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Israel Takes On the First Amendment
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I always enjoy reading the Washington Post each morning even though it drives my blood pressure up to stratospheric levels. Its embrace of the inexorability of a fabulous new Camelot-like Clinton White House is thrilling to witness as it unfolds, but it is the promotion of the neocon Israeli narrative that is most exciting. On October 23rd, the op-ed section outdid itself with a piece “Free speech is flunking out on campus” by Catherine Rampell, who described the increasingly sorry state of first amendment rights on politically correct American university campuses. Blacks, LGBTers, women and victims of sexual assault were all identified as constituencies demanding “safe spaces” resulting in curtailment of free speech but somehow Israel and its supporters screaming anti-Semitism at every drop of the hat were left out in spite of the fact that Jews on campus have been both extremely and successfully active in taking political action to pressure universities whenever they claim to feel “threatened.”

The conflict between the Israelis and Palestinians has again reached a boiling point. Palestinian frustration over Israel’s fifty year occupation of the West Bank and its continued theft of Arab land and resources has produced an uprising of mostly young Palestinians that is being called in some circles a new intifada. The conflict is playing out with knives and bullets in Palestine and Israel but it is also being fought internationally in the media, through cultural and economic boycotts and, most pointedly, at many colleges and universities. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu realizes that the pressure on Israel is, for the first time, serious and has not hesitated to lie outrageously about the slaughter of Jews in Europe during the Second World War. According to Netanyahu, the Palestinian Grand Mufti of Jerusalem gave the idea to Hitler, presumably justifying whatever the Israelis of today choose to do to suppress the current unrest.

Israel has inevitably responded brutally, producing a death toll of significantly more Palestinians than Israelis. Netanyahu has been referring to the protesters as terrorists and has issued new rules of engagement which permit soldiers to shoot stone throwers. Israeli plainclothes soldiers and police have been identified as infiltrating the protesters while pretending to be Palestinians, urging the young Arabs to hurl stones before pulling out concealed handguns to beat protesters, shoot them and make arrests.

In Gaza five teenagers were shot dead by Israeli soldiers for the crime of coming too close to the separation barrier, which government press releases described as the “frontier.” Killing teenagers in Gaza is a bit like shooting fish in a barrel as they are fenced in and have in reality no way to actually confront the Israeli border guards. On the day following the killing of the boys a mother and infant were killed in an Israeli airstrike. Within Israel an Eritrean was even mistakenly killed by Israeli police because he was reportedly acting oddly.

Because of a hostile media’s self-censorship buttressed by an unfriendly political class, here in the United States one of the few places in which the Palestinians can exercise something like free expression relating to their national aspirations is on college campuses. Israel and its powerful supporters understand that gap in their ability to control the narrative and are doing everything possible to shut down the option.

Friends of Israel, as ever, work from the same playbook orchestrated by the large donors who fund them. They claim that anti-Israel protests on campus to include even letters to the editor in college newspapers constitute a “threatening environment” for Jewish students. The argument is based on a fundamental falsehood, which is that criticism of the actions of a foreign government is equivalent to hatred for the dominant religion of that country, that religion is exactly the same as nationality. Applying that notion liberally would mean that criticism of any country where there is de facto or de jure a dominant state religion would be unacceptable speech. If applied liberally countries spanning the globe would be exempt from criticism, to include not only Israel but also Saudi Arabia and Iran.

But this is not about Christian or Muslim sensitivities. It is all about protection against insult for Jews and it relies on a perception of perpetual victimhood, which can be and is produced on demand to stifle any criticism that might be regarded by some as objectionable. Indeed, if calls for violence directed against Jews as a race or religion were occurring pleas for some form of mitigation might have some very slim cogency, but campus protest movements have very carefully and deliberately avoided falling into that trap. And it might also be pointed that on many campuses a considerable proportion of the dissenters are themselves Jews who are appalled by Israeli behavior.

Criticism of Israel does not just include complaining about the policies of that country’s government. It also has inevitably involved the so-called BDS movement, “boycott-divest-and sanction” which aims to make Israel pay an economic and social price for its behavior, similar to the pressure that was once directed against apartheid South Africa. This second narrative has been cleverly woven into the complaints about “harassment,” labeling any campus calls for BDS ipso facto anti-Semitic and “hurtful.” School authorities have generally been accommodating to claims made by Jewish groups that students are feeling “threatened,” obstructing and intimidating critics of Israel and denying tenure to faculty members who are seen as troublemakers. They have looked the other way as organizations like Canary Mission began exposing college students on its website who are reported to be “anti-Freedom, anti-American and anti-Semitic” with the deliberate intention of damaging their future employment prospects.

Between January 2014 and June 2015 there were more than 300 incidents on 65 college campuses in 24 states involving intimidation or prevention of protests against Israel. Students at Northeastern University distributing flyers at dorms were interrogated by campus police and had their group suspended by college authorities. Some were disciplined. And faculty members have also been on the receiving end, with Steven Salaita at the University of Illinois, denied a teaching position after he sent tweets complaining about Israel’s 2014 assault against Gaza which killed more than 500 children.

Richard Blum, a member of the University of California’s regents, has demanded that students who criticize Israel be suspended for expelled because they are “intolerant,” exhibiting anti-Semitic bigotry. Blum is the multimillionaire husband of California Senator Dianne Feinstein. Feinstein has also hinted that she could have the government look into possible violations occurring at federally funded institutions. The definition of bigotry being promoted by Blum and Feinberg conflates criticism of Israel with anti-Semitism and includes in its purview what are increasingly being referred to as “speech crimes.” The university regents are currently considering new language for their statement of policy against intolerance on campus but are under intense pressure from Jewish organizations that are lobbying them aggressively.

Many of the groups involved in the harassment of pro-Palestinian demonstrators are perhaps not surprisingly not indigenous to the colleges themselves. Stand With Us (SWU) and “Campus Maccabees” are national organizations well-funded by billionaire Sheldon Adelson and SWU has close ties to the Israeli government as does the lawfare center Shurat HaDin, which has filed lawsuits against Muslim and progressive groups on campus. Predictably, Congress and state legislatures have gotten into the act, seeking to pass laws that make it impossible for colleges and universities supported by taxpayer money to fund student groups that call for boycotts. The bills are drafted in terms of rejecting all selective boycotts but they are really all about Israel and everyone knows it. The fact that advocating voluntary boycotts is very much a part of one’s First Amendment rights appears to be irrelevant.

How to deal with it? The brouhaha is impossible to ignore as the advocates for Israel are relentlessly in one’s face even when the argument is being constructed in a restrained fashion and purposely framed so as not to offend Jews. It is consequently necessary to disarticulate being Israeli from being Jewish. Judaism is a religion and Israel is a foreign country. And it is important to recognize that legitimate direct criticism of Jewish groups for their involvement in pressuring universities should not itself be off limits. If the organizations self-identify as Jewish and they are attempting to restrict the discussion on Israel contrary to the First Amendment they become fair game. The First Amendment exists, after all, to permit free and open discussion of all issues and if some Jewish individuals and organizations are mobilizing to deny fundamental American rights on behalf of a foreign nation the rest of us have the responsibility to object forcibly and to make transparent just who is doing what to whom.

 
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  1. Art says:

    “Blum is the multimillionaire husband of California Senator Dianne Feinstein.”

    Those two were big time profiteers from the Iraq war – she voted her husband war contracts. As powerful Big Jews – they have the ability to do this in broad daylight – no one of substance has the guts to publicly challenge them.

    She is the number one gun grabbing Jew in America. She is a biggie on the senate intelligence committee – you can bet that there is not one US secret that the King of the Jews – Little Davie Netanyahu = does not know.

    Those two work 24/7/365 for the Jew tribe and for Israel. There is no American ideal that they will not trash. Clearly our Bill of Rights is meaningless to them.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Junior

    Clearly our Bill of Rights is meaningless to them.
     
    And clearly this article is meaningless to you. You might want to re-read the part about "Judaism is a religion."

    She is the number one gun grabbing Jew in America.
     
    And did you know that the number one not-gonna-let'em-grab-our-guns President of the NRA after Charlton Heston was a Jew, Sandra Froman and that she estimated that about 10% of the NRA Board of Directors are Jewish?

    Stop acting like an anti-semitic idiot.

    http://www.jweekly.com/article/full/26661/top-gun/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandra_Froman

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  2. RobinG says:

    Phil,

    Thanks for spotlighting this issue. In the 1st line of last paragraph, shouldn’t that be supporters (not critics) of Israel?

    The campus SJP are already bending over backwards to stipulate that their criticism is of Zionist Israel, not Judaism. I don’t know what more “disarticulation” they could do. Maybe that admonition is for the hate-spewing commenters (the ones who hate Jews, Muslims, Arabs, Africans, Latinos, Blacks, etc., or all of the above) who circle like marmorated stink bugs around this site.

    Read More
  3. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:

    The brouhaha is impossible to ignore as the critics of Israel are relentlessly in one’s face even when the argument is being constructed in a restrained fashion and purposely framed so as not to offend Jews.

    Mr. Giraldi, I think that the word “critics” was meant to say “proponents” or “advocates” of Israel.

    Read More
  4. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:

    Great article, Mr. Giraldi! And I agree completely that the way to battle it is by making that distinction between the Jewish religion and Israel, or between the religion and the political ideology of Zionism.

    And it is important to recognize that legitimate direct criticism of Jewish groups for their involvement in pressuring universities should not itself be off limits. If the organizations self-identify as Jewish and they are attempting to restrict the discussion on Israel contrary to the First Amendment they become fair game.

    They DEFINITELY are fair game for criticism, but I feel that ESPECIALLY when criticizing these self-identifying Jewish groups it is even MORE important to make sure that that the separation of Church and State is made PERFECTLY clear in the criticism so as not to fall into their game of attempting to conflate the two. The key is not allowing the discussion to even start off with the false premise being accepted. It’s a false-narrative which Zionists propagate that Jewish equals Israel or that Judaism equals Zionism and they have already won if it’s accepted as truth.

    Read More
  5. Clyde says:

    Cutting through all the hoity-toity, “I am so offended” by them Jews nonsense here…… The obvious bottom line here is that the Israeli Jews have the balls to defend their nation from murderous Muslims. While Europe/Germany welcomes the Muslim invasion from Syria in the South and other failed Muslim states. How about that gynocracy called Sweden inviting them in by the boatloads?

    There is no imperialism like Muslim imperialism. Just examine the historical record. Europe beat back their invading armies in Tours, Vienna, Spain and other occasions only to knuckle under today.

    Read More
    • Replies: @geokat62

    There is no imperialism like Muslim imperialism.
     
    Had your coreligionists not decided to make a Clean Break and remake the ME by regime changing the Zionist projects's enemies, these Muslim refugees would not have moved an inch (but you knew that already).

    So, isn't it more accurate to write "There is no imperialism like Zionist imperialism"?
    , @ISmellBagels
    Typical American idiot. They are many. Has no clue. Ever wonder how we got to this point?
    , @Junior

    The obvious bottom line here is that the Israeli Jews have the balls to defend their nation from murderous Muslims.
     
    Another one that is trying to shift the blame of conflict in Israel to religion. Those "murderous Muslims", as you call them, were getting along just fine with the Jewish people that lived near them until their land was stolen from them to make the Zionist state of Israel. While I agree that ALL religions have been the cause of untold murder and atrocities, your inferring of the Palestinian's Muslim religion as being the reason for the conflict in Israel is a blatant lie.

    If all Muslims are so "murderous" towards Judaism then why does Iran have the second largest Jewish population in the Middle East? If all Muslims are so "murderous" then why aren't there 2 billion Muslims going on a killing rampage across the world? You need to learn how to focus your blame, drop the hate, and stop acting like a bigoted idiot.

    "Noting the behaviors of some Muslims in Muslim-majority countries might leave the impression that most Muslims and most Muslim leaders endorse intolerance and persecution. Nothing could be further from the truth."

    "Most Muslims in most countries oppose violence in the name of Islam. For example, according to a 2009 Pew survey, in Pakistan, for example, 87 percent of Muslims hold that suicide bombing can never be justified (up from 35 percent in just 2004); 74 percent of Turkish Muslims and 78 percent of American Muslims concurred, and we have reason to believe that number to be higher today. Only 1 percent of American Muslims think suicide bombings are often justified, and only 7 percent think they are sometimes justified. I suspect, if suicide bombings were not so closely associated with Islam in most people's minds, a similar number of non-Muslim Americans would think they were sometimes justified. "

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kelly-james-clark/muslims-for-peace_b_2441676.html

    , @bunga
    Please defend. Keep on defending your tribes from murderous Muslim.

    Please can you spare the world ,US,the Congress ,Media,Movie, School and the Pentagon, and the taxpayers from Germany to UK,Australia,North America,and New Zealand
    ?

    Haven't we done enough for Jews from 1917 till today?

    Can we now take care of opur problem without taking your interests in account at home and in the broader world outside?
    How can we keep on supporting the parasites?
  6. Tom Welsh says:

    Zionists and other extremist Jews have a whole arsenal of sophistry when it comes to getting their way. One of the things that has always irritated me beyond measure is the very concept of Jewishness.

    Compare the condition of being Jewish with the condition of being British, or Japanese, or Catholic, or even a US citizen. Some of those names denote nationality; some denote genetic origin; and one (Catholic) denotes religious affiliation.

    Now, where does Jewishness fit in to this classification? Well, everywhere and nowhere! There is literally no other category in human experience that is comparable with Jewishness.

    On the one hand, it is supposed to be a racial identity – which presumably has clearcut genetic markers. Yet we are told that many people who call themselves Jewish are of European or central Asian genetic origin; their ancestors never came anywhere near Palestine. (Whereas many of today’s “Palestinians” may have distinct Jewish genetic traces). Well, OK, it is argued – that doesn’t matter, as they are Jewish by religion. Then again, many people who call themselves Jewish are atheist or agnostic; some may even have converted to another religion. Finally, we come down to the “cultural” definition which is a kind of semantic safety net. No one can prove that a given person is not “culturally Jewish”, because that condition is so vaguely defined.

    So we end up with a situation in which any criticism of Jews, or even of the state of Israel, is met with shrieks of “racism” and “anti-Semitism”. Yet the state of Israel claims to be a Jewish state – a claim such as no other nation on Earth could make without being criticized as racist. Moreover, it claims that all Jews, wherever they live, are citizens of Israel. Where does that leave those Jews who serve other nations in prominent positions, such as senior politicians and civil servants or senior military officers? Would someone with a Russian or Chinese passport – or even a British one – be permitted to work in the White House, the State Department, or at senior levels in the Pentagon? Hell no! Yet Jewish people do all of those things, and no one is in the slightest concerned.

    I don’t make these remarks in any spirit of hostility towards Israel or Jews in general. I am fully aware of how large a proportion of our species’ intellectual and creative cutting edge they make up. I am simply surprised at the gross inconsistency of established attitudes.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hawkeye451
    What we see here are three hobbies; judaism (the practice of rituals generally referred to as religion), jewishness (identification with a group whose hobby was once judaism, but not necessarily practising the hobby), and zionism (the assumption that one's jewishness confers title to land occupied by those whose ancestors took up another hobby, e.g. islam).

    My advice for those whose hobby is islam is to let their membership of Islam FC lapse and join Zion FC (assuming they won't be black-balled).
    , @Sherman
    Nobody in Israel has ever claimed that "all Jews, wherever they live, are citizens of Israel".

    Israeli law states that Jews around the world are entitled to Israeli citizenship if they choose to live in Israel.

    Big difference.
  7. @Junior
    @Philip Giraldi

    The brouhaha is impossible to ignore as the critics of Israel are relentlessly in one’s face even when the argument is being constructed in a restrained fashion and purposely framed so as not to offend Jews.
     
    Mr. Giraldi, I think that the word "critics" was meant to say "proponents" or "advocates" of Israel.

    Corrected thanks!

    Read More
  8. @Tom Welsh
    Zionists and other extremist Jews have a whole arsenal of sophistry when it comes to getting their way. One of the things that has always irritated me beyond measure is the very concept of Jewishness.

    Compare the condition of being Jewish with the condition of being British, or Japanese, or Catholic, or even a US citizen. Some of those names denote nationality; some denote genetic origin; and one (Catholic) denotes religious affiliation.

    Now, where does Jewishness fit in to this classification? Well, everywhere and nowhere! There is literally no other category in human experience that is comparable with Jewishness.

    On the one hand, it is supposed to be a racial identity - which presumably has clearcut genetic markers. Yet we are told that many people who call themselves Jewish are of European or central Asian genetic origin; their ancestors never came anywhere near Palestine. (Whereas many of today's "Palestinians" may have distinct Jewish genetic traces). Well, OK, it is argued - that doesn't matter, as they are Jewish by religion. Then again, many people who call themselves Jewish are atheist or agnostic; some may even have converted to another religion. Finally, we come down to the "cultural" definition which is a kind of semantic safety net. No one can prove that a given person is not "culturally Jewish", because that condition is so vaguely defined.

    So we end up with a situation in which any criticism of Jews, or even of the state of Israel, is met with shrieks of "racism" and "anti-Semitism". Yet the state of Israel claims to be a Jewish state - a claim such as no other nation on Earth could make without being criticized as racist. Moreover, it claims that all Jews, wherever they live, are citizens of Israel. Where does that leave those Jews who serve other nations in prominent positions, such as senior politicians and civil servants or senior military officers? Would someone with a Russian or Chinese passport - or even a British one - be permitted to work in the White House, the State Department, or at senior levels in the Pentagon? Hell no! Yet Jewish people do all of those things, and no one is in the slightest concerned.

    I don't make these remarks in any spirit of hostility towards Israel or Jews in general. I am fully aware of how large a proportion of our species' intellectual and creative cutting edge they make up. I am simply surprised at the gross inconsistency of established attitudes.

    What we see here are three hobbies; judaism (the practice of rituals generally referred to as religion), jewishness (identification with a group whose hobby was once judaism, but not necessarily practising the hobby), and zionism (the assumption that one’s jewishness confers title to land occupied by those whose ancestors took up another hobby, e.g. islam).

    My advice for those whose hobby is islam is to let their membership of Islam FC lapse and join Zion FC (assuming they won’t be black-balled).

    Read More
  9. geokat62 says:
    @Clyde
    Cutting through all the hoity-toity, "I am so offended" by them Jews nonsense here...... The obvious bottom line here is that the Israeli Jews have the balls to defend their nation from murderous Muslims. While Europe/Germany welcomes the Muslim invasion from Syria in the South and other failed Muslim states. How about that gynocracy called Sweden inviting them in by the boatloads?

    There is no imperialism like Muslim imperialism. Just examine the historical record. Europe beat back their invading armies in Tours, Vienna, Spain and other occasions only to knuckle under today.

    There is no imperialism like Muslim imperialism.

    Had your coreligionists not decided to make a Clean Break and remake the ME by regime changing the Zionist projects’s enemies, these Muslim refugees would not have moved an inch (but you knew that already).

    So, isn’t it more accurate to write “There is no imperialism like Zionist imperialism”?

    Read More
  10. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @Art
    “Blum is the multimillionaire husband of California Senator Dianne Feinstein.”

    Those two were big time profiteers from the Iraq war – she voted her husband war contracts. As powerful Big Jews - they have the ability to do this in broad daylight – no one of substance has the guts to publicly challenge them.

    She is the number one gun grabbing Jew in America. She is a biggie on the senate intelligence committee – you can bet that there is not one US secret that the King of the Jews – Little Davie Netanyahu = does not know.

    Those two work 24/7/365 for the Jew tribe and for Israel. There is no American ideal that they will not trash. Clearly our Bill of Rights is meaningless to them.

    Clearly our Bill of Rights is meaningless to them.

    And clearly this article is meaningless to you. You might want to re-read the part about “Judaism is a religion.”

    She is the number one gun grabbing Jew in America.

    And did you know that the number one not-gonna-let’em-grab-our-guns President of the NRA after Charlton Heston was a Jew, Sandra Froman and that she estimated that about 10% of the NRA Board of Directors are Jewish?

    Stop acting like an anti-semitic idiot.

    http://www.jweekly.com/article/full/26661/top-gun/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandra_Froman

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art
    "And did you know that the number one not-gonna-let’em-grab-our-guns President of the NRA after Charlton Heston was a Jew, Sandra Froman and that she estimated that about 10% of the NRA Board of Directors are Jewish?"

    There is a fifth column Jew in every American institution. When push comes to shove, the Little Jew will get a call from a Big Jew and he will sabotage the institution for the tribe – end of story.
    , @Rich
    Charlton Heston, born John Charles Carter, was an Episcopalian of Scottish and English heritage. He played Moses, but that was just a movie.
  11. The record shows that Jews have a history of never knowing when to quit. It has usually eventually resulted in bad reactions from those they are affecting.

    Read More
  12. @Clyde
    Cutting through all the hoity-toity, "I am so offended" by them Jews nonsense here...... The obvious bottom line here is that the Israeli Jews have the balls to defend their nation from murderous Muslims. While Europe/Germany welcomes the Muslim invasion from Syria in the South and other failed Muslim states. How about that gynocracy called Sweden inviting them in by the boatloads?

    There is no imperialism like Muslim imperialism. Just examine the historical record. Europe beat back their invading armies in Tours, Vienna, Spain and other occasions only to knuckle under today.

    Typical American idiot. They are many. Has no clue. Ever wonder how we got to this point?

    Read More
  13. The Israel shtick in the colleges is just part and parcel of political correctness. Get rid of PC and you’ll solve most of the problem.

    It’s true Judaism is a religion, but Zionism is not just part of that, it is the heart of it.

    Read More
  14. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @Clyde
    Cutting through all the hoity-toity, "I am so offended" by them Jews nonsense here...... The obvious bottom line here is that the Israeli Jews have the balls to defend their nation from murderous Muslims. While Europe/Germany welcomes the Muslim invasion from Syria in the South and other failed Muslim states. How about that gynocracy called Sweden inviting them in by the boatloads?

    There is no imperialism like Muslim imperialism. Just examine the historical record. Europe beat back their invading armies in Tours, Vienna, Spain and other occasions only to knuckle under today.

    The obvious bottom line here is that the Israeli Jews have the balls to defend their nation from murderous Muslims.

    Another one that is trying to shift the blame of conflict in Israel to religion. Those “murderous Muslims”, as you call them, were getting along just fine with the Jewish people that lived near them until their land was stolen from them to make the Zionist state of Israel. While I agree that ALL religions have been the cause of untold murder and atrocities, your inferring of the Palestinian’s Muslim religion as being the reason for the conflict in Israel is a blatant lie.

    If all Muslims are so “murderous” towards Judaism then why does Iran have the second largest Jewish population in the Middle East? If all Muslims are so “murderous” then why aren’t there 2 billion Muslims going on a killing rampage across the world? You need to learn how to focus your blame, drop the hate, and stop acting like a bigoted idiot.

    “Noting the behaviors of some Muslims in Muslim-majority countries might leave the impression that most Muslims and most Muslim leaders endorse intolerance and persecution. Nothing could be further from the truth.”

    “Most Muslims in most countries oppose violence in the name of Islam. For example, according to a 2009 Pew survey, in Pakistan, for example, 87 percent of Muslims hold that suicide bombing can never be justified (up from 35 percent in just 2004); 74 percent of Turkish Muslims and 78 percent of American Muslims concurred, and we have reason to believe that number to be higher today. Only 1 percent of American Muslims think suicide bombings are often justified, and only 7 percent think they are sometimes justified. I suspect, if suicide bombings were not so closely associated with Islam in most people’s minds, a similar number of non-Muslim Americans would think they were sometimes justified. ”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kelly-james-clark/muslims-for-peace_b_2441676.html

    Read More
    • Agree: Orville H. Larson
    • Replies: @nglaer
    @Clyde neglected to add "murderous Christians" who were and are also a major part of the Palestinian population ethnically cleansed by Israel.
    , @Avery
    "...why aren’t there 2 billion Muslims..."

    Can you substantiate that number ?
    All available estimates are between 1.5 and 1.6 billion.

    I am neither Palestinian, nor Jewish, nor Israeli.
    So.
    Please explain this: circa 1915, Muslim Ottoman Turkey was about 25% Christian and 75% Muslim.
    Now Turkey is 99.8% Muslim.
    Any idea what happened to those millions of Christians previously living in Muslim Turkey ?

    Any idea what are those minarets doing around Christian Hagia Sophia Church in Istanbul (...formerly Constantinople) ?

    There are mosques all over Christian Europe.
    Can you please list the existing Christian churches in Saudi Arabia.

    Thank you.
  15. Priss Factor [AKA "The Priss Factory"] says:

    Boomers opened the gates of libertine anarchism among the young.
    They reveled in it themselves.

    But once they got old and filled positions of power, they got frightened by young people acting out of control, rebellious, and unruly.
    So, they filled young minds with all these fears, and those fears gave the boomer authorities the justification to enforce all kinds of policies to control the young who, since the 60s, lost their sense of respect for authority.
    PC is sold as protecting the weak and young from the powerful and privileged but it is really meant to protect the powerful and well-connected from the everyone else. (Jews esp support PC in the name of protecting blacks from the KKK, but it’s really to shield Jewish power from any challenge.) If you fill up minds with fears, the people will ask for protection and give up their own rights & freedom. The powerful that is providing the ‘protection’ gains the real advantage.

    This was the dynamic of the cold war and war on terror.
    In both, the powerful made the people fear that they were gonna be attacked by communists or terrorists.
    Filled with fear, the people wanted protection and were willing to give up their rights and liberties for security(safe spaces).
    In the end, the powerful benefit since the people submit to its authority for providing the protection.

    The great irony is that the boomers and the Jews who once called out on stuff like McCarthyism are now the powerful who spread fears to make people comply with their agenda.
    Millennials are too dumb to figure this out.

    https://reason.com/blog/2015/10/26/new-poll-most-students-favor-mandatory-t

    Read More
  16. Sherman says:

    Give me a break.

    Just last week at a college in upstate New York a few dozen students held a non-political prayer vigil for the recent Israeli victims of Palestinian knife attacks.

    They were taunted and heckled by pro-Palestinian demonstrators.

    I know this because it was in the newspapers and my niece was there.

    Nobody is being denied freedom of speech on college campuses.

    I guess the reason that a Holocaust denying anti-Semite like Giraldi is relegated to publishing his venom on fringe websites is also because of a Zionist free speech conspiracy

    Read More
    • Disagree: Orville H. Larson
    • Replies: @nglaer
    Not sure if libelous things should be allowed in the comment system. Giraldi is not Holocaust denying, and an anti-sem only by the dishonest standard (increasingly used by Israel apologists) that criticism of Israel or American subservience to Israel is "anti-Semitic." Unz is not a fringe website, but a fairly interesting one.
    , @Junior

    Between January 2014 and June 2015 there were more than 300 incidents on 65 college campuses in 24 states involving intimidation or prevention of protests against Israel.
     
    Mr. Giraldi gave NUMEROUS examples of freedom of speech being denied on college campuses along with links to articles discussing it. But maybe your links aren't working so here are a couple different links which discuss a few out of the 300 attempts by Israel supporters to stop freedom of speech on campuses.

    https://shadowproof.com/2015/09/30/report-examines-widespread-attacks-on-palestinian-human-rights-activists-on-college-campuses/

    http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2015/10/26/university-of-california-intolerance-policy-free-speech-anti-semitism/

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/amani-alkhatahtbeh/the-fight-for-freedom-of-speech_b_4761906.html

    There is NOTHING that I have EVER read by Mr. Giraldi that would characterize him as being anti-semitic or Holocaust denying, so could you please provide some examples of your charges? That is, of course, unless your intent is to smear him and thus proving the point of this article that ANY criticism of Israel is cause to attack with false accusations...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIni_3TYg-A
    , @annamaria
    Should not we finally begin a discussion on the balance of power and money re Jews in the US (&EU) and Palestinians?
    Could you name any anti-Jewish affair that can rival the Salaita story and the shameful treatment of honorable Helen Thomas?
    "Nobody is being denied freedom of speech on college campuses." When the point in question is Israel and Israeli policies, the suppression is undeniable.
    http://www.salon.com/2015/09/30/free_speech_for_all_on_campus_unless_youre_criticizing_israel_that_is/
    https://theintercept.com/2015/09/25/dianne-feinstein-husband-threaten-univ-calif-demanding-ban-excessive-israel-criticism/
    http://www.timesofisrael.com/target-of-anti-israel-witch-hunt-stands-up-for-freedom-of-speech/
    , @Realist
    "Nobody is being denied freedom of speech on college campuses."

    That is so ignorant, it must be a lie on your part.
    , @bunga
    In 2005, as associate provost of Roosevelt University, she defended a department chair who fired adjunct professor Douglas Giles because Giles refused to bar students from discussing Zionism, Islamic beliefs about Jerusalem and the Palestinian question in his World Religions class. Giles' account of his outrageous treatment by Roosevelt describes how Love even defended the department chair's descriptions of Palestinians as "animals" and "not civilized" as nothing more than "defending her position passionately."

    http://socialistworker.org/2014/03/11/why-is-palestine-taboo-columbia-college


    2 After Chehade held a screening of the Oscar-nominated documentary 5 Broken Cameras in his class last fall, one of Chehade's students went to Corey with a complaint of "bias." Corey told Chehade to teach his class in a more "balanced" way and then requested that Chehade provide proof that he is qualified to teach.
    http://socialistworker.org/2014/03/11/why-is-palestine-taboo-columbia-college


    Universities Face Another Push to Criminalize Speech Criticizing Israel
    Students say they should be allowed to engage in human rights advocacy in defense of Palestinians
    http://www.commondreams.org/news/2015/10/27/universities-face-another-push-criminalize-speech-criticizing-israel
    , @bunga
    From a left-wing community once at the forefront of struggles against racism, unconditional support for Israel has turned a significant proportion of Toronto Jews into promoters of hatred against “Arabs” and into allies of right wing, bigoted, homophobic Christian Bible literalists.

    During 15 years of activism in Montréal, Ottawa and Vancouver I haven’t seen anything equivalent to the racist, militarist pro-Israel movement experienced recently in Toronto. And sadly the quasi-fascistic organization driving the charge seems increasingly enmeshed within a community that once led the fight against racism and fascism in the city.

    On Saturday at Queen’s Park (the grounds of the Ontario legislature) I was shoved, spat on, had my bike damaged and lock stolen by members of the Jewish Defense League (JDL), a hate group that is banned in the U.S. and Israel. My offence was to chant “kill more Palestinian children” as hundreds of JDL and B’nai B’rith supporters rallied to applaud the onslaught on Gaza in a counter demonstration to those opposed to Israel’s massacres.

    The following day, also at Queen’s Park, a JDL member knocked a pro-Palestinian counter demonstrator to the ground and kicked him in the face. Half an hour after this happened, a JDL member walked some 50 metres around a barricade to where I was standing alone chanting at the pro-war rally and spat on me three times. Both incidents were caught on tape by major media outlets.

    New to pro-Palestinian activism in Toronto, I was unaware of just how aggressive and organized the JDL had become. It’s reached the point where some Palestinian solidarity groups avoid publicizing pickets out of fear they might disrupt them.

    In the US the JDL has been outlawed since 2001. Its members have been convicted in a series of acts of terror, including the killing of the regional director of the American Arab Anti-discrimination Committee and a plot to assassinate a Congressman. A member of the JDL’s sister organization in Israel killed 29 Palestinian Muslim worshipers in the Cave of the Patriarchs Massacre twenty years ago. In 2011 the RCMP launched an investigation against a number of JDL members who were thought to be plotting to bomb Palestine House in Mississauga.

    Despite the group’s links to terrorism, the JDL appears to find support from much of the organized Jewish community and even in Ottawa. In a significant boost to the group, Stephen Harper included a member in his official delegation on a recent trip to Israel; recent Canadian Jewish News coverage of the group has been sympathetic; rabbis attended the JDL/B’nai B’rith sponsored counterdemonstration Saturday; on Sunday the group provided “security” for the Canadians for Israel rally. Rather than being an isolated fringe group the Jewish mainstream tries to ostracize, the JDL seems to be gaining influence.

    The growth of Canada’s JDL parallels the increasingly extreme violence of the Israeli government and the resulting worldwide outrage over that country’s aggressive expansionism. The mainstream Jewish community is marching in lockstep with the Israeli state and Stephen Harper’s Conservatives have not only accepted it, they have promoted it. Over the past three weeks Israel has killed over 1,300 Palestinians in Gaza, displaced more than a tenth of the population and destroyed most of the area’s electricity and water supply. Yet, the Israeli government still receives unequivocal support from the Centre for Israel and Jewish Affairs, B’nai B’rith and other leading Canadian Jewish organizations. As part of its support for the recent killings in Gaza the United Jewish Appeal Federation of Greater Toronto, the community’s main philanthropic arm, has added $2.25 million to its annual aid to Israel.

    While the JDL would likely back the complete incineration of Gaza, one wonders just how far the more mainstream groups are willing to go in cheering on Israel’s current onslaught, its third large-scale assault on Gaza in five years. Will the Jewish establishment withdraw support if 2,000 Palestinian are killed? Or is the breakpoint 5,000? Or maybe B’nai B’rith and the Centre for Israel and Jewish Affairs would back the Israeli military all the way to 50,000 dead?

    While one might want to believe that the warmongering promoted by dominant Jewish organizations is not widely shared by the community they claim to represent, I’ve seen too many sizable pro-war rallies and witnessed too many outbursts of anti-Arab racism over the past three weeks in Toronto to be hopeful in this regard. Wide swaths of Toronto’s Jewish community seem to be mimicking the Israeli public’s racist militarism. (Google stories about Israelis chanting “death to the Arabs”, celebrating military blasts on Gaza from hilltops nearby or beating peace activists.) On Bloor Street two weeks ago a middle-aged man walking with his partner crumbled a leaflet I handed him, pointed at two older Arab looking men who responded, and yelled “barbarians”. In a similarly bizarre racist outburst, a man who was biking past the Saturday demonstration stopped to engage and soon after he was pointing at a young Arab looking child close by and telling me that I was indoctrinating him to kill. And then on Sunday an older woman interrupted a phone conversation I was having about Israel’s destruction of Gaza and yelled she hoped Israel kills “10,000 more”.

    The idea that Toronto’s Jewish community in 2014 would be front-and-centre in backing racist militarism is profoundly depressing and quite the historic reversal. Seven decades ago righteous Jewish youth fought back against fascist thugs terrorizing non-Anglo-Saxons in the 1933 Christie Pits Riot. Two decades after that the Canadian Jewish Congress helped win the famous Noble v. Alley Supreme Court case, which prompted Ontario to pass a law voiding racist land covenants, a major victory in the battle for racial equality.

    But, while six decades ago Jewish organizations fought racist land restrictions, today there is no other community that so strongly and openly backs racist supremacy in land use. Six months ago some 4,500 people packed the Toronto Convention Centre to honour Stephen Harper at a Jewish National Fund fundraiser. Owner of 13% of Israel’s land, the Jewish National Fund excludes Palestinian citizens of Israel and other non-Jews from its properties.

    In 2014 “respectable” members of the pro-Zionist Jewish community fundraise for an organization with racist land covenants, work together with Christian fundamentalists and defend Israel’s slaughter of civilians in Gaza, while the harder edge youth attend JDL demonstrations or enlist as “lone soldiers” with a murderous foreign army.

    Shame.

    Yves Engler’s latest book is The Ugly Canadian: Stephen Harper’s Foreign Policy. He’s also the author of Canada and Israel: Building Apartheid.


    July , 2014 www.counterpunch.com
  17. Sherman says:
    @Tom Welsh
    Zionists and other extremist Jews have a whole arsenal of sophistry when it comes to getting their way. One of the things that has always irritated me beyond measure is the very concept of Jewishness.

    Compare the condition of being Jewish with the condition of being British, or Japanese, or Catholic, or even a US citizen. Some of those names denote nationality; some denote genetic origin; and one (Catholic) denotes religious affiliation.

    Now, where does Jewishness fit in to this classification? Well, everywhere and nowhere! There is literally no other category in human experience that is comparable with Jewishness.

    On the one hand, it is supposed to be a racial identity - which presumably has clearcut genetic markers. Yet we are told that many people who call themselves Jewish are of European or central Asian genetic origin; their ancestors never came anywhere near Palestine. (Whereas many of today's "Palestinians" may have distinct Jewish genetic traces). Well, OK, it is argued - that doesn't matter, as they are Jewish by religion. Then again, many people who call themselves Jewish are atheist or agnostic; some may even have converted to another religion. Finally, we come down to the "cultural" definition which is a kind of semantic safety net. No one can prove that a given person is not "culturally Jewish", because that condition is so vaguely defined.

    So we end up with a situation in which any criticism of Jews, or even of the state of Israel, is met with shrieks of "racism" and "anti-Semitism". Yet the state of Israel claims to be a Jewish state - a claim such as no other nation on Earth could make without being criticized as racist. Moreover, it claims that all Jews, wherever they live, are citizens of Israel. Where does that leave those Jews who serve other nations in prominent positions, such as senior politicians and civil servants or senior military officers? Would someone with a Russian or Chinese passport - or even a British one - be permitted to work in the White House, the State Department, or at senior levels in the Pentagon? Hell no! Yet Jewish people do all of those things, and no one is in the slightest concerned.

    I don't make these remarks in any spirit of hostility towards Israel or Jews in general. I am fully aware of how large a proportion of our species' intellectual and creative cutting edge they make up. I am simply surprised at the gross inconsistency of established attitudes.

    Nobody in Israel has ever claimed that “all Jews, wherever they live, are citizens of Israel”.

    Israeli law states that Jews around the world are entitled to Israeli citizenship if they choose to live in Israel.

    Big difference.

    Read More
    • Replies: @KA
    No there is no big difference. Jews fleeing from justice from US and Russia have been given citizenship on arrival and not been extradited to the parent country.
    , @Carroll Price
    How about; 'all Jews wherever they live are de-facto citizens of Israel.' Small difference.
  18. nglaer says:
    @Sherman
    Give me a break.

    Just last week at a college in upstate New York a few dozen students held a non-political prayer vigil for the recent Israeli victims of Palestinian knife attacks.

    They were taunted and heckled by pro-Palestinian demonstrators.

    I know this because it was in the newspapers and my niece was there.

    Nobody is being denied freedom of speech on college campuses.

    I guess the reason that a Holocaust denying anti-Semite like Giraldi is relegated to publishing his venom on fringe websites is also because of a Zionist free speech conspiracy

    Not sure if libelous things should be allowed in the comment system. Giraldi is not Holocaust denying, and an anti-sem only by the dishonest standard (increasingly used by Israel apologists) that criticism of Israel or American subservience to Israel is “anti-Semitic.” Unz is not a fringe website, but a fairly interesting one.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Philip Giraldi
    Thanks nglaer. If it makes Sherman feel better let him vent all he wants.
  19. nglaer says:
    @Junior

    The obvious bottom line here is that the Israeli Jews have the balls to defend their nation from murderous Muslims.
     
    Another one that is trying to shift the blame of conflict in Israel to religion. Those "murderous Muslims", as you call them, were getting along just fine with the Jewish people that lived near them until their land was stolen from them to make the Zionist state of Israel. While I agree that ALL religions have been the cause of untold murder and atrocities, your inferring of the Palestinian's Muslim religion as being the reason for the conflict in Israel is a blatant lie.

    If all Muslims are so "murderous" towards Judaism then why does Iran have the second largest Jewish population in the Middle East? If all Muslims are so "murderous" then why aren't there 2 billion Muslims going on a killing rampage across the world? You need to learn how to focus your blame, drop the hate, and stop acting like a bigoted idiot.

    "Noting the behaviors of some Muslims in Muslim-majority countries might leave the impression that most Muslims and most Muslim leaders endorse intolerance and persecution. Nothing could be further from the truth."

    "Most Muslims in most countries oppose violence in the name of Islam. For example, according to a 2009 Pew survey, in Pakistan, for example, 87 percent of Muslims hold that suicide bombing can never be justified (up from 35 percent in just 2004); 74 percent of Turkish Muslims and 78 percent of American Muslims concurred, and we have reason to believe that number to be higher today. Only 1 percent of American Muslims think suicide bombings are often justified, and only 7 percent think they are sometimes justified. I suspect, if suicide bombings were not so closely associated with Islam in most people's minds, a similar number of non-Muslim Americans would think they were sometimes justified. "

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kelly-james-clark/muslims-for-peace_b_2441676.html

    neglected to add “murderous Christians” who were and are also a major part of the Palestinian population ethnically cleansed by Israel.

    Read More
  20. Continuity of ”ages of discovery”.

    Whitey discovery that they are ALWAYS treated as cattle as happened with all people who were ”colonized” by sociopathic-megalomaniac-messianic subgroup of europeans and ”europeans” as well.

    Europe as Aztec empire.

    Read More
  21. @nglaer
    Not sure if libelous things should be allowed in the comment system. Giraldi is not Holocaust denying, and an anti-sem only by the dishonest standard (increasingly used by Israel apologists) that criticism of Israel or American subservience to Israel is "anti-Semitic." Unz is not a fringe website, but a fairly interesting one.

    Thanks nglaer. If it makes Sherman feel better let him vent all he wants.

    Read More
  22. Wally [AKA "BobbyBeGood"] says: • Website

    Mr. Giraldi is almost, but not quite there yet.

    The impossible ‘holocau$t’ narrative allows the racist Israeli parasites to get away with slaughtering Palestinians and stealing billions from the US taxpayers every year, and then demand that US soldiers die for their greedy self interests.

    - The ‘gas chambers’ as alleged were scientifically impossible, in fact when rationally scrutinized the absurd ’6M Jews’ & ’5M others’ are shown to be downright laughable.

    - Also note that there is not a single verifiable excavated mass grave that can be actually shown even though Jews claim to know exactly where these allegedly enormous mass graves are.

    - If there was ‘a plan to kill every Jew the Germans could get their hands on’ then why are there countless numbers of so called “survivor$? … who profit mightily.

    - And if the alleged ‘holocau$t’ was fact, then why are there laws in Europe to prevent scrutiny of it? What kind of “truth” needs to imprison people to prevent free speech?

    Remember Je Suis Charlie Hebdo and demands for free speech?

    Get the facts, ask questions, and participate in exposing the ‘holocau$t’ Industry’s lies. Only then will the violent racism of Israel cease

    http://www.codoh.com

    debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

    The ‘holocau$t’ storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives
    ever contrived.

    Thanks.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Moi
    In time, the official holocaust story will implode.
  23. Avery says:
    @Junior

    The obvious bottom line here is that the Israeli Jews have the balls to defend their nation from murderous Muslims.
     
    Another one that is trying to shift the blame of conflict in Israel to religion. Those "murderous Muslims", as you call them, were getting along just fine with the Jewish people that lived near them until their land was stolen from them to make the Zionist state of Israel. While I agree that ALL religions have been the cause of untold murder and atrocities, your inferring of the Palestinian's Muslim religion as being the reason for the conflict in Israel is a blatant lie.

    If all Muslims are so "murderous" towards Judaism then why does Iran have the second largest Jewish population in the Middle East? If all Muslims are so "murderous" then why aren't there 2 billion Muslims going on a killing rampage across the world? You need to learn how to focus your blame, drop the hate, and stop acting like a bigoted idiot.

    "Noting the behaviors of some Muslims in Muslim-majority countries might leave the impression that most Muslims and most Muslim leaders endorse intolerance and persecution. Nothing could be further from the truth."

    "Most Muslims in most countries oppose violence in the name of Islam. For example, according to a 2009 Pew survey, in Pakistan, for example, 87 percent of Muslims hold that suicide bombing can never be justified (up from 35 percent in just 2004); 74 percent of Turkish Muslims and 78 percent of American Muslims concurred, and we have reason to believe that number to be higher today. Only 1 percent of American Muslims think suicide bombings are often justified, and only 7 percent think they are sometimes justified. I suspect, if suicide bombings were not so closely associated with Islam in most people's minds, a similar number of non-Muslim Americans would think they were sometimes justified. "

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kelly-james-clark/muslims-for-peace_b_2441676.html

    “…why aren’t there 2 billion Muslims…”

    Can you substantiate that number ?
    All available estimates are between 1.5 and 1.6 billion.

    I am neither Palestinian, nor Jewish, nor Israeli.
    So.
    Please explain this: circa 1915, Muslim Ottoman Turkey was about 25% Christian and 75% Muslim.
    Now Turkey is 99.8% Muslim.
    Any idea what happened to those millions of Christians previously living in Muslim Turkey ?

    Any idea what are those minarets doing around Christian Hagia Sophia Church in Istanbul (…formerly Constantinople) ?

    There are mosques all over Christian Europe.
    Can you please list the existing Christian churches in Saudi Arabia.

    Thank you.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Junior

    Can you substantiate that number ?
    All available estimates are between 1.5 and 1.6 billion.
     
    The Pew Research Center had the number around 1.6 billion in 2010. The projected Pew number in 2030 is 2.2 billion. I tried to figure out what that number would be between the two but I must admit that math isn't my strong suit, so 2 billion seemed a safe round number estimate considering the only other report that I found stated it was 2.08 in 2014 but I wasn't sure how reliable that source is.

    http://www.pewforum.org/2011/01/27/the-future-of-the-global-muslim-population/

    http://muslimpopulation.com/World/


    Any idea what happened to those millions of Christians previously living in Muslim Turkey ?
     
    From what I understand of what happened, the Armenian Genocide in the quest of Turkey to seize land from Armenia. It looks like they lived together in relative peace for many years until the Elite at the top of Turkey used differences in faith as an excuse to steal land from people and tried to wipe them out. The "Muslim" leaders of Turkey used religion as a tool to murder and steal. As it is with most religions, the people in power use peoples faith and differences in faith for power grabs. Same was done to the Muslims in Bosnia and in the Central African Republic by "Christian" leaders. And by "Hindu" and "Muslim" leaders in India to each other. And by Zionist "Jewish" leaders in Israel to Muslims. It has NOTHING to do with religion to the leaders. They PRETEND that it does so that they can control the masses. It's all about power, money, and using religion as a tool to accomplish their goals of more power.

    There are mosques all over Christian Europe.
    Can you please list the existing Christian churches in Saudi Arabia.
     
    And there are Christian churches ALL over the Muslim Middle East. In EVERY single Muslim country except for Saudi Arabia. Condemn Saudi Arabia, NOT the Muslim religion. Can you please list the existing Muslim Mosques in Vatican City?
  24. Priss Factor [AKA "The Priss Factory"] says:

    It’s the new prohibitionism.

    Prohibit the dissemination of certain views and idears.

    There’s always an ethnic angle to these things.

    One strain of Americanism(esp in New England, for a long time the intellectual and moral center of America) tended to see America as distinct from Old Europe with all its vices.
    In France, Italy, Germany, Ireland, Russia, etc, drinking was far more common, even as part of the culture of the young.
    Americans loved their ale too, but the moralists thought that American habits should be distinct from those of Europeans, just like the American political system, founded on liberty, was different from Europeans ways soaked in the tradition of privilege.

