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Pizzagate
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Man Motivated by ‘Pizzagate’ Conspiracy Theory Arrested in Washington Gunfire
Eric Lipton, The New York Times, December 5th, 2016

Beginning in 1997, in an English town of more than 100,000 people, eight Pakistani men stood at the core of a group involving as many as three hundred suspects who abused, gang-raped, pimped and trafficked, by the most conservative estimate, well over a thousand of the town’s young girls for years.

The police were eventually accused of not just turning a blind eye, but of participating in the abuse — even supplying the Pakistani gangs with drugs and tipping them off when they heard of colleagues searching for children they knew to be in the gangs’ possession.

Others were afraid of investigating the gangs or calling attention to their behavior because it would have been politically incorrect to accuse the town’s ethnic community of such a rampant and heinous crime — in the words of one English writer, “Fears of appearing racist trumped fears of more children being abused.”

But when this story first broke, guess where it appeared?

Here’s how a blogger writing under the name Mehrdad Amanpour tells the story of how the story first started reaching people:

Some years ago, a friend sent me a shocking article. It said hundreds of British girls were being systematically gang-raped by Muslim gangs. It claimed this was being covered-up.

I’ve never had time for conspiracy theories, especially when they look as hateful as those in the article. So I checked the links and sources in the piece. I found an American racist-far-right website and from there, saw the original source was a similarly unpleasant website in the UK.

I did a brief search for corroboration from reputable mainstream sources. I found none. So I wrote a curt reply to my friend: “I’d appreciate it if you didn’t send me made-up crap from neo–Nazi websites.”

Some months later, I read the seminal exposé of the (mainly) ethnic-Pakistani grooming gang phenomenon by Andrew Norfolk in The Sunday Times.

I was stunned and horrified — not just that these vile crimes were indeed happening and endemic, but that they really were being ignored and “covered-up” by public authorities and the mainstream media.

The Rotherham child sexual exploitation scandal first “broke” in the far-right blogosphere. The accusation they made was that these gangs were being allowed to operate undisturbed because everyone was too afraid of “appearing racist” to properly investigate them . . . and nobody listened to the far-right bloggers who were breaking this story because they were afraid of “appearing racist” if they gave any credibility to those far-right sources, too. Never mind that it seemed paranoid to rely on bloggers to report truths like these when the allegations were so wide-reaching, involving a literal conspiracy within the police force.

And yet, years after no one was willing to take them seriously, the far-right blogosphere turned out to be right.

Well over a thousand (mostly) white young girls were being abused by (mostly) Pakistani gangs.

And the authorities were covering it up.

We are now, once again, in the stage of an evolving scandal that Mehrdad Amanpour described his experience with above. Just to be clear, I’m not going to commit myself to the idea that this is going to be as huge as Rotherham was. We should be careful: we don’t know what would or wouldn’t be confirmed with a proper investigation. The question here is not whether we’ve gotten to the bottom of this online. The question is whether there is enough here to justify thinking there should be a proper investigation.

And the parallel with Rotherham is that the relatively small number of people asking for that are mostly the loathsome kinds of people who run “racist far-right websites.” So, since the claims are inherently conspiratorial, and the mainstream doesn’t want to be associated with those people who are talking about it, it is once again all too easy to just dismiss the claims out of hand as paranoia run wild.

Again, the evolution of the Rotherham child sexual exploitation scandal was an extremelypainful lesson that the mainstream can be wrong and the “paranoid racist far-right” can be right. And that lesson was far too expensive to simply let go to waste.

The name of this scandal is Pizzagate.

It gets the name for two reasons: first, because at the center of the scandal are high-level Washington insiders who own a handful of businesses in the DC area, including a couple pizzerias (Comet Ping Pong and Besta Pizza), who have fallen under suspicion for involvement in a child sex abuse ring. Second, because the first questions arose in peoples’ minds as a result of some very bizarre emails revealed by Wikileaks in The Podesta Emails that, quite simply, just sound strange (and usually involve weird references to pizza). One of the strangest emails involves Joe Podesta being asked this question: “The realtor found a handkerchief (I think it has a map that seems pizza-related). Is it yours?”

The evidence is of wildly varying levels of quality, ranging from the pareidolia of “Jesus is appearing to me in my toast” to “wait, that’s actually pretty damn creepy.” The mountain of claims and observations and speculations being compiled in places like Voat and Steemit are too overwhelming for any one person to hope to wade through sorting wheat from chaff, and while I don’t intend to try, I will summarize some just a little bit of it here.

While many of these claims are wild speculation over coincidences (though by no means all of them are), at some point I think a bunch of weird coincidences involving pedophilia and kids becomes sort of damning in and of itself. In one email, Podesta is among those being invited to a farm and the host says, “Bonnie will be Uber Service to transport Ruby, Emerson, and Maeve Luzzatto (11, 9, and almost 7) so you’ll have some further entertainment, and they will be in [the] pool for sure.”

Could that have an innocent explanation? Sure, maybe. But inviting a group of adult men to a gathering and calling young children “further entertainment” while listing their ages is weird , whether it ends up having an explanation or not.

If I was getting messages that listed the ages of young children that would be in a pool…

fbi-pedophile-symbols-page1

And it turned out that the logo for my business contained a symbol strikingly close to the “little boy lover” logo used by pedophiles to signify that their interest is in young boys rather than girls . . .

besta

And the bands that showed up at my restaurant had albums called All the Children with images on the cover of a child putting phallic-shaped objects into his mouth . . .

allthechildren

. . . and were found making creepy jokes about pedophilia (in reference to Jared Fogle: “we all have our preferences . . .”) . . . and there were instagram photos coming out of kids (“jokingly?”) taped to the tables in my restaurant . . .

gross1

. . . frankly, I would start asking questions about myself.

Here are just a few of the more “institutional” coincidences involved in the story: one of the men on the small list of people found “liking” photos like this one on these individuals’ Instagram accounts is Arun Rao, the U.S. Attorney Chief, charged with prosecuting cases of child pornography.

Besta Pizza, the business whose logo so closely resembled the “little boy lover” logo, is owned by Andrew Kline, who was one of four attorneys in the Human Trafficking Prosecution Unit of the Department of Justice. Isn’t it just a little unusual that someone that high up in a human trafficking division would fail to notice the symbolism?

For yet another coincidence, Lauren Silsby-Gayler is the former director of The New Life Children’s Refuge in Haiti. It is a matter of public record that she was caught, prosecuted, and sent to jail while in that role for trying to abduct dozens of children, most of whom had homes and families. The main lawyer paid to represent Silsby-Gayler, “President of the Sephardic Jewish community in the Dominican Republic,” was himself suspected of involvement in human trafficking.

When the Clintons gained influence in the region, one of their first acts was to work to get Silsby-Gayler off the hook. Among the Podesta Wikileaks are State Department emails discussing their case. Meanwhile, she now works on the executive board of AlertSense . . . which collaborates with IPAWS to send out nation-wide Amber Alerts.

While some of the supposed “codewords” people have claimed to have identified in Pizzagate appear to be made up, there is at least one unambiguous instance: here is an Instagrammed photo posted by James Alefantis, the owner of Comet Ping Pong that appears innocent enough: a man carrying a young child with a beaded necklace draped around both of their necks.

chickenlovers The disturbing bit is that the photo uses the tag “#chickenlovers,” and “chicken lover” is in fact an established term to refer to a pedophile — someone who loves “chicken,” which is also unambiguously an established term to refer to underage children (you can see this in the gay slang dictionary subset of the Online Dictionary of Playground Slang).

Complain all you want about the “speculative” and “paranoid” online discussions of Pizzagate, but when you have clearer-cut cases like this one where James Alefantis absolutely, unquestionably did in fact post a photo of a man holding an infant and the one and only hashtag he used for the photo involved a term that unquestionably is a reference to pedophilia, in a context where it is clear that there is nothing else here that “chicken” could possibly have been referring to, the likelihood that more speculative claims might have truth to them is increased.

There is a 1994 documentary expose on NAMBLA (the North American Man/Boy Love Association) called Chicken Hawk. Here is yet another reference from a watchdog group from 2006, proving that this one existed well before Pizzagate surfaced. Another confirmed fact dug up by the paranoid right-wing conspiracy nuts on the Internet?

So here are a few more things we do know. We know that Bill Clinton has taken dozens of international flights on a plane colloquially known as the “Lolita Express” with Jeffrey Epstein, a man who spent 13 months in jail after being convicted of soliciting a 13-year-old prostitute. We know that Hillary Clinton’s staff knew that Anthony Weiner was sexting underage girls all the way back in 2011 — and covered it up. Guess whose laptop revealed evidence that Hillary Clinton went on flights on Jeffrey Epstein’s “Lolita Express” along with Bill? That’s right: Anthony Weiner’s.

Now do you understand why the mainstream media was so eager to spin these emails as just a “distraction” during the election?

The staff that ignored Weiner’s sexting of young children included John Podesta himself, whose brother Tony is one of the very men at the center of Pizzagate. Tony Podesta has rather warped tastes in art. For instance, he owns a bronze statue of a decapitated man in a contorted position identical to a well-known photograph of one of serial killer Jeffrey Dahmer’s victims:

podesta

(See here for the disturbing photo of the real victim.)

The same news story that features the image above also mentions the fact that John Podesta’s bedroom contains multiple images from a photographer “known for documentary-style pictures of naked teenagers in their parents’ suburban homes.”)

Furthermore, Tony Podesta’s favorite artist is Biljana Djurdjevic, whose art heavily features images of children in BDSM-esque positions in large showers. Here’s one with a row of young girls in a shower with their hands behind their backs in a position that suggests bondage:

Here’s one with a young boy in a shower tied up in the air with his hands over his head:

cwhxatyveaai_8v

In addition to Jeffrey Epstein, the Podesta brothers are also friends with convicted sex offender Clement Freud as well as convicted serial child molester Dennis Hastert.

We do know that the New York Times, which is now dismissing Pizzagate in its entirety as a hoax, is run by Mark Thompson — who was credibly accused a few years back of lying to help cover up a scandal involving another high-profile public figure involved in child sex abuse, Jimmy Savile, during his time as head of the BBC.

And we do know that this has happened before.

occultlawking_thumb

Lawrence King, the leader of the Black Republican Caucus, who sang the national anthem at the Republican convention in 1984, was accused by multiple claimed victims of trafficking and abusing boys out of the Boys Town charity for years. You can hear the chilling testimony from three people who claim to have been victimized by King in a documentary produced shortly after the events transpired.

You can hear the FBI, even after they received extensive testimony from victims, explain in their own words that they weren’t going to prosecute King because if anything were wrong with him, he would have been prosecuted by a lower authority already. Eventually, King was found “O. J. guilty” of abusing Paul Bonacci — convicted in civil court, acquitted in criminal court.

The best written source for information about the depths of corruption and cover-up involved in this scandal is Nick Bryant’s The Franklin Scandal: A Story of Powerbrokers, Child Abuse & Betrayal (if you can’t find a free copy on your own, contact me through my website, www.zombiemeditations.com and I tell you where to find it).

Could all of this turn out to be nothing?

Of course it could.

But that’s not the question here. The question is how we should respond to the possibility.

Do we take the possibility seriously? History clearly indicates that we should. Even if it did turn out to be nothing at all, I would still be more proud to belong to a community willing to take the possibility seriously and call for investigation than I would to belong to a community that dismissed the possibility far too hastily and luckily turned out to be right — even as it did this and turned out to be wrong in so many cases like Rotherham before.

The real horror here would be to live in a society that responded as Reddit has — by shutting down the whole conversation entirely, banning r/pizzagate even while keeping subreddits like r/pedofriends, “a place for (non-offending) pedophiles and allies to make friends with each other!” alive.

Over on his blog, Scott Adams asks us to keep in mind cases where confirmation bias did lead to false allegations of institutional pedophilia, to caution against excessive confidence. (He hastens to add: “I want to be totally clear here that I’m not saying Pizzagate is false. I see the mountain of evidence too. And collectively it feels totally persuasive to me. It might even be true. I’m not debating the underlying truth of it. That part I don’t know.”)

But which is worse? If all the evidence coming out of Pizzagate is entirely false, what have we lost by spending time on it? On the other hand, if even five percent of the allegations that have been made surrounding the topic are true, what have we lost by ignoring them? Which is worse: spending too much time pursuing and thoroughly vetting false leads, or looking the other way while any amount of child abuse goes on?

According to the FBI’s National Crime Information Center (NCIC) database, nearly 470,000 children disappear in the United States alone each year. This number is dubious for a number of reasons. It looks like some number of runaways end up in the NCIC count, and to make matters worse, repeat offenders can make it into the data multiple times. So that would suggest that the real number must be lower than this tally; but on the other hand, we also know that many missing children are never reported in the first place, so it’s possible that that could boost the number back up. The bottom line, however, seems to be that there is no reliable way to determine how many total children are actually missing in the U.S.

Either way, though, even if correcting for these errors took out 90% of the disappearances in the NCIC database, and there were no unreported disappearances to account for at all, I think even the resulting 50,000 per year would still be enough to call the problem systematic and justify suspicion that these disappearances could well involve organized efforts—given that we already know of so many pedophile rings in so many powerful institutions.

In 2013, Canada busted a ring involving more than 300 adults, who had teachers, doctors, and nurses heavily represented among them. A pedophile ring has just been identified in the highest levels of UK football (Americans know the sport as soccer). Norwegian police also just uncovered a ring of 50 organized pedophiles mostly working in the tech sector, once again including elected officials, teachers, and lawyers. The Vatican scandals can practically go without mention — institutional involvement in child sex exploitation is nearly an a priori given.

And the children that are being raped and murdered in the photos passed around by these child porn rings are coming from somewhere. And when figures like politicians, teachers, and lawyers are involved in the rings, it’s hardly inconceivable that they could be involved in disappearances.

Have we identified one here?

Only time will tell. But we deserve to be paid attention. We deserve to have the matter taken seriously. And we deserve a media bringing the most relevant facts to our attention after having actually done some due diligence on the matter, which we do not currently have. The mainstream media has lied to us long enough about things like Trump having only a 1% chance of winning the election that the public has increasingly woken up to this fact — which is why Pizzagate is getting so much more attention than the Franklin scandal did. If Pizzagate turns out to have even a single-digit fraction of truth behind it, it may not just bring down the Clinton machine and Democratic Party, it may sound the death knell for the mainstream media as well.

One of many related YouTube videos by “Reality Calls” and others, totaling many hundreds of thousands of views

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4OP–ZXOjc

 

(Reprinted from Counter-Currents Publishing by permission of author or representative)
 
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352 Comments to "Pizzagate"
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  1. Furthermore, Tony Podesta’s favorite artist is Biljana Djurdjevic, whose art heavily features images of children in BDSM-esque positions in large showers.

    Psychopathy in the Pedophile (From Psychopathy: Antisocial, Criminal, and Violent Behavior, P 304-320, 1998, Theodore Millon, Erik Simonsen, et al, eds.–See NCJ-179236)

    This paper argues that pedophilia may represent a special case or subcase of psychopathy and that the main aims of both the psychopath and the pedophile are to dominate, to use, and to subjugate another person in service of the grandiose self. [...] It notes that the major differences between psychopaths and pedophiles are that the object of the predation for the pedophile is a child and that the overt behavioral manifestation of the pathology is sexual.

    https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/publications/Abstract.aspx?id=179240

    • Replies: @FKA Max
    I just wanted to reemphasize Scott Adams' statement about the scandal:

    Over on his blog, Scott Adams asks us to keep in mind cases where confirmation bias did lead to false allegations of institutional pedophilia, to caution against excessive confidence.
     
    These types of investigations and scandals can easily lead to 'witch hunts' and 'panics' and need to be handled with the greatest care, prudence, and levelheadedness possible.

    ----------

    I wanted to add the following study/information, because as the study states 'These results provide further evidence of the importance of distinguishing between these groups of offenders.'

    This might just be an irrelevant distinction for most people appalled by this potential/alleged abuse of power and authority of 'our' elites; but I believe we might mostly be looking at and dealing with psychopathy and not necessarily 'just' pedophilia in this Pizzagate scandal.

    This has several different implications for how this scandal might be handled or be covered up, etc., because psychopaths are master liars, deflectors, charmers, etc., i.e. 'pillars of the community,' 'movers and shakers,' etc.

    There is another curious connection here; Professor Robert Hare - the father of psychopathy research - said this:


    Hare considers newspaper tycoon Robert Maxwell to have been a strong candidate as a corporate psychopath.[10]
     
    - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy_in_the_workplace#General

    Robert Maxwell is the father of Ghislaine Maxwell, who is close friends with Jeffery Epstein:


    In an American court case that was made public in January 2015, a woman identified as 'Jane Doe 3' said she was approached by Maxwell in 1999, and claimed that Maxwell procured under-age girls to have sex with Epstein. Maxwell has always denied any involvement in Epstein's crimes.[10] She said: “She [Ghislaine] said she’d hit hard times. Jeffrey offered her a job and then, I guess, because of her ability to procure girls, she became a vital asset to him.
     
    - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghislaine_Maxwell


    Psychopathy among pedophilic and nonpedophilic child molesters.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22571910

    Abstract
    OBJECTIVE:
    Among men who commit sexual offenses against children, at least 2 distinct groups can be identified on the basis of the age of the primary targets of their sexual interest; pedophiles and nonpedophiles.
    METHOD:
    In the present report, across 2 independent samples of both types of child molesters as well as controls, a total of 104 men (53 pedophilic and 51 nonpedophilic) who had sexually offended against a child age 13 or younger were compared to each other (and to 49 non-sex offender controls) on psychopathy as assessed by the Psychopathic Personality Inventory (PPI).
    RESULTS:
    In both samples of child molesters, the nonpedophiles scored as significantly more psychopathic than the pedophiles.
    CONCLUSIONS:
    These results provide further evidence of the importance of distinguishing between these groups of offenders.
     

    , @Neoconned
    So the gang in Rotherham was molesting a thousand girls in a town of 100k.

    I wonder what percentage of child bearing age females ythat is in that town?
    , @FKA Max
    Mr. Cassiel concludes his 3-part series of Pizzagate articles:

    Precedents for Pizzagate
    Aedon Cassiel Published: December 23, 2016

    http://www.counter-currents.com/2016/12/precedents-for-pizzagate/

    To reiterate a point that should be clear to the more astute reader, my goal in this series (part 1, part 2) has not been to defend “Pizzagate” as such. My goal has been to defend the people who want to investigate it against specific accusations levied against them by people who think Pizzagate has revealed no intriguing information at all—for a specific reason, which I will be honing in and focusing on much more directly in this closing entry.

    Whereas the mainstream critics of Pizzagate would have you believe that the world is divided between paranoid conspiracy theorist followers of “fake news” and level-headed people who follow trustworthy news sources and rely on cold, hard reason to determine the truth, my goal has been to show that—whatever is or is not happening with Pizzagate itself—this framing of the issue is arrogant, insulting, and the product of extremely narrow tunnel vision. [...]

    And if the media is telling you only about the most bizarre, reaching accusations without telling you any of the more interesting points that have been uncovered (which it is), it is not doing its proper job.”
     
    , @FKA Max
    Some potential victims of James Alefantis have been identified and one gave an anonymous testimony.


    What James Alefantis allegedly did here is not illegal, but speaks volumes about his character, in my opinion, if the story indeed is true:
    [...]
    It turns out that Carole’s son, who is +/-18 at this time, is also working at the restaurant. I think his name is Dylan/Dillon. He grew up without a father and turned to James Alefantis often for advice.
    One night Carole walked into the comet pizza kitchen, and saw James Alefantis fucking her son in the kitchen. She was furious because she immediately knew how completely James had taken advantage of her son. She quit immediately and denounced James viciously in private, unwilling to do so publicly for professional reasons.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/article/precedents-for-pizzagate/#comment-1732211

    The story checks out, so far: Carole Greenwood is a single mom and has a son named Dylan, who was 13 years old/young in 2003. [...] [–] daj 16 points (+16|-0) 11 hours ago (edited 10 hours ago)

    It’s legit: http://hollaforums.com/thread/8359034/politics/james-alefantis-fucks.html

    Archive: https://archive.fo/iDbWN
     
    - http://www.unz.com/article/precedents-for-pizzagate/#comment-1732521

    Disclaimer: I have absolutely no idea if this person is authentic, but since many Pizzagate critics argue that the scandal has not a leg to stand on, because no victims have come forward so far, I believe this testimony is important to share.
    [...]
    This is how he answered one of the questions on a voat comment thread. He seems to know/be aware of Dylan Greenwood
    [...]
    Here is one of the email exchanges between he and James Alefantis, that he did not delete: http://archive.is/8423t
    [...]
    After a little while when it was nearing the final exams, I was stressed out, exhausted and let my guard down and went out for some drinks with James a few times after work to get stuff off my chest. James would drug me up and then take advantage of me. When I threatened to go to the police he implied that he would harm me physically and said he would sue me. He had so many friends around DC that I believed him, I really was afraid, and just kept it all bottled up. I ended up getting PTSD, Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, from what were effectively rapes, and later I began to realize that I likely had Stockholm Syndrome. I eventually quit the job, but James would send me lewd photos and texts for another 2 or three years at the rate of once about every 2 to 3 months, I think 6 months was the longest in that period. I had to kick him out of the place I worked when he came in every other month or so for about a year. Let this be a lesson: do not trust sociopaths and pathological liars.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/article/precedents-for-pizzagate/#comment-1733621
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  2. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    Political correctness was definitely one of the, if not the, primary reasons for the Rotherham scandal coverup. But another major factor was the entrenched culture of pedophilia in British society and culture. Every aspect of British society seems to have ties to pedophilia, from Parliament, to the elites, the City of London, the government, public schools, Oxbridge, the universities, all the way down to Paki immigrant communities and even British soccer. The most recent revelation is that British soccer has been infested with pedophilia for decades, and it’s been covered up for decades. This culture of pedophilia and covering up for it in British society and culture helped facilitate Rotherham and the coverup:

    “Pedophilia Scandal Sends Shock Waves Through U.K. Soccer”

    http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/12/02/504164498/pedophilia-scandal-sends-shock-waves-through-u-k-soccer

    In mid-November, a former professional soccer player told a British newspaper that as a child, he had been sexually abused for years by a well-respected youth coach. The player said he knew other players had experienced the same thing — and that a culture of silence kept the abusers out of the spotlight.

    But he wasn’t keeping the secret anymore.

    “I want to get it out and give other people an opportunity to do the same,” Andy Woodward told The Guardian. “I want to give people strength. … I’m convinced there is an awful lot more to come out.”

    His interview unleashed a flood.

    In the weeks since, a half-dozen other former players have come forward in the media, alleging years of abuse by multiple coaches and scouts in the U.K. More than 20 former pros have alleged abuse to the Professional Footballers’ Association. Some 350 people have reported abuse at youth soccer clubs to police, according to The Associated Press.

    • Replies: @Anon
    "Every aspect of British society seems to have ties to pedophilia, from Parliament, to the elites, the City of London, the government, public schools, Oxbridge, the universities, all the way down to Paki immigrant communities and even British soccer."

    Why do pedos gain such power? Same reason why homos do? Since many of them don't have families and since they resent the Normal World(from which they must hide their deviance or sickness), do they have extra time/energy for gaining power? Are they fueled by resentment toward Normal Society? It seems like homos had a kind of revenge streak, and it all came out with New Normal. Homos really want to rub our faces in their feces. They want to force us to accept the New Normal or be totally destroyed. They want to turn us into their bitches. They are into Bitch-Hunting.

    Working in the shadows, homos and pedos seemed to gained considerable power. And since they are associated with Vice Industry, they have the dirt on everyone else and can blackmail them. Bill Clinton prolly never had sex with a minor, but surely homos and pedos have a lot of dirt on him about his many affairs and orgies. And since they have many connections, they serve as essential middlemen for those who seek power.

    Also, there is a code of silence among the powerful. They watch out for one another. And homos and pedos are both pushy and gushy. They are very demanding but also accommodating and supportive of the powerful and ambitious. They go all out to serve the powerful and those on the up-and-up, but they also demand a cut of the pie.

    The ambitious care most about power and privilege than about right and wrong. If their power depends on a coterie of people committed to them 24/7, they will look the other way even when they know something is up. Also, there is the human factor. People who work together closely develop an emotional bond. It's team politics, us vs them. And loyalty must be favored.
    Since homos and pedos have more time on their hands and more energy(fueled by resentment), they might be more available to the powerful or those who seek power.

    Hollywood made the media the hero in the movie SPOTLIGHT. But the media seem eager to bury this as fast as possible.

    Why did it take so long for the Hastert and Sandusky cases to come to light?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Sandusky

    How did they get away with that stuff forever?

    Is it a good idea to allow homos into Boy Scouts?

    Homos seem to be closely allied with pedos, and the trajectory of our culture is to normalize pedophilia by sexualizing young girls and boys. If young ones are sexualized, it means they can be objects of sexual desire. And then what?

    And the scientific community is arguing pedophilia should be treated as a condition than a crime. This may be legit as long as pedos didn't act on their impulses. But if they did, how can it not be a crime?
    Rape is 'natural' too given that sexual feelings are natural. But we can't treat rape itself as a condition and not a crime.
    , @Skeptikal
    How the "fake news" trope works in the real world:
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/07/trump-adviser-son-michael-flynn-sacked-pizzagate-comet-ping-pong-restaurant

    Flynn's tweet regarding this story was perfectly reasonable.
    The story has been stamped "bogus" without any kind of investigation.
    No response to questions about the weird content of emails by Podesta and others.
    Stonewalling.
    Makes one think the shotgun blast at Comet might even have been a false flag!!
    , @BB753
    I remember watching an excellent Australian film years ago that covered this very topic. It portrayed in a very realistic way the whole homo/ pedo underground in the upper rungs of society, from posh public schools to university, where grooming of youngsters occurred, to Parliament and Finance, where the powerful pederasts/homosexuals ruled. In this world, the shortest way to power and riches for a young man was to seek out the protection and guidance of an older and powerful homo/pederast lover. It was shot in Australia and in Australian settings and institutions, but it's all so British you'd think the film makers really intended the story to reflect British society and were using Australia as a legal cover.
    Sorry, I can't remember the title of the movie or the director. It was quite disturbing to watch but very interesting.
    Perhaps Pat Hannagan or some other knowledgeable Australian reader can help.
  3. If Pizzagate turns out to have even a single-digit fraction of truth behind it, it may not just bring down the Clinton machine and Democratic Party, it may sound the death knell for the mainstream media as well.

    Your sad partisan shillery ruined what could have been a good article; you are are aware that Trump is associated with Epstein as well, right?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Trump is connected to pedophilia circumstancially as much as these Pizzagate characters are. But because of partisanship, he's not going to get the same sort of attention about it from the right.
    , @fish
    All the more reason to continue investigating ....eh....Troof?!
    , @Forty
    In that case you should be in favor of investigating "Pizzagate" since the left is having conniption fits over the God-Emperor's ascension.
    , @Turkyshoes
    Except when asked about the jackel epstein, trump said "he is an evil, evil man."
  4. 50,000 – No way.

    “Weiner’s sexting of young children” – what do you mean by young children? 13, 14 years old is young?

    • Replies: @josh
    Yes, obviously.
    , @RadicalCenter
    If it's my children to whom some perverted, undeveloped "man" is "sexting", the answer is simply "too young" and "young enough for the guy to die."

    How would you react if someone sent sexual photos or propositions to your 13-year-old child? Specifically how, and why.
    , @Mom
    You are sick. You obviously have no children of your own.
    , @dahoit
    If you were a 13 year old boy(or girl)no,they wouldn't be young.
    To an adult,they are children.
    , @I H
    Yes. It is young.
  5. This is by far the best survey of this topic that I’ve read.

    What is clear is that the contention that there is “no evidence”, a contention that is asserted or implied in seemingly every mainstream media discussion, is flatly false. There is a vast array of pertinent evidence, much of it circumstantial, but much of it also suggesting something of the mindset of some of the central figures. Anyone who denies this is utterly oblivious, or a liar, or a fool.

    As to what the evidence establishes, that is a different question. If skilled and intelligent investigators fail to take it up, then motivated and fervent – if not entirely competent – inquirers will surely rise up in their stead.

    • Replies: @Jus' Sayin'...
    Watch for the "fake news" sources' standard method for dealing with a large set of serious allegations like these from the internet's "real news" sources. They will take the most absurd/least likely allegations and dispose of them. They will then unobtrusively fail to address harder to dismiss allegations. Instead they will argue to the effect that, some of these allegations are false so obviously all must be.

    The "truther" site Snopes once had a perfect example, since taken down, I suspect because it made the technique so obvious. One popular right-wing internet site claimed to link 100 or so suspicious deaths to the Clintons. Snopes attacked the obviously absurd linkages and was left with about twenty cases of persons who (1) were involved or rumored to be involved with nefarious activities involving the Clintons; (2) were scheduled to testify against the Clintons or rumored to be brokering plea deals; and (3) died under suspicious circumstances soon after. Snopes dismissed these with a comment to the effect that all public figures had numbers of known associates die like this; let's just move on, folks; nothing to see here.
    , @Arnieus
    Pizza gate would go away in an hour if the Pedesta brothers would present a believable innocent explanation for their obvious coded email messages. Hey Tony, what are you talking about and don't say its food. Nobody talks about pizza dozens of times in email.
    , @Corvinus
    "There is a vast array of pertinent evidence, much of it circumstantial, but much of it also suggesting something of the mindset of some of the central figures."

    Pertinent evidence conjured up by the Coalition of the Right Fringe groups. Circumstantial, indeed. Thanks, Fake News Fanatic.

    "While many of these claims are wild speculation over coincidences (though by no means all of them are), at some point I think a bunch of weird coincidences involving pedophilia and kids becomes sort of damning in and of itself."

    A classic Fake News Story by the Coalition of the Fringes Right. Scores of wild speculation + weird coincidences = truth.

    Thanks!
  6. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    Great article, especially the Rotterdam lead in.

    One thing that is hard not to notice, if you look at who is involved here, is that almost all of the creeps involved are Jewish.

    It is an almost complete match to the Rotterdam case in the sense that a minority group preys on the mist vulnerable people of the host population and then uses discrimination as cover to get away with it.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    If you can confuse Rotherham and Rotterdam perhaps you think the Podesta brothers, Jimmy Savile, Cyril Smith, Jeremy Thorpe, Rolf Harris, Mark Thompson and all those Rotherham Pakistanis ate Jewish.....
  7. Strangely enough, someone with exactly the same name as the individual with a gun arrested at Comet Ping Pong, Edgar Maddison Welch (extra “d” and all), has a listing on IMDB. He’s an actor:

    https://archive.is/VgKcj

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    He is the same man.

    Interesting, huh? As I vaguely recall, this isn't the first time a small-time actor has been a character in an event like this.

    There are many thousands of people across America who are trying to make acting a career. They will jump at any chance to get paid to play a role.

    Many of those people are flaky. I subscribe to the saying, "Actors are just carnys with good teeth." This could be interpreted either way with regard to roles such people might play in weird events: Either the actor was hired, or the actor was just freaky enough to do it on his own.
    , @Wm Jas
    Not only is he an actor, he played "the gunman" in a 2005 short called "Something About Pizza." Seriously.
    , @moviebuff
    Do bear in mind that IMDb is user-generated information. Anyone can plant a false entry. Just sayin'...
  8. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    It’s such a juicy story. You’d think the media would be all over it? Instead it’s become their flagship cautionary tale about the evils of ‘Fake News’

    It was really amazing to me that Bill Clinton and Prince Andrew were involved with this Epstein Island thing, yet nobody seemed to report on it at all. Again, it’s a juicy story…who wouldn’t want to get to the bottom this?

    The fact is the media is fused with the political class today. It’s heavily saturated with Jews and and Homosexuals and there tends to be a sort of a ‘secret handshake’ aspect to both of these groups. I’m not sure the media today is interested in examining the political class too closely, particularly the Democrats. It’s like a big family who are all looking out for each other.

    I notice this again with Hollywood and the allegations against Bryan Singer. Crickets. Nobody was interested in covering this stuff. It would be seen as déclassé to get overly worked up about it. After all thats what a prudish Christian would do…

    • Replies: @Some Economist

    It’s such a juicy story. You’d think the media would be all over it? Instead it’s become their flagship cautionary tale about the evils of ‘Fake News’
     
    I was surprised, after having listened to last week's 2Kevings/Grace and Steel podcast and searching "pizzagate", to find a number of hits from WaPo, NYT, NewYorker, etc. As you say, the angle was different from what a curious person would hope to find.

    Of course their real concern was with the harmful effects of "fake news" on this honest small business, almost matching the concern they had for another mom-and-pop pizza joint in Indiana that declined to cater a hypothetical gay wedding reception a few years back.

    In any case, that the media would pay so much non-attention to this case is suspicious.

  9. In one email, Podesta is among those being invited to a farm and the host says, “Bonnie will be Uber Service to transport Ruby, Emerson, and Maeve Luzzatto (11, 9, and almost 7) so you’ll have some further entertainment, and they will be in [the] pool for sure.”

    Could that have an innocent explanation? Sure, maybe. But inviting a group of adult men to a gathering and calling young children “further entertainment” while listing their ages is weird , whether it ends up having an explanation or not.

    But that comes Tamera Luzzatto and appear to involve her grandchildren: http://archive.is/JGhR6

    And the group includes several adult women including Podesta’s wife.

    If this is exhibit #1, I think the prosecution case just got off to a bad start.

    • Replies: @Aedon Cassiel
    Yes, I wanted to showcase that there is a wide range in how strongly suggestive the different bits of claimed evidence are. However, the fact that adult women and wives are involved establishes little, because it is a well known phenomena that in most of these high–profile cases, the wives are aware and either say nothing, or else actively cover for their pedophile husbands.

    In any case, I think the weaker bits of evidence in this case become stronger in the light of other stronger pieces of evidence. As I wrote in the comment section over at Counter–Currents,

    “…if you search “Podesta Madeline McCann”, there are a number of coincidences suggesting the possibility the brothers could have had a role in her disappearance. The key point is that Clement Freud, the convicted pedophile who I mentioned in the essay the brothers remained close friends with, has a mansion less than half a mile away from where the young girl disappeared in Portugal. We know that the Podesta brothers traveled there on occassion, there’s reason to think they may have been there during the month she disappeared, and the police sketches look disturbingly identical to both John and Tony Podesta—see here for a side by side comparison. See also: “Emails between ‘paedophile’ Clement Freud and Madeleine McCann’s parents to be probed for child sex abuse inquiry.”

    … Now, when you add things like a bedroom lined with photos of “documentary-style pictures of naked teenagers” to something like the emails listing childrens’ ages and calling getting in a pool with them “further entertainment,” it starts feeling less innocent. I could picture a scenario in which I list my childrens’ ages and innocently refer to them as “further entertainment” for guests. But if I knew those guests were people who keep photos of naked children in their bedroom and were close friends with high–profile pedophiles and traveled around to visit them, I might be just a little bit more on guard about the language I was using and whether I was actively inviting my children to jump in pools with them.”
    , @The Millennial Falcon
    It's hard to believe but there are extremely disturbing examples of mothers encouraging and even participating in the sexual abuse of their children. To cite one high-profile example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marion_Zimmer_Bradley#Child_sex_abuse_allegations

    It's best not to underestimate human capacity for evil. I heartily echo the author's urging to take this seriously.
  10. I guess the only thing worse than this pedophile ring being true would be if this was some kind of limited hang out to make Americans lose all faith in their leadership and culture.

    Be aware that the Central Banksters want world government and for it to emerge the complete destruction of national governments is needed.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    What and who do you mean by Central Banksters?
    , @Anon
    Yeah, even if nothing happened, the whole culture around those clubs and pizzerias is trashy, vapid, and disgusting.

    So, the Best and Brightest indulge in debased Warholisms, Mapplethorpeisms, and Teletubbisms.

    No wonder we end up with 'gay marriage' and 'rainbow'-lit white house.

    I mean WTF.
  11. I’ve been perusing it for a couple of days and so far I’m not on board. I’d love for some damage to happen on the Clinton Foundation/Weiner front but this seems not to be it (maybe Haitian doings will fill that in). The Tamera Luzzatto email, when read in full, does not seem necessarily sinister; if you think listing the ages is too salient to be a non sequitur, you’ve never met an addle-brained yuppie woman who freely babbles bits of trivia about little children, especially when she’s a relative and not their mother. I could even parse “further entertainment” as a sarcastic half-joke. (See “dining al fresco instead of al-CHILLio”–this is what suburban SWPL women think is called Humor.)

    The art collection is bad but remember, these are decadent rich liberals, well compensated for tax-farming us. They love to splurge on “subversive objects.” It’s a big leap from there to actual organized sex trafficking.

  12. Speaking of “artists,” I always thought the sicko, Salvador Dali was particularly deranged…!

    I guess he was just the tiniest tip of the iceberg.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

    Speaking of “artists,” I always thought the sicko, Salvador Dali was particularly deranged…!
     
    He wasn't deranged, just crassly commercial and lowbrow. He played up his gimmick of surrealist craziness to great profit.

    I remember a pre-Starbucks coffee shop I frequented in my old, bohemian college town. They had a signed, numbered Dali print hanging behind the toilet in the pisser. It was an interesting picture, a silkscreen print, as I recall. The signature was real.

    This was their hipster way of insulting Dali. Customers could relieve themselves while staring at one of Salvatore's many thousands of products. He sold them to thousands of rubes who otherwise wouldn't buy art.

