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There is considerable chatter about who will win in some of the hotly contested congressional races around the country, but one thing is certain: whoever triumphs will soon be receiving a nice all expenses paid luxury trip to Israel to learn all about Benjamin Netanyahu’s views regarding what more Washington can do to support him and his government. The “educational seminars” are organized by the Israel Lobby, more specifically by a tax exempt entity referred to as the American Israel Education Foundation (AIEF), which is a part of the hardline American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC). Participation in the journey by all freshman congressman is not mandatory but is advisable if one wants to stay on the right side of the Lobby. In August 2015 the class of 2014 only had three abstentions out of 53 new congressmen when it traveled to Israel along partisan lines with a Democratic group followed shortly thereafter by a GOP contingent.

These orientation trips are in addition to the frequent taxpayer funded visits made by congressmen to update themselves on Israel’s expanding list of “needs.” One such recent excursion involved Senator Thom Tillis of North Carolina, who enthused that “in a region consumed by terrorism and oppression, Israel stands out as a shining beacon of hope and freedom.” Congressman David Rouzer, also from North Carolina, observed that “Any attack on Israel of any kind is an attack on the American people. It was an honor for us to meet with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.”

My own congressman, Barbara Comstock, a Republican representing the 10th District of Virginia, made the freshman trip last year. Comstock is a supremely ambitious lawmaker who has proven herself to be a dedicated GOP apparatchik. Recently she supported the presidential candidacy of Senator Marco Rubio, the ultimate Republican establishment candidate, who has appropriately been described as an “empty suit” when it comes to any understanding of the serious issues confronting the American people.

Comstock has been involved in a number of unsavory enterprises as she climbed the GOP ladder. She once headed the defense fund for Scooter Libby, the White House aide who was eventually convicted of perjury and other crimes after outing deep cover CIA Officer Valerie Plame, a felony offense. Outing Plame not only destroyed the woman’s career, it also set back CIA efforts to find and neutralize nuclear proliferators, which is what Valerie was working on.

I do not want to appear to be picking on Comstock but she and I have had a bit of a go around on her Israel trip and regarding her statements upon returning to Virginia, which I would like to share. And I must note that she is far from unique. She in reality differs but little from the numerous other congressmen on the make who are short on principles and compassion and long on their commitment to remain on the good side of Israel. And it is completely bipartisan. If Comstock is replaced by Democratic congressional candidate LuAnn Bennett this November I am sure Bennett will make the AIPAC sponsored trip in 2017 and will grovel just as embarrassingly on the Israel-Palestine issue. After all, that is what politicians do.

Comstock commented on her travel experience in a local newspaper, the Loudoun Times-Mirror, saying that she had met with Israeli government leaders who unanimously opposed the then impending nuclear deal with Iran. She agreed, coming to the conclusion that Iran is “very much a threat, not just to Israel and the entire region, but to the United States.” She repeated the Israeli view that the agreement would make it likely that Iran would develop a nuclear weapon in 12 or 13 years. She also opposed weakening sanctions as an inducement for Iran to drop its program, observing that “I think if anything we should increase the sanctions.”

Exercising my First Amendment rights, I then wrote a letter to the newspaper:

“So Congresswoman Barbara Comstock has traveled to Israel on a trip paid for by the Israel Lobby. While there Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu warns her about the Iranians being a threat to America (and, of course, Israel) so she believes him rather than her own president and returns to regurgitate the propaganda she has been fed. It never occurs to Ms. Comstock that Netanyahu might be feeding her and the other congressmen a lot of rubbish. Neither Israel’s own generals nor the American ones at the Pentagon actually consider Iran to be a serious threat, no matter what it tries to do. Neither the CIA nor the Mossad believe that Iran has ever sought to build a nuclear weapon.

“Perhaps she should do her homework on this one. The Iran deal significantly reduces that country’s capability to produce a nuclear weapon and its research labs will be subject to intrusive inspection. Sure no deal is perfect, but there are plenty of safeguards built in and if Iran fails to keep its end of the bargain sanctions will be re-imposed. It is an agreement that is good for all parties involved, including for Israel.

“Ms. Comstock might also want to revisit her oath of office which pledges her to defend the Constitution of the United States, not to become an accomplice in what a foreign nation wants us to do. Our First President George Washington wisely urged Americans to maintain friendly relations with everyone, to avoid a ‘passionate attachment’ to another nation which just might be creating ‘the illusion of a common interest … where no common interest exists.’”

The newspaper would not print my letter, so I wrote directly to the congresswoman beginning with “The media is reporting that you have traveled to Israel on a trip paid for by the Israel Lobby” and then adding the points I had made in the newspaper letter.

Comstock responded, and I am quoting verbatim her first three paragraphs:

“The Obama Administration vowed this deal would dismantle Iran’s nuclear weapons program; provide anytime, anywhere inspections; and cut back Iran’s ballistic missile program. In March of this year, I and 367 of my colleagues signed a bipartisan letter to the president outlining what must be accomplished in the negotiations in order for Congress to support the deal, and that letter stated that the final accord must provide Iran with ‘no pathway to a bomb.’ None of the administration’s promises were kept and none of their goals were met. Therefore, this agreement is fatally flawed and I oppose this deal.

“The Obama Administration has committed to providing Iran sanctions relief from the U.S. in return for temporary, inadequate constraints on Iran’s nuclear program. It will permit Iran to launch an industrial-scale nuclear program after a little more than 10 years; to continue to block international inspectors from its secret nuclear facilities; to hide past work on its nuclear weapons program; and will allow Iran to essentially emerge from the deal as a legitimate player on the global scene with its past record of violence, oppression, and terrorism wiped clean.

“Rewarding the Iranian Regime with billions of dollars in sanctions relief and swiftly lifting the arms embargo provides Iran—a country that exports terrorism—with the means to spread violence around the region. Iran is the world’s largest state sponsor of terrorism, and this deal only emboldens the Ayatollah and the Mullahs to continue spreading instability throughout the world.”

The response is, of course, pretty much a canned argument incorporating “facts” that may have been in part drafted by AIPAC and which is completely in line with Israel Lobby and Israeli government thinking. It includes several errors, most particularly on the efficacy of the inspections routine, is confused about the source of the money due to Tehran, and considerably overstates Iran’s role as a state sponsor of terrorism. It also errs in crediting Iran with “spreading instability around the world.” That honor belongs to the United States, ably assisted by Israel.

More to the point, the response ignores the thrust of my letter, which criticizes American legislators going off on paid trips to foreign countries and then coming back home to confuse those government’s interests with those of the United States. Making a trip where you are propagandized by one side and never speaking to representatives of those who are being belittled is a poor way to come up with a policy. Iran and the Palestinians do have legitimate points of view, believe it or not, and one has to wonder how many Arabs or even dissident Israelis Comstock spoke to when she was in Israel.

Contrary to Comstock’s response, even if Tehran’s government might not be very nice it does not in any way threaten the United States and is in fact directly fighting groups like ISIS. We should be working with Iran where we share interests, not against it. The nuclear agreement between Iran and the P5+1 countries has been a success, with the inspection routine working, according to UN inspectors. If there is a fundamental problem in the Middle East it is not Iran but rather the unseemly relationship between the U.S. and Israel, which has unbalanced the region and gravely damaged genuine American interests in an important part of the world.

To appreciate the true impact of the AIEF funded trips to Israel multiply Comstock by fifty and repeat every year to make sure that everyone in congress has been subjected to the propaganda. I would bet that all Comstock’s 49 colleagues who also made the sponsored trip last year came back full of good things to say about Netanyahu and his government. One does not expect congressmen to do very much in return for their generous salaries and perks but there is something seriously wrong when they go around the world and uncritically accept what they are hearing from foreign liars and scoundrels who want the United States to do the heavy lifting after they generate regional crises that are beyond their capability to control. Unfortunately, whoever is elected, the pilgrimages to worship at the feet of Benjamin Netanyahu will continue, bringing to mind Patrick Buchanan’s apt description of a shameless and corrupted congress as “Israeli occupied territory.” Indeed.

 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: AIPAC, Barbara Comstock, Israel Lobby 
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  1. Mark Green says: • Website

    Israel and crypto-Israelis living inside the US have undermined our nation’s sovereignty. This is serious. These foreign agents have an agenda. And it’s a dangerous one.

    Incredibly, even acknowledging that there’s something wrong and perilous and artificial about this ‘special relationship’ (Israel and Washington) is verboten. So the malady hardens and spreads.

    But examining this un-diagnosed cancer, measuring its impact, and seeking a remedy is restricted.

    “There’s nothing to worry about. We are democratic allies”.

    But there’s plenty to worry about.

    Zio-US aggression is still at fever pitch. Iraq and Libya may be ruined, but there’s still Palestine, Syria, Lebanon, Iran and Russia. Conquest awaits. Israel must be made secure. Her enemies must yield.

    We are in a very deep hole. And the digging continues.

    Read More
    • Replies: @alexander
    Dear Mark,

    Were it that our "special relationship" yielded tremendous wealth ,prosperity, justice, freedom and Peace for all, what could any of us complain about ?

    What is so "serious", Mark, is the wholly pernicious assault, AS A RESULT of this "special relationship ,on nearly every aspect of our once extraordinary Nation's fabric.

    That's the problem.

    Look at our Nations balance sheet. What have our "junketed" congressmen done, but exterminated 15 trillion dollars of our nations wealth in a mere 16 years, launching feckless wars against countries that never attacked us?

    This is literally "mind numbing" in the scope of its criminality, and "mind blowing" in the vastness of its cost.

    It is unconscionable.

    This amounts to a one trillion dollar (war) "dump", of taxpayer money, for every yearly "Junket" to Israel.

    Why is this good ?

    What about our bill of rights , and the sanctity of our constitutional mandates ? All vaporized under the Neocon regime.

    Why is that good ?

    And what have the "trillions" we have spent on our Neocon "Homeland Security" actually yielded ?

    Do you realize, Mark, that in the U.S. there were more "terror attacks" over the last eight months than there were in the ENTIRE FORTY YEARS (1960-2000) before the Neocons took over in 2001.

    What does this say ?

    What does it tell you that our country which is now TWENTY TRILLION dollars in DEBT, just coughed up another 38 BILLION to Israel, without any stipulations whatsoever.

    Israel in not even required to come up with a rudimentary Peace Plan.

    Unthinkable.

    But imagine, for a moment, if our "special relationship" yielded different results.

    Imagine if the US had GAINED, not LOST , 15 trillion in wealth.

    Imagine if our most sacred "values" were reinforced, not liquidated.

    Imagine if we were operating an enormous SURPLUS today.

    Imagine if the yearly "junkets" to Israel brought peace , freedom and prosperity to everyone.

    Now how much of a problem would that be , for any of us ?

    , @annamaria
    The US Congresswoman Barbara Comstock is an enthusiastic member of the Filth Column of Israel-firsters. She is another graduate of Cheney class of war profiteers and traitors to the US Constitution. Seems that the proceeds of lobbying for wars of aggression have been dear to Barbara Comstock heart, particularly because this is the only way she can make a living. - Similar to many other utterly incompetent and ignorant in the US government, the result of unnatural (anti-meritocratic) selection of the dishonest by plutocracy. http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/what_did_we_buy_with_the_5_trillion_iraq_afghanistan_wars_cost_20160913
    "...the total US budgetary cost of the wars [in Iraq and Afghanistan] reaches $4.79 trillion. ... Interest costs for overseas contingency operations spending alone are projected to add more than $1 trillion dollars to the national debt by 2023. By 2053 , interest costs will be at least $7.9 trillion..."
    , @annamaria
    Syria is losing her patience with the arrogant bloody Israel: http://21stcenturywire.com/2016/09/13/breaking-israeli-jet-and-drone-shot-down-over-golan-heights-by-syrian-air-defences/
    , @JosephConrad
    More Israelis live in the U.S. than in Israel. They control the MSM, Hollywood & the U.S. govt.
    through dual-citizenship Jews who'd sell out the U.S. in a FLASH.

    I'm sorry Assad's AF shot down just 1 Israeli jet and drone. But Israel has $38 Billion in U.S. tax dollars over the next 10 years to buy more. Next time, perhaps Russian pilots will take out a few. .
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  2. 5371 says:

    I examined photographs of this idiot Cumstock. She is attempting the “winsome” look.

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  3. Clyde says:

    I have chosen my sides. I am pro-Israel and pro-Western civilization. You can have your Iran and your Muslims. You can have your wacky Sunnis and Shiites. You can have your mass murdering ISIS killing and raping the Christians of Iraq and Syria. Hillary will not be Israel friendly no matter how much she gets in US Jewish donor money so go vote for her. This is my advice to all you Israel obsessives.
    DJT will be neutral on Israel to pro-Israel. Trump is more difficult to predict but he wants us out of the Middle East so this is not Israel helpful.
    You must choose between 1.7 billion brainwashed, Muhammad worshiping Muslims and 17 million Jews who have gentile controlling mind rays at their disposal.
    So which side are you on boys which side are you on?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Greg Bacon
    So you support a regime that uses banned weapons on trapped Gazans and even experiments with new weapons on the same?

    And bombs and shells Gazan water treatment plants, food storage depots, electrical generating plants, UN refugee centers, schools, mosques and my fav, the Gaza Zoo?
    Yes, machine-gunning those jihadist lions, tigers and bears must be done!

    Israel is the cause of much of the ME grief, as these illegal wars against Syria and Iraq are the result of the Zionist dream of an 'Eretz Israel,' which stretches from the River Nile to the Rivers Tigris-Euphrates, paid for with the blood and wealth of Americans.

    While Israel's infrastructure is first class, America's is deplorable, falling apart, looking like a 3rd world's because nearly all of the money we should be spending on our infrastructure is going to wage war against Israel's 'existential' enemies.

    , @Andrei Martyanov

    I have chosen my sides. I am pro-Israel and pro-Western civilization
     
    These two are not necessarily equal and similar.
    , @annamaria
    " You can have your mass murdering ISIS killing and raping the Christians of Iraq and Syria...."

    Perhaps you are unaware that the "mass murdering ISIS" is a product of the US policies in the Middle East, which were spearheaded by Israel-firsters. The fanatical Islamism has been oozing from Saudi Arabia, the bosom buddy of both the US and Israel. The bloody Syrian tragedy has been going on because Israel wants Golan Heights by any means; the Israelis have been actively supporting ISIS (AL Qaeda) against sovereign Syria. http://www.globalresearch.ca/israel-supports-isis/5492807
    http://www.timesofisrael.com/yaalon-syrian-rebels-keeping-druze-safe-in-exchange-for-israeli-aid/
    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-israel-idUSKCN11J12R
    Moreover, the Israel-firsters made the US support the terrorist jihadis in their fight against Syrian state. Before accusing the critics of Israel of being against Western civilization, read Yinon plan and learn about Samson option. http://www.globalresearch.ca/greater-israel-the-zionist-plan-for-the-middle-east/5324815

    "You can have your mass murdering ISIS killing and raping the Christians of Iraq and Syria." - You mean, the US/Israel supported "moderates" and other unicorns? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-hughes/us-support-for-al-qaeda-l_b_10089410.html
    There would have been no war in Syria - and no murders of Christians there - if not the Yinon plan and Syrian oil fields. As for the Iraq War, you cannot waltz away from the war-mongering of PNAC and AIPAK. The list of cheerleaders for illegal Iraq War reads like a roster of Israel-firsters: Wolfowitz, Kristol, the Kagans, Feith, Perle, Pletka, Ledeen, Libby .... Don't even try to conflate Western civilization with Zionism; the latter is a supremacist development on a par with nazism. Take a look at the deeds of your beloved Kagans' family in Ukraine; the Zionists have been very active in arranging a war between Christians in Eastern Europe. Very civilizational.
    , @Jacques Sheete

    I have chosen my sides. I am pro-Israel and pro-Western civilization.
     
    Civilization? What's yer definition of "civilization?"

    Here's a collection of thoughts (one among many) as to what yer claiming to support.

    “ISRAELI DEMOCRACY is sliding downwards. Sliding slowly, comfortably, but unmistakably.”

    Uri Avnery, The Settlers' Prussia


    http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en/channels/avnery/1445000540/

     

    , @Chris Mallory
    The Islamofascists and the Judeofascists are both Anti-Western Civilization. I choose to deport both groups from the West and let them fight it out between themselves in the cesspit of the Middle East.
    , @Jus' Sayin'...
    Hasbara
    , @KSA
    You must be a jew. Israel is a sworn enemy of Western civilization. They've literally threatened to nuke European cities with their Samson Option. Israelis are currently helping the leftist governments of Europe bring in Muslims. Israelis in America also support Islamic migration to our country. Israel recently issued a report stating that fighting ISIS is a bad idea (for their interests). Since Israel, America, and Saudi Arabia all oppose Assad, it's pretty obvious that ISIS is an America/Israeli/Saudi asset.

    Jews are not White. Jews are not Westerners. Jews despise White people and Western civilization. This is proven literally every day in every White country when Zionist Jews demand multiculturalism for us but not for their Israel. Jews are semitic Middle Easterners. They have always been allies of Muslims against Europe, from the time of the Moors til today. Jews are the most vicious, bloodthirsty enemy of White people because they themselves are no Whiter than their Arab and Turkish allies.

    Jews are only anti-Muslim when it comes to their Israel. In the West, jews instinctively side with their semitic cousins against Europeans. It has never been otherwise. The conflict is racial and civilization. Jews and Muslims are the same people with minor squabbles. They are both the enemies of the White man.
    , @RaceRealist88
    Oy vey goy.

    Are you serious? I'm on the side or America. Which means not caring for, or helping Israel. They would be nothing without us.

    And if you think Trump will pull out of the ME you're delusional. He will be a warhawk.
    , @Bardon Kaldian
    "gentile controlling mind rays" ? Not necessary at all ...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9d4mIaINKqo
    , @Druid
    Moslems don't worship Mohammad . Your ignorance is widespread, unfortunately, especially on faux news
    , @neutral
    I have chosen my sides and its neither jews or muslims, I fail to see how either benefit me.
    , @Johnny F. Ive
    That is a false dichotomy. There is another option which is to side with the United States. The US doesn't have to pick sides. We can follow our founding fathers advice and stay out of other people's wars. Israel is talking to Russians about the fake peace process. Let it be Putin's problem.
    , @KA
    1 America’s response to the 9/11 attacks augmented rather than defeated the jihadist threat, with the consequences of the Iraq war now being felt in terror-scarred France, President Francois Hollande said Sunday, as the US marked the 15th anniversary of the devastating attacks in New York and Washington, DC.

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/us-response-to-911-increased-global-terror-threat-hollande/

    In a late-night address to the nation, French President Francois Hollande linked the deadly "terrorist attack" in Nice to the conflict in Iraq and Syria -- and said France will intensify its military operations there in the aftermath of today's tragedy.
    http://abcnews.go.com/International/french-president-links-nice-attack-iraq-syria-conflict/story?id=40597252


    Who intentionally messed up post war Iraq ?

    2 "First, we didn’t invade Iraq to bring democracy — but once we overthrew Saddam, we had a view of what should follow,” Rice responded. “If Don and the Pentagon had done their job (after claiming the rights to lead post-war rebuilding—things might have turned out differently).”


    Powell replied by seconding Rice’s critique, saying “the boys in the band were brain dead.”

    “Doug and Paul claims they had a plan (turn Iraq and our Army over to Chalibi) and leave,” Powell wrote, appearing to reference Bush administration officials Doug Feith, Paul Wolfowitz, and the late Iraqi politician Ahmed Chalabi, who died last year.

    “43 knew what had to be done,” Powell continued, referring to President George W. Bush, “specifically rejected the Chalibi crowd and as you say the boys in the band were brain dead.”

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/christophermassie/rice-if-rumsfeld-pentagon-had-done-their-job-iraq-might-have?utm_term=.rkkPaQJKzg#.py0kW3Ql1b

    4 Didn't Micheal Ledeen ask for more chaos and wasn't it him who demand that the cauldron of destruction be unleashed on ME as fast as possible when chaos was predicted by sane people?

    3 Who ordered to foment mess Iraq ? We should ask Brenenr .



    He should call Hollande and let him know how disappointed he was and how Hollande just provided succor to terror. Spencer and Geller would be very upset with Hollande now- how is it possible For Hollande to ignore all their pleas writings and education?
    ---
    , @MEexpert
    Clyde, I don't know what you are smoking but your facts are all wrong. The cause of destruction and mayhem in the middle east is not Iran but the Israel and the United States. Israel is the biggest terrorist state. They have been terrorizing Palestinians for the more than 50 years. They have killing Palestinians and Iranians (engineers and scientists) all over the world. The Al-Qaeda and now the ISIS were created by the US and Israel. These groups are supported by the US, Israel and funded by Saudi Arabia. US is the biggest exporter of terrorism along with its surrogates Israel and Saudi Arabia.

    You also have absolutely no knowledge about Islam and the Muslims. Unfortunately, the only people who are brainwashed are the American people. They have been totally brainwashed by Israel and its supporters (AIPAC, etc.), that is why they continue to die for a country who couldn't care less about them (think USS Liberty).
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  4. Its called the fifth column . The anglo-zionist lobby has been for as long as anyone can remember.
    Ur argument about Iran funding and supporting terrorism is laughable at best. Iran funds and trains against takfiri/wahabism ideology and zionist ideology. It as part of the resistance to anglo-zionist dreams of the Yinon project of a greater Israel. it funds and supports Hezbullah. Recognised legitimate political and military establishment with in the sovereign nation of Lebanon. In 2006 along side Christian phalange and Lebanese army they resisted and pushed back the Israeli criminal onslaught of southern Lebanon.
    Facts are facts and fabricated lies like that \Tehran sponsors terrorism is another. IE: Look at the criminality of the west Israel and the house of Saud against the Yeminites look at Syria are all facts of western and Israeli/GCC criminality against sovereign states/.
    Fabrications of WMD Russian invasion/aggression. Chinese aggression. When will we in the west ever learn from history and all the facts that surround the western aggression towards the world in the name of predatory capitalism and corporatism .
    Facts Iran has never invaded any country
    Fact Russia has never invaded any country. Georgian incidence was instigated by Shakasvilli and the UN report has stated as much hence the Russians moving in decreased the body count of innocent ethnic Russians. Crimea The Russians had a 40 year lease in Crimea to use their military port and bases. hence when Nuland fuk the EU destabilised Ukraine and instigated a coup d’etat and the coup plotters and winners stated quite publicly to burn all russian to hell and then parliament went ahead and made it into law not to recognise the Russian language any longer . What do u think the people of Donbas were to do sit bak at let the fascist burn them alive like they did in Odessa. The Crimeans voted to become part of Russia 96 percent turnout and over 90 percent voted for being made part of Russia.
    China has never invaded any country hence like I have been arguing is the criminal acts of Israel, Saudi Arabia and The US and their results are all their to see .
    So lets examine the facts.
    1: Afghanistan been occupied by the west since 2001 . Heroin production during this period at all time low ( Check Un data for these actual facts) Heroin production has been growing exponentially ever since the western occupation.
    2; Iraq occupation and prior to that bubba Clintons not so advertised war against Iraq ( Madelaine Albright was asked was it worth the death of a million people due to the sanctions imposed and the infrequent bombing by the US during his tenure. She replied yes.Their was noTakfiri s/wahabist in Iraq . We came we bombed/ depleated uranium/Faluja,increase in cancer and look how stable Iraq is today.
    3; Libya: Under Qadaffi had the highest standard of living in all of Africa (Check UN stats). Look at it today. Clinton e-mail scandal and 2012 DIA report state that takfirism and terrorism will grow post these events and Clinton had enabled these events in order to destabilize Syria
    4: Syria all part of the grand scheme and Docius in Fondem last but not least Wesley Clarke blew the whole lid of their deceptive scheme for global hegemony

    Read More
    • Replies: @Alden
    Russia never invaded anyone? Russia invaded east and south for a thousand years. How do you think Russia got to Odessa and the Black Sea? Russia went so Far East it now has a border with China.
    I get it, you think Russia is always right and Poland, Estonia, Uzbekestan, Khazastan and the rest of Central Asia are and were always wrong but why drag your Russian chavaunism into every thread?
    The article is about Israel rule over American foreign policy. Russia is irrevelant.

    Anyway, Israel was founded by Russisn Marxist Jews so the 2 countries have a lot in common
    , @Anonymous

    Russia has never invaded any country
     
    I didn't go on reading after that, and wondered how many would.
    , @Dreyfus
    You forgot Tunisia and Egypt to your list. Arab Spring was a CIA creation. The US had absolutely no business either with those countries. Then, why the heck we attack them? Why we converted in ruins a wonderful and modern country as Syria, the most pro-western country in the Middle East? The answer is only one: Israel, that didn't forgive Syrian leader Al Assad was friend of Russia and Iran..... For decades Israel has used the US as proxy to make wars and military interventions. We put the casualties while Israel doesn't risk one single soldier. I still keep a pic of Netanyahu visiting a hospital in Tel Aviv where there were attended several ISIS terrorists wounded in action.
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  5. alexander says:
    @Mark Green
    Israel and crypto-Israelis living inside the US have undermined our nation's sovereignty. This is serious. These foreign agents have an agenda. And it's a dangerous one.

    Incredibly, even acknowledging that there's something wrong and perilous and artificial about this 'special relationship' (Israel and Washington) is verboten. So the malady hardens and spreads.

    But examining this un-diagnosed cancer, measuring its impact, and seeking a remedy is restricted.

    "There's nothing to worry about. We are democratic allies".

    But there's plenty to worry about.

    Zio-US aggression is still at fever pitch. Iraq and Libya may be ruined, but there's still Palestine, Syria, Lebanon, Iran and Russia. Conquest awaits. Israel must be made secure. Her enemies must yield.

    We are in a very deep hole. And the digging continues.

    Dear Mark,

    Were it that our “special relationship” yielded tremendous wealth ,prosperity, justice, freedom and Peace for all, what could any of us complain about ?

    What is so “serious”, Mark, is the wholly pernicious assault, AS A RESULT of this “special relationship ,on nearly every aspect of our once extraordinary Nation’s fabric.

    That’s the problem.

    Look at our Nations balance sheet. What have our “junketed” congressmen done, but exterminated 15 trillion dollars of our nations wealth in a mere 16 years, launching feckless wars against countries that never attacked us?

    This is literally “mind numbing” in the scope of its criminality, and “mind blowing” in the vastness of its cost.

    It is unconscionable.

    This amounts to a one trillion dollar (war) “dump”, of taxpayer money, for every yearly “Junket” to Israel.

    Why is this good ?

    What about our bill of rights , and the sanctity of our constitutional mandates ? All vaporized under the Neocon regime.

    Why is that good ?

    And what have the “trillions” we have spent on our Neocon “Homeland Security” actually yielded ?

    Do you realize, Mark, that in the U.S. there were more “terror attacks” over the last eight months than there were in the ENTIRE FORTY YEARS (1960-2000) before the Neocons took over in 2001.

    What does this say ?

    What does it tell you that our country which is now TWENTY TRILLION dollars in DEBT, just coughed up another 38 BILLION to Israel, without any stipulations whatsoever.

    Israel in not even required to come up with a rudimentary Peace Plan.

    Unthinkable.

    But imagine, for a moment, if our “special relationship” yielded different results.

    Imagine if the US had GAINED, not LOST , 15 trillion in wealth.

    Imagine if our most sacred “values” were reinforced, not liquidated.

    Imagine if we were operating an enormous SURPLUS today.

    Imagine if the yearly “junkets” to Israel brought peace , freedom and prosperity to everyone.

    Now how much of a problem would that be , for any of us ?

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  6. Greg Bacon says: • Website
    @Clyde
    I have chosen my sides. I am pro-Israel and pro-Western civilization. You can have your Iran and your Muslims. You can have your wacky Sunnis and Shiites. You can have your mass murdering ISIS killing and raping the Christians of Iraq and Syria. Hillary will not be Israel friendly no matter how much she gets in US Jewish donor money so go vote for her. This is my advice to all you Israel obsessives.
    DJT will be neutral on Israel to pro-Israel. Trump is more difficult to predict but he wants us out of the Middle East so this is not Israel helpful.
    You must choose between 1.7 billion brainwashed, Muhammad worshiping Muslims and 17 million Jews who have gentile controlling mind rays at their disposal.
    So which side are you on boys which side are you on?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iAIM02kv0g

    So you support a regime that uses banned weapons on trapped Gazans and even experiments with new weapons on the same?

    And bombs and shells Gazan water treatment plants, food storage depots, electrical generating plants, UN refugee centers, schools, mosques and my fav, the Gaza Zoo?
    Yes, machine-gunning those jihadist lions, tigers and bears must be done!

    Israel is the cause of much of the ME grief, as these illegal wars against Syria and Iraq are the result of the Zionist dream of an ‘Eretz Israel,’ which stretches from the River Nile to the Rivers Tigris-Euphrates, paid for with the blood and wealth of Americans.

    While Israel’s infrastructure is first class, America’s is deplorable, falling apart, looking like a 3rd world’s because nearly all of the money we should be spending on our infrastructure is going to wage war against Israel’s ‘existential’ enemies.

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    • Replies: @Clyde
    Islam is the world's most successful imperialism. It has a fourteen century track record of barbaric conquest and annihilation. You can turn to the Armenian and Greek genocides of the 1920's for a fine example of mass murder of millions by Muslims. In this case the Turks and their Ottoman Empire. The Aztec bloodletters with their human sacrifices of thousands at a time were not around so long. Muhammad's legacy is far more bloody and enduring.
    In fact it is still with us today in the form of ISIS and other Koran quoting barbarians.
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  7. Clyde says:
    @Greg Bacon
    So you support a regime that uses banned weapons on trapped Gazans and even experiments with new weapons on the same?

    And bombs and shells Gazan water treatment plants, food storage depots, electrical generating plants, UN refugee centers, schools, mosques and my fav, the Gaza Zoo?
    Yes, machine-gunning those jihadist lions, tigers and bears must be done!

    Israel is the cause of much of the ME grief, as these illegal wars against Syria and Iraq are the result of the Zionist dream of an 'Eretz Israel,' which stretches from the River Nile to the Rivers Tigris-Euphrates, paid for with the blood and wealth of Americans.

    While Israel's infrastructure is first class, America's is deplorable, falling apart, looking like a 3rd world's because nearly all of the money we should be spending on our infrastructure is going to wage war against Israel's 'existential' enemies.

    Islam is the world’s most successful imperialism. It has a fourteen century track record of barbaric conquest and annihilation. You can turn to the Armenian and Greek genocides of the 1920′s for a fine example of mass murder of millions by Muslims. In this case the Turks and their Ottoman Empire. The Aztec bloodletters with their human sacrifices of thousands at a time were not around so long. Muhammad’s legacy is far more bloody and enduring.
    In fact it is still with us today in the form of ISIS and other Koran quoting barbarians.

    Read More
    • Agree: Ace
    • Replies: @Rehmat
    Had not been due to this "Islamic imperialism" in the past - Jews still had been wearing sign around their necks saying: "I'm the bastard who killed your Lord Christ", or signs in front of Toronto and Calgary's major hotels, saying: "Dogs and Jews no allowed".

    Reformed Rabbi Allen S. Maller, led Temple Akiba in Culver City, CA for 39 years before retiring in 2006. He taught at University of Judaism in Las Angeles, and is author of several books and has penned columns for several Jewish publications. Rabbi Maller believes the West’s main problem with Islam is that it’s different philosophy from Judaism and Christianity. While both earlier Abrahamic religions got rid off religious ethics from politics, Islamic teachings refuse to separate religious ethics from politics and day-to-day social life.

    “Islam is not more violent than medieval Christianity or Biblical Judaism. But in the last two centuries, western democracies have learned the importance of the principle of separation of Church and State to civil peace. Also the wide spread separation of Church and State that is now normal in Europe and North America has kept religion out of political and military conflicts between different nations,” Rabbi Allen S. Maller said on December 28, 2015.

    https://rehmat1.com/2016/01/02/rabbi-maller-islam-is-religion-of-tolerance/
    , @Chris Mallory
    Close our borders and the Muslims are no threat to the West. Ending the Judeofascist threat will be harder.
    , @Jacques Sheete

    Islam is the world’s most successful imperialism. It has a fourteen century track record of barbaric conquest and annihilation.
     
    So the US is only about 250 years behind?

    I wonder how the people of India feel about Brit imperialism. Tens of millions died due to their malfeasance.

    What about King Leopold's Congo Free State? Talk about annihilation and a few other hideous crimes against humanity!

    Don't even get me started on Marxists...few of which were Muslim.
    , @Talha
    I don't know why anybody should buy this claim. In the age of empires, Muslims certainly had a fairly good run and took credit for rolling up the Persian and Byzantine empires. The Mongols rolled up most of the Eastern Muslim lands - then kind of switched sides and went 'Muzzie' (at least a few of the Khanates). For much of this time, the Europeans were militarily inferior and too busy beating the crap out of each other - but that practice helped because...once the Europeans turned their franchise around (16th century for the Latins and 17th century for the East) - woah brother - they pretty much had everyone else on the run (including the various Muslim kingdoms) and brought them to heel within remarkably short order. Napolean decimated Ottoman garrisons - while outnumbered in the Levant and Egypt - again and again. I believe his only defeats came when former French officers were commanding on the Ottoman side or when the British lent support.

    Though the British were not able to hold on to it for long, they hold the record for the most territory under their empire ("Rule, rule - Britannia!") and if all the European empires are taken in under one flag as 'Western Christendom' (as people - not mentioning any names - like to lump in Sokoto, Demak, Ghaznavids, Almoravids. Mughals under 'one Islamic flag') - nothing comes close since the last 5 centuries. Here, this dynamic map is really well put together:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymI5Uv5cGU4

    Sorry if I don't jump at the bogeyman of rampant "Islamic Imperialism" which has been a sputtering mess or a bad joke for the last few centuries - what was the last successful battle against a European army - Gallipoli? And that was mostly engineered by a German general. Much of the recent Muslim military history has involved defensive battles just trying to keep things together.

    Peace.
    , @Beefcake the Mighty
    You mean the crimes of the Donmeh Turks? I.e., crypto-Jews?
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  8. Rehmat says:

    Dr. Giraldi – First of all, the American traitors within AIPAC and its associated pro-Israel advocacy groups receive most of their funding from taxpayers’ money (over $5 billions/year) given to the Zionist entity. The Zionist regime in return spent a few hundreds of millions of that money to fund these groups which not only support Israel’s colonial policies but also provide all cost-paid trips to Israel and Tel Aviv’s 280 Jewish brothels. These American sell-outs to Zionist regimes, in addition to country’s politicians also include senior officials from CIA, FBI, DHS, NYPD, and police departments from all major cities.

    The anti-Iran propaganda has nothing to do with country’s military threat to the US or Israel, as both these colonial powers are sitting on nearly 9,000 nuclear bombs combined but Iran’s support for Islamic resistance groups fighting and humiliating the Jewish army such as Hizbullah, Hamas and Islamic Jihad.

    last year, Netanyahu lied by saying that release of $150 billions of Iran’s own money would help Hizbullah and Hamas to kill more Israeli Jews. US government has admitted that it had released only $35 billions so far while forcing international banking institutions not to honor Iran’s purchases from Italy, France, and other European nations.

    United States has long been an Israeli colony. So you’re right Dr. Giraldi that no matter whether Hillary or Trump win the November election – the real winner as usual will be Netanyahu.

    However, the fact is, Iran’s support for Assad, Hizbullah, and Hamas is deep-rooted which will never change as long as Khamenei is the country’s Supreme Leader.

    In July 2016, Khamenei in a speech claimed that the recent carnage in Turkey, Iraq, Bangladesh and Saudi Arabia was the work of the intelligence agencies from the US, Israel and Britain with the evil agenda to consign Palestine into oblivion.

    “In Baghdad, several hundred families saw the loss of their loved ones at the hands of criminals and terrorists and those who want to promote a fabricated and fake Islam among people at the order of their masters. Also in Istanbul, in Bangladesh and elsewhere in some other countries, people fasting during the month of Ramadan came under terrorist attacks. This is the result of terrorism nurtured by security services of America, the Zionist regime and England,” the Leader said during Eid al-Fitr prayers in Tehran Wednesday.

    Ayatollah Khamenei said Muslim countries are the target of a scheme to turn certain political differences into civil wars.

    “The enemies are trying to consign the Palestinian issue into oblivion. They want to have the Islamic world preoccupied with internal problems so that the Palestinian issue is forgotten and the Zionist regime is given a chance to pursue its wicked goals,” said Khamenei.

    https://rehmat1.com/2016/07/06/khamenei-muslims-are-victims-of-us-israel-uk-terrorism/

    The fact is, these groups don’t receive money from Tehran government but charity groups controlled by Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatullah Ali Khamenei.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Alden
    Excellent! America is indeed an Israeli colony. And American Jews are not even grateful as they constantly file lawsuits designed to destroy American Whites.

    In case anyone wonders I'll start with school desegregation, affirmative action and court decisions that encouraged, aided and abbeted rampant crime and the destruction of our greatest cities with the triple whammy:

    1 dangerous schools courtesy of Jewish ACLU

    2 affirmative action dreck civil service

    3 rampant crime by blacks and other victims of White privileges such as the White privileged waitress or clerk who just wants to take the bus home after her shift ends at 11/pm without being robbed. Raped or murdered by the black storm troopers of liberal Jews.
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  9. Rehmat says:
    @Clyde
    Islam is the world's most successful imperialism. It has a fourteen century track record of barbaric conquest and annihilation. You can turn to the Armenian and Greek genocides of the 1920's for a fine example of mass murder of millions by Muslims. In this case the Turks and their Ottoman Empire. The Aztec bloodletters with their human sacrifices of thousands at a time were not around so long. Muhammad's legacy is far more bloody and enduring.
    In fact it is still with us today in the form of ISIS and other Koran quoting barbarians.

    Had not been due to this “Islamic imperialism” in the past – Jews still had been wearing sign around their necks saying: “I’m the bastard who killed your Lord Christ”, or signs in front of Toronto and Calgary’s major hotels, saying: “Dogs and Jews no allowed”.

    Reformed Rabbi Allen S. Maller, led Temple Akiba in Culver City, CA for 39 years before retiring in 2006. He taught at University of Judaism in Las Angeles, and is author of several books and has penned columns for several Jewish publications. Rabbi Maller believes the West’s main problem with Islam is that it’s different philosophy from Judaism and Christianity. While both earlier Abrahamic religions got rid off religious ethics from politics, Islamic teachings refuse to separate religious ethics from politics and day-to-day social life.

    “Islam is not more violent than medieval Christianity or Biblical Judaism. But in the last two centuries, western democracies have learned the importance of the principle of separation of Church and State to civil peace. Also the wide spread separation of Church and State that is now normal in Europe and North America has kept religion out of political and military conflicts between different nations,” Rabbi Allen S. Maller said on December 28, 2015.

    https://rehmat1.com/2016/01/02/rabbi-maller-islam-is-religion-of-tolerance/

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  10. annamaria says:
    @Mark Green
    Israel and crypto-Israelis living inside the US have undermined our nation's sovereignty. This is serious. These foreign agents have an agenda. And it's a dangerous one.

    Incredibly, even acknowledging that there's something wrong and perilous and artificial about this 'special relationship' (Israel and Washington) is verboten. So the malady hardens and spreads.

    But examining this un-diagnosed cancer, measuring its impact, and seeking a remedy is restricted.

    "There's nothing to worry about. We are democratic allies".

    But there's plenty to worry about.

    Zio-US aggression is still at fever pitch. Iraq and Libya may be ruined, but there's still Palestine, Syria, Lebanon, Iran and Russia. Conquest awaits. Israel must be made secure. Her enemies must yield.

    We are in a very deep hole. And the digging continues.

    The US Congresswoman Barbara Comstock is an enthusiastic member of the Filth Column of Israel-firsters. She is another graduate of Cheney class of war profiteers and traitors to the US Constitution. Seems that the proceeds of lobbying for wars of aggression have been dear to Barbara Comstock heart, particularly because this is the only way she can make a living. – Similar to many other utterly incompetent and ignorant in the US government, the result of unnatural (anti-meritocratic) selection of the dishonest by plutocracy. http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/what_did_we_buy_with_the_5_trillion_iraq_afghanistan_wars_cost_20160913
    “…the total US budgetary cost of the wars [in Iraq and Afghanistan] reaches $4.79 trillion. … Interest costs for overseas contingency operations spending alone are projected to add more than $1 trillion dollars to the national debt by 2023. By 2053 , interest costs will be at least $7.9 trillion…”

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  11. Noizpots says:

    Thank you Mr. Giraldi for another thoughtful article. As an aside, some of the above commentators need to read and write more carefully. Alexander, please reread what Mark Green said (it seems you misconstrued him, or perhaps confused him with Clyde..?) And falcemartello, check spelling and grammar next time, please. Sorry to be a scold but such gaffs undermine your message and do a disservice to the author and fellow readers.

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  12. Andrei Martyanov [AKA "SmoothieX12"] says: • Website
    @Clyde
    I have chosen my sides. I am pro-Israel and pro-Western civilization. You can have your Iran and your Muslims. You can have your wacky Sunnis and Shiites. You can have your mass murdering ISIS killing and raping the Christians of Iraq and Syria. Hillary will not be Israel friendly no matter how much she gets in US Jewish donor money so go vote for her. This is my advice to all you Israel obsessives.
    DJT will be neutral on Israel to pro-Israel. Trump is more difficult to predict but he wants us out of the Middle East so this is not Israel helpful.
    You must choose between 1.7 billion brainwashed, Muhammad worshiping Muslims and 17 million Jews who have gentile controlling mind rays at their disposal.
    So which side are you on boys which side are you on?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iAIM02kv0g

    I have chosen my sides. I am pro-Israel and pro-Western civilization

    These two are not necessarily equal and similar.

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  13. annamaria says:
    @Clyde
    I have chosen my sides. I am pro-Israel and pro-Western civilization. You can have your Iran and your Muslims. You can have your wacky Sunnis and Shiites. You can have your mass murdering ISIS killing and raping the Christians of Iraq and Syria. Hillary will not be Israel friendly no matter how much she gets in US Jewish donor money so go vote for her. This is my advice to all you Israel obsessives.
    DJT will be neutral on Israel to pro-Israel. Trump is more difficult to predict but he wants us out of the Middle East so this is not Israel helpful.
    You must choose between 1.7 billion brainwashed, Muhammad worshiping Muslims and 17 million Jews who have gentile controlling mind rays at their disposal.
    So which side are you on boys which side are you on?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iAIM02kv0g

    ” You can have your mass murdering ISIS killing and raping the Christians of Iraq and Syria….”

    Perhaps you are unaware that the “mass murdering ISIS” is a product of the US policies in the Middle East, which were spearheaded by Israel-firsters. The fanatical Islamism has been oozing from Saudi Arabia, the bosom buddy of both the US and Israel. The bloody Syrian tragedy has been going on because Israel wants Golan Heights by any means; the Israelis have been actively supporting ISIS (AL Qaeda) against sovereign Syria. http://www.globalresearch.ca/israel-supports-isis/5492807

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/yaalon-syrian-rebels-keeping-druze-safe-in-exchange-for-israeli-aid/

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-israel-idUSKCN11J12R

    Moreover, the Israel-firsters made the US support the terrorist jihadis in their fight against Syrian state. Before accusing the critics of Israel of being against Western civilization, read Yinon plan and learn about Samson option. http://www.globalresearch.ca/greater-israel-the-zionist-plan-for-the-middle-east/5324815

    “You can have your mass murdering ISIS killing and raping the Christians of Iraq and Syria.” – You mean, the US/Israel supported “moderates” and other unicorns? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-hughes/us-support-for-al-qaeda-l_b_10089410.html
    There would have been no war in Syria – and no murders of Christians there – if not the Yinon plan and Syrian oil fields. As for the Iraq War, you cannot waltz away from the war-mongering of PNAC and AIPAK. The list of cheerleaders for illegal Iraq War reads like a roster of Israel-firsters: Wolfowitz, Kristol, the Kagans, Feith, Perle, Pletka, Ledeen, Libby …. Don’t even try to conflate Western civilization with Zionism; the latter is a supremacist development on a par with nazism. Take a look at the deeds of your beloved Kagans’ family in Ukraine; the Zionists have been very active in arranging a war between Christians in Eastern Europe. Very civilizational.

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  14. Durruti says:

    Thanks: Philip Giraldi

    for all the Truth.

    Look at the picture. All those bought political Prostitutes, all those Traitors, beaming delightedly at their subservience to the Face of Evil, the Face of Ethnic Cleansing, the smiling face of enslavement of the peoples of the planet, the face of utter cynicism, the servant of the Rothschilds, the peddler of a Hollywood Holocaust and the face of many ongoing holocausts daily committed (Syria, Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan, Guatemala, Vietnam, Libya, Yemen, Sudan, WW I & II, and more Holocausts to come.

    Look at the picture. Identify all the smiling whores lined up with their pimp.

    In America, we Patriots must Restore our Republic! We must right the world!

    We have nothing to lose but our chains, and our Liberties to regain.

    Durruti defended the Spanish Republic! We must restore ours, along with our Honor!

    It is an honor to write here.

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  15. timamac says:

    So many other important topics and issues to write about, instead another story about “evil” Israel.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Chris Mallory
    No, it is a story about how traitors in the US government sell our birthright to the Judeofascists, and the American people don't even get a mess of pottage.
    , @richard vajs
    tinamac,
    Please name some of "other important topics" that should push any story about "evil Israel" from print.
    I am personally outraged that America has allied itself with a racist, land-stealing monster of a country that has perverted our Congress, and lied America into wasting Trillion of dollars fighting its crappy little wars to demolish all of its neighbors. I think that the stink and perfidy of elected officials of this country aiding these racist monsters should be in 50 point headlines. But go ahead, give us some more of your hasbara garbage - I need to get my blood boiling first thing in the morning
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  16. @Clyde
    I have chosen my sides. I am pro-Israel and pro-Western civilization. You can have your Iran and your Muslims. You can have your wacky Sunnis and Shiites. You can have your mass murdering ISIS killing and raping the Christians of Iraq and Syria. Hillary will not be Israel friendly no matter how much she gets in US Jewish donor money so go vote for her. This is my advice to all you Israel obsessives.
    DJT will be neutral on Israel to pro-Israel. Trump is more difficult to predict but he wants us out of the Middle East so this is not Israel helpful.
    You must choose between 1.7 billion brainwashed, Muhammad worshiping Muslims and 17 million Jews who have gentile controlling mind rays at their disposal.
    So which side are you on boys which side are you on?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iAIM02kv0g

    I have chosen my sides. I am pro-Israel and pro-Western civilization.

    Civilization? What’s yer definition of “civilization?”

    Here’s a collection of thoughts (one among many) as to what yer claiming to support.

    “ISRAELI DEMOCRACY is sliding downwards. Sliding slowly, comfortably, but unmistakably.”

    Uri Avnery, The Settlers’ Prussia

    http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en/channels/avnery/1445000540/

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  17. @Clyde
    I have chosen my sides. I am pro-Israel and pro-Western civilization. You can have your Iran and your Muslims. You can have your wacky Sunnis and Shiites. You can have your mass murdering ISIS killing and raping the Christians of Iraq and Syria. Hillary will not be Israel friendly no matter how much she gets in US Jewish donor money so go vote for her. This is my advice to all you Israel obsessives.
    DJT will be neutral on Israel to pro-Israel. Trump is more difficult to predict but he wants us out of the Middle East so this is not Israel helpful.
    You must choose between 1.7 billion brainwashed, Muhammad worshiping Muslims and 17 million Jews who have gentile controlling mind rays at their disposal.
    So which side are you on boys which side are you on?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iAIM02kv0g

    The Islamofascists and the Judeofascists are both Anti-Western Civilization. I choose to deport both groups from the West and let them fight it out between themselves in the cesspit of the Middle East.

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    • Replies: @TOM GILES
    Rothschilds are anti everybody but THEMSELVES, they created this mess, not Muslims. You are a little confused.
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  18. @Clyde
    Islam is the world's most successful imperialism. It has a fourteen century track record of barbaric conquest and annihilation. You can turn to the Armenian and Greek genocides of the 1920's for a fine example of mass murder of millions by Muslims. In this case the Turks and their Ottoman Empire. The Aztec bloodletters with their human sacrifices of thousands at a time were not around so long. Muhammad's legacy is far more bloody and enduring.
    In fact it is still with us today in the form of ISIS and other Koran quoting barbarians.

    Close our borders and the Muslims are no threat to the West. Ending the Judeofascist threat will be harder.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Clyde

    Close our borders and the Muslims are no threat to the West. Ending the Judeofascist threat will be harder.
     
    Tell us about those Judeo mind rays that got you dancing around like a marionette.
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  19. @timamac
    So many other important topics and issues to write about, instead another story about "evil" Israel.

    No, it is a story about how traitors in the US government sell our birthright to the Judeofascists, and the American people don’t even get a mess of pottage.

    Read More
    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
    o/t, just musing, maybe related to "birthright" --

    When Moses came down from the mountain w/ the tablets; saw the people had built a golden calf & were worshiping it; got mad, smashed the tablets then delegated the Levites to kill 3,000 of their fellow Jews who were gold calf worshipers, --( but more importantly, if you read the whole story -- who wanted to return to Egypt & assimilate there rather than kill Canaanites etc & conquer Jericho) ---

    who got the gold?
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  20. annamaria says:

    The US signed an agreement with Al Qaeda in Syria (on 9/11!), whereas Israel bombs Damask (along with Christians living there): http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2016/09/httpssouthfrontorgus-backed-moderates-reject-nationwide-ceasefire-officially.html#comments

    https://cruxnow.com/church/2016/05/06/syrian-christians-keep-the-faith-amid-horrors-of-war/

    Obama is giving away $38 billions to Israel. http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-israel-idUSKCN11J12R https://www.rt.com/usa/359184-usa-israel-military-aid/

    And “… many Obama administration officials are pushing for the shipment of billions of dollars of lethal weapons to the post-Maidan government in Ukraine… both the Senate and House passed legislation calling for the United States to arm Ukraine, while Secretary of State Kerry, Secretary of Defense Ashton Carter and U.S. Air Force General and NATO Supreme Allied Commander Philip Breedlove publicly advocated this policy.” http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2015/07/02/want-to-escalate-u-s-russia-tension-arm-ukraine/ http://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-arms-insight-idUSKCN1050ZE https://theintercept.com/2016/08/19/nato-weapons-industry/

    Again, so civilizational.

    Read More
    • Agree: Jacques Sheete
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  21. annamaria says:
    @Mark Green
    Israel and crypto-Israelis living inside the US have undermined our nation's sovereignty. This is serious. These foreign agents have an agenda. And it's a dangerous one.

    Incredibly, even acknowledging that there's something wrong and perilous and artificial about this 'special relationship' (Israel and Washington) is verboten. So the malady hardens and spreads.

    But examining this un-diagnosed cancer, measuring its impact, and seeking a remedy is restricted.

    "There's nothing to worry about. We are democratic allies".

    But there's plenty to worry about.

    Zio-US aggression is still at fever pitch. Iraq and Libya may be ruined, but there's still Palestine, Syria, Lebanon, Iran and Russia. Conquest awaits. Israel must be made secure. Her enemies must yield.

    We are in a very deep hole. And the digging continues.

    Read More
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  22. nsa says:

    Anyone curious as to why only jooies can occupy the fed reserve bank chairmanship? Can’t find a drunk irishman trained up in the modern science of joonomics? Is there a more disgusting blob of protoplasm than the human matzo ball, Yellen ……owner of tits and vagina so beyond criticism? How about #2 Fischer, former high priest of the Israeli central bank? Benanke…..Greenspan…..Volcker…..Burns…..all members of the tribe. Is it any wonder that the 1913 dollar is now worth three cents? Where did the missing 97 cents go? Think about it……..

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    The first part of your comment is historically true. Jews have dominated the Fed. But you lose credibility with the last few lines. A dollar today may not literally have the purchasing power of one in 1913, but a person's income today affords him a lifestyle that only a king could have dreamed of in 1913. As long as we become more productive as a whole, a modest amount of inflation is offset by both gains in population and the need to expand the money supply to enable consumers to buy the new products created by our increased productivity.

    If there were no debt in our economy, then what you say would be true or at least plausible. But deflation--which is what you advocate--really harms debtors, and, since we're all debtors, your scenario just won't wash. Your scenario makes the Rich i.e. the creditors, richer because the debt they own is being serviced by more valuable money than that under which the debt was contracted.

    If we lived in a cash on the barrel economy, then what you say would be true. But massive investment in gigantic factories, dams etc. rule that out. Debt is integral to a modern manufacturing economy--and we're better off for it. A cash-bound economy is a backwards economy.
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  23. Marcus says:

    I can’t think of any “terror” activities Iran sponsors, unless the Buenos Aires synagogue attack was indeed linked to Hezbollah. The US’ Gulf Arab allies are far and away the driving force behind Muslim terror, they were the only countries in the world that recognized the Taliban (Iran aided in the removal of the Taliban). So Iran is fairly sane for a Muslim regime. Of course we shouldn’t be choosing between Salafists, Shia, and Israelis in the first place. BTW, Mrs. Comstock must have been a looker in her younger years, too bad she’s another yankee transplant (and obviously a Repugnican establishment dolt), wonder if she’s related to the famous Comstock.

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  24. @Clyde
    I have chosen my sides. I am pro-Israel and pro-Western civilization. You can have your Iran and your Muslims. You can have your wacky Sunnis and Shiites. You can have your mass murdering ISIS killing and raping the Christians of Iraq and Syria. Hillary will not be Israel friendly no matter how much she gets in US Jewish donor money so go vote for her. This is my advice to all you Israel obsessives.
    DJT will be neutral on Israel to pro-Israel. Trump is more difficult to predict but he wants us out of the Middle East so this is not Israel helpful.
    You must choose between 1.7 billion brainwashed, Muhammad worshiping Muslims and 17 million Jews who have gentile controlling mind rays at their disposal.
    So which side are you on boys which side are you on?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iAIM02kv0g

    Hasbara

    Read More
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  25. KSA says:
    @Clyde
    I have chosen my sides. I am pro-Israel and pro-Western civilization. You can have your Iran and your Muslims. You can have your wacky Sunnis and Shiites. You can have your mass murdering ISIS killing and raping the Christians of Iraq and Syria. Hillary will not be Israel friendly no matter how much she gets in US Jewish donor money so go vote for her. This is my advice to all you Israel obsessives.
    DJT will be neutral on Israel to pro-Israel. Trump is more difficult to predict but he wants us out of the Middle East so this is not Israel helpful.
    You must choose between 1.7 billion brainwashed, Muhammad worshiping Muslims and 17 million Jews who have gentile controlling mind rays at their disposal.
    So which side are you on boys which side are you on?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iAIM02kv0g

    You must be a jew. Israel is a sworn enemy of Western civilization. They’ve literally threatened to nuke European cities with their Samson Option. Israelis are currently helping the leftist governments of Europe bring in Muslims. Israelis in America also support Islamic migration to our country. Israel recently issued a report stating that fighting ISIS is a bad idea (for their interests). Since Israel, America, and Saudi Arabia all oppose Assad, it’s pretty obvious that ISIS is an America/Israeli/Saudi asset.

