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In the United States of Inequality
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So effectively has the Beltway establishment captured the concept of national security that, for most of us, it automatically conjures up images of terrorist groups, cyber warriors, or “rogue states.” To ward off such foes, the United States maintains a historically unprecedented constellation of military bases abroad and, since 9/11, has waged wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, and elsewhere that have gobbled up nearly $4.8 trillion. The 2018 Pentagon budget already totals $647 billion — four times what China, second in global military spending, shells out and more than the next 12 countries combined, seven of them American allies. For good measure, Donald Trump has added an additional $200 billion to projected defense expenditures through 2019.

Yet to hear the hawks tell it, the United States has never been less secure. So much for bang for the buck.

For millions of Americans, however, the greatest threat to their day-to-day security isn’t terrorism or North Korea, Iran, Russia, or China. It’s internal — and economic. That’s particularly true for the 12.7% of Americans (43.1 million of them) classified as poor by the government’s criteria: an income below $12,140 for a one-person household, $16,460 for a family of two, and so on… until you get to the princely sum of $42,380 for a family of eight.

Savings aren’t much help either: a third of Americans have no savings at all and another third have less than $1,000 in the bank. Little wonder that families struggling to cover the cost of food alone increased from 11% (36 million) in 2007 to 14% (48 million) in 2014.

The Working Poor

Unemployment can certainly contribute to being poor, but millions of Americans endure poverty when they have full-time jobs or even hold down more than one job. The latest figures from the Bureau of Labor Statistics show that there are 8.6 million “working poor,” defined by the government as people who live below the poverty line despite being employed at least 27 weeks a year. Their economic insecurity doesn’t register in our society, partly because working and being poor don’t seem to go together in the minds of many Americans — and unemployment has fallen reasonably steadily. After approaching 10% in 2009, it’s now at only 4%.

Help from the government? Bill Clinton’s 1996 welfare “reform” program , concocted in partnership with congressional Republicans, imposed time limits on government assistance, while tightening eligibility criteria for it. So, as Kathryn Edin and Luke Shaefer show in their disturbing book, $2.00 a Day: Living on Almost Nothing in America, many who desperately need help don’t even bother to apply. And things will only get worse in the age of Trump. His 2019 budget includes deep cuts in a raft of anti-poverty programs.

Anyone seeking a visceral sense of the hardships such Americans endure should read Barbara Ehrenreich’s 2001 book Nickel and Dimed: On (Not) Getting By in America. It’s a gripping account of what she learned when, posing as a “homemaker” with no special skills, she worked for two years in various low-wage jobs, relying solely on her earnings to support herself. The book brims with stories about people who had jobs but, out of necessity, slept in rent-by-the-week fleabag motels, flophouses, or even in their cars, subsisting on vending machine snacks for lunch, hot dogs and instant noodles for dinner , and forgoing basic dental care or health checkups. Those who managed to get permanent housing would choose poor, low-rent neighborhoods close to work because they often couldn’t afford a car. To maintain even such a barebones lifestyle, many worked more than one job.

Though politicians prattle on about how times have changed for the better, Ehrenreich’s book still provides a remarkably accurate picture of America’s working poor. Over the past decade the proportion of people who exhausted their monthly paychecks just to pay for life’s essentials actually increased from 31% to 38%. In 2013, 71% of the families that had children and used food pantries run by Feeding America, the largest private organization helping the hungry, included at least one person who had worked during the previous year. And in America’s big cities, chiefly because of a widening gap between rent and wages, thousands of working poor remain homeless, sleeping in shelters, on the streets, or in their vehicles, sometimes along with their families. In New York City, no outlier when it comes to homelessness among the working poor, in a third of the families with children that use homeless shelters at least one adult held a job.

The Wages of Poverty

The working poor cluster in certain occupations. They are salespeople in retail stores, servers or preparers of fast food, custodial staff, hotel workers, and caregivers for children or the elderly. Many make less than $10 an hour and lack any leverage, union or otherwise, to press for raises. In fact, the percentage of unionized workers in such jobs remains in the single digits — and in retail and food preparation, it’s under 4.5%. That’s hardly surprising, given that private sector union membership has fallen by 50% since 1983 to only 6.7% of the workforce.

Low-wage employers like it that way and — Walmart being the poster child for this — work diligently to make it ever harder for employees to join unions. As a result, they rarely find themselves under any real pressure to increase wages, which, adjusted for inflation, have stood still or even decreased since the late 1970s. When employment is “at-will,” workers may be fired or the terms of their work amended on the whim of a company and without the slightest explanation. Walmart announced this year that it would hike its hourly wage to $11 and that’s welcome news. But this had nothing to do with collective bargaining; it was a response to the drop in the unemployment rate, cash flows from the Trump tax cut for corporations (which saved Walmart as much as $2 billion), an increase in minimum wages in a number of states, and pay increases by an arch competitor, Target. It was also accompanied by the shutdown of 63 of Walmart’s Sam’s Club stores, which meant layoffs for 10,000 workers. In short, the balance of power almost always favors the employer, seldom the employee.

As a result, though the United States has a per-capita income of $59,500 and is among the wealthiest countries in the world, 12.7% of Americans (that’s 43.1 million people), officially are impoverished. And that’s generally considered a significant undercount. The Census Bureau establishes the poverty rate by figuring out an annual no-frills family food budget, multiplying it by three, adjusting it for household size, and pegging it to the Consumer Price Index. That, many economists believe, is a woefully inadequate way of estimating poverty. Food prices haven’t risen dramatically over the past 20 years, but the cost of other necessities like medical care (especially if you lack insurance) and housing have: 10.5% and 11.8% respectively between 2013 and 2017 compared to an only 5.5% increase for food.

Include housing and medical expenses in the equation and you get the Supplementary Poverty Measure (SPM), published by the Census Bureau since 2011. It reveals that a larger number of Americans are poor: 14% or 45 million in 2016.

Dismal Data

For a fuller picture of American (in)security, however, it’s necessary to delve deeper into the relevant data, starting with hourly wages, which are the way more than 58% of adult workers are paid. The good news: only 1.8 million, or 2.3% of them, subsist at or below minimum wage. The not-so-good news: one-third of all workers earn less than $12 an hour and 42% earn less than $15. That’s $24,960 and $31,200 a year. Imagine raising a family on such incomes, figuring in the cost of food, rent, childcare, car payments (since a car is often a necessity simply to get to a job in a country with inadequate public transportation), and medical costs.

The problem facing the working poor isn’t just low wages, but the widening gap between wages and rising prices. The government has increased the hourly federal minimum wage more than 20 times since it was set at 25 cents under the 1938 Fair Labor Standards Act. Between 2007 and 2009 it rose to $7.25, but over the past decade that sum lost nearly 10% of its purchasing power to inflation, which means that, in 2018, someone would have to work 41 additional days to make the equivalent of the 2009 minimum wage.

Workers in the lowest 20% have lost the most ground, their inflation-adjusted wages falling by nearly 1% between 1979 and 2016, compared to a 24.7% increase for the top 20%. This can’t be explained by lackluster productivity since, between 1985 and 2015, it outstripped pay raises, often substantially, in every economic sector except mining.

Yes, states can mandate higher minimum wages and 29 have, but 21 have not, leaving many low-wage workers struggling to cover the costs of two essentials in particular: health care and housing.

Even when it comes to jobs that offer health insurance, employers have been shifting ever more of its cost onto their workers through higher deductibles and out-of-pocket expenses, as well as by requiring them to cover more of the premiums. The percentage of workers who paid at least 10% of their earnings to cover such costs — not counting premiums — doubled between 2003 and 2014.

This helps explain why, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, only 11% of workers in the bottom 10% of wage earners even enrolled in workplace healthcare plans in 2016 (compared to 72% in the top 10%). As a restaurant server who makes $2.13 an hour before tips — and whose husband earns $9 an hour at Walmart — put it, after paying the rent, “it’s either put food in the house or buy insurance.”

The Affordable Care Act, or ACA (aka Obamacare), provided subsidies to help people with low incomes cover the cost of insurance premiums, but workers with employer-supplied healthcare, no matter how low their wages, weren’t covered by it. Now, of course, President Trump, congressional Republicans, and a Supreme Court in which right-wing justices are going to be even more influential will be intent on poleaxing the ACA.

