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Dresden, Germany, February, 1945
Dresden, Germany, February, 1945

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It was Shrove Tuesday, 1945 in the magnificent German art city of Dresden, which was packed with helpless Christian refugees fleeing the Red Army of the Stalinist USSR. Dresden’s native Lutheran and Catholic children, dressed in their festive Saxon folk costumes, were aboard a train taking them home after Mardi Gras parties at different points in the far-flung city. Still merry from the night’s festivities, they cavorted on the train prior to Ash Wednesday, February 14, and the solemnities that would be observed even in wartime, in memory of the passion and death of Jesus. In the sky Allied fighter planes caught sight of the civilian train and opened fire on the children inside, whose blood was soon pouring out of the wreckage.

This carnage registers almost not at all in the American mind. The holocaust in Dresden, lasting two days and killing at least 100,000 people, like the atomic holocaust in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, usually merits not much more than a few sentences or a single paragraph in the back pages of metropolitan newspapers, unlike “Yom HaShoah (יום השואה) Holocaust Remembrance Day,” in April, which is observed with countless civic, educational and media events, hosannahs, apologies and genuflections, from the Vatican to the White House. The barely remembered German and Japanese victims of Allied war crimes were of the wrong race and religion.

In the spring of 1945, after prosecuting the bombing holocaust against every major German city, and with the end of the Second World War in sight in Europe, Winston Churchill began to consider his reputation in the post-war period, when the 500,000 German innocents he ordered incinerated could come back to haunt him and stain his prestige. On March 28, 1945 he issued a deceitful, back-stabbing memo blaming the mass incineration on his own Bomber Command and by insinuation, upon its commander Arthur Harris, whose force would be denied a post-war campaign medal, and Harris a peerage. Harris and Bomber Command had been only following Winston Churchill’s explicit orders, yet Churchill attempted to shift responsibility onto the corps of airmen who had suffered among the highest casualties of any branch of the British military.

Churchill, like many others, endeavored to blame Germany for being the first to saturate civilians with terror-bombs —at Guernica in Spain on behalf of Franco’s forces, and in Rotterdam, during the war with Holland. In both cases Churchill stated that thousands had been killed. Even one death is regrettable of course, but less than 100 people were killed in Guernica according to historian David Irving, and less than a thousand in Rotterdam, when the Luftwafe accidentally struck a margarine factory and the flammable liquid burned houses nearby. Churchill had said “thousands” died in Guernica, and that 30,000 perished in Rotterdam, which is more than what Deborah Lipstadt says died in the two-day inferno in Dresden (the absurdly low figure of 25,000 is now the officially fixed count to which the “news media” comform without deviation).

The Germans had pledged not to be the first to bomb civilian centers in Britain. Churchill had hoped they would carpet bomb London to give him the excuse to silence the large peace movement in England which was dogging him in 1940, at a time when the Germans had not dropped a single bomb on London, almost a year after Britain had declared war on Germany. The British Prime Minister obtained his pretext toward the end of August, 1940, when a lone, wayward German bomber “lost its way flying up the Thames” river. It had orders to attack an oil refinery, but instead dropped its bombs on London’s East End. No one was killed thankfully, but Churchill was elated. He had the excuse he needed to massively retaliate against Berlin, knowing Hitler would respond in kind, and that the British peace movement would vanish in the smoke and flames of the “Battle of Britain” and the “Blitz.” Churchill ordered a hundred bombers to attack Berlin. Royal Air Force (RAF) commanders warned him that the Luftwaffe would do the same to London.

At this juncture we pause to contemplate the bloody treason that was at the heart of Churchill’s soul: he wanted as many of his own English civilians in London to die as possible, so he could point to their deaths as the justification for a total war against Germany, and he succeeded in his objective.

Some of the victims of the Allied holocaust in Dresden

Some of the victims of the Allied holocaust in Dresden

To this day the war crime the leaders of Britain and the United States perpetrated in Dresden is justified on the basis of the tired fable that “Germany did it first to Rotterdam and Guernica,” and “Look at the terror the Germans visited upon London.” Nothing that occurred in Guernica, Rotterdam, or for that matter London, begins to even approach the scale of the holocaust that the firebombs of the air forces of Churchill and Franklin Roosevelt inflicted on Dresden.

On September 4, 1940 Hitler gave a speech in which he stated that if the “mad drunkard” Churchill continued to attack Berlin, the Germans were not going to stand by and take it. It was Neanderthal thinking on the führer’s part: you club me over the head and I will club you. Hitler was almost always outfoxed by the clever machinations of the masonic treachery at the heart of Britain’s ruling class. No matter what Churchill ordered, Hitler should have limited his air campaign to British military sites and munitions factories (the Luftwaffe never bothered to attack the factories that built Britain’s Lancaster bombers).

On September 6 the English people heard the ominous drone of a fleet of Luftwaffe bombers flying up the Thames. Some 3,000 Londoners subsequently died. Now Churchill had what he wanted. You won’t find these facts in the multi-volume history he wrote, or in the pages of the work of the conformist historians. To learn the truth one must read and study the revisionists, particularly the demonized David Irving, the preeminent military historian of World War II in the Atlantic theatre.

ORDER IT NOW

Irving’s nemesis, Deborah Lipstadt meanwhile, has taken it upon herself to deny the holocaust casualty figure of 100,000 for Dresden, but God help any one of us who would have the temerity to doubt the Six Million casualty figure of Holocaustianity, or even to apply the word “holocaust” to what happened in Dresden.

I challenge any reader to collect the legacy media’s descriptions of the bombing of Dresden from the 1990s onward and count how many term it a holocaust. The extent to which we are imprisoned in an Orwellian dystopia of our own making is revealed when we consider the fact that it is regarded as highly insensitive or indeed “anti-Semitic” to violate the self-appointed Newspeak holocaust trademark appropriated by the Holy People, and apply it to the German cities that were incinerated, or to Hiroshima and Nagasaki, even though those war crimes were genuine holocausts by dictionary definition: “Destruction or slaughter on a mass scale, especially caused by fire. Origin: Greek holokauston, from holos ‘whole’ and kaustos ‘burned.”

Even in the liturgy of Holocaustianity it is not decreed that most Judaic victims of the Nazis perished by fire. A half-million German civilians and three-quarters of a million Japanese civilians (including the victims of the fire-bombing of Toyko), were indeed burned to death, yet it is a thought crime to say so. Tell me we are not all cowards for allowing truth itself to be forbidden. We live in Talmudic times.

This writer is sometimes accused, as a researcher in the field of the Babylonian Talmud, of seeing the Talmud where it is not. It is not so much the Talmudic texts themselves that we observe in our society, but the results of their influence. The single most remarkable dimension of Talmudic halacha is its narcissistic exceptionalism, born of the self-worship it inculcates. Prof. Lipstadt, who has made an career out of stigmatizing anyone who doubts any aspect of the “Holocaust” narrative, as a diabolic “Holocaust denier,” is free to deny, without negative consequences, the holocaust in Dresden, because of her exceptional status as one of the Holy People. She may do as she likes with history, in ways that the rest of us may not. For that reason alone we cannot respect the religion of Holocaustianity. It is not history. It is a product of Talmudic megalomania. Few of us tolerate fanatical egoism from Catholics, Protestants or Muslims. The very idea raises our secular indignation and “Separation of Church (or Mosque) and State!” is our cry, in the face of it. But to shout “Separation of Synagogue and State!” in nations where Holocaustianity is the last truly believed state religion in the otherwise agnostic West, would be unthinkable for anyone who valued their reputation, employment, personal safety, or in Europe, freedom from incarceration.

Beyond the “Jew and gentile” entanglement is the fratricide: Churchill and his top military circle were not Judaic, yet they set afire the medieval cities of their German cousins, who only two generations before had comprised the royal blood within the House of the German-speaking Queen Victoria.

A thousand years of national and religious wars in Europe had not managed to wreak the destruction which Mr. Churchill and U.S. President Franklin Roosevelt directed against the cultural treasure houses of western civilization, in cities like Dresden. They tossed a match into Dresden as casually as a drooling meth addict would torch an apartment building for revenge on the landlord who had evicted him.

Yet “conservative Christian” American university professors and administrators in institutions of higher learning such as Michigan’s esteemed Hillsdale College, which is the recipient of millions of dollars in donations from “Conservatives” seeking to preserve western civilization, have hallowed Churchill into a paragon of decency, courage and western leadership. This view of this mass murdering vandal is such a defect of vision as to be fatal spiritually, culturally and politically on a national scale.

If the powers that be decided, for example, that Russia needed to be fire-bombed, given sufficient pretext our “Conservatives” would do it all over again in the name of “civilization.” The blood of the innocent in Moscow and St. Petersburg would signify no more to the Hillsdale College type of crusaders than the charred bodies of the civilians in the apocalyptic wreckage of Dresden.

American civilization in 2018 is not worthy of the name. We have the illusion of a civilization, which we cherish for our own aggrandizement and nostalgia. “Conservative” America has made common cause with the Talmudic mentality, as did Antonin Scalia, another of its plaster saints.

At the start of Lent 2018, seventy-three years after the Allies’ mass murder in Dresden, we inhabit the money changer’s house, where Christ on the Cross is sold not just for a buck, but for a bucket of Talmudic vindication.

Michael Hoffman is a professional historian, the editor of the periodical Revisionist History and the author of nine books.

 
• Category: History • Tags: Dresden, Germany, World War II 
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  1. fnn says:

    “Guernica”

    A reasonable-sounding revisionist account of the Guernica bombing by a respected scholar:

    https://carolynyeager.net/guernica-politics-propaganda

    From an article based on interviews of participants and surviving documents of the Luftwaffe—specifically an unpublished history of the Legion Condor from the year1 940—by Alfred de Zayas 1, published in the Journal of the Bundeswehr in 1974, we learn the following:

    Guernica was on the front line and not an open city. It was heavily defended by six battalions of Basques and Santanders. An armament factory was inside the city and other Red Army facilities were in the immediate vicinity.

    An air attack at the bridge and road crossing east of Guernica was ordered. All Condor orders were strict that cities must be spared, and especially churches. (Knowing this, the “Rojas” (Reds) stored ammunition in churches, blowing them up when they couldn’t get it out). Only in special cases were military targets in cities permitted to be attacked.

    Nine aircraft dropped a total of 7950 kg of bombs, but no hits at the bridge were observed because visibility was very poor. The reason for the poor visibility was fire and smoke from the blasting and setting on fire by the Reds, and possibly the international brigades, ahead of the air attack. The relatively primitive targeting devices used at that time were also responsible for non-military objects being hit.

    Endnotes:
    “Guernica im Lichte neuerer Untersuchungen” (Guernica in Light of Latest Research), by Alfred Maurice de Zayas, Wehrforschung (WF), June 1974. De Zayas is a distinguished author, researcher and expert on international human rights.

    • Replies: @fnn
    , @Alden
    , @Alden
    , @Jake
    , @Wally
  2. fnn says:
    @fnn

    Looking around the net, I found this from Stanley G. Payne’s book, The Spanish Civil War :

    The most notorious, widely publicized military event of the war –the bombing of Guernica, a small Vizcayan town of 5,000 and the site of traditional Basque political ceremonies – occurred late in April 1937 during the first phase of the northern campaign. The ensuing blaze burned most od the city to the ground, and about 150 people were killed.

    TheNationalists had categorized Guernica as a military target because it was scarcely more than ten kilometers from the front, housed three battalions of Basque troops and a munitions factory (producing, inter alia, incen-diary bombs somewhat similar to the kind that destroyed the city), and lay beside a bridge across which part of the Basque forces would have toretreat. Preparation of seven bomb shelters indicated that local authorities also judged that Guernica would likely be a target. One of these shelters was hit directly, considerably increasing the death toll.

    Contrary to assertions, the Guernica operation was not unique in theactions of either side. The Republican navy and air force had subjected cities to indiscrimate bombardment from the first day of the war, and in September 1936, Azana’s newspaper Politica had boasted of the damage done to targets “inundated with iron and fire.”

  3. I left this comment at Hoffman’s site, but of course he’s too cowardly to have published:

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Hoffman Is Clueless One, Regarding Dear Unc’ Adolf, satanism, Central-Banking, Etc.
    (Apollonian, 13 Feb 18)

    Hoffman tells us in his article, here, “Hitler was almost always outfoxed….” But the real question is WHAT does our Pelagian heretic, Hoffman, pretending to being Christian, Christianity being worship of TRUTH (= Christ, Gosp. JOHN 14:6), know about “foxiness”?–or anything?

    For Hoffman certainly knows nothing about economics, or capitalism, or money and banking–which subjects he babbles about, as in his travesty of a book, “Usury in Christendom…,” which “usury” Hoffman gives no definition or exposition for exact original meaning, failing to note “usury” actually has no definitive or specific understanding fm the ancient sources.

    For Germany was essentially attacked by the Jew-led central-banking power (see Mises.org for expo), Britain having made an offensive alliance w. Poland, Poland having threatened war w. Germany over German re-uniting w. German city of Danzig. It was Britain and France who first declared war upon Germany, never forget, beginning the second world war.

    For Germany had lost WWI, never forget, only 21 yrs earlier, Germany then dis-armed for heavy weapons, the armed forces reduced to 100,000, the nation looted by the Allied criminals, the people literally starved by the Brit. blockade into signing the Versailles Treaty and enslavement. For the Western plutocratic satanists led by Jews and “bankers” had to continue to protect, cultivate, and subsidize their latest Bolshevik monster they’d created in Russia, having mass-murdered millions of Christians, Soviet Russia the proto-type and enforcer for world gov. dictatorship they were busily constructing.

    ————————[END OF PART ONE; SEE BELOW FOR PART 2]———————

    • Replies: @anonymous
    , @spencer
  4. ——————————[HERE'S PART 2 TO ABOVE]————————-

    And yes, Hoffman, life is very much war, humans being sinners, and regardless of “Neanderthals,” it’s well-known method of war to threaten retaliation in kind for whatever one may complain of one’s enemies, like bombing of civilians.

    So what’s Hoffman’s real object for this latest article of his?–just more of his usual moralistic virtue-signaling and one-upsmanship, pretending, like the Pelagian hereticalist he is, to knowing all about moralistic “virtue,” lecturing others–like he evidently does for his own, poor, victimized children.

    For it’s Hoffman and hubris-filled Pelagianists like him who are the real problem of our present society consumed in satanism and satanic, extreme subjectivism, pretending to what doesn’t exist, like child’s “good-evil” and a perfectly “free” God-like will. Hitler was actually a great hero bravely fighting this horrific and ever-expanding satanism, and he was magnificent for naming and confronting the Jew.

    But Hitler only failed for the larger cultural issue of satanism in general, founded in subjectivism, hubris, and moralism, for which Jews are the natural leaders, but themselves don’t originate, only taking advantage and manipulating it, due to their natural and thematic superior collectivist cohesion and organization, for their own purposes–as we see in this day, having become masters by specific means of that amazing criminal enterprise of fiat-currency (legalized counterfeiting) and central-banking–which subject-matters Hoffman hasn’t the slightest grasp or understanding.

    • Troll: utu, Che Guava
    • Replies: @isthatright
    , @my2cents
  5. I cannot fathom the obvious vitriol flowing through the pair of comments “appollonian” posted. I have read Michael Hoffman’s work extensively and consider the essay on the tragedy of Dresden and related mass murders of people one of his most heart-felt and powerful. A scientist by training and predilection, I cannot engage competently the several “Pelagian” references and the following nasty attack:

    “So what’s Hoffman’s real object for this latest article of his?–just more of his usual moralistic virtue-signaling and one-upsmanship, pretending, like the Pelagian hereticalist he is, to knowing all about moralistic “virtue,” lecturing others–like he evidently does for his own, poor, victimized children.”

    I do wonder why the moderator — this comment thread is moderated, I presume — allowed the two postings by “appollonian”, apparently his|her first two on this site, and specifically motivated by attacking Mr. Hoffman. I hope others who frequent this site can express similar sensibilities.

    • Replies: @apollonian
    , @t-gordon
  6. @Alan Donelson

    Liar Who Lies Backs-Up Hereticalist, Hypocrite

    What’s this, “alan”?–u “can’t fathom”?–well, we’re not surprised as u’re not too bright are u? And what?–u can’t “engage” Pelagianism?–pretending to child’s “good-evil”?–and u can’t go to Wikipedia or use the search engine?–but who’s fault is that?

    Evidently, u’re soooo brainlessly incompetent as to beggar belief, eh?–and we see u’re just another liar, advocating the same sort of censorship that Hoffman practices at same time he hypocritically complains about it so often as he does in his putrid passive-aggressive, pathetic, and self-pitying manner.

    But those are just my opinions, “alan,” buddy, and I back them up w. substantial pts., info, and facts which u pretend are “vitriolic,” liar as u are, though u’re entitled to ur opinions too, eh? So people can read ur lies and my facts and see how it all reflects on ur hero, Hoffman.

  7. Marcus says:

    Might makes right! Hitler himself said the Germans deserved to be obliterated as punishment for losing

  8. @Marcus

    Marcus: just another Jewwy liar who, naturally, omits to providing any ref. to backing-up his lies, lying. And Germans haven’t “lost,” sucker–the war against satanism continues, didn’t u know?

    • Troll: Ace
    • Replies: @for-the-record
    , @Giuseppe
  9. The first I ever read of the firebombing of Dresden was in the novel by Kurt Vonnegut Jr. (yes, I know, that old lefty) “Slaughterhouse 5″. I was shocked that none of that had been covered in any of the history courses of the 20th century.

    As it turns out, Kurt Vonnegut Jr. was a POW in Dresden and survived the bombing and the resulting firestorm that killed over 100,000 civilians. He included his own witness of the bombing raids in the main character. The novel was made into a movie:

  10. Wally says:
    @Marcus

    No he did not.
    You have no proof or you would produce it.

    • Replies: @Marcus
  11. Three points.

    1. Dresden had no military value. There were no military factories or bases, which is why it had never been bombed and was thus favored by refugees.

    2. The Allies had clearly won at this point and expected final victory in a few weeks.

    3. It doesn’t matter what the Nazis had done because we are supposedly better people.

    For those unfamiliar, the British bombed at night, which was safer, but couldn’t see any targets. The city was the target, which they bombed with firebombs to start fires and burn up everyone.

    This was clearly a war crime, as reluctantly admitted by SecDef Robert McNamara.

    And this continues to this day, as the US military destroyed the Syrian city of Raqqa. Mercenaries that the USA/Israel/Saudi axis of evil paid to invade Syria had gone rogue and were relabeled as “ISIS”. After lots of bombing, ISIS agreed to the the American offer and allowed these terrorists to leave Raqqa peacefully.

    Americans never see this reality on their “news” networks.

    • Replies: @The King is A Fink
  12. Ace says:
    @Marcus

    He might have been a trifle stressed when he said that but probably it was calm, deliberate assessment if you think about it.

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  13. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    If you don’t want to be burned to ashes, don’t fuck with the Jews.

  14. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    Churchill and his top military circle were not Judaic, yet they set afire the medieval cities of their German cousins, who only two generations before had comprised the royal blood within the House of the German-speaking Queen Victoria.

    War brings out the UGLY in every group. But, the Brits didn’t want to kill so many Germans as part of some grand strategy. Instead, the war got really ugly, and it brought out the vengeful and sadistic side of human nature. In other words, had there been no war between UK and Germany, the Brits never would have wanted to kill all those Germans. Once a fight breaks out, a kind of rage takes over. People lose all sense of proportions and want to do maximum damage. This is why boxing has referees. Without them, it can easily lead to murder in the ring.

    Unlike Brits who just lost their heads in the bloody melee, German policy in the East wasn’t a case of violent overreaction. There was a radical plan of genocide and slavery on an unprecedented scale. Not only did the Germans attack first and not only were they willing to do ANYTHING to defeat the USSR, but the planned ‘peace’ would have meant whole extermination of tens of millions of Russians and enslavement of the rest.

    So, while I agree that the Dresden bombing was a war crime and shouldn’t have been committed, I still see it as an evil act among many evil acts in a war that brought out the worst on all sides. It was the fury of war that made the Brits act devilish.
    In contrast, Hitler had a devilish plan even in peacetime prior to the war and would have acted devilishly further had he won in Russia. His ‘peace’ plan for Russia would have been 1000x more frightening that what UK did to Germany and even what Soviets did to Germany, which was abominable.

    It is time for the West to fully acknowledge the great suffering of German people in WWII(and it’s time to stop treating the Shoah as a neo-religion than as a tragic event in history), but too many revisionist types moan and groan about dead Germans but show no such sympathy for all the dead Russians, Poles, and Jews. At every turn, they apologize for Hitler’s actions or minimize the brutality carried out by Germans while making a huge deal about German suffering and victimhood.

    Also, Hoffman’s mention of German as racial ‘cousins’ gives the game away. The hidden logic of revisionists is really this: Anglos and Germans were racial cousins, so they should have allied together and wiped out Russians as the inferior Slavs with tainted blood. Read between the lines in Buchanan’s UNNECESSARY WAR and you get the same sick demented logic.

    In fact, the whole mess could have been avoided if Hitler and Nazis had respected Poles and other Slavs as fellow whites and Europeans. The truly big failure was not Anglos failing to recognize Germans as their cousins but Germans having failed to recognize Slavs as racial cousins too.

    Hitler-apologists will say he invaded Russia to defeat communism when, in fact, his grand plan was not about ideology but about biology. His way was death or enslavement of all Russian Slavs as a bunch of helots.

  15. @Marcus

    Hitler himself said the Germans deserved to be obliterated as punishment for losing.

    I bet he never anticipated that Angela Merkel would be the one carrying out the sentence!

  16. Excellent article.

    I was just in Dresden this past summer for the first time ever. I’m glad I went! Unlike the other major cities of Germany, Dresden has now completely restored its beautiful Baroque downtown–brick by brick, cobblestone by cobblestone. Easily the most beautiful major city in the country.

    Churchill was a contemptible cuck who failed at what he professed to care about most: the preservation of the British Empire. That war ended up reducing the UK to colony status under Washington. Nice going, Winnie the Dupe!

    As Hoffman alludes, the cult of Churchill (and that other scheming warmonger, Franklin Roosevelt), along with the endless praise and veneration of the of the ‘Good War,’ is–together with the magic 6 million figure–yet another article of faith in the new, post-war religion of Holocaustianity. All of these fake war-time national ‘heroes’ need to be exposed for what they really were: traitors and proto-globalists.

    Just one minor cavil with Hoffman:

    American civilization in 2018 is not worthy of the name. We have the illusion of a civilization, which we cherish for our own aggrandizement and nostalgia.

    Our own aggrandizement? C’mon, Michael! You know good and well (((whose))) aggrandizement this “illusion of a civilization” is really run for.

  17. Alden says:
    @fnn

    Guernica was a commie stronghold. Too bad their ideas survived and came to fruition in America

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  18. Alden says:

    Wanna come to a dinner honoring the 25th anniversary of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum 25th anniversary?

    This one is the monstrosity in DC, not one of the numerous others littering the country. The Jews renamed the street it’s on the Raul Wallenberg Place.

    It’s only $500 a ticket although becoming a sponsor or patron is encouraged and essential for Jewish social climbing purposes.

    Barbara Streisand and husband are on the committee along with Blacks, Ziffrens, Sabans, Sherry Lansing and the rest of the billionaires who own the Democrat anti White party

    It’s at the Beverly Hilton March 1. They are charging a lot for the tickets, but they are doing it on the cheap at the dowdy and déclassé Beverly Hilton.

    • Replies: @Carroll Price
  19. Alden says:
    @fnn

    The British had spy/observers in Guernica. They reported that the communists in Guernica set off the explosions. But the Jee media has claimed for 80 years that it was the eeeevil Germans and their reactionary Catholic allies who did the damage.

    His propaganda painting is a big treason Picasso was so highly regarded mid 20th century, he was a communist and the intellectuals adored him because of that.

  20. This was a much-needed reminder of a forgotten and important chapter in WWII. Thank you, Michael Hoffman.

    History, we must recall, is written by the victors. In the most egregious cases, blame is assigned exclusively to the losing side in war; even when political complexities, unintended consequences, and moral ambiguity are major forces at play. This describes WWII as well as the modern view of WWII. Today’s official story boils down to this: The freedom-loving Good Guys fought and defeated the nasty evil Bad Guys. We won!

    Yet Churchill, Stalin and Roosevelt all collaborated and orchestrated numerous war crimes during a preventable conflagration that could have been stopped years before Dresden was incinerated. And had a negotiated settlement been reached (Hitler wanted one) countless inmates who ended up dying of disease and starvation in German concentration camps could have been saved.

    But the glorious ‘Allies’ demanded Unconditional Surrender. Germany refused.

    Knowing what the British and Americans did to Germany following WWI (starvation blockade, exclusive blame and punishment imposed on Germany at the Treatise of Versailles) Hitler chose to fight on.

    Today, the blood-soaked tragedy of WWII has been boiled down to a comic book. Americans are fed a restricted diet of propagandistic, repetitive headlines with two major themes: Psychopathic Nazi Evil vs. Heroic Jewish Virtue. Little else matters. It was the ‘good war’. Never again!

    Yet the wars continue. And Zio-America is starting them.

    As for historic memory, the civilian deaths at Dresen probably exceed those at Hiroshima. But Dresden gets no coverage. Its victims receive little notice or sympathy. Why the difference between Hiroshima and Dresden?

    Jews.

    Imperial Japan did not target Jews. Hitler did.

    Meanwhile, the full dimension of human death, misery and suffering during WWII has been downgraded, censored and abridged. What matters most now is The Holocaust.

    Onward Christian soldiers. On to Damascus! On to Tehran! On To Moscow!

  21. Zumbuddi says:

    Apollonian makes important points — Hoffman goes off the rails when he wanders into Neanderthal territory.
    Or rather, when he wanders into Neanderthal territory and finds there Hitler, guilty of “retaliating” to repeated provocations, but fails to identify as Queen of Neanderthal/primitives the demon Lipstadt. That creature was not attacked with a sharp enough spear.

    Hoffman’s ostensible memorial to Dresden’s victims distracts itself, it puts a spanner in its own gears.

    But the basic sentiment is appreciated: RIP Beautiful Dresden. You are not forgotten.

  22. Zumbuddi says:
    @Marcus

    A vile thing to say, Marcus, doubtless a mindless echo of Allied propaganda. Unless you can provide a solid source & context??

  23. I invite anyone to read
    Victor Klemperer, ‘I will bear witness, A diary of the Nazi years, 1942-1945’, New York 1999
    Klemperer was a jew, living in Dresden, who was treated badly, but never deported, he was married to a ‘full German’ woman.
    The couple survived the bombing, but Klemper’s description of what he saw is more than horrible, people still living, burning, fosfor.
    From a military point of view the bombing was nonsense, the war was in fact over, the old city was bombed, that had no industries at all.
    The estimated number of deaths over time went down all the time, no count was done at the time, there were more urgent things to do.
    I long wondered about the why, from bits of information here and there I now suppose it was to impress Stalin with the military might of the west.
    Interesting is that Klemperer never mentions gas chambers, even more interesting is that he writes that he understands why Hitler persecuted jews, with explanation.

    • Replies: @EugeneGur
  24. athEIst says:
    @Marcus

    deserved to be obliterated

    But he was under a lot of stress

  25. yurivku says:

    It was a funny reading. The story how one Western animals have killed the others.
    For me both deserved to be eliminated. If evil Red Army did it probably now I could have understood it. But it did not, stupid Russian even feed Germans after soldiers came to Berlin.
    Really stupid. Now western bastards blaim them for everything.

    It was Shrove Tuesday, 1945 in the magnificent German art city of Dresden, which was packed with helpless Christian refugees fleeing the Red Army of the Stalinist USSR.

    And nobody cries of them.

    Those innocent people (“helpless Christian refugees”) were mothers, sisters and childs of those innocent killers who came to Russia, killed really innocent people and commit such crimes that normal humal even can’t imagine. Who cries of them except us?
    There are a number of bastards here at UNZ who claim that 26 millions of Russians were killed by Stalin and Jews associated with him, not innocent Germans. And those horrible Russians raped millions of innocent NAZY women.

    After seeing it I just stop regretting of killed German civilians. What about anlosax killers? They did it everywhere – Vietnam, Korea, Yugoslavia, Iraq, Syria … wherever they come in and where nobody can fight back. And they won’t stop themselves.

    When author switched to Jewish question, I’ve stopped reading. I’m not approving Jews with their “holocaust”, but who cares about near 30 millions of Russians?

    Hypocritical bastards.

    • Replies: @ты сука
  26. @apollonian

    Please don’t waste our time with any more of your outrageous comments, the rest of us here seem to be able to appreciate this article for what it was.

  27. The holocaust in Dresden, lasting two days and killing at least 100,000 people

    There obviously has been a concerted effort over recent decades (in Germany as well) to reduce the death toll to more “manageable”levels, for example:

    Dresden bombing death toll lower than thought

    . . . But a special commission, comprising 13 prominent German historians, has now revealed that the previous figures were exaggerated or derived from dubious sources.

    Instead, they concluded that no more than 25,000 people died during the attacks, debunking the claims of many revisionist historians who wished to compare the bombing to the Holocaust.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/onthefrontline/3123512/Dresden-bombing-death-toll-lower-than-thought.html

    Are you aware of any credible counter-studies that support higher figures?

  28. Giuseppe says:
    @apollonian

    Your movement now only generates revulsion, you folks aren’t even interesting any more.

  29. IMHO, the only sure thing about war are the unintended horrific consequences. Those battle
    plans fall apart as soon as the other side fights back.
    The only rule is kill or be killed.

    Non-combatants like the artistic community of Dresden always seem to suffer the worst.

    More recent examples are all the negatives
    resulting from the Bush/Clinton (G. W. Bush and Hillary) acts of whacking various strong men such as Saddam Hussein and Mr. Kadhafy (sp?)

    We can see with hindsight that both killings had no justification. How many civilians dead in Iraq? How many migrants thru Libya to rape European girls? What has followed to fill the power vacuum is no good for anyone.

  30. roof10 says:

    I saw no mention of the firebombing of Coventry by the Germans in 1940. Perhaps an oversight.

    • Replies: @James Kabala
  31. @for-the-record

    I don’t have time right now for a detailed comment, but the “100 000 dead” figure imo isn’t credible, I find the arguments for 25 000 to 30 000 dead persuasive (which to be sure is bad enough, I’d definitely regard the bombings done by the RAF in late 1944/early 1945 as war crimes at least in a moral, if not legal sense). People interested in the subject should look at Richard Overy’s recent “The bombing war”, he gives convincing reasons why casualty figures for WW2 bombing in Europe tend to be inflated more generally (this also applies to German bombing btw, claims that the Luftwaffe killed 500 000 Soviet citizens are exaggerations by a factor of ten or so).

    • Replies: @for-the-record
    , @utu
    , @utu
  32. Greg Bacon says: • Website
    @apollonian

    Looks like somebody got their knickers in a twist when Hoffman dare use the copyright-protected Holocau$t™ to describe GOYIM getting burnt alive in an event which actually happened.

  33. The bottom line is that while Dresden, Hamburg, Tokyo, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and hundreds of other Allied crimes against humanity are all well documented and open to further discussion and questioning, the Jewish holohoax alone remains an undocumented accusation made by less than a dozen eye witnesses, with stiff prison sentences being handed out to Europeans who dare question the alleged event. So please explain to me again how Jews don’t control the Western World.

    • Replies: @nabiru
  34. Jake says:

    “At this juncture we pause to contemplate the bloody treason that was at the heart of Churchill’s soul: he wanted as many of his own English civilians in London to die as possible, so he could point to their deaths as the justification for a total war against Germany, and he succeeded in his objective.”

    Churchill was an evil man, down to the very marrow bone. It began long before WW2.

    Many – almost all of them WASPs or Jews – celebrate him as the greatest leader of the 20th century.

  35. Hilarious spoof but the main point is near the end: “If the powers that be decided, for example [sic!], that Russia needed to be fire-bombed, given sufficient pretext our “Conservatives” would do it all over again in the name of “civilization.” The blood of the innocent in Moscow and St. Petersburg would signify no more to the Hillsdale College type of crusaders than the charred bodies of the civilians in the apocalyptic wreckage of Dresden. For example! Just a random example that came into the author’s head! Amusing aside: Putin was actually stationed in Dresden as a KGB officer.

  36. Jake says:

    “A thousand years of national and religious wars in Europe had not managed to wreak the destruction which Mr. Churchill and U.S. President Franklin Roosevelt directed against the cultural treasure houses of western civilization, in cities like Dresden. They tossed a match into Dresden as casually as a drooling meth addict would torch an apartment building for revenge on the landlord who had evicted him.”

    The first sentence is true, if the subject is restricted to physical destruction of cities. But the religious and cultural destruction was necessary to getting us the French and Bolshevik Revolutions and the 2 World Wars.

    The second sentence is a masterpiece of imagery.

    • Agree: Carroll Price
    • Replies: @Johann
  37. @Anon

    Hitler-apologists will say he invaded Russia to defeat communism when, in fact, his grand plan was not about ideology but about biology.

    When Hitler invaded Poland in 1939, he had already spent the prior 10 years battling, defeating, and preventing Jewish-led Red Revolutionist gangs from doing to Germany what they had already done to neighboring Russia. Contrary to Jewish propaganda encouraging people to assume otherwise, Adolph Hitler’s primary mission in life was defeating Communism where it existed. Small wonder then that a Jewish propaganda mill continues doing everything in its power to convince the world what an evil man he was, when, in reality he was the best friend the Caucasian race and Western Civilization had, and probably ever will have.

    • Agree: jacques sheete
    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  38. @apollonian

    Sorry, OT but where did you go to school? If you did that is.

    I really tried to read your comment but found it to be in some sort of code. I suppose it was meant for some secret agent of some sort so carry on.

  39. Jake says:

    “If the powers that be decided, for example, that Russia needed to be fire-bombed, given sufficient pretext our “Conservatives” would do it all over again in the name of “civilization.” The blood of the innocent in Moscow and St. Petersburg would signify no more to the Hillsdale College type of crusaders than the charred bodies of the civilians in the apocalyptic wreckage of Dresden.”

    Why would the ‘conservative’ Evangelicals have very little, if any, qualms about the US firebombing of civilians in non-English-speaking European countries?

    They are products of WASP culture. Their primary spiritual and cultural Father is Oliver Cromwell. Anglo-Saxon Puritanism was a Judaizing heresy, which means it has always spread ‘Talmudism’ indirectly via its heretical ideas. Oliver Cromwell himself made clear how deeply powerful was the spirit of Judaizing by making alliance with Jews, specifically to take Jewish money to better enable him and his WASPs to wage wars against the majority of Christians native to the British Isles.

    You cannot separate the Jewish/Talmudic problem in the Modern world from the WASP problem.

  40. @Alden

    Thanks for the invite, but after asking a couple of embarrassing questions to which there’s no legitimate answer, they’re throw me out – head-first.

  41. @Anonymous

    If you don’t want to be burned to ashes, don’t fuck with the Jews.

    Doesn’t work that way.

    Those backward, infantile, narcissistic, psychopathic, crackpots have a long record of gratuitous sadism and evidently plenty of them’ll fuck with you and dominate you in unimaginable and ineffable ways for the cheap, transient thrills. There’s a record that their own Gawd couldn’t even stand ‘em from the sound of it.

    The dude’s due to smite the hideous parasites once again, and soon, I hope.

    PS: You dandy fopling Izzy firsters will eventually be tossed under the bus by the worst of ‘em, and I’m stocking up on popcorn and hope I’m around for the show. Schadenfreude can be a muthu too.

    • Replies: @Sherman
  42. n230099 says:

    “In the sky Allied fighter planes caught sight of the civilian train and opened fire on the children inside, whose blood was soon pouring out of the wreckage.”

    Yeah, boo-hoo. Here’s the bottom line. We continue to have wars because we made ‘rules’ for war. Manufactured indignation about war tactics is amusing. If everyone knew that war meant ‘real’ war, the incentive to participate might be dampened. But as it is now, countries and ‘watchdog’ groups are like sissy-boy NFL players that after every play are seen to be looking for the ‘ref’…”did you see where he touched me?” Ignore the rules for once and see what happens…what have we got to lose?

  43. Marcus says:
    @Wally

    A lazy Neo-Nazi would of course be unaware of the Nero Decree, and Hitler’s reasoning for it. Hitler had 100x the honesty of his whiny modern followers, destruction of Germany was consistent with his belief might makes right,

    It is better to destroy these things ourselves … the people have proven themselves the weaker, and the future belongs to the stronger population in the east.

    • Replies: @Wally
  44. No doubt horrid beyond words, war being the ultimate expression of human insanity, however the other aspect of this historic pandemonia being :

    ” Wollt Ihr den totalen Krieg” . “JA” !!!

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” qualified since 1973, airborne trained US Army Vet, and pro jaz musician.

    • Replies: @Byrresheim
  45. Jake says:
    @fnn

    Even the so-called conservatives now manage not to know that the Spanish Republicans/Reds slaughtered a large number of priests and monks, raped many nuns, blew up multiple churches, all that on top of – perhaps a type of dessert for – the meat and potatoes work of bludgeoning backward civilians who refused to bow to the progress of atheist revolution.

    By the way – when the British Empire managed to strike trade deals with the Spanish Empire, it planted Masonic lodges not merely in New Spain but in Spain as well. As in Mexico, the British founded Masonic lodges were indispensable to all subsequent revolts in the country.

    • Replies: @Anon
  46. Johann says:
    @Jake

    The Americans did their part of religious/cultural devastation when they bombed the fifteen hundred year old monastery of Saint Benedict at Monte Cassino. The Americans justified their act of barbarism and incineration by claiming that the monastery was being used by German artillery spotters; they never provided any proof that this was true.

    • Replies: @Jake
  47. @apollonian

    You have a serious problem with spelling and usage. The proper terms are “Pelagian,” and “Heretic.” Both are irrelevant to the article and leads me to wonder if you even understand the terms in the first place.

  48. @German_reader

    I don’t have time right now for a detailed comment, but the “100 000 dead” figure imo isn’t credible, I find the arguments for 25 000 to 30 000 dead persuasive (which to be sure is bad enough,

    You obviously are in a much better position than I am to evaluate the conflicting evidence. What I find interesting, and not often referred to (as far as I am aware), are the population statistics. The ones cited by Wikipedia (which seem to be from official sources), show the following:

    31. Dezember 1938 – 634.400
    17. Mai 1939 – 629.713
    31. Dezember 1940 – 626.900
    31. Dezember 1944 – 566.738
    30. April 1945 – 368.519
    31. Mai 1945 – 397.676
    1. Dezember 1945 – 454.249
    29. Oktober 1946 – 467.966
    31. August 1950 – 494.187

    Source: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einwohnerentwicklung_von_Dresden#cite_note-2

    Obviously many people must have left the city because their homes had been destroyed, but it does suggest the scale of the damage.

    • Replies: @utu
  49. @roof10

    Some also might be under the impression that Warsaw (which the Germans destroyed) and Paris (which Hitler wanted to destroy) were among the “cultural treasure houses of western civilization,” but I guess only German cities count.

    • Replies: @Wally
  50. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    I don’t know we can say –after all these years of propaganda– who really wanted to exterminate or had worse plans for whom. We can only judge the things that did happen. Also, it is a mistake to confuse ‘government’ with ‘people’. Not all regions of Germany voted for Hitler, for example. And leaders like Churchill should be held to a higher standard than John Bull. If the Soviet Army had directives to rape, that’s different than battle rage. Same with German summary execution of Jews on the Eastern front. And so on. But in this you are spot on:

    ” It is time for the West to fully acknowledge the great suffering of German people in WWII(and it’s time to stop treating the Shoah as a neo-religion than as a tragic event in history), but too many revisionist types moan and groan about dead Germans but show no such sympathy for all the dead Russians, Poles, and Jews. At every turn, they apologize for Hitler’s actions or minimize the brutality carried out by Germans while making a huge deal about German suffering and victimhood.”

    The tendency to only see evil outside ourselves leads to disaster. Even for convincing others, a balanced view that acknowledges our side’s mistakes is more effective.

    • Replies: @Wally
  51. @Marcus

    Cool. The same applies to “native” Indians in the Americas, right?

    • Replies: @Marcus
  52. @apollonian

    Attacking a man through his family as Applolian tried to do to Hoffman is reptilian.

  53. @for-the-record

    I don’t know of any recent studies, but the 100k deaths are reasonable given what was happening at the time. Dresden had become something of a choke point for refugees and military who were withdrawing in the face of the Soviet advance. The authorities at the time are the source of the casualty figure and civic authorities in Germany were not given to inflating such things.

    The Dresden missions resulted in by far the largest firestorm of the war. The earlier firestorm in Hamburg was accidental. Bomber Command and 8th Air Force figured out how to create the storms with intent. Under the circumstances, 100k+ deaths is quite reasonable.

  54. @Anonymous

    Jews continue to marry nonJews at a high rate in the USA, which has the most Jews after Israel itself.

    As for Europe, like Christians and secularists, Jews will flee as Muslims take over.