    The ethnic angle of Speech Prohibitionism is Jewish.
    Even apart from the issue of Israel, Jews have been promoting PC to silence the white majority from waking up to their racial consciousness.
    By invoking the needs of the ‘powerless’ minorities, Jews silence free speech to mute criticism of the powerful elite minority dominated by themselves and homos. The main worry of Jews is not criticism of Israel. It is the criticism of the power of World Jewry, without which Israel’s future would be uncertain.

    PS. Speaking of safe spaces, non-blacks deserve havens from black thuggery.

    Of course, colleges and gentrified neighborhoods are indeed just this: safe spaces from the Thugros. But it’s an inconvenient fact that Libs don’t want to deal with, and so they pretend to care by providing ‘safe spaces’ within their own communities.

    It’s like Hyde Park/University of Chicago area is a safe space protected from the surrounding Negro community.
    But oh my, how could it be that such a ‘progressive’ community is so ‘exclusive’ of blacks?
    So, they allow their token black students to create their ‘safe space’ within the bigger ‘safe space’ that is Hyde Park. (You can’t run but you can Hyde.)
    Keep most blacks out but make those who are allowed in feel that they are so well taken care of by the ‘good whites’ against the ‘bad whites’.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Junior
    Back again, you CAMERA Hasbara Troll? If everyone would like to see the agenda of this troll, Priss Factory or Andrea Ostrov Latania or hambaconeggs or whatever the hell he's calling himself now, then please read the article in the below link about the new strategy of CAMERA Hasbara propagandists for Israel of stoking anti-semitism to try to make people think criticism of Israel is anti-semitic. Priss does this all over this site. He's a fraud and should be paid no attention, along with the majority of idiotic anti-semitic comments that you read here whom are more than likely part of their CAMERA army who flood any criticism of Israel articles.

    http://www.commondreams.org/hambaconeggs

  25. Saddest words in the language: “It might have been.”

    Another turn on the spit in Hell for whomever turned down Adolf for art school.

    Read More
    • Replies: @tbraton
    "Another turn on the spit in Hell for whomever turned down Adolf for art school."

    Poor Adolph. He was just born too soon. Had he been born in more recent times and moved to America, I am sure he would no trouble getting into an art school, no matter how bad an artist he was.
    , @nickels
    With quite obviously the most oratory talent in the last millennia I kind of think it really wouldn't have made any difference.
  26. Israel’s fifty year occupation of the West Bank …continued theft of Arab land

    They’re just following the example of the Latins’ five hundred-year occupation of Iberia and the resultant theft of Arab land. How is the poor Arab race supposed to squeeze into only five million measly square miles?

    A possible compromise: Israel returns the West Bank of the Jordan to its rightful owners, and Araby returns the west bank of the Nile to its. Fair enough?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wally
    News Flash!

    The Arabs invaded Spain and were thrown out.

    Araby already occupies "the west bank of the Nile".
    http://www.yourchildlearns.com/online-atlas/images/map-of-egypt.gif

    You're making no sense.
    , @schmenz
    "They’re just following the example of the Latins’ five hundred-year occupation of Iberia and the resultant theft of Arab land."

    Satire, right?
  27. Wally says: • Website

    Jews and free speech?
    Only when they agree with what is spoken.

    i.e.: laws against questioning the holocaust canon

    There are no such laws restricting free speech about other claims within our received ‘history’.

    Read More
  28. Wally says: • Website
    @Reg Cæsar

    Israel’s fifty year occupation of the West Bank …continued theft of Arab land
     
    They're just following the example of the Latins' five hundred-year occupation of Iberia and the resultant theft of Arab land. How is the poor Arab race supposed to squeeze into only five million measly square miles?

    A possible compromise: Israel returns the West Bank of the Jordan to its rightful owners, and Araby returns the west bank of the Nile to its. Fair enough?

    News Flash!

    The Arabs invaded Spain and were thrown out.

    Araby already occupies “the west bank of the Nile”.

    You’re making no sense.

    Read More
    • Replies: @tbraton
    You and "Watson," the IBM computer which beat Ken Jennings at Jeopardy!, apparently have one thing in common: neither of you has mastered "sarcasm" yet.
    , @RobinG
    And you are making less (sense).
    He's implying that Jews once "owned" the west bank of the Nile. That's not even alleged in the OT myths he's relying on, and recently historians are saying that the Moses character and his tribe were never even in Egypt.
  29. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @Sherman
    Give me a break.

    Just last week at a college in upstate New York a few dozen students held a non-political prayer vigil for the recent Israeli victims of Palestinian knife attacks.

    They were taunted and heckled by pro-Palestinian demonstrators.

    I know this because it was in the newspapers and my niece was there.

    Nobody is being denied freedom of speech on college campuses.

    I guess the reason that a Holocaust denying anti-Semite like Giraldi is relegated to publishing his venom on fringe websites is also because of a Zionist free speech conspiracy

    Between January 2014 and June 2015 there were more than 300 incidents on 65 college campuses in 24 states involving intimidation or prevention of protests against Israel.

    Mr. Giraldi gave NUMEROUS examples of freedom of speech being denied on college campuses along with links to articles discussing it. But maybe your links aren’t working so here are a couple different links which discuss a few out of the 300 attempts by Israel supporters to stop freedom of speech on campuses.

    https://shadowproof.com/2015/09/30/report-examines-widespread-attacks-on-palestinian-human-rights-activists-on-college-campuses/

    http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2015/10/26/university-of-california-intolerance-policy-free-speech-anti-semitism/

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/amani-alkhatahtbeh/the-fight-for-freedom-of-speech_b_4761906.html

    There is NOTHING that I have EVER read by Mr. Giraldi that would characterize him as being anti-semitic or Holocaust denying, so could you please provide some examples of your charges? That is, of course, unless your intent is to smear him and thus proving the point of this article that ANY criticism of Israel is cause to attack with false accusations…

    Read More
  30. annamaria says:
    @Sherman
    Give me a break.

    Just last week at a college in upstate New York a few dozen students held a non-political prayer vigil for the recent Israeli victims of Palestinian knife attacks.

    They were taunted and heckled by pro-Palestinian demonstrators.

    I know this because it was in the newspapers and my niece was there.

    Nobody is being denied freedom of speech on college campuses.

    I guess the reason that a Holocaust denying anti-Semite like Giraldi is relegated to publishing his venom on fringe websites is also because of a Zionist free speech conspiracy

    Should not we finally begin a discussion on the balance of power and money re Jews in the US (&EU) and Palestinians?
    Could you name any anti-Jewish affair that can rival the Salaita story and the shameful treatment of honorable Helen Thomas?
    “Nobody is being denied freedom of speech on college campuses.” When the point in question is Israel and Israeli policies, the suppression is undeniable.

    http://www.salon.com/2015/09/30/free_speech_for_all_on_campus_unless_youre_criticizing_israel_that_is/

    https://theintercept.com/2015/09/25/dianne-feinstein-husband-threaten-univ-calif-demanding-ban-excessive-israel-criticism/

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/target-of-anti-israel-witch-hunt-stands-up-for-freedom-of-speech/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sherman
    You are including a link to an article about a pro-Israel professor who was harassed and intimidated by anti-Israel agitators.

    I'm not sure how this is supporting your argument that "Zionists" are suppressing free speech on campus.

    You're shooting yourself in the foot. You're obviously not too bright.
  31. nickels says:

    For those who attack free speech in my great American country.

    Beware, we will ‘Never Forget’.

    Read More
  32. Giuseppe says:

    Thank you for making the important distinction between Israel and Judaism. To criticize the one is not to hate the other.

    Read More
  33. tbraton says:
    @Fran Macadam
    Saddest words in the language: "It might have been."

    Another turn on the spit in Hell for whomever turned down Adolf for art school.

    “Another turn on the spit in Hell for whomever turned down Adolf for art school.”

    Poor Adolph. He was just born too soon. Had he been born in more recent times and moved to America, I am sure he would no trouble getting into an art school, no matter how bad an artist he was.

    Read More
  34. tbraton says:
    @Wally
    News Flash!

    The Arabs invaded Spain and were thrown out.

    Araby already occupies "the west bank of the Nile".
    http://www.yourchildlearns.com/online-atlas/images/map-of-egypt.gif

    You're making no sense.

    You and “Watson,” the IBM computer which beat Ken Jennings at Jeopardy!, apparently have one thing in common: neither of you has mastered “sarcasm” yet.

    Read More
    • Replies: @RobinG
    It was only half sarcasm. Midway through, he switched to disinfo.
  35. Sherman says:
    @annamaria
    Should not we finally begin a discussion on the balance of power and money re Jews in the US (&EU) and Palestinians?
    Could you name any anti-Jewish affair that can rival the Salaita story and the shameful treatment of honorable Helen Thomas?
    "Nobody is being denied freedom of speech on college campuses." When the point in question is Israel and Israeli policies, the suppression is undeniable.
    http://www.salon.com/2015/09/30/free_speech_for_all_on_campus_unless_youre_criticizing_israel_that_is/
    https://theintercept.com/2015/09/25/dianne-feinstein-husband-threaten-univ-calif-demanding-ban-excessive-israel-criticism/
    http://www.timesofisrael.com/target-of-anti-israel-witch-hunt-stands-up-for-freedom-of-speech/

    You are including a link to an article about a pro-Israel professor who was harassed and intimidated by anti-Israel agitators.

    I’m not sure how this is supporting your argument that “Zionists” are suppressing free speech on campus.

    You’re shooting yourself in the foot. You’re obviously not too bright.

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  36. Realist says:
    @Sherman
    Give me a break.

    Just last week at a college in upstate New York a few dozen students held a non-political prayer vigil for the recent Israeli victims of Palestinian knife attacks.

    They were taunted and heckled by pro-Palestinian demonstrators.

    I know this because it was in the newspapers and my niece was there.

    Nobody is being denied freedom of speech on college campuses.

    I guess the reason that a Holocaust denying anti-Semite like Giraldi is relegated to publishing his venom on fringe websites is also because of a Zionist free speech conspiracy

    “Nobody is being denied freedom of speech on college campuses.”

    That is so ignorant, it must be a lie on your part.

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  37. bunga says:
    @Clyde
    Cutting through all the hoity-toity, "I am so offended" by them Jews nonsense here...... The obvious bottom line here is that the Israeli Jews have the balls to defend their nation from murderous Muslims. While Europe/Germany welcomes the Muslim invasion from Syria in the South and other failed Muslim states. How about that gynocracy called Sweden inviting them in by the boatloads?

    There is no imperialism like Muslim imperialism. Just examine the historical record. Europe beat back their invading armies in Tours, Vienna, Spain and other occasions only to knuckle under today.

    Please defend. Keep on defending your tribes from murderous Muslim.

    Please can you spare the world ,US,the Congress ,Media,Movie, School and the Pentagon, and the taxpayers from Germany to UK,Australia,North America,and New Zealand
    ?

    Haven’t we done enough for Jews from 1917 till today?

    Can we now take care of opur problem without taking your interests in account at home and in the broader world outside?
    How can we keep on supporting the parasites?

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  38. nickels says:
    @Fran Macadam
    Saddest words in the language: "It might have been."

    Another turn on the spit in Hell for whomever turned down Adolf for art school.

    With quite obviously the most oratory talent in the last millennia I kind of think it really wouldn’t have made any difference.

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  39. RobinG says:
    @Wally
    News Flash!

    The Arabs invaded Spain and were thrown out.

    Araby already occupies "the west bank of the Nile".
    http://www.yourchildlearns.com/online-atlas/images/map-of-egypt.gif

    You're making no sense.

    And you are making less (sense).
    He’s implying that Jews once “owned” the west bank of the Nile. That’s not even alleged in the OT myths he’s relying on, and recently historians are saying that the Moses character and his tribe were never even in Egypt.

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    • Replies: @tbraton
    Well, Reg Caesar can speak for himself, but this is what he said: "A possible compromise: Israel returns the West Bank of the Jordan to its rightful owners, and Araby returns the west bank of the Nile to its. Fair enough?" Assuming he meant to say "west bank of the Nile," I would point out that the west bank of the Nile was never controlled by the Israelis but prior to spread of Islam in the 7th century the people of Egypt, for the most part, did not speak Arabic or have the same ethnic stock as their Arab conquerors. That territory belonged to the Byzantine Empire (aka the Eastern Roman Empire) and practiced largely Christianity. I believe that was what Reg Caesar might have been referring to when he said the "west bank of the Nile" should be returned to its "rightful owners." That would be the Copts. According to Wikipedia: "Christianity was the religion of the vast majority of Egyptians from 400–800 A.D. and the majority after the Muslim conquest until the mid-10th century[18] and remains the faith of a significant minority population. Historically they spoke the Coptic language, a direct descendant of the Demotic Egyptian spoken in the Roman era, but it has been near-extinct and mostly limited to liturgical use since the 18th century. They now speak Arabic."
    , @Reg Cæsar

    He’s implying that Jews once “owned” the west bank of the Nile.
     
    Someone needs to read up on the great saints of Alexandria-- Mark, Ambrose, Catherine, Leonides, and the rest-- and the history of what's now called "Coptic Cairo", which is not much of Cairo.

    The only "Jews on the Nile" I might have been referring to were Joseph, Mary, and their Child, who didn't stay long enough to own anything.
  40. bunga says:

    is high time to remind Netanyahu some hidden stuff of the history that his father did not teach him before stopping his

    “David Ben-Gurion, first prime minister of Israel: “If I knew that it would be possible to save all the children in Germany by bringing them over to England, and only half of them by transporting them to Eretz Yisrael, then I would opt for the second alternative. For we must weigh not only the life of these children, but also the history of the People of Israel.” (Yoav Gelber, “Zionist Policy and the Fate of European Jewry (1932-1945)” Yad Vashem Studies, vol. XII, 199.)

    -importance to the establishment of Israel than to the survival of the Jews led the Zionists to collaborate with Nazism and even be decorated by Hitler’s government. The best known case was that of Rudolf Kastner, who negotiated the emigration to Palestine of some of Hungary’s most prominent Jews in return for his help in arranging the orderly deportation of the remainder of Hungary’s Jews to the camps. For his efforts, Kastner was praised as an “idealist” by no less an authority than Adolf Eichmann. (The best study of Zionist-Nazi relations is Lenni Brenner, Zionism in the Age of the Dictators.)

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2004/06/17/zionism-anti-semitism-and-the-people-of-palestine/

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  41. RobinG says:
    @tbraton
    You and "Watson," the IBM computer which beat Ken Jennings at Jeopardy!, apparently have one thing in common: neither of you has mastered "sarcasm" yet.

    It was only half sarcasm. Midway through, he switched to disinfo.

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  42. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @Avery
    "...why aren’t there 2 billion Muslims..."

    Can you substantiate that number ?
    All available estimates are between 1.5 and 1.6 billion.

    I am neither Palestinian, nor Jewish, nor Israeli.
    So.
    Please explain this: circa 1915, Muslim Ottoman Turkey was about 25% Christian and 75% Muslim.
    Now Turkey is 99.8% Muslim.
    Any idea what happened to those millions of Christians previously living in Muslim Turkey ?

    Any idea what are those minarets doing around Christian Hagia Sophia Church in Istanbul (...formerly Constantinople) ?

    There are mosques all over Christian Europe.
    Can you please list the existing Christian churches in Saudi Arabia.

    Thank you.

    Can you substantiate that number ?
    All available estimates are between 1.5 and 1.6 billion.

    The Pew Research Center had the number around 1.6 billion in 2010. The projected Pew number in 2030 is 2.2 billion. I tried to figure out what that number would be between the two but I must admit that math isn’t my strong suit, so 2 billion seemed a safe round number estimate considering the only other report that I found stated it was 2.08 in 2014 but I wasn’t sure how reliable that source is.

    http://www.pewforum.org/2011/01/27/the-future-of-the-global-muslim-population/

    http://muslimpopulation.com/World/

    Any idea what happened to those millions of Christians previously living in Muslim Turkey ?

    From what I understand of what happened, the Armenian Genocide in the quest of Turkey to seize land from Armenia. It looks like they lived together in relative peace for many years until the Elite at the top of Turkey used differences in faith as an excuse to steal land from people and tried to wipe them out. The “Muslim” leaders of Turkey used religion as a tool to murder and steal. As it is with most religions, the people in power use peoples faith and differences in faith for power grabs. Same was done to the Muslims in Bosnia and in the Central African Republic by “Christian” leaders. And by “Hindu” and “Muslim” leaders in India to each other. And by Zionist “Jewish” leaders in Israel to Muslims. It has NOTHING to do with religion to the leaders. They PRETEND that it does so that they can control the masses. It’s all about power, money, and using religion as a tool to accomplish their goals of more power.

    There are mosques all over Christian Europe.
    Can you please list the existing Christian churches in Saudi Arabia.

    And there are Christian churches ALL over the Muslim Middle East. In EVERY single Muslim country except for Saudi Arabia. Condemn Saudi Arabia, NOT the Muslim religion. Can you please list the existing Muslim Mosques in Vatican City?

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    • Replies: @Avery
    {Can you please list the existing Muslim Mosques in Vatican City?}

    As soon as you list Christian Churches in Mecca, equivalent of Vatican City.
    (Original birthplace of Christianity, Jerusalem, is another convoluted matter)

    And there is at least one giant mosque in Rome.
    Again, how many churches in all of Saudi Arabia ?


    {From what I understand of what happened, the Armenian Genocide in the quest of Turkey to seize land from Armenia. It looks like they lived together in relative peace for many years until the Elite at the top of Turkey used differences in faith as an excuse to steal land from people and tried to wipe them out}

    I appreciate you not denying the Armenian Genocide: quite unusual.
    (not single Muslim country recognizes the AG)
    (many Christian countries recognize what Christian Serbs did to Muslim Bosniacs: correct ?)

    But your understanding of why the AG took place and who besides the Elites participated is not complete.
    Neither is your understanding correct that Christians and Muslims lived in relative peace for many years in Ottoman Turkey.
    Far from it.
    But, a long subject for another thread.
    Religion did play a significant role in it, because Sunni Kurds were spared being wiped out by Sunni Turks.
    Only Christians were subjected to Genocide.

    {And there are Christian churches ALL over the Muslim Middle East}

    Yes, there are.
    And that is neither a surprise nor unusual.
    You know why, right ?
    Christianity is about 600 years older than Islam.
    There were no Muslims in Middles East: only Christians and other.
    Those Christian churches that are all over Middle East were there for centuries when Muslim invaders swept in and ethnically cleansed Christians from all over Middle East.
    1000s of Churches were destroyed or converted to Mosques.
    Take a look at Hagia Sophia, and you’ll get the picture.

    Just for the record: I know that not all Muslims are alike, any more than all Christians or other faiths are alike.
    (Nominally) Muslim Arab countries, particularly Syria and Lebanon, took in and saved Christian Armenian survivors of the AG: Armenians will never forget that.
    Christian Armenia is close friends with its neighbor Islamic Republic of Iran.
    Persian and Armenian friendship and genetic links pre-date both Islam and Christianity.


    Individuals are individuals: I have worked in US with lots of Muslims over many years: Pakistanis, Iranians, etc.
    All wonderful individuals.
    But there is a group dynamic: beyond some number, individuals are influenced by the surrounding majority. Very hard to resists group pressure.
    You can look at predominantly Christian countries and societies and compare them to predominantly Muslim countries and societies.
    The differences are undeniable.
    Mosque are being built in Christian Europe today while Churches are being destroyed in Middle East today.

  43. Marais says:

    Free speech is also disputed in Congress. “Inflammatory rhetoric” has been used to justify cutting US Palestinian economic aid by $80 million:

    “There were several factors contributing to this decision, including unhelpful actions taken by the Palestinians and constraints on our global assistance budget…The cut was not directly linked to the wave of violence that is currently gripping Israel and the Palestinian territories, however, we have made clear our concern about inflammatory rhetoric over these past few weeks.”
    -USDOS spokesman remarks 22 Oct 2015

    Congress was a bit more coercive:

    “We need to dial up pressure on Palestinian officials to repudiate this violence.”
    -Rep. Eliot Engel, D-NY, House Foreign Affairs Committee 22 Oct 2015

    An $80 million cut reduces US aid to Gaza and the West Bank (per capita GDP $4,900) to $290 million. Henceforth each Palestinian will benefit from $62.31/yr in US aid.

    Meanwhile negotiations to increase US aid to Israel (per capita GDP $32,700) to $4.1 billion are underway. This would mean each Israeli benefits from $509/yr in US aid.

    Meddling in US domestic politics, insulting the administration, and energetically working to derail US policy seems to have paid off.

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    • Replies: @bunga
    Words are louder than actions for these psychopaths in charge. They ignore the activities and focus on the speech of some frustrated Palestinians . They punish for letting the steam out in some ineffective violent ideas but not for executing similar violent extremists ideas in real life.


    "Speaking today at the Israeli Knesset’s Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu ratcheted up the rhetoric to a dramatic degree, saying Israel will retain full military control over all of the occupied territories for the “foreseeable future” and dismissing the prospects of Palestinian statehood.Incredibly, during the speech Netanyahu stared down the centrist opposition and declared that Israel “will forever live by the sword,” insisting that it is only the problem of “extreme Islam” that keeps the Palestinians from being potential partners in a two-state solution.

    http://news.antiwar.com/2015/10/26/netanyahu-says-israel-will-retain-all-palestinian-territory/print/
  44. joe webb says:

    .” It is consequently necessary to disarticulate being Israeli from being Jewish. Judaism is a religion and Israel is a foreign country.” (Disarticulate?)

    This is a strange claim. Nation is what Jews are, a tribal nation, just as what nations used to be until the Big Thinkers got into the game of defining a nation as not a national and ethnic matter, but merely a civics lesson whose catechism is Rights, and certainly not Obligations, etc.

    It is a liberal delusion to refuse to recognize that Jews see themselves as a nation, both before and after the conquest of Palestine. If you need help understanding this, read around in the Old Testament, say starting with Deuteronomy.

    The OT is a wonderful “articulation” of a biological and Darwinian discourse on genetic similarity, and strategies to protect nationhood. The Jews have their Nation, while White liberals have their civics and Ideas…repeat after me…we are all racial equals and interchangable parts in the Great Global Village. Jews totally reject these magical Ideas. They are a People, a Nation.

    —–

    more importantly, the frame of reference which the liberal Geraldi sets out in his first paragraph is correct. The hapless college students, befuddled by Ideas (think good thoughts about everybody except Whites) are becoming more hostile to Israel and Jews simply because the Jewish Nation is racial in nature, and because Race does not exist, Jews must be punished.

    Jews are now politically incorrect, an irony probably lost on jews themselves since the jewish nation has led the Pee-Cee movements from the beginning, whether the civil rights movements of the 60s, immigration as a Right movement…actually starting back after the 1924 US immigration law was passed in part to keep out jews and finally repealed in the 1965 immigration act written by jews (Hart and Cellar), of course communism led by jews and their chosen people notion expressed in Leninism’s vanguard party, the jewish NAACP foundation in the 1920s, and on and on into every Freak a hero these days. Many jews continue to promote muzzie immigration both here and in Europe…part of an obsolete strategy to divide and conquer whites.

    In short, jews have pushed for No Borders everywhere except Israel of course. Using the word “border” in another sense, Jews have argued for racial equality, sexual equality, queer equality, and freak equality, etc. No Borders means races are equal and the same, economics needs a borderless world to operate “optimally”, sexual conduct has no misconduct except maybe “consenting adults,” (define adult ) has a border as in kids just might need some protection, even while the Talmud authorizes sex with 3 year olds.

    No Borders means radical and totalitarian equality. Any attempt to distinguish differences in people and races is reactionary and punishable. No borders means no thinking about borders…intellectual, physical, emotional. There are no differences we are all equal, repeat…

    One could go on with the “college” kids and speculate on the sources of the mental illness we see now with kids demanding protection from free speech that might hurt their feelings. I would first guess that the massive ‘go to college’ propaganda and greed of colleges has cast such a wide admissions net that completely unsuited , that is stupid, 18 year old students of all races but especially darker ones, has diminished the natural intellectual resources of “students” and thus since they cannot think, and can only react, they get their feelings hurt and dis free speech.

    So, the Revolution devours its own children, again and again. The Jews have led all the secular revolutions in the West, starting with the Reformation (well, subverting, not leading here).
    They think that Heaven on Earth is possible if only Jerusalem and the Jewish genius for Social Justice is accepted by the goyim. Of course, for their natural leadership role, they must be granted a dispensation to continue their Chosen Race organicism, while the goyim are instructed to miscegenate and be happy in their mixed-blood stupidity.

    Conclusion: the jews are finding that their Revolution is coming up behind them to bite them in the ass, to put it crudely.. Nothing new here except that for our Times, say post world war 2, it is new. Overreach, blowback, nemesis, hoist on their own petard of Revolution and Equality, etc.

    They championed the Negroes and now , as far as the blacks are concerned, will wind up in the cannibal pot. They championed immigration in Europe and the muzzies want to kill them. They championed immigration in the US and now….Whites are starting to catch on.

    They championed racial and sexual and freak equality, and now these kids ‘going to college’ discover that their college degrees get them only barista, etc. jobs. Worthless college degrees and maybe 5 or 6 digit college debt.

    Broken Promises, illusions and delusions, and mob rage against the System. Jews are the most visible section of the System.

    Joe Webb

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  45. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu realizes that the pressure on Israel is, for the first time, serious and has not hesitated to lie outrageously about the slaughter of Jews in Europe during the Second World War. According to Netanyahu, the Palestinian Grand Mufti of Jerusalem gave the idea to Hitler, presumably justifying whatever the Israelis of today choose to do to suppress the current unrest.

    The Tribe is notorious for its spin-meistering excesses.

    Take the Talmud for example: the Talmud for the most part is concerned with giving seals of approval to men raping 3 year old girls and converts to this “religion” having sex with their own biological mother.

    The concept of truth, of truthfulness, of knowledge or anything noble that you find in Christian (or Zoroastrian or Buddhist for that matter) texts DOES NOT EXIST in Judaism.

    The entire corpus of sewer filth known as the “Judaism” doesn’t have a line even remotely similar to, say for example, John 8:32.

    So, where is the surprise, Mr. Giraldi?

    This is their normal behavior. And this’ll hardly be the first time:

    Little or no historiography has been dedicated to peeling back the layers of “refugee” stories to uncover what really happened in the Russian Empire in the years before and during the riots. This lack of historical enquiry can be attributed at least in part to a great reluctance on the part of Jewish historians to investigate the pogroms in any manner beyond the merely superficial. In addition, historical enquiry by non-Jewish historians into the subject has been openly discouraged. For example, when Ukrainian historians discovered evidence proving that contemporary media reports of Jewish casualties in that nation were exaggerated, the Jewish genealogy website ‘JewishGen,’ responded by stating: “We believe that [these facts] are more than irrelevant because it redirects public attention from the major topic: the genocidal essence of pogroms.”

    Full text here

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  46. schmenz says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Israel’s fifty year occupation of the West Bank …continued theft of Arab land
     
    They're just following the example of the Latins' five hundred-year occupation of Iberia and the resultant theft of Arab land. How is the poor Arab race supposed to squeeze into only five million measly square miles?

    A possible compromise: Israel returns the West Bank of the Jordan to its rightful owners, and Araby returns the west bank of the Nile to its. Fair enough?

    “They’re just following the example of the Latins’ five hundred-year occupation of Iberia and the resultant theft of Arab land.”

    Satire, right?

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  47. annamaria says:
    @Sherman
    You are including a link to an article about a pro-Israel professor who was harassed and intimidated by anti-Israel agitators.

    I'm not sure how this is supporting your argument that "Zionists" are suppressing free speech on campus.

    You're shooting yourself in the foot. You're obviously not too bright.

    very gentlemanly, on a par with WoO

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  48. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @Priss Factor
    It's the new prohibitionism.

    Prohibit the dissemination of certain views and idears.

    There's always an ethnic angle to these things.

    One strain of Americanism(esp in New England, for a long time the intellectual and moral center of America) tended to see America as distinct from Old Europe with all its vices.
    In France, Italy, Germany, Ireland, Russia, etc, drinking was far more common, even as part of the culture of the young.
    Americans loved their ale too, but the moralists thought that American habits should be distinct from those of Europeans, just like the American political system, founded on liberty, was different from Europeans ways soaked in the tradition of privilege.

    The ethnic angle of Speech Prohibitionism is Jewish.
    Even apart from the issue of Israel, Jews have been promoting PC to silence the white majority from waking up to their racial consciousness.
    By invoking the needs of the 'powerless' minorities, Jews silence free speech to mute criticism of the powerful elite minority dominated by themselves and homos. The main worry of Jews is not criticism of Israel. It is the criticism of the power of World Jewry, without which Israel's future would be uncertain.

    PS. Speaking of safe spaces, non-blacks deserve havens from black thuggery.

    Of course, colleges and gentrified neighborhoods are indeed just this: safe spaces from the Thugros. But it's an inconvenient fact that Libs don't want to deal with, and so they pretend to care by providing 'safe spaces' within their own communities.

    It's like Hyde Park/University of Chicago area is a safe space protected from the surrounding Negro community.
    But oh my, how could it be that such a 'progressive' community is so 'exclusive' of blacks?
    So, they allow their token black students to create their 'safe space' within the bigger 'safe space' that is Hyde Park. (You can't run but you can Hyde.)
    Keep most blacks out but make those who are allowed in feel that they are so well taken care of by the 'good whites' against the 'bad whites'.

    Back again, you CAMERA Hasbara Troll? If everyone would like to see the agenda of this troll, Priss Factory or Andrea Ostrov Latania or hambaconeggs or whatever the hell he’s calling himself now, then please read the article in the below link about the new strategy of CAMERA Hasbara propagandists for Israel of stoking anti-semitism to try to make people think criticism of Israel is anti-semitic. Priss does this all over this site. He’s a fraud and should be paid no attention, along with the majority of idiotic anti-semitic comments that you read here whom are more than likely part of their CAMERA army who flood any criticism of Israel articles.

    http://www.commondreams.org/hambaconeggs

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    • Replies: @Ronald Thomas West
    Good call in my opinion. Just a few more sites discussing Israeli propaganda efforts:

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2009/jan/09/israel-foreign-ministry-media

    http://www.theguardian.com/media/2006/nov/20/mondaymediasection.israel

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/08/14/israel-pay-students-propaganda_n_3755782.html

    http://www.thejidf.org/

    http://www.techsoar.com/what-is-megaphone-desktop-tool/

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dGJDJoeAok

    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3744516,00.html

    ^ This last, ynet article is by Israelis opposed to the State of Israel sponsoring...

    "Imposters on behalf of the government ... threatening free discourse even if they only wander through the virtual space. The Internet was meant to serve as an open platform for dialogue between people, rather than as a propaganda means"

    ...of course this preceding paragraph points to the ideal, not the reality. And the Israeli leadership seems to be in an entrenched habit of making (often incredibly stupid) mistakes to the detriment of Israel's best interests. So, nobody should be surprised at the pervasiveness of misdirected propaganda endeavors that must ultimately generate anti-Israel sentiment, or that Phil's columns would attract such trolls.
    , @Priss Factor
    I aint got nuttuin to do with Dr. Seuss.
  49. Moi says:
    @Wally
    Mr. Giraldi is almost, but not quite there yet.

    The impossible 'holocau$t' narrative allows the racist Israeli parasites to get away with slaughtering Palestinians and stealing billions from the US taxpayers every year, and then demand that US soldiers die for their greedy self interests.

    - The ‘gas chambers’ as alleged were scientifically impossible, in fact when rationally scrutinized the absurd ’6M Jews' & '5M others’ are shown to be downright laughable.

    - Also note that there is not a single verifiable excavated mass grave that can be actually shown even though Jews claim to know exactly where these allegedly enormous mass graves are.

    - If there was ‘a plan to kill every Jew the Germans could get their hands on’ then why are there countless numbers of so called “survivor$? … who profit mightily.

    - And if the alleged ‘holocau$t’ was fact, then why are there laws in Europe to prevent scrutiny of it? What kind of “truth” needs to imprison people to prevent free speech?

    Remember Je Suis Charlie Hebdo and demands for free speech?

    Get the facts, ask questions, and participate in exposing the ‘holocau$t’ Industry’s lies. Only then will the violent racism of Israel cease

    http://www.codoh.com

    debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

    The 'holocau$t' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives
    ever contrived.

    Thanks.

    In time, the official holocaust story will implode.

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    • Replies: @Wally
    It's already imploding.

    Note that racist Zionists like Netanyahu can't keep their lies straight.

    'O, what a tangled web they weave when first they practise to deceive!'

  50. tbraton says:
    @RobinG
    And you are making less (sense).
    He's implying that Jews once "owned" the west bank of the Nile. That's not even alleged in the OT myths he's relying on, and recently historians are saying that the Moses character and his tribe were never even in Egypt.

    Well, Reg Caesar can speak for himself, but this is what he said: “A possible compromise: Israel returns the West Bank of the Jordan to its rightful owners, and Araby returns the west bank of the Nile to its. Fair enough?” Assuming he meant to say “west bank of the Nile,” I would point out that the west bank of the Nile was never controlled by the Israelis but prior to spread of Islam in the 7th century the people of Egypt, for the most part, did not speak Arabic or have the same ethnic stock as their Arab conquerors. That territory belonged to the Byzantine Empire (aka the Eastern Roman Empire) and practiced largely Christianity. I believe that was what Reg Caesar might have been referring to when he said the “west bank of the Nile” should be returned to its “rightful owners.” That would be the Copts. According to Wikipedia: “Christianity was the religion of the vast majority of Egyptians from 400–800 A.D. and the majority after the Muslim conquest until the mid-10th century[18] and remains the faith of a significant minority population. Historically they spoke the Coptic language, a direct descendant of the Demotic Egyptian spoken in the Roman era, but it has been near-extinct and mostly limited to liturgical use since the 18th century. They now speak Arabic.”

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  51. It is consequently necessary to disarticulate being Israeli from being Jewish. Judaism is a religion and Israel is a foreign country

    I’d take this one step farther; Jewish is also an ethnicity that may or not be Israeli, and may or not adhere to the Jewish faith. There are numerous secular Jews with no affiliation whatsoever with either Israel or a synagogue.

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  52. bunga says:

    Anti-Israel billboard causing controversy in Detroit

    A billboard in the Michigan city of Detroit that reads “America First Not Israel” is arousing accusations anti-Semitism.

    The large sign, placed on the city’s 8 Mile Road, was paid for by “Deir Yassin Remembered,” a New York-based organization that has been posting similar signs throughout the country.

    Although the metro-Detroit area has one of the largest Arab populations outside the Middle East, as well as a sizable Jewish community, the sign was placed in a part of the city that is neither predominantly Jewish nor Muslim.

    In an interview with Detroit’s WXYZ radio, a Fox News affiliate, the Anti-Defamation League’s Heidi Budaj said that the ad and its choice of location is trying to “drive a wedge between the American people and the State of Israel.”

    “This particular sign goes a step further and raises an old anti-Semitic canard of dual loyalty, implying that Jews are not loyal to the country in which they live,” Budaj said. “Make no mistake that, while many of the Jewish people in the United States support the State of Israel as a Jewish state, we are loyal Americans.”http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Anti-Israel-billboard-causing-controversy-in-Detroit-430069

    “America First” addressed to Americans are anti Israel!!!!

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  53. bunga says:

    Unless we maintain a close leash on these dogs, known as war hawks or neocons ,they will bite again America by using American fear and insecurity which in the first place is their own creation – from past Soviet to current Islam .

    http://original.antiwar.com/Dan_Sanchez/2015/10/26/the-empire-strikes-out-2/

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  54. Wally [AKA "BobbyBeGood"] says: • Website
    @Moi
    In time, the official holocaust story will implode.

    It’s already imploding.

    Note that racist Zionists like Netanyahu can’t keep their lies straight.

    ‘O, what a tangled web they weave when first they practise to deceive!’

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    • Replies: @Andrew E. Mathis
    I find it amusing that you call Jews racists. You're clearly racist yourself; one need look no further than your posts here. So one must wonder why you project so much onto Jews. Any response?
  55. bunga says:
    @Marais
    Free speech is also disputed in Congress. “Inflammatory rhetoric” has been used to justify cutting US Palestinian economic aid by $80 million:

    "There were several factors contributing to this decision, including unhelpful actions taken by the Palestinians and constraints on our global assistance budget...The cut was not directly linked to the wave of violence that is currently gripping Israel and the Palestinian territories, however, we have made clear our concern about inflammatory rhetoric over these past few weeks."
    -USDOS spokesman remarks 22 Oct 2015
     
    Congress was a bit more coercive:

    "We need to dial up pressure on Palestinian officials to repudiate this violence."
    -Rep. Eliot Engel, D-NY, House Foreign Affairs Committee 22 Oct 2015
     
    An $80 million cut reduces US aid to Gaza and the West Bank (per capita GDP $4,900) to $290 million. Henceforth each Palestinian will benefit from $62.31/yr in US aid.

    Meanwhile negotiations to increase US aid to Israel (per capita GDP $32,700) to $4.1 billion are underway. This would mean each Israeli benefits from $509/yr in US aid.

    Meddling in US domestic politics, insulting the administration, and energetically working to derail US policy seems to have paid off.

    Words are louder than actions for these psychopaths in charge. They ignore the activities and focus on the speech of some frustrated Palestinians . They punish for letting the steam out in some ineffective violent ideas but not for executing similar violent extremists ideas in real life.

    “Speaking today at the Israeli Knesset’s Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu ratcheted up the rhetoric to a dramatic degree, saying Israel will retain full military control over all of the occupied territories for the “foreseeable future” and dismissing the prospects of Palestinian statehood.Incredibly, during the speech Netanyahu stared down the centrist opposition and declared that Israel “will forever live by the sword,” insisting that it is only the problem of “extreme Islam” that keeps the Palestinians from being potential partners in a two-state solution.

    http://news.antiwar.com/2015/10/26/netanyahu-says-israel-will-retain-all-palestinian-territory/print/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Marais
    It seems the increasingly common rant “Death to Arabs” by Israelis doesn’t merit equal consideration by the USDOS. Let alone utterances like “little snakes” from cabinet officials, or “we will forever live by the sword” by prime ministers.

    It’s increasingly clear Likud wants to fulfill Ben-Gurion’s dreams:

    "After the formation of a large army in the wake of the establishment of the state, we will abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine"
    -Ben-Gurion summer 1937 to the Zionist Executive

    "Were I an Arab, I would rebel even more vigorously, bitterly, and desperately against immigration that will one day turn Palestine and all its Arab residents over to Jewish rule."
    -Ben-Gurion Jun 1937
     
    Brutal treatment (mass arrests, assassinations, extra-judicial detention, demolition, etc), threats (e.g. Al-Aqsa), and derogatory rhetoric seems a strategy to incite rebellion and further reduce the rebels. After all, demolition now includes state confiscation of land. The more ‘terrorists’ and demolitions, the more land for the state.

    The 1943 Warsaw Ghetto Uprising is honored as a righteous, heroic chapter in history. Palestinian ghetto resistance is, on the other hand, the demonic treachery of radical subhumans.
  56. @RobinG
    And you are making less (sense).
    He's implying that Jews once "owned" the west bank of the Nile. That's not even alleged in the OT myths he's relying on, and recently historians are saying that the Moses character and his tribe were never even in Egypt.

    He’s implying that Jews once “owned” the west bank of the Nile.

    Someone needs to read up on the great saints of Alexandria– Mark, Ambrose, Catherine, Leonides, and the rest– and the history of what’s now called “Coptic Cairo”, which is not much of Cairo.

    The only “Jews on the Nile” I might have been referring to were Joseph, Mary, and their Child, who didn’t stay long enough to own anything.

    Read More
  57. @tbraton
    Well, Reg Caesar can speak for himself, but this is what he said: "A possible compromise: Israel returns the West Bank of the Jordan to its rightful owners, and Araby returns the west bank of the Nile to its. Fair enough?" Assuming he meant to say "west bank of the Nile," I would point out that the west bank of the Nile was never controlled by the Israelis but prior to spread of Islam in the 7th century the people of Egypt, for the most part, did not speak Arabic or have the same ethnic stock as their Arab conquerors. That territory belonged to the Byzantine Empire (aka the Eastern Roman Empire) and practiced largely Christianity. I believe that was what Reg Caesar might have been referring to when he said the "west bank of the Nile" should be returned to its "rightful owners." That would be the Copts. According to Wikipedia: "Christianity was the religion of the vast majority of Egyptians from 400–800 A.D. and the majority after the Muslim conquest until the mid-10th century[18] and remains the faith of a significant minority population. Historically they spoke the Coptic language, a direct descendant of the Demotic Egyptian spoken in the Roman era, but it has been near-extinct and mostly limited to liturgical use since the 18th century. They now speak Arabic."

    Hooray! Huzzah! Somebody here can read!!

    Read More
    • Replies: @tbraton
    "Hooray! Huzzah! Somebody here can read!!"

    It's a habit I picked up a few years ago. So, since I clearly won the competition, what's the winning prize? I'm so excited.
  58. @Wally
    It's already imploding.

    Note that racist Zionists like Netanyahu can't keep their lies straight.

    'O, what a tangled web they weave when first they practise to deceive!'

    I find it amusing that you call Jews racists. You’re clearly racist yourself; one need look no further than your posts here. So one must wonder why you project so much onto Jews. Any response?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hugo
    Hmm. Allow me to answer your weak and rather predictable question. 1) I have no problem being called a racist. It's just a bs term that is meant to silence dissent from Whites. 2) the anti -Jewish feelings are a natural response to the manner Jewish people treat others. Simply put, Jews have a horrible history of abusing their hosts. Hence the payback.
  59. tbraton says:
    @Reg Cæsar
    Hooray! Huzzah! Somebody here can read!!

    “Hooray! Huzzah! Somebody here can read!!”

    It’s a habit I picked up a few years ago. So, since I clearly won the competition, what’s the winning prize? I’m so excited.

    Read More
  60. Man, the moment some trailer trash bigot starts talking about the Talmud – a book that the vast majority of non-Hassidc Jews have never read – I hear the laugh track going off.

    Especially when they quote passages that are themselves quotes from some Whack site with LOTS OF EXCLAMATIONS!!! Every few words is boldfaced!111!1! in 5 different fonts, with an animated “mailbox” and a “burning torch.gif” and that looks like it was designed by a 10-year old in 1997.

    Read More
  61. @Junior
    Back again, you CAMERA Hasbara Troll? If everyone would like to see the agenda of this troll, Priss Factory or Andrea Ostrov Latania or hambaconeggs or whatever the hell he's calling himself now, then please read the article in the below link about the new strategy of CAMERA Hasbara propagandists for Israel of stoking anti-semitism to try to make people think criticism of Israel is anti-semitic. Priss does this all over this site. He's a fraud and should be paid no attention, along with the majority of idiotic anti-semitic comments that you read here whom are more than likely part of their CAMERA army who flood any criticism of Israel articles.

    http://www.commondreams.org/hambaconeggs

    Good call in my opinion. Just a few more sites discussing Israeli propaganda efforts:

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2009/jan/09/israel-foreign-ministry-media

    http://www.theguardian.com/media/2006/nov/20/mondaymediasection.israel

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/08/14/israel-pay-students-propaganda_n_3755782.html

    http://www.thejidf.org/

    http://www.techsoar.com/what-is-megaphone-desktop-tool/

    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3744516,00.html

    ^ This last, ynet article is by Israelis opposed to the State of Israel sponsoring…

    “Imposters on behalf of the government … threatening free discourse even if they only wander through the virtual space. The Internet was meant to serve as an open platform for dialogue between people, rather than as a propaganda means”

    …of course this preceding paragraph points to the ideal, not the reality. And the Israeli leadership seems to be in an entrenched habit of making (often incredibly stupid) mistakes to the detriment of Israel’s best interests. So, nobody should be surprised at the pervasiveness of misdirected propaganda endeavors that must ultimately generate anti-Israel sentiment, or that Phil’s columns would attract such trolls.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Junior
    Thanks for posting those articles. The scope of it is breathtaking. The most disturbing part is how proudly they boast about subverting the truth, especially in that video that you posted. For some reason I kept getting the feeling that I was watching people in a cult talking about their can-do-no-wrong-leader. It's chilling how organized it all is.
  62. Avery says:
    @Junior

    Can you substantiate that number ?
    All available estimates are between 1.5 and 1.6 billion.
     
    The Pew Research Center had the number around 1.6 billion in 2010. The projected Pew number in 2030 is 2.2 billion. I tried to figure out what that number would be between the two but I must admit that math isn't my strong suit, so 2 billion seemed a safe round number estimate considering the only other report that I found stated it was 2.08 in 2014 but I wasn't sure how reliable that source is.

    http://www.pewforum.org/2011/01/27/the-future-of-the-global-muslim-population/

    http://muslimpopulation.com/World/


    Any idea what happened to those millions of Christians previously living in Muslim Turkey ?
     
    From what I understand of what happened, the Armenian Genocide in the quest of Turkey to seize land from Armenia. It looks like they lived together in relative peace for many years until the Elite at the top of Turkey used differences in faith as an excuse to steal land from people and tried to wipe them out. The "Muslim" leaders of Turkey used religion as a tool to murder and steal. As it is with most religions, the people in power use peoples faith and differences in faith for power grabs. Same was done to the Muslims in Bosnia and in the Central African Republic by "Christian" leaders. And by "Hindu" and "Muslim" leaders in India to each other. And by Zionist "Jewish" leaders in Israel to Muslims. It has NOTHING to do with religion to the leaders. They PRETEND that it does so that they can control the masses. It's all about power, money, and using religion as a tool to accomplish their goals of more power.

    There are mosques all over Christian Europe.
    Can you please list the existing Christian churches in Saudi Arabia.
     
    And there are Christian churches ALL over the Muslim Middle East. In EVERY single Muslim country except for Saudi Arabia. Condemn Saudi Arabia, NOT the Muslim religion. Can you please list the existing Muslim Mosques in Vatican City?

    {Can you please list the existing Muslim Mosques in Vatican City?}

    As soon as you list Christian Churches in Mecca, equivalent of Vatican City.
    (Original birthplace of Christianity, Jerusalem, is another convoluted matter)

    And there is at least one giant mosque in Rome.
    Again, how many churches in all of Saudi Arabia ?

    {From what I understand of what happened, the Armenian Genocide in the quest of Turkey to seize land from Armenia. It looks like they lived together in relative peace for many years until the Elite at the top of Turkey used differences in faith as an excuse to steal land from people and tried to wipe them out}

    I appreciate you not denying the Armenian Genocide: quite unusual.
    (not single Muslim country recognizes the AG)
    (many Christian countries recognize what Christian Serbs did to Muslim Bosniacs: correct ?)

    But your understanding of why the AG took place and who besides the Elites participated is not complete.
    Neither is your understanding correct that Christians and Muslims lived in relative peace for many years in Ottoman Turkey.
    Far from it.
    But, a long subject for another thread.
    Religion did play a significant role in it, because Sunni Kurds were spared being wiped out by Sunni Turks.
    Only Christians were subjected to Genocide.

