“Guernica”

A reasonable-sounding revisionist account of the Guernica bombing by a respected scholar:

https://carolynyeager.net/guernica-politics-propaganda

From an article based on interviews of participants and surviving documents of the Luftwaffe—specifically an unpublished history of the Legion Condor from the year1 940—by Alfred de Zayas 1, published in the Journal of the Bundeswehr in 1974, we learn the following:

Guernica was on the front line and not an open city. It was heavily defended by six battalions of Basques and Santanders. An armament factory was inside the city and other Red Army facilities were in the immediate vicinity.

An air attack at the bridge and road crossing east of Guernica was ordered. All Condor orders were strict that cities must be spared, and especially churches. (Knowing this, the “Rojas” (Reds) stored ammunition in churches, blowing them up when they couldn’t get it out). Only in special cases were military targets in cities permitted to be attacked.

Nine aircraft dropped a total of 7950 kg of bombs, but no hits at the bridge were observed because visibility was very poor. The reason for the poor visibility was fire and smoke from the blasting and setting on fire by the Reds, and possibly the international brigades, ahead of the air attack. The relatively primitive targeting devices used at that time were also responsible for non-military objects being hit.

Endnotes:
“Guernica im Lichte neuerer Untersuchungen” (Guernica in Light of Latest Research), by Alfred Maurice de Zayas, Wehrforschung (WF), June 1974. De Zayas is a distinguished author, researcher and expert on international human rights.

Looking around the net, I found this from Stanley G. Payne’s book, The Spanish Civil War :

The most notorious, widely publicized military event of the war –the bombing of Guernica, a small Vizcayan town of 5,000 and the site of traditional Basque political ceremonies – occurred late in April 1937 during the first phase of the northern campaign. The ensuing blaze burned most od the city to the ground, and about 150 people were killed.

TheNationalists had categorized Guernica as a military target because it was scarcely more than ten kilometers from the front, housed three battalions of Basque troops and a munitions factory (producing, inter alia, incen-diary bombs somewhat similar to the kind that destroyed the city), and lay beside a bridge across which part of the Basque forces would have toretreat. Preparation of seven bomb shelters indicated that local authorities also judged that Guernica would likely be a target. One of these shelters was hit directly, considerably increasing the death toll.

Contrary to assertions, the Guernica operation was not unique in theactions of either side. The Republican navy and air force had subjected cities to indiscrimate bombardment from the first day of the war, and in September 1936, Azana’s newspaper Politica had boasted of the damage done to targets “inundated with iron and fire.”

I left this comment at Hoffman’s site, but of course he’s too cowardly to have published:

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Hoffman Is Clueless One, Regarding Dear Unc’ Adolf, satanism, Central-Banking, Etc.
(Apollonian, 13 Feb 18)

Hoffman tells us in his article, here, “Hitler was almost always outfoxed….” But the real question is WHAT does our Pelagian heretic, Hoffman, pretending to being Christian, Christianity being worship of TRUTH (= Christ, Gosp. JOHN 14:6), know about “foxiness”?–or anything?

For Hoffman certainly knows nothing about economics, or capitalism, or money and banking–which subjects he babbles about, as in his travesty of a book, “Usury in Christendom…,” which “usury” Hoffman gives no definition or exposition for exact original meaning, failing to note “usury” actually has no definitive or specific understanding fm the ancient sources.

For Germany was essentially attacked by the Jew-led central-banking power (see Mises.org for expo), Britain having made an offensive alliance w. Poland, Poland having threatened war w. Germany over German re-uniting w. German city of Danzig. It was Britain and France who first declared war upon Germany, never forget, beginning the second world war.

For Germany had lost WWI, never forget, only 21 yrs earlier, Germany then dis-armed for heavy weapons, the armed forces reduced to 100,000, the nation looted by the Allied criminals, the people literally starved by the Brit. blockade into signing the Versailles Treaty and enslavement. For the Western plutocratic satanists led by Jews and “bankers” had to continue to protect, cultivate, and subsidize their latest Bolshevik monster they’d created in Russia, having mass-murdered millions of Christians, Soviet Russia the proto-type and enforcer for world gov. dictatorship they were busily constructing.

————————[END OF PART ONE; SEE BELOW FOR PART 2]———————

——————————[HERE'S PART 2 TO ABOVE]————————-

And yes, Hoffman, life is very much war, humans being sinners, and regardless of “Neanderthals,” it’s well-known method of war to threaten retaliation in kind for whatever one may complain of one’s enemies, like bombing of civilians.

So what’s Hoffman’s real object for this latest article of his?–just more of his usual moralistic virtue-signaling and one-upsmanship, pretending, like the Pelagian hereticalist he is, to knowing all about moralistic “virtue,” lecturing others–like he evidently does for his own, poor, victimized children.

For it’s Hoffman and hubris-filled Pelagianists like him who are the real problem of our present society consumed in satanism and satanic, extreme subjectivism, pretending to what doesn’t exist, like child’s “good-evil” and a perfectly “free” God-like will. Hitler was actually a great hero bravely fighting this horrific and ever-expanding satanism, and he was magnificent for naming and confronting the Jew.

But Hitler only failed for the larger cultural issue of satanism in general, founded in subjectivism, hubris, and moralism, for which Jews are the natural leaders, but themselves don’t originate, only taking advantage and manipulating it, due to their natural and thematic superior collectivist cohesion and organization, for their own purposes–as we see in this day, having become masters by specific means of that amazing criminal enterprise of fiat-currency (legalized counterfeiting) and central-banking–which subject-matters Hoffman hasn’t the slightest grasp or understanding.

I cannot fathom the obvious vitriol flowing through the pair of comments “appollonian” posted. I have read Michael Hoffman’s work extensively and consider the essay on the tragedy of Dresden and related mass murders of people one of his most heart-felt and powerful. A scientist by training and predilection, I cannot engage competently the several “Pelagian” references and the following nasty attack:

“So what’s Hoffman’s real object for this latest article of his?–just more of his usual moralistic virtue-signaling and one-upsmanship, pretending, like the Pelagian hereticalist he is, to knowing all about moralistic “virtue,” lecturing others–like he evidently does for his own, poor, victimized children.”

I do wonder why the moderator — this comment thread is moderated, I presume — allowed the two postings by “appollonian”, apparently his|her first two on this site, and specifically motivated by attacking Mr. Hoffman. I hope others who frequent this site can express similar sensibilities.

Liar Who Lies Backs-Up Hereticalist, Hypocrite

What’s this, “alan”?–u “can’t fathom”?–well, we’re not surprised as u’re not too bright are u? And what?–u can’t “engage” Pelagianism?–pretending to child’s “good-evil”?–and u can’t go to Wikipedia or use the search engine?–but who’s fault is that?

Evidently, u’re soooo brainlessly incompetent as to beggar belief, eh?–and we see u’re just another liar, advocating the same sort of censorship that Hoffman practices at same time he hypocritically complains about it so often as he does in his putrid passive-aggressive, pathetic, and self-pitying manner.

But those are just my opinions, “alan,” buddy, and I back them up w. substantial pts., info, and facts which u pretend are “vitriolic,” liar as u are, though u’re entitled to ur opinions too, eh? So people can read ur lies and my facts and see how it all reflects on ur hero, Hoffman.

Might makes right! Hitler himself said the Germans deserved to be obliterated as punishment for losing

Marcus: just another Jewwy liar who, naturally, omits to providing any ref. to backing-up his lies, lying. And Germans haven’t “lost,” sucker–the war against satanism continues, didn’t u know?

The first I ever read of the firebombing of Dresden was in the novel by Kurt Vonnegut Jr. (yes, I know, that old lefty) “Slaughterhouse 5″. I was shocked that none of that had been covered in any of the history courses of the 20th century.

As it turns out, Kurt Vonnegut Jr. was a POW in Dresden and survived the bombing and the resulting firestorm that killed over 100,000 civilians. He included his own witness of the bombing raids in the main character. The novel was made into a movie:

No he did not.
You have no proof or you would produce it.

Three points.

1. Dresden had no military value. There were no military factories or bases, which is why it had never been bombed and was thus favored by refugees.

2. The Allies had clearly won at this point and expected final victory in a few weeks.

3. It doesn’t matter what the Nazis had done because we are supposedly better people.

For those unfamiliar, the British bombed at night, which was safer, but couldn’t see any targets. The city was the target, which they bombed with firebombs to start fires and burn up everyone.

This was clearly a war crime, as reluctantly admitted by SecDef Robert McNamara.

And this continues to this day, as the US military destroyed the Syrian city of Raqqa. Mercenaries that the USA/Israel/Saudi axis of evil paid to invade Syria had gone rogue and were relabeled as “ISIS”. After lots of bombing, ISIS agreed to the the American offer and allowed these terrorists to leave Raqqa peacefully.

Americans never see this reality on their “news” networks.

He might have been a trifle stressed when he said that but probably it was calm, deliberate assessment if you think about it.

If you don’t want to be burned to ashes, don’t fuck with the Jews.

Churchill and his top military circle were not Judaic, yet they set afire the medieval cities of their German cousins, who only two generations before had comprised the royal blood within the House of the German-speaking Queen Victoria.

War brings out the UGLY in every group. But, the Brits didn’t want to kill so many Germans as part of some grand strategy. Instead, the war got really ugly, and it brought out the vengeful and sadistic side of human nature. In other words, had there been no war between UK and Germany, the Brits never would have wanted to kill all those Germans. Once a fight breaks out, a kind of rage takes over. People lose all sense of proportions and want to do maximum damage. This is why boxing has referees. Without them, it can easily lead to murder in the ring.

Unlike Brits who just lost their heads in the bloody melee, German policy in the East wasn’t a case of violent overreaction. There was a radical plan of genocide and slavery on an unprecedented scale. Not only did the Germans attack first and not only were they willing to do ANYTHING to defeat the USSR, but the planned ‘peace’ would have meant whole extermination of tens of millions of Russians and enslavement of the rest.

So, while I agree that the Dresden bombing was a war crime and shouldn’t have been committed, I still see it as an evil act among many evil acts in a war that brought out the worst on all sides. It was the fury of war that made the Brits act devilish.
In contrast, Hitler had a devilish plan even in peacetime prior to the war and would have acted devilishly further had he won in Russia. His ‘peace’ plan for Russia would have been 1000x more frightening that what UK did to Germany and even what Soviets did to Germany, which was abominable.

It is time for the West to fully acknowledge the great suffering of German people in WWII(and it’s time to stop treating the Shoah as a neo-religion than as a tragic event in history), but too many revisionist types moan and groan about dead Germans but show no such sympathy for all the dead Russians, Poles, and Jews. At every turn, they apologize for Hitler’s actions or minimize the brutality carried out by Germans while making a huge deal about German suffering and victimhood.

Also, Hoffman’s mention of German as racial ‘cousins’ gives the game away. The hidden logic of revisionists is really this: Anglos and Germans were racial cousins, so they should have allied together and wiped out Russians as the inferior Slavs with tainted blood. Read between the lines in Buchanan’s UNNECESSARY WAR and you get the same sick demented logic.

In fact, the whole mess could have been avoided if Hitler and Nazis had respected Poles and other Slavs as fellow whites and Europeans. The truly big failure was not Anglos failing to recognize Germans as their cousins but Germans having failed to recognize Slavs as racial cousins too.

Hitler-apologists will say he invaded Russia to defeat communism when, in fact, his grand plan was not about ideology but about biology. His way was death or enslavement of all Russian Slavs as a bunch of helots.

