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The Diversity Miracle
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Today’s world of higher education is not especially notable for miracles. But I am happy to report of one such miracle—the transformation of diversity from an academic liability to an asset of near incalculable benefit. That this transformation occurred in the space of a few decades and cost only a few million, makes it especially notable and gives hope that other miracles may soon appear.

Life Before the Miracle

When I began my university teaching career at an elite university in the late 1960’s the push for racial diversity was just beginning. This meant recruiting African American youngsters from the inner-city, providing extra tutoring during the summer, paying all their expenses and hiring black bureaucrats to oversee progress.

I cannot say how the experiment worked elsewhere, but for myself and department colleagues, it was an academic disaster. These recruits lagged far behind their classmates on every measure of intellectual proficiency, and those who passed the course usually did thanks to instructor generosity. Their written work was especially abysmal, and many proved troublesome students—skipping class with lame excuses, a penchant for plagiarism, and similar burdensome behaviors.

Matters did not improve over the next few decades where I spent twenty-eight years at a major state university. Despite the administration tinkering with recruitment strategies and investing yet more in remedial tutoring schemes, I saw no academic improvement. Rare exceptions aside, the “diversity students” struggled and, as before, I suspect that most survived thanks to more generous grading curves and dumbed down course requirements.

Particularly exasperating was recruiting and retaining African American graduate students. Courses requiring some mastery of statistics and research methods could be especially tough obstacles and many of these admittees thrashed about when it came time to write Ph.D. dissertations. In more than a few cases I can personally attest that overcoming this dissertation hurdle required an “unusual” level of faculty intervention.

Such under-performance could hardly be hidden from other students. I could sometimes see how their classmates smirked when these diversity admittees asked a particularly dumb question or tried to interject race-related nonsensical points into class discussion. In one large lecture class a black student adamantly insisted that the Black Panthers were a non-violent do-gooder specializing in breakfast programs for school kids. Non-minority students would also hear all the official campus talk about the latest outreach initiative or upping retention of these students by offering majors in Black Studies or permitting “blacks only” student housing.

Whether regularly admitted students seriously interacted with diversity admittees is an unanswerable question but I suspect that intellectual back-and-forth was constrained. Campus self-imposed segregation was everywhere, and I cannot recall seeing any animated discussions among mixed race groups before or after class. I suspect that if this interaction did exist, it has dwindled with time given the dangers that now can result from race-related misunderstandings. Today’s white students know all about unintentional micro-aggressions and how such conversations can accidentally bring accusations of offensiveness. Better to keep chit-chat bland.

If the problems of dealing with struggling black students were bad enough, the administrative-mandated faculty diversification was far worse. These were top-down pushes to make numbers and often included “free money” if the right candidate were hired. The emphasis was strictly on race, never program needs so zero attention was paid to what a black job candidate might teach. Who cares if the department already offers two courses on black politics if a black job candidate could only offer a third while the position in, say, Asian politics went unfilled.? Nor did anybody express reservations about the lack of traditional scholarly qualifications, notably publications in major disciplinary journals. It was just assumed that affirmative action hires could not be held to high standards. Similarly, given the intense competition for decent candidates, an attractive black candidate might be enticed with a well-above market salary, zero teaching load for his first two years on the job, a generous research and travel budget and other lures that a white male could never demand.

Perhaps the worst aspect of this diversification was how it promoted political correctness. Savvy instructors learned to avoid all sensitive topics lest minority students were offended and claimed that they could not survive in such a poisonous environment. Don’t even mention The Bell Curve or hint that racial groups differ in criminality, illegitimacy etc. etc. Almost overnight, the range of what could be expressed in the classroom (and pursued in research) drastically narrowed. Science that produced the “wrong” results automatically became “bad” science. The very idea of debating the role of culture in economic attainment became unthinkable thanks to newly arrived diversity.

All in all, other than for the most zealous egalitarians, this was a failed experiment.

The Miracle

Outside of teaching a few graduate seminars here in New York, I left the academy in 2002 though I have tried to keep up with events. It thus came as a great surprise to me that between my departure and today, the campus has witnessed a Miracle—diversity has been transformed from a tolerable burden, a rocky initial step in the march toward racial equality into an immense, widely celebrated benefit.

Skeptics need only search Google to see the evidence. It would be impossible to summarize this literature so only a few examples must suffice. According to the research highlighted at the website Everfi, diversity enriches a student’s educational experience, improves his or her communication skills, challenges stereotypes, allows students to see themselves as leaders and better prepares them for today’s diverse workforce. To quote, “Ultimately, studies show that diversity on campus improves ‘intellectual engagement, self-motivation, citizenship and cultural engagement, and academic skills like critical thinking, problem solving, and writing – for students of all races. Interacting with diverse peers outside a classroom setting directly benefits students, making them better scholars, thinkers, and citizens.’”

ORDER IT NOW

Meanwhile the Center for American Progress (a non-partisan progressive thinktank) provides ten reasons why diversity is necessary on today’s campus. Among these are that a diverse campus will reflect America’s shifting demography, help to close race-related educational gaps, promote a more innovative and competitive workforce (vital for our global economy), make American firms more profitable, enhances national security and, lastly because the American public wants campus diversity.

Hardly surprising, the research on hiring a diverse faculty is likewise upbeat on its benefits. Typical is one academic study that argues that a diverse faculty may be especially valuable for minority students thanks to having role models who look and sound like them. In addition, all students will learn how to live in an increasingly diverse world while a diverse faculty will offer more diverse courses and thus expose all students to a wider range of ideas, teaching methods and scholarship. A different study demonstrates that upping faculty diversity will benefit college students since such faculty interacts more frequently with students than their white counterparts and use a broader range and more effective mix of pedagogical techniques.

A survey-based study at two medical schools reported that students believed that having diverse classmates greatly enhanced the quality of their education and thus supported current policies of affirmative action. At the risk of beating a dead horse, one highly scholarly, citation-rich review conclude that an ethnically diverse campus offer more varied educational experiences that both enhance learning and prepare these youngster for participation in a democratic society. And on and on.

These examples illustrate an overwhelming, uncontested consensus that diversity enhances education. Conceivably, contrary views exist, but I have yet to encounter a single example in “respectable” scholarly literature (the only possible exception are the writing of the non-academic Heather MacDonald).

It is impossible to exaggerate this alleged transformation—prior to this “miracle” an ill-prepared black student would likely be judged a liability since he could add little useful to classroom discussion and often had to be accommodated by lowering academic standards. Today, by contrast, his very presence helps classmates prepare for a more heterogeneous world, helps diminish negative race-related stereotypies all the while boosting US global economic competitiveness. Likewise, while a black Ph.D. might have once been hired despite his weak academic record, he or she now too, has become an educational asset by broadening the horizons of his white colleagues. What is remarkable about these studies is that they derive from institutions of higher learning and totally, absolutely and categorically avoid measuring any indicator of intellectual attainment.

This lopsided focus is hardly inevitable. It would not take much, for example, to assess whether ill-prepared black students thanks to a new critical mass of fellow students of color demonstrated higher levels of academic proficiency or now major in tougher subjects. Unfortunately, in today’s diversity-obsessed world it is more important that a black instructor convinces other blacks that they, too, can be professors versus helping them pass Organic Chemistry. No doubt, those searching for proof regarding the marvelous diversity miracle know full well that diversity hardly guarantees academic progress, no small matter given the academic accomplishment is the university’s pre-eminent mission.

Why this dramatic shift? Let me suggest that this abrupt change can only be explained by the a few-found ideological orthodoxy, what the Marxist would call the zigs and zags of history–the Party Line, so to speak.

Stripped of mendacious rhetoric, college admission with its promise of providing the magical diploma has become a tool to keep the peace and “promoting diversity” is the least embarrassing way to acquiesce to these political demands. Further justifying all those well-paid diversity bureaucrats—surely all their salaries must be accomplishing something. Yes, diversity admittees may have middling SAT scores and dreadful high school grades, gravitate to empty-calorie majors and stifle campus intellectual life, but their very presence on campus, regardless of classroom or disciplinary accomplishments or fields of study, contributes to our multicultural society and so they must be admitted. As for all those talented white (and Asian) males who will never be admitted or hired in a university, don’t fret—your willingness to step aside for members of historically under-represented groups is most gracious, and who knows, in a hundred years there may be campus statutes commemorating your sacrifice.

Today’s diversity mania with its dumbing down of the humanities and social sciences (and perhaps even the hard sciences) is, as they say, putting lipstick on a pig. And who cannot adore such a pig?

 
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  1. “Campus self-imposed segregation was everywhere …”

    So it was, and so it is. Self-segregation is human nature asserting itself despite the ongoing well-funded efforts of white SJWs, the diversity enforcement squad, in government, academia, and culture. I’m pretty sure most black folk would be content to fester amongst themselves if they didn’t have to tin-cup whitey for money. And I’m also certain the wise and creative genius Tee Hee Coates is in favor of voluntary segregation, though I’ve never attempted to read one of his 70,000 plus word essays to find out. I’ve heard they meander.

  2. Sorry. Apparently you don’t live in the real world. Some black students, in my experience, are smarter and better behaved than many white students. Notice–I said some. All in all, most students white and black, are stupid and badly-behaved.

    Also, I know several black professors who are certainly no dumber than the white professors. Again, not all of them.

    But the real problem is stupidity everywhere. If this chump thinks whites are smart and blacks dumb, he is either lying or dumb himself.

  3. I’ll tell you what the real problem is on campus. Football players. And I mean white football players. Although black ones are just as bad. Why don’t you ever talk about that? Any teacher who actually has experience teaching in college knows that it is the football players who disrupt, dumb-down, intimidate, destroy whatever actual education can be eked out. Eradicate football programs and colleges will become academic and rigorous again. But this will never happen. Because big geniuses like you love their boneheadball and will never stand for anybody touching it.

  4. I’ll tell you what else aids education. Sex-segregation. Forget race segregation. A class of all boys or all girls, with or without diversity, is much easier to teach. Fact. Period.

  5. actually, there was a compus diversification

    before the shitskin invasion that Weissberg describes:

    a Jewish-Marxist invasion during the 1950’s and 60’s

    that prepared the way for the subsequent shitskin invasion.

    I saw the poisonous results of that first invasion up close and personal @

    UC Berkeley 1966-70, and in grad school @ Yale U/Columbia U 1971-4.

    and it’s that Judeo-Bolshevik infestation which explains the current Black infestation.

    • Agree: anarchyst
    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Tyrion 2
  6. And one more thing. Middle- and upper- class blacks fit in and succeed much better and with much more ease than working class blacks. This is a fact. One you refuse to even deal with. Because you have this race uber alles thing blindering your brains. When, in fact, it is class uber alles that ought to concentrate them.

  7. Forget it…..it’s over. I recently talked to my friends at a couple of universities and even the STEM courses have been destroyed. The American University System is dead. Destroyed by Communist Fucking Jews who basically run everything even at the supposed best universities.

    If you want to see what is coming to America just read this article on the total destruction of the S. African University system starting with math. This is just unbelievable. Maybe someone with a twitter account should send this Taleb and ask him about his black geniuses now.

    Here’s the link: https://undark.org/article/in-south-africa-decolonizing-mathematics/

  8. Fred Reed said “We have released the power of our morons”.

  9. Wally says:
    @obwandiyag

    Your comments certainly prove Weissberg’s points.

    I also suggest that the very few “Middle- and upper- class blacks” who got there without the mentioned handouts from whites do in fact have somewhat higher IQs than the numerous “working class blacks”, who rarely even work, but prefer to receive welfare.

    The facts are that the drastically low IQs of the huge percentage of blacks point directly to their non-achievements. You don’t like it, but so what?

  10. Gene says:

    As always Rob Weissberg is a bigot who has little understanding of human capability. The older he gets, the more racist he become. Shameful!

  11. Greg Bacon says: • Website

    Rare exceptions aside, the “diversity students” struggled and, as before, I suspect that most survived thanks to more generous grading curves and dumbed down course requirements.

    Gotta give those black athletes a pass so they can win football and basketball games, which make the alumni all hot and bothered to the point they donate mega-bucks.

    My flagship state university got exposed in the late 1990’s for the academic courses that black athletes were offered, like the “Theory of Pool Shooting” and “Basket-weaving.”

    Yes, it’s obvious that those kind of dumbed-down courses would definitely enhance that college degree.

  12. Anon[168] • Disclaimer says:
    @niteranger

    Great link, thanks!

  13. bj says:
    @obwandiyag

    Some? Is that 3 or 4? Or is .0018 %.

  14. No name says:

    The entire country, USA, has become an awful place to live.

    • Replies: @Svigor
  15. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Haxo Angmark

    I remember the Bolshevik Jew invasion of the universities very well.

  16. edNels says:

    whether good or bad, the affirmative action programs like inter district bussing, and promoting black and browns into college above their academic abilities, must have done some good in showing the heavy hand of the elites who rule the system.

    I don’t know if the minority students are much improved from being plopped into a strange niche they don’t belong in, other than the few that actually benefited through the osmosis of it, but they must have had some experiences they would not otherwise get, good or bad, if they were woke to it.

    The main society of the white students sure got a few glimpses they needed to round out their education in practical matters.

    Education isn’t all for the espoused purposes to build the population and to improve the nation, a big part of the purpose is to occupy millions of unneeded spawn doing pointless time killing bs exercises of make work with out upsetting any apple carts like the protected job categories and mainly the ”professions”.

    The elites brats are detoured ’round that in special schools to fill vacancies etc.

  17. Yes, diversity admittees may have middling SAT scores and dreadful high school grades, gravitate to empty-calorie majors and stifle campus intellectual life, but their very presence on campus, regardless of classroom or disciplinary accomplishments or fields of study, contributes to our multicultural society and so they must be admitted.

    Is this sarcasm or a serious opinion ?
    Stifle campus intellectual life‘, …. contributes to our multicultural society and so they must be admitted.’.
    What is stated here, in my opinion is ‘we must commit suicide’.

    Dutch Minister of Foreign Affairs Blok just stated that the E European countries must be forced to accept refugees.
    Muslims in deeply religious catholic countries.
    What the objectives of him and his political friends are, I’d like to know.

    But maybe it does not matter any more, Macron is increasing the number of police on the streets all the time.
    In my opinion this means that he’s losing, has lost, the political battle.
    If the French succeed in forcing Macron to stepping down, the EU is finished.
    But I admit, the wish may be the father of the thought.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  18. @niteranger

    In the third world the idea is that a university degree is a ticket for a well paid, paid by tax payers, time behind a desk, doing nothing, and retiring well paid at the age of 55.
    Who is interested in the intellectual level of third world universities should read
    Verene A. Shepherd, ‘I want to Disturb my Neighbour, Lectures on Slavery, Emancipation and Postcolonial Jamaica’, Kingston 2007

    • Replies: @The King is a Fink
  19. I am sorry, but the part with whites being prevented to go to college due to blacks-something-something is nonsense. America is the third largest countries in the world, and yet it has the second largest rate of college attendance. There is no young American who would want to go to college, and wouldn’t be able to. Yes, they might have to go to another college, 200 miles away from home, or 2K more expensive, but it’s still a college. It’s demonstrably true that most of the whites going to college are idiots who need remedial classes, because they couldn’t learn the stuff taught in high school.

    • Troll: atlantis_dweller
    • Replies: @Wally
    , @216
    , @Per/Norway
  20. onebornfree says: • Website

    What did you expect?

    This just in: Marxism/collectivism is a scam.

    ALL government- funded “education” [i.e brainwashing] is a scam, [just like government-funded anything else].

    Government funded “education” was/is one of the [10?, can’t remember exactly how many] essential ingredients listed for the achievement of the idiot Marx’s utopian communist world-vision, as detailed in his “Communist Manifesto”.

    End of story.

    Regards, onebornfree
    http://onebornfree-mythbusters.blogspot.com/

  21. swamped says:

    It’s very doubtful that “in a hundred years there may be campus statutes commemorating… all those talented white (and Asian) males who will never be admitted or hired in a university”, who were graciously willing to “step aside for members of historically under-represented groups”. As part of the relentless push for ‘diversity’ and ‘inclusiveness’ on and off campuses, many of the existing statues to prominent white males from the past are being brought crashing down. It’s hardly likely that any new ones will be put up in their place. It’s probably a safer bet that all traces of the prior existence of shunned white males will be permanently erased from the revised historical record forever. And diversity will at last be fulfilled.

    • Replies: @The King is a Fink
  22. anonymous[301] • Disclaimer says:
    @obwandiyag

    ‘And one more thing’

    Only one? You mean we wont get to see you in the comments section several hundred comments later trying to have the last word?

  23. @obwandiyag

    In the not too distant future all the girls will get all hot and bothered over the captain of the gamers/Esports team who will either be a White or Oriental anemic nerd.

    • Replies: @Truth
  24. Anonymous[301] • Disclaimer says:
    @obwandiyag

    ‘When, in fact, it is class uber alles that ought to concentrate them.’

    Tell me about it right? Thats why poor White kids have better grades than the children of affirmative action blacks and the richest black suburb in prince george county Maryland has a higher rate of crime than many poor White areas.

    Its all about class. Why didnt I think of that? I mean leftists have only been harping on about it for like the last 50 years. By the way the bell curve was not about race it was about the effects of cognitive stratification on society.

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
  25. All of these “diversity is wonderful” research studies (all diversity cheerleading efforts, in fact) are reducible to a simple tautology: “We must have diversity in ‘X” (education, employment, etc.) because diversity is wonderful. Can’t argue with that.

    http://fosterspeak.blogspot.com/2017/03/diversity-speak-animal-farm-at-wright.html

  26. @obwandiyag

    So if that were true, where are all the white uber alles campaigning for their nitwit brethren to be admitted under lowered standards and expectations of academic standards.
    Perhaps middle and upper class blacks fit in better because they don’t have to endure the rigors of ghetto thug life and tend to devote more time to studies?

  27. jim jones says:

    At my University in West London we only had one Somali student while I was there. He was supposedly studying Psychology but dropped out after six months.

    • Replies: @Nonny
  28. @niteranger

    Decades ago, while stuck in traffic on the LA freeway, I listened to a radio program reflecting the complaints of disgruntled teachers at a local high school. The biggest issue was that due to illegal immigration the student body there spoke some forty-five different languages, and for each of them whatever they spoke was their primary language. I wonder how anyone could teach, much less learn, anything in one of those classrooms?

    A week later, stopping in at the Division of Motor Vehicles to renew a driver’s license, I was greeted with a large sign posted in the lobby that hailed another multicultural miracle:

    WE NOW OFFER THE CALIFORNIA DRIVER’S TEST
    IN WEST ARMENIAN DIALECT

    I’m afraid niteranger is right: it’s over.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
    , @Avery
  29. phil says:
    @Gene

    Please enlighten us about the capabilities of blacks in science, law, etc.

    Just because someone points out racial differences in capabilities does mean that these differences in capabilities do not exist.

    Calling someone a bigot and a racist is just a rhetorical device to deflect attention away from the genuinely low capabilities of blacks.

  30. Tyrion 2 says:
    @obwandiyag

    I suggest you don’t take up regular gambling.

  31. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Haxo Angmark

    shitskin

    You’re a charmer.

    UC Berkeley 1966-70, and in grad school @ Yale U/Columbia U 1971-4.

    Anything is possible. Given the above, I would suggest you visit your doctor for a dementia test though.

  32. Tyrion 2 says:
    @obwandiyag

    Values and intelligence are about values and intelligence, however they’re distributed. That’s obviously true.

  33. anarchyst says:

    I cannot take credit for this, but in light of our present situation, it is quite relevant:

    Author: Unknown

    For almost 150 years the United States has been conducting an interesting experiment. The subjects of the experiment: black people and working-class whites.

    The hypothesis to be tested: Can a people taken from the jungles of Africa and forced into slavery be fully integrated as citizens in a majority white population?

    [MORE]

    The whites were descendants of Europeans who had created a majestic civilization. The former slaves had been tribal peoples with no written language and virtually no intellectual achievements. Acting on a policy that was not fair to either group, the government released newly freed black people into a white society that saw them as inferiors. America has struggled with racial discord ever since.

    Decade after decade the problems persisted but the experimenters never gave up. They insisted that if they could find the right formula the experiment would work, and concocted program after program to get the result they wanted. They created the Freedman’s Bureau, passed civil rights laws, tried to build the Great Society, declared War on Poverty, ordered race preferences, built housing projects, and tried midnight basketball.

    Their new laws intruded into people’s lives in ways that would have been otherwise unthinkable. They called in National Guard troops to enforce school integration. They outlawed freedom of association. Over the protests of parents, they put white children on buses and sent them to black schools and vice versa. They tried with money, special programs, relaxed standards, and endless handwringing to close the “achievement gap.” To keep white backlash in check they began punishing public and even private statements on race. They hung up Orwellian public banners that commanded whites to “Celebrate Diversity!” and “Say No to Racism.” Nothing was off limits if it might salvage the experiment.

    Some thought that what W.E.B. Du Bois called the Talented Tenth would lead the way for black people. A group of elite, educated blacks would knock down doors of opportunity and show the world what blacks were capable of. There is a Talented Tenth. They are the black Americans who have become entrepreneurs, lawyers, doctors and scientists. But ten percent is not enough. For the experiment to work, the ten percent has to be followed by a critical mass of people who can hold middle-class jobs and promote social stability. That is what is missing.

    Through the years, too many black people continue to show an inability to function and prosper in a culture unsuited to them. Detroit is bankrupt, the south side of Chicago is a war zone, and the vast majority of black cities all over America are beset by degeneracy and violence. And blacks never take responsibility for their failures. Instead, they lash out in anger and resentment.

    Across the generations and across the country, as we have seen in Detroit, Watts, Newark, Los Angeles, Cincinnati, and now Ferguson, rioting and looting are just one racial incident away. The white elite would tell us that this doesn’t mean the experiment has failed. We just have to try harder. We need more money, more time, more understanding, more programs, and more opportunities.

    But nothing changes no matter how much money is spent, no matter how many laws are passed, no matter how many black geniuses are portrayed on TV, and no matter who is president. Some argue it’s a problem of “culture,” as if culture creates people’s behavior instead of the other way around. Others blame “white privilege.”

    But since 1965, when the elites opened America’s doors to the Third World, immigrants from Asia and India-people who are not white, not rich, and not connected have quietly succeeded. While the children of these people are winning spelling bees and getting top scores on the SAT, black “youths” are committing half the country’s violent crime-crime, which includes viciously punching random white people on the street for the thrill of it that has nothing to do with poverty.

    The experiment has failed. Not because of culture, or white privilege, or racism. The fundamental problem is that white people and black people are different. They differ intellectually and temperamentally. These differences result in permanent social incompatibility.

    Our rulers don’t seem to understand just how tired their white subjects are with this experiment. They don’t understand that white people aren’t out to get black people; they are just exhausted with them. They are exhausted by the social pathologies, the violence, the endless complaints, and the blind racial solidarity, the bottomless pit of grievances, the excuses, and the reflexive animosity.

    The elites explain everything with “racism,” and refuse to believe that white frustration could soon reach the boiling point.,.,

  34. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Anonymous

    Tell me about it right? Thats why poor White kids have better grades than the children of affirmative action blacks and the richest black suburb in prince george county Maryland has a higher rate of crime than many poor White areas

    I suspect the first fact is explained by the vastly disproportionate number of rich black Americans who get that way through the sports and entertainment industries. Of all the ways to get rich, those two probably correlate least well with high grades at school. Naturally, this passes onto their children.

    As for the higher crime rate in the predominantly black county in Maryland, a black high-flier is more likely to have difficult family than a white one. I assume that means that the oppositional culture of the black American ghetto finds way into wealthy black areas more than it does white ones. Also, a quick search tells Prince George’s County is far from a uniformly wealthy area. I suspect that small pockets may contribute a great deal to the crime.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  35. Humanities have been watered down (since the mid-60s, and beyond belief since the turn pf the century, to the point that people can’t figure what they would actually have to be about, and how difficult they would be (as difficult as all other academic lines).

    Social sciences are another matter: being “social” they are inherently ground for untruth.

  36. orionyx says:
    @obwandiyag

    I never thought I’d agree with you about anything, but I have to say that you’re right about football players (and wrong about most everything else, but it would be tedious to enumerate all your errors).
    Not just footballers, but all sports teams do not belong in a university, any more than fully-funded facilities of the sort found in high-end Caribbean resorts. They’re only there to help half-wits prolong their adolescence while enjoying the pleasures of adultery, and to keep the alumni donating to the institutional endowment, the cornucopia at which the administration gorge themselves.

  37. Without White there is no diversity or inclusion. Excluding White is racism.

    • Replies: @Whitewolf
  38. m___ says:
    @obwandiyag

    If the article is about statistical truth

    …then the article has it right.

    That has consequences, they should be accepted, on the basis of meritocracy and the common good. It would have been a good thing that academic achievement would cross the lines of group segregation, and cluster around achievement for the exceptions on merit, not emotion, and political shaping. That would mean the occasional Black fully integrated into the majority group of whatever racial group prevails. This sadly is not going to happen outside the working environment, since many other factors define group segregation outside of IQ and academic prowess. As a matter of fact, IQ, academic prowess, is pulled into group environments by the group majority mostly, seldom at the choice of the individual, and it is the group that sets the general score of factoring. IQ does not scale well, academic achievement is a lonely task.

    It seems that also with regard to Jew and White the same phenomenon of in-group first, plays out. Take our cherished unz.com environment, to our first impression, basically a majority Jew cluster, regardless of the stances promoted. Secondly unz.com being intent on masking this phenomenon to the outsider, while promoting it to the insider. We would like to see the “graph” of the larger collaborators and subcontracted services individuals, people involved in it’s financing, with the mention of who is Jewish and who is not. As to the commenters and readers, the peanut gallery, they seem to be dominantly White, above thirty years of age, and just gut feeling, above fifty years of age. Again that makes for in-group attitudes, being different. Christianity could explain that mindset probably.

    Of course that leaves “Jewish” to be defined. Not an easy thing since it seems harder to measure then IQ since there is no definition of “Jew” outside of a pertinent as convenient context, which gives us, admittedly trouble to make any statement. The not clearly defining Jew, being a design feature, not a bug, and not on our side.

    To get back to the piece and it’s author, Robert Weissberg, segregation, a natural defensive mechanism, should be lived with, since it is the broader human nature, and is manifest in all, Black, White, and Jew. The last group in the article conveniently left out.

    Working environments though, as academia, power-circles in general, opinion-makers, should be willing to accept the occasional Black, Jew, or Whitey in the whatever majority defined group supposedly, to collaborate on the basis of higher level opportunism, rationality, best advanced on the basis of merit. unz.com seems to allow for such. On the downside, for every Jewish contributor on unz.com there should not necessarily be a better writer, alas researcher, outside of the group. Making who does the writing, trivial to interchanges. On the upside, even if there were distinct outsiders to the dominating in-group, the kind of writing would make it trivial. Since success is measured in page-views, as such, fringe ideas and detail would hardly correspond to a first necessity.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    , @anarchyst
  39. @obwandiyag

    Dumb, insulting and arrogant is no way to go through life, son. Especially when monopolizing three of the first four comments.