    As for Israel itself, Arab Muslims and ultraOrthodox Jews continue to have higher fertility rates than other Jews. NonOrthdox Jews may find themselves a smaller and smaller minority, and Jews themselves eventually may be a minority in that country. The process will be stopped for a while, and slowed thereafter, if many Jews from Europe seek refuge in Israel, but the process will resume again,

    Jews managed to destroy other peoples — and encourage other peoples to pervert, debase, and destroy themselves and each other — but they haven’t managed to save themselves either in the longer term.

  55. The author is right on one thing at least: Dresden was a war crime.
    As were all the other terror bombings carried out in WWII. No one, none of any of the major participants did not, at any time, not resort to committing war crimes on an industrial level.
    War crimes committed on the highest military authority.
    There is plenty blame to go around, the victors were blameless, as are all victors.

    Yet another reason for rejecting war as an option. As a citizen of Europe, I hope we grow up soon.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  56. escobar says:

    “Warum genuegen 25,000 Tote von Dresden nicht?” in Die Welt. February 7, 2015

    Read it…and other work by German historians, before accepting the 100,000 fantasy. As the article suggests, aren’t 25,000 dead enough?

  57. utu says:
    @German_reader

    the “100 000 dead” figure imo isn’t credible

    Because it was more than 100,000. German cuckhood of which German_reader is an exemplar reached zenith after the reunification. They agreed to link Dresden to British Coventry narrative and drastically lowered the number of dead. During good old times of DDR one could walk around Dresden and curse British and Americans openly. The bombing raids were officially called terrorist. And now in the unified crucified Germany we learn it was justified because of Coventry. How many people died in Coventry?

  58. fnn says:
    @Anon

    Hitler-apologists will say he invaded Russia to defeat communism when, in fact, his grand plan was not about ideology but about biology.

    Hitler invaded USSR because Britain refused peace terms and it was clear that FDR was gearing up to enter the war. Germany needed the resources of the Soviets to have any chance to defeat the American economic collosus in combination with the British Empire. Respected Establishment historians Adam Tooze and John Lukacs both say the invasion was entirely rational and necessary. But Hitker bungled it by not taking Moscow.

    In fact, the whole mess could have been avoided if Hitler and Nazis had respected Poles and other Slavs as fellow whites and Europeans.

    The Slovaks were NS Germany’s first allies. The Czechs under the occupation were given the same benefits as German workers- with the bonus of not being subject to conscription. The lack of discontent prompted the British to send in a Czech emigre team to assassinate Heydrich in order to stir things up. Hitler of course took the bait.

    Hitler also got along well with the Poles when Pilsudski was in charge. Here’s Wikipedia on Pilsudski:

    After Adolf Hitler came to power in Germany in January 1933, Piłsudski is rumored to have proposed to France a preventive war against Germany. It has been argued that Piłsudski may have been sounding out France regarding possible joint military action against Germany.Lack of French interest may have been a reason for Poland signing the Non-Aggression Pact of January 1934. Little evidence has, however, been found in French or Polish diplomatic archives that such a proposal for preventive war was ever actually advanced.Hitler repeatedly suggested a German-Polish alliance against the Soviet Union, but Piłsudski declined, instead seeking precious time to prepare for potential war with either Germany or the Soviet Union. Just before his death, Piłsudski told Józef Beck that it must be Poland’s policy to maintain neutral relations with Germany, keep up the Polish alliance with France and improve relations with the United Kingdom.

    But there is a rather complicated history between Germans and Slavs:

    https://www.counter-currents.com/2016/05/hitlers-empire-1/

    With the Treaty of Versailles in 1919, millions of ethnic Germans became vulnerable minorities in other countries. Hundreds of thousands were either forcibly expelled to Germany or their situation was so desperate they emigrated to the Reich. Almost 10 percent of the ethnic German population of Czechoslovakia emigrated to Germany before 1938.

    I can attest that, to this day, French young people are not taught in school about the ethnic cleansing their forefathers committed against defeated Germany:

    In the wake of the First World War, the French had purged the provinces of Alsace and Lorraine, classified their population according to “blood origins” and driven out more than 90,000 people in barely a year: the German population of the Moselle department dropped from 164,502 in 1910 to under 45,000 in 1921. (199)

    A total of some 200,000 ethnic Germans were expelled from reannexed Alsace-Lorraine.

    The situation was similarly bad in Poland:

    In Poland itself, the Germans were seen as second-class citizens and traitors [. . .] “Polish land for the Poles” was a common watchword, and [Prime Minister Władysław] Sikorski spoke in 1923 of ‘de-Germanizing’ the western provinces. (36-37).

    Some 575,000 Germans would leave their ancestral lands in Poland to rejoin Germany between 1918 and 1926 alone, including half of the ethnic German populations of ceded Poznania and West Prussia. Mazower stresses that German expulsion and persecution of Poles was in some respects meant as both retaliation for and reversal of Polish policies:

    Everyone knew how, after 1918, their [ethnic Germans’] land had been confiscated or surrounded with subsidized clusters of new settlements. Hostile officials had discouraged them from speaking German or declaring themselves as Germans in censuses and even the landscape itself had been de-Germanized through changes to the names of families, streets and entire towns. In many areas Germans had been deliberately expelled; in others they had sold up and left, or bowed to the pressure to change their nationality. The Nazi regime saw reversing the effect of these decades as a priority. “Make this land German for me again!” Hitler had ordered an official after the conquest of northern Yugoslavia in 1941. His message to those he appointed to the Reich’s other borderlands was basically the same.

    On “anti-Slavism” as ideology:

    https://www.counter-currents.com/2016/05/hitlers-empire-1/

    Allied propaganda and conventional narratives emphasize that the Third Reich’s racial ideology saw Slavs as “subhumans,” a term in fact more often used in a dysgenic rather than ethnic sense. Mazower makes clear however the paradoxical fact that German racial science at the time was actually a moderating influence on Slavophobia, because Slavs were considered a linguistic rather than a racial group:

    Prewar Germany funded racial science well – as it did the sciences in general – and the Third Reich was a particularly generous sponsor. [. . .] The discipline of racial science itself was in turmoil, and many German scholars had already become aware of the difficulties. [. . .] [K]nowing how to distinguish a German from a non-German – the key concern for those running the new empire – was not something upon which it was possible to get expert consensus. (182)

    Hitler apparently agreed:

    Hitler himself thought Himmler’s race mysticism was impractical and, while hostile to Serbs and Russians in general, he felt differently about other groups of Slavs. He praised the Czechs as “industrious and intelligent workers” and speculated that blue-eyed Ukrainians might be “peasant descendants of German tribes who never migrated.” In fact, he came round to the view – common among German anthropologists – that there was, racial speaking, no such category as “Slavs”; it was a linguistic term, nothing more.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Wally
  59. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Jake

    Ah! Finally. A commenter who noticed the “Hitler was almost always outfoxed by the clever machinations of the masonic treachery at the heart of Britain’s ruling class..”

    Why do you think that Unz is such a dark hole for talking about that historic political party, Freemasonry? Jew bashing allowed, but not any analysis of such an elite way of networking. No mention on RoundTable-Fabianism-CFR-Bildeberg. It is current and global, but not mentioned in polite company.

    By the way, Masonic lodges all the way to South America, with Bolivar and San Martin being Freemasons. From Wiki:
    “San Martín resigned from the Spanish army, for controversial reasons, and moved to South America, where he joined the Spanish American wars of independence. Historians propose several explanations for this action: the common ones are that he missed his native country, that he was a British agent and the congruence of the goals of both wars. The first explanation suggests that when the wars of independence began San Martín thought that his duty was to return to his country and serve in the military conflict. The second explanation suggests that Britain, which would benefit from the independence of the South American countries, sent San Martín to achieve it. The third suggests that both wars were caused by the conflicts between Enlightenment ideas and absolutism, so San Martín still waged the same war; the wars in the Americas only developed separatist goals after the Spanish Absolutist Restoration.[10]

    San Martín was initiated in the Lodge of Rational Knights in 1811. They met at the house of Carlos María de Alvear, other members were José Miguel Carrera, Aldao, Blanco Encalada and other criollos, American-born Spaniards. They agreed to return to their home countries and join the local revolutionary movements. San Martín asked for his retirement from the military, and moved to Britain. He stayed in the country for a short time, and met many other South Americans at a lodge held at the house of Venezuelan general Francisco de Miranda at 27 Grafton Street (now 58 Grafton Way),[11] Bloomsbury, London (the house now has a blue plaque with Miranda’s name).”

    A young, unknown San Martin also traveled to the U.S. and somehow got around to meeting with George Washington. Such a lucky break. And he later obediently accepted Bolivar’s dismissal, and went into freemasonic exile.

    But hey, that happened long ago.

    • Replies: @Jake
  60. utu says:
    @for-the-record

    In 1945 Dresden was full of refugees from the East so it was believed that its population during the bombings was much higher and thus the difference between permanent population numbers will underestimate the number of dead.

    Nazis throughout the whole war were underestimating the numbers of dead due to bombings. Germans were not told how bad things were for morale and propaganda reasons. But internally they kept the numbers that were not to be used officially.

  61. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    All the Generals that surround Trump and run the Presidency for him were staunch advocates of the Iraq war and all the other U.S. interventions in the last two decades. Foreign quagmires are what the US does best.

    So Trump listens to Kelly and the other neocon old generals and sent more troops to Afghanistan. Dresden was just the warm up. Americans are still being lied to about Vietnam after they forgot about Fallujah.

    • Agree: Che Guava
  62. Che Guava says:

    Good article, Mr. Hoffman, and most of the attempted refutations very weak.

    The deceased great American author Kurt Vonnegut was in Dresden at the time, as a well-treated P.O.W., his account of Dresden firebombing in parts of his novel Slaughterhouse 5, and aftermath for him and others, he was stating were true experiences.

    I would expect that the topics of Mother Night were dictated to him by his publishers as a kind of forced self-abnegation.

    Not that it is a bad novel, just far more fictional than the wartime scenes in Slaughterhouse 5, and the probability that he was forced to write it as a mea culpa for the former by his publishers (New York Jews) is very high.

    I even like the movie of Mother Night a little, mainly because it is featuring Laura Palmer and Spiderman’s girlfriend in Spiderman’s previous incarntion, otherwise, occasional good camera shots. In general, crap.

  63. Wally says:
    @fnn

    BTW:
    The famous Picasso painting, Guernica, was actually started BEFORE the event.

    http://www.codoh.com

  64. @utu

    How many people died in Coventry?

    568 is the official figure, I believe.

  65. Jake says:
    @Anon

    “Why do you think that Unz is such a dark hole for talking about that historic political party, Freemasonry?”

    I think that is so because such discussion always means we must talk about WASP culture as not only not conservative in any sense worth having, but that has a very long history, an indispensable history, in promoting leftist revolutions across the globe./

    The WASP Elites have been amoral, power and money-worshipping monsters of anti-Christendom revolution since before Oliver Cromwell officially allied them with Jews.

    • Replies: @Anon
  66. Wally says:
    @Marcus

    “Neo-Nazi” …. yawn.

    The typical childish response from a dumb Zionist.

    There were the ‘Nazis’ with the mythological ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ and there were the ‘Nazis’ without the mythological ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’.

    Again, where’s your proof for you assertion?

    You just typed some text and put a blockquote around, as if it were actually Hitler.

    See the impossible ‘holocaust’ storyline debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Marcus
  67. As at WACO …..a BURNT OFFERING for the Jewish serpents

  68. Wally says:
    @James Kabala

    Warsaw was “destroyed”? Not.

    Parts of it were attacked, being a legit military target.
    The Jew ghetto was damaged due to the German suppression of rioting, which was legal under international law.

    Paris? ” which Hitler wanted to destroy” Proof?

    I’m sure you’ll say next: ‘Hitler wanted to destroy Mexico City’ too.

    You have been indoctrinated, laughably so.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @EugeneGur
    , @James Kabala
  69. @utu

    During good old times of DDR one could walk around Dresden and curse British and Americans openly.

    Sure, but you couldn’t speak openly about the issue of rapes by Red Army soldiers in 44/45 and plenty of other issues…the bombing of Dresden was just useful for bashing Western “imperialists”, “warmongers” etc. Just Cold war politics.
    And I didn’t even mention Coventry…it’s true that the escalation in the bombing war was mostly due to deliberate decisions taken by the British, and the bombing of Coventry (aimed at its armaments industry) wasn’t comparable to their intentional destruction of entire city centres in Germany. If you read the book by Overy I mentioned in my earlier post, you’d actually see that argument made by mainstream historians. That’s unconnected to the issue of how many died in Dresden.

  70. Marcus says:
    @RadicalCenter

    Yes, of course. They lost to a superior civilization.

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
    , @Kolo
  71. Wally says:
    @Anon

    said in trying to appease the violent Zionists:
    “but too many revisionist types moan and groan about dead Germans but show no such sympathy for all the dead Russians, Poles, and Jews. At every turn, they apologize for Hitler’s actions or minimize the brutality carried out by Germans while making a huge deal about German suffering and victimhood.” ”

    Strawmen galore. Revisionist do nothing of the sort.
    Please present your proof for your “brutality carried out by Germans”.
    As for “Hitler’s actions”, please tell us what those were, present proof.

    The fact of the matter is that the ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossble.
    You nor anyone else can change that fact. Real history requires real proof, which you do not have. Simple as that. Cheers.
    See the impossible ‘holocaust’ storyline debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com
    Only liars demand censorship.

    Holocaust Handbooks, Documentaries, & Videos

    http://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?main_page=1

    Chemistry of Auschwitz / Birkenau

    • Replies: @Anon
  72. Marcus says:
    @Wally

    Lmao once again, the Nazis themselves, who never bothered denying what they did, had infinitely more integrity than their brain dead modern wannabes. As for the Nero Decree, you can find it in any number of works on the war’s last few months, e.g. Toland’s “The Last 100 Days,” but I’m sure you’ll keep covering your ears anyway

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Wally
  73. t-gordon says:
    @Alan Donelson

    Sadly, I believe that there’s more than a grain of truth behind both the author’s and apollonian’s ‘revisions’ to the mainstream narrative. Being the Pelagianist (I had to look that one up) that I am, I still believe in the reality Jesus Christ and his teachings, but… Regardless, according to “apollonian”, I’m hellbound for daring to question Man’s total depravity. In his book I might as well be a soulless communist/relativist/Satanist. In my book, I am far from any of those three. Aww Shucks. Someday, we’ll all find out. Hubris?

  74. At this juncture we pause to contemplate the bloody treason that was at the heart of Churchill’s soul: he wanted as many of his own English civilians in London to die as possible, so he could point to their deaths as the justification for a total war against Germany, and he succeeded in his objective.

    One can hardly call this treason.

    Prior to shifting the air war to the Blitz, Fighter Command was on the verge of being broken.

    And the destruction of housing stock is much less damaging to the war effort than the destruction of vital industries.

    So at a stroke, Churchill prevented the Luftwaffe from gaining air superiority over England and shifted their attacks to non-strategic targets.

    And if what you say is true about the British peace movement, Churchill removed political opposition detrimental to the war effort. It must be remembered that the British government possessed less power than the German government and was both more dependent on public opinion and had less ability to mold it.

    That’s not to justify the destruction of Dresden of course, but as it was said of the Germans of the time–sew the wind, reap the whirlwind.

    Britain probably would’ve been better off not pursuing the bombing campaign at all. Something like one-third of Britain’s industrial effort was in support of the bombing campaign, which did not begin to have decisive effects until the second half of 1944. Of course no one could have known this in 1940.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
    , @utu
  75. Marcus says:
    @Jon Halpenny

    Yes, Hitler was consistent in his beliefs, unlike today’s Neo-Nazi losers who talk about might making right and then whine about muh Dresden or 6 gorillion red army rapes

    • Replies: @Wally
  76. Wally says:
    @utu

    Excellent, fact based discussion here, propaganda shattered:

    Who started bombing civilians first:Germany or Great Britain?

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=8172

    http://www.codoh.com

  77. Wally says:
    @fnn

    The facts discussed here, propaganda shattered:

    Operation Barbarossa Was A Preventive Attack

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7999

    http://www.codoh.com

  78. Ivan K. says: • Website

    The holocaust in Dresden, lasting two days and killing at least 100,000 people

    Even a dedicated, loyal fan of David Irving would have been bewildered by this claim. If the exact number is inessential, why just one highly eccentric estimate. If it is important, why leave it without a single reference or an explanation. If you know better than your readership, enlighten it, Mr. Hoffman.

    And I, too, am tired of this memorialising selectivity. In the Western mainstream media, it’s the Jews Jews Jews. Among revisionist Westerners, the highlight is reserved for the Germans and only the Germans. Well, if you’re so close-minded to exclude even Christians of Western outlook that were of other nationalities, let alone Asian, you’ll end up on a receiving end of a same kind of close-mindedness. After all, during the war the churches were open and active throughout the Slavic world.

    And before I end, here are comments of an eyewitness and participant in the bombing of Dresden, preceded and followed by remarks from David Irving.

    David Irving, April 2009:
    “Eventually I went to and spoke to master bomber airman “Bomber” Harris.
    A great man, great commander. I know many people don’t like him. I know
    many call him a war criminal. … Bomber Harris’s told me he didn’t want
    to carry the bomb air raids either. But he had been ordered to do it. It
    was a political decision by Churchill, and himself.
    I mean, I interviewed him back in April 1962, and the book I finally
    published became a bestseller. …”
    (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97L_SJrPl6g) (11:12)

    I forwarded the above quote in my message to Freeman Dyson, who worked in the Operational Research Section (ORS) of the Royal Air Force’s Bomber Command since 1943. He responded:

    Date: June 05, 2016 5:32 PM
    Dear Ivan K.

    I am not a historian and do not claim to know all the facts. What I know comes from the official history of the RAF bombing campaign by Noble and Frankland.

    The basic strategy of Britain for fighting WW2 was fixed by the government in 1936, when the decision was made to build a big force of strategic bombers as the primary instrument for defeating Germany. Once that decision was made, everything else followed, all the way until Dresden. Neither Churchill nor Harris was responsible for the decision.
    Both of them were executing the strategy that was already decided. The person chiefly responsible for the decision was Hugh Trenchard, who was retired but still highly influential in 1936.

    The statement of Harris to David Irving was made 17 years after the war. Like many such statements by military people and politicians, it is strongly influenced by hindsight. Harris is remembering things as he wished they had been rather than as they were. His behavior during the war makes it clear that he was executing the bombing strategy with much more enthusiasm than the situation demanded. And the same can be said of Churchill.

    Yours sincerely, Freeman Dyson.

    I then forwarded Dyson’s response to David Irving, and he responded:

    Wednesday, June 22, 2016 12:45 PM
    From: info fpp.co.uk

    That was an interesting exchange. Thank yifor sharing i with me.

    David Irving
    Inverness, Scotland (UK)

    • Replies: @utu
  79. EugeneGur says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Interesting is that Klemperer never mentions gas chambers, even more interesting is that he writes that he understands why Hitler persecuted jews, with explanation.

    It is interesting for a psychiatrist, perhaps. Good Germans also never saw concentrations camps or gas chambers even when they could see them from their windows. You, for example, is hard at work denying facts documented in literally tons of documents, photos, films, witness accounts, because you can find some Victor or other who, interestingly, never saw anything. if you knew anything about proof, you’d know that the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Just because somebody saw nothing doesn’t mean there was nothing to see.

    BTW you should make up your mind, and so does that Victor character – either there was no prosecution (he was married to a German woman, after all and lived happily ever after, how nice!) or prosecution was justified. He understands why Hitler prosecuted Jews, doesn’t he, and, apparently, so do you.

    But if it is OK to prosecute all Jews (including newborns, I presume) for whatever crime they supposedly committed it’s equally justifiable to punish all Germans for very real crimes, so they should’t complain about Dresden.

  80. utu says:
    @German_reader

    Kurt Vonnegut’s Slaughterhouse-Five (1969) is one of the best anti-war novels. The film adaptation (1972) was surprisingly good.

    Vonnegut probably used 1963 David Irving’s The Destruction of Dresden thought most is based on his experiences as a POW in Dresden.

    Surprisingly one of the first post war sympathetic to Germans portrayal of Dresden bombing comes from Polish 1961 feature movie “Tonight a City Will Die”

  81. Wally says:
    @fnn

    much more here, see:
    Polish Atrocities against Germans before 1. September 1939

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7525

    “Poland wants war with Germany and Germany will not be able to avoid it even if she wants to.”
    - Polish Marshal Rydz-Smigly as reported in the Daily Mail, August 6th, 1939)

    .”under Polish pressure the Germans in the southern and eastern districts were subjected to oppressive treatment. On Aug. 19 1920 the Poles felt strong enough, indeed, to make an attempt to seize the country by force. On all sides bands of Poles, chiefly recruited from Congress Poland, usurped authority. A number of Germans were forcibly carried across the frontier into Poland, and many were killed. Several weeks elapsed before it was possible to quell this rising and restore order…It had been suggested by the Entente that non-resident Upper Silesians of the German Reich should vote outside Silesia, at Cologne. Germany protested against this, and her protest was recognized as valid by the Entente. In January 1921 the date of the plebiscite was fixed for March 20 1921.
    An immediate revival took place in the use of terrorism by the Poles, especially in the districts of Rybnik, Pless, Kattowitz, and Beuthen. It reached its climax in the days preceding the plebiscite. Voters from other parts of the German Reich were frequently refused admission to the polls; sometimes they were maltreated and even in some instances murdered; and houses where outvoters were staying were set on fire… The day after the plebiscite the Polish excesses recommenced, and from that date onwards continued without interruption… Practically all the towns voted for Germany… the first days of May witnessed a new Polish insurrection which assumed far greater proportions than the former one. Korfanty had secretly raised a well-organized Polish force which was provided with arms and munition from across the border, and was reinforced by large bodies of men from Poland…
    By June 20 the British troops had again occupied the larger towns, while the Poles had the upper hand in the rural districts. As a result of the difficulties in paying his men and providing them with food Korfanty now lost control over his followers. Independent bands were formed which plundered the villages, ill-treated the Germans, and murdered many of them.”

    - 1922 Encyclopaedia Britannica, “SILESIA, UPPER”

    This article appeared in the Polish newspaper Die Liga der Grossmacht in October, 1930:

    A struggle between Poland and Germany is inevitable. We must prepare ourselves for it systematically. Our goal is a new Battle of Tannenberg. However, this time, a Tannenberg in the suburbs of Berlin. Prussia must be reconquered for Poland, and Prussia, indeed, as far as the River Spree. In a war with Germany there will be no prisoners…

    “Tannenberg” refers to the Battle of Tannenberg in 1410 when a Polish army defeated the German Teutonic Knights. The article is full of many more anti-German remarks.

    Also, Von Ribbentrop defended the attack of Poland by stating that between 1919-1939, one million Germans had been expelled from Polish territory accompanied by numerous atrocities, and that complaints to the World Court in The Hague and the League of Nations in Geneva had been ignored.

    further reading:
    the book: “Dokumente polnischer Grausamkeiten. Verbrechen an Deutschen 1919-1939 nach amtlichen Quellen” (Documentations of Polish Cruelties. Crimes Against Germans 1919-1939 According to Official Sources).

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  82. EugeneGur says:
    @Wally

    The Jew ghetto was damaged due to the German suppression of rioting, which was legal under international law.

    Could you enlightened us as to which “international law” even at those damned times authorized ghettos?

    Paris? ” which Hitler wanted to destroy” Proof?

    I don’t know what Hitler wanted and I could’t care less. I know what he did – he destroyed Kiev, Kerch, Sevastopol, Stalingrad, to name just a few. He blew out magnificent suburbs of St. Petersburg: Peterhof, Pavlovsk, Tzarskoye Selo, Gatchina – everything he could lay his dirty hands on. He destroyed pre-Mongol 11-12 century churches in Great Novgorod, and this is just a small part.

    I know you people are ignorant, and it sounds particularly ridiculous when you accuse someone else of being indoctrinated. Try reading something else besides that silly website you refer to all the time.

  83. Wally says: • Website
    @Marcus

    said:
    “the Nazis themselves, who never bothered denying what they did”

    As usual, you are utterly wrong, childishly so. What’s alleged is scientifically impossible.
    Indeed torture will get some of the desired results, see below, however, here is a massive list of ‘Nazis who most definitely rejected the impossible propaganda:

    quora.com / Tim O’Neill: Nazis never denied ‘holocaust’ / WRONG

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8165

    and:

    [MORE]

    All but two of the Germans [on trial at Nuremberg], in the 139 cases that we investigated, had their testicles kicked in beyond repair. This was standard operating procedure with our American investigators:” 23.1.49, The Sunday Pictorial (quoted in For Those Who Cannot Speak (ref. 27), p.21.The statements which were admitted as evidence were obtained from men who had first been kept in solitary confinement for three, four and five months..The investigators would put a black hood over the accused’s head, punch him in the face with brass knuckles, kick him and beat him with rubber hoses. Observer & American judge, van Roden

    - Judge van Roden’s allegation of torture to gain “confessions” is confirmed by Texas Supreme Court Judge, Gordon Simpson. He confirmed that savage beatings, smashing of testicles, and months of solitary confinement occurred. Congressional Record, appendix v. 95, sec.12, 3/10/49

    - U.S. Congressional Representative, Lawrence H. Smith of Wisconsin said:
    ” The Nuremberg Trials are so repugnant to the Anglo-Saxon principles of justice that we must forever be ashamed of that page in our history.”
    Congressional Record, appendix, v.95, sec.14, 6/15/49

    - “The prisoner was torn from the top bunk, the pyjamas ripped from his body. He was then dragged naked to one of the slaughter tables, where it seemed to [Bernard] Clarke the blows and screams were endless. Eventually, the Medical Officer urged the Captain: ‘Call them off, unless you want to take back a corpse.’”(12)
    12.R. Butler, Legions of Death, Hamlyn, (London, 1983), p.237

    - The admission of Bernard Clarke was corroborated by Mr. Ken Jones in ‘The Wrexham Leader’, October 17, 1986.
    Mr. Jones was then a private with the Fifth Royal Horse Artillery stationed at Heid in Schleswig-Holstein.
    “They brought him to us when he refused to cooperate over questioning about his activites during the war. He came in the winter of 1945/6 and was put in a small jail cell in the barracks,” recalls Mr. Jones. Two other soldiers were detailed with Mr. Jones to join Hoess in his cell to help break him down for interrogation.”
    “We sat in the cell with him, night and day, armed with axe handles. Our job was to prod him every time he fell asleep to help break down his resistance,” said Mr. Jones.
    When Hoess was taken out for exercise, he was made to wear only jeans and a thin cotton shirt in the bitter cold. After three days and nights without sleep, Hoess finally broke down and made a full confession to the authorities.

    - “The London Cage was used partly as a torture centre, inside which large numbers of German officers and soldiers were subjected to systematic ill-treatment. In total 3,573 men passed through the Cage, and more than 1,000 were persuaded to give statements about war crimes. The brutality did not end with the war, moreover: a number of German civilians joined the servicemen who were interrogated there up to 1948.
    As the work of the Cage was wound down, the interrogation of prisoners was switched to a number of internment camps in Germany. And there is evidence that the treatment meted out in these places was, if anything, far worse. While many of the papers relating to these interrogation centres remain sealed at the Foreign Office, it is clear that one camp in the British zone became particularly notorious. At least two German prisoners starved to death there, according to a court of inquiry, while others were shot for minor offences.

  84. Wally says:
    @Marcus

    Your main, infantile, Zionist problem is this:

    We’re talking about an alleged ’6M Jews & 5M others’ … 11,000,000.
    There is not a single verifiable excavated enormous mass grave with contents actually SHOWN, not just claimed, (recall the claim of 900,000 buried at Treblinka, 1,250,000 at Auschwitz, or 250,000 at Sobibor, 34,000 at Babi Yar) even though Jews claim they still exist and claim to know exactly where these alleged enormous mass graves are.

    The ‘holocaust’ storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that denies free speech and the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

    Only liars demand censorship.

    The ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    see the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here:

    http://codoh.com

    No name calling, level playing field debate here:

    http://forum.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Marcus
  85. I lived in Germany as a military dependent.

    The tragic consequences of total war strategy was visited on Dresden. But such policy is non-unique in annals of war. Nor was total war the domain of the allies.

    I get the argument here and would not deny the tragedy of total war campaigns. But that is not the same thing as genocide in targeting a unique population. Dresden was an attack that made no respecter of personal or group identity identity.

    If it had been the French who launched crusades as the Germans, then some French industrial city would have been targeted.

    • Replies: @utu
  86. Wally says:
    @Jon Halpenny

    Laughable BS.

    As British M15 agent? Seriously?

    The Zionist ‘Telegraph’. This is pure unproven fiction.

    Where is the actual German document showing this?
    Oops!
    It doesn’t exist.
    Some agenda driven M15 agent merely making things up is high school hilarity.

    This is too easy.
    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @anonymous
  87. @Anon

    The hidden logic of revisionists is really this: Anglos and Germans were racial cousins, so they should have allied together and wiped out Russians as the inferior Slavs with tainted blood. Read between the lines in Buchanan’s UNNECESSARY WAR and you get the same sick demented logic.

    Germany’s main enemy was (and remains) a master of blaming others for their own crimes and shortcomings. The Nazis were up against some of the world’s premier racists, i.e., Zionists who are themselves a particularly nasty offshoot of another vicious, hate-filled racist cult.

    Here’s an example of what I’m referring to.:

    “”Goyim were born only to serve us. Without that, they have no place in the world – only to serve the People of Israel.”
    Why are gentiles needed? They will work, they will plow, they will reap. We will sit like an effendi and eat.”According to Yosef, death has “no dominion” over non-Jews in Israel.

    “Hate the Gentile!” Israel’s Racist Rabbis, by JONATHAN COOK

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2010/12/10/israel-s-racist-rabbis/

    I’ll take revisionist history over propaganda fantasy any day.

  88. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    The Holocaust, believe it or not, is not a major concern of mine. You and the Jews do not understand that the Holocaust, like oil reserves, is a finite resource. They are already running out of Holocaust fuel for the grievance industry.

    However, a fair understanding of history is of interest to me. The actual political battles being fought now, even more.

    By the way, in your book, was there anything wrong at all with Nazi ideology? What about policies? Concrete acts? No criticism is fair?

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @jacques sheete
  89. Marcus says:
    @Wally

    So you just call everyone you don’t like as a Zionist? Typical of Neo-Nazi cowards to obfuscate their anti-semitism. Personally, I hope Israel gets wiped out by Iran

    • Replies: @Wally
  90. @Wally

    Discrimination, and worse, of Germans in Poland is confirmed by
    Helmuth Fechner, ´Deutschland und Polen, 1772 – 1945’, Würzburg 1964
    Günter Grass, ‘Beim Häuten der Zwiebel’, München 2008
    Grass grew up in Danzig, he had relatives ouside Danzig.

  91. Wally says:
    @Marcus

    Except there is no proof for your uneducated claims. As I have repeatedly shown. It is you who is truly in denial.

    - If there was ‘a plan to kill every Jew the Germans could get their hands on’ then why are there countless numbers of so called “survivor$”?
    - If the alleged ‘holocaust’ was fact, then why are there laws in Europe to prevent free speech & scrutiny of it?
    - Why do Jews want ’6M Jews’ to be dead?
    - Why have Jews have been marketing the ’6,000,000′ lie since at least 1869?

    http://balder.org/judea/New-York-Times-Six-Million-Jews-Since-1869.php

    Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the ridiculous ‘holocaust’ storyline is the message. http://www.codoh.com

  92. bjondo says:

    More German civilians died/murdered in Dresden from Brit/Amer bombing than total Jew deaths all camps.

    More Germans died/murdered from 1945 to 1950 in the Morganthau-Eisenhower camps than jew died in all Jew invented pogroms.

    Pat Buchanan has a good book about WW2, “The Unnecessary War”. Doesn’t mention Balfour’s Declaration and few other important Jew related facts. Pretty much standard stuff re Jew.

  93. @EugeneGur

    The Nazis were forced to deal with troublemaking Reds. As Bolshies are prone to do, they blamed them for targeting Jews, and that was a lie. They targeted Reds, many of whom happened to be Jews.

    Contrary to the lies and propaganda, non -Red Jews did well in Nazi Germany even after New York Jews declared a boycott and war against Nazis. Zionists even collaborated with Nazis.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    , @EugeneGur
  94. @EugeneGur

    Around jan 1 1945 Hitler indeed gave orders to destroy Paris, to flood the Netherlands with sea water, by destroying all sea sluices, and to destroy any German industry.
    The orders were sabotaged, or simply refused.

    • Replies: @Wally
  95. @Ace

    It’s doubtful that Hitler assessed anything calmly and deliberately after about 1943, given his use of amphetamines and Dolophine . By most accounts, he was extremely unstable and given to rages.

    No calm, deliberate assessment could lead any thinking human being into deciding that his own people deserved obliteration simply for being defeated, especially if that human being was their leader in the war. Face it; Hitler was clearly insane once the war went against him and he succumbed to drug addiction.

    Before he actually went nuts, he was pretty much fucked in the squash after the “Great War”.

  96. @Alden

    Too bad their ideas survived and came to fruition in America

    Their ideas did much more than survive in this cesspool. Commie-nizm, if not made in Amerika, was financed and supported by many ‘Merkin “elite.” It was, and apparently still is, a very “kool” thing to do/ be.

    “Today I marvel that the world communist movement was able to beat the drums against Germany and never once betray what the inner group knew well: that some of the same forces which gave Hitler his start had also started Lenin and his staff of revolutionists from Switzerland to St. Petersburg to begin the revolution which was to result in the Soviet totalitarian state.”

    -Bella Dodd, School of Darkness, Ch 7

  97. @Marcus

    Your statement is obviously the work of a profoundly disturbed mind. Seek help before you snap and kill us all.

  98. @EugeneGur

    If you read Elie Wiesel you can learn that even he never saw a gas chamber.
    Elie Wiesel, ‘La Nuit’, 1958, 2007

    As to why Klemperer writes he understood the persecutions of jews, he read an article, from memory, in an Ukrainian newspaper, where Weizmann, later first president of Israel wrote ‘that if GB declared war on Germany any jew in the whole world would become a British agent’.

    Great pity for you, but I see Germans as victims of jews.
    Not, of course, the common jews in Europe, but of jews as Bernard Baruch and Frankfurter.
    Bruce Allen Murphy, ‘The Brandeis/Frankfurter Connection, The Secret Political Activities of Two Supreme Court Justices’, New York, 1983

    Early in the war a jew escaped from a concentration camp in Poland, and was smuggled to the USA where het talked to Frankfurter.
    Frankfurter said to him ‘I do not believe one word of what you’re saying’.

    It took me years to understand why Franfurter said this, until I understood that he was one of the architects of the war, he wrote the LendLease Law.
    The understanding was in connection with another statement by Frankfurter about what the escaped jew had said ‘I did not say he was lying, I said I did not believe him’.

    My conclusion, Frankfurter had never thought that Hitler would execute his 1939 threat, ‘that if jews again caused a world war, they themselves might be ausgerottet’.
    I do not translate the last word, there is much debate over what it meant in 1939;

    One more thing, antisemitism was far more intense in Poland and Lithuania than in Germany.
    Klemperer just had trouble, much, with the Gestapo.
    Jan T. Gross, ‘Neighbours, The Destruction of the Jewish Community in Jedwabne, Poland, 1941’, 2003, London
    Dan Jacobson, ‘Heshels Rijk Familiekroniek’, Amsterdam 1998
    The last book, how any, or most Lithuanian villages, before the Germans were there, executed all their jews in the woods.
    There are some pictures in
    Christopher R. Browning, ‘Ordinary Men, Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland’, 1992, 2001, London,
    taken in Lithuania.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @EugeneGur
    , @Wally
  99. @Twodees Partain

    And strychnine, in injections.

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  100. @jacques sheete

    Zionist collaboration with Eichmann:
    Yitshaq Ben-Ami, ‘Years of wrath, Days of glory Memoirs from the Irgun’, New York, 1982

  101. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Carroll Price

    Hitler may have hated Commies, but his plans for Eastward expansion were long-held. According to Clive Ponting, Von Ribbentrop, while visiting Churchill at his country house, Chartwell, several years before the outbreak of war, showed Churchill a map of Germany’s intended conquest of Russia, and asked what Churchill thought. Churchill is reported to have responded: “We don’t like the Russians, but we don’t hate them that much.”

    And the plan for German Eastward expansion goes back long before Hitler, in fact to Bismarck, who, when urged to found a German overseas empire, pointed to a map of Eastern Europe, saying “here is my empire.”

    Even Churchill was appalled, so it is reported, by the pointless atrocity of Dresden, muttering, after viewing photographs (or a newsreel, by some accounts) of the wreckage, “Have we become beasts?”

    But then men are beasts and always have been, and when it comes to war, they will stop at nothing to gain victory. That is the logic of natural selection.

  102. utu says:
    @EliteComminc.

    Actually you are an idiot. Indiscriminate killing is worse than selective with respect to real or imaginary deserts. If somebody kills your child because this somebody thinks that your child deserves it is worse than if somebody bombs your whole house killing everybody in it just because this somebody can to it?

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  103. @Wally

    It is a mistake for me to even argue with you, so after this comment I will not bother, and indeed I will not even check back in to see if you replied, but if you really claim to be knowledgeable about World War II, surely you should be aware that the Germans deliberately destroyed huge sections of the city as revenge after the 1944 uprising (a separate event from the earlier ghetto uprising). Also, while I am sure you would claim it is a myth, the story of Hitler’s (fortunately defied) order to destroy Paris is well-known.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @utu
    , @Carroll Price
  104. @EugeneGur

    Yes, their attitude toward collective guilt and collective punishment is rather inconsistent.

  105. Mulegino1 says:

    There is now no question on this matter. The Allies deliberately and maliciously burned Germans to death in this most horrendous war crime in all of history.

    While it is true that the Soviet troops (mostly rear echelon forces) behaved in an absolutely horrendous and barbarous manner against German civilians, the deliberate incendiary bombing of Dresden (and so many other German cities) was the product of a special and despicable kind of evil- the Cromwellian concept of murdering in the name of the Lord- who “the Lord” was in 1944-1945 is another matter entirely.

    We now know- with certainty- that the deliberate mass murder of civilians via area bombing was begun by the British under Churchill and that Hitler was resolutely opposed to such inhumane methods of warfare and only retaliated after months of pleading with the British to stop it.

    There was no “Good War.” The Second World War in Europe was fought to destroy Germany, primarily for economic and financial motives.

    The so called “Holocaust” is a cover and deflection for the abominable atrocities inflicted by the “Allies” upon the Christian peoples of Europe.

    • Agree: Beefcake the Mighty
  106. Tlc says:

    Very interesting article. But, what about the rockets der furer rained down upon London? Does that not count as ‘bombing’?

  107. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Jake

    @ an indispensable history,… leftist revolutions.

    What authors/sites do you favor?

    • Replies: @Jake
  108. EugeneGur says:
    @jacques sheete

    The Nazis were forced to deal with troublemaking Reds.

    Poor nice peaceful Nazi were forced to deal with those pesky Reds that resisted them murdering everyone in sight and finally beat them to a pulp. I truly sympathize with their plight.

    Those nasty ‘Bolshies” blamed the Nazis exactly for what the Nazis are prone to do: targeting everyone they didn’t like – the Jews, the Russians, the Gypsies, red, blue, yellow, men, women , children, didn’t matter. The Nazis were murdering bastards, but how do we call those that defend them?

    Many collaborated with the Nazis. After reading comments like yours I am no longer surprised that almost the entire Europe fought on Hitler’s side: nazism is deeply ingrained into the European psyche.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  109. Sherman says:
    @jacques sheete

    “Plenty of them’ll fuck with you and dominate you in unimaginable and ineffable ways for the cheap, transient thrills”.

    Being f*cked and dominated by Jews (likely a male Jew) appears to be some erotic fantasy of yours!

    I hope you were keeping your hands on the keyboard when you wrote this!

    Shalom,
    Sherm

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  110. utu says:
    @EugeneGur

    it’s equally justifiable to punish all Germans for very real crimes, so they should’t complain about Dresden

    In the decision to bomb German cities the justification by real or imagined deeds of Germans was never used. In fact the full scope of what was going on in Bloodlands and some concentration camps was not known at that time.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloodlands

    Everybody involved was aware this was a war crime to bomb civilian populations which was devoid of military age males.

  111. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @apollonian

    Christianity being worship of TRUTH

    Wrong!! Christianity is the worship of DECEIT!

    http://www.badnewsaboutchristianity.com/db0_onegod.htm

  112. utu says:
    @jilles dykstra

    The last book, how any, or most Lithuanian villages, before the Germans were there, executed all their jews in the woods.

    Neither Dan Jacobson nor Jan T. Gross are historians. The former is a novelist. But it is true that there were retribution by local populations against Jews after June 22, 1941 for their cooperation with the Soviet regime when it engaged in atrocities and mass deportation against the local non-Jewish population after the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. It was Jews who organized anti-Polish or anti-Lithuanian pro-Soviet militias that participated in rounding up of people for arrests and deportations. They were the ones who prepared the proscription lists for the Soviet authorities. The retributions did not have anything to do with anti-semitism. The Jews as citizens of Poland or Lithuania betrayed their countries and did great harm to their non-Jewish citizens. There was not much sympathy for Jews left when the mobile SS groups arrived to round up Jews to ghettos created in smaller towns or in some cases to kill them like in Jedwabne after Germany attack USSR. germans were viewed as liberators in Polish and Baltic states territories occupied by USSR.

