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“You Don’t See Them…They See You!

“This is not good!” cautions a new Lebanese friend in a stern tone of warning, clutching this reporters arm for emphasis. “This, where you are going.. it is their neighbourhood… Hizbullah’s neighbourhood. They control this completely!”

Protesting that this quest is well-intentioned, no secret and no threat, this friend provides probably the most important council, and most accurate statement, in properly understanding today’s modern Hizbullah.

“You do not understand well about Hizbullah,” he says, the seriousness of his face indicating his sincerity. “You do not see Hizbullah… they see you!”

His caution and commentary prove to be a very accurate description of today’s Hizbullah. The western media would have those reading about today’s Lebanon from a distance believe that Hizbullah is only a fighting force and therefore easily identifiable in a uniform such as with their invited presence in Syria. The reality is that today within Lebanon, Hizbullah is an army of the people, by the people, and for the people. These people are doctors, teachers, accountants, taxi drivers, shopkeepers, manual labourers and all other professions, but their common denominator is their love of their homeland. And defend it again they will, leaving their clinics, desks, chalkboards, cars, shops or shovels behind the moment Lebanon is attached again.

Almost exclusively western media minimizes the complete reality by reporting only on Hizbullah’s military wing, Al Moqawama al Islamia (The Islamic Resistance). Since the 2006 war, when Hizbullah (phonetically spelt ‘Hezbollah’ in the west) successfully defended the country from a third Israeli invasion of its southern border, much about the rise of this deliberately managed organization, now firmly entrenched in Lebanese society, has changed dramatically.

Information that belies the usual narrative about this Lebanese nationalist political, social and military group, Hizbullah, is as hard to obtain as is an interview with one of their soldiers. The western press, of course, routinely demonizes this organization’s defensive and socially important new political philosophy- one that in a post-war decade has increasingly provided much-needed benefits- beyond defence- to most of Lebanon and its people.

“Hello?” suddenly came the cryptic one-word text, suddenly appearing on this reporter’s phone after returning from a very long day gaining access to the highly militarized Lebanese/ Israeli border.

“May I help you?” was typed back in cautious reply.

One minute…two, three. then, “We have mutual friends. Would you like to meet? 10:30 tomorrow? Electricite du Liban building.”

There are rare moments that one lives for when reporting on-scene in other countries, and… opportunity rarely knocks twice. Taking an educated guess at the origin of these texts- after a week of trying to meet with Hizbullah officials- and realizing the likely value of this offer, the unknown appointment is confirmed with a simple, “OK.”

Hizbullah was born of a need for a defence against invasion by foreign armies, its roots steeped in the social uprising of the Lebanese Shi’a community in the late 1960′s and early 70′s. This fight against internal turmoil in Lebanon was the inspiration for the religious cleric, Imam Musa Sadr, who “disappeared” under mysterious circumstances in Libya in 1978. Sadr accurately called his fledgeling resistance the Movement of the Deprived (Harakat al-Mahrumin). Divisive Lebanese politics and a 15-year (1975-1990) civil war spawned by the Israelis who pitted the Christian militias and the Syrians against the Muslim Lebanese created, as intended, a fractured country fighting each other in the streets for more than a decade. During this incursion, the Israeli invasion of 1982 provided a catalyst for further Shiite radicalism manifesting in the form of a return to pure Lebanese nationalism. Thus, Hizbullah emerged with the aim of expelling the foreign combatants and alleviating the continued social sufferings of the Shi’a community.

These goals have greatly expanded since.

Hizbullah revealed: Of wars past…and future?

It’s 10:28 AM. The Electricite du Liban building takes up a whole city block, ringed by a ten-foot-tall yellow steel fence with military guards posted, standing armed on either side of their squad car blocking the one entrance. Approaching quickly down Gouraud street, apparently now having been recognized, a nearby car waves from the window. How I am recognized is a mystery. Waving back, I round the back end of a late model white Toyota SUV. Getting in I shake hands, identify myself with the driver who immediately pulls out and heads for a coffee shop by the bay just south of Beirut harbour. “See that spot?” asks the driver, pointing out the window as we pass a rather smallish pristine mosque that sits on the edge of the bay, “That is the where [former Prime Minister, Rafic] Hariri was killed in a car bombing in 2004.” The mosque, not surprisingly, is called the Hariri Mosque.

