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By overwhelming margins the U.S. Senate and House of Representatives voted on September 28th to override President Barack Obama’s veto of the Justice Against Sponsors of Terrorism Act (JASTA). Obama had noted that the Act would have negative consequences for U.S. officials overseas as it establishes the principle that governments can be held accountable in the courts for what they do. Prior to this legislation Washington generally respected the principle of sovereign immunity, which means in practice that governments resolve issues between themselves by negotiation, not through litigation.
With Congress now demanding foreign government accountability it is reasonable to assume that other countries might respond in kind by establishing reciprocity based on the language in JASTA, which would mean that serving or former American officials might be detained and tried for criminal actions undertaken by the U.S. in its war on terror. It might also lead to other suits against the United States government that would result in demands for what is already being described as “intrusive discovery” of documents relating to clandestine American operations overseas. In a letter President Obama has described JASTA as allowing foreign litigants to “second-guess our counterterrorism operations and other actions that we take every day” while Secretary of Defense Ash Carter assailed the “ability of foreign litigants to seek classified intelligence and analysis.” CIA Director John Brennan denounced the “associated risks to our national security,” adding that the bill harbored “grave implications” for national security with a “downside [that is] potentially huge.”
So-called State Sponsors of terrorism Syria, Iran and Sudan can already be sued in American courts but JASTA considerably broadens the playing field to permit additional litigation. Supporters of the Act insist that their intention is only to enable suits directed against Saudi Arabia, which might have been either complicit or negligent in its dealings with the alleged terrorists who carried out 9/11, 15 of whom were Saudis, but the language is actually much broader than that. The actual text, which does not specifically name Saudi Arabia, reads: “A foreign state shall not be immune from the jurisdiction of the courts of the United States in any case in which money damages are sought against a foreign state for physical injury to person or property or death occurring in the United States and caused by an act of international terrorism in the United States.”
The Act reproduces the U.S. Code definition of “international terrorism” which “means activities that (A) involve violent acts or acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State, or that would be a criminal violation if committed within the jurisdiction of the United States or of any State; (B) appear to be intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination or kidnapping; and (C) occur primarily outside the territorial jurisdiction of the United States, or transcend national boundaries in terms of the means by which they are accomplished, the persons they appear intended to intimidate or coerce, and the locale in which their perpetrators operate or seek asylum.”
I am all for the United States and Saudi Arabia (and others) being held accountable for war crimes and other unlawful behavior to include drones, renditions, torture and target assassinations but it will almost certainly be difficult to prove “knowing or reckless” criminal intent in court even with the new legislation. Also the Act opens up a Pandora’s box of possibilities that I am sure the Congressmen were not thinking of when they cast their votes. While the bill was drafted in such a fashion as to make an unnamed Saudi Arabia the actual target it also can be used against Pakistan, which may have funded the hijackers, and even Germany, where some of those involved in 9/11 lived for a time. It can plausibly be claimed that Islamabad and Berlin had some prior knowledge of the attack which they chose not to share, making them complicit, and the respective governments would have to appear in a U.S. court to demonstrate their innocence. In so doing, they might even demand in their defense that the United States government produce documentary evidence regarding what really did occur on 9/11, something the White House would surely want to avoid.
But the potentially biggest secondary target of the new legislation would without a doubt be Israel. The Israeli role in 9/11, insofar as can be determined, has never been seriously investigated at all and any suppositions or conclusions regarding its activities were never included in the final 9/11 Commission Report.
In 2001 Israel was running a massive spying operation directed against Muslims either resident or traveling in the United States. The operation included the creation of a number of cover companies in New Jersey, Florida and also on the west coast that served as spying mechanisms for Mossad officers. The effort was supported by the Mossad Station in Washington D.C. and included a large number of volunteers, the so-called “art students” who traveled around the U.S. selling various products at malls and outdoor markets. The FBI was aware of the numerous Israeli students who were routinely overstaying their visas and some in the Bureau certainly believed that they were assisting their country’s intelligence service in some way, but it proved difficult to link the students to actual undercover operations, so they were regarded as a minor nuisance.
But the hands-off attitude towards Israeli spying shifted dramatically when, on September 11, 2001, a New Jersey housewife saw something from the window of her apartment building, which overlooked the World Trade Center. She watched as the buildings burned and crumbled but also noted something strange. Three young men were kneeling on the roof of a white transit van parked by the water’s edge, making a movie in which they featured themselves high fiving and laughing in front of the catastrophic scene unfolding behind them. The woman wrote down the license plate number of the van and called the police, who responded quickly and soon both the local force and the FBI began looking for the vehicle, which was subsequently seen by other witnesses in various locations along the New Jersey waterfront, its occupants “celebrating and filming.”
The license plate number revealed that the van belonged to a New Jersey registered company called Urban Moving Systems. At 4 p.m. the vehicle was spotted and pulled over. Five men between the ages of 22 and 27 years old emerged. They were detained at gunpoint and handcuffed. They were all Israelis. One of them had $4,700 in cash hidden in his sock and another had two foreign passports. Bomb sniffing dogs reacted to the smell of explosives in the van. The driver told the police “We are Israeli. We are not your problem. Your problems are our problems. The Palestinians are the problem.” The men were detained at the Bergen County jail in New Jersey before being transferred the FBI’s Foreign Counterintelligence Section, which handles allegations of spying.
After the arrest, the FBI obtained a warrant to search the offices of the van’s registered owner, Urban Moving System of Weehawken, N.J. Papers and computers were seized. The company owner Dominick Suter, also an Israeli, answered FBI questions but when a follow-up interview was set up a few days later it was learned that he had fled the country for Israel, putting both his business and home up for sale. The office space and warehouse were abandoned. It was later learned that Suter has been associated with at least fourteen businesses in the United States, mostly in New Jersey and New York but also in Florida, which was determined to be a main focus for the Israeli intelligence operation in the U.S. that was directed against Arabs.
The five Israelis were held in Brooklyn, initially on charges relating to visa fraud. FBI interrogators questioned them for more than two months. Several were held in solitary confinement so they could not communicate with each other and two of them were given repeated polygraph exams, which they failed. The two men that the FBI focused on most intensively were believed to be Mossad staff officers and the other three were volunteers helping with surveillance. Even though the Israelis were not exactly cooperative, the FBI concluded from documents obtained at their office in Weehawken that they were targeting Arabs in New York and New Jersey, including at least two of the 9/11 hijackers.
There are a lot a dots all leading back to Israel that might well have been connected once upon a time, but the trail has grown cold. Police records in New Jersey and New York where the men were held have disappeared and FBI interrogation reports are inaccessible. Media coverage of the case also died, though the five were referred to in the press as the “dancing Israelis” and by some, more disparagingly, as the “dancing Shlomos.”
Inevitably, the George W. Bush White House intervened. After 71 days in detention, the five Israelis were released from prison, put on a plane, and deported. Now it is just possible that Mossad affiliated Urban Moving was indeed uninvolved in 9/11 but it also must be recognized that Israel had the means, ability and access required to bring down the World Trade Center using controlled pancake explosions. More than fifteen years later it is perhaps past time to reveal what exactly the FBI knew and currently knows about both the scale and modus operandi of Israeli espionage in the United States. Did Israel have critical intelligence either in broad outline or possibly in specific detail about 9/11 and let it happen to bind Washington more closely to it in a “global war on terror?”
Questions about just what happened on 9/11 will not go away. Green Party presidential candidate Jill Stein has called for a new “independent investigation” because the Bush administration’s initial 9/11 inquiry was “dominated by members with an interest in protecting the reputation and careers of foreign affairs and intelligence communities.” It “was not given enough money, time, or access to relevant classified information.” That “classified information” could well include the role of Israel.
I am no lawyer, but it would seem to me that both Israel and Saudi Arabia might well be pretty good places to start in using litigation to determine just who could have been involved in what was to become the 9/11 terrorist attack. It would indeed be ironic if an Israel-loving Congress has, through its passage of JASTA to squeeze money out of the Saudis, also inadvertently opened the door to finding out just what the Mossad and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu were up to back in 2001.
Sorry, but until a tipping point of public opinion is reached demanding a full, open and independent investigation nothing will happen. Perhaps a simple but massive campaign of bumper stickers and handbills would help. Israel flouts international laws when it suits it anyway.
http://www.unz.com/article/jasta-opens-many-doors/#comment-1596666
“Dude…that was like 15 years ago…”
I for one, don’t want to here any more talk about Terror… etc.
It’s nothing but crap.
They got the Terror thing going on biggtime don’t worry! How’s about we drop a nuc on ya?
How’s about we drop a few head choppers on ya?….!
How’s about we…. who is we? who… Well we are the bastards that do what we want… and you can read about it in your leasure… We make the history that you yokals read about…. haha
Now I remember this jerk (Philip Giraldi)…he’s our friendly CIA buddy who would never lie to us! I thought his name sounded familiar…I just couldn’t place it.
I don’t follow most of these idiot bloggers, ’cause they’re not worth following, but this guy here is definitely controlled-op. There are mountains of evidence pointing straight at Israel, and to the Zionist elements within the US gov, and the MSM, which is completely controlled by Jews.
Unz, don't tell me my hope we were finished with the likes of this in comments here were misplaced.
What does it take? As soon as you see one "jerk" or "idiot", the comment gets scrapped.
Who sent the anthrax in the mail?
Another thought provoking article by Philip Giraldi
The American Congress would never consciously do anything to bite the hand that feeds (bribes), it. However, inadvertently, it might have opened the door to letting the cat out of the bag (as we say).
The 5 ‘Dancing’ Israelis, with their Zionist connections, have established a trail that leads all the way back to the Rothschilds and other powerful Zionist Oligarch families.
There are known a set of undeniable facts:
1. 5 Dancing Israelis were filming and celebrating the destruction of the World Trade Center Towers on 9/11.
2. The ‘Dancing’ Israelis were arrested by American Police – FBI and jailed for 71 days – before being (mysteriously) freed, without any explanation being given to the American people.
3. These ‘Dancing’ Israelis blamed the Palestinians for being a, somehow (in some context), a “problem.” [The obvious problem - being that, as long as one Palestinian breathes, or the Human Race remembers Palestine, the Jewish People will be condemned for all conscious eternity for their ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian People, and their terrorist brutality against Palestinians, and all other Arab peoples.]
“We are Israeli. We are not your problem. Your problems are our problems. The Palestinians are the problem.”
4. The political direction (intent), of the utterance by one of the 5 ‘Dancing’ Israelis, implies that the destruction of the Towers, and the deaths of thousands of Americans, was somehow a necessary act of Zionist solidarity with American imperialism. The statement implies (insists), that -The means justify the ends, and, conversely, the ends justify the means.
5. The 5 ‘Dancing’ Israelis, by their utterances, as well as their actions, define with pinpoint accuracy, the meaning of and advocacy for, and practice of – Terrorism.
6. Neither Killery Clinton, Casino Trump, or Jill Stein, will mention the 5 ‘Dancing’ Israelis, when they refer to the tragic act of Terror on 9/11.
7. The 5 ‘Dancing’ Israelis, were/are agents of the Zionist land Thieves, who knew of the 9/11 terrorist attack on the World Trade Center - (in advance), before it happened. The ‘dancers’ were in position, with their Truck, and Cameras, in time to film the act of Terror against the American People. They were ready, and in place, and quite happy, and quite arrogant (as their statements to the arresting American Police prove).
8. The 5 ‘Dancing’ Israelis’ utterance of “Your problems are our problems.” exposes a propagandistic misdirection lie on their part. It is, actually, a sad fact, that the Zionist Land Thieves, (who began their carnage of Genocide and Ethnic Cleansing in the Mid-East at Jericho, where they massacred every man, woman, and child, (as the walls came tumbling down), have made their “problems,” our, American problems, as well as the problems of every other nation on our Planet.
It is recorded and celebrated in the Old Testament:
The ‘crime’ of the occupants of Jericho (Palestine), that brought such evil terror down upon them, is that they were indigenous inhabitants – residing in an area that was desired by the ISIS-er terrorist Hebrews. The sad story of the extermination of the occupants of Jericho, is to be found in The Old Testament of the Christian Bible. The extermination of the occupants of Jericho, is celebrated, today, by song, in Temples and Churches, throughout the planet (including my Church). Hmmm! Once a terrorist, always…
Conversely:
1. Can Jews be brought back to the light? Can they be made willing to cease their search for those “30 pieces of silver?” Is there any hope for them? They have many weapons, but absolutely no morals. They have suborned our United States of America, all of Europe, and most everywhere else.
2..The restoration of the American Republic is the absolute precursor for the Liberation of the Palestinians.
3. Will we ever Restore our Republic, avenge the murder of our last Constitutional President, John Fitzgerald Kennedy, his brother, and ML King, and so many others?
Am I the only person who finds that the Syrian government can be sued in the USA for sponsoring terrorism to be both ironic and amusing? Just who is funding and supplying the Sunni terrorist head choppers and moderate head choppers inside Syria? None other than Uncle Sam and those paragons of religious and personal freedom, Saudi Arabia and Qatar. Do we actually want to see Christian and other minorities in Syria subject to an ISIS like government? Apparently a significant part of the USG does. As Hilary Clinton has said, “The best way to help Israel deal with Iran’s growing nuclear capability is to help the people of Syria overthrow the regime of Bashar Assad.” Hilary Clinton, 100% for israel, as usual.
I did find an error in his report. He writes “It can plausibly be claimed that Islamabad and Berlin had some prior knowledge of the attack which they chose not to share, making them complicit, and the respective governments would have to appear in a U.S. court to demonstrate their innocence.”
An entry at HC…
In June 2001, German intelligence warned the US, Britain, and Israel that Middle Eastern terrorists were planning to hijack commercial aircraft and use them as weapons to attack “American and Israeli symbols which stand out.” Within the American intelligence community, “the warnings were taken seriously and surveillance intensified” but “there was disagreement on how such terrorist attacks could be prevented.” This warning came from Echelon, a spy satellite network that is partly based in Germany. [Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, 9/11/01, Washington Post, 9/14/01]
However, there is PLENTY of information to suggest Pakistani Brass were well aware of the upcoming attacks, and they did not send a warning that I’m aware of.
The police and FBI reports are available.
Police Report
http://911myths.com/index.php?title=File:46173840-Police-Report.pdf
FBI Reports
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxhHk-kM0huWcjlFTVNUOTVhMEU/edit?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxhHk-kM0huWVmotS3d0dW9zMW8/edit?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxhHk-kM0huWRkg5Z1NGZHZZSlU/edit?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxhHk-kM0huWaDg2Umx3UFh6eDA/edit?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxhHk-kM0huWZnh3NmI5QzRDMWs/edit?usp=sharing
Supplied by 911myths.com
One piece of evidence Pakistani Brass knew… I know there are more…
http://www.yourbbsucks.com/forum/showthread.php?9322-Pakistan-Military-Brass-Knew-In-Advance-That-9-11-Would-Take-Place
This document, from 911myths.com, is said to have come from from the FBI regarding the Israelis arrested in the White Van on 9/11/2001…
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxhHk-kM0huWcjlFTVNUOTVhMEU/edit
DATE PROPERTY ACQUIRED: 9/12/2001
SOURCE FROM WHICH PROPERTY ACQUIRED:
NJ LICENSE JRJ13Y
ITEM #15 FABRIC SAMPLE (EXPLOSIVE RESIDUE)
ITEM #17 CONTROL SWABS – (BOMB SUITS)
ITEM #34 BLANKET SAMPLES FOR EXPLOSIVE RESIDUE
I’ve seen this before. Has anyone got an explanation as to what it means?
Listen to my show “We Were Lied To About 9/11″
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/we-were-lied-to-about-9-11/id955030348?mt=2
Will anyone sue the USA for its sponsorship of IRA terrorism in the UK and the Republic of Ireland?
http://www.globalresearch.ca/plans-for-redrawing-the-middle-east-the-project-for-a-new-middle-east/3882
excerpt -
That’s exactly what Mr. Giraldi said. Although, I agree with you that people should stop blaming “the Israelis” when rightfully it was a Jewish (not just Israeli) operation from start to finish.
The Israelis couldn’t even begin to pull off 9/11 without mega-help from their army of sayanim in the US.
But if a truthful essay falls in the forest and no-one is allowed to read it, did it really fall? Mr. Giraldi just wants to be heard and it doesn’t take a rocket surgeon to know that, when he says “Israeli” he means “Jew.”
I think he's a fake.
Is it not self-evident that some Jew Israeli people, some Saudi people, and some people in the US government all together had a hand in doing 9/11 – and also in covering it up – and also in using it to start more wars?
Zionism and Wahhabism are old world Semite brothers. They share old world delusions of godly grandeur. Clearly there are US Gentiles who think in terms of old world domination and empire grandeur for the US government.
These grandeur people are brothers in evil.
This is the twenty first century – it is time to go to Mars – not kill each other.
We the People MUST insist on peace!
Art
Let's hope Phil's right, and the unintended consequences include indictments for Bush, Blair, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Clinton, Power, etc.
Another point of unintended consequences, I've been warning, is the No-Fly/No-Buy blind back-door attack on gun rights that will lead to loss of other rights. But way before that, the First Amendment was assaulted in KANSAS CITY in May. Questioning ISRAELI policy in a public library is now grounds for arrest!!!!!
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/0d983782157341819671685dc8a64ee2/official-outraged-about-charges-after-kc-library-arrests
http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/crime/article105294071.html
"The arrests occurred after a provocative question was asked at the question-and-answer period of a May 9 talk by diplomat Dennis Ross. For months, library officials protested that the arrests and charges were a violation of the First Amendment."
Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/crime/article105294071.html#storylink=cpy
Dearieme, still wondering why the US has been destroying Syria? This well-referenced article gives the geopolitical (money/energy/power) explanation, including link to Ralph Peters.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/plans-for-redrawing-the-middle-east-the-project-for-a-new-middle-east/3882
excerpt -
When dual citizen Chertoff put immunity in the Patriot Act for “anything israel may have done on 9-11″ that was the coup de grace for me.
He was the key U.S. official behind the 9-11 cover-up, an Israeli citizen-son of a Mossad agent. Chertoff was the head of the criminal division of the Dept of Justice at the time & assistant AG+ top boss of the FBI. From this position Chertoff managed the FBI’s “non-investigation” of 9-11, & supervised the confiscation, destruction of the critical evidence – such as videotapes, aircraft debris, over 99 % of the steel from the WTC. Destruction of this crucial evidence is a crime in itself.
He used federal legal power to secure release “five dancing Israelis.” Many believe these Israelis installed the thermate which provided the “bottom base” explosive destruction of the world trade center buildings!NY city police had arrested and detained these five murderous scum for continued questioning for 70 days, when this traitor to America appeared & secured the safe release of these monsters & shipped them safely to ‘Israel’.
Chertoff also means ‘devil’ in Russian I believe.
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/the-impact-of-nsa-domestic-spying-2013-6#ixzz3NxPMujNoand:
"Two Secretive Israeli Companies Reportedly Bugged The US Telecommunications Grid For The NSA"
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/israelis-bugged-the-us-for-the-nsa-2013-6#ixzz3NxPnnUFgand:
"IDF Unit 8200 Cyberwar Veterans Developed NSA Snooping Technology"
Read more:http://www.richardsilverstein.com/2013/06/08/idf-unit-8200-cyberwar-veterans-developed-nsa-snooping-technology/and:
"Jewish groups get up to 97% of grants from the Homeland Security"
http://mondoweiss.net/2012/07/islamophobia-shmislamophobia-97-of-homeland-security-security-grants-go-to-jewish-orgs
All I can find by searches is other such statements as yours appearing to have no more credibility than the words of a blowhard at a Bar.
I have absolutely no dog in this fight but I am used to assessing evidence and so far I haven't seen anything to tar that Chertoff with the alleged unlikely manipulation that you apparently believe.
Dr. Giraldi – you got to be kidding, right?
When was the last time the Jewish Lobby allowed Israel to be sued since the creation of the western colonial outpost? Israel was involved in the assassination of JFK, 9/11, and many other terrorist act against the United States. Some of these terrorist acts have been acknowledged by Israel without remorse or compensation to its victims.
Take for example the attack on USS Liberty and USS Cole. Leaders of several major American Jewish organizations met Barack Obama and members of his national security team on January 23, 2013 offering abject apologies for the Israeli covert attack on USS Liberty. According to Karl Reich, BNN senior producer, the Jewish groups included ADL, AIPAC and the Conference of Major American Jewish Organizations. However, the Israeli ambassador in Washington could not attend the meeting due to sickness.
It took American Jewish leaders 46 year to admit that Israel did intentionally attack electronic intelligence-gathering ship, USS Liberty, on June 8, 1967, which resulted the death of 34 young Americans and wounding another 171.
The Zionist regime blamed Egypt for the attack. The Israeli-poodle president Lyndon Johnson (his mother Rebekah Baines had Jewish family roots) covered Israeli foot-prints under the influence of his advisor, Mathilde Krim, a former operative of Jewish terrorist group Irgun. Her husband Arthur Krim, then chaired the finance committee for the Democratic National Committee.
Both Admiral Thomas Moorer, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and Dean Rusk, secretary of state refuted Israeli story (“a tragic incident”) and called the incident a deliberate Israeli attack to suck American forces on Israeli side against Arabs.
Lt. Com. James Ennes was one of the survivors on USS Liberty. James was hounded by the Jewish Lobby groups for years. They called him “antisemite”, “Nazi bastard” and “drop dead”…
https://rehmat1.com/2013/01/27/jewish-groups-apologize-for-israeli-attack-on-uss-liberty/
U.S. Sixth Fleet should have been allowed to mount a retaliatory attack on an Israeli military target.
Be careful pointing our Israel’s role in the 9/11 False Flag, as that can get you arrested here in the USA:
alethonews.wordpress.com/2016/10/02/librarian-defends-patrons-free-speech-is-brutally-arrested-in-library-where-he-works/
Thank you Mr.Giraldi,as you are one of the few patriots left fighting for 9-11 truth.
Of course Israel was central to 9-11,as causation at the least,although if ,as OBL claimed,he had nothing to do with it,that would definitely leave them as perpetrator and instigator.
And I’ve read they were celebrating before the second plane hit, definite evidence of foreknowledge.
And our own governments response leaves much to question,with multiple evidence of lies and coverup.
And our intrepid MSM has blanketed every possible malignant actor with the magic shield of Perseus,including the Saudis,to this day even,a strange phenomena regarding alleged Israeli Arab hostility.
Oy.
Zionism and Wahhabism are old world Semite brothers. They share old world delusions of godly grandeur. Clearly there are US Gentiles who think in terms of old world domination and empire grandeur for the US government.
These grandeur people are brothers in evil.
This is the twenty first century – it is time to go to Mars – not kill each other.
We the People MUST insist on peace!
Art
Art, is grandeur the same thing as power?
Let’s hope Phil’s right, and the unintended consequences include indictments for Bush, Blair, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Clinton, Power, etc.
Another point of unintended consequences, I’ve been warning, is the No-Fly/No-Buy blind back-door attack on gun rights that will lead to loss of other rights. But way before that, the First Amendment was assaulted in KANSAS CITY in May. Questioning ISRAELI policy in a public library is now grounds for arrest!!!!!
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/0d983782157341819671685dc8a64ee2/official-outraged-about-charges-after-kc-library-arrests
http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/crime/article105294071.html
“The arrests occurred after a provocative question was asked at the question-and-answer period of a May 9 talk by diplomat Dennis Ross. For months, library officials protested that the arrests and charges were a violation of the First Amendment.”
Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/crime/article105294071.html#storylink=cpy
RobinG,
Without question the manifestation of grandeur is power over others.
The Zionists and Wahhabis are nasty people who justify their power hungry makeup to a god.
Cheney and Rumsfeld are just nasty men who think geopolitical power. They cut their geopolitical teeth at Nixon’s knee. Clearly, Cheney and Rumsfeld see the Jews as like power players. They played, we lost. They have led the American people into a powerless situation. Thanks to them, we have become economic and political surfs to the Zionist Jews.
Long term I am hopeful – but the next twenty years are going to be hell.
Art
There was denial of service attack on UNZ.com for several hours today 10/4/16. Did this article provoke the attack?
The same has been happening to consortium.com, another great source of information.
Perhaps the vampire-scoundrels have been annoyed by the light (truth)
[…] By Philip Giraldi • Unz Review • October 4, 2016 […]
JASTA is nothing more than a jobs program for avaricious Noo Yawk lawyers. And just imagine how their frivolous law suits will tangle up America’s Federal courts. The very fact that JASTA was passed overwhelmingly by the House and Senate informs as to who owns our formerly sovereign, free, great and beloved republic. Weep for America lost.
Whatever you think of Hitler, he did try to warn us about organised international Jewry.
He was the key U.S. official behind the 9-11 cover-up, an Israeli citizen-son of a Mossad agent. Chertoff was the head of the criminal division of the Dept of Justice at the time & assistant AG+ top boss of the FBI. From this position Chertoff managed the FBI’s “non-investigation” of 9-11, & supervised the confiscation, destruction of the critical evidence - such as videotapes, aircraft debris, over 99 % of the steel from the WTC. Destruction of this crucial evidence is a crime in itself.
He used federal legal power to secure release “five dancing Israelis.” Many believe these Israelis installed the thermate which provided the “bottom base” explosive destruction of the world trade center buildings!NY city police had arrested and detained these five murderous scum for continued questioning for 70 days, when this traitor to America appeared & secured the safe release of these monsters & shipped them safely to 'Israel'.
Chertoff also means 'devil' in Russian I believe.
Michael Chertoff’s cousin, Benjamin Chertoff, wrote the Popular Mechanics hit piece debunking 9/11 conspiracy theories.
