19th century, native Americans were always described as ‘treacherous’, and the British colonials had a whole set of projected values on their subject populations, none good. The assumption and accusation was always that the other side cannot be trusted.

    The same projection of ‘treachery’ happens today. In the modern world it has made dealing with the West impossible. And yes, in situations like that the others learn that the only realistic way is to isolate the unreliable party. We are heading there.

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    • Replies: @Sergey Krieger
    Actually Soviet Russia was doing a lot of charity towards China and many other countries with many of those helped not paying debts back and actually backstabbing Russia. Those money would have been better spent for the benefit of Soviet people. China is incapable of doing charity for any reason. It is not in Chinese natìnal code. I guess China is right as inside stability and unity widths more than so called friends.
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  21. The U.S. is under Zionist control and this control has led America down the path to destruction via perpetual wars and sponsorship of terrorism and regime change via ISIS aka AL CIADA and thus the U.S. has been setup by her Zionist masters for takeover by the NWO.

    Like the Romans , the U.S. destruction is from within and without and this plus unlimited illegal immigration forced upon us by our Zionist masters and the unpayable debt, all of which are part and parcel of the Zionist NWO plan, have left America as a captive nation who would lose and all out war with Russia and or China or both.

    If anyone doubts this, read THE PROTOCOLS OF ZION.

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  22. @Beckow
    Russia might see itself as a part of Europe, but most Western Europeans have never seen it that way. So it is like knocking on a door that will never open. West has very publicly given up on its 'white, Christian, European civilisation' - we are at a tipping point when pure demographics will determine this. What common 'culture' can there be with massive population replacement? Maybe a new culture, but not what one would call 'white, Christian, European'.

    An alternative is to save what can be saved, and find allies who will help. China, Central Asia and parts of Middle East can do that. Can multi-cultural and rapidly devolving Germany or France? By 2050, most of Western Europe will be a different culture than today. Will the 'high-tech machine sector' will still be viable?

    Central Eastern Europe is caught in the middle - as they have been throughout most of history. They cannot on their own keep Europe European. Eventually for a number of reasons (including their own confused identities) they would succumb to what is ailing the West. The fish rots from its head, and if the rot is to stop, it would have to be done there. Looking at London, Paris, Berlin leaders and their hapless populations, I don't see any will to do it. End of liners display very specific characteristics: moronic relativism, hedonism, absurdity, inability to understand that some rules of the game - or constraints - cannot be changed, and, of course, no children. Looking at Western Europe that behaviour is dominant, so what there to save?

    Russia might see itself as a part of Europe, but most Western Europeans have never seen it that way. So it is like knocking on a door that will never open.

    “Door knockers” in Russia are actually a small minority. This is not how it works today. As much as I treat Limonov with a degree of irony, he wrote last year a very short and precise piece with a title “The Europe Now is Us (Russia)”, how Europeans (or whatever the populace it is today which used to be known as Europeans) is going to be dealing with this fact–it is strictly European affair. What’s left there culturally today can hardly be called Europe anymore. The real Europe which survives today is the one from the Western borders of Poland to Vladivostok. So, the point is that it may (and most likely will) become a completely 180 degrees turn in terms of who will be knocking on whose doors. E.g. many Western Europeans are already migrating to Hungary, Czechia, some to Russia–the migration will only increase. In fighting illness it is always a matter of a union between doctor and a patient. If a sick patient doesn’t want to fight deadly decease, well–it is patient’s loss. I think the picture will become much clearer in the next 7-8 years is Europe’s cancer is treatable at all. After that it wouldn’t matter anyway who buys Russia’s hydrocarbons in Europe–white “Christian” population or EU ran by mullahs and Islamic councils.

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    • Replies: @Beckow
    The 'door knockers' might be a small minority, but they are noisy :)...

    I agree that what people have understood as 'Europe' for thousands of years today starts somewhere in eastern Germany and spreads eastward. The precise boundaries are fluid and there are strong enclaves left in parts of the West (Bretagne, rural Norway, etc...), but as a simplification it is true.

    The next 10-20 years will determine which way this goes - if West tips into a multi-cultural mess they will become increasingly unviable. By the way, 'multi-cultural' just means 'Third World', for some reason people are reluctant to call spade a spade.

    I am not as optimistic on the currently European central-east, it is after all the traditional home of the comprador class ('the door knockers'), and the pressures are and will be incredible. Oasis never spreads, the desert does. I see the Western Europeans migrants to the Central-East every day, but it is a trickle. And when it grows there is no reason why the pathologies and the 'recently arrived' would not come with it. One of the more amusing things is to see a 'British' person coming east with their Indian-Pakistani attitudes and get furiously angry because they are treated like Indians. Often it is sad, because many are good people, fully assimilated. This is a cultural clash about to happen.

    My original point was that Russia and the European east in general need to forget about the West as the only panacea, or as something that will last, and find a way forward with any allies they can find (China seems like one). Or they can collapse into 'multi-culturalism' and learn to like it...
    , @Mr. Hack

    The real Europe which survives today is the one from the Western borders of Poland to Vladivostok.
     
    Everything east of the Urals? Really? For all of your alleged prowess in being a mastermind of the sciences, it looks like you slept through your geography and history courses? Europe in Siberia and the Far East?... Seriously?
    , @polskijoe
    Several problems:

    a)Falling morals heavily, which usually lead to mass immigration
    b)Low fertility rates
    c)Huge Atlantic friendships between US and EU elites.

    I will just focus on the fertility rates.

    Russias fertility rate is 1.7 (and I suspect less for European Slavics)
    Poland is 1.3
    All the Slavic lands, Romania, Hungary, Baltics have also tiny rates.

    Russia is massive and should do anything necessary to increase ferlirty rates (yes investigations into chemicals, vaccines, health to check if they play any role).

    Poland needs to at least raise back to 2 children. Or it will become slowly empty (sorry not a fan of cloning if thats ever possible for humans).

    Countries like Romania, Ukraine will become more empty.
    Baltics may seize to exist with their tiny population.

    Not looking good.

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  23. @WorkingClass
    Russia and China can hang together or hang separately. Western Europe can get with the New Silk Road and prosper or stick with the Anglo/Zio Empire and become a shit hole. Same can be said of the United States. Is it ironic that only Putin wants to preserve Western Christian culture? Americans could help by teaching their children it's Okay to be white. Is it ironic that America made China great again? Thanks Bill Clinton. De-dollarization will ultimately bring down the evil empire. But with Israel in charge of American foreign policy it is possible that Washington will become the dog in the manger and just blow up the world so nobody else can have it.

    Thanks for the good read. I had thought Russian activity in the Arctic was just about the oil.

    Western Europe can get with the New Silk Road and prosper

    You mean turn itself into a huge Walmart? I don’t think that Europeans are very enthusiastic about it. In fact, I know so.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sergey Krieger
    One way or another somebody will have to suffer. Either Chinese if they do not turn Europe into Wal-Mart or Europeans if Chinese succeed. For long stability China needs all markets and resources it can get hands on.
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  24. Beckow says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    Russia might see itself as a part of Europe, but most Western Europeans have never seen it that way. So it is like knocking on a door that will never open.
     
    "Door knockers" in Russia are actually a small minority. This is not how it works today. As much as I treat Limonov with a degree of irony, he wrote last year a very short and precise piece with a title "The Europe Now is Us (Russia)", how Europeans (or whatever the populace it is today which used to be known as Europeans) is going to be dealing with this fact--it is strictly European affair. What's left there culturally today can hardly be called Europe anymore. The real Europe which survives today is the one from the Western borders of Poland to Vladivostok. So, the point is that it may (and most likely will) become a completely 180 degrees turn in terms of who will be knocking on whose doors. E.g. many Western Europeans are already migrating to Hungary, Czechia, some to Russia--the migration will only increase. In fighting illness it is always a matter of a union between doctor and a patient. If a sick patient doesn't want to fight deadly decease, well--it is patient's loss. I think the picture will become much clearer in the next 7-8 years is Europe's cancer is treatable at all. After that it wouldn't matter anyway who buys Russia's hydrocarbons in Europe--white "Christian" population or EU ran by mullahs and Islamic councils.

    The ‘door knockers’ might be a small minority, but they are noisy :)…

    I agree that what people have understood as ‘Europe’ for thousands of years today starts somewhere in eastern Germany and spreads eastward. The precise boundaries are fluid and there are strong enclaves left in parts of the West (Bretagne, rural Norway, etc…), but as a simplification it is true.

    The next 10-20 years will determine which way this goes – if West tips into a multi-cultural mess they will become increasingly unviable. By the way, ‘multi-cultural‘ just means ‘Third World‘, for some reason people are reluctant to call spade a spade.

    I am not as optimistic on the currently European central-east, it is after all the traditional home of the comprador class (‘the door knockers’), and the pressures are and will be incredible. Oasis never spreads, the desert does. I see the Western Europeans migrants to the Central-East every day, but it is a trickle. And when it grows there is no reason why the pathologies and the ‘recently arrived’ would not come with it. One of the more amusing things is to see a ‘British’ person coming east with their Indian-Pakistani attitudes and get furiously angry because they are treated like Indians. Often it is sad, because many are good people, fully assimilated. This is a cultural clash about to happen.

    My original point was that Russia and the European east in general need to forget about the West as the only panacea, or as something that will last, and find a way forward with any allies they can find (China seems like one). Or they can collapse into ‘multi-culturalism’ and learn to like it…

    Read More
    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    My original point was that Russia and the European east in general need to forget about the West as the only panacea, or as something that will last, and find a way forward with any allies they can find (China seems like one). Or they can collapse into ‘multi-culturalism’ and learn to like it…
     
    This already happened in Russia. It is pronounced, noticeable and irrefutable--never in my life did I see so much contempt to the contemporary West from majority of Russian people. It is, indeed, a revolutionary change.
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  25. @hosebigmac
    Excellent article.. I wish it had pointed out by name the corporate players:
    1. which Russian vs Chinese corporations stand to gain/lose from the OBOR initiative..
    2. which Western vs Chinese corporations stand to gain/lose from the OBOR initiative
    3. which Western vs Russian corporations stand to gain/lose as the OBOR initiative

    nearly all trade is done by corporations. but never are the data presented that allow to see that the corporate economic power far surpasses the governmental economic power. Grouping corporate activity by nation name no longer works..

    Anyway thanks for the article

    1. which Russian vs Chinese corporations stand to gain/lose from the OBOR initiative..

    Good question. And here is the issue: Russian-Chinese interaction can not be viewed merely through OBOR, albeit it is a very important part of it. I’ll try:

    1. It is clear that China is very interested in Northern Sea Route (NSR)–this is an axiom now. This means a dramatic growth of Russia’s infrastructure in Arctic, which automatically affects in the most positive way a whole host of corporations. Rostec, I am sure, is delighted with such a trend.

    2. China is very interested in hydrocarbons from Arctic, Gazprom is delighted, I am sure, but so are other corporations involved in extraction, including a very significant portion in machine building sector–a lot of extraction machinery was being import substituted in Russia as of lately.

    3. RZhD.

    So, it is a very positive net effect in some sense for Russians, but there is a much longer term consideration here and this one, once one sees Europe remaining a viable economic entity, is not as favorable for Russia. But we are getting here into a completely new discussion on a very different and very large subject. I’ll give you a hint, China does see herself as a substitute for the United States as a core of new Pax Sinica and there is a huge problem with that. Putin’s statement on White European Christendom was a first warning shot.

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  26. @Andrei Martyanov

    Western Europe can get with the New Silk Road and prosper
     
    You mean turn itself into a huge Walmart? I don't think that Europeans are very enthusiastic about it. In fact, I know so.

    One way or another somebody will have to suffer. Either Chinese if they do not turn Europe into Wal-Mart or Europeans if Chinese succeed. For long stability China needs all markets and resources it can get hands on.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
    Somebody will--and this is a long game. A lot in it depends on the fate of the United States, what it eventually becomes. A huge, huge question mark. I wrote for years now that Russia and US are natural allies, it is too bad that American "elites" are, for the most part, dumb as a stump.
    , @Vidi

    For long stability China needs all markets and resources it can get hands on.
     
    China needs resources, that is clear. But not necessarily markets in the West, as China's own internal market will be far larger than Europe's. In the long run, any minor fraction of Europe's market that China will have will be almost irrelevant to China.

    One way or another somebody will have to suffer. Either Chinese if they do not turn Europe into Wal-Mart or Europeans if Chinese succeed.
     
    No, political economy is not a zero-sum game. Clearly, both sides win, as China gets insurance against a sea lane cutoff; Europe gets more access to China's vast and rapidly growing market. (As Europe itself is not growing much, it's clear why European businesses are eager for the new Silk Road to open.)
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  27. Mr. Hack says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    Russia might see itself as a part of Europe, but most Western Europeans have never seen it that way. So it is like knocking on a door that will never open.
     
    "Door knockers" in Russia are actually a small minority. This is not how it works today. As much as I treat Limonov with a degree of irony, he wrote last year a very short and precise piece with a title "The Europe Now is Us (Russia)", how Europeans (or whatever the populace it is today which used to be known as Europeans) is going to be dealing with this fact--it is strictly European affair. What's left there culturally today can hardly be called Europe anymore. The real Europe which survives today is the one from the Western borders of Poland to Vladivostok. So, the point is that it may (and most likely will) become a completely 180 degrees turn in terms of who will be knocking on whose doors. E.g. many Western Europeans are already migrating to Hungary, Czechia, some to Russia--the migration will only increase. In fighting illness it is always a matter of a union between doctor and a patient. If a sick patient doesn't want to fight deadly decease, well--it is patient's loss. I think the picture will become much clearer in the next 7-8 years is Europe's cancer is treatable at all. After that it wouldn't matter anyway who buys Russia's hydrocarbons in Europe--white "Christian" population or EU ran by mullahs and Islamic councils.

    The real Europe which survives today is the one from the Western borders of Poland to Vladivostok.

    Everything east of the Urals? Really? For all of your alleged prowess in being a mastermind of the sciences, it looks like you slept through your geography and history courses? Europe in Siberia and the Far East?… Seriously?

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    • Replies: @Beckow
    Europe has never been bound by its geography. Is Novosibirsk more or less European than Brussels or large parts of London and Paris? Visit both and tell us...

    There are 'European' like parts of the rest of the world, in South America, Australia,... do you also object when someone refers to their European character?
    , @Joe Wong
    Perhaps Andrei Martyanov knows deep in his heart that Siberia and the Far East are never part of Russia, they are stolen land just like the North America and Australia are stolen lands.
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  28. @Beckow

    Chinese are self centered people and whatever they are doing is for their own benefit
     
    That can be said about almost any people. We all do what is for our own benefit.

    I agree that Anglo culture is incapable of compromise. They see 'diplomacy' as a continuation of war by other means and don't see any deals as permanent or binding. One can see it in their constant projection of this behaviour on others. Since they see any agreement as valid only as long as it benefits them, they project this treachery on others. In the 19th century, native Americans were always described as 'treacherous', and the British colonials had a whole set of projected values on their subject populations, none good. The assumption and accusation was always that the other side cannot be trusted.

    The same projection of 'treachery' happens today. In the modern world it has made dealing with the West impossible. And yes, in situations like that the others learn that the only realistic way is to isolate the unreliable party. We are heading there.

    Actually Soviet Russia was doing a lot of charity towards China and many other countries with many of those helped not paying debts back and actually backstabbing Russia. Those money would have been better spent for the benefit of Soviet people. China is incapable of doing charity for any reason. It is not in Chinese natìnal code. I guess China is right as inside stability and unity widths more than so called friends.

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    • Replies: @Beckow

    Soviet Russia was doing a lot of charity
     
    Yes, they were. I suppose they thought that it was to their 'benefit'. It didn't turn out that way. I think working to one's benefit is a larger concept than just charity. But you are right that some nations have a propensity to define self-interest more broadly and China is not one of them.
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  29. @Beckow
    The 'door knockers' might be a small minority, but they are noisy :)...

    I agree that what people have understood as 'Europe' for thousands of years today starts somewhere in eastern Germany and spreads eastward. The precise boundaries are fluid and there are strong enclaves left in parts of the West (Bretagne, rural Norway, etc...), but as a simplification it is true.

    The next 10-20 years will determine which way this goes - if West tips into a multi-cultural mess they will become increasingly unviable. By the way, 'multi-cultural' just means 'Third World', for some reason people are reluctant to call spade a spade.

    I am not as optimistic on the currently European central-east, it is after all the traditional home of the comprador class ('the door knockers'), and the pressures are and will be incredible. Oasis never spreads, the desert does. I see the Western Europeans migrants to the Central-East every day, but it is a trickle. And when it grows there is no reason why the pathologies and the 'recently arrived' would not come with it. One of the more amusing things is to see a 'British' person coming east with their Indian-Pakistani attitudes and get furiously angry because they are treated like Indians. Often it is sad, because many are good people, fully assimilated. This is a cultural clash about to happen.

    My original point was that Russia and the European east in general need to forget about the West as the only panacea, or as something that will last, and find a way forward with any allies they can find (China seems like one). Or they can collapse into 'multi-culturalism' and learn to like it...

    My original point was that Russia and the European east in general need to forget about the West as the only panacea, or as something that will last, and find a way forward with any allies they can find (China seems like one). Or they can collapse into ‘multi-culturalism’ and learn to like it…

    This already happened in Russia. It is pronounced, noticeable and irrefutable–never in my life did I see so much contempt to the contemporary West from majority of Russian people. It is, indeed, a revolutionary change.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Beckow

    ... so much contempt to the contemporary West from majority of Russian people
     
    This is matched by an outright hatred and fear by large majorities in the West. What we have is polarisation and escalation. That is a dead end and only benefits third parties.

    When a sensible country like Netherlands has 90% people say that they fear and dislike Russia, there is a problem. We can blame it on the media campaigns, politicians, or even lost Malaysian airlines, it still doesn't account for the emotion. The same is true about other previously more normal countries like Canada, Sweden or Finland. Something is going on, and on both sides. In Central Europe the numbers are much better, but the polarisation is palpable - the NGO Atlanticist types in big cities openly hate anything Russian, most nationalist leaning groups (not all) take a militant pro-Putin positions. There is no discussion, just name-calling.

    It is heading towards a confrontation. The first step of dehumanising and demonising the 'enemy' has been done - in the West almost totally, I don't know about Russia. Next crisis could be fatal for all of us. The constraints (definitely in the West) are off. They have talked for so long about the dreadful Russian enemy, they might talk themselves into another war.
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  30. Beckow says:
    @Mr. Hack

    The real Europe which survives today is the one from the Western borders of Poland to Vladivostok.
     
    Everything east of the Urals? Really? For all of your alleged prowess in being a mastermind of the sciences, it looks like you slept through your geography and history courses? Europe in Siberia and the Far East?... Seriously?

    Europe has never been bound by its geography. Is Novosibirsk more or less European than Brussels or large parts of London and Paris? Visit both and tell us…

    There are ‘European’ like parts of the rest of the world, in South America, Australia,… do you also object when someone refers to their European character?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    There are ‘European’ like parts of the rest of the world, in South America, Australia,… do you also object when someone refers to their European character?
     
    He probably never heard about US and Canada having a predominantly European culture. He also never heard about Northern Belt.
    , @Mr. Hack
    Using your method of analogy and attribution, most of the western world is an American subset, due to the preponderance of cultural symbols and views that emanate from the US. Granted, the closer the metropolitan area is to the traditional Russian ethnic homeland, the greater the process of Russian cultural accretion. But to refer to Vladivostok as a part of Europe (as Martyanov does in his statement) seems to be a stretch, in my way of thinking. Vladivostok's history and development was influenced as much by an Asian imprint as any other. China, Japan, Korea and even the U.S. have all left indelible imprints on the Primorsky krai, and indigenous Asians such as the Udege and Taz peoples still abound in the related countryside. The area is nominally Russian at best and is truly a cosmopolitan area not to be subject to simple and inaccurate characterizations, certainly not 'European'.
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  31. @Sergey Krieger
    One way or another somebody will have to suffer. Either Chinese if they do not turn Europe into Wal-Mart or Europeans if Chinese succeed. For long stability China needs all markets and resources it can get hands on.

    Somebody will–and this is a long game. A lot in it depends on the fate of the United States, what it eventually becomes. A huge, huge question mark. I wrote for years now that Russia and US are natural allies, it is too bad that American “elites” are, for the most part, dumb as a stump.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sergey Krieger
    I guess the only way USA and Russia becomes natural allies is when USA becomes regional power. It looks like current and previous conditions tend to create extremely anti Russian elites. American status and psychology should change imho for this to happen.
    , @denk

    I wrote for years now that Russia and US are natural allies, it is too bad that American “elites” are, for the most part, dumb as a stump
     
    Too bad !
    The anglos dont really consider slavs real whiteys.

    murikka has a G2 partner now.
    In case you havent noticed, its no more Asia-Pacific,
    The emperor has decree that from now on its the Indo-Pacific.
    The Indians are in cloud nine at the moment. !

    hhhh
    , @Joe Wong
    Yes, Russia can be Anglo's natural allies, it only needs Russian to beg hard enough, Boris Yeltsin hasn't begged hard enough, bent low enough and licked the boots bright enough.
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  32. Beckow says:
    @Sergey Krieger
    Actually Soviet Russia was doing a lot of charity towards China and many other countries with many of those helped not paying debts back and actually backstabbing Russia. Those money would have been better spent for the benefit of Soviet people. China is incapable of doing charity for any reason. It is not in Chinese natìnal code. I guess China is right as inside stability and unity widths more than so called friends.

    Soviet Russia was doing a lot of charity

    Yes, they were. I suppose they thought that it was to their ‘benefit’. It didn’t turn out that way. I think working to one’s benefit is a larger concept than just charity. But you are right that some nations have a propensity to define self-interest more broadly and China is not one of them.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sergey Krieger
    I think die to this and overall China lack of appeal and national character I think Pax Sinica highly unlikely. China most probably does not have a lot what it takes to be the One. At the heart china has nothing to offer but walmart all over the place. Hardly a vision others want to participate.
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  33. Kimppis says:

    Well, what the hell, this article is actually pretty good.

    But I’ll repeat this again:

    You underestimate the Chinese submarine fleet and technologies.

    They already have more than 40 modern diesel submarines (Improved Kilos, Type 039s and Type 041s), which already makes it by far the largest modern SSK fleet in the world.

    Yeah, sure, you have a point when it comes to far away SLOCs, which require nuclear subs… I mean you’re sort of correct, until 2025-30. But there are some major issues with the narrative:

    1. AFAK, the infamous “ONI chart” was published before the first Type 093 was even launched

    2. The most recent Type 093 variants look outwardly quite different and they are likely to be considerable improvements

    3. Lately there have been many reports about China’s recent and upcoming breakthroughs in nuclear sub tech and the construction of new submarine factory/factories

    4. And most importantly: the new SSN-class: Type 096, should logically already be competitive

    There is a gap of around 15 years, if not more, between the Type 093 and 096, which is absolutely massive when it comes to China and especially its nuclear subs. That means it will be a huge jump in technology.

    If the original variant of Type 093, even according to ONI’s “chart” was somewhat comparable to some of the oldest Russian and American boats still in service, the newer Type 093 variants even better, then the 096 should atleast be reasonably close to Yashens and Virginias, and for example certainly quieter than all the other Russian nuclear attack subs that are older than the Yashen-class. Why on earth would you predict anything else?

    The Type 096 will be the Type 052C/D of SSNs, as simple as that. The first one is probably already under construction, or atleast very close. And its competitiveness will be proven if and when the Chinese start ordering them in large numbers. Just like with their Type 052D destroyers, or even the Cs.

    It is the same thing with aircraft engines: China will inevitably be competitive in both by the mid 20s. Considering your overall expertise on the Chinese military, you probably haven’t heard, but China has recently tested J-20s with Chinese engines (not to mention, again, that there are hundreds of modern Chinese Flanker variants operational with… CHINESE engines). Yeah, they really are sooo far behind…

    So overall, by 2030 China will likely have ATLEAST four carriers, maybe even 5 or 6, 60 modern destroyers and atleast 50 modern frigates, more than 60 modern SSKs and atleast 20 more or less modern nuclear attack subs.

    Russia will have a similar number of SSN (and SSGNs) in 2030… I mean how many Yashens and upcoming Huskys do you think they will have by that time? Maybe they are veeery stronk and they’ll have 200? But no seriously… maybe 12? Plus the older, albeit upgraded, boats. (Which is of course still a good number, especially when you include the 20 or so SSKs, but Russia AHEAD of China in 2030? No, just no. That’s just not how any of this works.).

    Also, when it comes to Chinese ASW: probably 20-30 of those frigates will be a new class that heavily focuses on ASW and China will also have atleast 4 helicopter carriers…

    That should be enough to control more than the First Island Chain, to say the least.

    That all is almost inevitable at this point. You should expect nothing else from a country that will be the undeniable number 1 economy in the world by 2030 and that a mere decade ago had very few modern destroyers or… supercomputers (just one example).

    You won’t accept it. The “China can’t into nuclear subs” meme will live on for some time, doesn’t matter. We’ll see.

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    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    You underestimate the Chinese submarine fleet and technologies.
     
    Sorry, but I don't.

    They already have more than 40 modern diesel submarines (Improved Kilos, Type 039s and Type 041s), which already makes it by far the largest modern SSK fleet in the world.
     
    SSKs, even with AIP ARE not designed for a sustained blue water operations on SLOCs. To "win" Indian Ocean, PLAN will need a very large fleet of state-of-the-art SS(G)Ns. China simply doesn't have such fleet. You agree with me below:

    Yeah, sure, you have a point when it comes to far away SLOCs, which require nuclear subs… I mean you’re sort of correct, until 2025-30. But there are some major issues with the narrative:
     
    Creating advanced nuclear power sub, especially admitted by peers as a world-class weapon system, is enormously difficult and is not only based on getting some acceptable noise levels, however important this task is. Obviously PLAN was improving but most of its statements about its SSNs are, at best exaggerations, at worst suffer from detachment from reality. China is nowhere near still with such designs and, actual, subs as Project 885 or Virginia-class.

    It is the same thing with aircraft engines: China will inevitably be competitive in both by the mid 20s. Considering your overall expertise on the Chinese military, you probably haven’t heard, but China has recently tested J-20s with Chinese engines (not to mention, again, that there are hundreds of modern Chinese Flanker variants operational with… CHINESE engines). Yeah, they really are sooo far behind…
     
    They are behind, nor J-20 is realistically a 5th generation fighter. Nor overblown in mostly US media DF-21 is real carrier-killer, nor many other things that China proclaims to be ready any minute now and be competitive.

    Russia will have a similar number of SSN (and SSGNs) in 2030… I mean how many Yashens and upcoming Huskys do you think they will have by that time? Maybe they are veeery stronk and they’ll have 200? But no seriously… maybe 12? Plus the older, albeit upgraded, boats. (Which is of course still a good number, especially when you include the 20 or so SSKs, but Russia AHEAD of China in 2030? No, just no. That’s just not how any of this works.).
     
    Russia's naval interests and necessities and Chinese ones are really quite different--Russia HAS an option of NOT fighting on SLOCs and having both strategic containment and, if necessary, power projection capabilities quite easily addressed. China doesn't have such an option unless she goes Full Monty to NSR, under the cover of Russia's A2/AD bubble there. Per Chinese Aircraft Carriers--get acquainted with this, could be a good supplement in understanding that just the technology, while important, has much more to it than a hardware, which still must be top-notch.

    http://www.airuniversity.af.mil/Portals/10/CASI/documents/Research/PLAN_Aviation/PLA%20Naval%20Aviation%20Web%20PDF%20v2.pdf?ver=2017-12-20-093117-563

    Also, when it comes to Chinese ASW: probably 20-30 of those frigates will be a new class that heavily focuses on ASW and China will also have atleast 4 helicopter carriers…
     
    Get to Google maps and take a look at 2000 miles which separate Guam from the major Choke Point and main deployment route into the Indian Ocean from China and ask yourself a question on how many P-8 Poseidons and how many Virginias will be hanging in and around this Gap waiting for PLAN to deploy? Do not forget that the US Navy can deploy (if push comes to shove) minimum of 2 CBGs, whose number of the attack fighter aircraft will surpass, and by far, all number of theoretical aircraft on all 4 Chinese carriers. So, there is a colossal number of technological, operational and strategic questions China needs to answer before we all may say that, sure--here is the preeminent military power of our time. China is not there yet, not by a long shot.

    3. Lately there have been many reports about China’s recent and upcoming breakthroughs in nuclear sub tech and the construction of new submarine factory/factories
     
    When it happens, will talk. I am not saying that it will not--but I have some vague (wink, wink) ideas on what it takes to develop and build a state-of-the-art Navy (and Armed Forces), so I will reserve my opinions for now.
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  34. @George Orwell
    Poor Vlad, don’t you know that the West will never truly accept Russia? The kind of Russophobic neo-Mcarthyism I see in America precludes the possibilty of reproachment in the long term.

    You moron! Vlad closes the valves and Europe changes to wasteland.

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  35. gT says:
    @Jean de Peyrelongue
    Very instructive and fascinating paper !
    I was impressed by Putin's statement concerning the fate of white European Christian Civilization; but it may be too late to save it.
    I am afraid that the Zionist Empire is after the destruction of the European Christian Civilization. They are motivated by a revenge feeling agaisnt the countries where they have been living for centuries.
    The New World Order, they are selling, is calling for the destruction of the Christian Civilization: the family, the traditional values and the many cultures of the various European people. They are behind these great invasions that Europe, today, is subject to. They expect these invasions to have on Europe a similar effect to what happened to the Roman Empire.
    Everyday, Europe is walking further down into hell.

    Agree, brilliant article. The Russian and Chinese motivations are clear; survive, prosper and grow fat. But what is the Empires’, the Anglo-Zionists’ motive? It is not to survive, prosper and grow fat.

    Currently they are destroying Europe. Ok, that prevents either Russia or China from benefiting from Europe. So bye-bye Europe. But they are destroying the USA also. With Europe and the USA gone as prosperous trading countries, that means China goes down also (China needs to trade to survive, lots of trade). That leaves just Russia sitting comfortably because Russia has everything it needs already.

    Bringing down Europe can lead to a single marshal law government there, bringing down the North American continent can lead to a single marshal law government there. Maybe the 2 marshal law governments across the Atlantic will merge into one government, that leaves a single marshal law government in control of both North America and Europe. And all along Russia is just sitting comfortably and will grow even stronger while Europe and North America go through their purposefully induced multi cultural marshal law merging spasms.

    But how does this fit in with the elite wanting a smaller global population to control? So the worlds’ population needs to be made smaller. The only way is by instigating a global nuclear and biological war at the right time, and then later the elite emerge from their bomb shelters with sufficient resources (doomsday vaults) at hand to control whatever remains. And that is the only way to get rid of the stubborn Russian problem. The coming mini ice age might be the right time for the ‘elites’ to try their luck.

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  36. @Beckow
    Europe has never been bound by its geography. Is Novosibirsk more or less European than Brussels or large parts of London and Paris? Visit both and tell us...

    There are 'European' like parts of the rest of the world, in South America, Australia,... do you also object when someone refers to their European character?

    There are ‘European’ like parts of the rest of the world, in South America, Australia,… do you also object when someone refers to their European character?

    He probably never heard about US and Canada having a predominantly European culture. He also never heard about Northern Belt.

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    • Replies: @Sergey Krieger
    Culture is white but it is getting hard to find whites in Toronto.
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  37. @Andrei Martyanov
    Somebody will--and this is a long game. A lot in it depends on the fate of the United States, what it eventually becomes. A huge, huge question mark. I wrote for years now that Russia and US are natural allies, it is too bad that American "elites" are, for the most part, dumb as a stump.

    I guess the only way USA and Russia becomes natural allies is when USA becomes regional power. It looks like current and previous conditions tend to create extremely anti Russian elites. American status and psychology should change imho for this to happen.

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    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    I guess the only way USA and Russia becomes natural allies is when USA becomes regional power. It looks like current and previous conditions tend to create extremely anti Russian elites. American status and psychology should change imho for this to happen.
     
    You are spot on here. This is also the trend now. Trump's victory is a first major sign of the split in American elites and this fragmentation is a strong symptom of inability to sustain anymore global, grossly exaggerated at that, status. The US will retain some of its true strengths from commercial aviation and electronics, among some, through strong navy but it will be forced to "settle" at some point with most likely China or Russia. Who is it going to be? I don't think the US as a culture wants China--it automatically means the third world. At some point neocons will be removed, even if for a reasons of completely running the US into the ground. Hopefully, we'll see this transition which is already in progress come to some sensible end.
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  38. CK says:
    @Ilyana_Rozumova
    Transport by ships is more economical for large quantities of merchandise.
    Transport by train is more efficient for smaller quantities of merchandise.
    It is quicker and more efficient. This fact is particularly significant for merchandise like agricultural products with limited shelf life.
    That is very important in this case. Quick delivery from source to market plays very important role.

    Quick delivery over internal lines of communication that are not easy to interdict.
    It wasn’t just Mahan it was also Mackinder.
    Rail delivery from Xian to London has already been done. Now it is merely a matter of speeding it up and simplifying the paperwork. And as with the internet, the one belt one road can be routed around impediments ( political ). Secure passage of goods and peoples from Seoul to Lisbon From Singapore to Narvik, when the heartland is economically welded the peripheral nations become much less puissant.

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  39. @Beckow

    Soviet Russia was doing a lot of charity
     
    Yes, they were. I suppose they thought that it was to their 'benefit'. It didn't turn out that way. I think working to one's benefit is a larger concept than just charity. But you are right that some nations have a propensity to define self-interest more broadly and China is not one of them.

    I think die to this and overall China lack of appeal and national character I think Pax Sinica highly unlikely. China most probably does not have a lot what it takes to be the One. At the heart china has nothing to offer but walmart all over the place. Hardly a vision others want to participate.

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  40. Mitleser says:
    @WHAT
    Andrey, I wouldn`t call russian commercial airliner design world-class, not yet anyway. There is a strong claim to with the Yak-242(or however it will be called), including new engines, avionics, sertifications and host of other things you need to have a proper airliner, but so was SSJ, and where is it now?
    It can be argued that undeveloped support and logistics network was a reason for its failure, but then this problem endangers the new plane as well. Russians certainly understood at least some of the complexities, that is why Yakovlev is far more reserved when it comes to international market and goes for the home field advantage first.
    And then there is Airbus and/or Bombardier, which will probably jump into development partnership with chinese just as quickly as russians did for the right price.


    By the way, what do you think about the fresh LM claim that they now have some kind of hypersonic which was "impossible five years ago" because "computers"? I smell bullshit, considering how main impediment at such speeds is not control(otherwise nothing would ever return from orbit in one piece), but materials.

    And then there is Airbus and/or Bombardier, which will probably jump into development partnership with chinese just as quickly as russians did for the right price.

    Bombardier has sold their commercial aircraft business to Airbus and the Chinese.

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  41. @Andrei Martyanov

    There are ‘European’ like parts of the rest of the world, in South America, Australia,… do you also object when someone refers to their European character?
     
    He probably never heard about US and Canada having a predominantly European culture. He also never heard about Northern Belt.

    Culture is white but it is getting hard to find whites in Toronto.

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  42. @Sergey Krieger
    I guess the only way USA and Russia becomes natural allies is when USA becomes regional power. It looks like current and previous conditions tend to create extremely anti Russian elites. American status and psychology should change imho for this to happen.

    I guess the only way USA and Russia becomes natural allies is when USA becomes regional power. It looks like current and previous conditions tend to create extremely anti Russian elites. American status and psychology should change imho for this to happen.

    You are spot on here. This is also the trend now. Trump’s victory is a first major sign of the split in American elites and this fragmentation is a strong symptom of inability to sustain anymore global, grossly exaggerated at that, status. The US will retain some of its true strengths from commercial aviation and electronics, among some, through strong navy but it will be forced to “settle” at some point with most likely China or Russia. Who is it going to be? I don’t think the US as a culture wants China–it automatically means the third world. At some point neocons will be removed, even if for a reasons of completely running the US into the ground. Hopefully, we’ll see this transition which is already in progress come to some sensible end.

    Read More
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  43. Many good points but, in a general way, I think the author seriously underestimates the role of airpower in modern warfare. Mahan’s book dates from 1890, at a time when aviation didn’t even exist, to say nothing of radio, radar, spy satellites, or GPS. In Mahan’s day, and even down to WWII, once a fleet disappeared over the horizon, its whereabouts remained unknown until it popped up somewhere. That was the origin of the “fleet in being” theory: countries always had to allow for the possibility that an enemy fleet, that they knew was at sea, would suddenly pop up over the horizon. That’s no longer the case and today, control of the airspace over the battlefield is the essential element. Russia’s Arctic coast, which the author seems to regard as its best card, is extremely vulnerable to attack by land-based planes from North America, which avoids the current debate about the future usefulness of aircraft carriers. Any US – Russian war would almost certainly be mainly an air war over the Arctic, given the string of “resource sites” (oil, gas, coal etc.) stretching from just west of the Urals all the way to the Pacific coast.
    “The name of the Chinese game is Europe”. “China’s initiative is not that beneficial to Russia. In fact, it goes contrary to Russia’s own plans for creating a new Eurasian Economic Union”. That needed to be said. The Chinese plan has been presented in the US as being designed to prop up Putin but it is actually undermining him both by reaching out to the EU, in regard to which Putin has reduced Russia to being Washington’s stooge, and by disenclaving the Central Asian republics, breaking Russia’s stranglehold on their communications by providing them with rail links to seaports. I think the author’s assessment of the “alliance” with China is thus a bit exaggerated. It is, as he says, merely designed to secure China’s rear. I would doubt if it could properly be called a fully-fledged military alliance.
    “In the end, the United States also needs Europe in a desperate attempt to revitalize own economy by utilizing the subjugated and split EU as the main market for US hydrocarbons and goods”. The idea that the US is trying to subjugate and split the EU also needed to be said and Putin’s mistake was to make himself part of that operation. Putin has told so many lies that nobody now knows what to believe but concerns for the fate of white European Christian Civilization and the desire to preserve it will be music to the ears of EU leaders. Russia is a European country and the Russians are the most numerous European ethnic group. The claim that they are not is part of the abovementioned US campaign to destroy the EU. Europe gets the signal loud and clear but does Putin? He must realise that there can be no deal with the EU until he removes himself from Ukraine and, probably, until he himself leaves power. If the US leaves Europe in the lurch, then it will destroy itself, be simply bypassed as a player in Eurasia, as the author puts it. By making himself an American stooge, Putin has become a liability to the gangsters who put him into power and, indeed, to the American groups that want to use him as a battering ram to destroy the EU. Do they get the signal?

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    • Replies: @WHAT
    >muh jewkraine

    Your fixation on this particular rump state is truly fascinating.
    , @V
    Many good points but, in a general way, I think the author seriously underestimates the role of airpower in modern warfare...Any US – Russian war would almost certainly be mainly an air war..

    The almost exact same point you've made was made in an 1853 geo-political book published in the United States entitled The New Rome. What I don't understand is why almost no one knows of this book...though I have my suspicions.

    pg.155-156

    ‘It [air power] will give us the victory over Russian continentalism. American air-privateers will be down upon the Russian garrisons, to use our own expressive slang, ‘like a parcel of bricks’...

    The New Rome; or, the United States of the World - 1853

    We are on the eve of aerial navigation…

    The first four acts already past,
    A fifth shall close the drama with the day;
    Time’s noblest offspring is the last.

    The sea is less confined than the river, the ocean more ubiquitous than the sea, but the air alone is fitted for a universal civilization. Its shores are every where; it can penetrate the poles ; it will settle the wilds of Tartary and the valleys of Central Africa. It will know no harbors and no ports, no depots and no entrepots. It will make all parts of the earth alike passable and alike accessible. It will give us the victory over Russian continentalism. Freedom is now limited to the oceanic world, to England and America ; Russia, with its continental dependencies, is despotic ; it has no ships, and therefore no freedom ; no freedom, and therefore no navy; having no navy, it can never do great injury to the seafaring world. But its despotism gives it an army, and its army will protect its despotism. The seafaring nations, on the other hand, have their navy to protect their freedom, but they will never have a large standing army to extend their system. To suppose this, would be to deny every leading characteristic of Americanism. This would keep the two halves of the world in a state of perpetual isolation, did not the navigation of the air restore them to a common element. American air-privateers will be down upon the Russian garrisons — to use our own expressive slang — ” like a parcel of bricks ;” and the Russian serfs will fasten to their skirts, and be elevated to a share in their liberties.
     
    Compare the above excerpt from pg 155-156 of the 1853 New Rome book referencing US/UK domination of the sea and air with something written about the modern Russian Alexander Dugin below. A person might begin to think that these things were being manipulated between the US and Russia. Dugin’s theories foresee an eternal world conflict between land and sea, and hence, Dugin believes, the U.S. and Russia.

    Are the peoples of the world being played on a mass scale?

    Dugin’s theories foresee an eternal world conflict between land and sea, and hence, Dugin believes, the U.S. and Russia. He says, “In principle, Eurasia and our space, the heartland Russia, remain the staging area of a new anti-bourgeois, anti-American revolution.” According to his 1997 book, The Basics of Geopolitics, “The new Eurasian empire will be constructed on the fundamental principle of the common enemy: the rejection of Atlanticism, strategic control of the USA, and the refusal to allow liberal [anarchic] values to dominate us. This common civilizational impulse will be the basis of a political and strategic union.”
     
    https://majorityrights.com/weblog/comments/the_new_rome_or_the_united_states_of_the_world_1853

    https://archive.org/details/newrome00poes

    https://archive.org/details/politicalprophec00goe
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  44. Beckow says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    My original point was that Russia and the European east in general need to forget about the West as the only panacea, or as something that will last, and find a way forward with any allies they can find (China seems like one). Or they can collapse into ‘multi-culturalism’ and learn to like it…
     
    This already happened in Russia. It is pronounced, noticeable and irrefutable--never in my life did I see so much contempt to the contemporary West from majority of Russian people. It is, indeed, a revolutionary change.

    … so much contempt to the contemporary West from majority of Russian people

    This is matched by an outright hatred and fear by large majorities in the West. What we have is polarisation and escalation. That is a dead end and only benefits third parties.

    When a sensible country like Netherlands has 90% people say that they fear and dislike Russia, there is a problem. We can blame it on the media campaigns, politicians, or even lost Malaysian airlines, it still doesn’t account for the emotion. The same is true about other previously more normal countries like Canada, Sweden or Finland. Something is going on, and on both sides. In Central Europe the numbers are much better, but the polarisation is palpable – the NGO Atlanticist types in big cities openly hate anything Russian, most nationalist leaning groups (not all) take a militant pro-Putin positions. There is no discussion, just name-calling.

    It is heading towards a confrontation. The first step of dehumanising and demonising the ‘enemy’ has been done – in the West almost totally, I don’t know about Russia. Next crisis could be fatal for all of us. The constraints (definitely in the West) are off. They have talked for so long about the dreadful Russian enemy, they might talk themselves into another war.

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    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    It is heading towards a confrontation.
     
    It depends what type of "confrontation". If we are talking military one--Europe and US have no chance. If it is a cultural clash, what can I say--sad, but then again, is current Europe even worth fighting for? Is it even Europe anymore? That is the main question. As long as Europe buys Russia's affordable energy and washing machines, among many other things, it is fine with Russians. After 2019 it might not be that crucial altogether. Putin effectively staked Russia as Europe in his speech at Valdai. So, in some cynical sense, it is Europe's problems not Russia's. In fact, the number of people in Russia demanding new Iron Curtain is growing. Russia is certainly not intent to "attack" Europe (what for) and she is entirely capable now to defeat any attempt on herself. We'll see how it plays out in Ukraine and then we will have a larger "data set" to play with.
    , @jilles dykstra
    " When a sensible country like Netherlands has 90% people say that they fear and dislike Russia, there is a problem. "
    Who says so ?
    Our politicians and media ?
    We voted by referendum against the EU association treaty with Ukraine, largely because of the military cooperation paragraph, we do not want war with Russia.
    For me Putin is the man who saves the world from USA dominance.
    What I fear is NATO, and USA generals who talk about tactical hydrogen bombs.
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  45. @George Orwell
    Poor Vlad, don’t you know that the West will never truly accept Russia? The kind of Russophobic neo-Mcarthyism I see in America precludes the possibilty of reproachment in the long term.

