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Israel's $100 Million Gamble
The Lobby doubles down on its propaganda war
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President Barack Obama’s agreement with Iran to establish a strict inspection regime over its nuclear program is good for everyone. For the U.S. and its friends in the region, it eliminates the likelihood of a nuclear arms race in the Middle East, a competition that would inevitably involve Washington and escalate. For Iran, it will end the punishment of the Iranian people through sanctions, it has been welcomed by reformers in that country and it could lead to an easing up and normalizing of the current regime. Even Israel, which is crying wolf, benefits from an Iranian government that has had most of its tools for creating a nuclear weapon taken away or placed under strict control. It allows Israel to remain the only nuclear weapon armed power in the Middle East, which, from Tel Aviv’s perspective, must be regarded as desirable. And Israel also will also be receiving a windfall of new U.S. taxpayer provided weaponry as well as the release of convicted spy Jonathan Pollard, whom many Israelis regard as a hero.

A majority of American Jews supports congressional approval of the agreement, a larger percentage than for Americans overall, even though that view is not shared by many Jewish organizations. So Israel’s desire to upend the arrangement must be based on something else, and that something is almost certainly what Iran represents as a regional power. Iran has more than ten times the Israeli population, is physically nearly seventy-four times larger, has abundant oil resources and a young and highly educated workforce. It is geographically well situated on both the Persian Gulf and Caspian Sea with borders on Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Armenia, Azerbaijan Turkmenistan and Turkey. Israel has never been seriously bothered by the potential of an Iranian nuke, which has been little more than a pretext. It has been concerned over Iran becoming an unfriendly regional superpower, similar to Turkey. Its response to that threat has been to align United States policy with its own in an attempt to convert Iran into a perpetual enemy. Now that alignment is broken and Israel (or to be more precise its Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu) is completely losing it, pulling out all the stops to break the deal.

Israel’s Lobby in the United States has declared war and has mobilized behind the effort, to include its assets in congress and the media. On the day when the agreement was announced, CBS evening news played a short recorded clip of Obama’s announcement but then followed it with a much longer live interview with Netanyahu. Israel’s Ambassador to the United States Ron Dermer has been observed frantically visiting Capitol Hill congressional offices and there are reports that a number of Israeli government officials and politicians are on their way to Washington to personally lobby at all levels of the federal government. It is even rumored that Netanyahu himself might make a visit just before the crucial vote. The main talking point for all the Israeli officials is that the agreement will guarantee Iran’s eventually obtaining a nuclear weapon, which has been Netanyahu’s frequently repeated refrain.

Other arguments being made are predictable, stressing Iran’s destabilization of the region, its human rights record and its support of “terrorists.” An Israeli think tank funded by Las Vegas casino magnate Sheldon Adelson is even citing allegations that Iran tried to assassinate the Saudi Ambassador to Washington, a claim that has long been discredited.

Many other criticisms of Iran are largely being improvised and expanded as they go along to include the claim that Iranians are liars and cannot be trusted. Many of the arguments are being replayed by friends in the media. The intent of the sustained barrage is to influence Congress directly while creating a groundswell of popular opinion opposed to the agreement that will eventually convince those sitting on the fence and translate into a veto proof vote against Obama in Congress. With the GOP commanding a majority in both houses, the numbers suggest that even if each Republican senator or congressman votes “no” a considerable number of Democrats must do likewise. Many are under intense pressure and are wavering, meaning that every single vote will be important.

An unprecedented amount of money is being raised to fund the effort. The Jerusalem Post is reporting that the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) Executive Director Harold Kohr has advised all of its more than 150 employees to cancel their summer vacation plans as everyone has to be on hand to fight against the Iran agreement. Martha’s Vineyard is believed to be in recession as a result.

The Washington Post is reporting that AIPAC alone is going to spend between $20 and $40 million on television, radio and newspaper ads plus direct lobbying. It has prepared phone scripts for its tens of thousands of activist supporters to use in calling the media and congressmen. The war chest will be funneled through a new alphabet soup organization that is being set up for the purpose, the Citizens for a Nuclear Free Iran, which has former Senator Joe Lieberman on its advisory committee. TV ads are already appearing in the Washington area and there has been a “Stop Iran” rally in New York City. The television ads carefully and deliberately do not mention Israel at all and seek to make a case that Iran is a danger to the United States.

Citizens for a Nuclear Free Iran joins other organizations active in the effort, to include United Against Nuclear Iran, the Emergency Committee for Israel, Christians United for Israel, the Zionist Organization of America, the Republican Jewish Coalition with its 40,000 members, the Israel Project, Jewish Federations in Boston and Miami, the Anti-Defamation League, the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, the American Enterprise Institute, the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies, the Hudson Institute, the McCain Institute and Taglit-Birthright Israel, each of which will have its own budget and targeting. It is not inconceivable that more than $100 million could be spent to derail the agreement, but bear in mind that that is mere chump change to Sheldon Adelson, who is likely funding much of the effort.

The Jewish American media is also speculating regarding an apparent AIPAC plan to up the ante by directly targeting some congressmen who support the president, making clear that it will seek to unseat them in 2016. They are reportedly calling it the “doomsday weapon.” It remains to be seen if voters would be swayed by a campaign based on Israeli interests directed against mostly Democratic congressmen in districts where there might be few Jewish or evangelical voters, but the leak of the plan in the media is most likely a ploy to intimidate some congressmen who have contested seats and who are hesitating regarding how they will vote.

Against all that pressure, the White House will be busy making its case, but beyond that there is little organized opposition to the enormous pro-Israel lobbying effort that will be taking place. The National Iranian American Council (NIAC) will no doubt do its best by placing some ads and do its own face-to-face lobbying, but it will be hugely outspent by the pro-Israel billionaires and will be invisible when confronted by the tremendous access the Lobby enjoys to the media and Congress.

Now consider for a moment what is happening here: the de facto and de jure agents of a foreign government are actively and openly lobbying and propagandizing to overturn an agreement entered into by the President of the United States. The Israeli government is over here working the U.S. Congress and media directly on the issue, an unparalleled and almost unimaginable violation of diplomatic norms and a sign, if one was needed, that Netanyahu has no respect whatsoever for the White House. To be sure, the American citizens who are engaged in this effort have a perfect right to campaign to change government policy but they should be asking themselves if they are placing Israel’s perceived interests ahead of those of their own country given the lack of any plausible argument suggesting that Iran is actually threatening the United States or will do so in the future if the agreement is concluded. Indeed, the threat from Iran, if there is one, is minimized by reducing its ability to enrich uranium.

So the debate over Iran is, as usual, really all about Israel. I don’t know how the mostly Republican Congressmen who are taking the lead in opposition to an agreement are able to square what they are doing with their own consciences in light of their once-upon-a-time election to the legislature of the United States of America. They should perhaps recall that they do not represent Israel and they might also consider that they are actually damaging the security of the United States by their actions. Most Americans, who are being ignored by Congress, oppose by an overwhelming majority either giving Israel any more aid or releasing Pollard and most support the agreement with Iran. The American people have been bearing the burden of unnecessary wars since 2001 and it is past time that they be given a break from the apparent imperative to defer to the presumed interests of foreign leaders like Benjamin Netanyahu. If Israel’s friends are calling on Congress it is time that ordinary American citizens begin to do the same to demand that the agreement with Iran be approved. We far outnumber the Israel firsters and we will have to be heard, so let’s do it.

 
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  1. The deal is done, and American realists know this, which is why Obama/Kerry went along. The sanctions are lifted. It doesn’t matter what the U.S. Congress does. It can allow the USA to keep a leadership role and endorse this done deal, or be seen as an Israeli tool. Russia, China and most of Europe will resume trade with Iran regardless of what loonies in the US Congress think.

    The Pentagon has chosen Russia as its new top enemy, so needs to sideline Iran, lest they form an alliance. Iran is an attractive enemy, but does not justify the ultra-expensive (and questionable) weapons they want to build. Iran does not justify a trillion dollar expenditure on new nukes, or BS weapons like the F-35 and the old gravy train called national missile defense.

    • Replies: @gdpbull
    , @Pacific
    , @Pacific
  2. geokat62 says:

    While the Hasbarats’ comments always remind me of the Thompson Twins hit, Lies, Lies, Lies Yeah, Phil’s articles always remind me of Aaron Neville’s big hit, Tell It Like It Is!

    • Replies: @Pacific
  3. KA says:

    An overwhelming majority of Americans oppose providing any special compensation to the state of Israel in order to assuage its concerns about the Iran nuclear deal. —–

    While 12.8 percent favor “all of the above” compensation be provided to Israel, an overwhelming 67.8 percent of Americans chose “none of the above.”
    —-/

    http://antiwar.com/blog/2015/07/27/poll-most-americans-oppose-compensating-israel-for-iran-nuclear-deal/

  4. Realist says:

    The fact that Israel can dominate our government shows the corruption of democracy and one reason why it eventually fails.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  5. Looks like the Israel lobby is going to expose its underbelly to the American people. A new poll shows that a whopping 67.8% of Americans are against giving Israel any sort of compensation for the Iran deal, with the majority of the Americans (54%) in support of the deal being approved.

    http://tinyurl.com/pyxupoo

    In another poll:

    http://aufc.3cdn.net/e6dca770dc6d71f7d2_tgm6bxklu.pdf

    There are basically no potential repercussions politically for members of Congress who do vote in support of the agreement. 60% of Americans say that if their members vote for it, they will be either more likely to vote for them in the future or it won’t make a difference either way in their future voting. Fully 79% of Democrats said they’d be more likely to support their members in the future or it wouldn’t make a difference. Just 36% of overall voters say they’ll be less likely down the line to vote for a member who supports the Iran agreement.

    It will be very interesting to see how this plays out, but my money is on Obama on this one. I think he and Kerry have played their hand extremely well and this is going to be the beginning of the end of the I-Lobby’s power. Moreover, it will be interesting to see if Pollard is released in November when he comes up for parole. If he is released, there will be a huge outcry from the intelligence community and a lot of public debate – which can’t be good for the night flower I-Lobby. OTOH, if the parole board finds reasons to not release Pollard, that will also be an indication of the waning of the I-Lobby’s power.

    It seems to me that the I-Lobby is checkmated. This could be the end of a very dark era in American history under the shadow of the Israel Lobby.

    • Replies: @KA
    , @Realist
    , @Wizard of Oz
  6. Wally [AKA "BobbyBeGood"] says: • Website

    Russia will be /are installing defensive missile systems in Iran which could devastate any Israeli air attacks.

    Forget a ground attack. The Israelis, except against children stone throwers and women, are paper tiger mama’s boys. Recall Lebanon.

    Would Israel go nuclear? Not with Iranian biological / chemical weapons at the ready. Who needs nukes anyway?

    Israel is all hat & no cattle.

    Thanks.

    • Disagree: Jeff77450
    • Replies: @Big Bill
    , @Pacific
  7. I don’t know Phil, but I somehow expect you confer too much rationality on all parties concerned. It seems to me the more rational argument would be a pitch to the idea the purchasable political hierarchy needs intelligently dismantled as opposed to shaped and influenced. How about an assessment of the cold hard facts of the weapons producers and ‘security industry’ services are so integrated to the Western democracies economies, if we quit the pursuit of aggression, it would collapse our economic engines. It would seem to me a more to the root of the problem approach.

    • Agree: Sam Shama
    • Replies: @Eustace Tilley (not)
  8. Art says:

    Fox News is a joke – fair and balance on Iran is none existent. It is pure propaganda 24/7 – every other sentence is “Iran cannot be trusted.”

    p.s. Let’s be honest, it is Fox Jews. We must face the fact that they are cultural criminals.

    • Replies: @Realist
    , @Minnesota Mary
  9. Gulf of Hormuz

    It’s either Persian Gulf or Street of Hormuz :-)

    It remains to be seen if voters would be swayed by a campaign based on Israeli interests directed against mostly Democratic congressmen in districts where there might be few Jewish or evangelical voters

    Does such a district even need a substantial amount of Jewish and evangelical voters?
    I would think that spending enough cash on a candidate who kowtows to AIPAC’s line, is sufficiently enough to unseat a candidate who even contemplates to vote in favour of America’s interests.

    We far outnumber the Israel firsters and we will have to be heard, so let’s do it.

    Sadly enough, the Israel Firsters seem to be the most engaged ones, politically.
    Most Americans don’t give a toss as long as American idol is on TV and they can download some Kardashian app.
    They can’t even find Iran on a blind map.
    On the other hand, the best thing Iran’s non-existent nuclear weapons program has done concerning the Israel Lobby, is to force AIPAC and their cabal to operate in the open, and no longer in the dark.
    So maybe Americans may eventually see the light :-)

  10. @Ronald Thomas West

    “It seems to me the more rational argument would be a pitch to the idea the purchasable political hierarchy needs intelligently dismantled as opposed to shaped and influenced.”

    Now, would you mind translating that into English?

    • Replies: @Ronald Thomas West
  11. @Eustace Tilley (not)

    Translated for the IQ of 90: Come up with a solution to get the used car salesmen (snakes) out of the halls of our national legislature .. or for that matter a constitutional amendment that cleared out not only the lobbyists but disbarred and banned from office every lawyer, judge and justice who was on the side of ”citizens united”

    How’s that?

  12. alexander says:

    Dear Mr Giraldi,

    Here is question for you:

    At what point, do we, The People, start to recognize the lobby’s “Defrauding us into War” as a terrorist act ?

    I suppose the moment we do, a transformation takes place in the power centers of our Imagination….

    The curtain is pulled back, exposing the Israeli lobby, and its assorted appendages for what they (truly) are…….

    A terrorist organization .

    All the belligerent propaganda we have been, and will be, exposed to, serves the purpose to “terrorize” us into War…..nothing less and nothing more .

    What remains to be seen is whether this growing awareness is sufficient in its manifestations for the President, on our behalf, to act on it ?

    Even today many would argue that “remaindering” these true “Tyrants of Terror” is long overdue.

    They won’t change…so maybe WE have to !

    • Replies: @Realist
  13. Marian says:
    @eternalelixir

    The rapture crowd is intent on their much anticipated end times. Israel first is necessary to bring about the demise of everyone other than the true believers. Don’t even try to tell them that Israel was found by a bunch of atheist Jews rather than God. It’s gets very ugly. Anyway AIPAC is doing the work of the Lord, and don’t you forget it. Lol!

    • Replies: @Realist
    , @Abbybwood
    , @Anonymous
  14. @Ronald Thomas West

    Come up with a solution to get the used car salesmen (snakes) out of the halls of our national legislature .. or for that matter a constitutional amendment that cleared out not only the lobbyists but disbarred and banned from office every lawyer, judge and justice

    It’s not likely that corrupted congressmen will rally behind an action that will put them behind bars.

    I suggest the Elliot Richardson – Archibald Cox solution

    http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=archibald_cox_1

    that is, . Appointment of a special prosecutor to investigate those US legislators who knowing and notoriously engaged with agents of a foreign government who were not properly registered under 22 U.S.C. § 611 et seq – United States Code, also known as FARA, the Foreign Agent Registration Act

    Or the Elliot Ness solution:

    I believe there are attorneys and law firms in the United States and in Washington, DC, who retain that degree of patriotism and commitment to the rule of law who can be persuaded that it is in their interest and would redound to their enshrinement as heroes of the US Constitutional republic if they use their skills to bring lawsuits against persons and entities who have committed crimes against humanity, i.e. George Bush, Dick Cheney; or incited to do so, i.e. Benjamin Netanyahu, AIPAC operatives, etc.

    The USA has the legal firepower; it is time for those who wield it to “take the law into their own hands” to clean out and restore a corrupted US government and lobbying system.

    “If you will it it is no dream.”

    • Replies: @Ronald Thomas West
  15. @eternalelixir

    As usual, a very succinct presentation by Philip Giraldi.

    It is refreshing to see a poll that dares to show 68% apparently oppose giving these additional perks to Israel: it suggests, while it is true most Americans “don’t give a toss” about foreign policy, they are nevertheless fully aware of Israel’s influence on their political system and its representatives.

    Opinion polls showing high levels of support for Israel have likely been carefully shaped (as with the corporate media, pollsters cannot be assumed to be impartial and it is so easy to get the answers you want by slanting the questions asked – of course you knew this, right?). My experience is that most Americans clam up when talk turns to Israel or anything to do with Jews – or they will try to think of something nice to say. Quite literally they are afraid to speak out. People are not so dumb, they do know the score but, so long as they don’t see it as affecting them, they will go along.

    The fact is that US foreign policy, especially towards Israel, has affected them deeply: through 9/11, Iraq, Afghanistan, higher oil prices and hugely expanded military, security and surveillance. This connection has been ferociously suppressed by the media – anybody (including me) who dares to point it out receives a deluge of abuse and the very real likelihood of a ruined career.

  16. @Realist

    I recommend close review of Yossi Alpher’s comments about his recent book, “Periphery: Israel’s Search for Middle East Allies.”

    here: http://belfercenter.hks.harvard.edu/publication/25127/podcast.html?breadcrumb=%2Ftopic%2F113%2Fstrategy_and_national_security

    here: http://www.brookings.edu/events/2015/03/12-israel-periphery-doctrine-search-middle-east-allies (audio)

    and here: http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/events/2015/03/12-israel-periphery-doctrine-middle-east-allies/20150312_israel_periphery_transcript.pdf PDF

    Alpher outlines, and praises as “brilliant”, the four-point grand strategy formulated by David Ben Gurion in the 1950s and that has framed Israel’s relations with its neighbors and big powers to this day.

  17. Priss Factor [AKA "The Priss Factory"] says:

    Deep down inside, the Lobby isn’t worried because the Shia Crescent is broken in Iraq and Syria.

    So, why all this hysteria that is crazier than the ‘Red Scare’?

    Because Jews want to hold onto the mantle of the Holocaust Tribe forever.

    This deal was engineered by J-Street Jews who are no less Zionist than Aipac Jews.

    What Jews fear is that, once this deal is normalized, people will sigh with relief and care less about the Middle East. Jews want people to perpetually feel protective of the helpless Jews facing new holocausts.
    So, even as Jews deal with Iran, they scream Munich.

    Also, unless neocons put on this act, the GOP gentiles will feel betrayed.

    Neocons have been praising the GOP for being 200% for Israel(in comparison to 150% among the Democrats). The Neocon narrative is that Israel needs to be protected from new Nazi state Iran.

    But the fact is the Jewish masters behind Obama brokered this deal after destroying Iraq and Syria with the help of Isis and other terrorists. Obama’s pulling out of Iraq and toppling of Gaddafi made for rise of terrorism all across the region.

    It is difficult for Neocons to explain why Jews made a deal with Iran after Jews have been screaming about Nazi Iran forever.

    So, the favored narrative is Obama the stealth Muslim stabbed Israel in the back, and therefore good decent Americans must stand with Israel more than ever. But this is red herring to distract Americans from the fact that JEWS engineered this deal.

    • Agree: Cloak And Dagger
    • Replies: @alexander
  18. KA says:
    @Cloak And Dagger

    Neither you nor me have seen or read or been told by MSM of this piece of information.
    Qeustion isn’t why. That’s the way they navigate to the desired aims both in politics nd social life.

    In contrast to this,same MSM want us to believe that majority Americans support illegal immigration ,amnesty,wars and religious marriage rights and religious services for the Gays and Lesbian without any nationwide polling data to support it.
    Trump has earned his top position not on the basis of sex,drug health or environ,net but on immigration . That reality should have opened the door for debate on illegal immigration.

    This means MSM isn’t doing the job, is hurting someone trying to do the job,has is midrepresented the problem, has diverted focus away from the problem has hurt American interest ( above omission is an example)
    MSM can be charged with anti American anti national activities .

    • Replies: @Cloak And Dagger
  19. Sam Shama says:
    @Ronald Thomas West

    but disbarred and banned from office every lawyer, judge and justice who was on the side of ”citizens united”

    Exactly right.

    Here is what I said this in an earlier post:

    Fact of the matter is, since Citizens United, political action has changed quite dramatically in this country. This is the result of an explicit ruling by the SCOTUS

    http://www.unz.com/article/keep-your-eye-on-the-camel/#comment-971637

  20. I don’t know how the mostly Republican Congressmen who are taking the lead in opposition to an agreement are able to square what they are doing with their own consciences…

    You assume they have consciences.

    • Replies: @Drapetomaniac
  21. @SolontoCroesus

    All well and good ideas but for one problem. You can’t get a decent special prosecutor if you can get one at all. Remember Michael Mukasey? There is so much dirt and so many compromised people at the top, the fix is in in every circumstance. Holder shielded people close to the Bush family who provided cash and machine guns to a designated terrorist group (AUC) that used the largesse to murder 4,000 people in Colombia, people who were union sympathetic and would have driven up the cost and brought the profit margin down on that little blue ‘chiquita’ sticker you might have noticed on bananas. Robert Mueller sabotaged the BCCI investigation as a deputy attorney general (sat on his hands other than to claim investigations and prosecutions were proceeding) and was rewarded with the top job at the FBI. James Comey, his replacement, went from HBSC board director to director of FBI about the time HSBC was busted for the same behaviors as BCCI had; international narcotics trade money laundering. Here’s a tip of the iceberg of related crime the FBI wouldn’t touch under Mueller and hasn’t touched under Comey:

    http://www.elpasotimes.com/ci_18924755

    Better to bring the pressures to bear on congress, if there were some way to publicize the colossal scale of the corruption as well as the sheer vileness of the behaviors… congressmen might think twice at the sight of every lamppost -

    • Replies: @Abbybwood
  22. Realist says:

    “It is not inconceivable that more than $100 million could be spent to derail the agreement, but bear in mind that that is mere chump change to Sheldon Adelson, who is likely funding much of the effort.”