It’s housing, though, that takes the biggest bite out of the paychecks of low-wage workers. The majority of them are renters. Ownership remains for many a pipe dream. According to a Harvard study, between 2001 and 2016, renters who made $30,000-$50,000 a year and paid more than a third of their earnings to landlords (the threshold for qualifying as “rent burdened”) increased from 37% to 50%. For those making only $15,000, that figure rose to 83%.

In other words, in an ever more unequal America, the number of low-income workers struggling to pay their rent has surged. As the Harvard analysis shows, this is, in part, because the number of affluent renters (with incomes of $100,000 or more) has leapt and, in city after city, they’re driving the demand for, and building of, new rental units. As a result, the high-end share of new rental construction soared from a third to nearly two-thirds of all units between 2001 and 2016. Not surprisingly, new low-income rental units dropped from two-fifths to one-fifth of the total and, as the pressure on renters rose, so did rents for even those modest dwellings. On top of that, in places like New York City, where demand from the wealthy shapes the housing market, landlords have found ways — some within the law, others not — to get rid of low-income tenants.

Public housing and housing vouchers are supposed to make housing affordable to low-income households, but the supply of public housing hasn’t remotely matched demand. Consequently, waiting lists are long and people in need languish for years before getting a shot — if they ever do. Only a quarter of those who qualify for such assistance receive it. As for those vouchers, getting them is hard to begin with because of the massive mismatch between available funding for the program and the demand for the help it provides. And then come the other challenges: finding landlords willing to accept vouchers or rentals that are reasonably close to work and not in neighborhoods euphemistically labelled “distressed.”

The bottom line: more than 75% of “at-risk” renters (those for whom the cost of rent exceeds 30% or more of their earnings) do not receive assistance from the government. The real “risk” for them is becoming homeless, which means relying on shelters or family and friends willing to take them in.

President Trump’s proposed budget cuts will make life even harder for low-income workers seeking affordable housing. His 2019 budget proposal slashes $6.8 billion (14.2%) from the resources of the Department of Housing and Urban Development’s (HUD) by, among other things, scrapping housing vouchers and assistance to low-income families struggling to pay heating bills. The president also seeks to slash funds for the upkeep of public housing by nearly 50%. In addition, the deficits that his rich-come-first tax “reform” bill is virtually guaranteed to produce will undoubtedly set the stage for yet more cuts in the future. In other words, in what’s becoming the United States of Inequality, the very phrases “low-income workers” and “affordable housing” have ceased to go together.

None of this seems to have troubled HUD Secretary Ben Carson who happily ordered a $31,000 dining room set for his office suite at the taxpayers’ expense, even as he visited new public housing units to make sure that they weren’t too comfortable (lest the poor settle in for long stays). Carson has declared that it’s time to stop believing the problems of this society can be fixed merely by having the government throw extra money at them — unless, apparently, the dining room accoutrements of superbureaucrats aren’t up to snuff.

Money Talks

The levels of poverty and economic inequality that prevail in America are not intrinsic to either capitalism or globalization. Most other wealthy market economies in the 36-nation Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) have done far better than the United States in reducing them without sacrificing innovation or creating government-run economies.

Take the poverty gap, which the OECD defines as the difference between a country’s official poverty line and the average income of those who fall below it. The United States has the second largest poverty gap among wealthy countries; only Italy does worse.

Child poverty? In the World Economic Forum’s ranking of 41 countries — from best to worst — the U.S. placed 35th. Child poverty has declined in the United States since 2010, but a Columbia University report estimates that 19% of American kids (13.7 million) nevertheless lived in families with incomes below the official poverty line in 2016. If you add in the number of kids in low-income households, that number increases to 41%.

As for infant mortality, according to the government’s own Centers for Disease Control, the U.S., with 6.1 deaths per 1,000 live births, has the absolute worst record among wealthy countries. (Finland and Japan do best with 2.3.)

And when it comes to the distribution of wealth, among the OECD countries only Turkey, Chile, and Mexico do worse than the U.S.

It’s time to rethink the American national security state with its annual trillion-dollar budget. For tens of millions of Americans, the source of deep workaday insecurity isn’t the standard roster of foreign enemies, but an ever-more entrenched system of inequality, still growing, that stacks the political deck against the least well-off Americans. They lack the bucks to hire big-time lobbyists. They can’t write lavish checks to candidates running for public office or fund PACs. They have no way of manipulating the myriad influence-generating networks that the elite uses to shape taxation and spending policies. They are up against a system in which money truly does talk — and that’s the voice they don’t have. Welcome to the United States of Inequality.

Rajan Menon, a TomDispatch regular, is the Anne and Bernard Spitzer Professor of International Relations at the Powell School, City College of New York, and Senior Research Fellow at Columbia University’s Saltzman Institute of War and Peace Studies. He is the author, most recently, of The Conceit of Humanitarian Intervention .

(Republished from TomDispatch by permission of author or representative)
• Category: Economics • Tags: Inequality, Poverty, Working Class 
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  1. Issac says:

    The left is pro-war, pro open-border, and hates nothing more than the working class citizen of the US. A curry of your academic background knows this. Kindly return to your subcontinent and leave those Americans alone.

  2. “the United States has a per-capita income of $59,500 and is among the wealthiest countries in the world”

    “and 42% earn less than $15. That’s…..$31,200 a year.”

    Something doesn’t add up. There is no way that the per capita income of the United States is $59,500.

    Ahh, upon clicking the link, I see it is the mean. Meaning it’s meaningless.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  3. anon[266] • Disclaimer says:

    But Rajan ,the American can always ” honor the military ” at the fast food drive through, even send a few pennies for the Wounded Warrior Project ,in addition to buying lotteries, and writing the tithe to the Mega Churches seeking blessing for the military men and women in uniform . They can sing with Trump”Make America Great Again ” . They can come out of the woodshed to support wars , say things against Mexican, listen to FOX,and gather around Prospect park to celebrate birthdays , hop into a bus and continue texting to update the status on social media . They can nod with MSNBC that they have the best freedom that any corner of the world can afford . They if white can claim being discriminated by Asian Americans,if black by Mexicans,if Latinos by whites .
    Now it seems they could feel proud of the ability to guide China UK and Brazil/Argentina do the right things .

  4. Why do these experts fail to understand that our national security budget is twice that of the Department of Defense? It is no secret, POGO runs a tally showing it’s twice as much:

    For example, nuclear weapons are not included in our “defense budget” but eat up more than half of the budget for our Dept of Energy!

    This author also fails to explain that mass immigration is the primary cause of stagnant wages for the working poor. From my blog:

    Jul 16, 2018 – Illegal Immigration Replaced Slave Labor

    In past blog posts, I explained how illegal immigration is a form of slave labor. It seems powerful people explained this to former President George W. Bush, but didn’t tell him not to repeat it in public and that Americans no longer pick cotton by hand. As a result, Bush said this during a speech earlier this year:

    “There are people willing to do jobs that Americans won’t do. Americans don’t want to pick cotton at 105 degrees, but there are people who want put food on their family’s tables and are willing to do that. We ought to say thank you and welcome them.”

    Bush failed to note that millionaires pay only $10 an hour with no benefits for these tough jobs, yet most field workers are US citizens or green card holders. Illegals are hired to hold down wages and deter unions and strikes. If they would pay $20 an hour, plenty of Americans would show up to work. Most Americans don’t know that millions of white Americans once picked cotton by hand, and picked more than Blacks or Mexicans.

    • Replies: @Ahem
    , @Patriot
    , @prusmc

    1) I left in 1999 and at the time there were pockets of poverty but overall the US had a decent standard of living in the Clinton era for the middle class. Unless you were a hopeless crack head, no white male was homeless on the street.

    So what happened during the Bush era? It is like the white middle-class went the way of the dial-up modem and the video store.

    2) I lived in Phoenix and in 1998 Chicano were no fun to be around and illegal immigration was a problem then. But Hispanics had not become the sheer nightmare they appear to have since I left the US in 1999. I’ve only BEEN in the US for a period of 2 weeks in the past 19 years since I left age 25, bear in mind.