That evidence was quickly handed over to Alan D. Ratner’s Metals Management and the SIMS group. Ratner is a Jew.
http://www.baesystems.com/en-us/our-company/about-us/bae-systems-inc/inc-board-of-directors/michael-chertoff
I am a rocket surgeon and I do know…when Giraldi says “Israeli” what he really means is: “OMG! I’m so frightened of the joos! They could get me any time they want…what was that noise?!”
I think he’s a fake.
What does your malpractice insurance cost you Anonymous Smith?
>I think he's a fake.
It figures that you would:
http://www.councilforthenationalinterest.org/new/
And recall that after Chertoff’s stint as Director of Homeland Security, he managed to sell and install hundreds of defective body scanners in US airports. SUCH A DEAL and Our Tax Dollars At Work!
http://www.baesystems.com/en-us/our-company/about-us/bae-systems-inc/inc-board-of-directors/michael-chertoff
That info doesn't surprise me, though...they are natural born crooks!
I think he's a fake.
>I am a rocket surgeon and I do know
What does your malpractice insurance cost you Anonymous Smith?
>I think he’s a fake.
It figures that you would:
http://www.councilforthenationalinterest.org/new/
http://www.baesystems.com/en-us/our-company/about-us/bae-systems-inc/inc-board-of-directors/michael-chertoff
“he managed to sell and install hundreds of defective body scanners” – But first they had to conduct the Underwear Bomber operation.
http://haskellfamily.blogspot.com/2011/09/colossal-deceit-known-as-underwear.html
After the 1993 bombing, the World Trade Center had extremely tight security. The last time I visited the WTC was in June of 2001, and it was still that way. Cars were searched for bombs on the way into the parking garage; when you entered the building, bags were searched, your ID was checked, as was your destination, and you were given a special laminated photo ID to show to the next layer of security at the elevator banks.
Given the level of security there, and the giant jet liners full of kerosene we saw crash into the buildings at 600 miles per hour, it seems more likely that those jets caused the demise of the WTC.
I visited a friend who lived in the south Bronx and he took this rube on a sightseeing tour of NYC, including the Twins in 2000, we even went up to the viewing deck on the 86th floor, that was in one of the Twins and there was NO security.
No one stopped and asked us what we were doing; no one asked for our ID's while wandering around the entry level floor and no one asked for our ID's when we went up the elevator.
After digesting that Blake, please tell us how WTC 7 came down and what caused WTC 6 to explode that afternoon, leaving nothing but a crater?
https://www.youtube.com/embed/a4FkO5ry1uo
I could ask if you knew who stole several hundred million dollars worth of gold and silver bullion the night BEFORE 9/11 from the basement of WTC 4, but for now, just WTC 6 and 7.
http://www.baesystems.com/en-us/our-company/about-us/bae-systems-inc/inc-board-of-directors/michael-chertoff
Profitted from that big time
Let's hope Phil's right, and the unintended consequences include indictments for Bush, Blair, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Clinton, Power, etc.
Another point of unintended consequences, I've been warning, is the No-Fly/No-Buy blind back-door attack on gun rights that will lead to loss of other rights. But way before that, the First Amendment was assaulted in KANSAS CITY in May. Questioning ISRAELI policy in a public library is now grounds for arrest!!!!!
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/0d983782157341819671685dc8a64ee2/official-outraged-about-charges-after-kc-library-arrests
http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/crime/article105294071.html
"The arrests occurred after a provocative question was asked at the question-and-answer period of a May 9 talk by diplomat Dennis Ross. For months, library officials protested that the arrests and charges were a violation of the First Amendment."
Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/crime/article105294071.html#storylink=cpy
Art, is grandeur the same thing as power?
RobinG,
Without question the manifestation of grandeur is power over others.
The Zionists and Wahhabis are nasty people who justify their power hungry makeup to a god.
Cheney and Rumsfeld are just nasty men who think geopolitical power. They cut their geopolitical teeth at Nixon’s knee. Clearly, Cheney and Rumsfeld see the Jews as like power players. They played, we lost. They have led the American people into a powerless situation. Thanks to them, we have become economic and political surfs to the Zionist Jews.
Long term I am hopeful – but the next twenty years are going to be hell.
Art
Why are you even asking the question in your subtitle? You should be the first one to file a suit, get your day in court, and prove what dastardly people these Jews are.
What does your malpractice insurance cost you Anonymous Smith?
>I think he's a fake.
It figures that you would:
http://www.councilforthenationalinterest.org/new/
Why did you add that link?
http://www.baesystems.com/en-us/our-company/about-us/bae-systems-inc/inc-board-of-directors/michael-chertoff
I never really kept track of Skeletor once he left the gov.
That info doesn’t surprise me, though…they are natural born crooks!
Given the level of security there, and the giant jet liners full of kerosene we saw crash into the buildings at 600 miles per hour, it seems more likely that those jets caused the demise of the WTC.
Who is to say that there was no clearance given to certain vehicles/personnel by those in control?
[…] By Philip Giraldi • Unz Review • October 4, 2016 […]
Zionism and Wahhabism are old world Semite brothers. They share old world delusions of godly grandeur. Clearly there are US Gentiles who think in terms of old world domination and empire grandeur for the US government.
These grandeur people are brothers in evil.
This is the twenty first century – it is time to go to Mars – not kill each other.
We the People MUST insist on peace!
Art
You forgot the UKs role in 911.
Sue Jack Nicholson.
Dude, WWII was like 71 years ago.
He was the key U.S. official behind the 9-11 cover-up, an Israeli citizen-son of a Mossad agent. Chertoff was the head of the criminal division of the Dept of Justice at the time & assistant AG+ top boss of the FBI. From this position Chertoff managed the FBI’s “non-investigation” of 9-11, & supervised the confiscation, destruction of the critical evidence - such as videotapes, aircraft debris, over 99 % of the steel from the WTC. Destruction of this crucial evidence is a crime in itself.
He used federal legal power to secure release “five dancing Israelis.” Many believe these Israelis installed the thermate which provided the “bottom base” explosive destruction of the world trade center buildings!NY city police had arrested and detained these five murderous scum for continued questioning for 70 days, when this traitor to America appeared & secured the safe release of these monsters & shipped them safely to 'Israel'.
Chertoff also means 'devil' in Russian I believe.
Let’s not mention the vast sums that ‘I$raelis’ receive from ‘Homeland Security to do much of the spying.
“Jame Bamford of Wired subsequently reported that the NSA had hired secretive contractors with extensive ties to Israeli intelligence to establish 10 to 20 wiretapping rooms at key telecommunication points throughout the country.”
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/the-impact-of-nsa-domestic-spying-2013-6#ixzz3NxPMujNo
and:
“Two Secretive Israeli Companies Reportedly Bugged The US Telecommunications Grid For The NSA”
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/israelis-bugged-the-us-for-the-nsa-2013-6#ixzz3NxPnnUFg
and:
“IDF Unit 8200 Cyberwar Veterans Developed NSA Snooping Technology”
Read more:http://www.richardsilverstein.com/2013/06/08/idf-unit-8200-cyberwar-veterans-developed-nsa-snooping-technology/
and:
“Jewish groups get up to 97% of grants from the Homeland Security”
http://mondoweiss.net/2012/07/islamophobia-shmislamophobia-97-of-homeland-security-security-grants-go-to-jewish-orgs
JASTA is great legislation!
JASTA is great legislation!
JASTA is great legislation!
Spake the unemployed Noo Yawk lawyah. ;-)
Will anyone sue the USA for its sponsorship of British terrorism in Ireland, the UK, Continental Europe and the rest of the world?
http://en.mehrnews.com/news/120233/9-11-victims-bill-to-bring-down-Judgment-Day-on-US
“There was denial of service attack on UNZ.com for several hours today 10/4/16.”
The same has been happening to consortium.com, another great source of information.
Perhaps the vampire-scoundrels have been annoyed by the light (truth)
http://www.baesystems.com/en-us/our-company/about-us/bae-systems-inc/inc-board-of-directors/michael-chertoff
Piss on Michael Jerkoff–er, Chertoff, that Israel-First cretin.
when Trump said he would like to get to the bottom of 9-11 an earthquake went off in Israel recording 9.9 on the richter scale. so they decided to scapegoat the Saudis for 9-11 kol nidre style. the yellow paidophiles in congress to eager to please their Israeli masters voted to pass this. if the saudis wanted to hurt the USA they could make one phone call that would destroy the country overnight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95ncn5Q16N4&list=PL3C32560738EF3C30&feature=plpp
It seems to me that this article is just a tease. Everyone who has looked into it will come to the conclusion that the Israelis were 100% behind 9/11 – and the Saudis merely provided some cretins to front it.
The Saudis are so incompetent that they cannot subdue Yemen – despite a massive superiority in weaponry.
“Truck Bomb Destined for George Washington Bridge”
https://wikispooks.com/wiki/9-11/Israel_did_it#Truck_Bomb_Destined_for_George_Washington_Bridge
No one seemed to know why American flags were at half-staff for several days, so I googled around:
START: 9/28/2016 END: 9/30/2016
US Flags at Half-Staff for the Death of Shimon Peres
Presidential Proclamation — Death of Shimon Peres DEATH OF SHIMON PERES – – – – – – – BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA A PROCLAMATION As a mark of respect for the memory of Shimon Peres, former President and Prime Minister of Israel, I hereby order, by the authority vested in me by the Constitution and laws of the United States of America, that the flag of the United States shall be flown at half-staff at the White House and on all public buildings and grounds, at all military posts and naval stations, and on all naval vessels of the Federal Government in the District of Columbia and throughout the United States and its Territories and possessions until sunset, on September 30, 2016. I also direct that the flag shall be flown at half-staff for the same period at all United States embassies, legations, consular offices, and other facilities abroad, including all military facilities and naval vessels and stations. IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this twenty-eighth day of September, in the year of our Lord two thousand sixteen, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundred and forty-first.
BARACK OBAMA
Does the State of Israel lower its flags when an American VIP dies?
I haven't heard of any such gesture.
So, again, why would a President of United States spit on the memory of all those Americans who died serving and protecting that flag, and order it lowered for a state which attacked a US flagged ship - USS Liberty - and killed and murdered American servicemen.
sued, ha, ha, once the military finds out that israel did it , they would bomb that little state,
When was the last time the Jewish Lobby allowed Israel to be sued since the creation of the western colonial outpost? Israel was involved in the assassination of JFK, 9/11, and many other terrorist act against the United States. Some of these terrorist acts have been acknowledged by Israel without remorse or compensation to its victims.
Take for example the attack on USS Liberty and USS Cole. Leaders of several major American Jewish organizations met Barack Obama and members of his national security team on January 23, 2013 offering abject apologies for the Israeli covert attack on USS Liberty. According to Karl Reich, BNN senior producer, the Jewish groups included ADL, AIPAC and the Conference of Major American Jewish Organizations. However, the Israeli ambassador in Washington could not attend the meeting due to sickness.
It took American Jewish leaders 46 year to admit that Israel did intentionally attack electronic intelligence-gathering ship, USS Liberty, on June 8, 1967, which resulted the death of 34 young Americans and wounding another 171.
The Zionist regime blamed Egypt for the attack. The Israeli-poodle president Lyndon Johnson (his mother Rebekah Baines had Jewish family roots) covered Israeli foot-prints under the influence of his advisor, Mathilde Krim, a former operative of Jewish terrorist group Irgun. Her husband Arthur Krim, then chaired the finance committee for the Democratic National Committee.
Both Admiral Thomas Moorer, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and Dean Rusk, secretary of state refuted Israeli story (“a tragic incident”) and called the incident a deliberate Israeli attack to suck American forces on Israeli side against Arabs.
Lt. Com. James Ennes was one of the survivors on USS Liberty. James was hounded by the Jewish Lobby groups for years. They called him “antisemite”, “Nazi bastard” and “drop dead”...
https://rehmat1.com/2013/01/27/jewish-groups-apologize-for-israeli-attack-on-uss-liberty/
Of course, the attack on U.S.S. LIBERTY was deliberate. The ship had been under aerial surveillance for hours beforehand. The sea was calm, the visibility unlimited. Maybe the Israelis were too fuckin’ stupid to plot courses and speeds, but I doubt it.
U.S. Sixth Fleet should have been allowed to mount a retaliatory attack on an Israeli military target.
The former commanding officer of the USS Liberty, Captain William McGonagle, generously donated to the Gift Fund during a memorial service for crew members in June 1989. His donation and a grant co-funded by the Andrew Mellon Foundation and the Wisconsin Humanities Committee enabled the library to offer The Library of America, a 60-volume set of writings of major American authors.
Books on the Middle East also are available from all points of view, in keeping with the remark by Joseph Joubert, “It is better to debate a question without settling it than to settle a question without debating it.”
A debate raged while the library was under construction over the suggestion by two major donors to the project to name the library in honor of the USS Liberty. The proposal set off attempts, mostly by residents of nearby Milwaukee, to induce residents to change the name. These included unrelenting critical media coverage, picketing during the ground-breaking ceremony, refusal by the school board to permit the high school band to participate, and the refusal of some area clergy and many invited military and federal government officials to attend the village’s memorial service for the crew.
The project trustees wanted to name the library after Theodore and Benjamin Grob, two Swiss-born Jewish industrialists who donated $250,000 towards the project. But they rejected the offer saying: “Name it the USS Liberty Memorial Library in honor of the 34 Americans who died when Israel attacked the USS Liberty in 1967.”
https://rehmat1.com/2015/02/03/jews-against-uss-liberty-memorial-library/
The Day Israel Attacked America:
http://america-hijacked.com/2014/10/30/the-day-israel-attacked-america/
>JASTA is great legislation!
Spake the unemployed Noo Yawk lawyah.
START: 9/28/2016 END: 9/30/2016
US Flags at Half-Staff for the Death of Shimon Peres
Presidential Proclamation -- Death of Shimon Peres DEATH OF SHIMON PERES - - - - - - - BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA A PROCLAMATION As a mark of respect for the memory of Shimon Peres, former President and Prime Minister of Israel, I hereby order, by the authority vested in me by the Constitution and laws of the United States of America, that the flag of the United States shall be flown at half-staff at the White House and on all public buildings and grounds, at all military posts and naval stations, and on all naval vessels of the Federal Government in the District of Columbia and throughout the United States and its Territories and possessions until sunset, on September 30, 2016. I also direct that the flag shall be flown at half-staff for the same period at all United States embassies, legations, consular offices, and other facilities abroad, including all military facilities and naval vessels and stations. IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this twenty-eighth day of September, in the year of our Lord two thousand sixteen, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundred and forty-first.
BARACK OBAMA
Where does the Constitution grant POTUS the authority to order the lowering of US flags ‘As a mark of respect’ for a foreign dignitary?
Does the State of Israel lower its flags when an American VIP dies?
I haven’t heard of any such gesture.
So, again, why would a President of United States spit on the memory of all those Americans who died serving and protecting that flag, and order it lowered for a state which attacked a US flagged ship – USS Liberty – and killed and murdered American servicemen.
U.S. Sixth Fleet should have been allowed to mount a retaliatory attack on an Israeli military target.
Well, it didn’t happen because president Lyndon Johnson was in bed with his Jewish sexpot and Sen. John McCain’s father Admiral John McCain Sr. was licking Israel’s AZZ ……
The former commanding officer of the USS Liberty, Captain William McGonagle, generously donated to the Gift Fund during a memorial service for crew members in June 1989. His donation and a grant co-funded by the Andrew Mellon Foundation and the Wisconsin Humanities Committee enabled the library to offer The Library of America, a 60-volume set of writings of major American authors.
Books on the Middle East also are available from all points of view, in keeping with the remark by Joseph Joubert, “It is better to debate a question without settling it than to settle a question without debating it.”
A debate raged while the library was under construction over the suggestion by two major donors to the project to name the library in honor of the USS Liberty. The proposal set off attempts, mostly by residents of nearby Milwaukee, to induce residents to change the name. These included unrelenting critical media coverage, picketing during the ground-breaking ceremony, refusal by the school board to permit the high school band to participate, and the refusal of some area clergy and many invited military and federal government officials to attend the village’s memorial service for the crew.
The project trustees wanted to name the library after Theodore and Benjamin Grob, two Swiss-born Jewish industrialists who donated $250,000 towards the project. But they rejected the offer saying: “Name it the USS Liberty Memorial Library in honor of the 34 Americans who died when Israel attacked the USS Liberty in 1967.”
https://rehmat1.com/2015/02/03/jews-against-uss-liberty-memorial-library/
McCain Confronted & Media Accomplices:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2d0CKXy8HQ&list=PL32A3140D59BF5772&feature=plpp_play_all
Additional at following URL:
http://america-hijacked.com/2012/05/30/john-mccain-calls-american-patriot-a-jerk-for-questioning-him-about-uss-liberty-cover-up/
Even Cindy McCain okay with Israel murdering USS Liberty sailors and marines:
http://america-hijacked.com/2011/10/04/cindy-mccain-on-the-uss-liberty-coverup-i-dont-care-about-this-issue/
Surely yes; I myself also experienced such a denial of access.
File suit on Norway.
The Granit missile that hit the Pentagon was stolen from the sunken Kursk submarine by Halliburton Norway when they were contracted by Russia to look for survivors and evaluate recovery options.
When Mammut Denmark cut the sub and lifted the segments to the surface, the bow magazine was missing 2 of its 24 Granit nuclear warheads.
Giraldi:
” . . . It would indeed be ironic if an Israel-loving Congress has, through its passage of JASTA to squeeze money out of the Saudis, also inadvertently opened the door to finding out just what the Mossad and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu were up to back in 2001.”
No shit!
J.A.S.T.A.
Jewish Attorney’s Saudi Terrorization Agenda
I think it is more likely that there are those in positions of power already who would see to it that “things” already in the US would go bang first and in a big way.
For obvious reasons, a large proportion of American lawyers won’t touch such a case. Many judges too.
U.S. Sixth Fleet should have been allowed to mount a retaliatory attack on an Israeli military target.
See ‘The Day Israel Attacked America’ linked at following URL:
The Day Israel Attacked America:
http://america-hijacked.com/2014/10/30/the-day-israel-attacked-america/
The former commanding officer of the USS Liberty, Captain William McGonagle, generously donated to the Gift Fund during a memorial service for crew members in June 1989. His donation and a grant co-funded by the Andrew Mellon Foundation and the Wisconsin Humanities Committee enabled the library to offer The Library of America, a 60-volume set of writings of major American authors.
Books on the Middle East also are available from all points of view, in keeping with the remark by Joseph Joubert, “It is better to debate a question without settling it than to settle a question without debating it.”
A debate raged while the library was under construction over the suggestion by two major donors to the project to name the library in honor of the USS Liberty. The proposal set off attempts, mostly by residents of nearby Milwaukee, to induce residents to change the name. These included unrelenting critical media coverage, picketing during the ground-breaking ceremony, refusal by the school board to permit the high school band to participate, and the refusal of some area clergy and many invited military and federal government officials to attend the village’s memorial service for the crew.
The project trustees wanted to name the library after Theodore and Benjamin Grob, two Swiss-born Jewish industrialists who donated $250,000 towards the project. But they rejected the offer saying: “Name it the USS Liberty Memorial Library in honor of the 34 Americans who died when Israel attacked the USS Liberty in 1967.”
https://rehmat1.com/2015/02/03/jews-against-uss-liberty-memorial-library/
See following youtube:
McCain Confronted & Media Accomplices:
Additional at following URL:
http://america-hijacked.com/2012/05/30/john-mccain-calls-american-patriot-a-jerk-for-questioning-him-about-uss-liberty-cover-up/
Even Cindy McCain okay with Israel murdering USS Liberty sailors and marines:
http://america-hijacked.com/2011/10/04/cindy-mccain-on-the-uss-liberty-coverup-i-dont-care-about-this-issue/
Israel as 9/11 Motive & Media Betrayal:
The amount of explosives that would have had to be smuggled in and set strains credulity. The 1993 truck bombing used 1500lbs of explosives and didn’t come close to bringing down the North Tower.
Given the level of security there, and the giant jet liners full of kerosene we saw crash into the buildings at 600 miles per hour, it seems more likely that those jets caused the demise of the WTC.
WTC security? What security?
I visited a friend who lived in the south Bronx and he took this rube on a sightseeing tour of NYC, including the Twins in 2000, we even went up to the viewing deck on the 86th floor, that was in one of the Twins and there was NO security.
No one stopped and asked us what we were doing; no one asked for our ID’s while wandering around the entry level floor and no one asked for our ID’s when we went up the elevator.
After digesting that Blake, please tell us how WTC 7 came down and what caused WTC 6 to explode that afternoon, leaving nothing but a crater?
https://www.youtube.com/embed/a4FkO5ry1uo
I could ask if you knew who stole several hundred million dollars worth of gold and silver bullion the night BEFORE 9/11 from the basement of WTC 4, but for now, just WTC 6 and 7.
Just calling Israel a terrorist state will get you injured and arrested in the US of Gulag…
It doesn’t seem that much could be proved in court against Israel regarding 9-11. It’s suspected that they had foreknowledge due their spying but that’s the extent of it. Of course if they knew but didn’t inform the US government then that would be a major betrayal. However, letting it happen may have been the US plan all along. The hijackers who were to act as the pilots, at the very least, would most logically have received their flight training in Saudi Arabia where they would have had access to airfields, similar jumbo-jets to train on, trainers and training manuals that provided instruction in their native Arabic and a security system to assure discretion. They certainly didn’t learn to fly jumbo-jets by taking flight lessons in some small rinky-dink propeller planes, the kind used to fly advertising banners in the summertime. The wired money from Pakistan is another piece in the puzzle.
I can’t see much coming out of this except perhaps some lawyers cashing in. The truth will continue to be covered up. It’s strange to view Americans who consider themselves to be set-upon by foreign terrorists whist being totally oblivious to the fact that they’re living in the country that’s been terrorizing the entire world for many years now. Contras, ‘freedom-fighter’ jihadis in Afghanistan, ‘moderate’ jihadis in Syria, we’ve been behind it all, the list just keeps getting longer once one sits down to make a list. Wonder what the US should owe the rest of the world?
I think Giraldi should also mention that Hurricane Matthew is also a Zionist plot.
Don’t go down the route of excessive antisemitism. It taints the the Truther movement. Just support demands for a new investigation. Let’s have a proper investigation and let the chips fall where they may. If it’s Jews, fine. If it’s not Jews, that’s fine too.
Let’s think about a what a new investigation would look like. Who would run it? Kissinger? Zelikow? Chertoff? Would Cheney and Bush actually be put under oath this time? Would eyewitnesses be allowed to testify openly? Would it be like the Iran Contra hearings or the Church hearings? Who would present the evidence for the Truthers? The No Planes crowd?
Presidential candidate Jill Stein has said she supports a new investigation. That is some progress at least. Stop Jew Bashing and other silliness and start thinking about what a real investigation would look like.
BTW: Chertoff is alive and well and just endorsed Hillary Clinton for president. All the Neocons are for Hillary.
Next from Philip Giraldi: Israel’s role in the sinking of the Maine.
Explosive material used in 1993 had efficiency 4-5 time smaller than military grade explosives.
Two pro-Israel politicians, former Governor Thomas H. Kean, and former Congressman Lee H. Hamilton, who were chairman and vice-chairman of Bush’s ‘9/11 Commission’ penned an opinion post at the USA TODAY (September 11, 2016) saying that terror threats against American people are worse than it were on September 2001. May be they know what Israeli Mossad is planning in the near future.
Philip Zelikow (Zionist Jew), former executive director of the ‘9/11 Commission’ admitted in 2004 that America invaded Iraq in 2003 because Saddam Hussein became an existential threat to the Zionist entity.
In December 2001, US historian Michael Collins Piper claimed that the so-called “19 Arab hijackers” could have been Israeli agents.
On September 10, 2016, Dr. Paul Craig Roberts posted an article, entitled, 9/11: 15 years of a transparent lie.
https://rehmat1.com/2016/09/11/jill-stein-is-a-911-denier/
Ron
I have a very ratty ranting email from Blake accusing me of saying things on this thread that I don’t recall but when I search for it in the thread and search for what zi.am supposed to have said neither appear.
Can we send little Petey King to Gitmo for his support of the IRA?
Organized Jewry is very allergic to someone not agreeing with the official 9/11 narrative.
On October 1, 2016, Dr. Michael J. Mahon, president University Lethbridge (Canada) asked professor Anthony Hall to submit his resignation. Mahon’s decision was result of a vicious campaign run by country’s powerful Jew-Supremacist B’nai B’rith – claiming Tony Hall believes in so-called ‘conspiracy theories’ such as Israel committed 9/11.
Dr. Robin Mathews, academic, poet and anti-imperialism activist, in an open letter to Canada’s prime minister Justin Trudeau and Mahon protested against the dismissal of Anthony Hall over Zionist cooked-up lies.
American academic, editor, author, and speaker, Kevin Barrett claims that Tony Hall was set-up by Jewish activists who planted an inflammatory image on Tony’s Facebook page. He also penned a letter to Mike Mahon.
On September 28, 2016, Robert Sean Lewis aka RAFIQ, writer and author, posted an article, entitled, Canadian professor libelously targeted as antisemite in coordinated attack. He accused Bernie Farber, former executive director of Canadian Jewish Congress and founder of the Mosaic Institute of declaring Tony Hall an antisemite over faked evidence.
You can read Tony Hall’s Zionist Witch-hunt in his own words below:
https://rehmat1.com/2016/10/06/canada-speech-freedom-doesnt-include-israels-criticism/
Great article, Mr. Giraldi.
However, I think the idea of extra-territorial litigation as a means for anything is pretty horrid. It will further enrich a few members of the already bloated legal caste in the USA.
Seriously, there may be a couple of cases against meaningless Saudis.