  113. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    I heard insulting people you don’t know is a great way of convincing people.

  114. Wally says:
    @Marcus

    You’re projecting, when in fact you are the coward, afraid to debate your juvenile claims.

    antisemitic: any thought or person that Jew doesn’t like.

    The ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    see the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here:

    http://codoh.com

    No name calling, level playing field debate here:

    http://forum.codoh.com

  115. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Mark Green

    Onward Christian soldiers. On to Damascus! On to Tehran! On To Moscow!

    And, On to Hell!!

  116. utu says:
    @Ivan K.

    There is no contradiction between what Dyson and Irving said. What is interesting is that in 1940 during the Battle of England in the phase when Germans were bombing airports to destroy RAF Churchill decided to start bombing civilian population in Germany to provoke Germans to reciprocate which they did after 2 weeks of provocations to their own detriment because that lifted the pressure off from badly beaten RAF and thus the Battle of England was lost for Germany.

    BTW: I have just discovered that my internet provider Time Warner started blocking David Irving site few days ago.

  117. Wally says:
    @jilles dykstra

    No he didn’t.
    Show us these ‘Hitler orders to destroy Paris, to flood the Netherlands with sea water, by destroying all sea sluices, and to destroy any German industry.’
    You cannot.

    “we’ve often fantasized about drawing up an indictment against Adolf Hitler himself. And to put into that indictment the major charge: the Final Solution of the Jewish question in Europe, the physical annihilation of Jewry. And then it dawned upon us, what would we do? We didn’t have the evidence.”
    - “holocaust historian” Raul Hilberg

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  118. EugeneGur says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Great pity for you, but I see Germans as victims of jews.

    Well, some people see the earth as flat while others see alien spaceships land daily in their lawns. What does that prove except that you might have issues with your understanding?

    One more thing, antisemitism was far more intense in Poland and Lithuania than in Germany.

    True, the German Nazis had many allies in their quest for racial purity. I am not saying that nazism is restricted to Germany or Germans. There were and still are many Nazis of other nationalities. That is true that the Germans use the local talent to deal with not only the “Jewish question” but also with other issues such as the local resistance movements. Those local Nazis are also know to take the initiative on occasion or eagerly report their neighbors to the Germans. How does this absolve the German Nazis or makes them less repugnant?

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  119. Wally says:
    @Twodees Partain

    Got proof, or just Zionist propaganda?

    I see you you ignored Chuchill’s verifiable raging alcoholism.

    http://www.codoh.com

    We’re talking about an alleged ’6M Jews & 5M others’ … 11,000,000.
    There is not a single verifiable excavated enormous mass grave with contents actually SHOWN, not just claimed, (recall the claim of 900,000 buried at Treblinka, 1,250,000 at Auschwitz, or 250,000 at Sobibor, 34,000 at Babi Yar) even though Jews claim they still exist and claim to know exactly where these alleged enormous mass graves are.

    • Replies: @anon
  120. Wally says:
    @jilles dykstra

    see the ‘Jedwabne’ lie debunked here:
    Jedwabne: photographic exhibition of a fraudulent exhumation

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3108&hilit=jedwabne

    lots more:

    https://forum.codoh.com/search.php?keywords=Jedwabne+&fid%5B0%5D=2

    see Zionist Christopher R. Browning’s ‘Ordinary Men, Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland’, demolished here:
    Reserve police battalion 101

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1422

    and:
    Christopher Browning: The State of the Evidence For the ‘Final Solution’
    By Brian A. Renk

    https://codoh.com/library/document/979/?lang=en

    The ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    see the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    , @utu
  121. Mulegino1 says:

    Germans, whether good or indifferent, saw concentration camps for what they were- essentially rehabilitation centers for anti-social elements. The difference between the German camps and the prison industry in America is that the former were NOT factories for further criminality and recidivism, but existed primarily for the purpose of rehabilitating inmates and returning them to society to fulfill their role as productive citizens. Contrast that with the gang culture and iron pumping thug culture of high security of American prisons.

    Before 1941, the only Jews in these camps were those who were known Communists or criminals.

    After 1941, i.e., the invasion of the Soviet Union, many Jews were indeed conscripted for labor purposes and placed in camps. While there may have been many incidents of injustice involved, this was no different than what the Americans did to their own population of Japanese citizens and German aliens. The difference in conditions in the camps was due to the fact that the American hinterland was virtually untouched by the ravages of war, while the German nation was the epicenter of its destructiveness.

    The demonization of National Socialist Germany is a necessary, indispensable element for creating a tyrannical and oppressive world government based upon the social revolutionary ideas of Trotsky, the Frankfurt School and the new Transhumanist Synagogue of Satan.

    • Replies: @Karl
  122. @Anonymous

    You make the Jews sound very dangerous. Are you an Anti-Semite?

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  123. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    Why are you so eager to defend Hitler?

    • Replies: @apollonian
  124. As I heard it, Dresden was scheduled to coincide with the Yalta conference which was February 4-11 in order to intimidate Stalin who did not have air power. The Dresden bombing was postponed because of bad weather.

  125. @Authenticjazzman

    You may include my two grandfathers out.

    Thank you.

  126. EugeneGur says:

    Germans, whether good or indifferent, saw concentration camps for what they were- essentially rehabilitation centers for anti-social elements.

    You are a good candidate for that kind of rehabilitation.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    , @Mulegino1
  127. @utu

    Pity for you that I visited Lithuania, and spoke with a foreigner living there quite long, who spoke the language.
    What he said to me is in line with Jacobson, novelist or not.
    You could also read
    Lonely Planet Guide ‘Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania’, Nicola Williams, Debra Herrmann, Cathryn Kemp, 2003, Victoria, Australia.
    where the discusion in the Lithuanian parliament is mentioned, about restoring the ghetto.
    The question was asked something like ‘must the Lithuanians again become slaves of the jews ?’.
    My earlier mentioned source told me that before WWII jews controlled the economy of Lithuania.

    You have no comment on the pictures in ‘Ordinary Men’, with the stories, how jews were beaten to death.
    Then there was a statement in a tv report about jews in Lithuania ‘they were the better traders’, and ‘how they collaborated with Russians’.

    It all adds up, you see.
    The great thing about truth is that it is consistent.

    About Gross, historian or not, is it true what he writes.
    Bogdan Musial, ´Sowjetische Partisanen 1941 – 1944, Mythos und Wirklichkeit’, Paderborn 2009
    Quite interesting on how jews were hardly accepted in the resistance.

    Then there is
    Anne Applebaum, ‘Between East and West, Across the borderlands of Europe’, Londen, 1995
    where an old, Polish if I remember well, says ‘Hitler did horrible things, but he delivered us from the jews’.

    On top of all this you could read
    Jakob Wassermann, ‘Die Juden von Zirndorf’, 1897 1999 München
    André Schwartz-Bart, ‘Le Dernier des Justes’, 1959, 1980 Paris
    novels, but both describe how jews lived in competely separate communities, and were not liked.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
    , @utu
  128. @utu

    It’s called total warfare. If you bomb my home, don’t be shocked that i might choose to bomb your home, your car, and anything that enables you to make war to prevent you from bombing my home or anyone else’s again.. In the case of Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki – they were responses to acts of war by the said state.

    If however, I bomb your home for no reason other than as a test of my weapons systems: Guernica, that is something else entirely. N ow I get the contention by many that the Jews deserved because they hurt Germans, I am not sure i buy the argument, but I understand it.

    In the case of WWII, Germany was the aggressor and her aggression was met with aggression. And contrary to the author’s press, there is a good deal of debate about the ethical use of total war.
    my idiocy not withstanding.

  129. @Wally

    It would take me quite some time to find the name of the German officer who refused to destroy Paris.
    German industry, I think Speer got the order.
    Dutch sluices, inn a tv report ‘Das zähme Fluten’ those who sabotaged were interviewed, their trick was to to inflate the calculations for the quantity of explosives that it was more than Germany had at the time.
    As a replacement measure the sluices were opened, this was zähme Fluten, gradual flooding.
    But the Wieringermeer, in the NW, was flooded completely.
    A relative of me even went there before anything was under water in search of food.

  130. @EugeneGur

    Read
    Kai S. Schreyber (Hrsg.), ´Warum wir ADOLF HITLER wählten, Jungwähler von 1933/38 berichten’, 2001 Kiel
    on how the German streets became safe after Hitler began with cncentration camps, in 1933

  131. @plonialmoni

    Ever heard of neocons, AIPAC, AEI ?

  132. @EugeneGur

    Great pity for you, but I see Germans as victims of jews.

    Well, some people see the earth as flat while others see alien spaceships land daily in their lawns. What does that prove except that you might have issues with your understanding?

    Given your obvious propensity to be suckered by old propaganda, you’re no doubt one of those who see the earth as flat and who see alien spaceships land daily in their lawns.

    Here’s a quote that should stimulate a few brain cells, if any.

    “… this entire myth, so prevalent then and even now about Hitler, and about the Japanese, is a tissue of fallacies from beginning to end. Every plank in this nightmare evidence is either completely untrue or not entirely the truth.
    If people should learn this intellectual fraud about Hitler’s Germany, then they will begin to ask questions, and searching questions…”

    Murray Rothbard, Revisionism for Our Time
    Mr. Rothbard was an American Jew and an historian of the very highest caliber.

    http://mises.org/daily/2592

    It’s a short read and should accommodate even a very short attention span.

  133. @jilles dykstra

    I didn’t know about the strychnine, but that could also help account for the rages. Valkyrie wasn’t about a few disgruntled non-nazis simply wanting to replace Hitler. He really was a raving lunatic in the last few years of his life, and the men who tried to kill him were the sane ones in his government.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  134. @anon

    “Defending Hitler”?–actually it’s just matter of defending TRUTH (= Christ, Gosp. JOHN 14:6) in general. For didn’t dear unc’ Adolf stand-up for Germany and German people against Jew world order? U need to consider humanity has always hated Jew liars, monsters, and murderers like urself, eh?

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    , @helena
  135. @Wally

    I know Poles do not like the Jedbabne story.
    However, considering the attitude of Poles towards jews it, in my opinion, may well have been true.
    I did not write that I believe ‘Ordinary men’, just mentioned the pictures of Lithuanians beating jews to death
    I, in fact, have great doubts about the book, the Einsatzkommando’s, also based on
    Léon Poliakov, ‘Bréviaire de la Haine, Le IIIe Reich et les Juifs’, 1951, 1974, Paris
    how groups of fifty to a hundred men massacred 40.000 jews, Poliakov mentions many examples, is a bit difficult to understand.
    Even more difficult how later special groups with special fluids destroyed all bones inn all mass graves.
    Then there is the small problem of how just some twenty of the supposed 1000 men of the Einsatzkommando’s gave evidence, and appeared in Neurenberg.

  136. @EliteCommInc.

    “In the case of WWII, Germany was the aggressor and her aggression was met with aggression. And contrary to the author’s press, there is a good deal of debate about the ethical use of total war.”

    U’re just another Jewwy liar, eh?–wasn’t it Brit. and France who declared war against Germany?–Brit. and France, puppets of the Jew world order banking power, like Jew S A, which was behind them, encouraging war. Didn’t Brit. make offensive alliance w. Poland against Germany in Mar 1939? And didn’t Poland threaten Germany w. war if Germans moved to re-unite w. German city of Danzig? And these pt.s are besides well-known facts of Poland’s illegal taking of German territory just after WWI when Germany was required to be dis-armed.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  137. @jilles dykstra

    …both describe how jews lived in competely separate communities, and were not liked.

    True. Many not only lived in separate communities, but those that did, did it by choice. They were not liked nor did they like anyone else, apparently.

    Talk about racial supremacy, and racial purity, look no further than the prohibition against marrying outside of the tribe.

    Furthermore, Zionism was a largely separatist (apartheid) reaction against the assimilation of successful Jews. I.e., the losers couldn’t stand to see any of their own getting ahead and getting accepted by the deplorable goyim.

    The loser Jews are guilty of everything they blame others for.

  138. @Twodees Partain

    Hitler was under great stress, in any case from 1933 on.
    His doctor gave him injections with concoctions he made himself.

  139. @apollonian

    It in my opinion it is about facts.
    It cannot be denied that in just three years time, 1933 to 1936, Germany was resurrected from Versailles.
    Unemployment was reduced from six to one million, on a population of some 44 million.
    Hunger and frozen feet, over.
    And Germans could be proud of their country again, a country with influence in the world.
    One may criticise the way in which it was done.

  140. @EliteCommInc.

    ” In the case of WWII, Germany was the aggressor and her aggression was met with aggression. ”

    You obviously know nothing about the Polish provocations meant to cause war.
    Alas Hitler took the bait.

  141. Olorin says:
    @Anonymous

    So you are saying “The Holocaust” (TM) is an invention–an inversion of truth if you will?

  142. @EugeneGur

    “I know you people are ignorant, and it sounds particularly ridiculous when you accuse someone else of being indoctrinated. Try reading something else besides that silly website you refer to all the time.”

    Yes. These morons sound like the Hitler-worshiping cretins who have ruined Caste Football.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
    , @Wally
  143. utu says:
    @Wally

    Ok Wally, I have read this Brian Renk of yours you linked to. He does not contest Browning work on Police Battalion 101. He also agrees that several 100′s of thousands of Jews were shot by various Einsatzgruppen:

    I haven’t contested the mass shootings as having occurred. I’ll repeat: it’s certain that several hundred thousand people were shot by the Einsatzgruppen.

    So, why did you link to it?

  144. Mulegino1 says:
    @EugeneGur

    Don’t you know how to reply directly to a comment?

    Since I am not a criminal, drug addict, public homosexual or a communist agitator, why should I need rehabilitation?

    Would such a thing not be better spent on those whose existence is not only a drag on society, but a danger to it?

    • Replies: @EugeneGur
    , @anon
  145. Wally says:
    @jilles dykstra

    IOW, there are no ‘Hitler orders’ that you claimed.

    http://www.codoh.com

  146. @jilles dykstra

    “It would take me some time to find the name of the German officer who refused to destroy Paris.”

    It was Dietrich Von Choltitz.

  147. utu says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Listen old man, I do not know what is your argument. I know you are well read but you are not blessed with the ability to discern truth from propaganda, unfortunately. I have responded to your claim that Jews were killed “before the Germans were there.” No, killing of Jews started after June 22, 1941 when Soviet occupying forces were pushed out form Baltic States and Eastern Poland. Anti-semitism is not necessary to explain the motives for killings why in some cases local populations aided and abetted Germans in killing the Jews. In most cases they were forced to participate. It was a revenge for despicable conduct and behavior of Jews under Soviet occupation when it was them who aided and abetted Soviet occupiers. Was the anti-semitism a factor? Probably, but the intensity of the anti-semitism increased after September 17, 1939 when Red Army and NKVD moved into Poland and were met by official welcoming Jewish committees who very soon started hunting down Poles and making proscription lists to NKVD.

    • Replies: @Alden
    , @helena
    , @jilles dykstra
  148. Wally says:
    @Anon

    The ‘Nazis’ did nothing that wasn’t being done worldwide at the time.
    recall:

    - FDR forcing Jap. – Ams. into concentration camps, stealing their possession, etc.

    - recall the worldwide dislike & criminalization of homosexuals, which BTW, there is no proof that the ‘Nazis’ killed a single one because of being gay, not one. Same for the gypsies. *

    - recall the Soviet persecution, & gulaging of countless Christians & political opponents

    * The Myth of a Nazi Extermination of Homosexuals by Jack Wikoff http://www.cwporter.com/homo.htm

    Gypsies and Homosexuals in the Camps http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=1894

    homosexuals – Yad Vashem … http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=1930

    The ‘homosexuals & gypsies’ canard is merely an attempt by Jews to buy votes for their laughable and impossible ’6M & gas chambers’.

    There were the ‘Nazis’ with the mythological ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ and there were the ‘Nazis’ without the mythological ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’.

  149. @David In TN

    These morons sound like the Hitler-worshiping cretins…

    Any Hitler worshipping going on here sure beats the Hell outta the Bolshie and Izzy worshipping.

    You got a problem with any of that?

    • Replies: @David In TN
  150. Wally says:
    @James Kabala

    - The Germans destroyed whatever buildings that were necessary to uproot the rioters who had dug in.
    Call that what you like, but Warsaw was not “destroyed”. Not even close.

    - So “well known” that you cannot produce the claimed ‘Hitler orders’ for this ‘non-destruction’ of Paris. Truly absurd.

    Indeed, witchcraft & sorcery were “well known”.
    The list of “well known”, no longer accepted ‘facts’ is legion.

    “One should not ask, how this mass murder was made possible. It was technically possible, because it happened. This has to be the obligatory starting-point for any historical research regarding this topic. We would just like to remind you: There is no debate regarding the existence of the gas chambers, and there can never be one.”

    - endorsed by 34 “reputable historians” and published in the French daily Le Monde on February 21, 1979

    http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5205

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @tango47
    , @Anon
  151. @Carlton Meyer

    For those unfamiliar, the British bombed at night, which was safer, but couldn’t see any targets. The city was the target, which they bombed with firebombs to start fires and burn up everyone.

    I’m going to have to pull you up on this one. The RAF flew at much lower altitudes, making them more vulnerable to flak and the Luftwaffe night fighters. My uncle and his crew are buried in a Commonwealth cemetery in southern Poland. The same radar-guided Luftwaffe pilot shot down three of their squadrons’ aircraft in one night.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  152. Wally says:
    @David In TN

    Indeed, we hate Zionist lies. We love the truth

    There was Hitler with the mythological ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ and there was Hitler without the mythological ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’.

    “we’ve often fantasized about drawing up an indictment against Adolf Hitler himself. And to put into that indictment the major charge: the Final Solution of the Jewish question in Europe, the physical annihilation of Jewry. And then it dawned upon us, what would we do? We didn’t have the evidence.”

    - “holocaust historian” Raul Hilberg

    http://www.codoh.com

  153. utu says:
    @James Kabala

    the Germans deliberately destroyed huge sections of the city as revenge after the 1944 uprising

    This is a very strange episode. They did it after emptying the city from all of its population. They did a lot systematic looting. And then the order was to destroy the city. It was in the fall of 1944 when Paris was already liberated and Allies were getting close to Germany. Clearly they were driven insane by their powerlessness and the looming defeat.

    BTW, people were not killed then. Only in the early stages of the 1944 Uprising in August 10′s of thousands of civilians were massacred (by mostly Ukrainian and Russian SS units) in Warsaw but towards the end Germans started to behave better and gave the Poles status of military combatants so they qualified for the POW status instead of being shot.

  154. Churchill, like many others, endeavored to blame Germany for being the first to saturate civilians with terror-bombs —at Guernica in Spain on behalf of Franco’s forces, and in Rotterdam, during the war with Holland.

    Firstly, a major omission from this passage: during the 1939 invasion of Poland—literally within a week of the war’s outbreak— the Luftwaffe was indiscriminately bombing Warsaw and strafing refugee columns.

    Secondly, if you read the passage including/following this quote with any attention whatsoever, you’ll see that nowhere does it actually bother to try to refute Churchill’s point that the Nazi-helmed German state pioneered the tactic of terror bombing civilians that would later be used to such terrible effect against its own population. This is of course because Churchill’s point is factually correct, and seriously undermines Hoffman’s argument.

    Nothing that occurred in Guernica, Rotterdam, or for that matter London, begins to even approach the scale of the holocaust that the firebombs of the air forces of Churchill and Franklin Roosevelt inflicted on Dresden.

    This is, to say the least, an incredibly misleading statement. This is for several reasons, but most importantly, the reason that casualties from German bombing campaigns never reached the casualties of Anglo-American bombing campaigns is because Germany lacked the strategic bombing capacity and air superiority necessary to inflict those casualties. If the Luftwaffe had ever had the strength and control of the skies that Allied forces achieved by 1945, there is no reason to doubt that it would have matched, or indeed far exceeded, the casualties produced by Allied bombing campaigns.

    Consider that during the 1940-1941 period, when Germany actually did have a matter of parity in terms of aerial power with Britain, the Luftwaffe was ordered to systematically bomb British civilian population centers with the express purpose of inflicting mass civilian casualties to undercut morale/support for the government. This is for all intents and purposes exactly equivalent to the logic behind RAF/USAAF bombing of Germany. (There were actually important differences in RAF and USAAF doctrine, but since this is long enough already I won’t bother to separate the two here.)

    The reason that the Luftwaffe only (“only”) inflicted ~40,000 casualties is that it incurred unsustainable losses in the Battle of Britain and Hitler ordered the German war machine to prepare to focus on a land war with the USSR in Eastern Europe. Again, if the Luftwaffe had the resources that the Allies did by 1945, there is no reason to think, given its historical behavior, that it would not have continued to inflict mass civilian casualties unless/until the British government surrendered.

    There are many more instances of serious confusion in the article, but I’ll address those in other comments for the sake of readability.

  155. oyy Veh.

    I understand that many would do anything to avert the blame for WWII from Germany.

    But regardless of whether Germany was baited or not, they initiated a war. And they initiated a war on several fronts that they did not have the resources to sustain.

    If others want to blame Jews, Poles, French, low IQ or the cows, that’s fine with me. The war was not about fought about Germany’s internal issues. The war was fought because of Germany’s expansionist ambitions, including but not limited to her goals of restoring an ancient Nordic belief of the superior comprised on the original peoples of the region — race.

    The tragic decimation of Dresden was intended to stop Germany’s ability to prosecute a war against other states.

  156. Wally says:
    @utu

    Please note what you actually quoted, “people”, not Jews.

    And as I have stated, non-uniformed combatants were subject to execution, per international law. That was the purpose of the Einsatzgruppen, to pursue & eliminate the illegal terrorists.
    As for Renk’s “several hundred thousand people were shot by the Einsatzgruppen.”, I contest that specific number as subsequent research has exposed it as wrong. But that’s the way real history works. You adapt to newer, more empirical studies, aka: ‘revise’.

    The fake ‘holocau$t’ Industry now claims that ca. 2,000,000 Jews were shot by the Einsatzgruppen into huge pits, so, anyone, please SHOW us the actual excavations, the enormous mass graves, & remains that are claimed to exist, their locations are allegedly known.
    Is that:
    100 graves of 20,000?
    200 graves of 10,000?
    400 graves of 5,000?
    500 graves of 4,000?
    1000 graves of 2000?
    2000 graves of 1000?

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @EugeneGur
  157. Nothing that occurred in Guernica, Rotterdam, or for that matter London, begins to even approach the scale of the holocaust that the firebombs of the air forces of Churchill and Franklin Roosevelt inflicted on Dresden.

    This statement is also highly misleading because there are several important instances in the Second World War where German armed forces inflicted, or were ordered to inflict, exactly the kind of sack-of-Troy destruction of a city—huge civilian casualties and destruction of its physical infrastructure and cultural monuments– that American bombers leveled on Dresden, notably:

    Warsaw after the 1944 uprising against German occupation, Leningrad during the German siege thereof from 1941-1944 and Stalingrad during the battle fought in and around it in 1942-1943. Additionally, Hitler ordered the destruction of Paris in 1944, and the destruction of much of Germany’s own infrastructure in the “Nero Order” in 1945, but thankfully subordinates refused to carry out the orders.

    As I noted above, the reason that Germany did not inflict the kind of damage on Allied cities that was inflicted on Dresden from American bombing was that it lacked the aerial strength to do so. If Germany had had that strength, it would have done so; and German land forces repeatedly inflicted similar destruction when they possessed the capacity and were given the orders to do so.

    (Note that I’m not justifying Allied bombing tactics, which I think AC Grayling persuasively argued in Among the Dead Cities were immoral and counterproductive.)

    Still more to come in further comments.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
    , @utu
  158. @jacques sheete

    So you identify yourself as one of the Hitler-worshiping cretins?

    BTW I hate the Communists and their apologists. And the hypocrites who want a wall around Israel but oppose a wall for America.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  159. @utu

    germans [sic] were viewed as liberators in Polish and Baltic states territories occupied by USSR.

    I’m reminded of an observation a Wehrmacht infantryman made in his diary during Barbarossa: “We came as liberators—of their foodstuffs, of their coats, of their boots…”

    • Replies: @utu
    , @jacques sheete
  160. tango47 says:
    @Wally

    “Call that what you like, but Warsaw was not “destroyed. Not even close.”
    Are you really that obtuse? It seems that you are not aware of the August 1944 Warsaw uprising and its aftermath in which the Nazis spent precious resources in the fall of 1944 turning Warsaw into another Carthage. Perhaps not so surprising given that due to Hollywood, most Americans only know of the 1943 Warsaw Ghetto Uprising. Do you have any other source of references besides CODOH?

    • Replies: @The King is A Fink
  161. @jilles dykstra

    It would take me quite some time to find the name of the German officer who refused to destroy Paris.

    There was a well-known book (1965) about it, “Is Paris Burning?,” which was subsequently made into a movie. The general was Dietrich von Choltitz (played in the film by Gert Fröbe of Goldfinger fame).

    You’re wasting your time with Wally, as I am sure you are already well aware.

    • Replies: @Alden
    , @Wally
  162. @James Kabala

    Hitler never ordered the destruction of Paris. In fact the exact opposite is true. Shortly after German forces conquered France, Hitler made a personal tour of Paris to pay tribute to Napoleon’s tomb and to admire Paris’ unique architecture and works of art. In addition, Hitler held the English people in high regard, and did everything in his power to avoid war between Germany and England. But true to form Churchill, who harbored a soft spot in his heart for Communist Russia would entertain no ideas about avoiding war with Germany, who in truth, served as the guardians of Western civilization against Communist hoards encroaching from the eastern front.

    • LOL: Alden
  163. @apollonian

    I am not going to challenge history. The British and the French agreed to protect Poland from her expansionist aims. The reality is that neither country was in a position to do so and Poland fell to the Germans and the Soviets.

    By the time we get to Poland the ambitions of Germany exceeded agreed upon limits and the only c choice to stop said ambitions was war. Before I ventured into old history courses I thought i would take a peek. Unfortunately, the problem begins before Danzig, but it did not stop there.

    https://ww2db.com/battle_spec.php?battle_id=162

    Hence the expression Germany’s expansionist ambitions that exceeded, retaking old German territory from the previous conflict. Germany’s constant extending the territorial demands made it clear — only war would stop her aggression.

    https://ww2db.com/battle_spec.php?battle_id=162

    So many of these conversations are like having a chat with lawyers, who would like to remove consideration of the larger picture for a small slice to make their cake. It’s referred to as fallacy of composition, failure to consider the larger components of a matter – before making conclusions. The invasion of Poland settled any doubts about German ambitions.

    • Replies: @helena
  164. MBlanc46 says:

    Don’t start a war and your cities probably won’t be bombed.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @jacques sheete
  165. @tango47

    Indeed. A lot of people are also unaware that the RAF and SAAF flew weapons to the Polish Home Army in Warsaw during the Warsaw airlift. My uncle was one of the hundreds of aircrew killed on these flights to Warsaw. The bombers arrived over Warsaw at night and a common theme among those that returned was the sight of the city in flames.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_airlift

    I’m all for honest debate, but talking out of your arse doesn’t count. Wally should visit Warsaw and walk the streets, see the photos in the museums showing the destruction, or talk to some Polish people.

    • Replies: @Wally
  166. Wally says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    “In the case of WWII, Germany was the aggressor and her aggression was met with aggression. And contrary to the author’s press, there is a good deal of debate about the ethical use of total war.”

    Incredibly wrong, uninformed.

    ‘Responsibility for WW2′ https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7544

    ‘Polish Atrocities against Germans before 1. September 1939′ https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7525

    Operation Barbarossa Was A Preventive Attack https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7999

    ‘Who started bombing civilians first:Germany or Great Britain’ https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=8172

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  167. Alden says:
    @for-the-record

    I read that book. I didn’t know it was true or just endless WW2 fiction when I read it.

    • Replies: @for-the-record
  168. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    It wasn’t a riot, you idiot. It was Poles attempting to free their capital from foreign occupation. Do you have a problem with an occupied people doing that? Yes or no?

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Wally
  169. @Supreme Gentleman

    Yes, and if the Germans had the Death Star, they would have blown up Alderan.

  170. @utu

    That order of magnitude (100’s K) of mass shootings is indeed realistic, and supported by actual German documentation. Just as clearly these were security measures (doubtless very excessive), and NOT part of an extermination plan. (Renk’s article is excellent, BTW.)

    • Replies: @L.K
  171. Alden says:
    @utu

    You are correct. The Russians and Ukrainians started executing the Jew communists who killed them during the famine. Glad you mentioned the Russian occupation of Eastern Poland which for some reason historians forget in favor of writing about the occupation of west Poland by the Germans.

    All during the war Polish Jews trained and prepared to take over the entire country after the war ended. A big part of their activity was tracking down Christian Poles who might be leaders when the war ended. The communist Poles, most of whom were Jew killed them whenever they found them.

    The demographic that suffered the highest percentage of deaths was the catholic priests. 95 percent were killed during the war. As both Germans and Russians seized territory, they arrrsted every priest they found.

    Reason was that the church and the priests had always been the leaders of Polish nationalism. The first mass killings at Auschwitz were 5 thousand priests killed in October 1939. Jews consider mentioning that fact to be anti Semitic.

    I knew a Jewish woman, now deceased, who lived in Warsaw, then in the Jewish ghetto all during the war and ended up a school teacher in San Francisco. I’ll tell her story someday on this site.

    • Replies: @Wally
  172. utu says:
    @Supreme Gentleman

    Warsaw after the 1944 uprising against German occupation, Leningrad during the German siege thereof from 1941-1944 and Stalingrad during the battle fought in and around it in 1942-1943.

    The issue is about killing civilians and not about just destroying cities infrastructure.

    Warsaw was destroyed starting in October 1944 by demolition teams after the surrender of the Home Army and after all civilians were evacuated. No civilians were killed then.

    Warsaw 1939, Rotterdam 1940 and Stalingrad 1942 were battlefields If Poles, Dutch or Soviets left the cities open no civilians would have been killed. According to various conventions Germans did not commit war crimes when bombing cities that they were trying capture during a siege. But bombing some far away city like Dresden or Hamburg or Tokyo was a war crime.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  173. @Den Lille Abe

    You will fight a war on your own land against Muslims, or perish or be subjugated by them. I hope that it occurs soon enough that the numbers still favor Europeans.

  174. Mimesis says:

    This was in the aftermath of the Battle of the Bulge, the largest German offensive in the West since 1940. If you had told the average British or American soldier in Europe at that time that the Germans were beaten and the war was over, he would have thought you were crazy.

    In fact, that kind of thinking had just got a lot of men killed: General Bradley ignored warnings that the Germans were massing to attack him because he had thought the Germans were beaten and the war was over.

    How many more rabbits was Hitler going to pull out of his hat?

    The prudent and sensible attitude in February 1945 was to assume that the Germans were still highly dangerous, and that no chances were to be taken with them.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
    , @utu
  175. utu says:
    @Supreme Gentleman

    “We came as liberators—of their foodstuffs, of their coats, of their boots…”

    Yes, but it did not look that way in summer 1941. People were really happy that Soviets were chased away. Germans were engaged in burials of prisoners massacred by NKVD and in exhumations of mass graves that NKVD left behind. Photographs of these events were taken. Strangely some of them were used in the (in-)famous exhibition on Wehrmacht crimes in Germany showing Wehrmacht officers next to mass graves attributing the victims to German crimes.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wehrmachtsausstellung

    A Polish historian (Bogdan Musial) and a Hungarian historian recognized the pictures and the traveling exhibition had to be cancelled and overhauled. There was an investigation and the matter was hush-hush whitewashed. This was happening around the time of Goldhagen’s book offensive in Germany as a part of another push to squeeze more money out of Germany. Can’t be excluded that Israel got one extra submarine for free because of this campaign. Though Goldhagen did not get a tenure in Harvard even though some rich guy founded a special chair just for him. Perhaps this was a part of the deal: you get a submarine but Goldhagen has to go.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  176. @Mimesis

    So kill civilians and whine when enemy soldiers fight back? This is indeed the American way, witness the cowardly statements of American troops in Iraq during the 2003 invasion, the immediate bombing of civilians in Serbia during Holy Week, etc.

  177. utu says:
    @Anon

    Do you have a problem with an occupied people doing that? Yes or no?

    This is a good question. People have a right to fight but whether the decision to fight is right or not it is another issue particularly when you do it in a city full of civilians. Poles miscalculated or really wanted to do a suicidal last stand for political calculations. In retrospect it was a great mistake or great crime or both. Anyway the leadership responsible for starting the uprising should have been shot after the war. 200,000 people died for nothing.

    Actually, if Germans and Hitler was smarter they would let Poles have the city and make it Stalin’s problem because these Poles were as anti-Soviet as they were anti-German. Then in 1945 Stalin would have to leave a division or two to keep an eye on Warsaw instead of using them in march on Berlin. Also this Poles in Warsaw could put a strain on the alliance with Stalin. But clearly Germans were not thinking clear at this point as their pointless decision to demolish whole Warsaw after evacuating everybody from it indicates.

  178. utu says:
    @Mimesis

    That’s is what you get when you do not leave any options for your enemies by insisting on unconditional surrender.

  179. Wally says:
    @The King is A Fink

    I have done exactly that, thank you.

    I’ve seen the photos. Talked to many.
    It was like I said.
    Damage, yes. Warsaw “destroyed”? Laughable.

    Wikipedia on anything of interest to Jews? Seriously?
    It’s rather like asking the wolf to guard the chicken coop.

    Zionist Wikipedia Editing Course: http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/139189
    Oops.

    Sorry about your alleged “uncle”, but there was a war going on.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @for-the-record
  180. Wally says:
    @Anon

    Call it what you will, you Zionist hick.

    I certainly support Palestinians fighting Jew occupation.

    • Replies: @Anon
  181. @EliteCommInc.

    The people in Dresden were attacking America?

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  182. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    Then you should support Poles fighting Nazis, lest someone think you’re just someone with an axe to grind.

    A riot implies civil unrest. This was a national army fighting an unlawful occupation. Your insults show only that you know you’re lying.

  183. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    Ninety percent of the city was destroyed.

    And again, this was a year after the Jewish revolt. The ‘44 had virtually no Jews involved in it.

    • Replies: @Wally
  184. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    You adapt to newer, more empirical studies, aka: ‘revise’.

    What you don’t do is throw out all the evidence you disagree with and seize on only what serves you.

    • Replies: @Wally
  185. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Twodees Partain

    It wasn’t just the drugs. Hitler took pride in his moody and unpredictable “artistic” temperament, in contrast to the conventional rational/logical mentality of the professional soldiers and politicians around him. He was different. He knew he was different. It was why he was fuhrer.

  186. Wally says:
    @Alden

    “The first mass killings at Auschwitz were 5 thousand priests killed in October 1939. Jews consider mentioning that fact to be anti Semitic.”

    The proof is where?

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Alden
  187. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @utu

    Nobody was committing “war crimes” by bombing cities (whether near or far) because this wasn’t against the laws of war as they then stood. Even killing civilians wasn’t “illegal” if it could be shown they were assisting the enemy in some way.

  188. Wally says:
    @MBlanc46

    By your own logic:
    ‘Don’t steal Palestinian land and there won’t be attacks on Israel.

    ‘Responsibility for WW2′ https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7544

    Who started bombing civilians first:Germany or Great Britain https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=8172

    ‘THE JUSTFICATION OF THE BOMBING OF DRESDEN?’ https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=921

    Operation Barbarossa Was A Preventive Attack https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7999

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Anon
  189. Wally says:
    @for-the-record

    So again,where is your claimed ‘Hitler orders’ for this absurd non-destruction of Paris?

    Indeed, arguing your propaganda with someone who knows the facts, and can prove them, is a “waste of time” for the amateur hour freshman.

    “we’ve often fantasized about drawing up an indictment against Adolf Hitler himself. And to put into that indictment the major charge: the Final Solution of the Jewish question in Europe, the physical annihilation of Jewry. And then it dawned upon us, what would we do? We didn’t have the evidence.”
    - “holocaust historian” Raul Hilberg

    http://www.codoh.com

  190. @Anonymous

    Then of course the Germans committed no war crimes either, and you must admit that Nuremburg was a complete farce.

  191. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    Precisely. You see how it is when you don’t apply a double standard?

  192. Alden says:
    @Wally

    Ever heard of university libraries? There is a lot of information out there you won’t find in pro Nazi websites.

    It’s one thing to be anti Israel and anti Jewish communism and anti White activism. it’s another to be a pro Nazi troll who defends everything the Germans did during the war.

    The killing of the priests is common knowledge among WW2 historians and is mentioned in almost all accounts of the Polish occupation written by non Jewish historians. Just go to your nearest university library and start reading about the Polish occupation during WW2. Codoh and Wikipedia ar not the only sources of information.

    You don’t believe me? I don’t give a rat’s ass. You are not my thesis advisors.

    You want to claim the German occupation was a benign one? Go ahead, who believes your defense of every atrocity done by the Germans.

    • Agree: David In TN
    • Replies: @utu
    , @jacques sheete
  193. utu says:
    @Anonymous

    You went to the same war college with Lt. William Calley?

  194. utu says:
    @Alden

    The first mass killings at Auschwitz were 5 thousand priests killed in October 1939.

    The killing of the priests is common knowledge among WW2 historians and is mentioned in almost all accounts of the Polish occupation written by non Jewish historians.

    I am afraid you are incorrect. And you must have misremembered what you were taught in schools. Many priest were sent to concentration camps and many died there usually from overwork, malnutrition and disease. And yes, some were executed. The total number of Polish priest who died in concentration camps according to wiki is 1811 but personally I have some reservations about the number. Certainly there was no mass killing in October 1939 and certainly not in Auschwitz because the camp was not functioning yet in October.

    In my opinion Poland’s losses during WWII are exaggerated just like Soviet losses. For various reasons right after the war it was decided/established that 3 millions Polish Jews died. To this number 3 millions of gentiles was added quite arbitrarily by Jakub Berman to make a total of 6 millions. These numbers are questionable. I will not go into the Polish Jews number but the 3 million of Polish gentiles is a demographic fiction.

    You need to open up you mind and accept a horrible truth that we were all lied and we are still being lied to. Most of the numbers that came form the Soviet block were distorted and never verified.

  195. utu says:
    @Anonymous

    International law up to 1945
    1907 Hague IV, which reaffirmed and updated Hague II (1899),[5] contains the following clauses:

    Article 25: The attack or bombardment, by whatever means, of towns, villages, dwellings, or buildings which are undefended is prohibited.

    Article 26: The officer in command of an attacking force must, before commencing a bombardment, except in cases of assault, do all in his power to warn the authorities.

    Article 27: In sieges and bombardments all necessary steps must be taken to spare, as far as possible, buildings dedicated to religion, art, science, or charitable purposes, historic monuments, hospitals, and places where the sick and wounded are collected, provided they are not being used at the time for military purposes.
    It is the duty of the besieged to indicate the presence of such buildings or places by distinctive and visible signs, which shall be notified to the enemy beforehand.

    At the start of World War II in 1939, following an appeal by Franklin D. Roosevelt, President of the neutral United States, the major European powers, including Britain and Germany, agreed not to bomb civilian targets outside combat zones: Britain agreeing provided that the other powers also refrained.

    Warsaw 1939 and Rotterdam 1940 were not outside the combat zone as the two cities were under a siege. It was the defenders who put the civilians of Warsaw and Rotterdam at risk not Germans according to the law.

    It was Britain in August 1940 who started to bomb civilian targets outside combat zones first. After circa two weeks Germany reciprocated and started bombing civilian targets in UK.

  196. helena says:
    @apollonian

    I disagree. I think it is possible to lobby for non-censorship, and I’m grateful to those who do, without trying to resurrect an old discredited brand, which unfortunately seems to be what is happening.

    Aggregating under labels White and Nasty are own goals.

    Try, (NW) European Ethnicity and Truth to Power and we might get somewhere.

  197. helena says:
    @utu

    Was the anti-semitism a factor? Probably

    Nope. It’s a trope.

    Germans were killed because they were German.
    Poles were killed because they were Pole
    Brits were killed because they were Brit
    Russ were killed because they were Russ

  198. @utu

    I indeed am old, my retirement gave me the opportunity to read a lot.
    I now know that mainstream history is mainly nonsense.

    This was clear yesterday on dutch tv, former prime minister Lubbers died.
    One of the things mentioned about what he did or said was a visit to Japan that never happened, because of the war crimes of the Japanese emperor.
    Now there were no Japanese war crimes, in the war crimes show in Japan, a Neurenberg type of show, all non USA judges voted for not guilty
    But they were the minority, and so the ‘criminals’ were hanged.

    What makes the assertion about the Japanese emperor’s war crimes very bad is that this emperor, risking his life, in 1945 was able to bring about the Japanese capitulation.
    How many Japanese and USA lives he saved, anybody’s guess.

    Likewise, mainstream WWII history is mainly nonsense.
    But I admit, it takes years to come to grips with the truth that victors write history, to this very day.

    Dutch policians now are going to acknowledge the Armenian genocide that never happened.

  199. @Alden

    I read that book. I didn’t know it was true or just endless WW2 fiction when I read it.