    The russophobia is a media construct, and “a mile wide and an inch deep” is how it should be viewed. All of it would disappear overnight with a change in the media’s messages. The extent to which a person would believe that it is real is proportional to that person’s reliance on the msm for his worldview.

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    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    Agreed.

    "I ain't got nuthin against them Russians. No Russian ever called me deplorable".
    , @yurivku

    The russophobia is a media construct, and “a mile wide and an inch deep” is how it should be viewed.
     
    I'm afraid not. I'm sure it's not the case.
    West got it with mothers milk. Many generations grown up with the hate to Russia.
    And currently we, Russians, have feelings like something between hate and contempt to common "West".
    Dirty games with sport, santions, fake news did theirs work.
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  46. WHAT says:
    @Michael Kenny
    Many good points but, in a general way, I think the author seriously underestimates the role of airpower in modern warfare. Mahan’s book dates from 1890, at a time when aviation didn’t even exist, to say nothing of radio, radar, spy satellites, or GPS. In Mahan’s day, and even down to WWII, once a fleet disappeared over the horizon, its whereabouts remained unknown until it popped up somewhere. That was the origin of the “fleet in being” theory: countries always had to allow for the possibility that an enemy fleet, that they knew was at sea, would suddenly pop up over the horizon. That’s no longer the case and today, control of the airspace over the battlefield is the essential element. Russia’s Arctic coast, which the author seems to regard as its best card, is extremely vulnerable to attack by land-based planes from North America, which avoids the current debate about the future usefulness of aircraft carriers. Any US – Russian war would almost certainly be mainly an air war over the Arctic, given the string of “resource sites” (oil, gas, coal etc.) stretching from just west of the Urals all the way to the Pacific coast.
    “The name of the Chinese game is Europe”. “China’s initiative is not that beneficial to Russia. In fact, it goes contrary to Russia’s own plans for creating a new Eurasian Economic Union”. That needed to be said. The Chinese plan has been presented in the US as being designed to prop up Putin but it is actually undermining him both by reaching out to the EU, in regard to which Putin has reduced Russia to being Washington’s stooge, and by disenclaving the Central Asian republics, breaking Russia’s stranglehold on their communications by providing them with rail links to seaports. I think the author’s assessment of the “alliance” with China is thus a bit exaggerated. It is, as he says, merely designed to secure China's rear. I would doubt if it could properly be called a fully-fledged military alliance.
    “In the end, the United States also needs Europe in a desperate attempt to revitalize own economy by utilizing the subjugated and split EU as the main market for US hydrocarbons and goods”. The idea that the US is trying to subjugate and split the EU also needed to be said and Putin’s mistake was to make himself part of that operation. Putin has told so many lies that nobody now knows what to believe but concerns for the fate of white European Christian Civilization and the desire to preserve it will be music to the ears of EU leaders. Russia is a European country and the Russians are the most numerous European ethnic group. The claim that they are not is part of the abovementioned US campaign to destroy the EU. Europe gets the signal loud and clear but does Putin? He must realise that there can be no deal with the EU until he removes himself from Ukraine and, probably, until he himself leaves power. If the US leaves Europe in the lurch, then it will destroy itself, be simply bypassed as a player in Eurasia, as the author puts it. By making himself an American stooge, Putin has become a liability to the gangsters who put him into power and, indeed, to the American groups that want to use him as a battering ram to destroy the EU. Do they get the signal?

    >muh jewkraine

    Your fixation on this particular rump state is truly fascinating.

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  47. @WorkingClass
    Russia and China can hang together or hang separately. Western Europe can get with the New Silk Road and prosper or stick with the Anglo/Zio Empire and become a shit hole. Same can be said of the United States. Is it ironic that only Putin wants to preserve Western Christian culture? Americans could help by teaching their children it's Okay to be white. Is it ironic that America made China great again? Thanks Bill Clinton. De-dollarization will ultimately bring down the evil empire. But with Israel in charge of American foreign policy it is possible that Washington will become the dog in the manger and just blow up the world so nobody else can have it.

    Thanks for the good read. I had thought Russian activity in the Arctic was just about the oil.

    “Americans could help by teaching their children it’s Okay to be white”

    I think that most Americans do teach their children this. It’s the msm (and mostly TV) that carries the meme that white people are outnumbered and powerless.

    ” Is it ironic that America made China great again? Thanks Bill Clinton.”

    You can’t blame Clinton alone. Nixon paved the way by obeying his handlers’ urgings to give the old WASP power brokers their access to the China market that they had slavered over for 150+ years. After Nixon went to China, the process was continued by the presidents who followed him, picking up steam under GHW Bush, Clinton, W, and Obama.

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    • Agree: Andrei Martyanov
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  48. @Kimppis
    Well, what the hell, this article is actually pretty good.

    But I'll repeat this again:

    You underestimate the Chinese submarine fleet and technologies.

    They already have more than 40 modern diesel submarines (Improved Kilos, Type 039s and Type 041s), which already makes it by far the largest modern SSK fleet in the world.

    Yeah, sure, you have a point when it comes to far away SLOCs, which require nuclear subs... I mean you're sort of correct, until 2025-30. But there are some major issues with the narrative:

    1. AFAK, the infamous "ONI chart" was published before the first Type 093 was even launched

    2. The most recent Type 093 variants look outwardly quite different and they are likely to be considerable improvements

    3. Lately there have been many reports about China's recent and upcoming breakthroughs in nuclear sub tech and the construction of new submarine factory/factories

    4. And most importantly: the new SSN-class: Type 096, should logically already be competitive

    There is a gap of around 15 years, if not more, between the Type 093 and 096, which is absolutely massive when it comes to China and especially its nuclear subs. That means it will be a huge jump in technology.

    If the original variant of Type 093, even according to ONI's "chart" was somewhat comparable to some of the oldest Russian and American boats still in service, the newer Type 093 variants even better, then the 096 should atleast be reasonably close to Yashens and Virginias, and for example certainly quieter than all the other Russian nuclear attack subs that are older than the Yashen-class. Why on earth would you predict anything else?

    The Type 096 will be the Type 052C/D of SSNs, as simple as that. The first one is probably already under construction, or atleast very close. And its competitiveness will be proven if and when the Chinese start ordering them in large numbers. Just like with their Type 052D destroyers, or even the Cs.

    It is the same thing with aircraft engines: China will inevitably be competitive in both by the mid 20s. Considering your overall expertise on the Chinese military, you probably haven't heard, but China has recently tested J-20s with Chinese engines (not to mention, again, that there are hundreds of modern Chinese Flanker variants operational with... CHINESE engines). Yeah, they really are sooo far behind...

    So overall, by 2030 China will likely have ATLEAST four carriers, maybe even 5 or 6, 60 modern destroyers and atleast 50 modern frigates, more than 60 modern SSKs and atleast 20 more or less modern nuclear attack subs.

    Russia will have a similar number of SSN (and SSGNs) in 2030... I mean how many Yashens and upcoming Huskys do you think they will have by that time? Maybe they are veeery stronk and they'll have 200? But no seriously... maybe 12? Plus the older, albeit upgraded, boats. (Which is of course still a good number, especially when you include the 20 or so SSKs, but Russia AHEAD of China in 2030? No, just no. That's just not how any of this works.).

    Also, when it comes to Chinese ASW: probably 20-30 of those frigates will be a new class that heavily focuses on ASW and China will also have atleast 4 helicopter carriers...

    That should be enough to control more than the First Island Chain, to say the least.

    That all is almost inevitable at this point. You should expect nothing else from a country that will be the undeniable number 1 economy in the world by 2030 and that a mere decade ago had very few modern destroyers or... supercomputers (just one example).

    You won't accept it. The "China can't into nuclear subs" meme will live on for some time, doesn't matter. We'll see.

    You underestimate the Chinese submarine fleet and technologies.

    Sorry, but I don’t.

    They already have more than 40 modern diesel submarines (Improved Kilos, Type 039s and Type 041s), which already makes it by far the largest modern SSK fleet in the world.

    SSKs, even with AIP ARE not designed for a sustained blue water operations on SLOCs. To “win” Indian Ocean, PLAN will need a very large fleet of state-of-the-art SS(G)Ns. China simply doesn’t have such fleet. You agree with me below:

    Yeah, sure, you have a point when it comes to far away SLOCs, which require nuclear subs… I mean you’re sort of correct, until 2025-30. But there are some major issues with the narrative:

    Creating advanced nuclear power sub, especially admitted by peers as a world-class weapon system, is enormously difficult and is not only based on getting some acceptable noise levels, however important this task is. Obviously PLAN was improving but most of its statements about its SSNs are, at best exaggerations, at worst suffer from detachment from reality. China is nowhere near still with such designs and, actual, subs as Project 885 or Virginia-class.

    It is the same thing with aircraft engines: China will inevitably be competitive in both by the mid 20s. Considering your overall expertise on the Chinese military, you probably haven’t heard, but China has recently tested J-20s with Chinese engines (not to mention, again, that there are hundreds of modern Chinese Flanker variants operational with… CHINESE engines). Yeah, they really are sooo far behind…

    They are behind, nor J-20 is realistically a 5th generation fighter. Nor overblown in mostly US media DF-21 is real carrier-killer, nor many other things that China proclaims to be ready any minute now and be competitive.

    Russia will have a similar number of SSN (and SSGNs) in 2030… I mean how many Yashens and upcoming Huskys do you think they will have by that time? Maybe they are veeery stronk and they’ll have 200? But no seriously… maybe 12? Plus the older, albeit upgraded, boats. (Which is of course still a good number, especially when you include the 20 or so SSKs, but Russia AHEAD of China in 2030? No, just no. That’s just not how any of this works.).

    Russia’s naval interests and necessities and Chinese ones are really quite different–Russia HAS an option of NOT fighting on SLOCs and having both strategic containment and, if necessary, power projection capabilities quite easily addressed. China doesn’t have such an option unless she goes Full Monty to NSR, under the cover of Russia’s A2/AD bubble there. Per Chinese Aircraft Carriers–get acquainted with this, could be a good supplement in understanding that just the technology, while important, has much more to it than a hardware, which still must be top-notch.

    http://www.airuniversity.af.mil/Portals/10/CASI/documents/Research/PLAN_Aviation/PLA%20Naval%20Aviation%20Web%20PDF%20v2.pdf?ver=2017-12-20-093117-563

    Also, when it comes to Chinese ASW: probably 20-30 of those frigates will be a new class that heavily focuses on ASW and China will also have atleast 4 helicopter carriers…

    Get to Google maps and take a look at 2000 miles which separate Guam from the major Choke Point and main deployment route into the Indian Ocean from China and ask yourself a question on how many P-8 Poseidons and how many Virginias will be hanging in and around this Gap waiting for PLAN to deploy? Do not forget that the US Navy can deploy (if push comes to shove) minimum of 2 CBGs, whose number of the attack fighter aircraft will surpass, and by far, all number of theoretical aircraft on all 4 Chinese carriers. So, there is a colossal number of technological, operational and strategic questions China needs to answer before we all may say that, sure–here is the preeminent military power of our time. China is not there yet, not by a long shot.

    3. Lately there have been many reports about China’s recent and upcoming breakthroughs in nuclear sub tech and the construction of new submarine factory/factories

    When it happens, will talk. I am not saying that it will not–but I have some vague (wink, wink) ideas on what it takes to develop and build a state-of-the-art Navy (and Armed Forces), so I will reserve my opinions for now.

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    • Replies: @bluedog
    One thing you should bear in mind is that we have always underestimated China and what they could do,where we stated that it would take them 10 years to go from point A to point B it took them 5 and that's always the way its been...
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  49. @Beckow

    ... so much contempt to the contemporary West from majority of Russian people
     
    This is matched by an outright hatred and fear by large majorities in the West. What we have is polarisation and escalation. That is a dead end and only benefits third parties.

    When a sensible country like Netherlands has 90% people say that they fear and dislike Russia, there is a problem. We can blame it on the media campaigns, politicians, or even lost Malaysian airlines, it still doesn't account for the emotion. The same is true about other previously more normal countries like Canada, Sweden or Finland. Something is going on, and on both sides. In Central Europe the numbers are much better, but the polarisation is palpable - the NGO Atlanticist types in big cities openly hate anything Russian, most nationalist leaning groups (not all) take a militant pro-Putin positions. There is no discussion, just name-calling.

    It is heading towards a confrontation. The first step of dehumanising and demonising the 'enemy' has been done - in the West almost totally, I don't know about Russia. Next crisis could be fatal for all of us. The constraints (definitely in the West) are off. They have talked for so long about the dreadful Russian enemy, they might talk themselves into another war.

    It is heading towards a confrontation.

    It depends what type of “confrontation”. If we are talking military one–Europe and US have no chance. If it is a cultural clash, what can I say–sad, but then again, is current Europe even worth fighting for? Is it even Europe anymore? That is the main question. As long as Europe buys Russia’s affordable energy and washing machines, among many other things, it is fine with Russians. After 2019 it might not be that crucial altogether. Putin effectively staked Russia as Europe in his speech at Valdai. So, in some cynical sense, it is Europe’s problems not Russia’s. In fact, the number of people in Russia demanding new Iron Curtain is growing. Russia is certainly not intent to “attack” Europe (what for) and she is entirely capable now to defeat any attempt on herself. We’ll see how it plays out in Ukraine and then we will have a larger “data set” to play with.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Beckow
    We could have a military confrontation if an unexpected event is escalated - anywhere in the world. In that case, nobody has a 'chance', we would all be losers. From Ukraine, Korea, Syria, Iran, to an overly enthusiastic Danish F16 pilot, given the lack of good will and furious hatred in the West, how would anyone stop it? Most Western media is in a full yellow journalism mode yelling for a war ('but not really', right?). At some point perceptions become reality. It is hard to walk back crazy talk in a crisis. What politician would take a chance?

    Culturally, I more or less agree with you. The West has shot itself in the foot. Out of either hubris or desperation, the West has gradually politicised every institution; from Hollywood to the Olympics, from travel advisories to media campaigns and 'truth agencies'. (By the way, how does a 'truth agency' as setup by EU or Nato differ from a simple censorship? Has there ever been a censor who didn't claim that they were doing it to 'suppress lies or heresies'?)

    Even cynicism has to have a rational goal. If Western Europe becomes a harder working, colder version of the Third World, it is not good for either Central Europe or Russia. Central Europe due to its size and proximity would eventually follow the West. An isolated Russia is a vulnerable Russia. As many have pointed out, during times of isolation something in the Russian psyche kicks in and starts the mad yearning for the 'West', to be like 'Paris', to sell it all for a nice smile. It would happen again. And the fact that by then Paris might as well be an Oudagoudou with Metro (decrepit anyway), will not stop the Russian yearning - it is in the soul.

    We would all be better off if rationality would prevail and people would go back to mature behaviour and some sense of normalcy. On all sides.
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  50. @Beckow
    Russia might see itself as a part of Europe, but most Western Europeans have never seen it that way. So it is like knocking on a door that will never open. West has very publicly given up on its 'white, Christian, European civilisation' - we are at a tipping point when pure demographics will determine this. What common 'culture' can there be with massive population replacement? Maybe a new culture, but not what one would call 'white, Christian, European'.

    An alternative is to save what can be saved, and find allies who will help. China, Central Asia and parts of Middle East can do that. Can multi-cultural and rapidly devolving Germany or France? By 2050, most of Western Europe will be a different culture than today. Will the 'high-tech machine sector' will still be viable?

    Central Eastern Europe is caught in the middle - as they have been throughout most of history. They cannot on their own keep Europe European. Eventually for a number of reasons (including their own confused identities) they would succumb to what is ailing the West. The fish rots from its head, and if the rot is to stop, it would have to be done there. Looking at London, Paris, Berlin leaders and their hapless populations, I don't see any will to do it. End of liners display very specific characteristics: moronic relativism, hedonism, absurdity, inability to understand that some rules of the game - or constraints - cannot be changed, and, of course, no children. Looking at Western Europe that behaviour is dominant, so what there to save?

    Russia might see itself as a part of Europe, but most Western Europeans have never seen it that way. So it is like knocking on a door that will never open.

    I haven’t read the post (later, it’s long). But, your comment is only partially right. True, most Western Europeans had not, until the 19th C, considered Russia to be a part of the “West”- but the majority of thinking women & men do consider it now (and have been in past 100-150 years).

    What is West?

    It is a combination of three elements:

    1. Greco-Roman heritage
    2. Christianity
    3. rational & scientific spirit going back to 18th C Enlightenment

    If we include the Renaissance as the prerequisite, Russia would not pass the check. But nor would Norway, Sweden or Greece. Not persuasive, no …

    If it is because of a regional variant of Christianity, then we should also dispense with Greece, something hardly imaginable- they’re the cradle of the Western civilization.

    Looking at Russian history, identity & culture in past, say, 3 centuries, it definitely belongs to Europe. Moreover, there is not a single specifically Russian cultural trait that is alien or incomprehensible to the “core” West of France, Italy or Switzerland.

    Unlike Arab world, east Asia, India,…among civilizations. And I even won’t mention shitholes.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    Petersburg was full of western merchants in 1917, when Lenin grabbed power.
    They were expelled.
    How long Dutch merchants lived there, I suppose in any case from the 17th century.
    , @Beckow
    Yes, you are right and still most people in Western Europe (and some in the east, all the way to Ukraine) do not consider Russia to be a part of Europe. It is an emotional position. Occasionally they will drop it when convenient, but the dislike of Russia eventually prevails.

    Use some basic criteria for inclusion:
    - Is Russia treated by the same standards as Europe treats itself? Obviously not, the rules are applied completely differently from Kosovo-Crimea, ethnic minority questions, to applying due process in institutions (last example being the Olympic doping).

    What is West?

    It is a combination of three elements:

    1. Greco-Roman heritage
    2. Christianity
    3. rational & scientific spirit going back to 18th C Enlightenment

     

    I would add that Europe (what you refer to as 'West') is also infrastructure, engineering competence, society norms, etc...

    Greece-Rome is too ancient, Christianity has been almost explicitly abandoned in the West, and rational spirit requires consistent critical thinking - that is in short supply in official Europe these days.

    Russia will be accepted by Western Europeans as 'Europe' when nobody will any longer want to be thought off as 'Western Europe'. The multi-culti nirvana with dirty streets, gangs and PC authoritarianism will then say to Russia: 'come in, you are one of us, can we move to your territory?, we have messed up our homes, please save us from our past indulgence'.
    , @Joe Wong
    The three elements you defined West is contradictory to each other and problematic. If point 3 stands, you are saying the West has never exist before 18th century Enlightenment, and you are condemning your ancestors as stupid, uneducated, superstitious, imitative, ignorant, passive, irrational, ritualistic, lazy, chaotic, spontaneous, insane, emotional, dysfunctional, enslaved, despotic, intolerant, corrupt, savage, barbaric, morally regressive and economically stagnant.

    Looking back to history, during the medieval Euopre Dark Age, i.e. before the Renaissance, Europe was indeed an ignorant, superstitious, enslaved, ritualistic, regressive, and barbaric place. Linking such shithole place to highly developed Greek and Roman civilizations required a leap of faith beyond the imagination of make believe Hollywood. If the West claims Greco-Roman heritage, probably the history of the highly develop Greek and Roman civilizations are fake news, hearsays, or manufactured consents in order to have a transition from a degenerated Greco-Roman civilization to degenerated medieval Dark Age Europe possible.

    Christianity is about love, equality, sharing, peace and forgiving. Yet since the European could sail outside of the Mediterranean Sea, the West's real contribution to human civilisation is Land/Resource grab, colonisation of the entire planet. Genocide, massacres of natives of Americas, Australia/New Zealand. Inhuman, despicable Slave trade to sustain those colonies. Perpetration of extreme violence to retain & extract resources from colonies all over the world. And unprecedented mass killings AMONG WHITES THEMSELVES masqueraded as WORLD WARS over spoils of the entire world.

    Then we have HOLLOWCAST as small sideshow, Total Human killings of just last 100 years .... Staggering 180 million human. The West also invented the way to blow up the earth and exterminate all of us into radioactive ashes, making all our existence and civilizations to void and null. It is a total betrayal of Christianity.

    None of the three elements you mentioned fits the West in according to what they behave and what they are, such concept construct is a fraud by masters of delusions, who mistakenly think we don’t know nothing …

    , @Bliss

    What is West?

    It is a combination of three elements:

    1. Greco-Roman heritage
    2. Christianity
    3. rational & scientific spirit going back to 18th C Enlightenment
     
    There are fundamental problems with this definition:

    1. Greco-Roman heritage was pagan in it’s origins. Christianity, which originated outside Europe, was adopted by the West many centuries after Athens and Rome at their prime.

    2. Christianity is not exclusive to the West.

    3. The rational and scientific spirit of the Enlightenment is utterly incompatible with Christian dogma.

    4. Rationalism and Science are not exclusive to the West.
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  51. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    In this discussion as well as in countless others the common thread is a tone of anti-Americanism. This is an unfortunate turn of events but is self-inflicted. At the end of the last war America had a lot of political capital, people looked to it as an example, the economy was providing a good life to many people and slogans of freedom and democracy fell on receptive ears everywhere. This has been squandered by the greed and shortsightedness of the ‘elites’, such as they are, as the US has become more openly predatory as it’s capabilities to do so have grown. I don’t even know if the US can continue to be considered to be ‘west’ as it seems to have morphed into some mongrelized hybrid offshoot. There’s no real culture you know, just some commercial junk-mind-rot. Let me point out that most of the anti-American comments here and elsewhere come from Americans themselves, can you believe it?

    Read More
    • Replies: @bluedog
    Yes I can for many if not most Americans are sick of what we have become,the endless wars the endless greed the endless killing, while America sinks ever deeper into the cesspool it created...
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  52. In the 19th century the Brits wanted to create a Cape-to-Cairo railway, the Germans a Berlin-to-Baghdad railway. Both of these far smaller and simpler projects failed.

    We’ll see.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mitleser
    The Eurasian railway is already reality.
    Last year, a train moved from China to London and back.
    , @jilles dykstra
    Britain engineered WWI because of the Berlin Basra railway.
    Edward Mead Earle, Ph.D., ‘Turkey, The Great Powers and The Bagdad Railway, A study in Imperialism’, 1923, 1924, New York
    The line was to go through Mosul, with a German concession of ten miles at both sides, through the richest then known oilfields.
    Lawrence (of Arabia), archeologist, spied on the progress.
    The connection to Basra was also feared, the British might lose their monopoly on exporting goods to India, smuggling from Basra to India could not be prevented.
    When I visited Aleppo in 1986 the railway station still existed, until the Syrian war tourist trains travelled from Istanbul to Aleppo, or Damascus, forgot which.
    In the thirties the British again feared Germany because of economic expansion to the south east:
    Lawrence R. Pratt, 'East of Malta, West of Suez', London, 1975
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  53. Beckow says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    It is heading towards a confrontation.
     
    It depends what type of "confrontation". If we are talking military one--Europe and US have no chance. If it is a cultural clash, what can I say--sad, but then again, is current Europe even worth fighting for? Is it even Europe anymore? That is the main question. As long as Europe buys Russia's affordable energy and washing machines, among many other things, it is fine with Russians. After 2019 it might not be that crucial altogether. Putin effectively staked Russia as Europe in his speech at Valdai. So, in some cynical sense, it is Europe's problems not Russia's. In fact, the number of people in Russia demanding new Iron Curtain is growing. Russia is certainly not intent to "attack" Europe (what for) and she is entirely capable now to defeat any attempt on herself. We'll see how it plays out in Ukraine and then we will have a larger "data set" to play with.

    We could have a military confrontation if an unexpected event is escalated – anywhere in the world. In that case, nobody has a ‘chance’, we would all be losers. From Ukraine, Korea, Syria, Iran, to an overly enthusiastic Danish F16 pilot, given the lack of good will and furious hatred in the West, how would anyone stop it? Most Western media is in a full yellow journalism mode yelling for a war (‘but not really’, right?). At some point perceptions become reality. It is hard to walk back crazy talk in a crisis. What politician would take a chance?

    Culturally, I more or less agree with you. The West has shot itself in the foot. Out of either hubris or desperation, the West has gradually politicised every institution; from Hollywood to the Olympics, from travel advisories to media campaigns and ‘truth agencies’. (By the way, how does a ‘truth agency’ as setup by EU or Nato differ from a simple censorship? Has there ever been a censor who didn’t claim that they were doing it to ‘suppress lies or heresies’?)

    Even cynicism has to have a rational goal. If Western Europe becomes a harder working, colder version of the Third World, it is not good for either Central Europe or Russia. Central Europe due to its size and proximity would eventually follow the West. An isolated Russia is a vulnerable Russia. As many have pointed out, during times of isolation something in the Russian psyche kicks in and starts the mad yearning for the ‘West’, to be like ‘Paris’, to sell it all for a nice smile. It would happen again. And the fact that by then Paris might as well be an Oudagoudou with Metro (decrepit anyway), will not stop the Russian yearning – it is in the soul.

    We would all be better off if rationality would prevail and people would go back to mature behaviour and some sense of normalcy. On all sides.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sergey Krieger
    If Europe indeed turns into the Zoo ran by monkeys it will not be able to afford any sort of modem military thus potentially becoming easy picking for Russia if she is provoked and in this case she will most certainly will be. I believe europe is too valuable real estate to Leave hér to savages. In this case Reconquista comes to mind. And Russia might finally resolve the issue you described. Russian mood will certainly be different in the future from now. Looks like destiny. After so many visits by partners ...
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  54. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    “…Russia, the US, China and Europe. These four players must sort their problems out in a peaceful and civilized way—there is no other viable option.”

    All four are controlled to an unimaginable degree (MSM never reports it) by banksters, Ziomedia, neocons et al, who are willing to trash the world to rule as masters what’s left of it. They make money by war, not peace. This world problem must be addressed, just as drug kingpins need taken down to solve that problem. This series should be required viewing in all universities and by all governments, but may not even be online much longer. Please see Part 1 (the alternate link just above the video is best): https://europathelastbattle.wordpress.com/watch/

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    • Replies: @Anon
    I just checked the alternate link I recommended above Part 1 of the 'Europa - The Last Battle' series and find it's been compromised. Here is a link to Part 1 that's still working - you have to choose to see it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcH00ZC3Df0
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  55. @Beckow
    We could have a military confrontation if an unexpected event is escalated - anywhere in the world. In that case, nobody has a 'chance', we would all be losers. From Ukraine, Korea, Syria, Iran, to an overly enthusiastic Danish F16 pilot, given the lack of good will and furious hatred in the West, how would anyone stop it? Most Western media is in a full yellow journalism mode yelling for a war ('but not really', right?). At some point perceptions become reality. It is hard to walk back crazy talk in a crisis. What politician would take a chance?

    Culturally, I more or less agree with you. The West has shot itself in the foot. Out of either hubris or desperation, the West has gradually politicised every institution; from Hollywood to the Olympics, from travel advisories to media campaigns and 'truth agencies'. (By the way, how does a 'truth agency' as setup by EU or Nato differ from a simple censorship? Has there ever been a censor who didn't claim that they were doing it to 'suppress lies or heresies'?)

    Even cynicism has to have a rational goal. If Western Europe becomes a harder working, colder version of the Third World, it is not good for either Central Europe or Russia. Central Europe due to its size and proximity would eventually follow the West. An isolated Russia is a vulnerable Russia. As many have pointed out, during times of isolation something in the Russian psyche kicks in and starts the mad yearning for the 'West', to be like 'Paris', to sell it all for a nice smile. It would happen again. And the fact that by then Paris might as well be an Oudagoudou with Metro (decrepit anyway), will not stop the Russian yearning - it is in the soul.

    We would all be better off if rationality would prevail and people would go back to mature behaviour and some sense of normalcy. On all sides.

    If Europe indeed turns into the Zoo ran by monkeys it will not be able to afford any sort of modem military thus potentially becoming easy picking for Russia if she is provoked and in this case she will most certainly will be. I believe europe is too valuable real estate to Leave hér to savages. In this case Reconquista comes to mind. And Russia might finally resolve the issue you described. Russian mood will certainly be different in the future from now. Looks like destiny. After so many visits by partners …

    Read More
    • Replies: @Beckow
    I think a lesson from history is that it is a self-defeating madness to 'conquer' and occupy any Zoo run by recently arrived simians, or a poor shit-hole of any kind. It is stupid. Expanding into a gutter, makes your country into a gutter, your own it.

    Reconquista had inquisition and slightly more permissive 'population' policies. That is not available today. If Western Europe goes down over the next 25-50 years into Third World squalor, nobody will come to save them. My concern is that before they slide down the garbage shoot into the Third-World multicultural nirvana they will manage to spread it into Central-Eastern Europe. They are certainly trying. And if that happens it is only a question of time before an isolated Russia - with its own internal issues - follows the pattern.

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  56. Che Guava says:

    Great article Andrei.

    I have two poimts to add.

    Although we are never to hearimg of it, a Jew in the USA, name of Jacob Schiff, was placimg the govt. of Japan in debt to himself to win the Russo-Japan war of 1904 to 05.

    Russian PoWs were also subjected to Jewish Conmunist brainwashing at that thme.

    Japanese navy, best in east, also pathetic ship designs are dictated by the occupying power,

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    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    Japanese navy, best in east, also pathetic ship designs are dictated by the occupying power,
     
    Japanese "version" of US DDG Arleigh Burke-class "Congo" and Atago-class, its Japanese "pumped" version of SPY-1 radar and CICS are considered superior to US Navy's. Japanese submarine force is world-class in technology and personnel. Simply, world-class--despite being non-nuclear. It is a complex picture.
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  57. Mitleser says:
    @anony-mouse
    In the 19th century the Brits wanted to create a Cape-to-Cairo railway, the Germans a Berlin-to-Baghdad railway. Both of these far smaller and simpler projects failed.

    We'll see.

    The Eurasian railway is already reality.
    Last year, a train moved from China to London and back.

    Read More
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  58. bluedog says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    You underestimate the Chinese submarine fleet and technologies.
     
    Sorry, but I don't.

    They already have more than 40 modern diesel submarines (Improved Kilos, Type 039s and Type 041s), which already makes it by far the largest modern SSK fleet in the world.
     
    SSKs, even with AIP ARE not designed for a sustained blue water operations on SLOCs. To "win" Indian Ocean, PLAN will need a very large fleet of state-of-the-art SS(G)Ns. China simply doesn't have such fleet. You agree with me below:

    Yeah, sure, you have a point when it comes to far away SLOCs, which require nuclear subs… I mean you’re sort of correct, until 2025-30. But there are some major issues with the narrative:
     
    Creating advanced nuclear power sub, especially admitted by peers as a world-class weapon system, is enormously difficult and is not only based on getting some acceptable noise levels, however important this task is. Obviously PLAN was improving but most of its statements about its SSNs are, at best exaggerations, at worst suffer from detachment from reality. China is nowhere near still with such designs and, actual, subs as Project 885 or Virginia-class.

    It is the same thing with aircraft engines: China will inevitably be competitive in both by the mid 20s. Considering your overall expertise on the Chinese military, you probably haven’t heard, but China has recently tested J-20s with Chinese engines (not to mention, again, that there are hundreds of modern Chinese Flanker variants operational with… CHINESE engines). Yeah, they really are sooo far behind…
     
    They are behind, nor J-20 is realistically a 5th generation fighter. Nor overblown in mostly US media DF-21 is real carrier-killer, nor many other things that China proclaims to be ready any minute now and be competitive.

    Russia will have a similar number of SSN (and SSGNs) in 2030… I mean how many Yashens and upcoming Huskys do you think they will have by that time? Maybe they are veeery stronk and they’ll have 200? But no seriously… maybe 12? Plus the older, albeit upgraded, boats. (Which is of course still a good number, especially when you include the 20 or so SSKs, but Russia AHEAD of China in 2030? No, just no. That’s just not how any of this works.).
     
    Russia's naval interests and necessities and Chinese ones are really quite different--Russia HAS an option of NOT fighting on SLOCs and having both strategic containment and, if necessary, power projection capabilities quite easily addressed. China doesn't have such an option unless she goes Full Monty to NSR, under the cover of Russia's A2/AD bubble there. Per Chinese Aircraft Carriers--get acquainted with this, could be a good supplement in understanding that just the technology, while important, has much more to it than a hardware, which still must be top-notch.

    http://www.airuniversity.af.mil/Portals/10/CASI/documents/Research/PLAN_Aviation/PLA%20Naval%20Aviation%20Web%20PDF%20v2.pdf?ver=2017-12-20-093117-563

    Also, when it comes to Chinese ASW: probably 20-30 of those frigates will be a new class that heavily focuses on ASW and China will also have atleast 4 helicopter carriers…
     
    Get to Google maps and take a look at 2000 miles which separate Guam from the major Choke Point and main deployment route into the Indian Ocean from China and ask yourself a question on how many P-8 Poseidons and how many Virginias will be hanging in and around this Gap waiting for PLAN to deploy? Do not forget that the US Navy can deploy (if push comes to shove) minimum of 2 CBGs, whose number of the attack fighter aircraft will surpass, and by far, all number of theoretical aircraft on all 4 Chinese carriers. So, there is a colossal number of technological, operational and strategic questions China needs to answer before we all may say that, sure--here is the preeminent military power of our time. China is not there yet, not by a long shot.

    3. Lately there have been many reports about China’s recent and upcoming breakthroughs in nuclear sub tech and the construction of new submarine factory/factories
     
    When it happens, will talk. I am not saying that it will not--but I have some vague (wink, wink) ideas on what it takes to develop and build a state-of-the-art Navy (and Armed Forces), so I will reserve my opinions for now.

    One thing you should bear in mind is that we have always underestimated China and what they could do,where we stated that it would take them 10 years to go from point A to point B it took them 5 and that’s always the way its been…

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    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    One thing you should bear in mind is that we have always underestimated China and what they could do,where we stated that it would take them 10 years to go from point A to point B it took them 5 and that’s always the way its been…
     
    Manufacturing iPhones and developing indigenous space program, world-class aerospace or naval engineering school are two very different "point A to point B" journeys. Dramatically different.
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  59. peterAUS says:

    Good article.
    Some good comments too.

    Speaking of confrontation, a good point from one of comments about “air power” which was, partially, missing from the article. Partially, because it is, obviously, assumed that any confrontation at sea/on land would include that element.

    What is missing, though, is that element of internal unrest here.

    I don’t believe in intentional direct confrontation between the main players as in the article and most of comments. It is possible, of course but, should it happen it would go fast into nuclear and then…..

    What is much more likely is US/West/whatever simply initiating some sort of internal unrest in either Russia (more likely) or China.

    Any of those would work just fine.
    If that unrest can be created somewhere along those trade routes mentioned in the article, even better.

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  60. bluedog says:
    @anonymous
    In this discussion as well as in countless others the common thread is a tone of anti-Americanism. This is an unfortunate turn of events but is self-inflicted. At the end of the last war America had a lot of political capital, people looked to it as an example, the economy was providing a good life to many people and slogans of freedom and democracy fell on receptive ears everywhere. This has been squandered by the greed and shortsightedness of the 'elites', such as they are, as the US has become more openly predatory as it's capabilities to do so have grown. I don't even know if the US can continue to be considered to be 'west' as it seems to have morphed into some mongrelized hybrid offshoot. There's no real culture you know, just some commercial junk-mind-rot. Let me point out that most of the anti-American comments here and elsewhere come from Americans themselves, can you believe it?

    Yes I can for many if not most Americans are sick of what we have become,the endless wars the endless greed the endless killing, while America sinks ever deeper into the cesspool it created…

    Read More
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  61. Brilliant explanation of the Geopolcies right now.

    OBOR is China’s FU to the US, in the sense that is almost impossible to block. Rusia’s role in this is evident. EU has , or is about, to sign a treaty with China and Japan too. EU sees the US as spent, not militarily, but commercially, the market for high tech EU produce in China is huge and growing. And let us not forget That there several other nations in OBOR, which gladly would by EU produce, because it is high quality. OBOR is a typical chinese brainchild, very long term, involving many and not exploiting any but trading. The US is like a sullen child, but it can only blame itself, it allowed shamelessly everything offshored and is now harvesting the fruits of mega-money. As a socialist, the EU was hard to swallow in the start, but it is obvious that Europe would have been robbed blind by the US if we coud not stand together in the EU. Surprisingly few people dont understand this.

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    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    Yeah, Europeans are standing together alright -- in favor of sharia and subjugation by non-European Muslims. Good thing they stood together and didn't get ripped off by the US.

    Agree with the rest of your observatons, though ;)
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  62. @anony-mouse
    In the 19th century the Brits wanted to create a Cape-to-Cairo railway, the Germans a Berlin-to-Baghdad railway. Both of these far smaller and simpler projects failed.

    We'll see.

    Britain engineered WWI because of the Berlin Basra railway.
    Edward Mead Earle, Ph.D., ‘Turkey, The Great Powers and The Bagdad Railway, A study in Imperialism’, 1923, 1924, New York
    The line was to go through Mosul, with a German concession of ten miles at both sides, through the richest then known oilfields.
    Lawrence (of Arabia), archeologist, spied on the progress.
    The connection to Basra was also feared, the British might lose their monopoly on exporting goods to India, smuggling from Basra to India could not be prevented.
    When I visited Aleppo in 1986 the railway station still existed, until the Syrian war tourist trains travelled from Istanbul to Aleppo, or Damascus, forgot which.
    In the thirties the British again feared Germany because of economic expansion to the south east:
    Lawrence R. Pratt, ‘East of Malta, West of Suez’, London, 1975

    Read More
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  63. @Bardon Kaldian

    Russia might see itself as a part of Europe, but most Western Europeans have never seen it that way. So it is like knocking on a door that will never open.
     
    I haven't read the post (later, it's long). But, your comment is only partially right. True, most Western Europeans had not, until the 19th C, considered Russia to be a part of the "West"- but the majority of thinking women & men do consider it now (and have been in past 100-150 years).

    What is West?

    It is a combination of three elements:

    1. Greco-Roman heritage
    2. Christianity
    3. rational & scientific spirit going back to 18th C Enlightenment

    If we include the Renaissance as the prerequisite, Russia would not pass the check. But nor would Norway, Sweden or Greece. Not persuasive, no ...

    If it is because of a regional variant of Christianity, then we should also dispense with Greece, something hardly imaginable- they're the cradle of the Western civilization.

    Looking at Russian history, identity & culture in past, say, 3 centuries, it definitely belongs to Europe. Moreover, there is not a single specifically Russian cultural trait that is alien or incomprehensible to the "core" West of France, Italy or Switzerland.

    Unlike Arab world, east Asia, India,...among civilizations. And I even won't mention shitholes.

    Petersburg was full of western merchants in 1917, when Lenin grabbed power.
    They were expelled.
    How long Dutch merchants lived there, I suppose in any case from the 17th century.

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  64. @Che Guava
    Great article Andrei.

    I have two poimts to add.

    Although we are never to hearimg of it, a Jew in the USA, name of Jacob Schiff, was placimg the govt. of Japan in debt to himself to win the Russo-Japan war of 1904 to 05.

    Russian PoWs were also subjected to Jewish Conmunist brainwashing at that thme.

    Japanese navy, best in east, also pathetic ship designs are dictated by the occupying power,

    Japanese navy, best in east, also pathetic ship designs are dictated by the occupying power,

    Japanese “version” of US DDG Arleigh Burke-class “Congo” and Atago-class, its Japanese “pumped” version of SPY-1 radar and CICS are considered superior to US Navy’s. Japanese submarine force is world-class in technology and personnel. Simply, world-class–despite being non-nuclear. It is a complex picture.

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    • Replies: @Che Guava
    Thanks for reply. Your analysis of ships and boats seems accurate, as for the ships, when I see them, clear reliance on US designs is annoying to me.
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  65. @Beckow

    ... so much contempt to the contemporary West from majority of Russian people
     
    This is matched by an outright hatred and fear by large majorities in the West. What we have is polarisation and escalation. That is a dead end and only benefits third parties.

    When a sensible country like Netherlands has 90% people say that they fear and dislike Russia, there is a problem. We can blame it on the media campaigns, politicians, or even lost Malaysian airlines, it still doesn't account for the emotion. The same is true about other previously more normal countries like Canada, Sweden or Finland. Something is going on, and on both sides. In Central Europe the numbers are much better, but the polarisation is palpable - the NGO Atlanticist types in big cities openly hate anything Russian, most nationalist leaning groups (not all) take a militant pro-Putin positions. There is no discussion, just name-calling.

    It is heading towards a confrontation. The first step of dehumanising and demonising the 'enemy' has been done - in the West almost totally, I don't know about Russia. Next crisis could be fatal for all of us. The constraints (definitely in the West) are off. They have talked for so long about the dreadful Russian enemy, they might talk themselves into another war.

    ” When a sensible country like Netherlands has 90% people say that they fear and dislike Russia, there is a problem. ”
    Who says so ?
    Our politicians and media ?
    We voted by referendum against the EU association treaty with Ukraine, largely because of the military cooperation paragraph, we do not want war with Russia.
    For me Putin is the man who saves the world from USA dominance.
    What I fear is NATO, and USA generals who talk about tactical hydrogen bombs.

    Read More
    • Agree: RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @Beckow

    Who says so ?

     

    Based on the last research survey Netherlands has the lowest Russia Approval rating. It is 85% negative, 4% neutral, 11% positive. Beats even fanatically anti-Russia Denmark and Sweden, at 83 and 81 negative views.

    https://s17.postimg.org/r56ivxjn3/russia_approval.png

    I was surprised. A few years ago I did some graduate studies in Rotterdam and the place was sanity central. People were generally skeptical. I agree that the Ukraine-EU referendum showed Dutch as thoughtful people.

    In all EU countries the media is in a silly Russia is a threat and 'everything Russian is evil' phase. Nobody does it better than UK or Germany. And yet, both British and Germans are slightly less anti-Russia than the small northern countries. What is going on?

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  66. Beckow says:
    @Sergey Krieger
    If Europe indeed turns into the Zoo ran by monkeys it will not be able to afford any sort of modem military thus potentially becoming easy picking for Russia if she is provoked and in this case she will most certainly will be. I believe europe is too valuable real estate to Leave hér to savages. In this case Reconquista comes to mind. And Russia might finally resolve the issue you described. Russian mood will certainly be different in the future from now. Looks like destiny. After so many visits by partners ...

    I think a lesson from history is that it is a self-defeating madness to ‘conquer’ and occupy any Zoo run by recently arrived simians, or a poor shit-hole of any kind. It is stupid. Expanding into a gutter, makes your country into a gutter, your own it.

    Reconquista had inquisition and slightly more permissive ‘population’ policies. That is not available today. If Western Europe goes down over the next 25-50 years into Third World squalor, nobody will come to save them. My concern is that before they slide down the garbage shoot into the Third-World multicultural nirvana they will manage to spread it into Central-Eastern Europe. They are certainly trying. And if that happens it is only a question of time before an isolated Russia – with its own internal issues – follows the pattern.

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    • Replies: @Sergey Krieger
    I do not think Europe will go that far. But I did mention Reconquesta. Invaders were evicted then. I do not see why it is not possible in the future.
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  67. windwaves says:
    @Z-man
    Yes too long of an article.
    Bottom line, the NEOCON/Globalist Cabal has pushed Russia away from the West and into the arms of China, more so than would be naturally done. It has pulled Russia and America farther apart which is sad because they are natural allies. Fortunately Germany, France and other European countries will buck this Anglo/Zionist plan by needing and wanting to deal with Russia.
    These nefarious deeds are mostly due to the hatred the ZioJudeo controlled Anglosphere has for Putin for reinforcing Russia's Christian heritage.
    Putin Da!