    Question: Where did Sheldon Adelson get so much money?
    Answer: From gambling casinos. That stupid pass time where middle class (and sometimes upper class) goyim go to give their money to someone else with a higher IQ. Jews generally do not gamble. They only invest in sure things, like taking money from idiots.

    “I don’t know how the mostly Republican Congressmen who are taking the lead in opposition to an agreement are able to square what they are doing with their own consciences in light of their once-upon-a-time election to the legislature of the United States of America.”

    You’re kidding right? Who in their right mind would conflate conscience with Congressmen. The reason they are politicians is because they are totally devoid of morals, conscience or any
    other attribute of a decent human being. They are scumbag assholes!

    “The American people have been bearing the burden of unnecessary wars since 2001…”

    The American people have been bearing the, off and on, burden of unnecessary wars since 1812

    • Replies: @chris
    , @dahoit
  23. Big Bill says:
    @Wally

    Forget a ground attack. The Israelis, except against children stone throwers and women, are paper tiger mama’s boys. Recall Lebanon.

    Nope. The Israeli military is quite good. Just like our American military and police forces. When politicians permit them to bust heads they do quite well. Fortunately or unfortunately, they are not given the permission, and if they act without permission they are sacrificed by their own politicians. The Rules of Engagement are so constrained that they must be babysitters and bottom-wipers instead of soldiers. When all hell breaks it will become clear.

    Remember Ferguson? The MSM was incensed that the cops wore riot gear, which (they said)inflamed the Negro masses.

    So the black administration and police leadership of Baltimore took the opposite tack. They directed their own police not to get involved, not to wear riot gear and not to wear body armor. The Negro masses still rioted.

    The problem is the Cathedral, not the troops.

  24. Realist says:
    @Cloak And Dagger

    “A new poll shows that a whopping 67.8% of Americans are against giving Israel any sort of compensation for the Iran deal, with the majority of the Americans (54%) in support of the deal being approved.”

    What difference does that make? The majority of Americans are against illegal immigration….how’s that working out?

    • Replies: @Cloak And Dagger
    , @Pacific
  25. Realist says:
    @eternalelixir

    “It’s either Persian Gulf or Street of Hormuz :-)

    There is a street in the Persian Gulf?

    • Replies: @annamaria
  26. Realist says:
    @Ronald Thomas West

    “Translated for the IQ of 90:”

    What was the point of the ‘wise ass’ answer?

    • Replies: @Ronald Thomas West
  27. Realist says:
    @alexander

    “They won’t change…so maybe WE have to !”

    Most Americans don’t give a crap. Look at the shit they watch on TV. Most Americans are low information, low IQ turds.

  28. @Realist

    There is one difference this time: more people are aware of the Zionist stranglehold on our politics than ever before and it looks like this is going to be an issue in the current election season, despite the MSM’s best efforts to bury it.

    • Replies: @Realist
  29. @KA

    This means MSM isn’t doing the job

    Oh, they are doing exactly the job that their Zionist paymasters have bought them to do in making the Protocols look like an actual blueprint. Despite that, Americans are waking up and the Internet is fast replacing the MSM in this election season. Once the Iran deal is ratified, our attention can turn from the Mideast to the stranglehold on our politics by Zionist influences.

    • Replies: @KA
  30. @Big Bill

    “Nope. The Israeli military is quite good”

    The most moral army in the world – with the bravest fighters?

    Propaganda!

    If there is a remote prospect of getting killed or injured, today’s Israeli soldiers do not like fighting at all – you saw how speedily they exited Lebanon having had a few Merkavas knocked out in the 2006 invasion. You saw too how they would take out a whole civilian-occupied city block in Gaza for fear it might house a single sniper. And, mind you, especially in the case of Gaza, the troops were hand-picked for their zealotry!

    Israel’s huge Achilles heel is that they simply cannot take casualties – troops mutiny and public opinion swings violently against any such action.

    • Replies: @Cloak And Dagger
    , @Wally
  31. Realist says:
    @Cloak And Dagger

    “There is one difference this time: more people are aware of the Zionist stranglehold on our politics than ever before and it looks like this is going to be an issue in the current election season, despite the MSM’s best efforts to bury it.”

    I wish you were correct. None has the balls to be called an anti-Semite.

    • Replies: @Cloak And Dagger
  32. @AUGUSTUS FINKIN

    Propaganda!

    Exactly – and it wasn’t just a few Merkava’s, it was over 40 of them – tanks that were touted to be the finest in the world since they were made in Israel. More telling, even with their IDF equipped with the best military equipment from our tax dollars, they were stopped in their tracks by the rag-tag Hezbollah resistance forces and had to scurry back with their tail between their legs. Israel is basically Madison Ave on steroids. They spend most of their time on “image creation”. That is why we get “God’s Chariot” for those useless tanks, and “Most moral army” for the dregs of this world. And look at how they are paying Habrats to post and upvote/downvote articles on the web:

    http://freetexthost.com/olutqact3l

    https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/3dsifv/a_user_has_inflitrated_and_exposed_a_prozionist/

    https://www.warriorforum.com/showthread.php?p=10170952

    So, what makes them a “good” army?

    It is not a surprise that they are anything but – much of their battle training comes from merciless attacks on Palestinian civilians who are unarmed (except for those firecrackers that so threaten Israel with their ability to blow off a precious jewish toe or two) and murdering children playing soccer on the beach. Meanwhile, the Syrian army and Hezbollah are now battle hardened and better equipped than they were in 2006, including serious missiles and drones.

    Would Israel be stupid enough to attack anyway by believing their own bullshit? Probably. RIP – without the peace..

    • Replies: @Orville H. Larson
  33. @Realist

    None has the balls to be called an anti-Semite.

    I agree – we are not at a point where a politician can directly take on the Jewish control of our politics and foreign policy without being destroyed as an antisemite.

    But, the first step to getting there is in progress. Israeli influence, including Adelson, sayanim in congress, I-Lobby, venal politicians, bought MSM, these are all getting exposed in the current fight over the Iran deal. The snowball has started to roll down the hill.

    For the first time, as evidenced from this poll above: http://tinyurl.com/pyxupoo

    There are basically no potential repercussions politically for members of Congress who do vote in support of the agreement. 60% of Americans say that if their members vote for it, they will be either more likely to vote for them in the future or it won’t make a difference either way in their future voting.

    This is a huge difference from the past. Most of these venal politicians spend their time worrying about keeping their jobs and getting reelected, so they walk in fear of saying or doing something that the Jewish lobby can use to take away votes. This poll reassures them that they can be brave and do the right thing without losing, and perhaps even gaining, their much treasured votes. the next few weeks will be telling.

    Of course, you are right to be skeptical until it happens, but for the first time in many years, I am finding evidence to be hopeful.

  34. annamaria says:
    @Realist

    He certainly meant the Strait of Hormuz.

    • Replies: @Realist
  35. Abbybwood says:
    @Marian

    Actually Rev. Hagee, who controls the largest Christian/Zionism organization in the United States appears to be truly anti-Semetic and Israel could care less as long as their “Greater Israel in the Middle East” project keeps moving forward unencumbered.

    Hagee has proclaimed that Hitler was a “gift from God” because his actions drove the Jews into Palestine to create the State of Israel and to “re-build the Temple” (which is currently a revered mosque in East Jerusalem).

    Google “The Greater Israel” project at Global Research.

    Then consider Gen. Wesley Clark telling Amy Goodman about the memo he was handed at The Pentagon a few weeks after 9/11 stating that the U.S. Had made plans to attack and occupy “seven countries in five years: Somalia, Sudan, Libya, Syria, Iraq, Lebanon and ending with Iran.” (YouTube)

    Look at the map detailing Israel’s wet dream for the territories it wants for the State of Israel, including a northern chunk of Saudi Arabia. Which might explain the new cozy relationship Israel and Saudi Arabia have developed.

    This agreement with Iran has thrown a huge roadblock up against Israel’s plans for total dominance of the region.

    Israel recently admitted they are in cahoots with the terrorists trying to unseat Assad by giving them weapons and medical aid.

    The question now is this: How can average Americans fight Adelson’s billions to let Congress know that we support the deal?

    All we are left with perhaps are well organized demonstrations in NYC and LA etc. in front of FOX, CNN, NBC, the NYT, LA Times?

    A press conference at the D.C. Press Club with Giraldi, Hedges, Scheer plus other investigative journalists, some celebrities and intelligence officials?

    We need to do what ever we can to raise the visibility of those Americans who are fighting against the power of a hostile foreign government roaming the halls of our Congress with their cash and threats.

  36. It seems to me, that the Obama administration will try to shut up the Israelis with billions of dollars in aid and weapons. This intense lobbying could be a cynical way of getting the United States to reinforce the “special relationship” with Israel.

    • Replies: @Pacific
  37. @Realist

    What was the point of the ‘wise ass’ answer?

    It was a wise ass question. Here, this one’s for you (it’s about language)

    http://ronaldthomaswest.com/2015/04/01/merge/

    ^

    • Replies: @Realist
  38. @Abbybwood

    No surprise there. At the top, the agency is corrupt to the core. Good agents don’t even bother with attempting investigations into top tier criminals, worse than the fact they know there will be no prosecutions, it can get you ‘euthanized’

    Use google search ‘novation, alberto gonzales, thelma colbert, shannon ross’

  39. chris says:
    @Realist

    Good question !!!
    I have no doubt that in a couple of years, we’ll be finding out that these financiers, Adelson, Saban, etc. will turn out to be Israeli agents aided in their wealth aquisitions and disposal by certain intelligence agencies in order to further their national interests

  40. @Seamus Padraig

    “You assume they have consciences.”

    con·science
    1.
    a. An awareness of morality in regard to one’s behavior; a sense of right and wrong that urges one to act morally: Let your conscience be your guide.

    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/conscience

    It is acceptably moral for many people to kill for country, authority, religion, family, survival, and for some people, lots of other reasons. Morality is a behavior designed to benefit some often at someone else’s expense. One needn’t worry about that “someone else” person as long as you believe that you are moral and proper

    What virtually everyone seems incapable of doing is leaving people alone. That’s the true meaning of moral.

  41. Realist says:
    @Ronald Thomas West

    “It was a wise ass question.”

    I don’t see it that way. It is quite common for someone to say ‘put that in plain English.’ It means I don’t understand what you mean. It is not meant as an insult.

    • Replies: @Ronald Thomas West
  42. Realist says:
    @annamaria

    Just tweaking him a little.

  43. @Realist

    She said “Now, would you mind translating that into English?”

    He said she said: ‘put that in plain English’

    Black woman comedian: “the truth and what you remember aren’t the same thing because ‘denial ain’t just a river in Egypt’”

    I’m a little bit like Bugs Bunny .. don’t get in my face with stupid the stuff and I won’t be on your case -

    BTW I appreciate Ms Tilly (not) … but I suppose you’re (or think you’re) being ‘chivalrous’

    • Replies: @Realist
  44. Realist says:
    @Ronald Thomas West

    “He said she said: ‘put that in plain English’”

    Where did I say that is what she said? I was using that as an example.
    Yours is a distinction without a difference.

    “I’m a little bit like Bugs Bunny .. don’t get in my face with stupid the stuff and I won’t be on your case -”

    You’re a lot like Bugs Bunny!

    • Replies: @Ronald Thomas West
  45. @Realist

    Yours is a distinction without a difference

    No, it was clearly a ‘mockery’ (good word)

  46. alexander says:
    @Priss Factor

    hi,
    Just want to point something out…and see if it makes sense to you..

    The “Specter” of the SHIA CRESCENT…the “arc” that runs from Tehran to Beirut is supposed to fill us with foreboding,,..and it was successful for a while, at least with me, but when I thought about it ..over time. I actually realized it means nothing in itself,at all..
    Here’s why..
    .If all the countries that FORM the crescent were “best buddies” with Israel, the spectre of its crescentness collapses..Completely..In truth .it never really existed at all…
    .What really exists is Israels desire to keep the Golan heights and much of the Palestinian territories, “permanently,” and to convince us to destroy all those countries that might get in Israel’s way. Those countries happen to form the crescent.

    But on those issues, the “crescent” states are on the right side of International law and always have been .

    Israel is not !

    We, Americans, have not been educated to know that …at least not until it is way to late .

    Israel returns the Golan to Syria and the O.P.T. to the Palestinians, as required by international law, and any legitimate issues pertaining to the conflict(s) are resolved !

    From that point forward, animosity from the crescent “states” toward Israel can be met with very serious , very justifiable force …..those countries no longer threaten Israels (false ) right to steal their land…they threaten Israels existence as a state within its recognized borders….That is a no no ! A Post-Holocaust,” ain’t gonna happen” , no no !

    The problem with the entire Israeli narrative, is it excludes its desire to steal the land and substitutes that reality with the ‘existential threat” posed by the” crescent “.

    herein lies the duping of our “political class’ and Americans as a whole…..

    You are correct that Iraq has been destroyed and Syria is well on its way to the same fate…
    and Israel may well be on its way to exterminating Palestine as a whole..
    ..But if we, the United States have done that to millions of innocent people, so Israel can “steal” their land, what kind of joke have we become?

    What kind of joke ?

    The message of the Holocaust is universal in its lasting value, no people should be exterminated at all…..ever again…..the idea that the Holocaust is ethno-specific, that only the Jewish people maintain that right and that “others ” MAY be exterminated is such a grotesque thought it undermines the entire fabric of western civilization !

    If there is a Holocaust happening at all today…it is not to Israel…it is to Palestine , Syria, Iraq and perhaps, in time ,to Iran.

    We should stop it…before the tragedy is complete ! It is wrong !

    Maybe that is the message of the Iran deal signed by the world powers ?

    Only time will tell .

    • Replies: @RobinG
  47. Wally [AKA "BobbyBeGood"] says: • Website
    @AUGUSTUS FINKIN

    “you saw how speedily they exited Lebanon having had a few Merkavas knocked out in the 2006 invasion”

    Actually it was forty of Israel’s “invincible” Merkava tanks that were lost in Lebanon. Hezbollah decisively sent the Zionist cowards / liars running back home. It was no contest.

    Iran would do even better.

    Israeli tanks devastated by Hezbollah:

    Here’s Hezbollah troops taking out a Zionist Humvee, notice the lack of Israelis standing and fighting:

    • Replies: @AUGUSTUS FINKIN
    , @Pacific
  48. KA says:
    @Cloak And Dagger

    “Witness his bizarre explanation for the February 23 edition of Tim Russert’s “Meet the Press,” during which Russert was so bold as to ask Richard Perle: “”Can you assure American viewers . . . that we’re in this situation against Saddam Hussein and his removal for American security interests? And what would be the link in terms of Israel?”

    This question – oh, the impertinence! – was motivated, not by Russert, but by the sinister influence of us antiwar conservatives, who somehow implanted this meme in his mind. “Perle rebutted the allegation,” avers Frum, without saying how, “but what a grand victory for the antiwar conservatives that Russert felt he had to air it.” We forced him to do it: we put a gun to Russert’s head, and said: Ask it, or you’re a goner. I suspect there are many conservatives who dream of doing just that to Mr. Russert – only imagining it, of course. From the gale force of Frum’s wrath, however, one gets the impression that he would’ve really liked to have pulled the trigger. But since Russert is rather beyond his range, Frum has instead directed his fire at an imaginary cabal that he endows with near supernatural powers.”

    http://www.antiwar.com/justin/j032203.html

    On some rare celestial alignment or gut wrenching incident in the core of the Sun they do or most likely,they are forced to do.

  49. Vinegar says:
    @Ronald Thomas West

    No Senator or Representative shall, during the time for which he was elected, be appointed to any civil office under the authority of the United States, which shall have increased during such time; and no person holding any office under the United States, shall be a member of either House during his continuance in office – Article 1, Section 6, Paragraph 2.

    Attorneys and lawyers are officers of the court. As such, they take an Oath of Office concerning their activities and allegiance to the court. If they are appointed, or elected to any other office under the United States, then they have to take an Oath of Office for that position…

    Holding positions in two different Branches of the Government is a violation of the Separation of Powers established in the Constitution.

    http://www.constitutionalconcepts.org/13thamend-%20facts.htm

    Also, the original 13th Amendment to the Constitution was, apparently, memory-holed and replaced:

    Moreover, after studying the Amendment’s language and historical context, they realized the principle intent of this “missing” 13th Amendment was to prohibit lawyers from serving in government.

    So began a seven year, nationwide search for the truth surrounding the most bizarre Constitutional puzzle in American history — the unlawful removal of a ratified Amendment from the Constitution of the United States. Since 1983, Dodge and Dunn have uncovered additional copies of the Constitution with the “missing” 13th Amendment printed in at least eighteen separate publications by ten different states and territories over four decades from 1822 to 1860.

    In June of this year (1991), Dodge uncovered the evidence that this missing 13th Amendment had indeed been lawfully ratified by the state of Virginia and was therefore an authentic Amendment to the American Constitution. If the evidence is correct and no logical errors have been made, a 13th Amendment restricting lawyers from serving in government was ratified in 1819 and removed from our Constitution during the tumult of the Civil War.
    http://freedom-school.com/truth/10/missing13th.htm

  50. Art says:

    Mark Rubio and his Jew sugar daddy are running an add on Fox Jews attacking a peace treaty that all of the major countries of the world had a hand in creating.

    The Jews do NOT want peace – never have never will – period.

    These people are all human trash – Rubio, Jew sugar daddy, and Fox Jews are all working in their personal selfish interest! World peace can go to hell.

    • Replies: @Realist
  51. Schuey says:

    I almost pee’d my pants when I read
    “Martha’s vineyard is said to be in recession as a result”

  52. @Cloak And Dagger

    ” . . . Israel is basically Madison Ave on steroids. They spend most of their time on ‘image creation.’ That is why we get ‘God’s Chariot’ for those useless tanks, and ‘Most moral army’ for the dregs of this world. . . .”

    The boys in Tel Aviv are accomplished bullshit artists. The image they present to the world is that of a righteous, determined little nation beset by powerful, evil enemies. The truth, of course, is that the Zionist entity is itself a powerful, evil nation. Its war crimes are legion; it’s contemptuous of international law and civilized norms; it hides behind America’s apron strings; and it’s never signed a nuclear agreement.

    • Replies: @Carroll Price
  53. “…the de facto and de jure agents of a foreign government are actively and openly lobbying and propagandizing to overturn an agreement entered into by the President of the United States. ”

    The fact that even more American Jewish people support the deal than Americans in general, proves that this opposition is not mainly a homegrown effort, but one largely instigated by a foreign government, a coalition cobbled there by a political party that doesn’t even represent most Israelis, even if it does fully represent Sheldon Adelson and his moral insensibilities.

    If Israel’s government really does represent all Jewish people in the world, as its Likud Prime minister claims, then it would take into consideration what most American Jewish people want. Instead, it claims primacy of their loyalties for current Israeli government policies, against their own better judgment.

    • Agree: Sam Shama
  54. MEexpert says:

    Phil said, “And Israel also will also be receiving a windfall of new U.S. taxpayer provided weaponry as well as the release of convicted spy Jonathan Pollard, whom many Israelis regard as a hero.”

    I am surprised that Phil Giraldi only casually mentions the release of Jonathan Pollard. I thought it will be a bigger deal to the former CIA agent. The release of the convicted spy Jonathan Pollard (the worst espionage case in the history of the United States) is a slap on the face of the American people in general and that of the US intelligence community in particular. Why should any foreign nation get any compensation for an agreement made for the benefit of the American people?

    If the American people allow Israel to derail the Iran agreement and secure the release of a convicted spy, then whatever happens to the United States, it will be their own fault.

  55. Realist says:
    @Art

    All Republican candidates, except Trump are backed by Zionist money. Or want to be.

  56. @Vinegar

    Holding positions in two different Branches of the Government is a violation of the Separation of Powers established in the Constitution

    I would merely note there is elected office and non-elected office. Federal judges and justices of SCOTUS are appointed. I merely suggest clearing out the scum that had worked to bring ‘citizen’s united’ into force, as an example & message, barring them all from public office and the practice of law (forever.) A constitutional amendment can do that. So, what are you lecturing me on?

    If my reply seems like ‘vinegar’ it’s because morning coffee hasn’t taken hold (central europe time) ..

    13th amendment or not, were stuck with dealing with what we have -

  57. @Vinegar

    Ok, so Now I’m awake and see what you’re getting at. If our constitution were to be enforced in literal detail, there’d be a different USA. For instance ‘the wall’ in the 1st Amendment would prohibit anything but contract law civil unions sanctioned by government and marriage in any moral sense would be solely the purview of religious institutions exterior altogether to law, a personal philosophical or religious practice if you will..

  58. sherban says:

    US government has money to counter likud propaganda,he has 3 billions dollars (and more) which are passed to Israel and he could take from there money enough to equal even adelson money.

  59. tadzio308 says:

    Why the emphasis, as always, on Sheldon Adelson when Haim Sabin and other mega-income Jews spend more on Democrats? The Donkey Donors are in a stronger position to influence the votes by peeling off Obama supporters. This masking of where the greatest Zionist influence is located aids and abets Bibi. In a nutshell it is time to acknowledge that while the Lobby rents the GOP leadership it pretty much owns the Democrat party.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
    , @annamaria
  60. What’s the point of the NSA if not to destroy the treasonous filth?

    Barry could stop all this nonsense in a couple of months merely by showing the dirt the NSA undoubtedly has on them.

    Start by destroying the likes of Little Pansy Graham and UpChuck Schumer .

    Leaks to the appropriate – probably UK, media.
    Make it clear that the US media gets nothing but trouble unless they cover it.
    Appoint a couple of special prosecutors,

    Stop playing puffball.

  61. No matter what ‘super’ level is reached by Iran, it will not be an economic or military challenge to Israel for the foreseeable future. Unless Iran was, somehow, to rid itself of the Arabic influence on Islam, Iran won’t be the ‘leader’ of the Islamic world either. While the schism between Moslems is being pried open by the western powers for their benefit, Iran will have to be a pan-Islamic protagonist – possibly quite an effective one.

