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Why Do Blacks Outperform Whites in UK Schools?
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VDARE.com Editor Peter Brimelow writes: And now for something completely different…I was deeply impressed to receive this contribution from Zambian immigrant Chanda Chisala, who has emerged as one of the most ingenious opponents of the race-IQ hypothesis. Our Ruling Class’s position, as shown by the Stephen Miller and “Judge” Ashley Tabaddor farces, is that VDARE.com should simply be shunned, not engaged in rational debate. Naturally, we think this is because Ruling Class positions cannot stand up to rational debate. So we have a soft spot for mainstream figures who have nevertheless engaged us in rational debate, for example University of London Professor Eric Kaufmann, more recently the author of Whiteshift: Populism, Immigration, and the Future of White Majorities,and the blogger Razib Khan, hired and fired as a New York Times columnist on the same day because he had written us a letter back in 2000 disagreeing—disagreeing!—with something we’d posted. I very much hope nothing nasty happens to Chanda Chisala as a result of his commitment to the West’s scientific method.

VDARE.com recently published an interesting article,Race Denier Chanda Chisala Does Not Deserve His 15 Seconds of Twitter Fame by Lance Welton, responding to my Unz Review articles on the superior scholastic performance of black African high school kids in the UK, who now consistently outperform British whites, thereby putting into serious question the race-genetics-IQ promoted by the Human Biodiversity (HBD) intellectual movement (henceforth, HBDers).

Welton’s article contained a number of errors and misunderstandings that I would like to correct, and hopefully help the reader to get a better grasp of the very real challenge posed to the race hypothesis by the UK’s test score data. I will end by demonstrating that the only “logical” HBD response to this unexpected data—the claim that these high-scoring Africans must be just children of highly selected Africans—is itself untenable, which should make the race hypothesis implausible, and thus falsified.

Is Race Really Real?

Welton’s errors begin on a personal level with the very first words in the title: ‘Race denier Chanda Chisala…’ The idea that anyone who opposes the conclusions of HBDers is somehow some radical “woke” progressive liberal who denies the very existence of race or the possibility of any gene-based individual (or population-level) differences is rather presumptuous. I’m not and I don’t.

I guess Welton did not bother to read anything I’ve written on the subject in the past since he could not spare more than “15 seconds” of his time. I am as far from a “race denier” as you can get, and I believe I made this clear in at least one of those articles at UNZ that he lambasts:

“I am not arguing against the heredity of intelligence in families or tribes or (theoretically) even races. Neither am I arguing that all ethnicities and races on earth necessarily have the same average intelligence, presently or potentially, or that races do not even exist – all straw men that so many commenters have been ascribing to me so that they could enjoy the illusion of making an argument. The average (genetic) potentials of intelligence could indeed be as varied as the heights of different populations. What I have contested is the empirical evidence for the specific genotypic estimates and rankings of the racial cognitive heights, if you will.” [emphasis added.]

Closing the Black-White IQ Gap Debate, Part 3, December 9, 2015

In short, I have never thought that race is nothing more than a mere “social construct”; my humble academic background is in biology, not sociology. Populations that have lived separately for a very long time are probably bound to have some differences that are a little more than skin deep.

But that does not automatically mean that the way these populations rank now, under strongly variable environmental pressures, is necessarily the way they would be ranked under optimal conditions, when no one faces any significant detrimental assaults.

Similarly, genotypic heights are bound to be different among different individuals, families, tribes and races, but this does not mean that what we see now among these groups reflects their ultimate genetic height rankings. (For example, Nigerians are reportedly shorter than Koreans under current height rankings—should we assume this is how it will be even when all environments are optimized for full genetic height development?

Welton also suggests that I’m also “environmental determinist” and, even more puzzlingly, a “science denier.” And just in case his reader hasn’t yet despised this race-and-science-denying environmental determinist enough he throws in a bit of slander for good measure:

But to reach this conclusion, Chisala has manipulated and misrepresented his data.

To accuse someone of manipulating data is of course an attack on his integrity. The simplest evidence that I have “manipulated” nothing is the fact that this UK cognitive data was troubling to many race hereditarians themselves long before I was involved in the debate. [A Troublesome Intelligence? by Chanda Chisala, Unz.com, September 26, 2018]

And that was when they thought the British children were scoring only an equivalent of 8 IQ points above the black African kids, despite the black children being drawn from a population that is supposed to be about 30 IQ points lower. When I entered the debate by showing that their “troubling” data was in fact misleading (those children who were from English-speaking African countries like Nigeria, Ghana and Zimbabwe were already outscoring the British whites), it was not long before some of the more mathematically adept HBD bloggers started publicly declaring that they were “now agnostic as to the real cause of the intelligence gap”! [Changing My Mind About Race and IQ, Jason Bayz, September 18, 2017]

Can Blacks Do Math?

When Welton finally leaves the ad hominem mode and decides to make some actual arguments against my observations, it quickly becomes clear why he needed to first poison the well so viciously: he actually does not have any good argument.

He begins by rehashing the arguments that I’ve most easily refuted already. He of course calls my refutations mere “attempts” at refutation, but fails to show why those “attempts” fail:

Clearly, GCSE [General Certificate of Secondary Education, a U.K, standardized achievement test] Math is a better proxy for IQ than GCSE Art or GCSE Physical Education. Yet Chisala’s data relates to students’ best 8 GCSE scores and the students’ mean pass rate, meaning it does not distinguish between “hard” and “soft” GCSEs.

My easy refutation of this claim was just to present the group scores in GCSE Math (and GCSE English) separately. The Africans in question outscored the British whites even in those “hard” GCSEs. So why would anyone continue to insist that eight subjects are invalid because they contain some easier subjects?

I was curious to see the big counterargument that he promises to diffuse my “attempt” at refuting this point. But it only betrayed Welton’s unfamiliarity with both the history of the IQ debate in general, and the UK GCSEs in particular.

Welton’s big counterargument to the higher math scores of Africans, right after saying they only score well because the eight subjects are too easy, is this: it doesn’t matter if those blacks are outscoring British whites in math because math is not an IQ test anyway!

Unbelievable? Let’s see it in his own words:

Chisala attempts to get around this problem by showing that Africans in the UK—as distinct from those of Caribbean heritage—score higher than whites even on GCSE Mathematics. The obvious counter-argument is that GCSE Mathematics is still not the same as an IQ test. It includes coursework, for example. This is not done against the clock, so it will favor those who are high in certain personality traits, such as Conscientiousness (‘rule-following’ and ‘impulse control’). These traits are themselves associated quite strongly with educational success …and, according to some studies, migration.

This has been the modus operandi of many HBDers in this debate. When a goal is scored against them (or even an own-goal by themselves), they simply shift the goal posts and declare it a non-goal.

First it was “Blacks can’t outperform whites in school anywhere in the world – just find one country where they do and it’s game over.”

When it was shown that black Africans do perform better than whites in the UK, it changed to “well, those are just pass rates, they can’t outperform whites when you look at actual scores.”

When actual scores were found and presented, it changed to, “Well, that’s in eight subjects; blacks can only beat whites in eight subjects because most of those are easy subjects, unlike hard subjects like math.”

When actual scores in math were found and presented, it has apparently now changed to “Oh, GCSE math has a lot of coursework, and blacks only beat UK whites in math because coursework requires conscientiousness rather than intelligence; if there was no coursework, whites would obviously beat blacks.”

In short, those high-scoring Africans are actually not that smart, they are just more serious about work, like all immigrants, and they would never beat whites if coursework was removed and it became a time-controlled hard test like the SATs in America.

On such a timed test, the greater brains will prevail, and that’s the British whites. Makes sense, right?

Well, it seems they might have to shift those tired goal posts once again!

It turns out that Welton does not quite know the GCSE system very well, which is why he imagines that he has the final “obvious” counterargument in this endless chain of shifting goal posts. GCSE mathematics does not actually have any coursework. It has not had coursework since 2009. Yes, it is indeed done “against the clock,” as he desires, just like the SATs.

In fact, when the coursework was abandoned for the very reasons expressed by Welton, the perennial UK trend of girls beating boys in GCSE math ended immediately. [Boys overtake girls in maths GCSE as coursework dropped, by Polly Curtis, Guardian, August 27, 2009 ] Boys started outperforming girls, just as they do on the math section of the American SATs, which probably confirms an increase in the g-loading (cognitive complexity) of the GCSE math sans coursework.

However, Africans from English-speaking countries still out-performed whites—which should indicate, by the hereditarians’ own theory, that this black African advantage is really on general intelligence (g) itself.

If anything, it appears that it is the British whites whose performance improves when you remove the harder subjects (math and English), while the African performance goes down drastically without their advantage on the math and English sections.

Although more data is probably needed to prove this more conclusively, it does seem like the diametric opposite of what Welton and other HBD enthusiasts predict:

Source: Back to Basics: Towards a Successful and Cost-Effective Integration Policy
Source: Back to Basics: Towards a Successful and Cost-Effective Integration Policy

Yes, math scores are not IQ tests, but the whole point of this debate—the entire reason that the debate exists in the academic world—is to resolve the claim that racial IQ differences are what ultimately explain things like math score differences between black and white Americans. Arthur Jensen’s famous article that relaunched this debate in modern times was precisely titled “How much can we boost IQ and Scholastic Achievement?” [Harvard Educational Review, Vol. 39, No. 1, Winter 1969]

Jensen’s controversial answer was that the wide test score gap cannot be closed between blacks and whites in America because of differing biological capacities that produce an intractable IQ gap.

Richard Lynn, Philippe Rushton and others later proclaimed that this large gap between American blacks and whites on scholastic achievements should be universal, because it is rooted in the evolution of biological race itself rather than something specific to the historical black experience in America.

Anyone who rejected this universal race-based conclusion was openly challenged to find just one multiracial society where this was not conspicuously true—where whites did not vastly outperform blacks in school—and this would be accepted as a simple falsification.

If a multiracial society is found where these race differences in intelligence are absent, the evolutionary and genetic theory of these differences would be falsified. Those who maintain that there are no genetic differences in intelligence between the races are urged to attempt this task. – Richard Lynn. (Emphasis added) [ Consistency of race differences in intelligence over millennia: A comment on Wicherts, Borsboom and Dolan. Personality and Individual Differences, January 2010]

Lynn only asked that such a society be found for the falsification to apply, no ifs or buts.

And it’s not an unreasonable standard in biology: I believe one can plausibly say “if you find one multiracial society in which East African runners are outperformed by any other regional or racial group in the long distance races, you would falsify the strong genetic hypothesis for the higher long distance running speeds of those Kenyans and Ethiopians.”

When I humbly heeded Lynn’s bold open challenge to “attempt this task” and found one such society where the gap did not appear to exist in favor of whites at all (in Lynn’s own “multiracial society” of Great Britain), I expected the HBDers to at least admit, by their own standard, that this simple unambiguous falsification standard had apparently been met.

Instead, by doing exactly what they had asked for, I only proved that I was a “science denier”!

Can you see why someone might suspect that this once-valid scientific hypothesis is now beginning to exude the obstinate fervor of a pseudoscience?

The Super-Selected Immigrants?

Welton eventually makes the single argument he should have made in the first place: that African blacks in the UK are merely the most cognitively selected segment from Africa. This supposedly makes it possible for them to score above whites on average, even if they come from a race that is cognitively inferior on average.

Remember, the more universal your claim, the more it can potentially be falsified by a simple singular unambiguous event, which is why Lynn was right to give such a simple falsifying standard. It is not the complex confirmatory data that is critical for a hypothesis; it is the potentially disconfirmatory data.

If you hypothesize that all swans are white, it doesn’t matter how “overwhelming” the number of white swans you’ve observed in the past is; it will take only one black swan—no pun intended—to falsify your universal hypothesis.

So does this African immigrant self-selection explanation survive under any level of serious scrutiny?

There are two main reasons why the super-selection argument fails to save the race hypothesis:

  1. Arthur Jensen and regression to(wards) the mean

If it is true that the African immigrants are a select group whose IQ is, say 2 standard deviations above the African mean, their children should still regress significantly downwards—regression to the mean.

No, I am not saying they should regress all the way down to average African IQ. They should regress TOWARDS that mean IQ. In other words, their IQ should be significantly lower than that of their “selected” migrating parents, even if higher than the average of their source population.

Jensen and others demonstrated that black American parents with relatively high IQ (and high income) still produce children with IQs that are so low that they score lower than poor whites in school tests. Note that these are black American parents—the ones coming from a higher IQ population than Africans, supposedly because they carry more white genes!

Think about that for a moment. The hereditarian reason that those elite black American parents (average IQ around 110) have their children being outscored by poor whites (not just average whites, but poor ones—household combined income $20,000 per year, and IQ less than 100) is because they come from a genetic population that has a low average IQ of 85.

Keep that in mind, even if you don’t understand precisely how it works: Population IQ of 85 pulls down their children so way down that even low IQ poor whites outscore them.

So, what should happen to children of Africans whose parents are at 110 but are being pulled downwards towards IQ 70 (not 85)? They should score even lower than those children of high IQ black Americans who are outscored by poor whites—not to mention the average whites!

Hereditarian scholar Gregory Cochran has given us an idea of how smart black Americans have to be for them to produce children who can outscore whites in school:

Consider IQ. Imagine a set of parents with IQs of 120, drawn from a population with an average IQ of 100. Suppose that the narrow-sense heritability of IQ (in that population, in that environment) is 0.5. The average IQ of their children will be 110. That’s what is usually called regression to the mean. Do the same thing with a population whose average IQ is 85. We again choose parents with IQs of 120, and the narrow-sense heritability is still 0.5. The average IQ of their children will be 102.5—they regress to a lower mean.

[The Breeder’s Equation, Edge.org, January 1, 2017]

Notice how smart a select population of black parents have to be to just produce children that score slightly above average white children—50 IQ points above the African mean IQ!

If that doesn’t already sound ridiculous to you, consider that this calculation is in fact for black Americans, whose mean IQ is 85. The black African parents would have to be much smarter than 120 IQ to produce children who are at or just above white average IQ.

If a population of black American parents need to be IQ 120 to produce IQ102.5 children on average, black African parents (regressing toward IQ 70) would need to be at 135 IQ!

Yes, to migrate from Africa supposedly requires the cognitive endowment of a gifted American surgeon! [Modern IQ ranges for various occupations, IQ Comparison Site]

In fact, the occupation profile of these African immigrant parents certainly doesn’t reflect such ridiculously high surgeon-type IQs, but maybe the HBDers have another creative explanation:

This reductio ad absurdum should be enough to cause at least some modest level of consternation in an honest HBDer.

For the more math-demanding: you can simply estimate from the normal distribution how many Nigerians (for example) can have IQ 135—the IQ needed to produce children who can score above whites—and compare that with the number of Nigerian parents who actually migrated to the UK (or the US). At IQ 135, and mean of 70 with standard deviation of 15, you should find only 1403 Nigerians from the current population of 190.9 million. And since we are only talking about parents, there should be less than 700 such super-smart people.

Well, the number of Nigerian migrant parents in the UK is certainly nowhere near as low as 700. One estimate of the number of Nigerian-born people in the UK: 190,000 [Number of Nigerians living in the UK, Office for National Statistics, May 18, 2018].

Of course not all of these are parents, but no matter how much you want to quibble on some figure in this rough calculation, there is no way that the number of migrating parents is anywhere near the number required for an average IQ of 135.

This is even more dispositive when you try the same math on the migrants from Nigeria’s neighboring country, Ghana, with its much smaller home population.

  1. University Graduates’ IQ

HBDer Gregory Cochran, who (to his credit) has apparently now accepted the fact that at least some African immigrant do perform very well in the UK, has unfortunately also embraced this mistaken “super-immigrant” explanation. He writes:

“Nigerians in the UK seem to be a very non-random sample, highly selected: most of them have at least some college while maybe 5% of the general population in Nigeria does.”

An American Dilemma, West Hunter, October 24, 2019

Thus Cochran assumes that Nigerian migrants are highly selected for cognitive ability because they have much more college education than the general Nigerian population. If the IQ of college graduates is unknown, one might be justified in estimating that there is very high cognitive selection in a migrant group if most of them have “some college” education.

But J. Philippe Rushton reports that the average IQ of African university students is indeed not that high above what he reports as the average IQ of Africa: only in the high 70s! [Thirty years of research on race differences in cognitive ability, by Rushton and Jensen, Psychology, Public Policy, and Law, June 2005]

Rushton also tested the IQ of students at an elite African university in the most developed African country and reported that it was only around 85!

So even if you stipulated there was 100 percent university graduates in the African immigrant population, that would still make their IQ only in the high 70s.

And in fact the fraction of university graduates among these immigrants is never even 50 percent, which makes deriving high cognitive selection from these facts even more problematic.

The only way to try to get out of this trap is to suggest that these university graduates are only IQ 78 because of the harsh African environment:

…some people have argued that the hereditarian view on race and IQ is falsified by the fact that the offspring of immigrants don’t always regress back as far as one would expect given their parent’s IQ. The mistake in this reasoning is to calculate the predicted degree of regression based on the parent’s IQ as opposed to the IQ they would have had if they grew up in a first world Western nation.

Regression to the Mean, by Ryan Faulk, The Alternative Hypothesis, January 16, 2017

But this is even more self-defeating.

If you say that these parents would have indeed been above 135 (instead of IQ in the 70s or 80s) had they grown up in the UK, then you are suggesting that the African environment depressed their IQs by around 50 IQ points or more—which more than defeats your hypothesis!

Thus, even if you reverse the procedure of the calculation, it doesn’t solve your problem. If the parents have IQ in the high-70s or even mid-80s, but their children are in the 100s (instead of regressing way lower than their super-selected parents) due to being brought up in a more advanced Western country, then you are still saying that the African environment depresses IQ by 30 points or more, which still eradicates and/or reverses the racial IQ gap.

Or Maybe It’s IQ 85?

When HBDers see that the math is just not working for them, they start offering that the real or genetic IQ of Africans should be significantly higher than 70 and concede that it would be so if Africa had a better environment. They usually assert that it should be 85, like the blacks in America.

When you ask them how the black Africans could be the same exact IQ as a group that has more “superior” white genes in them (black Americans have over 20 percent white admixture and IQ 85), they simply become more creative:

“The slaves who were captured in Africa and sent to America must have had very low IQ—because they allowed themselves to be captured—and only came back up to 85 after they got some white genes in them!”

How neatly convenient: the “dumb” African slaves just happened to have a cognitive deficit that also happened to be the exact amount that whites would generously restore to them through a random genetic contribution!

Never mind the fact that many of these “dumb” slaves were captured from a tribe called the Igbo, which the same HBDers started claiming is an exceptionally bright tribe when I first wrote my first article revealing how African tribes perform in the UK! [The IQ Gap Is No Longer a Black and White Issue, Unz.com, June 25, 2015 ]

The biggest problem with accepting this IQ 85, however, is that it still doesn’t solve the problem of IQ 120 migrant parents. If they should be 120 to produce children who are slightly above the white mean, but are below IQ 90 due to being brought up in an African environment, then the African environment artificially depressed their IQ by 30 points or more.

Again, this means environment trumps genes, and so is a total refutation of the race hypothesis. The hypothesis still dies, even if it dies less.

Besides, the same HBDers who say that African genotypic IQ should be closer to 85 than 70, also tout the works of HBD researchers like Davide Piffer who claim to have found new genetic evidence that it should be closer to 70 (or less) than 85. They want to have their cake and eat it too.

Honest HBDers owe it to scientific integrity to admit that their hypothesis is now falsified by unmanipulated empirical data.

Chanda Chisala (email him) is a former Knight Fellow and former Visiting Scholar at the Hoover Institute, Stanford University. You can support his ongoing self-funded contributions to the IQ Debate through www.patreon.com/Chisala

(Republished from VDare by permission of author or representative)
 
• Category: Race/Ethnicity, Science • Tags: Africans, Blacks, Britain, Race and Iq 
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  1. Realist says:

    Without consulting black/white test score it would appear that blacks have a distinct intelligence advantage over whites in the UK in light of the fact that blacks have convinced UK whites that diversity is their strength. Blacks have prevailed upon the inferior whites of the UK to allow themselves to be displaced by blacks, thus turning a once proud, industrious nation into a shithole.

  2. “Honest HBDers owe it to scientific integrity to admit that their hypothesis is now falsified by unmanipulated empirical data.”

    No.

    (1) Sub-ethnic data in not available on the national level, for this there is just “Black African”. Data on subgroups like “Nigerians” is not representative. Usually it is from local authorities.

    (2) Checking the latest data, Black African perform about as well as Whites on age 7 to 16 GCSE, but worse on A-levels. https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/education-skills-and-training

    (3) One can only say then that for those local authorities for which there is data, certain subgroups of Black Africans do better than Whites on average on 7-16 GCSE math and reading.

    (4) However, quite a few reports show that GCSE point scores — such as strong pass (grade 5 or above) — have mediocre correlations with good measures of IQ. This is why universities additionally use cognitive tests for selection.

    (5) You argue that intelligence (the predictor) is irrelevant, and that what matters is the specific criterion (e.g., GCSE, education attainment). However the hereditarian hypothesis is directly about intelligence differences, not the outcomes it predicts.

    (6) Thus, logically, you can only conclude, based on these data, if indeed representative, that, a typical hereditarian racial-intelligence explanation for ethnic differences in GCSE is falsified.

    (7) However the question is: Why? Your conjecture that it is so because certain Black African ethnic groups in Britain are significantly more intelligent than British Whites is only a conjecture.

    (8) To falsify the actual hereditarian model for intelligence difference, you need to provide intelligence scores that can not be explained by idiosyncratic factors such as selection.

    (9) You have yet to do this.

    (10) Given the above, in adjudicating, we must weigh the totality of the evidence, which supports, more than not, an evolutionary hypothesis of differences in intelligence, such as proposed by Jensen (1998).

    It is as if someone claimed : Swans are naturally white.

    And they pointed out that all hitherto studied swans have been found to be so.

    But you pointed to the reflection in the water of a swan that appeared black.

    We would want to know, first, if that reflection is accurate; second, if so, if there might be some artificial explanation for that.

  3. @J.G.R. Fuerst

    In the spirit of knowledge-seeking, I offer to organize a preregistered study of ethnic African intelligence differences among UK youth, if you are willing to fund it — it would cost no more than a couple of thousand USD for a sufficiently large, nationally stratified sample, recruited via the internet, and tested using (The International Cognitive Ability Resource) ICAR. (My funds are being sunk into admixture studies.)

    Otherwise, and in absence of finding proper evidence, as specified above, do not pretend that the issue has been decided in your favor.

    • Replies: @Richard B
  4. @Realist

    Can dish it out but can’t take it, eh?

    • Replies: @Realist
  5. @J.G.R. Fuerst

    Little Nigerian girls are smarter than you are!

    Nya-nya-nya-nya-nyaaa-nyaaaaa!

    SPPPPPPPPLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLTTTTTTTTTTTT!

    • Replies: @Gene Su
  6. Realist says:
    @obwandiyag

    Can dish it out but can’t take it, eh?

    Your comment is a non sequitur…you are an idiot.

    • Replies: @obwandiyag
  7. An interesting outlier, at minimum 😀

    – We shouldn´t assume standard deviations are the same across populations.
    – I would expect pure Africans to be more phenotypically stable, i.e. the regression should be less marked.
    – I found borderline retarded for the University of the Witwatersrand hard to swallow also, Black Economic Empowerment or not.

    That said …
    IIRC Gerhard Rohlfs described yoof from these quarters as particularly quick on the uptake and eminently useful until age 14, after which “it is best to fire them because you will never be happy with them again”. Burton, Stanley and most of the other old hands made similar observations.
    US blacks also hold up reasonably well until 12-13 (longer and better in Catholic schools, for whichever reason).
    I understand the methodical problem and please do not take this as a weasel maneuver,
    but a test at 25 might be more significant.

    • Replies: @obwandiyag
  8. Chisala, You make some good points.

    I am skeptical about these trends however. It seems to me that scholastic tests have high concentrations of environmental variability in them, and I hesitate to draw conclusions from them.

    I find crime as the best predicator of “Present IQ” as crime is a sort of mass scale, real world Marshmellow test.

    According to the UK government, Africans had three times the arrest rates of Whites, despite both having not very different incomes.

    https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/crime-justice-and-the-law/policing/number-of-arrests/latest

    Blacks had an arrest rate of 35, while Whites had an arrest rate of 12. So Whites do bad when it comes to performance in UK schools, but they seem to commit very little crime overall. It would seem to me that Whites overall have more environmental problems than the more urbanized Black community.

    Well, that’s just my take on this.

    Also, Asians have a 9% higher arrest rate than Whites, and with the Asian catagory mainly including South Asians. Chinese and East Asians, as well as SouthEast Asians are included in the Other including Chinese catagory.

    So it looks like the Alt-Right’s bemoning of South Asian minorities seems to be very overexaggerated lol. So, its not like they come looking good here either.

    • Replies: @Chanda Chisala
  9. Anonymous[207] • Disclaimer says:

    The IQ range seems particularly wide in Britain. Britain produces a lot of Nobel prize winners and intellectuals, but at the same time is also well known in Europe for hooliganism and binge drinking, etc.

    • Replies: @Amerimutt Golems
  10. @J.G.R. Fuerst

    (1) Sub-ethnic data in not available on the national level, for this there is just “Black African”.

    Just to remind you, my “sub-ethnic data” was from here: https://ore.exeter.ac.uk/repository/bitstream/handle/10871/23323/EAL_and_educational_achievement2.pdf?sequence=1

    And it opens with these words:

    The project was commissioned by three charitable groups – the Education Endowment
    Foundation (EEF), Unbound Philanthropy and The Bell Foundation – to analyse the evidence
    from national data in England on the achievement of students …

    – my emphasis.

    And focusing only on “Black Africa” (confounded with many Somali refugees etc) is going for the straw man, don’t you think? Hereditarians have traditionally preferred to “steel man” the opposition.

    (5) You argue that intelligence (the predictor) is irrelevant, and that what matters is the specific criterion (e.g., GCSE, education attainment). However the hereditarian hypothesis is directly about intelligence differences, not the outcomes it predicts.

    I have not argued that intelligence is irrelevant, but the hereditarian hypothesis is precisely an explanation of the *outcomes* we see. Divorcing it from analysis of the outcomes it predicts is divorcing it from reality, and pushing it dangerously close to rationalistic pseudoscience. Thus even if it were true that a certain group scores high on “cognitive tests,” it means nothing if that gives them no practical advantage — predicts no “outcomes” — outside those same tests.

    But you pointed to the reflection in the water of a swan that appeared black.

    We would want to know, first, if that reflection is accurate; second, if so, if there might be some artificial explanation for that.

    It is your job – burden of proof – to show that the black swan we see is just a distorted reflection from the water. Until then, we have to believe our eyes (or else even we can just claim that all the white swans you’ve ever seen were just reflecting the color of their guardian angels!)

    • Replies: @J.G.R. Fuerst
  11. Good for the Nigerians. They can go home now and turn Nigeria into Austria or Switzerland! Perhaps the super duper smart Nigerians can even keep the Chinese from completely colonizing Africa. Nigerian Imperium when?

  12. @Realist

    Doesn’t even know what non sequitur means. Fatuous. Another word it doesn’t know. That refers to it.

  13. RLABruce says:

    It comes down to the eternal question of “nature vs nurture.” If black parents don’t value education and their kids only care about basketball, rap music or other meaningless entertainment, that lowers blacks’ IQ scores. If the home environment demands academic excellence above all else, as in Asian families, that raises IQs. In other words, it is environment, or nurture, that creates high IQs; race (or nature) is almost irrelevant. Which also shows that our methodology in measuring IQ is flawed.

    An experiment was done years ago in which students were arbitrarily divided into three groups. Teachers of the first group were told they had the smartest group, that they could achieve high scores but they were lazy and had to be forced to reach their potential. Teachers of the second group were told they had an average class: some smart, some dumb. Teachers of the third group were told they got all the dumb kids and they shouldn’t expect much from them. All three groups ONLY met their teachers’ expectations whether high, low or average–yet all three groups were the same and had the same ability to achieve.

    In short, it is expectations that determine scholastic achievement.

    • Replies: @John Johnson
  14. @John Arthur

    I find crime as the best predicator of “Present IQ” as crime is a sort of mass scale, real world Marshmellow test.

    According to the UK government, Africans had three times the arrest rates of Whites, despite both having not very different incomes.

    1. Black != African
    2. IQ has much lower (negative) correlation with crime than it does (positively) with educational attainment.

  15. @Chanda Chisala

    “– my emphasis.”

    I am stating a point of fact that data for national groups like “Nigerians” are not fully representative, since keeping this data is optional.

    “Divorcing it from analysis of the outcomes it predicts is divorcing it from reality, and pushing it dangerously close to rationalistic pseudoscience.”

    Yes, intelligence is relevant because in general it is predictive. However, in specific cases, there may be moderators. This is why your argument fails.

    Imagine a scenario in which intelligence differences were relevant explanations for X, Y, Z differences in countries A through D, but not Z in county E. Pointing out E in country Z, would only show that there is no necessary relation between predictor (intelligence scores) and criterion. It would not show:

    1) intelligence differences have no practical implications in general
    or
    2) there are no intelligence differences between groups in the country E specifically

    “It is your job – burden of proof – to show that the black swan we see is just a distorted reflection from the water. ”

    Yet, I am not making a strong claim about falsification. However, worry not, unlike many sympathetic to “race realism” or “HBD,” I am interested in understanding. And so, I inquire.

    And it turns out that one can FOI the more cognitively loaded A-level results by national groups.In fact, we can request A-level math and reading only, if that is what you wish.See for example:

    https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/a_level_results_by_ethnicity_wit#incoming-1092586

    Now, Based the 2015/16 3 A%s, I compute A-level quotients of :

    Ghanese 90.6 (N = 346)
    Nigerian 96.9 (N = 979)
    Somalian 92.5 (N= 1,118)

    For the 2015/16, national level data, if I am reading this correctly, there should be 345 / .05 = 6900 (or so) total Black Africans A-level takers. Assuming 1/4 of all Black Africans (UK born and not) are Nigerians (UK born and not), we would seem to be capturing around 50-60% of Nigerians, which is a lot better than I imagined.

    I suggest that we FOI new data – for about the last 5 years — I would need your help on this, since the FOI people and getting annoyed with me (it seems).

    Anyways, let us prespecify a request – if one asks for too much they reject. And I will analyze it for you; then we can continue discussion on firmer grounds.

    Sorry, but the table you provided is unsatisfactory. And I was unable to find the original underlying data.

    Also, I was offended by you comment about falsification, because it suggested that I was an unconscientious racist, when, in fact, I am very conscientious.

  16. @J.G.R. Fuerst

    Here are the following “extended ethnicity codes” which a portion of local authorities use:

    AFR Black – African

    BNGN Black – Nigerian 200k uk born
    BSOM Black – Somali 100k uk born
    BGHA Black – Ghanaian 100k uk born

    BSLN Black – Sierra Leonean 25k uk born
    BSUD Black – Sudanese 20K UK born
    BANN Black – Angolan 15k uk born
    BCON Black – Congolese 10k UK born
    BAOF Other Black African ?
    https://www.haringey.gov.uk/sites/haringeygovuk/files/ethnicity_codes.pdf

    Only the first 3 groups will yield reliable estimates. And for these we need to aggregate across multiple years. So, the FOIs can be relatively simple.

    My experience is that it takes a couple of months per FOI. So, better if multiple people request.

  17. @J.G.R. Fuerst

    Obviously, I think an A-levelQ of 98 for Nigerians, given the degree of selection, is compatible with a Jensen-Rushton hypothesis, according to which the hereditarian Black African IQ would be around 85 to 90.5 (an extrapolation of the 50-80% hereditary position for the 1Sd difference between European and admixed African Americans; with the larger National IQ differences being a result of active gene x environment correlation, a point which Kirkegaard and I have made for years now).

    After all, I estimated a US Nigerian PSATQ of 98 based on my surname analysis https://humanvarieties.org/2015/10/28/using-surnames-to-assess-ethnic-aptitude/

    If the argument is that that is completely untenable you might as well as just cite my own analysis against me. However, I have shown the math.

  18. @J.G.R. Fuerst

    I am stating a point of fact that data for national groups like “Nigerians” are not fully representative, since keeping this data is optional.

    Not sure if this even applies to the paper I directed you to which reported scores for thousands of Nigerians (from the most populous tribes in UK), but in any case it is obviously irrelevant. All the data we have seen so far (in any year) has them outscoring British whites. Why would you expect the results would change meaningfully if some local towns that did not keep/report records in some year kept them this time?

    Besides,

    1. the relative performance doesn’t change whether we have N in hundreds or in thousands (from the different reports).
    2. it is the same nationalities/subgroups outperforming the British whites every year in those different reports.
    3. English speaking exposure always makes a difference.
    Etc.

    Representativeness at this point is a red herring.

    And it turns out that one can FOI the more cognitively loaded A-level results by national groups.In fact, we can request A-level math and reading only, if that is what you wish.See for example:

    I’m fine with checking the A-levels too, but I want to first exhaust the GCSEs since these things can become endless. And no, I’m not unfamiliar with A-levels. What I usually find is most people who bring such things up are usually unfamiliar with a lot of background information that would deflate the results they are excited about (not talking about you, yet). I believe there was someone called Edward or something in the comments who kept bringing up university/A-level performance, but I am quite sure that he (and you) does not know (for example) that British whites have the lowest rate of going for university/A-levels even when they can (a truly worrisome trend), whereas Africans and other minorities have many more people going for A-levels even when they had lower GCSE scores. That should obviously affect the relative results against them there, relative to whites.

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/nov/11/white-boys-from-poor-areas-least-likely-to-take-as-or-a-levels-says-study

    Even the low achieving black Caribbeans send more upstream, relatively!From the article:

    “We were particularly surprised to find that ethnic minority groups which have relatively low school attainment, such as those of black Caribbean, Pakistani or Bangladeshi ethnic origin, are, on average, more likely to continue into higher education than white British pupils.”

    My point is that there are other issues that will arise even if we move on to A-levels, which is why I want to exhaust the GCSE issue. If you do have research showing GCSEs have low correlation with IQ, please share them. I will be *very* surprised if this is true even when you just take math and/or English. If it is not true for those two taken separately, then it is another red herring.

    Also, I was offended by you comment about falsification, because it suggested that I was an unconscientious racist, when, in fact, I am very conscientious.

    I have no idea what you are talking about here. I had no one in particular in mind when writing the article (is that what you mean?) And I do believe you are one of the few with enough mathematical intuition to harbor some doubts against some of the more absurd quantitative claims proposed as valid objections by others.

  19. Dale says:

    Wonderful article, and I’m impressed with your arguments. I’ve been agnostic about HBD (culture matters, as the inestimable Thomas Sowell says) and this article has helped me decide it’s rubbish!

    Thank you.

    • LOL: eah, nokangaroos
    • Troll: Pheasant
    • Replies: @Mr. XYZ
  20. Anonymous[239] • Disclaimer says:

    Perhaps beacause many of the people who migrate are the cream of the crop where they come from. And the natives represent a mean average.

    • Agree: Alfred
  21. Mr. XYZ says:

    Chanda, what do you think about the idea of conducting IQ tests on African blacks before and after they immigrate to the UK as well as for their descendants? It would be interesting to see how their IQs would change over time.

    As a side note, maybe Britain should open its doors wide open to black African immigrants. Seriously. After all, if blacks there perform so much better than they do in countries such as the US and you’re saying that this is not due to selection, why not give much more blacks the opportunity to perform well in Britain? For that matter, how about we encourage black Americans who want to perform better to move to Britain and test the IQs of them and their descendants?

  22. Mr. XYZ says:
    @Dale

    What would be really interesting is if US blacks and their descendants would get an IQ boost if/after they will move to Britain.

  23. This assumes that the environment in Africa is bad, and that in the UK good. Talk about untenable…

    Does this look healthy?


    [MORE]

    Compared to this?

    Who’s got the sunshine?

    Lagos:


    https://weather-and-climate.com/average-monthly-hours-Sunshine,lagos-ng,Nigeria

    London:


    https://weather-and-climate.com/average-monthly-hours-Sunshine,London,United-Kingdom

    Nigerians should be doing better in Nigeria than in the Smoke.

    • Agree: Jim bob Lassiter
    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
  24. @Chanda Chisala

    re: “I have no idea what you are talking about here. I had no one in particular in mind when writing the article (is that what you mean?)”

    I was joking — I was chuckling when I wrote it — that I was offended by the implication that I am a “unconscientious racist” for not being persuaded because I feel that I am a very conscientious one.

    re: “I believe there was someone called Edward or something in the comments who kept bringing up university/A-level performance, but I am quite sure that he (and you) does not know (for example) that British whites have the lowest rate of going for university/A”

    This is true. The same can be said for US college admissions tests and almost all selection tests. However, in general these proportions tend to have minor effects. Note, what it relevant is not the proportions but mean ‘true’ cognitive ability which we infer from these. Since we don’t know which Whites are applying, this is an educated guess at best.

    However, one can also compare A-levels by African nationality. or relative to the Black African mean, to get a sense of how much better specific ethnic / national groups do. After all, your argument is that broad categories like “Black African” mask large inter-ethnic variance. I would think those would show up on A-levels too.

    re: “Not sure if this even applies to the paper I directed you to which reported scores for thousands of Nigerians (from the most populous tribes in UK)”

    In your article you posted a graph from this paper:
    https://www.ippr.org/publications/back-to-basics-towards-a-successful-and-cost-effective-integration-policy

    In that paper, I read:

    “However, central government does not collect data on the educational outcomes of specific migrant groups. In England, however, schools and local government have the option of using ‘extended ethnicity codes’ to collect data on educational achievement. Here broad ethnicity categories using in the census can be refined using extended categories.38 These extended codes can be used as a proxy for migrant groups (although many of the children concerned will have been born in the UK). Table 6.1 (over) presents new analysis for England showing educational performance at 16 (in GCSE examinations) by extended ethnicity code.

    While the table highlights differential educational achievement, it should be noted, that not all local authorities in England collect data using extended ethnicity codes; there are some local authorities with diverse populations that do not do so. Additionally, new guidance on school achievement data requires that local authorities submit data to the Department for Education using only four ethnicity categories – White, Black, Asian and Other, thus aggregating diverse groups and masking underachievement in some cases.”

    So, I am pointing out the cautionary note that the very research you cite (in your article) adds. It may not be very relevant, but I don’t think it is unreasonable – or misleading — to point this concern out.

    However, in your replies, you directed me to this Strand paper:
    https://ore.exeter.ac.uk/repository/bitstream/handle/10871/23323/EAL_and_educational_achievement2.pdf?sequence=1

    But I have previously discussed those results in the comment section of the article which you originally pointed them out. I had imagined that the point of this *new* article was to present new evidence, not evidence which we previously discussed.

    “If you do have research showing GCSEs have low correlation with IQ, please share them. I will be *very* surprised if this is true even when you just take math and/or English”

    The predictivity data I have on hand is for GCSE pass rates / point scores including English and Math, not for English and Math GCSE pass rates / point scores only. Note, in the UK, actual scores are not provided. Rather students are given a threshold-based grade (X to A*). To create a more continuous measure, these grades can be assigned a numeric value (point score). Consider what the
    Strand papers you cite says:

    “As above, the best measures for analysing differences in educational attainment are the more differentiated, continuous measures of attainment expressed as points scores. GCSE grades are expressed as points scores on the following scale: U/X= 0, G= 16, F= 22, E= 28, D= 34, C= 40, B= 46, A= 52, A*= 58. In the analysis we use the following outcomes:
     Best 8 points score (as an overall summary)  GCSE English, Mathematics and Modern Foreign Language (MFL) scores. The Best 8 points score is an overall summary of achievement, indicating the sum of the eight best results of all KS4 exams taken by a student8. As an example of this metric the national average score (347.0) represents roughly 4Cs and 4Bs (4*40 + 4*46 = 344), while eight Cs (8*40) would equate to 320 points and eight Bs (8*46) to 368 points. As a rough rule of thumb, we would consider a gap of 16 points (one-third of grade in all eight subjects) as a reasonable threshold for note.”

    This method adds noise to the scores, which is, in part, why they tend to have mediocre correlations with IQ. But I will look to see if I can find correlations for math and reading points scores independently or averaged.

    In the meantime, let of collaborate to FOI KS4 math and reading GCSE scores and A-level GCSE scores for Nigerians, Ghanaians, Somalians and Caribbean for the past 5 years. We can then set this discussion on a firmer basis.

    As you know, I don’t like the meandering, bullshit debates. And I would like to empirically resolve this issue, one way or another.

    Moreover, I am pleased that you provide cogent arguments and take the issue seriously.

    My criticism is about (1) the quality of evidence you are providing and also (2) some of your more rhetorical claims.

    (For example, you know very well that academic hereditarians (e.g., Dutton, Lynn, Rushton & Jensen, Kirkegaard and myself) consistently argued / implied that a larger portion of the “national IQ” differences — usually at least 50% — are non-hereditary.)

  25. @Realist

    Without consulting black/white test score it would appear that blacks have a distinct intelligence advantage over whites in the UK in light of the fact that blacks have convinced UK whites that diversity is their strength. Blacks have prevailed upon the inferior whites of the UK to allow themselves to be displaced by blacks, thus turning a once proud, industrious nation into a shithole.

    Therein lies the enigma. Intelligent Nigerians and others are turning an advanced orderly nation that was built by inferior locals into a corrupt, lawless and violent hellhole plus are bringing back medieval tier superstitions.

    Ethnic Nepotism, Incompetence and Parasitism at Britain’s National Health Service
    https://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2015/08/30/ethnic-nepotism-incompetence-and-parasitism-at-britains-national-health-service/

    Peckham Boys
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peckham_Boys

    ‘Deport this wicked Nigerian witch-hunter as a danger to children’
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/deport-this-wicked-nigerian-witch-hunter-as-a-danger-to-children-9282036.html

    • Replies: @Anon
  26. @Anonymous

    The IQ range seems particularly wide in Britain. Britain produces a lot of Nobel prize winners and intellectuals, but at the same time is also well known in Europe for hooliganism and binge drinking, etc.

    Those Nobels are more a function of an Oxbridge education.

    Their underclass has actually produced minds like Michael Faraday who barely went to school plus John Harrison a self-taught clockmaker and inventor of the marine chronometer.

    Doing badly at school is probably because of despondency at seeing their country turn into a third world slum through ‘diversity’. This is in tandem with Marxist-infiltrated schools that spew out anti-white venom (see the Laura Towler video below).

    Living in a post-Christianity society (see the Peter Hitchens book The Rage Against God) with no moral anchor is another problem.