    Fully agree that this is a main factor in this type of analysis.

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  68. AaronB says:

    A very subtle and intelligent analysis. I’m not particularly interested in the topic but I enjoyed reading the ins and outs of a well thought out strategic analysis, when well done.

    Russia functions to a certain extent as western Europe’s “shadow side” – the side that got gradually swallowed up by modernization.

    Russia retains a significant connection to pre-modern European cultural traditions, which give it a somewhat “Asiatic character”, as the pre-modern West was essentially similar to Asia, a fact often obscured by attempts to locate the roots of Western modernity in a distinctive pre-modern Western sensibility, when what made the modern West distinctive is largely its rejection of earlier sensibilities.

    So western Europeans are necessarily ambivalent about Russia, attracted and repelled, even as they are ambivalent about their own modern identities.

    For Russia to stress its modern European side may reassure Europeans while simultaneously providing them with an opportunity to reconnect with their repressed “shadow side” and view it more favourably.

    That’s good fantasy, at any rate.

    In reality….

    These four players must sort their problems out in a peaceful and civilized way—there is no other viable option. The only alternative is a bloody destructive triumph of Navalism.

    That’s precisely why we’re probably headed to some kind of war…

    Humans being what they are.

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    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    You might like this, in your discussions about spirituality, etc.

    https://qz.com/1172433/why-is-china-creating-utopian-art-cities-in-its-former-wastelands/
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  69. anon • Disclaimer says:

    A very long rambling article for the author to basically say the following:

    1. Russia is a white country
    2. Europe is white, China is not
    3. White countries need to stick together

    Got it!

    Too bad the enlightened Western Europeans have never considered Russia part of Europe, and no longer even give a shit about being white.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Its largely for a Western audience. Within Russia, the opinions vary greatly.

    The commentary and posting on Unz is largely a distortion from the mainstream as written by expats, like Moscow Times is within Russia is a distortion as written by expats on Russia. The last AP opinion poll found that the future elite of young, high income and high educated Russians tended to be highly bullish on China with almost half expressing that "great efforts should be made to increase relationships with China."
    , @Anon
    And Andrei hint its a warning shot by V. Putin to China: that Russian is White, European, Christian. China is not, don't dream of becoming another US.
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  70. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon
    "...Russia, the US, China and Europe. These four players must sort their problems out in a peaceful and civilized way—there is no other viable option."

    All four are controlled to an unimaginable degree (MSM never reports it) by banksters, Ziomedia, neocons et al, who are willing to trash the world to rule as masters what's left of it. They make money by war, not peace. This world problem must be addressed, just as drug kingpins need taken down to solve that problem. This series should be required viewing in all universities and by all governments, but may not even be online much longer. Please see Part 1 (the alternate link just above the video is best): https://europathelastbattle.wordpress.com/watch/

    I just checked the alternate link I recommended above Part 1 of the ‘Europa – The Last Battle’ series and find it’s been compromised. Here is a link to Part 1 that’s still working – you have to choose to see it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcH00ZC3Df0

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  71. @bluedog
    One thing you should bear in mind is that we have always underestimated China and what they could do,where we stated that it would take them 10 years to go from point A to point B it took them 5 and that's always the way its been...

    One thing you should bear in mind is that we have always underestimated China and what they could do,where we stated that it would take them 10 years to go from point A to point B it took them 5 and that’s always the way its been…

    Manufacturing iPhones and developing indigenous space program, world-class aerospace or naval engineering school are two very different “point A to point B” journeys. Dramatically different.

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    • Replies: @bluedog
    That as with all things take time but they have been remarkable in what they have accomplished up to this point, and the short span of time that required them to do so.Give them another 20 years and then judge, as they become the number one economic power in the world...
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  72. @Beckow
    I think a lesson from history is that it is a self-defeating madness to 'conquer' and occupy any Zoo run by recently arrived simians, or a poor shit-hole of any kind. It is stupid. Expanding into a gutter, makes your country into a gutter, your own it.

    Reconquista had inquisition and slightly more permissive 'population' policies. That is not available today. If Western Europe goes down over the next 25-50 years into Third World squalor, nobody will come to save them. My concern is that before they slide down the garbage shoot into the Third-World multicultural nirvana they will manage to spread it into Central-Eastern Europe. They are certainly trying. And if that happens it is only a question of time before an isolated Russia - with its own internal issues - follows the pattern.

    I do not think Europe will go that far. But I did mention Reconquesta. Invaders were evicted then. I do not see why it is not possible in the future.

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  73. Beckow says:
    @jilles dykstra
    " When a sensible country like Netherlands has 90% people say that they fear and dislike Russia, there is a problem. "
    Who says so ?
    Our politicians and media ?
    We voted by referendum against the EU association treaty with Ukraine, largely because of the military cooperation paragraph, we do not want war with Russia.
    For me Putin is the man who saves the world from USA dominance.
    What I fear is NATO, and USA generals who talk about tactical hydrogen bombs.

    Who says so ?

    Based on the last research survey Netherlands has the lowest Russia Approval rating. It is 85% negative, 4% neutral, 11% positive. Beats even fanatically anti-Russia Denmark and Sweden, at 83 and 81 negative views.

    I was surprised. A few years ago I did some graduate studies in Rotterdam and the place was sanity central. People were generally skeptical. I agree that the Ukraine-EU referendum showed Dutch as thoughtful people.

    In all EU countries the media is in a silly Russia is a threat and ‘everything Russian is evil’ phase. Nobody does it better than UK or Germany. And yet, both British and Germans are slightly less anti-Russia than the small northern countries. What is going on?

    Read More
    • Replies: @polskijoe
    Sorry more multiple posts (I hope they get through).

    Wow Poland is at 27. There is hope lol!

    I dont believe the marks from Germany and France.
    I saw another poll and many Germans want to improve relations with Russia.
    Was surprised by Croatia.
    , @V
    In all EU countries the media is in a silly Russia is a threat and ‘everything Russian is evil’ phase.

    Everyone's being conditioned. And of course in the US the hysteria regarding Russia has been going on much longer than in Europe.
    , @jilles dykstra
    No idea where these figures come from.
    Of course, the contiuing anti Russia propaganda has effect, such as accusing Putin of the MH370 disaster, without ever proving anything.
    Many here no longer believe anything our politicians say.
    Nevertheless, I think the Ukraine referendum is more dependable than any poll.
    I never meet anyone who sees Russia as a military threat.
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  74. Joe Wong says:
    @Anonymous
    I'm not sure what the authors point is, in this incredibly long and rambling post. Maybe it is just Russia Stronk!

    But it seems like the OP is just reiterating what a lot of people already know. Russia is a legitimate super power on its own. It does not need China to exist, but it needs China to defend itself from the West just as China needs Russia to defend itself against the West too. Only people who spend too much time on the internet care about who is considered a junior member or not when it comes to survival. Even Iran, who is not near as powerful as either Russia or China, is not a junior member because if any of the 3 nations fall the surviving 2 nations will be in big trouble.

    I don't think China sees Europe as THE prize, as Europe also has economic issues as well. China and Russia see an integrated Eurasia as THE prize, as this will ensue a multi-polar world which benefits both nations.

    No doubt prying Europe and especially Germany away from the West is a big goal for both nations, but the real goal is controlling the "Heartland" a la Mackinder. As Mackinder noted, he who controls the "Heartland" controls the world.

    If the West loses control of the "Heartland", controlling the sea lanes will have little value, as it would not be able to stymie trade to Russia or China, just to make it more expensive. So the OBOR is not meant to be a replacement against ocean trade, just insurance that if one artery is cut, another remains open.

    If China-Russia, or sorry Russia - China, is successful in making this connection; the West has no way of controlling either nation.

    Also, lol at quoting Macron with his Grannie wife. He is a total stooge for the West. So of course he is not going to like OBOR.

    Neither do I sure what the author’s point is. It seems the author is making a lot self assertions to assure the American still matters in the world events. On the other hand, if the American is contented with its world number one class navy title and keep their navy away from causing mayhem to the global SLOCs i.e. not driving their warships into commercial ships like drunken sailors so often, the world should caste a brass hat, a big trophy, some kind of fancy medals or certificates to pacify the American Navy. Perhaps even pay the American Navy stay at home moored at piers.

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    • Replies: @Anon
    When come to China, its always 3rd developing world to associate with, all their technologies are not worthy 3rd class just putting some IC together, US and Japan are world class superior. But come to Russia, then its has all the economy, technologies and superior military might that US and Japan should cry for mommy.

    So the only real SUPER Power today is RUSSIA high on vodka. But irony, its leaders are always kowtow to seek recognition from its dearest Western partners that Russians do belong to their White Christian European class, though they don't give a damn but more military aggression and sanctions.

    It reminds me of some type of people, they look down on those who treated them well, but so keen to close up wagging tails licking boots with those who are capable to keep smashing their face.
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  75. Pisa2016 says:

    Oh boy, what a dumb post.

    Any idiot knows that land based platforms far out range sea platforms

    Any battle between modern countries would just be land based sea denial battles.

    The US or whatever navy ventures past Hawaii and their entire fleet gets annihilated by carrier killers and mach 7-10 ramjets, that can skim, move erratically, or strike from high altitude

    Navy’s are by and far obsolete

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    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    Any idiot knows that land based platforms far out range sea platforms
     
    I think you are right, only idiots know that, educated people know that actual weapons of war, that is by implications non-nuclear (plus nuclear tipped), are regulated by still alive, however barely, INF Treaty which specifically forbids land-based weapons (platforms, in your lingo?) thus making range between 500 to 5,500 kilometers verboten for land-based "platforms". Yet, currently, the most long range both anti-shipping and TLAM weapons which are not only actual weapons but are constantly used in the conflicts are precisely NON-land based and which are most long range are carried by ships, submarines and aircraft. Is that what you meant to say? ;-)) Just FYI, the range of 3M14 is officially 2500 kilometers, of X-101 5,500 kilometers. Yes, I also never heard of any conventional war being fought with strategic ballistic missiles.

    Navy’s are by and far obsolete
     
    LOL, sure and the cars will become obsolete and go out of business any minute now. Let me show you something:

    https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-n9gdpi6S2fY/WOlUqwPrLEI/AAAAAAAACkg/vklJdrwf7SMQ1gy24Sx7IsI_Wg7oFmkagCLcB/s1600/Borei%2BClass%2BSubmarine.jpg

    This is "obsolete" SSBN of Project 955, which is in the "obsolete" Russian Navy and it is one of the major factors which prevents this current world from going completely mad--it is called MAD.

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  76. Beckow says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Russia might see itself as a part of Europe, but most Western Europeans have never seen it that way. So it is like knocking on a door that will never open.
     
    I haven't read the post (later, it's long). But, your comment is only partially right. True, most Western Europeans had not, until the 19th C, considered Russia to be a part of the "West"- but the majority of thinking women & men do consider it now (and have been in past 100-150 years).

    What is West?

    It is a combination of three elements:

    1. Greco-Roman heritage
    2. Christianity
    3. rational & scientific spirit going back to 18th C Enlightenment

    If we include the Renaissance as the prerequisite, Russia would not pass the check. But nor would Norway, Sweden or Greece. Not persuasive, no ...

    If it is because of a regional variant of Christianity, then we should also dispense with Greece, something hardly imaginable- they're the cradle of the Western civilization.

    Looking at Russian history, identity & culture in past, say, 3 centuries, it definitely belongs to Europe. Moreover, there is not a single specifically Russian cultural trait that is alien or incomprehensible to the "core" West of France, Italy or Switzerland.

    Unlike Arab world, east Asia, India,...among civilizations. And I even won't mention shitholes.

    Yes, you are right and still most people in Western Europe (and some in the east, all the way to Ukraine) do not consider Russia to be a part of Europe. It is an emotional position. Occasionally they will drop it when convenient, but the dislike of Russia eventually prevails.

    Use some basic criteria for inclusion:
    - Is Russia treated by the same standards as Europe treats itself? Obviously not, the rules are applied completely differently from Kosovo-Crimea, ethnic minority questions, to applying due process in institutions (last example being the Olympic doping).

    What is West?

    It is a combination of three elements:

    1. Greco-Roman heritage
    2. Christianity
    3. rational & scientific spirit going back to 18th C Enlightenment

    I would add that Europe (what you refer to as ‘West’) is also infrastructure, engineering competence, society norms, etc…

    Greece-Rome is too ancient, Christianity has been almost explicitly abandoned in the West, and rational spirit requires consistent critical thinking – that is in short supply in official Europe these days.

    Russia will be accepted by Western Europeans as ‘Europe’ when nobody will any longer want to be thought off as ‘Western Europe’. The multi-culti nirvana with dirty streets, gangs and PC authoritarianism will then say to Russia: ‘come in, you are one of us, can we move to your territory?, we have messed up our homes, please save us from our past indulgence’.

    Read More
    • Agree: Kiza
    • Replies: @V
    [It's extremely bad practice to essentially repeat the same very long comment on multiple different threads. If you continue behaving in this manner, all your future comments may get trashed.]

    It is heading towards a confrontation. The first step of dehumanising and demonising the ‘enemy’ has been done – in the West almost totally, I don’t know about Russia.

    The meme of a future war between the US and Russia has been out there for a long time, since at least 1853. The below are excerpts from an at the time widely reviewed geo-political book published in the United States called The New Rome; or, the United States of the World. The gist of the book is that a future newly created US/UK bloc is to first conquer the center of power upon continental Europe, Germany, and then immediately after that proceed to go after Russia. It's all to conclude with the US having a global empire, the 'New Rome'. What I wonder though is if in some Russian library somewhere there is a long forgotten dust covered book from the 19th century that says almost exactly the same thing, but with Russia being the one that creates a global empire for itself.
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  77. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @anon
    A very long rambling article for the author to basically say the following:

    1. Russia is a white country
    2. Europe is white, China is not
    3. White countries need to stick together

    Got it!

    Too bad the enlightened Western Europeans have never considered Russia part of Europe, and no longer even give a shit about being white.

    Its largely for a Western audience. Within Russia, the opinions vary greatly.

    The commentary and posting on Unz is largely a distortion from the mainstream as written by expats, like Moscow Times is within Russia is a distortion as written by expats on Russia. The last AP opinion poll found that the future elite of young, high income and high educated Russians tended to be highly bullish on China with almost half expressing that “great efforts should be made to increase relationships with China.”

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  78. With Europe slowly coming to some understanding of the dead end of its cultural and economic policies

    Unfortunately it’s far from clear imo that this is indeed happening. But very interesting piece, thanks.

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    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    Unfortunately it’s far from clear imo that this is indeed happening.
     
    I'll give you one example: IIRC in 2007 Bundestag passed the law which forbade any German industrial plant which is in any way connected to Germany's military-industrial complex (and that is rather a large number) to have less than 51% of German capital. No matter how one looks at it, but that pretty much covers most of metallurgy, machine-building complex and ship-building. Smart move. Now, if a treasonous force such as Greens could be thrown out of Germany's political life... but...
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  79. @Pisa2016
    Oh boy, what a dumb post.

    Any idiot knows that land based platforms far out range sea platforms

    Any battle between modern countries would just be land based sea denial battles.

    The US or whatever navy ventures past Hawaii and their entire fleet gets annihilated by carrier killers and mach 7-10 ramjets, that can skim, move erratically, or strike from high altitude

    Navy's are by and far obsolete

    Any idiot knows that land based platforms far out range sea platforms

    I think you are right, only idiots know that, educated people know that actual weapons of war, that is by implications non-nuclear (plus nuclear tipped), are regulated by still alive, however barely, INF Treaty which specifically forbids land-based weapons (platforms, in your lingo?) thus making range between 500 to 5,500 kilometers verboten for land-based “platforms”. Yet, currently, the most long range both anti-shipping and TLAM weapons which are not only actual weapons but are constantly used in the conflicts are precisely NON-land based and which are most long range are carried by ships, submarines and aircraft. Is that what you meant to say? ;-)) Just FYI, the range of 3M14 is officially 2500 kilometers, of X-101 5,500 kilometers. Yes, I also never heard of any conventional war being fought with strategic ballistic missiles.

    Navy’s are by and far obsolete

    LOL, sure and the cars will become obsolete and go out of business any minute now. Let me show you something:

    This is “obsolete” SSBN of Project 955, which is in the “obsolete” Russian Navy and it is one of the major factors which prevents this current world from going completely mad–it is called MAD.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Pisa2016
    Your entire reply is meaningless rhetoric, Inf is irrelevant because Russia has broken the treaty, and it never applied to countries other than the us and Russia

    You have never addressed how surface ships are supposed to deal with land launched intermediate range ramjets or ICBMs

    Numerous military strategists have already said that a naval war between the us and china would lead to sea denial for both sides google "A2/AD"

    Likewise nuclear war mentions are meaningless rhetoric.

    Any US ship would be blown away before they can get in range to strike china land targets.
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  80. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Beckow
    Russia might see itself as a part of Europe, but most Western Europeans have never seen it that way. So it is like knocking on a door that will never open. West has very publicly given up on its 'white, Christian, European civilisation' - we are at a tipping point when pure demographics will determine this. What common 'culture' can there be with massive population replacement? Maybe a new culture, but not what one would call 'white, Christian, European'.

    An alternative is to save what can be saved, and find allies who will help. China, Central Asia and parts of Middle East can do that. Can multi-cultural and rapidly devolving Germany or France? By 2050, most of Western Europe will be a different culture than today. Will the 'high-tech machine sector' will still be viable?

    Central Eastern Europe is caught in the middle - as they have been throughout most of history. They cannot on their own keep Europe European. Eventually for a number of reasons (including their own confused identities) they would succumb to what is ailing the West. The fish rots from its head, and if the rot is to stop, it would have to be done there. Looking at London, Paris, Berlin leaders and their hapless populations, I don't see any will to do it. End of liners display very specific characteristics: moronic relativism, hedonism, absurdity, inability to understand that some rules of the game - or constraints - cannot be changed, and, of course, no children. Looking at Western Europe that behaviour is dominant, so what there to save?

    End of liners display very specific characteristics: moronic relativism, hedonism, absurdity, inability to understand that some rules of the game – or constraints – cannot be changed, and, of course, no children. Looking at Western Europe that behaviour is dominant, so what there to save?

    What is there to save?

    A civilization. The greatest civilization the world has yet seen.

    How to save it?

    1) Stop talking and acting like a wimp.

    2) Boot the globalist treasonite leadership.

    3) Boot the “refugees” and criminal immigrants, incentivize repatriation of legal and law-abiding immigrants, with large cash grants, certain rights, e.g., to Euro passports but without residency rights.

    4) Reimpose the traditional values through education, law reform, and legal restrictions on recruitment by non-Christian religious groups.

    5) Criminalize sex “education”.

    6) Outlaw abortion.

    7) Restore meritocracy in education, slash university entrance to 10% or less of school graduates, terminate the PC indoctrination courses in the university, restore academic freedom in the university, slash academic salaries, eliminate corporate control of academic research.

    8) Restore freedom of speach:

    Break up the media monopolies. Institute a one person/company one media outlet policy.

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    • Replies: @German_reader
    Yes, but how do you even get close to implementing such a programme? And the problem is, given current trends time is running out fast, a long march through the institutions bearing fruit only 20-30 years in the future will be too late, and it looks like most Western Europeans still don't get the gravity of the situation and are unwilling to do anything about it. Even voting for a patriotic party in the secrecy of a voting booth is apparently too much for them.
    , @Kiza
    I know that you had noble intentions yet I had great chuckles reading your plan point by point. But would it not have been easier to say - we need to turn all our policies by 180 degrees - that is turn them into the opposite direction? Then the next naive question is how did we end up with all our policies in the wrong direction? Are there any vested interests which drove them to be such? How strong are those interests?

    Simply, it would be so easy to make the World right if the vested interests could be overcome.

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  81. Pisa2016 says:
    @Ilyana_Rozumova
    Transport by ships is more economical for large quantities of merchandise.
    Transport by train is more efficient for smaller quantities of merchandise.
    It is quicker and more efficient. This fact is particularly significant for merchandise like agricultural products with limited shelf life.
    That is very important in this case. Quick delivery from source to market plays very important role.

    Completely untrue, since most cities don’t have coastal access, so they would have to truck -> sea ->truck instead of just rail with no transfers between two cities

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    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
    In a way you are correct. But I was speaking conceptually about long distances.
    I did not consider loading and unloading. I also did not talk about influence of type and volume of transferred material. (Sometime I am lazy and I do not like to write a long comment)
    Naturally loading and unloading is a complex process and cost of it is a significant part of cost of the product.

    Bulk materials, liquids. and liquefied, gases will probably stay in Ship transfer domain for a long time.
    But gods, non perishable and perishable will be more economically transferred by trains.

    Long long time ago I was working on feasibility study of containerization of transfer of Goods.
    The idea was that to make a wagons flatbed with attachment fitting the container.
    Also to design trailers for trucks to fit the same container. In this case unloading of wagons would one simple move by train, The cost savings would be immense.

    I am quite confident that this idea will be implemented here on silk road.
    , @Ilyana_Rozumova
    I am quite confident that this idea will be implemented here on Silk Road.
    I am also imagining that each participating country will have its own trains,

    Continuation.

    Two gas turbines drive today’s modern trains. These types are also used for helicopters. I was working at Pratt & Whitney redesigning prototype of this engine for testing purposes. Shaft of this engine is running at 30 thousand RPM. Specifications for bearings of this engine are several pages. Nobody else can make these bearing than SKF.
    Lubrication and cooling apparatus is twice as large as turbine itself.

    Anyway I do envisage that each participating country will have its own trains with its own wagons, and will have its own loading and unloading system.
    But there also must be some standardization also.
    I also presume that will be two line system. I do also presume that this system will have a ground priority. This means that in every existing crossing by road or rail must be on bridge.
    There will be lots of work to be done in Europe.

    BTW. I did walk on stairs of Pisa straight to the top.
    You cant do it anymore
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  82. @CanSpeccy

    End of liners display very specific characteristics: moronic relativism, hedonism, absurdity, inability to understand that some rules of the game – or constraints – cannot be changed, and, of course, no children. Looking at Western Europe that behaviour is dominant, so what there to save?
     
    What is there to save?

    A civilization. The greatest civilization the world has yet seen.

    How to save it?

    1) Stop talking and acting like a wimp.

    2) Boot the globalist treasonite leadership.

    3) Boot the "refugees" and criminal immigrants, incentivize repatriation of legal and law-abiding immigrants, with large cash grants, certain rights, e.g., to Euro passports but without residency rights.

    4) Reimpose the traditional values through education, law reform, and legal restrictions on recruitment by non-Christian religious groups.

    5) Criminalize sex "education".

    6) Outlaw abortion.

    7) Restore meritocracy in education, slash university entrance to 10% or less of school graduates, terminate the PC indoctrination courses in the university, restore academic freedom in the university, slash academic salaries, eliminate corporate control of academic research.

    8) Restore freedom of speach:

    Break up the media monopolies. Institute a one person/company one media outlet policy.

    Yes, but how do you even get close to implementing such a programme? And the problem is, given current trends time is running out fast, a long march through the institutions bearing fruit only 20-30 years in the future will be too late, and it looks like most Western Europeans still don’t get the gravity of the situation and are unwilling to do anything about it. Even voting for a patriotic party in the secrecy of a voting booth is apparently too much for them.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Well, its nice to have an 8-step plan. Of course, then you need to be able to execute it.

    #2 needs one weird trick.
    , @Anonymous
    Your country is the most beloved now, though.

    Germany is now the top-rated global power in the world, with an approval rating of 41%, according to the survey.


    http://edition.cnn.com/2018/01/18/world/us-slips-behind-china-in-gallup-global-leadership-poll-intl/index.html?sr=fbCNN011818us-slips-behind-china-in-gallup-global-leadership-poll-intl0802AMVODtop
    , @CanSpeccy

    but how do you even get close to implementing such a programme?
     
    Someone has to come out of nowhere to take the lead. Whatever Trump achieves or fails to achieve, it is the case that his election campaign demonstrated that the bipartisan globalist elite can be trashed. How? Simply by effectively representing the wishes of the working class, who have long opposed mass immigration and who obviously oppose off-shoring of jobs.

    Such leaders have not emerged in Europe almost certainly because populist movements were run by agents of the pro-globalist establishment. The German Nazi movement, for example, was headed by an MI6 agent (Not because anyone feared a resurgence of Nazism, but to keep the specter of Nazism in the public eye, to be universally loathed and despised and thus to intimidate wannabe populists who would speak for the people). Both in America and Canada there have been Nazi leaders of Jewish origin. The former British National Party leader, Nick Griffin, behaved more like a stooge of the intelligence services than a patriot, throwing the party's chances in the 2010 election by a ridiculous display of stupid and thuggish behavior. Tony Blair was funded largely by Jewish interests. And one could give endless additional examples of elite influence over populist movements.

    Trump beat the establishment by virtue of at least six things (1) his grasp of the American vernacular language that enables him to speak directly with the blue collar class, (2) his exceptional energy, (3) his money, (4) his support for Jewish nationalism which won him Jewish support for his American nationalism, (5) his opportunistic exploitation of Twitter, (6) a weak opponent blinded by a sense of entitlement and demonstrably corrupt.

    In Europe, no identical constellation of factors will come together to upset the establishement. But there are many countries in Europe, each with its own fate yet to be determined. The election in Austria, the imminent fall of Merkel, the Brexit decision, all reveal a crumbling system of control, that will embolden renewed efforts by many people in many different ways to destroy the project for the genocide of the European people, as racial and cultural entities.

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  83. bluedog says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    One thing you should bear in mind is that we have always underestimated China and what they could do,where we stated that it would take them 10 years to go from point A to point B it took them 5 and that’s always the way its been…
     
    Manufacturing iPhones and developing indigenous space program, world-class aerospace or naval engineering school are two very different "point A to point B" journeys. Dramatically different.

    That as with all things take time but they have been remarkable in what they have accomplished up to this point, and the short span of time that required them to do so.Give them another 20 years and then judge, as they become the number one economic power in the world…

    Read More
    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    Give them another 20 years and then judge, as they become the number one economic power in the world…
     
    China IS already the first economy in the world. It has realistically the largest GDP in the world, especially when one talks about industrial capacity. The United States, a huge portion of whose GDP are virtual non-productive financial operations and books' cooking, is not the first economy in the world anymore. So, in this respect China is already number one economic power in the world. There are, however, hugely important economic qualifiers for economy other than just the size of GDP and its structure, however important they are. There is NO economy without geopolitics (or rather what came to be defined as geopolitics today) and vice-versa. It is especially true when one MUST consider global military-political trends. War and economics are inseparable. Well, with the exception of the Wall Street and London "economists".
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  84. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “world-class Russia’s commercial aircraft design and technologies”

    Sounds like hype. What is Russia’s current contribution to the worldwide commercial aircraft industry in terms of market share? Are there any components of a commercial aircraft where Russia has more than a few percentage points of market share?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    Sounds like hype
     
    Nope, sounds like ignorance on your part and a typical CNN-money or Wall Street economic "education".

    https://www.rbth.com/business/2017/08/24/how-boeing-and-airbus-use-russias-expertise-to-develop-their-airplanes_827604

    Here is just a little taste. But ask yourself a question what is common (and crucially a lot) between B-787 and MC-21? And why it is so?

    Now, in terms of modern combat aviation, which is very closely related in many manufacturing and even some design aspects to commercial--yeah, sure try to impress Russia with F-22 or F-35. In conclusion, MC-21 is going into production next year primarily for one reason--to remove obsolete second-hand junk from Boeing and Airbus (737s and 320s) Russia was forced to buy in 1990s-early 2000s. It is primarily domestic aircraft and its international prospects are secondary considerations. Yet, MC-21 is a state-of-the-art aircraft which continues Soviet/Russian very long tradition of some excellent commercial aircraft.
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  85. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @German_reader
    Yes, but how do you even get close to implementing such a programme? And the problem is, given current trends time is running out fast, a long march through the institutions bearing fruit only 20-30 years in the future will be too late, and it looks like most Western Europeans still don't get the gravity of the situation and are unwilling to do anything about it. Even voting for a patriotic party in the secrecy of a voting booth is apparently too much for them.

    Well, its nice to have an 8-step plan. Of course, then you need to be able to execute it.

    #2 needs one weird trick.

    Read More
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  86. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @German_reader
    Yes, but how do you even get close to implementing such a programme? And the problem is, given current trends time is running out fast, a long march through the institutions bearing fruit only 20-30 years in the future will be too late, and it looks like most Western Europeans still don't get the gravity of the situation and are unwilling to do anything about it. Even voting for a patriotic party in the secrecy of a voting booth is apparently too much for them.

    Your country is the most beloved now, though.

    Germany is now the top-rated global power in the world, with an approval rating of 41%, according to the survey.

    http://edition.cnn.com/2018/01/18/world/us-slips-behind-china-in-gallup-global-leadership-poll-intl/index.html?sr=fbCNN011818us-slips-behind-china-in-gallup-global-leadership-poll-intl0802AMVODtop

    Read More
    • LOL: German_reader
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  87. @bluedog
    That as with all things take time but they have been remarkable in what they have accomplished up to this point, and the short span of time that required them to do so.Give them another 20 years and then judge, as they become the number one economic power in the world...

    Give them another 20 years and then judge, as they become the number one economic power in the world…

    China IS already the first economy in the world. It has realistically the largest GDP in the world, especially when one talks about industrial capacity. The United States, a huge portion of whose GDP are virtual non-productive financial operations and books’ cooking, is not the first economy in the world anymore. So, in this respect China is already number one economic power in the world. There are, however, hugely important economic qualifiers for economy other than just the size of GDP and its structure, however important they are. There is NO economy without geopolitics (or rather what came to be defined as geopolitics today) and vice-versa. It is especially true when one MUST consider global military-political trends. War and economics are inseparable. Well, with the exception of the Wall Street and London “economists”.

    Read More
    • Agree: bluedog
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  88. @Anonymous
    "world-class Russia’s commercial aircraft design and technologies"

    Sounds like hype. What is Russia's current contribution to the worldwide commercial aircraft industry in terms of market share? Are there any components of a commercial aircraft where Russia has more than a few percentage points of market share?

    Sounds like hype

    Nope, sounds like ignorance on your part and a typical CNN-money or Wall Street economic “education”.

    https://www.rbth.com/business/2017/08/24/how-boeing-and-airbus-use-russias-expertise-to-develop-their-airplanes_827604

    Here is just a little taste. But ask yourself a question what is common (and crucially a lot) between B-787 and MC-21? And why it is so?

    Now, in terms of modern combat aviation, which is very closely related in many manufacturing and even some design aspects to commercial–yeah, sure try to impress Russia with F-22 or F-35. In conclusion, MC-21 is going into production next year primarily for one reason–to remove obsolete second-hand junk from Boeing and Airbus (737s and 320s) Russia was forced to buy in 1990s-early 2000s. It is primarily domestic aircraft and its international prospects are secondary considerations. Yet, MC-21 is a state-of-the-art aircraft which continues Soviet/Russian very long tradition of some excellent commercial aircraft.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    It seems you have two arguments to support the claim that commercial aviation technology in Russia is world class.

    1) Russian military aviation technology is world class and since there are similarities between military and civilian aviation, Russia's commercial aviation tech should also be world class.

    2) In the near future, Russia will manufacture a narrow body airliner that is world class. Even though it may not sell abroad, it's still world class. Besides, exports were a secondary consideration.

    My response to 1): Just because there are some similarities between a military plane and commercial airliner doesn't lend much credence to your claim about commercial aviation in Russia as cutting edge.

    To 2): Just because you declare repeatedly that the industry is world class doesn't mean it is. A poor showing in export markets for the MC-21 (which you seem to already anticipate) is evidence that Russia's commercial aviation technology is inferior to counterparts.
    , @Pisa2016
    [Quote]https://www.rbth.com/business/2017/08/24/how-boeing-and-airbus-use-russias-expertise-to-develop-their-airplanes_827604

    Here is just a little taste. But ask yourself a question what is common (and crucially a lot) between B-787 and MC-21? And why it is so?[/quote]

    This is meaningless since boeing has research and development centers in china, india etc...

    http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/business/2010-10/21/content_11440455.htm

    Just because boeing has r&d in Russia doesn't mean the mc-21 is as good as a boeing 787

    The mc-21 hasn't even passed FAA certifications and has no overseas orders, they don't even have verified specs
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  89. Mr. Hack says:
    @Beckow
    Europe has never been bound by its geography. Is Novosibirsk more or less European than Brussels or large parts of London and Paris? Visit both and tell us...

    There are 'European' like parts of the rest of the world, in South America, Australia,... do you also object when someone refers to their European character?

    Using your method of analogy and attribution, most of the western world is an American subset, due to the preponderance of cultural symbols and views that emanate from the US. Granted, the closer the metropolitan area is to the traditional Russian ethnic homeland, the greater the process of Russian cultural accretion. But to refer to Vladivostok as a part of Europe (as Martyanov does in his statement) seems to be a stretch, in my way of thinking. Vladivostok’s history and development was influenced as much by an Asian imprint as any other. China, Japan, Korea and even the U.S. have all left indelible imprints on the Primorsky krai, and indigenous Asians such as the Udege and Taz peoples still abound in the related countryside. The area is nominally Russian at best and is truly a cosmopolitan area not to be subject to simple and inaccurate characterizations, certainly not ‘European’.

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  90. Alfred says:

    A fantastic article. Thank you. Will spread the word.

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  91. @Den Lille Abe
    Brilliant explanation of the Geopolcies right now.

    OBOR is China's FU to the US, in the sense that is almost impossible to block. Rusia's role in this is evident. EU has , or is about, to sign a treaty with China and Japan too. EU sees the US as spent, not militarily, but commercially, the market for high tech EU produce in China is huge and growing. And let us not forget That there several other nations in OBOR, which gladly would by EU produce, because it is high quality. OBOR is a typical chinese brainchild, very long term, involving many and not exploiting any but trading. The US is like a sullen child, but it can only blame itself, it allowed shamelessly everything offshored and is now harvesting the fruits of mega-money. As a socialist, the EU was hard to swallow in the start, but it is obvious that Europe would have been robbed blind by the US if we coud not stand together in the EU. Surprisingly few people dont understand this.

    Yeah, Europeans are standing together alright — in favor of sharia and subjugation by non-European Muslims. Good thing they stood together and didn’t get ripped off by the US.

    Agree with the rest of your observatons, though ;)

    Read More
    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    This shows that not all of us approve of Islamisation
    http://nieuws.tpo.nl/2018/01/18/terroristisch-rechts-verzet-laat-onthoofde-pop-moskee-amsterdam-noord/
    A decapitated puppet posed at an Amsterdam mosque
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  92. @AaronB
    A very subtle and intelligent analysis. I'm not particularly interested in the topic but I enjoyed reading the ins and outs of a well thought out strategic analysis, when well done.

    Russia functions to a certain extent as western Europe's "shadow side" - the side that got gradually swallowed up by modernization.

    Russia retains a significant connection to pre-modern European cultural traditions, which give it a somewhat "Asiatic character", as the pre-modern West was essentially similar to Asia, a fact often obscured by attempts to locate the roots of Western modernity in a distinctive pre-modern Western sensibility, when what made the modern West distinctive is largely its rejection of earlier sensibilities.

    So western Europeans are necessarily ambivalent about Russia, attracted and repelled, even as they are ambivalent about their own modern identities.

    For Russia to stress its modern European side may reassure Europeans while simultaneously providing them with an opportunity to reconnect with their repressed "shadow side" and view it more favourably.

    That's good fantasy, at any rate.

    In reality....


    These four players must sort their problems out in a peaceful and civilized way—there is no other viable option. The only alternative is a bloody destructive triumph of Navalism.
     
    That's precisely why we're probably headed to some kind of war...

    Humans being what they are.

    You might like this, in your discussions about spirituality, etc.

    https://qz.com/1172433/why-is-china-creating-utopian-art-cities-in-its-former-wastelands/

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    • Replies: @AaronB
    I love it! Thank you for linking to tbat, Daniel.

    According to the law of dialectic, as China's frenetic Westernization gathers momentum, it must generate these countervailing forces which resist that.

    My cautious hope is that ultimately the good side of China will prevail, as that tradition has such a long history and is so deeply embedded. The current turn to power politics is surely a crisis response and historically conditioned, and as such deserving of sympathy and understanding, if not enthusiasm.

    We shall see - tnanks!
    , @Andrei Martyanov

    You might like this, in your discussions about spirituality, etc.
     
    Very interesting piece. Thank you for making me aware of this trend. Definitely important.
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  93. AaronB says:
    @Daniel Chieh
    You might like this, in your discussions about spirituality, etc.

    https://qz.com/1172433/why-is-china-creating-utopian-art-cities-in-its-former-wastelands/

    I love it! Thank you for linking to tbat, Daniel.

    According to the law of dialectic, as China’s frenetic Westernization gathers momentum, it must generate these countervailing forces which resist that.

    My cautious hope is that ultimately the good side of China will prevail, as that tradition has such a long history and is so deeply embedded. The current turn to power politics is surely a crisis response and historically conditioned, and as such deserving of sympathy and understanding, if not enthusiasm.

    We shall see – tnanks!

    Read More
    • Replies: @utu

    My cautious hope is that ultimately the good side of China will prevail
     
    Chinese might be in long run more cautious than Jews because they have a lot of their own people and they play with them unlike the Jews who use other people as pawns so they are more reckless. However if their influence and power will grow they will develop the sense of impunity and will get arrogant and corrupted. Their moral inhibitions work differently than in the West and they will become superfluous once they get all powerful.

    Why drivers in China intentionally kill the pedestrians they hit
    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2015/09/why_drivers_in_china_intentionally_kill_the_pedestrians_they_hit_china_s.html
     
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  94. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @German_reader
    Yes, but how do you even get close to implementing such a programme? And the problem is, given current trends time is running out fast, a long march through the institutions bearing fruit only 20-30 years in the future will be too late, and it looks like most Western Europeans still don't get the gravity of the situation and are unwilling to do anything about it. Even voting for a patriotic party in the secrecy of a voting booth is apparently too much for them.

    but how do you even get close to implementing such a programme?

    Someone has to come out of nowhere to take the lead. Whatever Trump achieves or fails to achieve, it is the case that his election campaign demonstrated that the bipartisan globalist elite can be trashed. How? Simply by effectively representing the wishes of the working class, who have long opposed mass immigration and who obviously oppose off-shoring of jobs.

    Such leaders have not emerged in Europe almost certainly because populist movements were run by agents of the pro-globalist establishment. The German Nazi movement, for example, was headed by an MI6 agent (Not because anyone feared a resurgence of Nazism, but to keep the specter of Nazism in the public eye, to be universally loathed and despised and thus to intimidate wannabe populists who would speak for the people). Both in America and Canada there have been Nazi leaders of Jewish origin. The former British National Party leader, Nick Griffin, behaved more like a stooge of the intelligence services than a patriot, throwing the party’s chances in the 2010 election by a ridiculous display of stupid and thuggish behavior. Tony Blair was funded largely by Jewish interests. And one could give endless additional examples of elite influence over populist movements.

    Trump beat the establishment by virtue of at least six things (1) his grasp of the American vernacular language that enables him to speak directly with the blue collar class, (2) his exceptional energy, (3) his money, (4) his support for Jewish nationalism which won him Jewish support for his American nationalism, (5) his opportunistic exploitation of Twitter, (6) a weak opponent blinded by a sense of entitlement and demonstrably corrupt.

    In Europe, no identical constellation of factors will come together to upset the establishement. But there are many countries in Europe, each with its own fate yet to be determined. The election in Austria, the imminent fall of Merkel, the Brexit decision, all reveal a crumbling system of control, that will embolden renewed efforts by many people in many different ways to destroy the project for the genocide of the European people, as racial and cultural entities.

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  95. why does Andrei hate China so much?

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    • Replies: @Joe Wong
    Histroy and current reality caused Andrei having a emotional inferiority complex.
    , @JL
    All Russian military personnel, past and current, that I have ever known are like this. For some reasons I know, and many others I don't, there is a strong cultural Sinophobia that runs through the Russian armed forces. They seem to have much more respect for, and trust of, their American counterparts. Perhaps this is a good thing (for Russia) as it will provide a counterbalance to the political leadership as it increasingly orients itself towards China economically. On the other hand, it could also serve as an impediment in the event that a true military crisis emerges and the two must fully align to survive.
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  96. Yes, Russia appears to be the pivot around which the future will unfold. See: MacKinder. The question is who gets to claim their friendship and fidelity? Who’s interests most align with Russia’s? Decades ago, this point came up, and the answer then commonly given was that Russian’s were of the same racial stock as Europeans, and hence culture, and the Chinese were not.

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  97. polskijoe says:

    Europe is still heavily dependant on USA. Thats why a large portion of EU elites
    side with either neoliberalism or neoconservativism.

    Certain European countries have massive debt. What happens if this “relationship” is stopped?

    UK debt: 7.8 trillion
    France: 5.4 trillion
    Germany: 5.1 trillion
    Netherlands: 4.3 trillion
    Luxembourg (lol): 4 trillion debt!

    If the EU breaks, I see the Visegrad countries siding more with US then Russia.
    They might think the US will protect them from EU and Russia.
    Boy I dont want allies like Estonia or West Ukraine.

    Visegrad group is split, anyway:
    Czechs are more liberal, pro Zionist, less religious, national minded
    Slovakia: they are so quiet I cant comment.
    Poland: proEU or proNATO thing going. No talking with Russia, just spread the Applebaum, Soros, or Mccain type propaganda. Most religious.
    Hungary: seems the most balanced between them.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    If the EU breaks, I see the Visegrad countries siding more with US then Russia.
     
    Debatable at best, although by all means not impossible. But if Visegrad Group formalizes itself as military-political-economic alliance, which is definitely possible at some point of time, let's remember one teeny-weeny fact, which is usually completely omitted in any "Western" considerations. Since the collapse of the Warsaw Pact Visegrad nations, especially Poland, were literally pumped with cheap or highly privileged credit and some aid from NATO. It was to make from them a shiny facade for new "democracies". 2020 is the time, however, when a lot of that credit is due to be paid back. We are talking here about very not-trivial sums. This is a major geopolitical factor. Russia, on the other hand, doesn't really care that much about Visegrad affiliation, since Russia's main economic interest in Europe are Germany and Netherlands. Once Nord Stream II is ready, well, as events with Ust-Luga Port and bypassing of Baltic States demonstrates beautifully--Russians are not interested, and act in a very healthy economically selfish manner. So, it is not up to Russians what affiliation Visegrad Group will choose and Russians are content with that.
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  98. polskijoe says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    Russia might see itself as a part of Europe, but most Western Europeans have never seen it that way. So it is like knocking on a door that will never open.
     
    "Door knockers" in Russia are actually a small minority. This is not how it works today. As much as I treat Limonov with a degree of irony, he wrote last year a very short and precise piece with a title "The Europe Now is Us (Russia)", how Europeans (or whatever the populace it is today which used to be known as Europeans) is going to be dealing with this fact--it is strictly European affair. What's left there culturally today can hardly be called Europe anymore. The real Europe which survives today is the one from the Western borders of Poland to Vladivostok. So, the point is that it may (and most likely will) become a completely 180 degrees turn in terms of who will be knocking on whose doors. E.g. many Western Europeans are already migrating to Hungary, Czechia, some to Russia--the migration will only increase. In fighting illness it is always a matter of a union between doctor and a patient. If a sick patient doesn't want to fight deadly decease, well--it is patient's loss. I think the picture will become much clearer in the next 7-8 years is Europe's cancer is treatable at all. After that it wouldn't matter anyway who buys Russia's hydrocarbons in Europe--white "Christian" population or EU ran by mullahs and Islamic councils.

    Several problems:

    a)Falling morals heavily, which usually lead to mass immigration
    b)Low fertility rates
    c)Huge Atlantic friendships between US and EU elites.

    I will just focus on the fertility rates.