Whatever the scope and scale of Israeli involvement, the truth will stop at the level of Justin Raimondo’s old book on it, which appears to have vanished, so perhaps it stops somewhere before that.
I wonder if this article is the reason for Unz Review being broken for well over 24 hours?
Zionism and Wahhabism are old world Semite brothers. They share old world delusions of godly grandeur. Clearly there are US Gentiles who think in terms of old world domination and empire grandeur for the US government.
These grandeur people are brothers in evil.
This is the twenty first century – it is time to go to Mars – not kill each other.
We the People MUST insist on peace!
Art
We the people must insist on shoving primitive Abrahamic religion back to its heartland and evolving ourselves in the new directions that were truncated in the 20th century by the BOBIEs (Band Of Brothers In Evil).
And if they aren’t reined in, they will want to export that evil to the stars.
I promise to stop talking about 9-11 when you stop talking about Jesus.
Also smuggled into buildings which had as tenants and/or security there 24/7 NYPD, Port Authority Police, The Fed, FBI, Secret Service, NY State Troopers (including the NYC office of NY state Governor), as well as building security for the WTC and security of the various tenants themselves. If there was this massive planting of explosives, how is it so many of the security personnel above were bought off to allow the murders of almost 3000 people they may have known and interacted with every day?And why hasn’t someone from one of these agencies, in a pang of guilt, come forward? Where is any witness to the placing of the explosives?
You mean the underwear bomber who was escorted to the boarding gate by a man in a sharp suit and tie who demanded the bomber be allowed to board the plane with no passport, which was all witnessed by the American lawyer and his wife who were sitting nearby playing a friendly game of cards as they waited to board the plane? THAT underwear bomber??:
http://haskellfamily.blogspot.com/2011/09/colossal-deceit-known-as-underwear.html
ISRAELI MOTIVES IN WAR ON YEMEN
“Israel is concerned about Yemen because an independent Yemeni government could inhibit Israel’s nuclear-armed submarines from easily deploying from the Red Sea to the Persian Gulf to menace Iran with the threat of an attack.”
This is from last year. Still best article I’ve seen.
https://www.rt.com/op-edge/248269-yemen-oil-saudi-mandeb-strait/
War on Yemen: Where oil and geopolitics mix
to build the world's longest suspension bridge across the Red Sea at Bab-a; Mandab
http://basementgeographer.com/bridge-of-the-horns-cities-of-light-will-they-ever-actually-be-built/
to link Djibouti and the Arabian peninsula https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RZAEEAbkRwhttp://www.arabianbusiness.com/yemen-djibouti-bridge-part-of-200bn-project-48970.html#.V_eEORTmHFIAmerican firms are involved in the design and construction of the new cities that will anchor the ends of the bridge.
(And if they ever build the proposed Bridge of the Horns across the strait, surely that would be very vulnerable in the event of a conflict.)
He was the key U.S. official behind the 9-11 cover-up, an Israeli citizen-son of a Mossad agent. Chertoff was the head of the criminal division of the Dept of Justice at the time & assistant AG+ top boss of the FBI. From this position Chertoff managed the FBI’s “non-investigation” of 9-11, & supervised the confiscation, destruction of the critical evidence - such as videotapes, aircraft debris, over 99 % of the steel from the WTC. Destruction of this crucial evidence is a crime in itself.
He used federal legal power to secure release “five dancing Israelis.” Many believe these Israelis installed the thermate which provided the “bottom base” explosive destruction of the world trade center buildings!NY city police had arrested and detained these five murderous scum for continued questioning for 70 days, when this traitor to America appeared & secured the safe release of these monsters & shipped them safely to 'Israel'.
Chertoff also means 'devil' in Russian I believe.
Where in the text of the Patriot Act do words appear excluding Israel’s liability? What are the precise words and in what section?
All I can find by searches is other such statements as yours appearing to have no more credibility than the words of a blowhard at a Bar.
I have absolutely no dog in this fight but I am used to assessing evidence and so far I haven’t seen anything to tar that Chertoff with the alleged unlikely manipulation that you apparently believe.
"Israel is concerned about Yemen because an independent Yemeni government could inhibit Israel’s nuclear-armed submarines from easily deploying from the Red Sea to the Persian Gulf to menace Iran with the threat of an attack."
This is from last year. Still best article I've seen.
https://www.rt.com/op-edge/248269-yemen-oil-saudi-mandeb-strait/
War on Yemen: Where oil and geopolitics mix
It appears the famous Pax Romana saying of “All roads lead to Rome” needs to be revised with the Pax Judea saying of “All roads lead to Jerusalem.”
"Israel is concerned about Yemen because an independent Yemeni government could inhibit Israel’s nuclear-armed submarines from easily deploying from the Red Sea to the Persian Gulf to menace Iran with the threat of an attack."
This is from last year. Still best article I've seen.
https://www.rt.com/op-edge/248269-yemen-oil-saudi-mandeb-strait/
War on Yemen: Where oil and geopolitics mix
The Bridge of the Horns
a project that originated in 2007 with the bin Laden family, who are originally from Yemen,
to build the world’s longest suspension bridge across the Red Sea at Bab-a; Mandab
http://basementgeographer.com/bridge-of-the-horns-cities-of-light-will-they-ever-actually-be-built/
to link Djibouti and the Arabian peninsula
http://www.arabianbusiness.com/yemen-djibouti-bridge-part-of-200bn-project-48970.html#.V_eEORTmHFI
American firms are involved in the design and construction of the new cities that will anchor the ends of the bridge.
I doubt any group of citizens will attempt to use JASTA against Israel. If they did the media and organized Jewish groups would go into overdrive labeling them anti-semites and Nazis. But if they persisted then Israel would use their stooges in both houses of Congress to pass a bill granting them immunity.
KenH — what is the alternative?
Phil has done a great service, though he pulled his punches. He knows – as do all of the people in the loop at that time – that there is no question about Mossad involvement in 9/11. “Another Federal agency” demanded that the FBI open an investigation. The FBI refused and bluntly said the refusal was due to political reasons. Some of the Israeli art students were involved in monitoring the 9/11 hijackers and of course were being supervised by Mossad officers. There is no doubt that Israel had guilty prior knowledge of 9/11. It is possible, as Phil says, that the Israelis were directly involved in bringing down the towers with specialized explosives. That had the means, motive and opportunity. That some high level U.S. government officials were involved is a given and anybody can figure out the likely suspects. George Bush WOULD NOT have been part of that group. He was a hapless patsy.
Here’s the intro:
I am an international corporate lawyer, writing to you today about a matter of public policy that is relevant to the circumstances surrounding, and our preparedness for, the catastrophic attacks on September 11, 2001. I do not know whether the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks (the “Commission”) or the Senate and House Committees on Intelligence (the “Committees”) have had the opportunity to consider these issues carefully. If so, I hope this memorandum will be helpful. If not, I respectfully urge them, in accordance with the mandate of the Commission’s charter and in the exercise of the Committees’ responsibilities, to investigate the facts and resolve the questions presented.
Here’s the Detailed Summary:
Set forth below is a detailed summary of the tentative conclusions reached in this memorandum, which amply illustrate the urgent need for a public inquiry into the activities of the Israeli DEA Groups and the Israeli New Jersey Group. The inquiry must include, without limitation, the examination of members of the Israel Groups and related persons; officials of the Israeli government and certain of its agencies, including Mossad; FBI suspects, agents of the DEA, the INS and the FBI; certain local law enforcement officials; agents of the CIA (in camera to the extent required); other intelligence sources cited by the public press to the extent possible; the boxes of documents and computer hard drives (referred on page 29) seized by the FBI from the Israeli New Jersey Group; and of all other relevant documents, reports, communiqués and information.–
1. The Israeli DEA Groups were spying on the Drug
Enforcement Agency and thus upon the United
States. The DEA itself has concluded that they
were probably engaged in organized intelligence
gathering on our soil.
2. A highly regarded American journal knowledgeable
about Israeli affairs, has concluded (a) based on
its own sources, that the Israeli DEA Groups were
spying on radical Islamic networks suspected of
links to Middle East terrorism, and (b) based on
the representations of a former American
intelligence official regularly briefed on these
matters by law enforcement officials, that (i) at
least two members of the Israeli New Jersey Group
were Mossad operatives, (ii) Urban Moving, the
company used by the Israeli New Jersey Group, was
a front for Mossad and its operatives, and (iii)
the Israeli New Jersey Group was spying on local
Arabs.
3. The intelligence sources of a substantial
American television network report that the
Israeli DEA Groups may have gathered information
about the September 11 attacks in advance, and
not shared it with the United States. One
investigator said that evidence linking the
Israeli DEA Groups to such intelligence gathering
was classified and could not be disclosed.
4. The Israeli DEA Groups were comprised of 125 or
more Israelis operating on our soil. Their
leaders and apparent associates included military
commanders and experts with military backgrounds
in intelligence, electronic intercepts and
telecommunications.
5. The wiretapping and intelligence expertise of
members of both Israeli Groups, and the use of
vans in local neighborhoods where the future
hijackers were planning the attacks, and the
extensive use by the hijackers of cell phones and
land lines, made the Israeli Groups ideally
suited to gather information regarding the
hijackers’ plans.
6. The principal operation of the Israeli DEA Groups
was located in and around Hollywood, Florida, the
central training and staging ground for the
hijacking of North and South Tower Planes and the
Pennsylvania Plane. The addresses and places of
residence of the members of the Israeli DEA
Groups in Hollywood itself were within hundreds
of yards those of the future hijackers.
7. The operations of both the Israeli New Jersey
Group and the hijackers of the Pentagon Plane
were centered in Hudson and Bergen Counties in
New Jersey, within a common radius of about
six miles.
8. All five celebrating members of the Israeli New
Jersey Group arrested on September 11 were aware,
when the North Tower Plane struck the World Trade
Center, based on their immediate reaction to the
attack and the information said to be contained
in their van, that the attack had been planned
and carried out by Arab terrorists.
9. After being questioned by the FBI on September
11, the leader of the Israeli New Jersey Group
immediately fled the United States to Israel.
His name and aliases appear, along with those of
the hijackers and other FBI suspects, on the May
2002 FBI Suspect list.
10. Israeli intelligence officials have reported that
two senior officials of Mossad warned the United
States in August 2001 that as many as 200
terrorists on American soil were planning an
imminent large-scale attack on high visibility
targets on the American mainland. One press
report states that in August Mossad provided the
CIA with the names of future hijackers Khaled al
Mihdhar and Nawaf al Hazmi.
11. The CIA’s explanation of how Mihdhar’s and
Hazmi’s names were placed on the Watchlist
through the spontaneous efforts of CIA and FBI
agents is not only difficult to follow but, as
the sole reason for the Watchlisting, hardly
credible.
12. Mossad’s own information appears to have come
from its sources inside the United States. All
of the facts and circumstances set forth in this
memorandum appear to show that Mossad’s two
likely sources of information were: (a) the
Israeli DEA Groups, comparable in number to that
of the Arab suspects and who appear to have
tracked the future hijackers in their central
places of operation and in other states, and (b)
the Israeli New Jersey Group, operating through
their Mossad front in another principal locus of
operations of the future hijackers, two of whom
were Mossad agents, and five of whom appeared
immediately aware of the origin of the attacks on
September 11.
13. While little direct evidence supports the
contention that the CIA was aware of or condoned
the Israeli Groups’ tracking of Arab terrorist
groups in the United States prior to September
11, the CIA’s pressing for the expulsion of
members of the Israeli DEA Groups when they were
detained before September 11, their failure to
cooperate with the FBI, their circuitous
explanation of how the above two hijackers were
placed on the Watchlist, and other relevant
considerations require that the issue be taken up
as a part of the public inquiry into these
painful events.
http://www.antiwar.com/rep2/MemorandumtotheCommissionandSelectCommitteesbold.pdf
Before The Unz Review shut down, I wrote a comment which was # 96 and it is now extinct.
In the comment, I respectfully complained about Mr. Giraldi’s listing of Israel as a “secondary target” for a real “Columbo” style police investigation.
Given his extensive C.I.A. experience and a penchant for honest journalism, Mr. Giraldi knows better. He understands that when well regarded journalists dare to cross a Zionist “Third Rail” threshold, a Black Maria will come for them. How sadly typical is this foreign INTIMIDATION upon our transformed “homeland” which began with an intent to “avoid entangling alliances,” and now we’re all dressed in our “underwear” and inside a padded False Flag bomber room.
Were citizens merely 1/10 informed (by the U.S.-D.O.J.) about Israel’s prior knowledge and instrumental role in the 9-11 attacks, there would be no (unending & expensive) “War Against Terror” except for the one which persists to terrorize misled & fearful Americans. No doubt, Goldman Sachs gift of a 2016 Black Maria to Secretary Hillary Clinton would not be coming for President Vladimir Putin.
As the U.S.S.R. required a de-Stalinization for survival during the early 1950′s, America’s present day 3-Branches of government desperately needs a de-Zionization process so that it can really start to even THINK about becoming “great again!” Too bad we do not have a Neo-Solzhenitsyn who is capable of “Tweeting” inconvenient political facts to those Paul Craig Roberts called “insouciant” Americans?
One Tweet-starter example: Israel is a ‘sister democracy’ of the U.S. and Jimmy Carter said “America is no longer a democracy.” W.T.F. is going one here?
Thank you very much Mr. Unz for letting me speak my mind once more.
The best source that documents the activities of the Israelis is a memorandum prepared by Gerald Shea, an international corporate lawyer. He submitted it to the 9/11 Commission back on September 15, 2004. In it, he pleads for a public inquiry on the basis of Israeli Surveillance of the Future Hijackers and FBI Suspects in the September 11 Attacks and Their Failure to Give Us Adequate Warning.
Here’s the intro:
I am an international corporate lawyer, writing to you today about a matter of public policy that is relevant to the circumstances surrounding, and our preparedness for, the catastrophic attacks on September 11, 2001. I do not know whether the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks (the “Commission”) or the Senate and House Committees on Intelligence (the “Committees”) have had the opportunity to consider these issues carefully. If so, I hope this memorandum will be helpful. If not, I respectfully urge them, in accordance with the mandate of the Commission’s charter and in the exercise of the Committees’ responsibilities, to investigate the facts and resolve the questions presented.
Here’s the Detailed Summary:
Set forth below is a detailed summary of the tentative conclusions reached in this memorandum, which amply illustrate the urgent need for a public inquiry into the activities of the Israeli DEA Groups and the Israeli New Jersey Group. The inquiry must include, without limitation, the examination of members of the Israel Groups and related persons; officials of the Israeli government and certain of its agencies, including Mossad; FBI suspects, agents of the DEA, the INS and the FBI; certain local law enforcement officials; agents of the CIA (in camera to the extent required); other intelligence sources cited by the public press to the extent possible; the boxes of documents and computer hard drives (referred on page 29) seized by the FBI from the Israeli New Jersey Group; and of all other relevant documents, reports, communiqués and information.–
1. The Israeli DEA Groups were spying on the Drug
Enforcement Agency and thus upon the United
States. The DEA itself has concluded that they
were probably engaged in organized intelligence
gathering on our soil.
2. A highly regarded American journal knowledgeable
about Israeli affairs, has concluded (a) based on
its own sources, that the Israeli DEA Groups were
spying on radical Islamic networks suspected of
links to Middle East terrorism, and (b) based on
the representations of a former American
intelligence official regularly briefed on these
matters by law enforcement officials, that (i) at
least two members of the Israeli New Jersey Group
were Mossad operatives, (ii) Urban Moving, the
company used by the Israeli New Jersey Group, was
a front for Mossad and its operatives, and (iii)
the Israeli New Jersey Group was spying on local
Arabs.
3. The intelligence sources of a substantial
American television network report that the
Israeli DEA Groups may have gathered information
about the September 11 attacks in advance, and
not shared it with the United States. One
investigator said that evidence linking the
Israeli DEA Groups to such intelligence gathering
was classified and could not be disclosed.
4. The Israeli DEA Groups were comprised of 125 or
more Israelis operating on our soil. Their
leaders and apparent associates included military
commanders and experts with military backgrounds
in intelligence, electronic intercepts and
telecommunications.
5. The wiretapping and intelligence expertise of
members of both Israeli Groups, and the use of
vans in local neighborhoods where the future
hijackers were planning the attacks, and the
extensive use by the hijackers of cell phones and
land lines, made the Israeli Groups ideally
suited to gather information regarding the
hijackers’ plans.
6. The principal operation of the Israeli DEA Groups
was located in and around Hollywood, Florida, the
central training and staging ground for the
hijacking of North and South Tower Planes and the
Pennsylvania Plane. The addresses and places of
residence of the members of the Israeli DEA
Groups in Hollywood itself were within hundreds
of yards those of the future hijackers.
7. The operations of both the Israeli New Jersey
Group and the hijackers of the Pentagon Plane
were centered in Hudson and Bergen Counties in
New Jersey, within a common radius of about
six miles.
8. All five celebrating members of the Israeli New
Jersey Group arrested on September 11 were aware,
when the North Tower Plane struck the World Trade
Center, based on their immediate reaction to the
attack and the information said to be contained
in their van, that the attack had been planned
and carried out by Arab terrorists.
9. After being questioned by the FBI on September
11, the leader of the Israeli New Jersey Group
immediately fled the United States to Israel.
His name and aliases appear, along with those of
the hijackers and other FBI suspects, on the May
2002 FBI Suspect list.
10. Israeli intelligence officials have reported that
two senior officials of Mossad warned the United
States in August 2001 that as many as 200
terrorists on American soil were planning an
imminent large-scale attack on high visibility
targets on the American mainland. One press
report states that in August Mossad provided the
CIA with the names of future hijackers Khaled al
Mihdhar and Nawaf al Hazmi.
11. The CIA’s explanation of how Mihdhar’s and
Hazmi’s names were placed on the Watchlist
through the spontaneous efforts of CIA and FBI
agents is not only difficult to follow but, as
the sole reason for the Watchlisting, hardly
credible.
12. Mossad’s own information appears to have come
from its sources inside the United States. All
of the facts and circumstances set forth in this
memorandum appear to show that Mossad’s two
likely sources of information were: (a) the
Israeli DEA Groups, comparable in number to that
of the Arab suspects and who appear to have
tracked the future hijackers in their central
places of operation and in other states, and (b)
the Israeli New Jersey Group, operating through
their Mossad front in another principal locus of
operations of the future hijackers, two of whom
were Mossad agents, and five of whom appeared
immediately aware of the origin of the attacks on
September 11.
13. While little direct evidence supports the
contention that the CIA was aware of or condoned
the Israeli Groups’ tracking of Arab terrorist
groups in the United States prior to September
11, the CIA’s pressing for the expulsion of
members of the Israeli DEA Groups when they were
detained before September 11, their failure to
cooperate with the FBI, their circuitous
explanation of how the above two hijackers were
placed on the Watchlist, and other relevant
considerations require that the issue be taken up
as a part of the public inquiry into these
painful events.
http://www.antiwar.com/rep2/MemorandumtotheCommissionandSelectCommitteesbold.pdf
[…] By Philip Giraldi • Unz Review • October 4, 2016 […]
“Jerk” and “idiot”?
Unz, don’t tell me my hope we were finished with the likes of this in comments here were misplaced.
What does it take? As soon as you see one “jerk” or “idiot”, the comment gets scrapped.
U.S. Sixth Fleet should have been allowed to mount a retaliatory attack on an Israeli military target.
They were quite ahead in the process of becoming a colony. Colonies don’t take retaliatory action.
However, I think the idea of extra-territorial litigation as a means for anything is pretty horrid. It will further enrich a few members of the already bloated legal caste in the USA.
Seriously, there may be a couple of cases against meaningless Saudis.
Whatever the scope and scale of Israeli involvement, the truth will stop at the level of Justin Raimondo's old book on it, which appears to have vanished, so perhaps it stops somewhere before that.
I wonder if this article is the reason for Unz Review being broken for well over 24 hours?
Talk of semantic originality. “To appear to have vanished” = to be on sale on Amazon, alongside a wealth of other books by the same author.
Lawyer, author and professor of international law Dan Joyner’s professional life revolves around participating in- and tracking litigation in international courts.
Joyner specializes in treaty law with special expertise in nuclear proliferation treaty law, and this item concerns such a case. Nevertheless, this decision at the ICJ does not bode well for the success of other cases involving transnational suits.
—-
Tangentially related: A few days ago I listened to a talk by John Lansing, current head of the Broadcasting Board of Governors (BBG) https://www.c-span.org/video/?402726-1/communicators-john-lansing, and then to David Ensor, a former head of Voice of America https://www.c-span.org/video/?402678-1/discussion-international-broadcasting, one of the communications outlets under the BBG.
The BBG manages “public diplomacy” and propaganda in diverse states throughout the world (by law, the citizens of the United States do NOT have access to the propaganda disseminated thru BBG assets).
Two aspects of the two speeches were striking:
1. The BBG & its elements operate on the assumption that certain other foreign states are inherent enemies or adversaries of the United States; their bedrock weltanschauung is that of Us vs Them. The language of the two men was peppered with terms like “information war;” and “we tell them the truth because their governments do not;” and “their media is all lies and propaganda, we just tell the truth.”
2. Another foundational pillar of the BBG’s mindset is that they have the right, even the obligation, to change the cultural thinking and beliefs of target states and to use BBG (that is, US taxpayer) resources to cause the citizens of other nations to cast off their beliefs and adopt US thinking as superior and more “honest” and “truthful.”
–
EVEN IF it were possible to resolve long-standing conflicts in US political life by means of litigation, which would at very least be a long, hard slog, such success still might not address notions deeply embedded in the American mindset; the notion of cultural exceptionalism — of chosenness — and the concomitant habit — even compulsion– of proselytization.
I’d rather live under a flag that represents, “We mind our own business and respect your right to do the same,” rather than spreading tikun olam where it’s not welcome.
SolontoCroesus: none of my biz either way, but didn’t you say, in another thread, that you are leaving UNZ.com, because of the alleged deterioration of the quality of comments ?
no
It was [Regnum Nostrum].
http://www.unz.com/tsaker/the-war-against-syria-both-sides-go-to-plan-b/#comment-1594060
{When I first came to Unz review I bumped into a few interesting and intelligent comments and thought that the site differed from the other blogs infested with all sorts of low life unable to find their own ass without a map. Well I was wrong. In order not to bother intellectual giants on this site who are clearly annoyed by my stupidity I have decided to leave. Enjoy the company of equals.}
Can you be a little more informative?
Are you suggesting that he intentionally posts poor quality comments so as to force himself into leaving?
Isn’t that along the same line as the way Europe’s Jews forced the Nazis to try and exterminate them?
We can’t fat shame anymore, nor can we slut shame, however, idiot shaming is still wide open.
"Israel is concerned about Yemen because an independent Yemeni government could inhibit Israel’s nuclear-armed submarines from easily deploying from the Red Sea to the Persian Gulf to menace Iran with the threat of an attack."
This is from last year. Still best article I've seen.
https://www.rt.com/op-edge/248269-yemen-oil-saudi-mandeb-strait/
War on Yemen: Where oil and geopolitics mix
I find it hard to accept that an independent Yemeni government would have the capability to stop Israel (or any other nation) moving submarines from one sea to another – although the straight between Africa and Yemen is pretty narrow (16 miles between Africa and Perim Island). How would they do it? Mines?
(And if they ever build the proposed Bridge of the Horns across the strait, surely that would be very vulnerable in the event of a conflict.)
zzzzzzzzzzzz
If a group of citizens elects to sue Israel they should stay the course and not be deterred by the vicious personal attacks that are sure to come. Also throw the Izzy worshipping bums out of the Congress but that’s easier said than done as Americans are still too apathetic about such things.
There is the concept of sovereign immunity. So if all you 88s are correct about the US being an appendage of Israel then you can’t sue Israel in a US court.
Catch-a 22.
Catch-a 22.
Earth to iffen: the import of JASTA is its penetration of the wall of sovereign immunity.
By the way — how is it that the USA, or numerous courts in the USA — had no difficulty suing Iran, assessing fines against Iran, even executing takings of Iranian state assets, if, as iffen said, there existed (before JASTA), sovereign immunity? Jewish Americans who argued that they were harmed, in Israel, by acts carried out by Palestinians which, the J-A’s claimed, were sponsored by Iran, sued Iran; were awarded a judgment in a New York court by a US judge; and moved to collect on the judgment by attaching Iranian assets in the USA.
Oh — silly me: the ‘laws’ are different when Jews/Israel are involved.
(As well — the USA sashayed into Libya, overturned its government and assassinated its leader, then made off with Libyan gold reserves, estimated in the billions. R2P doncha know. Remit 2 the Powerful.)
That’s what makes me think that JASTA is not at all aimed at Saudi Arabia; that’s just the rhetorical cover. There is some more evil evil afoot in this JASTA bill.
You can't sue Iran in an Iranian court.
You can't sue Israel in an Israeli court
We can’t fat shame anymore, nor can we slut shame, however, idiot shaming is still wide open.
aha
That didn't take long, did it:
Impunity for Iran leaders should endYou just knew Ed Royce-ster doyster had a hand in this, as well as his cross-country side-kick Eliot Engel, representing their Iranian Jews, Pahlavists, monarchists and Yellow Jackets (MEK) in Tehrangeles, Orange County, and in New York, where the juiciest cases are tried before (ahem) reliable judges. ----THAT is what JASTA is about: Iranian expats want their Eichmann trial.
In his lectures "Understanding the Holocaust," David Engel explains that the capital-haitch holocaust was a lower-case holocaust until the Eichmann trial. THEN it became special, the worstest thing ever, and boy oh boy did it cause the money spigot to open wide.
Somebody wants to bleed Iran just like Jews bled/continue to bleed Germany -- and anybody else they can get their hands on.