    Living alongside Third Worlders has also been a huge disaster for the British underclass. Some have copied black culture (David Starkey video below). Controversies aside, at least the U.S. avoided this dilemma for a season with the Jim Crow system.

  27. @albionrevisited

    The here alluded to was called “Biafra” 😀

  28. Anon[930] • Disclaimer says:
    @Amerimutt Golems

    Perhaps if they bring back medieval superstitions they can also bring back the medieval spirit that built the tallest building in the world in England in 1311, built the great English universities, and devised the Magna Carta.

    • Replies: @Richard B
  29. @J.G.R. Fuerst

    That´s how a dialogue should run, now the ultimate proof of quality is to bring the theoretical question of are the data meaningful as being built upon, are they justly interpreted, as a second, to a conclusive end. It seems to an outsider that the issue is a question of garbage in, then garbage out. And the data built upon seem to be corrupted willingly by the authorities? Again just an outsider, give us more, very interesting exchange for once.

    Thanks for the effort. Instead of the general interest of the site in confusing thus numbing intentionally the audience, shedding light for once.

    • Agree: El Dato
  30. El Dato says:

    I hope to see more on this. Very interesting.

  31. Some Guy says:

    Chanda, this doesn’t seem to contradict standard HBD assumptions because of:

    Selective migration: If Nigeria has an average IQ of 70, and Nigerians migrants to the UK have an IQ of 100, which seems like a plausible level of selection, and additive heritability is 0.6, then their children should regress 12 points. If the improved environment is enough to counteract a loss of 12 points, that means Nigerias genotypic IQ is 12 points higher than it currently is, or 70+12=82.*

    Selection for conscientiousness: Migrants are selected on both conscientiousness and IQ. GSCEs load on both, while IQ tests only load on IQ.

    *Children of Elite blacks in the US don’t get the same environmental boost since they’re not growing up in a different country than their parents.

    • Replies: @Chanda Chisala
  32. trelane says:

    Nigerian immigrants to the UK may very well be smarter than the average Englishman, which is a low bar since Scallies and Chavs and other products of dysgenic assortative breeding predominant among the lower classes of England, a former empire that has long since declined and fallen to its oblivion.

    But are Nigerian immigrants smarter than the average Jew or Han East Asian? They are not. Not even close. There are no Nigerians among the graduating class of Yale’s graduate math department. None. Not even one. They are all Han East Asian with a very few Jews or WASPS.

    The hereditarian view of intelligence is quite safe in place. Smart people are the brightest of the siblings born to the highest intelligence parents. As has it always been.

    • Replies: @Truth
  33. @J.G.R. Fuerst

    This is true. The same can be said for US college admissions tests and almost all selection tests

    No, the same cannot be said for US college admissions if “the same” is the fact that whites are avoiding college at higher rates than blacks and others. This observation was surprising to everyone. It makes a big difference IF the minority groups are encouraging their lowest performers to go for A-levels.

    However, in general these proportions tend to have minor effects.

    It’s an empirical question. Since everyone was surprised at how much this trend exists, I would like to know if it indeed is nothing, as you suggest.

    Note, what it relevant is not the proportions but mean ‘true’ cognitive ability which we infer from these.

    Correct. But if there is abnormally high participation of the lowest performers in the minority groups, then the cognitive ability will be underestimated.

    Since we don’t know which Whites are applying, this is an educated guess at best.

    Well, if hereditarian theory has any merit, then we do know which whites are applying. It is the smarter whites. If this is not true, then the strong correlation between educational attainment and intelligence is false, at least here. Besides, the report says the biggest problem is among the poor whites, which hereditarian theory expects to be the lowest inherited IQs.

    This method adds noise to the scores, which is, in part, why they tend to have mediocre correlations with IQ. But I will look to see if I can find correlations for math and reading points scores independently or averaged.

    You yourself have previously blogged about research showing that the cognitive assessment tests (real intelligence tests) taken at 11 have a very high correlation with the GCSEs. So now you are saying you have also found research saying GCSEs have low correlation with IQ (now that it is more clear that black Africans outperform whites)?

    Look. If cognitive tests at 11 predict performance on GCSEs at 16, and hereditarian theory says IQ scores even at very young ages predict Educational Attainment and other outcomes in adulthood, it is self-contradicting to claim that GCSEs have low correlation with IQ. Either the papers you have now found are methodologically flawed (which means the “noise” objection to the GCSE data is another red herring) or the cognitive tests at 11 are fake (which makes IQ testing unreliable). You can’t have your cake and eat it.

    As you know, I don’t like the meandering, bullshit debates. And I would like to empirically resolve this issue, one way or another.

    I don’t like the endless debates either, but you do tend to be more eager to find more and more data when the main problem is the lack of serious analysis of the data we already have, especially when it appears to contradict the hypothesis under question.

    You have also made other statements in your posts above that are claiming that the race hypothesis – and academic hereditarians – has always been in consistency with this kind of data (including Nigerian performance in the US), but that is obviously not true. For example you now sound like you’re saying Black African (genotypic) IQ could even be 90.5 (!!) and that that’s consistent with Jensen and Rushton?:

    Obviously, I think an A-levelQ of 98 for Nigerians, given the degree of selection, is compatible with a Jensen-Rushton hypothesis, according to which the hereditarian Black African IQ would be around 85 to 90.5

    You can’t just do that. If you really believe this, you have to first acknowledge that it contradicts the explicit claims of Philippe Rushton, Richard Lynn, Arthur Jensen, etc. You can’t just change numbers while continuing to claim consistency since this affects the plausibility of the underlying (evolutionary) theories.

    Do you also believe that Davide Piffer’s “findings” – claiming high molecular prediction of Lynn’s national IQ estimates — that you all touted so triumphantly are wrong, or maybe you don’t see that you are in contradiction with that too? Have your cake. Or eat it already.

    [OK, taking a break now].

  34. @Chanda Chisala

    In all too many cases of a decision to enroll in college and select a major in America, the bias towards enrollment/selection of a major is all too often driven by stupidity and/or some perverse incentive to do something that would otherwise be irrational.

  35. Surely regression towards the general mean implies a higher IQ sub-group does not have a long history of above average intelligence or that they start interbreeding with another sub-group. Do Europeans regress to the human mean or the European mean? Do Ashkenazi Jews regress towards the European mean or the Ashkenazi mean?

    Do race horses regress in speed towards the horse mean or the race horse mean? You have to identify a long time exclusive breeding group before it makes any sense to refer to regression towards the group mean. That seems very demanding to me.

    I distrust IQ measurements. I notice that few non-Yanks even have the capacity to learn US football game plays. Of course, that may have something to do with interest or experience. Australian Aborigines often refer to trying at school as “turning white”. Would they try at an intelligence test or would they passively resist? I would trust an IQ test applied to a university graduate in a STEM field and probably to one starting the degree but I would be less confident. Of course, they would have to be native speakers of the test language and I’d have to be confident that I understood their attitude towards intelligence tests. There are probably other things that would shake my confidence but how would I know them? If I worked in the field, I might or I might not.

    If an exclusive breeding group allows out-breeding if a particular characteristic is met eg speed or intelligence, the relevant group mean becomes more difficult to calculate. If poor performers are eliminated, the trend is obvious but what does the short term mean actually mean?
    [email protected]

    • Replies: @Shelb
  36. Shelb says:
    @Donald A Thomson

    Right! Regression to the (sub-group) mean!

  37. gotmituns says:

    Does this mean there’ll be a Nigerian space rocket fired soon to the moon?

    • Replies: @Truth
    , @Pheasant
  38. The most logical explanation for any data that claims blacks score higher on IQ tests than whites is that the purveyors of the data are liars.

  39. Baxter says:

    The United Kingdom is rapidly turning into a multi-ethnic, multi-faith, multi-cultural toilet. You take away the economy and your not left with much. In the long term it doesn’t really matter how well one particular group is doing when the entire country is in decline.
    I’ve read a few books written by a retired British psychiatrist.
    His pen name is Theodore Dalrymple. According to this guy modern Britain is a horror show. As a doctor he became intimately familiar with the British underclass. From what I gather a solid quarter of the population can be classified as feral. It’s rather sad to see a society mutilate itself beyond recognition.
    America is probably worse, so no offense to the author.

  40. Truth says:
    @trelane

    Nigerian immigrants to the UK may very well be smarter than the average Englishman, which is a low bar since Scallies and Chavs and other products of dysgenic assortative breeding predominant among the lower classes of England, a former empire that has long since declined and fallen to its oblivion.

    But are Nigerian immigrants smarter than the average Jew or Han East Asian?

    You realize you are kind of making this gentleman’s point, right?

    • Replies: @trelane
  41. Truth says:
    @gotmituns

    Well, let’s let the Americans, or the Russkies get one up there first.

  42. I have a pretty simple-minded uneducated knowledge of this sort of debate, but I keep hearing that the two sides (only two?) of the issue seem consistently to be nature vs. nurture, or environment vs. heredity, and so forth. But maybe there are other variables which oscillate over time.

    Has anyone ever done a serious study on say, historical trajectory with respect to IQ? Nations and races have golden ages and declines all the time. In the early Middle Ages, Arabs did all the math and science, and they thought the Franks were morons. A few centuries later, France was the pinnacle of civilization, and the Arabs were lazy and backwards imbeciles.

    The white British of today are a conquered, defeated, humiliated people. They are a people whose collective and individual dignity has been successfully destroyed. Their territory has been successfully invaded, their women, and their children (!) are routinely raped and pimped by the invaders, their universities, courts, and institutions have been taken over by foreigners, they are ritually and publicly insulted and humiliated at every turn by the gatekeepers of their own culture, their religion is degraded and despised, even by its own prelates. And they do nothing about all this. Their racial and cultural confidence and self-respect is zero. Jews who hate them tell them what to think, about everything, and they obey. In terms of historical trajectory, white Britons are in complete free-fall.

    It would not surprise me at all if this took a heavy toll on metrics like IQ. If a weak and rotten culture causes a poor diet which causes mass diabetes, why shouldn’t it cause other problems too? The brain after all is a physical organ.

  43. TKK says:

    Great counter punch and rebuttal, Chanda.

    However, Africans from English-speaking countries still out-performed whites—which should indicate, by the hereditarians’ own theory, that this black African advantage is really on general intelligence (g) itself.

    Perhaps this is too simplistic, but it all comes down to nurture advantages.

    African born parents are far stricter and place emphasis on academic achievement. Time spent being made to do your lessons, day after day, instead of running wild with mates and texting would have real world outcomes. You are careful to emphasis African born- not UK born people of African descent, the latter being thoroughly Westernized.

    If we take 2 children, white and black, and allow one to languish in mediocrity and immediate gratification, add in any seedy culture ( gang, rap, death metal, addicted parents) , and place the other child in a highly structured, rigorous studious environment- the child with parents who mean business about grades and provide guidance and proper care will always prevail.

    From the moment of birth, children in content rich environments with educated parents outperform their peers from broken homes who come home to an educational desert.

    Science and lengthy debate is not needed where common sense provides the answers.

  44. anonymous[191] • Disclaimer says:

    As a race, blacks are monumental failures at everything that requires something other than athletics or music. If blacks in Britain are outperforming whites in schools why is it that blacks are so unsuccessful at life in Britain and every rich country they inhabit? The few outliers that might have a high IQ are so few and far between that, they might as well not exist. Statistics can be manipulated to show anything you want them to show but black failure is everywhere before our eyes. No graphs are going to dispute this fact.

    • Agree: Sick of Orcs, CDebussey
  45. Great article, it certainly offers nuance to the debate. However, there are a few issues. The first is that there actually isn’t really such a thing as regression to the mean. So if an intelligent subset of people are moving from Nigeria to Britain their kids will mostly be like the parents.

    Secondarily, the actual scores. For young Brits, Asians(especially the Chinese) lead the pack in reading and writing. Blacks and whites are doing about the same. This sort of supports “traditional HBD” dogma with E. Asians being the brainiest.

    https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/education-skills-and-training/5-to-7-years-old/mathematics-attainments-for-children-aged-5-to-7-key-stage-1/latest

    https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/education-skills-and-training/5-to-7-years-old/reading-attainments-for-children-aged-5-to-7-key-stage-1/latest

    GCSE scores show a different trend. With Asian(especially the Chinese in the lead), mixed Asian-whites very high, whites, and then blacks lagging behind. These aren’t just pass rates, but average scores as well. This mostly supports what the HBD people say. East Asians in the lead, whites in the middle, blacks on the lower end and that as people age the gaps begin to widen. However, the the white-black achievement gap isn’t that huge. On the Attainment 8 the white lead over blacks is only 1.1 pts. The issue with these scores I have is the inclusion of Roma people as white. The Roma are originally from India. Why there score so far below Indian Brits is beyond me, but, there scores are still unbelievably low. Their population is fairly small, but I’m curious how the average white score would do without them. There are also the super low scores of the gypsy travelers who are white as well. If “strongly variable environmental pressures” matter then I would be curious how removing that group would impact the scores.

    https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/education-skills-and-training/11-to-16-years-old/a-to-c-in-english-and-maths-gcse-attainment-for-children-aged-14-to-16-key-stage-4/latest

    https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/education-skills-and-training/11-to-16-years-old/gcse-results-attainment-8-for-children-aged-14-to-16-key-stage-4/latest

    Anyway, it was a good article, I’m not sure if we should dump 100+ years of intelligence research, but it at least shows that there is some hope in bridging achievement gaps. Maybe someday we can all score like the Chinese!

  46. Pheasant says:
    @gotmituns

    Already has been.

    Weather satelite.

    Built By Whites.

  47. neutral says:

    It is well known that UK is a hard left government and society. They essentially worship blacks as god like beings, there is absolutely no limit to their fawning and willingness to overlook the realities of black dysfunction. What this means is that any survey involving blacks can be dismissed outright, they are so desperate to prove their racial equality rubbish that they bake in their findings before they even have started.

    There is absolutely no example of black success anywhere and anytime. Using enormous amounts of white money and time to prop up their supposed counterexample is not valid. Like it was already mentioned here by somebody else, blacks will never be able to launch space rocks, design smart phones or run good governments ever, there is zero evidence that shows this otherwise.

  48. Assuming that the GCSE correlates with IQ, then obviously there is something wrong with British testing, because by your own admission IQ results in Africa are not only far lower than the IQ results in Britain, but they also correlate well with results for black populations in most other parts of the world. Until and unless that blatant dichotomy is first explained, no viable conclusions of any kind can be drawn from the British GCSE. Whatever the underlying reasons, the results obviously constitute an exception.

  49. LondonBob says:

    PISA and university entrance shows quite the opposite.

    “Another dimension of ethnicity that has caught policy attention in England is the educational challenges faced by pupils from White working class backgrounds 
    .  
    Evidence from PISA suggests, however, that the key issue surrounding the performance of White working class pupils is their underperformance relative to White pupils from more advantaged socio-economic backgrounds, and not their low performance relative to other ethnic groups.  
     
    Specifically, there is no evidence that White working class pupils achieve lower PISA scores than working class pupils who are not of White ethnicity. In fact, the average science score across these two groups is quite similar (465 versus 477) and are statistically indistinguishable. Yet there is a more notable difference when it comes to pupils from advantaged socio-economic backgrounds. In particular, White pupils from the top ESCS quartile  achieve a science score around 40 points higher than high socio-economic status pupils who are not of White ethnicity. Finally, socio-economic inequality in PISA scores seems to be particularly pronounced for young people who are White. For instance, the gap between the top and bottom ESCS quartiles for White pupils is approximately 90 points (three years of schooling), which compares to a gap of 50 points for pupils not of White ethnic origin.  
     
    These are the results presented in Figure 46.  Although this graph refers specifically to science, similar conclusions hold for reading and mathematics (see the online data tables for further details).   
     
    Key point 
     
    On average, young people of White ethnicity achieve significantly higher scores than young people of Black and Asian ethnicity. There is no evidence that White working class pupils achieve lower PISA scores than working class pupils who  are not of White ethnicity. Rather, their underachievement is more notable when compared to White pupils from more advantaged socio-economic backgrounds.”

  50. FvS says:

    All Nigerian diaspora should move back home and help their country. Nigeria needs them badly. For some reason, the super intelligence of the Nigerian people isn’t translating into real world results.

    • Replies: @nokangaroos
  51. LondonBob says:

    It is worth remembering that we have a very high level of private schooling in Britain, over seven percent with the levels for GCSE students likely higher as the proportion increases as the age group does. Private schooling is overwhelmingly white with the more talented students often given scholarships, so very much the cream of the crop.

    The data includes mainstream state-funded schools in England, including city technology colleges and academies. It doesn’t include hospital schools, pupil referral units and alternative provision.

    It is also important to note that IQ is more stratified in Britain than the rest of the world, the smart are very smart and there is somewhat of an underclass. If that elite group aren’t captured at all , whereas the lower sort are, that will seriously skew results.

  52. @Chanda Chisala

    “No, the same cannot be said for US college admissions if “the same” is the fact that whites are avoiding college at higher rates than blacks and others. This observation was surprising to everyone. It makes a big difference IF the minority groups are encouraging their lowest performers to go for A-levels.”

    I mean the problem of potential selection bias is the same. But In agree… However, as for A-levels, they are taken for higher apprenticeships and direct employment, in addition to going to college. So, college entry rate is not necessarily a good index of % taking A-levels. Most Americans don’t know that the UK, like other EU countries, has an extensive apprenticeship and mentorship system. It’s not like the US, where a BA is necessary. However, to get a well-paying job, A-levels pretty much are.

    When I get a chance, I will calculate the rates of A-level takers. This itself is not easy since matching ethnic data is only available for the 80% or so of students in public schools. This might bias scores too. It would depend if there are ethnic differences in attending private / independent schools, at least ones favoring non-Whites.

    “It’s an empirical question. Since everyone was surprised at how much this trend exists, I would like to know if it indeed is nothing, as you suggest.”

    Agreed.

    “Well, if hereditarian theory has any merit, then we do know which whites are applying. It is the smarter whites”

    I meant the proportion taking A-levels. This is greater than the proportion going on to college. I agree that the smarter Whites are going onto college. Though note, you have to look at entry rates of UK public highschool students, not ethnic % in college, since UK has small ethnic groups and takes in quite a few overseas applicants.

    “You yourself have previously blogged about research showing that the cognitive assessment tests (real intelligence tests) taken at 11 have a very high correlation with the GCSEs.”

    That makes sense. But also it depends on what measure you use. For example, some research extracts a g-factor of achievement, which is going to be more reliable. But I will check again. The research I was thinking of, recently, involves college section samples. However, this may be due to idiosyncratic factors.

    ” So now you are saying you have also found research saying GCSEs have low correlation with IQ (now that it is more clear that black Africans outperform whites)?”

    I didn’t say “low correlation” I said “mediocre correlation”. I mean relative to typical r(IQ-ACH).

    I had a 2012 post “Is (global) “race realism” still tenable?” in which I noted a Black African – British Whites differences of .1 in favor of Whites based on 2006 data. I noted:

    “The difference of interest is the age 16 Black-African White gap, which is about 0.10 SD or virtually nonexistent…In the mean time, I will be happy to hear HBDish explanations for the above which take into consideration points 1-4. (If you comment please specify the magnitude of the genetic Black African-White European racial gap that you think is tenable.”

    I don’t see that much has changed. As for theory, I lowered the maximum possible estimate for hereditarian differences. And then began investigating a more complicated genetic model, based on an old discussion I found, which I cite in a paper:

    McDougall (1920), “The principle is that, though differences of racial mental qualities are relatively small, so small as to be indistinguishable with certainty in individuals, they are yet of great importance for the life of nations, because they exert throughout many generations a constant bias upon the development of their culture and their institutions.”

    I introduced this in a 2012 post called “A little bit of difference goes a long way”.

    As for the UK, generally, there are two issues:

    1) GCSE as a measure of intelligence
    2) Scores of various ethnic subgroups, like Nigerians, which might make any selection model difficult.

    I am questioning both to a degree, without changing what I have already agreed upon. I question (1) for a number of reasons. Recall, I pointed to CAT3 data, indicating an 8 point FSIQ gap. As you said: “And that was when they thought the British children were scoring only an equivalent of 8 IQ points above the black African kids”. But at this very same time, the GCSE gap was small! So that led me to question GCSE — back in 2012 — and suggest perhaps a .5 IQ SD gap, but no more.

    Since the Black African – White UK non-A level GCSE gap, hasn’t changed much in the past decade (varying slightly year to year), and since the IQ data I since found is equivocal and still consistent with a 0-0.5 SD gap.I have had no reason to yet alter this position…until you pointed to possible subgroup differences, which is what were mostly discussing.

    Notice, this actual history of events is quite notably different from the picture you paint.

    I will note that my 2012 series – now looking them over — was pretty good. Honestly, I should have taken a job arguing for the other side! Such is fate.

    “I don’t like the endless debates either, but you do tend to be more eager to find more and more data when the main problem is the lack of serious analysis of the data we already have, especially when it appears to contradict the hypothesis under question.”

    I have discussed the lack of a non-A-level GCSE gap in my 2012 series. I haven’t changed my mind on this. How could I? However, I have encountered peculiarities which have led me to question the reliability of GCSE ethnic differences as indexes of IQ ethnic differences in this particular case.
    Thus, I have sought more IQ data. However, so far I have only been able to find large amounts for adults. This data, though, has raised more curiosities. For example, if the Black African -White age 16 (KS4) gap was ~ 0 in 2006, why do I see large Black African -White mid 20s gaps in 2016? Possibly this is just do to bias owing to Blacks overapply for teaching, government, professional, and many other jobs. Perhaps. However, the situation is odd.

    Now, the point about Black African subgroups is interesting. That is something I did not consider in 2012. However, the data you presented has been inadequate, by my standard. So, I suggested that we FOI scores.

    “You have also made other statements in your posts above that are claiming that the race hypothesis – and academic hereditarians – has always been in consistency with this kind of data (including Nigerian performance in the US), but that is obviously not true. For example you now sound like you’re saying Black African (genotypic) IQ could even be 90.5 (!!) and that that’s consistent with Jensen and Rushton?”

    I said that academic hereditarians from Galton to Jensen typically proposed or implied European European – African African differences ranging for about 10 to 20 points. This is correct.
    Rushton and Jensen (2005), in particular, proposed a 50-80% hereditarian model for the one standard deviation Black-White American gap. Elsewhere, Jensen proposed a 50-75% model. The lower end, endorsed by intelligence researchers in a recently published survey, would give a genotypic IQ of 92.5 for Legacy African Americans, who are 20% European in ancestry. Now, what would that imply regarding the source Black African population’s (genotypic) IQ?

    So, we recently found, for example, that 60% or so of the Black-White American gap could be explained by genetic ancestry? Am I wrong to say that this is consistent with RJ’s (2005) proposal? This 9 point or so difference would suggest an 11.25 one between White Americans and representative sample of the source population, no? Now, I estimated that Nigerian American adolescents had an PSATQ of 98, this would necessitate a selection of 9.5 points (given what was said just above and also putting aside the hypotheses – e.g., slave selection , dysgenic fertility — which you deem to be outlandish. What about their parents? Well, the portion “inherited” or “passed on” would be the shared environmental + heredity components of IQ, which is usually estimated at around 70%. (GC gest a lower estimate since he discounts shared environment, as if human were livestock! ) So, 9.5/.7 = 13.21 points. So about 1 Sd of 15 points or the 15the percentile ? Is that so unreasonable? What percentile would you propose?

    Look, fund a project and we can see by comparing the measured IQ of West Africans (in Africa) who are not emigrating to West Africans (in Africa) who are in the process of emigrating. It looks plausible on paper. But who knows.

    “If you really believe this, you have to first acknowledge that it contradicts the explicit claims of Philippe Rushton, Richard Lynn, Arthur Jensen, etc.”

    See above. But maybe we are interpreting papers and passages differently. Which do you have in mind?

    “Do you also believe that Davide Piffer’s “findings” – claiming high molecular prediction of Lynn’s national IQ estimates — that you all touted so triumphantly are wrong, or maybe you don’t see that you are in contradiction with that too?”

    The results are consistent with what I have just said. I don’t see why you would think otherwise.
    The idea, following McDougall (1920) and a paper by Robert Gordan, is that national IQ differences reflect actually hereditary differences plus population-level effects of these, which represent a form of active gene x environment correlation. This is why there can be a high correlation between genes and national IQ, but also much smaller actual hereditary (addictive genetic) differences than National IQ ones. Kirkegaard and I made this point in our Admixture in Americans series, published in MQ:

    “To note, we are not positing that variance in genomic ancestry (race) directly causes variance in cognitive ability and, by way of this, in socioeconomic outcomes. Rather, according to the model, ancestry covaries with causal factors (e.g., genes and/or cultural practices), which lead to differences in cognitive ability and other traits…Indeed, we think that it is implausible that the cognitive differences being discussed–see appendix A–solely represent average general intelligence. For example, given the performance of first and second generation Surinamese in the Netherlands (e.g., Lynn, 2008), individuals who were not particularly migrant selected, it is highly unlikely that Surinamese in Suriname have an average general cognitive ability score of 74 (on the standard IQ metric). Our default model would be that there are average individual-level general cognitive ability differences between nations and regions. These induce socioeconomic differences, such as differences in the quality of schooling, which in turn lead to expanded cognitive differences, broadly conceived. These latter differences are then indexed by our measures of national and subnational ability.”

    Incidentally, this is the basis for my proposed solution to the problem of global inequality. As I see it, if developing countries had a smart elite, that elite could greatly reduce socioeconomic and national IQ differences, by improving the social infrastructure. So, instead of importing hordes from the developing world, we should be exporting a smart fraction — of
    progressives and liberal who are ideologically dedicated to equity, of course — to consult, or whatever, in those regions. As I see it, that would solve multiple problems at once. Naturally, the people at Open Borders, and other such blogs, didn’t appreciate the idea.

    My point, though, is that I have been arguing for one variant or another of this model of National IQ since 2012. I don’t raise it as an ad hoc explanation.

  53. Tom67 says:
    @Chanda Chisala

    The point of the debate seems to be to argue whether Blacks aren´t or are as intelligent as whites. School attaiment in UK is used as a proxy. But what if the whole debate is pointless in the first place? i can´t help thinking that after perusing the stats in the various studies cited by Chisala and Fuerst. Time and time again I find an incredible difference between the scores of students of East Indian muslim heritage and those of non Muslim East Indians. Anybody who has studied the history of the Indian subcontinent knows that there is no hereditary difference between Muslims and Non Muslims on the continent. In fact the similarities in everything but religion are overwhelming. So religion seems to be the deciding factor.
    Anyhow the difference in achievement rates between US -American-African and other Africans is old news. Why? Just go to the Flatbush area in Brooklyn which is carribian and then to the South Bronx which is African-American. The contrast is so stark that you might think you are in different countries:
    crime rates, cleanliness, drug use. violence a.s.o. Same for schools. No sane person of white colour would think to send his child to a school in the South Bronx. https://www.zillow.com/south-bronx-new-york-ny/schools/
    In contract the Flatbush area: https://www.zillow.com/flatbush-new-york-ny/schools/
    No wonder Haitians look down on African-Americans.

  54. Mike-SMO says:

    There seem to be several factors involved in “subject selection” of Africans in the UK and in the Western Hemisphere.

    “Africa” and even “Nigeria” are meaningless. “Yorubaland” might be better although even the clustering of “Ibgo” make that questionable. Local tribal groupings may allow for “interesting” sub-populations that might be equivalent to “classes” in other societies. If a sub-group is relatively large but “inbred” and “successful” there might be an unusual ability observed in the UK educational system. The origins of the various tribes/ethnicities are mostly contained in myths.

    If an unusually high intellectual and socially successful type developes and is relatively stable and isolated over generations, the “regression to the mean” would be different than that observed in the general/average population. In other words, the migrants might be a very unusual sub-group of “Africans”.

    There is likely to have been a very different population selection in the Western Hemisphere during the period of the Atlantic slave trade . Some of the slave population were “kidnap” victims and thus might be representitive of the targeted population. Others had already “lost their freedon” due to debt, bad luck or criminal activity. Some of that population were “double culls” in that those deprived of their freedom but successful in their new condition would remain in West Africa, while those who were persistently “problematic” were more likely to be sold off to Europeans and be transported to the Western Hemisphere.

    The author describes some of the options in an apology which also shows family pride and a strong sense of identity:

    https://www.newyorker.com/culture/personal-history/my-great-grandfather-the-nigerian-slave-trader

    The relative proportion of these two hypothetical populations is probably unknowable, but suggests that the difficulties of the Afro-American population may result from an enrichment in the troubled population that “lost their freedom” in Africa. Indeed the Afro-American students at Cornel University (2016, I seem to remember) noted that new immigrants from Africa did better on average than native Afro-American students who were demanding special assistance due to the “effects of slavery”. The Western hemisphere may have two intermingled African populations that differ in the status/circumstances of their founder populations.

    It is notable that Compton, California, a Black majority community, with a minor White and Korean components has had a high rate of violent crime for years. More recently the “Sanctuary” program has brought in a significant Hispanic population such that the population is now ~60% Hispanic and ~40% Black and other. The murder rate spiked as various Hispanic “gangs” targeted Black “gangs” along with their friends and families. The murder rate then plunged as the population changed. It is possible that the Hispanic influx targeted and removed the portion of the Compton Black population that was actively engaged in criminal activity I haven’t seen an analysis of the residual Black population in general or of the children in that community, but this may serve as a “natural experiment”.

    The results of the educational testing in the UK and the reduction of violent crime in Compton may both reflect the relevant population selection. The successful students in the UK may be drawn from a stable and successful sub-population in West Africa. The Compton Effect (a bad pun, I know) may reflect the isolation of another “successful” sub-population by the directed Hispanic gang violence. The isolation of a “normal” (low-crime) population may be an unexpected side-effect of the Sanctuary program, i.e. a plan to use the Hispanic influx to clear a feckless sub-population out of American cities.

    As such, “race” would be only a general and limited marker for successful vs. un-successful minority population individuals. There might still be a racial differentiation at higher education levels or with “IQ” testing that would not impair general social and career success.

    I do not have links/references at hand since my discovery that a defective power supply on my desk computer can indeed throw an electrical arc 4-6 inches above the chasis.

    Any constructive comments would be appreciated. Thank you.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  55. @Realist

    Naivety is something different from intellectual stupidity.

    • Replies: @Realist
  56. @Tom67

    That would suggest the prevalence of culture above race.

  57. Z-man says:
    @Realist

    it would appear that blacks/browns/Asians have a distinct intelligence advantage over whites in the UK in light of the fact that blacks/browns/yellows have convinced UK whites that diversity is their strength. Blacks/Indo-pakis/chinks and others have prevailed upon the inferior whites of the UK to allow themselves to be displaced by blacks, thus turning a once proud, industrious nation into a shithole.

    Speaking of the latest terror incident on the London bridge relatives of one of the two blonde victims, both Cambridge graduates have issued this; “We know Jack would not want this terrible, isolated incident to be used as a pretext by the government for introducing even more draconian sentences on prisoners, or for detaining people in prison for longer than necessary,” the statement read. I wonder if his fiancée feels the same way.
    The Brits (English, Welsh and Scots) are doomed!

    • Replies: @Realist
  58. @Tom67

    While performing better than historical African Americans, West Indians — who, according to sociologist Susan Model, are fairly but not super immigrant selected — still do poorly in the US:

    Fuerst, J. (2014). Ethnic/race differences in aptitude by generation in the United States: An exploratory meta-analysis. Open Differential Psychology.

    They also do so in Canada:

    Brown, R. S., & Sinay, E. (2006). student census: Linking demographic data with student achievement. Toronto District School Board Research Report. Organizational Development Department, Research and Information Services

    And, in fact, they do so in the UK (though doing relatively better than in the US and in Canada).

    So the issues is with Black Africans. In the US, I estimated that they do relatively well.

    “Using Surnames to Assess Ethnic Aptitude”
    https://humanvarieties.org/2015/10/28/using-surnames-to-assess-ethnic-aptitude/

    We are currently debating how they do in the UK. And whether the surprisingly good performance in both the UK and US could be accounted for by immigrant selection.

    That issue presently turns on African subgroups differences.

    Now, Chanda might be right that migrant selection explanations are bullshit, especially super-duper ones. And they to seem very much like epicycles. However, most models have a few epicycles.

    In practice, you rejects models when you develop better, more explanatory, ones or you have dispositive evidence against them.

    A hereditarian-like model seems to explain a good deal in general; and it is productive in that it makes predictions which lead to novel research findings (for example our recent genetic admixture studies).

    And Chanda’s evidence is not (yet) dispositive.
    So, he either needs to try to find better evidence — and I said I would help — or provide a more persuasive alternative explanation for the totality of the data.

    I think this is sensible. I imagine that Chanda would agree in principle.

    We disagree, however, about the strength of Chanda’s current evidence and whether we should bother seeking more.

    And even also about what a typical HH model would predict.

    The issue is of interest to me because I am sinking time and money into extravagant admixture analyses conducted on American admixed populations.

    If Chanda can come up with better evidence, I might just go traveling instead, or spend my time trying to decipher Heidegger.

    I am trying to egg him on to up his evidentiary game.

    • Agree: joannf
    • Replies: @Tom67
  59. Polymath says:

    All the rebuttals fail to knock down the basic point: there are African immigrant populations whose school-age children are as smart as white British school-age children. Rather than nitpick, focus on:

    1) can we identify subpopulations in Africa which account for this?
    2) are the white British kids representative?
    3) has anything gone wrong with white British kids?

    My guess:
    1) yes, to a large extent
    2) yes, enough so to justify the conclusion anyway
    3) yes but government coverups will make this hard to prove.

    • Agree: nokangaroos
    • Replies: @PetrOldSack
    , @Alden
  60. Anonymous[107] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mike-SMO

    Just goes to show how soft whites are, that whites get terrorised by black violence for decades and then Hispanics move in and clear the problem up in a matter of years. It’s almost embarrassing how lacking in grit and toughness whites are.

    Whites are capable in an organised, militaristic sense, but no good at street warfare.

    • Replies: @James Scott
    , @Mike-SMO
    , @Lurker
  61. Walter says:

    A genetic evaluation of an epigenetic phenomenon can not be reliable. Otherwise it’s interesting.

  62. @Reg Cæsar

    I don’t think your comment makes much sense, but then again maybe you are only joking.

    If you are NOT joking, and want to go a little deeper than those photos of yours would allow, there is a wealth of literature to instruct you on the environmental influence on the development of nations. A google search will point you to it.

    What is perhaps more important: if you dismiss environmental factors, you necessarily dismiss genetic factors as well, because evolution is pushed by environmental factors, and vice-versa. This phenomenon is called gene-culture coevolution.

    Thus, unless you believe in supernatural factors (always a possibility among humans), or are joking (another human habit), you should reevaluate your assumptions.

    • Replies: @PetrOldSack
  63. Tom67 says:
    @J.G.R. Fuerst

    Sure enough and I am sure you are doing your best. But really how to explainthe difference between how Muslims from the Indian subcontinent are doing in the UB and how all others from the subcontinent are doing? The differences are truly mindboggling. What, if not culture would account for the difference? Myself I am German although born and raised in Russia. In my youth in Siberia (there were deported Germans in nearly every village) you could immediately tell a house where Germans were living from a house were Russians were living. One was in good repair and had a nicely tended garden the other was the opposite.Of course there were exceptions both ways. And there were the Old-Believers (Russian dissenters) which you might mix up with the Germans. Still the general pattern held.
    Nobody would argue that Russians are more stupid than Germans. But it is a fact that Germans were doing better in school as their father´s weren´t drinking as much a.s.o. a.s.o.
    I see the same thing with an African couple living in the small town I am in Germany. They are ambitious, hold their kids on a tight leash and their kids will do well. Not the least because they are not yet tainted by American style living which is taking over in Germany. So no x-box, severely restricted computer access, home cooking instead of TV dinners and the demand for the kids to excel.
    They are doing better than the majority of the kids in their age group. And will do so in the future no doubt.

    • Replies: @J.G.R. Fuerst
  64. joannf says:

    If you want to clear this issue, do IQ tests on a grand scale (not gonna happen, IQ now being a social construct) rather than try to work out angular approaches, in the hope that the resulting angular projections will convince any reasonable person.
    The available IQ statistics remain unchallenged by this comic opera.

  65. What this tells me is that within African societies, there is some self-selection for intelligence among subgroups, somewhat similar to the caste system in India. This is how you get around the regression-towards-the-mean argument. Upper-caste Indians have a much higher IQ on average that Indians as a whole (with India’s average IQ being somewhere in the 80’s). But since Upper Caste Indians have been breeding only with other Upper Caste Indians for a very long time, their children drift towards the mean of their caste, not the mean of the Indian population as a whole. I know just enough about African tribal dynamics to be dangerous (I know that the Nigerian Igbo tribe has higher intelligence than most other West African tribes), but otherwise I can’t say for sure if the same caste dynamic present in India is also present to some extent among Africans. It would plausibly explain why the children of high-IQ African immigrants in the UK don’t regress to a lower IQ mean. Otherwise I’m not sure what the author wants us to conclude. That Magic Dirt is real?

  66. Bravo to Ron Unz for posting this piece

    For what it’s worth, a professor of petroleum geology in Texas once told me that her Nigerian students were better prepared mathematically than the white American students.

    Much of IQ theory is shaky. I might suggest that g, the ghostly metaphysical quantity as in “g-loading,” could use examination. I have interviewed black prisoners in such places as Lorton and the Cook County Jail, these men said to have IQs of 70. They were sharp, easily understood what I was saying, responded cogently and quickly, and showed no sign of being dim-witted. If they had very low IQs, the stupidity must have been concentrated in nonverbal areas. In my nine years as police reporter for the Washington Times, I found high verbal fluency of blacks to be the rule. (Notable exceptions were some of the elderly who tended to mumble.) Whites with a 70 IQ would be visible, and classified as, retarded.

  67. My impression on a quick reading is that there at least two major issues not dealt with. The first, maybe less weighty, one is that Native Britains have been reproducing dysgenically for many decades, starting maybe 150 years ago. The second is the huge varierty of African genotypes, far greater than in the rest of the world. Even within some of the Nigerian peoples there are I understand castes and subcastes. As the IQ differences betwen castes in India are notorious it is reasonable to suppose that much more fine gained discrimination between Africans is needed to descrkibe the reality.

  68. Oh, right, VDare. The white racist site which opposes non-white immigration into Amerikastan, and is named after Virginia Dare, allegedly the first white baby born in North America….which would make her, what, the first anchor immigrant?

  69. Bobb says:

    On the CAT test, which is much closer to an IQ test than are GCSEs/A-levels, no African group scores higher than native whites.

    Also, as far as I’m aware, the Igbos — an unusually smart subset of Nigerians — do genuinely score above 100 on IQ tests, which could mess with expected regression to the mean.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  70. @Anonymous

    It was not part of their blood,
    It came to them very late
    With long arrears to make good,
    When the English began to hate.

    [MORE]

    They were not easily moved,
    They were icy-willing to wait
    Till every count should be proved,
    Ere the English began to hate.

    Their voices were even and low,
    Their eyes were level and straight.
    There was neither sign nor show,
    When the English began to hate.

    It was not preached to the crowd,
    It was not taught by the State.
    No man spoke it aloud,
    When the English began to hate.

    It was not suddenly bred,
    It will not swiftly abate,
    Through the chill years ahead,
    When Time shall count from the date
    That the English began to hate.
    Rudyard Kipling

    Sooner or later.

  71. Pheasant says:
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    Thise ‘Arabs’ were greeks who had not yet been bred out of the population by Islam. Nothing to do with the actual Arab ruling caste.

  72. Sean says:

    But that does not automatically mean that the way these populations rank now, under strongly variable environmental pressures, is necessarily the way they would be ranked under optimal conditions, when no one faces any significant detrimental assaults.

    Let us say you are starved (or frozen) almost to death, obviously you will not be sharp mentally. So of course there can be deleterious things. Yet even these in small doses are beneficial. An animal is not going to fall asleep when cold and hungry, but rather going to up its cognitive game to solve the problem of survival by finding food and shelter. “Stay hungry” is a saying and Comfort Food is for curling up on the sofa with, not the kind of thing to ingest when doing difficult mathematics.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-5169137/Fasting-diets-boost-brain-power.html

    Significantly detrimental assaults 24/7 year after year would reduce actual intelligence year on year.The intellectual superiority of Black African immigrants over white British / Irish (many urban areas of England are heavily larded with Irish) in school examinations being subsequently overborne and reversed in life outcomes by a deleterious-to-blacks racist miasma would continue throughout life and drive average Black African immigrant intelligence down to below retarded by middle age surely? Old black men people in white societies are too intelligent for this post to make sense.

  73. One has to feel for Chanda Chisalas of the world because they are educated and smart but feel the sting of societal scorn for being born black due to overwhelmingly lower performances of the majority of sub Saharan Africans as well as populations derivatives in the Americas.

    But having expressed the sympathy, one must state facts of life: the “whites” already have written languages, long recorded mythologies and histories (it doesn’t matter one bit if it were biased in their favor, for all victors write it), a tremendously long record of inventions and equally a long list of institutions including universities as well as governing bodies (good and bad) and the list goes on and on.

    And it doesn’t matter at times, nay, many a time their behavior towards “non whites” have been horrendous but that doesn’t change reality of over achievement.

    Asians (Chinese and Indians), Africans (blacks and Arabs) and Latin Americans (indios and mestizos) are welcome to match the above record but especially blacks, who are even lacking in a written language. Africa is a huge land with a large and growing population and if they can, they can either replicate or surpass the accomplishments of whites any time they want to in Africa because it’s far too easy to show off in the tolerant Wesr. So what’s going to be?

  74. Anonymous[394] • Disclaimer says:
    @Bobb

    I find it different to believe the average Igbo IQ is 100, because Igboland within Nigeria appears to be just as third world as any other area of Nigeria or black Africa for that matter.

    Either that, or there’s something about the African character in general that makes it impossible to form orderly first world societies even in cases where a particular African group has a high average IQ, so while certain African groups might perform well on IQ tests, they are not able to use that intelligence to replicate first world Western societies because such a way of life is totally counter-intuitive to them on a basic cultural/ethnic level.

    • Replies: @Bobb
  75. @Frederick V. Reed

    Bravo to Ron Unz for posting this piece

  76. @The Germ Theory of Disease

    You make good points.
    Don’t forget to add in the dysgenic effect of ‘externalities’ such as war and disease.
    England, Russia and Central Europe suffered extensive population losses due to WW1 and WW2. After WW1, influenza also had an effect.
    Wars often saw the best and brightest removed from the genetic pool in massive geo-political games played by so-called elites.