    Russias fertility rate is 1.7 (and I suspect less for European Slavics)
    Poland is 1.3
    All the Slavic lands, Romania, Hungary, Baltics have also tiny rates.

    Russia is massive and should do anything necessary to increase ferlirty rates (yes investigations into chemicals, vaccines, health to check if they play any role).

    Poland needs to at least raise back to 2 children. Or it will become slowly empty (sorry not a fan of cloning if thats ever possible for humans).

    Countries like Romania, Ukraine will become more empty.
    Baltics may seize to exist with their tiny population.

    Not looking good.

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    • Replies: @Sergey Krieger
    The killer is liberal capitalism. Growing children had become too expensive. population was growing every year since 1946 then suddenly starting 1992 it started collapsing along with birth rates. Coincidence?
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  99. polskijoe says:
    @Beckow

    Who says so ?

     

    Based on the last research survey Netherlands has the lowest Russia Approval rating. It is 85% negative, 4% neutral, 11% positive. Beats even fanatically anti-Russia Denmark and Sweden, at 83 and 81 negative views.

    https://s17.postimg.org/r56ivxjn3/russia_approval.png

    I was surprised. A few years ago I did some graduate studies in Rotterdam and the place was sanity central. People were generally skeptical. I agree that the Ukraine-EU referendum showed Dutch as thoughtful people.

    In all EU countries the media is in a silly Russia is a threat and 'everything Russian is evil' phase. Nobody does it better than UK or Germany. And yet, both British and Germans are slightly less anti-Russia than the small northern countries. What is going on?

    Sorry more multiple posts (I hope they get through).

    Wow Poland is at 27. There is hope lol!

    I dont believe the marks from Germany and France.
    I saw another poll and many Germans want to improve relations with Russia.
    Was surprised by Croatia.

    Read More
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  100. Joe Wong says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Russia might see itself as a part of Europe, but most Western Europeans have never seen it that way. So it is like knocking on a door that will never open.
     
    I haven't read the post (later, it's long). But, your comment is only partially right. True, most Western Europeans had not, until the 19th C, considered Russia to be a part of the "West"- but the majority of thinking women & men do consider it now (and have been in past 100-150 years).

    What is West?

    It is a combination of three elements:

    1. Greco-Roman heritage
    2. Christianity
    3. rational & scientific spirit going back to 18th C Enlightenment

    If we include the Renaissance as the prerequisite, Russia would not pass the check. But nor would Norway, Sweden or Greece. Not persuasive, no ...

    If it is because of a regional variant of Christianity, then we should also dispense with Greece, something hardly imaginable- they're the cradle of the Western civilization.

    Looking at Russian history, identity & culture in past, say, 3 centuries, it definitely belongs to Europe. Moreover, there is not a single specifically Russian cultural trait that is alien or incomprehensible to the "core" West of France, Italy or Switzerland.

    Unlike Arab world, east Asia, India,...among civilizations. And I even won't mention shitholes.

    The three elements you defined West is contradictory to each other and problematic. If point 3 stands, you are saying the West has never exist before 18th century Enlightenment, and you are condemning your ancestors as stupid, uneducated, superstitious, imitative, ignorant, passive, irrational, ritualistic, lazy, chaotic, spontaneous, insane, emotional, dysfunctional, enslaved, despotic, intolerant, corrupt, savage, barbaric, morally regressive and economically stagnant.

    Looking back to history, during the medieval Euopre Dark Age, i.e. before the Renaissance, Europe was indeed an ignorant, superstitious, enslaved, ritualistic, regressive, and barbaric place. Linking such shithole place to highly developed Greek and Roman civilizations required a leap of faith beyond the imagination of make believe Hollywood. If the West claims Greco-Roman heritage, probably the history of the highly develop Greek and Roman civilizations are fake news, hearsays, or manufactured consents in order to have a transition from a degenerated Greco-Roman civilization to degenerated medieval Dark Age Europe possible.

    Christianity is about love, equality, sharing, peace and forgiving. Yet since the European could sail outside of the Mediterranean Sea, the West’s real contribution to human civilisation is Land/Resource grab, colonisation of the entire planet. Genocide, massacres of natives of Americas, Australia/New Zealand. Inhuman, despicable Slave trade to sustain those colonies. Perpetration of extreme violence to retain & extract resources from colonies all over the world. And unprecedented mass killings AMONG WHITES THEMSELVES masqueraded as WORLD WARS over spoils of the entire world.

    Then we have HOLLOWCAST as small sideshow, Total Human killings of just last 100 years …. Staggering 180 million human. The West also invented the way to blow up the earth and exterminate all of us into radioactive ashes, making all our existence and civilizations to void and null. It is a total betrayal of Christianity.

    None of the three elements you mentioned fits the West in according to what they behave and what they are, such concept construct is a fraud by masters of delusions, who mistakenly think we don’t know nothing …

    Read More
    • Replies: @1rw
    Maybe you misunderstand Christianity?
    , @Sergey Krieger
    It is capitalism. Didn't Marx tell that for 300% return there is no crime capitalist won't hesitate to commit.There certainly was far higher rates of return than 300% hence crimes were in line to returns. Note that the time what you have described Europe was in early stages of capital accumulation. Note that Romans for example would never hurt civilians if those surrendered and offered no resistance. Also note that ancient Greeks and Romans basically considered all humans equal.
    , @Malla

    Europe was indeed an ignorant, superstitious, enslaved, ritualistic, regressive, and barbaric place.
     
    So was most of the world. Indeed many other parts of the world was even worse. In many ways Medieval Europe was more advanced then other parts of the world.

    Yet since the European could sail outside of the Mediterranean Sea, the West’s real contribution to human civilisation is Land/Resource grab, colonisation of the entire planet. Genocide, massacres of natives of Americas, Australia/New Zealand. Inhuman, despicable Slave trade to sustain those colonies. Perpetration of extreme violence to retain & extract resources from colonies all over the world.
     
    Take you communist propaganda elsewhere. Yes bad things were done but a lot more good things done as well by European colonization.

    Then we have HOLLOWCAST as small sideshow, Total Human killings of just last 100 years …. Staggering 180 million human.
     
    The holocaust is disputed. Let us talk about how many millions Communism killed.

    The West also invented the way to blow up the earth and exterminate all of us into radioactive ashes, making all our existence and civilizations to void and null. It is a total betrayal of Christianity.
     
    And the rest of the world wants that technology too. The rest of the world shameless uses the technology of the west but will keep on hating on the west. Such shameless behaviour is beyond disgust.
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  101. denk says:

    It is not surprising therefore to see increased cooperation between the US and Indian Navies.

    Once a slave, always a slave.

    Read More
    • LOL: TT
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  102. denk says:
    @Andrei Martyanov
    Somebody will--and this is a long game. A lot in it depends on the fate of the United States, what it eventually becomes. A huge, huge question mark. I wrote for years now that Russia and US are natural allies, it is too bad that American "elites" are, for the most part, dumb as a stump.

    I wrote for years now that Russia and US are natural allies, it is too bad that American “elites” are, for the most part, dumb as a stump

    Too bad !
    The anglos dont really consider slavs real whiteys.

    murikka has a G2 partner now.
    In case you havent noticed, its no more Asia-Pacific,
    The emperor has decree that from now on its the Indo-Pacific.
    The Indians are in cloud nine at the moment. !

    hhhh

    Read More
    • Replies: @Malla
    That is not a slave, it is a servant being paid a salary, you fool.
    , @Andrei Martyanov

    Too bad ! The anglos dont really consider slavs real whiteys.
     
    I think those "Anglos" who do not consider Slavs as "whiteys" better check their current "whitey" status--doesn't look white to me. But that is beyond the point, the issue at hand is could "Anglos" remain European in essence, if not--they are done. So far, I see very few redeeming factors in all that.
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  103. Joe Wong says:
    @Randal
    Fascinating stuff, thanks.

    The US regime's record on foreign and military policy over the past three decades suggests that if there is a really stupid way to cock everything up for the US and for the world, they will find and enact it.

    The growth in importance of the northern sea route will make the Bering Strait ever more important. Presumably that's where the US would look to interdict Chinese/Russian trade with Europe by this route in a war situation. Russia for sure could close it, but could it keep it open for trade against determined US opposition? Seems unlikely to me.

    However, that does mean going to war with Russia in order to strangle China, which ups the ante considerably for the kind of war with China US militarists would like to see. Though by the time the northern route is carrying enough traffic to make it significant, China's military tech and strategic nuclear deterrent will likely be much more capable relative to the US than it is today anyway.

    [Typo in final para by the way - United Sates.]

    Now or never, isn’t it? I guess the American should nip the bud before China grows more. NK crisis surely is a remake of Lusitania to launch a first strike against Russia and China I reckon. BTW have you build you bunker yet? You should know USA is a safe heaven and it is immune from war is a fallacy, a fool’s wishful thinking.

    Read More
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  104. Joe Wong says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    Personally I don’t think the US navy is as all powerful as the article suggests. Many weapons systems are dated, hulls are aging and new concepts like the Zumwalt do not seem to address any coherent strategic objective.
     
    It is powerful enough to completely shutdown Indian Ocean SLOCs for China, especially due to US Navy's submarine force--China has nothing comparable and will not have anything comparable for a very long time. The only way for China to have safe passage in Indian Ocean is to wait for the US to completely implode and from India to refuse to have a viable navy.

    Chinese submarines are driven by electromagnetic induction propulsion system, no propellers and no vibration from engines or steam turbines. Chinese submarines routinely trial US submarines weeks a time. PLAN said there were sexual abuse screams on the US nuclear submarines all the time, it is really inhuman for the life on US submarines.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
    You are a child. Those are simply synchronous motors driven by batteries, certainly not invented by Chinese.
    These are regular diesel powered submarines certainly not invented by Chinese. Germans did have them in WW2 Batteries have to be regularly charged by Diesel motors.
    How come people on this site swallow your idiotic nonsense.
    I do realize that people on this site are not really technical people but even thous should recognize that you are spewing total nonsense.
    Objects in water can be driven by propeller, water stream, or air stream.
    Some Russian torpedoes are driven by airstream
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  105. Joe Wong says:
    @Mr. Hack

    The real Europe which survives today is the one from the Western borders of Poland to Vladivostok.
     
    Everything east of the Urals? Really? For all of your alleged prowess in being a mastermind of the sciences, it looks like you slept through your geography and history courses? Europe in Siberia and the Far East?... Seriously?

    Perhaps Andrei Martyanov knows deep in his heart that Siberia and the Far East are never part of Russia, they are stolen land just like the North America and Australia are stolen lands.

    Read More
    • Replies: @CanSpeccy

    Siberia and the Far East are never part of Russia, they are stolen land just like the North America and Australia are stolen lands
     
    You mean like Tibet, Xinjiang, and Formosa?
    , @WHAT
    Gotta love how zipperheads readily adopt SJW bullshit when it suits their purpose. You know what, come and get it. Last time you tried, your losses were what, 800 hundred dead gooks to 60 white people wounded? It will be far worse(or should I say better) next time around: Steel Belt is there, waiting, if you catch my drift.
    , @Sergey Krieger
    I suppose most of what constitutes China now is a stolen land too. And Europe most of it. Life is life. Weak who cannot defend own land from strangers lose it. Deep in your heart you know that Tibet, Inner Mongolia, Xinjian , heck even Sichuan and Guangzhou are not really China. Chinese stole most of what constitutes China now from aboriginal populations.
    , @Ilyana_Rozumova
    You are a total idiot. Siberia is a stolen land? From whom? Siberia was always virgin land.
    And most of Siberia is still a virgin land where human still do not have a footprint.
    Russians were the least aggressive Slavic tribe who were pushed to utmost north, but they never new that it will be to their benefit, Now they are reaping the benefit of their mild character. The largest area of surface of the earth full of immense riches of natural resources extent of which is still not determined. For Russians it is like gift from God being docile and accommodating.
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  106. utu says:
    @AaronB
    I love it! Thank you for linking to tbat, Daniel.

    According to the law of dialectic, as China's frenetic Westernization gathers momentum, it must generate these countervailing forces which resist that.

    My cautious hope is that ultimately the good side of China will prevail, as that tradition has such a long history and is so deeply embedded. The current turn to power politics is surely a crisis response and historically conditioned, and as such deserving of sympathy and understanding, if not enthusiasm.

    We shall see - tnanks!

    My cautious hope is that ultimately the good side of China will prevail

    Chinese might be in long run more cautious than Jews because they have a lot of their own people and they play with them unlike the Jews who use other people as pawns so they are more reckless. However if their influence and power will grow they will develop the sense of impunity and will get arrogant and corrupted. Their moral inhibitions work differently than in the West and they will become superfluous once they get all powerful.

    Why drivers in China intentionally kill the pedestrians they hit

    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2015/09/why_drivers_in_china_intentionally_kill_the_pedestrians_they_hit_china_s.html

    Read More
    • Replies: @AaronB
    Utu, you've become incredibly cynical since I've known you on this site. I understand the temptation, and I hope it is just a phase, because I know you are better than this nonsense, and on the side of the angels ultimately, whether you admit it or not. Your incredibly smart comments on IQ are a help to us all.

    The Chinese now have taken a bad path, and I'm not naive about tnat, but there is an incredible amount of good in Chinese culture , and we can all hope that that ultimately prevails, and it's stupid not to realise that the current Chinese path is largely a result of their traumatic encounter with the West .

    Whether the Chinese can overcome that is open to doubt, but we can all hope that they can, and rejoice in any indications that they are.
    , @denk

    Chinese might be in long run more cautious than Jews because they have a lot of their own people and they play with them unlike the Jews who use other people as pawns
     
    Elaborate. !

    so they are more reckless. However if their influence and power will grow they will develop the sense of impunity and will get arrogant and corrupted. Their moral inhibitions work differently than in the West and they will become superfluous once they get all powerful.
     
    Anglos/Indians believe in Might Is Right.
    Worse still, they always project their own mind set onto others, therein lies the trouble, they always imagine someone is here to usurp their throne so they've to strike out first !

    hhhhhh


    P.S.
    1] Are you saying that some drivers allegedly killed their victims prove that China would be the next evil empire. :?

    2] How credible is that link ?
    hint] see my reply to canspacey.
    , @Jonathan Revusky

    Why drivers in China intentionally kill the pedestrians they hit

    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2015/09/why_drivers_in_china_intentionally_kill_the_pedestrians_they_hit_china_s.html
     
    Maybe the reason why is that they are in such a hurry to get to the zoophilia brothel to copulate with a donkey. (That's a little in-joke...)

    Utu, you've really got to stop falling for this kind of fake bullshit. This story about people intentionally killing the people they run over is an urban legend that has been floated about other southeast Asian countries and also other countries, including Russia. Now, sure, there may have been a handful of known incidents, but it is not something that generally happens anywhere, as far as I can tell. Certainly, the people in China are not such rat bastards as that Slate article would portray them as. Frankly, I don't think the bulk of the population are such rat bastards anywhere.

    Anyway, I remember somebody passed me that Slate link some while back and I was incredulous and I looked into it and found some fairly convincing rebuttals. I dug them up again for your benefit.

    https://www.quora.com/What-does-it-tell-us-about-Chinese-culture-and-society-that-according-to-an-article-on-Slate-drivers-in-China-ensure-that-they-kill-people-who-they-hit/answer/Greg-Blandino

    Well, here's a shorter one, since you may suffer from a short attention span:

    https://www.quora.com/What-does-it-tell-us-about-Chinese-culture-and-society-that-according-to-an-article-on-Slate-drivers-in-China-ensure-that-they-kill-people-who-they-hit/answer/Terry-Newman

    Snopes, which is pretty useless for somethings, is pretty good for debunking something like this and I just saw that they have a treatment of it: https://www.snopes.com/chinese-drivers-kill-pedestrians/

    But anyway, utu, you've got to work on your BDQ. I gave you (not just you) a fairly powerful tool that I called Revusky's Razor, the basic concept that nothing of a large scale can happen in a wide-open public place full of people without resulting in a fair bit of visual evidence. You (and some others) claimed that you were incapable of understanding this.

    Or maybe, given a number of months, you have finally figured out that hundreds of women cannot be sexually assaulted in a main city train station without a single incident being caught on camera, so therefore it didn't happen. I'm not optimistic that you have figured it out. Willful obtuseness seems to be incurable. I still post the above links for anybody wants to look into this particular fake story.
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  107. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Joe Wong
    Perhaps Andrei Martyanov knows deep in his heart that Siberia and the Far East are never part of Russia, they are stolen land just like the North America and Australia are stolen lands.

    Siberia and the Far East are never part of Russia, they are stolen land just like the North America and Australia are stolen lands

    You mean like Tibet, Xinjiang, and Formosa?

    Read More
    • Agree: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Joe Wong
    Tibet, Xinjiang, Taiwan, Vietnam, and many other places have long history tangled with China culturally and economically in a normal process of building a country; unlike the White invaded and stole the North America and Australia uninvited, unwanted and with atrocity and organized violence. You should know there is a big difference between incorporating with partners and occupying thru stealing and robbing with organized violence.
    , @denk
    FFS
    TW was part of China before the jp robbed it in 1898 .

    Get this into your thick skull,
    Even tho China claims rightful sovereignty over TW there aint no PLA troops occupying the island and raping TW lass like what the illegit murkkans do in Okinawa./Jeju/Ph.. etc etc/

    BTW,
    Are You saying that cuz the Mongols/Manchus took Tibet/Xinjiang in the 15c so the Czar was entitiled to take Siberia and the anglos to take
    USA/Canada/Hawaii/Puerto Rico/Guam./Diego Garcia/ Okinawa./Jeju/ Oz/NZ......ETC ETC ?
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  108. Joe Wong says:
    @Andrei Martyanov
    Somebody will--and this is a long game. A lot in it depends on the fate of the United States, what it eventually becomes. A huge, huge question mark. I wrote for years now that Russia and US are natural allies, it is too bad that American "elites" are, for the most part, dumb as a stump.

    Yes, Russia can be Anglo’s natural allies, it only needs Russian to beg hard enough, Boris Yeltsin hasn’t begged hard enough, bent low enough and licked the boots bright enough.

    Read More
    • Replies: @CanSpeccy

    Yes, Russia can be Anglo’s natural allies, it only needs Russian to beg hard enough
     
    The US doesn't want Russia as an ally. The US wishes to take Russia apart, divide it into Corruptionistans headed by Poroshenkite puppets, who will take a commission on whatever the US and allies loot.

    Once Russia has been dismantled, NATO will move to the Chinese border. Once China has been strangled, or its elite bought off, it'll be game over for the democratic nation state, in a world united under the Money Power.

    To deter the megalomaniac US, is why the Russians have developed a drone torpedo with a 100 megaton warhead salted with cobalt to totally destroy the United States East coast. A hundred megatons is 6 thousand times bigger than the Hiroshima bomb.

    The globalist psychopaths are leading the world to Hell.

    , @Drapetomaniac
    The concept of property of the natives in Australia and the Americas was on par with that of animals in nature and was treated as such.

    Sad to say, much of the so-called civilized world is currently moving in that direction.
    , @Sergey Krieger
    Wrong, Russia and USA can be natural allies when USA is cut to regional status... It will be also interesting to see who will be doing the begging part.
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  109. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Joe Wong
    Yes, Russia can be Anglo's natural allies, it only needs Russian to beg hard enough, Boris Yeltsin hasn't begged hard enough, bent low enough and licked the boots bright enough.

    Yes, Russia can be Anglo’s natural allies, it only needs Russian to beg hard enough

    The US doesn’t want Russia as an ally. The US wishes to take Russia apart, divide it into Corruptionistans headed by Poroshenkite puppets, who will take a commission on whatever the US and allies loot.

    Once Russia has been dismantled, NATO will move to the Chinese border. Once China has been strangled, or its elite bought off, it’ll be game over for the democratic nation state, in a world united under the Money Power.

    To deter the megalomaniac US, is why the Russians have developed a drone torpedo with a 100 megaton warhead salted with cobalt to totally destroy the United States East coast. A hundred megatons is 6 thousand times bigger than the Hiroshima bomb.

    The globalist psychopaths are leading the world to Hell.

    Read More
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  110. @Joe Wong
    Yes, Russia can be Anglo's natural allies, it only needs Russian to beg hard enough, Boris Yeltsin hasn't begged hard enough, bent low enough and licked the boots bright enough.

    The concept of property of the natives in Australia and the Americas was on par with that of animals in nature and was treated as such.

    Sad to say, much of the so-called civilized world is currently moving in that direction.

    Read More
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  111. Joe Wong says:
    @Greasy William
    why does Andrei hate China so much?

    Histroy and current reality caused Andrei having a emotional inferiority complex.

    Read More
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  112. AaronB says:
    @utu

    My cautious hope is that ultimately the good side of China will prevail
     
    Chinese might be in long run more cautious than Jews because they have a lot of their own people and they play with them unlike the Jews who use other people as pawns so they are more reckless. However if their influence and power will grow they will develop the sense of impunity and will get arrogant and corrupted. Their moral inhibitions work differently than in the West and they will become superfluous once they get all powerful.

    Why drivers in China intentionally kill the pedestrians they hit
    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2015/09/why_drivers_in_china_intentionally_kill_the_pedestrians_they_hit_china_s.html
     

    Utu, you’ve become incredibly cynical since I’ve known you on this site. I understand the temptation, and I hope it is just a phase, because I know you are better than this nonsense, and on the side of the angels ultimately, whether you admit it or not. Your incredibly smart comments on IQ are a help to us all.

    The Chinese now have taken a bad path, and I’m not naive about tnat, but there is an incredible amount of good in Chinese culture , and we can all hope that that ultimately prevails, and it’s stupid not to realise that the current Chinese path is largely a result of their traumatic encounter with the West .

    Whether the Chinese can overcome that is open to doubt, but we can all hope that they can, and rejoice in any indications that they are.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh

    Utu, you’ve become incredibly cynical since I’ve known you on this site.
     
    Spend more time at Unz, you'll also gain the Misanthropy achivement.
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  113. Malla says:
    @denk

    I wrote for years now that Russia and US are natural allies, it is too bad that American “elites” are, for the most part, dumb as a stump
     
    Too bad !
    The anglos dont really consider slavs real whiteys.

    murikka has a G2 partner now.
    In case you havent noticed, its no more Asia-Pacific,
    The emperor has decree that from now on its the Indo-Pacific.
    The Indians are in cloud nine at the moment. !

    hhhh

    That is not a slave, it is a servant being paid a salary, you fool.

    Read More
    • Replies: @denk
    When the entire India was under British rule,
    Every Indian was a slave, moron.

    May be the Indians think clipping the whitey's toe nails was an honorable
    profession,'

    hhhhhhh
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  114. Joe Wong says:
    @CanSpeccy

    Siberia and the Far East are never part of Russia, they are stolen land just like the North America and Australia are stolen lands
     
    You mean like Tibet, Xinjiang, and Formosa?

    Tibet, Xinjiang, Taiwan, Vietnam, and many other places have long history tangled with China culturally and economically in a normal process of building a country; unlike the White invaded and stole the North America and Australia uninvited, unwanted and with atrocity and organized violence. You should know there is a big difference between incorporating with partners and occupying thru stealing and robbing with organized violence.

    Read More
    • Replies: @CanSpeccy

    You should know there is a big difference between incorporating with partners and occupying thru stealing and robbing with organized violence.
     
    Yes, tell that to the Tibetans, the Uyghurs, and countless others presently or in the past subject to Chinese ethnic cleansing, or oppression, e.g.:

    The Destruction of Ethnic Identity: The Uyghur People Fight for Freedom in the Shadow of Chinese Oppression

    and

    Uyghur Muslims: Victims of the World’s Largest Ethnic Cleansing.
    , @Mr. Hack

    You should know there is a big difference between incorporating with partners and occupying thru stealing and robbing with organized violence.
     
    Other than being an easier proposition for the co-opting invading 'partner', I don't see much of a difference. Local Ukrainian elites were eliminated, cajoled, bribed and even coddled by Russian imperial forces for centuries to become a part of a future Russian empire, and look where that dream is today?...
    , @polskijoe
    Central Asia, and some parts of North Asia (Siberia).
    were populated by IndoEuropeans, 2000-3000 years ago. Of course their were areas with Mongoloids too.
    then the Huns, and Mongols and Turks took over the land, and either killed or mixed with them.

    Instead to resorting to "who stole which land" focus on today.

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  115. V says:
    @Beckow
    Yes, you are right and still most people in Western Europe (and some in the east, all the way to Ukraine) do not consider Russia to be a part of Europe. It is an emotional position. Occasionally they will drop it when convenient, but the dislike of Russia eventually prevails.

    Use some basic criteria for inclusion:
    - Is Russia treated by the same standards as Europe treats itself? Obviously not, the rules are applied completely differently from Kosovo-Crimea, ethnic minority questions, to applying due process in institutions (last example being the Olympic doping).

    What is West?

    It is a combination of three elements:

    1. Greco-Roman heritage
    2. Christianity
    3. rational & scientific spirit going back to 18th C Enlightenment

     

    I would add that Europe (what you refer to as 'West') is also infrastructure, engineering competence, society norms, etc...

    Greece-Rome is too ancient, Christianity has been almost explicitly abandoned in the West, and rational spirit requires consistent critical thinking - that is in short supply in official Europe these days.

    Russia will be accepted by Western Europeans as 'Europe' when nobody will any longer want to be thought off as 'Western Europe'. The multi-culti nirvana with dirty streets, gangs and PC authoritarianism will then say to Russia: 'come in, you are one of us, can we move to your territory?, we have messed up our homes, please save us from our past indulgence'.

    [It's extremely bad practice to essentially repeat the same very long comment on multiple different threads. If you continue behaving in this manner, all your future comments may get trashed.]

    It is heading towards a confrontation. The first step of dehumanising and demonising the ‘enemy’ has been done – in the West almost totally, I don’t know about Russia.

    The meme of a future war between the US and Russia has been out there for a long time, since at least 1853. The below are excerpts from an at the time widely reviewed geo-political book published in the United States called The New Rome; or, the United States of the World. The gist of the book is that a future newly created US/UK bloc is to first conquer the center of power upon continental Europe, Germany, and then immediately after that proceed to go after Russia. It’s all to conclude with the US having a global empire, the ‘New Rome’. What I wonder though is if in some Russian library somewhere there is a long forgotten dust covered book from the 19th century that says almost exactly the same thing, but with Russia being the one that creates a global empire for itself.

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  116. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Joe Wong
    Tibet, Xinjiang, Taiwan, Vietnam, and many other places have long history tangled with China culturally and economically in a normal process of building a country; unlike the White invaded and stole the North America and Australia uninvited, unwanted and with atrocity and organized violence. You should know there is a big difference between incorporating with partners and occupying thru stealing and robbing with organized violence.

    You should know there is a big difference between incorporating with partners and occupying thru stealing and robbing with organized violence.

    Yes, tell that to the Tibetans, the Uyghurs, and countless others presently or in the past subject to Chinese ethnic cleansing, or oppression, e.g.:

    The Destruction of Ethnic Identity: The Uyghur People Fight for Freedom in the Shadow of Chinese Oppression

    and

    Uyghur Muslims: Victims of the World’s Largest Ethnic Cleansing.

    Read More
    • Agree: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @denk
    Any imbecile can post a link but that proves nuthin my dear !

    Be educated,
    this is what I call real evidence,
    insider info on murkkan sponsored terrorism,
    https://truthandshadows.wordpress.com/2017/06/19/manufactured-migrants/
    , @Joe Wong
    Uyghur Eastern Turkestan's headquarters is in Washington, the "Uyghur" freedom fighters caught in China are Al-Quad affiliates and served in ISIS which is an CIA creation, a lot of those get caught in China are not Uyghurs but ME Islam extremist mercenaries who want to kill all infidels including the Americans.

    Dalai Lama was kidnapped by CIA and MI6 to exile, and the Tibetan exiles lived on CIA and NED funding.

    Apart from using the Uyghur and Tibetan outlaws as a weapons to continue their Anglo Empire expansion conquest, it is also serve the purpose in the new cold war against China to prevent a different idea emerged to show how bad the world under the hypocritical and regressive Anglo dominance in the last few hundred years.

    The American and their Western partners want to keep both Uyghur and Tibetan proxies going because they are good tools to divert attention from their own failure in dealing with multi-racial problems in their backyards due to their own flawed culture and civilization, i.e. the West and particular the Anglo is racist, xenophobia, selfish, feudal and zero-sum. Image how are you going to defend your people for all the wrong doings and crimes committed against peace and humanity in the last few hundreds of years without the Uyghur and Tibetan proxies.
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  117. V says:
    @Michael Kenny
    Many good points but, in a general way, I think the author seriously underestimates the role of airpower in modern warfare. Mahan’s book dates from 1890, at a time when aviation didn’t even exist, to say nothing of radio, radar, spy satellites, or GPS. In Mahan’s day, and even down to WWII, once a fleet disappeared over the horizon, its whereabouts remained unknown until it popped up somewhere. That was the origin of the “fleet in being” theory: countries always had to allow for the possibility that an enemy fleet, that they knew was at sea, would suddenly pop up over the horizon. That’s no longer the case and today, control of the airspace over the battlefield is the essential element. Russia’s Arctic coast, which the author seems to regard as its best card, is extremely vulnerable to attack by land-based planes from North America, which avoids the current debate about the future usefulness of aircraft carriers. Any US – Russian war would almost certainly be mainly an air war over the Arctic, given the string of “resource sites” (oil, gas, coal etc.) stretching from just west of the Urals all the way to the Pacific coast.
    “The name of the Chinese game is Europe”. “China’s initiative is not that beneficial to Russia. In fact, it goes contrary to Russia’s own plans for creating a new Eurasian Economic Union”. That needed to be said. The Chinese plan has been presented in the US as being designed to prop up Putin but it is actually undermining him both by reaching out to the EU, in regard to which Putin has reduced Russia to being Washington’s stooge, and by disenclaving the Central Asian republics, breaking Russia’s stranglehold on their communications by providing them with rail links to seaports. I think the author’s assessment of the “alliance” with China is thus a bit exaggerated. It is, as he says, merely designed to secure China's rear. I would doubt if it could properly be called a fully-fledged military alliance.
    “In the end, the United States also needs Europe in a desperate attempt to revitalize own economy by utilizing the subjugated and split EU as the main market for US hydrocarbons and goods”. The idea that the US is trying to subjugate and split the EU also needed to be said and Putin’s mistake was to make himself part of that operation. Putin has told so many lies that nobody now knows what to believe but concerns for the fate of white European Christian Civilization and the desire to preserve it will be music to the ears of EU leaders. Russia is a European country and the Russians are the most numerous European ethnic group. The claim that they are not is part of the abovementioned US campaign to destroy the EU. Europe gets the signal loud and clear but does Putin? He must realise that there can be no deal with the EU until he removes himself from Ukraine and, probably, until he himself leaves power. If the US leaves Europe in the lurch, then it will destroy itself, be simply bypassed as a player in Eurasia, as the author puts it. By making himself an American stooge, Putin has become a liability to the gangsters who put him into power and, indeed, to the American groups that want to use him as a battering ram to destroy the EU. Do they get the signal?

    Many good points but, in a general way, I think the author seriously underestimates the role of airpower in modern warfare…Any US – Russian war would almost certainly be mainly an air war..

    The almost exact same point you’ve made was made in an 1853 geo-political book published in the United States entitled The New Rome. What I don’t understand is why almost no one knows of this book…though I have my suspicions.

    pg.155-156

    ‘It [air power] will give us the victory over Russian continentalism. American air-privateers will be down upon the Russian garrisons, to use our own expressive slang, ‘like a parcel of bricks’…

    The New Rome; or, the United States of the World – 1853

    We are on the eve of aerial navigation…

    The first four acts already past,
    A fifth shall close the drama with the day;
    Time’s noblest offspring is the last.

    The sea is less confined than the river, the ocean more ubiquitous than the sea, but the air alone is fitted for a universal civilization. Its shores are every where; it can penetrate the poles ; it will settle the wilds of Tartary and the valleys of Central Africa. It will know no harbors and no ports, no depots and no entrepots. It will make all parts of the earth alike passable and alike accessible. It will give us the victory over Russian continentalism. Freedom is now limited to the oceanic world, to England and America ; Russia, with its continental dependencies, is despotic ; it has no ships, and therefore no freedom ; no freedom, and therefore no navy; having no navy, it can never do great injury to the seafaring world. But its despotism gives it an army, and its army will protect its despotism. The seafaring nations, on the other hand, have their navy to protect their freedom, but they will never have a large standing army to extend their system. To suppose this, would be to deny every leading characteristic of Americanism. This would keep the two halves of the world in a state of perpetual isolation, did not the navigation of the air restore them to a common element. American air-privateers will be down upon the Russian garrisons — to use our own expressive slang — ” like a parcel of bricks ;” and the Russian serfs will fasten to their skirts, and be elevated to a share in their liberties.

    Compare the above excerpt from pg 155-156 of the 1853 New Rome book referencing US/UK domination of the sea and air with something written about the modern Russian Alexander Dugin below. A person might begin to think that these things were being manipulated between the US and Russia. Dugin’s theories foresee an eternal world conflict between land and sea, and hence, Dugin believes, the U.S. and Russia.

    Are the peoples of the world being played on a mass scale?

    Dugin’s theories foresee an eternal world conflict between land and sea, and hence, Dugin believes, the U.S. and Russia. He says, “In principle, Eurasia and our space, the heartland Russia, remain the staging area of a new anti-bourgeois, anti-American revolution.” According to his 1997 book, The Basics of Geopolitics, “The new Eurasian empire will be constructed on the fundamental principle of the common enemy: the rejection of Atlanticism, strategic control of the USA, and the refusal to allow liberal [anarchic] values to dominate us. This common civilizational impulse will be the basis of a political and strategic union.”

    https://majorityrights.com/weblog/comments/the_new_rome_or_the_united_states_of_the_world_1853

    https://archive.org/details/newrome00poes

    https://archive.org/details/politicalprophec00goe

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  118. WHAT says:
    @Joe Wong
    Perhaps Andrei Martyanov knows deep in his heart that Siberia and the Far East are never part of Russia, they are stolen land just like the North America and Australia are stolen lands.

    Gotta love how zipperheads readily adopt SJW bullshit when it suits their purpose. You know what, come and get it. Last time you tried, your losses were what, 800 hundred dead gooks to 60 white people wounded? It will be far worse(or should I say better) next time around: Steel Belt is there, waiting, if you catch my drift.

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    • Replies: @britishbrainsize1325cclol
    Your just a biologically compromised race of weak willed pleasure loving race of people with pig skin
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  119. @AaronB
    Utu, you've become incredibly cynical since I've known you on this site. I understand the temptation, and I hope it is just a phase, because I know you are better than this nonsense, and on the side of the angels ultimately, whether you admit it or not. Your incredibly smart comments on IQ are a help to us all.

    The Chinese now have taken a bad path, and I'm not naive about tnat, but there is an incredible amount of good in Chinese culture , and we can all hope that that ultimately prevails, and it's stupid not to realise that the current Chinese path is largely a result of their traumatic encounter with the West .

    Whether the Chinese can overcome that is open to doubt, but we can all hope that they can, and rejoice in any indications that they are.

    Utu, you’ve become incredibly cynical since I’ve known you on this site.

    Spend more time at Unz, you’ll also gain the Misanthropy achivement.

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    • Replies: @anonymous
    Do you mean aaron or utu?
    , @Joe Wong
    Come on, be a sport, Roman is not built in one day, you cannot change the Westerners' stereotyping based on the Eurocentrism and Orientalism by just few lines of blogs or even few millions lines of blogs. The West took a couple of hundred years to plant their fabricated Eurocentrism and Orientalism deep in their culture as matter of fact, history, unquestionable believe and subconscious. It is long way to go to put wrong back to right, to expose the lies in their Eurocentrism and Orientalism, and the crimes they committed as humanitarian intervention, it is the only beginning of this long march struggle.
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  120. V says:
    @Beckow

    Who says so ?

     

    Based on the last research survey Netherlands has the lowest Russia Approval rating. It is 85% negative, 4% neutral, 11% positive. Beats even fanatically anti-Russia Denmark and Sweden, at 83 and 81 negative views.

    https://s17.postimg.org/r56ivxjn3/russia_approval.png

    I was surprised. A few years ago I did some graduate studies in Rotterdam and the place was sanity central. People were generally skeptical. I agree that the Ukraine-EU referendum showed Dutch as thoughtful people.

    In all EU countries the media is in a silly Russia is a threat and 'everything Russian is evil' phase. Nobody does it better than UK or Germany. And yet, both British and Germans are slightly less anti-Russia than the small northern countries. What is going on?

    In all EU countries the media is in a silly Russia is a threat and ‘everything Russian is evil’ phase.

    Everyone’s being conditioned. And of course in the US the hysteria regarding Russia has been going on much longer than in Europe.

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  121. 1rw says:
    @Joe Wong
    The three elements you defined West is contradictory to each other and problematic. If point 3 stands, you are saying the West has never exist before 18th century Enlightenment, and you are condemning your ancestors as stupid, uneducated, superstitious, imitative, ignorant, passive, irrational, ritualistic, lazy, chaotic, spontaneous, insane, emotional, dysfunctional, enslaved, despotic, intolerant, corrupt, savage, barbaric, morally regressive and economically stagnant.

    Looking back to history, during the medieval Euopre Dark Age, i.e. before the Renaissance, Europe was indeed an ignorant, superstitious, enslaved, ritualistic, regressive, and barbaric place. Linking such shithole place to highly developed Greek and Roman civilizations required a leap of faith beyond the imagination of make believe Hollywood. If the West claims Greco-Roman heritage, probably the history of the highly develop Greek and Roman civilizations are fake news, hearsays, or manufactured consents in order to have a transition from a degenerated Greco-Roman civilization to degenerated medieval Dark Age Europe possible.

    Christianity is about love, equality, sharing, peace and forgiving. Yet since the European could sail outside of the Mediterranean Sea, the West's real contribution to human civilisation is Land/Resource grab, colonisation of the entire planet. Genocide, massacres of natives of Americas, Australia/New Zealand. Inhuman, despicable Slave trade to sustain those colonies. Perpetration of extreme violence to retain & extract resources from colonies all over the world. And unprecedented mass killings AMONG WHITES THEMSELVES masqueraded as WORLD WARS over spoils of the entire world.

    Then we have HOLLOWCAST as small sideshow, Total Human killings of just last 100 years .... Staggering 180 million human. The West also invented the way to blow up the earth and exterminate all of us into radioactive ashes, making all our existence and civilizations to void and null. It is a total betrayal of Christianity.

    None of the three elements you mentioned fits the West in according to what they behave and what they are, such concept construct is a fraud by masters of delusions, who mistakenly think we don’t know nothing …

    Maybe you misunderstand Christianity?

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  122. denk says:
    @utu

    My cautious hope is that ultimately the good side of China will prevail
     
    Chinese might be in long run more cautious than Jews because they have a lot of their own people and they play with them unlike the Jews who use other people as pawns so they are more reckless. However if their influence and power will grow they will develop the sense of impunity and will get arrogant and corrupted. Their moral inhibitions work differently than in the West and they will become superfluous once they get all powerful.

    Why drivers in China intentionally kill the pedestrians they hit
    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2015/09/why_drivers_in_china_intentionally_kill_the_pedestrians_they_hit_china_s.html
     

    Chinese might be in long run more cautious than Jews because they have a lot of their own people and they play with them unlike the Jews who use other people as pawns

    Elaborate. !

    so they are more reckless. However if their influence and power will grow they will develop the sense of impunity and will get arrogant and corrupted. Their moral inhibitions work differently than in the West and they will become superfluous once they get all powerful.

    Anglos/Indians believe in Might Is Right.
    Worse still, they always project their own mind set onto others, therein lies the trouble, they always imagine someone is here to usurp their throne so they’ve to strike out first !

    hhhhhh

    P.S.
    1] Are you saying that some drivers allegedly killed their victims prove that China would be the next evil empire. :?

    2] How credible is that link ?
    hint] see my reply to canspacey.

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  123. Wally says:
    @Anonymous
    I'm not sure what the authors point is, in this incredibly long and rambling post. Maybe it is just Russia Stronk!

    But it seems like the OP is just reiterating what a lot of people already know. Russia is a legitimate super power on its own. It does not need China to exist, but it needs China to defend itself from the West just as China needs Russia to defend itself against the West too. Only people who spend too much time on the internet care about who is considered a junior member or not when it comes to survival. Even Iran, who is not near as powerful as either Russia or China, is not a junior member because if any of the 3 nations fall the surviving 2 nations will be in big trouble.

    I don't think China sees Europe as THE prize, as Europe also has economic issues as well. China and Russia see an integrated Eurasia as THE prize, as this will ensue a multi-polar world which benefits both nations.

    No doubt prying Europe and especially Germany away from the West is a big goal for both nations, but the real goal is controlling the "Heartland" a la Mackinder. As Mackinder noted, he who controls the "Heartland" controls the world.

    If the West loses control of the "Heartland", controlling the sea lanes will have little value, as it would not be able to stymie trade to Russia or China, just to make it more expensive. So the OBOR is not meant to be a replacement against ocean trade, just insurance that if one artery is cut, another remains open.

    If China-Russia, or sorry Russia - China, is successful in making this connection; the West has no way of controlling either nation.

    Also, lol at quoting Macron with his Grannie wife. He is a total stooge for the West. So of course he is not going to like OBOR.

    was stated:
    “The pace of Russian construction of ice-breakers for year-round operation of this ice route, now greatly mitigated by climate change

    Seriously, is the author really a True Believer in the left’s fake ‘climate change’?

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    • Replies: @Kevin O'Keeffe

    “The pace of Russian construction of ice-breakers for year-round operation of this ice route, now greatly mitigated by climate change”

    Seriously, is the author really a True Believer in the left’s fake ‘climate change’?
     
    Ships are passing through northerly routes, where they were once unable to pass (albeit mainly on a seasonal basis). This is simply a fact, irrespective of one's opinion on the veracity of the whole Global Climate Change narrative.
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  124. denk says:
    @CanSpeccy

    Siberia and the Far East are never part of Russia, they are stolen land just like the North America and Australia are stolen lands
     
    You mean like Tibet, Xinjiang, and Formosa?

    FFS
    TW was part of China before the jp robbed it in 1898 .

    Get this into your thick skull,
    Even tho China claims rightful sovereignty over TW there aint no PLA troops occupying the island and raping TW lass like what the illegit murkkans do in Okinawa./Jeju/Ph.. etc etc/

    BTW,
    Are You saying that cuz the Mongols/Manchus took Tibet/Xinjiang in the 15c so the Czar was entitiled to take Siberia and the anglos to take
    USA/Canada/Hawaii/Puerto Rico/Guam./Diego Garcia/ Okinawa./Jeju/ Oz/NZ……ETC ETC ?

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    • Replies: @CanSpeccy

    Get this into your thick skull
     
    A thick skull is probably an asset, since there clearly something more solid than an idea that you would like to put through my skull.

    Having, in the course of a long life, worked for Chinese, worked with Chinese, taught Chinese, employed Chinese, I can say that, at their best, the Chinese display the best of that which humanity is capable.

    But it is remarkable and sad to see representatives of China, the world's oldest intact empire, hypocritically raging against the atrocities committed by European empires, while defending the ongoing atrocities of the Communist bully boys in Beijing.

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  125. denk says:
    @Malla
    That is not a slave, it is a servant being paid a salary, you fool.

    When the entire India was under British rule,
    Every Indian was a slave, moron.

    May be the Indians think clipping the whitey’s toe nails was an honorable
    profession,’

    hhhhhhh

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    • Replies: @Malla
    Indians under British rule were a million times more free than Chinese under Mao.
    Under British rule there were Indian millionaires owning big mills and hiring British managers. Time to leave commie school and get back to reality.
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  126. denk says:
    @CanSpeccy

    You should know there is a big difference between incorporating with partners and occupying thru stealing and robbing with organized violence.
     