Hitler himself said the Germans deserved to be obliterated as punishment for losing.

I bet he never anticipated that Angela Merkel would be the one carrying out the sentence!

Excellent article.

I was just in Dresden this past summer for the first time ever. I’m glad I went! Unlike the other major cities of Germany, Dresden has now completely restored its beautiful Baroque downtown–brick by brick, cobblestone by cobblestone. Easily the most beautiful major city in the country.

Churchill was a contemptible cuck who failed at what he professed to care about most: the preservation of the British Empire. That war ended up reducing the UK to colony status under Washington. Nice going, Winnie the Dupe!

As Hoffman alludes, the cult of Churchill (and that other scheming warmonger, Franklin Roosevelt), along with the endless praise and veneration of the of the ‘Good War,’ is–together with the magic 6 million figure–yet another article of faith in the new, post-war religion of Holocaustianity. All of these fake war-time national ‘heroes’ need to be exposed for what they really were: traitors and proto-globalists.

Just one minor cavil with Hoffman:

American civilization in 2018 is not worthy of the name. We have the illusion of a civilization, which we cherish for our own aggrandizement and nostalgia.

Our own aggrandizement? C’mon, Michael! You know good and well (((whose))) aggrandizement this “illusion of a civilization” is really run for.

Guernica was a commie stronghold. Too bad their ideas survived and came to fruition in America

Wanna come to a dinner honoring the 25th anniversary of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum 25th anniversary?

This one is the monstrosity in DC, not one of the numerous others littering the country. The Jews renamed the street it’s on the Raul Wallenberg Place.

It’s only $500 a ticket although becoming a sponsor or patron is encouraged and essential for Jewish social climbing purposes.

Barbara Streisand and husband are on the committee along with Blacks, Ziffrens, Sabans, Sherry Lansing and the rest of the billionaires who own the Democrat anti White party

It’s at the Beverly Hilton March 1. They are charging a lot for the tickets, but they are doing it on the cheap at the dowdy and déclassé Beverly Hilton.

The British had spy/observers in Guernica. They reported that the communists in Guernica set off the explosions. But the Jee media has claimed for 80 years that it was the eeeevil Germans and their reactionary Catholic allies who did the damage.

His propaganda painting is a big treason Picasso was so highly regarded mid 20th century, he was a communist and the intellectuals adored him because of that.

This was a much-needed reminder of a forgotten and important chapter in WWII. Thank you, Michael Hoffman.

History, we must recall, is written by the victors. In the most egregious cases, blame is assigned exclusively to the losing side in war; even when political complexities, unintended consequences, and moral ambiguity are major forces at play. This describes WWII as well as the modern view of WWII. Today’s official story boils down to this: The freedom-loving Good Guys fought and defeated the nasty evil Bad Guys. We won!

Yet Churchill, Stalin and Roosevelt all collaborated and orchestrated numerous war crimes during a preventable conflagration that could have been stopped years before Dresden was incinerated. And had a negotiated settlement been reached (Hitler wanted one) countless inmates who ended up dying of disease and starvation in German concentration camps could have been saved.

But the glorious ‘Allies’ demanded Unconditional Surrender. Germany refused.

Knowing what the British and Americans did to Germany following WWI (starvation blockade, exclusive blame and punishment imposed on Germany at the Treatise of Versailles) Hitler chose to fight on.

Today, the blood-soaked tragedy of WWII has been boiled down to a comic book. Americans are fed a restricted diet of propagandistic, repetitive headlines with two major themes: Psychopathic Nazi Evil vs. Heroic Jewish Virtue. Little else matters. It was the ‘good war’. Never again!

Yet the wars continue. And Zio-America is starting them.

As for historic memory, the civilian deaths at Dresen probably exceed those at Hiroshima. But Dresden gets no coverage. Its victims receive little notice or sympathy. Why the difference between Hiroshima and Dresden?

Jews.

Imperial Japan did not target Jews. Hitler did.

Meanwhile, the full dimension of human death, misery and suffering during WWII has been downgraded, censored and abridged. What matters most now is The Holocaust.

Onward Christian soldiers. On to Damascus! On to Tehran! On To Moscow!

Apollonian makes important points — Hoffman goes off the rails when he wanders into Neanderthal territory.
Or rather, when he wanders into Neanderthal territory and finds there Hitler, guilty of “retaliating” to repeated provocations, but fails to identify as Queen of Neanderthal/primitives the demon Lipstadt. That creature was not attacked with a sharp enough spear.

Hoffman’s ostensible memorial to Dresden’s victims distracts itself, it puts a spanner in its own gears.

But the basic sentiment is appreciated: RIP Beautiful Dresden. You are not forgotten.

A vile thing to say, Marcus, doubtless a mindless echo of Allied propaganda. Unless you can provide a solid source & context??

I invite anyone to read
Victor Klemperer, ‘I will bear witness, A diary of the Nazi years, 1942-1945’, New York 1999
Klemperer was a jew, living in Dresden, who was treated badly, but never deported, he was married to a ‘full German’ woman.
The couple survived the bombing, but Klemper’s description of what he saw is more than horrible, people still living, burning, fosfor.
From a military point of view the bombing was nonsense, the war was in fact over, the old city was bombed, that had no industries at all.
The estimated number of deaths over time went down all the time, no count was done at the time, there were more urgent things to do.
I long wondered about the why, from bits of information here and there I now suppose it was to impress Stalin with the military might of the west.
Interesting is that Klemperer never mentions gas chambers, even more interesting is that he writes that he understands why Hitler persecuted jews, with explanation.

deserved to be obliterated

But he was under a lot of stress

It was a funny reading. The story how one Western animals have killed the others.
For me both deserved to be eliminated. If evil Red Army did it probably now I could have understood it. But it did not, stupid Russian even feed Germans after soldiers came to Berlin.
Really stupid. Now western bastards blaim them for everything.

It was Shrove Tuesday, 1945 in the magnificent German art city of Dresden, which was packed with helpless Christian refugees fleeing the Red Army of the Stalinist USSR.

And nobody cries of them.

Those innocent people (“helpless Christian refugees”) were mothers, sisters and childs of those innocent killers who came to Russia, killed really innocent people and commit such crimes that normal humal even can’t imagine. Who cries of them except us?
There are a number of bastards here at UNZ who claim that 26 millions of Russians were killed by Stalin and Jews associated with him, not innocent Germans. And those horrible Russians raped millions of innocent NAZY women.

After seeing it I just stop regretting of killed German civilians. What about anlosax killers? They did it everywhere – Vietnam, Korea, Yugoslavia, Iraq, Syria … wherever they come in and where nobody can fight back. And they won’t stop themselves.

When author switched to Jewish question, I’ve stopped reading. I’m not approving Jews with their “holocaust”, but who cares about near 30 millions of Russians?

Hypocritical bastards.

Please don’t waste our time with any more of your outrageous comments, the rest of us here seem to be able to appreciate this article for what it was.

The holocaust in Dresden, lasting two days and killing at least 100,000 people

There obviously has been a concerted effort over recent decades (in Germany as well) to reduce the death toll to more “manageable”levels, for example:

Dresden bombing death toll lower than thought

. . . But a special commission, comprising 13 prominent German historians, has now revealed that the previous figures were exaggerated or derived from dubious sources.

Instead, they concluded that no more than 25,000 people died during the attacks, debunking the claims of many revisionist historians who wished to compare the bombing to the Holocaust.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/onthefrontline/3123512/Dresden-bombing-death-toll-lower-than-thought.html

Are you aware of any credible counter-studies that support higher figures?

Your movement now only generates revulsion, you folks aren’t even interesting any more.

IMHO, the only sure thing about war are the unintended horrific consequences. Those battle
plans fall apart as soon as the other side fights back.
The only rule is kill or be killed.

Non-combatants like the artistic community of Dresden always seem to suffer the worst.

More recent examples are all the negatives
resulting from the Bush/Clinton (G. W. Bush and Hillary) acts of whacking various strong men such as Saddam Hussein and Mr. Kadhafy (sp?)

We can see with hindsight that both killings had no justification. How many civilians dead in Iraq? How many migrants thru Libya to rape European girls? What has followed to fill the power vacuum is no good for anyone.

I saw no mention of the firebombing of Coventry by the Germans in 1940. Perhaps an oversight.

I don’t have time right now for a detailed comment, but the “100 000 dead” figure imo isn’t credible, I find the arguments for 25 000 to 30 000 dead persuasive (which to be sure is bad enough, I’d definitely regard the bombings done by the RAF in late 1944/early 1945 as war crimes at least in a moral, if not legal sense). People interested in the subject should look at Richard Overy’s recent “The bombing war”, he gives convincing reasons why casualty figures for WW2 bombing in Europe tend to be inflated more generally (this also applies to German bombing btw, claims that the Luftwaffe killed 500 000 Soviet citizens are exaggerations by a factor of ten or so).

Looks like somebody got their knickers in a twist when Hoffman dare use the copyright-protected Holocau$t™ to describe GOYIM getting burnt alive in an event which actually happened.

The bottom line is that while Dresden, Hamburg, Tokyo, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and hundreds of other Allied crimes against humanity are all well documented and open to further discussion and questioning, the Jewish holohoax alone remains an undocumented accusation made by less than a dozen eye witnesses, with stiff prison sentences being handed out to Europeans who dare question the alleged event. So please explain to me again how Jews don’t control the Western World.

“At this juncture we pause to contemplate the bloody treason that was at the heart of Churchill’s soul: he wanted as many of his own English civilians in London to die as possible, so he could point to their deaths as the justification for a total war against Germany, and he succeeded in his objective.”

Churchill was an evil man, down to the very marrow bone. It began long before WW2.

Many – almost all of them WASPs or Jews – celebrate him as the greatest leader of the 20th century.

Hilarious spoof but the main point is near the end: “If the powers that be decided, for example [sic!], that Russia needed to be fire-bombed, given sufficient pretext our “Conservatives” would do it all over again in the name of “civilization.” The blood of the innocent in Moscow and St. Petersburg would signify no more to the Hillsdale College type of crusaders than the charred bodies of the civilians in the apocalyptic wreckage of Dresden. For example! Just a random example that came into the author’s head! Amusing aside: Putin was actually stationed in Dresden as a KGB officer.

“A thousand years of national and religious wars in Europe had not managed to wreak the destruction which Mr. Churchill and U.S. President Franklin Roosevelt directed against the cultural treasure houses of western civilization, in cities like Dresden. They tossed a match into Dresden as casually as a drooling meth addict would torch an apartment building for revenge on the landlord who had evicted him.”

The first sentence is true, if the subject is restricted to physical destruction of cities. But the religious and cultural destruction was necessary to getting us the French and Bolshevik Revolutions and the 2 World Wars.

The second sentence is a masterpiece of imagery.

Hitler-apologists will say he invaded Russia to defeat communism when, in fact, his grand plan was not about ideology but about biology.

When Hitler invaded Poland in 1939, he had already spent the prior 10 years battling, defeating, and preventing Jewish-led Red Revolutionist gangs from doing to Germany what they had already done to neighboring Russia. Contrary to Jewish propaganda encouraging people to assume otherwise, Adolph Hitler’s primary mission in life was defeating Communism where it existed. Small wonder then that a Jewish propaganda mill continues doing everything in its power to convince the world what an evil man he was, when, in reality he was the best friend the Caucasian race and Western Civilization had, and probably ever will have.

Sorry, OT but where did you go to school? If you did that is.

I really tried to read your comment but found it to be in some sort of code. I suppose it was meant for some secret agent of some sort so carry on.