    The book is written as a series of vignettes based on interviews with, and the written memoirs of, the people involved, on all sides, in the liberation of Paris.

    These include members of the various factions of the French Resistance, and of the Free French Forces and citizens of Paris; members of the American Armed Forces; and members of the occupying German Army.

    Researchers spent nearly three years locating survivors of the Liberation of Paris, and undertook over 800 interviews of persons in France, Germany and the United States. They also had access to Allied and German action reports, war diaries, memoirs, and official records.

    Senior Allied officers who assisted the authors included Generals Dwight D Eisenhower and Omar Bradley, and Allen Dulles (of the OSS); French interviewees included Jacques Chaban-Delmas and Henri Rol-Tanguy (of the French Resistance), Mme Leclerc (widow of Jacques Leclerc) and Alain de Boissieu (son-in-law of Charles de Gaulle; and from Germany, Dietrich von Choltitz (Commandant of the Paris garrison) and Walter Warlimont (of the German High Command).

    • Replies: @Alden
  200. The myth about the Japanese emperor being a war criminal is dissected, in telling day by day, on many days hour by hour, how the emperor, with danger to his own life, succeeded in making Japan capitulate one can find in
    Robert J.C. Butow, ‘Japan’s Decision to Surrender’, Stanford, 1954.
    The book also is very interesting on the whole history of Japan since, say, 1930, and the USA role in causing Pearl Harbour.
    Alas nobody reads books any more, one gets the impression.

  201. You keep talking about debate, with no name-calling. How’s that working out for you?

  202. @utu

    Goldhagen is an idiot.
    Read the endnotes in
    Christopher R. Browning, ‘Ordinary Men, Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland’, 1992, 2001, London
    Browning makes mincemeat of Goldhagen.

    • Replies: @utu
  203. @utu

    Yes, the numbers game is ridiculous. I have seen recently NYT articles where Polish losses were put at 3M Jews, 2.5M non-Jews. A blatant attempt to put Poles at lower status than Jews in the victims sweepstakes. And then there’s the whole “Polish death camp” thing. I wonder how the Poles like their new American buddies? Bet it works out as well as the British did for them in 1939.

    • Replies: @utu
  204. helena says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    Would the West’s understanding of the Holocaust qualify as a fallacy of composition?

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  205. @apollonian

    I believe that you could be more effective if you stuck to the facts and tried, as best possible, to avoid personal criticisms.

    I believe that you can agree that wide distribution of the fact-based history, and the inherent trends that are embedded within it, in a manner that can be accepted by the majority, is the logical first step in overcoming the growing oppression.

    I can see that you have some facts on your side, but your style alienates people, and plays into the anti-social narrative likely put in place to just so inoculate the majority from the truth.

    One can see a useful array of facts in the Hoffman article that could be further enhanced with more facts, to form an argument with more potential uptake.

  206. Alden says:
    @utu

    I get my information from university libraries, not from the university texts and professors in classes decades ago.

    And wiki????? I don’t use wiki at all. It’s notoriously inaccurate and biased. Go ahead, use wiki if that’s the only thing to which you have access. I’ll keep using 2 of the great university libraries in the country, including the rare books sections.

    I was skeptical of what I was “taught” in high school and university anyway. And I never took any course in WW2 history at university university So I didn’t learn about the killings of priests then.

    Wiki, how can you cite that as a source?

    • Replies: @utu
  207. Alden says:
    @utu

    “What you were taught in schools”????

    Are you joking?

  208. utu says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Browning was competing with Goldhagen for the same tenure position.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  209. EugeneGur says:
    @Wally

    SHOW us the actual excavations, the enormous mass graves

    Come to Babi Yar near Kiev where at least 80,000 Jews were murdered in 1-3 days. The bodies were thrown into a large ditch, a ravine (“yar” means a ravine in Russian) and loosely covered with earth. The machine guns were used for efficiency. You know, a machine gun bullet can cut through several bodies if people stand close. I must tell you that your ancestors – I presume we are talking about your ancestors – have developed very efficient ways of killing a large number of people and disposing of their remains. According to witnesses, the earth moved for several days, because the executioners didn’t even bother to finish people off. Some were just wounded and survived by climbing out of the ditch at night.

    This is just one example; there are others. For example, in Donbass people, alive or dead, were thrown into the mine shafts. The mines are very deep in Donbass, 700-1000 meters, so the bodies, or what’s left of them, are still there. Altogether about 75,000. About 15,000 perished in the only concentration camp on the Soviet Union territory, in Crimea. The bodies, or alive people at times, were thrown into deep wells. BTW, there were about 40,000 Jew in Crimea before the war – almost no one survived.

    You forget, my friend, that this wasn’t that long ago. People are still alive that lived through the concentration camps, mass executions (even Germans didn’t always succeed in killing everyone!), and other “scientifically impossible” events. I am old enough to remember the time when there were many such people, and they were in the prime of their lives. No matter how much you try to whitewash this, we know what happened and we know who is responsible.

  210. Wally says:
    @Anon

    No it was not.

    The Polish Home Army of 1944 was a legit military target, damage to Warsaw in fighting them happened, no doubt.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  211. Wally says:
    @EugeneGur

    So where are the allged human remains at Babi Yar which Jews claim, and claim to know exactly whee they are?
    You can’t even keep the lies straight. You say 80,000 were shot & buried there, now the absurd narrative says that 34,000 were shot & buried there by the Einsatzgruppen.

    Prove to us that your fantasy 70,000 n the Donbass were shot. You’re merely making up nonsense and can prove none of it.
    We’re talking about an alleged ’6M Jews & 5M others’ … 11,000,000.
    There is not a single verifiable excavated enormous mass grave with contents actually SHOWN, not just claimed, (recall the claim of 900,000 buried at Treblinka, 1,250,000 at Auschwitz, or 250,000 at Sobibor, 34,000 at Babi Yar) even though Jews claim they still exist and claim to know exactly where these alleged enormous mass graves are.

    The corrupt ‘holocaust’ Industry now claims that ca. 2,000,000 Jews were shot by the Einsatzgruppen into huge pits, so, anyone, please SHOW us the actual excavations, the enormous mass graves, & remains that are claimed to exist, their locations are allegedly known.
    Is that:
    100 graves of 20,000?
    200 graves of 10,000?
    400 graves of 5,000?
    500 graves of 4,000?
    1000 graves of 2000?
    2000 graves of 1000?

    http://www.codoh.com

  212. Wally says:
    @EugeneGur

    In addition to my other responses, here you, the coup de grace:

    aerial photo of Babi Yar at exact time of alleged action:nothing happening as alleged, nada, zippo

    former Einsatzgruppen Members Reject Bizarre Claims of Mass Shootings / Babi Yar, etc. https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11396

    !! Excavation Result: No Enormous Human Remains as Alleged at Babi Yar !! … of
    course https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11314
    also see:
    ‘What Happened at Babi Yar?
    Fact vs. Myth’
    Using air photos and wartime newspapers, Ukrainian writer MICHAEL NIKIFORUK attacks a few myths about a wartime atrocity. http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/BabiYar/Nikiforuk.html
    and: ‘ Babi Yar: Critical Questions and Comments’

    http://codoh.com/library/document/920/?lang=en

    and: ‘Babi Yar ‘massacre’ debunked’ viewtopic.php?f=2&t=41

    You’re in way over your head.
    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Wally
  213. EugeneGur says:
    @Mulegino1

    Don’t you know how to reply directly to a comment?

    You are right, I do not know how to reply to comments like yours where every word is a lie and an insult to every person who has been through these “rehabilitation” camps or other horrors your ancestors unleashed. You do realize that you express the views that are Nazism pure and simple, undiluted? You are even true to your former leader list of undesirables: Jews, homosexuals, Communists.

    Could that be that the German people have learned nothing and forgotten nothing? The more I look at Germany, the more I see it that way. Sad.

    • Troll: Twodees Partain
    • Replies: @Wally
    , @jilles dykstra
  214. Wally says:
    @EugeneGur

    Name calling, the last resort of the desperate.

    If you were so sure of yourself you would debate further at:
    The ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are laughable, scientifically impossible frauds.
    see the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

    “I owe my permission to submit the Zionist plan for the final solution of the Jewish Question.”
    - ‘Father of [political] Zionism’ Theodor Herzl, letter to the Czar, November 22, 1899.

    Healthy Jews at Auschwitz ‘liberation’:http://fcit.coedu.usf.edu/holocaust/PICS31/66935a.jpg

    • Replies: @EugeneGur
  215. @utu

    Read the mentioned endnote that clearly shows that Goldhagen is an idiot.

    • Replies: @utu
  216. @EugeneGur

    The sad truth is that even today most Germans still suffer from the brainwashing that they must feel guilt for two world wars, and the holocaust.
    This is the basis for the disaster EU, and Merkel’s detroying of Germany through mass immigration.

    • Replies: @EugeneGur
  217. Wally says:
    @Wally

    And even more on the fake Babi Yar action:

    Bodies at Babi Yar, John Gibbons Reporting https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7302

    Read and see this hilarious & impossible communist propaganda publication demolished:http://oi45.tinypic.com/mh7m1d.jpg
    http://www.codoh.com

  218. @helena

    Whether the Holocaust was real or imagined is not relevant to the reason s the war started. Arguments about the holocaust are not central to why the war occurred.

    In fact one of the ways in which it used as a hammer of guilt is that the allied powers did not engage war on account of the holocaust.

    Dresden and other industrial city attacks were launched to prevent Germany prosecuting further expansion by force — war was considered the only option.

    • Replies: @helena
  219. This is mostlikely too long. Admin may shorten it or erase it altogether
    @ everbody
    What I am writing now will upset many especially the Hitler lovers. ( in German called the ” Groefaz” – [ Groester Feldherr Aller Zeiten]- my English translation(Greatest Warlord Of All Time)[ - G(W)OAT].
    But, befor the screaming starts, think! Let us look at the time of WW I. Where was he? Not at the front inhaling poison gas,for which he alledgedly was awarded the EK first class. No, he was a draft dodger, sticking it out with his brother for months in England, who was working with his Irish wife as waiters in the Mensa in London. I have a photo copy of the employment list, I think from David Irvings website. Check it out.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2066155/Hitler-spent-months-living-Liverpool-flat-later-destroyed-Luftwaffe.html

    While the fighting and dying went on at the front, he wrote a postcard to his :” I wish I could be with you, but my dentist has just pulled 18 (eightteen) teeth”!LOL. (Source: Der Spiegel, with copy) After that he was stationed at a canonier bataillion near Munich. He was recommended for the EK1 by a Capain Guthmann.
    His coup attempt in Munich in the 20s failed. 17/18 of his died in a hail of bullets while WW I distinguished General -Erich Friedrich Wilhelm Ritter von Ludendorff- (Wiki) stoically marched on. Where was the EK 1 hero? He sought refuge with the communists! This is still baffeling the Churchill biographer Ian Kershaw, and a lot of other people. The police found him 3 days later with his good friend Hanfstengel (translated Hennopstem), who was an NSDAP member of the first hour. Later he became an advisor to Pres Rooselt! LOL.
    The courts condemmed him to 5 years in prison, where he is said to have written MEIN KAMPF. I have the book since 50 years. I managed 18 pages of BS. Then I put it aside. Simple German, Jews, banks and living space in the East. Allready after 9 MONTHS he was let out! Nobody really knows why, apart from those that organised it. Interestingly a few months back a German History Prof, teaching in a “town” Aberdeen, South Africa, a town of 7.2 K inhabitants, found in the local library a much EARLIER edition of Mein Kampf! In it “he”(LOL) appearently wrote to become the Fuehrer of Germany! (source: Der Spiegel)
    Fast forward. In the Munich Hofbraeukeller, he regularly ranted on for hours on end to a full house. However, one day he cut his speeches short and left very early. That was the day when shortly after a bomb exploded planted behind the chimney where he usually stood. 8 people were killed. That lucky escape was similar to the biggest jackpot win of all time! The assessin was a Georg Elser, also named Eller. He was caught and incarcerated in so called protective custody! Stauffenberg was shot, others hung on piano wires, Rommel had to commit suicide. Mr Elser/Eller had three rooms in prison, regular barber visits, free access to the prison brothel , decent food ect.
    Check Wiki
    Excerpt:

    [MORE]

    Shortly before the war ended Elser was shot. Dead people don’t talk.
    After he had become Chancellor ( with the help of manipulated election results), Hindenburg had refused twice to sign the “paper”,he started his attack on Jews, bankers etc. In one of his speeches he declared that the Jews would be “ausgerotted”= exterminated. The meaning of this word in this context meant exactly that: exterminated. Is anyone telling me that this man -a goy-could have gotten away with this in a country where jews were still in high places, in the juris prudence, finances, science, a n d the cultural life of Germany without having to face any serious consequences? Noways!
    Let’s have a short look at his military decisions.
    Dunkirk! The war was finished at Dunkirk. The G(W)OAT gave the halt order. His Leibstandarte, Waffen-SS, his spersonal division, under Sepp Dietrich, ignored the order and pressed on. He was threatened with a court marshall if he wouldn’t obey. Whilst the evacuation of the British expeditionary forces carried on, Dietrich was sitting on his hands waiting. Genral Blumentritt said afterwards: ‘We then had to listen to a long tirade about the importance of the British empire’ etc. A country-England- that had declared war on Germany was important? That’s a joke.
    Battle of Brittain. Germany lost some 2K planes, England 1,7 K. Number of pilots killed on both sides unknown. The battle then fizzled out. Fighter ace Genral Galland asked the G(W)OAT. Why? Nothing has been decided yet. His answer: the battle was only the”camouflage” of the build up to Barbarossa. A camouflage to hide a frontline of 2900 km? Nobody could see what was going on? LOL. He wanted ‘living space in the east’? The man was actually incabable of reading a map. Russia, 17 Million sqkm. If Gerfmany ( a fly shit on the map) had won this greatest slaughter of all time, placing 1 soldier on every 3 cubic km to guard the conquered ground?
    With 50 km in front of Moscow, came another halt order. He decided the supply line is too long. Thne troops seeing the onion towers of Moscow with their bare eyes, he realised the supply line was too long? There the spear tip of the panzers sat again on their hands waiting whilst Stalin and his crew had their bags already packed.
    Stalingrad. It is an accepted fact that the sixth armee could have broken out. But they have to stay. We will not retreat.The end is known. Some 300K troops gone. Surrender April 1943.
    North Africa. He sent some 200K in support of Mussolini (an MI5 asset from WW I. Once an asset, always an asset). Rommel was called back to Germany. He had planned to drive through into the ME. If that would have happened, the ME would look different to-day .The Africa corps was left to their own devices. No food, no material replacement. The only food they got was italien tinned food with the name of AM. The Italiens called it “Arabo Morte” and the Germans “Alter Mann”. The Germans raised the white flag, when? Early 1943! 500K battle hardended troops out of action. Who lost an eye and an arm in North Africa? Count Stauffenberg. We will never know, but I am convinced he had smelled a rat.
    Kursk. The biggest tank battle in history during May and August 1943. 2.5 K German tanks against 3.5k Russion tanks. His Generals implored him to start the battle in January, the ground is frozen, now is the time.But he declined. ‘ I am waiting for panzer 5′ He delayed the battle for 5 months, giving the Russians plenty of time to build up their defences. However, when Sepp Dietrich with his W-SS troops achieved the incredible feat of braking through 7or 8 Russian defences to attack from the rear and the flank, he stopped them, took away their tanks and sent them to Italy because of a “grave situation” there. Here the Leibstandarte Waffen-SS were sitting again on their hands. Of course the battle was lost.
    Jet fighter Me 262. His order was, out of 20 produced only one should be a fighter, the rest bombers! The Luftwaffe had, however, a first class Jet bomber, the ARADO. In the short existance, 59 jet fighters shot down 750 allied bombers. It is believed that if every one would have been a fighter the war would not have been won, but unconditional surrender would have been avoided.
    The above para from the english narrator of the documentary (on CD)’ German jet fighters in the second World war’.
    Omaha beach.
    He ordered that 3 panzer divisions of the Waffen-SS, average age 19 years, highly motivated, should be stationed a 3 days drive BEHIND the frontline. These guys right at the beach and no Omaha beach.

    His so called Nero Orders. In March 1945 he gave out these orders: “Raise everything to the ground, factories, bridges. Anything that could be usefull to the enemy i.e scorched earth decree. Worse than the Morgenthau plan. This order was ignored by Albert Speer.
    And there are still people including Germans that believe he was the greatest. Yes. for me he has been the greatest a….hole in the world. Every major military decision was for the benefit of our to-days “Allied Friends”.
    I have no opinion on the Holocaust. But some Jews have.
    Gerard Menhuin. The son of the greatest violinist of the last century, Yehudi Menhuin who after the war gave pro bono classical concerts for the downtrodden, depressed German people. Gerard Menhuin has written a book. 299 pages, “Tell The Truth And Shame The Devil”. Available from Amazon or for free as a pdf on the net. He wishes that this book/pdf should be distributed as widely as possible. He called the Holo ‘ A crime against the German people’. Buy it or download it. Read it. If you can’t find it go to codoh.com.
    Bronder’s(jewish) Book “Bevor Hitler kam” (only available in German.) It’s about Who was Who in the very close circle of the Nazi hirarchy. Eichman, Rosenberg jewish etc. He dosn’t touch the Holocaust, but he suffered great heavy professional consequences. He is a high school teacher in Hannover.

    Psychology

    (Addendum to an essay by Dr. Roger G. Dommergue Polacco de Menasce, Docteur de l’universite de Paris, in a response to the TV shows “Océaniques” in FR 3 dated 7. und 14. December 1987 ,of the gentlemen André Glücksman – Georges Steiner – Michel Cazenave – Jean Faye – François Fédierm, under the title ‘Auschwitz: The silence of Heidegger or minor details’) [Roger G. Dommergue Polacco de Menasce is Jewish ( his mother is Jewish ). Famous French-Jewish family].

    My translation from German From “J’ai mal de terre” P. 360 by Dr. Roger G. Dommergue Polacco de Ménasce “There is no business like Shoa-business !” Léon A. Jick, Jewish Historian, USA
    here he is in video

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYSGCpGMhZc&itct=CB0QpDAYAiITCPbM3NKk7sQCFUkUHAod7V0AwjIHcmVsYXRlZEjy6oWmkdmJ0H8%3D&client=mv-google&gl=ZA&hl=en-GB

    The former editor in chief of the magazine DER SPIEGEL-Frietjof Meyer (of jewish extraction) and the former speaker of the German Parliament Dr Rita Suessmuth wrote in 2001 an article in the very up market magazine “OSTEUROPA” wherein they committed the ultimate”crime”:
    1. they reduced the no of victims to 500K
    2. they shifted the epicentre of all evil, the gas chambers, from Awitz Birkenau to two farmhouses of which the foundation were not found at the time. That was the place where “civilization” collapsed.

    A right-winger laid charges against the two for ‘minimizing’ the holocaust. It was thrown out of court.

    Further reading
    Prof G.C Preperata; Conjuring Hitler
    Incubation of Nazism
    excerpts off the net. I can’t get the book
    The good prof lost his tenure at an American univerity.

    A.H’s DNA

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/world-war-two/7961211/Hitler-had-Jewish-and-African-roots-DNA-tests-show.html

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/25/hitler-jewish-dna-tests-s_n_693568.html

    And and on goes the story.

    • Troll: L.K
    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  220. @RadicalCenter

    As part of the axis powers, when Japan attacked the US, the US response included Japan and her axis allies. And much to Germany’s chagrin that attack meant made Germany an enemy of the US. And part and parcel to destroying japan was defeating Germany Japan’s ally.

  221. helena says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    It was a digression I know.

    allied powers did not engage war on account of the holocaust.

    So in answer to my question; you think it would.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  222. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Mulegino1

    Since I am not a criminal, drug addict, public homosexual or a communist agitator, why should I need rehabilitation?

    Interesting…

  223. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    No it was not.

    That isn’t an argument.

    The Polish Home Army of 1944 was a legit military target, damage to Warsaw in fighting them happened, no doubt.

    Of course it was a legitimate military target. So is the PLO.

    • Replies: @Wally
  224. EugeneGur says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Germans still suffer from the brainwashing that they must feel guilt

    I don’t see that much guilt, actually. What I see is whitewashing of Nazism, denial of the crimes, and all sorts of justification including attempts to blame others (we had to; we were forced to; we were provoked; they are bad people and deserved it; etc). You yourself is a perfect example of that trend.

    Germany didn’t feel the slightest compunction about supporting neo-Nazis in Ukraine, the very same type of people, oftentimes direct descendants of those people, it supported 70 years ago and used to perform it dirty work. It Germany had any, I wouldn’t say guilt, but any sense of decency, it would’ve stayed as far away from that mess as possible.

    Whatever reason moved Merkel to flood Germany with so-called refugees, it was certainly not guilt. Stupidity, perhaps, or obeying orders from the overseas master?

  225. EugeneGur says:
    @Wally

    Name calling, the last resort of the desperate.

    I absolutely agree, and I am glad that you understand your true nature so perfectly.

    Nazism, on the other hand, is a scientific definition of a certain ideology, and your views fit perfectly into that definition. You like “scientific” debates, don’t you? You shouldn’t object to scientific definition of your own agenda, then.

    • Replies: @Wally
  226. Churchill and his top military circle … set afire the medieval cities of their German cousins, who only two generations before had comprised the royal blood within the House of the German-speaking Queen Victoria.

    The explanation to that could be found in Juri’s Lina “Architects of Deception”.
    Which happens to be in total sync with the digital (occult) profile of this barbaric
    action:
    02.14.1945 -> 0+2+1+4+1+9+4+5=26=28-2; 02+14+19+45=80=-2+82; 0214+1945=2159=820+800+77*7;

    [MORE]

    “Ash(28 /3) Wednesday(100/9)” -> 128/12 = 8*2*8/(2+8+2);
    “Dresden” -> 69/7=8+2-8/28*2;

    “Barbaric aerial bombing” -> 162/21=(82+80)/(7+7+7);
    “Purifying incineration” -> 256/21=2*8*8*2/(7+7+7);

    “Winston Churchill”=208/16=208/8*2;

    “Allied(43/6) Aschermittwoch(165/14)” -> 208/20;

  227. Rurik says:
    @EugeneGur

    It Germany had any, I wouldn’t say guilt, but any sense of decency

    blaming the German people for what the Zionist occupied government in the ZUS perpetrated in Kyiv, is exactly the kind of irrational, hysterical hatred that was responsible for the holocaust in Dresden.

    There’s a pathology there, that screeches envy and an eternal, netherworld kind of hatred.

    Here’s a clue, the German people have suffered for a blood-libel against their character because a Fiend that had taken over America’s Treasury, and then betrayed Germany at the end of WWI, and then put its boot on Germany neck for a generation, until Hitler rose out of the ashes of Germany’s prostrate submission to the Fiend, and wrested her away from the Bolshevik genocidal demon who wanted to do to Germany what it had just done to Ukraine.

    This fiend is manifested by British pedophile aristocrats and Jewish central bankers, and had taken Russia by the hair of the head and flung the best of Russia into the gulags. While it menaced the rest of the planet with its infinite hatred and evil cruelty.

    The very same infinite hatred and evil cruelty that rained down gasoline bombs on women and children and a culture that was superior to and more beautiful than anything it could accomplish.

    And so as only a fiend could conceive of, it burned people alive, with the exact same kind of netherworld hatred and primitive savagery that ISIS displayed when it too set harmless men on fire and burned them alive, all to sate an insatiable, infinite hatred within their black and monstrous souls.

    It seems being endemically inferior, like the British pedophile peerage, and the mean-spirited, greedy little Jewish banksters – is a recipe for moral abomination.

    We should all reflect on the fact that these people are still in power, and still and eternally the mediocre, hatred consumed losers that they were when they ordered the destruction of Dresden. To pretend that the Jews ordering Merkel to open Germany to invasion, are a different sort than the type who conceived of the Morgenthau Plan, would be a folly.

  228. lavoisier says: • Website

    Very profound discourse.

    Forgive my ignorance, but why are the Jews to blame for the decisions by Churchill and Truman to commit war crimes?

  229. @EugeneGur

    I wonder what your sources about Germans now are

    • Replies: @EugeneGur
  230. @EugeneGur

    If you’ve seen my previous posts, I bow to no one in my contempt for what I call Hitler-worshiping cretins.

    Bur your comment above indicates you’re only a few lengths behind them.

    • Replies: @EugeneGur
  231. Sparkon says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Prior to shifting the air war to the Blitz, Fighter Command was on the verge of being broken.

    And the destruction of housing stock is much less damaging to the war effort than the destruction of vital industries.

    So at a stroke, Churchill prevented the Luftwaffe from gaining air superiority over England and shifted their attacks to non-strategic targets.

    Yes, I think there is merit to your observations, but I’d argue that prevention of Fighter Command’s destruction was engineered by secret agent man Adolph Hitler, and not the drunken warmonger Winston Churchill.

    Once again, the Führer seemed entirely too eager to jump for the bait, and snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Already he had allowed the defeated British Expeditionary Force to escape destruction or capture at Dunkirk.

    If a prize fighter has his opponent on the ropes, wobbly on his feet, and on his last legs, yet fails to deliver a knock-out blow, and indeed goes on to lose the fight in a crushing defeat, the incredulous and suspicious fight fan might well entertain thoughts that the fight had been fixed.

    I know there are many who cannot or will not consider the premise that both WWI and WWII were planned, arranged, and orchestrated, at least in part by ensuring that the right people — or wrong people, if you choose — were in the right places as various pressures were exerted here, strings pulled there, not least of all through the mass media, but also by a host of actions undertaken by those who were under the sway of the hidden entities lusting for war, such as FDR, who had taken steps sure to enrage the ultranationalist hotheads in Japan’s military.

    While he was working on that, FDR ordered US Navy destroyers to harass German U-boats in the Atlantic, hoping to provoke a shooting incident that could be used as justification for getting into the war against Germany.

    Back in the Pacific, FDR’s “pop-up cruises” sent flotillas of Navy cruisers on maneuvers designed to further provoke the Japanese. Flying Tigers had been sent to China along with over 100 aircraft, and the entire U.S. B-17 production was being sent to the Philippines.

    Also, Japan’s rulers knew that in March 1941, Congress had granted FDR permission to send money and equipment to the Chinese under the Lend-Lease Act.

    In short, by launching the Flying Tigers, President Roosevelt declared war on the Japanese before the Japanese attacked the U.S. He gave the Japanese the legal right to bomb Pearl Harbor, and did not tell the American people or the commanders at Pearl Harbor.

    http://www.daveblackonline.com/lying_presidents.htm

    For various reasons, including a timely plane crash, the Luftwaffe did not develop an effective heavy bomber before or during WWII. By contrast, both the United States, and Britain had heavy bombers under development by the mid to late 30s. The design specification for what led to the B-17 was issued On 8 August 1934.

    For the war, about 4,000 B-17s were built, along with a similar number of B-25s, but the Americans also built over 18, 000 B-24s, and another 4,000 B-29s. RAF Bomber Command disposed of 11 different types of bombers, including 15,000 heavy bombers, almost half of which were Lancasters, and about 13,300 mediums, the vast majority of which were Wellingtons. (light bombers excluded; all numbers approx.)

    It was these kinds of numbers of operational bombers that allowed Bomber Command to undertake the famous, or should I say infamous, Thousand Bomber Raids to flatten Germany with “carpet bombing.”

    For Dresden, the RAF and the USAAF marshaled over 1,200 bombers for a series of devastating raids over several days. Some sources say that the industrial regions of Dresden lay far outside the city, and these were not hit until later, almost as an afterthought.

    I am inclined to think that the higher fatality figures may be closer to the truth because of the many, uncountable refugees who had fled there seeking safety in a city that had not been bombed. There easily could have been several hundred thousand people in the city, but of course the entire Western propaganda machine would be working overtime to ensure that the real death figure would be pushed down, way down.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    , @utu
  232. @organplayer

    Never read so much nonsense.

    But let me discuss one point:

    ” in his book, The Hitlers of Liverpool, Mike Unger claims the future Fuhrer fled to Merseyside from Vienna, to avoid national service. He says Hitler stayed in a flat in Toxteth with his married half-brother Alois from November 1912 to April 1913.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2066155/Hitler-spent-months-living-Liverpool-flat-later-destroyed-Luftwaffe.html#ixzz57JHMl2ZD

    Let us assume that Hitler was in GB for five months, around jan 1913, so what ?

    • Agree: Alden
  233. @EliteCommInc.

    Wrong, Hitler declared war on the USA, after Pearl Harbour.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  234. Wally says:
    @Anonymous

    “Argument” or not, Warsaw was not 90% destroyed. Simple as that.

    Great, we agree then that damage to Warsaw that did occur was legit.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @utu
    , @Alden
  235. @lavoisier

    Truman became president when WWII was nearly over.
    What war crimes did he commit ?
    He knew nothing when he became president.
    Churchill, on the other hand, after Casablanca, was just a puppet of FDR.

    • Replies: @Alden
  236. Wally says:
    @EugeneGur

    IOW, you have been shot down utterly so that now you dodge the damning information that I post and now your cognitive dissonance has your panties in a knot.

    This make utterly makes no sense, embarrassing really:
    “Nazism, on the other hand, is a scientific definition of a certain ideology, and your views fit perfectly into that definition. You like “scientific” debates, don’t you? You shouldn’t object to scientific definition of your own agenda, then.”

    Say what?

    Now try this:
    rooftop of crematorium no. 2 at Auschwitz / alleged ‘gas chamber’Taken January/February 1943 where there are no little ‘chimneys’ / columns for the alleged insertion of Zyklon-B / cyanide.
    The ‘chimneys’ / columns are claimed to have been ca. 2 feet high. The snow is 2-3 inches high. According to Auschwitz “expert” Robert Jan Van Pelt the ‘chimneys’ / insertion columns, which were said to protrude out from the roof, were added as an adaptation in August, 1942.
    http://www.codoh.com

  237. @Sparkon

    ” For various reasons, including a timely plane crash, the Luftwaffe did not develop an effective heavy bomber before or during WWII. ”

    The British and USA heavy bombers were ineffective in winning the war.
    Germany saw the Luftwaffe as support for the army, the Stuka’s and other aircraft were quite effective.
    Zuckerman, the RAF’s scientific adviser, is of the opinion that the British bombing of Germany damaged Britain more than Germany
    Solly Zuckermann, ‘From Apes to Warlords, an autobiography, 1904- 46’, London 1988
    It is even worse, killing large numbers of idle civilians helped the German war effort.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  238. Rurik says:
    @lavoisier

    Forgive my ignorance, but why are the Jews to blame for the decisions by Churchill and Truman to commit war crimes?

    well, Churchill deserves his own place in Hell, to be sure.

    and leaving aside the issue of the bombing of Japan, as it’s own thread-worthy subject, it was Truman after all who recognized the genocidal theft of Palestine from the Palestinians, presumably because the world had just fought an horrific war because “might should not mean right’, and then they go and hand over Palestine to the world’s most racist and Darwinian terrorists around.

    So certainly Truman deserves blame for his role in that debacle, no?

    as for why blame Jews when Gentiles wage wars..

    well on whose behalf did the US enter the first World War? On whose behalf was Germany betrayed into laying down their arms, and being subsequently starved into signing the German people into slavery?

    Or, just ask yourself on whose behalf has the ZUS and NATO have been destroying nation after nation in the Middle East?

    Does it serve the US or France to bomb Libya into the stone age? Does it serve the people of the ZUS to destroy Iraq and Syria?

    I’m an American, and I can answer that. Hell no it doesn’t serve our interests, in fact it harms us in major and dire ways. Not only in blood and treasure, but we’re losing our very souls, as the ZUS runs a torture camp, and spy’s on every American citizen, and menaces large swaths of the people of the planet with terror drones and assassins.

    And ALL of is, at the behest of our bestest little buddy ever, who perpetrated 9/11 against us to get us to slaughter and maim millions of innocent people in the Middle East for their plan of Orwellian horrors writ large. And absolute domination over everyone, and every inch of the planet.

    There is an evil that has been menacing the world’s people ever since they got control of the world’s reserve currency, [rot in Hell Woodrow Wilson] and are now able to hit some keys on their computer and create trillions of dollars (Federal Reserve Notes) out of thin air, to bribe and bully the corrupt governments of the dying (murdered) West into destroying not just other nations inconvenient to Israel, but also to destroy their own nations through unlimited migration, as well.

    And it was this Old Testament evil racist tribalism that conceived of the bombing campaign against Dresden, just as it conceived of the Morgenthau Plan.

    If we can wrest that counterfeiting machine (the Fed) from them, then we might save humanity from their next apocalyptic atrocity, but it won’t be easy.

  239. utu says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Goldhagen is not an idiot he knew exactly what he was doing and what was the purpose of his book. Obviously it was bad research but it was good propaganda to make the so-called ordinary Germans feel guilt and be more conducive to new demands form the the Holocaust industry. A similar role is played by Jan T. Gross though he was assigned to the Polish front. He produced already several books full of exaggerations and half truths. Norman Finkelstein book The Holocaust Industry was a response to Goldhagen’s campaign in Germany. In this book Finkelstein predicted that Poland would be the next target. And indeed this is unfolding in front of our eyes. Jan T. Gross books served the purpose to soften up a segment of Polish society an prepare the ground for the financial demands. Some rumors claim that international Jewish organizations and Israel will be demanding $65 billions from Poland.

  240. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    Warsaw was destroyed. Anyone with half a brain would acknowledge that. And we don’t agree that the damage done to Warsaw was “legit.” You see, unlike you, I have consistency in my views. I believe the PLO had the right to oppose Israel aggression and I believe in the right of the Poles to the same regarding Germany. However, I would not agree that Israel had the right to destroy Ramallah and Jenin any more than Germany did to destroy Warsaw.

    You have two choices. You can say that it’s ok with you that Israel destroyed Jenin and admit you’re a Zionist. Or you can say that Israel didn’t have that right and show that you’re really just a lover of Hitler.

    • Replies: @Wally
  241. utu says:
    @Wally

    Whether it was 70% or 90% it may depend on how you define and measure the destruction. There is no question that Warsaw was one of the most destroyed cities in the WWII. Apart form September 1939 destruction a largest destruction occurred during the uprising in August and September 1944 as the result of fighting but after the Home Army surrendered and the whole population was evacuated from Warsaw in Fall 1944 Germans started an organized looting operation (furnitures, paintings, musical instruments, clothing from private apartments) which was followed by demolition teams that systematically were blowing up and burning down buildings. This was one of the idiotic orders of your AH who at that point has already lost it.

    As a propagandist who goes against the main stream official narrative of WWII you should be more nuanced. You should know which fights to pick and which to avoid. Over and over again you pick wrong fights like this one about Warsaw’s destruction. This just shows that you do not have a good knowledge. You are just programmed to do knee jerk denial reactions of anything and everything from the official narrative. That’s why you fail so often and your reputation, if there is any left, is sinking deeper and deeper. Nobody is taking you too seriously. Basically you are just advertising CODOH web site. That is all. On your own you are an ignoramus and have a difficulty to make a coherent and intelligent argument. The official narrative is very effective because it contains a lot of truth. Yes there are holes in it and also some blatant lies but you know too little to know where exactly to look for the holes. Don’t there have somebody better equipped to popularize the revisionism of the WWII? Clearly, you are doing more damage to the cause.

    • Replies: @Wally
  242. Wally says:
    @Anon

    Your desperation is showing. Your “consistency” is in your Zionist nonsense, which does not stand up to scrutiny. Zionist crimes & lies are coming to and end, guaranteed.

    Warsaw was not destroyed. Highly damaged, no doubt. The crappy Polish Home Army chose to fight in Warsaw and paid the price.

    As for Hitler:

    There was Hitler with the mythological ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ and there was Hitler without the mythological ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’.

    The ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    see the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

    The “Holocau$t Industry” in court:
    ‘Please your honor, there really are remains of millions buried in huge mass graves, we know where the mass graves are, … but, but, well, umm, we can’t show the court the human remains. You must trust us, we’re Zionists.’

    • Replies: @Anon
  243. Wally says:
    @utu

    I have agreed that Warsaw was highly damaged, but it was definitely not totally destroyed as you and the easily debunked propaganda states.
    Problem is that you have no proof for your Zionist assertions. Simple as that. You get all silly & emotional while I deconstruct your claims piece by piece. BTW, still waiting for your proof of ‘gas chambers’ & ’6M’.
    ex.:
    German taskforce: only 5 of 1,500 artworks were ‘looted’

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10328

    Ingeborg Berggreen-Merkel delivers the task force’s report in Berlin.

    • Replies: @Wally
  244. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    See? You do love Hitler!

    The crappy Polish Home Army chose to fight in Warsaw and paid the price.

    Cool. You can remember that when the bad guys come for you, deal?

  245. Wally says: • Website
    @Wally

    Yes, Warsaw suffered much damage as the Polish Home Army had deployed itself into buildings, but here are just a few photos of Warsaw, not ‘totally destroyed’ at time of Polish Home Army surrender / entry of Red Army:
    Polish Home Army surrenders in Warsaw

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Anon
    , @Alden
  246. KenH says:

    Excellent article by Michael Hoffman about a monstrous atrocity and war crime committed against the German people. Dresden had absolutely no military value and Roosevelt and Churchill knew it. It was filled with refugees, mostly women, children and old men and some allied POW’s.

    The sole objective was to murder as many Germans as possible from the air and break that hapless nation’s will to resist further. WWII truly represented a reversion to barbarism in warfare and the United States should be ashamed of what they did to a nation in which they shared so much in common racially and culturally. It was fratricide on steroids.

    One would think that Christianity would have/should have restrained the bloodlust of the allies in their actions towards Germany and German civilians, but it failed.

  247. utu says:
    @Wally

    Only the last pict of Home Army is Warsaw is legit. Taken Sept/Oct 1944. The demolition of Warsaw began after the it. The 3-4 buildings in the background perhaps were demolished then.

    The other two with Red Army are from unknown locations. Red Army entered Warsaw in January 1945. You clearly see on the first picture that women are not in winter cloth. There is no snow. When Warsaw was “liberated” by the Red Army there was no population in Warsaw to welcome them. The district Praga on the eastern side of Vistula river was in the hands of Russians since summer 1944. It is possible that the pictures were taken there.

    Wally, you are useless for your cause, whatever it is. Your job needs to be outsourced to India.

  248. utu says:
    @Sparkon

    was engineered by secret agent man Adolph Hitler

    Wow! Have you ever thought this idea through?

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  249. utu says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Agree. You made very good points.

    The author’s idea that Churchill “wanted as many of his own English civilians in London to die as possible” just indicates he is unhinged or totally dishonest. Then some “Sparkon” takes it even deeper into the lunatic asylum suggesting that Hitler was an agent of whatever.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  250. utu says:
    @Alden

    So I didn’t learn about the killings of priests then.

    Do some research on these priests. Certainly not 5000 and not in Auschwitz and not in October 1939 as you wrote. Do not go around spouting nonsense even if it is in a good cause. Your half truths disinform and end up harming the good cause. Actually it is better to not have any causes outside of searching for the truth or fighting the lies.

    • Replies: @Alden
  251. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    Your first photo shows the Soviets entering Poznan, not Warsaw, in the Warthegau, not the Generalgouvernement, in February 1945. Given the demographics of that city, the civilians in the photo could very well be Germans.

    Your second picture depicts Soviet and Polish communist forces entering Praga, on the east bank of the Vistula. Any person who’s read a single book on the Warsaw Uprising knows that Praga was not destroyed because the Red Army held it during the Uprising, while also refusing to cross into the rest of Warsaw in hopes the Germans would wipe out the anti-communist Armia Krajova.

    Your third photo is Poles surrendering to Germans, not Soviets. It’s also before most of the destruction occurred, after the Germans evacuated the population.

    Otherwise, solid work, Wally!

    • LOL: utu
  252. @EliteCommInc.

    One, as an axis power, Germany’s declaration was merely acknowledging the obvious result of
    two, the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.

    Third, it simply doesn’t matter if Germany declared war or not, the attack by japan constituted an attack by the axis powers on the US and as result — a state of war existed between the US, Japan, Ital and Germany as they were the axis alliance.

    Now had there been no attack by Japan and Germany declared war on the US, that declaration of war would significant to the question.

    Fourth had Japan not attacked the US, Germany’s declaration of war would have resulted in a war against Germany, Italy and Japan as the axis powers.

    Germany’s declaration of war on Dec. 11, acknowledge facts in evidence. That the US was at war with Germany when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor on Dec 8.

    http://warfarehistorynetwork.com/daily/wwii/axis-powers-the-infamous-tripartite-pact/

    http://en.academic.ru/dic.nsf/enwiki/30962

    We can dance around the meaning of what the Tripartite Pact means. But I think WWII answered the matter. If you want to hang your hat by ignoring the realities and pinning it to Germany’s formal declaration of war on the US, that’s fine by me. It’s always reinforcing to have defenders of Germany submit information to the central issue — Germany’s aggression resulted in the decimation and tragic consequence on Dresden to stop Germany from attacking nations, such as the US, who based on your complaint was not yet at war with Germany.