  77. Bobb says:
    @Anonymous

    As far as I’m aware, there is a subgroup of Nigerians who have genetic IQs >100, referred to as “Igbo”. I don’t know how many there are. Perhaps I’m wrong.

  78. @Fiendly Neighbourhood Terrorist

    You seem to have a great deal of trouble understanding what words mean. In a single sentence, you have misunderstood the meaning of the words “racist,” “immigration,” “Amerikastan” and “immigrant”.

    That’s a pretty impressive record.

  79. Alden says:

    UK has a huge private school sector for Whites. Any comparison would only be valid if all UK schools were included in the study.

    As everywhere in America and Europe blacks, Muslims and anti White teachers and administrators drive Whites out of the state school system.

  80. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Frederick V. Reed

    The puzzle of low IQ test score despite normal functional intelligence among those of African origin does not seem much of a puzzle in light of the Flynn effect, i.e., the fact that Europeans of two generations ago had mean IQ test scores of around 70 by today’s standard.

    What that means is that IQ test scores are not a measure of innate intelligence, but of some small subsgroup of the faculties that constitute intelligence as modified by culture, whether Igbo, Luo, or that of US inner city blacks, or the white Harvard scholar’s farm-boy ancestors of two generations ago.

    Chanda Chisala does a good job of deconstructing the convoluted HBD explanation for superior immigrant black academic performance, but for those simply curious to know how come those dumb niggers are outperforming we bright whites the explanation is fairly simple.

    Africans ain’t dumb, they just live in a culture that yields low IQ test scores, just like the grandparents of the current generation of bright whites. But the difference between this generation of whites and their grandparents is no more genetically determined or, more importantly, indicative of a difference in intelligence, than in the case of the difference in IQ test scores between present day African and English children.

    That accepted, it is easy to understand why African kids in England do better at school, on average, than the English. They are the children of migrants and migrants of any origin will be among the more energetic, motivated, and physically and mentally fit than the average for their population. Therefore, African immigrants to Europe, originating as they do from populations with the same basic intelligence as Europeans, will be somewhat above the European average intelligence.

    Moreover, because they are drawn from a population that is innately more or less as intelligent as the European population, their children’s intelligence will regress to a mean that is similar to the European mean. That means that despite regression to the mean, the children of African immigrants will tend to have IQ’s and corresponding academic performance somewhat above the mean for the indigenous population.

    • LOL: eah
    • Replies: @GS
  81. joannf says:
    @Frederick V. Reed

    Fred easily nullifies decades of research statistics by personal experience – we all know that, and it’s great that such people like you exist, Frank What would humanity be without its rare geniuses. It’s a pity th method only works for those easily impressed by verbal redundancy vectors.
    Descriptions like “sharp” and “cogent” are also much more sexily didactic than dry numbers IQ science produces. In any case Chandala is a regular contributor to this site and his theory has been around for awhile (@Bardon).
    Onward, Fred ! Give everything.
    You just proved beyond any doubt that “IQ theory is shaky.”
    I wonder what will be next in the series.

    • Agree: eah
    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  82. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Realist

    Blacks have prevailed upon the inferior whites of the UK to allow themselves to be displaced by blacks, thus turning a once proud, industrious nation into a shithole.

    You don’t have that quite right.

    First, it is not Africans who persuaded the English to hand over their homeland to immigrants who will become the majority within a generation. It was in fact the democratically elected leaders, beginning with that old perv., Ted Heath. It was Heath who booted Sir Cyril Osborne out of the Conservative Party caucus for stating that “England is a white country for white people.”

    The Heath doctrine, namely, that England is not a white country for white people, i.e., is not the homeland of the English people, has been upheld by all of Heath’s successors, although Tony Blair, the destroyer of Iraq, put the policy into overdrive.

    What you are seeing in England is the manifestation of elite hatred of the common people. As UK Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli put it in the words of a character in a novel, who said of England that it comprises:

    “Two nations; between whom there is no intercourse and no sympathy; who are as ignorant of each other’s habits, thoughts, and feelings, as if they were dwellers in different zones, or inhabitants of different planets; who are formed by a different breeding, are fed by a different food, are ordered by different manners, and are not governed by the same laws . . . . THE RICH AND THE POOR.”

    Today, the rich remain intent on the genocide of the poor, and the replacement of the English nation by a mongrel United Nations population subservient to the globalist project for World Government.

    • Replies: @PetrOldSack
    , @Realist
  83. Alden says:
    @Frederick V. Reed

    American blacks are very fluent. They do have a way with words. And the criminals are great talkers as they are skilled at BS ing. But if their IQs were tested at 70, that means they really can’t read or multiply.

    Did you ever ask them to read a 4th 5th grade level magazine like People or Ebony? They wouldn’t be able to.

    I spoke with thousands of black criminals over the years. They talk and talk and talk. But there’s endless repetition, illogic, wandering and blathering.

    • Agree: TKK
    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  84. @FvS

    A grossly overlooked point …
    if the results hold water – and I´m reasonably optimistic they won´t – they are all the more reason to reverse all migration; the brain drain hurts everyone, but most of all the countries of origin.
    One need not even look to Africa – the problem has attained disastrous dimensions in Romania (I know all across Europe “Romanian” is Newspeak for “gypsy” – this is not what I mean) and Moldova.

    • Replies: @John Johnson
  85. The biggest problem with accepting this IQ 85, however, is that it still doesn’t solve the problem of IQ 120 migrant parents. If they should be 120 to produce children who are slightly above the white mean, but are below IQ 90 due to being brought up in an African environment, then the African environment artificially depressed their IQ by 30 points or more.

    No that isn’t a problem because it’s entirely plausible for a subsection of society to be higher than the mean regardless if it is suppressed or not. For example a country’s height mean could be suppressed by 4 inches due to diet but an urban subsection like an upper class could still have a higher mean and also not be affected by the environment.

    Again, this means environment trumps genes, and so is a total refutation of the race hypothesis.

    I’m not a fan of either side in this debate but I don’t see a total refutation here.

    What I find disturbing is while you gloat over the results the UK still didn’t achieve equality. From your own chart the scores of various nationalities are all over the map. You seem to be celebrating the public school scores of White students from the most White guilt ridden and race obsessed country while ignoring the completely unequal scores of other groups. If the environmental side is correct then we should be seeing a trend towards equality of all groups. In fact that should have happened decades ago and there should be no Ashkenazi or Han outliers.

    What makes me skeptical of the egalitarian side is that they are unable to explain why mulattoes score midway on intelligence tests regardless of country. Curiously both American and South African mulattoes score midway between Whites and Blacks on such tests. This is also true for Australian Aboriginals. I have read probably a few dozen articles in the MSM where this little tidbit is left out. This is because egalitarians don’t have an explanation.

    But what is truly disturbing in this debate is that the US has spent around half a trillion on the liberal environmental theory and yet the skeptics (most of which allow for a nature/nurture mix) are still treated not only as pariahs but as motivated by hatred. I am an ex-liberal and partly because I was told in college that some fudging (aka cheating) occurs and to let it go. So I was told that anyone who questions environmental theory is evil/ignorant and we yet need to cheat sometimes to promote quality.

    Again I’m not a fan of this debate but liberal theories are not adding up and US policies continue to push our country towards bankruptcy. Hand waving about White students in the UK doing worse than a selected group doesn’t change that.

  86. Onebornfree says: • Website

    So young black males are more easily brainwashed in the systems mandatory indoctrination camps in England than their white counterparts?

    Maybe there is hope! 😂

    Regards, onebornfree

  87. @Brás Cubas

    Brás Cubas says:Next New Comment
    December 2, 2019 at 2:36 pm GMT • 100 Words
    @Reg Cæsar

    I don’t think your comment makes much sense,

    Or does it, must be evidened that brighter collectives or groups make “brighter´´, of more consequential mistakes in sync with better solutions. That is quite evident in the West. Call it ambition, risk-taking based on experimental scaling to reality, the outcome can be outlandish. In the West it is.

    …gene-culture co-evolution

    indeed culture and genes are quite a chicken-egg dilemma, but a slow one, it would take at the least multiple generation-S-, in the tens for the ambitious putting all that is practiced with dogs and horses , other GMO subjects, the latest in biology, and as goes, rather hundreds of generations to see any significant change in laisser faire mode.

    All this distracts from the beauty of the core issue regarding this article. What is wrong with the samples that lead to the outcome suggested by the piece as such?

  88. Alden says:
    @Realist

    The study didn’t include the huge number of Whites in private schools. There are not only school scholarships, but many companies offer private school tuition schemes for children of employees.

    UK income tax is very high. Company cars, non taxed housing allowance and yes private school tuition are common benefits compensate for the low take home paycheck.

    At one time UK had the state high level grammar schools for 12-16 year olds. They were abolished on the grounds of disproportionate representation in that Whites passed the 11 plus entrance exams at a higher rate than blacks and Muslims.

    Now the universities are affirmative action all the way same as American universities. So the upper and middle class Whites who switched to private schools when grammar schools were abolished are now subject to the severe discrimination in college admission we have in the US.

    • Replies: @Realist
  89. Anonymous[588] • Disclaimer says:

    “White British” is a meaningless term any way, Southern English are very different to Northern English in mentality and cultural values and see each other as distinct groups, they might as well be two different nationalities. There’s also heavy Irish influence in many areas of Britain, particularly the North.

    If there was regional IQ stats for the UK , I suspect the white British result in Southern England would be significantly higher than for Northern England. “White British” are not a particularly homogeneous group, ancestry and genetics vary considerably on a regional level in England. “British/English” is becoming an increasingly meaningless term as the regionalisation agenda is ramped up ever further.

  90. @Polymath

    Not an insider, but you corralled the core of the issue. Maybe it is not of interest to the audience, since you approach from a logical point of view, and to almost all it is an emotional issue, unfiltered.

  91. @James Scott

    Occam would think so, yes.

    Asquith famously quipped the War Department ran three sets of stats:
    One to mislead the public, one to mislead the House and one to mislead themselves 😛
    Churchill added he´d never believe a stat he hadn´t cooked himself.

    On these politically fraught (why exactly?) topics the writers-up are hard to distinguish from used car salespersons that would make my sampling theory prof´s hair fall out.

    No raw data, no believe.

  92. One more note to the author which is that I wouldn’t spend so much time on this issue and instead would recommend using your talents to help your people. Both sides of the IQ debate are better off focusing on areas where we know that improvements can be made. I do realize that the IQ debate can undermine liberalism but that isn’t needed due to the long list of liberal failures in prescriptions from their theories.

    Also note that White liberals in the US and Europe have never been serious about data of any kind and in fact could reverse course in the future.

    Liberalism is very emotional and only wrapped with a superficial academic layer. There are plenty of liberals that will tell you privately that they don’t believe everything they say.

    I have had liberals turn on me and they may turn on you as well. It is entirely possible that some limited genetic engineering result will lead them to rush over to the other side without much thought or consideration. In fact I expect this to occur.

    Liberals really don’t care about your study or any study for that matter. They are egalitarians that hate most Whites and the inequity of Western history. Most are holding out for interbreeding as the ultimate solution. This is why they are so offended by border controls. Liberals want to bring in Hispanics to mix with African Americans while encouraging a low birth rate among Whites. They don’t actually believe in equality which is why the new trend in liberal education circles is to move away from tests entirely. This is after spending billions upon billions on programs that assume White racism is to blame.

    I am telling you this in part because you are Black and are probably not aware of how much liberals only pretend to care. If they could they would ban this website and most of the internet along with everything you wrote. I highly suspect you are unaware of how unprincipled they are because you are Black and do not know what is said by White liberals behind closed doors.

  93. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @joannf

    Descriptions like “sharp” and “cogent” are also much more sexily didactic than dry numbers IQ science produces.

    LOL. Remember, there is Science, and then there is IQ science, which is not be exactly the same thing.

    • Troll: eah
  94. mikemikev says:

    Neither am I arguing that all ethnicities and races on earth necessarily have the same average intelligence, presently or potentially, or that races do not even exist – all straw men that so many commenters have been ascribing to me so that they could enjoy the illusion of making an argument.

    You are to be commended for this I must say.

  95. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Alden

    American blacks are very fluent. They do have a way with words. And the criminals are great talkers as they are skilled at BS ing. But if their IQs were tested at 70, that means they really can’t read or multiply.

    That’s obviously boll0cks. If you are white, then your grandparents generation in America or Europe had, by present-day standards, a mean IQ test score of 70. Now are you saying your grand-pa couldn’t read or multiply?

    Actually, common folk of that generation were as numerate and literate as any you can find. My father, born 1902, could sum a double column of digits as fast as he could move his finger down the page. As for reading, he not only read widely as a boy, far more widely than the average kid today, but fifty years later could quote verbatim and at length of what he’d read as a boy.

    • Replies: @Alden
  96. Peter Frost says: • Website

    Chanda,

    “Regression to the mean” refers to the mean of the breeding population. In this context, it’s silly to use the mean IQ of sub-Saharan Africa, which encompasses a very wide range of populations. Even HBD researchers do not agree on that mean. In their review of the literature, Wicherts et al. (2010) argue for a mean of 82, whereas Lynn (2010) puts it at 66. Rindermann (2013) favors a “best guess” of 75. Anyway, the actual number is irrelevant because we are not talking about all Africans from Dakar to Dar es Salaam.

    The impressive academic performance of African migrants in the UK is due overwhelmingly to one African group: the Igbo. If a Nigerian becomes known for stellar academic performance, the chances are very high that he or she is an Igbo.

    The mean IQ of a population is not cast in stone. It can change over time depending on the cognitive demands that the population has to deal with. The Igbo have a higher mean IQ because they began to specialize in trading even before the colonial era. This was not the case with most other African groups, who had to cope with a more limited range of tasks in their daily lives.

    References

    Lynn, R. (2010). The average IQ of sub-Saharan Africans assessed by the Progressive Matrices: A reply to Wicherts, Dolan, Carlson & van der Maas, Learning and Individual Differences, 20, 152-154.

    Rindermann, H. (2013). African cognitive ability: Research, results, divergences and recommendations, Personality and Individual Differences, 55, 229-233.

    Wicherts, J.M., C.V. Dolan, and H.L.J. van der Maas. (2010). A systematic literature review of the average IQ of sub-Saharan Africans, Intelligence, 38, 1-20.

  97. Nate73 says:

    should we assume this is how it will be even when all environments are optimized for full genetic height development

    This is a false premise. It may well be that african blacks under “optimized” conditions fare significantly better than the existing averages, maybe even comparable to whites. But actual african societies provide terrible environments and violent “high time-preference” conditions. And this is what african societies naturally regress to when left alone. To prevent this requires what the Americans did: oppression, harsh authoritarianism, and strong social pressure to conform to civilizational norms.

  98. Ron Unz says:

    Well, I’ve only glanced over the article and the comment-thread, but I think that over the decades the harder-core IQists have really dug themselves into a hole and therefore become extremely vulnerable.

    When you suggest that Sub-Saharan Africans in various countries really have IQs of 65 or whatever and that reasonably approximates their actual native intelligence as measured by empirical results, you’ve set yourself up to be made to look ridiculous.

    That’s the position I called the “Strong IQ Hypothesis” and (I think) rather conclusively demolished in my own article a few years ago:

    http://www.unz.com/runz/race-iq-and-wealth/

    And as I pointed out in a later follow-up and recently reinterated, there are lots of other “anomalies” usually ignored by zealous IQists. For example, in the 1930s Italian-American schoolchildren generally had IQs of around 75 compared to the white normalization of 100, yet today their grandchildren score right around the white average. Obviously, genetic changes changes can’t raise Flynn-adjusted IQs by about 25 points in just two generations.

    On the other hand, it’s perfectly possible that what I call the “Weak IQ Hypothesis” might be correct. IQists would have been much better off trying to hold that much more defensible position.

  99. Mike-SMO says:
    @Anonymous

    Cute! But why would White citizens fight for a piece of desolation. The Hispanic illegals have nowhere else to go, so they fight for space. These are not the people getting an all-expenses-paid slot in the Ivies.

    The fight may come soon enough. Los Angeles south is surrounded by receptive areas for the displaced Black gangs and their families. Most urban areas in the U.S. are surrounded by better off suburbs. If the core of the Sanctuary plan is to clear the citiy cores for redevelopment, the conflict will be in suburban, mostly white neighborhoods. Except for the prior escapees. A Black majority community (for well over a century) nearby has a “typical” suburban (low) crime rate. They are just as likely to be upset by being a designated dump for the urban rejects.

    Possibly there are Black “Anglo-Saxons” hidden in these type of areas.

  100. @Ron Unz

    Ron,

    I’d argue that most HBDers do hold a “Weak IQ Hypothesis” in the ball park of Sailer’s views. Most of use generally take these views:

    1. IQ is ~50-50 genetic and environment
    2. Living in a modern society can help improve scores (but not underlying IQ) by making people more familiar with certain types of tasks and thinking
    3. Various sub-groups within an ethnicity or race can have different average IQs, which, of course, impacts regression to the mean, something we may be dealing with here to some extent
    4. IQ is not the end all be all to a person’s or a people’s worth or ability to succeed

    Finally, this focus on IQ misses the point for many of us. My primary reason for wanting to stop immigration to the United States has nothing to do with IQ. I simply want to live among my own and to be ruled by my own. I want a homeland. I oppose the 130-IQ Chinese scientist as much as the 80-IQ African. They are not my people. Simple as that.

    Too many people incorrectly intertwine the IQ debate with the immigration/white identity issue. They are two very different issues. Proving that Nigerians are as intelligent as white British would not change my mind that the white British should keep out the Nigerians, just as they should keep out the higher-IQ Hans.

    • Agree: Some Guy, FvS
  101. “And this is what african societies naturally regress to when left alone. To prevent this requires what the Americans did: oppression, harsh authoritarianism, and strong social pressure to conform to civilizational norms.”

    Hmmmm . . . well, if you remove the previous structure and in the case of colonial rule, all but demolished the system and you deny access to the one system you put in place.

    And then you depart, having failed to develop a transitionary society — then one might expect a corrective period. And this is how Europeans mock their call to Grecian roots of Aristotle. Aristotle was a obsessive about defining and categorizing. In ruling the world, europeans routinely failed to acknowledge the myriad of civilizations that happened to be black and different. And instead, chose to categorize them as black without applying the important distinctions in culture.
    Consequently, they fashioned countries along these nonexistent borders mixing and matching as they saw fit and in most cases pitted differences against each other for resources.

    When Rome departed, We often referred to that period as the “Dark ages” because in many regions the societies appeared in retro development. That is not a black organizational process, but one that crosses lines of skin color or civilization as a consequence of dominant forces retraction.

    —————————————————————–
    “Without consulting black/white test score it would appear that blacks have a distinct intelligence advantage over whites in the UK in light of the fact that blacks have convinced UK whites that diversity is their strength.”

    You might want to actually read the responses in the article.

  102. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Ron Unz

    it’s perfectly possible that what I call the “Weak IQ Hypothesis” might be correct. IQists would have been much better off trying to hold that much more defensible position.

    and just to remind folks of what you meant by the “Weak IQ Hypothesis” here’s how you described it here.

    We cannot rule out the possibility that different European peoples might have relatively small differences in innate intelligence or IQ—after all, these populations often differ in height and numerous other phenotypic traits. But this residual genetic element would explain merely a small fraction of the huge 10–15 point IQ disparities discussed above. Such a view might be characterized as the “Weak IQ Hypothesis”

    A valid point, but surely the idea thus encapsulated hardly deserves a name. Indeed the whole IQ business with its students of head circumference, its grotesquely stupid claims clearly negated by the Flynn effect, and its relentless promotion by racists and xenophobes seems hopelessly compromised.

    IQ tests don’t measure intelligence as that term is defined by the Oxford English Dictionary, the ultimate authority on the meaning of the English language:

    Intelligence:
    the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills.

    At best, IQ tests measure a subset of the abilities that constitute intelligence. IQ-ists then take an overall score and call it intelligence.

    But that is a stupidity because it is clear from its proper definition that intelligence is not one thing. And that is why schools that use aptitude tests to determine who to admit, generally use separate math and verbal tests (because the scores on the two tests can be so vastly different), although some schools, for example the Yehudi Menuhin violin school, at which one of my nephews was a scholar, obviously certainly does not consider either math or verbal ability of any relevance in deciding admissions.

    And life is much too complex to be navigated merely on the basis of math, verbal and even musical skills. What that means is that people with high IQ test scores are indeed clever at math/verbal logical puzzles etc. but they may be complete morons in other ways. Moreover, such cleverness as they display is in large part a reflection not of genes but of culture, education, and personality traits affecting attitudes to study and scholarship.

    What’s needed, if indeed intelligence testing is needed at all, is an entirely new approach that recognizes the challenge of measuring the ability to (a) acquire, and (b) use knowledge in all spheres of understanding and action. But good luck identifying the intelligence of a great artist, a great scientist, or Mark Twain’s potentially world’s greatest military strategist who, in real life, was a shoe mender.

  103. geokat62 says:
    @Realist

    Without consulting black/white test score it would appear that blacks have a distinct intelligence advantage over whites in the UK in light of the fact that blacks have convinced UK whites that diversity is their strength. Blacks have prevailed upon the inferior whites of the UK to allow themselves to be displaced by blacks, thus turning a once proud, industrious nation into a shithole.

    A few revisions and what you wrote makes complete sense:

    Without consulting black/white test score it would appear that blacks have a distinct intelligence advantage over whites in the UK in light of the fact that Supremacist Jews have convinced UK whites that diversity is their strength. Supremacist Jews have prevailed upon the inferior whites of the UK to allow themselves to be displaced by third worlders, thus turning a once proud, industrious nation into a shithole.

    • Replies: @Realist
  104. Haha says:
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    Funny thing, this IQ. When the celestial empire (China) was being “opened up” (to free trade, especially in opium), many western observers (including Marx) found the Chinese to be “dirty, lazy, and inherently stupid”. Since IQ had not been discovered then, what they really meant was that the Chinese had low IQs (to put words yet to be coined in their mouths). Now all of a sudden, in the course of a few generations, the yellow peril is feared because it is taking over American universities, especially in STEM. Either IQ does not correlate with success in STEM (then what on earth is it good for?), or it bounces up and down in the course of a few generations, or we humans lack the ability to estimate it.

    Seriously, though, IQ theory has embroiled itself in silly fetishes of the mine is bigger than yours variety, expressing what can at best only be broadly estimated to two decimal points (spurious quantification), and malicious racial debates (well, that study does show that those tests revealed less racial differences, but you know those tests have a low correlation with pure “g” so we can ignore that data). If IQ tests do not correlate with academic scores generally and with success in STEM in particular, then the IQ tests are plain silly, a waste of time, and no more savoury or valid than malicious political debates.

    Chanda Chisala has shown some very interesting data that should cause us to question the widely held belief (in many quarters) that all blacks have lower intelligence than whites. His data looks valid, and it is no use quibbling over the “g loading” in GSCE tests. These are time-bound tests administered to students who have undergone similar education, so differences can safely be expected to show differences in learning ability and how much has been learned. The results are so accepted by most educated people, whatever the “g load” of these tests may be. The IQ purists would love to be able to “adjust for” the differences in hard work put in by the students (maybe the Nigerians did well only because they crammed 4 hours per day versus a measly 1 hour of study put in by the inherently more intelligent other races?) Ah, that could be one way of “saving the phenomena”!

    I venture to suggest that if Rap musicians can be persuaded to take out the obscenities and filth from their lyrics and substitute some math puzzles and other such stuff, in a generation or two the measured IQs (and school achievement) of American blacks could improve by at least 10%.

    Note that none of my above tongue-in-cheek remarks imply that there are no differences in inherent intelligence between individuals and races. At the individual level we see it daily. At the level of race, also possibly true but unfortunately so many other things intrude (some relevant, some simply biases, and some fairly unsavoury) that we have to be careful drawing conclusions. Are these differences inherent? Yes, to an extent, subject to the caveat that the “inherited, immutable and inherent” have shown a remarkable tendency to bounce up and down over just a few generations, as formerly village and jungle races adjusted to urban and industrialised life. Us modern people, if regressed to a life in the jungle, would badly flunk nature’s IQ tests and fail to thrive.

    • Agree: CanSpeccy
    • Replies: @PetrOldSack
  105. I don’t get this article. So, elite Nigerians – particularly Igbo – are clever … thanks Sherlock Chisala. If Jews are clever, does that make all whites clever? Or other book studying groups – academic families for example. You expect those groups to be clever. Maybe Parsis are clever – that doesn’t mean all Indians are. Elite Shanghai Chinese are not average Chinese. Etc etc.

  106. @CanSpeccy

    Not bad. Let`s paint the comment´s suggestions from another point of view, to underline the identical conclusion.

    The elites, are measured by money. Money is a genetically inferior concept. No Flynn effect in sight. CRISPR of no help. IQ stats and underlying data, or what they are supposed to point at, would suggest that the cognitive ability of our elites is close to the mean (all of the deplorables, the undesirables, the voters, the public, the commoner, the emotionally loaded comments at unz.com included).

    Surprisingly and that is just a hint, the outliers, the ones that could matter to a smarter society, more homogeneous society, better distributions of wealth, and wealth representing a meaningful term, not GDP, or growth, not cities and Silk Roads, not billionaires, are probably to be found in the shrinking middle classes. Outliers, not groups, individual raw potential is what it takes to build elites that matter, that cater to the problem: a still growing and dis-genic global population, it`s geographical dynamics, it`s beasty consumerism. That is probably the best angle to start building the engine of collective survival for humankind.

    Sadly, that paper, a comprehensive data sheet, of how elite cognitive ability compares to the street, is not yet written. Yet, all of life, being an IQ test, and the lives of both, the public and the elites, floating on Facebook, Google and Twitter, what are the cliometricians waiting for?

    That would be some meaningful research, it is most probably back-chambered and done, from Epstein to Assange, the top agencies, and the data jugglers within social media. Bring these data out, and qualify as a scientist rather. Google does science, admittedly not at the benefit of man, Harvard don`t.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  107. I’ll tell ya what.

    Chanda Chisala is black as the ace of spades.

    And he’s a whole quantum leap smarter than you.

    Nya-nya-nya-nya-nyaaa-nyaaaa.

    • Replies: @Dannyboy
  108. @Haha

    As soon as groups are stitched together, as individuals are globbed together, as in schools and categories, the individual outlier is lost. That is what sophistication and science should urge to look for. Society as is cannot jump start creative processes as the outliers are drowned.

    We do a better job selecting for soccer talent at the earliest age, then looking for capacitative talent in individual contenders, to steer the world of tomorrow. Yet, the enormous blob of data floating in the cloud is a serious sample that could be used to start sorting fine grained meaningful data. Any fart a random individual issues is an indicator of IQ.

  109. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @PetrOldSack

    Surprisingly … the outliers, the ones that could matter to a smarter society… are probably to be found in the shrinking middle classes. Outliers, not groups, individual raw potential is what it takes to build elites …

    Outliers not groups are what it takes to build a competent elite.

    Yes.

    In the England of my youth, the 1950’s, outliers comprised a significant portion of the elite. Clergymen, for example, at one time a large class in England with much time to think, and with evident capacity to think important thoughts (e.g., Bayes, Malthus, Charles Dodgson, Hales) had a real public voice, as did scions of the aristocracy, the likes of (Lord) Bertrand Russell, de Broglie (7th Duke), plus the an academic establishment whose “academic freedom” was a reality.

    But now, throughout the West, the money power controls the channels of communication including the university, so naturally the headlines feature mainly the geniuses of finance, however, ancient, for example the latest to hit the headlines, Little Mike Bloomberg, his face suggestive of a albino prune.

    • Replies: @PetrOldSack
  110. @RLABruce

    Teachers of the third group were told they got all the dumb kids and they shouldn’t expect much from them. All three groups ONLY met their teachers’ expectations whether high, low or average–yet all three groups were the same and had the same ability to achieve.

    In short, it is expectations that determine scholastic achievement.

    Smells like conservative wishful thinking. We just need raise our expectations because I guess all these liberal teachers that dedicated their lives to erasing the gap just weren’t trying very hard.

    Sounds idealistic but I remain skeptical.

    Numerous teachers have written about how Blacks start to have problems around 12 or 13.

    Why would a gap show up later and not earlier? Did their expectations drop? Black infants walk and talk before Whites. Is that caused by the environment? Pediatricians don’t think so and accept it is genetic.

    I don’t think anyone can look at all the evidence and conclude that it’s all environment. I wish that were the case but everything I have read suggests that the establishment is being dishonest for the sake of equality. Maybe this issue shouldn’t be studied at all. I could accept that as a moral position but I don’t buy for one second that the science is settled here as liberals want us to believe.

    Why haven’t liberals gotten the environmental mix right for a single city? This is quite peculiar.

    • Replies: @RLABruce
    , @Curmudgeon
  111. FvS says:

    Nigeria reminds me of India. You have these groups like the Tamil Brahmin and Igbo that are more intelligent than the rest of their countrymen. Then, a sub-set of these groups move abroad, perform well, and people like Chisala think they are representative of Indians or Nigerians as a whole. Interestingly, Nigeria and India both have a severe open defecation problem.
    https://punchng.com/nigeria-as-open-defecation-capital-of-the-world/

    [MORE]

  112. Alden says:
    @CanSpeccy

    I believe you’re responding to your own comment 83. 2 generations ago was 1969. By that time there had been compulsory education at the elementary level in parts of this country for nearly 400 years and in all parts for more than 100 years . In frontier areas where there were no schools the parents taught the kids.

    Anyone born 2 generations ago was the product of generations of compulsory free public schools.

    My post was about years of experience listening to 7o IQ black criminals. Black criminals not the average White person. Black criminals speak endlessly and have a great way with words.

    But those with tested IQs of 70 can’t read or do much more math than very simple addition and subtraction. They talk a lot but aren’t really fluent. They wander off on tangents repeat themselves endlessly have difficulty differentiating between reality and fantasy.

    For instance, I think many really convince themselves that some other dude did it.
    50 years ago, 2 generations, 1969, Rushton published his heresy that the average American White IQ was 100 and the average black American IQ was 100.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  113. Alden says:
    @Polymath

    White state school students, not all White UK students.

    • Replies: @Polymath
  114. Realist says:
    @Alden

    I agree with your comments. My comment was somewhat sarcastic. My point was Whites have stupidly positioned themselves to becoming subservient to the SJW/PC/diversity is our strength meme…thereby turning their nation(s) into a shithole.

    • Replies: @Alden
  115. @nokangaroos

    A grossly overlooked point …
    if the results hold water – and I´m reasonably optimistic they won´t – they are all the more reason to reverse all migration; the brain drain hurts everyone, but most of all the countries of origin.

    It is grossly overlooked and the liberal establishment fails to see that they have put themselves in a no-win situation where either:

    A: All groups have the same curve and through selective immigration they are causing brain drain in the third world.

    B: All groups do not have the same curve and through selective immigration they causing even more brain drain due to intelligence being in greater scarcity in the third world.

    I’m not sure about the UK but in the US a lot of the immigrants are sent to Black areas. They can get a green card that ties them to a specific area.

    So immigration is not at all random as many seem to think.

  116. Alden says:

    I have no interest in IQ discussions because claiming White Americans should not be discriminated against in college admissions and employment because people with average 100 IQs do better in college and in employment than persons with average IQs of 85 is useless in America.

    2, just 2, Supreme Court representatives of Satan on earth laid down in stone forever and ever that the dumbest most useless unqualified black SHALL be admitted or hired. Griggs Ca Duke Power 1973 and Kaiser vs Weber 1979. Kaiser established that a steel mill foreman did not have to be able to read at all or do any math at the lowest level.

    It’s absolutely futile to discuss something written into law in 1968, 1973 and 1979. In America it doesn’t matter how intelligent or skilled a White is. Any non White gets the college place, job contract business loan whatever. Endless discussion of IQs is just a pastime , like playing video games.

    One thing I need to point out. Most middle and upper class UK students attend private schools. So Chandra excluded the most intelligent White students from the study.

    Most Americans don’t know about the extensive private school system in the UK that removes so many middle and upper class Whites from the state school system

    But this Chandra person is English and knows full well that he she purposely excluded the most intelligent Whites from the study.

    An honest study would compare GCSE O and A levels from all school leavers, not just the state schools.,

    • Replies: @Ali1
  117. So some foggy weather and lots of dreary drizzling rain raises IQ points by 30? Is that your argument, that the dirt is magic? Perhaps you can explain how 90%+ black schools in Washington DC, which receive more funding than any other student in the country, graduate with a 10% literacy rate. It is clear these students are able to preform in a “better” environment, which is currently a white majority country. Once the demographic shift hits the tipping point, what stops the UK from becoming the Congo, or Detroit? Then what will happen to these students, will they continue to excel, even though elite African students from their home countries do not preform to this capacity? Also, didn’t you write a whole article about how Chinese students aren’t particularly intelligent, they are just good test takers?

    One thing you didn’t mention is the social aspect. The entire West has been taken over by shitlibs who think melanated individuals can literally do no wrong, so perhaps the grades aren’t 100% accurate. We know for a fact blacks get preferential treatment for placement in these schools so simply existing in white countries grants privileges. To completely ignore this well documented social law is very suspect.

    Where is the UK black renaissance then? If this has been the result since at least 2009, then where is the booming UK aerospace industry? All these black super mathletes, and how has the UK benefited? Thats the point of infinity immigrants forever, right, muh economic growth? So when is the windfall for all this diversity going to kick in?

    • Agree: TKK
    • Replies: @TKK
  118. Realist says:
    @CanSpeccy

    You don’t have that quite right.

    First, it is not Africans who persuaded the English to hand over their homeland to immigrants who will become the majority within a generation. It was in fact the democratically elected leaders, beginning with that old perv., Ted Heath. It was Heath who booted Sir Cyril Osborne out of the Conservative Party caucus for stating that “England is a white country for white people.”

    I concede that the elected officials are to blame for turning majority White countries (US included) into POC infested shitholes…but the burning question is why did Whites elect these scum? It has been suggested that the White trait of admiring individualism is to blame. My reply to that is: The trait of individualism within the White race is admirable when it produces great advancements in science, math, art, architecture, medicine and quality of life…making Western Civilization the greatest. But when individualism facilitates White self-genocide it is pathetic.

    • Replies: @PetrOldSack
    , @CanSpeccy
  119. Realist says:
    @Z-man

    The Brits (English, Welsh and Scots) are doomed!

    As are the Whites in other European countries and the US.

  120. So some foggy weather and lots of dreary drizzling rain raises IQ points by 30? Is that your argument, that the dirt is magic? Perhaps you can explain how 90%+ black schools in Washington DC, which receive more funding than any other student in the country, graduate with a 10% literacy rate.

    The base salary for teachers is around 106k which puts them among the highest in the nation.

    So there goes that excuse as well.

    Where is the UK black renaissance then? If this has been the result since at least 2009, then where is the booming UK aerospace industry? All these black super mathletes, and how has the UK benefited? Thats the point of infinity immigrants forever, right, muh economic growth? So when is the windfall for all this diversity going to kick in?

    Where is the African renaissance for that matter? Liberals teach in the schools that Whites held back Africa as if it happened a few years ago.

    It all stinks to high heaven.

    I actually wish the liberal side was correct but I’m not going to bury my head in sand and just blame Whitey because it fits my egalitarian ideals. This article raises some interesting points but still leaves around 10k unanswered questions.

    • Replies: @OverCommenter
  121. @CanSpeccy

    Little Mike Bloomberg, his face suggestive of a albino prune.

    … A few lines of scripting, and an innate sense of conscientiousness as to who the master is, and yes, a millionaire. He is the early example of the early few(sic) that stitched the open source bytes of naive coders into a Wall street, Google, Facebook, Microsoft monopoly of algorithmic control. It is them, that consolidated the establishment for a generation. Smart yes, visionary in the long term no. These characters were co-opted by the clueless(server in the bathroom enterprise) elites, the few lifted by the upward mobility promise.

    Assange must have had his opportunities to get co-opted(Appelbaum!, Smith?), it speaks for his ethic stances and innate moral compass to not have yielded to the establishment. As said, it takes outliers to start authentic creative processes.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  122. Dannyboy says:
    @obwandiyag

    So when are you going to go back and MAGA, Buckwheat?

    Make Africa Great Again…lol

  123. @Realist

    …but the burning question is why did Whites elect these scum?

    , and keeps electing these scum(octogenarians some now).

    Voting is key here, it is the milk of the cripple cow called democracy. Consumerism is key then, it keeps Whites from voting with their feet, and meeting abuse and violence, with organized retaliatory violence. Never respect one that does not respect yours truly. When your environment is not sympathetic to you, do not expect to be weighted on your talents, as a group, as an individual.

    • Replies: @Realist
  124. RLABruce says:
    @John Johnson

    I gave you a FACT: That study of expectations exists! It is NOT “conservative wishful thinking” but an accepted study conducted under the tightest scientific rigor. And if you think Liberal teachers have “dedicated their lives to erasing the gap,” you don’t know any teachers. Their sole interest is in looking good, so they tailor the curriculum to their expectations of achievement; that is why a lot of high school graduates from inner city schools can’t even read their diplomas.

    Why do you think Affirmative Action is necessary to get blacks into college? Did you know that blacks get extra points on the SAT tests just for being black? https://www.investmentwatchblog.com/asians-penalized-50-points-on-sat-black-students-given-230-bonus-points-and-dreamers-receive-185-points-added-to-sat-scores/

    Another study–more facts, if you can face them–show the scholastic gap starts much earlier than age 12 or 13. Minorities in the pre-school Headstart program entered school at the same achievement levels of whites, then IMMEDIATELY started falling behind whites in first and second grade, even behind whites who were NOT in the Headstart program; once their school work was supervised by their parents–who don’t care and are illiterate themselves–blacks dropped to “expectations.”

    • Agree: Alden
    • Replies: @John Johnson
  125. @John Johnson

    I mean not really… to graduate high school without knowing how to read would actually take effort. We have laws in the US that if students skip school the parents can be punished, so they are physically there in the buildings, they just refuse to absorb the material. Is it because of genes or culture? Honestly I just don’t care anymore, whites have tried and tried to make this social experiment called diversity work, and the only thing we have gotten for it is scorn and abuse.

    • Agree: Dannyboy
  126. @James Scott

    Correct. We are speaking of a country that engages in unprecedented levels of complicity, concealment and whitewashing of the kidnapping, torture and rape of 1000’s of ethnic English girls because it was concerned about the negative optics that inbred Pakistani child rapists might appear to seem as if they are actually inbred child rapists.

    The simplest explanation is of course, that the data has been altered or outright falsified. Ctrl F reveals no use of the word “replicate” or its derivatives.

  127. Realist says:
    @Franklin Ryckaert

    Naivety is something different from intellectual stupidity.

    It is stupid to be naive…and dangerous.

  128. Realist says:
    @geokat62

    I will concede that blacks have only taken advantage of opportunities provided by Supremacist Jews, but the big question is why do Whites, a majority in most cases, allow this to happen.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  129. Realist says:
    @PetrOldSack

    In spite of my comment, my contention is the problems in the US will not be solved through electoral means; the Deep State doesn’t care about the unimportant internecine squabbles of the ‘two parties’ as long as their important issues are maintained. As a matter of fact it strengthens the false perception that there is a choice when voting.

  130. (4) However, quite a few reports show that GCSE point scores — such as strong pass (grade 5 or above) — have mediocre correlations with good measures of IQ. This is why universities additionally use cognitive tests for selection.

    Not many university courses require additional cognitive tests. There are some subject specific tests for Oxbridge, some courses at Imperial and STEP maths for a couple of other university maths degrees, a law admissions test some better universities use and aptitude/ knowledge tests for medicine. Other than that – no. I guess one may view further maths A level as a proxy for advanced skills and knowledge?

    • Agree: Chanda Chisala
    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
    , @J.G.R. Fuerst
  131. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Realist

    I concede that the elected officials are to blame for turning majority White countries (US included) into POC infested shitholes…but the burning question is why did Whites elect these scum?

    You gotta be kidding.

    The answer to that question has been well known since the birth of Western democracy. First, the media, initially newspapers such as the Times of London, lied people into war or whatever it was that corresponded with the elite interest.

    But then, as education became a state function, people were brainwashed by teachers paid for with the electorate’s own dollars.

    And now, that the universities have sold political correctness as the successor to Christianity, which means that people are the target of approved hate speech for speaking for their own interest.

    Want to slow the rate of immigration to Canada, the highest rate per capita in the world, and you are branded a racist. Oppose reproductive failure through state-funded mass abortion, then you will be hounded as a mysogynist.

    Since racism and mysogyny are grounds for firing or imprisonment, and you see why people vote, if the do vote — which increasingly they do not, for the traitors presented to them as the only non-racist, non-mysogynist alternatives.

    And of course all the major parties are funded by the same globalist interests, so there is really no alternative. Or if there appears to be an alternative, the probability is that those offering the alternative are frauds and liars with absolutely not intention of doing what they promise.

    • Replies: @Realist
  132. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @PetrOldSack

    … A few lines of scripting, … and yes, a millionaire.

    Yes, I hired some programmers at one time and it was astonishing what they could produce. All they needed was the ideas and the editing which I provided. What we did was cool, but with hindsight I have to acknowledge astounding blindness to the possibility of using other people’s brains and skills to achieve personal wealth beyond the dreams of avarice. Still, one thing I can boast of is that I am not as white and rinkly as White-Prune-Man Mike Bloomberg.

    • Replies: @PetrOldSack
  133. CanSpeccy says:
    @Jay Ritchie

    Not many university courses require additional cognitive tests.

    When more than half the American population now receives some form of tertiary education, what would be the point of “additional” cognitive tests? If they can read and write, sort of, that must surely be good enough for most colleges.

    • Replies: @Jay Ritchie
  134. martin_2 says:

    The English (white) working class have always placed a low value on education. It sets them apart from almost everyone. Only in the last couple of decades has this anachronistic attitude begun to change.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  135. @RLABruce

    I gave you a FACT: That study of expectations exists! It is NOT “conservative wishful thinking” but an accepted study conducted under the tightest scientific rigor.

    You mentioned what sounds like a social study without a source and then concluded that expectations determine academic outcome.

    That is wishful thinking. Would that same study work on down’s students? Ok so there is obviously a limit.

    Charter schools were expected to close the gap based on the same thinking. Well that turned out to be wrong despite massive conservative support.

    I’m not trying to take sides here. I just don’t think that liberals or conservatives are honestly looking at this.

    Another study–more facts, if you can face them–show the scholastic gap starts much earlier than age 12 or 13.

    Gaps exist very early but liberals fret about the ones in junior high. They can smudge the earlier ones with group work. The behavior gap also starts around 12 or 13.

    I have no problem looking at studies. Conservative and liberal leaders however stick to failed theories as seen by their current prescriptions.