    {And there are Christian churches ALL over the Muslim Middle East}

    Yes, there are.
    And that is neither a surprise nor unusual.
    You know why, right ?
    Christianity is about 600 years older than Islam.
    There were no Muslims in Middles East: only Christians and other.
    Those Christian churches that are all over Middle East were there for centuries when Muslim invaders swept in and ethnically cleansed Christians from all over Middle East.
    1000s of Churches were destroyed or converted to Mosques.
    Take a look at Hagia Sophia, and you’ll get the picture.

    Just for the record: I know that not all Muslims are alike, any more than all Christians or other faiths are alike.
    (Nominally) Muslim Arab countries, particularly Syria and Lebanon, took in and saved Christian Armenian survivors of the AG: Armenians will never forget that.
    Christian Armenia is close friends with its neighbor Islamic Republic of Iran.
    Persian and Armenian friendship and genetic links pre-date both Islam and Christianity.

    Individuals are individuals: I have worked in US with lots of Muslims over many years: Pakistanis, Iranians, etc.
    All wonderful individuals.
    But there is a group dynamic: beyond some number, individuals are influenced by the surrounding majority. Very hard to resists group pressure.
    You can look at predominantly Christian countries and societies and compare them to predominantly Muslim countries and societies.
    The differences are undeniable.
    Mosque are being built in Christian Europe today while Churches are being destroyed in Middle East today.

    Read More
    • Replies: @KA
    Avery ,you come with same questions again and again. I have supplied you the facts to rebut your one sided allegations.
    Let me ask you -What happened to the pagan burial and holy sites in Europe? What happened to those who subscribed to those beliefs?
    Typical approach to getting Christianity take root was to convert the noble( ask Martin Luther how he followed the footsteps of the previous generations of leaders ) or kings( Russia, Armenia and Scandinavia) and force the rest to follow suit . In other cases,whole sale massacre of nativeulation and forcible conversion - you can ask someone from Africa,Latin America and N America . They would tell you what transpired.
    Portugese Jesuit even tried in India.they were thrown out of the court by Mughal empire and by the Hindu kings of present day Goa area. The inquisition took place in Goa , India as revenge.
    , @Junior
    I checked out a couple of pictures of the Hagia Sophia. It's definitely one of the most impressive buildings that I've ever seen. It's huge, but I didn't fully realize how big the dome was on the inside until they showed a picture with people inside to give it some perspective of scale. I understand what you're saying about the conversion of it to a Mosque, but strictly speaking from a non-religious architectural point of view, it really is a majestic piece of art.

    I didn't know that the Armenians have closer ties to the Shia because of the shared Persian history rather than the Sunni. Adds a whole new level of dynamics to my attempts at understanding of what's going on in Turkey.

    And I see what you're saying about Churches being destroyed in the ME, this is never really covered in the media. I knew that they were being persecuted but I thought it was all ISIS that was doing it. What little they DO cover of Christians being persecuted in the US media is the "War on Christmas" nonsense that FOX news claims is persecution of Christians just because some cashier isn't allowed to say Merry Christmas. FOX falsely cries wolf about persecution of Christians so much that I've always sort of tuned it out, but thanks for reminding me that REAL Christian persecutions are still occurring. It's always odd to me that in America which is predominately Christian, so little coverage is given to the plight of Christians in the ME, but I guess that goes to show just how unwilling the media and establishment are to talk about anything that might upset their agenda... just like their refusal to acknowledge the Armenian Genocide.

    It seems to me that with ISIS getting pushed out of Syria and undoubtedly into Turkey, that Turkey is the next powder keg that is about to be lit. And with our ties through NATO it could very easily lead to WW3 and so I've been trying to find out more about it. But I don't want to crowd this comment section that's supposed to be about Israel with Turkey. As you said, "a long subject for another thread." :)

    Thanks for sharing the knowledge Avery.

  63. Marais says:
    @bunga
    Words are louder than actions for these psychopaths in charge. They ignore the activities and focus on the speech of some frustrated Palestinians . They punish for letting the steam out in some ineffective violent ideas but not for executing similar violent extremists ideas in real life.


    "Speaking today at the Israeli Knesset’s Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu ratcheted up the rhetoric to a dramatic degree, saying Israel will retain full military control over all of the occupied territories for the “foreseeable future” and dismissing the prospects of Palestinian statehood.Incredibly, during the speech Netanyahu stared down the centrist opposition and declared that Israel “will forever live by the sword,” insisting that it is only the problem of “extreme Islam” that keeps the Palestinians from being potential partners in a two-state solution.

    http://news.antiwar.com/2015/10/26/netanyahu-says-israel-will-retain-all-palestinian-territory/print/

    It seems the increasingly common rant “Death to Arabs” by Israelis doesn’t merit equal consideration by the USDOS. Let alone utterances like “little snakes” from cabinet officials, or “we will forever live by the sword” by prime ministers.

    It’s increasingly clear Likud wants to fulfill Ben-Gurion’s dreams:

    “After the formation of a large army in the wake of the establishment of the state, we will abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine”
    -Ben-Gurion summer 1937 to the Zionist Executive

    “Were I an Arab, I would rebel even more vigorously, bitterly, and desperately against immigration that will one day turn Palestine and all its Arab residents over to Jewish rule.”
    -Ben-Gurion Jun 1937

    Brutal treatment (mass arrests, assassinations, extra-judicial detention, demolition, etc), threats (e.g. Al-Aqsa), and derogatory rhetoric seems a strategy to incite rebellion and further reduce the rebels. After all, demolition now includes state confiscation of land. The more ‘terrorists’ and demolitions, the more land for the state.

    The 1943 Warsaw Ghetto Uprising is honored as a righteous, heroic chapter in history. Palestinian ghetto resistance is, on the other hand, the demonic treachery of radical subhumans.

    Read More
    • Replies: @schmenz
    "The 1943 Warsaw Ghetto Uprising is honored as a righteous, heroic chapter in history. Palestinian ghetto resistance is, on the other hand, the demonic treachery of radical subhumans."

    Beautifully stated. Thank you.
  64. […] article originally appeared on the Unz Review under the title “Israel Takes On the First Amendment: Free speech except regarding Palestine.” The photo is of Richard Blum and Dianne Feinstein at a pro-Israel rally in San Francisco, […]

    Read More
  65. annamaria says:

    Bibi has put himself in a house of glass and forced other people to look at the history (well-documented) of a collaboration between Zionists and Nazis.
    “Hannah Arendt, in her 1960 book “Eichmann in Jerusalem: A Report in the Banality of Evil,” writes: “To a Jew this role of the Jewish leaders in the destruction of their own people is undoubtedly the darkest chapter of the whole dark story.”
    Author-researcher Lenni Brenner wrote of Zionist-Nazi collusion in “Zionism in the Age of Dictators,” of which the London Times stated: “Brenner is able to cite numerous cases where Zionists collaborated with anti-Semitic regimes, including Hitler’s.”
    Brenner’s second book on the topic, “51 Documents, Zionist Collaboration with the Nazis,” includes a 1940 letter from underground Zionist terrorist leader Avraham Stern proposing that Jewish militias would fight on Germany’s side in exchange for Nazi help in creating an “historic Jewish state.”

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/03/04/denying-nazi-zionist-collusion/

    http://www.amazon.com/Zionism-Age-Dictators-Lenni-Brenner/dp/0985890991

    http://www.amazon.com/51-Documents-Zionist-Collaboration-Nazis/dp/1569804338

    Read More
  66. KA says:
    @Avery
    {Can you please list the existing Muslim Mosques in Vatican City?}

    As soon as you list Christian Churches in Mecca, equivalent of Vatican City.
    (Original birthplace of Christianity, Jerusalem, is another convoluted matter)

    And there is at least one giant mosque in Rome.
    Again, how many churches in all of Saudi Arabia ?


    {From what I understand of what happened, the Armenian Genocide in the quest of Turkey to seize land from Armenia. It looks like they lived together in relative peace for many years until the Elite at the top of Turkey used differences in faith as an excuse to steal land from people and tried to wipe them out}

    I appreciate you not denying the Armenian Genocide: quite unusual.
    (not single Muslim country recognizes the AG)
    (many Christian countries recognize what Christian Serbs did to Muslim Bosniacs: correct ?)

    But your understanding of why the AG took place and who besides the Elites participated is not complete.
    Neither is your understanding correct that Christians and Muslims lived in relative peace for many years in Ottoman Turkey.
    Far from it.
    But, a long subject for another thread.
    Religion did play a significant role in it, because Sunni Kurds were spared being wiped out by Sunni Turks.
    Only Christians were subjected to Genocide.

    {And there are Christian churches ALL over the Muslim Middle East}

    Yes, there are.
    And that is neither a surprise nor unusual.
    You know why, right ?
    Christianity is about 600 years older than Islam.
    There were no Muslims in Middles East: only Christians and other.
    Those Christian churches that are all over Middle East were there for centuries when Muslim invaders swept in and ethnically cleansed Christians from all over Middle East.
    1000s of Churches were destroyed or converted to Mosques.
    Take a look at Hagia Sophia, and you’ll get the picture.

    Just for the record: I know that not all Muslims are alike, any more than all Christians or other faiths are alike.
    (Nominally) Muslim Arab countries, particularly Syria and Lebanon, took in and saved Christian Armenian survivors of the AG: Armenians will never forget that.
    Christian Armenia is close friends with its neighbor Islamic Republic of Iran.
    Persian and Armenian friendship and genetic links pre-date both Islam and Christianity.


    Individuals are individuals: I have worked in US with lots of Muslims over many years: Pakistanis, Iranians, etc.
    All wonderful individuals.
    But there is a group dynamic: beyond some number, individuals are influenced by the surrounding majority. Very hard to resists group pressure.
    You can look at predominantly Christian countries and societies and compare them to predominantly Muslim countries and societies.
    The differences are undeniable.
    Mosque are being built in Christian Europe today while Churches are being destroyed in Middle East today.

    Avery ,you come with same questions again and again. I have supplied you the facts to rebut your one sided allegations.
    Let me ask you -What happened to the pagan burial and holy sites in Europe? What happened to those who subscribed to those beliefs?
    Typical approach to getting Christianity take root was to convert the noble( ask Martin Luther how he followed the footsteps of the previous generations of leaders ) or kings( Russia, Armenia and Scandinavia) and force the rest to follow suit . In other cases,whole sale massacre of nativeulation and forcible conversion – you can ask someone from Africa,Latin America and N America . They would tell you what transpired.
    Portugese Jesuit even tried in India.they were thrown out of the court by Mughal empire and by the Hindu kings of present day Goa area. The inquisition took place in Goa , India as revenge.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Avery
    {I have supplied you the facts to rebut your one sided allegations.}

    You have supplied nothing to rebut my facts.
    Armenian Genocide at the hands of Muslim Turks is not allegation.
    Assyrian Genocide at the hands of Muslim Turks is not allegation.
    Pontic Greek Genocide at the hands of Muslim Turks is not allegation.
    Christianity being 600 older than Islam is not an allegation.
    Islam violently spreading from Mecca in Arabia and ethnically cleansing the entire Middle East of its indigenous Christian populations is not an allegation.

    Conversion to Christianity was by and large done by persuasion and proselytizing.
    Conversion to Islam was by and large done at the point of the blade: ask forcibly Islamized Armenians. Those that are alive and were not slaughtered because they refused to convert to Islam, that is.

    Anything else ?

    btw: see if you can find an example where Muslims living in Christian West are told to convert or die.

    [Isis takes Iraq’s largest Christian town as residents told – 'leave, convert or die']
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/isis-takes-iraq-s-largest-christian-town-of-qaraqosh-9653789.html

    , @schmenz
    Could I respectfully suggest that you read several brilliant histories that might give you a different perspective on some of your claims? Two immediately come to mind, and by the same author, William Thomas Walsh: "Isabella of Spain" and "Philip II".

    When I read those, the scales fell from my eyes.
  67. Priss Factor [AKA "The Priss Factory"] says:
    @Junior
    Back again, you CAMERA Hasbara Troll? If everyone would like to see the agenda of this troll, Priss Factory or Andrea Ostrov Latania or hambaconeggs or whatever the hell he's calling himself now, then please read the article in the below link about the new strategy of CAMERA Hasbara propagandists for Israel of stoking anti-semitism to try to make people think criticism of Israel is anti-semitic. Priss does this all over this site. He's a fraud and should be paid no attention, along with the majority of idiotic anti-semitic comments that you read here whom are more than likely part of their CAMERA army who flood any criticism of Israel articles.

    http://www.commondreams.org/hambaconeggs

    I aint got nuttuin to do with Dr. Seuss.

    Read More
  68. Avery says:
    @KA
    Avery ,you come with same questions again and again. I have supplied you the facts to rebut your one sided allegations.
    Let me ask you -What happened to the pagan burial and holy sites in Europe? What happened to those who subscribed to those beliefs?
    Typical approach to getting Christianity take root was to convert the noble( ask Martin Luther how he followed the footsteps of the previous generations of leaders ) or kings( Russia, Armenia and Scandinavia) and force the rest to follow suit . In other cases,whole sale massacre of nativeulation and forcible conversion - you can ask someone from Africa,Latin America and N America . They would tell you what transpired.
    Portugese Jesuit even tried in India.they were thrown out of the court by Mughal empire and by the Hindu kings of present day Goa area. The inquisition took place in Goa , India as revenge.

    {I have supplied you the facts to rebut your one sided allegations.}

    You have supplied nothing to rebut my facts.
    Armenian Genocide at the hands of Muslim Turks is not allegation.
    Assyrian Genocide at the hands of Muslim Turks is not allegation.
    Pontic Greek Genocide at the hands of Muslim Turks is not allegation.
    Christianity being 600 older than Islam is not an allegation.
    Islam violently spreading from Mecca in Arabia and ethnically cleansing the entire Middle East of its indigenous Christian populations is not an allegation.

    Conversion to Christianity was by and large done by persuasion and proselytizing.
    Conversion to Islam was by and large done at the point of the blade: ask forcibly Islamized Armenians. Those that are alive and were not slaughtered because they refused to convert to Islam, that is.

    Anything else ?

    btw: see if you can find an example where Muslims living in Christian West are told to convert or die.

    [Isis takes Iraq’s largest Christian town as residents told – 'leave, convert or die']

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/isis-takes-iraq-s-largest-christian-town-of-qaraqosh-9653789.html

    Read More
    • Replies: @KA
    You are pathetic.
    , @KA
    I just finished listening to the lecture series from the Great Courses " Renissnace and Refommation , and the Rise of Nations" by Prof Andrew C Fix of Lafatette College in Easton,PA.
    That will give you some good ideas of the rise of Protestansim in Germany, nature of Calvinism , the degeneration of Anna Bapstism. forceful inter conversion of Huegrnot, Catholicism, and the piety of Bloody Mary or the Berthomeow murder . These were taking place in 16 th century .
    Now you can read the book -Cult of the Roman Empire by Turcan ,A History of Pagan Europe by Prudence Jones and Nigel Pennick and some real good stuff from A History of Christianity by Paul Johnson.

    On your favorite -Armenian Genocide I suggest you re read the article from the North Western University's history professor ( you were provided with the link published in Chicago Tribune)

    Truth hurts .
  69. KA says:
    @Avery
    {I have supplied you the facts to rebut your one sided allegations.}

    You have supplied nothing to rebut my facts.
    Armenian Genocide at the hands of Muslim Turks is not allegation.
    Assyrian Genocide at the hands of Muslim Turks is not allegation.
    Pontic Greek Genocide at the hands of Muslim Turks is not allegation.
    Christianity being 600 older than Islam is not an allegation.
    Islam violently spreading from Mecca in Arabia and ethnically cleansing the entire Middle East of its indigenous Christian populations is not an allegation.

    Conversion to Christianity was by and large done by persuasion and proselytizing.
    Conversion to Islam was by and large done at the point of the blade: ask forcibly Islamized Armenians. Those that are alive and were not slaughtered because they refused to convert to Islam, that is.

    Anything else ?

    btw: see if you can find an example where Muslims living in Christian West are told to convert or die.

    [Isis takes Iraq’s largest Christian town as residents told – 'leave, convert or die']
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/isis-takes-iraq-s-largest-christian-town-of-qaraqosh-9653789.html

    You are pathetic.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Avery
    {You are pathetic.}

    It has been my experience battling Denialists in the blogosphere for years, that when I corner them with facts and figures, their one last parting shot, in desperation to save any remnants of their tattered pride, is to hurl a personal insult at me.

    I am glad you did not disappoint me.
    Have a great day.
    Everyday.

    btw: I have been called all sorts of things by those whom I have intellectually crushed. A lot worse than 'pathetic'.
    And those are the ones that got posted.
    Who knows what else was sent my way that moderators flushed.
    I wish they had published them though: makes me feel really good to have driven the vile denialists nuts.

  70. Avery says:
    @KA
    You are pathetic.

    {You are pathetic.}

    It has been my experience battling Denialists in the blogosphere for years, that when I corner them with facts and figures, their one last parting shot, in desperation to save any remnants of their tattered pride, is to hurl a personal insult at me.

    I am glad you did not disappoint me.
    Have a great day.
    Everyday.

    btw: I have been called all sorts of things by those whom I have intellectually crushed. A lot worse than ‘pathetic’.
    And those are the ones that got posted.
    Who knows what else was sent my way that moderators flushed.
    I wish they had published them though: makes me feel really good to have driven the vile denialists nuts.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art
    "It has been my experience battling Denialists in the blogosphere for years"

    Little Avery,

    Sorry Little Jew - but you are losing - every day there are more and more good people who believe that you Jews are pulling the wool over their eyes.

    Your King of the Jews - Little Davie Netanyahu - is not helping you Little Jews by changing the whole holocaust story - poor you.

    Art
    , @KA
    http://www.unz.com/ishamir/russia-vetoes-genocide/#comment-1033379
    The moderators had to step in to curb your rabid anti Muslim enthusiasm in 73 and 74 comments
    You don't learn! Have you ever? When supplied with truths ,you just make things up tearing everything out of contexts.
    Don't you?
    Hey pathetic is the farthest that I can go. As far lies and motivated distortions are concerned ,it seems your imagination is the only restraining factor
    .
    Lets try it this old refernce again

    ( I have given you already a plenty )
    ----

    KA
    July 19, 2015 at 1:15 pm GMT • 400 Words
    @Avery
    “Armenian story has another side
    October 16, 2007|By Norman Stone, a historian and the author of “World War I: A Short History”

    -n 1914, when World War I began in earnest, Armenians living in what is now Turkey attempted to set up a national state. Armenians revolted against the Ottoman government, began what we would now call “ethnic cleansing” of the local Turks. Their effort failed and caused the government to deport most Armenians from the area of the revolt for security reasons. Their sufferings en route are well-known.

    First, allegedly critical evidence of the crime consists of forgeries. The British were in occupation of Istanbul for four years after the war and examined all of the files of the Ottoman government. They found nothing, and therefore could not try the 100-odd supposed Turkish war criminals that they were holding. Then, documents turned up, allegedly telegrams from the interior ministry to the effect that all Armenians should be wiped out. The signatures turned out to be wrong, there were no back-up copies in the archives and the dating system was misunderstood.

    There are many other arguments against a supposed genocide of the Armenians. Their leader was offered a post in the Turkish Cabinet in 1914, and turned it down. When the deportations were under way, the populations of the big cities were exempted — Istanbul, Izmir, Aleppo, where there were huge concentrations of Armenians. There were indeed well-documented and horrible massacres of the deportee columns, and the Turks themselves tried more than 1,300 men for these crimes in 1916, convicted many and executed several. None of this squares with genocide, as we classically understand it. Finally, it is just not true that historians as a whole support the genocide thesis. The people who know the background and the language (Ottoman Turkish is terribly difficult) are divided, and those who do not accept the genocide thesis are weightier. The Armenian lobby contends that these independent and highly esteemed historians are simply “Ottomanists” — a ridiculously arrogant dismissal.

    Unfortunately, the issue has never reached a properly constituted court. If the Armenians were convinced of their own case, they would have taken it to one. Instead, they lobby bewildered or bored parliamentary assemblies to “recognize the genocide.”
    Let historians decide. The Turkish government has been saying this for years. It is the Armenians who refuse to take part in a joint historical review, even when organized by impeccably neutral academics. This review is the logical and most sensible path forward.

    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2007-10-16/news/0710150364_1_armenians-ottoman-
    , @Hunsdon
    Denialists? Is that a religion, an ethny, or a nation? Or is it a little of all three?
  71. KA says:
    @Avery
    {I have supplied you the facts to rebut your one sided allegations.}

    You have supplied nothing to rebut my facts.
    Armenian Genocide at the hands of Muslim Turks is not allegation.
    Assyrian Genocide at the hands of Muslim Turks is not allegation.
    Pontic Greek Genocide at the hands of Muslim Turks is not allegation.
    Christianity being 600 older than Islam is not an allegation.
    Islam violently spreading from Mecca in Arabia and ethnically cleansing the entire Middle East of its indigenous Christian populations is not an allegation.

    Conversion to Christianity was by and large done by persuasion and proselytizing.
    Conversion to Islam was by and large done at the point of the blade: ask forcibly Islamized Armenians. Those that are alive and were not slaughtered because they refused to convert to Islam, that is.

    Anything else ?

    btw: see if you can find an example where Muslims living in Christian West are told to convert or die.

    [Isis takes Iraq’s largest Christian town as residents told – 'leave, convert or die']
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/isis-takes-iraq-s-largest-christian-town-of-qaraqosh-9653789.html

    I just finished listening to the lecture series from the Great Courses ” Renissnace and Refommation , and the Rise of Nations” by Prof Andrew C Fix of Lafatette College in Easton,PA.
    That will give you some good ideas of the rise of Protestansim in Germany, nature of Calvinism , the degeneration of Anna Bapstism. forceful inter conversion of Huegrnot, Catholicism, and the piety of Bloody Mary or the Berthomeow murder . These were taking place in 16 th century .
    Now you can read the book -Cult of the Roman Empire by Turcan ,A History of Pagan Europe by Prudence Jones and Nigel Pennick and some real good stuff from A History of Christianity by Paul Johnson.

    On your favorite -Armenian Genocide I suggest you re read the article from the North Western University’s history professor ( you were provided with the link published in Chicago Tribune)

    Truth hurts .

    Read More
    • Replies: @Avery
    {Truth hurts .}

    You ought to know.
    You are the one who resorts to personal insults in desperation when confronted with facts.

    Try again.
    I am all ears.
  72. Art says:
    @Junior

    Clearly our Bill of Rights is meaningless to them.
     
    And clearly this article is meaningless to you. You might want to re-read the part about "Judaism is a religion."

    She is the number one gun grabbing Jew in America.
     
    And did you know that the number one not-gonna-let'em-grab-our-guns President of the NRA after Charlton Heston was a Jew, Sandra Froman and that she estimated that about 10% of the NRA Board of Directors are Jewish?

    Stop acting like an anti-semitic idiot.

    http://www.jweekly.com/article/full/26661/top-gun/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandra_Froman

    “And did you know that the number one not-gonna-let’em-grab-our-guns President of the NRA after Charlton Heston was a Jew, Sandra Froman and that she estimated that about 10% of the NRA Board of Directors are Jewish?”

    There is a fifth column Jew in every American institution. When push comes to shove, the Little Jew will get a call from a Big Jew and he will sabotage the institution for the tribe – end of story.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Junior

    There is a fifth column Jew in every American institution. When push comes to shove, the Little Jew will get a call from a Big Jew and he will sabotage the institution for the tribe – end of story.
     
    I gotta admit, that was funny. Ignorant... but funny.

    Tell me, Art, which size Jew was Jesus?

    Because you DO realize that he was Jewish, don't ya Art? Not a Zionist, a Jew.
  73. Svigor says:

    And did you know that the number one not-gonna-let’em-grab-our-guns President of the NRA after Charlton Heston was a Jew, Sandra Froman and that she estimated that about 10% of the NRA Board of Directors are Jewish?

    Stop acting like an anti-semitic idiot.

    Jews brag openly (mostly in the Jewish press) about how instrumental they are to the anti-2nd-Amendment movement. Stop being a misanthropic idiot.

    It’s amazing to me how many people still carry water for the Jews, given how they shit on both the left and the right. ‘Course, many of them are themselves Jews…

    Read More
    • Replies: @Junior

    Jews brag openly (mostly in the Jewish press) about how instrumental they are to the anti-2nd-Amendment movement.
     
    Yep and Catholics brag openly about how instrumental they are to the anti-2nd-Amendment movement also. Does that mean that the Catholic current President of the NRA, Wayne LaPierre, is lying also because some people in his religion are against guns? What's your point?

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/19/catholic-america-repeal-second-amendment_n_2717442.html
  74. Svigor says:

    Cutting through all the hoity-toity, “I am so offended” by them Jews nonsense here…… The obvious bottom line here is that the Israeli Jews have the balls to defend their nation from murderous Muslims. While Europe/Germany welcomes the Muslim invasion from Syria in the South and other failed Muslim states. How about that gynocracy called Sweden inviting them in by the boatloads?

    Like this well-trained cuckservative.

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  75. Art says:
    @Avery
    {You are pathetic.}

    It has been my experience battling Denialists in the blogosphere for years, that when I corner them with facts and figures, their one last parting shot, in desperation to save any remnants of their tattered pride, is to hurl a personal insult at me.

    I am glad you did not disappoint me.
    Have a great day.
    Everyday.

    btw: I have been called all sorts of things by those whom I have intellectually crushed. A lot worse than 'pathetic'.
    And those are the ones that got posted.
    Who knows what else was sent my way that moderators flushed.
    I wish they had published them though: makes me feel really good to have driven the vile denialists nuts.

    “It has been my experience battling Denialists in the blogosphere for years”

    Little Avery,

    Sorry Little Jew – but you are losing – every day there are more and more good people who believe that you Jews are pulling the wool over their eyes.

    Your King of the Jews – Little Davie Netanyahu – is not helping you Little Jews by changing the whole holocaust story – poor you.

    Art

    Read More
    • Replies: @Avery
    {Little Avery,
    .....Little Jew}

    Wow: your intellectual superiority and the command of the English language is overwhelming.
    And you too prove, again, that when confronted with facts and figures, and impeccable logic, youse blow your stack and go nuts.

    btw: homes. I am not little, and I am not a Jew.
    Not that there is anything wrong with it (....to paraphrase Seinfeld. pssst, he is a Jew).

    I am Armenian.
    Armenian Apostolic Christian.
    Average height, average build.
    Average intelligence.
    Even with average intelligence, I am able to drive youse Islamofascists nuts.
    So there.

    btw: this site on which you are spreading your anti-Jewish venom was founded by a Jew and is being paid for by a Jew. If you hate Jews so much, why are you moochers spreading your anti-Jewish hate on a Jew's dime ? Why don't you Islamofascists start your own Islamist site and have an Islamorgasm 24x7 spewing anti-Jewish venom.

    How about it ?

    , @Junior

    Your King of the Jews – Little Davie Netanyahu
     
    And how about the actual proclaimed King of the Jews, Jesus? Is he helping you Art, or is he ruining your little "blame all the Jews" game because he was one? Kinda screws up your whole idiotic narrative don't it?
  76. Svigor says:

    The funny thing is how people project this need for a “conspiracy” onto Jews (and Jews and their water-carriers exploit this). Nope, Jewish ethnocentrism and aggressiveness and victim mentality (the last two being outgrowths of the former) are all that’s needed. Unlike others, Jews don’t need a “conspiracy” to act the way they do; if anything, their behavior is an inevitable outcome of their psychological profile.

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  77. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @Avery
    {Can you please list the existing Muslim Mosques in Vatican City?}

    As soon as you list Christian Churches in Mecca, equivalent of Vatican City.
    (Original birthplace of Christianity, Jerusalem, is another convoluted matter)

    And there is at least one giant mosque in Rome.
    Again, how many churches in all of Saudi Arabia ?


    {From what I understand of what happened, the Armenian Genocide in the quest of Turkey to seize land from Armenia. It looks like they lived together in relative peace for many years until the Elite at the top of Turkey used differences in faith as an excuse to steal land from people and tried to wipe them out}

    I appreciate you not denying the Armenian Genocide: quite unusual.
    (not single Muslim country recognizes the AG)
    (many Christian countries recognize what Christian Serbs did to Muslim Bosniacs: correct ?)

    But your understanding of why the AG took place and who besides the Elites participated is not complete.
    Neither is your understanding correct that Christians and Muslims lived in relative peace for many years in Ottoman Turkey.
    Far from it.
    But, a long subject for another thread.
    Religion did play a significant role in it, because Sunni Kurds were spared being wiped out by Sunni Turks.
    Only Christians were subjected to Genocide.

    {And there are Christian churches ALL over the Muslim Middle East}

    Yes, there are.
    And that is neither a surprise nor unusual.
    You know why, right ?
    Christianity is about 600 years older than Islam.
    There were no Muslims in Middles East: only Christians and other.
    Those Christian churches that are all over Middle East were there for centuries when Muslim invaders swept in and ethnically cleansed Christians from all over Middle East.
    1000s of Churches were destroyed or converted to Mosques.
    Take a look at Hagia Sophia, and you’ll get the picture.

    Just for the record: I know that not all Muslims are alike, any more than all Christians or other faiths are alike.
    (Nominally) Muslim Arab countries, particularly Syria and Lebanon, took in and saved Christian Armenian survivors of the AG: Armenians will never forget that.
    Christian Armenia is close friends with its neighbor Islamic Republic of Iran.
    Persian and Armenian friendship and genetic links pre-date both Islam and Christianity.


    Individuals are individuals: I have worked in US with lots of Muslims over many years: Pakistanis, Iranians, etc.
    All wonderful individuals.
    But there is a group dynamic: beyond some number, individuals are influenced by the surrounding majority. Very hard to resists group pressure.
    You can look at predominantly Christian countries and societies and compare them to predominantly Muslim countries and societies.
    The differences are undeniable.
    Mosque are being built in Christian Europe today while Churches are being destroyed in Middle East today.

    I checked out a couple of pictures of the Hagia Sophia. It’s definitely one of the most impressive buildings that I’ve ever seen. It’s huge, but I didn’t fully realize how big the dome was on the inside until they showed a picture with people inside to give it some perspective of scale. I understand what you’re saying about the conversion of it to a Mosque, but strictly speaking from a non-religious architectural point of view, it really is a majestic piece of art.

    I didn’t know that the Armenians have closer ties to the Shia because of the shared Persian history rather than the Sunni. Adds a whole new level of dynamics to my attempts at understanding of what’s going on in Turkey.

    And I see what you’re saying about Churches being destroyed in the ME, this is never really covered in the media. I knew that they were being persecuted but I thought it was all ISIS that was doing it. What little they DO cover of Christians being persecuted in the US media is the “War on Christmas” nonsense that FOX news claims is persecution of Christians just because some cashier isn’t allowed to say Merry Christmas. FOX falsely cries wolf about persecution of Christians so much that I’ve always sort of tuned it out, but thanks for reminding me that REAL Christian persecutions are still occurring. It’s always odd to me that in America which is predominately Christian, so little coverage is given to the plight of Christians in the ME, but I guess that goes to show just how unwilling the media and establishment are to talk about anything that might upset their agenda… just like their refusal to acknowledge the Armenian Genocide.

    It seems to me that with ISIS getting pushed out of Syria and undoubtedly into Turkey, that Turkey is the next powder keg that is about to be lit. And with our ties through NATO it could very easily lead to WW3 and so I’ve been trying to find out more about it. But I don’t want to crowd this comment section that’s supposed to be about Israel with Turkey. As you said, “a long subject for another thread.” :)

    Thanks for sharing the knowledge Avery.

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  78. Svigor says:

    Man, the moment some trailer trash bigot starts talking about the Talmud – a book that the vast majority of non-Hassidc Jews have never read – I hear the laugh track going off.

    Especially when they quote passages that are themselves quotes from some Whack site with LOTS OF EXCLAMATIONS!!! Every few words is boldfaced!111!1! in 5 different fonts, with an animated “mailbox” and a “burning torch.gif” and that looks like it was designed by a 10-year old in 1997.

    1. Judaism still has a large “echo” effect in Jewish culture, even secular Jewish culture.
    2. Judaism reflects the character of the people who created it, a character that has largely survived to the present day.

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  79. Avery says:
    @KA
    I just finished listening to the lecture series from the Great Courses " Renissnace and Refommation , and the Rise of Nations" by Prof Andrew C Fix of Lafatette College in Easton,PA.
    That will give you some good ideas of the rise of Protestansim in Germany, nature of Calvinism , the degeneration of Anna Bapstism. forceful inter conversion of Huegrnot, Catholicism, and the piety of Bloody Mary or the Berthomeow murder . These were taking place in 16 th century .
    Now you can read the book -Cult of the Roman Empire by Turcan ,A History of Pagan Europe by Prudence Jones and Nigel Pennick and some real good stuff from A History of Christianity by Paul Johnson.

    On your favorite -Armenian Genocide I suggest you re read the article from the North Western University's history professor ( you were provided with the link published in Chicago Tribune)

    Truth hurts .

    {Truth hurts .}

    You ought to know.
    You are the one who resorts to personal insults in desperation when confronted with facts.

    Try again.
    I am all ears.

    Read More
    • Replies: @KA
    Why don't you provide some links? I have provided you with the resources that are based on Western and Christian scholarship .
    I will give you a few more. 1 :WSJ 28/3/97 Editorial " Heaven on Earth" that explained how Kiev pagan prince Vladimir got converted to Christianity .
    2 Readers Digest-AFTER JESUS
    THE TRIUMPH of CHRISTIANITY that traces violent evolution of Chrostianity both doctrinally and numerically across Egypt,Asia Minor,( Turkey, Palestine, Syria, ) and Rome .
    On page 261" Around 400 ,pagans probably made up the majority still of the empire's population; nonetheless they learned to avoid attracting attention lest they be forced to convert"
    The page quotes actual threat to life of the pagan that he could only escape :" I am therefore thinking of the danger to my life,and so off I now go to the church,to evade the death that otherwise awaits me"- by embracing Christianity .
    Rome,Alexandria,Constantinople even Spain had been rife with dissenting views of Christianity . The brand and the forceful conversion to their brand continued for centuries even after the Nicea Council . More council came and went. Coptic,Monophysites,Arian,Chalcededian,Nestorian,Orthodoxy thrived and fought with one another all claims eternal truths . Large population fought against one another and against Pagan . They destroyed the architectures and tempes and institutions of the pagan including Serapeum in 391, and killed Hypatia in 415 .
    Asia Minor and Egypt fcontinued to follow its own ideas of Jesus and maintained large scale presence even in the time of Crusade . But as Cathars of S France were killed for being heretic,so were these branches never accepted but they could not be killed because they were protected by Moslem.
    Here the book by T W Arnold "
    THE PREACHING OF ISLAM
    A HISTORY OF PROPAGATION OF MUSLIM FAITH" would offer a glimpse into the factors that led to the spread of Islam.
    Arab considered Islam as their own religion and not to be shared , a belief that was widespread but not based on any doctrine. They did not try to convert for first 150 yrs . The schism of Christianity and violent relations among those branches gave Islam foothold among the conquered people of Asia Minor and N Africa. These colonies of Christianity also lost contacts with other centers of Christianity slowly gradually after collapse of Roman Empire . Church was getting poorer . The local Christians of Asia Minor ,Alexandria,and Persia actually fought with the Arabs against the practically independent Roman colonies of N Africa and Asia Minor.
    From 661 to 1187 and beypnd AD, the Christians were found in the Arab as court poet ,counsellor to the Caliph ,even the position equivalent to the Secretary of State ,tutor to the young children of the royal houses, even the Medicine , business and official Public Treasury were controlled by Arab Christian (. Something today's Caliphate seeking ISIS should learn ) These officials maintained their Christian identities .( page 63 -101) Churches and monasteries were built as late as 1187 AD . Nestorians enjoyed a remarkable "outbursts of religious life and energy after they had become subject to the Muslims" who until then were the victims of Persian and Byzantium religious rivalry.
    Islam is no less bloody or no less merciful than Christianity when compared over a longer period of time .
    But if you keep on harping on the past to secure a future of your kind,chances are you will fail.
    Neither Christianty,nor Buddhism,nor Islam in their genesis tried to shape a future based on the sectarian bitterness ,grievances,or disputes of the bygone era. They built something taking cues and lessons from the past. They charted a new course .
    The world today stands again at that crossroad .
  80. Avery says:
    @Art
    "It has been my experience battling Denialists in the blogosphere for years"

    Little Avery,

    Sorry Little Jew - but you are losing - every day there are more and more good people who believe that you Jews are pulling the wool over their eyes.

    Your King of the Jews - Little Davie Netanyahu - is not helping you Little Jews by changing the whole holocaust story - poor you.

    Art

    {Little Avery,
    …..Little Jew}

    Wow: your intellectual superiority and the command of the English language is overwhelming.
    And you too prove, again, that when confronted with facts and figures, and impeccable logic, youse blow your stack and go nuts.

    btw: homes. I am not little, and I am not a Jew.
    Not that there is anything wrong with it (….to paraphrase Seinfeld. pssst, he is a Jew).

    I am Armenian.
    Armenian Apostolic Christian.
    Average height, average build.
    Average intelligence.
    Even with average intelligence, I am able to drive youse Islamofascists nuts.
    So there.

    btw: this site on which you are spreading your anti-Jewish venom was founded by a Jew and is being paid for by a Jew. If you hate Jews so much, why are you moochers spreading your anti-Jewish hate on a Jew’s dime ? Why don’t you Islamofascists start your own Islamist site and have an Islamorgasm 24×7 spewing anti-Jewish venom.

    How about it ?

    Read More
  81. Ivan says:

    It is not just First Amendment rights that are corrupted by shilling for blockhead Zionism, but any intellectual heft that American intellectuals once had. For example, a general piece on pre-emptive war has to be written with one eye on Israel’s sacred right to preempt any perceived enemy. Or the principle of not going abroad searching for dragons to fight, as endorsed by all the great American presidents, has to be modulated to make exceptions again, for those who would rather that their right wither, than forget Zion.

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  82. Mojo says:

    If there are any right politics to be played by the western democracy it needs to start by boycotting Israel and by all means. European are very good at talking, so as USG and others; however, the words without action have no meaning or it we’ll lose its meaning in time, which is the reason for Israel being what it is today and what has become of Palestinians rights.

    Read More
  83. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @Art
    "And did you know that the number one not-gonna-let’em-grab-our-guns President of the NRA after Charlton Heston was a Jew, Sandra Froman and that she estimated that about 10% of the NRA Board of Directors are Jewish?"

    There is a fifth column Jew in every American institution. When push comes to shove, the Little Jew will get a call from a Big Jew and he will sabotage the institution for the tribe – end of story.

    There is a fifth column Jew in every American institution. When push comes to shove, the Little Jew will get a call from a Big Jew and he will sabotage the institution for the tribe – end of story.

    I gotta admit, that was funny. Ignorant… but funny.

    Tell me, Art, which size Jew was Jesus?

    Because you DO realize that he was Jewish, don’t ya Art? Not a Zionist, a Jew.

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  84. Ivan says:
    @Ivan
    It is not just First Amendment rights that are corrupted by shilling for blockhead Zionism, but any intellectual heft that American intellectuals once had. For example, a general piece on pre-emptive war has to be written with one eye on Israel's sacred right to preempt any perceived enemy. Or the principle of not going abroad searching for dragons to fight, as endorsed by all the great American presidents, has to be modulated to make exceptions again, for those who would rather that their right wither, than forget Zion.

    …rather that their right hand wither…

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  85. Amazing. The USA’s infrastructure is quickly turning into a mess, looking like a 3rd world country and many Americans don’t seem to care, as they spend a lot of their time praising and defending their actual country of loyalty, Israel.

    Americans should be having a serious discussion on why we don’t repair and fund our infrastructure, but instead we have ‘patriotic’ Americans going above and beyond the call of duty praising and defending the world’s #1 terrorist state, Israel.

    When our nation finally looks like some backwater African nation, consisting of only the rich, the super-rich and the poor, all of you bozos spending so much time defending a nation that has attacked the USA numerous times and has their confederates on Wall Street looting our wealth, Israel, you can sit back and pat yourself on the back for the damage you’ve done by always steering the conversation towards the praise and defense of Israel.

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  86. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @Svigor

    And did you know that the number one not-gonna-let’em-grab-our-guns President of the NRA after Charlton Heston was a Jew, Sandra Froman and that she estimated that about 10% of the NRA Board of Directors are Jewish?

    Stop acting like an anti-semitic idiot.
     
    Jews brag openly (mostly in the Jewish press) about how instrumental they are to the anti-2nd-Amendment movement. Stop being a misanthropic idiot.

    It's amazing to me how many people still carry water for the Jews, given how they shit on both the left and the right. 'Course, many of them are themselves Jews...

    Jews brag openly (mostly in the Jewish press) about how instrumental they are to the anti-2nd-Amendment movement.

    Yep and Catholics brag openly about how instrumental they are to the anti-2nd-Amendment movement also. Does that mean that the Catholic current President of the NRA, Wayne LaPierre, is lying also because some people in his religion are against guns? What’s your point?

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/19/catholic-america-repeal-second-amendment_n_2717442.html

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  87. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @Art
    "It has been my experience battling Denialists in the blogosphere for years"

    Little Avery,

    Sorry Little Jew - but you are losing - every day there are more and more good people who believe that you Jews are pulling the wool over their eyes.

    Your King of the Jews - Little Davie Netanyahu - is not helping you Little Jews by changing the whole holocaust story - poor you.

    Art

    Your King of the Jews – Little Davie Netanyahu

    And how about the actual proclaimed King of the Jews, Jesus? Is he helping you Art, or is he ruining your little “blame all the Jews” game because he was one? Kinda screws up your whole idiotic narrative don’t it?

    Read More
  88. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @Ronald Thomas West
    Good call in my opinion. Just a few more sites discussing Israeli propaganda efforts:

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2009/jan/09/israel-foreign-ministry-media

    http://www.theguardian.com/media/2006/nov/20/mondaymediasection.israel

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/08/14/israel-pay-students-propaganda_n_3755782.html

    http://www.thejidf.org/

    http://www.techsoar.com/what-is-megaphone-desktop-tool/

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dGJDJoeAok

    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3744516,00.html

    ^ This last, ynet article is by Israelis opposed to the State of Israel sponsoring...

    "Imposters on behalf of the government ... threatening free discourse even if they only wander through the virtual space. The Internet was meant to serve as an open platform for dialogue between people, rather than as a propaganda means"

    ...of course this preceding paragraph points to the ideal, not the reality. And the Israeli leadership seems to be in an entrenched habit of making (often incredibly stupid) mistakes to the detriment of Israel's best interests. So, nobody should be surprised at the pervasiveness of misdirected propaganda endeavors that must ultimately generate anti-Israel sentiment, or that Phil's columns would attract such trolls.

    Thanks for posting those articles. The scope of it is breathtaking. The most disturbing part is how proudly they boast about subverting the truth, especially in that video that you posted. For some reason I kept getting the feeling that I was watching people in a cult talking about their can-do-no-wrong-leader. It’s chilling how organized it all is.

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  89. This Is Our Home [AKA "Robert Rediger"] says:

    The effort to expose Israelis as bad thinkers shows that even the supposedly traditional right cannot resist virtue signalling and victim claiming.

    There’s an example of a first world nation successfully resisting the tides of multiculturalism and all we can do is point and splutter. We’re hopeless. Is our culture dying or is it already dead?

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  90. All of the three, Jewish, Christian, and Muslim, have their histories of aggression and their better moments and personalities. It looks cyclical. No one of the three can claim a higher moral ground from a historical perspective. The Jews’ own account indicates they’d conquered Canaan via the sword, little different to the Muslim expansion at a later date. Meanwhile the Northern Crusade of the Christians destroying the Pagan kingdoms in Europe looks just like the rest. Whether it’s any or all of the three slaughtering ‘unbelievers’ whether Goy, Infidel or Pagan, then or now, it’s all in the name of the same God. Maybe that’s the problem.

    Read More
  91. […] “Israel Takes On the First Amendment”  Allowing World Jewry to take complete control over the university system was one of America’s biggest mistakes. […]

    Read More
  92. Judaism is a religion and Israel is a foreign country.

    Judaism fully accepts atheist, agnostics, and Buddhist as genuine Jewish.

    That fact should be a clue to anyone that Judaism is not a religion.

    It was inevitable that Jews would be at the center of a firestorm surrounding the first amendments.

    It was Jewish diversity lobbyists that pushed for many violations of the first amendment, including::

    1. Hate speech criminalization
    2. Pornography protected as free speech
    3. Government hostility and discrimination toward all religions, except Judaism
    4. Government persecution of the right of the people peaceably to assemble and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. (free speech zones)
    5. People cannot boycott or advocate the boycott of Israeli products
    6. Taxpayer monies for NGOs that promote hate speech criminalization

    Read More
  93. alexander says:

    Dear Mr Giraldi,

    Another excellent article….thank you.

    It seems that in the interest of basic american justice , if one is free to criticize, seek boycotts or sanctions toward “any” foreign government for its policies….than one should be free to criticize all.

    If its “legal”” fair” and “accepted” to criticize,condemn and sanction, lets say Iran or Russia for its”alleged” behavior how can it be different to criticize ,condemn and sanction ” Israel ” for its behavior ?

    One yardstick, one standard, and there is justice for all.

    Two yardsticks , two standards, and there is justice for none.

    Read More
  94. KA says:
    @Avery
    {Truth hurts .}

    You ought to know.
    You are the one who resorts to personal insults in desperation when confronted with facts.

    Try again.
    I am all ears.