    Art is always the province of the rich and privileged. It is a commercial enterprise. Even the "great" artists you might have learned about got their reputation by becoming popular with the elite. Today's art is best ignored.

    , @Che Guava
    Why, Jacques?

    I met someone overseas who was in Dali's entourage late in Dali's life, he was sleazy, but a gent, fine to accept 'no' for an answer and continue the conversation and drinks.

    Dali was a genius with paint, who but Magritte or Miro among the Surrealists can compare as a painter?

    Talented self-promoter and many great side-projects, too.

    So why single him out for denigration?
  13. A good and necessary article. I read plenty of US news but this is the first that I’ve heard of Pizzagate.

    • Agree: jacques sheete
    • Replies: @Anon
    Maybe it should be called Pizzaham... like Rotherham.
  14. That is an interesting article. I read Mr. Addam’s blog post, assumed the thing was a sham. Not so much now.

    One point of interest.

    The illustrations by Biljana Djurdjevic (never heard of him before) are clearly a copy of the style of Trevor Brown, an Englishman working in Japan, and quite popular for his picture books.

    However, while it is possible to appreciate Brown’s work as perverse material based on kewpie dolls, a transgressive laugh, the two examples of Djurdjevic’s work posted with the article have a different and rather ugly flavour.

  15. @Henry's Cat

    In one email, Podesta is among those being invited to a farm and the host says, “Bonnie will be Uber Service to transport Ruby, Emerson, and Maeve Luzzatto (11, 9, and almost 7) so you’ll have some further entertainment, and they will be in [the] pool for sure.”

    Could that have an innocent explanation? Sure, maybe. But inviting a group of adult men to a gathering and calling young children “further entertainment” while listing their ages is weird , whether it ends up having an explanation or not.
     

    But that comes Tamera Luzzatto and appear to involve her grandchildren: http://archive.is/JGhR6

    And the group includes several adult women including Podesta's wife.

    If this is exhibit #1, I think the prosecution case just got off to a bad start.

    Yes, I wanted to showcase that there is a wide range in how strongly suggestive the different bits of claimed evidence are. However, the fact that adult women and wives are involved establishes little, because it is a well known phenomena that in most of these high–profile cases, the wives are aware and either say nothing, or else actively cover for their pedophile husbands.

    In any case, I think the weaker bits of evidence in this case become stronger in the light of other stronger pieces of evidence. As I wrote in the comment section over at Counter–Currents,

    “…if you search “Podesta Madeline McCann”, there are a number of coincidences suggesting the possibility the brothers could have had a role in her disappearance. The key point is that Clement Freud, the convicted pedophile who I mentioned in the essay the brothers remained close friends with, has a mansion less than half a mile away from where the young girl disappeared in Portugal. We know that the Podesta brothers traveled there on occassion, there’s reason to think they may have been there during the month she disappeared, and the police sketches look disturbingly identical to both John and Tony Podesta—see here for a side by side comparison. See also: “Emails between ‘paedophile’ Clement Freud and Madeleine McCann’s parents to be probed for child sex abuse inquiry.”

    … Now, when you add things like a bedroom lined with photos of “documentary-style pictures of naked teenagers” to something like the emails listing childrens’ ages and calling getting in a pool with them “further entertainment,” it starts feeling less innocent. I could picture a scenario in which I list my childrens’ ages and innocently refer to them as “further entertainment” for guests. But if I knew those guests were people who keep photos of naked children in their bedroom and were close friends with high–profile pedophiles and traveled around to visit them, I might be just a little bit more on guard about the language I was using and whether I was actively inviting my children to jump in pools with them.”

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Can you elaborate on the provenance and history of those curiously coloured "police sketches" that are alarmingly close to the photos of the brothers?
    , @Learning
    Aedon: I agree that the Podestas and Comet Ping Pong are creep. However, regarding the missing child in Portugal, those sketches were different views of the same guy. An number of people with children were seen that night. A problem was that the Portguese authorities initially suspected the parents. There are conspiracy blogs about her parents on Facebook. The fact that Freud had a house there is another really creep fact though.
    , @Wizard of Oz
    You may find you agree with #133
  16. This ‘story’ is complete horseshit / random confirmation bias. Scan the full social media accounts of any group of 100+ people and you could find just as much ‘evidence’ if you were determined to do so. This is scary — the day that any social media post involving children that uses the word “chicken” anywhere in it counts as evidence of pedophilia is the day anyone could be smeared.

    Ron Unz should be ashamed of himself for giving this kind of unhinged paranoid fear-mongering space.

    • Agree: RodW
    • Replies: @Eustace Tilley (not)
    Thank you, "MQ" (no doubt a Top Secret Agent in Her Majesty's Intelligence Services) for your deep insights.

    It's nice to know that the taxpayers are getting their money's worth paying clever trolls such as you to squirt purple ink into the faces of the vigilant citizens who are trying to penetrate the curtain of deceit which has been so elaborately woven for them ever since 1914.

    I don't think you will be able to cover this one up, though, the way you semi-succeeded with Pearl Harbor and the JFK assassination. The Mainstream Media are losing their grip on the Narrative. You can see this by the increasingly desperate tone of Carlos Slim's Blog.
    , @Alfred1860
    Do some of your own research on this topic and you will come to a different conclusion if you can get beyond your massive bias. The Burning Platform has featured a series of posts over the last few weeks that provide a volume of evidence that is impossible to discount.

    Most people cannot accept something like this would be real because they cannot fathom the depths of evil that exist in this world.....why, I don't know. You'd think the fact that many of the people implicated have also been the ones fully on board with unprovoked wars that have killed, maimed and displaced millions of people, including children, would be evidence enough.

    Kudos to Ron Unz for exposing more people to this tragic, disgusting, horrendous story.
    , @Jus' Sayin'...
    In one of my many different careers I worked for a couple of years as an outside consultant to the FBI's ViCAP (now VICAP) program. About the time I was thus delving the depths of human depravity -- and they are far deeper than the more fortunate readers of this are ever likely to learn -- a scandal similar to this broke in Belgium, involving the highest levels of society, politics, and the EU bureaucracy in criminal conspiracies to kidnap children, sexually violate them, torture them, and even use them in the production of snuff films. A full investigation dead-ended after many suicides and suspicious deaths and disappearances. IMHO, based on some experience with criminal conspiracies of this type, the mass of material presented here is a pretty overwhelming indication that something very bad is happening. That the MSM ("fake new") sources are not paying more attentionto this is scandalous.
    , @No_0ne
    Nothing to see here. Just shut it down. It's for your own good. These people at trusted legacy media outlets have your best interests at heart, after all. They know best.
    , @Greg Bacon
    Lot of smoke here, must be a fire burning somewhere, like on Comet Ping Pong's Instagram page which has pics of pedophilia.

    https://www.instagram.com/explore/locations/85083/comet-ping-pong/

    But someone as astute as MQ might just call that depravity 'art.'
    , @Olorin
    Your comment sounds familiar to me. Are you writing from the UK perchance?

    Back in the mid-Aughts I was surprised by how often I saw commenters at MSM news sites talking about the grooming and abduction of white girls in cities in England. At the time I was regularly reading BBC, Guardian, Telegraph, and Times. The stories where these comments appeared were diverse in topic.

    Sometimes other comments would share similar experiences. Some would say they talked to someone who claimed similar experience. Others would say they'd heard murmurs of such things.

    These voices repeatedly called on the MSM outlet to investigate, or they wondered why no response was forthcoming from elected officials or policymakers.

    This was after--I later learned--Ann Cryer (MP for Keighley) had bravely stepped forward on behalf of girls whose parents had approached her for help. IOW, the cat was emerging from the bag, but the MSM were trying to stuff it back in.

    Dismissive responses to these comments frequently were framed as yours is here: nothing to see here, move along, it's confirmation bias, you people are nuts, mods, step in and censor them!

    In the Rotherham/etc. case, racism, Islamophobia, etc., were trotted out to inflict silence.

    What was most noteworthy to me, and creepy, was how these comments would be removed from the comment streams of these outlets.

    Sometimes the comments would be deleted but the response calling them racists or Islamophobes allowed to stand.

    By the late Aughts I was convinced some sort of coverup was underway of something terrible indeed.

    We now know that the MSM were key players in that.

    Similar murmurings were afoot in Pennsylvania for many years prior to the revelations of the sexual abuse of children by Penn State coach Sandusky. I knew men who steered their sons away from football in general, guiding them instead to hockey or lacrosse, because the word on the street was that football camp was not a safe place for boys anymore. (Nor, increasingly, Boy Scouts or church camps.)

    The gig is up for the MSM acting as panderers and pimps in the Cathedragogue of their own degenerate Narrative-religion.

    They won't go down without a fight. They have more power and money to lose than any of the kids victimized by pedocidal perverts.

    But what those kids have to lose is a treasure of vastly more importance than power and money.

    Thing is, truth and goodness of spirit will win. This is part of why these degenerates fight back as they do. They can put truth and goodness on the run for only so long. They fight back not because they are losing, but because, by nature, they can never join the winning side of truth and goodness. It's just not in them.

    All the more reason they need to be found out and reined in hard.

    One last thing, regarding some people's assertion that these symbols, in-jokes, etc., are all "just a game." Or, worse, "art." (Which implies getting money and power by representing degeneracy to decorate rich people's businesses, homes...and bedrooms.)

    If pedophilia, grooming, and child rape are now matters to take lightly as shibboleths of entrance to circles of power, then those circles of power need to be napalmed.

    "In the beginning there were the swamp, the hoe, and Jussi."

    , @Kurt van Ghoye
    I believe that this story merits investigation and dialectic, not the type of ad hominem rhetoric you are sputtering. Perhaps you should consider where your own sympathies lie, and why.
  17. @Anonymous
    Great article, especially the Rotterdam lead in.

    One thing that is hard not to notice, if you look at who is involved here, is that almost all of the creeps involved are Jewish.

    It is an almost complete match to the Rotterdam case in the sense that a minority group preys on the mist vulnerable people of the host population and then uses discrimination as cover to get away with it.

    If you can confuse Rotherham and Rotterdam perhaps you think the Podesta brothers, Jimmy Savile, Cyril Smith, Jeremy Thorpe, Rolf Harris, Mark Thompson and all those Rotherham Pakistanis ate Jewish…..

    • Replies: @No_0ne
    He probably believes that Greville Janner is jewish, too. These conspiracy theorists...
    , @jtgw
    No, they're just two Northern European cities with large, unassimilated Muslim populations and similar Germanic names.
  18. @jacques sheete
    Speaking of "artists," I always thought the sicko, Salvador Dali was particularly deranged...!

    I guess he was just the tiniest tip of the iceberg.

    Speaking of “artists,” I always thought the sicko, Salvador Dali was particularly deranged…!

    He wasn’t deranged, just crassly commercial and lowbrow. He played up his gimmick of surrealist craziness to great profit.

    I remember a pre-Starbucks coffee shop I frequented in my old, bohemian college town. They had a signed, numbered Dali print hanging behind the toilet in the pisser. It was an interesting picture, a silkscreen print, as I recall. The signature was real.

    This was their hipster way of insulting Dali. Customers could relieve themselves while staring at one of Salvatore’s many thousands of products. He sold them to thousands of rubes who otherwise wouldn’t buy art.

    Art is always the province of the rich and privileged. It is a commercial enterprise. Even the “great” artists you might have learned about got their reputation by becoming popular with the elite. Today’s art is best ignored.

    • Replies: @woodNfish
    Before his death Dali signed thousands of blank artist media so that is could be printed after his death and sold as a "signed original" or a "signed and numbered print". Dali convinced Picasso to do the same thing, but Picasso did not sign as large a number of blank media as Dali. When this was discovered after Dali's death it was considered one of the biggest art fraud scandals of the century and part of its lasting effects is that Dali prints carry very little value even with a real signature.
    , @Jus' Sayin'...
    Dali was a self-promoter, a con artist, and probably a sociopath. OTOH, he was from a purely technical standpoint one of the greatest, if not the greatest, painter of the twentieth century, When he chose to, Dali produced the finest surreal paintings. One should not dismiss Cellini's sculptures because he was a homicidal egomaniac nor Gesualdo's motets because he murdered his wife.
    , @jacques sheete

    Today’s art is best ignored.
     
    Agreed. In fact, most of what's promoted as "intellectual" or "cool" or "hip" is outright useless if not dangerous garbage. And the producers of it are no doubt laughing with both glee and contempt all the way to the bank.

    Maybe Dali wasn't deranged, but he was enough of a sick, violent pervert to make it hard to tell. I'm basing my opinion on Orwell's assessment of the goof, so it's possible he's wrong.

    Here are some quotes from Orwell's essay about the sewagemeister.

    Suddenly one of my father’s office clerks appeared in the drawing-room doorway and announced that the comet could be seen from the terrace… While crossing the hall I caught sight of my little three-year-old sister crawling unobtrusively through a doorway. I stopped, hesitated a second, then gave her a terrible kick in the head as though it had been a ball, and continued running, carried away with a ‘delirious joy’ induced by this savage act. But my father, who was behind me, caught me and led me down in to his office, where I remained as a punishment till dinner-time.

    A year earlier than this Dali had ‘suddenly, as most of my ideas occur,’ flung another little boy off a suspension bridge. Several other incidents of the same kind are recorded, including (this was when he was twenty-nine years old) knocking down and trampling on a girl ‘until they had to tear her, bleeding, out of my reach.’

    When he first meets his future wife, Gala, he is greatly tempted to push her off a precipice. He is aware that there is something that she wants him to do to her, and after their first kiss the confession is made:

    -George Orwell, Benefit Of Clergy: Some Notes On Salvador Dali, 1944
    http://www.telelib.com/authors/O/OrwellGeorge/essay/CriticalEssays/salvadordali.html
     
  19. @sebastian puettmann
    I guess the only thing worse than this pedophile ring being true would be if this was some kind of limited hang out to make Americans lose all faith in their leadership and culture.

    Be aware that the Central Banksters want world government and for it to emerge the complete destruction of national governments is needed.

    What and who do you mean by Central Banksters?

    • Replies: @No_0ne
    You're not aware of the existence of the Fed, and similar institutions in other countries? That's odd.
    , @coyote
    lolz. "central banksters"... whooooo could they possibly beeeee.....? follow the $hekel$..... little men behind the curtains.... those great and powerful ozzzzies- such a clever little wizard you are.
  20. Rotate the old logo for Besta Pizza 180 degrees. It is the pedophile BLogo symbol.

    That’s why when it got publicised, Besta’s management immediately deleted the old one and converted to a new, BLogo-free symbol on all their website and printed materials.

    What is interesting to note in mainstream media “debunkings” of PizzaGate is that they focus on the doubtful evidence, things that could be “interpreted either way” and they leave out the glaringly obvious pedophilia links, like the Besta Pizza logo.

    Just look at all the “debunking articles.” Do any of them mention the old Besta logo? I haven’t seen any.

    It seems to me this is the way to wean the public off the mainstream media. Hammer on the fact that the MSM insists on leaving out the clear, obvious evidence and tries to imply that everything is doubtful and open to interpretation. Then people will start to associate them with coverup and BS. The MSM can’t recover from that.

    • Replies: @Anon
    I'm not dismissing anything here, but as for

    That’s why when it got publicised, Besta’s management immediately deleted the old one and converted to a new, BLogo-free symbol on all their website and printed materials.
     
    if you found out your business logo (a triangular Greek key pattern) was used as a signaling device by pedophiles, wouldn't you change it? I, like, probably, most readers, had certainly never heard of this symbol until today.

    By the way, Besta Pizza is the worst pizzeria name I've heard in a long time. The owners evidently have horrible taste or are more than a little clueless.

    Just playing advocatus diaboli, here.
    , @Linh Dinh
    Valuable article.

    In the picture of a man holding a small child, the bead necklace alludes to semen, and Besta is also one vowel short of Bestia, "Beast."
    , @Astuteobservor II
    this is why unz is so good. there is good chance to learn something new.
    , @James Kabala
    Actually the logo issue is a prominent part of this Washington Post article (and a tweet by the fairly well-known Dave Weigel highlighted that part in particular):

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/were-going-to-put-a-bullet-in-your-head-pizzagate-threats-terrorize-dc-shop-owners/2016/12/05/39469a82-bb2e-11e6-94ac-3d324840106c_story.html?utm_term=.af2e34c09164

  21. @Aedon Cassiel
    Yes, I wanted to showcase that there is a wide range in how strongly suggestive the different bits of claimed evidence are. However, the fact that adult women and wives are involved establishes little, because it is a well known phenomena that in most of these high–profile cases, the wives are aware and either say nothing, or else actively cover for their pedophile husbands.

    In any case, I think the weaker bits of evidence in this case become stronger in the light of other stronger pieces of evidence. As I wrote in the comment section over at Counter–Currents,

    “…if you search “Podesta Madeline McCann”, there are a number of coincidences suggesting the possibility the brothers could have had a role in her disappearance. The key point is that Clement Freud, the convicted pedophile who I mentioned in the essay the brothers remained close friends with, has a mansion less than half a mile away from where the young girl disappeared in Portugal. We know that the Podesta brothers traveled there on occassion, there’s reason to think they may have been there during the month she disappeared, and the police sketches look disturbingly identical to both John and Tony Podesta—see here for a side by side comparison. See also: “Emails between ‘paedophile’ Clement Freud and Madeleine McCann’s parents to be probed for child sex abuse inquiry.”

    … Now, when you add things like a bedroom lined with photos of “documentary-style pictures of naked teenagers” to something like the emails listing childrens’ ages and calling getting in a pool with them “further entertainment,” it starts feeling less innocent. I could picture a scenario in which I list my childrens’ ages and innocently refer to them as “further entertainment” for guests. But if I knew those guests were people who keep photos of naked children in their bedroom and were close friends with high–profile pedophiles and traveled around to visit them, I might be just a little bit more on guard about the language I was using and whether I was actively inviting my children to jump in pools with them.”

    Can you elaborate on the provenance and history of those curiously coloured “police sketches” that are alarmingly close to the photos of the brothers?

    • Replies: @for-the-record
    See, for example,

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-24513267

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/10377714/Madeleine-McCann-E-fit-suspect-was-carrying-child-police-reveal.html

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Efit_images_of_Madeleine_McCann_suspect.jpg
  22. @jacques sheete
    Speaking of "artists," I always thought the sicko, Salvador Dali was particularly deranged...!

    I guess he was just the tiniest tip of the iceberg.

    Why, Jacques?

    I met someone overseas who was in Dali’s entourage late in Dali’s life, he was sleazy, but a gent, fine to accept ‘no’ for an answer and continue the conversation and drinks.

    Dali was a genius with paint, who but Magritte or Miro among the Surrealists can compare as a painter?

    Talented self-promoter and many great side-projects, too.

    So why single him out for denigration?

    • Replies: @jacques sheete

    So why single him out for denigration?
     
    I used him as an example of graphic example of GIGO since the "artwork" in the article is the product of obviously sick minds, and he obviously was a sicko, I thought it all tied in.

    I do think it's telling that so many commenters here have risen to his defense. It hints that people aren't confident enough of their own judgement to buck the tide and criticize sewage when they see it. No wonder the Hillary Clintons, the George Bushs, John McCains, and Kissingers of the world so often hold sway over it. They are not only not held accountable, but good folks even make excuses and vote for such pathetic heaps of compost.

    Furthermore, Dali was an artist in about the same sense that O-bomb-a is a peacemaker, Marx and Freud were scientists and Netanyahu is a stateman. Those who judge Dali on his "perception and technical merits" as contributing somehow to the betterment of society probably also have been gulled into believing the Peace Prize is anything but a mockery against reason and decency.

    And even furthermore, I'd like to point out that people can be and have been duped into all supporting all sorts of slush and rot, and it'd probably be to our personal and society's benefit to be on guard against getting sucked in. Hence Juvenal, "Difficile est saturam non scribere." (Yeah, I know I'm railing at the storm tossed seas.)

    Anyway, those who believe that Dali produced anything of artistic merit probably would all stand agog at the works of the "critically acclaimed" Disumbrationist, Paul Jordan-Smith. Yeah, and the Shrub was a Hawvawd and Yale schooled compassionate conservative, and the creeps in the article are all good guys.

    Where do you people get your faith?

  23. “the Podesta brothers are also friends with convicted sex offender Clement Freud ”

    I’ve seen no evidence of this whatsoever. All I’ve seen are shady websites claiming anonymous FBI sources.

    You underplayed the symbols. That’s one of the strongest pieces of evidence. Assuming the FBI page is real, there are three major pedo symbols: the nested triangles, the nested hearts, and the cloverleaf. EACH ONE is represented at a different business on that same block. Comet has the paddles that match the cloverleaf. If that’s too subtle. they add Play Eat Drink (P-E-D-ophilia) in the middle. Besta has the triangles. Terasol has the nested hearts, and if that’s too subtle, they added a big hand nested inside a small hand to symbolize the adult/child relationship.

  24. Lots and lots and lots of this. Especially look at the Finders link. Nothing happened to these people. They were all let go. CIA director William E. Colby was probably killed over the Finders. Maybe we need to find these people too. I assume this is done to keep people under control. You don’t fool around with kids you don’t get in the club and don’t reach the top of the power structure. A handful of serious prosecutors could tear the whole case wide open. Gary Caradori, an investigator for the Franklin affair, had them but his plane was blown up and the FBI gathered all the evidence and sent it?????

    https://wikispooks.com/wiki/The_Pedophocracy

    [MORE]

    1.Finders

    http://www.stewwebb.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Finders_Through_a_glass_very_darkly.jpg

    Now in Witchita kansas says Ted Gunderson

    2.Uncle Jimmy took me to his sick parties: Nephew tells how his childhood was stolen at 13

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2213636/Uncle-Jimmy-took-sick-parties-Nephew-tells-childhood-stolen-13.html

    .
    3.
    FBI Investigates Presidio Child Molestation Report(This was called hysteria but some of the children had sexually transmitted diseases)

    http://articles.latimes.com/1987-08-11/news/mn-846_1_child-molestation

    One of the men said to be involved by the children was a military intelligence officer.

    http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vatican/esp_vatican16a.htm

    4.
    “…Italian news reporters, who broadcast scenes from the films [child rape pedophile snuff] live at prime time on Italian television to more than 11 million Italian viewers….”

    http://www.prothink.org/tag/arie-scher-georges-schteinberg-israeli-pedophiles/ gone

    https://web.archive.org/web/20121225211730/http://www.prothink.org/tag/arie-scher-georges-schteinberg-israeli-pedophiles/

    5.

    https://isgp-studies.com/belgian-x-dossiers-of-the-dutroux-affair

    6.
    Victim Claims Sandusky Sex Scandal Connected to Philadelphia Pedophile Network _ American Free Press

    http://americanfreepress.net/web-exclusive-interview-victim-claims-sandusky-sex-scandal-connected-to-philadelphia-pedophile-network/

    http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/09/former-child-prostitute-claims-jerry-sandusky-was-part-pedophile-sex-ring/322896/

    7.
    The Franklin Scandal In-Depth Article – By: Nick Bryant

    http://www.franklincase.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=85&Itemid=21

    8.

    http://aangirfan.blogspot.com/2008/02/jersey-channel-tv-names-top-people.html

    9.
    Pictures of Pres. Bush with homosexual prostitute. This guy got a White house pass to be a press corespondent.

    http://www.texemarrs.com/images/bush_kisses_gannon.jpg

    http://www.911omissionreport.com/gannon/bushgannon.jpg

    http://www.texemarrs.com/images/w_hugs_gannon.jpg

    Lots more where these came. It’s in every country on the planet. Hell here’s another.

    From Children of God to The Family International

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2708458/Religious-sex-cult-survivor-tells-harrowing-story.html

  25. @No_0ne
    Strangely enough, someone with exactly the same name as the individual with a gun arrested at Comet Ping Pong, Edgar Maddison Welch (extra "d" and all), has a listing on IMDB. He's an actor:

    https://archive.is/VgKcj

    He is the same man.

    Interesting, huh? As I vaguely recall, this isn’t the first time a small-time actor has been a character in an event like this.

    There are many thousands of people across America who are trying to make acting a career. They will jump at any chance to get paid to play a role.

    Many of those people are flaky. I subscribe to the saying, “Actors are just carnys with good teeth.” This could be interpreted either way with regard to roles such people might play in weird events: Either the actor was hired, or the actor was just freaky enough to do it on his own.

  26. How do I know that Facebook screen cap has not been photoshopped to include that hashtag? Or for that matter, how do I know that it hasn’t been photoshopped to include the name ‘jimmycomet’?

    Actually, first of all, how do you know it? Then, after answering that, why should I believe it?

    • Replies: @benjaminl
    That's my question as well. Can't anyone photoshop anything these days?
    , @Tim Howells
    Once this story started to break Alefantis made his Instagram account private, but researchers have used the Way Back Machine to access the previously public posts. I just tried to do this myself, but I got long downloads and after about 10 minutes I cancelled out of it. I've seen enough highly consistent video and photos re Comet Pizza and Ping Pong, Alefantis, the Podestas and their "art" collections etc. to know that this whole thing stinks. At the very least these guys are creepy as Hell. Far, far too many explicit and implicit references to sex and violence with very young children and infants for my taste. If this is not being actively investigated by the FBI that stinks too. IMO this is yet another Jimmy Savile case: i.e. literally Satanic pedophilia on a vast scale, with the active collusion of our political and media elites.
  27. @Anonymous
    It's such a juicy story. You'd think the media would be all over it? Instead it's become their flagship cautionary tale about the evils of 'Fake News'

    It was really amazing to me that Bill Clinton and Prince Andrew were involved with this Epstein Island thing, yet nobody seemed to report on it at all. Again, it's a juicy story...who wouldn't want to get to the bottom this?

    The fact is the media is fused with the political class today. It's heavily saturated with Jews and and Homosexuals and there tends to be a sort of a 'secret handshake' aspect to both of these groups. I'm not sure the media today is interested in examining the political class too closely, particularly the Democrats. It's like a big family who are all looking out for each other.

    I notice this again with Hollywood and the allegations against Bryan Singer. Crickets. Nobody was interested in covering this stuff. It would be seen as déclassé to get overly worked up about it. After all thats what a prudish Christian would do...

    It’s such a juicy story. You’d think the media would be all over it? Instead it’s become their flagship cautionary tale about the evils of ‘Fake News’

    I was surprised, after having listened to last week’s 2Kevings/Grace and Steel podcast and searching “pizzagate”, to find a number of hits from WaPo, NYT, NewYorker, etc. As you say, the angle was different from what a curious person would hope to find.

    Of course their real concern was with the harmful effects of “fake news” on this honest small business, almost matching the concern they had for another mom-and-pop pizza joint in Indiana that declined to cater a hypothetical gay wedding reception a few years back.

    In any case, that the media would pay so much non-attention to this case is suspicious.

  28. @utu
    50,000 - No way.

    "Weiner’s sexting of young children" - what do you mean by young children? 13, 14 years old is young?

    Yes, obviously.

  29. The NYPD allegedly has some evidence but refuses to release it. The media refuses to ask questions about it. What we get instead is “debunking.” They set out to show that the story is false rather than attempting to find the truth.

    Where are the victims? What do they say?

    Are there any competent legal authorities left in this country? Or have they all been corrupted as well.

    Who will guard the Guardians?

  30. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Truth

    If Pizzagate turns out to have even a single-digit fraction of truth behind it, it may not just bring down the Clinton machine and Democratic Party, it may sound the death knell for the mainstream media as well.
     
    Your sad partisan shillery ruined what could have been a good article; you are are aware that Trump is associated with Epstein as well, right?

    Trump is connected to pedophilia circumstancially as much as these Pizzagate characters are. But because of partisanship, he’s not going to get the same sort of attention about it from the right.

    • Replies: @Anon
    No, he's been investigated and cleared of any nefarious connection. He noped right out as soon as he could get away. The excited lies about his Epstein connection are where the partisanship is.
  31. @biz
    How do I know that Facebook screen cap has not been photoshopped to include that hashtag? Or for that matter, how do I know that it hasn't been photoshopped to include the name 'jimmycomet'?

    Actually, first of all, how do you know it? Then, after answering that, why should I believe it?

    That’s my question as well. Can’t anyone photoshop anything these days?

  32. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @DanC
    Rotate the old logo for Besta Pizza 180 degrees. It is the pedophile BLogo symbol.

    That's why when it got publicised, Besta's management immediately deleted the old one and converted to a new, BLogo-free symbol on all their website and printed materials.

    What is interesting to note in mainstream media "debunkings" of PizzaGate is that they focus on the doubtful evidence, things that could be "interpreted either way" and they leave out the glaringly obvious pedophilia links, like the Besta Pizza logo.

    Just look at all the "debunking articles." Do any of them mention the old Besta logo? I haven't seen any.

    It seems to me this is the way to wean the public off the mainstream media. Hammer on the fact that the MSM insists on leaving out the clear, obvious evidence and tries to imply that everything is doubtful and open to interpretation. Then people will start to associate them with coverup and BS. The MSM can't recover from that.

    I’m not dismissing anything here, but as for

    That’s why when it got publicised, Besta’s management immediately deleted the old one and converted to a new, BLogo-free symbol on all their website and printed materials.

    if you found out your business logo (a triangular Greek key pattern) was used as a signaling device by pedophiles, wouldn’t you change it? I, like, probably, most readers, had certainly never heard of this symbol until today.

    By the way, Besta Pizza is the worst pizzeria name I’ve heard in a long time. The owners evidently have horrible taste or are more than a little clueless.

    Just playing advocatus diaboli, here.

    • Replies: @The Millennial Falcon
    Yeah - that's a reasonable explanation.

    There are a lot of reasonable explanations for all of the Pizzagate stuff, I'm sure. But there are unquestionably pedophile rings out there and they've involved some very powerful people who were hiding in plain sight. We have to be careful about being too eager to dismiss warning signs.
    , @Anonymous
    "Besta" probably comes from the last name "Podesta"...who I've read one of the brothers had part ownership in the business at some point. Just a thought, although, I agree, it's not the catchiest name. Lol!
    , @dahoit
    We gotta da besta pizza here!Italian American immigrant slang.(or slur,depending on ownerships ethnicity)
  33. @MQ
    This 'story' is complete horseshit / random confirmation bias. Scan the full social media accounts of any group of 100+ people and you could find just as much 'evidence' if you were determined to do so. This is scary -- the day that any social media post involving children that uses the word "chicken" anywhere in it counts as evidence of pedophilia is the day anyone could be smeared.

    Ron Unz should be ashamed of himself for giving this kind of unhinged paranoid fear-mongering space.

    Thank you, “MQ” (no doubt a Top Secret Agent in Her Majesty’s Intelligence Services) for your deep insights.

    It’s nice to know that the taxpayers are getting their money’s worth paying clever trolls such as you to squirt purple ink into the faces of the vigilant citizens who are trying to penetrate the curtain of deceit which has been so elaborately woven for them ever since 1914.

    I don’t think you will be able to cover this one up, though, the way you semi-succeeded with Pearl Harbor and the JFK assassination. The Mainstream Media are losing their grip on the Narrative. You can see this by the increasingly desperate tone of Carlos Slim’s Blog.

  34. @Red Reddingstein
    I've been perusing it for a couple of days and so far I'm not on board. I'd love for some damage to happen on the Clinton Foundation/Weiner front but this seems not to be it (maybe Haitian doings will fill that in). The Tamera Luzzatto email, when read in full, does not seem necessarily sinister; if you think listing the ages is too salient to be a non sequitur, you've never met an addle-brained yuppie woman who freely babbles bits of trivia about little children, especially when she's a relative and not their mother. I could even parse "further entertainment" as a sarcastic half-joke. (See "dining al fresco instead of al-CHILLio"--this is what suburban SWPL women think is called Humor.)

    The art collection is bad but remember, these are decadent rich liberals, well compensated for tax-farming us. They love to splurge on "subversive objects." It's a big leap from there to actual organized sex trafficking.

    Where there’s smoke….

    Fry ‘em all.

  35. anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    The children in some of these poor third-world ‘orphanages’ aren’t really orphans as we understand the term but are just from poor families who can’t take care of them. These international adoptions are a business where everyone along the line gets paid with the child being the commodity being sold to the end purchaser, people in the west seeking to adopt a child to make themselves feel good. As in the mentioned case, the agencies move around from country to country where people are poor and desperate and legal safeguards are weak. Although the end receivers seem to be mostly naive and well-meaning people there’s no telling how many aren’t.
    That a person with the stature of being a former president would hang around with a low-life like Epstein is really telling. He flew perhaps twenty-seven times on Epstein’s plane which makes him more than just a passing acquaintance. Birds of a feather flock together.
    The Canadians pulled in over three hundred people. If a country next to us, so similar to ours in many ways but with a fraction of our population, has so many that can be exposed at one time then how many could the US have? Yet we hardly ever hear much, just of a few lone wolves here and there. Look at how Sandusky got away with it for so many years. People didn’t want to know, turned a blind eye to it, because he was too valuable.
    This entire bunch who hobnob with each other have a very creepy vibe. There’s all these ‘coincidences’ that seem to gather together in one place.

  36. @MQ
    This 'story' is complete horseshit / random confirmation bias. Scan the full social media accounts of any group of 100+ people and you could find just as much 'evidence' if you were determined to do so. This is scary -- the day that any social media post involving children that uses the word "chicken" anywhere in it counts as evidence of pedophilia is the day anyone could be smeared.

    Ron Unz should be ashamed of himself for giving this kind of unhinged paranoid fear-mongering space.

    Do some of your own research on this topic and you will come to a different conclusion if you can get beyond your massive bias. The Burning Platform has featured a series of posts over the last few weeks that provide a volume of evidence that is impossible to discount.

    Most people cannot accept something like this would be real because they cannot fathom the depths of evil that exist in this world…..why, I don’t know. You’d think the fact that many of the people implicated have also been the ones fully on board with unprovoked wars that have killed, maimed and displaced millions of people, including children, would be evidence enough.

    Kudos to Ron Unz for exposing more people to this tragic, disgusting, horrendous story.

    • Agree: jacques sheete
    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    When we look at the immense scale of corruption in the political world it becomes much easier to understand how this can be when the spectre of blackmail is introduced. At one time homosexual blackmail was probably a potent force but now not so much, but what form of blackmail could ever be more potent than pedo-blackmail?
  37. Socionomic Theory documents that the public’s appetite for scandals is low when stocks and high and high when stocks are low.

    Case in point: The “news” about Enron was favorable all the way down, until the stock had lost way over 90%. Only then did “news” about criminality and malfeasance gain traction.

    This being the case, with stocks at All Time Highs after an astonishing 7 year vertical rally, pizzagate’s very existence here tells us that when the next bear market (in social mood, as revealed by stock prices) is in full swing, the level of sociopathic, demonic behaviors emerging into public consciousness will be unimaginable.

    I have no doubt whatsoever that child sex abuse, trafficking and even sex-related murder may well be hung around the necks of very, very famous persons, and the horrors so bad that those persons (if still alive) will not even make it to trial before they’re hung from a street lamp.

    Public disgust with those who ran (and run) the Federal Government will in all likelihood be so pervasive that it will undermine the very political cohesion of the United States.

  38. I recall an alleged (again, ALLEGED) fbi agent posting on pol that there was stuff ‘out there’ that could bring down the whole rotten barrel, and I wonder if pizzagate is what he referred to.

  39. @Buzz Mohawk

    Speaking of “artists,” I always thought the sicko, Salvador Dali was particularly deranged…!
     
    He wasn't deranged, just crassly commercial and lowbrow. He played up his gimmick of surrealist craziness to great profit.

    I remember a pre-Starbucks coffee shop I frequented in my old, bohemian college town. They had a signed, numbered Dali print hanging behind the toilet in the pisser. It was an interesting picture, a silkscreen print, as I recall. The signature was real.

    This was their hipster way of insulting Dali. Customers could relieve themselves while staring at one of Salvatore's many thousands of products. He sold them to thousands of rubes who otherwise wouldn't buy art.

    Art is always the province of the rich and privileged. It is a commercial enterprise. Even the "great" artists you might have learned about got their reputation by becoming popular with the elite. Today's art is best ignored.

    Before his death Dali signed thousands of blank artist media so that is could be printed after his death and sold as a “signed original” or a “signed and numbered print”. Dali convinced Picasso to do the same thing, but Picasso did not sign as large a number of blank media as Dali. When this was discovered after Dali’s death it was considered one of the biggest art fraud scandals of the century and part of its lasting effects is that Dali prints carry very little value even with a real signature.

    • Replies: @Lord Myrt
    Very Dada of Dali, especially since posthumous profits would be of no use to him.
    Sounds like a send up of the art market.
  40. @BucephalusXYZ
    This is by far the best survey of this topic that I've read.

    What is clear is that the contention that there is "no evidence", a contention that is asserted or implied in seemingly every mainstream media discussion, is flatly false. There is a vast array of pertinent evidence, much of it circumstantial, but much of it also suggesting something of the mindset of some of the central figures. Anyone who denies this is utterly oblivious, or a liar, or a fool.

    As to what the evidence establishes, that is a different question. If skilled and intelligent investigators fail to take it up, then motivated and fervent - if not entirely competent - inquirers will surely rise up in their stead.

    Watch for the “fake news” sources’ standard method for dealing with a large set of serious allegations like these from the internet’s “real news” sources. They will take the most absurd/least likely allegations and dispose of them. They will then unobtrusively fail to address harder to dismiss allegations. Instead they will argue to the effect that, some of these allegations are false so obviously all must be.