    And if you think Liberal teachers have “dedicated their lives to erasing the gap,” you don’t know any teachers.

    I’ve known plenty of teachers. They all followed the same pattern which is getting burnt out after having high expectations.

    But if you think a confidence trick will solve everything then by all means open a school. Anyone who solves the gap will receive millions of dollars. No reason to waste your time here.

  136. @Peter Frost

    The impressive academic performance of African migrants in the UK is due overwhelmingly to one African group: the Igbo.

    Peter,

    You have made this claim (in different ways) so many times that I don’t know what to say now to show you why it is DEMONSTRABLY wrong.

    It seems you became obsessed with this Igbo theory after I wrote my first article that documented their outstanding performance in the UK, and have failed to move on, despite the contradictory data I’ve directed to you.

    I have pointed to data showing that they are not actually that unique among tribes that come from Nigeria and other English-speaking countries. There are years when the Igbo are even outscored on the GCSEs by the Yoruba, for example — another big tribe in Nigeria.

    (What is true is that the Igbos have probably had a longer history of academic achievement in Nigeria, which probably also gave them a headstart in early migration to the West, but Thomas Sowell has already laboriously explained that this is because they were the most eager to embrace British colonial entry into Nigeria – and hence British education from their missionaries – due to the fact that they suffered the most from the stronger tribes that had constantly raided them for slaves: which is why black Americans have a lot of Igbo ancestry. The fact that other tribes now perform just as well when they also go to the UK or the US is consistent with Sowell’s decades-old explanation of Igbo history).

    But you are wrong even if we reject Sowell’s historical explanation. From the statement you made above, it seems you still even believe that every African country that does well in the UK (Ghana, Zimbabwe, etc) does so because of the number of Igbos they have, which is one of the most bizarre things an African can ever hear someone say (there are virtually NO Igbos who are citizens of countries outside Nigeria, and certainly not among their “migrants” to the UK).

    I take this time to address this because you have influenced many people with this extremely ridiculous debunked view (as you can see even in this comments section) and you never seem to correct yourself when I show you that it is wrong. You apparently just disappear and return much later with the same view!

    Here is just one document showing Yoruba vs Igbo test score performance in the UK:

    https://ore.exeter.ac.uk/repository/bitstream/handle/10871/23323/EAL_and_educational_achievement2.pdf?sequence=1

    Check the top of page 78: it also gives you their respective math scores, English comprehension scores and the total pass rate –Yoruba slightly beats Igbo in this case.

    The Table also tells you that the Yoruba is now apparently a much bigger population than the Igbo in the UK (and in the school system), so … AS I HAVE EXPLAINED TO YOU BEFORE … Igbo performance cannot *LOGICALLY* be the reason that NIGERIA performs so well, never mind the “overwhelming reason” why the rest of “African migrants” perform so well (!!!).

    Is there something else I need to clear up before you stop saying this?

  137. @John Johnson

    I have met people of all races that I would consider more intelligent than I am, in certain areas. That doesn’t mean they are more intelligent overall. For example, I was aquainted with a Black African who was the head of IT at a data intensive enterprise. Very, very smart guy in IT, unlike me who is pretty much limited to the basics of using a computer. Beyond that, he seemed to be lost. I don’t say that disparagingly. I am acquainted with White PhDs that don’t know a whole lot outside their subject. We all learn differently.
    The nurture piece goes well beyond parents, and environments include not just teacher expectations, but course design and teaching.
    A pair of simple examples are:
    1) About 30+ years ago, I was asked by my teenage high school daughter to help her with a math question. I read the question, and didn’t have a clue what the terminology meant, as it was “New Math”. I asked a couple of questions about the terminology, then told her the answer, adding that I didn’t have a clue what she had to do to get there. She asked me how I got my answer, in about 15 words explained how I was taught. Her reply was, Wow, is that ever easy. She got her Masters degree decades ago.
    2) I happened to be speaking to a middle school principal about 15 years ago. She had taught high school math, and was at retirement. She remarked that the boys were doing much worse in math (as opposed to girls outperforming boys). There was some musing as to why. I asked what had changed in the curriculum, and her response was that the curriculum itself hadn’t changed much, but there had been a directive to help girls do better, and that involved changing the way math was taught. It seemed like the light went on, and she added that boys schools and girls schools, historically, had closer results than boys and girls in public schools.
    There is an ongoing debate between academic mathematicians and educators. The former insist that memorizing by repetition, helps the brain recognize patterns, while academic educators believe that as learning by rote, and talk about whole learning. I can tell you that academic educators are full of shit. Math comes from the same part of the brain as language. We learn language through repetition. I can do calculations in my head faster than people my kids age, reaching for their calculators (although perhaps not since retirement).
    I am acquainted with many educators, and most think math can be taught to almost anyone. Explaining it in a way the student understands is the problem. My question is how much has the manner in teaching changed in the UK? The directive has been to elevate the scores of visible minorities. Is that really any different than focusing on raising test scores for girls?

  138. Alden says:
    @Realist

    I just don’t know why all these great intellectuals are not aware that so many high and average IQ Whites in the UK just don’t attend state schools and that there are many arrangements to subsidize the tuition.

    • Agree: Realist
  139. eah says:

    … then the African environment artificially depressed their IQ by 30 points or more.

    I see — there must be a lot tragic dirt in Africa then; sort of an unfortunate accident of nature I guess — or maybe a (racist) conspiracy of nature against Blacks.

    But you’d think that if Blacks are really just as intelligent as Whites, with a more or less similar ‘smart fraction’ distribution, there would be, somewhere in the world, at least one in situ black country (ie not one with an economy developed by Whites, eg South Africa), one that does not rely overwhelmingly on either natural resource extraction (a fortunate accident of nature), or tourism (another fortunate accident of nature), with a per capita GDP above the world average — but I don’t really see one.

    List of countries by GDP (PPP) per capita

    As of 2017, the average GDP per capita (PPP) of all of the countries of the world is US$17,300.

    Even Iceland, basically a barren rock in the middle of the inhospitable North Atlantic, has a per capita GDP that puts it in among the top 15 countries.

    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
  140. Brett says:

    Chisala,

    You might be interested to know that Ryan Faulk believes he was overestimating the effects of regression to the mean, and he has walked back from that. You’re criticizing a position he doesn’t hold anymore.

  141. @J.G.R. Fuerst

    So, what should happen to children of Africans whose parents are at 110 but are being pulled downwards towards IQ 70 (not 85)? They should score even lower than those children of high IQ black Americans who are outscored by poor whites—not to mention the average whites!

    When discussing regression to the mean it is important to be clear about which mean is being regressed toward.

    In the context of IQ genetics, regression to the mean applies when an individual’s phenotype IQ is at the left or right tail of the probable outcomes available based on his underlying genotype. So the mean being regressed toward in the case of the children of UK-African immigrants would be their parent’s mean genotypical IQ/i>.

    If, in fact, Nigerian immigrants are highly selected to begin with, it does not necessarily follow that their genotypical mean IQ would be way down around the African continent’s average of 70-85. Rather, that assumption would only apply to a group of high-IQ individuals which had been randomly selected from the entire continent.

    On the other hand, if first generation Nigerian immigrants to the UK are, indeed, drawn from the cognitive elite of that country, they could easily have a phenotypical average of, say, three SD above their country’s mean IQ and a genotypical average of, say, two SD above the Nigerian mean. In this example, the second generation could be regressing toward their parent’s mean genotypical IQ of +2 SD above the Nigerian mean, which would plausibly place the (regressed) children in the same ballpark of 100-110 IQ.

    Your hypothesis on the other hand is that the observed phenotype IQ of 100-110 among second-generation UK-Nigerians is proof that this is the average genotype IQ of all Nigerians.

    This could be subject to empirical testing. If the tested IQ of the first generation Nigerian parents was higher than their children, then some regression to a lower mean is probably occurring. On the other hand, if there was no decline at all it would tend to support your hypothesis somewhat (although you still couldn’t rule out the hypothesis that the first generation came from particular families/castes/tribes that have genotype means of around IQ 100-110).

    P.S., Another data point arguing against the ~100 IQ African mean hypothesis is that your chart shows Congolese immigrants being way below both the U.K. and Nigerian-immigrant average. This difference suggests that the Nigerian immigrants are more highly selected for IQ to begin with than their Congolese counterparts (who are presumably more representative of the African genotypical average).

    P.P.S., You may have covered it in earlier posts, but your hypothesis would also have to plausibly explain why IQ test scores of Africans are so low when they live in Africa, but suddenly rocket upward merely because they move to the U.K. Is there something in Africa that prevents inhabitants from answering test questions correctly? Why does this change when they move?

  142. Dannyboy says:

    The Left controls “education”.

    Academia should be burned to the fucking ground and all inhabitants put to the sword.

  143. Haha says:

    This IQ thing sure is fun. Now here is where it starts getting really, really funny. Some studies and surveys have shown that the average IQ for American whites has been in decline since about 25 years (I forget the exact point of decline). There definitely has been a marked increase in stupidity over this period, what with people now confused about their gender, seeming to think that all you need do to win a debate is to call the other side “racist and homophobic, and with Professors at prestigious universities criticising math for “creating a feeling of inequality and inferiority”. For some strange reason, blacks (despite their alleged lower IQs) have succumbed less to the LGBTQXYZ stuff than well educated whites. Clearly, high IQs are no defense against a tidal wave of stupidity, whereas lower IQs actually seem to provide some protection. Hmm!

    The point or points is/are simply this/these: differences in intelligence – between individuals and perhaps races – most definitely exist, but it is no easy task to measure intelligence, much less to the second decimal point as the advocates of this “science” do. The test results measure broadly a set of test-takers at a certain point of time. No one can be sure that groups measuring lower on the scale will have their great-great grandchildren also measure lower. The Nigerian example of Chanda Chisala shows this. Of course what polite researchers don’t talk about is that some Nigerians, with modern life opening up their culture and minds, have also developed the smarts of conmen, scam operators, and other white collar shenanigans. Now that is true IQ-progress! Surely, there has to be some correlation between IQ and street smartness and conman abilities. At this rate, the next generation of Nigerians could make progress on Wall St as well – and that will settle their IQ question for sure.

  144. RJJCDA says:
    @J.G.R. Fuerst

    Ah, but as Sam Francis said: “You cannot separate a culture from the genetic endowments of its founding people, nor can you transfer it to another people.” The question therefore is does a culture create distinctive average IQ, or does average IQ create a distinctive culture?

    My definition of culture: the habits, customs, traditions, myths and artifacts produced by a particular group genome interacting with its experience over time.

    My definition of civilization: a culture that is so influential and naturally dominant that other cultures willingly adopt and subordinate within.

    • Agree: J.G.R. Fuerst
  145. @Tom67

    “The differences are truly mindboggling. ”

    I am busy, so I will have to reply in detail later. A few possibilities:
    1) the Muslims have a higher rate of consanguineous marriage, which reduces IQ. And this is why they also have high rates of birth defects in the UK.
    2) India has a huge population (1.3 billion), which is caste stratified; the non-Muslim Indian immigrants are of a particular class / caste.
    3) Pakistani and Bangladeshi speak English as a foreign language more often; differences are largely a product of the psychometric bias.
    4) Other cultural factors are involved.

    I don’t know why you would rule out 1-2. Regardless, I don’t see why your mind would be blown, unless you haven’t given the topic much thought.

    “Nobody would argue that Russians are more stupid than Germans.”

    There probably are subtle genetic differences related to behavior, owing to gene x cultural evolution. We have a similar phenomenon in the US.

    See: https://www.amazon.com/Albions-Seed-British-Folkways-cultural/dp/0195069056

    However, it is difficult to disentangle the genetic and non-genetic factors behind deeply rooted cultural traits. But, what we are discussing at present is the apparent lack of an intergenerational transfer. That needs to be understood and explained.

    “They are ambitious, hold their kids on a tight leash and their kids will do well.”

    One reason our Africans do poorly is their family structure. And It so happens that this structure is common among sub-Saharan African:

    “In Sub-Saharan Africa (henceforth just ‘Africa’), for example, family establishments commonly take the form of separate households for each of a man’s co-wives (and her children), with husbands moving between wives’ households, and women having considerable autonomy, and not much day-to-day economic support. Polygyny is certainly found outside of Africa, but this particular household arrangement is vastly more common in Africa than anywhere else. African societies also generally have strong unilineal descent groups, and great religious power vested in elders and ancestors. (This actually converges somewhat with China, but economics and male-female relations are very different there). Marriage is stronger in some parts of Africa than others, but is generally seen as a device for expanding the lineage, rather than as an economic and emotional union. Within Africa. the major exceptions to these generalizations are often genetic outliers as well: Bushmen, Pygmies, and Ethiopians. Africans on the other side of the Atlantic are an interesting comparison. In some ways they look very African: marriage is not very strong among blacks in the New World. But in other respects, New World blacks look Western: African lineage systems and ancestor worship didn’t survive the Middle Passage and slavery (except among scattered maroon (i.e. runaway slave) groups in places like Surinam). One result is that, although blacks in the US, the Caribbean, and Brazil have all sorts of social problems related in part to family structure, tribalism is really not the issue that it is in Africa.”

    What causes the typical Black American – Black African behavioral similarity in this regards?

    I had Nigerian neighbors across the street. The mother was a daughter of a tribal leader. The father was well-to-do. They converted to Catholicism in Nigeria and attended my parents church here. Their family did fine. Are they doing well, though, because typical African traits no longer intergenerationally transfer in foreign lands, or because they were not representative? That is the immediate question.

  146. Realist says:
    @CanSpeccy

    You gotta be kidding.

    No I’m not kidding. Whites are going to have to stand up for their continuation…or perish.

    You are making excuses for the White man’s predicament. Why is it a few of us are aware of the situation, while others are oblivious? I submit a few of us can think for ourselves…we have cognition and logic.

    And of course all the major parties are funded by the same globalist interests, so there is really no alternative.

    Agreed…that is why the problem will not be solved through electoral means.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  147. geokat62 says:
    @Realist

    but the big question is why do Whites, a majority in most cases, allow this to happen.

    There is a very lengthy explanation for your question. To spare everyone the pain of having to read it, let’s just go with the abbreviated version… thanks to Jewish Supremacist Organizations (SPOs), they were BRAINWASHED!

    See Antonio Gramsci and Georgy Lukacs for details.

    • Replies: @Realist
  148. TKK says:
    @OverCommenter

    The loss of the traditional family with a mama and a papa, who enforce rules boundaries and limitations, while providing good nutrition, medical care and intellectual stimulation will wipe clean most IQ disparities- save the outliers at each end of the Bell Curve.

  149. Dannyboy says:

    Blacks have been told that white civilization is the cause of all their MANY ills.

    Being an ignorant race, they of course accept it and run with it.

    Blacks lack introspection, self criticism etc.. Same as Jews. Which is precisely why they have always been second class.

    European Christian Civilization understands the concept of fallen human nature and sin. That is one of many reasons it is the greatest in recorded history.

  150. @Chanda Chisala

    @Peter Frost
    “which is why black Americans have a lot of Igbo ancestry.”

    I haven’t been following Frost’s Igbo hypothesis. But to clarify, what percent?

    From what I read, the Yoruba, Igbo, and other non-Bantu, Niger-Kordofanian speaking African populations makes up, sub-population depending, 20 to 50% of the African American African ancestry:

    “Supervised STRUCTURE analysis (fig. S34) (4) was used to infer African American ancestry from global training populations, including both Bantu (Lemande) and non-Bantu (Mandinka) Niger-Kordofanian–speaking populations (fig. S34 and table S7). These results were generally consistent with the unsupervised STRUCTURE analysis (table S6) and demonstrate that most African Americans have high proportions of both Bantu (~0.45 mean) and non-Bantu (~0.22 mean) Niger-Kordofanian ancestry, concordant with diasporas originating as far west as Senegambia and as far south as Angola and South Africa (62). Thus, most African Americans are likely to have mixed ancestry from different regions of western Africa. This observation, together with the subtle substructure observed among Niger-Kordofanian speakers, will make it a challenge to trace the ancestry of African Americans to specific ethnic groups in Africa, unless considerably more markers are used.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2947357/

    “These results were confirmed in the estimation of IA by using the program frappe (also in Figure ​
    Figure1). 1). The amount of European ancestry shows considerable variation, with an average (± SD) of 21.9% ± 12.2%, and a range of 0 to 72% (Table ​(Table1).1). The largest African ancestral contribution comes from the Yoruba, with an average of 47.1% ± 8.7% (range, 18% to 64%), followed by the Bantu at 14.8% ± 5.0% (range, 3% to 28%) and Mandenka at 13.8% ± 4.5% (range, 3% to 29%). The contributions from the other three African groups were quite modest, with an average of 1.7% from the Biaka, 0.5% from the Mbuti, and 0.3% from the San. In the bar plot of frappe estimates, individuals (vertical bars) are arranged in order (left to right) corresponding to their value on the first PC coordinate.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2812948/

    Is there some more recent paper that showed “a lot of Igbo ancestry” in particular. The issue seems tangential, but you do make a point of it e.g.,

    “How neatly convenient: the “dumb” African slaves just happened to have a cognitive deficit that also happened to be the exact amount that whites would generously restore to them through a random genetic contribution! Never mind the fact that many of these “dumb” slaves were captured from a tribe called the Igbo, which the same HBDers started claiming is an exceptionally bright tribe”

    • Replies: @Chanda Chisala
  151. don’t really give a shit how ‘smart’ someone/anyone is… it is almost NEVER an issue with what needs to get done in everyday life: i don’t really care if the clerk taking my order understands higher mathematics/whatever, but do they know their job, do it competently, and aren’t total dicks avout it… beyond that, while i may have a vague wish that everyone should improve their knowledge, blah blah blah; i don’t *really* care…
    .
    you know what i do care about ? how ‘good’ is the person… they can be the smartest person in the room, but if they are not a ‘good’ person, they can FOAD as far as i am concerned… ‘goodness’ trumps ‘smartness’ every time…
    .
    the problems we have in society are NOT because ‘our’ (sic) superiors who are doing the bidding of the puppet masters are so-o-o-o DUMB; it is because they lack the moral compass, will, and desire to ‘do good’ for the 99%… easier to serve the 1% and be rewarded, then serve the 99% and be terminated with extreme prejudice…
    .
    as i have said before and kinda, sorta seriously mean it: i would sooner have a ‘good’ retard in the job as president, than virtually ANY ‘smart’ contemporary politician, in that i ‘trust’ the good ‘tard to make moral decisions to benefit the 99%, while a puppet of Empire would not dare…
    .
    again, gilens and page ‘proved’ beyond doubt: the 1% get their way, while the 99% pay… that isn’t a ‘bug’, that is an undocumented feature of Empire’s program… it isn’t because the powers that be are stoopid, it is because they are IMMORAL…

  152. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @martin_2

    The English (white) working class have always placed a low value on education.

    Oh yeah. Says who? Sure there are morons in every society inacapable of significant education but the poorest of London’s 19th Century poor nevertheless sent thousands of kids , wrapped sometimes in nothing but a towel, to London’s ragged schools. And if the English working class cares nothing for education, how come the clientele for the Workers Educational Association (f0unded 1903) with over 500 local branches and delivering 9,000 courses each year in response to local need across England and Scotland?

  153. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Realist

    You are making excuses for the White man’s predicament.

    I don’t think so. The thing is, we all aspire to be realists, but we can never perceive reality as it really is.

    All we know is what our senses tell us, from which we build a model of the world allowing us, perhaps, to understand the relation between cause and effect, and in particular, the effects of our own actions as those actions impact our sensory experience.

    But increasingly, what we know of reality is based not on direct observation of phenomena, but on what we have read or been told. In fact, today, perhaps most of what most people think they know is based merely on the pattern of pixels on a video display.

    Hence our enormous vulnerability to manipulation, which means you are probably right that the globalist elite will never be defeated through the ballot box, or voting machine, even assuming that the ballots are fairly counted and the voting machines are not rigged.

    The alternative, however, looks no more promising. Don’t think the Money Power has not thought of how we might seek to pursue or own interest by unconstitutional means. Hence Homeland Security and the Patriot Act. No, those bastards have you covered.

    Yes the rioters in Hong Kong may have won at least a temporary reprieve from Chinese tyranny, but that is only because Hong Kong’s own elite wish to retain their elite status, rather than be absorbed and perhaps eliminated, by China’s Commie power structure.

    If anyone has a good idea on how to beat the sons of bitches who call opposing your own genocide racism and Nazism, I shall be glad to hear from them, but I’m not expecting any such enlightenment.

    • Replies: @Realist
    , @annamaria
  154. @CanSpeccy

    The article and comments are specifically about English exams (also sat in a number of other countries). I believe that the criticism I was responding to was stating that universities did not rely on the exams in question. That is not true.

    Of interest many of us state A level grades on our CVs 30 years after sitting them. Employers find them more reliable than university grades.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  155. @Jay Ritchie

    “Not many university courses require additional cognitive tests”

    I don’t know about many. But I have a paper on my laptop about ethnic disproportions for the Russel Group, which notes Alice Heim Group Ability Test scores. And notes that the use of the AH produces adverse impact beyond A-levels.

    In the early 2000s, the SAT was piloted, but then droped, which is unfortunate.

  156. Peter Frost says: • Website
    @Chanda Chisala

    Chanda,

    You seem to be making two different arguments:

    1. Igbo do not academically outperform other West Africans.

    2. Igbo do academically outperform other West Africans, but the reason is the high value they place on education.

    This is reminiscent of another debate, which I won’t get into. Since neither of us is Igbo, I hope we can look at the data dispassionately and without getting worked up.

    First, your own data indicate that West African achievement is strongest in three groups: Igbo, Yoruba, and Ashanti. In the United Kingdom, the Igbo are much smaller in number than the Yoruba, while having a similar number of high achievers. So the per capita level of achievement is much higher in the former than in the latter. You concede this point when you write that the Yoruba have “a much bigger population than the Igbo in the UK.”

    For what it’s worth, Nigerians themselves see Igbo as high achievers. The subject is somewhat taboo, and the reasons are almost always framed in terms of openness to Westernization and Western education. My objection to that line of argument is that the Igbo were already a trading nation long before British colonization and missionary work. In fact, there is good archaeological evidence that the Niger Delta was a trading centre at least as far back as the 9th century. The delta seems to have acted as a conduit for trade, via the Niger, between coastal groups and groups in the interior. Whether you believe in cultural or genetic determinism, trade seems to select for high cognitive ability. Ashkenazi Jews and Parsees are the best known examples, but there are many others.

    The Igbo acquired their trading skills because of their geographic circumstances. Later, when the British came, they exploited the opportunities for trade and learning that the new colonial environment created. The situation was similar to that of Japan when it opened up to the West in the 19th century. There was a creative interaction between native ability and foreign knowledge.

    • Replies: @Chanda Chisala
    , @Truth
  157. @nokangaroos

    I love watching the convolutions you people twist yourselves into when your find yourself so roundly and utterly pummeled out of the ring and out of competition.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  158. @Anonymous

    You can’t read. This question has already been dealt with over and over.

  159. Julius Caesar, one of the most brilliant men in history, was a polymath: he was a genius at writing, politics, and war.

    I see no retarded, autistic STEM disciplines mentioned above. Hmm.

    • Replies: @res
    , @annamaria
  160. @Alden

    Is that last “100” correct? I find it hard to believe Phil Rushton ever said American black and white IQs were the same. Later I even had trouble getting him to accept that some of the figures he affirmed for Australian Aborigines, Khoi San etc were more or less meaningless nonsense. He didn’t really have a sensible answer when I pointed out what an IQ of 60 would imply wrt American whites. This was long before Ron skewered the nonsense in Llyn and Vanhenen’s figures. (Did my Irish forbears have to breed in Australia to produce Oxbridge graduates rather than moronic peasants? 🙂

  161. @obwandiyag

    So you disagree with the hypothesis thatt there are significant differences in the chronology of intellectual development (cp. athletic development too perhaps?) as between different genetic pools? Why? On what evidence? Didn’t Head Start run into this as a possible problem? Or do you emphasise for some reason the parental or peer influence later?

    And what do you say to what Peter Frost says about Igbo and others? I play tennis with a Ghanaian investment banker with a PhD who has been working in Hong Kong. I doubt very much that he has lots of intellectually mediocre relations. BTW does it not occur to any holders of the more simpleminded views on any side of these confrontations that the interbreeding of black and white in America was not a breeding of average IQ (100 as adjusted for the Flynn Effect) whites with average IQ 85 blacks? How about lots of poor white trash amongst the whites?

    • Replies: @obwandiyag
  162. res says:
    @obwandiyag

    Julius Caesar, one of the most brilliant men in history, was a polymath: he was a genius at writing, politics, and war.

    I see no retarded, autistic STEM disciplines mentioned above. Hmm.

    Caesar at least appreciated good engineering. Unlike you.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_military_engineering

    One of the most notable examples of military bridge-building in the Roman Empire was Julius Caesar’s Bridge over the Rhine River. This bridge was completed in only ten days and is conservatively estimated to have been more than 100 m (300 feet) long.[1][2] The construction was deliberately over-engineered for Caesar’s stated purpose of impressing the Germanic tribes,[3] who had little experience of engineering, and to emphasise that Rome could travel wherever she wished. Caesar was able to cross over the completed bridge and explore the area uncontested, before crossing back over and dismantling the bridge. Caesar relates in his War in Gaul that he “sent messengers to the Sugambri to demand the surrender of those who had made war on me and on Gaul, they replied that the Rhine was the limit of Roman power”. The bridge was intended to show otherwise.

    And reworking the calendar as he did seems rather scientific to me.

    https://www.history.com/news/10-innovations-that-built-ancient-rome

    This practice continued until 46 B.C., when Julius Caesar and the astronomer Sosigenes instituted the Julian system to align the calendar with the solar year. Caesar lengthened the number of days in a year from 355 to the now-familiar 365 and eventually included the 12 months as we know them today. The Julian calendar was almost perfect, but it miscalculated the solar year by 11 minutes.

    But I am sure you will continue with your contentless blather.

    • Replies: @obwandiyag
  163. @eah

    Correct. Chanda and his ilk would have you take this one study – one – and use it to dismiss countless studies that show exactly the opposite, as well as use it to lecture us that we must dismiss what we see with our own eyes everyday, and have gleamed from history – a history that SSAfrica did not have until more advanced humans showed them the written word.

    Chanda, I have a question for you. Who were a few of the most famous intellectuals of 14th century SSA? Who were a few of their greatest generals? Acclaimed artists? Greatest achievements?

    I have another question – what is the intention and objective of “proving” intellectual equality with whites?

    Is it to lobby for an end to affirmative action, welfare entitlements, and other subsidies for Africans – freeing the mostly white populations forcibly employed as tax slaves to unnecessarily (by your own conclusions) prop up these fabulously entitled people?

    Or are your conclusions arrived at merely to further advocate that negroes must now and always continue to have unlimited access to white productivity and resources so they may.. what exactly? Prove how equal they are by continuing to require unequal advantages mandated by corrupted Western governments? Your insight to that question remains predictably vague.

    And shame on Ron Unz for lending credibility to this conman.

    • Agree: nokangaroos
    • Replies: @obwandiyag
  164. @J.G.R. Fuerst

    “which is why black Americans have a lot of Igbo ancestry.”

    I haven’t been following Frost’s Igbo hypothesis. But to clarify, what percent?

    I don’t have my sources on hand, but it’s just something I’ve informally “known” for a long time. But it’s entirely possible my sources were inaccurate since I can’t compare with your sources now.

    I just checked the Wikipedia page of “Nigerian Americans” now, and it seems to confirm my memory, but it’s not a subject I’m willing to dig too deep into or to defend aggressively (by examining their sources etc) since it’s not exactly a major point. Here’s what Wikipedia says:

    Demography and areas of concentrated residence
    As of 2013, the World Bank estimated that 252,172 Nigerian migrants live in the US. This is 23% of all Nigerian migrants, the most of any destination country. Nigerian migrants represent 0.5% of all migrants in the US, the 32nd highest of all US source countries.[4]

    Based on DNA studies, an estimated 80 percent of African Americans (about 35 million) could have some Igbo or Hausa ancestry. Therefore, 60 percent of them, according to historian Douglas B. Chambers, could have at least one Igbo ancestor.[19]

    • Replies: @res
  165. I don’t believe for a second that black kids outperform white kids in UK schools but if they do, it’s because of massive affirmative action grading.

    We have AA grading here in america too but it apparently is not as extensive as our blacks still get poor grades and do horribly on standardized tests.

    • Replies: @Anne Lid
    , @eah
  166. Wally says:
    @Chanda Chisala

    said:
    “Not sure if this even applies to the paper …”

    – What does “apply” is observation.

    – If what we observe does not comport with your claims, then your claims are obviously fraudulent.

    In every instance where blacks & browns are in great numbers, and / or control the governments of cities, counties, regions, states, countries, & continents we see:
    – massive murder rates
    – massive crime in general
    – degraded property
    – massive disease, especially STDs
    – massive drug & alcohol abuse
    – general filth, squalor
    – massive birthrates
    – inability / unwillingness to support their own children
    – massive youth pregnancies rates
    – massive school dropout rates
    – incredibly low IQs & test scores
    – violence as a way of life
    – fathers nowhere to be found

    From black scholar Walter Williams: https://www.lewrockwell.com/2017/11/walter-e-williams/black-self-sabotage-2/

    “In 2016, in 13 of Baltimore’s vastly black 39 high schools, not a single student scored proficient on the state’s mathematics exam. In six other high schools, only 1 percent tested proficient in math. In raw numbers, 3,804 Baltimore students took the state’s math test, and 14 tested proficient (http://tinyurl.com/y7f56kg2). Citywide, only 15 percent of Baltimore students passed the state’s English test.
    Of the nation’s 100 largest school systems, Baltimore schools rank third in spending per pupil.
    Baltimore’s black students receive diplomas that attest that they can function at a 12th-grade level when in fact they may not be able to do so at a seventh- or eighth-grade level.”

  167. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Jay Ritchie

    The article and comments are specifically about English exams (also sat in a number of other countries).

    Yes, but according to the Gruniard, in Britain, as in America, almost half of school leavers go on to post secondary education. So my point, remains, when many individuals of average and some of below average intelligence are readily admitted to the universities what possible sense does it make to demand more than basic literacy and numeracy. A perceived need for “additional cognitive tests” seems bizarre.

    Of interest many of us state A level grades on our CVs 30 years after sitting them. Employers find them more reliable than university grades.

    Well I suppose if you spent three years wenching and boozing and finished with a pass degree or whatever the lowest grade is now called (first class with one star, perhaps?) it would be relevant to mention if you’d got all A’s at A level). But how C and D grades at A-level could be “more reliable” than, say, a five starred first or whatever the top grade is in rocket science is hard to fathom.

    • Replies: @Jay Ritchie
  168. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Doesto_whatever

    Much to my surprise God answered. He said, “Sorry, you will have to go through the regular channels to speak to Jesus.”

    I found speaking with Jesus easy enough. Just used Skype, but with the video display covered to avoid viewing the face of God.

  169. Factorize says:

    The plight of Africa does not appear to have reached mainstream Western consciousness. It is widely recognized in the economic development community that Africa will face an increasingly serious challenge in the 21st Century attempting to feed itself as agricultural resources are strained by rapid population growth etc. . Evidence of this is already evident in average height in most African nations.

    http://ncdrisc.org/height-mean-line.html

  170. @Wizard of Oz

    I don’t know what you’re babbling about.

    I only know that little English Nigerian girls are smarter than you!

    As proven beyond the shadow of a doubt by blacker-than-the-ace-of-spades Chanda Chisala, who is also smarter than you!

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  171. @res

    He delegated that shit to his autistic STEM retards.

    Delegation is a political skill.

    Dumbass.

    • Replies: @res
  172. @MikeatMikedotMike

    Chump. It is a joy to watch your convoluted hopping and skipping and shucking and jiving and loserized bullshitting in the face of Chanda Chisala’s proving, absolutely, that little Nigerian girls, as well as Chanda Chisala, are your intellectual superiors, loser.

    • Replies: @Truth
    , @annamaria
  173. Polymath says:
    @Alden

    Do you have a number expressing the proportion of white students excluded?

    Do you have a number expressing the gap between the included and excluded white students?

  174. @Peter Frost

    Chanda,

    You seem to be making two different arguments:

    1. Igbo do not academically outperform other West Africans.

    2. Igbo do academically outperform other West Africans, but the reason is the high value they place on education.

    I said nothing about “West Africans.” Just Nigerians. So let’s fix your two points:

    1. They do not necessarily outperform other Nigerians *IN THE UK*
    2. They apparently outperform other Nigerians *IN NIGERIA* (especially those living in the Islamic north that understandably rejected Christian missionary led education).

    I’m not an expert on the history, I’m relying completely on Thomas Sowell’s theory and your theory.

    If 1. and 2 above are true, it is a confusing pattern if we take your theory about some kind of natural selection process (or something) raising their biological intelligence above the other Nigerian tribes.

    If 1 and 2 above are true, it is NOT a confusing pattern if we take Sowell’s theory. If they became “smarter” just because they embraced the British (and their education) in Nigeria more than other tribes did, then it should follow that when members of other tribes MIGRATE TO BRITAIN together with Igbos, the Igbo advantage should disappear, especially among children born within the UK, since they all become equally exposed to the same superior British education.

    Sowell gave this modern cultural theory for differential tribal performance *in Nigeria* long before any of this UK ethnic performance data came out and yet it is completely consistent with it:

    “Even within the southern regions, some groups were more receptive than others. Most receptive were the Ibos, a poorer, more fragmented group, once heavily raided by slave hunters, and living in a less fertile part of Nigeria. To the Ibos, Western education was a rare opportunity to be seized.Thomas Sowell, Race and Culture p 123.

    You say:

    First, your own data indicate that West African achievement is strongest in three groups: Igbo, Yoruba, and Ashanti. In the United Kingdom, the Igbo are much smaller in number than the Yoruba, while having a similar number of high achievers. So the per capita level of achievement is much higher in the former than in the latter. You concede this point when you write that the Yoruba have “a much bigger population than the Igbo in the UK.”

    No. You’ve misread the data, if you’re referring to the table I just directed you to in my last post. It shows the *mean scores* within each tribe. And it’s those mean scores that we are comparing with the British whites (including separate mean scores in math and English).

    But whatever the case, you would still be wrong to infer that they are the “overwhelming” (or even significant) reason for the “impressive African performance,” since they’re such a SMALL segment of the migrant African population (or even the Nigerian migrant population), while scoring equal to the much larger Yoruba population (mean scores). The math just doesn’t work for your hypothesis.

    In short, and this should hopefully put this to rest: If you take out all the Igbos from the UK, the Africans (especially from English-speaking African countries) *STILL* outperform the British whites. Take a look at the tables again from the last link I gave you.

  175. LexP says:

    I am a very practical person:

    Who makes the best doctors, mechanics, engineers, plumbers, electricians and such?

    I can tell you hands down: Whites.

    Argue all you want about the IQ number. Their are so many confounding factors that everyone is so happy to find/point out to get the mighty AAAAHHHHHHH.

    But, fact of the matter is that HuWhite men are second to none.

    Take it from an Arab that grew up in Detroit: You do not hire dey blax. You hire White Men to get the job done.

    • Replies: @Truth
  176. @obwandiyag

    I think you are probaby right. You really can’t follow the thread. Perhaps it is a problem caused by your mother’s drug taking or some other early environmental influence. Such problems can affect both motivation and capacity. You are unable, it seems, to appreciate that I was following directly on from your criticism of another commenter. But maybe you were merely opening your mouth and shouting about him rather than attempting any analysis. Whatever the explanation you should consider consulting an educational psychologist.

  177. Truth says:
    @Peter Frost

    1. Igbo do not academically outperform other West Africans.

    2. Igbo do academically outperform other West Africans, but the reason is the high value they place on education.

    Actually, No, Poutine Pete, this is not what I gleaned from C-deuce’s argument.

    What I belive he is trying to communicate is that the Igbo may in fact outscore other Africans, and may, in fact be more academically capapble than other Africans, but not to the extreme that they are an outlier in this argument.

    And as artillery to back up his position, he is positioned the evidence that Ghanians outscore whites in this arena as well.

  178. Truth says:
    @obwandiyag

    You gon’ take that, Rabbi Mordechai?

    I heard he said sum’ bout ya Momma…

  179. Truth says:
    @LexP

    Take it from an Arab that grew up in Detroit: You do not hire dey blax. You hire White Men to get the job done.

    You sayin Honkee’s is smarter than Camel Jockey’s?

    • Replies: @LexP
  180. JP says:
    @Chanda Chisala

    Well, if hereditarian theory has any merit, then we do know which whites are applying. It is the smarter whites. If this is not true, then the strong correlation between educational attainment and intelligence is false, at least here.

    Ron Unz has an extensive series about this called “The Myth of American Meritocracy”. Education is not a proxy for IQ, but for connections and social brownie points. His series is about the American Ivy League, but I see no reason why that would be different in the UK; if anything, it would be worse, considering that their system is older and has a more entrenched social caste system.

  181. @Realist

    Perhaps it shows that increased intelligence doesn’t always lead to enhanced survival?

    Or perhaps the heritable trait of altruism promotes survival only in culturally homogeneous social groups?

    It is also possible that I don’t really understand what I am talking about.

    • Replies: @Realist
  182. FvS says:

    I’d like data on Nigerian (primarily Yoruba and Igbo) university student IQs rather than South African university student IQ scores. Africa is incredibly diverse racially. Europe is as well, but not to the same degree. You wouldn’t use Albanian university student IQ scores as a substitute for German university student IQ scores. Also, I haven’t seen any HBDer claim the genetic IQ of Africans to be 85. 80 is what I’ve seen.

  183. @Chanda Chisala

    How well do sub-Saharan Africans do on the SAT?

    • Replies: @RobbieSmith
  184. @Anonymous

    Anonymous239, you wrote “Perhaps beacause many of the people who migrate are the cream of the crop where they come from. And the natives represent a mean average.”
    Either you didn’t read the article (which validly — say I as a trained psychologist — refutes your argument in detail and at great length), or your are too mathematicaly challenged to understand the article. The whole point of the article was precisely the refutation of your argument. I suggest you read it and look up concepts like regression to the mean.

  185. @CanSpeccy

    Believing is seeing, had a look at your webpage, no indicatives as to who and where. The name and content presumes somewhere Canada. Great effort, sadly mostly lost, the multiplier of social media is the bullhorn of our times. Anyhow, one has to prone v-e-r-y simple ideas to have a chance capturing the copy-delete crowd. Knowledge-able snips, and the choice of formatting as far as a handheld helps the content to express itself.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  186. @CanSpeccy

    Thank you for your brilliant reply Father of all Fathers.
    Only one thing troubles me. How did your Holiness come to my aid so quickly?
    If it weren’t divine intervention, then what was it?
    I pray that I’m in bed and sleeping when you actually come for me.
    Sadly, that won’t be the case.

  187. @CanSpeccy

    Seriously that was a brilliant article you wrote on your website. Thanks for the great laughs.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  188. Africans “manufactured” their first smartphone in 2019 (article here).

    This incredible “African-made” phone comprises:

    African-made Android OS.
    African-made Corning Gorilla Glass.
    African-made Octa-Core Processor.
    African-made Snapdragon 435 Processor.

    Those Africans. Outperforming whites at every turn.

  189. Props to J.G.R Fuerst for his heroic effort and diligence and kudos to Chanda for being a gentleman all throughout this exchange. Unz Review manages to have a much more informed – and polite! – conversation on a controversial topic than any of the MSM.

  190. Realist says:
    @CanSpeccy

    The thing is, we all aspire to be realists, but we can never perceive reality as it really is.

    we can never perceive reality as it really is How can you know that? And not all aspire to be realists many aspire living under a rock.

    All we know is what our senses tell us, from which we build a model of the world allowing us, perhaps, to understand the relation between cause and effect, and in particular, the effects of our own actions as those actions impact our sensory experience.

    Talk about being off in the weeds. Are you trying to impress with your metaphysics. The subject here is the survival of Western Civilization.

    But increasingly, what we know of reality is based not on direct observation of phenomena, but on what we have read or been told. In fact, today, perhaps most of what most people think they know is based merely on the pattern of pixels on a video display.

    That’s not true for those with an IQ sufficient to think logically for themselves.

    The alternative, however, looks no more promising. Don’t think the Money Power has not thought of how we might seek to pursue or own interest by unconstitutional means. Hence Homeland Security and the Patriot Act. No, those bastards have you covered.

    That self sure smug attitude you describe has been held by all wealth, powerful groups in the past…just before their demise.

    If anyone has a good idea on how to beat the sons of bitches who call opposing your own genocide racism and Nazism, I shall be glad to hear from them, but I’m not expecting any such enlightenment.

    So all is lost…we are doomed!?

    I am no fan of democracy or a democratic republic, which is not how this country started out. It was a quasi meritocratic democratic republic. Democracy is one of the worst forms of government…it allows stupid people to vote…and hold office. I prefer a true meritocratic form of government…with the greedy accumulation of wealth not considered meritorious.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  191. Anne Lid says:
    @Hang All Text Drivers

    Massive is an understatement. My son went to primary and now goes to secondary in Britain, I attended for awhile two colleges and a uni. Some black kids are very bright, but the majority is distinctly duller and less inquisitive than whites. Some are very hard workers, and that makes up quite a bit for not having a particularly high IQ.
    The data is not reflecting reality. For one, exams are becoming less and less important, and “work” done during the term more important. “Group work” and cheating is rampant. Teachers, administrators bend over backwards to help the faltering students, with myriad second chances and tutoring. The meat, the really hard stuff is pushed to the side for easier material, so anyone with a middling intelligence but halfway conscientious can get good grades.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
  192. Realist says:
    @Julian of Norwich

    Or perhaps the heritable trait of altruism promotes survival only in culturally homogeneous social groups?

    Things are always better in homogeneous social groups.

  193. Realist says:
    @geokat62

    There is a very lengthy explanation for your question. To spare everyone the pain of having to read it, let’s just go with the abbreviated version… thanks to Jewish Supremacist Organizations (SPOs), they were BRAINWASHED!

    That just begs the question…why do we allow ourselves to be BRAINWASHED?

    • Replies: @geokat62
  194. Anonymous[208] • Disclaimer says:

    There are clearly big differences between Southern (especially South East) and Northern England. I suspect the average native English IQ in South East England is well above 100, this is stockbroker and director country. In Northern England, however, an average IQ in the low to mid 90s sounds more realistic.

    Some of the lower IQ in Northern England may be down to heavy Irish genetic input in many areas as it’s a known fact that the natural average Irish IQ is quite a few points lower than the English natural average IQ.