    Why don’t you provide some links? I have provided you with the resources that are based on Western and Christian scholarship .
    I will give you a few more. 1 :WSJ 28/3/97 Editorial ” Heaven on Earth” that explained how Kiev pagan prince Vladimir got converted to Christianity .
    2 Readers Digest-AFTER JESUS
    THE TRIUMPH of CHRISTIANITY that traces violent evolution of Chrostianity both doctrinally and numerically across Egypt,Asia Minor,( Turkey, Palestine, Syria, ) and Rome .
    On page 261″ Around 400 ,pagans probably made up the majority still of the empire’s population; nonetheless they learned to avoid attracting attention lest they be forced to convert”
    The page quotes actual threat to life of the pagan that he could only escape :” I am therefore thinking of the danger to my life,and so off I now go to the church,to evade the death that otherwise awaits me”- by embracing Christianity .
    Rome,Alexandria,Constantinople even Spain had been rife with dissenting views of Christianity . The brand and the forceful conversion to their brand continued for centuries even after the Nicea Council . More council came and went. Coptic,Monophysites,Arian,Chalcededian,Nestorian,Orthodoxy thrived and fought with one another all claims eternal truths . Large population fought against one another and against Pagan . They destroyed the architectures and tempes and institutions of the pagan including Serapeum in 391, and killed Hypatia in 415 .
    Asia Minor and Egypt fcontinued to follow its own ideas of Jesus and maintained large scale presence even in the time of Crusade . But as Cathars of S France were killed for being heretic,so were these branches never accepted but they could not be killed because they were protected by Moslem.
    Here the book by T W Arnold ”
    THE PREACHING OF ISLAM
    A HISTORY OF PROPAGATION OF MUSLIM FAITH” would offer a glimpse into the factors that led to the spread of Islam.
    Arab considered Islam as their own religion and not to be shared , a belief that was widespread but not based on any doctrine. They did not try to convert for first 150 yrs . The schism of Christianity and violent relations among those branches gave Islam foothold among the conquered people of Asia Minor and N Africa. These colonies of Christianity also lost contacts with other centers of Christianity slowly gradually after collapse of Roman Empire . Church was getting poorer . The local Christians of Asia Minor ,Alexandria,and Persia actually fought with the Arabs against the practically independent Roman colonies of N Africa and Asia Minor.
    From 661 to 1187 and beypnd AD, the Christians were found in the Arab as court poet ,counsellor to the Caliph ,even the position equivalent to the Secretary of State ,tutor to the young children of the royal houses, even the Medicine , business and official Public Treasury were controlled by Arab Christian (. Something today’s Caliphate seeking ISIS should learn ) These officials maintained their Christian identities .( page 63 -101) Churches and monasteries were built as late as 1187 AD . Nestorians enjoyed a remarkable “outbursts of religious life and energy after they had become subject to the Muslims” who until then were the victims of Persian and Byzantium religious rivalry.
    Islam is no less bloody or no less merciful than Christianity when compared over a longer period of time .
    But if you keep on harping on the past to secure a future of your kind,chances are you will fail.
    Neither Christianty,nor Buddhism,nor Islam in their genesis tried to shape a future based on the sectarian bitterness ,grievances,or disputes of the bygone era. They built something taking cues and lessons from the past. They charted a new course .
    The world today stands again at that crossroad .

    Read More
  95. Svigor says:

    Because you DO realize that he was Jewish, don’t ya Art? Not a Zionist, a Jew.

    Funny how Jews only claim him in this sort of context. Then they go back to bashing and disavowing him and the religion centered around him.

    Yep and Catholics brag openly about how instrumental they are to the anti-2nd-Amendment movement also. Does that mean that the Catholic current President of the NRA, Wayne LaPierre, is lying also because some people in his religion are against guns? What’s your point?

    Catholicism is a real religion, not an ethnic-tribal one like Judaism, so I never find such comparisons particularly apt. As for who’s more important to the anti-2nd-Amendment movement, I wouldn’t know; leaving aside the numbers, maybe Jews aren’t as smart as everyone thinks, and thus they aren’t all that good at what they do.

    As for whether or not “Catholics do it too” – it seems like a weak defense for Jewish prominence in anti-2nd-Amendment activism.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Santoculto
    Idiotic psychopanths think ''constant repetition'' is a key to persuade.
  96. KA says:
    @Avery
    {You are pathetic.}

    It has been my experience battling Denialists in the blogosphere for years, that when I corner them with facts and figures, their one last parting shot, in desperation to save any remnants of their tattered pride, is to hurl a personal insult at me.

    I am glad you did not disappoint me.
    Have a great day.
    Everyday.

    btw: I have been called all sorts of things by those whom I have intellectually crushed. A lot worse than 'pathetic'.
    And those are the ones that got posted.
    Who knows what else was sent my way that moderators flushed.
    I wish they had published them though: makes me feel really good to have driven the vile denialists nuts.

    http://www.unz.com/ishamir/russia-vetoes-genocide/#comment-1033379

    The moderators had to step in to curb your rabid anti Muslim enthusiasm in 73 and 74 comments
    You don’t learn! Have you ever? When supplied with truths ,you just make things up tearing everything out of contexts.
    Don’t you?
    Hey pathetic is the farthest that I can go. As far lies and motivated distortions are concerned ,it seems your imagination is the only restraining factor
    .
    Lets try it this old refernce again

    ( I have given you already a plenty )
    —-

    KA
    July 19, 2015 at 1:15 pm GMT • 400 Words

    “Armenian story has another side
    October 16, 2007|By Norman Stone, a historian and the author of “World War I: A Short History”

    -n 1914, when World War I began in earnest, Armenians living in what is now Turkey attempted to set up a national state. Armenians revolted against the Ottoman government, began what we would now call “ethnic cleansing” of the local Turks. Their effort failed and caused the government to deport most Armenians from the area of the revolt for security reasons. Their sufferings en route are well-known.

    First, allegedly critical evidence of the crime consists of forgeries. The British were in occupation of Istanbul for four years after the war and examined all of the files of the Ottoman government. They found nothing, and therefore could not try the 100-odd supposed Turkish war criminals that they were holding. Then, documents turned up, allegedly telegrams from the interior ministry to the effect that all Armenians should be wiped out. The signatures turned out to be wrong, there were no back-up copies in the archives and the dating system was misunderstood.

    There are many other arguments against a supposed genocide of the Armenians. Their leader was offered a post in the Turkish Cabinet in 1914, and turned it down. When the deportations were under way, the populations of the big cities were exempted — Istanbul, Izmir, Aleppo, where there were huge concentrations of Armenians. There were indeed well-documented and horrible massacres of the deportee columns, and the Turks themselves tried more than 1,300 men for these crimes in 1916, convicted many and executed several. None of this squares with genocide, as we classically understand it. Finally, it is just not true that historians as a whole support the genocide thesis. The people who know the background and the language (Ottoman Turkish is terribly difficult) are divided, and those who do not accept the genocide thesis are weightier. The Armenian lobby contends that these independent and highly esteemed historians are simply “Ottomanists” — a ridiculously arrogant dismissal.

    Unfortunately, the issue has never reached a properly constituted court. If the Armenians were convinced of their own case, they would have taken it to one. Instead, they lobby bewildered or bored parliamentary assemblies to “recognize the genocide.”
    Let historians decide. The Turkish government has been saying this for years. It is the Armenians who refuse to take part in a joint historical review, even when organized by impeccably neutral academics. This review is the logical and most sensible path forward.

    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2007-10-16/news/0710150364_1_armenians-ottoman-

    Read More
    • Replies: @geokat62

    Let historians decide. The Turkish government has been saying this for years.
     
    This issue has already been decided by historians. That's why:

    As of 2015, the governments of 28 countries, including Russia, Brazil, France, Germany and Canada as well as 43 states of the United States of America, have recognized the events as 'genocide'. The governments of Turkey and Azerbaijan deny the Armenian Genocide.
     
    , @Avery
    {The moderators had to step in to curb your rabid anti Muslim enthusiasm in 73 and 74 comments}

    You are a little confused: the one posting under the moniker Moderator is not the moderator.
    He is a Denialist like you.

    And don't bother giving out nonsensical Denialist links: I have seen them all.
    And I know all about paid denialist so-called 'intellectuals' on Turks' payroll.
    All the denialist disinformation has been debunked over and over.

    Now, what else have you got ?

  97. pan says:

    Dear Mr Giraldi,

    A modest suggestion for a related article.

    The assault on BDS and any criticism of Israeli policy is accelerating. The Israeli-firsters are not content with merely muzzling all criticism as they have in the past, they are now attempting to legislate against any such criticism.

    A case is point are the so-called trade agreements, TPP and TIPP, where the Israeli-firsters have utilized their control of Congress to leverage their agenda directly onto the international forum.

    Aipac and its congressional minions have quietly inserted legislation into these agreements whereby signatory governments (representing most of the industrialized countries) will be obligated to acting against the BDS movement and criticism of Israel.

    U.S. Trade Bill With EU Includes Landmark anti-BDS Provisions

    http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.663743

    and

    AIPAC behind new US/EU trade legislation designed to thwart BDS

    http://mondoweiss.net/2015/02/behind-legislation-designed

    The money line:
    … threatening the conditioning of the US-EU free trade pact on the EU taking action to stop BDS activities within its jurisdictions,”

    Read More
  98. schmenz says:
    @Marais
    It seems the increasingly common rant “Death to Arabs” by Israelis doesn’t merit equal consideration by the USDOS. Let alone utterances like “little snakes” from cabinet officials, or “we will forever live by the sword” by prime ministers.

    It’s increasingly clear Likud wants to fulfill Ben-Gurion’s dreams:

    "After the formation of a large army in the wake of the establishment of the state, we will abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine"
    -Ben-Gurion summer 1937 to the Zionist Executive

    "Were I an Arab, I would rebel even more vigorously, bitterly, and desperately against immigration that will one day turn Palestine and all its Arab residents over to Jewish rule."
    -Ben-Gurion Jun 1937
     
    Brutal treatment (mass arrests, assassinations, extra-judicial detention, demolition, etc), threats (e.g. Al-Aqsa), and derogatory rhetoric seems a strategy to incite rebellion and further reduce the rebels. After all, demolition now includes state confiscation of land. The more ‘terrorists’ and demolitions, the more land for the state.

    The 1943 Warsaw Ghetto Uprising is honored as a righteous, heroic chapter in history. Palestinian ghetto resistance is, on the other hand, the demonic treachery of radical subhumans.

    “The 1943 Warsaw Ghetto Uprising is honored as a righteous, heroic chapter in history. Palestinian ghetto resistance is, on the other hand, the demonic treachery of radical subhumans.”

    Beautifully stated. Thank you.

    Read More
  99. schmenz says:
    @KA
    Avery ,you come with same questions again and again. I have supplied you the facts to rebut your one sided allegations.
    Let me ask you -What happened to the pagan burial and holy sites in Europe? What happened to those who subscribed to those beliefs?
    Typical approach to getting Christianity take root was to convert the noble( ask Martin Luther how he followed the footsteps of the previous generations of leaders ) or kings( Russia, Armenia and Scandinavia) and force the rest to follow suit . In other cases,whole sale massacre of nativeulation and forcible conversion - you can ask someone from Africa,Latin America and N America . They would tell you what transpired.
    Portugese Jesuit even tried in India.they were thrown out of the court by Mughal empire and by the Hindu kings of present day Goa area. The inquisition took place in Goa , India as revenge.

    Could I respectfully suggest that you read several brilliant histories that might give you a different perspective on some of your claims? Two immediately come to mind, and by the same author, William Thomas Walsh: “Isabella of Spain” and “Philip II”.

    When I read those, the scales fell from my eyes.

    Read More
  100. geokat62 says:
    @KA
    http://www.unz.com/ishamir/russia-vetoes-genocide/#comment-1033379
    The moderators had to step in to curb your rabid anti Muslim enthusiasm in 73 and 74 comments
    You don't learn! Have you ever? When supplied with truths ,you just make things up tearing everything out of contexts.
    Don't you?
    Hey pathetic is the farthest that I can go. As far lies and motivated distortions are concerned ,it seems your imagination is the only restraining factor
    .
    Lets try it this old refernce again

    ( I have given you already a plenty )
    ----

    KA
    July 19, 2015 at 1:15 pm GMT • 400 Words
    @Avery
    “Armenian story has another side
    October 16, 2007|By Norman Stone, a historian and the author of “World War I: A Short History”

    -n 1914, when World War I began in earnest, Armenians living in what is now Turkey attempted to set up a national state. Armenians revolted against the Ottoman government, began what we would now call “ethnic cleansing” of the local Turks. Their effort failed and caused the government to deport most Armenians from the area of the revolt for security reasons. Their sufferings en route are well-known.

    First, allegedly critical evidence of the crime consists of forgeries. The British were in occupation of Istanbul for four years after the war and examined all of the files of the Ottoman government. They found nothing, and therefore could not try the 100-odd supposed Turkish war criminals that they were holding. Then, documents turned up, allegedly telegrams from the interior ministry to the effect that all Armenians should be wiped out. The signatures turned out to be wrong, there were no back-up copies in the archives and the dating system was misunderstood.

    There are many other arguments against a supposed genocide of the Armenians. Their leader was offered a post in the Turkish Cabinet in 1914, and turned it down. When the deportations were under way, the populations of the big cities were exempted — Istanbul, Izmir, Aleppo, where there were huge concentrations of Armenians. There were indeed well-documented and horrible massacres of the deportee columns, and the Turks themselves tried more than 1,300 men for these crimes in 1916, convicted many and executed several. None of this squares with genocide, as we classically understand it. Finally, it is just not true that historians as a whole support the genocide thesis. The people who know the background and the language (Ottoman Turkish is terribly difficult) are divided, and those who do not accept the genocide thesis are weightier. The Armenian lobby contends that these independent and highly esteemed historians are simply “Ottomanists” — a ridiculously arrogant dismissal.

    Unfortunately, the issue has never reached a properly constituted court. If the Armenians were convinced of their own case, they would have taken it to one. Instead, they lobby bewildered or bored parliamentary assemblies to “recognize the genocide.”
    Let historians decide. The Turkish government has been saying this for years. It is the Armenians who refuse to take part in a joint historical review, even when organized by impeccably neutral academics. This review is the logical and most sensible path forward.

    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2007-10-16/news/0710150364_1_armenians-ottoman-

    Let historians decide. The Turkish government has been saying this for years.

    This issue has already been decided by historians. That’s why:

    As of 2015, the governments of 28 countries, including Russia, Brazil, France, Germany and Canada as well as 43 states of the United States of America, have recognized the events as ‘genocide’. The governments of Turkey and Azerbaijan deny the Armenian Genocide.

    Read More
    • Replies: @geokat62
    Oh, just in case you wanted supporting evidence:

    The overwhelming majority of historians as well as academic institutions on Holocaust and Genocide Studies recognize the Armenian Genocide.

    http://www.teachgenocide.com/files/DocsMaps/A%20Brief%20History%20of%20the%20Armenian%20Genocide.pdf
     
    P.S. Phil, has the edit function been disabled for everyone, or am I the only one experiencing difficulties?
    , @Avery
    geocat62:

    Denialist will continue denying: they have to. Their genocidal state, Turkey, is built on lies and denial. But the ring is slowly closing around the criminal, genocidal state.

    http://www.dw.com/en/german-president-gauck-labels-ottoman-massacre-of-armenians-genocide/a-18404147

    [ German President Joachim Gauck made his speech at a nondenominational religious service at Berlin Cathedral on Thursday, the eve of the 100th anniversary of the bloodshed that is estimated to have led to the deaths of as many as 1.5 million Armenians.

    In the highly anticipated speech, Gauck spoke of a "genocidal dynamic to which the Armenian people fell victim," and of "systematic acts of murder."

    The president went on to use the word "genocide" directly in a passage referring to the possible complicity of Germany , a World War One ally of the Ottoman Empire, in the events a century ago. German troops were alleged to have been involved in planning and even implementing deportations.

    "In this case, we Germans collectively still have to come to terms with the past, namely when it comes to shared responsibility and perhaps even complicity in the genocide of the Armenians."

    Turkey has fiercely lobbied to stop countries recognizing the 1915 massacres as genocide. It recalled its ambassador to the Vatican earlier this month after Pope Francis used the term. On Thursday, it recalled its ambassador in Vienna over a condemnation of the killings as genocide by Austrian lawmakers.]
  101. geokat62 says:
    @geokat62

    Let historians decide. The Turkish government has been saying this for years.
     
    This issue has already been decided by historians. That's why:

    As of 2015, the governments of 28 countries, including Russia, Brazil, France, Germany and Canada as well as 43 states of the United States of America, have recognized the events as 'genocide'. The governments of Turkey and Azerbaijan deny the Armenian Genocide.
     

    Oh, just in case you wanted supporting evidence:

    The overwhelming majority of historians as well as academic institutions on Holocaust and Genocide Studies recognize the Armenian Genocide.

    http://www.teachgenocide.com/files/DocsMaps/A%20Brief%20History%20of%20the%20Armenian%20Genocide.pdf

    P.S. Phil, has the edit function been disabled for everyone, or am I the only one experiencing difficulties?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Philip Giraldi
    Dunno - I don't handle the technical side and what I see on my screen is different than what you see. It's working for me. I'll check...
    , @KA
    Thank you.
    But this is all that you got.
    Page from 333 to 337 and one refernce on page 337
    Henry Morgenthau, Ambassador Morgenthau’s Story

    May be there are more solid arguments by experts with more evidences. But this link isn't the one . May be it is the product of the scientific endeavor or the result of some conference . May be it is the position paper of the expert .
    But there is nothing at the bottom suggesting that is the case .excepting the reference to corroborate Henry Morgenthan
  102. @geokat62
    Oh, just in case you wanted supporting evidence:

    The overwhelming majority of historians as well as academic institutions on Holocaust and Genocide Studies recognize the Armenian Genocide.

    http://www.teachgenocide.com/files/DocsMaps/A%20Brief%20History%20of%20the%20Armenian%20Genocide.pdf
     
    P.S. Phil, has the edit function been disabled for everyone, or am I the only one experiencing difficulties?

    Dunno – I don’t handle the technical side and what I see on my screen is different than what you see. It’s working for me. I’ll check…

    Read More
    • Replies: @Philip Giraldi
    Geokat - I have been advised that the comment edit function is working normally!
  103. @Philip Giraldi
    Dunno - I don't handle the technical side and what I see on my screen is different than what you see. It's working for me. I'll check...

    Geokat – I have been advised that the comment edit function is working normally!

    Read More
    • Replies: @geokat62
    Thanks, Phil... appreciate it. Time to get a new phone, I suppose.
    , @geokat62
    Phil, sorry for troubling you again, but I just noticed that another commenter (S2C in another thread, Germany Against Itself) just indicated that "the edit function is not working." I've tried using other devices and I even had a colleague of mine use their device and in all cases, the edit function was disabled. Are the techies sure this issue isn't more widespread?

    In my case, every one of my comments immediately says it is "awaiting moderation" as soon as I click the "Publish Comment" button... affording me no opportunity to edit all my typos.

    Perhaps other commenters could indicate if they are experiencing the same issue
  104. geokat62 says:
    @Philip Giraldi
    Geokat - I have been advised that the comment edit function is working normally!

    Thanks, Phil… appreciate it. Time to get a new phone, I suppose.

    Read More
  105. alexander says:

    Dear Mr Giraldi,

    I recall nearly seven years ago when our young president, Barach Obama, announced (correctly)that the lynch pin and epicenter of middle east violence was the Israel/Palestine conflict..

    I recall his firm resolution to negotiate the internationally accepted two state solution and bring it to fruition while he was in office.

    I recall his key demands on Palestinians…..stop all acts of terrorism

    I recall his key demands on Israel…….Stop all settlement construction in the Occupied Palestinian Territories…

    I recall nearly all if not all acts of violence perpetrated by Palestinians stopped…

    I recall all the settlement construction.’shockingly” continued….and I remember Vice president Joe Biden being greeted in his visit to Israel with the announcement of new settlement construction….not their cessation.

    I remember the President enlisting the services of the P 5 plus one with Catherine Ashton as lead negotiator to help bring a reasonable and just resolution to this conflict…

    I recall how close the President and the world powers were to enforcing the settlement freeze with a possible resolution in the UN..

    And then….like a perfectly timed curve ball..or man-made tidal wave..the” Iranian Nuclear scare” seemed to swamp every single newspaper and media outlet in this country ……

    It seemed to suck up all the(political) air in the room that was meant for the two state solution..

    President Obama, instead of closing the deal on Palestine….and taking the two state solution to the finish line….

    Spent the last year and a half working the “Iran deal”…..leaving the “epicenter” conflict of Israel/Palestine to wither and die….or perhaps fester and boil over.

    Like some act of” global extortion” to derail the creation of a ‘Palestinian “state and a just resolution to the conflict , Mr Netanyahu’s threat of war against the “Iranian Nuclear menace” suddenly took center stage…

    All the incriminating evidence for which, turns out,( according to the most thorough reporter on the topic, Gareth Porter) to be based on a”phony laptop ” supplied by the MEK to the IAEA with(one surmises) Mossad hand prints all over it.

    President Obama may have successfully closed the Iran deal, and kudos for that…..but in leaving Israel /Palestine out to wash……in “un” resolving the heart of all the middle east conflicts….he has ensuring their continuance.

    It as a bitter pill for all of us…..

    As it must be for him.

    I must say as I watched the link of the Israeli posers masquerading as Palestinian protesters…initiating and encouraging violence against the I.D.F. so as to precipitate the shooting of and violent suppression of Palestinians ….the true terrorists in the equation seem to be plain for all to see…

    What a sad and sorry state of affairs.

    Read More
  106. Rich says:
    @Junior

    Clearly our Bill of Rights is meaningless to them.
     
    And clearly this article is meaningless to you. You might want to re-read the part about "Judaism is a religion."

    She is the number one gun grabbing Jew in America.
     
    And did you know that the number one not-gonna-let'em-grab-our-guns President of the NRA after Charlton Heston was a Jew, Sandra Froman and that she estimated that about 10% of the NRA Board of Directors are Jewish?

    Stop acting like an anti-semitic idiot.

    http://www.jweekly.com/article/full/26661/top-gun/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandra_Froman

    Charlton Heston, born John Charles Carter, was an Episcopalian of Scottish and English heritage. He played Moses, but that was just a movie.

    Read More
  107. Priss Factor [AKA "The Priss Factory"] says:

    The West went from tribalism to legalism.

    Identity no longer defined by blood of ancestry but by law of citizenship.

    Then the West went from legalism to alegalism. (alegal is akin to asexual)

    Laws were no longer clearly defined but made ultra-’fluid’ to mean just about anything.
    So, ‘gay marriage’ is real marriage and in the Constitution.

    Then the West went from alegalism to illegalism where even blatant violations of the law are permitted. Corrupt Jews can do as they please, and masses of invaders can pour in and be called ‘dreamers’, ‘refugees’, or ‘Syrians’.

    So, what is free speech in this environment. It is what the Jewish-Homo(Jomo)oligarchy and PC dogs say it is.

    Read More
  108. KA says:
    @Sherman
    Nobody in Israel has ever claimed that "all Jews, wherever they live, are citizens of Israel".

    Israeli law states that Jews around the world are entitled to Israeli citizenship if they choose to live in Israel.

    Big difference.

    No there is no big difference. Jews fleeing from justice from US and Russia have been given citizenship on arrival and not been extradited to the parent country.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Carroll Price
    I couldn't find the quote, but to paraphrase Adolph Hitler, he once said that one of the reasons Jews desired a state of their own, was so they could have a place in which to practice thievery and treachery while shielded from prosecution.
  109. Hunsdon says:
    @Avery
    {You are pathetic.}

    It has been my experience battling Denialists in the blogosphere for years, that when I corner them with facts and figures, their one last parting shot, in desperation to save any remnants of their tattered pride, is to hurl a personal insult at me.

    I am glad you did not disappoint me.
    Have a great day.
    Everyday.

    btw: I have been called all sorts of things by those whom I have intellectually crushed. A lot worse than 'pathetic'.
    And those are the ones that got posted.
    Who knows what else was sent my way that moderators flushed.
    I wish they had published them though: makes me feel really good to have driven the vile denialists nuts.

    Denialists? Is that a religion, an ethny, or a nation? Or is it a little of all three?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Avery
    If you tell me what an 'ethny' is, I will tell you.
    , @Junior

    Denialists? Is that a religion, an ethny, or a nation? Or is it a little of all three?
     
    Well from what I hear, it ain't just a river in Egypt :)
  110. @Sherman
    Nobody in Israel has ever claimed that "all Jews, wherever they live, are citizens of Israel".

    Israeli law states that Jews around the world are entitled to Israeli citizenship if they choose to live in Israel.

    Big difference.

    How about; ‘all Jews wherever they live are de-facto citizens of Israel.’ Small difference.

    Read More
  111. […] The UNZ Israel Takes On the First Amendment Free speech except regarding Palestine by PHILIP GIRALD… […]

    Read More
  112. @KA
    No there is no big difference. Jews fleeing from justice from US and Russia have been given citizenship on arrival and not been extradited to the parent country.

    I couldn’t find the quote, but to paraphrase Adolph Hitler, he once said that one of the reasons Jews desired a state of their own, was so they could have a place in which to practice thievery and treachery while shielded from prosecution.

    Read More
  113. Avery says:
    @Hunsdon
    Denialists? Is that a religion, an ethny, or a nation? Or is it a little of all three?

    If you tell me what an ‘ethny’ is, I will tell you.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hunsdon
    Well let's say that "ethny" means "ethnicity" or a genetically distinct (albeit with perhaps fuzzy boundaries) subgroup of the population.
  114. Avery says:
    @KA
    http://www.unz.com/ishamir/russia-vetoes-genocide/#comment-1033379
    The moderators had to step in to curb your rabid anti Muslim enthusiasm in 73 and 74 comments
    You don't learn! Have you ever? When supplied with truths ,you just make things up tearing everything out of contexts.
    Don't you?
    Hey pathetic is the farthest that I can go. As far lies and motivated distortions are concerned ,it seems your imagination is the only restraining factor
    .
    Lets try it this old refernce again

    ( I have given you already a plenty )
    ----

    KA
    July 19, 2015 at 1:15 pm GMT • 400 Words
    @Avery
    “Armenian story has another side
    October 16, 2007|By Norman Stone, a historian and the author of “World War I: A Short History”

    -n 1914, when World War I began in earnest, Armenians living in what is now Turkey attempted to set up a national state. Armenians revolted against the Ottoman government, began what we would now call “ethnic cleansing” of the local Turks. Their effort failed and caused the government to deport most Armenians from the area of the revolt for security reasons. Their sufferings en route are well-known.

    First, allegedly critical evidence of the crime consists of forgeries. The British were in occupation of Istanbul for four years after the war and examined all of the files of the Ottoman government. They found nothing, and therefore could not try the 100-odd supposed Turkish war criminals that they were holding. Then, documents turned up, allegedly telegrams from the interior ministry to the effect that all Armenians should be wiped out. The signatures turned out to be wrong, there were no back-up copies in the archives and the dating system was misunderstood.

    There are many other arguments against a supposed genocide of the Armenians. Their leader was offered a post in the Turkish Cabinet in 1914, and turned it down. When the deportations were under way, the populations of the big cities were exempted — Istanbul, Izmir, Aleppo, where there were huge concentrations of Armenians. There were indeed well-documented and horrible massacres of the deportee columns, and the Turks themselves tried more than 1,300 men for these crimes in 1916, convicted many and executed several. None of this squares with genocide, as we classically understand it. Finally, it is just not true that historians as a whole support the genocide thesis. The people who know the background and the language (Ottoman Turkish is terribly difficult) are divided, and those who do not accept the genocide thesis are weightier. The Armenian lobby contends that these independent and highly esteemed historians are simply “Ottomanists” — a ridiculously arrogant dismissal.

    Unfortunately, the issue has never reached a properly constituted court. If the Armenians were convinced of their own case, they would have taken it to one. Instead, they lobby bewildered or bored parliamentary assemblies to “recognize the genocide.”
    Let historians decide. The Turkish government has been saying this for years. It is the Armenians who refuse to take part in a joint historical review, even when organized by impeccably neutral academics. This review is the logical and most sensible path forward.

    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2007-10-16/news/0710150364_1_armenians-ottoman-

    {The moderators had to step in to curb your rabid anti Muslim enthusiasm in 73 and 74 comments}

    You are a little confused: the one posting under the moniker Moderator is not the moderator.
    He is a Denialist like you.

    And don’t bother giving out nonsensical Denialist links: I have seen them all.
    And I know all about paid denialist so-called ‘intellectuals’ on Turks’ payroll.
    All the denialist disinformation has been debunked over and over.

    Now, what else have you got ?

    Read More
    • Replies: @KA
    "Moderator" post was to rebut your constant lies and your responses again came with some more lies. Show the links . Show the book . You have not provided any .
    Your agenda is to conflate Israeli issue with Armenian and so called centuries old persecution of Jews with that of Christina persecution by Muslim. That lies can adorn your soul towards your journey to Greater Israel of the Zionist prophets . Good luck with that efforts.

    Sure people have very right to lie . But in the process some of them hide their footprints in the creation of the woes of the human beings.
    That's what hase been happening to the world from the days of Balfour till date in Palestine. But every lie has been evisecrated . Jews should be reminded of the roles they have played in unfolding the two world wars,their slaughtering of the Europeans Arab,and evisceration of Westen economies . Their nefarious game plan from the opium war in China to the violence now in Sudan,Uganda ,to Latin America and Arab have been repeatedly exposed . Unless human being continue to do so and stop them from abusing the rest,Christian and Muslim have no future . The world will be controlled by Oriental,s Asian where Jews could not easily change the name ,disappear in the matrices of the color ,hide under religious similarities and monopolize the usuary.
  115. Hugo says:
    @Andrew E. Mathis
    I find it amusing that you call Jews racists. You're clearly racist yourself; one need look no further than your posts here. So one must wonder why you project so much onto Jews. Any response?

    Hmm. Allow me to answer your weak and rather predictable question. 1) I have no problem being called a racist. It’s just a bs term that is meant to silence dissent from Whites. 2) the anti -Jewish feelings are a natural response to the manner Jewish people treat others. Simply put, Jews have a horrible history of abusing their hosts. Hence the payback.

    Read More
  116. Hugo says:
    @Carroll Price
    I couldn't find the quote, but to paraphrase Adolph Hitler, he once said that one of the reasons Jews desired a state of their own, was so they could have a place in which to practice thievery and treachery while shielded from prosecution.

    Did he mean Washington DC?

    Read More
  117. Avery says:
    @geokat62

    Let historians decide. The Turkish government has been saying this for years.
     
    This issue has already been decided by historians. That's why:

    As of 2015, the governments of 28 countries, including Russia, Brazil, France, Germany and Canada as well as 43 states of the United States of America, have recognized the events as 'genocide'. The governments of Turkey and Azerbaijan deny the Armenian Genocide.
     

    geocat62:

    Denialist will continue denying: they have to. Their genocidal state, Turkey, is built on lies and denial. But the ring is slowly closing around the criminal, genocidal state.

    http://www.dw.com/en/german-president-gauck-labels-ottoman-massacre-of-armenians-genocide/a-18404147

    [ German President Joachim Gauck made his speech at a nondenominational religious service at Berlin Cathedral on Thursday, the eve of the 100th anniversary of the bloodshed that is estimated to have led to the deaths of as many as 1.5 million Armenians.

    In the highly anticipated speech, Gauck spoke of a "genocidal dynamic to which the Armenian people fell victim," and of "systematic acts of murder."

    The president went on to use the word "genocide" directly in a passage referring to the possible complicity of Germany , a World War One ally of the Ottoman Empire, in the events a century ago. German troops were alleged to have been involved in planning and even implementing deportations.

    "In this case, we Germans collectively still have to come to terms with the past, namely when it comes to shared responsibility and perhaps even complicity in the genocide of the Armenians."

    Turkey has fiercely lobbied to stop countries recognizing the 1915 massacres as genocide. It recalled its ambassador to the Vatican earlier this month after Pope Francis used the term. On Thursday, it recalled its ambassador in Vienna over a condemnation of the killings as genocide by Austrian lawmakers.]

    Read More
    • Replies: @KA
    German president can speak his mind like the S Sudanese president can on Congo or Rwanda. Some one from Rwanda can even support S Sudanese president .
    Ask him to provide the sources.
    Sure there are sources. Provide one beyond the claims by Armenians. Number in the Death of Armenians will not suffice. It is the complicity . Show and share the original source .

    Almost 14 yrs ago a German minister accused Israeli Mossad and its bought and paid agents in US intelligence of carrying out 911, There is some selective display of lies ( Armenian massacre) and some selective suppression( 911) by the media is at works here.

    By the way Turkeys action can't be defended but it has to be beyond the assertions" I say so" . We are not going into the same trap like Iraqi WMD.
    Discuss,learn,change,and arrive at an unbiased conclusion.
    , @KA
    Modus operandi is same.
    What's happening in Darfur! Why no one is talking about Turkmenistan or North Korea every time Americans are asked to explain the bucketful of dollars that are being poured on each Israeli citizen by US and by Germany or veto being considered at UN.
    Hyping up Turkey is another but consistent with the technique.
    Who started the WW1 ,who prevented the German proposal of truce who stopped American Turkey reconciliation ? Who approached Sultan to hand Palestine,( and part of Jordan ,Syrian land and land around Litni river ? ) to Jews? Who used Christian militias to kill Palestinian?

    May be Russia should be asked to pay its own victims of 20-30 millions in Troskytes and CHEKA ideology driven massacre and be asked to pay the survivors for the 3 millions Muslim it killed( source the Myth of the German Villainy by Benton L Bradberry )

    May be America and the coalition should be asked to pay for 1.5 millions Iraqis killed and for reconstruction of the country that it has destroyed . Only then Russia and America will raise the influence of the global Zionism behind the 20 th and 21 century's rampage .
    May be that idolized servant of the Zionist Churchill's Great Britain should be asked to pay the survivors of the 500,000 Indian soldiers killed in WW1 and be asked to pay for the death of the Churchill intimated famines in India.
  118. Hugo says:
    @Svigor
    The funny thing is how people project this need for a "conspiracy" onto Jews (and Jews and their water-carriers exploit this). Nope, Jewish ethnocentrism and aggressiveness and victim mentality (the last two being outgrowths of the former) are all that's needed. Unlike others, Jews don't need a "conspiracy" to act the way they do; if anything, their behavior is an inevitable outcome of their psychological profile.

    Bingo. You win post of the thread.

    Read More
  119. Technomad says:

    As far as “Turkey” goes, in 1915 it was called the “Ottoman Empire,” and did include large areas that were non-Muslim. After those areas were shed in the wake of World War I, what was left was quite a bit more monolithically Muslim. If the foolish Greeks hadn’t thought the time was ripe to take back Constantinople and the Ionian coast, and provoked a Turkish counterattack that drove the Greeks out of almost all Turkish territory (Constantinople/Istanbul itself and the area of Trabzon are the main exceptions) there would be more Christians in Turkey today. They started the fight, and got the worst of it, but thanks to their “cultural mana” in the West (meaning, people who reflexively kowtow when the word “Greeks” is mentioned, thinking that the modern Greeks are just like the great Greeks of the past) and language barriers, their side of the story was the one that got told.

    Read More
  120. Junior [AKA "Jr."] says:
    @Hunsdon
    Denialists? Is that a religion, an ethny, or a nation? Or is it a little of all three?

    Denialists? Is that a religion, an ethny, or a nation? Or is it a little of all three?

    Well from what I hear, it ain’t just a river in Egypt :)

    Read More
  121. Hugo says:
    @Technomad
    As far as "Turkey" goes, in 1915 it was called the "Ottoman Empire," and did include large areas that were non-Muslim. After those areas were shed in the wake of World War I, what was left was quite a bit more monolithically Muslim. If the foolish Greeks hadn't thought the time was ripe to take back Constantinople and the Ionian coast, and provoked a Turkish counterattack that drove the Greeks out of almost all Turkish territory (Constantinople/Istanbul itself and the area of Trabzon are the main exceptions) there would be more Christians in Turkey today. They started the fight, and got the worst of it, but thanks to their "cultural mana" in the West (meaning, people who reflexively kowtow when the word "Greeks" is mentioned, thinking that the modern Greeks are just like the great Greeks of the past) and language barriers, their side of the story was the one that got told.

    1 word for what you wrote. Lies.

    Read More
  122. Hunsdon says:
    @Avery
    If you tell me what an 'ethny' is, I will tell you.

    Well let’s say that “ethny” means “ethnicity” or a genetically distinct (albeit with perhaps fuzzy boundaries) subgroup of the population.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Avery
    A "Denialist" is a mentally disturbed individual divorced from reality who insists that events that took place did not take place.
    Ethnically most denialists at Turks.
    Most are Muslim.
    Although there are also many Jewish-American denialists, Israeli denialists, Anglo-Christian denialists.
    [The above is not a scientific sample: my personal observation from years of working with (well, against) denialists.]

    Of course there are quite a number of anti-denialists also amongst Muslim Turks, Muslims in general, Jewish-Americans, Israelis, etc.
    So it is not ethnicity, nor religion, nor a nation.
    It is (usually) an incurable individual mental condition.
    How it is contracted and how to cure it is a current hot area of research.

    Hope I was able to answer your question fully.
  123. KA says:
    @Avery
    {The moderators had to step in to curb your rabid anti Muslim enthusiasm in 73 and 74 comments}

    You are a little confused: the one posting under the moniker Moderator is not the moderator.
    He is a Denialist like you.

    And don't bother giving out nonsensical Denialist links: I have seen them all.
    And I know all about paid denialist so-called 'intellectuals' on Turks' payroll.
    All the denialist disinformation has been debunked over and over.

    Now, what else have you got ?

    “Moderator” post was to rebut your constant lies and your responses again came with some more lies. Show the links . Show the book . You have not provided any .
    Your agenda is to conflate Israeli issue with Armenian and so called centuries old persecution of Jews with that of Christina persecution by Muslim. That lies can adorn your soul towards your journey to Greater Israel of the Zionist prophets . Good luck with that efforts.

    Sure people have very right to lie . But in the process some of them hide their footprints in the creation of the woes of the human beings.
    That’s what hase been happening to the world from the days of Balfour till date in Palestine. But every lie has been evisecrated . Jews should be reminded of the roles they have played in unfolding the two world wars,their slaughtering of the Europeans Arab,and evisceration of Westen economies . Their nefarious game plan from the opium war in China to the violence now in Sudan,Uganda ,to Latin America and Arab have been repeatedly exposed . Unless human being continue to do so and stop them from abusing the rest,Christian and Muslim have no future . The world will be controlled by Oriental,s Asian where Jews could not easily change the name ,disappear in the matrices of the color ,hide under religious similarities and monopolize the usuary.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Avery
    {Your agenda is to conflate Israeli issue with Armenian and so called centuries old persecution of Jews with that of Christina persecution by Muslim.}

    My agenda is to debunk denialists such as yourself.
    I don't know what an "Israeli issue" is, and don't care.
    Again: my agenda is debunk and counter the lies of denialists such as yourself who insist Muslim Turks did not commit Genocide against Christian Armenians, Christian Assyrians, Christian Pontic Greeks.

    Nomad Muslims Turk invaders from Uyguristan.
  124. KA says:
    @geokat62
    Oh, just in case you wanted supporting evidence:

    The overwhelming majority of historians as well as academic institutions on Holocaust and Genocide Studies recognize the Armenian Genocide.

    http://www.teachgenocide.com/files/DocsMaps/A%20Brief%20History%20of%20the%20Armenian%20Genocide.pdf
     
    P.S. Phil, has the edit function been disabled for everyone, or am I the only one experiencing difficulties?

    Thank you.
    But this is all that you got.
    Page from 333 to 337 and one refernce on page 337
    Henry Morgenthau, Ambassador Morgenthau’s Story

    May be there are more solid arguments by experts with more evidences. But this link isn’t the one . May be it is the product of the scientific endeavor or the result of some conference . May be it is the position paper of the expert .
    But there is nothing at the bottom suggesting that is the case .excepting the reference to corroborate Henry Morgenthan

    Read More
    • Replies: @geokat62

    But this is all that you got.
     
    Will this do?

    International organizations[edit]
    International organizations officially recognising the Armenian Genocide include:
    European Parliament (1987,[4] 2000,[5] 2002,[6] 2005[7] 2015[8][9][10])
    Council of Europe[11]
    World Council of Churches[12]
    European Alliance of YMCAs[13]
    Permanent Peoples' Tribunal[14]
    Mercosur[15]
    United Nations[edit]
    In 1985, the United Nations Sub-Commission on Prevention of Discrimination and Protection of Minorities received a report from Special Rapporteur and Sub-Commission member Benjamin Whitaker (United Kingdom) entitled Revised and Updated Report on the Question of the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (commonly known as The Whitaker Report), in which the Ottoman systematic massacre of Armenians during the World War I was cited as meeting the criteria for the UN definition of genocide and as one of the genocides of the 20th century.[16] His report was received and noted by a resolution at the 38th session of the Sub-Commission in 1985. (E/CN.4/Sub.2/1985/6, 2 July 1985)
    International Association of Genocide Scholars[edit]
    In 1997 the International Association of Genocide Scholars (IAGS) passed a resolution unanimously recognizing the Ottoman massacres of Armenians as genocide:[17][18]
    That this assembly of the Association of Genocide Scholars in its conference held in Montreal, June 11–13, 1997, reaffirms that the mass murder of over a million Armenians in Turkey in 1915 is a case of genocide which conforms to the statutes of the United Nations Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Genocide. It further condemns the denial of the Armenian Genocide by the Turkish government and its official and unofficial agents and supporters.
    — Among the prominent scholars who supported the resolution were: Roger W. Smith (College of William & Mary; President of AGS); Israel Charny (Hebrew University, Jerusalem); Helen Fein (Past President AGS); Frank Chalk (Concordia University, Montreal); Ben Kiernan (Yale University); Anthony Oberschall (University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill); Mark Levene (Warwick University, UK); Rhoda Howard (McMaster University, Canada), Michael Freeman (Essex University, UK), Gunnar Heinsohn (Bremen University, Germany)
    The IAGS has recognized the 1915 genocide in three different resolutions, the latest (October 5, 2007) extending the recognition to also include the Assyrian Genocide and Pontian and Anatolian Greek Genocide among the affected minorities:[19]
    WHEREAS the denial of genocide is widely recognised as the final stage of genocide, enshrining impunity for the perpetrators of genocide, and demonstrably paving the way for future genocides;
    WHEREAS the Ottoman genocide against minority populations during and following the First World War is usually depicted as a genocide against Armenians alone, with little recognition of the qualitatively similar genocides against other Christian minorities of the Ottoman Empire;
    BE IT RESOLVED that it is the conviction of the International Association of Genocide Scholars that the Ottoman campaign against Christian minorities of the Empire between 1914 and 1923 constituted a genocide against Armenians, Assyrians, and Pontian and Anatolian Greeks.
    BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the Association calls upon the government of Turkey to acknowledge the genocides against these populations, to issue a formal apology, and to take prompt and meaningful steps toward restitution.[20]
    The IAGS has consistently identified the Ottoman massacres of Armenians as genocide. For example, on March 7, 2009, in an open letter to President Obama, Gregory Stanton, President IAGS stated "we urge you to 'refer to the mass slaughter of Armenians as genocide in your commemorative statement,' as you urged President George W. Bush to do in a letter dated March 18, 2005".[21]
    In February 2002 an independent legal opinion commissioned by the International Center for Transitional Justice, concluded that the Ottoman massacre of Armenians in 1915–1918 "include[d] all of the elements of the crime of genocide as defined in the [Genocide] Convention, and legal scholars as well as historians, politicians, journalists and other people would be justified in continuing to so describe them".[22] From page 2 of the report:
    This memorandum was drafted by independent legal counsel based on a request made to the International Center for Transitional Justice ("ICTJ"), on the basis of the Memorandum of Understanding ("MoU") entered into by The Turkish Armenian Reconciliation Commission ("TARC") on July 12, 2002 and presentations by members of TARC on September 10, 2002.
    From page 18, D. Conclusion:
    ... Because the other three elements identified above have been definitively established, the Events, viewed collectively, can thus be said to include all of the elements of the crime of genocide as defined in the Convention, and legal scholars as well as historians, politicians, journalists and other people would be justified in continuing to so describe them.
    In 2007, the Elie Wiesel Foundation for Humanity wrote a letter signed by 53 Nobel Laureates re-affirming the Genocide Scholars' conclusion that the 1915 killings of Armenians constituted genocide.[23] Wiesel's organization also asserted that Turkish acknowledgement of the Armenian Genocide would create no legal "basis for reparations or territorial claims", anticipating Turkish anxieties that it could prompt financial or territorial claims.[24]
    European Parliament[edit]
    On April 15, 2015, the European Parliament backed a motion that calls the massacre a century ago of up to 1.5 million Armenians by Ottoman Turkish forces a genocide,[25] days after Pope Francis' message triggered an angry reaction in Turkey by using the same term.[26] The European Parliament sprang to the pope's defense, commending the message the pontiff had delivered.[8][9][10]
    American Jewish organizations[edit]
    On November 7, 1989 the Union for Reform Judaism passed a resolution on recognition of the Armenian Genocide.[27]
    In 2007, the Anti-Defamation League declared the following press statement:
    We have never negated but have always described the painful events of 1915–1918 perpetrated by the Ottoman Empire against the Armenians as massacres and atrocities. On reflection, we have come to share the view of Henry Morgenthau, Sr. that the consequences of those actions were indeed tantamount to genocide. If the word genocide had existed then, they would have called it genocide.[28]
    In 2014, the American Jewish Committee recognized the Armenian Genocide as a historical fact.[29][30][31]
    Central Council of Jews in Germany[edit]
    The Central Council of Jews in Germany has called on the German government to recognize the World War I mass murder of over one million Armenians in what was then the Ottoman Empire as a genocide.
    "One hundred years ago, in the government of the Ottoman Empire ordered the deportation of one million Armenians. They were murdered directly, or died of starvation and dehydration in the desert,“ Central Council President Josef Schuster told the newspaper ‘Der Tagesspiegel’. He added: “These terrible events should be called what they were: a genocide.”
    Schuster said the Armenian genocide later served Adolf Hitler and his Nazis as a blueprint for the Holocaust.[32][33][34]
    The Zentralrat is the German affiliate of the World Jewish Congress (WJC).
    European People's Party[edit]
    On 3 March 2015, the European People's Party (EPP) adopted a resolution recognising and condemning the Armenian Genocide as well as paying tribute to the victims in the 100th anniversary. The EPP, which is the largest European political party, has adopted the resolution following the initiative of its sister parties from Armenia. The EPP includes major parties such as the German Christian Democratic Union (CDU), the French Union for a Popular Movement (UMP), the Spanish Popular Party (PP) and it has member parties in all the EU Member States except for the United Kingdom.[35][36]
    Other[edit]
    Permanent Peoples' Tribunal[edit]
    In 1984 the Permanent Peoples' Tribunal made a verdict that the Armenian genocide is "an 'international crime' for which the Turkish state must assume responsibility", and that the United Nations and each of its members "have the right to demand this recognition and to assist the Armenian people to that end".[37]
    Presbyterian Church (USA)[edit]
    On June 20, 2014, the Presbyterian Church (USA) adopted a resolution recognizing the Armenian Genocide and adopting the 2015 church calendar designating April 26 as the day for its observance.[38][39] It also directed the church’s Mission Agency to prepare educational and liturgical resources for member churches in preparation for this event.[39] This resolution was the first of its kind for a major American church body.[39]
    Parliaments and governments[edit]
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d2/Nations_recognising_the_Armenian_Genocide.svg/400px-Nations_recognising_the_Armenian_Genocide.svg.png
    Countries which officially recognize the events as genocide.
    Countries where certain political parties, provinces and/or municipalities have recognized the events as genocide, independently from the government as a whole.
    Countries[edit]
    On May 24, 1915, during World War I, the Allied Powers (Great Britain, France and Russia) jointly issued a statement in which they said that for approximately a month, the Kurdish and Turkish populations of Armenia had been massacring Armenians, with the connivance and often assistance of Ottoman authorities, and that the Allied Powers would hold all officers of the Ottoman Government implicated in such crimes personally responsible for crimes against humanity.[40][41][42]

    French Foreign Office requests following notice be given Turkish Government. Quote. May 24th
    For about a month the Kurd and Turkish populations of Armenia has been massacring Armenians with the connivance and often assistance of Ottoman authorities. Such massacres took place in middle April at Erzerum, Dertchun, Eguine, Akn, Bitlis, Mush, Sassun, Zeitun, and throughout Cilicia. Inhabitants of about one hundred villages near Van were all murdered. In that city Armenian quarter is besieged by Kurds. At the same time in Constantinople Ottoman Government ill-treats inoffensive Armenian population. In view of those new crimes of Turkey against humanity and civilization, the Allied governments announce publicly to the Sublime-Porte that they will hold personally responsible [for] these crimes all members of the Ottoman government and those of their agents who are implicated in such massacres.[40]

    In recent years, parliaments of several countries have formally recognized the event as genocide. Turkish entry talks with the European Union were met with a number of calls to consider the event as genocide,[43][44][45] though it never became a precondition.
    As of May 2015, 28 states have officially recognized the historical events as genocide...
     