    Jews are not White. Jews are not Westerners. Jews despise White people and Western civilization. This is proven literally every day in every White country when Zionist Jews demand multiculturalism for us but not for their Israel. Jews are semitic Middle Easterners. They have always been allies of Muslims against Europe, from the time of the Moors til today. Jews are the most vicious, bloodthirsty enemy of White people because they themselves are no Whiter than their Arab and Turkish allies.

    Jews are only anti-Muslim when it comes to their Israel. In the West, jews instinctively side with their semitic cousins against Europeans. It has never been otherwise. The conflict is racial and civilization. Jews and Muslims are the same people with minor squabbles. They are both the enemies of the White man.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Clyde
    At least you are honest. You don't just hate the Zionist Jews. You hate all Jews and they are the source of all your problems. They have their mind ray machines cooking your brain until it bubbles over.

    Israelis are currently helping the leftist governments of Europe bring in Muslims. Israelis in America also support Islamic migration to our country.

    A bunch o bull. There are not enough powerful Israelis in the USA or Europe to influence immigration politics. Angela Merkel let in a million Muslims migrants last year and no Jews told her to do this. Haim Saban has some pull in the Democrat party and this it. And he has nothing to do with Muslim immigration to America.

    , @anonymous
    whaddya think, K S A and Chris Mallory --

    Does Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs div. of hasbara assign trolls in rotation, i.e. Clyde's shift is on duty just now; or by topic or author/target, i.e. Clyde is assigned to handle Giraldi?
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  26. Clyde says:
    @Chris Mallory
    Close our borders and the Muslims are no threat to the West. Ending the Judeofascist threat will be harder.

    Close our borders and the Muslims are no threat to the West. Ending the Judeofascist threat will be harder.

    Tell us about those Judeo mind rays that got you dancing around like a marionette.

    Read More
    • Replies: @annamaria
    Here is a monument to the US/Israel-firsters policies in Syria:
    https://www.yahoo.com/news/syria-war-death-toll-now-more-300-000-103416137.html

    What else could you expect from a tribe that teaches young children to celebrate Purim - the mass murder of the natives of a generous host country.
    , @Chris Mallory
    Who said anything about mind rays. You must have gotten a hold of some bad Gefilte fish because you are delusional. But maybe you should talk about AIPAC, AIEF, dual citizens, or the Federal Reserve.
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  27. @Clyde
    I have chosen my sides. I am pro-Israel and pro-Western civilization. You can have your Iran and your Muslims. You can have your wacky Sunnis and Shiites. You can have your mass murdering ISIS killing and raping the Christians of Iraq and Syria. Hillary will not be Israel friendly no matter how much she gets in US Jewish donor money so go vote for her. This is my advice to all you Israel obsessives.
    DJT will be neutral on Israel to pro-Israel. Trump is more difficult to predict but he wants us out of the Middle East so this is not Israel helpful.
    You must choose between 1.7 billion brainwashed, Muhammad worshiping Muslims and 17 million Jews who have gentile controlling mind rays at their disposal.
    So which side are you on boys which side are you on?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iAIM02kv0g

    Oy vey goy.

    Are you serious? I’m on the side or America. Which means not caring for, or helping Israel. They would be nothing without us.

    And if you think Trump will pull out of the ME you’re delusional. He will be a warhawk.

    Read More
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  28. Clyde says:
    @KSA
    You must be a jew. Israel is a sworn enemy of Western civilization. They've literally threatened to nuke European cities with their Samson Option. Israelis are currently helping the leftist governments of Europe bring in Muslims. Israelis in America also support Islamic migration to our country. Israel recently issued a report stating that fighting ISIS is a bad idea (for their interests). Since Israel, America, and Saudi Arabia all oppose Assad, it's pretty obvious that ISIS is an America/Israeli/Saudi asset.

    Jews are not White. Jews are not Westerners. Jews despise White people and Western civilization. This is proven literally every day in every White country when Zionist Jews demand multiculturalism for us but not for their Israel. Jews are semitic Middle Easterners. They have always been allies of Muslims against Europe, from the time of the Moors til today. Jews are the most vicious, bloodthirsty enemy of White people because they themselves are no Whiter than their Arab and Turkish allies.

    Jews are only anti-Muslim when it comes to their Israel. In the West, jews instinctively side with their semitic cousins against Europeans. It has never been otherwise. The conflict is racial and civilization. Jews and Muslims are the same people with minor squabbles. They are both the enemies of the White man.

    At least you are honest. You don’t just hate the Zionist Jews. You hate all Jews and they are the source of all your problems. They have their mind ray machines cooking your brain until it bubbles over.

    Israelis are currently helping the leftist governments of Europe bring in Muslims. Israelis in America also support Islamic migration to our country.

    A bunch o bull. There are not enough powerful Israelis in the USA or Europe to influence immigration politics. Angela Merkel let in a million Muslims migrants last year and no Jews told her to do this. Haim Saban has some pull in the Democrat party and this it. And he has nothing to do with Muslim immigration to America.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Marcus
    Not technically Israeli (or does he have dual citizenship?) but Sheldon Adelson and a lot of other Israel-backers tend to be a pro-immigration influence in the GOP.
    , @Taco

    There are not enough powerful Israelis in the USA or Europe to influence immigration politics.
     
    This where your trolling went from mediocre to terrible. A good troll will leave a lot of doubt in readers' minds about whether he actually believes what he is writing. You have to wait a lot longer before you start spouting patent nonsense. A decent effort though.
    , @Ace
    David Gelbaum alone gave $100 million - and $20 million annually thereafter - to the Sierra Club on condition that if the Club ever "came out anti-immigration" it would receive no more money from him.

    Ostensibly it was based on his fond memories of his immigrant grandparents and his wanting to ensure that no one else should be denied the opportunity to emmigrate here, iirc, America to remain the sponge to the entire world to clean up every social and economic problem known to man. A dumping ground as it were.

    Moreover, Gelbaum's dear grandparents were illegals, iirc. They were refused entry in New York for health reasons and had to sneak in from Canada. This is the option Gelbaum wants to preserve, assuming I've provided an accurate account. Or even if not. Open borders is not about legal immigration. I can't document that (illegal entry, health rejection) now but let's leave it that Gelbaum simply doesn't want to "dishonor the memory" of his grandparents. For that, whites should not object to 47 million immigrants.

    The ADL and BB caught the next rocket sled to Arizona when it enacted legislation to permit cops to enquire as to immigration status in making traffic stops. Organized US Jewry to the open-borders ramparts!

    That's an eminently fair assessment, I think. Jews for illegal third-world immigration! With some honorable exceptions, I don't see any visible objection on the part of patriotic Jews. Nothing like the strong, unabashed support for the Jewish ethnostate.

    My prediction is that rather than see such objections the response to arguments about Jewish support for open borders will be the charge of "anti-Semite." (Non-Jewish morons like the Catholic and Mormon churches also advocate open borders but that's another story.)

    Adelson's no. 1 issue is Israel and he is also an open borders kinda guy. He donates millions to Republicans, as Saban and Singer do to the Dems. The latter two are also open borders guys. You've heard of the Adelson primary which has amazing implications for American politics in general and open borders in particular. Newt, financed by Adelson, was without question in Adelson's pocket.

    No, these are not Israelis but surely you don't maintain that Israeli policies are not in lock step with American Jewish ones.

    The MacDonald thesis of diluting white majorities is a bizarre one (because what he describes is bizarre) but I've yet to see one that better explains the yet-more-lunatic Jewish support for open borders. Lunatic, of course, for the notion that Jews will be safer and fare better in a nation that bears no resemblance to the one that welcomed them with open arms and basically enabled them to prosper and run the country. (Cue video of standing ovations in Congress for Israeli leader.)
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  29. @Chris Mallory
    No, it is a story about how traitors in the US government sell our birthright to the Judeofascists, and the American people don't even get a mess of pottage.

    o/t, just musing, maybe related to “birthright” –

    When Moses came down from the mountain w/ the tablets; saw the people had built a golden calf & were worshiping it; got mad, smashed the tablets then delegated the Levites to kill 3,000 of their fellow Jews who were gold calf worshipers, –( but more importantly, if you read the whole story — who wanted to return to Egypt & assimilate there rather than kill Canaanites etc & conquer Jericho)

    who got the gold?

    Read More
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  30. anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @KSA
    You must be a jew. Israel is a sworn enemy of Western civilization. They've literally threatened to nuke European cities with their Samson Option. Israelis are currently helping the leftist governments of Europe bring in Muslims. Israelis in America also support Islamic migration to our country. Israel recently issued a report stating that fighting ISIS is a bad idea (for their interests). Since Israel, America, and Saudi Arabia all oppose Assad, it's pretty obvious that ISIS is an America/Israeli/Saudi asset.

    Jews are not White. Jews are not Westerners. Jews despise White people and Western civilization. This is proven literally every day in every White country when Zionist Jews demand multiculturalism for us but not for their Israel. Jews are semitic Middle Easterners. They have always been allies of Muslims against Europe, from the time of the Moors til today. Jews are the most vicious, bloodthirsty enemy of White people because they themselves are no Whiter than their Arab and Turkish allies.

    Jews are only anti-Muslim when it comes to their Israel. In the West, jews instinctively side with their semitic cousins against Europeans. It has never been otherwise. The conflict is racial and civilization. Jews and Muslims are the same people with minor squabbles. They are both the enemies of the White man.

    whaddya think, K S A and Chris Mallory —

    Does Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs div. of hasbara assign trolls in rotation, i.e. Clyde’s shift is on duty just now; or by topic or author/target, i.e. Clyde is assigned to handle Giraldi?

    Read More
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  31. annamaria says:
    @Clyde

    Close our borders and the Muslims are no threat to the West. Ending the Judeofascist threat will be harder.
     
    Tell us about those Judeo mind rays that got you dancing around like a marionette.

    Here is a monument to the US/Israel-firsters policies in Syria:

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/syria-war-death-toll-now-more-300-000-103416137.html

    What else could you expect from a tribe that teaches young children to celebrate Purim – the mass murder of the natives of a generous host country.

    Read More
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  32. Marcus says:
    @Clyde
    At least you are honest. You don't just hate the Zionist Jews. You hate all Jews and they are the source of all your problems. They have their mind ray machines cooking your brain until it bubbles over.

    Israelis are currently helping the leftist governments of Europe bring in Muslims. Israelis in America also support Islamic migration to our country.

    A bunch o bull. There are not enough powerful Israelis in the USA or Europe to influence immigration politics. Angela Merkel let in a million Muslims migrants last year and no Jews told her to do this. Haim Saban has some pull in the Democrat party and this it. And he has nothing to do with Muslim immigration to America.

    Not technically Israeli (or does he have dual citizenship?) but Sheldon Adelson and a lot of other Israel-backers tend to be a pro-immigration influence in the GOP.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Clyde

    Not technically Israeli (or does he have dual citizenship?) but Sheldon Adelson and a lot of other Israel-backers tend to be a pro-immigration influence in the GOP.
     
    Not all US Jews are fervent backers of Israel. Many are atheistic and non-committal when it comes to Israel. The number of dual citizenship Mexicans and Central Americans far outnumbers the US Jews who are also Israeli citizens.
    Are US Jews mostly Democrat and mostly for loose and stupid immigration policies such as what Obama has been doing? The answer is yes. But it is just plain dumb to claim that Israelis living here (USA) are influencing US immigration policies.
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  33. Taco says:
    @Clyde
    At least you are honest. You don't just hate the Zionist Jews. You hate all Jews and they are the source of all your problems. They have their mind ray machines cooking your brain until it bubbles over.

    Israelis are currently helping the leftist governments of Europe bring in Muslims. Israelis in America also support Islamic migration to our country.

    A bunch o bull. There are not enough powerful Israelis in the USA or Europe to influence immigration politics. Angela Merkel let in a million Muslims migrants last year and no Jews told her to do this. Haim Saban has some pull in the Democrat party and this it. And he has nothing to do with Muslim immigration to America.

    There are not enough powerful Israelis in the USA or Europe to influence immigration politics.

    This where your trolling went from mediocre to terrible. A good troll will leave a lot of doubt in readers’ minds about whether he actually believes what he is writing. You have to wait a lot longer before you start spouting patent nonsense. A decent effort though.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Clyde
    Name the powerful Israelis in Europe and America. Who do you have in mind? Who are these Israelis who are calling the shots? I really want to know.....lol.... You are tripping.
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  34. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @nsa
    Anyone curious as to why only jooies can occupy the fed reserve bank chairmanship? Can't find a drunk irishman trained up in the modern science of joonomics? Is there a more disgusting blob of protoplasm than the human matzo ball, Yellen ......owner of tits and vagina so beyond criticism? How about #2 Fischer, former high priest of the Israeli central bank? Benanke.....Greenspan.....Volcker.....Burns.....all members of the tribe. Is it any wonder that the 1913 dollar is now worth three cents? Where did the missing 97 cents go? Think about it........

    The first part of your comment is historically true. Jews have dominated the Fed. But you lose credibility with the last few lines. A dollar today may not literally have the purchasing power of one in 1913, but a person’s income today affords him a lifestyle that only a king could have dreamed of in 1913. As long as we become more productive as a whole, a modest amount of inflation is offset by both gains in population and the need to expand the money supply to enable consumers to buy the new products created by our increased productivity.

    If there were no debt in our economy, then what you say would be true or at least plausible. But deflation–which is what you advocate–really harms debtors, and, since we’re all debtors, your scenario just won’t wash. Your scenario makes the Rich i.e. the creditors, richer because the debt they own is being serviced by more valuable money than that under which the debt was contracted.

    If we lived in a cash on the barrel economy, then what you say would be true. But massive investment in gigantic factories, dams etc. rule that out. Debt is integral to a modern manufacturing economy–and we’re better off for it. A cash-bound economy is a backwards economy.

    Read More
    • Replies: @alexander
    This is an excellent point, Anonymous.

    And well stated too.

    The amount of inflation since 1913 is not an indicator of nefarious , sinister, and "crippling" back room policy making by the federal reserve.

    It never was.

    BUT the call to a "decade and a half" of perpetual "war-making" (by the Neocons) based on fraudulent rationales, IS deeply sinister. Moreover, these nefarious policies have "extracted" trillions of dollars from our economy beyond what we could afford to spend.

    And since these wars were wholly of CHOICE, and Americans were deceived into war making in the first place, the 20 trillion dollar price tag is an abomination.

    I am one who believes that generating humongous DEBT by overspending on things wholly outside the parameters of our constitutional mandates is "poison" for our country.

    Starting wars of aggression is not only OUTSIDE our mandates as a Nation , its a heinous criminal act.

    There are going to be big problems in the future, when we realize we cannot float this level of debt in perpetuity, somebody is going to have to pay for these wars, sometime.

    If the Neocons were all required BY LAW to pay UP FRONT from their own pockets, for the wars THEY chose to start, I do not believe a single shot would ever have been fired.

    I certainly don't want the burden of these war debts placed squarely on the shoulders of our great grand children .....especially when they had absolutely NO say in the matter of "starting them".

    Do you ?
    , @nsa
    Nice try. You existence is preferable to that of Louis the 14th because Louie did not have a blender, iphone, or the porn channel? Oh, and a stable dollar or even deflation is actually good for those working for a living doing something useful. Inflationary joonomics is better only for the masses of botched freeloaders inhabiting the modern welfare-warfare state.....and their jooie masters.
    , @Wally
    And another creepy Zionist on the US Supreme court. That makes it four.

    All just a coincidence.

    Who demands mass immigration into white gentile countries, but stops non-Jew immigration into “that shitty little country”?
    Who runs the Federal Reserve?
    Who runs Wall Street?
    Who owns the US Congress?
    Who owns the White House?
    Who forces acceptance of the fictitious & impossible ’6M & gas chambers’?
    Who runs the media / entertainment?
    Who runs the music business?
    Who dominates ‘academia’?
    Why is AIPAC the most powerful, dominant lobby, which regularly writes the text of Congressional bills and resolutions?
    Who is it that wants to censor free speech via the “hate speech” canard?
    Who is it that demands we shed the blood of US troops for their interests?
    Who are the real & biggest racists on the planet?
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  35. @Clyde

    Close our borders and the Muslims are no threat to the West. Ending the Judeofascist threat will be harder.
     
    Tell us about those Judeo mind rays that got you dancing around like a marionette.

    Who said anything about mind rays. You must have gotten a hold of some bad Gefilte fish because you are delusional. But maybe you should talk about AIPAC, AIEF, dual citizens, or the Federal Reserve.

    Read More
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  36. @Clyde
    I have chosen my sides. I am pro-Israel and pro-Western civilization. You can have your Iran and your Muslims. You can have your wacky Sunnis and Shiites. You can have your mass murdering ISIS killing and raping the Christians of Iraq and Syria. Hillary will not be Israel friendly no matter how much she gets in US Jewish donor money so go vote for her. This is my advice to all you Israel obsessives.
    DJT will be neutral on Israel to pro-Israel. Trump is more difficult to predict but he wants us out of the Middle East so this is not Israel helpful.
    You must choose between 1.7 billion brainwashed, Muhammad worshiping Muslims and 17 million Jews who have gentile controlling mind rays at their disposal.
    So which side are you on boys which side are you on?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iAIM02kv0g

    “gentile controlling mind rays” ? Not necessary at all …

    Read More
    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
    In Family Guy it was a roller coaster.

    https://youtu.be/b12T7fFFJLI
    , @Anon
    do they serve roasted prick in a red tank at the Holocaust Bar & Grill?
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  37. Andrei Martyanov [AKA "SmoothieX12"] says: • Website
    @Bardon Kaldian
    "gentile controlling mind rays" ? Not necessary at all ...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9d4mIaINKqo

    In Family Guy it was a roller coaster.

    Read More
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  38. alexander says:
    @Anonymous
    The first part of your comment is historically true. Jews have dominated the Fed. But you lose credibility with the last few lines. A dollar today may not literally have the purchasing power of one in 1913, but a person's income today affords him a lifestyle that only a king could have dreamed of in 1913. As long as we become more productive as a whole, a modest amount of inflation is offset by both gains in population and the need to expand the money supply to enable consumers to buy the new products created by our increased productivity.

    If there were no debt in our economy, then what you say would be true or at least plausible. But deflation--which is what you advocate--really harms debtors, and, since we're all debtors, your scenario just won't wash. Your scenario makes the Rich i.e. the creditors, richer because the debt they own is being serviced by more valuable money than that under which the debt was contracted.

    If we lived in a cash on the barrel economy, then what you say would be true. But massive investment in gigantic factories, dams etc. rule that out. Debt is integral to a modern manufacturing economy--and we're better off for it. A cash-bound economy is a backwards economy.

    This is an excellent point, Anonymous.

    And well stated too.

    The amount of inflation since 1913 is not an indicator of nefarious , sinister, and “crippling” back room policy making by the federal reserve.

    It never was.

    BUT the call to a “decade and a half” of perpetual “war-making” (by the Neocons) based on fraudulent rationales, IS deeply sinister. Moreover, these nefarious policies have “extracted” trillions of dollars from our economy beyond what we could afford to spend.

    And since these wars were wholly of CHOICE, and Americans were deceived into war making in the first place, the 20 trillion dollar price tag is an abomination.

    I am one who believes that generating humongous DEBT by overspending on things wholly outside the parameters of our constitutional mandates is “poison” for our country.

    Starting wars of aggression is not only OUTSIDE our mandates as a Nation , its a heinous criminal act.

    There are going to be big problems in the future, when we realize we cannot float this level of debt in perpetuity, somebody is going to have to pay for these wars, sometime.

    If the Neocons were all required BY LAW to pay UP FRONT from their own pockets, for the wars THEY chose to start, I do not believe a single shot would ever have been fired.

    I certainly don’t want the burden of these war debts placed squarely on the shoulders of our great grand children …..especially when they had absolutely NO say in the matter of “starting them”.

    Do you ?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I agree with every point you make.
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  39. Alden says:

    It’s not just Jews you know. It’s all those religious Protestants who are hysterically pro Israel because the bible told them so. Plus the fact that their preachers are paid well by AIPAC to preach the Old Testament and Israel uber alles.

    Read More
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  40. nickels says:

    Creditors also win.

    There is no redemption in the rule of man.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    thnx b to god we have alexander to explain US financial problems to us irredeemable mortals.

    don't you agree?
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  41. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Bardon Kaldian
    "gentile controlling mind rays" ? Not necessary at all ...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9d4mIaINKqo

    do they serve roasted prick in a red tank at the Holocaust Bar & Grill?

    Read More
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  42. Svigor says:

    Question for standardized tests:

    Which tired old dodge are Jews (et al) most fond of deploying?

    A. Where’s my Worldwide Jewish Conspiracy dividend check?
    B. Lulz mind control rays.
    C. They hate us because we’re wonderful, oh, and Hitler was Jewish/had one testicle/couldn’t paint better than Warhol.
    D. All of the above.

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  43. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @nickels
    Creditors also win.

    There is no redemption in the rule of man.

    thnx b to god we have alexander to explain US financial problems to us irredeemable mortals.

    don’t you agree?

    Read More
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  44. nsa says:
    @Anonymous
    The first part of your comment is historically true. Jews have dominated the Fed. But you lose credibility with the last few lines. A dollar today may not literally have the purchasing power of one in 1913, but a person's income today affords him a lifestyle that only a king could have dreamed of in 1913. As long as we become more productive as a whole, a modest amount of inflation is offset by both gains in population and the need to expand the money supply to enable consumers to buy the new products created by our increased productivity.

    If there were no debt in our economy, then what you say would be true or at least plausible. But deflation--which is what you advocate--really harms debtors, and, since we're all debtors, your scenario just won't wash. Your scenario makes the Rich i.e. the creditors, richer because the debt they own is being serviced by more valuable money than that under which the debt was contracted.

    If we lived in a cash on the barrel economy, then what you say would be true. But massive investment in gigantic factories, dams etc. rule that out. Debt is integral to a modern manufacturing economy--and we're better off for it. A cash-bound economy is a backwards economy.

    Nice try. You existence is preferable to that of Louis the 14th because Louie did not have a blender, iphone, or the porn channel? Oh, and a stable dollar or even deflation is actually good for those working for a living doing something useful. Inflationary joonomics is better only for the masses of botched freeloaders inhabiting the modern welfare-warfare state…..and their jooie masters.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Ever more efficient manufacturing techniques and line organization, scientific discoveries, division of labor and investment capital work together in a virtuous cycle that produces more goods and services this year than were produced last year. This frees some workers to make new, different, interesting and novel stuff. We all gain.

    Today we have all benefitted from medical advances that have reduced infant mortality and extended our life expectancy. While your teeth can be filled or extracted with the aid of anesthetic, a worker in the past was not so fortunate.

    "Porn channel"? That's your example of one of the benefits of modern times?

    Both Mike Whitney and Michael Hudson on this site write informative essays dealing with the two economies in America today--the financial one and the productive one. You seem to be conflating the two. No one denies that Wall Street is peopled by a bunch of parasitic sociopaths whose criminal antics threaten the real economy--except them.
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  45. De Gaulle says:

    When I wrote about types of Jews some days ago, a friend pointed out that I had missed a meta-Jew, the Sayanim. That makes a more complex analysis due to the upper stratum of persons and affiliations to cross beliefs and borders.

    Israeli population is but a starting point for influence in the broader world. US, Britain, France and other countries have significant Jewish populations. Some among the citizens keep their head down and live in local areas and others lift it up to look at world news. If that is a Fifth Column or an involved person changes by perspective.

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  46. @Clyde
    Islam is the world's most successful imperialism. It has a fourteen century track record of barbaric conquest and annihilation. You can turn to the Armenian and Greek genocides of the 1920's for a fine example of mass murder of millions by Muslims. In this case the Turks and their Ottoman Empire. The Aztec bloodletters with their human sacrifices of thousands at a time were not around so long. Muhammad's legacy is far more bloody and enduring.
    In fact it is still with us today in the form of ISIS and other Koran quoting barbarians.

    Islam is the world’s most successful imperialism. It has a fourteen century track record of barbaric conquest and annihilation.

    So the US is only about 250 years behind?

    I wonder how the people of India feel about Brit imperialism. Tens of millions died due to their malfeasance.

    What about King Leopold’s Congo Free State? Talk about annihilation and a few other hideous crimes against humanity!

    Don’t even get me started on Marxists…few of which were Muslim.

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    • Replies: @Alden
    King Leopold's atrocities were British propaganda. Motive was simple, Britain wanted Congo. So Britain created the atrocities. 20 years later during WW1 Britain created stories of German atrocities to con America into war.

    Britain is a master at propaganda and the Belgian Congo atrocities were nothing but propaganda so the British could justify going in and taking over Congo itself.
    , @Clyde
    Why are you deflecting on the fourteen centuries of barbaric Islamic imperialism, genocide and ethnic/religious cleansing? Why do you promote yourself as a defender of the Islamic faith? I don't get it. I am assuming you are not Muslim, but I could be wrong.
    What is your attraction to Islam?
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  47. wikipedia says Comstock will be challenged by LuAnn Bennett https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LuAnn_Bennett

    https://fcnp.com/2015/12/10/luann-bennett-announces-run-for-congress-in-virginias-10th-district/

    Will Bennett bring change you can believe in to Virginia 10th District, or another Comstock load?

    Bennett was married to Jim Moran for half-a-dozen years. Moran tangled with the Jewish lobby on a few occasions.

    “Democratic strategist Ellen Qualls said the 10th District is “essentially the swingiest district in the swingiest state.” ”
    Feel the power, Phil.

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  48. Sean says:

    That is why as PM of Israel Ehud Barak offered so much (far more than any subsequent Israeli leader has) at Camp David and in his abortive subsequent attempt at a final settlement, because he thought things could only get better for Israel, eh? And that is why the Palestinians turned Barak down, because they thought things could only get worse for the Arabs in the West Bank and the rest of Israel, obviously.

    No, the long term fate of an Israel with Arabs in the West Bank being denied full rights is going to be much as apartheid South Africa’s was. The established US policy is Israel will have to give up the West Bank, which will bring about its ellipse as a Jewish nation

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  49. Alden says:
    @Rehmat
    Dr. Giraldi - First of all, the American traitors within AIPAC and its associated pro-Israel advocacy groups receive most of their funding from taxpayers' money (over $5 billions/year) given to the Zionist entity. The Zionist regime in return spent a few hundreds of millions of that money to fund these groups which not only support Israel's colonial policies but also provide all cost-paid trips to Israel and Tel Aviv's 280 Jewish brothels. These American sell-outs to Zionist regimes, in addition to country's politicians also include senior officials from CIA, FBI, DHS, NYPD, and police departments from all major cities.

    The anti-Iran propaganda has nothing to do with country's military threat to the US or Israel, as both these colonial powers are sitting on nearly 9,000 nuclear bombs combined but Iran's support for Islamic resistance groups fighting and humiliating the Jewish army such as Hizbullah, Hamas and Islamic Jihad.

    last year, Netanyahu lied by saying that release of $150 billions of Iran's own money would help Hizbullah and Hamas to kill more Israeli Jews. US government has admitted that it had released only $35 billions so far while forcing international banking institutions not to honor Iran's purchases from Italy, France, and other European nations.

    United States has long been an Israeli colony. So you're right Dr. Giraldi that no matter whether Hillary or Trump win the November election - the real winner as usual will be Netanyahu.

    However, the fact is, Iran's support for Assad, Hizbullah, and Hamas is deep-rooted which will never change as long as Khamenei is the country's Supreme Leader.

    In July 2016, Khamenei in a speech claimed that the recent carnage in Turkey, Iraq, Bangladesh and Saudi Arabia was the work of the intelligence agencies from the US, Israel and Britain with the evil agenda to consign Palestine into oblivion.

    “In Baghdad, several hundred families saw the loss of their loved ones at the hands of criminals and terrorists and those who want to promote a fabricated and fake Islam among people at the order of their masters. Also in Istanbul, in Bangladesh and elsewhere in some other countries, people fasting during the month of Ramadan came under terrorist attacks. This is the result of terrorism nurtured by security services of America, the Zionist regime and England,” the Leader said during Eid al-Fitr prayers in Tehran Wednesday.

    Ayatollah Khamenei said Muslim countries are the target of a scheme to turn certain political differences into civil wars.

    “The enemies are trying to consign the Palestinian issue into oblivion. They want to have the Islamic world preoccupied with internal problems so that the Palestinian issue is forgotten and the Zionist regime is given a chance to pursue its wicked goals,” said Khamenei.

    https://rehmat1.com/2016/07/06/khamenei-muslims-are-victims-of-us-israel-uk-terrorism/


    The fact is, these groups don't receive money from Tehran government but charity groups controlled by Iran's Supreme Leader Ayatullah Ali Khamenei.

    Excellent! America is indeed an Israeli colony. And American Jews are not even grateful as they constantly file lawsuits designed to destroy American Whites.

    In case anyone wonders I’ll start with school desegregation, affirmative action and court decisions that encouraged, aided and abbeted rampant crime and the destruction of our greatest cities with the triple whammy:

    1 dangerous schools courtesy of Jewish ACLU

    2 affirmative action dreck civil service

    3 rampant crime by blacks and other victims of White privileges such as the White privileged waitress or clerk who just wants to take the bus home after her shift ends at 11/pm without being robbed. Raped or murdered by the black storm troopers of liberal Jews.

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    • Replies: @Rehmat
    Blacks rapping and murdering Jews!!

    Where you learned that when in fact it's Zionist Jews who are founding rapping and murdering Blacks....

    On December 11, 2015, Daniel Holtzclaw, 29, ex-Oklahoma City police officer, was found guilty of rape, sexual battery and forcible oral sodomy. He was arrested last year and subsequently fired from the police force. Holtzclaw faced a total of 36 counts, of which a jury convicted him of 18.

    How antisemitic, eh! Watch the sobbing filth in court (here) as the verdict was read aloud.

    Holtzclaw’s all 13 victims were Black women ranging from 27 to 50 year of age.

    https://rehmat1.com/2015/12/14/us-jew-cop-found-guilty-of-raping-13-black-women/
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  50. Sooner or later, every nation which hosts Jews faces the same dilemma; how to get rid of them?

    We are witness, in real time, to the same process which has unfolded at least two hundred times before. Jews move someplace new, make themselves hated all over again for the same reasons that everyone else before hated them. They are cast out (or exterminated depending on how badly they behaved this time) and they move someplace else and start the process anew.

    One would think that a people so allegedly clever would learn something from this but they won’t.

    I give Jews another 50 -100 years in North America.

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    • Replies: @Alden
    I read Jewish publications all the time. The Jews just live China right now. They constantly extoll and praise everything Chinese. A bid deal is made of what Chibese and Jews have in common, hard work, entrepreneurs rather than workers, high value on education and strong family values. Intermarriage between Jewish men and Chinese women is highly regarded.
    There were Persian Jewish traders in the Chinese pacific ports going back at least 2,500 years. That is proof that yes we Jews can go to China and prosper
    About 125 years ago Jews began the big jump from Russia to S.Africa and America. By 1960 they were running both countries, that's only about 80 years after arrival. They did the same thing in both countries, organized the blacks against the ruling Whites. Even Oppenheim now brags that "we were behind the ANC all the time"
    All Americans know how the Jews led the blacks and other minorities and immigrants against the Whites.

    But the Han have never submitted to rule by one of their minorities. So 50 to 100 years from now when the children of Jewish immigrants to China try to stir up some minority ethnic group against the Han I wonder how it will come out.

    One thing I have noticed. Jews always do best in Christian countries due to the fact that Christians use the Old Testament and Christianity began as a Jewish heresy.

    But China is not Christian and they are far more chauvinistic and racist than any ethnic group Jews have ever run into
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  51. Alden says:
    @falcemartello
    Its called the fifth column . The anglo-zionist lobby has been for as long as anyone can remember.
    Ur argument about Iran funding and supporting terrorism is laughable at best. Iran funds and trains against takfiri/wahabism ideology and zionist ideology. It as part of the resistance to anglo-zionist dreams of the Yinon project of a greater Israel. it funds and supports Hezbullah. Recognised legitimate political and military establishment with in the sovereign nation of Lebanon. In 2006 along side Christian phalange and Lebanese army they resisted and pushed back the Israeli criminal onslaught of southern Lebanon.
    Facts are facts and fabricated lies like that \Tehran sponsors terrorism is another. IE: Look at the criminality of the west Israel and the house of Saud against the Yeminites look at Syria are all facts of western and Israeli/GCC criminality against sovereign states/.
    Fabrications of WMD Russian invasion/aggression. Chinese aggression. When will we in the west ever learn from history and all the facts that surround the western aggression towards the world in the name of predatory capitalism and corporatism .
    Facts Iran has never invaded any country
    Fact Russia has never invaded any country. Georgian incidence was instigated by Shakasvilli and the UN report has stated as much hence the Russians moving in decreased the body count of innocent ethnic Russians. Crimea The Russians had a 40 year lease in Crimea to use their military port and bases. hence when Nuland fuk the EU destabilised Ukraine and instigated a coup d'etat and the coup plotters and winners stated quite publicly to burn all russian to hell and then parliament went ahead and made it into law not to recognise the Russian language any longer . What do u think the people of Donbas were to do sit bak at let the fascist burn them alive like they did in Odessa. The Crimeans voted to become part of Russia 96 percent turnout and over 90 percent voted for being made part of Russia.
    China has never invaded any country hence like I have been arguing is the criminal acts of Israel, Saudi Arabia and The US and their results are all their to see .
    So lets examine the facts.
    1: Afghanistan been occupied by the west since 2001 . Heroin production during this period at all time low ( Check Un data for these actual facts) Heroin production has been growing exponentially ever since the western occupation.
    2; Iraq occupation and prior to that bubba Clintons not so advertised war against Iraq ( Madelaine Albright was asked was it worth the death of a million people due to the sanctions imposed and the infrequent bombing by the US during his tenure. She replied yes.Their was noTakfiri s/wahabist in Iraq . We came we bombed/ depleated uranium/Faluja,increase in cancer and look how stable Iraq is today.
    3; Libya: Under Qadaffi had the highest standard of living in all of Africa (Check UN stats). Look at it today. Clinton e-mail scandal and 2012 DIA report state that takfirism and terrorism will grow post these events and Clinton had enabled these events in order to destabilize Syria
    4: Syria all part of the grand scheme and Docius in Fondem last but not least Wesley Clarke blew the whole lid of their deceptive scheme for global hegemony

    Russia never invaded anyone? Russia invaded east and south for a thousand years. How do you think Russia got to Odessa and the Black Sea? Russia went so Far East it now has a border with China.
    I get it, you think Russia is always right and Poland, Estonia, Uzbekestan, Khazastan and the rest of Central Asia are and were always wrong but why drag your Russian chavaunism into every thread?
    The article is about Israel rule over American foreign policy. Russia is irrevelant.

    Anyway, Israel was founded by Russisn Marxist Jews so the 2 countries have a lot in common

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    • Replies: @falcemartello
    Alden when has Russia invaded any country since the USSR has dissolved ? So if u want to go and look at all the history. Italian fascist invaded africa . My point is related to post modern era period .PUNTO E BASTA
    , @annamaria
    "Russia invaded east and south for a thousand years.. Russia went so Far East it now has a border with China.."

    Could you name a state in Siberia that Russia has fought and subjugated? Have you heard about Poland' wars against Russia before Russia became a state to beckon with? When the state of Estonia was formed?
    The article is about modern world. Could you please name a single Russian invasion during the last 25 years? Come on... And what does make you believe that Russians and Jews have a lot in common? If that were so than the "Two Hundred Years Together" by Alexander Solzhenitsyn would not be sequestered by the US/UK publishers - all of them! Though it is true that Russians should have a deeper understanding of Israelis' mentality than people of other nations, thanks to the Soviet experiment.

    Moreover, Israel wants the dismemberment of Syria in order to grab the Golan Heights (see Yinon plan for Erez Israel), whereas RF wants to protect her southern borders from jihadis and thus prefers to have a stable and peaceful Syria. What is not clear about this state of affairs?

    Whatever your tried to tell the readers, you came in support for the Kagans' policies in Ukraine as well as in support of NATO' direct encroachment on the Russian borders.
    And how close is Ukraine to the US borders? Next door?
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  52. Druid says:
    @Clyde
    I have chosen my sides. I am pro-Israel and pro-Western civilization. You can have your Iran and your Muslims. You can have your wacky Sunnis and Shiites. You can have your mass murdering ISIS killing and raping the Christians of Iraq and Syria. Hillary will not be Israel friendly no matter how much she gets in US Jewish donor money so go vote for her. This is my advice to all you Israel obsessives.
    DJT will be neutral on Israel to pro-Israel. Trump is more difficult to predict but he wants us out of the Middle East so this is not Israel helpful.
    You must choose between 1.7 billion brainwashed, Muhammad worshiping Muslims and 17 million Jews who have gentile controlling mind rays at their disposal.
    So which side are you on boys which side are you on?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iAIM02kv0g

    Moslems don’t worship Mohammad . Your ignorance is widespread, unfortunately, especially on faux news

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    • Replies: @Clyde

    Moslems don’t worship Mohammad . Your ignorance is widespread, unfortunately, especially on faux news.
     
    WRONG! The net of their religious practices amounts to Muhammad worship and I am not the first to claim this. Not by a long shot. And Fox New has nothing to do with it. Calling them faux news is what infantile leftists do.
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  53. Alden says:
    @Jacques Sheete

    Islam is the world’s most successful imperialism. It has a fourteen century track record of barbaric conquest and annihilation.
     
    So the US is only about 250 years behind?

    I wonder how the people of India feel about Brit imperialism. Tens of millions died due to their malfeasance.

    What about King Leopold's Congo Free State? Talk about annihilation and a few other hideous crimes against humanity!

    Don't even get me started on Marxists...few of which were Muslim.

    King Leopold’s atrocities were British propaganda. Motive was simple, Britain wanted Congo. So Britain created the atrocities. 20 years later during WW1 Britain created stories of German atrocities to con America into war.

    Britain is a master at propaganda and the Belgian Congo atrocities were nothing but propaganda so the British could justify going in and taking over Congo itself.

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    • Replies: @Jacques Sheete

    Britain is a master at propaganda
     
    While that is certainly true, the follwing will need some documentation.

    ...and the Belgian Congo atrocities were nothing but propaganda so the British could justify going in and taking over Congo itself.
     
    Anyway, why did the Belgians decide to take it over and call it the Belgian Congo instead of the Brits?

    On a side note regarding perfidious and treacherous Albion, I wonder how many know that the Brits ran horrible, terroristic concentration camps in Kenya up to and including the 1950s.

    Here's a good read:

    https://www.amazon.com/Imperial-Reckoning-Untold-Story-Britains/dp/0805080015

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  54. Ace says:
    @Clyde
    At least you are honest. You don't just hate the Zionist Jews. You hate all Jews and they are the source of all your problems. They have their mind ray machines cooking your brain until it bubbles over.

    Israelis are currently helping the leftist governments of Europe bring in Muslims. Israelis in America also support Islamic migration to our country.

    A bunch o bull. There are not enough powerful Israelis in the USA or Europe to influence immigration politics. Angela Merkel let in a million Muslims migrants last year and no Jews told her to do this. Haim Saban has some pull in the Democrat party and this it. And he has nothing to do with Muslim immigration to America.

    David Gelbaum alone gave $100 million – and $20 million annually thereafter – to the Sierra Club on condition that if the Club ever “came out anti-immigration” it would receive no more money from him.

    Ostensibly it was based on his fond memories of his immigrant grandparents and his wanting to ensure that no one else should be denied the opportunity to emmigrate here, iirc, America to remain the sponge to the entire world to clean up every social and economic problem known to man. A dumping ground as it were.

    Moreover, Gelbaum’s dear grandparents were illegals, iirc. They were refused entry in New York for health reasons and had to sneak in from Canada. This is the option Gelbaum wants to preserve, assuming I’ve provided an accurate account. Or even if not. Open borders is not about legal immigration. I can’t document that (illegal entry, health rejection) now but let’s leave it that Gelbaum simply doesn’t want to “dishonor the memory” of his grandparents. For that, whites should not object to 47 million immigrants.

    The ADL and BB caught the next rocket sled to Arizona when it enacted legislation to permit cops to enquire as to immigration status in making traffic stops. Organized US Jewry to the open-borders ramparts!

    That’s an eminently fair assessment, I think. Jews for illegal third-world immigration! With some honorable exceptions, I don’t see any visible objection on the part of patriotic Jews. Nothing like the strong, unabashed support for the Jewish ethnostate.

    My prediction is that rather than see such objections the response to arguments about Jewish support for open borders will be the charge of “anti-Semite.” (Non-Jewish morons like the Catholic and Mormon churches also advocate open borders but that’s another story.)

    Adelson’s no. 1 issue is Israel and he is also an open borders kinda guy. He donates millions to Republicans, as Saban and Singer do to the Dems. The latter two are also open borders guys. You’ve heard of the Adelson primary which has amazing implications for American politics in general and open borders in particular. Newt, financed by Adelson, was without question in Adelson’s pocket.

    No, these are not Israelis but surely you don’t maintain that Israeli policies are not in lock step with American Jewish ones.

    The MacDonald thesis of diluting white majorities is a bizarre one (because what he describes is bizarre) but I’ve yet to see one that better explains the yet-more-lunatic Jewish support for open borders. Lunatic, of course, for the notion that Jews will be safer and fare better in a nation that bears no resemblance to the one that welcomed them with open arms and basically enabled them to prosper and run the country. (Cue video of standing ovations in Congress for Israeli leader.)

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    • Replies: @Alden
    There are free Jewish publications scattered all over my neighborhood I read them regularly. A continuing theme for decades is that Jees do best in splintered multi ethnic multi religious multi cultural societies. The Turkish empire is always held up as the ideal place for Jews to flourish. We all know that the Turkiah empire ruled hundreds of different nations and ethnic groups

    Read The Forward, Los Angeles and your local Jewish Journal, the ADL &AJC publications. They constantly push for more diversity and more difference so the Jews can rule over squabbling goyim.
    , @Clyde

    David Gelbaum alone gave $100 million – and $20 million annually thereafter – to the Sierra Club on condition that if the Club ever “came out anti-immigration” it would receive no more money from him.

    Ostensibly it was based on his fond memories of his immigrant grandparents and his wanting to ensure that no one else should be denied the opportunity to emmigrate here, iirc, America to remain the sponge to the entire world to clean up every social and economic problem known to man. A dumping ground as it were.

    Moreover, Gelbaum’s dear grandparents were illegals, iirc. They were refused entry in New York for health reasons and had to sneak in from Canada. This is the option Gelbaum wants to preserve, assuming I’ve provided an accurate account. Or even if not. Open borders is not about legal immigration. I can’t document that (illegal entry, health rejection) now but let’s leave it that Gelbaum simply doesn’t want to “dishonor the memory” of his grandparents. For that, whites should not object to 47 million immigrants.
     

    I have been aware of Gelbaum and his bribing the Sierra Club for at least ten years. Before Gelbaum the Sierra Club was vocal about not crowding millions of third worlders into America thus trashing our ecology. The immigrant burden on Califonia's water supply and eco-systems is very obvious these days.
    Gelbaum's wife is Mexican derived. He likes tending his vegetable garden with her.
    For decades I have been against America being a dumping ground for the third world.

    About Gelbaum's grandparents sneaking in here via Canada.... I would appreciate if you can post anything more on this. Never heard this one before.

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  55. Clyde says:
    @Marcus
    Not technically Israeli (or does he have dual citizenship?) but Sheldon Adelson and a lot of other Israel-backers tend to be a pro-immigration influence in the GOP.

    Not technically Israeli (or does he have dual citizenship?) but Sheldon Adelson and a lot of other Israel-backers tend to be a pro-immigration influence in the GOP.

    Not all US Jews are fervent backers of Israel. Many are atheistic and non-committal when it comes to Israel. The number of dual citizenship Mexicans and Central Americans far outnumbers the US Jews who are also Israeli citizens.
    Are US Jews mostly Democrat and mostly for loose and stupid immigration policies such as what Obama has been doing? The answer is yes. But it is just plain dumb to claim that Israelis living here (USA) are influencing US immigration policies.

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    • Replies: @Marcus
    Pro-Israel and Israel-connected Jews punch above their weight. Also look at instances of both Israeli nationals and pro-Israel Jews spying in the US for Israel. You are right that Israel isn't the top issue for most American Jews and many of them are would agree that Israel is an immoral colonial state, so you can't really accuse those of hypocrisy.
    , @Chris Mallory

    The number of dual citizenship Mexicans and Central Americans far outnumbers the US Jews who are also Israeli citizens.
     
    Name the powerful Mexicans and Central Americans who control the Federal Reserve, the US defense apparatus, the US intelligence agencies, and who direct that the state of Mexico gets 38 billion tax dollars over the next 10 years. Also, name the number of dual Mexican citizens in the US Senate and the US House. I will wait.
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  56. Clyde says:
    @Druid
    Moslems don't worship Mohammad . Your ignorance is widespread, unfortunately, especially on faux news

    Moslems don’t worship Mohammad . Your ignorance is widespread, unfortunately, especially on faux news.

    WRONG! The net of their religious practices amounts to Muhammad worship and I am not the first to claim this. Not by a long shot. And Fox New has nothing to do with it. Calling them faux news is what infantile leftists do.

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  57. Clyde says:
    @Taco

    There are not enough powerful Israelis in the USA or Europe to influence immigration politics.
     
    This where your trolling went from mediocre to terrible. A good troll will leave a lot of doubt in readers' minds about whether he actually believes what he is writing. You have to wait a lot longer before you start spouting patent nonsense. A decent effort though.

    Name the powerful Israelis in Europe and America. Who do you have in mind? Who are these Israelis who are calling the shots? I really want to know…..lol…. You are tripping.

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    • Replies: @Art
    I see our Little Jew Clyde – the Zionist zombie – is typing his little fingers off today.

    He has all the Big Jew hasbara talking points down pat. He learned them by the age of ten.

    His parents and the Big Jew culture started terrorizing him at a young age – telling him that all the Gentiles hated him and wanted to kill him. This is traumatic to young minds. That is nothing less than child abuse. As a result, he is a Zionist zombie – with NO moral compunction, he will mindlessly lie and lie and lie for his tribe.

    Zionism (a manifestation of Jew culture) is truly a cruel tribal ideology.
    , @Jacques Sheete

    Who are these Israelis who are calling the shots?
     
    You're kidding, right? Or maybe this doesn't meet your standards...

    The Obama Administration sent Secretary of State John Kerry to Israel to insist on a cease fire in Gaza. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu responds not only with a no but with a “hell no” and Kerry backed down, but Bibi didn’t let it end there,telling Kerry and US Ambassador Daniel Shapiro “don’t ever second guess me again.”

    http://www.unz.com/article/americans-should-be-ashamed/

     

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  58. Clyde says:
    @Jacques Sheete

    Islam is the world’s most successful imperialism. It has a fourteen century track record of barbaric conquest and annihilation.
     
    So the US is only about 250 years behind?

    I wonder how the people of India feel about Brit imperialism. Tens of millions died due to their malfeasance.

    What about King Leopold's Congo Free State? Talk about annihilation and a few other hideous crimes against humanity!

    Don't even get me started on Marxists...few of which were Muslim.

    Why are you deflecting on the fourteen centuries of barbaric Islamic imperialism, genocide and ethnic/religious cleansing? Why do you promote yourself as a defender of the Islamic faith? I don’t get it. I am assuming you are not Muslim, but I could be wrong.
    What is your attraction to Islam?

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    • Replies: @Jacques Sheete
    Why, why, why?

    Why so many questions in the form of straw men?

    Here's a question for you...

    Why so much hatred for another Abrahamic religion, when the real problems emanate from the corrupt leadership in government and business as always and has little or nothing to do with religion or the lack thereof?

    Here's another...

    Do you deny that there are Israelis and sympathizers who are calling the shots? Why? How long a list do you want?
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  59. Marcus says:
    @Clyde

    Not technically Israeli (or does he have dual citizenship?) but Sheldon Adelson and a lot of other Israel-backers tend to be a pro-immigration influence in the GOP.
     
    Not all US Jews are fervent backers of Israel. Many are atheistic and non-committal when it comes to Israel. The number of dual citizenship Mexicans and Central Americans far outnumbers the US Jews who are also Israeli citizens.
    Are US Jews mostly Democrat and mostly for loose and stupid immigration policies such as what Obama has been doing? The answer is yes. But it is just plain dumb to claim that Israelis living here (USA) are influencing US immigration policies.

    Pro-Israel and Israel-connected Jews punch above their weight. Also look at instances of both Israeli nationals and pro-Israel Jews spying in the US for Israel. You are right that Israel isn’t the top issue for most American Jews and many of them are would agree that Israel is an immoral colonial state, so you can’t really accuse those of hypocrisy.

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    • Replies: @Clyde

    You are right that Israel isn’t the top issue for most American Jews and many of them are would agree that Israel is an immoral colonial state.
     
    No you are projecting with that lefty/commie BS about immoral colonial states. But Israel is not on their minds very often. So if Obama whacks Israel around, disses Netanyahu, enables and pays billions to Iran to get all nuked up, its not on their radar.
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  60. MMM says:

    “Unfortunately, whoever is elected, the pilgrimages to worship at the feet of Benjamin Netanyahu will continue, bringing to mind Patrick Buchanan’s apt description of a shameless and corrupted congress as “Israeli occupied territory.” Indeed.”

    If Trump wins and doesn’t cave in it can also, possibly, be a turning point… the zionists have pitted themselves against him… Trump is not hell-bent on destroying whatever is in the way of zionist hegemony… he is not putting “Israel” first.

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  61. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @alexander
    This is an excellent point, Anonymous.

    And well stated too.

    The amount of inflation since 1913 is not an indicator of nefarious , sinister, and "crippling" back room policy making by the federal reserve.

    It never was.

    BUT the call to a "decade and a half" of perpetual "war-making" (by the Neocons) based on fraudulent rationales, IS deeply sinister. Moreover, these nefarious policies have "extracted" trillions of dollars from our economy beyond what we could afford to spend.

    And since these wars were wholly of CHOICE, and Americans were deceived into war making in the first place, the 20 trillion dollar price tag is an abomination.

    I am one who believes that generating humongous DEBT by overspending on things wholly outside the parameters of our constitutional mandates is "poison" for our country.

    Starting wars of aggression is not only OUTSIDE our mandates as a Nation , its a heinous criminal act.

    There are going to be big problems in the future, when we realize we cannot float this level of debt in perpetuity, somebody is going to have to pay for these wars, sometime.

    If the Neocons were all required BY LAW to pay UP FRONT from their own pockets, for the wars THEY chose to start, I do not believe a single shot would ever have been fired.

    I certainly don't want the burden of these war debts placed squarely on the shoulders of our great grand children .....especially when they had absolutely NO say in the matter of "starting them".

    Do you ?

    I agree with every point you make.

    Read More
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  62. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @nsa
    Nice try. You existence is preferable to that of Louis the 14th because Louie did not have a blender, iphone, or the porn channel? Oh, and a stable dollar or even deflation is actually good for those working for a living doing something useful. Inflationary joonomics is better only for the masses of botched freeloaders inhabiting the modern welfare-warfare state.....and their jooie masters.

    Ever more efficient manufacturing techniques and line organization, scientific discoveries, division of labor and investment capital work together in a virtuous cycle that produces more goods and services this year than were produced last year. This frees some workers to make new, different, interesting and novel stuff. We all gain.

    Today we have all benefitted from medical advances that have reduced infant mortality and extended our life expectancy. While your teeth can be filled or extracted with the aid of anesthetic, a worker in the past was not so fortunate.

    “Porn channel”? That’s your example of one of the benefits of modern times?

    Both Mike Whitney and Michael Hudson on this site write informative essays dealing with the two economies in America today–the financial one and the productive one. You seem to be conflating the two. No one denies that Wall Street is peopled by a bunch of parasitic sociopaths whose criminal antics threaten the real economy–except them.

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  63. Wally says: • Website
    @Anonymous
    The first part of your comment is historically true. Jews have dominated the Fed. But you lose credibility with the last few lines. A dollar today may not literally have the purchasing power of one in 1913, but a person's income today affords him a lifestyle that only a king could have dreamed of in 1913. As long as we become more productive as a whole, a modest amount of inflation is offset by both gains in population and the need to expand the money supply to enable consumers to buy the new products created by our increased productivity.

    If there were no debt in our economy, then what you say would be true or at least plausible. But deflation--which is what you advocate--really harms debtors, and, since we're all debtors, your scenario just won't wash. Your scenario makes the Rich i.e. the creditors, richer because the debt they own is being serviced by more valuable money than that under which the debt was contracted.

    If we lived in a cash on the barrel economy, then what you say would be true. But massive investment in gigantic factories, dams etc. rule that out. Debt is integral to a modern manufacturing economy--and we're better off for it. A cash-bound economy is a backwards economy.

    And another creepy Zionist on the US Supreme court. That makes it four.

    All just a coincidence.

    [MORE]

    Who demands mass immigration into white gentile countries, but stops non-Jew immigration into “that shitty little country”?
    Who runs the Federal Reserve?
    Who runs Wall Street?
    Who owns the US Congress?
    Who owns the White House?
    Who forces acceptance of the fictitious & impossible ’6M & gas chambers’?
    Who runs the media / entertainment?
    Who runs the music business?
    Who dominates ‘academia’?
    Why is AIPAC the most powerful, dominant lobby, which regularly writes the text of Congressional bills and resolutions?
    Who is it that wants to censor free speech via the “hate speech” canard?
    Who is it that demands we shed the blood of US troops for their interests?
    Who are the real & biggest racists on the planet?

    Read More
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  64. Talha says:
    @Clyde
    Islam is the world's most successful imperialism. It has a fourteen century track record of barbaric conquest and annihilation. You can turn to the Armenian and Greek genocides of the 1920's for a fine example of mass murder of millions by Muslims. In this case the Turks and their Ottoman Empire. The Aztec bloodletters with their human sacrifices of thousands at a time were not around so long. Muhammad's legacy is far more bloody and enduring.
    In fact it is still with us today in the form of ISIS and other Koran quoting barbarians.

    I don’t know why anybody should buy this claim. In the age of empires, Muslims certainly had a fairly good run and took credit for rolling up the Persian and Byzantine empires. The Mongols rolled up most of the Eastern Muslim lands – then kind of switched sides and went ‘Muzzie’ (at least a few of the Khanates). For much of this time, the Europeans were militarily inferior and too busy beating the crap out of each other – but that practice helped because…once the Europeans turned their franchise around (16th century for the Latins and 17th century for the East) – woah brother – they pretty much had everyone else on the run (including the various Muslim kingdoms) and brought them to heel within remarkably short order. Napolean decimated Ottoman garrisons – while outnumbered in the Levant and Egypt – again and again. I believe his only defeats came when former French officers were commanding on the Ottoman side or when the British lent support.