    3) In the 1990’s white working class proles were a rough lot but they were not totally out of control like now with the out-of-wedlock births and the Oxy abuse. They tended to marry absurdly young like age 20, have kids at 21, work horrendous shitty jobs but were not behaving like blacks. In fact, poor working whites tended to despise black behavior. Today poor whites that would have listened to Aerosmith and dressed like Judas Priest now act like black thugs. What happened?

    4) In the 1990’s, there were few out-of-wedlock births. It was mostly a negro thing. Whites tended to use rubbers or birth control and it was unusual for a white adult female to be pregnant unintentionally. Of course this was in the era when AIDS killed you quick, so protected sex was more popular. But why are there more out-of-wedlock births in 2018 than in 1998?

    • Replies: @Biff
  6. Question for Australian and NZ posters-

    Why are working middle class whites so bad off in the US compared to other developed English-speaking countries?

    Australia was founded by rough working class whites but the country does not have the vast swathes of poverty like Pittsburgh, Detroit, Appalachia. There is no question that Australia has disadvantaged whites but they are not in the horrendous near-Calcutta state you see in Michigan or Arkansas.

    Why is the standard of living for whites higher in Australia or Canada or New Zealand than in the United States.

    I guarantee you that if you visited an Australian VA hospital the ex-military are not in the condition of poverty they are in the Podunk towns of the US from which the military draws most of its volunteers.

    Canada and Australia and New Zealand seem to do things better. I say this as an American. What is different?

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    , @peterAUS
  7. Are those “rent as a percent of income” numbers quoted in the article before or after taxes and other withholdings? It makes a big difference. Even if you are in the lowest federal tax bracket, depending where you live, adding in state taxes and FICA/Medicare withholding can easily reduce your gross pay by 20%.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  8. peterAUS says:

    Articles like this pop up here every now and then.
    Something doesn’t compute.

    If the situation is as grim as the article says, why so many people do their best to immigrate into USA?

    Why more, just Westerners, try to immigrate into USA then Americans into those, just Western, countries?

    I’ve known some Americans around here where I live.
    I’ve known many more locals who’ve gone to live in USA, let alone tried to get to live in USA.

    Something simply does not compute.

    A simple question for an American:
    If a person is prudent and sensible, is it really that hard to get by, unemployed, there?

    Now, in similar topic an American did explain, some time ago, that there are so many ways to help those unemployed/underpaid. That the social security net isn’t worse, but actually overall better, then in other Western countries.
    Plus, of course, opportunities.

    Again, all that data from the article I can’t challenge. What doesn’t make sense is net migration, just within Western sphere.

    I do know some people, several dozen I guess, who live in USA. They have been doing quite well. From a bus driver to a top medical professional.

    Anyone cares to shed some light there ?

    • Replies: @Biff
    , @Jeff Stryker
  9. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:

    Poverty is caused by immigrants of all levels of skills and education holding down wages and raising rents for everybody.

    The author failed to mention that the affirmative action often immigrant workers who run public housing and give out the section 8 vouchers are under orders to discriminate against Whites and Americans.

    Trump and Carson are cutting HUDfunds? Since Whites haven’t gotten those benefits why should Whites care?

    CCNY and Columbia? Two notorious anti White institutions. Go back to India so an American can have your job.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
  10. Biff says:

    For a fuller picture of American (in)security, however, it’s necessary to delve deeper into the relevant data, starting with hourly wages, which are the way more than 58% of adult workers are paid. The good news: only 1.8 million, or 2.3% of them, subsist at or below minimum wage. The not-so-good news: one-third of all workers earn less than $12 an hour and 42% earn less than $15. That’s $24,960 and $31,200 a year. Imagine raising a family on such incomes, figuring in the cost of food, rent, childcare, car payments (since a car is often a necessity simply to get to a job in a country with inadequate public transportation), and medical costs.

    You forgot another expense poor communities have – governmental extraction forces GEF. Local law enforcement target the poor with the many petty offenses(they’ve purposely invented) to extract money for expanding and maintaining of their extortion racket. This no secret or conspiracy theory, for they readily admit to it. They target the poor because they understand that the poor do not have resources(lawyers, guns, and money) to fight back. They target the poor because they’re poor, and the poor understand this as just another bill to pay – another added expense of living in their community.

    Another indirect expense that makes all Americans a lot less rich – insurance. Everything that moves and everything that doesn’t is at least singular insured or often double or tripled insured. Property is a good example of how one entity can be insured three times over by the owner, renter, contractor, sub-contractor. Your body is another example of how things “must be insured” ; no surprise when Obama care came along to do just that.

    • Replies: @densa
  11. Wally says:

    It’s so bad, yet black & brown ‘migrants’ are literally breaking down the doors to get a piece of the ‘racist & inequitable’ action.

  12. Wally says:

    Indeed, The US ‘government’ can also spend billions more on fake ‘holocaust’ Theme Parks where Jews Only get the plum six figure jobs while we send additional billions each year to “that shitty little country”.

    I see no complaint, no mention of that racket from author Rajon Menon.

    Of course not, he’s Zionist supported:

    Menon is the Anne and Bernard Spitzer Professor of International Relations at the Powell School, City College of New York, and Senior Research Fellow at Columbia University’s curiously titled ‘Saltzman Institute of War and Peace Studies’.

  13. Trump makes clear statements, I too like them.
    For me the USA is a third world country, the exceptions are oversized cars and gated communities.
    On one of my visits to the USA I was asked if a child could be medically treated in the Netherlands, the choice for the parents was letting the child die, or sell their house.
    In the Netherlands we have treatments that cost several hundred thousands of euro’s per year, paid for by our medical care system.
    Per person we pay about € 100 per month.
    Pensions, the same.
    Though the EU is busy destroying the best pension systems in the world, those of the Netherlands and the Scandinavian countries, this has not yet succeeded.
    A disaster as the ENRON pension fund cannot happen here.
    The USA is a great country to live in if you’re rich.
    And, of course, if you’re willing to have the illusion that the poor have only themselves to blame for being poor.
    USA society, terrible, in my opinion, 19th century, a moneycracy.
    Eisenhower in his farewell speech warned for the military industrial complex, do not have the impression that anything changed since then.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @WJ
    , @Jeff Stryker
  14. What percentage of the population growth of the United States since 1965 has been a result of immigrants and their descendants?

    You cannot discuss the subject of this article without asking this question. It’s at the very center of the issue.

    • Replies: @Thomm

    One former Army Ranger I knew named Randy had been the one to evacuate Imelda Marcos-she’d refused to get on the plane to Hawaii though the Filipino masses wanted to kill her and Randy was the Army Ranger who forced her onto the military plane.

    Randy had been 26 at the time. He got out of the army and returned to Cleveland. He got a degree in engineering but ended up laying cable. He never made much money. His wife had an affair with an Italian union guy-a petty-ante mobster-and finally divorce raped him. His son ended up in Iraq. His daughter was a crack whore.

    So at 50 in 2010 Randy came back to the Philippines. He’d remembered as dirt cheap and he was a street smart guy.

    Problem was, Imelda returned to the Philippines. She always remembered the American soldier who forced her on the plane.

    Randy kept a low-profile out of fear of assassins, cheap to come buy in the Philippines.

    But he had nowhere else to go. He was not a veteran, only did 6 years in the US armed forces so no pension. His wife got the house, most of his savings. He’d have been living in the worst areas of Cleveland, overrun by ghetto blacks on crack.

    So anyhow, Randy returned to the Philippines and kept a low profile.

    That is a story of the working white middle class in America. It is nothing but pure woe. Divorce rape, child support, black crime always moving outwards, foreign dictators who were supported by the US but hated them, you name it.

    • Replies: @WJ
  16. Ahem says:
    @Carlton Meyer

    Bush the Younger is totally unaware that cotton harvesting is fully automated and has been for many decades. It needs absolutely zero workers picking cotton with their hands.

    He is as unaware of this as he oblivious, to this day, that he, together with Tony Blair, are responsible for triggering the swift genocide of Christians in Iraq and Syria.

    No one has ever told him this.

    He won a friendly book reading competition on books read in one year against Karl Rove. The only history book of the fifty plus books he read in that year involved the history of baseball.

    Bush the Younger will never, ever, discover what he has wrought.