    • Replies: @for-the-record
  253. EugeneGur says:
    @jilles dykstra

    You think you are the only one who can read?
    I read the German press; I observe the behavior of the German leadership; I visit Germany pretty regularly; I interact with Germans – I see the attitude.

  254. utu says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    I wonder how the Poles like their new American buddies?

    Those who rule Poland do not have a very good record. Just look at WWII. Poland did not have to get itself into such bad situation with Germany. There were better options. Czechoslovakian option was the best or even Hungarian option was better than what Poland got itself into. Or look at Warsaw Uprising 1944 decision. It was criminal to decide to fight in large city full of civilians knowing that Soviets will not help.

    Hopefully some people will sober up in Warsaw.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  255. @utu

    Explain the role of Putzi Hanfstaengel, college pal of Teddy & Franklin Roosevelt, who encouraged and financed writing and publication of Mein Kampf, brought it to FDR’s attention, encouraged Hitler post-Putsch, was the person who alerted Hitler & Goebbels that the Reichstag was burning.

    Putzi claims the “Heil Hitler” ritual was copied from Harvard football cheers. And the swastika flag closely resembles Harvard sports banners of the era.

    All coincidences, no doubt.

    There is far more that is not known, and so much of what is known that is flat out lies, about Hitler, that almost any cockamamie theory is plausible.

    It’s what happens when propagandists claim to be historians.

    • Replies: @utu
  256. L.K says:
    @EugeneGur

    Troll EugeneGur:

    “Come to Babi Yar near Kiev where at least 80,000 Jews were murdered in 1-3 days.

    pffffhawbuhahaHAHAHAHHAHA

    Thanks for the laugh, clown.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  257. Hoffman puts a microscopic focus on Dresden. Although clearly an Allied crime against all Humanity, he fails to mention that Churchill’s policy advisor was Alexander Lindemann, aka Lord Cherwell. A native Belgian-born Jew, Cherwell “the professor” was the brains behind Churchill, the clueless bulldog. Cherwell invented the official Allied war policy, which was saturation bombing, at night, using incincary bombs, of the civilian districts, and only the civilian districts, of every significant town and city throughout Germany and central Europe. Cultural institutions were specifically targeted, including schools, playgrounds, churches, graveyards (yes graveyards!), hospitals, and inner city apartment buildings. The incindiary bombs included an early form of thremite — it would burn bright with any steel in the civilian structures for three days, lighting the way for the next day’s bomding raids. The thermite burning bright from the previous days bombing would light up the target in the bombadier’s bomb sights, assisting navigation for the second and third day of saturation night bombing.

    Both Hitler and Churchill were trained at Tavistock Institute. Hitler (his conotrollers, Bohrmann and his Jewish-controlled SS) were working closely with Churchill (and his Jewish controllers, led by Lindemann, Lord Cherwill). The similarity between Hitler’s thinking, and Cherwell’s thinking is summarized here – https://www.henrymakow.com/istheilluminatiwagingwar.html

    The long history of slavery and racism in the Allied Forces, but especially the FDR-Truman American forces, is related. The Tuskeegee Airmen stationed in England were mostly African-American. They proved themselves to be among the most talented and skillful pilots in WW-II. Eisenhower needed these pilots to fly the bombers (instead of providing usual fighter support). He wanted the African Americans to drop incindary bombs on churches and graveyards. The Tuskeegee Airman refused, insisting that Lindemann’s plan for saturation bombing civilian districts, including schools, churches and graveyards was both immoral and illegal. When Truman learned of their reluctance, he along with Eisenhower were infuriated. As retailiation, they decided that the Tuskeegee Airmen should be broken up, be spread out so thin, that that never again would they organize with each other, and support each other especially on grounds of higher moral capacity.

    No other pilots objected to Lindemann-conceived Churchill-authorized plan of civilian bombing, a war crime by any measure. To spread them thin, Truman ordered the immediate “integration” of the armed forces. The Lindemann-Churchill plan was fully implemented. Civilian areas were burned down, by Allied incindiary bombing all across central Europe. While civilian targets were set ablaze, not a single industrial district or military target, such as the IG Farben factories in the hinterlands, was targetted.

    Hoffman fails to note that the bombing of Dresden, though a high moral atrocity and clearly a war crime and a personal crime, was not a singularity. Under intellectual leadership of Lindeman, with political authority by Churchill, and military authority of Eisenhower, bombing of civilian targets across Germany was the long-range Allied plan. Clearly a massive war crime. To eliminate a population, Lord Cherwell argued that the female populations of Germany had to be exterminated, burned alive, along with their cultural infrastructure. Schools, libraries, churches and graveyards were specific targets, burned to the ground.

    In his war plan, Lindemann, who Churchill called “the professor,” later Lord Cherwell, called for the “total abdication of the white race.” That’s a quote! Total racial abdication! Both Hitler and Churchill were trained at Tavistock Institute. As was Chairman Mao, who was also working with Hitler and FDR, and was part of the same larger plan, altough on another front. “White” Russian populations were distracted by Hitler, while the way was paved by Allied forces, by elimination of Japan, for Mao to establish a fascist dictatorship in China far more dangerous adn powerful than that of Hitler. Unlike Churchill and Hitler, who were trained directly at Tavistock facilities in England, Mao was indoctrinated through the Skull & Bones secret society at Yale. Skull & Bones was setup as a fifth-column of hardcore Tavistock activists (and heroin traffickers) operating in the US. CFR members are by comparison merely librarians for “the Institute.”

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Alden
    , @Alden
  258. nabiru says:
    @Carroll Price

    @Carol. The Jews are not in control anywhere.They have a Lord who control all things on this planet.
    The Jew is the necessary thing to be seen by the people of the world . The Jew has to take the blame since the Old Contract was arranged by them and their Lord . Of course the Lord is not God but a
    few thousand of highly intelligent persons .
    The fire bombing of the German people was not by the order of Churchill but was designed by Lord Turso aka Archibald Sinclear and carried out by the pyromaniac Harris.Churchill could not order anything since he was drunk most of the time.Carol if you find out who is the Lord of the Jews than you will understand what’s going on. Until than you are all chasing a black cat in a dark room blindfolded.

    • Replies: @Anon
  259. Alden says:
    @Wally

    I gather you don’t like Poles and like Hitler?

  260. utu says:
    @Molecule-X

    And what about stealing our precious bodily fluids? Also devised in Tavistock?

  261. Alden says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Truman was president when America used atom bombs on Japan. Many consider him a war criminal because of that.
    Others hate him because he got rid of a lot of FDRs communist government workers and Russian agents

  262. Alden says:
    @Wally

    Give it a rest Wally. It’s now obvious you are just pro Nazi.

    • Agree: David In TN
  263. @utu

    Agreed. There is some hope with this new law criminalizing talk of Polish role in the camps. I detest such laws in the West, but given the nature of their opponents, the Poles can’t use kid gloves.

    • Agree: utu
  264. @L.K

    Seriously. Weren’t the remains (I’ve seen 150K mentioned) supposedly washed away in a flood in the 60’s? How convenient.

  265. Alden says:
    @utu

    I already read the books in the Stanford and UCLA libraries. And I certainly don’t call reading a book “ research”, even if it’s in the rare book sections of one of the greatest libraries in America.

    You cited wikepedia, is that all you have access to, Wikipedia?

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Anon
  266. @utu

    I have to agree, Wally is just being ridiculous here. The gas chambers are a hoax, and the war was forced on the Germans for the most part, but there is absolutely no need to reflexively whitewash real German crimes that took place in the East. He is basically mimicking Team Americans, who try to shift discussion of American crimes to those of the Germans.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @EugeneGur
  267. utu says:
    @Alden

    Address your nonsensical claim of 5000/Auschwitz/October 1939.

  268. Alden says:
    @Molecule-X

    Crazier and crazier. The Tuskegee Airmen were better than competent pilots who did their job well but they were not the most skillful and talented pilots.

    They were never told to bomb graveyards. They never refused their orders. They never piloted bombers, nor were they ever bombardiers, navigators or anything else on the bombers.

    • Replies: @utu
  269. Alden says:
    @Molecule-X

    FYI Truman ordered the integration of the armed forces in 1948 3 years after the war ended. The Tuskegee Airmen were active in veterans associations and kept in touch with each other for decades.

    What’s your opinion of David Icke’s theory that the upper elites who rule the world are all closely related alien lizards in disguise as humans?

  270. Jake says:
    @Anon

    Favor for what?

    Authors all truly educated know? Homer, Aeschylus, Sophocles, Euripides, Herodotus, Thucydides, Plato, Aristotle, Plutarch, Virgil, Livy, Cicero, Augustine, Aquinas, Dante, Cervantes, Shakespeare.

    The right books taught the right way prepare the soil. Ill prepared soil does not produce much, if anything other than weeds and thorns.

    • Replies: @Anon
  271. utu says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Explain the role of Putzi Hanfstaengel

    Was it a role that he was playing? Or was he just himself: intellectually shallow, sardonic, fun to be with, German patriot, opportunist? There is not much to go with.

  272. @jilles dykstra

    \
    Post correction —-
    One, as an axis power, Germany’s declaration was merely acknowledging the obvious result of
    two, the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.

    Third, it simply doesn’t matter if Germany declared war or not, the attack by japan constituted an attack by the axis powers on the US and as result — a state of war existed between the US, Japan, Ital and Germany as they were the axis alliance.

    Now had there been no attack by Japan and Germany declared war on the US, that declaration of war would significant to the question.

    Fourth had Japan not attacked the US, Germany’s declaration of war would have resulted in a war against Germany, Italy and Japan as the axis powers.

    Germany’s declaration of war on Dec. 11, acknowledge facts in evidence. That the US was at war with Germany when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor on Dec 8.

    http://warfarehistorynetwork.com/daily/wwii/axis-powers-the-infamous-tripartite-pact/

    http://en.academic.ru/dic.nsf/enwiki/30962

    We can dance around the meaning of what the Tripartite Pact means. But I think WWII answered the matter. If you want to hang your hat by ignoring the realities and pinning it to Germany’s formal declaration of war on the US, that’s fine by me. It’s always reinforcing to have defenders of Germany submit information to the central issue — Germany’s aggression resulted in the decimation and tragic consequence on Dresden to stop Germany from attacking nations, such as the US, who based on your complaint was not yet at war with Germany.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  273. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Jake

    If you read Great Books, how come you just sound angry and robotic? Wisdom and reading don’t go hand in hand in your case. ‘Indispensable reading ..about leftist revolutions’, your words, not mine. Or at least a coherent argumentation about WASP culture. Don’t proclaim. Argue your case, if any. Christendom, hah!

  274. @helena

    No, I don’t think they would.

    I realize that is not a politically correct response. While of some concern, maybe even deep concern, there is not much evidence that the allied powers would have gone to war to free those in concentration camps, incarcerated since 1938.

    The MS St. Loius incident is painfully telling.

    • Replies: @utu
  275. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Alden

    These rehashing of WWII are a distraction from the more urgent developments in the world but let’s see, with our semi-reliable Wiki in hand:

    1) The Nazis were anti Catholic Church in general, but were more brutal in Poland, a slav nation where the church was central to its identity and resistance. Amidst fog of war/propaganda,  it’s safe to precisely say “very many” priests died all through the war: 

    “Following their 1939 invasion of West Poland, the Nazis instigated a policy of genocide against Poland’s Jewish minority and of murdering or suppressing the ethnic Polish elites: including religious leaders…

    The following summer, the A-B Aktion (Extraordinary Pacification Operation) further round up of several thousand Polish intelligentsia by the SS saw many priests shot in the General Government sector.[15] Of the brief period of military control from 1 September 1939 – 25 October 1939, Davies wrote: “according to one source, 714 mass executions were carried out, and 6,376 people, mainly Catholics, were shot. Other put the death toll in one town alone at 20,000. It was a taste of things to come.”[17]

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_persecution_of_the_Catholic_Church_in_Poland

    2) Once sent to prison, priests were mostly concentrated in a few barracks in Dachau (as per negotiations with the Church), though Auschwitz did yield at least one saint, Maximilien Kolbe:

    “Of a total of 2,720 clergy recorded as imprisoned at Dachau, the overwhelming majority, some 2,579 (or 94.88%) were Catholic. Berben noted that R. Schnabel’s 1966 investigation Die Frommen in der Holle found an alternative total of 2,771 and included the fate all the clergy listed, with 692 noted as deceased and 336 sent out on “invalid trainloads” and therefore presumed dead.[22] Members of the Jesuit order were the largest group among the incarcerated clergy at Dachau.[23] Around 400 German priests were sent to Dachau, though Polish priests made up the greatest contingent.[24] Lapomarda lists some 30 Jesuits as having died at Dachau (of a total of 43 Jesuits who died in the concentration camps).[25] Among the Jesuits to survive Dachau was Adam Kozłowiecki (who later served as a Cardinal).[23]”

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priest_Barracks_of_Dachau_Concentration_Camp

    3) Hitler apparently had a healthy respect for Jesuits who to add insult to injury, had a polish Superior General at the beginning of the war. He persecuted them accordingly:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesuits_and_Nazi_Germany

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_in_the_Jesuit_monastery_on_Rakowiecka_Street_in_Warsaw_(1944)

    It would be interesting to see  the Church’s records of killed religious, but a brief appeal to St. Google yielded little.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Alden
  276. Wally says: • Website
    @utu

    Perhaps were demolished? Laughable
    You don’t know what you’re talking about. Typical Zionist. You’ve been caught lying. LOL.

    “The other two with Red Army are from unknown locations.”
    Hilariously wrong.
    The Red Army photos are of Warsaw from and according to pro-Polish sources. Oops.
    ex.:caption: Soviet army greeted as it liberates Warsaw in 1945.
    Source: Sputnik, April 2, 2016

    I win.
    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @utu
  277. Sparkon says:
    @utu

    I know that since this is from Hitler’s Wikipedia article, it’s all entirely false

    After World War I, Hitler returned to Munich. Without formal education or career prospects, he remained in the army. In July 1919 he was appointed Verbindungsmann (intelligence agent) of an Aufklärungskommando (reconnaissance unit) of the Reichswehr, assigned to influence other soldiers and to infiltrate the German Workers’ Party (DAP)

    And anyway intelligence agent is nothing at all like a secret agent man, is it?

    So that is pretty slick where the army can assign one of its veteran privates duties as an secret intelligence agent to infiltrate a political party, spread a little jovial cheer with beer and sausages, complete an amazing transformation into a mesmerizing demagogue who could transfix and enchant all Germany, by using that party, the NSDAP¹ as a platform to rise to be the nation’s Führer, lead it to war on two fronts, and its ultimate devastation.

    Pretty good work for a guy who wasn’t even German.

    ¹ These are the NAZIs you’re looking for.

  278. Wally says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    No “whitewash”, just the facts, and sorry, but you cannot prove me wrong.

    Warsaw was not completey destroyed as falsely claimed and no one can show otherwise. Simple as that.

    BTW, the Red Army photos are of Warsaw from and according to pro-Polish sources. Oops.
    ex.:

    caption: Soviet army greeted as it liberates Warsaw in 1945.
    Source: Sputnik, April 2, 2016

    http://www.codoh.com

  279. utu says:
    @Wally

    Already two people pointed out to you that this picture can’t be from January 1945 Warsaw. Look they are all in summer clothes. It is possible that it is from Praga summer 1944 or some other city. And you go by the label given by Sputnik. Apparently Sputnik got some body from the same temp agency from which CODOH got you. So, you just trust a label and not the picture content.

    Furthermore you must be stupidly young by announcing “I win.” You stupid fucker, it is not about winning but about truth, about being thorough, about being conscientious, about being objective. This concepts apparently are foreign to you. Yes, you are here to win. You stupid fuck.

    I had it with you, I am starting to petition Ron Unz to ban you form this site because you clearly compromise WWII revisionists. You are either an idiot or doing it on purpose. If Ron Unz is really serious about having here a revisionist it should not be you because you are disingenuous, insincere,dishonest, probably very stupid and you harm the cause of true revisionism

    • Replies: @The King is A Fink
  280. spencer says:
    @apollonian

    I read apollonian’s extensive multi-post comment, and honestly have to say I cannot understand a word of it. What’s the point? Sounds like he’s just mad that Hoffman didn’t praise Hitler, but stuck to the subject of his piece and simply presented the facts on Dresden as he sees them.

    Hoffman is a bit of an erudite and scholarly writer. But I’ve been reading his stuff for 20 years now, and find it to be some of the most educational and eye-opening material I’ve ever read. Cannot fathom applonian’s repeated charges of Hoffman being a “Pelagian heretic.” I guess labeling other people with exotic labels, without providing any examples or proofs that the label befits the person, is the new form of criticism.

  281. utu says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    to free those in concentration camps, incarcerated since 1938

    Prior to WWII (September 1, 1939) Germany (+Austria) had relatively low incarceration rate that included concentration camps.

    Prior to Kristallnacht (November 1938) no Jew was imprisoned because of him being Jewish. There were Jews in prisons and concentration camps like Dachau because of their politics (usually communism) or as criminals.

    The incarceration rate in Germany prior to WWII was 3.5 time lower than incarceration in the US in 2017.

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/russia-nazi-myths/#comment-1975420
    Germany 1939: 100, 000 Prisons, 25,000 KL

    USA 2017: 1,330,000 State Prisons, 630,000 Local Jails, 197,000 Fed Prisons, 34,000 Youth Facilities

    Population of Germany 1939: 66 millions
    Population USA 2017: 325 milions

    Since as always Americans use blacks as a copout for high incarceration rate I did take Black incarceration into the account.

    African Americans constitute about 40% of prison populations.

    So when you take these numbers you will find that Germany’s incarceration rate in 1939 was about 2 times lower than the US incarceration in 2017 even when African Americans are excluded.

    So you are correct. There was no reason to go to war to liberate prisoners of Germany.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  282. utu says:
    @Alden

    And I think they never were stationed in England. They flew from North African and later from Italy.

    I am glad, Alden, that you react to nonsense somebody here is spreading. Now you know how I was feeling when you wrote 5000/Auschwitz/October 1939 nonsense.

  283. @EliteCommInc.

    Ignorance, or not willing to know, again.

    There was hardly any cooperation between Germany and Japan, as can be seen that there never was war between Russia and Japan, until Russia declared war, in 1945, if I remember correctly.

    From early 1940 on FDR waged war against Germany, the USA fleet in the Atlantic.
    But FDR had a big problem, in order to win the 1940 elections he had promised the USA people ‘not to send boys overseas, unless the USA was attacked’.
    FDR engineered the Japanese attack by sabotaging the negotiations with Japan, especially his boycott of oil and iron deliveries Japan could not sustain.
    When Japan attacked it had oil for just three months.

    FDR knew the precise hour Pearl Harbour would be attacked.
    Even worse, it was he who ordered the fleet to be in the ‘mouse trap’ Pearl Harbour.
    The Pacific fleet commander had refused to do this, but, he said to FDR, ‘you can fire me’.
    This FDR did, he jumped 50 promotion places, and nominated Kimmel, who was willing.

    But the essential three aircraft carriers ‘happened’ to be on excercise when the attack took place.

    What was destroyed was in fact scrap iron, the era of battleships was over, as the sinking by the Japanese of the GB battleships Repulse and Prince of Wales had demonstrated.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
  284. @EliteCommInc.

    We can dance around the meaning of what the Tripartite Pact means. But I think WWII answered the matter. If you want to hang your hat by ignoring the realities and pinning it to Germany’s formal declaration of war on the US, that’s fine by me.

    The reality of course is that the Tripartite Pact was a purely defensive pact. Germany had no obligation, moral or legal, to declare war on the US in “solidarity” with Japan, just as Japan had resolutely remained neutral when Germany attacked the USSR in June 1941 (and remained so throughout the war, at great cost to Germany).

    De facto there might have been a shooting war on the Atlantic between the US and Germany prior to Pearl Harbor. But the fact is that had Germany not declared war on the US immediately thereafter, it would have been very difficult for FDR to convince the country to focus its efforts on “neutral” Germany. The national focus would have been on defeating the “infamous” Japs, and the war in Europe would have assumed secondary importance.

    Hitler’s declaring war on the US was an immense blunder, and marked the turning point of the war. A good discussion of FDR’s subterfuges for inducing Hitler to declare war on the US is presented in the first few chapters of Thomas Fleming’s The New Dealers’ War.

  285. Wideawake says:

    Very interesting! Some years ago I worked extensively in a house in Hampstead I now know
    belonged to an Ashkenazi Jew which was adorned with churchills letters and numerous paraphernalia
    regarding this Rothschild gofer!
    The more I awaken the more I see the lies that are constantly poured down on the rest of humanity
    by these entities who are definitely not human and my poor grandfathers who fought in the war would
    be left speechless when they see what has happened to these islands.

  286. @for-the-record

    Yes. Germany was only obliged to come to Japan’s aid in the event Japan was attacked, not if they they initiated formal hostilities. It does not matter that the US provoked Japan into attacking (and was trying to get Germany to do the same). Hitler’s decision to declare war on the US remains baffling to me.

  287. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @nabiru

    Uuf! That I even bother. Wonder why this particular line of trolling on the thread? The Apollo rocket, the molecule the wide and awake and this one, really.

    Wally’s needed for when someone needs to close down the site, and tarr all who ever were ‘friends’ with him.

  288. @David In TN

    So you identify yourself as one of the Hitler-worshiping cretins?

    Read my comment. Get someone to explain it to ya in simple terms.

    BTW: Hitler hated commies too. Does that make you a Hitler worshipper?

  289. @MBlanc46

    Don’t start a war and your cities probably won’t be bombed.

    Now that’s hilarious.

  290. @Wally

    “In the case of WWII, Germany was the aggressor and her aggression was met with aggression. And contrary to the author’s press, there is a good deal of debate about the ethical use of total war.”

    Incredibly wrong, uninformed.

    Wally, thanks for responding, correctly to that rubbish. I’ve learned to write off such propaganda regurgitating trolls who make such harebrained assertions. It’s apparent that trying to reason with something like that is worse than a waste of time.

  291. @for-the-record

    I don’t think there is much debate that Germany was caught off guard by Japan’s attack. But the declaration was but a formality, given the contents of the Tripartite pact. The declarations of war were but forgone conclusions and admission of the realities, Germany was at war with the US. Which as indicated in the initial German response was not something they intended at that time.

    “ARTICLE 3. Japan, Germany, and Italy agree to cooperate in their efforts on aforesaid lines. They further undertake to assist one another with all political, economic and military means if one of the Contracting Powers is attacked by a Power at present not involved in the European War or in the Japanese-Chinese conflict.”

    Clearly the US was going to respond militarily to Pearl Harbor, which meant attacking japan, which in effect meant attacking all three as until that time the US was not involved in the current European or Asian conflict. By contract, Germany would aide japan in her defense against the US —

    Pearl Harbor initiated a war against Germany as the war against Japan was a war on the Axis powers. It’s akin to saying that the Us was not war with the Georgia until Congress Declared War. No. The US was at war with Georgia the minute South Carolina fired on Fort Sumter.

    If Japan had not attacked Pearl Harbor, I would certainly concede the issue, of course. But given the agreement, war with Germany was inevitable. In one my cites it details the German response to hearing the news about Japan’s attack — they understood immediately what that attack meant – declaration or no declaration. Germany just said it first.

    .

    Germany’s declaration just got the US off the hook of acknowledging the obvious as Germany had been sinking US shipping before 1940, as I recall.

  292. Sparkon says:
    @jilles dykstra

    The British and USA heavy bombers were ineffective in winning the war.
    Germany saw the Luftwaffe as support for the army, the Stuka’s and other aircraft were quite effective.

    All the Stukas in the Luftwaffe couldn’t stop the Red Army.

    One of the enduring myths about WWII is that attack aircraft were effective anti-armor weapons, but a close look at the actual statistics tells a different story. According to work done by analyst Nigel Askey, ground attack aircraft were responsible for only about 5% of enemy armor destroyed. For example:

    Considering the Germans lost around 1 500 tanks, tank destroyers and assault guns in the Normandy campaign, less than 7% were lost directly to air attack. The greatest contributor to the great myth regarding the ability of WWII aircraft to kill tanks was, and still is, directly the result of the pilot’s massively exaggerated kill claims.
    [...]
    In fact total Soviet tank losses in operation Citadel amounted to 1 614 tanks totally destroyed, the vast majority to German tanks and assault guns. Further detailed research has shown air power only accounted for 2-5% of Soviet tanks destroyed in the battle of Kursk.
    [...]
    In addition it is difficult to find any first hand accounts by German Panzer crews on the Eastern Front describing anything more than the occasional loss to direct air attack. The vast majority, around 95%, of tank losses are due to enemy AT guns, tanks, mines, artillery, and infantry assault, or simply abandoned as operational losses. Total German fully tracked AFV losses on the East Front from 1941 to 1945 amounted to approximately 32 800 AFVs. At most 7% were destroyed by direct air attack, which amounts to approximately 2 300 German fully tracked AFV lost to direct air attack, a portion of which would be lost to other aircraft types such as the Petlyakov Pe-2. From 22nd June 1941 to war’s end, 23 600 Il-2 and Il-10 ground attack aircraft were irrecoverably lost. Whatever these aircraft were doing to pay such a high price it wasn’t destroying German tanks. If that was there [sic] primary target, then over 10 Il-2s and Il-10s were irrecoverably lost for every German fully tracked AFV that was completely destroyed by direct air attack on the East Front during WWII

    Combat Aircraft Versus Armour in WWII

    In WWII, the winning side had vast air armadas of heavy bombers, while the losing side had none.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  293. @Anonymous

    . Even killing civilians wasn’t “illegal” if it could be shown they were assisting the enemy in some way.

    Given that a lot of the Jews that were supposedly killed in “the” holocaust because they were commies and aiding and abetting the enemy, then yer OK with “the” (supposed) holocaust?

    Now, given your argument above, tell us your stance regarding the Holodomor (the death of 7-10 million Ukrainians at the hands of Stalin’s goons).

  294. @Alden

    Ever heard of university libraries? There is a lot of information out there you won’t find in pro Nazi websites.

    I think you meant “disinformation.”

    There are few creatures more despicable or laughable than some punk with a piece of parchment who thinks that it means (s)he knows something.

    BTW, one doesn’t need university schooling to understand the principle of questioning everything, especially the usual propaganda.

    • Replies: @EugeneGur
  295. @EugeneGur

    Poor nice peaceful Nazi were forced to deal with those pesky Reds that resisted them

    You got it!

    If it were not for the Reds’ decades-long and often brutal agitation to control the world, (world revolution and all that bunkum), there never would have been a Nazi, or any other, reaction to their provocations.

  296. @Wally

    I’ve seen the photos. Talked to many.
    It was like I said.
    Damage, yes. Warsaw “destroyed”? Laughable.

    Then here is a video that you will no doubt find laughable (“City Of Ruins; Destroyed Warsaw-Poland In 1945″)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vx3aGiurRbQ

    I wait for your commentary telling us that:

    1. pictures are fake (colour didn’t exist in 1945)

    2. some buildings are still standing, only 85% of buildings were destroyed

  297. @Sherman

    Being f*cked and dominated by Jews (likely a male Jew) appears to be some erotic fantasy of yours!

    There you go, projecting again.

    Now go wash yer hands.

  298. @utu

    The Jews as citizens of Poland or Lithuania betrayed their countries and did great harm to their non-Jewish citizens. There was not much sympathy for Jews…

    That’s a common theme for a lot of Eastern Europe, including, but not limited to those you mentioned plus Rumania, Hungary, and several others as well.

  299. EugeneGur says:
    @David In TN

    I’ll have to learn to live with you disapprobation, then.

  300. @Supreme Gentleman

    I’m reminded of an observation a Wehrmacht infantryman made in his diary during Barbarossa: “We came as liberators—of their foodstuffs, of their coats, of their boots…”

    How did a commie get into the Wehrmacht?

    an observation a Wehrmacht infantryman

    Sounds pretty vague to me… could it be another fake (aka BS) “quote?

  301. EugeneGur says:
    @jacques sheete

    one doesn’t need university schooling to understand the principle of questioning everything, especially the usual propaganda.

    Of course not. Ever heard of the saying: “One fool can ask more questions than ten sages would know how to answer”?

    But in addition to questioning all, you also need some answers, don’t you, otherwise what’s the point of asking questions? And here education certainly helps, which at least makes you aware of available information and methods of evaluating that information.

    For example, not to labels something “disinformation” before you even know what this is about. Also, you’d know that ad hominem arguments are considered logical fallacy. And so on – there is a lot to be learned, my friend.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  302. @utu

    A voice of reason in the wilderness. Thanks for your measured approach. I made a few posts earlier about a close relative who was killed in the Warsaw airlift. Apparently this is also a hoax.

    Well, I have visited Poland a number of times. I have visited Warsaw where the drops were made, the memorials where some bombers crashed. I have visited southern Poland where my uncle and hundreds of other aircrew are buried. I have visited the small rural school built next to the field where my uncle and his comrades lay unburied for a week while the Germans scoured the area for the weapons that fell from the bomber. I have spoken to a man who was a child when the bomber crashed, who recounted the aerial battle above the village. I spent time with a local historian who has interviewed a number of locals for a book he has written.

    These are facts. Not opinions, not internet bullshit. I can upload some photos. Pictures of medals. Images of gravestones. The crash site. But what’s the point? No amount of proof will ever be enough to some people. On the whole, I have found people on this site to be friendly, intellectual and open-minded spirits. However, you can’t argue the truth with a man who has stood at the foot of a grave of a loved one and tell him it didn’t happen.

    • Replies: @utu
  303. @Sparkon

    Indeed the winning side had many bombers, they accomplished nothing, just killed civilians and prolonged the war.
    Zuckerman warned again and again that they were used thee wrong way, they should have destroyed communications, railway centres and canal locks.

    As to the Stuka, the model fitted with two anti tank cannon was feared by the Russians.
    It could not dive, had to be protected by two fighters each.
    The west did not have such an aircraft.
    The Warthog resembles the Stuka with anti tank cannon, the most effective plane in Iraq.
    Normandy, at the time the Luftwaffe was finished, western air supremacy.

    As to the efficiency of the Stuka as a dive bomber, read
    A. Goutard, ‘1940 La Guerre des Occasions Perdues’, Paris 1956
    The Stuka’s frightened French artillery into doing nothing near Sedan, where the French panicked.

    How the Germans could have stopped the numerical superiority of the Red Army, supported by USA industrial production, please explain.
    And USSR tank production was massive.
    Therefore Hitler wanted the first operational hydrogen bomb to be dropped on the Ural electricity plants.
    Todt already shortly after Pearl Harbour warned Hitler that Germany could no longer win.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  304. @Beefcake the Mighty

    It baffled me for a long time too.
    Hitler wanted to spare the German people into another country declaring war on Germany.
    Militarily of course it meant nothing.

  305. @EliteCommInc.

    ” Germany had been sinking US shipping before 1940, as I recall. ”

    The word shipping is not very clear, if you mean USA ships in convoys to GB, I suppose so.
    German captains were strictly forbidden to fire on USA warships.

  306. @lavoisier

    Forgive my ignorance, but why are the Jews to blame for the decisions by Churchill and Truman to commit war crimes?

    Because they both should have known how some of them operate, yet they bent over and took it in the shorts from them anyway.

    Had ten minutes conversation with Henry Morgenthau…

    He’d no business, whatever to call me. The Jews have no sense of proportion nor do they have any judgement on world affairs.

    Henry brought a thousand Jews to New York on a supposedly temporary basis and they stayed. When the country went backward-and Republican in the election of 1946, this incident loomed large on the D[isplaced] P[ersons] program.

    The Jews, I find are very, very selfish. They care not how many Estonians, Latvians, Finns, Poles, Yugoslavs or Greeks get murdered or mistreated as D[isplaced] P[ersons] as long as the Jews get special treatment. Yet when they have power, physical, financial or political neither Hitler nor Stalin has anything on them for cruelty or mistreatment to the under dog. Put an underdog on top and it makes no difference whether his name is Russian, Jewish, Negro, Management, Labor, Mormon, Baptist he goes haywire. I’ve found very, very few who remember their past condition when prosperity comes.

    - Harry S. Truman, Diary, Monday July 21, 1947

    https://trumanlibrary.org/diary/page21.htm

    https://trumanlibrary.org/diary/page21.htm

    Also, you forgot to mention FDR and his Red infested administration. For kicks, look up the “Swope Plan.”

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  307. @for-the-record

    ” De facto there might have been a shooting war on the Atlantic between the US and Germany prior to Pearl Harbor. ”

    In fact there was.
    USA navy escorting convoys far into the Atlantic.
    There was little shooting, shooting at submarines is difficult, and Hitler had forbidden strictly to get into combat with USA navy vessels.
    Yet there were one or two incidents.

  308. @EugeneGur

    But in addition to questioning all, you also need some answers, don’t you, otherwise what’s the point of asking questions?

    Not necessarily. Sometimes there are no perceivable or understandable answers. And who sez there has to be a point involved?

    BTW, you answered that yourself… “Ever heard of the saying: ‘One fool can ask more questions than ten sages would know how to answer’?”

    And here education certainly helps…

    You need to educate yourself on the differences between schooling and education, since you obviously are not even aware that there are distinctions between the two.

    Indeed, there is a lot to be learned, my friend, and more often than not schools represent impediments to learning. Severe impediments, in fact. If you need examples, just read the comments here that are based on propaganda.

  309. Sparkon says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Indeed the winning side had many bombers, they accomplished nothing, just killed civilians and prolonged the war.

    Unfortunately, you are still struggling to grasp this key concept. What you are describing is exactly what was desired by the architects of the war.

    Far from accomplishing nothing, as you so humanely and graciously put it, the destruction rained from the sky night and day by Allied bomber fleets killed millions of innocent Germans – elderly, women, children, babies – but to you these poor souls are just “nothing.”

    And all the smashed German cities with their factories and home sweet homes are just more “nothing” in your kind and charitable estimation.

    I guess your humanity is just a bookmark in some dusty, forgotten volume. You seem too fixed on passages in books, and unable — or unwilling — to see the big picture.

    How the Germans could have stopped the numerical superiority of the Red Army, supported by USA industrial production, please explain.
    And USSR tank production was massive.

    How? With fleets of heavy bombers, that’s how!

    Launching Barbarossa was a huge mistake, because the Wehrmact had neither adequate weapons nor sufficient manpower to defeat the Soviet Union and Red Army in any prolonged conflict. That is why some German generals wanted an all-out strike on Moscow.

    The Germans knew that the Soviets had been relocating industry and setting up new industrial zones beyond the Ural mountains already since the 1920s, and that is why Gen. Walther Wever was spearheading development of the so-called Ural bomber, but after he died in a plane crash in 1935, development of tactical aircraft, and dive bombing gained ascendancy in the Luftwaffe.

    All those frightened Frenchmen notwithstanding, Askey’s analysis shows that attack aircraft were not effective anti-armor weapons.

    Hard numbers trump opinion.

  310. @jacques sheete

    Spot-on observations by Truman. It needs to be stressed repeatedly: collective Jewish behavior plays a big role in hostility towards Jews.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  311. @EliteCommInc.

    I am not sure what point you are trying to make. You quote the relevant passage from the pact between Germany and Japan: assistance was compelled only in the event of an attack BY an outside party, not ON such a party.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  312. Wally says:
    @Anon

    [You regularly spam even completely unrelated articles with totally repetitive comments, which usually contribute almost nothing to the discussion. You have already left many dozens of comments on this one thread, so if you want your future comments published, either here or elsewhere, start providing much more thoughtful and original ones. Otherwise, perhaps you would be happily at some other website.]

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Anon
  313. Mulegino1 says:

    The judgments of an objective and unbiased history, centuries hence, will not be kind to the Allies.

    The scope of the Allied atrocities dwarfs, by orders of magnitude, anything realistically imputed to the Third Reich.

    The “6 million” is an absurd, nonsensical, Soviet-Zionist legend with no basis in facts. Probably no more than a few hundred thousand Jews died in Europe during the Second World War- of all causes, including natural mortality.

    It is stipulated that the Wehrmacht and the SS conducted anti-partisan reprisal shootings and the taking of hostages in response to terrorist attacks upon military and police units. Such actions often involved the execution of minors (who were themselves oftentimes members of the partisans and the underground.) However, the execution of the extreme elderly, small children and toddlers appear to be free inventions of Allied and Soviet atrocity propagandists.

    It was the British who began the murderous area bombing of German cities with the express intent of targeting the more densely populated working class areas of German cities, thereby increasing the casualty rates exponentially. This was not done for any strategic or tactical objective, but merely to destroy civilian morale.

    The Allies are known to have used mass rape as a weapon of revenge against the Axis powers, and this was not limited to the Soviets against the German civilian population. We know that the “Free French” Moroccan forces under General Juin were permitted and perhaps even encouraged, to commit mass rape on the women in the villages surrounding Monte Cassino during the Italian Campaign. This is a matter of public record.

    We know that the Soviets did not sign or abide by the Geneva Conventions with regards to the treatment of prisoners of war, and that the survival rate of German p.o.w.’s in Soviet captivity was very low, as compared to the survival rate of American, British, Polish, French p.o.w.’s in German captivity.
    Of course, the Germans are blamed for the attrition of Soviet p.o.w.’s (which was admittedly awful) but the Soviets were not held accountable for their treatment of Axis p.o.w.’s. Reciprocity was not adhered to by as a principle by the Allies.

    The Allies (in this case, the American Army Air Force) continued the deliberate mass murder of civilians in prosecuting the war against Japan. This included arguably the most murderous aerial bombardment in history- the Tokyo incendiary raid- and the two absolutely gratuitous atomic attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. To compare the Warsaw and Rotterdam siege bombings to these- arguably the greatest mass murders in human history- is the height of absurdity.

    I could go on- Eisenhower’s Rhine Meadows starvation camps for “disarmed enemy personnel”, the sinking of the refugee ships Goya, Cape Arcona, Wilhelm Gustloff, etc. The Second World War is the most lied about and distorted event in human history.

    • Agree: jacques sheete
    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    , @Avery
  314. @utu

    That’s really interesting. But I think the comment was directed to a conversation about the causes for the war.

    And it is my understanding that the question was to get my position on whether the holocaust real or imagined would have been the cause for war. I don’t think there is any evidence to support that incarceration regardless of when it started would have been enough for the France, great Britain or other associated states to invade.

    Sovereignty was very serious business.

  315. @Beefcake the Mighty

    I am saying a state of war existed between the US and the axis powers. That war commenced when Japan attacked the US.

    Clearly in all of the locations of Dec 7 attacked by Japan, the US attempted a response. Those responses constituted acts of war and the noted article kicked in.

    The US the outside party was in — upon said attacks.

  316. @EliteCommInc.

    The declarations of war were but forgone conclusions and admission of the realities, Germany was at war with the US.

    You are again completely overlooking the enormous psychological “gift” presented by Hitler to FDR. Also the fact that the Tripartite Pact (September 1940) to which you attach such great importance did not prevent the Japanese from signing a Neutrality Pact with the Soviet Union 7 months later (April 1941).

    In response to the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor (and the Philippines), Hitler had 4 basic options:

    1. continue the status quo, i.e., avoiding a precipitous incident with the USA, and letting the USA take the first step.

    2. indicate his willingness to sign a Neutrality Pact with the USA (analogous to what his “partner” Japanese had done with the Soviet Union 8 months earlier).

    3. negotiate a quid pro quo with the Japanese, whereby Germany would declare war on the USA in return for Japan declaring war on the Soviet Union.

    4. unilaterally declare war on the USA

    If he had adopted options 1 or 2, it is unlikely that FDR could have gotten a declaration of war against Germany — the patriotic focus would have been on fighting the Japanese, and a war against Germany would have been strongly objected to by a large segment of the population.

    Option 3 would have significantly complicated the situation of the Soviet Union, and eased the pressure on the Germans.

    Option 4 was a total unmitigated disaster, at least as far as the Third Reich was concerned. Hitler essentially doomed his Third Reich (or perhaps simply advanced the inevitable doom) by an action of solidarity in favor of the Japanese for which he received absolutely nothing in return. The Japanese, on the other hand, were able to avoid facing the brunt of US military power until 1944/45.

  317. @for-the-record

    I think you should read my comments. I made no such omission.

  318. It was Hitler to introduce the first the total war in Europe, shooting civilians, bombing civilian trains, refugees columns and hospitals. The author invokes many times Rotterdam and Guernica. Strangely enough he never mentions the two prolonged and cruel German bombings of Warsaw, in September 1939 and in Aug.-Oct.1944, neither he mentions the almost total razing to the ground of this city after the capitulation of the Warsaw Uprising in Oct.1944, which was the direct reason of Churchill’s deadly bombing of Dresden. The news of which was for the survived Varsovians the reason for rejoicing.

  319. Wally says: • Website
    @StopBolshevikLies

    But as you can see here, your claims have not been proven. Quite the opposite.
    You are just reciting what is Zionist PC mandated.

    Warsaw was a legit military target, there was, after all, the Polish Army & then The Polish Home Army, both fighting the Germans, it was called WWII.

    Here are some links for you. Debate if you think you have what it takes.