  125. KA says:
    @Avery
    geocat62:

    Denialist will continue denying: they have to. Their genocidal state, Turkey, is built on lies and denial. But the ring is slowly closing around the criminal, genocidal state.

    http://www.dw.com/en/german-president-gauck-labels-ottoman-massacre-of-armenians-genocide/a-18404147

    [ German President Joachim Gauck made his speech at a nondenominational religious service at Berlin Cathedral on Thursday, the eve of the 100th anniversary of the bloodshed that is estimated to have led to the deaths of as many as 1.5 million Armenians.

    In the highly anticipated speech, Gauck spoke of a "genocidal dynamic to which the Armenian people fell victim," and of "systematic acts of murder."

    The president went on to use the word "genocide" directly in a passage referring to the possible complicity of Germany , a World War One ally of the Ottoman Empire, in the events a century ago. German troops were alleged to have been involved in planning and even implementing deportations.

    "In this case, we Germans collectively still have to come to terms with the past, namely when it comes to shared responsibility and perhaps even complicity in the genocide of the Armenians."

    Turkey has fiercely lobbied to stop countries recognizing the 1915 massacres as genocide. It recalled its ambassador to the Vatican earlier this month after Pope Francis used the term. On Thursday, it recalled its ambassador in Vienna over a condemnation of the killings as genocide by Austrian lawmakers.]

    German president can speak his mind like the S Sudanese president can on Congo or Rwanda. Some one from Rwanda can even support S Sudanese president .
    Ask him to provide the sources.
    Sure there are sources. Provide one beyond the claims by Armenians. Number in the Death of Armenians will not suffice. It is the complicity . Show and share the original source .

    Almost 14 yrs ago a German minister accused Israeli Mossad and its bought and paid agents in US intelligence of carrying out 911, There is some selective display of lies ( Armenian massacre) and some selective suppression( 911) by the media is at works here.

    By the way Turkeys action can’t be defended but it has to be beyond the assertions” I say so” . We are not going into the same trap like Iraqi WMD.
    Discuss,learn,change,and arrive at an unbiased conclusion.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Avery
    German president represents Germany.
    A wartime ally of genocidal Ottoman Turks.

    What does a Sudanese war-criminal president saying something or German minister saying something else have to do with what the German president said about the Armenian Genocide committed by their WW1 ally Turks ?
  126. KA says:
    @Avery
    geocat62:

    Denialist will continue denying: they have to. Their genocidal state, Turkey, is built on lies and denial. But the ring is slowly closing around the criminal, genocidal state.

    http://www.dw.com/en/german-president-gauck-labels-ottoman-massacre-of-armenians-genocide/a-18404147

    [ German President Joachim Gauck made his speech at a nondenominational religious service at Berlin Cathedral on Thursday, the eve of the 100th anniversary of the bloodshed that is estimated to have led to the deaths of as many as 1.5 million Armenians.

    In the highly anticipated speech, Gauck spoke of a "genocidal dynamic to which the Armenian people fell victim," and of "systematic acts of murder."

    The president went on to use the word "genocide" directly in a passage referring to the possible complicity of Germany , a World War One ally of the Ottoman Empire, in the events a century ago. German troops were alleged to have been involved in planning and even implementing deportations.

    "In this case, we Germans collectively still have to come to terms with the past, namely when it comes to shared responsibility and perhaps even complicity in the genocide of the Armenians."

    Turkey has fiercely lobbied to stop countries recognizing the 1915 massacres as genocide. It recalled its ambassador to the Vatican earlier this month after Pope Francis used the term. On Thursday, it recalled its ambassador in Vienna over a condemnation of the killings as genocide by Austrian lawmakers.]

    Modus operandi is same.
    What’s happening in Darfur! Why no one is talking about Turkmenistan or North Korea every time Americans are asked to explain the bucketful of dollars that are being poured on each Israeli citizen by US and by Germany or veto being considered at UN.
    Hyping up Turkey is another but consistent with the technique.
    Who started the WW1 ,who prevented the German proposal of truce who stopped American Turkey reconciliation ? Who approached Sultan to hand Palestine,( and part of Jordan ,Syrian land and land around Litni river ? ) to Jews? Who used Christian militias to kill Palestinian?

    May be Russia should be asked to pay its own victims of 20-30 millions in Troskytes and CHEKA ideology driven massacre and be asked to pay the survivors for the 3 millions Muslim it killed( source the Myth of the German Villainy by Benton L Bradberry )

    May be America and the coalition should be asked to pay for 1.5 millions Iraqis killed and for reconstruction of the country that it has destroyed . Only then Russia and America will raise the influence of the global Zionism behind the 20 th and 21 century’s rampage .
    May be that idolized servant of the Zionist Churchill’s Great Britain should be asked to pay the survivors of the 500,000 Indian soldiers killed in WW1 and be asked to pay for the death of the Churchill intimated famines in India.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Avery
    You can raise whatever issue you want and make any number of demands.
    I am not stopping you.

    Again, my purpose is to counter the disinformation and lies being spread by denialists such as yourself.

    1. Your Turk ancestors committed Genocide: proven fact.
    2. Turkey and denialists like you are attempting to erase the guilt by lies and disinformation.
    3. We are working to gradually close the ring of truth around the dwindling denialist remnants.
    4. Fifty years ago, only Armenians, Turks, and a few academics knew about the AG.
    5. Look around now: even Germany, Turks' ally and collaborator during AG is now tittering.
    6. And we will keep at it no matter how long it takes.

    We have survived as Armenians 5,000+ years.
    100 years, 150 years, 200 years means nothing to us.

    There will be justice for the Armenian Genocide one way or another.
    And if others want to seek justice for their cause - Armenians are neither stopping them nor interfering with their efforts.

  127. Avery says:
    @Hunsdon
    Well let's say that "ethny" means "ethnicity" or a genetically distinct (albeit with perhaps fuzzy boundaries) subgroup of the population.

    A “Denialist” is a mentally disturbed individual divorced from reality who insists that events that took place did not take place.
    Ethnically most denialists at Turks.
    Most are Muslim.
    Although there are also many Jewish-American denialists, Israeli denialists, Anglo-Christian denialists.
    [The above is not a scientific sample: my personal observation from years of working with (well, against) denialists.]

    Of course there are quite a number of anti-denialists also amongst Muslim Turks, Muslims in general, Jewish-Americans, Israelis, etc.
    So it is not ethnicity, nor religion, nor a nation.
    It is (usually) an incurable individual mental condition.
    How it is contracted and how to cure it is a current hot area of research.

    Hope I was able to answer your question fully.

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  128. Avery says:
    @KA
    "Moderator" post was to rebut your constant lies and your responses again came with some more lies. Show the links . Show the book . You have not provided any .
    Your agenda is to conflate Israeli issue with Armenian and so called centuries old persecution of Jews with that of Christina persecution by Muslim. That lies can adorn your soul towards your journey to Greater Israel of the Zionist prophets . Good luck with that efforts.

    Sure people have very right to lie . But in the process some of them hide their footprints in the creation of the woes of the human beings.
    That's what hase been happening to the world from the days of Balfour till date in Palestine. But every lie has been evisecrated . Jews should be reminded of the roles they have played in unfolding the two world wars,their slaughtering of the Europeans Arab,and evisceration of Westen economies . Their nefarious game plan from the opium war in China to the violence now in Sudan,Uganda ,to Latin America and Arab have been repeatedly exposed . Unless human being continue to do so and stop them from abusing the rest,Christian and Muslim have no future . The world will be controlled by Oriental,s Asian where Jews could not easily change the name ,disappear in the matrices of the color ,hide under religious similarities and monopolize the usuary.

    {Your agenda is to conflate Israeli issue with Armenian and so called centuries old persecution of Jews with that of Christina persecution by Muslim.}

    My agenda is to debunk denialists such as yourself.
    I don’t know what an “Israeli issue” is, and don’t care.
    Again: my agenda is debunk and counter the lies of denialists such as yourself who insist Muslim Turks did not commit Genocide against Christian Armenians, Christian Assyrians, Christian Pontic Greeks.

    Nomad Muslims Turk invaders from Uyguristan.

    Read More
    • Replies: @KA
    Israeli issue is at the top .See that . That is the heading .

    Can you see ?
    , @KA
    Zionist mandated war on that basis won't happen again. The world is learning fast. Zionist mandated Christian love for the Jewish Homeland , Zionist mandated wars till date in the name of Poland,Checklovakia,Student land ( WW2) ,or Balfourian dreams ( WW1) or terrorism and democracy have cost both Christian and Muslims a lot. No more war in the name of another flag raised by the Zionist . That's what they did to S Sudan in the name salvaging Darfur .( just one of many similar examples )
  129. Avery says:
    @KA
    German president can speak his mind like the S Sudanese president can on Congo or Rwanda. Some one from Rwanda can even support S Sudanese president .
    Ask him to provide the sources.
    Sure there are sources. Provide one beyond the claims by Armenians. Number in the Death of Armenians will not suffice. It is the complicity . Show and share the original source .

    Almost 14 yrs ago a German minister accused Israeli Mossad and its bought and paid agents in US intelligence of carrying out 911, There is some selective display of lies ( Armenian massacre) and some selective suppression( 911) by the media is at works here.

    By the way Turkeys action can't be defended but it has to be beyond the assertions" I say so" . We are not going into the same trap like Iraqi WMD.
    Discuss,learn,change,and arrive at an unbiased conclusion.

    German president represents Germany.
    A wartime ally of genocidal Ottoman Turks.

    What does a Sudanese war-criminal president saying something or German minister saying something else have to do with what the German president said about the Armenian Genocide committed by their WW1 ally Turks ?

    Read More
    • Replies: @KA
    German president represents the Zionist. His country supplies Israel with nuclear sub, sends money,keeps quiet on Gaza massacre,and supports all Zinist activities including when to support Armenian massacre narrative and when not to depending on the Israeli desire .
    , @annamaria
    Could you also elaborate on the ethnic composition of the leaders of the Socialist Revolution in Russia as well as the main bureaucrats in the secret police (CheKa, NKVD, these dreadful organizations involved in killing out of the best and brightest in the 20th century Russia? A cue: there was a disproportionate presence of ethnic Jews. There are also exist the undeniable evidences of active communication between Zionists and Nazis, including the suggestions for collaboration from the Zionists. Your efforts to place certain ethnic group above other ethnic groups re morality are ridiculous. You attempt to reject the very idea of war-crimes and genocidal policies committed by Jews throughout the history. Here is a terrifying statement for you: Jews are no less bloodthirsty than other ethnic groups. It is also not to your advantage that among the leading US neocons, the disproportionate number are Zionists; see the current results of their war-criminality and genocidal policies in the Middle East.
  130. KA says:

    I see a lot of them in the west . They are on somekind of subsidization . They get some allowance from the Zionist . The duties are simple – divert,distract,conflate and place the effects before the causes .

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  131. Avery says:
    @KA
    Modus operandi is same.
    What's happening in Darfur! Why no one is talking about Turkmenistan or North Korea every time Americans are asked to explain the bucketful of dollars that are being poured on each Israeli citizen by US and by Germany or veto being considered at UN.
    Hyping up Turkey is another but consistent with the technique.
    Who started the WW1 ,who prevented the German proposal of truce who stopped American Turkey reconciliation ? Who approached Sultan to hand Palestine,( and part of Jordan ,Syrian land and land around Litni river ? ) to Jews? Who used Christian militias to kill Palestinian?

    May be Russia should be asked to pay its own victims of 20-30 millions in Troskytes and CHEKA ideology driven massacre and be asked to pay the survivors for the 3 millions Muslim it killed( source the Myth of the German Villainy by Benton L Bradberry )

    May be America and the coalition should be asked to pay for 1.5 millions Iraqis killed and for reconstruction of the country that it has destroyed . Only then Russia and America will raise the influence of the global Zionism behind the 20 th and 21 century's rampage .
    May be that idolized servant of the Zionist Churchill's Great Britain should be asked to pay the survivors of the 500,000 Indian soldiers killed in WW1 and be asked to pay for the death of the Churchill intimated famines in India.

    You can raise whatever issue you want and make any number of demands.
    I am not stopping you.

    Again, my purpose is to counter the disinformation and lies being spread by denialists such as yourself.

    1. Your Turk ancestors committed Genocide: proven fact.
    2. Turkey and denialists like you are attempting to erase the guilt by lies and disinformation.
    3. We are working to gradually close the ring of truth around the dwindling denialist remnants.
    4. Fifty years ago, only Armenians, Turks, and a few academics knew about the AG.
    5. Look around now: even Germany, Turks’ ally and collaborator during AG is now tittering.
    6. And we will keep at it no matter how long it takes.

    We have survived as Armenians 5,000+ years.
    100 years, 150 years, 200 years means nothing to us.

    There will be justice for the Armenian Genocide one way or another.
    And if others want to seek justice for their cause – Armenians are neither stopping them nor interfering with their efforts.

    Read More
    • Replies: @bunga
    It is interesting that the same time Zionist was trying to break up Turkey ,the massacres of the Christians were reaching American shores ,carried by the Zionist media .
    Then came the Frankfurter and Brandeis working their way through multiple inserts in US and UK to destroy any no aggression treaty between Turkey and US. They knew fully well how the dangerous nationalism would be expressed by fanatics in Turkey against Armenian .
    Years later Israel will protect Turkey from genocide accusation . Few years later Israel again would start the canard to get Turkey come back to its fold ( Armenia ahs not fallen into the trap and has waged wars against Russia or Iran )
  132. KA says:
    @Avery
    German president represents Germany.
    A wartime ally of genocidal Ottoman Turks.

    What does a Sudanese war-criminal president saying something or German minister saying something else have to do with what the German president said about the Armenian Genocide committed by their WW1 ally Turks ?

    German president represents the Zionist. His country supplies Israel with nuclear sub, sends money,keeps quiet on Gaza massacre,and supports all Zinist activities including when to support Armenian massacre narrative and when not to depending on the Israeli desire .

    Read More
  133. KA says:
    @Avery
    {Your agenda is to conflate Israeli issue with Armenian and so called centuries old persecution of Jews with that of Christina persecution by Muslim.}

    My agenda is to debunk denialists such as yourself.
    I don't know what an "Israeli issue" is, and don't care.
    Again: my agenda is debunk and counter the lies of denialists such as yourself who insist Muslim Turks did not commit Genocide against Christian Armenians, Christian Assyrians, Christian Pontic Greeks.

    Nomad Muslims Turk invaders from Uyguristan.

    Israeli issue is at the top .See that . That is the heading .

    Can you see ?

    Read More
  134. KA says:

    http://lobelog.com/neocons-launch-2016-manifesto/

    PNAC after inciting global violence from 1992 against Muslim and Arab ,is back again trying same ploy to get Christian to go to war for Israel .

    The raucous debates in campuses and Internet or rarely on TV or libraries are punished and suppressed ,and labeled as antisemtism,as incitement to violence but the actual powers behind the violent baby killings on a mas scale go scot free .

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  135. KA says:
    @Avery
    A "Denialist" is a mentally disturbed individual divorced from reality who insists that events that took place did not take place.
    Ethnically most denialists at Turks.
    Most are Muslim.
    Although there are also many Jewish-American denialists, Israeli denialists, Anglo-Christian denialists.
    [The above is not a scientific sample: my personal observation from years of working with (well, against) denialists.]

    Of course there are quite a number of anti-denialists also amongst Muslim Turks, Muslims in general, Jewish-Americans, Israelis, etc.
    So it is not ethnicity, nor religion, nor a nation.
    It is (usually) an incurable individual mental condition.
    How it is contracted and how to cure it is a current hot area of research.

    Hope I was able to answer your question fully.

    132 for you.

    Read More
  136. KA says:
    @Avery
    {Your agenda is to conflate Israeli issue with Armenian and so called centuries old persecution of Jews with that of Christina persecution by Muslim.}

    My agenda is to debunk denialists such as yourself.
    I don't know what an "Israeli issue" is, and don't care.
    Again: my agenda is debunk and counter the lies of denialists such as yourself who insist Muslim Turks did not commit Genocide against Christian Armenians, Christian Assyrians, Christian Pontic Greeks.

    Nomad Muslims Turk invaders from Uyguristan.

    Zionist mandated war on that basis won’t happen again. The world is learning fast. Zionist mandated Christian love for the Jewish Homeland , Zionist mandated wars till date in the name of Poland,Checklovakia,Student land ( WW2) ,or Balfourian dreams ( WW1) or terrorism and democracy have cost both Christian and Muslims a lot. No more war in the name of another flag raised by the Zionist . That’s what they did to S Sudan in the name salvaging Darfur .( just one of many similar examples )

    Read More
  137. bunga says:
    @Avery
    You can raise whatever issue you want and make any number of demands.
    I am not stopping you.

    Again, my purpose is to counter the disinformation and lies being spread by denialists such as yourself.

    1. Your Turk ancestors committed Genocide: proven fact.
    2. Turkey and denialists like you are attempting to erase the guilt by lies and disinformation.
    3. We are working to gradually close the ring of truth around the dwindling denialist remnants.
    4. Fifty years ago, only Armenians, Turks, and a few academics knew about the AG.
    5. Look around now: even Germany, Turks' ally and collaborator during AG is now tittering.
    6. And we will keep at it no matter how long it takes.

    We have survived as Armenians 5,000+ years.
    100 years, 150 years, 200 years means nothing to us.

    There will be justice for the Armenian Genocide one way or another.
    And if others want to seek justice for their cause - Armenians are neither stopping them nor interfering with their efforts.

    It is interesting that the same time Zionist was trying to break up Turkey ,the massacres of the Christians were reaching American shores ,carried by the Zionist media .
    Then came the Frankfurter and Brandeis working their way through multiple inserts in US and UK to destroy any no aggression treaty between Turkey and US. They knew fully well how the dangerous nationalism would be expressed by fanatics in Turkey against Armenian .
    Years later Israel will protect Turkey from genocide accusation . Few years later Israel again would start the canard to get Turkey come back to its fold ( Armenia ahs not fallen into the trap and has waged wars against Russia or Iran )

    Read More
  138. @Hugo
    Hmm. Allow me to answer your weak and rather predictable question. 1) I have no problem being called a racist. It's just a bs term that is meant to silence dissent from Whites. 2) the anti -Jewish feelings are a natural response to the manner Jewish people treat others. Simply put, Jews have a horrible history of abusing their hosts. Hence the payback.

    I’m sorry, was I talking to you?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hugo
    Dont really give a phuck. Cant ignore Jewish supremacist propaganda.
  139. bunga says:
    @Sherman
    Give me a break.

    Just last week at a college in upstate New York a few dozen students held a non-political prayer vigil for the recent Israeli victims of Palestinian knife attacks.

    They were taunted and heckled by pro-Palestinian demonstrators.

    I know this because it was in the newspapers and my niece was there.

    Nobody is being denied freedom of speech on college campuses.

    I guess the reason that a Holocaust denying anti-Semite like Giraldi is relegated to publishing his venom on fringe websites is also because of a Zionist free speech conspiracy

    In 2005, as associate provost of Roosevelt University, she defended a department chair who fired adjunct professor Douglas Giles because Giles refused to bar students from discussing Zionism, Islamic beliefs about Jerusalem and the Palestinian question in his World Religions class. Giles’ account of his outrageous treatment by Roosevelt describes how Love even defended the department chair’s descriptions of Palestinians as “animals” and “not civilized” as nothing more than “defending her position passionately.”

    http://socialistworker.org/2014/03/11/why-is-palestine-taboo-columbia-college

    2 After Chehade held a screening of the Oscar-nominated documentary 5 Broken Cameras in his class last fall, one of Chehade’s students went to Corey with a complaint of “bias.” Corey told Chehade to teach his class in a more “balanced” way and then requested that Chehade provide proof that he is qualified to teach.

    http://socialistworker.org/2014/03/11/why-is-palestine-taboo-columbia-college

    Universities Face Another Push to Criminalize Speech Criticizing Israel
    Students say they should be allowed to engage in human rights advocacy in defense of Palestinians

    http://www.commondreams.org/news/2015/10/27/universities-face-another-push-criminalize-speech-criticizing-israel

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  140. bunga says:
    @Sherman
    Give me a break.

    Just last week at a college in upstate New York a few dozen students held a non-political prayer vigil for the recent Israeli victims of Palestinian knife attacks.

    They were taunted and heckled by pro-Palestinian demonstrators.

    I know this because it was in the newspapers and my niece was there.

    Nobody is being denied freedom of speech on college campuses.

    I guess the reason that a Holocaust denying anti-Semite like Giraldi is relegated to publishing his venom on fringe websites is also because of a Zionist free speech conspiracy

    From a left-wing community once at the forefront of struggles against racism, unconditional support for Israel has turned a significant proportion of Toronto Jews into promoters of hatred against “Arabs” and into allies of right wing, bigoted, homophobic Christian Bible literalists.

    During 15 years of activism in Montréal, Ottawa and Vancouver I haven’t seen anything equivalent to the racist, militarist pro-Israel movement experienced recently in Toronto. And sadly the quasi-fascistic organization driving the charge seems increasingly enmeshed within a community that once led the fight against racism and fascism in the city.

    On Saturday at Queen’s Park (the grounds of the Ontario legislature) I was shoved, spat on, had my bike damaged and lock stolen by members of the Jewish Defense League (JDL), a hate group that is banned in the U.S. and Israel. My offence was to chant “kill more Palestinian children” as hundreds of JDL and B’nai B’rith supporters rallied to applaud the onslaught on Gaza in a counter demonstration to those opposed to Israel’s massacres.

    The following day, also at Queen’s Park, a JDL member knocked a pro-Palestinian counter demonstrator to the ground and kicked him in the face. Half an hour after this happened, a JDL member walked some 50 metres around a barricade to where I was standing alone chanting at the pro-war rally and spat on me three times. Both incidents were caught on tape by major media outlets.

    New to pro-Palestinian activism in Toronto, I was unaware of just how aggressive and organized the JDL had become. It’s reached the point where some Palestinian solidarity groups avoid publicizing pickets out of fear they might disrupt them.

    In the US the JDL has been outlawed since 2001. Its members have been convicted in a series of acts of terror, including the killing of the regional director of the American Arab Anti-discrimination Committee and a plot to assassinate a Congressman. A member of the JDL’s sister organization in Israel killed 29 Palestinian Muslim worshipers in the Cave of the Patriarchs Massacre twenty years ago. In 2011 the RCMP launched an investigation against a number of JDL members who were thought to be plotting to bomb Palestine House in Mississauga.

    Despite the group’s links to terrorism, the JDL appears to find support from much of the organized Jewish community and even in Ottawa. In a significant boost to the group, Stephen Harper included a member in his official delegation on a recent trip to Israel; recent Canadian Jewish News coverage of the group has been sympathetic; rabbis attended the JDL/B’nai B’rith sponsored counterdemonstration Saturday; on Sunday the group provided “security” for the Canadians for Israel rally. Rather than being an isolated fringe group the Jewish mainstream tries to ostracize, the JDL seems to be gaining influence.

    The growth of Canada’s JDL parallels the increasingly extreme violence of the Israeli government and the resulting worldwide outrage over that country’s aggressive expansionism. The mainstream Jewish community is marching in lockstep with the Israeli state and Stephen Harper’s Conservatives have not only accepted it, they have promoted it. Over the past three weeks Israel has killed over 1,300 Palestinians in Gaza, displaced more than a tenth of the population and destroyed most of the area’s electricity and water supply. Yet, the Israeli government still receives unequivocal support from the Centre for Israel and Jewish Affairs, B’nai B’rith and other leading Canadian Jewish organizations. As part of its support for the recent killings in Gaza the United Jewish Appeal Federation of Greater Toronto, the community’s main philanthropic arm, has added $2.25 million to its annual aid to Israel.

    While the JDL would likely back the complete incineration of Gaza, one wonders just how far the more mainstream groups are willing to go in cheering on Israel’s current onslaught, its third large-scale assault on Gaza in five years. Will the Jewish establishment withdraw support if 2,000 Palestinian are killed? Or is the breakpoint 5,000? Or maybe B’nai B’rith and the Centre for Israel and Jewish Affairs would back the Israeli military all the way to 50,000 dead?

    While one might want to believe that the warmongering promoted by dominant Jewish organizations is not widely shared by the community they claim to represent, I’ve seen too many sizable pro-war rallies and witnessed too many outbursts of anti-Arab racism over the past three weeks in Toronto to be hopeful in this regard. Wide swaths of Toronto’s Jewish community seem to be mimicking the Israeli public’s racist militarism. (Google stories about Israelis chanting “death to the Arabs”, celebrating military blasts on Gaza from hilltops nearby or beating peace activists.) On Bloor Street two weeks ago a middle-aged man walking with his partner crumbled a leaflet I handed him, pointed at two older Arab looking men who responded, and yelled “barbarians”. In a similarly bizarre racist outburst, a man who was biking past the Saturday demonstration stopped to engage and soon after he was pointing at a young Arab looking child close by and telling me that I was indoctrinating him to kill. And then on Sunday an older woman interrupted a phone conversation I was having about Israel’s destruction of Gaza and yelled she hoped Israel kills “10,000 more”.

    The idea that Toronto’s Jewish community in 2014 would be front-and-centre in backing racist militarism is profoundly depressing and quite the historic reversal. Seven decades ago righteous Jewish youth fought back against fascist thugs terrorizing non-Anglo-Saxons in the 1933 Christie Pits Riot. Two decades after that the Canadian Jewish Congress helped win the famous Noble v. Alley Supreme Court case, which prompted Ontario to pass a law voiding racist land covenants, a major victory in the battle for racial equality.

    But, while six decades ago Jewish organizations fought racist land restrictions, today there is no other community that so strongly and openly backs racist supremacy in land use. Six months ago some 4,500 people packed the Toronto Convention Centre to honour Stephen Harper at a Jewish National Fund fundraiser. Owner of 13% of Israel’s land, the Jewish National Fund excludes Palestinian citizens of Israel and other non-Jews from its properties.

    In 2014 “respectable” members of the pro-Zionist Jewish community fundraise for an organization with racist land covenants, work together with Christian fundamentalists and defend Israel’s slaughter of civilians in Gaza, while the harder edge youth attend JDL demonstrations or enlist as “lone soldiers” with a murderous foreign army.

    Shame.

    Yves Engler’s latest book is The Ugly Canadian: Stephen Harper’s Foreign Policy. He’s also the author of Canada and Israel: Building Apartheid.

    July , 2014 http://www.counterpunch.com

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  141. annamaria says:
    @Avery
    German president represents Germany.
    A wartime ally of genocidal Ottoman Turks.

    What does a Sudanese war-criminal president saying something or German minister saying something else have to do with what the German president said about the Armenian Genocide committed by their WW1 ally Turks ?

    Could you also elaborate on the ethnic composition of the leaders of the Socialist Revolution in Russia as well as the main bureaucrats in the secret police (CheKa, NKVD, these dreadful organizations involved in killing out of the best and brightest in the 20th century Russia? A cue: there was a disproportionate presence of ethnic Jews. There are also exist the undeniable evidences of active communication between Zionists and Nazis, including the suggestions for collaboration from the Zionists. Your efforts to place certain ethnic group above other ethnic groups re morality are ridiculous. You attempt to reject the very idea of war-crimes and genocidal policies committed by Jews throughout the history. Here is a terrifying statement for you: Jews are no less bloodthirsty than other ethnic groups. It is also not to your advantage that among the leading US neocons, the disproportionate number are Zionists; see the current results of their war-criminality and genocidal policies in the Middle East.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Avery
    annamarina:

    { Your efforts to place certain ethnic group above other ethnic groups re morality are ridiculous. You attempt to reject the very idea of war-crimes and genocidal policies committed by Jews throughout the history. Here is a terrifying statement for you: Jews are no less bloodthirsty than other ethnic groups.}

    Show me where exactly I did or write that.
    I challenge you.

    I know for a fact Turks committed a Genocide against my ancestors, Armenians.
    I know for a fact that Turks exterminated about 4 million Christians - Armenians, Assyrians, and Pontic Greeks - between 1915-1923.

    Whether Jews are more or less bloodthirsty or not is for somebody else to decide.
    I am concerned about which ethnos committed Genocide against my ethnos.

    Question: I know you are concerned about the well being of all children.
    But are you not in fact most concerned about the welfare of your own children ?
    If you said "No", you'd be lying, because every parent first and foremost will give their life for their own children, but not necessarily for somebody else's.

    And I know what Jews have done and not done to my Armenian ancestors.
    And I know what Turks have done to my Armenian ancestors.
    And I know all about the Jewish-Americans and JA NGOs who are working for Turks in AG denial.

    That's all there is to it.

    , @Avery
    { Could you also elaborate on the ethnic composition of the leaders of the Socialist Revolution in Russia as well as the main bureaucrats in the secret police (CheKa, NKVD, these dreadful organizations involved in killing out of the best and brightest in the 20th century Russia? }

    I am well aware of the ethnic composition of Bolsheviks in 1917 revolution.

    Below is the composition of the first Bolshevik government after the so-called “Russian revolution” of October 1917:
    1. Chairman of the Council of Peoples’ Commissars (prime-minister) – Ulyanov (Lenin). Constituted himself Russian, but was matrilineal Jew (Blank).
    2. Commissar of Foreign Affairs – Chicherin. Constituted himself Russian, but was matrilineal Jew.
    3. Commissar of Nationalities – Dzhugashvili (Stalin). Georgian.
    4. Head of Higher Economic Council – Lourie (Larin). Jew.
    5. Commissar of Food Supply – Schlikhter. Jew.
    6. Commissar of Agriculture – Protian. Armenian.
    7. Commissar of State Control – Lander. Jew.
    8. Commissar of Army and Navy – Bronstein (Trotsky). Jew.
    9. Commissar of State Lands – Kaufmann. Jew.
    10. Commissar of Public Works – Schmidt. Jew.
    11. Commissar of Social Relief – Lilina (Knigissen). Jew.
    12. Commissar of Public Education – Lunacharsky. Constituted himself Russian, but in reality was a convert to Russian Orthodoxy from Judaism.
    13. Commissar of Religions – Spitzberg. Jew.
    14. Commissar of the Interior – Apfelbaum (Zinoviev). Jew.
    15. Commissar of Public Hygiene – Anvelt. Jew.
    16. Commissar of Finance – Gukovsky. Jew.
    17. Commissar of Press – Cohen (Volodarsky). Jew.
    18. Commissar of Elections – Uritsky. Jew.
    19. Commissar of Justice – Shteinberg. Jew.
    20. Commissar of Refugees Affairs – Fenigstein. Jew.
    21. First Aide to Commissar of Refugees Affairs – Ravich. Jew.
    22. Second Aide to Commissar of Refugees Affairs – Zaslavsky. Jew.

    In all, out of 22 members of the first Bolshevik government 17 were Jews, 3 considered themselves Russians (but in reality were either half-Jews or Jewish converts), 1 Georgian, and 1 Armenian.
    For the record: I am Armenian-American.

    As for Israel, Neocons, Denialist Jewish-Americans, etc, etc.
    Myself and most of our Armenian compatriots know it all.
    We know who is working against us, and who is with us.
    Israel is working with Azerbaijan against RoA and NKR , and so are US-Neocons.

    But one must choose and prioritize one’s enemies and adversaries.
    Right now, the two Turkic states, Azerbaijan and Turkey, are an existential threat to Armenia and Artsakh.

    We have to concentrate our limited resources on those two: preventing them from accomplishing what they almost succeeded in 1915-1923: the complete extermination of Armenians from the face of the Earth.
  142. bunga says:

    Free Speech in Western Europe-France

    The post-Charlie Hebdo “free speech” march in Paris was a fraud for multiple reasons, as I wrote at the time. It was led by dozens of world leaders, many of whom imprison or even kill people for expressing prohibited views. It was cheered by many Westerners who feign upset only when free speech abridgments are perpetrated by Muslims, but not — as is far more common — by their own governments against Muslims.

    Worst of all, the march took place in a country that is one of the most hostile to free speech rights in the West, as France quickly demonstrated in the days after the march by rounding up and prosecuting Muslims and other anti-Israel activists for the political views they expressed. A great, best-selling book by French philosopher Emmanuel Todd released this year argues that these “free speech” marches were a “sham,” driven by many political sentiments — nativism, nationalism, anti-Muslim bigotry — that had nothing to do with free speech.

    The absurdity of France’s celebrating itself for free expression was vividly highlighted by this week’s decision from that nation’s highest court, one that is a direct assault on basic free speech rights. The French high court upheld the criminal conviction of 12 political activists for the “crime” of advocating sanctions and a boycott against Israel as a means of ending the decades-long military occupation of Palestine. What did these French criminals do? This: The individuals arrived at the supermarket wearing shirts emblazoned with the words: “Long live Palestine, boycott Israel.” They also handed out fliers that said that “buying Israeli products means legitimizing crimes in Gaza.”

    Because BDS is inherently “discriminatory,” said the court, it is a crime to advocate it.

    https://theintercept.com/2015/10/27/criminalization-of-anti-israel-activism-escalates-this-time-in-the-land-of-the-charlie-hebdo-free-speech-march/

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    • Replies: @Art
    “Because BDS is inherently “discriminatory,” said the court, it is a crime to advocate it.”

    The Jews are shutting down our freedoms one by one. The freedom of non-violent action – the freedom to purchase what is in your best interests are being taken away by the Jews. This is so so wrong – how twisted – one cannot speak out with non-violent words or act in a non-violent manner against evil. The Western peoples mindset for favoring right over wrong and a peaceful world is now against the law.

    The logical conclusion is that the more evil one is – and the more people that speak out about it – the more “discriminatory” it is.

    So be evil and the law will protect you from censure. How crazy is this that a related identity group of people cannot be censured by society?

    The evil Jew is turning Western culture upside down.
  143. bunga says:

    from same site of the above

    “The odious campaign to outlaw activism against the Israeli occupation extends well beyond France. In May, CBC reported that Canadian officials threatened to prosecute BDS activists there under “hate speech” laws, and after those officials denied doing so, we obtained and published the emails proving they did just that. The February Haaretz article described this troubling event in the U.K.: “In 2007, the British University and College Union said it would drop plans to boycott Israeli institutions after legal advisers said doing so would violate anti-discrimination laws.” In 2013, New York City officials joined an (ultimately failed) Alan Dershowitz-led campaign to threaten the funding of Brooklyn College for the crime of hosting pro-BDS speakers.

    Read More
  144. geokat62 says:
    @KA
    Thank you.
    But this is all that you got.
    Page from 333 to 337 and one refernce on page 337
    Henry Morgenthau, Ambassador Morgenthau’s Story

    May be there are more solid arguments by experts with more evidences. But this link isn't the one . May be it is the product of the scientific endeavor or the result of some conference . May be it is the position paper of the expert .
    But there is nothing at the bottom suggesting that is the case .excepting the reference to corroborate Henry Morgenthan

    But this is all that you got.

    Will this do?

    [MORE]

    International organizations[edit]
    International organizations officially recognising the Armenian Genocide include:
    European Parliament (1987,[4] 2000,[5] 2002,[6] 2005[7] 2015[8][9][10])
    Council of Europe[11]
    World Council of Churches[12]
    European Alliance of YMCAs[13]
    Permanent Peoples’ Tribunal[14]
    Mercosur[15]
    United Nations[edit]
    In 1985, the United Nations Sub-Commission on Prevention of Discrimination and Protection of Minorities received a report from Special Rapporteur and Sub-Commission member Benjamin Whitaker (United Kingdom) entitled Revised and Updated Report on the Question of the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (commonly known as The Whitaker Report), in which the Ottoman systematic massacre of Armenians during the World War I was cited as meeting the criteria for the UN definition of genocide and as one of the genocides of the 20th century.[16] His report was received and noted by a resolution at the 38th session of the Sub-Commission in 1985. (E/CN.4/Sub.2/1985/6, 2 July 1985)
    International Association of Genocide Scholars[edit]
    In 1997 the International Association of Genocide Scholars (IAGS) passed a resolution unanimously recognizing the Ottoman massacres of Armenians as genocide:[17][18]
    That this assembly of the Association of Genocide Scholars in its conference held in Montreal, June 11–13, 1997, reaffirms that the mass murder of over a million Armenians in Turkey in 1915 is a case of genocide which conforms to the statutes of the United Nations Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Genocide. It further condemns the denial of the Armenian Genocide by the Turkish government and its official and unofficial agents and supporters.
    — Among the prominent scholars who supported the resolution were: Roger W. Smith (College of William & Mary; President of AGS); Israel Charny (Hebrew University, Jerusalem); Helen Fein (Past President AGS); Frank Chalk (Concordia University, Montreal); Ben Kiernan (Yale University); Anthony Oberschall (University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill); Mark Levene (Warwick University, UK); Rhoda Howard (McMaster University, Canada), Michael Freeman (Essex University, UK), Gunnar Heinsohn (Bremen University, Germany)
    The IAGS has recognized the 1915 genocide in three different resolutions, the latest (October 5, 2007) extending the recognition to also include the Assyrian Genocide and Pontian and Anatolian Greek Genocide among the affected minorities:[19]
    WHEREAS the denial of genocide is widely recognised as the final stage of genocide, enshrining impunity for the perpetrators of genocide, and demonstrably paving the way for future genocides;
    WHEREAS the Ottoman genocide against minority populations during and following the First World War is usually depicted as a genocide against Armenians alone, with little recognition of the qualitatively similar genocides against other Christian minorities of the Ottoman Empire;
    BE IT RESOLVED that it is the conviction of the International Association of Genocide Scholars that the Ottoman campaign against Christian minorities of the Empire between 1914 and 1923 constituted a genocide against Armenians, Assyrians, and Pontian and Anatolian Greeks.
    BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the Association calls upon the government of Turkey to acknowledge the genocides against these populations, to issue a formal apology, and to take prompt and meaningful steps toward restitution.[20]
    The IAGS has consistently identified the Ottoman massacres of Armenians as genocide. For example, on March 7, 2009, in an open letter to President Obama, Gregory Stanton, President IAGS stated “we urge you to ‘refer to the mass slaughter of Armenians as genocide in your commemorative statement,’ as you urged President George W. Bush to do in a letter dated March 18, 2005″.[21]
    In February 2002 an independent legal opinion commissioned by the International Center for Transitional Justice, concluded that the Ottoman massacre of Armenians in 1915–1918 “include[d] all of the elements of the crime of genocide as defined in the [Genocide] Convention, and legal scholars as well as historians, politicians, journalists and other people would be justified in continuing to so describe them”.[22] From page 2 of the report:
    This memorandum was drafted by independent legal counsel based on a request made to the International Center for Transitional Justice (“ICTJ”), on the basis of the Memorandum of Understanding (“MoU”) entered into by The Turkish Armenian Reconciliation Commission (“TARC”) on July 12, 2002 and presentations by members of TARC on September 10, 2002.
    From page 18, D. Conclusion:
    … Because the other three elements identified above have been definitively established, the Events, viewed collectively, can thus be said to include all of the elements of the crime of genocide as defined in the Convention, and legal scholars as well as historians, politicians, journalists and other people would be justified in continuing to so describe them.
    In 2007, the Elie Wiesel Foundation for Humanity wrote a letter signed by 53 Nobel Laureates re-affirming the Genocide Scholars’ conclusion that the 1915 killings of Armenians constituted genocide.[23] Wiesel’s organization also asserted that Turkish acknowledgement of the Armenian Genocide would create no legal “basis for reparations or territorial claims”, anticipating Turkish anxieties that it could prompt financial or territorial claims.[24]
    European Parliament[edit]
    On April 15, 2015, the European Parliament backed a motion that calls the massacre a century ago of up to 1.5 million Armenians by Ottoman Turkish forces a genocide,[25] days after Pope Francis’ message triggered an angry reaction in Turkey by using the same term.[26] The European Parliament sprang to the pope’s defense, commending the message the pontiff had delivered.[8][9][10]
    American Jewish organizations[edit]
    On November 7, 1989 the Union for Reform Judaism passed a resolution on recognition of the Armenian Genocide.[27]
    In 2007, the Anti-Defamation League declared the following press statement:
    We have never negated but have always described the painful events of 1915–1918 perpetrated by the Ottoman Empire against the Armenians as massacres and atrocities. On reflection, we have come to share the view of Henry Morgenthau, Sr. that the consequences of those actions were indeed tantamount to genocide. If the word genocide had existed then, they would have called it genocide.[28]
    In 2014, the American Jewish Committee recognized the Armenian Genocide as a historical fact.[29][30][31]
    Central Council of Jews in Germany[edit]
    The Central Council of Jews in Germany has called on the German government to recognize the World War I mass murder of over one million Armenians in what was then the Ottoman Empire as a genocide.
    “One hundred years ago, in the government of the Ottoman Empire ordered the deportation of one million Armenians. They were murdered directly, or died of starvation and dehydration in the desert,“ Central Council President Josef Schuster told the newspaper ‘Der Tagesspiegel’. He added: “These terrible events should be called what they were: a genocide.”
    Schuster said the Armenian genocide later served Adolf Hitler and his Nazis as a blueprint for the Holocaust.[32][33][34]
    The Zentralrat is the German affiliate of the World Jewish Congress (WJC).
    European People’s Party[edit]
    On 3 March 2015, the European People’s Party (EPP) adopted a resolution recognising and condemning the Armenian Genocide as well as paying tribute to the victims in the 100th anniversary. The EPP, which is the largest European political party, has adopted the resolution following the initiative of its sister parties from Armenia. The EPP includes major parties such as the German Christian Democratic Union (CDU), the French Union for a Popular Movement (UMP), the Spanish Popular Party (PP) and it has member parties in all the EU Member States except for the United Kingdom.[35][36]
    Other[edit]
    Permanent Peoples’ Tribunal[edit]
    In 1984 the Permanent Peoples’ Tribunal made a verdict that the Armenian genocide is “an ‘international crime’ for which the Turkish state must assume responsibility”, and that the United Nations and each of its members “have the right to demand this recognition and to assist the Armenian people to that end”.[37]
    Presbyterian Church (USA)[edit]
    On June 20, 2014, the Presbyterian Church (USA) adopted a resolution recognizing the Armenian Genocide and adopting the 2015 church calendar designating April 26 as the day for its observance.[38][39] It also directed the church’s Mission Agency to prepare educational and liturgical resources for member churches in preparation for this event.[39] This resolution was the first of its kind for a major American church body.[39]
    Parliaments and governments[edit]

    Countries which officially recognize the events as genocide.
    Countries where certain political parties, provinces and/or municipalities have recognized the events as genocide, independently from the government as a whole.
    Countries[edit]
    On May 24, 1915, during World War I, the Allied Powers (Great Britain, France and Russia) jointly issued a statement in which they said that for approximately a month, the Kurdish and Turkish populations of Armenia had been massacring Armenians, with the connivance and often assistance of Ottoman authorities, and that the Allied Powers would hold all officers of the Ottoman Government implicated in such crimes personally responsible for crimes against humanity.[40][41][42]

    French Foreign Office requests following notice be given Turkish Government. Quote. May 24th
    For about a month the Kurd and Turkish populations of Armenia has been massacring Armenians with the connivance and often assistance of Ottoman authorities. Such massacres took place in middle April at Erzerum, Dertchun, Eguine, Akn, Bitlis, Mush, Sassun, Zeitun, and throughout Cilicia. Inhabitants of about one hundred villages near Van were all murdered. In that city Armenian quarter is besieged by Kurds. At the same time in Constantinople Ottoman Government ill-treats inoffensive Armenian population. In view of those new crimes of Turkey against humanity and civilization, the Allied governments announce publicly to the Sublime-Porte that they will hold personally responsible [for] these crimes all members of the Ottoman government and those of their agents who are implicated in such massacres.[40]

    In recent years, parliaments of several countries have formally recognized the event as genocide. Turkish entry talks with the European Union were met with a number of calls to consider the event as genocide,[43][44][45] though it never became a precondition.
    As of May 2015, 28 states have officially recognized the historical events as genocide…

    Read More
  145. Hugo says:
    @Andrew E. Mathis
    I'm sorry, was I talking to you?

    Dont really give a phuck. Cant ignore Jewish supremacist propaganda.

    Read More
  146. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    If only those Jews, oops, I mean Zionist oppressors, would quit running into those innocent Pali knives.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hugo
    If only those 14 year old Palestinian boys, oops, I mean Islamic extremist terrorists would stop attacking those innocent, powerless, Israeli tanks with rocks..

    Go Hasbra go!!!
  147. annamaria says:

    Do not forget the small “photogenic corpses” (Bibi’s contribution to the discourse) and the vicious toddler that burnt himself alive to give a bad name to the peaceful, innocent settlers. Poor Israel – defenseless, moneyless, locked into a ghetto… Oops!

    Read More
  148. KA says:
    @geokat62

    But this is all that you got.
     
    Will this do?