  17. JackOH says:

    We’re getting fucked. I sort of wish we’d all have the moral courage to publicly make that statement to our masters. Maybe 150 million of us on some massive You Tube video, I dunno. I’ve offered plenty of comments on how grim America’s economics look to me. Everything I’ve seen the last three years, since I began commenting here, is pretty much confirmatory of that. There are localized exceptions, that’s about it.

  18. Biff says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    Whites tended to use rubbers

    To correct their mistakes.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
    , @Wally
  19. Patriot says:
    @Carlton Meyer

    Carlton is 100% correct. USA poverty is largely caused by immigration.

    This is what’s so screwy. The Democrats are all pro immigration, as is currently seen with all the “open borders” marches. Yet those millions of foreign workers drive down wages while driving up housing costs, which is is an economic disaster for lower class Americans, the very demographic that the Democrats claim to favor.

    Poor African Americans are sooooooo stupid. They vote for the very political party that keeps them poor.

    Want to raise wages in the USA? Stop importing millions of foreign job theifs and wage slaves.

    5-yr moratorium on all immigration, until we have full employment at livable wages.

    Help Americans first!

    Immigration is Economic Gennocide against African-Americans

  20. Biff says:

    The article cites and writes in the terms of Macroeconomics. You responded with tales of Microeconomics as so many do on this type of subject. Apples and oranges.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  21. mike k says:

    The people around us that we don’t know. Are we our brothers and sisters keepers? Does selfishness trump compassion? If those questions make you uncomfortable, then you will find ways to not answer them.

  22. prusmc says: • Website
    @Carlton Meyer

    Carlton Myer:
    As usual good comment.
    I wonder if someone could ask Professor Menon the same question some one asked an embarrassed Nancy Pelosi: how much are you worth ( Nancy)?

  23. @Patriot

    “Poor African Americans are sooooooo stupid. They vote for the very political party that keeps them poor.”

    “Immigration is Economic Gennocide against African-Americans”

    Well then, I guess one might say that Darwin is at work here, huh?

  24. H. T. says:

    3 weeks after the US-NATO FAILED coup attempt in Georgia (more than 2000 died), the petrodollar [i.e., the banks) “crashed” (and Bush gave more than additional weapons [for more than $1 Billion) to Sakashviili] .

    Moreover, as Mr Kucinich explain, massive transfers occurred between certain banks:

    ALSO, a must: The Truth About Glass-Steagall

    • Replies: @Patriot
  25. anon[228] • Disclaimer says:
    @jilles dykstra

    The USA is a great country to live in if you’re rich.”

    And if you hold large number of slaves known as immigrants from Central and S America
    Immigrants serve same purpose the slaves did . It balances the poor middle class white’s rage that can tilt the anger and hatred against the rich ( mostly white ).

    This situation goes right into the creation of US It missed the social and political and religious changes of 18 th and 19 the centuries which gave birth to pre 2000 political system and social systems of EU .

    Implosion of Soviet lent more credence to the economic-political system of USA because the blind and the deaf evaluated it for teh blind and the deaf who missed the success of the system on the back of African Latin American and Asian poor newly independent ) confused ) countries. Those countries provided the ingredients- moral ,economic,emotional , – to the working white class . It b;bolstered their hatred dismissive attitude to the foreigners and cemented their love for a hateful system that hurt actually the interest of the middle class and poor whites but gave them a sense of connection ,belonging,and partnerships through color language and religion- all are false .
    This is the same mindset that glues the the untouchables and the poor Hindus to the RSS- BJP – Brahmanical system of oppression

  26. WJ says:
    @jilles dykstra

    You have to live here to appreciate the impact that relentless immigration has had on wages. I work in the energy infrastructure business in Texas, Ok, Colorado, Kansas and Arkansas. On some of my projects there are zero or only one non Hispanic workers. I don’t know there citizenship status but since they can’t speak English I can only guess. They have brutally driven down wages so much that young white males are far better off working in the local Walmart than laboring in the hot sun for just a few more dollars/hour.

    Having a stable homogeneous population helps a lot. Not spending trillions on stupid wars or spending billions funding NATO also helps.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @jilles dykstra
  27. @jilles dykstra

    Amsterdam has some awfully third world Moroccan neighborhoods. Muslims in the US seem to immigrate better.

    In a weird way US poverty and lack of social safety network sort of holds the Muslims at bay-they don’t have 5 kids and relax on welfare at the expense of the taxpayer.

    US jails are awful and less immigrants want to commit crimes whereas as a Dutch prison is a joke to a Bulgarian gypsy or North African.

    Of course the situation with health care is an obvious one.

    And agreeably the US is not a first world country for the poor. It is awful, somewhere down there with Eastern Europe’s backwaters.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  28. WJ says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    “He was not a veteran, only did 6 years ….” Wrong. He is a veteran. He (apparently) served more than 180 days straight on active duty and therefore is a veteran, eligible for specified benefits.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  29. Patriot says:
    @H. T.

    H. T., you are correct about Georgia. Note how the truth as been totally reversed by our lying media and government. Every media report about Putin mentiones when he “invaded Georgia” but it was exactly opposite!! The CIA/NSA/Isreal bribed Georgia to surprise-attack Ossetia, which caught the Russians totally offguard. They quickly responded by repulsing the aggressor, Georgia, then pushing into Georgia for a few days, until the Georgians agreed to end their aggression.

    People are so stupid and manipulatable. They can be made to believe all sorts of obviously lies, such as:

    Diversity is our greatest strength
    All races are identical
    America is a democracy, rulled by the people
    War is peace
    Muslims fight us because theyhate freedom and democracy.
    We fight to spread freedom an democracy
    Blacks fail because of Racism

  30. @peterAUS


    The last huge wave of Americans to Oz was air traffic controllers during the early 80’s when Reagan broke the unions.

    That was about 30,000.

    More Americans would immigrate-millions in fact, except that you have to have a niche skill and at the time of the mass immigration of air traffic controllers they had both a niche skill and Australia was a desirable place for middle-class Americans.

    Imagine a country with millions of criminals like Neddy Smith with ghettos that make the rundown suburbs of Melbourne with its Greek and Italian gangsters seem like Disneyland. That is the United States. Sudanese gangs are a JOKE compared to US ghetto blacks.

    US welfare and food stamps are worse than what an Australian would get in jail. Ivan Milat lives better than the average working class American who hits hard times.

    Minimum wage in the US is much lower. Your waitresses and street sweepers do not have to go on food stamps while working 50 hours a week because their wages do not pay enough to feed them twice a day. The US is pure capitalism gone pure amok.

    Australia was settled by working class Brits who bridled at the class system of Britain with its poverty and wealth division-egalitarianism runs deep in Australians. Though Americans are descended from the same poor and working poor European stock, the mentality is different.

    I doubt many people in Perth would prefer to live in the United States if they work in the service-sector.

    No matter how clean-living you are, if you are poor you are the precipice of violence and squalor in the United States. Landlords are awful, petty crime is everywhere, gangs are all over the place, you basically have to bold your apartment door at night like the Transylvanian peasants around Dracula’s castle.

    As for immigrants, the only white people who really want to get into the United States are people from Bulgaria or somewhere. Nobody from Sweden wants to immigrate to Minnesota these days. Germans are not trying to immigrate to Queens. Scottish sure as hell don’t want to immigrate to Central West Virginia.

    • Replies: @JackOH
  31. @WJ

    I never asked what Randy got. He lived in the Philippines somehow and owned a small business, which I will not mention for the sake of his anonymity.

    But Randy never WANTED to return to the Philippines, not really. He simply could not live well in Cleveland. Having served in the Philippines, he knew the lay of the land.

  32. @Biff


    If I had not worn rubbers in college they’d be chasing me for child support. Nobody wants to marry some chick they picked up at the bar because she got pregnant.

    Especially young men with life ahead.

    • Replies: @Biff
    , @RadicalCenter
  33. @Patriot

    Thoughtful comment until the last paragraph, when you drop the mask and reveal your anti-white bias. Inequality and dire poverty are no respecters of skin color. Calling immigration “economic genocide against African-Americans” is selective outrage implying that some poor are more unequal than others.

  34. JackOH says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    Jeff, you’re not wrong about the States, that’s for sure.