    Yes, tell that to the Tibetans, the Uyghurs, and countless others presently or in the past subject to Chinese ethnic cleansing, or oppression, e.g.:

    The Destruction of Ethnic Identity: The Uyghur People Fight for Freedom in the Shadow of Chinese Oppression

    and

    Uyghur Muslims: Victims of the World’s Largest Ethnic Cleansing.

    Any imbecile can post a link but that proves nuthin my dear !

    Be educated,
    this is what I call real evidence,
    insider info on murkkan sponsored terrorism,

    https://truthandshadows.wordpress.com/2017/06/19/manufactured-migrants/

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  127. @Beckow

    Who says so ?

     

    Based on the last research survey Netherlands has the lowest Russia Approval rating. It is 85% negative, 4% neutral, 11% positive. Beats even fanatically anti-Russia Denmark and Sweden, at 83 and 81 negative views.

    https://s17.postimg.org/r56ivxjn3/russia_approval.png

    I was surprised. A few years ago I did some graduate studies in Rotterdam and the place was sanity central. People were generally skeptical. I agree that the Ukraine-EU referendum showed Dutch as thoughtful people.

    In all EU countries the media is in a silly Russia is a threat and 'everything Russian is evil' phase. Nobody does it better than UK or Germany. And yet, both British and Germans are slightly less anti-Russia than the small northern countries. What is going on?

    No idea where these figures come from.
    Of course, the contiuing anti Russia propaganda has effect, such as accusing Putin of the MH370 disaster, without ever proving anything.
    Many here no longer believe anything our politicians say.
    Nevertheless, I think the Ukraine referendum is more dependable than any poll.
    I never meet anyone who sees Russia as a military threat.

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    • Replies: @Beckow

    the Ukraine referendum is more dependable than any poll

     

    I agree, but that was a more complex issue. I think the round-the-clock propaganda in the West is working. As if they are trying to get people ready for something big. Otherwise, why do it?
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  128. @RadicalCenter
    Yeah, Europeans are standing together alright -- in favor of sharia and subjugation by non-European Muslims. Good thing they stood together and didn't get ripped off by the US.

    Agree with the rest of your observatons, though ;)

    This shows that not all of us approve of Islamisation

    http://nieuws.tpo.nl/2018/01/18/terroristisch-rechts-verzet-laat-onthoofde-pop-moskee-amsterdam-noord/

    A decapitated puppet posed at an Amsterdam mosque

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  129. Che Guava says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    Japanese navy, best in east, also pathetic ship designs are dictated by the occupying power,
     
    Japanese "version" of US DDG Arleigh Burke-class "Congo" and Atago-class, its Japanese "pumped" version of SPY-1 radar and CICS are considered superior to US Navy's. Japanese submarine force is world-class in technology and personnel. Simply, world-class--despite being non-nuclear. It is a complex picture.

    Thanks for reply. Your analysis of ships and boats seems accurate, as for the ships, when I see them, clear reliance on US designs is annoying to me.

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  130. JL says:
    @Greasy William
    why does Andrei hate China so much?

    All Russian military personnel, past and current, that I have ever known are like this. For some reasons I know, and many others I don’t, there is a strong cultural Sinophobia that runs through the Russian armed forces. They seem to have much more respect for, and trust of, their American counterparts. Perhaps this is a good thing (for Russia) as it will provide a counterbalance to the political leadership as it increasingly orients itself towards China economically. On the other hand, it could also serve as an impediment in the event that a true military crisis emerges and the two must fully align to survive.

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    • Replies: @Kiza
    Even if we (other commenters) take your biased and trollish comment seriously, we have to note that Russia/Russian Military find themselves between the rock of Chinese love and the hard place of US love. Yet, we do have confidence that the Russians are big boys and girls and will successfully navigate between those two springs of ethereal love. This may be, if for no other reason then because, the Chinese are the allies (whilst US are choosing to make themselves the enemy) and the Russians do not need to be in love with their allies, only to find a common interest. Therefore, since you reside on the side of the self-declared enemy, you are obliged to perceive the healthy allied scepticism as Sinophobia. As if US trusts all its own “allies” unquestionably and unconditionally.
    , @britishbrainsize1325cclol
    It seems russians are still having nigtmares after centuries of mongol invasian, seems to me they should be sitting pretty after getting their revenge by taking all of siberia.Russians must think chinese are mongols only with a billion more this might explain the russian phobia.
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  131. @polskijoe
    Several problems:

    a)Falling morals heavily, which usually lead to mass immigration
    b)Low fertility rates
    c)Huge Atlantic friendships between US and EU elites.

    I will just focus on the fertility rates.

    Russias fertility rate is 1.7 (and I suspect less for European Slavics)
    Poland is 1.3
    All the Slavic lands, Romania, Hungary, Baltics have also tiny rates.

    Russia is massive and should do anything necessary to increase ferlirty rates (yes investigations into chemicals, vaccines, health to check if they play any role).

    Poland needs to at least raise back to 2 children. Or it will become slowly empty (sorry not a fan of cloning if thats ever possible for humans).

    Countries like Romania, Ukraine will become more empty.
    Baltics may seize to exist with their tiny population.

    Not looking good.

    The killer is liberal capitalism. Growing children had become too expensive. population was growing every year since 1946 then suddenly starting 1992 it started collapsing along with birth rates. Coincidence?

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  132. @Joe Wong
    The three elements you defined West is contradictory to each other and problematic. If point 3 stands, you are saying the West has never exist before 18th century Enlightenment, and you are condemning your ancestors as stupid, uneducated, superstitious, imitative, ignorant, passive, irrational, ritualistic, lazy, chaotic, spontaneous, insane, emotional, dysfunctional, enslaved, despotic, intolerant, corrupt, savage, barbaric, morally regressive and economically stagnant.

    Looking back to history, during the medieval Euopre Dark Age, i.e. before the Renaissance, Europe was indeed an ignorant, superstitious, enslaved, ritualistic, regressive, and barbaric place. Linking such shithole place to highly developed Greek and Roman civilizations required a leap of faith beyond the imagination of make believe Hollywood. If the West claims Greco-Roman heritage, probably the history of the highly develop Greek and Roman civilizations are fake news, hearsays, or manufactured consents in order to have a transition from a degenerated Greco-Roman civilization to degenerated medieval Dark Age Europe possible.

    Christianity is about love, equality, sharing, peace and forgiving. Yet since the European could sail outside of the Mediterranean Sea, the West's real contribution to human civilisation is Land/Resource grab, colonisation of the entire planet. Genocide, massacres of natives of Americas, Australia/New Zealand. Inhuman, despicable Slave trade to sustain those colonies. Perpetration of extreme violence to retain & extract resources from colonies all over the world. And unprecedented mass killings AMONG WHITES THEMSELVES masqueraded as WORLD WARS over spoils of the entire world.

    Then we have HOLLOWCAST as small sideshow, Total Human killings of just last 100 years .... Staggering 180 million human. The West also invented the way to blow up the earth and exterminate all of us into radioactive ashes, making all our existence and civilizations to void and null. It is a total betrayal of Christianity.

    None of the three elements you mentioned fits the West in according to what they behave and what they are, such concept construct is a fraud by masters of delusions, who mistakenly think we don’t know nothing …

    It is capitalism. Didn’t Marx tell that for 300% return there is no crime capitalist won’t hesitate to commit.There certainly was far higher rates of return than 300% hence crimes were in line to returns. Note that the time what you have described Europe was in early stages of capital accumulation. Note that Romans for example would never hurt civilians if those surrendered and offered no resistance. Also note that ancient Greeks and Romans basically considered all humans equal.

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  133. @Joe Wong
    Yes, Russia can be Anglo's natural allies, it only needs Russian to beg hard enough, Boris Yeltsin hasn't begged hard enough, bent low enough and licked the boots bright enough.

    Wrong, Russia and USA can be natural allies when USA is cut to regional status… It will be also interesting to see who will be doing the begging part.

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  134. @Joe Wong
    Perhaps Andrei Martyanov knows deep in his heart that Siberia and the Far East are never part of Russia, they are stolen land just like the North America and Australia are stolen lands.

    I suppose most of what constitutes China now is a stolen land too. And Europe most of it. Life is life. Weak who cannot defend own land from strangers lose it. Deep in your heart you know that Tibet, Inner Mongolia, Xinjian , heck even Sichuan and Guangzhou are not really China. Chinese stole most of what constitutes China now from aboriginal populations.

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  135. @Joe Wong
    Perhaps Andrei Martyanov knows deep in his heart that Siberia and the Far East are never part of Russia, they are stolen land just like the North America and Australia are stolen lands.

    You are a total idiot. Siberia is a stolen land? From whom? Siberia was always virgin land.
    And most of Siberia is still a virgin land where human still do not have a footprint.
    Russians were the least aggressive Slavic tribe who were pushed to utmost north, but they never new that it will be to their benefit, Now they are reaping the benefit of their mild character. The largest area of surface of the earth full of immense riches of natural resources extent of which is still not determined. For Russians it is like gift from God being docile and accommodating.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    And yet Elizabeth ordered the Genocide of the Chukchis.
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  136. Yee says:

    CanSpeccy,

    “Yes, tell that to the Tibetans, the Uyghurs, ”

    Tibet and Xinjiang has been Chinese territory for hundreds of years, thousands on and off in Xinjiang’s case.

    For every separatist, there’re far more patriotic Tibetans and Uyghurs to out number them. Lies of the West changes nothing.

    You wouldn’t believe how many Tibetans still have Mao’s picture on their walls.

    Tibetan children salute passing by army vehicles.

    http://mmbiz.qpic.cn/mmbiz_png/roTTReeZzKUCRWWJQDrDmo8dNk2fJqe1aicG4ZHTI8dUmsJ6g5kmiakltIlYtDwFSuKx6yXM7UVKLVribhGfsPpibA/640?wx_fmt=png&tp=webp&wxfrom=5&wx_lazy=1

    Uyghur villagers helping police hunt down terrorists.

    Elderly Uyghur lady visit Mao’s
    Memorial hall with family.

    http://img.sogoucdn.com/net/a/05/link?appid=100520033&url=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.china.cn%2Fattachement%2Fjpg%2Fsite1000%2F20160121%2Fb8aeed9904ac180a780942.jpg&referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.china.com.cn%2Fnewphoto%2Fnews%2F2016-01%2F21%2Fcontent_37627894_3.htm

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    • LOL: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @CanSpeccy

    Tibetan children salute passing by [Chinese] army [of occupation] vehicles.
     
    LOL
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  137. @Joe Wong
    Chinese submarines are driven by electromagnetic induction propulsion system, no propellers and no vibration from engines or steam turbines. Chinese submarines routinely trial US submarines weeks a time. PLAN said there were sexual abuse screams on the US nuclear submarines all the time, it is really inhuman for the life on US submarines.

    You are a child. Those are simply synchronous motors driven by batteries, certainly not invented by Chinese.
    These are regular diesel powered submarines certainly not invented by Chinese. Germans did have them in WW2 Batteries have to be regularly charged by Diesel motors.
    How come people on this site swallow your idiotic nonsense.
    I do realize that people on this site are not really technical people but even thous should recognize that you are spewing total nonsense.
    Objects in water can be driven by propeller, water stream, or air stream.
    Some Russian torpedoes are driven by airstream

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  138. Yee says:

    Birds, bears, hares and fish, give Russia her fondest wish…

    The whole world knows, Russians’ fondest wish is to be accepted by the West. But until Russia become Canada of Europe, that’s not happening. The author’s prided Russian military is precisely what stands in the way.

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    • Replies: @yurivku
    Chinese troll is something new to me, Go on buddy
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  139. Mr. Hack says:
    @Joe Wong
    Tibet, Xinjiang, Taiwan, Vietnam, and many other places have long history tangled with China culturally and economically in a normal process of building a country; unlike the White invaded and stole the North America and Australia uninvited, unwanted and with atrocity and organized violence. You should know there is a big difference between incorporating with partners and occupying thru stealing and robbing with organized violence.

    You should know there is a big difference between incorporating with partners and occupying thru stealing and robbing with organized violence.

    Other than being an easier proposition for the co-opting invading ‘partner’, I don’t see much of a difference. Local Ukrainian elites were eliminated, cajoled, bribed and even coddled by Russian imperial forces for centuries to become a part of a future Russian empire, and look where that dream is today?…

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  140. Malla says:
    @Joe Wong
    The three elements you defined West is contradictory to each other and problematic. If point 3 stands, you are saying the West has never exist before 18th century Enlightenment, and you are condemning your ancestors as stupid, uneducated, superstitious, imitative, ignorant, passive, irrational, ritualistic, lazy, chaotic, spontaneous, insane, emotional, dysfunctional, enslaved, despotic, intolerant, corrupt, savage, barbaric, morally regressive and economically stagnant.

    Looking back to history, during the medieval Euopre Dark Age, i.e. before the Renaissance, Europe was indeed an ignorant, superstitious, enslaved, ritualistic, regressive, and barbaric place. Linking such shithole place to highly developed Greek and Roman civilizations required a leap of faith beyond the imagination of make believe Hollywood. If the West claims Greco-Roman heritage, probably the history of the highly develop Greek and Roman civilizations are fake news, hearsays, or manufactured consents in order to have a transition from a degenerated Greco-Roman civilization to degenerated medieval Dark Age Europe possible.

    Christianity is about love, equality, sharing, peace and forgiving. Yet since the European could sail outside of the Mediterranean Sea, the West's real contribution to human civilisation is Land/Resource grab, colonisation of the entire planet. Genocide, massacres of natives of Americas, Australia/New Zealand. Inhuman, despicable Slave trade to sustain those colonies. Perpetration of extreme violence to retain & extract resources from colonies all over the world. And unprecedented mass killings AMONG WHITES THEMSELVES masqueraded as WORLD WARS over spoils of the entire world.

    Then we have HOLLOWCAST as small sideshow, Total Human killings of just last 100 years .... Staggering 180 million human. The West also invented the way to blow up the earth and exterminate all of us into radioactive ashes, making all our existence and civilizations to void and null. It is a total betrayal of Christianity.

    None of the three elements you mentioned fits the West in according to what they behave and what they are, such concept construct is a fraud by masters of delusions, who mistakenly think we don’t know nothing …

    Europe was indeed an ignorant, superstitious, enslaved, ritualistic, regressive, and barbaric place.

    So was most of the world. Indeed many other parts of the world was even worse. In many ways Medieval Europe was more advanced then other parts of the world.

    Yet since the European could sail outside of the Mediterranean Sea, the West’s real contribution to human civilisation is Land/Resource grab, colonisation of the entire planet. Genocide, massacres of natives of Americas, Australia/New Zealand. Inhuman, despicable Slave trade to sustain those colonies. Perpetration of extreme violence to retain & extract resources from colonies all over the world.

    Take you communist propaganda elsewhere. Yes bad things were done but a lot more good things done as well by European colonization.

    Then we have HOLLOWCAST as small sideshow, Total Human killings of just last 100 years …. Staggering 180 million human.

    The holocaust is disputed. Let us talk about how many millions Communism killed.

    The West also invented the way to blow up the earth and exterminate all of us into radioactive ashes, making all our existence and civilizations to void and null. It is a total betrayal of Christianity.

    And the rest of the world wants that technology too. The rest of the world shameless uses the technology of the west but will keep on hating on the west. Such shameless behaviour is beyond disgust.

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  141. Joe Wong says:

    You have forgotten to mention Dalai Lama and Tibetan self-immolation stories too. Uyghur ISIS and Dalai Lama clique are CIA and MI6 creations for their eternal ‘God-fearing’ morally defunct evil ‘imperialist’ conquest. They are the evidence why the Anglo is the dark side of humanity.

    Fabricating narrative in accordance with their evil minds is Anglo’s Forte, racism is their creation, no one is surprised they are creating fake news to cause chaos around the world.

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    • Replies: @Malla

    Uyghur ISIS and Dalai Lama clique are CIA and MI6 creations
     
    Just like black 'revolutionaries' in Angola, Rhodesia and Mozambique were communist creations supported by Communist Chinese and the Soviets with weapons and training.
    , @CanSpeccy

    Uyghur ... are CIA and MI6
     
    Yeah, 11 million of them invented by the CIA and MI6. And they look like this, which is why the Commie imperialists in Beijing are flooding NW China with Han settlers.

    Joe, your doing a great job deconstructing Chinese Communist Imperialist propaganda.

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  142. @denk

    I wrote for years now that Russia and US are natural allies, it is too bad that American “elites” are, for the most part, dumb as a stump
     
    Too bad !
    The anglos dont really consider slavs real whiteys.

    murikka has a G2 partner now.
    In case you havent noticed, its no more Asia-Pacific,
    The emperor has decree that from now on its the Indo-Pacific.
    The Indians are in cloud nine at the moment. !

    hhhh

    Too bad ! The anglos dont really consider slavs real whiteys.

    I think those “Anglos” who do not consider Slavs as “whiteys” better check their current “whitey” status–doesn’t look white to me. But that is beyond the point, the issue at hand is could “Anglos” remain European in essence, if not–they are done. So far, I see very few redeeming factors in all that.

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    • Replies: @denk
    The anglos keep electing globalist who orchestrate white genocide abroad and at home, well, they get the govn they deserve.
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  143. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    Sounds like hype
     
    Nope, sounds like ignorance on your part and a typical CNN-money or Wall Street economic "education".

    https://www.rbth.com/business/2017/08/24/how-boeing-and-airbus-use-russias-expertise-to-develop-their-airplanes_827604

    Here is just a little taste. But ask yourself a question what is common (and crucially a lot) between B-787 and MC-21? And why it is so?

    Now, in terms of modern combat aviation, which is very closely related in many manufacturing and even some design aspects to commercial--yeah, sure try to impress Russia with F-22 or F-35. In conclusion, MC-21 is going into production next year primarily for one reason--to remove obsolete second-hand junk from Boeing and Airbus (737s and 320s) Russia was forced to buy in 1990s-early 2000s. It is primarily domestic aircraft and its international prospects are secondary considerations. Yet, MC-21 is a state-of-the-art aircraft which continues Soviet/Russian very long tradition of some excellent commercial aircraft.

    It seems you have two arguments to support the claim that commercial aviation technology in Russia is world class.

    1) Russian military aviation technology is world class and since there are similarities between military and civilian aviation, Russia’s commercial aviation tech should also be world class.

    2) In the near future, Russia will manufacture a narrow body airliner that is world class. Even though it may not sell abroad, it’s still world class. Besides, exports were a secondary consideration.

    My response to 1): Just because there are some similarities between a military plane and commercial airliner doesn’t lend much credence to your claim about commercial aviation in Russia as cutting edge.

    To 2): Just because you declare repeatedly that the industry is world class doesn’t mean it is. A poor showing in export markets for the MC-21 (which you seem to already anticipate) is evidence that Russia’s commercial aviation technology is inferior to counterparts.

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    • Replies: @Avery
    {A poor showing in export markets for the MC-21 (which you seem to already anticipate) is evidence that Russia’s commercial aviation technology is inferior to counterparts.}

    Not necessarily, because technological parity, inferiority, or superiority does not necessarily predict or guarantee commercial success. I don't know about aviation technology, but I know of lots of examples in computer industries where a better technology just did not gain commercial traction.

    Boeing and Airbus have been in the commercial aviation business for a long time.
    They have a solid reputation of producing excellent, cutting edge aircraft.
    And they are not sitting on their laurels.
    Russians and Chinese have no experience in commercial/consumer markets.
    Their own internal markets also have tremendous (bad) influence on their mindset.

    West has had stiff competition for consumer products for decades: customers expect price&quality.
    Russia has the legacy of USSR, where people had to buy whatever (junk) was produced by the State: there was no choice.

    So Russia will probably find some niche markets for its commercial aircraft, but it will find it very tough to compete with Boeing or Airbus head-to-head. Same with the China.
    , @Andrei Martyanov

    Just because you declare repeatedly that the industry is world class doesn’t mean it is.
     
    Well, it does. Especially when one considers a very simple fact that I am US commercial aerospace industry insider and am well acquainted with ins and outs of it. So, how to put--you may pretend to rationalize whatever you want but unless you deals with what drives commercial aviation, you cannot have any competent opinion on any of this issues other that reading it from crappy "economic" magazines. And that is why:

    A poor showing in export markets for the MC-21 (which you seem to already anticipate) is evidence that Russia’s commercial aviation technology is inferior to counterparts.
     
    This phrase, which is a distilled BS, shows how detached you are from anything professional, here are the reasons why:

    1. MC-21 can not have any "showing" in markets precisely for it being right now in a third phase of flight testing for 001, other 5 test flight aircraft, including continuous testing of static air frame, are either ready or getting ready.

    2. If you think that 175 firm prepaid orders plus another around 180 options (so, around 350 aircraft for starters--not too shabby), many of them in transition to firm, by Russian carriers are not "market" then you are obviously have no idea what are you talking about, but that was clear from the get go.

    3. Again, educate yourself on Soviet commercial aviation before trying to pretend that you have a clue. That is not to mention that you didn't answer my question about specific similarity between B-787 and MC-21. I will disclose this now: it is a "black wing", which is a carbon-fiber vacuum infused wing, which, in the class of narrow body mid-range aircraft class exists only on MC-21. B-787 is the other one, albeit in a long range category.

    I am not going to waste anymore time explaining to you what it means to design a wing, its complex mechanics and then produce it out composites, including wing-to-body , including composite empennage. But if you didn't know, much of the wing--the most complex integral part of aircraft--for B 787 was developed in... Moscow. Get educated and don't try to impress anyone here with "market" BS. Russian airspace industry is one of the leaders in commercial aviation and is the leader in military one. I am not going to talk here about titanium and what it takes to work on it. But in general, have a nice life.
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  144. @Pisa2016
    Completely untrue, since most cities don't have coastal access, so they would have to truck -> sea ->truck instead of just rail with no transfers between two cities

    In a way you are correct. But I was speaking conceptually about long distances.
    I did not consider loading and unloading. I also did not talk about influence of type and volume of transferred material. (Sometime I am lazy and I do not like to write a long comment)
    Naturally loading and unloading is a complex process and cost of it is a significant part of cost of the product.

    Bulk materials, liquids. and liquefied, gases will probably stay in Ship transfer domain for a long time.
    But gods, non perishable and perishable will be more economically transferred by trains.

    Long long time ago I was working on feasibility study of containerization of transfer of Goods.
    The idea was that to make a wagons flatbed with attachment fitting the container.
    Also to design trailers for trucks to fit the same container. In this case unloading of wagons would one simple move by train, The cost savings would be immense.

    I am quite confident that this idea will be implemented here on silk road.

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  145. @German_reader

    With Europe slowly coming to some understanding of the dead end of its cultural and economic policies
     
    Unfortunately it's far from clear imo that this is indeed happening. But very interesting piece, thanks.

    Unfortunately it’s far from clear imo that this is indeed happening.

    I’ll give you one example: IIRC in 2007 Bundestag passed the law which forbade any German industrial plant which is in any way connected to Germany’s military-industrial complex (and that is rather a large number) to have less than 51% of German capital. No matter how one looks at it, but that pretty much covers most of metallurgy, machine-building complex and ship-building. Smart move. Now, if a treasonous force such as Greens could be thrown out of Germany’s political life… but…

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    • Replies: @German_reader

    Now, if a treasonous force such as Greens could be thrown out of Germany’s political life… but…
     
    Unfortunately that's a very large but, much of the German bourgeoisie is in thrall to postnational delusions. Hard power calculations (e.g. as in your example above measures to preserve the country's industrial base, keeping energy supplies stable, or, very important imo, keeping out unassimilable foreigners) are alien to their way of thought, they take their security and relative prosperity for granted and think it's a natural state of affairs, so they're unable to even imagine the potential consequences of their deluded virtue-signaling. Real decadence imo, and I doubt people can be shocked out of it before it's too late.
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  146. @Pisa2016
    Completely untrue, since most cities don't have coastal access, so they would have to truck -> sea ->truck instead of just rail with no transfers between two cities

    I am quite confident that this idea will be implemented here on Silk Road.
    I am also imagining that each participating country will have its own trains,

    Continuation.

    Two gas turbines drive today’s modern trains. These types are also used for helicopters. I was working at Pratt & Whitney redesigning prototype of this engine for testing purposes. Shaft of this engine is running at 30 thousand RPM. Specifications for bearings of this engine are several pages. Nobody else can make these bearing than SKF.
    Lubrication and cooling apparatus is twice as large as turbine itself.

    Anyway I do envisage that each participating country will have its own trains with its own wagons, and will have its own loading and unloading system.
    But there also must be some standardization also.
    I also presume that will be two line system. I do also presume that this system will have a ground priority. This means that in every existing crossing by road or rail must be on bridge.
    There will be lots of work to be done in Europe.

    BTW. I did walk on stairs of Pisa straight to the top.
    You cant do it anymore

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  147. @polskijoe
    Europe is still heavily dependant on USA. Thats why a large portion of EU elites
    side with either neoliberalism or neoconservativism.

    Certain European countries have massive debt. What happens if this "relationship" is stopped?

    UK debt: 7.8 trillion
    France: 5.4 trillion
    Germany: 5.1 trillion
    Netherlands: 4.3 trillion
    Luxembourg (lol): 4 trillion debt!

    If the EU breaks, I see the Visegrad countries siding more with US then Russia.
    They might think the US will protect them from EU and Russia.
    Boy I dont want allies like Estonia or West Ukraine.

    Visegrad group is split, anyway:
    Czechs are more liberal, pro Zionist, less religious, national minded
    Slovakia: they are so quiet I cant comment.
    Poland: proEU or proNATO thing going. No talking with Russia, just spread the Applebaum, Soros, or Mccain type propaganda. Most religious.
    Hungary: seems the most balanced between them.

    If the EU breaks, I see the Visegrad countries siding more with US then Russia.

    Debatable at best, although by all means not impossible. But if Visegrad Group formalizes itself as military-political-economic alliance, which is definitely possible at some point of time, let’s remember one teeny-weeny fact, which is usually completely omitted in any “Western” considerations. Since the collapse of the Warsaw Pact Visegrad nations, especially Poland, were literally pumped with cheap or highly privileged credit and some aid from NATO. It was to make from them a shiny facade for new “democracies”. 2020 is the time, however, when a lot of that credit is due to be paid back. We are talking here about very not-trivial sums. This is a major geopolitical factor. Russia, on the other hand, doesn’t really care that much about Visegrad affiliation, since Russia’s main economic interest in Europe are Germany and Netherlands. Once Nord Stream II is ready, well, as events with Ust-Luga Port and bypassing of Baltic States demonstrates beautifully–Russians are not interested, and act in a very healthy economically selfish manner. So, it is not up to Russians what affiliation Visegrad Group will choose and Russians are content with that.

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    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
    You are absolutely correct. In a plain language Russia does not give a shit.
    But Russia reciprocates if it is approached like as in case of Hungary.
    No country likes dictates from other country or institution like it was under Soviet rule or like it is now under Brussels rule.
    Euro and Nato inevitably will fall apart. It is only question of time.
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  148. Yee says:

    OBOR hasn’t started for real yet, and it won’t in any hurry. It’s just a seed planted at the moment. Because, like a commenter above said, the US will be pulling “loose threads” along the way, and China is not strong enough to stable the far away loose threads. Trying to do the impossible will bring down the whole game.

    Most realistic part is Southeast Asia, that’s where China is putting most efforts. Europe is waaaay down on the list, because not only the US, but also Russia will be pulling loose threads.

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    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
    OBOR in some Slavic languages means Giant.

    Subnote.
    Austrians have rail making trains and developed process to lay down rails totally without any labor participation. Few systems of this kind can lay down all silk road in no time.
    , @TT
    OBOR is too much uncertainty for Russia backyards that are mostly land locked and highly relied or controlled by Russia. Now these neighbors resources will flow out directly at better price, or become competitors, and goods more competitive are coming in replacing Russia's. That's bad news for Russia. A too strong China is a bigger threat than further away US to Russia, who have taken so much lands from China during Soviet time.
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  149. Avery says:
    @Anonymous
    It seems you have two arguments to support the claim that commercial aviation technology in Russia is world class.

    1) Russian military aviation technology is world class and since there are similarities between military and civilian aviation, Russia's commercial aviation tech should also be world class.

    2) In the near future, Russia will manufacture a narrow body airliner that is world class. Even though it may not sell abroad, it's still world class. Besides, exports were a secondary consideration.

    My response to 1): Just because there are some similarities between a military plane and commercial airliner doesn't lend much credence to your claim about commercial aviation in Russia as cutting edge.

    To 2): Just because you declare repeatedly that the industry is world class doesn't mean it is. A poor showing in export markets for the MC-21 (which you seem to already anticipate) is evidence that Russia's commercial aviation technology is inferior to counterparts.

    {A poor showing in export markets for the MC-21 (which you seem to already anticipate) is evidence that Russia’s commercial aviation technology is inferior to counterparts.}

    Not necessarily, because technological parity, inferiority, or superiority does not necessarily predict or guarantee commercial success. I don’t know about aviation technology, but I know of lots of examples in computer industries where a better technology just did not gain commercial traction.

    Boeing and Airbus have been in the commercial aviation business for a long time.
    They have a solid reputation of producing excellent, cutting edge aircraft.
    And they are not sitting on their laurels.
    Russians and Chinese have no experience in commercial/consumer markets.
    Their own internal markets also have tremendous (bad) influence on their mindset.

    West has had stiff competition for consumer products for decades: customers expect price&quality.
    Russia has the legacy of USSR, where people had to buy whatever (junk) was produced by the State: there was no choice.

    So Russia will probably find some niche markets for its commercial aircraft, but it will find it very tough to compete with Boeing or Airbus head-to-head. Same with the China.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Joe Wong
    Please refrain from comparing Russia or USA to China, Russia and USA are declining while China is rising. Russian and American like to claim they are the world class or the world best by bad mouthing China, but has no substance to support their claim as demonstrated by the Russian bloggers here, who have a lot rhetoric.

    Even China is surpassing Russian and American in aerospace technologies, the Russian and American are still dwelling in the 50s to claim their superiority.

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  150. @Andrei Martyanov

    If the EU breaks, I see the Visegrad countries siding more with US then Russia.
     
    Debatable at best, although by all means not impossible. But if Visegrad Group formalizes itself as military-political-economic alliance, which is definitely possible at some point of time, let's remember one teeny-weeny fact, which is usually completely omitted in any "Western" considerations. Since the collapse of the Warsaw Pact Visegrad nations, especially Poland, were literally pumped with cheap or highly privileged credit and some aid from NATO. It was to make from them a shiny facade for new "democracies". 2020 is the time, however, when a lot of that credit is due to be paid back. We are talking here about very not-trivial sums. This is a major geopolitical factor. Russia, on the other hand, doesn't really care that much about Visegrad affiliation, since Russia's main economic interest in Europe are Germany and Netherlands. Once Nord Stream II is ready, well, as events with Ust-Luga Port and bypassing of Baltic States demonstrates beautifully--Russians are not interested, and act in a very healthy economically selfish manner. So, it is not up to Russians what affiliation Visegrad Group will choose and Russians are content with that.

    You are absolutely correct. In a plain language Russia does not give a shit.
    But Russia reciprocates if it is approached like as in case of Hungary.
    No country likes dictates from other country or institution like it was under Soviet rule or like it is now under Brussels rule.
    Euro and Nato inevitably will fall apart. It is only question of time.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
    Agree. But majority of people are absolutely not in sync with a gigantic and rather fast change in MOs of major geopolitical players. Well, some US law-makers call Russia Soviet Union still.
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  151. @Yee
    OBOR hasn't started for real yet, and it won't in any hurry. It's just a seed planted at the moment. Because, like a commenter above said, the US will be pulling "loose threads" along the way, and China is not strong enough to stable the far away loose threads. Trying to do the impossible will bring down the whole game.

    Most realistic part is Southeast Asia, that's where China is putting most efforts. Europe is waaaay down on the list, because not only the US, but also Russia will be pulling loose threads.

    OBOR in some Slavic languages means Giant.

    Subnote.
    Austrians have rail making trains and developed process to lay down rails totally without any labor participation. Few systems of this kind can lay down all silk road in no time.

    Read More
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  152. @Anonymous
    It seems you have two arguments to support the claim that commercial aviation technology in Russia is world class.

    1) Russian military aviation technology is world class and since there are similarities between military and civilian aviation, Russia's commercial aviation tech should also be world class.

    2) In the near future, Russia will manufacture a narrow body airliner that is world class. Even though it may not sell abroad, it's still world class. Besides, exports were a secondary consideration.

    My response to 1): Just because there are some similarities between a military plane and commercial airliner doesn't lend much credence to your claim about commercial aviation in Russia as cutting edge.

    To 2): Just because you declare repeatedly that the industry is world class doesn't mean it is. A poor showing in export markets for the MC-21 (which you seem to already anticipate) is evidence that Russia's commercial aviation technology is inferior to counterparts.

    Just because you declare repeatedly that the industry is world class doesn’t mean it is.

    Well, it does. Especially when one considers a very simple fact that I am US commercial aerospace industry insider and am well acquainted with ins and outs of it. So, how to put–you may pretend to rationalize whatever you want but unless you deals with what drives commercial aviation, you cannot have any competent opinion on any of this issues other that reading it from crappy “economic” magazines. And that is why:

    A poor showing in export markets for the MC-21 (which you seem to already anticipate) is evidence that Russia’s commercial aviation technology is inferior to counterparts.

    This phrase, which is a distilled BS, shows how detached you are from anything professional, here are the reasons why:

    1. MC-21 can not have any “showing” in markets precisely for it being right now in a third phase of flight testing for 001, other 5 test flight aircraft, including continuous testing of static air frame, are either ready or getting ready.

    2. If you think that 175 firm prepaid orders plus another around 180 options (so, around 350 aircraft for starters–not too shabby), many of them in transition to firm, by Russian carriers are not “market” then you are obviously have no idea what are you talking about, but that was clear from the get go.

    3. Again, educate yourself on Soviet commercial aviation before trying to pretend that you have a clue. That is not to mention that you didn’t answer my question about specific similarity between B-787 and MC-21. I will disclose this now: it is a “black wing”, which is a carbon-fiber vacuum infused wing, which, in the class of narrow body mid-range aircraft class exists only on MC-21. B-787 is the other one, albeit in a long range category.

    I am not going to waste anymore time explaining to you what it means to design a wing, its complex mechanics and then produce it out composites, including wing-to-body , including composite empennage. But if you didn’t know, much of the wing–the most complex integral part of aircraft–for B 787 was developed in… Moscow. Get educated and don’t try to impress anyone here with “market” BS. Russian airspace industry is one of the leaders in commercial aviation and is the leader in military one. I am not going to talk here about titanium and what it takes to work on it. But in general, have a nice life.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Joe Wong
    Funny, Russians always say "I am not going to waste anymore time explaining to you" my words is final, and I have no patience for debate. It seems the Russian and the Anglo are alike, both of them insist "my words must be taken as given truth." If you don't then bombing, killing and waterboarding is the treatment until you do, by the way bombing, killing and waterboarding is with good intention the Russian and the American said.
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  153. Pisa2016 says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    Sounds like hype
     
    Nope, sounds like ignorance on your part and a typical CNN-money or Wall Street economic "education".

    https://www.rbth.com/business/2017/08/24/how-boeing-and-airbus-use-russias-expertise-to-develop-their-airplanes_827604

    Here is just a little taste. But ask yourself a question what is common (and crucially a lot) between B-787 and MC-21? And why it is so?

    Now, in terms of modern combat aviation, which is very closely related in many manufacturing and even some design aspects to commercial--yeah, sure try to impress Russia with F-22 or F-35. In conclusion, MC-21 is going into production next year primarily for one reason--to remove obsolete second-hand junk from Boeing and Airbus (737s and 320s) Russia was forced to buy in 1990s-early 2000s. It is primarily domestic aircraft and its international prospects are secondary considerations. Yet, MC-21 is a state-of-the-art aircraft which continues Soviet/Russian very long tradition of some excellent commercial aircraft.

    [Quote]https://www.rbth.com/business/2017/08/24/how-boeing-and-airbus-use-russias-expertise-to-develop-their-airplanes_827604

    Here is just a little taste. But ask yourself a question what is common (and crucially a lot) between B-787 and MC-21? And why it is so?[/quote]

    This is meaningless since boeing has research and development centers in china, india etc…

    http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/business/2010-10/21/content_11440455.htm

    Just because boeing has r&d in Russia doesn’t mean the mc-21 is as good as a boeing 787

    The mc-21 hasn’t even passed FAA certifications and has no overseas orders, they don’t even have verified specs

    Read More
    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    Just because boeing has r&d in Russia doesn’t mean the mc-21 is as good as a boeing 787
     
    Boeing's engineering office in Moscow is the largest Boeing's operation abroad. But that is beyond the point:

    This is meaningless since boeing has research and development centers in china, india etc…
     
    No it is not, once one have a professional opinion of Chinese commercial and military aviation--it is grossly sub par. At best--it is mediocre.

    The mc-21 hasn’t even passed FAA certifications and has no overseas orders, they don’t even have verified specs
     
    Again, you want to tell fairy tales about "overseas orders", try college girls from your neighborhood. Just to illustrate to you all this "markets" BS. Educate yourself for warmup with this:

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/beltway/2011/02/28/how-boeing-won-the-tanker-war/#285079263d49

    I know what was happening in the State of Washington and how Congress got involved in a rather scandalous reversal of contract with EADS.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/25/business/25tanker.html

    Really, it is becoming tiresome with you and other anonymous fanboys trying to preach here "markets" gospel not understanding even basics. So, in order for me not to waste time answering utterly ignorant questions and statements:

    Airspace is one of those very few enclosed technological cycles which defines national power. Currently, there are only three nations and one conglomerate (EU) which can, completely out of own resources, R&D, design and built modern commercial and combat aircraft. These nations are:

    1. USA
    2. Russia
    3. China, which is not in the same league. When it will get there--I will inform everyone here.

    In general, any nation defends its aerospace market and rightly so. Except, of course, Russia of 1990s (for obvious reasons) and China which does not and cannot produce competitive commercial aircraft design. But that is another matter altogether.
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  154. @Ilyana_Rozumova
    You are absolutely correct. In a plain language Russia does not give a shit.
    But Russia reciprocates if it is approached like as in case of Hungary.
    No country likes dictates from other country or institution like it was under Soviet rule or like it is now under Brussels rule.
    Euro and Nato inevitably will fall apart. It is only question of time.

    Agree. But majority of people are absolutely not in sync with a gigantic and rather fast change in MOs of major geopolitical players. Well, some US law-makers call Russia Soviet Union still.

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    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
    Correct! But here is a fact. Russians always remembered and always will remember their 26 million dead in WW3. Their attention to military and weapons progress have never wavered, and it will never waiver..
    So maybe of couple of years under Yeltsin it moved slightly behind in sequence of priorities , but that was quickly re- compensated under Putin.
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  155. Pisa2016 says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    Any idiot knows that land based platforms far out range sea platforms
     
    I think you are right, only idiots know that, educated people know that actual weapons of war, that is by implications non-nuclear (plus nuclear tipped), are regulated by still alive, however barely, INF Treaty which specifically forbids land-based weapons (platforms, in your lingo?) thus making range between 500 to 5,500 kilometers verboten for land-based "platforms". Yet, currently, the most long range both anti-shipping and TLAM weapons which are not only actual weapons but are constantly used in the conflicts are precisely NON-land based and which are most long range are carried by ships, submarines and aircraft. Is that what you meant to say? ;-)) Just FYI, the range of 3M14 is officially 2500 kilometers, of X-101 5,500 kilometers. Yes, I also never heard of any conventional war being fought with strategic ballistic missiles.

    Navy’s are by and far obsolete
     
    LOL, sure and the cars will become obsolete and go out of business any minute now. Let me show you something:

    https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-n9gdpi6S2fY/WOlUqwPrLEI/AAAAAAAACkg/vklJdrwf7SMQ1gy24Sx7IsI_Wg7oFmkagCLcB/s1600/Borei%2BClass%2BSubmarine.jpg

    This is "obsolete" SSBN of Project 955, which is in the "obsolete" Russian Navy and it is one of the major factors which prevents this current world from going completely mad--it is called MAD.

    Your entire reply is meaningless rhetoric, Inf is irrelevant because Russia has broken the treaty, and it never applied to countries other than the us and Russia

    You have never addressed how surface ships are supposed to deal with land launched intermediate range ramjets or ICBMs

    Numerous military strategists have already said that a naval war between the us and china would lead to sea denial for both sides google “A2/AD”

    Likewise nuclear war mentions are meaningless rhetoric.

    Any US ship would be blown away before they can get in range to strike china land targets.

    Read More
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  156. The gradually escalating ratio of noise to signal comments is making me wonder if Unz comments have finally merited astroturfing from the usual actors. If so, hello there, Correct The Record!

    Read More
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  157. @Twodees Partain
    The russophobia is a media construct, and "a mile wide and an inch deep" is how it should be viewed. All of it would disappear overnight with a change in the media's messages. The extent to which a person would believe that it is real is proportional to that person's reliance on the msm for his worldview.

    Agreed.

    “I ain’t got nuthin against them Russians. No Russian ever called me deplorable”.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
    Right on brother!
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  158. @Robert Magill

    The name of the Chinese game is Europe. Without Europe, the One Belt and Road initiative becomes merely an expansion into large but mostly poor markets in Asia
     
    Game over! A shipment now sent from London goes to Beijing directly by rail.

     China is also building naval bases in Pakistan, which is prudent once one considers that a large portion of this “Road” passing through the Indian Ocean.
     
    Overlooked is the Chinese base at Djibouti now under construction. Very strategic indeed.

     In plain language, in the open ocean the US Navy can and, most likely, will sink the Chinese Navy and that will mean the end of the Road, leaving only the Belt to China.

     

    With all the sats following the carriers second by second, odds are the ss missles would take less than an hour to sink Mahan's theory for good.

    Also remember they’ve taken over a big container port in Sri Lanka (99 year lease), bang on the Cape of Good Hope route, and bought control of Piraeus, main port in Greece.

    Read More
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  159. @Pisa2016
    [Quote]https://www.rbth.com/business/2017/08/24/how-boeing-and-airbus-use-russias-expertise-to-develop-their-airplanes_827604

    Here is just a little taste. But ask yourself a question what is common (and crucially a lot) between B-787 and MC-21? And why it is so?[/quote]

    This is meaningless since boeing has research and development centers in china, india etc...

    http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/business/2010-10/21/content_11440455.htm

    Just because boeing has r&d in Russia doesn't mean the mc-21 is as good as a boeing 787

    The mc-21 hasn't even passed FAA certifications and has no overseas orders, they don't even have verified specs

    Just because boeing has r&d in Russia doesn’t mean the mc-21 is as good as a boeing 787

    Boeing’s engineering office in Moscow is the largest Boeing’s operation abroad. But that is beyond the point:

    This is meaningless since boeing has research and development centers in china, india etc…

    No it is not, once one have a professional opinion of Chinese commercial and military aviation–it is grossly sub par. At best–it is mediocre.

    The mc-21 hasn’t even passed FAA certifications and has no overseas orders, they don’t even have verified specs

    Again, you want to tell fairy tales about “overseas orders”, try college girls from your neighborhood. Just to illustrate to you all this “markets” BS. Educate yourself for warmup with this:

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/beltway/2011/02/28/how-boeing-won-the-tanker-war/#285079263d49

    I know what was happening in the State of Washington and how Congress got involved in a rather scandalous reversal of contract with EADS.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/25/business/25tanker.html

    Really, it is becoming tiresome with you and other anonymous fanboys trying to preach here “markets” gospel not understanding even basics. So, in order for me not to waste time answering utterly ignorant questions and statements:

    Airspace is one of those very few enclosed technological cycles which defines national power. Currently, there are only three nations and one conglomerate (EU) which can, completely out of own resources, R&D, design and built modern commercial and combat aircraft. These nations are:

    1. USA
    2. Russia
    3. China, which is not in the same league. When it will get there–I will inform everyone here.

    In general, any nation defends its aerospace market and rightly so. Except, of course, Russia of 1990s (for obvious reasons) and China which does not and cannot produce competitive commercial aircraft design. But that is another matter altogether.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    What about France, India and Sweden ?
    Moreover, the USA JSF still is unable to fly.
    , @Joe Wong
    Get rid of Putin, and get the Goldman Sachs and Co. back in again to give Russia another shock therapy modernization treatment, they will help Russian to get MC-21 pass FAA certification. American and Russian are natural allies, aren't they? The American won't screw the Russian, right?
    , @FB

    '...Airspace is one of those very few enclosed technological cycles which defines national power...'
     