    • Replies: @Reuben Kaspate
  40. @Anonymous78

    Armenians were the original settlers in California who immigrated their fleeing the Ottoman Empire in the late 1800’s. Like the Kardashians. They are not new to the US.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    , @Svigor
  41. Avery says:

    {Today’s diversity mania with its dumbing down of the humanities and social sciences (and perhaps even the hard sciences)}

    Dumbing down, even further, humanities and social ‘sciences’ is a good thing: they ought to be dumbed down to the level of quackery.
    Social ‘sciences’? What a joke.

    However, dumbing down hard sciences, STEM, would be terrible.
    There are countries and societies in this world which are not afflicted by Western hallucinations and will race ahead in technological achievements.

    • Replies: @Authenticjazzman
  42. @m___

    our first impression, basically a majority Jew cluster, regardless of the stances promoted. Secondly unz.com being intent on masking this phenomenon to the outsider, while promoting it to the insider

    Clear as mud, but I always admire people who know the intentions of other people.

    • Replies: @m___
  43. Nonny says:
    @jim jones

    Powerful statistics! 100 percent!!

  44. This guy needs to learn to use the subjunctive, suggesting that he might be a sociologist.

    • Replies: @Truth
  45. anon[421] • Disclaimer says:
    @niteranger

    Heather MacDonald’s book “The Diversity Delusion” is a thorough
    investigation of the decline of Academia in the US and elsewhere.
    The root of the rot is the result of the “deconstruction” of European
    Civilization rampaging through the ivy halls. The intellectual pillars
    of all this are attributed to Marx, Freud and Nietzsche: two Jews and a
    guy from Saxony who went crazy at age 49.

  46. @obwandiyag

    I know its tough to be a black academic knowing in the back of your mind that your colleagues are hyper aware of your preferential hiring and walk on eggshells knowing your fragile ego.

    • Replies: @Reuben Kaspate
    , @Truth
  47. TG says:

    A key point: I think a lot of the press for ‘diversity’ is simply universities trying to jam in more students, in order to increase tuition revenues.

    More and more graduate programs in the sciences are no longer requiring the standardized GRE exam for entry. Nominally to ‘enhance diversity’ and ‘allow students to be evaluated for things like resilience and creativity,’ IMHO there is one very simple reason: to lower the standards so that enrollment quotas can be met.

    It’s like the old Soviet Union: if the factory has a quota of producing a thousand tractors in a year, it’s going to produce a thousand tractors in a year. They might be made of cardboard and have square wheels, but there will be 1000 tractors.

    Graduate programs are under enormous administrative pressure to maintain enrollment levels, if they don’t they could lose accreditation etc. So if there aren’t enough qualified students to meet the annual quota…

    Follow the money.

    • Replies: @republic
    , @Kratoklastes
  48. Avery says:
    @Anonymous78

    {Decades ago,…..A week later,…..IN WEST ARMENIAN DIALECT}

    It is possible, but I find it hard to believe.

    Today it is true, but decades ago California DMV offered test in Armenian? I don’t know.
    And the sign must have made a strong impression on you that you remember it so clearly decades later. (btw: the sign would say “Western” Armenian, not “West” Armenian)

    In any case, the whole idea of offering DMV tests in languages other than English is absurd. How are drivers who cannot read English and pass the DMV test going to read all the fwy signs, CalTrans warnings and such and such which are all in English.

  49. Agent76 says:

    Sep 21, 2018 How Ivy League schools can destroy American values

    Around three years ago, I stumbled upon a TEDx talk by Sharyl Atkisson, formerly of CBS News. She talked about a term unfamiliar to me then – “astroturfing” and the manipulation of the media.

  50. anarchyst says:
    @m___

    It’s not “smarts” or “IQ” that gives jews an advantage over gentile whites, but is their rabid insistence on cultural and social cohesiveness, insularity and nepotism (but only for themselves) that gives them an “advantage”. This same cultural and social cohesiveness that is prized so highly by jewish interests is denied to gentile whites. Jews, to a man will fight to deny this same cultural and social cohesiveness to gentile whites that they themselves enjoy as it is a major part of the jewish purpose–the destruction of gentile white culture, which IS superior to any jewish cultural or social society. If jews did not possess this power, they would most likely be rag merchants, liquor merchants, or furniture merchants–nothing more. As I have previously stated, jewish success is based on cultural and social cohesiveness and insularity–NOT “smarts” or “IQ”. Once enough jews get into a position of power in the work world or education systems, they will hire and promote their own, bypassing more qualified gentile white candidates.
    Jews have latched on to cultural cohesiveness and nepotism, as it serves their purpose exceedingly well.
    At the same time, jews pushed the concept of racial “equality”, (but only for gentile whites), backing it up with “civil-rights” and “equal accommodation” laws which are enforced by governments—in the United States, at the point of bayonets–but only against whites. These “civil-rights” laws are used as a “battering ram” against gentile whites to diffuse and fragment any semblance of gentile white solidarity and cohesiveness that may arise.
    A great reckoning dealing with the jews is coming. As gentile whites become more marginalized, the accusation of being tagged as “racist” or a “holocaust denier” is rapidly losing its “sting”.
    Increasingly, jews are more wary of being “called out” and recognized as “jews”. One can call a jew a shyster, shylock, bankster, criminal or ne-er-do-well, and it will roll off his back like water off a duck, BUT call a jew a “jew” and he will recoil in horror, having been “found out”.

  51. Anon[253] • Disclaimer says:
    @obwandiyag

    You are as funny as you are stupid. As a retired Medical School Professor I have to say that the author is kind in his assessment of Blacks and Browns. Dumb is just the beginning. Tell me is White Supremacy something like Pornography used to be. I can’t define it but I know what it is when I see it. What Skool did you go to? Montgomery Ward U? Not all blacks are dumb, look at Barry the Genius Nobel Prize winner. Oh, wait, he is only part black. But then he sure was not an Intellectual. Just a Grifter making lots of money lying and tricking people.

  52. “an ill-prepared black student…his very presence helps classmates prepare for a more heterogeneous world, helps diminish negative race-related stereotypies all the while boosting US global economic competitiveness.”

    There was a demonstration from the 1970’s that illustrated the dietary benefits of fresh food vs. processed food. It utilized a common tool employed by both chemists and biologists, blotter paper chromatography. When a drop of a solution of the sample is placed on properly prepared paper, it spreads out radially. As it does so, the constituent chemicals are deposited out in concentric circles according to their solubility.

    The example I’m discussing compared the chronographs produced by freshly squeezed orange juice, frozen orange juice and Tang (the then popular space-aged beverage that supposedly was used as a supplement by astronauts).

    The chronograph produced by the diffusion of Tang was a pattern of three pale rings of lifeless, anemic color. That produced by the frozen orange juice consisted of more rings which were more brightly colored. That made by the freshly squeezed juice consisted of maybe a dozen brightly colored rings. It was obviously more “alive” and, containing more vitamins and nutrients, more complex and “vibrant”.

    When I mentioned this to a friend, I praised the superiority of the more complex juice. He responded that that in itself wasn’t a sufficient reason to believe that it was superior inasmuch as simplicity could also be thought of as a virtue. But, I answered him, both were equally “simple” in that they both acted out their nature in the same lawful manner. It took Nature no more effort to do the one than the other. To which he said nothing.

    The point is, the relatively weak, impoverished mind of black students cannot add “diversity” to the rich, full-bodied colors of the mature white students’ minds. They cannot because the minds of both obey the same Laws of development. The weaker is not virtuous by virtue of its “simplicity” or the naivety it brings to bear on each situation. It’s just plain plainer, less sophisticated, less nuanced, less complex and less well filled out. It is inferior precisely because it lacks vibrancy!

    • Replies: @ThreeCranes
  53. @obwandiyag

    Of course you’re right. The 30 white football players ruin the educational experience of the other 44,970 students at a state school. How they do this since they generally live by themselves in a dedicated football dorm and eat in a restricted dining hall is a mystery.

    Tell us, magic obwandiyag, how this is accomplished.

    • Replies: @216
    , @republic
  54. @ThreeCranes

    “chronograph” ?????

    Da*n spell check.

  55. Wally says:
    @Gene

    Yet you say nothing of the very real anti white racism found on campuses and in the media.

    You say nothing of the Jews First racism that Ron Unz documented in the Ivy League schools.

    You say nothing of the overwhelming violent crimes stats of blacks on whites.

    You ignore the fact that is was black Africans who enabled the slave trade by selling THEIR slaves to predominately Jew slave dealers.

    Communists always ignore the facts.

  56. @Nancy Pelosi's Latina Maid

    You lazy wetback! Had you gotten up at 11:25 P.M. GMT to post comments instead of taking a siesta until 2:32 P.M. GMT to post a retort, you would have had been the owner of earliest comments…

    • LOL: atlantis_dweller
  57. Wally says:
    @Dacian Julien Soros

    “It’s demonstrably true that most of the whites going to college are idiots who need remedial classes, because they couldn’t learn the stuff taught in high school.”

    Please ‘demonstrate’ it.

    “Yes, they might have to go to another college, 200 miles away from home, or 2K more expensive, but it’s still a college.”

    IOW, they ARE discrminated against.

    You just debunked your own position.

  58. @swami_cuckenstein

    Swami, oh my little swami, how I love you, how I love you, oh, my little swami…

  59. @Wally

    Christopher Lasch, ‘The Culture of Narcissism, American Life in an Age of Diminishing Expectations’, 1979, 1980, London
    Devastating description of the USA college and high school system

  60. @Anon

    Tell me is White Supremacy something like Pornography used to be. I can’t define it but I know what it is when I see it.

    Your ideas, and of those living in Pompeï, seem to differ somewhat

  61. @anarchyst

    but is their rabid insistence on cultural and social cohesiveness, insularity and nepotism (but only for themselves) that gives them an “advantage”

    This is indeed the explanation of antisemitism one finds in
    ‘From prejudice to destruction’, Jacob Katz, 1980, Cambridge MA

    • Replies: @anarchyst
  62. @anarchyst

    Well said, I agree. Heck, we all agree. This situation, this experiment is not fair to either side. No one is happy. The solution is obvious, Africa is big enough for all the blacks out there. Good weather, plenty of rivers, good soil, all they need to do is plant some seeds and enjoy life. No need for diplomas of any kind.

  63. anon[218] • Disclaimer says:

    I was talking to my sister at xmas, we both have pre-school age twin grandchildren, Hers attend an
    upscale Houston school and are learning Mandarin. We noted how many twins there are these days
    and she said that hers were called the “just white” twins as they were the only ones not mixed race.

  64. In otherwords, the article says, in an effort to correct the discriminatory practices against black citizens, we decided to eschew the standards, required to performance and excellence. Instead of retrenching the elementary, and society consequences of discrimination we just lowered standards and the result is that black citizens are “dumb”.

    Laugh.

    I am a lousy writer. I take full responsibility for that. Should my instructors held a tougher line — they probably did. But out of the system, the pressure off — I just don’t do the work. Either way, it’s on me.

    But the article’s logic is faulty.

    1. They are complaining about an obvious deficit in their choices of educational teaching and standards

    2. they are the blaming the inclusion of blacks.

    That simply is not the problem and it never was. The problem is that the system denied adequate teaching to blacks, worse, actually discouraged teaching blacks at all. Now clearly plenty of intelligent blacks managed to develop their own systems. But how many could retrench the entire population of blacks under discriminatory conditions is tough to know. It’s hard enough to do so when the standards are status quo as the number of poorly educated whites in whites in positions of power, money and influence make clear.

    The real issue:

    1. problem a dumb idea not to ensure that former slaves did not have access to a full fledged education in the primary areas of study

    2. probably a dumb idea to deny those blacks access to employment so that even if segregated they could further extend adequate social tiers to promote a sound education system/ instead of the separate but unequal nonsense used to ensure that vast numbers would be cooks, maids, and car mechanics and field hands

    3. probably a dumb idea to bar those blacks that did qualify from avenues of advancement in all ares of US citizenship life.

    4. probably a dumb idea to import even less intelligent foreigners in order to deny millions of blacks access

    5. probably a dumb idea to blame blacks for dumb decisions creating a system that failed to actually address the issue which is not diversity, but discrimination against a select population.

    I would question the validity of this particular academy that engaged in all of the above, it seems. It might be a good idea to examine the efficacy of the above assessment by looking at similar academies who did not avoid the issue of lowering standards to redress a problem that practiced the same dumb ideas.

    Grade inflation regardless of skin color is going to have consequences.

  65. m___ says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Clear as mud,

    To scrape away some of the mud, it seems to us that the “problem” should be a simple con-stat.

    Either Whites agree on denouncing the other (Jew, Muslim, Black, Hispanic, Chinese…) his in-group attitudes, which did not, does not work, (it is not hard to agree upon)

    …or Whites step away from ignoring that all other groups do have in-group attitudes, prevailing over family, tribe, class, territory, and religion. These and other factors (age, gender, on a per individual basis) cause endless possibilities of break lines according to any situation, any moment in time. The duck and weave of boxing. Confusing most men-brains into pulp. Including the corrupting of White individuals as straw men drivingJewish in-group interests, away from their prime group interests, since these academics and power players, cannot understand that they thus undermine their long-time credibility and power base (hence Trump-y phenomenons occurring, as certain as climate change). It simply is the Christian roots for one, the Enlightenment another, that equality is a bright light. And it could be, only such a strategy does not work when all other players, play foul.

    Agreeing on deciding that all of the above factors are subject to there own Whiteness as a group foremost (not territory, not class, not religion, not age, not gender) should be a start. Thus leveling the playing field should be the strategy and goal of our Whites that can and would dominantly matter, not denouncing the foul play, but changing the rules. As greed is good in capitalism, one cannot fight in-group attitudes but with equal arms. As to Blacks, Muslims, their in-group attitudes reflect the more primitive extroverts of crime, and breeding wars, less dangerous then the Jewish sophistication of operating media, finance and any key fields that reshuffle society, the social texture and structure of it, in the West. The last strategy as an over-layer, co-opting the more primitive group cohesions of Blacks and name it, is deadly.

    The interesting sub-note, is that Jews between each other submit to any individual abuse as such as secondary to being and belonging as a Jew. The equivalent would be the White Anglo Saxon elites of the US not selling out to the Jewish money power as individuals, regardless of their disdain for the white trash, the deplorable, class phenomena. A touch of Jew is what fails the White middle classes and elites dearly.

    Did we forget to mention the Chinese?

    To get back to the article. The bottom line indeed is talent, White talent. If not present then let’s shop elsewhere. A very Jewish attitude to be adopted by Whites if they want to return to significance.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    , @Whitewolf
  66. m___ says:
    @anarchyst

    Mostly agree. See our ditto sequel comment on attitudes to be adopted openly, covertly and significantly.

  67. Truth says:
    @joeshittheragman

    I don’t know about the near future, Yung Sport, but guys like you will corner the sex market eventually: I’d estimate 2857 AD.

  68. Truth says:
    @swami_cuckenstein

    Yeah that is a little tough. But dude, try fighting an agressive white coed off!

  69. Imagine if all the billions thrown away promoting DIRE (DIversity and REsentment) had been spent on STEM (Sci, Tech, Engineering, Math). I mean, China have just landed on far side of the fucking moon. Meanwhile, the USAs infrastructure is nearing collapse.

    • Replies: @Truth
  70. @obwandiyag

    Yes. But the argument is over how many we should expect before protesting.

  71. @m___

    Quite sorry, read it twice, but the mud remains.
    Possibly just white inferiority.

    • Agree: Wizard of Oz
    • Replies: @m___
  72. Truth says:
    @TelfoedJohn

    I mean, China have just landed on far side of the fucking moon.

    {…Smirk…Chortle}

  73. @EliteCommInc.

    In otherwords, the article says, in an effort to correct the discriminatory practices against black citizens,

    First thing to do is showing that these discriminatory practices exist.
    Would be coloured actresses and tv presentators in the Netherlands assert they do not get the jobs they want just because they’re coloured.
    Discrimination.
    There is no protest of discrimination about train drivers still for, say 99%, are white.
    All applicants are tested in the same way, a high % of those with migration background simply are not good enough.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  74. @obwandiyag

    Middle and upper class blacks are more likely to be bi-racial, thus, let’s face it, have higher average IQ’s than dark blacks. I don’t know how these young Obama’s (white mother, black father) think about it, but calling them black denies their white part, doesn’t it? Perhaps some are offended when labeled black, especially if they are smart and don’t need affirmative action to succeed.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
    , @anonymous
  75. What a bunch of idiots. Scrabbling around to find some kind of justification for their simple-minded prejudices. Poorly-written justifications.

    • Replies: @Sowhat
  76. @EliteCommInc.

    You may not write felicitously. But your words are very true. Doesn’t matter. These people skip your truths to get on with their lies.

  77. Complete idiot on here blames US failures in keeping up with science, failing in everything, actually, on diversity. What chumps you people are. One could sell you the Brooklyn Bridge and the Empire State Building too with a few trumped-up statistics.

    I wonder if they pay chumps to go on here for a quarter a post and try to divert tender minds from criticizing the rich, which is where the criticism always ought to go, into criticizing identity groups.

    You are all IPWs, Identity Politics Warriors. And yet you blame the SJWs for being IPWs. Why, mirabile dictu–you are both exactly the same!

    Just like the Democrats and the Republicans. Both talking about the wrong things. All de liblong day.

  78. anarchyst says:
    @jilles dykstra

    An “anti-semite” is someone who has recognized the jews’ “game”…

  79. The article puts off serious questions: Is this a situation of Quality superior education vrs Diversity? Explosion of pseudo sciences fields such as Gender studies, White Privilege , Ethnic Studies and social fragmentation of the American Nation…etc. A couple stories : I once asked a room full of college students if they would buy a Japanese car or an American made car, 90% said a Japanese car..why? quality/price …softening academic standards produces substandard (car)engineers, .I have met intelligent, articulate, brilliant college black/Hispanic students 98% of them come from private schooling backgrounds, raised with both parents in a middle class household, and usually from SOUTHERN states???? many from BLACK only institutions with schools with strong traditional American values!!!..Has diversity transform the composition of the Fortune500 CEO boards…investors demand RESULTS (profits) not diversity etiquette…Has the Black Middle Class in the USA increase/decrease due to diversity in colleges???…I would bet that most blacks do not make it to college mainly because of Economic related factors and academic performance, BUT due to OPEN border policies which undermines decrease UNION membership, and pushes SKILLED American workers (blacks/whites) out of the labor markets due to poverty level wages. Lastly the fight should not be in college close to 70% of black, Hispanic students DO NOT graduate from HSchool, URBAN K-12th education is horrible failure mainly due to diversity policies, teachers UNION control of School Boards ELECTIONS…and school budgets (BILLIONS)for union executives. Blacks used to make up about 70% of vocational occupations (masons, electricians, carpenters etc.) public sector labor (postal service), middle management in private companies and now????? not getting a job because YOU are not Bilingual in Spanish!!!! PD ironically the corrupt UNION leadership (SEIU) protesting against Trump when UNION membership is up, and manufacturing is booming…

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  80. @niteranger

    Nice find. It walks, talks and quacks just like the same stupidity that led to AIDS denialism.

    From the article:

    “We still have this more Westernized view: You sit in a mathematics class on topology or abstract algebra, with zero idea about which context it applies to,” he says. Pointing to the current water and energy crises in South Africa, he argues that math should be taught with concrete applications in mind, rather than purely theoretically, which is a luxury afforded only by the West.

    News flash. There’s a department two doors down called ‘engineering’, which is underpinned by mathematics. You fucking dolt.

    And these two gems:

    Centering mathematics around deductive proof, as formal mathematics does, is mistaken, according to Raju. He argues that an overreliance on pure reason can lead to false knowledge…

    “Truths in mathematics are never absolute, but must always be understood as relative to a background system,” writes Paul Ernest, a philosopher of mathematics at the University of Exeter

    I had to have a lie-down after reading that article.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    , @Russ
  81. m___ says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Quite sorry but the mud remains…

    Glanced over your comment body, some very interesting hind-sights on historical sources.

  82. I wonder if they pay chumps to go on here for a quarter a post and try to divert tender minds from criticizing the rich

    No one is pushing diversity more than the ultra-rich:

  83. @jilles dykstra

    When I lived in South Africa, I worked for the national electricity utility ESKOM. The black employees made no secret that they wanted ‘jobs’, not ‘work’. It would be funny if it wasn’t so retarded.

    In the early 90’s ESKOM was a leader in deploying world-class engineering systems. I recall seeing delegations from Sweden and Germany visiting a new 700kV substation while I was a lowly technician.

    Now the company struggles to keep the lights on. Soon it will be as bad as California.

    • Replies: @Anon
  84. crimson2 says:

    I left the academy in 2002

    The true miracle was all the racist professors retiring.

  85. macilrae says:

    I struggled through the baffling punctuation of this piece and came out finding that I agree with the professor in most of what he says. For sure affirmative action in a medical school is a pretty scary proposition.

    In his field of Political Science, however, I would really not have thought it makes too much difference. Perhaps I am prejudiced after seeing the end-products of these programs at work in government.

  86. 36 ulster says:
    @Gene

    Gene, your trolling is totally devoid of humour–however unintentionally; you are definitely no Tiny Duck.

  87. This obwandiyag should shut his pie-hole!

    What an embarrassment his ill-considered words are to his fellows, and what a great inadvertent corroboration of the author’s points. Quite simply, he’s ‘whistling in the dark’: HOPING that his contention might be true, or become true — smart enough to know that it sure ain’t true, now.

  88. @anarchyst

    Sharing a place requires acceptance of hierarchy, with the senior-to-junior and junior-to-senior dominance implications.
    If the involved parties don’t agree, separation is the only viable alternative.

    But there’s no purpose to crying out “injustice!” when you see them gladly together, because it means the submitting are as comfortable with their lot as the submitted-to (this applies to nations, “communities”, down to the familial social unit).

    An independent observer may fancy the submitting be starved for independence; he’s just projecting, and if he tries to undo the dominant-submissive bond, the angriest reaction will come to him from the submissive party rather than the submitted-to.

    Plough your own furrow, you who are independent, and don’t meddle with the others’ affairs — don’t try to impose the burden of self-determination on the submissive, and don’t expect their forbearance if you do.

    • Replies: @byrresheim
  89. @The King is a Fink

    “Truths in mathematics are never absolute, but must always be understood as relative to a background system,” writes Paul Ernest, a philosopher of mathematics at the University of Exeter

    I’m skating on thin ice, but are there any truths in mathematics ?
    Non Eucludian geometry does exist, even is useful, say those who understand far more than I do of mathematics.
    But if my understanding of non Eucludian geometry is correct, the basis is that two parrallel lines cross at an infinite distance.
    Now I’d say this is simply untrue.
    Now suppose I’m right, I suppose not, but for the sake of argument.
    If I’m right, what must I think about the intellectual level of a philosopher of mathematics at a British university ?

  90. @Martin Luther

    The article puts off serious questions: Is this a situation of Quality superior education vrs Diversity?

    That such a question is asked in my opinion already is a sign of deep degeneration of education and/or science.
    Diversity and (level of) education, science, have nothing to do with each other.
    Diversity has to do with discrimination, or the idea of discrimination.
    Science is about facts, if I drop an apple how long does it take to reach the ground.
    Around 1955 I calculated the height of the Arc de Triomphe in Paris with a coin and a watch.
    Blue, green or purple coloured people with any knowledge of Newton would have calculated the same height.

  91. Sowhat says:
    @obwandiyag

    I am 100% white and agree with you. My parents wisely trained me not to be prejudiced. Racist will always exist. Like termites, they peek out from within the dark crevices. When poked, they start to swarm.

    • Troll: MikeatMikedotMike
    • Replies: @anon
    , @Svigor
  92. the lead article like this pisses me off!

    no matter what they say the ghetto experience is a stultifying one intellectually and as long as that is where diversity students come out from, entering white institutions of education they will never be able to compete.

    these students have no orientation in the social life that feeds the university. and that content rips them off, teaches them exploitation..essential to exploit themselves. success in the real world of american capitalism is opposed to their who existence.

    but lets say another social ambient emerges..like the ghetto rises up, toss the exploiters and elongate a way to deal with their problems in their own way, setting up the ghetto for success and all are involved it is participatory making a success for themselves in their own way look out! night and day

    that is a different matter altogether. they now do not have to do anything they do not want to do. overnight all their potentials are unlocked, learning relatively becomes easy..it is learning to earn and be free in a world over which they have control. it is not learning to be white in the world in which white is exploitative to the most rabid degree.

    what in the hell do the black people, diverse people do with the education they get now, in those institutions, regardless of their level of facility in it.. or at it?

    the only way Black people will do well is to turn around their general social ambient to a routinely positive one, in an orientation that is set up with their interest as base.. and they are involved in the running of it from the start, were involved in the conception and development of it

    Doctoral dissertations my eye. what are they going to do with it? join up in telling and retelling, the oceans of white lies that dominate human consciousness and general discourse? that is what has them in the ghetto in the first place

    the most brilliant Black Americans are involved in the redemption and reclamation of Black history. look at the terrific volume and quality of work they have produced in that area of academia. isn’t obvious why?

    there they have control and create themselves..recreate actually. there is light at the end of that tunnel for Black people by their own hand.

    Instead of wasting all the money in diversity at white institutions allocate the money to the ghetto, work with Black colleges and universities in developing the ghetto.

    in fact forget about the money. keep it. simply remove the wraps on Black people period, on the ghetto: get the cops out and let the ghetto take care of itself. that solves everything

    a man like Weissberg should know all this. he surely does and that makes this lead article a fraud. a propaganda to keep the wasteful crap going on, to keep Black people down, and those who are allowed to be active are allowed to do so in circumstances that can never meet their needs, conditions for which they have no preps at all..not even a day of preps before entering

    this is more bloody Khazar nonsense

    • Replies: @bike-anarkist
  93. @Anon

    Liar trolls always give personal details. That are lies.

  94. Forbes says:
    @Gene

    Name-calling, e.g. bigot, racist, is what people do when they lack a coherent argument. Usually, the first, last, and only resort of a prog-lefty. Shameless is what I’d call it.

  95. 216 says:
    @ThreeCranes

    Football is the most popular intercollegiate sport in most universities among spectators. Mens basketball is usually the second most popular. Almost every single NCAA athletic department is a monetary drain on the institution.

    Athletic departments sustain themselves via (tax-deductible) alumni donations and “student fees” that don’t show up in the “tuition sticker price”.

    While the NFL is 70% black, football becomes much whiter the lower you go on the food chain. The white alumni are willing to fork over donations (look up how much Phil Knight has donated) for sports, but usually less eager for something tangible like more academic scholarships. If there were nil white athletes in the big two sports, I suspect donations would disappear. So white athletes are the enablers.

    Universities have been dumbed down in countries like the UK, where intercolligiate athletics is largely absent. So you can’t entirely blame sports, but they clearly aren’t helping.

  96. 216 says:
    @Dacian Julien Soros

    The institution attended has a major impact on career prospects.

    Being denied from an Ivy and relegated to a lower-tier institution denies the targeted group (YT) access to the networking benefits. So while anyone can still “go to college”, and anyone can attend a state flagship with a modicum of effort, the springboard to political and corporate power is concentrated in a handful of institutions.