    The “truther” site Snopes once had a perfect example, since taken down, I suspect because it made the technique so obvious. One popular right-wing internet site claimed to link 100 or so suspicious deaths to the Clintons. Snopes attacked the obviously absurd linkages and was left with about twenty cases of persons who (1) were involved or rumored to be involved with nefarious activities involving the Clintons; (2) were scheduled to testify against the Clintons or rumored to be brokering plea deals; and (3) died under suspicious circumstances soon after. Snopes dismissed these with a comment to the effect that all public figures had numbers of known associates die like this; let’s just move on, folks; nothing to see here.

  41. @Truth

    If Pizzagate turns out to have even a single-digit fraction of truth behind it, it may not just bring down the Clinton machine and Democratic Party, it may sound the death knell for the mainstream media as well.
     
    Your sad partisan shillery ruined what could have been a good article; you are are aware that Trump is associated with Epstein as well, right?

    All the more reason to continue investigating ….eh….Troof?!

  42. One thing to consider is: How would you proceed in an investigation of something like this?
    Find out what is most likely going on in the law enforcement community. Is there an active investigation? What does it take to get one started?

    Who has jurisdiction?

    Violations of the Mann Act?

    Were interstate or international trafficking laws violated?

    Were sex tourism laws violated?

    There are many retired law enforcement people who have pursued these types of cases. Why not consult with some of them?

    Question More.

    • Replies: @Pontius
    One of the earliest "big" abuse cases at a Catholic orphanage in Canada was purposely kept under wraps because the chief of police and the clergymen involved had all gone through school together. Beat cops and detectives knew the score but the investigations went nowhere. In court, the chief claimed he couldn't remember salient details about the case since he had memory loss due to heart surgery.
  43. @MQ
    This 'story' is complete horseshit / random confirmation bias. Scan the full social media accounts of any group of 100+ people and you could find just as much 'evidence' if you were determined to do so. This is scary -- the day that any social media post involving children that uses the word "chicken" anywhere in it counts as evidence of pedophilia is the day anyone could be smeared.

    Ron Unz should be ashamed of himself for giving this kind of unhinged paranoid fear-mongering space.

    In one of my many different careers I worked for a couple of years as an outside consultant to the FBI’s ViCAP (now VICAP) program. About the time I was thus delving the depths of human depravity — and they are far deeper than the more fortunate readers of this are ever likely to learn — a scandal similar to this broke in Belgium, involving the highest levels of society, politics, and the EU bureaucracy in criminal conspiracies to kidnap children, sexually violate them, torture them, and even use them in the production of snuff films. A full investigation dead-ended after many suicides and suspicious deaths and disappearances. IMHO, based on some experience with criminal conspiracies of this type, the mass of material presented here is a pretty overwhelming indication that something very bad is happening. That the MSM (“fake new”) sources are not paying more attentionto this is scandalous.

    • Replies: @Alfred1860
    The Belgian case, among other high-profile quashed investigations, is summarized here:

    https://www.theburningplatform.com/2016/11/29/could-the-pizzagate-allegations-be-true/

    It was known as the Dutroux Affair.
  44. @Buzz Mohawk

    Speaking of “artists,” I always thought the sicko, Salvador Dali was particularly deranged…!
     
    He wasn't deranged, just crassly commercial and lowbrow. He played up his gimmick of surrealist craziness to great profit.

    I remember a pre-Starbucks coffee shop I frequented in my old, bohemian college town. They had a signed, numbered Dali print hanging behind the toilet in the pisser. It was an interesting picture, a silkscreen print, as I recall. The signature was real.

    This was their hipster way of insulting Dali. Customers could relieve themselves while staring at one of Salvatore's many thousands of products. He sold them to thousands of rubes who otherwise wouldn't buy art.

    Art is always the province of the rich and privileged. It is a commercial enterprise. Even the "great" artists you might have learned about got their reputation by becoming popular with the elite. Today's art is best ignored.

    Dali was a self-promoter, a con artist, and probably a sociopath. OTOH, he was from a purely technical standpoint one of the greatest, if not the greatest, painter of the twentieth century, When he chose to, Dali produced the finest surreal paintings. One should not dismiss Cellini’s sculptures because he was a homicidal egomaniac nor Gesualdo’s motets because he murdered his wife.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete

    One should not dismiss Cellini’s sculptures because he was a homicidal egomaniac nor Gesualdo’s motets because he murdered his wife.
     
    OTOH, no one should accept an obvious cow patty as a ham sandwich even if it was produced by a highly promoted cow either.

    A lot of these goofs are no Goyas.

  45. …I’m not going to commit myself to the idea that this is going to be as huge as Rotherham was.

    Sorry, but you are deluded if you believe Rotherham was “huge” in the media — even after the story broke, the English media did its best to downplay and underreport it — when they did report it, especially the BBC, it was always in a professional monotone, with no hint of outrage, or how disgusting and appalling all of it was, including/especially the behavior of the authorities — however let the BNP or EDL protest in front of the court where some of the Paki scum were being tried, and there you saw and felt media outrage — at this point, Rotherham has practically disappeared from the news — which is pretty sad because as everyone knows, it was just the tip of the iceberg.

    And as currently being framed and investigatively fleshed out, if Rotherham was “huge”, then Pizzagate will be a scandal of positively galactic dimension.

    People will not let this go the way they did with the Jeffrey Epstein sleaze.

  46. I am glad you posted this. I’m still undecided…. On the one hand, many of the people pushing this story seem to be crazy or not very intelligent. On the other hand, I have zero trust in the MSM and the “debunkings” are not very convincing. And the example of Rotherham is well chosen. Sometimes the fringe bloggers are right after all.

    I’ve seen very few people on Twitter who express neither “unconvincing dismissal” or “uncritical acceptance.” The only ones I’ve seen who seem to be, like me, “persuadable but unconvinced,” are @ChateauEmissary and @Stranahan.

    What kind of evidence would I expect to see, but have not seen yet?

    1. Most important: Has anyone come forward alleging to be a victim? Did I miss that? I think in every other scandal – Sandusky – Brian Singer – etc. – there were people who claimed to witness or experience these crimes. Is there anything like that here?
    In particular, now that there are thousands of people working on this, shouldn’t someone, even if afraid to be named or to contact law enforcement, have at least posted anonymously on 4Chan or Reddit, saying, “I was there, this happened to me, this is what I saw”?

    2. More critical evaluation of sources especially images. As noted in my previous comment, I assume that any image can be faked. And some of the “evidence” does look fake. So, who is evaluating the images to see which ones are real and which ones are fake?

    • Replies: @Si1ver1ock
    I put a link to a video. If the video is correct, it will be hard to explain the App.

    Apps have a history and a pedigree. Someone needs to find the name of the app and where it came from. Maybe someone can get a copy of it.

    What is the app for? Ordering Pizza? Doesn't seem likely.

    , @Anonymous
    These are some of the most powerful people in the most powerful country in the world. Testifying is likely a death sentence.
  47. @BucephalusXYZ
    This is by far the best survey of this topic that I've read.

    What is clear is that the contention that there is "no evidence", a contention that is asserted or implied in seemingly every mainstream media discussion, is flatly false. There is a vast array of pertinent evidence, much of it circumstantial, but much of it also suggesting something of the mindset of some of the central figures. Anyone who denies this is utterly oblivious, or a liar, or a fool.

    As to what the evidence establishes, that is a different question. If skilled and intelligent investigators fail to take it up, then motivated and fervent - if not entirely competent - inquirers will surely rise up in their stead.

    Pizza gate would go away in an hour if the Pedesta brothers would present a believable innocent explanation for their obvious coded email messages. Hey Tony, what are you talking about and don’t say its food. Nobody talks about pizza dozens of times in email.

  48. The msm is not paid to open the man-hole covers and expose the sewer dwellers.
    Especially so when the sewer dwellers are the people to whom the msm must have access
    for their “anonymous” quotes.
    For the next 8 years the msm will be needing access to the Podestas, and the Clintons, and
    the Obamas for “authoritative” but “unsourced” quotes. So no matter the truth or the falsity
    the completeness or the incompleteness of Pizzagate; it will not be investigated.

  49. @benjaminl
    I am glad you posted this. I'm still undecided.... On the one hand, many of the people pushing this story seem to be crazy or not very intelligent. On the other hand, I have zero trust in the MSM and the "debunkings" are not very convincing. And the example of Rotherham is well chosen. Sometimes the fringe bloggers are right after all.

    I've seen very few people on Twitter who express neither "unconvincing dismissal" or "uncritical acceptance." The only ones I've seen who seem to be, like me, "persuadable but unconvinced," are @ChateauEmissary and @Stranahan.

    What kind of evidence would I expect to see, but have not seen yet?

    1. Most important: Has anyone come forward alleging to be a victim? Did I miss that? I think in every other scandal - Sandusky - Brian Singer - etc. - there were people who claimed to witness or experience these crimes. Is there anything like that here?
    In particular, now that there are thousands of people working on this, shouldn't someone, even if afraid to be named or to contact law enforcement, have at least posted anonymously on 4Chan or Reddit, saying, "I was there, this happened to me, this is what I saw"?

    2. More critical evaluation of sources especially images. As noted in my previous comment, I assume that any image can be faked. And some of the "evidence" does look fake. So, who is evaluating the images to see which ones are real and which ones are fake?

    I put a link to a video. If the video is correct, it will be hard to explain the App.

    Apps have a history and a pedigree. Someone needs to find the name of the app and where it came from. Maybe someone can get a copy of it.

    What is the app for? Ordering Pizza? Doesn’t seem likely.

  50. Thank you for this article. It is well written and makes the point I have been trying to make. That the Wikileaks taken together with the Instagram photos warrant an investigation. A person with a predilection to pedophilia (based on the Instagram photos, choice of music, and music recordings at the Pizza Parlor premises) at the least, should not be running a “child-friendly” pizza parlor without some kind of societal due diligence to ensure the safety of our children.

    On the one hand, what is lost if an investigation occurs and it turns out there is no wrong doing? We would have wasted some tax dollars and time of the law enforcement teams, but James Alefantis would in fact benefit from being exonerated. If however, there is ANY truth and any harm has and is occurring to children, then the greater good resulting from the investigation would be without price.

  51. The only evidence here is that Tony Podesta’s tastes are depraved. He runs a major Washington lobbying firm: It is hardly surprising that a Potomac swamp creature such as Podesta would prefer spirit cooking over meat and potatoes.

  52. Wow. So ‘chicken’ means little kids? I did not know that. Well, Aedon, you just ruined a perfectly good blues song for me!

  53. @Wizard of Oz
    If you can confuse Rotherham and Rotterdam perhaps you think the Podesta brothers, Jimmy Savile, Cyril Smith, Jeremy Thorpe, Rolf Harris, Mark Thompson and all those Rotherham Pakistanis ate Jewish.....

    He probably believes that Greville Janner is jewish, too. These conspiracy theorists…

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Assuming you are too smart for elementary logical fallacies..... what is your point? Pedophilia and all sorts of sexual misbehaviour seem to be an oecumenical affair.
  54. @MQ
    This 'story' is complete horseshit / random confirmation bias. Scan the full social media accounts of any group of 100+ people and you could find just as much 'evidence' if you were determined to do so. This is scary -- the day that any social media post involving children that uses the word "chicken" anywhere in it counts as evidence of pedophilia is the day anyone could be smeared.

    Ron Unz should be ashamed of himself for giving this kind of unhinged paranoid fear-mongering space.

    Nothing to see here. Just shut it down. It’s for your own good. These people at trusted legacy media outlets have your best interests at heart, after all. They know best.

  55. @Jus' Sayin'...
    In one of my many different careers I worked for a couple of years as an outside consultant to the FBI's ViCAP (now VICAP) program. About the time I was thus delving the depths of human depravity -- and they are far deeper than the more fortunate readers of this are ever likely to learn -- a scandal similar to this broke in Belgium, involving the highest levels of society, politics, and the EU bureaucracy in criminal conspiracies to kidnap children, sexually violate them, torture them, and even use them in the production of snuff films. A full investigation dead-ended after many suicides and suspicious deaths and disappearances. IMHO, based on some experience with criminal conspiracies of this type, the mass of material presented here is a pretty overwhelming indication that something very bad is happening. That the MSM ("fake new") sources are not paying more attentionto this is scandalous.

    The Belgian case, among other high-profile quashed investigations, is summarized here:

    https://www.theburningplatform.com/2016/11/29/could-the-pizzagate-allegations-be-true/

    It was known as the Dutroux Affair.

  56. @Wizard of Oz
    What and who do you mean by Central Banksters?

    You’re not aware of the existence of the Fed, and similar institutions in other countries? That’s odd.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    I probably know a good deal more about central banks than most of those who obsess about them on UR. Did you not notice the suggestion of madness in his last par? He's probably a waste of time to converse with so I thought I might just try winkling out some sane meaning from him in the shortest way to start with.
  57. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Anonymous
    Trump is connected to pedophilia circumstancially as much as these Pizzagate characters are. But because of partisanship, he's not going to get the same sort of attention about it from the right.

    No, he’s been investigated and cleared of any nefarious connection. He noped right out as soon as he could get away. The excited lies about his Epstein connection are where the partisanship is.

  58. @FKA Max

    Furthermore, Tony Podesta’s favorite artist is Biljana Djurdjevic, whose art heavily features images of children in BDSM-esque positions in large showers.
     
    Psychopathy in the Pedophile (From Psychopathy: Antisocial, Criminal, and Violent Behavior, P 304-320, 1998, Theodore Millon, Erik Simonsen, et al, eds.--See NCJ-179236)

    This paper argues that pedophilia may represent a special case or subcase of psychopathy and that the main aims of both the psychopath and the pedophile are to dominate, to use, and to subjugate another person in service of the grandiose self. [...] It notes that the major differences between psychopaths and pedophiles are that the object of the predation for the pedophile is a child and that the overt behavioral manifestation of the pathology is sexual.
     
    - https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/publications/Abstract.aspx?id=179240

    I just wanted to reemphasize Scott Adams’ statement about the scandal:

    Over on his blog, Scott Adams asks us to keep in mind cases where confirmation bias did lead to false allegations of institutional pedophilia, to caution against excessive confidence.

    These types of investigations and scandals can easily lead to ‘witch hunts’ and ‘panics’ and need to be handled with the greatest care, prudence, and levelheadedness possible.

    ———-

    I wanted to add the following study/information, because as the study states ‘These results provide further evidence of the importance of distinguishing between these groups of offenders.

    This might just be an irrelevant distinction for most people appalled by this potential/alleged abuse of power and authority of ‘our’ elites; but I believe we might mostly be looking at and dealing with psychopathy and not necessarily ‘just’ pedophilia in this Pizzagate scandal.

    This has several different implications for how this scandal might be handled or be covered up, etc., because psychopaths are master liars, deflectors, charmers, etc., i.e. ‘pillars of the community,’ ‘movers and shakers,’ etc.

    There is another curious connection here; Professor Robert Hare – the father of psychopathy research – said this:

    Hare considers newspaper tycoon Robert Maxwell to have been a strong candidate as a corporate psychopath.[10]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy_in_the_workplace#General

    Robert Maxwell is the father of Ghislaine Maxwell, who is close friends with Jeffery Epstein:

    In an American court case that was made public in January 2015, a woman identified as ‘Jane Doe 3′ said she was approached by Maxwell in 1999, and claimed that Maxwell procured under-age girls to have sex with Epstein. Maxwell has always denied any involvement in Epstein’s crimes.[10] She said: “She [Ghislaine] said she’d hit hard times. Jeffrey offered her a job and then, I guess, because of her ability to procure girls, she became a vital asset to him.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghislaine_Maxwell


    Psychopathy among pedophilic and nonpedophilic child molesters.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22571910

    Abstract
    OBJECTIVE:
    Among men who commit sexual offenses against children, at least 2 distinct groups can be identified on the basis of the age of the primary targets of their sexual interest; pedophiles and nonpedophiles.
    METHOD:
    In the present report, across 2 independent samples of both types of child molesters as well as controls, a total of 104 men (53 pedophilic and 51 nonpedophilic) who had sexually offended against a child age 13 or younger were compared to each other (and to 49 non-sex offender controls) on psychopathy as assessed by the Psychopathic Personality Inventory (PPI).
    RESULTS:
    In both samples of child molesters, the nonpedophiles scored as significantly more psychopathic than the pedophiles.
    CONCLUSIONS:
    These results provide further evidence of the importance of distinguishing between these groups of offenders.

  59. @DanC
    Rotate the old logo for Besta Pizza 180 degrees. It is the pedophile BLogo symbol.

    That's why when it got publicised, Besta's management immediately deleted the old one and converted to a new, BLogo-free symbol on all their website and printed materials.

    What is interesting to note in mainstream media "debunkings" of PizzaGate is that they focus on the doubtful evidence, things that could be "interpreted either way" and they leave out the glaringly obvious pedophilia links, like the Besta Pizza logo.

    Just look at all the "debunking articles." Do any of them mention the old Besta logo? I haven't seen any.

    It seems to me this is the way to wean the public off the mainstream media. Hammer on the fact that the MSM insists on leaving out the clear, obvious evidence and tries to imply that everything is doubtful and open to interpretation. Then people will start to associate them with coverup and BS. The MSM can't recover from that.

    Valuable article.

    In the picture of a man holding a small child, the bead necklace alludes to semen, and Besta is also one vowel short of Bestia, “Beast.”

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
    Valuable comment!

    Holy...bleep! You ARE a flippin genius! Thanks for pointing that out!!!

    Man, there's some sick sh!t out there.
    , @Sunbeam
    "the bead necklace alludes to semen,"

    Uhhh.... what?
    , @Anon
    I think DC should be called New Havana.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwFC9QKCzgw

    Even if there was no pedo stuff, it is deeply dispiriting, disillusioning, and disturbing that we are ruled by such people into or tolerant of homo-degeneracy, decadence, puerile sensibility, and cynicism.

    Everything about them seems to be about power and privilege for power and privilege's sake.

    But in a world in which God is dead, culture is degenerate, traditions are forgotten, morality is a joke, and identities are based on TV shows & porny music, what can we expect? Boomers' gift to us.

    When degeneracy and perversion are so widespread, every transgressor is looking out for others. Bruce Jenner is a 'woman', privileged people are into cuck or swinging culture, young kids have access to hard porn, pop music is prostitution, etc.
    And more and more female teachers are caught having sex with students.

    Since so many are into one perversion or another, they go wink-wink with everyone else.

  60. @Henry's Cat

    In one email, Podesta is among those being invited to a farm and the host says, “Bonnie will be Uber Service to transport Ruby, Emerson, and Maeve Luzzatto (11, 9, and almost 7) so you’ll have some further entertainment, and they will be in [the] pool for sure.”

    Could that have an innocent explanation? Sure, maybe. But inviting a group of adult men to a gathering and calling young children “further entertainment” while listing their ages is weird , whether it ends up having an explanation or not.
     

    But that comes Tamera Luzzatto and appear to involve her grandchildren: http://archive.is/JGhR6

    And the group includes several adult women including Podesta's wife.

    If this is exhibit #1, I think the prosecution case just got off to a bad start.

    It’s hard to believe but there are extremely disturbing examples of mothers encouraging and even participating in the sexual abuse of their children. To cite one high-profile example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marion_Zimmer_Bradley#Child_sex_abuse_allegations

    It’s best not to underestimate human capacity for evil. I heartily echo the author’s urging to take this seriously.

    • Replies: @Anon
    I think the girl abused by Roman Polanski was offered up by her mother.

    Given Hollywood and Jewish community's support of Polanski, something is very fishy.

    And look at Woltz.

    https://youtu.be/Lkp9UnXM72Q?t=1m7s

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13EmjpXQ8_w

    And look at this freaky stuff:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnrdetFAo1o
  61. @DanC
    Rotate the old logo for Besta Pizza 180 degrees. It is the pedophile BLogo symbol.

    That's why when it got publicised, Besta's management immediately deleted the old one and converted to a new, BLogo-free symbol on all their website and printed materials.

    What is interesting to note in mainstream media "debunkings" of PizzaGate is that they focus on the doubtful evidence, things that could be "interpreted either way" and they leave out the glaringly obvious pedophilia links, like the Besta Pizza logo.

    Just look at all the "debunking articles." Do any of them mention the old Besta logo? I haven't seen any.

    It seems to me this is the way to wean the public off the mainstream media. Hammer on the fact that the MSM insists on leaving out the clear, obvious evidence and tries to imply that everything is doubtful and open to interpretation. Then people will start to associate them with coverup and BS. The MSM can't recover from that.

    this is why unz is so good. there is good chance to learn something new.

  62. @Anon
    I'm not dismissing anything here, but as for

    That’s why when it got publicised, Besta’s management immediately deleted the old one and converted to a new, BLogo-free symbol on all their website and printed materials.
     
    if you found out your business logo (a triangular Greek key pattern) was used as a signaling device by pedophiles, wouldn't you change it? I, like, probably, most readers, had certainly never heard of this symbol until today.

    By the way, Besta Pizza is the worst pizzeria name I've heard in a long time. The owners evidently have horrible taste or are more than a little clueless.

    Just playing advocatus diaboli, here.

    Yeah – that’s a reasonable explanation.

    There are a lot of reasonable explanations for all of the Pizzagate stuff, I’m sure. But there are unquestionably pedophile rings out there and they’ve involved some very powerful people who were hiding in plain sight. We have to be careful about being too eager to dismiss warning signs.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
    why dismiss at all? always investigate to the fullest of any signs of pedophile rings. why anyone would want to dismiss warning signs without an investigation?
  63. Nobody yet has mentioned child sacrifice and the so-called blood libel so I will do it. It have never heard about the sexual context in case in which Jews were accused of kidnapping and killing children in Europe and Middle East since Middle Ages till 19 century. And what about the organ harvesting? Is it possible that pedophilia and organ harvesting and yes children sacrifice can somehow be linked?

    The Bloody Passovers of Dr Toaff

    http://www.israelshamir.net/English/Eng11.htm

    http://www.israelshamir.net/BLOODPASSOVER.pdf

    • Replies: @Max Payne
    Gods chosen people and pedophilia goes hand in hand. This is as common knowledge as the Afghani tribes that practice man-boy love.

    It's just part of their culture/religion/talmud/whatever.

    Why you gotta be anti-Semitic? Just accept other peoples culture man.
  64. Sometimes I wonder whether Dennis Hastert presided over Bill Clinton impeachment because of his pedophilia or despite of it. He ended up being the Speaker of the House after two previous ones resigned probably because they did not want to be involved with the impeachment business.

    Was the punishment of Dennis Hastert on relatively obscure charge Clinton’s revenge?

    • Replies: @Avery
    { the punishment of Dennis Hastert on relatively obscure charge }

    What 'relatively obscure charge'?
  65. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    “‘I watched Tory MP MURDER a boy during depraved Westminster VIP paedophile party’”

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/i-watched-tory-mp-murder-4636497

    A victim of the Westminster paedophile abuse scandal has claimed he saw a Conservative MP murder a young boy during a depraved sex party.

    And the Sunday People can reveal that detectives are investigating THREE murders allegedly linked to a network of VIP perverts.

    The horrifying account comes days after Scotland Yard confirmed they have launched a murder probe ­connected to allegations of sex abuse from the 1970s and 80s.

  66. Before Rotherham there were allegations of organised abuse in the Yorkshire towns of Bradford and Keighley – the then BNP (British National Party) leader Nick Griffin was IIRC charged among other things with fomenting racial hatred by pointing this out (he was acquitted by a Leeds jury).

    There’s a report of one (smaller-scale as these things go – some involve multiple perps, violence, forcibly adminstered drugs) anonymised instance from an unofficial police perspective in the Guardian of all places, when the Orwell Prize for investigative journalism was given to an anonymous police blog. Since then the police have pretty much shut all police blogs down. Scroll to “24 Hours to Crack the Case (Part Two)”.

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2009/may/17/night-jack-orwell-prize

  67. @MQ
    This 'story' is complete horseshit / random confirmation bias. Scan the full social media accounts of any group of 100+ people and you could find just as much 'evidence' if you were determined to do so. This is scary -- the day that any social media post involving children that uses the word "chicken" anywhere in it counts as evidence of pedophilia is the day anyone could be smeared.

    Ron Unz should be ashamed of himself for giving this kind of unhinged paranoid fear-mongering space.

    Lot of smoke here, must be a fire burning somewhere, like on Comet Ping Pong’s Instagram page which has pics of pedophilia.

    https://www.instagram.com/explore/locations/85083/comet-ping-pong/

    But someone as astute as MQ might just call that depravity ‘art.’

    • Replies: @Olorin
    Something confuses me about those images.

    This dive serves beer and cocktails (hard liquor), right?

    On all the concert/gig poster photos I glanced at, they showed the cover charge...and then said "All ages."

    Is it legal in DC for children to be in bars?

    Not that I could imagine taking my children to a place where the bathroom graffiti says "shut up and f***." And where I imagine every surface has been touched so to speak by HIV+ syphilitics and the food cooked by people with hepatitis....

  68. @biz
    How do I know that Facebook screen cap has not been photoshopped to include that hashtag? Or for that matter, how do I know that it hasn't been photoshopped to include the name 'jimmycomet'?

    Actually, first of all, how do you know it? Then, after answering that, why should I believe it?

    Once this story started to break Alefantis made his Instagram account private, but researchers have used the Way Back Machine to access the previously public posts. I just tried to do this myself, but I got long downloads and after about 10 minutes I cancelled out of it. I’ve seen enough highly consistent video and photos re Comet Pizza and Ping Pong, Alefantis, the Podestas and their “art” collections etc. to know that this whole thing stinks. At the very least these guys are creepy as Hell. Far, far too many explicit and implicit references to sex and violence with very young children and infants for my taste. If this is not being actively investigated by the FBI that stinks too. IMO this is yet another Jimmy Savile case: i.e. literally Satanic pedophilia on a vast scale, with the active collusion of our political and media elites.

    • Replies: @Anonymous Nephew
    "IMO this is yet another Jimmy Savile case: i.e. literally Satanic pedophilia on a vast scale, with the active collusion of our political and media elites"

    Savile case wasn't that at all - more like famous DJ/charity fundraiser with great PR taking advantage of his status with teenage girls. How many of the post-death allegations are true, who knows, but we know some definitely aren't true - we know because long-time blogger Anna Raccoon was a resident of a small children's home where Savile was claimed to have abused girls. She has a whole series of seven posts called "Past Lives and Present Misgivings" on the allegations.

    http://annaraccoon.com/2012/10/24/past-lives-and-present-misgivings-part-four/

    More "active collusion" is likely in the cases of Cyril Smith and Greville Janner, two pretty high-profile and connected MPs, who seem to have managed to go to their graves scot free.
  69. @The Millennial Falcon
    Yeah - that's a reasonable explanation.

    There are a lot of reasonable explanations for all of the Pizzagate stuff, I'm sure. But there are unquestionably pedophile rings out there and they've involved some very powerful people who were hiding in plain sight. We have to be careful about being too eager to dismiss warning signs.

    why dismiss at all? always investigate to the fullest of any signs of pedophile rings. why anyone would want to dismiss warning signs without an investigation?

  70. @MQ
    This 'story' is complete horseshit / random confirmation bias. Scan the full social media accounts of any group of 100+ people and you could find just as much 'evidence' if you were determined to do so. This is scary -- the day that any social media post involving children that uses the word "chicken" anywhere in it counts as evidence of pedophilia is the day anyone could be smeared.

    Ron Unz should be ashamed of himself for giving this kind of unhinged paranoid fear-mongering space.

    Your comment sounds familiar to me. Are you writing from the UK perchance?

    Back in the mid-Aughts I was surprised by how often I saw commenters at MSM news sites talking about the grooming and abduction of white girls in cities in England. At the time I was regularly reading BBC, Guardian, Telegraph, and Times. The stories where these comments appeared were diverse in topic.

    Sometimes other comments would share similar experiences. Some would say they talked to someone who claimed similar experience. Others would say they’d heard murmurs of such things.

    These voices repeatedly called on the MSM outlet to investigate, or they wondered why no response was forthcoming from elected officials or policymakers.

    This was after–I later learned–Ann Cryer (MP for Keighley) had bravely stepped forward on behalf of girls whose parents had approached her for help. IOW, the cat was emerging from the bag, but the MSM were trying to stuff it back in.

    Dismissive responses to these comments frequently were framed as yours is here: nothing to see here, move along, it’s confirmation bias, you people are nuts, mods, step in and censor them!

    In the Rotherham/etc. case, racism, Islamophobia, etc., were trotted out to inflict silence.

    What was most noteworthy to me, and creepy, was how these comments would be removed from the comment streams of these outlets.

    Sometimes the comments would be deleted but the response calling them racists or Islamophobes allowed to stand.

    By the late Aughts I was convinced some sort of coverup was underway of something terrible indeed.

    We now know that the MSM were key players in that.

    Similar murmurings were afoot in Pennsylvania for many years prior to the revelations of the sexual abuse of children by Penn State coach Sandusky. I knew men who steered their sons away from football in general, guiding them instead to hockey or lacrosse, because the word on the street was that football camp was not a safe place for boys anymore. (Nor, increasingly, Boy Scouts or church camps.)

    The gig is up for the MSM acting as panderers and pimps in the Cathedragogue of their own degenerate Narrative-religion.

    They won’t go down without a fight. They have more power and money to lose than any of the kids victimized by pedocidal perverts.

    But what those kids have to lose is a treasure of vastly more importance than power and money.

    Thing is, truth and goodness of spirit will win. This is part of why these degenerates fight back as they do. They can put truth and goodness on the run for only so long. They fight back not because they are losing, but because, by nature, they can never join the winning side of truth and goodness. It’s just not in them.

    All the more reason they need to be found out and reined in hard.

    One last thing, regarding some people’s assertion that these symbols, in-jokes, etc., are all “just a game.” Or, worse, “art.” (Which implies getting money and power by representing degeneracy to decorate rich people’s businesses, homes…and bedrooms.)

    If pedophilia, grooming, and child rape are now matters to take lightly as shibboleths of entrance to circles of power, then those circles of power need to be napalmed.

    “In the beginning there were the swamp, the hoe, and Jussi.”

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    I've just glanced at this but picked up the reference to removal of comments while retaining the responses to them which criticise the former as racist etc.

    Interesting to speculate how this came about. It does suggeest, does it not, that a would be whistleblower subverted attempts at cover up???
  71. @Truth

    If Pizzagate turns out to have even a single-digit fraction of truth behind it, it may not just bring down the Clinton machine and Democratic Party, it may sound the death knell for the mainstream media as well.
     
    Your sad partisan shillery ruined what could have been a good article; you are are aware that Trump is associated with Epstein as well, right?

    In that case you should be in favor of investigating “Pizzagate” since the left is having conniption fits over the God-Emperor’s ascension.

    • Replies: @Truth
    I'm in favor of investigating any cinspiracy, and at the top, this silly "right-left" thing is nothing more than a distractionary rouse.
  72. @Greg Bacon
    Lot of smoke here, must be a fire burning somewhere, like on Comet Ping Pong's Instagram page which has pics of pedophilia.

    https://www.instagram.com/explore/locations/85083/comet-ping-pong/

    But someone as astute as MQ might just call that depravity 'art.'

    Something confuses me about those images.

    This dive serves beer and cocktails (hard liquor), right?

    On all the concert/gig poster photos I glanced at, they showed the cover charge…and then said “All ages.”

    Is it legal in DC for children to be in bars?

    Not that I could imagine taking my children to a place where the bathroom graffiti says “shut up and f***.” And where I imagine every surface has been touched so to speak by HIV+ syphilitics and the food cooked by people with hepatitis….

    • Replies: @Alden
    It is legal for children to be in restaurants that serve liquor. Those places are pizza restaurants serve liquor.
    It is illegal for children to be in bars that serve only liquor but not food.
  73. @Wizard of Oz
    What and who do you mean by Central Banksters?

    lolz. “central banksters”… whooooo could they possibly beeeee…..? follow the $hekel$….. little men behind the curtains…. those great and powerful ozzzzies- such a clever little wizard you are.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    See #117 if that's not too much intellectual effort for you.
  74. @for-the-record
    See, for example,

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-24513267

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/10377714/Madeleine-McCann-E-fit-suspect-was-carrying-child-police-reveal.html

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Efit_images_of_Madeleine_McCann_suspect.jpg

    Wow!!

  75. @utu
    50,000 - No way.

    "Weiner’s sexting of young children" - what do you mean by young children? 13, 14 years old is young?

    If it’s my children to whom some perverted, undeveloped “man” is “sexting”, the answer is simply “too young” and “young enough for the guy to die.”

    How would you react if someone sent sexual photos or propositions to your 13-year-old child? Specifically how, and why.

    • Replies: @utu
    "3-year-old child" - it is redundant to say child in this case. You you are using overly dramatic language.

    “young enough for the guy to die.” - So you would kill people for sexting to minors?

    "How would you react if someone sent sexual photos or propositions to your 13-year-old child?" I would punish my child first and cut it of internet.
  76. @Olorin
    Your comment sounds familiar to me. Are you writing from the UK perchance?

    Back in the mid-Aughts I was surprised by how often I saw commenters at MSM news sites talking about the grooming and abduction of white girls in cities in England. At the time I was regularly reading BBC, Guardian, Telegraph, and Times. The stories where these comments appeared were diverse in topic.

    Sometimes other comments would share similar experiences. Some would say they talked to someone who claimed similar experience. Others would say they'd heard murmurs of such things.

    These voices repeatedly called on the MSM outlet to investigate, or they wondered why no response was forthcoming from elected officials or policymakers.

    This was after--I later learned--Ann Cryer (MP for Keighley) had bravely stepped forward on behalf of girls whose parents had approached her for help. IOW, the cat was emerging from the bag, but the MSM were trying to stuff it back in.

    Dismissive responses to these comments frequently were framed as yours is here: nothing to see here, move along, it's confirmation bias, you people are nuts, mods, step in and censor them!

    In the Rotherham/etc. case, racism, Islamophobia, etc., were trotted out to inflict silence.

    What was most noteworthy to me, and creepy, was how these comments would be removed from the comment streams of these outlets.

    Sometimes the comments would be deleted but the response calling them racists or Islamophobes allowed to stand.

    By the late Aughts I was convinced some sort of coverup was underway of something terrible indeed.

    We now know that the MSM were key players in that.

    Similar murmurings were afoot in Pennsylvania for many years prior to the revelations of the sexual abuse of children by Penn State coach Sandusky. I knew men who steered their sons away from football in general, guiding them instead to hockey or lacrosse, because the word on the street was that football camp was not a safe place for boys anymore. (Nor, increasingly, Boy Scouts or church camps.)

    The gig is up for the MSM acting as panderers and pimps in the Cathedragogue of their own degenerate Narrative-religion.

    They won't go down without a fight. They have more power and money to lose than any of the kids victimized by pedocidal perverts.

    But what those kids have to lose is a treasure of vastly more importance than power and money.

    Thing is, truth and goodness of spirit will win. This is part of why these degenerates fight back as they do. They can put truth and goodness on the run for only so long. They fight back not because they are losing, but because, by nature, they can never join the winning side of truth and goodness. It's just not in them.

    All the more reason they need to be found out and reined in hard.

    One last thing, regarding some people's assertion that these symbols, in-jokes, etc., are all "just a game." Or, worse, "art." (Which implies getting money and power by representing degeneracy to decorate rich people's businesses, homes...and bedrooms.)

    If pedophilia, grooming, and child rape are now matters to take lightly as shibboleths of entrance to circles of power, then those circles of power need to be napalmed.

    "In the beginning there were the swamp, the hoe, and Jussi."

    I’ve just glanced at this but picked up the reference to removal of comments while retaining the responses to them which criticise the former as racist etc.

    Interesting to speculate how this came about. It does suggeest, does it not, that a would be whistleblower subverted attempts at cover up???

    • Replies: @Olorin
    No idea, Wiz, and I won't speculate.

    My provisional reaction was that readers were trying to get input into the news-agenda-setting process in the main way available to them (commenting, supplying a "tip"), and having their comments removed because they challenged the multicultural/Islaminvasion Narrative.

    I saw this enough times that it made an impression on me--things disappearing from one day/week to the next. Maybe confirmation bias, but I didn't have a bias in that direction to begin with at the time. I didn't even know about Ann Cryer at the time.

    I figured that the retention of the "Shut up you racist" comments was more in line with what we see in "higher ed" in the US, where the "diversity response teams" on campus allege a hate crime but won't tell you what it was (coz, of course, that would TRIGGER people--far more important than a factual relating of events). But they're happy to scream "racist racist racist." To underscore the narrative of Racists Are Bad And They Walk Among Us.

  77. @BucephalusXYZ
    This is by far the best survey of this topic that I've read.

    What is clear is that the contention that there is "no evidence", a contention that is asserted or implied in seemingly every mainstream media discussion, is flatly false. There is a vast array of pertinent evidence, much of it circumstantial, but much of it also suggesting something of the mindset of some of the central figures. Anyone who denies this is utterly oblivious, or a liar, or a fool.

    As to what the evidence establishes, that is a different question. If skilled and intelligent investigators fail to take it up, then motivated and fervent - if not entirely competent - inquirers will surely rise up in their stead.

    “There is a vast array of pertinent evidence, much of it circumstantial, but much of it also suggesting something of the mindset of some of the central figures.”

    Pertinent evidence conjured up by the Coalition of the Right Fringe groups. Circumstantial, indeed. Thanks, Fake News Fanatic.