Twenty long minutes later, now sitting in the quiet back corner, sipping a coffee and a mocha respectively, I get to know the man who has asked me here to his company. He introduces himself as Hadi. Polished bald head, thick black drooping moustache over a cropped greying goatee and probing eyes inspect me as Hadi does all the talking. He has many points that he wants to make clear. I am listening … and scribbling furiously.

Hizbullah Spiritual Leader Hassan Nasrallah
Hizbullah Spiritual Leader Hassan Nasrallah

Indeed the military wing is now far more organized and prepared for defence than before the 2006 war, however, Hizbullah’s persona under the direction of their spiritual and political leader, Sheikh Sa’id Hassan Nasrallah has also dramatically changed. There is a moral, disciplined side to the militia that comes from the overlying Shi’a religious doctrine espoused by Nasrallah, that now accepts all religions, but with a firm grasp on professional, ethical performance of its military duties…only when necessary.

Hadi fought in the 2006 war and has the scars to prove it. He points to an eight-inch semi-circular line on the right side of his head just above the ear. “An Israeli rocket…it barely missed. I was blown into some big trees over fifty feet away,” he explains. “I was unconscious for two weeks… in the hospital for two months.”

Like many involved with modern Hizbullah, Hadi is a businessman who is daily in the tourism business. He has a family. He wants peace. He wanted peace in 2006. He wants peace now. But, he is emphatic that war has been brought to Lebanon despite the peaceful desire of the nation. Hadi does not think Israel will attack again, which is a strange comment considering our discussion. He feels that a new generation of Israelis will reject new war and that Israel is slowly changing away from a focus on Lebanon. However, he is just as adamant that Lebanon and Hizbullah are ready to defend Lebanon once again.

Comparisons to ISIS/ Daesh are ridiculous, which is almost exclusively a radical fringe element of the Sunni Muslims. Hizbullah is predominantly Shi’a but far more inclusive. Extrajudicial executions are forbidden and proper military protocol and respect for the authority of its commanders are mandated. Here, within a religion that values education and tolerance this developing defensive militia wishes to showcase itself to all Lebanese, and a jaundiced western press, as an example worthy of additional participation and worldwide support. In a postwar decade, it has developed the tools to do so.

Approaching The Israeli/Lebanon Border
Approaching The Israeli/Lebanon Border

Hadi was living in a small town within 500 meters of the fenced-off Lebanon/ Israeli border when the 2006 fighting started. Like every house in the area, his was completely destroyed as were those of his neighbours. Here he dispels the narrative that Hizbullah, as a separate Lebanese defensive force, was doing all the fighting. “We fought. I fought. Everybody fought! Children took up weapons… what choice did we have then?” Here, Hadi puts down his coffee, moving to the front of his chair to emphasize his point. “You must understand,” and now he lowers his voice… “…within days we had lost everything. We were literally fighting only for country… our country… and our own lives!”

Hadi is direct and chooses his words carefully in perfect English. He repeats that the 2006 war could have been avoided. He expands on the July 12, 2006, kidnapping of two Israeli soldiers Ehud Goldwasser and Eldad Regev who were taken to effect a pre-negotiated prisoner swap to secure the release of 1050 Hizbullah soldiers and political prisoners from Israeli jails. Of particular interest to Hizbollah was Samim Al Kintar who had been arrested and in an Israeli prison since 1975. Hadi insists that in the many months before the war the Israeli Government of Ehud Olmert had approved the prisoner swap negotiations… and then stalled repeatedly. Hizbullah obviously had every reason to follow through with the agreement. “They stalled because the Olmert government was getting strong resistance [to the agreement] in the Knesset,” Hadi commented. “Hizbullah was ready for many months. The kidnapping was a result of these delays that violated a finalized agreement. The media ignored the agreement completely to blame Hizbullah without revealing this connection. This was not true!”

In 2006 Hizbullah was an amalgam of area citizens using any weapon available and trained fighters using prepared defensive tactics and advanced weapons. Hadi talks about their only countering against military targets within Lebanon, particularly tanks. Not civilian targets. Using the Russian made 9M 133 Kornet anti-tank rocket to fight back, the Israelis lost 43 tanks the first day and 65 on the second; a reversal of fortune not anticipated by the IDF. By day twenty, Israel had no heavy armour operational north of their own border. This is when the Israeli tactics were changed to openly destroying as much of southern Lebanon’s public infrastructure as possible. And this they did, resulting in a huge loss of civilian life particularly women and children.