    Though the British were not able to hold on to it for long, they hold the record for the most territory under their empire (“Rule, rule – Britannia!”) and if all the European empires are taken in under one flag as ‘Western Christendom’ (as people – not mentioning any names – like to lump in Sokoto, Demak, Ghaznavids, Almoravids. Mughals under ‘one Islamic flag’) – nothing comes close since the last 5 centuries. Here, this dynamic map is really well put together:

    Sorry if I don’t jump at the bogeyman of rampant “Islamic Imperialism” which has been a sputtering mess or a bad joke for the last few centuries – what was the last successful battle against a European army – Gallipoli? And that was mostly engineered by a German general. Much of the recent Muslim military history has involved defensive battles just trying to keep things together.

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Clyde
    If you don't think that Islam is most barbaric, most successful and most enduring imperialism then you tell me what is. A fourteen century track record of imperialism, conquering-decimating-converting the Christian Middle East in the 7th century AD, forced religious conversions everywhere Islam conquered, mass killings in imperialistic wars for lebensraum beats all others. You can also add Islam's treatment of dhimmi peoples.
    Tell me what imperialism has been more successful than this.
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  65. Clyde says:
    @Marcus
    Pro-Israel and Israel-connected Jews punch above their weight. Also look at instances of both Israeli nationals and pro-Israel Jews spying in the US for Israel. You are right that Israel isn't the top issue for most American Jews and many of them are would agree that Israel is an immoral colonial state, so you can't really accuse those of hypocrisy.

    You are right that Israel isn’t the top issue for most American Jews and many of them are would agree that Israel is an immoral colonial state.

    No you are projecting with that lefty/commie BS about immoral colonial states. But Israel is not on their minds very often. So if Obama whacks Israel around, disses Netanyahu, enables and pays billions to Iran to get all nuked up, its not on their radar.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Marcus
    There are some strongly anti-Israel Jews: N Finkelstein, Max Blumenthal, the Mondoweiss people, etc. Most don't feel strongly about it or are somewhere between them and Adelson. I don't think Obama has been any harder on Israel than other presidents, see Reagan pushing through the Saudi AWACS deal over Israeli objections.
    , @Chris Mallory
    Obama is the best friend Israel ever had, other than every other US president for the past 50 years. He has Bibi's hand up his backside making his lips move when he talks.
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  66. Clyde says:
    @Talha
    I don't know why anybody should buy this claim. In the age of empires, Muslims certainly had a fairly good run and took credit for rolling up the Persian and Byzantine empires. The Mongols rolled up most of the Eastern Muslim lands - then kind of switched sides and went 'Muzzie' (at least a few of the Khanates). For much of this time, the Europeans were militarily inferior and too busy beating the crap out of each other - but that practice helped because...once the Europeans turned their franchise around (16th century for the Latins and 17th century for the East) - woah brother - they pretty much had everyone else on the run (including the various Muslim kingdoms) and brought them to heel within remarkably short order. Napolean decimated Ottoman garrisons - while outnumbered in the Levant and Egypt - again and again. I believe his only defeats came when former French officers were commanding on the Ottoman side or when the British lent support.

    Though the British were not able to hold on to it for long, they hold the record for the most territory under their empire ("Rule, rule - Britannia!") and if all the European empires are taken in under one flag as 'Western Christendom' (as people - not mentioning any names - like to lump in Sokoto, Demak, Ghaznavids, Almoravids. Mughals under 'one Islamic flag') - nothing comes close since the last 5 centuries. Here, this dynamic map is really well put together:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymI5Uv5cGU4

    Sorry if I don't jump at the bogeyman of rampant "Islamic Imperialism" which has been a sputtering mess or a bad joke for the last few centuries - what was the last successful battle against a European army - Gallipoli? And that was mostly engineered by a German general. Much of the recent Muslim military history has involved defensive battles just trying to keep things together.

    Peace.

    If you don’t think that Islam is most barbaric, most successful and most enduring imperialism then you tell me what is. A fourteen century track record of imperialism, conquering-decimating-converting the Christian Middle East in the 7th century AD, forced religious conversions everywhere Islam conquered, mass killings in imperialistic wars for lebensraum beats all others. You can also add Islam’s treatment of dhimmi peoples.
    Tell me what imperialism has been more successful than this.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha

    Tell me what imperialism has been more successful than this.
     
    Depends on your metric of imperialism. I already told you mine, the Brits win, hands down - with the Mongols a close second.

    A fourteen century track record of imperialism
     
    Please, let's get factual. Muslims were on the defensive for the past few centuries, so let's give you about 12 centuries to make it accurate.

    conquering-decimating-converting the Christian Middle East in the 7th century AD
     
    Conquering and decimating is quite correct. The early Muslims had a way with the sword and the spear. They weren't all that great with siege warfare, but why would they need to be when the enemy foolishly met them in pitched battles on the plains. Converting was of course supposed to be part of the whole endeavor, why do you think there were policies that encouraged conversion? But most of the Christians stayed firm on their faith until a critical juncture, they made a switch over to the Arabic language - this made a huge difference.
    “The larger context was an increase of tension and isolation among Christian communities that, having adopted the Arabic language among themselves, and having come to realize that the rule of Islam was definitively there to stay, found their own numbers decreasing through peaceful conversion to Islam.” - Michael Bonner - Jihad in Islamic History
    http://press.princeton.edu/titles/8280.html

    "Now the policy of the Abbasid caliphs to promote conversion to Islam through the promise of full participation in political and cultural life, coupled with the added incentive of relief from the jizyah, and religious and social restrictions, made it increasingly attractive for non-Muslims to abandon their ancestral religions."
    "Yet, although Arabic developed dramatically as a language of literature and commerce, it retained its character as a sacred language heavily laden with Quranic presuppositions and definitions."
    "The problem was thrown into relief when Christians tried to articulate ideas in terminology already dominated by Qur'anic images. For example, the notion of tawhid (monotheistic belief) had essentially been defined by the Qur'an to exclude multiplicity in God, as contrasted to shirk (associating others with God). This made it difficult for Christians to explain and defend the doctrine of the Trinity in Arabic as consistent with monotheism without being accused of polytheism, and consquently idolatry." - Defending the "People of Truth" in the Early Islamic Period : The Christian Apologies of Abu Ra'itah
    https://www.amazon.com/Defending-People-Truth-Islamic-Period/dp/9004148019

    forced religious conversions everywhere Islam conquered
     
    BS - cite your sources for this. Every single academic work I have ever come across acknowledges both that instances of forced conversion did happen (Jews under Almohads in Spain, Devshirme of Christian children by Ottomans, etc.) and that these were abnormal events.

    You can also add Islam’s treatment of dhimmi peoples.
     
    Which was fairly reasonable in certain instances and fairly brutal in others - depending on who was in charge and how rules were interpreted. Here is a pretty balanced account:
    "This article will show that, for centuries, perhaps a millennium, during which Islam dominated the area, conflict between Jews, Christians and Muslims was the exception, not the norm..."
    "Positions in government administration and the economy were open to dhimmis. In fact, from the Arab conquest to the beginning of the eighth century, the language of the administration remained Persian in Iraq and Greek in Egypt and Syria. Only dhimmis, especially Christians, had the linguistic and administrative skills to keep the government functioning...Although tolerated, protected, and many of them well-to-do, Christians and Jews were not without complaints under Islamic rule. They lived under certain legal and social disabilities. They were considered subjects, not citizens on an equal level with Muslims. Muslims were first class, dhimmis second."
    http://www.syriacstudies.com/2013/07/09/christians-and-jews-under-islam-najib-saliba-phd/ (Prof. Najib Saliba - Lebanese Orthodox Christian)

    Just because you (or your mentor, Robert Spencer, a great boon to his Zionist masters [that help fund him]) only look at the worst instances of history to buttress your viewpoints doesn't mean the rest of us do.

    Peace.
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  67. @Alden
    King Leopold's atrocities were British propaganda. Motive was simple, Britain wanted Congo. So Britain created the atrocities. 20 years later during WW1 Britain created stories of German atrocities to con America into war.

    Britain is a master at propaganda and the Belgian Congo atrocities were nothing but propaganda so the British could justify going in and taking over Congo itself.

    Britain is a master at propaganda

    While that is certainly true, the follwing will need some documentation.

    …and the Belgian Congo atrocities were nothing but propaganda so the British could justify going in and taking over Congo itself.

    Anyway, why did the Belgians decide to take it over and call it the Belgian Congo instead of the Brits?

    On a side note regarding perfidious and treacherous Albion, I wonder how many know that the Brits ran horrible, terroristic concentration camps in Kenya up to and including the 1950s.

    Here’s a good read:

    https://www.amazon.com/Imperial-Reckoning-Untold-Story-Britains/dp/0805080015

    Read More
    • Replies: @Alden
    Belgium took over the Congo and began extracting gold, ivory, rubber and other things. Congo is basically a treasure house of natural resources.

    Belgium profited. Britian wanted in. Despite the efforts of the British to create an international army of moralistic do gooders to invade Cobgo, drive out the Belgians and give it to Britian to save the locals, Belgium managed to hold on to it.

    The British picked on a Belgian colony because Belgium is a small country with a small army. Britian didn't pick on any French colonies because France and the U.K. Are pretty evenly matched in terms of armies and population. Remember a big reason Britian fomented WW1 with Germany was because Germany was moving in on Africa and had established a colony just northwest of S Africa, Namambia???

    And yes I do know that the British established concentration camps in Kenya during the 1950s. Did you know that the Mau mau kikuyu tribe spent the 1950s killing off the other tribes so the kikuyu would rule when the British left?
    , @Beefcake the Mighty
    The first concentration camps were set up by the British during the Boer Wars, in response to Boer guerilla warfare. About 25,000 women and children perished there. And of course it was the British, not the Germans, who initiated terror bombing during WW2. (Rotterdam and Warsaw were ancillary to the primary military target, the British intentionally bombed civilian targets well behind the front lines. Although, unlike the Americans, the British at least had the honesty to admit they would be prosecuted as war criminals if they lost the war.) Don't forget the forced famine in Bengal that killed 1M. I'm barely scratching the surface of British perfidy, suffice to say they have killled far more people than anything the Germans have been realistically accused of.
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  68. Alden says:
    @Ace
    David Gelbaum alone gave $100 million - and $20 million annually thereafter - to the Sierra Club on condition that if the Club ever "came out anti-immigration" it would receive no more money from him.

    Ostensibly it was based on his fond memories of his immigrant grandparents and his wanting to ensure that no one else should be denied the opportunity to emmigrate here, iirc, America to remain the sponge to the entire world to clean up every social and economic problem known to man. A dumping ground as it were.

    Moreover, Gelbaum's dear grandparents were illegals, iirc. They were refused entry in New York for health reasons and had to sneak in from Canada. This is the option Gelbaum wants to preserve, assuming I've provided an accurate account. Or even if not. Open borders is not about legal immigration. I can't document that (illegal entry, health rejection) now but let's leave it that Gelbaum simply doesn't want to "dishonor the memory" of his grandparents. For that, whites should not object to 47 million immigrants.

    The ADL and BB caught the next rocket sled to Arizona when it enacted legislation to permit cops to enquire as to immigration status in making traffic stops. Organized US Jewry to the open-borders ramparts!

    That's an eminently fair assessment, I think. Jews for illegal third-world immigration! With some honorable exceptions, I don't see any visible objection on the part of patriotic Jews. Nothing like the strong, unabashed support for the Jewish ethnostate.

    My prediction is that rather than see such objections the response to arguments about Jewish support for open borders will be the charge of "anti-Semite." (Non-Jewish morons like the Catholic and Mormon churches also advocate open borders but that's another story.)

    Adelson's no. 1 issue is Israel and he is also an open borders kinda guy. He donates millions to Republicans, as Saban and Singer do to the Dems. The latter two are also open borders guys. You've heard of the Adelson primary which has amazing implications for American politics in general and open borders in particular. Newt, financed by Adelson, was without question in Adelson's pocket.

    No, these are not Israelis but surely you don't maintain that Israeli policies are not in lock step with American Jewish ones.

    The MacDonald thesis of diluting white majorities is a bizarre one (because what he describes is bizarre) but I've yet to see one that better explains the yet-more-lunatic Jewish support for open borders. Lunatic, of course, for the notion that Jews will be safer and fare better in a nation that bears no resemblance to the one that welcomed them with open arms and basically enabled them to prosper and run the country. (Cue video of standing ovations in Congress for Israeli leader.)

    There are free Jewish publications scattered all over my neighborhood I read them regularly. A continuing theme for decades is that Jees do best in splintered multi ethnic multi religious multi cultural societies. The Turkish empire is always held up as the ideal place for Jews to flourish. We all know that the Turkiah empire ruled hundreds of different nations and ethnic groups

    Read The Forward, Los Angeles and your local Jewish Journal, the ADL &AJC publications. They constantly push for more diversity and more difference so the Jews can rule over squabbling goyim.

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    • Replies: @Ace
    Thank you. I will. MEMRI does good work in capturing Muslim intramural conversation and I have no doubt Jewish such conversation would be similarly instructive.

    A Non-Jewish lady friend once dated a Jewish man and attended synagogue with him. The rabbi pointedly asked if everyone was family, or words to that effect, and, assuming only family was present, went on to discuss some matter that showed, shall we say, a somewhat "parochial" way thinking. I don't remember the details, but the entre nous preface was crystal clear. Do Baptists talk like that in church?

    A Swiss journalist got himself kidnapped by the Germans before WWII for publishing a too-accurate order of battle for the Wehrmacht. They demanded he reveal his agent network but he explained that he only combed the smallest of newspapers for items reporting, for example, that Cpl Schmidt was home for a week from the 423 Motorized Mess Kit Repair Regiment in Mülheim. He was released after protest by foreign journalists but rekidnapped during the war, which did not survive.

    Anyway, an excellent point about open source intel. And whatever that shows, you don't have to study the Pollard case or accounts of the sayonim to realize that there is a visible and a hidden side to the activities of some Jews.

    I am mindful of the kindness and patriotism of Jews of my acquaintance (and much more) but there are others for whom the Zionist/dual loyalty tractor beam exerts a strong pull. I don't see it discussed openly among Jews and strangely it seems to fall to non-Jews to try to outline the nature and extent of "the problem" - with attendant risk of being labeled you-know-what.

    The outrageous attack on Diana West also has roots in this hidden side of secular, ultra-leftist Jews who did not like any discussion of the true extent of communist influence in the Roosevelt administration and afterwards. Since Jews played an enormous role in 1930s communism and afterwards it's been extremely important to them to conceal the true story of American communism. (The case of David Horowitz is still an anomaly. His disdain for her makes no sense. He has a lot of integrity I think and think either tribal loyalty is stronger than I realize or his donor base got on his case, as with Gatestone.)

    There are several facets to the thinking of some Jews. For the life of me I don't understand why many (?) Jews seem to think that gentiles are perennially on the the point of organizing a pogrom and how could anyone even suggest that Jews could have attitudes and behaviors that would alienate nearby non-Jews. But they do and hence the Barbara Lerner Spectres of this world, I guess
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  69. Marcus says:
    @Clyde

    You are right that Israel isn’t the top issue for most American Jews and many of them are would agree that Israel is an immoral colonial state.
     
    No you are projecting with that lefty/commie BS about immoral colonial states. But Israel is not on their minds very often. So if Obama whacks Israel around, disses Netanyahu, enables and pays billions to Iran to get all nuked up, its not on their radar.

    There are some strongly anti-Israel Jews: N Finkelstein, Max Blumenthal, the Mondoweiss people, etc. Most don’t feel strongly about it or are somewhere between them and Adelson. I don’t think Obama has been any harder on Israel than other presidents, see Reagan pushing through the Saudi AWACS deal over Israeli objections.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Clyde
    You remark is mostly accurate but Obama is our very own Third World president running an occupation government in Washingtoon DC. Don't blame me if most Americans are oblivious to this.
    His father was third worlder and did not even bother to illegally immigrate here. He dropped his bad seed here into a young, naive, 17 year old American woman named Ann Dunham and was then gonezo back to Kenya.
    Now as a good loyal Third Worlder you think Obama likes Israel? Or is neutral on Israel? This is crazy. His prime act of sabotage and revenge again Israel was the big Iran deal. Helping/paying out billions to Iran to develop nuclear weapons over time. Any white European person who thinks Muslims + nukes is a good thing is clinically insane.
    Muslims are in love with terrorism, always have been, and nukes are the ultimate terrorist weapon. They make your terrorist threats much more credible.
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  70. So if Obama whacks Israel around, disses Netanyahu, enables and pays billions to Iran to get all nuked up, its not on their radar.

    Are we suggesting that Iran steal the material and technology for their nukes instead?

    Anyway, here are a few pertinent and gentle reminders about how the game’s been played. Rmember the NUMEC scandal?

    “There is … evidence that some fissionable material available for Israel’s weapons development was illegally obtained from the United States about 1965,” Mr. Kissinger noted in his long memorandum.

    “This is one program on which the Israelis have persistently deceived us,”
    Mr. Kissinger said, “and may even have stolen from us.”

    http://wakeupfromyourslumber.com/node/4817

    Rupert Murdoch, the FOX guy is clean as a whistle, right? We can trust him right?

    It seems that Arnon Milchan is not only a big Hollywood producer but he also traded nuclear triggers with Israel and did a deal with Murdoch for $200 million.

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/09/26/the-hollywood-big-shot-and-israels-nuclear-triggers/

    Meanwhile…Some blame Muslims…

    “The Israeli press is picking up Grant Smith’s revelation from FBI documents that Benjamin Netanyahu was part of an Israeli smuggling ring that spirited nuclear triggers out of the U.S. in the 80s and 90s.”

    http://mondoweiss.net/2012/07/netanyahu-implicated-in-nuclear-smuggling-from-u-s-big-story-in-israel.html

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    • Replies: @Alden
    In 1947 Jewish American army pilots flew American army planes to Czechoslovakia then under soviet occupation and turned over all the latest American military radar equipment to the communist Czechoslovakian army.

    The soviets reverse engineered the equipment. Patton had a few things to say about the Jewish American military men swarming all over Europe after the end of WW2

    And they are all over the state department and the pentagon. Israeli nationals who are officers in the Israeli army have passed into the most secure areas of the Oentagon where they are free to pick up anything they want.
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  71. Talha says:
    @Clyde
    If you don't think that Islam is most barbaric, most successful and most enduring imperialism then you tell me what is. A fourteen century track record of imperialism, conquering-decimating-converting the Christian Middle East in the 7th century AD, forced religious conversions everywhere Islam conquered, mass killings in imperialistic wars for lebensraum beats all others. You can also add Islam's treatment of dhimmi peoples.
    Tell me what imperialism has been more successful than this.

    Tell me what imperialism has been more successful than this.

    Depends on your metric of imperialism. I already told you mine, the Brits win, hands down – with the Mongols a close second.

    A fourteen century track record of imperialism

    Please, let’s get factual. Muslims were on the defensive for the past few centuries, so let’s give you about 12 centuries to make it accurate.

    conquering-decimating-converting the Christian Middle East in the 7th century AD

    Conquering and decimating is quite correct. The early Muslims had a way with the sword and the spear. They weren’t all that great with siege warfare, but why would they need to be when the enemy foolishly met them in pitched battles on the plains. Converting was of course supposed to be part of the whole endeavor, why do you think there were policies that encouraged conversion? But most of the Christians stayed firm on their faith until a critical juncture, they made a switch over to the Arabic language – this made a huge difference.
    “The larger context was an increase of tension and isolation among Christian communities that, having adopted the Arabic language among themselves, and having come to realize that the rule of Islam was definitively there to stay, found their own numbers decreasing through peaceful conversion to Islam.” – Michael Bonner – Jihad in Islamic History

    http://press.princeton.edu/titles/8280.html

    “Now the policy of the Abbasid caliphs to promote conversion to Islam through the promise of full participation in political and cultural life, coupled with the added incentive of relief from the jizyah, and religious and social restrictions, made it increasingly attractive for non-Muslims to abandon their ancestral religions.”
    “Yet, although Arabic developed dramatically as a language of literature and commerce, it retained its character as a sacred language heavily laden with Quranic presuppositions and definitions.”
    “The problem was thrown into relief when Christians tried to articulate ideas in terminology already dominated by Qur’anic images. For example, the notion of tawhid (monotheistic belief) had essentially been defined by the Qur’an to exclude multiplicity in God, as contrasted to shirk (associating others with God). This made it difficult for Christians to explain and defend the doctrine of the Trinity in Arabic as consistent with monotheism without being accused of polytheism, and consquently idolatry.” – Defending the “People of Truth” in the Early Islamic Period : The Christian Apologies of Abu Ra’itah

    https://www.amazon.com/Defending-People-Truth-Islamic-Period/dp/9004148019

    forced religious conversions everywhere Islam conquered

    BS – cite your sources for this. Every single academic work I have ever come across acknowledges both that instances of forced conversion did happen (Jews under Almohads in Spain, Devshirme of Christian children by Ottomans, etc.) and that these were abnormal events.

    You can also add Islam’s treatment of dhimmi peoples.

    Which was fairly reasonable in certain instances and fairly brutal in others – depending on who was in charge and how rules were interpreted. Here is a pretty balanced account:
    “This article will show that, for centuries, perhaps a millennium, during which Islam dominated the area, conflict between Jews, Christians and Muslims was the exception, not the norm…”
    “Positions in government administration and the economy were open to dhimmis. In fact, from the Arab conquest to the beginning of the eighth century, the language of the administration remained Persian in Iraq and Greek in Egypt and Syria. Only dhimmis, especially Christians, had the linguistic and administrative skills to keep the government functioning…Although tolerated, protected, and many of them well-to-do, Christians and Jews were not without complaints under Islamic rule. They lived under certain legal and social disabilities. They were considered subjects, not citizens on an equal level with Muslims. Muslims were first class, dhimmis second.”
    http://www.syriacstudies.com/2013/07/09/christians-and-jews-under-islam-najib-saliba-phd/ (Prof. Najib Saliba – Lebanese Orthodox Christian)

    Just because you (or your mentor, Robert Spencer, a great boon to his Zionist masters [that help fund him]) only look at the worst instances of history to buttress your viewpoints doesn’t mean the rest of us do.

    Peace.

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    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
    I love your mental gymnastics--I am not being facetious or sarcastic, I do enjoy it because it is entertaining. I can imagine (but if my memory doesn't fail me--we already have been through this one) then, that Robert Reilly and Islamic scholars he worked with are also Robert Spencer's stooges, if to follow your logic? I wonder if Abdurrahman Wahid was also;-) You seem to ignore a reality that Islam and Sharia are not compatible with Christendom on a fundamental level, period. Islam has nothing--zilch--to offer to civilization because it is a complete civilizational failure. Mind you, I am not talking about Eurowussies and American metrosexuals who lost their masculinity long ago and would do anything which can take them out of their pseudo-intellectual misery or would simply be coerced by Muslim mob since they are cowards and simply lack necessary skills. But this is not how it ends. I would suggest you study the dynamics of such events as in Kondopoga or Sagra, you may change your narrative after that. Islam is not welcome nor is it going to be "integrated" on its own terms. It may "win" by destroying (which is Islam's MO) degenerate Western Europe but Eastern One and US are a bit different propositions.
    , @Clyde
    You would lose a debate with Robert Spencer. The Mongols were real super killers/warriors but they did not last fourteen centuries. They lasted what? Three centuries? I give them great credit for administering good spankings to Baghdad (sacked!) and various Muslim cities in Iraq/Syria.
    The British Empire was fairly benign and lasted three centuries or so.

    So top rank Imperialist force still goes to Islam, going strong ever since Muhammad was the first Jihadist, fourteen centuries ago. I like the wacky nuked up Iranians whose real goal is make Jihad on the Sunni Middle East to convert it into Shiite. We will see lots of bloodletting for sure in this wacked out Jihad effort. The early stages which we see fought in the ISIS wars against Assad and Assad regime vs the Muslim Brotherhood. Lots of bad blood there ever since old man Assad leveled Hama Syria 1982, killing 20,000 or so Muslim Brotherhood and their families

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  72. Alden says:
    @Johnny Smoggins
    Sooner or later, every nation which hosts Jews faces the same dilemma; how to get rid of them?

    We are witness, in real time, to the same process which has unfolded at least two hundred times before. Jews move someplace new, make themselves hated all over again for the same reasons that everyone else before hated them. They are cast out (or exterminated depending on how badly they behaved this time) and they move someplace else and start the process anew.

    One would think that a people so allegedly clever would learn something from this but they won't.

    I give Jews another 50 -100 years in North America.

    I read Jewish publications all the time. The Jews just live China right now. They constantly extoll and praise everything Chinese. A bid deal is made of what Chibese and Jews have in common, hard work, entrepreneurs rather than workers, high value on education and strong family values. Intermarriage between Jewish men and Chinese women is highly regarded.
    There were Persian Jewish traders in the Chinese pacific ports going back at least 2,500 years. That is proof that yes we Jews can go to China and prosper
    About 125 years ago Jews began the big jump from Russia to S.Africa and America. By 1960 they were running both countries, that’s only about 80 years after arrival. They did the same thing in both countries, organized the blacks against the ruling Whites. Even Oppenheim now brags that “we were behind the ANC all the time”
    All Americans know how the Jews led the blacks and other minorities and immigrants against the Whites.

    But the Han have never submitted to rule by one of their minorities. So 50 to 100 years from now when the children of Jewish immigrants to China try to stir up some minority ethnic group against the Han I wonder how it will come out.

    One thing I have noticed. Jews always do best in Christian countries due to the fact that Christians use the Old Testament and Christianity began as a Jewish heresy.

    But China is not Christian and they are far more chauvinistic and racist than any ethnic group Jews have ever run into

    Read More
    • Replies: @Frankie P
    The Chinese are pragmatic realists, and as such are well aware of the history of the Jews, and how they latch onto productive societies and bleed them dry for the benefit of the tribe. Are you actually so naive that you believe that the Chinese, with a history longer than that of the Jews and a national population (discounting overseas Chinese) 100X greater than that of worldwide Jewry, a Chinese political modus operandi that is cautious, meticulous and ever-focused on benefitting the Han population, would ever open their arms and give Jews the opportunity to play their shell games, Ponzi schemes (international finance) and subjugation agendas on the Chinese? Have you wondered why the Chinese have kept their economy walled off from and strictly regulated against international currency conversion and investment? Have you considered why the Chinese are constructing a parallel financial system to the established international financial order, providing alternatives to the IMF and World Bank and current SWIFT system? AIIB, BRICS Bank, OBOR (One Belt One Road), CIPS (China International Payment System) = the end of Jewish controlled global banking leverage, end of effective sanctions on countries who refuse to toe America's line, end of CURRENT GLOBAL ORDER!
    AMEN!!!! Now put this on the stove and let it start to cook. Think of 30 years from now, when the Chinese economy is TWICE the size of that of the USA. Eventually, we will all be thanking the Chinese; they will be the ones to free us from this parasitic evil. The question then will be: how well will the Chinese treat us?
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  73. Alden says:
    @Jacques Sheete

    Britain is a master at propaganda
     
    While that is certainly true, the follwing will need some documentation.

    ...and the Belgian Congo atrocities were nothing but propaganda so the British could justify going in and taking over Congo itself.
     
    Anyway, why did the Belgians decide to take it over and call it the Belgian Congo instead of the Brits?

    On a side note regarding perfidious and treacherous Albion, I wonder how many know that the Brits ran horrible, terroristic concentration camps in Kenya up to and including the 1950s.

    Here's a good read:

    https://www.amazon.com/Imperial-Reckoning-Untold-Story-Britains/dp/0805080015

    Belgium took over the Congo and began extracting gold, ivory, rubber and other things. Congo is basically a treasure house of natural resources.

    Belgium profited. Britian wanted in. Despite the efforts of the British to create an international army of moralistic do gooders to invade Cobgo, drive out the Belgians and give it to Britian to save the locals, Belgium managed to hold on to it.

    The British picked on a Belgian colony because Belgium is a small country with a small army. Britian didn’t pick on any French colonies because France and the U.K. Are pretty evenly matched in terms of armies and population. Remember a big reason Britian fomented WW1 with Germany was because Germany was moving in on Africa and had established a colony just northwest of S Africa, Namambia???

    And yes I do know that the British established concentration camps in Kenya during the 1950s. Did you know that the Mau mau kikuyu tribe spent the 1950s killing off the other tribes so the kikuyu would rule when the British left?

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    • Replies: @Jacques Sheete
    Good grief.

    You provided a bunch of info that I already knew, but none of it substantiates your claim that Leopold's atrocities were a myth of Brit propaganda.

    You do get an A+ for this part of your comment tho...


    Remember a big reason Britian (sic) fomented WW1 with Germany was because Germany was moving in on Africa and had established a colony just northwest of S Africa, Namambia???
     
    The Brits were also happy to foment discord between France and Germany over North Africa (specifically Morocco) as well.

    Anyway, remember a big reason Britain fomented WW2 with Germany was because Germany was moving in on the Middle East including Palestine and Iran???

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  74. Alden says:
    @Jacques Sheete

    So if Obama whacks Israel around, disses Netanyahu, enables and pays billions to Iran to get all nuked up, its not on their radar.
     
    Are we suggesting that Iran steal the material and technology for their nukes instead?

    Anyway, here are a few pertinent and gentle reminders about how the game's been played. Rmember the NUMEC scandal?


    “There is … evidence that some fissionable material available for Israel’s weapons development was illegally obtained from the United States about 1965,” Mr. Kissinger noted in his long memorandum.

    “This is one program on which the Israelis have persistently deceived us,”
    Mr. Kissinger said, “and may even have stolen from us.”

    http://wakeupfromyourslumber.com/node/4817


    Rupert Murdoch, the FOX guy is clean as a whistle, right? We can trust him right?

    It seems that Arnon Milchan is not only a big Hollywood producer but he also traded nuclear triggers with Israel and did a deal with Murdoch for $200 million.

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/09/26/the-hollywood-big-shot-and-israels-nuclear-triggers/


    Meanwhile…Some blame Muslims…

    “The Israeli press is picking up Grant Smith’s revelation from FBI documents that Benjamin Netanyahu was part of an Israeli smuggling ring that spirited nuclear triggers out of the U.S. in the 80s and 90s.”

    http://mondoweiss.net/2012/07/netanyahu-implicated-in-nuclear-smuggling-from-u-s-big-story-in-israel.html

    In 1947 Jewish American army pilots flew American army planes to Czechoslovakia then under soviet occupation and turned over all the latest American military radar equipment to the communist Czechoslovakian army.

    The soviets reverse engineered the equipment. Patton had a few things to say about the Jewish American military men swarming all over Europe after the end of WW2

    And they are all over the state department and the pentagon. Israeli nationals who are officers in the Israeli army have passed into the most secure areas of the Oentagon where they are free to pick up anything they want.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jacques Sheete

    And they are all over the state department and the pentagon. Israeli nationals who are officers in the Israeli army have passed into the most secure areas of the Oentagon where they are free to pick up anything they want.
     
    Have you read about the transfer of nuclear technology to Stalin and his goons during ww2? I have little doubt who facilitated that.

    https://archive.org/details/FromMajorJordansDiaries-TheTruthAboutTheUsAndUssr

    Also, this is probably what you're referring to.

    “My fellow escort and I chatted on the way back to our office about how the [Israeli] generals knew where they were going [in the Pentagon] and how [they] didn't have to sign in. I felt a bit dirtied by the whole thing.”

    -Col Karen Kwiatkowski


    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/open-door-policy/
    http://www.salon.com/2004/03/10/osp_moveon/

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  75. @Clyde

    Not technically Israeli (or does he have dual citizenship?) but Sheldon Adelson and a lot of other Israel-backers tend to be a pro-immigration influence in the GOP.
     
    Not all US Jews are fervent backers of Israel. Many are atheistic and non-committal when it comes to Israel. The number of dual citizenship Mexicans and Central Americans far outnumbers the US Jews who are also Israeli citizens.
    Are US Jews mostly Democrat and mostly for loose and stupid immigration policies such as what Obama has been doing? The answer is yes. But it is just plain dumb to claim that Israelis living here (USA) are influencing US immigration policies.

    The number of dual citizenship Mexicans and Central Americans far outnumbers the US Jews who are also Israeli citizens.

    Name the powerful Mexicans and Central Americans who control the Federal Reserve, the US defense apparatus, the US intelligence agencies, and who direct that the state of Mexico gets 38 billion tax dollars over the next 10 years. Also, name the number of dual Mexican citizens in the US Senate and the US House. I will wait.

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  76. @Clyde

    You are right that Israel isn’t the top issue for most American Jews and many of them are would agree that Israel is an immoral colonial state.
     
    No you are projecting with that lefty/commie BS about immoral colonial states. But Israel is not on their minds very often. So if Obama whacks Israel around, disses Netanyahu, enables and pays billions to Iran to get all nuked up, its not on their radar.

    Obama is the best friend Israel ever had, other than every other US president for the past 50 years. He has Bibi’s hand up his backside making his lips move when he talks.

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  77. Rehmat says:
    @Alden
    Excellent! America is indeed an Israeli colony. And American Jews are not even grateful as they constantly file lawsuits designed to destroy American Whites.

    In case anyone wonders I'll start with school desegregation, affirmative action and court decisions that encouraged, aided and abbeted rampant crime and the destruction of our greatest cities with the triple whammy:

    1 dangerous schools courtesy of Jewish ACLU

    2 affirmative action dreck civil service

    3 rampant crime by blacks and other victims of White privileges such as the White privileged waitress or clerk who just wants to take the bus home after her shift ends at 11/pm without being robbed. Raped or murdered by the black storm troopers of liberal Jews.

    Blacks rapping and murdering Jews!!

    Where you learned that when in fact it’s Zionist Jews who are founding rapping and murdering Blacks….

    On December 11, 2015, Daniel Holtzclaw, 29, ex-Oklahoma City police officer, was found guilty of rape, sexual battery and forcible oral sodomy. He was arrested last year and subsequently fired from the police force. Holtzclaw faced a total of 36 counts, of which a jury convicted him of 18.

    How antisemitic, eh! Watch the sobbing filth in court (here) as the verdict was read aloud.

    Holtzclaw’s all 13 victims were Black women ranging from 27 to 50 year of age.

    https://rehmat1.com/2015/12/14/us-jew-cop-found-guilty-of-raping-13-black-women/

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  78. Andrei Martyanov [AKA "SmoothieX12"] says: • Website
    @Talha

    Tell me what imperialism has been more successful than this.
     
    Depends on your metric of imperialism. I already told you mine, the Brits win, hands down - with the Mongols a close second.

    A fourteen century track record of imperialism
     
    Please, let's get factual. Muslims were on the defensive for the past few centuries, so let's give you about 12 centuries to make it accurate.

    conquering-decimating-converting the Christian Middle East in the 7th century AD
     
    Conquering and decimating is quite correct. The early Muslims had a way with the sword and the spear. They weren't all that great with siege warfare, but why would they need to be when the enemy foolishly met them in pitched battles on the plains. Converting was of course supposed to be part of the whole endeavor, why do you think there were policies that encouraged conversion? But most of the Christians stayed firm on their faith until a critical juncture, they made a switch over to the Arabic language - this made a huge difference.
    “The larger context was an increase of tension and isolation among Christian communities that, having adopted the Arabic language among themselves, and having come to realize that the rule of Islam was definitively there to stay, found their own numbers decreasing through peaceful conversion to Islam.” - Michael Bonner - Jihad in Islamic History
    http://press.princeton.edu/titles/8280.html

    "Now the policy of the Abbasid caliphs to promote conversion to Islam through the promise of full participation in political and cultural life, coupled with the added incentive of relief from the jizyah, and religious and social restrictions, made it increasingly attractive for non-Muslims to abandon their ancestral religions."
    "Yet, although Arabic developed dramatically as a language of literature and commerce, it retained its character as a sacred language heavily laden with Quranic presuppositions and definitions."
    "The problem was thrown into relief when Christians tried to articulate ideas in terminology already dominated by Qur'anic images. For example, the notion of tawhid (monotheistic belief) had essentially been defined by the Qur'an to exclude multiplicity in God, as contrasted to shirk (associating others with God). This made it difficult for Christians to explain and defend the doctrine of the Trinity in Arabic as consistent with monotheism without being accused of polytheism, and consquently idolatry." - Defending the "People of Truth" in the Early Islamic Period : The Christian Apologies of Abu Ra'itah
    https://www.amazon.com/Defending-People-Truth-Islamic-Period/dp/9004148019

    forced religious conversions everywhere Islam conquered
     
    BS - cite your sources for this. Every single academic work I have ever come across acknowledges both that instances of forced conversion did happen (Jews under Almohads in Spain, Devshirme of Christian children by Ottomans, etc.) and that these were abnormal events.

    You can also add Islam’s treatment of dhimmi peoples.
     
    Which was fairly reasonable in certain instances and fairly brutal in others - depending on who was in charge and how rules were interpreted. Here is a pretty balanced account:
    "This article will show that, for centuries, perhaps a millennium, during which Islam dominated the area, conflict between Jews, Christians and Muslims was the exception, not the norm..."
    "Positions in government administration and the economy were open to dhimmis. In fact, from the Arab conquest to the beginning of the eighth century, the language of the administration remained Persian in Iraq and Greek in Egypt and Syria. Only dhimmis, especially Christians, had the linguistic and administrative skills to keep the government functioning...Although tolerated, protected, and many of them well-to-do, Christians and Jews were not without complaints under Islamic rule. They lived under certain legal and social disabilities. They were considered subjects, not citizens on an equal level with Muslims. Muslims were first class, dhimmis second."
    http://www.syriacstudies.com/2013/07/09/christians-and-jews-under-islam-najib-saliba-phd/ (Prof. Najib Saliba - Lebanese Orthodox Christian)

    Just because you (or your mentor, Robert Spencer, a great boon to his Zionist masters [that help fund him]) only look at the worst instances of history to buttress your viewpoints doesn't mean the rest of us do.

    Peace.

    I love your mental gymnastics–I am not being facetious or sarcastic, I do enjoy it because it is entertaining. I can imagine (but if my memory doesn’t fail me–we already have been through this one) then, that Robert Reilly and Islamic scholars he worked with are also Robert Spencer’s stooges, if to follow your logic? I wonder if Abdurrahman Wahid was also;-) You seem to ignore a reality that Islam and Sharia are not compatible with Christendom on a fundamental level, period. Islam has nothing–zilch–to offer to civilization because it is a complete civilizational failure. Mind you, I am not talking about Eurowussies and American metrosexuals who lost their masculinity long ago and would do anything which can take them out of their pseudo-intellectual misery or would simply be coerced by Muslim mob since they are cowards and simply lack necessary skills. But this is not how it ends. I would suggest you study the dynamics of such events as in Kondopoga or Sagra, you may change your narrative after that. Islam is not welcome nor is it going to be “integrated” on its own terms. It may “win” by destroying (which is Islam’s MO) degenerate Western Europe but Eastern One and US are a bit different propositions.

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    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey Smoothie,

    You seem to ignore a reality that Islam and Sharia are not compatible with Christendom on a fundamental level, period.
     
    You seem to ignore that I never made that claim in any of my replies to Clyde, stay on point, bro. You also seem to ignore that Christendom of a few centuries ago is also not compatible with Christendom of today on a fundamental level.

    Robert Reilly and Islamic scholars he worked with are also Robert Spencer’s stooges
     
    Never said that. Robert Reilly makes fundamental mistakes on Islam in every article of his that I've read (what Islamic scholars is he working with??!!). And yes, he is also a boon to Zionists, that shouldn't technically count - but of course it does.

    Here he is talking about the invention of the 'Palestinians':
    http://www.crisismagazine.com/2012/why-invent-the-palestinians

    Abdurrahman Wahid made critical assessments of fundamental, systemic problems in the Muslim world. That is quite welcome criticism. Even some well-known Salafi scholars, like Sh. Yusuf Qaradawi has done the same:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Pk2-vr4sSw

    It's called "tough love" and "truth hurts". My teachers are constantly reminding us to look inward and fixing ourselves. It's the false prophet that tells you everything is fine and inflates your ego.

    it is a complete civilizational failure
     

    From a materialist standpoint, quite so. Since when did I ever make the claim that I posit materialist progress as the benchmark of civilization? That is your benchmark, not mine.
    "By Allah, it is not poverty I fear for you, but rather I fear you will be given the wealth of the world just as it was given to those before you. You will compete for it just as they competed for it and it will destroy you just as it destroyed them." - Reported in Bukhari

    coerced by Muslim mob
     
    I've called for Muslim mobs or ethnic Muslim criminal syndicates when exactly? I'm a Sufi, bro. Read through my posts - I state clearly as my teachers do; Muslims must obey the canon of the land and that it is their Islamic duty to do so. If they don't like the rules here, they can leave - it's that simple. If they want to act like a mob and threaten the well-being of other citizens, they should not be tolerated just as Muslims would not tolerate it in their lands. Kick them out - I'm not stopping you.

    Islam is not welcome
     
    Your opinion.

    nor is it going to be “integrated” on its own terms.
     
    Why should it? The Eastern Europeans (Hapsburgs) and Russians (after Ivan brought the Tatar Khanates under his dominion) already provided a reasonable model for integration under their terms. It is basically a reverse-dhimmi model where the Christians are the recognized alpha group. That worked for quite a long time for Russia. The Hapsburgs had elite Muslim Bosniak divisions in their army that served with distinction (they were allowed to wear fez's baby!):
    http://www.naval-military-press.com/emperor-s-bosniaks-the-bosnian-herzegovinian-troops-in-the-k.-u.-k.-army.html

    Western Christendom never really got a good model off the ground because they reneged on the terms of the surrender of the Moors (to allow them to remain in a reverse-dhimmi contract) and booted them out.
    http://voyager.dvc.edu/~mpowell/afam/surrendergranada.pdf

    Eastern Europe and the US have bigger fish to fry and they aren't Muslim fish. If you think a 3% Muslim population is something to worry about, then I am amused at your mental gymnastics to arrive at any confidence in your claim to civilization. Muslims are losing plenty of numbers to atheism and Western secularism, then again, they are gaining plenty of numbers with conversions. This is all in the open, nobody is forcing anyone to convert - people can read what your homeboy, Reilly, says about Islam and see if it appeals to them.

    Peace.

    , @Marcus
    Also Buddhists and Hindus: they're offering better resistance to the Muslims than any Western country: who would've thought!
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  79. @Clyde
    Why are you deflecting on the fourteen centuries of barbaric Islamic imperialism, genocide and ethnic/religious cleansing? Why do you promote yourself as a defender of the Islamic faith? I don't get it. I am assuming you are not Muslim, but I could be wrong.
    What is your attraction to Islam?

    Why, why, why?

    Why so many questions in the form of straw men?

    Here’s a question for you…

    Why so much hatred for another Abrahamic religion, when the real problems emanate from the corrupt leadership in government and business as always and has little or nothing to do with religion or the lack thereof?

    Here’s another…

    Do you deny that there are Israelis and sympathizers who are calling the shots? Why? How long a list do you want?

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  80. neutral says:
    @Clyde
    I have chosen my sides. I am pro-Israel and pro-Western civilization. You can have your Iran and your Muslims. You can have your wacky Sunnis and Shiites. You can have your mass murdering ISIS killing and raping the Christians of Iraq and Syria. Hillary will not be Israel friendly no matter how much she gets in US Jewish donor money so go vote for her. This is my advice to all you Israel obsessives.
    DJT will be neutral on Israel to pro-Israel. Trump is more difficult to predict but he wants us out of the Middle East so this is not Israel helpful.
    You must choose between 1.7 billion brainwashed, Muhammad worshiping Muslims and 17 million Jews who have gentile controlling mind rays at their disposal.
    So which side are you on boys which side are you on?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iAIM02kv0g

    I have chosen my sides and its neither jews or muslims, I fail to see how either benefit me.

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  81. @Alden
    Belgium took over the Congo and began extracting gold, ivory, rubber and other things. Congo is basically a treasure house of natural resources.

    Belgium profited. Britian wanted in. Despite the efforts of the British to create an international army of moralistic do gooders to invade Cobgo, drive out the Belgians and give it to Britian to save the locals, Belgium managed to hold on to it.

    The British picked on a Belgian colony because Belgium is a small country with a small army. Britian didn't pick on any French colonies because France and the U.K. Are pretty evenly matched in terms of armies and population. Remember a big reason Britian fomented WW1 with Germany was because Germany was moving in on Africa and had established a colony just northwest of S Africa, Namambia???

    And yes I do know that the British established concentration camps in Kenya during the 1950s. Did you know that the Mau mau kikuyu tribe spent the 1950s killing off the other tribes so the kikuyu would rule when the British left?

    Good grief.

    You provided a bunch of info that I already knew, but none of it substantiates your claim that Leopold’s atrocities were a myth of Brit propaganda.

    You do get an A+ for this part of your comment tho…

    Remember a big reason Britian (sic) fomented WW1 with Germany was because Germany was moving in on Africa and had established a colony just northwest of S Africa, Namambia???

    The Brits were also happy to foment discord between France and Germany over North Africa (specifically Morocco) as well.

    Anyway, remember a big reason Britain fomented WW2 with Germany was because Germany was moving in on the Middle East including Palestine and Iran???

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    • Replies: @Alden
    It was more like Iran went to Germany for protection against Russia and the UK.

    Russia and the U.K. Made an agreement to occupy big parts of Iran. Russia would and get Azberjian, 1/4 th of Iran in the north east. The U.K. Would get the southern oil patch on the Gulf.

    That is why Iran went to Germany for protection in the late 1930s.
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  82. @Alden
    In 1947 Jewish American army pilots flew American army planes to Czechoslovakia then under soviet occupation and turned over all the latest American military radar equipment to the communist Czechoslovakian army.

    The soviets reverse engineered the equipment. Patton had a few things to say about the Jewish American military men swarming all over Europe after the end of WW2

    And they are all over the state department and the pentagon. Israeli nationals who are officers in the Israeli army have passed into the most secure areas of the Oentagon where they are free to pick up anything they want.

    And they are all over the state department and the pentagon. Israeli nationals who are officers in the Israeli army have passed into the most secure areas of the Oentagon where they are free to pick up anything they want.

    Have you read about the transfer of nuclear technology to Stalin and his goons during ww2? I have little doubt who facilitated that.

    https://archive.org/details/FromMajorJordansDiaries-TheTruthAboutTheUsAndUssr

    Also, this is probably what you’re referring to.

    “My fellow escort and I chatted on the way back to our office about how the [Israeli] generals knew where they were going [in the Pentagon] and how [they] didn’t have to sign in. I felt a bit dirtied by the whole thing.”

    -Col Karen Kwiatkowski

    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/open-door-policy/

    http://www.salon.com/2004/03/10/osp_moveon/

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    • Replies: @Alden
    I don't think I ever read colonel Kiatkowski. There have been many exposes about the Israeli military roaming around the pentagon.
    , @Alden
    I would never read salon or American conservative
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  83. @Alden
    Russia never invaded anyone? Russia invaded east and south for a thousand years. How do you think Russia got to Odessa and the Black Sea? Russia went so Far East it now has a border with China.
    I get it, you think Russia is always right and Poland, Estonia, Uzbekestan, Khazastan and the rest of Central Asia are and were always wrong but why drag your Russian chavaunism into every thread?
    The article is about Israel rule over American foreign policy. Russia is irrevelant.

    Anyway, Israel was founded by Russisn Marxist Jews so the 2 countries have a lot in common

    Alden when has Russia invaded any country since the USSR has dissolved ? So if u want to go and look at all the history. Italian fascist invaded africa . My point is related to post modern era period .PUNTO E BASTA

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  84. annamaria says:
    @Alden
    Russia never invaded anyone? Russia invaded east and south for a thousand years. How do you think Russia got to Odessa and the Black Sea? Russia went so Far East it now has a border with China.
    I get it, you think Russia is always right and Poland, Estonia, Uzbekestan, Khazastan and the rest of Central Asia are and were always wrong but why drag your Russian chavaunism into every thread?
    The article is about Israel rule over American foreign policy. Russia is irrevelant.

    Anyway, Israel was founded by Russisn Marxist Jews so the 2 countries have a lot in common

    “Russia invaded east and south for a thousand years.. Russia went so Far East it now has a border with China..”

    Could you name a state in Siberia that Russia has fought and subjugated? Have you heard about Poland’ wars against Russia before Russia became a state to beckon with? When the state of Estonia was formed?
    The article is about modern world. Could you please name a single Russian invasion during the last 25 years? Come on… And what does make you believe that Russians and Jews have a lot in common? If that were so than the “Two Hundred Years Together” by Alexander Solzhenitsyn would not be sequestered by the US/UK publishers – all of them! Though it is true that Russians should have a deeper understanding of Israelis’ mentality than people of other nations, thanks to the Soviet experiment.

    Moreover, Israel wants the dismemberment of Syria in order to grab the Golan Heights (see Yinon plan for Erez Israel), whereas RF wants to protect her southern borders from jihadis and thus prefers to have a stable and peaceful Syria. What is not clear about this state of affairs?

    Whatever your tried to tell the readers, you came in support for the Kagans’ policies in Ukraine as well as in support of NATO’ direct encroachment on the Russian borders.
    And how close is Ukraine to the US borders? Next door?

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    • Replies: @Alden
    Read my post. I did not write that it's my opinion that the Jews would be able to colonize China as they did America and S Africa.

    I simply reported that the Jewish publications I read seem to be encouraging Jews to infiltrate and take over China.

    I doubt the Han will ever allow immigrant Jews to use the minorities to overthrow the Han.

    But China allowed itself to be taken over by Russia directed communists and then allowed Mao to murder 100 million and destroy their economy.

    So they are not invincible.

    But once more, I simply reported what Jewish publications are writing.
    , @Alden
    I know all about the huge medieval kingdom of Poland/ Lithuania, that Poland once ruled a big part of Ukraine and that its territory once stretched from the Black to the Baltic Sea.

    So what's your point? That Russia and Poland battled over Ukraine 800 years ago? That Ukraine belongs to Russia? Well doesn't it? So what.
    You seem to think Russia is an upright, moral wonderful nation that will never again invade any territory belonging to another nation. Maybe that is true, maybe it isn't

    But to say Russia never invaded any other nation, well.......
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  85. Clyde says:
    @Talha

    Tell me what imperialism has been more successful than this.
     
    Depends on your metric of imperialism. I already told you mine, the Brits win, hands down - with the Mongols a close second.

    A fourteen century track record of imperialism
     
    Please, let's get factual. Muslims were on the defensive for the past few centuries, so let's give you about 12 centuries to make it accurate.

    conquering-decimating-converting the Christian Middle East in the 7th century AD
     
    Conquering and decimating is quite correct. The early Muslims had a way with the sword and the spear. They weren't all that great with siege warfare, but why would they need to be when the enemy foolishly met them in pitched battles on the plains. Converting was of course supposed to be part of the whole endeavor, why do you think there were policies that encouraged conversion? But most of the Christians stayed firm on their faith until a critical juncture, they made a switch over to the Arabic language - this made a huge difference.
    “The larger context was an increase of tension and isolation among Christian communities that, having adopted the Arabic language among themselves, and having come to realize that the rule of Islam was definitively there to stay, found their own numbers decreasing through peaceful conversion to Islam.” - Michael Bonner - Jihad in Islamic History
    http://press.princeton.edu/titles/8280.html

    "Now the policy of the Abbasid caliphs to promote conversion to Islam through the promise of full participation in political and cultural life, coupled with the added incentive of relief from the jizyah, and religious and social restrictions, made it increasingly attractive for non-Muslims to abandon their ancestral religions."
    "Yet, although Arabic developed dramatically as a language of literature and commerce, it retained its character as a sacred language heavily laden with Quranic presuppositions and definitions."
    "The problem was thrown into relief when Christians tried to articulate ideas in terminology already dominated by Qur'anic images. For example, the notion of tawhid (monotheistic belief) had essentially been defined by the Qur'an to exclude multiplicity in God, as contrasted to shirk (associating others with God). This made it difficult for Christians to explain and defend the doctrine of the Trinity in Arabic as consistent with monotheism without being accused of polytheism, and consquently idolatry." - Defending the "People of Truth" in the Early Islamic Period : The Christian Apologies of Abu Ra'itah
    https://www.amazon.com/Defending-People-Truth-Islamic-Period/dp/9004148019

    forced religious conversions everywhere Islam conquered
     
    BS - cite your sources for this. Every single academic work I have ever come across acknowledges both that instances of forced conversion did happen (Jews under Almohads in Spain, Devshirme of Christian children by Ottomans, etc.) and that these were abnormal events.

    You can also add Islam’s treatment of dhimmi peoples.
     
    Which was fairly reasonable in certain instances and fairly brutal in others - depending on who was in charge and how rules were interpreted. Here is a pretty balanced account:
    "This article will show that, for centuries, perhaps a millennium, during which Islam dominated the area, conflict between Jews, Christians and Muslims was the exception, not the norm..."
    "Positions in government administration and the economy were open to dhimmis. In fact, from the Arab conquest to the beginning of the eighth century, the language of the administration remained Persian in Iraq and Greek in Egypt and Syria. Only dhimmis, especially Christians, had the linguistic and administrative skills to keep the government functioning...Although tolerated, protected, and many of them well-to-do, Christians and Jews were not without complaints under Islamic rule. They lived under certain legal and social disabilities. They were considered subjects, not citizens on an equal level with Muslims. Muslims were first class, dhimmis second."
    http://www.syriacstudies.com/2013/07/09/christians-and-jews-under-islam-najib-saliba-phd/ (Prof. Najib Saliba - Lebanese Orthodox Christian)

    Just because you (or your mentor, Robert Spencer, a great boon to his Zionist masters [that help fund him]) only look at the worst instances of history to buttress your viewpoints doesn't mean the rest of us do.

    Peace.

    You would lose a debate with Robert Spencer. The Mongols were real super killers/warriors but they did not last fourteen centuries. They lasted what? Three centuries? I give them great credit for administering good spankings to Baghdad (sacked!) and various Muslim cities in Iraq/Syria.
    The British Empire was fairly benign and lasted three centuries or so.

    So top rank Imperialist force still goes to Islam, going strong ever since Muhammad was the first Jihadist, fourteen centuries ago. I like the wacky nuked up Iranians whose real goal is make Jihad on the Sunni Middle East to convert it into Shiite. We will see lots of bloodletting for sure in this wacked out Jihad effort. The early stages which we see fought in the ISIS wars against Assad and Assad regime vs the Muslim Brotherhood. Lots of bad blood there ever since old man Assad leveled Hama Syria 1982, killing 20,000 or so Muslim Brotherhood and their families

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    • Replies: @Talha
    Thanks for your opinion Clyde, compounding on your other opinions.