    ‘Responsibility for WW2′ https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7544

    Who started bombing civilians first:Germany or Great Britain https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=8172

    ‘THE JUSTFICATION OF THE BOMBING OF DRESDEN?’ https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=921

    Operation Barbarossa Was A Preventive Attack https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7999

    • Replies: @Alden
  320. EugeneGur says:

    It was the British who began the murderous area bombing of German cities

    This is a very comfortable – for you – point of view you express here, my friend, only it has nothing to do with the reality. Would you like to recall that Germany started the war with the Soviet Union by bombing our sleeping cities: Kiev, Minsk, Sevastopol, many others? They were full of civilians and were no more military targets – and no less – than Dresden or Cologne. The Luftwaffe had no compaction about bombing trains with refugees or simply roads packed with civilians fleeing the advancing German troops.
    Although I cannot in good conscience support a deliberate targeting of civilians and destruction of cities as the Allies had done, but I can’t help recalling that your ancestors had no problem killing civilians or anybody else as long as the war was going their way and it wasn’t their head on the shopping block. So, if I were you I’d moderate your indignation a bit.

    Of course, the Germans are blamed for the attrition of Soviet p.o.w.’s (which was admittedly awful) but the Soviets were not held accountable for their treatment of Axis p.o.w.’s. Reciprocity was not adhered to by as a principle by the Allies.

    The German POWs in the Soviet Union were treated decently, a lot more decently than they deserved. They lived in the same conditions our own people lived in. If you POWs had received reciprocal treatment to ours, almost no one would’ve survived.

    The 6th Army of Paulus at Stalingrad had Soviet POWs. When the Germans were surrounded and started running low on food, they stopped feeding the POWs altogether. By the time the Russian Army got to them , almost all were dead from starvation and cold. Do you want your POWs treated “reciprocally” when the Soviet Union was short on food after the war?

  321. @for-the-record

    No. Germany was clearly irritated because they knew the implications. In fact, there is a discussion that the matter was nonbinding because Japan had not informed them in advance.

    Your list is a series of suggestions, but in the end — Germany understood that the US was now at war with Germany. I fully agree that Germany wanted to avoid that circumstance and for good reason. But Germany just accepted reality and declared war. They were not happy about it. Certainly Japan’s attack forced a hand that were unprepared to prosecute, but there it was.

    Think of Italy’s hand forced by Germany. Same circumstance. Italy was furious that Germany forced war when they weren’t prepared. As Italy had informed Germany, they would not prepared for war until five years out.

    But as a signatory to the agreement with Germany — Germany’s war became Italy’s.

  322. @Sparkon

    Interesting discussion. Your comments notwithstanding about the overall impact of close support aircraft, the autobiography of Hans-Ulrich-Rudel paints a different picture. If the book is to be believed, the Stuka made a superb tank-killing machine in the hands of a skilled pilot.

    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1512790.Stuka_Pilot

  323. utu says:
    @StopBolshevikLies

    which was the direct reason of Churchill’s deadly bombing of Dresden

    You are confabulating. Warsaw never entered the equation in making the decision what, when and how to bomb in Germany.

    Bombing of Warsaw 1939, Rotterdam 1940 and Warsaw 1944 during the uprising were not war crimes according to Hague convention (see my comment #200) but bombing of Dresden 1944 as many other German cities was a war crime according to this convention.

  324. utu says:
    @Wally

    To the blog moderator and administrator:

    Please consider what I wrote in comment #288 concerning Wally:

    I had it with you, I am starting to petition Ron Unz to ban you form this site because you clearly compromise WWII revisionists. You are either an idiot or doing it on purpose. If Ron Unz is really serious about having here a revisionist it should not be you because you are disingenuous, insincere,dishonest, probably very stupid and you harm the cause of true revisionism

    • Replies: @L.K
  325. utu says:
    @EugeneGur

    It was the British who began the murderous area bombing of German cities

    I think there is no question about it. The WWII began in September 1939 when Germany attacked Poland on Sept. 1 and USSR attacked Poland on Sept. 17. When Germany attacked its ally USSR on June 22, 1941 German cities have been already being bombed by RAF since late August 1940. The rules prohibiting bombing the undefended civilian targets (see Hague convention in comment #200) were broken then by the British.

    Defended cities during a siege according to the Hague convention can be shelled and bombed. This certainly was not the case of Sevastopol and probably not in the case of Minsk and Kiev. Whether USSR recognized the convention that was signed by Russia before Bolsheviks took over is irrelevant. The decision to defend Sevastopol that was full of civilians was made by Soviet authorities just like the decision to defend Warsaw in 1939 was made by Polish authorities or decision to defend Rotterdam in 1940 was made by Dutch authorities.

    As far as POW’s German treatment of Soviet POW’s, it was despicable. That fact that USSR was not signatory of convention on POW treatment does not excuse Germans in my opinion. Was Soviet treatment of German POW’s better? How many POW’s from Paulus army survived? Or is it taken into account the fact that 100′s of thousands Soviet POW’s fought on the side of Germans that subsequently were killed by Soviets. Which side of statistics are they counted on?

  326. @EugeneGur

    Read
    Solly Zuckermann, ‘From Apes to Warlords, an autobiography, 1904- 46’, London 1988
    on how Lindemann, Churchill’s scientific adviser proposed the bombing of densely populated cities after the RAF found out that day bombing was murderous for the bombers, and that night bombing of industries resultet in 3% of the bombs somewhere in the vicinity of factories.

    Lindemann misinterpreted a report by Zuckerman on the effects of the bombing of Coventry, it was expected by Lindemann that German war morale would disappear in a short time.
    It did not.

    The Luftwaffe bombing refugees ?
    Never heard of, for what purpose ?

    Bombing Minsk and whatever, Germany did not even have a long range heavy bomber.
    Goering ordered the prototype scrapped in 1939.

  327. @StopBolshevikLies

    ” It was Hitler to introduce the first the total war in Europe, shooting civilians, bombing civilian trains, refugees columns and hospitals. ”

    Where in Norway, Denmark, the Netherlands, Belgium and France ?
    Prof Lou de Jongs’s ten volume description of the German occupation does not mention such things, except of course resistance fighters.

  328. @StopBolshevikLies

    The Warsaw uprising, Stalin ordering his troops to stand by and do nothing, denying planes from GB with Polish pilots the use of airfields in Russian hands.

  329. @Mulegino1

    Taking Okinawa cost 150.00 Japanese lives, against 7000 USA.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
    , @L.K
  330. Imperium says:

    Interesting that history so often repeats itself. In the late 20′s and early 30′sthe Communists under such names as Rote front and Spartacus league were actively trying to Sovietize Germany and the scum of the earth infested the streets of Berlin , led by such gutter rodents as Karl Liebknecht and Rosa Luxemburg The red revolution was stopped with the participation of the ex soldiers of the Freikorps and the SA . Today we have the progenitors of the red bastards only this time they have taken on the bolshevist identity of Antifa, but the acorn does not fall far from the tree does it?
    Now if history does in fact repeat itself there will be a firm and powerful nationalist reaction but lets hope its not from Government stooges- – (Agent Provocateurs) like the KKK and Nazis who are hirelings of the ABC agencies .

  331. @Sparkon

    The allied bombings accomplished nothing militarily, just made it possible for Germany to increase the war effort.
    German war production was highest in 1944.
    If Germany could have produced a fleet of heavy bombers, and manned it, provided it with fuel and bombs, highly doubtful.
    Materials were lacking.
    During WWII Germany was unable to produce high performance piston aircraft engines because they missed the metals to make the necessary alloys.

    • Replies: @utu
  332. utu says:
    @The King is A Fink

    There is no question about that Warsaw 1944 uprising was started by Polish government in exile. In retrospect it was a very bad decision that ended up costing c. 200,000 of mostly civilians lives. The only beneficiary of the uprising were Soviets for whom the subjugation of Poland after WWII was easier because of it.

    There is no question that in the first few weeks Germans (SS units of mostly Russians and Ukrainians) committed horrible atrocities on civilian population in Wola district.

    There is no question that during the fight to suppress the uprising German destroyed a large part of the city by artillery shelling and aerial bombardment which was not against the Hague convention in this circumstance.

    There is no question that after the uprising when city was emptied of its population Germans demolition teams continued the destruction of the city infrastructure. Warsaw ended up being one of the most devastated European cities. Was its infrastructure destruction similar to that of Dresden? I haven’t seen anybody doing such comparisons.

    There is no equation that Allies air force from bases in Italy flew supply mission for the Polish Home Army in the later phase of the uprising.

    There is no question that Soviets were obstructing this supply missions by not allowing RAF bombers (mostly Polish and South African airmen) to land on the Soviet held territory (later they let USAAF use a base). This increased number of losses of Ally crews and also the precision of drops.

    There is no question that the missions were futile because they started too late when Germans recaptured most of the city and thus most of the dropped suppliers ended up in German hand. Their real purpose was to a assuage the conscience of British and Polish government in exile politicians. 112 out of 637 Polish and 133 out of 735 British and South African airmen were shot down.

  333. @Beefcake the Mighty

    “Hitler’s decision to declare war on the US remains baffling to me.”

    Why is it baffling? It’s just a typical (of very many) example of Hitler’s willful stupidity.

  334. L.K says:
    @utu

    Although I dislike Wally’s approach and not long ago have stated myself that he perhaps does more harm than good to holocau$t revisionism and to CODOH & their brave and excellent work( Wally being just the mod for the forum), I really dislike your attempt to get him banned by Unz.

    Gasbag utu:

    If Ron Unz is really serious about having here a revisionist it should not be you because you are disingenuous, insincere,dishonest, probably very stupid and you harm the cause of true revisionism… and [...] You stupid fucker, it is not about winning but about truth, about being thorough, about being conscientious, about being objective. This concepts apparently are foreign to you. Yes, you are here to win. You stupid fuck.

    Hey, Idiot, Wally is merely someone posting in the comment section, not a writer at Unz. Take a chill pill already.
    Besides, you have demonstrated in other threads in the past, all of the traits you attribute to Wally; Dishonesty, lack of sincerity and objectivity and yes, even tremendous stupidity.

    You are on record here at Unz, under a Revusky article, suggesting that if propaganda works – in that particular case it was exaggerating Muslim rapes and crime in Germany – in forwarding ones goals, then why not do it. That right there showed how much you care for the “Truth” and for “objectivity”.

    Also, judging from some of your idiotic statements in the recent past, I seriously doubt you ever read any major holocaust revisionist book. I guess a certain type of WW2 revisionism does not sit well with you.

    So, take it down a notch, you pompous, self-inflated gasbag, and while at it, take your petition and shove it up your ass.

  335. @David In TN

    Hitler was many things but stupid is certainly not one of them. (Call me a fanboy if you like, I really do not care at all.) As a wartime leader he certainly made some poor decisions but also a number of hard, and right, calls. He was definitely superior in this regard to Stalin, who simply threw conscripts into the meat grinder, or Churchill, who (as attested by his generals) spent most of the war drunk.

  336. utu says:
    @jilles dykstra

    The allied bombings accomplished nothing militarily, just made it possible for Germany to increase the war effort.

    German war production was highest in 1944.

    Nonsense. W/o the bombings war production could have been even higher if there was a political will to impose greater austerity on German population and introduce war economy like in the USSR much sooner. For too long German authorities were maintaining the fiction for the benefit of its population that things economically will only be getting better as it was the case of 1930s and that the war effort was successful on all fronts. The extent of damage by bombings was minimized for the sake of morale. No wonder that Germans did not succeed in propaganda war as presenting themselves as victims of atrocities and war crimes. Brits got a lot of mileage from every bombing like Coventry while Germans failed to raise any sympathy even after the Operation Gomorrah, Hamburg bombing.

  337. @jilles dykstra

    Yes, the Americans indiscriminately shelled civilians during the assault, and raped large numbers of Okinawan women afterwards. (Admittedly many Okinawans killed themselves after believing Japanese propaganda about American barbarity, but one wonders how inaccurate that propaganda really was).

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Alden
  338. L.K says:
    @EugeneGur

    Eugene-Clown without the makeup-Gur:

    The German POWs in the Soviet Union were treated decently, a lot more decently than they deserved.

    buahhahaHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA

    Keep them coming clown, you really are “funny”.

    Imagine if your heroes had not treated German POWs decently , eh?
    Instead of 5.000 survivors out of 90.000 captured at Stalingrad, there would have been what… zero?

    You are good for a laugh, keep it coming!

  339. L.K says:
    @jilles dykstra

    US lost 2x that, some 14.000 kia, plus tens of thousands of WIA.

    150.000 refers to civilians. Japanese military ground forces at Okinawa numbered a little over 70.000, majority of whom died.

  340. L.K says:
    @StopBolshevikLies

    Basically, your post is total nonsense.

  341. L.K says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    What forced the issue was the leaked Rainbow Five plan.

    Why Hitler Declared War on the United States

    http://www.inconvenienthistory.com/9/3/4882

  342. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    Just ban Wally’s comment that include CODOH. That should suffice.

    • Disagree: Zumbuddi
  343. anarchyst says:
    @Imperium

    You are correct. Please look up “Crowds On Demand”, a jewish-owned company that “rents out” agents “provocateurs” and “troublemakers” for any purpose. This is what modern-day bolshevism is all about.

  344. tango47 says:

    @Mulegino1

    “It is stipulated that the Wehrmacht and the SS conducted anti-partisan reprisal shootings and the taking of hostages in response to terrorist attacks upon military and police units. Such actions often involved the execution of minors (who were themselves oftentimes members of the partisans and the underground.) However, the execution of the extreme elderly, small children and toddlers appear to be free inventions of Allied and Soviet atrocity propagandists. ”

    There is a mountain of documentary evidence and eyewitness accounts proving that what you wrote is pure bunkum. Of course, the Hitler lovers will say that all of it is faked. The Wehrmacht and SS were exemplary soldiers who always abided by the Geneva Convention and never committed any war crimes. That´s one hell of a conspiracy that would have had to involve tens of thousands of people. This account of a mass killing of Jews for example. I already know what your reply will be. All made up or extracted from him while he was being tortured. You people are beyond hope.

    http://germanhistorydocs.ghi-dc.org/pdf/eng/English40.pdf

  345. utu says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    one wonders how inaccurate that propaganda really was

    This a very good question. As far as treating POW’s there are statistics on POW/KIA ratio of Japanese by Americans which point to only one conclusion. The fact that at some point it was decided to improve this statistics by incentivizing GI’s with ice cream for desert and furlough for not killing their prisoners tells a lot. But this was late in the war. Japanese were totally dehumanized in American propaganda and this was convenient for the military effort and tacitly accepted by higher command. Only towards the end of the war they began to worry about the image and tried to reduce the slaughter.

    That millions of former US soldiers kept silent about it for years and the stories of the real slaughter did not surfaces tell you a lot about the unifying power of atrocity. No wonder that some secret and not so secret societies use ritual killings as the requirement for the entry.

  346. Mulegino1 says:
    @StopBolshevikLies

    There is an enormous difference between terror/area bombing and siege bombing. Dresden, Hamburg and most major German cities experienced the former which was undertaken in large part to inflict maximum casualties upon the civilian population and to degrade civilian morale. How this is not genocide is beyond me.

    Siege bombing (Rotterdam, Warsaw) is undertaken to support ground forces besieging an enemy target or fortification. There is little difference in principle between siege bombing and an artillery bombardment.

    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @Avery
    , @Anonnymoose
  347. Alden says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Dykstra is an upper middle class N European “ intellectual”. That means he believes nothing good about the United States and everything bad no matter how false about the United States
    including that there is no health insurance, free county hospitals or free medical programs such as medi-caid in the United States.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  348. L.K says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Hey Beefcake,

    That order of magnitude (100’s K) of mass shootings is indeed realistic, and supported by actual German documentation. Just as clearly these were security measures (doubtless very excessive), and NOT part of an extermination plan.

    The last part of the holohoax I let go, was this holocaust by bullets thing.

    After struggling with it for a few years, and after quite a bit of research, I’ve concluded that it is largely BS… with some bits of truth.

    Undoubtedly the Einsatzgruppen & other security units in the rear, in the context of the Partisanenkrieg, did in fact shoot a lot of people, including innocent folks.

    With that being said, the German documentation you mention is VERY dubious to say the least.
    The figures mentioned are ridiculously high.
    Basically, check out the chain of custody, who found them, the original German copies seem nowhere to be found.
    German historian U. Walendy criticized the reports both in terms of form and language used.
    I looked at some with a friend, and they are a mix of perfectly well written German with some ‘un-German’ German here and there. No time to go into details but I believe these reports were indeed found by the Allies, possibly the Soviets, and then passed on to the zamerican team led by that naturalized Jew, Ferencz. The reports were tempered with and copies made of those.
    Normally, forgeries are made based on originals, which serve as templates.

    Without those “documents”, we’d have nothing, given that the dozens of Soviet “investigative” commissions found not even one mass grave close in scale to Katyn.

    An interesting bit is that in the EG story lies the foundation for the alleged systematic gassing of jews, initially in the USSR, and later in “death camps” in Poland, since they are the ones who allegedly started using Gaswagen…

    Ironic too that such mobile gas chambers are said to have first been developed by the NKVD.
    True or not, the Soviets were aware of the rumors and during the war began the propaganda that the Germans were using such vans.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  349. Alden says:
    @David In TN

    Wasnt Hitler bound by the Axis agreements and treaty to declare war on any country Japan and Italy were at war with?

  350. Alden says:
    @Imperium

    The Freikorps was run by the German army. They were paid as a sort of militia national guard. It was a great idea and they probably prevented a Jewish communist takeover after WW1

    I can’t see our multi cult military helping any kind of nationalist movement.

    The law and order situation in completely different. Our city police are capable of controlling the anti fa movement. If they are not ordered to stand down as they were in Charlottesville and Portland that is.

    Germany in 1920 was a chaotic anarchic mess which is why the army formed the Freikorps.

    Our problem is not a revolutionary antifa. They are an arm of TPTB, the government, academia, the media the anti White racists and the cheap labor cannibal capitalists.

  351. Alden says:
    @Wally

    So codoh is anti Polish as well as anti soviet Russia?

  352. @Beefcake the Mighty

    Spot-on observations by Truman.

    I loathe that POS, but he was correct there.

    It needs to be stressed repeatedly: collective Jewish behavior plays a big role in hostility towards Jews.

    Correct. Most people don’t just dislike others for no valid reason. Prominent exceptions seem to be your typical tribal Jews, who probably because they feel inferior to everyone else, resent them and make up all kinds of (bleep) such as they’re the “chosen” and brilliant and what not, and imagine that everyone hates them for no reason.

    What a pain.

  353. @StopBolshevikLies

    It was Hitler to introduce the first the total war in Europe, shooting civilians, bombing civilian trains, refugees columns and hospitals.

    Do you consider Russia and the Ukraine part of Europe or not?

    Ever hear of the Bolshies?

    Ever wonder who funded Hitler, Lenin and Stalin, and why ?

  354. @EugeneGur

    Would you like to recall that Germany started the war with the Soviet Union…

    Actually, the international banker backed Bolshies started the war.

    • Replies: @EugeneGur
  355. @Imperium

    In the late 20′s and early 30′sthe Communists under such names as Rote front and Spartacus league were actively trying to Sovietize Germany and the scum of the earth infested the streets of Berlin , led by such gutter rodents as Karl Liebknecht and Rosa Luxemburg

    Thank you.

    I find it extremely disgusting that so many “educated” Hitler bashers here flippantly overlook facts like that.

    It’s almost as if the Bolshies and their international banker buddies never existed and the Nazis just popped up out of nowhere and for no reason and started hating Jews because they had nothing better to do.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  356. @David In TN

    It’s just a typical (of very many) example of Hitler’s willful stupidity.

    So are we to suppose you’d have approved if he just bent over and appeased the Reds like FDR and Churchill did?

    Hitler did not want war, but the bankers were out to get him and nothing he could have done or not done would have prevented the crushing of Germany. There were big profits and other bennies for the big boys from war, and the big money crowd, come Hell or high water, were set on the destruction of competition and the enhancement of profits, same as in WW1.

    This is a nice little piece for you that ought to stimulate some thinking and questioning.

    Did Hitler Want War?

    http://buchanan.org/blog/did-hitler-want-war-2068

    Spoiler: The answer is “no.”

  357. @Beefcake the Mighty

    Anyone disputing anything you wrote there is beyond braindead brainwashed. It’s sad and astonishing that such verities need to be explained.

  358. Avery says:
    @Mulegino1

    {It is stipulated that the Wehrmacht and the SS conducted anti-partisan reprisal shootings and the taking of hostages in response to terrorist attacks upon military and police units.}

    Every Wehrmacht personnel, and the SS, and all other assorted Nazi terrorists who had invaded somebody else’s lands were war criminals and the real terrorists.
    Every partisan who fought the invaders was a patriot.
    Those partisans were not operating one German soil: they were killing invaders of their homelands. Too bad they didn’t kill nearly enough of the Nazi invaders.

  359. Hibernian says:
    @jilles dykstra

    The last operational use of a battleship by the US was in the early ’80s off the coast of Lebanon. Four of them had been demothballed during the war in Vietnam.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  360. @tango47

    The documentation you refer to makes it very clear that the mass-shootings took place in the context of anti-partisan warfare on the Eastern Front, NOT as part of an extermination plan. War in the SU was very ugly stuff, and while this does not excuse or exonerate the Germans, it puts their actions in more understandable terms, and not something cosmic we’re supposed to forever agonize over.

  361. Alden says:
    @Anon

    Another “ researcher” who has no access to university libraries. Go to the sources.

  362. Avery says:
    @Mulegino1

    {…. to inflict maximum casualties upon the civilian population and to degrade civilian morale. }

    Nope: Allies were conducting anti-terrorist operations in response to terrorist attacks by Nazi terrorists. (….how do you like that? don’t complain: learned from you).

    {How this is not genocide is beyond me}.

    Of course it is beyond you: someone who does not know the difference between an invader and someone who fights and kills invaders can’t possibly comprehend.
    It wasn’t genocide the same way what Nazis did to Untermenschen was.
    Do you even know what the word ‘genocide’ means?

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  363. @L.K

    I largely agree, but the revisionists Reynouard and Verbeke went through actual field reports, not the distorted summaries sent to Berlin. They put the numbers over 350K, well less than the 1-2M rubbish we commonly hear but not a trivial number either. Most definitively, however, the reports make clear there was no extermination plan, these actions, however excessive, were part of security measures on the Eastern Front.

    https://alisonchabloz.wordpress.com/tag/siegfried-verbeke/

    • Replies: @L.K
  364. @L.K

    Doubtless the Germans felt they had little recourse at that stage re. the Americans, still not the wisest decision. One wonders why the Japanese, likewise pushed to the limits by the US, didn’t open a second front against the Soviets instead. Sure, they were chastised at Khalkhin Gol two years before (cue the Team Russia morons claiming that negates the Russo-Japan War), but it made more sense than getting the Americans involved.

  365. @Alden

    When Hitler ordered the invasion of the Soviet Union in June 1941, he tried to get the Japanese to join in but they refused. Japan was preparing to bomb Pearl Harbor and invade the Philippines, etc.

    The Japanese may have justified it on the grounds of Hitler wasn’t himself attacked, but had started it.

    In the same vein, Hitler could have declined to declare war on the Americans after Pearl Harbor. But being Hitler he thought war with the world’s leading industrial power, along with the other two world powers (Britain and the Soviet Union) was a great idea.

  366. EugeneGur says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    war was forced on the Germans for the most part

    Please, explain to an ignorant Russian what exactly forced you to come to my country and start murdering everyone in sight?

    The gas chambers are a hoax

    You wish – unfortunately, they were quite real. Go to Mauthausen, for example, and although little remains of the original, the gas chamber is the main camp as well as in Gusen are still there – you can see them. You don’t suppose the Austrians were mean enough to construct them simply to annoy you?

    In addition to gassing, other ingenious methods were used like bathing to death (drowning in icy water), poisoning, starvation. These methods might be preferred by some, but I don’t believe they are really that much better than gas chambers.

  367. @Alden

    No, of course not, it was a defensive pact.

    • Replies: @David In TN
  368. @Avery

    I understand that you are an idiot, but surely even you recognize the difference between reprisal shootings against local populations who have some connection to partisans who engage in illegal attacks, vs. bombing of civilian centers who could not possibly have played any kind of military role. But then again, maybe you are stupider than I thought.

    • Replies: @utu
  369. EugeneGur says:
    @jacques sheete

    Actually, the international banker backed Bolshies started the war.

    You know I’ve read a lot of BS here but this takes the cake for the sheer lunacy of this statement.
    You guys are simply insane – in a purely medical sense. You are denying the undeniable and trying to prove the unprovable.
    Good luck to you and have fun while you can.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  370. @EugeneGur

    You are completely clueless. No one, not even mainstream historians, believes there were gas chambers in the West. Those were all, supposedly, in Poland (i.e. areas that fell under Communist control after the war).

    • Replies: @EugeneGur
    , @utu
  371. Wally says: • Website
    @EugeneGur

    said:
    “Go to Mauthausen, for example, and although little remains of the original, the gas chamber is the main camp as well as in Gusen are still there – you can see them.”

    No you cannot. The Mauthausen fakery has been demolished repeatedly.
    see publications here:

    https://codoh.com/search/?sorting=relevance&q=Mauthausen+gas+chamber

    brief example:

    [MORE]

    Unanswered Questions Regarding the Physical Evidence at the Mauthausen Concentration Camp (Austria)

    The gas chamber at concentration camp Mauthausen (in Austria) has no locks on the doors, and no holes or fittings where locks may once have been. The doors can be opened from inside or outside. How could human beings have been gassed in this room?

    The peepholes in the two Mauthausen gas chamber doors have no hemispherical metal grid covering the glass, as would have been necessary to prevent the victims from knocking out the glass and causing a gas leak. There are no holes or fittings where a grid might once have been. Doesn’t Pressac write extensively about the need for such hemispherical grids? Doesn’t Pressac recount survivor testimony regarding the need for such grids during a homicidal gassing? With no grid, what stopped the inmates from knocking out the glass, using either their hands or the ample shower piping in the chamber?

    Why are there no Zyklon B traces, or blue stains, in this chamber?

    The hole in the ceiling of this chamber, through which the Zyklon B crystals were supposedly poured, is small enough to be blocked by the inmates hands, and the ceiling is low enough for them to block the hole. How could the Zyklon B be effectively poured in?

    There is a large drain in the floor of this room. There are no holes or fittings where a cover for this drain might have been attached. What would stop the victims from brushing the Zyklon B crystals down this drain?

    Unlike the Dachau “fake shower room”, which indeed has fake shower heads (which were directly screwed into the concrete to a maze of water pipes which run the length of the ceiling AND across the walls. Doesn’t this room resemble a real shower room? How do we know it wasn’t?

    What would have been the wisdom of construction a fake shower room with such a maze of pipes running across the ceiling and walls? Wouldn’t the victims have torn these fixtures down? Doesn’t Pressac write about how the victims in the Auschwitz gas chambers would destroy the electrical fixtures and anything else in the chamber? Wouldn’t the pipes serve as perfect weapons with which to smash a hole through the unguarded peepholes (not to mention the doors have no locks)? And if the prisoners didn’t wish to block the Zyklon B induction hole with their hands, the showers heads would’ve fit inside the hole nicely. Why wasn’t the “fake shower heads screwed directly into the ceiling” method (a la Dachau) employed here?

    Considering the absence of Zyklon B traces, locks on the doors, peephole covers, and a viable means of pouring in the Zyklon B, and factoring in the floor drain and the water pipes and genuine shower heads in this room, why can’t we assume this was a genuine shower room?

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  372. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @EugeneGur

    Merkel is just stupid. I know she’s a physicist. It means nothing since she lacks all common sense.

  373. EugeneGur says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Come on, why don’t you do a simple thing: Google “Hartheim Castle gas chamber” or “Gusen gas chamber” and you’ll be treated to a photo tour of either. Both are still there and you can visit. According to the records (the Nazis were meticulous bastards), in 1941 alone 8,599 prisoners were murdered in Hartheim Castle.

    Is Austria not West enough for you?

    I’ve been to Gusen and Mauthausen, and I’ve seen both camps and the gas chamber. I do tend to believe the evidence of my own eyes. I have a special interest in Mauthausen, because a friend of my family had enjoyed your hospitality in that place during the war. He had something to say about it. I think it is highly debatable who is clueless here.

    i.e. areas that fell under Communist control after the war

    And what’s that supposed to mean? Still trying to shift the blame, are you?

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  374. utu says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    When Stalin decided to create partisans behind the front line in Russia, Belarus and Ukraine their chief objective was not killing German soldiers and doing sabotage like blowing up the trains but sowing and inflaming terror by killing all Russians, Belorussians, Ukrainians who were or perhaps would be collaborating with Germans. And the chief objective was to provoke German reprisals because majority of population there were not loyal to Soviet government anymore. Hundreds of villages organized self-defense groups and often were armed by Germans to defend themselves agains these “patriotic” partisans. The partisan warfare succeeds into turning these places into senseless bloodshed. One may ask the questions how many Germans did the partisan warfare killed? Did their actions shorten the war by more than one day? How many Russians, Belorussian and Ukrainians lost their lives because of the partisan warfare?

    Interesting links for example of Soviet citizens loyalty to Soviet regime:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lokot_Autonomy

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonina_Makarova

  375. @EugeneGur

    Hartheim was part of the Nazi euthanasia program, and whatever happened there, it had nothing to do with war crimes on the Eastern Front. Wally has already provided links re. the forgeries at Mauthausen. As I said, no mainstream historians take seriously the claims about gassings in the West, what we are commonly expected to atone for is what happened in Poland, where the Communists permitted nothing like a proper, outside investigation to verify their incredible claims.

  376. @Wally

    It’s worth noting that even the wiki entry for Mauthausen only speaks in vague terms here, and seems to attribute the bulk of the killings to mobile gas vans, an obvious absurdity (I don’t even believe the earlier claims that the NKVD used such things). At any rate the number of gassings at Mauthausen, by wiki’s vague accounting, would number in the 1000’s, hardly worth mentioning compared to what we’re expected to believe about Treblinka et al.

  377. utu says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    not even mainstream historians, believes there were gas chambers in the West

    First time I heard this admission from Ernst Nolte when he was still alive. I can’t find it on internet now. Then I found out that already in 1960 Martin Broszat claimed that there was no gassing in Dachau, Bergen-Belsen, Buchenwald. Do you have any references to other mainstream historians?

  378. @Beefcake the Mighty

    “No, of course not, it was a defensive pact.”

    The willfully stupid Hitler declared war on the U.S. anyway.

  379. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @jacques sheete

    That’s right. What became the Nazi party was founded the very same day the communists tried to overthrow the German government in Berlin, in an attempted replay of what they had done previously in St. Petersberg. Action Reaction. Any study of Nazism which doesn’t give equal prominence to Communism is flawed or dishonest.

  380. Mulegino1 says:
    @Avery

    I do not expect you to have critical thinking skills in sufficient quantity in order to realize that what you have written is sheer nonsense.

    Partisan warfare was illegal under the international rules of warfare in force at the time of the war. Since partisans do not wear any identifying uniforms or insignia and melt into the local population, they can rightly be called terrorists, because their activity is almost certain to involve reprisals against the local populations that harbor them.

    Executions of partisans and even reprisal shootings of hostages were NOT illegal under the rules governing warfare in force at the time.

    You very clearly have no idea what you are talking about, and appear to be a brainwashed dupe.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  381. @Alden

    This intellectual visited a USA friend in 2000, and was asked if the son of friends of my friend could be treated in the Netherlands, for treatment in the USA the parents would have to sell their house.
    The alternative was to let the child die.
    I, in vain, I think, explained that we Dutch pay for health care, and so cannot treat foreigners for free, the whole world would come to us.

    As a nephew of me, living for years in the USA, said ‘I you get cancer here you are bankrupt’.
    A medical friend of mine visited USA hospitals, and was astonished about the difference in treatment between poor and rich people.

    I indeed despise USA society, pretending to be a democracy, in reality run by rich people.
    ‘I have no compassion with the poor’, we in Europe have.
    Senators that are bought.
    Judges not seen as objective, therefore juries, that can be fooled, in my opinion, see the O.J. Simpson case.
    I visited the USA several times, stayed with USA friends, read a lot of books.

    A Vietnam veteran friend said to me ‘we were sent there to defend democracy, but is was not true’.
    Another Vietnam veteran told me that the USA did bomb hospitals and schools in N Vietnam.
    A Korea veteran, disabled for life, knew quite well that the war there was nonsense.
    Another friend said about USA police ‘the internal army’.

    What I like about the USA is the scenery, such as the little known Bad Lands.
    How far some USA people are from the rest of the world I realised there, the words Holland and Netherlands did not seem to ring bell, so I mentioned Europe.
    In my mind indeed there is little positive about the USA, the richest country in the world spending massive on wars, now since FDR.
    As Jimmy Carter said ‘those that cause wars do not expect to be hurt themselves’.

    I expirienced the USA as a poor country, except for oversized cars, and blatant luxury in gated communities, such as Seventeen Miles Drive.
    We lost our way in Hollywood, strayed into a poor area, I hardly dared to ask for directions.
    The last time I was in the USA, Florida, I got a leaflet with the car, telling me not to stop when driven in to, and not to ask for directions.
    In fourteen days in Florida I saw some eight arrests, in my whole life here one.
    The number of negative words for groups in the USA is astonishing, what WOP meant, took years to find out.
    But even Dutch immigrant to the USA I found to have turned racist, Mexicans were good for dirty jobs.

    Alas this is the way empires function, the British, and also the Dutch, when it existed, though we behaved comparatively civilised since the end of the 19th century.
    Yet, there was and is democracy in GB and with us, be it that the EU more and more runs us, our elections mean next to nothing any more.
    GB is leaving the EU, could we vote on EU membership, quite possible we would also leave.
    Even Macron said that if the French could vote on EU membership France would leave.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  382. @utu

    Based on evidence given in Neurenberg, Poliakov writes that the Auschwitz gas chambers were blown up at the end of 1944.
    There have been many scientific investigations showing that what is shown there as gas chamber never was one.
    Léon Poliakov, ‘Bréviaire de la Haine, Le IIIe Reich et les Juifs’, 1951, 1974, Paris
    I’m not sure if it is Poliakov or Wiesel who describes the gas chambers as underground cellars.
    No such cellars now in Birkenau.
    Elie Wiesel, ‘La Nuit’, 1958, 2007

    But all this discussion about what happened to jews just distracts from the real issue, why was the second world war, with at least some 60 million deaths, among them some ten million Germans, with the destruction and political upheaval it caused ?
    Who wanted this war ?
    And then I alas see FDR as the main criminal, with those who brought him into politics, Bernard Baruch in the first place.

  383. @Hibernian

    Lebanon did have an impressive air force

  384. @Beefcake the Mighty

    Read
    Kai S. Schreyber (Hrsg.), ´Warum wir ADOLF HITLER wählten, Jungwähler von 1933/38 berichten’, 2001 Kiel
    Germans who voted for Hitler, interviewed at the beginning of the 80ties, stating that 1938 was the happiest year of their life.

  385. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Mulegino1

    I was just reading about the Korean war, in particular the chaotic retreat to Pusan early in the war, when it looked like U.N. forces were about to suffer a catastrophe. Apparently the U.S. army had a deliberate policy (though publicly denied) of shooting any Koreans who approached their lines without authorisation. Several massacres of innocent refugees resulted. Nasty stuff. Yet the communists were using refugees as cover to infiltrate and outflank U.S. positions. If these harsh measures hadn’t been taken the campaign would have been lost. What else could have been done?

  386. @tango47

    …the Hitler lovers …bla bla bla… You people are beyond hope.

    You know what’s beyond hope? It’s the dupes who still get erections (such as they might be) over the international gangster bankers and their puppets, FDR, Churchill and Stalin.

    Believing in 80+ year old propaganda is not a sign of intelligence or knowledge, get it?

    • Replies: @tango47
  387. @jilles dykstra

    Jyles, I must say that you’ve expressed quite an accurate impression of the real America, and I say that as a person born in this perverted rat hole who’s been in the military (what a cesspool of degenerates), and have done well enough that I could never be accurately accused of being jealous of what others have.

    I’ve spent my whole life associating with “professional” people and am astonished at the mephitic mentation of the great bulk of them; their ignorance outside their fields is surpassed only by their arrogance and they are typically intrigued by the most superficial of baubles.

    The bulk of the citizenry here believe that they’re free, that they live in a democracy and imagine that they’re are part of some “great” nation. Why that should mean anything or reflect positively on them, I will never understand. Most of them believe the opposite of the truth about most things it seems.

    None of this would be so horrifying if it were not so perturbing.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  388. @jilles dykstra

    Who wanted this war ?
    And then I alas see FDR as the main criminal, with those who brought him into politics, Bernard Baruch in the first place.

    Excellent question and an equally sensible answer.

    FDR was the puppet of monsters such as the one you named and several others, mostly Red millionaires such as the likes of Gerard Swope, the president of General Electric, and Sidney Weinberg who was a son of Pincus Weinberg, a Polish-born liquor wholesaler and bootlegger in Brooklyn, who became the head of Goldman-Sachs and was an “advisor” to several presidents.

    Anthony Sutton has a series of short books dealing with the money behind the criminals.

  389. @EugeneGur

    You know I’ve read a lot of BS here but this takes the cake for the sheer lunacy of this statement.

    Kindly provide evidence to support your claim.

    You guys are simply insane – in a purely medical sense.

    Hey, I am likely insane*, but that doesn’t mean I’m wrong. You can try to prove me wrong, and I hope you do. Good luck.

    You are denying the undeniable and trying to prove the unprovable.

    Prove your claims if you can.

    PS: In case you haven’t already been informed, I am not the topic of either the thread or the article, and reports of my mental state are of no interest to anyone here besides you, so what’s yer point? I guess it must really irk you that an ignorant, low IQ crackpot such as myself knows more than you and is better at connecting the dots as well.

    Maybe a little insanity would do you good, Mr. Smart Guy! ;)

    PS: Tell us what you know about Sidney Weinberg of Goldman Sachs, and Gerard Swope (Schwab) of General Electric for starters.

    * Only an insane person would try to reason with a brainwashed old fool, for instance. Only an insane person would provide perfectly good info to a dolt, which is what I’ve done. Yes, I certainly must be insane.

    • LOL: lavoisier
  390. @utu

    Faurisson provides a timeline of concessions by mainstream historians on various facets of the story, including a French-language historian (Wormser-Migot) who expresses skepticism over accounts of gassing as Mauthausen:

    http://robertfaurisson.blogspot.com/2006/12/victories-of-revisionism.html

    Apart from Broszat and Dachau (that you mention), there is the well-known admission by the Wiesenthal Center (admittedly not a scholarly outlet) that there were no gassings on German soil, which even groups Nizkor concede. I believe Jack Fischel merely states that there is no scholarly consensus on the issue of camps in Austria.

    So, I will acknowledge that I perhaps made an overstatement (that no one believes in gassings at the Western camps), however I don’t think it’s at all controversial that what is commonly understood as “The Holocaust” refers to what happened in the East, primarily the camps in Poland and the mass shootings in the SU. Whether or not a mainstream historian will go on record as saying they disbelieve the accounts in the Western camps, does not change the fact that the vast bulk of the story centers on the East.

  391. @jacques sheete

    I’m just back from visiting a friend who visited a pregnant Dutch girl living in New York.
    I knew USA health care was expensive, for those who can afford it, but what I just heard for me just is an extortion racket.

    We Dutch are obligatory insured, the name insurance is wrong, health insurers arenot allowed to make profit, they must accept anyone, and can never cancel an ‘insurance’.
    We pay some € 100 per month per person, on top of that we must pay the first € 400 per year ourselves, except for the GP, we do not want people to wait for seeing a doctor when ill for fear of costs.

    For this some € 1600 a year we get anything, if considered necessary, and reasonable.
    Heart surgery, only when five more years living in reasonable health can be expected.
    One year more of life should not cost more than € 80.000, but exceptions up to € 180.000 do exist.

    When drugs are considered too expensive, our single payer system negotiates, until now always with succes.
    Possibly the threat, more and more discussed politically, to abolish patent rights of drugs helps in the discussion.
    Expensive drugs can be manufactured in the Netherlands, costing a fraction of the prices asked.

    The system only functions because incomes of anyone in health care are regulated, doctors, nurses, paramedics, pharmacists; hospitals are not allowed to make profits.

    Such a system, I know, is impossible in the present USA moneycracy.
    Our system seems to be unique in the world, even Germany, Belgium and France have differences of treatment between rich and poor, in these countries those who can afford it are additionally insured, for better treatment.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  392. @jilles dykstra

    I have friends from Europe who’ve come to the US for “premier” health care (for cancer in both cases), who found out the hard way that the medical and especially the insurance systems here are indeed, largely an overhyped extortion racket.

    Both of them have taken their health care back home, where, incidentally they don’t have to put up with ignorant, insouciant and lazy ancillary personnel adorned with nose and tongue rings and tattoos all over the place. The only efficient office in the hospitals seem to be the business offices and I do mean efficient, as in industrial vacuum cleaners. In fact , both had to leave substantial deposits with them before being seen. The promptness in billing could never be matched by anything the docs do.

    As for me, I get the bulk of my health care in Asia. The docs there are world class and actually human. I paid 60 USD for an exam there that would easily have cost USD 1500 at the same time here, and it was done by a very skilled specialist whereas here I would have had to take my chances with some half competent, money-grubbing, arrogant schmuck working a mill.