“If the powers that be decided, for example, that Russia needed to be fire-bombed, given sufficient pretext our “Conservatives” would do it all over again in the name of “civilization.” The blood of the innocent in Moscow and St. Petersburg would signify no more to the Hillsdale College type of crusaders than the charred bodies of the civilians in the apocalyptic wreckage of Dresden.”

Why would the ‘conservative’ Evangelicals have very little, if any, qualms about the US firebombing of civilians in non-English-speaking European countries?

They are products of WASP culture. Their primary spiritual and cultural Father is Oliver Cromwell. Anglo-Saxon Puritanism was a Judaizing heresy, which means it has always spread ‘Talmudism’ indirectly via its heretical ideas. Oliver Cromwell himself made clear how deeply powerful was the spirit of Judaizing by making alliance with Jews, specifically to take Jewish money to better enable him and his WASPs to wage wars against the majority of Christians native to the British Isles.

You cannot separate the Jewish/Talmudic problem in the Modern world from the WASP problem.

Thanks for the invite, but after asking a couple of embarrassing questions to which there’s no legitimate answer, they’re throw me out – head-first.

If you don’t want to be burned to ashes, don’t fuck with the Jews.

Doesn’t work that way.

Those backward, infantile, narcissistic, psychopathic, crackpots have a long record of gratuitous sadism and evidently plenty of them’ll fuck with you and dominate you in unimaginable and ineffable ways for the cheap, transient thrills. There’s a record that their own Gawd couldn’t even stand ‘em from the sound of it.

The dude’s due to smite the hideous parasites once again, and soon, I hope.

PS: You dandy fopling Izzy firsters will eventually be tossed under the bus by the worst of ‘em, and I’m stocking up on popcorn and hope I’m around for the show. Schadenfreude can be a muthu too.

“In the sky Allied fighter planes caught sight of the civilian train and opened fire on the children inside, whose blood was soon pouring out of the wreckage.”

Yeah, boo-hoo. Here’s the bottom line. We continue to have wars because we made ‘rules’ for war. Manufactured indignation about war tactics is amusing. If everyone knew that war meant ‘real’ war, the incentive to participate might be dampened. But as it is now, countries and ‘watchdog’ groups are like sissy-boy NFL players that after every play are seen to be looking for the ‘ref’…”did you see where he touched me?” Ignore the rules for once and see what happens…what have we got to lose?

A lazy Neo-Nazi would of course be unaware of the Nero Decree, and Hitler’s reasoning for it. Hitler had 100x the honesty of his whiny modern followers, destruction of Germany was consistent with his belief might makes right,

It is better to destroy these things ourselves … the people have proven themselves the weaker, and the future belongs to the stronger population in the east.

No doubt horrid beyond words, war being the ultimate expression of human insanity, however the other aspect of this historic pandemonia being :

” Wollt Ihr den totalen Krieg” . “JA” !!!

Authenticjazzman “Mensa” qualified since 1973, airborne trained US Army Vet, and pro jaz musician.

Even the so-called conservatives now manage not to know that the Spanish Republicans/Reds slaughtered a large number of priests and monks, raped many nuns, blew up multiple churches, all that on top of – perhaps a type of dessert for – the meat and potatoes work of bludgeoning backward civilians who refused to bow to the progress of atheist revolution.

By the way – when the British Empire managed to strike trade deals with the Spanish Empire, it planted Masonic lodges not merely in New Spain but in Spain as well. As in Mexico, the British founded Masonic lodges were indispensable to all subsequent revolts in the country.

The Americans did their part of religious/cultural devastation when they bombed the fifteen hundred year old monastery of Saint Benedict at Monte Cassino. The Americans justified their act of barbarism and incineration by claiming that the monastery was being used by German artillery spotters; they never provided any proof that this was true.

You have a serious problem with spelling and usage. The proper terms are “Pelagian,” and “Heretic.” Both are irrelevant to the article and leads me to wonder if you even understand the terms in the first place.

I don’t have time right now for a detailed comment, but the “100 000 dead” figure imo isn’t credible, I find the arguments for 25 000 to 30 000 dead persuasive (which to be sure is bad enough,

You obviously are in a much better position than I am to evaluate the conflicting evidence. What I find interesting, and not often referred to (as far as I am aware), are the population statistics. The ones cited by Wikipedia (which seem to be from official sources), show the following:

31. Dezember 1938 – 634.400
17. Mai 1939 – 629.713
31. Dezember 1940 – 626.900
31. Dezember 1944 – 566.738
30. April 1945 – 368.519
31. Mai 1945 – 397.676
1. Dezember 1945 – 454.249
29. Oktober 1946 – 467.966
31. August 1950 – 494.187

Source: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einwohnerentwicklung_von_Dresden#cite_note-2

Obviously many people must have left the city because their homes had been destroyed, but it does suggest the scale of the damage.

Some also might be under the impression that Warsaw (which the Germans destroyed) and Paris (which Hitler wanted to destroy) were among the “cultural treasure houses of western civilization,” but I guess only German cities count.

I don’t know we can say –after all these years of propaganda– who really wanted to exterminate or had worse plans for whom. We can only judge the things that did happen. Also, it is a mistake to confuse ‘government’ with ‘people’. Not all regions of Germany voted for Hitler, for example. And leaders like Churchill should be held to a higher standard than John Bull. If the Soviet Army had directives to rape, that’s different than battle rage. Same with German summary execution of Jews on the Eastern front. And so on. But in this you are spot on:

” It is time for the West to fully acknowledge the great suffering of German people in WWII(and it’s time to stop treating the Shoah as a neo-religion than as a tragic event in history), but too many revisionist types moan and groan about dead Germans but show no such sympathy for all the dead Russians, Poles, and Jews. At every turn, they apologize for Hitler’s actions or minimize the brutality carried out by Germans while making a huge deal about German suffering and victimhood.”

The tendency to only see evil outside ourselves leads to disaster. Even for convincing others, a balanced view that acknowledges our side’s mistakes is more effective.

Cool. The same applies to “native” Indians in the Americas, right?

Attacking a man through his family as Applolian tried to do to Hoffman is reptilian.

I don’t know of any recent studies, but the 100k deaths are reasonable given what was happening at the time. Dresden had become something of a choke point for refugees and military who were withdrawing in the face of the Soviet advance. The authorities at the time are the source of the casualty figure and civic authorities in Germany were not given to inflating such things.

The Dresden missions resulted in by far the largest firestorm of the war. The earlier firestorm in Hamburg was accidental. Bomber Command and 8th Air Force figured out how to create the storms with intent. Under the circumstances, 100k+ deaths is quite reasonable.

Jews continue to marry nonJews at a high rate in the USA, which has the most Jews after Israel itself.

As for Europe, like Christians and secularists, Jews will flee as Muslims take over.

As for Israel itself, Arab Muslims and ultraOrthodox Jews continue to have higher fertility rates than other Jews. NonOrthdox Jews may find themselves a smaller and smaller minority, and Jews themselves eventually may be a minority in that country. The process will be stopped for a while, and slowed thereafter, if many Jews from Europe seek refuge in Israel, but the process will resume again,

Jews managed to destroy other peoples — and encourage other peoples to pervert, debase, and destroy themselves and each other — but they haven’t managed to save themselves either in the longer term.

The author is right on one thing at least: Dresden was a war crime.
As were all the other terror bombings carried out in WWII. No one, none of any of the major participants did not, at any time, not resort to committing war crimes on an industrial level.
War crimes committed on the highest military authority.
There is plenty blame to go around, the victors were blameless, as are all victors.

Yet another reason for rejecting war as an option. As a citizen of Europe, I hope we grow up soon.

“Warum genuegen 25,000 Tote von Dresden nicht?” in Die Welt. February 7, 2015

Read it…and other work by German historians, before accepting the 100,000 fantasy. As the article suggests, aren’t 25,000 dead enough?

the “100 000 dead” figure imo isn’t credible

Because it was more than 100,000. German cuckhood of which German_reader is an exemplar reached zenith after the reunification. They agreed to link Dresden to British Coventry narrative and drastically lowered the number of dead. During good old times of DDR one could walk around Dresden and curse British and Americans openly. The bombing raids were officially called terrorist. And now in the unified crucified Germany we learn it was justified because of Coventry. How many people died in Coventry?

Hitler-apologists will say he invaded Russia to defeat communism when, in fact, his grand plan was not about ideology but about biology.

Hitler invaded USSR because Britain refused peace terms and it was clear that FDR was gearing up to enter the war. Germany needed the resources of the Soviets to have any chance to defeat the American economic collosus in combination with the British Empire. Respected Establishment historians Adam Tooze and John Lukacs both say the invasion was entirely rational and necessary. But Hitker bungled it by not taking Moscow.

In fact, the whole mess could have been avoided if Hitler and Nazis had respected Poles and other Slavs as fellow whites and Europeans.

The Slovaks were NS Germany’s first allies. The Czechs under the occupation were given the same benefits as German workers- with the bonus of not being subject to conscription. The lack of discontent prompted the British to send in a Czech emigre team to assassinate Heydrich in order to stir things up. Hitler of course took the bait.

Hitler also got along well with the Poles when Pilsudski was in charge. Here’s Wikipedia on Pilsudski:

After Adolf Hitler came to power in Germany in January 1933, Piłsudski is rumored to have proposed to France a preventive war against Germany. It has been argued that Piłsudski may have been sounding out France regarding possible joint military action against Germany.Lack of French interest may have been a reason for Poland signing the Non-Aggression Pact of January 1934. Little evidence has, however, been found in French or Polish diplomatic archives that such a proposal for preventive war was ever actually advanced.Hitler repeatedly suggested a German-Polish alliance against the Soviet Union, but Piłsudski declined, instead seeking precious time to prepare for potential war with either Germany or the Soviet Union. Just before his death, Piłsudski told Józef Beck that it must be Poland’s policy to maintain neutral relations with Germany, keep up the Polish alliance with France and improve relations with the United Kingdom.

But there is a rather complicated history between Germans and Slavs:

https://www.counter-currents.com/2016/05/hitlers-empire-1/

With the Treaty of Versailles in 1919, millions of ethnic Germans became vulnerable minorities in other countries. Hundreds of thousands were either forcibly expelled to Germany or their situation was so desperate they emigrated to the Reich. Almost 10 percent of the ethnic German population of Czechoslovakia emigrated to Germany before 1938.

I can attest that, to this day, French young people are not taught in school about the ethnic cleansing their forefathers committed against defeated Germany:

In the wake of the First World War, the French had purged the provinces of Alsace and Lorraine, classified their population according to “blood origins” and driven out more than 90,000 people in barely a year: the German population of the Moselle department dropped from 164,502 in 1910 to under 45,000 in 1921. (199)

A total of some 200,000 ethnic Germans were expelled from reannexed Alsace-Lorraine.

The situation was similarly bad in Poland:

In Poland itself, the Germans were seen as second-class citizens and traitors [. . .] “Polish land for the Poles” was a common watchword, and [Prime Minister Władysław] Sikorski spoke in 1923 of ‘de-Germanizing’ the western provinces. (36-37).