The Eichmann trial required some very fancy legal footwork to rationalize kidnapping the citizen of another state and removing him to Israel, where Israel created a specific offense -- "crimes against the Jewish people" -- then tried and convicted him under that offense. Eichmann was, of course, executed in Israel. see, for example, http://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1766&context=dlj
Let's see what contortions Roycester-doyster and Engel come up with.
Hang onto your Persian carpets, this is going to be a bumpy ride.
You can’t sue the US in a US court.
You can’t sue Iran in an Iranian court.
You can’t sue Israel in an Israeli court
We can’t fat shame anymore, nor can we slut shame, however, idiot shaming is still wide open.
You can't sue Iran in an Iranian court.
You can't sue Israel in an Israeli court
We can’t fat shame anymore, nor can we slut shame, however, idiot shaming is still wide open.
ok genius, based on your legal credentials from wikipedia university, explain why Iran could be sued in US courts for alleged harms that befell dual-citizen Jewish-Americans while they were in Israel, but it took an act of Congress for American citizens who were, or may in the future be harmed in the USA by a foreign state, to give those Americans the ability to sue that foreign state?
Hahahaha, you poor thing, you r confusing S.C with Kiza!
Hahahahahahahaha...ha (!).
You poor thing: you are confusing somebody with Kiza !! (two exclamation marks).
I see you are still smarting from the drubbing you got, by yours truly, you UygurTürkoğlu shill. Desperate to find something, anything, to get back at me, you miserable neo-Nazi Schweinhund?
Heil Hitler!
Sieg Heil!
.
aha
That didn’t take long, did it:
Impunity for Iran leaders should end
You just knew Ed Royce-ster doyster had a hand in this, as well as his cross-country side-kick Eliot Engel, representing their Iranian Jews, Pahlavists, monarchists and Yellow Jackets (MEK) in Tehrangeles, Orange County, and in New York, where the juiciest cases are tried before (ahem) reliable judges. —-
THAT is what JASTA is about: Iranian expats want their Eichmann trial.
In his lectures “Understanding the Holocaust,” David Engel explains that the capital-haitch holocaust was a lower-case holocaust until the Eichmann trial. THEN it became special, the worstest thing ever, and boy oh boy did it cause the money spigot to open wide.
Somebody wants to bleed Iran just like Jews bled/continue to bleed Germany — and anybody else they can get their hands on.
The Eichmann trial required some very fancy legal footwork to rationalize kidnapping the citizen of another state and removing him to Israel, where Israel created a specific offense — “crimes against the Jewish people” — then tried and convicted him under that offense. Eichmann was, of course, executed in Israel. see, for example, http://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1766&context=dlj
Let’s see what contortions Roycester-doyster and Engel come up with.
Hang onto your Persian carpets, this is going to be a bumpy ride.
[Nothing gets by you! :) ]
Sorry about that: my mistake.
It was [Regnum Nostrum].
http://www.unz.com/tsaker/the-war-against-syria-both-sides-go-to-plan-b/#comment-1594060
{When I first came to Unz review I bumped into a few interesting and intelligent comments and thought that the site differed from the other blogs infested with all sorts of low life unable to find their own ass without a map. Well I was wrong. In order not to bother intellectual giants on this site who are clearly annoyed by my stupidity I have decided to leave. Enjoy the company of equals.}
{Hahahaha, you poor thing, you r confusing S.C with Kiza! with Kiza!}
Hahahahahahahaha…ha (!).
You poor thing: you are confusing somebody with Kiza !! (two exclamation marks).
I see you are still smarting from the drubbing you got, by yours truly, you UygurTürkoğlu shill. Desperate to find something, anything, to get back at me, you miserable neo-Nazi Schweinhund?
Heil Hitler!
Sieg Heil!
Kiza's arrogant comment 84, http://www.unz.com/freed/an-obsolescent-military/
"It is just my general observation that the trend on unz.com is a declining quality of commentary because many of the original commenters have moved away....I have been a commenter at unz from its day one, but I may leave it to The Crapists and the brainwashed retired US military types with smelly feet from now on"
At any rate, the pompous and self-important Kiza, at least does make some good contributions from time to time...
Unlike you.
Obviously the only reason you asked your idiotic question to S.C is bc u don't like what he writes, particularly when it comes to WW2, N.S, the holohoax, etc.
You should be castrated to prevent the spread of stupid.
aha
That didn't take long, did it:
Impunity for Iran leaders should endYou just knew Ed Royce-ster doyster had a hand in this, as well as his cross-country side-kick Eliot Engel, representing their Iranian Jews, Pahlavists, monarchists and Yellow Jackets (MEK) in Tehrangeles, Orange County, and in New York, where the juiciest cases are tried before (ahem) reliable judges. ----THAT is what JASTA is about: Iranian expats want their Eichmann trial.
In his lectures "Understanding the Holocaust," David Engel explains that the capital-haitch holocaust was a lower-case holocaust until the Eichmann trial. THEN it became special, the worstest thing ever, and boy oh boy did it cause the money spigot to open wide.
Somebody wants to bleed Iran just like Jews bled/continue to bleed Germany -- and anybody else they can get their hands on.
The Eichmann trial required some very fancy legal footwork to rationalize kidnapping the citizen of another state and removing him to Israel, where Israel created a specific offense -- "crimes against the Jewish people" -- then tried and convicted him under that offense. Eichmann was, of course, executed in Israel. see, for example, http://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1766&context=dlj
Let's see what contortions Roycester-doyster and Engel come up with.
Hang onto your Persian carpets, this is going to be a bumpy ride.
Calling the MEK cult of assassins “the main opposition group” is quite the Newspeak. Now that they have lobbied themselves off the US terrorist list, MEK is on the new adventures.
[Nothing gets by you!
]
Well, Mr. Raimondo himself hasn’t mentioned it in well over ten years.
He routinely promotes some of his other books at the end of every editorial on Antiwar.com.
If that isn’t a form of disappearance to you, why not?
Alea iacta est.
World pain and war await.
President Hillary Clinton will cause war with Russia and others.
Who stands to gain from those actions?
American people do not know what their government is doing to them.
The media lies for the government and for investors and other governments.
Trust no one.
"Israel is concerned about Yemen because an independent Yemeni government could inhibit Israel’s nuclear-armed submarines from easily deploying from the Red Sea to the Persian Gulf to menace Iran with the threat of an attack."
This is from last year. Still best article I've seen.
https://www.rt.com/op-edge/248269-yemen-oil-saudi-mandeb-strait/
War on Yemen: Where oil and geopolitics mix
excellent article Robin, thanks !
Hahahahahahahaha...ha (!).
You poor thing: you are confusing somebody with Kiza !! (two exclamation marks).
I see you are still smarting from the drubbing you got, by yours truly, you UygurTürkoğlu shill. Desperate to find something, anything, to get back at me, you miserable neo-Nazi Schweinhund?
Heil Hitler!
Sieg Heil!
Well, little fly, I have confused nothing. Your pal Kiza has sorta echoed regnum…
Kiza’s arrogant comment 84, http://www.unz.com/freed/an-obsolescent-military/
“It is just my general observation that the trend on unz.com is a declining quality of commentary because many of the original commenters have moved away….I have been a commenter at unz from its day one, but I may leave it to The Crapists and the brainwashed retired US military types with smelly feet from now on”
At any rate, the pompous and self-important Kiza, at least does make some good contributions from time to time…
Unlike you.
Obviously the only reason you asked your idiotic question to S.C is bc u don’t like what he writes, particularly when it comes to WW2, N.S, the holohoax, etc.
You should be castrated to prevent the spread of stupid.
I live in the Los Angeles area, California.
Come on over.
Post the date you'll be arriving in our City of the Angels.
We'll meet you at LAX: you will be treated with utmost respect and fully within the letter of the Law.
(when I say "we", I mean SoCal Armenian buddies).
Make sure you wear your Schweinhund mask, so we recognize you. You will be met at LAX by several people, including law enforcement.
You will be arrested for several felony charges.
You will be sent to LA Central jail.
It will take a while for your paperwork to be processed and bail to be set.
While you are in custody, word will be passed to the Armenian criminals residing at LA Central jail that you are a Turk.
Good luck Schweinhund.Heil Hitler!
Sieg Heil!
It gives me great pleasure to observe you denialist, revisionist neo-Nazi Schweinhunden squirming with impotent rage at the site of Germany giving $10s and $10s of billions to thems "holohoaxers": Sweet.
Just recently Germany pledged to build and gift 3 more super-quiet submarines to the State of 'Holohoax' (..hahahahaha....ha (!): get it, swine?).
btw: instead of hallucinating about castrating me, why don't you do something about your girlyboy German 'men' (sic), who stood around and watched their German wives, girlfriends, daughters get sexually molested and raped by Islamist invaders. Obviously your German 'men' were castrated long ago: by thems Slavic Untermenschen; by Americans; and......by thems 'holohoaxing' Jooooos. Yee Haaaw.
Giraldi asks: Will Israel be sued for 9/11?
No. But if the truth re 9-11 is ever revealed( it probably won’t ever be ), much worse could happen to Israel.
They know it & that is why a real investigation was never even allowed to begin with.
Investigative journalist Christopher Bollyn has written a very good book on 9-11.
Solving 9-11: The Deception That Changed the World
https://www.amazon.com/Solving-9-11-Deception-Changed-World/dp/0985322586/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1475962308&sr=8-1&keywords=solving+the+9-11+deception
He has made a version available online @ http://www.bollyn.com/solving-9-11-the-book
Kiza's arrogant comment 84, http://www.unz.com/freed/an-obsolescent-military/
"It is just my general observation that the trend on unz.com is a declining quality of commentary because many of the original commenters have moved away....I have been a commenter at unz from its day one, but I may leave it to The Crapists and the brainwashed retired US military types with smelly feet from now on"
At any rate, the pompous and self-important Kiza, at least does make some good contributions from time to time...
Unlike you.
Obviously the only reason you asked your idiotic question to S.C is bc u don't like what he writes, particularly when it comes to WW2, N.S, the holohoax, etc.
You should be castrated to prevent the spread of stupid.
{You should be castrated to prevent the spread of stupid.}
You are welcome to try, you miserable neo-Nazi Schweinhund.
I live in the Los Angeles area, California.
Come on over.
Post the date you’ll be arriving in our City of the Angels.
We’ll meet you at LAX: you will be treated with utmost respect and fully within the letter of the Law.
(when I say “we”, I mean SoCal Armenian buddies).
Make sure you wear your Schweinhund mask, so we recognize you.
You will be met at LAX by several people, including law enforcement.
You will be arrested for several felony charges.
You will be sent to LA Central jail.
It will take a while for your paperwork to be processed and bail to be set.
While you are in custody, word will be passed to the Armenian criminals residing at LA Central jail that you are a Turk.
Good luck Schweinhund.
Heil Hitler!
Sieg Heil!
Ava(ry): "You are welcome to try, you miserable neo-Nazi Schweinhund."
Sorry, I am not a gynecologist.
Say, did u come up with your girlish/ junior high level 'threats' all by yourself, or did you have help from those "Armenian criminals residing at LA Central jail"?
Was it in the 'LA Central jail' that you discovered your penchant for histrionics & hysterical womanly behavior, ava - ry?
You are amusing... unintentionally funny! :-)
I'm keeping u as my pet.
Kiza's arrogant comment 84, http://www.unz.com/freed/an-obsolescent-military/
"It is just my general observation that the trend on unz.com is a declining quality of commentary because many of the original commenters have moved away....I have been a commenter at unz from its day one, but I may leave it to The Crapists and the brainwashed retired US military types with smelly feet from now on"
At any rate, the pompous and self-important Kiza, at least does make some good contributions from time to time...
Unlike you.
Obviously the only reason you asked your idiotic question to S.C is bc u don't like what he writes, particularly when it comes to WW2, N.S, the holohoax, etc.
You should be castrated to prevent the spread of stupid.
{…the holohoax, etc.}
It gives me great pleasure to observe you denialist, revisionist neo-Nazi Schweinhunden squirming with impotent rage at the site of Germany giving $10s and $10s of billions to thems “holohoaxers”: Sweet.
Just recently Germany pledged to build and gift 3 more super-quiet submarines to the State of ‘Holohoax’ (..hahahahaha….ha (!): get it, swine?).
btw: instead of hallucinating about castrating me, why don’t you do something about your girlyboy German ‘men’ (sic), who stood around and watched their German wives, girlfriends, daughters get sexually molested and raped by Islamist invaders. Obviously your German ‘men’ were castrated long ago: by thems Slavic Untermenschen; by Americans; and……by thems ‘holohoaxing’ Jooooos. Yee Haaaw.
Hot off the press, Why I left the cult, by Avigail Abarbanel.
A few special excerpts:
“Where I grew up wasn’t much different to many working class neighbourhoods elsewhere in the world, but I was always told that we were not the same as everyone else. We were special, we were better: more moral and ethical, more civilised. Don’t tell me you didn’t say that. I remember very well! I actually paid attention at school…
To you ‘assimilation’ is also annihilation. They taught us that at school. We were taught that assimilation was despicable, cowardly, treacherous to our people. Whenever Jewish people marry non-Jews in their own countries, and when all traces of Jewishness, whatever it is, become diluted, you worry. You think it’s the end. Because there are no individuals, only the group, when the group goes individuals go too. So you feel any perceived threat to the group as a personal threat to each one of you. That’s why you cry antisemitism so readily and reflexively, whenever you perceive the slightest threat to your cult state…
I don’t expect you to hear me or to see what you cannot see. You are experts at indoctrination and are too deeply steeped in your fear-based picture of reality. You are a great disappointment to me. That’s why I support the BDS against you. If you don’t stop yourself, someone has to.”
All changed, changed utterly:
A terrible beauty is born.
–From Easter, 1916, by WB Yeats
Dear Israel and Israeli Jews,
Maybe it’s pointless writing to you, and I guess I am not expecting a response. I am writing because I feel a certain sense of duty. After all I come from you, so maybe, maybe some of you might listen to me, might get curious, take a risk and entertain what is currently unthinkable to you.
I left what seems like a very long time ago, twenty-five years. I don’t think you’ve changed much since, except for the worse maybe. Psychologies like yours have the nasty habit of getting worse if left untreated. I always remember you as harsh, defensive, hot around the collar and ready to explode at every opportunity, loud and unforgiving. You had pockets of calm and maybe even kindness, but they were reserved for those who lived in the nicer greener places, and they had more money than we did.
I grew up in Bat-Yam and it was terrible there. It was an endless dense noisy mass of concrete; clumps of heavily populated blocks of thin-walled flats as far as the eye could see, separated only by bitumen roads. It’s not what you usually like to show the rest of the world, and it’s not what the rest of the world think of when they think of you. I grew up on Hashikma Street. What a cruel joke that was, naming that awful concrete dessert, Hashikma… ‘The Sycamore’. There were no trees there. During my childhood I had no idea what a shikma tree even looked like. Whoever these people were, did they think that that by naming the street sycamore it would somehow make it better for those of us destined to spend our childhoods there? Did they think they could fool us into thinking it was nicer, more idyllic than it really was? All it did was tease and torment. The name of my street spoke to me of something I had no access to and that I thought I could never have.
This schizophrenic split between the name of the place and the reality of it is symbolic of your entire existence. Where I grew up wasn’t much different to many working class neighbourhoods elsewhere in the world, but I was always told that we were not the same as everyone else. We were special, we were better: more moral and ethical, more civilised. Don’t tell me you didn’t say that. I remember very well! I actually paid attention at school.
But with the mind of a child, I kind of sensed that we weren’t special at all. I suspect a lot of children who suffer abuse within their own families at the hands of their own people, develop doubts about their group. If you protected me better, maybe I would still be a part of you. But you couldn’t protect me or other children like me precisely because you are not who or what you say you are, a more enlightened and ethical people. You are a group of humans with gifts and with flaws, and with plenty of cowardice like every other group. You are no different from any human society that hides and even enables crimes against its own children, and that fails to protect the vulnerable in their midst.
A few years after I left you, I gradually began to realise that I was the same as any cult leaver. It was a shock, but looking back I wonder why I hadn’t seen it before. Then again, rarely can people inside a cult see where they are. If they could, the cult wouldn’t be what it is. They think that they are members of a special group that has a special destiny, and is always under threat. The survival of the cult is always the most important principle. Cult members are taught from birth that the world outside is dangerous, that they have to huddle together for safety. Every member of every cult is a recruit.
At this point you are probably going to say that cult or no cult, this was entirely justified. Have I forgotten the holocaust? No. Of course not. Persecution of Jewish people throughout history was very real indeed. Whatever Jewish identity is, Jews were a hated and despised group among many cultures in Europe, and Jews have always had an uneasy co-existence with non-Jews. Any marginalised or persecuted group has an uneasy relationship with the dominant culture. Once you have been discriminated against it’s hard to trust.
But two big things bother me about you. One, this history of persecution is so inseparable from your identity, you can’t see beyond it. Not even your most talented artists, academics, intellectuals and writers, can see beyond. You all seem to be caught up in it, except for a very small and extraordinary minority of people who can see Zionism for what it is. Anyone who has suffered trauma tends to feel separate and different. It’s human psychology once you have been abused, to feel that you are no longer the same as everyone else. But anyone who was abused and traumatised has a duty is to get better and not allow the fear and the victimhood to become their identity. Those of us who were abused and traumatised have this duty because if we don’t heal, we either hurt ourselves or others, or both. That’s where you are and that’s what you are doing. You have not only allowed trauma to become your very identity, you have glorified it and are worshiping it as a god.
The second and even more important thing that bothers me is the crime you have committed and are still committing in the name of ‘our’ survival. You wanted a solution to the persecution of your group, and herein lies the problem. You decided to create a Jewish ghetto that you think of as a safe haven, on a land that was fully populated. You came in and took it, committed ethnic cleansing and are continuing to do so as we speak. I know you would not feel that you have completed your mission until you have all the land without the people.
You are a product of settler-colonialism, a state created through the removal and the elimination of the people who lived in the territory before you. The relationship you developed with your victims, the Palestinians, bears all the hallmarks of a relationship between settler-colonisers and those they wish to eliminate from existence. Settler-colonisers don’t just remove people off their land. They remove their historical places, monuments, evidence of their history oral and physical, all traces of their existence… If there is no victim, there is no crime. If the territory is cleansed of the character given to it by those who lived there, it is open to take on a new one.
I know what it’s like to be blind to the fact that you are settler-colonisers, people who are committing a terrible crime. You cannot see yourself as the ‘bad guy’ here. You are so steeped in your self-created myth, that you always were and always will be the most tragic victim in the story of humanity. I once was one of you and I know that it is practically impossible to see through your reasoning: ‘We merely returned to our ancestral home. We just want to live in peace with our own people. What’s wrong with that? Why don’t others let us live in peace?’
There is a powerful force field, some kind of a lead-lined shield inside you, that protects your belief from the truth, from reality. You don’t deny that you ‘came back’ and settled the land, you just can’t see what it means. So let me spell it out for you one more time. When a group of people comes into a territory (no matter their reason), removes the indigenous people and takes their land and resources, it’s called settler-colonialism. Settler-colonialism is immoral and it is a crime against humanity. Victims don’t always go silently into the night, so crimes have to continue to be committed until the victims’ resistance and defiance are crushed and they disappear from view and memory. There is nothing original or special about what you are, or what you are doing. You are like all other settler-colonisers before you. Not even your capacity for self-deception and your deception of others are particularly special. It’s been done before. There is nothing special about you at all.
Let’s say you did ‘return home’ as your myths say, that Palestine really was your ancestral home. But Palestine was fully populated when you started to covet it. In order to take it for yourself you have been following quite closely the Biblical dictate to Joshua to just walk in and take everything. You killed, you expelled, you raped, you stole, you burned and destroyed and you replaced the population with your own people. I was always taught that the Zionist movement was largely non-religious (How you can be Jewish without Jewish religion is perplexing in itself). For a supposedly non-religious movement it’s extraordinary how closely Zionism — your creator and your blueprint — has followed the Bible. Of course you never dare to critique the stories of the Bible. Not even the secular amongst you do that. None of my otherwise good teachers at my secular schools ever suggested that we question of the morality of what Joshua did. If we were able to question it, the logical next step would have been to question Zionism, its crimes, and the rightness of the existence of our very own state. No, we couldn’t be allowed to go that far. It was too dangerous. That would risk the precarious structure that held us in place.
So like all cults that have ever existed, and those that will no doubt continue to be created, you live in self-imposed blindness. You create and recreate a picture of reality that is filled with holes, but you are OK with that. The possibility of filling those holes brings you face-to-face with your mortal terrors, your morbid fear of annihilation. And you can’t bear it. I know what annihilation means to you. It doesn’t just mean killing. Annihilation means that the Jewish people, that Jewishness itself would no longer exist. To you ‘assimilation’ is also annihilation. They taught us that at school. We were taught that assimilation was despicable, cowardly, treacherous to our people. Whenever Jewish people marry non-Jews in their own countries, and when all traces of Jewishness, whatever it is, become diluted, you worry. You think it’s the end. Because there are no individuals, only the group, when the group goes individuals go too. So you feel any perceived threat to the group as a personal threat to each one of you. That’s why you cry antisemitism so readily and reflexively, whenever you perceive the slightest threat to your cult state.
I left the cult because I wanted to find out who I was. I refused to accept that the only purpose of my life was to defend the cult and allow it to continue. It’s human, it’s mammal, to allow one’s identity to be subsumed by the group, but it doesn’t make for a good life. We survived as mammals partly because we lived in groups. Without the group around them, individuals probably died out in the harsh world our ancestors lived in. Your psychology is nothing more than simple cave/herd psychology and it’s not unique to you. But we as a species have the capacity for so much more. In the world we live in now, our survival depends on transcending our natural base instincts. We can develop and use the moral and ethical part of our brain, the part that gives us self-awareness and concern for others, the part that can take responsibility for our own sins and crimes and can make amends. Our salvation is not in our own little groups any more, but together as one species.
Come on, leave the cult and the ghetto mentality behind, join the human race, do the right thing. You want to be really special, to fulfil a special destiny? By all means! Lead the way to enlightenment by owning up, repenting and making amends, by transforming your identity into something healthy and positive. Show what can be achieved when we are more than frightened mammals…
I don’t expect you to hear me or to see what you cannot see. You are experts at indoctrination and are too deeply steeped in your fear-based picture of reality. You are a great disappointment to me. That’s why I support the BDS against you. If you don’t stop yourself, someone has to.
http://mondoweiss.net/2016/10/why-i-left-the-cult/
I live in the Los Angeles area, California.
Come on over.
Post the date you'll be arriving in our City of the Angels.
We'll meet you at LAX: you will be treated with utmost respect and fully within the letter of the Law.
(when I say "we", I mean SoCal Armenian buddies).
Make sure you wear your Schweinhund mask, so we recognize you. You will be met at LAX by several people, including law enforcement.
You will be arrested for several felony charges.
You will be sent to LA Central jail.
It will take a while for your paperwork to be processed and bail to be set.
While you are in custody, word will be passed to the Armenian criminals residing at LA Central jail that you are a Turk.
Good luck Schweinhund.Heil Hitler!
Sieg Heil!
{You should be castrated to prevent the spread of stupid.}
Ava(ry): “You are welcome to try, you miserable neo-Nazi Schweinhund.”
Sorry, I am not a gynecologist.
Say, did u come up with your girlish/ junior high level ‘threats’ all by yourself, or did you have help from those “Armenian criminals residing at LA Central jail”?
Was it in the ‘LA Central jail’ that you discovered your penchant for histrionics & hysterical womanly behavior, ava – ry?
You are amusing… unintentionally funny!
I’m keeping u as my pet.
Ron Unz recently commented that he didn't want to start censoring commenters but also that he didn't want his site to be degraded as so many other site have been by troll-like comments.
I mean neither of you any ill will but please just stop it for all of our sakes. Cheers.
Ava(ry): "You are welcome to try, you miserable neo-Nazi Schweinhund."
Sorry, I am not a gynecologist.
Say, did u come up with your girlish/ junior high level 'threats' all by yourself, or did you have help from those "Armenian criminals residing at LA Central jail"?
Was it in the 'LA Central jail' that you discovered your penchant for histrionics & hysterical womanly behavior, ava - ry?
You are amusing... unintentionally funny! :-)
I'm keeping u as my pet.
I’ve been following this exchange and it really is beneath you both. May I cordially invite you both to cease and simply ignore one another?
Ron Unz recently commented that he didn’t want to start censoring commenters but also that he didn’t want his site to be degraded as so many other site have been by troll-like comments.
I mean neither of you any ill will but please just stop it for all of our sakes. Cheers.
A few special excerpts:
"Where I grew up wasn’t much different to many working class neighbourhoods elsewhere in the world, but I was always told that we were not the same as everyone else. We were special, we were better: more moral and ethical, more civilised. Don’t tell me you didn’t say that. I remember very well! I actually paid attention at school...
To you ‘assimilation’ is also annihilation. They taught us that at school. We were taught that assimilation was despicable, cowardly, treacherous to our people. Whenever Jewish people marry non-Jews in their own countries, and when all traces of Jewishness, whatever it is, become diluted, you worry. You think it’s the end. Because there are no individuals, only the group, when the group goes individuals go too. So you feel any perceived threat to the group as a personal threat to each one of you. That’s why you cry antisemitism so readily and reflexively, whenever you perceive the slightest threat to your cult state...
I don’t expect you to hear me or to see what you cannot see. You are experts at indoctrination and are too deeply steeped in your fear-based picture of reality. You are a great disappointment to me. That’s why I support the BDS against you. If you don’t stop yourself, someone has to."
All changed, changed utterly:
A terrible beauty is born.