    International organizations[edit]
    International organizations officially recognising the Armenian Genocide include:
    European Parliament (1987,[4] 2000,[5] 2002,[6] 2005[7] 2015[8][9][10])
    Council of Europe[11]
    World Council of Churches[12]
    European Alliance of YMCAs[13]
    Permanent Peoples' Tribunal[14]
    Mercosur[15]
    United Nations[edit]
    In 1985, the United Nations Sub-Commission on Prevention of Discrimination and Protection of Minorities received a report from Special Rapporteur and Sub-Commission member Benjamin Whitaker (United Kingdom) entitled Revised and Updated Report on the Question of the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (commonly known as The Whitaker Report), in which the Ottoman systematic massacre of Armenians during the World War I was cited as meeting the criteria for the UN definition of genocide and as one of the genocides of the 20th century.[16] His report was received and noted by a resolution at the 38th session of the Sub-Commission in 1985. (E/CN.4/Sub.2/1985/6, 2 July 1985)
    International Association of Genocide Scholars[edit]
    In 1997 the International Association of Genocide Scholars (IAGS) passed a resolution unanimously recognizing the Ottoman massacres of Armenians as genocide:[17][18]
    That this assembly of the Association of Genocide Scholars in its conference held in Montreal, June 11–13, 1997, reaffirms that the mass murder of over a million Armenians in Turkey in 1915 is a case of genocide which conforms to the statutes of the United Nations Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Genocide. It further condemns the denial of the Armenian Genocide by the Turkish government and its official and unofficial agents and supporters.
    — Among the prominent scholars who supported the resolution were: Roger W. Smith (College of William & Mary; President of AGS); Israel Charny (Hebrew University, Jerusalem); Helen Fein (Past President AGS); Frank Chalk (Concordia University, Montreal); Ben Kiernan (Yale University); Anthony Oberschall (University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill); Mark Levene (Warwick University, UK); Rhoda Howard (McMaster University, Canada), Michael Freeman (Essex University, UK), Gunnar Heinsohn (Bremen University, Germany)
    The IAGS has recognized the 1915 genocide in three different resolutions, the latest (October 5, 2007) extending the recognition to also include the Assyrian Genocide and Pontian and Anatolian Greek Genocide among the affected minorities:[19]
    WHEREAS the denial of genocide is widely recognised as the final stage of genocide, enshrining impunity for the perpetrators of genocide, and demonstrably paving the way for future genocides;
    WHEREAS the Ottoman genocide against minority populations during and following the First World War is usually depicted as a genocide against Armenians alone, with little recognition of the qualitatively similar genocides against other Christian minorities of the Ottoman Empire;
    BE IT RESOLVED that it is the conviction of the International Association of Genocide Scholars that the Ottoman campaign against Christian minorities of the Empire between 1914 and 1923 constituted a genocide against Armenians, Assyrians, and Pontian and Anatolian Greeks.
    BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the Association calls upon the government of Turkey to acknowledge the genocides against these populations, to issue a formal apology, and to take prompt and meaningful steps toward restitution.[20]
    The IAGS has consistently identified the Ottoman massacres of Armenians as genocide. For example, on March 7, 2009, in an open letter to President Obama, Gregory Stanton, President IAGS stated "we urge you to 'refer to the mass slaughter of Armenians as genocide in your commemorative statement,' as you urged President George W. Bush to do in a letter dated March 18, 2005".[21]
    In February 2002 an independent legal opinion commissioned by the International Center for Transitional Justice, concluded that the Ottoman massacre of Armenians in 1915–1918 "include[d] all of the elements of the crime of genocide as defined in the [Genocide] Convention, and legal scholars as well as historians, politicians, journalists and other people would be justified in continuing to so describe them".[22] From page 2 of the report:
    This memorandum was drafted by independent legal counsel based on a request made to the International Center for Transitional Justice ("ICTJ"), on the basis of the Memorandum of Understanding ("MoU") entered into by The Turkish Armenian Reconciliation Commission ("TARC") on July 12, 2002 and presentations by members of TARC on September 10, 2002.
    From page 18, D. Conclusion:
    ... Because the other three elements identified above have been definitively established, the Events, viewed collectively, can thus be said to include all of the elements of the crime of genocide as defined in the Convention, and legal scholars as well as historians, politicians, journalists and other people would be justified in continuing to so describe them.
    In 2007, the Elie Wiesel Foundation for Humanity wrote a letter signed by 53 Nobel Laureates re-affirming the Genocide Scholars' conclusion that the 1915 killings of Armenians constituted genocide.[23] Wiesel's organization also asserted that Turkish acknowledgement of the Armenian Genocide would create no legal "basis for reparations or territorial claims", anticipating Turkish anxieties that it could prompt financial or territorial claims.[24]
    European Parliament[edit]
    On April 15, 2015, the European Parliament backed a motion that calls the massacre a century ago of up to 1.5 million Armenians by Ottoman Turkish forces a genocide,[25] days after Pope Francis' message triggered an angry reaction in Turkey by using the same term.[26] The European Parliament sprang to the pope's defense, commending the message the pontiff had delivered.[8][9][10]
    American Jewish organizations[edit]
    On November 7, 1989 the Union for Reform Judaism passed a resolution on recognition of the Armenian Genocide.[27]
    In 2007, the Anti-Defamation League declared the following press statement:
    We have never negated but have always described the painful events of 1915–1918 perpetrated by the Ottoman Empire against the Armenians as massacres and atrocities. On reflection, we have come to share the view of Henry Morgenthau, Sr. that the consequences of those actions were indeed tantamount to genocide. If the word genocide had existed then, they would have called it genocide.[28]
    In 2014, the American Jewish Committee recognized the Armenian Genocide as a historical fact.[29][30][31]
    Central Council of Jews in Germany[edit]
    The Central Council of Jews in Germany has called on the German government to recognize the World War I mass murder of over one million Armenians in what was then the Ottoman Empire as a genocide.
    "One hundred years ago, in the government of the Ottoman Empire ordered the deportation of one million Armenians. They were murdered directly, or died of starvation and dehydration in the desert,“ Central Council President Josef Schuster told the newspaper ‘Der Tagesspiegel’. He added: “These terrible events should be called what they were: a genocide.”
    Schuster said the Armenian genocide later served Adolf Hitler and his Nazis as a blueprint for the Holocaust.[32][33][34]
    The Zentralrat is the German affiliate of the World Jewish Congress (WJC).
    European People's Party[edit]
    On 3 March 2015, the European People's Party (EPP) adopted a resolution recognising and condemning the Armenian Genocide as well as paying tribute to the victims in the 100th anniversary. The EPP, which is the largest European political party, has adopted the resolution following the initiative of its sister parties from Armenia. The EPP includes major parties such as the German Christian Democratic Union (CDU), the French Union for a Popular Movement (UMP), the Spanish Popular Party (PP) and it has member parties in all the EU Member States except for the United Kingdom.[35][36]
    Other[edit]
    Permanent Peoples' Tribunal[edit]
    In 1984 the Permanent Peoples' Tribunal made a verdict that the Armenian genocide is "an 'international crime' for which the Turkish state must assume responsibility", and that the United Nations and each of its members "have the right to demand this recognition and to assist the Armenian people to that end".[37]
    Presbyterian Church (USA)[edit]
    On June 20, 2014, the Presbyterian Church (USA) adopted a resolution recognizing the Armenian Genocide and adopting the 2015 church calendar designating April 26 as the day for its observance.[38][39] It also directed the church’s Mission Agency to prepare educational and liturgical resources for member churches in preparation for this event.[39] This resolution was the first of its kind for a major American church body.[39]
    Parliaments and governments[edit]
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d2/Nations_recognising_the_Armenian_Genocide.svg/400px-Nations_recognising_the_Armenian_Genocide.svg.png
    Countries which officially recognize the events as genocide.
    Countries where certain political parties, provinces and/or municipalities have recognized the events as genocide, independently from the government as a whole.
    Countries[edit]
    On May 24, 1915, during World War I, the Allied Powers (Great Britain, France and Russia) jointly issued a statement in which they said that for approximately a month, the Kurdish and Turkish populations of Armenia had been massacring Armenians, with the connivance and often assistance of Ottoman authorities, and that the Allied Powers would hold all officers of the Ottoman Government implicated in such crimes personally responsible for crimes against humanity.[40][41][42]

    French Foreign Office requests following notice be given Turkish Government. Quote. May 24th
    For about a month the Kurd and Turkish populations of Armenia has been massacring Armenians with the connivance and often assistance of Ottoman authorities. Such massacres took place in middle April at Erzerum, Dertchun, Eguine, Akn, Bitlis, Mush, Sassun, Zeitun, and throughout Cilicia. Inhabitants of about one hundred villages near Van were all murdered. In that city Armenian quarter is besieged by Kurds. At the same time in Constantinople Ottoman Government ill-treats inoffensive Armenian population. In view of those new crimes of Turkey against humanity and civilization, the Allied governments announce publicly to the Sublime-Porte that they will hold personally responsible [for] these crimes all members of the Ottoman government and those of their agents who are implicated in such massacres.[40]

    In recent years, parliaments of several countries have formally recognized the event as genocide. Turkish entry talks with the European Union were met with a number of calls to consider the event as genocide,[43][44][45] though it never became a precondition.
    As of May 2015, 28 states have officially recognized the historical events as genocide...
     

    Thank you .

    Read More
  149. Anonymouse says: • Website

    The knife-wielders say that they die for the Al-Aksa mosque complex to remain Islamic. You left that part out.

    Read More
    • Replies: @bunga
    what about this part -


    Shoving of SJP activist seen as part of campaign of ‘intimidation’ on campus [California ]
    Activism Alex Kane on October 30, 2015
    www.mondoweiss.net
  150. bunga says:
    @Anonymouse
    The knife-wielders say that they die for the Al-Aksa mosque complex to remain Islamic. You left that part out.

    what about this part -

    Shoving of SJP activist seen as part of campaign of ‘intimidation’ on campus [California ]
    Activism Alex Kane on October 30, 2015
    http://www.mondoweiss.net

    Read More
  151. Hugo says:
    @Anonymous
    If only those Jews, oops, I mean Zionist oppressors, would quit running into those innocent Pali knives.

    If only those 14 year old Palestinian boys, oops, I mean Islamic extremist terrorists would stop attacking those innocent, powerless, Israeli tanks with rocks..

    Go Hasbra go!!!

    Read More
  152. Avery says:
    @annamaria
    Could you also elaborate on the ethnic composition of the leaders of the Socialist Revolution in Russia as well as the main bureaucrats in the secret police (CheKa, NKVD, these dreadful organizations involved in killing out of the best and brightest in the 20th century Russia? A cue: there was a disproportionate presence of ethnic Jews. There are also exist the undeniable evidences of active communication between Zionists and Nazis, including the suggestions for collaboration from the Zionists. Your efforts to place certain ethnic group above other ethnic groups re morality are ridiculous. You attempt to reject the very idea of war-crimes and genocidal policies committed by Jews throughout the history. Here is a terrifying statement for you: Jews are no less bloodthirsty than other ethnic groups. It is also not to your advantage that among the leading US neocons, the disproportionate number are Zionists; see the current results of their war-criminality and genocidal policies in the Middle East.

    annamarina:

    { Your efforts to place certain ethnic group above other ethnic groups re morality are ridiculous. You attempt to reject the very idea of war-crimes and genocidal policies committed by Jews throughout the history. Here is a terrifying statement for you: Jews are no less bloodthirsty than other ethnic groups.}

    Show me where exactly I did or write that.
    I challenge you.

    I know for a fact Turks committed a Genocide against my ancestors, Armenians.
    I know for a fact that Turks exterminated about 4 million Christians – Armenians, Assyrians, and Pontic Greeks – between 1915-1923.

    Whether Jews are more or less bloodthirsty or not is for somebody else to decide.
    I am concerned about which ethnos committed Genocide against my ethnos.

    Question: I know you are concerned about the well being of all children.
    But are you not in fact most concerned about the welfare of your own children ?
    If you said “No”, you’d be lying, because every parent first and foremost will give their life for their own children, but not necessarily for somebody else’s.

    And I know what Jews have done and not done to my Armenian ancestors.
    And I know what Turks have done to my Armenian ancestors.
    And I know all about the Jewish-Americans and JA NGOs who are working for Turks in AG denial.

    That’s all there is to it.

    Read More
  153. Avery says:
    @annamaria
    Could you also elaborate on the ethnic composition of the leaders of the Socialist Revolution in Russia as well as the main bureaucrats in the secret police (CheKa, NKVD, these dreadful organizations involved in killing out of the best and brightest in the 20th century Russia? A cue: there was a disproportionate presence of ethnic Jews. There are also exist the undeniable evidences of active communication between Zionists and Nazis, including the suggestions for collaboration from the Zionists. Your efforts to place certain ethnic group above other ethnic groups re morality are ridiculous. You attempt to reject the very idea of war-crimes and genocidal policies committed by Jews throughout the history. Here is a terrifying statement for you: Jews are no less bloodthirsty than other ethnic groups. It is also not to your advantage that among the leading US neocons, the disproportionate number are Zionists; see the current results of their war-criminality and genocidal policies in the Middle East.

    { Could you also elaborate on the ethnic composition of the leaders of the Socialist Revolution in Russia as well as the main bureaucrats in the secret police (CheKa, NKVD, these dreadful organizations involved in killing out of the best and brightest in the 20th century Russia? }

    I am well aware of the ethnic composition of Bolsheviks in 1917 revolution.

    Below is the composition of the first Bolshevik government after the so-called “Russian revolution” of October 1917:
    1. Chairman of the Council of Peoples’ Commissars (prime-minister) – Ulyanov (Lenin). Constituted himself Russian, but was matrilineal Jew (Blank).
    2. Commissar of Foreign Affairs – Chicherin. Constituted himself Russian, but was matrilineal Jew.
    3. Commissar of Nationalities – Dzhugashvili (Stalin). Georgian.
    4. Head of Higher Economic Council – Lourie (Larin). Jew.
    5. Commissar of Food Supply – Schlikhter. Jew.
    6. Commissar of Agriculture – Protian. Armenian.
    7. Commissar of State Control – Lander. Jew.
    8. Commissar of Army and Navy – Bronstein (Trotsky). Jew.
    9. Commissar of State Lands – Kaufmann. Jew.
    10. Commissar of Public Works – Schmidt. Jew.
    11. Commissar of Social Relief – Lilina (Knigissen). Jew.
    12. Commissar of Public Education – Lunacharsky. Constituted himself Russian, but in reality was a convert to Russian Orthodoxy from Judaism.
    13. Commissar of Religions – Spitzberg. Jew.
    14. Commissar of the Interior – Apfelbaum (Zinoviev). Jew.
    15. Commissar of Public Hygiene – Anvelt. Jew.
    16. Commissar of Finance – Gukovsky. Jew.
    17. Commissar of Press – Cohen (Volodarsky). Jew.
    18. Commissar of Elections – Uritsky. Jew.
    19. Commissar of Justice – Shteinberg. Jew.
    20. Commissar of Refugees Affairs – Fenigstein. Jew.
    21. First Aide to Commissar of Refugees Affairs – Ravich. Jew.
    22. Second Aide to Commissar of Refugees Affairs – Zaslavsky. Jew.

    In all, out of 22 members of the first Bolshevik government 17 were Jews, 3 considered themselves Russians (but in reality were either half-Jews or Jewish converts), 1 Georgian, and 1 Armenian.
    For the record: I am Armenian-American.

    As for Israel, Neocons, Denialist Jewish-Americans, etc, etc.
    Myself and most of our Armenian compatriots know it all.
    We know who is working against us, and who is with us.
    Israel is working with Azerbaijan against RoA and NKR , and so are US-Neocons.

    But one must choose and prioritize one’s enemies and adversaries.
    Right now, the two Turkic states, Azerbaijan and Turkey, are an existential threat to Armenia and Artsakh.

    We have to concentrate our limited resources on those two: preventing them from accomplishing what they almost succeeded in 1915-1923: the complete extermination of Armenians from the face of the Earth.

    Read More
    • Replies: @This Is Our Home

    1. Chairman of the Council of Peoples’ Commissars (prime-minister) – Ulyanov (Lenin). Constituted himself Russian, but was matrilineal Jew (Blank).
     
    His maternal grandfather was Jewish but his maternal grandmother was not, so he was not a matrilineal Jew. Or indeed any kind of Jew - maybe a Jewdroon?!?

    And the rest of that list is cherry-picked from all different years to be as Jewish as possible.

    It would be like waiting a century and telling someone that all 20th Century leaders were women because in 1990:

    Thatcher, UK
    Merkel, Germany
    Clinton, US
    Gandhi, India

    Etc.

    In other words it is a lie. I always find that the side that makes its point through outright falsifications has nothing interesting to say. I mean, what is this lie supposed to achieve?

    People live in empty anomie now and the best critics can do is come up with fake lists from 1919?

    http://semiticcontroversies.blogspot.co.uk/2008/10/judeo-bolshevik-debacle.html?m=1

  154. RobinG says:

    Canada also attacks free speech (and thought). Don’t expose the Talmud in Canada!

    Canadian Arthur Topham, 68, operates the “Radical Press,” a website. On May 16, 2012, he was arrested and charged with a “hate crime.” After an investigation demanded by B’nai Brith Canada, Topham was charged with a single count of “willfully promoting hatred against people of the Jewish religion or ethnic group,”

    http://revisionistreview.blogspot.com/2015/10/another-thought-crime-trial-underway-in.html

    Charges against Topham apparently resulted from his criticism of the Talmud. Expert witness Gilad Atzmon is in British Columbia now to testify in Topham’s defense. (I am not kidding!)

    http://henrymakow.com/2015/10/talmud-raised-at-thought-crime.html

    This might be funny if the consequences and implications were not so grave.
    If found guilty, Mr. Topham faces imprisonment and a substantial fine. Local and national Canadian media are blacking out news of the case. Info.news is the nearest news outlet. The editor, M. Jones, can be contacted as follows: email mjones@infonews.ca or telephone 250-718-2724.

    Read More
    • Replies: @geokat62

    Charges against Topham apparently resulted from his criticism of the Talmud.
     
    Thanks for sharing that link. When I clicked on it, it took me to a page that contained this quote:

    Jehovah created the non-Jew in human form so that the Jew would not have to be served by beasts. The non-Jew is consequently an animal in human form, and condemned to serve the Jew day and night.

    Midrasch Talpioth, p. 225-L
     
    I once had an exchange with Sam S about the meaning of "goyem." Sam, if this is an authentic excerpt from the Talmud, does it not support my contention that "goyem" connotes "cattle," as the term "non-Jew" in this quote would probably be "goyem" in the Hebrew original?
  155. geokat62 says:
    @RobinG
    Canada also attacks free speech (and thought). Don't expose the Talmud in Canada!

    Canadian Arthur Topham, 68, operates the “Radical Press,” a website. On May 16, 2012, he was arrested and charged with a "hate crime." After an investigation demanded by B’nai Brith Canada, Topham was charged with a single count of "willfully promoting hatred against people of the Jewish religion or ethnic group,”
    http://revisionistreview.blogspot.com/2015/10/another-thought-crime-trial-underway-in.html

    Charges against Topham apparently resulted from his criticism of the Talmud. Expert witness Gilad Atzmon is in British Columbia now to testify in Topham's defense. (I am not kidding!)
    http://henrymakow.com/2015/10/talmud-raised-at-thought-crime.html

    This might be funny if the consequences and implications were not so grave.
    If found guilty, Mr. Topham faces imprisonment and a substantial fine. Local and national Canadian media are blacking out news of the case. Info.news is the nearest news outlet. The editor, M. Jones, can be contacted as follows: email mjones@infonews.ca or telephone 250-718-2724.

    Charges against Topham apparently resulted from his criticism of the Talmud.

    Thanks for sharing that link. When I clicked on it, it took me to a page that contained this quote:

    Jehovah created the non-Jew in human form so that the Jew would not have to be served by beasts. The non-Jew is consequently an animal in human form, and condemned to serve the Jew day and night.

    Midrasch Talpioth, p. 225-L

    I once had an exchange with Sam S about the meaning of “goyem.” Sam, if this is an authentic excerpt from the Talmud, does it not support my contention that “goyem” connotes “cattle,” as the term “non-Jew” in this quote would probably be “goyem” in the Hebrew original?

    Read More
    • Replies: @RobinG
    Geo,

    On Topham's website, his statement is general, not specific, but a glance at his blog roll will tell you why the Israel-first racists would be gunning for him.

    He says, "The controversy surrounding the Jews throughout history has now reached the point of culmination. Their mission to stop the truth from being revealed. whenever it applies to their own culpable actions, by using the criminal court system to attack the truth revealers is doomed to end in failure just as their efforts to stop the Internet from exposing their heinous acts of terror and murder and destruction perpetrated upon the defenceless Semitic people of Palestine has proven to be unstoppable.

    "The Age of Orwellian Censorship is coming to an end and it behooves all people of all races, nationalities, ethnicities and colour including the Jews to recognize that no single group of people has the right or the power or the ability to stem the tide of evolutionary consciousness that’s now happening on this planet.

    "It’s for these basic reasons that I have fought against the Zionist efforts to control our basic human rights over the past nine years. Now we will see if the country is willing to protect its most precious of gift – the freedom to speak one’s mind and express one’s views on whatever issues they deem of value to sustain our God given right to live in peace and happiness without fear and war."

    http://www.radicalpress.com/?p=8341
    , @KA
    Wow!
    , @KA
    "As soon as it was published late last year,Torat Ha'Melech sparked a national uproar. The controversy began when an Israeli tabloid panned the book's contents as "230 pages on the laws concerning the killing of non-Jews, a kind of guidebook for anyone who ponders the question of if and when it is permissible to take the life of a non-Jew." According to the book's author, Rabbi Yitzhak Shapira, "Non-Jews are "uncompassionate by nature" and should be killed in order to "curb their evil inclinations." "If we kill a gentile who has has violated one of the seven commandments… there is nothing wrong with the murder," Shapira insisted. Citing Jewish law as his source (or at least a very selective interpretation of it) he declared: "There is justification for killing babies if it is clear that they will grow up to harm us, and in such a situation they may be harmed deliberately, and not only during combat with adults."

    http://www.alternet.org/story/148016/how_to_kill_goyim_and_influence_people%3A_israeli_rabbis_defend_book's_shocking_religious_defense_of_killing_non-jews_(with_video)
    , @Sam Shama
    geo,

    The short and truthful answer to this inquiry is : yes and no, with a heavy emphasis on the 'no'.

    The Midrashim, from which the above section is claimed to be lifted, are critical discussions and interpretations of the Torah principally, and more generally of the Tanakh = Torah + Ne'vi'im + K'tuvim (the Teachings + the Prophets + Writings).

    The first thing I must tell you about the Talmud, which is the entire legalistic codification of the Oral tradition of the Torah (called the Halakha), plus the discussion and debates on those codifications, is that it is HUGE (more than 6000 pages) : No one I believe can derive an unambiguous meaning from a linear reading (i.e., from page 1 to page 6000). Not because it is meant to confuse, but because it is an unplanned collection over many centuries.

    If we had collected all the laws, rules and traditions, of say, England, from its Germanic antiquity, to the Crusades, to the Conqueror to Henry the VIII to Elizabeth and stretching all the way to the present set of civil (common) and corporate laws, we would essentially be dealing with an unwieldy, internally inconsistent and in the end mostly useless document. Mostly useless that is, unless a body of logical principles that harnessed it over the chronology.

    In the case of the Talmud, this harnessing instrument is the insertion of the 71 Sanhedrin , judges, who are charged with interpreting, validating and rejecting particular uses of laws and traditions in the context of the present.

    So, passages of the type listed above are certainly there in the Talmud, but entirely meaningless. Those passages were written during the crusades when severe oppression of non-Christians led to an expected reaction from the rabbis who wanted to preserve any cultural and religious tradition that they possibly could. They resorted to whatever means at their disposal, including branding friendly surrounding non-jewish communities as non-human. It really is no different than some present day HBD'ers decrying the mixing of races (search the pages of UR, you cannot miss them. At least the rabbis in those days were trying to prevent a complete assimilation of the Jewish peoples!). Also the fact of the matter is, a great many Talmudic principles were written exclusively for Jews and did not apply to others.

    the term 'Goy' (singular) or 'Goyim' plural as applied throughout the received interpretation of the Sh'mot, Va'ikra, D'Varim and basically the exegesis of Tanakh, is that of 'Citizen' or 'Citizens' as distinct from the 'Yehud' and 'Yehudim' who typically were not citizens!

    This rubbish that is getting some circulation here at the UR, and other internet venues, is the result of the actions of a very small minority of creatures in the WB and those who would jump at the opportunity to discredit the much larger modern Jewish community. I can't tell you how stupid the use of these midrashim are, with or without any modernist layering, simply by observing other halachic laws that go squarely against any interpretation of 'Goyim' as 'cattle'! For example in Jewish laws of matrimony and extra-matrimonial relationships, if a Jewish woman bears the illegitimate child from another Jewish man, then the child - a mamzer - is not considered a part of the community, whereas if the child is sired by a 'Goy' then he/she is considered a Jew! Do you see the inherent inconsistency of that rendition of the law with the identification Goyim as beasts?!!!

    Let put an end to this deleterious nonsense, at least amongst us, the civilised and educated lot shall we?

  156. RobinG says:
    @geokat62

    Charges against Topham apparently resulted from his criticism of the Talmud.
     
    Thanks for sharing that link. When I clicked on it, it took me to a page that contained this quote:

    Jehovah created the non-Jew in human form so that the Jew would not have to be served by beasts. The non-Jew is consequently an animal in human form, and condemned to serve the Jew day and night.

    Midrasch Talpioth, p. 225-L
     
    I once had an exchange with Sam S about the meaning of "goyem." Sam, if this is an authentic excerpt from the Talmud, does it not support my contention that "goyem" connotes "cattle," as the term "non-Jew" in this quote would probably be "goyem" in the Hebrew original?

    Geo,

    On Topham’s website, his statement is general, not specific, but a glance at his blog roll will tell you why the Israel-first racists would be gunning for him.

    He says, “The controversy surrounding the Jews throughout history has now reached the point of culmination. Their mission to stop the truth from being revealed. whenever it applies to their own culpable actions, by using the criminal court system to attack the truth revealers is doomed to end in failure just as their efforts to stop the Internet from exposing their heinous acts of terror and murder and destruction perpetrated upon the defenceless Semitic people of Palestine has proven to be unstoppable.

    “The Age of Orwellian Censorship is coming to an end and it behooves all people of all races, nationalities, ethnicities and colour including the Jews to recognize that no single group of people has the right or the power or the ability to stem the tide of evolutionary consciousness that’s now happening on this planet.

    “It’s for these basic reasons that I have fought against the Zionist efforts to control our basic human rights over the past nine years. Now we will see if the country is willing to protect its most precious of gift – the freedom to speak one’s mind and express one’s views on whatever issues they deem of value to sustain our God given right to live in peace and happiness without fear and war.”

    http://www.radicalpress.com/?p=8341

    Read More
  157. KA says:
    @geokat62

    Charges against Topham apparently resulted from his criticism of the Talmud.
     
    Thanks for sharing that link. When I clicked on it, it took me to a page that contained this quote:

    Jehovah created the non-Jew in human form so that the Jew would not have to be served by beasts. The non-Jew is consequently an animal in human form, and condemned to serve the Jew day and night.

    Midrasch Talpioth, p. 225-L
     
    I once had an exchange with Sam S about the meaning of "goyem." Sam, if this is an authentic excerpt from the Talmud, does it not support my contention that "goyem" connotes "cattle," as the term "non-Jew" in this quote would probably be "goyem" in the Hebrew original?

    Wow!

    Read More
  158. KA says:
    @geokat62

    Charges against Topham apparently resulted from his criticism of the Talmud.
     
    Thanks for sharing that link. When I clicked on it, it took me to a page that contained this quote:

    Jehovah created the non-Jew in human form so that the Jew would not have to be served by beasts. The non-Jew is consequently an animal in human form, and condemned to serve the Jew day and night.

    Midrasch Talpioth, p. 225-L
     
    I once had an exchange with Sam S about the meaning of "goyem." Sam, if this is an authentic excerpt from the Talmud, does it not support my contention that "goyem" connotes "cattle," as the term "non-Jew" in this quote would probably be "goyem" in the Hebrew original?

    “As soon as it was published late last year,Torat Ha’Melech sparked a national uproar. The controversy began when an Israeli tabloid panned the book’s contents as “230 pages on the laws concerning the killing of non-Jews, a kind of guidebook for anyone who ponders the question of if and when it is permissible to take the life of a non-Jew.” According to the book’s author, Rabbi Yitzhak Shapira, “Non-Jews are “uncompassionate by nature” and should be killed in order to “curb their evil inclinations.” “If we kill a gentile who has has violated one of the seven commandments… there is nothing wrong with the murder,” Shapira insisted. Citing Jewish law as his source (or at least a very selective interpretation of it) he declared: “There is justification for killing babies if it is clear that they will grow up to harm us, and in such a situation they may be harmed deliberately, and not only during combat with adults.”

    http://www.alternet.org/story/148016/how_to_kill_goyim_and_influence_people%3A_israeli_rabbis_defend_book’s_shocking_religious_defense_of_killing_non-jews_(with_video)

    Read More
  159. This Is Our Home [AKA "Robert Rediger"] says:
    @Avery
    { Could you also elaborate on the ethnic composition of the leaders of the Socialist Revolution in Russia as well as the main bureaucrats in the secret police (CheKa, NKVD, these dreadful organizations involved in killing out of the best and brightest in the 20th century Russia? }

    I am well aware of the ethnic composition of Bolsheviks in 1917 revolution.

    Below is the composition of the first Bolshevik government after the so-called “Russian revolution” of October 1917:
    1. Chairman of the Council of Peoples’ Commissars (prime-minister) – Ulyanov (Lenin). Constituted himself Russian, but was matrilineal Jew (Blank).
    2. Commissar of Foreign Affairs – Chicherin. Constituted himself Russian, but was matrilineal Jew.
    3. Commissar of Nationalities – Dzhugashvili (Stalin). Georgian.
    4. Head of Higher Economic Council – Lourie (Larin). Jew.
    5. Commissar of Food Supply – Schlikhter. Jew.
    6. Commissar of Agriculture – Protian. Armenian.
    7. Commissar of State Control – Lander. Jew.
    8. Commissar of Army and Navy – Bronstein (Trotsky). Jew.
    9. Commissar of State Lands – Kaufmann. Jew.
    10. Commissar of Public Works – Schmidt. Jew.
    11. Commissar of Social Relief – Lilina (Knigissen). Jew.
    12. Commissar of Public Education – Lunacharsky. Constituted himself Russian, but in reality was a convert to Russian Orthodoxy from Judaism.
    13. Commissar of Religions – Spitzberg. Jew.
    14. Commissar of the Interior – Apfelbaum (Zinoviev). Jew.
    15. Commissar of Public Hygiene – Anvelt. Jew.
    16. Commissar of Finance – Gukovsky. Jew.
    17. Commissar of Press – Cohen (Volodarsky). Jew.
    18. Commissar of Elections – Uritsky. Jew.
    19. Commissar of Justice – Shteinberg. Jew.
    20. Commissar of Refugees Affairs – Fenigstein. Jew.
    21. First Aide to Commissar of Refugees Affairs – Ravich. Jew.
    22. Second Aide to Commissar of Refugees Affairs – Zaslavsky. Jew.

    In all, out of 22 members of the first Bolshevik government 17 were Jews, 3 considered themselves Russians (but in reality were either half-Jews or Jewish converts), 1 Georgian, and 1 Armenian.
    For the record: I am Armenian-American.

    As for Israel, Neocons, Denialist Jewish-Americans, etc, etc.
    Myself and most of our Armenian compatriots know it all.
    We know who is working against us, and who is with us.
    Israel is working with Azerbaijan against RoA and NKR , and so are US-Neocons.

    But one must choose and prioritize one’s enemies and adversaries.
    Right now, the two Turkic states, Azerbaijan and Turkey, are an existential threat to Armenia and Artsakh.

    We have to concentrate our limited resources on those two: preventing them from accomplishing what they almost succeeded in 1915-1923: the complete extermination of Armenians from the face of the Earth.

    1. Chairman of the Council of Peoples’ Commissars (prime-minister) – Ulyanov (Lenin). Constituted himself Russian, but was matrilineal Jew (Blank).

    His maternal grandfather was Jewish but his maternal grandmother was not, so he was not a matrilineal Jew. Or indeed any kind of Jew – maybe a Jewdroon?!?

    And the rest of that list is cherry-picked from all different years to be as Jewish as possible.

    It would be like waiting a century and telling someone that all 20th Century leaders were women because in 1990:

    Thatcher, UK
    Merkel, Germany
    Clinton, US
    Gandhi, India

    Etc.

    In other words it is a lie. I always find that the side that makes its point through outright falsifications has nothing interesting to say. I mean, what is this lie supposed to achieve?

    People live in empty anomie now and the best critics can do is come up with fake lists from 1919?

    http://semiticcontroversies.blogspot.co.uk/2008/10/judeo-bolshevik-debacle.html?m=1

    Read More
    • Replies: @geokat62

    In other words it is a lie.
     
    Here's a direct quote from your source:

    The jewish overrepresentation of the high positions of power in the USSR/Bolshevik apparatus was indeed notable in its early years...
     
    , @Avery
    [We mustn't forget that some of greatest murderers of modern times were Jewish]
    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3342999,00.html

    { In 1934, according to published statistics, 38.5 percent of those holding the most senior posts in the Soviet security apparatuses were of Jewish origin.}

    [Who is a Jew?]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_is_a_Jew%3F


    {Reform and Liberal Judaism do not accept the halakhic rules as binding, and accept a child of one Jewish parent, whether father or mother, as Jewish if the parents raise the child as a Jew and foster a Jewish identity in the child, noting that "in the Bible the line always followed the father, including the cases of Joseph and Moses, who married into non-Israelite priestly families."[10] (However, according to the oral tradition of Orthodox Judaism, the spouses of both Joseph and Moses converted to Judaism prior to marrying them.) }

    {Karaite Judaism believes that Jewish identity can only be transmitted by patrilineal descent. They argue that only patrilineal descent can transmit Jewish identity on the grounds that all descent in the Torah went according to the male line, basing this idea "on the fact that, in the Bible, tribes are given male names and that biblical characters are always referenced by their fathers' names.[15] However, a minority of modern Karaites believe that Jewish identity requires that both parents be Jewish, and not only the father.[16]}


    In other words, it is not a lie.
    You use one standard of who is a Jew, and somebody else uses another.

    Finally:

    Please refer to this site.
    http://www.jinfo.org/

    I don’t know the guy, but he appears to be a proud Jew.
    Good for him.
    He has a list of famous people who he considers Jewish.
    I didn’t go through all the names.
    But went to the Chess players list.
    http://www.jinfo.org/Chess_Players.html
    There I see Garry Kasparov. (..now you know why I went there...)
    Probably the greatest chess player of all time (…aside from the fact that his political views are irrational…)
    The guy who runs the site considers Kasparov Jewish, even though his mother was Armenian and father Jewish.
    (Kasparov took his mother's last name).
    There are quite a few other famous people whom the site identifies as Jewish, with the footnote: ‘Jewish father, non-Jewish mother’.

    The point is, certain Jewish people will consider someone a Jew, with great pride, if that person is famous in a good way, regardless of how little Jewish blood is in the lineage. But will avoid like a plague calling him/her a Jew if the apple is rotten.
    I understand: we Armenians also zero-in on anyone who is famous in a good way and has a smidgen of Armenian blood.

    So if Kasparov is Jewish, how is it that Lenin is not ?

    , @KA
    1. 165 post is in reply to your 161.

    2 . Predominant Jewish role was well described by Churchill
    3 Predominant Jewish role was emphasized by Yuri Slezkine in THE JEWISH CENTURY

    4 Jewish role was well documented by Martin Gilbert in CHURCHILL and the JEWS
    5 Jewish role was repeatedly referred to in PARIS 1919

    6 In American politics and the ramifications of that roles are recorded in details in books ;ole
    Brandeis Frankfurter Connection, Israel in the minds of America, Passionate Attachment,The Pledge , and in the book by Benjamin Ginsberg in
    Fatal Embrace .

    7 Other writers like Lenni Brenner in epic books like 51 DOCUMENTS ZIONIST COLLABORATOR WITH THE NAZIS
    and ZIONISM IN THE AGE OF DICTATORS have exposed to the unsavory realities of 19 th and 20 the centuries
  160. geokat62 says:
    @This Is Our Home

    1. Chairman of the Council of Peoples’ Commissars (prime-minister) – Ulyanov (Lenin). Constituted himself Russian, but was matrilineal Jew (Blank).
     
    His maternal grandfather was Jewish but his maternal grandmother was not, so he was not a matrilineal Jew. Or indeed any kind of Jew - maybe a Jewdroon?!?

    And the rest of that list is cherry-picked from all different years to be as Jewish as possible.

    It would be like waiting a century and telling someone that all 20th Century leaders were women because in 1990:

    Thatcher, UK
    Merkel, Germany
    Clinton, US
    Gandhi, India

    Etc.

    In other words it is a lie. I always find that the side that makes its point through outright falsifications has nothing interesting to say. I mean, what is this lie supposed to achieve?

    People live in empty anomie now and the best critics can do is come up with fake lists from 1919?

    http://semiticcontroversies.blogspot.co.uk/2008/10/judeo-bolshevik-debacle.html?m=1

    In other words it is a lie.

    Here’s a direct quote from your source:

    The jewish overrepresentation of the high positions of power in the USSR/Bolshevik apparatus was indeed notable in its early years…

    Read More
    • Replies: @This Is Our Home
    That has nothing to do with my previous statement. What is wrong with you?
  161. Avery says:
    @This Is Our Home

    1. Chairman of the Council of Peoples’ Commissars (prime-minister) – Ulyanov (Lenin). Constituted himself Russian, but was matrilineal Jew (Blank).
     
    His maternal grandfather was Jewish but his maternal grandmother was not, so he was not a matrilineal Jew. Or indeed any kind of Jew - maybe a Jewdroon?!?

    And the rest of that list is cherry-picked from all different years to be as Jewish as possible.

    It would be like waiting a century and telling someone that all 20th Century leaders were women because in 1990:

    Thatcher, UK
    Merkel, Germany
    Clinton, US
    Gandhi, India

    Etc.

    In other words it is a lie. I always find that the side that makes its point through outright falsifications has nothing interesting to say. I mean, what is this lie supposed to achieve?

    People live in empty anomie now and the best critics can do is come up with fake lists from 1919?

    http://semiticcontroversies.blogspot.co.uk/2008/10/judeo-bolshevik-debacle.html?m=1

    [We mustn't forget that some of greatest murderers of modern times were Jewish]

    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3342999,00.html

    { In 1934, according to published statistics, 38.5 percent of those holding the most senior posts in the Soviet security apparatuses were of Jewish origin.}

    [Who is a Jew?]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_is_a_Jew%3F

    {Reform and Liberal Judaism do not accept the halakhic rules as binding, and accept a child of one Jewish parent, whether father or mother, as Jewish if the parents raise the child as a Jew and foster a Jewish identity in the child, noting that “in the Bible the line always followed the father, including the cases of Joseph and Moses, who married into non-Israelite priestly families.”[10] (However, according to the oral tradition of Orthodox Judaism, the spouses of both Joseph and Moses converted to Judaism prior to marrying them.) }

    {Karaite Judaism believes that Jewish identity can only be transmitted by patrilineal descent. They argue that only patrilineal descent can transmit Jewish identity on the grounds that all descent in the Torah went according to the male line, basing this idea “on the fact that, in the Bible, tribes are given male names and that biblical characters are always referenced by their fathers’ names.[15] However, a minority of modern Karaites believe that Jewish identity requires that both parents be Jewish, and not only the father.[16]}

    In other words, it is not a lie.
    You use one standard of who is a Jew, and somebody else uses another.

    Finally:

    Please refer to this site.

    http://www.jinfo.org/

    I don’t know the guy, but he appears to be a proud Jew.
    Good for him.
    He has a list of famous people who he considers Jewish.
    I didn’t go through all the names.
    But went to the Chess players list.

    http://www.jinfo.org/Chess_Players.html

    There I see Garry Kasparov. (..now you know why I went there…)
    Probably the greatest chess player of all time (…aside from the fact that his political views are irrational…)
    The guy who runs the site considers Kasparov Jewish, even though his mother was Armenian and father Jewish.
    (Kasparov took his mother’s last name).
    There are quite a few other famous people whom the site identifies as Jewish, with the footnote: ‘Jewish father, non-Jewish mother’.

    The point is, certain Jewish people will consider someone a Jew, with great pride, if that person is famous in a good way, regardless of how little Jewish blood is in the lineage. But will avoid like a plague calling him/her a Jew if the apple is rotten.
    I understand: we Armenians also zero-in on anyone who is famous in a good way and has a smidgen of Armenian blood.

    So if Kasparov is Jewish, how is it that Lenin is not ?

    Read More
    • Replies: @This Is Our Home
    That's all just meaningless internet gossip. You're crazy if you think you can form a logical argument from it. Lenin wasn't Jewish by any reasonable definition of the word and that's that. Even the stupid Nazis wouldn't have judged his background to make him so.

    Or as yourself put it and so get that you're not having a serious discussion:

    I understand: we Armenians also zero-in on anyone who is famous in a good way and has a smidgen of Armenian blood.

  162. KA says:

    FOX ‘s Hume and Carlson covered the Israeli angle in the events surrounding 911. Instead of being allowed to air all the parts the analytical segments of the remaining portion was shelved and pulled out of the schedule .
    Does it prove that Israel was involved in 911? One can debate that . One can debate the merits and strengths of the evidences presented by Brit Hume and Carl Cameron in those broadcasts that were allowed
    But one can surmise that a powerful force pulled the program off the air .

    The repeated attempts ( one can jog his memory and start from any point in the years gone by ) to suppress the information to prevent discussion,to blame the enquiries ,to accuse any attempt to unearth or elucidate,prvent any effort to bring the issue out in the open that involve Zionism or Israel in relation to the politics,war,finances,revolution,terrorism,money laundering sabotaging ang betrayal are simply and plainly self evident .

    History is buried . Years later these events (like Bolshevik and similar activities in Germany and Hungary) have to be filtered through the Antisemtism canard , ill preserved evidences,created and manufactured alternative facts or narratives and be viewed often uncritically through the false reality created by the inversion of the importance of the roles of the past players .

    I hear now a days from Christian scholars that ‘ Jesus was not killed by Jews but by Roaman”
    Sure ,Pilate sent his guard and executioners . But who agitated ? Who made the situation difficult for Rome? Who created the facts around Jesus? Who supplied the Romans with those excuses and the false data? Above all who promised the Rome a safe hegemony ? The answer is Sanhedrin, the priestly class joined in hip with the money changers.

    Read More
    • Replies: @annamaria
    "...the priestly class joined in hip with the money changers"
    The same witches' brew, eternally
  163. This Is Our Home [AKA "Robert Rediger"] says:
    @geokat62

    In other words it is a lie.
     
    Here's a direct quote from your source:

    The jewish overrepresentation of the high positions of power in the USSR/Bolshevik apparatus was indeed notable in its early years...
     

    That has nothing to do with my previous statement. What is wrong with you?

    Read More
    • Replies: @geokat62
    Excuse me if I misunderstood. But just so we are abundantly clear, are you in complete agreement with the following statement?:

    The jewish overrepresentation of the high positions of power in the USSR/Bolshevik apparatus was indeed notable in its early years…
     
  164. This Is Our Home [AKA "Robert Rediger"] says:
    @Avery
    [We mustn't forget that some of greatest murderers of modern times were Jewish]
    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3342999,00.html

    { In 1934, according to published statistics, 38.5 percent of those holding the most senior posts in the Soviet security apparatuses were of Jewish origin.}

    [Who is a Jew?]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_is_a_Jew%3F


    {Reform and Liberal Judaism do not accept the halakhic rules as binding, and accept a child of one Jewish parent, whether father or mother, as Jewish if the parents raise the child as a Jew and foster a Jewish identity in the child, noting that "in the Bible the line always followed the father, including the cases of Joseph and Moses, who married into non-Israelite priestly families."[10] (However, according to the oral tradition of Orthodox Judaism, the spouses of both Joseph and Moses converted to Judaism prior to marrying them.) }

    {Karaite Judaism believes that Jewish identity can only be transmitted by patrilineal descent. They argue that only patrilineal descent can transmit Jewish identity on the grounds that all descent in the Torah went according to the male line, basing this idea "on the fact that, in the Bible, tribes are given male names and that biblical characters are always referenced by their fathers' names.[15] However, a minority of modern Karaites believe that Jewish identity requires that both parents be Jewish, and not only the father.[16]}


    In other words, it is not a lie.
    You use one standard of who is a Jew, and somebody else uses another.

    Finally:

    Please refer to this site.
    http://www.jinfo.org/

    I don’t know the guy, but he appears to be a proud Jew.
    Good for him.
    He has a list of famous people who he considers Jewish.
    I didn’t go through all the names.
    But went to the Chess players list.
    http://www.jinfo.org/Chess_Players.html
    There I see Garry Kasparov. (..now you know why I went there...)
    Probably the greatest chess player of all time (…aside from the fact that his political views are irrational…)
    The guy who runs the site considers Kasparov Jewish, even though his mother was Armenian and father Jewish.
    (Kasparov took his mother's last name).
    There are quite a few other famous people whom the site identifies as Jewish, with the footnote: ‘Jewish father, non-Jewish mother’.

    The point is, certain Jewish people will consider someone a Jew, with great pride, if that person is famous in a good way, regardless of how little Jewish blood is in the lineage. But will avoid like a plague calling him/her a Jew if the apple is rotten.
    I understand: we Armenians also zero-in on anyone who is famous in a good way and has a smidgen of Armenian blood.

    So if Kasparov is Jewish, how is it that Lenin is not ?

    That’s all just meaningless internet gossip. You’re crazy if you think you can form a logical argument from it. Lenin wasn’t Jewish by any reasonable definition of the word and that’s that. Even the stupid Nazis wouldn’t have judged his background to make him so.

    Or as yourself put it and so get that you’re not having a serious discussion:

    I understand: we Armenians also zero-in on anyone who is famous in a good way and has a smidgen of Armenian blood.

    Read More
    • Replies: @KA
    http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2006/11/whitewashing-iraq-on-washington-post.html.

    Only Internet will expose the deceptive claims of Kaplan pertaining to the hidden nature of the blind monolithic zeal for the Iraq war . After war went south he went south.
    Now years after ,someone trying to locate the many stations these sorts of people occupied ,would be challenged to connect the dots because certain dots wpuld have been removed and taken out of circulation.
    This is why people miss the devotion to Israel as the motivating factors behind the drives of Perle,Wolfowitz,Kagan,Wirmser,Liberman , entities like OSP and PNAC war machines.Only their trajectory from late 1970 would establish the facts.

    If the Iraq war and 911 informations available were taken into account by the media and by the audiences would they still keep the silence of the graveyard on the motives of Sheldon and Singer and the calamitous roles the country are being forced to go down? Would they not ask why the same behind the scene war mongers are managing the advisory councils of GOP presidential candidates?

    These very people would wash their hands after their own narrow goals were realized. and that particular moments ( of refusing to admit their pivotal influence) in their careers would be celebrated by the future historians on pay roll of people like Sheldon or Singer as the cautionary contributions by the Zionism intellectuals against wars which according to that future historians , were unfprtunately ignored by America.
    We have seen already that on relation to Iraq war.

    This is the reason Zionist would not go near the connections of the revolutionary wars of 20 th century and the Jews.They would simply ignore and brand any evidence as nothing but expression of Antisemitism

    Another frequent excuses offered by the Jews pertaining to their roles as tax collectors in Central and Eastern Europe was that the Jews were barred from other vocations and the nobles abused the Jews as men who then were hated by the poor peasants and traders

    Who knows oneday we will be told that America did not want to create antiAmericanism and diverted the onus on Jews, the west used Israel for hegemony and control over Midfle east.
  165. geokat62 says:
    @This Is Our Home
    That has nothing to do with my previous statement. What is wrong with you?

    Excuse me if I misunderstood. But just so we are abundantly clear, are you in complete agreement with the following statement?:

    The jewish overrepresentation of the high positions of power in the USSR/Bolshevik apparatus was indeed notable in its early years…

    Read More
  166. KA says:
    @This Is Our Home

    1. Chairman of the Council of Peoples’ Commissars (prime-minister) – Ulyanov (Lenin). Constituted himself Russian, but was matrilineal Jew (Blank).
     