    “While many of these claims are wild speculation over coincidences (though by no means all of them are), at some point I think a bunch of weird coincidences involving pedophilia and kids becomes sort of damning in and of itself.”

    A classic Fake News Story by the Coalition of the Fringes Right. Scores of wild speculation + weird coincidences = truth.

    Thanks!

    • Replies: @BucephalusXYZ
    It is useful to note that Corvinus is himself engaging in outright misrepresentation here.

    He quotes two sentences. Here's the first:
    “There is a vast array of pertinent evidence, much of it circumstantial, but much of it also suggesting something of the mindset of some of the central figures.”
    This comes from my comment, and I endorse it.

    Here's the second:
    “While many of these claims are wild speculation over coincidences (though by no means all of them are), at some point I think a bunch of weird coincidences involving pedophilia and kids becomes sort of damning in and of itself.”
    Corvinus offers no attribution, leaving the clear impression that this is also from my comment. But it is not; it is from the original article.

    My own comment continues in a rather different direction, drawing a contrast between intelligent examination of the evidence and fervent, if not so competent, investigation. Clearly my comment endorses the former.
  78. @Si1ver1ock
    One thing to consider is: How would you proceed in an investigation of something like this?
    Find out what is most likely going on in the law enforcement community. Is there an active investigation? What does it take to get one started?

    Who has jurisdiction?

    Violations of the Mann Act?

    Were interstate or international trafficking laws violated?

    Were sex tourism laws violated?


    There are many retired law enforcement people who have pursued these types of cases. Why not consult with some of them?

    Question More.

    One of the earliest “big” abuse cases at a Catholic orphanage in Canada was purposely kept under wraps because the chief of police and the clergymen involved had all gone through school together. Beat cops and detectives knew the score but the investigations went nowhere. In court, the chief claimed he couldn’t remember salient details about the case since he had memory loss due to heart surgery.

    • Replies: @Si1ver1ock
    Seems apropos. There was a time when accusing Catholic Priests of being pedos sounded ludicrous.

    Now it's a standing joke.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VABSoHYQr6k
  79. @utu
    Sometimes I wonder whether Dennis Hastert presided over Bill Clinton impeachment because of his pedophilia or despite of it. He ended up being the Speaker of the House after two previous ones resigned probably because they did not want to be involved with the impeachment business.

    Was the punishment of Dennis Hastert on relatively obscure charge Clinton's revenge?

    { the punishment of Dennis Hastert on relatively obscure charge }

    What ‘relatively obscure charge’?

    • Replies: @utu
    "What ‘relatively obscure charge’?" - Making payments in a manner hiding the detection of payments. Payments were not illegal but he was doing it in amounts below the amounts that automatically would require reporting. In my opinion he did nothing illegal. The crimes he allegedly committed were beyond the statute of limitation and paying hush money is not illegal either.
  80. Here is an article on buzzfeed that supposedly tries to explain why some people beleive the pizzagate allegations:

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/craigsilverman/fever-swamp-election

    The author lays out a timeline of tweets, blog postings, etc.

    But the only gesture at a mention of any actual evidence (by which I mean the actual evidence that gets cited by those sympathetic to the pizzagate theory) is this line: “Noted Trump trolls on Twitter started highlighting innocuous passages in leaked emails from Clinton campaign chair John Podesta to claim they contain code words about pedophilia and human trafficking,” which is then followed by screencaps of two tweets. That’s it.

    It seems that he started off with the supposition that the pizzagate allegations are false, and took his task as explaining why people belief these falsehoods. And since he assumes that their belief must be irrational, he focuses entirely on explaining how these supposed rubes got duped. He fails entirely to consider that many have judged, on the basis of actual evidence, that some of the allegations are plausible.

    By contrast, a responsible debunker would attempt to show why the judgements, though grounded in evidence, are nonetheless not well supported by the evidence, all things considered.

  81. I think the crux of the problem is that most people find two different things equally plausible.

    1) That the people who are talking about this (pizzagate) are lunatics.

    or

    2) That Podesta and the rest actually are involved in things like this.

    Personally I think a nation that has reached this point, that it is totally believable that our leaders and elites are a bunch of monsters… well that’s a real problem.

    Another problem is that the UK article a poster above linked to is two years old. Has anyone heard anything about that since? Expect to?

    • Replies: @Eagle Eye
    For U.S. readers to gauge whether something like this COULD be happening in an advanced country, look to other countries where such incidents ARE known to have happened.

    In Belgium, the Marc DUTROUX scandal led to political consequences and appears to be ongoing.

    In the UK, the claims against Ted Heath and Cyril Smith (see picture of both in article linked below) are broadly seen as having at least some factual basis, and were reported in a number of newspapers including the Independent, the Guardian and the Daily Mail (see link below). Other names were rumored about.

    There were also years of investigations and cover-ups involving various orphanages such as KINCORA (in Northern Ireland) and HAUTE GARENNE (on the Isle of Jersey). Both were conveniently located in somewhat remote locations outside the direct reach of English law.

    There were also extensive rumors regarding several locations in London. Investigations were accompanied by the usual fortuitous deaths of potential witnesses, mysterious disappearance of documents, etc.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3189951/A-vanished-file-troubling-claims-Heath-young-musicians-s-no-smoking-gun-week-shocking-headlines-Mail-s-unearthed-fresh-allegations.html

  82. “a row of young girls in a shower with their hands behind their backs in a position that suggests bondage”

    Did you not notice the red butts of those girls, and the frightened looks? These were spankees, frightened at the approach of the spanker.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
    Yes, I noticed that the first time I saw the picture. The hands are covering their reddened bottoms. I didn't think of spanking, but of anal rape. But spanking or beating with a strap or belt is a more likely explanation.
  83. Even if it true that’s no reason to bust in there with an AR-15. Seriously bad PR for the right.

    • Replies: @Johnny Smoggins
    Come on man really?

    You don't think the whole story of an angry, right wing, White gun nut (whom no doubt further investigation will find was a Trump supporting member of the alt right) who decided to burst into the place one afternoon with an AR-15 and start shooting to "free the trapped children" or whatever the story was, doesn't sound like bullshit?

    I'm actually surprised he wasn't wearing a MAGA cap.
  84. How many members of the media political class, that are dismissing this as fake news have enjoyed “pizza” at Besta or at a similar place?

    What if criminal deviancy rather than disqualifying a person, is not instead some weird prerequisite for elite status? Don’t have to worry about rock throwers if they’re inside the same glass house.

    Blackmail seems as good an explanation as any for things like John Roberts sudden change of heart on the constitutionality of the Obama care mandate.

    • Replies: @Miro23

    What if criminal deviancy rather than disqualifying a person, is not instead some weird prerequisite for elite status? Don’t have to worry about rock throwers if they’re inside the same glass house.
     
    Could be, or more likely some sort of organized blackmail trap. Enough politicians seem to be involved in this and Epstein's island.
    , @FKA Max
    Disclaimer: This is not an endorsement of Texe Marrs or his views, but, I think, he is pretty much right on the money on this one.

    Blackmail seems as good an explanation as any for things like John Roberts sudden change of heart on the constitutionality of the Obama care mandate.
     

    John Roberts is a devout Catholic and most likely a loyal papal servant. The Vatican favors universal health care, because it benefits its flock, especially less well-off Hispanic-Americans.

    While the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops opposed the Affordable Care Act over its contraception and abortion coverage, the Catholic Health Association broke rank and consistently supported the law for making practical progress on helping working-class families and the poor. Obama even gave CHA president Sister Carol Keehan one of the 21 pens he used to sign the bill into law in 2010. [...]
    The Catholic Church in the United States supports a universal health care law that both protects the poor and the Church’s right to practice its faith without undue interference from the federal government. The President needs to convince the Catholic Church that’s exactly what Obamacare does.
     
    - http://time.com/3914116/barack-obama-catholics-health/

    Universal socialized healthcare has long been the goal of the Vatican and its Secret Societies. So when U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts single-handedly forced United States citizens to accept President Obama’s unsavory and heavily socialist “ObamaCare” legislation with his deciding (5-4) vote, the American judge, a devout Roman Catholic, won the immediate acclaim of his brothers in such secretive and infamous groups as the Knights of Malta and Opus Dei. [...]

    Immediately after casting his vote and writing the majority opinion on ObamaCare, John Roberts told the Washington, D.C. press corps that, to escape the furor and controversy that erupted, he was heading to an “impregnable fortress to escape.” Roberts choice of words was carefully coded with secret and embedded meaning.

    That impregnable fortress, as it turns out, was to the Mediterranean island of Malta, the unofficial citadel of the papacy’s Knights of Malta. It was to Malta where, after their stunning defeat in Jerusalem, the Knights and crusaders had retreated to what they referred to as their “impregnable fortress.”
     

    - http://www.texemarrs.com/072012/roberts_lauded_by_knights_of_malta.htm

    Here a read that might be of interest to Unz Review readers, in regards to this article and discussion:

    Fr. Marcial Maciel, Pedophile, Psychopath, and Legion of Christ Founder, From R.J. Neuhaus to Benedict XVI, 2nd Ed.: Richard J. Neuhaus Duped by the Legion of Christ revised and augmented - https://www.amazon.com/Marcial-Pedophile-Psychopath-Founder-Benedict/dp/1475215797

    , @The Scalpel
    "What if criminal deviancy rather than disqualifying a person, is not instead some weird prerequisite for elite status? Don’t have to worry about rock throwers if they’re inside the same glass house.Blackmail seems as good an explanation as any for things like John Roberts sudden change of heart on the constitutionality of the Obama care mandate."

    This fits Occam's Razor. I would go so far as to say that pedophilia blackmail appears to have been a method of political control since the days of the British Empire. Much like gang membership, participation is required for entrance into the inner circles of political power, then used as blackmail to enforce conformity and secrecy.

    Interestingly, there is a recent episode of "The Black Mirror," a Netflix show, that addresses this very psychology.
    , @foolisholdman
    If in fact making all the "elite" blackmailable is the object of the exercise and at the same time being blackmailable is the requisite entry ticket to the elite, then not all the people taking part in all this sinister deviancy need be actual pedophiles! Some of them could be "merely" psychopaths furthering their careers. (Not that that makes them any better.)

    If this story is what it appears to be - the tip of a very nasty and very large iceberg, then it could be the mechanism by which the "Deep State" keeps its control of the US government. That would make getting an investigation by official investigators going, very difficlt indeed.
  85. @Forty
    In that case you should be in favor of investigating "Pizzagate" since the left is having conniption fits over the God-Emperor's ascension.

    I’m in favor of investigating any cinspiracy, and at the top, this silly “right-left” thing is nothing more than a distractionary rouse.

  86. @Corvinus
    "There is a vast array of pertinent evidence, much of it circumstantial, but much of it also suggesting something of the mindset of some of the central figures."

    Pertinent evidence conjured up by the Coalition of the Right Fringe groups. Circumstantial, indeed. Thanks, Fake News Fanatic.

    "While many of these claims are wild speculation over coincidences (though by no means all of them are), at some point I think a bunch of weird coincidences involving pedophilia and kids becomes sort of damning in and of itself."

    A classic Fake News Story by the Coalition of the Fringes Right. Scores of wild speculation + weird coincidences = truth.

    Thanks!

    It is useful to note that Corvinus is himself engaging in outright misrepresentation here.

    He quotes two sentences. Here’s the first:
    “There is a vast array of pertinent evidence, much of it circumstantial, but much of it also suggesting something of the mindset of some of the central figures.”
    This comes from my comment, and I endorse it.

    Here’s the second:
    “While many of these claims are wild speculation over coincidences (though by no means all of them are), at some point I think a bunch of weird coincidences involving pedophilia and kids becomes sort of damning in and of itself.”
    Corvinus offers no attribution, leaving the clear impression that this is also from my comment. But it is not; it is from the original article.

    My own comment continues in a rather different direction, drawing a contrast between intelligent examination of the evidence and fervent, if not so competent, investigation. Clearly my comment endorses the former.

  87. The Catholic Church just called and offered to bless any pizza under attack from the media. Ted Nugent would have wanted a slice too, but times have changed. The program today is targeted derision by the mocking information distributors. Anything that gets the hypocritical, prurient apes aroused these days is fit for mind control as long as business as usual continues.

  88. @Olorin
    Something confuses me about those images.

    This dive serves beer and cocktails (hard liquor), right?

    On all the concert/gig poster photos I glanced at, they showed the cover charge...and then said "All ages."

    Is it legal in DC for children to be in bars?

    Not that I could imagine taking my children to a place where the bathroom graffiti says "shut up and f***." And where I imagine every surface has been touched so to speak by HIV+ syphilitics and the food cooked by people with hepatitis....

    It is legal for children to be in restaurants that serve liquor. Those places are pizza restaurants serve liquor.
    It is illegal for children to be in bars that serve only liquor but not food.

  89. @Wizard of Oz
    I've just glanced at this but picked up the reference to removal of comments while retaining the responses to them which criticise the former as racist etc.

    Interesting to speculate how this came about. It does suggeest, does it not, that a would be whistleblower subverted attempts at cover up???

    No idea, Wiz, and I won’t speculate.

    My provisional reaction was that readers were trying to get input into the news-agenda-setting process in the main way available to them (commenting, supplying a “tip”), and having their comments removed because they challenged the multicultural/Islaminvasion Narrative.

    I saw this enough times that it made an impression on me–things disappearing from one day/week to the next. Maybe confirmation bias, but I didn’t have a bias in that direction to begin with at the time. I didn’t even know about Ann Cryer at the time.

    I figured that the retention of the “Shut up you racist” comments was more in line with what we see in “higher ed” in the US, where the “diversity response teams” on campus allege a hate crime but won’t tell you what it was (coz, of course, that would TRIGGER people–far more important than a factual relating of events). But they’re happy to scream “racist racist racist.” To underscore the narrative of Racists Are Bad And They Walk Among Us.

  90. @Avery
    { the punishment of Dennis Hastert on relatively obscure charge }

    What 'relatively obscure charge'?

    “What ‘relatively obscure charge’?” – Making payments in a manner hiding the detection of payments. Payments were not illegal but he was doing it in amounts below the amounts that automatically would require reporting. In my opinion he did nothing illegal. The crimes he allegedly committed were beyond the statute of limitation and paying hush money is not illegal either.

    • Replies: @Avery
    I kinda thought that's what you were referring to, but wanted to make sure.

    His real crime was something else.

    He was a high school coach years ago and was raping underage boys in his charge. The cash he was withdrawing was for payments to one of the boys to keep him quiet. If memory serves, another one of his victims had committed suicide (not sure though). But the one Hastert was paying off wanted to burn him.

    In addition, Sibel Edwards, when she was working for the FBI and translating foreign language intercepts, picked up some conversations by Turkish officials, who were bribing Hastert, and claimed they "owned him". He reportedly got $500K, but not sure for what. FBI had courts put a gag order on Sibel, so she could not reveal any more details. The story was buried: probably because too many high ranking swine were involved.

    Hastert pleaded guilty to a Mickey Mouse charge so that there would no public child-rape trial, where the public might learn all the lurid details of what the filthy swine did to those underage boys.

    Hastert got away with destroying the lives of many boys.
    Hopefully he will be savagely beaten and crippled in prison - but not killed - so he can suffer for years.

  91. @Sandy Berger's Socks
    How many members of the media political class, that are dismissing this as fake news have enjoyed "pizza" at Besta or at a similar place?

    What if criminal deviancy rather than disqualifying a person, is not instead some weird prerequisite for elite status? Don't have to worry about rock throwers if they're inside the same glass house.

    Blackmail seems as good an explanation as any for things like John Roberts sudden change of heart on the constitutionality of the Obama care mandate.

    What if criminal deviancy rather than disqualifying a person, is not instead some weird prerequisite for elite status? Don’t have to worry about rock throwers if they’re inside the same glass house.

    Could be, or more likely some sort of organized blackmail trap. Enough politicians seem to be involved in this and Epstein’s island.

    • Replies: @Blado
    The idea of on-camera child rape as a prerequisite of entry into organizations/guarantee of cooperation is a pretty old one. It's no doubt been done.
  92. @RadicalCenter
    If it's my children to whom some perverted, undeveloped "man" is "sexting", the answer is simply "too young" and "young enough for the guy to die."

    How would you react if someone sent sexual photos or propositions to your 13-year-old child? Specifically how, and why.

    “3-year-old child” – it is redundant to say child in this case. You you are using overly dramatic language.

    “young enough for the guy to die.” – So you would kill people for sexting to minors?

    “How would you react if someone sent sexual photos or propositions to your 13-year-old child?” I would punish my child first and cut it of internet.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    And you'd do nothing to the adult perpetrator at all? Contact him? Report him to the police? Come on, I doubt you are that lazy or naïve a parent.

    As for sexting, what do you think an adult wants, hopes, and plans to do to a 13- / 14-year-old to whom he's sending sexual photos, videos, or messages? Is he planning a nice game of chess?

    And yes, severe physical retribution is in order if the adult knows he is communicating with someone that age. The law should allow it. Or should we "not be extreme" and let him move on to someone's else child and someone else's child until he gets away with what he's after?

    , @Stonehands
    You have impaired judgement. It's people like you who allow evil to fester.
    , @NoseytheDuke
    It's the age difference and the power equation that matters. If a fifteen year old is sexting a thirteen year old it's quite different than a grown man like Anthony Wiener. I couldn't blame any father who administered a sound beating to an adult creep who was sexting a minor. What kind of a society doesn't protect children?
  93. This is a very good summary; thank you for publishing it.

    The speed with which the old media have declared the entire thing false, far sooner than they possibly could have explored all the latest information and come to that conclusion, is astonishing. In other cases of conspiracy theories they think are false, they are willing to stand back and ridicule the theorists. Obama Birthers, 9/11 Truthers, Boston Bombing hoax, Sandy Hook…. all certainly called false and ridiculed, but that’s all. I don’t think I’ve ever seen them try to squelch an entire line of discussion from the start like this before, even threatening lawsuits and prosecution.

  94. There is one thing that should be easy to answer very quickly. Where is Julian Assange? It was Wikileaks that broke this story. I have been looking for “proof of life” since Julian Assange was disappeared from the internet.

    Come on. This should be an easy one. I want proof of life. I want to see an interview with Assange saying that all is well and good

    Where is Julian?

  95. There may be something to pizzagate but I’m very skeptical of accusations of widespread institutional pedophilia. I initially fell for the “Satanic panic” of the 1980s; I learned my lesson.
    I see that this case relies a lot on cryptic symbols. Reminds me of the people who see swastikas and white supremacy runes wherever they look and try to make a case for a vast neo-Nazi underground. But the author states that 470,000 children “disappear” each year in the US alone. Really? The link goes to “reported missing” which is a whole different thing. I once reported one of my kids missing; he turned up shortly afterwards at a friend’s house. He hadn’t even run away, just overstayed and not informed us where he was. That sort of thing happens all the time, but genuine disappearances? I don’t know of a single case and I know plenty of people with kids. In some third world country in a war, tens of thousands of missing kids might be believable, but even in most such countries (Syria for example) 470,000 disappearances per year would be a stretch.

  96. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Anon
    I'm not dismissing anything here, but as for

    That’s why when it got publicised, Besta’s management immediately deleted the old one and converted to a new, BLogo-free symbol on all their website and printed materials.
     
    if you found out your business logo (a triangular Greek key pattern) was used as a signaling device by pedophiles, wouldn't you change it? I, like, probably, most readers, had certainly never heard of this symbol until today.

    By the way, Besta Pizza is the worst pizzeria name I've heard in a long time. The owners evidently have horrible taste or are more than a little clueless.

    Just playing advocatus diaboli, here.

    “Besta” probably comes from the last name “Podesta”…who I’ve read one of the brothers had part ownership in the business at some point. Just a thought, although, I agree, it’s not the catchiest name. Lol!

  97. @Pontius
    One of the earliest "big" abuse cases at a Catholic orphanage in Canada was purposely kept under wraps because the chief of police and the clergymen involved had all gone through school together. Beat cops and detectives knew the score but the investigations went nowhere. In court, the chief claimed he couldn't remember salient details about the case since he had memory loss due to heart surgery.

    Seems apropos. There was a time when accusing Catholic Priests of being pedos sounded ludicrous.

    Now it’s a standing joke.

    • Replies: @Ace
    That is one diseased mind in that "comedian."
  98. In the U.K., all the abuse took place by people in power. Catholic clergy over choirboys. Celebs over their fans. Pakistanis targeted girls from broken homes. The wealthy and ‘noble’ preyed on the lesser born.

    The worst though are the politicians, who have maximum power. I’m not sure I believe the pizzagate thing – the evidence is not conclusive (show me a victim or witness). But I certainly believe it is possible.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete

    But I certainly believe it is possible.
     
    It's not only possible, but plausible.

    Any decent study of history should teach nearly anyone that expecting the worst from those in positions of power will get one closer to the truth than not. There is little doubt, I bet, that "Pizzagate" is merely the tip of the iceberg.
  99. The reliably excellent John Helmer provides an oblique reference to Pizzagate in the following linked piece about Propornot and its marvellous 200 Putin Stoogesites:

    http://johnhelmer.net/?p=16851

  100. @utu
    "What ‘relatively obscure charge’?" - Making payments in a manner hiding the detection of payments. Payments were not illegal but he was doing it in amounts below the amounts that automatically would require reporting. In my opinion he did nothing illegal. The crimes he allegedly committed were beyond the statute of limitation and paying hush money is not illegal either.

    I kinda thought that’s what you were referring to, but wanted to make sure.

    His real crime was something else.

    He was a high school coach years ago and was raping underage boys in his charge. The cash he was withdrawing was for payments to one of the boys to keep him quiet. If memory serves, another one of his victims had committed suicide (not sure though). But the one Hastert was paying off wanted to burn him.

    In addition, Sibel Edwards, when she was working for the FBI and translating foreign language intercepts, picked up some conversations by Turkish officials, who were bribing Hastert, and claimed they “owned him”. He reportedly got $500K, but not sure for what. FBI had courts put a gag order on Sibel, so she could not reveal any more details. The story was buried: probably because too many high ranking swine were involved.

    Hastert pleaded guilty to a Mickey Mouse charge so that there would no public child-rape trial, where the public might learn all the lurid details of what the filthy swine did to those underage boys.

    Hastert got away with destroying the lives of many boys.
    Hopefully he will be savagely beaten and crippled in prison – but not killed – so he can suffer for years.

    • Replies: @utu
    "Hastert pleaded guilty to a Mickey Mouse charge so that there would no public child-rape trial," - I do not think so. It was beyond the statute of limitation. Yes, it was "Mickey Mouse charge." If he fought it he could win imo, however there would be testimonies of the boys.

    Why did he agree to go with the impeachment of Clinton? Because he was (a) stupid or (b) he was black mailed to do it? Newt Gingrich was smarter.
    , @pepperinmono
    If you ponder it abstractly for a few minutes, it is utterly astounding that such a man could become Speaker of the House. WTF?
  101. @utu
    "3-year-old child" - it is redundant to say child in this case. You you are using overly dramatic language.

    “young enough for the guy to die.” - So you would kill people for sexting to minors?

    "How would you react if someone sent sexual photos or propositions to your 13-year-old child?" I would punish my child first and cut it of internet.

    And you’d do nothing to the adult perpetrator at all? Contact him? Report him to the police? Come on, I doubt you are that lazy or naïve a parent.

    As for sexting, what do you think an adult wants, hopes, and plans to do to a 13- / 14-year-old to whom he’s sending sexual photos, videos, or messages? Is he planning a nice game of chess?

    And yes, severe physical retribution is in order if the adult knows he is communicating with someone that age. The law should allow it. Or should we “not be extreme” and let him move on to someone’s else child and someone else’s child until he gets away with what he’s after?

  102. @Avery
    I kinda thought that's what you were referring to, but wanted to make sure.

    His real crime was something else.

    He was a high school coach years ago and was raping underage boys in his charge. The cash he was withdrawing was for payments to one of the boys to keep him quiet. If memory serves, another one of his victims had committed suicide (not sure though). But the one Hastert was paying off wanted to burn him.

    In addition, Sibel Edwards, when she was working for the FBI and translating foreign language intercepts, picked up some conversations by Turkish officials, who were bribing Hastert, and claimed they "owned him". He reportedly got $500K, but not sure for what. FBI had courts put a gag order on Sibel, so she could not reveal any more details. The story was buried: probably because too many high ranking swine were involved.

    Hastert pleaded guilty to a Mickey Mouse charge so that there would no public child-rape trial, where the public might learn all the lurid details of what the filthy swine did to those underage boys.

    Hastert got away with destroying the lives of many boys.
    Hopefully he will be savagely beaten and crippled in prison - but not killed - so he can suffer for years.

    “Hastert pleaded guilty to a Mickey Mouse charge so that there would no public child-rape trial,” – I do not think so. It was beyond the statute of limitation. Yes, it was “Mickey Mouse charge.” If he fought it he could win imo, however there would be testimonies of the boys.

    Why did he agree to go with the impeachment of Clinton? Because he was (a) stupid or (b) he was black mailed to do it? Newt Gingrich was smarter.

  103. @RadicalCenter
    And you'd do nothing to the adult perpetrator at all? Contact him? Report him to the police? Come on, I doubt you are that lazy or naïve a parent.

    As for sexting, what do you think an adult wants, hopes, and plans to do to a 13- / 14-year-old to whom he's sending sexual photos, videos, or messages? Is he planning a nice game of chess?

    And yes, severe physical retribution is in order if the adult knows he is communicating with someone that age. The law should allow it. Or should we "not be extreme" and let him move on to someone's else child and someone else's child until he gets away with what he's after?

    Report him to the police.

    • Replies: @Truth
    Dude, you are the descendent of VIKINGS...TEUTONIC KNIGHTS...WESTERN COWBOYS...NEANDERTHALS...ROMAN CENTURIONS!

    And you're going to "report it to the police?"

    You folks are doomed.
  104. @Jason Liu
    Even if it true that's no reason to bust in there with an AR-15. Seriously bad PR for the right.

    Come on man really?

    You don’t think the whole story of an angry, right wing, White gun nut (whom no doubt further investigation will find was a Trump supporting member of the alt right) who decided to burst into the place one afternoon with an AR-15 and start shooting to “free the trapped children” or whatever the story was, doesn’t sound like bullshit?

    I’m actually surprised he wasn’t wearing a MAGA cap.

  105. Like a lot of people I have gone from completely ignoring this story, thinking it was Alex Jones type fantasy to starting to wonder if there might not be some truth to it after all. So far I haven’t seen any definitive evidence that kids are actually being molested, or worse. And because the accusations are so damning I would want to be very cautious about casually tossing them around.

    That being said, a lot of the stuff that’s surfaced; the artwork, the cryptic messages, Spirit cooking, the odd choices of entertainment for a family friendly pizza restaurant and the Instagram pictures are just flat out creepy.

    Even with a presumption of innocence I wouldn’t allow anyone under the age of 18 anywhere near the Podesta brothers, Alefantis and everyone else involved without adult supervision.

    I’m glad Unz has decided to publish this. I’m interested to see if anything more will come of it. It certainly warrants further investigation.

    • Replies: @pepperinmono
    Podesta is a creepy fuck period.
    How did such a dweeb get to be such a big person in our national conversation?
    He is an obvious hack , but not a particular clever one. He just comes off so "are you fucking kidding me?". Where do they get these dudes? James Carville. Paul Begala. Bill Burton. Robby Mook. Even right has George Will, Buckley. Strange unnormal people.
  106. @Buzz Mohawk

    Speaking of “artists,” I always thought the sicko, Salvador Dali was particularly deranged…!
     
    He wasn't deranged, just crassly commercial and lowbrow. He played up his gimmick of surrealist craziness to great profit.

    I remember a pre-Starbucks coffee shop I frequented in my old, bohemian college town. They had a signed, numbered Dali print hanging behind the toilet in the pisser. It was an interesting picture, a silkscreen print, as I recall. The signature was real.

    This was their hipster way of insulting Dali. Customers could relieve themselves while staring at one of Salvatore's many thousands of products. He sold them to thousands of rubes who otherwise wouldn't buy art.

    Art is always the province of the rich and privileged. It is a commercial enterprise. Even the "great" artists you might have learned about got their reputation by becoming popular with the elite. Today's art is best ignored.

    Today’s art is best ignored.

    Agreed. In fact, most of what’s promoted as “intellectual” or “cool” or “hip” is outright useless if not dangerous garbage. And the producers of it are no doubt laughing with both glee and contempt all the way to the bank.

    Maybe Dali wasn’t deranged, but he was enough of a sick, violent pervert to make it hard to tell. I’m basing my opinion on Orwell’s assessment of the goof, so it’s possible he’s wrong.

    Here are some quotes from Orwell’s essay about the sewagemeister.

    Suddenly one of my father’s office clerks appeared in the drawing-room doorway and announced that the comet could be seen from the terrace… While crossing the hall I caught sight of my little three-year-old sister crawling unobtrusively through a doorway. I stopped, hesitated a second, then gave her a terrible kick in the head as though it had been a ball, and continued running, carried away with a ‘delirious joy’ induced by this savage act. But my father, who was behind me, caught me and led me down in to his office, where I remained as a punishment till dinner-time.

    A year earlier than this Dali had ‘suddenly, as most of my ideas occur,’ flung another little boy off a suspension bridge. Several other incidents of the same kind are recorded, including (this was when he was twenty-nine years old) knocking down and trampling on a girl ‘until they had to tear her, bleeding, out of my reach.’

    When he first meets his future wife, Gala, he is greatly tempted to push her off a precipice. He is aware that there is something that she wants him to do to her, and after their first kiss the confession is made:

    -George Orwell, Benefit Of Clergy: Some Notes On Salvador Dali, 1944

    http://www.telelib.com/authors/O/OrwellGeorge/essay/CriticalEssays/salvadordali.html

    • Replies: @anon
    Orwell is not to be trusted with Catholics or people he views as Fascists. Dali was certainly weird, and some of his art is certainly perverse, but I suspect fabulation here (on Dali's part, not Orwell's). Had he actually thrown a boy off a bridge or assaulted a girl (both in public), we would not need to wait for his autobiography to find out.

    Dali was undoubtedly perverse, but more than anything a showman, and a very crass one.

    I admit a liking for all of Magritte and most of Dali. This may be clouding my judgment.
  107. @Linh Dinh
    Valuable article.

    In the picture of a man holding a small child, the bead necklace alludes to semen, and Besta is also one vowel short of Bestia, "Beast."

    Valuable comment!

    Holy…bleep! You ARE a flippin genius! Thanks for pointing that out!!!

    Man, there’s some sick sh!t out there.

  108. Where I find that this whole thing breaks down is that the original claim was that pizza was supposed to be code for child pornography. No one originally suggested that there was any connection to actual pizza. Alefantis was dragged in only when someone decided that any reference to pizza in the e-mails, even something as normal and unremarkable as a mention of a pizza party by an actual pizza place owner, must refer to child porn. I am sure that the true believers have done some mental gymnastics/retconning and now say, “They used pizza as a code precisely because the ringleader was an actual pizzeria owner!” But that was not the original claim.

    P.S. I have now finally seen the famous “girl with her hands taped to a table.” I am very underwhelmed. You do realize the kinds of silly stunts and games that kids like to do, right? The ping pong player behind her indicates that this was all in public.

    P.P.S. Is there any evidence that this “pedophile symbols” document is really from the FBI? Did anyone ever hear of these alleged symbols before last month?

    • Replies: @AB Necessity
    "pizza" has been used on 4Chan for many, many years as a reference to child pornography.

    Child Pornography -> CP -> Cheese Pizza

    , @Blado
    Well it did come from Wikileaks of some FBI documents.
    , @Seamus Padraig

    P.P.S. Is there any evidence that this “pedophile symbols” document is really from the FBI? Did anyone ever hear of these alleged symbols before last month?
     
    Well, the image of the FBI document above is marked "unclassified", so I suppose you could look it up at the FBI's website.
    , @CalDre
    The document is apparently not on the FBI"s website, but has been released by Wikileaks as authentic.
    , @Jus' Sayin'...
    Whether the FBI document is genuine or not, it was all over the internet 7 years ago. Slate or Salon even did an on-line essay on it. Some of these symbols have been identified as codes for pedophilia for a long time now.

    That nine years later these symbols spontaneously appear all over the logos, ads, and internal decoration of pizzerias forming a geographical cluster in DC is a striking coincidence; made more poignant because some of the more prominent clients of these pizzerias have been dogged by rumors of sado-sexual activities involving children for many years.

    It's also striking how quickly all the pedophile cant, symbols and imagery was removed from all these locations immediately after the pizzagate scandal began getting traction, and how shortly after this the MSM launched a concerted effort to label the story as a loony-toon conspiracy theory, while at the same time many internet sites began purging their archives of related material and denying access to those who wished to explore the scandal further.
  109. @DanC
    Rotate the old logo for Besta Pizza 180 degrees. It is the pedophile BLogo symbol.

    That's why when it got publicised, Besta's management immediately deleted the old one and converted to a new, BLogo-free symbol on all their website and printed materials.

    What is interesting to note in mainstream media "debunkings" of PizzaGate is that they focus on the doubtful evidence, things that could be "interpreted either way" and they leave out the glaringly obvious pedophilia links, like the Besta Pizza logo.

    Just look at all the "debunking articles." Do any of them mention the old Besta logo? I haven't seen any.

    It seems to me this is the way to wean the public off the mainstream media. Hammer on the fact that the MSM insists on leaving out the clear, obvious evidence and tries to imply that everything is doubtful and open to interpretation. Then people will start to associate them with coverup and BS. The MSM can't recover from that.

    Actually the logo issue is a prominent part of this Washington Post article (and a tweet by the fairly well-known Dave Weigel highlighted that part in particular):

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/were-going-to-put-a-bullet-in-your-head-pizzagate-threats-terrorize-dc-shop-owners/2016/12/05/39469a82-bb2e-11e6-94ac-3d324840106c_story.html?utm_term=.af2e34c09164

    • Replies: @The Scalpel
    The "explanation" was that the logo was a piece of pizza. Sounds like a convenient excuse. It looks a helluva lot like the pedo logo and not like a pizza slice at all.
  110. @Linh Dinh
    Valuable article.

    In the picture of a man holding a small child, the bead necklace alludes to semen, and Besta is also one vowel short of Bestia, "Beast."

    “the bead necklace alludes to semen,”

    Uhhh…. what?

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    Never heard of a pearl necklace? You've led a sheltered life it seems.
  111. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @jacques sheete

    Today’s art is best ignored.
     
    Agreed. In fact, most of what's promoted as "intellectual" or "cool" or "hip" is outright useless if not dangerous garbage. And the producers of it are no doubt laughing with both glee and contempt all the way to the bank.

    Maybe Dali wasn't deranged, but he was enough of a sick, violent pervert to make it hard to tell. I'm basing my opinion on Orwell's assessment of the goof, so it's possible he's wrong.

    Here are some quotes from Orwell's essay about the sewagemeister.

    Suddenly one of my father’s office clerks appeared in the drawing-room doorway and announced that the comet could be seen from the terrace… While crossing the hall I caught sight of my little three-year-old sister crawling unobtrusively through a doorway. I stopped, hesitated a second, then gave her a terrible kick in the head as though it had been a ball, and continued running, carried away with a ‘delirious joy’ induced by this savage act. But my father, who was behind me, caught me and led me down in to his office, where I remained as a punishment till dinner-time.

    A year earlier than this Dali had ‘suddenly, as most of my ideas occur,’ flung another little boy off a suspension bridge. Several other incidents of the same kind are recorded, including (this was when he was twenty-nine years old) knocking down and trampling on a girl ‘until they had to tear her, bleeding, out of my reach.’

    When he first meets his future wife, Gala, he is greatly tempted to push her off a precipice. He is aware that there is something that she wants him to do to her, and after their first kiss the confession is made:

    -George Orwell, Benefit Of Clergy: Some Notes On Salvador Dali, 1944
    http://www.telelib.com/authors/O/OrwellGeorge/essay/CriticalEssays/salvadordali.html
     

    Orwell is not to be trusted with Catholics or people he views as Fascists. Dali was certainly weird, and some of his art is certainly perverse, but I suspect fabulation here (on Dali’s part, not Orwell’s). Had he actually thrown a boy off a bridge or assaulted a girl (both in public), we would not need to wait for his autobiography to find out.

    Dali was undoubtedly perverse, but more than anything a showman, and a very crass one.

    I admit a liking for all of Magritte and most of Dali. This may be clouding my judgment.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete

    but I suspect fabulation here (on Dali’s part, not Orwell’s)
     
    Yeah, I thought the same thing, but then it occurred to me that a person would have to be pretty perverted to promote such stories of himself.
  112. Strange that the media which is usually so adept at turning even the tiniest of clues into evidence of racism, sexism, homophobia, proof of white privilege, micro-aggressions, etc. doesn’t see any thing suspicious about this.

  113. @Avery
    I kinda thought that's what you were referring to, but wanted to make sure.

    His real crime was something else.

    He was a high school coach years ago and was raping underage boys in his charge. The cash he was withdrawing was for payments to one of the boys to keep him quiet. If memory serves, another one of his victims had committed suicide (not sure though). But the one Hastert was paying off wanted to burn him.

    In addition, Sibel Edwards, when she was working for the FBI and translating foreign language intercepts, picked up some conversations by Turkish officials, who were bribing Hastert, and claimed they "owned him". He reportedly got $500K, but not sure for what. FBI had courts put a gag order on Sibel, so she could not reveal any more details. The story was buried: probably because too many high ranking swine were involved.