–From Easter, 1916, by WB Yeats
Dear Israel and Israeli Jews,
Maybe it’s pointless writing to you, and I guess I am not expecting a response. I am writing because I feel a certain sense of duty. After all I come from you, so maybe, maybe some of you might listen to me, might get curious, take a risk and entertain what is currently unthinkable to you.
I left what seems like a very long time ago, twenty-five years. I don’t think you’ve changed much since, except for the worse maybe. Psychologies like yours have the nasty habit of getting worse if left untreated. I always remember you as harsh, defensive, hot around the collar and ready to explode at every opportunity, loud and unforgiving. You had pockets of calm and maybe even kindness, but they were reserved for those who lived in the nicer greener places, and they had more money than we did.
I grew up in Bat-Yam and it was terrible there. It was an endless dense noisy mass of concrete; clumps of heavily populated blocks of thin-walled flats as far as the eye could see, separated only by bitumen roads. It’s not what you usually like to show the rest of the world, and it’s not what the rest of the world think of when they think of you. I grew up on Hashikma Street. What a cruel joke that was, naming that awful concrete dessert, Hashikma… ‘The Sycamore’. There were no trees there. During my childhood I had no idea what a shikma tree even looked like. Whoever these people were, did they think that that by naming the street sycamore it would somehow make it better for those of us destined to spend our childhoods there? Did they think they could fool us into thinking it was nicer, more idyllic than it really was? All it did was tease and torment. The name of my street spoke to me of something I had no access to and that I thought I could never have.
This schizophrenic split between the name of the place and the reality of it is symbolic of your entire existence. Where I grew up wasn’t much different to many working class neighbourhoods elsewhere in the world, but I was always told that we were not the same as everyone else. We were special, we were better: more moral and ethical, more civilised. Don’t tell me you didn’t say that. I remember very well! I actually paid attention at school.
But with the mind of a child, I kind of sensed that we weren’t special at all. I suspect a lot of children who suffer abuse within their own families at the hands of their own people, develop doubts about their group. If you protected me better, maybe I would still be a part of you. But you couldn’t protect me or other children like me precisely because you are not who or what you say you are, a more enlightened and ethical people. You are a group of humans with gifts and with flaws, and with plenty of cowardice like every other group. You are no different from any human society that hides and even enables crimes against its own children, and that fails to protect the vulnerable in their midst.
A few years after I left you, I gradually began to realise that I was the same as any cult leaver. It was a shock, but looking back I wonder why I hadn’t seen it before. Then again, rarely can people inside a cult see where they are. If they could, the cult wouldn’t be what it is. They think that they are members of a special group that has a special destiny, and is always under threat. The survival of the cult is always the most important principle. Cult members are taught from birth that the world outside is dangerous, that they have to huddle together for safety. Every member of every cult is a recruit.
At this point you are probably going to say that cult or no cult, this was entirely justified. Have I forgotten the holocaust? No. Of course not. Persecution of Jewish people throughout history was very real indeed. Whatever Jewish identity is, Jews were a hated and despised group among many cultures in Europe, and Jews have always had an uneasy co-existence with non-Jews. Any marginalised or persecuted group has an uneasy relationship with the dominant culture. Once you have been discriminated against it’s hard to trust.
But two big things bother me about you. One, this history of persecution is so inseparable from your identity, you can’t see beyond it. Not even your most talented artists, academics, intellectuals and writers, can see beyond. You all seem to be caught up in it, except for a very small and extraordinary minority of people who can see Zionism for what it is. Anyone who has suffered trauma tends to feel separate and different. It’s human psychology once you have been abused, to feel that you are no longer the same as everyone else. But anyone who was abused and traumatised has a duty is to get better and not allow the fear and the victimhood to become their identity. Those of us who were abused and traumatised have this duty because if we don’t heal, we either hurt ourselves or others, or both. That’s where you are and that’s what you are doing. You have not only allowed trauma to become your very identity, you have glorified it and are worshiping it as a god.
The second and even more important thing that bothers me is the crime you have committed and are still committing in the name of ‘our’ survival. You wanted a solution to the persecution of your group, and herein lies the problem. You decided to create a Jewish ghetto that you think of as a safe haven, on a land that was fully populated. You came in and took it, committed ethnic cleansing and are continuing to do so as we speak. I know you would not feel that you have completed your mission until you have all the land without the people.
You are a product of settler-colonialism, a state created through the removal and the elimination of the people who lived in the territory before you. The relationship you developed with your victims, the Palestinians, bears all the hallmarks of a relationship between settler-colonisers and those they wish to eliminate from existence. Settler-colonisers don’t just remove people off their land. They remove their historical places, monuments, evidence of their history oral and physical, all traces of their existence… If there is no victim, there is no crime. If the territory is cleansed of the character given to it by those who lived there, it is open to take on a new one.
I know what it’s like to be blind to the fact that you are settler-colonisers, people who are committing a terrible crime. You cannot see yourself as the ‘bad guy’ here. You are so steeped in your self-created myth, that you always were and always will be the most tragic victim in the story of humanity. I once was one of you and I know that it is practically impossible to see through your reasoning: ‘We merely returned to our ancestral home. We just want to live in peace with our own people. What’s wrong with that? Why don’t others let us live in peace?’
There is a powerful force field, some kind of a lead-lined shield inside you, that protects your belief from the truth, from reality. You don’t deny that you ‘came back’ and settled the land, you just can’t see what it means. So let me spell it out for you one more time. When a group of people comes into a territory (no matter their reason), removes the indigenous people and takes their land and resources, it’s called settler-colonialism. Settler-colonialism is immoral and it is a crime against humanity. Victims don’t always go silently into the night, so crimes have to continue to be committed until the victims’ resistance and defiance are crushed and they disappear from view and memory. There is nothing original or special about what you are, or what you are doing. You are like all other settler-colonisers before you. Not even your capacity for self-deception and your deception of others are particularly special. It’s been done before. There is nothing special about you at all.
Let’s say you did ‘return home’ as your myths say, that Palestine really was your ancestral home. But Palestine was fully populated when you started to covet it. In order to take it for yourself you have been following quite closely the Biblical dictate to Joshua to just walk in and take everything. You killed, you expelled, you raped, you stole, you burned and destroyed and you replaced the population with your own people. I was always taught that the Zionist movement was largely non-religious (How you can be Jewish without Jewish religion is perplexing in itself). For a supposedly non-religious movement it’s extraordinary how closely Zionism — your creator and your blueprint — has followed the Bible. Of course you never dare to critique the stories of the Bible. Not even the secular amongst you do that. None of my otherwise good teachers at my secular schools ever suggested that we question of the morality of what Joshua did. If we were able to question it, the logical next step would have been to question Zionism, its crimes, and the rightness of the existence of our very own state. No, we couldn’t be allowed to go that far. It was too dangerous. That would risk the precarious structure that held us in place.
So like all cults that have ever existed, and those that will no doubt continue to be created, you live in self-imposed blindness. You create and recreate a picture of reality that is filled with holes, but you are OK with that. The possibility of filling those holes brings you face-to-face with your mortal terrors, your morbid fear of annihilation. And you can’t bear it. I know what annihilation means to you. It doesn’t just mean killing. Annihilation means that the Jewish people, that Jewishness itself would no longer exist. To you ‘assimilation’ is also annihilation. They taught us that at school. We were taught that assimilation was despicable, cowardly, treacherous to our people. Whenever Jewish people marry non-Jews in their own countries, and when all traces of Jewishness, whatever it is, become diluted, you worry. You think it’s the end. Because there are no individuals, only the group, when the group goes individuals go too. So you feel any perceived threat to the group as a personal threat to each one of you. That’s why you cry antisemitism so readily and reflexively, whenever you perceive the slightest threat to your cult state.
I left the cult because I wanted to find out who I was. I refused to accept that the only purpose of my life was to defend the cult and allow it to continue. It’s human, it’s mammal, to allow one’s identity to be subsumed by the group, but it doesn’t make for a good life. We survived as mammals partly because we lived in groups. Without the group around them, individuals probably died out in the harsh world our ancestors lived in. Your psychology is nothing more than simple cave/herd psychology and it’s not unique to you. But we as a species have the capacity for so much more. In the world we live in now, our survival depends on transcending our natural base instincts. We can develop and use the moral and ethical part of our brain, the part that gives us self-awareness and concern for others, the part that can take responsibility for our own sins and crimes and can make amends. Our salvation is not in our own little groups any more, but together as one species.
Come on, leave the cult and the ghetto mentality behind, join the human race, do the right thing. You want to be really special, to fulfil a special destiny? By all means! Lead the way to enlightenment by owning up, repenting and making amends, by transforming your identity into something healthy and positive. Show what can be achieved when we are more than frightened mammals…
I don’t expect you to hear me or to see what you cannot see. You are experts at indoctrination and are too deeply steeped in your fear-based picture of reality. You are a great disappointment to me. That’s why I support the BDS against you. If you don’t stop yourself, someone has to.
http://mondoweiss.net/2016/10/why-i-left-the-cult/
Poor Avigail, she seeks a measure of acknowledgement.
How that is to be achieved by casting her lachrymose, jaundiced eyes on a nation she absconded from with her kiwi mate (was it?), is best left for a discerning reader to judge. One imagines whilst growing up in Bat Yam has it’s advantages, it doesn’t quite prepare the resident to offer informed commentary on larger socio-religious subjects. It would be akin to expecting a Harlem rapper to critically judge the contributions of the Metro Opera in NY, or a Grimsby woman in the U.K. re: the exegesis of classical Greek reliefs at the British Museum.
Hey, Sam. Perhaps you could help the less discerning reader by pointing out which points in her lengthy letter you take issue with?
do u go out of yur way to sound like a pretentious prick or does it come naturally — in the DNA so to speak?
Hey Geo. Well, she relieves herself with a flow of words of all the pent-up hostility that had been growing within her since she bolted. I should scarcely need to deconstruct her writing, a pastiche of the ‘literary’ effusions of today’s all too common ‘traumatised’ females, finding their lucrative perches in a society which vies to champion the next ‘victim’.
I’ll admit she’s taken blaming the ex-in-laws to a new cross-national level not witnessed previously.
Otherwise, not much to see there.
Jews and Israel have prosecuted persons from Germany for alleged crimes against the Jewish people from the time of the Nuremberg trials, to (specifically) the kidnapping, trial and execution of Eichmann, to the prosecution of Demanjanjuk, and up until the present day, when Jews arrange for the prosecution of persons now in their 90s for even a tangential relationship to the alleged holocaust.
David Engel devoted at least half of one lecture to detailing how “ordinary people” were complicit in the alleged holocaust: not only actual warriors in Germany but persons such as the man who dispatched the train, the man who closed the door on the train, persons who worked in factories that made weapons — all and sundry were complicit in the alleged holocaust, therefore subject to prosecution for crimes against the Jewish people.
And we are aware that Jules Streicher was executed for the crime of writing in a newspaper words that “incited” the alleged holocaust.
Thereby, Jews have established a model of whom is liable for prosecution, and JASTA is the equivalent of the Charter of the International Military Tribunal that enabled the Nuremberg Trials.
Therefore, every newsperson who has disseminated information, in print, verbally, by Tweet, email, or otherwise, that vilified the citizens of another state such that they were rendered subject to attack, physical harm, deprivation of their rights to life or property, must be put on notice that they are liable to be prosecuted for their participation in crimes against those people.
I suggest a letter be drafted and distributed to such persons.
A list of the most egregious suspects can be easily drawn up, but as the David Engel/Jewish model of prosecuting persons even tangentially related to the commission of alleged crimes directs, clerks in newsrooms; the folks who man the cameras, the sound system; staffers in congressional offices — one all all, they, too, could be subject to prosecution under the Jewish/David Engel theory, and should be solemnly warned.
US government leaders are threatening to, and preparing to, impose a “no – fly” zone over Syria. As US government spokespersons have conceded, war crimes could evolve from such an action. The act itself is a war crime: it amounts to the waging of war against a sovereign state. Anybody — any US citizen who participates in such an act should be warned that his/her participation may result in prosecution for war crimes.
How ’bout it, Samantha Power: Don’t we have a Responsibility to Protect US citizens, first and foremost, from engaging in acts that might make them complicit in the commission of crimes that could result in their prosecution a la JASTA, or Nuremberg, or the Eichmann trial?
He was a bitter rival of Adolf's - in vying for political upper-hand that is, not child pornography, this latter talent exclusively his own.
Here is Shirer:And I mention nothing - nor wish to - regarding that degenerate's contributions to the Holocaust.
Be careful, your reputation tends to get cemented by the company you defend so zealously.
It was war, deprivation was commonplace. A person has the right to try and survive, right?
I just did my job. All I did was drop these little pellets into the tube, what happened after that I can't say, that part was not part of my job. Well yes, I did notice that thousands of people arrived on the trains and hardly any left the camp. The camp seemed small but I guess it could have held a couple million people without me noticing. I never really thought about it.
David Engel devoted at least half of one lecture to detailing how "ordinary people" were complicit in the alleged holocaust: not only actual warriors in Germany but persons such as the man who dispatched the train, the man who closed the door on the train, persons who worked in factories that made weapons -- all and sundry were complicit in the alleged holocaust, therefore subject to prosecution for crimes against the Jewish people.
And we are aware that Jules Streicher was executed for the crime of writing in a newspaper words that "incited" the alleged holocaust.
Thereby, Jews have established a model of whom is liable for prosecution, and JASTA is the equivalent of the Charter of the International Military Tribunal that enabled the Nuremberg Trials.
Therefore, every newsperson who has disseminated information, in print, verbally, by Tweet, email, or otherwise, that vilified the citizens of another state such that they were rendered subject to attack, physical harm, deprivation of their rights to life or property, must be put on notice that they are liable to be prosecuted for their participation in crimes against those people.
I suggest a letter be drafted and distributed to such persons.
A list of the most egregious suspects can be easily drawn up, but as the David Engel/Jewish model of prosecuting persons even tangentially related to the commission of alleged crimes directs, clerks in newsrooms; the folks who man the cameras, the sound system; staffers in congressional offices -- one all all, they, too, could be subject to prosecution under the Jewish/David Engel theory, and should be solemnly warned.
US government leaders are threatening to, and preparing to, impose a "no - fly" zone over Syria. As US government spokespersons have conceded, war crimes could evolve from such an action. The act itself is a war crime: it amounts to the waging of war against a sovereign state. Anybody -- any US citizen who participates in such an act should be warned that his/her participation may result in prosecution for war crimes.
How 'bout it, Samantha Power: Don't we have a Responsibility to Protect US citizens, first and foremost, from engaging in acts that might make them complicit in the commission of crimes that could result in their prosecution a la JASTA, or Nuremberg, or the Eichmann trial?
I suppose you mean Julius Streicher, Nazi boss of Franconia, a noted pervert [homosexual] and one of the most unsavoury characters in the Third Reich.
He was a bitter rival of Adolf’s – in vying for political upper-hand that is, not child pornography, this latter talent exclusively his own.
Here is Shirer:
And I mention nothing – nor wish to – regarding that degenerate’s contributions to the Holocaust.
Be careful, your reputation tends to get cemented by the company you defend so zealously.
Are you suggesting that Streicher was executed for being a pervert?
Or are you complaining that he encroached upon what, according to Nathan Abrams in Jewish Quarterly, is a Jewish-dominated marketplace:
There’s a book making the rounds, a memoir of a Jewish woman who fled from her “neurotic” Jewish mother in NYC, to Israel, where she joined the IDF. The author wrote that her journey was “heroic”, and that she found herself in the company of her IDF colleagues who “just couldn’t wait to get into Gaza and shoot Arabs.” The contrast, here, is between a woman who fled from her mother, an accomplished pianist who was “neurotic” because she disliked Israel, and a man who apparently stuck with his father and carried on his porn business.
Which one’s the degenerate?
The reviews for Dor Sasson’s memoir that disses her mother and favors IDF companions who express Arab-killing bloodlust are overwhelming positive, even glowing. Apparently a lot of people — one would expect, predominantly Jews, “defend” such “company.”
Similarly, the Jewish community in Cleveland does not appear to have ostracized the Sturman family. Is that “good for the Jews?” “Be careful, your reputation tends to get cemented by the company you defend so zealously. ”
Nathan Abrams continues:
Under what charges should David Sturman be tried? http://www.jewishquarterly.org/issuearchive/articled325.html?articleid=38
How about Steven Hirsch, “the Donald Trump of porn?”
Speaking of Donald Trump, in light of recent revelations of his compulsion to be surrounded by, and have access to, beautiful women, what might a reasonable person conclude from this photo of Arnon Milchan, and should he be tried and executed for spying on the USA for Israel or for what the media has judged, in the case of Trump, his disgusting misogynistic habits? http://www.nbcnews.com/watch/nightly-news/hollywood-producer-admits-to-being-israeli-spy-74945603827
Missed this part earlier. What on earth are you getting at? Donald's history as a hound dog has what to do with Arnon?
Are you saying since the media has uniformly [well except Hannity I suppose] condemned DT, they ought to focus their attention on a Joo called Milchan as well? I think that tenuous equivalence is what they call a brain fart in New York.
Ok I'll take my leave at this point. The perspicacity weighs on me.
Which one's the degenerate?
The reviews for Dor Sasson's memoir that disses her mother and favors IDF companions who express Arab-killing bloodlust are overwhelming positive, even glowing. Apparently a lot of people -- one would expect, predominantly Jews, "defend" such "company."
Similarly, the Jewish community in Cleveland does not appear to have ostracized the Sturman family. Is that "good for the Jews?" "Be careful, your reputation tends to get cemented by the company you defend so zealously. " Nathan Abrams continues:Under what charges should David Sturman be tried? http://www.jewishquarterly.org/issuearchive/articled325.html?articleid=38How about Steven Hirsch, "the Donald Trump of porn?"Speaking of Donald Trump, in light of recent revelations of his compulsion to be surrounded by, and have access to, beautiful women, what might a reasonable person conclude from this photo of Arnon Milchan, and should he be tried and executed for spying on the USA for Israel or for what the media has judged, in the case of Trump, his disgusting misogynistic habits? http://www.nbcnews.com/watch/nightly-news/hollywood-producer-admits-to-being-israeli-spy-74945603827
As I said I am not about to elaborate on Streicher’s role in the Holocaust – there was more than sufficient cause, and you are hardly the jurist to start dissenting with the Nuremberg bench – it is simply that I have no wish to turn this into another jackbooted ecstasy for you pleasure; and the editor’s displeasure, I might note. Streicher was a perverted criminal against humanity.
It’s only your typical muddle-headed tosh which confuses all jews as subscribing to uniform tastes. Pornography and sexual perversion are revolting and carry no qualifying reservations of utility based on religion. Or do you tar all catholics for the historically pedophilic church?
What about the septuagenarian Israeli citizen Arnon Milchan bragging about playing Bond and procuring nuclear switches? Had the U.S. any wish to prosecute him they’d have done so already, and as far as I am concerned put the old bastard in gaol – or the gallows; couldn’t care less. Nuclear science and technology have a chequered history and European jews have been at the very centre of it all, from bringing it to the U.S. to extending it afterwards for civilian purposes.
Which one's the degenerate?
The reviews for Dor Sasson's memoir that disses her mother and favors IDF companions who express Arab-killing bloodlust are overwhelming positive, even glowing. Apparently a lot of people -- one would expect, predominantly Jews, "defend" such "company."
Similarly, the Jewish community in Cleveland does not appear to have ostracized the Sturman family. Is that "good for the Jews?" "Be careful, your reputation tends to get cemented by the company you defend so zealously. " Nathan Abrams continues:Under what charges should David Sturman be tried? http://www.jewishquarterly.org/issuearchive/articled325.html?articleid=38How about Steven Hirsch, "the Donald Trump of porn?"Speaking of Donald Trump, in light of recent revelations of his compulsion to be surrounded by, and have access to, beautiful women, what might a reasonable person conclude from this photo of Arnon Milchan, and should he be tried and executed for spying on the USA for Israel or for what the media has judged, in the case of Trump, his disgusting misogynistic habits? http://www.nbcnews.com/watch/nightly-news/hollywood-producer-admits-to-being-israeli-spy-74945603827
[Speaking of Donald Trump, in light of recent revelations of his compulsion to be surrounded by, and have access to, beautiful women, what might a reasonable person conclude from this photo of Arnon Milchan]
Missed this part earlier. What on earth are you getting at? Donald’s history as a hound dog has what to do with Arnon?
Are you saying since the media has uniformly [well except Hannity I suppose] condemned DT, they ought to focus their attention on a Joo called Milchan as well? I think that tenuous equivalence is what they call a brain fart in New York.
Ok I’ll take my leave at this point. The perspicacity weighs on me.
He'll bounce back big time. He handled the debate well, and is finally putting it to Hillary.
GROPER BEATS KILLER
'
VOTE TRUMP!
David Engel devoted at least half of one lecture to detailing how "ordinary people" were complicit in the alleged holocaust: not only actual warriors in Germany but persons such as the man who dispatched the train, the man who closed the door on the train, persons who worked in factories that made weapons -- all and sundry were complicit in the alleged holocaust, therefore subject to prosecution for crimes against the Jewish people.
And we are aware that Jules Streicher was executed for the crime of writing in a newspaper words that "incited" the alleged holocaust.
Thereby, Jews have established a model of whom is liable for prosecution, and JASTA is the equivalent of the Charter of the International Military Tribunal that enabled the Nuremberg Trials.
Therefore, every newsperson who has disseminated information, in print, verbally, by Tweet, email, or otherwise, that vilified the citizens of another state such that they were rendered subject to attack, physical harm, deprivation of their rights to life or property, must be put on notice that they are liable to be prosecuted for their participation in crimes against those people.
I suggest a letter be drafted and distributed to such persons.
A list of the most egregious suspects can be easily drawn up, but as the David Engel/Jewish model of prosecuting persons even tangentially related to the commission of alleged crimes directs, clerks in newsrooms; the folks who man the cameras, the sound system; staffers in congressional offices -- one all all, they, too, could be subject to prosecution under the Jewish/David Engel theory, and should be solemnly warned.
US government leaders are threatening to, and preparing to, impose a "no - fly" zone over Syria. As US government spokespersons have conceded, war crimes could evolve from such an action. The act itself is a war crime: it amounts to the waging of war against a sovereign state. Anybody -- any US citizen who participates in such an act should be warned that his/her participation may result in prosecution for war crimes.
How 'bout it, Samantha Power: Don't we have a Responsibility to Protect US citizens, first and foremost, from engaging in acts that might make them complicit in the commission of crimes that could result in their prosecution a la JASTA, or Nuremberg, or the Eichmann trial?
“ordinary people” were complicit in the alleged holocaust
It was war, deprivation was commonplace. A person has the right to try and survive, right?
I just did my job. All I did was drop these little pellets into the tube, what happened after that I can’t say, that part was not part of my job. Well yes, I did notice that thousands of people arrived on the trains and hardly any left the camp. The camp seemed small but I guess it could have held a couple million people without me noticing. I never really thought about it.
Missed this part earlier. What on earth are you getting at? Donald's history as a hound dog has what to do with Arnon?
Are you saying since the media has uniformly [well except Hannity I suppose] condemned DT, they ought to focus their attention on a Joo called Milchan as well? I think that tenuous equivalence is what they call a brain fart in New York.
Ok I'll take my leave at this point. The perspicacity weighs on me.
This hypocrisy about Trump is pathetic. If he were a sports figure or actor, guys would be doing fist pumps, “What a stud,” and women would admit to lining up to be touched by money.
He’ll bounce back big time. He handled the debate well, and is finally putting it to Hillary.
GROPER BEATS KILLER
‘
VOTE TRUMP!
It was war, deprivation was commonplace. A person has the right to try and survive, right?
I just did my job. All I did was drop these little pellets into the tube, what happened after that I can't say, that part was not part of my job. Well yes, I did notice that thousands of people arrived on the trains and hardly any left the camp. The camp seemed small but I guess it could have held a couple million people without me noticing. I never really thought about it.
You got the idea, iffen:
A million or more people are dead in Iraq because of American actions there.
The GI Joe or Jane who flagged down the runway the fighter jet that dropped the bombs on innocent civilians — or “insurgents”** are complicit in war crimes: WE ACKNOWLEDGE that we waged war on Iraq under false pretenses: WHY are we still there? We are committing war crimes. — (**watch this conversation with the brilliant Jeff Halper as he observes how Israeli practices have even changed the language we used — https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVa0QbH8YcA
In turn, Halper made me think of the Roger Waters production, The Occupation of the American Mind
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDoQAhMpFJc )– anyway, all of those people were “just doing their job.”
Sam is correct, I’m no jurist, but it seems to me Nuremberg rejected the defense, “I was just doing my job.” Hundreds of Germans who were “just following orders,” or “just doing their job,” were convicted and punished.
Subsequently, Jews have used US institutions as well as Israeli institutions to prosecute numerous other people who were “just doing their jobs,” — jobs like handling baggage at train stations: such men have been hounded down, even at age 93, prosecuted by Jews, convicted and punished.
If the notion of “equal justice under the law” means anything, and should be considered a pillar of civilized society, than an American, or an Israeli, who engaged in similar activity that resulted in the death or harm to the person or property of an Iraqi, or a Syrian, or a Libyan, should likewise be subject to being hounded, for the rest of his/her natural life, and subject to prosecution and punishment for those crimes.
I think every Congressional staffer, every civilian truck driver who delivers MANPADs that find their way to Syria, every warehouse clerk who gathers and loads the truck — every person who fits any of the categories that David Engel describes in “Understanding the Holocaust” — all of those people should be warned that what they are doing amounts to participation in a war crime, and they will be held accountable.