    Why the hell would I debate with Robert Spencer - that dude is as dogmatic as I am about Islam - I'm just honest about my position. And I'm not paid by Zionist fund raisers - technically that shouldn't count, but of course it does.

    Peace.

    , @Talha

    I give them great credit for administering good spankings to Baghdad (sacked!) and various Muslim cities in Iraq/Syria.
     
    How did I miss that one - wow! I love the cognitive dissonance in all of this - the gentle Christian critic of the violent Islam - LOL! Never have I ever spoken gleefully or positively about any sack on any city! You can answer to all the thousands of Christian souls that were also raped, tortured, killed in those same 'spankings' when you see them when you are stood up for judgement.

    Peace.
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  86. Art says:
    @Clyde
    Name the powerful Israelis in Europe and America. Who do you have in mind? Who are these Israelis who are calling the shots? I really want to know.....lol.... You are tripping.

    I see our Little Jew Clyde – the Zionist zombie – is typing his little fingers off today.

    He has all the Big Jew hasbara talking points down pat. He learned them by the age of ten.

    His parents and the Big Jew culture started terrorizing him at a young age – telling him that all the Gentiles hated him and wanted to kill him. This is traumatic to young minds. That is nothing less than child abuse. As a result, he is a Zionist zombie – with NO moral compunction, he will mindlessly lie and lie and lie for his tribe.

    Zionism (a manifestation of Jew culture) is truly a cruel tribal ideology.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Well, is that any different when it comes to Palestinian children who stab Israeli (citizens or occupiers, it has no relevance here) or at least try to?

    Like a fine intellectual wrote, the youth is "planted, raised, pruned, cropped".

    Groups of humans that have had it harder than Western gentiles are still nearer to the original tribal condition.
    Western gentiles are the laxer of all, a sign that they had it the less hard than all in the last centuries, probably.

    Before you pedestal them, you may want to ask yourself what they were doing, wrangling against every other like street thugs since the mid-19th to the end of WWII, Germany hating the Brits and France, France hating the Brits and Germany, Spain hating France and Britain, Britain and France seeing Italy and Spain like their pet doormats.
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  87. @Clyde
    Name the powerful Israelis in Europe and America. Who do you have in mind? Who are these Israelis who are calling the shots? I really want to know.....lol.... You are tripping.

    Who are these Israelis who are calling the shots?

    You’re kidding, right? Or maybe this doesn’t meet your standards…

    The Obama Administration sent Secretary of State John Kerry to Israel to insist on a cease fire in Gaza. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu responds not only with a no but with a “hell no” and Kerry backed down, but Bibi didn’t let it end there,telling Kerry and US Ambassador Daniel Shapiro “don’t ever second guess me again.”

    http://www.unz.com/article/americans-should-be-ashamed/

    Read More
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  88. Talha says:
    @Clyde
    You would lose a debate with Robert Spencer. The Mongols were real super killers/warriors but they did not last fourteen centuries. They lasted what? Three centuries? I give them great credit for administering good spankings to Baghdad (sacked!) and various Muslim cities in Iraq/Syria.
    The British Empire was fairly benign and lasted three centuries or so.

    So top rank Imperialist force still goes to Islam, going strong ever since Muhammad was the first Jihadist, fourteen centuries ago. I like the wacky nuked up Iranians whose real goal is make Jihad on the Sunni Middle East to convert it into Shiite. We will see lots of bloodletting for sure in this wacked out Jihad effort. The early stages which we see fought in the ISIS wars against Assad and Assad regime vs the Muslim Brotherhood. Lots of bad blood there ever since old man Assad leveled Hama Syria 1982, killing 20,000 or so Muslim Brotherhood and their families

    Thanks for your opinion Clyde, compounding on your other opinions.

    Why the hell would I debate with Robert Spencer – that dude is as dogmatic as I am about Islam – I’m just honest about my position. And I’m not paid by Zionist fund raisers – technically that shouldn’t count, but of course it does.

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Clyde

    And I’m not paid by Zionist fund raisers – technically that shouldn’t count, but of course it does.
     
    I am sure you could find anti-Israel leftist Jews who would pay you to debate Robert Spencer. Robert Spencer does not live an extravagant life so "The Zionists" you are yapping about must not pay very well. And he knows Muslim wackos could try and kill him at any time. How would you like to live like this? You are aware that Muslims have killed their critics in Europe. Again emulating Muhammad who proclaimed that he had become victorious through terror.
    Remember when Sunni Muslims were bombing all those Shiite mosques and market places in Iraq from 2004-2008? They were murdering 30-100 Shiites at a time via bombings. Car bombs and suicide bombs. This anti-Shiite Jihad was also emulating Muhammad's terrorist tactics that Muhammad bragged about, that had made him victorious.

    "The Prophet Muhammad boasted, “I have been made victorious with terror". [Bukhari: 4.52.220]
     
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  89. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Art
    I see our Little Jew Clyde – the Zionist zombie – is typing his little fingers off today.

    He has all the Big Jew hasbara talking points down pat. He learned them by the age of ten.

    His parents and the Big Jew culture started terrorizing him at a young age – telling him that all the Gentiles hated him and wanted to kill him. This is traumatic to young minds. That is nothing less than child abuse. As a result, he is a Zionist zombie – with NO moral compunction, he will mindlessly lie and lie and lie for his tribe.

    Zionism (a manifestation of Jew culture) is truly a cruel tribal ideology.

    Well, is that any different when it comes to Palestinian children who stab Israeli (citizens or occupiers, it has no relevance here) or at least try to?

    Like a fine intellectual wrote, the youth is “planted, raised, pruned, cropped”.

    Groups of humans that have had it harder than Western gentiles are still nearer to the original tribal condition.
    Western gentiles are the laxer of all, a sign that they had it the less hard than all in the last centuries, probably.

    Before you pedestal them, you may want to ask yourself what they were doing, wrangling against every other like street thugs since the mid-19th to the end of WWII, Germany hating the Brits and France, France hating the Brits and Germany, Spain hating France and Britain, Britain and France seeing Italy and Spain like their pet doormats.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art
    Well, is that any different when it comes to Palestinian children who stab Israeli (citizens or occupiers, it has no relevance here) or at least try to?

    You disgrace humanity with your ugly comparison.
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  90. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    You really need tell us Israel “won”, Giraldi?
    When has it not won?
    Israel and victory are synonyms.

    All the world knows it, and how proud these winners of winners are.
    (Maybe it helps “I am proud” is their most used clause, who knows.)

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  91. you all have got to admit how good the jews and aipac are at making our supposed elites into mere servants.

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  92. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @falcemartello
    Its called the fifth column . The anglo-zionist lobby has been for as long as anyone can remember.
    Ur argument about Iran funding and supporting terrorism is laughable at best. Iran funds and trains against takfiri/wahabism ideology and zionist ideology. It as part of the resistance to anglo-zionist dreams of the Yinon project of a greater Israel. it funds and supports Hezbullah. Recognised legitimate political and military establishment with in the sovereign nation of Lebanon. In 2006 along side Christian phalange and Lebanese army they resisted and pushed back the Israeli criminal onslaught of southern Lebanon.
    Facts are facts and fabricated lies like that \Tehran sponsors terrorism is another. IE: Look at the criminality of the west Israel and the house of Saud against the Yeminites look at Syria are all facts of western and Israeli/GCC criminality against sovereign states/.
    Fabrications of WMD Russian invasion/aggression. Chinese aggression. When will we in the west ever learn from history and all the facts that surround the western aggression towards the world in the name of predatory capitalism and corporatism .
    Facts Iran has never invaded any country
    Fact Russia has never invaded any country. Georgian incidence was instigated by Shakasvilli and the UN report has stated as much hence the Russians moving in decreased the body count of innocent ethnic Russians. Crimea The Russians had a 40 year lease in Crimea to use their military port and bases. hence when Nuland fuk the EU destabilised Ukraine and instigated a coup d'etat and the coup plotters and winners stated quite publicly to burn all russian to hell and then parliament went ahead and made it into law not to recognise the Russian language any longer . What do u think the people of Donbas were to do sit bak at let the fascist burn them alive like they did in Odessa. The Crimeans voted to become part of Russia 96 percent turnout and over 90 percent voted for being made part of Russia.
    China has never invaded any country hence like I have been arguing is the criminal acts of Israel, Saudi Arabia and The US and their results are all their to see .
    So lets examine the facts.
    1: Afghanistan been occupied by the west since 2001 . Heroin production during this period at all time low ( Check Un data for these actual facts) Heroin production has been growing exponentially ever since the western occupation.
    2; Iraq occupation and prior to that bubba Clintons not so advertised war against Iraq ( Madelaine Albright was asked was it worth the death of a million people due to the sanctions imposed and the infrequent bombing by the US during his tenure. She replied yes.Their was noTakfiri s/wahabist in Iraq . We came we bombed/ depleated uranium/Faluja,increase in cancer and look how stable Iraq is today.
    3; Libya: Under Qadaffi had the highest standard of living in all of Africa (Check UN stats). Look at it today. Clinton e-mail scandal and 2012 DIA report state that takfirism and terrorism will grow post these events and Clinton had enabled these events in order to destabilize Syria
    4: Syria all part of the grand scheme and Docius in Fondem last but not least Wesley Clarke blew the whole lid of their deceptive scheme for global hegemony

    Russia has never invaded any country

    I didn’t go on reading after that, and wondered how many would.

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  93. A few comments:

    * It should be obvious that Israel views USA as a strategic foe, in the long run.

    * sure, live like a king but in debt to house of R. Seem to recall the next episode in this king’s life is a fast moving blade and head in a basket. More seriously, wage slavery goes hand in hand with the current economic regime.

    * Clyde: various commentators have answered you effectively. Regarding Islam and the prophet of Islam (SAWS), who was called the “unlettered prophet” and this has been taken to mean “illiterate” but it actually means The Prophet of the Unlettered Nations (in contrast to tribe of Jacob (AS) who got “lettered” — guided, as their semitic language makes clear) and that makes him (using Jewish terminology) The Goyim Prophet. You know, Jesus (AS) was very open about the fact that “I am only sent to the children of Israel”. “scraps from the table of the master” you have been getting, but unless you are capable of leaving everthing earthly possession (c.f. camel and needle) you will NOT enter into the Kingdom. So my advice to you is consider the fact that Muhammad (SAWS) said “I have been sent as a mercy” in context of your being outside the covenant that God made with Jacob (AS).

    * Anti-semitism is strictly a Western phenomena that is fundamentally rooted in the bifurcated power structures of Occident. Levant’s kings never had any need for “King’s Jews” since their intellectuals were not locked behind monestary walls and deeply committed to the rival power structure of the Church of Rome. Every single pogrom of Jews happened at the hand of “Whites”. Remember Clyde: never forgive never forget is the motto of your Israeli “allies”.

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    • Replies: @Alden
    The Romans were complaining about the Jews long before Christianity. Just because monks maintained libraries and colleges does not mean there were no other intellectuals in Europe. Many students at the monastic colleges went back to civilian life and married after they completed their studies.

    The industrial revolution had its roots in a thousand years of ordinary small business men, mechanics and tradesmen coming up with small improvements that led to modern machinery and inventions.
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  94. Talha says:
    @Andrei Martyanov
    I love your mental gymnastics--I am not being facetious or sarcastic, I do enjoy it because it is entertaining. I can imagine (but if my memory doesn't fail me--we already have been through this one) then, that Robert Reilly and Islamic scholars he worked with are also Robert Spencer's stooges, if to follow your logic? I wonder if Abdurrahman Wahid was also;-) You seem to ignore a reality that Islam and Sharia are not compatible with Christendom on a fundamental level, period. Islam has nothing--zilch--to offer to civilization because it is a complete civilizational failure. Mind you, I am not talking about Eurowussies and American metrosexuals who lost their masculinity long ago and would do anything which can take them out of their pseudo-intellectual misery or would simply be coerced by Muslim mob since they are cowards and simply lack necessary skills. But this is not how it ends. I would suggest you study the dynamics of such events as in Kondopoga or Sagra, you may change your narrative after that. Islam is not welcome nor is it going to be "integrated" on its own terms. It may "win" by destroying (which is Islam's MO) degenerate Western Europe but Eastern One and US are a bit different propositions.

    Hey Smoothie,

    You seem to ignore a reality that Islam and Sharia are not compatible with Christendom on a fundamental level, period.

    You seem to ignore that I never made that claim in any of my replies to Clyde, stay on point, bro. You also seem to ignore that Christendom of a few centuries ago is also not compatible with Christendom of today on a fundamental level.

    Robert Reilly and Islamic scholars he worked with are also Robert Spencer’s stooges

    Never said that. Robert Reilly makes fundamental mistakes on Islam in every article of his that I’ve read (what Islamic scholars is he working with??!!). And yes, he is also a boon to Zionists, that shouldn’t technically count – but of course it does.

    Here he is talking about the invention of the ‘Palestinians’:

    http://www.crisismagazine.com/2012/why-invent-the-palestinians

    Abdurrahman Wahid made critical assessments of fundamental, systemic problems in the Muslim world. That is quite welcome criticism. Even some well-known Salafi scholars, like Sh. Yusuf Qaradawi has done the same:

    It’s called “tough love” and “truth hurts”. My teachers are constantly reminding us to look inward and fixing ourselves. It’s the false prophet that tells you everything is fine and inflates your ego.

    it is a complete civilizational failure

    From a materialist standpoint, quite so. Since when did I ever make the claim that I posit materialist progress as the benchmark of civilization? That is your benchmark, not mine.
    “By Allah, it is not poverty I fear for you, but rather I fear you will be given the wealth of the world just as it was given to those before you. You will compete for it just as they competed for it and it will destroy you just as it destroyed them.” – Reported in Bukhari

    coerced by Muslim mob

    I’ve called for Muslim mobs or ethnic Muslim criminal syndicates when exactly? I’m a Sufi, bro. Read through my posts – I state clearly as my teachers do; Muslims must obey the canon of the land and that it is their Islamic duty to do so. If they don’t like the rules here, they can leave – it’s that simple. If they want to act like a mob and threaten the well-being of other citizens, they should not be tolerated just as Muslims would not tolerate it in their lands. Kick them out – I’m not stopping you.

    Islam is not welcome

    Your opinion.

    nor is it going to be “integrated” on its own terms.

    Why should it? The Eastern Europeans (Hapsburgs) and Russians (after Ivan brought the Tatar Khanates under his dominion) already provided a reasonable model for integration under their terms. It is basically a reverse-dhimmi model where the Christians are the recognized alpha group. That worked for quite a long time for Russia. The Hapsburgs had elite Muslim Bosniak divisions in their army that served with distinction (they were allowed to wear fez’s baby!):

    http://www.naval-military-press.com/emperor-s-bosniaks-the-bosnian-herzegovinian-troops-in-the-k.-u.-k.-army.html

    Western Christendom never really got a good model off the ground because they reneged on the terms of the surrender of the Moors (to allow them to remain in a reverse-dhimmi contract) and booted them out.

    http://voyager.dvc.edu/~mpowell/afam/surrendergranada.pdf

    Eastern Europe and the US have bigger fish to fry and they aren’t Muslim fish. If you think a 3% Muslim population is something to worry about, then I am amused at your mental gymnastics to arrive at any confidence in your claim to civilization. Muslims are losing plenty of numbers to atheism and Western secularism, then again, they are gaining plenty of numbers with conversions. This is all in the open, nobody is forcing anyone to convert – people can read what your homeboy, Reilly, says about Islam and see if it appeals to them.

    Peace.

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    • Replies: @survey-of-disinfo

    I’m a Sufi

     

    Friendly advice, darvish: never make claims to being a Sufi.

    Salaam
    , @Talha
    Man, homeboy (Robert Reilly) is knee-deep in Zionism:

    "Robert R Reilly, a former director of the Voice of America, is senior fellow for strategic communication at the American Foreign Policy Council. He is on the Editorial Advisory Board of the Israel-America Renaissance Institute (I-ARI)."
    http://www.think-israel.org/reilly.illusionsreislamism.html

    "The central purpose of IARI is to revive our 'ancient faith.'"
    https://www.facebook.com/IsraelAmericaRenaissanceInstitute/about/?entry_point=page_nav_about_item&tab=page_info

    That's cryptic, I wonder what that means...
    "Our program will reveal the convergence of Jewish ideas evident in the Bible and in both the American Declaration of Independence and the American Constitution."

    Oh I see - LOL!

    The Iraq Debate: The War Was Just - by Robert R. Reilly
    http://www.catholicity.com/commentary/rreilly/01868.html

    Now all of his articles make sense - dude's an unabashed Neocon - capital 'N' - baby! I just thought he was a pissed off Catholic or something with an axe to grind.
    , @Andrei Martyanov

    You also seem to ignore that Christendom of a few centuries ago is also not compatible with Christendom of today on a fundamental level.
     
    It is a funny thing, since what combined West achieved in positive connotation today has the seeds and the root in precisely this "Christendom of a few centuries ago".

    Never said that. Robert Reilly makes fundamental mistakes on Islam in every article of his that I’ve read (what Islamic scholars is he working with??!!). And yes, he is also a boon to Zionists, that shouldn’t technically count – but of course it does.
     
    And I, for some dumb reason, still think that overwhelming empirical evidence somehow should point out to mistakes in Islam. Robert Spences, btw, is a fervent Israeli-firster, yet--he will eat any Islamic "scholar" for lunch and will not even notice it. You see, this is the favorite shtick of (faux?)intellectual Muslims--to turn discussion into some recitation of problems with verbiage not substance but each time it is asked "show me the money" it all comes down to Israel. I am not pro-Israeli, in fact, I am sick and tired of this Jewish smugness but let's not conflate problems with Palestine and Israel (or whatever the current narrative) with REAL problems with Islam. Israel-firsters' utilizing REAL problems with Islam for their own sake does not cancel REAL problems with and within Islam. Again, an overwhelming empirical evidence exists on that issue. I underscore-overwhelming.

    Your opinion.
     
    No, it is not mine--it is based on a variety of open (and suppressed) polls and on what Huntington defined as sotto voce of people.

    Why should it? The Eastern Europeans (Hapsburgs) and Russians (after Ivan brought the Tatar Khanates under his dominion) already provided a reasonable model for integration under their terms. It is basically a reverse-dhimmi model where the Christians are the recognized alpha group. That worked for quite a long time for Russia.
     
    It was more complex than that and you forgot to mention 70 years of Communism/Socialism which sometimes brutally, sometimes softly secularized Russia's organic Muslim population of Tatars and Bashkirs, among many. They went through the process unknown to the rest of Ummah, foundation of which was a massive and highly scientific (secular) education and industrialization. It is still highly relevant today. Ummah could only dream about the level of industrial, scientific, educational achievements of places such as Azerbaijan, Tatarstan or Bashkortostan had and still, largely, have. It was and is simply beyond the reach of most of Ummah even today.

    people can read what your homeboy, Reilly, says about Islam and see if it appeals to them.
     
    I am sure ISIS and Al Qaeda, among many, or Saudi Arabia's "attractive" image provide all necessary appearances. I also think that French or Swedish cities becoming shitholes due to the cultural "enrichment" works well in support of your theories;-)
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  95. Alden says:
    @Jacques Sheete

    And they are all over the state department and the pentagon. Israeli nationals who are officers in the Israeli army have passed into the most secure areas of the Oentagon where they are free to pick up anything they want.
     
    Have you read about the transfer of nuclear technology to Stalin and his goons during ww2? I have little doubt who facilitated that.

    https://archive.org/details/FromMajorJordansDiaries-TheTruthAboutTheUsAndUssr

    Also, this is probably what you're referring to.

    “My fellow escort and I chatted on the way back to our office about how the [Israeli] generals knew where they were going [in the Pentagon] and how [they] didn't have to sign in. I felt a bit dirtied by the whole thing.”

    -Col Karen Kwiatkowski


    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/open-door-policy/
    http://www.salon.com/2004/03/10/osp_moveon/

    I don’t think I ever read colonel Kiatkowski. There have been many exposes about the Israeli military roaming around the pentagon.

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    • Replies: @Talha
    Colonel Kiatkowski is solid and on point.

    Peace.
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  96. Frankie P says:
    @Alden
    I read Jewish publications all the time. The Jews just live China right now. They constantly extoll and praise everything Chinese. A bid deal is made of what Chibese and Jews have in common, hard work, entrepreneurs rather than workers, high value on education and strong family values. Intermarriage between Jewish men and Chinese women is highly regarded.
    There were Persian Jewish traders in the Chinese pacific ports going back at least 2,500 years. That is proof that yes we Jews can go to China and prosper
    About 125 years ago Jews began the big jump from Russia to S.Africa and America. By 1960 they were running both countries, that's only about 80 years after arrival. They did the same thing in both countries, organized the blacks against the ruling Whites. Even Oppenheim now brags that "we were behind the ANC all the time"
    All Americans know how the Jews led the blacks and other minorities and immigrants against the Whites.

    But the Han have never submitted to rule by one of their minorities. So 50 to 100 years from now when the children of Jewish immigrants to China try to stir up some minority ethnic group against the Han I wonder how it will come out.

    One thing I have noticed. Jews always do best in Christian countries due to the fact that Christians use the Old Testament and Christianity began as a Jewish heresy.

    But China is not Christian and they are far more chauvinistic and racist than any ethnic group Jews have ever run into

    The Chinese are pragmatic realists, and as such are well aware of the history of the Jews, and how they latch onto productive societies and bleed them dry for the benefit of the tribe. Are you actually so naive that you believe that the Chinese, with a history longer than that of the Jews and a national population (discounting overseas Chinese) 100X greater than that of worldwide Jewry, a Chinese political modus operandi that is cautious, meticulous and ever-focused on benefitting the Han population, would ever open their arms and give Jews the opportunity to play their shell games, Ponzi schemes (international finance) and subjugation agendas on the Chinese? Have you wondered why the Chinese have kept their economy walled off from and strictly regulated against international currency conversion and investment? Have you considered why the Chinese are constructing a parallel financial system to the established international financial order, providing alternatives to the IMF and World Bank and current SWIFT system? AIIB, BRICS Bank, OBOR (One Belt One Road), CIPS (China International Payment System) = the end of Jewish controlled global banking leverage, end of effective sanctions on countries who refuse to toe America’s line, end of CURRENT GLOBAL ORDER!
    AMEN!!!! Now put this on the stove and let it start to cook. Think of 30 years from now, when the Chinese economy is TWICE the size of that of the USA. Eventually, we will all be thanking the Chinese; they will be the ones to free us from this parasitic evil. The question then will be: how well will the Chinese treat us?

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    • Replies: @Art

    Are you actually so naive that you believe that the Chinese, with a history longer than that of the Jews and a national population (discounting overseas Chinese)
     
    Hmm - what about Adelson and Winn in Macao – who are they paying off? Not a bad start- ha!

    The Big Jews are masters at divide and conquer – and there is a lot of dividing to do in China.

    These Zionists (a manifestation of Jew culture) are evil – they terrorize their own children by building up hate for the rest of humanity. They tell them that all Gentiles hate them and want to kill them – they make little zombies, who will back the Big Jews 100% for the rest of their lives.

    New sell the Big Jews evil short - they know the dark side of life and how to play it - they revel in the taking.

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  97. Talha says:
    @Clyde
    You would lose a debate with Robert Spencer. The Mongols were real super killers/warriors but they did not last fourteen centuries. They lasted what? Three centuries? I give them great credit for administering good spankings to Baghdad (sacked!) and various Muslim cities in Iraq/Syria.
    The British Empire was fairly benign and lasted three centuries or so.

    So top rank Imperialist force still goes to Islam, going strong ever since Muhammad was the first Jihadist, fourteen centuries ago. I like the wacky nuked up Iranians whose real goal is make Jihad on the Sunni Middle East to convert it into Shiite. We will see lots of bloodletting for sure in this wacked out Jihad effort. The early stages which we see fought in the ISIS wars against Assad and Assad regime vs the Muslim Brotherhood. Lots of bad blood there ever since old man Assad leveled Hama Syria 1982, killing 20,000 or so Muslim Brotherhood and their families

    I give them great credit for administering good spankings to Baghdad (sacked!) and various Muslim cities in Iraq/Syria.

    How did I miss that one – wow! I love the cognitive dissonance in all of this – the gentle Christian critic of the violent Islam – LOL! Never have I ever spoken gleefully or positively about any sack on any city! You can answer to all the thousands of Christian souls that were also raped, tortured, killed in those same ‘spankings’ when you see them when you are stood up for judgement.

    Peace.

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    • Replies: @Clyde

    How did I miss that one – wow! I love the cognitive dissonance in all of this – the gentle Christian critic of the violent Islam – LOL! Never have I ever spoken gleefully or positively about any sack on any city!
     
    What!!?? Are you some kind of silly sufi or peacenik Ahmadiyya Muslim? Did I miss something here?
    Muhammad famously proclaimed that he had become victorious though terror. Through deploying terroristic tactics during his wars and battles. We see ISIS fighting wars exactly the same terroristic way today. Emulating their alleged Prophet in this way.
    THUSLY......
    I admire the Mongols for out terrorizing (in wars) the religious sect called Islam that sacked the Christian middle east of the 7th century. The Mongols were better terrorists than the Muslims. But alas, the Mongols dissipated after a few centuries and many went Muslim themselves as they dissolved into the greater Ummah and the alleged abode of peace Dar al Salam. What a pity, but once again showing the bizarre effectiveness of Islam down through the centuries.
    , @Marcus
    Some of the Mongols were friendly to Christians, hence the Prester John legend. They sacked Kiev and made some incursions into Poland and Hungary, but overall they (and later Timur) bought Europe valuable time.
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  98. Talha says:
    @Alden
    I don't think I ever read colonel Kiatkowski. There have been many exposes about the Israeli military roaming around the pentagon.

    Colonel Kiatkowski is solid and on point.

    Peace.

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    • Replies: @Alden
    I'm sure she is. But I learned all about Israeli military officers roaming the pentagon and taking what they wanted before colonel Kiawkotowski joined the military.
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  99. Alden says:
    @Jacques Sheete

    And they are all over the state department and the pentagon. Israeli nationals who are officers in the Israeli army have passed into the most secure areas of the Oentagon where they are free to pick up anything they want.
     
    Have you read about the transfer of nuclear technology to Stalin and his goons during ww2? I have little doubt who facilitated that.

    https://archive.org/details/FromMajorJordansDiaries-TheTruthAboutTheUsAndUssr

    Also, this is probably what you're referring to.

    “My fellow escort and I chatted on the way back to our office about how the [Israeli] generals knew where they were going [in the Pentagon] and how [they] didn't have to sign in. I felt a bit dirtied by the whole thing.”

    -Col Karen Kwiatkowski


    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/open-door-policy/
    http://www.salon.com/2004/03/10/osp_moveon/

    I would never read salon or American conservative

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  100. @Talha
    Hey Smoothie,

    You seem to ignore a reality that Islam and Sharia are not compatible with Christendom on a fundamental level, period.
     
    You seem to ignore that I never made that claim in any of my replies to Clyde, stay on point, bro. You also seem to ignore that Christendom of a few centuries ago is also not compatible with Christendom of today on a fundamental level.

    Robert Reilly and Islamic scholars he worked with are also Robert Spencer’s stooges
     
    Never said that. Robert Reilly makes fundamental mistakes on Islam in every article of his that I've read (what Islamic scholars is he working with??!!). And yes, he is also a boon to Zionists, that shouldn't technically count - but of course it does.

    Here he is talking about the invention of the 'Palestinians':
    http://www.crisismagazine.com/2012/why-invent-the-palestinians

    Abdurrahman Wahid made critical assessments of fundamental, systemic problems in the Muslim world. That is quite welcome criticism. Even some well-known Salafi scholars, like Sh. Yusuf Qaradawi has done the same:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Pk2-vr4sSw

    It's called "tough love" and "truth hurts". My teachers are constantly reminding us to look inward and fixing ourselves. It's the false prophet that tells you everything is fine and inflates your ego.

    it is a complete civilizational failure
     

    From a materialist standpoint, quite so. Since when did I ever make the claim that I posit materialist progress as the benchmark of civilization? That is your benchmark, not mine.
    "By Allah, it is not poverty I fear for you, but rather I fear you will be given the wealth of the world just as it was given to those before you. You will compete for it just as they competed for it and it will destroy you just as it destroyed them." - Reported in Bukhari

    coerced by Muslim mob
     
    I've called for Muslim mobs or ethnic Muslim criminal syndicates when exactly? I'm a Sufi, bro. Read through my posts - I state clearly as my teachers do; Muslims must obey the canon of the land and that it is their Islamic duty to do so. If they don't like the rules here, they can leave - it's that simple. If they want to act like a mob and threaten the well-being of other citizens, they should not be tolerated just as Muslims would not tolerate it in their lands. Kick them out - I'm not stopping you.

    Islam is not welcome
     
    Your opinion.

    nor is it going to be “integrated” on its own terms.
     
    Why should it? The Eastern Europeans (Hapsburgs) and Russians (after Ivan brought the Tatar Khanates under his dominion) already provided a reasonable model for integration under their terms. It is basically a reverse-dhimmi model where the Christians are the recognized alpha group. That worked for quite a long time for Russia. The Hapsburgs had elite Muslim Bosniak divisions in their army that served with distinction (they were allowed to wear fez's baby!):
    http://www.naval-military-press.com/emperor-s-bosniaks-the-bosnian-herzegovinian-troops-in-the-k.-u.-k.-army.html

    Western Christendom never really got a good model off the ground because they reneged on the terms of the surrender of the Moors (to allow them to remain in a reverse-dhimmi contract) and booted them out.
    http://voyager.dvc.edu/~mpowell/afam/surrendergranada.pdf

    Eastern Europe and the US have bigger fish to fry and they aren't Muslim fish. If you think a 3% Muslim population is something to worry about, then I am amused at your mental gymnastics to arrive at any confidence in your claim to civilization. Muslims are losing plenty of numbers to atheism and Western secularism, then again, they are gaining plenty of numbers with conversions. This is all in the open, nobody is forcing anyone to convert - people can read what your homeboy, Reilly, says about Islam and see if it appeals to them.

    Peace.

    I’m a Sufi

    Friendly advice, darvish: never make claims to being a Sufi.

    Salaam

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    • Replies: @Talha
    Good one bro - I'm a Sufi, but a lousy one, eh??!! Istighfar time!

    Thanks for the advice!

    Wa salaam.

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  101. Art says:
    @Frankie P
    The Chinese are pragmatic realists, and as such are well aware of the history of the Jews, and how they latch onto productive societies and bleed them dry for the benefit of the tribe. Are you actually so naive that you believe that the Chinese, with a history longer than that of the Jews and a national population (discounting overseas Chinese) 100X greater than that of worldwide Jewry, a Chinese political modus operandi that is cautious, meticulous and ever-focused on benefitting the Han population, would ever open their arms and give Jews the opportunity to play their shell games, Ponzi schemes (international finance) and subjugation agendas on the Chinese? Have you wondered why the Chinese have kept their economy walled off from and strictly regulated against international currency conversion and investment? Have you considered why the Chinese are constructing a parallel financial system to the established international financial order, providing alternatives to the IMF and World Bank and current SWIFT system? AIIB, BRICS Bank, OBOR (One Belt One Road), CIPS (China International Payment System) = the end of Jewish controlled global banking leverage, end of effective sanctions on countries who refuse to toe America's line, end of CURRENT GLOBAL ORDER!
    AMEN!!!! Now put this on the stove and let it start to cook. Think of 30 years from now, when the Chinese economy is TWICE the size of that of the USA. Eventually, we will all be thanking the Chinese; they will be the ones to free us from this parasitic evil. The question then will be: how well will the Chinese treat us?

    Are you actually so naive that you believe that the Chinese, with a history longer than that of the Jews and a national population (discounting overseas Chinese)

    Hmm – what about Adelson and Winn in Macao – who are they paying off? Not a bad start- ha!

    The Big Jews are masters at divide and conquer – and there is a lot of dividing to do in China.

    These Zionists (a manifestation of Jew culture) are evil – they terrorize their own children by building up hate for the rest of humanity. They tell them that all Gentiles hate them and want to kill them – they make little zombies, who will back the Big Jews 100% for the rest of their lives.

    New sell the Big Jews evil short – they know the dark side of life and how to play it – they revel in the taking.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Frankie P
    Art,

    I'm well aware of the phsychological training that results in rampant anti-gentilism among Zionists; we shouldn't limit it to Zionists, as even AZZ (Anti-Zionist Zionists) have been indoctrinated, causing them to try to manage the discourse on all matters of dual-loyalty or American Jewish power and influence in Washington while they simultaenously attack Israel, proving themselves as "good Jews".

    Regarding Sheldon Adelson and the Macau casino moguls, you should be aware of what the payoff was to the Chinese; it was not merely a matter of cash kickbacks into some corrupt local Communist Party official's pocket. The Chinese, fully aware of the political pull that Sheldon Adelson has/had in the US, especially in the Republican Party, where the "Adelson Primary" to choose the Republican presidential candidate rivals that of any state primary, asked for lobbying help from Adelson on matters of priority to the Chinese. Let that sink in. The Chinese, a foreign government, threw Adelson some bones and let him make money from casinos in Macau for a while (when his influence wanes, they will kick him out) in return for proven lobbying power in the halls of power in the US Congress, the legislative body of their biggest competitor for future global power. I'd say the Communist Party sees that as a good investment; they get influence in US politics and Adelson makes a bit of money in Macau. This is mere greed on the part of Adelson and Winn; they have absolutely NO CHANCE of playing their divide and conquer games on the Chinese.
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  102. Talha says:
    @survey-of-disinfo

    I’m a Sufi

     

    Friendly advice, darvish: never make claims to being a Sufi.

    Salaam

    Good one bro – I’m a Sufi, but a lousy one, eh??!! Istighfar time!

    Thanks for the advice!

    Wa salaam.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Clyde
    You say you are Sufi but my bet is you were not born Sufi. Sufi has a good peaceful reputation in the terminally naive West. But Sufis have made Jihad too and are the prime anti-Hindu fighters in Jammu-Kashmir.
    But all in all Sufi have not made nearly as much Jihad wars as Sunnis have.
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  103. @Mark Green
    Israel and crypto-Israelis living inside the US have undermined our nation's sovereignty. This is serious. These foreign agents have an agenda. And it's a dangerous one.

    Incredibly, even acknowledging that there's something wrong and perilous and artificial about this 'special relationship' (Israel and Washington) is verboten. So the malady hardens and spreads.

    But examining this un-diagnosed cancer, measuring its impact, and seeking a remedy is restricted.

    "There's nothing to worry about. We are democratic allies".

    But there's plenty to worry about.

    Zio-US aggression is still at fever pitch. Iraq and Libya may be ruined, but there's still Palestine, Syria, Lebanon, Iran and Russia. Conquest awaits. Israel must be made secure. Her enemies must yield.

    We are in a very deep hole. And the digging continues.

    More Israelis live in the U.S. than in Israel. They control the MSM, Hollywood & the U.S. govt.
    through dual-citizenship Jews who’d sell out the U.S. in a FLASH.

    I’m sorry Assad’s AF shot down just 1 Israeli jet and drone. But Israel has $38 Billion in U.S. tax dollars over the next 10 years to buy more. Next time, perhaps Russian pilots will take out a few. .

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  104. Alden says:
    @annamaria
    "Russia invaded east and south for a thousand years.. Russia went so Far East it now has a border with China.."

    Could you name a state in Siberia that Russia has fought and subjugated? Have you heard about Poland' wars against Russia before Russia became a state to beckon with? When the state of Estonia was formed?
    The article is about modern world. Could you please name a single Russian invasion during the last 25 years? Come on... And what does make you believe that Russians and Jews have a lot in common? If that were so than the "Two Hundred Years Together" by Alexander Solzhenitsyn would not be sequestered by the US/UK publishers - all of them! Though it is true that Russians should have a deeper understanding of Israelis' mentality than people of other nations, thanks to the Soviet experiment.

    Moreover, Israel wants the dismemberment of Syria in order to grab the Golan Heights (see Yinon plan for Erez Israel), whereas RF wants to protect her southern borders from jihadis and thus prefers to have a stable and peaceful Syria. What is not clear about this state of affairs?

    Whatever your tried to tell the readers, you came in support for the Kagans' policies in Ukraine as well as in support of NATO' direct encroachment on the Russian borders.
    And how close is Ukraine to the US borders? Next door?

    Read my post. I did not write that it’s my opinion that the Jews would be able to colonize China as they did America and S Africa.

    I simply reported that the Jewish publications I read seem to be encouraging Jews to infiltrate and take over China.

    I doubt the Han will ever allow immigrant Jews to use the minorities to overthrow the Han.

    But China allowed itself to be taken over by Russia directed communists and then allowed Mao to murder 100 million and destroy their economy.

    So they are not invincible.

    But once more, I simply reported what Jewish publications are writing.

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  105. Alden says:
    @Talha
    Colonel Kiatkowski is solid and on point.

    Peace.

    I’m sure she is. But I learned all about Israeli military officers roaming the pentagon and taking what they wanted before colonel Kiawkotowski joined the military.

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  106. Clyde says:
    @Talha

    I give them great credit for administering good spankings to Baghdad (sacked!) and various Muslim cities in Iraq/Syria.
     
    How did I miss that one - wow! I love the cognitive dissonance in all of this - the gentle Christian critic of the violent Islam - LOL! Never have I ever spoken gleefully or positively about any sack on any city! You can answer to all the thousands of Christian souls that were also raped, tortured, killed in those same 'spankings' when you see them when you are stood up for judgement.

    Peace.

    How did I miss that one – wow! I love the cognitive dissonance in all of this – the gentle Christian critic of the violent Islam – LOL! Never have I ever spoken gleefully or positively about any sack on any city!

    What!!?? Are you some kind of silly sufi or peacenik Ahmadiyya Muslim? Did I miss something here?
    Muhammad famously proclaimed that he had become victorious though terror. Through deploying terroristic tactics during his wars and battles. We see ISIS fighting wars exactly the same terroristic way today. Emulating their alleged Prophet in this way.
    THUSLY……
    I admire the Mongols for out terrorizing (in wars) the religious sect called Islam that sacked the Christian middle east of the 7th century. The Mongols were better terrorists than the Muslims. But alas, the Mongols dissipated after a few centuries and many went Muslim themselves as they dissolved into the greater Ummah and the alleged abode of peace Dar al Salam. What a pity, but once again showing the bizarre effectiveness of Islam down through the centuries.

    Read More
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  107. Ace says:
    @Alden
    There are free Jewish publications scattered all over my neighborhood I read them regularly. A continuing theme for decades is that Jees do best in splintered multi ethnic multi religious multi cultural societies. The Turkish empire is always held up as the ideal place for Jews to flourish. We all know that the Turkiah empire ruled hundreds of different nations and ethnic groups

    Read The Forward, Los Angeles and your local Jewish Journal, the ADL &AJC publications. They constantly push for more diversity and more difference so the Jews can rule over squabbling goyim.

    Thank you. I will. MEMRI does good work in capturing Muslim intramural conversation and I have no doubt Jewish such conversation would be similarly instructive.

    A Non-Jewish lady friend once dated a Jewish man and attended synagogue with him. The rabbi pointedly asked if everyone was family, or words to that effect, and, assuming only family was present, went on to discuss some matter that showed, shall we say, a somewhat “parochial” way thinking. I don’t remember the details, but the entre nous preface was crystal clear. Do Baptists talk like that in church?

    A Swiss journalist got himself kidnapped by the Germans before WWII for publishing a too-accurate order of battle for the Wehrmacht. They demanded he reveal his agent network but he explained that he only combed the smallest of newspapers for items reporting, for example, that Cpl Schmidt was home for a week from the 423 Motorized Mess Kit Repair Regiment in Mülheim. He was released after protest by foreign journalists but rekidnapped during the war, which did not survive.

    Anyway, an excellent point about open source intel. And whatever that shows, you don’t have to study the Pollard case or accounts of the sayonim to realize that there is a visible and a hidden side to the activities of some Jews.

    I am mindful of the kindness and patriotism of Jews of my acquaintance (and much more) but there are others for whom the Zionist/dual loyalty tractor beam exerts a strong pull. I don’t see it discussed openly among Jews and strangely it seems to fall to non-Jews to try to outline the nature and extent of “the problem” – with attendant risk of being labeled you-know-what.

    The outrageous attack on Diana West also has roots in this hidden side of secular, ultra-leftist Jews who did not like any discussion of the true extent of communist influence in the Roosevelt administration and afterwards. Since Jews played an enormous role in 1930s communism and afterwards it’s been extremely important to them to conceal the true story of American communism. (The case of David Horowitz is still an anomaly. His disdain for her makes no sense. He has a lot of integrity I think and think either tribal loyalty is stronger than I realize or his donor base got on his case, as with Gatestone.)

    There are several facets to the thinking of some Jews. For the life of me I don’t understand why many (?) Jews seem to think that gentiles are perennially on the the point of organizing a pogrom and how could anyone even suggest that Jews could have attitudes and behaviors that would alienate nearby non-Jews. But they do and hence the Barbara Lerner Spectres of this world, I guess

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  108. Alden says:
    @Jacques Sheete
    Good grief.

    You provided a bunch of info that I already knew, but none of it substantiates your claim that Leopold's atrocities were a myth of Brit propaganda.

    You do get an A+ for this part of your comment tho...


    Remember a big reason Britian (sic) fomented WW1 with Germany was because Germany was moving in on Africa and had established a colony just northwest of S Africa, Namambia???
     
    The Brits were also happy to foment discord between France and Germany over North Africa (specifically Morocco) as well.

    Anyway, remember a big reason Britain fomented WW2 with Germany was because Germany was moving in on the Middle East including Palestine and Iran???

    It was more like Iran went to Germany for protection against Russia and the UK.

    Russia and the U.K. Made an agreement to occupy big parts of Iran. Russia would and get Azberjian, 1/4 th of Iran in the north east. The U.K. Would get the southern oil patch on the Gulf.

    That is why Iran went to Germany for protection in the late 1930s.

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  109. Frankie P says:
    @Art

    Are you actually so naive that you believe that the Chinese, with a history longer than that of the Jews and a national population (discounting overseas Chinese)
     
    Hmm - what about Adelson and Winn in Macao – who are they paying off? Not a bad start- ha!

    The Big Jews are masters at divide and conquer – and there is a lot of dividing to do in China.

    These Zionists (a manifestation of Jew culture) are evil – they terrorize their own children by building up hate for the rest of humanity. They tell them that all Gentiles hate them and want to kill them – they make little zombies, who will back the Big Jews 100% for the rest of their lives.

    New sell the Big Jews evil short - they know the dark side of life and how to play it - they revel in the taking.

    Art,

    I’m well aware of the phsychological training that results in rampant anti-gentilism among Zionists; we shouldn’t limit it to Zionists, as even AZZ (Anti-Zionist Zionists) have been indoctrinated, causing them to try to manage the discourse on all matters of dual-loyalty or American Jewish power and influence in Washington while they simultaenously attack Israel, proving themselves as “good Jews”.

    Regarding Sheldon Adelson and the Macau casino moguls, you should be aware of what the payoff was to the Chinese; it was not merely a matter of cash kickbacks into some corrupt local Communist Party official’s pocket. The Chinese, fully aware of the political pull that Sheldon Adelson has/had in the US, especially in the Republican Party, where the “Adelson Primary” to choose the Republican presidential candidate rivals that of any state primary, asked for lobbying help from Adelson on matters of priority to the Chinese. Let that sink in. The Chinese, a foreign government, threw Adelson some bones and let him make money from casinos in Macau for a while (when his influence wanes, they will kick him out) in return for proven lobbying power in the halls of power in the US Congress, the legislative body of their biggest competitor for future global power. I’d say the Communist Party sees that as a good investment; they get influence in US politics and Adelson makes a bit of money in Macau. This is mere greed on the part of Adelson and Winn; they have absolutely NO CHANCE of playing their divide and conquer games on the Chinese.

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  110. Talha says:
    @Talha
    Hey Smoothie,

    You seem to ignore a reality that Islam and Sharia are not compatible with Christendom on a fundamental level, period.
     
    You seem to ignore that I never made that claim in any of my replies to Clyde, stay on point, bro. You also seem to ignore that Christendom of a few centuries ago is also not compatible with Christendom of today on a fundamental level.

    Robert Reilly and Islamic scholars he worked with are also Robert Spencer’s stooges
     
    Never said that. Robert Reilly makes fundamental mistakes on Islam in every article of his that I've read (what Islamic scholars is he working with??!!). And yes, he is also a boon to Zionists, that shouldn't technically count - but of course it does.

    Here he is talking about the invention of the 'Palestinians':
    http://www.crisismagazine.com/2012/why-invent-the-palestinians

    Abdurrahman Wahid made critical assessments of fundamental, systemic problems in the Muslim world. That is quite welcome criticism. Even some well-known Salafi scholars, like Sh. Yusuf Qaradawi has done the same:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Pk2-vr4sSw

    It's called "tough love" and "truth hurts". My teachers are constantly reminding us to look inward and fixing ourselves. It's the false prophet that tells you everything is fine and inflates your ego.

    it is a complete civilizational failure
     

    From a materialist standpoint, quite so. Since when did I ever make the claim that I posit materialist progress as the benchmark of civilization? That is your benchmark, not mine.
    "By Allah, it is not poverty I fear for you, but rather I fear you will be given the wealth of the world just as it was given to those before you. You will compete for it just as they competed for it and it will destroy you just as it destroyed them." - Reported in Bukhari

    coerced by Muslim mob
     
    I've called for Muslim mobs or ethnic Muslim criminal syndicates when exactly? I'm a Sufi, bro. Read through my posts - I state clearly as my teachers do; Muslims must obey the canon of the land and that it is their Islamic duty to do so. If they don't like the rules here, they can leave - it's that simple. If they want to act like a mob and threaten the well-being of other citizens, they should not be tolerated just as Muslims would not tolerate it in their lands. Kick them out - I'm not stopping you.

    Islam is not welcome
     
    Your opinion.

    nor is it going to be “integrated” on its own terms.
     
    Why should it? The Eastern Europeans (Hapsburgs) and Russians (after Ivan brought the Tatar Khanates under his dominion) already provided a reasonable model for integration under their terms. It is basically a reverse-dhimmi model where the Christians are the recognized alpha group. That worked for quite a long time for Russia. The Hapsburgs had elite Muslim Bosniak divisions in their army that served with distinction (they were allowed to wear fez's baby!):
    http://www.naval-military-press.com/emperor-s-bosniaks-the-bosnian-herzegovinian-troops-in-the-k.-u.-k.-army.html

    Western Christendom never really got a good model off the ground because they reneged on the terms of the surrender of the Moors (to allow them to remain in a reverse-dhimmi contract) and booted them out.
    http://voyager.dvc.edu/~mpowell/afam/surrendergranada.pdf

    Eastern Europe and the US have bigger fish to fry and they aren't Muslim fish. If you think a 3% Muslim population is something to worry about, then I am amused at your mental gymnastics to arrive at any confidence in your claim to civilization. Muslims are losing plenty of numbers to atheism and Western secularism, then again, they are gaining plenty of numbers with conversions. This is all in the open, nobody is forcing anyone to convert - people can read what your homeboy, Reilly, says about Islam and see if it appeals to them.

    Peace.

    Man, homeboy (Robert Reilly) is knee-deep in Zionism:

    “Robert R Reilly, a former director of the Voice of America, is senior fellow for strategic communication at the American Foreign Policy Council. He is on the Editorial Advisory Board of the Israel-America Renaissance Institute (I-ARI).”

    http://www.think-israel.org/reilly.illusionsreislamism.html

    “The central purpose of IARI is to revive our ‘ancient faith.’”

    https://www.facebook.com/IsraelAmericaRenaissanceInstitute/about/?entry_point=page_nav_about_item&tab=page_info

    That’s cryptic, I wonder what that means…
    “Our program will reveal the convergence of Jewish ideas evident in the Bible and in both the American Declaration of Independence and the American Constitution.”

    Oh I see – LOL!

    The Iraq Debate: The War Was Just – by Robert R. Reilly

    http://www.catholicity.com/commentary/rreilly/01868.html

    Now all of his articles make sense – dude’s an unabashed Neocon – capital ‘N’ – baby! I just thought he was a pissed off Catholic or something with an axe to grind.

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  111. Clyde says:
    @Talha
    Thanks for your opinion Clyde, compounding on your other opinions.

    Why the hell would I debate with Robert Spencer - that dude is as dogmatic as I am about Islam - I'm just honest about my position. And I'm not paid by Zionist fund raisers - technically that shouldn't count, but of course it does.

    Peace.

    And I’m not paid by Zionist fund raisers – technically that shouldn’t count, but of course it does.

    I am sure you could find anti-Israel leftist Jews who would pay you to debate Robert Spencer. Robert Spencer does not live an extravagant life so “The Zionists” you are yapping about must not pay very well. And he knows Muslim wackos could try and kill him at any time. How would you like to live like this? You are aware that Muslims have killed their critics in Europe. Again emulating Muhammad who proclaimed that he had become victorious through terror.
    Remember when Sunni Muslims were bombing all those Shiite mosques and market places in Iraq from 2004-2008? They were murdering 30-100 Shiites at a time via bombings. Car bombs and suicide bombs. This anti-Shiite Jihad was also emulating Muhammad’s terrorist tactics that Muhammad bragged about, that had made him victorious.

    “The Prophet Muhammad boasted, “I have been made victorious with terror”. [Bukhari: 4.52.220]

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    • Replies: @Talha

    Robert Spencer does not live an extravagant life so “The Zionists” you are yapping about must not pay very well.
     
    Wait a minute, are you saying his paymasters aren't generous with their sheckels - because (gasp!) they're Jews??!! What are you - some kind of racist? LOL!

    I don't know man, $132K + $14K for blogging nonsense every year is not exactly 'spartan' living:
    http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/08/robert-spencer-david-horowitz-cash-in-on-hate/

    And he knows Muslim wackos could try and kill him at any time.
     
    Yeah, like homeboy is ducking 'laau akbaar' drivebys every week or something.

    Remember when Sunni Muslims were bombing all those Shiite mosques and market places in Iraq from 2004-2008?
     
    Yeah - I do - remind me of all the names of qualified Sunni muftis urging them on. Oh wait, they were getting slaughtered by the same extremists for speaking against them.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5tIoQwSQNY

    “The Prophet Muhammad boasted, “I have been made victorious with terror”. [Bukhari: 4.52.220]
     
    Ah yes - this one - LOL! Of course this is actually correct, but not in the way you intend. The word in Arabic here is (رعب) which can encompass; panic, awe, terror - which is what God cast into the hearts of his enemies in order for them to give up without a fight. Same word used in this verse:
    "...and He cast terror into their hearts..." 59:2
    http://www.quranexplorer.com/Hadith/English/Hadith/bukhari/004.052.220.html

    And it continued after him, a Byzantine priest is reported to have advised the military leaders (talking about Khalid bin Walid [ra]):
    “Is the standard of this army a black one? Is the commander of this army a tall, powerfully built, broad shouldered man with a large beard and a few pock marks on his face? Then beware of fighting this army. ”

    If he meant what you intend, he would have used a perfectly clear word like 'Hiraaba' to connote terrorism.

    Peace.
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  112. Marcus says:
    @Talha

    I give them great credit for administering good spankings to Baghdad (sacked!) and various Muslim cities in Iraq/Syria.
     
    How did I miss that one - wow! I love the cognitive dissonance in all of this - the gentle Christian critic of the violent Islam - LOL! Never have I ever spoken gleefully or positively about any sack on any city! You can answer to all the thousands of Christian souls that were also raped, tortured, killed in those same 'spankings' when you see them when you are stood up for judgement.

    Peace.

    Some of the Mongols were friendly to Christians, hence the Prester John legend. They sacked Kiev and made some incursions into Poland and Hungary, but overall they (and later Timur) bought Europe valuable time.

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    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey Marcus,

    Indeed - and some of the Mongol leaders were Christian (and were accompanied by Armenian divisions and others), like the one who invaded the Levant. But you and I both know that their tactics remained mostly the same whether they were Christian or Muslim (like Tamerlane). So religion didn't do much to dent their fury - at least initially.

    Peace.
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  113. Marcus says:
    @Andrei Martyanov
    I love your mental gymnastics--I am not being facetious or sarcastic, I do enjoy it because it is entertaining. I can imagine (but if my memory doesn't fail me--we already have been through this one) then, that Robert Reilly and Islamic scholars he worked with are also Robert Spencer's stooges, if to follow your logic? I wonder if Abdurrahman Wahid was also;-) You seem to ignore a reality that Islam and Sharia are not compatible with Christendom on a fundamental level, period. Islam has nothing--zilch--to offer to civilization because it is a complete civilizational failure. Mind you, I am not talking about Eurowussies and American metrosexuals who lost their masculinity long ago and would do anything which can take them out of their pseudo-intellectual misery or would simply be coerced by Muslim mob since they are cowards and simply lack necessary skills. But this is not how it ends. I would suggest you study the dynamics of such events as in Kondopoga or Sagra, you may change your narrative after that. Islam is not welcome nor is it going to be "integrated" on its own terms. It may "win" by destroying (which is Islam's MO) degenerate Western Europe but Eastern One and US are a bit different propositions.

    Also Buddhists and Hindus: they’re offering better resistance to the Muslims than any Western country: who would’ve thought!

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  114. Alden says:
    @annamaria
    "Russia invaded east and south for a thousand years.. Russia went so Far East it now has a border with China.."

    Could you name a state in Siberia that Russia has fought and subjugated? Have you heard about Poland' wars against Russia before Russia became a state to beckon with? When the state of Estonia was formed?
    The article is about modern world. Could you please name a single Russian invasion during the last 25 years? Come on... And what does make you believe that Russians and Jews have a lot in common? If that were so than the "Two Hundred Years Together" by Alexander Solzhenitsyn would not be sequestered by the US/UK publishers - all of them! Though it is true that Russians should have a deeper understanding of Israelis' mentality than people of other nations, thanks to the Soviet experiment.

    Moreover, Israel wants the dismemberment of Syria in order to grab the Golan Heights (see Yinon plan for Erez Israel), whereas RF wants to protect her southern borders from jihadis and thus prefers to have a stable and peaceful Syria. What is not clear about this state of affairs?

    Whatever your tried to tell the readers, you came in support for the Kagans' policies in Ukraine as well as in support of NATO' direct encroachment on the Russian borders.
    And how close is Ukraine to the US borders? Next door?

    I know all about the huge medieval kingdom of Poland/ Lithuania, that Poland once ruled a big part of Ukraine and that its territory once stretched from the Black to the Baltic Sea.