    Hastert pleaded guilty to a Mickey Mouse charge so that there would no public child-rape trial, where the public might learn all the lurid details of what the filthy swine did to those underage boys.

    Hastert got away with destroying the lives of many boys.
    Hopefully he will be savagely beaten and crippled in prison - but not killed - so he can suffer for years.

    If you ponder it abstractly for a few minutes, it is utterly astounding that such a man could become Speaker of the House. WTF?

    • Replies: @The Millennial Falcon
    The guy was a walking cesspool. That he was the UniParty figurehead for almost a decade indicates the extent of the corruption enveloping DC.
  114. @No_0ne
    You're not aware of the existence of the Fed, and similar institutions in other countries? That's odd.

    I probably know a good deal more about central banks than most of those who obsess about them on UR. Did you not notice the suggestion of madness in his last par? He’s probably a waste of time to converse with so I thought I might just try winkling out some sane meaning from him in the shortest way to start with.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    As the saying goes, the mountain is clearer from the plain than it is to the climber.
  115. @Johnny Smoggins
    Like a lot of people I have gone from completely ignoring this story, thinking it was Alex Jones type fantasy to starting to wonder if there might not be some truth to it after all. So far I haven't seen any definitive evidence that kids are actually being molested, or worse. And because the accusations are so damning I would want to be very cautious about casually tossing them around.

    That being said, a lot of the stuff that's surfaced; the artwork, the cryptic messages, Spirit cooking, the odd choices of entertainment for a family friendly pizza restaurant and the Instagram pictures are just flat out creepy.

    Even with a presumption of innocence I wouldn't allow anyone under the age of 18 anywhere near the Podesta brothers, Alefantis and everyone else involved without adult supervision.

    I'm glad Unz has decided to publish this. I'm interested to see if anything more will come of it. It certainly warrants further investigation.

    Podesta is a creepy fuck period.
    How did such a dweeb get to be such a big person in our national conversation?
    He is an obvious hack , but not a particular clever one. He just comes off so “are you fucking kidding me?”. Where do they get these dudes? James Carville. Paul Begala. Bill Burton. Robby Mook. Even right has George Will, Buckley. Strange unnormal people.

  116. @for-the-record
    See, for example,

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-24513267

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/10377714/Madeleine-McCann-E-fit-suspect-was-carrying-child-police-reveal.html

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Efit_images_of_Madeleine_McCann_suspect.jpg

    http://www.thelastamericanvagabond.com/top-news/podesta-brothers-revealed/

    • Replies: @Jus' Sayin'...
    All "the Podesta brothers were in Portugal on 3 May 2007" stories ultimately trace back to a post by one Victurus Libertas who claims to have been given this information by an anonymous FBI informant. It's nonsense like this that the MSM and others use to discredit what I now believe is a major scandal involving unspeakably evil crimes. Just post verifiable info with solid sources or at least admit you are dealing in unconfirmed rumors or speculation. You hurt the cause by doing otherwise.
  117. I confess I don’t get it. I can understand pizzagate as a brutal and nasty last minute campaign tactic, but the election is over, drop it. A mighty tissue of “coincidences” woven together in a manner that would make Glenn Beck envious. I guess I need to fashion a tin foil hat and then re-read the article. I think it just discredits the source more than the target.

    If someone is actually raping children, then where are the children? The kids related to the socialite that she is bringing to a pool party? Come on, that is what plebes are for. How are the children procured? Where do they live? There is necessarily logistics to this kind of activity, and zero evidence of logistics, just some weird emails and weird art. Its like saying someone is a coke head because they had a runny nose. tweet at early hours in the morning, and behave very alpha.

    • Replies: @Shimshon
    @Tulip,

    First, the emails are not just weird. Second, regarding this:

    "There is necessarily logistics to this kind of activity, and zero evidence of logistics..."

    Actually, there is.

    Jeffrey Epstein, the Lolita Express, and his pedophile island. This was obviously covered up.

    The Pizzagaters have shed a tiny bit of light on Laura Silsby. Look her up.
  118. @FKA Max

    Furthermore, Tony Podesta’s favorite artist is Biljana Djurdjevic, whose art heavily features images of children in BDSM-esque positions in large showers.
     
    Psychopathy in the Pedophile (From Psychopathy: Antisocial, Criminal, and Violent Behavior, P 304-320, 1998, Theodore Millon, Erik Simonsen, et al, eds.--See NCJ-179236)

    This paper argues that pedophilia may represent a special case or subcase of psychopathy and that the main aims of both the psychopath and the pedophile are to dominate, to use, and to subjugate another person in service of the grandiose self. [...] It notes that the major differences between psychopaths and pedophiles are that the object of the predation for the pedophile is a child and that the overt behavioral manifestation of the pathology is sexual.
     
    - https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/publications/Abstract.aspx?id=179240

    So the gang in Rotherham was molesting a thousand girls in a town of 100k.

    I wonder what percentage of child bearing age females ythat is in that town?

  119. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    Turn a blind eye to Pakistani pimps and Zionist white slavers… but hunt down Haven Monahan.

  120. @No_0ne
    Strangely enough, someone with exactly the same name as the individual with a gun arrested at Comet Ping Pong, Edgar Maddison Welch (extra "d" and all), has a listing on IMDB. He's an actor:

    https://archive.is/VgKcj

    Not only is he an actor, he played “the gunman” in a 2005 short called “Something About Pizza.” Seriously.

  121. @Aedon Cassiel
    Yes, I wanted to showcase that there is a wide range in how strongly suggestive the different bits of claimed evidence are. However, the fact that adult women and wives are involved establishes little, because it is a well known phenomena that in most of these high–profile cases, the wives are aware and either say nothing, or else actively cover for their pedophile husbands.

    In any case, I think the weaker bits of evidence in this case become stronger in the light of other stronger pieces of evidence. As I wrote in the comment section over at Counter–Currents,

    “…if you search “Podesta Madeline McCann”, there are a number of coincidences suggesting the possibility the brothers could have had a role in her disappearance. The key point is that Clement Freud, the convicted pedophile who I mentioned in the essay the brothers remained close friends with, has a mansion less than half a mile away from where the young girl disappeared in Portugal. We know that the Podesta brothers traveled there on occassion, there’s reason to think they may have been there during the month she disappeared, and the police sketches look disturbingly identical to both John and Tony Podesta—see here for a side by side comparison. See also: “Emails between ‘paedophile’ Clement Freud and Madeleine McCann’s parents to be probed for child sex abuse inquiry.”

    … Now, when you add things like a bedroom lined with photos of “documentary-style pictures of naked teenagers” to something like the emails listing childrens’ ages and calling getting in a pool with them “further entertainment,” it starts feeling less innocent. I could picture a scenario in which I list my childrens’ ages and innocently refer to them as “further entertainment” for guests. But if I knew those guests were people who keep photos of naked children in their bedroom and were close friends with high–profile pedophiles and traveled around to visit them, I might be just a little bit more on guard about the language I was using and whether I was actively inviting my children to jump in pools with them.”

    Aedon: I agree that the Podestas and Comet Ping Pong are creep. However, regarding the missing child in Portugal, those sketches were different views of the same guy. An number of people with children were seen that night. A problem was that the Portguese authorities initially suspected the parents. There are conspiracy blogs about her parents on Facebook. The fact that Freud had a house there is another really creep fact though.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Yes it seemed a bit odd that they eere recorded as for the same guy. But that could be explained by them simply not appearing together but perhaps both being in the same coloured shorts and shirts...
    , @Aaron B.
    Investigators assumed the two sketches were of the same man, because each witness only saw one man, and they're not that different by the standard of police sketches. Brothers often look enough alike that rough sketches of them could be mistaken for each other; but really, look at those and tell us they're not dead ringers for the Podesta brothers.

    They match so well I was skeptical, so I tracked the originals down to an old CBS News article, to make sure they weren't created last month by someone doing Photoshop tricks on ordinary photos of the two men. They're the real thing.
  122. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    In the 70s, I hear that NY pizzerias were fronts for narcotics dealers.

    Are they now used by pedo-dealers?

    I love pizza, but this issue is making me feel a bit icky about it.

  123. @Avalanche
    "a row of young girls in a shower with their hands behind their backs in a position that suggests bondage"

    Did you not notice the red butts of those girls, and the frightened looks? These were spankees, frightened at the approach of the spanker.

    Yes, I noticed that the first time I saw the picture. The hands are covering their reddened bottoms. I didn’t think of spanking, but of anal rape. But spanking or beating with a strap or belt is a more likely explanation.

  124. @utu
    "3-year-old child" - it is redundant to say child in this case. You you are using overly dramatic language.

    “young enough for the guy to die.” - So you would kill people for sexting to minors?

    "How would you react if someone sent sexual photos or propositions to your 13-year-old child?" I would punish my child first and cut it of internet.

    You have impaired judgement. It’s people like you who allow evil to fester.

  125. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Anonymous
    Political correctness was definitely one of the, if not the, primary reasons for the Rotherham scandal coverup. But another major factor was the entrenched culture of pedophilia in British society and culture. Every aspect of British society seems to have ties to pedophilia, from Parliament, to the elites, the City of London, the government, public schools, Oxbridge, the universities, all the way down to Paki immigrant communities and even British soccer. The most recent revelation is that British soccer has been infested with pedophilia for decades, and it's been covered up for decades. This culture of pedophilia and covering up for it in British society and culture helped facilitate Rotherham and the coverup:

    "Pedophilia Scandal Sends Shock Waves Through U.K. Soccer"

    http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/12/02/504164498/pedophilia-scandal-sends-shock-waves-through-u-k-soccer

    In mid-November, a former professional soccer player told a British newspaper that as a child, he had been sexually abused for years by a well-respected youth coach. The player said he knew other players had experienced the same thing — and that a culture of silence kept the abusers out of the spotlight.

    But he wasn't keeping the secret anymore.

    "I want to get it out and give other people an opportunity to do the same," Andy Woodward told The Guardian. "I want to give people strength. ... I'm convinced there is an awful lot more to come out."

    His interview unleashed a flood.

    In the weeks since, a half-dozen other former players have come forward in the media, alleging years of abuse by multiple coaches and scouts in the U.K. More than 20 former pros have alleged abuse to the Professional Footballers' Association. Some 350 people have reported abuse at youth soccer clubs to police, according to The Associated Press.
     

    “Every aspect of British society seems to have ties to pedophilia, from Parliament, to the elites, the City of London, the government, public schools, Oxbridge, the universities, all the way down to Paki immigrant communities and even British soccer.”

    Why do pedos gain such power? Same reason why homos do? Since many of them don’t have families and since they resent the Normal World(from which they must hide their deviance or sickness), do they have extra time/energy for gaining power? Are they fueled by resentment toward Normal Society? It seems like homos had a kind of revenge streak, and it all came out with New Normal. Homos really want to rub our faces in their feces. They want to force us to accept the New Normal or be totally destroyed. They want to turn us into their bitches. They are into Bitch-Hunting.

    Working in the shadows, homos and pedos seemed to gained considerable power. And since they are associated with Vice Industry, they have the dirt on everyone else and can blackmail them. Bill Clinton prolly never had sex with a minor, but surely homos and pedos have a lot of dirt on him about his many affairs and orgies. And since they have many connections, they serve as essential middlemen for those who seek power.

    Also, there is a code of silence among the powerful. They watch out for one another. And homos and pedos are both pushy and gushy. They are very demanding but also accommodating and supportive of the powerful and ambitious. They go all out to serve the powerful and those on the up-and-up, but they also demand a cut of the pie.

    The ambitious care most about power and privilege than about right and wrong. If their power depends on a coterie of people committed to them 24/7, they will look the other way even when they know something is up. Also, there is the human factor. People who work together closely develop an emotional bond. It’s team politics, us vs them. And loyalty must be favored.
    Since homos and pedos have more time on their hands and more energy(fueled by resentment), they might be more available to the powerful or those who seek power.

    Hollywood made the media the hero in the movie SPOTLIGHT. But the media seem eager to bury this as fast as possible.

    Why did it take so long for the Hastert and Sandusky cases to come to light?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Sandusky

    How did they get away with that stuff forever?

    Is it a good idea to allow homos into Boy Scouts?

    Homos seem to be closely allied with pedos, and the trajectory of our culture is to normalize pedophilia by sexualizing young girls and boys. If young ones are sexualized, it means they can be objects of sexual desire. And then what?

    And the scientific community is arguing pedophilia should be treated as a condition than a crime. This may be legit as long as pedos didn’t act on their impulses. But if they did, how can it not be a crime?
    Rape is ‘natural’ too given that sexual feelings are natural. But we can’t treat rape itself as a condition and not a crime.

  126. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @The Millennial Falcon
    It's hard to believe but there are extremely disturbing examples of mothers encouraging and even participating in the sexual abuse of their children. To cite one high-profile example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marion_Zimmer_Bradley#Child_sex_abuse_allegations

    It's best not to underestimate human capacity for evil. I heartily echo the author's urging to take this seriously.

    I think the girl abused by Roman Polanski was offered up by her mother.

    Given Hollywood and Jewish community’s support of Polanski, something is very fishy.

    And look at Woltz.

    And look at this freaky stuff:

    • Replies: @Anon
    Sorry, I don't get the point of the "Woltz" scenes in The Godfather.
    What do these scenes show?
  127. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @sebastian puettmann
    I guess the only thing worse than this pedophile ring being true would be if this was some kind of limited hang out to make Americans lose all faith in their leadership and culture.

    Be aware that the Central Banksters want world government and for it to emerge the complete destruction of national governments is needed.

    Yeah, even if nothing happened, the whole culture around those clubs and pizzerias is trashy, vapid, and disgusting.

    So, the Best and Brightest indulge in debased Warholisms, Mapplethorpeisms, and Teletubbisms.

    No wonder we end up with ‘gay marriage’ and ‘rainbow’-lit white house.

    I mean WTF.

  128. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Miro23
    A good and necessary article. I read plenty of US news but this is the first that I've heard of Pizzagate.

    Maybe it should be called Pizzaham… like Rotherham.

  129. @Learning
    Aedon: I agree that the Podestas and Comet Ping Pong are creep. However, regarding the missing child in Portugal, those sketches were different views of the same guy. An number of people with children were seen that night. A problem was that the Portguese authorities initially suspected the parents. There are conspiracy blogs about her parents on Facebook. The fact that Freud had a house there is another really creep fact though.

    Yes it seemed a bit odd that they eere recorded as for the same guy. But that could be explained by them simply not appearing together but perhaps both being in the same coloured shorts and shirts…

    • Replies: @Learning
    Here is an article from April 2016. It states that the two different e-fit sketches were given by an Irish couple who saw a man with a child in the area. Also I have a hard time believing even depraved upper echelon power freaks would do the actual kidnapping themselves.


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/03/16/madeleine-mccann-latest-are-police-any-closer-to-knowing-the-tru/
  130. @James Kabala
    Where I find that this whole thing breaks down is that the original claim was that pizza was supposed to be code for child pornography. No one originally suggested that there was any connection to actual pizza. Alefantis was dragged in only when someone decided that any reference to pizza in the e-mails, even something as normal and unremarkable as a mention of a pizza party by an actual pizza place owner, must refer to child porn. I am sure that the true believers have done some mental gymnastics/retconning and now say, "They used pizza as a code precisely because the ringleader was an actual pizzeria owner!" But that was not the original claim.

    P.S. I have now finally seen the famous "girl with her hands taped to a table." I am very underwhelmed. You do realize the kinds of silly stunts and games that kids like to do, right? The ping pong player behind her indicates that this was all in public.

    P.P.S. Is there any evidence that this "pedophile symbols" document is really from the FBI? Did anyone ever hear of these alleged symbols before last month?

    “pizza” has been used on 4Chan for many, many years as a reference to child pornography.

    Child Pornography -> CP -> Cheese Pizza

    • Replies: @James Kabala
    That actually reinforces my point if true - if the term really does have some kind of underground existence as slang or code, and it is just based on the matching letters CP, the claim that it is linked to real pizza seems like a pretty improbable coincidence.
  131. @Alfred1860
    Do some of your own research on this topic and you will come to a different conclusion if you can get beyond your massive bias. The Burning Platform has featured a series of posts over the last few weeks that provide a volume of evidence that is impossible to discount.

    Most people cannot accept something like this would be real because they cannot fathom the depths of evil that exist in this world.....why, I don't know. You'd think the fact that many of the people implicated have also been the ones fully on board with unprovoked wars that have killed, maimed and displaced millions of people, including children, would be evidence enough.

    Kudos to Ron Unz for exposing more people to this tragic, disgusting, horrendous story.

    When we look at the immense scale of corruption in the political world it becomes much easier to understand how this can be when the spectre of blackmail is introduced. At one time homosexual blackmail was probably a potent force but now not so much, but what form of blackmail could ever be more potent than pedo-blackmail?

    • Replies: @Eustace Tilley (not)
    Well said, Your Grace.

    It occurred to me after watching the #PizzaGate video now available at unz.com that the bronze anti-art sculpture of Jeffrey Dahmer's unfortunate headless contortionist seen displayed so prominently in Tony Podesta's house is a blasphemous parody of a crucifix. The sacrifice of Christ, voluntarily entered into and divinely ordained, can be contrasted with this involuntary human sacrifice of a sexual deviant, done in sin and secrecy for the satisfaction of profoundly perverse desires. Contrast the dignity of the crucified Christ in any good sculpture or painting with the obscene contortions of this poor, headless creature. "Men prefer darkness to light because their deeds are evil."

    As the video makes clear, everything in the Satanic universe is "backwards" from the way it is in the divinely-ordained universe. Now we can see the important role that modern (post-WWI) critics and thinkers have played in the destruction of Western civilization: their Theories of the Painted Word exalt decadence and ugliness in the service of their Satanic world-view.

    It's very important that the perpetrators of child abuse not escape justice.

    , @Beefcake the Mighty
    Agreed. I'm old enough to remember when cheating on your wife with another woman was sufficiently scandalous to destroy careers. Now, with the culture so hypersexualized and desensitized, they have to up the ante.
  132. Regrettably, though one may have grown old without ever feeling the wish to have sexual contact with a pre-adolescent or of anyone of the same sex it hasn’t been possible for a long time to deny the prevalence of socially disapproved sex drives and behaviours. So one finds that the nice young presenter on the antique show has been arrested for downloading and keeping pedophile images. And so on… But isn’t the idea of a large network, and what is needed to keep it covered up, a bit much to swallow? Nasty minds? Conspiracy theories?

    Well I suppose not. Sex as a drive and the perverse varieties of expression that we know to manifest themselves are enough to make one accept the pedophile reality. Then the network and the cover up? The cover up, however difficult to make it reliable, is just a consequence of the danger their behaviour exposes them to. And the network? Easy enough to explain once you are in it – like knowing that you could attend mass in a number of aristocratic Elizabethan households. But the detail of why and how it should grow from a very small group is obviously more complex. I guess that there are organisers and facilitators who seek various rewards, some financial, some in young flesh, some in the obtaining of blackmailing power.

  133. @coyote
    lolz. "central banksters"... whooooo could they possibly beeeee.....? follow the $hekel$..... little men behind the curtains.... those great and powerful ozzzzies- such a clever little wizard you are.

    See #117 if that’s not too much intellectual effort for you.

  134. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Linh Dinh
    Valuable article.

    In the picture of a man holding a small child, the bead necklace alludes to semen, and Besta is also one vowel short of Bestia, "Beast."

    I think DC should be called New Havana.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwFC9QKCzgw

    Even if there was no pedo stuff, it is deeply dispiriting, disillusioning, and disturbing that we are ruled by such people into or tolerant of homo-degeneracy, decadence, puerile sensibility, and cynicism.

    Everything about them seems to be about power and privilege for power and privilege’s sake.

    But in a world in which God is dead, culture is degenerate, traditions are forgotten, morality is a joke, and identities are based on TV shows & porny music, what can we expect? Boomers’ gift to us.

    When degeneracy and perversion are so widespread, every transgressor is looking out for others. Bruce Jenner is a ‘woman’, privileged people are into cuck or swinging culture, young kids have access to hard porn, pop music is prostitution, etc.
    And more and more female teachers are caught having sex with students.

    Since so many are into one perversion or another, they go wink-wink with everyone else.

  135. @utu
    "3-year-old child" - it is redundant to say child in this case. You you are using overly dramatic language.

    “young enough for the guy to die.” - So you would kill people for sexting to minors?

    "How would you react if someone sent sexual photos or propositions to your 13-year-old child?" I would punish my child first and cut it of internet.

    It’s the age difference and the power equation that matters. If a fifteen year old is sexting a thirteen year old it’s quite different than a grown man like Anthony Wiener. I couldn’t blame any father who administered a sound beating to an adult creep who was sexting a minor. What kind of a society doesn’t protect children?

  136. @No_0ne
    He probably believes that Greville Janner is jewish, too. These conspiracy theorists...

    Assuming you are too smart for elementary logical fallacies….. what is your point? Pedophilia and all sorts of sexual misbehaviour seem to be an oecumenical affair.

  137. @Aedon Cassiel
    Yes, I wanted to showcase that there is a wide range in how strongly suggestive the different bits of claimed evidence are. However, the fact that adult women and wives are involved establishes little, because it is a well known phenomena that in most of these high–profile cases, the wives are aware and either say nothing, or else actively cover for their pedophile husbands.

    In any case, I think the weaker bits of evidence in this case become stronger in the light of other stronger pieces of evidence. As I wrote in the comment section over at Counter–Currents,

    “…if you search “Podesta Madeline McCann”, there are a number of coincidences suggesting the possibility the brothers could have had a role in her disappearance. The key point is that Clement Freud, the convicted pedophile who I mentioned in the essay the brothers remained close friends with, has a mansion less than half a mile away from where the young girl disappeared in Portugal. We know that the Podesta brothers traveled there on occassion, there’s reason to think they may have been there during the month she disappeared, and the police sketches look disturbingly identical to both John and Tony Podesta—see here for a side by side comparison. See also: “Emails between ‘paedophile’ Clement Freud and Madeleine McCann’s parents to be probed for child sex abuse inquiry.”

    … Now, when you add things like a bedroom lined with photos of “documentary-style pictures of naked teenagers” to something like the emails listing childrens’ ages and calling getting in a pool with them “further entertainment,” it starts feeling less innocent. I could picture a scenario in which I list my childrens’ ages and innocently refer to them as “further entertainment” for guests. But if I knew those guests were people who keep photos of naked children in their bedroom and were close friends with high–profile pedophiles and traveled around to visit them, I might be just a little bit more on guard about the language I was using and whether I was actively inviting my children to jump in pools with them.”

    You may find you agree with #133

  138. @Sunbeam
    "the bead necklace alludes to semen,"

    Uhhh.... what?

    Never heard of a pearl necklace? You’ve led a sheltered life it seems.

  139. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    For this to have legs, it will need a Linda Tripp.

    But who’s willing to come forth?

    Remember how the establishment circled the wagons around Alger Hiss?

    Even as late as the 2000s, a panel made the anti-communists out to be the bad guys.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/06/AR2007040600304.html

    And it was only later with the Venona Papers that it became clear how extensive the Soviet spy ring was.

    Harry White might have been involved too.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Dexter_White#Venona_project

    Or consider Sobell.

    https://newrepublic.com/article/61271/red-dusk

    Lies, lies, lies, lies, and denials.

    But finally…

    “In the nearly six decades since the beginning of the case, Sobell had maintained his innocence. Suddenly, he admits the great lie of his life. He is guilty, he concedes. And so was Julius.”

    The fact is the media sided with the Sobells of the world while assigning all guilt and evil to Joe McCarthy.

    Could media be sobellishing the truth again?

  140. @Wizard of Oz
    I probably know a good deal more about central banks than most of those who obsess about them on UR. Did you not notice the suggestion of madness in his last par? He's probably a waste of time to converse with so I thought I might just try winkling out some sane meaning from him in the shortest way to start with.

    As the saying goes, the mountain is clearer from the plain than it is to the climber.

    • Replies: @Tabasco Jack
    There is another saying: There is no greater joy than a fat young boy.
  141. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    MSM is so eager to kill this story but tried so hard to keep alive the UVA hoax.

    Even after it became clear that the whole thing had been made up, NY Times pretended that it wasn’t sure.

    But then, look at our political culture.

    Say nothing of Israel’s 200 nukes but never stop bitching about Iran’s non-existing nukes.

    And even though the West is the aggressor, blame Russia.

    Yellow Cake and WMD. Colin Powell’s lies and MSM’s collusion.

    Silence about black thuggery but pretend innocent blacks are murdered by evil white cops.

    A real inversion of truth and lies.

    Lugenpresse calling its detractors ‘fake news’.

  142. I have yet to notice anyone who has replicated the painting of the row of bound and kneeling children (all girls?) making the observation that all of their bottoms are red. Clearly there is intended to be a message in this.

  143. @Tulip
    I confess I don't get it. I can understand pizzagate as a brutal and nasty last minute campaign tactic, but the election is over, drop it. A mighty tissue of "coincidences" woven together in a manner that would make Glenn Beck envious. I guess I need to fashion a tin foil hat and then re-read the article. I think it just discredits the source more than the target.

    If someone is actually raping children, then where are the children? The kids related to the socialite that she is bringing to a pool party? Come on, that is what plebes are for. How are the children procured? Where do they live? There is necessarily logistics to this kind of activity, and zero evidence of logistics, just some weird emails and weird art. Its like saying someone is a coke head because they had a runny nose. tweet at early hours in the morning, and behave very alpha.

    ,

    First, the emails are not just weird. Second, regarding this:

    “There is necessarily logistics to this kind of activity, and zero evidence of logistics…”

    Actually, there is.

    Jeffrey Epstein, the Lolita Express, and his pedophile island. This was obviously covered up.

    The Pizzagaters have shed a tiny bit of light on Laura Silsby. Look her up.

  144. @MQ
    This 'story' is complete horseshit / random confirmation bias. Scan the full social media accounts of any group of 100+ people and you could find just as much 'evidence' if you were determined to do so. This is scary -- the day that any social media post involving children that uses the word "chicken" anywhere in it counts as evidence of pedophilia is the day anyone could be smeared.

    Ron Unz should be ashamed of himself for giving this kind of unhinged paranoid fear-mongering space.

    I believe that this story merits investigation and dialectic, not the type of ad hominem rhetoric you are sputtering. Perhaps you should consider where your own sympathies lie, and why.

  145. @Tim Howells
    Once this story started to break Alefantis made his Instagram account private, but researchers have used the Way Back Machine to access the previously public posts. I just tried to do this myself, but I got long downloads and after about 10 minutes I cancelled out of it. I've seen enough highly consistent video and photos re Comet Pizza and Ping Pong, Alefantis, the Podestas and their "art" collections etc. to know that this whole thing stinks. At the very least these guys are creepy as Hell. Far, far too many explicit and implicit references to sex and violence with very young children and infants for my taste. If this is not being actively investigated by the FBI that stinks too. IMO this is yet another Jimmy Savile case: i.e. literally Satanic pedophilia on a vast scale, with the active collusion of our political and media elites.

    “IMO this is yet another Jimmy Savile case: i.e. literally Satanic pedophilia on a vast scale, with the active collusion of our political and media elites”

    Savile case wasn’t that at all – more like famous DJ/charity fundraiser with great PR taking advantage of his status with teenage girls. How many of the post-death allegations are true, who knows, but we know some definitely aren’t true – we know because long-time blogger Anna Raccoon was a resident of a small children’s home where Savile was claimed to have abused girls. She has a whole series of seven posts called “Past Lives and Present Misgivings” on the allegations.

    http://annaraccoon.com/2012/10/24/past-lives-and-present-misgivings-part-four/

    More “active collusion” is likely in the cases of Cyril Smith and Greville Janner, two pretty high-profile and connected MPs, who seem to have managed to go to their graves scot free.

    • Replies: @Tim Howells
    I'm intrigued by the Anna Racoon stuff, but I found it completely incoherent. Could you explain what these claims are, and why they should be taken seriously?

    Re Sir Savile and Satanic child sex abuse, at least two victims gave entirely credible and consistent accounts. Here's a mainstream source:

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/370439/Jimmy-Savile-was-part-of-satanic-ring

  146. @James Kabala
    Where I find that this whole thing breaks down is that the original claim was that pizza was supposed to be code for child pornography. No one originally suggested that there was any connection to actual pizza. Alefantis was dragged in only when someone decided that any reference to pizza in the e-mails, even something as normal and unremarkable as a mention of a pizza party by an actual pizza place owner, must refer to child porn. I am sure that the true believers have done some mental gymnastics/retconning and now say, "They used pizza as a code precisely because the ringleader was an actual pizzeria owner!" But that was not the original claim.

    P.S. I have now finally seen the famous "girl with her hands taped to a table." I am very underwhelmed. You do realize the kinds of silly stunts and games that kids like to do, right? The ping pong player behind her indicates that this was all in public.

    P.P.S. Is there any evidence that this "pedophile symbols" document is really from the FBI? Did anyone ever hear of these alleged symbols before last month?

    Well it did come from Wikileaks of some FBI documents.

  147. @Miro23

    What if criminal deviancy rather than disqualifying a person, is not instead some weird prerequisite for elite status? Don’t have to worry about rock throwers if they’re inside the same glass house.
     
    Could be, or more likely some sort of organized blackmail trap. Enough politicians seem to be involved in this and Epstein's island.

    The idea of on-camera child rape as a prerequisite of entry into organizations/guarantee of cooperation is a pretty old one. It’s no doubt been done.

  148. I think this is just the tip of the tail of what is surfacing. This is going to be civilization busting before it’s over because of the obvious concentration of power in the hands of the ‘people’ involved. They will put up one hell of a fight and the big question at this time for me is where Trump stands in it all. Either he is the opening needed for change or else this battle just got much bigger.

  149. @utu
    50,000 - No way.

    "Weiner’s sexting of young children" - what do you mean by young children? 13, 14 years old is young?

    You are sick. You obviously have no children of your own.

    • Replies: @utu
    "You are sick." - Please explain. What did I write to justify it?
    , @CalDre
    Let's get a grip. The first two women who Weiner sexted were in their 20s. The third was 15.

    To be clear: 15 is in no way a "young child". "Child" generally means a per-pubescent minor; whereas a "teenager" means a post-pubescent minor. Hence arguably a 15yo is not even a child, but certainly not a "young" one - a young child is, say, under 5 years old (and yes they are sexually assaulted too).

    In fact, in many countries, a 15 yo is considered mature enough to consent to sexual intercourse. In this case it was just exchange of pics, not bodily fluids.
  150. @TelfoedJohn
    In the U.K., all the abuse took place by people in power. Catholic clergy over choirboys. Celebs over their fans. Pakistanis targeted girls from broken homes. The wealthy and 'noble' preyed on the lesser born.

    The worst though are the politicians, who have maximum power. I'm not sure I believe the pizzagate thing - the evidence is not conclusive (show me a victim or witness). But I certainly believe it is possible.

    But I certainly believe it is possible.

    It’s not only possible, but plausible.

    Any decent study of history should teach nearly anyone that expecting the worst from those in positions of power will get one closer to the truth than not. There is little doubt, I bet, that “Pizzagate” is merely the tip of the iceberg.

    • Replies: @Ace
    Craig Spence's call boy business in Washington clearly involved high civilian and military officials. And Spence was able to take friends on midnight tours of the White House.

    Spence's house was provided by the Japanese ruling party. The house they provided him had at least one bedroom wired for audio and video. I'm sure the Japanese didn't know that.

    The Washington Times covered it for two or three weeks and it was never mentioned again.

    Kids from Boys Town in Nebraska were allegedly used.

    Unpack that and hope your hair doesn't turn white.
  151. @anon
    Orwell is not to be trusted with Catholics or people he views as Fascists. Dali was certainly weird, and some of his art is certainly perverse, but I suspect fabulation here (on Dali's part, not Orwell's). Had he actually thrown a boy off a bridge or assaulted a girl (both in public), we would not need to wait for his autobiography to find out.

    Dali was undoubtedly perverse, but more than anything a showman, and a very crass one.

    I admit a liking for all of Magritte and most of Dali. This may be clouding my judgment.

    but I suspect fabulation here (on Dali’s part, not Orwell’s)

    Yeah, I thought the same thing, but then it occurred to me that a person would have to be pretty perverted to promote such stories of himself.

  152. @Anonymous
    Political correctness was definitely one of the, if not the, primary reasons for the Rotherham scandal coverup. But another major factor was the entrenched culture of pedophilia in British society and culture. Every aspect of British society seems to have ties to pedophilia, from Parliament, to the elites, the City of London, the government, public schools, Oxbridge, the universities, all the way down to Paki immigrant communities and even British soccer. The most recent revelation is that British soccer has been infested with pedophilia for decades, and it's been covered up for decades. This culture of pedophilia and covering up for it in British society and culture helped facilitate Rotherham and the coverup:

    "Pedophilia Scandal Sends Shock Waves Through U.K. Soccer"

    http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/12/02/504164498/pedophilia-scandal-sends-shock-waves-through-u-k-soccer

    In mid-November, a former professional soccer player told a British newspaper that as a child, he had been sexually abused for years by a well-respected youth coach. The player said he knew other players had experienced the same thing — and that a culture of silence kept the abusers out of the spotlight.

    But he wasn't keeping the secret anymore.

    "I want to get it out and give other people an opportunity to do the same," Andy Woodward told The Guardian. "I want to give people strength. ... I'm convinced there is an awful lot more to come out."

    His interview unleashed a flood.

    In the weeks since, a half-dozen other former players have come forward in the media, alleging years of abuse by multiple coaches and scouts in the U.K. More than 20 former pros have alleged abuse to the Professional Footballers' Association. Some 350 people have reported abuse at youth soccer clubs to police, according to The Associated Press.
     

    How the “fake news” trope works in the real world:
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/07/trump-adviser-son-michael-flynn-sacked-pizzagate-comet-ping-pong-restaurant

    Flynn’s tweet regarding this story was perfectly reasonable.
    The story has been stamped “bogus” without any kind of investigation.
    No response to questions about the weird content of emails by Podesta and others.
    Stonewalling.
    Makes one think the shotgun blast at Comet might even have been a false flag!!

  153. For those wondering about the authenticity of the FBI document, here is the wikileaks page where it was revealed in 2007 and they say “Wikileaks has verified the document”:

    https://wikileaks.org/wiki/FBI_pedophile_symbols

    And here is a MSM article about it:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3560069/The-symbols-pedophiles-use-signal-sordid-sexual-preferences-social-media.html

  154. Wikileaks revealed the FBI document containing the meaning of the symbols in 2007. I posted a comment with the link but it’s still in moderation.

  155. @Che Guava
    Why, Jacques?

    I met someone overseas who was in Dali's entourage late in Dali's life, he was sleazy, but a gent, fine to accept 'no' for an answer and continue the conversation and drinks.

    Dali was a genius with paint, who but Magritte or Miro among the Surrealists can compare as a painter?

    Talented self-promoter and many great side-projects, too.

    So why single him out for denigration?

    So why single him out for denigration?

    I used him as an example of graphic example of GIGO since the “artwork” in the article is the product of obviously sick minds, and he obviously was a sicko, I thought it all tied in.

    I do think it’s telling that so many commenters here have risen to his defense. It hints that people aren’t confident enough of their own judgement to buck the tide and criticize sewage when they see it. No wonder the Hillary Clintons, the George Bushs, John McCains, and Kissingers of the world so often hold sway over it. They are not only not held accountable, but good folks even make excuses and vote for such pathetic heaps of compost.

    Furthermore, Dali was an artist in about the same sense that O-bomb-a is a peacemaker, Marx and Freud were scientists and Netanyahu is a stateman. Those who judge Dali on his “perception and technical merits” as contributing somehow to the betterment of society probably also have been gulled into believing the Peace Prize is anything but a mockery against reason and decency.

    And even furthermore, I’d like to point out that people can be and have been duped into all supporting all sorts of slush and rot, and it’d probably be to our personal and society’s benefit to be on guard against getting sucked in. Hence Juvenal, “Difficile est saturam non scribere.” (Yeah, I know I’m railing at the storm tossed seas.)

    Anyway, those who believe that Dali produced anything of artistic merit probably would all stand agog at the works of the “critically acclaimed” Disumbrationist, Paul Jordan-Smith. Yeah, and the Shrub was a Hawvawd and Yale schooled compassionate conservative, and the creeps in the article are all good guys.

    Where do you people get your faith?

    • Replies: @Anon
    Paul Jordan Smith was a bad painter with a vivid imagination and a wry sense of humor.

    Dali was a good painter and a good compositor. His most famous works are famous for a reason; Persistence of Memory and Madonna of Port Lligat. Even when Dali's work is bad in the sense of encouraging evil, it can be well-executed. The Sacrament of the Last Supper strikes me as degenerate and disgusting, but it is a well-executed surrealist work. Leda Atomica is simply beautiful; nothing of the kind could have been done by a bad (in the sense of being unskilled) artist.

    Most of modern art and a lot of Dali is simply artistic fraud. There is no merit whatsoever to the "rotting taxicab" or the "lobster telephone" (a lobster-themed telephone could have been done well, actually, but it wasn't, and even then it would hardly be high art).

    You may not like Dali's work, for either moral or aesthetic reasons, but his talent is undeniable.

    , @Che Guava

    Where do you people get your faith?
     
    I am not to expressing a faith, although I am having one, Christian, Dali was a genius of art, aside from those listed by Priss in the later post, and many others, Dali's Christian works are also sublime.