The German people as a collective were punished for being citizens of a state that committed acts retroactively defined as war crimes. If they actively participated, they were held accountable for their actions. If they failed to resist, they were held accountable for their inaction. They were starved, kept homeless for anywhere from two to five years after the hot war ended. They were subjected to psychological warfare, they were brainwashed, they were coerced to deny their own identity.
How are the American people who pay the taxes and elect legislators who authorize war crimes any less culpable than the German people, and why should they not expect to be held accountable for their war crimes?
Well, number one is that you have to actually lose the war and fall under the more or less complete control of the other power(s).
I’m not so sure, Sam. I went back and I reread her letter and was struck by this sentence:
It kind’a reminded me of a sentence you once wrote, not too long ago, here at Unz:
I’m confused, Sam. Do you no longer consider yourself to be “one of the very small and extraordinary minority of people who can see Zionism for what it is” or do you still “pine for what it used to be”? Is it a moral or immoral cause? Which is it, Sam?
why should they not expect to be held accountable for their war crimes?
Well, number one is that you have to actually lose the war and fall under the more or less complete control of the other power(s).
It's an especially dodgy standard given that the Allies committed war crimes in order to "win" the war -- they deliberately firebombed civilians, including the deliberate, planned and rehearsed targeting of infants in their cribs for incineration by firebombing --
DUGWAY PROVING GROUND,
GERMAN-JAPANESE VILLAGE, GERMAN VILLAGE
HISTORIC AMERICAN ENGINEERING RECORD [HAER} INTERMOUNTAIN SUPPORT OFFICE - DENVER National Park Service U.S. Department of the Interior
https://cdn.loc.gov/master/pnp/habshaer/ut/ut0500/ut0568/data/ut0568data.pdf
page 16,One difference between the scenario you described @ #128 and this commentary/my argument is that your scenario is spun from your imagination, whereas mine is evidence-based and documented.
Well, number one is that you have to actually lose the war and fall under the more or less complete control of the other power(s).
Well, number one is that you have to actually be an African ruler:
Well, number one is that you have to actually lose the war and fall under the more or less complete control of the other power(s).
So the iffen standard for Equal Justice Under the Law amounts to who wins vs who loses? Even Curtis LeMay saw the moral queasiness of that position.
It’s an especially dodgy standard given that the Allies committed war crimes in order to “win” the war — they deliberately firebombed civilians, including the deliberate, planned and rehearsed targeting of infants in their cribs for incineration by firebombing —
DUGWAY PROVING GROUND,
GERMAN-JAPANESE VILLAGE, GERMAN VILLAGE
HISTORIC AMERICAN ENGINEERING RECORD [HAER} INTERMOUNTAIN SUPPORT OFFICE – DENVER National Park Service U.S. Department of the Interior
https://cdn.loc.gov/master/pnp/habshaer/ut/ut0500/ut0568/data/ut0568data.pdf
page 16,
One difference between the scenario you described @ #128 and this commentary/my argument is that your scenario is spun from your imagination, whereas mine is evidence-based and documented.
Iffen happens to be correct in his assessment of war crimes legislation and prosecution. If you have a superior solution which does not involve large quantities of pseudo-moralistic gaseous emissions do let us know.
The list of crimes on civilian populations - and you can continue to belittle the Holocaust as you always do, until that one day when you will get caught pushing it just a bit too far - committed by Adolf and his cronies have sprouted many dissertations - and my meagre pen might prove unequal to do justice in as comprehensive a manner as the subject deserves. In that vein I offer the following episodes:
[By way of a further note permit me to also mention that Incitatus had written in response to these very dronings of your's, but you are like a recessive gene, lurking in the background ready to spring into action whenever the environment is unwary]
[Just before Barbarossa was to be unleashed on Russia in 1941, there was a coup in Yugoslavia, following that little primping pipsqueak Mussolini's idiotic move into Albania]
Take it from William H. Shirer:Yugoslavia and Greece, which Hitler had just crushed, were brutally attacked without provocation, and they had instinctively tried to defend themselves because they had a sense of honour and because they had courage even in the face of hopeless odds.
Now take Babarossa which followed in the footsteps of the massacre of Belgrade, was to begin on June 22, 1941.
Again, here is Shirer:We all know the size of civilians deliberately murdered by Nazi Germans only through Dec 1941: at least 800,000.
https://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/photo/2011/07/world-war-ii-operation-barbarossa/w25_3c06287u/main_900.jpg?1420520244
The little conclusion of this post is obvious: there were plenty of civilian deaths to go around, but S2C chooses to commemorate only those of German "Aryans". War crimes prosecutions are carried out by victors, and thus it shall always be.
I, for my part am terribly pleased to be speaking the King's tongue and not subjected to compulsory sauerkraut for breakfast, lunch and dinner.
Some I condemn; some I defend and about some I am conflicted.
I am conflicted over whether giving the bastards a fair trial before hanging them was the way to go.
Well, number one is that you have to actually lose the war and fall under the more or less complete control of the other power(s).
Give it time, it will happen.
It's an especially dodgy standard given that the Allies committed war crimes in order to "win" the war -- they deliberately firebombed civilians, including the deliberate, planned and rehearsed targeting of infants in their cribs for incineration by firebombing --
DUGWAY PROVING GROUND,
GERMAN-JAPANESE VILLAGE, GERMAN VILLAGE
HISTORIC AMERICAN ENGINEERING RECORD [HAER} INTERMOUNTAIN SUPPORT OFFICE - DENVER National Park Service U.S. Department of the Interior
https://cdn.loc.gov/master/pnp/habshaer/ut/ut0500/ut0568/data/ut0568data.pdf
page 16,One difference between the scenario you described @ #128 and this commentary/my argument is that your scenario is spun from your imagination, whereas mine is evidence-based and documented.
I certainly understand why you choose to read history selectively.
Iffen happens to be correct in his assessment of war crimes legislation and prosecution. If you have a superior solution which does not involve large quantities of pseudo-moralistic gaseous emissions do let us know.
The list of crimes on civilian populations – and you can continue to belittle the Holocaust as you always do, until that one day when you will get caught pushing it just a bit too far – committed by Adolf and his cronies have sprouted many dissertations – and my meagre pen might prove unequal to do justice in as comprehensive a manner as the subject deserves. In that vein I offer the following episodes:
[By way of a further note permit me to also mention that Incitatus had written in response to these very dronings of your's, but you are like a recessive gene, lurking in the background ready to spring into action whenever the environment is unwary]
[Just before Barbarossa was to be unleashed on Russia in 1941, there was a coup in Yugoslavia, following that little primping pipsqueak Mussolini's idiotic move into Albania]
Take it from William H. Shirer:
Yugoslavia and Greece, which Hitler had just crushed, were brutally attacked without provocation, and they had instinctively tried to defend themselves because they had a sense of honour and because they had courage even in the face of hopeless odds.
Now take Babarossa which followed in the footsteps of the massacre of Belgrade, was to begin on June 22, 1941.
Again, here is Shirer:
We all know the size of civilians deliberately murdered by Nazi Germans only through Dec 1941: at least 800,000.
https://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/photo/2011/07/world-war-ii-operation-barbarossa/w25_3c06287u/main_900.jpg?1420520244
The little conclusion of this post is obvious: there were plenty of civilian deaths to go around, but S2C chooses to commemorate only those of German “Aryans”. War crimes prosecutions are carried out by victors, and thus it shall always be.
I, for my part am terribly pleased to be speaking the King’s tongue and not subjected to compulsory sauerkraut for breakfast, lunch and dinner.
nb. your reliance on Shirer is so earnest, so child-like, so last century. Just the other day a client told me mid-century modern is all the rage.
You are aware, aren't you, that Shirer was on the OSS - CIA payroll to produce propaganda, which included atrocity propaganda?It may well be true that the Germans did whatever it is you claim Shirer said they did.
But because the field has been so completely corrupted by propaganda masquerading as history, one really can't know if it's the real turtle soup or merely the mock.Historian Thomas Fleming has reflected that the first fifty years or so of commentary about an event like WWII is overladen with emotion; it takes at least that long for the emotion to burn off and the necessary cold objectivity to take its place.
Furthermore, as Thomas Mahl observed in "Desperate Deception," many archives are still not open to examination by historians, but also that the gradual opening of some archives, such as limited access to British code-breaking files, has meant that "all of the histories prior to the 1970s and 1980s must be rewritten." Shirer produced his magnum opus -- aka his get-out-of-bankruptcy-opus -- in the mid-1950s iirc. Why, according to professor David Engel in "Understanding the Holocaust," the special character of the holocaust was not spotlighted until after the Eichmann trial in the early 1960s. No doubt you've read Shirer diligently, m'boy; and you've done a fine job of type-and-paste. But while the information may or may not be corrupt, it's certainly out-of-date; yesterday's haggis n neeps.
It's an especially dodgy standard given that the Allies committed war crimes in order to "win" the war -- they deliberately firebombed civilians, including the deliberate, planned and rehearsed targeting of infants in their cribs for incineration by firebombing --
DUGWAY PROVING GROUND,
GERMAN-JAPANESE VILLAGE, GERMAN VILLAGE
HISTORIC AMERICAN ENGINEERING RECORD [HAER} INTERMOUNTAIN SUPPORT OFFICE - DENVER National Park Service U.S. Department of the Interior
https://cdn.loc.gov/master/pnp/habshaer/ut/ut0500/ut0568/data/ut0568data.pdf
page 16,One difference between the scenario you described @ #128 and this commentary/my argument is that your scenario is spun from your imagination, whereas mine is evidence-based and documented.
the iffen standard for Equal Justice Under the Law
I can’t defend all the actions and policies of my country over these many years.
Some I condemn; some I defend and about some I am conflicted.
I am conflicted over whether giving the bastards a fair trial before hanging them was the way to go.
Iffen happens to be correct in his assessment of war crimes legislation and prosecution. If you have a superior solution which does not involve large quantities of pseudo-moralistic gaseous emissions do let us know.
The list of crimes on civilian populations - and you can continue to belittle the Holocaust as you always do, until that one day when you will get caught pushing it just a bit too far - committed by Adolf and his cronies have sprouted many dissertations - and my meagre pen might prove unequal to do justice in as comprehensive a manner as the subject deserves. In that vein I offer the following episodes:
[By way of a further note permit me to also mention that Incitatus had written in response to these very dronings of your's, but you are like a recessive gene, lurking in the background ready to spring into action whenever the environment is unwary]
[Just before Barbarossa was to be unleashed on Russia in 1941, there was a coup in Yugoslavia, following that little primping pipsqueak Mussolini's idiotic move into Albania]
Take it from William H. Shirer:Yugoslavia and Greece, which Hitler had just crushed, were brutally attacked without provocation, and they had instinctively tried to defend themselves because they had a sense of honour and because they had courage even in the face of hopeless odds.
Now take Babarossa which followed in the footsteps of the massacre of Belgrade, was to begin on June 22, 1941.
Again, here is Shirer:We all know the size of civilians deliberately murdered by Nazi Germans only through Dec 1941: at least 800,000.
https://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/photo/2011/07/world-war-ii-operation-barbarossa/w25_3c06287u/main_900.jpg?1420520244
The little conclusion of this post is obvious: there were plenty of civilian deaths to go around, but S2C chooses to commemorate only those of German "Aryans". War crimes prosecutions are carried out by victors, and thus it shall always be.
I, for my part am terribly pleased to be speaking the King's tongue and not subjected to compulsory sauerkraut for breakfast, lunch and dinner.
King David spoke English?
Iffen happens to be correct in his assessment of war crimes legislation and prosecution. If you have a superior solution which does not involve large quantities of pseudo-moralistic gaseous emissions do let us know.
The list of crimes on civilian populations - and you can continue to belittle the Holocaust as you always do, until that one day when you will get caught pushing it just a bit too far - committed by Adolf and his cronies have sprouted many dissertations - and my meagre pen might prove unequal to do justice in as comprehensive a manner as the subject deserves. In that vein I offer the following episodes:
[By way of a further note permit me to also mention that Incitatus had written in response to these very dronings of your's, but you are like a recessive gene, lurking in the background ready to spring into action whenever the environment is unwary]
[Just before Barbarossa was to be unleashed on Russia in 1941, there was a coup in Yugoslavia, following that little primping pipsqueak Mussolini's idiotic move into Albania]
Take it from William H. Shirer:Yugoslavia and Greece, which Hitler had just crushed, were brutally attacked without provocation, and they had instinctively tried to defend themselves because they had a sense of honour and because they had courage even in the face of hopeless odds.
Now take Babarossa which followed in the footsteps of the massacre of Belgrade, was to begin on June 22, 1941.
Again, here is Shirer:We all know the size of civilians deliberately murdered by Nazi Germans only through Dec 1941: at least 800,000.
https://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/photo/2011/07/world-war-ii-operation-barbarossa/w25_3c06287u/main_900.jpg?1420520244
The little conclusion of this post is obvious: there were plenty of civilian deaths to go around, but S2C chooses to commemorate only those of German "Aryans". War crimes prosecutions are carried out by victors, and thus it shall always be.
I, for my part am terribly pleased to be speaking the King's tongue and not subjected to compulsory sauerkraut for breakfast, lunch and dinner.
Surely MacDonalds would have been far more successful mass marketing haggis burgers and boiled neeps & tatties rather than Hamburg-ers and French-fried potatoes. And what’s a baseball game without a fine King’s English dish of deviled kidneys, hold the mustard.
–
nb. your reliance on Shirer is so earnest, so child-like, so last century. Just the other day a client told me mid-century modern is all the rage.
You are aware, aren’t you, that Shirer was on the OSS – CIA payroll to produce propaganda, which included atrocity propaganda?
It may well be true that the Germans did whatever it is you claim Shirer said they did.
But because the field has been so completely corrupted by propaganda masquerading as history, one really can’t know if it’s the real turtle soup or merely the mock.
Historian Thomas Fleming has reflected that the first fifty years or so of commentary about an event like WWII is overladen with emotion; it takes at least that long for the emotion to burn off and the necessary cold objectivity to take its place.
Furthermore, as Thomas Mahl observed in “Desperate Deception,” many archives are still not open to examination by historians, but also that the gradual opening of some archives, such as limited access to British code-breaking files, has meant that “all of the histories prior to the 1970s and 1980s must be rewritten.” Shirer produced his magnum opus — aka his get-out-of-bankruptcy-opus — in the mid-1950s iirc. Why, according to professor David Engel in “Understanding the Holocaust,” the special character of the holocaust was not spotlighted until after the Eichmann trial in the early 1960s.
No doubt you’ve read Shirer diligently, m’boy; and you’ve done a fine job of type-and-paste. But while the information may or may not be corrupt, it’s certainly out-of-date; yesterday’s haggis n neeps.
Zvi Rex once remarked: "The Germans will never forgive the Jews for Auschwitz."
He was wrong. It's the Jew-haters that will never forgive, not the Germans.
Your casual dismissive manner suggests you haven't really studied Shirer, 1245 pages with diligently referenced primary source documentation, including living testimonies, copious diary entries and the official memoranda of most of the top Nazi warlords: Goebbels, Goering, Halder, Ribbentrop, Fritsch, Neurath, Schacht, Rosenberg etc., not to mention the 'thoughts' of some of the valkyrie women led by dear Magda.
So, directly displaying Shirer's writing is far more effective than a paraphrase, and I should like you to prove which portions constitute "may or may not be true" in your risible claim. The 'may not' part, that is. You will require more than a handful of straws to grasp at, for those portions are direct personal diary entries, addended further by official Nazi memoranda. [e.g., there is nothing 'subjective' about Directive 25 on the Belgrade massacre, and only an idiot would claim otherwise]
There are commenters on this board - it's easy to discern - who are fine historians: Incitatus, 5371, Random Observer and Iffen. I thought you might have some good insights, but your obvious proclivities negate the positives.
On a final note, deviled kidneys [w/Worcester sauce] are scrumptious; even better on buttered crumpets with a side of eggs. Beats overpriced boiled starches with tomato paste any day of the week.
This is the sort of person, who, with a straight face, tells us that the reason the cowardly idf took a drubbing in South Lebanon, 2006, was because, you see, the idf sissies adhere to such strict ROE!!
That despite the fact that is well documented that they carpet bombed Lebanon to such an extent, that even US military observers were appalled. Methinks the thousands of civilians killed and wounded must have felt otherwise.
You mightn’t know, but Kingsley Amis ring a bell? “The King’s English” , [St. Martin's Press].
https://www.c-span.org/video/?322861-1/explaining-hitler-zone-interest
The Amis family has done almost as well as the Sturman family in producing porn, Amis's peculiar kink being setting a love story atop a meadow heaving with Jewish corpses (actually, skeletons -- no, actually, Jewish femurs) against a backdrop of lampshades made of Jewish skin. Charming and oh so believable.
nb. your reliance on Shirer is so earnest, so child-like, so last century. Just the other day a client told me mid-century modern is all the rage.
You are aware, aren't you, that Shirer was on the OSS - CIA payroll to produce propaganda, which included atrocity propaganda?It may well be true that the Germans did whatever it is you claim Shirer said they did.
But because the field has been so completely corrupted by propaganda masquerading as history, one really can't know if it's the real turtle soup or merely the mock.Historian Thomas Fleming has reflected that the first fifty years or so of commentary about an event like WWII is overladen with emotion; it takes at least that long for the emotion to burn off and the necessary cold objectivity to take its place.
Furthermore, as Thomas Mahl observed in "Desperate Deception," many archives are still not open to examination by historians, but also that the gradual opening of some archives, such as limited access to British code-breaking files, has meant that "all of the histories prior to the 1970s and 1980s must be rewritten." Shirer produced his magnum opus -- aka his get-out-of-bankruptcy-opus -- in the mid-1950s iirc. Why, according to professor David Engel in "Understanding the Holocaust," the special character of the holocaust was not spotlighted until after the Eichmann trial in the early 1960s. No doubt you've read Shirer diligently, m'boy; and you've done a fine job of type-and-paste. But while the information may or may not be corrupt, it's certainly out-of-date; yesterday's haggis n neeps.
it’s certainly out-of-date
Zvi Rex once remarked: “The Germans will never forgive the Jews for Auschwitz.”
He was wrong. It’s the Jew-haters that will never forgive, not the Germans.
Moreover, a quick search revealed that the quote is wrongly attributed to Rex.
FAIL, iffen.It seems more important to understand how and why events took place as they actually did. History is one of the pillars used to create policy for present and future actions. If the foundation is distorted, the analysis based upon it cannot possibly be sound.Reasoning backward, from the hash that is present US foreign policy, is the most damning indictment conceivable of the accuracy of historical reporting on such (grossly fraudulent) events as Auschwitz.This morning Martin Smith, who offers a very serious deportment, seeming to be very trustworthy, appeared on C Span to talk about a Frontline documentary about ISIS. I'd never heard of the guy, and I don't watch mainstream/cable teevee, but listening to just 30 min. of the guy made it obvious that he's today's version of William Shirer. His job is no different from the British propagandists Ron Unz reviewed here; namely, to propagandize a sufficient proportion of the American people to acquiesce to more war in the Middle East, with specific goals to further vilify Iran and to bring about the total destruction, then partition, of Syria.What "superpower" other than the USA made such consistent and persistent use of hate-mongering with the goal of inducing people to kill their brother- and sister-humans in far-away places?
(Answer: Yes: the British. Our sainted Mother.)The American people have had this done to them before -- they were propagandized to hate Germans, at a time when Germans comprised the second-largest ethnic group in the USA. The target today is "Islamic radicals" with special attention to Iran: they must be hated, preparatory to killing them. How stupid are we to allow the same stunt to be pulled on us again?And whose team is iffen on if-en he/she continues to obscure the facts and label those who try to point out the obvious patterns, as "Jew haters?" iffen is not doing Jews any favors, and he/she is certainly not promoting the best interests of the American people.
Zvi Rex once remarked: "The Germans will never forgive the Jews for Auschwitz."
He was wrong. It's the Jew-haters that will never forgive, not the Germans.
Who is Zvi Rex and why should I care?
Moreover, a quick search revealed that the quote is wrongly attributed to Rex.
FAIL, iffen.
It seems more important to understand how and why events took place as they actually did. History is one of the pillars used to create policy for present and future actions. If the foundation is distorted, the analysis based upon it cannot possibly be sound.
Reasoning backward, from the hash that is present US foreign policy, is the most damning indictment conceivable of the accuracy of historical reporting on such (grossly fraudulent) events as Auschwitz.
This morning Martin Smith, who offers a very serious deportment, seeming to be very trustworthy, appeared on C Span to talk about a Frontline documentary about ISIS.
I’d never heard of the guy, and I don’t watch mainstream/cable teevee, but listening to just 30 min. of the guy made it obvious that he’s today’s version of William Shirer. His job is no different from the British propagandists Ron Unz reviewed here; namely, to propagandize a sufficient proportion of the American people to acquiesce to more war in the Middle East, with specific goals to further vilify Iran and to bring about the total destruction, then partition, of Syria.
What “superpower” other than the USA made such consistent and persistent use of hate-mongering with the goal of inducing people to kill their brother- and sister-humans in far-away places?
(Answer: Yes: the British. Our sainted Mother.)
The American people have had this done to them before — they were propagandized to hate Germans, at a time when Germans comprised the second-largest ethnic group in the USA. The target today is “Islamic radicals” with special attention to Iran: they must be hated, preparatory to killing them. How stupid are we to allow the same stunt to be pulled on us again?
And whose team is iffen on if-en he/she continues to obscure the facts and label those who try to point out the obvious patterns, as “Jew haters?” iffen is not doing Jews any favors, and he/she is certainly not promoting the best interests of the American people.
Got that certifying document yet?
Americans don't hate Germans and never have. They hate Nazis as well they should.
Kingsley Amis, father of Martin Amis, concocter of holocaust-porn
https://www.c-span.org/video/?322861-1/explaining-hitler-zone-interest
The Amis family has done almost as well as the Sturman family in producing porn, Amis’s peculiar kink being setting a love story atop a meadow heaving with Jewish corpses (actually, skeletons — no, actually, Jewish femurs) against a backdrop of lampshades made of Jewish skin. Charming and oh so believable.
nb. your reliance on Shirer is so earnest, so child-like, so last century. Just the other day a client told me mid-century modern is all the rage.
You are aware, aren't you, that Shirer was on the OSS - CIA payroll to produce propaganda, which included atrocity propaganda?It may well be true that the Germans did whatever it is you claim Shirer said they did.
But because the field has been so completely corrupted by propaganda masquerading as history, one really can't know if it's the real turtle soup or merely the mock.Historian Thomas Fleming has reflected that the first fifty years or so of commentary about an event like WWII is overladen with emotion; it takes at least that long for the emotion to burn off and the necessary cold objectivity to take its place.
Furthermore, as Thomas Mahl observed in "Desperate Deception," many archives are still not open to examination by historians, but also that the gradual opening of some archives, such as limited access to British code-breaking files, has meant that "all of the histories prior to the 1970s and 1980s must be rewritten." Shirer produced his magnum opus -- aka his get-out-of-bankruptcy-opus -- in the mid-1950s iirc. Why, according to professor David Engel in "Understanding the Holocaust," the special character of the holocaust was not spotlighted until after the Eichmann trial in the early 1960s. No doubt you've read Shirer diligently, m'boy; and you've done a fine job of type-and-paste. But while the information may or may not be corrupt, it's certainly out-of-date; yesterday's haggis n neeps.
I’ll be the first to admit that history is subject on which I am inadequately trained. Yet I am on my way to remedying that shortcoming. I’ve finished Shirer, Anatoli Kuznetsov’s Babi Yar, Brigitte Hamman’s Hitler’s Vienna and yes, Adolf’s own, strange, ruminations. I’ve got a long list to read [provided by Incitatus] but that’s all I could do in about two months, yet I daresay now that I’ve put my mind to it, it won’t take me quite as many years as it must have taken you to fill that deep wellspring which produces repetitious drivel with all the incessant drudgery of zealotry untouched by wisdom. It’s oddly humourous that you should dismiss cut and paste, you being the indubitable champion of that particular sport. For instance, I might point out when you write extemporaneously [as I am now], you often produce howlers. Shall I reference a recent one?
Your casual dismissive manner suggests you haven’t really studied Shirer, 1245 pages with diligently referenced primary source documentation, including living testimonies, copious diary entries and the official memoranda of most of the top Nazi warlords: Goebbels, Goering, Halder, Ribbentrop, Fritsch, Neurath, Schacht, Rosenberg etc., not to mention the ‘thoughts’ of some of the valkyrie women led by dear Magda.
So, directly displaying Shirer’s writing is far more effective than a paraphrase, and I should like you to prove which portions constitute “may or may not be true” in your risible claim. The ‘may not’ part, that is. You will require more than a handful of straws to grasp at, for those portions are direct personal diary entries, addended further by official Nazi memoranda. [e.g., there is nothing 'subjective' about Directive 25 on the Belgrade massacre, and only an idiot would claim otherwise]
There are commenters on this board – it’s easy to discern – who are fine historians: Incitatus, 5371, Random Observer and Iffen. I thought you might have some good insights, but your obvious proclivities negate the positives.
On a final note, deviled kidneys [w/Worcester sauce] are scrumptious; even better on buttered crumpets with a side of eggs. Beats overpriced boiled starches with tomato paste any day of the week.
FYI, the Babi Yar story is a fraud, a debunked fraud. Not that you woud know it or accept that of course... not even if a mountain of evidence stood in your face!
Besides being a Zionist activist and a proven liar, Sam is also a good comedian!
He goes:Buahahaha, good one, Sammy boy!! Your inclusion of iffen & incitatus was particularly amusing!
Why do YOU support open debate on the Holocaust?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OAlBWA2Jvc
Sorry Mom, I was wrong about the Holocaust
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0_BZphQ7Qo
Sam, after reading Shirer what is your opinion on his presentation of Sonderweg?