    • Replies: @Dacian Julien Soros
  97. The US and Europe are committing collective suicide by enforcing “diversity” at the expense of achievement. It should be said that the promotion of mental disorders that result in sexual deviations (LGBT schtick) hurts the US and Europe at least as much as racist quotas. Meanwhile, competing countries that do not subscribe to PC BS, like China and Russia, are surging ahead, making the Empire and its sidekicks hysterical.

    Shooting yourself in the foot and then complaining that it hurts is the stupidest behavior imaginable.

    • Agree: Ron Unz
  98. @jilles dykstra

    One need not be a history major, a sociologist to know basic US history regarding our polity and socialization of the black population. There are plenty of scholarly books and research on the question of discrimination — painfully easy to reference and by all accounts unquestionable.

    I have not combed this articles references. Eventually I will. However,

    I am confident that if Mrs Heather Macdonald is the highlight of advocacy on the matter, I can rest easy. Her work regarding the war on police is woefully under supported by data – not to mention contradicted in real world experience. Her modeling for the Fergason Effect was incorrect and her data selection not only too small, it was deliberately selective and even then, it did not make the case.

    So if she in a primary advocate here — I rest easy.

    ———————————–

    but making an argument based on violations of the standards and them calling out the subjects who neither created the standards nor demanded they be broken is a deeply flawed mechanism. Because that has nothing to do with diversity of skin color.

    Includes the one drop rule approach

    http://www.nsbe.org/home.aspx

    https://nsbp.org/

    https://famous-mathematicians.com/10-famous-black-mathematicians-and-their-contributions/

    You have to measure comparable samples.

    ________________________________

    I have to be honest here. I can only speculate that whatever discrimination that occurred across the country in nearly every area applied to driving trains as a well. But I am comfortable in saying, a black who had the prerequisite skills and opportunity could in all likelihood drive a train as effectively as anyone else of comparable knowledge.

    I am not a democrat. I have no intention of being a democrat. I am not an advocate for crime or unwed mothers.

  99. David says:
    @niteranger

    But when I studied math, all my best professors were Jews. Of ten professors that taught me math, seven were Jews: some good, some great. There were two WASPs, i.e., of my tribe, who were ridiculously bad teachers, one in a likable way and one not. There was a Vietnamese guy that was also a joke. So Jews batting 1000 in my view, all others zero, where college math is concerned.

    Edit: I just remembered that I dropped a WASPs’ calc 2 after one class, went to my Jew Calc 1 professor and got a recommendation to take it with the great Peter Lax, my greatest professor of all.

    • Replies: @Svigor
  100. @follyofwar

    laughing.

    That is funny. I don’t the numbers will tell that story. But it is funny. black white marriages I think average out to less than seven percent and the resulting children even less.

    • Replies: @follyofwar
  101. @Wally

    “56 percent of African American students and 45 percent of Latino students enroll in remedial courses nationwide, compared with 35 percent of white students.” OK, it’s not a majority of you who get waived into the college, it’s “only 35%”. Obviously, if patent stupidity did not prevent these 35% of Caucasians from entering college, how would the handful black (9.8% at the last count) take away your precious slots?

    Have you finished learning all the letters? It’s a genuine question, given that if 1/3 of your Caucasian-college ubermensch cohort couldn’t master the deep secrets of grade 12. TBH, after seeing American undergrads in their natural habitat, I thought that 90% of them were admitted on their ability to play lacrosse, or through some other special-needs program.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @Rich
  102. @Ben Sampson

    The most enlightening comment on this thread!

    All the problems that befall our society (North American) are economic. Plus those that have been able to cultivate entitlement default to a narcissistic world view that compares the viewed ‘less thans” to themselves and exclaim, “What is their problem”?

    This is expressed quite visibly in our choices of transportation. The entitled want their “Tezla, or Merc Benz, BMW etc” before the consideration of other transport modes like Public transit (Hah! Peasant wagon!) or bike (What’s wrong buddy, can’t pay your way?). Rather than the diverse fact that “anybody can take a bus”, but not everyone can drive.

    I read Gilad Atzmon’s “Being in Time”, and one of the most illuminating points he makes is the concept of “Cognative Partitioning”, based on the Bell Curve. Put any attribute on the X-axis, $$, IQ, credentials etc., and what happens is that on the right-hand tail, those that are partioned into the “in-group” can only see the world from a group-reinforced perpesctive.

    Which fully explains the viewpoint of the writer.

    • Replies: @Authenticjazzman
  103. @216

    So, in short, you are concerned that blacks go to MIT and Harvard, and deprive you of your well-deserved “access to the old boys” network?

    Do you think that Kushner wouldn’t be Kushner without a Harvard degree and “Harvard networking”? Do you think Romney owes a lot to BYU, or is it the other way around? What was more important for Buffett, his University of Nebraska degree, or his Congressman dad?

    It is not true that “good universities” make future powerful leaders, as much as it unlikely Trump owes it to his other accessories (model wife, gaudy home, TV fame, others). The rich people go to university already rich. The poor people usually come out just as poor. The smart people cam out of them just as smart. The others got only to the lesson on “bigly”. School prestige follow your SES, but do not change it. In that sense, the few house blacks that the Ivies recruit are not taking anything from you.

    Admiring people from Harvard for education is no different from admiring them for their expensive watches. Yes, they spent a lot, but their watches don’t show a better date and time, and their schools did not educate them more than they would have been educated in your school. They did it because they knew idiots will look up to them with envy. You are playing their game.

    • Replies: @216
  104. 216 says:
    @Dacian Julien Soros

    Mr. and Mrs. Obama would have been unheard of if they’d graduated from UIUC.

    • Replies: @Dacian Julien Obama
  105. anon[227] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sowhat

    Termites are microscopic insects.
    You’ll only see where they’ve been, not whether or not there’s a swarmin’ happening.

  106. Anon[347] • Disclaimer says:
    @obwandiyag

    LOL. naXalt indeed.

    “Some” and “many” are meaningless terms. You might be one of those students who did not progress to graduate research.

    But the real problem is stupidity everywhere.

    Nah. We didn’t have issues with your “real problem” when our group invented the University system, the modern educational system in general, and developed almost all of the subject science and arts ourselves.

    I have had enough family who have taught in Black secondary and middle schools to know what the score is. Trust me when I state that stupidity on that level is not everywhere.

    If this chump thinks whites are smart and blacks dumb, he is either lying or dumb himself.

    Ouch. Your bruised ego is visible. Don’t worry. It doesn’t hurt as much as what we have and give up to accommodate you.

  107. Anon[347] • Disclaimer says:
    @obwandiyag

    This is satire, correct?

    Any teacher who actually has experience teaching in college knows that it is the football players who disrupt, dumb-down, intimidate, destroy whatever actual education can be eked out.

    This leads me to believe that you haen’t actually gone to college. This statement doesn’t remotely comport with reality on any significant campus in the nation.

    Eradicate football programs and colleges will become academic and rigorous again.

    Rigor was in full effect on campuses for almost the entire history of collegiate football. When I was in school, which wasn’t that long ago, it still was. If rigor is decreased in any department where it prior existed to any significant degree, it isn’t because of the football players.

    Anyone who is looking for rigor does not have a major in anything that football players who are not looking for it are enrolling. That’s how I know that you don’t know what you are talking about.

    • Replies: @obwandiyag
  108. @216

    Only mentally weak people judge a whole world by a solitary anecdote. Statistics exist for a reason. But again, I am talking to the famous US White college graduate, who is 35% likely to struggle with high school maths, so who am I fooling?

    But, lowering myself to your level, let me explain to you that Obama’s mother is of a much high SES than you and your family. Your mum might have waited his mum’s table. Similarly, Michelle’s father got more votes than you ever will. If they were going to a different university, they might not be “heard of”, but he’d still be richer than you, because their families were richer than yours.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  109. @Dacian Julien Soros

    An interesting point you make out of that 35 per cent and 9 per cent. I reply so as to remember it. Mind you I wonder how good those stats on enrollments on remedial courses really are.

  110. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @The King is a Fink

    Most California electricity is in the hands of private companies whose mandated affirmative action blacks aren’t allowed near the electrical equipment.

    Los Angeles Water and Power is a county agency. Buy the dumb dumb blacks don’t get anywhere near any equipment. Liberals hate LA Water and Power because it’s the Whitest government agency in the state

    As the White male Water and Power guys say, the important word is Power.

  111. anon44 says:

    This is your world on “Jews”… Any questions?

    • Replies: @apollonian
  112. anonymous[378] • Disclaimer says:
    @Tyrion 2

    ‘the oppositional culture of the black American ghetto finds way into wealthy black areas more than it does white ones’

    It cannot find its way in. It is in and of itself not something that has agency. Good values, oppertunities and social cohesiveness do not surge through neighbourhoods. It is the people themselves that bring these with them. Rich black neighbourhoods have more crime (to follow the deprivation causes crime argument there should not be any crime) because blacks are less moral and more prone to crime generally.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Tyrion 2
  113. Rich says:
    @Dacian Julien Soros

    I’m acquainted with a young White fellow from a working class family who scored a 1560 on his SATs, was a varsity athlete and a straight A student. He was admitted to only one Ivy League school and wait-listed at two others. If his skin pigmentation had been darker, he’d have received full scholarship offers to every Ivy. The local paper on Long Island used to do a yearly story on the black kid who got admitted to every Ivy, their scores were always much lower than this young man’s, and probably many other White kids, and is probably why the paper stopped publishing the info.

    Promotion based on merit builds a better society for everyone, low IQ and high. When you promote unqualified blacks, then add in nepotism, the society will decline. We are in a decline, now.

  114. anonymous[378] • Disclaimer says:
    @follyofwar

    Look up jack and jill parties. Look up the paper bag test at black fraternities.

  115. anonymous[378] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    ‘Armenians were the original settlers in California ‘

    Ah yes the famous ‘Armenian spanish mission’ style architecture.

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
  116. anonymous[378] • Disclaimer says:
    @anarchyst

    William Pierce

    • Replies: @anarchyst
  117. Russ says:
    @The King is a Fink

    My choice of gem from the article:

    “The perception that math is disconnected from black lives may be perpetuated by the field’s distorted history, which often centers on the achievements of white men. “There was an erasure of contributions from the developing world and people of color,” says Fasiha Hassan, deputy president of the South African Union of Students. “We would acknowledge where it really comes from.””

    Damned whitey! Bad enough that whitey pilfers the smarts from his darker brethren. Does whitey stop there? NO! Whitey simultaneously and ruthlessly induces such a profound amnesia in the dusky victims that they can’t recall a _thing_ about that robbed from them. Most amazing, truly.

  118. @anonymous

    Armenians were the original settlers in California

    Yep, and not only the Spanish, but the Russians and the Amerinds were johnny-come-lately interlopers!

  119. @obwandiyag

    This is absolutely right, co-ed schooling has been far more destructive than desegregation. Your remark on football is also correct. However in all fairness, the author is highlighting the issue of diversity having primacy over student quality, he isn’t decrying desgregation per se. The fact that he’s racist doesn’t actually detract from the point that giving an imbecile priority in acacademic admittance simply because it makes for a more diverse campus, is harmful. Giving an imbecile priority because he is athletic is harmful too, but at least athletics has a more meaningful relationship to college than diversity does.

  120. @Dacian Julien Obama

    How do you know so much about *216* and his family?

    • Replies: @Dacian Julien Soros
  121. Anon[290] • Disclaimer says:
    @anonymous

    You are being too literal. As you implicitly confirm his metaphorical description was correct.

  122. Tyrion 2 says:
    @anonymous

    It cannot find its way in. It is in and of itself not something that has agency.

    Wealthy black Americans have more “ratchet” family members than wealthy white Americans. Thus they tend to have more ratchet visitors.

    Rich black neighbourhoods have more crime (to follow the deprivation causes crime argument there should not be any crime) because blacks are less moral and more prone to crime generally.

    You have failed to establish that rich black neighbourhoods do actually have more crime and that it is the rich black people doing the crimes.

    Also, the bloke with the funny name made the basic and straightforwardly true point that: colour may correlate with “moral” and “crime prone” but it does so weakly. There are obviously many much better ways to predict those qualities in a person.

    The problem is akin to you needing to win a bet by picking the tallest of two people, one Chinese and one Dutch. Naturally, if that is all you know, you should pick the Dutch one. But only a feckless incompetent would pick based off only that fact and forgo actually measuring them.

    Just as only a screeching lunatic would be offended by someone recognising the first fact.

    Why people seem unable to avoid acting as the incompetent or the lunatic, I cannot fathom. Making quick judgements, then testing them and revising them to make them better is the basis of pretty much every thinking interaction we have. Or maybe it isn’t and other people are braindead? Or perhaps they simply can’t take this basic skill and apply it to something abstract? Someone please let me know…

    • Replies: @Svigor
    , @anonymous
  123. Whitewolf says:
    @un-diversified

    The whole point of diversity is a world without Whites. The religion isn’t practised or enforced in any non-White country.

  124. Whitewolf says:
    @m___

    Whites selling out their own people are traitors. Having disdain for lower class Whites is acceptable. Selling them out is not.

    • Replies: @m___
  125. @Rich

    why is the USA in decline..because the financial process rigged to suit the financiers has focused all the wealth into their few hands. by FINANCIAL CRIME they have stolen all American/Global wealth. enslaved the populations by debt and therefore there is global financial crisis.

    the 1%, swamp etc..whatever they are and can be called are not giving back the wealth.. and are always in the process of negating rising opposition to their crime. they create wars in particular to hide their crime..and by war they solve most of their problems and keep society in check while advancing the types of social organization the imprisons the people

    this financial crime has been a cyclic process so regular that we can go back into history and postulate that every European, western and world wars were rooted in the peak and flow of financial crime globally, and human group has been central to all of it over centuries of time..the Khazar Jew

    and here we are currently at the same peak again…the massive concentration of wealth by financial theft and manipulation, the people enslaved to debt and wars and looming wars everywhere, again potential even more massive sources of financialization, human debt enslavement, population reduction by massive war, physical destruction of global infrastructure…war and rebuild by ‘Marshal Plan” producing universal debt and concentrating further the global power of the financiers.

    that is the solution to the problems of financiers to the massive financial ‘crisis’ they cause cyclically, constantly.social management wasteful death and destruction. the qualitative difference this time around appears to the weapons of final human destruction. there are some countries that will not submit to the financiers and the financiers cannot stop…their ultimate safety and survival lies in reducing the entire human species to servitude and total comprehensive social control..that systematically must be some form of Brave New World

    that is the human future. and we can observe the human species pis now being reduced to such depths of depravity that the people will not be able to resist their own enslavement. homosexuality a dead end like capitalism, and a panoply of associated gender benders are now legal. Incest is to follow but incest is not such a dead end as capitalism so I guess we have not had that imposed on us yet

    and where does the education fit in..Ivy league education..the white western education system. the white west education system is not education. it is whole system of indoctrination that one must be prepared to enter and be functional in by previous years of indoctrination as a child growing up. such preparation can be be achieved in the white western middle classes from birth to age of entry to the higher levels of the white education system..which in totality is a the most complete, comprehensive expression of the western global vested interest that ghetto Black people..the greatest number of Black people in the west have no part in, no investment in, are locked out of the social ambient that produces white people capable of functioning in and therefore in it have little chance of success in it.

    but white people, the white authorities know this..and so do the Black students who get in. and why is the claim of Weissberg that that education goes out of its way to help the Black students be successful accurate? why would hey do that when there is the element in it of it getting out of hand and potential take over by successful Blacks? after all it is a system, systematic, a pyramid in which the power is located at the top. capture the top and the system is yours.

    the lead article is a fraud and a manipulation. the introduction of ‘diversity’ students by the number into the Ivy league of western education is akin to the immigration boondoggle that brings in difference to dilute a threat, while making the reality more controllable by the minority running the global show..the Khazar Jews. they are restructuring the education system to facilitate their control. that is why those students are there even though their presence in counter productive to every interest they could have socially..and to that of the regular majority white in there who are not Khazar..and to white society as a whole

    Black students who have not been prepared for the Ivy leagues from birth by the middle class and upper middle class life cannot enter the Ivy leagues and be successful…no matter what effort is expended to raise their functional levels. there might be some minority to who do reasonably well but the majority wont. it is not their vested interest..and critically the Ivy League education can prepare them only to exploit and rip off their own people at home in the west and globally. so on entering the Ivy leagues the ghetto students surely are fully aware of the multi-faceted fraud they have entered that can do them no good at all. the successful individual is likely to have a somewhat successful material life but at the expense of his people

    the ghetto students are not stupid and educationally dysfunctional. in fact the opposite is likely true. in their own system made by them to facilitate their own development they would be fine. they will not be so fine in a system that cleaned them out to create and build itself, and exists on their backs still. there is no way that system can have them in there for their own best interest..but to exploit them further.

    my argument is that this ‘new expansion of the education to include diversity students’ is a manipulation that does disservice to the diversity students first, then to middle and upper middle class white students at school, and in the general social result that is inimical to all save Khazars .. serves the interests only of those who conceived of it and implemented it..the Khazar Jews who control just about all of america.

    and here we have one of them Weissberg, starting up and leading this fraudulent debate, that takes the fraud as a natural and good given. but it is the education system that is the problem, the gigantic fraud. we miss that and we end up discussing our racism and contempt for Black people, Black young people and their supposed intellectual incapacity..but not Weissberg’s fraud itself

    the Black people of the US must forget about the IVY leagues..do’t go at all but start immediately constructing an alternative, representative of their own vested social interests..and that only, guided by that reality..their own social interests. there-in Black people would function superbly, in their own interest and the social structures they create to effect it..and in doing so, contribute to the reclamation of the USA, help to make it an independent country once more, focused on the interest of Americans, collectively and in diversity at the same time..to cease being a massive use value for the Khazar Jews, bent on their own conquest of the planet

  126. @swamped

    If you want to see what the future holds, look no further than South Africa. The history of the White man is being erased. No matter how the changes are justified, the drive to make the country reflect its ‘rich diverse heritage’ is no more than a purge of anything White.

    Once all the names are changed, the statues are removed and all the Whites have fled, the history books will be revised accordingly.

    South African Name Changes

    Road Names in Durban

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  127. the intent is always divide and rule, to have as many groups as possible in any and all locations who can be had at each others throats for every imaginable reason that be played all the time. in the division the most powerful coordinated group can prevail.

    massive immigration any one?

    what this debate does is worsen the hostile interaction between ethnic groups while leaving an education system intact that constantly reproduces american inequity and social dysfunction..a dysfunction that even the diversity students who are successful would join and help to reproduce itself, maintaining the american horror story

    the solution is not to maintain the Ivy Leagues system of education but to smash it entirely, diffuse social control to the states and cities and towns, allowing them to address their problems locally in their own ways, in ways they can control creatively in their own images and likeness,expressing heir own vested interests in what they create, developing their own resources and skills and existential success

    all the people will find opportunity to function sweetly, optimally in their local something over which they have total control

    the elitist american education system..as well as this debate here serves no useful purpose unless we can see the elitist boondoggle that it is, and to whom it is actually in service of..certainly not in the service of the american people, but in the service of an american elite that is really only nominally american, but looks to the interest of a foreign country that has america in thrall

  128. @Anon

    I didn’t mean to imply that Californian power companies had AA issues, just that the systems were not well run and were failing their consumers.

    TBH I know very little about the underlying issues affecting CA power systems. I remember reading about the outages caused by deregulation, which I think caused some perverse incentives for the operators. I’m on shaky ground here. Anyway thanks for clarifying.

  129. Weissberg calls it a diversity miracle. really?

    what is the positive concrete result of all this…how does it benefit Black people for example educationally socially?

    it does not benefit Black people at all..period.

    so who benefits..where is the miracle?

    Maybe in the dilution of white gentile solidarity and possibilities. who does that strengthen?

    more minorities baying at each other, at each others throats, lots of minorities in the house but all in hostile group relationships socially.

    who does that benefit?

    where is the miracle?

    what Weissberg describes is vapor, insubstantial, hardly decisive, transformative in american social relations

  130. @The King is a Fink

    And had whites not manufactured whiteness as some manner of innate superior mode and ensured access and development of its entire population they would not have the kind of civil response as blacks take their place through the process of political power.

    In my view the collapse was inevitable and it could have been avoided had the state of SA not violated their own code of ethics uniquely against the black population.

    I find it strange that people on the sight applaud the French Revolution, yet stumble to comprehend the results of an apartheid system run in the guise of a democracy.

    ———————

    Fortunately, we in the US at least had constant discussion about the meaning and applicatioin of democracy, fair play, political integrity, etc.

    • Replies: @anarchyst
    , @AnonFromTN
  131. @Wizard of Oz

    Do you think Michelle Obama posts on this kind of boards? It has to be some low life, who knows how to type, but whose time doesn’t value much.

  132. Truth says:
    @Rich

    Newsflash:

    Life can be unfair.

    Remedy?

    Sue God.

    • Replies: @Rich
  133. @Rich

    “a varsity athlete” Was he spreading his applications in time and space? It’s not enough to apply to all the Ivies, with such abilities you should spread yourself on decades. Perhaps Harvard in the forties or Harvard in the fifties would have accepted him.

    I am from Eastern Europe, as you might have guessed. The only way for my classmates to get into Ivies was to be at the international Olympiads. The only way to get into an US top 40 research university was to be at the national Olympiad. I had to be in the top 120 of the country, in Maths / Physics / Chemistry. And it was hard, because everybody was trying it, and the country always sent a Top 5 team. Also, it had to be hard science. All those little girls, getting gold at the Gymnastics Olympics, could not go to any American university, and had to make do with Romanian universities.

    Did you friend go to the Olympics? Or should we all be impressed that he made the top 120 in his village? Was he chosen without competition, because his dad knew the coach? Did he play something niche, like lacrosse, in order to avoid competition and even contact with actual sport players? Yeah, it’s getting harder to bypass donations with such tricks. Everybody knows how to get their child into one of those “varsities”.

    For the next reincarnation, he should plan being less poor. Much smarter would be nice, but I didn’t hear anything about him in a science competition, so that’s where he starts too low.

    • Replies: @Rich
  134. anarchyst says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    Apartheid was put in place to keep the normally warring tribes from decimating each other. As a result, South Africa became one of the most economically stable countries on the African continent. Despite the so-called “evils” of apartheid, there was a large influx of black immigrants into South Africa. Food was plentiful. Apartheid was able to “keep the peace” and was successful until communism’s “inventors”–(despite having arms agreements with South Africa) helped dismantle apartheid. The rest is history . . . South Africa is a “basket case”; its white farmers (producers) are being murdered. Farms that have been “appropriated” by blacks are being looted–not usable for farming anymore because anything of value is being sold for scrap. It is obvious that SA blacks have no propensity for farming…
    If one good thing comes of this, it will be the deserved “retribution” placed on the South African communists for being a major part in destroying this once-prosperous country. I would welcome the immigration of SA whites to the USA as they would be an asset to our country, but current American immigration laws do not allow for the immigration of whites to the USA, despite white genocide taking place.

    • Replies: @Truth
  135. @EliteCommInc.

    Fortunately, we in the US at least had constant discussion about the meaning and applicatioin of democracy, fair play, political integrity, etc.

    I’d take real democracy, fair play, and political integrity, all of which we lack in the US, to “constant discussion” of these subjects every day of the week, and twice on Sundays.

  136. Rich says:
    @Truth

    Oh great, you’ve finally admitted that life’s not fair. I’ve only ever met Negroes who wanted the government to give them free stuff because their ancestors were once enslaved. Excellent that one of you guys has realized that life isn’t fair. Maybe we are actually making progress. Does this mean you guys will stop demanding that free cheese, affirmative action and no-work jobs at the MTA?

    • Replies: @Truth
  137. Rich says:
    @Dacian Julien Soros

    Apparently, being from Eastern Europe, you are unfamiliar with how admission to an Ivy League school works in the US. The point about the young man being a varsity athlete, as well as a top student, was that he wasn’t just a bookworm hiding out in his room studying. He also did volunteer work at his church and was an all around great kid. And yes, he won several science competitions, not sure if you’ve heard of Brookhaven Lab in NY where he won one of his awards and a scholarship, was a National Merit Scholar as well. And, no, his father didn’t know the coach.

    This young man was, perhaps, the smartest kid I’ve ever met, and he’ll do fine in life, just seems to me that it’s wrong that he was discriminated against because of the color of his skin.

    Oh, and his “small village” was NY. Probably bigger than your whole country.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    , @Truth
  138. @Rich

    was that he wasn’t just a bookworm hiding out in his room studying.

    Long ago a phycisist was unable to find a job at a university, jobs for physicists outside universities were scarce, so he accepted a job as physicist in a patent office.
    It was a bookworm job, reading and understanding the application for a patent, then going through records in dusty archives to see if such a patent existed already.
    If he was hiding in his office room I do not know, in any case he was not an athlete, mountain walks were his excercise, and he did not do volunteer work.
    And yes, possibly he did not get the university job because his parents had had an uncommon religion.
    This bookworm in 1904 and 1905 published his theories of relativity.

    • Replies: @Rich
  139. Rich says:
    @jilles dykstra

    That bookworm actually stole the theory of relativity from Olinto De Pretto, an Italian scientist who had published the theory two years earlier. De Pretto was also a swimming champion.

  140. m___ says:
    @Whitewolf

    To a certain extend, there will be distinctions between Whites, of course, what deems as being impossible is to provide within the existing methodologies and historical models for an eight billion plus global population. There will not be ongoing development, but convergence to the bottom as can be seen. The choice is going to be qualitative, what will prevail, as a solid, durable base to build upon. Nations, religion, class, or race. The elites of today bet on class, a global ruling class and consequently a global ghetto for the deplorable, the all-color proletarians, the whatever religeous zealots, the consumer zumby (a living dead consumer). They succeeded pretty well.

    The alternative to a ghetto existence, within the confines of pollution, toxicity, veganism and crappy housing for the commoner might be to bet on race, call the elites out on loyalty to their own on the basis of race. Very Jewish, and illustrative to the negative as done by Blacks.

    The commoner cannot tolerate his own elites selling out, and this without regard for nation borders. That is what the Whites of the middle class and the straight thinking outliers at the bottom are up against.

  141. @obwandiyag

    i bet you believe wakanda is real to.

    • Replies: @Truth
  142. @niteranger

    that article was scary reading.

  143. @Dacian Julien Soros

    Either you like living with cognitive dissonance or you are a newbie troll, idk which and i honestly dgaf to be honest. Your comment made me laugh so i felt like wasting a sec to tell you.

  144. @EliteCommInc.

    Were you drunk or high when you wrote that? Whatever, your comment is totally nonsensical.

  145. Truth says:
    @Rich

    …It’s the Wisconsin farmers who are demanding free cheese.

    The white elites who want the smartest blacks to work for them, instead of building competing businesses, who are demanding affirmative-action.

    And the white lawmakers who want to brag about bringing jobs to their district who are demanding no-work MTA jobs (although the number of black lawmakers has grown).

    You’re playing checkers, Bro. They’re playing “Go.”

    • Replies: @Rich
  146. Truth says:
    @Rich

    This young man was, perhaps, the smartest kid I’ve ever met, and he’ll do fine in life, just seems to me that it’s wrong that he was discriminated against because of the color of his skin.

    LOL, hey good thing he wasn’t Chinese, Old Sport. He’s be relegated to taking shop classes in junior college.