  195. Richard B says:
    @J.G.R. Fuerst

    “You will know them by their fruits.”

  196. Richard B says:
    @Anon

    Medieval Superstitions and The Medieval Spirit are two completely different things.

    The first has to do with politics and morals, the other with the arts & sciences.

    From the perspective of the social, moral, and political, many Whites are still operating out of a medieval mind set. Worse, they don’t even know it.

    This was exactly the Achilles Heal that the great parasitic predator correctly identified and successfully exploited.

    • Replies: @Anon
  197. “– What does “apply” is observation.

    – If what we observe does not comport with your claims, then your claims are obviously fraudulent.”

    If the observations are accurate then whether they apply to the articles content requires an assessment of the circumstances between the the groups being compared. Based on the material regarding circumstance it’s false comparison.

    Neither the environments, or educational systems are similar enough to accurately come to any conclusion save one, Baltimore schools systems and factors that impact cognitive understanding, learning and advance are not conducive to the goals of education.

    As in the case presented by the article we are talking about similarly conditioned students – leaping across the pond to an environment not reflected and in many cases totally opposite of the article would not by definition yield said results.

    ———————————————

    I am not a fan of the white gene better advance or genes being the lock on intelligence clusters across people of different skin colors —- but the contention that one contradiction to a recognized or stated “truth” challenges whether said “truth” is correct.

    And I think the responses in this article clearly accomplish that.

  198. @Chanda Chisala

    Chanda,

    I was referring to data that you had previously presented:

    http://afripol.org/afripol/item/1813-uk-nigerian-academic-performance-in-destroys-the-myth-of-black-low-iq.html

    May I quote you?

    “The igbo were even more impressive given their much bigger numbers (and their consistently high performance over the years, gaining a 100 percent pass rate in 2009!). The superior Igbo achievement on GCSEs is not new and has been noted in studies that came before the recent media discovery of African performance. A 2007 report on “case study” model schools in Lambeth also included a rare disclosure of specified Igbo performance (recorded as Ibo in the table below) and it confirms that Igbos have been performing exceptionally well for a long time (5 + A*-C GCSEs); in fact, it is difficult to find a time when they ever performed below British whites.”

    In that article, you presented the following GCSE score results:

    2009: Igbo – 100%, Yoruba – 39%
    2010: Igbo – 80%, Yoruba – 68%
    2011: Igbo – 76%, Yoruba – 75%

    There is significant year-to-year variation, and that in itself calls into question the value of the data as a proxy for IQ. You state that this is evidence of convergence: “the Igbo advantage should disappear, especially among children born within the UK, since they all become equally exposed to the same superior British education.”

    Such convergence wouldn’t occur in the space of only two years. It looks like there has been “gaming” of the system and that the Yoruba have been learning from the Ibo in this respect. This is a problem when we use academic scores instead of IQ scores.

    • Replies: @Chanda Chisala
  199. Anon[930] • Disclaimer says:
    @Richard B

    the Achilles Heel that the great parasitic predator correctly identified and successfully exploited.

    Paris?

  200. res says:
    @Chanda Chisala

    Wikipedia reference 19 is a dead link, but here is an archive page: https://web.archive.org/web/20080128095303/https://www.usm.edu/pr/prnews/apr05/chiefchambers.htm

    It does not have much meat to it. If anyone wants to follow up on this it is probably better to check out Chambers’ 2014 book:
    https://www.amazon.com/Diaspora-Slave-Trade-Introductory-History/dp/1938598083

    The summary there:

    Of the estimated 1.7 million enslaved people taken from the Bight of Biafra in the transatlantic slave trade, some three-quarters or about 1.3 million were Igbo. As the British dominated the Biafran trade, especially before 1810, the great majority of enslaved Igbo wound up in the British Americas. The single most important diasporic destination in this massive forced migration was Jamaica. Enslaved Igbo also were taken in large numbers to other British Caribbean islands, as well as to what became the United States, and to the French sugar-island of Saint-Domingue (Haiti), and in the nineteenth century to Cuba and Brazil. This book explains the basic historical geography of the enslaved Igbo Diaspora and suggests the many ways that Igbo contributed to slave resistance and the development of early African-American cultures in the New World, as well as historical consequences of the violence of slaving for Igboland itself. Throughout the Atlantic world, Igbo Africans had a well-deserved reputation as “bad slaves.” Who in their right mind would wish to be remembered as a “good” slave?

    P.S. It is worth considering how weak a claim “Therefore, 60 percent of them, according to historian Douglas B. Chambers, could have at least one Igbo ancestor” really is if we are looking back about 5 generations to slavery in the US. 2^5 = 32 so one (pure!) Igbo ancestor five generations ago would contribute about 3%.

  201. res says:
    @obwandiyag

    That he even thought to do any of that indicates an inclination in that direction. As I observed, he at least saw the value in STEM. Unlike you.

    As for your final sentence. Projection is a terrible thing. Do you think your vulgarity and lack of content makes your comments more convincing?

  202. Arioch says:

    > while the African performance goes down drastically without their advantage on the math and English sections

    …and to prove it you compare data from 2011 and 2003?
    Which alone begs a question if the selection “who wants and can migrate in UK” did not changed much in those 8 years.

    If you have GSCE data split by subjects, why not present the data about same people in same years, just with average over English+Math vs their own average over all other sibjects

  203. I have a question; who cares?

    Why is the obvious undertone implying that the UK should keep taking in immigrants, because look a handful aren’t awful, and not that the UK needs to focus more effort on raising the grades of white UK students? Because it is well established fact that it is more efficient and effective for Western countries to spend aid at home then abroad. Shouldn’t the UK governments first priority be to raise the grades of the native (still mostly white) children already in the UK, rather then spend effort importing foreigners? Why aren’t you saying that math is a universal language, and Nigerians don’t need UK schools to better themselves? Why is your only answer for Nigerians to run away to the West instead of making Nigeria into something other than a shithole?

    So then we get to the issue of test scores, apparently Nigerians are better at math than the native UK whites. Well, does any other immigrant group score higher than Nigerians? Because if so, then why would you ever import “lesser” immigrants?

    It’s funny for all your intelligence, pedigree, and sophistication, at the end of the day all you are is just another race hustler. Granted, a much more refined version that say Al Sharpton, I’ll give you that, but you two are basically the same thing. I saw your wordpress info and your website you won an award from Stanford for “innovation” is just a news blog. What it has AIM chat rooms integrated, is that it? So for all the glitz and glamour you haven’t actually produced or created anything, all you have done is receive handouts from guilt tripped whites, and never had to accomplish anything outside this tribalism cottage industry that exists because of the majorities good graces. You aren’t an inventor, a creator, or even a producer of anything tangible, you are nothing more than a grifter.

    • Agree: MikeatMikedotMike
  204. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @PetrOldSack

    Believing is seeing, had a look at your webpage, no indicatives as to who and where. The name and content presumes somewhere Canada. Great effort, sadly mostly lost, the multiplier of social media is the bullhorn of our times.

    “Mostly lost”– no doubt true, but mostly I write to see what it is I think. To promote what I write, I’d feel the need to polish everything, which as a former publisher is something I regard as real work! But thanks for your taking a look.

  205. res says:

    Some more details about the orange graphic in the post. Although the source is given (thanks, Chanda):
    “Source: Back to Basics: Towards a Successful and Cost-Effective Integration Policy”
    I have not seen any link or followup on that.

    The full report is available at
    https://www.ippr.org/publications/back-to-basics-towards-a-successful-and-cost-effective-integration-policy

    That graphic is Table 6.1 on page 43. Some explanatory text:

    Table 6.1 suggests that some children from migrant and minority groups do well in public examinations at age 16, and others less so. The data also points to changes over a seven-year period which may be due to interventions to support particular groups, or, more likely, as a consequence of the introduction of the maths and English requirement into GCSE data. This analysis needs to be seen alongside 2012 GCSE statistics which, for the first time in five years, show a widening gap between the GCSE results of bilingual children and their peers.39

    Further analysis of this data shows other important trends. There are often considerable differences between local authorities in the achievement of specific ethnic groups, pointing to heterogeneity within groups as well to the effectiveness of schools and local authorities in raising levels of achievement. There are big gender gaps in levels of achievement: girls do better at school than boys, although the size of these gaps differs between communities.

    The first important point is these tests are at age 16 so late enough for most maturation rate differences to be relatively small (in contrast to earlier ages).

    The second important (and I think under commented on in this thread) is the large differences between 2003 and 2010-2011. They provide some possible reasons, but I think it would be better to include additional years so we can be sure the trend is consistent and reproducible (e.g. not cherry picked data).

    This except makes an important point I think we all should be more careful about. The various data sources use different categories (e.g. Nigerian, African) and we should try to compare like to like as much as possible.

    Rarely do administrative datasets – for example, the School Census – ask questions about migration and length of time spent in the UK. Rather, quantitative analysis of administrative datasets usually uses the broad ethnicity categories used in the census. These broad categories aggregate diverse groups – for example, those of Nigerian and Somali origin into the category ‘Black African’, obscuring sharp differences in experiences of education, employment and other aspects of integration and producing an uninformative or even misleading overall average.

    For anyone interested in the populations in the graphic, Appendix A1 at the end of the report provides some demographic information for various groups by country of birth (note subtle difference between that and “ethnic group” of Table 6.1, see excerpt below). Here are the column headings:

    Country of birth
    Estimate of population size, July 2010– June 2011
    Notes of migration routes into the UK
    Employment rate Oct–Dec 2011, as % of 16–64 population
    Unemployment rate Oct–Dec 2011
    Economic inactivity rate (includes students) Oct–Dec 2011

    Here is an excerpt discussing the data in Table 6.1. In particular notice the bolded portion. Given that I think we might want to be cautious in being overly reliant on this data.

    However, central government does not collect data on the educational outcomes of specific migrant groups. In England, however, schools and local government have the option of using ‘extended ethnicity codes’ to collect data on educational achievement. Here broad ethnicity categories using in the census can be refined using extended categories.38 These extended codes can be used as a proxy for migrant groups (although many of the children concerned will have been born in the UK). Table 6.1 (over) presents new analysis for England showing educational performance at 16 (in GCSE examinations) by extended ethnicity code.

    While the table highlights differential educational achievement, it should be noted, that not all local authorities in England collect data using extended ethnicity codes; there are some local authorities with diverse populations that do not do so. Additionally, new guidance on school achievement data requires that local authorities submit data to the Department for Education using only four ethnicity categories – White, Black, Asian and Other, thus aggregating diverse groups and masking underachievement in some cases.

    I am curious about “masking underachievement” in that. Couldn’t it just as easily mask overachievement?

    I am also curious about the “new guidance.” When did that happen? Was it between 2003 and 2010 (i.e. might it explain part of that difference)? What is the breakdown of local authorities who submitted data using the different ethnic codings?

    Lastly, is there any explanation for the terrible results of “White Eastern Europeans” and especially “Portuguese” in Table 6.1?

  206. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Doesto_whatever

    Seriously that was a brilliant article you wrote on your website. Thanks for the great laughs.

    Thank you for the plug.

    The idea for a conversation with Christ is, of course, inspired by the Gospels, wherein speaking with God is explicitly encouraged. The psychology of such conversation is interesting, and, potentially, a powerful influence on behavior.

  207. “It’s funny for all your intelligence, pedigree, and sophistication, at the end of the day all you are is just another race hustler.”

    Quite the opposite. The response to a series of arguments about his analysis of an educational artifact regarding skin color and academic achievement. If the data sets are correct he is simply punching a whole in a time honored assumptions and the research methods that have supported it.

    It actually diminishes “race” as the overriding factor. And it does so without disparaging genetics mechanisms in human cognition.

    Why, who, what and how’s of immigrating anyone is a separate issue

    • Replies: @OverCommenter
  208. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Realist

    we can never perceive reality as it really is How can you know that?

    How can you even know that there is a reality, independent of what you perceive reality to be? But if there is a real reality all we know of it are the shadows of figures in the real world cast on the wall of the cave.

    Are you trying to impress with your metaphysics. The subject here is the survival of Western Civilization.

    No I am trying to bring to your attention your own philosophical inexperience. To learn more you will need to read more: try Locke, Berkeley and Hume. Well, for now, forget Locke, whose English is tiresomely circumloquacious.

    But increasingly, what we know of reality is based not on direct observation of phenomena, but on what we have read or been told. In fact, today, perhaps most of what most people think they know is based merely on the pattern of pixels on a video display.

    That’s not true for those with an IQ sufficient to think logically for themselves.

    Your comment confirms you urgent need to learn (a) the meaning of the word “epistemology” and (b) learn some epistemology.

    The alternative, however, looks no more promising. Don’t think the Money Power has not thought of how we might seek to pursue or own interest by unconstitutional means. Hence Homeland Security and the Patriot Act. No, those bastards have you covered.

    That self sure smug attitude you describe has been held by all wealth, powerful groups in the past…just before their demise.

    Smug? Smug! LOL. What I wrote was despairing. Yes, of course all past power structures have collapsed, otherwise they would not be past. But if you consider how many folks, realist or otherwise, were crushed before the collapse, then you would not take too optimistic a view of your own chances, in all your epistemic naivety, of bringing down the most technologically advanced and globally concentrated power structure there has ever been.

    I am no fan of democracy or a democratic republic… I prefer a true meritocratic form of government…with the greedy accumulation of wealth not considered meritorious.

    Ha, but the globalist elite not only consider wealth meritorious, they think it the sole measure of merit, and they intend to buy every intelligent person who can be put to work ensuring their everlasting power.

    So all is lost…we are doomed!?

    Oh, no, definitely not. What is clear is that our globalist elite is, for the most part, as philosophically unaware as you are, and hence highly vulnerable to the mental rot that self-adulation creates. Meantime, good people work to combat the degradation and enslavement of the masses that the elite, with their teams of high IQ programmers and strategists, spies and PR agents so energetically strive to bring about.

    • Replies: @Realist
  209. Arioch says:
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    Something tangential, maybe, is passionarity hypoithesis.

    To describe the genesis and evolution of ethnic groups, Gumilyov introduced the concept of “passionarity”, meaning the level of activity to expand typical for an ethnic group, and especially for their leaders, at the given moment of time. He argued that every ethnic group passes through the same stages of birth, development, climax, inertia, convolution, and memorial. It is during the “acmatic” phases, when the national passionarity reaches its maximum heat, that the great conquests are made. Gumilyov described the current state of Europe as deep inertia, or “introduction to obscuration”, to use his own words. The passionarity of the Arabic world, on the other hand, is still high, according to him.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lev_Gumilyov#Ideas
    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9F%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%81%D0%B8%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%8F_%D1%8D%D1%82%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%B7%D0%B0

    Granted, this seems to be explaining things retroactively rather than predicting and seems be qualitative not quantitative.

  210. Realist says:
    @CanSpeccy

    How can you even know that there is a reality, independent of what you perceive reality to be? But if there is a real reality all we know of it are the shadows of figures in the real world cast on the wall of the cave.

    More cornball metaphysical bullshit.

    Ha, but the globalist elite not only consider wealth meritorious, they think it the sole measure of merit, and they intend to buy every intelligent person who can be put to work ensuring their everlasting power.

    Who cares what a few elitists think…that doesn’t prove it’s validity. An intelligent person could not be bought to provide their own demise.

    • LOL: CanSpeccy
  211. If a few Blacks are superior to Whites in math, bully for them.

    Give them their own homeland so they can build Wakanda.

    • Agree: OverCommenter
  212. @Chanda Chisala

    Given the demographic characteristics of boroughs such as Lambeth, which score highly on measures of deprivation, do you think your analysis might be enhanced by controlling for potential confounding variables such as socioeconomic class?

    As I understand it, the research literature shows it is working class white boys who do particularly badly in terms of academic achievement. Since areas like Lambeth comprise predominantly low income households, it may be that the sample of white pupils in your cited research is not representative of the white population as a whole. Hence, it may be incorrect to draw from such studies the wider inference that blacks as a whole outperform whites academically.

    I should perhaps add that I find the reported differences in mean intelligence between white and black populations highly implausible and probably indicative of poor cross cultural validity in the measures employed.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
    , @Chanda Chisala
  213. As I have always suspected, the intelligence of American Blacks is probably lower than that of the genotype potential of Africans in Africa.

    I think the dysgenic trends surrounding this population, whether it was Slave owners breeding them for strength and not intelligence, or the accidential dysgenic trends of welfare in the 20th century, had dramatically reduced their IQ. The biggest implication of this article is that our policy toward American Blacks have been disasterous.

    For instance, African Americans have 10 times the homicide rate of Whites in America, but as far as I know, no other non white groups has even remotely half of that crime rate. African Americans are an outlier in intelligence, in a negative fashion.

    I still think Africans are less intelligent than the European Whites, but I think the difference is much smaller than it is between American Blacks and American Whites, maybe like 5-8 pts, rather than 15pts.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  214. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @John Arthur

    I still think Africans are less intelligent than the European Whites, but I think the difference is much smaller than it is between American Blacks and American Whites, maybe like 5-8 pts, rather than 15pts.

    You think? You call that a thought?

  215. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Julian of Norwich

    I should perhaps add that I find the reported differences in mean intelligence between white and black populations highly implausible and probably indicative of poor cross cultural validity in the measures employed.

    On what basis do you find them implausible if not that of the “measures employed”?

    • Replies: @Julian of Norwich
  216. @EliteCommInc.

    He uses the headline “black students” while the entire substance of this article is only a select few ethnicities within the larger African group actually break the mold. So right off the bat he is being disingenuous, and probably purposefully inflammatory. It’s not the opposite, because he only seems to care about the success of Nigerian students in the UK as leverage to stick it in the eye of HBD’ers. When in fact this entire whinging and whining article actually seems to support the theory of Human Biodiversity, because if we are to believe the evidence presented (some other commenters are disputing the sources) then these Nigerians in the UK are preforming differently than every other African in the country, so clearly there is some kind of difference.

    How does he “diminish race as the overriding factor” when race is all he talks about? “And it does so without disparaging genetics mechanisms in human cognition” this does not make sense, I think you may have had a stroke.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  217. LexP says:
    @Truth

    On average, yes.

    Islam wrecked the Middle East.

    As a proxy for the West take a look at the Christian pockets versus the rest of the Middle East that is Islamic.

    Those Christian pockets have higher IQs as well as greater abilities when it comes to anything mechanical or being in the medical field.

    If you go anywhere in the world to a job site you will typically see a bunch of European men in charge of the the actual project and laborers being people from other nations.

    Skilled labor also has a face versus unskilled labor.

    Unskilled labor will typically be people of the darkest colors.

  218. FvS says:

    Some more thoughts.

    1. Lynn has the Nigerian IQ at 84. However, if you just took the scores of Yoruba and Igbo, I bet it would be higher, maybe in the 87-90 range. Apparently, Yoruba and Igbo are pretty much identical genetically. According to a Nigerian commenter I read, many of the upper class Yoruba and Igbo have been that way for a long time. Perhaps some mild eugenic effects are taking place there? And if the majority of Nigerian immigrants are coming from the upper class…

    2. As many have pointed out, private school students are omitted. I’m guessing whites makes up the bulk of private school students in the U.K.

    3. The above two issues would obviously make the parental IQ requirement lower.

    4. You point to the occupational profile of African immigrants. However, this would include Congolese and Somali. Would be interesting to see the occupational profile of just Nigerians.

  219. FvS says:
    @J.G.R. Fuerst

    It’s interesting that for the A-levels, mixed white and black Caribbean students score almost halfway between the two groups. And if we assume that whites aren’t having as many kids with Somalians or Congolese, the same is true for mixed white and black African students.

  220. @OverCommenter

    It’s a simple standard.

    X is the evidence of superiority

    Whites score better at X than blacks.

    Whites are superior to blacks.

    In testing there is evidence that

    blacks score higher at X than white

    It doesn’t matter how many. The fact is the stated original premise is not true. In investigating the details, the matter (the original premise) is further demonstrated to be false.

    Now what you are pressing for are the qualifiers or the conditions to segregate out that truth from general accepted belief. Which the author of the article does in no small detail. Now before we get to the qualifying standards, it is interesting to note that those same standards of conditions, circumstances to qualify said results and studies were rejected when pressed to the original. Now that the evidence as explicated against the same, there seems to be a lot of complaints and advances about conditioning the results.

    That’s worm turner by anyone’s view. Point of fact, only a relative few of any community of any color are actually over achievers to the standard. Aside from that what it indicates is that circumstance and environment seem to outweigh color — when taking into account the failure to apply the qualifiers you press for, it is a safe bet that IQ and academic achievement comparisons require considerable attention to the factors that impact cognitive learning, beyond skin color. To ignore those conditions is to rig the game — which in my view is demonstrated by this article.

    That under similar situated individuals cognitive learning and intelligence is not skin bound. I can certainly understand why you prefer the original methodology. I am of course exceeding where the article’s author has pressed, I think.

    • Replies: @Lol
  221. @CanSpeccy

    Well I suppose if you spent three years wenching and boozing and finished with a pass degree or whatever the lowest grade is now called (first class with one star, perhaps?) it would be relevant to mention if you’d got all A’s at A level). But how C and D grades at A-level could be “more reliable” than, say, a five starred first or whatever the top grade is in rocket science is hard to fathom.

    A fair question. UK employers do find A levels grades somewhat reliable when recruiting – something based on experience. They also make extensive use of aptitude tests for numeracy, verbal reasoning etc – no one risks calling them IQ tests but they are pretty much serving that function.

    Degree grades are a tough one. Throughout the English education system there has been huge grade inflation over the last 20 or 30 years. The benefit of A level grades is that you have some comparability and experience to judge how grades might have differed over a ten year period. They are to a reasonable extent matched for difficulty against each other – so other than subject specific skills a grade in history is somewhat comparable with the same grade in Biology.

    Degree grades are pretty random and not really trusted unless you know the course and subject. When I was at university 30 years ago first class degrees where not uncommon for science degrees (25% of people at decent universities perhaps?) but very rare outside of sciences (perhaps 1% tops). Thus low comparability between subjects. Now you find courses where 40% get first class honours.

    Likewise its not unusual to find that universities with very low admissions requirements have a far higher percentage of students awarded the top grades than the highest ranking universities. Thus university grades are difficult to rely on.

    For the purpose of the work the Mr Chisala is undertaking there would be no reliability in using university results. There is in using high school standardised tests as they are comparable across subjects and schools.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  222. Lol says:

    Didn’t know people still waste their time with this, especially since we’re going to discover dozens of alleles regulating this the upcoming decade.. Lol

    As a rule, I refuse to engage in any debate on tsis topic if my opponent doesn’t have a model for this superior to the race-iq model. If you can’t posit a model that fits the data better and has superior predictive power, you’re just engaging in sophistry.

    So should quantum mechanics be discarded because the math breaks for large scale objects? If you reject race-iq based on these data points, you need to reject all science theories because they all fail this standard.

    Heck, applying this standard to any environmental explanation makes that explanation fail because poor Russian children that grew up in the 90s have higher iqs than American blacks. I only need to find a few data points, right? =))

  223. @Peter Frost

    OK, at least you are now engaging with the data; that’s encouraging, thanks. Fuerst and others have already raised some of your objections before. This was data from my first article. The wide fluctuations for certain groups were indeed a problem. But no, that is not because of “gaming the system.”

    It is mainly a result of tiny samples in much of that data, which fails to offset the effects of immigration. The solution was to look at bigger nationwide samples. Some of the groups are still too small even then because they are just too few in the UK.

    Saying they are just learning to game the system is a bit silly since the fluctuations in that data were not only going in one direction. For example the Twi-Fante moved from 69 to 84 to 66. This makes sense if you are looking at a small sample with varying levels of immigrant proportions in every year. The “gaming the system” theory is further implausible because they performed well even when the system was changed (from coursework). They would have to be extremely clever to game the system even *before* they see the new system ! (Above all, they would also have to game the A-level system and the university system too — their highest performers in this “gamed system” continue excelling all the way through Oxford!)

    No. The reason the numbers were swinging so wildly in that data was the small samples, as I’ve previously tried to explain in other subsequent articles, compounded with the rnadom rates of annual tribal immigration. The newer immigrants perform quite poorly (compared to whites), whether they are from Igbo or Yoruba or Ghana etc, which points to the vast qualitative superiority of the British education system. If you have a small sample and you get many newer immigrants writing the tests next year, your results are expected to get a big swing downwards. But ultimately the biggest underlying problem was just the sample sizes.

    Those samples were around 400 pupils in a local London authority.

    Which is why we ultimately turned to Strand’s bigger data (thousands) covering the whole nation (still not everyone, as Fuerst pointed out, but you don’t need absolutely everyone to be “representative”, as I objected). As Strand himself analyzes, this effect of newer immigrants lowering the score is evident even in this bigger sample, but is obviously much less. Additionally, it was a longitudinal analysis.

    The second point to remember, which I have again pointed out in previous articles but no one ever seems to remember, is that there are two kinds of Igbo children in the UK (just like there are two kinds of Yorubas etc): those who speak Igbo FIRST at home and those who speak only English at home. The ones who speak English only at home perform MUCH HIGHER than those who speak Igbo first (as Strand generally noted – this is not just for Igbos.)

    This data we have here, of these different tribes outperforming the British, EXCLUDES those higher performing English-first Igbos/Yorubas etc. The ones who speak African languages at home are much more recent migrants compared to the ones who only speak English, who are much more likely to have been born in the UK.

    So, those high-performing individuals I’ve talked about, like the Ota sisters who outscored the entire country, are actually NOT included in this “tribal* data by Strand and others. None of those.

    Thus, when someone reported data showing the “Ibos” outperforming the Chinese, this must have obviously included the English-first Igbos, the Chidera Otas. The reason this can be confusing is that sometimes researchers use “ethnicity” (which will include English-first Igbos) or they simply ask what language is spoken at home (which excludes the English first Igbos, Yorubas etc who don’t have African languages at home).

    The Igbos who speak Igbo at home DO NOT ever outperform the Chinese by score or pass rate, but they still vastly outperform the British whites. These are the ones who are also outscored by Yorubas sometimes. I expect that there may be more proportionally more Igbos in that extreme overachieving English first group because, as I explained my earlier post to you above, they had a headstart in migrating to the UK (and the US) since they had earlier exposure to education (and the English language) in Nigeria, not to mention the Biafra war problems that led some of them to leave. But that’s probably irrelevant.

    My point, however (even if you ignore everything I’ve said above), is that on the national level, the Igbo-first speaking Igbo pupils appear to be a tiny group (around 1 percent of other-language-first Black African migrants), so they cannot logically be the OVERWHELMING explanation for high African migrant performance.

    So, you should stop saying that, but neither should you shift to “they are just gaming the system,” because that’s even more ridiculous. As Fuerst will tell you, their performance is impressive even in the US. If they are gaming the GCSEs, SATs for thousands of their children without anyone ever finding out…, well, then maybe they really are the smartest people in the world!

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
    , @Peter Frost
  224. Lol says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    The hypothesis is that white people score higher than blacks on average. A subset of blacks scoring higher than whites doesn’t invalidate the hypothesis. Maybe read more and write less because the comment you’re replying to already implied this.

  225. @Julian of Norwich

    Given the demographic characteristics of boroughs such as Lambeth, which score highly on measures of deprivation, do you think your analysis might be enhanced by controlling for potential confounding variables such as socioeconomic class?

    As I understand it, the research literature shows it is working class white boys who do particularly badly in terms of academic achievement. Since areas like Lambeth comprise predominantly low income households, it may be that the sample of white pupils in your cited research is not representative of the white population as a whole.

    I’m afraid that doesn’t help the case for the British whites too much. From Strand’s report:

    “All Black African language groups, including those with English as their first language, have much higher than average levels of socio-economic disadvantage.” – Strand

  226. “The hypothesis is that white people score higher than blacks on average.”

    But the average you not is based on a test that measure outside of environments and circumstances that impact the cognitive issues. If I compare all oranges and note that some provide more energy. Before make a generalized conclusion that p oranges have a better innate genetic quality that makes them superior I need to take into account environments and circumstance. I would then raise p oranges, k oranges, and l oranges in the same brew test performances on the X and compare those performances.

    And you are wrong, the hypothesis states the reason for the higher test score is white genes —- Its the cause at issue not merely the observation of difference. the article makes clear when environments are and circumstances are similarly matched the results don’t appear to be that whites have any innate superior cognitive ability in this battery of measures.

    What has been the primary method could be distilled in one logical fallacy —-

    over generalization, false comparisons, etc. very common errors in analysis. Not as common but prevelant is to mischaracterize theories for the purpose of scoring points. For example.

    “The hypothesis is that white people score higher than blacks on average.”

    few dispute the what — it;s the why that is in question. In this case, they why of superior cognition based on skin color is rebutted —-

    • Replies: @OverCommenter
  227. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Jay Ritchie

    Degree grades are pretty random and not really trusted unless you know the course and subject. When I was at university 30 years ago first class degrees where not uncommon for science degrees (25% of people at decent universities perhaps?) but very rare outside of sciences (perhaps 1% tops). Thus low comparability between subjects. Now you find courses where 40% get first class honours.

    I think when I graduated, 55 years ago, I recall it being stated somewhere that firsts were awarded to about 10% in the sciences, 7.5% in the social sciences and 5% in the arts. That seems about right, since the people with firsts seemed bright and they worked hard. In my faculty, the year I graduated, there was only one first out of about 120 degrees granted.

    One response to grade inflation would be to replace the old degree divisions, first, upper and lower second, third, pass, fail with five grades of firsts, denoted by one to five stars. A first class degree with one star sounds much better than a pass degree , and a first with three stars sounds positively splendid compared with a lower second, so people shouldn’t mind so much not getting the highest possible grade. Perhaps the failing grade could be renamed in some way too — “Course Completed with one to five stars for diligence”

    More useful, though, is the practice of at least some North American universities of indicating on which percentile a student ranked in their class. This was my criterion when hiring STEM grads. I interviewed those who’d graduated in the top ten percent of their class and mostly hired those in the top 2%. Needless to say they were all brilliant.

    UK employers … also make extensive use of aptitude tests for numeracy, verbal reasoning etc

    For some roles that may work well. But what if you need someone who actually knows the subject? This is why it seems bizarre that top American universities rely on SAT tests rather than knowledge tests in selecting entrants. If all you need to get into Harvard is a full score on the SATs, why bother to learn anything: learning’s evidently for losers!

  228. CanSpeccy says:
    @Chanda Chisala

    So, those high-performing individuals I’ve talked about, like the Ota sisters who outscored the entire country, are actually NOT included in this “tribal* data by Strand and others.

    Sorry if I missed something, but who are these people, and in what way and in which country did the outscore everyone.

  229. geokat62 says:
    @Realist

    That just begs the question…why do we allow ourselves to be BRAINWASHED?

    I’m no psychoanalyst, but my sense is people are very susceptible to utopian ideologies. That’s why Disney movies are so popular… everyone loves “and they all lived happily ever after” endings.

    The Bolsheviks pushed Communism, where the oppressed working class would do away with the exploitative capitalists.

    After over 100 million people were slaughtered to that false god, it was not long before the same culprits began to push egalitarianism. This time everyone is assumed to be equal except for straight white men who are the oppressors of every other minority group. Heaven only knows how many unfortunate souls will be sacrificed in the name of this false god.

    Truth be told, both utopian ideologies were sold to ensure Never Again.

    • Replies: @Realist
  230. Realist says:
    @geokat62

    To my knowledge there is no race on the planet that carries individual freedom (individualism) and anti-identitarianism to the point of racial suicide, other than White gentiles. To me that is stupid. The Jews sure as hell don’t do it. The Asians don’t do it. Even the Blacks don’t do it.
    The fact that some Jews use their tribalism for duplicitous means is not excusable, but the fact that White gentiles allow it is also not excusable in fact it is stupid and will bring and end to Western civilization.
    Whites must embrace identitarianism while at the same time retain some of the individualism that has made Western civilization so great. One doesn’t necessarily preclude the other. Individualism has spawned innovation in the West as in no other civilization, but forfeiting tribalism in grave matters of survival is stupid.
    For many hundreds of years Jews have survived in spite of the immense hatred toward them due to the fact that some Jews lie, cheat, are corrupt and take advantage of others. While their demographics have been against them they have survived because they are smart enough to remain tribal.
    I am not suggesting that Whites emulate Jewish subterfuge, just adapt a more tribal/identitarian attitude.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
    , @saneworldnow
  231. rogerla says:
    @albionrevisited

    The wannabe Igbo ethno-state would be called Biafra. Thanks to the UK to have put a stop to that.

  232. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Realist

    but the fact that White gentiles allow it is also not excusable in fact it is stupid and will bring and end to Western civilization.

    But an end to Western civilization is the intended objective of the globalist Western elite. The project stems back to the Rhodes, Rothschild, Beit, Milner conspiracy, aka the Round Table Movement, still alive and well after more than 120 years in the form of the Council on Foreign Relations, Chatham House, and the Royal Institute for International Affairs, and still backed by the bankers and billionaires.

    The objective is not to preserve Western civilization but to destroy it. Hence the substitution of political correctness for Christianity and the concerted program to destroy the Western nations by a combination of repressed fertility and mass replacement immigration.

    If you’re gonna stem the tide, you gotta get up to speed about what’s happening. Democracy is a charade. At elections, the public is given a choice without a difference, a choice of alternative routes to the same end: self-destruction: jobs off-shored, addictive drugs both legal and illegal available to all, inflation far above wage growth, and open elite contempt for fly-over country and the resident “basket of deplorables,” with any pushback being labelled racism, white supremacism, KKK-ism and Nazism. And now they’re coming for your guns.

    The ultimate objective is the mongrelization and trivialization of all cultures which are to be replaced by a synthetic porn- and other garbage-based PC culture to create what the distopian novelists of the 20th century — Orwell, Zamyatin, Huxley, Orwell, etc. foresaw: a world where the common folk are mere slaves and puppets of a decadent elite.

    And once you realize who the enemy is, what’s your fight back planÉ Don’t ask me, for I don’t have a plan, other than to point out who the enemy is. Beyond that, what can I do? Elites aren’t called elites for nothing. They’re the people who run the country and the globalists own both sides in virtually every political contest.

    • Replies: @Realist
  233. SO, the fact that they give Blacks a 256 handicap in SAT scores says they are outperforming Whites? Really!?
    Hellywood contstantly projects everyday Blacks as authority, the Doctors, the Police, the Bosses, the wisdom givers, or the ‘good’ people — while every time, EVERY TIME they script Whites as the criminals over and over again. AND WE KNOW, I KNOW THESE ARE LIES. So this is JUST MORE LIES.

    The thing that may be harming Whites is the attack, the shame, the bashing of Whites, the mass homelessness to 95% Whites that I see in my own country and city!

    This is just more psychological warfare on Whites. They lie, Truth means nothing to the ‘Marxist/Liberal/Zionist/Communist’ owned media world round.

    • Agree: CanSpeccy, Dannyboy
  234. @Realist

    Whites through decades and decades of slow and insidious indoctrination from Hellywood and the Jewish ADL pounding for the change to ‘immigration’ in ’65, the CIA run ‘Civil Rights’ warfare on Whites, and the anti-White/American ‘Affirmative Action’ slowly eroding shaming our own ‘psyches’ to defend our Culture and race.

    So it isn’t stupidity per se, but, it has become pathological altruism. Even in the 40’s and 50’s Hellywood then run by the ‘LeftyJews’ were showing their anti-White/ anti American meme. It has been going on for a very long time.

    And, don’t forget the infiltration and lethal spread of drugs by our own government and CIA! Both illegal and now pharma ‘Oxycotin/Heroine’ targeting Whites! and all rural communities.

    Look how China was completely subdued by the Opium drug wars. Taken over by the Jew Sassoon and now Rothchilds cabal. What do you think the ‘one child’ policy was. To! make sure they could not have family’s …Asians IQ are above the Whites. China is still thier vassal/slave completely, IMO. So it is a long dark subversion of the White/Western/European world.

    WE don’t think like them. Truth is nothing to them! They the Jewish minds are an antithesis to the Western/European/Christian mind. They admit this themselves.

    • Replies: @Realist
  235. @James Speaks

    The persistent so-called “achievement gap” reveals the same racial IQ hierarchy on standardized academic exams. The SAT is largely a measure of general intelligence. Scores on the SAT correlate very highly with scores on standardized tests of intelligence, and like IQ scores, are stable across time and not easily increased through training, coaching, or practice. SAT preparation courses appear to work, but the gains are small — on average, no more than about 20 points per section.

    Vanderbilt University researchers tracked the educational and occupational accomplishments of more than 2,000 people who as part of a youth talent search and determined that scores on the SAT correlate so highly with IQ that they are described as a “thinly disguised” intelligence test.

    ACT Scores by Race:

           Year              White             Black               Asian
           2009              22.2               16.9                 23.2
           2010              22.3               16.9                 23.4
           2011              22.4               17.0                 23.6
           2012              22.4               17.0                 23.6
           2013              22.2               16.9                 23.5
           2014              22.3               17.0                 23.5
           2015              22.4               17.1                 23.9
           2016              22.2               17.0                 24.0
           2017              22.4               17.1                 24.3
           2018              22.2               16.9                 24.5
          
    Source: ACT, Inc.

    ~~~~~~~

    Black-White SAT Score Gap by Year:

           Year              White             Black               Gap
           1985              1038               839                 199
           1990              1031               849                 185
           1996              1052               857                 195
           2000              1060               859                 201
           2005              1061               863                 197
           2010              1063               855                 208
           2015              1047               846                 201

    The new SAT introduced in 2017 was “designed to inspire and increase access to college” by creating “a more equitable exam”. The new SAT cannot be compared to previous results:

           Year              White             Black               Gap
           2017              1118               941                 177
           2018              1123               946                 177

    The 2017 “college readiness” scores (ability to earn a C or higher in an entry-level course) showed the stark racial achievement gap; Asians scored 70% college readiness, Whites 59%, and Blacks only 20%.

    (Source: U.S. Dept. of Education, College Board)

    https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=171

    SAT scores are highly correlated to intelligence test scores. The SAT correlates with an IQ test at 0.86, almost the same as an IQ test correlates with itself. For this reason, we can very reliably take SAT scores and convert them to IQ scores.

    Results of psycho-metric IQ and scholastic tests are highly correlated. Rindermann & Thompson (2013, p. 822)

    In the 20 year period from 1994-2014 the Black-White difference increased on both the verbal and math SATs despite targeted efforts to close the race gap. On the reading test, it rose from .91 to .96 standard deviations. On the math test, it rose from .95 to 1.03 standard deviations.

    In fact, the truncated nature of the SAT math score distribution suggests that these race gaps would be even larger given a harder exam with a bigger score variance. Note, for example, how the Black score distribution is cut off at the bottom while the Asian score distribution is cut off at the top. That suggests that a redesigned exam might feature even more pronounced race gaps.

    Percent by Race Reaching the SAT College and Career Readiness Benchmark:

                     15% = Black
                     24% = Non-White Hispanic
                     35% = Native American
                     53% = White
                     56% = Asian

    Source: The College Board, 2014

    PISA scores by race:

                  White             Black               Asian
                  531               433                  525

    Source: National Center for Education Statistics, 2015

    NAEP Report Card: Mathematics

    “In 2019, there were no significant changes in score disparities compared to 2017 across most reported student groups in eighth-grade mathematics, with a few exceptions. For example, among racial/ethnic groups, the average mathematics score at grade 8 for White students was 32 points higher than the average score for their Black peers in 2019 and 24 points higher than the average mathematics score for eighth-grade Hispanic students. The 32-point White–Black score difference in 2019 was not significantly different from the 32-point score difference in 2017, the previous assessment year, nor the 33-point score gap in 1990, the first assessment year.”

    https://www.nationsreportcard.gov/mathematics/nation/groups/?grade=8

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Blacks and Whites with Equal Educational Attainment Differ in Cognitive Ability

    Black and White Americans with the same formal level of education differ significantly in their cognitive abilities. Specifically, within any given level of formal education Whites consistently outperform Blacks. Moreover, this effect is so strong that Blacks often underperform Whites who have lower levels of formal education than they do.

    Consider the following data from the General Social Survey. This public data is frequently used in social science research and contains a test of verbal intelligence as well as measurements of participant’s self-identified race and highest educational degree obtained. Verbal intelligence tests correlate at around .75 with full-scale IQ and so this data can also be taken as a fair measure of intelligence in general (Lynn, 1998). If we set the White mean score on this test to 100 and the standard deviation to 15, we can come up with an “IQ” style scale.

    As can be seen, using this method Blacks with a graduate degree have a level of verbal intelligence indistinguishable from that of Whites with a junior college degree. Blacks with a four-year degree are roughly on par with Whites who never went to college at all.

    IQ BY RACE AND HIGHEST DEGREE EARNED (1972 – 2014):

    Highest Degree                      White IQ               Black IQ               Gap
    High School Drop-out:                 89                         82                      7
    High School Diploma                   98                         90                      8
    Junior College Degree               102                         95                      7
    Bachelor’s Degree                      108                       100                     8
    Graduate Degree                        113                       102                    11
                
    This data is consistent with evidence from the National Adult Literacy Survey (NALS) which administered tests of cognitive ability to 26,000 US adults in 1992. These tests were designed to measure how well people could take information and use it in a way which would help them function in modern society.

    Blacks are such poor academic achievers that the National Achievement Scholarship Program was created with lower standards for Black candidates only, instead of the National Merit Scholarship Program which is open to everyone else.

    THE SMARTEST STUDENTS: The National Merit Scholarship Program was founded to identify and honor scholastically talented American youth and to encourage them to develop their abilities to the fullest.

    BLACK STUDENTS ONLY: The National Achievement Scholarship Program was initiated specifically to identify academically promising Black American youth and encourage their pursuit of higher education.

    They are both measured on the PSAT.

    Minimum score for National Achievement: 190
    Minimum score for National Merit: 220

    Roughly, PSAT x 10 = SAT (out of 2400)

    Bill Gates, after pulling philanthropic funding from Common Core, “When disaggregated by race, we see two Americas. One where White students perform along the lines of the best in the world with achievement comparable to countries like Finland and Korea. And another America, where Black and Latino students perform comparably to the students in the lowest performing OECD countries, such as Chile and Greece.”

    Blacks score so poorly on academic exams that colleges give them 230 “race bonus” SAT points to help them qualify for admission:

    http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-adv-asian-race-tutoring-20150222-story.html

    https://www.princeton.edu/~tje/files/webAdmission%20Preferences%20Espenshade%20Chung%20Walling%20Dec%202004.pdf

    “Personal scores” are the new subterfuge for artificially assisting Blacks gain admission to universities. Asian-American applicants receive a 2 or better on the personal score more than 20% of the time only in the top academic index decile. By contrast, white applicants receive a 2 or better on the personal score more than 20% of the time in the top six deciles. Hispanics receive such personal scores more than 20% of the time in the top seven deciles, and Blacks receive such scores more than 20% of the time in the top eight deciles.