    You meant to say aerospace...but nevertheless this point is true...

    Today military power hinges largely on aviation and space capability...Here Russia is on a par with the US and pulling ahead due to a degradation of US higher education in technical fields...

    In the commercial sector, aviation is also a huge and growing aspect of economic power...now dominated by the US and Europe...with Russia trying to make a comeback...


    '...In general, any nation defends its aerospace market and rightly so...'
     
    This is a very important point also...

    The Western market for passenger jets has been a slammed door for Russia since day one...for strictly political reasons...not for any objective measure of quality or value...

    This was the case of course even during the cold war...but then Russia had a huge presence in civil aviation in the world due to its client states...

    Post USSR this market does not exist for Russian aviation...the global market for passenger jets has been dominated by the duopoly of Boeing and Airbus for the simple reason that the customers have been airlines from the West and Western client states around the world...

    The West has up until recently accounted for the dominant share of air travel...but people in poor countries are beginning to fly too...

    This means a whole new world is opening up in the civilian aviation sector...What happens when five billion Chinese, Indians and Africans are all flying around as much as Europeans and Americans...?

    The days of the West's ownership of global air transport are clearly numbered...

    The Western media is full of clown 'analysts' who say things like the new Russian-Chinese widebody airplane are going to flop...and they point to Russia's Ilyushin Il96 as having 'failed' against the Airbus A340...

    But the reality is that the Il96 is just as good, if not better, than any Boeing or Airbus widebody...and the only reason no one has been buying it [except Cuba] is for the fact that the airline industry is not some 'free' market...

    It is a market held in the iron grip of politics...no Western country is going to buy Russian airplanes...that is like saying that the president of Ford is going to drive a Chevrolet...

    But like I said...the billions of future air passengers is a different story...even China itself is a huge market...at one point Africa with its 1.5 billion people today...and probably 3 billion in 20 years...is not going to mind buying Russian airplanes...in fact they may prefer to do just that...

    We recall that Russia has a long and proud aviation history...the first successful passenger jet in the world was the Russian Tupolev Tu104...and the only passenger jet in the world's skies between the years 1956 to 1958...


    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/15/Aeroflot_Tupolev_Tu-104B_at_Arlanda%2C_July_1972.jpg

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  160. @Andrei Martyanov

    Just because boeing has r&d in Russia doesn’t mean the mc-21 is as good as a boeing 787
     
    Boeing's engineering office in Moscow is the largest Boeing's operation abroad. But that is beyond the point:

    This is meaningless since boeing has research and development centers in china, india etc…
     
    No it is not, once one have a professional opinion of Chinese commercial and military aviation--it is grossly sub par. At best--it is mediocre.

    The mc-21 hasn’t even passed FAA certifications and has no overseas orders, they don’t even have verified specs
     
    Again, you want to tell fairy tales about "overseas orders", try college girls from your neighborhood. Just to illustrate to you all this "markets" BS. Educate yourself for warmup with this:

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/beltway/2011/02/28/how-boeing-won-the-tanker-war/#285079263d49

    I know what was happening in the State of Washington and how Congress got involved in a rather scandalous reversal of contract with EADS.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/25/business/25tanker.html

    Really, it is becoming tiresome with you and other anonymous fanboys trying to preach here "markets" gospel not understanding even basics. So, in order for me not to waste time answering utterly ignorant questions and statements:

    Airspace is one of those very few enclosed technological cycles which defines national power. Currently, there are only three nations and one conglomerate (EU) which can, completely out of own resources, R&D, design and built modern commercial and combat aircraft. These nations are:

    1. USA
    2. Russia
    3. China, which is not in the same league. When it will get there--I will inform everyone here.

    In general, any nation defends its aerospace market and rightly so. Except, of course, Russia of 1990s (for obvious reasons) and China which does not and cannot produce competitive commercial aircraft design. But that is another matter altogether.

    What about France, India and Sweden ?
    Moreover, the USA JSF still is unable to fly.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    What about France, India and Sweden ?
     
    Neither of them, with the exception of France who is a very big shot in Airbus, which is EU project, have viable commercial aviation program. Gripen is a superb fighter but that is the extent of current Swedish aerospace capability. India, IIRC, recently ran into the, yet again, troubles with their Tejas. India flies mostly Soviet/Russian combat jets and will likely fly in addition Rafale. Commercially, it is all two big ones. Many people mention Embraer (just to illustrate)--but in essence it is an air frame manufacturer, everything else, from avionics to engines is foreign. It cannot be otherwise--Brazil doesn't produce these crucial elements and instead of developing them (doubtful, but still) it allows foreign players to equip Embraers primarily to make its entrance into international market easier. Very much along the lines of SSJ idea, with a major exception for a Saturn-Snecma engines.
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  161. @Robert Magill

    The name of the Chinese game is Europe. Without Europe, the One Belt and Road initiative becomes merely an expansion into large but mostly poor markets in Asia
     
    Game over! A shipment now sent from London goes to Beijing directly by rail.

     China is also building naval bases in Pakistan, which is prudent once one considers that a large portion of this “Road” passing through the Indian Ocean.
     
    Overlooked is the Chinese base at Djibouti now under construction. Very strategic indeed.

     In plain language, in the open ocean the US Navy can and, most likely, will sink the Chinese Navy and that will mean the end of the Road, leaving only the Belt to China.

     

    With all the sats following the carriers second by second, odds are the ss missles would take less than an hour to sink Mahan's theory for good.

    Game over! A shipment now sent from London goes to Beijing directly by rail.

    Since it is difficult to answer such broad and uneducated statements, let’s do a simplest calculation (which also will explain why China builds a massive cargo fleet).

    Say, crude (just for the sake of argument). A single train–three pullers and about, say 100 cisterns.

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/ct-oil-train-new-data-met-20150403-story.html

    They give us an average 700 barrels per car. That is 70 000 barrels per train. It is very roughly 8000 tons of crude. Well, now we can compare. An LR-1 (Long Range) tanker can haul up to 610 000 barrels of crude. That is almost 9 times (or nine full trains of crude) in usually well protected waters of NSR (it also cuts the time by 9 days compared to “southern” route). Containers:

    Longest (up to 200 cars) trains can haul up to 400 containers, container ship can carry up to 7500 40 foot and 15 000 20 foot containers. So, here it is. Sea routes will remain as importnat as ever, in fact–even more so in the future.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    One container of say car parts is quite another matter, or two cars per container.
    There was just the choice between water and air.
    , @Robert Magill

    Say, crude (just for the sake of argument). A single train–three pullers and about, say 100 cisterns.
     
    I didn't realize that much crude was being shipped out of London. Thanks for the heads up.

    What's the tonnage comparisons of bed pillows and mattresses?
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  162. @Andrei Martyanov
    Agree. But majority of people are absolutely not in sync with a gigantic and rather fast change in MOs of major geopolitical players. Well, some US law-makers call Russia Soviet Union still.

    Correct! But here is a fact. Russians always remembered and always will remember their 26 million dead in WW3. Their attention to military and weapons progress have never wavered, and it will never waiver..
    So maybe of couple of years under Yeltsin it moved slightly behind in sequence of priorities , but that was quickly re- compensated under Putin.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
    I beg everybody's pardon. Typo WW2
    , @Joe Wong
    Yes, the Russian will never waver on their military and weapons development, so thus the great USSR patriots. Please carry on with teh great Tsar or USSR tradition. BTW there are a lot cutbacks in military aerospace programs in Russia due to financial constrains lately.
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  163. @YetAnotherAnon
    Agreed.

    "I ain't got nuthin against them Russians. No Russian ever called me deplorable".

    Right on brother!

    Read More
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  164. @Ilyana_Rozumova
    Correct! But here is a fact. Russians always remembered and always will remember their 26 million dead in WW3. Their attention to military and weapons progress have never wavered, and it will never waiver..
    So maybe of couple of years under Yeltsin it moved slightly behind in sequence of priorities , but that was quickly re- compensated under Putin.

    I beg everybody’s pardon. Typo WW2

    Read More
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  165. Joe Wong says:
    @Avery
    {A poor showing in export markets for the MC-21 (which you seem to already anticipate) is evidence that Russia’s commercial aviation technology is inferior to counterparts.}

    Not necessarily, because technological parity, inferiority, or superiority does not necessarily predict or guarantee commercial success. I don't know about aviation technology, but I know of lots of examples in computer industries where a better technology just did not gain commercial traction.

    Boeing and Airbus have been in the commercial aviation business for a long time.
    They have a solid reputation of producing excellent, cutting edge aircraft.
    And they are not sitting on their laurels.
    Russians and Chinese have no experience in commercial/consumer markets.
    Their own internal markets also have tremendous (bad) influence on their mindset.

    West has had stiff competition for consumer products for decades: customers expect price&quality.
    Russia has the legacy of USSR, where people had to buy whatever (junk) was produced by the State: there was no choice.

    So Russia will probably find some niche markets for its commercial aircraft, but it will find it very tough to compete with Boeing or Airbus head-to-head. Same with the China.

    Please refrain from comparing Russia or USA to China, Russia and USA are declining while China is rising. Russian and American like to claim they are the world class or the world best by bad mouthing China, but has no substance to support their claim as demonstrated by the Russian bloggers here, who have a lot rhetoric.

    Even China is surpassing Russian and American in aerospace technologies, the Russian and American are still dwelling in the 50s to claim their superiority.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    50 cents has been deposited into your account.
    , @Avery
    I will kindly refrain from comparing, if you please refrain from fantasizing about China.
    You know, as in engaging in mythology?

    And as soon as China lands a human being on the Moon, I will stop comparing USA to China.
    And as soon as China produces something in the class of Sukhoi Su-57, I will stop comparing Russia to China.

    China mass-produces junk copied from others.
    All its aerospace and military technologies are minor improvements of Soviet era designs that Soviets freely gave to China in the communist honeymoon era.
    Or copies of US technology stolen from US or bought from Israel* **, our "ally" which has access to the best and most valuable of US military tech.
    What innovations has China come up with?
    Oh yeah, I forgot: 'electromagnetic induction propulsion system'.
    Riiiight.

    This post of yours is proof that you have no clue about anything:

    [Chinese submarines are driven by electromagnetic induction propulsion system, no propellers and no vibration from engines or steam turbines. Chinese submarines routinely trial US submarines weeks a time. PLAN said there were sexual abuse screams on the US nuclear submarines all the time, it is really inhuman for the life on US submarines.]

    btw: US population in 1970 was 205 million.
    China's population today is 1.4 BILLION.
    You have 5X the population, and presumably 5X the scientists/engineers.
    Still waiting for a Chinese man or woman to land on the moon.

    ______________________________
    *
    [ISRAEL SELLS ARMS TO CHINA, U.S. SAYS]
    http://www.nytimes.com/1993/10/13/world/israel-sells-arms-to-china-us-says.html

    **
    [Israel accused of selling US secrets to China]
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/israel-accused-of-selling-us-secrets-to-china-1510406.html

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  166. @jilles dykstra
    What about France, India and Sweden ?
    Moreover, the USA JSF still is unable to fly.

    What about France, India and Sweden ?

    Neither of them, with the exception of France who is a very big shot in Airbus, which is EU project, have viable commercial aviation program. Gripen is a superb fighter but that is the extent of current Swedish aerospace capability. India, IIRC, recently ran into the, yet again, troubles with their Tejas. India flies mostly Soviet/Russian combat jets and will likely fly in addition Rafale. Commercially, it is all two big ones. Many people mention Embraer (just to illustrate)–but in essence it is an air frame manufacturer, everything else, from avionics to engines is foreign. It cannot be otherwise–Brazil doesn’t produce these crucial elements and instead of developing them (doubtful, but still) it allows foreign players to equip Embraers primarily to make its entrance into international market easier. Very much along the lines of SSJ idea, with a major exception for a Saturn-Snecma engines.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Den Lille Abe
    Yes the Jas Gripen is Swedish designed and is a whole domestically made produce except ---tada the engines which are American Pratt& Whitneys if I remmeber correct.
    Part from that good article.
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  167. @Andrei Martyanov

    Game over! A shipment now sent from London goes to Beijing directly by rail.
     
    Since it is difficult to answer such broad and uneducated statements, let's do a simplest calculation (which also will explain why China builds a massive cargo fleet).

    Say, crude (just for the sake of argument). A single train--three pullers and about, say 100 cisterns.

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/ct-oil-train-new-data-met-20150403-story.html

    They give us an average 700 barrels per car. That is 70 000 barrels per train. It is very roughly 8000 tons of crude. Well, now we can compare. An LR-1 (Long Range) tanker can haul up to 610 000 barrels of crude. That is almost 9 times (or nine full trains of crude) in usually well protected waters of NSR (it also cuts the time by 9 days compared to "southern" route). Containers:

    Longest (up to 200 cars) trains can haul up to 400 containers, container ship can carry up to 7500 40 foot and 15 000 20 foot containers. So, here it is. Sea routes will remain as importnat as ever, in fact--even more so in the future.

    One container of say car parts is quite another matter, or two cars per container.
    There was just the choice between water and air.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    There was just the choice between water and air.
     
    There is--cargo ships haul enormous quantities of goods to hubs. From there--there are trains and trucks. This is a pretty stable configuration now for at least 50 years. So, not only the game is "not over" for sea routs (yeah, right, almost 90% of the global trade is moved by the sea) but, as it is the case with LNG--they become even more important. In the end, in the case of China and Russia, and Russia and Europe, all pipe-lines are a form of transportation. So, in general, transport infrastructure is a very complex thing and there is also no denial of China's colossal commercial shipping construction and acquisition.

    http://www.hellenicshippingnews.com/china-owned-ships-fleet-expansion-accelerates/

    So, no signs of any "game over".


    One container of say car parts is quite another matter, or two cars per container.
     
    Reasonable question but let's calculate:

    200 rail cars (this is maximum possible), 400 containers x 2 cars=800 cars per train. Up to 8500 cars per ship:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/15/automobiles/around-the-world-with-5500-cars.html

    Math, speaks for itself. Factor of 10. It is an order of magnitude per shipment.

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  168. Joe Wong says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    Just because boeing has r&d in Russia doesn’t mean the mc-21 is as good as a boeing 787
     
    Boeing's engineering office in Moscow is the largest Boeing's operation abroad. But that is beyond the point:

    This is meaningless since boeing has research and development centers in china, india etc…
     
    No it is not, once one have a professional opinion of Chinese commercial and military aviation--it is grossly sub par. At best--it is mediocre.

    The mc-21 hasn’t even passed FAA certifications and has no overseas orders, they don’t even have verified specs
     
    Again, you want to tell fairy tales about "overseas orders", try college girls from your neighborhood. Just to illustrate to you all this "markets" BS. Educate yourself for warmup with this:

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/beltway/2011/02/28/how-boeing-won-the-tanker-war/#285079263d49

    I know what was happening in the State of Washington and how Congress got involved in a rather scandalous reversal of contract with EADS.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/25/business/25tanker.html

    Really, it is becoming tiresome with you and other anonymous fanboys trying to preach here "markets" gospel not understanding even basics. So, in order for me not to waste time answering utterly ignorant questions and statements:

    Airspace is one of those very few enclosed technological cycles which defines national power. Currently, there are only three nations and one conglomerate (EU) which can, completely out of own resources, R&D, design and built modern commercial and combat aircraft. These nations are:

    1. USA
    2. Russia
    3. China, which is not in the same league. When it will get there--I will inform everyone here.

    In general, any nation defends its aerospace market and rightly so. Except, of course, Russia of 1990s (for obvious reasons) and China which does not and cannot produce competitive commercial aircraft design. But that is another matter altogether.

    Get rid of Putin, and get the Goldman Sachs and Co. back in again to give Russia another shock therapy modernization treatment, they will help Russian to get MC-21 pass FAA certification. American and Russian are natural allies, aren’t they? The American won’t screw the Russian, right?

    Read More
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  169. @Andrei Martyanov

    Game over! A shipment now sent from London goes to Beijing directly by rail.
     
    Since it is difficult to answer such broad and uneducated statements, let's do a simplest calculation (which also will explain why China builds a massive cargo fleet).

    Say, crude (just for the sake of argument). A single train--three pullers and about, say 100 cisterns.

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/ct-oil-train-new-data-met-20150403-story.html

    They give us an average 700 barrels per car. That is 70 000 barrels per train. It is very roughly 8000 tons of crude. Well, now we can compare. An LR-1 (Long Range) tanker can haul up to 610 000 barrels of crude. That is almost 9 times (or nine full trains of crude) in usually well protected waters of NSR (it also cuts the time by 9 days compared to "southern" route). Containers:

    Longest (up to 200 cars) trains can haul up to 400 containers, container ship can carry up to 7500 40 foot and 15 000 20 foot containers. So, here it is. Sea routes will remain as importnat as ever, in fact--even more so in the future.

    Say, crude (just for the sake of argument). A single train–three pullers and about, say 100 cisterns.

    I didn’t realize that much crude was being shipped out of London. Thanks for the heads up.

    What’s the tonnage comparisons of bed pillows and mattresses?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    What’s the tonnage comparisons of bed pillows and mattresses?
     
    I am not into the business of procurement of pillows and mattresses--I merely use them--but I am sure there is some formula for that too.
    , @Philip Owen
    Trans European freight trains are limited to 2000 tonnes. And the channel tunnel costs as much as the journey from Voronezh to Calais. I've checked.
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  170. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Utu, you’ve become incredibly cynical since I’ve known you on this site.
     
    Spend more time at Unz, you'll also gain the Misanthropy achivement.

    Do you mean aaron or utu?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Everyone.
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  171. Joe Wong says:
    @Ilyana_Rozumova
    Correct! But here is a fact. Russians always remembered and always will remember their 26 million dead in WW3. Their attention to military and weapons progress have never wavered, and it will never waiver..
    So maybe of couple of years under Yeltsin it moved slightly behind in sequence of priorities , but that was quickly re- compensated under Putin.

    Yes, the Russian will never waver on their military and weapons development, so thus the great USSR patriots. Please carry on with teh great Tsar or USSR tradition. BTW there are a lot cutbacks in military aerospace programs in Russia due to financial constrains lately.

    Read More
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  172. @Joe Wong
    Please refrain from comparing Russia or USA to China, Russia and USA are declining while China is rising. Russian and American like to claim they are the world class or the world best by bad mouthing China, but has no substance to support their claim as demonstrated by the Russian bloggers here, who have a lot rhetoric.

    Even China is surpassing Russian and American in aerospace technologies, the Russian and American are still dwelling in the 50s to claim their superiority.

    50 cents has been deposited into your account.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    LOL
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  173. @jilles dykstra
    One container of say car parts is quite another matter, or two cars per container.
    There was just the choice between water and air.

    There was just the choice between water and air.

    There is–cargo ships haul enormous quantities of goods to hubs. From there–there are trains and trucks. This is a pretty stable configuration now for at least 50 years. So, not only the game is “not over” for sea routs (yeah, right, almost 90% of the global trade is moved by the sea) but, as it is the case with LNG–they become even more important. In the end, in the case of China and Russia, and Russia and Europe, all pipe-lines are a form of transportation. So, in general, transport infrastructure is a very complex thing and there is also no denial of China’s colossal commercial shipping construction and acquisition.

    http://www.hellenicshippingnews.com/china-owned-ships-fleet-expansion-accelerates/

    So, no signs of any “game over”.

    One container of say car parts is quite another matter, or two cars per container.

    Reasonable question but let’s calculate:

    200 rail cars (this is maximum possible), 400 containers x 2 cars=800 cars per train. Up to 8500 cars per ship:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/15/automobiles/around-the-world-with-5500-cars.html

    Math, speaks for itself. Factor of 10. It is an order of magnitude per shipment.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Vidi

    200 rail cars (this is maximum possible), 400 containers x 2 cars=800 cars per train. Up to 8500 cars per ship:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/15/automobiles/around-the-world-with-5500-cars.html

    Math, speaks for itself. Factor of 10. It is an order of magnitude per shipment.
     
    Shipping by boat is cheaper, but strategically important traffic can go by train in an emergency. The latter advantage is the main import of the new Silk Road.
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  174. @anonymous
    Do you mean aaron or utu?

    Everyone.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonymous
    Thought so. Agree.
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  175. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Yee
    CanSpeccy,

    "Yes, tell that to the Tibetans, the Uyghurs, "

    Tibet and Xinjiang has been Chinese territory for hundreds of years, thousands on and off in Xinjiang's case.

    For every separatist, there're far more patriotic Tibetans and Uyghurs to out number them. Lies of the West changes nothing.

    You wouldn't believe how many Tibetans still have Mao's picture on their walls.
    http://image2.sina.com.cn/dy/c/p/2006-06-28/U1010P1T1D10277136F21DT20060628154102.jpg

    Tibetan children salute passing by army vehicles.
    http://mmbiz.qpic.cn/mmbiz_png/roTTReeZzKUCRWWJQDrDmo8dNk2fJqe1aicG4ZHTI8dUmsJ6g5kmiakltIlYtDwFSuKx6yXM7UVKLVribhGfsPpibA/640?wx_fmt=png&tp=webp&wxfrom=5&wx_lazy=1

    Uyghur villagers helping police hunt down terrorists.
    http://image1.caixin.com/2014-08-03/1407118875045595_480_320.jpg

    Elderly Uyghur lady visit Mao's
    Memorial hall with family.
    http://img.sogoucdn.com/net/a/05/link?appid=100520033&url=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.china.cn%2Fattachement%2Fjpg%2Fsite1000%2F20160121%2Fb8aeed9904ac180a780942.jpg&referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.china.com.cn%2Fnewphoto%2Fnews%2F2016-01%2F21%2Fcontent_37627894_3.htm

    Tibetan children salute passing by [Chinese] army [of occupation] vehicles.

    LOL

    Read More
    • Replies: @DB Cooper
    I am sure you are from a people that ethnic and religious oppressions are part of the historic experience of your culture (whether your people were the one doing the oppression or at the receiving end of the oppression is immaterial). From the perspective of your culture, ethnic and religious oppressions are just normal human behavior, as natural as eating and sleeping. This is why you cannot accept the fact that Tibetans and Uighurs in China are not oppressed.

    Let me put it simply this way. Ethnic and religious oppression is simply not a thing in Chinese culture. It never has been. And this features has manifested itself in many ways, including the organic coalescing of different ethnic groups to form the 'Han' people throughout thousands years of nation building to the non-existence of religious war in Chinese history. On the other hand from the Sino-centric (as opposed to the usual Euro-centric) point of view, that there are cultures in the world that do ethnic and religious oppression is actually an eccentricity of humankind.

    What happen if you tell a Brit that people in London riot over the lost of a ping pong match of their national ping pong team to another country? The Brit will immediately dismiss this as nonsense because ping pong hooliganism is not a thing in British culture. In the same manner a Chinese will immediately dismiss change of ethnic and religious oppression of the Tibetans and Uighurs as nonsense.
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  176. Joe Wong says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    Just because you declare repeatedly that the industry is world class doesn’t mean it is.
     
    Well, it does. Especially when one considers a very simple fact that I am US commercial aerospace industry insider and am well acquainted with ins and outs of it. So, how to put--you may pretend to rationalize whatever you want but unless you deals with what drives commercial aviation, you cannot have any competent opinion on any of this issues other that reading it from crappy "economic" magazines. And that is why:

    A poor showing in export markets for the MC-21 (which you seem to already anticipate) is evidence that Russia’s commercial aviation technology is inferior to counterparts.
     
    This phrase, which is a distilled BS, shows how detached you are from anything professional, here are the reasons why:

    1. MC-21 can not have any "showing" in markets precisely for it being right now in a third phase of flight testing for 001, other 5 test flight aircraft, including continuous testing of static air frame, are either ready or getting ready.

    2. If you think that 175 firm prepaid orders plus another around 180 options (so, around 350 aircraft for starters--not too shabby), many of them in transition to firm, by Russian carriers are not "market" then you are obviously have no idea what are you talking about, but that was clear from the get go.

    3. Again, educate yourself on Soviet commercial aviation before trying to pretend that you have a clue. That is not to mention that you didn't answer my question about specific similarity between B-787 and MC-21. I will disclose this now: it is a "black wing", which is a carbon-fiber vacuum infused wing, which, in the class of narrow body mid-range aircraft class exists only on MC-21. B-787 is the other one, albeit in a long range category.

    I am not going to waste anymore time explaining to you what it means to design a wing, its complex mechanics and then produce it out composites, including wing-to-body , including composite empennage. But if you didn't know, much of the wing--the most complex integral part of aircraft--for B 787 was developed in... Moscow. Get educated and don't try to impress anyone here with "market" BS. Russian airspace industry is one of the leaders in commercial aviation and is the leader in military one. I am not going to talk here about titanium and what it takes to work on it. But in general, have a nice life.

    Funny, Russians always say “I am not going to waste anymore time explaining to you” my words is final, and I have no patience for debate. It seems the Russian and the Anglo are alike, both of them insist “my words must be taken as given truth.” If you don’t then bombing, killing and waterboarding is the treatment until you do, by the way bombing, killing and waterboarding is with good intention the Russian and the American said.

    Read More
    • Replies: @CanSpeccy

    It seems the Russian and the Anglo are alike...
     
    What do you know about the "Anglo," Joe? Indeed, what is the Anglo? I guess I'm an Anglo, since I was born in England of English descent since at least the eleventh century. But in what way does that make me "like a Russian," or in your estimate, "a person with not patience for debate"?

    Or is it that when you say "Anglo,"you mean "American"? If so, you should say what you mean. Americans, in the vast majority, are not Anglos. There are more Irish in America than English, and there are more Germans in America than Irish, and there are more colored people in America, yourself included probably, than people of pure European, let alone English, descent in America.

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  177. @Robert Magill

    Say, crude (just for the sake of argument). A single train–three pullers and about, say 100 cisterns.
     
    I didn't realize that much crude was being shipped out of London. Thanks for the heads up.

    What's the tonnage comparisons of bed pillows and mattresses?

    What’s the tonnage comparisons of bed pillows and mattresses?

    I am not into the business of procurement of pillows and mattresses–I merely use them–but I am sure there is some formula for that too.

    Read More
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  178. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @denk
    FFS
    TW was part of China before the jp robbed it in 1898 .

    Get this into your thick skull,
    Even tho China claims rightful sovereignty over TW there aint no PLA troops occupying the island and raping TW lass like what the illegit murkkans do in Okinawa./Jeju/Ph.. etc etc/

    BTW,
    Are You saying that cuz the Mongols/Manchus took Tibet/Xinjiang in the 15c so the Czar was entitiled to take Siberia and the anglos to take
    USA/Canada/Hawaii/Puerto Rico/Guam./Diego Garcia/ Okinawa./Jeju/ Oz/NZ......ETC ETC ?

    Get this into your thick skull

    A thick skull is probably an asset, since there clearly something more solid than an idea that you would like to put through my skull.

    Having, in the course of a long life, worked for Chinese, worked with Chinese, taught Chinese, employed Chinese, I can say that, at their best, the Chinese display the best of that which humanity is capable.

    But it is remarkable and sad to see representatives of China, the world’s oldest intact empire, hypocritically raging against the atrocities committed by European empires, while defending the ongoing atrocities of the Communist bully boys in Beijing.

    Read More
    • Replies: @ThatDamnGood
    But there is a difference between being made a colony at gunpoint vs being made an autonomous region at gunpoint. :p

    At least to me.
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  179. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Joe Wong
    Funny, Russians always say "I am not going to waste anymore time explaining to you" my words is final, and I have no patience for debate. It seems the Russian and the Anglo are alike, both of them insist "my words must be taken as given truth." If you don't then bombing, killing and waterboarding is the treatment until you do, by the way bombing, killing and waterboarding is with good intention the Russian and the American said.

    It seems the Russian and the Anglo are alike…

    What do you know about the “Anglo,” Joe? Indeed, what is the Anglo? I guess I’m an Anglo, since I was born in England of English descent since at least the eleventh century. But in what way does that make me “like a Russian,” or in your estimate, “a person with not patience for debate”?

    Or is it that when you say “Anglo,”you mean “American”? If so, you should say what you mean. Americans, in the vast majority, are not Anglos. There are more Irish in America than English, and there are more Germans in America than Irish, and there are more colored people in America, yourself included probably, than people of pure European, let alone English, descent in America.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Joe Wong
    I know about "Anglo" more than Edward Harper Parker knew about Chinese, or any China pundits on the internet as well as China Hands in the West know about China.

    Perhaps you define Anglo by blood linkage, but others may define Anglo differently, like based on their behavior, e.g. someone my appear non-Anglo, but they behave like Anglo, then they are Anglo in other people's eyes. Mind you such arrogant and self-righteous attitude was created by the Anglo in the 18th and 19th centuries, and it is precedent for others to follow.

    BTW Tsar Nicholas II was Queen Victoria's grandson, and Russians and Anglo are the royal subjects of their Monarchs, it is not too far to generalize the Russian and the Anglo are alike based on E H Parker's standard of judgement.
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  180. Kiza says:
    @CanSpeccy

    End of liners display very specific characteristics: moronic relativism, hedonism, absurdity, inability to understand that some rules of the game – or constraints – cannot be changed, and, of course, no children. Looking at Western Europe that behaviour is dominant, so what there to save?
     
    What is there to save?

    A civilization. The greatest civilization the world has yet seen.

    How to save it?

    1) Stop talking and acting like a wimp.

    2) Boot the globalist treasonite leadership.

    3) Boot the "refugees" and criminal immigrants, incentivize repatriation of legal and law-abiding immigrants, with large cash grants, certain rights, e.g., to Euro passports but without residency rights.

    4) Reimpose the traditional values through education, law reform, and legal restrictions on recruitment by non-Christian religious groups.

    5) Criminalize sex "education".

    6) Outlaw abortion.

    7) Restore meritocracy in education, slash university entrance to 10% or less of school graduates, terminate the PC indoctrination courses in the university, restore academic freedom in the university, slash academic salaries, eliminate corporate control of academic research.

    8) Restore freedom of speach:

    Break up the media monopolies. Institute a one person/company one media outlet policy.

    I know that you had noble intentions yet I had great chuckles reading your plan point by point. But would it not have been easier to say – we need to turn all our policies by 180 degrees – that is turn them into the opposite direction? Then the next naive question is how did we end up with all our policies in the wrong direction? Are there any vested interests which drove them to be such? How strong are those interests?

    Simply, it would be so easy to make the World right if the vested interests could be overcome.

    Read More
    • Replies: @CanSpeccy

    it would be so easy to make the World right if the vested interests could be overcome.
     
    Well, yes. And to do that, you first have to understand that the bastards are intent on destroying you.

    At present, most of the people of the Western nations haven't a clue, either that they've been targeted for extinction, or that their pathetic PC virtue signalling proves how well they've been brainwashed to self-destruct. They are like Jews docilely lining up for the gas chambers.

    But nothing last forever, particularly in the political sphere. Americans may believe fake news today, but like the Russians under the Soviet tyranny, they will soon see the error of believing anything the elite have to say. Then the trouble starts — for the elite.

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  181. @CanSpeccy

    Get this into your thick skull
     
    A thick skull is probably an asset, since there clearly something more solid than an idea that you would like to put through my skull.

    Having, in the course of a long life, worked for Chinese, worked with Chinese, taught Chinese, employed Chinese, I can say that, at their best, the Chinese display the best of that which humanity is capable.

    But it is remarkable and sad to see representatives of China, the world's oldest intact empire, hypocritically raging against the atrocities committed by European empires, while defending the ongoing atrocities of the Communist bully boys in Beijing.

    But there is a difference between being made a colony at gunpoint vs being made an autonomous region at gunpoint. :p

    At least to me.

    Read More
    • Replies: @CanSpeccy

    But there is a difference between being made a colony at gunpoint vs being made an autonomous region at gunpoint.
     
    Don't know what you mean by "a difference." Obviously there is a difference in the form of words, but what difference does it make on the ground in Tibet when there is a massive flood of Han Chinese settlers, in your autonomous region under the guns of the Chinese Commie bully boys in Beijing?
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  182. Beckow says:
    @jilles dykstra
    No idea where these figures come from.
    Of course, the contiuing anti Russia propaganda has effect, such as accusing Putin of the MH370 disaster, without ever proving anything.
    Many here no longer believe anything our politicians say.
    Nevertheless, I think the Ukraine referendum is more dependable than any poll.
    I never meet anyone who sees Russia as a military threat.

    the Ukraine referendum is more dependable than any poll

    I agree, but that was a more complex issue. I think the round-the-clock propaganda in the West is working. As if they are trying to get people ready for something big. Otherwise, why do it?

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  183. AnonFromTN [AKA "Anon"] says:

    Anon from TN
    My two cents: interesting analysis, but too narrow and way too Europe-centric. Large chunks of Western Europe are in the process of committing suicide by “multi-culturalism”, so the value of Europe and its market 20 years from now is far from certain. The US is committing suicide in a different way, by overextending itself militarily, wasting huge resources, and getting deeper in debt. The author should look at other centers of power that will be important in 20-30 years. And I don’t mean Australia: it has small population, stupidly allies itself with the sinking US militarily, while becoming totally dependent on China economically. Culturally, Russia (likely with parts of Eastern Europe) and Latin America are becoming new Europe, and both will gain in strength. It is questionable whether Germany joins them and remains Europe, or sinks along with Britain, France, and the US. Another center is India, but it is hard to bet on it: a lot of potential, because of economic growth and non-Islamic culture, but many ways to miss the train, especially if it allies itself with the US to counter China. More certain current and future power center is Japan + Korea: both are culturally non-European, but both are anti-Chinese and strong technologically. I think this explains Putin’s overtures to them: discussions of gas/oil pipelines and bridges/tunnels to Hokkaido via Sakhalin, huge orders to South Korean shipbuilders for liquefied gas tankers, etc. However, the trade with Latin America still requires control of maritime lines, so the navy remains a factor.
    What does the equation look like with these players included?

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  184. Yee says:

    CanSpeccy,

    Laugh all you want. Tibet has been occupyed since the Qing dynasty. If you think the Tibetans aren’t glad to rid off their serfdom under Dalai just because the Manchus has been replaced by Han, you’re gravely mistakened.

    Tibetans burning their serfdom papers.

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  185. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @ThatDamnGood
    But there is a difference between being made a colony at gunpoint vs being made an autonomous region at gunpoint. :p

    At least to me.

    But there is a difference between being made a colony at gunpoint vs being made an autonomous region at gunpoint.

    Don’t know what you mean by “a difference.” Obviously there is a difference in the form of words, but what difference does it make on the ground in Tibet when there is a massive flood of Han Chinese settlers, in your autonomous region under the guns of the Chinese Commie bully boys in Beijing?

    Read More
    • Replies: @ThatDamnGood
    Beats just having a couple of expatriated governors. Citizenship vs serfdom. Integration into the empire until they become one of us, as imperial as it gets. We don't want just the land, we want you, your children and their children to become one of us. Unless you were a serf lord in the case of Tibet.

    Do you know what the downsides of colonialism?
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  186. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Kiza
    I know that you had noble intentions yet I had great chuckles reading your plan point by point. But would it not have been easier to say - we need to turn all our policies by 180 degrees - that is turn them into the opposite direction? Then the next naive question is how did we end up with all our policies in the wrong direction? Are there any vested interests which drove them to be such? How strong are those interests?

    Simply, it would be so easy to make the World right if the vested interests could be overcome.

    it would be so easy to make the World right if the vested interests could be overcome.

    Well, yes. And to do that, you first have to understand that the bastards are intent on destroying you.

    At present, most of the people of the Western nations haven’t a clue, either that they’ve been targeted for extinction, or that their pathetic PC virtue signalling proves how well they’ve been brainwashed to self-destruct. They are like Jews docilely lining up for the gas chambers.

    But nothing last forever, particularly in the political sphere. Americans may believe fake news today, but like the Russians under the Soviet tyranny, they will soon see the error of believing anything the elite have to say. Then the trouble starts — for the elite.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Kiza
    Let us hope so.

    But let me pretend that I am smart and let me posit Kiza’s Second Law of Human Nature: whenever things are going in the wrong direction, first find out whose interest is pushing them in that direction, and only then try to change the direction.

    In other words, things never go in the wrong direction on their own.

    Pretty elementary I know.
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  187. Malla says:
    @denk
    When the entire India was under British rule,
    Every Indian was a slave, moron.

    May be the Indians think clipping the whitey's toe nails was an honorable
    profession,'

    hhhhhhh

    Indians under British rule were a million times more free than Chinese under Mao.
    Under British rule there were Indian millionaires owning big mills and hiring British managers. Time to leave commie school and get back to reality.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
    Colonialism in general is not black-and-white picture. There were horrors associated with it, there were also many positive effects, including not least such things as introduction of basic medical care, sanitary norms, education and modern administration to very many places, which otherwise would remain even today a back-water shitholes. Even Marxists (real ones, not this perverted Frankfurt School modern deviants) viewed colonialism in much more realistic terms. Just one example: as Friedrich Engels, hardly a Russophile, noted: "Despite her Slavic dirt and baseness, Russia still provides civilizing influence on her Middle Asia subjects."(c) So, were Belgians committing atrocities in Kongo? Hell, yes. Did most India's military top brass graduate Sandhurst? Hell, yes. I personally have no feeling of any guilt for, say, Russian colonialism. Albeit Russian colonialism always had this interesting flavor of developing subjects it conquered on a massive scale--enough to read late Hector Chevigny's (a founder of University in Fairbanks, Alaska) "Russian America". But then again, modern political system of India today is effectively a British one. Some African countries would still be utter mayhem if not for British or Dutch. OK, Afrikaners. Rhodesia used to be not necessarily a bad place, including for its black population. What happened to RSA, of course, is another example. The picture is complex and with many shades of... whatever;-))
    , @Joe Wong
    Quoting Indian compradors as the representative of Indian freedom under the British overlord rule? The depth of mental colonization of Indians by the British is astonishing, Indians indeed are "best slaves," no wonder the British can rule hundreds of millions Indians with only few thousands of them.

    All the massacres the British thrust upon Indians must be for the benefits of Indians in your eyes, those bad Indians deserved to be butchered you must hailed. I guess you profoundly disapprove Mahatma Gandhi who wanted to worked with Nazi and unrepentant war criminal Japanese to kick the British out.

    It make sense now that the Indians see no contradiction in proclaiming they are largest democracy while maintaining inhumane caste system intact so they can abuse human beings by birth. Indians is funky double think, double talk morally defunct creatures, having toilets are not important buy spending billions to buy foreign weapons is.
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  188. Malla says:
    @Joe Wong
    You have forgotten to mention Dalai Lama and Tibetan self-immolation stories too. Uyghur ISIS and Dalai Lama clique are CIA and MI6 creations for their eternal 'God-fearing' morally defunct evil 'imperialist' conquest. They are the evidence why the Anglo is the dark side of humanity.

    Fabricating narrative in accordance with their evil minds is Anglo's Forte, racism is their creation, no one is surprised they are creating fake news to cause chaos around the world.

    Uyghur ISIS and Dalai Lama clique are CIA and MI6 creations

    Just like black ‘revolutionaries’ in Angola, Rhodesia and Mozambique were communist creations supported by Communist Chinese and the Soviets with weapons and training.

    Read More
    • Replies: @denk

    Just like black ‘revolutionaries’ in Angola, Rhodesia and Mozambique were communist creations supported by Communist Chinese and the Soviets with weapons and training.

     

    Evidence ?
    [see my reply to canspeccy about what constitute an evidence ]

    Indians under British rule were a million times more free than Chinese under Mao.
    Under British rule there were Indian millionaires owning big mills and hiring British managers. Time to leave commie school and get back to reality
     
    Im not surprised , this coming from an 'Indian' ;-) who brown nose everything about the West.

    hhhh
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  189. Joe Wong says:
    @CanSpeccy

    You should know there is a big difference between incorporating with partners and occupying thru stealing and robbing with organized violence.
     
    Yes, tell that to the Tibetans, the Uyghurs, and countless others presently or in the past subject to Chinese ethnic cleansing, or oppression, e.g.:

    The Destruction of Ethnic Identity: The Uyghur People Fight for Freedom in the Shadow of Chinese Oppression

    and

    Uyghur Muslims: Victims of the World’s Largest Ethnic Cleansing.

    Uyghur Eastern Turkestan’s headquarters is in Washington, the “Uyghur” freedom fighters caught in China are Al-Quad affiliates and served in ISIS which is an CIA creation, a lot of those get caught in China are not Uyghurs but ME Islam extremist mercenaries who want to kill all infidels including the Americans.

    Dalai Lama was kidnapped by CIA and MI6 to exile, and the Tibetan exiles lived on CIA and NED funding.

    Apart from using the Uyghur and Tibetan outlaws as a weapons to continue their Anglo Empire expansion conquest, it is also serve the purpose in the new cold war against China to prevent a different idea emerged to show how bad the world under the hypocritical and regressive Anglo dominance in the last few hundred years.

    The American and their Western partners want to keep both Uyghur and Tibetan proxies going because they are good tools to divert attention from their own failure in dealing with multi-racial problems in their backyards due to their own flawed culture and civilization, i.e. the West and particular the Anglo is racist, xenophobia, selfish, feudal and zero-sum. Image how are you going to defend your people for all the wrong doings and crimes committed against peace and humanity in the last few hundreds of years without the Uyghur and Tibetan proxies.

    Read More
    • Replies: @CanSpeccy

    The American and their Western partners want to keep both Uyghur and Tibetan proxies going ...
     
    Well obviously. The West doesn't wish to see the world's most populous nation, with arguably the world's largest economy, continually expanding its empire, so the West joins with those whom the Chinese have occupied and ruthlessly oppress.
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  190. Yee says:

    Daniel,

    How come people of different nationalities can defend their own countries, but when Chinese do it, they must have been paid to do so?

    And who the hell would waste 50 cents on a non-mainstream website? No offense to Mr. Unz.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    This should be so obvious that it seems almost pointless to reply, but since you appear to be in good faith - because whataboutism and chest-pounding isn't an epistemic virtue. It reduces dialogue to the equivalent of yelling at each other for real or perceived injustices largely stemming from emotions, a form of activity which chimpanzees have already mastered, I believe.

    Essentially it reduces dialogue into the equivalent of rivaling mental masturbation, which while rather fun for those actively engaging in it, does absolutely nothing to foster knowledge, understanding or learning and is embarrassing to watch. Nothing is gained from it, its just feeding an addiction for dopamine kicks.

    That "others do it" is a terrible justification. We aren't lemmings(which, incidentally, do not actually actively commit suicide by mimicry).

    , @Andrei Martyanov

    How come people of different nationalities can defend their own countries, but when Chinese do it, they must have been paid to do so?
     
    China has every reason to be proud of her achievements, and many of them are spectacular. What is happening here, at least on my part--is an attempt to give a realistic perspective on things and point out those aspects of Chinese development which she is yet to address. Those are precise aspects which are in the foundation of real superpowers. Just one example, when China stops buying SU-35, S-400s, cruise missiles etc. from Russia--sure, we may say that something clicked. But for now it didn't, especially in aerospace and some crucial issues of naval engineering and weapons' design. Some of those issues can not be rushed to be addressed and require painstaking growing and honing of a number of engineering, design and manufacturing schools. It is like in space exploration, just one example: Chinese man/days in space--165.35, Soviet Union/Russia--27, 031.16. See the difference--163 times more in USSR/Russia? China only now begins to get pass some newcomer status in several key human activities, in others--it remains such and will remain such for a while. It is a process. So, pointing out weaknesses is not an attempt to insult or humiliate--it is merely to give food for thought. China is only emerging now.
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  191. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Daniel Chieh
    Everyone.