  147. Truth says:
    @Per/Norway

    …Anything that generates a half-billion in profit is quite real.

  148. Truth says:
    @anarchyst

    Apartheid was put in place to keep the normally warring tribes from decimating each other.

    Yes, in particular the Angles and the Boers, traditionally the two tribes with the longest, most violent war. With apartheid in place, they had no great motivation to use the other tribes as clubs against each other.

  149. Rich says:
    @Truth

    Come on Troof, you grew up in Queens, how many of your neighbors weren’t on welfare? How many weren’t lining up for that free cheese? You say you’re from NY, are you pretending a bunch of your “homies” aren’t not working for the MTA? They had to lower every score on every civil service test just so your bruthas could get hired. Not sure if you still live in NY, but the reason the subway is suddenly falling apart is because the old time White mechanics are starting to retire, and the affirmative action mechanics never bothered to learn how to tighten a screw.

    By the way, they make the cheese in Wisconsin, they don’t have to ask for it from the government. Except, of course, for your cousins in Milwaukee.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
    , @Truth
  150. @anon44

    World On Jews–On Satanism (Extreme Subjectivism)

    Indeed: and how do Jews operate?–the Talmud, featuring war against humanity–which is followed, as by Unz, the “editor” (censor) here, whether “religious” or not. Note Talmud features “midrash” (interpretation) method throughout–reality is what rabbis say it is, they working through “midrash” method (also, “Oral Law Tradition”).

    For Talmud features Satanism, extreme subjectivism, idea reality is creation of mentality/consciousness, the subject being God, the creator–Satanism, by definition.

    The wrinkle is Jews follow a COLLECTIVE subjectivism, most sublime “group-think,” Jews co-operating, most dedicated, most organized–why they naturally dominate and hence LEAD all the rest of the more isolated, “individualist” satanists among the goyim, even though goyim far out-number Jews.

    Thus satanists generally, led by Jews, rule by means of fear, intimidation–a large criminal enterprise at the top of which is the central-bank (US Fed. Reserve), literally legalized counterfeiting–see Mises.org for expo; use the site search-engine for specific terms.

    So, anyway, the Jews induce “cognitive dissonance” upon the poor goyim, all of it under-pinned by their extreme subjectivism (satanism). There is an antidote and a solution–it’s called TRUTH, which Jews hate. Unfortunately, there may still be a few too many excess gentiles still living.

    So, evidently, the gentiles will have to be “de-populated” a bit before a survivable remnant decides to getting serious about things–and to realizing Hitler was absolutely right about many things–why Jews hate him so–he couldn’t have been all bad, eh?

    • Replies: @Truth
  151. @Anon

    Just like a said. Some idiot defending boneheadball again. You just don’t like anybody criticizing you imbecile sport. The rest is ignorance and lies. You know nothing about college. Guess why. Because you are a liar.

  152. @Rich

    RICH

    Truth made most of his money overseas as a contractor of sorts. There is no AA in Kuwait, where he was employed for years.

    Though he returned to the US and now lives in New Mexico of all places, his money was made overseas. Some guys come back, others don’t.

    And if white craftsmanship and capability is so wonderful, why is so much of rural white America poor?

    Why do cities with significant non-white populations of blacks, Jews and Asians have a higher GDP than all-white populations in the US interior?

    There is a great deal more money in Miami or California than in most of Wisconsin.

  153. Svigor says:

    As for all those talented white (and Asian) males who will never be admitted or hired in a university, don’t fret—

    Learn to code, go into tech, make a pile of money, and tell anyone hitting you up for donations to academia to get it from his diverse friends.

  154. Svigor says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    Troof “made his money” burying his nose up Uncle Sam’s ass. I.e., from whitey’s tax money. AA galore.

    Whites make those cities profitable, blacks are a drain on them. You stupid shitheel.

    • Replies: @Truth
  155. Svigor says:
    @Gene

    Blocked. Unz.com reads far better without the leftist boilerplate, which we can get at NYT, WaPo, Slate, Huffpo, CNN, etc.

  156. Svigor says:
    @No name

    For brave or honest men. It’s still pretty good for cud-chewing yes-men.

  157. Svigor says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    New or not, they’re insignificant, and always have been, you semiliterate Philistine.

  158. Svigor says:
    @Sowhat

    Aaand another basic bitch leftist/non-white troll blocked.

  159. Svigor says:
    @David

    Great story, bro. Trouble is when you expand your knowledge beyond your own personal experience…

  160. Svigor says:
    @Tyrion 2

    You have failed to establish that rich black neighbourhoods do actually have more crime and that it is the rich black people doing the crimes.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/03/23/poor-white-kids-are-less-likely-to-go-to-prison-than-rich-black-kids/?utm_term=.235ce4d9ad9e

    You’re welcome.

    Also, the bloke with the funny name made the basic and straightforwardly true point that: colour may correlate with “moral” and “crime prone” but it does so weakly. There are obviously many much better ways to predict those qualities in a person.

    Not within 3 seconds of stepping into a dark alley with him, there isn’t.

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    , @Truth
  161. Nancy Wilson was worth about a million of you STEM-my imbeciles.

    • Replies: @Authenticjazzman
  162. anonymous[830] • Disclaimer says:
    @Tyrion 2

    ‘olour may correlate with “moral” and “crime prone” but it does so weakly’

    First of all colour is not race. No one thinks a dark skinned (dot) Indian is going to rob them at night in a badly lit parking lot. The fact is african americans are 13 percent of the population but commit 49 percent of the homicides. They do so mostly against one another because of White flight, exurbs etc. Even if you adjust for poverty etc blacks are still 8 times more likely to be involved in casual street violence for example. By the way this pattern is repeated in places like Canada and the United Kingdom which never had slavery and whose own black populations were self selecting immigrants for the most part (underground railroad,windrush). This pattern by the way is still going on today. Australia never had large amounts of africans but in the few short years since ‘sudanese’ blacks have arrived in Melbourne and Sydney they have created a street violence and gang problem with even ‘flash mobs’ cropping up. I needn’t tell you how difficult it is to get to Australia even as a refugee but there it is the same pattern. Blacks are less moral and everyone knows it. This is not true of all blacks but as a group average it is. As for the black neighbourhoods have more crime because of visiting relatives theory I thinks it speaks more to primitive black collectivism (ie even the ones with something on the ball still have extended family that they are indebted to- this pattern is well attested in Africa) than it does to neighbourhood dynamics. Also you fail to say why blacks have all these ‘ratchet’ relatives in the first place- its as if the average black is less likely to be a good person (by White standards) just like the statistics say they are.

    There is no reason to believe that every group will have evolved the same (White, northern European) morailty. It does not make sense. By removing the possibility of innate group differences (which have evolved over tens of thousands of years) the only conclusion is to lay the blame at the feet of White people. But you see that is the entire point is it not?

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    , @EliteCommInc.
  163. @Jeff Stryker

    And if white craftsmanship and capability is so wonderful, why is so much of rural white America poor?

    Quite simple, in my opinion, global competition.
    Without subsidies they would not be one farm left in the EU.
    Against world market prices it is impossible for a farmer in one of the EU countries to get an income we see as decent these days in the west.

    This situation exists since a very long time, the first time I saw the figures was in 1966 or so.
    The Dutchman Sicco Mansholt was the spiritual father of the EU agricultural subsidies system.
    It it is far cheaper for EU countries to stop agriculture completely, and import all food.
    However, this would turn large parts of Europe into forests, and make us completely dependent on food production elsewhere.
    Rural white America is poor, comparatively, within the USA, not in the world.

    Some Germans understand why the west is rich, as German industrialists say ‘wir exportieren Intelligenz’, ‘ we export IQ’, one might say.
    Thilo Sarrazin, ‘Deutschland schafft sich ab, Wie wir unser Land aufs Spiel setzen’, München 2010
    Just in specialised articles and tv reports one is shown how Germany has developed and produces things not available anywhere else in the world, often in middle sized family businesses, few hundred employees, employees with a lot of knowledge, loyal to the enterprise, the enterprise loyal to them.
    We in the Netherlands have similar enterprises, greenhouse systems, very high tech ships.

    One of course seldom has the opportunity of seeing how diversity is nonsense.
    A few years ago, in the Dutch town where I live, the stage was prepared for a tv show, where also thousands of spectators would be present.
    Elaborate sound and visual systems were installed, being curious, I watched the preparations, which took about a week.
    Number of technicians working there, few hundred.
    Among them one with a migration background, doing a very simple job.

  164. m___ says:
    @anarchyst

    In our opinion, denouncing does not cut it. In a practical sense, since the playing field is trip-wired, the Jew does not play along by the rules (nor does any other group, most have in-group attitudes, including the “old-boys” networks), the suggestion should be that Whites who matter should adhere to some Jew method and sense, and shelve the guilt, strive for equality, the ideas in short of Christianity and Enlightenment (theoretically superior most probably), until they get back to dominance.

    An yet, here we are, “subscriptions” to a Jew cluster to express findings that contradict the very basis of reasonable opposition. All reproaches made to the Jew, the international Jew, stealth with regard to his individual identity, his outcry as a collective, on command, and proven age-old tactics, his in-group handling of internal problems, should be rather adopted.

    The secondary problems, White trash, a middle class, whoring as never, as long as White elites can come to some coherent strategy, the latter problems will not surpass the givens and strive within the Jewish group.

  165. Rich says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    White craftsmen and inventors built the entire modern world, from automobiles, to trains, to airplanes, to skyscrapers, to modern farming and fishing. I thought you were an intelligent guy Jeff, are you denying the accomplishments of the White race?

    As to your poor rural Whites, first off, there really aren’t that many of them. Secondly, American industry abandoned these people for cheaper labor overseas. Remember, the US auto industry was tops in the world until Affirmative Action came into place in the 70s. Detroit itself was a decent city until Truth’s people showed up.

    If Truth worked for an American employer in Kuwait, he was gifted with affirmative action. I’ve never met a black American who wasn’t promoted above his ability. Anywhere, in any business. That and nepotism are what is bringing the US down.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
    , @republic
    , @Truth
  166. @Rich

    RICH

    I don’t deny their accomplishments from the Greco-Roman Empires through to Victorian England.

    • Replies: @Rich
  167. Rich says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    Are you denying all the accomplishments of the 20th century? Do I have to list them for you? Jet propulsion, atomic power, space travel, etc.? Are you denying that before affirmative action began its slow destruction of American industry, the US wasn’t the top manufacturing nation in the world? Followed very closely by the previous leaders, the Europeans? Come on, Jeff, stop the anti-White nonsense. You don’t have to like White people to stand in awe of our accomplishments. Just the heating system in your average home, the plumbing system, the electrical system, are modern miracles, brought to you by Whitey. Even if you have a thing for Oriental gals.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  168. republic says:
    @anarchyst

    Anthony Bryan, American Renaissance, September 23, 2014

  169. republic says:
    @ThreeCranes

    In several states the highest paid public officer is the football coach

  170. republic says:
    @TG

    Speaking of the Soviet Unions lots of low grade writers with Communism party connections got hundreds of thousands of their mediocre books published.

  171. @Rich

    I am white as snow.

    However the Asian and Jew dominated cities on the West and East Coast seem to have left the whiter parts of the US interior in shambolic conditions.

    Scotland is nicer than India but Central West Virginia is far poorer and more ghetto than Silicone Valley.

    • Replies: @Rich
    , @Svigor
  172. republic says:
    @Anon

    I have read that aa is now in air traffic control in the US.

    Hope those guys are in back office jobs!

  173. republic says:
    @Rich

    Now there are lots of black US diplomats and even CIA station chiefs. One black CIA station chief in Algeria was raping local women using date rape drugs! He did it in his official residence in Algiers!

    Got a 5 year sentence. Name is Andrew Warren

    Another black CIA officer actually made a discrimination complaint because of a lack of a promotion!

    Several naval vessels were in collisions in the pacific, not reported officially but some were unqualified navigation officers from minority backgrounds.

  174. Truth says:
    @Rich

    You are not getting the whole point, Big Rich. The point is that if it didn’t benefit the people who elect the lawmakers in this country, white people (population % + desire to vote), and ESPECIALLY rich white people. It wouldn’t be policy.

    There is no policy that was made to benefit black people, there is an alternative motive to everything you see and hear. Government cheese; who eats it? Everyone, but per-capita, more black people. Who gets the GOVERNMENT SUBSIDIES to grow it? White farmers.

    Prisons, who lives in them? Everyone, but black people per capita. Who works in them? Everyone but more white people in most cases. Who PROFITS from them (building, and maintenance contracts, etc). White people. Stockholders in private prisons? White people. It isn’t that complicated when you look at it.

    MTA, who drives the busses? Black people, who benefits from black people who would not be hired by white companies if not working for the government? White people with businesses as they have consumers.

    You really have to learn to look at things in totality.

    When I came up in 80s white people did not want to work for the government. It was seen as sort of a black mark, like you were lazy and couldn’t do anything else. Moreso out west where I have been living for the last 30 years, but in the east a little too. Government jobs used to pay less than civilian jobs and the pensions were not as good. Not anymore. Too bad for whitey because we have a foothold in them now, in the non-pension era. That’s life.

  175. Truth says:
    @apollonian

    Judaism is, at its heart, a Satanist cult. This is fairly obvious when you look into it. That does not mean that every jew (small “J” intentional, “ish” means “like”) is a Satanist.

    • Replies: @apollonian
  176. Truth says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    I was only in the Gulf for a few years. Was offered 6 figures to go back, but my ego got the best of me. Bad business decision, good lifestyle decision. Interviewed as was a finalist for jobs in Japan, Italy and Madagascar, did not earn any of them so I am back in my small city. I also worked in South Korea 20 years ago (and not as an English teacher).

    I enjoyed working overseas and think I did good work, but military consulting is definitely just rich, connected people stealing tax dollars, and of course they have to pass some of those dollars down the line. It really is as simple as that.

  177. Truth says:
    @Svigor

    Guess what Sport.

    “Svigor” still rhymes with “wigger!”

    heh…heh…heh.

    Just kidding Bro. Hope all is good, and that Charleston is gentrifying.

  178. Truth says:
    @Rich

    I’ve never met a black American who wasn’t promoted above his ability. Anywhere, in any business.

    LMFAO!

    Damn, I can only wish that were true. We’d all be in mcmansions.

    • Replies: @Rich
  179. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Svigor

    Not within 3 seconds of stepping into a dark alley with him, there isn’t.

    I notice you say “him”, implicitly recognising that race is far from everything.

    You’re welcome.

    Are their parents leading Surgeons, computer programmers and businessmen or rappers, football players and affirmative action hirees?

    • Replies: @Svigor
  180. Tyrion 2 says:
    @anonymous

    I was using colour as a synonym for race. But still individuals are individuals.

  181. Rich says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    The White Jews were part of the great American technological advances of the 20th century, but a small part. Watson, Shockley, Greatbatch, Kilby, Stoner, Houbolt, Dryden, Carrier, Gilruth, Farnsworth, Holmes, I mean the list is endless. You were probably poorly educated as a child and were unaware of the great American scientists and inventors that were prowling around, making life better for everyone. It’s beyond belief that someone could be ignorant of the massive scientific advances brought to the world by Whitey, up to and including this day. Either you’re just messing with me, or you’ve become one of those NOI guys who deny reality.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  182. Truth says:
    @Svigor

    Not within 3 seconds of stepping into a dark alley with him, there isn’t.

    You really shouldn’t be buying crack, Svigs. Get some acid or some shrooms from a white boi.

  183. @Avery

    Brilliant observations !!!

    Add to all of this insane malaise the bizarre spectacle of MO in Detroit a few years back stating that all black kids should make sure that they get to college.

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” qualified since 1973, airborne trained US army vet, and pro jazz musician.

  184. @bike-anarkist

    GA is a ranting leftist nut-case.

    AJM

  185. @Rich

    It’s beyond belief that someone could be ignorant of the massive scientific advances brought to the world by Whitey, up to and including this day.

    I’m afraid my belief is just the opposite.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  186. @Truth

    It’s FATAL Mistake To Patronize Jews, Suckers–They’re DEADLY Serious, Don’t Doubt

    Comrade, thou art totally wrong–and thou needeth to think better–DON’T BE PATRONIZING towards these monsters. Jews are Talmudists, by definition, and those genetically related, and they’re all NECESSARILY loyal–to the Talmudic program, war against humanity, for benefit of Jews and their rule over the goyim–no less than Unz is, here, who ruthlessly, INTENSIVELY censors my postings, all for the benefit of his Jews–Unz is loyal to Jews, does things for Jews.

    There may be “little” Jews, as thou indicate, but it’s no less than privates, corporals, captains, and generals within the large army. Additionally, Jews have their allies, “useful idiots,” and dupes, among the stupid goyim too, like the masons, etc.–all in the large satanic (subjectivistic) complex.

    Unz’s page/site here is mere psy-ops, typical Jew, imagining he can deflect the hated goyim. Just read again his “Open ltr to Alt-right,” fairly dripping as it obviously is w. the typical, obligatory Jew contempt, lies, and condescension, which no one w. half a brain could fail to see. But enough of the gentiles here KNOW what’s up w. Unz, no doubt.

    • Replies: @Truth
  187. @obwandiyag

    Myself a white Jazz performer of fifty years past, I obtained my first Nancy Wilson LP in 1960, of course she was a great singer, as was the (white) Anita O’Day.

    Today is the birthday of Joe Pass, the marvelous (white) deceased Jazz guitarist who performed with Ella Fitzgerald, the wonderful (black) singer for years.

    Look you really don’t know what you are talking about and you are trying to pit black artists against white artists and this is totally unnecessary and rediculous to boot.

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” qualified since 1973, airborne trained US Army vet, and pro jazz musician.

  188. Rich says:
    @Truth

    A lot of you guys do have mcmansions and every black manager I’ve met, every black mechanic, bus driver, train conductor, etc. is always at least one position, higher than they should be. Come on, Obama shouldn’t have been president, he might have been a decent school teacher somewhere, Condeleeza could have been a music teacher (but not a Russian teacher), Dinkins a decent building super and Warren Moon an okay cornerback.

    • Replies: @Truth
  189. Svigor says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    LOL, Jews aren’t white, dummy.

    Jews and yellows follow the money, not the other way around. Stupid.

  190. Svigor says:
    @Tyrion 2

    I notice you say “him”, implicitly recognising that race is far from everything.

    Apropos of nothing.

  191. Truth says:
    @Rich

    Come on, Obama shouldn’t have been president, he might have been a decent school teacher somewhere, Condeleeza could have been a music teacher (but not a Russian teacher), Dinkins a decent building super and Warren Moon an okay cornerback.

    And what about Rich, where would he be now if Duh Man Wudn’t holdn’ him down?

    Nobel Prize? CEO of GM?

    • Replies: @Rich
  192. Rich says:
    @Truth

    “Duh Man” didn’t hold me down, or give me a hand up. Everything I’ve achieved, or failed to achieve, is on me. It’s called taking personal responsibility for your life, something very few of your people do.

    • Replies: @Truth
  193. @anonymous

    More of this nonsense. No that is not accurate. The proportionality contend goes to certain people who live in certain areas — where crime has a history — whether said occupants are white green o b blue and when that is not the case, said criminal activity can be tracked to certain conditions. Freed blacks have occupied most of those environments.

    Color is the issue as it is the moniker to delineating race as if blacks are a different race of human being — they are not.

    Sure blacks are more likely to kill other blacks as whites are more likely to kill other whites. Because murder by and large is a crime among intimates — people in association with other.

    The suggestion that blacks in Australia, in this Sudanese created street crime is rebutted by two historical truths:

    a. Australia was a penal colony for the violent criminals and an assorted band of misfits and miscreants shipped out of Europe, most from Great Britain, as I recall. It is more likely that wayward Sudanese are following the lead of white Australians having street crime and any number of assorted criminal acts a staple of the country.

    b. the advance that they created street crime or any other manner of criminal activity is peculiar in light of history.

    Based on 5% (being generous here) of the black population associated with crime – your conclusion is that blacks are less moral. So your fears, are based on 5% of a population that you in all likelihood or most whites – will never come in contact with. That sounds a tad irrational, but you are entitled to be a vigilant as you choose. And a polity as laws governed by that irrationality goes a long way to understanding why so m any policies were directed against 95% of the population.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  194. Truth says:
    @Rich

    Yeah, but just imagine if Knee-growz didn’t get ALL of the good jobs Bro. Imagine where you would be today. That’s all I was asking, where would you be if the world was fair to white men, instead of so incredibly biased and prejudiced against them?

    • Replies: @Rich
  195. Truth says:
    @apollonian

    There is truth to what you say but I will share with you a little story. A Deacon once told me something that sat with me.

    We were discussing satanism, and he he said, “you know ‘Truth’, when people think of satanism, they think of guys in black robes with pitchforks doing human sacrifices and stuff. And while that is true it is not what satanism is; satanism is anything that disconnects you with your personal relationship with God. ”

    So the bottom line is that the reason that the Qaballah Cabal has been able to take over the country in a short amount of time is that other people (white people particularly because at one time, they had all of the power) allowed themselves to be conned away from God by their distractions and pleasures: In other words, the fault is yours. The Khazars are flawed humans just as you and I. It was your choice to turn your eyes from God, yours, and your daddy’s and granddaddy’s, eventually a whole lot of individual choices add up to the choice of the whole.

    So why deflect blame, Anton LaVey?

    • Disagree: apollonian
    • Replies: @Truth
  196. @jilles dykstra

    I suspect Asians and Jews have a more uniform IQ distribution.

    Few are geniuses (Though Einstein was) but they have a uniform bright-normal IQ median.

    White IQ is more skewed with many more geniuses and more low-IQ on the other end of the bell curve.

  197. Rich says:
    @Truth

    You have to stop. I grew up in Queens and have been working in NYC for the last 30 odd years, I know most of you guys don’t have any job, or have a low level job. I’m talking about the guys that get promoted over their ability, like the smart black kid, smart for an American black, who would be successful at a State school, who ends up in an Ivy, where he’s out of his league. I’m talking about the guy that would make a decent salesman who ends up a manager because the company wants a dark face. You know what I mean.

    Prejudiced would imply “pre” judging, I’ve been around you guys my whole life and I’m basing everything I write on my actual experience. I remember when you guys went around robbing at the public pool, breaking into houses, bullying smaller kids. I’ve read the crime reports and seen you in action. If you were halfway honest, and I’ve worked with a few black guys over the years who were, you’d admit that there’s big problems with your race. Big problems.

    You can play the suburban Whites and the scared rich kids, not those of us who’ve been around you guys.

    • Replies: @Truth
  198. @EliteCommInc.

    Australian whites were deported for stealing bread or forging a check. The real violent offenders back then were hung in the goals.

  199. Truth says:
    @Rich

    ’m talking about the guys that get promoted over their ability, like the smart black kid, smart for an American black, who would be successful at a State school, who ends up in an Ivy, where he’s out of his league. I’m talking about the guy that would make a decent salesman who ends up a manager because the company wants a dark face.

    Oh, so you’re saying 2 or 3% of the black population gets a little bit of a break? OK, now I understand you.

    If you were halfway honest, and I’ve worked with a few black guys over the years who were, you’d admit that there’s big problems with your race. Big problems.

    I am halfway honest and there are big problems with my race. Big problems.

    But a hundred years ago you guys got together every 20 years in Europe, and mutually decided upon a reason to murder a few million of your own.

    Things change.

    • Replies: @Kratoklastes
  200. Truth says:
    @Truth

    What is there to disagree with? The Khazars make up 1% of the world population and they almost literally own the other 99%. You’re saying they did that without our permission?

    • Agree: apollonian
  201. @Jeff Stryker

    I would dispute this if it actually had any weight.

    I take your petty thieves — and raise with street criminals. A rose be called by any other name. Crime did not start with Sudanese refugees. They did not create street crime. And I would doubt that Sudanese street criminals are representative of most refugees. Possible, but unlikely.

    • Replies: @Rich
  202. Belgian VRT published an article on the use of a very expensive, at the time, method of producing illustrated books.
    The link to the scientific article was given:
    http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/5/1/eaau7126
    The thought crossed my mind ‘is this the kind of knowledge we will lose if diversity at universities becomes more important than scientific knowledge ?’.
    Let me admit immediately that my racism is such that I assume that those who collaborated in the investigation were selected on the basis of merit.

  203. @Jeff Stryker

    British petty criminals were deported, to Australia, Van Diemen’s Island was a terrible hard labor place.
    The name caused such horror later, when British sadistic methods became known, that it was changed to Tasmania.
    A Dutchman, Tasman, discovered the island, the ship sailed from Cape Good Hope to present Indonesia, using the southern route.
    The British, petty criminals with British civil servants, succeeded in extermination of all aboriginals on the island in about seventy years.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  204. @jilles dykstra

    I guess these Dutch never knew their Boer descendants would be scrambling to get to Australia from Cape Town 400 years later.

    Good thing the Dutch discovered Australia as a safety net.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  205. @Jeff Stryker

    Not that it matters, but if I remember correctly Tasman did discover what is now Tasmania, but not Australia.
    He made his passage between the island and the mainland, but never saw the mainland.
    Another Dutch ship was wrecked on the N Coast of the mainland.
    Not a tribute to the Dutch, again if I remember well, the survivors raped and massacred each other.
    Robert Hughes, ‘De fatale kust, Het epos van Australië’, 1988, Amsterdam (The fatal shore, The epic of Australia’s founding, 1986, New York)

    • Replies: @Kratoklastes
  206. @TG

    More and more graduate programs in the sciences are no longer requiring the standardized GRE exam for entry. Nominally to ‘enhance diversity’ and ‘allow students to be evaluated for things like resilience and creativity,’ IMHO there is one very simple reason: to lower the standards so that enrollment quotas can be met

    I wouldn’t call them ‘quotas’ – apart from that, rem accu tetigisti.

    It has been that way for a very long time, too.

    University administrators do not give a solitary fuck about the current intersectional infatuations of kids in their late teens… university administrators are all about the Benjamins, baby… dollah dollah dollah, bitch!

    So if they can get more bums on seats (and get more 100-IQ kiddies to sign student loan agreements), they achieve their objective: a bigger bucket of money.

    If I was forced to try to pinpoint the era where that transition (of universities, from educational institutions to loan-sharking businesses) occurred in my jurisdiction (Australia), I would put the pin at about 1992.

    In 2005 I did some private-sector tutoring (mostly for grad students – MFin, MEc, MBA etc) and frankly I was fucking horrified at their lack of numeracy.

    It was no mystery how these clods got into their supposed ‘Masters’-level courses: all that was required, was payment of the fee ($15k/semester).

    A small number of reasonably-talented students received fee waivers (but still needed tutoring); not a single person in the class of 100 had a full merit scholarship, even though they are granted automatically to anyone who graduates with a ‘First’ (our equivalent of summa cum laude).

    Since my 3rd year undergraduate, my motto regarding graduate study has been if you don’t have a full merit scholarship, you’re not meant to be in graduate study. (This is not true in the US, where genuine discipline-specific training in most disciplines does not even start until grad school).

  207. @jilles dykstra

    I think @Jeff Stryker is probably thinking of Anthony van Diemen, whose earlier explorers certainly did hit the (top of the) mainland, a while before Tasman (if memory serves: I was forced to do one term of Australian history in high school, and I refused to pay attention for any of it).