    • Replies: @Pacific
  62. @tadzio308

    Dennis Ross was among the founders and first chairman of the Jewish People Policy Planning Institute (JPPPI). The Institute has dropped a P — it’s now JPPI — Jewish People Policy Institute.

    JPPI’s mission is long-range planning for how the Jewish State will relate to other nations. JPPPI produces white papers and holds symposia and advisories to highest levels of Israel’s government.

    Among the first papers JPPI produced was Shlomo Wald’s study of an Israel-China relationship, against the (coming, inevitable) day when USA would no longer be the superpower.

    Ross now shares the chairmanship with Stuart Eizenstadt, who was a key participant in the creating of JPPI.

    The Israeli cabinet held a special session June 28, dedicated . . . the annual briefing on the current state of Jewish life worldwide. It’s presented each spring by a semi-official Jerusalem think tank that monitors Israel-Diaspora relations, the Jewish People Policy Institute .

    The linked article focused on the deteriorating relationship between the Jewish state and the Jewish “diaspora,” the fears about intermarriage and assimilation, and the fears that diaspora Jews are embarrassed at Israel’s brutality.

    Two very interesting things about that report:
    1. notice the warrior images on the cover

    http://jppi.org.il/uploads/Jewish_Values_and_Israels_Use_of_Force_in_Armed_Conflict.pdf

    2. check out key participants/partners, and notice that their wealth was produced from an American base –

    Lester Crown and Charles Goodman
    on behalf of Crown Family Philanthropies

    Alisa Robbins Doctoroff and Linda Mirels
    on behalf of UJA Federation of New York
    Charles Ratner
    as Chairman of the JAFI Board of Governors

    Ratner Family Natan Sharansky
    as Chairman of the JAFI Executive

    David Silvers
    as Chairman of the JAFI Budget and Finance Committee

    Paul E. Singer
    on behalf of the Paul E. Singer Foundation

    The Judy and Michael Steinhardt Foundation

    Our thanks to UJA Federation of New York, The Jewish Federations of North America,

    the Jewish Federation of St. Louis,

    the Jewish Federation of Metropolitan Chicago, the Jewish Federation of Cleveland,

    Co-Chairs
    Stuart Eizenstat Dennis Ross
    Associate Chair
    Leonid Nevzlin
    Members of the Board
    Elliott Abrams Yohanna Arbib Irwin Cotler Wendy Fisher
    Sami Friedrich Misha Galperin Eric Goldstein
    Dan Halperin Steve Hoffman Alan Hoffmann David Kolitz Vernon Kurtz Morlie Levin Bernard-Henri Lévy Glen Lewy
    Judit Bokser Liwerant Isaac Molho
    Steven Nasatir Yaakov Neeman
    Avi Pazner
    Jehuda Reinharz Doron Shorer Jerry Silverman Ted Sokolsky
    Alan Solow Michael Steinhardt Aharon Yadlin

    http://jppi.org.il/uploads/Jewish_Values_and_Israels_Use_of_Force_in_Armed_Conflict.pdf

    How many of these people are so-called dual citizens, and if they are participating in long-range planning for the benefit of Israel, should they also have high-level influence in the foreign and domestic policy of the USA?

    Among the four elements of David Ben-Gurion’s “grand strategy” was reflective of Hebrew scripture (mythos), as when Joseph arranged to rescue the Hebrew people from famine by allying with Egypt (which the Jewish people repaid by slaughtering the first-born etc.). Alpher also mentioned the ancient ties of the Jewish people to Iran — via Purim, one of the Jewish world’s most prominent celebrations, when Esther slaughtered 75,000 Persians and subverted the government of Persia and took control of its treasury. Using these themes as models, in the 1950s Ben Gurion established the policy that Israel should always seek to ally itself with a major power.

    JPPI is built on the Hebrew scripture-based platform that Ben Gurion established, and Jews who gain great wealth courtesy of the superpowers that Jews ally themselves with use that wealth to benefit the Jewish state, not the ally.

    Two questions Alpher did not address:
    1. Does the entity that Israel chooses to ally with get a say in whether it is willing to be such a host?
    2. How have those alliances worked out for Jews throughout history?

    When Haim Saban sold the cartoon company that he built on the strength of the American infrastructure, he off-shored the transaction to avoid US taxation.
    In a New Yorker magazine profile Saban stated boldly that he is a “one issue man and that issue is Israel.”

    Why do the American people put up with this?

    The price of oil is going down.
    Tar and Feathers —-

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  63. @Orville H. Larson

    “The boys in Tel Aviv are accomplished bullshit artists. The image they present to the world is that of a righteous, determined little nation beset by powerful, evil enemies. The truth, of course, is that the Zionist entity is itself a powerful, evil nation. Its war crimes are legion; it’s contemptuous of international law and civilized norms;”

    Except for physical size, the above reads exactly like a description of the “world’s only remaining super-power”, which (in case you haven’t noticed) has also become quite adept at picking fights with enemies having no ability to shoot back.

    • Replies: @dahoit
  64. @Cloak And Dagger

    You may have hit the jackpot. Once the deal goes through it is hard to see what the next Israel lobby gala performance could be.

    And the deal must surely go through because there should be plenty of Congressmen who will counterthreaten to run against the Israel lobby bogey if attacked and none so stupid that they can’t see that the sanctions are about to be taken off anyway by the other negotiating countries and the EU.

  65. annamaria says:
    @tadzio308

    Why does not a dual-citizenship disqualify for the judicial and governmental positions in the US? Should not any war-sheerleading policy maker with dual US/Israel citizenship have himself/herself announce as loyal to Israel first and foremost and to the US second (if at all)

  66. I fully agree with the above. Israel is in ‘panic mode’. It has nothing whatsoever to do with nuclear threats. Israel is being isolated. Like a cyst, which Israel is, the world is growing around it. It’s drug routes are being closed. Worse yet, Israel no longer has the American peoples support; this is the real threat; without America, Israel is doomed. Israel is a parasitic nation that cannot exist on its own and Israel is aware of this. Clearly, Israels overtures to Russia and China have come up short; Israel is clearly a liability and national security risk. Western businessmen and investors are watching helplessly as their fortunes decline, all due to Israels influence and control of the congress. The door to trillions of dollars in investment opportunities and trade deals have been lost due to the sanctions. Israel must keep America in its pocket in order to survive and this is what it is all about; forget the nuclear bologna; never was an issue.

  67. dahoit says:
    @Realist

    Jews gamble big time,its just with others money they do so.Goldman Sachs?

  68. dahoit says:
    @Big Bill

    Typical arrogant Zionist.You have never fought a nation with a military unaffected by bribery,corruption and equal in force.And when you do,you will go down,as in Lebanon,where a guerrilla org sent you packing.
    I pray for the day that this malignant over endowed weaponized entity ceases to exist,and righteous Israelis create a modern nation conceived in justice and peace.

    • Replies: @Pacific
  69. dahoit says:
    @Carroll Price

    At the behest and direction of dual citizen traitors.Does that ameliorate our stupidity,just a little?
    Or is that guilt by association;Look,they do it too!
    Defending evil behavior by pointing out others is an exercise in hasbara.

  70. dahoit says:

    Both today NYTs and Wapo have Pollards parole in very small letters at the bottom of the news.And the comments are running totally against except from the usual suspects,the obvious dual citizen traitors.And it seems they are manipulating the number of likes.
    Typical behavior from those who have led our nation into the hell of neolibcon neocapitalism.
    Traitors.

  71. Sam Shama says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Indefatigable disinformation, just another round of feel-good schmaltz for the at-birth anti-semite.

    You really should not feel the need to engage in this level of deception.

    On second thoughts, speed on ahead!

  72. mr meener says:
    @Big Bill

    big spill you are full of it. Israel got its ass kicked in Lebanon twice and to think they do not pull out the stops look at gaza where they can barely win. our troops are useless unless 3 million tons of bombs are dropped before they advance. US and Israel armies useless without calling in fire. ISIS would annihilate both if fought without calling in arty jets attack copters. In fact ISIS has replaced useless overated US and Israel armies

  73. @Wally

    Yes, well, according to them it was a few and, if so, the greater their humiliation. I have seen 100 quoted elsewhere but 40+ sounds right. Let’s not forget the ‘millions’ of cluster munitions they sewed along the Lebanese border in an act of sheer spite after this humiliating defeat.

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/idf-commander-we-fired-more-than-a-million-cluster-bombs-in-lebanon-1.197099

  74. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Marian

    You may not be laughing for long. lol

  75. gdpbull says:
    @Carlton Meyer

    The sanctions are not lifted until IAEA verifies compliance with the agreement, and some sanctions even then are not lifted until year 8 into the agreement.

  76. Pacific says:

    Israel is not a nation, it is a sophisticated terrorist organization and the world knows it. No propaganda can change this now.

  77. Pacific says:
    @Carlton Meyer

    You know israel did 9/11…

    Israel did 9/11 – All the Proof in the World

  78. Pacific says:
    @Wally

    all this is happening because israel did 9/11

    and the world know it..

  79. Pacific says:
    @Wally

    Thanks for sharing

    Soon the zionest will need to leave the middle east to head back to there country’s of origin.

  80. Pacific says:
    @Realist

    they know Israel did 9/11

  81. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Sam Shama

    Anti-Semitism is simply a Goyisch reaction to Semitism.

    When Wilhelm Marr first coined the word, it was meant to be approbative i.e. to be anti-Semitic was to be pro-German (and consequently patriotic).

    All the cacophony, hysteria, name-calling, slander, teeth-grinding, threats, agitation and blackmail that inevitably sued, eventually made this beautiful word too risqué for anyone to labelled with.

    The rise of Holocaustianity as the state religion of Western nations put the final nail in the coffin.

    So, what was considered “good” yesterday came to be regarded as “bad” today. A truly Nietzschean “transvaluation of values”, so to speak!!

    If we ever want to rid ourselves of this Talmudo-Zionist yoke, we must change our mentality first, un-learn whatever we have been taught by the enemy within, and re-learn the virtue of anti-Semitism.

    • Replies: @Pacific
    , @Sam Shama
  82. geokat62 says:

    Phil, not sure who this Moderator character is, but his/her choice of moniker seems to suggest he/she is the moderator of all the comments to this thread, which is obviously not the case. Perhaps there is a way of blocking this choice of name going forward.

    • Replies: @Philip Giraldi
    , @Pacific
  83. Philip ! Do you agree that Israel is its own worst enemy ? The Zealots of Zionism and their eretz dreams will lead to the destruction of the Jewish State … accomodated by the “for sale” sign over the United States Congress ! There are over 50 pro Israeli lobby groups, think tanks, and foreign policy institutes in D.C. … not to mention tens of thousands ‘sayanim’ in the United States … for a country of 6 million Jews. Israeli firsters loyalty to the United States must be called into question !

    • Replies: @Pacific
  84. @geokat62

    Geo – Our general policy is to let everyone have their say unless it is really revoltingly offensive. You are quite right Moderator is not me nor anyone else on the staff. He is, in fact, an Australian judging from his address, but I assumed that our readers would figure out that he is trolling.-Phil

    • Replies: @Pacific
  85. Israel’s actions in trying to thwart reconciliation between the United States and Iran are worse than even Pamela Geller’s face and voice in driving normal people towards anti-Semitism.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  86. Pacific says:
    @geokat62

    I changed it for you hope you are happy.

  87. Pacific says:
    @Philip Giraldi

    cheers Thanks for the voice and I changed it to moderate to avoid confusion.

    I don’t appreciate being called a troll on my day one.
    :-(

  88. Pacific says:
    @Anonymous

    when you hear cry’s of antisemitism know you are near the truth and it is time to demand answers for the criticisms. it is time not to cry but to debate.

  89. Momma always said, nobody is totally useless, they can always serve as a bad example.

    Comparing the founders of USA and the Constitutional republic they drafted after mastering some of the finest thinking and writing from the Greek and Roman classics to the Enlightenment thinkers, to the cutting-edge political scientist of the day, Gaetano Filangieri, with whom Benjamin Franklin corresponded, to the ignorant Polish thugs who gave birth to zionism.

    Yossi Alpher traced Israel’s strategic vision, from its founding days until today:

    “[It] is really quite extraordinary. I mean, you have a country that’s just been born, a leader who is totally self taught in the military and strategic arts, and we have four grand strategies

    [1] — . . . periphery doctrine . . .[which means] there’s this sense that the ancient peoples of the Middle East have created an alliance, the people who precede the Arabs, okay. We go back with Iran, we just celebrated Purim, all right, we go back 2,600 years with Iran. The Egyptian, the Ethiopian national narrative is King Solomon and the Queen of Sheba. So, this is almost a biblical — a new biblical chapter. This is how some people in Israel felt. . . . And we still [believe this] to this day, because if you believe that this is — we are somehow Middle Eastern, ancient blood brothers . . .

    [2] — a nuclear deterrent;

    [3] — a great power, or super power ally . . . [based on our historical experience with Egypt and with Persia] . . .

    [4] — And the fourth was the ingathering of the exiles. Mass immigration, and here Ben-Gurion radically slashed military budgets. . . .Ben-Gurion said, I need the money to bring hundreds of thousands of holocaust survivors, Moroccan Jews, Iraqi Jews, and give us critical mass. . . .

    This is the “strategic vision,” the dynamism that was to breathe life into Israeli culture and create good relations with its neighbors — ingratiate ourselves — or blackmail ourselves — into a parasitic relationship with a more-or-less willing host; we think our neighbors hate us so we will wage war on them and sell weapons to our “periphery” to keep them on our side fighting: that is Ben Gurion’s grand vision. — Although, we would be remiss if we failed to mention Vladimir Jabotinsky and the Iron Wall Doctrine, of recognizing that the Arabs whose land was being stolen would resist, but Vlad proposed making life so miserable for Arabs that they would eventually capitulate.

    But, Alpher notes that Israel has changed; it no longer hews to Ben Gurion’s grand strategy:

    . . .you don’t find that anymore, certainly in Israel, you don’t find much — forget about grand strategic thinking, you don’t find much serious strategic thinking. I mean, when you have a succession of leaders, for example, with absolutely no strategy for dealing with Hamas and Gaza. Absolutely none.
    You know, you fight a war, you pull yourself together, you wait for the next one, you simply haven’t thought this through and you don’t want to. That’s a very sad commentary, but it’s also a compliment to Ben-Gurion.

    Somehow, to Alpher’s mind it is a “compliment” to Ben Gurion that his “grand strategy” was such a complete failure that Israel not only disregards it but merely lurches from war to war, never noticing, apparently, that something is radically wrong with they way Israel has built the foundation of its state.

    If ever an entity was a bad example, an example of how not to build a state, an example of an entity in need of a total reboot it is Israel. It is rotten from the foundation up. Call in the Cats. BITTGASO

    And if even a nation was in need of a radical renaissance, a return to its founding principles, it is the USA.
    Clean out the Augean stables of Washington (and New York & Hollywood) and start over.

  90. Art says:
    @Sam Shama

    Hi Sammie – how is our Little Jew – still doing hasbara for the Big Jews I see – picking up a few extra shekels tonight are we?

    Hey Sam – I was wondering if you were one of those Jews on some cliff overlooking Gaza – watching the Palestinians be murdered by the most moral army on the earth? Watching 500 pound bombs killing Gentile women and children must be a real thrill for a Jew. I hope you did not hurt yourself pounder your chest. I have seen movies of ape excitement after a kill.

    We Gentiles know about your cheering and celebrations because some brave women reporter actually put you on TV. Of course this made her NY Jew boss real mad – he reassigned her to covering Siberia. (An old Jew led KGB trick.)

    So Sam – you must have been all hopped up after all that – did you go visit your little Russian prostitute? Does it get any better than that?

    Well Sammie – I know that your boss does not like you and your tribe being ridiculed – so I will stop here (hope your do not lose your job.)

    You and yours have my prayers – Art

    p.s. Jesus said to love your enemy – you being a Jew automatically makes every Gentile your enemy – right!

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    , @Sam Shama
  91. @Ralph Raico

    Israel’s actions in trying to thwart reconciliation between the United States and Iran are . . .driving normal people towards anti-Semitism.

    It’s not implausible that that is the plan.

    Consider –

    “Ben Gurion’s grand strategy included . . . the ingathering of the exiles. Mass immigration . . .Ben-Gurion said, I need the money to bring hundreds of thousands of holocaust survivors, Moroccan Jews, Iraqi Jews, and give us critical mass.

    The world is plum running out of survivors/ victims, but not to worry, another fauxolocaust can be conjured —

    Netanyahu Tells French Jews, Israel Is Your Home

  92. Pacific says:
    @Sam Shama

    Who forgot I am Charlie???
    So we can have a picture of Muhammad ass and cock and balls as free dumb of speech , but we cant question israel AIPAC and ZIONISM or the ISRAEL lobby?????

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  93. Pacific says:
    @lincoln forte

    [It's very poor practice to write so many numerous, short comments, which thereby tend to clutter up a comment-thread. Instead, participants should combine them together into one or two much longer and more substantive responses. Also, adopting the handle "Moderator" might tend to confuse or mislead other commenters, so something like that should definitely be avoided in the future.]

    You are spot on Israel has become a hiding place for Criminals. And it is it’s own demises cause.

    • Replies: @Pacific
  94. Pacific says:
    @Pacific

    OK Thanks for the Advice I will try and improve my commenting style in the way you have suggested Thanks for the tip again.

  95. Sam Shama says:
    @Anonymous

    Good Evening.

    Two observations at the very start: first, your handle is interesting. Second, this is your very first comment, which being rather content rich, leads one to speculate who might you be? (I have my conjecture in this regard, but that is tertiary to the discussion).

    Your handle suggests that you may have concluded that Auschwitz is a deeply anguishing part of Jewish history, indeed that of humanity at large, . So this in itself eliminates a great many here, who assert that it is purely fictional, a creation of the Elders to aid world domination.

    “Holocaustianity”, as you call it, is entirely a matter of perspective. For us, the Holocaust is something we would forget at the peril of unpreparedness, despite the arch-lessons of history. For some that creates an artificial, perhaps oppressive imposition. Yet it is baffling why that should be so. I needn’t list the atrocities, that human groups visited on each other since antiquity.

    If the Inuit, the Japanese, the Vietnamese, the Cambodians, the Indians, the Armenians, the Russians, the Poles, the Germans, the English, the Irish, the Kosovars, the Chechens, the Greeks, the Persians, the Iraqi, all dedicated themselves to remembering and commemorating their own inter-group sufferances, humans would be all the better for it. We tend to have short memories, coloured by recent experiences, for the most part.

    In this connection I should like to acknowledge and second, a hypothesis made by commentator in these pages, Ronald Thomas West. He posits that there is no grand conspiracy or design. There are dedicated group-loyalists (at all levels of influence), and the interests of disparate groups sometimes align which may coincide with the betterment of the larger polity, while otherwise, not particularly.

    It sounds rather grand and noble to proclaim that we must struggle with the “enemy within”, an entirely familiar concept, in all introspective religions, starting with Zoroastrianism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, and Christianity and Islam. Yet what really matters, is how it is practiced. And by no means do I airbrush the actions of any actor in the ME, including Israel.

    The arc of history reveals that our geographic creations, actions of our leaders, of civilisations and nation states are unexceptionally the result of aggression, perfidy, machinations and more benevolently, political persuasion. It is the human condition, I am afraid. The creation of Israel, I would argue is the results of the very last (i.e. political persuasion), while its expansion a mix of the preceding others.

  96. @Art

    There are too many Catholics on FOX for it to be called “FOX Jews.” How about “Neocon Central” or BNN (Bush Neocon Network)?

    • Replies: @Realist
    , @SolontoCroesus
  97. “In Christ, there is neither Jew nor Gentile.”

    So, to paraphrase the poet, for those who try to thank God they were not born Jewish,

    “Do not go gentile into that good night.”

    • Agree: Sam Shama
  98. Sam Shama says:
    @Art

    Why do you remind me of some film character (can’t quite remember his name), with missing front teeth and very likely chromosomes as well, I wonder?

  99. Realist says:
    @Minnesota Mary

    No, Jews are way over represented.

  100. Sam Shama says:
    @Pacific

    Who forgot I am Charlie???
    So we can have a picture of Muhammad ass and cock and balls as free dumb of speech , but we cant question israel AIPAC and ZIONISM or the ISRAEL lobby?????

    Of course you can, but I have to manoeuvre through the detritus of some semi-literate from 35.3080° S, 149.1245° E

    • Replies: @Pacific
  101. Sam Shama says:
    @Sam Shama

    The last sentence

    “The creation of Israel, I would argue is the results of the very last (i.e. political persuasion), while its expansion a mix of the preceding others”

    corrected:

    “The creation of Israel, I would argue is the result of the very last (i.e. political persuasion), while its expansion a mix of the preceding others.”

  102. @Sam Shama

    The creation of Israel, I would argue is the results of the very last (i.e. political persuasion), while its expansion a mix of the preceding others.

    Persuading whom to do what?

    In the case of the ‘creation’ of Israel, after Herzl failed to persuade Sultan Abdul Hamid II to give over to Jews land in Palestine, according to the Sultan’s grandson, Herzl set events in motion that eventuated in the destruction of the Ottoman empire.

    Herzl shifted his persuasive efforts to Kaiser Wilhelm, who Herzl sought to persuade to permit an “exodus of Jews from Germany.” Indeed Germans engaged in agricultural activities at the same time, but with more success than, Jewish colonists supported by Otto Warburg and Baron Rothschild. In fact, it was the German-born and educated Arthur Ruppin who “established Hebrew culture” in Palestine, by many means more or less persuasive, not excluding subterfuge and commercial treachery. Herzl was not successful in his request of the Kaiser.