    I’m not exactly sure what peterAUS was getting at, but immigrants to the States who do well talk about it. Those who don’t—don’t. If my memory’s okay, about one-third of immigrants returned home during that big burst in the 19th century, and perhaps more would have done so if they hadn’t been impoverished by living here and going nowhere.

    Back in the 1960s through the early 1990s, I was lucky enough to travel to Europe multiple times, and stayed long enough to get some understanding of the place as it was. I was sort of baffled that people with good jobs, engineer for one example, often lived in small apartments and took public transportation. Yet, even the pensioner or waiter living in a tiny apartment could live in security (at that time), shop for necessities within walking distance or ready public transport distance, and live pretty decently, I thought.

    In the States, you need a minimum threshold income to escape the rampant criminality and chaos of city life, and, yep, a lot of that is anti-White Blacks looking for easy targets.

    Two quick thoughts: in the movie Chaplin, Chaplin is made to say, “At bottom, America is good”. The Douglas Fairbanks character, I think, replies, “No, at the top America is good.”

    Rhetorical question: What’s a better place to live? Monocultural France, for example, in the 1960s with your income at the 30th percentile? Or today’s New York City, with an income at the 60th percentile?

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  35. anon[228] • Disclaimer says:

    Its called chickens coming home to roost

    If these Americans thought that there would be no end to the party , then the reality would hurt most and would hurt the most vulnerable.

    These are the people who support wars,sanctions,reelect the lying bastards knows as war president, they also support the forced opening of the foreign societies to the Americans way of doing business , violent regime changes ,and brutal occupations director by proxies.

    And let me let you something “sorry ” doesn’t count.
    This country has gone to war because of 17 hijackers who with no local control and no governmental were not even Afghanistan citizen . That war still continue.
    911 have been heaped on those poor fellows yearly for 17 years .

    There is a blow -back or days of reckoning and it doesn’t have to follow any scripted or accepted norm( for those voters and citizen to accept )

  36. @Jeff Stryker

    Your remarks about the Netherlands alas are true.
    There is the idea ‘w’re rich, they are poor, it is our fault, we should welcome them’.
    These people in Germany are called Gutmenschen, we do not have a name for them, ‘cultural marxism’ is a recent expression.
    We are to blame for anything, colonialism, slavery, Black Pete, names must be changed, Jan Pieterzs Coen can no longer be the name of a tunnel, etc.
    Trump is quite right, immigration destroys our culture, the leader of our Turkish political party recently said that born Dutch, who do not like a changing Netherlands, should leave the country.
    If I were young, I indeed would consider emigration to New Zealand.
    Our prisons, indeed vacation hotels to many from poor countries.
    About non assimilation, the problem is everywhere: France, Belgium, Germany, Sweden.
    Just try to teach those who cannot read or write in their own language a foreign language.
    Dutch employers openly state that a third of the migrants is too stupid for the most simple work.
    But alas, the Gutmenschen, Merkel and Brussels see things differently.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  37. @WJ

    Freed slaves after the Civil War already tried to stop immigration.

  38. peterAUS says:

    That’s one way to look at it.

    Another is to take a look, with own eyes, around you.
    Or….do you trust, ahm, “experts” with their numbers and theories or trust own perception.

    Don’t we live with that shit each and every day?
    Some people telling us what the reality is and all about, and then when we take a good hard look the reality looks quite different.

    Instead of apples and oranges I, personally, believe it’s about extremes.

    I guess that we, “downunder” manage those extremes, if not better, differently.

    So, we don’t have either. That type of rich and poor.

    And, yet….maybe, just maybe, that’s the very reason you, Americans, got where you are: the most powerful nation on Earth.
    The hub of The Empire.

  39. peterAUS says:

    I’m not exactly sure what peterAUS was getting at

    If the life is so bad in USA, how come that net migration from Western countries into USA is higher than the other way around?

    Let’s cut the crap here.
    USA is a land of extremes. People don’t mind that as long as it works in their favor.

    I’d agree with “Stryker” here:

    The US is pure capitalism gone pure amok.


    Australia was settled by working class Brits who bridled at the class system of Britain with its poverty and wealth division-egalitarianism runs deep in Australians. Though Americans are descended from the same poor and working poor European stock, the mentality is different.

    You, Americans, could try to explain to yourself, and to the rest of the World, why is that?
    Greed, perhaps?

    And, let’s again cut the crap.
    You….didn’t mind imposing that shit on the rest of the world as long as it worked well for you.
    Well, that shit works only one way: more and more…So when rich felt the exploitation of foreigners wasn’t giving them enough they turned on you. That is how that shit works. Greed has no limits.
    Your turn now.

    And, yet……you…don’t challenge the very system itself. Only your place within.

    Trump supporters want those good old days. Which are those I wonder: late 50’s….early 60’s?
    Do we need to remind you, us, how it felt for some other parts of the world?

    The problem is structural but….you…don’t challenge that structure. Only your place within it.

    Good luck with that.

    Worse…good luck to all of us.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @JackOH
    , @Jeff Stryker
  40. Thomm says:
    @Stripes Duncan

    What percentage of the population growth of the United States since 1965 has been a result of immigrants and their descendants?

    Hard to say, because some immigrants married pre-1965 Americans too (like, say, Arnold Schwarzenegger or Melania Trump or Ivana Trump). *Many* 2nd-gen children of immigrants married the children of longtime Americans.

    But based on where you draw the line, the answer is 50-60% of the total growth. This also assumes that the birthrates of pre-1965 Americans would have been exactly the same in either event.

  41. @ThreeCranes

    Exactly. The MEDIAN income would be much more revealing. And more bleak.

  42. @Jeff Stryker

    First, we have tens of millions of perpetually unemployed or criminal Africans to pay for, and those countries don’t.

    Second, we now also have millions of Mexicans and other Latinos to subsidize who don’t work, work only part time, or work off the books without paying income and payroll taxes. Australia, Canada, and NZ are blessedly far from Mexico and Latin America and don’t have that problem.

    Third, we waste far more on needless nondefensive wars and occupations, even adjusting for population.

    Those are three mathematically big reasons.

  43. densa says:

    You make a very good point about insurance. It’s a tax and a racket. If you’re self-employed you pay that protection money and it conveniently skims off anything that would have lifted you up.

    It’s all a racket. Defense was expensive, then Reagan privatized it. It became probably the biggest racket.

    Healthcare is a racket. The extra three quarters of a billion a year we pay is skim.

    Education is a racket and a joke. We pay to have them teach the world to exploit us.

    Housing is a complete racket. Imagine if the last bubble had been allowed to pop, if speculators hadn’t been bailed out by the Fed, and if Wall St. hadn’t been allowed to institutionalize the landlord business. Rents would have crashed and all the poor would have had the opportunity for either affordable rent or to buy in at new valuations.

    We get poorer and Wall Street keeps adding zeros while claiming there is no inflation. The GOP appears not to notice and the Dems just want loyalty reward programs that just add to the tax burden and immigrant overload.

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
  44. @Hapalong Cassidy

    Partly right, sir.

    People with low incomes who work do pay federal FICA and Medicare taxes (a whopping 7.65% combined, I think).

    But people with low incomes typically pay ZERO state income tax and ZERO fed income tax.

    Millions of them receive the refundable “Earned Income Tax Credit”, with “refundable” oddly meaning they get more back than they paid in income tax.

    Having a single child in our government (“public”) schools will easily offset whatever such people pay to state and county/local government in sales and excise taxes.

    Having even one adult or one kid on Medicaid, as a majority of Africans and a large plurality of Latinos do, more than offsets what little some of them pay in Medicare taxes.

    For all these reasons, I’d favor a heavy sales tax — and lower to no income tax except on the very highest incomes — to fund the food stamps, medical care, schooling, and other assistance we provide to tens of millions of people whose families pay no federal or state income tax for decades on end. Take care of them, but make them pay a fairer share.

  45. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:

    The good old days lasted from the beginning of the post WW2 boom 1946 to 1973 when the oil embargo * caused rampant inflation coupled with wage freezes and the first wave of third world immigrants brought in because of the 1965 immigration act

    * oil embargo and inflation happened when Nixon and Kissinger shipped every American army tank in Europe to our sovereign Lord, Israel and sent American troops to fight for Israel during the 1973 war.