    A quick Google tells me that AvD sent Tasman on his expedition in 1642.

    Weirdly, there are Aborigines in the deep Northern Territory of central Australia, who have some very Dutch characteristics: local legend has it that they are descendants of early 16th century Dutch shipwreck victims who interbred with local aborigines – although how they would have wound up so far inland is a mystery.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  208. @Truth

    a hundred years ago you guys got together every 20 years in Europe, and mutually decided upon a reason to murder a few million of your own.

    And later, they mutually decided on a reason to limit the killing to a few million yellow and brown folks.

    Things certainly do change.

    That said: killing a fuckton of your own (near-)kin is relative.

    My dusky-skinned, tattoo’d, slave-owning cannibal forebears (who were Māori) killed the absolute fuck out of each other; the best estimate is that the population of Ao Tea Roa was reduced by almost half between 1804 and 1840, as a result of inter-tribal warfare. All before Whitey arrived.

    These were the so-called “Musket Wars”, which are so-called because at the start one tribe (the Ngapuhi) got hold of some muskets and used them to kill the fuck out of the non-musket-havin‘ Māori. Not very sporting, but the dude who led the whole thing is a cult hero for all Māori (his name was Hongi Hika) because of his later efforts against Whitey.

    An arms race ensued, and pretty much all tribes got to enjoy the fun and slaughter – luckily there were enough Māori left at the end to prevent Whitey from invading, and a Treaty of Equals was struck (which Whitey then proceeded to break – as usual).

    Anyhow – on a scale from 1 to “Holy Fuck What Are You Doing“, the Musket Wars are roughly a 9: in terms of the proportion of the population that was wiped out, it beat the Black Death’s effects on Europe.

    Europe’s land wars – while impressive – barely made a demographic dent on Europe.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  209. Rich says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    Once again, you are wrong.There were 19 crimes that could, and it’s a big “could”, send a person to Australia. Among them were petty larceny, bigamy, stealing fish from a pond or river, and clandestine marriage. All you have to do to learn things in this day and age is do an internet search, don’t even have to lift a heavy encyclopedia. You might also have learned that only 20% of Australians are descended from these convicts. You probably don’t care, but before its independence, about 10% of American settlers were also sent here because of a conviction.

  210. @obwandiyag

    He’s talking generalities. Of course there are both stupid and smart individuals in all races. But the test scores say he’s speaking the truth. What he doesn’t discuss is that in many major school districts, particularly in large cities and their suburbs, blacks have taken over school administration at the high school level, and high schools are worse for it. Students are ill prepared for college because high school curricula have been dummied down to try to accommodate the worst students. Instead of ensuring that students learn, high schools today ensure only that teachers teach to the test, whatever test that particular state uses for accreditation.
    In New York State, prospective teachers used to have to take a literacy test – the same test they would, if hired, administer to students. It’s laughable to think that anyone applying for a teaching position might not know how to read and comprehend, but such is the state of education. What NY found upon examination is that minority teaching candidates were failing the literacy test at much higher rates than whites. https://observer.com/2017/04/ny-regents-literacy-test-teachers-flunk/
    So what did they do? Instead of saying, “Let’s hire the best teachers, no matter what race they are,” they did away with the literacy test for teachers so that they could continue to focus on diversity in hiring.
    Did this help anyone, other than the unqualified teachers they hired?
    And that is the point of the above. Not whether blacks or whites are smarter or more stupid than the other, but the fact that diversity as an end goal, for anything, is just plain wrong.
    Of course, what diversity really means is “anyone but a white man.” The guy could be Einstein but he’d never get hired. Not if he’s white. And yet somehow that isn’t seen as bigoted.

  211. @Kratoklastes

    KRATO

    That is not weird at all. Some New England Micmac and Canadian Inuit have Norse DNA markers. And Queensland Aboriginals have New Guinea DNA markers from ancient Papua sailors who traded across the straits.

    Ever been to a Naval port town? You’ll observe a high number of brothels and ahem, ladies of the night. What is the very first thing men want to do when they get off a boat after a year at sea? Go to church?

    Indian traders were apparently in Northern Australia first and made their way there from Indonesia. There is also evidence that Chinese may have been vaguely aware of Australia but the aboriginals had nothing to trade.

  212. @Kratoklastes

    KRATO

    Maori had discovered Australia and were trading with Aboriginals eons before the Dutch did. So did the Papua New Guineans and there is strong evidence to suggest that Indian traders from Indonesia also reached Australia first.

    And Polynesians reached America and were absorbed into Native American populations long before the whites.

    When it comes to killing a shitload of locals, this usually comes down to whether the invading force has the numbers or inclination. Maori could have eaten every Aboriginal in Australia but they did not think that the place was very desirable.

    Polynesians would have done the same thing in South America, but they did not have the numbers. The difference between an invasion and a visit is how many bros you have to back you up.

    If it is one boat, you mind your manners, trade some things with the locals for a screw and then leave or settle down and learn the language.

  213. @Rich

    RICH

    Americans have long fled tumult to Australia.

    You got the draft dodgers like Mel Gibson (Who ironically made his name in the US playing a tough Vietnam Veteran in LETHAL WEAPON).

    Then thousand of American air traffic controllers fired by Ronald Reagan when he broke the strike who could no longer obtain federal employment.

    Perth got the “Little Appalachia” when US engineers and milliners went there to work for Argyle fleeing coal mining collapse.

    Not so savory, you got a number of Italian-American mobsters who set up in Melbourne when the Italians got there.

    You also got the bikers on the run from US RICO charges especially BANDIDOS.

  214. @Rich

    I am not sure your point, that a reference in the internet that 20% means that Australia was not reserved for criminal elements or that the crimes you noted are not in fact crimes.

    Had you actually looked ate the material — you have noticed the reference to violent offenders, they simply don’t not the specific violence involved. However, if one peruses the actual archives, It’s quite clear that violent criminals were among those dispatched to Australia, the America’s and New Zealand (?)

    Your dance is that of the political persuasion to the tune of political correctness in very few want to note the character of both criminals and the “harshness” of the extradition policy toward them.

    Your contention doesn’t even make sense. Great Britain in a bid to remove “malcontents” held on to violent criminals but shipped out those grand mothers for stealing a loaf of bread. One might actually want to read the encylopedia for what it says as opposed to its mere couching to avoid offense.

    Not only am I not wrong. I am embarrassed for you make the case you re attempting make as even without an encylopedia it makes not sense. Are there cases of injustice regarding the system — no doubt. Does it have a dark turn – no doubt. Did GB only ship out shop lifting nannies – no.

    The case oft made on this regarding our citizens is to less 5% or less. In that instance — 20% rates of more concern.

    Good grief

    Visiting blacks did not invent Australia’s crime issues.

  215. yurivku says:

    How difficult is life for WASP!
    Reading this article and this http://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-racial-discrimination-at-harvard/ and this http://www.unz.com/proberts/identity-politics-white-genocide/

    I wonder how much time left for them.
    But all this is punisment for ancestors’ sins of slavery and later stupidity of democracy and consequent warmongering, indispensibility, multiculturalism, diversity, LGBTQsity and so on.
    Enjoy it. Well there is an option to do something, but it’s not for WASP, they’ll better cry here.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  216. @yurivku

    While it is unfortunate that whites have wedded their complaints to the consequential issues of soial discrimination of some consequence.

    Whites are not being punished for anything regarding slavery. The issues at play are about practices long in existence to varying degrees since the end of slavery throughout the country.

    And while I think there is plenty of room for some pushback — the tensions exist due to the unwillingness to acknowledge consequence and the constant press to blame those consequences on IQ, low morality . . . of blacks. The evidence does support a link to low IQ or low morality to anything resembling societal malfunction that is unique to blacks — despite the rhetoric.

    The environments that breed criminal conduct is not respective of skin color.

    The issues of women and same sex practitioners has little or no real relevance to the history of black citizens unless you live in a world of constant discussion where n o boundaries or frames are required to make arguments —

    Hence the Vietnam era generation — and they are on all sides of the every issue. They claim to be realists, but they advance arguments of no borders or the variation of societal exchange of foreigners for some other group, they simply don’t like by hyperventilating on some small segmanet and laying that cloak to the whole — so much for intellectual excellence.

    Or they are about claiming that everyone making who has hurt feelings about anything at all has been subjected to discrimination warranting redress or they hurt is such that it’s cause requires wholesale reformation of an entire segment of the population — say something stripping as the dismantling of “manhood”.

    And in the US most of the damage done to the country’s sanity has been done by whites:

    everything from school prayer to same sex marriage, to careless financial policy — even immigration all white leadership and power — and nothing to do with either discrimination or blacks.

    Sadly, even my side, a very small side indeed, has a real hurdle with truth telling.

    • Replies: @anarchyst
    , @Ben Sampson
  217. anarchyst says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    Se, let’s see…
    Those of us whites who have been negatively affected by the so-called “civil-rights” movement and “affirmative-action” policies don’t have “an axe to grind”?
    I beg to differ.
    During the first “civil-rights” push in the late 1950s and 1960s, it was us whites who had to be wary of blacks, as they NEVER acted as they had been “oppressed”. In every case, blacks were the aggressors.
    Fast forward to the “affirmative action” push–I was personally affected, being denied suitable employment many times as I was the “wrong color”. Sympathetic hiring managers and HR personnel quite often confidentially admitted that they were ordered to be “selective” in their hiring practices, and that I was the “wrong color”.
    Despite these “setbacks”, I persevered and made myself a success, living a comfortable life.
    Although, I did not dwell on the “unfairness of it all” (which is counterproductive), I remained aware of the “elephant in the room” and did my best to overcome the challenges.
    Today’s blacks are STILL complaining about slavery, which has not existed for over 150 years.
    There is an old saying which should apply, even today: “When in Rome, do as the Romans do”.
    If I had my way, every foreign ethnic group would be informed that, in order to live in the USA, one must conform to white societal norms. This includes blacks who have been here for centuries, and still cannot (or will not) conform to orderly white society norms. Looking back through history, black failure to abide by white norms was the reason for the enactment of government-enforced segregation laws.

  218. @EliteCommInc.

    oh boy. I tried very hard to understand this comment but could not. it kept bouncing off my head. it just be my low IQ as a Black person. I really must learn to read

  219. @Ben Sampson

    why in heavens name has PCR made his articles free of commentary?

    that is most unfair. PCR makes statements that require discussion, critique..yet in great frustration one can say nothing on his Posts

    I made a decision after reading PCR’s latest article on white destruction of Identity politics is it. there is so much there and a lot that require comment but cant. so I will not read PCR anymore. I know PCR is a man of dignity and stature etc but that does not put him above the need to discuss what he says

    this low IQ thing relative to Blacks needs much discussion and critique. I would like to reverse the IQ tests..write them on Black experience and make white people take such tests. lets see how well they do.

    experience is all..subjectivity in there as well. why must I be judged on IQ on test written by others. there is way too much room for corruption therein

    how can IQ really be tested anyway, since it is relative to experience and disciplined by subjectivity?

    it seems to me that the coordinates of human survival on planet earth would have to be determined universally..i.e broadly, worked out to environmental specificity and test worked out there. maybe an algorithm could be worked out that would set such tests working out a relevant one for each reality.

    I mean I used to do shit like that. I saw the racism at college and when an opportunity presented itself I always tried to test the white scholars unconsciously by having them deal with issues from my perspective from a lower material level from my country..which is no the country where the white scholar is from. and brilliant as they were they never ever answered correctly, or respond in any way right for the situation. and brilliant they were indeed..in the usage of the country they are from and what is done there..or here.

    the white scholar would not survive if you parachuted him into my reality, at his developed age with all his high IQ. he did not have but a tiny chance. and that depended on his desire to survive there, if he in fact even recognized the challenge he faced

    this IQ business seems far from a simple thing to me. but by who carries out the testing I do always expect Black people to do worst in world by racial comparative comparison. that there is a vested interest of long standing in the world..one of collective racism of the rest of the world against Black people.

    all others in the world hate Black people..whites, Indians from India, Indians from the Americas, Chinese, Japanese..indeed all Asians, and inclusive of mixed Black and white people who always identify with their other half..not the Black half. all such benefit by keeping Black people down. so anything like the results of IQ testing of all ethnic groups is bound to take the shape of that inherent structure or prejudice that places Black people at the bottom of the global social ladder

    all the other ethnic groups have a vested in maintaining that global formation of racism at the expense of Black people

    • Replies: @Ben Sampson
  220. @Ben Sampson

    anyhow why in heavens name have I started so low with this IQ thing..utter nonsense, propaganda today..prolly some game being set up to justify the genocide of Black people in the world.

    the Black world is the foundation of humanity, the rock upon which we all stand. there would be no europe if there was no Africa before. white people can speak and write, do the sciences and make things because Black people set it up

    white people were and are savages, whose veneer of civility was/is a product of Black social development and civilization and its spread into the world. and it is not as if Black people stopped with the decline of their major civilizations, but have continued to this day being the rock of human civilization

    ordinary white people, the ignorant cadre of the white imperial elites, are being prepared to commit horrific crimes against humanity in the world, far greater than those they have already committed if that can be imagined

    all this IQ talk is nonsense and it will likely come back to bite its progenitors and propagators in the arse

    the relevant part of this video below begins at 47:02

    these are old videos. the issue is far more advanced currently.. but these videos contain some solid information that sets up the reality we are part of very well. Black people have always been around…EVERYWHERE in the world..an integral part of the world, reflective of our basic position in the existence of humanity

    all the people here speak as if they do not know the real history of europe and the world, victims of all the terrific horrific lie HISTORY HAS BECOME ..and it is clear they do not.

    these are posted to help them clarify in their minds what actually happened in history..if they can take it seriously enough to go verify the content therein

  221. @Ben Sampson

    No issues.

    Skin color is a benign biological trait that has no impact on cultural understanding or practice contrasted to language, existential beliefs, social expectation of behavioral norms, etc.

    Being white does make one a citizen of the US anymore than being black disqualifies one from citizenship.

  222. @anarchyst

    It all depends by what is meant by negatively impacted. If you mean having to fairly compete or are in some manner impacted by redress, you’ll have to be more specific.

    I think you need a review of US history regarding relations between whites and black citizens. The history is overwhelming that the black citizen was the target of discrimination, overt and covert in nearly every area of their lives. Even a look at the history of riots makes clear — whites are the primary aggressors. From the extremes of murder, to assault to the destruction of property and various adverse discriminatory practices. Sadly, even today, blacks according to FBI data sets are the victims of hostile acts from whites overwhelmingly. It’s a frustrating reality.

    I don’t think there is any way for whites to know how the AA policy has adversely affected them. There are two hurdles:

    1. women, white women are the primary benefactors of AA policies and practices.
    2. the actual number of african americans who might benefit from affirmative is unknown, but even if it were an across the board application – 100% it would not even reach a threshold of the 12% represented by the black population.

    It’s not slavery — it’s the long term consequences to the immediate and long term issues indicated by policies and practices.

    I assume you mean by white social norms — the norms of civil society in ethos and practice as to our constitution. Well, it is generally accepted that everyone do so, including whites. Which in my view has nothing to do with color itself.

    I would add you cannot practice segregating people form the norms and then make an argument that they don’t follow the norm from which you have denied — the logical order just doesn’t follow.

    But what is astounding in my view is that despite national practices to bar their exclusion for the society, the proportion of African Americans who operate withing the norms of US society is generously high — despite the animosity they face.

  223. “Fast forward to the “affirmative action” push–I was personally affected, being denied suitable employment many times as I was the “wrong color”. Sympathetic hiring managers and HR personnel quite often confidentially admitted that they were ordered to be “selective” in their hiring practices, and that I was the “wrong color”.
    Despite these “setbacks”, I persevered and made myself a success, living a comfortable life.”

    Selective as opposed to the selective practice of considering only whites whether they were qualified or not. After all that was the system. Skin color was the first test — and by the same blacks failed — character, and ability untested . . .

    And then with a straight face use that denial as evidence that blacks are outside the social norm. That is what is often referred to as victimizing the victim.

    • Replies: @anarchyst
  224. anarchyst says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    I respect your opinions, but, in my humble opinion, you have it all wrong.
    I came of age during the so-called “civil-rights” era and had to deal with blacks personally on a daily basis. Almost all of them had a “chip on their shoulder” and were extreme “egoists” who had no limits. Add to that, the civil-rights “struggles” that they claim to have made were almost all patently false. They were coming along just fine, those who put effort in integrating with and behaving in white society had no problem from whites. In fact, whites “bent over backwards” to avoid any perception of “racism” (another “loaded” word).
    One had to “walk on eggshells” around them, any utterance from a white person could be misinterpreted and taken as “disrespect”-the same problem many blacks have today.
    It appears that you have had very little interaction with the many feral blacks that populate most urban areas.
    The blacks you interacted with in college are somewhat at a higher level and less likely to overtly show their “bad side” to you.
    If you are white, BLACKS (COVERTLY) HATE YOU-PERIOD!
    All one has to do is look at the treatment James Watson is receiving at the hands of “the powers that be”, despite being correct in his assessment of the intelligence quotient of blacks.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  225. anarchyst says:

    In response to your statement-“Sadly, even today, blacks according to FBI data sets are the victims of hostile acts from whites overwhelmingly. It’s a frustrating reality.”
    You’ve got to be kidding.
    If you believe what you have stated, you must be living in a monastery or otherwise isolated and out of society.
    Blacks comprise approximately 12% of the population and commit over 50% of the crimes, mostly against whites.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  226. apollonian says: • Website

    The Real History, Based On Actual Reality

    “I think you need a review of US history regarding relations between whites and black citizens.”

    US history regarding white citizens is they migrated fm Europe as settlers, the N. American colonies being European in culture. The blacks were basically slaves, esp. in the southern parts of N. America, blacks hated and held in contempt by the whites for obvious, usual, natural reasons, humans being sinners, the whites not wanting to compete w. free black labor, etc.

    Note diff. races HAVE ALWAYS BEEN ENEMIES–and always will be–for life on earth sucks, and life is war, as Homer, Plato, St. Augustine, Machiavelli, Herbert Spencer, Charles Darwin and all the best minds and philosophers of Western Civ. have understood. Strife and war btwn diff. races is NOTHING new. Whites and blacks don’t like one another, never have, and never will–same goes for all races–life sucks, doesn’t it?

    So now we have “elite…,” once again, working to patronize and condescend to the blacks as soooooooooooooooooooooo many of his “liberal” sort have always done, “elite…” pretending he’s morally virtuous in doing so w. this putrid, typical sort of patronization which has been going on now for at least a hundred yrs, eh?

    Thus the historic situation is blacks SHOULD have been sent back to Africa where they belong–even Lincoln certainly knew he had to get rid of them. The southern states of 1860 wanted to run their slave economies independent of the northern industrialists, but northerners weren’t having it, the north subsequently invading and genociding the southern people, both black and white, mass-murdering probably a million of both races by later 1860s.

    Additionally, we southerners slaughtered several hundred thousand yank invaders, so after the war, the “radical” northern politicians took the vote and political power away fm whites and imposed upon whites these former black slaves–purely out of revenge and malice for the southerners having defended themselves against invading northern psychopaths and murderers.

    Further, as yrs went by, blacks migrated NORTH and imposed their dictatorship, such as it is, upon the poor stupid whites up there too, hoh o ho ho ho ho–a little poetic justice, eh? So it’s same old, same old–war and strife btwn the races, as always, and as always will be.

    What has to happen now is whites exercising NULLIFICATION and perhaps some more secession to starting up our own countries and states once again–this sort of action is necessary wave of the future. People like “elite…” will typically and predictably object, but this time we the people need to treat these creatures like the TRAITORS and enemies they really are–with summary justice–there’s the real solution to things. See TenthAmendmentCenter.com

    • Agree: anarchyst
  227. @anarchyst

    “But what is astounding in my view is that despite national practices to facilitate their exclusion from the society, the proportion of African Americans who operate within the norms of US society is generously high — despite the animosity they face.”

  228. @apollonian

    Your comments have no relevance to the issue.

    The contention was put forward, that blacks have been the ones who discriminated against whites. My response to that contention.

    It has nothing to do with whether humans beings across the planet have been in contention with other to the point of violence. I agree they have. But acknowledging that doesn’t address the contention — that the majority of discrimination has been practiced buy blacks against white interest.

    Nor does acknowledging that blacks and whites have mutual animosity, for clearly history indicates this has salience for some. But that animosity has been practiced with effectiveness against black citizens. by far the whites have the lion’s share in the practice of discrimination. I am going to defend anyone’s right to hate whoever they choose. I cannot defend the right of a citizen to deny US rights to other citizens, based on skin color or other benign traits.

    No instrument of the federal government enacted any legal process to violate the

    “Article I, section 2, clause 3, of the United States Constitution originally provided that members of the house of representatives would be apportioned among the states on a formula that added to “free Persons” (including indentured servants but excluding untaxed Indians) “three fifths of all other Persons.” The 1840 publication of james madison’s notes of debates in the constitutional convention of 1787 revealed that the euphemism “all other Persons” referred to slaves.”

    https://context.montpelier.org/tags/35-clause

    and by and large most states observed,

    “No Person held to Service or Labour in one State, under the Laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in Consequence of any Law or Regulation therein, be discharged from such Service or Labour, but shall be delivered up on Claim of the Party to whom such Service or Labour may be due.”

    https://constitutionallawreporter.com/fugitive-slave-clause/

    The Civil war’s cause was primarily slavery, however, the war was fought because South Carolina made war on a federal institution, southern states followed to in order to depart the union they had joined via no due process and the Federal government enforced its mandate to maintain the union.

    None of which has anything to do with whether the blacks engaged in discrimination against whites more than the reverse.

    That is the record. The country chose to accept blacks as citizens and that meant, they were entitled too things available to citizens. I have no view on whether blacks should, or could have been sent back — not at issue here.

    Clearly, your knowledge of blacks socialization in the North, West and Southwest is deficient. There is little or no evidence to support the claim that blacks dictated much of anything as they migrated throughout the US.

    It is clear that you have no clue about the nature of my relationships with blacks or you would bite your tongue.

    The issue of whether blacks have been the primary practitioners of discrimination against whites is on the record.

    I think my position on “nullification” is adequately explicated several times in the thread of southern heritage.

    The evidence is very clearly listed in the Constitution.

  229. @anarchyst

    You might want to look at the data regarding hate crimes.

    • Replies: @anarchyst
  230. @anarchyst

    I am not going to make any issues regarding anyone having chips . . . that is inconsequential to the discussion as is the issue of having an ego. Those are character or personal traits which are subjective and ion most cases hardly a barrier to being a citizen of value. Visit any college campus, — plenty of whites have chips on their shoulders. Listen to the political, financial and social leadership . . chips and egos of various sizes and shapes among whites. Read any number of comments and articles and its chips and egos all day long 24 hours a day. Not much bearing the issue.

    I don’t think the record will support your contention that blacks made up issues of discrimination whole cloth across the country. Fortunately the practices of discrimination are well recorded and documented even by the practitioners. As for assimilation two responses:

    1. if entire communities make an argument about progress, it’s hard to justify a position — “that they were coming along just fine” — apparently blacks disagree. If across the country blacks were barred from employment, voting, living, justice based on their skin color — it’s hard to imagine a case that they were coming along fine. It should be troubling enough that they had to “come along” period.

    2. one cannot be blamed for not assimilating if they have in fact been prevented from doing so. In the US that would include about 400 years of colonial practice. That four hundred years in which an entire population was socialized to seem themselves out the system you claim they were assimilation into — there’s a flaw in the reasoning there. It is very clear to this day — millions of whites are not interested in assimilation of blacks. And in my view black s are very well assimilated. By way of example they fully engage in the identity color politics the country planned, practiced and reinforced from its inception.

    If whites are walking on egg shells perhaps they should. That seems more matter of choice. I don’t think there is much evidence that blacks by default hate whites. That may be a fair assumption, but there is little to support it. I hesitate to share my personal experience here — however, I have interacted with blacks citizens in multiple arenas including the inner city. And I have interacted in diverse environments — I do not see this hatred by defacto you press. It is more likely that given the history, that whites conclude that based on the same they should be hated — but I don’t see much or any this in my experience.

    It may be more accurate to say that blacks are very tolerant of whites in general and with some reason — distrust whites. distrust is not the same as hate. And even if they did, they have as much that right as whites to hate them — which of course brings us back to square one.

    Blacks have not been more discriminatory than whites, against whites. They are more likely to be tougher on each other in that regard.

  231. @apollonian

    Real Constitution

    Cases between states

    SECTION 2. Clause 1. The Judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority;—to all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls;—to all Cases of admiralty and maritime Jurisdiction; to Controversies to which the United States shall be a Party;—to Controversies between two or more States; between a State and Citizens of another State; between Citizens of different States,—between Citizens of the same State claiming Land under Grants of different States, and between a State, or the Citizens thereof, and foreign States, Citizens or Subjects.

    ANNOTATIONS

    [MORE]

    The extension of federal judicial power to controversies between states and the vesting of original jurisdiction in the Supreme Court of suits to which a state is a party had its origin in experience. Prior to independence, disputes between colonies claiming charter rights to territory were settled by the Privy Council. Under the Articles of Confederation, Congress was made “the last resort on appeal” to resolve “all disputes and differences . . . between two or more States concerning boundary, jurisdiction, or any other cause whatever,” and to constitute what in effect were ad hoc arbitral courts for determining such disputes and rendering a final judgment therein. When the Philadelphia Convention met in 1787, serious disputes over boundaries, lands, and river rights involved ten states.1042 It is hardly surprising, therefore, that during its first 60 years the only state disputes coming to the Supreme Court were boundary disputes1043 or that such disputes constitute the largest single number of suits between states. Since 1900, however, as the result of the increasing mobility of population and wealth and the effects of technology and industrialization, other types of cases have occurred with increasing frequency.

    Boundary Disputes: The Law Applied.—Of the earlier examples of suits between states, that between New Jersey and New York1044 is significant for the application of the rule laid down earlier in Chisholm v. Georgia that the Supreme Court may proceed ex parte if a state refuses to appear when duly summoned. The long drawn out litigation between Rhode Island and Massachusetts is of even greater significance for its rulings, after the case had been pending for seven years, that though the Constitution does not extend the judicial power to all controversies between states, yet it does not exclude any,1045 that a boundary dispute is a justiciable and not a political question,1046 and that a prescribed rule of decision is unnecessary in such cases. On the last point, Justice Baldwin stated: “The submission by the sovereigns, or states, to a court of law or equity, of a controversy between them, without prescribing any rule of decision, gives power to decide according to the appropriate law of the case (11 Ves. 294); which depends on the subject-matter, the source and nature of the claims of the parties, and the law which governs them. From the time of such submission, the question ceases to be a political one, to be decided by the sic volo, sic jubeo, of political power; it comes to the court, to be decided by its judgment, legal discretion and solemn consideration of the rules of law appropriate to its nature as a judicial question, depending on the exercise of judicial power; as it is bound to act by known and settled principles of national or municipal jurisprudence, as the case requires.”1047

    https://law.onecle.com/constitution/article-3/27-suits-between-states.html

    https://law.justia.com/constitution/us/article-3/29-suits-between-two-or-more-states.html

    And there is the Supremacy Clause

  232. anarchyst says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    It’s apparent that you get your data from the $PLC–hardly a good source for crime data and “hate crime” statistics…

  233. Ohhh good grief.

    I made mention of this very data set more than a month ago. It has nothing to do with an agenda. I had no idea that the FBI even kept the data. I don’ even approve of hate crime laws, but what they do indicate is motive and on that the FBI stats indicates that whites continue to be the most active in acts of aggression against blacks, not the other way around.