Then, the fortunes of war suddenly changed.

As the border clash continued, without the cover of their tanks the IDF infantry was reduced to a ground firefight on unfamiliar territory in the steep southern hills and the going was slow and rough… and deadly. Although casualty figures are highly propagandized, correctly Hadi notes that Israel lost approx. 400 IDF soldiers but few civilians because Hizbullah did not specifically target Israeli citizens. However, on the Lebanese side over 1300 were killed- mostly civilian primarily due to the IDF shifting tactics to civilian targets once bogged down and taking heavy fire at the border.

Then the unthinkable happened… Israel began to run out of ammo.

Although Hizbullah does not reveal troop strength in numbers it is universally considered to be the largest non-state military in the world and considerably stronger than the Lebanese army. Estimates indicate at least 20,000 professionally trained soldiers and 25,000 civilian militia fighters are maintained, however, this is a very low-ball estimate considering that US military estimates for the Syrian based Hizbullah units are currently 60,000 and that, with western Syria back under Assad’s control, most of these battle-hardened troops will be returning home soon. Whatever Hizbullah’s military may have been before the Syrian war, it is unquestionable that it is currently far better manned, armed, supplied, and trained than ever before.

Regarding new weapons, Hizbullah did not previously have heavy armour, tanks, anti-aircraft or anti-ship missiles, however, because of Syria being littered with American, British, Russian and Israeli made armaments, their current arsenal is projected to be extremely large and diverse. Although weapons depots are kept well stocked in many highly secret locations across Lebanon, intelligence sources say that other re-supply depots sit just across the Syrian border under joint protection with the Syrian army that, due to Hizbullah’s help in fighting the US-inspired invasion there, is firmly supportive. Further, the Assad government owes Hizbullah a debt of gratitude for helping turn the tide in Syria west of the Euphrates River. In doing this, it not only aided Assad but also created a defensive barrier in Syria that defends Lebanon to the east as well.

“Did you know that Assad was given three choices before the war started seven years ago?” asked Hadi, knowing that this is news. “First, he was offered $15 billion to leave Syria unconditionally. Second, he was offered $15 billion to stay if he would support the upcoming pipeline and release control of the one Russian navy base and two airports. But third was the threat…take either option or $15 billion will be spent to defeat you.”

This info. has been difficult to confirm, but has the strong ring of truth applied to the US-backed overthrow of the Ukrainian gov’t and its publicly stated assurance of $5 billion for that particular overthrow. Obviously, Assad did not choose the first two options. The results of that decision are indisputable and a now matter of history.

Hadi correctly notes that, with Israel low on ammo, new supplies were flown in from the US using Qatar as an intermediary, thus providing the Americans cover for their resupply effort-and the semblance of neutrality. At the same time, the IDF was taking a beating on the ground and in the press. The cost to date of the war on the Israeli side was also released: $3.5 billion, including losses in Gross Domestic Product, and in tourism and, a quarter of the businesses in northern Israel were at risk of bankruptcy. The Israeli Chamber of Commerce said their lost revenues totalled an additional $1.4 billion dollars.

At the same time, Israel had put in place a complete blockade of the Lebanese coastline and harbours and airspace to any airport thus taking away all resupply of the Lebanese resistance. Unlike the military arrogance of the IDF, Hizbullah had marshalled its resources wisely. The main problem being a lack of medical supplies that were banned from delivery by the US allies and contributed directly to the rising death toll as doctor’s also fought just as valiantly to save lives with what little they had to work with.

Three weeks in and the IDF was still mired less than twenty miles from the original border. The cost-benefit ratio was rising directly proportionally to the Israeli public and world outrage at Olmert’s blunder and his IDF general’s poor planning.

Of Power, Money, and… the People.

With the last shot of the 2006 war fired and the IDF moving back into Israel, Lebanon began to heal its wounds. At the same time, Hizbullah, that had so successfully turned back the tides of war, began to rebuild- this time in new ways.