    So what’s your point? That Russia and Poland battled over Ukraine 800 years ago? That Ukraine belongs to Russia? Well doesn’t it? So what.
    You seem to think Russia is an upright, moral wonderful nation that will never again invade any territory belonging to another nation. Maybe that is true, maybe it isn’t

    But to say Russia never invaded any other nation, well…….

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    • Replies: @annamaria
    "Russia and Poland battled over Ukraine 800 years ago..."

    This is not what we know from the history of these two states. Russian state had gained any significance in the 16th century and was invaded by Poland in the 17th.

    "You seem to think Russia is an upright, moral wonderful nation that will never again invade any territory belonging to another nation..."

    The article is about demonization of Russian Federation by the Empire of Federal Reserve; the encroachment of NATO to the RF borders, and the bloody wars of aggression/regime change in the Middle East and Ukraine, which have endangered Russian Federation. I care not about comparing certain personalities (though that could be instructive) but tremble for the fate of humanity if two nuclear powers go into conflict. Please take a notice the US' intentions on provoking RF towards conventional wars in Eastern Europe (via NATO) and Middle East (via US/SA/Israel-sponsored "moderate" terrorists). The US are thousands miles aways from the military theater whereas RF has it at her doors. Again, what are the territories that RF invaded after the dissolution of the USSR? Why the US are so aggressively against the RF cooperation with Europe? What events have created ISIS? What is Yinon Plan?
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  115. Clyde says:
    @Marcus
    There are some strongly anti-Israel Jews: N Finkelstein, Max Blumenthal, the Mondoweiss people, etc. Most don't feel strongly about it or are somewhere between them and Adelson. I don't think Obama has been any harder on Israel than other presidents, see Reagan pushing through the Saudi AWACS deal over Israeli objections.

    You remark is mostly accurate but Obama is our very own Third World president running an occupation government in Washingtoon DC. Don’t blame me if most Americans are oblivious to this.
    His father was third worlder and did not even bother to illegally immigrate here. He dropped his bad seed here into a young, naive, 17 year old American woman named Ann Dunham and was then gonezo back to Kenya.
    Now as a good loyal Third Worlder you think Obama likes Israel? Or is neutral on Israel? This is crazy. His prime act of sabotage and revenge again Israel was the big Iran deal. Helping/paying out billions to Iran to develop nuclear weapons over time. Any white European person who thinks Muslims + nukes is a good thing is clinically insane.
    Muslims are in love with terrorism, always have been, and nukes are the ultimate terrorist weapon. They make your terrorist threats much more credible.

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    • Replies: @Marcus
    Iran doesn't want or need nuclear weapons. Much safer for them to be under Russia's umbrella. Much worse is the US ally Pakistan, an outright terror state, having both nuclear weapons and modern delivery systems. By the way, Pakistan names their missiles after Muslim invaders like Ghazni and Ghori, imagine Germany naming missiles after Goering or Himmler!
    , @Avery
    {Helping/paying out billions to Iran to develop nuclear weapons over time. }

    US is not 'paying out' $ billions to Iran.
    It was their $ billions that US illegally froze: in effect preventing Iran from using their own money to invest, earn interest, etc. Theft.
    And even if US had not gone along, EU would lift the sanctions regardless, so it was a moot point. US saw the writing on the wall and went along, Obama or no Obama.

    {Any white European person who thinks Muslims + nukes is a good thing is clinically insane.}

    That train left the station a long time ago.
    As others have pointed out, radical Islamistan Pakistan does have nukes and tested delivery systems: max range of their nuke missile is advertised as 1,700 miles.

    And guess what: US helped Islamistan Pakistan develop nukes.

    {In the late 80s, in the course of tracking down smugglers of WMD components, Barlow uncovered reams of material that related to Pakistan. It was known the Islamic Republic had been covertly striving to acquire nuclear weapons since India's explosion of a device in 1974 and the prospect terrified the west - especially given the instability of a nation that had had three military coups in less than 30 years . Straddling deep ethnic, religious and political fault-lines, it was also a country regularly rocked by inter-communal violence. "Pakistan was the kind of place where technology could slip out of control," Barlow says.

    He soon discovered, however, that senior officials in government were taking quite the opposite view: they were breaking US and international non-proliferation protocols to shelter Pakistan's ambitions and even sell it banned WMD technology. In the closing years of the cold war, Pakistan was considered to have great strategic importance. It provided Washington with a springboard into neighbouring Afghanistan - a route for passing US weapons and cash to the mujahideen, who were battling to oust the Soviet army that had invaded in 1979. Barlow says, "We had to buddy-up to regimes we didn't see eye-to-eye with, but I could not believe we would actually give Pakistan the bomb.}

    (TheGuardian 2007. [ The man who knew too much.
    He was the CIA's expert on Pakistan's nuclear secrets, but Rich Barlow was thrown out and disgraced when he blew the whistle on a US cover-up. Now he's to have his day in court. Adrian Levy and Cathy Scott-Clark report])

    , @annamaria
    "Muslims are in love with terrorism..."

    The ongoing wars in the Middle East represent massive terrorist actions waged by the US/Israel/EU against muslims and christians living in the Middle East.

    It was Irgun (Odessa) gang that introduced terrorism to Palestine. And look at the pleasures of Purim - a celebration of a cleverly-designed act of terrorism against native population of Persia by the ungrateful Jewish guests. Persia (Iran) was already a great civilization when the wondering semiliterate Jews invaded Canaan and exterminated its inhabitants. Is not that glorious...

    Have you heard about any powerful Iranian making announcements that are similar in spirit to Samson Option? - No? - Then perhaps you need to look for terrorists among your folks. By developing the zionist project in the Middle East, the ziocons have inflicted a tremendous harm on European population (see desperate refugees and intellectually-inadequate sub-Saharan migrants storming fortress Europe, while at the same time endangering the well-being of Jewish population in EU and beyond.

    Also, it seems that the recent US' pledge to give Israel another $38 billion is nothing for Israelis like you.
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  116. Alden says:
    @survey-of-disinfo
    A few comments:

    * It should be obvious that Israel views USA as a strategic foe, in the long run.

    * sure, live like a king but in debt to house of R. Seem to recall the next episode in this king's life is a fast moving blade and head in a basket. More seriously, wage slavery goes hand in hand with the current economic regime.

    * Clyde: various commentators have answered you effectively. Regarding Islam and the prophet of Islam (SAWS), who was called the "unlettered prophet" and this has been taken to mean "illiterate" but it actually means The Prophet of the Unlettered Nations (in contrast to tribe of Jacob (AS) who got "lettered" -- guided, as their semitic language makes clear) and that makes him (using Jewish terminology) The Goyim Prophet. You know, Jesus (AS) was very open about the fact that "I am only sent to the children of Israel". "scraps from the table of the master" you have been getting, but unless you are capable of leaving everthing earthly possession (c.f. camel and needle) you will NOT enter into the Kingdom. So my advice to you is consider the fact that Muhammad (SAWS) said "I have been sent as a mercy" in context of your being outside the covenant that God made with Jacob (AS).

    * Anti-semitism is strictly a Western phenomena that is fundamentally rooted in the bifurcated power structures of Occident. Levant's kings never had any need for "King's Jews" since their intellectuals were not locked behind monestary walls and deeply committed to the rival power structure of the Church of Rome. Every single pogrom of Jews happened at the hand of "Whites". Remember Clyde: never forgive never forget is the motto of your Israeli "allies".

    The Romans were complaining about the Jews long before Christianity. Just because monks maintained libraries and colleges does not mean there were no other intellectuals in Europe. Many students at the monastic colleges went back to civilian life and married after they completed their studies.

    The industrial revolution had its roots in a thousand years of ordinary small business men, mechanics and tradesmen coming up with small improvements that led to modern machinery and inventions.

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  117. Clyde says:
    @Ace
    David Gelbaum alone gave $100 million - and $20 million annually thereafter - to the Sierra Club on condition that if the Club ever "came out anti-immigration" it would receive no more money from him.

    Ostensibly it was based on his fond memories of his immigrant grandparents and his wanting to ensure that no one else should be denied the opportunity to emmigrate here, iirc, America to remain the sponge to the entire world to clean up every social and economic problem known to man. A dumping ground as it were.

    Moreover, Gelbaum's dear grandparents were illegals, iirc. They were refused entry in New York for health reasons and had to sneak in from Canada. This is the option Gelbaum wants to preserve, assuming I've provided an accurate account. Or even if not. Open borders is not about legal immigration. I can't document that (illegal entry, health rejection) now but let's leave it that Gelbaum simply doesn't want to "dishonor the memory" of his grandparents. For that, whites should not object to 47 million immigrants.

    The ADL and BB caught the next rocket sled to Arizona when it enacted legislation to permit cops to enquire as to immigration status in making traffic stops. Organized US Jewry to the open-borders ramparts!

    That's an eminently fair assessment, I think. Jews for illegal third-world immigration! With some honorable exceptions, I don't see any visible objection on the part of patriotic Jews. Nothing like the strong, unabashed support for the Jewish ethnostate.

    My prediction is that rather than see such objections the response to arguments about Jewish support for open borders will be the charge of "anti-Semite." (Non-Jewish morons like the Catholic and Mormon churches also advocate open borders but that's another story.)

    Adelson's no. 1 issue is Israel and he is also an open borders kinda guy. He donates millions to Republicans, as Saban and Singer do to the Dems. The latter two are also open borders guys. You've heard of the Adelson primary which has amazing implications for American politics in general and open borders in particular. Newt, financed by Adelson, was without question in Adelson's pocket.

    No, these are not Israelis but surely you don't maintain that Israeli policies are not in lock step with American Jewish ones.

    The MacDonald thesis of diluting white majorities is a bizarre one (because what he describes is bizarre) but I've yet to see one that better explains the yet-more-lunatic Jewish support for open borders. Lunatic, of course, for the notion that Jews will be safer and fare better in a nation that bears no resemblance to the one that welcomed them with open arms and basically enabled them to prosper and run the country. (Cue video of standing ovations in Congress for Israeli leader.)

    David Gelbaum alone gave $100 million – and $20 million annually thereafter – to the Sierra Club on condition that if the Club ever “came out anti-immigration” it would receive no more money from him.

    Ostensibly it was based on his fond memories of his immigrant grandparents and his wanting to ensure that no one else should be denied the opportunity to emmigrate here, iirc, America to remain the sponge to the entire world to clean up every social and economic problem known to man. A dumping ground as it were.

    Moreover, Gelbaum’s dear grandparents were illegals, iirc. They were refused entry in New York for health reasons and had to sneak in from Canada. This is the option Gelbaum wants to preserve, assuming I’ve provided an accurate account. Or even if not. Open borders is not about legal immigration. I can’t document that (illegal entry, health rejection) now but let’s leave it that Gelbaum simply doesn’t want to “dishonor the memory” of his grandparents. For that, whites should not object to 47 million immigrants.

    I have been aware of Gelbaum and his bribing the Sierra Club for at least ten years. Before Gelbaum the Sierra Club was vocal about not crowding millions of third worlders into America thus trashing our ecology. The immigrant burden on Califonia’s water supply and eco-systems is very obvious these days.
    Gelbaum’s wife is Mexican derived. He likes tending his vegetable garden with her.
    For decades I have been against America being a dumping ground for the third world.

    About Gelbaum’s grandparents sneaking in here via Canada…. I would appreciate if you can post anything more on this. Never heard this one before.

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    • Replies: @Ace
    I'm sorry. I tried to find the source of this idea in my head before I posted but couldn't find it. I'm reasonably sure my memory is accurate about what I read but darned if I can prove it. If I do better with my desktop or notes at home I'll let you know.
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  118. Art says:
    @Anonymous
    Well, is that any different when it comes to Palestinian children who stab Israeli (citizens or occupiers, it has no relevance here) or at least try to?

    Like a fine intellectual wrote, the youth is "planted, raised, pruned, cropped".

    Groups of humans that have had it harder than Western gentiles are still nearer to the original tribal condition.
    Western gentiles are the laxer of all, a sign that they had it the less hard than all in the last centuries, probably.

    Before you pedestal them, you may want to ask yourself what they were doing, wrangling against every other like street thugs since the mid-19th to the end of WWII, Germany hating the Brits and France, France hating the Brits and Germany, Spain hating France and Britain, Britain and France seeing Italy and Spain like their pet doormats.

    Well, is that any different when it comes to Palestinian children who stab Israeli (citizens or occupiers, it has no relevance here) or at least try to?

    You disgrace humanity with your ugly comparison.

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  119. Clyde says:
    @Talha
    Good one bro - I'm a Sufi, but a lousy one, eh??!! Istighfar time!

    Thanks for the advice!

    Wa salaam.

    You say you are Sufi but my bet is you were not born Sufi. Sufi has a good peaceful reputation in the terminally naive West. But Sufis have made Jihad too and are the prime anti-Hindu fighters in Jammu-Kashmir.
    But all in all Sufi have not made nearly as much Jihad wars as Sunnis have.

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    • Replies: @Talha
    Born Sufi??!! Born Sunni??!! What does that even mean?

    The fact that you actually make a distinction between Sunni and Sufi shows me what a colossal waste of time this is. Years of daily readings of Spencer (I believe you said) and you are at this level...Wow!

    Sufis have made jihad, quite impressively actually:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdelkader_El_Djezairi - Christians in Iowa named a town after him (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elkader,_Iowa)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_Mukhtar
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imam_Shamil

    Don't want to die at the rifle barrels of warrior saints - don't land on their shores or enter their forests with young armed men.

    Peace.

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  120. @Clyde
    I have chosen my sides. I am pro-Israel and pro-Western civilization. You can have your Iran and your Muslims. You can have your wacky Sunnis and Shiites. You can have your mass murdering ISIS killing and raping the Christians of Iraq and Syria. Hillary will not be Israel friendly no matter how much she gets in US Jewish donor money so go vote for her. This is my advice to all you Israel obsessives.
    DJT will be neutral on Israel to pro-Israel. Trump is more difficult to predict but he wants us out of the Middle East so this is not Israel helpful.
    You must choose between 1.7 billion brainwashed, Muhammad worshiping Muslims and 17 million Jews who have gentile controlling mind rays at their disposal.
    So which side are you on boys which side are you on?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iAIM02kv0g

    That is a false dichotomy. There is another option which is to side with the United States. The US doesn’t have to pick sides. We can follow our founding fathers advice and stay out of other people’s wars. Israel is talking to Russians about the fake peace process. Let it be Putin’s problem.

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  121. S. W. says:

    What can we do in Canada? All newspapers censure our posts on blogs. We have much more liberty here on American websites. In French Canada, people totally ignore what’s going on. The television and radio never said a single word, never showed a single picture, a single documentary on the millions of innocents who died during the last decades, in Lebanon, Libya, Syria, Palestine, and Africa. They carefully filter radio ”interventions” in order to manufacture public opinion and consent to have the okay for bombing and dividing Syria, exactly like they did for destroying Libya and killing thousands there by dropping 30 000 bombs on Libya. These ”medias” incessantly bash and demonize Syria, and Iran. Not a single word on the thousands dead due to the backing of rebels armed by the West.

    Not a word on Canadian soldiers deployed in Poland, Ukraine, and now in Kurdistan, these soldiers WEAR THE KURDISH flag and they train Kurds in order to fight Isis armed by the West ie rebels trained and armed in NATO allie Turkey!!

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    • Replies: @Ace
    We have embraced full-frontal schizophrenia. Foreign policy a la the three Stooges. I miss them. They were totally honest.
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  122. The terrorism Iran is guilty of engaging in over the past 20 years, is furnishing effective weapons and training to Hezbollah Defense Forces in Lebanon, to prevent Israel from defeating and occupying the country. The same logic applies to Bashar Assad of Syria, or anyone else, who dares defend itself by fighting back.

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  123. KenH says:

    My faith in Trump regarding Israel and foreign policy is not implicit given that his entourage his largely Jewish who I assume have some loyalty to Israel. So I think we’ll get America sort of first with Trump although if Izzy protests or if Ivanka whispers in daddy’s ear to be kinder to them we could be back to square one. If nothing else Israel has innumerable proxies in the U.S. Congress and in the media in case Trump strays too far off the reservation (i.e., has a foreign policy that is too fair, commonsensical and pro-American).

    FOX News is almost an extension of the Likud party.

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    • Replies: @Carroll Price
    I agree that when it comes to Trump's true feelings or intentions toward Israel, he represents a pig in a poke. Up to now, about the only thing anyone could deduce from the situation is that Israel has apparently not been successful in coming with anything with which to blackmail him into total submission.
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  124. annamaria says:
    @Alden
    I know all about the huge medieval kingdom of Poland/ Lithuania, that Poland once ruled a big part of Ukraine and that its territory once stretched from the Black to the Baltic Sea.

    So what's your point? That Russia and Poland battled over Ukraine 800 years ago? That Ukraine belongs to Russia? Well doesn't it? So what.
    You seem to think Russia is an upright, moral wonderful nation that will never again invade any territory belonging to another nation. Maybe that is true, maybe it isn't

    But to say Russia never invaded any other nation, well.......

    “Russia and Poland battled over Ukraine 800 years ago…”

    This is not what we know from the history of these two states. Russian state had gained any significance in the 16th century and was invaded by Poland in the 17th.

    “You seem to think Russia is an upright, moral wonderful nation that will never again invade any territory belonging to another nation…”

    The article is about demonization of Russian Federation by the Empire of Federal Reserve; the encroachment of NATO to the RF borders, and the bloody wars of aggression/regime change in the Middle East and Ukraine, which have endangered Russian Federation. I care not about comparing certain personalities (though that could be instructive) but tremble for the fate of humanity if two nuclear powers go into conflict. Please take a notice the US’ intentions on provoking RF towards conventional wars in Eastern Europe (via NATO) and Middle East (via US/SA/Israel-sponsored “moderate” terrorists). The US are thousands miles aways from the military theater whereas RF has it at her doors. Again, what are the territories that RF invaded after the dissolution of the USSR? Why the US are so aggressively against the RF cooperation with Europe? What events have created ISIS? What is Yinon Plan?

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    • Agree: Ace
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  125. @timamac
    So many other important topics and issues to write about, instead another story about "evil" Israel.

    tinamac,
    Please name some of “other important topics” that should push any story about “evil Israel” from print.
    I am personally outraged that America has allied itself with a racist, land-stealing monster of a country that has perverted our Congress, and lied America into wasting Trillion of dollars fighting its crappy little wars to demolish all of its neighbors. I think that the stink and perfidy of elected officials of this country aiding these racist monsters should be in 50 point headlines. But go ahead, give us some more of your hasbara garbage – I need to get my blood boiling first thing in the morning

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  126. Talha says:
    @Marcus
    Some of the Mongols were friendly to Christians, hence the Prester John legend. They sacked Kiev and made some incursions into Poland and Hungary, but overall they (and later Timur) bought Europe valuable time.

    Hey Marcus,

    Indeed – and some of the Mongol leaders were Christian (and were accompanied by Armenian divisions and others), like the one who invaded the Levant. But you and I both know that their tactics remained mostly the same whether they were Christian or Muslim (like Tamerlane). So religion didn’t do much to dent their fury – at least initially.

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Marcus
    True, but Timur and his successors did distinguish between Muslims and everyone else, though they were more often than not fighting other Muslims.

    "Many of the Rajputs placed their wives and children in their houses and burned them, then they rushed to the battle and were killed. Other men of the garrison fought and were slain, and a great many were taken prisoners. Next day I gave orders that the Mussalman prisoners should be separated and saved, but that the infidels should all be despatched to hell with the proselytising sword. I also ordered that the houses of the sayids, shaiks, and learned Mussalmans should be preserved, but that all the other houses should plundered and the fort destroyed."
     
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  127. Andrei Martyanov [AKA "SmoothieX12"] says: • Website
    @Talha
    Hey Smoothie,

    You seem to ignore a reality that Islam and Sharia are not compatible with Christendom on a fundamental level, period.
     
    You seem to ignore that I never made that claim in any of my replies to Clyde, stay on point, bro. You also seem to ignore that Christendom of a few centuries ago is also not compatible with Christendom of today on a fundamental level.

    Robert Reilly and Islamic scholars he worked with are also Robert Spencer’s stooges
     
    Never said that. Robert Reilly makes fundamental mistakes on Islam in every article of his that I've read (what Islamic scholars is he working with??!!). And yes, he is also a boon to Zionists, that shouldn't technically count - but of course it does.

    Here he is talking about the invention of the 'Palestinians':
    http://www.crisismagazine.com/2012/why-invent-the-palestinians

    Abdurrahman Wahid made critical assessments of fundamental, systemic problems in the Muslim world. That is quite welcome criticism. Even some well-known Salafi scholars, like Sh. Yusuf Qaradawi has done the same:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Pk2-vr4sSw

    It's called "tough love" and "truth hurts". My teachers are constantly reminding us to look inward and fixing ourselves. It's the false prophet that tells you everything is fine and inflates your ego.

    it is a complete civilizational failure
     

    From a materialist standpoint, quite so. Since when did I ever make the claim that I posit materialist progress as the benchmark of civilization? That is your benchmark, not mine.
    "By Allah, it is not poverty I fear for you, but rather I fear you will be given the wealth of the world just as it was given to those before you. You will compete for it just as they competed for it and it will destroy you just as it destroyed them." - Reported in Bukhari

    coerced by Muslim mob
     
    I've called for Muslim mobs or ethnic Muslim criminal syndicates when exactly? I'm a Sufi, bro. Read through my posts - I state clearly as my teachers do; Muslims must obey the canon of the land and that it is their Islamic duty to do so. If they don't like the rules here, they can leave - it's that simple. If they want to act like a mob and threaten the well-being of other citizens, they should not be tolerated just as Muslims would not tolerate it in their lands. Kick them out - I'm not stopping you.

    Islam is not welcome
     
    Your opinion.

    nor is it going to be “integrated” on its own terms.
     
    Why should it? The Eastern Europeans (Hapsburgs) and Russians (after Ivan brought the Tatar Khanates under his dominion) already provided a reasonable model for integration under their terms. It is basically a reverse-dhimmi model where the Christians are the recognized alpha group. That worked for quite a long time for Russia. The Hapsburgs had elite Muslim Bosniak divisions in their army that served with distinction (they were allowed to wear fez's baby!):
    http://www.naval-military-press.com/emperor-s-bosniaks-the-bosnian-herzegovinian-troops-in-the-k.-u.-k.-army.html

    Western Christendom never really got a good model off the ground because they reneged on the terms of the surrender of the Moors (to allow them to remain in a reverse-dhimmi contract) and booted them out.
    http://voyager.dvc.edu/~mpowell/afam/surrendergranada.pdf

    Eastern Europe and the US have bigger fish to fry and they aren't Muslim fish. If you think a 3% Muslim population is something to worry about, then I am amused at your mental gymnastics to arrive at any confidence in your claim to civilization. Muslims are losing plenty of numbers to atheism and Western secularism, then again, they are gaining plenty of numbers with conversions. This is all in the open, nobody is forcing anyone to convert - people can read what your homeboy, Reilly, says about Islam and see if it appeals to them.

    Peace.

    You also seem to ignore that Christendom of a few centuries ago is also not compatible with Christendom of today on a fundamental level.

    It is a funny thing, since what combined West achieved in positive connotation today has the seeds and the root in precisely this “Christendom of a few centuries ago”.

    Never said that. Robert Reilly makes fundamental mistakes on Islam in every article of his that I’ve read (what Islamic scholars is he working with??!!). And yes, he is also a boon to Zionists, that shouldn’t technically count – but of course it does.

    And I, for some dumb reason, still think that overwhelming empirical evidence somehow should point out to mistakes in Islam. Robert Spences, btw, is a fervent Israeli-firster, yet–he will eat any Islamic “scholar” for lunch and will not even notice it. You see, this is the favorite shtick of (faux?)intellectual Muslims–to turn discussion into some recitation of problems with verbiage not substance but each time it is asked “show me the money” it all comes down to Israel. I am not pro-Israeli, in fact, I am sick and tired of this Jewish smugness but let’s not conflate problems with Palestine and Israel (or whatever the current narrative) with REAL problems with Islam. Israel-firsters’ utilizing REAL problems with Islam for their own sake does not cancel REAL problems with and within Islam. Again, an overwhelming empirical evidence exists on that issue. I underscore-overwhelming.

    Your opinion.

    No, it is not mine–it is based on a variety of open (and suppressed) polls and on what Huntington defined as sotto voce of people.

    Why should it? The Eastern Europeans (Hapsburgs) and Russians (after Ivan brought the Tatar Khanates under his dominion) already provided a reasonable model for integration under their terms. It is basically a reverse-dhimmi model where the Christians are the recognized alpha group. That worked for quite a long time for Russia.

    It was more complex than that and you forgot to mention 70 years of Communism/Socialism which sometimes brutally, sometimes softly secularized Russia’s organic Muslim population of Tatars and Bashkirs, among many. They went through the process unknown to the rest of Ummah, foundation of which was a massive and highly scientific (secular) education and industrialization. It is still highly relevant today. Ummah could only dream about the level of industrial, scientific, educational achievements of places such as Azerbaijan, Tatarstan or Bashkortostan had and still, largely, have. It was and is simply beyond the reach of most of Ummah even today.

    people can read what your homeboy, Reilly, says about Islam and see if it appeals to them.

    I am sure ISIS and Al Qaeda, among many, or Saudi Arabia’s “attractive” image provide all necessary appearances. I also think that French or Swedish cities becoming shitholes due to the cultural “enrichment” works well in support of your theories;-)

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    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey Smoothie,

    Spencer's a joke - his interpretation of Islam is Daesh's interpretation of Islam - not impressed. I point out his angle to let everyone know the man is no objective academic.

    I underscore-overwhelming.
     
    Sure you do - that's why you are not Muslim and I am. That's pretty obvious. I can see you are itching for a theological debate or something. No thanks, I've made it clear that I don't debate theology - way too subjective; you and I don't even agree on a baseline definition for 'civilization'. I've being putting Clyde's feet to the fire over historical record and fact - not theology.

    It was more complex than that and you forgot to mention 70 years of Communism/Socialism
     
    Course it was - but Ivan, Catherine (http://www.indiana.edu/~cahist/Readings/2010Fall/Islam_and_Modernity/Fisher_Enlightened_Despotism.pdf) and the Hapsburgs predated Communism. They had a more stable institution of coexistence (once the Russians eased back on the forced baptisms under Catherine). What communism has done has unfortunately cut off a large number of the population from their historical Sunni Orthodox roots and thus made many susceptible to extremist Wahhabi/Salafi interpretations. One of my spiritual teachers made an extensive travel of the former Soviet Central Asian states and mentioned the damage that communism did to the tradition. It'll take more time to get back on track - the people of that area have been a reservoir of the foundational knowledge (religious and secular) of the Muslims.

    Ummah could only dream about the level of industrial, scientific, educational achievements of places such as Azerbaijan, Tatarstan or Bashkortostan had and still, largely, have.
     
    Sure...you keep tooting the materialist horn - I already know that is your benchmark of civilization.
    http://www.storyit.com/Classics/Stories/tortoisehare.htm

    I love it! Stick to talking about Daesh, al-Queda and Saudi - as if they are the only Muslims in existence - I mean Spencer does. Now who's deflecting? Do all you can to make sure someone doesn't look up something like 'Selangor skyline' - LOL!

    You are quite right about the tragedy unfolding in France and Sweden - the Muslims have not been good guests on the whole and I believe it is only a matter of time before things come to a head where the host population loses its patience. I pray for a peaceful resolution, but I have also read enough history.

    Peace.
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  128. Marcus says:
    @Clyde
    You remark is mostly accurate but Obama is our very own Third World president running an occupation government in Washingtoon DC. Don't blame me if most Americans are oblivious to this.
    His father was third worlder and did not even bother to illegally immigrate here. He dropped his bad seed here into a young, naive, 17 year old American woman named Ann Dunham and was then gonezo back to Kenya.
    Now as a good loyal Third Worlder you think Obama likes Israel? Or is neutral on Israel? This is crazy. His prime act of sabotage and revenge again Israel was the big Iran deal. Helping/paying out billions to Iran to develop nuclear weapons over time. Any white European person who thinks Muslims + nukes is a good thing is clinically insane.
    Muslims are in love with terrorism, always have been, and nukes are the ultimate terrorist weapon. They make your terrorist threats much more credible.

    Iran doesn’t want or need nuclear weapons. Much safer for them to be under Russia’s umbrella. Much worse is the US ally Pakistan, an outright terror state, having both nuclear weapons and modern delivery systems. By the way, Pakistan names their missiles after Muslim invaders like Ghazni and Ghori, imagine Germany naming missiles after Goering or Himmler!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
    a life lesson: never depend on others if you can help it yourself.

    this lesson works on everything, especially countries.
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  129. Andrei Martyanov [AKA "SmoothieX12"] says: • Website

    Iran doesn’t want or need nuclear weapons. Much safer for them to be under Russia’s umbrella

    Russia and Iran are situational “allies”. For now it is a marriage of the convenience. Iran considers herself and, in fact, is a major regional player, which inevitably will also, after solving her regional tasks, will see no need for Russia, or may even see Russia as an obstacle.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Marcus
    I don't think Iran can ever rise much further than that being non-Arab and Shia. So they'll need Russian protection for the foreseeable future
    , @Clyde

    Russia and Iran are situational “allies”. For now it is a marriage of the convenience. Iran considers herself and, in fact, is a major regional player, which inevitably will also, after solving her regional tasks, will see no need for Russia, or may even see Russia as an obstacle.
     
    Selling weaponry, antiaircraft missile systems, nuclear reactors and other military items. Putin's Russia and Putin's cronies make billions from commerce with Iran. Iran sells Russia pistachios and this must be about it. This is why Russia is an Iranian friend and ally. Plus they have the same objectives for Syria and Assad.
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  130. Talha says:
    @Clyde
    You say you are Sufi but my bet is you were not born Sufi. Sufi has a good peaceful reputation in the terminally naive West. But Sufis have made Jihad too and are the prime anti-Hindu fighters in Jammu-Kashmir.
    But all in all Sufi have not made nearly as much Jihad wars as Sunnis have.

    Born Sufi??!! Born Sunni??!! What does that even mean?

    The fact that you actually make a distinction between Sunni and Sufi shows me what a colossal waste of time this is. Years of daily readings of Spencer (I believe you said) and you are at this level…Wow!

    Sufis have made jihad, quite impressively actually:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdelkader_El_Djezairi – Christians in Iowa named a town after him (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elkader,_Iowa)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_Mukhtar

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imam_Shamil

    Don’t want to die at the rifle barrels of warrior saints – don’t land on their shores or enter their forests with young armed men.

    Peace.

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  131. @Marcus
    Iran doesn't want or need nuclear weapons. Much safer for them to be under Russia's umbrella. Much worse is the US ally Pakistan, an outright terror state, having both nuclear weapons and modern delivery systems. By the way, Pakistan names their missiles after Muslim invaders like Ghazni and Ghori, imagine Germany naming missiles after Goering or Himmler!

    a life lesson: never depend on others if you can help it yourself.

    this lesson works on everything, especially countries.

    Read More
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  132. Avery says:
    @Clyde
    You remark is mostly accurate but Obama is our very own Third World president running an occupation government in Washingtoon DC. Don't blame me if most Americans are oblivious to this.
    His father was third worlder and did not even bother to illegally immigrate here. He dropped his bad seed here into a young, naive, 17 year old American woman named Ann Dunham and was then gonezo back to Kenya.
    Now as a good loyal Third Worlder you think Obama likes Israel? Or is neutral on Israel? This is crazy. His prime act of sabotage and revenge again Israel was the big Iran deal. Helping/paying out billions to Iran to develop nuclear weapons over time. Any white European person who thinks Muslims + nukes is a good thing is clinically insane.
    Muslims are in love with terrorism, always have been, and nukes are the ultimate terrorist weapon. They make your terrorist threats much more credible.

    {Helping/paying out billions to Iran to develop nuclear weapons over time. }

    US is not ‘paying out’ $ billions to Iran.
    It was their $ billions that US illegally froze: in effect preventing Iran from using their own money to invest, earn interest, etc. Theft.
    And even if US had not gone along, EU would lift the sanctions regardless, so it was a moot point. US saw the writing on the wall and went along, Obama or no Obama.

    {Any white European person who thinks Muslims + nukes is a good thing is clinically insane.}

    That train left the station a long time ago.
    As others have pointed out, radical Islamistan Pakistan does have nukes and tested delivery systems: max range of their nuke missile is advertised as 1,700 miles.

    And guess what: US helped Islamistan Pakistan develop nukes.

    {In the late 80s, in the course of tracking down smugglers of WMD components, Barlow uncovered reams of material that related to Pakistan. It was known the Islamic Republic had been covertly striving to acquire nuclear weapons since India’s explosion of a device in 1974 and the prospect terrified the west – especially given the instability of a nation that had had three military coups in less than 30 years . Straddling deep ethnic, religious and political fault-lines, it was also a country regularly rocked by inter-communal violence. “Pakistan was the kind of place where technology could slip out of control,” Barlow says.

    He soon discovered, however, that senior officials in government were taking quite the opposite view: they were breaking US and international non-proliferation protocols to shelter Pakistan’s ambitions and even sell it banned WMD technology. In the closing years of the cold war, Pakistan was considered to have great strategic importance. It provided Washington with a springboard into neighbouring Afghanistan – a route for passing US weapons and cash to the mujahideen, who were battling to oust the Soviet army that had invaded in 1979. Barlow says, “We had to buddy-up to regimes we didn’t see eye-to-eye with, but I could not believe we would actually give Pakistan the bomb.}

    (TheGuardian 2007. [ The man who knew too much.
    He was the CIA's expert on Pakistan's nuclear secrets, but Rich Barlow was thrown out and disgraced when he blew the whistle on a US cover-up. Now he's to have his day in court. Adrian Levy and Cathy Scott-Clark report])

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    • Agree: Marcus
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey Avery,


    That train left the station a long time ago.
     
    Quite so - there is not a weapon system in the world that will not eventually be aped by someone other than its founders. Best thing for everyone of us to support is a complete nuclear disarmament and a permanent neutral inspections protocol for any nation above a certain industrial standard.

    Peace.
    , @SolontoCroesus
    Hey Avery,

    Did you know this -- that the Young Turks who deposed the Ottoman sultan and instigated the Armenian genocide were "financed and led by Jews from the Balkans . . . Founded by Emanuel Carasso of Salonika, then in Turkey, now in Greece.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmrHBT5h-BA
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  133. Che Guava says:

    Alas, too many comments here for Mr. Giraldi to read mine, I think.

    A Comstock was a big man in the lead up to Prohibition. I forget the name F. Scott Fitzgerald used, I think the same, but the earlier Comstock was in the background of The Beautiful and Damned, at least.

    Comstock is an unusual surname in English, so I estimate the probability of her not being a relative as approaching zero.

    Disgusting how your politicians are bought by compulsory junkets to Israel, but seems to apply to all English-speaking countries, and many others in western Europe.

    Hideous phenomenon.

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  134. Marcus says:
    @Talha
    Hey Marcus,

    Indeed - and some of the Mongol leaders were Christian (and were accompanied by Armenian divisions and others), like the one who invaded the Levant. But you and I both know that their tactics remained mostly the same whether they were Christian or Muslim (like Tamerlane). So religion didn't do much to dent their fury - at least initially.

    Peace.

    True, but Timur and his successors did distinguish between Muslims and everyone else, though they were more often than not fighting other Muslims.

    “Many of the Rajputs placed their wives and children in their houses and burned them, then they rushed to the battle and were killed. Other men of the garrison fought and were slain, and a great many were taken prisoners. Next day I gave orders that the Mussalman prisoners should be separated and saved, but that the infidels should all be despatched to hell with the proselytising sword. I also ordered that the houses of the sayids, shaiks, and learned Mussalmans should be preserved, but that all the other houses should plundered and the fort destroyed.”

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  135. Talha says:
    @Clyde

    And I’m not paid by Zionist fund raisers – technically that shouldn’t count, but of course it does.
     
    I am sure you could find anti-Israel leftist Jews who would pay you to debate Robert Spencer. Robert Spencer does not live an extravagant life so "The Zionists" you are yapping about must not pay very well. And he knows Muslim wackos could try and kill him at any time. How would you like to live like this? You are aware that Muslims have killed their critics in Europe. Again emulating Muhammad who proclaimed that he had become victorious through terror.
    Remember when Sunni Muslims were bombing all those Shiite mosques and market places in Iraq from 2004-2008? They were murdering 30-100 Shiites at a time via bombings. Car bombs and suicide bombs. This anti-Shiite Jihad was also emulating Muhammad's terrorist tactics that Muhammad bragged about, that had made him victorious.

    "The Prophet Muhammad boasted, “I have been made victorious with terror". [Bukhari: 4.52.220]
     

    Robert Spencer does not live an extravagant life so “The Zionists” you are yapping about must not pay very well.

    Wait a minute, are you saying his paymasters aren’t generous with their sheckels – because (gasp!) they’re Jews??!! What are you – some kind of racist? LOL!

    I don’t know man, $132K + $14K for blogging nonsense every year is not exactly ‘spartan’ living:

    http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/08/robert-spencer-david-horowitz-cash-in-on-hate/

    And he knows Muslim wackos could try and kill him at any time.

    Yeah, like homeboy is ducking ‘laau akbaar’ drivebys every week or something.

    Remember when Sunni Muslims were bombing all those Shiite mosques and market places in Iraq from 2004-2008?

    Yeah – I do – remind me of all the names of qualified Sunni muftis urging them on. Oh wait, they were getting slaughtered by the same extremists for speaking against them.

    “The Prophet Muhammad boasted, “I have been made victorious with terror”. [Bukhari: 4.52.220]

    Ah yes – this one – LOL! Of course this is actually correct, but not in the way you intend. The word in Arabic here is (رعب) which can encompass; panic, awe, terror – which is what God cast into the hearts of his enemies in order for them to give up without a fight. Same word used in this verse:
    “…and He cast terror into their hearts…” 59:2

    http://www.quranexplorer.com/Hadith/English/Hadith/bukhari/004.052.220.html

    And it continued after him, a Byzantine priest is reported to have advised the military leaders (talking about Khalid bin Walid [ra]):
    “Is the standard of this army a black one? Is the commander of this army a tall, powerfully built, broad shouldered man with a large beard and a few pock marks on his face? Then beware of fighting this army. ”

    If he meant what you intend, he would have used a perfectly clear word like ‘Hiraaba’ to connote terrorism.

    Peace.

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    • Replies: @Clyde

    Ah yes – this one – LOL! Of course this is actually correct, but not in the way you intend. The word in Arabic here is (رعب) which can encompass; panic, awe, terror – which is what God cast into the hearts of his enemies in order for them to give up without a fight. Same word used in this verse:
    “…and He cast terror into their hearts…” 59:2
    http://www.quranexplorer.com/Hadith/English/Hadith/bukhari/004.052.220.html
     
    That's just your Ahmadiyya/Sufi interpretation. That is a Muslim peacenik's interpretation. What happened in the real world is that Muhammad and his four Caliph successors reveled in deploying terrorism and tortures as a prime instrument of war. This is how they got their rocks off. Whether Allah exists or not, this alleged Allah had nothing to do with cities and peoples surrendering to Muhammad's terrorist armies of Jihad.
    , @Clyde
    Robert Spencer deserves good compensation for exposing Jihadist Islam. As of 2014 he was being paid even more at 178 + 22 thousands. He is a very busy man who travels quite a bit as part of his job. His two latest books are:
    The Complete Infidels' Guide to Iran. Regnery Press. July 11, 2016. p. 256. ISBN 978-1621575160.
    The Complete Infidel's Guide to ISIS, Regnery Publ., Aug. 2015, ISBN 978-1-62157-453-8.
    , @Ace
    It wasn't a ‘laau akbaar’ driveby that almost got Lars Hedegaard.

    Maybe you missed that one.

    Then there was the al-Hebdo action. Also up close and personal. Ixnay on the use of internal combustion engine.

    Then there was the attack on Naguib Mahfouz outside his home. A knife inserted in the blasphemer's neck by an informal scholar of and expert on blasphemy. See how you like that, mothertrucker!

    Given the scorecard on Muslim murder, mayhem, and rapine at ReligionofPeace.com - and the fact that every 7-11 clerk can issue a DIY fatwa if the fancy strikes him - a healthy concern for one's continued existence is hardly unwarranted.
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  136. Talha says:
    @Avery
    {Helping/paying out billions to Iran to develop nuclear weapons over time. }

    US is not 'paying out' $ billions to Iran.
    It was their $ billions that US illegally froze: in effect preventing Iran from using their own money to invest, earn interest, etc. Theft.
    And even if US had not gone along, EU would lift the sanctions regardless, so it was a moot point. US saw the writing on the wall and went along, Obama or no Obama.

    {Any white European person who thinks Muslims + nukes is a good thing is clinically insane.}

    That train left the station a long time ago.
    As others have pointed out, radical Islamistan Pakistan does have nukes and tested delivery systems: max range of their nuke missile is advertised as 1,700 miles.

    And guess what: US helped Islamistan Pakistan develop nukes.

    {In the late 80s, in the course of tracking down smugglers of WMD components, Barlow uncovered reams of material that related to Pakistan. It was known the Islamic Republic had been covertly striving to acquire nuclear weapons since India's explosion of a device in 1974 and the prospect terrified the west - especially given the instability of a nation that had had three military coups in less than 30 years . Straddling deep ethnic, religious and political fault-lines, it was also a country regularly rocked by inter-communal violence. "Pakistan was the kind of place where technology could slip out of control," Barlow says.

    He soon discovered, however, that senior officials in government were taking quite the opposite view: they were breaking US and international non-proliferation protocols to shelter Pakistan's ambitions and even sell it banned WMD technology. In the closing years of the cold war, Pakistan was considered to have great strategic importance. It provided Washington with a springboard into neighbouring Afghanistan - a route for passing US weapons and cash to the mujahideen, who were battling to oust the Soviet army that had invaded in 1979. Barlow says, "We had to buddy-up to regimes we didn't see eye-to-eye with, but I could not believe we would actually give Pakistan the bomb.}

    (TheGuardian 2007. [ The man who knew too much.
    He was the CIA's expert on Pakistan's nuclear secrets, but Rich Barlow was thrown out and disgraced when he blew the whistle on a US cover-up. Now he's to have his day in court. Adrian Levy and Cathy Scott-Clark report])

    Hey Avery,

    That train left the station a long time ago.

    Quite so – there is not a weapon system in the world that will not eventually be aped by someone other than its founders. Best thing for everyone of us to support is a complete nuclear disarmament and a permanent neutral inspections protocol for any nation above a certain industrial standard.

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Marcus
    Well, does MAD's deterrent effect on conventional wars outweigh the potential of nuclear exchange? Proliferation to countries like Pakistan and North Korea certainly complicates things, but even they have mostly limited their antics to provocations (Pakistani army recently crossed the ceasefire line).
    , @Avery
    Yo, Talha:

    {Best thing for everyone of us to support is a complete nuclear disarmament ....}

    Noble thought, except no country which has nukes will agree to get rid of them. And many who don't are or will be trying to get them.

    After WW2, the world was spared a couple of world wars thanks to nukes. With no nukes, is there any doubt that NATO/US would have invaded or attacked SU?

    China and Japan; India and Pakistan,.... there would be large wars all over the world. There were proxy wars for sure, like Viet Nam. But world wars would be far more destructive.

    Russia will never give up her nukes, because no promise by US to do the same would honored, and Russians know it.

    But the more countries acquire nukes, the more there is a chance of an accidental Extinction Level Event being triggered.
    And the country most responsible for the proliferation of nukes is US.
    Example: North Korea is developing nukes, because it knows US would B52 carpet bomb it to rubble with no nuke deterrent. South Korea has tried many times to approach NK, but Washington has thwarted the efforts every time. Washington needs tension and conflict all over the world to keep shoveling $ trillions into the maw of the MIC beast. Without the perennial "threats", the overtaxed American taxpayer might start objecting. It's a great business for the select few who benefit from the sweat of US taxpayer.
    No competition; practically unlimited budgets; massive profits.

    Nevertheless, I agree with you in your response to [Marcus] that {First off, I’m not convinced that we won’t accidentally trigger the apocalypse. } The famous incident with the Soviet sub during the Cuban Missile Crises. Lucky there was that 3rd Soviet officer who happened to be a fleet admiral on board to override the other two, who were going to launch nuke torpedoes. I mean the lives of 10s, maybe 100s of millions people depend on luck? How absurd is that?

    And it is a little disconcerting if what is being published is true: that it took just 2 officers on a Soviet sub to authorize a nuke launch. Hopefully Russian subs require more than 2 to authorize. Had an ex US Navy buddy at one of companies I worked for. He said US Navy subs require 6 to authorize a nuke launch.
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  137. Marcus says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    Iran doesn’t want or need nuclear weapons. Much safer for them to be under Russia’s umbrella
     
    Russia and Iran are situational "allies". For now it is a marriage of the convenience. Iran considers herself and, in fact, is a major regional player, which inevitably will also, after solving her regional tasks, will see no need for Russia, or may even see Russia as an obstacle.

    I don’t think Iran can ever rise much further than that being non-Arab and Shia. So they’ll need Russian protection for the foreseeable future

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  138. Talha says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    You also seem to ignore that Christendom of a few centuries ago is also not compatible with Christendom of today on a fundamental level.
     
    It is a funny thing, since what combined West achieved in positive connotation today has the seeds and the root in precisely this "Christendom of a few centuries ago".

    Never said that. Robert Reilly makes fundamental mistakes on Islam in every article of his that I’ve read (what Islamic scholars is he working with??!!). And yes, he is also a boon to Zionists, that shouldn’t technically count – but of course it does.
     
    And I, for some dumb reason, still think that overwhelming empirical evidence somehow should point out to mistakes in Islam. Robert Spences, btw, is a fervent Israeli-firster, yet--he will eat any Islamic "scholar" for lunch and will not even notice it. You see, this is the favorite shtick of (faux?)intellectual Muslims--to turn discussion into some recitation of problems with verbiage not substance but each time it is asked "show me the money" it all comes down to Israel. I am not pro-Israeli, in fact, I am sick and tired of this Jewish smugness but let's not conflate problems with Palestine and Israel (or whatever the current narrative) with REAL problems with Islam. Israel-firsters' utilizing REAL problems with Islam for their own sake does not cancel REAL problems with and within Islam. Again, an overwhelming empirical evidence exists on that issue. I underscore-overwhelming.

    Your opinion.
     
    No, it is not mine--it is based on a variety of open (and suppressed) polls and on what Huntington defined as sotto voce of people.

    Why should it? The Eastern Europeans (Hapsburgs) and Russians (after Ivan brought the Tatar Khanates under his dominion) already provided a reasonable model for integration under their terms. It is basically a reverse-dhimmi model where the Christians are the recognized alpha group. That worked for quite a long time for Russia.
     
    It was more complex than that and you forgot to mention 70 years of Communism/Socialism which sometimes brutally, sometimes softly secularized Russia's organic Muslim population of Tatars and Bashkirs, among many. They went through the process unknown to the rest of Ummah, foundation of which was a massive and highly scientific (secular) education and industrialization. It is still highly relevant today. Ummah could only dream about the level of industrial, scientific, educational achievements of places such as Azerbaijan, Tatarstan or Bashkortostan had and still, largely, have. It was and is simply beyond the reach of most of Ummah even today.

    people can read what your homeboy, Reilly, says about Islam and see if it appeals to them.
     
    I am sure ISIS and Al Qaeda, among many, or Saudi Arabia's "attractive" image provide all necessary appearances. I also think that French or Swedish cities becoming shitholes due to the cultural "enrichment" works well in support of your theories;-)

    Hey Smoothie,

    Spencer’s a joke – his interpretation of Islam is Daesh’s interpretation of Islam – not impressed. I point out his angle to let everyone know the man is no objective academic.

    I underscore-overwhelming.

    Sure you do – that’s why you are not Muslim and I am. That’s pretty obvious. I can see you are itching for a theological debate or something. No thanks, I’ve made it clear that I don’t debate theology – way too subjective; you and I don’t even agree on a baseline definition for ‘civilization’. I’ve being putting Clyde’s feet to the fire over historical record and fact – not theology.

    It was more complex than that and you forgot to mention 70 years of Communism/Socialism

    Course it was – but Ivan, Catherine (http://www.indiana.edu/~cahist/Readings/2010Fall/Islam_and_Modernity/Fisher_Enlightened_Despotism.pdf) and the Hapsburgs predated Communism. They had a more stable institution of coexistence (once the Russians eased back on the forced baptisms under Catherine). What communism has done has unfortunately cut off a large number of the population from their historical Sunni Orthodox roots and thus made many susceptible to extremist Wahhabi/Salafi interpretations. One of my spiritual teachers made an extensive travel of the former Soviet Central Asian states and mentioned the damage that communism did to the tradition. It’ll take more time to get back on track – the people of that area have been a reservoir of the foundational knowledge (religious and secular) of the Muslims.

    Ummah could only dream about the level of industrial, scientific, educational achievements of places such as Azerbaijan, Tatarstan or Bashkortostan had and still, largely, have.

    Sure…you keep tooting the materialist horn – I already know that is your benchmark of civilization.

    http://www.storyit.com/Classics/Stories/tortoisehare.htm

    I love it! Stick to talking about Daesh, al-Queda and Saudi – as if they are the only Muslims in existence – I mean Spencer does. Now who’s deflecting? Do all you can to make sure someone doesn’t look up something like ‘Selangor skyline’ – LOL!

    You are quite right about the tragedy unfolding in France and Sweden – the Muslims have not been good guests on the whole and I believe it is only a matter of time before things come to a head where the host population loses its patience. I pray for a peaceful resolution, but I have also read enough history.

    Peace.

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    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    I can see you are itching for a theological debate or something.
     
    God forbids. Quite opposite. I am not interested in discussing medieval delirium. You yourself answered the question for me.

    Sure…you keep tooting the materialist horn – I already know that is your benchmark of civilization.
     
    No, it is not my benchmark--it is a universal benchmark. And if for a cultural dimension of it--Islam doesn't even touch the feet of European culture in music, literature, visuals and ideas. All non-materialist manifestations of civilization. After all, Islam doesn't have Hellenic and Roman root, New Testament Christianity does. Anything in the human history was, is and will continue to be judged by the achievements: material, cultural and spiritual. It is just the way it is. Huntington, for all his mistakes, ended making a correct conclusion, which reduces to: is it possible to modernize without westernizing oneself. In Islam it is not possible in the absolute degree, elsewhere--it is the matter of proportions.
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  139. Marcus says:
    @Talha
    Hey Avery,


    That train left the station a long time ago.
     
    Quite so - there is not a weapon system in the world that will not eventually be aped by someone other than its founders. Best thing for everyone of us to support is a complete nuclear disarmament and a permanent neutral inspections protocol for any nation above a certain industrial standard.

    Peace.

    Well, does MAD’s deterrent effect on conventional wars outweigh the potential of nuclear exchange? Proliferation to countries like Pakistan and North Korea certainly complicates things, but even they have mostly limited their antics to provocations (Pakistani army recently crossed the ceasefire line).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Depends...

    First off, I'm not convinced that we won't accidentally trigger the apocalypse. I know there are certain fail-safes in place, but I have also read and watched videos on how close we came to nuclear exchange before. But beyond all of that, I cannot justify (morally) the use of a weapon - the precise intent of which is to completely obliterate all life (regardless of age, innocence or guilt) within a large radius. I can perhaps see its military use, in say a strike on a large mass of tanks crossing a desert or an aircraft carrier group in the middle of an ocean, but let's not fool ourselves that this is the intention behind these weapons. Call me naive, but that's the only stand I'm willing to take on the Day of Judgement.

    Peace.
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  140. Andrei Martyanov [AKA "SmoothieX12"] says: • Website
    @Talha
    Hey Smoothie,

    Spencer's a joke - his interpretation of Islam is Daesh's interpretation of Islam - not impressed. I point out his angle to let everyone know the man is no objective academic.

    I underscore-overwhelming.
     
    Sure you do - that's why you are not Muslim and I am. That's pretty obvious. I can see you are itching for a theological debate or something. No thanks, I've made it clear that I don't debate theology - way too subjective; you and I don't even agree on a baseline definition for 'civilization'. I've being putting Clyde's feet to the fire over historical record and fact - not theology.

    It was more complex than that and you forgot to mention 70 years of Communism/Socialism
     
    Course it was - but Ivan, Catherine (http://www.indiana.edu/~cahist/Readings/2010Fall/Islam_and_Modernity/Fisher_Enlightened_Despotism.pdf) and the Hapsburgs predated Communism. They had a more stable institution of coexistence (once the Russians eased back on the forced baptisms under Catherine). What communism has done has unfortunately cut off a large number of the population from their historical Sunni Orthodox roots and thus made many susceptible to extremist Wahhabi/Salafi interpretations. One of my spiritual teachers made an extensive travel of the former Soviet Central Asian states and mentioned the damage that communism did to the tradition. It'll take more time to get back on track - the people of that area have been a reservoir of the foundational knowledge (religious and secular) of the Muslims.

    Ummah could only dream about the level of industrial, scientific, educational achievements of places such as Azerbaijan, Tatarstan or Bashkortostan had and still, largely, have.
     
    Sure...you keep tooting the materialist horn - I already know that is your benchmark of civilization.
    http://www.storyit.com/Classics/Stories/tortoisehare.htm

    I love it! Stick to talking about Daesh, al-Queda and Saudi - as if they are the only Muslims in existence - I mean Spencer does. Now who's deflecting? Do all you can to make sure someone doesn't look up something like 'Selangor skyline' - LOL!

    You are quite right about the tragedy unfolding in France and Sweden - the Muslims have not been good guests on the whole and I believe it is only a matter of time before things come to a head where the host population loses its patience. I pray for a peaceful resolution, but I have also read enough history.

    Peace.

    I can see you are itching for a theological debate or something.

    God forbids. Quite opposite. I am not interested in discussing medieval delirium. You yourself answered the question for me.

    Sure…you keep tooting the materialist horn – I already know that is your benchmark of civilization.

    No, it is not my benchmark–it is a universal benchmark. And if for a cultural dimension of it–Islam doesn’t even touch the feet of European culture in music, literature, visuals and ideas. All non-materialist manifestations of civilization. After all, Islam doesn’t have Hellenic and Roman root, New Testament Christianity does. Anything in the human history was, is and will continue to be judged by the achievements: material, cultural and spiritual. It is just the way it is. Huntington, for all his mistakes, ended making a correct conclusion, which reduces to: is it possible to modernize without westernizing oneself. In Islam it is not possible in the absolute degree, elsewhere–it is the matter of proportions.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha

    it is a universal benchmark
     
    So you opine...

    Islam doesn’t have Hellenic and Roman root
     
    No it doesn't, but it has a very legitimate claim to preserving the Hellenistic legacy on its own terms. It is irrelevant to us if some anonymous person on the internet refuses to recognize that.

    Islam doesn’t even touch the feet of European culture in music, literature, visuals and ideas.
     