    His maternal grandfather was Jewish but his maternal grandmother was not, so he was not a matrilineal Jew. Or indeed any kind of Jew - maybe a Jewdroon?!?

    And the rest of that list is cherry-picked from all different years to be as Jewish as possible.

    It would be like waiting a century and telling someone that all 20th Century leaders were women because in 1990:

    Thatcher, UK
    Merkel, Germany
    Clinton, US
    Gandhi, India

    Etc.

    In other words it is a lie. I always find that the side that makes its point through outright falsifications has nothing interesting to say. I mean, what is this lie supposed to achieve?

    People live in empty anomie now and the best critics can do is come up with fake lists from 1919?

    http://semiticcontroversies.blogspot.co.uk/2008/10/judeo-bolshevik-debacle.html?m=1

    1. 165 post is in reply to your 161.

    2 . Predominant Jewish role was well described by Churchill
    3 Predominant Jewish role was emphasized by Yuri Slezkine in THE JEWISH CENTURY

    4 Jewish role was well documented by Martin Gilbert in CHURCHILL and the JEWS
    5 Jewish role was repeatedly referred to in PARIS 1919

    6 In American politics and the ramifications of that roles are recorded in details in books ;ole
    Brandeis Frankfurter Connection, Israel in the minds of America, Passionate Attachment,The Pledge , and in the book by Benjamin Ginsberg in
    Fatal Embrace .

    7 Other writers like Lenni Brenner in epic books like 51 DOCUMENTS ZIONIST COLLABORATOR WITH THE NAZIS
    and ZIONISM IN THE AGE OF DICTATORS have exposed to the unsavory realities of 19 th and 20 the centuries

    Read More
    • Replies: @This Is Our Home
    Your low class low literacy ramblings undermine the positions you try to support.
  167. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    I agree with Giralidi.

    But I have to say that in terms of censoring free speech on campus, the LGBT people – students, faculty, and administrators – have to be the worst offenders.

    They try to shut up anyone who voices opposition to same sex marriage or the homosexual agenda.

    Read More
  168. KA says:
    @This Is Our Home
    That's all just meaningless internet gossip. You're crazy if you think you can form a logical argument from it. Lenin wasn't Jewish by any reasonable definition of the word and that's that. Even the stupid Nazis wouldn't have judged his background to make him so.

    Or as yourself put it and so get that you're not having a serious discussion:

    I understand: we Armenians also zero-in on anyone who is famous in a good way and has a smidgen of Armenian blood.

    http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2006/11/whitewashing-iraq-on-washington-post.html.

    Only Internet will expose the deceptive claims of Kaplan pertaining to the hidden nature of the blind monolithic zeal for the Iraq war . After war went south he went south.
    Now years after ,someone trying to locate the many stations these sorts of people occupied ,would be challenged to connect the dots because certain dots wpuld have been removed and taken out of circulation.
    This is why people miss the devotion to Israel as the motivating factors behind the drives of Perle,Wolfowitz,Kagan,Wirmser,Liberman , entities like OSP and PNAC war machines.Only their trajectory from late 1970 would establish the facts.

    If the Iraq war and 911 informations available were taken into account by the media and by the audiences would they still keep the silence of the graveyard on the motives of Sheldon and Singer and the calamitous roles the country are being forced to go down? Would they not ask why the same behind the scene war mongers are managing the advisory councils of GOP presidential candidates?

    These very people would wash their hands after their own narrow goals were realized. and that particular moments ( of refusing to admit their pivotal influence) in their careers would be celebrated by the future historians on pay roll of people like Sheldon or Singer as the cautionary contributions by the Zionism intellectuals against wars which according to that future historians , were unfprtunately ignored by America.
    We have seen already that on relation to Iraq war.

    This is the reason Zionist would not go near the connections of the revolutionary wars of 20 th century and the Jews.They would simply ignore and brand any evidence as nothing but expression of Antisemitism

    Another frequent excuses offered by the Jews pertaining to their roles as tax collectors in Central and Eastern Europe was that the Jews were barred from other vocations and the nobles abused the Jews as men who then were hated by the poor peasants and traders

    Who knows oneday we will be told that America did not want to create antiAmericanism and diverted the onus on Jews, the west used Israel for hegemony and control over Midfle east.

    Read More
    • Replies: @geokat62

    Who knows oneday we will be told that America did not want to create antiAmericanism and diverted the onus on Jews, the west used Israel for hegemony and control over Midfle east.
     
    This is exactly the "thesis" being put forward by Noam Chomsky. Fortunately, two courageous professors (Mearsheimer and Walt) put their careers on the line by publishing a book that documents the nefarious machinations of the Lobby, The Israel Lobby and US Foreign Policy. Try as their critics might, they could not touch their rock solid thesis that the Looby has had a negative effect on US interests.
  169. geokat62 says:
    @KA
    http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2006/11/whitewashing-iraq-on-washington-post.html.

    Only Internet will expose the deceptive claims of Kaplan pertaining to the hidden nature of the blind monolithic zeal for the Iraq war . After war went south he went south.
    Now years after ,someone trying to locate the many stations these sorts of people occupied ,would be challenged to connect the dots because certain dots wpuld have been removed and taken out of circulation.
    This is why people miss the devotion to Israel as the motivating factors behind the drives of Perle,Wolfowitz,Kagan,Wirmser,Liberman , entities like OSP and PNAC war machines.Only their trajectory from late 1970 would establish the facts.

    If the Iraq war and 911 informations available were taken into account by the media and by the audiences would they still keep the silence of the graveyard on the motives of Sheldon and Singer and the calamitous roles the country are being forced to go down? Would they not ask why the same behind the scene war mongers are managing the advisory councils of GOP presidential candidates?

    These very people would wash their hands after their own narrow goals were realized. and that particular moments ( of refusing to admit their pivotal influence) in their careers would be celebrated by the future historians on pay roll of people like Sheldon or Singer as the cautionary contributions by the Zionism intellectuals against wars which according to that future historians , were unfprtunately ignored by America.
    We have seen already that on relation to Iraq war.

    This is the reason Zionist would not go near the connections of the revolutionary wars of 20 th century and the Jews.They would simply ignore and brand any evidence as nothing but expression of Antisemitism

    Another frequent excuses offered by the Jews pertaining to their roles as tax collectors in Central and Eastern Europe was that the Jews were barred from other vocations and the nobles abused the Jews as men who then were hated by the poor peasants and traders

    Who knows oneday we will be told that America did not want to create antiAmericanism and diverted the onus on Jews, the west used Israel for hegemony and control over Midfle east.

    Who knows oneday we will be told that America did not want to create antiAmericanism and diverted the onus on Jews, the west used Israel for hegemony and control over Midfle east.

    This is exactly the “thesis” being put forward by Noam Chomsky. Fortunately, two courageous professors (Mearsheimer and Walt) put their careers on the line by publishing a book that documents the nefarious machinations of the Lobby, The Israel Lobby and US Foreign Policy. Try as their critics might, they could not touch their rock solid thesis that the Looby has had a negative effect on US interests.

    Read More
  170. This Is Our Home [AKA "Robert Rediger"] says:
    @KA
    1. 165 post is in reply to your 161.

    2 . Predominant Jewish role was well described by Churchill
    3 Predominant Jewish role was emphasized by Yuri Slezkine in THE JEWISH CENTURY

    4 Jewish role was well documented by Martin Gilbert in CHURCHILL and the JEWS
    5 Jewish role was repeatedly referred to in PARIS 1919

    6 In American politics and the ramifications of that roles are recorded in details in books ;ole
    Brandeis Frankfurter Connection, Israel in the minds of America, Passionate Attachment,The Pledge , and in the book by Benjamin Ginsberg in
    Fatal Embrace .

    7 Other writers like Lenni Brenner in epic books like 51 DOCUMENTS ZIONIST COLLABORATOR WITH THE NAZIS
    and ZIONISM IN THE AGE OF DICTATORS have exposed to the unsavory realities of 19 th and 20 the centuries

    Your low class low literacy ramblings undermine the positions you try to support.

    Read More
  171. A very good interview with Scott Horton about this important article (as always). And a very, very important and timely topic.

    This issue needs to be addressed in a major way by many, many people. Look what recently happened in France! Read this article by Glenn Greenwald: Anti-Israel Activism Criminalized in the Land of Charlie Hebdo and “Free Speech” at: https://theintercept.com/greenwald/ (must read).

    As bad and controversial as this issue already seems to some—it also seems more of a conspiracy then most realize. Read this article by two American Jews: ‘New anti-Semitism’ on college campuses is largely blowback against orchestrated Israel advocacy – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/03/blowback-orchestrated-advocacy#sthash.qfAX5Lft.dpuf (must read)

    One Adam Milstein is involved in this American issue. Check him out and how heavily he is related to pro-Israeli politics. Read, for example, how many Jewish advocacy organizations are supported via StandWithUs (see Wikipedia).

    There is a whole army of pro-Israeli Jews taking on the First Amendment on American campuses—including several Hasbara fellowship and campus Hillel support. This is not some small operation that just happened. There is a massive effort to change our culture and freedom going on.

    Also there are a handful of Jewish people serving on the Regents committee—two who are obviously committed to destroyed freedom of speech (and Janet Napolitano is also likely willing to play). Richard Blum should resign immediately! And the idea Jewish student regent appointment was rigged surely insinuates something ominous—he should also resign! Why do Californians stand for this type of heavy manipulation—there had to be a reason for such outside election fraud?

    Also read this very important case study about a similar case that happened earlier this year: Read Brooklyn College’s academic freedom increasingly threatened over Israel event (also by Glenn Greenwald) at: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/feb/02/brooklyn-college-bds-alan-dershowitz

    They want to control our society like the way AIPAC controls our Congress.

    I hope more people donate to your efforts and support your website and related websites like ScottHorton.Org, Council for the National Interest, AntiWar.Com

    Read More
    • Replies: @geokat62

    They want to control our society like the way AIPAC controls our Congress.
     
    Welcome aboard, Sara's Sister. Based on your comment, Sarah should be proud of you.
  172. @Svigor

    Because you DO realize that he was Jewish, don’t ya Art? Not a Zionist, a Jew.
     
    Funny how Jews only claim him in this sort of context. Then they go back to bashing and disavowing him and the religion centered around him.

    Yep and Catholics brag openly about how instrumental they are to the anti-2nd-Amendment movement also. Does that mean that the Catholic current President of the NRA, Wayne LaPierre, is lying also because some people in his religion are against guns? What’s your point?
     
    Catholicism is a real religion, not an ethnic-tribal one like Judaism, so I never find such comparisons particularly apt. As for who's more important to the anti-2nd-Amendment movement, I wouldn't know; leaving aside the numbers, maybe Jews aren't as smart as everyone thinks, and thus they aren't all that good at what they do.

    As for whether or not "Catholics do it too" - it seems like a weak defense for Jewish prominence in anti-2nd-Amendment activism.

    Idiotic psychopanths think ”constant repetition” is a key to persuade.

    Read More
  173. geokat62 says:
    @Sara's Sister
    A very good interview with Scott Horton about this important article (as always). And a very, very important and timely topic.

    This issue needs to be addressed in a major way by many, many people. Look what recently happened in France! Read this article by Glenn Greenwald: Anti-Israel Activism Criminalized in the Land of Charlie Hebdo and “Free Speech” at: https://theintercept.com/greenwald/ (must read).

    As bad and controversial as this issue already seems to some—it also seems more of a conspiracy then most realize. Read this article by two American Jews: ‘New anti-Semitism’ on college campuses is largely blowback against orchestrated Israel advocacy - See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/03/blowback-orchestrated-advocacy#sthash.qfAX5Lft.dpuf (must read)

    One Adam Milstein is involved in this American issue. Check him out and how heavily he is related to pro-Israeli politics. Read, for example, how many Jewish advocacy organizations are supported via StandWithUs (see Wikipedia).

    There is a whole army of pro-Israeli Jews taking on the First Amendment on American campuses—including several Hasbara fellowship and campus Hillel support. This is not some small operation that just happened. There is a massive effort to change our culture and freedom going on.

    Also there are a handful of Jewish people serving on the Regents committee—two who are obviously committed to destroyed freedom of speech (and Janet Napolitano is also likely willing to play). Richard Blum should resign immediately! And the idea Jewish student regent appointment was rigged surely insinuates something ominous—he should also resign! Why do Californians stand for this type of heavy manipulation—there had to be a reason for such outside election fraud?

    Also read this very important case study about a similar case that happened earlier this year: Read Brooklyn College's academic freedom increasingly threatened over Israel event (also by Glenn Greenwald) at: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/feb/02/brooklyn-college-bds-alan-dershowitz

    They want to control our society like the way AIPAC controls our Congress.

    I hope more people donate to your efforts and support your website and related websites like ScottHorton.Org, Council for the National Interest, AntiWar.Com

    They want to control our society like the way AIPAC controls our Congress.

    Welcome aboard, Sara’s Sister. Based on your comment, Sarah should be proud of you.

    Read More
  174. KA says:
    @This Is Our Home
    Your low class low literacy ramblings undermine the positions you try to support.

    Shut up and go home , you loser

    Read More
  175. See also this story: “Funds to UCLA student political party came from outside sources, leaked emails show” at the Daily Californian : http://www.dailycal.org/2014/07/03/funds-ucla-student-political-party-came-outside-donors-leaked-emails-show/

    This needs to be exposed and dealt with–clearly corruption.

    Read More
    • Replies: @KA
    Another first amendment issue, a new victim

    http://russia-insider.com/en/media-criticism/mccains-minions-full-fury-over-rts-success/ri10869

    And gagging of the whistleblower but by a foreign government agent

    "A professor of physics at Caltech says that an Israeli scientist at the school shared secrets from NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory, or JPL, with Israeli government rocket scientists in violation of federal law, but that when she reported the matter to Caltech authorities, she was punished for the disclosure. - See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/?s=Israeli+espionage.+California#sthash.mi949qzB.dpuf"
  176. KA says:

    Bernard Henry Levy has penned an articles in Huffington Post -

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bernardhenri-levy/the-new-moscowteers_b_8410790.html?utm_hp_ref=yahoo&ir=Yahoo

    calling those who support Putin’s action over Syria as a new threat , a fifth column inside western countries !

    Its good to see the lectures and pushback he is getting in the comment section.

    But the philosopher of intentional absurdities is planning something big or at least trying . Agreeing with Putin is treason – that’s what he is aiming at!

    He smoothly segues into the claptrap of Soviet revanchism or recidivism- ” And they are the great many who simply ignore what motivates Putin’s armed diplomacy (and not just in Syria): the desire to exact revenge on those who, in his eyes, were responsible for the Soviet Union’s downfall. Putin famously declared that the Soviet collapse was the “biggest geopolitical catastrophe of the twentieth century,” and he has never stopped blaming it on the United States, the Catholic Church (and its Polish pope), and Europe.”
    That is his explanation . Haven’t we heard that before ?
    Arab Resistance to Zionism is nothing but attempt to create 7 th century Middle East or world dominating Caliphate ! His ilk sold that lies .
    Should west buy his repackaged logic again?

    Read More
    • Replies: @annamaria
    Bernard-Henri Lévy, this faux philosopher because both truth and wisdom are certainly not his love, shows again and again that he is not able to think clearly.
    "I believe that America should uphold its creed and support democratically elected governments and the oppressed,” he solemnly said, strangely not willing to acknowledge that Washington has been propping up dictators from the Shah to Pinochet, Mubarak, Suharto, Ceaușescu, Marcos all the way to recently with Hernandez under Hillary Clinton at State in Honduras. He has said in the past that criticizing the U.S. is being anti-Semitic. But the UN, which this week released a probe on last summer Israeli bombing of Gaza finding that Israel bombed UN facilities sheltering only civilians even after their GPS coordinates had been provided to the Israeli forces, are fair game."
    http://observer.com/2015/05/why-does-everyone-hate-bernard-henri-levy/
  177. Art says:
    @bunga
    Free Speech in Western Europe-France

    The post-Charlie Hebdo “free speech” march in Paris was a fraud for multiple reasons, as I wrote at the time. It was led by dozens of world leaders, many of whom imprison or even kill people for expressing prohibited views. It was cheered by many Westerners who feign upset only when free speech abridgments are perpetrated by Muslims, but not — as is far more common — by their own governments against Muslims.

    Worst of all, the march took place in a country that is one of the most hostile to free speech rights in the West, as France quickly demonstrated in the days after the march by rounding up and prosecuting Muslims and other anti-Israel activists for the political views they expressed. A great, best-selling book by French philosopher Emmanuel Todd released this year argues that these “free speech” marches were a “sham,” driven by many political sentiments — nativism, nationalism, anti-Muslim bigotry — that had nothing to do with free speech.

    The absurdity of France’s celebrating itself for free expression was vividly highlighted by this week’s decision from that nation’s highest court, one that is a direct assault on basic free speech rights. The French high court upheld the criminal conviction of 12 political activists for the “crime” of advocating sanctions and a boycott against Israel as a means of ending the decades-long military occupation of Palestine. What did these French criminals do? This: The individuals arrived at the supermarket wearing shirts emblazoned with the words: “Long live Palestine, boycott Israel.” They also handed out fliers that said that “buying Israeli products means legitimizing crimes in Gaza.”

    Because BDS is inherently “discriminatory,” said the court, it is a crime to advocate it.


    https://theintercept.com/2015/10/27/criminalization-of-anti-israel-activism-escalates-this-time-in-the-land-of-the-charlie-hebdo-free-speech-march/

    “Because BDS is inherently “discriminatory,” said the court, it is a crime to advocate it.”

    The Jews are shutting down our freedoms one by one. The freedom of non-violent action – the freedom to purchase what is in your best interests are being taken away by the Jews. This is so so wrong – how twisted – one cannot speak out with non-violent words or act in a non-violent manner against evil. The Western peoples mindset for favoring right over wrong and a peaceful world is now against the law.

    The logical conclusion is that the more evil one is – and the more people that speak out about it – the more “discriminatory” it is.

    So be evil and the law will protect you from censure. How crazy is this that a related identity group of people cannot be censured by society?

    The evil Jew is turning Western culture upside down.

    Read More
  178. geokat62 says:
    @Philip Giraldi
    Geokat - I have been advised that the comment edit function is working normally!

    Phil, sorry for troubling you again, but I just noticed that another commenter (S2C in another thread, Germany Against Itself) just indicated that “the edit function is not working.” I’ve tried using other devices and I even had a colleague of mine use their device and in all cases, the edit function was disabled. Are the techies sure this issue isn’t more widespread?

    In my case, every one of my comments immediately says it is “awaiting moderation” as soon as I click the “Publish Comment” button… affording me no opportunity to edit all my typos.

    Perhaps other commenters could indicate if they are experiencing the same issue

    Read More
    • Replies: @Philip Giraldi
    Thanks geo - I will pass your message on to the technical department!
  179. This Is Our Home [AKA "Robert Rediger"] says:
    @KA
    Shut up and go home , you loser

    Says the Arab squatting in the West.

    Read More
    • Replies: @KA
    Didn't I ask you to leave ?
    , @annamaria
    You mean the "squatting Arabs" have came to Europe in huge numbers for no reason? Have you noticed that the EU has been facing some moral problems because of the previous history of the EU involvement in some vassalage activities in the Middle East? Here is an abbreviation to start with in order to learn about why the Arabs of all ages have been abandoning their homes in the MiddleEast: PNAC. Also, a lot can be understood by getting acquainted with the Yinon Plan: http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/the-jewish-plan-for-the-middle-east-and-beyond.html.
    A summary of the plan: "Greater Israel” requires the breaking up of the existing Arab states into small states."
  180. @geokat62
    Phil, sorry for troubling you again, but I just noticed that another commenter (S2C in another thread, Germany Against Itself) just indicated that "the edit function is not working." I've tried using other devices and I even had a colleague of mine use their device and in all cases, the edit function was disabled. Are the techies sure this issue isn't more widespread?

    In my case, every one of my comments immediately says it is "awaiting moderation" as soon as I click the "Publish Comment" button... affording me no opportunity to edit all my typos.

    Perhaps other commenters could indicate if they are experiencing the same issue

    Thanks geo – I will pass your message on to the technical department!

    Read More
    • Replies: @geokat62
    Hi, Phil. Any news? I noticed that another commenter, just a few moments ago, indicated that the edit function was still disabled. So it appears that this is impacting more than just me.

    Thanks.
  181. KA says:
    @This Is Our Home
    Says the Arab squatting in the West.

    Didn’t I ask you to leave ?

    Read More
  182. KA says:
    @Sara's Sister
    See also this story: "Funds to UCLA student political party came from outside sources, leaked emails show" at the Daily Californian : http://www.dailycal.org/2014/07/03/funds-ucla-student-political-party-came-outside-donors-leaked-emails-show/

    This needs to be exposed and dealt with--clearly corruption.

    Another first amendment issue, a new victim

    http://russia-insider.com/en/media-criticism/mccains-minions-full-fury-over-rts-success/ri10869

    And gagging of the whistleblower but by a foreign government agent

    “A professor of physics at Caltech says that an Israeli scientist at the school shared secrets from NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory, or JPL, with Israeli government rocket scientists in violation of federal law, but that when she reported the matter to Caltech authorities, she was punished for the disclosure. – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/?s=Israeli+espionage.+California#sthash.mi949qzB.dpuf”

    Read More
  183. One more tactic in Israel’s assault on the First Amendment:

    Behind the smokescreen* of Bibi’s faux holocaustianism denial is this important Israeli action to further immiserate Palestinians:

    In this light, many others of his decisions now look different, including this week’s decision to take measures to cancel the “inhabitant” status of tens of thousands of Arab Jerusalemites. When East Jerusalem was annexed by Israel in 1967, the inhabitants were not granted Israeli citizenship, only reduced resident’s rights, which deny them the right to vote for the Knesset. They were graciously allowed to apply for citizenship individually, but, of course, almost nobody did, since this would mean recognition of the annexation.

    Now I am afraid. If indeed we are governed by a man with mental problems – just where is he leading us?

    Bet you didn’t hear this on the Sunday talkies, or in any C Span broadcast.

    * holocaustianism denial is not just a smokescreen, it is a concerted strategy to shift opprobrium and culpability from Germans to Palestinians.
    In the current iteration, the Israel first network in the USA is participating by producing books that support Bibi’s thesis. For example, Jeffrey Herf, professor at University of Maryland (a public, i.e. taxpayer-supported university) has published “Nazi Propaganda for the Arab World “, shifting the (equally dubious) claim of his earlier work, “The Jewish Enemy: Nazi Propaganda during World War II and the Holocaust.”

    Several years earlier Jewish lobbyists swarmed the US Congress to pass legislation that would include reparations to Jews who left Arab lands and migrated to Palestine [Arab land!] in any settlement to Palestinians.

    The gimmee underlying Bibi’s holocaustianism denial seeks to broaden that claim. Under the title, Zionist Congress resolution ‘a big step forward’ the Jewish Refugees from Arab Countries blog reported:

    The 37th World Zionist Congress, held in Jerusalem on 20 – 22 October 2015, has passed a resolution calling for all countries to recognise human rights violations against Jewish refugees from Arab lands and their right to compensation for seized property.

    The resolution was proposed by Justice for Jews from Arab Countries (JJAC) President Elie Abadi through the Likud International, supported by MK Oron Hazan, Chairman of the Knesset Lobby for the Restitution of Jewish Refugees Property.

    It’s the money, stupid.

    Read More
  184. bunga says:

    One man, Yacov Yardeny from New York City, wrote:

    she will be the first one to stab American’s back when she get a chance…The writer is an Arab, as an Arab should not to be trusted they have proven througout history not to be trusted.

    Writing about the occupation and hoping if Palestinians can ever live like normal people, Elmusa wasn’t asking too much. She just wants Americans to look at Palestinians and know “that all they want are the same basic things Americans demand for themselves—​like equal protection under the law. Like the ability to not only survive, but to really live.”

    Another commenter wrote

    most mmuslims in the middle east are blood gushing muderers ,thursty killers who wont kill from far ,just holding head with left hand and slowly slice it off with right hand with out even saying “ouch” after or some will walk near yah and plunge a knife in u with out knowing if anything happened

    http://mondoweiss.net/2015/11/karmah-elmusa-magazine

    Elie Magazine published an article by a Palestinian woman.

    and the attack dogs came out of the closet, they hide under ist Amendment when it suits them . Dont call it hate speech or incitement .It is freedom to say whatevet the zionsit wwants to say

    Read More
  185. part of the antidote to Israel’s assault on First Amendment:

    Night in Gaza

    with

    Dr. Mads Gilbert
    Medical Director, Clinic of Emergency Medicine
    University of North Norway

    Monday, 9 November 2015
    1:00 – 2:00 p.m.
    The Palestine Center

    On July 7, 2014, Israel launched a series of aerial attacks on Gaza, followed by the ground phase of the operation ten days later. Mads Gilbert arrived in Gaza on July 13th, and worked day and night for the next two weeks at al-Shifa Hospital, dealing with casualties, repairing serious injuries, and trying to save lives. While helping the wounded, Dr. Gilbert kept a camera in the pocket of his scrubs, enabling him to document some of the human cost paid by the Palestinian people for enduring the Israeli invasion. Night in Gaza is the photo story you will not see on television or in the newspapers. It is also a tribute to the courage, endurance, and almost inconceivably strong spirit of Palestinian health workers and volunteers, a spirit replicated throughout the severely tested society of Gaza.

    Mads Gilbert is a medical doctor at the University Hospital of North Norway. Since 1981, he has been going regularly to Palestine as a teacher and emergency care doctor in Palestinian hospitals on behalf of UNWRA, the UN aid agency to Palestinian refugees. Over the last few years he has worked in Gaza during successive waves of Israeli attacks on the densely populated area under siege. He is co-author (with Erik Fosse) of Eyes in Gaza, which was hailed by the influential Norwegian newspaper Klassekampen as the “Best Book of 2009.”

    video streaming live at this site http://thejerusalemfund.org/ht/d/sp/i/13537/pid/13537

    Read More
  186. annamaria says:
    @KA
    FOX 's Hume and Carlson covered the Israeli angle in the events surrounding 911. Instead of being allowed to air all the parts the analytical segments of the remaining portion was shelved and pulled out of the schedule .
    Does it prove that Israel was involved in 911? One can debate that . One can debate the merits and strengths of the evidences presented by Brit Hume and Carl Cameron in those broadcasts that were allowed
    But one can surmise that a powerful force pulled the program off the air .

    The repeated attempts ( one can jog his memory and start from any point in the years gone by ) to suppress the information to prevent discussion,to blame the enquiries ,to accuse any attempt to unearth or elucidate,prvent any effort to bring the issue out in the open that involve Zionism or Israel in relation to the politics,war,finances,revolution,terrorism,money laundering sabotaging ang betrayal are simply and plainly self evident .

    History is buried . Years later these events (like Bolshevik and similar activities in Germany and Hungary) have to be filtered through the Antisemtism canard , ill preserved evidences,created and manufactured alternative facts or narratives and be viewed often uncritically through the false reality created by the inversion of the importance of the roles of the past players .

    I hear now a days from Christian scholars that ' Jesus was not killed by Jews but by Roaman"
    Sure ,Pilate sent his guard and executioners . But who agitated ? Who made the situation difficult for Rome? Who created the facts around Jesus? Who supplied the Romans with those excuses and the false data? Above all who promised the Rome a safe hegemony ? The answer is Sanhedrin, the priestly class joined in hip with the money changers.

    “…the priestly class joined in hip with the money changers”
    The same witches’ brew, eternally

    Read More
  187. annamaria says:
    @KA
    Bernard Henry Levy has penned an articles in Huffington Post -
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bernardhenri-levy/the-new-moscowteers_b_8410790.html?utm_hp_ref=yahoo&ir=Yahoo

    calling those who support Putin's action over Syria as a new threat , a fifth column inside western countries !

    Its good to see the lectures and pushback he is getting in the comment section.

    But the philosopher of intentional absurdities is planning something big or at least trying . Agreeing with Putin is treason - that's what he is aiming at!

    He smoothly segues into the claptrap of Soviet revanchism or recidivism- " And they are the great many who simply ignore what motivates Putin's armed diplomacy (and not just in Syria): the desire to exact revenge on those who, in his eyes, were responsible for the Soviet Union's downfall. Putin famously declared that the Soviet collapse was the "biggest geopolitical catastrophe of the twentieth century," and he has never stopped blaming it on the United States, the Catholic Church (and its Polish pope), and Europe."
    That is his explanation . Haven't we heard that before ?
    Arab Resistance to Zionism is nothing but attempt to create 7 th century Middle East or world dominating Caliphate ! His ilk sold that lies .
    Should west buy his repackaged logic again?

    Bernard-Henri Lévy, this faux philosopher because both truth and wisdom are certainly not his love, shows again and again that he is not able to think clearly.
    “I believe that America should uphold its creed and support democratically elected governments and the oppressed,” he solemnly said, strangely not willing to acknowledge that Washington has been propping up dictators from the Shah to Pinochet, Mubarak, Suharto, Ceaușescu, Marcos all the way to recently with Hernandez under Hillary Clinton at State in Honduras. He has said in the past that criticizing the U.S. is being anti-Semitic. But the UN, which this week released a probe on last summer Israeli bombing of Gaza finding that Israel bombed UN facilities sheltering only civilians even after their GPS coordinates had been provided to the Israeli forces, are fair game.”

    http://observer.com/2015/05/why-does-everyone-hate-bernard-henri-levy/

    Read More
  188. This Is Our Home [AKA "Robert Rediger"] says:
    @KA
    Didn't I ask you to leave ?

    Lol you asked me to leave. Why don’t you go home.

    Read More
    • Replies: @bunga
    may be because you don't have a home or more precisely you probably never call any place home.
  189. annamaria says:
    @This Is Our Home
    Says the Arab squatting in the West.

    You mean the “squatting Arabs” have came to Europe in huge numbers for no reason? Have you noticed that the EU has been facing some moral problems because of the previous history of the EU involvement in some vassalage activities in the Middle East? Here is an abbreviation to start with in order to learn about why the Arabs of all ages have been abandoning their homes in the MiddleEast: PNAC. Also, a lot can be understood by getting acquainted with the Yinon Plan: http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/the-jewish-plan-for-the-middle-east-and-beyond.html.
    A summary of the plan: “Greater Israel” requires the breaking up of the existing Arab states into small states.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @This Is Our Home
    Another Arab trying to justify why they are squatting in a civilization they could never hope to equal.
  190. bunga says:
    @This Is Our Home
    Lol you asked me to leave. Why don't you go home.

    may be because you don’t have a home or more precisely you probably never call any place home.

    Read More
    • Replies: @This Is Our Home
    I have a home. Mine is in Europe. You have a home. Yours is in Arabia, so go back there and good riddance.
  191. This Is Our Home [AKA "Robert Rediger"] says:
    @annamaria
    You mean the "squatting Arabs" have came to Europe in huge numbers for no reason? Have you noticed that the EU has been facing some moral problems because of the previous history of the EU involvement in some vassalage activities in the Middle East? Here is an abbreviation to start with in order to learn about why the Arabs of all ages have been abandoning their homes in the MiddleEast: PNAC. Also, a lot can be understood by getting acquainted with the Yinon Plan: http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/the-jewish-plan-for-the-middle-east-and-beyond.html.
    A summary of the plan: "Greater Israel” requires the breaking up of the existing Arab states into small states."

    Another Arab trying to justify why they are squatting in a civilization they could never hope to equal.

    Read More
    • Replies: @annamaria
    "...they are squatting in a civilization they could never hope to equal."

    In case you are not aware, the foundations of geometry, math, architecture, and optics were laid down by the Arabs, see Pythagoras (Greek, 6th century BC) who studied during his formative years in Egypt and Al Hazen that did his studies long before Newton. And what have your people given to humanity - the monotheism and "never again" that happened to be ethnicity-specific? Just kidding. There have been great Jewish humanists that would look with horror at the results of the grandiose designs conceived by the US neocons/Zionists. The latter have been predominantly a progeny of some poorly educated Jewish emigres from provincial shtetls in Eastern Europe. Hence the apparent vulgarity and obnoxiousness of the very visible parvenues of neocon/Zionist' persuasion.
    The squatters from Middle East are the victims of the Yinon plan and Kissinger/Wolfowitz Doctrine, a precursor to the "full spectrum dominance" doctrine. If the US and their European vassals had stayed away from invading Middle East, there would be no thousands and thousands of desperate families crossing the Med. Moreover, it would be much easier for European Union to control the current massive economic migration from sub-Saharan Africa.
  192. This Is Our Home [AKA "Robert Rediger"] says:
    @bunga
    may be because you don't have a home or more precisely you probably never call any place home.

    I have a home. Mine is in Europe. You have a home. Yours is in Arabia, so go back there and good riddance.

    Read More
    • Replies: @annamaria
    Gen Wesley Clark Reveals US Plan To Invade Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Lybia, Somalia, Sudan, And Iran: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LTdx1nPu3k

    "The balkanization of the "Greater Middle East" and the "New Order" that that will ensue, are they not the consequence of the Yinon/Ya’alon plans...?" From the "Yinon Plan" to the "Ya’alon Strategy:" http://www.voltairenet.org/article186019.html
  193. annamaria says:
    @This Is Our Home
    Another Arab trying to justify why they are squatting in a civilization they could never hope to equal.

    “…they are squatting in a civilization they could never hope to equal.”

    In case you are not aware, the foundations of geometry, math, architecture, and optics were laid down by the Arabs, see Pythagoras (Greek, 6th century BC) who studied during his formative years in Egypt and Al Hazen that did his studies long before Newton. And what have your people given to humanity – the monotheism and “never again” that happened to be ethnicity-specific? Just kidding. There have been great Jewish humanists that would look with horror at the results of the grandiose designs conceived by the US neocons/Zionists. The latter have been predominantly a progeny of some poorly educated Jewish emigres from provincial shtetls in Eastern Europe. Hence the apparent vulgarity and obnoxiousness of the very visible parvenues of neocon/Zionist’ persuasion.
    The squatters from Middle East are the victims of the Yinon plan and Kissinger/Wolfowitz Doctrine, a precursor to the “full spectrum dominance” doctrine. If the US and their European vassals had stayed away from invading Middle East, there would be no thousands and thousands of desperate families crossing the Med. Moreover, it would be much easier for European Union to control the current massive economic migration from sub-Saharan Africa.

    Read More
    • Replies: @geokat62

    In case you are not aware, the foundations of geometry, math, architecture, and optics were laid down by the Arabs, see Pythagoras (Greek, 6th century BC) who studied during his formative years in Egypt and Al Hazen that did his studies long before Newton.
     
    Annamarina, not sure if it's fair to attribute the foundations of these fields to the Arabs.

    Pythagoras did travel to Egypt and surrounding environs, which had the following influences on him:

    The Egyptians are said to have taught him geometry, the Phoenicians arithmetic, the Chaldeans astronomy, the Magians the principles of religion and practical maxims for the conduct of life.
     
    While Al Hazen made significant contributions to these fields, he arrived on the scene ~ 1,500 yrs later, well after the foundations had already been laid.
    , @This Is Our Home

    And what have your people given to humanity
     
    Common law, the theories of gravity and evolution, medicine that actually works, industry, all popular sports, the novel, non-Malthusian society, the English language, the web, Economics, and so many more things I cannot possibly name them all.

    So please leave.
  194. annamaria says:
    @This Is Our Home
    I have a home. Mine is in Europe. You have a home. Yours is in Arabia, so go back there and good riddance.

    Gen Wesley Clark Reveals US Plan To Invade Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Lybia, Somalia, Sudan, And Iran: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LTdx1nPu3k

    “The balkanization of the “Greater Middle East” and the “New Order” that that will ensue, are they not the consequence of the Yinon/Ya’alon plans…?” From the “Yinon Plan” to the “Ya’alon Strategy:” http://www.voltairenet.org/article186019.html

    Read More
  195. geokat62 says:
    @annamaria
    "...they are squatting in a civilization they could never hope to equal."

    In case you are not aware, the foundations of geometry, math, architecture, and optics were laid down by the Arabs, see Pythagoras (Greek, 6th century BC) who studied during his formative years in Egypt and Al Hazen that did his studies long before Newton. And what have your people given to humanity - the monotheism and "never again" that happened to be ethnicity-specific? Just kidding. There have been great Jewish humanists that would look with horror at the results of the grandiose designs conceived by the US neocons/Zionists. The latter have been predominantly a progeny of some poorly educated Jewish emigres from provincial shtetls in Eastern Europe. Hence the apparent vulgarity and obnoxiousness of the very visible parvenues of neocon/Zionist' persuasion.
    The squatters from Middle East are the victims of the Yinon plan and Kissinger/Wolfowitz Doctrine, a precursor to the "full spectrum dominance" doctrine. If the US and their European vassals had stayed away from invading Middle East, there would be no thousands and thousands of desperate families crossing the Med. Moreover, it would be much easier for European Union to control the current massive economic migration from sub-Saharan Africa.

    In case you are not aware, the foundations of geometry, math, architecture, and optics were laid down by the Arabs, see Pythagoras (Greek, 6th century BC) who studied during his formative years in Egypt and Al Hazen that did his studies long before Newton.

    Annamarina, not sure if it’s fair to attribute the foundations of these fields to the Arabs.

    Pythagoras did travel to Egypt and surrounding environs, which had the following influences on him:

    The Egyptians are said to have taught him geometry, the Phoenicians arithmetic, the Chaldeans astronomy, the Magians the principles of religion and practical maxims for the conduct of life.

    While Al Hazen made significant contributions to these fields, he arrived on the scene ~ 1,500 yrs later, well after the foundations had already been laid.

    Read More
    • Replies: @annamaria
    You are right – Egyptians are not Arabs. (I lumped the North Africans and Middle Eastern people together for brevity of response, since "The Middle East and North Africa are two regions that are often grouped together because they have many things in common. Islam is the dominant religion of the area and almost everyone speaks Arabic"). As for Al Hazen, his innovative development in optics in 1000 did predate the studies in the same field by Newton.
  196. This Is Our Home [AKA "Robert Rediger"] says:
    @annamaria
    "...they are squatting in a civilization they could never hope to equal."

    In case you are not aware, the foundations of geometry, math, architecture, and optics were laid down by the Arabs, see Pythagoras (Greek, 6th century BC) who studied during his formative years in Egypt and Al Hazen that did his studies long before Newton. And what have your people given to humanity - the monotheism and "never again" that happened to be ethnicity-specific? Just kidding. There have been great Jewish humanists that would look with horror at the results of the grandiose designs conceived by the US neocons/Zionists. The latter have been predominantly a progeny of some poorly educated Jewish emigres from provincial shtetls in Eastern Europe. Hence the apparent vulgarity and obnoxiousness of the very visible parvenues of neocon/Zionist' persuasion.
    The squatters from Middle East are the victims of the Yinon plan and Kissinger/Wolfowitz Doctrine, a precursor to the "full spectrum dominance" doctrine. If the US and their European vassals had stayed away from invading Middle East, there would be no thousands and thousands of desperate families crossing the Med. Moreover, it would be much easier for European Union to control the current massive economic migration from sub-Saharan Africa.

    And what have your people given to humanity

    Common law, the theories of gravity and evolution, medicine that actually works, industry, all popular sports, the novel, non-Malthusian society, the English language, the web, Economics, and so many more things I cannot possibly name them all.

    So please leave.

    Read More
    • Replies: @KA
    Most Important, it gave MAGNA CARTA that forced the king to get rid of the Jewish people who were accused of sucking the blood out of the economy.
  197. annamaria says:

    The mentioned achievements could not belong to the barbarians that have destroyed the lives and livelihood of the modern-day Arabs. You assign these achievements to yourself for no reason: neither Bush the lesser nor Blair (nor Cheney and Condi Rice for that matter) represent the greatness of Western civilization. If you do not want to have the millions of people moving to the safety of Europe from their destroyed homes, direct your attention to the bloody Western plutocracy.
    If you do not care to read about the full-spectrum dominance and its tight relation to Yinon plan, then the wet kisses between Bush and Saudi Princes could be a good explanation of the logic of the events in the Middle East for you. By the way, check your genetic makeup to be sure what side of the Med you belong to.

    Read More
  198. annamaria says:
    @geokat62

    In case you are not aware, the foundations of geometry, math, architecture, and optics were laid down by the Arabs, see Pythagoras (Greek, 6th century BC) who studied during his formative years in Egypt and Al Hazen that did his studies long before Newton.
     
    Annamarina, not sure if it's fair to attribute the foundations of these fields to the Arabs.

    Pythagoras did travel to Egypt and surrounding environs, which had the following influences on him:

    The Egyptians are said to have taught him geometry, the Phoenicians arithmetic, the Chaldeans astronomy, the Magians the principles of religion and practical maxims for the conduct of life.
     
    While Al Hazen made significant contributions to these fields, he arrived on the scene ~ 1,500 yrs later, well after the foundations had already been laid.

    You are right – Egyptians are not Arabs. (I lumped the North Africans and Middle Eastern people together for brevity of response, since “The Middle East and North Africa are two regions that are often grouped together because they have many things in common. Islam is the dominant religion of the area and almost everyone speaks Arabic”). As for Al Hazen, his innovative development in optics in 1000 did predate the studies in the same field by Newton.

    Read More
    • Replies: @geokat62

    As for Al Hazen, his innovative development in optics in 1000 did predate the studies in the same field by Newton.
     
    You are right. I was thinking of the work Archimedes in this field. According to one source:

    Archimedes was very much involved in catoptrics (reflections from surfaces) and in refraction, but his writings in this field are lost, and his mathematics papers were not translated into Latin until the 16th and 17th centuries when their appearance had a significant effect upon the development of mathematics.

    http://www.ee.umd.edu/~taylor/optics1.htm
     
  199. geokat62 says:
    @annamaria
    You are right – Egyptians are not Arabs. (I lumped the North Africans and Middle Eastern people together for brevity of response, since "The Middle East and North Africa are two regions that are often grouped together because they have many things in common. Islam is the dominant religion of the area and almost everyone speaks Arabic"). As for Al Hazen, his innovative development in optics in 1000 did predate the studies in the same field by Newton.

    As for Al Hazen, his innovative development in optics in 1000 did predate the studies in the same field by Newton.

    You are right. I was thinking of the work Archimedes in this field. According to one source:

    Archimedes was very much involved in catoptrics (reflections from surfaces) and in refraction, but his writings in this field are lost, and his mathematics papers were not translated into Latin until the 16th and 17th centuries when their appearance had a significant effect upon the development of mathematics.

    http://www.ee.umd.edu/~taylor/optics1.htm

    Read More
    • Replies: @Avery
    The supposed contributions of Arabs to science etc are mostly a case of mistaken attribution.
    In the same vein as the the so-called 'Arabic numerals', which were actually invented in India.
    The reason they are called 'Arabic numerals' is because Arab travelers or invaders introduced them to Europeans.

    And Egyptians were not Arabs originally, but after centuries of invasions and conquests by Arabs, there is very little of original Egyptians left in Egypt. Maybe only the Coptic Egyptians.
    But I am guessing: don't know too much about Egypt's history.
  200. KA says:
    @This Is Our Home

    And what have your people given to humanity
     
    Common law, the theories of gravity and evolution, medicine that actually works, industry, all popular sports, the novel, non-Malthusian society, the English language, the web, Economics, and so many more things I cannot possibly name them all.

    So please leave.

    Most Important, it gave MAGNA CARTA that forced the king to get rid of the Jewish people who were accused of sucking the blood out of the economy.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Avery
    too bad there was no equivalent "Magna Carta" in Asia Minor to get rid of the nomadic Turkic Uyguroğlar invaders, who not only sucked the blood out of the productive indigenous peoples, but exterminated and ethnically cleansed most of them.
    , @This Is Our Home
    So we agree, Arabs should leave Europe now.
  201. Avery says:
    @geokat62

    As for Al Hazen, his innovative development in optics in 1000 did predate the studies in the same field by Newton.
     
    You are right. I was thinking of the work Archimedes in this field. According to one source:

    Archimedes was very much involved in catoptrics (reflections from surfaces) and in refraction, but his writings in this field are lost, and his mathematics papers were not translated into Latin until the 16th and 17th centuries when their appearance had a significant effect upon the development of mathematics.

    http://www.ee.umd.edu/~taylor/optics1.htm
     

    The supposed contributions of Arabs to science etc are mostly a case of mistaken attribution.
    In the same vein as the the so-called ‘Arabic numerals’, which were actually invented in India.
    The reason they are called ‘Arabic numerals’ is because Arab travelers or invaders introduced them to Europeans.

    And Egyptians were not Arabs originally, but after centuries of invasions and conquests by Arabs, there is very little of original Egyptians left in Egypt. Maybe only the Coptic Egyptians.
    But I am guessing: don’t know too much about Egypt’s history.

    Read More
  202. Avery says:
    @KA
    Most Important, it gave MAGNA CARTA that forced the king to get rid of the Jewish people who were accused of sucking the blood out of the economy.

    too bad there was no equivalent “Magna Carta” in Asia Minor to get rid of the nomadic Turkic Uyguroğlar invaders, who not only sucked the blood out of the productive indigenous peoples, but exterminated and ethnically cleansed most of them.

    Read More
    • Replies: @KA
    Change the therapist and ask for a rehab place .
    , @KA
    All right sir,

    thanks for your conviction and contributions to this site.
    You are intelligent and I am positive you have feelings for all human being in general
    Thanks
  203. KA says:
    @Avery
    too bad there was no equivalent "Magna Carta" in Asia Minor to get rid of the nomadic Turkic Uyguroğlar invaders, who not only sucked the blood out of the productive indigenous peoples, but exterminated and ethnically cleansed most of them.

    Change the therapist and ask for a rehab place .

    Read More
    • Replies: @Avery
    I sure will, Doctor Bey.

    As soon as you, your dad, your grand-dad, and all your "meat-processing" nomad kin get out of our lands and return to your homeland in Uyguristan.
    Don't forget to take your nomad Yurt with you.
  204. KA says:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/03/opinion/the-facebook-intifada.html?_r=0

    Should we sue Facebook for inciting violence ? What about the government officials who are falsifying threat levels and trying to incite violence ?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Avery
    Who is "we" denialist Türkoğlu ?

    you wanna sue someone, go back to Türkiye and sue your Islamist neo-Sultan Tayyip bey.
    lots of freedom of speech there: you'll do fine.
    nothing will happen to you.
    trust me.

  205. Avery says:
    @KA
    Change the therapist and ask for a rehab place .

    I sure will, Doctor Bey.

    As soon as you, your dad, your grand-dad, and all your “meat-processing” nomad kin get out of our lands and return to your homeland in Uyguristan.
    Don’t forget to take your nomad Yurt with you.

    Read More
  206. Avery says:
    @KA
    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/03/opinion/the-facebook-intifada.html?_r=0
    Should we sue Facebook for inciting violence ? What about the government officials who are falsifying threat levels and trying to incite violence ?