    So the King of Saudi Arabia declared economic war on Israel’s colonial troops, the USA military.
    The good old days were less than 20 years.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  46. peterAUS says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    VERY good questions.

    Don’t know the answer, of course.

    What I do know about and just have a feeling it’s important is two words: CLASS WAR.

    Now, here, both in Australia and NZ a working stiff is quite aware of that concept.
    The relationship between capital and labor is very well understood.
    Hell, we have Labour parties here.

    You don’t…can’t..don’t want to see that concept..I actually do not know and, honestly, don’t get it.

    It feels (feels, mind you) that you, American working stiffs, simply can not grasp that concept.

    Maybe the problem, or solution is there. Getting that concept first and then, hopefully, doing something about it.

    Makes sense?

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  47. JackOH says:

    peterAUS, I was actually responding to Stryker, and I mentioned that one-third of immigrants returned whence they came from memory, and it’s a figure that seems plausible to me given my knowledge of my local area’s immigrant population.

    Don’t know about that “net migration from Western countries” as you don’t cite a source, and I don’t have the expertise to interpret how many of those Western immigrants are, say, Tunisians, who’ve used France or Germany as a way station to the States.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  48. peterAUS says:

    Don’t know about that “net migration from Western countries” as you don’t cite a source, and I don’t have the expertise to interpret how many of those Western immigrants are, say, Tunisians, who’ve used France or Germany as a way station to the States.

    Well…what difference does it make, for this topic?

    “Native” German/Frenchman or a recent immigrant from one of world shitholes, same thing, I guess, for the topic.
    Why would they, “native” or “those…….”, move from a better to worse place of living?
    Again, I know people from here, both proper “locals” (Anglo-Saxon blood….) and the recent immigrants (Indians, Chinese etc.).
    MORE of them move into USA (or, better, try hard to do that) then the same…….(“native” Americans and those Indians/Chinese/whatever) from USA into Australia and/or New Zealand.

    Wouldn’t really make any sense if the life here were better than in USA.

    What I feel the article and American comments are missing is just simple word: OPPORTUNITY.

    USA gives much, much more of that than we have it here.

    I mean, we are talking basic human nature here. That’s what article misses.

    USA gives that chance, opportunity, to make it…if you are good and/or lucky.
    Sky is the limit. If you are good and/or lucky.
    Sky at one side….deep gutter at the other.

    We can’t reach that sky here. True, we can’t reach that gutter either.
    A package.

    We just should be honest enough to accept that.

    A couple of acquaintances of mine, in the same industry, who “made it”, when we talk, can shame me with ease with their numbers. Pay, size of a house, cars…blah….blah….MONEY.
    And, and here is the crux, I can’t shame them with a beach, park, atmosphere…….if you know what I mean.

    Greed mate…..greed.……..always wins.

    The losers in the game of greed, in USA, don’t mind the game.
    They just mind their place in it.

    Good luck.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  49. JackOH says:

    peterAUS, yeah, if you have colleagues, friends, acquaintances and so on in the States who are doing well, and better than they’d be doing in Australia, well–you don’t have to explain.

    You’re right to question the good faith of the commenters here. Do we in the States who comment here on Unz Review actually have the grievances we say we have, or are we trying to explain away our own personal and professional failures with high-flown political talk? Or are we commenting just to vent steam?

    I’ll just toss this out: I think many comments (not most, not all) here are from high-ability types who are genuinely distressed that the talent they bring to America’s “greed game” is not being recognized according to the rules they believed in. Crony and patronage hiring in government work is the most obvious example.

    Do yourself a favor and put together a sort of “America immigration package”: newspaper clippings, correspondence with employers or industry associations, personal e-mails. I put together something of the sort when I thought of leaving the States. Helps give focus.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Jeff Stryker
  50. peterAUS says:

    Do we in the States who comment here on Unz Review actually have the grievances we say we have, or are we trying to explain away our own personal and professional failures with high-flown political talk? Or are we commenting just to vent steam?

    “Steam” option 80 %
    “Explain away” option 15 %.
    “Grievances” option 5 %.

    Problem with the last group is that guys there aren’t, say, at the level to offer any meaningful suggestion as to solution to the problem.
    Me included, because the same game, true a bit less, is played around here too.

    Besides, not many comments either. One could assume that the problem is minimal, actually. Not much worth discussing.
    I mean, minimal compared to eternal topics as “JFK”, “9/11”, “Liberty” and the biggest of all of them, “Dem Joos”.

    Funny, a?

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  51. Biff says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    It’s a pun.

    Ask someone from England what a rubber is. They would tell you it is nothing you would want to put on your dick.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  52. @jilles dykstra

    “New Zealand”

    The tech millionaires in the US all have New Zealand passports. Being liberals AND 1% they are in the know about just how bad the US might become and they’ve got the contingency passport to leave like the British South Africans did. If the US were to get twice as bad as it is now, the 1% would pull a “white flight” and leave the white middle-class as fast as the English South Africans abandoned the Boers.

    “Vacation hotels”

    This is the carrot vs. a huge black AIDS-infected penis up the backside in a prison shower and why US Gypsies are the best-behaved Gypsies on the planet…they know that if they go into a US prison for petty crimes they will have to submit to duties as woman/sex slave to a Jax Teller or Tony Soprano white criminal boss in order to keep from being raped by ghetto blacks or passed around for candy bars in a US penal institution (No pun intended).

    “Germany and Trump”

    Trump is a true Bavarian-to see the real pre-WWII German culture one has to be around the children/grandchildren of Bavarian immigrants to Queens, NY or Austin, Texas like the son of Frederich Trump. The true Bavarian brash, barking junkyard dog was preserved in the German-American boroughs of Queens where Donald was raised by his German father or in the “hill country” of Texas.


    Muslims in Europe don’t have to assimilate to obtain protein. In the US they lack the numbers of Hispanics and no generous social safety net pays for their children’s medical care and the criminal world is run by blacks and Mexicans and poor whites so there is no way of getting by selling cocaine to tourists outside the Central Station in Amsterdam to get buy.

    Moreover, a Saudi businessman or Egyptian doctor is different than a Berber who wants to take over the drug rackets.

  53. @Biff

    Sorry, a “johnny” to use Brit slang.

    • Replies: @Biff
  54. @peterAUS

    Britain founded the US and Australia on the same principle of thinning out an underclass but why the US treats its working middle class and working class whites with such contempt is a good question.

    If you spend time in Earl’s Court you observe that Australian working class whites who would be living in battered trailers or awful apartments in the US and lacking even a high school education are essentially middle-class.

    Insofar as class is concerned, it does not really seem to exist in Australia. Its actually a dirty word. Whereas in the US class is inexorably tied to earning power.

    Your immigrants seem to integrate better as well (Barring the Muslims and the Vietnamese). Greeks and Italians have some cultural differences in Melbourne but it was never the awful, corrupt, mob-run nightmare of the Sopranos North Jersey.

  55. @peterAUS

    Australians have much more “liberty” than the average American. This is because the US requires a police state to handle the proclivities of blacks and Hispanics.

    I would actually venture to say that the higher wages in the Australian service-sector are also contributors. More (Though not all) blacks in the US would probably accept jobs in fast food or whatever if they paid as well as they do in Australia. But in the US ghetto if you can make $300 a day selling crack cocaine or stealing cars and you cannot pay your bills in Burger King, you’re going to make an obvious choice. If female, you’ll peddle ass.

    Being from Detroit, I’m semi-sympathetic to the choices facing blacks. Prison is not that bad for those who live in squalor and miss meals. And blacks have a more fluid definition of homosexuality, so the receptive partner in jail is a “bitch”. Therefore, if you are making a living in the underground economy it is less tempting to throw it over to be a minimum wage worker.

    In Australia, probably LESS blacks would be criminals. It just would not be as tempting to sell crack cocaine when minimum wage is 17 dollars and won’t get you killed.

    Finally, the problem with Vietnamese immigration/heroin epidemic of the “Pure Shit” film-era was the result of the Vietnam War. Americans created that immigration crisis for Australia.