    An otherwise identical applicant bearing an Asian male identity with a 25 percent chance of admission would have a 32 percent chance of admission if he were White, a 77 percent chance of admission if he were Hispanic, and a 95 percent chance of admission if he were Black.

  236. @Chanda Chisala

    Thank you for the clarification. I am not surprised by this finding, It is consistent with the once widely accepted notion that differences in family expectations offer at least a partial explanation for differences in academic achievement.

    Families that value academic achievement, either as a good thing in itself or as a means of social and material advancement, seek to instill these values in their children. This is reflected in more determined and sustained efforts to learn and better academic outcomes.

    Perhaps positive attitudes to education are less prevalent among white working class families than equivalent black families, particularly black families who have experience of more severe disadvantage.

    If so, one might wonder why white working class families no longer value education as they once did.

  237. @J.G.R. Fuerst

    I don’t think point 5 of your argument really works, for two reasons.

    First, if measures of intelligence are valid then they should demonstrate the ability to predict outcomes associated with intelligence, such as academic achievement. This property is called ‘predictive validity’. A measure that cannot demonstrate good predictive validity is unlikely to measure what it is supposed to measure.

    Second, one reason why intelligence is deemed important is the idea that it predicts a range of other important outcomes and that it is a property of individuals that is wholly or partly determined by genetic factors

    Hence, it is perfectly reasonable to use academic achievement as a proxy comparator when exploring hypothesised group differences in intelligence. Or so it seems to me.

    • Replies: @J.G.R. Fuerst
  238. @CanSpeccy

    A reasonable question and I fully accept there are arguments for and against the validity of these reported racial differences in intelligence.

    Due to the complexity of the arguments, I dont think I can do justice to the question within a single post. However, my doubts focus on problems with the predictive validity of measures of intelligence.

    One example that I find implausible is the claim that the true mean intelligence score for populations in sub-Saharan Africa is around 70. As others have pointed out, this equates to a clinical rating of borderline learning disabled. It implies that half of the individuals that comprise these populations fall below this threshold and are suffering from significant degrees of intellectual impairment. I find this implausible because it seems unlikely that any society could continue to function with the levels of intellectual disability implied by such findings.

    Proponents of intelligence tests sometimes argue that African societies are in fact dysfunctional to a degree that makes such findings plausible, but I don’t find this convincing. It overestimates the level of dysfunction in those societies and ignores other obvious causes for the difficulties these societies face. Change is often disruptive as we ourselves should know.

    From a historical perspective, the occupation of the Western Roman Empire by our Germanic ancestors led to a prolonged period of radical economic, political and social disruption. Yet it is these same peoples who provided the core genetic potential that underpinned the Enlightenment and the Industrial Revolution.

    Lack of intelligence is not cited as a reason for the prolonged periods of disruption and conflict seen in the history of Western societies. Why then should it be seen as the prime reason for the episodes of disruption and conflict sometimes seen in modern African societies?

    • Replies: @J.G.R. Fuerst
  239. Realist says:
    @CanSpeccy

    They’re the people who run the country and the globalists own both sides in virtually every political contest.

    The fact remains…the Whites allowed it.

  240. Blip Blop says:

    Why all the discussion of this? This is a joke. These sub-populations are not remotely representative of their parent general populations.

  241. @Realist

    And therein lies the rub. I find that when you exclude the Whites at the lower end of the bell curve who care for nothing more than what the topic of the next Jerry Springer/Jeremy Kyle show will be, the others seem to have been inculcated with this extreme desire for scientific evidence to justify everything, this ranges from GDP growth all the way to the discussion at hand here regarding IQ and Race.

    Ask yourself this, if concrete scientific evidence was found tomorrow which showed that foreign racial groups had the exact same average IQ levels as Whites and that, as an added bonus, that the Holocaust happened exactly as is told by the mainstream, would you really dispose of of your views and just lie back forever more?

    Of course you wouldn’t, you are fighting for your interests, not some high minded scientific ideas, so why waste time going down the path of extreme hair-splitting about whether or not a certain sample of IQ data was misrepresented or whether or not a certain word in a Nazi document was translated correctly into English?

    Ultimately all peoples are at the mercy of a leadership and it is their job to get rid of that leadership when it becomes apparent that they are not acting in the best interests of the group, in the West we are fairly lucky that we can get rid of our useless leaders through democratic means rather than armed revolutions, but this doesn’t happen because the people don’t actually care about the future of their Nation.

    The UK for example voted 3 times in a row for Tony Blair, now mass immigration before 1997 was very much a real thing but on the whole the immigrant and immigrant descended population was not large enough to have any meaningful impact on the election until when Blair won his 3rd election.

    Fat forward to 2010 when the BNP were riding high (relatively speaking), they were getting lots of coverage and even had a slot on the countries political debate show, Question Time, in fact the viewing figures went from the the average of 3 million to 8 million, the BNP leader outlined his concerned for the country regarding mass immigration and foreign wars.

    Despite this the BNP only won just under 2% of the vote, meaning 98% of people don’t care enough. What’s even more shocking that this 2% translated to around 500,000 votes, so out of 8 million viewers, only 500,000 of them cared enough to vote BNP and this is assuming the BNP had zero support before the TV show which of course is a ludicrous proposition.

    Does a nation like this deserve to survive?

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
    , @Realist
  242. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Realist

    The fact remains…the Whites allowed it.

    But if they didn’t allow it, they’d be raaacist, Nazis, Facists, “a basket of deplorables.” And people hate to think of themselves as bad people so they acquiesce in their own genocide. Of course, they don’t think of it as genocide. And anyway, the settler immigrants don’t actually live next door, they’ve occupied the place of the native poor, the slums of the great cities, and the towns and villages in areas of industrial decline. The people there hate mass immigration but what can they do? Vote Tory? And then be cheated by Theresa May and quite likely Boris Johnson too? Or vote for the Commie Corbyn.

    No. For the people to prevent what the elite have decided is not actually possible.

    As Prime Minister Lloyd George said during WW1,

    If the people really knew what was happening, this war would end tomorrow. But the people cannot know.

    Same today. Have a plebiscite in Germany, Britain, wherever and ask if the people wish to be genocided and they will say no. But they’ll be genocided anyway if that’s what the elite intend.

    • Agree: nokangaroos
  243. @CanSpeccy

    At least the elites will preserve the best genes and nothing of value will be lost as the vast majority of whites are useless.

    As AI develops ever more and is able to carry out more complex tasks, there will be no reason to keep the majority of whites around as they consume too much and whine all the time.

    From an elitist perspective, genociding the whites is rational.

    Also, the British public cod have voted BNP in 2010 when the party got huge coverage by the MSM and Nick Griffin came out no to bad from the Question Time debate.

    So let’s not go down the “we woz nevah asked” schtick, you were asked and only 1.9% of tje people who cod be bothered getting off their backsides to vote, voted against mass immigration and replacement.

    And stop using the world “genocide” it was invented by a Jew in 1944 and has no real meaning, it just makes you sound dim as genocide = mass killings in the minds of most people’s and nowhere are white people being mass murderer, not even in South Africa where the white population has GROWN since the end of apartheid.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  244. Realist says:
    @CanSpeccy

    But if they didn’t allow it, they’d be raaacist, Nazis, Facists, “a basket of deplorables.” And people hate to think of themselves as bad people so they acquiesce in their own genocide.

    Only people with low self confidence and low self esteem would allow others to define them.

    And anyway, the settler immigrants don’t actually live next door, they’ve occupied the place of the native poor, the slums of the great cities, and the towns and villages in areas of industrial decline.

    Intelligent people have a sense of trends of the future and have have a broader knowledge on a national scale…not just their little part of the world.

    No. For the people to prevent what the elite have decided is not actually possible.

    Your defeatist attitude is unjustified and sure as hell not helpful…get back under your rock…enough.

  245. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Just passing through

    we are fairly lucky that we can get rid of our useless leaders through democratic means rather than armed revolutions, but this doesn’t happen because the people don’t actually care about the future of their Nation.

    Not really. What was the difference between Phony Bliar and David Cameroon, when it came to mass immigration?

    Cameron said, during the 2010 election campaign that the issue of immigration had to be “gripped.” But he did nothing about it despite polls showing 70% of the population being consistently against mass immigration.

    But Cameron realized that people were against the EU because of open borders, therefore, he held the referendum, not to give people a choice but to shut them up. But the silly bugger miscalculated and the Brexit faction won.

    So what to do? Replace anti-Brexit Cameron with Remainer May who fiddle-diddled around for three years doing nothing to free Britain from the toils of the EU. Now the Brits have Boris with his 599-page exit agreement based on May’s phony formula.

    Fast forward to 2010 when the BNP were riding high (relatively speaking), they were getting lots of coverage and even had a slot on the countries political debate show, Question Time, in fact the viewing figures went from the the average of 3 million to 8 million, the BNP leader outlined his concerned for the country regarding mass immigration and foreign wars.

    Despite this the BNP only won just under 2% of the vote

    The elite always win because they lie, cheat and steal with the full support of the media, the entertainments industry, the educational establishment and even the goddam church. And you think the solution for the Brits opposed to genocide of the nation by mass immigration and suppressed native fertility was to have voted for Nick Griffin’s BNP! LOL.

    You are as much a dupe as the rest of the constantly deceived masses — that, or an agent of disinformation.

    Nick Griffin is a mason. He’s a member of the elite. He hung out with Gladio killers, including one of those responsible for the Bologna railway station bombing that killed 85. He’s a complete fraud who blew up his own party when it was at risk of winning seats in Parliament. He’s like the leadership of all of what the Gruniard calls “far-right-wing extremist” parties: controlled opposition.

    The project for a world empire has been running for over 100 years and we’re seeing now the end game. Want to know more? Read Hobson, on Imperialism (1902), also Carroll Quigley, Tragedy and Hope, and the Anglo-American Establishment. Then come back and tell us that it’s all the people’s fault.

    Maybe you’ll even have a decent idea about developing an effective resistance, though I very much doubt it. But at least you may stop (a) blaming the people for the fact that they are being screwed, and (b) promoting the bastards who are engaged in the screwing.

  246. Realist says:
    @Just passing through

    Ask yourself this, if concrete scientific evidence was found tomorrow which showed that foreign racial groups had the exact same average IQ levels as Whites and that, as an added bonus, that the Holocaust happened exactly as is told by the mainstream, would you really dispose of of your views and just lie back forever more?

    Puting the Holocaust aside ( I don’t give a crap about the Holocaust). There are concrete studies that show a large difference in average IQs across the races currently. So your question is moot. The are a number of other trait differences between the races that make a diverse racial population troublesome.

    Ultimately all peoples are at the mercy of a leadership and it is their job to get rid of that leadership when it becomes apparent that they are not acting in the best interests of the group, in the West we are fairly lucky that we can get rid of our useless leaders through democratic means rather than armed revolutions, but this doesn’t happen because the people don’t actually care about the future of their Nation.

    Is this supposed to be humour? In the first place we don’t live in a democracy. And the rare times we get rid of our useless leaders they are replaced by other useless leaders.
    The Deep State doesn’t care about the unimportant internecine squabbles of the ‘two parties’ as long as their important issues are maintained. As a matter of fact it strengthens the false perception that there is a choice when voting.

    Furthermore I am not a fan of democracy. Letting idiots vote is not a smart proposition…other founding fathers set up a crude form of meritocracy and a meritocracy is my preference.

    • Agree: CanSpeccy
  247. Peter Frost says: • Website
    @Chanda Chisala

    Chanda,

    A sample size of 400 is not “tiny.” Is that the size of each language group? Could you provide me with the numbers of Igbo and Yoruba for the years 2009 to 2011?

    Let’s be clear: Igbo people have high cognitive ability. I don’t dispute that. However, smart people do well not only because of merit but also because they are better at manipulating the system. If you do a Google search for “Igbo + exam malpractice,” you’ll find a lot of interesting results, including this study:

    This study is designed to examine cheating tendency among secondary school students in Nigeria, with evidence from schools in the Odukpani Local Government Area of Cross River State. A total of 331 respondents in Senior Secondary 3 classes were randomly selected from 10 post-primary schools in the area. A survey questionnaire was used to elicit information on cheating tendency, the level of supervision, forms of cheating behaviour, and gender influence on cheating tendency. The data were analysed using percentages and chisquare statistics to highlight mean differences with respect to the identified variables. The results revealed some levels of statistically significant differences in respect of cheating tendencies on the identified variables. Based on these findings, it is recommended that an ethical reorientation programme, combined with the implementation of a stiff penalty, will reduce cheating tendency in all levels of the Nigerian educational system.

    http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.1030.3426&rep=rep1&type=pdf

    We see this in real life. Smart people can use their intelligence to build a better mousetrap or to con people into buying useless mousetraps.

    On another point, you seem to be making contradictory arguments. On the one hand, you say that the data from 2009 to 2011 are unreliable because of small sample sizes. On the other hand, you use the same data as a point of comparison to indicate academic improvement by non-Igbo. In addition, if we discard the 2009-2011 data, how do you know that the current data are reliable? Because the samples are now big enough? Is that your argument? You seem to be assuming what you hope to prove.

  248. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Just passing through

    At least the elites will preserve the best genes and nothing of value will be lost as the vast majority of whites are useless

    But exterminate my posterity. Oh great. Thanks a lot.

    As AI develops ever more and is able to carry out more complex tasks, there will be no reason to keep the majority of whites around as they consume too much and whine all the time.

    Just what the elites have been saying. But why do you expect me to accept their judgment on my posterity. Go fuck yourself, you complete ass hole.

    Also, the British public cod have voted BNP in 2010 when the party got huge coverage by the MSM and Nick Griffin came out no to bad from the Question Time debate.

    So let’s not go down the “we woz nevah asked” schtick, you were asked and only 1.9% of tje people who cod be bothered getting off their backsides to vote, voted against mass immigration and replacement.

    Let me repeat what I said to that other disinfo artist or total naif:

    Nick Griffin is a mason. He hangs out with members of Gladio, including one of those responsible for the Bologna Station bombing that killed 85 people. And during the 2010 election Griffin deliberately blew up his own party. Only a fool or a liar will deny that.

    And stop using the world “genocide” it was invented by a Jew in 1944 and has no real meaning, it just makes you sound dim as genocide = mass killings in the minds of most people’s and nowhere are white people being mass murderer, not even in South Africa where the white population has GROWN since the end of apartheid.

    Stop being an arse hole. The term “genocide” was coined by Raphael Lemkin who wrote:

    The crime of the [German Nazi] Reich in wantonly and deliberately wiping out whole peoples is not utterly new in the world. It is only new in the civilized world as we have come to think of it. It is so new in the traditions of civilized man that he has no name for it.

    It is for this reason that I took the liberty of inventing the word, “genocide.” The term is from the Greek word genes meaning tribe or race and the Latin cide meaning killing. Genocide tragically enough must take its place in the dictionary of the future beside other tragic words like homicide and infanticide. As Von Rundstedt has suggested the term does not necessarily signify mass killings although it may mean that.

    More often it refers to a coordinated plan aimed at destruction of the essential foundations of the life of national groups so that these groups wither and die like plants that have suffered a blight. The end may be accomplished by the forced disintegration of political and social institutions, of the culture of the people, of their language, their national feelings and their religion. It may be accomplished by wiping out all basis of personal security, liberty, health and dignity. When these means fail the machine gun can always be utilized as a last resort. Genocide is directed against a national group as an entity and the attack on individuals is only secondary to the annihilation of the national group to which they belong.

    • Replies: @Just passing through
  249. @Julian of Norwich

    “Hence, it is perfectly reasonable to use academic achievement as a proxy comparator when exploring hypothesised group differences in intelligence. Or so it seems to me.”

    You and Chanda are missing the point. Yes, in general you can use criterion like SES or educational attainment or whatever as indexes of intelligence. However, in specific cases, there can be moderating factors. Some individuals and groups thereof will have e.g., educational quotients which are not commensurate with intelligence scores, perhaps because they are more conscientious or motivated or whatever.

    I can give you a specific example. I have test data from Hinton and Higson (2017):

    Table 35. Exam, Coursework, and Oral Presentation scores, along with GCSE Qualification by ethnic group for a 12-year cohort at a UK university.


    N ExamQ N CourseworkQ N OralQ N GCSEQ
    White 11737 100.00 12333 100.00 7609 100.00 8328 100.
    Black 1820 93.09 1868 96.19 1074 96.55 1326 107.30
    Caribbean 335 91.12 335 94.70 219 96.91 256 96.52
    African 1322 93.67 1365 96.51 763 96.37 952 109.61
    ….

    This is 12-year data from a prominent UK university (2000-2012). I converted the scores into quotient ones, set relative to a white mean of 100.

    As Chanda has noted, Whites may be over selected so the mean differences in the exam scores — seemingly the best index of cognitive ability here — may not be representative. However, notice the difference within groups between indicators: Exam, Coursework, Oral, & GCSE.

    For Africans there is a 17 point discrepancy between university test scores and GCSE obtained prior to joining the university! You can check the data yourself. The data file is in the suppl:

    Hinton, D. P., & Higson, H. (2017). A large-scale examination of the effectiveness of anonymous marking in reducing group performance differences in higher education assessment. PloS one, 12(8), e0182711

    If Chanda just saw the GCSE, he would say: look this completely debunks you.
    And if I pointed out that, while, in general, the educational attainment will correlate with the predictor, there can be exceptions, so it is not absolutely clear, then Chanda would say: Ha, you refute yourself.

    But I don’t. This happens all the time. James Flynn, for example, wrote a book on how Asian Americans did much better educationally than IQs would predict, despite a population correlation of .7 between IQ and educational attainment.

    Flynn, J. R. (1991). Asian Americans: achievement beyond IQ. Psychology Press.

    Now, ordinally we probably would not go digging, as Chanda chides, for more data. But he is trying to falsify an hitherto explanatory potent hypothesis, without provide an alternative, using “hard falsification”. As such, further inquiry is warranted.

  250. @CanSpeccy

    But exterminate my posterity. Oh great. Thanks a lot.

    Just what the elites have been saying. But why do you expect me to accept their judgment on my posterity. Go fuck yourself, you complete ass hole.

    Of course you would feel that way in the interests of self-preservation, I am merely outlying the thinking of the elites, and why this line of thinking is rational.

    Let me repeat what I said to that other disinfo artist or total naif:

    Nick Griffin is a mason. He hangs out with members of Gladio, including one of those responsible for the Bologna Station bombing that killed 85 people. And during the 2010 election Griffin deliberately blew up his own party. Only a fool or a liar will deny that.

    I have no interest in the ins and outs of Nick Griffin, what I do know is that he was very much an ethnic nationalists and made this position very clear to the public, the public were essentially asked wehther or not they want replacement level immigration to which they said yes, as 98% of them voted for parties other than the BNP. Was Griffin a Mason and secretely in bed with Zionists/Illuminati/New World Order? Perhaps, but what is being discussed here is the what the public thought of him and quite clearly the public didn’t like what he had to say.

    Genocide has no real meaning and is hard to define, unless mass killings are taking place, no one will seriously believe it is a genocide the same way very few serious people actually believe what China is doing in Tibet is genocide. Of course some people refer to it as such, mainly left-wing activists, but they are essentially trading credibility for shock-factor and rhetoric. I would very happily accept the thesis of “The Great Replacement” but White Genocide is a laughable term as Whites are one of the largest racial groups in the world and there are still many White countries who are not taking in huge number of immigrants.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  251. @Julian of Norwich

    “However, my doubts focus on problems with the predictive validity of measures of intelligence.
    One example that I find implausible is the claim that the true mean intelligence score for populations in sub-Saharan Africa is around 70. As others have pointed out, this equates to a clinical rating of borderline learning disabled. It implies that half of the individuals that comprise these populations fall below this threshold and are suffering from significant degrees of intellectual impairment. I find this implausible because it seems unlikely that any society could continue to function with the levels of intellectual disability implied by such findings.”

    The idea that national IQ differences had the same meaning as individual level ones was plausible in the mid 2000’s. However, numerous tests of invariance have showed that this isn’t the case.

    Here were results from a colleague’s graduate student:

    Study 8: Spearman’s hypothesis tested between countries

    “In this study we looked at the intelligence differences between countries, to see if these could be attributed to differences in general intelligence. In our initial analysis we did not find a substantial average correlation of the correlation between d and g for all countries compared to all lower scoring countries; the average r was only .04. Since it is possible that comparing countries that are too similar in general intelligence leads to low correlations, we also split up the countries into a high- and low-scoring group. The average correlations of these two groups doubled the correlation to .08, but this is still substantially below the criterion score we set for confirming Spearman’s hypothesis. This low correlation makes it quite clear that the score pattern between countries are not Jensen effects. The differences we find between countries are more likely to be caused by differences in education, social-economic status, and environmental factors. Therefore Spearman’s hypothesis is not confirmed between countries”
    http://www.scriptiesonline.uba.uva.nl/document/606543

    Yet, the difference between specific racial groups like Africans and Europeans in American have been found to by psychometrically comparable to differences between individuals within groups. As between some nations. Measures of intelligence, in general, are not the problem. It is just that in some instances there is psychometric bias. This, though, can be thoroughly investigated statistically.

    Unfortunately, quite a few people — both IQists and anti-IQists — elide the distinction between measured and latent score differences, often for rhetorical purposes. So, yes, African have a mean measured IQ (score) of around 70. However, the national differences do not have the same meaning as those between individuals within a given population or between certain racial groups within certain countries.

    • Replies: @Julian of Norwich
  252. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Just passing through

    Genocide has no real meaning and is hard to define

    Hard for a moron who can’t spell, even when they’ve been given the precise definition by the coiner of the term.

    • Replies: @Just passing through
  253. @Anne Lid

    “The data is not reflecting reality.”

    I’ve been interested for a few years in why London schools have gone from underperforming (explicable by the demography of the school) to overperforming.

    One possible answer – search online for “London academy cheating”. The change in results approximately coincides with the removal of many schools from local authority control to independent “academies”, ripe for looting by acquisitive head “teachers”, but also ripe for corruption of other sorts.

    At this school both looting (apparently legal, no one’s been prosecuted) and cheating went on.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-47670746

    Mrs Barham says she was ordered to cheat by the trust’s chief executive, Patricia Davies, and agreed to do it because she was afraid of losing her job.

    She says she was also ordered to cheat on a Sats reading exam.

    “Mrs Davies called me into her office, and it’s a reading paper, so you can’t read it to them, and she said, ‘I want you to read it for them’.

    “I said, ‘but it’s a reading test.’ She went, ‘yes, I know’.

    “You did what Pat told you to do, otherwise, you knew you wouldn’t have a job, and so I read that paper.”

    Panorama has also spoken to parents at Longshaw, who complained about the cheating.

    Mum Kelly Brett was waiting at the school gate when the children came out talking about how they had been helped to pass the test.

    “The boys were quite vocal, as they thought it was funny, they thought it was hilarious: ‘We cheated, we cheated, they let us cheat’.

    “They were skipping up the hill screaming it out.”

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
  254. @Chanda Chisala

    “’m afraid that doesn’t help the case for the British whites too much. From Strand’s report:”

    I might.

    It wouldn’t be suprising if the parents of the upper 30th cognitive percentile of recent African migrants to the UK were often poorer than the parents of the lower 30th cognitive percentile of White British — simply owing to the fact that they were recent emigrants from very poor countries. I have seen this with Russian Jewish immigrants who I went to post-Bacculaeate school with.

    The point would be that the Whites in the area are congenitally less intelligent than the average White (as judged by low SES realtive to the UK White mean) while the new Black immigrants in the area are congenitally more intelligent than the average Black African (as judged by SES relative to the very low native African mean).

    • Replies: @Chanda Chisala
  255. @EliteCommInc.

    “And you are wrong, the hypothesis states the reason for the higher test score is white genes —- Its the cause at issue not merely the observation of difference. the article makes clear when environments are and circumstances are similarly matched the results don’t appear to be that whites have any innate superior cognitive ability in this battery of measures.”

    Except it is only Nigerians, a tiny subset of Africans, which are preforming well. You are trying to conflate all Africans test scores with a tiny minority, so you yourself are not adhering to the data, while you accuse others of doing the same. I mean it seems kinda obvious that was the point of this article and the deceptive headline which claims “black students” when in reality it is only one small group.

    Why should anyone care about the “why”? Do you think whites owe it to blacks to pamper them and provide a better environment than they are able to provide for themselves? Because I’m pretty sure we tried to do that with colonization.

  256. @CanSpeccy

    The guy who defined it was a Jewish fella so tha tells you all you really need to know, the wording of his definition is ambigious.

    More often it refers to a coordinated plan aimed at destruction of the essential foundations of the life of national groups so that these groups wither and die like plants that have suffered a blight. The end may be accomplished by the forced disintegration of political and social institutions, of the culture of the people, of their language, their national feelings and their religion. It may be accomplished by wiping out all basis of personal security, liberty, health and dignity. When these means fail the machine gun can always be utilized as a last resort. Genocide is directed against a national group as an entity and the attack on individuals is only secondary to the annihilation of the national group to which they belong.

    What examples can you give that someone has “forced disintegration of political and social institutions, of the culture of the people, of their language, their national feelings and their religion.”?

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  257. @YetAnotherAnon

    I should say, before m’learned friends are involved, the looting took place earlier, at another academy, which at the time was under the same head.

    https://www.localschoolsnetwork.org.uk/2014/10/the-academy-head-the-4500-desk-and-the-170k-salary

    ” At one London academy trust, consisting of two primary schools, the Head is now paid £170,000, the ICT support contract has been given to the Chair of Governor’s company and the furniture spend includes almost £4,500 on a desk and £5,000 on a conference table.”

  258. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Just passing through

    What examples can you give that someone has “forced disintegration of political and social institutions, of the culture of the people, of their language, their national feelings and their religion.”?

    You don’t follow the news, or what?

    And if you know what’s happening, then your comment is disingenuous and you know full well Tony Blair’s intention when opening Britain to a massive alien influx, namely,

    “to rub the noses of the right in multiculturalism.”

    There could be no clearer evidence of a deliberate policy to force:

    “the disintegration of political and social institutions, the culture of the people, their language, their national feelings and their religion.”

    • Agree: mikemikev
  259. Anon[112] • Disclaimer says:

    I agree that Chanda has eviscerated the arguments of these popular race-IQ ideologues. I have always despaired over the fact that the majority of white advocates are right-wingers who insist on tying the advancement of white interests and the resistance of white genocide to race-IQ hierarchies.

    I have always felt that IQ is greatly environmental. In fact, most experts feel this way, too. If it is 40% environmental, that is plenty of wiggle room for “culture” or morale to determine the racial gaps.

    Nevertheless, I can advance the argument of the race-IQ ideologues for them, in the spirit of intellectual inquiry.

    The first thing to do, is to get rid of the silly “regression to the mean” idea. The concept of “regression” is found throughout statistics, and, hilariously, it is a concept that is almost always mis-attributed. Do you know of linear regression? There is no regression in a linear regression, it is a misnomer (you can look it up, I am not making this up). Maybe you could say there is regression in things like autocorrelated time series.

    Regression to the mean is probably just another silly example of this. And if you think about genetic causes of IQ, it would not even make sense from the standpoint of genetic causation. Does height “regress to the mean?” Of course not. It is another mis-attribution, meant to force-fit the obviously environmental issue of black Americans underachieving relative to what one would expect from their parents’ achievements.

    The second task would be to reject the silly idea that there cannot be a society where black people do not significantly underperform relative to whites. I’d guess that this was said in a spirit of extreme zeal, and was probably not one of Richard Lynn’s finest moment.

    The third would be to argue that the immigrants to the UK are especially high-IQ, given that UK immigration policy (minus refugee policies) is meant to take immigrants who are very well “put together,” being professionals picked on a point system (a kind of Tier 2 Visa), “exceptional talents” (one kind of Tier 1 Visa), investors under the investor visa (one kind of Tier 1 Visa for people who are loaded), or entrepreneurs (one kind of Tier 1 Visa), etc.

    There was, for some short time, an ability to just apply for a “General” Tier 1 Visa, but that got nipped pretty fast.

    Basically, you do not get into the UK unless you are a man with a plan, or a family member of one. The losers get temporary Tier 5 Visas, and they can’t stay long enough to raise children in the UK. Students get temporary Tier 4 Visas, once again, they need a better Visa to stay and have babies.

    Athletes and Ministers (Imams) can get Tier 2 Visas, however.

    I have been trying to see if I can immigrate to the UK, and am having a rather hard time. I don’t know if it is easier for Nigerians or Jamaicans than it is for Americans, it might be, but it is hard for me.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  260. Realist says:
    @saneworldnow

    I agree with what you say, but the problems faced by the vast majority of US citizens will not be ameliorated through the electoral process.

  261. Realist says:
    @RobbieSmith

    Thanks for the extensive information on the subject…with citations.

  262. A sample size of 400 is not “tiny.” Is that the size of each language group?

    No. It’s tiny (actually 411) because it is the total for all those African tribe groups combined. The Igbo were just 4 percent of that number. So, around 16 kids. Again: not a national sample, but an analysis of some local school area (Lambeth). Yoruba were larger at 22%. The paper had very different purposes than my purposes obviously.

    Check this source paper, pages 7-9:
    https://www.lambeth.gov.uk/rsu/sites/lambeth.gov.uk.rsu/files/Raising_the_Achievement_of_Black_African_Pupils-Good_Practice_in_Schools_2013.pdf

    Let’s be clear: Igbo people have high cognitive ability. I don’t dispute that. However, smart people do well not only because of merit but also because they are better at manipulating the system.

    I’m not here to argue whether the Igbo have some corrupt individuals among them or not, so I’m not sure what you’re responding to. The common form of cheating in many poor African countries is simple: ‘leakages.’ You find the same thing in China and some other Asian countries, etc. And no, it is actually not the smart ones who are eager to cheat (at least in Africa), it is the ones most likely to fail the test. (That’s probably true even in the US, as some recent reports have shown).

    But again: to say all the thousands of Africans now outperforming whites on GCSEs and SATs is because of cheating is beyond silly. You think all their teachers would not by now have noticed a huge disconnect between their performance in class and their results on the tests? (I can’t believe we’re still discussing this. For goodness’ sake, this high African performance in the UK is already evident even in 5 year old African children in the UK — are they cheating too?).

    On another point, you seem to be making contradictory arguments. On the one hand, you say that the data from 2009 to 2011 are unreliable because of small sample sizes. On the other hand, you use the same data as a point of comparison to indicate academic improvement by non-Igbo. In addition, if we discard the 2009-2011 data, how do you know that the current data are reliable? Because the samples are now big enough? Is that your argument? You seem to be assuming what you hope to prove.

    You misunderstood.

    Firstly, I did not say the data in 2009 to 2011 is “unreliable.” I said there is a “problem” with small samples (just in that table) that caused the wide fluctuations from year to year in some of those groups. Because I still believed the trends in the data was “reliable” for my actual point (showing the long existence of some African ethnic groups that perform quite well), I also looked for data that was NATIONAL and therefore much bigger, and indeed that data confirmed MY POINT for presenting that original data in the first place. To acknowledge that one’s sample is quite small is not to acknowledge that the evidence it presents is necessarily false or fundamentally unreliable. You can acknowledge a weakness with your sample while still believing it aligns with your intuition (or experience) and then proceed to bolster it with effectively unassailable data.

    And no, my point was NOT to show that other “non-Igbo” ethnicities were improving, but precisely to show that their performances can be so different that it does not make sense to lump them together into “Black African” when you want to get analyze “black” performance. The different African nationalities perform differently (in the UK), and further, the different ethnic groups within those nations can sometimes perform differently too. The point of the argument was that if the large IQ gap (between Africa and Europe) is about “race” (and its evolution), you should not find so many black ethnicities that outperform whites (*since they are black too*). They don’t have to ALL always perform at the level of whites for the race hypothesis to be put into question. In short, it’s like presenting data that shows that if you break down “whites” into separate sub-ethicities, you can find many who run much faster than Ethiopians in long distance races, particularly when they migrate to Ethiopia and live there for a relatively long time, eating the same food that Ethiopians eat!

    The fact that many of these African ethnicities eventually start equaling or outperforming whites just makes the point even stronger, and points to strong environmental causes in that original gap. I sought larger samples to demonstrate this point more forcefully and to remove the valid small sample objections, which professor Strand of Oxford provided in his paper. If you want to argue on the reliability of his (ethnic) data, take it up with him. (His data is official UK government data from the National Pupil Database: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Pupil_Database ).

    Here is Strand paper again:
    https://ore.exeter.ac.uk/repository/bitstream/handle/10871/23323/EAL_and_educational_achievement2.pdf?sequence=1

    Anyway, finally: can I also ask you two questions? Do you have any reason to still believe, given the small Igbo fraction of African pupils, that their performance is an overwhelming or even significant explanation for this general “impressive” African performance? If not, are you going to publicly correct this idea that you’ve blogged on so many times?

    Thank you for the discussion.

    • Replies: @Peter Frost
  263. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Anon

    I have always despaired over the fact that the majority of white advocates are right-wingers who insist on tying the advancement of white interests and the resistance of white genocide to race-IQ hierarchies.

    I think it is just desperation. People do not want their communities to be overwhelmed by people of an alien race, religion, or culture, and so they latch onto the alleged mental inferiority of immigrants as a justification for their hostility.

    The middle class, who for the most part live well separated from the immigrant masses, feel differently. The only Africans they are likely to have to deal with are those they meet in the course of their professional life. These Africans they find to be perfectly normal, generally decent, intelligent people, and so they extend to them an attitude of hospitality that is natural to most people in most place dealing with unthreatening strangers.

    Thus, in Britain, the Lib-Dems, the prototypical BBC-listening, Guardian-reading, public-payroll bureaucrat, educator, healthcare worker, etc., are absolutely for continued mass migration.

    What these people fail to realize is that vast numbers of immigrants have formed settler enclaves where English is not the language spoken at home, where Islam is, to use their words, “the Answer” whereas “Europe is the Cancer.”

    The foolish middle class liberal is also oblivious of the demographic transition resulting from an indigenous fertility far below replacement while women from Libya, for example, maintain a fertility rate several times replacement. So when these complacent fools call the opponents of immigration racists, Nazis, etc., they are in fact, calling for the genocide of their own nation, and calling opposition to genocide racism.

  264. @RobbieSmith

    I’m pretty sure the person you are responding to was asking (me) about African immigrants, not blacks per se.

    This research was done by someone within these comments, a hereditarian scholar named J. G. Fuerst.

    This statement in his conclusion is all you need on what he found:

    Let us, for the sake of conjecture, suppose that these NAS based estimates are not so far off. If so, why do African Blacks do so well? And why do Nigerians apparently do no less well than Whites?

    Source:

    https://humanvarieties.org/2015/10/28/using-surnames-to-assess-ethnic-aptitude/

  265. Let us, for the sake of conjecture, suppose that these NAS based estimates are not so far off. If so, why do African Blacks do so well? And why do Nigerians apparently do no less well than Whites?

    Just like in the US, blacks cheat.

    • Agree: Dannyboy
    • Replies: @Dannyboy
  266. @Peter Frost

    The impressive academic performance of African migrants in the UK

    LOL

  267. @J.G.R. Fuerst

    I don’t want to prolong our discussion unnecessarily, but two questions arise:

    1. So individual test scores must be interpreted according to the respondent’s social, educational and environmental context? Thus, in low income countries a score of say 70 doesn’t indicate borderline learing disabilty, but in high income countries it does?
    2. If differences in social, educational and enviromental factors were addressed by continuing economic and social development, African nations would demonstrate mean intelligence scores equivalent to those of high income countries?

    Apologies for testing your patience with what must be naive reflections on a complex issue.

  268. @J.G.R. Fuerst

    Yes, that’s fine.

    The problem, which no one ever really addresses, is that for high income black Americans, their children still score below poor whites, as Jensen found and as has been apparently confirmed in more recent data already discussed in my earlier articles.


    The Jensenian explanation is that they come from IQ 85, so regression towards that mean.

    So, again the problem for the (globalized) Jensenian side is this: show why this does not happen to African migrants’ children (to US or UK) even if we assume they would have been higher income if African economic conditions had been like their host country.

    (One doesn’t really need to know anything else for them to see why much of this is obviously ridiculous.)

  269. eah says:
    @Hang All Text Drivers

    One should note the difference between grading, which is always both objective and subjective, and where standards definitely vary, often greatly, between schools, and (supposedly unmanipulated) scores on standardized tests — still …

    As Colleges Move To Do Away With The SAT In The Name Of Diversity, Detroit High School Valedictorian Struggles With Low-Level Math

    ‘I just have to work hard for it.’ As Detroit students settle into their first semester of college, these programs provide needed support

    Marqell McClendon has struggled in the low-level math class she’s taking during her first semester at Michigan State University. …

    It’s an unfamiliar scene for McClendon, the valedictorian of her graduating class at Detroit’s Cody High School …

  270. @Chanda Chisala

    So there were 91 Yoruba kids for each of those years. That is a robust sample size. Let’s go back to the Yoruba GCSE results:

    2009: Yoruba – 39%
    2010: Yoruba – 68%
    2011: Yoruba – 75%

    Those year-to-year changes cannot be due to sampling error. If you don’t believe me, ask a statistician. If those changes are real, they cannot reflect real changes in IQ, let alone the genetic component of IQ.

    Therefore, the GCSE results cannot be used as a proxy for the genetic component of IQ. Therefore, your argument tails. Your entire argument rests on that one premise.

    It is irrelevant whether those year-to-year changes are due to cheating or to legitimate forms of “assistance.” I used to work as a tutor, and I know what goes on. The tutor is asked to “look over” a child’s assignment. He makes various corrections and various suggestions, and voila! a B- is transformed into an A+.

    In my humble opinion, all of the West African results are inflated by various forms of “assistance.” Whether such assistance is legal or illegal is irrelevant. The GCSE scores no longer track the genetic component of cognitive ability. This is what happens when people move from a low-trust society to a high-trust society, like the UK. The United Kingdom is a gold mine for immigrants because it is full of underexploited opportunities for certain behaviors that are considered disreputable by the native population.

  271. “Except it is only Nigerians, a tiny subset of Africans, which are preforming well. You are trying to conflate all Africans test scores with a tiny minority, so you yourself are not adhering to the data, while you accuse others of doing the same. I mean it seems kinda obvious that was the point of this article and the deceptive headline which claims “black students” when in reality it is only one small group.”

    Oy.

    As I said, one can widdle the matter down into more manageable rhetorical constraints, as response. That a narrower interpretation is required. But before moving forward, it has been the traditional argument

    as in

    “Whites score better because of their genetics”

    who resisted all attempts to contextualize that assumption, the tests methods and conclusions. Now that the bubble is burst your complaint is,

    “Uhhh, but that’s just a small sampling and not only that, the suggestion that Nigerians aren’t really black.”

    Slice that orange anyway you like. In my view, the author makes the case that the traditional argument is simply unsustainable. Now if you want to contend that only this group of blacks or that group of blacks does this or that, fine. The take away is that environment and circumstance are key in cognitive learning and development.

    And I appreciate the references to Dr. Sowell, in this case. Who was once a darling of white statisticians until he contradicted or challenged the conclusions regarding IQ testing. And he did so with some very basic observations, that IQ scores could be raised simply be changing environments or circumstances —

    ————————————

    I have to say, it’s a strange community that talks about IQ and genetics when no code for intelligence yet has been found. It remains a cart before the horse gambit.

    • Replies: @res
  272. res says:
    @Chanda Chisala

    The Jensenian explanation is that they come from IQ 85, so regression towards that mean.

    Other possible (partial, I think yours is the primary in the US) explanations.

    1. Affirmative action in the US increases average black income at a given IQ level.
    2. I believe high income blacks in the US are (relatively to whites) concentrated in fields like sports and entertainment. I have been unable to find good data on this though.

    I don’t think the first explanation applies to the UK. Less sure about the second.

    Both of those points call into question the assumption that equivalent income implies roughly equivalent parental IQ (between groups). I think that graphic is better suited for showing that SES is not determinative for IQ/SAT score and that the racial gap persists across income levels.

    So, again the problem for the (globalized) Jensenian side is this: show why this does not happen to African migrants’ children (to US or UK) even if we assume they would have been higher income if African economic conditions had been like their host country.

    First, do you have any evidence showing this is true in the US? I believe the only evidence you have presented concerns the UK. I would be very interested in seeing a graphic showing average SAT scores for African immigrants to the US (and subgroups) by income level.

    Second, is your UK data actually apples to apples with this? How would controlling for income affect the comparisons you gave in your original post above? In addition there is the difference between an average score and the percentage meeting a threshold.

    Perhaps you could clarify what you are arguing for in that (quoted) comment? Most of this thread is about the raw difference in percentage achieving 5 A*-C including English and maths between Nigerians and white British/English and how you believe that calls into question the race-genetic IQ link.

    P.S. Here is a detailed document on GCSE achievement from 2014. This is a longitudinal study (N = 2763).
    Unfortunately it does not resolve groups any further than “Black African heritage” and “Black Caribbean heritage”.
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/373286/RR352_-_Influences_on_Students_GCSE_Attainment_and_Progress_at_Age_16.pdf
    Any idea if it is based on the same raw data as your table? How many studies like this are out there?

    Table A2.1 on page 127 is perhaps most useful. For one thing it gives an idea of the overall average percentage achieving 5 A*-C including English and maths (56.3%). This would roughly be the 0 point of your graphic.

    The thing that most struck me in that graphic is how important the “Early Years home learning environment (HLE) Index” was. % passing ranged from 36.3-81.3 in the lowest and highest groups. This is comparable to the ranges seen for Mother’s/Father’s qualification level and salary.

    Appendix 4 includes a number of interesting regression models. Tables A4.11 and A4.12 look most relevant to this conversation.

  273. res says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    I have to say, it’s a strange community that talks about IQ and genetics when no code for intelligence yet has been found. It remains a cart before the horse gambit.

    I guess you don’t understand how science works. A big part of science is making observations and then trying to develop theories which explain them (and then using those theories to make predictions which can be used as a check). For the genetics of intelligence the chain of reasoning goes something like:

    I1. Individual differences in IQ exist.
    I2. Genetics has been demonstrated to be correlated with those differences and individual contributory SNPs appear to have been found. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41588-018-0147-3
    I3. Intelligence SNPs have been looked at in the context of functional areas showing their significant association with brain functioning: https://www.unz.com/jthompson/even-more-genes-for-intelligence/

    Clearly much work needs to be done on I2 and I3 to achieve a more complete explanation, but it is very much worth talking about what we have learned so far. It seems like what you are asking for would be:
    I4. Identifying specific functional effects on IQ for individual IQ SNPs.