From Wiki:
The harshest criticism came from those who disagreed [with Shirer] with the Sonderweg or "Luther to Hitler" thesis.
I remember this discussion from many years ago. I had to look up the name of the premise as I couldn’t remember it.
BTW, I am reading an excellent bio of the original 88 himself, Hitler Ascent by Volker Ullrich.
Moreover, a quick search revealed that the quote is wrongly attributed to Rex.
FAIL, iffen.It seems more important to understand how and why events took place as they actually did. History is one of the pillars used to create policy for present and future actions. If the foundation is distorted, the analysis based upon it cannot possibly be sound.Reasoning backward, from the hash that is present US foreign policy, is the most damning indictment conceivable of the accuracy of historical reporting on such (grossly fraudulent) events as Auschwitz.This morning Martin Smith, who offers a very serious deportment, seeming to be very trustworthy, appeared on C Span to talk about a Frontline documentary about ISIS. I'd never heard of the guy, and I don't watch mainstream/cable teevee, but listening to just 30 min. of the guy made it obvious that he's today's version of William Shirer. His job is no different from the British propagandists Ron Unz reviewed here; namely, to propagandize a sufficient proportion of the American people to acquiesce to more war in the Middle East, with specific goals to further vilify Iran and to bring about the total destruction, then partition, of Syria.What "superpower" other than the USA made such consistent and persistent use of hate-mongering with the goal of inducing people to kill their brother- and sister-humans in far-away places?
(Answer: Yes: the British. Our sainted Mother.)The American people have had this done to them before -- they were propagandized to hate Germans, at a time when Germans comprised the second-largest ethnic group in the USA. The target today is "Islamic radicals" with special attention to Iran: they must be hated, preparatory to killing them. How stupid are we to allow the same stunt to be pulled on us again?And whose team is iffen on if-en he/she continues to obscure the facts and label those who try to point out the obvious patterns, as "Jew haters?" iffen is not doing Jews any favors, and he/she is certainly not promoting the best interests of the American people.
the best interests of the American people
Got that certifying document yet?
Americans don’t hate Germans and never have. They hate Nazis as well they should.
https://www.c-span.org/video/?322861-1/explaining-hitler-zone-interest
The Amis family has done almost as well as the Sturman family in producing porn, Amis's peculiar kink being setting a love story atop a meadow heaving with Jewish corpses (actually, skeletons -- no, actually, Jewish femurs) against a backdrop of lampshades made of Jewish skin. Charming and oh so believable.
You clearly know little of substance about Kingsley. Prose styling is an art-form and ….well I’d better not say it.
Just to reinforce this point a little further:
Your casual dismissive manner suggests you haven't really studied Shirer, 1245 pages with diligently referenced primary source documentation, including living testimonies, copious diary entries and the official memoranda of most of the top Nazi warlords: Goebbels, Goering, Halder, Ribbentrop, Fritsch, Neurath, Schacht, Rosenberg etc., not to mention the 'thoughts' of some of the valkyrie women led by dear Magda.
So, directly displaying Shirer's writing is far more effective than a paraphrase, and I should like you to prove which portions constitute "may or may not be true" in your risible claim. The 'may not' part, that is. You will require more than a handful of straws to grasp at, for those portions are direct personal diary entries, addended further by official Nazi memoranda. [e.g., there is nothing 'subjective' about Directive 25 on the Belgrade massacre, and only an idiot would claim otherwise]
There are commenters on this board - it's easy to discern - who are fine historians: Incitatus, 5371, Random Observer and Iffen. I thought you might have some good insights, but your obvious proclivities negate the positives.
On a final note, deviled kidneys [w/Worcester sauce] are scrumptious; even better on buttered crumpets with a side of eggs. Beats overpriced boiled starches with tomato paste any day of the week.
Zionist activist and serial LIAR, Sam Shame(less):
Right, right… by reading a bunch of propaganda books & regurgitating it here? tsc, tsc, tsc..
FYI, the Babi Yar story is a fraud, a debunked fraud. Not that you woud know it or accept that of course… not even if a mountain of evidence stood in your face!
Besides being a Zionist activist and a proven liar, Sam is also a good comedian!
He goes:
Buahahaha, good one, Sammy boy!! Your inclusion of iffen & incitatus was particularly amusing!
Why do YOU support open debate on the Holocaust?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OAlBWA2Jvc
Sorry Mom, I was wrong about the Holocaust
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0_BZphQ7Qo
nb. your reliance on Shirer is so earnest, so child-like, so last century. Just the other day a client told me mid-century modern is all the rage.
You are aware, aren't you, that Shirer was on the OSS - CIA payroll to produce propaganda, which included atrocity propaganda?It may well be true that the Germans did whatever it is you claim Shirer said they did.
But because the field has been so completely corrupted by propaganda masquerading as history, one really can't know if it's the real turtle soup or merely the mock.Historian Thomas Fleming has reflected that the first fifty years or so of commentary about an event like WWII is overladen with emotion; it takes at least that long for the emotion to burn off and the necessary cold objectivity to take its place.
Furthermore, as Thomas Mahl observed in "Desperate Deception," many archives are still not open to examination by historians, but also that the gradual opening of some archives, such as limited access to British code-breaking files, has meant that "all of the histories prior to the 1970s and 1980s must be rewritten." Shirer produced his magnum opus -- aka his get-out-of-bankruptcy-opus -- in the mid-1950s iirc. Why, according to professor David Engel in "Understanding the Holocaust," the special character of the holocaust was not spotlighted until after the Eichmann trial in the early 1960s. No doubt you've read Shirer diligently, m'boy; and you've done a fine job of type-and-paste. But while the information may or may not be corrupt, it's certainly out-of-date; yesterday's haggis n neeps.
Solonto to Shama
A better question would be; if he did, would he care?? The answer is clearly ‘NO’.
This is the sort of person, who, with a straight face, tells us that the reason the cowardly idf took a drubbing in South Lebanon, 2006, was because, you see, the idf sissies adhere to such strict ROE!!
That despite the fact that is well documented that they carpet bombed Lebanon to such an extent, that even US military observers were appalled. Methinks the thousands of civilians killed and wounded must have felt otherwise.
Your casual dismissive manner suggests you haven't really studied Shirer, 1245 pages with diligently referenced primary source documentation, including living testimonies, copious diary entries and the official memoranda of most of the top Nazi warlords: Goebbels, Goering, Halder, Ribbentrop, Fritsch, Neurath, Schacht, Rosenberg etc., not to mention the 'thoughts' of some of the valkyrie women led by dear Magda.
So, directly displaying Shirer's writing is far more effective than a paraphrase, and I should like you to prove which portions constitute "may or may not be true" in your risible claim. The 'may not' part, that is. You will require more than a handful of straws to grasp at, for those portions are direct personal diary entries, addended further by official Nazi memoranda. [e.g., there is nothing 'subjective' about Directive 25 on the Belgrade massacre, and only an idiot would claim otherwise]
There are commenters on this board - it's easy to discern - who are fine historians: Incitatus, 5371, Random Observer and Iffen. I thought you might have some good insights, but your obvious proclivities negate the positives.
On a final note, deviled kidneys [w/Worcester sauce] are scrumptious; even better on buttered crumpets with a side of eggs. Beats overpriced boiled starches with tomato paste any day of the week.
I’ve finished Shirer
Sam, after reading Shirer what is your opinion on his presentation of Sonderweg?
From Wiki:
The harshest criticism came from those who disagreed [with Shirer] with the Sonderweg or “Luther to Hitler” thesis.
I remember this discussion from many years ago. I had to look up the name of the premise as I couldn’t remember it.
BTW, I am reading an excellent bio of the original 88 himself, Hitler Ascent by Volker Ullrich.
A fascinating question to which I'm afraid one feels tempted to write rather more expansively than modestly. Yet it is one which has more than merely crossed my mind for a period and which precedes my reading of Shirer, to find much in the persuasions of John Maynard Keynes.
I am only a neophyte reader of history, especially of this period, and my thoughts are restricted to an assiduous reading of Keynes and only very recently, Shirer and a few others. So I claim it not a product of any expertise, only a personal and limited synopsis of my readings.
I shall be traveling for the next 4 hrs, so permit me to get back on this thread in due course.
P.S. I don't recall Shirer directly tackling the notion of 'Sonderweg' in Rise and Fall, but of course there is a fair body of commentary on Luther and Mein Kampf. I am aware of the criticisms leveled at Shirer by Evans, and the counter-criticisms - a common enough occurrence in historical scholarship - but there is also Shirer's honest admiring words of the early years of Nazism's ascendancy as our 'man on the ground'.
This is the sort of person, who, with a straight face, tells us that the reason the cowardly idf took a drubbing in South Lebanon, 2006, was because, you see, the idf sissies adhere to such strict ROE!!
That despite the fact that is well documented that they carpet bombed Lebanon to such an extent, that even US military observers were appalled. Methinks the thousands of civilians killed and wounded must have felt otherwise.
Do I hear the sounds of reptilian hissing?
Forked tongues are typically not associated with cognitive faculties; still, as I enjoy watching snakes behind glass partitions in the zoo, I’ll throw you a little puzzle: it’s easy to claim someone or the other is a CIA/OSS agent etc.., etc. Have you any proof Directive 25, which Adolf called “Operation Punishment”, and which massacred 17000 Belgrade civilians did not occur?
The neo-Nazi Schweinhunden are still sore that the alleged 'Master' Race got royally Master F____ by thems Slavic Untermenschen.
The Schweinhunden make excellent fertilizer for the rich Russian soil when properly chopped up into little chunks of schwein and slightly roasted.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Stalingrad#/media/File:Stalingrad-dead_bodies.jpg
Heil Hitler!
Sieg Heil!
Sue, sue, sue!!!
Sam, after reading Shirer what is your opinion on his presentation of Sonderweg?
From Wiki:
The harshest criticism came from those who disagreed [with Shirer] with the Sonderweg or "Luther to Hitler" thesis.
I remember this discussion from many years ago. I had to look up the name of the premise as I couldn’t remember it.
BTW, I am reading an excellent bio of the original 88 himself, Hitler Ascent by Volker Ullrich.
Hi Iffen,
A fascinating question to which I’m afraid one feels tempted to write rather more expansively than modestly. Yet it is one which has more than merely crossed my mind for a period and which precedes my reading of Shirer, to find much in the persuasions of John Maynard Keynes.
I am only a neophyte reader of history, especially of this period, and my thoughts are restricted to an assiduous reading of Keynes and only very recently, Shirer and a few others. So I claim it not a product of any expertise, only a personal and limited synopsis of my readings.
I shall be traveling for the next 4 hrs, so permit me to get back on this thread in due course.
P.S. I don’t recall Shirer directly tackling the notion of ‘Sonderweg’ in Rise and Fall, but of course there is a fair body of commentary on Luther and Mein Kampf. I am aware of the criticisms leveled at Shirer by Evans, and the counter-criticisms – a common enough occurrence in historical scholarship – but there is also Shirer’s honest admiring words of the early years of Nazism’s ascendancy as our ‘man on the ground’.
Have some sympathy for the reptilian VaginaHund.
The neo-Nazi Schweinhunden are still sore that the alleged ‘Master’ Race got royally Master F____ by thems Slavic Untermenschen.
The Schweinhunden make excellent fertilizer for the rich Russian soil when properly chopped up into little chunks of schwein and slightly roasted.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Stalingrad#/media/File:Stalingrad-dead_bodies.jpg
Heil Hitler!
Sieg Heil!
The German soldiers who died at Stalingrad are not the equivalent of these current day Nazis.
These current day Nazis are not entitled nor qualified to lick their boots.
ava-ry, are you really so pathetic that you must now resort to using the very insults I have coined for you? Tsc, tsc, tsc...
So, besides being a proven serial liar, a hysteric, a Shabbos goy, I must say ava-ry here is an extremely mediocre and dull creature as well, not even creative enough to come up with some name-calling of her own.
It’s also amusing to watch the Zionist Jew, shama, and his disgusting Shabbos goyim blowjobing each other, you guys truly are a waste of space and food.
P.S: Take the opportunity, ava-ry, and, like the miserable Shabbos goy you are, who eats crumbs from the zio table, to thank the Jews & their Hollywood;
I hear that they have finally made an 'armenian genocide' movie! I hear it is sorta second rate & cheesy but you gotta enjoy it bc there probably won’t be another one for quite some time.
Don't forget to thank them, eh?
The neo-Nazi Schweinhunden are still sore that the alleged 'Master' Race got royally Master F____ by thems Slavic Untermenschen.
The Schweinhunden make excellent fertilizer for the rich Russian soil when properly chopped up into little chunks of schwein and slightly roasted.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Stalingrad#/media/File:Stalingrad-dead_bodies.jpg
Heil Hitler!
Sieg Heil!
You go too far.
The German soldiers who died at Stalingrad are not the equivalent of these current day Nazis.
These current day Nazis are not entitled nor qualified to lick their boots.
Not far enough.
The German soldiers, who, quote 'died' in Stalingrad were filthy, genocidal swine who had invaded SU to exterminate Slavs. F___ them.
The Nazi German invaders may or may not be the equivalent of today's neo-Nazis. But the Nazi German invaders had no business in Stalingrad, 1,000s of miles East of Germany.
They killed and murdered ~25 million Soviet citizens.
Pox on the vile neo-Nazi Schweinhunden.
My ethnos, Armenians, sent ~600,000 men from a tiny population base in SU to stop the genocidal Nazi invaders. ~300,000 Armenians were KIA in WW2.
Genocidal Turks had massed an invasion army on the border of Armenia SSR during the epic Battle of Stalingrad. If the Red Army had lost the battle, filthy nomad UygurTürkoğlar Turks were going to invade Armenia SSR, race to Baku and link up with Nazis who would swing South from Stalingrad and take the rich oilfields of Baku.
Armenians would be totally wiped out.
Same as Jews in Europe.
For a Jew, which I take you to be, to defend Nazis is beyond vile.
If the Red Army had not defeated Nazi Germany, the Jews in Europe would be completely exterminated.
Thank God, the filthy Schweinhunden were cut to pork chops in Stalingrad.
The German soldiers who died at Stalingrad are not the equivalent of these current day Nazis.
These current day Nazis are not entitled nor qualified to lick their boots.
{The German soldiers who died at Stalingrad are not the equivalent of these current day Nazis.}
Not far enough.
The German soldiers, who, quote ‘died’ in Stalingrad were filthy, genocidal swine who had invaded SU to exterminate Slavs. F___ them.
The Nazi German invaders may or may not be the equivalent of today’s neo-Nazis. But the Nazi German invaders had no business in Stalingrad, 1,000s of miles East of Germany.
They killed and murdered ~25 million Soviet citizens.
Pox on the vile neo-Nazi Schweinhunden.
My ethnos, Armenians, sent ~600,000 men from a tiny population base in SU to stop the genocidal Nazi invaders. ~300,000 Armenians were KIA in WW2.
Genocidal Turks had massed an invasion army on the border of Armenia SSR during the epic Battle of Stalingrad. If the Red Army had lost the battle, filthy nomad UygurTürkoğlar Turks were going to invade Armenia SSR, race to Baku and link up with Nazis who would swing South from Stalingrad and take the rich oilfields of Baku.
Armenians would be totally wiped out.
Same as Jews in Europe.
For a Jew, which I take you to be, to defend Nazis is beyond vile.
If the Red Army had not defeated Nazi Germany, the Jews in Europe would be completely exterminated.
Thank God, the filthy Schweinhunden were cut to pork chops in Stalingrad.
Soviet citizens - civilians & soldiers - were much more victims of your Stalinist heroes than of N.S Germany: first because, as I have explained in great detail in other posts, Stalin was very much responsible for bringing about the titanic conflict with NS Germany. If you corner a tiger, don't go crying if it rips your arm off.
Secondly, we need to examine how the Stalinist regime treated its own troops and civilians during the war, not to mention b4 and after. It amounted to complete disdain for human life.
Meanwhile, in the real world, here is a small list of what your zionist heroes have been up to, just in regards to Russia:
- Supported Georgia in the 2008 war and were enraged that Russia won. Zionists Max Boot and Charles Krauthammer called for various moves to isolate Russia from the West and from the international economic community.
- have advocated massive US aid and alliances among Eastern European countries.
- They supported the war that resulted in independence of Kosovo from Serbia, an ally of Russia.
- They have supported Chechen independence from Russia.
- NATO membership for Eastern European countries formerly dominated by the USSR, and the aggressive US policy of providing missiles to Poland and the Czech Republic.
- They are fully behind the whole mess in the Ukraine and the sanctions on Russia.
P.S. Given your latest hysterical outbursts, I’ve come to the conclusion you r beyond PMS meds. I fear if you continue down that path you run the risk of being carted off in a straight-jacket by men in white jackets to the loony bin. So sad...
Like all reptiles, L.K. received his baccalaureate from 'institutions' burrowed deep underground, where the "Sun don't shine ", and blimey, does it just show!You are quite right regarding Adolf's bedrock intentions toward Russia. His pact with Stalin had not changed it at all, but merely postponed acting on it. And but briefly. In fact, less than two months after the deal was signed and had been utilised to destroy Poland the Fuehrer instructed the Army that the conquered Polish territory was to be regarded ”as an assembly area for future German operations.” The date was October 18, 1939, and Haider recorded it that day in his diary.Actually Adolf's generals wanted to move directly for Moscow, where the armaments factories lay. But Adolf had other plans. You are spot on when you write "If the Red Army had lost the battle [Stalingrad], filthy nomad UygurTürkoğlar Turks were going to invade Armenia SSR, race to Baku and link up with Nazis who would swing South from Stalingrad and take the rich oilfields of Baku."Anyway getting back to Hitler's intentions, the forked tongue reptile, who may or may not have read Mein Kampf, chooses to remain willfully mendacious or ignorant. You pick. This is what firmly entwined the brains of the Nazi corporal turned warlord re: Russia:P.S. if you notice our intermittent reptile hisses much, but has not been able to come up with a refutation of my little challenge to him re: the civilian massacre of Belgrade in #151.
For a Jew, which I take you to be
WTF, you are so consumed by hatred you can’t even think.
Hahaha, for once, 'iffen', you have got something right!!
{The German soldiers who died at Stalingrad are not the equivalent of these current day Nazis.
These current day Nazis are not entitled nor qualified to lick their boots.}
The Nazi German invaders that were cut down to little bits of pork-chops in Stalingrad actually murdered millions of civilians, including large numbers of your tribe. If they had not been defeated, no Slavs or other Untermenschen would be left alive.
Current day neo-Nazis do nothing more than hallucinate in the blogosphere about the good-old Nazi days, and try to blame everybody else for the crimes of their 'heroes'.
The neo-Nazi Schweinhunden are still sore that the alleged 'Master' Race got royally Master F____ by thems Slavic Untermenschen.
The Schweinhunden make excellent fertilizer for the rich Russian soil when properly chopped up into little chunks of schwein and slightly roasted.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Stalingrad#/media/File:Stalingrad-dead_bodies.jpg
Heil Hitler!
Sieg Heil!
‘VaginaHund?’ Really? Ouch!
ava-ry, are you really so pathetic that you must now resort to using the very insults I have coined for you? Tsc, tsc, tsc…
So, besides being a proven serial liar, a hysteric, a Shabbos goy, I must say ava-ry here is an extremely mediocre and dull creature as well, not even creative enough to come up with some name-calling of her own.
It’s also amusing to watch the Zionist Jew, shama, and his disgusting Shabbos goyim blowjobing each other, you guys truly are a waste of space and food.
P.S: Take the opportunity, ava-ry, and, like the miserable Shabbos goy you are, who eats crumbs from the zio table, to thank the Jews & their Hollywood;
I hear that they have finally made an ‘armenian genocide’ movie! I hear it is sorta second rate & cheesy but you gotta enjoy it bc there probably won’t be another one for quite some time.
Don’t forget to thank them, eh?
Wow: is that best you can do, you pathetic little neo-Nazi.
Typical of the progeny of stupid Brown Shirts.
Nevertheless, we are still waiting for you to visit us in the City of Angels.
Don't forget to wear either your Schweinhund or VaginaHund mask.
Hurry up, Halloween is just around the corner: you will be a hit at all the Halloween parties.
Heil Hitler!
Sieg Heil!
WTF, you are so consumed by hatred you can't even think.
‘WTF, you are so consumed by hatred you can’t even think.’
Hahaha, for once, ‘iffen’, you have got something right!!
Not far enough.
The German soldiers, who, quote 'died' in Stalingrad were filthy, genocidal swine who had invaded SU to exterminate Slavs. F___ them.
The Nazi German invaders may or may not be the equivalent of today's neo-Nazis. But the Nazi German invaders had no business in Stalingrad, 1,000s of miles East of Germany.
They killed and murdered ~25 million Soviet citizens.
Pox on the vile neo-Nazi Schweinhunden.
My ethnos, Armenians, sent ~600,000 men from a tiny population base in SU to stop the genocidal Nazi invaders. ~300,000 Armenians were KIA in WW2.
Genocidal Turks had massed an invasion army on the border of Armenia SSR during the epic Battle of Stalingrad. If the Red Army had lost the battle, filthy nomad UygurTürkoğlar Turks were going to invade Armenia SSR, race to Baku and link up with Nazis who would swing South from Stalingrad and take the rich oilfields of Baku.
Armenians would be totally wiped out.
Same as Jews in Europe.
For a Jew, which I take you to be, to defend Nazis is beyond vile.
If the Red Army had not defeated Nazi Germany, the Jews in Europe would be completely exterminated.
Thank God, the filthy Schweinhunden were cut to pork chops in Stalingrad.
Well, your entire silly post belongs to the fiction category.
Soviet citizens – civilians & soldiers – were much more victims of your Stalinist heroes than of N.S Germany: first because, as I have explained in great detail in other posts, Stalin was very much responsible for bringing about the titanic conflict with NS Germany. If you corner a tiger, don’t go crying if it rips your arm off.
Secondly, we need to examine how the Stalinist regime treated its own troops and civilians during the war, not to mention b4 and after. It amounted to complete disdain for human life.
Meanwhile, in the real world, here is a small list of what your zionist heroes have been up to, just in regards to Russia:
- Supported Georgia in the 2008 war and were enraged that Russia won. Zionists Max Boot and Charles Krauthammer called for various moves to isolate Russia from the West and from the international economic community.
- have advocated massive US aid and alliances among Eastern European countries.
- They supported the war that resulted in independence of Kosovo from Serbia, an ally of Russia.
- They have supported Chechen independence from Russia.
- NATO membership for Eastern European countries formerly dominated by the USSR, and the aggressive US policy of providing missiles to Poland and the Czech Republic.
- They are fully behind the whole mess in the Ukraine and the sanctions on Russia.
P.S. Given your latest hysterical outbursts, I’ve come to the conclusion you r beyond PMS meds. I fear if you continue down that path you run the risk of being carted off in a straight-jacket by men in white jackets to the loony bin. So sad…
Is that normal for a VaginaHund ?
Shouldn't you see your vet, like very soon?
{Stalin was very much responsible for bringing about the titanic conflict with NS Germany. }
You wish: that neo-Nazi revisionism has been thoroughly debunked.
Try something else.
{If you corner a tiger, don’t go crying if it rips your arm off.}
Is that what you call it you stupid period-addled VaginaHund?
-Red Army troops raising the red banner over the alleged '1000 year' Reichstag.
-All the Nazi coward leaders committing suicide, before they could be hanged.
-Untermenschen pissing on the ashes of the your Führer.
-Desperate Nazi Losers sending German children and old men to take on T-34s rolling into Berlin.
............
Is that what you call a supposed 'tiger'?
More like a little pussycat: you know, a VaginaHund.
Heil Hitler!
Sieg Heil!
Oh, almost forgot. When you come to LA, make sure your jackboots are cleaned an polished. But don't wear your swastika armband: lots of Jews in the greater Los Angeles area. You never know; they might take offense and do something crazy. We want you safe and sound during your visit in our City of Angles.
ava-ry, are you really so pathetic that you must now resort to using the very insults I have coined for you? Tsc, tsc, tsc...
So, besides being a proven serial liar, a hysteric, a Shabbos goy, I must say ava-ry here is an extremely mediocre and dull creature as well, not even creative enough to come up with some name-calling of her own.
It’s also amusing to watch the Zionist Jew, shama, and his disgusting Shabbos goyim blowjobing each other, you guys truly are a waste of space and food.
P.S: Take the opportunity, ava-ry, and, like the miserable Shabbos goy you are, who eats crumbs from the zio table, to thank the Jews & their Hollywood;
I hear that they have finally made an 'armenian genocide' movie! I hear it is sorta second rate & cheesy but you gotta enjoy it bc there probably won’t be another one for quite some time.
Don't forget to thank them, eh?
‘ava-ry’
Wow: is that best you can do, you pathetic little neo-Nazi.
Typical of the progeny of stupid Brown Shirts.
Nevertheless, we are still waiting for you to visit us in the City of Angels.
Don’t forget to wear either your Schweinhund or VaginaHund mask.
Hurry up, Halloween is just around the corner: you will be a hit at all the Halloween parties.
Heil Hitler!
Sieg Heil!
Soviet citizens - civilians & soldiers - were much more victims of your Stalinist heroes than of N.S Germany: first because, as I have explained in great detail in other posts, Stalin was very much responsible for bringing about the titanic conflict with NS Germany. If you corner a tiger, don't go crying if it rips your arm off.
Secondly, we need to examine how the Stalinist regime treated its own troops and civilians during the war, not to mention b4 and after. It amounted to complete disdain for human life.
Meanwhile, in the real world, here is a small list of what your zionist heroes have been up to, just in regards to Russia:
- Supported Georgia in the 2008 war and were enraged that Russia won. Zionists Max Boot and Charles Krauthammer called for various moves to isolate Russia from the West and from the international economic community.