  56. @peterAUS


    “How come net migration into US is greater”

    Because Australia and NZ have the strictest immigration policies on the planet-they did not even want US Navy’s poor blacks and whites DOCKING in Australia.

    Any old Indian fraudster or Vietnamese heroin dealer can enter Australia but the average middle-class American plumber or electrician…fuggeddaboutit (I know because I applied).

    The last huge wave of US immigrants to Australia was in 1981 when Reagan broke the Air Traffic Controller’s union strike because these folks had a niche.

    “How it felt in other parts of the world?”

    Mel Gibson’s family wanted to escape the poverty of Irish-Americans in New York in the early 60’s so Australia could not have been THAT BAD compared to the U.S. Australia never had the poor ethnic slums that Italians or Irish were still languishing in when Mel Gibson was born-your Italians and Greeks immigrated to SUBURBS in Melbourne!

    In the 1950’s American and Australia were still the “country cousins” of the British Empire to some degree.


    Well, you have the world Murdoch and Neddy Smith and so on-a few greedy characters were unleashed on the world from Australia.


    I’d say the biggest impact that the US had on Australia was the Vietnam War and subsequent boat people crisis.

    “Structural change”

    In Australia such a thing is possible where there is such direct participation that a chip shop owner named Polly can do something to affect change. But the poor in the US are SO POOR and so geographically removed the centers of power and politics that such a thing is impossible. Australia is inherently more egalitarian than America. Or used to be.

    I’ve a feeling that now that the Chinese Kleptocrats and Tycoons have discovered property-developed in Australia you are going to end up with an alien and indifferent 1 % though.

  57. @Anon

    American troops did not fight for Israel in the war against Egypt, barring some Jewish Vietnam vets.

    Eisenhower QUASHED the proposed invasion of Egypt by Britain and Israel in the 1950’s and sided with Nasser (Of course in those days the US was still run by WASP elites and Irish-Catholics).

    I was born in the 1970’s and it has to be said that there were more factors than an oil embargo. There was women entering the work force which lowered wages. There was the suppression of a decent minimum wage. There was Vietnam. There was drugs starting with LSD and pot but then cocaine and then crack and then meth and now Oxy (And epidemic I missed out on, the poor whites were still “tweaking” when I left the US in 1999).

  58. Biff says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    Just to clarify, a rubber in England is a pencil eraser.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  59. @Biff

    And a condom is a “Johnnie”

    Yes, like most Americans I spent some time in Earl’s Court as young backpacker and no some slang.


    “Apples and Oranges”

    Australia wanted so little to do with US blacks that during the Vietnam war the US navy vessels were not permitted to dock in Sydney. They did not even want the black Navy sailors for shore leave for 8 hours. Which makes sense, actually, because it takes all of 40 minutes for blacks to dock off a US vessel and get into a melee.

    Lebanese in Australia seem to something of a criminally-inclined lot and Sudanese blacks are now a social problem.

    But there is something about Latin American Indians and Mestizos or US blacks. They are just the most violence-prone and brutal races on earth.

  61. @JackOH

    I’m a middle-class white guy who obtained a degree in graphic arts and a minor in economics. Bachelor’s degree.

    You could call me working middle-class white.

    And for middle working class whites, the US is an awful place. It depends upon the geography. You might be better off in certain places but overall, your life will be a pile of shit out of somebody’s asshole in the United States on $40,000 a year or under.

    You’ll live in neighborhoods where your property is worth shit because blacks and Latinos gradually move into them. The end of this cycle is Detroit or parts of Los Angeles.

    The poor whites are not much better. There is drug abuse, horrendous Whiggers prancing around, general ass wipe behavior.

    Your kids will go to lousy public schools and the blacks and Hispanics will make obtaining an education difficult. If anything, they will get a criminal education. They might start smoking pot at 12 and graduating to meth or coke by 16.

    Moving out to rural white areas is not a solution. Agriculture is big business and small town economies are post-industrial decline.

    Police are aggressive and trigger happy because they are now dealing with Mexican cartels in addition to black thugs. Driven by a harsh economy, they are trying to reach quotas.

    White proles really live in a hell in the US. In Australia or Canada there is some general concern for white proles but the US government does not seem to care a whit. It is halfway to being a Boer under Nelson Mandela.

    You might ask yourself what a white working middle-class guy who moves overseas from the United States has to lose? Probably nothing.

    • Replies: @The Plutonium Kid
  62. Biff says:

    Police are aggressive and trigger happy because they are now dealing with Mexican cartels in addition to black thugs. Driven by a harsh economy, they are trying to reach quotas.

    Police are aggressive because they are trained that way, in addition to being an American, which by their nature are aggressive pricks.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  63. @Biff

    “Aggressive pricks”

    The average Chinese-American from California is not as aggressive as the average Glaswegian you might run into abroad.

    You need to specify the “American”. A white Southerner? Unsurprising, they came out of the back-alleys of Glasgow and Belfast.

    A Jew from Manhattan? I’m not sure.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  64. @Jeff Stryker

    True. Maybe we shouldn’t be having sex with women we don’t know well in the first place — and love. I’m not saying I’m innocent there, just that it’s not right.

  65. peterAUS says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    Still onto the topic?

    As for right now, here is how it looks like re comments on this site:
    Oddities of the Jewish Religion: 591
    Feeding the Monster (about “Dem Joos” too): 602
    The JFK Assasination, part 1:1,142
    Part 2:853
    David Irving, Jewish Power, both over 500

    And this one…hehehe…..65 (sixty five).

    Now….pray tell, what conclusion one could draw from that , clearly observable, fact?

    Just crackup.

  66. @Jeff Stryker

    White proles really live in a hell in the US. In Australia or Canada there is some general concern for white proles but the US government does not seem to care a whit. It is halfway to being a Boer under Nelson Mandela.

    It isn’t merely indifference, it’s open hostility. The left keeps up a constant barrage of anti-white race baiting because they need it to hold their fragile coalition together.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  67. @peterAUS


    The first response of the average white American backpacker in Earl’s Court who has been street-roughened as all white Americans are by experiences with blacks and the poverty going hand-in-hand with pure Capitalism is that Australian young people seemed rather well-off and unseasoned by the ravages of being the average white in the US.

    Australian young people all seem middle-class, as if some tide has lifted all boats. Mind you, I did not meet Lebanese or Italian kids from tough Melbourne suburbs because these guys cannot afford to travel to London. Similarly, I never met an Australian aboriginal in Earl’s Court.

    But overall, white Australians seemed to all have the same basic amenities. An education, obviously never missed a meal in their life, no wariness from a lifetime of avoiding black or Hispanic gangs.

    The downside to this is that the Chinese are bringing an absolute brutal cutthroat capitalism to Sydney and Kleptocracy-mindset that is driving property-prices up and forcing white Australians out. Worse in New Zealand. Whereas in the United States Chinese find themselves surrounded by other cutthroat capitalists who’ve already erected barriers to property, business etc.

    As for Australians who make money in the United States, this is merely a supply/demand skill-set thing. They are not born there and they can, and probably will, leave.

    I recall a specialized Australian female nurse who discussed Miami and how awful she thought it was. Her experience was a reminder that whites in the US grow accustomed to these things.

  68. @The Plutonium Kid

    “Open Hostility”

    When the rural white working class prole is young, he is often a swaggering hick braggart-to the eyes of the wary, street-smart middle-class East Coast “liberal”.

    He (Or she) make life decisions that make little sense to the bubble-city “climber”, like marrying at 20 and having a child at 21 instead of slogging through 5-10 years of college.

    They are not particularly materialistic and have little understanding of money or its importance. They are not street smart urchins of the metal canyons on the NYC-Chicago-LA axis.

    Nor are they worldly. They’ve never been overseas, or been out of their state, or have any understanding of geopolitics. They are townies, another words. Rubes. Hicks. Geography and globalism mean nothing to them.

    Their parents, always young and always cash-strapped, cannot easily provide them with many amenities. They go to public schools most of the time and in the exurbs the blacks pummel them. In any event, they struggle to get through high school.

    Finally, there is drugs. Crack sweeps through, then meth, these days it is “hillbilly heroin”.