    Note: I do make as sincere effort to be impersonal in my responses.

  234. I do need to make a correction —

    the return of escaped slaves was a point of contention between some Northern and Southern states.

    But further support for A sovereign union with sovereign states umbrella’d is the following:

    https://www.history.com/topics/black-history/fugitive-slave-acts

    When federal jurisdiction took over the matter or returning escaped slaves.

    Note: I do make as sincere effort to be impersonal in my responses – the data matters

  235. Moses says:
    @anarchyst

    We’re all Jews now. Time to act like it. Do as the Jews do. In-group preference.

    Like “Is it good for the Jews?”, “Is it good for the Whites?” will be the only question that matters.

    (“Whites” does not include “Fellow Whites”)

    • Replies: @Ben Sampson
  236. @Moses

    “We’re all Jews now. Time to act like it. Do as the Jews do. In-group preference.”

    isn’t it way too late for any such plan and response?

    that same Jewish in-group has elongated a world control that includes all the groups. to do as the Jews do is still to work for the Jews..not for whites and certainly not for white workers and the collective white working class

    to do as the Jews do, in-group etc is now suicidal. it leave the white group controlled..nay enslaved, hierarchical, a social pyramid with the social power at the top of the group exploited..i.e bought out and exploited by the the Jewish in-group

    for it to be different the Jewish power must be broken..and there is only one power that has a vested interest in breaking the Jewish power and ending their enslavement and that is ordinary and white working class people.

    the white elites has no such vested interest. they are bought out and ok. that is one reason why the Jewish power has risen to the top..they have subsumed the white elites. likewise the lower white aristocracy, top bureaucrats, intellectual educational elites etc

    then again as an in-group betrayed by its racial group elites the white working class ordinary folk cant break their enslavement, defeat their group control by the Khazars. they are too divided, effed-ed socially… homosexual, tranny, drugged up, incest, generally decayed and decadent. and there is a lot more of that in the pipeline apparently as all manner of mysterious diseases ht the USA and Europe.

    my guess is that as far as the deliberate spread of drugs and diseases go the Khazars have just be playing around so far. I don’t think we have even approached the worst of that yet

    my assessment also is that the only way to defeat the Khazar power if a general working class movement/ordinary people movement that includes everyone. like it or not but any chance of a free democratic future for humanity rests or lies in the vested social interest of all ordinary people in capitalism..which requires said ordinary people to overthrow capitalism, creating in the process the very democracy they need to ensure and secure their own future

    that is the only option the people have. capitalism is a dead..always was and will be. the capitalists have always know this and worked out all along the way the resolutions they needed to keep going. so they did not try to avoid the periodic crisis their systematic exploitation would always cause but embraced them and learned to carry them through making profits all the way at the expense of the people

    in the capitalist humanity has produced a truly breathtaking monster. he learned to turn the revolutionary crisis his system creates into world wars, smashing whole regions including nations killing millions, depopulating the world, wasting everything including human lives, wantonly, killing off the revolutionary potential and starting again by fractional reserve banking, not a cent in his pocket but extending loans at interest to start the cycle over again

    and the capitalist does this without even blinking. he pollutes the planet the same way, makes terminator seed same way, modifies foods that play havoc with human biology same way..smashes countries and rapes them, robs them directly for the personal gain of elites and individuals..like lil’ George Bush pulling off a heist of vast proportions on Iraq, smashing that country to facilitate his robbery of that nations gold and jewels and cash. then Hillary did the same thing to Libya, with the agreement of the first Black president

    but the white people here speak as if they are exempt but they are not as I have listed. and the elitist depraved actions on the amrican people are increasing in severity as we speak. ultimately the capitalist dead end is bound to end in a dystopian future for humanity. we would have been well on our way but for China and the re-rise of Russian nationalism.

    had Russia evolved a younger more sophisticated Yeltsin instead of Putin and his crowd..had the american transfer of its industry to China resulted in Chinese fifth column, we would have had the third world war already…a planned and limited thing by the united power..united at the elite level. we the people would all have been shell shocked, prostrate, sick and dying, in lines for food and water, rations cards where food and water might be available…chaos and cannibalism where they were not..hell itself for the people

    we the people would have been defenseless and unable to fight the creation of Brave New World. planned they would have retained the resources to advance Brave New World which at this stage is the next step for a united elite for clearly capitalism cannot go on in advanced technology owned and operated by the capitalist on capitalist principles. the people finally must be brought to heel, dealt with permanently..finally solving capitalism problems permanently in the interest of the elites.

    a bunch of individualized in-groups focused on their so-called individual racial or ethnic is a kind of silly perspective, truly suicidal, making the job of the capitalist elites easy, to capture the people. they would support such division for social division of the worst most complete, by the people but totally opposed to their collective interest.

    playing the ethnic or race game now is utterly counter-productive for the people. it is now time to transcend such group differences to make a collective effort to end capitalism. if the ordinary people to not rise and end capitalism we are toast. dead end capitalism has but one option..and by now we are all well aware of what it is. nothing but collective progressive movement will do. the French are in motion. it is time we all joined up..out in the streets everywhere and tear the dam system apart, reformulation or creating a real democracy as we go

  237. Given that capitalism has been the most successful driver of personal empowerment on the planet, in my view, attempts to dismantle it sound more than peculiar.

    • Replies: @Ben Sampson
  238. @EliteCommInc.

    is that what you think?
    you cant be serious…..
    where do you see personal empowerment currently?

    everyone is enslaved to/by debt. jobs renumeration is calibrated to enforce escalation of personal debt, simply to meet the cost of living.

    the ordinary citizenry cannot even dream of protecting whatever hard earned wealth they earn, from government confiscation. in economic downturns or crashes engineered by the capitalist themselves the government moves to confiscate personal wealth, impoverishing the people. through the government the capitalist steal directly the peoples wealth, supposedly to deal with the economic crisis they caused deliberately

    its nothing but theft by another name. and there is nothing the people can do about save revolt. what empowerment is that?

    currently in america, just to run for public office officials must sign their allegiance away to a foreign country.

    there is not a single American public and elected official.. from the president on down..who have not had to sign their public life away in this way, to interests that are not american, that functions entirely in its own interests, that are not american interests.

    far from empowered American power is now siphoned off and directed into the global interests of Israel, the foreign power in question, who are the CAPITALISTS. the power you refer to is not general at all but particular and concentrated the hands of a minority population that drives most of the world.

    there is no individual power/empowerment in the world at all… save in the potential power of the ordinary/working class collective, moving in revolt to change the capitalist monopoly relationship of social forces..from minority to popular control

    popular control, a direct democracy by the people for the people, would be empowerment indeed..when the social decision-making passes into the hands of the people to decide in participatory form, all there is to be decided in society

    you must be dreaming..

  239. systematically there has never been personal empowerment in the world..at least with the rise of the white power in the world. from ancient slavery, modern slavery, feudalism/capitalism. there have been only moments of popular success against minority control when the people were temporarily empowered by their own revolutionary efforts.

    the creative moment of the Russian worker Soviets, of 1956 in Hungary, this or that commune and moment of the breakdown and defeat of the exploitative minority power by popular action. all have failed to go all the way eliminating permanently the exploitative formations so far.

    but we have arrived at a qualitative point at which society goes one way or the other of the social options available to society..popular democracy or a dystopia. there is no more room for the cyclic capitalist war/destruction/depopulation/restart by debt-fractional reserve paradigm. advanced science and technology in particular has rendered that capitalist strategy useless, run its course of usefulness for the capitalist.

    all room for playing has vanished now. the capitalist must solve his problem with the people. the capitalist must end all revolutionary potential and they can do that only by making a dystopia. their next alternative would be to blow up the planet..an option I will not consider. that’s up to the capitalist he has the means to blow the planet if he is going to lose to popular social revolution

    my point is to defeat capitalism allowing humanity to flow into forms of social organization that takes control of the stage and use it effectively in the interest of the human species, exhausting it and clearing the decks for more. it is way past time that the interests of a minority takes precedence over the totality of interest of the entire human species.

    that is the most backwardness of all..the way life is currently organized in the interest of a few. just take a look at the world and note the consequences of that.

    there is no alternative for the human species but to end capitalism and by people power create forms of social organization and administration of life in concert with the general interest, survival and progress of the human species

  240. @Ben Sampson

    You might want to take a look at the history of the US and personal wealth and empowerment.

    Ohhhh good grief, not more fantasizing about no government.

  241. @Ben Sampson

    In the US despite it’s problems, the ability to make one’s way, should one so choose has multiple avenues. There’s no guarantee of sucess, and I grant, any number of unscrupuluos people can make that difficult.

    But no system, no system operates without a budget. And of this I am sure, as the social construct you fantasize about develops there will be:

    1. bureacracy
    2. hierarchy and
    3. taxes to pay for the above two

    Because it costs money to manage anything in the way of social functioning groups of human beings.

    • Replies: @Ben Sampson
  242. @EliteCommInc.

    the economy crashed in 1929. that was planned..so was the confiscation of the wealth Americans had saved in gold. they were given paper for their gold then the paper crashed 40% in no time

    so make you way how? ultimately nothing you work for is yours in anyway at all..maybe a house that is all paid for so you burn your mortgage. but don’t forget your property taxes.

    I am not fantasizing about anything. the process or functioning of an exploitative system produces its own opposition, relevant to the way it exploits. there is no way for the people to survive in that system..this current one. look at it! where is it going and whats there for you soon enough

    it costs money to manage any system sure..but where are you getting the money from to manage this one right now. by fractional reserve banking it is guaranteed to fleece the economy, drawing away all the liquidity facing the economy with a crash. interests payments are high and must be met. so the government with the bankers work out ‘austerity’ packages..that cut all the social programs, increase taxes on the people but cuts taxes on the rich

    this austerity is to create margins with which to pay the interest charges on the government debt. but this interest is to be paid to to the people who create the debt. there they are making the debt that must be paid..but how do they do this?

    by taking over the peoples currency and charging them interest on its use..in addition to fractional reserve banking in which they lend money they do not have into the economy.

    the whole structure is a fraud that is guaranteed to bring economic collapse which deepens the banker control of the economy even further. it is a fraud from start to finish. the debt should be repudiated, tossed and the money taken back from the bankers to be used by the government who can spend liquidity into the economy at no interest.

    but the politicians literally gave the peoples currency to the Bankers to lend back to the people to create the national debt. and with this they have had the people like financial bozos for a hundred years and counting. they have ripped off the people for trillions none of which is coming back

    you are talking about money..but you allow a system of financial rape to go about which you seem unaware. it is totally rigged against the people. there is no freedom and empowerment..only police state and total surveillance as the money dries up in a rigged system

    everything cost money right..but the Bankers have a free lunch..don’t you see. and you bawling about what my fantasy would cost

    look here….need is the key..society is supposed to function on need and developing capability to meet the needs of the society. now only the need of the financial minority is met…everything is organized to meet their need.

    all I suggest is in response to social need. I see the system and how it works and understand the capitalist needs..what they require to continue..and that is a dystopia. that does not meet the needs of the people..it enslaves the people kills the people.

    what do the people need to go on then…and there we come to forms of social organization in which type people control. we do not know what exact form it would take on any given day..that depends on what is required and the peoples organizational response. creativity is the keep in response to social need. but such is required because the capitalists have evolved and elongated an exploitative prison state in which increasingly ordinary people cannot survive. what choice do they have but to revolt. and when they revolt what forms does it take, what do they create to change the situation and meet their needs?

    it seems to me there would be plenty or resources to meet all needs once the pie is in the hands of the people..not divvied by a small group of capitalist among themselves. and once the popular need becomes the focal point of social organization expansion would be limited only by what..what is the limit of popular need…?

    once the economy is free from capitalist exploitation limitation would cease to be a factor. capitalism is the most limiting expansionary fact we face..and you are not aware of that. no wonder you are afraid and talking about my fantasy.

    you talk about there must be bureaucracy…that high lights your fear. diffuse the work man…let the communities take care of themselves..that’s the point. don’t you see..once the people can take care of themselves..they will get healthy and health ceases to be an exploitative industry.

    capitalism has corrupted the peoples health to make profits. the people must be sick to make a go of health. well if the people are healthy the focus in health is elsewhere like research into ares of human health and biology as we go to the greatest degree. the focus would be on getting healthy and staying so

    society can be run without bureaucracy period. there is no necessity for bureaucracy at all. like the health industry, all bureaucracy is make work for capitalist profit, and to create a parasitic cadre the elites can count on because the bureaus need the elitist system of exploitation to be paid..and at the same time use the bureaus to divide the people and turn them against each other

    shake yourself up man. you have been co-opted to work against your own best interest. and
    instead of looking for ways out for you according to your ordinary interest, your intellect is frozen in the on-rushing headlights of a capitalist freight train that is going to flatten you

  243. First,

    the foundation of capital theory and application of capitalism doesn’t have a thing to do with the gold standard. Capitalism could be applied whether one is operating on a gold standard, silver standard, copper , tin or fluid model of money valauation. The manner of value representation doesn’t have anything to do with capitalist application. Hence your opening premises are false in connecting them and a usual for the libertarian complaint it attempts to blend complaints/arguments of unrelated issues as if they are part and parcel to each other.

    If you want to make a contend that the value’s dollar is diminished by the loss of of the use of silver in coinage make it. But don’t pretend it has anything to do with capitalism. You want to challenge the fed as a regulatory body fine, but that has little to with capitalism in practice. As capitalism would still operate quite effectively in either case. Since paper money has been in use use for just over a thousand years, it’s a safe bet capitalism isn’t in play.

    Second,

    whether or not one pays cash in full, cash via payment via time or whether one engages in bartering also has nothing to do with capitalism. That is a method of payment and capitalism is not predicated on paying in time. That is currency exchange method to product. Whether or not one employs a “middle entity” in the course of making a purchase, storing money, and the price of what the middle man charges is not a capitalist contingent system. Money lenders have been a round for many thousands of years and out explication of capitalism’s theory and application is not dependent on money lenders or method of payment. One may challenge the money lending process as undermining fair exchange of product to valuation via added costs through paying a middle broker such as a bank. But that is a completely different argument, than how one earns their living. There is no law that demands you use a middle broker to buy and sell goods. The credit system is not a mandate. In fact there are people who engage in a ethic of cash is king and only do business in cash on hand. That’s soley dependent on whether one has the resources to do so.

    Third,

    I am going to reject your suggestion that purchase of anything should be predicated on need alone. I am going to reject it for several reasons.

    a. It smacks of the central authoritarian control systems that would have to engage in determining what a humans needs are.

    b. That inherently is a demand on personal choices and could even represent a threat to life.

    c. It is an arbitrary standard to employ —

    d. There is no indication in all of human history that people engage in exchange based on what they
    need alone —

    e. Based on your own complaint it undermines the very notion of libertarian thought as to systems and choice thereby stifling the economic and personal freedom libertarians claim they want to extol on humanity — clearly limiting the exchange of goods and services to one’s needs would be defacto decrease the value of any currency and

    f. it would employ not merely a a middle broker, but a means to enforce what constitutes any one person’s needs.

    And frankly, that ultimately challenges why gold should be the qualifying standard as gold’s worth is not by need, but predicated on what x number of people desire. Desire by way of value is a motivator to value. Gold is value because it was desired. I ring could made of tin. But the higher value is placed on gold by desire, not need. Need alone devalues the model by which you want vest the economic system and by virtue of desire according to own posit of need would most likely create a vastly overvalued mechanism. A system based on need would predicate a a very diverse currency. I need would, but my wood valuation is based not the need but rather on a the price of gold — which makes no sense because I am not building my home with gold, but would. In fact, I think there is a very good case to be made that using gold over values nearly everything that anyone actually needs.

    Fourth,

    management has nothing to do with fear. Your social communities, will operate by a community making choices, those choices about roads, street lights, — “needs” as opposed to “wants” will have to be determined and thereby enforced. Either the philosopher, the enlightened: by god or by educational status, wisdom , as to one individual, a group of individuals or all in the community will have to pay for said community services and someone or someone’s will have to foot the bill. Call it taxes, call it charity, call it pay to service — that’s called Bureaucracy. It doesn’t matter whether one is afraid or not — it’s not an emotional mechanism – it’s management. And less Bureaucracy is best, in my view — it’s Bureaucracy nonetheless.

    Fifth,

    capitalism doesn’t make anyone ill. Nor does it prevent people from taking care of themselves as to their health. No one is being forced not to exercise, eat according their physical needs or demand, be overweight, smoke drink alcohol, smoke marijuana, use: cocaine, heroin, abuse, prescription drugs . . . There are no laws against using supplements to address health issues unless said supplements prove to damaging to one’s health.

    Sixth,

    there’s nothing about capitalism that hinders making healthcare less effecient. But I am very curious about your solution to heath needs or wants that an individual’s self care is not sufficient to address. A physician trained to address said need — I am curious what his needs are to my cost. he needs to pay for his stethascope of which there are several, I assume that some standard has been set as to which of the varying models which he needs — and how much he needs to determine his fee according to his needs. I take it the research into which model of stethascope will set that price. I guess before we even get there — it’s unclear whether one even needs a medical degree, since health is clearly an individual matter — or maybe everyone needs a health degree to self sufficient to avoid needing see a physcian in the first place. None of which has any bearing on capitalism.

    _________________-

    Just a glimpse doesn’t pinch the surface of the faulty and shallow advance you present. Which at the end of day contradicts and undermines your case at best.

    • Replies: @Ben Sampson
  244. @EliteCommInc.

    and you guys keep attacking black people on the issue of IQ. the idea is that Black people suffer from generally low IQ and that it is genetic

    you prove with all of that you have written immediately above..that you are at least literate and can think a bit… but how and which way?

    maaaan!

    what do you have to defend relative to the status quo?

    who are you may be a better approach to try figure out whats going on here…. are you a rich person and gold t defend in capitalism?

    but were you rich why would you be here slumming?
    you prolly not rich then

    then are you an academically strong person..a professor at a university etc?
    still prolly not. you would have been a professor or something with a long association with same people written books etc and been involved therein..not slumming in the commentary box of the UNZ review.

    I am ok! I fit..I am just a retired old negro from a lifetime of struggle with clear grudges against what I call capitalism and the our social class system.

    at one time my grudges were focused on whites period. now I have expanded separated and worked out the interconnections so I can place class first, race second and see white people generally for what they are..walked out of African got caught in the cold for some 40 thousand years and came back out strangers, changed into their opposites now crazy, cruel human monsters opposed to god..want to capture and control god and make him do their bidding

    all that to point out that you cant possibly have any existential vested interest consistent with the point of view you evince and express..none at all. so you are a captured individual operating in the interest of interests opposed to your own interest

    capitalism as it began is not the same as it was..it evolves and changes by method and principle and we must change with it to be in understanding of it as it goes as we are it’s victims.

    I don know what o tell you man! maybe you can ask yourself some questions about the world and the way it is as we speak. are you secure..are your children and their futures if you have any. one assumes that they will live 70+ years and must work and live for that period..meaning job/businesses they may create.. and salaries and pensions. health care, good clean food, affordable housing education etc.

    what are the prospects man! how does it look for them given the state of the nation right now and its evolutionary prospects on its current failed state basis?

    and what do you propose to solve any anticipated, existing and spied out difficulties?

    I have seen your intellect..and the questions you have asked or implied. I will not get into such a debate with you. it will take too much time and lead nowhere. I trust in the development of events, the social evolution taking place around me, that we are all part of.

    I have spoken off the top of my head in all I said here ..took no time to research and fill out precisely the points I expressed. they are solid points anyway, I stand on them..and know that my bias is the way for humanity to flow in order to survive and evolve out of what we call capitalism.

    If you persist in defending capitalism that is your affair…even if it is not in your best interet to do so. you will be overtaken by the development of events which will flow into popular revolution or be subsumed into an elitist dystopia. you can take that to the bank..such as they are.

    all the best

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  245. yes..take it to A bank, such as they are.

    you are going to have to participate in the destruction of those if you intend to survive and have a decent future, in a clean world, pollution cleaned up, relevant truthful education, peace prevailing, war eliminated.

    gird yourself with truth and relevant skills. you are going to need all that and more to prevail in your ordinary social interest and not eaten up by elitist banking powers

  246. @Ben Sampson

    I am going to respond to the loosely related comments to the issue.

    What we are experiencing today is not very akin to capitalism as it ought to exist.

    You are in my view correct when you note that capitalism today is not what it once was. It has, in my view strayed so far as to no longer be referenced as capitalism. It’s more akin to a merchantil system – merchantilism. And that is not a very healthy picture.

    But let’s get something straight. Even if that were not the case, you position would still not address capitalism. I assume you are contending for something akin to social construction or libertarian thought. So my comments above remain where I came in. You disapprove of the Fed position that loan and debt financing (very simplified version) is what keeps the system liquid. That is not an uncommon complaint and I think there are some valid critiques on that issue.

    And in so acknowledging there is a remedy.

  247. For the libertarian and independent contingent —

    The answer is very simple. prove it. The beauty of living in the US is that you really can choose not to participate. In so acknowledging, make your case by demonstration as opposed to endless assertions and personal attacks.

    There are some 300 million people in the US. Locate any number of like minded citizens. Build a community independent of the banking system, the credit system and corporate and political structures that you claim totally steal the life blood literally and figuratively from US citizens, build a libertarian – independent community that operates as you claim.

    No such community as you describe would be in violation of the laws of the US and present that as your model libertarian community comprised or composition of libertarian societies that function as you describe.

    build it and if it operates as you have repeatedly advertised —

    “They will come.”

    Though I suppose the idea of advertising might run counter to your “need” verses want as advertising is designed to appeal to one’s needs and or wants — creating desire might be a hurdle to your philosophical ethical frame. It will be interesting to see a community without any admin.

    • Replies: @anarchyst
  248. let me say this: the way I operate has little to do with what I decide..or according to the analysis of fine points and principles etc. we have functioning living reality on the ground based on the most extreme exploitation we have ever had. the people are the ones with the problem of exploitation, the suffering.

    to the extent I have an opinion it comes out of that reality..me being part of the reality at the exploited end.

    it is what the people in collective response to their problem that is the way to go…WHAT THE PEOPLE DO!

    In Russia the people created Soviets..in Hungary they created a democratic response as well in response to their suffering and exploitation. that is the key man..what the people do in response, on their own, out of their minds and collective activity.

    [MORE]

    it is not what the political parties discuss and plan and try to effect. it is not what the capitalist infiltrators and shit disturbers like Lenin and Trotsky do..carrying forward the capitalist revolutionary misdirection.

    we must understand that what the people do is key, the direction and now we know that is what we must protect, develop, carry forward. the people always create the the most progressive and democratic response in response to their predicament, to solve their problems. the vest minority interest are the capitalist who are equal to the problem.. and the organized political efforts especially the political parties. these all contain the reaction, out of which the state capitalism and bureaucratic dictatorship comes.

    so those are the forces that must be neutralized…especially the political parties. and the way to do that is to run with the popular democracy, take it all the way, relative to the national needs of all the people. find ways to meet need that bureaucracy carries to eliminate the need for the bureaucratic parasites. smash the banks, eliminate fractional reserve, reduce the banks to corner store utility to carry out any simple but repetitious and essential financial services that may remain

    it is what the people create, even when we enter with plans about what is to take place in reform of the situation. there is always from underneath a swell that results in overthrow and popular creation and creativity that is immediate and effective. that is where we go

    take a look at what the Cubans have done…the have begun a massive program of transferring the economy to the people by the means of worker-co-operatives. if you work in an industry you must be an owner of it too….you and all who work in that industry. you are responsible for all in that effort..you and all who work there. you carry out the work, make all the decisions..about every aspect of the industry.

    now there will be no private owner individual or the state as in state capitalism. and as administration is diffused to the bottom of society we will see the end of bureaucracy as the people are free to function totally in the popular interest. the popular interest becomes the business of the state

    so instead of the health industry functioning as a promoter of ill-health because that is in its vested interest..the health industry is now eliminated as that sort of thing and health becomes the whole integrated thing that it is. the people are only as well as the society itself. and in such movement the health industry adjusts itself and functions accordingly..in the well being of the nation. indeed the whole nation adjusts this way so that general productive and social activities coalesce in effort to produce a well nation functioning excellently in the interest of not just survival but human development as its major purpose

    you have to have faith in real and true principle. in the collective interest resides the democracy that is consistent with human survival and proper, excellent human evolution…the full realization of the full potential of human species. such interest does not lie in minority control which in principle must be exploitative and socially depraved, consistent with the destruction of the natural environment and of humans. it is consistent with the propagation and development of the worst human behavior, the embedding and inculcation of such behavior in the human soul all the better to exploit and control humanity

    so exploitation and minority control is equal to the degradation of human society you live in, are a apart of. that is why capitalism is a dead end. that is what it produces…and left on its own it would produce its own end shortly and quickly and begone. but there is the capitalist class determined to survive forever and they have been busy for a long time finding ways to perpetuate themselves. and their perpetuation is as depraved as their system is dead end.

    the capitalists use the very revolutionary activity their exploitative systems produce, against the people.. in the people in effort to turn their exploitation around. the capitalist have succeeded repeatedly to turn natural revolutionary activity and the flash points of these to pit the people against each other. they send the working classes of each nation out to fight each other by the millions wasting their revolutionary fervor in massive war destruction and bloodshed.

    that has been the purpose of our great and celebrated revolutionary leaders Trotsky and Lenin and all the rest. wittingly and unwittingly they have helped carry out the capitalist agenda in misdirecting the revolutionary fervor of the working classes of the world, the discretion of it into self slaughter and genocide of the very class they were supposed to have been leading to a new and democratic social dispensation

    so now when we see the build-up of revolutionary worker activity at the points of manipulated global financial crisis we can be sure that the capitalist are in the revolutions fomenting them from their naturally generated bases in some cases. we can also be sure that the capitalist misdirection is focused in the organized entities..the political parties and any number of related entities in which the reaction can be hidden.

    that is another reason why we must trust in the people. and even if we find the people wrong it is our responsibility those who understand and are sincere to find ways to bring out where the wrong is and to solve it not by stopping population for minor alternatives but to strengthen the people in their hands-on popular administrative activity. the principle of popular control and the creation of effective ways to make participatory activity function effectively, by the people out in the streets taking over and creating the means of control..without bureau and president and prime minister and all them minority control parasites..must never be traduced, minimized, weakened.

    that is what we must go out to protect and develop..placing the power in the people..all the people and making the ways this can happen and become the way by eliminating every possible need for any one/any group.. in society to have power that is paid for by others in any way shape or form. if you live in society you must earn way by some effective participation in the production of the wealth that feeds you, houses and clothes you

    excuse the typos and bad grammar. early in the morning I am stealing sleep time from things I must do today for this. I must really like talking man..to be into all this. I hope there is some useful purpose to it..or it has some slight value

    Hugo Chavez took the government to the people by creating missions. that is one way to go. but there are millions of ways a society can function that eliminates all parasitism..most of all bureaucracy

    so man..no more political parties..no more state capitalism and trust in basic principles that come into being with reality and changes as society evolves. capitalism came into being and now we know that it is a dead end..how it is a dead end, why it is a dead end… and that a dead end trying to perpetuate itself creates a monster social reality.. THE VERY SOCIAL REALITY IN WHICH WE LIVE..WHICH IF WE DO NOT REVOLUTIONIZE IT WILL LEAD TO NUCLEAR WAR DISASTER… OR ENVIRONMENT DEGRADATION THAT WILL KILL OFF SPECIES INCLUDING OUR OWN..OR LEAD TO A NIGHTMARE DYSTOPIA, THAT SUCH AS HUXLEY AND ORWELL WARNED US ABOUT!

    that is the way it is..like some kind of law. the opposite is also true..that the democracy is ensconced in the popular interest whether the people are aware of it or not..that human survival itself, and all progressive human possibilities lie in the popular interest, in the fullest possible expression of the popular interest we can muster, create, develop.