The Hizbullah Flag Line The Highways Heading North into Sidon
The Hizbullah Flag Line The Highways Heading North into Sidon

Using the respect it had gained by fighting for all of Lebanon, while the Lebanese army looked on from safe havens to the north, Hizbullah began the decade-long process of moving from purely a defensive military to a full faceted political organization. Leader Nasrallah has been consistent, methodical and unwavering in these nationalist goals and by doing so has dragged the previously western aligned Lebanese political parties into having to similarly support their country first or die at the ballot box. All signs point to resounding success.

The memory of the 2006 war- and its resulting horrors- lives on daily in the minds of all, here. However, without exception, the dozens of Lebanese interviewed for this article made it very clear that they want peace above all else. However, a thorough understanding of Israeli expansionism- past and present- temper their optimism.

Beyond an improved military, the fundamental change has been in the area of access to public social services, once substantially missing under the pre-2006 Lebanese government. During and after the 1975-90 civil war, the Lebanese central government of that time neglected service provisions for the public. Municipal elections were not held for 35 years, and thus the municipalities’ human, financial and technical capacities deteriorated, rendering them mere skeleton institutions. In a parliament that has too often in the past echoed the false western model of democracy in that it ignores the true interests of those that did cast votes in their favour, here in Lebanon it is Hizbullah that is unwavering in directly representing all Lebanese regardless of religion or former nationality.

Hizbullah runs a range of philanthropic and commercial activities including hospitals, medical centres, schools, orphanages, rehabilitation centres for the handicapped, supermarkets, gas stations, construction companies, a radio station (Nur) and public service television station (Al Manar). Health care is now universal and heavily subsidized, if not free. These services directly benefited the Lebanese who desperately needed these improvements and has also been the direct reflection of the past Lebanese government and its previous unwillingness to provide these services.

Asked about the religious influence of Hizbullah within its philosophy of this nationalism, Hadi commented, “This is part of the reason. Lebanon has always been a country of many cultures and many religions,” he begins. “The big difference is that the majority of Hizbullah, like Nasrallah, are Shi’a. We believe in education. We believe in tolerance for other cultures and religions. We include them!” Again he moves closer to make his point clear… “The Sunni culture does not include and tolerate. It does not promote education. When we fought in the war, Shia fought alongside Sunni… alongside Christians…alongside Druze. We all fought for this freedom and a free Lebanon. We fought for each other and did not care about religion. Lebanon is not…” and here Hadi stabs his index finger squarely into the table. “… Lebanon is not Saudi Arabia!”

The Iranian Connection
The Iranian Connection

While some of this social service infrastructure was in place in 2006, the fundamental change was in the area of inclusion. Being a Shi’a fundamentalist group, before the war, its public services, which are primarily funded with a $1.2 Billion annual contribution by Shi’a Iran, were restricted dramatically to those of similar faith. When war came again, Hizbullah opened up its hospitals to all Lebanese as the casualty figures continued to mount. Here, Hizbollah quickly endeared itself to all religions and to the all Lebanese. This change to inclusion continued into other social improvements.

According to Hadi, while Israel used the first UN cease-fire to remove the evidence of their defeat- the burned-out wreckage of almost two hundred tanks- out of view and back over the hills into Israel, the Lebanese documented the massive problems of restoring a deliberately destroyed infrastructure; roads, dams, electrical generation stations, bridges, airfields, the port and harbour, government buildings and hospitals.

Within its defence against future attack, Hezbollah has undertaken military resistance and healthcare and social-service activities with equal zeal. In 1996, Israel again attacked southern Lebanon, causing a great deal of damage to infrastructure. After this attack, Hezbollah began the process of reconstruction. Its statistics show that, in two months, it rebuilt 5,000 homes in 82 villages, repaired roads and infrastructure, and paid compensation to 2,300 farmers. As a result of these activities, Hezbollah was rewarded with more support from Shiites, who offered their votes to members running for parliament.

Later, in 2006, Hizbullah’s health and social services occupied a central role in the defence against Israel and in the aftermath of the war. Following the thirty-four day Israeli bombardment, Hizbullah’s first action was to stop its military efforts and divert all its energy toward social services and reconstruction. Hezbollah provided displaced people with water, food and shelter, and also promised to pay compensation to people whose houses had been destroyed, offering $12,000 for rent and furniture until homes were reconstructed. These activities have increased the public confidence in Hezbollah, but they constitute only a small part of the party’s social services.