    Meanwhile, back at the ranch in St. Petersburg (or the corral in Tokyo), Jacob Schiff persuaded aka bought, bribed, hired as mercenaries a Japanese army to fight and defeat the Russian monarch, whom Schiff hated.

    And then along came Chaim, the Master Persuader, Weizmann. From Byelorussia, Weizmann’s most persuasive characteristic was that he cleaned up good, in contrast to most of his countrymen who inspired in the young Vladimir Jabotinsky disgust and revulsion at their lack of hygiene. Weizmann persuaded the addle-brained Arthur Balfour to give to Jews that which was not his to give — Palestine. Weizmann, too, exchanged that which was not his to give: several million American and German lives, their blood and treasure, and four or five generations of profound misery and destruction for Germany. Weizmann’s persuasions exchanged the lives of millions of people not his own — Germans, Americans, and Palestinians, for land that was not Lord Balfour’s to give. Master Persuader without peer.

    Criminal gang leaders frequently persuade — or buy, bribe, blackmail, etc., others to kill on their behalf. That by no means leaves the persuader with clean hands.

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  103. @Minnesota Mary

    There are too many Catholics on FOX for it to be called “FOX Jews.”

    Please be more specific: to the best of my knowledge (I don’t indulge in Fox), the Catholics on Fox are Irish.

    Irish Catholic is as different from Other Roman Catholic as Sunni is from Shi’ite.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
  104. Pacific says:
    @Sam Shama

    ????? 35.3080° S, 149.1245° E ????? 1 Capital Cir, Capital Hill ACT 2600??? spastic?

    I am talking of AIPAC and ZIONISM or the ISRAEL lobby….

  105. Pacific says:

    How dare we question or ask Gods chosen to account for crime and suffering at there hands.

    How dare we be antisemitic and point out their flaws.
    Israel is not a nation it is a sophisticated terrorist organization.
    Do not forget this ever….

    Israels creation in the middle east is not evidence of middle eastern democracy.
    It is evidenced of Global Autocracy.

    Having a nation situated in the Middle East that it’s very survival depends on oppression, segregation, apartheid, second class citizens, spying, culling it’s neighbors, assassinating it’s rivals scientist, The evils go on and on and this cannot be tolerated if it’s peace we are searching for.

    Does Zion care if US ends up with not only Arabs but Iranian, Turk, Ukarainian, Russian citizens hating their country of adoption.
    Brave and free will become jailed and terrified.

  106. RobinG says:
    @alexander

    You missed one thing — ALL land taken by Israel (since 1948) is stolen. It should ALL return to a democratic Palestine.

    Imagine the benefits of peaceful dismantlement of “Israel”. (Conversion to a real democratic state, not the racist entity now masquerading as democracy.)

    …First, the Jews would deconstruct their nuclear weapons, lest they come under the hand of Arabs (just as South Africa gave up their nukes before the end of Apartheid). So there might not be a nuclear arms race in the region.

    …All Israel’s false claims of existential threats would be cut off at the knees. (I.E. if they stopped their ethnic cleansing and war crimes, their neighbors wouldn’t need to hate them.)

    …Without Mossad inciting violence, there might not be so much

    • Replies: @alexander
  107. Pacific says:
    @geokat62

    Day of the hasbarats is gone
    day of the main stream media is gone
    it is the day of the commenters

    • Replies: @geokat62
  108. Pacific says:
    @Sam Shama

    Nice comment but this part got my attention..
    If the Inuit, the Japanese, the Vietnamese, the Cambodians, the Indians, the Armenians, the Russians, the Poles, the Germans, the English, the Irish, the Kosovars, the Chechens, the Greeks, the Persians, the Iraqi, all dedicated themselves to remembering and commemorating their own inter-group sufferances, humans would be all the better for it. We tend to have short memories, coloured by recent experiences, for the most part.

    Would you also include the Persecution of Ottoman Muslims??? Where several million also died?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Ottoman_Muslims

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  109. Pacific says:
    @dahoit

    You are correct but all we ever hear is the Great IDF
    Chaos and humiliation as Israel pulls out of Lebanon | World …
    http://www.theguardian.com › World › Israel
    May 23, 2000 – Lebanese snipers yesterday exacted a final humiliation on Israel’s 22-year occupation of southern Lebanon, triggering a firefight above .

  110. Pacific says:
    @Balderdash

    Israel is in need of another 9/11 style attack Cui Bono.

  111. Pacific says:
    @David Bruce

    More Aid and Weapons will cause the death of Israel. This will only cause wider resentment of the Jewish terrorist state by the American people..and the global community will hate israel even more.

  112. Ryan says:

    Fine column, Mr. Giraldi.

    Someone needs to checkout Room 3603 Rockefeller Center to see who is renting it.

    We’ve seen this play before. In 1940, the aforementioned room was where the boiler room operation run by Sir William Samuel Stephenson worked. He headed up British Security Coordination whose main mission was to drag the US into WWII.

    The BSC preformed a number of duties such as espionage, the spreading of propaganda, including that of the black variety and I suspect bribery as well.

    By the end of end of the war you had MI5, MI6, the Political Warfare Executive and the SOE operating there.

    The British pulled this same damn bloody trick during WWI. The Israelis have learned well from them about how to manipulate US public opinion. Hopefully, they won’t get away with this again.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  113. @Ryan

    Hillary Clinton in Florida said she would open relations with Cuba but that US must address Cuba human rights issues.

    The US has behaved with brutality and barbarity unprecedented in human history and not been held to account for it.

    Human rights indeed.

    holocaust museums and holocaustism are an abomination, an obscenity.

    • Replies: @annamaria
    , @chris
  114. annamaria says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Somebody should as her about “Pollard situation,” on record. And then follow with a question about “Snowden situation.”

    • Replies: @annamaria
  115. Sam Shama says:
    @Pacific

    There is no doubt at all. Millions died. It is an all too familiar story in the Balkans. A friend of mine and his family are descended from the muhajirs in Anatolia.

  116. geokat62 says:
    @Pacific

    I prefer your new moniker.

    • Replies: @Pacific
  117. @Sam Shama

    Hi Sam

    Giraldi’s columns attract virulent anti-Semites and no doubt pro-Israeli trolls. So he gets the worst of both worlds in addition to intelligent discussion. Not that it would convince anyone dedicated to hate, the fact there are intelligent, even admirable Israeli Jews, and I’ll take this opportunity to point out one of my more admired, ethical persons on the subject of Palestine, happens to be both; Jewish and Israeli:

    “For refugees, camps were shelters for the reconstruction of personal and social life, but were also seen as sites of great political significance, the material testimony of what was destroyed and ‘all that remains’ of more than four hundred cities, towns and villages forcefully cleansed throughout Palestine in the Nakba of 1947-9. This is the reason refugees sometimes refer to the destruction of camps as ‘the destruction of destruction.’ The camp is not a home, it is a temporary arrangement, and its destruction is but the last iteration in an ongoing process of destruction.

    “This rhetoric of double negation – the negation of negation – tallies well with what Saree Makdisi, talking about the Israeli refusal to acknowledge the Nakba, has termed ‘the denial of denial’, which is, he says, ‘a form of foreclosure that produces the inability – the absolutely honest, sincere incapacity – to acknowledge that denial and erasure have themselves been erased in turn and purged from consciousness.’ What has been denied is continuously repeated: Israel keeps on inflicting destruction on refugees and keeps on denying that a wrong has been done”

    Eyal Weizman: ‘The Least Of All Possible Evils’ (Humanitarian Violence From Arendt To Gaza)

    And of course it is overlooked by many that it is American Christians empower the worst of the Israeli behaviors, providing manpower and money, to fund West Bank settlement:

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3963.htm

    And as you note (when referencing myself) there is no one particular ‘bad guy’ or single group of people steering us to any particular outcome. It is, as we both have noted, disparate groups whose interests might spuriously line up. It is in this near-sighted alignment of interests, anyone who cared to explore the facts would discover people with opposed long term goals working together in present in what amounts to suicidal pact for both; Christian & Jewish Zionists.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
    , @Sam Shama
  118. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    So the usa/israel have exclusive rights to nukes in the middle east? What about saudi arabia? No we only go after nations that refuses to kow-tow to us and this false flag is the excuse to put the hammer down on them. What BS. Isreal and the usa are most violent players in the region and saudi arabia is the largest sponsor of terrorism. But lets focus on iran,syria, hezbollah and hamas. Entities that are generally just fighting for their people from our terrorism. Utter hypocrisy and double standards by the worst gang members in the area…

  119. @Ronald Thomas West

    Thanks for linking to Eyal Weizman another time — I noticed your earlier mentions of Weizman.

    His earlier book, Hollow Land: Israel’s Architecture of Occupation is also worthwhile.

    Hollow Land lays bare the political system at the heart of Israel’s complex and terrifying project of late-modern colonial occupation. From the tunnels of Gaza to the militarized airspace of the Occupied Territories, Eyal Weizman unravels Israel’s mechanisms of control and its transformation of Palestinian towns, villages and roads into an artifice where all natural and built features serve military ends. Weizman traces the development of this strategy, from the influence of archaeology on urban planning, Ariel Sharon’s reconceptualization of military defence during the 1973 war, through the planning and architecture of the settlements, to the contemporary Israeli discourse and practice of urban warfare and airborne targeted assassinations.

  120. Van says:

    The most interesting aspect of this Israeli effort is the polution of their political supporters and exposing their fifth column. I learned some things I needed to know
    about rand paul.

    http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2015/07/28/rand-paul-fraud-failure-liar/

    But it was the lie that vanquished that hope.

    In questioning Secretary of State John Kerry at a hearing on the Iran deal before the Senate Foreign Relations committee, Sen. Paul cited what he said were the Ayatollah Khamenei’s words:

    “The Americans say they stopped Iran from acquiring a nuclear weapon. They know it’s not true.”

    Claiming that this contradicts the administration’s contention that the deal “would prevent [the Iranians] from getting a nuclear weapon,” Paul averred that “the Ayatollah is saying the opposite.”

    But what did Khamenei really say? Here’s the entire quote:

    “The Americans say they stopped Iran from acquiring a nuclear weapon. They know it’s not true. We had a fatwa, declaring nuclear weapons to be religiously forbidden. It had nothing to do with the nuclear talks.”

    This was no mistake on Rand Paul’s part. It was a lie, and he repeated the lie to Fox News in an interview with the Lou Dobbs:

  121. Sam Shama says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    That’s your version pre-1947.

    I can post a multiple page account of the History of Zionism (but prefer people to do their own research) , the true story, which is fascinating, and does indeed have its share of intrigues, political manoeuvres and inter-group rivalries, much of which escaped the cognition of the mass of assimilated Jews.

    Its the vision of the early thinkers including Hess and followed by Herzl, Weitzman, Jabotinsky, and Ben Gurion, who rejected the caricatured reclusive, shrivelling and entirely religious character like Lemekh, and sought instead, the Hebrew, a person “who shall till the soil, love the land and carve a new chapter.” (I am fully aware of what your responses are likely to be, so do proceed), that ought to be understood by all, particularly by peoples, who have any aspiration of, and succeeding at, nationhood and what that entails. That is the story pre 1967. Post 1967, I have offered my thoughts earlier in the thread.

    On Persuasion: I was rather thinking of Abba Eban (one of the greats in linguistics and diplomacy) and the application of his formidable talents, at the U.N, which resulted in the partition, followed by global recognition.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  122. Juan Zarate worked with Stuart Levey to create the office of terrorism finance in the US Department of Treasury.

    He is at this moment testifying before Bob Corker’s Senate Committee regarding US actions on the JCPOA (Iran Deal).

    http://www.c-span.org/video/?327402-1/hearing-iran-nuclear-agreement

    It appears the senate committee has recognized that it’s out of rope on the nuclear deal so they’re introducing “Iran the number one state sponsor of terror.”

    They sound desperate.

    There’s a newcomer also testifying, Richard Nephew, a 34-year old graduate of George Washington University who is standing behind the key point that, Yes, the US can get “snap-back,” but only if the reason for requesting re-imposition of sanctions is legitimate.

    He’s gutsy, and not a yes-man, tho he does work with the “rut” * that the Washington foreign policy community has operated in since WWII.

    * The Iran Deal and the Rut of History
    Has the Obama administration’s pursuit of new beginnings blinded it to enduring enmities?
    by Leon Wieseltier in The Atlantic.

  123. @Sam Shama

    don’t flatter yourself Sam Shama.

    you’re not that interesting to interact with.

    get back to your vaunted financial portfolio managing — there are folks lined up at your window waiting for a pay-day loan.

  124. (sorry for going off-topic on your work, Phil)

    Listening to Bob Menendez at a Senate hearing re Iran nuclear deal.

    He is incensed that the entire deal is dependent on the IAEA!!

    Well Ya, it is: that is what the international community agreed upon when they made a treaty — the second-most important treaty in modern history, the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty.

    http://www.un.org/disarmament/WMD/Nuclear/NPT.shtml

    Read it, Menendez, it’s not that complicated nor that long.

    Iran is a signatory to NPT.

    So is USA.

    IAEA monitors Iran more thoroughly than any other NPT signatory.

    USA has cheated and failed to live up to its NPT obligations from the get-go.

    Israel is not a signatory to NPT, but Israel does derive technology benefits similar to those that were the bargained-for exchange that states like Iran were promised if they submitted to NPT.

    When the US administration under JFK persuaded Israel to submit its nuclear project in Dimona to US inspection, Israel cheated — they built false walls and spaces.

    A good argument has been made that Israel’s 1967 war involved an attempt by Russia to take out Israel’s nuclear weapons program — http://yalepress.yale.edu/book.asp?isbn=9780300123173

    Furthermore, in 1995 when negotiations took place to extend the Treaty, a process built into the Treaty, states of the Middle East, including Iran, Egypt and others, were reluctant to give their assent to that extension because Israel had developed nuclear weapons and causing nuclear instability in the region. To gain their assent those ME states were promised a Conference to consider making the entire region a Nuclear Free Zone. http://armscontrollaw.com/2013/04/30/egyptian-delegation-walks-out-of-npt-prepcom-meeting-over-failure-to-convene-middle-east-wmd-summit/

    kThat promise has not been fulfilled

  125. Sam Shama says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    I don’t (I have no need for it). I might add that you ought not to fall into the trap of deluding yourself that you have discovered the Universal Truth, as it applies to all the “pithy” stuff you post either. It will make a marginal difference, if any. Let’s watch.

  126. @SolontoCroesus

    get back to your vaunted financial portfolio managing — there are folks lined up at your window waiting for a pay-day loan

    Makes everything you say ‘colored’ so to speak, more than uninteresting, to point of patently worthless. Noting you’d not hesitated to reference Eyal Weizman’s excellent work and in the next moment cast an anti-Semitic slur.

    hypocrisy |hiˈpäkrisē|
    noun (pl. hypocrisies)
    the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one’s own behavior does not conform; pretense.

    I would point out the definition could also be ‘the practice of utilizing a work drawn from a community one despises, to further one’s agenda opposed to that community as a whole’

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  127. Sam Shama says:
    @Ronald Thomas West

    Ronald,
    It is troubling, regarding the messianic Christians and their activities in the West Bank. I personally know some of them in this country (in Texas), and am caught in a bit of a quandary as to how one balances conflicting thought. Many of them are very intelligent people, many less so. I really have no idea how this whole theatre unfolds in the months and years ahead……

  128. Sam Shama says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Just curious (maybe Ronald or Geokat might enlighten) to understand, which part of the particular post that S2C responded to, did I sound as if I was trying to ‘flatter myself’?

  129. @Ronald Thomas West

    snore

    Back to the Iran deal hearing — http://www.c-span.org/video/?327402-1/hearing-iran-nuclear-agreement

    Two blindsponts the American people have got to insist that the US Congress/Senate confront:

    1. US seems to think it is its right to monitor and control every element of Iran’s and other state’s behaviors.

    2. US legislators are not honest with themselves or with the American people wrt to whose interests they are serving. It is obvious to everybody but the people in the Washington bubble that US Congress acts on behalf of Israel to the detriment of US interests.

    and they lie.

  130. @Sam Shama

    I really have no idea how this whole theatre unfolds in the months and years ahead……

    Not good is my projection, whenever there are messianic elements. Here are some thoughts on the matter concerning the Christians and Jews:

    http://ronaldthomaswest.com/2013/05/14/gods-chosen-a-dumb-idea/

    I left out messianic Islam, just to note this exists as well, the Shia version is linked to the ‘mahdi’ (for those readers who’d like to look that up)

    To lighten things up, here’s my satire ;)

    http://ronaldthomaswest.com/2013/06/23/how-jesus-gets-kicked-out-of-heaven/

    ^

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  131. Sam Shama says:
    @Art

    It seems that ganging up on the Jews has become popular yet again.

    • Replies: @Art
  132. The ‘mood’ or overriding world view that Yossi Alpher expressed in his two interviews about his book on Israel’s Periphery Doctrine was that Israel knows how to interact only through negative, militaristic, punitive means. Even when Israel was friendly with Iran as its periphery pillar, Alpher emphasized that the relationship was clandestine, and that the sole medium of exchange was weapons or some other form of killing or harming people.

    The colloquy taking place between US Senators and today’s two witnesses, Juan Zarate and Richard Nephew, are in the same mood. The senators are locked in a rut; the questions they raise are, how can we harm them, have we lost our ability to harm their economy; how can we kill them, do we still have the right to kill them if we choose to do so.

    There is no introspection of even the most fundamental sort. Senator Coons said (something like) “can we still use sanctions to cause Iran to behave according to our requirements in the Persian Gulf;” and Sen. Jeanne Shaheen asked the witnesses “If the US is still free to take military action against Iran if we choose to do so.”

    The far larger realities that the senators seem incapable of contemplating are that the US does not have any right or claim to control Iran’s “behavior” in their own nation , and the Persian Gulf is Iran’s back yard not US’s– the UN Charter is specific on this; and as to Shaheen’s question: one does not go to war “if we choose to do so.” The “civilized world” has tried to establish rules, guidelines of behavior before one kills the citizens of another sovereign nation.

    • Replies: @annamaria
    , @alexander
  133. annamaria says:
    @annamaria

    should ask her (sorry for typo)

  134. geokat62 says:
    @Sam Shama

    I personally know some of them in this country (in Texas), and am caught in a bit of a quandary as to how one balances conflicting thought.

    Curious to see how you reconcile the statement above with the one below:

    I actually do like and respect them, and count them among my very best friends. If you think Evangelicals are driven by a fanatical vision, or that Jews are engaged in some manner of subterfuge, you are sorely wrong. I’ll give you a specific example. A close friend of mine and his family are Evangelical. A ranching family in Texas, they are extremely accomplished, the father and two brothers run the ranch, and my friend, the 3rd brother is a string theory physicist. The discussions surrounding most aspects of religion and its position viv-a-vis science is more interesting, philosophical, intriguing, and certainly more honest than the ones I tend to have with liberals in the East and West coasts.

    So the conversion to Christianity/ Rapture etc. can be approached in a very interesting way. Its rather a long discussion, that involves portions of the Tanach, the New Testament, the Zohar and the Kabbala….

    Insult? You must be getting the idea….

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  135. geokat62 says:
    @Sam Shama

    I recall I once challenged you to resolve that quandary… alas, I’m still waiting:

    Rather than providing any evidence for your statement – “today… any divisions in interests and endeavours of the Jewish and Christian peoples have all but totally blurred.” – you chose to quibble with the etymology of “goyim.” Nice try.

    We’re all eagerly awaiting your PhD Mathematical proof!

    btw – anyone who advertises their IQ score when unsolicited is, by definition, full of themselves!

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  136. Sam Shama says:
    @geokat62

    Sorry this is getting boring and you haven’t responded to my query from the other forum of PG’s (related to this one). Anyway you are trying to rehash something, which I considered somewhat amusing at the time and am increasingly feeling ambivalent about. What you said at the end of that discussion, I thought, was

    @Sam Shama
    While I do not doubt the sincerity of your response, I doubt that most members of the Israel Lobby happen to share your views on this topic!

    There is nothing inconsistent in my responses. You are trying to make something out of nothing. Your own posts are typically one liners (and I know why).

    Write a bit more, fewer queries and let’s give it a try shall we? (unless lengthy prose with any original insight or information is not your cup of tea)

    • Replies: @geokat62
  137. @Sam Shama

    Geokat has a narrow field of vision, incapable of stepping out of his own prism of understanding or embracing others experiencing paradox (particularly when/if doesn’t suit him.)

    There is, however, the example of General Caslan (spelling?), a hardcore messianic evangelical Christian until his tour of Iraq and seeing sectarian violence up close and personal .. after which he went from a target of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation to a supporter of their work.

    How does that translate into a fix for your problem? It probably doesn’t. People are psychological creatures, the rabid messianic Christian Rupert Murdoch’s FOX News pushing Islamophobic garbage and the ‘moral authority’ represented in the preachers who convince them Islam is evil and the Jews rejected Jesus will sway them, short of some observation resulting in epiphany.

    Myself, being more of a libertarian bent, would be inclined to let all the messianic personalities kill each other or blow themselves up but for one small problem; collateral damage. If all sides combined can bring off Armageddon, I could care less except for the rest of us…

    • Replies: @geokat62
    , @Carroll Price
  138. Sam Shama says:
    @Ronald Thomas West

    Subsequently, George and Jesus, with time on their hands, LOTS OF TIME, were having a philosophical discourse

    Carlin: So, where are the Jews?

    Jesus: Waiting to be saved from themselves, but it’ll never work.. uh, George, would you do me a favor?

    Carlin: Certainly, what’s that?

    Jesus: Do you see those bolt cutters over there? ..

    LOL.. The whole thing could actually add an additional circle to D. Alighieri’s …..