Some 575,000 Germans would leave their ancestral lands in Poland to rejoin Germany between 1918 and 1926 alone, including half of the ethnic German populations of ceded Poznania and West Prussia. Mazower stresses that German expulsion and persecution of Poles was in some respects meant as both retaliation for and reversal of Polish policies:

Everyone knew how, after 1918, their [ethnic Germans’] land had been confiscated or surrounded with subsidized clusters of new settlements. Hostile officials had discouraged them from speaking German or declaring themselves as Germans in censuses and even the landscape itself had been de-Germanized through changes to the names of families, streets and entire towns. In many areas Germans had been deliberately expelled; in others they had sold up and left, or bowed to the pressure to change their nationality. The Nazi regime saw reversing the effect of these decades as a priority. “Make this land German for me again!” Hitler had ordered an official after the conquest of northern Yugoslavia in 1941. His message to those he appointed to the Reich’s other borderlands was basically the same.

On “anti-Slavism” as ideology:

https://www.counter-currents.com/2016/05/hitlers-empire-1/

Allied propaganda and conventional narratives emphasize that the Third Reich’s racial ideology saw Slavs as “subhumans,” a term in fact more often used in a dysgenic rather than ethnic sense. Mazower makes clear however the paradoxical fact that German racial science at the time was actually a moderating influence on Slavophobia, because Slavs were considered a linguistic rather than a racial group:

Prewar Germany funded racial science well – as it did the sciences in general – and the Third Reich was a particularly generous sponsor. [. . .] The discipline of racial science itself was in turmoil, and many German scholars had already become aware of the difficulties. [. . .] [K]nowing how to distinguish a German from a non-German – the key concern for those running the new empire – was not something upon which it was possible to get expert consensus. (182)

Hitler apparently agreed:

Hitler himself thought Himmler’s race mysticism was impractical and, while hostile to Serbs and Russians in general, he felt differently about other groups of Slavs. He praised the Czechs as “industrious and intelligent workers” and speculated that blue-eyed Ukrainians might be “peasant descendants of German tribes who never migrated.” In fact, he came round to the view – common among German anthropologists – that there was, racial speaking, no such category as “Slavs”; it was a linguistic term, nothing more.

Ah! Finally. A commenter who noticed the “Hitler was almost always outfoxed by the clever machinations of the masonic treachery at the heart of Britain’s ruling class..”

Why do you think that Unz is such a dark hole for talking about that historic political party, Freemasonry? Jew bashing allowed, but not any analysis of such an elite way of networking. No mention on RoundTable-Fabianism-CFR-Bildeberg. It is current and global, but not mentioned in polite company.

By the way, Masonic lodges all the way to South America, with Bolivar and San Martin being Freemasons. From Wiki:
“San Martín resigned from the Spanish army, for controversial reasons, and moved to South America, where he joined the Spanish American wars of independence. Historians propose several explanations for this action: the common ones are that he missed his native country, that he was a British agent and the congruence of the goals of both wars. The first explanation suggests that when the wars of independence began San Martín thought that his duty was to return to his country and serve in the military conflict. The second explanation suggests that Britain, which would benefit from the independence of the South American countries, sent San Martín to achieve it. The third suggests that both wars were caused by the conflicts between Enlightenment ideas and absolutism, so San Martín still waged the same war; the wars in the Americas only developed separatist goals after the Spanish Absolutist Restoration.[10]

San Martín was initiated in the Lodge of Rational Knights in 1811. They met at the house of Carlos María de Alvear, other members were José Miguel Carrera, Aldao, Blanco Encalada and other criollos, American-born Spaniards. They agreed to return to their home countries and join the local revolutionary movements. San Martín asked for his retirement from the military, and moved to Britain. He stayed in the country for a short time, and met many other South Americans at a lodge held at the house of Venezuelan general Francisco de Miranda at 27 Grafton Street (now 58 Grafton Way),[11] Bloomsbury, London (the house now has a blue plaque with Miranda’s name).”

A young, unknown San Martin also traveled to the U.S. and somehow got around to meeting with George Washington. Such a lucky break. And he later obediently accepted Bolivar’s dismissal, and went into freemasonic exile.

But hey, that happened long ago.

In 1945 Dresden was full of refugees from the East so it was believed that its population during the bombings was much higher and thus the difference between permanent population numbers will underestimate the number of dead.

Nazis throughout the whole war were underestimating the numbers of dead due to bombings. Germans were not told how bad things were for morale and propaganda reasons. But internally they kept the numbers that were not to be used officially.

All the Generals that surround Trump and run the Presidency for him were staunch advocates of the Iraq war and all the other U.S. interventions in the last two decades. Foreign quagmires are what the US does best.

So Trump listens to Kelly and the other neocon old generals and sent more troops to Afghanistan. Dresden was just the warm up. Americans are still being lied to about Vietnam after they forgot about Fallujah.

Good article, Mr. Hoffman, and most of the attempted refutations very weak.

The deceased great American author Kurt Vonnegut was in Dresden at the time, as a well-treated P.O.W., his account of Dresden firebombing in parts of his novel Slaughterhouse 5, and aftermath for him and others, he was stating were true experiences.

I would expect that the topics of Mother Night were dictated to him by his publishers as a kind of forced self-abnegation.

Not that it is a bad novel, just far more fictional than the wartime scenes in Slaughterhouse 5, and the probability that he was forced to write it as a mea culpa for the former by his publishers (New York Jews) is very high.

I even like the movie of Mother Night a little, mainly because it is featuring Laura Palmer and Spiderman’s girlfriend in Spiderman’s previous incarntion, otherwise, occasional good camera shots. In general, crap.

BTW:
The famous Picasso painting, Guernica, was actually started BEFORE the event.

http://www.codoh.com

I agree.

How many people died in Coventry?

568 is the official figure, I believe.

“Why do you think that Unz is such a dark hole for talking about that historic political party, Freemasonry?”

I think that is so because such discussion always means we must talk about WASP culture as not only not conservative in any sense worth having, but that has a very long history, an indispensable history, in promoting leftist revolutions across the globe./

The WASP Elites have been amoral, power and money-worshipping monsters of anti-Christendom revolution since before Oliver Cromwell officially allied them with Jews.

“Neo-Nazi” …. yawn.

The typical childish response from a dumb Zionist.

There were the ‘Nazis’ with the mythological ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ and there were the ‘Nazis’ without the mythological ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’.

Again, where’s your proof for you assertion?

You just typed some text and put a blockquote around, as if it were actually Hitler.

See the impossible ‘holocaust’ storyline debunked here: http://codoh.com
No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

As at WACO …..a BURNT OFFERING for the Jewish serpents

Warsaw was “destroyed”? Not.

Parts of it were attacked, being a legit military target.
The Jew ghetto was damaged due to the German suppression of rioting, which was legal under international law.

Paris? ” which Hitler wanted to destroy” Proof?

I’m sure you’ll say next: ‘Hitler wanted to destroy Mexico City’ too.

You have been indoctrinated, laughably so.

http://www.codoh.com

During good old times of DDR one could walk around Dresden and curse British and Americans openly.

Sure, but you couldn’t speak openly about the issue of rapes by Red Army soldiers in 44/45 and plenty of other issues…the bombing of Dresden was just useful for bashing Western “imperialists”, “warmongers” etc. Just Cold war politics.
And I didn’t even mention Coventry…it’s true that the escalation in the bombing war was mostly due to deliberate decisions taken by the British, and the bombing of Coventry (aimed at its armaments industry) wasn’t comparable to their intentional destruction of entire city centres in Germany. If you read the book by Overy I mentioned in my earlier post, you’d actually see that argument made by mainstream historians. That’s unconnected to the issue of how many died in Dresden.

Yes, of course. They lost to a superior civilization.

said in trying to appease the violent Zionists:
“but too many revisionist types moan and groan about dead Germans but show no such sympathy for all the dead Russians, Poles, and Jews. At every turn, they apologize for Hitler’s actions or minimize the brutality carried out by Germans while making a huge deal about German suffering and victimhood.” ”

Strawmen galore. Revisionist do nothing of the sort.
Please present your proof for your “brutality carried out by Germans”.
As for “Hitler’s actions”, please tell us what those were, present proof.

The fact of the matter is that the ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossble.
You nor anyone else can change that fact. Real history requires real proof, which you do not have. Simple as that. Cheers.
See the impossible ‘holocaust’ storyline debunked here: http://codoh.com
No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com
Only liars demand censorship.

Holocaust Handbooks, Documentaries, & Videos

http://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?main_page=1

Chemistry of Auschwitz / Birkenau

Lmao once again, the Nazis themselves, who never bothered denying what they did, had infinitely more integrity than their brain dead modern wannabes. As for the Nero Decree, you can find it in any number of works on the war’s last few months, e.g. Toland’s “The Last 100 Days,” but I’m sure you’ll keep covering your ears anyway

“The German people has not fought heroically. It deserves to perish. ”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/9634647/Everyone-lied-to-me-Hitlers-rant-in-bunker.html

Sadly, I believe that there’s more than a grain of truth behind both the author’s and apollonian’s ‘revisions’ to the mainstream narrative. Being the Pelagianist (I had to look that one up) that I am, I still believe in the reality Jesus Christ and his teachings, but… Regardless, according to “apollonian”, I’m hellbound for daring to question Man’s total depravity. In his book I might as well be a soulless communist/relativist/Satanist. In my book, I am far from any of those three. Aww Shucks. Someday, we’ll all find out. Hubris?

At this juncture we pause to contemplate the bloody treason that was at the heart of Churchill’s soul: he wanted as many of his own English civilians in London to die as possible, so he could point to their deaths as the justification for a total war against Germany, and he succeeded in his objective.

One can hardly call this treason.

Prior to shifting the air war to the Blitz, Fighter Command was on the verge of being broken.

And the destruction of housing stock is much less damaging to the war effort than the destruction of vital industries.

So at a stroke, Churchill prevented the Luftwaffe from gaining air superiority over England and shifted their attacks to non-strategic targets.

And if what you say is true about the British peace movement, Churchill removed political opposition detrimental to the war effort. It must be remembered that the British government possessed less power than the German government and was both more dependent on public opinion and had less ability to mold it.

That’s not to justify the destruction of Dresden of course, but as it was said of the Germans of the time–sew the wind, reap the whirlwind.

Britain probably would’ve been better off not pursuing the bombing campaign at all. Something like one-third of Britain’s industrial effort was in support of the bombing campaign, which did not begin to have decisive effects until the second half of 1944. Of course no one could have known this in 1940.

Yes, Hitler was consistent in his beliefs, unlike today’s Neo-Nazi losers who talk about might making right and then whine about muh Dresden or 6 gorillion red army rapes

Excellent, fact based discussion here, propaganda shattered:

Who started bombing civilians first:Germany or Great Britain?

https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=8172

http://www.codoh.com

The facts discussed here, propaganda shattered:

Operation Barbarossa Was A Preventive Attack

https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7999

http://www.codoh.com

The holocaust in Dresden, lasting two days and killing at least 100,000 people

Even a dedicated, loyal fan of David Irving would have been bewildered by this claim. If the exact number is inessential, why just one highly eccentric estimate. If it is important, why leave it without a single reference or an explanation. If you know better than your readership, enlighten it, Mr. Hoffman.

And I, too, am tired of this memorialising selectivity. In the Western mainstream media, it’s the Jews Jews Jews. Among revisionist Westerners, the highlight is reserved for the Germans and only the Germans. Well, if you’re so close-minded to exclude even Christians of Western outlook that were of other nationalities, let alone Asian, you’ll end up on a receiving end of a same kind of close-mindedness. After all, during the war the churches were open and active throughout the Slavic world.

And before I end, here are comments of an eyewitness and participant in the bombing of Dresden, preceded and followed by remarks from David Irving.