- have advocated massive US aid and alliances among Eastern European countries.
- They supported the war that resulted in independence of Kosovo from Serbia, an ally of Russia.
- They have supported Chechen independence from Russia.
- NATO membership for Eastern European countries formerly dominated by the USSR, and the aggressive US policy of providing missiles to Poland and the Czech Republic.
- They are fully behind the whole mess in the Ukraine and the sanctions on Russia.
P.S. Given your latest hysterical outbursts, I’ve come to the conclusion you r beyond PMS meds. I fear if you continue down that path you run the risk of being carted off in a straight-jacket by men in white jackets to the loony bin. So sad...
Another one of VaginaHund’s irrational hallucinations: you seem to be having your periods every couple of days.
Is that normal for a VaginaHund ?
Shouldn’t you see your vet, like very soon?
{Stalin was very much responsible for bringing about the titanic conflict with NS Germany. }
You wish: that neo-Nazi revisionism has been thoroughly debunked.
Try something else.
{If you corner a tiger, don’t go crying if it rips your arm off.}
Is that what you call it you stupid period-addled VaginaHund?
-Red Army troops raising the red banner over the alleged ’1000 year’ Reichstag.
-All the Nazi coward leaders committing suicide, before they could be hanged.
-Untermenschen pissing on the ashes of the your Führer.
-Desperate Nazi Losers sending German children and old men to take on T-34s rolling into Berlin.
…………
Is that what you call a supposed ‘tiger’?
More like a little pussycat: you know, a VaginaHund.
Heil Hitler!
Sieg Heil!
Oh, almost forgot. When you come to LA, make sure your jackboots are cleaned an polished. But don’t wear your swastika armband: lots of Jews in the greater Los Angeles area. You never know; they might take offense and do something crazy. We want you safe and sound during your visit in our City of Angles.
WTF, you are so consumed by hatred you can't even think.
WTF back at you.
{The German soldiers who died at Stalingrad are not the equivalent of these current day Nazis.
These current day Nazis are not entitled nor qualified to lick their boots.}
The Nazi German invaders that were cut down to little bits of pork-chops in Stalingrad actually murdered millions of civilians, including large numbers of your tribe. If they had not been defeated, no Slavs or other Untermenschen would be left alive.
Current day neo-Nazis do nothing more than hallucinate in the blogosphere about the good-old Nazi days, and try to blame everybody else for the crimes of their ‘heroes’.
Not far enough.
The German soldiers, who, quote 'died' in Stalingrad were filthy, genocidal swine who had invaded SU to exterminate Slavs. F___ them.
The Nazi German invaders may or may not be the equivalent of today's neo-Nazis. But the Nazi German invaders had no business in Stalingrad, 1,000s of miles East of Germany.
They killed and murdered ~25 million Soviet citizens.
Pox on the vile neo-Nazi Schweinhunden.
My ethnos, Armenians, sent ~600,000 men from a tiny population base in SU to stop the genocidal Nazi invaders. ~300,000 Armenians were KIA in WW2.
Genocidal Turks had massed an invasion army on the border of Armenia SSR during the epic Battle of Stalingrad. If the Red Army had lost the battle, filthy nomad UygurTürkoğlar Turks were going to invade Armenia SSR, race to Baku and link up with Nazis who would swing South from Stalingrad and take the rich oilfields of Baku.
Armenians would be totally wiped out.
Same as Jews in Europe.
For a Jew, which I take you to be, to defend Nazis is beyond vile.
If the Red Army had not defeated Nazi Germany, the Jews in Europe would be completely exterminated.
Thank God, the filthy Schweinhunden were cut to pork chops in Stalingrad.
Avery,
Like all reptiles, L.K. received his baccalaureate from ‘institutions’ burrowed deep underground, where the “Sun don’t shine “, and blimey, does it just show!
You are quite right regarding Adolf’s bedrock intentions toward Russia. His pact with Stalin had not changed it at all, but merely postponed acting on it. And but briefly. In fact, less than two months after the deal was signed and had been utilised to destroy Poland the Fuehrer instructed the Army that the conquered Polish territory was to be regarded ”as an assembly area for future German operations.” The date was October 18, 1939, and Haider recorded it that day in his diary.
Actually Adolf’s generals wanted to move directly for Moscow, where the armaments factories lay. But Adolf had other plans. You are spot on when you write “If the Red Army had lost the battle [Stalingrad], filthy nomad UygurTürkoğlar Turks were going to invade Armenia SSR, race to Baku and link up with Nazis who would swing South from Stalingrad and take the rich oilfields of Baku.”
Anyway getting back to Hitler’s intentions, the forked tongue reptile, who may or may not have read Mein Kampf, chooses to remain willfully mendacious or ignorant. You pick. This is what firmly entwined the brains of the Nazi corporal turned warlord re: Russia:
P.S. if you notice our intermittent reptile hisses much, but has not been able to come up with a refutation of my little challenge to him re: the civilian massacre of Belgrade in #151.
Here's where my confusion comes in... how could one oppose nationalism, yesterday... but be for it, today?
Like all reptiles, L.K. received his baccalaureate from 'institutions' burrowed deep underground, where the "Sun don't shine ", and blimey, does it just show!You are quite right regarding Adolf's bedrock intentions toward Russia. His pact with Stalin had not changed it at all, but merely postponed acting on it. And but briefly. In fact, less than two months after the deal was signed and had been utilised to destroy Poland the Fuehrer instructed the Army that the conquered Polish territory was to be regarded ”as an assembly area for future German operations.” The date was October 18, 1939, and Haider recorded it that day in his diary.Actually Adolf's generals wanted to move directly for Moscow, where the armaments factories lay. But Adolf had other plans. You are spot on when you write "If the Red Army had lost the battle [Stalingrad], filthy nomad UygurTürkoğlar Turks were going to invade Armenia SSR, race to Baku and link up with Nazis who would swing South from Stalingrad and take the rich oilfields of Baku."Anyway getting back to Hitler's intentions, the forked tongue reptile, who may or may not have read Mein Kampf, chooses to remain willfully mendacious or ignorant. You pick. This is what firmly entwined the brains of the Nazi corporal turned warlord re: Russia:P.S. if you notice our intermittent reptile hisses much, but has not been able to come up with a refutation of my little challenge to him re: the civilian massacre of Belgrade in #151.
Hey, Sam. Since you’re quoting AH, I decided to read his “magnum opus,” myself. I’ve just finished wrapping up Ch. 2. It ends with this passage:
While I’ve just started reading the book, it seems to me that in his mind the German nation was locked in a life and death struggle for its future, between two competing ideologies, Bolshevism and Nationalism. If the Bolshevik ideology were to prevail, it would mean the end of his beloved German state. Kind of like the struggle Israelis find themselves in, today- between two competing ideologies, Zionism and Universalism (e.g., ethnocracies vs. liberal democratic gov’ts).
Here’s where my confusion comes in… how could one oppose nationalism, yesterday… but be for it, today?
I quoted that portion to reveal Hitler's ulterior motives for Russia all along [did you notice?], in fact his motives for all 'untermenschen'. That passage, as well as others in Mein Kampf, his various Reichstag speeches, Table Talk gems, official Directives etc, taken together with the subsequent ravages he visited upon Europe: in Austria, Scandinavia, Sudetenland, Poland, France, Yugoslavia, Greece, Russia - and which resulted in 55 million deaths - should not have surprised anyone, least of all the British political class starting with Chamberlain. So this notion that Hitler was double-crossed by Russia, which a certain class of reptilian worms try to peddle, is in a word, reptilian.
On the question of Nationalism - noting your rather reverential tone for 'his beloved Germany' - I should like to hear your fuller views. Bare your chest, I'm sure you'll overcome your confusion.
My own thoughts? Quite straightforward really. I've got nothing against Nationalism per se. It can be quite useful and effective in the hands of a wise leadership which recognises the yearnings of it's polity in a positive manner, and one which does not wage war against manifestly superior powers causing the death of 55 million. I think Iffen had summed it up nicely with down home wisdom: 'If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on your porch'.
Here's where my confusion comes in... how could one oppose nationalism, yesterday... but be for it, today?
It’s good to know that you’ve started reading it, and do let me know when completed, so that we might have a more wholistic discussion.
I quoted that portion to reveal Hitler’s ulterior motives for Russia all along [did you notice?], in fact his motives for all ‘untermenschen‘. That passage, as well as others in Mein Kampf, his various Reichstag speeches, Table Talk gems, official Directives etc, taken together with the subsequent ravages he visited upon Europe: in Austria, Scandinavia, Sudetenland, Poland, France, Yugoslavia, Greece, Russia – and which resulted in 55 million deaths – should not have surprised anyone, least of all the British political class starting with Chamberlain. So this notion that Hitler was double-crossed by Russia, which a certain class of reptilian worms try to peddle, is in a word, reptilian.
On the question of Nationalism – noting your rather reverential tone for ‘his beloved Germany’ – I should like to hear your fuller views. Bare your chest, I’m sure you’ll overcome your confusion.
My own thoughts? Quite straightforward really. I’ve got nothing against Nationalism per se. It can be quite useful and effective in the hands of a wise leadership which recognises the yearnings of it’s polity in a positive manner, and one which does not wage war against manifestly superior powers causing the death of 55 million. I think Iffen had summed it up nicely with down home wisdom: ‘If you can’t run with the big dogs, stay on your porch’.
What about the kind of nationalism that says Germany for the Germans… or Israel for the Jews? Do you have anything against this kind of nationalism?
What kind of German state did you mean?
I guess what I'm driving at, Sam, is this... if you and other Zionists are prepared to embrace the idea that Israel has a right to exist as a Jewish state, for the Jewish people, why all the hostility to the idea that Germany had a right to exist as a German state, for the German people?
I think it was Prof. Michael Neumann who distinguished between the two kinds of nationalism: ethnic and civic:
The kind of German state that is modeled on Israel’s – i.e., ethnic nationalism.
I guess what I’m driving at, Sam, is this… if you and other Zionists are prepared to embrace the idea that Israel has a right to exist as a Jewish state, for the Jewish people, why all the hostility to the idea that Germany had a right to exist as a German state, for the German people?
I think it was Prof. Michael Neumann who distinguished between the two kinds of nationalism: ethnic and civic:
I have no hostility toward the right of the Germans to an ethno nation state, then or now.
He had that already when he was appointed Chancellor. The hostility comes from the slaughter of millions that ensued after that point. He could have stopped with the denial of citizenship for the Jews and their exclusion from all areas of finance, trade, academia, etc. Nation states have existed, and still do, with 2nd class citizens. The Jews were used to being expelled, most would have eventually emigrated. He didn't have to burn the women and children in order to have a German nation state and there is no way around this point. If you try to go around this point you are a current year Nazi.
I guess what I'm driving at, Sam, is this... if you and other Zionists are prepared to embrace the idea that Israel has a right to exist as a Jewish state, for the Jewish people, why all the hostility to the idea that Germany had a right to exist as a German state, for the German people?
I think it was Prof. Michael Neumann who distinguished between the two kinds of nationalism: ethnic and civic:
Oh, I almost missed this important footnote included at the end of Prof. Neumann’s article:
Look forward to your response, Sam.
I guess what I'm driving at, Sam, is this... if you and other Zionists are prepared to embrace the idea that Israel has a right to exist as a Jewish state, for the Jewish people, why all the hostility to the idea that Germany had a right to exist as a German state, for the German people?
I think it was Prof. Michael Neumann who distinguished between the two kinds of nationalism: ethnic and civic:
why all the hostility to the idea that Germany had a right to exist as a German state, for the German people
I have no hostility toward the right of the Germans to an ethno nation state, then or now.
He had that already when he was appointed Chancellor. The hostility comes from the slaughter of millions that ensued after that point. He could have stopped with the denial of citizenship for the Jews and their exclusion from all areas of finance, trade, academia, etc. Nation states have existed, and still do, with 2nd class citizens. The Jews were used to being expelled, most would have eventually emigrated. He didn’t have to burn the women and children in order to have a German nation state and there is no way around this point. If you try to go around this point you are a current year Nazi.
I have no hostility toward the right of the Germans to an ethno nation state, then or now.
He had that already when he was appointed Chancellor. The hostility comes from the slaughter of millions that ensued after that point. He could have stopped with the denial of citizenship for the Jews and their exclusion from all areas of finance, trade, academia, etc. Nation states have existed, and still do, with 2nd class citizens. The Jews were used to being expelled, most would have eventually emigrated. He didn't have to burn the women and children in order to have a German nation state and there is no way around this point. If you try to go around this point you are a current year Nazi.
Good to know, iffen.
I’m not the one trying to go around that point. I just struggle with people who can’t see that that same point applies to how the Zionist state is treating it’s non-Jewish people:
So, iffen, why aren’t those who try and go around this point current year Nazis?
So, iffen, why aren’t those who try and go around this point current year Nazis?
They are not burning the Pals in ovens. They are pushing them aside and denying them the right to fully participate in Israeli civil society. I get the impression that some of the Israeli right wing nuts would fire up the ovens for the Pals.
Many people, myself, and as best as I can tell, Sam and some others, do not defend the Israelis and their mistreatment of the Pals.
What the Israelis are doing is normal ethno state territorial stuff. Hitler could have done the same thing. He could have expelled non-Germans. He could have seized the Germanic speaking territories not in Germany proper and expelled the non-Germanic speakers. He didn’t do that. He burned the women and children in ovens.
I guess this qualifies as normal in your books, since they're not burning them in ovens:So gradual ethnic cleansing by constantly "mowing the lawn" every few years is ok, then - i.e., normal ethno state territorial stuff. Not anything like the ethnic cleansing of the Nazis. Is that the point you're trying to make, iffen?
They are not burning the Pals in ovens. They are pushing them aside and denying them the right to fully participate in Israeli civil society. I get the impression that some of the Israeli right wing nuts would fire up the ovens for the Pals.
Many people, myself, and as best as I can tell, Sam and some others, do not defend the Israelis and their mistreatment of the Pals.
What the Israelis are doing is normal ethno state territorial stuff. Hitler could have done the same thing. He could have expelled non-Germans. He could have seized the Germanic speaking territories not in Germany proper and expelled the non-Germanic speakers. He didn't do that. He burned the women and children in ovens.
Interesting picture you’re painting there, iffen… just a little pushing and denying, but no burning – i.e., normal stuff?
I guess this qualifies as normal in your books, since they’re not burning them in ovens:
So gradual ethnic cleansing by constantly “mowing the lawn” every few years is ok, then – i.e., normal ethno state territorial stuff. Not anything like the ethnic cleansing of the Nazis. Is that the point you’re trying to make, iffen?
I guess this qualifies as normal in your books, since they're not burning them in ovens:So gradual ethnic cleansing by constantly "mowing the lawn" every few years is ok, then - i.e., normal ethno state territorial stuff. Not anything like the ethnic cleansing of the Nazis. Is that the point you're trying to make, iffen?
And I would be remiss if I neglected to describe the backdrop against which these ugly episodes occur:
normal ethno state territorial stuff
Yes, most people can tell the diffence between normal territorial conflict and genocide, but you have to want to tell the difference.
Compare Israel to any of the other states created by the Great Powers at the end of WWII and see what you find.
The only people who want to compare Israel to Nazi Germany are current year Nazis and that is to try and excuse Hitler’s burning of women and children in the ovens.
You can cut and paste all that you want. You may fool yourself and others, but I know what you are doing.
What about a leading figure in Israeli society, Maj. Gen. Yair Golan, deputy chief of staff of the IDF? Is he a current year Nazi for comparing the Jewish State to Nazi-era Germany:Re your comment:Again, I offer original sources to accommodate your previous comment:
Yes, most people can tell the diffence between normal territorial conflict and genocide, but you have to want to tell the difference.
Compare Israel to any of the other states created by the Great Powers at the end of WWII and see what you find.
The only people who want to compare Israel to Nazi Germany are current year Nazis and that is to try and excuse Hitler's burning of women and children in the ovens.
You can cut and paste all that you want. You may fool yourself and others, but I know what you are doing.
The only people, iffen? Weren’t you the one who once chided me about misusing terms such as all, many, few, none?
What about a leading figure in Israeli society, Maj. Gen. Yair Golan, deputy chief of staff of the IDF? Is he a current year Nazi for comparing the Jewish State to Nazi-era Germany:
Re your comment:
Again, I offer original sources to accommodate your previous comment:
Yes, most people can tell the diffence between normal territorial conflict and genocide, but you have to want to tell the difference.
Compare Israel to any of the other states created by the Great Powers at the end of WWII and see what you find.
The only people who want to compare Israel to Nazi Germany are current year Nazis and that is to try and excuse Hitler's burning of women and children in the ovens.
You can cut and paste all that you want. You may fool yourself and others, but I know what you are doing.
I agree. Most people recognize that placing an entire population on a near starvation diet and shelling that same population, who are essentially defenseless, every few years is not something they consider to be normal territorial conflict… like the territorial disputes between India and Pakistan. But, as you say, you have to want to tell the difference.
What about a leading figure in Israeli society, Maj. Gen. Yair Golan, deputy chief of staff of the IDF? Is he a current year Nazi for comparing the Jewish State to Nazi-era Germany:Re your comment:Again, I offer original sources to accommodate your previous comment:
I really care not a whit for those “original” sources when they spread disinformation.
http://www.jpost.com/Diplomacy-and-Politics/Britains-iObserveri-issues-correction-Israel-did-not-use-chemical-weapons-In-Gaza-325529
According to your article, what the Israelis had objected to was not that the UK publication accused them of using WP. No, what they objected to was that they had "equated [Israel's] use of white phosphorous with Assad's chemical arms use." It's right there in the final paragraph of your comment. Take a closer look.
But, just to be on the safe side, I searched online to see if HRW was forced to retract the conclusions of their lengthy (71 page) report, but couldn't find any evidence of that. Perhaps you may have better luck doing so.
You will let us know if you do, Sam, won't you?
Oh, btw here is a link to HRW's report, if you'd like to carefully read its contents.
https://www.hrw.org/report/2009/03/25/rain-fire/israels-unlawful-use-white-phosphorus-gaza
What about a leading figure in Israeli society, Maj. Gen. Yair Golan, deputy chief of staff of the IDF? Is he a current year Nazi for comparing the Jewish State to Nazi-era Germany:Re your comment:Again, I offer original sources to accommodate your previous comment:
Yair Golan is an honourable man, if somewhat excessively scrupulous. There are many such in the IDF. I had commented a few months back that changes are afoot principally on account of the IDF’s leadership systematically opposing Netanyahu. This trend needs to be supported, and less disinformation from Pallywood ought to help as well. Palestinians should adopt an attitude similar to the Druzim – i.e. pledge loyalty to the state and assimilate in the sense of adopting Israeli culture, which is for all functional purposes, Western. Some of that is already happening and I hope it continues. Those that do not wish it, are free to apply for emigration to Arab countries of their choice, but not to Europe or the U.S.
My position is the following: Palestinians living in WB should be given citizenship or help [financial] to move to other Arab countries. No such offer needs to be extended to Gazans. Fact of the matter is many Arabs including Gazans wish to emigrate to Israel. This cannot be allowed for obvious demographic/living territory limitations. Israel is working out a wider deal with Egypt regarding Gaza and it will become clearer in the months ahead.
Speaking of disinformation, Sam, you should read more carefully the contents of the articles you reference.
According to your article, what the Israelis had objected to was not that the UK publication accused them of using WP. No, what they objected to was that they had “equated [Israel's] use of white phosphorous with Assad’s chemical arms use.” It’s right there in the final paragraph of your comment. Take a closer look.
But, just to be on the safe side, I searched online to see if HRW was forced to retract the conclusions of their lengthy (71 page) report, but couldn’t find any evidence of that. Perhaps you may have better luck doing so.
You will let us know if you do, Sam, won’t you?
Oh, btw here is a link to HRW’s report, if you’d like to carefully read its contents.
https://www.hrw.org/report/2009/03/25/rain-fire/israels-unlawful-use-white-phosphorus-gaza
Interesting position, Sam. Just a few follow-up questions:
Are you suggesting that Pals should pledge loyalty to the Jewish state of Israel or to the state of Israel? Very important distinction, as you know.
Not sure I understand this requirement.
Why treat Gazans differently from WB Pals? Don’t both have equal status as refugees from historic Palestine?
To the modern state of Israel, the body of laws of which are based entirely on western/U.K. common law principles. Halachic laws only apply to religious jews in the restricted sphere of their religious lives.
You must know at the moment no Arab state, most importantly not Jordan, Egypt, Gulfs, Saudi wish to have anything to do with dealing with an incipient independent Palestinian entity; one which would be the meeting and breeding grounds for new terrorist groups with very high potential to sow increasing discord, angst and belligerence in their own domestic populations. This is the reality in the ME. The Palestinian leadership is corrupt to the core, living in style in Ramallah, Beirut, Paris and elsewhere; haven't any talent nor yearning for nation-state building, their lives solely organised for victimhood mining. My visit earlier this year opened my eyes to another reality, a smaller microcosm of the social issues: thousands of unqualified, poorly prepared, WB Pals and Israeli Arabs are being admitted to Israeli Universities where they expect and are afforded preferential treatment very much in the model of U.S. blacks. This is a looming disaster for the obvious reasons.
My attitude is a practical one. Gazans got their state, but it is a deeply flawed one which needs to be subsumed within a larger, successful nation, viz. Egypt.
Disinformation because it is being peddled as “use of chemical weapons”. There were two instances of use, as smokescreens, a legal instrument in war, but to read your boldfaced entries, or to look at various “pictures” of babies covered in phosphorous, are nothing other than crude attempts at deceitful propaganda.
Human rights watch is not a credible source, sorry. They are a propaganda arm of various international “victim” groups.
Are you suggesting that Pals should pledge loyalty to the Jewish state of Israel or to the state of Israel? Very important distinction, as you know.
To the modern state of Israel, the body of laws of which are based entirely on western/U.K. common law principles. Halachic laws only apply to religious jews in the restricted sphere of their religious lives.
You must know at the moment no Arab state, most importantly not Jordan, Egypt, Gulfs, Saudi wish to have anything to do with dealing with an incipient independent Palestinian entity; one which would be the meeting and breeding grounds for new terrorist groups with very high potential to sow increasing discord, angst and belligerence in their own domestic populations. This is the reality in the ME. The Palestinian leadership is corrupt to the core, living in style in Ramallah, Beirut, Paris and elsewhere; haven’t any talent nor yearning for nation-state building, their lives solely organised for victimhood mining. My visit earlier this year opened my eyes to another reality, a smaller microcosm of the social issues: thousands of unqualified, poorly prepared, WB Pals and Israeli Arabs are being admitted to Israeli Universities where they expect and are afforded preferential treatment very much in the model of U.S. blacks. This is a looming disaster for the obvious reasons.
My attitude is a practical one. Gazans got their state, but it is a deeply flawed one which needs to be subsumed within a larger, successful nation, viz. Egypt.
To the modern state of Israel, the body of laws of which are based entirely on western/U.K. common law principles. Halachic laws only apply to religious jews in the restricted sphere of their religious lives.
You must know at the moment no Arab state, most importantly not Jordan, Egypt, Gulfs, Saudi wish to have anything to do with dealing with an incipient independent Palestinian entity; one which would be the meeting and breeding grounds for new terrorist groups with very high potential to sow increasing discord, angst and belligerence in their own domestic populations. This is the reality in the ME. The Palestinian leadership is corrupt to the core, living in style in Ramallah, Beirut, Paris and elsewhere; haven't any talent nor yearning for nation-state building, their lives solely organised for victimhood mining. My visit earlier this year opened my eyes to another reality, a smaller microcosm of the social issues: thousands of unqualified, poorly prepared, WB Pals and Israeli Arabs are being admitted to Israeli Universities where they expect and are afforded preferential treatment very much in the model of U.S. blacks. This is a looming disaster for the obvious reasons.
My attitude is a practical one. Gazans got their state, but it is a deeply flawed one which needs to be subsumed within a larger, successful nation, viz. Egypt.
I’ll say no more on this issue for the time being. Thx.
Sam, here is the summary section of HRW’s 71-page report:
With respect to:
Are you suggesting that Kenneth Roth is a self-hating Jew, Sam:
I guess the community would like to do the Kenneth Roth what they did to Judge Goldstone:
To the modern state of Israel, the body of laws of which are based entirely on western/U.K. common law principles. Halachic laws only apply to religious jews in the restricted sphere of their religious lives.
You must know at the moment no Arab state, most importantly not Jordan, Egypt, Gulfs, Saudi wish to have anything to do with dealing with an incipient independent Palestinian entity; one which would be the meeting and breeding grounds for new terrorist groups with very high potential to sow increasing discord, angst and belligerence in their own domestic populations. This is the reality in the ME. The Palestinian leadership is corrupt to the core, living in style in Ramallah, Beirut, Paris and elsewhere; haven't any talent nor yearning for nation-state building, their lives solely organised for victimhood mining. My visit earlier this year opened my eyes to another reality, a smaller microcosm of the social issues: thousands of unqualified, poorly prepared, WB Pals and Israeli Arabs are being admitted to Israeli Universities where they expect and are afforded preferential treatment very much in the model of U.S. blacks. This is a looming disaster for the obvious reasons.
My attitude is a practical one. Gazans got their state, but it is a deeply flawed one which needs to be subsumed within a larger, successful nation, viz. Egypt.
I know this, Sam. These Arab countries, all members of the Arab League, endorsed in 2002 and re-endorsed in 2007 The Arab Peace Initiative, a proposal for an end to the Arab–Israeli conflict .
You call an open-air prison “a state,” Sam?
Why not just relocate them to Madagascar, Sam?