    And for group differences in intelligence.

    G1. Phenotypic differences in average group IQ exist.
    G2. Group differences in Intelligence (or Educational Achievement as a proxy) SNP frequencies exist and appear to be correlated with group IQ: http://www.unz.com/jthompson/piffer-kicks-against-the-pricks/

    After doing the work on understanding individual differences hopefully we will also gain a better understanding of the average functional differences (e.g brain size) between groups.

  274. CanSpeccy says: • Website

    According to the latest PISA assessment:

    students in Beijing-Shanghai-Jiangsu-Zhejiang (B-S-J-Z) performed near four grade levels ahead of US students in mathematics

    Indicating that it is time to stop obsessing about supposed black mental inferiority and attending to white mental inferiority.

    In particular, it is time to stop obsessing about racial differences in genetic potential and recognize that it is culture, as the Flynn effect proves with respect to IQ, that is critical.

    In the last 50 years China has undergone a rightward cultural transformation that has put that country on track to dominate the world. In the meantime, the US has undergone a leftward counter-religious, degradation of culture that has reduced a substantial proportion of the population to the edge of mental retardation, while America’s moral, political, financial and military standing has plunged.

  275. This is welcome news. But note that American blacks might be a bit below African blacks due to selection by physical hardiness for many years — which could also explain black dominance of the more strenuous sports.
    I suspect Jewish superiority reflects Jewish mating practices. Jewish girls are more impressed by a big IQ than broad shoulders and so are their parents.
    If so, the moral is that any differences between races in genetically inherited IQ are malleable. If inner city blacks began choosing mates like suburban Jews, their mean IQs would float upwards to match. So the difference is not an essential attribute, to use Aristotelian lingo, but an accident.

  276. @Peter Frost

    Why do you say ‘all of the West African results are inflated by various forms of ‘assistance”? Do you have experience of timed math test results being falsified?

  277. @Chanda Chisala

    Why couldn’t American blacks be somewhat behind African blacks owing to the effect of slavery on reproductive fitness ie rewarding brawn over brains?

    • Replies: @jack daniels
  278. @Peter Frost

    Firstly, I notice that you have completely avoided my last question to you. Either you don’t see there’s any problem with misleading people or you honestly can’t see that it’s illogical. Here is my question(s) again:

    Do you have any reason to still believe, given the small Igbo fraction of African pupils, that their performance is an overwhelming or even significant explanation for this general “impressive” African performance? If not, are you going to publicly correct this idea that you’ve blogged on so many times?

    And now you say:

    So there were 91 Yoruba kids for each of those years. That is a robust sample size.

    No, we do not know how many were *in each of those years.* Neither was this a *longitudinal* report.

    I gave you the link so that you could see the data for yourself before reinforcing your strange notions to yourself. And before you go out to blog about your new “theory.”

    In my humble opinion, all of the West African results are inflated by various forms of “assistance.” Whether such assistance is legal or illegal is irrelevant. The GCSE scores no longer track the genetic component of cognitive ability. This is what happens when people move from a low-trust society to a high-trust society, like the UK. The United Kingdom is a gold mine for immigrants because it is full of underexploited opportunities for certain behaviors that are considered disreputable by the native population.

    Since you’re apparently intent on taking your new inane theory seriously, I will ask again:

    1. do you believe they are cheating (legally or illegally or whatever) even at the 5-7 year old level? They’ve found a way of gaming the system so that their little children look like they are learning to read and do basic math better than expected by HBDers?

    2. do you believe they’ve also found a way of gaming the SAT system in the US? So there are also “underexploited opportunities” for the crooked Africans that the honest people of the US have been unwilling to exploit? Or does something else in HBD’s rich arsenal of creative anthropological theories explain their rather similar performance there?

    3. If you passed your high school tests through gaming the system, you should find A-levels and university extremely challenging, no? Do you believe they also game the A-level system and the university test score system both in the UK and the US or you believe they suddenly fail these tests at levels that reflect their “true” IQ? (And the LSATs etc?)

    4. And you believe that their teachers and fellow pupils have noticed a huge disconnect between their normal performance in class and their final GCSE/SAT scores but none of them have said anything? Or maybe these teachers and friends have really never noticed (after so many years) that the Yoruba kids who couldn’t answer any question correctly in class just got the best results on the GCSEs?

    Like I said, I can’t believe I’m even engaging on this bizarre tangent. I have to respectfully resign now. Thanks.

    • Replies: @Peter Frost
  279. Calvin M says:

    1. Biased sample: African migrants represent to a significant degree, African intellectual elites.

    2. Testing bias: Academia is overwhelmingly liberal and negrophillic (woke Guardian readers) who grade African names up. Blacks do worse in anonymous testing.

    3. Maturation rates: This tests to the level of 16 years, at this age Blacks will be significantly more mature than Whites. University performance stats indicate that GCSE results may represent the peak of African intelligence, in other words, Whites overtake and eclipse Blacks at elite levels.

    4. Flawed methodology: A test of *African* intelligence would involve a random sample of Africans; it would not involve a specific subset of Africans. A specific group within a category (migrant African diaspora) is being compare to a general category (White kids).

    Unrepresentative sample, liberal bias, non-relevant comparison, temporary biological factors (maturation) and incomplete data (university and higher educational attainments excerpted from study). Not very convincing.

  280. @Chanda Chisala

    “So, again the problem for the (globalized) Jensenian side is this: show why this does not happen to African migrants’ children (to US or UK) even if we assume they would have been higher income if African economic conditions had been like their host country. ”

    The problem disappears if you imagine that the international IQ gap is half or more environmental.

    In that case, the regression would be masked.

    Just like the dysgenic effect is in the West, by a co-occurring Flynn effect.

    Consider what I take to be R&J (2005) minimal claim: 1/2 the US differences are hereditary, in which case 1/3 of the international African-European ones would seem to be.

    Is that something you think that present data rules out? If so why?

    If you find better data, you could force a retreat from Lynn’s estimate and from R&J’s (2005) middle estimate. I think that this is how we have to proceed. We have to establosh more precisely what is plausible.

  281. Roman_01 says:

    @Chanda Chisala :

    ad 2): No, they did not have to game US SAT system, because blacks fail miserably in SAT tests and also in NAEP. You are just spreading fake news.

    https://www.brookings.edu/research/race-gaps-in-sat-scores-highlight-inequality-and-hinder-upward-mobility/

    https://www.nationsreportcard.gov/mathematics/nation/achievement/?grade=8

    • Replies: @J.G.R. Fuerst
  282. anon[375] • Disclaimer says:

    “Chanda, this doesn’t seem to contradict standard HBD assumptions because of: Selective migration: If Nigeria has an average IQ of 70, and Nigerians migrants to the UK have an IQ of 100”

    I didn’t see where the author had a good retort to that point. The UK, like other Western countries, selects many of its legal immigrants in a manner that correlates with IQ: exceptional talent, needed skills, investors, university students. Perhaps I missed the response in all the comments. If not, then the author has inappropriately made a conclusion from a biased data set. The conclusion that “HBD is false because a highly curated group does ‘better’ than some other group” is not supported. It is not necessary to argue any point beyond that, which seems to be a trap that some commenters have fallen into. Additionally, it might be argued that if intelligence has a genetic component, then a system that selects for intelligence would produce results very much like that which we see here. In that case, this could be taken as evidence for HBD and not against it. Therefore, the author has failed to make any salient point.

    Although, this line of attack does, perhaps, demonstrate how easy it is to manipulate public opinion. In the future, the establishment will just hire people like this to give highly technical, but entirely misleading, testimony on a variety of issues. People will fall for it, too. Expect this reality disconfirmation field to increase in strength over time as the world continues asserting itself contrary to political desire.

    An example of how this works in the US military is the F-35, America’s newest trillion dollar boondoggle. Read the pilot performance reports on this aircraft and you’ll be mislead by things like “similar maneuverability” to the F-16. Conclusion: it’s a good dogfighter despite contrary opinion. Left unstated: this assumes a set of equal conditions (similar altitude, flight direction, and speed) that are unlikely to occur in a real-life situation. Back here in reality, the F-35 has a poorer thrust to weight ratio, which greatly reduces its kinetic performance in visual range dogfights under real world situations. So, no. “Similar maneuverability” means nothing because the data set is artificially circumscribed, as is likely the case here with the author’s HBD argument. But did you see how easy it was to use a couple of true statements out of context to justify an erroneous conclusion? The author has likely done the same here.

    “Burden of proof is on you”

    In what quantum reality is it okay to point to a rare outlier in order to make a broad generalization? The field of high energy particle physics wants to know.

  283. @Roman_01

    He was noting results from my analysis of African immigrants. I had estimated a SAT based Quotient score of 98 for American Nigerians (relative to 100 for White Americans). You can read the post here:
    https://humanvarieties.org/2015/10/28/using-surnames-to-assess-ethnic-aptitude/

    One gets the same impression from watching youtube videos of Nigerians in the US:

    Anyways, by my reading, the UK results are similar to the US ones. Chanda seems to disagree and to think Nigerians etc. in the UK do significantly better.

    Either way, this limits the magnitude of a plausible global hereditarian model, since groups can only be so selected.

  284. I will find Flynn’s material that shows the equality between African Americans and whites up to certain points. I can’t recall where the inflection points are.

    Unz is right about the soft IQ position.

    I’m open to these results. Whites for many centuries went through very hard times, and those times are here again. Decadence and laziness and rejection of Christianity etc, in combination with relentless silent civil war.

    What I find very interesting is the incredible difference in the immigrant differentials to the English mean comparing 2003 to 2010/11. Chisala would argue probably that this is because those black superior IQ’s have had more time to express themselves. I would argue that white British public school attendees have had more time to suffer the results of their parents disenfranchisement and their replacement.

    To understand what I mean, let’s run a test. Let’s compare the Nigerians to the white kids in private schools. Taking the HBD approach the other way, Nigerians with superior IQ’s and a threshold sufficient environment should be able to compete with the whites in the private schools.

    To equalise the conditions between treatment groups in the white working class, let the Nigerian kids all get raped relentlessly over a very sustained period of time like the little white boys and girls in Rotherham, Rochdale, Telford, Oxford, Brighton, Norridge, Burton, and the 100 towns.

    Let the Nigerian children get raped and raped and raped by Muslims and Nigerians and Carribeans and Africans from Sierra Leone and vibrants from Pakistan etc etc then go sit the GSCE and the primary school tests.

    Then compare. That might give you a more equivalent set of treatment groups.

    There also seems to be something off, as Chisala says himself with the Mike drop, about the huge disparity between Nigerians in England and Nigerians in Nigeria. Is it true that Blacks in order to thrive have to have a steady supply of white children to rape? How can the African environment be so debilitating if it consists almost uniformly of these superior Nigerian Kangz? I would have thought their environment would follow from their superior IQ ‘expression’.

    I would like to see Theodore Beale parse these numbers. He obliterated the Jewish 1 sd IQ. Lets see what he has to say here. I’m open to this, it doesn’t change anything, but I’m open to Nigerian superior IQ.

  285. I think there is something to that idea of differentiated experience of diversity.

    I think blacks thrive from proximity to whites, and whites find it incredibly debilitating. That would be an interesting theory. It would also support environment over HBD, just in a different way.

    I’m in no illusions about the state of whites, particularly in Britain. They have been ruled, as Hillaire Belloc observed, by a class of the unification of Jewish commerce and English Aristocracy for a very long time and there is no fellowship there.

    It’s also unclear what conclusion Chisala is trying to communicate with his 85IQ Afrian university graduates.

    One is that IQ is meaningless and Jensen and Lynn are poo poo heads. But if that’s the case then why does IQ seem be predictively valid between say Blacks and East Asians or Persians? IQ can’t be meaningless as between whites and blacks but totally meaningful between totally awesome non-whites and blacks.

    Chisala said no Blacks ever exceed East Asians in tests. But East Asians are subject to the same environment in Britain aren’t they? So are Nigerians now ahead of whites on the totem pole? Or does IQ not exist and Asians just have better micro-environments? Or is it possible that the children of Chinese tycoons who use Uighur teeth for their pillow stuffing and drive Lamborginis to their 10 London apartments have a more enriching environment then white victims of black rape?

    And I go back to my point. If IQ is valid, how is it possible that the conditions in Nigeria for even the wealthy class who attend university are so incredibly incapacitating? As he says, worth minus 30. But how? Nigeria is full of utterly incredible vibrant amazing super-human Wakandan lions. How is it possible that the IQ superiority doesn’t translate into a liveable environment?

    https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2015-03-31/buhari-s-win-in-nigeria-is-a-victory-for-african-democracy

    But this is heartening. This new overclass of Nigerian superior IQ holders are going to be able to transform Nigeria.

    Muhammad Buhari and his Muslim insurgency stand no chance now.

  286. It’s good that Chanda has laid this challenge down for all young white men to prove their mettle.

  287. “I guess you don’t understand how science works. A big part of science is making observations and then trying to develop theories which explain them (and then using those theories to make predictions which can be used as a check). For the genetics of intelligence the chain of reasoning goes something like”

    Laughing.

    Simple response.

    You don’t have a genetic marker for intelligence. Period.

    You don’t have a definitive or speculative model of design or processes that are linked to intelligence.

    What you have is a set of possible relationships, that as you clearly do, researchers speculate about.

    Geneticists acknowledge that there are genetic models that are definitively related to biological processes — however when it comes to matters of cognition, they are not even close. So making predictions based on a nonexistent artifact, guess work, theoretical propositions.

    • Replies: @Flint Clint
    , @res
  288. “For the genetics of intelligence the chain of reasoning goes something like”

    I am not sure you have noticed that in the last two tears the field of psychiatry has been taking a beating on their claims regarding the use of pharmaceuticals on cognitive processes.

    Notice: you don’t those complaints about treating diabetes.

    Get back to me when tweak an allelle and improve or decrease an IQ score.

    • Replies: @Flint Clint
    , @res
  289. @EliteCommInc.

    Yeah you’re just as intelligent as you think you right? Orky magick

  290. @EliteCommInc.

    Let’s focus on that theme.

    Rape tends to cause cognitive disruption.

    At least one million boys and girls in England from the public school system had been raped by mudslimes and mud people including Nigerians in the recent past.

    Can Chanda please eliminate that confound from the numbers. It will fit his environmental thesis.

    Can he also present those Nigerian invader children? Can they get raped a few times with jagged steel and have petrol poured on them and gang raped in attics by Nigerians.

    Then get the little bastards to sit the test.

    Nigerians children not being rape victims kind of spoils his scientific conclusions somewhat. Doesn’t it.

  291. So Nigerian IQ rises enormously in a white environment.

    However Nigerians themselves create an environment that catastrophically inhibits their own IQ expression.

    Because Nigerians in Nigeria have calamitously low IQs due to the Nigerian environment they create. Right? Their environment, their 30 IQ point loss.

    But Nigerians never ever best East Asians in tests in Britain, which means environment factor has a limitation. Test scores can’t be purely environmental.

    So IQ must be real. Same environment, similar scholastic culture give or take, consistently different result.

    The huge divergence in IQ expression between whites and mud people since 2003 must be due to a huge relative improvement and diminishing of their respective environments. Holding IQ HBD factor constant.

    So mud people, regardless of their IQ capabilities, rely on white people to reach their potential, whilst seeming to retard or prevent the realisation of white potential.

    The environmental presence that has destroyed whites environment in Britain is the presence of the Nigerians and other rapists.

    Nigerians thrive, whites suffer.

    So Chanda is right in a way, IQ is irrelevant to the core dynamic of racial environment creation.

    They have to go back.

    Probably not in Britain. But say, Germany.

    It’s very nice for the Nigerians, but they aren’t British and they never ever ever will be in a million years.

    So environment means more then we thought. It just works in a strange way. All these superior beings want to live with whites.

    Why?

    Why can’t you fuck off and live superior lives with superior IQs very far away. Rape your own children. Create your own optimal environments.

  292. If Chanda will forgive my surge of anger at what looks like the diversion in environment between whites and blacks in Britain.

    This is pretty interesting for the Jewish Question.

    Because Jewish hegemony we’re rests upon HBD that says Jews have an average IQ of 115. That means they have a share of 140 plus IQ bearers, and own and manage everything.

    But Chanda on behalf of white supremacists is saying that IQ doesn’t exist. The Jewish IQ doesn’t exist. They just discriminate against others by denying the environment they create for themselves. And or corruption and nepotism.

    That’s quite anti semitic and problematic.

    It isn’t genes. And Jews supposedly share the same environment. What could it be?

    This is good work. Nigerians will lead the charge against the Jews.

  293. I apologise. I will be more respectful. This is good work. Sometimes the anger and bitterness is quite acute. And accepting this environmental thesis, there must have been an apocalyptic drop in whites environment, to the benefit of blacks.

    I wonder if this same effect occurs in Germany.

    • Replies: @Dannyboy
  294. @Some Guy

    I should have probably responded to this earlier.

    Selective migration: If Nigeria has an average IQ of 70, and Nigerians migrants to the UK have an IQ of 100, which seems like a plausible level of selection,

    How is it a plausible level of selection if it is true that:
    1 African university graduates have av IQ in high 70’s or at best, mid 80s, as their literature suggests
    2 there are fewer than half university graduates in this sample – a sample with a much higher IQ than the grads

    They would have to have been selected on some other quality common to migrants which correlates more with IQ than education does; and which apparently does not consequently give a large advantage on educational attainment in Africa.

    In short, imagine a sample of older people in the US that’s randomly selected from people who have IQ that’s 2 SD (or even just 1 SD) above the mean. How many non-university grads do you think would be present in such a sample? I’m guessing nowhere near half, if any!

    HBD ties itself in more knots when it starts suggesting that educational attainment has a distinctively weak correlation with IQ in Africa, while also insisting that the lack of alleles “for” educational attainment among Africans explains its low levels.

    and additive heritability is 0.6

    Not sure about plausibility of 0.6 in the African environment.

    • Replies: @res
  295. res says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    Laughing.

    Now there is an erudite response. At least you are clear about the caliber of person I am dealing with.

    You don’t have a genetic marker for intelligence. Period.

    How do the intelligence SNPs which have been found not meet this criteria?

    You don’t have a definitive or speculative model of design or processes that are linked to intelligence.

    Really? What about brain size, neuron density, neuron interconnection, etc.?

    I linked to the article containing this graphic already, but let’s include the graphic itself inline for the benefit of those who can’t be bothered to follow relevant links. This shows the tissue types associated with some intelligence SNPs. Notice the focus on the brain.

    What you have is a set of possible relationships, that as you clearly do, researchers speculate about.

    You say this like it is a bad thing. What should researchers do, stick their heads in the sand and wait until some higher authority proclaims a complete solution?

    Laughter or not, you really don’t understand how science works. I find it sad when people laugh at what they don’t understand.

    Geneticists acknowledge that there are genetic models that are definitively related to biological processes — however when it comes to matters of cognition, they are not even close. So making predictions based on a nonexistent artifact, guess work, theoretical propositions.

    I like that last “sentence.” Perhaps you could explain what you actually meant there?

    It appears we understand enough to demonstrate associations like this:
    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/piffer-rides-again/

  296. res says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    I am not sure you have noticed that in the last two tears the field of psychiatry has been taking a beating on their claims regarding the use of pharmaceuticals on cognitive processes.

    And that has what exactly to do with the genetics of intelligence?

    Notice: you don’t those complaints about treating diabetes.

    I’m not sure I’d be touting diabetes treatment as a success story given that the rate of diabetes in the US has increased from 1% in 1958 to 7% in 2015.
    https://www.cdc.gov/diabetes/statistics/slides/long_term_trends.pdf

    And let’s take a look at what a 2017 research paper has to say about the mechanisms of action for metformin:
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5552828/

    “Metformin is a widely-used drug that results in clear benefits in relation to glucose metabolism and diabetes-related complications. The mechanisms underlying these benefits are complex and still not fully understood.”

    Apparently understanding the exact mechanism is not as important as you seem to think. Metformin has been used successfully as a diabetes drug for decades without understanding the exact mechanisms of its action.

    Get back to me when tweak an allelle and improve or decrease an IQ score.

    Now there is a nice arbitrary goalpost. I am sure you will come up with a new one if/when that happens.

    That is hardly a necessary precondition of either understanding or making predictions related to the genetics of intelligence. Though it would make an excellent practical demonstration.

  297. GS says:
    @CanSpeccy

    My understanding – and this is the observation that led Arthur Jensen to get interested in intelligence research in the first place – is that a lot of very dull white people have particular learning disabilities which mean they aren’t just stupid in an ordinary way, whereas black people tend to just be particularly dull while otherwise being cognitively normal.*

    *This is, quite obviously, an averages thing, and you’ll find a lot of dull white people with no disability and dull black people with a serious impairment.

  298. Morris L says:

    All these words spent over something so, so simple! The comparison is apples to oranges – a selected group of Africans against the general British population. For it to be apples to apples it would be African immigrants compared against British emigrants. People with the wherewithal and the drive to voluntarily uproot their lives to another country are clearly of better quality than the average drone.

  299. Davidcito says:

    Horrible, childish article. “They” and “them” referring to all HBDers? Please. Its very possible that some subsaharans will be very intelligent, and this fits with HBD. Its how averages work. Regression to the mean doesnt even address the “preselection” argument. You’d need multiple generations of research on this cohort. Even in the US, new LEGAL immigrants from africa, and most places, are more successful and intelligent than natural born their natural born distant relatives. The immigration system and background check controls for intelligence, financial success, no crime, and successful contribution to society. So those allowed in legally are the top 1% of their entire country. Do that with whites and you’ll have an avg IQ of 115

    • Replies: @res
    , @Chanda Chisala
  300. “Yeah you’re just as intelligent . . .”

    “How do the intelligence SNPs which have been found not meet this criteria?”

    “And that has what exactly to do with the genetics of intelligence?”

    I make no arguments that even suggest I am intelligent and on this matter irrelevant and knowing what code or genes or processes give us cognitive skills and to what extent would be key in understanding how, why and if it could be manipulated to change outcomes. It’s odd that you wouldn’t grasp that simple concept. As in the case of diabetes: a physician can see the relationship of the biology and the impact of x on k.

    Now clearly are genetic makeup is our biological foundation. But in making assessments unless one has a firm grip on the what that cause said effect . . . it’s speculative. That you question the obvious importance of actually know what gene, make of genes and how they result in cognitive processes should give anyone pause. My press is very simple.

    But this is an old discussion. You are in that category of researchers that makes claims that the choice to engage in same relational conduct is genetic. Upon asked to note that genetic code, gene or genetic relationship, states it doesn’t matter, it’s genetic.

    You say intelligence is genetic. Humans are certainly genetic. But note for the specific gene, set of genes, or the relationship among genes that produce cognitive ability we call intelligence. The responses are a long series of studies, and discussions about uncovering billions of allelles correllated with . . . ( ignoring all of the cross correllations to other processes), and there is the ultimate — your just to stupid to understand and its irrelevant anyway . . .

    But as with the genetic homosexual crowd — you simply are unable to identify the genetic cause you assert exists. Minus that, the press s based on speculation. It’s simple cause to effect. Whites are genetically more intelligent — sure ok, note the genetics that cause that.

    • Replies: @res
  301. res says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    I make no arguments that even suggest I am intelligent and on this matter irrelevant

    Really? So intelligence is irrelevant for understanding scientific concepts. I learn something new here everyday.

    knowing what code or genes or processes give us cognitive skills and to what extent would be key in understanding how, why and if it could be manipulated to change outcomes. It’s odd that you wouldn’t grasp that simple concept. As in the case of diabetes: a physician can see the relationship of the biology and the impact of x on k.

    I don’t even understand the point you are trying to make here. Perhaps that is my inadequacy so maybe you could make another try?

    Now clearly are genetic makeup is our biological foundation. But in making assessments unless one has a firm grip on the what that cause said effect . . . it’s speculative. That you question the obvious importance of actually know what gene, make of genes and how they result in cognitive processes should give anyone pause. My press is very simple.

    That is a little better, though still garbled to my eyes. It seems you completely missed my point about how physicians are able to effectively use metformin as a diabetes medication despite not fully understanding how it works.

    But this is an old discussion. You are in that category of researchers that makes claims that the choice to engage in same relational conduct is genetic. Upon asked to note that genetic code, gene or genetic relationship, states it doesn’t matter, it’s genetic.

    That is a lot of words put into my mouth. Perhaps you could try to substantiate some of those by pointing to where I have said things like that? It becomes tiresome arguing against people with some strawman idea of HBD and its proponents which is the only thing they argue against.

    You say intelligence is genetic. Humans are certainly genetic. But note for the specific gene, set of genes, or the relationship among genes that produce cognitive ability we call intelligence. The responses are a long series of studies, and discussions about uncovering billions of allelles correllated with . . . ( ignoring all of the cross correllations to other processes),

    Is English your second (or third, etc.) language? I am having significant trouble understanding what you write.

    and there is the ultimate — your just to stupid to understand and its irrelevant anyway . . .

    Pro tip: if you are going to call someone stupid try not to make so many grammar/spelling mistakes. Those mistakes make it look as if you are projecting.

    But as with the genetic homosexual crowd — you simply are unable to identify the genetic cause you assert exists. Minus that, the press s based on speculation. It’s simple cause to effect. Whites are genetically more intelligent — sure ok, note the genetics that cause that.

    Did you completely fail to notice the graphic I gave showing the tissue types affected by the intelligence SNPs? That points to likely causes though the exact effects causing the intelligence change need to be identified. It helps that most of the negative intelligence alleles are probably simple loss of function cases.

    It appears you also failed to notice (or simply did not understand) the Country IQ vs. EDU PGS graph I linked. That we see relationships like that so clearly indicates there is probably a connection between the two.

    It is fascinating (if incredibly tiresome) to watch people engage in evidence-free argument and also utterly fail to understand the evidence presented to them.

    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
  302. res says:
    @Davidcito

    The “they” and “them” (as well as references to things like “side” in some of Chanda’s comments in other posts) do make clear some of the thinking processes in play.

    The immigration system and background check controls for intelligence, financial success, no crime, and successful contribution to society. So those allowed in legally are the top 1% of their entire country. Do that with whites and you’ll have an avg IQ of 115

    Minor clarification (it only strengthens your point). The top 1% of US whites by IQ starts (the average is only a little higher because the normal curve falls off so sharply at the tails) at about 135. Top 1% by other measures (e.g. SES) is probably more like the 115 you assert because of imperfect correlation.

    Even in the US, new LEGAL immigrants from africa, and most places, are more successful and intelligent than natural born their natural born distant relatives. The immigration system and background check controls for intelligence, financial success, no crime, and successful contribution to society.

    I am amused by how Africa boosters trumpet this when talking about achievement, but Chanda consistently dismisses the importance of selective immigration. Here is a sample of the trumpeting:
    https://gadflyonthewallblog.com/2018/06/06/african-immigrants-excel-academically-why-dont-african-americans/

    Part of it seems to be qualities selected for in the immigration process, itself.

    We don’t let just anyone come to the U.S. We have rigorous qualifications and prerequisites that have to be met. For instance, students who want to study here must get high marks on the SAT, Act and/or the TOFFEL – the language proficiency test. To do that, they need the money and resources to study for these exams. They are already some of the best achievers in their native countries.

  303. res says:
    @Chanda Chisala

    How is it a plausible level of selection if it is true that:
    1 African university graduates have av IQ in high 70’s or at best, mid 80s, as their literature suggests
    2 there are fewer than half university graduates in this sample – a sample with a much higher IQ than the grads

    It is worth including this excerpt from Rushton immediately following the selective quote about university graduate IQs in your linked post:

    A study at South Africa’s University of the North by Zaaiman, van der Flier, and Thijs (2001) found the highest scoring African sample to that date—147 first-year mathematics and science students who scored 52 out of 60 on the Standard Progressive Matrices, which is equivalent to an IQ of 100. This higher score may reflect the fact that they were mathematics and science students, specially selected for admission to the university from a pool of 700 applicants on the basis of a math-science selection test.

    At the University of the Witwatersrand in Johannesburg, South Africa, Rushton, Skuy, and colleagues gave the Raven’s Progressive Matrices in four separate studies under optimal testing conditions. Rushton and Skuy (2000) found 173 African 1st-year psychology students averaged an IQ equivalent of 84. Skuy et al. (2002) tested another 70 psychology students who averaged an IQ equivalent of 83. After receiving training on how to solve Matrices-type items, their mean score rose to an IQ equivalent of 96. Rushton, Skuy, and Fridjhon (2002, 2003) gave nearly 200 African 1st-year engineering students both the Standard and the Advanced version of the Raven’s test and found they averaged an IQ of 97 on the Standard and 103 on the Advanced, making them the highest scoring African sample on record.

    In your post above you assert:

    If you say that these parents would have indeed been above 135 (instead of IQ in the 70s or 80s) had they grown up in the UK, then you are suggesting that the African environment depressed their IQs by around 50 IQ points or more—which more than defeats your hypothesis!

    Exactly which hypothesis is being defeated here? What do you consider a reasonable value for the environmental depression of average IQ in Africa relative to the UK? I lean towards about 10 points which would change an average measured African IQ around 70 into around 80.

    In short, imagine a sample of older people in the US that’s randomly selected from people who have IQ that’s 2 SD (or even just 1 SD) above the mean. How many non-university grads do you think would be present in such a sample? I’m guessing nowhere near half, if any!

    That is an interesting assertion (the “older” is an important qualifier). I suspect you are right about 2 SD (top 2% IQs) in the twentieth century US. I am less sure about the 1 SD (top 16% IQs) version. There is data for US college graduation rates in this comprehensive document:
    120 Years of American Education: A Statistical Portrait
    https://nces.ed.gov/pubs93/93442.pdf
    This Figure seems appropriate:
    Figure 17.–Bachelor’s degrees per 1,000 23-year-olds: 1889-90 to 1989-90

    Up until 1968 (you did say older and that group would be 74 and up today) the college graduation rate was under 20%. The IQ of the average college grad in those days was considered to be about 115 so something like half of those would be higher leaving 10% of 23 year olds as college grads at that IQ. This is out of 16% leaving 6/16 = about 38% of those with IQs above 115 not being college grads. 38% is not what I would call “I’m guessing nowhere near half, if any!” (especially with that exclamation point)

    It is good to check one’s intuitions with numbers when appropriate data is available.

    and additive heritability is 0.6

    Not sure about plausibility of 0.6 in the African environment.

    This is an important point. A big problem here is the diversity of environments in Africa. My guess is the heritability among the elites (good environment) would be something like we see in the west while the heritability in poorer parts of the continent would be significantly less.

    Given the selectivity seen in Nigerian immigration to the UK I think the elite number is more relevant for evaluating regression to the mean for Nigerian immigrants in the UK.

    HBD ties itself in more knots when it starts suggesting that educational attainment has a distinctively weak correlation with IQ in Africa, while also insisting that the lack of alleles “for” educational attainment among Africans explains its low levels.

    So who exactly is “HBD”? Perhaps you could point to a particular person actually doing this? Or is it just a strawman?

    Actually, Chanda, in our past conversations you have been the one arguing for a weak correlation between education and IQ in Africa. See my comment here: http://www.unz.com/article/my-last-word-on-the-scrabble-and-iq-debate-2/?showcomments#comment-2016734
    It was interesting that you never did respond to that comment.

    The quote from you was:

    Just because a group appears to be selected on some random level of education DOES NOT MEAN it is selected on INTELLIGENCE unless you KNOW the correlation between level of education and intelligence FOR THAT SOCIETY.

  304. Gene Su says:
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    The white British of today are a conquered, defeated, humiliated people. They are a people whose collective and individual dignity has been successfully destroyed. Their territory has been successfully invaded, their women, and their children (!) are routinely raped and pimped by the invaders, their universities, courts, and institutions have been taken over by foreigners, they are ritually and publicly insulted and humiliated at every turn by the gatekeepers of their own culture, their religion is degraded and despised, even by its own prelates. And they do nothing about all this. Their racial and cultural confidence and self-respect is zero. Jews who hate them tell them what to think, about everything, and they obey. In terms of historical trajectory, white Britons are in complete free-fall.

    Well, Mr. Germ Theory of Disease, if we can say that, then we can also say that the reason why black Americans do so poorly in school and commit so much crime is because they have had to endure centuries of slavery, oppression, and racism.

    I guess no one has to be responsible for their own actions and behavior.

  305. I wonder if the discussion would benefit from a distinction between essence and accident, similar to Aristotle’s. Suppose two populations A and B whose heritable component of intelligence is equal. Now suppose the upper 20% of A are not allowed to reproduce. Presumably the next generation of A’s will not be as bright as the B’s. But will this inferiority last indefinitely into future generations, or will the A’s gradually catch up (given similar environment)? If it lasts indefinitely it is ‘essential’ while if the A’s would drift back up to the B’s level it would be ‘accidental.’

    So long as differences of heritable IQ between races are accidental there is no need to attach strong emotions to their existence.

    Also: Presumably a change in mating habits could lift up any population, so why place so much emphasis on how they compare at any given moment?

  306. @jack daniels

    Of course this question is tangential to the main discussion, so —
    Sorry!

  307. annamaria says:
    @CanSpeccy

    “…the rioters in Hong Kong may have won at least a temporary reprieve from Chinese tyranny…”
    — The help of the “democratic” & “freedom-loving ” NED (the US ziocon school of making putsches) and of the “experts” from zio-banderite Ukraine has its fingerprints in Hong Kong: https://www.rt.com/news/475036-hongkong-ukraine-neo-nazis/
    You have firmly established yourself as a loyal pupil of MainStreamMedia.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  308. annamaria says:
    @obwandiyag

    You would not believe how many talented people were among Neanderthals.

  309. annamaria says:
    @obwandiyag

    Hey, obwandiyag, how come that you missed the most pertinent question posted in #168?

    what is the intention and objective of “proving” intellectual equality with whites?

    Is it to lobby for an end to affirmative action, welfare entitlements, and other subsidies for Africans – freeing the mostly white populations forcibly employed as tax slaves to unnecessarily (by your own conclusions) prop up these fabulously entitled people?

    Answer, please, proud @obwandiyag and Chisala.

  310. Lurker says:
    @Anonymous

    It doesn’t help that whites who hit back will find the force of the state deployed against them.

    The 2011 English riots were instructive. The media would approvingly report on assorted Turks, Kurds etc defending their communities from the mysteriously unidentified predators (the ones outperforming whites at GCSE level as it happens).

    Then some whites decided they should start doing the same.

    Whereupon the police magically found the pesky missing manpower they had been complaining of up until that point and were able to clamp down on any whites taking action.

    The media made it quite clear that such action was contrary to the public good and a matter of ridicule as well.

  311. @The Germ Theory of Disease

    “Jews who hate them tell them what to think, about everything, and they obey. In terms of historical trajectory, white Britons are in complete free-fall.”

    That seems correct to me, in relation to the USA as well. You would think someone would figure out how to discuss the Jewish critical stance toward Christian hegemony without veering into anything that could plausibly be described as Nazism, but so far nobody has.

    I suspect that the main problem is money, which controls polticians and every other institution that requires money, which is to say almost everything.

  312. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @annamaria

    You have firmly established yourself as a loyal pupil of MainStreamMedia.

    By the use of selective quotation, you have firmly etablished yourself as an agent of disinformation.

    Y0ur quote:

    the rioters in Hong Kong may have won at least a temporary reprieve from Chinese tyranny

    , which was followed by the word “but,” which totally changes the implication. Here’s what I said:

    the rioters in Hong Kong may have won at least a temporary reprieve from Chinese tyranny but that is only because Hong Kong’s own elite wish to retain their elite status, rather than be absorbed and perhaps eliminated, by China’s Commie power structure.

    Or is it your contention that Hong Kong’s elite wish to be absorbed by China’s Commie power structure, a view that one might expect of a Commie shill.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  313. Roman_01 says:

    BTW this study says, IQ has no impact on GCSE scores. So i guess, this discussion is meaningless.

    https://www.tes.com/news/iq-has-no-impact-exam-success

    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/0144341990190201

    • Replies: @eah
  314. “Really? So intelligence is irrelevant for understanding scientific concepts. I learn something new here everyday.”

    Tell you what when locate the set of genes that produce intelligence let me know. And when you are able to manipulate said gene, set of genes or genetic process to cause and effect let me know. Until then the correllations remain speculative at best.

    Furthermore, I don’t mind anyone running from an argument which fails them – no issues. However, I do not and am not known for calling anyone names or even challenging their intelligence. Highly intelligent people make mistakes all the time. I may respond to faults in rationale as I have here. But the only people who attempted to shift the burden to anyone’s personal attributes have been those who fail to address a simple equation of cause and effect.

    And that is you and others referring to my person. Let’s keep the personal attacks accusations from whence they come and that is certainly not me.

    So you want to change the subject to my lousy proof reading/. No issues. I could certainly improve my written responses.

    But I think the issue is clear.

    As stated previously

    Whites score better than blacks on said academic achievement tests

    Whites score better because whites are genetic predisposed to do so.

    Conclusion: whites must have some unique genetic trait that produces better said acheivements

    The test for this is not correllations, the test is to cause and effect. For correllations to have validity they must be demonstrated to by some link that gets you to the end. Correllations may gt you in the ball park, but it’s a bis a big park and the correllations don’t even get you the bases, muchless homeplate. That being the case one makes a series of speculative rationales for this is this — that’s not proof. Especially given the size of the fields and the unknown relations or even how of either genes or the supposed alleles or how they relate and whether or not they relate singularly or in conjunction with something else at play.

    Now in this park comprised of wide variations of environments, and interactive artifacts that impact the goal in this the why of different IQ assessments between whites and blacks. Concluding that whites have a better predisposed genetic formula to intelligence demands that you are able to point to that genetic marker, markers and or processes and measure said effect.

    Here’s an article that explicates in great detail a finding that challenges the premise of whites scoring better. Bottom line, the original premise is not accurate. And it fails on two levels. But it highlights something far more important in my view — that intelligence is impacted by environment and that making such cognitive assessments require qualifiers. The the assumptions about white superiority in genetic disposition regarding cognitive processes is not as clearly established as once thought.

    And it bolsters further that testing for x and y in order to be valid requires x and y in similar situated conditions.

    You say that homosexual behavior is determined by genes, a relational correllation is insifficient to the make that conclusion.

    my lack of proof reading ha no bearing on that.

    And do stop restructuring my comments to reflect a meaning I did not advance. For example,

    “Really? So intelligence is irrelevant for understanding scientific concepts. I learn something new here everyday.”

    That is not what I said or even suggested. It doesn’t matter how intelligent i am the model for cause and effect remains the same.

    We low IQ people like to stick the foundations that serve as building blocks for more complex analysis — get that wrong — what you do going forward may be interesting and even informative — but it will still be incorrect.

    Now if you care to point out the specific gene, genes, genetic model or the assigned alleles that produce intelligence or other cognitive processes in humans and perhaps which ones are unique to whites . . . . I am sincerely open to the matter.

    • Replies: @res
  315. Gene Su says:
    @obwandiyag

    That’s such a mature response.

    • Replies: @res
    , @eah
  316. @Davidcito

    I normally don’t respond to rude commenters like this one, but I’ll respond for the sake of other readers since some misinformed comments keep getting repeated by many people.

    Even in the US, new LEGAL immigrants from africa, and most places, are more successful and intelligent than natural born their natural born distant relatives. The immigration system and background check controls for intelligence, financial success, no crime, and successful contribution to society. So those allowed in legally are the top 1% of their entire country.

    Firstly I should note that I have zero intention of convincing everyone, my interest is really only the people who study the issue sufficiently enough that they know the facts and the technical issues involved.

    For example, they understand that you do not have freedom to just assert any level of selection because if you go too high, you might just not find enough people at that level of selection (compared to the number that have actually migrated), as I tried to argue in the article. And if you do not go high enough, you will fail to explain how their children are failing to regress down to expected levels, even if you add points for a better environment. If you add too many points to account for a better environment, you might find that you’ve added as many points as the IQ gap that you claimed exists intractably – which means it is all due to environment, thus falsifying yourself.

    This is why one of the few actual experts taking part in these comments (J. Fuerst) says above in comment 289:

    …Anyways, by my reading, the UK results are similar to the US ones. Chanda seems to disagree and to think Nigerians etc. in the UK do significantly better.

    Either way, this limits the magnitude of a plausible global hereditarian model, since groups can only be so selected.

    -my emphasis.

    But above all, the experts are also likely to be more familiar with the facts on how the immigration system actually works. When Trump complains about “lotteries” and “chain,” he is speaking of a real issue, no matter where you stand on the issue. But if he is factually right (at least on the structure of the system), then everyone coming in here and claiming the existence of a much more ideal immigration system are mistaken (never mind the fact that most of them ALSO agree with Trump while disagreeing with him here!).

    Additionally, the experts understand that “regression to the mean” means that even if you were selected on “merit” from the very tail end of the cognitive curve in your country, the siblings (etc) you later bring in (with *their* children) will theoretically be much less smart. This is the well-known sibling regression to the mean, which is supposed to be quite brutal. If it is true that siblings of *highly selected* high-IQ BLACK AMERICANS are much lower in intelligence because of mean IQ 85, then siblings of these supposedly “highly selected” Africans (with a much lower source population mean IQ) will be even lower, thus lowering further the projected cognitive ability of the immigrant children. [I don’t have time to demonstrate the numbers here].

    So, the question then is, even if we accepted that the primary individuals admitted by the system are a smart portion of Africa (at IQ 100 or even above), how many people actually come through such primary selection?

    Here is a clue for you:

    Like all US immigrant groups, most Black Africans are admitted through the family reunification channels; but Black Africans are

    much more likely

    than other groups to be admitted as refugees or through the diversity visa program, which aims to increase flows from underrepresented countries by allowing immigration from these countries of individuals without a formal job offer or strong family ties to the US.

    Source: https://www.migrationpolicy.org/pubs/CBI-AfricanMigration.pdf

    As for the other person above who also claimed that the UK only gets highly selected top professionals from Africa, it seems you did not look at the employment profile table I already gave within the article, which directly contradicts that claim. (I enjoy watching how people who usually decry the immigration system from third world countries suddenly start saying it is the best system ever invented and it is bringing in only the best (!), when they see the performance of their children.)

    And even if you ignore all the evidence and convince yourself that the immigration system of these two countries really does target only the cognitive best of Africa, don’t forget that even the children of ILLEGAL immigrants (a large portion of the population) are also part of this education system.