David Irving, April 2009:
“Eventually I went to and spoke to master bomber airman “Bomber” Harris.
A great man, great commander. I know many people don’t like him. I know
many call him a war criminal. … Bomber Harris’s told me he didn’t want
to carry the bomb air raids either. But he had been ordered to do it. It
was a political decision by Churchill, and himself.
I mean, I interviewed him back in April 1962, and the book I finally
published became a bestseller. …”
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97L_SJrPl6g) (11:12)

I forwarded the above quote in my message to Freeman Dyson, who worked in the Operational Research Section (ORS) of the Royal Air Force’s Bomber Command since 1943. He responded:

Date: June 05, 2016 5:32 PM
Dear Ivan K.

I am not a historian and do not claim to know all the facts. What I know comes from the official history of the RAF bombing campaign by Noble and Frankland.

The basic strategy of Britain for fighting WW2 was fixed by the government in 1936, when the decision was made to build a big force of strategic bombers as the primary instrument for defeating Germany. Once that decision was made, everything else followed, all the way until Dresden. Neither Churchill nor Harris was responsible for the decision.
Both of them were executing the strategy that was already decided. The person chiefly responsible for the decision was Hugh Trenchard, who was retired but still highly influential in 1936.

The statement of Harris to David Irving was made 17 years after the war. Like many such statements by military people and politicians, it is strongly influenced by hindsight. Harris is remembering things as he wished they had been rather than as they were. His behavior during the war makes it clear that he was executing the bombing strategy with much more enthusiasm than the situation demanded. And the same can be said of Churchill.

Yours sincerely, Freeman Dyson.

I then forwarded Dyson’s response to David Irving, and he responded:

Wednesday, June 22, 2016 12:45 PM
From: info fpp.co.uk

That was an interesting exchange. Thank yifor sharing i with me.

David Irving
Inverness, Scotland (UK)

Interesting is that Klemperer never mentions gas chambers, even more interesting is that he writes that he understands why Hitler persecuted jews, with explanation.

It is interesting for a psychiatrist, perhaps. Good Germans also never saw concentrations camps or gas chambers even when they could see them from their windows. You, for example, is hard at work denying facts documented in literally tons of documents, photos, films, witness accounts, because you can find some Victor or other who, interestingly, never saw anything. if you knew anything about proof, you’d know that the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Just because somebody saw nothing doesn’t mean there was nothing to see.

BTW you should make up your mind, and so does that Victor character – either there was no prosecution (he was married to a German woman, after all and lived happily ever after, how nice!) or prosecution was justified. He understands why Hitler prosecuted Jews, doesn’t he, and, apparently, so do you.

But if it is OK to prosecute all Jews (including newborns, I presume) for whatever crime they supposedly committed it’s equally justifiable to punish all Germans for very real crimes, so they should’t complain about Dresden.

Kurt Vonnegut’s Slaughterhouse-Five (1969) is one of the best anti-war novels. The film adaptation (1972) was surprisingly good.

Vonnegut probably used 1963 David Irving’s The Destruction of Dresden thought most is based on his experiences as a POW in Dresden.

Surprisingly one of the first post war sympathetic to Germans portrayal of Dresden bombing comes from Polish 1961 feature movie “Tonight a City Will Die”

much more here, see:
Polish Atrocities against Germans before 1. September 1939

https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7525

“Poland wants war with Germany and Germany will not be able to avoid it even if she wants to.”
- Polish Marshal Rydz-Smigly as reported in the Daily Mail, August 6th, 1939)

.”under Polish pressure the Germans in the southern and eastern districts were subjected to oppressive treatment. On Aug. 19 1920 the Poles felt strong enough, indeed, to make an attempt to seize the country by force. On all sides bands of Poles, chiefly recruited from Congress Poland, usurped authority. A number of Germans were forcibly carried across the frontier into Poland, and many were killed. Several weeks elapsed before it was possible to quell this rising and restore order…It had been suggested by the Entente that non-resident Upper Silesians of the German Reich should vote outside Silesia, at Cologne. Germany protested against this, and her protest was recognized as valid by the Entente. In January 1921 the date of the plebiscite was fixed for March 20 1921.
An immediate revival took place in the use of terrorism by the Poles, especially in the districts of Rybnik, Pless, Kattowitz, and Beuthen. It reached its climax in the days preceding the plebiscite. Voters from other parts of the German Reich were frequently refused admission to the polls; sometimes they were maltreated and even in some instances murdered; and houses where outvoters were staying were set on fire… The day after the plebiscite the Polish excesses recommenced, and from that date onwards continued without interruption… Practically all the towns voted for Germany… the first days of May witnessed a new Polish insurrection which assumed far greater proportions than the former one. Korfanty had secretly raised a well-organized Polish force which was provided with arms and munition from across the border, and was reinforced by large bodies of men from Poland…
By June 20 the British troops had again occupied the larger towns, while the Poles had the upper hand in the rural districts. As a result of the difficulties in paying his men and providing them with food Korfanty now lost control over his followers. Independent bands were formed which plundered the villages, ill-treated the Germans, and murdered many of them.”

- 1922 Encyclopaedia Britannica, “SILESIA, UPPER”

This article appeared in the Polish newspaper Die Liga der Grossmacht in October, 1930:

A struggle between Poland and Germany is inevitable. We must prepare ourselves for it systematically. Our goal is a new Battle of Tannenberg. However, this time, a Tannenberg in the suburbs of Berlin. Prussia must be reconquered for Poland, and Prussia, indeed, as far as the River Spree. In a war with Germany there will be no prisoners…

“Tannenberg” refers to the Battle of Tannenberg in 1410 when a Polish army defeated the German Teutonic Knights. The article is full of many more anti-German remarks.

Also, Von Ribbentrop defended the attack of Poland by stating that between 1919-1939, one million Germans had been expelled from Polish territory accompanied by numerous atrocities, and that complaints to the World Court in The Hague and the League of Nations in Geneva had been ignored.

further reading:
the book: “Dokumente polnischer Grausamkeiten. Verbrechen an Deutschen 1919-1939 nach amtlichen Quellen” (Documentations of Polish Cruelties. Crimes Against Germans 1919-1939 According to Official Sources).

http://www.codoh.com

The Jew ghetto was damaged due to the German suppression of rioting, which was legal under international law.

Could you enlightened us as to which “international law” even at those damned times authorized ghettos?

Paris? ” which Hitler wanted to destroy” Proof?

I don’t know what Hitler wanted and I could’t care less. I know what he did – he destroyed Kiev, Kerch, Sevastopol, Stalingrad, to name just a few. He blew out magnificent suburbs of St. Petersburg: Peterhof, Pavlovsk, Tzarskoye Selo, Gatchina – everything he could lay his dirty hands on. He destroyed pre-Mongol 11-12 century churches in Great Novgorod, and this is just a small part.

I know you people are ignorant, and it sounds particularly ridiculous when you accuse someone else of being indoctrinated. Try reading something else besides that silly website you refer to all the time.

said:
“the Nazis themselves, who never bothered denying what they did”

As usual, you are utterly wrong, childishly so. What’s alleged is scientifically impossible.
Indeed torture will get some of the desired results, see below, however, here is a massive list of ‘Nazis who most definitely rejected the impossible propaganda:

quora.com / Tim O’Neill: Nazis never denied ‘holocaust’ / WRONG

https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8165

and:

Your main, infantile, Zionist problem is this:

We’re talking about an alleged ’6M Jews & 5M others’ … 11,000,000.
There is not a single verifiable excavated enormous mass grave with contents actually SHOWN, not just claimed, (recall the claim of 900,000 buried at Treblinka, 1,250,000 at Auschwitz, or 250,000 at Sobibor, 34,000 at Babi Yar) even though Jews claim they still exist and claim to know exactly where these alleged enormous mass graves are.

The ‘holocaust’ storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that denies free speech and the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

Only liars demand censorship.

The ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
see the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here:

http://codoh.com

No name calling, level playing field debate here:

http://forum.codoh.com

I lived in Germany as a military dependent.

The tragic consequences of total war strategy was visited on Dresden. But such policy is non-unique in annals of war. Nor was total war the domain of the allies.

I get the argument here and would not deny the tragedy of total war campaigns. But that is not the same thing as genocide in targeting a unique population. Dresden was an attack that made no respecter of personal or group identity identity.

If it had been the French who launched crusades as the Germans, then some French industrial city would have been targeted.

Laughable BS.

As British M15 agent? Seriously?

The Zionist ‘Telegraph’. This is pure unproven fiction.

Where is the actual German document showing this?
Oops!
It doesn’t exist.
Some agenda driven M15 agent merely making things up is high school hilarity.

This is too easy.
http://www.codoh.com

The hidden logic of revisionists is really this: Anglos and Germans were racial cousins, so they should have allied together and wiped out Russians as the inferior Slavs with tainted blood. Read between the lines in Buchanan’s UNNECESSARY WAR and you get the same sick demented logic.

Germany’s main enemy was (and remains) a master of blaming others for their own crimes and shortcomings. The Nazis were up against some of the world’s premier racists, i.e., Zionists who are themselves a particularly nasty offshoot of another vicious, hate-filled racist cult.

Here’s an example of what I’m referring to.:

“”Goyim were born only to serve us. Without that, they have no place in the world – only to serve the People of Israel.”
Why are gentiles needed? They will work, they will plow, they will reap. We will sit like an effendi and eat.”According to Yosef, death has “no dominion” over non-Jews in Israel.

“Hate the Gentile!” Israel’s Racist Rabbis, by JONATHAN COOK

http://www.counterpunch.org/2010/12/10/israel-s-racist-rabbis/

I’ll take revisionist history over propaganda fantasy any day.

The Holocaust, believe it or not, is not a major concern of mine. You and the Jews do not understand that the Holocaust, like oil reserves, is a finite resource. They are already running out of Holocaust fuel for the grievance industry.

However, a fair understanding of history is of interest to me. The actual political battles being fought now, even more.

By the way, in your book, was there anything wrong at all with Nazi ideology? What about policies? Concrete acts? No criticism is fair?

So you just call everyone you don’t like as a Zionist? Typical of Neo-Nazi cowards to obfuscate their anti-semitism. Personally, I hope Israel gets wiped out by Iran

Discrimination, and worse, of Germans in Poland is confirmed by
Helmuth Fechner, ´Deutschland und Polen, 1772 – 1945’, Würzburg 1964
Günter Grass, ‘Beim Häuten der Zwiebel’, München 2008
Grass grew up in Danzig, he had relatives ouside Danzig.

Except there is no proof for your uneducated claims. As I have repeatedly shown. It is you who is truly in denial.

- If there was ‘a plan to kill every Jew the Germans could get their hands on’ then why are there countless numbers of so called “survivor$”?
- If the alleged ‘holocaust’ was fact, then why are there laws in Europe to prevent free speech & scrutiny of it?
- Why do Jews want ’6M Jews’ to be dead?
- Why have Jews have been marketing the ’6,000,000′ lie since at least 1869?

http://balder.org/judea/New-York-Times-Six-Million-Jews-Since-1869.php

Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the ridiculous ‘holocaust’ storyline is the message. http://www.codoh.com

More German civilians died/murdered in Dresden from Brit/Amer bombing than total Jew deaths all camps.

More Germans died/murdered from 1945 to 1950 in the Morganthau-Eisenhower camps than jew died in all Jew invented pogroms.

Pat Buchanan has a good book about WW2, “The Unnecessary War”. Doesn’t mention Balfour’s Declaration and few other important Jew related facts. Pretty much standard stuff re Jew.

The Nazis were forced to deal with troublemaking Reds. As Bolshies are prone to do, they blamed them for targeting Jews, and that was a lie. They targeted Reds, many of whom happened to be Jews.