    Thought so. Agree.

    Read More
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  192. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Joe Wong
    You have forgotten to mention Dalai Lama and Tibetan self-immolation stories too. Uyghur ISIS and Dalai Lama clique are CIA and MI6 creations for their eternal 'God-fearing' morally defunct evil 'imperialist' conquest. They are the evidence why the Anglo is the dark side of humanity.

    Fabricating narrative in accordance with their evil minds is Anglo's Forte, racism is their creation, no one is surprised they are creating fake news to cause chaos around the world.

    Uyghur … are CIA and MI6

    Yeah, 11 million of them invented by the CIA and MI6. And they look like this, which is why the Commie imperialists in Beijing are flooding NW China with Han settlers.

    Joe, your doing a great job deconstructing Chinese Communist Imperialist propaganda.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Joe Wong
    11 millions of them are not what the Anglo constructs and reconstructs them to be, they are more than equal partners in China, they enjoy more privileges than the Han Chinese in China. It is a good step for the Anglo to redeem their crimes against other people by following Chinese treating that 11 millions of them.
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  193. @Wally
    was stated:
    "The pace of Russian construction of ice-breakers for year-round operation of this ice route, now greatly mitigated by climate change"

    Seriously, is the author really a True Believer in the left's fake 'climate change'?

    “The pace of Russian construction of ice-breakers for year-round operation of this ice route, now greatly mitigated by climate change”

    Seriously, is the author really a True Believer in the left’s fake ‘climate change’?

    Ships are passing through northerly routes, where they were once unable to pass (albeit mainly on a seasonal basis). This is simply a fact, irrespective of one’s opinion on the veracity of the whole Global Climate Change narrative.

    Read More
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  194. CanSpeccy says: • Website

    Laugh all you want:

    Thank you. I do laugh at the proposition that Tibetans prefer rule by foreign settlers who destroy their religious institutions and shrines, ruthless suppress dissent, and who ban the use of the Tibetan language in court, etc., than rule by their own people.

    Most Tibetans, I bet, would join with me if they weren’t to discouraged to laugh at their occupiers.

    But if you think the Tibetans like mass Han immigration, why doesn’t China conduct an internationally supervised referendum on the issue to reassure the world that the Tibetans love Chinese occupation.

    Read More
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  195. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Joe Wong
    Uyghur Eastern Turkestan's headquarters is in Washington, the "Uyghur" freedom fighters caught in China are Al-Quad affiliates and served in ISIS which is an CIA creation, a lot of those get caught in China are not Uyghurs but ME Islam extremist mercenaries who want to kill all infidels including the Americans.

    Dalai Lama was kidnapped by CIA and MI6 to exile, and the Tibetan exiles lived on CIA and NED funding.

    Apart from using the Uyghur and Tibetan outlaws as a weapons to continue their Anglo Empire expansion conquest, it is also serve the purpose in the new cold war against China to prevent a different idea emerged to show how bad the world under the hypocritical and regressive Anglo dominance in the last few hundred years.

    The American and their Western partners want to keep both Uyghur and Tibetan proxies going because they are good tools to divert attention from their own failure in dealing with multi-racial problems in their backyards due to their own flawed culture and civilization, i.e. the West and particular the Anglo is racist, xenophobia, selfish, feudal and zero-sum. Image how are you going to defend your people for all the wrong doings and crimes committed against peace and humanity in the last few hundreds of years without the Uyghur and Tibetan proxies.

    The American and their Western partners want to keep both Uyghur and Tibetan proxies going …

    Well obviously. The West doesn’t wish to see the world’s most populous nation, with arguably the world’s largest economy, continually expanding its empire, so the West joins with those whom the Chinese have occupied and ruthlessly oppress.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Joe Wong
    You should know bombing, killing and waterboarding on the fabricated phantom WMD allegation as humanitarian intervention is a fallacy, the West particular the American lies, they lie about the present, about the past, even about future. They lie day and night, relentlessly.

    Their founding dogmas are based on deception, their history on false pathos and insincere heroism. The West has lied enough, and their credibility has bankrupted; nobody believes the West, it is the cause of their decline.
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  196. Joe Wong says:
    @CanSpeccy

    It seems the Russian and the Anglo are alike...
     
    What do you know about the "Anglo," Joe? Indeed, what is the Anglo? I guess I'm an Anglo, since I was born in England of English descent since at least the eleventh century. But in what way does that make me "like a Russian," or in your estimate, "a person with not patience for debate"?

    Or is it that when you say "Anglo,"you mean "American"? If so, you should say what you mean. Americans, in the vast majority, are not Anglos. There are more Irish in America than English, and there are more Germans in America than Irish, and there are more colored people in America, yourself included probably, than people of pure European, let alone English, descent in America.

    I know about “Anglo” more than Edward Harper Parker knew about Chinese, or any China pundits on the internet as well as China Hands in the West know about China.

    Perhaps you define Anglo by blood linkage, but others may define Anglo differently, like based on their behavior, e.g. someone my appear non-Anglo, but they behave like Anglo, then they are Anglo in other people’s eyes. Mind you such arrogant and self-righteous attitude was created by the Anglo in the 18th and 19th centuries, and it is precedent for others to follow.

    BTW Tsar Nicholas II was Queen Victoria’s grandson, and Russians and Anglo are the royal subjects of their Monarchs, it is not too far to generalize the Russian and the Anglo are alike based on E H Parker’s standard of judgement.

    Read More
    • Replies: @CanSpeccy

    BTW Tsar Nicholas II was Queen Victoria’s grandson, and Russians and Anglo are the royal subjects of their Monarchs, it is not too far to generalize the Russian and the Anglo are alike
     
    So the Russian Tsar, who had hardly a drop of Russian blood, married a grandson of the English Queen, who had hardly a drop of English blood, which proves that an Englishman is the same as a Russian.

    Does this make sense to anyone? Maybe your aggressive co-propagandists for Chinese supremacy, Dunk, agrees.

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  197. @Andrei Martyanov

    Unfortunately it’s far from clear imo that this is indeed happening.
     
    I'll give you one example: IIRC in 2007 Bundestag passed the law which forbade any German industrial plant which is in any way connected to Germany's military-industrial complex (and that is rather a large number) to have less than 51% of German capital. No matter how one looks at it, but that pretty much covers most of metallurgy, machine-building complex and ship-building. Smart move. Now, if a treasonous force such as Greens could be thrown out of Germany's political life... but...

    Now, if a treasonous force such as Greens could be thrown out of Germany’s political life… but…

    Unfortunately that’s a very large but, much of the German bourgeoisie is in thrall to postnational delusions. Hard power calculations (e.g. as in your example above measures to preserve the country’s industrial base, keeping energy supplies stable, or, very important imo, keeping out unassimilable foreigners) are alien to their way of thought, they take their security and relative prosperity for granted and think it’s a natural state of affairs, so they’re unable to even imagine the potential consequences of their deluded virtue-signaling. Real decadence imo, and I doubt people can be shocked out of it before it’s too late.

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  198. Avery says:
    @Joe Wong
    Please refrain from comparing Russia or USA to China, Russia and USA are declining while China is rising. Russian and American like to claim they are the world class or the world best by bad mouthing China, but has no substance to support their claim as demonstrated by the Russian bloggers here, who have a lot rhetoric.

    Even China is surpassing Russian and American in aerospace technologies, the Russian and American are still dwelling in the 50s to claim their superiority.

    I will kindly refrain from comparing, if you please refrain from fantasizing about China.
    You know, as in engaging in mythology?

    And as soon as China lands a human being on the Moon, I will stop comparing USA to China.
    And as soon as China produces something in the class of Sukhoi Su-57, I will stop comparing Russia to China.

    China mass-produces junk copied from others.
    All its aerospace and military technologies are minor improvements of Soviet era designs that Soviets freely gave to China in the communist honeymoon era.
    Or copies of US technology stolen from US or bought from Israel* **, our “ally” which has access to the best and most valuable of US military tech.
    What innovations has China come up with?
    Oh yeah, I forgot: ‘electromagnetic induction propulsion system’.
    Riiiight.

    This post of yours is proof that you have no clue about anything:

    [Chinese submarines are driven by electromagnetic induction propulsion system, no propellers and no vibration from engines or steam turbines. Chinese submarines routinely trial US submarines weeks a time. PLAN said there were sexual abuse screams on the US nuclear submarines all the time, it is really inhuman for the life on US submarines.]

    btw: US population in 1970 was 205 million.
    China’s population today is 1.4 BILLION.
    You have 5X the population, and presumably 5X the scientists/engineers.
    Still waiting for a Chinese man or woman to land on the moon.

    ______________________________
    *
    [ISRAEL SELLS ARMS TO CHINA, U.S. SAYS]

    http://www.nytimes.com/1993/10/13/world/israel-sells-arms-to-china-us-says.html

    **
    [Israel accused of selling US secrets to China]

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/israel-accused-of-selling-us-secrets-to-china-1510406.html

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  199. Kiza says:
    @JL
    All Russian military personnel, past and current, that I have ever known are like this. For some reasons I know, and many others I don't, there is a strong cultural Sinophobia that runs through the Russian armed forces. They seem to have much more respect for, and trust of, their American counterparts. Perhaps this is a good thing (for Russia) as it will provide a counterbalance to the political leadership as it increasingly orients itself towards China economically. On the other hand, it could also serve as an impediment in the event that a true military crisis emerges and the two must fully align to survive.

    Even if we (other commenters) take your biased and trollish comment seriously, we have to note that Russia/Russian Military find themselves between the rock of Chinese love and the hard place of US love. Yet, we do have confidence that the Russians are big boys and girls and will successfully navigate between those two springs of ethereal love. This may be, if for no other reason then because, the Chinese are the allies (whilst US are choosing to make themselves the enemy) and the Russians do not need to be in love with their allies, only to find a common interest. Therefore, since you reside on the side of the self-declared enemy, you are obliged to perceive the healthy allied scepticism as Sinophobia. As if US trusts all its own “allies” unquestionably and unconditionally.

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  200. Kiza says:
    @CanSpeccy

    it would be so easy to make the World right if the vested interests could be overcome.
     
    Well, yes. And to do that, you first have to understand that the bastards are intent on destroying you.

    At present, most of the people of the Western nations haven't a clue, either that they've been targeted for extinction, or that their pathetic PC virtue signalling proves how well they've been brainwashed to self-destruct. They are like Jews docilely lining up for the gas chambers.

    But nothing last forever, particularly in the political sphere. Americans may believe fake news today, but like the Russians under the Soviet tyranny, they will soon see the error of believing anything the elite have to say. Then the trouble starts — for the elite.

    Let us hope so.

    But let me pretend that I am smart and let me posit Kiza’s Second Law of Human Nature: whenever things are going in the wrong direction, first find out whose interest is pushing them in that direction, and only then try to change the direction.

    In other words, things never go in the wrong direction on their own.

    Pretty elementary I know.

    Read More
    • Replies: @CanSpeccy

    Things never go in the wrong direction on their own...
     
    Not sure what you mean, by “on their own”. Elites seem to lose control on a fairly regular basis. The French Revolution, the American Revolution, the Russian Revolution, the popular overthrow of Poland’s puppet Communist regime, which made clear to all and sundry that Communism is not a dictatorship of the proletariat, but a tyranny over the proletariat, a realization that made the collapse of the Soviet Union inevitable.

    The thing is, elites become inbred, nepotistic, decadent, lazy and stupid. We see that now in the US, Europe and probably also China, a country ruled by corrupt “Communist” billionaire descendants of the revolutionary generation.

    The interesting question, it seems to me, is not whether another revolution is on its way, but where and when the next revolution will occur. Trump may stave off American decay and disintegration and set the country on a more viable course, or he may prove simply a momentary distraction, possibly eve a creature of the deep state.

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  201. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Joe Wong
    I know about "Anglo" more than Edward Harper Parker knew about Chinese, or any China pundits on the internet as well as China Hands in the West know about China.

    Perhaps you define Anglo by blood linkage, but others may define Anglo differently, like based on their behavior, e.g. someone my appear non-Anglo, but they behave like Anglo, then they are Anglo in other people's eyes. Mind you such arrogant and self-righteous attitude was created by the Anglo in the 18th and 19th centuries, and it is precedent for others to follow.

    BTW Tsar Nicholas II was Queen Victoria's grandson, and Russians and Anglo are the royal subjects of their Monarchs, it is not too far to generalize the Russian and the Anglo are alike based on E H Parker's standard of judgement.

    BTW Tsar Nicholas II was Queen Victoria’s grandson, and Russians and Anglo are the royal subjects of their Monarchs, it is not too far to generalize the Russian and the Anglo are alike

    So the Russian Tsar, who had hardly a drop of Russian blood, married a grandson of the English Queen, who had hardly a drop of English blood, which proves that an Englishman is the same as a Russian.

    Does this make sense to anyone? Maybe your aggressive co-propagandists for Chinese supremacy, Dunk, agrees.

    Read More
    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
    Oops! Some confusion there about generations and gender. But the point I was trying to make was that neither Russia’s Romanov dynasty, nor Britain’s Hanoverian royal family were of mainly indigenous stock. Both were largely German.
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  202. @Malla
    Indians under British rule were a million times more free than Chinese under Mao.
    Under British rule there were Indian millionaires owning big mills and hiring British managers. Time to leave commie school and get back to reality.

    Colonialism in general is not black-and-white picture. There were horrors associated with it, there were also many positive effects, including not least such things as introduction of basic medical care, sanitary norms, education and modern administration to very many places, which otherwise would remain even today a back-water shitholes. Even Marxists (real ones, not this perverted Frankfurt School modern deviants) viewed colonialism in much more realistic terms. Just one example: as Friedrich Engels, hardly a Russophile, noted: “Despite her Slavic dirt and baseness, Russia still provides civilizing influence on her Middle Asia subjects.”(c) So, were Belgians committing atrocities in Kongo? Hell, yes. Did most India’s military top brass graduate Sandhurst? Hell, yes. I personally have no feeling of any guilt for, say, Russian colonialism. Albeit Russian colonialism always had this interesting flavor of developing subjects it conquered on a massive scale–enough to read late Hector Chevigny’s (a founder of University in Fairbanks, Alaska) “Russian America”. But then again, modern political system of India today is effectively a British one. Some African countries would still be utter mayhem if not for British or Dutch. OK, Afrikaners. Rhodesia used to be not necessarily a bad place, including for its black population. What happened to RSA, of course, is another example. The picture is complex and with many shades of… whatever;-))

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sergey Krieger
    I wonder if things were so bad how come there are so many blacks in Africa and Uzbeks in Uzbekistan? These places never were quite populous until they got conquered.
    , @Malla
    Totally Agree. In addition, in India, British rule helped in the emancipation of lower caste Hindus from tyrannical Brahmanist rule and Hindus from tyrannical Islamic rule. In Africa European Empires put an end to slavery.
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  203. @Yee
    Daniel,

    How come people of different nationalities can defend their own countries, but when Chinese do it, they must have been paid to do so?

    And who the hell would waste 50 cents on a non-mainstream website? No offense to Mr. Unz.

    This should be so obvious that it seems almost pointless to reply, but since you appear to be in good faith – because whataboutism and chest-pounding isn’t an epistemic virtue. It reduces dialogue to the equivalent of yelling at each other for real or perceived injustices largely stemming from emotions, a form of activity which chimpanzees have already mastered, I believe.

    Essentially it reduces dialogue into the equivalent of rivaling mental masturbation, which while rather fun for those actively engaging in it, does absolutely nothing to foster knowledge, understanding or learning and is embarrassing to watch. Nothing is gained from it, its just feeding an addiction for dopamine kicks.

    That “others do it” is a terrible justification. We aren’t lemmings(which, incidentally, do not actually actively commit suicide by mimicry).

    Read More
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  204. Joe Wong says:
    @CanSpeccy

    Uyghur ... are CIA and MI6
     
    Yeah, 11 million of them invented by the CIA and MI6. And they look like this, which is why the Commie imperialists in Beijing are flooding NW China with Han settlers.

    Joe, your doing a great job deconstructing Chinese Communist Imperialist propaganda.

    11 millions of them are not what the Anglo constructs and reconstructs them to be, they are more than equal partners in China, they enjoy more privileges than the Han Chinese in China. It is a good step for the Anglo to redeem their crimes against other people by following Chinese treating that 11 millions of them.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Antox
    what a bunch of bullshit
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  205. @Daniel Chieh
    You might like this, in your discussions about spirituality, etc.

    https://qz.com/1172433/why-is-china-creating-utopian-art-cities-in-its-former-wastelands/

    You might like this, in your discussions about spirituality, etc.

    Very interesting piece. Thank you for making me aware of this trend. Definitely important.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Glad you liked it. I generally agree with a notion that I heard that in the long run, a country needs to sell more than crass materialism. As much as the US is often associated with materialism, I think the ability to exert soft power through blue jeans and rock and roll wasn't merely the presence of easily access to denim but what it represented: individual freedom, opportunity to thrive, and general relaxation of standards.

    Obviously an individual may have different opinions on whether those are civilizationally positive things, but it is certainly very appealing to a large section of the population. From a psychological point of view, "autonomy" is a very strong driver for individual action even though "interrelatedness" appears to be much more helpful against, for example, mental illness.

    As in many things, I often wonder if its due to drivers that were much more helpful for us in a different environment, much as a craving for sweets and high fat foods were more adaptive in an environment when such sources were rare, and maladaptive as obesity in the present day.
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  206. @Andrei Martyanov
    Colonialism in general is not black-and-white picture. There were horrors associated with it, there were also many positive effects, including not least such things as introduction of basic medical care, sanitary norms, education and modern administration to very many places, which otherwise would remain even today a back-water shitholes. Even Marxists (real ones, not this perverted Frankfurt School modern deviants) viewed colonialism in much more realistic terms. Just one example: as Friedrich Engels, hardly a Russophile, noted: "Despite her Slavic dirt and baseness, Russia still provides civilizing influence on her Middle Asia subjects."(c) So, were Belgians committing atrocities in Kongo? Hell, yes. Did most India's military top brass graduate Sandhurst? Hell, yes. I personally have no feeling of any guilt for, say, Russian colonialism. Albeit Russian colonialism always had this interesting flavor of developing subjects it conquered on a massive scale--enough to read late Hector Chevigny's (a founder of University in Fairbanks, Alaska) "Russian America". But then again, modern political system of India today is effectively a British one. Some African countries would still be utter mayhem if not for British or Dutch. OK, Afrikaners. Rhodesia used to be not necessarily a bad place, including for its black population. What happened to RSA, of course, is another example. The picture is complex and with many shades of... whatever;-))

    I wonder if things were so bad how come there are so many blacks in Africa and Uzbeks in Uzbekistan? These places never were quite populous until they got conquered.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    These places never were quite populous until they got conquered.
     
    Some self-hating lefties will say that it is because of the lack of contraception and will be only marginally right. Reality is, many of those places in Africa even in the end of 19th century were practicing this BS voodoo "medicine", until those damn colonialists for a whole set of reasons started to teach those "cultures" how to wash hands, how to bathe, how to eat right, started to commit other atrocities such as opening hospitals, opening schools, oh goody--converting many to Christianity (we all know that tribal beliefs are the most advanced religious forms since..ever) and even educating and training locals in administrative, engineering, medical and even scientific fields. This is pure evil. Can you imagine how would those heirs of Timbuktu and of the African bush would have developed and surpassed those evil whiteys, if they wouldn't colonize them. By now they surely would have built Moon settlements and landed on Mars. But then again, I can sense accusations of me being a rayciss coming;-)) As per Middle Asia--they are slowly turning back to their natural state.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  207. polskijoe says:
    @Joe Wong
    Tibet, Xinjiang, Taiwan, Vietnam, and many other places have long history tangled with China culturally and economically in a normal process of building a country; unlike the White invaded and stole the North America and Australia uninvited, unwanted and with atrocity and organized violence. You should know there is a big difference between incorporating with partners and occupying thru stealing and robbing with organized violence.

    Central Asia, and some parts of North Asia (Siberia).
    were populated by IndoEuropeans, 2000-3000 years ago. Of course their were areas with Mongoloids too.
    then the Huns, and Mongols and Turks took over the land, and either killed or mixed with them.

    Instead to resorting to “who stole which land” focus on today.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Joe Wong
    Are you saying it is wrong to tell what the real history is? And we must take the West's words as given truth? Aren't you kind of authoritarian?

    BTW Himalaya contains Indians in India that small pot of land, Indian has never moved out of that barrier. The Europeans do not consider the White Russian is European, then definitely the European has never lived East of Ural, in addition even the White Russian does not live east of Ural by themselves, so don't claim credit where credit is not due like Europeans claiming North America and Australia as their god sent gift, Terra nullius, there was no IndoEuropean east of Ural and north of Himalaya.
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  208. Joe Wong says:
    @Malla
    Indians under British rule were a million times more free than Chinese under Mao.
    Under British rule there were Indian millionaires owning big mills and hiring British managers. Time to leave commie school and get back to reality.

    Quoting Indian compradors as the representative of Indian freedom under the British overlord rule? The depth of mental colonization of Indians by the British is astonishing, Indians indeed are “best slaves,” no wonder the British can rule hundreds of millions Indians with only few thousands of them.

    All the massacres the British thrust upon Indians must be for the benefits of Indians in your eyes, those bad Indians deserved to be butchered you must hailed. I guess you profoundly disapprove Mahatma Gandhi who wanted to worked with Nazi and unrepentant war criminal Japanese to kick the British out.

    It make sense now that the Indians see no contradiction in proclaiming they are largest democracy while maintaining inhumane caste system intact so they can abuse human beings by birth. Indians is funky double think, double talk morally defunct creatures, having toilets are not important buy spending billions to buy foreign weapons is.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    Ghandi supported the British against the Nazis and the Japanese.
    , @Malla
    [It would be much better not to have many different comment-threads devolve into very long disputes over India despite having only slight connection to the original articles.]

    Mental colonisation? Commie brain washing is astounding. The life of an average Indian was just as normal as it is in today's free India. The British Raj never sent us to labour camps for 'reeducation'
    nor restricted our movement within British India. There were more freedoms within British India for Indians than under any Communist government on earth. People lived their lives as they saw fit.

    It make sense now that the Indians see no contradiction in proclaiming they are largest democracy while maintaining inhumane caste system intact so they can abuse human beings by birth.
     
    You fool, the British Empire emancipated the lower castes against tyrannical rule of upper caste Hindus as well as all Hindus from brutal Islamic rule.

    Jyoti Rao Phule

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jyotirao_Phule

    Jyotirao Govindrao Phule[a] (11 April 1827 – 28 November 1890) was an Indian social activist, a thinker, anti-caste social reformer and writer from Maharashtra.[2][3]

    His work extended to many fields including eradication of untouchability and the caste system, women’s emancipation and the reform of Hindu family life. On September 1873, Phule, along with his followers, formed the Satyashodhak Samaj (Society of Seekers of Truth) to attain equal rights for people from lower castes. Phule is regarded as an important figure of the social reform movement in Maharashtra He and his wife, Savitribai Phule, were pioneers of women’s education in India.

    http://egyankosh.ac.in/bitstream/123456789/20647/1/Unit-12.pdf

    British rule had brought to an end the tyranny and chaos of the regime of the last Peshwa in Maharashtra. The colonial rulers had not only established law and order but also the principle of equality before law. The earlier regime of Brahmin Peshwas had imposed strict limitations on education, occupation arid living standards of the lower castes and women. The new rulers opened the 1 opportunities in education and mobility in occupation for the members of all castes. Missionary schools and government colleges were ready to admit any student irrespective of caste origins. New ideas of equality and liberty could reach the moderately educated sections of the lower caste. Phule was probably the best product of this process. High caste reformers and leaders also had welcomed the colonial rule. It is not surprising that Phule who was concerned with the slavery of the lower castes also favoured British Rule He hoped that the new government which believes in equality between man and man would emancipate lower castes, from the domination of the Brahmins.
    The British rule opened up new employment opportunities in the administration. The political power at local level was also being given to the Indians. Phule who had worked as a member of the Poona Municipality could visualise how lower castes wouid be able to acquire power at local level during the period of British rule and also enter the colonial bureaucracy. He believed in Colonialism, Cast Order and the Tribal Societies the benevolent attitude of the British rulers towards the lower castes and therefore asked for a number of things from them. He was not sure how long the British rule would continue. Therefore, he wanted lower castes to exploit the opportunity and get rid of the tyranny of Brahmins. Brahmin rulers used to collect huge wealth out of taxes levied on poor lower castes population, but never used to spend even a paisa (penny, cent) for their welfare. On the contrary, the new regime was showing the signs of doing good things for the deprived people. Phule assured the colonial rulers that if the Shudras were made happy and contented, they need not worry about the loyalty of the subjects. He wanted the British government to abolish Brahmin Kulkarni’s position, and a post of village headman (Patil) filled on the basis of merit. In fact, Phule would have liked the British government to put an end to the balutedary system which was connected with caste specific occupations in the villages. He asked the government to make laws prohibiting customs and practices which gave subordinate status to women and untouchables. Phule wanted Brahmin bureaucracy to be replaced by non-Brahmin bureaucracy. But if the non-Brahmins were not available, the government should appoint, he thought, the British men to these posts. He believed that the British officers would take impartial view and were likely to side with lower castes.
    He knew that education had not yet percolated to the lower castes. The masses had not yet become politically conscious. The high caste elites were claiming that they were the true representatives of the people and therefore weie demanding political rights. This process, Phule thought, would reestablish the political supremacy of the high castes. Phule advised his followers from the lower castes not to participate the-movement for political rights. He argued that
    the Indian National Congress or other political associations were not national in the true sense of the term because they represented only high castes. Phule warned his followers against the selfish and cunning motives of the Brahmins in forming these associations and advised them to keep themselves away from such associations. In his Satya Shodhak Samaj, he had made it a rule not to discuss politics. In fact, we find that he had expressed more than once a complete and total loyalty towards the new government. He firmly believed that the almighty God had dethroned the tyrannical rulers and had established in their place a just, enlightened and peaceful British rule for the welfare of the masses.

    Also

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periyar_E._V._Ramasamy

    “The Jews are only interested in themselves, and nobody else. They somehow contrive to have the rulers in their pocket, participate in governance and conspire to torture and suck the lives out of other citizens in order that they live (in comfort).” These blatantly anti-Jewish lines were penned on March 20, 1938.
    These are the next lines: “Are they not comparable to the Brahmins who too have no responsibility but have the rulers in their pocket, have entered the ruling dispensation and been lording over (all of us)?”

    This is Periyar E.V. Ramasamy writing in his magazine Kudiyarasu, and he is being unusually mild here. (Naan Sonnal Unakku Yen Kopam Vara Vendum, vol. 4, p. 532, compiled by Pasu. Gowthaman)


    In all his agitations – and he had many – the lowest common denominator was the Brahmin. Even while criticising non-Brahmin national leaders like Gandhi, Subhash Chandra Bose and Sardar Vallabhai Patel, Periyar said that they were all victims of a Brahmin conspiracy. He said, that Gandhi was killed by Brahmins because Gandhi was turning into a Periyar himself! Periyar and his disciples attributed grand conspiracies and clever manipulations by Brahmins for the plight of the non-Brahmins.

    Periyar’s was an attack on brahminical ideas of ‘philosophy’. For him philosophy was not a specific intellectual activity of the Brahmins and nor were they considered to be specialists or professionals above the masses. He forced the subalterns to understand that the Brahmanical conception of the world is something external to the organic intellectual world of the masses. His refusal to take part in Brahmanical discourses of language and his dismissal of epics like the Ramayana or Mahabharata
    has to be seen in this context.

    Periyar’s conviction was that after the end of British rule , independent India, under what he believed would be Brahmin rule, would be worse if there were not adequate checks and balances to curtail the dominance of the Brahmin castes. He gave credit to the agency of the native elite castes for using colonial institutions and bureaucracy to their own advantage. Anti-colonialist theorists like Frantz Fanon and Amilcar Cabral too have taken similar approaches to the native elites, of
    course in their own contexts.

    He wanted the British to continue to remain in power – while simultaneously complaining that they were succumbing to the machinations of the Brahmins.

    He once said
    “Hindu society as such does not exist. It is only a collection of castes. […] Indeed the ideal Hindu must be like a rat living in his own hole refusing to have any contact with others. […] There is no Hindu consciousness of kind. In every Hindu the consciousness that exists is the consciousness of his caste. That is the reason why the Hindus cannot be said to form a society or a nation. There are however many Indians whose patriotism does not permit them to admit that Indians are not a
    nation, that they are only an amorphous mass of people.”

    At times, Periyar issued blood-curdling threats to Brahmins, but in action he did not believe in violence. Many of his black-shirted followers were fine individuals personally. At the same time, Periyar was also paranoid that democracy would result in Brahmins completely taking over the reins of the government. His words: “India should never go anywhere near democratic principles. The reason is 90% of our population are fools and 97% of them are persons of low birth. How will their rule set right our country?” (Periyar’s writings compiled by Pasu. Gowthaman, vol. 4, 2017, p. 432)

    Another case in point followed in 1968, when, in Tanjore district, 44 Dalits were butchered by the goons of a landlord. Periyar commented on the murders thus: “So long as democracy exists, the honest will have no other option except to fade away, giving the dishonest room to dance around. The people of India are barbarians. The dharma of India is the dharma of criminal tribes. As long as the ones who follow Manu dharma exist, the nation will never have discipline, integrity, honesty and justice. India has gone into the hands of scoundrels after the departure of the British.”
    , @Malla

    Indians indeed are “best slaves,” no wonder the British can rule hundreds of millions Indians with only few thousands of them.
     
    Again lack of understanding of Indian history a country far far more complicated than China ever was. In India we had Hindus and Muslims, who mostly hated each other. There were massive genocides done by Islamic hordes and Hindus armies fighting back devastated the land. At the same time, there were millions of lower caste dalits who were treated like shit by upper caste Hindus. The British were accepted because they were seen as neutral outsiders in a subcontinent which is the most complex in the world and brought peace in the subcontinent. There was no political unit called India but a collection of many Kingdoms.
    Besides that, the government was more or less incorruptible. Poor Indians would bribe court officials to have their case infront of a British judge rather than an Indian judge. not because they were awed by White skin and blue eyes but because the British had a reputation of being incorruptible and fair.

    And who got your Mao into power? Was it not the Rockefellars who funded/supported him. Even Stalin was against China going Communist, he was talking about breaking China up into Northern and Southern China at best but the Americans insisted that they want Mao towards the end of WW2.
    , @Malla

    Indians is funky double think, double talk morally defunct creatures
     
    And the Chinese are paragons of morality? LOL

    buy spending billions to buy foreign weapons is
     
    That is for the Indian government to decide. If they want to buy weapons, they will and a billion plus Indians will support them. If they want to develop missiles to reach China, they will.

    https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/entire-china-could-soon-be-within-indias-n-strike-zone/articleshow/62561943.cms
    Entire China could soon be within India's Nuclear Strike Zone
    India is a sovereign country, it will do what it wants. The Chinese do not decide our policies, never will. India is no Zimbabwe.

    Though I personally am not anti Chinese at all and would want India to be friendlier to China, I admire Chinese culture a lot, listen to Chinese classical music etc.... Am not happy with India going on the U.S. side as I distrust the U.S. government. Personally I have even challenged the anti Chinese attitudes of my Indian friends (who are rabidly anti Chinese thanks to crazy media propaganda) and have posted on Indian newspaper websites taking the Chinese point of view (which I felt was more right) on some issues. But the arrogance of some the Chinese I see on this page makes me want to reconsider everything. If most people in China are like you guys, I think the world is in danger of a rising China.
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  209. Antox says:
    @Joe Wong
    11 millions of them are not what the Anglo constructs and reconstructs them to be, they are more than equal partners in China, they enjoy more privileges than the Han Chinese in China. It is a good step for the Anglo to redeem their crimes against other people by following Chinese treating that 11 millions of them.

    what a bunch of bullshit

    Read More
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  210. @Sergey Krieger
    I wonder if things were so bad how come there are so many blacks in Africa and Uzbeks in Uzbekistan? These places never were quite populous until they got conquered.

    These places never were quite populous until they got conquered.

    Some self-hating lefties will say that it is because of the lack of contraception and will be only marginally right. Reality is, many of those places in Africa even in the end of 19th century were practicing this BS voodoo “medicine”, until those damn colonialists for a whole set of reasons started to teach those “cultures” how to wash hands, how to bathe, how to eat right, started to commit other atrocities such as opening hospitals, opening schools, oh goody–converting many to Christianity (we all know that tribal beliefs are the most advanced religious forms since..ever) and even educating and training locals in administrative, engineering, medical and even scientific fields. This is pure evil. Can you imagine how would those heirs of Timbuktu and of the African bush would have developed and surpassed those evil whiteys, if they wouldn’t colonize them. By now they surely would have built Moon settlements and landed on Mars. But then again, I can sense accusations of me being a rayciss coming;-)) As per Middle Asia–they are slowly turning back to their natural state.

    Read More
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  211. Malla says:
    @Andrei Martyanov
    Colonialism in general is not black-and-white picture. There were horrors associated with it, there were also many positive effects, including not least such things as introduction of basic medical care, sanitary norms, education and modern administration to very many places, which otherwise would remain even today a back-water shitholes. Even Marxists (real ones, not this perverted Frankfurt School modern deviants) viewed colonialism in much more realistic terms. Just one example: as Friedrich Engels, hardly a Russophile, noted: "Despite her Slavic dirt and baseness, Russia still provides civilizing influence on her Middle Asia subjects."(c) So, were Belgians committing atrocities in Kongo? Hell, yes. Did most India's military top brass graduate Sandhurst? Hell, yes. I personally have no feeling of any guilt for, say, Russian colonialism. Albeit Russian colonialism always had this interesting flavor of developing subjects it conquered on a massive scale--enough to read late Hector Chevigny's (a founder of University in Fairbanks, Alaska) "Russian America". But then again, modern political system of India today is effectively a British one. Some African countries would still be utter mayhem if not for British or Dutch. OK, Afrikaners. Rhodesia used to be not necessarily a bad place, including for its black population. What happened to RSA, of course, is another example. The picture is complex and with many shades of... whatever;-))

    Totally Agree. In addition, in India, British rule helped in the emancipation of lower caste Hindus from tyrannical Brahmanist rule and Hindus from tyrannical Islamic rule. In Africa European Empires put an end to slavery.

    Read More
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  212. @Joe Wong
    Quoting Indian compradors as the representative of Indian freedom under the British overlord rule? The depth of mental colonization of Indians by the British is astonishing, Indians indeed are "best slaves," no wonder the British can rule hundreds of millions Indians with only few thousands of them.

    All the massacres the British thrust upon Indians must be for the benefits of Indians in your eyes, those bad Indians deserved to be butchered you must hailed. I guess you profoundly disapprove Mahatma Gandhi who wanted to worked with Nazi and unrepentant war criminal Japanese to kick the British out.

    It make sense now that the Indians see no contradiction in proclaiming they are largest democracy while maintaining inhumane caste system intact so they can abuse human beings by birth. Indians is funky double think, double talk morally defunct creatures, having toilets are not important buy spending billions to buy foreign weapons is.

    Ghandi supported the British against the Nazis and the Japanese.

    Read More
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  213. Joe Wong says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Utu, you’ve become incredibly cynical since I’ve known you on this site.
     
    Spend more time at Unz, you'll also gain the Misanthropy achivement.

    Come on, be a sport, Roman is not built in one day, you cannot change the Westerners’ stereotyping based on the Eurocentrism and Orientalism by just few lines of blogs or even few millions lines of blogs. The West took a couple of hundred years to plant their fabricated Eurocentrism and Orientalism deep in their culture as matter of fact, history, unquestionable believe and subconscious. It is long way to go to put wrong back to right, to expose the lies in their Eurocentrism and Orientalism, and the crimes they committed as humanitarian intervention, it is the only beginning of this long march struggle.

    Read More
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  214. Malla says:
    @Joe Wong
    Quoting Indian compradors as the representative of Indian freedom under the British overlord rule? The depth of mental colonization of Indians by the British is astonishing, Indians indeed are "best slaves," no wonder the British can rule hundreds of millions Indians with only few thousands of them.

    All the massacres the British thrust upon Indians must be for the benefits of Indians in your eyes, those bad Indians deserved to be butchered you must hailed. I guess you profoundly disapprove Mahatma Gandhi who wanted to worked with Nazi and unrepentant war criminal Japanese to kick the British out.

    It make sense now that the Indians see no contradiction in proclaiming they are largest democracy while maintaining inhumane caste system intact so they can abuse human beings by birth. Indians is funky double think, double talk morally defunct creatures, having toilets are not important buy spending billions to buy foreign weapons is.

    [It would be much better not to have many different comment-threads devolve into very long disputes over India despite having only slight connection to the original articles.]

    Mental colonisation? Commie brain washing is astounding. The life of an average Indian was just as normal as it is in today’s free India. The British Raj never sent us to labour camps for ‘reeducation’
    nor restricted our movement within British India. There were more freedoms within British India for Indians than under any Communist government on earth. People lived their lives as they saw fit.

    It make sense now that the Indians see no contradiction in proclaiming they are largest democracy while maintaining inhumane caste system intact so they can abuse human beings by birth.

    You fool, the British Empire emancipated the lower castes against tyrannical rule of upper caste Hindus as well as all Hindus from brutal Islamic rule.

    Jyoti Rao Phule

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jyotirao_Phule

    Jyotirao Govindrao Phule[a] (11 April 1827 – 28 November 1890) was an Indian social activist, a thinker, anti-caste social reformer and writer from Maharashtra.[2][3]

    His work extended to many fields including eradication of untouchability and the caste system, women’s emancipation and the reform of Hindu family life. On September 1873, Phule, along with his followers, formed the Satyashodhak Samaj (Society of Seekers of Truth) to attain equal rights for people from lower castes. Phule is regarded as an important figure of the social reform movement in Maharashtra He and his wife, Savitribai Phule, were pioneers of women’s education in India.

    [MORE]

    http://egyankosh.ac.in/bitstream/123456789/20647/1/Unit-12.pdf

    British rule had brought to an end the tyranny and chaos of the regime of the last Peshwa in Maharashtra. The colonial rulers had not only established law and order but also the principle of equality before law. The earlier regime of Brahmin Peshwas had imposed strict limitations on education, occupation arid living standards of the lower castes and women. The new rulers opened the 1 opportunities in education and mobility in occupation for the members of all castes. Missionary schools and government colleges were ready to admit any student irrespective of caste origins. New ideas of equality and liberty could reach the moderately educated sections of the lower caste. Phule was probably the best product of this process. High caste reformers and leaders also had welcomed the colonial rule. It is not surprising that Phule who was concerned with the slavery of the lower castes also favoured British Rule He hoped that the new government which believes in equality between man and man would emancipate lower castes, from the domination of the Brahmins.
    The British rule opened up new employment opportunities in the administration. The political power at local level was also being given to the Indians. Phule who had worked as a member of the Poona Municipality could visualise how lower castes wouid be able to acquire power at local level during the period of British rule and also enter the colonial bureaucracy. He believed in Colonialism, Cast Order and the Tribal Societies the benevolent attitude of the British rulers towards the lower castes and therefore asked for a number of things from them. He was not sure how long the British rule would continue. Therefore, he wanted lower castes to exploit the opportunity and get rid of the tyranny of Brahmins. Brahmin rulers used to collect huge wealth out of taxes levied on poor lower castes population, but never used to spend even a paisa (penny, cent) for their welfare. On the contrary, the new regime was showing the signs of doing good things for the deprived people. Phule assured the colonial rulers that if the Shudras were made happy and contented, they need not worry about the loyalty of the subjects. He wanted the British government to abolish Brahmin Kulkarni’s position, and a post of village headman (Patil) filled on the basis of merit. In fact, Phule would have liked the British government to put an end to the balutedary system which was connected with caste specific occupations in the villages. He asked the government to make laws prohibiting customs and practices which gave subordinate status to women and untouchables. Phule wanted Brahmin bureaucracy to be replaced by non-Brahmin bureaucracy. But if the non-Brahmins were not available, the government should appoint, he thought, the British men to these posts. He believed that the British officers would take impartial view and were likely to side with lower castes.
    He knew that education had not yet percolated to the lower castes. The masses had not yet become politically conscious. The high caste elites were claiming that they were the true representatives of the people and therefore weie demanding political rights. This process, Phule thought, would reestablish the political supremacy of the high castes. Phule advised his followers from the lower castes not to participate the-movement for political rights. He argued that
    the Indian National Congress or other political associations were not national in the true sense of the term because they represented only high castes. Phule warned his followers against the selfish and cunning motives of the Brahmins in forming these associations and advised them to keep themselves away from such associations. In his Satya Shodhak Samaj, he had made it a rule not to discuss politics. In fact, we find that he had expressed more than once a complete and total loyalty towards the new government. He firmly believed that the almighty God had dethroned the tyrannical rulers and had established in their place a just, enlightened and peaceful British rule for the welfare of the masses.

    Also

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periyar_E._V._Ramasamy

    “The Jews are only interested in themselves, and nobody else. They somehow contrive to have the rulers in their pocket, participate in governance and conspire to torture and suck the lives out of other citizens in order that they live (in comfort).” These blatantly anti-Jewish lines were penned on March 20, 1938.
    These are the next lines: “Are they not comparable to the Brahmins who too have no responsibility but have the rulers in their pocket, have entered the ruling dispensation and been lording over (all of us)?”

    This is Periyar E.V. Ramasamy writing in his magazine Kudiyarasu, and he is being unusually mild here. (Naan Sonnal Unakku Yen Kopam Vara Vendum, vol. 4, p. 532, compiled by Pasu. Gowthaman)

    In all his agitations – and he had many – the lowest common denominator was the Brahmin. Even while criticising non-Brahmin national leaders like Gandhi, Subhash Chandra Bose and Sardar Vallabhai Patel, Periyar said that they were all victims of a Brahmin conspiracy. He said, that Gandhi was killed by Brahmins because Gandhi was turning into a Periyar himself! Periyar and his disciples attributed grand conspiracies and clever manipulations by Brahmins for the plight of the non-Brahmins.

    Periyar’s was an attack on brahminical ideas of ‘philosophy’. For him philosophy was not a specific intellectual activity of the Brahmins and nor were they considered to be specialists or professionals above the masses. He forced the subalterns to understand that the Brahmanical conception of the world is something external to the organic intellectual world of the masses. His refusal to take part in Brahmanical discourses of language and his dismissal of epics like the Ramayana or Mahabharata
    has to be seen in this context.

    Periyar’s conviction was that after the end of British rule , independent India, under what he believed would be Brahmin rule, would be worse if there were not adequate checks and balances to curtail the dominance of the Brahmin castes. He gave credit to the agency of the native elite castes for using colonial institutions and bureaucracy to their own advantage. Anti-colonialist theorists like Frantz Fanon and Amilcar Cabral too have taken similar approaches to the native elites, of
    course in their own contexts.

    He wanted the British to continue to remain in power – while simultaneously complaining that they were succumbing to the machinations of the Brahmins.

    He once said
    “Hindu society as such does not exist. It is only a collection of castes. […] Indeed the ideal Hindu must be like a rat living in his own hole refusing to have any contact with others. […] There is no Hindu consciousness of kind. In every Hindu the consciousness that exists is the consciousness of his caste. That is the reason why the Hindus cannot be said to form a society or a nation. There are however many Indians whose patriotism does not permit them to admit that Indians are not a
    nation, that they are only an amorphous mass of people.”