    The problem with the selection argument (as explanation for these children’s performance) is that it is not only contradicted by mathematical constraints within the hereditarian framework (as explained above), it is also just empirically falsified by simply examining those migrants and/or the immigration system that “admitted” them.

    OK, I have nothing further here. Thank you all.

    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
  317. eah says:
    @Roman_01

    BTW this study says, IQ has no impact on GCSE scores. So i guess, this discussion is meaningless.

    Probably a lot of Americans and others unfamiliar with the GCSE = General Certificate of Secondary Education are commenting here — it seems GCSE would be approx equivalent to eg a scored GED in the US, or some other state specific test required for a HS diploma — ie it does not seem necessarily equivalent to the SAT — you can find formulas and/or tables to convert your SAT score into an IQ value, and the result is, for many people, roughly accurate.

    Dr Wilding said: “It is a rather encouraging finding if GCSE is not just a test of intelligence. There are many other factors which affect performance. Obviously it is designed to test recall of a body of knowledge and candidates who were inherently good at that had an advantage.”

  318. @Chanda Chisala

    You told me that the Yoruba students made up 22% of the total of 411. The sample size is therefore 91. That is a robust sample size. So the year-to-year changes cannot be due to sampling error.

    Those changes are considerable. In 2009, the Yoruba students scored 39%. The next year, they scored 68%. The year after, they scored 75%. That is … impressive.

    Could such a dramatic improvement be due to cultural and linguistic assimilation? Very unlikely. West African immigration to the United Kingdom has been steadily increasing. If anything, the average Yoruba student should have been somewhat less acculturated in 2010 than in 2009.

    So what’s the explanation? First, the explanation is irrelevant. Your premise is that CGSE scores are a good proxy for cognitive ability. They obviously are not. Cognitive ability can change over the course of a lifestime, but not that fast and not to that degree.

    I suspect there is a mixture of reasons. At some point in 2009, a few West African students, or perhaps their parents, found a way to boost their scores dramatically. That way was soon passed on from one family to another. But I’m only speculating.

    Again, it doesn’t matter. The burden is on you to show that CGSE scores are a reliable proxy for cognitive ability. They aren’t.

    In my opinion, the cognitive edge of West African students in the UK has three causes.

    1. Igbo students. I base this opinion not on the CGSE data but on evidence over a much longer time span in Nigeria. The Igbo have a proven record of academic achievement, and I would expect them to show the same sort of achievement in the UK.

    2. Parental investment in tutoring and coaching of various sorts. West Africans generally understand the value of having a diploma, and West African parents are willing to invest in such services.

    3. Cheating. If cheating is rife in Nigerian schools, there is no reason to believe that things will be any different in UK schools

    You introduce a number of non sequiturs:

    “Neither was this a *longitudinal* report.” – Who said it was? I suspect that many of the students in the 2009 to 2011 period were the same individuals, but the point is irrelevant.

    “are you going to publicly correct this idea [of high Igbo achievement] that you’ve blogged on so many times?” – Why should I? I wasn’t referring primarily to your data. I was referring primariy to the historical evidence. As I’ve said repeatedly, CGSE scores are not a reliable proxy for cognitive ability, certainly not the genetic component of cognitive ability.

    “we do not know how many were *in each of those years.” – You said the Yoruba students were 22% of the total. Did you mean more or less 22%? An exact number isn’t necessary. I simply want to know whether the sample size could explain the dramatic changes in the CGSE scores.

    “do you believe they are cheating (legally or illegally or whatever) even at the 5-7 year old level?” – I don’t know. I suspect the parents are intervening in the process at various points. Again, the question is irrelevant. The CGSE score are clearly an unreliable measure of cognitive ability.

    “do you believe they’ve also found a way of gaming the SAT system in the US?” – I believe that Igbo students are high achievers. I also believe that high achievers can make their high marks even higher because they are better able at gaming the system.

    “If you passed your high school tests through gaming the system, you should find A-levels and university extremely challenging, no?” See my previous answer.

    “And you believe that their teachers and fellow pupils have noticed a huge disconnect between their normal performance in class and their final GCSE/SAT scores but none of them have said anything?”

    Yes, that is exactly what I believe. No teacher — in the current social and political environment — would dare to say anything. If I were a teacher in the UK I would think twice before saying anything. And perhaps even I wouldn’t say a word.

    “I have to respectfully resign now.” – An academic never resigns, unless he’s very old. Many academic debates go on for years and years, even decades. And you want to give up after a few days?

    • Replies: @res
    , @Chanda Chisala
  319. Dannyboy says:
    @Flint Clint

    Never be haughty to the humble, or humble to the haughty…Nathan Bedford Forrest

    Don’t ever apologize to bullshitting Nigger invaders, or their Jew/ White shitlib enablers.

  320. Ali says:
    @J.G.R. Fuerst

    This must be stressed: A Levels are not an accurate representation of the student population in Britain.

    1. GCSEs are a better representation of the student population since everyone is obligated to take them. Additionally, you’re undermining the g loading of the GCSEs:

    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/iq-and-gcse-results-in-england-r081/

    2. The reason A Levels aren’t a good representation of the UK’s student population is because White Brits have a far higher drop out rate at age 16 than ethnic minorities — higher than all groups. White Brits end up doing apprenticeships, or leave for work, or end up unemployed at higher rates than non-White Brits. In effect, you’re comparing a White British sample in A Levels that has removed a large part of their lowest performing students (I think it’s a fair presumption to make — those who leave are typically the least intelligent), to a wider range of ethnic minorities.

    https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/education-skills-and-training/after-education/destinations-of-school-pupils-after-key-stage-4-usually-aged-16-years/latest

    3. Coupled with the above, British South Asians and Africans are also far more likely to take Mathematics and/or Science subjects at A Levels. While White Brits are far more likely to study an Arts subject than any other group. Over 70% of White Brits take a Humanities/Social Science A Level and 35% take an Arts A Level. In addition to this, British South Asians and Africans are also take a more difficult combination of subjects, i.e. 2.34% of White Brits take Biology/Chemistry/Mathematics in comparison to 8.54% of Africans; 1.55% of White Brits take Chemistry/Physics/Mathematics compared to 3.84% of Africans, and so on (the difference here between White Brits and Indians/Pakistanis/Bangladeshis is even more stark).

    4. Check out the ethnic minority representation of Medicine students. British Africans and South Asians are disproportionately overrepresented as Medical students, even after you adjust for age. The same is true for Law students, whereby 1/3 of all law students belong to an ethnic minority background.

    So yes, White Brits do better in A Levels once you take into account that the lowest performing Whites are excluded and White Brits do far easier subjects.

    • Agree: Chanda Chisala
    • Replies: @Flint Clint
    , @eah
  321. Dannyboy says:
    @James Speaks

    Not only do they cheat regularly, but the entire “public education” bureaucracy is controlled by the Left. The ridiculous lie commonly known as EQUALITY is of course one of the cornerstones of their perverse ideology.

    Most blacks can’t even manage to graduate from the dumbed down babysitting service called “high school”, much less college. That’s what “affirmative action” is for.

  322. res says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    Tell you what when locate the set of genes that produce intelligence let me know.

    Partly done. See my links above. You really don’t know what you are talking about here.

    And that is you and others referring to my person. Let’s keep the personal attacks accusations from whence they come and that is certainly not me.

    Oh really. Let’s revisit your comment 306 (which I quoted in my earlier comment as well):

    and there is the ultimate — your just to stupid to understand and its irrelevant anyway . . .

    Sure looks like a personal attack to me. The innocent routine is some great hypocrisy. This is why I like written forums like this. It is easy to demonstrate when people lie as you did there. If you don’t want personal attacks from me then refrain from initiating them yourself.

    And this argument is fallacious in multiple ways.

    Whites score better than blacks on said academic achievement tests

    Whites score better because whites are genetic predisposed to do so.

    Conclusion: whites must have some unique genetic trait that produces better said acheivements

    1. Your first sentence should refer to averages. Not all whites score better than all blacks.
    2. Your second sentence is more of an assumption than a premise.
    3. In your conclusion there is no need for the traits to be unique to whites. It is sufficient that they occur at higher frequency. Which has the added benefit of appearing to correspond with reality.

    The test for this is not correllations, the test is to cause and effect.

    Says the low IQ (not a personal attack since you have claimed this status for yourself) science expert. Correlations are one test. Cause and effect (which generally requires controlled trials for certainty) is a higher standard of test.

    Here’s an article that explicates in great detail a finding that challenges the premise of whites scoring better.

    Who exactly holds that premise? There are blacks who score better than most whites. A good thought experiment is to consider looking exclusively at blacks graduating from Caltech. It is a good bet they will score better than 90+% of whites. With enough selectivity many things are possible. As is well demonstrated over and over in Chanda’s oeuvre.

    And do stop restructuring my comments to reflect a meaning I did not advance. For example,

    “Really? So intelligence is irrelevant for understanding scientific concepts. I learn something new here everyday.”

    That is not what I said or even suggested. It doesn’t matter how intelligent i am the model for cause and effect remains the same.

    But your intelligence does matter for understanding the science supporting the cause and effect assessments. Which was precisely my point. And it was dead on target.

    As far as restructuring your comments.
    1. It would be easier to assess that if you would actually reply to me so there was a hotlink to see my full comment easily. But that would rather defeat your purpose I suspect.
    2. Please point out exactly how you think I restructured your comments. I think I have been quite good about responding to your comments in detail with full quotes, but perhaps I missed something.

    You say that homosexual behavior is determined by genes, a relational correllation is insifficient to the make that conclusion.

    I don’t believe I have said that anywhere. Please point to a specific quote. Until then I will consider you a liar who is not worth my time.

    We low IQ people like to stick the foundations that serve as building blocks for more complex analysis

    I actually agree with that being a good approach. How about you give a simple enumeration of what you consider those building blocks to me? To my eyes you are more jumping to the end and saying “you can’t modify genes and see the effect so this is all worthless.” That is the opposite of what you say here about foundations.

    Now if you care to point out the specific gene, genes, genetic model or the assigned alleles that produce intelligence or other cognitive processes in humans and perhaps which ones are unique to whites . . . . I am sincerely open to the matter.

    I doubt any of them are unique to whites (I love false dichotomies, exactly the same or unique to one group), but the SNP frequencies differ. I also doubt you are sincerely interested, but this comment discusses some specific SNPs with different frequencies:
    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/the-worlds-iq-86/?showcomments#comment-2079659
    The old links are broken (I think because the Geography of Genetic Variants Browser has moved to hg19) so here are some new links. If anyone wants to search themselves it is easiest to use the rsIds so I include them here.

    rs41293013 https://popgen.uchicago.edu/ggv/?data=%221000genomes%22&chr=1&pos=84417585
    rs34811474 https://popgen.uchicago.edu/ggv/?data=%221000genomes%22&chr=4&pos=25408838
    rs80170948 https://popgen.uchicago.edu/ggv/?data=%221000genomes%22&chr=5&pos=64020316
    rs71367283 https://popgen.uchicago.edu/ggv/?data=%221000genomes%22&chr=18&pos=50052084

  323. res says:
    @Gene Su

    You have to give him credit for being so clear about how little value there is to taking him seriously.

  324. res says:
    @Peter Frost

    “I have to respectfully resign now.” – An academic never resigns, unless he’s very old. Many academic debates go on for years and years, even decades. And you want to give up after a few days?

    This is Chanda’s go to tactic when he starts receiving arguments he is unable to answer. I have experienced it before. Let’s review some other threads of his.

    http://www.unz.com/article/why-harvard-is-right-to-discriminate-against-asians/?showcomments#comment-3464072

    I really can’t do this any more. And yes, I am running away!

    Thanks. Bye.

    This one is more interesting because he seems to think I was running away, but then he utterly failed to respond to my detailed follow on comment.
    http://www.unz.com/article/my-last-word-on-the-scrabble-and-iq-debate-2/?showcomments#comment-2016543

    Well, if you’re done you’re done. We can give you arguments but can’t force you to think, nor are we interested in that.

    I particularly enjoyed the patronizing tone in that one. Especially given the utter lack of response to my thoughtful follow up discussing selective emigration in detail:
    http://www.unz.com/article/my-last-word-on-the-scrabble-and-iq-debate-2/?showcomments#comment-2016734

    I am disappointed that Chanda is running away from the current thread before I have even begun to engage with his selective immigration argument in depth here.

  325. Factorize says:

    Very interesting article in the January issue of Intelligence about racial differences in heritability in the United States. It might help direct the discussion on the thread towards peer reviewed literature.

    • Replies: @res
  326. @Peter Frost

    “are you going to publicly correct this idea [of high Igbo achievement] that you’ve blogged on so many times?”

    – Why should I? I wasn’t referring primarily to your data. I was referring primariy to the historical evidence. As I’ve said repeatedly, CGSE scores are not a reliable proxy for cognitive ability, certainly not the genetic component of cognitive ability.

    [Sigh]. I have not asked you to correct the idea “of high Igbo achievement” but the idea of high Igbo achievement as the explanation for the impressive performance of Africans on the GCSEs.

    And yes, your statements have been specifically about my GCSE data. From one of your Unz articles a few years ago (http://www.unz.com/pfrost/no-blacks-arent-all-alike-who-said-they-were/ ):

    To what degree is African success Igbo success? If we go back to Chanda’s first article, we see that high African achievers are overwhelmingly “Nigerians” (Chisala, 2015a). This is evident in a chart that lists mean % difference from the mean English GCSE score in 2010-2011 by ethnicity:

    Nigerian: +21.8

    Ghanaian: +5.5
    Sierra Leone: +1.4
    Somali: -23.7
    Congolese: -35.3

    Clearly, high academic achievement is due to something that is very much present in Nigeria, a little bit in Ghana, and not at all in Somalia and Congo. Could this something be the Igbo? …

    Conclusion

    What happens when we remove Igbo students from the GCSE results? How well do the other Africans do? To some degree, Chanda answered that question in his first article. African excellence seems to be overwhelmingly Igbo excellence.

    Yes: I’m not very good at continuing pointless discussions forever.

    • Replies: @Chanda Chisala
  327. res says:
    @Factorize

    Are you referring to the Rindermann article?
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289619301886
    For anyone interested there is some discussion at
    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/experts-intelligence-race/

    If that is not what you meant, please give a reference.

  328. eah says:
    @Gene Su

    General info for you and everyone else: there is an IGNORE feature for commenters here — click on AGREE/DISAGREE/ETC, and then IGNORE COMMENTER — their comments will now be hidden — you can still view any specific comment by that user if you want; also a mouse over will show the comment if someone else is replying to an IGNOREd commenter.

    I was reluctant to use this feature at first, but now I have a fairly lengthy IGNORE list for repeat offenders whose bullshit I just don’t want to see anymore — an IGNORE list also compresses a comment thread, making if easier/faster to scroll thru.

    Note: You must allow unz.com to set cookies.

  329. @Ali

    https://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2017/09/05/bad-medicine-the-sickening-truth-about-britains-foreign-doctorsbad-medicine-the-sickening-truth-about-britains-foreign-doctors/

    Yes, and as to point 4 serious consequences are arising. Namely a profusion of medical malpractice and sexual abuse by non White medical practitioners. To that can be added fraud, and racism, and possibly even homicide.

    “In March it was reported that “1 in 6 doctors convicted of sex offences are still able to practice medicine,” and last year it emerged that more than 1,000 doctors in the U.K. have criminal convictions for offences including possession of child pornography, cruelty to children, soliciting prostitution, and the theft of drugs.”

    A white doctor who sought to assure patient safety from foreign doctors, Mr Peter Duffy, was subjected to a decade long campaign of harrassment until he resigned with an employment settlement for suffering wrongful conduct.

    Immigrant doctors despite being 25% of the medical profession in the UK constitute 80% of the tribunal adjudications for malpractice.

    Then this is how the Jews and Marxists at the BBC report it:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-48653150/bame-doctors-more-likely-to-be-investigated-than-white-ones

    That black doctors are subject to referral bias. Not that they’re incompetent criminals at a ridiculously high incidence in real life.

    And now the GMC is investigating the people trying to protect their patients, instead of the immigrant and domestic foreign doctors raping children, stealing drugs, cutting off the wrong appendages, committing fraud, sucking patients penises who are under general anaesthetic and treating white people who give them their opportunity like worthless scum.

    So I think Chanda is wrong. Based on this, why should the culture be any different in the medical schools? Or for GSCEs?

    I would imagine there is the same kind of favourable discrimination for foreigners in the accreditation phase as well as the professional phase.

    So just so the Africans in this thread understand. An African rapes a patient. This is referred to the General Medical Council, and the GMC says they will investigate the referrers for racism.

    Get absolutely out of the West. Get out.

    So I think the commenters like Res and Peter Stone are right.

    Cheating syndicates are famous in Australia among the neo Australians. There is no way you go from 38% to over 60% in one year organically. If whites did that it would be considered a national tragedy.

    This is what turns formerly Liberal white men into actually pretty hardened activists. It’s not random. Nigerians and other invaders really are doing heinous things to people for no reason.

    And when the powers that be pill the trigger on the economic collapse there will be a readjusting of the debts and balances on the ledger of justice.

    • Replies: @Ali1
  330. eah says:
    @Ali

    4. Check out the ethnic minority representation of Medicine students. British Africans and South Asians are disproportionately overrepresented as Medical students

    There is no such thing as a “British African” — if Whites cannot keep South Africa, a country they built, and farmers in Zimbabwe cannot keep their farms, then Africans cannot be British — so fuck off with that.

    Also there’s no such thing as a ‘British South Asian’ if you were implying that — the Paki rape gangs targeted white girls — British girls.

    Non-whites are also often over-represented in US medical schools — due to affirmative action — the BBC advertises jobs specifically reserved for non-whites — are we supposed to believe there is no affirmative action in medical school admission in the UK?

    Lastly, you know what else is true about African and Asian doctors in the UK? — they are dramatically over-represented in medical mal- and mis-practice cases, especially egregious ones:

    Bad Medicine II: the Escalating Problem of Third World Doctors

    • Replies: @BengaliCanadianDude
    , @Ali1
  331. Factorize says:

    res, the systematic review and meta-analysis; apparently one of the authors is on-thread. res, I think i will need some help thinking this one through: racial groups in America living in disadvantaged environments don’t have lower heritability?

    There is some great reading in the last issue or two of Intelligence. Last issue had a large intelligence sample from Sudan. Sudan appears to be a real psychometric leader in Africa. You might not want to know the answer ( ~80 IQ), though it is important to do the testing and make informed choices about how to develop your nation. This actually demonstrates a fair amount of intelligence on their part.

    There was also a scientometric analysis of controversies in intelligence research. I was very unaware that we are now right at an all time high in nastiness in discussing matters of intelligence. The Nessie curve has went off the chart (there was recently an extreme outlier, I think this was ISIR in London). The article suggests that if one becomes embroiled in a disagreement about intelligence, remain polite, refrain from ad hominems and don’t apologize for scientifically reasonable statements made in good faith.

    The article you noted had much more content related to this website than I would have imagined. unz has higher quality psychometric content than the New York Times, Economist etc. ? This is the center of the universe for honest discussions about intelligence? I think that I will attempt to be more polite to by fellow colleagues on unz threads.

    Lots of great reading to catch up on this weekend in the psychometric journals. Enough ad hominems, start reading!

    • Replies: @res
  332. @res

    Just a tip – you’re arguing with a negro. Perhaps knowing that will alleviate some of your frustration.

  333. @Chanda Chisala

    “my interest is really only the people who study the issue sufficiently enough that they know the facts and the technical issues involved.”

    Right. That’s why you had it published it on an open website.

    Hey Chanda from Wakanda, you ever held a real job? Like, providing a product or service within a highly competitive market comprised of very thin margins for error? Or has your entire life been a product of subsidization?

    I find it hilarious to be condescended to by an individual who likely has no idea which end of a hammer strikes which end of a nail. Technical issues, indeed.

  334. “and there is the ultimate — your just to stupid to understand and its irrelevant anyway . . .”

    I made no such comment. And here I is where it ends. I have done this dance before. I have to go back unravel some some comment I was accused of making a comment i did not make as is the case here.

    My history here is very clear — I don’t make personal attacks — So before i do the dance and have to go back and clean up false accusations.

    Genetic cause — of course in human behavior genetics is foundational — no kidding. But if you can’t pinpoint the specifics cause effect relationship for human intelligence — cognition and you rely on explanations of correllations then you are filling the spaces with speculations of what might be — not what it. It’;s not complex. It requires no medical degree.

    Simply:

    xbter why genes are the cause of intelligence — we know because when do m to xbter — we get the following results. to intelligence or cognition. And in this scenario, its noting what genetic difference to said gene exists in whites to the same that is different. mind you i certainly get the value of the detailed gymnastics to make numerous potential links optimum word

    “potential”.

    ———————————————————————
    “I doubt any of them are unique to whites (I love false dichotomies, exactly the same or unique to one group), but the SNP frequencies differ. I also doubt you are sincerely interested, but this comment discusses some specific SNPs with different frequencies:
    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/the-worlds-iq-86/?showcomments#comment-2079659”

    Au contraire.

    This is not a matter of false dichotomies. You have clear different artifact.

    whites and blacks

    they score differently based on a a cause of a genetic source

    Note the source and note the difference SNPs identify tangible relations in human biology/chemistry – their links to cognition, and I am going step out on a huge limb are
    unknown. That search is ongoing.

    It is here that i say environment matters and it matters a lot. And that is what the article in my view goes to. That given l conditions in which all things are as similarly situated — skin color is not indicative of higher intelligence,

    a legitimate response might that the sample size is to small to make a generalized statement, however, the history of intelligence testing is founded on over generalized conclusions based on overgeneralized models in my view. Hence the need for qualifiers.

    • Replies: @res
    , @Flint Clint
  335. What would the data look like if each racial group taken broadly (i.e. blacks and whites) were broken down by decile?

    Would the top black decile in the U.K. (which would presumably include the clever Africans) outscore the top white decile?

    What would each decile look like side by side?

    It seems distorting to compare the cleverest blacks to the entire group of whites.

    • Replies: @res
  336. res says:
    @Factorize

    Thanks! I had not seen that article from John Fuerst et al.

    I think i will need some help thinking this one through: racial groups in America living in disadvantaged environments don’t have lower heritability?

    I agree, that is surprising to me as well. But that’s why we (they) do the research ; )

    This paragraph seems relevant:

    While Turkheimer et al. (2003) reported a Heritability × SES interaction for intelligence, they did not find a significant Heritability × Race/Ethnicity interaction (Turkheimer, personal communication, October 4, 2013). The same phenomena of an ACE × SES, but not an ACE × Race/Ethnicity interaction was found both in the Early Childhood Longitudinal Study (ECLS) analyzed by Rhemtulla and Tucker-Drob (2012) and in the Add Health sample analyzed by Beaver et al. (2013), Schwartz (2015), and others (Cf. Guo & Stearns, 2002). These results are consistent with the Δh2 for SES contrasted with race, as found by Scarr-Salapatek (1971; see also Hart et al., 2013). Why this is the case is not clear. Regardless, we conclude that ACE × SES interactions, when found, are not being driven by ACE × Race/Ethnicity interactions and, as well, do not elicit ACE × Race/Ethnicity interactions.

    But what I don’t understand is if race and SES are correlated and (I think) SES was not corrected for in the current paper then why don’t we see an ACE x Race interaction driven by the ACE x SES interaction?

    I assume the scientometric analysis you refer to is the one discussed here:
    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/persecution-of-iq-researchers/
    I found that a welcome reference for supporting the idea of negative consequences for researchers on these topics.

    • Replies: @mikemikev
  337. res says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    “and there is the ultimate — your just to stupid to understand and its irrelevant anyway . . .”

    I made no such comment.

    You are shameless. It is right there in black and white in comment 306. At the end of the next to last paragraph.

    Here is a direct link to that comment so anyone who wants to can confirm that you are lying:
    http://www.unz.com/article/reply-to-lance-welton-why-do-blacks-outperform-whites-in-uk-schools/#comment-3595103

    My history here is very clear — I don’t make personal attacks — So before i do the dance and have to go back and clean up false accusations.

    More shamelessness. At this point it is very clear that you both:
    1. Make personal attacks.
    2. Lie.

    This is not a matter of false dichotomies.

    Do you even know what a false dichotomy is? Because that was an excellent example of one.

    I sincerely hope you are trolling. Because if you are as much of a stupid liar as that comment seems to indicate then I feel sorry for you.

  338. res says:
    @James Braxton

    That is a good question. Obscuring tail issues like that is one of problems with using percent meeting a not terribly demanding (e.g. more than half manage it) threshold as a metric.

  339. @Chanda Chisala

    “Neither was this a *longitudinal* report.”

    – Who said it was? I suspect that many of the students in the 2009 to 2011 period were the same individuals, but the point is irrelevant.

    I really don’t have the strength to continue the back-and-forth on the same point, but I will just say this one more time since I see now that there is some possibility that you’ve genuinely misunderstood this data. Your statement above “students in 2009 to 2011 period were the same individuals” confirms what I suspected. Apparently you still don’t see why I said it’s not a *longitudinal* study [with emphasis], so I’ll try this one more time: that 411 is not for 2009 to 2011. It is ONLY for one of those years.

    So, again: WE DO NOT KNOW how many were in the other two years (maybe you can check the document and find the figure). In short, it is POSSIBLE that there were only 9 Yoruba in the following year and maybe 18 in the previous one. These are not the scores of THE SAME INDIVIDUALS. The GCSEs are written by any pupil ONLY ONCE, so in the next year it was ANOTHER GROUP, with a TOTALLY different ethnic composition and different years of having been immigrants in the UK.

    But even if you had not misunderstood this particular point in data, you should have doubted your bizarre interpretation of “learning to game the system” by seeing that these results *did not always go in the same direction*, as I tried to explain before.

    The Igbo pass rates from 2009-2010-2011 were 100% to 76% to 80%, while the Yoruba trend went in a different direction (39 to 68 to 75) and the Twi-Fante in yet another direction (69 to 84 to 66) . If it was true that “West Africans” or even “Nigerians” had just learnt to “game the system,” the pass rates are likely to go in *exactly the same direction,* at similar levels of pass rates, and probably only upwards – even if your weird assumption that it was the same individuals in every year had been correct.

  340. mikemikev says:
    @res

    Isn’t Turkheimer’s ACE x SES interaction just an unreplicated outlier?

    • Replies: @res
  341. @eah

    Your own picture shows that Whites get favourable treatment over nonwhite asians

  342. @RobbieSmith

    All fine and good but the SAT these days is highly practiceable and it does not correlate to IQ tests as much as it used to

  343. Ali1 says:
    @Flint Clint

    Excuse me, I couldn’t return the comment from my original name.

    I’m sorry, but this response is a serious misconduct. It addresses almost nothing about what I said, and is simply erroneous and dangerously misleading.

    I am aware that *foreign* doctors have been involved in such malpractices. But it has *nothing* to do with the medical students I am referring to. I should have been clearer. There’s an overrepresentation of British South Asian and African medical students. The source that you posted is talking about foreign doctors! It’s irrelevant to me whether you believe that these South Asians and Africans should be considered British, but that’s how society (the official statistics) perceives them. And that is who I was specifically referring to. So to be clear, there’s an overrepresentation of British South Asian and British African medical students relative to the White British medical students. The foreign doctors are an addition to ethnic minorities who are born in the UK or have a British citizenship.

    https://www.bma.org.uk/connecting-doctors/community_focus/f/51/t/604
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D4oTqFUWAAE7YC9?format=png&name=small

    In short, your source has no application to the people I am talking about.

    • Replies: @Flint Clint
  344. bronek says:
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    Interesting comments. I resided in Europe for years. In the late 1960s or early 1970s the Uk’s 3rd World migrants commenced arriving in large numbers. When ambulating in once cultured areas the change was obvious. Thus, once pleasant trips in once-GB stopped. Today scholars pen about the trust factor; trust being higher amongst those who are similar. Not sure if any studies were done on once-GB in that era. Thank you for your fascinating commentary. I hope you continue to elicit your opinions. The Brits of today are indeed a people suffering from being invaded and are a conquered community. Seems their 5th column is their politico element.

  345. @EliteCommInc.

    It’s interesting to go back and read Jim Flynn’s book ‘What is Intelligence’.

    Whatever my views on western sovereignty and the plight of the white British etc it’s important to objectively evaluate relative intelligence.

    Chanda has presented a strong case.

    I’m not an intelligence expert, but I’ll examine the issue as best I can. I’m a cynical Gen Z with a few businesses, so I’m not stupid.

    First can we please not be silly and argue IQ doesn’t measure anything. IQ for the kids in question doing the GSCE’s commonly at age 16 is derived from the ability to cognitively perform on tests on: information, arithmetic, vocabulary, comprehension, picture completion, block design, object assembly, coding, picture arrangement, similarities.

    g loading is just a measure of correlations between these – people who score highly on one tend to score highly on all.

    So IQ is a real thing which measures real aptitudes, related to real life.

    The strong African performance on GSCE’s and poor white working class performance is on record. There is no point dismissing it outright. So what’s the reason?

    Reasons given in this thread include:

    a) superior genetic IQ for the African sub-sets (Sierra Leone, Nigerian) getting higher marks;
    b) commensurate or lower genetic IQ for the same, but a superior environment to working class public school whites in the UK;
    c) cheating, to explain the incongruous increase in scores from 39% to 68% in a single calendar year;
    d) selection bias (i.e. higher then average intelligence for the individual Africans sampled);
    e) some combination of all of the above.

    Just on c) – it would be absurd and unfair I think to say that ‘all’ the Nigerian children are cheating. I don’t think that would be possible. Chanda is probably right on that.

    But if we’re debating IQ, those numbers do look very suspect from an IQ stand-point.

    Jim Flynn says in ‘What is Intelligence’ on page 91:

    “Convention puts the percentage of adult IQ variance attributable to environment at .25. The square root of that (regression coefficient) is .50, which stands as the correlation between IQ and environment”.

    “This entails a ratio of 2:1 between environment and IQ, that is, if the environmental gap between two individuals increases by one SD, their IQs will diverge by 0.5 SD’s”.

    That is the conventional model of ‘hard hereditarians’ Jim opposes with his ‘Flynn-Dickens’ model which puts a higher weighting on environment (4:1) – so environment has always been considered important, lets not mislead on ‘genetic determinism’.

    So there is your benchmark for the African environmental effect.

    If the African IQ is say 70 in Africa but expresses at more then 100 in the UK the environment gap must be slightly in excess of 4 SD’s, which I would have to agree with Chanda is absurd for Nigeria.

    However, that raises some interesting issues.

    That improvement from 38% to 69% in one year has to come from somewhere organic if it isn’t cheating. Adopting Ricardian vice lets just give it a factor of 2. Using GSCE as a measure of IQ, IQ had to go up by a factor of 2 in a single year from environment or genetics to explain the increase.

    It shouldn’t matter if these aren’t the same individuals year to year. If they are taken as representative of Nigerians and any other subset as a group, they should be representative of that group.

    That is the argument that is being made to now relegate whites to being lower IQ then blacks in the UK.

    If it’s purely environmental based IQ Chanda has to argue in fact that there ‘is’ in excess of a 4 SD difference in environment between the UK and Nigeria. That’s if there were any Nigerians who got to the UK from Nigeria and then sat the tests.

    This is because Chanda has:

    a) argued that GSCE’s are a valid measure of IQ; and
    b) used the measured IQ’s in Africa from Jensen in his argument to argue their absurdity, so I think he has to take them as given.

    One way to resolve the UK environmental effect would be to have Nigerians raised and matriculating in Nigeria sit the GSCE tests there using the same curriculum. If Nigerians still performed much better then the UK whites with IQ’s of 70-85 then IQ needs to be reexamined. That’s because there should be no UK environmental factor, and you would expect UK students with IQ’s of 100 to do better.

    That of course assumes the UK IQ’s really are 100. I know whites are just used a median, but IQ’s have been dropping in the West now for some time. Maybe the IQ’s have fallen and whites aren’t the median anymore. That should be reexamined.

    For the Nigerians who were born and raised in the United Kingdom we would need to see an IQ test for the 38% test, and then another one for the 69%. In that calendar year if GSCE is a valid measure of IQ we should see a massive increase in the student’s IQ’s to account for the 2factor increase in GSCE. You wouldn’t expect the same 2factor increase in IQ, but you would need to see a massive increase, based on environment quality increasing exponentially in a single year.

    That’s because correct me if I’m mistaken but GSCE is being used a measure of IQ?

    or

    Chanda has to argue that Nigerians genetic intelligence increased by 30 points in one year as a cohort, which is impossible. At least, I think by all conventional and current knowledge.

    or

    Chanda has to argue for a higher baseline IQ for the African individuals he is using in his African sample, which supports the selection bias rationale.

    Just because Jensen measured university graduates in Nigeria with IQ’s of 80-85 doesn’t mean the individuals who emigrated to the UK had IQ’s that low. Nigeria is a massive country of 190million people.

    Jim Flynn says that African Americans have IQ’s of 95.4. It is quite possible Jensen’s and anyone elses measurements need to be updated.

    Or

    Chanda has to argue that IQ is meaningless. Which seems to conflict with the domain as a whole – because g is a real thing that has been seen to have meaning in the real world regardless of it’s source, environment or genetics.

    These to me seem to the choices.

    We need an explanation for a 2-factor increase in GSCE scores in a single year based on IQ increases in that single year.

    Otherwise we are going to have to assume that Mr Stone is unfortunately correct.

    Just so everyone understands, that kind of miraculous increase in GSCE performance would attract unlimited government funding from any program that succesfully induced it.

    Mr Chisala is sitting on a goldmine.

    He could become the next Mansa Musa or Kush Pharaoh if he takes that program international and doubles the academic proficiency of minorities the world over. Hell, even sell it to the whites and Chinese.

    I’m only being slightly tongue in cheek.

    If GSCE is connected to IQ and IQ’s have increased so massively in a single year that means that Mr Chisala has discovered the holy grail of social science – how to increase the IQ of a human being in a meaningful way.

    Because if I go and look on say, the Cochrane Collaboration at meta-analyses addressing this issue I find nothing.

    So it’s a strong ostensible case – but Mr Chisala needs to explain that 2 factor increase in GSCE scores with respect to IQ gains in one year or

    It’s cheating, or

    Mr Chisala needs to show that all prior IQ experts like Jim Flynn have spent their lives studying something totally meaningless.

    I am quite open to being wrong, more intelligent and experienced people are on this blog then me.

    • Replies: @Flint Clint
  346. Ali1 says:
    @eah

    Please read my above response and try to be civil.

    I’ll entertain you with a response. It’s always necessary to treat people as individuals. The situation of Whites in Zimbabwe and South Africa, to the extent that it does exist, should be condemned by any decent person.

    ‘British’ South Asians constitute Indians, Pakistanis, and Bangladeshis. As I’m sure you already know, not all of these communities target young White girls. If they do, it’s nowhere near to the extent that Pakistani gangs do. And not all, or even most, Pakistanis target White British girls. So none of what you said has any bearing on people’s identity. If you don’t believe them to be British, that is your opinion and there are more appropriate locations to discuss that matter — including the grooming gang incidents. It’s worth adding that British South Asians actually commit crime at around similar levels to White Brits, and even lower crime rates once you adjust for age.

    There is no affirmative action for racial or ethnic background in the UK. Including in medical admissions. The BBC is not the same as University selection. In effect, Universities do not require affirmative action because of the promising educational performances by ethnic minorities. Your point makes no sense, since African Americans are populated in Universities relative to their population size while in the UK, South Asians and Africans are distinctly overrepresented. Affirmative action would only require them to represent their population size.

    UK ‘Asian’ refers to South Asian, since Britain’s history with regards to immigration has been different to other places. The important distinction between UK South Asians and US South Asians is that, the UK’s South Asian population can trace its origins to the mid-20th century, where they were brought in as low-skilled workers. The USA on the other hand has had a selective immigration policy from South Asia. This is an important distinction. UK’s South Asian population can be described as a better representation of their country of origin than the USA’s. In fact, there’s some indication that the UK’s Pakistani populace was negatively selected for traits such as intelligence. They predominantly come from an area called Mirpur in Azad Kashmir. This was considered one of the most backwards areas in Pakistan until remittances from the UK allowed relative prosperity. It’s also important to remember that Pakistanis, back home and in the UK, have high rates of consanguinity. Studies from the 90s and early 2000s suggested that 50% of Pakistanis marry their first cousins in the UK, and that number increases to 70% in places like Bradford. Inbreeding has an extremely adverse effect on intelligence. We can already estimate through CATs and GCSEs that British Pakistanis have an average IQ of around 95. If we can eliminate consanguineous practices in this community, we can expect them to be performing at the same level as British Indians (and thus, better than White Brits).

    Inbreeding and IQ: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0109585

  347. Ali1 says:
    @Alden

    These ad hoc explanations are irritating. British ethnic minorities are actually overrepresented in grammar schools. I personally attended an independent private school (which basically has the best students), and I can confirm that ethnic minorities were overrepresented. I don’t know what you consider “middle and upper class”, but only 6% of students go to private schools. That’s not “most” in my book.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3730556/More-one-four-grammar-pupils-ethnic-minority.html

  348. @Ali1

    I wouldn’t be so confident.

    1 million white girls per Linda Champion didn’t rape themselves and they weren’t all recent foreign emigres who engaged in the rape, ‘Ali’.

    So what exactly are you saying – are you saying that all those foreigners who are the same race as the British born foreigners are totally and completely different?

    That doesn’t compute – 1 million English white girls have been raped and it must have included some domestics.

    Compare the number of tribunal cases with the number (1000) of current doctors practicing in spite of sexual offence against children.

    How many do you want to bet are called ‘Ali’.

    I’m so tired of black and brown sanctimony and gormlessness.

    Here, you want an example of an ‘Ali’ who joined the rape who wasn’t a foreign doctor?

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-47413418

    Here – Lord ‘Ahmed’ of Rotherham, former Labour party peer.

    One of the first Muslim peers ever, appointed by Tony Blair, and he was a homosexual sex offender who indecently assaulted little boys. And then presided over the racial and religiously motivated rape torture of white girls in England.

    How appropriate is that.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/rotherham-grooming-gang-sexual-abuse-muslim-islamist-racism-white-girls-religious-extremism-a8261831.html

    This is what you people do.

    You rape. You rape white women, and you rape truth, and you rape the good and the beautiful.

    I don’t care for your protestations and bleating.

    No Muslim has ever acknowledged their rape. No dindu in Britain has ever acknowledged their rape.

    People will find the domestic abusers the same as the foreign. Except, you are all foreign, there is no difference.

    • Replies: @Ali2
    , @Ali2
  349. Ali2 says:
    @Flint Clint

    Please cite this nonexistent claim. I find it difficult to believe that you’re from the UK if you think 1 million White British girls were raped. But I’d love to see your source!

    • Replies: @Flint Clint
  350. Ali2 says:
    @Flint Clint

    You can find white members of Parliament or the Lords who have committed sexual offenses against young children. I have seen no indication that Asians are overrepresented in this matter — anecdotes don’t prove a point for you. Here’s one example: https://www.thedailybeast.com/british-lord-accused-of-raping-boys-inside-parliament

    Absolutely ridiculous. I haven’t raped anyone. You have serious issues.

    Muslims have confronted grooming gangs, including one of the main person who brought it to light. Here: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3528212/nazir-afzal-cps-rochdale-sex-gang/

    That’s your claim falsified. Will it change your bigoted views? Probably not.

    Not that any of this has much relevance to me. I’m not a Muslim.

  351. res says:
    @mikemikev

    The Fuerst paper in Intelligence seems to think the ACE x SES interaction is real. I don’t really know much about that and would recommend looking at the paper.

  352. @Flint Clint

    Actually, what am I talking about.

    Chisala

    Chanda-man

    Give me the magic IQ beans.

    My IQ is high but it could be much higher.

    I want to increase it by 2 factor in a Calendar year.

    If the dirt in the UK is that magic for Nigerians but so toxic for white people I think I want some Nigerian beans to go with my Zupa.

    I’m probably wrong – there will be some basic explanation for the increase, like the tests in the second year weren’t sat by Nigerians at all, but Atlanteans.

    But we’ll see.

    Nigerians are now the pinnacle of human cognition – and an answer to these questions must be forthcoming post-haste from our lords and masters.

  353. @Ali2

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/child-sex-abuse-gangs-could-5114029

    “Child sex abuse gangs could have assaulted ONE MILLION youngsters in the UK”

    A few tiny towns, thousands of victims.

    This is the number that we have.

    Absent a full Royal Commission that no doubt will be executed with the utmost dispatch by peers like Lord Ahmed, that is the number that must apply.

    The onus is on noble and holy virtuous muslims who think it’s wrong to demand a Royal Commission and fund it using the trillions held in Gulf Sovereign hedge funds.

    Of course, if Muslims feel this attribution is unfair, and it’s all evil white Britons unfairly engaged in Islamophobia despite all the publicised instances of court hearings involving non-Britons they’ll fund a full investigation against those white pedophiles unfairly exculpated.

    Because as you say – it’s just the ‘Pakistanis’ right? It couldn’t be a virtuous Indian or Nigerian.

    ‘non-existent claim’.

    A British member of Parliament made the claim. And for making the claim she was fired, and her life was threatened. Muslims can sue the Mirror for defamation if they please.

    For that claim, Ms Linda Champion was fired, because as Muslims MP Naz Shah said, white girl victims should shut their fat mouths for the good of diversity.

    Wait so you peronally haven’t raped anyone? What a pity. Those aren’t the rules anymore. White privilege doesn’t depend on individual culpability this is entirely group culpability. I’m totally guilty for absolutely everything in the world.

    Thus, so are you.

    Non-Muslims called Ali then should also fund an investigation then. They can clear their name so unfairly impugned.

    It’s all so tiresome.

    I’m probably on a million lists at this point. But whatevs.

  354. annamaria says:
    @CanSpeccy

    Actually, my reaction was on your lamentations re “temporary reprieve from Chinese tyranny.”

    It is not the US business to meddle in China’s affairs (as well as in the affairs of Venezuela, Argentina, Bolivia, Ukraine, Georgia…) Nobody needs the NED-promoted “temporary reprieve from the tyranny,” which is always followed by large-scale looting conducted by the likes of Bidens and such paragons of morality as Monsanto and NATO.

    Exhibit one — the zionized Ukraine where natives have finally realized that they were used as pawns by selected predators and profiteers, both local and American. According to the “anti-tyranny” mythology, American ziocons came to “fight corruption” in Ukraine (see Bidens and Kolomojsky). In the course of “fighting tyranny,” American ziocons have united their efforts with local banderites (self-proclaimed neo-Nazi) just to prove to the whole world how much the Jewish Lobby cares about victims of WWII. The profiteering schema of holobiz is, of course, a different matter.

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