    You are likely to having the snob reflex 'normal people like Dali, so I must hate it.'
  156. @Jus' Sayin'...
    Dali was a self-promoter, a con artist, and probably a sociopath. OTOH, he was from a purely technical standpoint one of the greatest, if not the greatest, painter of the twentieth century, When he chose to, Dali produced the finest surreal paintings. One should not dismiss Cellini's sculptures because he was a homicidal egomaniac nor Gesualdo's motets because he murdered his wife.

    One should not dismiss Cellini’s sculptures because he was a homicidal egomaniac nor Gesualdo’s motets because he murdered his wife.

    OTOH, no one should accept an obvious cow patty as a ham sandwich even if it was produced by a highly promoted cow either.

    A lot of these goofs are no Goyas.

  157. @NoseytheDuke
    When we look at the immense scale of corruption in the political world it becomes much easier to understand how this can be when the spectre of blackmail is introduced. At one time homosexual blackmail was probably a potent force but now not so much, but what form of blackmail could ever be more potent than pedo-blackmail?

    Well said, Your Grace.

    It occurred to me after watching the #PizzaGate video now available at unz.com that the bronze anti-art sculpture of Jeffrey Dahmer’s unfortunate headless contortionist seen displayed so prominently in Tony Podesta’s house is a blasphemous parody of a crucifix. The sacrifice of Christ, voluntarily entered into and divinely ordained, can be contrasted with this involuntary human sacrifice of a sexual deviant, done in sin and secrecy for the satisfaction of profoundly perverse desires. Contrast the dignity of the crucified Christ in any good sculpture or painting with the obscene contortions of this poor, headless creature. “Men prefer darkness to light because their deeds are evil.”

    As the video makes clear, everything in the Satanic universe is “backwards” from the way it is in the divinely-ordained universe. Now we can see the important role that modern (post-WWI) critics and thinkers have played in the destruction of Western civilization: their Theories of the Painted Word exalt decadence and ugliness in the service of their Satanic world-view.

    It’s very important that the perpetrators of child abuse not escape justice.

  158. This gets better and better. So pizza is code for child pornography?! I often order pizza at the Barnes and Noble Starbucks coffee bar. Can’t wait for one of the baristas to either direct me to their child porn section or else inform me that B&N doesn’t carry child porn. So far they’ve just been serving me —– pizza!!!

    • Replies: @Eustace Tilley (not)
    Sorry, Captain Kirt. You need to spend more time on Planet Earth. Trying to drown out the children's screams by turning up the volume of the canned MSM-approved laugh track won't work this time.

    You're a very good example of the type of "educated" person turned out by our colleges and universities: well-trained in Crimestop. It shows the difference between the contemporary American and the European of old. The European could "read" art but the American is functionally illiterate.

    The sad part is that if future AG Jeff Sessions ever decides to go after these monsters you won't feel one scintilla of moral responsibility; you'll still be smirking in front of your Stephen Colbert, mocha latte in hand.

    , @Ace
    Possibly one of the stupidest comments I've read in a long time. And that's saying something.
  159. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @jacques sheete

    So why single him out for denigration?
     
    I used him as an example of graphic example of GIGO since the "artwork" in the article is the product of obviously sick minds, and he obviously was a sicko, I thought it all tied in.

    I do think it's telling that so many commenters here have risen to his defense. It hints that people aren't confident enough of their own judgement to buck the tide and criticize sewage when they see it. No wonder the Hillary Clintons, the George Bushs, John McCains, and Kissingers of the world so often hold sway over it. They are not only not held accountable, but good folks even make excuses and vote for such pathetic heaps of compost.

    Furthermore, Dali was an artist in about the same sense that O-bomb-a is a peacemaker, Marx and Freud were scientists and Netanyahu is a stateman. Those who judge Dali on his "perception and technical merits" as contributing somehow to the betterment of society probably also have been gulled into believing the Peace Prize is anything but a mockery against reason and decency.

    And even furthermore, I'd like to point out that people can be and have been duped into all supporting all sorts of slush and rot, and it'd probably be to our personal and society's benefit to be on guard against getting sucked in. Hence Juvenal, "Difficile est saturam non scribere." (Yeah, I know I'm railing at the storm tossed seas.)

    Anyway, those who believe that Dali produced anything of artistic merit probably would all stand agog at the works of the "critically acclaimed" Disumbrationist, Paul Jordan-Smith. Yeah, and the Shrub was a Hawvawd and Yale schooled compassionate conservative, and the creeps in the article are all good guys.

    Where do you people get your faith?

    Paul Jordan Smith was a bad painter with a vivid imagination and a wry sense of humor.

    Dali was a good painter and a good compositor. His most famous works are famous for a reason; Persistence of Memory and Madonna of Port Lligat. Even when Dali’s work is bad in the sense of encouraging evil, it can be well-executed. The Sacrament of the Last Supper strikes me as degenerate and disgusting, but it is a well-executed surrealist work. Leda Atomica is simply beautiful; nothing of the kind could have been done by a bad (in the sense of being unskilled) artist.

    Most of modern art and a lot of Dali is simply artistic fraud. There is no merit whatsoever to the “rotting taxicab” or the “lobster telephone” (a lobster-themed telephone could have been done well, actually, but it wasn’t, and even then it would hardly be high art).

    You may not like Dali’s work, for either moral or aesthetic reasons, but his talent is undeniable.

  160. @Anonymous
    Political correctness was definitely one of the, if not the, primary reasons for the Rotherham scandal coverup. But another major factor was the entrenched culture of pedophilia in British society and culture. Every aspect of British society seems to have ties to pedophilia, from Parliament, to the elites, the City of London, the government, public schools, Oxbridge, the universities, all the way down to Paki immigrant communities and even British soccer. The most recent revelation is that British soccer has been infested with pedophilia for decades, and it's been covered up for decades. This culture of pedophilia and covering up for it in British society and culture helped facilitate Rotherham and the coverup:

    "Pedophilia Scandal Sends Shock Waves Through U.K. Soccer"

    http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/12/02/504164498/pedophilia-scandal-sends-shock-waves-through-u-k-soccer

    In mid-November, a former professional soccer player told a British newspaper that as a child, he had been sexually abused for years by a well-respected youth coach. The player said he knew other players had experienced the same thing — and that a culture of silence kept the abusers out of the spotlight.

    But he wasn't keeping the secret anymore.

    "I want to get it out and give other people an opportunity to do the same," Andy Woodward told The Guardian. "I want to give people strength. ... I'm convinced there is an awful lot more to come out."

    His interview unleashed a flood.

    In the weeks since, a half-dozen other former players have come forward in the media, alleging years of abuse by multiple coaches and scouts in the U.K. More than 20 former pros have alleged abuse to the Professional Footballers' Association. Some 350 people have reported abuse at youth soccer clubs to police, according to The Associated Press.
     

    I remember watching an excellent Australian film years ago that covered this very topic. It portrayed in a very realistic way the whole homo/ pedo underground in the upper rungs of society, from posh public schools to university, where grooming of youngsters occurred, to Parliament and Finance, where the powerful pederasts/homosexuals ruled. In this world, the shortest way to power and riches for a young man was to seek out the protection and guidance of an older and powerful homo/pederast lover. It was shot in Australia and in Australian settings and institutions, but it’s all so British you’d think the film makers really intended the story to reflect British society and were using Australia as a legal cover.
    Sorry, I can’t remember the title of the movie or the director. It was quite disturbing to watch but very interesting.
    Perhaps Pat Hannagan or some other knowledgeable Australian reader can help.

  161. @Mom
    You are sick. You obviously have no children of your own.

    “You are sick.” – Please explain. What did I write to justify it?

  162. @jacques sheete

    So why single him out for denigration?
     
    I used him as an example of graphic example of GIGO since the "artwork" in the article is the product of obviously sick minds, and he obviously was a sicko, I thought it all tied in.

    I do think it's telling that so many commenters here have risen to his defense. It hints that people aren't confident enough of their own judgement to buck the tide and criticize sewage when they see it. No wonder the Hillary Clintons, the George Bushs, John McCains, and Kissingers of the world so often hold sway over it. They are not only not held accountable, but good folks even make excuses and vote for such pathetic heaps of compost.

    Furthermore, Dali was an artist in about the same sense that O-bomb-a is a peacemaker, Marx and Freud were scientists and Netanyahu is a stateman. Those who judge Dali on his "perception and technical merits" as contributing somehow to the betterment of society probably also have been gulled into believing the Peace Prize is anything but a mockery against reason and decency.

    And even furthermore, I'd like to point out that people can be and have been duped into all supporting all sorts of slush and rot, and it'd probably be to our personal and society's benefit to be on guard against getting sucked in. Hence Juvenal, "Difficile est saturam non scribere." (Yeah, I know I'm railing at the storm tossed seas.)

    Anyway, those who believe that Dali produced anything of artistic merit probably would all stand agog at the works of the "critically acclaimed" Disumbrationist, Paul Jordan-Smith. Yeah, and the Shrub was a Hawvawd and Yale schooled compassionate conservative, and the creeps in the article are all good guys.

    Where do you people get your faith?

    Where do you people get your faith?

    I am not to expressing a faith, although I am having one, Christian, Dali was a genius of art, aside from those listed by Priss in the later post, and many others, Dali’s Christian works are also sublime.

    You are likely to having the snob reflex ‘normal people like Dali, so I must hate it.’

  163. Well said. This is how many people view this matter. I don’t think it’s coincidence that the mainstream media is starting a campaign against “fake news” which targets rightwing websites while Pizzagate is gaining momentum. They’ll continue to try and discredit anyone who does a real investigation into it. Why wouldn’t people want to investigate even the slightest possibility of child sex crimes. Those not in favor of a real investigation have questionable motivations.

    • Replies: @Anon
    As John Helmer points out, the new digital news business model doesn't provide any funds for investigative journalism.
    So who is going to pay for a serious journalist to do the legwork and paperwork and FOIA requests, etc.?
  164. The pizza joints part in the story seems to be disinformation. It is possible that Edgar Maddison Welch is a part of the same disinformation. One can even consider that it was a purposeful false flag to compromise all pizza gate investigators. But suspicions about sex parties with minors, etc. and involvement of Podesta brothers are justified.

  165. @utu
    Report him to the police.

    Dude, you are the descendent of VIKINGS…TEUTONIC KNIGHTS…WESTERN COWBOYS…NEANDERTHALS…ROMAN CENTURIONS!

    And you’re going to “report it to the police?”

    You folks are doomed.

  166. @Kirt
    This gets better and better. So pizza is code for child pornography?! I often order pizza at the Barnes and Noble Starbucks coffee bar. Can't wait for one of the baristas to either direct me to their child porn section or else inform me that B&N doesn't carry child porn. So far they've just been serving me ----- pizza!!!

    Sorry, Captain Kirt. You need to spend more time on Planet Earth. Trying to drown out the children’s screams by turning up the volume of the canned MSM-approved laugh track won’t work this time.

    You’re a very good example of the type of “educated” person turned out by our colleges and universities: well-trained in Crimestop. It shows the difference between the contemporary American and the European of old. The European could “read” art but the American is functionally illiterate.

    The sad part is that if future AG Jeff Sessions ever decides to go after these monsters you won’t feel one scintilla of moral responsibility; you’ll still be smirking in front of your Stephen Colbert, mocha latte in hand.

  167. Paul Jordan Smith was a bad painter with a vivid imagination and a wry sense of humor.

    He didn’t even claim to be a painter, but for a short time (until he admitted the hoax) he got approval from the gulls and I ain’t talkin birds.

    I made mention of it to illustrate the point that people can be seduced into believing road apples are edible and the concept applies especially to the snobs, it seems.

    The “art” posted above is done well in a technical sense too, but that doesn’t justify it or the perps in my opinion or negate the claim that there’s a lot of sick stuff out there.

    The only people I know who claim to appreciate his work are those who’ve been told it’s special.

    Next I expect to hear that the dippy dauber, Churchill, was some gifted, genius pittore.

    You may not like Dali’s work, for either moral or aesthetic reasons, but his talent is undeniable.

    Yeah, but that is not the point at all.

    • Replies: @Anon
    Why are you calling me a snob? What do you dislike about the Madonna of Port Lligat? What is good art in your opinion?
    You compared a man with talent to a man with no talent. What are you trying to say?

    If a man paints, he can be evaluated as a painter. PJS is a bad painter. What he had was a vivid if weird imagination. Most critics are either dimwits or clockpunchers; so what? I didn't cite any, you did (Orwell). Please support your opinion if you are going to call us all snobs. Che G. suggested that you are the snob here and I begin to agree with him.

    Incidentally PJS illustrates the point your various interlocutors are making. His Jordanovitch stuff is seriously bizarre. If it were analyzed by someone with pretensions to psychology, it would reveal a seriously twisted soul. In fact, his stuff is rather more nightmarish than the vast majority of Dali.

    Yet he was a perfectly normal fellow; he used the imagery of absurdity and degradation to make a joke. Dali did the same thing, but he used it to build a reputation. Critics are stupid or lazy, as I said above, and Dali gamed them. Don't let him get you too.

    An interesting point is that Dali (in his real work, not the <expletive> designed for dumbos) seems to improve spiritually with time.

    As far as I can see the only point is that you don't like Dali. That's okay. Some people are so benighted as not to like Vermeer. Many people don't like Giotto.

    But Che G. and myself know of which we speak, so don't go calling us snobs.

    Don't know about Churchill but Hitler was actually pretty decent (artist, not human being). No genius (unlike Dali) but quite capable.
  168. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    Let’s say there was no pedo-ring. I’m rather skeptical of it myself.

    But just look at that pizzeria. What kind of freako place is that?

    And why are some of the ‘most powerful’ people in DC such downright perverts and degenerates?

    The fish rots from the head. Degenerates run government, institutions, and culture.

    Government and judges push homo agenda. College push porn and 50 genders. Hollywood pushes drugs and tattoos. Disney turns girls into whores.

    And this isn’t just a ‘left’ vs ‘right’ problem. A lot of Trump voters were ass-tattoo freaks. The working class grew up on Jerry Springer, WWE, mentally deranged metal music, or Goth freakery.

    And middle class kids grew up on the nerdy black magic of Harry Potter whose teacher is a happy ass-man.

    Whether it’s elites and their Pervert Pizza or the underclass with their degeneracy, it’s ugly all around.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4006300/Filth-chaos-weird-religious-symbols-Pictures-appalling-conditions-inside-Oakland-warehouse-36-died.html

    We need Vito-Corleonism.

    This is how a man should be:

    https://youtu.be/IeDV0rxBq9E?t=1m35s

  169. Those little girls are in a kill room.

    That is bathroom tile designed for easy cleanup.

    Those are drainage vents on the floor.

    • Replies: @Anon
    I'm not sold on the pedo-ring. Too much risk, though I think those 'elites' are a bunch of pervs.

    If anything, this pedo-issue takes our eyes off the ball.

    The real issue should be that the governing elites of this nation in government, colleges, cultural institutions, media and even military(look at those tranny freaks) are a bunch of decadents, even degenerates. We are seeing the normalization of freakery and grossness.

    The fact that it is considered NORMAL for Hillary to invite Lena Dunham to the DNC speaks for itself. The fact that Newsweek celebrated Obama with a gay 'halo' speaks for itself. The fact that churches hang 'homo flags' speaks for itself.
    It is a sick nation.

    A tolerant nation has room for decadence and even degeneracy. It belongs in the underground. They always existed.
    But now, this underground stuff is the bobo cultural fixation of the elites who consider themselves 'hip' and 'edgy'.
    And they even introduce their kids to this stuff from a young age.
    Indeed, even without overt pedophilia, introducing sexuality to kids at a very young age is a kind of indirect pedophilia.
    When homo-ness is promoted among kids, what is being done? Kids will ask 'what is homo stuff?' And an honest answer will have to be, "some guys wanna stick pee pee into poo poo". But then, the kids will have to be told THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT, and if anything, WE SHOULD BLESS THE HOMOS. But why? What is so great about pee pee in poo poo?

    We really need Culturegate. The whole culture is a rotten scandal, and the fact that US globo-imperialism spreads this filth around the world speaks volumes about how sick America has become. We don't need real pedo-rings of 'pizzagate' to accuse the elites of filth and vileness. Their cultural life is garbage.

    Just look at this: 'mainstream' culture has no problem with it. If anything, it is promoted as the New Norm.

    http://rare.us/story/lena-dunham-posts-picture-of-herself-on-the-crapper-before-declaring-herself-a-feminist-hero/

  170. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @map
    Those little girls are in a kill room.

    That is bathroom tile designed for easy cleanup.

    Those are drainage vents on the floor.

    I’m not sold on the pedo-ring. Too much risk, though I think those ‘elites’ are a bunch of pervs.

    If anything, this pedo-issue takes our eyes off the ball.

    The real issue should be that the governing elites of this nation in government, colleges, cultural institutions, media and even military(look at those tranny freaks) are a bunch of decadents, even degenerates. We are seeing the normalization of freakery and grossness.

    The fact that it is considered NORMAL for Hillary to invite Lena Dunham to the DNC speaks for itself. The fact that Newsweek celebrated Obama with a gay ‘halo’ speaks for itself. The fact that churches hang ‘homo flags’ speaks for itself.
    It is a sick nation.

    A tolerant nation has room for decadence and even degeneracy. It belongs in the underground. They always existed.
    But now, this underground stuff is the bobo cultural fixation of the elites who consider themselves ‘hip’ and ‘edgy’.
    And they even introduce their kids to this stuff from a young age.
    Indeed, even without overt pedophilia, introducing sexuality to kids at a very young age is a kind of indirect pedophilia.
    When homo-ness is promoted among kids, what is being done? Kids will ask ‘what is homo stuff?’ And an honest answer will have to be, “some guys wanna stick pee pee into poo poo”. But then, the kids will have to be told THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT, and if anything, WE SHOULD BLESS THE HOMOS. But why? What is so great about pee pee in poo poo?

    We really need Culturegate. The whole culture is a rotten scandal, and the fact that US globo-imperialism spreads this filth around the world speaks volumes about how sick America has become. We don’t need real pedo-rings of ‘pizzagate’ to accuse the elites of filth and vileness. Their cultural life is garbage.

    Just look at this: ‘mainstream’ culture has no problem with it. If anything, it is promoted as the New Norm.

    http://rare.us/story/lena-dunham-posts-picture-of-herself-on-the-crapper-before-declaring-herself-a-feminist-hero/

    • Replies: @Stonehands

    The fact that it is considered NORMAL for Hillary to invite Lena Dunham to the DNC speaks for itself. The fact that Newsweek celebrated Obama with a gay ‘halo’ speaks for itself. The fact that churches hang ‘homo flags’ speaks for itself.
    It is a sick nation.
     
    Yep. I don't have to look any further then this perv Alefantis. This is what you get when sodomy is legal. Of course this craven bastard makes all kinds of snarky degenerate comments about children on his instagram...

    Society has been desensitized to homosexuality- so they have moved on to the "prize".

    You have hit it out of the park as usual, I enjoy and concur with your assesments.
  171. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Pablo
    Well said. This is how many people view this matter. I don't think it's coincidence that the mainstream media is starting a campaign against "fake news" which targets rightwing websites while Pizzagate is gaining momentum. They'll continue to try and discredit anyone who does a real investigation into it. Why wouldn't people want to investigate even the slightest possibility of child sex crimes. Those not in favor of a real investigation have questionable motivations.

    As John Helmer points out, the new digital news business model doesn’t provide any funds for investigative journalism.
    So who is going to pay for a serious journalist to do the legwork and paperwork and FOIA requests, etc.?

    • Replies: @robt
    The Washington Post found the funds to assign 27 investigative reporters for over a year to dig dirt on Trump, and bragged about it. Judging by what they came up with, it wasn't too fruitful.
  172. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Anon
    I think the girl abused by Roman Polanski was offered up by her mother.

    Given Hollywood and Jewish community's support of Polanski, something is very fishy.

    And look at Woltz.

    https://youtu.be/Lkp9UnXM72Q?t=1m7s

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13EmjpXQ8_w

    And look at this freaky stuff:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnrdetFAo1o

    Sorry, I don’t get the point of the “Woltz” scenes in The Godfather.
    What do these scenes show?

    • Replies: @Anon
    Those are deleted scenes and show Woltz as someone who sexually takes advantage of underage girls. And the girl's mother plays along to further her girl's career.

    This is made more explicit in the novel.

    I'm glad Coppola took the scenes out of the final cut because they all-too-conveniently justify what the Corleones to do Woltz. We can say he deserved it cuz he's a perv.

    Poor horsey.

  173. Re “And why are some of the ‘most powerful’ people in DC such downright perverts and degenerates? ”

    I thought you were going to say:
    What are the most powerful people in DC doing hanging out at this creepy pizza parlor and doing fundraising events there?
    We all know where Hillary goes for “real” money: The Saudis, Goldman Sachs, billionaires’ glitzy summer compounds in the Hamptons, places like that—you know, where the money is.
    So WTF is she doing in one of these pizza joints? Why would there be any real money there?
    With creepy, tawdry “artwork” on the walls?
    Something here does not pass the smell test.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    Agreed. Often one wonders why such outrageous decisions are made in politics that clearly contradict the public good and one wonders, why? This topic goes a long way to explaining the why. I'm not so sure if the investigating of it is the hard part or the broad exposure, but it needs to happen.

    I am probably more tolerant of 'deviates' than most on here. Queers don't bother me much, though I would recommend that they be more discreet and stop the promotion of their peccadilloes as normal. When it comes to children, even teenagers, I am very strict about them not being able to give consent and should be treated with respect, if not revered, by all adults with no exceptions.

    There is enough smoke here for a thorough investigation to be demanded and carried out. I hope nothing less ensues.
  174. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Anon
    Sorry, I don't get the point of the "Woltz" scenes in The Godfather.
    What do these scenes show?

    Those are deleted scenes and show Woltz as someone who sexually takes advantage of underage girls. And the girl’s mother plays along to further her girl’s career.

    This is made more explicit in the novel.

    I’m glad Coppola took the scenes out of the final cut because they all-too-conveniently justify what the Corleones to do Woltz. We can say he deserved it cuz he’s a perv.

    Poor horsey.

  175. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @jacques sheete

    Paul Jordan Smith was a bad painter with a vivid imagination and a wry sense of humor.
     
    He didn't even claim to be a painter, but for a short time (until he admitted the hoax) he got approval from the gulls and I ain't talkin birds.

    I made mention of it to illustrate the point that people can be seduced into believing road apples are edible and the concept applies especially to the snobs, it seems.

    The "art" posted above is done well in a technical sense too, but that doesn't justify it or the perps in my opinion or negate the claim that there's a lot of sick stuff out there.

    The only people I know who claim to appreciate his work are those who've been told it's special.

    Next I expect to hear that the dippy dauber, Churchill, was some gifted, genius pittore.


    You may not like Dali’s work, for either moral or aesthetic reasons, but his talent is undeniable.
     
    Yeah, but that is not the point at all.

    Why are you calling me a snob? What do you dislike about the Madonna of Port Lligat? What is good art in your opinion?
    You compared a man with talent to a man with no talent. What are you trying to say?

    If a man paints, he can be evaluated as a painter. PJS is a bad painter. What he had was a vivid if weird imagination. Most critics are either dimwits or clockpunchers; so what? I didn’t cite any, you did (Orwell). Please support your opinion if you are going to call us all snobs. Che G. suggested that you are the snob here and I begin to agree with him.

    Incidentally PJS illustrates the point your various interlocutors are making. His Jordanovitch stuff is seriously bizarre. If it were analyzed by someone with pretensions to psychology, it would reveal a seriously twisted soul. In fact, his stuff is rather more nightmarish than the vast majority of Dali.

    Yet he was a perfectly normal fellow; he used the imagery of absurdity and degradation to make a joke. Dali did the same thing, but he used it to build a reputation. Critics are stupid or lazy, as I said above, and Dali gamed them. Don’t let him get you too.

    An interesting point is that Dali (in his real work, not the <expletive> designed for dumbos) seems to improve spiritually with time.

    As far as I can see the only point is that you don’t like Dali. That’s okay. Some people are so benighted as not to like Vermeer. Many people don’t like Giotto.

    But Che G. and myself know of which we speak, so don’t go calling us snobs.

    Don’t know about Churchill but Hitler was actually pretty decent (artist, not human being). No genius (unlike Dali) but quite capable.

    • Replies: @Anon
    "An interesting point is that Dali (in his real work, not the designed for dumbos) seems to improve spiritually with time."

    Early Dali was indeed startling and striking in his surreal imagery.

    But he later became a brand, and he just sold himself.

    He went from being Dali to peddling Dalisms.

    By the time he did Madonna of Port Lligat, he was just rehashing his once fresh ideas into movie posters and ego-prop.

    This happens to artists when they run out of ideas... like Fellini after 8 1/2.
    He just became a marketer of Fellnisms.

    , @Anon
    "Don’t know about Churchill but Hitler was actually pretty decent (artist, not human being)."

    Churchill was much a better writer than Hitler was a painter.
  176. @Anonymous Nephew
    "IMO this is yet another Jimmy Savile case: i.e. literally Satanic pedophilia on a vast scale, with the active collusion of our political and media elites"

    Savile case wasn't that at all - more like famous DJ/charity fundraiser with great PR taking advantage of his status with teenage girls. How many of the post-death allegations are true, who knows, but we know some definitely aren't true - we know because long-time blogger Anna Raccoon was a resident of a small children's home where Savile was claimed to have abused girls. She has a whole series of seven posts called "Past Lives and Present Misgivings" on the allegations.

    http://annaraccoon.com/2012/10/24/past-lives-and-present-misgivings-part-four/

    More "active collusion" is likely in the cases of Cyril Smith and Greville Janner, two pretty high-profile and connected MPs, who seem to have managed to go to their graves scot free.

    I’m intrigued by the Anna Racoon stuff, but I found it completely incoherent. Could you explain what these claims are, and why they should be taken seriously?

    Re Sir Savile and Satanic child sex abuse, at least two victims gave entirely credible and consistent accounts. Here’s a mainstream source:

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/370439/Jimmy-Savile-was-part-of-satanic-ring

  177. @pepperinmono
    If you ponder it abstractly for a few minutes, it is utterly astounding that such a man could become Speaker of the House. WTF?

    The guy was a walking cesspool. That he was the UniParty figurehead for almost a decade indicates the extent of the corruption enveloping DC.

  178. @James Kabala
    Where I find that this whole thing breaks down is that the original claim was that pizza was supposed to be code for child pornography. No one originally suggested that there was any connection to actual pizza. Alefantis was dragged in only when someone decided that any reference to pizza in the e-mails, even something as normal and unremarkable as a mention of a pizza party by an actual pizza place owner, must refer to child porn. I am sure that the true believers have done some mental gymnastics/retconning and now say, "They used pizza as a code precisely because the ringleader was an actual pizzeria owner!" But that was not the original claim.

    P.S. I have now finally seen the famous "girl with her hands taped to a table." I am very underwhelmed. You do realize the kinds of silly stunts and games that kids like to do, right? The ping pong player behind her indicates that this was all in public.

    P.P.S. Is there any evidence that this "pedophile symbols" document is really from the FBI? Did anyone ever hear of these alleged symbols before last month?

    P.P.S. Is there any evidence that this “pedophile symbols” document is really from the FBI? Did anyone ever hear of these alleged symbols before last month?

    Well, the image of the FBI document above is marked “unclassified”, so I suppose you could look it up at the FBI’s website.

  179. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Anon
    Why are you calling me a snob? What do you dislike about the Madonna of Port Lligat? What is good art in your opinion?
    You compared a man with talent to a man with no talent. What are you trying to say?

    If a man paints, he can be evaluated as a painter. PJS is a bad painter. What he had was a vivid if weird imagination. Most critics are either dimwits or clockpunchers; so what? I didn't cite any, you did (Orwell). Please support your opinion if you are going to call us all snobs. Che G. suggested that you are the snob here and I begin to agree with him.

    Incidentally PJS illustrates the point your various interlocutors are making. His Jordanovitch stuff is seriously bizarre. If it were analyzed by someone with pretensions to psychology, it would reveal a seriously twisted soul. In fact, his stuff is rather more nightmarish than the vast majority of Dali.

    Yet he was a perfectly normal fellow; he used the imagery of absurdity and degradation to make a joke. Dali did the same thing, but he used it to build a reputation. Critics are stupid or lazy, as I said above, and Dali gamed them. Don't let him get you too.

    An interesting point is that Dali (in his real work, not the <expletive> designed for dumbos) seems to improve spiritually with time.

    As far as I can see the only point is that you don't like Dali. That's okay. Some people are so benighted as not to like Vermeer. Many people don't like Giotto.

    But Che G. and myself know of which we speak, so don't go calling us snobs.

    Don't know about Churchill but Hitler was actually pretty decent (artist, not human being). No genius (unlike Dali) but quite capable.

    “An interesting point is that Dali (in his real work, not the designed for dumbos) seems to improve spiritually with time.”

    Early Dali was indeed startling and striking in his surreal imagery.

    But he later became a brand, and he just sold himself.

    He went from being Dali to peddling Dalisms.

    By the time he did Madonna of Port Lligat, he was just rehashing his once fresh ideas into movie posters and ego-prop.

    This happens to artists when they run out of ideas… like Fellini after 8 1/2.
    He just became a marketer of Fellnisms.

  180. This sick story raises the curtain on an unimaginable case of Podestarasty.

  181. @AB Necessity
    "pizza" has been used on 4Chan for many, many years as a reference to child pornography.

    Child Pornography -> CP -> Cheese Pizza

    That actually reinforces my point if true – if the term really does have some kind of underground existence as slang or code, and it is just based on the matching letters CP, the claim that it is linked to real pizza seems like a pretty improbable coincidence.

  182. @Learning
    Aedon: I agree that the Podestas and Comet Ping Pong are creep. However, regarding the missing child in Portugal, those sketches were different views of the same guy. An number of people with children were seen that night. A problem was that the Portguese authorities initially suspected the parents. There are conspiracy blogs about her parents on Facebook. The fact that Freud had a house there is another really creep fact though.

    Investigators assumed the two sketches were of the same man, because each witness only saw one man, and they’re not that different by the standard of police sketches. Brothers often look enough alike that rough sketches of them could be mistaken for each other; but really, look at those and tell us they’re not dead ringers for the Podesta brothers.

    They match so well I was skeptical, so I tracked the originals down to an old CBS News article, to make sure they weren’t created last month by someone doing Photoshop tricks on ordinary photos of the two men. They’re the real thing.

  183. @Skeptikal
    Re "And why are some of the ‘most powerful’ people in DC such downright perverts and degenerates? "

    I thought you were going to say:
    What are the most powerful people in DC doing hanging out at this creepy pizza parlor and doing fundraising events there?
    We all know where Hillary goes for "real" money: The Saudis, Goldman Sachs, billionaires' glitzy summer compounds in the Hamptons, places like that---you know, where the money is.
    So WTF is she doing in one of these pizza joints? Why would there be any real money there?
    With creepy, tawdry "artwork" on the walls?
    Something here does not pass the smell test.

    Agreed. Often one wonders why such outrageous decisions are made in politics that clearly contradict the public good and one wonders, why? This topic goes a long way to explaining the why. I’m not so sure if the investigating of it is the hard part or the broad exposure, but it needs to happen.

    I am probably more tolerant of ‘deviates’ than most on here. Queers don’t bother me much, though I would recommend that they be more discreet and stop the promotion of their peccadilloes as normal. When it comes to children, even teenagers, I am very strict about them not being able to give consent and should be treated with respect, if not revered, by all adults with no exceptions.

    There is enough smoke here for a thorough investigation to be demanded and carried out. I hope nothing less ensues.

  184. Re “Investigators assumed the two sketches were of the same man, because each witness only saw one man, and they’re not that different by the standard of police sketches.”

    If investigators saw photos of the two Podesta brothers they would surely realize that what they had in their hands were sketches of two different men, the two brothers, each one seen by a different witness. The coincidence is infinitesimal that two sketches could come out looking like the two brothers, who, it seems, are known to have been in the area. Each one must have been carrying the child at different times. Maybe one of them “handed her off” to the other in a dark alley somewhere.

    Seriously, what other interpretation is there for this pair of sketches and this pair of brothers?

    • Replies: @Anon
    Call Podesta 'pedosta'.
    , @utu
    "who, it seems, are known to have been in the area." - Known from where?
  185. @Mom
    You are sick. You obviously have no children of your own.

    Let’s get a grip. The first two women who Weiner sexted were in their 20s. The third was 15.

    To be clear: 15 is in no way a “young child”. “Child” generally means a per-pubescent minor; whereas a “teenager” means a post-pubescent minor. Hence arguably a 15yo is not even a child, but certainly not a “young” one – a young child is, say, under 5 years old (and yes they are sexually assaulted too).

    In fact, in many countries, a 15 yo is considered mature enough to consent to sexual intercourse. In this case it was just exchange of pics, not bodily fluids.

    • Replies: @Stonehands

    Let’s get a grip....The third was 15...15 is in no way a “young child”...In fact, in many countries, a 15 yo is considered mature enough...

     

    The law will slap you in the dungeon where you belong, if you are apprehended for acting on your evil rationalizations.

    You sound like a sexpat.
    , @NoseytheDuke
    A 15 year old cannot give their consent, they are considered minors. It might be OK if the other partner is 17 or so but even 18+ is too old to be messing with a 15 year old. Any man over twenty having sexual relations with a fifteen year old is a pederast and society has too much invested in youth to allow them to be preyed upon, they need and deserve protection.
  186. @James Kabala
    Where I find that this whole thing breaks down is that the original claim was that pizza was supposed to be code for child pornography. No one originally suggested that there was any connection to actual pizza. Alefantis was dragged in only when someone decided that any reference to pizza in the e-mails, even something as normal and unremarkable as a mention of a pizza party by an actual pizza place owner, must refer to child porn. I am sure that the true believers have done some mental gymnastics/retconning and now say, "They used pizza as a code precisely because the ringleader was an actual pizzeria owner!" But that was not the original claim.

    P.S. I have now finally seen the famous "girl with her hands taped to a table." I am very underwhelmed. You do realize the kinds of silly stunts and games that kids like to do, right? The ping pong player behind her indicates that this was all in public.

    P.P.S. Is there any evidence that this "pedophile symbols" document is really from the FBI? Did anyone ever hear of these alleged symbols before last month?

    The document is apparently not on the FBI”s website, but has been released by Wikileaks as authentic.

    • Replies: @Seamus Padraig
    It was also reported in the Daily Mail back in April: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3560069/The-symbols-pedophiles-use-signal-sordid-sexual-preferences-social-media.html
  187. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Skeptikal
    Re "Investigators assumed the two sketches were of the same man, because each witness only saw one man, and they’re not that different by the standard of police sketches."

    If investigators saw photos of the two Podesta brothers they would surely realize that what they had in their hands were sketches of two different men, the two brothers, each one seen by a different witness. The coincidence is infinitesimal that two sketches could come out looking like the two brothers, who, it seems, are known to have been in the area. Each one must have been carrying the child at different times. Maybe one of them "handed her off" to the other in a dark alley somewhere.

    Seriously, what other interpretation is there for this pair of sketches and this pair of brothers?

    Call Podesta ‘pedosta’.

  188. BTW, since the investigation has been driven off 4chan now, too, here’s the address of the investigation blog: https://dcpizzagate.wordpress.com/

  189. @Wizard of Oz
    Yes it seemed a bit odd that they eere recorded as for the same guy. But that could be explained by them simply not appearing together but perhaps both being in the same coloured shorts and shirts...

    Here is an article from April 2016. It states that the two different e-fit sketches were given by an Irish couple who saw a man with a child in the area. Also I have a hard time believing even depraved upper echelon power freaks would do the actual kidnapping themselves.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/03/16/madeleine-mccann-latest-are-police-any-closer-to-knowing-the-tru/

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
    Me, too, re powerful men doing abductions.
    Wonder what the Irish couple would say if shown photos of one or both of the Podesta brothers.
  190. @Skeptikal
    Re "Investigators assumed the two sketches were of the same man, because each witness only saw one man, and they’re not that different by the standard of police sketches."

    If investigators saw photos of the two Podesta brothers they would surely realize that what they had in their hands were sketches of two different men, the two brothers, each one seen by a different witness. The coincidence is infinitesimal that two sketches could come out looking like the two brothers, who, it seems, are known to have been in the area. Each one must have been carrying the child at different times. Maybe one of them "handed her off" to the other in a dark alley somewhere.

    Seriously, what other interpretation is there for this pair of sketches and this pair of brothers?

    “who, it seems, are known to have been in the area.” – Known from where?

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
    Re "known from where," I believe, in the video linked above narrated by a young British woman, mention is made that the brothers have a friend with a villa very close by and one or both brothers were visiting at that villa. No time no to re-watch the video to check. But do watch it---hard to believe that these various "pizza" codes in the emails are on the level.
  191. @NoseytheDuke
    When we look at the immense scale of corruption in the political world it becomes much easier to understand how this can be when the spectre of blackmail is introduced. At one time homosexual blackmail was probably a potent force but now not so much, but what form of blackmail could ever be more potent than pedo-blackmail?

    Agreed. I’m old enough to remember when cheating on your wife with another woman was sufficiently scandalous to destroy careers. Now, with the culture so hypersexualized and desensitized, they have to up the ante.

  192. @Anon
    I'm not sold on the pedo-ring. Too much risk, though I think those 'elites' are a bunch of pervs.

    If anything, this pedo-issue takes our eyes off the ball.