    • Replies: @Ronald Thomas West
  139. @Sam Shama

    The whole thing could actually add an additional circle to D. Alighieri’s…

    Inferno? That’s what were steeped in here (lol) Yeah, the Divine Comedy. That’s pretty high praise, better stop it before my head gets big -

  140. annamaria says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    “…the US does not have any right or claim to control Iran’s “behavior” in their own nation , and the Persian Gulf is Iran’s back yard not US’s– the UN Charter is specific on this; and as to Shaheen’s question: one does not go to war “if we choose to do so.” The “civilized world” has tried to establish rules, guidelines of behavior before one kills the citizens of another sovereign nation.”

    So true. This truth is absolutely absent in a discourse about Israel-Iran relationships. Israel has been instigating a war of aggression against Iran; the Nuremberg definition is apt here.
    The half-wits in the US Congress are longing for a war, but the approaching war would be not about sorting out the wrong and righteousness. By this tempo of starting military conflicts on a whim (“if we choose to do so”), the humankind is getting quite near to annihilation.

  141. geokat62 says:
    @Ronald Thomas West

    Geokat has a narrow field of vision, incapable of stepping out of his own prism of understanding or embracing others experiencing paradox (particularly when/if doesn’t suit him.)

    We all can’t have fields of vision that rival that of Plato.

    With respect to paradoxes, as I’ve noted before it was David Hume who once said: “But what is man but a heap of contradictions?”

    To which I always add: “True enough, but some heaps are bigger than others.”

    And speaking of heaps, I simply noted that Mr. 204 has been steadily building his heap with respect to two items: 1) his initial opposition to the Iran deal that somehow “switched” to steadfast support; and 2) his initial claim that the interests of Jews and Christians were in alignment that later morphed into a “quandary.”

    Surprised I was able to take note of these inconsistencies with such a narrow field of vision.

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  142. geokat62 says:
    @Sam Shama

    (unless lengthy prose with any original insight or information is not your cup of tea)

    Unlike some others, I don’t need to write a treatise to get my points across. As WS once said: “Brevity is the soul of wit.”

    And with regard to insight, you seemed to be in complete agreement with some of my insights, including “the long arch of… human history,” as you put it:

    I was applying self-restraint, resisting commentary, but this in a nutshell, is precisely what I believe the long arch of received human history tells us. Imho this is spot on.

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    , @Sam Shama
  143. Sam Shama says:
    @geokat62

    Why do you insist on lying re: “initial opposition”. Post my entire response.

    As far as I can understand you take yourself for some manner of auto didact, whose entire life and views are sui generis. I daresay not!

    As far as the issue with Zionist Christians, why did you then say “I do not doubt your sincerity….” etc…..I think Ronald is on spot. Sorry but you appear selective when it suits you!

    For the last time: I tend to change my mind when the evidence compels me. What do you do sir?

    • Replies: @geokat62
  144. Sam Shama says:
    @geokat62

    I never withhold affirmation, when I am in agreement with someone, including those with whom I have disagreed in prior conversations. Do you?

  145. Sam Shama says:
    @geokat62

    As WS once said: “Brevity is the soul of wit.”

    He also said : “Its a custom, more honor’d in the breach than the observance“.

    Leave aside wit, there is a paucity of it in these regions, and breach your custom for the benefit of others.

  146. alexander says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    You are surely correct about our Senators being locked in a rut….I have not seen one ask an even remotely intelligent question on the Iran deal…or anything else for that matter

    Maybe some of the questions they should be asking are:

    Shouldn’t we be going after the guys who defrauded us out of trillions of dollars to fight the catastrophic Iraq war….not starting another multi trillion dollar war with the guys who didn’t ?

    Shouldn’t we at least FIND OUT if Israel has a PEACE PLAN at all..
    .before we continue to support them financially and at the UN?

    Isn’t it high time for the sake of the future of our Nation to get a line item PROFITS audit….to see how much money we lost the american people..in our feckless wars abroad …and to whom those profits went?

    shouldn’t we demand that money back ?
    especially now that we know the rationales for the war were phony?

    Lets see if we can name at least three things we have actually done for “the American People “since we have been in office?

    Have we actually done “anything” for our true constituency…at all?

  147. @Ronald Thomas West

    “Geokat has a narrow field of vision, incapable of stepping out of his own prism of understanding or embracing others experiencing paradox (particularly when/if doesn’t suit him.) ”

    When it comes to comments relating to Israel’s criminal behavior, perhaps Geokat’s “narrow field of vision” is why hasbara trolls, like you and Sam Shama, have such a hard time changing the subject and leading him down endless rat holes going no where.

  148. Art says:
    @Sam Shama

    “It seems that ganging up on the Jews has become popular yet again.”

    Yo Bengi,

    Maybe you Little Jews should stop supporting the BIG Jews in their evil endeavors for an ever greater Israel.

    Those BIG Jews are doing you little guys in again – they will not leave you poor people alone – they manipulate you and drag you into all their greedy mean plans – do the bad deed – then you ketch the hell – and they run away with the booty. How many times has it happened in the last two thousand years?

    I ask my friends “is there anything dumber on the planet than a Little Jew” – they just shake their heads.

    Good Luck – Art

  149. @alexander

    Have we actually done “anything” for our true constituency…at all?

    This morning, before the Senate met to rehearse how they hoped to destroy Iran economically if not militarily, a caller to the Washington Journal program identified himself as 23 years old, living in Wisconsin, and feeling adrift.
    His town was “crap,” he said; junk all over the place, no jobs. “The schools are crap.” Nobody is paying attention to us, he said.

    Nobody — not one of those preening senators gave a good god-damn about what the young people of the USA were hearing out of their mouths.

    Here’s an analogy:

    On Sept. 12, 2002 Benjamin Netanyahu appeared before a House committee and urged them to go to war against Iraq; it was the “keystone” of the “terror network.”
    Yahu named four or five other states (which were, incidentally, included in Wes Clark’s ’7 states in 5 years.” Just a coincidence).
    Dennis Kucinich asked Yahu, “What about Iran? Should Iran be attacked second?”
    Yahu said: “Iran has 250,000 satellite dishes. We should beam in “Beverly Hills 90210″ and (another similar Hollywood product). Let the young people come to want the nice clothes and swimming pools … That’s subversive.”

    The fact that American children have already been subverted by Hollywood crap completely eluded the pos’s who make America’s laws.

    The 23-year old who called in to C Span this morning was 10 years old when Benjamin Netanyahu urged the USA to wage war against Iraq. Much of his life has been spent stewing in the subversive sludge of hollywood-produced decadence, urging him to consume, and to want, but not necessarily to become or to belong.

    Compare Netanyahu’s suggestion to these admonition to the young people of another nation, some time ago:

    “The most precious possession you have in the world is your own people.”

    The Iranian people have a powerful sense of cultural unity.
    Yahu wants nothing more than to shatter that unity. It is what he knows best how to do:
    to create the Jewish state
    the Ottoman empire was shattered;
    Russia was shattered;
    Germany was shattered;
    the British empire was shattered;
    the Palestinian people were shattered.
    Iraq was shattered.
    Iran is in the cross-hairs.

    And the US Congress does not even realize that the followers of Abraham, whose first public act was to shatter the icons of other people’s gods, are busy about shattering the USA and its young people.

    —-

    spend half-an-hour listening to Mark Weber discuss the disappearance of Europe –

    The Crisis of the West: Looking Ahead in an Age of Darkness
    Mark Weber :: April 2015

    http://www.ihr.org/audio/archives/stockholm2015

    http://www.ihr.org/sites/default/files/audio/mark_weber_april_2015_1.mp3 audio

    In this closely reasoned and spirited address, American historian Mark Weber examines the accelerating crisis of the West, and the factors behind the malaise, distrust and anxiety that have spread across the Western world. He looks at what this means for those who care about the heritage and future of the West, and outlines prospects for the future. Given at a meeting on April 18, 2015, in central Stockholm organized by Logik Förlag publishers (Sweden) in cooperation with Counter-Currents Publishing (USA). About 130 people, many in their twenties and thirties, gathered for this conference. Some attendees traveled from Norway, Denmark and Britain.

  150. Art says:
    @Sam Shama

    Hey Sammie – you posted 412 words intended to muddy the waters, hoping to justify the unjustifiable.

    Sorry Sammie, but Israel is an evil little country – every day it gets more evil – tomorrow it will even be more so. It has been doing so for sixty years – there is no turning back, is there!

    Sorry to say – but your hasbara efforts are like putting lipstick on a pig.

    A friend tells another friend the truth – buck up — Art

  151. @alexander

    All good questions, to be sure. Throw this one in for good measure: “Why shouldn’t the Zionist entity be cut from America’s apron strings?”

    No, you can’t expect any sense from the members of Knesset West–er, uh, Congress.

  152. helena says:

    S2C comments and others are fascinating to read. But why do not those who support European peoples simply stop referring to ‘white’ and ‘west’ and start referring instead to ‘European’ and ‘European civilisation’? Would that change in terminology not clarify the issues? Surely the terms ‘white’ and ‘west’ are part of the obfuscation that has taken place? The world has seen many empires but has there been an empire before that hid the identity of the emperors? Isn’t what Europeans really want, self-determination on their own territories regardless of whether other groups also live in those territories? But how can politics move towards that goal if the concepts of being European and having European cultural histories, and cultures that have different ethos and dynamics to other cultures, remain obscured by language?

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  153. geokat62 says:
    @Sam Shama

    Why do you insist on lying re: “initial opposition”. Post my entire response.

    Here it is:

    I am not opposed to a deal at all. I am opposed to Iranians having a nuke. Period. Not now, not in 10 years. (emphasis added)

    If you recall, I repeatedly asked you why you chose to refer to it as a deal and not the deal. Had you referred to it as the deal at the outset, I would not have taken any issue with you. If it was an oversight on your part, which I doubt, try to be a little more careful next time.

    So, Mr. 204, I may be many things, but a liar isn’t one of them.

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  154. Sam Shama says:
    @geokat62

    I may be many things, but a liar isn’t one of them.

    How about conveniently parsimonious with important qualifications which do not suit you? How does that describe it?

    geokat62 says:
    July 30, 2015 at 5:19 am GMT • 100 Words
    Here’s what you just wrote:

    Yes to the deal…

    Here’s what you wrote before:

    I am not opposed to a deal…

    Being the consummate grammarian you claim to be, you, of all people, should understand the important role articles play in sentences and the confusion that ensues when switching from the indefinite to the definite article, no?

    When I clarified,

    Sam Shama says:

    July 30, 2015 at 12:03 pm GMT • 100 Words
    @geokat62

    the important role articles play in sentences and the confusion that ensues when switching from the indefinite to the definite article, no?

    Indeed I do and right you are. There is also this small matter of dates, over which the switch occurred, certain rather important “articles” were inserted, which concluded the deal.

    and you wanted elaboration:

    geokat62 says:
    July 30, 2015 at 12:27 pm GMT
    @Sam Shama

    …over which the switch occurred, certain rather important “articles” were inserted…

    Could you be a little more specific about which articles were inserted that facilitated the switch?

    I provided it:

    Sam Shama says:
    July 30, 2015 at 2:47 pm GMT
    @geokat62
    Nothing sinister, just important memoranda and ratifications between European and American Banking as they apply towards ongoing custody and settlements.

    prompted more inquiries from you:

    geokat62 says:
    July 30, 2015 at 4:42 pm GMT • 100 Words
    @Sam Shama

    …just important memoranda and ratifications…

    It was the insertion of these things that made you switch from an opponent to a supporter of the agreement? I’m intrigued to learn more about such pivotal matters… care to elaborate how these items assuaged your earlier concerns that the agreement would result in Iran getting the bomb at its conclusion?

    …and I patiently reiterated my position including further thoughts:

    Sam Shama says:
    July 30, 2015 at 5:09 pm GMT • 100 Words
    @geokat62
    I never was an opponent to begin with.

    Importantly in the last three months, details of monitoring, composition, financial and economic snapbacks were still being made explicit. There are actually many details that are still in process. For example, the Iranian equity markets are trading internally at roughly 5 times earnings, which is attractive. What happens in the event of a snapback for investors who risked capital?

    A few questions of that nature (a risk management aspect really).

    Would you now do me the courtesy to perhaps respond to my query #140 in the other forum of Phil Giraldi’s?

    How would any honest reading of that exchange be characterised as? At which point (including the exchange months ago) did I say I was an opponent?

    thank you.

  155. @Sam Shama

    Thanks Sam, we can’t make these type of nuisance go away but certainly we can show the world what these sort of people actually are.

    Insofar as between myself and yourself, it does to note we would disagree on some things, for instance we would probably agree on Rabin and disagree on Sharon per positives, and we would seem to be in complete agreement on Netanyahu per negatives in relation to ethical leadership qualities.

    I would agree with you in part on 1967 as a watershed moment where Israel went of the rails, if I read you correctly, and you would likely at least partially disagree with my positions on 1948 (I hadn’t put those thoughts forward, yet.)

    More importantly, is presenting the example of setting aside differences to focus on solving problems to serve the common good. It would be nice if this forum were more inclined to such a direction … where other people might consider stepping up to put the problems in sensible perspective, perhaps lending to the emergence of understanding and ideas pointed to problem solving -

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    , @Art
  156. alexander says:
    @RobinG

    Hi Robin,

    One can make an argument that absent a “just” resolution to the Palestinian refugee crisis, the legitimacy that Israel seeks as a nation state, on the world stage, will prove elusive.

    Allowing the influx of six million Palestinians back into the “homeland” they(or their ancestors) were pushed out of, would so upend the Jewish demographic majority in Israel that its capacity to be both a democracy and a “Jewish” state would dissolve.

    Since I am an American, and believe in our constitution ,our way of life and our bill of rights,I value the rights of the “individual”, over any rights of “ethnicity”…as a matter of fact, “ethnicity” is not really a right..its something you are born with……what makes our constitution and our Nation so extraordinary is the primacy of the individual in our body of laws and customs regardless of ones ethnicity !

    Were Israel to choose our model and center its laws on the individual not their ethnicity, the absorption of the Palestinians could happen over night…….Israel might lose its “Jewish” character but it would become a ‘legitimate”democracy in the eyes of the world !

    For all I know Israel could have a Palestinian Prime minister, and he might be the best prime minister Israel ever had..

    It is kind of like the same idea as the US having a Black President, something everyone
    thought could never happen…yet it did !

    But part of Israels reticence to relinquish its demographic majority, has a lot to do with two things, and those two things are bound up in each other…One is the Holocaust and the second is the right to control their own destiny.

    A demographic majority in Israel insures its ability to control its own fate..the one fate its sovereignty guarantees is that a Holocaust will never happen again.

    Relinquishing that to a Palestinian majority would not lead to a second holocaust, but it might…and Israel is not going to take that chance.

    I also think returning to the place of ones ancestors and re-conceiving the Nation of Israel is a special point of pride, connectedness, and continuity that diaspora Jews have longed for , for centuries, Having it come to fruition is a great success story…almost a miracle !

    But that it occurred on the backs of the Palestinians dispossession is no less tragic.

    The implementation of a two state solution, and compensation for the Palestinians who were forced out is not a perfect answer….but at least it gives the rights of self determination to both peoples to live in the land of their ancestors and equal deference to their national aspirations!

    It is sad that Israeli desire for lebensraum(living space) in its land grabs and settlement projects has seemed to foreclose that possibility !

    I think that President Obama tried his hardest, perhaps more than any president I know, to see the two state solution come to fruition…..but sadly, at least so far, he has been unable to close that deal !

    We will see what happens…but it doesn’t look good !

    • Replies: @annamaria
    , @Sam Shama
  157. geokat62 says:
    @Sam Shama

    At which point (including the exchange months ago) did I say I was an opponent?

    At the point you acknowledged you “switched.”

  158. Sam Shama says:
    @Ronald Thomas West

    Ron I think you read me correctly (re: 1967), and we do agree on Bibi. Most likely we do on Rabin.

    Sharon is a long discussion, one that could produce important revelations. The trouble is on most forums (including this one to an extent, where I am reluctant to impose on Phil Giraldi’s generosity, since it is somewhat off topic), one encounters a steady barrage of virulent Jew hatred (that runs the entire spectrum from vacuous [@Art, etc] to the more studied [@SolontoCroesus] to the yet more cunning [@Geokat]), such that nuanced views are rather difficult to debate. Of one thing I am certain: the extreme views (regardless of any quantity “information” or “analysis” the writer perceives they have in support, will NOT find any coin in the broader universe)

    Long discussion on a very complex individual, Ariel Sharon. Perhaps another day and I should be interested in you views on 1948 certainly.

  159. geokat62 says:

    … one encounters a steady barrage of virulent Jew hatred (that runs the entire spectrum from vacuous [@Art, etc] to the more studied [@SolontoCroesus] to the yet more cunning [@Geokat])

    You are on record as having previously apologized for accusing me of making anti-Semitic remarks, but I guess you have simply chosen to “switch” on this issue, as well.

    Here are your previous words:

    Point taken. I certainly have not seen any from you,..

    Now, you recently called me a liar. What should I call you?

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  160. Sam Shama says:
    @geokat62

    You can call me observant.

    Your recent intransigence bordering on wilful mendacity, in equating a switch of articles “a” to “the” to a switch from opposition to endorsement, in spite of my explanations, which you solicited, led me to my conclusions.

    Would you have one believe that your own views, on all matters, leave alone matters of great significance, are always unqualified and binary in nature?

  161. geokat62 says:

    Would you have one believe that your own views, on all matters, leave alone matters of great significance, are always unqualified and binary in nature?

    My views on a matter that is of the greatest significance, i.e., the equal value of all human life, regardless of the ethnic group to which it belongs, is indeed “unqualified and binary in nature.”

    Now, do you retract your most recent accusation or not? If you choose not to, and you don’t provide a shred of evidence to support your accusation, then we’ll all understand what sort of character you truly are.

  162. Sam Shama says:

    the equal value of all human life

    ROFL.

    Did you think that an immature polemic, one that 12 year olds might argue over, would sway my entirely factual observation? The matter of great significance that we were discussing was the Iranian deal, especially as it related to deterrence, composition, financial snapbacks, integration of Iran in the economic zone etc.

    I don’t really care very much what people think of me on an anonymous internet forum. Caring about it excessively would subject one to fall victim ego. Debate the topic and the matter under discussion within the zones that are objectively observable.

    Should I wish to discuss matters more expansive, I think I know what criteria of discussion are required, and who among the many here are actually capable of it.

    Also it did not escape me that you implicitly conceded what I elucidated in the first paragraph of my last post.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  163. chris says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    very interesting movie, Solon !
    Thank you !

  164. Art says:
    @Ronald Thomas West

    “Thanks Sam, we can’t make these type of nuisance go away but certainly we can show the world what these sort of people actually are.”

    Dear Mr. West,

    While you were playing kissy face with Sammie – his Israeli people murdered a Palestinian toddler – burned her to death.

    https://alethonews.wordpress.com/2015/07/31/zionist-settlers-kill-palestinian-toddler-in-arson-attack/

    Sammie and his Israelis are not nice people. Sammie is an everyday murderer of Palestinians. Sammie talks out of two sides of his mouth!

    Do NOT be a fooled – his goal is an Israel without Palestinians – he will spend the time conning you to make that happen.

    Wise up – Art

  165. geokat62 says:
    @Sam Shama

    Now I know with whom I’m dealing.

    Thanks!

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  166. Sam Shama says:
    @geokat62

    As do I.
    You are dealing with some fellow that simply refused to argue over the inarguable (that all human lives are equal) and insisted on a factual review of opinions, as stated in these pages. Nothing more, nothing less.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  167. @helena

    helena — this business of “whiteness” and to a certain extent of “western civilization” are new to me.

    But then, I used to think “liberal” meant one who appreciated the classical, Enlightenment values of the Greek and Roman traditions that merged with the great Mesopotamian, Mesopotamian and other Eastern learning and experience (as a kid I was enchanted with Timbuktu, a land dominated by books and scholars).


    annamarina, yes, we agree that lawlessness is frightening.

    chris — thank you for spending the time. It is a painful movie to watch, and calls for a great deal of re-examing and re-calibrating one’s long-held beliefs. — and also to arrive at a new determination of how to act, with passion but without rage.

  168. Svigor says:

    I don’t know Phil, but I somehow expect you confer too much rationality on all parties concerned. It seems to me the more rational argument would be a pitch to the idea the purchasable political hierarchy needs intelligently dismantled as opposed to shaped and influenced.

    The word salad we get from this mope is priceless, lol.

  169. RobinG says:

    TY, Mr. Giraldi, for leading the resistance.

    The onslaught has begun. Internet ads by “RestorationPAC” (formed by Doug Truax, a 2014 Republican candidate for U.S. Senate in Illinois, defeated in primary) are the height of disinformation scare tactics. I hope the readers of this forum do not limit themselves to internecine cyber-quarrels, but will also contact their Senators to support the Iran deal. The critical ones are the 13 Democrats who could be wreckers.

    http://wallwritings.me/2015/07/24/thirteen-senators-who-could-make-history/

    Meanwhile, Israel continues playing hardball, on all fronts–

    http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/2015/7/31/israeli-diplomat-maintaining-german-guilt-about-the-holocaust-helps-israel

    Maintaining German Guilt About The Holocaust Helps Israel

    July 31, 2015 / Gilad Atzmon

    Haaretz reported recently that a spokeswoman for the Israeli embassy in Berlin told Israeli journalists it was ‘in the country’s interest to maintain German guilt about the Holocaust, and that it isn’t seeking full normalization of relations between the governments.’

    Embassy spokeswoman Adi Farjon made the comments in a closed briefing session with Israeli journalists at the embassy.