    I don’t want to get into such detailed points that you list. that would only mislead us. we are way beyond that now. experience has brought us here..to such a conclusion as this. and there are others who are really advanced in such analysis. I am just farting around the edges

  249. the dominant class produced by a dead end social system trying..determined to perpetuate that system, creates a monster social reality..the one we now have.

    humanity, human society must change that reality, kill the dead end, create and institute its opposite..or die!

    that as I see it is the choice facing humanity as we speak..revolutionize society, bring the popular democracy to the fore and allow it to take us into the future, by setting a/the base for the most full and complete human development possible.

    we do not know the universe..the religions we now live by are all wrong..science has debunked them all as common sense taught us a long time ago. maybe we can go back to the stone..or the various electrical plasma as the first we know. but what gave rise to the plasma….?

    we do not know yet we must survive in conditions we must come to know to give us our best chance. so we must learn..must be able to and capable of learning. and this learning project humanity is face with is gargantuan. all the people in the world no matter 7 or 8 billion..the job outstrips us all..even were we all fit and learning truth..not the propaganda lies the controlling minority now imposes on global society.

    humanity is committing suicide currently in many ways..or in one organized certain capitalist way.. and that is by living by lies and blindness, in a reality that requires sight/knowledge, in order to achieve some sort of indefinite survival in nature

  250. Ben Sampson says:
    January 19, 2019 at 9:41 am GMT • 1,500 Words
    let me say this: the way I operate has little to do with what I decide..or according to the analysis of fine points and principles etc. we have functioning living reality on the ground based on the most extreme exploitation we have ever had. the people are the ones with the problem of exploitation, the suffering.

    to the extent I have an opinion it comes out of that reality..me being part of the reality at the exploited end.

    it is what the people in collective response to their problem that is the way to go…WHAT THE PEOPLE DO!

    [MORE]

    In Russia the people created Soviets..in Hungary they created a democratic response as well in response to their suffering and exploitation. that is the key man..what the people do in response, on their own, out of their minds and collective activity.

    it is not what the political parties discuss and plan and try to effect. it is not what the capitalist infiltrators and shit disturbers like Lenin and Trotsky do..carrying forward the capitalist revolutionary misdirection.

    we must understand that what the people do is key, the direction and now we know that is what we must protect, develop, carry forward. the people always create the the most progressive and democratic response in response to their predicament, to solve their problems. the vest minority interest are the capitalist who are equal to the problem.. and the organized political efforts especially the political parties. these all contain the reaction, out of which the state capitalism and bureaucratic dictatorship comes.

    so those are the forces that must be neutralized…especially the political parties. and the way to do that is to run with the popular democracy, take it all the way, relative to the national needs of all the people. find ways to meet need that bureaucracy carries to eliminate the need for the bureaucratic parasites. smash the banks, eliminate fractional reserve, reduce the banks to corner store utility to carry out any simple but repetitious and essential financial services that may remain

    it is what the people create, even when we enter with plans about what is to take place in reform of the situation. there is always from underneath a swell that results in overthrow and popular creation and creativity that is immediate and effective. that is where we go

    take a look at what the Cubans have done…the have begun a massive program of transferring the economy to the people by the means of worker-co-operatives. if you work in an industry you must be an owner of it too….you and all who work in that industry. you are responsible for all in that effort..you and all who work there. you carry out the work, make all the decisions..about every aspect of the industry.

    now there will be no private owner individual or the state as in state capitalism. and as administration is diffused to the bottom of society we will see the end of bureaucracy as the people are free to function totally in the popular interest. the popular interest becomes the business of the state

    so instead of the health industry functioning as a promoter of ill-health because that is in its vested interest..the health industry is now eliminated as that sort of thing and health becomes the whole integrated thing that it is. the people are only as well as the society itself. and in such movement the health industry adjusts itself and functions accordingly..in the well being of the nation. indeed the whole nation adjusts this way so that general productive and social activities coalesce in effort to produce a well nation functioning excellently in the interest of not just survival but human development as its major purpose

    you have to have faith in real and true principle. in the collective interest resides the democracy that is consistent with human survival and proper, excellent human evolution…the full realization of the full potential of human species. such interest does not lie in minority control which in principle must be exploitative and socially depraved, consistent with the destruction of the natural environment and of humans. it is consistent with the propagation and development of the worst human behavior, the embedding and inculcation of such behavior in the human soul all the better to exploit and control humanity

    so exploitation and minority control is equal to the degradation of human society you live in, are a apart of. that is why capitalism is a dead end. that is what it produces…and left on its own it would produce its own end shortly and quickly and begone. but there is the capitalist class determined to survive forever and they have been busy for a long time finding ways to perpetuate themselves. and their perpetuation is as depraved as their system is dead end.

    the capitalists use the very revolutionary activity their exploitative systems produce, against the people.. in the people in effort to turn their exploitation around. the capitalist have succeeded repeatedly to turn natural revolutionary activity and the flash points of these to pit the people against each other. they send the working classes of each nation out to fight each other by the millions wasting their revolutionary fervor in massive war destruction and bloodshed.

    that has been the purpose of our great and celebrated revolutionary leaders Trotsky and Lenin and all the rest. wittingly and unwittingly they have helped carry out the capitalist agenda in misdirecting the revolutionary fervor of the working classes of the world, the discretion of it into self slaughter and genocide of the very class they were supposed to have been leading to a new and democratic social dispensation

    so now when we see the build-up of revolutionary worker activity at the points of manipulated global financial crisis we can be sure that the capitalist are in the revolutions fomenting them from their naturally generated bases in some cases. we can also be sure that the capitalist misdirection is focused in the organized entities..the political parties and any number of related entities in which the reaction can be hidden.

    that is another reason why we must trust in the people. and even if we find the people wrong it is our responsibility those who understand and are sincere to find ways to bring out where the wrong is and to solve it not by stopping population for minor alternatives but to strengthen the people in their hands-on popular administrative activity. the principle of popular control and the creation of effective ways to make participatory activity function effectively, by the people out in the streets taking over and creating the means of control..without bureau and president and prime minister and all them minority control parasites..must never be traduced, minimized, weakened.

    that is what we must go out to protect and develop..placing the power in the people..all the people and making the ways this can happen and become the way by eliminating every possible need for any one/any group.. in society to have power that is paid for by others in any way shape or form. if you live in society you must earn way by some effective participation in the production of the wealth that feeds you, houses and clothes you

    excuse the typos and bad grammar. early in the morning I am stealing sleep time from things I must do today for this. I must really like talking man..to be into all this. I hope there is some useful purpose to it..or it has some slight value

    Hugo Chavez took the government to the people by creating missions. that is one way to go. but there are millions of ways a society can function that eliminates all parasitism..most of all bureaucracy

    so man..no more political parties..no more state capitalism and trust in basic principles that come into being with reality and changes as society evolves. capitalism came into being and now we know that it is a dead end..how it is a dead end, why it is a dead end… and that a dead end trying to perpetuate itself creates a monster social reality.. THE VERY SOCIAL REALITY IN WHICH WE LIVE..WHICH IF WE DO NOT REVOLUTIONIZE IT WILL LEAD TO NUCLEAR WAR DISASTER… OR ENVIRONMENT DEGRADATION THAT WILL KILL OFF SPECIES INCLUDING OUR OWN..OR LEAD TO A NIGHTMARE DYSTOPIA, THAT SUCH AS HUXLEY AND ORWELL WARNED US ABOUT!

    that is the way it is..like some kind of law. the opposite is also true..that the democracy is ensconced in the popular interest whether the people are aware of it or not..that human survival itself, and all progressive human possibilities lie in the popular interest, in the fullest possible expression of the popular interest we can muster, create, develop.

    I don’t want to get into such detailed points that you list. that would only mislead us. we are way beyond that now. experience has brought us here..to such a conclusion as this. and there are others who are really advanced in such analysis. I am just farting around the edges

  251. anarchyst says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    “No such community as you describe would be in violation of the laws of the US and present that as your model libertarian community comprised or composition of libertarian societies that function as you describe”.
    Your statement is demonstrably false, at least in today’s climate of one-sided “civil-rights” and political correctness.
    All one has to do is look at the “fair housing” statutes that are enforced in the US. One cannot (legally) keep anyone from purchasing property even if they do not agree to abide by “commonly accepted community standards”. This has resulted in the degradation of once-viable neighborhoods.
    Of course, there are exceptions, when it comes to jews. Jews have commandeered whole communities, especially in New York state, (Kiryas Joel) where they have decreed that real estate will only be sold or rented to jews; the public school system is “for jews only”, among other discriminatory practices that would not fly for any other racial or ethnic groups, especially whites.
    Yes, there is a double standard when it comes to jews…

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  252. @Ben Sampson

    I am unclear what system you are talking about. But I am not inclined to support anything when it’s quite clear that repair, something less drastic than destruction would accomplish more or at the very least an equivalent outcome. I think most people tend to view change in that manner. And while I am aware that systems can reach breaking points of tolerance, I am not convinced that we are there yet in the US. There are far too many valves to relieve the pressure. That may not always be the case.

    But a systemic problem need not be deconstructed, even by violence when mechanisms of repair are available. Our system has mechanisms for repair.

    No human system of human management lacks a social class structure. It simply has never existed and in one of my rare admonitions of absolutes — never will. In the US neither democracy, nor the efficacy of capitalism require deconstruction — remedy, I think so, but nothing as damaging and risky as death by the sword, metaphorically or literally. And while you talk of democracy advancing, you are inviting a much slower, burdensome ineffectiveness virtue by what democracy means upon application, increased participation, requiring increased access, require increased bureacracy to ensure increased availability to the same – that is the consequence of popular democracy.

    I am unclear by what authority you intend or what you intend to do about the current faith and practices of people. I take it that your conclusion about their wrongness (so says you and your like minded advocates) means they must be destroyed — how you or others intend to attend to that implies some “undemocratic” means of force. Hardly, advancing the views, feelings or concerns of the many.

    I am unconvinced of the efficacy of your advance here. You have provided little ion the way of evidentiary support by empirical evidence or reason to support that humanity might best be aided in being deconstructed to some stone age condition. To date, over the course of time here or anywhere, those advocates of independent social systems or libertarian ideologies have yet to make a supported case against capitalism.

  253. @anarchyst

    As long as libertarians make the matter available to as they say who so desire to be in their community —— the fair housing statutes would not in any way limit such a community.

    I am not inclined to listen to excuses. The society as proclaimed by libertarians takes no government funding, no government subsidies, skin color does not matter, the society is based on willingness to cooperate, engage in honest dealings, integrity, ability . . . mutual cooperation . . .

    The common standards argument fails miserably in light of home owner associations around the country.

    • Replies: @anarchyst
  254. anarchyst says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    You bring up a good point about “homeowner associations”. They can be, and are quite often tyrannical in their operation. I, for one would NEVER live under the imposition of a homeowner association.
    What say you about the disregard for “civil-rights”, “fair housing” statutes by those who live in all-jewish communities in the USA (Kiryas Joel, etc.)?
    Regards,

  255. @anarchyst

    I am unfamiliar with the issues regarding the communities you reference. But I suspect that this is a “faith and practice” hasidic issue. I will take some to time and read a bit.

    Mennonites, Quakers, etc.

  256. @anarchyst

    My only real issue with the referenced community is their use of government funds and violence as a means of social control.

    But in relation to the issues — there doesn’t seem to be any barrier to libertarians give their agenda a whirl.

    It will be interesting. I stand where I came in on this issue.

    • Replies: @anarchyst
  257. anarchyst says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    Thank you for the Kiryas Joel “60 Minutes” video. I remember seeing it when it was first aired.
    The sad part is, that if any other ethnic or religious group tried to do the same thing, they would be shut down by the federal and state governments.
    This exposes the double standard when it comes to jewish practices– “Do as I say, not as I do”. “Multiculturalism and diversity for thee, but not for me”.
    Jews are of the only group that can get away with ignoring laws that apply to and are enforced for everyone else.
    You have proven my point.
    Thank you,

  258. @Ben Sampson

    ” Kill the dead end, create and institute it’s opposite or die”

    Yeah here we go again : Oct 1917 revisited. You are insane, a ranting communist lunatic, you turn my stomach with your ignorant deranged blatherings.

    Of course the Russians, the Chinese, the east Europeans. they were the wrong ones, and they did not really understand Marx like you do, and you will get it right this time.

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” qualified since 1973, airborne trained US Army vet, and pro Jazz artisit.

    • Replies: @Ben Sampson
  259. @Authenticjazzman

    wow! what the hell makes you so angry?

    I am not..I can be wrong. I accept that! and I have had so much shit in my life that you cant even imagine. yet I know there is time and nutten will last. so what the hell is there to get so angry about?

    you are surely white. have you tried to count the amount of people you have killed these past few thousand years with all your nonsense. and people are still looking for solutions that includes you despite your proven insanity. yet you are angry at my outlook that does not call for more slaughter.

    is that why..because there is no aggressive plan for maximum blood in it?

    the other guy calls for Libertarian fixes. Libertarians are a group, organized with a vested interest. therein is a reaction to democracy that will be a problem as we go.

    what is the problem then?

    Capitalism is an exploitation, the most expansionary and complete we have yet known. in subsumes the entire population of the planet into its form. it exploits, enslaves exhausts all the wealth in the world and focuses it in few hands. therefore the opposition that capitalism will be relevant to the exploitation of capitalism and require response tailored to that.

    what is the libertarian response to full employment..or the christian response or any sectarian response?

    what has been the response to the working classes out in the streets at points when they had opportunity to respond? they had no use for any sectarian response..it was across the board addressing the needs of the working class period. such responses had no limitation by any sectarian consideration. sectarian considerations are for church on Sunday and when your clubs has a meeting. the interest of ordinary people transcends all of that and such interest relative to systematic capitalism can be met only by the people in revolutionary movement

    that is most simple, and consistent with all revolutionary movement we have seen so far! consistent with human experience..the proof in the pudden! pudding!

    • Replies: @Authenticjazzman
  260. there is no activity that takes place without an equal reaction. if the capitalist exploits then it will produce its own opposition.

    what has the capitalist done all along?

    ok..who are its opposition…the working class? what has the capitalist done to neutralize the working class…make it fight itself, destroy itself, destroy the world..cyclic. and at every point the capitalist addresses the situation with its own remedy..DEBT!

    Rebuild..by fractional reserve. military expansion for all sides as war hot and cold is made the permanent focus of sides that are always oppose. the capitalist makes divisions global and fights all nationalist reconciliation between nations. and they all maintain millions of young working class men in military opposed to each other..trillions on armaments created by spending at debt from which the capitalist profits on all sides

    the whole planet functions like a capitalist cesspit..and has been this way for a long time ..war, military spending, massive death, destruction and depopulation….

    what..this is some kind of natural way for humanity to love or is it orchestrated to produce and maintain capitalist control and plunder?

    which institution that is global that is not dominated by the capitalist?

    same in most nations relevant to nationalist institutions. the structure of all power is the pyramid..that lends itself to manipulation. and every effort to restructure the power to popular and diffused is fought tooth and nail by the capitalists. nations are invaded to restore the pyramid from popular efforts at diffusion. and when such nations are invaded all who are opposed to the pyramid are killed

    my argument is how to guarantee human survival as we go, if we cannot discover all we need to know to apply positively to our efforts if we are limited to one way of doing our collective business that benefits one small class of people?

    that does not compute to produce a positive answer. all it produces is a negative answer. take a look at the world around you man. how long again do you think it will last in a way that leave humanity positively intact..even if there is no global war?

    we have made such a mess on planet earth I am surprised we have not produced hostile life forms yet that eat us to hell out, end our time in existence. but soon I am sure..soon. it is either that or some hellish creation escapes from, or is let out of a lab… and that would be that

  261. the capitalist have always been doing what they must to keep themselves at the top of the heap. what else can they do.

    what they must do is depraved and crime against humanity. the capitalist cannot keep capitalism going except at the expense of the people. the process of making profit and nothing else but profit quickly ends in systematic rigging of the process and dictatorship, skimming off all the wealth for a few.

    and when this process reaches critical mass we have the global wars..that takes the smaller wars that are always going on, and expands them into global war..world wars.

    when the process reaches critical mass there is the social concomitant of popular rebellion led by the working classes that threatens to overthrow capitalism. the capitalist discretes this rebellion into world war that makes the global working classes destroy each other, smashes vast parts of the world and rebuilds by capitalist financial sleight of hand.

    and there we go again..for another 80-100 years and we are back to square one and ready for the destruction and massive blood letting again

    and the options remains..which at this point appears to have arrived where it must be resolved finally permanently along the lines of the available options…the capitalist winning out and creating a dystopia..or the working class ordinary people win out toss capitalism and diffuses the social power into a participatory democracy

    tell me then what is wrong with this outlook..what makes you so angry about it? take it apart man..you are free to do so

  262. what do I mean by kill the dead end?

    kill the system..kill capitalism by its replacement with a real democracy.
    you have a problem reading?

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  263. is capitalism a social dead end… or is it not?

    where in capitalism does that system look out for the interest of the human species? where and when does it not look out for the minority that comes to be empowered by capitalism at the expense of all the people in the world?

    and as such and so purposed capitalism generates and drives a a mountain if lies social evils and systematic dangerous shit that is centuries old and a hundred times tall is Everest.

    what isn’t a lie: History? Politics? Philosophy and religion?

    what has not been organized for maximum deleterious effect on the human species..Agriculture and food, systems of health. education as full of lies as it is..even science twisted to suit views of life that support capitalist purpose?

    I am insane eh!

    I AM THE ONE INSANE !!!! AND I DID NOT ENGINEERS AND PRODUCE TERMINATOR SEEDS TO FEED THE HUMAN POPULATION..ANOTHER CAPITALIST PRODUCT THAT THREATENS HUMAN EXISTENCE.

    have you read what humanist scientists all say about terminator seeds..about glyphosate and Frankenstein agricultural practices now flowing out of Monsanto and its ilk?

    can the capitalist stop such behavior?

    no! they cannot! they must go on. only the people in revolutionary movement stop the capitalist kill capitalism and evolved a democracy for the people and by the people

    that is the right principle, whether the people manage to do it or not. if they manages we are hope free. if they do not, well……

  264. @obwandiyag

    All that matters is averages, trends, data, etc.

    Exceptions, outliers, data points, etc., do not matter at least where it comes to creating policy.

    Everyone knows there are some smart blacks and some dumb whites. What matters is what is generally true.

  265. @Ben Sampson

    ” You are surely white, have yout tried to count the number of people YOU have killed these past few thousand years”

    Just who have I “Killed” these past few thousand years?

    Have your black ancestors killed nobody in the past few thousand years?

    As a side note for your information : I am a professional Jazz performer, and have been since the sixties, and I have been in bands with more black musicians than I could count, added to this I shared an apartment with a black musician buddy, a drummer, for over ten years, and and I worship at the alter of Charlie Parker and John Coltrane, black musical artists of whom you have most certainly never heard.

    “Capitalism is an exploitation” : Do you consider this to be new information, as Marx said the same in his “Manifesto”, and ” Das kapital”, and his solutions for the dilema of Capitalism have ended without exception in mayhem and millions of undeserved deaths.

    Look your only drive is to install the scourge of communism/socialism within the US, and you are, in your unbounding ignorance, unaware of the fact that translated the name of the German Nazi party means : National socialist workers party.

    Authenticjazzman ” Mensa” qualified since 1973, airborne trained uS Armyvet, and pro Jazz artist.

  266. @anarchyst

    Uhhhhhh,

    the point of the conversation was whether it was possible to establish a libertarian community. And the answer is that it is possible.

    The example provided is to the issue on the table. It was not whether religions have a unique classification, in otherwords, religious exception. You are ignoring the constitutional condition of freedom of religion. You are wrong on multiple levels. But most importantly on the question under discussion.

    It would be a cheap tawdry manipulative ploy to use that exception to support a point totally irrelevant to the discussion.

    The issue of religious expression is constitutional.

    The only question I pose is to the use of federal dollars, and that expressly for religious expression. Which is under contention and in discussion. Your complaint of hypocrisy is invalid by way of the ongoing discussion on the matter and the constant attempts by government to either close the loophole or correct it by policy.

    Your attempt to change the discussion at hand is rejected. I am not in agreement. Your position is not proven. And you leave open serious questions about your motive.

    Again, the examples noted go to whether or not our society makes room for “libertarian policy”. Clearly it does. whether or not this group or that group engages in some ethical hypocrisy is not the issue. i simply acknowledge my own qualms about federal money. Something that a libertarian community would not have at issue because they reject the system in total as corrupt and will use no part of it.

    No. We are not in agreement. The example does not prove your point And your point is not made. And attempting to hang one’s laurels on that reflects the behavior of a “cheap opportunist”. I would hope that you avoid that manner of strategic pose. This was one of the few times I thought the issues center to the discussion were in play. It is not about anyone’s abuse of the rules regarding federal funds.

  267. @Ben Sampson

    You are apparently unaware that democracy and capitalism are totally compatible because is one is an economic system and the other a general descriptor for political participation.

    They are not nor do they have to be either or. Furthermore, the history of democratic governance demonstrates that improved economics by way of individual ownership actually has a positive relationship to improved participation of societies members.

    Never let it be said that the libertarian mind never misses and opportunity to ignore challenges and dance willy nilly along any line of analysis it cares to.

    Such as exemplified by your repeated comments. No analytical support, just mere assertions. You don’t address challenges, just treat them as though they never were presented.

    • Replies: @ben sampson
  268. @anarchyst

    You might have a case for hypocrisy despite it’s complete irrelevance to the issue, if the community in question contended that others must be diverse — they don’t.

    They are Hasidic and they make no demands on how others ought to organize and live. They even exist outside the frame of “mainstream” Judaic practice —

    and they are totally consistent. I only question the use of federal funds, not whether or not they qualify for the same.

    • Replies: @anarchyst
  269. ““Capitalism is an exploitation” : Do you consider this to be new information, as Marx said the same in his “Manifesto”, and ” Das kapital”, and his solutions for the dilema of Capitalism have ended without exception in mayhem and millions of undeserved deaths.”

    Actually what Karl Marx did was to restructure the hiearachy, he does not impact the process of buying or selling, but rather that the profits should be distributed to each member as a contributor to the gains. He offers no solutions to capitalism, but to distribution he and many others repeatedly overstate their case. And what destroys his contention is that he has no superior method by which to determine who decides the distribution, the direction, or the values and valuation system. Because when it comes to real world application one must have a system of decision makers and processes for the same.

    Which explains why you and so many others love the dance or mere rhetoric but avoid application.

  270. anarchyst says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    You are correct in stating that the Hasidic are not welcoming to outsiders. However, their large families and the amount of public welfare they receive is a drain on public resources from the rest of the state. Of course, they are taking advantage of the way the laws are written, but are selective in which laws they will abide by–certainly not civil-rights anti-discrimination laws (that the rest of us are expected to abide by.
    Under today’s “civil-rights” and “fair housing” laws, what the officials in Kiryas Joel are doing is blatantly illegal (for the rest of us).
    I would have no problem with Kiryas Joel, if they abided by the same standards applied to the rest of us.
    I would have no problem with Kiryas Joel , if we (gentiles) could discriminate in the same way they are permitted to do.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  271. @anarchyst

    Before I proceed, I just want to repeat, it is clear that if libertarians wanted to make their case by example, there doesn’t appear to be anything in the Constitution that would prevent it. And the examples, reinforce that point.

    —————————-
    Quakers, Mennonites, and I have not doubt there are other variations based on religious belief. The issue here is government money to religious expression, but even then, I am not convinced that the Constitution bars as much. The limit is that the federal government cannot enforce belief, not that the government cannot support citizens regardless of their religious expression.

    The type of discrimination that is barred in largely predicated on color. And color is not a culture, a belief, a practice it is only a genetic consequence similar to all other colors similarly situated. No. As I noted, because they take federal monies, i have my concerns. But what is clear is that the acts of violence which seems to be a means of intimidating is troublesome.

    But despite your admonition, these are not unsettled questions. And I would further agree that if they are packing the courts, not a unique tactic in the US. That would also be a problem. I understand your frustration.

    But I am a tad disconcerted that you would like to practice behaviors you find wrong in others.

    http://www.kiryasjoelvillage.com/

    • Replies: @anarchyst
  272. anarchyst says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    The Hasidics of Kiryas Joel are exercising one of the most basic rights: “freedom of association”. Good for them…
    Unfortunately for white males, “freedom of association” does not exist.
    This Constitutional right has been eviscerated by the various “civil-rights” amendments, statutes, and laws and replaced with government-backed and enforced “public accommodation” laws, BUT ONLY FOR GENTILE WHITES. Witness the Colorado Christian baker who has been repeatedly sued by the government for refusing to bake a homosexual-themed cake. THAT is a prime example of the denial of “freedom of association”. White heterosexual males are not a “protected” group…
    Every “protected” group, not only blacks, but other people of color, homosexuals, transgender types, and (soon to be decriminalized) pedophiles are covered under “civil-rights” laws.
    In fact, the chairman of the “civil-rights division” of the U S “Justice Department” (actually “just us” department) has stated that “people of color” cannot be racist because they do not wield or have political power as whites do and that whites ARE NOT covered under civil-rights statutes.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  273. hrk says:

    Call me an optimist but I think it all came down just a little too quickly. There are just too many white people and a surprising number are becoming curious. I hope Mr. Weissberg’s less honest colleagues live long enough to see their statues crumble and their idols inverted.

    “History is a set of lies agreed upon.” – Napoleon Bonaparte

  274. @anarchyst

    I simply don’t buy the argument. If black, yellow, brown or otherwise hasidic Jews decided to enter the community hasidic Jews, I assume the same rules would apply.

    I fully support the right of others not to be compelled to participate in cultural practices they find offensive, whether they are photographers, bakers, or candlestick makers. Those decisions are a dark turn. Especially egregious because they turn on ideologies and behaviors – not benign traits such as color. This has been a one of the many damaging challenges to the US and it has not been made by blacks.

    Unfortunately blacks have been the targets nationwide for most of the country;s history.

    note: No one is being forced to associate with blacks or vice versa. The public school system is tax supported and as such barring separate and equal – citizens must be accommodated. And it would be a mistake to associate tolerance with association – they are not the same. Further blacks are held to the same standard of tolerance. A public system whose population was predominantly black could not bar whites kids from attending based on skin color.