    So the white middle-class in the suburbs who busted ass in lousy jobs to become a lawyer or a dentist or some other white-collar factotum cannot muster up much sympathy for the manual laborer who got married at 20 and 2 or 3 kids and developed a meth-habit as a teenager in the 90’s and wracked up a few convictions and is completely powerless and dispossessed at the age of 40 in 2018.

    The average white collar suburban or urban liberal, while considering themselves a brother to the worker, is privately snickering that any white could be so uneducated and base that a jungle Indian from Peru can take his job…until an Indian grabs his.

    The bulwark of the white working class are the police and military-those people that globalization and outsourcing won’t replace.

    In terms of the Democratic “coalition”, it is hard for gays and blacks and Hispanics to find much commonality. One group wants acceptance and the others merely want money. Which is logical. But as an ideological glue, its not cohesive.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  69. JackOH says:

    ” . . .[N]o wariness from a lifetime of avoiding black or Hispanic gangs.”

    Jeff, you can probably save your breath. No one outside the States understands the Black-White thing here. You say “Black”, and Europeans are thinking polished upmarket African, or a decent, middling mixed-race guy, and so on. I worked with an upmarket Haitian guy, polished and educated, married to a surgeon’s daughter. He was truly horrified that he’d occasionally run into American Blacks who called him “cuz”, and wanted to knock knuckles.

    Black crime rates, and the evacuation of cities by Whites and by middling Blacks ought to speak for themselves.

  70. Bill Jones says: • Website

    As an e bankster, I agree.

  71. peterAUS says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    So……..what is your take on, apparently, lack of interest for this topic, on this Website?

    People visiting/posting on this site see the topic as not important?
    People visiting/posting on this site not smart/competent/knowledgeable about the topic?
    People visiting/posting on this site don’t actually care for the plight of those at the bottom?
    Combination of all of the above?

    Or something else?

    I have a theory, of course, but you first.

    I mean. looks like only two of us, apparently, care about the topic.
    Funny, a?

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  72. @peterAUS


    Though many of the posters on this site from the States are proles, none of them would want to raise minimum wage to the degree that Australia has. They would complain that this would raise the price of things even if it cleared the US roads of homeless whites and some blacks decided to stop selling crack cocaine to 12 years old kids because being a waiter or bartender at Australian wages allows a person a fairly decent standard of living.

    Anything approaching decent wages, taxes spent on infrastructure instead of Middle Eastern toilet bowls like Syria or Iraq that are only worsened when US boots touch the ground or some sort of social safety net for retirees would be approaching pure Marxism.

    To some degree this is racial, as whites do not want to pay taxes to blacks on welfare or to have their right to own a firearm rescinded.

    So the poorest white proles resist these measurements.

    The US can go on and on about having the greatest space program or whatever but it possesses the most third world conditions of any G-8 country on earth.

    For example, when you get into the interior in Florida 20 miles from Disneyland you’ll see poverty in the swamps that would make you think you were in New Guinea.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  73. t-gordon says:

    Nickel and Dimed was a self fulfilling sob story meant to reinforce the notion that “you just can’t make it anymore”. I’d highly recommend Scratch Beginnings by Adam Shepard which he lived and wrote to counter Ms. Ehrenreich’s book. It’s hard, it’s very hard out there/here. Subscribing to the notion that “You just can’t make it anymore, so why try” makes it damn near impossible. So it goes.

  74. peterAUS says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    Though many of the posters on this site from the States are proles, none of them would want to raise minimum wage to the degree that Australia has. They would complain that this would raise the price of things even if it cleared the US roads of homeless whites and some blacks decided to stop selling crack cocaine to 12 years old kids because being a waiter or bartender at Australian wages allows a person a fairly decent standard of living.


    Anything approaching decent wages, taxes spent on infrastructure instead of Middle Eastern toilet bowls like Syria or Iraq that are only worsened when US boots touch the ground or some sort of social safety net for retirees would be approaching pure Marxism.

    I know.

    Anyway, we are wasting time talking about the topic.
    Things will need to get much worse before there is even a slim chance to get better.
    Much worse.

  75. @peterAUS


    Things probably will remain the same in the United States. I don’t see anything changing.

    Australian might worsen simply because it has imported Sudanese and other groups that do not seem to understand Western culture.

    You’ve also got the Asians with money pricing the middle-class out of parts of the city.

    But the US always had entrenched underclasses, and as one poster put it, this has a huge impact. Australia has had a some Vietnamese boat people and a few Sudanese punks.

  76. @peterAUS


    What difference does it make to Australians if Americans live in worse poverty at the bottom of the social/economic slag heap?

    Why do you care if our immigrants can expect less from the government than Sudanese immigrants?

    There is no arguing the fact that wealth divisions between rich/poor in the United States have always been vaster than those of Australia, a country settled mostly by lower middle class and working class Brits intent on ditching the class differences of UK for a more egalitarian society.

    You have to remember that from the absolute beginning, the United States was formed by greed and a desire to make money. That is the absolute only reason white emigrants came to the United States. Whites moved to Australia, on the other hand, to live in a country free of the class system and the English government simply wanted to thin out an underclass by dispersing them to a distant colonial frontier.

    There is no debating that the US is a far worse place to be stupid, talentless or just plain unlucky to have been born into poverty. If you need any empirical evidence, visit Detroit.

    Yet Australians like you are endlessly fascinated with this rather self-evident fact.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  77. peterAUS says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    Well…..let’s just say that you didn’t get the reason why I am interested in this very topic. That’s fine.

    I do appreciate your input here, for a couple of reasons.

    One of them,a “man on the ground” insights, as:

    ……from the absolute beginning, the United States was formed by greed and a desire to make money…..


    ….the US is a far worse place to be stupid, talentless or just plain unlucky to have been born into poverty.

    And…haha….I am definitely not “endlessly fascinated” by that fact.

    If we really want to define and measure that interest, it’s related to some other, easily observable and self-evident, facts.

    In any case……we’ll see.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  78. “Man on the Ground”

    If you’re a white prole like me and you can make a living in Asia you’re probably better off there.

    When I moved to Dubai from Phoenix because of a chance job offer, I had share a flat with another expat but it was much better than having black crackheads stare at you with bulging bloodshot eyes every time you left your apartment because you could not afford to live elsewhere. A white won’t be mugged at a bus stop in Dubai at 6 PM by Latinos because the route runs through the barrio-South Asian workers are appallingly poor in Dubai but they cannot get their hands on a firearm. Meth addicted white proles are not demanding money in parking lots and sometimes stabbing you to get it.

    The odd thing is that many white Americans will refer to the Arab world as a “toilet bowl” when in fact the infrastructure is much better and newer.

    I drank in Dubai and smoked pot occasionally. Prostitutes were everywhere. So it was not Muslim despotism.

    Your average American expat worker or retiree in Asia will tell you that he lives in Southeast Asia because it is simply safer than what he could afford in the US and his standard of living is higher. In fact Thailand looks far less Third World than Detroit or Pittsburgh-anybody from some dilapidated Podunk town or post-decline city on this website who tells me that Bangkok or Singapore is “dirt world” simply displays their unworldliness from lacking the money to travel anywhere.

    Its not impossible to get beaten up in Southeast Asia. I was once put into a headlock by a Korean over a refrigerator I sold him that needed a current adapter. But this is not the racial hatred and out-of-nowhere blitz attacks whites face in US cities from blacks or Hispanics.

    Some of the Americans on this site will say that you can “move to the country”. This is absurd for someone with a skill-set that is not in the agricultural sector.

    So this my “man-on-the-street” opinion of the white prole who simply moved abroad at a young age because he was not born into the posh suburbs and would not be inheriting a house he could sell and was robbed a few times by blacks and Hispanics.

  79. @peterAUS


    Skilled Australians moving to the US are like some New York street whore who lands in an Australian mining town on payday. Yes, they are going to be amply compensated and their temporary living standard will be relatively high. The average Aboriginal “Sheila” is going to have a different perception of the same mining town than an average-looking New York prostitute who made her fortune off Argyle workers on the streets.

    That is the only comparison I can make. Australian mining towns are apt to be terrible for the average aboriginal female who is too ugly even to get screwed by mining employees who would stick their dicks in pencil sharpeners. If an average-looking white street whore went to the same mining town she’d say Australia was the land of opportunity.

    See my point?

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