    The Israeli ambassador, Yakov Hadas-Handelsman, was present for some of the briefing, as were other embassy workers who don’t speak Hebrew. One journalist commented, “It was so awkward. We couldn’t believe our ears. We’re sitting there eating peanuts, and behind the spokeswoman there are two German women sitting there who don’t understand a word of Hebrew – and the embassy staff is telling us they’re working to preserve the German guilt feelings and that Israel has no interest in normalization of relations between the two countries.”

    Talking to Haaretz, Farjon made the usual distinction between Jews and ‘goyim.’ “It was an off-the-record conversation, a briefing talk. The way I speak with Israeli journalists is a little different. These things aren’t intended to get out.”

    A spokesperson for the Israeli Foreign Ministry defended Farjon’s comments throwing a new light on the notion of ‘Journalistic ethics’. “It’s regrettable that someone decided to violate the rules of journalistic ethics and take selected statements out of their broader context and distort them in a way that alters their meaning.”

    It was Abba Eban who back in the 1950s coined the priceless phrase ‘there is no business like shoah business.’ Six decades later, Israel’s attitude to Germany and Germans is fully consistent with Eban’s ‘business plan.’

  170. Pacific says:
    @Carlton Meyer

    Cool facts about Israel;
    1) The population of jews is such a small nos. if all middle eastern muslims start pissing at the same time, all jews would end up in Mediterranean Sea.
    2) There are only two species who look up every five minutes…Meerkats and Israelis.
    3) Israel is the only country in the world which attracts dumb european immigrants with no money.
    4) In 10 years there will be no water for Israelis to survive on but yet building homes for new settlers

    • Replies: @JustJeff
  171. Hibernian says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Irish Catholics are not a sect within Catholicism. We are simply people who are both Catholic and Irish.

  172. geokat62 says:
    @Sam Shama

    …factual review of opinions…

    Speaking of facts, the fact is I’m dealing with someone who refuses to retract his recent slur or to produce evidence that supports it.

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  173. Sam Shama says:
    @geokat62

    Speaking for myself, I do subscribe to the importance of having a consciousness of rectitude. Which compels me to note that frayed tempers, particularly as the day ages, is rather common in faceless, virtual, cyber duels.

    Onwards therefore, to the small matter of retraction of statements. I should not dream of tarring you with the same brush, as I would some Others, whose pretentious “effulgence of historical knowledge”, gives way to little more than the stench of sulphur.

    First, I remain steadfast in concluding that there has been on your part, a certain obvious indulgence in generative grammar, where you merrily, or, rather doggedly, cling to the equivalence of a switch in articles of speech to a switch in the essential substance of one’s stand on an important political topic. Followed thereafter, by an introduction in the debate, of a second-termish polemic. After all, I don’t expect you to oppose the criticality of oxygen for life, do I?

    A modicum of fairness, should therefore move the gentleman’s soul to offer their own retraction, the absence of which ought to compel this antagonist to draw his own inescapable conclusions.

    I might further observe, for example, in support of my suspicions in this connection, drawn entirely from a memory assaulted (and therefore reliable, sans recherche) that there were some statements made to the effect that Jews were engaging in behaviour consistent with the notion of “suicide by Goyim” ala Davis and Twain, were there not?

    Good Morning.

    P.S. I should like you to respond, should you choose so, to the entirety of this post, and not the typically comfortable selective.

    • Replies: @Art
  174. JustJeff says:
    @Pacific

    THE GOYIM ARE ALL OUT TO GET US ITS ANOTHAH SHOAH OOOOOOOOYYYY VVVVEEEEEEEEEEEEYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  175. Art says:
    @Sam Shama

    “A modicum of fairness, should therefore move the gentleman’s soul “

    Sorry Sammie – you are not a gentleman and you have no soul. You are fraud – your goal is deception – “through words you make war” – you goal is to distract people from talking about the bad things your country of Israel does.

    Your post to geofat62 has the intellectual significance of a fart. On this thread I posted an article about your people burring to death a Palestinian infant girl – your response was – NOTHING ZERO – no sorry – NOTHING. What the hell is wrong with YOU Jews?

    Here is another outrage “Israel introduces controversial 20-year jail sentences for stone throwing”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/11755603/Israel-introduces-controversial-20-year-jail-sentences-for-stone-throwing.html

    Jesus said “the truth will set you free.” There is the truth about you Little Jews who support your Big Jews to the hilt.

    Do you want to be free or do you want to be a Zionist Jew?

    Your best friend – Art

    • Replies: @geokat62
    , @Sam Shama
  176. geokat62 says:
    @Art

    Your post to geokat62 has the intellectual significance of a fart.

    An intellectual fart, indeed!

  177. Sam Shama says:
    @Art

    It might be difficult for you to fathom, but I participate in these discussions, with precisely the time it takes to write my replies, only to those I am inclined to correspond with, your posts not being a member of that set, unless directly addressed to me.

    So therefore I searched for the entry you alluded to, read it, and my conclusion is unqualified: Its an abomination, and those settlers ought to be caught and summarily executed!

    You don’t know me (indeed I daresay that most here, do not know each other personally) so one should not make hasty judgements and write tripe (“did you go and visit you Russian prostitute….” etc). Your written word frames your image.

    • Replies: @Art
  178. Art says:
    @Sam Shama

    “Its an abomination (the burning to death of the Palestinian infant), and those settlers ought to be caught and summarily executed!”

    Sam – words are cheep – the prospect of an execution is zero – we both know that – so should everyone reading this thread.

    ““did you go and visit you Russian prostitute….””

    First I do not mean you personally – that was a dig at every generic Zionist Jew Israeli.

    We all know that Israel is infamous for human trafficking.

    http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124×123689

    Keeping it honest – Art

  179. annamaria says:
    @alexander

    “But part of Israel’s reticence to relinquish its demographic majority, has a lot to do with two things, and those two things are bound up in each other…One is the Holocaust and the second is the right to control their own destiny.”

    You do understand that any developed country has a history of bad blood with some other country and that some of the past conflicts were on a scale of Jewish Holocaust (look at the ongoing Iraq tragedy in which Israel has a decisive hand). As for “the right to control their own destiny,” when this right is applied in other countries, this would mean an immediate discrimination against Jewish presence in government and legislatuture (see the influence of Jewish interests on the “right to control their own destinies” by Britain and the US ). Does not that ring goose & gander? It is mind-boggling that Israel has been working so hard to undermine the well-being of Jewish people worldwide. And for what? – to create an apartheid state populated by the religious fanatics and economic emigres from the former Soviet Union?

    At some point, a critical mass will be reached in response to this and like this: “Haaretz reported recently that a spokeswoman for the Israeli embassy in Berlin told Israeli journalists it was ‘in the country’s interest to maintain German guilt about the Holocaust, and that it isn’t seeking full normalization of relations between the governments.’”
    Obscenity and moral decay – no other words fit to qualify the depravity of Israeli leadership.

  180. Sam Shama says:
    @alexander

    and also @anamarina. This statement

    You do understand that any developed country has a history of bad blood with some other country and that some of the past conflicts were on a scale of Jewish Holocaust (look at the ongoing Iraq tragedy in which Israel has a decisive hand

    is quite true.

    I am an American citizen. I retain a close relationship with family who live inside the Green Line. I am fluent in Hebrew and was brought up to cherish an entirely different Zionism by my grandparents, one which would apply to the land pre-1967. It was an idea perhaps unique in the annals of Jewish history, one that magically almost, transformed the retiring, bookish jew to a pioneer, a tiller of the soil who loved the land and carved a new beginning. Alas, that idea was fragile, a whisper could make it vanish, and it did.

    There is so much to write.

    I have attempted to place the situation of Israel on a pragmatic footing, and believed back in 2005, that Ariel Sharon had the correct strategy to bring about the 2SS. He was a chess player, and I reckon he used the settler movement as so many chess pieces on a board, to be used and moved, in negotiations with the Arabs. He had settled on a land swap, the Wall, and compensation for Arabs to obtain the globally optimal solution to the insoluble. He had as partners in this effort, Leah Rabin and many other intellectuals and Jewish leaders, the U.S. Administration, Europe and in fact the PLO leadership (public grumbling and protestations notwithstanding). A little known fact about Arik Sharon (certainly not in the MSM or any other source for that matter), was that he was loved by the Bedouim, who taught him the lay of the land. And he loved them. Growing up in a kibbutz, he was also a proponent of including Arab members as kibbutznikim.

    He then went into a coma.

    The solution ripped asunder by those who followed, concluding with Bibi, a man with limited intelligence, as immoral a creature one can imagine and as vile a demagogue one would hope to avoid. He, Lieberman, Naftali Bennet and the proto-Russian hordes who have flooded the WB are doing their utmost to ostensibly bring about the Rapture (a cunning subterfuge), but essentially formulating the new handbook of ethnic cleansing.

    There is likely a groundswell of bitterness, apprehension and disillusionment among the Israeli youth who go to the IDF (this is my speculation based on a not insignificant sample) and all my attempts, all permutations to obtain a new solution have failed the simple test of morality.

    I know this post of mine might catch a few here aback, but it had to be written.

    An extraordinary article I hereby share:

    http://internationaltimes.it/hostile-intelligence-reflections-from-a-visit-to-the-west-bank/

  181. Sam Shama says:
    @Sam Shama

    ** Leah Rabin was a friend and supporter of A.S., but the land swap and ongoing work with Sharon on the 2SS was Dalia Rabin, Yitzhak’s daughter.

    • Replies: @Art
  182. Art says:
    @Sam Shama

    Hey Sam – bad news – you Jews have done it again – you have murdered 2 17 year olds protesting your burring to death murder of the Palestinian baby.

    The most “moral army on the planet” does it again. It just goes on and on – death after death.

    http://www.rt.com/news/311306-palestinian-clashes-jewish-arson-attack/

    I feel sorry for you for you Little Jews – when are going to see the truth – Art

  183. geokat62 says:
    @Sam Shama

    I know this post of mine might catch a few here aback, but it had to be written.

    You’re joking, right? You have simply acknowledged the facts of the situation. What would truly take us aback is if you practiced what you preached and demonstrated that each human life is equal by condemning the occupation that has lasted almost 50 years and calling for an end to it, not just with words, but by supporting the BDS movement. If you consider yourself a true humanitarian you would join the ranks of Max Blumenthal, Gideon Levy, and other “self-hating” Jews who have taken a courageous stand by putting life and limb on the line in an effort to dismantal the Apartheid regime. These individuals are the true humanitarians and courageous spirits because they are capable of setting aside their own ethnicity and acknowledging injustices even when they know they will be subjected to attack by their own people. But these individuals will be vindicated, as time will prove they were on the right side of history.

    So, Mr. 204, do you truly want to take us aback?

    • Replies: @annamaria
  184. van says:

    @Sam the Sham- (and the Pharoahs)
    I have a very sour attitude toward Israel. I don’t give a fig about Israeli strategic interests. If you want to go to war and occupy Lebanon, and the US could be left out of the equation, or create an Appartide hell in the West Bank where the original occupants are treated like dirt, or Invade Syria, etc, this sort of activity would generate, for me, a muted level of scorn and disapproval, but when the Zionists in the US, Jewish and Christian, have seized the reins of power in the media and in the political system, all out of proportion to their numbers in the population, this presents a danger to my freedom, and in the case of putting the US against certain Israeli stragetic enemies like Russia, it presents a physical risk to me, over and above the moral hazzard of being a active supporter of this beast of the Middle East.

    I don’t care about the socialist arguments about Jews and Banking, or about the Christ killer stuff, or even about the antagonism toward Christianity in the public square (well maybe that a little) BUT the hijacking of the media and political system has caused a physical hazzard for the half blind and clueless idiot which is the US man on the street because the foreign policy posture of the US is now entirely devoted to promoting the Likud objectives in the world, and I resent the cost and risk which accrue to that fact.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  185. you rock, van the man.

    not you Sam the Sham.

  186. annamaria says:
    @geokat62

    “Max Blumenthal, Gideon Levy, and other “self-hating” Jews who have taken a courageous stand by putting life and limb on the line in an effort to dismantal the Apartheid regime….these individuals are the true humanitarians and courageous spirits because they are capable of setting aside their own ethnicity…”
    Thank you for your post.
    Yes. The noble human spirit knows no ethnic qualifications. The strength of the best in Jewish tradition comes from all-embracing humanism.

    • Agree: Sam Shama
  187. alexander says:
    @Sam Shama

    Mr Shama, Anamarina,

    There may be a few inflection points in history..events that occur that signal a transformation in society, a real closing of the door, if you will, to a just resolution to the conflict.

    See if these ones have resonance with you :

    The assassination of Yitzak Rabin in 1995, was one such pivotal point . It seemed to “send a message” to any leader of Israel who might seriously consider “withdrawing settlements” from the O.P.T.and “actually”implementing the two state solution….

    .The message was “You are a dead man ! .”

    The second inflection point, curiously, happened earlier ,in 1991, with Operation Desert Storm.
    Although having little to do with Israel, directly or indirectly,( it certainly was not a war for Israel, in my estimation)…..the “overwhelming “superior firepower displayed by the United States, in its routing of the Iraqi army from Kuwait, created a very lasting impression…especially on the more zealous Israeli extremists both here and abroad……that “wars of aggression” were they to be instigated , could be won quickly and decisively.!

    The third inflection point, possibly contingent on the first two, was the formulation of the “Clean break: strategy for securing the Realm” by the triumphant Mr Netanyahu in 1996 and his coterie of belligerent” neoconservative” think tankers …..

    .The idea in a nutshell, was that Israel would abandon ALL its international obligations to” peace”, Keep “permanently” the Golan Heights and most of the Occupied Palestinian Territories…and launch wars of aggression through its biggest proxy, the USA, against the five countries that would most inhibit those ambitions !

    The question became HOW to convince the American People, its representative bodies, its intellectual class, and its military that they should do this?

    Then…. like some “golden parachute from heaven” comes 9-11, the” perfect” opportunity for Israeli extremists to gain the upper hand.

    .a true “Carpe Diem” moment for Mr Netanyahu, the” neocons “and their belligerent ambitions..
    .
    .They skillfully went into action utilizing American outrage at the attack to transform our laws , the american Psyche, and the political class into ones which condone “wars of aggression”, throws off the restricting yolk of international law that prohibits it , and begin its thirteen year “reign” of conquest and annihilation on the Middle East.

    In short…… The “War on Terror” is born !

    And of course, here we are today…..

    Does this “sequencing”seem to ring true for you Mr Shama and Anamarina ? !

    it makes a lot of sense to me !

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    , @SolontoCroesus
  188. Sam Shama says:
    @alexander

    Hi Alexander,
    I would have to agree with you on the sequence of events, exactly as you state. The interests of certain disparate groups aligned and here we are.

    My objective is more than trying to take anyone here aback.

    I hope to achieve more, much more, than an exercise in faculty lounge revolution. People speak of being on the “right side of history”, which if one paused to reflect for a moment, would make it abundantly clear, that the “story” in “history” in not written with the raw material of morality. Far from it: it is written with the raw material provided by the dominant economic powers. South Africa is a mess today. The reasons are obvious. While all human life is sacrosanct, not all human groups have equal or any capability, for that matter, to organise modern, prosperous states. Yes I know this might tie some souls here into knots, as well Gideon Levy, but it just happens to be true. Levy is a “courageous” and moral human. Yet he has very little to show in the way of achievements.

    One needs to think about acts and effects.

    The BDS movement will not achieve much success. You may have thought about it. There are many reasons. The right of return (whether it is a 2SS or 1SS) will have the effect of dousing the country with bilge water. There are just too many egyptians, jordanians, syrians, lebanese, yemenis etc., looking to move to erertz Israel. These “descendants” will overwhelm resources, and the population today, most of all the true Palestinians will absolutely revolt! That is a guarantee. More importantly the BDS as it is constituted today will dissolve if they were told that the right of return is a non-starter. There has developed for at least the past three decades , just under the covers, a deep ecosystem between the palestinian merchant class with the israeli businessmen. For example any farm product that BDS can successfully block in the EU or US, simply gets repackaged as West Bank production (in which case it gets swifter passage to the EU) or “made in China” (with Chinese help, achieving instantly the same effect). Everybody knows it in the West Bank and Israel, and everybody connives because everyday economics are tied to it).

    Much to think about.

    (The idiots yapping around like @SolontoCroesus = @van, you can object, despise, resent, do whatsoever titillates your stunted senses, you will have no success, none at all, because you have no real cognition of your hurdles)

    • Replies: @geokat62
    , @geokat62
    , @geokat62
  189. Van says:

    @Sam Shama.
    So first i get a pie in the face “titillates your stunted senses”. Ok that done,
    the assertion is that I will not achieve any success because– I don’t understand
    My hurdles? What hurdles. I do understand-all the political candidates on their knees to kiss the ring of Sheldon Adelson? Whether I achieve any success or not, I don’t know. I am a powerless observer, and “my hurdles” are the media empires and Zionist moguls (Christian and Jewish) that have my country in shackles. Iran, Syria, and Russia must be menaced is the new political commandment without which one can’t achieve any visability in the media or in politics. You may have picked on the wrong enemy when it comes to Russia though. They are not shackled any more after Gorby and Yelsin. Putin keeps his own council but he will not be cowed by your media bullies. Personally I think the Internet will erode the ability of some clique to control the feeling of people and the end game result may not be to your liking. For now I have nobody to vote for in either party, but people hate the media and the political parties, and somehow this pressure cooker will blow in some fashion.

  190. geokat62 says:
    @Sam Shama

    While all human life is sacrosanct, not all human groups have equal or any capability, for that matter, to organise modern, prosperous states.

    Care to list which human groups fall in this category. Based on your comment, one can infer that blacks (South Africa) and Arabs (Palestinians) are to be included in this list. But are there any others?

    btw – care to elaborate on what you hope to achieve:

    I hope to achieve more, much more, than an exercise in faculty lounge revolution.

    Oh, and you can respond to me once again via Alexander if you like.

  191. geokat62 says:
    @Sam Shama

    Levy is a “courageous” and moral human. Yet he has very little to show in the way of achievements.

    So much material to work with in your previous post that I don’t know where to begin!

    So in your books, achievements (like playing multiple musical instruments, speaking several languages, and presumably having an IQ that is +7σ above the mean) are to be counted above human life itself? You have got things all backwards. Gideon Levy is a true hero because he values every human life equally and is prepared to die for his convictions. I could care less if he speaks three or four languages, plays two or three instruments, or has a 204 IQ. In my books, these things count for naught if the individual also believes that not all human groups have the wherewithal to organize “modern, prosperous states.”

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  192. geokat62 says:

    The right of return (whether it is a 2SS or 1SS) will have the effect of dousing the country with bilge water. (emphasis added)

    Spoken like someone who truly believes in the equal value of all human life!

  193. geokat62 says:
    @Sam Shama

    … the “story” in “history” in not written with the raw material of morality. Far from it: it is written with the raw material provided by the dominant economic powers… The BDS movement will not achieve much success…

    Your argument against the success of the BDS movement has a lot in common with that of Prof. Finkelstein. Here’s my criticism with his (and your) line of reasoning:

    I didn’t get the opportunity to respond to his response but if I had, I would have simply said that your response sounded like a paean to political expediency! While it’s true there is little support for the 1SS today, this doesn’t mean it will always remain so. How politically viable did a liberated South Africa, a Jewish Homeland, an independent America, the abolition of slavery appear in the early stages of their development?

    But what you fail to recognize is something the great Nelson Mandela once said: “It always seems impossible until its done.”

    That’s why I still call upon you to do the right thing and endorse BDS.

  194. Sam Shama says:
    @geokat62

    I wasn’t paying too much attention in my last post. Sorry I was multi-tasking. So here is my direct response:

    Care to list which human groups fall in this category. Based on your comment, one can infer that blacks (South Africa) and Arabs (Palestinians) are to be included in this list. But are there any others?

    Get the IQ stats from any number of sources (the HBD community at UR can help you. Its a very nice panel data. Run a multi-country simple model or a more involved one, like a cross section time series logit model with fat tails. I get the sense that you are an econometrician). The conclusions are inescapable.

    btw – care to elaborate on what you hope to achieve:

    What I hope to achieve, candidly speaking, I have just started thinking about. The end goal most likely, is similar to yours. First, to stop as quickly as possible the de-humanisation of Palestinians. Second, try to get a better sense of where and how to apply effective leverage. Third, in my own way engage leaders in the jewish organisations and understand where their fulcra of balances lie. Work to be done. Not everyone has to hoist a placard, you know.

    So in your books, achievements (like playing multiple musical instruments, speaking several languages, and presumably having an IQ that is +7σ above the mean) are to be counted above human life itself?

    I said nothing of the sort. In fact I said the opposite. All human life is sacrosanct, but that does not translate to equal capabilities. It is NOT a statement made in arrogance.

    In my books, these things count for naught if the individual also believes that not all human groups have the wherewithal to organize “modern, prosperous states.”

    You have always sounded like a very nice person, as has @annamarina. As is Levy. I believe in helping my fellow humans organise properly to the extent I can. There are some people, in my own observation, much more capable than I am, in various fields of human achievement and I actively seek their involvement. The same is truer at group levels. It has nothing to do with what one “believes”. It just happens to be the case for whatever evolutionary cascades. Of course I certainly believe that given initial endowments, individual achievements are a function of grit and efficiency.

    • Replies: @annamaria
    , @geokat62
  195. @alexander

    In short…… The “War on Terror” is born !
    And of course, here we are today…..
    Does this “sequencing”seem to ring true for you Mr Shama and Anamarina ? !
    it makes a lot of sense to me !

    That’s because you are woefully ill-read and ill-informed.

    Benzion Netanyahu and Benjamin Netanyahu dreamed up the Global War on Terror and rolled it out in a conference in Jerusalem, July 1979. George H W Bush was a participant in the conference. So were a number of US neocons who became cheerleaders for the 1991 invasion of Iraq and its seamless completion in the 2003 destruction of what was left of that once-proud nation.