    First off, Islam is a religion - it is shared by a multitude of people; some of whom live in mud huts to this day and some of whom were building towers while a good portion of Europe was in mud huts. If you can't appreciate the poetry of Jaami, Saadi, Rumi, Attar (ra) or the aphorisms of Ibn Ata-illah (ra) or Imam Haddad (ra) that's your loss. Likewise if you can't appreciate the architecture of any of the grand mosques of the Muslim world - I can easily appreciate the marvelous Gothic cathedrals. Sorry, not looking to be vindicated by you or Huntington.

    is it possible to modernize without westernizing oneself
     
    Wrong question...define modernize and westernize first, then we can speak intelligently. But if one takes it on face value; "is it worth modernizing if it requires westernizing"? In the absolute degree of course...

    Peace.
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  141. Talha says:
    @Marcus
    Well, does MAD's deterrent effect on conventional wars outweigh the potential of nuclear exchange? Proliferation to countries like Pakistan and North Korea certainly complicates things, but even they have mostly limited their antics to provocations (Pakistani army recently crossed the ceasefire line).

    Depends…

    First off, I’m not convinced that we won’t accidentally trigger the apocalypse. I know there are certain fail-safes in place, but I have also read and watched videos on how close we came to nuclear exchange before. But beyond all of that, I cannot justify (morally) the use of a weapon – the precise intent of which is to completely obliterate all life (regardless of age, innocence or guilt) within a large radius. I can perhaps see its military use, in say a strike on a large mass of tanks crossing a desert or an aircraft carrier group in the middle of an ocean, but let’s not fool ourselves that this is the intention behind these weapons. Call me naive, but that’s the only stand I’m willing to take on the Day of Judgement.

    Peace.

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  142. Ace says:
    @Clyde

    David Gelbaum alone gave $100 million – and $20 million annually thereafter – to the Sierra Club on condition that if the Club ever “came out anti-immigration” it would receive no more money from him.

    Ostensibly it was based on his fond memories of his immigrant grandparents and his wanting to ensure that no one else should be denied the opportunity to emmigrate here, iirc, America to remain the sponge to the entire world to clean up every social and economic problem known to man. A dumping ground as it were.

    Moreover, Gelbaum’s dear grandparents were illegals, iirc. They were refused entry in New York for health reasons and had to sneak in from Canada. This is the option Gelbaum wants to preserve, assuming I’ve provided an accurate account. Or even if not. Open borders is not about legal immigration. I can’t document that (illegal entry, health rejection) now but let’s leave it that Gelbaum simply doesn’t want to “dishonor the memory” of his grandparents. For that, whites should not object to 47 million immigrants.
     

    I have been aware of Gelbaum and his bribing the Sierra Club for at least ten years. Before Gelbaum the Sierra Club was vocal about not crowding millions of third worlders into America thus trashing our ecology. The immigrant burden on Califonia's water supply and eco-systems is very obvious these days.
    Gelbaum's wife is Mexican derived. He likes tending his vegetable garden with her.
    For decades I have been against America being a dumping ground for the third world.

    About Gelbaum's grandparents sneaking in here via Canada.... I would appreciate if you can post anything more on this. Never heard this one before.

    I’m sorry. I tried to find the source of this idea in my head before I posted but couldn’t find it. I’m reasonably sure my memory is accurate about what I read but darned if I can prove it. If I do better with my desktop or notes at home I’ll let you know.

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    • Replies: @Clyde
    Thanks. Much appreciated!
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  143. Ace says:
    @S. W.
    What can we do in Canada? All newspapers censure our posts on blogs. We have much more liberty here on American websites. In French Canada, people totally ignore what's going on. The television and radio never said a single word, never showed a single picture, a single documentary on the millions of innocents who died during the last decades, in Lebanon, Libya, Syria, Palestine, and Africa. They carefully filter radio ''interventions'' in order to manufacture public opinion and consent to have the okay for bombing and dividing Syria, exactly like they did for destroying Libya and killing thousands there by dropping 30 000 bombs on Libya. These ''medias'' incessantly bash and demonize Syria, and Iran. Not a single word on the thousands dead due to the backing of rebels armed by the West.

    Not a word on Canadian soldiers deployed in Poland, Ukraine, and now in Kurdistan, these soldiers WEAR THE KURDISH flag and they train Kurds in order to fight Isis armed by the West ie rebels trained and armed in NATO allie Turkey!!

    We have embraced full-frontal schizophrenia. Foreign policy a la the three Stooges. I miss them. They were totally honest.

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  144. Clyde says:
    @Talha

    Robert Spencer does not live an extravagant life so “The Zionists” you are yapping about must not pay very well.
     
    Wait a minute, are you saying his paymasters aren't generous with their sheckels - because (gasp!) they're Jews??!! What are you - some kind of racist? LOL!

    I don't know man, $132K + $14K for blogging nonsense every year is not exactly 'spartan' living:
    http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/08/robert-spencer-david-horowitz-cash-in-on-hate/

    And he knows Muslim wackos could try and kill him at any time.
     
    Yeah, like homeboy is ducking 'laau akbaar' drivebys every week or something.

    Remember when Sunni Muslims were bombing all those Shiite mosques and market places in Iraq from 2004-2008?
     
    Yeah - I do - remind me of all the names of qualified Sunni muftis urging them on. Oh wait, they were getting slaughtered by the same extremists for speaking against them.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5tIoQwSQNY

    “The Prophet Muhammad boasted, “I have been made victorious with terror”. [Bukhari: 4.52.220]
     
    Ah yes - this one - LOL! Of course this is actually correct, but not in the way you intend. The word in Arabic here is (رعب) which can encompass; panic, awe, terror - which is what God cast into the hearts of his enemies in order for them to give up without a fight. Same word used in this verse:
    "...and He cast terror into their hearts..." 59:2
    http://www.quranexplorer.com/Hadith/English/Hadith/bukhari/004.052.220.html

    And it continued after him, a Byzantine priest is reported to have advised the military leaders (talking about Khalid bin Walid [ra]):
    “Is the standard of this army a black one? Is the commander of this army a tall, powerfully built, broad shouldered man with a large beard and a few pock marks on his face? Then beware of fighting this army. ”

    If he meant what you intend, he would have used a perfectly clear word like 'Hiraaba' to connote terrorism.

    Peace.

    Ah yes – this one – LOL! Of course this is actually correct, but not in the way you intend. The word in Arabic here is (رعب) which can encompass; panic, awe, terror – which is what God cast into the hearts of his enemies in order for them to give up without a fight. Same word used in this verse:
    “…and He cast terror into their hearts…” 59:2
    http://www.quranexplorer.com/Hadith/English/Hadith/bukhari/004.052.220.html

    That’s just your Ahmadiyya/Sufi interpretation. That is a Muslim peacenik’s interpretation. What happened in the real world is that Muhammad and his four Caliph successors reveled in deploying terrorism and tortures as a prime instrument of war. This is how they got their rocks off. Whether Allah exists or not, this alleged Allah had nothing to do with cities and peoples surrendering to Muhammad’s terrorist armies of Jihad.

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    • Replies: @Talha

    That’s just your Ahmadiyya/Sufi interpretation.
     
    No, your opinion coincides with Spencer and Daesh. Bring me a legitimate scholar (Bayhaqi, Daraqutni, Ibn Hajar [ra]) that claims your interpretation and I'll take you seriously. Secondly, I'm quite a Sunni - Ahmadiyya aren't Muslim.

    Muhammad and his four Caliph successors reveled in deploying terrorism
     
    Really??? You are full of opinions. The first Muslims captured a multitude of massive ancient capitals: Ctesiphon, Jerusalem, Alexandria, Damascus, etc. All captured through terms of surrender (there was no rape and pillage) - again, they foolishly met the Muslims out in pitched battle and thus left their towns without a legitimate garrison. The later Muslims, especially the Turkic ones did revel in plunder, unfortunately, but the good thing is they don't set the standards for us from a juristic perspective anymore than Ivan the Terrible or the Spanish Inquisition does for Christians.

    This is how they got their rocks off.
     
    How can anybody doubt your objectivity in these matters??? Heavens to mergatroid!

    And of course the Prophet (pbuh) set the best example in the conquest of Makkah - captured in surprise, without a fight and general population granted amnesty. The horror...the horror...

    You are like a broken record at this point - cite your sources - other than Darth Spencer.

    Peace.
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  145. Talha says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    I can see you are itching for a theological debate or something.
     
    God forbids. Quite opposite. I am not interested in discussing medieval delirium. You yourself answered the question for me.

    Sure…you keep tooting the materialist horn – I already know that is your benchmark of civilization.
     
    No, it is not my benchmark--it is a universal benchmark. And if for a cultural dimension of it--Islam doesn't even touch the feet of European culture in music, literature, visuals and ideas. All non-materialist manifestations of civilization. After all, Islam doesn't have Hellenic and Roman root, New Testament Christianity does. Anything in the human history was, is and will continue to be judged by the achievements: material, cultural and spiritual. It is just the way it is. Huntington, for all his mistakes, ended making a correct conclusion, which reduces to: is it possible to modernize without westernizing oneself. In Islam it is not possible in the absolute degree, elsewhere--it is the matter of proportions.

    it is a universal benchmark

    So you opine…

    Islam doesn’t have Hellenic and Roman root

    No it doesn’t, but it has a very legitimate claim to preserving the Hellenistic legacy on its own terms. It is irrelevant to us if some anonymous person on the internet refuses to recognize that.

    Islam doesn’t even touch the feet of European culture in music, literature, visuals and ideas.

    First off, Islam is a religion – it is shared by a multitude of people; some of whom live in mud huts to this day and some of whom were building towers while a good portion of Europe was in mud huts. If you can’t appreciate the poetry of Jaami, Saadi, Rumi, Attar (ra) or the aphorisms of Ibn Ata-illah (ra) or Imam Haddad (ra) that’s your loss. Likewise if you can’t appreciate the architecture of any of the grand mosques of the Muslim world – I can easily appreciate the marvelous Gothic cathedrals. Sorry, not looking to be vindicated by you or Huntington.

    is it possible to modernize without westernizing oneself

    Wrong question…define modernize and westernize first, then we can speak intelligently. But if one takes it on face value; “is it worth modernizing if it requires westernizing”? In the absolute degree of course…

    Peace.

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    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    So you opine…
     
    Well, there are numerous universally accepted metrics, including from UN, which do measure the degree of achievements. It is not my personal opinion, in the end, feel free to visit even CIA's World Factbook and see for yourself what factors are taken in consideration by this and very many other intelligence and analytical organizations. This is just one of many examples. Obviously, such POS index as HDI (Human Development Index) is also a metric, however lousy, and does exist. But in the end, the fact that Islamic World translates in 10 years fewer books than Spain does in 1 is also a metric.

    No it doesn’t, but it has a very legitimate claim to preserving the Hellenistic legacy on its own terms.
     
    Ahem, this is really funny statement. On what terms? Al Mamun tried it, using it, didn't work out in the end. What can possibly be common between Al Ghazali and Plato, I have no idea.

    First off, Islam is a religion – it is shared by a multitude of people; some of whom live in mud huts to this day and some of whom were building towers while a good portion of Europe was in mud huts
     
    Islam is Ummah and it is a civilization. Obviously it is not a monolith but civilization "is a culture writ large" (Roger Scruton) and a culture is a commonality of the behavioral matrix. In Islam this matrix is formed by Islam's teachings, in Christianity--it is Christian tradition and so on.

    If you can’t appreciate the poetry of Jaami, Saadi, Rumi, Attar (ra) or the aphorisms of Ibn Ata-illah (ra) or Imam Haddad (ra) that’s your loss
     
    I'll give you that, this could be the case. Yet, Omar Khayyam speaks to people globally, but he he could hardly be called a good Muslim.

    Wrong question…define modernize and westernize first, then we can speak intelligently.
     
    I''ll answer with the quote from some backwater non-writer and non-philosopher known as Leo Tolstoy. "A betterment of human condition"--that is the definition and I will abstain here from metaphysical. Factoring out the issue of war which IS a part of human nature (it is just that West due to its advancement made the war an industrial affair literally and in scale), one can not ignore the sum of all things that if not for the West we wouldn't have today antibiotics, TV, radio, MRI machines, air travel, satellites, internet, increasing life expectancy and on, and on, and on--all what can only be defined as "Betterment of human condition". West has a lot to atone for but it is this northern civilization where these very Islamic people who, for some reason, penetrate the borders of this Christendom, from Russia's underbelly (Russia is no.2 global destination for immigration after US) to Germany and Sweden, and have no regard for their "wonderful" Islamic culture. Somehow they define their interests in purely materialistic way. They are attracted to those places where this "betterment" is born. Hm, I wonder why? They want Sharia but only when it is financed by the welfare departments. Well, that is a separate issue and I do not argue, in fact, state that West Europe is mentally ill and I am not sure will have enough time to recover. But that is an afterthought.
    , @Marcus
    You might be interested to know that Omar Khayyam was quite popular in the English-speaking world after Edward FitzGerald's translation was published in the late 19th century, Rumi became widely known here around the 1920s and 30s. It's sad that modern academics decry "Orientalism," when the Orientalists are most responsible for bringing the region's heritage to the attention of its own people, not just Westerners; this is especially true in regards to the pre-Mohammedan past, which is regarded as an era of blackness jahiliyya by most orthodox Muslims. Regarding culture in Muslim history, I think this is a good summation

    Here too, we should distinguish between what Islam enjoins and what people who happen to be Muslims do. Thus, he says that Muslims contributed to Indian music. I am quite illiterate on art history, but I’ll take his word for it. However, if they did, they did it is spite of Islam, and not because of it. Mohammed closed his ears not to hear the music, and orthodox rulers like Aurangzeb and Ayatollah Khomeini issued measures against it. Likewise, the Moghul school of painting shows that human beings are inexorably fond of visual art, but does not disprove that Islam frowns on it.
     
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  146. Clyde says:
    @Talha

    Robert Spencer does not live an extravagant life so “The Zionists” you are yapping about must not pay very well.
     
    Wait a minute, are you saying his paymasters aren't generous with their sheckels - because (gasp!) they're Jews??!! What are you - some kind of racist? LOL!

    I don't know man, $132K + $14K for blogging nonsense every year is not exactly 'spartan' living:
    http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/08/robert-spencer-david-horowitz-cash-in-on-hate/

    And he knows Muslim wackos could try and kill him at any time.
     
    Yeah, like homeboy is ducking 'laau akbaar' drivebys every week or something.

    Remember when Sunni Muslims were bombing all those Shiite mosques and market places in Iraq from 2004-2008?
     
    Yeah - I do - remind me of all the names of qualified Sunni muftis urging them on. Oh wait, they were getting slaughtered by the same extremists for speaking against them.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5tIoQwSQNY

    “The Prophet Muhammad boasted, “I have been made victorious with terror”. [Bukhari: 4.52.220]
     
    Ah yes - this one - LOL! Of course this is actually correct, but not in the way you intend. The word in Arabic here is (رعب) which can encompass; panic, awe, terror - which is what God cast into the hearts of his enemies in order for them to give up without a fight. Same word used in this verse:
    "...and He cast terror into their hearts..." 59:2
    http://www.quranexplorer.com/Hadith/English/Hadith/bukhari/004.052.220.html

    And it continued after him, a Byzantine priest is reported to have advised the military leaders (talking about Khalid bin Walid [ra]):
    “Is the standard of this army a black one? Is the commander of this army a tall, powerfully built, broad shouldered man with a large beard and a few pock marks on his face? Then beware of fighting this army. ”

    If he meant what you intend, he would have used a perfectly clear word like 'Hiraaba' to connote terrorism.

    Peace.

    Robert Spencer deserves good compensation for exposing Jihadist Islam. As of 2014 he was being paid even more at 178 + 22 thousands. He is a very busy man who travels quite a bit as part of his job. His two latest books are:
    The Complete Infidels’ Guide to Iran. Regnery Press. July 11, 2016. p. 256. ISBN 978-1621575160.
    The Complete Infidel’s Guide to ISIS, Regnery Publ., Aug. 2015, ISBN 978-1-62157-453-8.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha

    As of 2014 he was being paid even more at 178 + 22 thousands.
     
    So why are you talking as if homie is living in the ghetto, ducking 'laaau akbaar' drive byes? He's obviously got some good compensation in this world for his - ahem - work. Zionist paymasters bring the bling!

    Peace.
    , @Clyde
    Why are you complaining about Robert Spencer's compensation? What the hell do you care? Like I said, Spencer does a great job exposing Islam and Islamic Jihad, so more power to him. I could care less if Jews, Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, and Hindus are paying him via their donations to the David Horowitz Freedom Foundation.
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  147. Clyde says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    Iran doesn’t want or need nuclear weapons. Much safer for them to be under Russia’s umbrella
     
    Russia and Iran are situational "allies". For now it is a marriage of the convenience. Iran considers herself and, in fact, is a major regional player, which inevitably will also, after solving her regional tasks, will see no need for Russia, or may even see Russia as an obstacle.

    Russia and Iran are situational “allies”. For now it is a marriage of the convenience. Iran considers herself and, in fact, is a major regional player, which inevitably will also, after solving her regional tasks, will see no need for Russia, or may even see Russia as an obstacle.

    Selling weaponry, antiaircraft missile systems, nuclear reactors and other military items. Putin’s Russia and Putin’s cronies make billions from commerce with Iran. Iran sells Russia pistachios and this must be about it. This is why Russia is an Iranian friend and ally. Plus they have the same objectives for Syria and Assad.

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  148. Talha says:
    @Clyde

    Ah yes – this one – LOL! Of course this is actually correct, but not in the way you intend. The word in Arabic here is (رعب) which can encompass; panic, awe, terror – which is what God cast into the hearts of his enemies in order for them to give up without a fight. Same word used in this verse:
    “…and He cast terror into their hearts…” 59:2
    http://www.quranexplorer.com/Hadith/English/Hadith/bukhari/004.052.220.html
     
    That's just your Ahmadiyya/Sufi interpretation. That is a Muslim peacenik's interpretation. What happened in the real world is that Muhammad and his four Caliph successors reveled in deploying terrorism and tortures as a prime instrument of war. This is how they got their rocks off. Whether Allah exists or not, this alleged Allah had nothing to do with cities and peoples surrendering to Muhammad's terrorist armies of Jihad.

    That’s just your Ahmadiyya/Sufi interpretation.

    No, your opinion coincides with Spencer and Daesh. Bring me a legitimate scholar (Bayhaqi, Daraqutni, Ibn Hajar [ra]) that claims your interpretation and I’ll take you seriously. Secondly, I’m quite a Sunni – Ahmadiyya aren’t Muslim.

    Muhammad and his four Caliph successors reveled in deploying terrorism

    Really??? You are full of opinions. The first Muslims captured a multitude of massive ancient capitals: Ctesiphon, Jerusalem, Alexandria, Damascus, etc. All captured through terms of surrender (there was no rape and pillage) – again, they foolishly met the Muslims out in pitched battle and thus left their towns without a legitimate garrison. The later Muslims, especially the Turkic ones did revel in plunder, unfortunately, but the good thing is they don’t set the standards for us from a juristic perspective anymore than Ivan the Terrible or the Spanish Inquisition does for Christians.

    This is how they got their rocks off.

    How can anybody doubt your objectivity in these matters??? Heavens to mergatroid!

    And of course the Prophet (pbuh) set the best example in the conquest of Makkah – captured in surprise, without a fight and general population granted amnesty. The horror…the horror…

    You are like a broken record at this point – cite your sources – other than Darth Spencer.

    Peace.

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    • Replies: @Sam Shama

    Ahmadiyya aren’t Muslim
     
    Hey Talha,
    Sorry to push in here bro. Is it true that Ahmadiyya's are not considered muslim?

    Clyde,
    I cannot stress emphatically enough how insidious Spencer's views are. His brand of Christian supremacy and philo-semitism are the last things this country, and more narrowly, Jews, need; being entirely based on vilifying Islam. He is a purveyor of negatives; and that's a game easily played on every religion.

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  149. annamaria says:
    @Clyde
    You remark is mostly accurate but Obama is our very own Third World president running an occupation government in Washingtoon DC. Don't blame me if most Americans are oblivious to this.
    His father was third worlder and did not even bother to illegally immigrate here. He dropped his bad seed here into a young, naive, 17 year old American woman named Ann Dunham and was then gonezo back to Kenya.
    Now as a good loyal Third Worlder you think Obama likes Israel? Or is neutral on Israel? This is crazy. His prime act of sabotage and revenge again Israel was the big Iran deal. Helping/paying out billions to Iran to develop nuclear weapons over time. Any white European person who thinks Muslims + nukes is a good thing is clinically insane.
    Muslims are in love with terrorism, always have been, and nukes are the ultimate terrorist weapon. They make your terrorist threats much more credible.

    “Muslims are in love with terrorism…”

    The ongoing wars in the Middle East represent massive terrorist actions waged by the US/Israel/EU against muslims and christians living in the Middle East.

    It was Irgun (Odessa) gang that introduced terrorism to Palestine. And look at the pleasures of Purim – a celebration of a cleverly-designed act of terrorism against native population of Persia by the ungrateful Jewish guests. Persia (Iran) was already a great civilization when the wondering semiliterate Jews invaded Canaan and exterminated its inhabitants. Is not that glorious…

    Have you heard about any powerful Iranian making announcements that are similar in spirit to Samson Option? – No? – Then perhaps you need to look for terrorists among your folks. By developing the zionist project in the Middle East, the ziocons have inflicted a tremendous harm on European population (see desperate refugees and intellectually-inadequate sub-Saharan migrants storming fortress Europe, while at the same time endangering the well-being of Jewish population in EU and beyond.

    Also, it seems that the recent US’ pledge to give Israel another $38 billion is nothing for Israelis like you.

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  150. Ace says:
    @Talha

    Robert Spencer does not live an extravagant life so “The Zionists” you are yapping about must not pay very well.
     
    Wait a minute, are you saying his paymasters aren't generous with their sheckels - because (gasp!) they're Jews??!! What are you - some kind of racist? LOL!

    I don't know man, $132K + $14K for blogging nonsense every year is not exactly 'spartan' living:
    http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/08/robert-spencer-david-horowitz-cash-in-on-hate/

    And he knows Muslim wackos could try and kill him at any time.
     
    Yeah, like homeboy is ducking 'laau akbaar' drivebys every week or something.

    Remember when Sunni Muslims were bombing all those Shiite mosques and market places in Iraq from 2004-2008?
     
    Yeah - I do - remind me of all the names of qualified Sunni muftis urging them on. Oh wait, they were getting slaughtered by the same extremists for speaking against them.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5tIoQwSQNY

    “The Prophet Muhammad boasted, “I have been made victorious with terror”. [Bukhari: 4.52.220]
     
    Ah yes - this one - LOL! Of course this is actually correct, but not in the way you intend. The word in Arabic here is (رعب) which can encompass; panic, awe, terror - which is what God cast into the hearts of his enemies in order for them to give up without a fight. Same word used in this verse:
    "...and He cast terror into their hearts..." 59:2
    http://www.quranexplorer.com/Hadith/English/Hadith/bukhari/004.052.220.html

    And it continued after him, a Byzantine priest is reported to have advised the military leaders (talking about Khalid bin Walid [ra]):
    “Is the standard of this army a black one? Is the commander of this army a tall, powerfully built, broad shouldered man with a large beard and a few pock marks on his face? Then beware of fighting this army. ”

    If he meant what you intend, he would have used a perfectly clear word like 'Hiraaba' to connote terrorism.

    Peace.

    It wasn’t a ‘laau akbaar’ driveby that almost got Lars Hedegaard.

    Maybe you missed that one.

    Then there was the al-Hebdo action. Also up close and personal. Ixnay on the use of internal combustion engine.

    Then there was the attack on Naguib Mahfouz outside his home. A knife inserted in the blasphemer’s neck by an informal scholar of and expert on blasphemy. See how you like that, mothertrucker!

    Given the scorecard on Muslim murder, mayhem, and rapine at ReligionofPeace.com – and the fact that every 7-11 clerk can issue a DIY fatwa if the fancy strikes him – a healthy concern for one’s continued existence is hardly unwarranted.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey Ace,

    Acknowledged - the crisis of authority is a very serious and legitimate criticism of the Muslim world right now and one that we need to take full responsibility for. Way too much sanguinary mood in too much of the people - and, of course, Muslims themselves are paying the price disproportionately.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/09/us/isis-threatens-muslim-preachers-who-are-waging-theological-battle-online.html?_r=0

    the fact that every 7-11 clerk can issue a DIY fatwa if the fancy strikes him
     
    Bingo - you hit the nail on the head there - this is our 'Reformation' and it's going about as smooth as the European one.

    a healthy concern for one’s continued existence is hardly unwarranted
     
    Have to admit, this is true...sad, but true.

    Peace.
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  151. Talha says:
    @Clyde
    Robert Spencer deserves good compensation for exposing Jihadist Islam. As of 2014 he was being paid even more at 178 + 22 thousands. He is a very busy man who travels quite a bit as part of his job. His two latest books are:
    The Complete Infidels' Guide to Iran. Regnery Press. July 11, 2016. p. 256. ISBN 978-1621575160.
    The Complete Infidel's Guide to ISIS, Regnery Publ., Aug. 2015, ISBN 978-1-62157-453-8.

    As of 2014 he was being paid even more at 178 + 22 thousands.

    So why are you talking as if homie is living in the ghetto, ducking ‘laaau akbaar’ drive byes? He’s obviously got some good compensation in this world for his – ahem – work. Zionist paymasters bring the bling!

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Clyde
    Why are you complaining about Robert Spencer’s compensation? What the hell do you care? Like I said, Spencer does a great job exposing Islam and Islamic Jihad, so more power to him. I could care less if Jews, Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, and Hindus are paying him via their donations to the David Horowitz Freedom Foundation.

    How amusing that Talah the Muslim peacenik of the phony baloney inner Jihad despises Robert Spencer. He is against the wacko Muslim extremists same as you. He is on the same side as you. You can donate money to the David Horowitz Freedom Foundation and request that it goes to support Spencer's anti-Jihad efforts.

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  152. Andrei Martyanov [AKA "SmoothieX12"] says: • Website
    @Talha

    it is a universal benchmark
     
    So you opine...

    Islam doesn’t have Hellenic and Roman root
     
    No it doesn't, but it has a very legitimate claim to preserving the Hellenistic legacy on its own terms. It is irrelevant to us if some anonymous person on the internet refuses to recognize that.

    Islam doesn’t even touch the feet of European culture in music, literature, visuals and ideas.
     
    First off, Islam is a religion - it is shared by a multitude of people; some of whom live in mud huts to this day and some of whom were building towers while a good portion of Europe was in mud huts. If you can't appreciate the poetry of Jaami, Saadi, Rumi, Attar (ra) or the aphorisms of Ibn Ata-illah (ra) or Imam Haddad (ra) that's your loss. Likewise if you can't appreciate the architecture of any of the grand mosques of the Muslim world - I can easily appreciate the marvelous Gothic cathedrals. Sorry, not looking to be vindicated by you or Huntington.

    is it possible to modernize without westernizing oneself
     
    Wrong question...define modernize and westernize first, then we can speak intelligently. But if one takes it on face value; "is it worth modernizing if it requires westernizing"? In the absolute degree of course...

    Peace.

    So you opine…

    Well, there are numerous universally accepted metrics, including from UN, which do measure the degree of achievements. It is not my personal opinion, in the end, feel free to visit even CIA’s World Factbook and see for yourself what factors are taken in consideration by this and very many other intelligence and analytical organizations. This is just one of many examples. Obviously, such POS index as HDI (Human Development Index) is also a metric, however lousy, and does exist. But in the end, the fact that Islamic World translates in 10 years fewer books than Spain does in 1 is also a metric.

    No it doesn’t, but it has a very legitimate claim to preserving the Hellenistic legacy on its own terms.

    Ahem, this is really funny statement. On what terms? Al Mamun tried it, using it, didn’t work out in the end. What can possibly be common between Al Ghazali and Plato, I have no idea.

    First off, Islam is a religion – it is shared by a multitude of people; some of whom live in mud huts to this day and some of whom were building towers while a good portion of Europe was in mud huts

    Islam is Ummah and it is a civilization. Obviously it is not a monolith but civilization “is a culture writ large” (Roger Scruton) and a culture is a commonality of the behavioral matrix. In Islam this matrix is formed by Islam’s teachings, in Christianity–it is Christian tradition and so on.

    If you can’t appreciate the poetry of Jaami, Saadi, Rumi, Attar (ra) or the aphorisms of Ibn Ata-illah (ra) or Imam Haddad (ra) that’s your loss

    I’ll give you that, this could be the case. Yet, Omar Khayyam speaks to people globally, but he he could hardly be called a good Muslim.

    Wrong question…define modernize and westernize first, then we can speak intelligently.

    I”ll answer with the quote from some backwater non-writer and non-philosopher known as Leo Tolstoy. “A betterment of human condition”–that is the definition and I will abstain here from metaphysical. Factoring out the issue of war which IS a part of human nature (it is just that West due to its advancement made the war an industrial affair literally and in scale), one can not ignore the sum of all things that if not for the West we wouldn’t have today antibiotics, TV, radio, MRI machines, air travel, satellites, internet, increasing life expectancy and on, and on, and on–all what can only be defined as “Betterment of human condition”. West has a lot to atone for but it is this northern civilization where these very Islamic people who, for some reason, penetrate the borders of this Christendom, from Russia’s underbelly (Russia is no.2 global destination for immigration after US) to Germany and Sweden, and have no regard for their “wonderful” Islamic culture. Somehow they define their interests in purely materialistic way. They are attracted to those places where this “betterment” is born. Hm, I wonder why? They want Sharia but only when it is financed by the welfare departments. Well, that is a separate issue and I do not argue, in fact, state that West Europe is mentally ill and I am not sure will have enough time to recover. But that is an afterthought.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha

    On what terms?
     
    On terms with divine revelation:
    "Much of the classical Greek tradition that persisted was unaccpetable to Islam: the Greek language, humanistic values, and religion were all rejected. Even hellenic rarionalism was a significant influence on the thought of only a 'small and isolated band' of Islamic scholars. Yet, Professor Peters concludes, "the hllenic rsidue in medieval Islamic society remains considerable and impressive." It was essentially in the fields of technical and scientific learning that Islam accepted the legacy of hellenism: medicine, mathematics and astronomy showed the greatest influence...What is more, the part of the classical tradition that was accepted played a configurative role within Islam. Not merely decorative or legitimizing, it resulted in new productts when combined with the intellectual currents of Islam itself."
    PAths from Ancient Greece

    He forgot physics and logic (logic [rooted in Hellenic Greek works] is absolutely essential for any Muslim scholar in training).

    What can possibly be common between Al Ghazali and Plato, I have no idea.
     
    We're talking Aristotle and Plato...
    "Al-Ghazâlî understood the importance of falsafa and developed a complex response that rejected and condemned some of its teachings, while it also allowed him to accept and apply others. Al-Ghazâlî's critique of twenty positions of falsafa in his Incoherence of the Philosophers (Tahâfut al-falâsifa) is a significant landmark in the history of philosophy as it advances the nominalist critique of Aristotelian science developed later in 14th century Europe. On the Arabic and Muslim side al-Ghazâlî's acceptance of demonstration (apodeixis) led to a much more refined and precise discourse on epistemology and a flowering of Aristotelian logics and metaphysics. With al-Ghazâlî begins the successful introduction of Aristotelianism or rather Avicennism into Muslim theology."
    http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/al-ghazali/

    Omar Khayyam speaks to people globally, but he he could hardly be called a good Muslim
     
    The jury is out on Omar Khayyam, much of what is attributed to him may not be true and many opinions on him also assume a literal interpretation of his words - which is a really, really stupid approach to Sufi poetry:
    The Wine of Wisdom: The Life, Poetry and Philosophy of Omar Khayyam

    “A betterment of human condition”
     
    No doubt that the West has helped achieve this - is anyone even arguing this issue? Muslims go to Hajj on planes invented by (and mostly built by) Europeans - is that even a question? Hats off to them for their amazing achievements in sciences and technology. But that is not their problem right now...as you stated - "I do not argue, in fact, state that West Europe is mentally ill and I am not sure will have enough time to recover".

    The Muslims who do define their interests and achievements in a purely materialist way are bound to act in a predictably materially-focused way. So yeah, welfare, crime, etc. This is a very legitimate criticism of many Muslims. Of course, it would help if the Western countries didn't go out of their way to destabilize countries already on the edge.

    Peace.
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  153. Talha says:
    @Ace
    It wasn't a ‘laau akbaar’ driveby that almost got Lars Hedegaard.

    Maybe you missed that one.

    Then there was the al-Hebdo action. Also up close and personal. Ixnay on the use of internal combustion engine.

    Then there was the attack on Naguib Mahfouz outside his home. A knife inserted in the blasphemer's neck by an informal scholar of and expert on blasphemy. See how you like that, mothertrucker!

    Given the scorecard on Muslim murder, mayhem, and rapine at ReligionofPeace.com - and the fact that every 7-11 clerk can issue a DIY fatwa if the fancy strikes him - a healthy concern for one's continued existence is hardly unwarranted.

    Hey Ace,

    Acknowledged – the crisis of authority is a very serious and legitimate criticism of the Muslim world right now and one that we need to take full responsibility for. Way too much sanguinary mood in too much of the people – and, of course, Muslims themselves are paying the price disproportionately.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/09/us/isis-threatens-muslim-preachers-who-are-waging-theological-battle-online.html?_r=0

    the fact that every 7-11 clerk can issue a DIY fatwa if the fancy strikes him

    Bingo – you hit the nail on the head there – this is our ‘Reformation’ and it’s going about as smooth as the European one.

    a healthy concern for one’s continued existence is hardly unwarranted

    Have to admit, this is true…sad, but true.

    Peace.

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  154. Marcus says:
    @Talha

    it is a universal benchmark
     
    So you opine...

    Islam doesn’t have Hellenic and Roman root
     
    No it doesn't, but it has a very legitimate claim to preserving the Hellenistic legacy on its own terms. It is irrelevant to us if some anonymous person on the internet refuses to recognize that.

    Islam doesn’t even touch the feet of European culture in music, literature, visuals and ideas.
     
    First off, Islam is a religion - it is shared by a multitude of people; some of whom live in mud huts to this day and some of whom were building towers while a good portion of Europe was in mud huts. If you can't appreciate the poetry of Jaami, Saadi, Rumi, Attar (ra) or the aphorisms of Ibn Ata-illah (ra) or Imam Haddad (ra) that's your loss. Likewise if you can't appreciate the architecture of any of the grand mosques of the Muslim world - I can easily appreciate the marvelous Gothic cathedrals. Sorry, not looking to be vindicated by you or Huntington.

    is it possible to modernize without westernizing oneself
     
    Wrong question...define modernize and westernize first, then we can speak intelligently. But if one takes it on face value; "is it worth modernizing if it requires westernizing"? In the absolute degree of course...

    Peace.

    You might be interested to know that Omar Khayyam was quite popular in the English-speaking world after Edward FitzGerald’s translation was published in the late 19th century, Rumi became widely known here around the 1920s and 30s. It’s sad that modern academics decry “Orientalism,” when the Orientalists are most responsible for bringing the region’s heritage to the attention of its own people, not just Westerners; this is especially true in regards to the pre-Mohammedan past, which is regarded as an era of blackness jahiliyya by most orthodox Muslims. Regarding culture in Muslim history, I think this is a good summation

    Here too, we should distinguish between what Islam enjoins and what people who happen to be Muslims do. Thus, he says that Muslims contributed to Indian music. I am quite illiterate on art history, but I’ll take his word for it. However, if they did, they did it is spite of Islam, and not because of it. Mohammed closed his ears not to hear the music, and orthodox rulers like Aurangzeb and Ayatollah Khomeini issued measures against it. Likewise, the Moghul school of painting shows that human beings are inexorably fond of visual art, but does not disprove that Islam frowns on it.

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    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey Marcus,

    as an era of blackness jahiliyya by most orthodox Muslims.
     
    You'd be surprised...the pre-Islamic poets like Labid, Imrul-Qays, etc. have some of their works memorized by Orthodox scholars to this day. They are essential for the codification of lexical definitions and grammatical usage much as Shakespeare is with English. Remember - all of this was preserved by the Muslims themselves...they carried the only narrative out of the sands of the Hijaz. If they had wanted it banned, they could have done so.
    "The Arabic poetry of pre-Islamic Arabia was regarded for centuries afterward as the standard model for all Islamic poetic achievement, and it directly influenced literary forms in many non-Arab literatures."
    https://www.britannica.com/topic/Islamic-arts

    And yes, as far as music is concerned, musical instruments were shunned, but the Muslims worldwide composed quite a bit of it - but a lot of it was about Allah and the Prophet (pbuh) anyway. The nasheed (acapella) tradition continues to this day. And yes images of beings with souls were shunned as well, but the vast majority of Islamic art didn't need to resort to images. Muslims embellished anything they came across; mosque walls, tapestries, shields, swords, etc. with little resort for human images.
    http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/maml/hd_maml.htm

    Peace.
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  155. Sam Shama says:
    @Talha

    That’s just your Ahmadiyya/Sufi interpretation.
     
    No, your opinion coincides with Spencer and Daesh. Bring me a legitimate scholar (Bayhaqi, Daraqutni, Ibn Hajar [ra]) that claims your interpretation and I'll take you seriously. Secondly, I'm quite a Sunni - Ahmadiyya aren't Muslim.

    Muhammad and his four Caliph successors reveled in deploying terrorism
     
    Really??? You are full of opinions. The first Muslims captured a multitude of massive ancient capitals: Ctesiphon, Jerusalem, Alexandria, Damascus, etc. All captured through terms of surrender (there was no rape and pillage) - again, they foolishly met the Muslims out in pitched battle and thus left their towns without a legitimate garrison. The later Muslims, especially the Turkic ones did revel in plunder, unfortunately, but the good thing is they don't set the standards for us from a juristic perspective anymore than Ivan the Terrible or the Spanish Inquisition does for Christians.

    This is how they got their rocks off.
     
    How can anybody doubt your objectivity in these matters??? Heavens to mergatroid!

    And of course the Prophet (pbuh) set the best example in the conquest of Makkah - captured in surprise, without a fight and general population granted amnesty. The horror...the horror...

    You are like a broken record at this point - cite your sources - other than Darth Spencer.

    Peace.

    Ahmadiyya aren’t Muslim

    Hey Talha,
    Sorry to push in here bro. Is it true that Ahmadiyya’s are not considered muslim?

    Clyde,
    I cannot stress emphatically enough how insidious Spencer’s views are. His brand of Christian supremacy and philo-semitism are the last things this country, and more narrowly, Jews, need; being entirely based on vilifying Islam. He is a purveyor of negatives; and that’s a game easily played on every religion.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Marcus
    It's been shown that Jews still fear White Christians more than Muslims, and this is a very visceral fear, so he's going to have a hard time persuading Jews.
    , @Clyde

    Hey Talha,
    Sorry to push in here bro. Is it true that Ahmadiyya’s are not considered muslim?
     
    They are Muslim but fundamentalist Muslim loonies are always gunning for them and will kill them given the opportunity.
    Robert Spencer is a great man who stands against Jihadist Islam. You don't know what the f you are talking about. You are just spinning words.
    , @Sam Shama
    Forgot to add: Spencer's liason with that revolting termagant Pamela Gellar further elevate both in the rogues gallery of religious opportunists.
    , @Talha
    Hey Sam,

    Yeah - that's not a fringe (or extreme) position actually. It's pretty much down the line - even through al-Azhar, which is very careful about this. There are limits to heterodoxy - claiming a messenger came after the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) disqualifies anyone with that belief (or stating something like Moses [pbuh] was not a prophet, etc.). Funny thing is, in praxis they are straight-up Hanafi school - weird...

    Note, they are not considered apostates though, maybe the first generation was, but their children are simply born into a religion that is not Islam.

    Now that is all with the understanding of the popular original belief of the Ahmadiyyah that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was a new messenger or prophet. I am sure many of those that are called Ahmadiyyah do not believe that specific point or even know about that belief in which case they are likely normal Muslims. Belief is an individual state and cannot be determined on a group level.

    Here is a good read on the matter...
    https://sandala.org/sticks-and-drones-may-break-our-bones-but-fitna-really-hurts-us/

    Peace.

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  156. Marcus says:
    @Sam Shama

    Ahmadiyya aren’t Muslim
     
    Hey Talha,
    Sorry to push in here bro. Is it true that Ahmadiyya's are not considered muslim?

    Clyde,
    I cannot stress emphatically enough how insidious Spencer's views are. His brand of Christian supremacy and philo-semitism are the last things this country, and more narrowly, Jews, need; being entirely based on vilifying Islam. He is a purveyor of negatives; and that's a game easily played on every religion.

    It’s been shown that Jews still fear White Christians more than Muslims, and this is a very visceral fear, so he’s going to have a hard time persuading Jews.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    You may be right. However, I'd base it on the fact that Jews are overwhelmingly liberal, and for whatever reasons of history, and an argumentation based culture, understand the dangers posed by people like Spencer and Pamela Gellar.

    Anders Brevik, the Oslo mass murderer, in his manifesto https://www.washingtonpost.com/r/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2011/07/24/National-Politics/Graphics/2083+-+A+European+Declaration+of+Independence.pdf

    quoted extensively from the writings of European and American bloggers — including Robert Spencer and Pamela Geller — who promote a conspiratorial anti-Muslim agenda under the pretext of fighting radical Islam. Because of the reach of the Internet, these ideas float freely across borders and are reinforced by like-minded bigots.
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  157. Talha says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    So you opine…
     
    Well, there are numerous universally accepted metrics, including from UN, which do measure the degree of achievements. It is not my personal opinion, in the end, feel free to visit even CIA's World Factbook and see for yourself what factors are taken in consideration by this and very many other intelligence and analytical organizations. This is just one of many examples. Obviously, such POS index as HDI (Human Development Index) is also a metric, however lousy, and does exist. But in the end, the fact that Islamic World translates in 10 years fewer books than Spain does in 1 is also a metric.

    No it doesn’t, but it has a very legitimate claim to preserving the Hellenistic legacy on its own terms.
     
    Ahem, this is really funny statement. On what terms? Al Mamun tried it, using it, didn't work out in the end. What can possibly be common between Al Ghazali and Plato, I have no idea.

    First off, Islam is a religion – it is shared by a multitude of people; some of whom live in mud huts to this day and some of whom were building towers while a good portion of Europe was in mud huts
     
    Islam is Ummah and it is a civilization. Obviously it is not a monolith but civilization "is a culture writ large" (Roger Scruton) and a culture is a commonality of the behavioral matrix. In Islam this matrix is formed by Islam's teachings, in Christianity--it is Christian tradition and so on.

    If you can’t appreciate the poetry of Jaami, Saadi, Rumi, Attar (ra) or the aphorisms of Ibn Ata-illah (ra) or Imam Haddad (ra) that’s your loss
     
    I'll give you that, this could be the case. Yet, Omar Khayyam speaks to people globally, but he he could hardly be called a good Muslim.

    Wrong question…define modernize and westernize first, then we can speak intelligently.
     
    I''ll answer with the quote from some backwater non-writer and non-philosopher known as Leo Tolstoy. "A betterment of human condition"--that is the definition and I will abstain here from metaphysical. Factoring out the issue of war which IS a part of human nature (it is just that West due to its advancement made the war an industrial affair literally and in scale), one can not ignore the sum of all things that if not for the West we wouldn't have today antibiotics, TV, radio, MRI machines, air travel, satellites, internet, increasing life expectancy and on, and on, and on--all what can only be defined as "Betterment of human condition". West has a lot to atone for but it is this northern civilization where these very Islamic people who, for some reason, penetrate the borders of this Christendom, from Russia's underbelly (Russia is no.2 global destination for immigration after US) to Germany and Sweden, and have no regard for their "wonderful" Islamic culture. Somehow they define their interests in purely materialistic way. They are attracted to those places where this "betterment" is born. Hm, I wonder why? They want Sharia but only when it is financed by the welfare departments. Well, that is a separate issue and I do not argue, in fact, state that West Europe is mentally ill and I am not sure will have enough time to recover. But that is an afterthought.

    On what terms?

    On terms with divine revelation:
    “Much of the classical Greek tradition that persisted was unaccpetable to Islam: the Greek language, humanistic values, and religion were all rejected. Even hellenic rarionalism was a significant influence on the thought of only a ‘small and isolated band’ of Islamic scholars. Yet, Professor Peters concludes, “the hllenic rsidue in medieval Islamic society remains considerable and impressive.” It was essentially in the fields of technical and scientific learning that Islam accepted the legacy of hellenism: medicine, mathematics and astronomy showed the greatest influence…What is more, the part of the classical tradition that was accepted played a configurative role within Islam. Not merely decorative or legitimizing, it resulted in new productts when combined with the intellectual currents of Islam itself.”
    PAths from Ancient Greece

    He forgot physics and logic (logic [rooted in Hellenic Greek works] is absolutely essential for any Muslim scholar in training).

    What can possibly be common between Al Ghazali and Plato, I have no idea.

    We’re talking Aristotle and Plato…
    “Al-Ghazâlî understood the importance of falsafa and developed a complex response that rejected and condemned some of its teachings, while it also allowed him to accept and apply others. Al-Ghazâlî’s critique of twenty positions of falsafa in his Incoherence of the Philosophers (Tahâfut al-falâsifa) is a significant landmark in the history of philosophy as it advances the nominalist critique of Aristotelian science developed later in 14th century Europe. On the Arabic and Muslim side al-Ghazâlî’s acceptance of demonstration (apodeixis) led to a much more refined and precise discourse on epistemology and a flowering of Aristotelian logics and metaphysics. With al-Ghazâlî begins the successful introduction of Aristotelianism or rather Avicennism into Muslim theology.”

    http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/al-ghazali/

    Omar Khayyam speaks to people globally, but he he could hardly be called a good Muslim

    The jury is out on Omar Khayyam, much of what is attributed to him may not be true and many opinions on him also assume a literal interpretation of his words – which is a really, really stupid approach to Sufi poetry:
    The Wine of Wisdom: The Life, Poetry and Philosophy of Omar Khayyam

    “A betterment of human condition”

    No doubt that the West has helped achieve this – is anyone even arguing this issue? Muslims go to Hajj on planes invented by (and mostly built by) Europeans – is that even a question? Hats off to them for their amazing achievements in sciences and technology. But that is not their problem right now…as you stated – “I do not argue, in fact, state that West Europe is mentally ill and I am not sure will have enough time to recover”.

    The Muslims who do define their interests and achievements in a purely materialist way are bound to act in a predictably materially-focused way. So yeah, welfare, crime, etc. This is a very legitimate criticism of many Muslims. Of course, it would help if the Western countries didn’t go out of their way to destabilize countries already on the edge.

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    Of course, it would help if the Western countries didn’t go out of their way to destabilize countries already on the edge.
     
    Here, I agree with you completely. But that is as far as our agreement goes. Islam and Jihad has a very long and "fruitful" history, which lasts to this day and if, for example, Russian cosmism of Fyodorov ( which is falsafa) ended with launching a human into space, for some reason, most of those "spiritual" struggles of Muslims end up with violence, rape and further mutations of Islam which each time are presented as non-representative of it, while in reality Islam sanctions it, in fact, very often mandates.
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  158. Clyde says:
    @Clyde
    Robert Spencer deserves good compensation for exposing Jihadist Islam. As of 2014 he was being paid even more at 178 + 22 thousands. He is a very busy man who travels quite a bit as part of his job. His two latest books are:
    The Complete Infidels' Guide to Iran. Regnery Press. July 11, 2016. p. 256. ISBN 978-1621575160.
    The Complete Infidel's Guide to ISIS, Regnery Publ., Aug. 2015, ISBN 978-1-62157-453-8.

    Why are you complaining about Robert Spencer’s compensation? What the hell do you care? Like I said, Spencer does a great job exposing Islam and Islamic Jihad, so more power to him. I could care less if Jews, Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, and Hindus are paying him via their donations to the David Horowitz Freedom Foundation.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art

    Why are you complaining about Robert Spencer’s compensation? What the hell do you care? Like I said, Spencer does a great job exposing Islam and Islamic Jihad, so more power to him.
     
    Clyde,

    The Shama Jews fear anybody that pumps fear and hate into the masses, because facts being what they are, eventually that fear and hate has to lead to Jews.

    Shama was well schooled in the arts of hate from a very young age. As a boy he was terrorized by his Big Jew culture. The poor boy was traumatized into fearing and hating all of humanity. He is now someone who is permanently separated from humanity, and a thoughtless Zionist zombie fighting a rearguard action, doing what he can to maintain the Zionist enterprise.

    His conscious mind knows that Zionism is very wrong – but his terrorized subconscious mind overrides any thought of really breaking with Zionism.

    p.s. He probably subjected his own children to the same terror. How sad. So the problem just goes on and on. His children can not join humanity in peace. Double sad.

    Art
    , @KA
    1 Geller and Spencer’s work actually shaped Breivik’s ideas, Walt explains -

    http://mondoweiss.net/2011/07/geller-and-spencers-work-actually-shaped-breiviks-ideas-walt-explains/#sthash.00Yy4NvR.dpuf


    Jewish Communal Fund, a mainstream philanthropic fund that describes itself as “dedicated to the welfare and security of the Jewish community at home and abroad,” has funded Geller’s work. JCF’s annual tax filings show contributions of $30,000 in the 2012 tax year and $70,000 in the 2013 tax year, the last tax year for which filings are available, directed to Geller’s AFDI [American Freedom Defense Initiative].

    - http://mondoweiss.net/2015/11/jewish-communal-islamophobia/#sthash.OHTNvqLN.dpuf


    The Clarion Fund, an offshoot of the Jewish Orthodox fundamentalist Aish HaTorah, gained notoriety for its distribution of the film “Obsession: Radical Islam’s War Against the West” to 28 million swing state voters before the 2008 presidential election between then-Sen. Barack Obama, an Illinois Democrat, and Sen. John McCain, a Republican in Arizona. The film’s central thesis was that fundamentalist Islam is as bad as, if not worse than, Nazism. -

    http://mondoweiss.net/2015/11/jewish-communal-islamophobia/#sthash.OHTNvqLN.dpuf

    She ( Geller) has used her celebrity, boosted by Fox News (a principal player in the Islamophobia industry), to create cross-continental activist networks against Islam. Robert Spencer, Geller’s partner in crime, is also a focus of Lean’s. “People such as Robert Spencer, Daniel Pipes, or Martin Kramer, all online Islamophobes, spread each others’ postings and write-ups to their own audience,” writes Lean. “With each new click of the mouse, the story grows.”

    -http://mondoweiss.net/2012/10/an-industry-built-on-hate-how-the-right-wing-successfully-brought-anti-muslim-bigotry-into-the-american-mainstream/#sthash.OC92gYF1.dpuf


    But Spencer has never studied Islam. He holds a master’s degree in religious studies related to early Christianity from the University of North Carolina.

    - http://mondoweiss.net/2012/09/fraudsters-new-report-highlights-how-islamophobes-have-no-expertise-in-the-religion-they-claim-to-know/#sthash.hWZ36en8.dpuf

    Spencer coauthored book with Geller,hates Obama's support for Palestinian state .


    * Spencer publishes a book entitled Stealth Jihad: How Radical Islam is Subverting America without Guns or Bombs in 2008.

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/08/24/islamophobia-in-america/


    Besides providing the initial energy for the Islamophobic crusade, conservative elements from within the pro-Israel lobby bankrolled the network’s apparatus, enabling it to influence the national debate. One philanthropist in particular has provided the beneficence to propel the campaign ahead. He is a little-known Los Angeles-area software security entrepreneur named Aubrey Chernick, who operates out of a security consulting firm blandly named the National Center for Crisis and Continuity Coordination. A former trustee of the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, which has served as a think tank for the American Israeli Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), a frontline lobbying group for Israel, Chernick is said to be worth $750 million.


    Through the Fairbrook Foundation, a private entity he and his wife Joyce control, Chernick has provided funding to groups ranging from the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) and CAMERA, a right-wing, pro-Israel, media-watchdog outfit, to violent Israeli settlers living on Palestinian lands and figures like the pseudo-academic author Robert Spencer, who is largely responsible for popularizing conspiracy theories about the coming conquest of the West by Muslim fanatics seeking to establish a worldwide caliphate.


    According to the website Politico, almost $1 million in donations from Chernick has been steered to Spencer’s Jihad Watch group through David Horowitz’s Freedom Center.

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2010/12/20/the-great-fear-2/
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  159. Clyde says:
    @Sam Shama

    Ahmadiyya aren’t Muslim
     
    Hey Talha,
    Sorry to push in here bro. Is it true that Ahmadiyya's are not considered muslim?

    Clyde,
    I cannot stress emphatically enough how insidious Spencer's views are. His brand of Christian supremacy and philo-semitism are the last things this country, and more narrowly, Jews, need; being entirely based on vilifying Islam. He is a purveyor of negatives; and that's a game easily played on every religion.

    Hey Talha,
    Sorry to push in here bro. Is it true that Ahmadiyya’s are not considered muslim?

    They are Muslim but fundamentalist Muslim loonies are always gunning for them and will kill them given the opportunity.
    Robert Spencer is a great man who stands against Jihadist Islam. You don’t know what the f you are talking about. You are just spinning words.

    Read More
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  160. Sam Shama says:
    @Sam Shama

    Ahmadiyya aren’t Muslim
     
    Hey Talha,
    Sorry to push in here bro. Is it true that Ahmadiyya's are not considered muslim?

    Clyde,
    I cannot stress emphatically enough how insidious Spencer's views are. His brand of Christian supremacy and philo-semitism are the last things this country, and more narrowly, Jews, need; being entirely based on vilifying Islam. He is a purveyor of negatives; and that's a game easily played on every religion.

    Forgot to add: Spencer’s liason with that revolting termagant Pamela Gellar further elevate both in the rogues gallery of religious opportunists.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
    Spencer and Geller ARE Israel's shills, there is no doubt about it and as such their approach must be questioned. But Robert, to his credit, if my memory doesn't fail me, was openly opposed to the invasion of Iraq. But here is another facet of this whole problem with Islam: none other than Irina Yarovaya, the chair of State Duma's Security and Anti-Corruption Committee, who always extolled Islam's contribution to Russian culture (in reality contribution was not by Islam but by thoroughly Russified Muslims) was publicly, last year, on Russia's most popular talk show--The Evening With Vladimir Solovyov--in a front of tens of millions of viewers, forced to squeeze out of herself that, and I quote: "Yes, we do have problems not just with terrorism but with Islam". Believe me, this coming from, however politically prosti ...ahem opportunistic, former uber-liberal from Yabloko Party is worth several Robert Spencer's books. Muslims do a helluva job themselves to demonstrate a real Islam's face and with 80+ % of them thinking that Sharia must be enforced and with other (from the top of my head) 30 to 40% thinking that it is OK to murder for apostasy and "offending" Quran and prophet. Oh boy, we are talking about hundreds of millions of people who would find it totally OK to rape German or Swedish women, especially if their euro-men are sexually confused.
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  161. Andrei Martyanov [AKA "SmoothieX12"] says: • Website
    @Talha

    On what terms?
     