Contrary to the lies and propaganda, non -Red Jews did well in Nazi Germany even after New York Jews declared a boycott and war against Nazis. Zionists even collaborated with Nazis.

Around jan 1 1945 Hitler indeed gave orders to destroy Paris, to flood the Netherlands with sea water, by destroying all sea sluices, and to destroy any German industry.
The orders were sabotaged, or simply refused.

It’s doubtful that Hitler assessed anything calmly and deliberately after about 1943, given his use of amphetamines and Dolophine . By most accounts, he was extremely unstable and given to rages.

No calm, deliberate assessment could lead any thinking human being into deciding that his own people deserved obliteration simply for being defeated, especially if that human being was their leader in the war. Face it; Hitler was clearly insane once the war went against him and he succumbed to drug addiction.

Before he actually went nuts, he was pretty much fucked in the squash after the “Great War”.

Too bad their ideas survived and came to fruition in America

Their ideas did much more than survive in this cesspool. Commie-nizm, if not made in Amerika, was financed and supported by many ‘Merkin “elite.” It was, and apparently still is, a very “kool” thing to do/ be.

“Today I marvel that the world communist movement was able to beat the drums against Germany and never once betray what the inner group knew well: that some of the same forces which gave Hitler his start had also started Lenin and his staff of revolutionists from Switzerland to St. Petersburg to begin the revolution which was to result in the Soviet totalitarian state.”

-Bella Dodd, School of Darkness, Ch 7

Your statement is obviously the work of a profoundly disturbed mind. Seek help before you snap and kill us all.

If you read Elie Wiesel you can learn that even he never saw a gas chamber.
Elie Wiesel, ‘La Nuit’, 1958, 2007

As to why Klemperer writes he understood the persecutions of jews, he read an article, from memory, in an Ukrainian newspaper, where Weizmann, later first president of Israel wrote ‘that if GB declared war on Germany any jew in the whole world would become a British agent’.

Great pity for you, but I see Germans as victims of jews.
Not, of course, the common jews in Europe, but of jews as Bernard Baruch and Frankfurter.
Bruce Allen Murphy, ‘The Brandeis/Frankfurter Connection, The Secret Political Activities of Two Supreme Court Justices’, New York, 1983

Early in the war a jew escaped from a concentration camp in Poland, and was smuggled to the USA where het talked to Frankfurter.
Frankfurter said to him ‘I do not believe one word of what you’re saying’.

It took me years to understand why Franfurter said this, until I understood that he was one of the architects of the war, he wrote the LendLease Law.
The understanding was in connection with another statement by Frankfurter about what the escaped jew had said ‘I did not say he was lying, I said I did not believe him’.

My conclusion, Frankfurter had never thought that Hitler would execute his 1939 threat, ‘that if jews again caused a world war, they themselves might be ausgerottet’.
I do not translate the last word, there is much debate over what it meant in 1939;

One more thing, antisemitism was far more intense in Poland and Lithuania than in Germany.
Klemperer just had trouble, much, with the Gestapo.
Jan T. Gross, ‘Neighbours, The Destruction of the Jewish Community in Jedwabne, Poland, 1941’, 2003, London
Dan Jacobson, ‘Heshels Rijk Familiekroniek’, Amsterdam 1998
The last book, how any, or most Lithuanian villages, before the Germans were there, executed all their jews in the woods.
There are some pictures in
Christopher R. Browning, ‘Ordinary Men, Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland’, 1992, 2001, London,
taken in Lithuania.

And strychnine, in injections.

Zionist collaboration with Eichmann:
Yitshaq Ben-Ami, ‘Years of wrath, Days of glory Memoirs from the Irgun’, New York, 1982

Hitler may have hated Commies, but his plans for Eastward expansion were long-held. According to Clive Ponting, Von Ribbentrop, while visiting Churchill at his country house, Chartwell, several years before the outbreak of war, showed Churchill a map of Germany’s intended conquest of Russia, and asked what Churchill thought. Churchill is reported to have responded: “We don’t like the Russians, but we don’t hate them that much.”

And the plan for German Eastward expansion goes back long before Hitler, in fact to Bismarck, who, when urged to found a German overseas empire, pointed to a map of Eastern Europe, saying “here is my empire.”

Even Churchill was appalled, so it is reported, by the pointless atrocity of Dresden, muttering, after viewing photographs (or a newsreel, by some accounts) of the wreckage, “Have we become beasts?”

But then men are beasts and always have been, and when it comes to war, they will stop at nothing to gain victory. That is the logic of natural selection.

Actually you are an idiot. Indiscriminate killing is worse than selective with respect to real or imaginary deserts. If somebody kills your child because this somebody thinks that your child deserves it is worse than if somebody bombs your whole house killing everybody in it just because this somebody can to it?

It is a mistake for me to even argue with you, so after this comment I will not bother, and indeed I will not even check back in to see if you replied, but if you really claim to be knowledgeable about World War II, surely you should be aware that the Germans deliberately destroyed huge sections of the city as revenge after the 1944 uprising (a separate event from the earlier ghetto uprising). Also, while I am sure you would claim it is a myth, the story of Hitler’s (fortunately defied) order to destroy Paris is well-known.

Yes, their attitude toward collective guilt and collective punishment is rather inconsistent.

There is now no question on this matter. The Allies deliberately and maliciously burned Germans to death in this most horrendous war crime in all of history.

While it is true that the Soviet troops (mostly rear echelon forces) behaved in an absolutely horrendous and barbarous manner against German civilians, the deliberate incendiary bombing of Dresden (and so many other German cities) was the product of a special and despicable kind of evil- the Cromwellian concept of murdering in the name of the Lord- who “the Lord” was in 1944-1945 is another matter entirely.

We now know- with certainty- that the deliberate mass murder of civilians via area bombing was begun by the British under Churchill and that Hitler was resolutely opposed to such inhumane methods of warfare and only retaliated after months of pleading with the British to stop it.

There was no “Good War.” The Second World War in Europe was fought to destroy Germany, primarily for economic and financial motives.

The so called “Holocaust” is a cover and deflection for the abominable atrocities inflicted by the “Allies” upon the Christian peoples of Europe.

Very interesting article. But, what about the rockets der furer rained down upon London? Does that not count as ‘bombing’?

@ an indispensable history,… leftist revolutions.

What authors/sites do you favor?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=XsPOKoNKii4

The Nazis were forced to deal with troublemaking Reds.

Poor nice peaceful Nazi were forced to deal with those pesky Reds that resisted them murdering everyone in sight and finally beat them to a pulp. I truly sympathize with their plight.

Those nasty ‘Bolshies” blamed the Nazis exactly for what the Nazis are prone to do: targeting everyone they didn’t like – the Jews, the Russians, the Gypsies, red, blue, yellow, men, women , children, didn’t matter. The Nazis were murdering bastards, but how do we call those that defend them?

Many collaborated with the Nazis. After reading comments like yours I am no longer surprised that almost the entire Europe fought on Hitler’s side: nazism is deeply ingrained into the European psyche.

“Plenty of them’ll fuck with you and dominate you in unimaginable and ineffable ways for the cheap, transient thrills”.

Being f*cked and dominated by Jews (likely a male Jew) appears to be some erotic fantasy of yours!

I hope you were keeping your hands on the keyboard when you wrote this!

Shalom,
Sherm

it’s equally justifiable to punish all Germans for very real crimes, so they should’t complain about Dresden

In the decision to bomb German cities the justification by real or imagined deeds of Germans was never used. In fact the full scope of what was going on in Bloodlands and some concentration camps was not known at that time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloodlands

Everybody involved was aware this was a war crime to bomb civilian populations which was devoid of military age males.

Christianity being worship of TRUTH

Wrong!! Christianity is the worship of DECEIT!

http://www.badnewsaboutchristianity.com/db0_onegod.htm

The last book, how any, or most Lithuanian villages, before the Germans were there, executed all their jews in the woods.

Neither Dan Jacobson nor Jan T. Gross are historians. The former is a novelist. But it is true that there were retribution by local populations against Jews after June 22, 1941 for their cooperation with the Soviet regime when it engaged in atrocities and mass deportation against the local non-Jewish population after the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. It was Jews who organized anti-Polish or anti-Lithuanian pro-Soviet militias that participated in rounding up of people for arrests and deportations. They were the ones who prepared the proscription lists for the Soviet authorities. The retributions did not have anything to do with anti-semitism. The Jews as citizens of Poland or Lithuania betrayed their countries and did great harm to their non-Jewish citizens. There was not much sympathy for Jews left when the mobile SS groups arrived to round up Jews to ghettos created in smaller towns or in some cases to kill them like in Jedwabne after Germany attack USSR. germans were viewed as liberators in Polish and Baltic states territories occupied by USSR.

I heard insulting people you don’t know is a great way of convincing people.

You’re projecting, when in fact you are the coward, afraid to debate your juvenile claims.

antisemitic: any thought or person that Jew doesn’t like.

The ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
see the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here:

http://codoh.com

No name calling, level playing field debate here:

http://forum.codoh.com

Onward Christian soldiers. On to Damascus! On to Tehran! On To Moscow!

And, On to Hell!!

There is no contradiction between what Dyson and Irving said. What is interesting is that in 1940 during the Battle of England in the phase when Germans were bombing airports to destroy RAF Churchill decided to start bombing civilian population in Germany to provoke Germans to reciprocate which they did after 2 weeks of provocations to their own detriment because that lifted the pressure off from badly beaten RAF and thus the Battle of England was lost for Germany.

BTW: I have just discovered that my internet provider Time Warner started blocking David Irving site few days ago.

No he didn’t.
Show us these ‘Hitler orders to destroy Paris, to flood the Netherlands with sea water, by destroying all sea sluices, and to destroy any German industry.’
You cannot.

“we’ve often fantasized about drawing up an indictment against Adolf Hitler himself. And to put into that indictment the major charge: the Final Solution of the Jewish question in Europe, the physical annihilation of Jewry. And then it dawned upon us, what would we do? We didn’t have the evidence.”
- “holocaust historian” Raul Hilberg

http://www.codoh.com

Great pity for you, but I see Germans as victims of jews.

Well, some people see the earth as flat while others see alien spaceships land daily in their lawns. What does that prove except that you might have issues with your understanding?

One more thing, antisemitism was far more intense in Poland and Lithuania than in Germany.

True, the German Nazis had many allies in their quest for racial purity. I am not saying that nazism is restricted to Germany or Germans. There were and still are many Nazis of other nationalities. That is true that the Germans use the local talent to deal with not only the “Jewish question” but also with other issues such as the local resistance movements. Those local Nazis are also know to take the initiative on occasion or eagerly report their neighbors to the Germans. How does this absolve the German Nazis or makes them less repugnant?

Got proof, or just Zionist propaganda?

I see you you ignored Chuchill’s verifiable raging alcoholism.

http://www.codoh.com

We’re talking about an alleged ’6M Jews & 5M others’ … 11,000,000.
There is not a single verifiable excavated enormous mass grave with contents actually SHOWN, not just claimed, (recall the claim of 900,000 buried at Treblinka, 1,250,000 at Auschwitz, or 250,000 at Sobibor, 34,000 at Babi Yar) even though Jews claim they still exist and claim to know exactly where these alleged enormous mass graves are.

see the ‘Jedwabne’ lie debunked here:
Jedwabne: photographic exhibition of a fraudulent exhumation

https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3108&hilit=jedwabne

lots more:

https://forum.codoh.com/search.php?keywords=Jedwabne+&fid%5B0%5D=2

see Zionist Christopher R. Browning’s ‘Ordinary Men, Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland’, demolished here:
Reserve police battalion 101

https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1422

and:
Christopher Browning: The State of the Evidence For the ‘Final Solution’
By Brian A. Renk

https://codoh.com/library/document/979/?lang=en

The ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
see the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

Germans, whether good or indifferent, saw concentration camps for what they were- essentially rehabilitation centers for anti-social elements. The difference between the German camps and the prison industry in America is that the former were NOT factories for further criminality and recidivism, but existed primarily for the purpose of rehabilitating inmates and returning them to society to fulfill their role as productive citizens. Contrast that with the gang culture and iron pumping thug culture of high security of American prisons.