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    Sam Shama says: Next New Comment
    August 2, 2015 at 3:38 pm GMT • 400 Words
    @alexander
    Hi Alexander,
    I would have to agree with you on the sequence of events, exactly as you state. The interests of certain disparate groups aligned and here we are.

    I changed my mind.

    You’re not merely “ill-informed.”
    If Sam the Sham is your standard for validity it marks you as willfully ignorant.
    and stupid.

  196. Sam Shama says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Instead of your rambling 3000 word post to @alexander in the other forum, you might simply wish to say that:

    1. You hate Jewish people venomously.
    2. You deny that the Holocaust ever took place.
    3. You are a Nazi, deeply in awe of Adolf Hitler.
    4. Every other consideration is secondary in your book

    I have no doubt that whatever you are trying to achieve will fail miserably, with a basic position like the preceding.
    Don’t call anyone stupid without standing in front of a mirror.

  197. @Sam Shama

    Cutting through the fog with bright lights and sound facts really scares you, eh Sam?

    You feel compelled to reduce solid facts to “hates Jews, denies holocaust … ora pro nobis.”
    This is done in order to avoid addressing the facts, because you can’t refute them; they are solid.

    Likewise with Alexandra’s belief that she has discovered a clew, a serendipitous sequence of events after which “the war on terror was born exclamation mark.”

    But the war on terror was a planned pregnancy, with a gestation of at least 22 years for this particular Mossad-impregnated WTC-birthed bastard.
    It was no accident. No magical “sequence of events.” Alexandra needs to confront that reality. Your attempt to encourage Alexandra in her delusion is like a red flag indicating you are a protector of the plot.

    It may catch you aback to know that I agree with you and disagree with geokat62: BDS will never achieve anything significant. It’s main function is to make activists feel good and keep them distracted from the real business of exposing and terminating the evil of the zionist project.
    (At very least, as van stated, zionist influence over US foreign and domestic policy must be removed. It is the duty of the American people to do so, and their right to do so with extreme prejudice if necessary. BDS is not the tool for that task.)

    Cutting the legs out from under the holocaust narrative and exposing the full horror of the lies and crimes it masks — that will bring down zionism. We know this from the way Jews went ape-s&%t when the Islamic Republic of Iran hosted a conference to discuss the holocaust. We know this from the walls Israel-firsters — and, to be sure, their American accomplices, and I don’t mean the Christian zionist clowns that Yechial Eckstein keeps stage left like a Greek chorus.

    The question is whether world Jewry has it in them to organize a different state, one dedicated to the equal rights of- and equal justice for- all its citizens.

    In that regard, and obviously, neither Abba Eban nor Ariel Sharon offer a persuasive example.

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  198. @SolontoCroesus

    Just gathered this important data:

    Francis Boyle mentioned that Fouad Ajami, neocondom’s token Arab and supporter of Sam Huntington’s thesis that Iraq Must Be Fragmented, was a key advisor to the George H W Bush team as they made the decision to invade Iraq in 1990-91.

    Prior to this the only direct neocon connection I had seen was the fact that Dennis Ross was a key advisor to James Baker, who was in turn Bush’s closest advisor.

    Dr. Boyle also had some interesting things to say about Leo Strauss.

  199. annamaria says:
    @Sam Shama

    You are correct, “individual achievements are a function of grit and efficiency.” But the humans have a habit of evaluating the achievements. Making soap from human body fat and using mass graves make the examples of certain efficiency. But this they are an insult to human decency. So the efficiency and grit are not enough.
    “The right of return (whether it is a 2SS or 1SS) will have the effect of dousing the country [Israel] with bilge water.” You mean that the descendants of the native population, these unwashed masses, cannot be compared to the former Soviets that have been having a wide-open door to Israel for decades, even if the majority of the newcomers were economic emigres with no religious inclinations, suspect ethnicity, and no (zero) familial roots in the Middle East?
    There are the brave and idealistic souls that put their lives on line for creation of the State of Israel, including terrorists acts (Uri Avnery is such noble soul). But then look at their bitterness towards the current crop of Israelis and the rabid policies of Knesset. The apparent inhuman if not criminal actions by the Israelis at all levels (from Knesset to the settlers) have been justified by tribalists as a response to existential threat. But this threat is even stronger for the native Palestinians, for Iraqis, for Iranians… If it is OK for Israelis to be inhuman in their cruelty to others, then why it is not acceptable for others to be inhuman towards Israel? Or this is a smart trick to maintain the useful anti-semitism?
    By the way, what is the difference in IQ between the newcomers to Israel and the progeny of natives? Unlike the young dwellers on the occupied territories, which are prohibited from traveling abroad to lear at universities, the Israeli youth can go anywhere anytime. This in addition to bombings and humiliation, Israel practices dumbing down the best and brightest in Palestine. Nothing to be proud about.
    Here is some food for thoughts about the roots of anti-semitism in Europe

    http://thesaker.is/frances-crif-run-regime-has-unleashed-a-vicious-persecutions-campaign-against-dissidents/

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  200. @van

    This is happening in France.
    How soon before it comes to USA?

    (w/ thanks to Annamarina)

    France’s CRIF-run regime has unleashed a vicious persecutions campaign against dissidents, by The Saker

    The French Zionist Lobby has now completely broken cover and is now engaged in a campaign of persecutions against those few who dare openly challenge its influence in France. All parties have been given an ultimatum: submit or be destroyed. The level and nastiness of the propaganda on French TV is now worse than anything I have seen in the USA or Soviet Russia. . . .

    It is important to keep in mind that the French Zionist Lobby is even more powerful and more arrogant, in a uniquely “in our face” kind of attitude, than, say, AIPAC in the USA. The French CRIF – a Likud controlled outfit – is basically in full control of the three branches of government and the French media. To even mention that fact is a death sentence for the career of any politician, author or journalist. Even the National Front has now caved in and made a pretty clear, if futile, attempt at showing a total subservience to this Zionist Lobby (Marine Le Pen’s betrayal of her father).

  201. Sam Shama says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Cutting through the fog with bright lights and sound facts really scares you, eh Sam?

    Cutting through the fog is what I did to your 3000 word hallucination essentially. To go through them, is to engage in scatology, as I may have pointed out in the past. Holocaust denial is your chronic condition and its quite clear you want it to be communicable. Fortunately there are effective vaccines.

    But the war on terror was a planned pregnancy, with a gestation of at least 22 years for this particular Mossad-impregnated WTC-birthed bastard.
    It was no accident. No magical “sequence of events.”

    So you are in fact a CT’ist who believes that the U.S. government with the involvement of Mossad, killed thousands of it’s own citizens. Got it. Let’s set aside the debunking this theory has received. Have you ever had the occasion to study Uncertainty? In order for this paranoid fantasy to have taken place in the manner you suggest, the implication is that GWB, B&B N’Yahu would had to have been endowed with perfect foresight and control of elections in the two countries. In the intervening period, Bibi was almost removed from the Israeli political scene. Twice.
    GWB, most likely was thinking about the next round of golf and the next seasons for the quail hunt. Mostly, that is.


    Alexandra needs to confront that reality.
    Your attempt to encourage Alexandra in her delusion is like a red flag indicating you are a protector of the plot.

    It may catch you aback to know that I agree with you and disagree with geokat62: BDS will never achieve anything significant. It’s main function is to make activists feel good and keep them distracted from the real business of exposing and terminating the evil of the zionist project.

    Why do you feel the need to speculate that @alexander is an “SJW girl” and instantly adopt this undisguised paternalistic tone? The red flags that you might be seeing are likely the result of excessive philosophising without the benefit of absorption. I used to be agnostic about Bibi, many years in the past, but realised in short order that he is a creature very limited in intelligence but endowed with the silver tongue, which moves the usual crowd, but not thinking persons. So therefore if I lent unwavering support to this omniscient Bibi, equipped as he was with the divining rod, should I be looking to undermine his efforts just now?

    Second, it does catch me aback, but not for the reasons you think. Its similar to what I explained in the preceding paragraph. People who wish to protect their creations of distraction, do not point out the futility of the same.

    There is no “narrative” of the Holocaust. My offer to fund your visit to the Yad Vashem still stands (I’ll send you cash at a P.O. box and trust you to keep your side of the deal). Its personally painful for me. And Deir Yassin was a horrible crime. More criminality is occurring in the WB now.

    Ariel Sharon was using the settler movement as strategic chess pieces to negotiate with the Arab governments. He made a 180 degrees turn out of Gaza when he got the signal that it was time to start acting on the 2SS. It was going to happen. He went into a coma. Rabin died trying the very same, and Leah Rabin openly accused Bibi of inciting the murder.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  202. alexander says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Mr Croesus,

    I have no problem with your suggestion that Mr Netanyahu rolled out the idea of the “global war on terror in 1979″….it might have been fulminating in the minds Jewish extremists many years before that..

    No doubt especially after copiously studying the transformation that took place in Weimar Germany after the burning of the Reichtag in 1933…and the subsequent flowering of Nazism just prior to WWII…

    Moving a nation towards a “war of aggression” footing usually needs a powerful catalyst…and 9-11 fit the bill !

    .I am discussing the point at which “Americans” are”initiated” into the idea as a matter of national policy and a matter of national consciousness. That was certainly my point, but I guess that one just flew over your head !

    Oh but wait, I forget, according to your historical truth…. the Reichstag fire….along with the Reichstag fire decree… and the transformation of Weimar Germany into Nazi Germany never really happened either…Thats also Zionist propaganda…….
    or someones propaganda…

    Right Mr Croesus?

  203. Art says:
    @Sam Shama

    204: “I am an American citizen.”

    Sorry Sammie, but you are not an American – you may reside here, but your heart, soul, and mind are in Israel. How sad for you. You are a Little Jew who pines for a pre 1967 Israel that can NOT happen. Your Big Jews will not let that happen – in the Jewish tradition and history, the cream is pushed to the bottom and the crap rises. In the Jew tradition greed for money and power is celebrated – not honesty.

    One of the greatest mistakes in history is the stealing of land to create the State of Israel. After that happened, every day the ME’s condition has gone downhill – now it is spreading all over the world. Tomorrow it will be worse. Only a fool hopes for a benign Israel.

    Some day Sammie, with all your 204 points of brilliance, maybe you will find the courage to be honest about the negative side of your Jewness – Art

    p.s. You putzhead PM – Netanyahu – has all of a sudden found religion and condemns the very people he has promoted, that did the burring to death of that Palestinian baby.

    p.s. Really, is there one decent human being in the whole world that believes him? You Little Jews have no credibility because of your Big Jews.

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  204. Sam Shama says:
    @annamaria

    There are many things in your posts that I instinctively agree with. ‘dousing with bilge water’ was a metaphor to describe what I might expect to happen to the economy of the country, already under strain for water resources, if 7 million more immigrants under RoR were to be allowed in. I am also opposed to any further immigration of killers from Russia. Palestinian youth should be allowed to travel and attend any university of their choice inside Israel or internationally. This has to happen. Its of no benefit to Israel to have an uneducated population. I am deeply opposed to the most recent law passed by the Knesset on nationality. In my opinion it is unnecessary and just another example of BN’s lack of vision. I cannot think of another PM from the past who would have thought it necessary.

    I have many matters to think about, all having to do with how to effectively add my efforts to dismantle the situation in the WB and Gaza.

    Thanks for the link, I will read it soon.

  205. @Sam Shama

    you said earlier that you have “no need to flatter yourself.”

    Yet you engage in that behavior.

    you said

    1. You hate Jewish people venomously.

    you’re not worth my hate. My soul and character cannot bought at so low a price.

    Perhaps my references and comments to Alexandra were paternalistic.

    recall the proverb:

    “He who knows not and knows not he knows not: he is a fool – shun him.
    He who knows not and knows he knows not: he is ignorant – teach him.
    He who knows and knows not he knows: he is asleep – wake him.
    He who knows and knows he knows: he is wise – follow him.”

    I thought Alexandra was teachable/wakeable.
    Based on subsequent information I have changed my mind.
    He/she is a fool.

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  206. Sam Shama says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Needs to flatter ourselves

    I was puzzled, when you remarked “Don’t flatter yourself”, and I asked several readers, what I could have possibly written in comment #133, that might be construed as self-flattery. I, or any others could not find any.

    It dawned on me afterwards (and I forgot about the issue until now), that you thought I was referencing you in the comment below! Lol!

    http://www.unz.com/article/israels-100-million-gamble/#comment-1033481

    I thought “Now here is a chap, so engrossed with his own philosophising, that he cannot fathom there are many others capable of content and analysis. His material I never thought of as content, rather as rubbish”.

    Talk about self-flattery!

  207. Sam Shama says:
    @Art

    Art said:

    Some day Sammie, with all your 204 points of brilliance, maybe you will find the courage to be honest about the negative side of your Jewness – Art

    Do you mean like Yehoshua ben Yosef?

    Is that why you have kept him bolted on the wall for 2015 years? (Think he is looking for a pair of bolt cutters!)

    • Replies: @Art
  208. Art says:
    @Sam Shama

    204: “Do you mean like Yehoshua ben Yosef?”

    Hey Sammie —– really – Yehoshua ben Yosef –– do not have a clue — sorry Little Jew, I do not know Jew history – never will. Why would I want to know the history of a bunch of losses?

    You Jews have been thrown out of every Euro nation for two thousand years. You lived stable lives in Arab cultures – they where good you – but you Jews hate them with a passion – what ingratitude (yes – another black mark character flaw for you Jews). You Little Jews lived well in Germany – until the Big Jew bankers destroyed the country after WWI. Now you Big Jews are totally destroying America and its culture. You know Little Jew, crippling America is a major bad for the whole world.

    The problem for you Little Jews is where are going to go when the whole world has had enough of you’ll? Not to worry – your Big Jews will be fine –they always are.

    It would be good if you expended a brain cell or two on the problem – good luck – Art

    • Replies: @RobinG
    , @SolontoCroesus
  209. RobinG says:
    @Art

    Dude,

    I hope you grow out of this. (By your writing, I’m guessing you’re about 11. Also, zero analytic skills, i.e. Jesus, son of Joseph, nailed to cross since …) You really add nothing to the discussion, look foolish, and serve only to degrade the forum.

    Why not point out that perpetuating the myth of a righteous pre-1967 Israel is delusional. All those young kibbutzim, sheltered from the truth, believing their own propaganda that they invented Jaffa oranges.

    Tell him that Nakba denial is equivalent to Holocaust denial.

    • Replies: @alexander
  210. geokat62 says:
    @Sam Shama

    The end goal most likely, is similar to yours. First, to stop as quickly as possible the de-humanisation of Palestinians.

    I must be missing something. I thought the only way “to stop quickly as possible the de-humanization of the Palestinians” was to liberate them by ending the occupation. It seems you have another solution. Care to share?

  211. @Art

    Yehoshua ben Yosef aka Jesus son of Joseph

    Sam just said to Christians — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piss_Christ

    • Replies: @geokat62
  212. alexander says:
    @RobinG

    ” Tell him that Nakba denial is equivalent to Holocaust denial”

    Because it is !

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  213. geokat62 says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    I wonder whether his close evangelical friend and his family back in Texas will take any offense.

    But I almost forgot that just as “the conversion to Christianity/ Rapture etc. can be approached in a very interesting way,” perhaps the same could be said about this topic.

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  214. Sam Shama says:
    @alexander

    also @annamarina @Robin, @Geokat62
    Shall we talk about what happened prior to 1967? (I have to keep this short)

    (before we start, small aside, just look at comment #225, SolontoCroesus, who understands my joke perfectly well, tries to recruit the cognitively disabled in his cause, with an inflammatory redirection)

    First, I do not dispute “Al Naqba”.

    My question to all of you is how far back in history do we wish to step back? Go back far enough, much prior to Anno Diocletiani or Anno Domini etc., and you may have already pondered and realised, that geographic boundaries, throughout our saga, a part of the Human Condition, are the creations of the winning side. No value judgements. I have said as much in comment #106 http://www.unz.com/article/israels-100-million-gamble/#comment-1033481 . If you insisted on value judgements or perhaps the application of universal jurisprudence driven by antiquarian texts and a fixed idée morale, you would find yourself in an unhappy position……..

    So let us set aside the question of who committed the original sin.

    If you insisted on “modern law”, specifically as it applies to the current topic, I think it is fair to say that the sine qua non is the Balfour Declaration, followed thereafter by the U.N. mandate.

    Yes I am deeply aware of the failings and shortcomings of the above.

    I have noted earlier that I have started thinking about this relatively recently, and my thoughts thus far, incline me to work on a model that is based on humanity but constrained by pragmatism.

    Tentatively speaking, it has to be a 1SS. I think the 2SS is dead.

    All Palestinians should be invested with full citizenship with the unqualified and unlimited protections, benefits and duties that it confers.

    Palestinians should be afforded the same housing access and benefits available to the settlers in the WB, and indeed anywhere in Israel inside the Green Line.

    The IDF should be removed from the WB in a phased manner within 6 months, to be replaced by normal civilian police force that reflects the ethnicity of the locality.

    All immigration,( including those who claim the right of return), at this point, should be based on a purely economic model, with resource sustainability being of utmost importance. Russians are not exogenous to this requirement.

    Much more thinking to be done……but the basics I think are correct.

    Appreciate your thoughts

  215. geokat62 says:
    @Sam Shama

    Tentatively speaking, it has to be a 1SS. I think the 2SS is dead.

    I have to commend your honesty in this regard. But having made this brave declaration, why do you insist on using the term “Palestinian,” thereafter? Are you suggesting that the people of I/P will not have equality under the law? What kind of political system are you proposing? You need to put more meat on those bones.

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  216. @Sam Shama

    before we start, small aside, just look at comment #225, SolontoCroesus, who understands my joke perfectly well, tries to recruit the cognitively disabled in his cause, with an inflammatory redirection)

    some of us do not consider Jesus something to joke about.

    I found your “joke” offensive, but not a-typical from you lot.

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  217. Sam Shama says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    some of us do not consider Jesus something to joke about.

    Apparently not. However we Jews frequently make fun of each other (Yehoshua B’ Yosef Al Natseret, won’t mind, trust me). We are also accustomed to verbal filth flung in our direction by the various.

  218. Sam Shama says:
    @geokat62

    Palestinian or Israeli Arab….take your pick. I am not interested in pedantry

    • Replies: @geokat62
  219. geokat62 says:
    @Sam Shama

    I wasn’t being pedantic. I wanted to get a better understanding of some of the constraints in your model:

    … model that is based on humanity but constrained by pragmatism. (emphasis added)

    To be clear, are you proposing a model in which both Jews and Palestinians have equality under the law? If so, there is no need to say anything more. If not, what are some of the more salient constraints you have in mind?

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  220. Sam Shama says:
    @geokat62

    To be clear, are you proposing a model in which both Jews and Palestinians have equality under the law?

    that is an unqualified affirmative.

    I said this:

    All Palestinians should be invested with full citizenship with the unqualified and unlimited protections, benefits and duties that it confers.

    the pragmatism primarily applies to immigration and resource economics. Plus security movements of IDF withdrawal from civilian areas. I am completely sure that the IDF will agree with this. They were not trained to police a civilian population.

    • Replies: @geokat62
    , @Art
  221. geokat62 says:
    @Sam Shama

    …that is an unqualified affirmative.

    But what about the demographic time bomb that would supposedly destroy the Jewish character of the state… does this not concern you? Is this not the cornerstone of Zionism?

    • Replies: @geokat62
  222. who owns the military in this proposal? Who owns the central bank?

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  223. Art says:
    @Sam Shama

    “All Palestinians should be invested with full citizenship with the unqualified and unlimited protections, benefits and duties that it confers.”

    Well Sam – Bravo – Bravo!

    Maybe there is hope for you Little Jews – will you find your collective hind legs and stand up to the Big Jews?

    Here’s hoping – Art

  224. Art says:
    @Sam Shama

    Sam,

    Last night for three hours, I watched Medea Benjamin the founder of Code Pink on Cspan2. What a fine woman, what a fine human being, what a fine JEW.

    She is 100% anti-war anti-military and pro-peace. She loves Israel but hates its hard line Zionist leadership.

    Do you call her a self-hating Jew – Tell us – Art

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  225. @Sam Shama

    1. You hate Jewish people venomously.

    The Jews are NOT a “people”, at least not in the same sense as Lithuanians or Circassians or Vietnamese are “people”s.

    What we call Jewry is a strange hybrid of an intergenerational cult (with a persecution complex and OCD about exacting vengence on its self-created enemies) and an organized crime syndicate.

    Judaism is NOT a religion, at least not in the same sense as Christianity or Buddhism or Shinto or Hellenism are religions.

    What we call Judaism is more like a sociobiologist’s advice to an aspiring obligate parasite on how to maximize its own fitness at the expense of its hosts.

    2. You deny that the Holocaust ever took place.

    Under English Common Law, the burden of proof lies on he who affirms rather than he who denies. So where’s yours proof?

    What does the Holocaust refer to exactly, by the way?

    3. You are a Nazi, deeply in awe of Adolf Hitler.

    And a fascist, White supremacist, racist, misogynist, Jew-hater***, domestic terrorist, conspiracy theorist, and a homophobe to boot.

    4. Every other consideration is secondary in your book

    White blood cells are concerned with defense of the organism from harmful aliens, they don’t give flying F about production of insulin or relaying of neural impulses. Every healthy organism has and ought to have them; the ones that don’t eventually fall victim to parasitism.

    *** I find this word particularly funny, as it implies that Goyim are morally obliged to love The Jew, inspite of, or even because of Jewish conduct among them.

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  226. Sam Shama says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Military: The State.