    Prescription drugs are way less expensive there as well.

  393. @jilles dykstra

    The Germans destroyed the Auschwitz crematoria (which are claimed to actually have been covers for homicidal gassings), doubtless after the propaganda coup the Soviets conducted after capturing Majdanek a few months earlier:

    http://www.whale.to/b/allen.html

  394. tango47 says:
    @jacques sheete

    @jacques sheete

    “You know what’s beyond hope? It’s the dupes who still get erections (such as they might be) over the international gangster bankers and their puppets, FDR, Churchill and Stalin.
    Believing in 80+ year old propaganda is not a sign of intelligence or knowledge, get it?”

    Yeah right , and you Nazi wannabes all pretend to be so erudite but at the end of the day you´re merely apologists for an evil , homicidal regime that was run by perverts and psycopaths and you do a putrid job while you´re at it. Just because the Soviets were also evil bastards doesn´t excuse the mass murders committed by your heroes in the Bloodlands. It doesn´t excuse the attempt to exterminate entire nations such as Poland, Ukraine, Belarus and Russia. Generalplan Ost was Allied propaganda, was it? Or perhaps you´ve never heard of it.No, they didn´t succeed but it sure wasn´t for lack of trying. These aren´t Jews we´re talking about here. These were predominantly white Christians.
    I can unequivocally say that the Dresden and Hamburg bombings were morally repugnant. I can say that Churchill was a warmonger of the first order. I can say that Roosevelt wanted war and did everything in his power to goad the Japanese. I can say that Wilson was being blackmailed to explain why he changed his tune at Versailles. I can say that the U.S. today is basically run by a Zionist cabal . But none of this exonerates the Nazis. Just because A is malevolent and vile doesn´t let B off the hook.

    • Agree: Alden
    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  395. L.K says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Hey Beefcake,

    Reynouard and Verbeke purchased copies made from other copies which is generally what the archives hold, this is normal practice and it is what most historians do. By originals I mean the original German copies supposedly found after the war.
    There are no field reports. The piece you linked to actually states this;
    …to buy copies of the official Einsatzgruppen reports (which are the result of collated Einsatzgruppen field reports) made at the Reich’s Berlin headquarters.

    Bear with me; you seem confused as to these EG reports which is to be expected, because it is confusing. The history of how these reports came into existance, both the Event Reports & their summaries, the Activity and Situation Reports:

    …reports from the front, prepared by non-qualified persons-some of them in double or even multiple versions-were received by the RSHA in Berlin by radio or telex, often with considerable delays. There they were reviewed by Knobloch, important parts highlighted, rewritten by secretaries and sent out unchecked and uncorrected as the final event reports( Ereignismeldungen UdSSR des Chefs der Sicherheitspolizei und des SD). Later on, after weeks, summaries were prepared from these event reports, to which, however, new data were added while others were deleted on an unknown basis. These summaries were issued as Tätigkeits- und Lageberichte (Activity and Situation Reports).

    It appears Reynouard and Verbeke took whatever numbers & events stated in these things at face value. I don’t.
    We need to remember that after the German forensic investigation of NKVD mass shootings at Katyn and Vinnytsia, the Soviets set up dozens of commissions to find evidence of similar or worse German atrocities. They never found anything remotely similar to those NKVD mass graves. If the events described in those EG reports had been true and on such a scale, the Soviets should have been able to find a few. Instead they went on to fabricate the crudest atrocity propaganda stories.

    Take care

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  396. @tango47

    Yeah right , and you Nazi wannabes all pretend to be so erudite but at the end of the day you´re merely apologists for an evil , homicidal regime that was run by perverts and psycopaths and you do a putrid job while you´re at it.

    That sounds a lot like you Bolshie and Izzy sympathizers except that you jokers do a good job at it. Practice must make perfect.

    Projection explains a lot here.

    Note: For the record, I didn’t get beyond what I copied, above. I have a low tolerance for caring what imbeciles have to say.

    • Replies: @Alden
  397. @Mulegino1

    As in WWI, the whole of Germany was a city under siege. In this war the British bombed German civilians instead of starving them, but the motive, rationale, and the end result were all the same.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
    , @Anonymous
  398. Ultimately, one man was to blame for the destruction of German cities in World War II, and it wasn’t Churchill or Roosevelt or Bomber Harris, or even poor old Goering. It was Hitler himself, who started an unnecessary war with Russia without first finishing the ongoing fight with the British. Britain should have been defeated, or at least driven out of the Mediterranean, before the Russian attack. If Hitler thought he could count on British honor to not attack Germany in the rear while she was committed in the East, then he seriously misjudged those “gentlemen”.

  399. @L.K

    Thanks L.K, I will give it some thought. Mattogno has a book coming out on the EG soon, hopefully it will clarify much of this. One thing is clear, numbers aside, these dispatches do refute the claim of some extermination plan.

  400. @Anonnymoose

    In this war the British bombed German civilians instead of starving them…

    Instead of starving them?

    Seriously?

  401. @Anonnymoose

    Hitler’s main error (apart from underestimating Soviet capabilities), was his failure to appreciate how implacably opposed Britain was to the rise of German power.

  402. Britain’s blunder was to think the German people could be destroyed, or Germany subjugated.
    After two world wars, that Germany lost, Berlin now is, alas, the real capital of the EU.
    Most of Britain’s industries either disappeared, or are bought by German enterprises.
    The British empire was destroyed completely.
    What the victories over Germany accomplished, was brainwashing the German people with guilt feelings, possibly Merkel has these too.
    It may be the basis or her Willkommen policy, letting in a many migrants as possible, thereby, in 30 to 40 years time, having destroyed all European cultures.

    • Agree: L.K
  403. Wally says: • Website
    @tango47

    tango:
    Unfortunately for you side, your link deals with what has already been debunked, long ago at CODOH in fact.
    Bruns’ alleged statements, while supposedly recorded, have been refuted rather easily. Including by Bruns himself.
    I’ve included a few more of those fake ‘recorded convesations’ for you to review.

    fact: All Revisionist were once Believers like yourself.
    recommended:
    ‘The bogus Bruns document’ http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=15

    ‘Bruns admits confession was fake’ http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=1311

    ‘recorded conversations not – ‘pumpkins/music directors’ http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=366

    ‘yet another bogus conversation, this one about ‘gassings’ http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=352

    ‘Bogus alleged ‘conversation’ about Babi Yar’ http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=345

    Not to mention the complete lack of alleged mass grave excavations showing any of the alleged remains.

  404. @EugeneGur

    Come to Babi Yar near Kiev

    Would that even be legal? I mean snooping around looking for proof of mass graves could get you labeled as a “revisionist” or “denier”. A guy looking for cyanide at Auschwitz got in trouble a while back.

    • Replies: @Wally
  405. @for-the-record

    there might have been a shooting war on the Atlantic

    Trivia: It was a US lend-lease Catalina plane and a US Navy serviceman that spotted the Bismarck during it’s final engagement when it was sunk.

    Last battle of the battleship Bismarck
    … In mid-morning a Coastal Command Catalina reconnaissance aircraft from 209 Squadron RAF… piloted by US Navy observer Ensign Leonard B. Smith, USNR, spotted Bismarck … and reported her position to the Admiralty.

  406. @for-the-record

    But the fact is that had Germany not declared war on the US immediately thereafter, it would have been very difficult for FDR to convince the country to focus its efforts on “neutral” Germany

    Then again, with the nation at war and mobilizing and patriotism at its peak, they could have just declared war on Germany anyway and sweep away dissent as being unpatriotic.

  407. Wally says:
    @Hippopotamusdrome

    said:
    “A guy looking for cyanide at Auschwitz got in trouble a while back.”

    Yes, CODOH’s Max Planck Institute Chemist Germar Rudolf was imprisoned for this:
    The Rudolf Report

    http://vho.org/GB/Books/trr/index.html

    Only liars imprison people for free speech and scientific research.

    much more on Rudolf here:

    https://codoh.com/search/?sorting=relevance&q=germar+rudolf

    and:
    Cyanide Chemistry at Auschwitz

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4111

    Cheers.

  408. @Avery

    Every Wehrmacht personnel… who had invaded somebody else’s lands were war criminals and the real terrorists.

    The Soviets who invaded Poland were the real terrorists. The Germans had to come to the defense of their Polish brothers.

  409. @EugeneGur

    Please, explain to an ignorant Russian what exactly forced you to come to my country

    Germany had signed a secret guarantee of Poland’s independence. No one knows about it because the allies destroyed all copies and evidence of it after the war. The Soviet therefore initiated hostilities with Germany when they invaded Poland in 17 September 1939.

  410. Karl says:
    @Mulegino1

    124 Mulegino 1 > Germans, whether good or indifferent, saw concentration camps for what they were- essentially rehabilitation centers for anti-social elements

    Can you show us, some examples of those who were “rehabilitated” and then went to fight in the German forces?

    • Replies: @Wally
  411. Wally says:
    @Karl

    said:
    “Can you show us, some examples of those who were “rehabilitated” and then went to fight in the German forces?”

    Did anyone say that they all went into the military? No doubt some did though, if of military age.
    Are you trying to imply that all those sent to camps were murdered? I hope not. Because if you are I will certainly demand proof of such a wild claim.

    BTW, you do know that many Jews served in the Wehrmacht, don’t you?
    You do know that many Jews lived openly in Berlin through the end of the war, don’t you?

    recommended:
    Liberation of the Camps: Facts vs. Lies http://www.ihr.org/leaflets/libcamps.shtml
    Regards.
    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Karl
  412. utu says:
    @EugeneGur

    Please, explain to an ignorant Russian what exactly forced you to come to my country and start murdering everyone in sight?

    To liberate ignorant Russians and non-ignorant but powerless Russians from communism an reduce the threat of communism to other countries. It much was more legitimate goal than bringing democracy by America to, say, Iraq.

    • Replies: @EugeneGur
  413. EugeneGur says:
    @utu

    To liberate ignorant Russians and non-ignorant but powerless Russians from communism

    Yes, you did “liberate” millions of Russians from communism in the same manner as the British “liberated” you in Dresden from Nazism. I guess you shouldn’t complain, then.

    But, again, this anti-communist mission of yours doesn’t quite qualify as being forced.

  414. @EugeneGur

    Please, explain to an ignorant Russian what exactly forced you to come to my country and start murdering everyone in sight?

    Murdering everyone in sight? You must be confused between Bolshies and Nazis. Ever hear of the Holodomor?

    Are you aware that Stalin was most probably preparing to invade Germany?

    Here’s a fine review of an excellent book on the concept.:

    The Chief Culprit: Stalin’s Grand Design to Start World War II, by Viktor Suvorov

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2014/02/bionic-mosquito/stalins-grand-design/

    Read it.

    PS: I do like that Stalin purged the USSR of a lot of old Bolshies…but other than that, no one can rationally accuse me of apologizing for him.

  415. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonnymoose

    The starving came after the war.

    And it was not until summer of 1946 that the US allowed care packages. More than a year after the war ended.

  416. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    That depends on how one defines “Jew,” I suppose. Being a quarter Jewish or half-Jewish often wouldn’t get one recognized as Jewish, particularly if they weren’t raised that way.

  417. Karl says:
    @Wally

    421 Wally > Did anyone say that they all went into the military?

    you said they were rehabilitation camps. So, can you show me some of those inmates who were rehabilitated and then released?

    I have no idea if 6 million Jews were murdered or not – but I know that the people who are trying to decide if they were, will not be impressed by a claim that Buchenwald or Auschwitz were rehab centers

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @utu
  418. Wally says:

    I see you are backpedaling. A common reaction after cognitive dissonance has dissipated a bit.
    I suggest you actually read the links that I post, they are very informative. This is specifically about Buchenwald:
    Buchenwald: Legend and Reality https://codoh.com/library/document/180/?lang=en
    a few excerpts:

    At the outbreak of war in September 1939 the camp population was 5,300. This grew slowly to 12,000 in early 1943, and then increased rapidly as many foreign workers, especially Poles, Ukrainians and Russians, were brought for employment in war production.[l]
    During the war years Buchenwald was expanded into a vast complex of more than a hundred satellite factories, mines and workshops spread across a large portion of Germany. The most important of these was probably the Dora underground plant, which produced V-2 missiles. In October 1944 it became the independent Nordhausen (Mittelbau) camp.
    This superficially plausible description is, however, completely wrong. The great majority of those who died at Buchenwald perished during the chaotic final months of the war. They succumbed to disease, often aggravated by malnutrition, in spite of woefully inadequate efforts to keep them alive. They were victims, not of an “extermination” program, but rather of the terrible overcrowding and severe lack of food and medical supplies due to a general collapse of order in Germany during the tumultuous final phase of the war. Along with these indirect victims of the war were many healthy inmates. B.M. McKelway inspected Buchenwald shortly after the U.S. takeover as one of a group of American newspaper editors and publishers. He reported that “many of the hundreds of inmates we saw appeared to be healthy while others suffering from dysentery, typhus, tuberculosis and other diseases were living skeletons.”[17]

    Huge factor, if the allies had not illegally bombed transports of food & medicine to the labor camps the death toll would have been dramatically reduced.
    As for Auschwitz, well it produced a great variety of products, synthetic oil being the most important. There is no proof of ‘gas chambers, there is no proof of ‘extermination of Jews’. Please produce it if you have it, be specific as to how it allegedly occurred and where we can actually see the alleged human remains that are claimed to still be in place.
    http://www.codoh.com
    recommended resources :https://codoh.com/search/?sorting=relevance&q=buchenwald

    https://codoh.com/search/?sorting=relevance&q=auschwitz

    Holocaust Handbooks https://codoh.com/library/series/1187/?lang=en

    • Replies: @Anon
  419. Wally says:
    @Karl

    Karl, in addition:
    The fact that inmates at Auschwitz, upon the advancement of Soviet troops, were given the choice to stay and await the Soviets or leave with the SS is damning to the fake ‘holocau$t’ narrative. Most by far chose to leave with the ‘evil’ Germans.

    Some of Wiesel’s exact words in “Night” are (p. 78):

    “The choice was in our hands. For once we could decide our fate for ourselves. We could both stay in the hospital, where I could, thanks to my doctor, get him [the father] entered as a patient or nurse. Or else we could follow the others. ‘Well, what shall we do, father?’ He was silent. ‘Let’s be evacuated with the others,’ I told him.”

    Elie’s tale in this regard is corroborated by other “survivor” accounts including that of Primo Levi. In Levi’s book “Survival in Auschwitz,” we have his words for January 17th, 1945:

    “It was not a question of reasoning: I would probably also have followed the instinct of the flock if I had not felt so weak: fear is supremely contagious, and its immediate reaction is to make one try to run away.”

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  420. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    If the allies had not illegally bombed transports of food & medicine to the labor camps

    Remarkable. The same guy defending the destruction of Warsaw wants to call the allies bombing supply lines in Germany as “illegal.”

  421. @Anon

    The point is, the mortality rate in the camps soared because of Allied bombing, not a German extermination plan.

  422. @Wally

    It should probably be pointed out that Primo Levi gave conflicting statements on whether prisoners actually had a choice to evacuate with the Germans or await the Red Army. Levi’s own story conflicts with the official account (of any Jew unfit for work being killed), as he was in the infirmary with scarlet fever when the Germans cleared out.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Wally
    , @Alden
  423. Wally says:
    @Anon

    Another Zionist, false and predictable, strawman argument. Your comparison was not the same and you know it. Warsaw was a legitimate military target and it was not ‘completely destroyed’, as I have demonstrated repeatedly.
    Strafing & bombing transports to the camps, which the Allies knew were filled with civilians & POWs, was illegal under international law and greatly increased deaths.
    Simple stuff …. for the honest. http://www.codoh.com
    BTW:
    recommended:

    At Nuremberg, perjurer Blaha said about Dachau in a sworn statement:
    “There were numerous executions by gas, executions by firearms, and by injections, in the camp. The gas chamber was finished in 1944, and I called Dr. Rascher to examine the first victim. Of the eight or nine persons in the chamber, three were still alive; the others seemed to be dead. Their eyes were red and their faces bloated. Numerous detainees were subsquently killed in the same manner.”
    IMT, vol. V, p. 198 (PS-3249).
    But now we’re told that there were no gassings, and THEN we’re told there were “experimental” gassings, all of which contradicts Blaha … the liars can’t keep their stories straight.
    More here: http://codoh.com/library/document/2369/
    http://www.cwporter.com/innocent.htm

    • Replies: @anon
  424. utu says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Prisoners had no choice. Only sick were left behind. The reason for evacuation was very simple: guards wanted to stay close to the prisoners so they could have a justification for being guards of “prisoner workforce important to the war effort of the III Reich” and apparently nobody among the higher ups in Berlin managed to make the only sensible – for the situation – decision which would be abandoning the prisoners and rounding up all the guards and sending them to the Eastern front. The guards were the worst human materiel III Reich could have come up with: cowards, shirkers. Perhaps there were worse like the criminals who were assembled into the murderous Dirlewanger Brigade but at least they were forced to fight on few occasions. But they preferred killing civilians.

    There were cases when Auschwitz guards were occasionally punished for stealing, failing to stop an escape and other derelictions of duty by being put in cells of the infamous Block 11, the same place where many prisoners died and then sent to the front.

    • Replies: @Alden
  425. Wally says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Levi may have been ill, but those who wanted to leave with SS could and most did.
    Levi further blows the storyline by being left alive with thousands of other Jews who could then tell their story to the world.
    Obviously if the Germans had anything to hide they would not have left all those thousands of Jews behind to talk. Not to mention those that were released much earlier.

    fact: Not a single British Bletchley Park intercept of secret German messages to and from Auschwitz and the so called ‘death camps’ ever mention gas chambers, killing Jews, or anything holocaust-like. There are many which do mention transporting Jews out of these labor camps.
    Also note that the outbound train records which were kept have disappeared while the inbound records have not. Who benefits? http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7581
    And then the detailed aerial photos of Auschwitz reveal nothing that was alleged. Some were even embarrassingly doctored. see:
    ‘WWII Auschwitz aerial photos / Roberto Muehlenkamp & bungling Zionist ‘Holocaust Industry’ blow it again’ https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11256
    A quick example of the attempted alterations:
    The Zionist bungler was so bad that he mistakenly drew in faked “movements of people” ‘marching’ on top of a roof. :-)

  426. utu says:
    @Karl

    I have no idea if 6 million Jews were murdered or not – but I know that the people who are trying to decide if they were, will not be impressed by a claim that Buchenwald or Auschwitz were rehab centers.

    Unfortunately we are dealing here with a moron who is doing great disservice to the cause of revisionism of the WWII. The official narrative went too far in many respects chiefly because of Jewish chutzpah and hubris. This allowed the revisionists to score initially very easy points like bringing up inconvenient facts that there was a swimming pool, soccer field, brothel in Auschwitz, that some people were released from the camp, that some people got decent medical treatment, that prisoners could get care packages (250g per day) at some point, that some beatings and brutal treatment stopped after the intervention in Berlin, and so on. This is all true because Auschwitz like many camps was a huge archipelago of labor camps in the most industrial region of Poland to which deported people were sent to work and also people convicted of criminal offenses were sent to do their time through involuntary labor. Some of those criminals were released after they did their sentences. There were many different categories of prisoners. They had different rights and privileges. It is avery complex story that changes from place to place and with time as there were different phase. For example food packages: how much or how many regulations changed over time. There were many factories, mills, mines, a huge chemical plant, refineries and many workshops. It was huge productive enterprise. But people were dying like flies. That’s why huge crematorias were built. Revisionists agree on this. But bringing new prisoners was never a problem for Germans. They could evacuate another Ghetto or round up another Polish or Serbian village under the pretense of partisan activity and so on. The area was safe from Ally bombers until bases in Italy were established in 1944. But the Holocaust narrative claims that there were some sub camps where the extermination was taking place. Chiefly in Birkenau. While the revisionists make some good points about throughput of Krema II and Krema III they did not produce a definitive proof that no gassing was ever done there. It is possible that the official number of circa 1 million dead in Auschwitz is still way too high. But there there were camps that there was no labour needed, no industrial center nearby like Treblinka, Belzec and Majdanek where many transports with people (mostly Jews) were sent. Again the revisionists will get nitty gritty about the method of killing, that the crematoria there could not work, that there is no evidence that witness statements are nonsensical, etc. But the question is what happened to the Jews? Where did they vanish? Were they sent to the East and ended up in USSR and they loved it so much that they stayed there forever? The bottom line is that out of 3,000,000 of Polish Jews only 10% of them can be accounted for after the war. Where are the 400,000 Hungarian Jews? Or what happened to Jews of Thessaloniki or Prague? They did not show up in Israel or in the US or in Argentina but certainly they were gone form Europe. Do you think that Jews would leave their houses and property to the goys and go somewhere just like that? Did they find Jesus? Some Jewish organization like WJC congress are trying to get money out of Poland and other countries for the properties of Jews who did not leave descendants or any family members. Polish government is resisting it arguing that according to European legal tradition a property like that cannot be claimed on the ethnic basis, that WJC or Israel has no legal standing as an inheritor.

    The official Holocaust is moving away from Auschwitz further to the East to Treblinka, Belzec and Majdanek and to the killing fields in Ukraine, Belarus and Baltic Republics where people were mostly machine gunned. Then you will hear from morons like Wally to show them the graves. Some graves can be shown and some not.

    • Replies: @Wally
  427. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    Sorry, pal, but supply lines are a totally legitimate target. Burning down buildings you know are empty is a war crime.

    • Replies: @Wally
  428. Wally says:
    @anon

    Well then, it’s informative to see that you agree that the Allies caused massive civilian deaths for attacking supply lines to sites which the Allies knew had no military purpose, were filled with inmates who had been transported to these camps such as Belsen & Buchenwald.

    But sorry dude, you are utterly wrong, completely uninformed about international law in effect during WWII.
    Such supply lines can only be attacked if there is a clear & obvious military purpose.
    Supply transports to Buchenwald & Belsen at that very late date in the war were clearly not for military purposes, the Allies knew that well in advance.

    Famed US pilot Chuck Yeager also stated that they strafed German farmers in their fields. A massive war crime.

    And then there’s bombing of the Nordhausen camp by the Allies where the deaths of civilians were then said to have been caused by Germans.
    Letter to the USHMM :The Tragedy of the Nordhausen Camp Hospital

    https://codoh.com/library/document/4055/?lang=en

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Anon
  429. Wally says:
    @utu

    To the obviously & laughably fake “Revisionist”, utu:

    I note you have refuted absolutely nothing I have posted. Because you cannot.
    Your big deal seems to be the old illogical canard of ‘where did they go’? I have the answers to that as well:
    J. Graf and the illogical canard: ‘Where did Jews go then?’ / & more

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8272

    Jews went where Jews are.
    If Jews are so sure that millions of Jews were murdered, then why do they ask such dumb questions like “what happened to them?”
    After all, Jews say they went to enormous mass graves.

    So, utu the faker, where are your claimed & excavated enormous ‘mass graves’ to review? Jews say they are still there & know exactly where they are. Oops!

    - If there was ‘a plan to kill every Jew the Germans could get their hands on’ as alleged, then why are there countless numbers of so called “survivor$”?
    - If the alleged ‘holocaust’ was fact, then why are there laws in Europe to prevent scrutiny of it? What kind of “truth” needs to imprison people to prevent free speech?

    We’re talking about an alleged ’6M Jews & 5M others’ … 11,000,000.
    There is not a single verifiable excavated enormous mass grave with contents actually SHOWN, not just claimed, (recall the claim of 900,000 buried at Treblinka, 1,250,000 at Auschwitz, or 250,000 at Sobibor, 34,000 at Babi Yar) even though Jews claim they still exist and claim to know exactly where these alleged enormous mass graves are.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @anonymous
  430. Kat Grey says:

    To deliberately firebomb a city such as the Allies did at Dresden and Hamburg and target civilians, mostly women and children, who consequently were incinerated alive, is a war crime that can have no moral justification whatsoever.

  431. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    Jews went where Jews are.

    That’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever read. I feel more stupid for having read it.

    • Replies: @Wally
  432. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    Well then, it’s informative to see that you agree that the Allies caused massive civilian deaths for attacking supply lines to sites which the Allies knew had no military purpose, were filled with inmates who had been transported to these camps such as Belsen & Buchenwald.

    No, I don’t believe the Allies caused those deaths. I believe the Nazis caused those deaths by having these civilians in custody to begin with. If you kidnap someone and they die while in your custody, you can be legally charged with felony murder. There’s a reason for that. Nor do I agree that the supply lines had no military purpose, unless you want to argue that the Nazis operated a separate train system to move food to the front and than they did to supply food for concentration camps. I’m willing to bet you can’t provide such proof.

    But sorry dude, you are utterly wrong, completely uninformed about international law in effect during WWII.
    Such supply lines can only be attacked if there is a clear & obvious military purpose.
    Supply transports to Buchenwald & Belsen at that very late date in the war were clearly not for military purposes, the Allies knew that well in advance.

    Clear to whom? The Nazis hadn’t surrendered. Therefore, strikes on German supply lines were fair. After all, Germany had fully mobilized its economy in early ’43; as a result, its whole economy was a fair target.

    Famed US pilot Chuck Yeager also stated that they strafed German farmers in their fields. A massive war crime.

    Red herring.

    And then there’s bombing of the Nordhausen camp by the Allies where the deaths of civilians were then said to have been caused by Germans.

    Again, unless there was a legitimate cause for the people who died being in those camps, their blood is on the Nazis’ hands. If such deaths had occurred in American internment camps for Japanese-Americans, I’d say the exact same thing.

    • Replies: @Wally
  433. Wally says:
    @anonymous

    So then, as you have just admitted, I have you yet again.
    You have nothing.

    “If Jews are so sure that millions of Jews were murdered, then why do they ask such dumb questions like “what happened to them?”
    see:
    J. Graf and the illogical canard: ‘Where did Jews go then?’ / & more

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8272


    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @anonymous
  434. Wally says:
    @Anon

    Rather embarrassing, but predictable Zionist logic.
    So you are making excuses for the deaths of countless camp inmates which the Allies knew were in dire need of food & medicine. Deaths that were caused by the Allies actions you blame on Germany.
    I remind you that the Allies held large numbers of Germans, Italians, Hungarians, Romanians, etc., and by your always faulty Zionist logic, if the Germans had bombed those facilities then it would have been the Allies fault.
    And of course you ignore international law, Zionists are special.

    Still waiting for you to show us excavations with contents shown of the Jew alleged enormous mass graves. Jews like you say they know exactly where they are.

    Chuck Yeager admits to what I state and you dodge it.

    The “Holocau$t Industry” in court:
    ‘Please your honor, there really are remains of millions buried in huge mass graves, we know where the mass graves are, … but, but, well, umm, we can’t show the court the human remains. You must trust us, we’re Zionists.’

    “We can force through any lie. It just has to be big enough so that a normal person says, ‘Well that cannot be a lie!’. Then the lie cannot be recognized as such. And the lie has to be repeated continuously. Then it is believed and is powerful because it is the belief in a ‘truth.’”
    - from ‘Propaganda’, by Zionist Jew Edward Bernays

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  435. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    Listen simpleton, the question isn’t asked because we don’t know where they went. The question is asked because you claim they went elsewhere but can’t account for even 1% of them.

    And “Jews went where Jews are” is about as fucking stupid as it gets.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  436. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    So you are making excuses for the deaths of countless camp inmates which the Allies knew were in dire need of food & medicine.

    I don’t have to make excuses for anything. Your beloved Nazis killed innocent people by taking them into custody merely because they were Jewish and then failing to feed them or give them medical treatment. Deal with it.

    Deaths that were caused by the Allies actions you blame on Germany.

    https://www.justia.com/criminal/offenses/homicide/felony-murder/

    I remind you that the Allies held large numbers of Germans, Italians, Hungarians, Romanians, etc., and by your always faulty Zionist logic, if the Germans had bombed those facilities then it would have been the Allies fault.

    Only if those prisoners were held unjustly.

    Here’s an example:

    Anne Frank died in Belsen because she was unjustly in custody of Germany for the sole reason that she was Jewish. Therefore, the Nazis killed Anne Frank under the felony murder rule.

    If a German POW lawfully taken by the British and held in a POW camp died during the bombing of Britain by the Nazis, that’s still the Nazis’ fault because the detention by the British of that POW was lawful.

    Here, in contrast, is an example that would work — if the British kidnapped a 12-year-old German girl and held her in London and then that girl was killed when Germany bombed London, that death would be the British’s fault because she was being held unlawfully and unjustly.

    I know I”m wasting my time explaining this to you because you don’t care about the truth or justice or anything like that. I’m providing it in case anyone else cares.

    And of course you ignore international law, Zionists are special.

    I ignored nothing. You’re just talking out of your ass, as usual.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Alden
  437. Wally says:
    @Anonymous

    Wow, a little boy has gotten excited & peed his pants because he cannot prove what he fantasizes. You & Jews like you say Jews went to huge mass graves which you cannot show us. But somehow, using Zionist logic, it’s on everyone else to explain in detail where they went. Now that is about as stupid as it gets.
    And indeed, you ignore international law which I have cited. After all, Zionists routinely ignore such laws.
    You utterly dodge the information I post, such as:
    J. Graf and the illogical canard: ‘Where did Jews go then?’ / & more

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8272

    which includes:

    https://www.jta.org/1944/02/23/archive/german-lauds-russia-for-joining-intergovernmental-committee-for-refugees

    and:
    Concentration Camp Vital Statistics https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7581
    and:
    “Resettlement to the East”: Thermar’s Jews https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8192
    and:
    German Labour camps – shocking truth decrypts / Jew transits

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7298

    - If Jews are so sure that millions of Jews were murdered, then why do they ask such dumb questions like “what happened to them?”
    - If there was ‘a plan to kill every Jew the Germans could get their hands on’ as alleged, then why are there countless numbers of so called “survivor$”?
    - If the alleged ‘holocaust’ was fact, then why are there laws in Europe to prevent scrutiny of it? What kind of “truth” needs to imprison people to prevent free speech?
    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @anon
  438. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    Wow, a little boy has gotten excited & peed his pants because he cannot prove what he fantasizes.

    You’re clearly only here to hurl abuse. There’s no point in engaging you any further.

    • Replies: @Wally
  439. Wally says:
    @anon

    Ah yes, you are projecting again.
    But indeed, I do accept your surrender.

    tax exempt cash taken in by USHMM, aka: ‘Holocau$t’ Theme Park, for fiscal year 2016:
    $151,826,695.00
    $151,826,695.00

    https://www.ushmm.org/m/pdfs/042717-IRS-Form-990-FY16.pdf

    US taxpayers money to the USHMM in the 2017 budget:
    56,999,500.00

    https://www.ushmm.org/m/pdfs/20160209-fy17-pres-budget-request.pdf

    The ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    see the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

  440. @anonymous

    I’m not a fan of that particular refrain, but the fact is, the official account of what happened at the AR camps is absurd and there is little, if any, evidence (forensic or documentary) to support the claims. Revisionists are under no obligation to fill in the holes (pardon the pun) in the official storyline. I do not know what happened to the 1.3M or whatever Jews sent through the AR camps; I would not be surprised if many of them did indeed perish somewhere in the SU from various hardships (for which the Germans indeed bear some blame). I’m quite sure, however, that they weren’t gassed, buried, exhumed, and burned on open-air pyres.

    • Replies: @Anon
  441. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Don’t you think if more than a million Jews were sent to the USSR that there’d be some record of them somewhere? Because there isn’t.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  442. @Anon

    Any such records would be in Soviet hands, and nothing like open access to these archives exists. At any rate that question really has nothing to do with the believability of the official account of the AR camps.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Anon
  443. Wally says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Anon also conveniently and repeatedly ignores the fact that the outbound train records, which all rail systems were / are required to keep, have been destroyed or hidden away.

    Certainly the Germans wouldn’t have destroyed them while leaving the inbound records.

    The impossible ‘holocaust’ storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that denies free speech and the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.
    And then ask Anon how the alleged, yet scientifically impossible ‘gas chambers’ supposedly worked.

    For a thorough demolition of the alleged Auschwitz gas chambers & alleged Auschwitz homicidal gassing process see analysis at:

    http://forum.codoh.com/search.php?keywords=model&t=10798&sf=msgonly

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @lavoisier
  444. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    But there is open access to those records and has been since 1991. In fact, given the sheer number of population transfers in the USSR during the period, you’d expect to find documentation of more than a million Polish Jews arriving in 1942-43. There’s documentation on the deportations of Kazakhs and Crimean Tatars. There is immense documentation on the deportations of Polish Jews to the Soviet interior in 1940-41in four separate actions. So why no record of the Jews from the Reinhard camps?

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
    , @utu
  445. @Anon

    I would think the answer is too obvious to mention: why would the Soviets reveal exculpatory evidence for the Germans? The “Holocaust” has been a major propaganda coup, and the Soviets could say pretty much anything they wanted about these Jews. Also, since many of them probably did perish in the SU, this would highlight the harshness of Soviet scorched earth policy and their willingness to use civilian (and military) populations as weapons in the war, not exactly something they’d want to broadcast.

    • Replies: @anon
  446. lavoisier says: • Website
    @Wally

    The impossible ‘holocaust’ storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted.

    I do not know whether the conventional narrative about the holocaust is true or not. But I know for certain that making it a crime to investigate this narrative is strong evidence that there is something untrue about that narrative.

    The European nations that have criminalized such inquiries should be ashamed for not respecting freedom of speech and freedom of conscience.

    Jewish manipulation and control can only work with the willingness of the gentile to sell out their people and their nation to their Jewish masters.

  447. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Before the USSR had even fallen, they’d admitted to Katyn. It makes no sense that now, with an entirely different state, with different borders, different leadership, a different form of government, etc., would persist in hiding something like this.

    In terms of the number of Soviet citizens killed by their own government or during WWII in general, a million or so Jews is a drop in the bucket. They certainly don’t deny killing some of the Jews deported in 1940-41, so why deny the rest? You’re not making any sense.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  448. @anon

    Comparisons with Katyn are absurd. The Germans conducted a proper forensic investigation with outside observers, something the Soviets never permitted at the AR camps. Everyone knew the Soviets did it, they finally came clean about it. And 20K Polish officers are a lot different than e.g. 900K Jews at Treblinka. The propaganda value of lying about the latter far outweighs the cost of admitting to the former. As anyone who has dealt with Russians here knows, the WW2 victory cult has a firm grip on the Russian national mind, and thus includes the myth of unique German evil. They would never confront this issue honestly.

    • Replies: @anon
  449. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Sorry but the comparison with Katyn is perfectly apt, and the Soviets allowed a forensic investigation at Treblinka before the war was even over, so you don’t know what you’re talking about. Moreover, everyone knows, with the exception of a small but vocal group of crackpots, that the Nazis killed those Jews. You just don’t make a compelling case.

    • Replies: @L.K
    , @Wally
  450. utu says:
    @Anon

    There is immense documentation on the deportations of Polish Jews to the Soviet interior in 1940-41in four separate actions.

    What Polish Jews? Most deportations were that of ethnic Poles.

    • Replies: @L.K
    , @Wally
  451. L.K says:
    @utu

    If you weren’t the dishonest little lying cunt that you are, and had actually studied holocaust revisionist literature, which your idiotic posts show you have not, you would not even pose this type of ‘question’.

    Walter N. Sanning, in his book ‘The Dissolution of East European Jewry’, shows that many Jewish( and even non-Jewish) sources, during and after the war spoke of the mass deportation of 100s of thousands of Polish Jews into the Soviet interior in 1940( and later). A few examples:

    …The Polish Government-in-Exile, too, declared the Soviets deported 600,000 Jewish refugees from western Poland in the spring of 1940.
    The Canadian-Jewish statistician, J. Kulischer, asserted that Stalin evacuated 530,000 Jews – 500,000 from eastern Poland and 30,000 from the Baltic countries.17

    The Universal reported that the Joint Distribution Committee – a large international Jewish refugee aid organization – initiated a relief program in early 1942 for 600,000 Polish-Jewish refugees in Asiatic Russia.19 …

    In connection with the inhuman transport to the east, the Joint Distribution Committee wrote in its Bulletin of June 1943:20 “From a fifth to a third of the number of refugees died […] whoever did not see the thousands of graves, mostly of children, cannot understand.”

    Obviously the Soviets were not interested in discussing any of this then, neither the Russian government today, since they had/have an interest to ascribe all excess deaths of Jews, or any Soviet nationals for that matter, that occurred during WWII, to the Germans.
    Currently, organized Jewry itself has no interest in talking about it either, given that it greatly weakens the fraudulent tales of NS extermination of Polish Jews.

    • Replies: @utu
  452. L.K says:

    Holocaust revisionist author Arthur R. Butz on Polish Jewry absorption into the Soviet Union( a lot of others ended up in Palestine and the ZUS, and NO, the numbers, particularly of those who entered the US, are not possible to know for various reasons I won’t go into now):

    Germany and Russia partitioned Poland in 1939, the eastern half and thus a large portion of the Polish Jews thereby coming under Soviet rule. These Jews were the objects of a Russian resettlement program whose broad features have been described by Korzen in an article published by the Israeli Government. …

    Briefly, what happened is that “hundreds of thousands” of these Jews were dispersed throughout the Soviet Union in an evacuation program which commenced in June 1940. At first, many were sent to labor camps, but after September 1941, a serious effort was made “to convert the refugees into Soviet citizens and prevent their leaving the Soviet Union.” The dispersion was as far as Central Asia and even to the Far East. Details are difficult to develop, and Korzen pleads for more interest in research into the matter. Many became Soviet citizens, some trekked back to Poland after the war and in many cases proceeded on to Israel. Korzen remarks that the Jews who remained in Poland as leaders of the new Communist regime were put under pressure “to change their names to purely Polish-sounding ones as well as to keep their Jewish origin secret.” Some eventually arrived at places such as Persia and India via Shanghai. The Joint Distribution Committee of New York maintained contact with the refugees in the Soviet Union during the war and assisted their movements after the war.

    It is also known that a large number of Jews, given by one source as 300,000, fled from western to eastern Poland in 1939 when the Nazis invaded the former.415 Thus, a significant fraction, perhaps as many as a third, of the Polish Jews had been moved beyond reach of the Germans before the outbreak of war between Russia and Germany in June 1941.

    As we noted in Chapter 1 (p. 36), Reitlinger( Jewish msm holocaust historian) concedes that the Jewish population of the Soviet Union might very well have exceeded the prewar figure, on account of the addition of Polish (and Baltic and other) Jews.
    He regards the Jewish Observer estimate of 500,000 Polish Jews who elected to remain in the Soviet Union as “very conservative,” and concedes huge and insuperable uncertainties in this connection. …

  453. L.K says:
    @anon

    It is actually ridiculous and you are clearly just another sad little liar.

    Well known holohoax ‘historian’ and Auschwitz ‘expert’(eyes rolling), Robert Jan van Pelt, in his ‘The Case for Auschwitz: Evidence from the Irving Trial’, p.5, writes:
    “The evidence for the role of Treblinka, Belzec, and Sobibor[...] is much less abundant(than Auschwitz).”There are very few eyewitnesses, no confession that can compare to that given by Höss, no significant remains, and few archival sources.

    The same Jan van Pelt has however admitted in an interview to the Canadian STAR, 27 December 2009, that

    “We have no material or forensic evidence to support eyewitness reports of gassings( at Auschwitz)…
    Ninety-nine per cent of what we know we do not actually have the physical evidence to prove
    .

    So, the evidence for Auschwitz is next to nothing – plus there is abundant evidence refuting the hoax – but the evidence for the Aktion Reinhardt camps is, according to Pelt himself, even much less than at Auschwitz, which is just about zero. It should be noted that the holohoax is essentially based on lie-witness, ahem, eyewitness testimony, either captured SS camp personnel or former inmates.
    Höss testimony is complete nonsense and the reason is that the man was tortured into ‘confessing’.

    Famous holohoax “historian”, the miserable shabbos Goy, Christopher Browning, in his ‘The Origins of the Final Solution: The Evolution of Nazi Jewish Policy’, September 1939-March 1942 (University of Nebraska Press and Yad Vashem :-) , 2004), p.544 note.169, writes:“…the testimonies of especially Höss and to some extent Eichmann are confused, contradictory, self-serving, and not credible.”

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @anon
  454. Wally says:
    @anon

    This is gonna be good.
    said:
    “Soviets allowed a forensic investigation at Treblinka before the war was even over …”

    Then please show us the this “forensic investigation”.
    Show us site verifiable excavations which display the remains of an absurdly alleged 900,000 Jews that Jews say are buried there.
    Do it, I challenge you. I’m waiting.

    ‘Everyone knew’ that witchcraft & sorcery were fact as well.

    You’re in over your head.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  455. Wally says:
    @utu

    recommended:

    J. Graf and the illogical canard: ‘Where did Jews go then?’ / & more

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8272

    which includes:

    https://www.jta.org/1944/02/23/archive/german-lauds-russia-for-joining-intergovernmental-committee-for-refugees

    and:
    Concentration Camp Vital Statistics https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7581
    and:
    “Resettlement to the East”: Thermar’s Jews https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8192
    and:
    German Labour camps – shocking truth decrypts / Jew transits

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7298

    http://www.codoh.com

  456. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    Well, guys, since Wally has jumped in, I’m outta here. He’s an abusive jerk who doesn’t debate in good faith. If you want a piece of me, you’re going to have to try elsewhere.