    Who is “we” denialist Türkoğlu ?

    you wanna sue someone, go back to Türkiye and sue your Islamist neo-Sultan Tayyip bey.
    lots of freedom of speech there: you’ll do fine.
    nothing will happen to you.
    trust me.

    Read More
  207. KA says:
    @Avery
    too bad there was no equivalent "Magna Carta" in Asia Minor to get rid of the nomadic Turkic Uyguroğlar invaders, who not only sucked the blood out of the productive indigenous peoples, but exterminated and ethnically cleansed most of them.

    All right sir,

    thanks for your conviction and contributions to this site.
    You are intelligent and I am positive you have feelings for all human being in general
    Thanks

    Read More
    • Replies: @Avery
    So it is “sir” now, is it ?
    What happened to the Chinese “meat processing” factories and all that ?
    What happened to insulting my dad, nomad ?

    http://www.unz.com/emargolis/the-u-s-and-china-are-playing-with-matches/
    { KA says November 3, 2015 at 10:55 am GMT That’s what your dad taught at you at a Chinese meat processing factory?}

    Show me where and when I insulted your dad, nomad, that you give yourself the right to insult mine.

    {thanks for you conviction and contribution to this site}

    This site ?
    This site was created and is being run by a California Jewish-American man: Ron Unz. Which you use to spread hate against Jews and spread IslamoFascist disinformation and propaganda.
    Keep your "Thanks" to yourself.

    I’ll see you around anti-American, anti-Christian, anti-Armenian, denialist Turk.
    Take care
    And, “Thanks”.

  208. This Is Our Home [AKA "Robert Rediger"] says:
    @KA
    Most Important, it gave MAGNA CARTA that forced the king to get rid of the Jewish people who were accused of sucking the blood out of the economy.

    So we agree, Arabs should leave Europe now.

    Read More
    • Replies: @KA
    Sure ,they should and settle in Golan Heights,Jersalem,and in rest of Israel. America instead of sending 4 billions to Israel should give it to these Arabs .
    Israelis should be given the option of returning to Eastern Europe and Germany.
  209. KA says:
    @This Is Our Home
    So we agree, Arabs should leave Europe now.

    Sure ,they should and settle in Golan Heights,Jersalem,and in rest of Israel. America instead of sending 4 billions to Israel should give it to these Arabs .
    Israelis should be given the option of returning to Eastern Europe and Germany.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Avery
    When invading Turks leave Asia Minor and return to East and Central Asia, their homelands, then we can discuss who should go and who should stay in the Levant.
    , @This Is Our Home
    Yeah because Israelis don't belong in the ancient land of Israel lol.
  210. Avery says:
    @KA
    All right sir,

    thanks for your conviction and contributions to this site.
    You are intelligent and I am positive you have feelings for all human being in general
    Thanks

    So it is “sir” now, is it ?
    What happened to the Chinese “meat processing” factories and all that ?
    What happened to insulting my dad, nomad ?

    http://www.unz.com/emargolis/the-u-s-and-china-are-playing-with-matches/

    { KA says November 3, 2015 at 10:55 am GMT That’s what your dad taught at you at a Chinese meat processing factory?}

    Show me where and when I insulted your dad, nomad, that you give yourself the right to insult mine.

    {thanks for you conviction and contribution to this site}

    This site ?
    This site was created and is being run by a California Jewish-American man: Ron Unz. Which you use to spread hate against Jews and spread IslamoFascist disinformation and propaganda.
    Keep your “Thanks” to yourself.

    I’ll see you around anti-American, anti-Christian, anti-Armenian, denialist Turk.
    Take care
    And, “Thanks”.

    Read More
    • Replies: @KA
    Truth comes to you as propaganda. Couching insults against Muslims under the guise of made -up history without links or citation,that I see in your postings are broader reflections of the same endeavor .
    Your dad is a respectable person. . So is any family of belivers including atheists,or religion a respectable entity.

    Judiasm is still very different to me from Israel , ,Israeli Firster,Israeli enabler and Zionism

    Just a bit of advice ,say anything- just provide the links.
    , @KA
    Conflating remote past with present,mixing up effects with causes,and hiding the aims of the Zionism behind Christian and oriental values are part of Israeli obfuscation .
    In case some gains could be had,why not- lets introduce China as anti -Islam or anti -Turk !

    Zionism has now expanded on the original geographical idea of " periphery" to ethnic and religious spheres.
  211. Avery says:
    @KA
    Sure ,they should and settle in Golan Heights,Jersalem,and in rest of Israel. America instead of sending 4 billions to Israel should give it to these Arabs .
    Israelis should be given the option of returning to Eastern Europe and Germany.

    When invading Turks leave Asia Minor and return to East and Central Asia, their homelands, then we can discuss who should go and who should stay in the Levant.

    Read More
  212. KA says:
    @Avery
    So it is “sir” now, is it ?
    What happened to the Chinese “meat processing” factories and all that ?
    What happened to insulting my dad, nomad ?

    http://www.unz.com/emargolis/the-u-s-and-china-are-playing-with-matches/
    { KA says November 3, 2015 at 10:55 am GMT That’s what your dad taught at you at a Chinese meat processing factory?}

    Show me where and when I insulted your dad, nomad, that you give yourself the right to insult mine.

    {thanks for you conviction and contribution to this site}

    This site ?
    This site was created and is being run by a California Jewish-American man: Ron Unz. Which you use to spread hate against Jews and spread IslamoFascist disinformation and propaganda.
    Keep your "Thanks" to yourself.

    I’ll see you around anti-American, anti-Christian, anti-Armenian, denialist Turk.
    Take care
    And, “Thanks”.

    Truth comes to you as propaganda. Couching insults against Muslims under the guise of made -up history without links or citation,that I see in your postings are broader reflections of the same endeavor .
    Your dad is a respectable person. . So is any family of belivers including atheists,or religion a respectable entity.

    Judiasm is still very different to me from Israel , ,Israeli Firster,Israeli enabler and Zionism

    Just a bit of advice ,say anything- just provide the links.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Avery
    Again: your so-called "truth" denying the Armenian Genocide is lies, disinformation, and propaganda.

    You can produce a hundred links from denialist sites: makes no difference.
    All the Turkish denialist lies have been debunked.
    The diminishing circle of remnant denialists gets smaller every year.

    "Couching insults against Muslims .."
    Show me where I insulted Muslims in general, if you can.
    Go ahead: provide the link.

    On the other hand I can show you where you insulted my dad.
    It's on record right here on UNZ.com servers.
    You started insulting my family.
    I have not said one word about your family in any of my posts.
    But you insulted my dad.

    And you can keep your bit of advice.
    Last thing I need is advice from an Armenian Genocide denying Turk.

  213. KA says:
    @Avery
    So it is “sir” now, is it ?
    What happened to the Chinese “meat processing” factories and all that ?
    What happened to insulting my dad, nomad ?

    http://www.unz.com/emargolis/the-u-s-and-china-are-playing-with-matches/
    { KA says November 3, 2015 at 10:55 am GMT That’s what your dad taught at you at a Chinese meat processing factory?}

    Show me where and when I insulted your dad, nomad, that you give yourself the right to insult mine.

    {thanks for you conviction and contribution to this site}

    This site ?
    This site was created and is being run by a California Jewish-American man: Ron Unz. Which you use to spread hate against Jews and spread IslamoFascist disinformation and propaganda.
    Keep your "Thanks" to yourself.

    I’ll see you around anti-American, anti-Christian, anti-Armenian, denialist Turk.
    Take care
    And, “Thanks”.

    Conflating remote past with present,mixing up effects with causes,and hiding the aims of the Zionism behind Christian and oriental values are part of Israeli obfuscation .
    In case some gains could be had,why not- lets introduce China as anti -Islam or anti -Turk !

    Zionism has now expanded on the original geographical idea of ” periphery” to ethnic and religious spheres.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Avery
    {...hiding the aims of the Zionism behind Christian and oriental values are part of Israeli obfuscation ...}

    What ?
    Your AG denialism addled mind is playing tricks on you.
    What are you talking about ?
  214. This Is Our Home [AKA "Robert Rediger"] says:
    @KA
    Sure ,they should and settle in Golan Heights,Jersalem,and in rest of Israel. America instead of sending 4 billions to Israel should give it to these Arabs .
    Israelis should be given the option of returning to Eastern Europe and Germany.

    Yeah because Israelis don’t belong in the ancient land of Israel lol.

    Read More
  215. Avery says:
    @KA
    Truth comes to you as propaganda. Couching insults against Muslims under the guise of made -up history without links or citation,that I see in your postings are broader reflections of the same endeavor .
    Your dad is a respectable person. . So is any family of belivers including atheists,or religion a respectable entity.

    Judiasm is still very different to me from Israel , ,Israeli Firster,Israeli enabler and Zionism

    Just a bit of advice ,say anything- just provide the links.

    Again: your so-called “truth” denying the Armenian Genocide is lies, disinformation, and propaganda.

    You can produce a hundred links from denialist sites: makes no difference.
    All the Turkish denialist lies have been debunked.
    The diminishing circle of remnant denialists gets smaller every year.

    “Couching insults against Muslims ..”
    Show me where I insulted Muslims in general, if you can.
    Go ahead: provide the link.

    On the other hand I can show you where you insulted my dad.
    It’s on record right here on UNZ.com servers.
    You started insulting my family.
    I have not said one word about your family in any of my posts.
    But you insulted my dad.

    And you can keep your bit of advice.
    Last thing I need is advice from an Armenian Genocide denying Turk.

    Read More
    • Replies: @KA
    This is just one of many where you have insulted commentators including me .

    Avery says:
    November 3, 2015 at 9:38 am GMT • 100 Words
    @KA
    {…if they have up anti Islam hysteria and try to lurch to the real enemy.}

    The real enemy of the Western civilization is radical Islam.
    Always was and always will be.
    China is an ancient, sedentary, creative civilization.
    They are no threat to the West.
    Just an economic rival.
    Chinese don’t travel 1000s of miles from their homeland and invade the lands of others, like your kin.

    http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/01/world/asia/china-railway-attack/

    {Twenty-nine people were killed and 130 were injured Saturday night when 10 men armed with long knives stormed the station in the southwest Chinese city of Kunming, the state news agency Xinhua reported.}

    Your Uygur kin massacring unarmed civilians with knives: sound familiar ?
    "


    Stop using "your Uygur kin " or " like your kin"

    Stop.

    You don't want you and your family not to be a focus or be insulted . I respect that . Now respect us . Stop using " your religion" or " your tribe" or " your clan" or " your ancestor"

    You should have the capacity to engage in argument without becoming personal.

    Also be ready to hear strong pushback if you associate Turkish Armenian relation with broader Muslim history separated by time and space .
    Also be ready to read the postings such as " let Armenia be fragmented into tiny dark ally or unpaved roads" if you keep on writing similar stuff on Turkey or any country.
  216. Avery says:
    @KA
    Conflating remote past with present,mixing up effects with causes,and hiding the aims of the Zionism behind Christian and oriental values are part of Israeli obfuscation .
    In case some gains could be had,why not- lets introduce China as anti -Islam or anti -Turk !

    Zionism has now expanded on the original geographical idea of " periphery" to ethnic and religious spheres.

    {…hiding the aims of the Zionism behind Christian and oriental values are part of Israeli obfuscation …}

    What ?
    Your AG denialism addled mind is playing tricks on you.
    What are you talking about ?

    Read More
  217. KA says:
    @Avery
    Again: your so-called "truth" denying the Armenian Genocide is lies, disinformation, and propaganda.

    You can produce a hundred links from denialist sites: makes no difference.
    All the Turkish denialist lies have been debunked.
    The diminishing circle of remnant denialists gets smaller every year.

    "Couching insults against Muslims .."
    Show me where I insulted Muslims in general, if you can.
    Go ahead: provide the link.

    On the other hand I can show you where you insulted my dad.
    It's on record right here on UNZ.com servers.
    You started insulting my family.
    I have not said one word about your family in any of my posts.
    But you insulted my dad.

    And you can keep your bit of advice.
    Last thing I need is advice from an Armenian Genocide denying Turk.

    This is just one of many where you have insulted commentators including me .

    Avery says:
    November 3, 2015 at 9:38 am GMT • 100 Words

    {…if they have up anti Islam hysteria and try to lurch to the real enemy.}

    The real enemy of the Western civilization is radical Islam.
    Always was and always will be.
    China is an ancient, sedentary, creative civilization.
    They are no threat to the West.
    Just an economic rival.
    Chinese don’t travel 1000s of miles from their homeland and invade the lands of others, like your kin.

    http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/01/world/asia/china-railway-attack/

    {Twenty-nine people were killed and 130 were injured Saturday night when 10 men armed with long knives stormed the station in the southwest Chinese city of Kunming, the state news agency Xinhua reported.}

    Your Uygur kin massacring unarmed civilians with knives: sound familiar ?

    Stop using “your Uygur kin ” or ” like your kin”

    Stop.

    You don’t want you and your family not to be a focus or be insulted . I respect that . Now respect us . Stop using ” your religion” or ” your tribe” or ” your clan” or ” your ancestor”

    You should have the capacity to engage in argument without becoming personal.

    Also be ready to hear strong pushback if you associate Turkish Armenian relation with broader Muslim history separated by time and space .
    Also be ready to read the postings such as ” let Armenia be fragmented into tiny dark ally or unpaved roads” if you keep on writing similar stuff on Turkey or any country.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Avery
    Everything I have written, as you reproduced above, I stand behind, because they are factual.
    Show me which one of those is not a factual.
    And again, show me where I wrote anything about your dad.

    You are a Turk, yes ?
    Turks are descendants of Uygurs: fact; not insult, fact.
    Turks inhabiting Asia Minor today are descendants of nomadic Turkic tribes from East and Central Asia: fact; not insult, fact.

    And I already gave you the example of your Turk FM Davutoglu proclaiming that he is visiting the lands of "our" (Turks') ancestors in Uyguristan.
    You do remember that, Yes ?
    You remember writing something about the moon ?

    You like links ?
    Here:
    [We have corrupt DNA]
    http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/we-have-corrupt-dna.aspx?PageID=238&NID=66875&NewsCatID=469
    {Our genes must have gone through mutations while we were traveling on horseback from Central Asia to Anatolia. It’s a long ride. Something must have gone wrong along the way. I think we are mutant Turks. Like Ninja turtles. We are like a lab accident. }
    {We have persistently reserved that killer gene for centuries. Even though we do not conquer and fight in the battlefield anymore, we have the mutant killer gene and its sub-gene that protects the murderer. We have special respect and a secret love for the murderer. }

    There you go: the Turk editor of a nationalist Turkish news outlet "insulting" Turks.
    Do you have any comment about that, denialoğlu ?
    That's not an "insult" is it ? You are denying that Turks committed Genocide against Armenians, are you not ?

    And you are welcome to say anything about Armenians' ancestors.
    And you are welcome to say anything about Armenia.
    But when you insult someone's dad - then all bets are off pal.
    You threw the first punch below the belt: you opened the door; I am not going to let it slide.
    Have no doubt.

    "Also be ready to hear strong pushback "

    I am ready.
    Bring it on, denialist Uyguroğlu.
    You are not the first denialist Turk I have worn down.
    And you won't be the last.
    Bring it on, denialist nomadoğlu: I can't wait.

  218. Avery says:
    @KA
    This is just one of many where you have insulted commentators including me .

    Avery says:
    November 3, 2015 at 9:38 am GMT • 100 Words
    @KA
    {…if they have up anti Islam hysteria and try to lurch to the real enemy.}

    The real enemy of the Western civilization is radical Islam.
    Always was and always will be.
    China is an ancient, sedentary, creative civilization.
    They are no threat to the West.
    Just an economic rival.
    Chinese don’t travel 1000s of miles from their homeland and invade the lands of others, like your kin.

    http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/01/world/asia/china-railway-attack/

    {Twenty-nine people were killed and 130 were injured Saturday night when 10 men armed with long knives stormed the station in the southwest Chinese city of Kunming, the state news agency Xinhua reported.}

    Your Uygur kin massacring unarmed civilians with knives: sound familiar ?
    "


    Stop using "your Uygur kin " or " like your kin"

    Stop.

    You don't want you and your family not to be a focus or be insulted . I respect that . Now respect us . Stop using " your religion" or " your tribe" or " your clan" or " your ancestor"

    You should have the capacity to engage in argument without becoming personal.

    Also be ready to hear strong pushback if you associate Turkish Armenian relation with broader Muslim history separated by time and space .
    Also be ready to read the postings such as " let Armenia be fragmented into tiny dark ally or unpaved roads" if you keep on writing similar stuff on Turkey or any country.

    Everything I have written, as you reproduced above, I stand behind, because they are factual.
    Show me which one of those is not a factual.
    And again, show me where I wrote anything about your dad.

    You are a Turk, yes ?
    Turks are descendants of Uygurs: fact; not insult, fact.
    Turks inhabiting Asia Minor today are descendants of nomadic Turkic tribes from East and Central Asia: fact; not insult, fact.

    And I already gave you the example of your Turk FM Davutoglu proclaiming that he is visiting the lands of “our” (Turks’) ancestors in Uyguristan.
    You do remember that, Yes ?
    You remember writing something about the moon ?

    You like links ?
    Here:
    [We have corrupt DNA]

    http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/we-have-corrupt-dna.aspx?PageID=238&NID=66875&NewsCatID=469

    {Our genes must have gone through mutations while we were traveling on horseback from Central Asia to Anatolia. It’s a long ride. Something must have gone wrong along the way. I think we are mutant Turks. Like Ninja turtles. We are like a lab accident. }
    {We have persistently reserved that killer gene for centuries. Even though we do not conquer and fight in the battlefield anymore, we have the mutant killer gene and its sub-gene that protects the murderer. We have special respect and a secret love for the murderer. }

    There you go: the Turk editor of a nationalist Turkish news outlet “insulting” Turks.
    Do you have any comment about that, denialoğlu ?
    That’s not an “insult” is it ? You are denying that Turks committed Genocide against Armenians, are you not ?

    And you are welcome to say anything about Armenians’ ancestors.
    And you are welcome to say anything about Armenia.
    But when you insult someone’s dad – then all bets are off pal.
    You threw the first punch below the belt: you opened the door; I am not going to let it slide.
    Have no doubt.

    “Also be ready to hear strong pushback ”

    I am ready.
    Bring it on, denialist Uyguroğlu.
    You are not the first denialist Turk I have worn down.
    And you won’t be the last.
    Bring it on, denialist nomadoğlu: I can’t wait.

    Read More
    • Replies: @KA
    I am not Turk.
    I hope somebody was here from Turk to spend some more time on your distortions.
    Now again stop the insinuation.
    Your dad is your problem .This site is not about personal association with clan or dad This is about argument and counter argument with facts and links.
    Keep it limited to that and your dad would not be mentioned.
    Get it into your head!
    , @KA
    Lot of countries have brought it on Armenia - Iran to Turkey Czar's Russia and Soviet Russia Russia. Czar even went to join Syko-Pikot Sazanov agreement ( NYTimes) to get a piece of Jerusalem,Istanbul,and Iraq while same time agitating the Armenians inside and outside of Turkey to destroy Turkey working as 5 th column.( Chicago Tribune 10/16/2007)Armeniaan within Turkey in 1914 tried to set up a state within present day Turkey . It did not succeed .

    Russia already had staked a claim in Palestine as custodian of century's old Armenian quarters and and in 1860 over Orthodox quarter ,waging war against Catholics ( Resulting in Crimean war) and Turkey by using Christian population against Turkey( the way IS and Wahabis now use against Russia ) Armenians find it painful to be be told the truth . It hurts . Despite 4 yrs occupation by Britain they could not come up with any other than forged evidences of the massacre
    .When religion was in vogue Armenian variety of Christianity was not even considered to be Christian by Coptic Syrian,Orthodox Russian let alone by Catholic,
    It is a sad story for a country always trying to find some relevance and ending up in irrelevance as a vassal of the neighboring empire.
  219. Yeah because Israelis don’t belong in the ancient land of Israel lol.

    The ” land” today called Israel is the “ancient” home of the Canaanite people and the people of Jericho, who were dispossessed and slaughtered by the followers of Abraham, who migrated from Ur in Mesopotamia.

    If by “Israelis” you mean the people who are today living where Jericho once thrived, they are from Lithuania, Poland and (the smarter ones are from) Russia.

    Read More
    • Replies: @This Is Our Home

    The ” land” today called Israel is the “ancient” home of the Canaanite people and the people of Jericho, who were dispossessed and slaughtered by the followers of Abraham, who migrated from Ur in Mesopotamia.

    If by “Israelis” you mean the people who are today living where Jericho once thrived, they are from Lithuania, Poland and (the smarter ones are from) Russia.
     
    These girls don't look like anyone I know from Poland.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3bjZlmsb4A
  220. KA says:
    @Avery
    Everything I have written, as you reproduced above, I stand behind, because they are factual.
    Show me which one of those is not a factual.
    And again, show me where I wrote anything about your dad.

    You are a Turk, yes ?
    Turks are descendants of Uygurs: fact; not insult, fact.
    Turks inhabiting Asia Minor today are descendants of nomadic Turkic tribes from East and Central Asia: fact; not insult, fact.

    And I already gave you the example of your Turk FM Davutoglu proclaiming that he is visiting the lands of "our" (Turks') ancestors in Uyguristan.
    You do remember that, Yes ?
    You remember writing something about the moon ?

    You like links ?
    Here:
    [We have corrupt DNA]
    http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/we-have-corrupt-dna.aspx?PageID=238&NID=66875&NewsCatID=469
    {Our genes must have gone through mutations while we were traveling on horseback from Central Asia to Anatolia. It’s a long ride. Something must have gone wrong along the way. I think we are mutant Turks. Like Ninja turtles. We are like a lab accident. }
    {We have persistently reserved that killer gene for centuries. Even though we do not conquer and fight in the battlefield anymore, we have the mutant killer gene and its sub-gene that protects the murderer. We have special respect and a secret love for the murderer. }

    There you go: the Turk editor of a nationalist Turkish news outlet "insulting" Turks.
    Do you have any comment about that, denialoğlu ?
    That's not an "insult" is it ? You are denying that Turks committed Genocide against Armenians, are you not ?

    And you are welcome to say anything about Armenians' ancestors.
    And you are welcome to say anything about Armenia.
    But when you insult someone's dad - then all bets are off pal.
    You threw the first punch below the belt: you opened the door; I am not going to let it slide.
    Have no doubt.

    "Also be ready to hear strong pushback "

    I am ready.
    Bring it on, denialist Uyguroğlu.
    You are not the first denialist Turk I have worn down.
    And you won't be the last.
    Bring it on, denialist nomadoğlu: I can't wait.

    I am not Turk.
    I hope somebody was here from Turk to spend some more time on your distortions.
    Now again stop the insinuation.
    Your dad is your problem .This site is not about personal association with clan or dad This is about argument and counter argument with facts and links.
    Keep it limited to that and your dad would not be mentioned.
    Get it into your head!

    Read More
  221. KA says:
    @Avery
    Everything I have written, as you reproduced above, I stand behind, because they are factual.
    Show me which one of those is not a factual.
    And again, show me where I wrote anything about your dad.

    You are a Turk, yes ?
    Turks are descendants of Uygurs: fact; not insult, fact.
    Turks inhabiting Asia Minor today are descendants of nomadic Turkic tribes from East and Central Asia: fact; not insult, fact.

    And I already gave you the example of your Turk FM Davutoglu proclaiming that he is visiting the lands of "our" (Turks') ancestors in Uyguristan.
    You do remember that, Yes ?
    You remember writing something about the moon ?

    You like links ?
    Here:
    [We have corrupt DNA]
    http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/we-have-corrupt-dna.aspx?PageID=238&NID=66875&NewsCatID=469
    {Our genes must have gone through mutations while we were traveling on horseback from Central Asia to Anatolia. It’s a long ride. Something must have gone wrong along the way. I think we are mutant Turks. Like Ninja turtles. We are like a lab accident. }
    {We have persistently reserved that killer gene for centuries. Even though we do not conquer and fight in the battlefield anymore, we have the mutant killer gene and its sub-gene that protects the murderer. We have special respect and a secret love for the murderer. }

    There you go: the Turk editor of a nationalist Turkish news outlet "insulting" Turks.
    Do you have any comment about that, denialoğlu ?
    That's not an "insult" is it ? You are denying that Turks committed Genocide against Armenians, are you not ?

    And you are welcome to say anything about Armenians' ancestors.
    And you are welcome to say anything about Armenia.
    But when you insult someone's dad - then all bets are off pal.
    You threw the first punch below the belt: you opened the door; I am not going to let it slide.
    Have no doubt.

    "Also be ready to hear strong pushback "

    I am ready.
    Bring it on, denialist Uyguroğlu.
    You are not the first denialist Turk I have worn down.
    And you won't be the last.
    Bring it on, denialist nomadoğlu: I can't wait.

    Lot of countries have brought it on Armenia – Iran to Turkey Czar’s Russia and Soviet Russia Russia. Czar even went to join Syko-Pikot Sazanov agreement ( NYTimes) to get a piece of Jerusalem,Istanbul,and Iraq while same time agitating the Armenians inside and outside of Turkey to destroy Turkey working as 5 th column.( Chicago Tribune 10/16/2007)Armeniaan within Turkey in 1914 tried to set up a state within present day Turkey . It did not succeed .

    Russia already had staked a claim in Palestine as custodian of century’s old Armenian quarters and and in 1860 over Orthodox quarter ,waging war against Catholics ( Resulting in Crimean war) and Turkey by using Christian population against Turkey( the way IS and Wahabis now use against Russia ) Armenians find it painful to be be told the truth . It hurts . Despite 4 yrs occupation by Britain they could not come up with any other than forged evidences of the massacre
    .When religion was in vogue Armenian variety of Christianity was not even considered to be Christian by Coptic Syrian,Orthodox Russian let alone by Catholic,
    It is a sad story for a country always trying to find some relevance and ending up in irrelevance as a vassal of the neighboring empire.

    Read More
  222. This Is Our Home [AKA "Robert Rediger"] says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Yeah because Israelis don’t belong in the ancient land of Israel lol.
     
    The " land" today called Israel is the "ancient" home of the Canaanite people and the people of Jericho, who were dispossessed and slaughtered by the followers of Abraham, who migrated from Ur in Mesopotamia.

    If by "Israelis" you mean the people who are today living where Jericho once thrived, they are from Lithuania, Poland and (the smarter ones are from) Russia.

    The ” land” today called Israel is the “ancient” home of the Canaanite people and the people of Jericho, who were dispossessed and slaughtered by the followers of Abraham, who migrated from Ur in Mesopotamia.

    If by “Israelis” you mean the people who are today living where Jericho once thrived, they are from Lithuania, Poland and (the smarter ones are from) Russia.

    These girls don’t look like anyone I know from Poland.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3bjZlmsb4A

    Read More
  223. Sam Shama says:
    @geokat62

    Charges against Topham apparently resulted from his criticism of the Talmud.
     
    Thanks for sharing that link. When I clicked on it, it took me to a page that contained this quote:

    Jehovah created the non-Jew in human form so that the Jew would not have to be served by beasts. The non-Jew is consequently an animal in human form, and condemned to serve the Jew day and night.

    Midrasch Talpioth, p. 225-L
     
    I once had an exchange with Sam S about the meaning of "goyem." Sam, if this is an authentic excerpt from the Talmud, does it not support my contention that "goyem" connotes "cattle," as the term "non-Jew" in this quote would probably be "goyem" in the Hebrew original?

    geo,

    The short and truthful answer to this inquiry is : yes and no, with a heavy emphasis on the ‘no’.

    The Midrashim, from which the above section is claimed to be lifted, are critical discussions and interpretations of the Torah principally, and more generally of the Tanakh = Torah + Ne’vi’im + K’tuvim (the Teachings + the Prophets + Writings).

    The first thing I must tell you about the Talmud, which is the entire legalistic codification of the Oral tradition of the Torah (called the Halakha), plus the discussion and debates on those codifications, is that it is HUGE (more than 6000 pages) : No one I believe can derive an unambiguous meaning from a linear reading (i.e., from page 1 to page 6000). Not because it is meant to confuse, but because it is an unplanned collection over many centuries.

    If we had collected all the laws, rules and traditions, of say, England, from its Germanic antiquity, to the Crusades, to the Conqueror to Henry the VIII to Elizabeth and stretching all the way to the present set of civil (common) and corporate laws, we would essentially be dealing with an unwieldy, internally inconsistent and in the end mostly useless document. Mostly useless that is, unless a body of logical principles that harnessed it over the chronology.

    In the case of the Talmud, this harnessing instrument is the insertion of the 71 Sanhedrin , judges, who are charged with interpreting, validating and rejecting particular uses of laws and traditions in the context of the present.

    So, passages of the type listed above are certainly there in the Talmud, but entirely meaningless. Those passages were written during the crusades when severe oppression of non-Christians led to an expected reaction from the rabbis who wanted to preserve any cultural and religious tradition that they possibly could. They resorted to whatever means at their disposal, including branding friendly surrounding non-jewish communities as non-human. It really is no different than some present day HBD’ers decrying the mixing of races (search the pages of UR, you cannot miss them. At least the rabbis in those days were trying to prevent a complete assimilation of the Jewish peoples!). Also the fact of the matter is, a great many Talmudic principles were written exclusively for Jews and did not apply to others.

    the term ‘Goy’ (singular) or ‘Goyim’ plural as applied throughout the received interpretation of the Sh’mot, Va’ikra, D’Varim and basically the exegesis of Tanakh, is that of ‘Citizen’ or ‘Citizens’ as distinct from the ‘Yehud’ and ‘Yehudim’ who typically were not citizens!

    This rubbish that is getting some circulation here at the UR, and other internet venues, is the result of the actions of a very small minority of creatures in the WB and those who would jump at the opportunity to discredit the much larger modern Jewish community. I can’t tell you how stupid the use of these midrashim are, with or without any modernist layering, simply by observing other halachic laws that go squarely against any interpretation of ‘Goyim’ as ‘cattle’! For example in Jewish laws of matrimony and extra-matrimonial relationships, if a Jewish woman bears the illegitimate child from another Jewish man, then the child – a mamzer – is not considered a part of the community, whereas if the child is sired by a ‘Goy’ then he/she is considered a Jew! Do you see the inherent inconsistency of that rendition of the law with the identification Goyim as beasts?!!!

    Let put an end to this deleterious nonsense, at least amongst us, the civilised and educated lot shall we?

    Read More
    • Agree: SolontoCroesus
    • Replies: @geokat62

    So, passages of the type listed above are certainly there in the Talmud, but entirely meaningless.
     
    Thanks for the response, Sam.

    One observation. You do remember how the Zionists demanded that every single objectionable word in Palestinian school books, among other documents, be expurgated. Would you be averse to the same demand being made by the Palestinians - i.e., that the same policy should be applied reciprocally?
    , @RobinG
    Sam,

    Thanks for sharing so much. One question, do you know why it is that (maybe the True Torah) definitely the NK denounce and reject the Talmud?

    And also, about Britain, isn't it true that they also have no constitution, but rather a common law and accumulated rights? Is this equivalent to Israel's basic law?
  224. geokat62 says:
    @Sam Shama
    geo,

    The short and truthful answer to this inquiry is : yes and no, with a heavy emphasis on the 'no'.

    The Midrashim, from which the above section is claimed to be lifted, are critical discussions and interpretations of the Torah principally, and more generally of the Tanakh = Torah + Ne'vi'im + K'tuvim (the Teachings + the Prophets + Writings).

    The first thing I must tell you about the Talmud, which is the entire legalistic codification of the Oral tradition of the Torah (called the Halakha), plus the discussion and debates on those codifications, is that it is HUGE (more than 6000 pages) : No one I believe can derive an unambiguous meaning from a linear reading (i.e., from page 1 to page 6000). Not because it is meant to confuse, but because it is an unplanned collection over many centuries.

    If we had collected all the laws, rules and traditions, of say, England, from its Germanic antiquity, to the Crusades, to the Conqueror to Henry the VIII to Elizabeth and stretching all the way to the present set of civil (common) and corporate laws, we would essentially be dealing with an unwieldy, internally inconsistent and in the end mostly useless document. Mostly useless that is, unless a body of logical principles that harnessed it over the chronology.

    In the case of the Talmud, this harnessing instrument is the insertion of the 71 Sanhedrin , judges, who are charged with interpreting, validating and rejecting particular uses of laws and traditions in the context of the present.

    So, passages of the type listed above are certainly there in the Talmud, but entirely meaningless. Those passages were written during the crusades when severe oppression of non-Christians led to an expected reaction from the rabbis who wanted to preserve any cultural and religious tradition that they possibly could. They resorted to whatever means at their disposal, including branding friendly surrounding non-jewish communities as non-human. It really is no different than some present day HBD'ers decrying the mixing of races (search the pages of UR, you cannot miss them. At least the rabbis in those days were trying to prevent a complete assimilation of the Jewish peoples!). Also the fact of the matter is, a great many Talmudic principles were written exclusively for Jews and did not apply to others.

    the term 'Goy' (singular) or 'Goyim' plural as applied throughout the received interpretation of the Sh'mot, Va'ikra, D'Varim and basically the exegesis of Tanakh, is that of 'Citizen' or 'Citizens' as distinct from the 'Yehud' and 'Yehudim' who typically were not citizens!

    This rubbish that is getting some circulation here at the UR, and other internet venues, is the result of the actions of a very small minority of creatures in the WB and those who would jump at the opportunity to discredit the much larger modern Jewish community. I can't tell you how stupid the use of these midrashim are, with or without any modernist layering, simply by observing other halachic laws that go squarely against any interpretation of 'Goyim' as 'cattle'! For example in Jewish laws of matrimony and extra-matrimonial relationships, if a Jewish woman bears the illegitimate child from another Jewish man, then the child - a mamzer - is not considered a part of the community, whereas if the child is sired by a 'Goy' then he/she is considered a Jew! Do you see the inherent inconsistency of that rendition of the law with the identification Goyim as beasts?!!!

    Let put an end to this deleterious nonsense, at least amongst us, the civilised and educated lot shall we?

    So, passages of the type listed above are certainly there in the Talmud, but entirely meaningless.

    Thanks for the response, Sam.

    One observation. You do remember how the Zionists demanded that every single objectionable word in Palestinian school books, among other documents, be expurgated. Would you be averse to the same demand being made by the Palestinians – i.e., that the same policy should be applied reciprocally?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    I was not aware of it, but would not be surprised. Do you have a link?
  225. Sam Shama says:
    @geokat62

    So, passages of the type listed above are certainly there in the Talmud, but entirely meaningless.
     
    Thanks for the response, Sam.

    One observation. You do remember how the Zionists demanded that every single objectionable word in Palestinian school books, among other documents, be expurgated. Would you be averse to the same demand being made by the Palestinians - i.e., that the same policy should be applied reciprocally?

    I was not aware of it, but would not be surprised. Do you have a link?

    Read More
    • Replies: @geokat62
    Here you go:

    http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=713
  226. geokat62 says:
    @Sam Shama
    I was not aware of it, but would not be surprised. Do you have a link?
    Read More
    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    Thanks. No objections - none at all - to PA examining Israeli textbooks. I am quite sure that the secular schools inside the Green Line are propaganda free, whereas the WB schools are quite likely the very opposite.
  227. Sam Shama says:
    @geokat62
    Here you go:

    http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=713

    Thanks. No objections – none at all – to PA examining Israeli textbooks. I am quite sure that the secular schools inside the Green Line are propaganda free, whereas the WB schools are quite likely the very opposite.

    Read More
    • Replies: @RobinG
    Sam, I doubt that Nurit would agree with you about the propaganda in school texts.

    Palestine in Israeli School Books: Nurit Peled-Elhanan
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWKPRC-_oSg

    Palestine in Israeli School Books: Ideology and Propaganda in Education
    http://www.amazon.com/Palestine-Israeli-School-Books-Propaganda/dp/1845118138

    I don't have contact info for Nurit, but I'm sure you could reach her by replying to her brother's blog. http://mikopeled.com/2015/10/28/israeli-cruelty-and-stupidity-know-no-limits-by-miko-peled/
  228. RobinG says:
    @Sam Shama
    Thanks. No objections - none at all - to PA examining Israeli textbooks. I am quite sure that the secular schools inside the Green Line are propaganda free, whereas the WB schools are quite likely the very opposite.

    Sam, I doubt that Nurit would agree with you about the propaganda in school texts.

    Palestine in Israeli School Books: Nurit Peled-Elhanan

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWKPRC-_oSg

    Palestine in Israeli School Books: Ideology and Propaganda in Education

    http://www.amazon.com/Palestine-Israeli-School-Books-Propaganda/dp/1845118138

    I don’t have contact info for Nurit, but I’m sure you could reach her by replying to her brother’s blog. http://mikopeled.com/2015/10/28/israeli-cruelty-and-stupidity-know-no-limits-by-miko-peled/

    Read More
    • Replies: @geokat62

    Sam, I doubt that Nurit would agree with you about the propaganda in school texts.
     
    Robin, first off, thanks for sharing the Nurit video. It was very informative. I wasn't aware of the extent to which Jewish school texts were propagandized. I also am very impressed with Nurit Peled-Elhanan. She is another true humanitarian in the long list of Jewish humanitarians. What a lovely lady.

    Sam, for someone as well informed as yourself, with that +7σ IQ, not sure why you would say "I am quite sure that the secular schools inside the Green Line are propaganda free,..."

    I keep on wanting to believe you are just as much a true humanitarian as Nurit et al, but, because of some of these statements you make, I still have my doubts.

    P.S. Leading members of the George W Bush administration along with Blair and the leading neocons/Israel firsters must be brought to justice. The names of the leading neocon/Israel firsters figures are:

    Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle, Douglas Feith, Lewis Scooter Libby, Michael Ledeen, The Kagan clan, including Victoria Nudelman, The Kristol clan, The Podhoretz clan, John Hagee, Pat Robertson, Elliot Abrams, Eliot A. Cohen, Charles Krauthammer, David Frum, John Bolton, Jennifer Rubin, Joshua Muravchik, Michael Rubin, Daniel Pipes, Marc Grossman, James Woolsey, Michael Chertoff, Rudy Giuliani, Newt Gingrich.
  229. RobinG says:
    @Sam Shama
    geo,

    The short and truthful answer to this inquiry is : yes and no, with a heavy emphasis on the 'no'.

    The Midrashim, from which the above section is claimed to be lifted, are critical discussions and interpretations of the Torah principally, and more generally of the Tanakh = Torah + Ne'vi'im + K'tuvim (the Teachings + the Prophets + Writings).

    The first thing I must tell you about the Talmud, which is the entire legalistic codification of the Oral tradition of the Torah (called the Halakha), plus the discussion and debates on those codifications, is that it is HUGE (more than 6000 pages) : No one I believe can derive an unambiguous meaning from a linear reading (i.e., from page 1 to page 6000). Not because it is meant to confuse, but because it is an unplanned collection over many centuries.

    If we had collected all the laws, rules and traditions, of say, England, from its Germanic antiquity, to the Crusades, to the Conqueror to Henry the VIII to Elizabeth and stretching all the way to the present set of civil (common) and corporate laws, we would essentially be dealing with an unwieldy, internally inconsistent and in the end mostly useless document. Mostly useless that is, unless a body of logical principles that harnessed it over the chronology.

    In the case of the Talmud, this harnessing instrument is the insertion of the 71 Sanhedrin , judges, who are charged with interpreting, validating and rejecting particular uses of laws and traditions in the context of the present.

    So, passages of the type listed above are certainly there in the Talmud, but entirely meaningless. Those passages were written during the crusades when severe oppression of non-Christians led to an expected reaction from the rabbis who wanted to preserve any cultural and religious tradition that they possibly could. They resorted to whatever means at their disposal, including branding friendly surrounding non-jewish communities as non-human. It really is no different than some present day HBD'ers decrying the mixing of races (search the pages of UR, you cannot miss them. At least the rabbis in those days were trying to prevent a complete assimilation of the Jewish peoples!). Also the fact of the matter is, a great many Talmudic principles were written exclusively for Jews and did not apply to others.

    the term 'Goy' (singular) or 'Goyim' plural as applied throughout the received interpretation of the Sh'mot, Va'ikra, D'Varim and basically the exegesis of Tanakh, is that of 'Citizen' or 'Citizens' as distinct from the 'Yehud' and 'Yehudim' who typically were not citizens!

    This rubbish that is getting some circulation here at the UR, and other internet venues, is the result of the actions of a very small minority of creatures in the WB and those who would jump at the opportunity to discredit the much larger modern Jewish community. I can't tell you how stupid the use of these midrashim are, with or without any modernist layering, simply by observing other halachic laws that go squarely against any interpretation of 'Goyim' as 'cattle'! For example in Jewish laws of matrimony and extra-matrimonial relationships, if a Jewish woman bears the illegitimate child from another Jewish man, then the child - a mamzer - is not considered a part of the community, whereas if the child is sired by a 'Goy' then he/she is considered a Jew! Do you see the inherent inconsistency of that rendition of the law with the identification Goyim as beasts?!!!

    Let put an end to this deleterious nonsense, at least amongst us, the civilised and educated lot shall we?

    Sam,

    Thanks for sharing so much. One question, do you know why it is that (maybe the True Torah) definitely the NK denounce and reject the Talmud?

    And also, about Britain, isn’t it true that they also have no constitution, but rather a common law and accumulated rights? Is this equivalent to Israel’s basic law?

    Read More
  230. geokat62 says:
    @Philip Giraldi
    Thanks geo - I will pass your message on to the technical department!

    Hi, Phil. Any news? I noticed that another commenter, just a few moments ago, indicated that the edit function was still disabled. So it appears that this is impacting more than just me.

    Thanks.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Philip Giraldi
    The site is having problems because of changes in the software - Ron Unz is working on it!
  231. geokat62 says:
    @RobinG
    Sam, I doubt that Nurit would agree with you about the propaganda in school texts.

    Palestine in Israeli School Books: Nurit Peled-Elhanan
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWKPRC-_oSg

    Palestine in Israeli School Books: Ideology and Propaganda in Education
    http://www.amazon.com/Palestine-Israeli-School-Books-Propaganda/dp/1845118138

    I don't have contact info for Nurit, but I'm sure you could reach her by replying to her brother's blog. http://mikopeled.com/2015/10/28/israeli-cruelty-and-stupidity-know-no-limits-by-miko-peled/

    Sam, I doubt that Nurit would agree with you about the propaganda in school texts.

    Robin, first off, thanks for sharing the Nurit video. It was very informative. I wasn’t aware of the extent to which Jewish school texts were propagandized. I also am very impressed with Nurit Peled-Elhanan. She is another true humanitarian in the long list of Jewish humanitarians. What a lovely lady.

    Sam, for someone as well informed as yourself, with that +7σ IQ, not sure why you would say “I am quite sure that the secular schools inside the Green Line are propaganda free,…”

    I keep on wanting to believe you are just as much a true humanitarian as Nurit et al, but, because of some of these statements you make, I still have my doubts.

    P.S. Leading members of the George W Bush administration along with Blair and the leading neocons/Israel firsters must be brought to justice. The names of the leading neocon/Israel firsters figures are:

    Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle, Douglas Feith, Lewis Scooter Libby, Michael Ledeen, The Kagan clan, including Victoria Nudelman, The Kristol clan, The Podhoretz clan, John Hagee, Pat Robertson, Elliot Abrams, Eliot A. Cohen, Charles Krauthammer, David Frum, John Bolton, Jennifer Rubin, Joshua Muravchik, Michael Rubin, Daniel Pipes, Marc Grossman, James Woolsey, Michael Chertoff, Rudy Giuliani, Newt Gingrich.

    Read More
    • Replies: @geokat62
    Speaking of humanitarians, I came across this article in Haaretz:

    A new video starring Roger Waters and other U.S. artists is calling for a cultural boycott of Israel.

    http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.687427

    This is my favourite quote:

    "Palestinians are not asking you to save them," they wrote in the piece. "By calling for a boycott of Israel, they are only asking you not to help Israel oppress them."
  232. @geokat62
    Hi, Phil. Any news? I noticed that another commenter, just a few moments ago, indicated that the edit function was still disabled. So it appears that this is impacting more than just me.

    Thanks.

    The site is having problems because of changes in the software – Ron Unz is working on it!

    Read More
    • Replies: @geokat62
    Thanks, Phil... appreciate it.
    , @RobinG
    Preview has worked perfectly for me.
  233. geokat62 says:
    @Philip Giraldi
    The site is having problems because of changes in the software - Ron Unz is working on it!

    Thanks, Phil… appreciate it.

    Read More
  234. RobinG says:
    @Philip Giraldi
    The site is having problems because of changes in the software - Ron Unz is working on it!

    Preview has worked perfectly for me.

    Read More
    • Replies: @geokat62
    Can you use all the features (edit, block-quote, bold, etc.) in preview mode?
  235. geokat62 says:
    @RobinG
    Preview has worked perfectly for me.

    Can you use all the features (edit, block-quote, bold, etc.) in preview mode?

    Read More
  236. RobinG says:

    “Can you use all the features (edit, block-quote, bold, etc.) in preview mode?”

    Yes, except I don’t know what “edit” is. There is no tab for that. I just insert my cursor and make changes in original the text.

    BTW, that’s what I did before I discovered Preview. Don’t people re-read before they Publish? (Obviously not, judging from all the mistakes.)

    Read More
  237. geokat62 says:
    @geokat62

    Sam, I doubt that Nurit would agree with you about the propaganda in school texts.
     
    Robin, first off, thanks for sharing the Nurit video. It was very informative. I wasn't aware of the extent to which Jewish school texts were propagandized. I also am very impressed with Nurit Peled-Elhanan. She is another true humanitarian in the long list of Jewish humanitarians. What a lovely lady.

    Sam, for someone as well informed as yourself, with that +7σ IQ, not sure why you would say "I am quite sure that the secular schools inside the Green Line are propaganda free,..."

    I keep on wanting to believe you are just as much a true humanitarian as Nurit et al, but, because of some of these statements you make, I still have my doubts.

    P.S. Leading members of the George W Bush administration along with Blair and the leading neocons/Israel firsters must be brought to justice. The names of the leading neocon/Israel firsters figures are:

    Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle, Douglas Feith, Lewis Scooter Libby, Michael Ledeen, The Kagan clan, including Victoria Nudelman, The Kristol clan, The Podhoretz clan, John Hagee, Pat Robertson, Elliot Abrams, Eliot A. Cohen, Charles Krauthammer, David Frum, John Bolton, Jennifer Rubin, Joshua Muravchik, Michael Rubin, Daniel Pipes, Marc Grossman, James Woolsey, Michael Chertoff, Rudy Giuliani, Newt Gingrich.

    Speaking of humanitarians, I came across this article in Haaretz:

    A new video starring Roger Waters and other U.S. artists is calling for a cultural boycott of Israel.

    http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.687427

    This is my favourite quote:

    “Palestinians are not asking you to save them,” they wrote in the piece. “By calling for a boycott of Israel, they are only asking you not to help Israel oppress them.”