    The CB is an independent apolitical institution, charged with maintaining price stability, conducting monetary policy, issuance of currency and aiding the government in its economic policy. It also formulates policy to minimise economic gaps. No reason to change this, unless you have other thoughts.

    • Replies: @Art
  227. Sam Shama says:
    @Words Like Mine Led To Auschwitz

    And a fascist, White supremacist, racist, misogynist, Jew-hater***, domestic terrorist, conspiracy theorist, and a homophobe to boot.

    With those admitted qualities, (especially the emphasised pair), one would have to conclude, that the other species of the animal kingdom ought to exercise utmost caution in your presence, during the rest of your natural life.

    It further greatly reduces the probability of your genetic material being passed on to the next generation. Quite considerate of you.

  228. Art says:
    @Sam Shama

    “The CB is an independent apolitical institution”

    Sammie Sammie – “apolitical” – why has the Federal Reserve been run by Jews for the last 30 years? That has to be political.

    Alan “Bubbles” Greenspan has been a total failure producing bubble after bubble – in the process transferring America’s wealth to Big Jews.

    Little Jew your Big Jews have hurt America in many ways.

    Art

  229. @Sam Shama

    I do notice the feigned incomprehension of sarcasm and pretension of innocence.

    Very Jewish of yours.

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  230. Sam Shama says:
    @Words Like Mine Led To Auschwitz

    I do notice the feigned incomprehension of sarcasm and pretension of innocence.

    What I notice is the soft back-pedalling of a Freudian slip of the truth.

    Very Calvinistic on your part

  231. geokat62 says:
    @geokat62

    Perhaps the question was a bit too personal, hence the lack of response.

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  232. Sam Shama says:
    @geokat62

    It is without a doubt the hardest question. It is the issue over which there will be the greatest disagreement. One the one hand I feel it ought not to be a concern, since we have always existed as minorities (with bad repercussions at times). OTOH if Israel can pull it off successfully as a secular democracy, it will surely lead to a sea of change in the ME, including a complete dismantling of many repressive monarchies in the region (demonstration effect that a secular democracy is thriving next door) , especially the KSA, which (believe it or not, precisely for that reason, will do everything in its power to stop Israel from moving in that direction).

    Let me know your thoughts. I would appreciate honest feedback and co-operation between people of goodwill (I have been utterly honest)

  233. Sam Shama says:
    @Art

    I certainly do not call Medea Benjamin “a self hating Jew”. I share her passion for peace in the ME. I resent the fact that Netanyahu and faction captured power in Israel., through fear-mongering. An useful approach that I am considering, is to influence to the extent of my abilities, Rabbis and other leaders to change their blind support of AIPAC and other such organisations. That is a start.

    • Replies: @Art
  234. Art says:
    @Sam Shama

    “I certainly do not call Medea Benjamin “a self hating Jew”

    Thanks Sam — Art

  235. geokat62 says:
    @Sam Shama

    Thank-you for responding, Sam. First off, I’d like to apologize for accusing you of trying to sabotage UR. Given your views on I/P, I can say that I had completely misjudged you. I think you could forgive me for having my suspicions that you may have been assigned the task of challenging those of us who would like to see an end to the suffering in the ME.

    Finally, it was indeed a pleasure debating with a formidable Balliolite.

    I wish you all the best in your efforts to bring about the change you’ve articulated to the extent you can.

    Best regards

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  236. @Sam Shama

    Sharon Aide Dov Weisglass:

    “The significance of the disengagement plan is the freezing of the peace process, and when you freeze that process, you prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state, and you prevent a discussion on the refugees, the borders and Jerusalem. Effectively, this whole package called the Palestinian state, with all that it entails, has been removed indefinitely from our agenda. And all this with authority and permission. All with a presidential blessing and the ratification of both houses of Congress. That is exactly what happened. You know, the term `peace process’ is a bundle of concepts and commitments. The peace process is the establishment of a Palestinian state with all the security risks that entails. The peace process is the evacuation of settlements, it’s the return of refugees, it’s the partition of Jerusalem. And all that has now been frozen…. what I effectively agreed to with the Americans was that part of the settlements would not be dealt with at all, and the rest will not be dealt with until the Palestinians turn into Finns. That is the significance of what we did.”

    http://mondoweiss.net/2015/08/pipedream-israel-settlers#sthash.pAP9pFbB.dpuf

  237. @Sam Shama

    OTOH if Israel can pull it off successfully as a secular democracy, it will surely lead to a sea of change in the ME, including a complete dismantling of many repressive monarchies in the region (demonstration effect that a secular democracy is thriving next door) , especially the KSA, which (believe it or not, precisely for that reason, will do everything in its power to stop Israel from moving in that direction).

    The image this statement conjures is of a terrible-twos-toddler howling in his crib that grandfather should do things his way because he knows best.

    First of all, to change Israel to a secular democracy would require doing exactly what Ahmadinejad said would happen: cause the “zionist entity (ideology) to disappear from the pages of time.”
    Can the Palestinians in Gaza survive that long in their prison camp?

    Second, I see in this statement the same delusion that afflicts the exceptionalists in the USA, the notion that we have the right way to do things; our right way is such a wonderfully good example that if you only imitate us you will be just as wildly successful as we are — or rather, as you say, as successful as we will be if only we can entirely change the fundaments of our state.

    Third, the facts on the ground, as Hillary Mann Leverett has been arguing for years, are that the Islamic Republic of Iran is an already existing successful Islamic republic — a representative government that is accountable to its citizens.

    Stephen Kinzer has written that Iran’s is the most vibrant representative polity in the region, and the Obama administration acknowledges that the Islamic Republic of Iran is the most stable state in the region.

    As Yossi Alpher revealed in several interviews recently, “many Israelis” maintain the belief that they are “blood brothers” and rightful heirs to the Persian empire after all, didn’t we just celebrate Purim? — as well as the ancient empires of Ethiopia and Egypt; Israelis intensely believe this; it goes to the heart of the Israeli demand for “recognition.”

    Alpher conceded that no one else in the region embraces Eastern European Jews as their long-lost brothers; Iran and Egypt are realists; they don’t share zionism’s ‘romantic’ conceit; they see zionists as enfant terrible Eastern European Jews — precisely what they are.

    The conceit that Alpher describes added to the vision that Sam Shama pipe dreams is delusion X two: it’s bitter to accept but the facts are that Jews in the Middle East never had a sustained, successful, self-supporting political arrangement in the real world — not the mythical world — that the Persians and Egyptians experienced and are heirs to.

    What is more, the Jewish zionists and their leaders that migrated to Palestine in the 20th century are predominantly from Eastern Europe, from Poland, Russia, Lithuania, etc., those regions where Jews were least successful in establishing self-government and/or in getting along with the natives of the regions where they dwelt. There’s a conversation taking place on Phil Giraldi’s most recent article, “War Inside the Beltway,” about the difficult relationship Jews had with Poles, with whom Jews dwelt for over half-a-millenia. In a Teaching Company history of the Jewish people, Isaiah Gaffney observed that as the industrial revolution dawned, those states most able to take benefit had well-developed political structures; Germany and England had them and became highly successful industrialized economies; Poland did not and was a serious laggard, creating tensions within the (Russo)-Polish polity and between Poland and its neighbors.

    In contrast, USA founders had the example of centuries of British political innovation and development toward representative government, and they “plundered history”, studying the classical thinkers from the Graeco-Roman tradition, and the Enlightenment thinkers of the Christian traditions. As Alpher concedes, David Ben Gurion, who laid the foundation for the Israel that we see today, relied on Hebrew scripture for his vision of governance and relations with neighbors.

    It’s one of history’s great tragedies that the British who gave Jews their start in Palestine, the Balfours and Lloyd Georges, were some of the British empire’s least attractive and thoughtful figures; and that the Americans who became Israel’s “superpower ally” were similarly the least enlightened of American thinkers and leaders and instead of “training up the child Israel in the way that he should grow,” allowed the mewling puking infant to call the shots and subverted their mature values to the toddler’s tantrums.

    How to resolve it when the toddler has been given the keys to the world’s most lethal arsenal and is still in full-tantrum mode?

    Your suggestions for ‘giving’ Palestinians their rights are fine as far as they go, Sam; a well-intentioned, even heartfelt effort.

    But before anything, the lethal toys must be removed from the toddler, and he needs to come under the tutelage of mature leaders. The dream is over; it’s time to wake up and grow up. Israel has not matured properly.

    For its part, the United States has provided the worst kind of over-indulgent, evil-enabling parenting/leadership; it has abandoned and neglected its genuine responsibilities.

    The United States has demonstrated that it does not understand the complexities of Middle Eastern – Semitic dynamics and is incapable of resisting what Theodor Herzl called the Jewish people’s “terrible wealth.” The USA itself needs reform before it can take on the role of providing an example to Israel on how to become a justly-funcitoning representative state.

    The Islamic Republic of Iran has the historic legacy of the most just empire in history; a long modern history of tending toward representative governance; and the demonstrated ability to blend secular government with a religious tradition. The Islamic Republic of Iran has been tested and forged in war and in the sustained oppression from the western “democracies” and remained stable while retaining its revolutionary vision as it evolves and develops “a more perfect union.”

    After first deconstructing the zionist vision of somehow-Semitic-Eastern European Jews attempting to recreate the Hebrew mythos for itself as well as the exemplar of the west in the East, Israel would demonstrate wisdom were it to choose to model the Islamic Republic of Iran in reconstructing itself as Israel, one state for all its diverse people.

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  238. Sam Shama says:
    @geokat62

    Pleasure was all mine. Debating the clever, has always been an indulgence I have permitted myself whenever an opportunity was on offer. Therefore, what started as an exercise in the very same, turned rather burdensome, bordering on casuistry at times, to one thus inclined to admit. For, the side I was a protagonist of (by default perhaps), required often, a total suspension of morality, a discomfort I was unwilling to suffer under the synthetic construct of ‘a debate’.

    In this connection, I should like to express my admiration for Phil Giraldi and Ron Unz, both of whom tolerated my presence, and did indeed not impose a ban, in spite of a rather petulant response on my part to Ron. That takes a great deal of integrity.

    Off I go forthwith, to work on my goals and hope to visit these important and delightful pages in the near future. (After I read S2C recent posts carefully)

    best regards.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  239. geokat62 says:
    @Sam Shama

    For, the side I was a protagonist of (by default perhaps), required often, a total suspension of morality, a discomfort I was unwilling to suffer under the synthetic construct of ‘a debate’.

    Sam, these words are extremely important and I want to thank-you for writing them.

  240. Sam Shama says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    The image this statement conjures is of a terrible-twos-toddler howling in his crib that grandfather should do things his way because he knows best.

    I understand what you concluded from my statement “OTOH…if Israel managed to successfully pull -off…..” etc. I had in mind mostly the KSA and certainly not Iran. No one, other than some deluded, ultra arabophile could consider that cruel, rapacious “Royal Arrangement”, anything but ripe for dismantlement: by the efforts of its own people, not through the intervention of a foreign power.

    First of all, to change Israel to a secular democracy would require doing exactly what Ahmadinejad said would happen: cause the “zionist entity (ideology) to disappear from the pages of time.”

    I am not very familiar with what Ahmedinejad said in the past, or Khamenei has said throughout, without looking at farsi texts of their positions (I have persian-jewish family members). I have made myself clear, that what I grew up to understand as Zionism is dead, replaced by something I consider the Israeli version of the Taliban.

    Second, I see in this statement the same delusion that afflicts the exceptionalists in the USA, the notion that we have the right way to do things; our right way is such a wonderfully good example that if you only imitate us you will be just as wildly successful as we are — or rather, as you say, as successful as we will be if only we can entirely change the fundaments of our state.

    Well I consider the organisation of markets and economies according to the U.S. model (with its warts), to be the best the world has seen. It does have certain deleterious social effects of producing Inequality (but that is a call to change tax laws and regulation). For those who wish to adopt adaptive versions of our model, will do so without much prompting (and I am certainly not advocating wholesale uprooting of traditional commerce practised in the ME). The fact remains that in a globally connected world, the trend is to choose the western model.

    As Yossi Alpher revealed in several interviews recently, “many Israelis” maintain the belief that they are “blood brothers” and rightful heirs to the Persian empire after all, didn’t we just celebrate Purim? — as well as the ancient empires of Ethiopia and Egypt; Israelis intensely believe this; it goes to the heart of the Israeli demand for “recognition.

    This is Yossi Alpher engaging in fanciful flights of imagination. All Israelis (by which I mean all in Israel proper sans a portion of the demented slavic illegals, Bibi and his coterie) celebrate Purim as an occasion to dress up (as in Halloween), eat sweets and Hummous!

    It’s one of history’s great tragedies that the British who gave Jews their start in Palestine, the Balfours and Lloyd Georges, were some of the British empire’s least attractive and thoughtful figures; and that the Americans who became Israel’s “superpower ally” were similarly the least enlightened of American thinkers and leaders and instead of “training up the child Israel in the way that he should grow,” allowed the mewling puking infant to call the shots and subverted their mature values to the toddler’s tantrums.

    Perhaps a nitpick, but I point out the inconsistency of the highlighted portions. (Also you must mean Truman, LBJ….who else?)

    But before anything, the lethal toys must be removed from the toddler, and he needs to come under the tutelage of mature leaders.

    lethal toys and mature leaders: what is a practical approach to this? I can see no option other than the U.S. to forcefully impose its power to achieve this end. This is a pipe dream, given the role that Israel plays in brokering US arms sales. (However in the end, I believe many seemingly insurmountable “impossibilities” can be rapidly rendered otherwise if the correct leadership in the U.S and Israel coincide. Any suggestions for at least the US?)


    For its part, the United States has provided the worst kind of over-indulgent, evil-enabling parenting/leadership; it has abandoned and neglected its genuine responsibilities.

    I agree.

    The United States has demonstrated that it does not understand the complexities of Middle Eastern – Semitic dynamics and is incapable of resisting what Theodor Herzl called the Jewish people’s “terrible wealth.” The USA itself needs reform before it can take on the role of providing an example to Israel on how to become a justly-funcitoning representative state.

    Ditto. Except the “terrible Wealth” part. A longer discussion of this topic isolated, ought to focus on it true size (as opposed to claims such as “90% of U.S. money!” type of rant), and a clear separation and understanding of the role of the Fed (which apparently hands over bagfuls of simoleon to Jews. I must have missed it, when they called my name)

    The Islamic Republic of Iran has the historic legacy of the most just empire in history; a long modern history of tending toward representative governance; and the demonstrated ability to blend secular government with a religious tradition. The Islamic Republic of Iran has been tested and forged in war and in the sustained oppression from the western “democracies” and remained stable while retaining its revolutionary vision as it evolves and develops “a more perfect union.”

    I am not sure that it can quite claim the spot. I should think the Chinese dynasties starting from the Xia-Shang to the Ch’in-Han to the Ming are the rightful claimants. The Manchu king about 700-800 years back (I think) sent western traders packing, informing them that China “has no need for your tricks and inventions, for we already have better”, and traded only gold for silk.

    After first deconstructing the zionist vision of somehow-Semitic-Eastern European Jews attempting to recreate the Hebrew mythos for itself as well as the exemplar of the west in the East, Israel would demonstrate wisdom were it to choose to model the Islamic Republic of Iran in reconstructing itself as Israel, one state for all its diverse people.

    It may have been a mythos, but a worthy one. Resurrection of the language, its old texts recovered, is to me worthwhile and something to cherish. In this context the current set in power in Tel Aviv, with their exclusionary claim to the Jewish religion and philosophy, are little more than any of the zealots passing through Man’s narrative. They have not understood, e.g., the central point of the Talmudic teachers, who have essentially said “We intend not to teach you a thousand topics, even though they are written in the text, but impart to you the methodology that equips you to teach yourself a thousand topics“.

    One of those topics being, how to adapt to the times!

    P.S. Do you really believe that Iran today has at its central core, the Zoroastrian philosophy? I ask only because I have several Parsi friends from India and they have never mentioned this (doesn’t mean that they would not if queried), and they regularly travel to Yazd.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  241. annamaria says:
    @Sam Shama

    “…if Israel can pull it off successfully as a secular democracy, it will surely lead to a sea of change in the ME, including a complete dismantling of many repressive monarchies in the region.”

    Unfortunately, there is nothing about Israel’s policies promising that would promise anything close to this enchanting picture. The ongoing “sea of change in the ME” (spurred to a large extend by Israel via numerous Zionist-filled think tanks in the US) is totally disastrous, whereas Israel is on the best terms with a kingdom famous for generous support of terrorism. At the same time Israel has been trying to initiate another war of aggression (on the US dime, of course) against an Islamic Republic of Iran.
    “…there is a whole group of Iranian women scientists winning international awards. Female film directors, too, are gaining recognition…Last year, Maryam Mirzakhani became the first women ever to win the Fields Medal, the top honour in mathematics. Paris Sabeti, meanwhile, is one of the world’s leading computational biologists.”
    It seems that the ME would do much better WITHOUT the presence of belligerent and obnoxious Israel relying on the military might of the US.

    https://www.siliconrepublic.com/life/2015/06/29/social-media-and-the-fight-for-womens-rights-in-iran

  242. @Sam Shama

    re

    I had in mind mostly the KSA and certainly not Iran. No one, other than some deluded, ultra arabophile could consider that cruel, rapacious “Royal Arrangement”, anything but ripe for dismantlement: by the efforts of its own people, not through the intervention of a foreign power.

    Yossi Alpher is not dispositive; neither is he a disconnected voice; therefore, I give his words a lot of weight. In his discussion of his book about Israel’s periphery doctrine he says that with Iran no longer one of Israel’s “pillars,” Israel seeks to place KSA in that position.

    That’s stunning, and ironic, since the logic of Periphery Doctrine was to find regional buffers against the Arab threat to Israel!

    re What Ahmadinejad said, vs. what he is said to have said –
    I don’t speak Farsi either, tho I work on learning the language. Juan Cole is the flag-bearer who corrects the oft-misquoted statement: Ahmadi is said to have said, “Israel should be wiped off the map.” Cole says that Ahmadi said something more like, “Zionism will disappear from the pages of time,” (much the way Communism disappeared from the USSR. btw — Putin’s statement here is right on point: http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/46860

    —-> it’s an extraordinary speech.


    I must break off now.
    Later

    • Replies: @Seamus Padraig
  243. Hrw-500 says:

    A bit off-topic but I saw this clip via this Facebook group who might need to be viral.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  244. geokat62 says:
    @Hrw-500

    Thanks for that clip. But have you seen this one:

    http://youtu.be/irhw6bj5pa0

    • Replies: @Hrw-500
  245. Hrw-500 says:
    @geokat62

    No, I didn’t saw this one. Thanks for sharing. ^_^

  246. @SolontoCroesus

    I don’t speak Farsi either, tho I work on learning the language. Juan Cole is the flag-bearer who corrects the oft-misquoted statement: Ahmadi is said to have said, “Israel should be wiped off the map.” Cole says that Ahmadi said something more like, “Zionism will disappear from the pages of time,”

    I asked no less than three different native speakers of Farsi–all émigrés and none of them particularly sympathetic to the Iranian govt. politically–and they all told me the exact same thing.

    BTW, I don’t know if Cole mentioned anything about this, but one of the Farsi speakers also told me that the quotation in question was not an Ahmedinejad original; that he was simply repeating an old phrase once used by Ayatollah Khomeini 20 years earlier.

    So as I see it, both context as well as literal meaning show that Ahmedinejad (and Khomeini?) were making a prediction, not a threat.

    P.S. I strongly suspect that the source of this little mistranslation–like so many others through the years–was the Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI), a ziocon think-tank that specializes in creatively editing and (mis-)translating Arabic and Farsi documents/speeches in order to make the Zio-state look like the victim.

    • Replies: @RobinG
  247. RobinG says:
    @Seamus Padraig

    The problem is the continued use of the probably purposeful mistranslation, notably by US “journalists” and “pundits” and of course pro-Israel propaganda-tanks.

    Ahmadinejad was, indeed, referencing Khomeini. Sometime after the c0llapse of the Soviet Union, Khomeini said that in time Israel (the Zionist project) would vanish in the same manner.

    http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/17/israeli-minister-agrees-ahmadinejad-never-said-israel-must-be-wiped-off-the-map/?_r=0

    “Last week, Teymoor Nabili of Al Jazeera suggested during an interview with Dan Meridor, Israel’s minister of intelligence and atomic energy, that Mr. Ahmadinejad’s rhetorical flourish had been misinterpreted. “This idea that Iran wants to wipe Israel out,” Mr. Nabili said, “now that’s a common trope that is put about by a lot of people in Israel, a lot of people in the United States, but as we know Ahmadinejad didn’t say that he plans to exterminate Israel, nor did he say that Iran’s policy is to exterminate Israel.”

    In response, Mr. Meridor said that Mr. Ahmadinejad and Iran’s ruling cleric, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, had said repeatedly “that Israel is an unnatural creature, it will not survive. They didn’t say, ‘We’ll wipe it out,’ you’re right, but, ‘It will not survive.’ ”

    More discussion of speech and translation here-

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/israel-wiped-off-the-map-the-rumor-of-the-century-fabricated-by-the-us-media-to-justify-an-all-out-war-on-iran/21188

  248. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    It will not be the same this time.
    Natenyahu and his subversive gangsters in the US will not win.

    Americans are smarter and the people have achieved political maturity. I talk to people of all sort of politics and creeds and it seems people understand how the Zionist lobby is not loyal to our great country, some go as far as saying that the demise of the America is the ultimate goal of the zionist 5th. column.
    Many Jews support the president but they lack the power to stand up to their leaders, and of-course are too timid to voice their opinion because of the fear that is being instilled in them by these same leaders over the years.

    It is clear now that the Fascist among the Jews, Christians, and Moslems alike have an agenda against President Obama and would like to see more war, death and destruction.
    This time they will fail

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