Before 1941, the only Jews in these camps were those who were known Communists or criminals.

After 1941, i.e., the invasion of the Soviet Union, many Jews were indeed conscripted for labor purposes and placed in camps. While there may have been many incidents of injustice involved, this was no different than what the Americans did to their own population of Japanese citizens and German aliens. The difference in conditions in the camps was due to the fact that the American hinterland was virtually untouched by the ravages of war, while the German nation was the epicenter of its destructiveness.

The demonization of National Socialist Germany is a necessary, indispensable element for creating a tyrannical and oppressive world government based upon the social revolutionary ideas of Trotsky, the Frankfurt School and the new Transhumanist Synagogue of Satan.

You make the Jews sound very dangerous. Are you an Anti-Semite?

Why are you so eager to defend Hitler?

As I heard it, Dresden was scheduled to coincide with the Yalta conference which was February 4-11 in order to intimidate Stalin who did not have air power. The Dresden bombing was postponed because of bad weather.

You may include my two grandfathers out.

Thank you.

Germans, whether good or indifferent, saw concentration camps for what they were- essentially rehabilitation centers for anti-social elements.

You are a good candidate for that kind of rehabilitation.

Pity for you that I visited Lithuania, and spoke with a foreigner living there quite long, who spoke the language.
What he said to me is in line with Jacobson, novelist or not.
You could also read
Lonely Planet Guide ‘Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania’, Nicola Williams, Debra Herrmann, Cathryn Kemp, 2003, Victoria, Australia.
where the discusion in the Lithuanian parliament is mentioned, about restoring the ghetto.
The question was asked something like ‘must the Lithuanians again become slaves of the jews ?’.
My earlier mentioned source told me that before WWII jews controlled the economy of Lithuania.

You have no comment on the pictures in ‘Ordinary Men’, with the stories, how jews were beaten to death.
Then there was a statement in a tv report about jews in Lithuania ‘they were the better traders’, and ‘how they collaborated with Russians’.

It all adds up, you see.
The great thing about truth is that it is consistent.

About Gross, historian or not, is it true what he writes.
Bogdan Musial, ´Sowjetische Partisanen 1941 – 1944, Mythos und Wirklichkeit’, Paderborn 2009
Quite interesting on how jews were hardly accepted in the resistance.

Then there is
Anne Applebaum, ‘Between East and West, Across the borderlands of Europe’, Londen, 1995
where an old, Polish if I remember well, says ‘Hitler did horrible things, but he delivered us from the jews’.

On top of all this you could read
Jakob Wassermann, ‘Die Juden von Zirndorf’, 1897 1999 München
André Schwartz-Bart, ‘Le Dernier des Justes’, 1959, 1980 Paris
novels, but both describe how jews lived in competely separate communities, and were not liked.

It’s called total warfare. If you bomb my home, don’t be shocked that i might choose to bomb your home, your car, and anything that enables you to make war to prevent you from bombing my home or anyone else’s again.. In the case of Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki – they were responses to acts of war by the said state.

If however, I bomb your home for no reason other than as a test of my weapons systems: Guernica, that is something else entirely. N ow I get the contention by many that the Jews deserved because they hurt Germans, I am not sure i buy the argument, but I understand it.

In the case of WWII, Germany was the aggressor and her aggression was met with aggression. And contrary to the author’s press, there is a good deal of debate about the ethical use of total war.
my idiocy not withstanding.

It would take me quite some time to find the name of the German officer who refused to destroy Paris.
German industry, I think Speer got the order.
Dutch sluices, inn a tv report ‘Das zähme Fluten’ those who sabotaged were interviewed, their trick was to to inflate the calculations for the quantity of explosives that it was more than Germany had at the time.
As a replacement measure the sluices were opened, this was zähme Fluten, gradual flooding.
But the Wieringermeer, in the NW, was flooded completely.
A relative of me even went there before anything was under water in search of food.

Read
Kai S. Schreyber (Hrsg.), ´Warum wir ADOLF HITLER wählten, Jungwähler von 1933/38 berichten’, 2001 Kiel
on how the German streets became safe after Hitler began with cncentration camps, in 1933

Ever heard of neocons, AIPAC, AEI ?

Great pity for you, but I see Germans as victims of jews.

Well, some people see the earth as flat while others see alien spaceships land daily in their lawns. What does that prove except that you might have issues with your understanding?

Given your obvious propensity to be suckered by old propaganda, you’re no doubt one of those who see the earth as flat and who see alien spaceships land daily in their lawns.

Here’s a quote that should stimulate a few brain cells, if any.

“… this entire myth, so prevalent then and even now about Hitler, and about the Japanese, is a tissue of fallacies from beginning to end. Every plank in this nightmare evidence is either completely untrue or not entirely the truth.
If people should learn this intellectual fraud about Hitler’s Germany, then they will begin to ask questions, and searching questions…”

Murray Rothbard, Revisionism for Our Time
Mr. Rothbard was an American Jew and an historian of the very highest caliber.

http://mises.org/daily/2592

It’s a short read and should accommodate even a very short attention span.

I didn’t know about the strychnine, but that could also help account for the rages. Valkyrie wasn’t about a few disgruntled non-nazis simply wanting to replace Hitler. He really was a raving lunatic in the last few years of his life, and the men who tried to kill him were the sane ones in his government.

“Defending Hitler”?–actually it’s just matter of defending TRUTH (= Christ, Gosp. JOHN 14:6) in general. For didn’t dear unc’ Adolf stand-up for Germany and German people against Jew world order? U need to consider humanity has always hated Jew liars, monsters, and murderers like urself, eh?

I know Poles do not like the Jedbabne story.
However, considering the attitude of Poles towards jews it, in my opinion, may well have been true.
I did not write that I believe ‘Ordinary men’, just mentioned the pictures of Lithuanians beating jews to death
I, in fact, have great doubts about the book, the Einsatzkommando’s, also based on
Léon Poliakov, ‘Bréviaire de la Haine, Le IIIe Reich et les Juifs’, 1951, 1974, Paris
how groups of fifty to a hundred men massacred 40.000 jews, Poliakov mentions many examples, is a bit difficult to understand.
Even more difficult how later special groups with special fluids destroyed all bones inn all mass graves.
Then there is the small problem of how just some twenty of the supposed 1000 men of the Einsatzkommando’s gave evidence, and appeared in Neurenberg.

“In the case of WWII, Germany was the aggressor and her aggression was met with aggression. And contrary to the author’s press, there is a good deal of debate about the ethical use of total war.”

U’re just another Jewwy liar, eh?–wasn’t it Brit. and France who declared war against Germany?–Brit. and France, puppets of the Jew world order banking power, like Jew S A, which was behind them, encouraging war. Didn’t Brit. make offensive alliance w. Poland against Germany in Mar 1939? And didn’t Poland threaten Germany w. war if Germans moved to re-unite w. German city of Danzig? And these pt.s are besides well-known facts of Poland’s illegal taking of German territory just after WWI when Germany was required to be dis-armed.

…both describe how jews lived in competely separate communities, and were not liked.

True. Many not only lived in separate communities, but those that did, did it by choice. They were not liked nor did they like anyone else, apparently.

Talk about racial supremacy, and racial purity, look no further than the prohibition against marrying outside of the tribe.

Furthermore, Zionism was a largely separatist (apartheid) reaction against the assimilation of successful Jews. I.e., the losers couldn’t stand to see any of their own getting ahead and getting accepted by the deplorable goyim.

The loser Jews are guilty of everything they blame others for.

Hitler was under great stress, in any case from 1933 on.
His doctor gave him injections with concoctions he made himself.

It in my opinion it is about facts.
It cannot be denied that in just three years time, 1933 to 1936, Germany was resurrected from Versailles.
Unemployment was reduced from six to one million, on a population of some 44 million.
Hunger and frozen feet, over.
And Germans could be proud of their country again, a country with influence in the world.
One may criticise the way in which it was done.

” In the case of WWII, Germany was the aggressor and her aggression was met with aggression. ”

You obviously know nothing about the Polish provocations meant to cause war.
Alas Hitler took the bait.

So you are saying “The Holocaust” (TM) is an invention–an inversion of truth if you will?

“I know you people are ignorant, and it sounds particularly ridiculous when you accuse someone else of being indoctrinated. Try reading something else besides that silly website you refer to all the time.”

Yes. These morons sound like the Hitler-worshiping cretins who have ruined Caste Football.

Ok Wally, I have read this Brian Renk of yours you linked to. He does not contest Browning work on Police Battalion 101. He also agrees that several 100′s of thousands of Jews were shot by various Einsatzgruppen:

I haven’t contested the mass shootings as having occurred. I’ll repeat: it’s certain that several hundred thousand people were shot by the Einsatzgruppen.

So, why did you link to it?

Don’t you know how to reply directly to a comment?

Since I am not a criminal, drug addict, public homosexual or a communist agitator, why should I need rehabilitation?

Would such a thing not be better spent on those whose existence is not only a drag on society, but a danger to it?

IOW, there are no ‘Hitler orders’ that you claimed.

http://www.codoh.com

“It would take me some time to find the name of the German officer who refused to destroy Paris.”

It was Dietrich Von Choltitz.

Listen old man, I do not know what is your argument. I know you are well read but you are not blessed with the ability to discern truth from propaganda, unfortunately. I have responded to your claim that Jews were killed “before the Germans were there.” No, killing of Jews started after June 22, 1941 when Soviet occupying forces were pushed out form Baltic States and Eastern Poland. Anti-semitism is not necessary to explain the motives for killings why in some cases local populations aided and abetted Germans in killing the Jews. In most cases they were forced to participate. It was a revenge for despicable conduct and behavior of Jews under Soviet occupation when it was them who aided and abetted Soviet occupiers. Was the anti-semitism a factor? Probably, but the intensity of the anti-semitism increased after September 17, 1939 when Red Army and NKVD moved into Poland and were met by official welcoming Jewish committees who very soon started hunting down Poles and making proscription lists to NKVD.

The ‘Nazis’ did nothing that wasn’t being done worldwide at the time.
recall:

- FDR forcing Jap. – Ams. into concentration camps, stealing their possession, etc.

- recall the worldwide dislike & criminalization of homosexuals, which BTW, there is no proof that the ‘Nazis’ killed a single one because of being gay, not one. Same for the gypsies. *

- recall the Soviet persecution, & gulaging of countless Christians & political opponents

* The Myth of a Nazi Extermination of Homosexuals by Jack Wikoff http://www.cwporter.com/homo.htm

Gypsies and Homosexuals in the Camps http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=1894

homosexuals – Yad Vashem … http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=1930

The ‘homosexuals & gypsies’ canard is merely an attempt by Jews to buy votes for their laughable and impossible ’6M & gas chambers’.

There were the ‘Nazis’ with the mythological ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ and there were the ‘Nazis’ without the mythological ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’.