  457. utu says:
    @L.K

    According to data from Soviet archives opened during Yeltsin time USSR deported 320,000 citizens of Poland in 1940-1941 from Polish territory occupied by Russia after 17 Sept. 1939. There were four stages of deportations:

    First Deportation, Feb. 1940: 140,000 (70% Poles, 30% Belorussians and Ukrainians)

    Second Deportation, Apr. 1940: 61,000 (mostly families of the deportees from the First Deportation. 80% women and children)

    Third Deportation, June 1940: 78,000 ( mostly refugees from Western Poland under German occupation, 84% Jews, 11% Poles)

    Fourth Deportation, May-June 1941: 38,000 ( 52% Poles)

    These numbers indicate that no more than 100,000 Jews were deported. The number agrees with numbers obtain after Polish citizen in the USSR were amnestied after German attack in June 1941.

    Now this quote from Sanning:

    The Polish Government-in-Exile, too, declared the Soviets deported 600,000 Jewish refugees from western Poland in the spring of 1940.

    can’t be traced to any source. No reference. See here: The Crazy World of Walter Sanning (Part 6) http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2007/10/crazy-world-of-walter-sanning-part-6.html

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @L.K
  458. Wally says:
    @L.K

    Nice post. The rout is on.
    http://www.codoh.com

    911 and the Holocaust: Cognitive Dissonance
    by Jim Rizoli
    Rizoli emphasizes in everyday language the impossibiity of the claims

    https://codoh.com/library/document/5038/?lang=en

  459. Wally says:
    @Anon

    Anon predictably surrenders as he ignores his abusive language.
    Only Zionist Jews get upset when they attack someone and that someone fights back.

    How do you get rid of a Zionists?
    Simple.
    Ask them to back up their ridiculous claims.

    The ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    see the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here:

    http://codoh.com

    No name calling, level playing field debate here:

    http://forum.codoh.com

  460. @Wally

    Indeed. Those Soviet investigative commissions are akin to the proverbial fox guarding the chicken coop.

  461. Wally says:
    @utu

    So then, utu, surely you can show us excavations of all the alleged enormous mass graves that Jews like you say exist and that Jews like you say they know exactly where they are.
    We’re waiting. Please proceed.

    I do note you dodged my numerous links previously posted.
    And these on Sanning blow away your link:

    https://codoh.com/search/?sorting=relevance&q=sanning

    ex.: https://codoh.com/library/document/2103/?lang=en
    excerpt from The Dissolution of Eastern European Jewry’: An Exchange
    By Arthur R. Butz , W. D. Rubinstein , Walter N. Sanning

    “Is he joking? Either he overlooked or he chose to overlook the evidence I presented for such widescale emigration. Examples: (a) the testimony of U.S. Assistant Secretary of State Breckinridge Long before a congressional committee to the effect that the U.S.A. admitted about 580,000 refugees until 1943 – most of them Jews; (b) the large immigration in Palestine in the Thirties and early Forties (almost 300,000); (c) the huge Jewish population increases in Latin America (almost 200,000) and Western Europe until the war (over 100,000). It is precisely because I anticipated charges like those of Dr. Rubinstein that I based by analysis almost exclusively on Allied, Zionist and pro-Zionist West German sources. If he believes that the evidence given by the wartime U.S. Assistant Secretary of State, the Institute of Jewish Affairs, the American Jewish Year Book, official census publications or the pro-Zionist Institute for Contemporary History in Munich and other similar sources is inadequate, then he should explain what he considers adequate. In Germany at any rate, the Holocaust-enthralled courts have used the latter institute’s testimony as prima facie evidence.”

    • Replies: @utu
  462. L.K says:
    @utu

    data from Soviet archives opened during Yeltsin time

    Totally reliable of course…

    Now I see that you have linked to the most pathetic holocau$t hoaxters that I’m aware of, the anti-revisionist crackpots from holocaustcontroversies blog.

    No msm names from the holohoax industry itself ever associate with these clowns.

    But you have fully revealed yourself.

  463. No msm names from the holohoax industry itself ever associate with these clowns.

    Au contraire. Below is a list of links, by no means comprehensive, of places where mainstream historians have cited us:

    https://books.google.com/books?id=Mji6CwAAQBAJ

    https://books.google.com/books?id=MztdAwAAQBAJ

    https://books.google.com/books?id=A0QlDwAAQBAJ

    https://books.google.com/books?id=M9Uj6u6b-ZIC

    https://books.google.com/books?id=6rvlCAAAQBAJ

    https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-319-04057-8_5

    http://www.jstor.org/stable/26266041?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

    http://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPage?handle=hein.journals/laba37&div=47&id=&page=

    This does not include multiple scholarly publications by Drs. Terry and Harrison and myself, all of whom hold advanced degrees. A fourth of our members will defend his doctorate within the year.

    • Replies: @Wally
  464. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @L.K

    If you want to debate me that badly, we can arrange to debate in another forum, without the intrusions of Wally.

    • Replies: @utu
  465. utu says:
    @Wally

    Examples: (a) the testimony of U.S. Assistant Secretary of State Breckinridge Long before a congressional committee to the effect that the U.S.A. admitted about 580,000 refugees until 1943 – most of them Jews; (b) the large immigration in Palestine in the Thirties and early Forties (almost 300,000); (c) the huge Jewish population increases in Latin America (almost 200,000) and Western Europe until the war (over 100,000).

    The number given by Breckenridge is generally not believed. But regardless of what it is it is not inconsistent with emigration numbers from Germany after 1933.

    Overall, of the 522,000 Jews living in Germany in January 1933, approximately 304,000 emigrated during the first six years of Nazi rule and about 214,000 were left on the eve of World War II. Of these, 160-180,000 were killed as a part of the Holocaust. On May 19, 1943, only about 20,000 Jews remained and Germany was declared judenrein.

    Emigration to Palestine was taking place before WWII and was encouraged by Germany and Poland. What are the actual numbers? Whether it is 100k or 300k as Sanning wants does not make any difference.

    The (100,000?) immigrants in Western Europe were caught up under the German jurisdiction in 1940 after the fall of France, Netherlands and Belgium, so what is the logic of bringing it up? Many of them were deported to the Eastern Europe. Most Jews deported from France (75k) were not French citizens. In 1938 still before the war Germany deported circa 20,000 Polish Jews back to Poland.

    Anyway, these numbers are not inconsistent with the orthodox Holocaust stories. They can impress only morons like you and L.K.

  466. utu says:
    @anon

    The only difference between L.K and Wally is that the former does not give links to codoh? L.K quotes from the same sources as Wally w/o giving a link. Both of them are just peripheral devices like printers of the codoh database. There is not much intelligence required to perform this function.

    • Replies: @L.K
  467. Every war since WWI has been avoidable. After WWI the League of Nations initiated a Disarmament Treaty that for all intents and purposes completely disarmed Germany. It would not have taken much effort to enforce the treaty but bickering among the leaders ensured that the necessary follow-up was not maintained, hence Adolph Hitler. All the loss of innocent life cries to heaven for vengeance and the warmongers who involved us in WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan are guilty of high crimes against humanity. Will justice ever be served?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  468. Wally says:
    @Andrew E. Mathis

    This would be the same Andrew Mathis that has been routed at CODOH, time after time.

    See the threads below where Andrew Mathis, admittedly aka: Thames Darwin has posted and utterly lost, some examples of the beat down:

    Alleged & laughable “mass graves” according to T. Darwin / Andrew Mathis

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9414

    ‘Andrew Mathis on Dachau, Majdanek, Auschwitz, Treblinka’

    http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9228

    Mathis who also posts as ‘Thames Darwin’, gets shot down:
    Anecdotal evidence & “holocaust survivors”

    http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9238

    holocaust’ denial article by Andrew Mathis debunked here’

    http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=2816

    ‘Prof. Mc Nally dissects HHP’s Andrew Mathis’ bogus article’

    http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=284

    ‘Holo. Hist. Proj.’s Andrew Mathis on Zyklon scent removal’

    http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=2499

    ‘Green, Mathis refuted / cyanide: lice, humans, & more’

    http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=267

    ‘Believer org. spokesman, Andrew Mathis, demolished in debate’

    http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=254

    ‘Holo. Hist. Proj.’s Andrew Mathis attempts damage control’

    http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=2498

    ‘Email from Andrew Mathis (The Holocaust History Project)’

    http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=1526

    ‘holocaust’ History Project to unveil section on Treblinka’

    http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=280

    Industry’s Andrew Mathis & Roberto Muehlenkamp claim patch of dirt holds remains of 100,000 at Ponar, Lithuania

    http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11345

    • Replies: @Andrew E. Mathis
  469. Alden says:
    @Anonymous

    I agree with you about the people who died from illness and natural causes in the concentration camps. The prime obligation of a prison to its prisoners is to keep them alive and nourished enough to keep a normal slender weight.

    By that I mean a 5’8 man at least 140 and a 5’4 woman at least 100, not 80 pounds.

    The prisoners died of dysentery, typhus, typhoid and cholera because the camps had insufficient toilet facilities and facilated fleas, lice, cockroaches and bedbugs; all of which spread diseases especially to malnourished already sickly people.

    N.European winters require warm clothes in winter. Working outside in 25F weather in cotton dresses and cardigans kills. Standing for an hour for the morning and evening counts in 25F wearing cotton dresses kills.

    Anne Frank kept a diary which her father retrieved after the war. The diary written by Meyer Levin later published as Anne Frank’s original diary is a fraud.

    That fraud doesn’t negate the fact that the Germans killed her by taking her from a place where she was adequately nourished, clothed and kept reasonably warm to a filthy freezing cold camp where she was starved and died because of the filthy conditions the Germans created.

    She was 13 when arrested. What possible reason was there for arresting her and other children and wasting the manpower to keep her in a concentration camp?

    Whether they were purposely executed or died of malnutrition and filthy diseased conditions, the Germans killed their prisoners.

    • Agree: David In TN
    • Replies: @Wally
  470. Alden says:
    @Anon

    Installing proper sewers, flush toilets and clean water for bathing and decent heat in winter should have been done before any prisoners arrived at the camps. Had that been done there would not have been such a dire need for medicine.

    Ever read about the high death rates in the union and confederate civil war POW camps? Same causes as the German concentration camps and English concentration camps during the Boer war; no sanitary toilet facilities.

    Crowding of course means diseases spread easily. One person with TB arrives in a crowded barrack and pretty soon everyone in that barrack has TB or diphtheria or Scarlett fever or measles and every body has dysentery because of lack of proper sewers

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  471. Wally says: • Website
    @Alden

    According to international law the prime obligation of the Allies was to spare needless deaths of civilians. By strafing and bombing supplies & medicines being carried to civilian camps, that the allies knew were in dire need & of no military value, is a massive Allied war crime.
    Anne Frank’s example is utter proof that Auschwitz was not an extermination camp. Frank was sent to Auschwitz and later transported west where she died of disease that was prevalent throughout Europe at that time.
    Anne Franks supposed “diary” is a joke, as fake as a three dollar bill. Recall the ballpoint pen. LOL
    Here are 4 different samples of handwriting in it. Hardly the same people.Sample 1: 29 April 1940:
    Anne was almost 11. Source: New York Times, 22 July 1988, p. A1.Sample 2: 30 July 1941:
    Anne was a little more than 12. Source: De Dagboeken van Anne Frank, Amsterdam; RIOD, 1986, p. 126.Sample 3: 12 June 1942:
    Anne was exactly 13. Source: Journal de Anne Frank, Calmann-Levy, 1950.Sample 4: 10 Oct 1942:
    Anne was a little more than 13. Source: Journal de Anne Frank, Livre de Poche, 1975.
    more:

    http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v03/v03p147_Faurisson.html

    and:

    http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v19/v19n6p-2_Faurisson.html

    and:

    http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v09/v09p-97_Faurisson.html

    Anne Frank’s Diary Gains ‘Co-Author’

    http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9924

    and:
    ‘Is the Diary of Anne Frank Genuine?’

    http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5051

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Alden
  472. Alden says:
    @Anonnymoose

    There is an old French saying, “ Don’t listen to what he says, look at what he does”

    Looking at what Hitler did, a reasonable man would believe Hitler was a communist traitor all along.

    20 years after Germany lost a 2 front war against Russia in the east and Britian and France in the west he did it all over again.

    Similar thing happened in the 30 years war. N. Germany was destroyed by Sweden from the north and S Germans from the south. I mean reeeallllly Look at a map.

    The soviet Jew communists got Eastern and Central Europe in their claws due to Hitler the loser.

  473. Alden says:
    @jacques sheete

    Bolshies are the worst because they have been in power for 100 years while Hitler and the nazis were in power only 12 years.

    And the bolshie Jews have been running the USA since 1956 Brown vs Topeka.

    • Agree: jacques sheete
  474. Alden says:
    @utu

    Sounds like the choice a reasonable man would take.

    • Replies: @utu
  475. Alden says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    They were unfit for work because of starvation, disease and dysentery. Shoulda kept them healthy.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  476. @Alden

    You, in my opinion, have no idea what a war is.

    • Replies: @Alden
  477. @Alden

    That really has nothing to do with the point I was making.

    • Replies: @Alden
  478. @Wally

    Well, I’m done here, I guess. I have attempted to respond to this post in kind three times, and each time, the moderators here have refused to post it. “Wally” here has been twice censured in the past for his posting style, but here he is again, baiting other posters, even those, like myself, who specifically have sought to avoid interacting with him at all.

    If any of you Holocaust deniers are ever wondering why nobody will debate you or take you even remotely seriously, this kind of behavior is why. Wally is emblematic of a problem with Holocaust denial — it’s an enterprise run by Jew haters whose sole purpose is to get back at the schoolyard bullies who tortured them as children.

    • Troll: L.K
  479. Wally says:
    @Andrew E. Mathis

    Yawn. Leave it to Zionist Andrew Mathis, who literally harasses free speech activist Revisionists. They fight back & he screams foul like a, well, whining Zionist.

    Mathis, you debated at CODOH and lost, as the links that I posted clearly attest.
    The CODOH Forum does not allow name calling, which is your preferred tactic. The CODOH Forum allows no dodging of challenges for authentic documents and physical evidence. You and those like you have failed to answer these challenges on ALL occasions. In fact you could still debate there, but have been so embarrassed that you must now make excuses.

    I see there is this thread for anyone to complain:
    ‘name a specific “holocaust” topic censored / banned here

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7322

    Heretofore you have not / cannot show that forum anything that you wish to debate has been censored or banned.
    You are living a lie and just can’t handle the cognitive dissonance that your belief in the impossible has been confronted with. You & those like you use the old & no longer effective ‘antisemite’ canard as a substitute for facts. You are weak, a liar, and a coward.
    Revisionist activists are here to stay and there’s nothing you can do to stop us. Deal with it.
    http://www.codoh.com

  480. L.K says:
    @utu

    There you go again, just lying and obfuscating… not surprising, since you are on record here at Unz admitting that lying is ok, if it furthers one’s goals.

    Apparently, one can only use the msm holohoax literature to talk about the holocau$t, because quoting from revisionist books is unacceptable to the sad little liar, utu( who never read any revisionist books).

    That would be great from this propagandist’s perspective, since then, there would be no debate at all, even the unofficial one that takes place behind the curtains of censorship!
    You are a clown without the costume, utu.

    If the revisionist’s positions are as weak as you idiotically suggest, then the msm holohoax “historians” would welcome open debate and the powerful organized Jewish lobbies that back them and which have also strenuously worked to make holo revisionist work illegal, or at least, nearly impossible, would also fully welcome an open clash of ideas, in the certainty they would destroy holo revisionism. Instead, all we get is ferocious censorship in various forms.

    • Replies: @utu
  481. @Andrew E. Mathis

    If any of you Holocaust deniers are ever wondering why nobody … take you even remotely seriously, this kind of behavior is why.

    That more correctly and appropriately applies to the holocaust cultists, not the holocaust truthers, or “deniers” as you call them.

  482. utu says:
    @Alden

    Sounds like the choice a reasonable man would take

    To transcend you ulterior motives and self-interest is very unreasonable. Scoundrels on the other hand usually are very reasonable.

  483. utu says:
    @L.K

    the revisionist’s positions are [...] weak

    I agree with you, revisionist positions are weak. Revisionists made some inroads on technicalities, by straw man arguments and out of context argument in the initial phase of their activity only because due to chutzpah and hubris of the keepers of Holocaust narrative who simply were sloppy and overextended. They did not expect to be challenged and produced trivialized version of Holocaust for a general public for political reasons. In this version for example Auschwitz was just an extermination center. This version was convenient for Jews because it excluded other non-Jewish victims. But Auschwitz was an extensive complex of labor camps with very high mortality through which several hundredths of thousands prisoners went through and there was no intention to kill them though some were executed as punishment. But most of them were meant to be used as labor. But then there were also mass executions of Jews in 1943/44 who were not registered in the camp but taken straight form trains to gas chambers after very ad hoc selections. Sometimes a significant number of “deportees” were side tracked to camp if there was a need for labor force which often it was particularly after or during typhoid epidemics. Sometimes something stopped in the process like when a special very provisional additional sub camp was built for Jewish women where 40k were housed. There was high mortality there and the women were not used as labor and later 17k of them were sent to camps in Germany but they were not gassed. Why? I do not now. Like for instance Ann Frank was sent out of Auschwitz. Is it suppose to be a proof that there was not extermination of Auschwitz. Not every Jew was killed. The fact that there were brothels and a swimming pool, that you could receive food package daily are not a proves that there was no extermination.

    You will accept one day that revisionist can’t win this argument. Revisionists win arguments only against the straw men they create, like Auschwitz was an extermination camp. But this was never claimed so. Read Szmaglewska’s Smoke over Birkenau which she wrote in July 1945 after escaping form transport out of Auschwitz (so called death march) in January 1945. She was a prisoner there since 1942. The narrative of Auschwitz was only forming. It was not high jacked by Jewish, Zionist Holocaust Industry yet. This high jacking happened in 1960′s and particularly after the Six-Day War in 1967. Most of her book is about a survival in the camp. But she writes about gassings as well.

  484. utu says:
    @Andrew E. Mathis

    Well, I’m done here

    What, are you prima donna or what? If you good show it but if you can’t contribute get lost w/o whining.

    Wally is a moron but he will back off when he recognizes he has no argument. The he hopes you go aways that all is forgotten and then he comes back like a broken record and start again. No integrity, bad faith but mostly severe case of idiocy. I am sure Nazis would consider him euthanized.

  485. utu says:
    @Wally

    “Anne Frank’s example is utter proof that Auschwitz was not an extermination camp. Frank was sent to Auschwitz and later transported west where she died of disease…”

    Correct Auschwitz was not just an extermination camp. It was predominately a labor camp. But there was also an extermination going on in 1943/1944.

    This is form earlier comment:

    Sometimes something stopped in the process like when a special very provisional additional sub camp was built for Jewish women where 40k were housed. There was high mortality there and the women were not used as labor and later 17k of them were sent to camps in Germany but they were not gassed. Why? I do not now. Like for instance Ann Frank was sent out of Auschwitz. Is it suppose to be a proof that there was not extermination of Auschwitz. Not every Jew was killed. The fact that there were brothels and a swimming pool, that you could receive food package daily are not a proves that there was no extermination.

  486. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Simply Simon

    The western powers wanted a Germany strong enough to stand up to Communist Russia but not strong enough to threaten its smaller neighbors.

    Well that’s just not possible. It was one thing or the other.

  487. @utu

    But there was also an extermination going on in 1943/1944.

    And even into 1945, which is what Dresden was about, i.e., extermination of Christians. Like what went on in the USSR prior to and while it was supported by Frankie and Winnie.

    We shall not get excited. We shall kill. If you have not killed at least one German a day, you have wasted that day … If you cannot kill your German with a bullet, kill him with your bayonet. If there is calm on your part of the front, or if you are waiting for the fighting, kill a German in the meantime. If you leave a German alive, the German will hang a Russian and rape a Russian woman. If you kill one German, kill another — there is nothing more amusing for us than a heap of German corpses.

    -Ilya Ehrenberg, Red propagandist, WW2

    https://www.ihr.org/jhr/v08/v08p507_Weber.html

    The Germans were up against some super sick bastards. And so are we.

    • Replies: @utu
  488. EugeneGur says:
    @utu

    Correct Auschwitz was not just an extermination camp.

    Absolutely. It was officially designated as Category II, or a hard labor camp. However, there were plenty of death as well as deliberate gassing here as well, you are correct. Mauthausen, on the other hand, was officially Category III, i.e. extermination camp, a camp “of no return”. And yet not everyone died there, because Mauthausen also served as a distribution center for a large network of labor camp throughout Austria.

    Our revisionist friends are too simpleminded.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @jacques sheete
  489. Wally says:

    Except the claims are scientifically impossible & there are no human remains to be seen that are alleged. Laughable, actually
    recommended:
    Holocaust Handbooks, Documentaries, & Videos

    http://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?main_page=1

    - For another thorough demolition of the alleged Auschwitz gas chambers & alleged Auschwitz homicidal gassing process see analysis at:

    http://forum.codoh.com/search.php?keywords=model&t=10798&sf=msgonly

    Ditto for Mauthausen, plus:

    [MORE]

    Regarding the Physical Evidence at the Mauthausen Concentration Camp (Austria)

    (15) The gas chamber at concentration camp Mauthausen (in Austria) has no locks on the doors, and no holes or fittings where locks may once have been. The doors can be opened from inside or outside. How could human beings have been gassed in this room?
    (16) The peepholes in the two Mauthausen gas chamber doors have no hemispherical metal grid covering the glass, as would have been necessary to prevent the victims from knocking out the glass and causing a gas leak. There are no holes or fittings where a grid might once have been. Doesn’t Pressac write extensively about the need for such hemispherical grids? Doesn’t Pressac recount survivor testimony regarding the need for such grids during a homicidal gassing? With no grid, what stopped the inmates from knocking out the glass, using either their hands or the ample shower piping in the chamber?
    (17) Why are there no Zyklon B traces, or blue stains, in this chamber?
    (18) The hole in the ceiling of this chamber, through which the Zyklon B crystals were supposedly poured, is small enough to be blocked by the inmates hands, and the ceiling is low enough for them to block the hole. How could the Zyklon B be effectively poured in?
    (19) There is a large drain in the floor of this room. There are no holes or fittings where a cover for this drain might have been attached. What would stop the victims from brushing the Zyklon B crystals down this drain?
    (20) Unlike the Dachau “fake shower room”, which indeed has fake shower heads (which were directly screwed into the concrete to a maze of water pipes which run the length of the ceiling AND across the walls. Doesn’t this room resemble a real shower room? How do we know it wasn’t?
    (21) What would have been the wisdom of construction a fake shower room with such a maze of pipes running across the ceiling and walls? Wouldn’t the victims have torn these fixtures down? Doesn’t Pressac write about how the victims in the Auschwitz gas chambers would destroy the electrical fixtures and anything else in the chamber? Wouldn’t the pipes serve as perfect weapons with which to smash a hole through the unguarded peepholes (not to mention the doors have no locks)? And if the prisoners didn’t wish to block the Zyklon B induction hole with their hands, the showers heads would’ve fit inside the hole nicely. Why wasn’t the “fake shower heads screwed directly into the ceiling” method (a la Dachau) employed here?
    (22) Considering the absence of Zyklon B traces, locks on the doors, peephole covers, and a viable means of pouring in the Zyklon B, and factoring in the floor drain and the water pipes and genuine shower heads in this room, why can’t we assume this was a genuine shower room?

  490. Wally says:
    @utu

    So you dodge the proof that the Anne Frank “diary” is fake. Revealing.

    Your problem is that you are all talk. You recite your Zioni$t propaganda as if it were fact. Why? Because Jews like you benefit big time from the scam and care nothing about truth.
    Jews:
    the bride at every wedding, the corpse at every funeral

    Now, time to grow up and read some science:

    The Rudolf Report
    Expert Report on Chemical and Technical Aspects
    of the ‘Gas Chambers’ of Auschwitz

    http://vho.org/GB/Books/trr/index.html

    here, I’ll spoon feed you a video:
    Chemistry of Auschwitz / Birkenau

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @utu
  491. utu says:
    @Wally

    So you dodge the proof that the Anne Frank “diary” is fake.

    The authorship of Ann Frank’s diaries is as important as the authorship of Don Quixote or Iliad. The content of the diary has no bearing on what was happening in Auschwitz or Treblinka or in the train to Auschwitz.

    What the diary is supposed to prove or disprove if it is authentic or fake? That some Jews were not hiding from occupational authorities in Amsterdam? To the central question of Holocaust Ann Frank’s diary is utterly irrelevant.

    If I could demonstrate that some letters of Jefferson were written after his death would this prove that he did not sign the Declaration of Independence or that American Revolution did not happen or that Jefferson did not exist? What is really your point? What did you bring up the issue of Ann Frank’s diary? Think before you answer. Please, show at least once some sign of intelligence, Wally.

    • Replies: @Wally
  492. utu says:
    @EugeneGur

    Mauthausen, on the other hand, was officially Category III, i.e. extermination camp, a camp “of no return”.

    Mauthausen was not an extermination camp. It started as a regular prison and it was transformed into the largest forced labor enterprise in the III Reich:

    From Wiki:

    The production output of Mauthausen–Gusen exceeded that of each of the five other large slave labour centres: Auschwitz-Birkenau, Flossenbürg, Gross-Rosen, Marburg and Natzweiler-Struthof, in terms of both production quota and profits.[28] The list of companies using slave labour from the Mauthausen–Gusen camp system was long, and included both national corporations and small, local firms and communities. Some parts of the quarries were converted into a Mauser machine pistol assembly plant. In 1943, an underground factory for the Steyr-Daimler-Puch company was built in Gusen. Altogether, 45 larger companies took part in making Mauthausen–Gusen one of the most profitable concentration camps of Nazi Germany, with more than 11,000,000 Reichsmark[note 3] in profits in 1944 alone (EUR 144 million in 2018).

    The efforts of revisionists forced the keepers of the orthodox Holocaust narrative to get their act together and stop being sloppy by mixing less of WWII and post WWII propaganda (particularly that of Soviet provenience) into that narrative. But still there are a lot of distortions, lies and hype in the official narrative and how it is used and to what purpose. You seem to be like the one who did not get the most recent memo and keep repeating what one could find in Soviet Pravda. The memo said that Mauthausen was not the extermination camp. Got it?

    The problem with the revisionists is that they do not know where to stop and they keep insisting that there was not extermination at all. Their objective is not to revise the history by correcting it to be more truthful but to deny it. Their ulterior motive is to absolve Germany of responsibility. Just like Stalin apologists motive is to absolve Stalin of his crimes and his responsibility for for helping Hitler to start the war in 1939. I do not see much difference between you and Wally. Neither of you is interested in finding the truth. You want to keep the narrative as you have learned in a Soviet school and he wants to destroy it and replace it with its opposite.

    • Replies: @EugeneGur
  493. @EugeneGur

    However, there were plenty of death as well as deliberate gassing here as well…

    Produce credible evidence or you’re parroting 75 year old Bolshie propaganda, but that’s typical of simple minded buffoons.

    Can’t you make up your own silly stories?

    • Replies: @utu
  494. utu says:
    @jacques sheete

    Dresden was about, i.e., extermination of Christians

    It can’t be proven that it was about Christianity. Some Catholics believe that the reason Nagasaki was bombed because it was the largest center of Catholicism in Japan. This belief can’t be supported by any evidence either.

    There is no question that annihilating a city full of civilians is as un-Christian as it can get.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
    , @Anonymous
  495. Wally says:
    @utu

    Your fellow Zionist propagandist clone, Alden, brought up Anne Frank, Bozo.

    And you dodge my debunking of your laughable anti science Auschwitz & Mauthausen ‘gas chambers’.

    So where’s your claimed huge mass grave contents to see while we’re at it? You’re all bluff.

    You have nothing but propaganda and you know it.

    Mother and I used to get up at four in the morning [at Belsen], to avoid the queues of people waiting to use the shower block about and hour later. We undressed and showered our bodies with ice-cold water. The only soap we had was a barrel of honey-coloured liquid soap, manufactured out of human flesh from the bodies of people shot by the SS on the transports. Many times we wondered: ‘Could this be my brother, my sister, another relation?

    - Gena Turgel nee Goldfinger, I Light a Candle, London: Grafton, 1987, p. 102.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Alden
  496. utu says:
    @jacques sheete

    He is right. There was deliberate gassing in Auschwitz.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @L.K
    , @jacques sheete
  497. @utu

    It can’t be proven that it was about Christianity.

    Well what would you require for proof? The Bolshies weren’t exactly known for their “Christian” kindness towards anyone. Rather it was typical Talmud-grade insanity and they sure tore the Christians in the USSR a new one.

    The war was likely about world control by the usual rich sickos and it would amaze me if any of them were religious.

    The gassing stories sound to me like the work of hysterical, pathological, sadistic liars, which is typical of the real perps of the wars.

    What’s especially sick is the obvious fact that the scum have used the US for their own purposes and have been in the process of destroying the culture (such as it was) for almost 8 decades at least, and they get away with it with complete impunity. No wonder the parasites hold us in utter contempt.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @L.K
  498. Wally says: • Website
    @utu

    Where’s your proof?
    Where are the alleged massive human remains to see?
    How did the impossible ‘gas chambers’ supposedly work?

    Why have you dodged Max Planck Institute Chemist Germar Rudolf’s The Rudolf Report? http://vho.org/GB/Books/trr/index.html

    Why have you dodged this video?
    Chemistry of Auschwitz / Birkenau

    • Replies: @utu
  499. utu says:
    @Wally

    So you see that the question about Ann Frank’s Diary authenticity is irrelevant to the issue of veracity of Holocaust narrative. Good.

    Now you brought up the human soap. The human soap is no longer a part of the official Holocaust narrative. It became a meme right after the war. Though it is still a part of the pop-culture Holocaust narrative. There is a lot of nonsense in pop-culture.

    Unfortunately the sacralization of Holocaust allowed (unscrupulous? demented?) individuals like Gena Turgel to go around and spread nonsensical stories w/o being challenged because nobody dares to challenged a Holocaust survivor.

    BTW, at Auschwitz a regular soap was available and inmates were able to purchase a better one from a store. I am not sure if they were allowed to have it sent in packages from outside.

    BTW, Russian inmates at Auschwitz had the highest mortality. This is attributed to the fact that they were not getting packages unlike inmates form European countries. While the regulations where changing over time at some point one could get one package (250g) per day. The rationale for small but frequent packages was that authorities wanted the food consumed immediately so there was no food hoarding to prevent vermin infestation. Now and then there were shakedowns during which all stored food was confiscated.

  500. utu says:
    @jacques sheete

    You might be right but you will never know it. Your beliefs are empirically not testable. Basically you have created or more likely spiraled into a Weltanschauung where things are true or not based on your beliefs only. I am afraid you do not belong to the Latin (Western) civilization anymore:

    [Feliks] Koneczny claimed that in the Latin [Western] civilization, ethics is the source of law. If some laws are not ethical, then they are changed. Government is judged on the basis of its adherence to ethics. The law is of dual nature, divided into public and private spheres. Religion is autonomous, independent and separated from the state. Individuality, self-rule and decentralization are highly valued. Knowledge is empirical.

    Paradoxically you might be closer to:

    The Jewish civilization considers the law most important. The law is the source of ethics. The law cannot be changed. However, the same law can be differently interpreted, which leads to ethical relativism. Similarly to the Brahmin or Hindu civilization, it is sacral, with religion playing a central role. According to Koneczny, one of the elements of Jewish civilization is a belief in the superior role of one nation or race. Communist states, despite their atheism, are also products of Jewish civilization

  501. utu says:
    @Wally

    I am not dodging. I am ignoring.

    Chemistry: the required concentration of Zyklon B to kill a human being is several orders of magnitude lower than what is used for killing lice.

    Remains: (1) there was no serious search for them and (2) ashes to ashes…

    It is amusing that you seem to take these arguments compiled by Codoh that seriously, that you do not see how hollow they often are. You remind me of a Jehovah Witness. They also bring up arguments very sincerely w/o a deeper understanding of what they are talking about.

    Or perhaps you do not take it seriously because you are paid according to how many links to Codoh you manage to post in one day before being chased away. Are you operating from India?

    • Replies: @L.K
    , @Wally
  502. EugeneGur says:
    @utu

    You want to keep the narrative as you have learned in a Soviet school

    I am way past the school age. And your psychological exercises as to what I do or do not want are besides the point. Usually, ad hominem arguments are used when none other come to mind.

    Mauthausen was not an extermination camp. It started as a regular prison and it was transformed into the largest forced labor enterprise in the III Reich

    One does not exclude the other. Besides, the camp evolved from its beginning in 1938 till its end in 1945. As I did say above, it was the major distribution center for forced labor, and indeed it was, particularly later when Germany got short of workers due to the losses at the front and could no longer afford to do indiscriminate killing of potential slaves.

    Designation as category II (Stufe III), the only camp of that category, doesn't mean everybody was murdered but many were. Many prisoners arrived to the camp with designation RU (return undesirable/Rückkehr unerwünscht). Ever heard of K-prisoners? Many more were simply let die without the need for any special effort.

    I understand these complexities are hard for your simple-minded approach to fathom, but do try.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @jacques sheete
  503. L.K says:
    @jacques sheete

    Hey Jacques,

    ‘utu’ is merely a lying little troll.

    This POS, who is on record at Unz stating that lying is ok if it advances one’s goals, then goes on to attack others for their alleged lack of integrity!!!

    Total scumbag.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  504. L.K says:
    @utu

    Yes, you are dodging… trolling… and lying.

    Your post is pure sophistry.

    BTW, there were several attempts at the AR camps to locate the gigantic mass graves, human remains and gas chambers, all failed. You are just lying through your teeth, as usual…

    The following is a 65.000 crowd at a London concert. At Treblinka, a small camp, depending on holohoax author, there should be graves that contained the remains of between 10 to 14 times that number. Feel free to pick up a shovel and try to locate them… the holohoaxters and the communists have failed to do so for over 70 years. Same for the other camps.

    • Replies: @utu
  505. L.K says:
    @utu

    No, there was not.

    Since Holocaust bigwigs and Auschwitz “experts”, like Pressac and Van Pelt, could not and cannot prove any homicidal gassings at Auschwitz, you, an anonymous lying troll on a net forum, obviously cannot either.

    Other anti-revisionist historians have also admitted the lack of evidence for the gas chamber propaganda;

    Prof. Faurisson:– In 1996 the leftwing French historian Jacques Baynac, a staunch anti-revisionist since 1978, ended up admitting, after due consideration, that there was no evidence of the Nazi gas chambers’ existence. One could not fail to note, wrote Baynac, “the absence of documents, traces or other material evidence” (Le Nouveau Quotidien de Lausanne [Switzerland], September 2, 1996, p. 16, and September 3, 1996, p. 14).

    There is real reason for the ferocious censorship around the official holocaust story, it’s a house of cards.

    • Agree: jacques sheete
    • Replies: @utu
  506. Wally says:
    @utu

    What is “hollow about asking to see the remains of an alleged 6M Jews’ & 5M others’?
    Imaging trying to push this impossible 11,000,000 murders in a legit court of law.

    The “Holocau$t Industry” in court:

    ‘Please your honor, there really are remains of millions buried in huge mass graves, we know where the mass graves are, … but, but, well, umm, we can’t show the court the human remains. You must simply trust us, we’re Zionists.’

    said:
    “Chemistry: the required concentration of Zyklon B to kill a human being is several orders of magnitude lower than what is used for killing lice.” A laughable lie.
    Germar Rudolf, Max Planck master chemist:
    “the minimum amount of Zyklon B to be introduced in these rooms would have been in the order of magnitude of ten times the amount normally used for delousing procedures”
    The false argument, “it takes more cyanide to kill insects than it does humans, hence low HCN residue in the alleged gas chambers” is further refuted by Germar Rudolf & others here:
    Green, Mathis refuted / cyanide: lice, humans, & more

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=267

    said:
    “Remains: (1) there was no serious search for them and (2) ashes to ashes…” Another lie: There have been several attempts which showed us nothing, recall: Sturdy-Colls, Haimi, & Kola – much more at http://www.codoh.com
    Cremation as alleged would yield countless thousands of tons of human ash and the alleged enormous pits that they are supposedly still buried in (like the alleged 900,000 of Treblinka) could easily be found, in fact Jews say they can point to them. Also note that many allegedly known huge mass graves are not claimed to have been cremated at all.

    • Agree: jacques sheete
    • Replies: @utu
  507. utu says:
    @EugeneGur

    One does not exclude the other.

    One has to be careful with language. Extermination like the one allegedly occurring in Treblinka where people where killed right after their arrivals and the de facto extermination via harsh conditions and treatment like in Mauthausen are two different phenomena. If we are allowed to call Mauthausen an extermination camp as you insist then we may also call many Gulag camps as extermination camps yet neither of them nor Mauthausen were like Treblinka. Also Mauthausen was not like Auschwitz in which extermination seem to took place on similar scale and in similar manner like in Treblinka. Jews were not sent en masse to Mauthausen to be killed there right away. Prisoners of Mauthausen were brought there to work even if their ultimate fate was to die. It was the most profitable German labour camp. Prisoners were not forced to do pointless jobs like in 19 century British penal system. When prisoners arrived they were deloused and various measures were taken to prevent epidemics and premature death of the prisoners and they had infirmary were some prisoners were treated and some actually got cured.

    doesn’t mean everybody was murdered but many were – statements like these are empty and thus always true and false at the same time. How do you define murder in KL conditions? Give me the number of executions by whatever means like shooting, beating to death or gassing? And then what was the average stay in the camp of a person who was executed? And how this number compares to the average lifespan in camp?

    I am way past the school age. – I have never suggested that you were young and immature with open and plastic mind. Quite the opposite: an ossified mind that is incapable to reverse the indoctrination (of Soviet provenience most likely) it underwent.

    • Replies: @EugeneGur
  508. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @utu

    There is no question that annihilating a city full of civilians is as un-Christian as it can get.

    Caedite eos

  509. utu says:
    @L.K

    65,000 x 10 x 3kg=1950 tons of ash

    The Tennessee Valley Authority (TVA) dumped up to 1,000 tons of coal ash every day into a wet pond near the plant, slowly amassing a waste-cake 60 feet high.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coal-ash-130-million-tons-of-waste-01-10-2009/

    I think you can fit 1950 tons of ash in one (or two) olympic swimming pool. Or go to Tennessee if you have problem visualizing it.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  510. utu says:
    @L.K

    I said it before that you and Wally, let me use your phrase here, two “anonymous lying trolls on a net forum” are using Jehovah Witness argumentation method by dipping into the CODOH bible. The difference between you two is that Wally gives the links to CODOH. Neither of you seem to be capable to judge for themselves the meaning, weight and validity of prepackaged and predigested arguments you find there. The CODOH motto seems to be “By morons for morons.”

    Actually, I must take back the lying part because lying implies cognitive ability to tell the difference between what is true and what is not true. Clearly you are lacking this ability.

  511. @utu

    You might be right but you will never know it. Your beliefs are empirically not testable.

    I’m probably right, and I’m comfortable with that. My question is why you feel compelled to comment about it.

    Being the great epistemologist that I “know” myself to be, I suspect that we humans and humanoids don’t and can’t know much at all, and even if we did know something most of us wouldn’t know what to do with the knowledge.My bet is that we would almost invariably use it to screw things up even more.

    It’s all kool, ain’t it?

    PS: I’m praying for another deluge.

  512. @utu

    The Jewish civilization considers the law most important.

    The statement as it stands is BS; without defining the term, “law,” it’s worse than useless; it’s dangerous.

    As for the Jewish civilization, I see little evidence that they’ve ever been civilized in any sense of the term, and most certainly the JINOs have never been civilized. And they’re famous for continuously breaking laws and “covenants” anyway, so who cars what they claim?

    What is a “jew” anyway?

    PS: They reportedly claim to be special and “chosen” and whatnot, but I see little to no evidence for that, but plenty of evidence to the contrary. That’s especially true for the fake Jews, i.e., the Ashkenazim and other non-Semitic atheist pretenders and frauds.

  513. @EugeneGur

    I am way past the school age.

    Biologically, almost certainly. Mentally, hardly.

    Usually, ad hominem arguments are used when none other come to mind.

    No doubt that’s why you initiated such on your entrance to this thread. It also accounts for the fact that nothing you’ve said was subsequently taken seriously by me. Your comments, in fact, are only good for mocking.

    You know nothing.

  514. @L.K

    Hey Jacques,

    ‘utu’ is merely a lying little troll.

    Apparently on this subject that’s all too true. It pains me because (s)he’s put me onto some good info in the past.

    There is a lot of sophistry going on from that source, and it is sad to behold.

  515. @utu

    He is right. There was deliberate gassing in Auschwitz.

    I wouldn’t doubt that the commies did any gassing after they invaded the place.

    That lying bunch of scum is well known for saying anything and everything( even mutually contradictory things) against everyone else.

    Any gas undoubtedly came from their patulous and copius cloacas.