    The real issue should be that the governing elites of this nation in government, colleges, cultural institutions, media and even military(look at those tranny freaks) are a bunch of decadents, even degenerates. We are seeing the normalization of freakery and grossness.

    The fact that it is considered NORMAL for Hillary to invite Lena Dunham to the DNC speaks for itself. The fact that Newsweek celebrated Obama with a gay 'halo' speaks for itself. The fact that churches hang 'homo flags' speaks for itself.
    It is a sick nation.

    A tolerant nation has room for decadence and even degeneracy. It belongs in the underground. They always existed.
    But now, this underground stuff is the bobo cultural fixation of the elites who consider themselves 'hip' and 'edgy'.
    And they even introduce their kids to this stuff from a young age.
    Indeed, even without overt pedophilia, introducing sexuality to kids at a very young age is a kind of indirect pedophilia.
    When homo-ness is promoted among kids, what is being done? Kids will ask 'what is homo stuff?' And an honest answer will have to be, "some guys wanna stick pee pee into poo poo". But then, the kids will have to be told THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT, and if anything, WE SHOULD BLESS THE HOMOS. But why? What is so great about pee pee in poo poo?

    We really need Culturegate. The whole culture is a rotten scandal, and the fact that US globo-imperialism spreads this filth around the world speaks volumes about how sick America has become. We don't need real pedo-rings of 'pizzagate' to accuse the elites of filth and vileness. Their cultural life is garbage.

    Just look at this: 'mainstream' culture has no problem with it. If anything, it is promoted as the New Norm.

    http://rare.us/story/lena-dunham-posts-picture-of-herself-on-the-crapper-before-declaring-herself-a-feminist-hero/

    The fact that it is considered NORMAL for Hillary to invite Lena Dunham to the DNC speaks for itself. The fact that Newsweek celebrated Obama with a gay ‘halo’ speaks for itself. The fact that churches hang ‘homo flags’ speaks for itself.
    It is a sick nation.

    Yep. I don’t have to look any further then this perv Alefantis. This is what you get when sodomy is legal. Of course this craven bastard makes all kinds of snarky degenerate comments about children on his instagram…

    Society has been desensitized to homosexuality- so they have moved on to the “prize”.

    You have hit it out of the park as usual, I enjoy and concur with your assesments.

  193. @CalDre
    Let's get a grip. The first two women who Weiner sexted were in their 20s. The third was 15.

    To be clear: 15 is in no way a "young child". "Child" generally means a per-pubescent minor; whereas a "teenager" means a post-pubescent minor. Hence arguably a 15yo is not even a child, but certainly not a "young" one - a young child is, say, under 5 years old (and yes they are sexually assaulted too).

    In fact, in many countries, a 15 yo is considered mature enough to consent to sexual intercourse. In this case it was just exchange of pics, not bodily fluids.

    Let’s get a grip….The third was 15…15 is in no way a “young child”…In fact, in many countries, a 15 yo is considered mature enough…

    The law will slap you in the dungeon where you belong, if you are apprehended for acting on your evil rationalizations.

    You sound like a sexpat.

    • Replies: @CalDre
    Using proper English neither makes me evil nor a sexpat. You, on the other hand, are an emotional zealot with an overpowered, under-performing intellect.
  194. @Sandy Berger's Socks
    How many members of the media political class, that are dismissing this as fake news have enjoyed "pizza" at Besta or at a similar place?

    What if criminal deviancy rather than disqualifying a person, is not instead some weird prerequisite for elite status? Don't have to worry about rock throwers if they're inside the same glass house.

    Blackmail seems as good an explanation as any for things like John Roberts sudden change of heart on the constitutionality of the Obama care mandate.

    Disclaimer: This is not an endorsement of Texe Marrs or his views, but, I think, he is pretty much right on the money on this one.

    Blackmail seems as good an explanation as any for things like John Roberts sudden change of heart on the constitutionality of the Obama care mandate.

    John Roberts is a devout Catholic and most likely a loyal papal servant. The Vatican favors universal health care, because it benefits its flock, especially less well-off Hispanic-Americans.

    While the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops opposed the Affordable Care Act over its contraception and abortion coverage, the Catholic Health Association broke rank and consistently supported the law for making practical progress on helping working-class families and the poor. Obama even gave CHA president Sister Carol Keehan one of the 21 pens he used to sign the bill into law in 2010. [...]
    The Catholic Church in the United States supports a universal health care law that both protects the poor and the Church’s right to practice its faith without undue interference from the federal government. The President needs to convince the Catholic Church that’s exactly what Obamacare does.

    http://time.com/3914116/barack-obama-catholics-health/

    Universal socialized healthcare has long been the goal of the Vatican and its Secret Societies. So when U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts single-handedly forced United States citizens to accept President Obama’s unsavory and heavily socialist “ObamaCare” legislation with his deciding (5-4) vote, the American judge, a devout Roman Catholic, won the immediate acclaim of his brothers in such secretive and infamous groups as the Knights of Malta and Opus Dei. [...]

    Immediately after casting his vote and writing the majority opinion on ObamaCare, John Roberts told the Washington, D.C. press corps that, to escape the furor and controversy that erupted, he was heading to an “impregnable fortress to escape.” Roberts choice of words was carefully coded with secret and embedded meaning.

    That impregnable fortress, as it turns out, was to the Mediterranean island of Malta, the unofficial citadel of the papacy’s Knights of Malta. It was to Malta where, after their stunning defeat in Jerusalem, the Knights and crusaders had retreated to what they referred to as their “impregnable fortress.”

    http://www.texemarrs.com/072012/roberts_lauded_by_knights_of_malta.htm

    Here a read that might be of interest to Unz Review readers, in regards to this article and discussion:

    Fr. Marcial Maciel, Pedophile, Psychopath, and Legion of Christ Founder, From R.J. Neuhaus to Benedict XVI, 2nd Ed.: Richard J. Neuhaus Duped by the Legion of Christ revised and augmentedhttps://www.amazon.com/Marcial-Pedophile-Psychopath-Founder-Benedict/dp/1475215797

  195. @CalDre
    Let's get a grip. The first two women who Weiner sexted were in their 20s. The third was 15.

    To be clear: 15 is in no way a "young child". "Child" generally means a per-pubescent minor; whereas a "teenager" means a post-pubescent minor. Hence arguably a 15yo is not even a child, but certainly not a "young" one - a young child is, say, under 5 years old (and yes they are sexually assaulted too).

    In fact, in many countries, a 15 yo is considered mature enough to consent to sexual intercourse. In this case it was just exchange of pics, not bodily fluids.

    A 15 year old cannot give their consent, they are considered minors. It might be OK if the other partner is 17 or so but even 18+ is too old to be messing with a 15 year old. Any man over twenty having sexual relations with a fifteen year old is a pederast and society has too much invested in youth to allow them to be preyed upon, they need and deserve protection.

    • Replies: @BB753
    Let me get this, fifteen year olds need to be protected from society but them having sex between themselves is fine and dandy?
    In this day and age, when teenagers are fully sexually active, you have to protect them from themselves.
    , @CalDre
    In the US that is true, though many states have an age of consent of 16 (e.g., Alabama, plus many others), regardless of the age of the partner; 16 is not so gravely different from 15. And in Europe 14 and 15 is common as an age of consent (used to be 13 in Spain but was recently increased to 16). http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/what-age-consent-around-world-2802173

    Some countries are as low as 12.

    In any case, my point was 15 is not a "young child" as a matter of the English language.

    , @Wizard of Oz
    Is commenter "NosytheDuke" the same as "NoseytheDuke"?

    If so, why the change?

    If not, why the impersonation?
  196. I just recently came across an article relating to the Today show and Ashton Kutcher. The headline read, Ashton Kutcher saves 6000 sex trafficked women and children. Or something like that. He apperantly started THORN, which finds sex traffickers online. I’m sorry, but, these numbers seem exaggerated. Also, he claims that 6000 traffickers were arrested. Another thing I find extremely difficult to believe.

  197. @NoseytheDuke
    A 15 year old cannot give their consent, they are considered minors. It might be OK if the other partner is 17 or so but even 18+ is too old to be messing with a 15 year old. Any man over twenty having sexual relations with a fifteen year old is a pederast and society has too much invested in youth to allow them to be preyed upon, they need and deserve protection.

    Let me get this, fifteen year olds need to be protected from society but them having sex between themselves is fine and dandy?
    In this day and age, when teenagers are fully sexually active, you have to protect them from themselves.

  198. @Learning
    Here is an article from April 2016. It states that the two different e-fit sketches were given by an Irish couple who saw a man with a child in the area. Also I have a hard time believing even depraved upper echelon power freaks would do the actual kidnapping themselves.


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/03/16/madeleine-mccann-latest-are-police-any-closer-to-knowing-the-tru/

    Me, too, re powerful men doing abductions.
    Wonder what the Irish couple would say if shown photos of one or both of the Podesta brothers.

  199. @utu
    "who, it seems, are known to have been in the area." - Known from where?

    Re “known from where,” I believe, in the video linked above narrated by a young British woman, mention is made that the brothers have a friend with a villa very close by and one or both brothers were visiting at that villa. No time no to re-watch the video to check. But do watch it—hard to believe that these various “pizza” codes in the emails are on the level.

  200. I believe I saw the instagram account of Alefantis before it came down. The girl pictured in several images seems to be the child of a family friend. I thought the taped to the table image and the other pic with #chickenlover tag were at a minimum indicators of a dark humor or innuendo. Who finds this sort of thing funny?
    There were more pics of infants and a doll with creepy tags like #hoetard and suggestive comments, again, indicating a level of casual comfort with making implied references to pedophilia. ..wink wink.

    Gross, at a minimum. But evidence of a ring? I don’t understand why Alefantis doesn’t just acknowledge that there is an “appearance” of sick humor.

    Regarding the use of supposedly known pedo symbols- I’m skeptical. These are shapes and motifs we see everywhere. It could be that the pedo symbol inventors purposely chose designs that would easily coincide with innocent use so as to hide in plain sight. Or…hmm…?

    Podesta is definitely using code in his emails but my read was that he’s talking about drugs and partying. Didn’t we all use “pizza” at one time or another as a reference to party favors back in the day?

    The Podestas have bad taste in art. Not a crime, just a general indicator of regular degenerately “hip” tastes so as to impress the cool kids?

    And yet no one clears the air. And this is disturbing. I have yet to read one Wapo or nyt article denouncing the “witch hunt” but acknowledging that, yes, it looks bad. Because it really does.

    Incidentally, if they haven’t been faked, one of Alefantis’ instagram commenters is the maker of child sized coffin coffee tables. Nice.

  201. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Anon
    Why are you calling me a snob? What do you dislike about the Madonna of Port Lligat? What is good art in your opinion?
    You compared a man with talent to a man with no talent. What are you trying to say?

    If a man paints, he can be evaluated as a painter. PJS is a bad painter. What he had was a vivid if weird imagination. Most critics are either dimwits or clockpunchers; so what? I didn't cite any, you did (Orwell). Please support your opinion if you are going to call us all snobs. Che G. suggested that you are the snob here and I begin to agree with him.

    Incidentally PJS illustrates the point your various interlocutors are making. His Jordanovitch stuff is seriously bizarre. If it were analyzed by someone with pretensions to psychology, it would reveal a seriously twisted soul. In fact, his stuff is rather more nightmarish than the vast majority of Dali.

    Yet he was a perfectly normal fellow; he used the imagery of absurdity and degradation to make a joke. Dali did the same thing, but he used it to build a reputation. Critics are stupid or lazy, as I said above, and Dali gamed them. Don't let him get you too.

    An interesting point is that Dali (in his real work, not the <expletive> designed for dumbos) seems to improve spiritually with time.

    As far as I can see the only point is that you don't like Dali. That's okay. Some people are so benighted as not to like Vermeer. Many people don't like Giotto.

    But Che G. and myself know of which we speak, so don't go calling us snobs.

    Don't know about Churchill but Hitler was actually pretty decent (artist, not human being). No genius (unlike Dali) but quite capable.

    “Don’t know about Churchill but Hitler was actually pretty decent (artist, not human being).”

    Churchill was much a better writer than Hitler was a painter.

    • Replies: @utu
    “Don’t know about Churchill but Hitler was actually pretty decent (artist, not human being).”

    Churchill was much a better writer than Hitler was a painter.
    --------

    Hitler was much better soldier than Churchill was a sailor.
  202. @utu
    50,000 - No way.

    "Weiner’s sexting of young children" - what do you mean by young children? 13, 14 years old is young?

    If you were a 13 year old boy(or girl)no,they wouldn’t be young.
    To an adult,they are children.

  203. @Anon
    "Don’t know about Churchill but Hitler was actually pretty decent (artist, not human being)."

    Churchill was much a better writer than Hitler was a painter.

    “Don’t know about Churchill but Hitler was actually pretty decent (artist, not human being).”

    Churchill was much a better writer than Hitler was a painter.
    ——–

    Hitler was much better soldier than Churchill was a sailor.

  204. @Anon
    I'm not dismissing anything here, but as for

    That’s why when it got publicised, Besta’s management immediately deleted the old one and converted to a new, BLogo-free symbol on all their website and printed materials.
     
    if you found out your business logo (a triangular Greek key pattern) was used as a signaling device by pedophiles, wouldn't you change it? I, like, probably, most readers, had certainly never heard of this symbol until today.

    By the way, Besta Pizza is the worst pizzeria name I've heard in a long time. The owners evidently have horrible taste or are more than a little clueless.

    Just playing advocatus diaboli, here.

    We gotta da besta pizza here!Italian American immigrant slang.(or slur,depending on ownerships ethnicity)

  205. @Stonehands

    Let’s get a grip....The third was 15...15 is in no way a “young child”...In fact, in many countries, a 15 yo is considered mature enough...

     

    The law will slap you in the dungeon where you belong, if you are apprehended for acting on your evil rationalizations.

    You sound like a sexpat.

    Using proper English neither makes me evil nor a sexpat. You, on the other hand, are an emotional zealot with an overpowered, under-performing intellect.

    • Agree: Stephen R. Diamond
    • Replies: @Stonehands
    If protecting my under- age daughter from the likes of YOU is zealotry, then so be it.

    An intellect is worthless without a strong backbone.
    , @landlubber
    The unz.com comment section is full of such zealots, and a borderline hysterical article like the one above brings out the worst in them.
  206. @NoseytheDuke
    A 15 year old cannot give their consent, they are considered minors. It might be OK if the other partner is 17 or so but even 18+ is too old to be messing with a 15 year old. Any man over twenty having sexual relations with a fifteen year old is a pederast and society has too much invested in youth to allow them to be preyed upon, they need and deserve protection.

    In the US that is true, though many states have an age of consent of 16 (e.g., Alabama, plus many others), regardless of the age of the partner; 16 is not so gravely different from 15. And in Europe 14 and 15 is common as an age of consent (used to be 13 in Spain but was recently increased to 16). http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/what-age-consent-around-world-2802173

    Some countries are as low as 12.

    In any case, my point was 15 is not a “young child” as a matter of the English language.

    • Replies: @FKA Max
    I just had a long and pretty testy exchange about this topic here at the Unz Review. Mindlessly throwing around the accusation/label of 'pedophile/psychopaths,' is very unhelpful and disingenuous; just like calling everybody one disagrees with a 'Neo-Nazi,' is. After a while the real pedophiles/psychopaths and real Neo-Nazis cannot be distinguished from the 'fake' ones anymore.

    So, according to his diaries, he had sex with a 16-year-old, while aged 28, and others that he described as “boys” (which can be a broad term for ages).

    I don’t know if the age of consent has changed recently in Italy (which I assumed is the Etna referred to), but it is currently 14 years old, so if he did that today, he would not be committing a crime.

    Judging historical figures’ behaviour by today’s/local social mores is often tricky. (Somehow, I don’t think he would have written it in his diary if he knew, a century later, the semantics would be debated in public.)
     
    - http://www.unz.com/article/npis-spencer-vs-politcos-hirsh-etc/#comment-1671081

    You should choose your words and sources more carefully. Don’t put your trust in the plutocrat-Koch-Bros.-controlled Tea Party or Alt Lite Infowars conspiracy theorists.

    Many of your own ancestors might be considered ‘pedophiles’ by today’s standards [emphasis added] [...]

    In the United States in the 1890s, several states had an age of consent as low as 10. In 1895, the age of consent in Delaware was 7, according to an article in The New York Times.[31]

     

    – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent_reform#United_States
    [...]
    Don’t participate in witch hunts, either.

     

    - http://www.unz.com/article/npis-spencer-vs-politcos-hirsh-etc/#comment-1671520

    No, I am not a homosexualist, bisexualist, and I do not condone pedophilia in any way.

    I am just highly allergic to BS!

    Left-wing BS, right-wing BS, political correctness, etc. Lies, hypocrisy, etc., generally give [me] hives.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/article/npis-spencer-vs-politcos-hirsh-etc/#comment-1672029

    Here a good read on the topic, just recently published:

    American Child Bride

    A History of Minors and Marriage in the United States


    By Nicholas L. Syrett [Published: October 2016]

    Most in the United States likely associate the concept of the child bride with the mores and practices of the distant past. But Nicholas L. Syrett challenges this assumption in his sweeping and sometimes shocking history of youthful marriage in America. Focusing on young women and girls--the most common underage spouses--Syrett tracks the marital history of American minors from the colonial period to the present, chronicling the debates and moral panics related to these unions.

    Although the frequency of child marriages has declined since the early twentieth century, Syrett reveals that the practice was historically far more widespread in the United States than is commonly thought. It also continues to this day: current estimates indicate that 9 percent of living American women were married before turning eighteen.

    By examining the legal and social forces that have worked to curtail early marriage in America--including the efforts of women's rights activists, advocates for children's rights, and social workers--Syrett sheds new light on the American public's perceptions of young people marrying and the ways that individuals and communities challenged the complex legalities and cultural norms brought to the fore when underage citizens, by choice or coercion, became husband and wife.
     
    - http://uncpress.unc.edu/browse/book_detail?title_id=3795
  207. @CalDre
    Using proper English neither makes me evil nor a sexpat. You, on the other hand, are an emotional zealot with an overpowered, under-performing intellect.

    If protecting my under- age daughter from the likes of YOU is zealotry, then so be it.

    An intellect is worthless without a strong backbone.

    • Replies: @CalDre
    I'm not sexually interested in minors under any countries' definition (the highest is 21). But your need to engage in ad hominem attacks shows not a backbone, but rather immaturity, disrespect and instability. I feel sorry for your daughter, not just for your profound character flaws and illogic, but from you inability to supervise her properly.

    Incidentally, the way you protect your daughter is by raising her properly and not letting her go out alone, as is done in the Muslim countries so many on here decry as "sexist" and "barbarian" (if you let your daughter go to a "friend's party" until midnight on Saturday night, for example, you are fully responsible if she has sex). It's similar to how you care for a female dog - it's pointless to blame the male dogs for mating, the proper strategy is not to permit unaccompanied contact with male dogs. Same goes for daughters. But most people are too lazy to watch their children so they resort to the sort of puerile, ignorant and wrong-headed attacks as you do against me.
  208. @CalDre
    Using proper English neither makes me evil nor a sexpat. You, on the other hand, are an emotional zealot with an overpowered, under-performing intellect.

    The unz.com comment section is full of such zealots, and a borderline hysterical article like the one above brings out the worst in them.

  209. @CalDre
    In the US that is true, though many states have an age of consent of 16 (e.g., Alabama, plus many others), regardless of the age of the partner; 16 is not so gravely different from 15. And in Europe 14 and 15 is common as an age of consent (used to be 13 in Spain but was recently increased to 16). http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/what-age-consent-around-world-2802173

    Some countries are as low as 12.

    In any case, my point was 15 is not a "young child" as a matter of the English language.

    I just had a long and pretty testy exchange about this topic here at the Unz Review. Mindlessly throwing around the accusation/label of ‘pedophile/psychopaths,’ is very unhelpful and disingenuous; just like calling everybody one disagrees with a ‘Neo-Nazi,’ is. After a while the real pedophiles/psychopaths and real Neo-Nazis cannot be distinguished from the ‘fake’ ones anymore.

    So, according to his diaries, he had sex with a 16-year-old, while aged 28, and others that he described as “boys” (which can be a broad term for ages).

    I don’t know if the age of consent has changed recently in Italy (which I assumed is the Etna referred to), but it is currently 14 years old, so if he did that today, he would not be committing a crime.

    Judging historical figures’ behaviour by today’s/local social mores is often tricky. (Somehow, I don’t think he would have written it in his diary if he knew, a century later, the semantics would be debated in public.)

    http://www.unz.com/article/npis-spencer-vs-politcos-hirsh-etc/#comment-1671081

    You should choose your words and sources more carefully. Don’t put your trust in the plutocrat-Koch-Bros.-controlled Tea Party or Alt Lite Infowars conspiracy theorists.

    Many of your own ancestors might be considered ‘pedophiles’ by today’s standards [emphasis added] [...]

    In the United States in the 1890s, several states had an age of consent as low as 10. In 1895, the age of consent in Delaware was 7, according to an article in The New York Times.[31]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent_reform#United_States
    [...]
    Don’t participate in witch hunts, either.

    http://www.unz.com/article/npis-spencer-vs-politcos-hirsh-etc/#comment-1671520

    No, I am not a homosexualist, bisexualist, and I do not condone pedophilia in any way.

    I am just highly allergic to BS!

    Left-wing BS, right-wing BS, political correctness, etc. Lies, hypocrisy, etc., generally give [me] hives.

    http://www.unz.com/article/npis-spencer-vs-politcos-hirsh-etc/#comment-1672029

    Here a good read on the topic, just recently published:

    American Child Bride

    A History of Minors and Marriage in the United States

    By Nicholas L. Syrett [Published: October 2016]

    Most in the United States likely associate the concept of the child bride with the mores and practices of the distant past. But Nicholas L. Syrett challenges this assumption in his sweeping and sometimes shocking history of youthful marriage in America. Focusing on young women and girls–the most common underage spouses–Syrett tracks the marital history of American minors from the colonial period to the present, chronicling the debates and moral panics related to these unions.

    Although the frequency of child marriages has declined since the early twentieth century, Syrett reveals that the practice was historically far more widespread in the United States than is commonly thought. It also continues to this day: current estimates indicate that 9 percent of living American women were married before turning eighteen.

    By examining the legal and social forces that have worked to curtail early marriage in America–including the efforts of women’s rights activists, advocates for children’s rights, and social workers–Syrett sheds new light on the American public’s perceptions of young people marrying and the ways that individuals and communities challenged the complex legalities and cultural norms brought to the fore when underage citizens, by choice or coercion, became husband and wife.

    http://uncpress.unc.edu/browse/book_detail?title_id=3795

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
    Re child bride, of course everyone remembers Jerry Lee Lewis, right?
    Oh, they don't????
    , @FKA Max
    There is a rather informative article in the WaPo about Pizzagate and its potential (mass-)psychological origins. It actually indirectly and temporarily ``blames'' over-zealous feminists with being the originators of the this moral panic. Quite interesting, but of course the article/author reverts back to Trump-bashing, etc. in the end.

    What the Pizzagate conspiracy theory borrows from a bogus satanic sex panic of the 1980s


    Second, in both cases, social movements were involved in the weaponization of suspicion, although the political center of gravity has shifted from one episode to the next. In the late 1970s, social workers and feminist activists had focused on combating child sexual abuse; they sometimes developed extremely broad definitions of abuse or floated exaggerated estimates of its occurrence in this quest. Such efforts have left deep cultural residues, and these include the acceptance of exaggerated claims about the number of child trafficking victims, and the incidence and forms of organized child sexual abuse. Pizzagate relies on these inflated fears to seem plausible, and it similarly relies on a viewpoint marked by extreme suspicion (of the media, Washington “elites,” politicians and the Clinton camp specifically) to decode ordinary events and statements into extraordinary claims.
     
    - https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/12/08/the-satanic-roots-of-pizzagate-how-a-30-year-old-sex-panic-explains-today/

    A moral panic is a feeling of fear spread among a large number of people that some evil threatens the well-being of society.[1][2] A Dictionary of Sociology defines a moral panic as "the process of arousing social concern over an issue – usually the work of moral entrepreneurs and the mass media."[3] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_panic

    I had never come across the term ``moral entrepreneur'' before, very useful term... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_entrepreneur

  210. @Sandy Berger's Socks
    How many members of the media political class, that are dismissing this as fake news have enjoyed "pizza" at Besta or at a similar place?

    What if criminal deviancy rather than disqualifying a person, is not instead some weird prerequisite for elite status? Don't have to worry about rock throwers if they're inside the same glass house.

    Blackmail seems as good an explanation as any for things like John Roberts sudden change of heart on the constitutionality of the Obama care mandate.

    “What if criminal deviancy rather than disqualifying a person, is not instead some weird prerequisite for elite status? Don’t have to worry about rock throwers if they’re inside the same glass house.Blackmail seems as good an explanation as any for things like John Roberts sudden change of heart on the constitutionality of the Obama care mandate.”

    This fits Occam’s Razor. I would go so far as to say that pedophilia blackmail appears to have been a method of political control since the days of the British Empire. Much like gang membership, participation is required for entrance into the inner circles of political power, then used as blackmail to enforce conformity and secrecy.

    Interestingly, there is a recent episode of “The Black Mirror,” a Netflix show, that addresses this very psychology.

  211. @James Kabala
    Actually the logo issue is a prominent part of this Washington Post article (and a tweet by the fairly well-known Dave Weigel highlighted that part in particular):

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/were-going-to-put-a-bullet-in-your-head-pizzagate-threats-terrorize-dc-shop-owners/2016/12/05/39469a82-bb2e-11e6-94ac-3d324840106c_story.html?utm_term=.af2e34c09164

    The “explanation” was that the logo was a piece of pizza. Sounds like a convenient excuse. It looks a helluva lot like the pedo logo and not like a pizza slice at all.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
    The triangle is an established symbol for homosexuality, going back at least to the badges that identified homosexuals in the concentration camps. I am surprised that AFAIK no one has twigged to this as yet in the pizza context. Triangles were used also for other groups (different colors), but it seems to have "stuck" in the case of homosexuals.

    "Originally intended as a badge of shame, the pink triangle (often inverted from its Nazi usage) has been reclaimed as an international symbol of gay pride and the gay rights movement, and is second in popularity only to the rainbow flag"

    The pizza slice is so convenient---it might even explain the choice of a pizza joint as a cover.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_triangle

    Bugsy Malone's speakeasy's cover business was an Italian deli. Wonder whether there could be a mafia/mob connection in pedophile rings. The mob gets in everywhere there is potential to make money and also do extortions and blackmailing . . . The Mob is also very quick to spot new profitable opportunities in vileness and human weakness.
  212. @Stonehands
    If protecting my under- age daughter from the likes of YOU is zealotry, then so be it.

    An intellect is worthless without a strong backbone.

    I’m not sexually interested in minors under any countries’ definition (the highest is 21). But your need to engage in ad hominem attacks shows not a backbone, but rather immaturity, disrespect and instability. I feel sorry for your daughter, not just for your profound character flaws and illogic, but from you inability to supervise her properly.

    Incidentally, the way you protect your daughter is by raising her properly and not letting her go out alone, as is done in the Muslim countries so many on here decry as “sexist” and “barbarian” (if you let your daughter go to a “friend’s party” until midnight on Saturday night, for example, you are fully responsible if she has sex). It’s similar to how you care for a female dog – it’s pointless to blame the male dogs for mating, the proper strategy is not to permit unaccompanied contact with male dogs. Same goes for daughters. But most people are too lazy to watch their children so they resort to the sort of puerile, ignorant and wrong-headed attacks as you do against me.

    • Replies: @Stonehands
    Hey, Cal- I initially responded to you for what I perceived as a half- baked defense of A. Wiener.

    I think that we can agree that this guy is a poster child for the lack of mores and ethics in politics.
  213. @FKA Max
    I just had a long and pretty testy exchange about this topic here at the Unz Review. Mindlessly throwing around the accusation/label of 'pedophile/psychopaths,' is very unhelpful and disingenuous; just like calling everybody one disagrees with a 'Neo-Nazi,' is. After a while the real pedophiles/psychopaths and real Neo-Nazis cannot be distinguished from the 'fake' ones anymore.

    So, according to his diaries, he had sex with a 16-year-old, while aged 28, and others that he described as “boys” (which can be a broad term for ages).

    I don’t know if the age of consent has changed recently in Italy (which I assumed is the Etna referred to), but it is currently 14 years old, so if he did that today, he would not be committing a crime.

    Judging historical figures’ behaviour by today’s/local social mores is often tricky. (Somehow, I don’t think he would have written it in his diary if he knew, a century later, the semantics would be debated in public.)
     
    - http://www.unz.com/article/npis-spencer-vs-politcos-hirsh-etc/#comment-1671081

    You should choose your words and sources more carefully. Don’t put your trust in the plutocrat-Koch-Bros.-controlled Tea Party or Alt Lite Infowars conspiracy theorists.

    Many of your own ancestors might be considered ‘pedophiles’ by today’s standards [emphasis added] [...]

    In the United States in the 1890s, several states had an age of consent as low as 10. In 1895, the age of consent in Delaware was 7, according to an article in The New York Times.[31]

     

    – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent_reform#United_States
    [...]
    Don’t participate in witch hunts, either.

     

    - http://www.unz.com/article/npis-spencer-vs-politcos-hirsh-etc/#comment-1671520

    No, I am not a homosexualist, bisexualist, and I do not condone pedophilia in any way.

    I am just highly allergic to BS!

    Left-wing BS, right-wing BS, political correctness, etc. Lies, hypocrisy, etc., generally give [me] hives.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/article/npis-spencer-vs-politcos-hirsh-etc/#comment-1672029

    Here a good read on the topic, just recently published:

    American Child Bride

    A History of Minors and Marriage in the United States


    By Nicholas L. Syrett [Published: October 2016]

    Most in the United States likely associate the concept of the child bride with the mores and practices of the distant past. But Nicholas L. Syrett challenges this assumption in his sweeping and sometimes shocking history of youthful marriage in America. Focusing on young women and girls--the most common underage spouses--Syrett tracks the marital history of American minors from the colonial period to the present, chronicling the debates and moral panics related to these unions.

    Although the frequency of child marriages has declined since the early twentieth century, Syrett reveals that the practice was historically far more widespread in the United States than is commonly thought. It also continues to this day: current estimates indicate that 9 percent of living American women were married before turning eighteen.

    By examining the legal and social forces that have worked to curtail early marriage in America--including the efforts of women's rights activists, advocates for children's rights, and social workers--Syrett sheds new light on the American public's perceptions of young people marrying and the ways that individuals and communities challenged the complex legalities and cultural norms brought to the fore when underage citizens, by choice or coercion, became husband and wife.
     
    - http://uncpress.unc.edu/browse/book_detail?title_id=3795

    Re child bride, of course everyone remembers Jerry Lee Lewis, right?
    Oh, they don’t????

  214. @The Scalpel
    The "explanation" was that the logo was a piece of pizza. Sounds like a convenient excuse. It looks a helluva lot like the pedo logo and not like a pizza slice at all.

    The triangle is an established symbol for homosexuality, going back at least to the badges that identified homosexuals in the concentration camps. I am surprised that AFAIK no one has twigged to this as yet in the pizza context. Triangles were used also for other groups (different colors), but it seems to have “stuck” in the case of homosexuals.

    “Originally intended as a badge of shame, the pink triangle (often inverted from its Nazi usage) has been reclaimed as an international symbol of gay pride and the gay rights movement, and is second in popularity only to the rainbow flag”

    The pizza slice is so convenient—it might even explain the choice of a pizza joint as a cover.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_triangle

    Bugsy Malone’s speakeasy’s cover business was an Italian deli. Wonder whether there could be a mafia/mob connection in pedophile rings. The mob gets in everywhere there is potential to make money and also do extortions and blackmailing . . . The Mob is also very quick to spot new profitable opportunities in vileness and human weakness.

    • Replies: @James Kabala
    Just so it is clear to all - this logo belongs/belonged to a different pizza place down the street from Comet Ping Pong. The owner is one Abdel Hammad, who despite his obvious ethnic and religious background claims to have voted for Donald Trump! I have not heard any information one way or another about his sexual orientation.
  215. @NoseytheDuke
    A 15 year old cannot give their consent, they are considered minors. It might be OK if the other partner is 17 or so but even 18+ is too old to be messing with a 15 year old. Any man over twenty having sexual relations with a fifteen year old is a pederast and society has too much invested in youth to allow them to be preyed upon, they need and deserve protection.

    Is commenter “NosytheDuke” the same as “NoseytheDuke”?

    If so, why the change?

    If not, why the impersonation?

  216. @CalDre
    I'm not sexually interested in minors under any countries' definition (the highest is 21). But your need to engage in ad hominem attacks shows not a backbone, but rather immaturity, disrespect and instability. I feel sorry for your daughter, not just for your profound character flaws and illogic, but from you inability to supervise her properly.

    Incidentally, the way you protect your daughter is by raising her properly and not letting her go out alone, as is done in the Muslim countries so many on here decry as "sexist" and "barbarian" (if you let your daughter go to a "friend's party" until midnight on Saturday night, for example, you are fully responsible if she has sex). It's similar to how you care for a female dog - it's pointless to blame the male dogs for mating, the proper strategy is not to permit unaccompanied contact with male dogs. Same goes for daughters. But most people are too lazy to watch their children so they resort to the sort of puerile, ignorant and wrong-headed attacks as you do against me.

    Hey, Cal- I initially responded to you for what I perceived as a half- baked defense of A. Wiener.

    I think that we can agree that this guy is a poster child for the lack of mores and ethics in politics.

    • Replies: @CalDre
    Got it. Frankly I don't see the problem with Wiener's actions. He sent soft porn pics to a willing 15-yo with unrestricted Internet access. As you know, any 8-yo with unrestricted internet access can trivially watch the most degenerate sexual depravity anyone has ever imagined (aside from child porn) for free in high def. Even a Google image search for "penis" (or many other terms) will reveal far more than Weiner's (hahaha) pics did.

    Again, I would blame the parents - why did this teen have unrestricted internet access? There will always be one creep, perhaps even living in another country or on the dark web, there is no way to hold the world responsible, but in any event, you are responsible for your kids. Period.
  217. @Skeptikal
    The triangle is an established symbol for homosexuality, going back at least to the badges that identified homosexuals in the concentration camps. I am surprised that AFAIK no one has twigged to this as yet in the pizza context. Triangles were used also for other groups (different colors), but it seems to have "stuck" in the case of homosexuals.

    "Originally intended as a badge of shame, the pink triangle (often inverted from its Nazi usage) has been reclaimed as an international symbol of gay pride and the gay rights movement, and is second in popularity only to the rainbow flag"

    The pizza slice is so convenient---it might even explain the choice of a pizza joint as a cover.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_triangle

    Bugsy Malone's speakeasy's cover business was an Italian deli. Wonder whether there could be a mafia/mob connection in pedophile rings. The mob gets in everywhere there is potential to make money and also do extortions and blackmailing . . . The Mob is also very quick to spot new profitable opportunities in vileness and human weakness.

    Just so it is clear to all – this logo belongs/belonged to a different pizza place down the street from Comet Ping Pong. The owner is one Abdel Hammad, who despite his obvious ethnic and religious background claims to have voted for Donald Trump! I have not heard any information one way or another about his sexual orientation.

  218. @Stonehands
    Hey, Cal- I initially responded to you for what I perceived as a half- baked defense of A. Wiener.

    I think that we can agree that this guy is a poster child for the lack of mores and ethics in politics.

    Got it. Frankly I don’t see the problem with Wiener’s actions. He sent soft porn pics to a willing 15-yo with unrestricted Internet access. As you know, any 8-yo with unrestricted internet access can trivially watch the most degenerate sexual depravity anyone has ever imagined (aside from child porn) for free in high def. Even a Google image search for “penis” (or many other terms) will reveal far more than Weiner’s (hahaha) pics did.

    Again, I would blame the parents – why did this teen have unrestricted internet access? There will always be one creep, perhaps even living in another country or on the dark web, there is no way to hold the world responsible, but in any event, you are responsible for your kids. Period.

    • Replies: @Stonehands

    Frankly I don’t see the problem with Wiener’s actions. He sent soft porn pics to a willing 15-yo with unrestricted Internet access...
     
    Regardless of the "lapse" in parental supervision, Wiener violated the law in the worst possible manner- the corruption of the morals of a child.

    Matthew 18:6
    “But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.


    How we treat children matters to God.

    , @landlubber
    Stoneheads like Stonehands will never understand this. They will always find a boogieman upon which they can project their own fears and failings.
  219. @CalDre
    Got it. Frankly I don't see the problem with Wiener's actions. He sent soft porn pics to a willing 15-yo with unrestricted Internet access. As you know, any 8-yo with unrestricted internet access can trivially watch the most degenerate sexual depravity anyone has ever imagined (aside from child porn) for free in high def. Even a Google image search for "penis" (or many other terms) will reveal far more than Weiner's (hahaha) pics did.

    Again, I would blame the parents - why did this teen have unrestricted internet access? There will always be one creep, perhaps even living in another country or on the dark web, there is no way to hold the world responsible, but in any event, you are responsible for your kids. Period.

    Frankly I don’t see the problem with Wiener’s actions. He sent soft porn pics to a willing 15-yo with unrestricted Internet access…

    Regardless of the “lapse” in parental supervision, Wiener violated the law in the worst possible manner- the corruption of the morals of a child.