These morons sound like the Hitler-worshiping cretins…

Any Hitler worshipping going on here sure beats the Hell outta the Bolshie and Izzy worshipping.

You got a problem with any of that?

- The Germans destroyed whatever buildings that were necessary to uproot the rioters who had dug in.
Call that what you like, but Warsaw was not “destroyed”. Not even close.

- So “well known” that you cannot produce the claimed ‘Hitler orders’ for this ‘non-destruction’ of Paris. Truly absurd.

Indeed, witchcraft & sorcery were “well known”.
The list of “well known”, no longer accepted ‘facts’ is legion.

“One should not ask, how this mass murder was made possible. It was technically possible, because it happened. This has to be the obligatory starting-point for any historical research regarding this topic. We would just like to remind you: There is no debate regarding the existence of the gas chambers, and there can never be one.”

- endorsed by 34 “reputable historians” and published in the French daily Le Monde on February 21, 1979

http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5205

http://www.codoh.com

For those unfamiliar, the British bombed at night, which was safer, but couldn’t see any targets. The city was the target, which they bombed with firebombs to start fires and burn up everyone.

I’m going to have to pull you up on this one. The RAF flew at much lower altitudes, making them more vulnerable to flak and the Luftwaffe night fighters. My uncle and his crew are buried in a Commonwealth cemetery in southern Poland. The same radar-guided Luftwaffe pilot shot down three of their squadrons’ aircraft in one night.

Indeed, we hate Zionist lies. We love the truth

There was Hitler with the mythological ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ and there was Hitler without the mythological ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’.

“we’ve often fantasized about drawing up an indictment against Adolf Hitler himself. And to put into that indictment the major charge: the Final Solution of the Jewish question in Europe, the physical annihilation of Jewry. And then it dawned upon us, what would we do? We didn’t have the evidence.”

- “holocaust historian” Raul Hilberg

http://www.codoh.com

the Germans deliberately destroyed huge sections of the city as revenge after the 1944 uprising

This is a very strange episode. They did it after emptying the city from all of its population. They did a lot systematic looting. And then the order was to destroy the city. It was in the fall of 1944 when Paris was already liberated and Allies were getting close to Germany. Clearly they were driven insane by their powerlessness and the looming defeat.

BTW, people were not killed then. Only in the early stages of the 1944 Uprising in August 10′s of thousands of civilians were massacred (by mostly Ukrainian and Russian SS units) in Warsaw but towards the end Germans started to behave better and gave the Poles status of military combatants so they qualified for the POW status instead of being shot.

Churchill, like many others, endeavored to blame Germany for being the first to saturate civilians with terror-bombs —at Guernica in Spain on behalf of Franco’s forces, and in Rotterdam, during the war with Holland.

Firstly, a major omission from this passage: during the 1939 invasion of Poland—literally within a week of the war’s outbreak— the Luftwaffe was indiscriminately bombing Warsaw and strafing refugee columns.

Secondly, if you read the passage including/following this quote with any attention whatsoever, you’ll see that nowhere does it actually bother to try to refute Churchill’s point that the Nazi-helmed German state pioneered the tactic of terror bombing civilians that would later be used to such terrible effect against its own population. This is of course because Churchill’s point is factually correct, and seriously undermines Hoffman’s argument.

Nothing that occurred in Guernica, Rotterdam, or for that matter London, begins to even approach the scale of the holocaust that the firebombs of the air forces of Churchill and Franklin Roosevelt inflicted on Dresden.

This is, to say the least, an incredibly misleading statement. This is for several reasons, but most importantly, the reason that casualties from German bombing campaigns never reached the casualties of Anglo-American bombing campaigns is because Germany lacked the strategic bombing capacity and air superiority necessary to inflict those casualties. If the Luftwaffe had ever had the strength and control of the skies that Allied forces achieved by 1945, there is no reason to doubt that it would have matched, or indeed far exceeded, the casualties produced by Allied bombing campaigns.

Consider that during the 1940-1941 period, when Germany actually did have a matter of parity in terms of aerial power with Britain, the Luftwaffe was ordered to systematically bomb British civilian population centers with the express purpose of inflicting mass civilian casualties to undercut morale/support for the government. This is for all intents and purposes exactly equivalent to the logic behind RAF/USAAF bombing of Germany. (There were actually important differences in RAF and USAAF doctrine, but since this is long enough already I won’t bother to separate the two here.)

The reason that the Luftwaffe only (“only”) inflicted ~40,000 casualties is that it incurred unsustainable losses in the Battle of Britain and Hitler ordered the German war machine to prepare to focus on a land war with the USSR in Eastern Europe. Again, if the Luftwaffe had the resources that the Allies did by 1945, there is no reason to think, given its historical behavior, that it would not have continued to inflict mass civilian casualties unless/until the British government surrendered.

There are many more instances of serious confusion in the article, but I’ll address those in other comments for the sake of readability.

oyy Veh.

I understand that many would do anything to avert the blame for WWII from Germany.

But regardless of whether Germany was baited or not, they initiated a war. And they initiated a war on several fronts that they did not have the resources to sustain.

If others want to blame Jews, Poles, French, low IQ or the cows, that’s fine with me. The war was not about fought about Germany’s internal issues. The war was fought because of Germany’s expansionist ambitions, including but not limited to her goals of restoring an ancient Nordic belief of the superior comprised on the original peoples of the region — race.

The tragic decimation of Dresden was intended to stop Germany’s ability to prosecute a war against other states.

Please note what you actually quoted, “people”, not Jews.

And as I have stated, non-uniformed combatants were subject to execution, per international law. That was the purpose of the Einsatzgruppen, to pursue & eliminate the illegal terrorists.
As for Renk’s “several hundred thousand people were shot by the Einsatzgruppen.”, I contest that specific number as subsequent research has exposed it as wrong. But that’s the way real history works. You adapt to newer, more empirical studies, aka: ‘revise’.

The fake ‘holocau$t’ Industry now claims that ca. 2,000,000 Jews were shot by the Einsatzgruppen into huge pits, so, anyone, please SHOW us the actual excavations, the enormous mass graves, & remains that are claimed to exist, their locations are allegedly known.
Is that:
100 graves of 20,000?
200 graves of 10,000?
400 graves of 5,000?
500 graves of 4,000?
1000 graves of 2000?
2000 graves of 1000?

http://www.codoh.com

Nothing that occurred in Guernica, Rotterdam, or for that matter London, begins to even approach the scale of the holocaust that the firebombs of the air forces of Churchill and Franklin Roosevelt inflicted on Dresden.

This statement is also highly misleading because there are several important instances in the Second World War where German armed forces inflicted, or were ordered to inflict, exactly the kind of sack-of-Troy destruction of a city—huge civilian casualties and destruction of its physical infrastructure and cultural monuments– that American bombers leveled on Dresden, notably:

Warsaw after the 1944 uprising against German occupation, Leningrad during the German siege thereof from 1941-1944 and Stalingrad during the battle fought in and around it in 1942-1943. Additionally, Hitler ordered the destruction of Paris in 1944, and the destruction of much of Germany’s own infrastructure in the “Nero Order” in 1945, but thankfully subordinates refused to carry out the orders.

As I noted above, the reason that Germany did not inflict the kind of damage on Allied cities that was inflicted on Dresden from American bombing was that it lacked the aerial strength to do so. If Germany had had that strength, it would have done so; and German land forces repeatedly inflicted similar destruction when they possessed the capacity and were given the orders to do so.

(Note that I’m not justifying Allied bombing tactics, which I think AC Grayling persuasively argued in Among the Dead Cities were immoral and counterproductive.)

Still more to come in further comments.

So you identify yourself as one of the Hitler-worshiping cretins?

BTW I hate the Communists and their apologists. And the hypocrites who want a wall around Israel but oppose a wall for America.

germans [sic] were viewed as liberators in Polish and Baltic states territories occupied by USSR.

I’m reminded of an observation a Wehrmacht infantryman made in his diary during Barbarossa: “We came as liberators—of their foodstuffs, of their coats, of their boots…”

“Call that what you like, but Warsaw was not “destroyed. Not even close.”
Are you really that obtuse? It seems that you are not aware of the August 1944 Warsaw uprising and its aftermath in which the Nazis spent precious resources in the fall of 1944 turning Warsaw into another Carthage. Perhaps not so surprising given that due to Hollywood, most Americans only know of the 1943 Warsaw Ghetto Uprising. Do you have any other source of references besides CODOH?

It would take me quite some time to find the name of the German officer who refused to destroy Paris.

There was a well-known book (1965) about it, “Is Paris Burning?,” which was subsequently made into a movie. The general was Dietrich von Choltitz (played in the film by Gert Fröbe of Goldfinger fame).

You’re wasting your time with Wally, as I am sure you are already well aware.

Go back to Brietbart!

Hitler never ordered the destruction of Paris. In fact the exact opposite is true. Shortly after German forces conquered France, Hitler made a personal tour of Paris to pay tribute to Napoleon’s tomb and to admire Paris’ unique architecture and works of art. In addition, Hitler held the English people in high regard, and did everything in his power to avoid war between Germany and England. But true to form Churchill, who harbored a soft spot in his heart for Communist Russia would entertain no ideas about avoiding war with Germany, who in truth, served as the guardians of Western civilization against Communist hoards encroaching from the eastern front.

I am not going to challenge history. The British and the French agreed to protect Poland from her expansionist aims. The reality is that neither country was in a position to do so and Poland fell to the Germans and the Soviets.

By the time we get to Poland the ambitions of Germany exceeded agreed upon limits and the only c choice to stop said ambitions was war. Before I ventured into old history courses I thought i would take a peek. Unfortunately, the problem begins before Danzig, but it did not stop there.

https://ww2db.com/battle_spec.php?battle_id=162

Hence the expression Germany’s expansionist ambitions that exceeded, retaking old German territory from the previous conflict. Germany’s constant extending the territorial demands made it clear — only war would stop her aggression.

https://ww2db.com/battle_spec.php?battle_id=162

So many of these conversations are like having a chat with lawyers, who would like to remove consideration of the larger picture for a small slice to make their cake. It’s referred to as fallacy of composition, failure to consider the larger components of a matter – before making conclusions. The invasion of Poland settled any doubts about German ambitions.

Don’t start a war and your cities probably won’t be bombed.

Indeed. A lot of people are also unaware that the RAF and SAAF flew weapons to the Polish Home Army in Warsaw during the Warsaw airlift. My uncle was one of the hundreds of aircrew killed on these flights to Warsaw. The bombers arrived over Warsaw at night and a common theme among those that returned was the sight of the city in flames.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_airlift

I’m all for honest debate, but talking out of your arse doesn’t count. Wally should visit Warsaw and walk the streets, see the photos in the museums showing the destruction, or talk to some Polish people.

“In the case of WWII, Germany was the aggressor and her aggression was met with aggression. And contrary to the author’s press, there is a good deal of debate about the ethical use of total war.”

Incredibly wrong, uninformed.

‘Responsibility for WW2′ https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7544

‘Polish Atrocities against Germans before 1. September 1939′ https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7525

Operation Barbarossa Was A Preventive Attack https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7999

‘Who started bombing civilians first:Germany or Great Britain’ https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=8172

http://www.codoh.com

I read that book. I didn’t know it was true or just endless WW2 fiction when I read it.

It wasn’t a riot, you idiot. It was Poles attempting to free their capital from foreign occupation. Do you have a problem with an occupied people doing that? Yes or no?

Yes, and if the Germans had the Death Star, they would have blown up Alderan.