    At times, Periyar issued blood-curdling threats to Brahmins, but in action he did not believe in violence. Many of his black-shirted followers were fine individuals personally. At the same time, Periyar was also paranoid that democracy would result in Brahmins completely taking over the reins of the government. His words: “India should never go anywhere near democratic principles. The reason is 90% of our population are fools and 97% of them are persons of low birth. How will their rule set right our country?” (Periyar’s writings compiled by Pasu. Gowthaman, vol. 4, 2017, p. 432)

    Another case in point followed in 1968, when, in Tanjore district, 44 Dalits were butchered by the goons of a landlord. Periyar commented on the murders thus: “So long as democracy exists, the honest will have no other option except to fade away, giving the dishonest room to dance around. The people of India are barbarians. The dharma of India is the dharma of criminal tribes. As long as the ones who follow Manu dharma exist, the nation will never have discipline, integrity, honesty and justice. India has gone into the hands of scoundrels after the departure of the British.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Malla

    [It would be much better not to have many different comment-threads devolve into very long disputes over India despite having only slight connection to the original articles.]
     
    I understand the moderator's concern, however it was denk who dragged us into this topic on Russia China relationships.
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  215. @Yee
    Daniel,

    How come people of different nationalities can defend their own countries, but when Chinese do it, they must have been paid to do so?

    And who the hell would waste 50 cents on a non-mainstream website? No offense to Mr. Unz.

    How come people of different nationalities can defend their own countries, but when Chinese do it, they must have been paid to do so?

    China has every reason to be proud of her achievements, and many of them are spectacular. What is happening here, at least on my part–is an attempt to give a realistic perspective on things and point out those aspects of Chinese development which she is yet to address. Those are precise aspects which are in the foundation of real superpowers. Just one example, when China stops buying SU-35, S-400s, cruise missiles etc. from Russia–sure, we may say that something clicked. But for now it didn’t, especially in aerospace and some crucial issues of naval engineering and weapons’ design. Some of those issues can not be rushed to be addressed and require painstaking growing and honing of a number of engineering, design and manufacturing schools. It is like in space exploration, just one example: Chinese man/days in space–165.35, Soviet Union/Russia–27, 031.16. See the difference–163 times more in USSR/Russia? China only now begins to get pass some newcomer status in several key human activities, in others–it remains such and will remain such for a while. It is a process. So, pointing out weaknesses is not an attempt to insult or humiliate–it is merely to give food for thought. China is only emerging now.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Joe Wong
    Don't take us wrong, Chinese bloggers have no intention to upset everybody here, Chinese bloggers are here to expose the lies told about China, clear the smear painted on China and correct the distorted facts with truth about China.

    The Westerners including the Russian have been misguided by their evil imperialist forebear far too long and the majority of them are totally living in a world with a mindset belonging to the past, stalled in the old days of colonialism, constrained by the zero-sum cold war mentality and detached from from reality.

    Indeed it is harmful to believe one's own reality based on the past, out of date and obsolete records, such nostalgia outlook is a sign of falling behind and feeling helplessness. So please do not take Chinese bloggers frankness as insult, rebuttal or lecturing.

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  216. Malla says:
    @Joe Wong
    Quoting Indian compradors as the representative of Indian freedom under the British overlord rule? The depth of mental colonization of Indians by the British is astonishing, Indians indeed are "best slaves," no wonder the British can rule hundreds of millions Indians with only few thousands of them.

    All the massacres the British thrust upon Indians must be for the benefits of Indians in your eyes, those bad Indians deserved to be butchered you must hailed. I guess you profoundly disapprove Mahatma Gandhi who wanted to worked with Nazi and unrepentant war criminal Japanese to kick the British out.

    It make sense now that the Indians see no contradiction in proclaiming they are largest democracy while maintaining inhumane caste system intact so they can abuse human beings by birth. Indians is funky double think, double talk morally defunct creatures, having toilets are not important buy spending billions to buy foreign weapons is.

    Indians indeed are “best slaves,” no wonder the British can rule hundreds of millions Indians with only few thousands of them.

    Again lack of understanding of Indian history a country far far more complicated than China ever was. In India we had Hindus and Muslims, who mostly hated each other. There were massive genocides done by Islamic hordes and Hindus armies fighting back devastated the land. At the same time, there were millions of lower caste dalits who were treated like shit by upper caste Hindus. The British were accepted because they were seen as neutral outsiders in a subcontinent which is the most complex in the world and brought peace in the subcontinent. There was no political unit called India but a collection of many Kingdoms.
    Besides that, the government was more or less incorruptible. Poor Indians would bribe court officials to have their case infront of a British judge rather than an Indian judge. not because they were awed by White skin and blue eyes but because the British had a reputation of being incorruptible and fair.

    And who got your Mao into power? Was it not the Rockefellars who funded/supported him. Even Stalin was against China going Communist, he was talking about breaking China up into Northern and Southern China at best but the Americans insisted that they want Mao towards the end of WW2.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Joe Wong
    [Too many comment-threads have recently become endless arguments about India, even if like this one the articles have very little to do with the topic. Additional comments along those lines may not be published.]

    It is amazing to see how a best slave view himself and his master, you surely open a lot eyes. Are you saying it is not true that Indian were adoring the British like living God, so that just few thousand of White British could rule hundreds of millions of Indians with ease?

    Indian claimed they won the 1962 war, Indian also claimed they gave UNSC seat to China, I am not surprised Indian is trying out doing their Anglo master with fake news in order to please their Anglo masters.

    Anyhow the White said India is in the form of radical militant Hinduism which is the world's most Degenerated, Duplicitous, and Debauched nation to have ever existed – carnage is happening today in India the likes of which has not been seen in thousands of years. When India and Pakistan were born and in its aftermath 100 million were killed and many more were displaced by the fascist Hindutva fanatics. India is the only caste system nation in the world that abuses human beings by birth, e.g. the higher caste can gang rape lower caste and lynch the victim afterwards as one of the caste privileges.

    Modi’s mentor, Bal Thackeray (died 2012) was a great admirer of Hitler. In fact, the basic philosophy of both Hindutva and Zionism is based on Hitler and Mussolini Fascism hidden under the so-called “Nationalism”. The principle agenda of Hindutva is to turn India into a “Hindu only” state, same as the occupied Muslim-majority is being turned into a “Jewish only” state by the Zionist Jews.

    The White says the British has a responsibility to go back to India to install some sanity back into Indian society by ruling it as a British Raj.
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  217. Joe Wong says:
    @polskijoe
    Central Asia, and some parts of North Asia (Siberia).
    were populated by IndoEuropeans, 2000-3000 years ago. Of course their were areas with Mongoloids too.
    then the Huns, and Mongols and Turks took over the land, and either killed or mixed with them.

    Instead to resorting to "who stole which land" focus on today.

    Are you saying it is wrong to tell what the real history is? And we must take the West’s words as given truth? Aren’t you kind of authoritarian?

    BTW Himalaya contains Indians in India that small pot of land, Indian has never moved out of that barrier. The Europeans do not consider the White Russian is European, then definitely the European has never lived East of Ural, in addition even the White Russian does not live east of Ural by themselves, so don’t claim credit where credit is not due like Europeans claiming North America and Australia as their god sent gift, Terra nullius, there was no IndoEuropean east of Ural and north of Himalaya.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Malla
    And who were these peoples

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythians
    In artworks, the Scythians are portrayed exhibiting European traits.[117] In Histories, the 5th-century Greek historian Herodotus describes the Budini of Scythia as red-haired and grey-eyed.[117] In the 5th century BC, Greek physician Hippocrates argued that the Scythians have purron (ruddy) skin.[117][118] In the 3rd century BC, the Greek poet Callimachus described the Arismapes (Arimaspi) of Scythia as fair-haired.[117][119] The 2nd century BC Han Chinese envoy Zhang Qian described the Sai (Scythians) as having yellow (probably meaning hazel or green), and blue eyes.[117] In Natural History, the 1st century AD Roman author Pliny the Elder characterises the Seres, sometimes identified as Iranians (Scythians) or Tocharians, as red-haired and blue-eyed.[117][120] In the late 2nd century AD, the Christian theologian Clement of Alexandria says that the Scythians are fair-haired.[117][121] The 2nd century Greek philosopher Polemon includes the Scythians among the northern peoples characterised by red hair and blue-grey eyes.[117] In the late 2nd or early 3rd century AD, the Greek physician Galen declares that Sarmatians, Scythians and other northern peoples have reddish hair.[117][122] The fourth-century Roman historian Ammianus Marcellinus wrote that the Alans, a people closely related to the Scythians, were tall, blond and light-eyed.[123] The 4th century bishop of Nyssa Gregory of Nyssa wrote that the Scythians were fair skinned and blond haired.[124] The 5th-century physician Adamantius, who often follow Polemon, describes the Scythians are fair-haired.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alans
    The name Alan is an Iranian dialectical form of Aryan, a common self-designation of the Indo-Iranians.

    Physical appearance
    The fourth-century Roman historian Ammianus Marcellinus wrote that the Alans were tall, and blond:

    Nearly all the Alani are men of great stature and beauty; their hair is somewhat yellow, their eyes are terribly fierce.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumans

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  218. Malla says:
    @Joe Wong
    Quoting Indian compradors as the representative of Indian freedom under the British overlord rule? The depth of mental colonization of Indians by the British is astonishing, Indians indeed are "best slaves," no wonder the British can rule hundreds of millions Indians with only few thousands of them.

    All the massacres the British thrust upon Indians must be for the benefits of Indians in your eyes, those bad Indians deserved to be butchered you must hailed. I guess you profoundly disapprove Mahatma Gandhi who wanted to worked with Nazi and unrepentant war criminal Japanese to kick the British out.

    It make sense now that the Indians see no contradiction in proclaiming they are largest democracy while maintaining inhumane caste system intact so they can abuse human beings by birth. Indians is funky double think, double talk morally defunct creatures, having toilets are not important buy spending billions to buy foreign weapons is.

    Indians is funky double think, double talk morally defunct creatures

    And the Chinese are paragons of morality? LOL

    buy spending billions to buy foreign weapons is

    That is for the Indian government to decide. If they want to buy weapons, they will and a billion plus Indians will support them. If they want to develop missiles to reach China, they will.

    https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/entire-china-could-soon-be-within-indias-n-strike-zone/articleshow/62561943.cms

    Entire China could soon be within India’s Nuclear Strike Zone
    India is a sovereign country, it will do what it wants. The Chinese do not decide our policies, never will. India is no Zimbabwe.

    Though I personally am not anti Chinese at all and would want India to be friendlier to China, I admire Chinese culture a lot, listen to Chinese classical music etc…. Am not happy with India going on the U.S. side as I distrust the U.S. government. Personally I have even challenged the anti Chinese attitudes of my Indian friends (who are rabidly anti Chinese thanks to crazy media propaganda) and have posted on Indian newspaper websites taking the Chinese point of view (which I felt was more right) on some issues. But the arrogance of some the Chinese I see on this page makes me want to reconsider everything. If most people in China are like you guys, I think the world is in danger of a rising China.

    Read More
    • Replies: @gT

    But the arrogance of some the Chinese I see on this page makes me want to reconsider everything. If most people in China are like you guys, I think the world is in danger of a rising China.
     
    100% Correct. Chinese are arrogant peasants, they now have for the first time, seen a little $$$$, and now they think they know and own and are superior to everything. And they all think the same way, I've never seen diverged views with regards to Tibet or the Uyghurs from a Chinese. It seems just as we are about to get rid of one problem, the NeoCon Anglo American Zionist bunch, another problem comes to the fore, the 'Chinese peasants with their big heads' (to quote another commentator). Thank goodness that right next to China there are a billion shit in the open'ers to help contain this menace :-). We just weren't meant to live in relaxed mode on this planet.
    , @Lin
    "That is for the Indian government to decide. If they want to buy weapons, they will and a billion plus Indians will support them. If they want to develop missiles to reach China, they will.."
    "..Entire China could soon be within India’s Nuclear Strike Zone
    India is a sovereign country, it will do what it wants. The Chinese do not decide our policies, never will. India is no Zimbabwe.."
    .........
    If india with 1/5th of china's GDP wants to spend 2.5-2.6% of GDP on military(as against china's 1.9-2.0%), go ahead (nos. from Sipri). Let me rephrase it:
    "That is for the Pak government to decide. If they want to buy weapons, they will and 180 millions plus Paks will support them. If they want to develop missiles to reach India, they will.."
    "..Entire India could soon be within Pakistan’s Nuclear Strike Zone
    Pakistan is a sovereign country, it will do what it wants. The Indians do not decide our policies, never will. Pakistan is no Sikkim.."
    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/jim-luce/in-sri-lanka-explaining-t_b_211249.html
    , @britishbrainsize1325cclol
    Take it as a sign of respect chinese fear your business acumen and ability to save money, in many ways chinese and indians are very much alike but your ability to bullshit doublespeak and make it sound like the truth like whites, is what the chinese would like to be able to do but is just not able to hence the jealously.
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  219. Malla says:
    @Malla
    [It would be much better not to have many different comment-threads devolve into very long disputes over India despite having only slight connection to the original articles.]

    Mental colonisation? Commie brain washing is astounding. The life of an average Indian was just as normal as it is in today's free India. The British Raj never sent us to labour camps for 'reeducation'
    nor restricted our movement within British India. There were more freedoms within British India for Indians than under any Communist government on earth. People lived their lives as they saw fit.

    It make sense now that the Indians see no contradiction in proclaiming they are largest democracy while maintaining inhumane caste system intact so they can abuse human beings by birth.
     
    You fool, the British Empire emancipated the lower castes against tyrannical rule of upper caste Hindus as well as all Hindus from brutal Islamic rule.

    Jyoti Rao Phule

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jyotirao_Phule

    Jyotirao Govindrao Phule[a] (11 April 1827 – 28 November 1890) was an Indian social activist, a thinker, anti-caste social reformer and writer from Maharashtra.[2][3]

    His work extended to many fields including eradication of untouchability and the caste system, women’s emancipation and the reform of Hindu family life. On September 1873, Phule, along with his followers, formed the Satyashodhak Samaj (Society of Seekers of Truth) to attain equal rights for people from lower castes. Phule is regarded as an important figure of the social reform movement in Maharashtra He and his wife, Savitribai Phule, were pioneers of women’s education in India.

    http://egyankosh.ac.in/bitstream/123456789/20647/1/Unit-12.pdf

    British rule had brought to an end the tyranny and chaos of the regime of the last Peshwa in Maharashtra. The colonial rulers had not only established law and order but also the principle of equality before law. The earlier regime of Brahmin Peshwas had imposed strict limitations on education, occupation arid living standards of the lower castes and women. The new rulers opened the 1 opportunities in education and mobility in occupation for the members of all castes. Missionary schools and government colleges were ready to admit any student irrespective of caste origins. New ideas of equality and liberty could reach the moderately educated sections of the lower caste. Phule was probably the best product of this process. High caste reformers and leaders also had welcomed the colonial rule. It is not surprising that Phule who was concerned with the slavery of the lower castes also favoured British Rule He hoped that the new government which believes in equality between man and man would emancipate lower castes, from the domination of the Brahmins.
    The British rule opened up new employment opportunities in the administration. The political power at local level was also being given to the Indians. Phule who had worked as a member of the Poona Municipality could visualise how lower castes wouid be able to acquire power at local level during the period of British rule and also enter the colonial bureaucracy. He believed in Colonialism, Cast Order and the Tribal Societies the benevolent attitude of the British rulers towards the lower castes and therefore asked for a number of things from them. He was not sure how long the British rule would continue. Therefore, he wanted lower castes to exploit the opportunity and get rid of the tyranny of Brahmins. Brahmin rulers used to collect huge wealth out of taxes levied on poor lower castes population, but never used to spend even a paisa (penny, cent) for their welfare. On the contrary, the new regime was showing the signs of doing good things for the deprived people. Phule assured the colonial rulers that if the Shudras were made happy and contented, they need not worry about the loyalty of the subjects. He wanted the British government to abolish Brahmin Kulkarni’s position, and a post of village headman (Patil) filled on the basis of merit. In fact, Phule would have liked the British government to put an end to the balutedary system which was connected with caste specific occupations in the villages. He asked the government to make laws prohibiting customs and practices which gave subordinate status to women and untouchables. Phule wanted Brahmin bureaucracy to be replaced by non-Brahmin bureaucracy. But if the non-Brahmins were not available, the government should appoint, he thought, the British men to these posts. He believed that the British officers would take impartial view and were likely to side with lower castes.
    He knew that education had not yet percolated to the lower castes. The masses had not yet become politically conscious. The high caste elites were claiming that they were the true representatives of the people and therefore weie demanding political rights. This process, Phule thought, would reestablish the political supremacy of the high castes. Phule advised his followers from the lower castes not to participate the-movement for political rights. He argued that
    the Indian National Congress or other political associations were not national in the true sense of the term because they represented only high castes. Phule warned his followers against the selfish and cunning motives of the Brahmins in forming these associations and advised them to keep themselves away from such associations. In his Satya Shodhak Samaj, he had made it a rule not to discuss politics. In fact, we find that he had expressed more than once a complete and total loyalty towards the new government. He firmly believed that the almighty God had dethroned the tyrannical rulers and had established in their place a just, enlightened and peaceful British rule for the welfare of the masses.

    Also

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periyar_E._V._Ramasamy

    “The Jews are only interested in themselves, and nobody else. They somehow contrive to have the rulers in their pocket, participate in governance and conspire to torture and suck the lives out of other citizens in order that they live (in comfort).” These blatantly anti-Jewish lines were penned on March 20, 1938.
    These are the next lines: “Are they not comparable to the Brahmins who too have no responsibility but have the rulers in their pocket, have entered the ruling dispensation and been lording over (all of us)?”

    This is Periyar E.V. Ramasamy writing in his magazine Kudiyarasu, and he is being unusually mild here. (Naan Sonnal Unakku Yen Kopam Vara Vendum, vol. 4, p. 532, compiled by Pasu. Gowthaman)


    In all his agitations – and he had many – the lowest common denominator was the Brahmin. Even while criticising non-Brahmin national leaders like Gandhi, Subhash Chandra Bose and Sardar Vallabhai Patel, Periyar said that they were all victims of a Brahmin conspiracy. He said, that Gandhi was killed by Brahmins because Gandhi was turning into a Periyar himself! Periyar and his disciples attributed grand conspiracies and clever manipulations by Brahmins for the plight of the non-Brahmins.

    Periyar’s was an attack on brahminical ideas of ‘philosophy’. For him philosophy was not a specific intellectual activity of the Brahmins and nor were they considered to be specialists or professionals above the masses. He forced the subalterns to understand that the Brahmanical conception of the world is something external to the organic intellectual world of the masses. His refusal to take part in Brahmanical discourses of language and his dismissal of epics like the Ramayana or Mahabharata
    has to be seen in this context.

    Periyar’s conviction was that after the end of British rule , independent India, under what he believed would be Brahmin rule, would be worse if there were not adequate checks and balances to curtail the dominance of the Brahmin castes. He gave credit to the agency of the native elite castes for using colonial institutions and bureaucracy to their own advantage. Anti-colonialist theorists like Frantz Fanon and Amilcar Cabral too have taken similar approaches to the native elites, of
    course in their own contexts.

    He wanted the British to continue to remain in power – while simultaneously complaining that they were succumbing to the machinations of the Brahmins.

    He once said
    “Hindu society as such does not exist. It is only a collection of castes. […] Indeed the ideal Hindu must be like a rat living in his own hole refusing to have any contact with others. […] There is no Hindu consciousness of kind. In every Hindu the consciousness that exists is the consciousness of his caste. That is the reason why the Hindus cannot be said to form a society or a nation. There are however many Indians whose patriotism does not permit them to admit that Indians are not a
    nation, that they are only an amorphous mass of people.”

    At times, Periyar issued blood-curdling threats to Brahmins, but in action he did not believe in violence. Many of his black-shirted followers were fine individuals personally. At the same time, Periyar was also paranoid that democracy would result in Brahmins completely taking over the reins of the government. His words: “India should never go anywhere near democratic principles. The reason is 90% of our population are fools and 97% of them are persons of low birth. How will their rule set right our country?” (Periyar’s writings compiled by Pasu. Gowthaman, vol. 4, 2017, p. 432)

    Another case in point followed in 1968, when, in Tanjore district, 44 Dalits were butchered by the goons of a landlord. Periyar commented on the murders thus: “So long as democracy exists, the honest will have no other option except to fade away, giving the dishonest room to dance around. The people of India are barbarians. The dharma of India is the dharma of criminal tribes. As long as the ones who follow Manu dharma exist, the nation will never have discipline, integrity, honesty and justice. India has gone into the hands of scoundrels after the departure of the British.”

    [It would be much better not to have many different comment-threads devolve into very long disputes over India despite having only slight connection to the original articles.]

    I understand the moderator’s concern, however it was denk who dragged us into this topic on Russia China relationships.

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  220. Joe Wong says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    How come people of different nationalities can defend their own countries, but when Chinese do it, they must have been paid to do so?
     
    China has every reason to be proud of her achievements, and many of them are spectacular. What is happening here, at least on my part--is an attempt to give a realistic perspective on things and point out those aspects of Chinese development which she is yet to address. Those are precise aspects which are in the foundation of real superpowers. Just one example, when China stops buying SU-35, S-400s, cruise missiles etc. from Russia--sure, we may say that something clicked. But for now it didn't, especially in aerospace and some crucial issues of naval engineering and weapons' design. Some of those issues can not be rushed to be addressed and require painstaking growing and honing of a number of engineering, design and manufacturing schools. It is like in space exploration, just one example: Chinese man/days in space--165.35, Soviet Union/Russia--27, 031.16. See the difference--163 times more in USSR/Russia? China only now begins to get pass some newcomer status in several key human activities, in others--it remains such and will remain such for a while. It is a process. So, pointing out weaknesses is not an attempt to insult or humiliate--it is merely to give food for thought. China is only emerging now.

    Don’t take us wrong, Chinese bloggers have no intention to upset everybody here, Chinese bloggers are here to expose the lies told about China, clear the smear painted on China and correct the distorted facts with truth about China.

    The Westerners including the Russian have been misguided by their evil imperialist forebear far too long and the majority of them are totally living in a world with a mindset belonging to the past, stalled in the old days of colonialism, constrained by the zero-sum cold war mentality and detached from from reality.

    Indeed it is harmful to believe one’s own reality based on the past, out of date and obsolete records, such nostalgia outlook is a sign of falling behind and feeling helplessness. So please do not take Chinese bloggers frankness as insult, rebuttal or lecturing.

    Read More
    • Replies: @CanSpeccy

    Chinese bloggers have no intention to upset everybody here, Chinese bloggers are here to expose the lies told about China, clear the smear painted on China and correct the distorted facts with truth about China.
     
    Perhaps China needs to open a school for bloggers so they don't all sound like hasbarists without a clue how anyone but a brainwashed ChiCom thinks.
    , @Sergey Krieger
    You are very gifted man. You can write a lot about nothing.

    Just one friendly advice. Stop moralizing and patronizing. Chinese have a lot skeletons in the closet as well. You happen to be just more inept at what Europeans have been doing since ancient Greece times.

    China tried to expand many times alas without much success. Hence so much anguish.
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  221. Malla says:
    @Joe Wong
    Are you saying it is wrong to tell what the real history is? And we must take the West's words as given truth? Aren't you kind of authoritarian?

    BTW Himalaya contains Indians in India that small pot of land, Indian has never moved out of that barrier. The Europeans do not consider the White Russian is European, then definitely the European has never lived East of Ural, in addition even the White Russian does not live east of Ural by themselves, so don't claim credit where credit is not due like Europeans claiming North America and Australia as their god sent gift, Terra nullius, there was no IndoEuropean east of Ural and north of Himalaya.

    And who were these peoples

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythians

    In artworks, the Scythians are portrayed exhibiting European traits.[117] In Histories, the 5th-century Greek historian Herodotus describes the Budini of Scythia as red-haired and grey-eyed.[117] In the 5th century BC, Greek physician Hippocrates argued that the Scythians have purron (ruddy) skin.[117][118] In the 3rd century BC, the Greek poet Callimachus described the Arismapes (Arimaspi) of Scythia as fair-haired.[117][119] The 2nd century BC Han Chinese envoy Zhang Qian described the Sai (Scythians) as having yellow (probably meaning hazel or green), and blue eyes.[117] In Natural History, the 1st century AD Roman author Pliny the Elder characterises the Seres, sometimes identified as Iranians (Scythians) or Tocharians, as red-haired and blue-eyed.[117][120] In the late 2nd century AD, the Christian theologian Clement of Alexandria says that the Scythians are fair-haired.[117][121] The 2nd century Greek philosopher Polemon includes the Scythians among the northern peoples characterised by red hair and blue-grey eyes.[117] In the late 2nd or early 3rd century AD, the Greek physician Galen declares that Sarmatians, Scythians and other northern peoples have reddish hair.[117][122] The fourth-century Roman historian Ammianus Marcellinus wrote that the Alans, a people closely related to the Scythians, were tall, blond and light-eyed.[123] The 4th century bishop of Nyssa Gregory of Nyssa wrote that the Scythians were fair skinned and blond haired.[124] The 5th-century physician Adamantius, who often follow Polemon, describes the Scythians are fair-haired.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alans

    The name Alan is an Iranian dialectical form of Aryan, a common self-designation of the Indo-Iranians.

    Physical appearance
    The fourth-century Roman historian Ammianus Marcellinus wrote that the Alans were tall, and blond:

    Nearly all the Alani are men of great stature and beauty; their hair is somewhat yellow, their eyes are terribly fierce.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumans

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  222. @Ilyana_Rozumova
    You are a total idiot. Siberia is a stolen land? From whom? Siberia was always virgin land.
    And most of Siberia is still a virgin land where human still do not have a footprint.
    Russians were the least aggressive Slavic tribe who were pushed to utmost north, but they never new that it will be to their benefit, Now they are reaping the benefit of their mild character. The largest area of surface of the earth full of immense riches of natural resources extent of which is still not determined. For Russians it is like gift from God being docile and accommodating.

    And yet Elizabeth ordered the Genocide of the Chukchis.

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    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
    You are absolutely correct. GFY
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  223. Joe Wong says:
    @Malla

    Indians indeed are “best slaves,” no wonder the British can rule hundreds of millions Indians with only few thousands of them.
     
    Again lack of understanding of Indian history a country far far more complicated than China ever was. In India we had Hindus and Muslims, who mostly hated each other. There were massive genocides done by Islamic hordes and Hindus armies fighting back devastated the land. At the same time, there were millions of lower caste dalits who were treated like shit by upper caste Hindus. The British were accepted because they were seen as neutral outsiders in a subcontinent which is the most complex in the world and brought peace in the subcontinent. There was no political unit called India but a collection of many Kingdoms.
    Besides that, the government was more or less incorruptible. Poor Indians would bribe court officials to have their case infront of a British judge rather than an Indian judge. not because they were awed by White skin and blue eyes but because the British had a reputation of being incorruptible and fair.

    And who got your Mao into power? Was it not the Rockefellars who funded/supported him. Even Stalin was against China going Communist, he was talking about breaking China up into Northern and Southern China at best but the Americans insisted that they want Mao towards the end of WW2.

    [Too many comment-threads have recently become endless arguments about India, even if like this one the articles have very little to do with the topic. Additional comments along those lines may not be published.]

    It is amazing to see how a best slave view himself and his master, you surely open a lot eyes. Are you saying it is not true that Indian were adoring the British like living God, so that just few thousand of White British could rule hundreds of millions of Indians with ease?

    [MORE]

    Indian claimed they won the 1962 war, Indian also claimed they gave UNSC seat to China, I am not surprised Indian is trying out doing their Anglo master with fake news in order to please their Anglo masters.

    Anyhow the White said India is in the form of radical militant Hinduism which is the world’s most Degenerated, Duplicitous, and Debauched nation to have ever existed – carnage is happening today in India the likes of which has not been seen in thousands of years. When India and Pakistan were born and in its aftermath 100 million were killed and many more were displaced by the fascist Hindutva fanatics. India is the only caste system nation in the world that abuses human beings by birth, e.g. the higher caste can gang rape lower caste and lynch the victim afterwards as one of the caste privileges.

    Modi’s mentor, Bal Thackeray (died 2012) was a great admirer of Hitler. In fact, the basic philosophy of both Hindutva and Zionism is based on Hitler and Mussolini Fascism hidden under the so-called “Nationalism”. The principle agenda of Hindutva is to turn India into a “Hindu only” state, same as the occupied Muslim-majority is being turned into a “Jewish only” state by the Zionist Jews.

    The White says the British has a responsibility to go back to India to install some sanity back into Indian society by ruling it as a British Raj.

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    • Replies: @Malla
    And the Chinese are sure smart to follow a Rockefellar Yale agent Mao using a foreign concept like Communism to kill tens of millions of their own people and destroying loads of their own cultural monuments. Sure smart.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1Ofep13FY4

    Joseph Stalin's reluctance to create Communist China

    Communist China was nothing more than an experiment by the Western banker elites to create a slave society for future capitalists which it has become today.

    “Whatever the price of the Chinese Revolution, it has obviously succeeded, not only in producing more efficient and dedicated administration, but also in fostering a high morale and community propose. The social experiment in China under Chairman Mao’s leadership is one of the most important and successful in human history.”

    – David Rockefeller, New York Times, 1973
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  224. @Robert Magill

    Say, crude (just for the sake of argument). A single train–three pullers and about, say 100 cisterns.
     
    I didn't realize that much crude was being shipped out of London. Thanks for the heads up.

    What's the tonnage comparisons of bed pillows and mattresses?

    Trans European freight trains are limited to 2000 tonnes. And the channel tunnel costs as much as the journey from Voronezh to Calais. I’ve checked.

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    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
    Ha! Kudos to you--you just answered the most important question.
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  225. @Philip Owen
    And yet Elizabeth ordered the Genocide of the Chukchis.

    You are absolutely correct. GFY

    Read More
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  226. Joe Wong says:
    @CanSpeccy

    The American and their Western partners want to keep both Uyghur and Tibetan proxies going ...
     
    Well obviously. The West doesn't wish to see the world's most populous nation, with arguably the world's largest economy, continually expanding its empire, so the West joins with those whom the Chinese have occupied and ruthlessly oppress.

    You should know bombing, killing and waterboarding on the fabricated phantom WMD allegation as humanitarian intervention is a fallacy, the West particular the American lies, they lie about the present, about the past, even about future. They lie day and night, relentlessly.

    Their founding dogmas are based on deception, their history on false pathos and insincere heroism. The West has lied enough, and their credibility has bankrupted; nobody believes the West, it is the cause of their decline.

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    • Replies: @CanSpeccy

    the American lies, they lie about the present, about the past, even about future.
     
    Well of course. What you're missing is that everyone lies. The only difference between the Americans and the Chinese is that the Americans have more to lie about. But the Chinese are working to close the gap. Meantime, they lie through their teeth about ethnic cleansing of Tibetans and the Uyghurs.
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  227. Yee says:

    CanSpeccy,

    “why doesn’t China conduct an internationally supervised referendum on the issue to reassure the world that the Tibetans love Chinese occupation.”

    There’re 5.5 million Tibetans in China, 52% of them live in Tibet, the rest 48% live in Sichuan, Yunnan, Gansu, Qinghai etc., I’m not sure who have been mass migrating to whose land. Tibet is 92% Tibetan.

    Why should China need to reassure the world on the issue? I havn’t seen the US conduct “internationally supervised referendum” to reassure the world on anything.

    Read More
    • Replies: @CanSpeccy

    Why should China need to reassure the world on the issue?
     
    Oh, I assure no one gives a damn about the Tibetans.

    The reason for a referendum would be to see what the Tibetans actually want: their independence back, or ethnic cleansing by Commie Chinese.

    But then I suppose to state the question states the answer too.

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  228. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @CanSpeccy

    BTW Tsar Nicholas II was Queen Victoria’s grandson, and Russians and Anglo are the royal subjects of their Monarchs, it is not too far to generalize the Russian and the Anglo are alike
     
    So the Russian Tsar, who had hardly a drop of Russian blood, married a grandson of the English Queen, who had hardly a drop of English blood, which proves that an Englishman is the same as a Russian.

    Does this make sense to anyone? Maybe your aggressive co-propagandists for Chinese supremacy, Dunk, agrees.

    Oops! Some confusion there about generations and gender. But the point I was trying to make was that neither Russia’s Romanov dynasty, nor Britain’s Hanoverian royal family were of mainly indigenous stock. Both were largely German.

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    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    Some confusion there about generations and gender
     
    This sounds disturbing on so many levels, LOL.
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  229. @Philip Owen
    Trans European freight trains are limited to 2000 tonnes. And the channel tunnel costs as much as the journey from Voronezh to Calais. I've checked.

    Ha! Kudos to you–you just answered the most important question.

    Read More
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  230. @CanSpeccy
    Oops! Some confusion there about generations and gender. But the point I was trying to make was that neither Russia’s Romanov dynasty, nor Britain’s Hanoverian royal family were of mainly indigenous stock. Both were largely German.

    Some confusion there about generations and gender

    This sounds disturbing on so many levels, LOL.

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    • LOL: CanSpeccy
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  231. CanSpeccy says:
    @Kiza
    Let us hope so.

    But let me pretend that I am smart and let me posit Kiza’s Second Law of Human Nature: whenever things are going in the wrong direction, first find out whose interest is pushing them in that direction, and only then try to change the direction.

    In other words, things never go in the wrong direction on their own.

    Pretty elementary I know.

    Things never go in the wrong direction on their own…

    Not sure what you mean, by “on their own”. Elites seem to lose control on a fairly regular basis. The French Revolution, the American Revolution, the Russian Revolution, the popular overthrow of Poland’s puppet Communist regime, which made clear to all and sundry that Communism is not a dictatorship of the proletariat, but a tyranny over the proletariat, a realization that made the collapse of the Soviet Union inevitable.

    The thing is, elites become inbred, nepotistic, decadent, lazy and stupid. We see that now in the US, Europe and probably also China, a country ruled by corrupt “Communist” billionaire descendants of the revolutionary generation.

    The interesting question, it seems to me, is not whether another revolution is on its way, but where and when the next revolution will occur. Trump may stave off American decay and disintegration and set the country on a more viable course, or he may prove simply a momentary distraction, possibly eve a creature of the deep state.

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    • Agree: bluedog
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  232. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Joe Wong
    You should know bombing, killing and waterboarding on the fabricated phantom WMD allegation as humanitarian intervention is a fallacy, the West particular the American lies, they lie about the present, about the past, even about future. They lie day and night, relentlessly.

    Their founding dogmas are based on deception, their history on false pathos and insincere heroism. The West has lied enough, and their credibility has bankrupted; nobody believes the West, it is the cause of their decline.

    the American lies, they lie about the present, about the past, even about future.

    Well of course. What you’re missing is that everyone lies. The only difference between the Americans and the Chinese is that the Americans have more to lie about. But the Chinese are working to close the gap. Meantime, they lie through their teeth about ethnic cleansing of Tibetans and the Uyghurs.

    Read More
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  233. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Yee
    CanSpeccy,

    "why doesn’t China conduct an internationally supervised referendum on the issue to reassure the world that the Tibetans love Chinese occupation."

    There're 5.5 million Tibetans in China, 52% of them live in Tibet, the rest 48% live in Sichuan, Yunnan, Gansu, Qinghai etc., I'm not sure who have been mass migrating to whose land. Tibet is 92% Tibetan.

    Why should China need to reassure the world on the issue? I havn't seen the US conduct "internationally supervised referendum" to reassure the world on anything.

    Why should China need to reassure the world on the issue?

    Oh, I assure no one gives a damn about the Tibetans.

    The reason for a referendum would be to see what the Tibetans actually want: their independence back, or ethnic cleansing by Commie Chinese.

    But then I suppose to state the question states the answer too.

    Read More
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  234. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Joe Wong
    Don't take us wrong, Chinese bloggers have no intention to upset everybody here, Chinese bloggers are here to expose the lies told about China, clear the smear painted on China and correct the distorted facts with truth about China.

    The Westerners including the Russian have been misguided by their evil imperialist forebear far too long and the majority of them are totally living in a world with a mindset belonging to the past, stalled in the old days of colonialism, constrained by the zero-sum cold war mentality and detached from from reality.

    Indeed it is harmful to believe one's own reality based on the past, out of date and obsolete records, such nostalgia outlook is a sign of falling behind and feeling helplessness. So please do not take Chinese bloggers frankness as insult, rebuttal or lecturing.

    Chinese bloggers have no intention to upset everybody here, Chinese bloggers are here to expose the lies told about China, clear the smear painted on China and correct the distorted facts with truth about China.

    Perhaps China needs to open a school for bloggers so they don’t all sound like hasbarists without a clue how anyone but a brainwashed ChiCom thinks.

    Read More
    • Replies: @utu
    I am not sure whether Joe Wong knows it but he does an excellent job for the other side. After reading his posts even the most naive idealist who entertains an idea that life under Chinese masters would offer an improvement over the current ones will have a moment of refection. I am also sure that Andrei Martyanov works as writer of articles and notes extolling Russia's military prowess is appreciated by the MIC. After reading his articles and comments about advantages of Russian weaponry even the most staunch pacifist will be willing to tax himself and send more money to Pentagon. The missile gap, the submarine gap,...
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  235. I do not understand: why do we use a standard rail distance of 1.42m, which hasn’t been changed since the Roman Empire, or even before? Knowing that a standard train carries about 1000t, it is easy to calculate that a 3x bigger train would carry 30.000 tons, like a very good ship. And I am sure it could run 300-400km/h with no problems.

    A net of such railways may be established over all continents. Trains would be “earth-ships”, but 10x faster, and they would end their journeys in the existing harbors, which are equipped to reload the goods to the trucks and standard trains.

    Just imagine rail-to-rail distance 4.5m, width and height of a wagon: 7.5/7.5m, and the length of 45m. That would allow establishing cruiser-hotel-trains finally ))

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    • Replies: @CanSpeccy

    Knowing that a standard train carries about 1000t, it is easy to calculate that a 3x bigger train would carry 30.000 tons
     
    The main issue, surely, is cost per ton mile. If rail is cheap enough, just run more trains and it's a faster alternative to ocean transport — provided that there's some land to run the trains on.

    The problem, though, with oil trains is their tendency to derail and burn.

    As for your 300,000 ton mega-oil-train rocketing by at 400 kph, a derailment would cause the environmental disaster of the century — til the next derailment.

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  236. It is obvious Russians are trying hard to reestablish their Empire. In this plan, they make great efforts to return Central Asian republics into Russian reign, and it is true that OBOR can interrupt them in their activities.

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    • LOL: Andrei Martyanov
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    Behind the context of Chinese/Russian relations is of course the discourse about Chinese and Russian empire building projects. For the time being, both Russia and China are content with maintaining a status quo, perhaps even a deepening of their relations, but sooner or later their interests will clash, most assuredly in the Central Asian Republics, as you point out. The Silk Road project is just the precursor to this confrontation, perhaps a Chinese Trojan horse disguised as a boon to Eurasian commerce and cultural relations. Then of course, there's always the threat of Chinese/Russian confrontations over border issues in the Far East of 'Russia', lands that must count heavily in any true definition of China's ambitions to return to the status of an expanding empire, as it already is reclaiming these lands daily, slowly but surely, by increasing its ethnic composition there, to the detriment of the ethnic Russian presence. But it's not only in the Far East and Central Asia that China is making strides to increase its economic and cultural presence.

    While Moscow's inept policy making and foreign policy wonks have managed to totally screw up relations with neighboring Ukraine, China has steadily been increasing its presence there. The article that I'm citing's title is a bit misleading, as the content within clearly indicates, and should be retitled: 'As China Invests in Ukraine - Ukraine Stands to Gain':


    Also known as the “New Silk Road,” the One Belt, One Road initiative is Chinese President Xi Jinping’s foreign policy mantelpiece. Accordingly, Beijing wants Ukraine to become a stable, reliable partner through which Chinese goods can flow into Europe...To that end, during his visit to Kyiv, Kai announced plans for $7 billion in joint projects between China and Ukraine. In turn, Groysman announced that 2019 would be the “year of China” in Ukraine...Over the first nine months of 2017, trade between Ukraine and China increased by 14.5 percent—reaching about $5.6 billion. Ukrainian agriculture exports have contributed to the boost in trade. Ukraine has taken over from the U.S. as China’s top supplier of corn. Five years ago, the U.S. supplied about 97 percent of corn imported by China. Today, roughly 95 percent of it comes from Ukraine. China is now the top purchaser of military equipment from Ukraine, totaling $90 million in sales in 2016. China has already had a hand in rebuilding Ukraine’s transportation infrastructure, underscoring the importance of Ukraine to the One Belt, One Road initiative. Kyiv has awarded multiple contracts worth tens of millions of euros for Chinese companies to upgrade Ukrainian highways. Beyond roadwork, Beijing has plans for a $400 million passenger railway connecting Kyiv Boryspil International Airport and Kyiv. And a Chinese company has been dredging Ukraine’s Yuzhny port, the country’s busiest. China is also investing in other sectors of Ukraine’s economy. Ivan Miroshnichenko, a Ukrainian member of parliament, told Ukrainian media that China could invest $8 to $12 billion in Ukraine over the next five years. Last week, Chinese officials expressed interest in purchasing aircraft from Ukraine’s Antonov aircraft manufacturing company, as well as licensing Chinese companies to produce spare parts for any aircraft China buys. (Antonov recently cut itself off from all Russian part suppliers.)

    China may want to set a historical precedent in Ukraine by nudging the country back into Russia’s orbit, as Cheng suggested. Although, Beijing may not ultimately see Ukraine’s fate as an either-or choice between Russia and the West, as Moscow does. “I think Beijing looks at this from a different prism,” Tsang, the Chatham House fellow, said. “It does not want Ukraine back in Russia’s orbit, but it does not want to see Ukraine in Western Europe’s orbit either. It prefers Ukraine put a higher priority in developing its relationship with China.”
     

    http://dailysignal.com/2017/12/08/as-china-invests-in-ukraine-russia-stands-to-gain/?utm_source=TDS_Email
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  237. utu says:
    @CanSpeccy

    Chinese bloggers have no intention to upset everybody here, Chinese bloggers are here to expose the lies told about China, clear the smear painted on China and correct the distorted facts with truth about China.
     
    Perhaps China needs to open a school for bloggers so they don't all sound like hasbarists without a clue how anyone but a brainwashed ChiCom thinks.

    I am not sure whether Joe Wong knows it but he does an excellent job for the other side. After reading his posts even the most naive idealist who entertains an idea that life under Chinese masters would offer an improvement over the current ones will have a moment of refection. I am also sure that Andrei Martyanov works as writer of articles and notes extolling Russia’s military prowess is appreciated by the MIC. After reading his articles and comments about advantages of Russian weaponry even the most staunch pacifist will be willing to tax himself and send more money to Pentagon. The missile gap, the submarine gap,…

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    • Replies: @peterAUS
    Yup.

    I've been wondering, actually, about this "Joe Wong" handle here.
    Feels as, almost, some "Chinese hater" pushing his perception of the "true Chinese".

    But, then, that's what free speech is all about. Give people to express their true selves and some just jump on it.

    Not bad to see that other/real side of a Chinese here.

    Reminds me of a .......colored.....fighters against racism. The rage, the hatred.....the desire to smash the "whitey".

    Or a feminist. Starts with male oppression of females in past....and then, again, the pure hatred spills out.

    Good.
    , @Andrei Martyanov

    After reading his articles and comments about advantages of Russian weaponry
     
    You see, Peter AUS is your level, so reconcile yourself with your pathetic ignorance (and most likely some inferiority complex) and try to stop posting platitudes. Nobody is responsible but you for you being no good at anything but some pretentious crap. Learn something of value in this life. You wouldn't know any single metric which defines "advantage" or otherwise of any weapon system, be it Russian, Chinese or American. Why don't you try your "expertise" at proctologists' forums, I am sure your opinions will have about the same weight there;-)
    , @CanSpeccy
    Yes. But then as PeterAUS notes, I may have been had.
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