    On terms with divine revelation:
    "Much of the classical Greek tradition that persisted was unaccpetable to Islam: the Greek language, humanistic values, and religion were all rejected. Even hellenic rarionalism was a significant influence on the thought of only a 'small and isolated band' of Islamic scholars. Yet, Professor Peters concludes, "the hllenic rsidue in medieval Islamic society remains considerable and impressive." It was essentially in the fields of technical and scientific learning that Islam accepted the legacy of hellenism: medicine, mathematics and astronomy showed the greatest influence...What is more, the part of the classical tradition that was accepted played a configurative role within Islam. Not merely decorative or legitimizing, it resulted in new productts when combined with the intellectual currents of Islam itself."
    PAths from Ancient Greece

    He forgot physics and logic (logic [rooted in Hellenic Greek works] is absolutely essential for any Muslim scholar in training).

    What can possibly be common between Al Ghazali and Plato, I have no idea.
     
    We're talking Aristotle and Plato...
    "Al-Ghazâlî understood the importance of falsafa and developed a complex response that rejected and condemned some of its teachings, while it also allowed him to accept and apply others. Al-Ghazâlî's critique of twenty positions of falsafa in his Incoherence of the Philosophers (Tahâfut al-falâsifa) is a significant landmark in the history of philosophy as it advances the nominalist critique of Aristotelian science developed later in 14th century Europe. On the Arabic and Muslim side al-Ghazâlî's acceptance of demonstration (apodeixis) led to a much more refined and precise discourse on epistemology and a flowering of Aristotelian logics and metaphysics. With al-Ghazâlî begins the successful introduction of Aristotelianism or rather Avicennism into Muslim theology."
    http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/al-ghazali/

    Omar Khayyam speaks to people globally, but he he could hardly be called a good Muslim
     
    The jury is out on Omar Khayyam, much of what is attributed to him may not be true and many opinions on him also assume a literal interpretation of his words - which is a really, really stupid approach to Sufi poetry:
    The Wine of Wisdom: The Life, Poetry and Philosophy of Omar Khayyam

    “A betterment of human condition”
     
    No doubt that the West has helped achieve this - is anyone even arguing this issue? Muslims go to Hajj on planes invented by (and mostly built by) Europeans - is that even a question? Hats off to them for their amazing achievements in sciences and technology. But that is not their problem right now...as you stated - "I do not argue, in fact, state that West Europe is mentally ill and I am not sure will have enough time to recover".

    The Muslims who do define their interests and achievements in a purely materialist way are bound to act in a predictably materially-focused way. So yeah, welfare, crime, etc. This is a very legitimate criticism of many Muslims. Of course, it would help if the Western countries didn't go out of their way to destabilize countries already on the edge.

    Peace.

    Of course, it would help if the Western countries didn’t go out of their way to destabilize countries already on the edge.

    Here, I agree with you completely. But that is as far as our agreement goes. Islam and Jihad has a very long and “fruitful” history, which lasts to this day and if, for example, Russian cosmism of Fyodorov ( which is falsafa) ended with launching a human into space, for some reason, most of those “spiritual” struggles of Muslims end up with violence, rape and further mutations of Islam which each time are presented as non-representative of it, while in reality Islam sanctions it, in fact, very often mandates.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha

    further mutations of Islam which each time are presented as non-representative of it
     
    Ahem - a Christian is telling us about religious splintering. LOL!

    Bro, a Muslim holds the keys to the holiest of Christian churches because Christian monks get into fist fights:
    http://www.ibtimes.com/who-guards-most-sacred-site-christendom-two-muslims-1161517

    We'll get through this inshaAllah - this is nothing compared to what happened in the Thirty Years War.


    while in reality Islam sanctions it, in fact, very often mandates
     
    Sure, according to you, Clyde and Spencer and - wait for it - Daesh!! Who to believe? You guys or the scholars having studied this for the entire lives and paying the price at the hands of extremists for denouncing them? Hmmmm...
    http://www.voanews.com/a/anti-extremist-scholar-escapes-deadly-attack-in-bangladesh/3408946.html

    Basically your entire argument boils down to; Islam is really bad, because look at Daesh and man - they are the true followers of Islam...it's a familiar - if old - tune...keep singing it.

    Peace.
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  162. @KenH
    My faith in Trump regarding Israel and foreign policy is not implicit given that his entourage his largely Jewish who I assume have some loyalty to Israel. So I think we'll get America sort of first with Trump although if Izzy protests or if Ivanka whispers in daddy's ear to be kinder to them we could be back to square one. If nothing else Israel has innumerable proxies in the U.S. Congress and in the media in case Trump strays too far off the reservation (i.e., has a foreign policy that is too fair, commonsensical and pro-American).

    FOX News is almost an extension of the Likud party.

    I agree that when it comes to Trump’s true feelings or intentions toward Israel, he represents a pig in a poke. Up to now, about the only thing anyone could deduce from the situation is that Israel has apparently not been successful in coming with anything with which to blackmail him into total submission.

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  163. Talha says:
    @Sam Shama

    Ahmadiyya aren’t Muslim
     
    Hey Talha,
    Sorry to push in here bro. Is it true that Ahmadiyya's are not considered muslim?

    Clyde,
    I cannot stress emphatically enough how insidious Spencer's views are. His brand of Christian supremacy and philo-semitism are the last things this country, and more narrowly, Jews, need; being entirely based on vilifying Islam. He is a purveyor of negatives; and that's a game easily played on every religion.

    Hey Sam,

    Yeah – that’s not a fringe (or extreme) position actually. It’s pretty much down the line – even through al-Azhar, which is very careful about this. There are limits to heterodoxy – claiming a messenger came after the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) disqualifies anyone with that belief (or stating something like Moses [pbuh] was not a prophet, etc.). Funny thing is, in praxis they are straight-up Hanafi school – weird…

    Note, they are not considered apostates though, maybe the first generation was, but their children are simply born into a religion that is not Islam.

    Now that is all with the understanding of the popular original belief of the Ahmadiyyah that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was a new messenger or prophet. I am sure many of those that are called Ahmadiyyah do not believe that specific point or even know about that belief in which case they are likely normal Muslims. Belief is an individual state and cannot be determined on a group level.

    Here is a good read on the matter…

    https://sandala.org/sticks-and-drones-may-break-our-bones-but-fitna-really-hurts-us/

    Peace.

    Read More
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  164. Andrei Martyanov [AKA "SmoothieX12"] says: • Website
    @Sam Shama
    Forgot to add: Spencer's liason with that revolting termagant Pamela Gellar further elevate both in the rogues gallery of religious opportunists.

    Spencer and Geller ARE Israel’s shills, there is no doubt about it and as such their approach must be questioned. But Robert, to his credit, if my memory doesn’t fail me, was openly opposed to the invasion of Iraq. But here is another facet of this whole problem with Islam: none other than Irina Yarovaya, the chair of State Duma’s Security and Anti-Corruption Committee, who always extolled Islam’s contribution to Russian culture (in reality contribution was not by Islam but by thoroughly Russified Muslims) was publicly, last year, on Russia’s most popular talk show–The Evening With Vladimir Solovyov–in a front of tens of millions of viewers, forced to squeeze out of herself that, and I quote: “Yes, we do have problems not just with terrorism but with Islam”. Believe me, this coming from, however politically prosti …ahem opportunistic, former uber-liberal from Yabloko Party is worth several Robert Spencer’s books. Muslims do a helluva job themselves to demonstrate a real Islam’s face and with 80+ % of them thinking that Sharia must be enforced and with other (from the top of my head) 30 to 40% thinking that it is OK to murder for apostasy and “offending” Quran and prophet. Oh boy, we are talking about hundreds of millions of people who would find it totally OK to rape German or Swedish women, especially if their euro-men are sexually confused.

    Read More
    • Agree: Marcus
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  165. Talha says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    Of course, it would help if the Western countries didn’t go out of their way to destabilize countries already on the edge.
     
    Here, I agree with you completely. But that is as far as our agreement goes. Islam and Jihad has a very long and "fruitful" history, which lasts to this day and if, for example, Russian cosmism of Fyodorov ( which is falsafa) ended with launching a human into space, for some reason, most of those "spiritual" struggles of Muslims end up with violence, rape and further mutations of Islam which each time are presented as non-representative of it, while in reality Islam sanctions it, in fact, very often mandates.

    further mutations of Islam which each time are presented as non-representative of it

    Ahem – a Christian is telling us about religious splintering. LOL!

    Bro, a Muslim holds the keys to the holiest of Christian churches because Christian monks get into fist fights:

    http://www.ibtimes.com/who-guards-most-sacred-site-christendom-two-muslims-1161517

    We’ll get through this inshaAllah – this is nothing compared to what happened in the Thirty Years War.

    while in reality Islam sanctions it, in fact, very often mandates

    Sure, according to you, Clyde and Spencer and – wait for it – Daesh!! Who to believe? You guys or the scholars having studied this for the entire lives and paying the price at the hands of extremists for denouncing them? Hmmmm…

    http://www.voanews.com/a/anti-extremist-scholar-escapes-deadly-attack-in-bangladesh/3408946.html

    Basically your entire argument boils down to; Islam is really bad, because look at Daesh and man – they are the true followers of Islam…it’s a familiar – if old – tune…keep singing it.

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Marcus
    IS and related groups might be outliers in the entirety of Muslim history, but they routinely cite precedents in Mohammedan sources, see Dabiq. Taslima Nasreen, who had to flee Bangladesh said “What the Muslim world needs is not moderate Muslims but ex-Muslims.” I agree with her.
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  166. Sam Shama says:
    @Marcus
    It's been shown that Jews still fear White Christians more than Muslims, and this is a very visceral fear, so he's going to have a hard time persuading Jews.

    You may be right. However, I’d base it on the fact that Jews are overwhelmingly liberal, and for whatever reasons of history, and an argumentation based culture, understand the dangers posed by people like Spencer and Pamela Gellar.

    Anders Brevik, the Oslo mass murderer, in his manifesto https://www.washingtonpost.com/r/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2011/07/24/National-Politics/Graphics/2083+-+A+European+Declaration+of+Independence.pdf

    quoted extensively from the writings of European and American bloggers — including Robert Spencer and Pamela Geller — who promote a conspiratorial anti-Muslim agenda under the pretext of fighting radical Islam. Because of the reach of the Internet, these ideas float freely across borders and are reinforced by like-minded bigots.

    Read More
    • Replies: @RobinG
    Hi Sam,

    This is carryover from previous thread. It's J-Street kind of stuff, but, having to make a choice I put it on the positive stack.

    http://jewishnews.timesofisrael.com/israeli-figures-ask-diaspora-to-help-end-the-occupation/
    Amongst those making the call are high-ranking ex-officers and envoys, ministers, authors, artists and professors
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  167. Israel always wins America’s presidential elections. I wish I could say that about America.

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    • Agree: Andrei Martyanov
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  168. Andrei Martyanov [AKA "SmoothieX12"] says: • Website

    Basically your entire argument boils down to

    “It is legitimate to judge event by the outcome for it is the soundest criterion”(c) Carl Von Clausewitz, Vom Kriege. This method is also known, much earlier than Vom Kriege was written, from a somewhat ancient history:

    “Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?”

    Matthew 7:16-20King James Version (KJV)

    Ahh, this damn Christian determinism with their haram cause and effect. No wonder Muslims strive to get their hands on those Infidels’ achievements, because they cannot produce those on their own no matter how they try. Then they get frustrated and… we know the rest of the story. I deliberately mentioned here such words as Kondopoga and Sagra.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Sigh...you know, you have some very solid criticisms and then you bring out this straw-man nonsense based on Mr. Reilly totally misunderstanding an issue he has zero expertise in.

    determinism with their haram cause and effect
     
    I studied aqeedah (Islamic creed) under a mufti who was a direct student of the late Damascene scholar Shaykh Adib Kallas (ra) a remarkable theologian who was a master of this science (so I know a bit about what we believe): http://seekershub.org/blog/2009/10/shaykh-adib-kallas-died-today-october-21-2009-one-of-the-foremost-scholars-of-our-times/

    You are bringing out nonsense that Muslims deny observable cause and effect - what the Sunni Orthodox deny is that causality that exists outside the will of God in objects (in and of themselves or by their very nature). Thus, the belief is, while indeed through His omnipotence God creates both the cause and the effect and fuses the two together - through His wisdom He allows it to follow a usual pattern - while being able to break with the pattern at any time. What does this mean in practice? Not much, a Muslim chemist will carry on his work and observing that one chemical compound interacts predictably with another in a measured way, while believing internally that God is the true cause behind everything his eyes see and that He can miraculously suspend normal cause/effect relationship at any moment. Thus a virgin woman can give birth to a male child in Palestine somewhere two centuries ago without recourse to the necessary 'Y' chromosome.

    Note to readers: this is not up for debate, I am merely stating the position to free it from the off-base description insinuated above, feel free to guffaw at it all you want.

    And this is all at the Newtonian level - which is where Ibn Rushd (ra) and the rationalists were operating. Once you get down to the quantum level (I remember my intro to quantum theory in UCLA - blew my mind), all bets are off. Just try assuming a pre-determinant cause and effect - too bad, you are dealing with probabilities of results - nothing is set in stone. Inside the atom, Imam Ghazali (ra) and the Ashari-Maturidis get top billing:
    "Further, they agree that events in the world ate not strictly predictable. Both accept the idea that unexpected, unpredictable things can and do occur. According to Al-Ghazali's explanation, God is omnipotent and involved in the world at every moment and can, therefore, cause anything to happen. The Copenhagen Interpretation of quantum theory says that it is impossible to predict the exact behavior of an object based on physical laws. As a result, while one might expect a lead ball to fall when it is dropped, there is a definite possibility that the ball will rise instead. The independent existence of teal objects is doubted by both al-Ghazali and the Copenhagen Interpretation. "
    Causality Then and Now: Al-Ghazali and Quantum Theory
    http://www.ghazali.org/articles/harding-V10N2-Summer-93.pdf

    "As the theory of the atom, quantum mechanics is perhaps the most successful theory in the history of science. It enables physicists, chemists, and technicians to calculate and predict the outcome of a vast number of experiments and to create new and advanced technology based on the insight into the behavior of atomic objects. But it is also a theory that challenges our imagination. It seems to violate some fundamental principles of classical physics, principles that eventually have become a part of western common sense since the rise of the modern worldview in the Renaissance."
    "Apparently, we are living in a quantum world since everything is constituted by atomic and subatomic particles. Hence classical physics seems merely to be a useful approximation to a world which is quantum mechanical on all scales. Such a view, which many modern physicists support, can be called quantum fundamentalism (Zinkernagel forthcoming). It can be defined as a position containing two components: (1) everything in the Universe is fundamentally of quantum nature (the ontological component); and (2) everything in the Universe is ultimately describable in quantum mechanical terms (the epistemological component)"
    http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/qm-copenhagen/

    Peace.

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  169. Avery says:
    @Talha
    Hey Avery,


    That train left the station a long time ago.
     
    Quite so - there is not a weapon system in the world that will not eventually be aped by someone other than its founders. Best thing for everyone of us to support is a complete nuclear disarmament and a permanent neutral inspections protocol for any nation above a certain industrial standard.

    Peace.

    Yo, Talha:

    {Best thing for everyone of us to support is a complete nuclear disarmament ….}

    Noble thought, except no country which has nukes will agree to get rid of them. And many who don’t are or will be trying to get them.

    After WW2, the world was spared a couple of world wars thanks to nukes. With no nukes, is there any doubt that NATO/US would have invaded or attacked SU?

    China and Japan; India and Pakistan,…. there would be large wars all over the world. There were proxy wars for sure, like Viet Nam. But world wars would be far more destructive.

    Russia will never give up her nukes, because no promise by US to do the same would honored, and Russians know it.

    But the more countries acquire nukes, the more there is a chance of an accidental Extinction Level Event being triggered.
    And the country most responsible for the proliferation of nukes is US.
    Example: North Korea is developing nukes, because it knows US would B52 carpet bomb it to rubble with no nuke deterrent. South Korea has tried many times to approach NK, but Washington has thwarted the efforts every time. Washington needs tension and conflict all over the world to keep shoveling $ trillions into the maw of the MIC beast. Without the perennial “threats”, the overtaxed American taxpayer might start objecting. It’s a great business for the select few who benefit from the sweat of US taxpayer.
    No competition; practically unlimited budgets; massive profits.

    Nevertheless, I agree with you in your response to [Marcus] that {First off, I’m not convinced that we won’t accidentally trigger the apocalypse. } The famous incident with the Soviet sub during the Cuban Missile Crises. Lucky there was that 3rd Soviet officer who happened to be a fleet admiral on board to override the other two, who were going to launch nuke torpedoes. I mean the lives of 10s, maybe 100s of millions people depend on luck? How absurd is that?

    And it is a little disconcerting if what is being published is true: that it took just 2 officers on a Soviet sub to authorize a nuke launch. Hopefully Russian subs require more than 2 to authorize. Had an ex US Navy buddy at one of companies I worked for. He said US Navy subs require 6 to authorize a nuke launch.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Yo Avery,

    I totally understand where you are coming from from a practical perspective. And I certainly hope more safeguards are put in place. It is sad that my own government is likely the biggest obstacle in the way of removing these horrific weapons from history.

    But you know, South Africa gave up her Nuclear weapons voluntarily - so that gives me hope.

    Peace.
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  170. Marcus says:
    @Talha

    further mutations of Islam which each time are presented as non-representative of it
     
    Ahem - a Christian is telling us about religious splintering. LOL!

    Bro, a Muslim holds the keys to the holiest of Christian churches because Christian monks get into fist fights:
    http://www.ibtimes.com/who-guards-most-sacred-site-christendom-two-muslims-1161517

    We'll get through this inshaAllah - this is nothing compared to what happened in the Thirty Years War.


    while in reality Islam sanctions it, in fact, very often mandates
     
    Sure, according to you, Clyde and Spencer and - wait for it - Daesh!! Who to believe? You guys or the scholars having studied this for the entire lives and paying the price at the hands of extremists for denouncing them? Hmmmm...
    http://www.voanews.com/a/anti-extremist-scholar-escapes-deadly-attack-in-bangladesh/3408946.html

    Basically your entire argument boils down to; Islam is really bad, because look at Daesh and man - they are the true followers of Islam...it's a familiar - if old - tune...keep singing it.

    Peace.

    IS and related groups might be outliers in the entirety of Muslim history, but they routinely cite precedents in Mohammedan sources, see Dabiq. Taslima Nasreen, who had to flee Bangladesh said “What the Muslim world needs is not moderate Muslims but ex-Muslims.” I agree with her.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey Marcus,

    Of course they do - the Qarmatis also cited Islamic texts and so did the Khawarij - and they were straight up calling Ali ibn Abi Talib (ra) an apostate! All religions suffer from this recurring problem at various times in their history.

    I don't know much about Ms. Nasreen except this;
    1) there should have been no vigilante threats against her - period
    2) she is 54, how many children does she have? feminism strikes again

    "Apostasy, because propagating your genes is so overrated." - Brought to you by the Apostasy Students Service of Bangladesh

    Peace.
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  171. Clyde says:
    @Talha

    As of 2014 he was being paid even more at 178 + 22 thousands.
     
    So why are you talking as if homie is living in the ghetto, ducking 'laaau akbaar' drive byes? He's obviously got some good compensation in this world for his - ahem - work. Zionist paymasters bring the bling!

    Peace.

    Why are you complaining about Robert Spencer’s compensation? What the hell do you care? Like I said, Spencer does a great job exposing Islam and Islamic Jihad, so more power to him. I could care less if Jews, Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, and Hindus are paying him via their donations to the David Horowitz Freedom Foundation.

    How amusing that Talah the Muslim peacenik of the phony baloney inner Jihad despises Robert Spencer. He is against the wacko Muslim extremists same as you. He is on the same side as you. You can donate money to the David Horowitz Freedom Foundation and request that it goes to support Spencer’s anti-Jihad efforts.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Yeah, wouldn't taking over the West Bank be so much nicer if it was full of peacenik inner-Jihad Muslims. I'm sure Mr. Spencer has my best interests in mind.

    "Islam is really bad - except for the Meccan part - you guys should only practice Meccan Islam." I've heard that before.

    Peace.
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  172. Talha says:
    @Marcus
    You might be interested to know that Omar Khayyam was quite popular in the English-speaking world after Edward FitzGerald's translation was published in the late 19th century, Rumi became widely known here around the 1920s and 30s. It's sad that modern academics decry "Orientalism," when the Orientalists are most responsible for bringing the region's heritage to the attention of its own people, not just Westerners; this is especially true in regards to the pre-Mohammedan past, which is regarded as an era of blackness jahiliyya by most orthodox Muslims. Regarding culture in Muslim history, I think this is a good summation

    Here too, we should distinguish between what Islam enjoins and what people who happen to be Muslims do. Thus, he says that Muslims contributed to Indian music. I am quite illiterate on art history, but I’ll take his word for it. However, if they did, they did it is spite of Islam, and not because of it. Mohammed closed his ears not to hear the music, and orthodox rulers like Aurangzeb and Ayatollah Khomeini issued measures against it. Likewise, the Moghul school of painting shows that human beings are inexorably fond of visual art, but does not disprove that Islam frowns on it.
     

    Hey Marcus,

    as an era of blackness jahiliyya by most orthodox Muslims.

    You’d be surprised…the pre-Islamic poets like Labid, Imrul-Qays, etc. have some of their works memorized by Orthodox scholars to this day. They are essential for the codification of lexical definitions and grammatical usage much as Shakespeare is with English. Remember – all of this was preserved by the Muslims themselves…they carried the only narrative out of the sands of the Hijaz. If they had wanted it banned, they could have done so.
    “The Arabic poetry of pre-Islamic Arabia was regarded for centuries afterward as the standard model for all Islamic poetic achievement, and it directly influenced literary forms in many non-Arab literatures.”

    https://www.britannica.com/topic/Islamic-arts

    And yes, as far as music is concerned, musical instruments were shunned, but the Muslims worldwide composed quite a bit of it – but a lot of it was about Allah and the Prophet (pbuh) anyway. The nasheed (acapella) tradition continues to this day. And yes images of beings with souls were shunned as well, but the vast majority of Islamic art didn’t need to resort to images. Muslims embellished anything they came across; mosque walls, tapestries, shields, swords, etc. with little resort for human images.

    http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/maml/hd_maml.htm

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Marcus
    Yes, the notion that the pre-Islamic Arabs were savages should be put to rest, look at Petra and Mada'in Saleh; well the beduin probably weren't very cultured, but according to Herodotus they had a sense of honor at least. Interestingly, the Byzantine iconoclasm was likely inspired by the Muslims: "if we're losing to them, maybe we should adopt it?" It was a major factor in the drift of eastern and western churches, since the mostly illiterate western population needed biblical-inspired imagery in the Pope's estimation. Think of all the great Orthodox icons and mosaics that were lost, and then the Calvinists and other early Protestants did the same in the West a millennium later.
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  173. Talha says:
    @Avery
    Yo, Talha:

    {Best thing for everyone of us to support is a complete nuclear disarmament ....}

    Noble thought, except no country which has nukes will agree to get rid of them. And many who don't are or will be trying to get them.

    After WW2, the world was spared a couple of world wars thanks to nukes. With no nukes, is there any doubt that NATO/US would have invaded or attacked SU?

    China and Japan; India and Pakistan,.... there would be large wars all over the world. There were proxy wars for sure, like Viet Nam. But world wars would be far more destructive.

    Russia will never give up her nukes, because no promise by US to do the same would honored, and Russians know it.

    But the more countries acquire nukes, the more there is a chance of an accidental Extinction Level Event being triggered.
    And the country most responsible for the proliferation of nukes is US.
    Example: North Korea is developing nukes, because it knows US would B52 carpet bomb it to rubble with no nuke deterrent. South Korea has tried many times to approach NK, but Washington has thwarted the efforts every time. Washington needs tension and conflict all over the world to keep shoveling $ trillions into the maw of the MIC beast. Without the perennial "threats", the overtaxed American taxpayer might start objecting. It's a great business for the select few who benefit from the sweat of US taxpayer.
    No competition; practically unlimited budgets; massive profits.

    Nevertheless, I agree with you in your response to [Marcus] that {First off, I’m not convinced that we won’t accidentally trigger the apocalypse. } The famous incident with the Soviet sub during the Cuban Missile Crises. Lucky there was that 3rd Soviet officer who happened to be a fleet admiral on board to override the other two, who were going to launch nuke torpedoes. I mean the lives of 10s, maybe 100s of millions people depend on luck? How absurd is that?

    And it is a little disconcerting if what is being published is true: that it took just 2 officers on a Soviet sub to authorize a nuke launch. Hopefully Russian subs require more than 2 to authorize. Had an ex US Navy buddy at one of companies I worked for. He said US Navy subs require 6 to authorize a nuke launch.

    Yo Avery,

    I totally understand where you are coming from from a practical perspective. And I certainly hope more safeguards are put in place. It is sad that my own government is likely the biggest obstacle in the way of removing these horrific weapons from history.

    But you know, South Africa gave up her Nuclear weapons voluntarily – so that gives me hope.

    Peace.

    Read More
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  174. Talha says:
    @Marcus
    IS and related groups might be outliers in the entirety of Muslim history, but they routinely cite precedents in Mohammedan sources, see Dabiq. Taslima Nasreen, who had to flee Bangladesh said “What the Muslim world needs is not moderate Muslims but ex-Muslims.” I agree with her.

    Hey Marcus,

    Of course they do – the Qarmatis also cited Islamic texts and so did the Khawarij – and they were straight up calling Ali ibn Abi Talib (ra) an apostate! All religions suffer from this recurring problem at various times in their history.

    I don’t know much about Ms. Nasreen except this;
    1) there should have been no vigilante threats against her – period
    2) she is 54, how many children does she have? feminism strikes again

    “Apostasy, because propagating your genes is so overrated.” – Brought to you by the Apostasy Students Service of Bangladesh

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Marcus
    I believe there were fatwas issued against her, which fits the Muslim tradition going back to Muhammad. I'm not a fan of feminism, but countries like Bangladesh certainly don't need baby booms, a lot of the problems in the Third World are probably due to large populations straining resources and pushing down wages. The Muslims of the Indian subcontinent are heirs to the great traditions of the Dharmic civilizations, maybe they can rediscover these. Like Anwar Shaikh (Pakistani who became a Hindu) said

    The day Muhammad bin Qasim, entered Sindh as a conqueror, must rank as the most ominous, odious and outrageous moment in the history of India, whose proud, pious and powerful traditions have been the torch-bearer of world civilisation. The Indians, used to enjoying the warmth of ahimsa, were stunned by the violence that the Arab raiders displayed in robbing the rich and seducing the indigenous damsels. Yet the irony was that they did all this in the name of the Most Compassionate and Just Allah, who counts these felonies as acts of fairness when they are committed to torture the unbelievers.
     
    http://www.hinduwisdom.info/Islamic_Onslaught.htm
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  175. Marcus says:
    @Talha
    Hey Marcus,

    as an era of blackness jahiliyya by most orthodox Muslims.
     
    You'd be surprised...the pre-Islamic poets like Labid, Imrul-Qays, etc. have some of their works memorized by Orthodox scholars to this day. They are essential for the codification of lexical definitions and grammatical usage much as Shakespeare is with English. Remember - all of this was preserved by the Muslims themselves...they carried the only narrative out of the sands of the Hijaz. If they had wanted it banned, they could have done so.
    "The Arabic poetry of pre-Islamic Arabia was regarded for centuries afterward as the standard model for all Islamic poetic achievement, and it directly influenced literary forms in many non-Arab literatures."
    https://www.britannica.com/topic/Islamic-arts

    And yes, as far as music is concerned, musical instruments were shunned, but the Muslims worldwide composed quite a bit of it - but a lot of it was about Allah and the Prophet (pbuh) anyway. The nasheed (acapella) tradition continues to this day. And yes images of beings with souls were shunned as well, but the vast majority of Islamic art didn't need to resort to images. Muslims embellished anything they came across; mosque walls, tapestries, shields, swords, etc. with little resort for human images.
    http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/maml/hd_maml.htm

    Peace.

    Yes, the notion that the pre-Islamic Arabs were savages should be put to rest, look at Petra and Mada’in Saleh; well the beduin probably weren’t very cultured, but according to Herodotus they had a sense of honor at least. Interestingly, the Byzantine iconoclasm was likely inspired by the Muslims: “if we’re losing to them, maybe we should adopt it?” It was a major factor in the drift of eastern and western churches, since the mostly illiterate western population needed biblical-inspired imagery in the Pope’s estimation. Think of all the great Orthodox icons and mosaics that were lost, and then the Calvinists and other early Protestants did the same in the West a millennium later.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey Marcus,

    We studied this episode in my Byzantine History course and yes, there is evidence that it was inspired by the edict of Caliph Yazid II - which was repealed by his successors:
    http://lingualeo.com/es/jungle/the-iconoclastic-edict-caliph-yazid-ii-ad-721-by-aa-vasiliev-432970#/page/1

    Think of all the great Orthodox icons and mosaics that were lost
     
    Correct and Daesh is carrying out a destruction that lays to waste centuries worth of work of cooperative human endeavor to preserve these things.

    Peace.
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  176. Talha says:
    @Clyde
    Why are you complaining about Robert Spencer’s compensation? What the hell do you care? Like I said, Spencer does a great job exposing Islam and Islamic Jihad, so more power to him. I could care less if Jews, Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, and Hindus are paying him via their donations to the David Horowitz Freedom Foundation.

    How amusing that Talah the Muslim peacenik of the phony baloney inner Jihad despises Robert Spencer. He is against the wacko Muslim extremists same as you. He is on the same side as you. You can donate money to the David Horowitz Freedom Foundation and request that it goes to support Spencer's anti-Jihad efforts.

    Yeah, wouldn’t taking over the West Bank be so much nicer if it was full of peacenik inner-Jihad Muslims. I’m sure Mr. Spencer has my best interests in mind.

    “Islam is really bad – except for the Meccan part – you guys should only practice Meccan Islam.” I’ve heard that before.

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Marcus
    Maybe a more peaceful movement would attract more international support? I'm mostly neutral on the issue: but my guess is suicide bombings and such turn off would-be sympathizers. An Arab Muslim I spoke to said that the repeated defeats of progressive socialist governments by Israel were a huge factor in the rise of fundamentalism in the region.
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  177. Art says:
    @Clyde
    Why are you complaining about Robert Spencer's compensation? What the hell do you care? Like I said, Spencer does a great job exposing Islam and Islamic Jihad, so more power to him. I could care less if Jews, Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, and Hindus are paying him via their donations to the David Horowitz Freedom Foundation.

    Why are you complaining about Robert Spencer’s compensation? What the hell do you care? Like I said, Spencer does a great job exposing Islam and Islamic Jihad, so more power to him.

    Clyde,

    The Shama Jews fear anybody that pumps fear and hate into the masses, because facts being what they are, eventually that fear and hate has to lead to Jews.

    Shama was well schooled in the arts of hate from a very young age. As a boy he was terrorized by his Big Jew culture. The poor boy was traumatized into fearing and hating all of humanity. He is now someone who is permanently separated from humanity, and a thoughtless Zionist zombie fighting a rearguard action, doing what he can to maintain the Zionist enterprise.

    His conscious mind knows that Zionism is very wrong – but his terrorized subconscious mind overrides any thought of really breaking with Zionism.

    p.s. He probably subjected his own children to the same terror. How sad. So the problem just goes on and on. His children can not join humanity in peace. Double sad.

    Art

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  178. Marcus says:
    @Talha
    Hey Marcus,

    Of course they do - the Qarmatis also cited Islamic texts and so did the Khawarij - and they were straight up calling Ali ibn Abi Talib (ra) an apostate! All religions suffer from this recurring problem at various times in their history.

    I don't know much about Ms. Nasreen except this;
    1) there should have been no vigilante threats against her - period
    2) she is 54, how many children does she have? feminism strikes again

    "Apostasy, because propagating your genes is so overrated." - Brought to you by the Apostasy Students Service of Bangladesh

    Peace.

    I believe there were fatwas issued against her, which fits the Muslim tradition going back to Muhammad. I’m not a fan of feminism, but countries like Bangladesh certainly don’t need baby booms, a lot of the problems in the Third World are probably due to large populations straining resources and pushing down wages. The Muslims of the Indian subcontinent are heirs to the great traditions of the Dharmic civilizations, maybe they can rediscover these. Like Anwar Shaikh (Pakistani who became a Hindu) said

    The day Muhammad bin Qasim, entered Sindh as a conqueror, must rank as the most ominous, odious and outrageous moment in the history of India, whose proud, pious and powerful traditions have been the torch-bearer of world civilisation. The Indians, used to enjoying the warmth of ahimsa, were stunned by the violence that the Arab raiders displayed in robbing the rich and seducing the indigenous damsels. Yet the irony was that they did all this in the name of the Most Compassionate and Just Allah, who counts these felonies as acts of fairness when they are committed to torture the unbelievers.

    http://www.hinduwisdom.info/Islamic_Onslaught.htm

    Read More
    • Replies: @Clyde

    The Indians, used to enjoying the warmth of ahimsa, were stunned by the violence that the Arab raiders displayed in robbing the rich and seducing the indigenous damsels. Yet the irony was that they did all this in the name of the Most Compassionate and Just Allah, who counts these felonies as acts of fairness when they are committed to torture the unbelievers.
     
    Vegetarian grazing animals are preyed upon by the lions and other carnivorous predators. The dharmic civilizations you speak of were/are vegetarian or mostly vegetarian. The invading Muslim forces were carnivorous to omnivorous. They were the predators upon the Hindus of India and this is how large parts of India were turned Muslim during wars and battles that lasted a few centuries where 80 million Hindus were killed and numerous Hindu shrines and temples destroyed. 80 million Hindus sounds high. Prolly more like 40 million were killed off, ethnically cleansed for Imperialist Muslim lebensraum.
    Just about all Muslims from India/Pakistan have ancestors who were Hindu. Who were forcibly converted to Islam. Talha has previously stated that this is not the case with his ancestors.
    , @Talha
    Hey Marcus,

    There may have indeed been fatwas against her, but are you saying there was actually a fatwa from a legitimate qualified scholar that stated she could be killed with impunity by anyone - I would have to see this to believe it. Or are you saying the fatwa was calling on the government to stop and/or punish her - this is more likely. You have to keep in mind what fatwas are; they are juristic opinions coming from a body of scholars that fill a quasi-legislative/judicial role in society. Just as in our society, a judge can set down a judgement, but it must be executed by those with executive prerogative/privileges. The connection is explained by Mufti Musa Furber (db), with the example of a fatwa issued for wild-life protection in Indonesia:
    "Indonesia made a splash in 2014 when it issued a wildlife protection fatwa. A fatwa is, by its very nature, a non-binding opinion. A wildlife protection fatwa means nothing if it is not gazetted into legislation and then enforced. And it needs to be proactively enforced in order to be truly preventative – otherwise, it can be shrugged off as a business fine or risk."
    http://musafurber.com/2016/08/27/indonesian-man-arrested-650-pangolins-found-dead-freezers/

    For instance, historically, the Shafi'i scholars were formulating fatwa after fatwa on matters which were simply ignored by the ruling Abbasid authorities in lieu of the fatwas of the Hanafi school which they favored.


    The Muslims of the Indian subcontinent are heirs to the great traditions of the Dharmic civilizations, maybe they can rediscover these.
     
    Correct, much of the meditation, attainment of spiritual states through asceticism and rigor has already been absorbed into Sufi practices as much as can be allowed for. We discussed Imam Biruni (ra) and his balanced approach to viewing and evaluating these Dharmic traditions. This needs to be revived. I don't think many Muslims will convert to Hinduism (even less than any movement from Christianity toward Hinduism), you'll get a rare one here and there. I've personally met Hindu converts to Islam, never met one going the other way.

    Peace.
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  179. Clyde says:
    @Marcus
    I believe there were fatwas issued against her, which fits the Muslim tradition going back to Muhammad. I'm not a fan of feminism, but countries like Bangladesh certainly don't need baby booms, a lot of the problems in the Third World are probably due to large populations straining resources and pushing down wages. The Muslims of the Indian subcontinent are heirs to the great traditions of the Dharmic civilizations, maybe they can rediscover these. Like Anwar Shaikh (Pakistani who became a Hindu) said

    The day Muhammad bin Qasim, entered Sindh as a conqueror, must rank as the most ominous, odious and outrageous moment in the history of India, whose proud, pious and powerful traditions have been the torch-bearer of world civilisation. The Indians, used to enjoying the warmth of ahimsa, were stunned by the violence that the Arab raiders displayed in robbing the rich and seducing the indigenous damsels. Yet the irony was that they did all this in the name of the Most Compassionate and Just Allah, who counts these felonies as acts of fairness when they are committed to torture the unbelievers.
     
    http://www.hinduwisdom.info/Islamic_Onslaught.htm

    The Indians, used to enjoying the warmth of ahimsa, were stunned by the violence that the Arab raiders displayed in robbing the rich and seducing the indigenous damsels. Yet the irony was that they did all this in the name of the Most Compassionate and Just Allah, who counts these felonies as acts of fairness when they are committed to torture the unbelievers.

    Vegetarian grazing animals are preyed upon by the lions and other carnivorous predators. The dharmic civilizations you speak of were/are vegetarian or mostly vegetarian. The invading Muslim forces were carnivorous to omnivorous. They were the predators upon the Hindus of India and this is how large parts of India were turned Muslim during wars and battles that lasted a few centuries where 80 million Hindus were killed and numerous Hindu shrines and temples destroyed. 80 million Hindus sounds high. Prolly more like 40 million were killed off, ethnically cleansed for Imperialist Muslim lebensraum.
    Just about all Muslims from India/Pakistan have ancestors who were Hindu. Who were forcibly converted to Islam. Talha has previously stated that this is not the case with his ancestors.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Marcus
    They were too naive even after previous (though less extensive) invasions. Gandhi had learned nothing after 1200 years. That's not to say none of them fought back, the Marathas reconquered virtually all of the subcontinent from the Mughals before falling to the British: so India is one of the few civilizations to ever throw back the jihadi wave, the others being Spain, Austria and Russia. You have to admire their perseverance considering they faced much larger and more brutal Muslim armies than Europe did for the most part.
    , @Talha
    While there is no doubt a great number of Hindus were killed in the invasions and many temples sacked - when did the Turkic steppe warriors ever play with kid gloves in this regard? There were Hindus involved in the invasions from the beginning:
    T"he position of Hindu generals, soldiers, and scholars at the Ghaznavid court is also significant. Even Mahmud, the iconoclast, had a contingent of Hindu officers and soldiers. He richly rewarded at least one Sanskrit poet, and had Hindu pandits at his court. He also issued coins with Sanskrit inscriptions. The Hindu position seems to have improved greatly in the days of his successor, Masud."
    http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00islamlinks/ikram/part1_02.html

    Alas, you come up with your nonsense again:


    Just about all Muslims from India/Pakistan have ancestors who were Hindu. Who were forcibly converted to Islam.
     
    BS - cite your sources.

    "Even though Islam was often strongly supported by the state, the rapid growth of Muslim population was mainly due to the missionary activity of Sufi orders, particularly the Chishtiyah, Suhrawardiyah, Qadiriyah and Naqshbandiyah."
    http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:XbGLOaNVKHoJ:www.oxfordislamicstudies.com/article/opr/t253/e18+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

    Which is why, to this day, Hindus visit and seek blessings at the tombs of the Sufi saints (this is just one):
    "This 16th century mausoleum to a Sufi saint sees more Hindus than Muslims flocking to it every day. So it has been for centuries."
    https://maptia.com/bijoyv/stories/the-islamic-shrine-where-hindus-pray

    Peace.

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  180. Clyde says:
    @Ace
    I'm sorry. I tried to find the source of this idea in my head before I posted but couldn't find it. I'm reasonably sure my memory is accurate about what I read but darned if I can prove it. If I do better with my desktop or notes at home I'll let you know.

    Thanks. Much appreciated!

    Read More
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  181. Marcus says:
    @Clyde

    The Indians, used to enjoying the warmth of ahimsa, were stunned by the violence that the Arab raiders displayed in robbing the rich and seducing the indigenous damsels. Yet the irony was that they did all this in the name of the Most Compassionate and Just Allah, who counts these felonies as acts of fairness when they are committed to torture the unbelievers.
     
    Vegetarian grazing animals are preyed upon by the lions and other carnivorous predators. The dharmic civilizations you speak of were/are vegetarian or mostly vegetarian. The invading Muslim forces were carnivorous to omnivorous. They were the predators upon the Hindus of India and this is how large parts of India were turned Muslim during wars and battles that lasted a few centuries where 80 million Hindus were killed and numerous Hindu shrines and temples destroyed. 80 million Hindus sounds high. Prolly more like 40 million were killed off, ethnically cleansed for Imperialist Muslim lebensraum.
    Just about all Muslims from India/Pakistan have ancestors who were Hindu. Who were forcibly converted to Islam. Talha has previously stated that this is not the case with his ancestors.

    They were too naive even after previous (though less extensive) invasions. Gandhi had learned nothing after 1200 years. That’s not to say none of them fought back, the Marathas reconquered virtually all of the subcontinent from the Mughals before falling to the British: so India is one of the few civilizations to ever throw back the jihadi wave, the others being Spain, Austria and Russia. You have to admire their perseverance considering they faced much larger and more brutal Muslim armies than Europe did for the most part.

    Read More
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  182. Marcus says:
    @Talha
    Yeah, wouldn't taking over the West Bank be so much nicer if it was full of peacenik inner-Jihad Muslims. I'm sure Mr. Spencer has my best interests in mind.

    "Islam is really bad - except for the Meccan part - you guys should only practice Meccan Islam." I've heard that before.

    Peace.

    Maybe a more peaceful movement would attract more international support? I’m mostly neutral on the issue: but my guess is suicide bombings and such turn off would-be sympathizers. An Arab Muslim I spoke to said that the repeated defeats of progressive socialist governments by Israel were a huge factor in the rise of fundamentalism in the region.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey Marcus,

    You are onto something there though. I spoke to a friend recently from Senegal. He has lived in Paris, NY, and Chicago and plans to move back to Dakar in a few years. I was surprised, but he said that Senegal was very stable and fairly clean (Transparency International [https://www.transparency.org/country/] ranks it with Italy and even better than many Eastern European countries). He said a lot of credit goes to the scholars and Sufi orders (especially Sh. Ahmadu Bamba [ra]) who resisted the French through nonviolent means and even cooperated with them at times while instilling in the people a very hard work ethic. Once the French left, the orders (the Muridiyya being the strongest) took solid root in guiding the people toward a pretty mellow and spiritual understanding of Islam - even the most non-committed person still prays five times there. He said even many of the Salafis are pretty chill over there. He also said that a lot of the people had doubts at the beginning with respect to the non-violent approach, especially since the Tijaniyyah took up arms against them (and lost, of course), but it is hard to argue with the results.

    And I totally agree with the suicide bombing - that has to stop - stat!

    Peace.

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  183. Article I Section 9 Clause 8 of the Constitution of the United States says:
    Clause 8. No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State. 
    If an all expense paid tour to the Zionist state of Israel, with or without brainwashing is not an emolument (not to mention a bribe) what is? Although an amendment removing the words ” …without the Consent of Congress,… ” might need to be added.

    Read More
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  184. […] 14, 2016 “Information Clearing House” – “Unz Review” – There is considerable chatter about who will win in some of the hotly contested […]

    Read More
  185. RobinG says:

    OT, but here goes, and there’s a Muslim angle. :)

    Obama-Duterte Blow Up: What the Corporate Media Doesn’t Get
    by Wayne Madsen, 09/09/2016

    “The breakdown in relations between the Philippines, a former and much-abused American colony, and the United States is based on renewed Philippines nationalism, a disgust by Duterte for the selective human rights agenda of the Obama administration, and the Philippines leader’s antipathy for those schooled in Muslim beliefs in neighboring Indonesia……….”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    Hi Robin,
    Nationalism is sweeping over the globe.

    I was at a dinner last Monday where Karl Rove was the invited speaker. He answered someone's question re: Trump's ME stance thus: If Trump wins, U.S Embassy in Israel moves to Jerusalem. Bluntly, he noted it as a pledge to Adelson.
    [I hope to attend a NYEcon club lunch tomorrow with Trump as speaker, and pose the same question to him directly, knowing full well that I am going to be the recipient of a bit of wrath from some in attendance; they know my sentiments.]

    To your remark: "Sam, your yearning for peace is meaningless if it is a Pax Judaica, a pacification by suppression or expulsion, but I don’t think you mean it that way. Too bad you’re so resigned to old mistakes and injustices."

    You're right I don't mean it that way at all. No resignation on my part, more like choosing the timing and terrain of my battles for better odds.

    , @KA
    "Should Duterte win in 2016, he would be the first occupant of Malacañang Palace who could claim to represent the country’s Tri-People – Christians, Muslims and Lumads.

    While Duterte is a devout Catholic and his father, former Governor Vicente Duterte, was a true-blue Cebuano, his mother, the late Soledad Roa Duterte, had both Maranao and Camayo blood in her.

    The Maranaos are among the tribes in the Southern Philippines living in the periphery or vicinity of Lake Lanao who embraced Islam while the Camayos are the tribal people of Surigao and Agusan.

    The Duterte matriarch was born in Cabadbaran, Agusan del Norte to a family which had Chinese, Maranao and Camayo lineage.

    Duterte’s first-born son, Paulo, also married a Tausug-Maranao girl and his children have embraced Islam.

    “I have grandchildren who are Muslim and Christian,” Duterte once said in explaining why he would like to see an end to the conflict in the Southern Philippines.

    The blood ties to the marginalised Filipino groups could be behind the sympathy shown by Duterte to both the Muslims and the Tribal People." http://duterte.net/2015/11/29/dutertes-moro-ip-blood-and-the-search-for-peace/


    I think similar information appeared in Asia Time online
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  186. KA says:
    @Clyde
    Why are you complaining about Robert Spencer's compensation? What the hell do you care? Like I said, Spencer does a great job exposing Islam and Islamic Jihad, so more power to him. I could care less if Jews, Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, and Hindus are paying him via their donations to the David Horowitz Freedom Foundation.

    1 Geller and Spencer’s work actually shaped Breivik’s ideas, Walt explains –

    http://mondoweiss.net/2011/07/geller-and-spencers-work-actually-shaped-breiviks-ideas-walt-explains/#sthash.00Yy4NvR.dpuf

    Jewish Communal Fund, a mainstream philanthropic fund that describes itself as “dedicated to the welfare and security of the Jewish community at home and abroad,” has funded Geller’s work. JCF’s annual tax filings show contributions of $30,000 in the 2012 tax year and $70,000 in the 2013 tax year, the last tax year for which filings are available, directed to Geller’s AFDI [American Freedom Defense Initiative].

    - http://mondoweiss.net/2015/11/jewish-communal-islamophobia/#sthash.OHTNvqLN.dpuf

    The Clarion Fund, an offshoot of the Jewish Orthodox fundamentalist Aish HaTorah, gained notoriety for its distribution of the film “Obsession: Radical Islam’s War Against the West” to 28 million swing state voters before the 2008 presidential election between then-Sen. Barack Obama, an Illinois Democrat, and Sen. John McCain, a Republican in Arizona. The film’s central thesis was that fundamentalist Islam is as bad as, if not worse than, Nazism. –

    http://mondoweiss.net/2015/11/jewish-communal-islamophobia/#sthash.OHTNvqLN.dpuf

    She ( Geller) has used her celebrity, boosted by Fox News (a principal player in the Islamophobia industry), to create cross-continental activist networks against Islam. Robert Spencer, Geller’s partner in crime, is also a focus of Lean’s. “People such as Robert Spencer, Daniel Pipes, or Martin Kramer, all online Islamophobes, spread each others’ postings and write-ups to their own audience,” writes Lean. “With each new click of the mouse, the story grows.”

    -http://mondoweiss.net/2012/10/an-industry-built-on-hate-how-the-right-wing-successfully-brought-anti-muslim-bigotry-into-the-american-mainstream/#sthash.OC92gYF1.dpuf

    But Spencer has never studied Islam. He holds a master’s degree in religious studies related to early Christianity from the University of North Carolina.

    - http://mondoweiss.net/2012/09/fraudsters-new-report-highlights-how-islamophobes-have-no-expertise-in-the-religion-they-claim-to-know/#sthash.hWZ36en8.dpuf

    Spencer coauthored book with Geller,hates Obama’s support for Palestinian state .

    * Spencer publishes a book entitled Stealth Jihad: How Radical Islam is Subverting America without Guns or Bombs in 2008.

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/08/24/islamophobia-in-america/

    Besides providing the initial energy for the Islamophobic crusade, conservative elements from within the pro-Israel lobby bankrolled the network’s apparatus, enabling it to influence the national debate. One philanthropist in particular has provided the beneficence to propel the campaign ahead. He is a little-known Los Angeles-area software security entrepreneur named Aubrey Chernick, who operates out of a security consulting firm blandly named the National Center for Crisis and Continuity Coordination. A former trustee of the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, which has served as a think tank for the American Israeli Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), a frontline lobbying group for Israel, Chernick is said to be worth $750 million.

    Through the Fairbrook Foundation, a private entity he and his wife Joyce control, Chernick has provided funding to groups ranging from the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) and CAMERA, a right-wing, pro-Israel, media-watchdog outfit, to violent Israeli settlers living on Palestinian lands and figures like the pseudo-academic author Robert Spencer, who is largely responsible for popularizing conspiracy theories about the coming conquest of the West by Muslim fanatics seeking to establish a worldwide caliphate.

    According to the website Politico, almost $1 million in donations from Chernick has been steered to Spencer’s Jihad Watch group through David Horowitz’s Freedom Center.

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2010/12/20/the-great-fear-2/

    Read More
    • Replies: @annamaria
    Thank you for the factual material.
    The bellicose Judaism is no different than the bellicose Islam or bellicose Christianity. The ziocons' deeds are similar to the deeds of Inquisition during Reformation years; exercise of alleged ideological purity through inflicting death and sufferings to "others."

    It is impossible to overlook the names of main ideologues and cheerleaders of the ongoing tragedy in the Middle East: The predominance of the names of Israel-firsters and Zionists speaks for itself.
    The US ziocons have managed to bring the Middle East problems into Europe and to saddle the EU with the bill for the US/Israel/EU misadventures (war crimes, actually) that have destroyed the formally functioning Middle East states.
    The AIPAC, ADL, Horowitz’s Freedom Center and such are filled with lunatics whose main accomplishment is the rivers of blood and mountains of flesh of innocent civilians, including tens if not hundreds of thousands of children, in the Middle East. -- What a ghastly monument to Zionism.
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  187. RobinG says:
    @Sam Shama
    You may be right. However, I'd base it on the fact that Jews are overwhelmingly liberal, and for whatever reasons of history, and an argumentation based culture, understand the dangers posed by people like Spencer and Pamela Gellar.

    Anders Brevik, the Oslo mass murderer, in his manifesto https://www.washingtonpost.com/r/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2011/07/24/National-Politics/Graphics/2083+-+A+European+Declaration+of+Independence.pdf

    quoted extensively from the writings of European and American bloggers — including Robert Spencer and Pamela Geller — who promote a conspiratorial anti-Muslim agenda under the pretext of fighting radical Islam. Because of the reach of the Internet, these ideas float freely across borders and are reinforced by like-minded bigots.

    Hi Sam,

    This is carryover from previous thread. It’s J-Street kind of stuff, but, having to make a choice I put it on the positive stack.

    http://jewishnews.timesofisrael.com/israeli-figures-ask-diaspora-to-help-end-the-occupation/

    Amongst those making the call are high-ranking ex-officers and envoys, ministers, authors, artists and professors

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    Yeah it is happening slowly. I had noted the IDF general staff's mood previously:
    http://www.unz.com/article/fifty-one-foreign-service-officers-cant-be-wrong/?highlight=IDF#comment-1464000

    The key is to not elicit a sharp reaction from Netanyahu but chip away. My point re: 1948 was simple. If the objective is to get the Pals a livable deal, start with 1967, not 1948, [which does not preclude compensation for those displaced in 1948, only that arguments for a RoR won't be of any use]
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  188. Sam Shama says:
    @RobinG
    OT, but here goes, and there's a Muslim angle. :)

    Obama-Duterte Blow Up: What the Corporate Media Doesn’t Get
    by Wayne Madsen, 09/09/2016

    "The breakdown in relations between the Philippines, a former and much-abused American colony, and the United States is based on renewed Philippines nationalism, a disgust by Duterte for the selective human rights agenda of the Obama administration, and the Philippines leader’s antipathy for those schooled in Muslim beliefs in neighboring Indonesia.........."

    Hi Robin,
    Nationalism is sweeping over the globe.

    I was at a dinner last Monday where Karl Rove was the invited speaker. He answered someone’s question re: Trump’s ME stance thus: If Trump wins, U.S Embassy in Israel moves to Jerusalem. Bluntly, he noted it as a pledge to Adelson.
    [I hope to attend a NYEcon club lunch tomorrow with Trump as speaker, and pose the same question to him directly, knowing full well that I am going to be the recipient of a bit of wrath from some in attendance; they know my sentiments.]

    To your remark: “Sam, your yearning for peace is meaningless if it is a Pax Judaica, a pacification by suppression or expulsion, but I don’t think you mean it that way. Too bad you’re so resigned to old mistakes and injustices.”

    You’re right I don’t mean it that way at all. No resignation on my part, more like choosing the timing and terrain of my battles for better odds.