    Matthew 18:6
    “But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

    How we treat children matters to God.

    • Replies: @BucephalusXYZ
    Wiener was engaged in moral corruption, by all means. I agree with the general thrust of your comment.
    But calling a 15 year old a "child" is simply misleading, and wrong. Legally, she may be a child. But even if Anthony Wiener deserves the bulk of the blame, I find grounds to criticize both her and her parents.
    Sending "soft porn" to a 15 year old is not remotely as bad as sending "soft porn" to an 8 year old, and even that is not as bad as some other things that humans actually do. (It is still very bad, but facts matter.)

    Sentimentalizing the innocence of teenagers does not help them in developing a conscience.

    That said, I really do agree with your overall point.
  220. @No_0ne
    Strangely enough, someone with exactly the same name as the individual with a gun arrested at Comet Ping Pong, Edgar Maddison Welch (extra "d" and all), has a listing on IMDB. He's an actor:

    https://archive.is/VgKcj

    Do bear in mind that IMDb is user-generated information. Anyone can plant a false entry. Just sayin’…

  221. @CalDre
    Got it. Frankly I don't see the problem with Wiener's actions. He sent soft porn pics to a willing 15-yo with unrestricted Internet access. As you know, any 8-yo with unrestricted internet access can trivially watch the most degenerate sexual depravity anyone has ever imagined (aside from child porn) for free in high def. Even a Google image search for "penis" (or many other terms) will reveal far more than Weiner's (hahaha) pics did.

    Again, I would blame the parents - why did this teen have unrestricted internet access? There will always be one creep, perhaps even living in another country or on the dark web, there is no way to hold the world responsible, but in any event, you are responsible for your kids. Period.

    Stoneheads like Stonehands will never understand this. They will always find a boogieman upon which they can project their own fears and failings.

    • Replies: @Stonehands
    And you just keep whistling past the graveyard as our nation collapses into a homo/pedo dung heap.
  222. @Stonehands

    Frankly I don’t see the problem with Wiener’s actions. He sent soft porn pics to a willing 15-yo with unrestricted Internet access...
     
    Regardless of the "lapse" in parental supervision, Wiener violated the law in the worst possible manner- the corruption of the morals of a child.

    Matthew 18:6
    “But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.


    How we treat children matters to God.

    Wiener was engaged in moral corruption, by all means. I agree with the general thrust of your comment.
    But calling a 15 year old a “child” is simply misleading, and wrong. Legally, she may be a child. But even if Anthony Wiener deserves the bulk of the blame, I find grounds to criticize both her and her parents.
    Sending “soft porn” to a 15 year old is not remotely as bad as sending “soft porn” to an 8 year old, and even that is not as bad as some other things that humans actually do. (It is still very bad, but facts matter.)

    Sentimentalizing the innocence of teenagers does not help them in developing a conscience.

    That said, I really do agree with your overall point.

  223. @landlubber
    Stoneheads like Stonehands will never understand this. They will always find a boogieman upon which they can project their own fears and failings.

    And you just keep whistling past the graveyard as our nation collapses into a homo/pedo dung heap.

  224. Does anyone else get the feeling that the overt promotion of LGBT lifestyles is the thin edge of a social engineering wedge which will eventually widen to include paedophilia? I do, and one also gets the feeling that Pizzagate may become the anvil on which the limits to the whole “Sexual Lifestyles” meme are forged.

    I also wish to join those above in saluting Mr. Unz.
    My hat is off to you, Mr. Unz for giving space to this subject on your website.
    If the Donald ever gets to really draining the swamp, he’ll find some pretty vile creatures dwelling in the bottom ooze. Exposing them in public trial would be even better than a Truth Commission .

    The prosecutor should demand a life sentence. Over time, say 30 minutes, sharing a cell with a couple of 300lb Lifers should lern-em-a-lesn about victimhood.

  225. @Wizard of Oz
    If you can confuse Rotherham and Rotterdam perhaps you think the Podesta brothers, Jimmy Savile, Cyril Smith, Jeremy Thorpe, Rolf Harris, Mark Thompson and all those Rotherham Pakistanis ate Jewish.....

    No, they’re just two Northern European cities with large, unassimilated Muslim populations and similar Germanic names.

  226. @FKA Max
    I just had a long and pretty testy exchange about this topic here at the Unz Review. Mindlessly throwing around the accusation/label of 'pedophile/psychopaths,' is very unhelpful and disingenuous; just like calling everybody one disagrees with a 'Neo-Nazi,' is. After a while the real pedophiles/psychopaths and real Neo-Nazis cannot be distinguished from the 'fake' ones anymore.

    So, according to his diaries, he had sex with a 16-year-old, while aged 28, and others that he described as “boys” (which can be a broad term for ages).

    I don’t know if the age of consent has changed recently in Italy (which I assumed is the Etna referred to), but it is currently 14 years old, so if he did that today, he would not be committing a crime.

    Judging historical figures’ behaviour by today’s/local social mores is often tricky. (Somehow, I don’t think he would have written it in his diary if he knew, a century later, the semantics would be debated in public.)
     
    - http://www.unz.com/article/npis-spencer-vs-politcos-hirsh-etc/#comment-1671081

    You should choose your words and sources more carefully. Don’t put your trust in the plutocrat-Koch-Bros.-controlled Tea Party or Alt Lite Infowars conspiracy theorists.

    Many of your own ancestors might be considered ‘pedophiles’ by today’s standards [emphasis added] [...]

    In the United States in the 1890s, several states had an age of consent as low as 10. In 1895, the age of consent in Delaware was 7, according to an article in The New York Times.[31]

     

    – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent_reform#United_States
    [...]
    Don’t participate in witch hunts, either.

     

    - http://www.unz.com/article/npis-spencer-vs-politcos-hirsh-etc/#comment-1671520

    No, I am not a homosexualist, bisexualist, and I do not condone pedophilia in any way.

    I am just highly allergic to BS!

    Left-wing BS, right-wing BS, political correctness, etc. Lies, hypocrisy, etc., generally give [me] hives.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/article/npis-spencer-vs-politcos-hirsh-etc/#comment-1672029

    Here a good read on the topic, just recently published:

    American Child Bride

    A History of Minors and Marriage in the United States


    By Nicholas L. Syrett [Published: October 2016]

    Most in the United States likely associate the concept of the child bride with the mores and practices of the distant past. But Nicholas L. Syrett challenges this assumption in his sweeping and sometimes shocking history of youthful marriage in America. Focusing on young women and girls--the most common underage spouses--Syrett tracks the marital history of American minors from the colonial period to the present, chronicling the debates and moral panics related to these unions.

    Although the frequency of child marriages has declined since the early twentieth century, Syrett reveals that the practice was historically far more widespread in the United States than is commonly thought. It also continues to this day: current estimates indicate that 9 percent of living American women were married before turning eighteen.

    By examining the legal and social forces that have worked to curtail early marriage in America--including the efforts of women's rights activists, advocates for children's rights, and social workers--Syrett sheds new light on the American public's perceptions of young people marrying and the ways that individuals and communities challenged the complex legalities and cultural norms brought to the fore when underage citizens, by choice or coercion, became husband and wife.
     
    - http://uncpress.unc.edu/browse/book_detail?title_id=3795

    There is a rather informative article in the WaPo about Pizzagate and its potential (mass-)psychological origins. It actually indirectly and temporarily “blames” over-zealous feminists with being the originators of the this moral panic. Quite interesting, but of course the article/author reverts back to Trump-bashing, etc. in the end.

    What the Pizzagate conspiracy theory borrows from a bogus satanic sex panic of the 1980s

    Second, in both cases, social movements were involved in the weaponization of suspicion, although the political center of gravity has shifted from one episode to the next. In the late 1970s, social workers and feminist activists had focused on combating child sexual abuse; they sometimes developed extremely broad definitions of abuse or floated exaggerated estimates of its occurrence in this quest. Such efforts have left deep cultural residues, and these include the acceptance of exaggerated claims about the number of child trafficking victims, and the incidence and forms of organized child sexual abuse. Pizzagate relies on these inflated fears to seem plausible, and it similarly relies on a viewpoint marked by extreme suspicion (of the media, Washington “elites,” politicians and the Clinton camp specifically) to decode ordinary events and statements into extraordinary claims.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/12/08/the-satanic-roots-of-pizzagate-how-a-30-year-old-sex-panic-explains-today/

    A moral panic is a feeling of fear spread among a large number of people that some evil threatens the well-being of society.[1][2] A Dictionary of Sociology defines a moral panic as “the process of arousing social concern over an issue – usually the work of moral entrepreneurs and the mass media.”[3]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_panic

    I had never come across the term “moral entrepreneur” before, very useful term… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_entrepreneur

    • Replies: @FKA Max
    One of the pieces of evidence in the Pizzagate scandal, which threw me for a loop, was Andrew Breitbart's tweet from 2011 about John Podesta. I did not understand its original/proper context, and so I interpreted it to be a very credible piece of evidence, which it is not really, as I found out.

    I think what we are witnessing in the case of Pizzagate is a collaboration of right-wing ``moral entrepreneurs'' (with whom I had not been that familiar with before, and who most likely and ironically were empowered and inspired by feminist, left-wing moral entrepreneurs' trumped-up claims about child sexual abuse) and right-wing ``conspiracy entrepreneurs '' ( e.g. Infowars.com et al., with whom I am personally very familiar with).

    This very good article puts Andrew Breitbart's tweet about John Podesta in perspective and in its proper context:

    About that Podesta ‘underage sex-slaves’ Tweet from Andrew Breitbart

    Nefarious operators on the Internet (as well as some innocent, misinformed individuals) have been freaking out over a Tweet from the late Andrew Breitbart connecting John Podesta to a “underage sex slave” operation.


    How prog-guru John Podesta isn't household name as world class underage sex slave op cover-upperer defending unspeakable dregs escapes me.

    — AndrewBreitbart (@AndrewBreitbart) February 4, 2011
     

    [...]

    There are tons of websites who make a lot of money doing pretty odious things. [...]

    However, because of the confusion over this Tweet, I think some context and an explanation is called for. And, for some reason, Breitbart News has not stepped up and delivered it themselves. (I searched, if they have, I will update this column post haste.) [...]

    Andrew was tweaking the media for giving Podesta a pass and celebrating the man who Andrew saw as his bete noir.

    And one of the most outrageous things Podesta did to Andrew, that the media never scrutinized, was his white-washing of the ACORN scandal.

    In other words, from Andrew’s perspective, Podesta was a “world class underage sex slave op cover-upperer defending unspeakable dregs .”

    That’s what the Tweet means, and anyone who tells you otherwise is up to something.
     

    - http://hotair.com/archives/2016/12/05/about-that-andrew-breitbart-tweet-about-podesta-and-underage-sex-slaves/

    I am still sitting on the fence about Pizzagate, but one thing is crystal clear to me, and that is, that if ``moral entrepreneurs'' and ``conspiracy entrepreneurs'', be they of the right-wing or left-wing persuasion, get involved in debates and investigations, these usually turn irrational, disingenuous, and hysterical fast.

    Talking about hysteria... some more background on Tony Podesta's now-infamous Arch of Hysteria sculpture:


    According to Bourgeois, the work's name and inspiration is a reference to a classic view of "hysteria," a traditionally female malady as it was originally linked to premenstrual syndrome.[2] An 1824 engraving by Charles Bell provides one illustration using a male.[3] However, there is one key difference between Bourgeois' work and all other portrayals of "hysteria" - no other portrayal has the subject's head severed. [...]

    Arch of Hysteria was first released in 1993. Jeffrey Dahmer was arrested on July 22, 1991.[4] On February 15, 1992, his first trial concluded.[5] The Polaroid photos he took of his victims provided key evidence against him in his criminal trial. The adjoining photo is one of 74 others.[6]
     

    - http://www.pizzagate.review/index.php/Louise_Bourgeois
    , @NoseytheDuke
    Incredibly generous of you to quote WaPo as a credible source. I would have done the same at one time but that was ages ago.

    BB753 asks why haven't the Posdestas sued? I would ask why haven't they at the very least stepped forward to offer a simple explanation for what most agree is code in the emails?

    I would suggest a possibility that blowing the lid off on this exposes exactly how certain "lobby" groups maintain control of the wheelhouse of the US ship of state, and have consistently steered it into troubled waters against the national interest.

    Wiz, a simple typo that my computer ran with (very observant of you).
  227. @FKA Max
    There is a rather informative article in the WaPo about Pizzagate and its potential (mass-)psychological origins. It actually indirectly and temporarily ``blames'' over-zealous feminists with being the originators of the this moral panic. Quite interesting, but of course the article/author reverts back to Trump-bashing, etc. in the end.

    What the Pizzagate conspiracy theory borrows from a bogus satanic sex panic of the 1980s


    Second, in both cases, social movements were involved in the weaponization of suspicion, although the political center of gravity has shifted from one episode to the next. In the late 1970s, social workers and feminist activists had focused on combating child sexual abuse; they sometimes developed extremely broad definitions of abuse or floated exaggerated estimates of its occurrence in this quest. Such efforts have left deep cultural residues, and these include the acceptance of exaggerated claims about the number of child trafficking victims, and the incidence and forms of organized child sexual abuse. Pizzagate relies on these inflated fears to seem plausible, and it similarly relies on a viewpoint marked by extreme suspicion (of the media, Washington “elites,” politicians and the Clinton camp specifically) to decode ordinary events and statements into extraordinary claims.
     
    - https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/12/08/the-satanic-roots-of-pizzagate-how-a-30-year-old-sex-panic-explains-today/

    A moral panic is a feeling of fear spread among a large number of people that some evil threatens the well-being of society.[1][2] A Dictionary of Sociology defines a moral panic as "the process of arousing social concern over an issue – usually the work of moral entrepreneurs and the mass media."[3] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_panic

    I had never come across the term ``moral entrepreneur'' before, very useful term... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_entrepreneur

    One of the pieces of evidence in the Pizzagate scandal, which threw me for a loop, was Andrew Breitbart’s tweet from 2011 about John Podesta. I did not understand its original/proper context, and so I interpreted it to be a very credible piece of evidence, which it is not really, as I found out.

    I think what we are witnessing in the case of Pizzagate is a collaboration of right-wing “moral entrepreneurs” (with whom I had not been that familiar with before, and who most likely and ironically were empowered and inspired by feminist, left-wing moral entrepreneurs’ trumped-up claims about child sexual abuse) and right-wing “conspiracy entrepreneurs ” ( e.g. Infowars.com et al., with whom I am personally very familiar with).

    This very good article puts Andrew Breitbart’s tweet about John Podesta in perspective and in its proper context:

    About that Podesta ‘underage sex-slaves’ Tweet from Andrew Breitbart

    Nefarious operators on the Internet (as well as some innocent, misinformed individuals) have been freaking out over a Tweet from the late Andrew Breitbart connecting John Podesta to a “underage sex slave” operation.

    How prog-guru John Podesta isn’t household name as world class underage sex slave op cover-upperer defending unspeakable dregs escapes me.

    — AndrewBreitbart (@AndrewBreitbart) February 4, 2011

    [...]

    There are tons of websites who make a lot of money doing pretty odious things. [...]

    However, because of the confusion over this Tweet, I think some context and an explanation is called for. And, for some reason, Breitbart News has not stepped up and delivered it themselves. (I searched, if they have, I will update this column post haste.) [...]

    Andrew was tweaking the media for giving Podesta a pass and celebrating the man who Andrew saw as his bete noir.

    And one of the most outrageous things Podesta did to Andrew, that the media never scrutinized, was his white-washing of the ACORN scandal.

    In other words, from Andrew’s perspective, Podesta was a “world class underage sex slave op cover-upperer defending unspeakable dregs .”

    That’s what the Tweet means, and anyone who tells you otherwise is up to something.

    http://hotair.com/archives/2016/12/05/about-that-andrew-breitbart-tweet-about-podesta-and-underage-sex-slaves/

    I am still sitting on the fence about Pizzagate, but one thing is crystal clear to me, and that is, that if “moral entrepreneurs” and “conspiracy entrepreneurs”, be they of the right-wing or left-wing persuasion, get involved in debates and investigations, these usually turn irrational, disingenuous, and hysterical fast.

    Talking about hysteria… some more background on Tony Podesta’s now-infamous Arch of Hysteria sculpture:

    According to Bourgeois, the work’s name and inspiration is a reference to a classic view of “hysteria,” a traditionally female malady as it was originally linked to premenstrual syndrome.[2] An 1824 engraving by Charles Bell provides one illustration using a male.[3] However, there is one key difference between Bourgeois’ work and all other portrayals of “hysteria” – no other portrayal has the subject’s head severed. [...]

    Arch of Hysteria was first released in 1993. Jeffrey Dahmer was arrested on July 22, 1991.[4] On February 15, 1992, his first trial concluded.[5] The Polaroid photos he took of his victims provided key evidence against him in his criminal trial. The adjoining photo is one of 74 others.[6]

    http://www.pizzagate.review/index.php/Louise_Bourgeois

    • Replies: @Stonehands
    We know all about "Hysteria", but why did the artist use a decapitated male if not to possibly conflate this in the viewers mind with the atrocities of Dalmer?

    What about the other degenerate art, such as the child bondage spankees posing in the easy- to -clean tiled torture chambers?

    Some of us will never accept homosexuality as an "alternative" lifestyle.

    The fact that Alefantis is a homo; who by dint of his perverse sexuality- has achieved some level of notoriety prior to pizzagate- is certainly part of the underlying rancor towards him.
    , @Skeptikal
    What does the sculpture in questin have to do with a woman's body?
    No breasts, etc.
    Weird.
    There is smoke in the Pizzagate story, and a lot of pepole are throwing up dust, much of it of an ad hominam nature, to try to dissipate the smoke.
    Forget who is saying this and that and how they self-identify, etc. Breitbart has nothing obvious to do with this. Stop looking at the tch-tching in the MSM about hysterical bloggers, etc. Irrelevant.

    Look at the evidence, look at the emails, and find out WFT they mean and their authors were talking about, or what they assert that they are talking about.
    $65,000 for pizzas and hotdogs from Chicago? Let's start there. What is that about?
    , @anonymous
    This clip of Brietbart going off on John Podesta seemed to me more than just a political squabble.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgBvPx4CvhI

    Keep in mind, this was years before the Wikileaks 'Pizza' stuff. Also keep in mind that Breitbard dropped dead shortly after this was filmed.
  228. If the Podestas are innocent, why do they keep quiet and don’t sue?

  229. @FKA Max
    One of the pieces of evidence in the Pizzagate scandal, which threw me for a loop, was Andrew Breitbart's tweet from 2011 about John Podesta. I did not understand its original/proper context, and so I interpreted it to be a very credible piece of evidence, which it is not really, as I found out.

    I think what we are witnessing in the case of Pizzagate is a collaboration of right-wing ``moral entrepreneurs'' (with whom I had not been that familiar with before, and who most likely and ironically were empowered and inspired by feminist, left-wing moral entrepreneurs' trumped-up claims about child sexual abuse) and right-wing ``conspiracy entrepreneurs '' ( e.g. Infowars.com et al., with whom I am personally very familiar with).

    This very good article puts Andrew Breitbart's tweet about John Podesta in perspective and in its proper context:

    About that Podesta ‘underage sex-slaves’ Tweet from Andrew Breitbart

    Nefarious operators on the Internet (as well as some innocent, misinformed individuals) have been freaking out over a Tweet from the late Andrew Breitbart connecting John Podesta to a “underage sex slave” operation.


    How prog-guru John Podesta isn't household name as world class underage sex slave op cover-upperer defending unspeakable dregs escapes me.

    — AndrewBreitbart (@AndrewBreitbart) February 4, 2011
     

    [...]

    There are tons of websites who make a lot of money doing pretty odious things. [...]

    However, because of the confusion over this Tweet, I think some context and an explanation is called for. And, for some reason, Breitbart News has not stepped up and delivered it themselves. (I searched, if they have, I will update this column post haste.) [...]

    Andrew was tweaking the media for giving Podesta a pass and celebrating the man who Andrew saw as his bete noir.

    And one of the most outrageous things Podesta did to Andrew, that the media never scrutinized, was his white-washing of the ACORN scandal.

    In other words, from Andrew’s perspective, Podesta was a “world class underage sex slave op cover-upperer defending unspeakable dregs .”

    That’s what the Tweet means, and anyone who tells you otherwise is up to something.
     

    - http://hotair.com/archives/2016/12/05/about-that-andrew-breitbart-tweet-about-podesta-and-underage-sex-slaves/

    I am still sitting on the fence about Pizzagate, but one thing is crystal clear to me, and that is, that if ``moral entrepreneurs'' and ``conspiracy entrepreneurs'', be they of the right-wing or left-wing persuasion, get involved in debates and investigations, these usually turn irrational, disingenuous, and hysterical fast.

    Talking about hysteria... some more background on Tony Podesta's now-infamous Arch of Hysteria sculpture:


    According to Bourgeois, the work's name and inspiration is a reference to a classic view of "hysteria," a traditionally female malady as it was originally linked to premenstrual syndrome.[2] An 1824 engraving by Charles Bell provides one illustration using a male.[3] However, there is one key difference between Bourgeois' work and all other portrayals of "hysteria" - no other portrayal has the subject's head severed. [...]

    Arch of Hysteria was first released in 1993. Jeffrey Dahmer was arrested on July 22, 1991.[4] On February 15, 1992, his first trial concluded.[5] The Polaroid photos he took of his victims provided key evidence against him in his criminal trial. The adjoining photo is one of 74 others.[6]
     

    - http://www.pizzagate.review/index.php/Louise_Bourgeois

    We know all about “Hysteria”, but why did the artist use a decapitated male if not to possibly conflate this in the viewers mind with the atrocities of Dalmer?

    What about the other degenerate art, such as the child bondage spankees posing in the easy- to -clean tiled torture chambers?

    Some of us will never accept homosexuality as an “alternative” lifestyle.

    The fact that Alefantis is a homo; who by dint of his perverse sexuality- has achieved some level of notoriety prior to pizzagate- is certainly part of the underlying rancor towards him.

  230. @FKA Max
    One of the pieces of evidence in the Pizzagate scandal, which threw me for a loop, was Andrew Breitbart's tweet from 2011 about John Podesta. I did not understand its original/proper context, and so I interpreted it to be a very credible piece of evidence, which it is not really, as I found out.

    I think what we are witnessing in the case of Pizzagate is a collaboration of right-wing ``moral entrepreneurs'' (with whom I had not been that familiar with before, and who most likely and ironically were empowered and inspired by feminist, left-wing moral entrepreneurs' trumped-up claims about child sexual abuse) and right-wing ``conspiracy entrepreneurs '' ( e.g. Infowars.com et al., with whom I am personally very familiar with).

    This very good article puts Andrew Breitbart's tweet about John Podesta in perspective and in its proper context:

    About that Podesta ‘underage sex-slaves’ Tweet from Andrew Breitbart

    Nefarious operators on the Internet (as well as some innocent, misinformed individuals) have been freaking out over a Tweet from the late Andrew Breitbart connecting John Podesta to a “underage sex slave” operation.


    How prog-guru John Podesta isn't household name as world class underage sex slave op cover-upperer defending unspeakable dregs escapes me.

    — AndrewBreitbart (@AndrewBreitbart) February 4, 2011
     

    [...]

    There are tons of websites who make a lot of money doing pretty odious things. [...]

    However, because of the confusion over this Tweet, I think some context and an explanation is called for. And, for some reason, Breitbart News has not stepped up and delivered it themselves. (I searched, if they have, I will update this column post haste.) [...]

    Andrew was tweaking the media for giving Podesta a pass and celebrating the man who Andrew saw as his bete noir.

    And one of the most outrageous things Podesta did to Andrew, that the media never scrutinized, was his white-washing of the ACORN scandal.

    In other words, from Andrew’s perspective, Podesta was a “world class underage sex slave op cover-upperer defending unspeakable dregs .”

    That’s what the Tweet means, and anyone who tells you otherwise is up to something.
     

    - http://hotair.com/archives/2016/12/05/about-that-andrew-breitbart-tweet-about-podesta-and-underage-sex-slaves/

    I am still sitting on the fence about Pizzagate, but one thing is crystal clear to me, and that is, that if ``moral entrepreneurs'' and ``conspiracy entrepreneurs'', be they of the right-wing or left-wing persuasion, get involved in debates and investigations, these usually turn irrational, disingenuous, and hysterical fast.

    Talking about hysteria... some more background on Tony Podesta's now-infamous Arch of Hysteria sculpture:


    According to Bourgeois, the work's name and inspiration is a reference to a classic view of "hysteria," a traditionally female malady as it was originally linked to premenstrual syndrome.[2] An 1824 engraving by Charles Bell provides one illustration using a male.[3] However, there is one key difference between Bourgeois' work and all other portrayals of "hysteria" - no other portrayal has the subject's head severed. [...]

    Arch of Hysteria was first released in 1993. Jeffrey Dahmer was arrested on July 22, 1991.[4] On February 15, 1992, his first trial concluded.[5] The Polaroid photos he took of his victims provided key evidence against him in his criminal trial. The adjoining photo is one of 74 others.[6]
     

    - http://www.pizzagate.review/index.php/Louise_Bourgeois

    What does the sculpture in questin have to do with a woman’s body?
    No breasts, etc.
    Weird.
    There is smoke in the Pizzagate story, and a lot of pepole are throwing up dust, much of it of an ad hominam nature, to try to dissipate the smoke.
    Forget who is saying this and that and how they self-identify, etc. Breitbart has nothing obvious to do with this. Stop looking at the tch-tching in the MSM about hysterical bloggers, etc. Irrelevant.

    Look at the evidence, look at the emails, and find out WFT they mean and their authors were talking about, or what they assert that they are talking about.
    $65,000 for pizzas and hotdogs from Chicago? Let’s start there. What is that about?

    • Replies: @Zippy
    @Skeptikal

    The $65,000 for pizza and hot dogs from Chicago actually makes sense. Or at least it is plausible. Obama lived in Chicago for many years, and it is perfectly understandable that he would enjoy the native cuisine.

    Chicago is known for its stuffed pizza from restaurants such as Giardano's. Chicago stuffed pizza is delicious and unrivaled elsewhere in the country. Oh they make pan pizzas elsewhere, but it's never as good. There is a big rivalry between Chicago pizza and the thin greasy New York pizza.

    Likewise, Chicago Hot Dogs are famous (and delicious). They are Vienna Beef all-beef hot dogs, served on a lightly-steamed poppy-seed bun, with mustard, onions, bright green sweet pickle relish, a dill pickle spear, sport peppers and and celery salt. Ketchup is totally unacceptable as a condiment, and demands for ketchup have even been met with physical violence.

    Both Chicago stuffed pizza and the ingredients for Chicago hot dogs can now be purchased online and shipped to deprived regions of the United States.

    ANY President with links to Chicago would sometimes import them to DC for a White House event.
  231. anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @FKA Max
    One of the pieces of evidence in the Pizzagate scandal, which threw me for a loop, was Andrew Breitbart's tweet from 2011 about John Podesta. I did not understand its original/proper context, and so I interpreted it to be a very credible piece of evidence, which it is not really, as I found out.

    I think what we are witnessing in the case of Pizzagate is a collaboration of right-wing ``moral entrepreneurs'' (with whom I had not been that familiar with before, and who most likely and ironically were empowered and inspired by feminist, left-wing moral entrepreneurs' trumped-up claims about child sexual abuse) and right-wing ``conspiracy entrepreneurs '' ( e.g. Infowars.com et al., with whom I am personally very familiar with).

    This very good article puts Andrew Breitbart's tweet about John Podesta in perspective and in its proper context:

    About that Podesta ‘underage sex-slaves’ Tweet from Andrew Breitbart

    Nefarious operators on the Internet (as well as some innocent, misinformed individuals) have been freaking out over a Tweet from the late Andrew Breitbart connecting John Podesta to a “underage sex slave” operation.


    How prog-guru John Podesta isn't household name as world class underage sex slave op cover-upperer defending unspeakable dregs escapes me.

    — AndrewBreitbart (@AndrewBreitbart) February 4, 2011
     

    [...]

    There are tons of websites who make a lot of money doing pretty odious things. [...]

    However, because of the confusion over this Tweet, I think some context and an explanation is called for. And, for some reason, Breitbart News has not stepped up and delivered it themselves. (I searched, if they have, I will update this column post haste.) [...]

    Andrew was tweaking the media for giving Podesta a pass and celebrating the man who Andrew saw as his bete noir.

    And one of the most outrageous things Podesta did to Andrew, that the media never scrutinized, was his white-washing of the ACORN scandal.

    In other words, from Andrew’s perspective, Podesta was a “world class underage sex slave op cover-upperer defending unspeakable dregs .”

    That’s what the Tweet means, and anyone who tells you otherwise is up to something.
     

    - http://hotair.com/archives/2016/12/05/about-that-andrew-breitbart-tweet-about-podesta-and-underage-sex-slaves/

    I am still sitting on the fence about Pizzagate, but one thing is crystal clear to me, and that is, that if ``moral entrepreneurs'' and ``conspiracy entrepreneurs'', be they of the right-wing or left-wing persuasion, get involved in debates and investigations, these usually turn irrational, disingenuous, and hysterical fast.

    Talking about hysteria... some more background on Tony Podesta's now-infamous Arch of Hysteria sculpture:


    According to Bourgeois, the work's name and inspiration is a reference to a classic view of "hysteria," a traditionally female malady as it was originally linked to premenstrual syndrome.[2] An 1824 engraving by Charles Bell provides one illustration using a male.[3] However, there is one key difference between Bourgeois' work and all other portrayals of "hysteria" - no other portrayal has the subject's head severed. [...]

    Arch of Hysteria was first released in 1993. Jeffrey Dahmer was arrested on July 22, 1991.[4] On February 15, 1992, his first trial concluded.[5] The Polaroid photos he took of his victims provided key evidence against him in his criminal trial. The adjoining photo is one of 74 others.[6]
     

    - http://www.pizzagate.review/index.php/Louise_Bourgeois

    This clip of Brietbart going off on John Podesta seemed to me more than just a political squabble.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgBvPx4CvhI

    Keep in mind, this was years before the Wikileaks ‘Pizza’ stuff. Also keep in mind that Breitbard dropped dead shortly after this was filmed.

  232. @FKA Max
    There is a rather informative article in the WaPo about Pizzagate and its potential (mass-)psychological origins. It actually indirectly and temporarily ``blames'' over-zealous feminists with being the originators of the this moral panic. Quite interesting, but of course the article/author reverts back to Trump-bashing, etc. in the end.

    What the Pizzagate conspiracy theory borrows from a bogus satanic sex panic of the 1980s


    Second, in both cases, social movements were involved in the weaponization of suspicion, although the political center of gravity has shifted from one episode to the next. In the late 1970s, social workers and feminist activists had focused on combating child sexual abuse; they sometimes developed extremely broad definitions of abuse or floated exaggerated estimates of its occurrence in this quest. Such efforts have left deep cultural residues, and these include the acceptance of exaggerated claims about the number of child trafficking victims, and the incidence and forms of organized child sexual abuse. Pizzagate relies on these inflated fears to seem plausible, and it similarly relies on a viewpoint marked by extreme suspicion (of the media, Washington “elites,” politicians and the Clinton camp specifically) to decode ordinary events and statements into extraordinary claims.
     
    - https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/12/08/the-satanic-roots-of-pizzagate-how-a-30-year-old-sex-panic-explains-today/

    A moral panic is a feeling of fear spread among a large number of people that some evil threatens the well-being of society.[1][2] A Dictionary of Sociology defines a moral panic as "the process of arousing social concern over an issue – usually the work of moral entrepreneurs and the mass media."[3] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_panic

    I had never come across the term ``moral entrepreneur'' before, very useful term... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_entrepreneur

    Incredibly generous of you to quote WaPo as a credible source. I would have done the same at one time but that was ages ago.

    BB753 asks why haven’t the Posdestas sued? I would ask why haven’t they at the very least stepped forward to offer a simple explanation for what most agree is code in the emails?

    I would suggest a possibility that blowing the lid off on this exposes exactly how certain “lobby” groups maintain control of the wheelhouse of the US ship of state, and have consistently steered it into troubled waters against the national interest.

    Wiz, a simple typo that my computer ran with (very observant of you).

  233. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    Pizzagate is not “fake news” at all. It needs to be investigated.

    The MSM says it does not disseminate “fake news”. However, the MSM will often simply not cover events that ARE real news.

    Thus, the MSM is disseminating the opposite of “fake news”, namely NO NEWS. The MSM keeps people in the dark because there things that it does not want people to know about. For example, the MSM will often not cover stories about how the LGBTQ movement is brainwashing kids in even the lowest grade in public elementary schools. That’s because the MSM does not want people to become upset at the penetration (no pun intended) of the LGBTQ agenda.

    In reality, there is relatively little “fake news” out there. Most alternative websites that people visit, such as Unz, simply provide a different perspective on issues that the MSM won’t cover at all, or cover in a cursory manner.

  234. Agreed.
    And the “fake news” trope is an excellent example of misdirection/laying a false trail.

  235. @James Kabala
    Where I find that this whole thing breaks down is that the original claim was that pizza was supposed to be code for child pornography. No one originally suggested that there was any connection to actual pizza. Alefantis was dragged in only when someone decided that any reference to pizza in the e-mails, even something as normal and unremarkable as a mention of a pizza party by an actual pizza place owner, must refer to child porn. I am sure that the true believers have done some mental gymnastics/retconning and now say, "They used pizza as a code precisely because the ringleader was an actual pizzeria owner!" But that was not the original claim.

    P.S. I have now finally seen the famous "girl with her hands taped to a table." I am very underwhelmed. You do realize the kinds of silly stunts and games that kids like to do, right? The ping pong player behind her indicates that this was all in public.

    P.P.S. Is there any evidence that this "pedophile symbols" document is really from the FBI? Did anyone ever hear of these alleged symbols before last month?

    Whether the FBI document is genuine or not, it was all over the internet 7 years ago. Slate or Salon even did an on-line essay on it. Some of these symbols have been identified as codes for pedophilia for a long time now.

    That nine years later these symbols spontaneously appear all over the logos, ads, and internal decoration of pizzerias forming a geographical cluster in DC is a striking coincidence; made more poignant because some of the more prominent clients of these pizzerias have been dogged by rumors of sado-sexual activities involving children for many years.

    It’s also striking how quickly all the pedophile cant, symbols and imagery was removed from all these locations immediately after the pizzagate scandal began getting traction, and how shortly after this the MSM launched a concerted effort to label the story as a loony-toon conspiracy theory, while at the same time many internet sites began purging their archives of related material and denying access to those who wished to explore the scandal further.

  236. @utu
    http://www.thelastamericanvagabond.com/top-news/podesta-brothers-revealed/

    All “the Podesta brothers were in Portugal on 3 May 2007″ stories ultimately trace back to a post by one Victurus Libertas who claims to have been given this information by an anonymous FBI informant. It’s nonsense like this that the MSM and others use to discredit what I now believe is a major scandal involving unspeakably evil crimes. Just post verifiable info with solid sources or at least admit you are dealing in unconfirmed rumors or speculation. You hurt the cause by doing otherwise.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    Classic disinfo technique, to seed the truth with a few lies that are provably false so that then the whole thing can be claimed to be false and written off.

    I don't know about the Podestas but as others here have rightly stated, there's enough smoke for a thorough, open investigation.

    Coincidently, the anti-Russian rhetoric has escalated to an even more absurd degree alongside the Pizzagate news. I wonder if the result will be even less people believing the blatant lies of mass media or if people will just demonstrate that there are no limits to gullibility.
  237. @Jus' Sayin'...
    All "the Podesta brothers were in Portugal on 3 May 2007" stories ultimately trace back to a post by one Victurus Libertas who claims to have been given this information by an anonymous FBI informant. It's nonsense like this that the MSM and others use to discredit what I now believe is a major scandal involving unspeakably evil crimes. Just post verifiable info with solid sources or at least admit you are dealing in unconfirmed rumors or speculation. You hurt the cause by doing otherwise.

    Classic disinfo technique, to seed the truth with a few lies that are provably false so that then the whole thing can be claimed to be false and written off.

    I don’t know about the Podestas but as others here have rightly stated, there’s enough smoke for a thorough, open investigation.

    Coincidently, the anti-Russian rhetoric has escalated to an even more absurd degree alongside the Pizzagate news. I wonder if the result will be even less people believing the blatant lies of mass media or if people will just demonstrate that there are no limits to gullibility.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    I saw a headline on CNN.com claiming Russia was attempting to smear people by 'planting' child pornography on their computers.

    I didn't bother reading it, as CNN is a Gawker level news source these days, but it seems like they may attempt to blame this stuff on Russia - along with everything else.
  238. anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @NoseytheDuke
    Classic disinfo technique, to seed the truth with a few lies that are provably false so that then the whole thing can be claimed to be false and written off.

    I don't know about the Podestas but as others here have rightly stated, there's enough smoke for a thorough, open investigation.

    Coincidently, the anti-Russian rhetoric has escalated to an even more absurd degree alongside the Pizzagate news. I wonder if the result will be even less people believing the blatant lies of mass media or if people will just demonstrate that there are no limits to gullibility.

    I saw a headline on CNN.com claiming Russia was attempting to smear people by ‘planting’ child pornography on their computers.

    I didn’t bother reading it, as CNN is a Gawker level news source these days, but it seems like they may attempt to blame this stuff on Russia – along with everything else.

  239. Mark Green says: • Website