    Since whites hold the keys of power to this day, they have no need of protection, as a group organized via whites, based on whiteness regardless of deficiencies, they have not been disenfranchised, targeted by police, prevented from public housing, employment, education, etc.

    The actual meaning of discrimination is to the exercise of power to deny rights guaranteed by the constitution — and in this regard, whites have been the largest and most persistent executioners of discrimination. It is not about liking anyone, it is about the exercise of power.

    I think the record is demonstarbly clear whites do have access to civil liberties protections. And have been exercising that right and practice since the constitution was founded ratified.

    part of the tension point is that an increasing number of black citizens are gaining access to forums from which they previously were largely banned and the presence of blacks filling the vaccuums today alarms many.

  275. anarchyst says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    We can agree to disagree.
    I note that you are spouting the same old tired arguments about “poor blacks” being denied their civil rights while whites “hold all of the cards”. The civil-rights race card has been dead and buried for the last 50 years or so. Blacks and other minorities (yes, that includes jews) have MORE rights than “white heterosexual males”.
    It is apparent that you did not live during the first push for “civil-rights” and did not personally witness the behaviors that were evident, but not reported, because showing the TRUE nature of the so-called “civil-rights” movement would have destroyed its whole premise. Then, as now, the (lyin’) press has an agenda of “never letting a crisis go to waste”.
    Us whites who saw our natural rights being stripped away by government edict at the point of federal bayonets knew this day would come…
    Every fringe perverted group is now demanding the same “civil-rights” as those possessed by minorities, blacks and jews.
    As I previously stated (in another post), the chairman of the so-called “civil-rights” division of the Justice Department unequivocally and clearly stated that white males DO NOT have “civil-rights”. Look it up for yourself (if you dare).
    The fortunate thing is that us white males still have Constitutional rights, which trump the artificial notion of “civil-rights” every day…

  276. @EliteCommInc.

    Your postings are full of so much absurd bullshit that any attempt at responding would require tomes of futile wasted energy.

    Another self-proclaimed “expert”, actually a jack of all trades, and expert of none.
    BSers such as yourself, give me a headache and evoke Mark Twain :

    “Argue with a fool what do you get : two fools”

    “He, Marx, offers no solutions to capitalism”: Pure nonsense , as his profound and most obvious “solution” was the elimination thereof, period.

    Look friend I have read Marx in his native German lingo, and you obviously have no clue as to his basic concepts.

    AJM

    • Agree: apollonian
  277. @anarchyst

    Ohhh good grief,

    read a history book, even one written by white surpemacists or nationalists.

    The black population has generally remained constant in the US. Considering the construction of the country as to color — by the numbers 12% to 80% difference in power differential does not require a degree. And that is merely the numbers. Add on policy prescriptions — it’s not my view. it’s not my advocacy, its on the record.

    The damage done to the US you bemoan was done by whites.

    Let’s take a look briefly

    [MORE]

    slavery whites
    voting by land – whites
    voting based on skin color – whites
    separate and unequal – whites
    laws favoring corporate structures over citizens – whites
    pornography – white
    cessecion – whites
    homosexual choices to policy – whites
    employment discrimination – whites
    barring students of faith from exercising that right on campus – whites
    Free love – whites
    Unequal housing practices – whites
    Hollywood – whites
    No prayer in schools – whites
    Transgender advocacy – whites
    Vietnam era protests – whites
    Police excessive force – whites
    Controls banking – whites
    Control government – whites
    Economic policy – whites
    Education – whites
    Sport Team Owners – whites
    Silicon valley and their practices – whites
    immigration – whites
    Wars for intervention – whites
    The MIC – whites
    Wall Street – white
    Major media outlets – white
    Supreme Court – white
    tax policy — whites

    Who is a main proponent of immigration — this sites owner — white

    If one if going to look at power use and distribution through the eyes of color — there’s no debate. One doesn’t need a HS diploma if one can read to get the dynamic.

    Apparently,

    you have not been reading my comments on economic and beaurcracy — nothing i write supports a Marxian view. changing the subject is not going to change the historical record.

    • Replies: @anarchyst
    , @anarchyst
  278. @Authenticjazzman

    Apparently,

    you have not been reading my comments on economic and beaurcracy — nothing i write supports a Marxian view. changing the subject is not going to change the historical record.

    My short cut does not mean I don’t get it. But I tell you what if you can describe for me the method by which karl marx describes economic income or money creation and distribution throughout the system of societies —

    I would be curious to read it.

  279. @anarchyst

    excuse the karl marx reference —- not intended for you. and wholly unintentional.

  280. @Authenticjazzman

    Here’s hint:

    [MORE]

    “3. Economics
    Capital Volume 1 begins with an analysis of the idea of commodity production. A commodity is defined as a useful external object, produced for exchange on a market. Thus two necessary conditions for commodity production are the existence of a market, in which exchange can take place, and a social division of labour, in which different people produce different products, without which there would be no motivation for exchange. Marx suggests that commodities have both use-value — a use, in other words — and an exchange-value — initially to be understood as their price. Use value can easily be understood, so Marx says, but he insists that exchange value is a puzzling phenomenon, and relative exchange values need to be explained. Why does a quantity of one commodity exchange for a given quantity of another commodity? His explanation is in terms of the labour input required to produce the commodity, or rather, the socially necessary labour, which is labour exerted at the average level of intensity and productivity for that branch of activity within the economy. Thus the labour theory of value asserts that the value of a commodity is determined by the quantity of socially necessary labour time required to produce it. Marx provides a two stage argument for the labour theory of value. The first stage is to argue that if two objects can be compared in the sense of being put on either side of an equals sign, then there must be a ‘third thing of identical magnitude in both of them’ to which they are both reducible. As commodities can be exchanged against each other, there must, Marx argues, be a third thing that they have in common. This then motivates the second stage, which is a search for the appropriate ‘third thing’, which is labour in Marx’s view, as the only plausible common element. Both steps of the argument are, of course, highly contestable.

    Capitalism is distinctive, Marx argues, in that it involves not merely the exchange of commodities, but the advancement of capital, in the form of money, with the purpose of generating profit through the purchase of commodities and their transformation into other commodities which can command a higher price, and thus yield a profit. Marx claims that no previous theorist has been able adequately to explain how capitalism as a whole can make a profit. Marx’s own solution relies on the idea of exploitation of the worker. In setting up conditions of production the capitalist purchases the worker’s labour power — his ability to labour — for the day. The cost of this commodity is determined in the same way as the cost of every other; i.e. in terms of the amount of socially necessary labour power required to produce it. In this case the value of a day’s labour power is the value of the commodities necessary to keep the worker alive for a day. Suppose that such commodities take four hours to produce. Thus the first four hours of the working day is spent on producing value equivalent to the value of the wages the worker will be paid. This is known as necessary labour. Any work the worker does above this is known as surplus labour, producing surplus value for the capitalist. Surplus value, according to Marx, is the source of all profit. In Marx’s analysis labour power is the only commodity which can produce more value than it is worth, and for this reason it is known as variable capital. Other commodities simply pass their value on to the finished commodities, but do not create any extra value. They are known as constant capital. Profit, then, is the result of the labour performed by the worker beyond that necessary to create the value of his or her wages. This is the surplus value theory of profit.

    It appears to follow from this analysis that as industry becomes more mechanised, using more constant capital and less variable capital, the rate of profit ought to fall. For as a proportion less capital will be advanced on labour, and only labour can create value. In Capital Volume 3 Marx does indeed make the prediction that the rate of profit will fall over time, and this is one of the factors which leads to the downfall of capitalism. (However, as pointed out by Marx’s able expositor Paul Sweezy in The Theory of Capitalist Development, the analysis is problematic.) A further consequence of this analysis is a difficulty for the theory that Marx did recognise, and tried, albeit unsuccessfully, to meet also in Capital Volume 3. It follows from the analysis so far that labour intensive industries ought to have a higher rate of profit than those which use less labour. Not only is this empirically false, it is theoretically unacceptable. Accordingly, Marx argued that in real economic life prices vary in a systematic way from values. Providing the mathematics to explain this is known as the transformation problem, and Marx’s own attempt suffers from technical difficulties. Although there are known techniques for solving this problem now (albeit with unwelcome side consequences), we should recall that the labour theory of value was initially motivated as an intuitively plausible theory of price. But when the connection between price and value is rendered as indirect as it is in the final theory, the intuitive motivation of the theory drains away. A further objection is that Marx’s assertion that only labour can create surplus value is unsupported by any argument or analysis, and can be argued to be merely an artifact of the nature of his presentation. Any commodity can be picked to play a similar role. Consequently with equal justification one could set out a corn theory of value, arguing that corn has the unique power of creating more value than it costs. Formally this would be identical to the labour theory of value. Nevertheless, the claims that somehow labour is responsible for the creation of value, and that profit is the consequence of exploitation, remain intuitively powerful, even if they are difficult to establish in detail.

    However, even if the labour theory of value is considered discredited, there are elements of his theory that remain of worth. The Cambridge economist Joan Robinson, in An Essay on Marxian Economics, picked out two aspects of particular note. First, Marx’s refusal to accept that capitalism involves a harmony of interests between worker and capitalist, replacing this with a class based analysis of the worker’s struggle for better wages and conditions of work, versus the capitalist’s drive for ever greater profits. Second, Marx’s denial that there is any long-run tendency to equilibrium in the market, and his descriptions of mechanisms which underlie the trade-cycle of boom and bust. Both provide a salutary corrective to aspects of orthodox economic theory.”

    And you are totally incorrect in that it has no value. The primary thrust evaluating the value of labor itself is the empowering force to craft gilds and labor organizations — all which via different methods explore determining the price of labor as a contributor to products value.

    https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/marx/#3

    Marx does not tackle with any depth markets — but he employs a form of capitalist valuation to labor as having a distinct value as though it were a product —

  281. anarchyst says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    I would change the “damage that you demoan” to jews-not whites. Every one of the “ills” that you attribute to “whites” has actually been promoted by “jews”. Thank you for a good list…wrong antagonist–should be jews not whites…
    Regards,

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  282. anarchyst says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    I’ve taken the liberty to correct you on your penchant for blaming “whites” for jewish behavior and control:
    Here is your modified list with corrections:
    –slavery whites–actually all cultures have practiced slavery at one time or another—muslims practice slavery to this day
    –voting by land – white–which was a better system as those with “skin in the game” made policy. we should revert to that policy. we would be better off.
    –voting based on skin color – white–the majority population sets the rules
    –separate and unequal – white–still practiced today by racial and perverse minorities
    –laws favoring corporate structures over citizens– white–nope “jews”
    –pornography – whites–nope Israel is the largest purveyor of pornography and “white slavery” (prostitution) “jews”
    –secession – whites—a Constitutional right decided when the Constitution was ratified
    –homosexual choices to policy – white–nope “jews” pushed “equality” for homosexual –employment discrimination – white–nope jews were at the forefront of the so-called “civil-rights” movement and got aptitude tests banned (Griggs v. Duke Power) decision
    –barring students of faith from exercising that right on campus – white–nope “jews” again with their “freedom of (from) religion tactics. Look at how many jewish menorahs are on public property with no one making a fuss about them
    –Free love – white–nope jews again who control the music business
    –Unequal housing practices – whites–nope merely “freedom of association under contract” destroyed by jewish civil-rights laws
    –Hollywood – white—nope–Hollywood is owned lock stock and barrels by jews
    –No prayer in schools – white–nope-it’s jews again who pushed Christian prayer out of schools. Islamic and jewish ok Christians not…
    –Transgender advocacy – whites–nope jews push transgender to destabilize society
    –Vietnam era protests – whites– agitated by jews
    –Police excessive force – white–nope American police trained in Israel using Israeli military tactics Excessive force normal in Israel
    –Controls banking – white–nope controlled and run by jews
    –Control government – white–nope AIPAC and ADL control U S government
    –Economic policy – whites—nope jews run American economic policy
    –Education – white–nope jews run American public education
    –Sport Team Owners – whites with jewish influence
    –Silicon valley and their practices – whites—nope silicon valley owned by jews zuckerburg et. al.
    –immigration – white–nope jews again with open borders for everyone but Israel
    –Wars for intervention – white–nope, today’s wars run at the behest of Israeli-paid U S politicians Israel runs U S State department
    –The MIC – white–nope at the behest of our Israeli masters
    –Wall Street – white–nope predominantly owned by jews. jews run wall street
    –Major media outlets – white—nope- entirely owned and run by jews
    –Supreme Court – white nope 3 jews on the supreme court
    –tax policy — white–nope Federal Reserve owned by jews and affiliated with Rothschild banks

    Your term “white” to describe control of institutions and policies is all wrong. It is Jews who rule out of proportion to their numbers.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  283. @anarchyst

    Given that protestants far outnumber Jews, I think that unlikely. but more to your suggestion, the Jews you are talking about are white.

    • Replies: @anarchyst
  284. Your further attempts to distort the record rather peculiar response makes no sense.

    The issue is not global slavery, the issue is slavery based on a philosophical standards of equality – that is not a global standard that resides as this discussion in US boundaries.

    whether voting by land is a better system or not is not the question , but that it violated the standard on which the country was founded — as does the entire policy regarding treatment based on skin color — the issue is that either prescription utterly contradicts the principles on which the country was founded. by denying that which was guaranteed by all citizens, whites set the rules in violation of the “law and order” press they claimed to embrace. That is generally called hypocrisy — I am sure you remember that — as you were in a state regarding what you mistakenly attempted to lay at the feet of the community that has invited your visitation to some other issues such — as we are currently on path now. Changing the subject will not change history.

    I find it troubling that you know so little about US history, that your constant referain is to point your finger at Jews, despite the fact that Jews were the least involved in establishing and, maintaining and exercising power in the US , to be jewish is not to skin color, it is to culture/belief.
    The US population that controlled US institutions and polity is in all ways predominantly white

    Whether one wants to note point fingers at: white Jews, white protestants, white hindis, white catholics, white muslims . . .

    Your view of US history based on the responses suggests that the US did not start until the 20th Century and that late in the Century. And worse suppose your conclusions about Jews as white as they are is accurate – it’s not merely assertions on your part, I find it curious that whites have embraced all of these bad Jewish polity, not only benefited but advanced, whites north, south east and west . . .

    And I think your aha moment about three jews on the Supreme court in all of the court’s history says just how unfounded on reason your entire response is.

    Your attempt to misconstrue the point of the list by suggesting I am calling institutions white is inaccurate — it’s not the institutions. it is the exercise of power and the locus of control — that is by whites, regraadless of whether said whites are protestant, catholic, hindi, jewish or some other belief system or ethic.

    Your response is the

    “Devil made me do it,” in this case

    The jews made me do it –”

    fails.

  285. anarchyst says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    You are correct. But as you should know, jews identify as “jews” FIRST. This differentiates them from just about every other racial and ethnic group.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  286. @anarchyst

    Skin color is not an ethnicity, it is a biological trait of varying skin tones.

    The Jews involved in power dynamics are as white as the whites protestants, catholics, hindis, muslims, and other white ethnics who are and have been in power — your large concerns are the result of whites.

    If whiteness is your choice of lens, then it’s whites who own several lions of the share of the mess you decry.

  287. @EliteCommInc.

    hahaha! you guys are still at this with your irrelevancies eh flowing thick like mud.

    you guys must get out more often. there is an interplay essential between analysis and reality as it takes place on the streets of the world.

    whats happening on the streets of France is fare more relevant than all this jackass talk here. get out there guys and see whats going on..try to understand it. far more fruitful than this talk here

    reality is like science..once fact about life is established, proven… there can be no more argument about it. instead of all this talk go prove or disprove something…. go see if what I said is valid. understanding Gilet Jaune may help you all vastly in that

  288. @ben sampson

    I am quite fond of the French, they were gracious when I visited. And I walked miles and miles, sometimes in the dead of night and don’t recall ever being afraid regardless of the neighborhood.

    And while the issues at stake in France are important.

    I don’t live in France. And I am quite certain, that France will go on regardless of my views on their social processes. Viva la France.

    However, (to my knowledge) I am not a french citizen.

    Sometimes what you said was valid. Little of what you have said is either true or accurate.

  289. @anarchyst

    i think we have reached an end to the position, actually some time ago when you simply rearranged the deck chairs. Yo cannot escape our history by blaming Jews because you think by doing so advance some means of pretending that whites have not engaged in policies against blacks first and foremost based on skin color..

    If the lens that you choose is to whiteness, then you have own the consequence by that lens. If I chose that lens and had to face the consequence, I might very well engage in the hypocrisy you wish to heap on others.

    But I am still waiting for that due process, that is claimed as to the constitutional right to cecede from the union.

  290. @ben sampson

    finally..Elite CommInc…

    let me admit that you are like what older black activists used to refer to as an iron ass..who could sit on a pile of social shit forever, endlessly, pick it apart, then pick it apart again, but never lift a finger to clean it up, correct it, set it right.

    I noted you here..talk, and talk, and talk, and talk…you know truth but its exposure with intent to correct and make better totally absent from your perspective.

    simple facts like vested interests with legs that reside in organized groups, that can find full expression, expand to subsume whole movements they came up in and lead them astray into further minority control, exploitation again.

    how much explanation does that need, how many references as written by previous experts cited as experience we can use to try avoid and prevent such potential developing in new collective movements aimed at ending exploitation and evolving a democracy?

    that is what has happened in all previous popular movements that contained such potentials that developed to consume revolutionary movements. that is why some experts came to the conclusion that revolutions lead by political parties contains their own destruction..the political parties themselves that are organized on partisan principles and in power will establish their own dictatorship..which would be state capitalism and bureaucratic dictatorship

    so how to avoid such a development, how to protect a popular movement from such organized minority interest they contain that are dangers to the popular movement, that represent a future exploitation and social danger?

    [MORE]

    that’s the fact man…that is what experiences has taught. what are we to be directed by..experts and references, reading this one and that one? Marxism helped us to understand what was happening to the revolutions, why they failed. but to speak of it I must reference Marx and Lenin, and this one and that one. what the hell for? what about our experience right now..isn’t it sovereign, king?

    we know now that if the revolutions are to succeed they must be as spontaneous as possible, without the benefit of the agitation and drive and initiative and direction of any party at all. the people’s experience of and in the exploitation is sufficient. they know, they live it, fight it, are developed by it,evolved socially in it.. and as a result of all that are capable of coalescing just like that on some initiatory event of precipitation just like that into a vast popular movement in revolutionary activity that sweeps everything before it…Gilet Jaune.

    how many times have wee seen this? many times!

    how do we respond?

    we know that in the original movement lies the democracy..the bested interest of the people as a whole. they are the ones with the general cast iron social interest out of which the popular democracy can come. the people are all, inclusive of all elements whose only point of organization is work for a living..and the only way they can secure such work, secure their now and future is to take it all over and run it themselves in their own interest. so as a democrat what will you do..what would you work for if such a situation opens up before you? will you side with the people and help them beat back all the challenges to their opportunity..those who infiltrate and lead it astray by all manner of efforts often of great sophistication?

    I know where you will be man..Leading the Libertarian change to take over the revolution, to subvert the collective peoples power for the minority effort.

    and that is what the other dam fool is about attacking me as if I am some kind of political ogre. I want to insinuate despicable Marxist nonsense into the situation. nothing could be further from the Truth. Marx was not god. Marx made a sterling contribution to understanding capitalism and to the methods of social analysis. that is what I understand of Marx. I use whats to hand and move on.

    the chronology of revolutionary points I have described I have seen with my own eyes, happened in my life and times. I see it happening again, right now. look! its there in France and elsewhere right now. Marx is long dead..he has nutten to do with it. what the hell am I to do with reality…there it is? I reach into what I know, my own experience as guide. then I look for more help and guide if what I have is not enough, by going into the body of analysis left by the intellects…and those who are alive and working now

    as for the French..f they can maintain the ‘purity’ of their movement and take it home they just have have a moment to create successfully, the democracy inherent in their vested interest, from the ground up they, participatory..they need to secure the French future. that would be the successful example the world need also…to follow, to be guided by.

    and for the other Jazz nut! I look for solutions, answers etc for my own erudition and survival. Truth is all. if its not truthful in execution of plans for survival I will be wrong, lose out and die. if I am truthful I can plan and execute with great sophistication win and live. I will not deny what I prove to be true.

    I am not like americans fighting to maintain lost cause as that nation and people decline out of power..finally giving the rest of the world an opportunity to begin a long climb out of the great trauma and resulting insanity America has been in the world, to the rest of the human species. and of course we must extend the effects of america right back to the emergence of white people as an historical factor in the life of Homo Sapiens

    the truth I see underpins what I have said..and what I have said contains resolution of humans problems that include white people. but that is result of the facts I see and logical analysis. it ought not to be regarded as some kind of love and respect on part for white people..that includes the Jazz man and such as you CommInc…the Iron Ass.

    I am part white myself by my father, who was a white man..a brutal mutherfucker who used to beat the shit out of his wife..my mother..reduced her to a cipher before he died. even now I see some of the blows I saw as a child. when they flashed at previous times it used to freak me out. now they don’t bother no more when I remember..lots of time has passed.

    but by experience I don give a fuck about white people..even if I give all the necessary nods to the white people I have met who were of some human worth by their behavior and participation in the life around them. again the question of truth and its recognition…there are those white people too but way too few and far between. but you two Imps talk as if someone cares of you, for you, on you value and human worth which as far as I see is ZERO!

    it is truth that’s what..we can make a work at once peaceful and prosperous, secure for all humans, that meets all human deed, frees humanity form insecurity to focus on the development of human truth in our efforts to meet our existential challenge of winning on-going, indefinite survival in nature. its a long time now Homo accomplished the means to do that..solve Homo’s material needs, on an on-going upward developmental life..meaning making human conditions of existence better and better exponentially as we go. in fact dealing with the material question is easier than coming to grips with our existence such as it is, working out the universe and what that is. we do’t know shit at this point although we behave as if we are gods

    once we get past all the limiting lying, idiotic, greedy and stupid white intellectual, emotional, economic, war etc shit the world opens up and out to unimaginable possibilities, endless potential positive and negative. the universe opens up as a likely integrated whole with endless possibilities. the point is to get rid of useless white bullshit, reduce white people to the ordinary so that they can come again but directed by truth of life as brought into the human base by a democracy in which truth does not threaten any vested interest and so become the essential tool of Homo’s survival

    ONLY THE DEMOCRACY..THE POPULAR DEMOCRACY..BY THE PEOPLE, CREATED IN, AND OUT OF THE CRUCIBLE OF CAPITALIST EXPLOITATION OF HOMO..OF CAPITALIST WAR AND GLOBAL WAR AND HUMAN ANNIHILATION, HUMAN PRESSURE AN ENGINEERING OF HUMANITY..DIRECTED BY TRULY EVIL, HORRID PEOPLE AT THE TOP OF WHITE FOOD CHAIN…ONLY THIS DEMOCRACY CAN GUARANTEE TRUTH TO BE FREE FOR THE HUMAN SPECIES..THE ESSENTIAL CONDITION OF SURVIVAL

    if there is a popular democracy all social classes are subsumed into threat class.. there are no more vested social interest but the popular one..the peoples collective interest in universal conditions of existence. there is no stinking parasitic elite class, sitting on top of humanity, that shuts down truth by general censorship of all the organs of communication, poisons education, even personal speech and individual thought. they can even get into the mind and shut it down by disciplining outside of the mind and what goes into it

    all I see you guys as are fools really, in love with a Hellish truncation of human existence and holding it forth as if an end in itself, beautifying it as if polishing shit shiny as if that could hide its stench. screw insane Libertarianism.

    screw just about all that is white and capitalist. the world is evolutionary time and the interaction of the electrical parts in motion of the integrated whole that is the universe always in mot producing expansion continuously, always..endless potential. what humans have at this point appears barely rudimentary relative to universal potential that easily consume us as to help us..depending on which it turns according to its own laws about which we yet do not know. all of this proves the true insanity of white domination of the human species..the single most powerful and hazardous fetter on the human feet, holding us back white domination

    and CommInc and the Jazzman here on this page are good examples of this waste that is white domination of Homo’s existence at this point. we successfully navigate away from white domination of forget it..the options are global annihilation or social dystopia. and I expect to see CommInc and the Jazzman in the forefront of both options as they happen. there is no way these 2 limitations are going to agree to any world in which their nonsense is not dominant

    no time to edit Imps. read it or leave it

  291. @ben sampson

    me talk talk talk..that’s you man..the iron ass.

    I invited you to dig into what I say, take it apart etc.

    I posted up my assessment and stand by it. you and your libertarian sectarian nonsense..and you just wont quit man..that’s the the interesting thing…why I am still here. interesting! but this is it..my last post

    you are an amazing person, or a committee….relentless!

    what in tarnation drives you so..prolly pure insanity. there is nutten involved here..just a commentary section..you toss your perspective and let it all flow and maybe you learn something. not even the ignorant, violent Jazzman had this relentlessness..he seemed far more human than CommInc.

    you read like a group of people in a CommIn entity..a corporation altogether. no one person can be like that eh. oh mi god!

    anyhow I am done. events always sorts out the difficulties.

    I don’t care about America you know. I would be happy if a sanitary cordon was erected around the USA and all of it kept in for good. the rest of the planet can then go on. Pheeew!

    I am not fearful of europe. the rest of the planet can deal with europe, civilize it. I don’t think that is possible with Rabid USA..in tandem with the Khazars. of course we will have to move Israel well into the cordon, fixing it there. jeeeez

    we may have to sacrifice the Black americans but then again if I can put up the cordon I can get them out first. hahahahahah

    and that would that..as this is is the end of my contribution to this thread here. Pheeeeeeeeeew. Elite CommInc eh. you must be a mutation of some sort

    all the best…and goodbye. hahahahahaha

  292. @ben sampson

    I have responded in depth to each and everyone of your admonitions and arguments. I have no idea how to respond to personal attacks that veer off into the nonsensical irrelevant ethos or practice of older black men. That makes no sense.

    As for my practice in the social and political. You have absolutely no clue what my has been like, nor what political or social constructs i have engaged.

    Your trip into soothesaying has the depth and accuracy of your assertions, nil.

    What you call explainations are devoid of very little support, what rationale you engage to support it has serious flaws in and outright contradictions as I note in my responses.

    You aren’t even aware despite the references provided that capitalism and democracy are two very different systems. But what is clear is that capitalism has been valuable in empowering democratic participation. The complaint you are making is not about capitalism, but rather violations to capitalisms principles.

    And your complaint here that I don’t respond further to what you clearly have mangled previously is largely due to one simple observation — you have avoided response to very specific responses. That too is a response I note previously. Your generalized arguments skip the interior of positions. You remind me of Karl Marx, save this, Karl marx, admitted he didn’t understand how markets created liquid (money creation) – central to what capitalism addresses.

    Marx’s primary complaint is to money distribution and valuation via the laborer. His complaint about the internal greed of humans is not alleviated by getting rid of capitalism or restructuring the valuation of product via labors input. Every single complaint that Marx makes can be found in communist and socialist systems because nothing about them cures greed — that is an internal ethical determinant.

    I think we have been down this road . . .

  293. My view is to avoid sacrificing any citizen. In very deep contrast to many on the site and in the end, even in contrast to advocates for utpoian ideologies:

    socialism, communism and libertarianism.

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