    Read More
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  189. Sam Shama says:
    @RobinG
    Hi Sam,

    This is carryover from previous thread. It's J-Street kind of stuff, but, having to make a choice I put it on the positive stack.

    http://jewishnews.timesofisrael.com/israeli-figures-ask-diaspora-to-help-end-the-occupation/
    Amongst those making the call are high-ranking ex-officers and envoys, ministers, authors, artists and professors

    Yeah it is happening slowly. I had noted the IDF general staff’s mood previously:

    http://www.unz.com/article/fifty-one-foreign-service-officers-cant-be-wrong/?highlight=IDF#comment-1464000

    The key is to not elicit a sharp reaction from Netanyahu but chip away. My point re: 1948 was simple. If the objective is to get the Pals a livable deal, start with 1967, not 1948, [which does not preclude compensation for those displaced in 1948, only that arguments for a RoR won't be of any use]

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    start with 1967, not 1948

    What is special about 1967? Why not 2016? Why not 2025? If one accepts the 1967 borders, what is the rationale for not accepting "any" additional annexations at any time, including the future?
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  190. KA [AKA "Carthage"] says:
    @Clyde
    I have chosen my sides. I am pro-Israel and pro-Western civilization. You can have your Iran and your Muslims. You can have your wacky Sunnis and Shiites. You can have your mass murdering ISIS killing and raping the Christians of Iraq and Syria. Hillary will not be Israel friendly no matter how much she gets in US Jewish donor money so go vote for her. This is my advice to all you Israel obsessives.
    DJT will be neutral on Israel to pro-Israel. Trump is more difficult to predict but he wants us out of the Middle East so this is not Israel helpful.
    You must choose between 1.7 billion brainwashed, Muhammad worshiping Muslims and 17 million Jews who have gentile controlling mind rays at their disposal.
    So which side are you on boys which side are you on?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iAIM02kv0g

    1 America’s response to the 9/11 attacks augmented rather than defeated the jihadist threat, with the consequences of the Iraq war now being felt in terror-scarred France, President Francois Hollande said Sunday, as the US marked the 15th anniversary of the devastating attacks in New York and Washington, DC.

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/us-response-to-911-increased-global-terror-threat-hollande/

    In a late-night address to the nation, French President Francois Hollande linked the deadly “terrorist attack” in Nice to the conflict in Iraq and Syria — and said France will intensify its military operations there in the aftermath of today’s tragedy.

    http://abcnews.go.com/International/french-president-links-nice-attack-iraq-syria-conflict/story?id=40597252

    Who intentionally messed up post war Iraq ?

    2 “First, we didn’t invade Iraq to bring democracy — but once we overthrew Saddam, we had a view of what should follow,” Rice responded. “If Don and the Pentagon had done their job (after claiming the rights to lead post-war rebuilding—things might have turned out differently).”

    Powell replied by seconding Rice’s critique, saying “the boys in the band were brain dead.”

    “Doug and Paul claims they had a plan (turn Iraq and our Army over to Chalibi) and leave,” Powell wrote, appearing to reference Bush administration officials Doug Feith, Paul Wolfowitz, and the late Iraqi politician Ahmed Chalabi, who died last year.

    “43 knew what had to be done,” Powell continued, referring to President George W. Bush, “specifically rejected the Chalibi crowd and as you say the boys in the band were brain dead.”

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/christophermassie/rice-if-rumsfeld-pentagon-had-done-their-job-iraq-might-have?utm_term=.rkkPaQJKzg#.py0kW3Ql1b

    4 Didn’t Micheal Ledeen ask for more chaos and wasn’t it him who demand that the cauldron of destruction be unleashed on ME as fast as possible when chaos was predicted by sane people?

    3 Who ordered to foment mess Iraq ? We should ask Brenenr .

    He should call Hollande and let him know how disappointed he was and how Hollande just provided succor to terror. Spencer and Geller would be very upset with Hollande now- how is it possible For Hollande to ignore all their pleas writings and education?

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    • Replies: @annamaria
    Yes, Micheal Ledeen, of Operation Gladio fame.
    Ledeed, similar to the Kagans (see their exploits in Ukraine) has never seen any problems in embracing Nazism.

    "The name Gladio, (or ‘Sword’ in Italian) was technically the name given to their operations in Italy, but has since come by extension to stand for the phenomenon as a whole. Evidence [was] meticulously documented by Swiss historian Daniele Ganser in his 2004 book "NATO’s Secret Armies"...The evidence contained in Ganser’s book, of terrorism directed against the people by secret armies funded and organised by NATO and answerable to deep state elements within NATO, MI6 and the CIA rather than the respective governments is so shocking that the initial reaction of most people would be to reject it....
    The terrorist bombings proved to be a means by which Pentagon planners were able to take their own (imaginary or delusional) fears about the rise of the Left and turn them into very real and concrete fears for the populace....Among the most far-reaching findings on the secret war, as seen in the analysis, ranges the fact that the stay-behind network had served as a tool to spread fear amongst the population also in the absence of an invasion. The secret armies in some cases functioned as an almost perfect manipulation system that transported the fears of high-ranking military officers in the Pentagon and NATO to the populations in Western Europe. ... brutality and terror was employed to control populations on both sides of the Iron Curtain...."
    https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Operation_Gladio

    Yellow Cake and Black Shirt: Michael Ledeen linked to "Gladio"
    http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4081269
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  191. KA [AKA "Carthage"] says:
    @RobinG
    OT, but here goes, and there's a Muslim angle. :)

    Obama-Duterte Blow Up: What the Corporate Media Doesn’t Get
    by Wayne Madsen, 09/09/2016

    "The breakdown in relations between the Philippines, a former and much-abused American colony, and the United States is based on renewed Philippines nationalism, a disgust by Duterte for the selective human rights agenda of the Obama administration, and the Philippines leader’s antipathy for those schooled in Muslim beliefs in neighboring Indonesia.........."

    “Should Duterte win in 2016, he would be the first occupant of Malacañang Palace who could claim to represent the country’s Tri-People – Christians, Muslims and Lumads.

    While Duterte is a devout Catholic and his father, former Governor Vicente Duterte, was a true-blue Cebuano, his mother, the late Soledad Roa Duterte, had both Maranao and Camayo blood in her.

    The Maranaos are among the tribes in the Southern Philippines living in the periphery or vicinity of Lake Lanao who embraced Islam while the Camayos are the tribal people of Surigao and Agusan.

    The Duterte matriarch was born in Cabadbaran, Agusan del Norte to a family which had Chinese, Maranao and Camayo lineage.

    Duterte’s first-born son, Paulo, also married a Tausug-Maranao girl and his children have embraced Islam.

    “I have grandchildren who are Muslim and Christian,” Duterte once said in explaining why he would like to see an end to the conflict in the Southern Philippines.

    The blood ties to the marginalised Filipino groups could be behind the sympathy shown by Duterte to both the Muslims and the Tribal People.” http://duterte.net/2015/11/29/dutertes-moro-ip-blood-and-the-search-for-peace/

    I think similar information appeared in Asia Time online

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Thanks for the links, Carthage. I sincerely hope there can be a peaceful end to this long conflict.

    Peace.
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  192. Talha says:
    @Marcus
    Maybe a more peaceful movement would attract more international support? I'm mostly neutral on the issue: but my guess is suicide bombings and such turn off would-be sympathizers. An Arab Muslim I spoke to said that the repeated defeats of progressive socialist governments by Israel were a huge factor in the rise of fundamentalism in the region.

    Hey Marcus,

    You are onto something there though. I spoke to a friend recently from Senegal. He has lived in Paris, NY, and Chicago and plans to move back to Dakar in a few years. I was surprised, but he said that Senegal was very stable and fairly clean (Transparency International (https://www.transparency.org/country/] ranks it with Italy and even better than many Eastern European countries). He said a lot of credit goes to the scholars and Sufi orders (especially Sh. Ahmadu Bamba [ra]) who resisted the French through nonviolent means and even cooperated with them at times while instilling in the people a very hard work ethic. Once the French left, the orders (the Muridiyya being the strongest) took solid root in guiding the people toward a pretty mellow and spiritual understanding of Islam – even the most non-committed person still prays five times there. He said even many of the Salafis are pretty chill over there. He also said that a lot of the people had doubts at the beginning with respect to the non-violent approach, especially since the Tijaniyyah took up arms against them (and lost, of course), but it is hard to argue with the results.

    And I totally agree with the suicide bombing – that has to stop – stat!

    Peace.

    Read More
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  193. Talha says:
    @KA
    "Should Duterte win in 2016, he would be the first occupant of Malacañang Palace who could claim to represent the country’s Tri-People – Christians, Muslims and Lumads.

    While Duterte is a devout Catholic and his father, former Governor Vicente Duterte, was a true-blue Cebuano, his mother, the late Soledad Roa Duterte, had both Maranao and Camayo blood in her.

    The Maranaos are among the tribes in the Southern Philippines living in the periphery or vicinity of Lake Lanao who embraced Islam while the Camayos are the tribal people of Surigao and Agusan.

    The Duterte matriarch was born in Cabadbaran, Agusan del Norte to a family which had Chinese, Maranao and Camayo lineage.

    Duterte’s first-born son, Paulo, also married a Tausug-Maranao girl and his children have embraced Islam.

    “I have grandchildren who are Muslim and Christian,” Duterte once said in explaining why he would like to see an end to the conflict in the Southern Philippines.

    The blood ties to the marginalised Filipino groups could be behind the sympathy shown by Duterte to both the Muslims and the Tribal People." http://duterte.net/2015/11/29/dutertes-moro-ip-blood-and-the-search-for-peace/


    I think similar information appeared in Asia Time online

    Thanks for the links, Carthage. I sincerely hope there can be a peaceful end to this long conflict.

    Peace.

    Read More
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  194. Talha says:
    @Clyde

    The Indians, used to enjoying the warmth of ahimsa, were stunned by the violence that the Arab raiders displayed in robbing the rich and seducing the indigenous damsels. Yet the irony was that they did all this in the name of the Most Compassionate and Just Allah, who counts these felonies as acts of fairness when they are committed to torture the unbelievers.
     
    Vegetarian grazing animals are preyed upon by the lions and other carnivorous predators. The dharmic civilizations you speak of were/are vegetarian or mostly vegetarian. The invading Muslim forces were carnivorous to omnivorous. They were the predators upon the Hindus of India and this is how large parts of India were turned Muslim during wars and battles that lasted a few centuries where 80 million Hindus were killed and numerous Hindu shrines and temples destroyed. 80 million Hindus sounds high. Prolly more like 40 million were killed off, ethnically cleansed for Imperialist Muslim lebensraum.
    Just about all Muslims from India/Pakistan have ancestors who were Hindu. Who were forcibly converted to Islam. Talha has previously stated that this is not the case with his ancestors.

    While there is no doubt a great number of Hindus were killed in the invasions and many temples sacked – when did the Turkic steppe warriors ever play with kid gloves in this regard? There were Hindus involved in the invasions from the beginning:
    T”he position of Hindu generals, soldiers, and scholars at the Ghaznavid court is also significant. Even Mahmud, the iconoclast, had a contingent of Hindu officers and soldiers. He richly rewarded at least one Sanskrit poet, and had Hindu pandits at his court. He also issued coins with Sanskrit inscriptions. The Hindu position seems to have improved greatly in the days of his successor, Masud.”

    http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00islamlinks/ikram/part1_02.html

    Alas, you come up with your nonsense again:

    Just about all Muslims from India/Pakistan have ancestors who were Hindu. Who were forcibly converted to Islam.

    BS – cite your sources.

    “Even though Islam was often strongly supported by the state, the rapid growth of Muslim population was mainly due to the missionary activity of Sufi orders, particularly the Chishtiyah, Suhrawardiyah, Qadiriyah and Naqshbandiyah.”

    http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:XbGLOaNVKHoJ:www.oxfordislamicstudies.com/article/opr/t253/e18+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

    Which is why, to this day, Hindus visit and seek blessings at the tombs of the Sufi saints (this is just one):
    “This 16th century mausoleum to a Sufi saint sees more Hindus than Muslims flocking to it every day. So it has been for centuries.”

    https://maptia.com/bijoyv/stories/the-islamic-shrine-where-hindus-pray

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Clyde
    The Hindus of India look like the Muslims of India/Pakistan so most Muslims there are derived from forcible conversions of Hindus. Go ahead if you like and give me your percentages of today's Muslims in the Indo-Pak region who are Muslim due to Sufi (lol) preachers and to forcible conversions. What is your breakdown on this?

    And what a shame that ol buccaneer Muhammad did not have any Sufi preachers to help him convert the Christians of the Middle East to Mohammedanism in the 7th century. So so much blood letting could have been avoided as followers of Jesus surely would have gravitated to the so called final prophet.

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  195. Talha says:
    @Marcus
    I believe there were fatwas issued against her, which fits the Muslim tradition going back to Muhammad. I'm not a fan of feminism, but countries like Bangladesh certainly don't need baby booms, a lot of the problems in the Third World are probably due to large populations straining resources and pushing down wages. The Muslims of the Indian subcontinent are heirs to the great traditions of the Dharmic civilizations, maybe they can rediscover these. Like Anwar Shaikh (Pakistani who became a Hindu) said

    The day Muhammad bin Qasim, entered Sindh as a conqueror, must rank as the most ominous, odious and outrageous moment in the history of India, whose proud, pious and powerful traditions have been the torch-bearer of world civilisation. The Indians, used to enjoying the warmth of ahimsa, were stunned by the violence that the Arab raiders displayed in robbing the rich and seducing the indigenous damsels. Yet the irony was that they did all this in the name of the Most Compassionate and Just Allah, who counts these felonies as acts of fairness when they are committed to torture the unbelievers.
     
    http://www.hinduwisdom.info/Islamic_Onslaught.htm

    Hey Marcus,

    There may have indeed been fatwas against her, but are you saying there was actually a fatwa from a legitimate qualified scholar that stated she could be killed with impunity by anyone – I would have to see this to believe it. Or are you saying the fatwa was calling on the government to stop and/or punish her – this is more likely. You have to keep in mind what fatwas are; they are juristic opinions coming from a body of scholars that fill a quasi-legislative/judicial role in society. Just as in our society, a judge can set down a judgement, but it must be executed by those with executive prerogative/privileges. The connection is explained by Mufti Musa Furber (db), with the example of a fatwa issued for wild-life protection in Indonesia:
    “Indonesia made a splash in 2014 when it issued a wildlife protection fatwa. A fatwa is, by its very nature, a non-binding opinion. A wildlife protection fatwa means nothing if it is not gazetted into legislation and then enforced. And it needs to be proactively enforced in order to be truly preventative – otherwise, it can be shrugged off as a business fine or risk.”

    http://musafurber.com/2016/08/27/indonesian-man-arrested-650-pangolins-found-dead-freezers/

    For instance, historically, the Shafi’i scholars were formulating fatwa after fatwa on matters which were simply ignored by the ruling Abbasid authorities in lieu of the fatwas of the Hanafi school which they favored.

    The Muslims of the Indian subcontinent are heirs to the great traditions of the Dharmic civilizations, maybe they can rediscover these.

    Correct, much of the meditation, attainment of spiritual states through asceticism and rigor has already been absorbed into Sufi practices as much as can be allowed for. We discussed Imam Biruni (ra) and his balanced approach to viewing and evaluating these Dharmic traditions. This needs to be revived. I don’t think many Muslims will convert to Hinduism (even less than any movement from Christianity toward Hinduism), you’ll get a rare one here and there. I’ve personally met Hindu converts to Islam, never met one going the other way.

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Marcus
    Even defining Hinduism as a religion is tricky, you could say that all indigenous traditions of India were "Hindu," so there's never been any doctrine of conversion or apostasy. A Hindu could conceivably venerate Jesus, Muhammad, Moses etc., and indeed many have. The Rig Veda says "Truth is One, though the sages know it variously." However in the late 19th century some nationalist-inspired movements formed which are trying to bring Muslims and Christians back into the fold, but it's an uphill battle. The tolerant nature of paganism and polytheism puts it at disadvantage vis-a-vis monopolizing and aggressive Abrahamic faiths. Transition to Christianity might be easier for most Muslims outside of parts of the subcontinent, while I oppose all Abrahamic religions, I consider it the lesser of two evils. It's hard to gain much traction with laws against proselytization and apostasy in most Muslim countries though.
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  196. Talha says:
    @Marcus
    Yes, the notion that the pre-Islamic Arabs were savages should be put to rest, look at Petra and Mada'in Saleh; well the beduin probably weren't very cultured, but according to Herodotus they had a sense of honor at least. Interestingly, the Byzantine iconoclasm was likely inspired by the Muslims: "if we're losing to them, maybe we should adopt it?" It was a major factor in the drift of eastern and western churches, since the mostly illiterate western population needed biblical-inspired imagery in the Pope's estimation. Think of all the great Orthodox icons and mosaics that were lost, and then the Calvinists and other early Protestants did the same in the West a millennium later.

    Hey Marcus,

    We studied this episode in my Byzantine History course and yes, there is evidence that it was inspired by the edict of Caliph Yazid II – which was repealed by his successors:

    http://lingualeo.com/es/jungle/the-iconoclastic-edict-caliph-yazid-ii-ad-721-by-aa-vasiliev-432970#/page/1

    Think of all the great Orthodox icons and mosaics that were lost

    Correct and Daesh is carrying out a destruction that lays to waste centuries worth of work of cooperative human endeavor to preserve these things.

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Marcus
    Of course that wasn't the only instance of Christian destruction, there was the Reformation and the anti-pagan persecution that looted or destroyed temples. http://www.patheos.com/blogs/anxiousbench/2014/07/the-breaking-of-images/ However, I don't think you can compare it to Mohammedanism (or Judaism) since Christianity isn't legalistic by nature, its antihuman elements aren't codified as integral to the faith, hence great sculpture and portraiture (let alone music) could be reborn in Europe, but never in the Muslim world. Christians could eventually exhume the great Greco-Roman civilizations and then those of the rest of the world to light for all to admire, whereas most Muslims are ignorant or even contemptuous of their direct ancestors in Egypt or what's now Pakistan.
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  197. Talha says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    Basically your entire argument boils down to
     
    "It is legitimate to judge event by the outcome for it is the soundest criterion"(c) Carl Von Clausewitz, Vom Kriege. This method is also known, much earlier than Vom Kriege was written, from a somewhat ancient history:

    "Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?"

    Matthew 7:16-20King James Version (KJV)

    Ahh, this damn Christian determinism with their haram cause and effect. No wonder Muslims strive to get their hands on those Infidels' achievements, because they cannot produce those on their own no matter how they try. Then they get frustrated and... we know the rest of the story. I deliberately mentioned here such words as Kondopoga and Sagra.

    Sigh…you know, you have some very solid criticisms and then you bring out this straw-man nonsense based on Mr. Reilly totally misunderstanding an issue he has zero expertise in.

    determinism with their haram cause and effect

    I studied aqeedah (Islamic creed) under a mufti who was a direct student of the late Damascene scholar Shaykh Adib Kallas (ra) a remarkable theologian who was a master of this science (so I know a bit about what we believe): http://seekershub.org/blog/2009/10/shaykh-adib-kallas-died-today-october-21-2009-one-of-the-foremost-scholars-of-our-times/

    You are bringing out nonsense that Muslims deny observable cause and effect – what the Sunni Orthodox deny is that causality that exists outside the will of God in objects (in and of themselves or by their very nature). Thus, the belief is, while indeed through His omnipotence God creates both the cause and the effect and fuses the two together – through His wisdom He allows it to follow a usual pattern – while being able to break with the pattern at any time. What does this mean in practice? Not much, a Muslim chemist will carry on his work and observing that one chemical compound interacts predictably with another in a measured way, while believing internally that God is the true cause behind everything his eyes see and that He can miraculously suspend normal cause/effect relationship at any moment. Thus a virgin woman can give birth to a male child in Palestine somewhere two centuries ago without recourse to the necessary ‘Y’ chromosome.

    Note to readers: this is not up for debate, I am merely stating the position to free it from the off-base description insinuated above, feel free to guffaw at it all you want.

    And this is all at the Newtonian level – which is where Ibn Rushd (ra) and the rationalists were operating. Once you get down to the quantum level (I remember my intro to quantum theory in UCLA – blew my mind), all bets are off. Just try assuming a pre-determinant cause and effect – too bad, you are dealing with probabilities of results – nothing is set in stone. Inside the atom, Imam Ghazali (ra) and the Ashari-Maturidis get top billing:
    “Further, they agree that events in the world ate not strictly predictable. Both accept the idea that unexpected, unpredictable things can and do occur. According to Al-Ghazali’s explanation, God is omnipotent and involved in the world at every moment and can, therefore, cause anything to happen. The Copenhagen Interpretation of quantum theory says that it is impossible to predict the exact behavior of an object based on physical laws. As a result, while one might expect a lead ball to fall when it is dropped, there is a definite possibility that the ball will rise instead. The independent existence of teal objects is doubted by both al-Ghazali and the Copenhagen Interpretation. ”
    Causality Then and Now: Al-Ghazali and Quantum Theory

    http://www.ghazali.org/articles/harding-V10N2-Summer-93.pdf

    “As the theory of the atom, quantum mechanics is perhaps the most successful theory in the history of science. It enables physicists, chemists, and technicians to calculate and predict the outcome of a vast number of experiments and to create new and advanced technology based on the insight into the behavior of atomic objects. But it is also a theory that challenges our imagination. It seems to violate some fundamental principles of classical physics, principles that eventually have become a part of western common sense since the rise of the modern worldview in the Renaissance.”
    “Apparently, we are living in a quantum world since everything is constituted by atomic and subatomic particles. Hence classical physics seems merely to be a useful approximation to a world which is quantum mechanical on all scales. Such a view, which many modern physicists support, can be called quantum fundamentalism (Zinkernagel forthcoming). It can be defined as a position containing two components: (1) everything in the Universe is fundamentally of quantum nature (the ontological component); and (2) everything in the Universe is ultimately describable in quantum mechanical terms (the epistemological component)”

    http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/qm-copenhagen/

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
    I really appreciate your excursion into quantum mechanics but FYI I do have books by Michio Kaku or Greene (namely Hidden Reality), among many. But me, being a very simple man and living by "approximations" and sometimes generalizations, this is by far more important (and pressing) manifestations of Islam, than any intellectual exercises:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2hMYOYbC-4

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  198. MEexpert says:
    @Clyde
    I have chosen my sides. I am pro-Israel and pro-Western civilization. You can have your Iran and your Muslims. You can have your wacky Sunnis and Shiites. You can have your mass murdering ISIS killing and raping the Christians of Iraq and Syria. Hillary will not be Israel friendly no matter how much she gets in US Jewish donor money so go vote for her. This is my advice to all you Israel obsessives.
    DJT will be neutral on Israel to pro-Israel. Trump is more difficult to predict but he wants us out of the Middle East so this is not Israel helpful.
    You must choose between 1.7 billion brainwashed, Muhammad worshiping Muslims and 17 million Jews who have gentile controlling mind rays at their disposal.
    So which side are you on boys which side are you on?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iAIM02kv0g

    Clyde, I don’t know what you are smoking but your facts are all wrong. The cause of destruction and mayhem in the middle east is not Iran but the Israel and the United States. Israel is the biggest terrorist state. They have been terrorizing Palestinians for the more than 50 years. They have killing Palestinians and Iranians (engineers and scientists) all over the world. The Al-Qaeda and now the ISIS were created by the US and Israel. These groups are supported by the US, Israel and funded by Saudi Arabia. US is the biggest exporter of terrorism along with its surrogates Israel and Saudi Arabia.

    You also have absolutely no knowledge about Islam and the Muslims. Unfortunately, the only people who are brainwashed are the American people. They have been totally brainwashed by Israel and its supporters (AIPAC, etc.), that is why they continue to die for a country who couldn’t care less about them (think USS Liberty).

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  199. Clyde says:
    @Talha
    While there is no doubt a great number of Hindus were killed in the invasions and many temples sacked - when did the Turkic steppe warriors ever play with kid gloves in this regard? There were Hindus involved in the invasions from the beginning:
    T"he position of Hindu generals, soldiers, and scholars at the Ghaznavid court is also significant. Even Mahmud, the iconoclast, had a contingent of Hindu officers and soldiers. He richly rewarded at least one Sanskrit poet, and had Hindu pandits at his court. He also issued coins with Sanskrit inscriptions. The Hindu position seems to have improved greatly in the days of his successor, Masud."
    http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00islamlinks/ikram/part1_02.html

    Alas, you come up with your nonsense again:


    Just about all Muslims from India/Pakistan have ancestors who were Hindu. Who were forcibly converted to Islam.
     
    BS - cite your sources.

    "Even though Islam was often strongly supported by the state, the rapid growth of Muslim population was mainly due to the missionary activity of Sufi orders, particularly the Chishtiyah, Suhrawardiyah, Qadiriyah and Naqshbandiyah."
    http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:XbGLOaNVKHoJ:www.oxfordislamicstudies.com/article/opr/t253/e18+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

    Which is why, to this day, Hindus visit and seek blessings at the tombs of the Sufi saints (this is just one):
    "This 16th century mausoleum to a Sufi saint sees more Hindus than Muslims flocking to it every day. So it has been for centuries."
    https://maptia.com/bijoyv/stories/the-islamic-shrine-where-hindus-pray

    Peace.

    The Hindus of India look like the Muslims of India/Pakistan so most Muslims there are derived from forcible conversions of Hindus. Go ahead if you like and give me your percentages of today’s Muslims in the Indo-Pak region who are Muslim due to Sufi (lol) preachers and to forcible conversions. What is your breakdown on this?

    And what a shame that ol buccaneer Muhammad did not have any Sufi preachers to help him convert the Christians of the Middle East to Mohammedanism in the 7th century. So so much blood letting could have been avoided as followers of Jesus surely would have gravitated to the so called final prophet.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    And this, boys and girls, is why we need to bring logic into our educational system as a core subject. Thankfully, I was exposed to it as a CS&E major.

    The Hindus of India look like the Muslims of India/Pakistan so most Muslims there are derived from forcible conversions of Hindus.
     
    The underlying assumption being that a person switches phenotype if they convert willingly versus if they are forced...I'll let everyone think on that one for a bit.

    What is your breakdown on this?
     
    Rough estimate...based on all academic readings on the subject with the following highlights:
    1) Shafi'i school being replaced by the Hanafi in administration
    2) Well documented work of the many Sufi teachers and orders
    3) The Afghan invasions coming very late in the game (mid 18th century) - and they were known for forced conversions
    4) The fact that an overwhelming number of Indians chose to remain Hindu even under complete Mughal domination

    A super-majority (of those that converted) are easily willing converts (now many of these would definitely be those who converted to gain a better social position or be relieved of tax burden). For this generalization, I appeal to this work "The Rise of Islam and the Bengal Frontier, 1204–1760" by Richard Eaton - the contents of it are online here (especially his discussion and analysis of the four theories of conversion in India):
    http://publishing.cdlib.org/ucpressebooks/view?docId=ft067n99v9&chunk.id=ch05&toc.depth=1&toc.id=ch05&brand=eschol

    "If Islamization had ever been a function of military or political force, one would expect that those areas exposed most intensively and over the longest period to rule by Muslim dynasties—that is, those that were most fully exposed to the “sword”—would today contain the greatest number of Muslims. Yet the opposite is the case, as those regions where the most dramatic Islamization occurred, such as eastern Bengal or western Punjab, lay on the fringes of Indo-Muslim rule, where the “sword” was weakest, and where brute force could have exerted the least influence. In such regions the first accurate census reports put the Muslim population at between 70 and 90 percent of the total, whereas in the heartland of Muslim rule in the upper Gangetic Plain—the domain of the Delhi Fort and the Taj Mahal, where Muslim regimes had ruled the most intensively and for the longest period of time—the Muslim population ranged from only 10 to 15 percent. In other words, in the subcontinent as a whole there is an inverse relationship between the degree of Muslim political penetration and the degree of Islamization. Even within Bengal this principle holds true."

    did not have any Sufi preachers
     
    His companions were the original Sufis, you can try to find any Sufi order that doesn't trace their chain back to one or more of them.

    Peace.

    I'll answer my own question; the Uwaisi order does (kind of) trace itself back to a man who was their contemporary, but never met the Prophet (pbuh) in person.
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  200. Andrei Martyanov [AKA "SmoothieX12"] says: • Website
    @Talha
    Sigh...you know, you have some very solid criticisms and then you bring out this straw-man nonsense based on Mr. Reilly totally misunderstanding an issue he has zero expertise in.

    determinism with their haram cause and effect
     
    I studied aqeedah (Islamic creed) under a mufti who was a direct student of the late Damascene scholar Shaykh Adib Kallas (ra) a remarkable theologian who was a master of this science (so I know a bit about what we believe): http://seekershub.org/blog/2009/10/shaykh-adib-kallas-died-today-october-21-2009-one-of-the-foremost-scholars-of-our-times/

    You are bringing out nonsense that Muslims deny observable cause and effect - what the Sunni Orthodox deny is that causality that exists outside the will of God in objects (in and of themselves or by their very nature). Thus, the belief is, while indeed through His omnipotence God creates both the cause and the effect and fuses the two together - through His wisdom He allows it to follow a usual pattern - while being able to break with the pattern at any time. What does this mean in practice? Not much, a Muslim chemist will carry on his work and observing that one chemical compound interacts predictably with another in a measured way, while believing internally that God is the true cause behind everything his eyes see and that He can miraculously suspend normal cause/effect relationship at any moment. Thus a virgin woman can give birth to a male child in Palestine somewhere two centuries ago without recourse to the necessary 'Y' chromosome.

    Note to readers: this is not up for debate, I am merely stating the position to free it from the off-base description insinuated above, feel free to guffaw at it all you want.

    And this is all at the Newtonian level - which is where Ibn Rushd (ra) and the rationalists were operating. Once you get down to the quantum level (I remember my intro to quantum theory in UCLA - blew my mind), all bets are off. Just try assuming a pre-determinant cause and effect - too bad, you are dealing with probabilities of results - nothing is set in stone. Inside the atom, Imam Ghazali (ra) and the Ashari-Maturidis get top billing:
    "Further, they agree that events in the world ate not strictly predictable. Both accept the idea that unexpected, unpredictable things can and do occur. According to Al-Ghazali's explanation, God is omnipotent and involved in the world at every moment and can, therefore, cause anything to happen. The Copenhagen Interpretation of quantum theory says that it is impossible to predict the exact behavior of an object based on physical laws. As a result, while one might expect a lead ball to fall when it is dropped, there is a definite possibility that the ball will rise instead. The independent existence of teal objects is doubted by both al-Ghazali and the Copenhagen Interpretation. "
    Causality Then and Now: Al-Ghazali and Quantum Theory
    http://www.ghazali.org/articles/harding-V10N2-Summer-93.pdf

    "As the theory of the atom, quantum mechanics is perhaps the most successful theory in the history of science. It enables physicists, chemists, and technicians to calculate and predict the outcome of a vast number of experiments and to create new and advanced technology based on the insight into the behavior of atomic objects. But it is also a theory that challenges our imagination. It seems to violate some fundamental principles of classical physics, principles that eventually have become a part of western common sense since the rise of the modern worldview in the Renaissance."
    "Apparently, we are living in a quantum world since everything is constituted by atomic and subatomic particles. Hence classical physics seems merely to be a useful approximation to a world which is quantum mechanical on all scales. Such a view, which many modern physicists support, can be called quantum fundamentalism (Zinkernagel forthcoming). It can be defined as a position containing two components: (1) everything in the Universe is fundamentally of quantum nature (the ontological component); and (2) everything in the Universe is ultimately describable in quantum mechanical terms (the epistemological component)"
    http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/qm-copenhagen/

    Peace.

    I really appreciate your excursion into quantum mechanics but FYI I do have books by Michio Kaku or Greene (namely Hidden Reality), among many. But me, being a very simple man and living by “approximations” and sometimes generalizations, this is by far more important (and pressing) manifestations of Islam, than any intellectual exercises:

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Dr. Kaku is awesome and his articles and even videos are generally very accessible to the majority of the public. So I'm confused, if you are already well-aware of the (post-1930's) problems in the assumptions of the foundations of deterministic causality - why do you keep bringing this up as a tool to try to point out Muslim backwardness (this is the second thread where you have done so)?

    ...I'm not really expecting an answer, this is more rhetorical than anything...

    As far as the video, meh...you want me to validate that stupidity? Kick them out! Thank God it is Europe, hopefully there will simply be deportations and not pogroms.

    Anyway, you have my respect and thanks for keeping it civil.

    May God preserve you and yours.

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  201. Marcus says:
    @Talha
    Hey Marcus,

    There may have indeed been fatwas against her, but are you saying there was actually a fatwa from a legitimate qualified scholar that stated she could be killed with impunity by anyone - I would have to see this to believe it. Or are you saying the fatwa was calling on the government to stop and/or punish her - this is more likely. You have to keep in mind what fatwas are; they are juristic opinions coming from a body of scholars that fill a quasi-legislative/judicial role in society. Just as in our society, a judge can set down a judgement, but it must be executed by those with executive prerogative/privileges. The connection is explained by Mufti Musa Furber (db), with the example of a fatwa issued for wild-life protection in Indonesia:
    "Indonesia made a splash in 2014 when it issued a wildlife protection fatwa. A fatwa is, by its very nature, a non-binding opinion. A wildlife protection fatwa means nothing if it is not gazetted into legislation and then enforced. And it needs to be proactively enforced in order to be truly preventative – otherwise, it can be shrugged off as a business fine or risk."
    http://musafurber.com/2016/08/27/indonesian-man-arrested-650-pangolins-found-dead-freezers/

    For instance, historically, the Shafi'i scholars were formulating fatwa after fatwa on matters which were simply ignored by the ruling Abbasid authorities in lieu of the fatwas of the Hanafi school which they favored.


    The Muslims of the Indian subcontinent are heirs to the great traditions of the Dharmic civilizations, maybe they can rediscover these.
     
    Correct, much of the meditation, attainment of spiritual states through asceticism and rigor has already been absorbed into Sufi practices as much as can be allowed for. We discussed Imam Biruni (ra) and his balanced approach to viewing and evaluating these Dharmic traditions. This needs to be revived. I don't think many Muslims will convert to Hinduism (even less than any movement from Christianity toward Hinduism), you'll get a rare one here and there. I've personally met Hindu converts to Islam, never met one going the other way.

    Peace.

    Even defining Hinduism as a religion is tricky, you could say that all indigenous traditions of India were “Hindu,” so there’s never been any doctrine of conversion or apostasy. A Hindu could conceivably venerate Jesus, Muhammad, Moses etc., and indeed many have. The Rig Veda says “Truth is One, though the sages know it variously.” However in the late 19th century some nationalist-inspired movements formed which are trying to bring Muslims and Christians back into the fold, but it’s an uphill battle. The tolerant nature of paganism and polytheism puts it at disadvantage vis-a-vis monopolizing and aggressive Abrahamic faiths. Transition to Christianity might be easier for most Muslims outside of parts of the subcontinent, while I oppose all Abrahamic religions, I consider it the lesser of two evils. It’s hard to gain much traction with laws against proselytization and apostasy in most Muslim countries though.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey Marcus,


    Even defining Hinduism as a religion is tricky
     
    Or India as a 'nation' - it is more like Europe. I have a co-worker from Kerala - totally different customs, deities, and celebrations than other regions of India.

    which are trying to bring Muslims and Christians back into the fold
     
    Which is stupid, because as you stated - what's the point if everyone can reach the truth through their own path. Who cares as long as they leave you alone?

    The tolerant nature of paganism and polytheism puts it at disadvantage vis-a-vis monopolizing and aggressive Abrahamic faiths.
     
    It can be quite intolerant too, but I definitely acknowledge this strain. I would say polytheism is inherently inclusive (you got gods too? bring 'em!). The pagans of the Hijaz had lots of different idols (of the various regions of Arabia) in the Kabah. But then again, you have to square your polytheistic belief with the post atomic age of man - good luck. I don't know of any educated Hindu I have met that actually believes in the reality of that narrative (maybe some exist) in as much as I have met any Greeks that look to Mount Olympus for signs of Zeus.

    Transition to Christianity might be easier for most Muslims
     
    It is, but most become atheist or agnostic from my experience (growing up with tawhid generally seems to have a prophylactic effect with regards to a triune godhead concept) and searching around the web - and quite leftist actually.

    Peace.
    , @Sam Shama
    [The tolerant nature of paganism and polytheism puts it at disadvantage vis-a-vis monopolizing and aggressive Abrahamic faiths. ]
    Judaism isn't "monopolizing"; nor does it proselytise as I'm sure you know.
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  202. annamaria says:
    @KA
    1 Geller and Spencer’s work actually shaped Breivik’s ideas, Walt explains -

    http://mondoweiss.net/2011/07/geller-and-spencers-work-actually-shaped-breiviks-ideas-walt-explains/#sthash.00Yy4NvR.dpuf


    Jewish Communal Fund, a mainstream philanthropic fund that describes itself as “dedicated to the welfare and security of the Jewish community at home and abroad,” has funded Geller’s work. JCF’s annual tax filings show contributions of $30,000 in the 2012 tax year and $70,000 in the 2013 tax year, the last tax year for which filings are available, directed to Geller’s AFDI [American Freedom Defense Initiative].

    - http://mondoweiss.net/2015/11/jewish-communal-islamophobia/#sthash.OHTNvqLN.dpuf


    The Clarion Fund, an offshoot of the Jewish Orthodox fundamentalist Aish HaTorah, gained notoriety for its distribution of the film “Obsession: Radical Islam’s War Against the West” to 28 million swing state voters before the 2008 presidential election between then-Sen. Barack Obama, an Illinois Democrat, and Sen. John McCain, a Republican in Arizona. The film’s central thesis was that fundamentalist Islam is as bad as, if not worse than, Nazism. -

    http://mondoweiss.net/2015/11/jewish-communal-islamophobia/#sthash.OHTNvqLN.dpuf

    She ( Geller) has used her celebrity, boosted by Fox News (a principal player in the Islamophobia industry), to create cross-continental activist networks against Islam. Robert Spencer, Geller’s partner in crime, is also a focus of Lean’s. “People such as Robert Spencer, Daniel Pipes, or Martin Kramer, all online Islamophobes, spread each others’ postings and write-ups to their own audience,” writes Lean. “With each new click of the mouse, the story grows.”

    -http://mondoweiss.net/2012/10/an-industry-built-on-hate-how-the-right-wing-successfully-brought-anti-muslim-bigotry-into-the-american-mainstream/#sthash.OC92gYF1.dpuf


    But Spencer has never studied Islam. He holds a master’s degree in religious studies related to early Christianity from the University of North Carolina.

    - http://mondoweiss.net/2012/09/fraudsters-new-report-highlights-how-islamophobes-have-no-expertise-in-the-religion-they-claim-to-know/#sthash.hWZ36en8.dpuf

    Spencer coauthored book with Geller,hates Obama's support for Palestinian state .


    * Spencer publishes a book entitled Stealth Jihad: How Radical Islam is Subverting America without Guns or Bombs in 2008.

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/08/24/islamophobia-in-america/


    Besides providing the initial energy for the Islamophobic crusade, conservative elements from within the pro-Israel lobby bankrolled the network’s apparatus, enabling it to influence the national debate. One philanthropist in particular has provided the beneficence to propel the campaign ahead. He is a little-known Los Angeles-area software security entrepreneur named Aubrey Chernick, who operates out of a security consulting firm blandly named the National Center for Crisis and Continuity Coordination. A former trustee of the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, which has served as a think tank for the American Israeli Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), a frontline lobbying group for Israel, Chernick is said to be worth $750 million.


    Through the Fairbrook Foundation, a private entity he and his wife Joyce control, Chernick has provided funding to groups ranging from the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) and CAMERA, a right-wing, pro-Israel, media-watchdog outfit, to violent Israeli settlers living on Palestinian lands and figures like the pseudo-academic author Robert Spencer, who is largely responsible for popularizing conspiracy theories about the coming conquest of the West by Muslim fanatics seeking to establish a worldwide caliphate.


    According to the website Politico, almost $1 million in donations from Chernick has been steered to Spencer’s Jihad Watch group through David Horowitz’s Freedom Center.

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2010/12/20/the-great-fear-2/

    Thank you for the factual material.
    The bellicose Judaism is no different than the bellicose Islam or bellicose Christianity. The ziocons’ deeds are similar to the deeds of Inquisition during Reformation years; exercise of alleged ideological purity through inflicting death and sufferings to “others.”

    It is impossible to overlook the names of main ideologues and cheerleaders of the ongoing tragedy in the Middle East: The predominance of the names of Israel-firsters and Zionists speaks for itself.
    The US ziocons have managed to bring the Middle East problems into Europe and to saddle the EU with the bill for the US/Israel/EU misadventures (war crimes, actually) that have destroyed the formally functioning Middle East states.
    The AIPAC, ADL, Horowitz’s Freedom Center and such are filled with lunatics whose main accomplishment is the rivers of blood and mountains of flesh of innocent civilians, including tens if not hundreds of thousands of children, in the Middle East. — What a ghastly monument to Zionism.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    The AIPAC, ADL, Horowitz’s Freedom Center and such are filled with lunatics whose main accomplishment is the rivers of blood and mountains of flesh of innocent civilians, including tens if not hundreds of thousands of children, in the Middle East. — What a ghastly monument to Zionism.
     
    Again and again, I reiterate--this collection of war criminals wouldn't be possible without Evangelical Old Testament right, which considers itself to be the only true, 100% USDA approved Americans. This is the union made in hell. They also think of themselves as true Christians.
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  203. annamaria says:
    @KA
    1 America’s response to the 9/11 attacks augmented rather than defeated the jihadist threat, with the consequences of the Iraq war now being felt in terror-scarred France, President Francois Hollande said Sunday, as the US marked the 15th anniversary of the devastating attacks in New York and Washington, DC.

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/us-response-to-911-increased-global-terror-threat-hollande/

    In a late-night address to the nation, French President Francois Hollande linked the deadly "terrorist attack" in Nice to the conflict in Iraq and Syria -- and said France will intensify its military operations there in the aftermath of today's tragedy.
    http://abcnews.go.com/International/french-president-links-nice-attack-iraq-syria-conflict/story?id=40597252


    Who intentionally messed up post war Iraq ?

    2 "First, we didn’t invade Iraq to bring democracy — but once we overthrew Saddam, we had a view of what should follow,” Rice responded. “If Don and the Pentagon had done their job (after claiming the rights to lead post-war rebuilding—things might have turned out differently).”


    Powell replied by seconding Rice’s critique, saying “the boys in the band were brain dead.”

    “Doug and Paul claims they had a plan (turn Iraq and our Army over to Chalibi) and leave,” Powell wrote, appearing to reference Bush administration officials Doug Feith, Paul Wolfowitz, and the late Iraqi politician Ahmed Chalabi, who died last year.

    “43 knew what had to be done,” Powell continued, referring to President George W. Bush, “specifically rejected the Chalibi crowd and as you say the boys in the band were brain dead.”

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/christophermassie/rice-if-rumsfeld-pentagon-had-done-their-job-iraq-might-have?utm_term=.rkkPaQJKzg#.py0kW3Ql1b

    4 Didn't Micheal Ledeen ask for more chaos and wasn't it him who demand that the cauldron of destruction be unleashed on ME as fast as possible when chaos was predicted by sane people?

    3 Who ordered to foment mess Iraq ? We should ask Brenenr .



    He should call Hollande and let him know how disappointed he was and how Hollande just provided succor to terror. Spencer and Geller would be very upset with Hollande now- how is it possible For Hollande to ignore all their pleas writings and education?
    ---

    Yes, Micheal Ledeen, of Operation Gladio fame.
    Ledeed, similar to the Kagans (see their exploits in Ukraine) has never seen any problems in embracing Nazism.

    “The name Gladio, (or ‘Sword’ in Italian) was technically the name given to their operations in Italy, but has since come by extension to stand for the phenomenon as a whole. Evidence [was] meticulously documented by Swiss historian Daniele Ganser in his 2004 book “NATO’s Secret Armies”…The evidence contained in Ganser’s book, of terrorism directed against the people by secret armies funded and organised by NATO and answerable to deep state elements within NATO, MI6 and the CIA rather than the respective governments is so shocking that the initial reaction of most people would be to reject it….
    The terrorist bombings proved to be a means by which Pentagon planners were able to take their own (imaginary or delusional) fears about the rise of the Left and turn them into very real and concrete fears for the populace….Among the most far-reaching findings on the secret war, as seen in the analysis, ranges the fact that the stay-behind network had served as a tool to spread fear amongst the population also in the absence of an invasion. The secret armies in some cases functioned as an almost perfect manipulation system that transported the fears of high-ranking military officers in the Pentagon and NATO to the populations in Western Europe. … brutality and terror was employed to control populations on both sides of the Iron Curtain….”

    https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Operation_Gladio

    Yellow Cake and Black Shirt: Michael Ledeen linked to “Gladio”

    http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104×4081269

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  204. Andrei Martyanov [AKA "SmoothieX12"] says: • Website
    @annamaria
    Thank you for the factual material.
    The bellicose Judaism is no different than the bellicose Islam or bellicose Christianity. The ziocons' deeds are similar to the deeds of Inquisition during Reformation years; exercise of alleged ideological purity through inflicting death and sufferings to "others."

    It is impossible to overlook the names of main ideologues and cheerleaders of the ongoing tragedy in the Middle East: The predominance of the names of Israel-firsters and Zionists speaks for itself.
    The US ziocons have managed to bring the Middle East problems into Europe and to saddle the EU with the bill for the US/Israel/EU misadventures (war crimes, actually) that have destroyed the formally functioning Middle East states.
    The AIPAC, ADL, Horowitz’s Freedom Center and such are filled with lunatics whose main accomplishment is the rivers of blood and mountains of flesh of innocent civilians, including tens if not hundreds of thousands of children, in the Middle East. -- What a ghastly monument to Zionism.

    The AIPAC, ADL, Horowitz’s Freedom Center and such are filled with lunatics whose main accomplishment is the rivers of blood and mountains of flesh of innocent civilians, including tens if not hundreds of thousands of children, in the Middle East. — What a ghastly monument to Zionism.

    Again and again, I reiterate–this collection of war criminals wouldn’t be possible without Evangelical Old Testament right, which considers itself to be the only true, 100% USDA approved Americans. This is the union made in hell. They also think of themselves as true Christians.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous Smith
    I totally agree, Smoothie!

    Jews can only flourish in nations that are predominately Christian...that's why they invented Christianity, so that they would have a large and permanent Goyim host entity to feed off of. They created the Scofield Bible so that they could dig-in and jam their proboscis even deeper into the Christian host nation, intensifying their blood orgy.
    , @annamaria
    Agree
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  205. iffen says:
    @Sam Shama
    Yeah it is happening slowly. I had noted the IDF general staff's mood previously:
    http://www.unz.com/article/fifty-one-foreign-service-officers-cant-be-wrong/?highlight=IDF#comment-1464000

    The key is to not elicit a sharp reaction from Netanyahu but chip away. My point re: 1948 was simple. If the objective is to get the Pals a livable deal, start with 1967, not 1948, [which does not preclude compensation for those displaced in 1948, only that arguments for a RoR won't be of any use]

    start with 1967, not 1948

    What is special about 1967? Why not 2016? Why not 2025? If one accepts the 1967 borders, what is the rationale for not accepting “any” additional annexations at any time, including the future?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    What is your preferred course of action? One that you think has the greatest chance of success in actually getting implemented
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  206. Marcus says:
    @Talha
    Hey Marcus,

    We studied this episode in my Byzantine History course and yes, there is evidence that it was inspired by the edict of Caliph Yazid II - which was repealed by his successors:
    http://lingualeo.com/es/jungle/the-iconoclastic-edict-caliph-yazid-ii-ad-721-by-aa-vasiliev-432970#/page/1

    Think of all the great Orthodox icons and mosaics that were lost
     
    Correct and Daesh is carrying out a destruction that lays to waste centuries worth of work of cooperative human endeavor to preserve these things.

    Peace.

    Of course that wasn’t the only instance of Christian destruction, there was the Reformation and the anti-pagan persecution that looted or destroyed temples. http://www.patheos.com/blogs/anxiousbench/2014/07/the-breaking-of-images/ However, I don’t think you can compare it to Mohammedanism (or Judaism) since Christianity isn’t legalistic by nature, its antihuman elements aren’t codified as integral to the faith, hence great sculpture and portraiture (let alone music) could be reborn in Europe, but never in the Muslim world. Christians could eventually exhume the great Greco-Roman civilizations and then those of the rest of the world to light for all to admire, whereas most Muslims are ignorant or even contemptuous of their direct ancestors in Egypt or what’s now Pakistan.

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    • Agree: Andrei Martyanov
    • Replies: @Talha

    most Muslims are ignorant or even contemptuous of their direct ancestors in Egypt or what’s now Pakistan.
     
    I would agree, but is that inherent in Islamic ethos or the politics of the age and the region? For instance I've never heard this kind of talk from Persians or Malays or Javanese who are quite Muslim and quite aware of their pre-Islamic heritage and have preserved aspects their origins. The Persians are quite well known, but taking the Javanese for example, they have preserved numerous Hindu and Buddhist temples and even their unique written language survived until the Dutch introduced Latin script. And yet the original Javanese script is preserved specifically by the ulema:
    "The name kawi in Javanese means ‘language of the poets’ and is an indication that it was a literary language, influenced by Sanskrit. Its use was prohibited under the Japanese occupation of Indonesia during World War II (1942-1945). Today, it is mostly used by religious scholars."
    http://aboutworldlanguages.com/javanese

    Or even their unique martial arts of silat...

    And even their mosques are built in a home-grown style completely unique to their people:
    https://www.google.com/search?q=javanese+mosque&espv=2&biw=1344&bih=791&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjdqIee55HPAhUSz2MKHfpzDSUQsAQIKQ

    Contrast that with many of the mosques in India which seem like they were built elsewhere and transported there when compared to native architecture.

    Peace.

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  207. Talha says:
    @Clyde
    The Hindus of India look like the Muslims of India/Pakistan so most Muslims there are derived from forcible conversions of Hindus. Go ahead if you like and give me your percentages of today's Muslims in the Indo-Pak region who are Muslim due to Sufi (lol) preachers and to forcible conversions. What is your breakdown on this?

    And what a shame that ol buccaneer Muhammad did not have any Sufi preachers to help him convert the Christians of the Middle East to Mohammedanism in the 7th century. So so much blood letting could have been avoided as followers of Jesus surely would have gravitated to the so called final prophet.

    And this, boys and girls, is why we need to bring logic into our educational system as a core subject. Thankfully, I was exposed to it as a CS&E major.

    The Hindus of India look like the Muslims of India/Pakistan so most Muslims there are derived from forcible conversions of Hindus.

    The underlying assumption being that a person switches phenotype if they convert willingly versus if they are forced…I’ll let everyone think on that one for a bit.

    What is your breakdown on this?

    Rough estimate…based on all academic readings on the subject with the following highlights:
    1) Shafi’i school being replaced by the Hanafi in administration
    2) Well documented work of the many Sufi teachers and orders
    3) The Afghan invasions coming very late in the game (mid 18th century) – and they were known for forced conversions
    4) The fact that an overwhelming number of Indians chose to remain Hindu even under complete Mughal domination

    A super-majority (of those that converted) are easily willing converts (now many of these would definitely be those who converted to gain a better social position or be relieved of tax burden). For this generalization, I appeal to this work “The Rise of Islam and the Bengal Frontier, 1204–1760″ by Richard Eaton – the contents of it are online here (especially his discussion and analysis of the four theories of conversion in India):

    http://publishing.cdlib.org/ucpressebooks/view?docId=ft067n99v9&chunk.id=ch05&toc.depth=1&toc.id=ch05&brand=eschol

    “If Islamization had ever been a function of military or political force, one would expect that those areas exposed most intensively and over the longest period to rule by Muslim dynasties—that is, those that were most fully exposed to the “sword”—would today contain the greatest number of Muslims. Yet the opposite is the case, as those regions where the most dramatic Islamization occurred, such as eastern Bengal or western Punjab, lay on the fringes of Indo-Muslim rule, where the “sword” was weakest, and where brute force could have exerted the least influence. In such regions the first accurate census reports put the Muslim population at between 70 and 90 percent of the total, whereas in the heartland of Muslim rule in the upper Gangetic Plain—the domain of the Delhi Fort and the Taj Mahal, where Muslim regimes had ruled the most intensively and for the longest period of time—the Muslim population ranged from only 10 to 15 percent. In other words, in the subcontinent as a whole there is an inverse relationship between the degree of Muslim political penetration and the degree of Islamization. Even within Bengal this principle holds true.”

    did not have any Sufi preachers

    His companions were the original Sufis, you can try to find any Sufi order that doesn’t trace their chain back to one or more of them.

    Peace.

    I’ll answer my own question; the Uwaisi order does (kind of) trace itself back to a man who was their contemporary, but never met the Prophet (pbuh) in person.

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    • Replies: @Clyde
    Richard Eaton presents the sunny side of the Islamic sword of conversion. I don't believe him and can find people who don't go along with this. Jizya also forces conversions.

    But anyway with my original question. Converted peacefully (allegedly no compulsion in Islam...lol) or via the sword, with all the Muslims in India/Pakistan/Bangladesh. What percentage have Hindu/other ancestry? Must be at least 85%.
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  208. Talha says:
    @Marcus
    Even defining Hinduism as a religion is tricky, you could say that all indigenous traditions of India were "Hindu," so there's never been any doctrine of conversion or apostasy. A Hindu could conceivably venerate Jesus, Muhammad, Moses etc., and indeed many have. The Rig Veda says "Truth is One, though the sages know it variously." However in the late 19th century some nationalist-inspired movements formed which are trying to bring Muslims and Christians back into the fold, but it's an uphill battle. The tolerant nature of paganism and polytheism puts it at disadvantage vis-a-vis monopolizing and aggressive Abrahamic faiths. Transition to Christianity might be easier for most Muslims outside of parts of the subcontinent, while I oppose all Abrahamic religions, I consider it the lesser of two evils. It's hard to gain much traction with laws against proselytization and apostasy in most Muslim countries though.

    Hey Marcus,

    Even defining Hinduism as a religion is tricky

    Or India as a ‘nation’ – it is more like Europe. I have a co-worker from Kerala – totally different customs, deities, and celebrations than other regions of India.

    which are trying to bring Muslims and Christians back into the fold

    Which is stupid, because as you stated – what’s the point if everyone can reach the truth through their own path. Who cares as long as they leave you alone?

    The tolerant nature of paganism and polytheism puts it at disadvantage vis-a-vis monopolizing and aggressive Abrahamic faiths.

    It can be quite intolerant too, but I definitely acknowledge this strain. I would say polytheism is inherently inclusive (you got gods too? bring ‘em!). The pagans of the Hijaz had lots of different idols (of the various regions of Arabia) in the Kabah. But then again, you have to square your polytheistic belief with the post atomic age of man – good luck. I don’t know of any educated Hindu I have met that actually believes in the reality of that narrative (maybe some exist) in as much as I have met any Greeks that look to Mount Olympus for signs of Zeus.

    Transition to Christianity might be easier for most Muslims

    It is, but most become atheist or agnostic from my experience (growing up with tawhid generally seems to have a prophylactic effect with regards to a triune godhead concept) and searching around the web – and quite leftist actually.

    Peace.

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  209. @Andrei Martyanov

    The AIPAC, ADL, Horowitz’s Freedom Center and such are filled with lunatics whose main accomplishment is the rivers of blood and mountains of flesh of innocent civilians, including tens if not hundreds of thousands of children, in the Middle East. — What a ghastly monument to Zionism.
     
    Again and again, I reiterate--this collection of war criminals wouldn't be possible without Evangelical Old Testament right, which considers itself to be the only true, 100% USDA approved Americans. This is the union made in hell. They also think of themselves as true Christia