Postwar, Nasrallah recognized the benefits that these services provided to his shift into becoming a formal political party. This contributed to an increasingly political presence and shamed the Lebanese parliament into increasing national funding for similar public improvements in order to counter the growing popularity of its new parliamentary rival. Today, Hizbullah can no longer be so easily dismissed by the West as merely a “Terrorist Organization”- a moniker no longer accepted by the European Union and the more rational nations of the world, despite US insistence.

In endearing itself to the Lebanese public as a whole, Hezbollah has developed a highly organized system of health and social-service organizations. The service system is made up of the Social Unit; the Education Unit; and the Islamic Health Unit, which together make up its network of national service providers. Before 2006, many of Hezbollah’s service organizations were legally registered with the Lebanese government as NGOs, a status that provided certain legal protections and helped its collaboration with other organizations that were predisposed against the “Hezbollah” name. Due to its rise in formal and respectable political power this facade is no longer necessary.

The Social Unit is an umbrella for four organizations: the Jihad Construction Foundation; the Martyrs’ Foundation; the Foundation for the Wounded; and the Khomeini Support Committee. The post-war Jihad Construction Foundation, Jihad El Binaa, became one of the most important services in Lebanon. Prior, this institution was responsible for infrastructure construction and delivered water to about 45 percent of the residents of Beirut’s southern suburb. Following the Israeli aerial bombardment of Lebanon in summer 2006, the Jihad Construction Foundation became indispensable, assessing damage and paying reconstruction compensation to residents of southern Lebanon and Beirut’s southern suburb.

In turn, the Martyr’s Foundation provides continued financial assistance for those families who lost relatives in the war as does the Foundation for the Wounded for the disabled. Combined, these three financial programs have given assurance to Lebanese that they can expect the same support should Lebanon be attacked again.

Hezbollah’s Islamic Health Unit also has a vital function in meeting public health needs. As of 2007, it operated three hospitals, twelve health centres, twenty infirmaries, and twenty dental clinics. The Islamic Health unit became so effective that it was asked to assume the operation of several government hospitals in Southern Lebanon and the Bekaa Valley. This unit provides health care to low-income populations at little or no cost. Additionally, the Islamic Health unit is involved in offering free health insurance and prescription-drug coverage through a network of local pharmacies. To examine this claim I ask my driver and translator, Kifah, who is about to have his second child- a boy- if this applies to him since he and his wife are not Shi’a; they are Druze. He admits that his wife’s work for a local medical centre is of an extra benefit but confirms, “Yes, for us we pay nothing. This is the same for most of the Lebanese people, except for some who have money. Those must pay something. For everyone else it is free.”

Hezbullah’s Educational Unit also provided much-needed services particularly in the area of Education. Prior to 2000 primary and secondary schooling was considered to be very poor, with the exception of privates schools which were well beyond the financial means of most. Hizbullah began to operate its own network of schools which charged a modest fee to Shi’a. The end result was that via this example the Lebanese government followed suit and primary and secondary education is now universal and free.

Hizbullah still operates its own schools and reportedly serves over 14,000 students while also providing for libraries, scholarships, and financial assistance for books, which it buys in bulk and distributes at cost. Hizbullah’s improvements in education go along way in a population that has a large Shi’a base and that highly values education within the tenants of their religion.

In today’s Lebanon, Hizbullah uses its military successes, its social infrastructure improvements and a professional media presence to present to its public and the world a viable governmental alternative within the parliament and at the ballot box. Not surprisingly, its national popularity continues to grow. Currently, Hizbullah holds twelve of the 128 parliamentary seats available to Muslim political parties, but via the recent March 8 Coalition has fifty-seven seats under its influence. Further, it holds increased power via two of the three very powerful Cabinet positions. With the first national election in nine years tentatively set for May 7, 2018, it is likely that its share of power will increase.

The current Lebanese parliamentary structure is a result of the negotiations that ended the Civil War. A unique feature of the Lebanese parliament is the principle of “confessional distribution.” Prior, during elections held between 1932 and 1972, seats were apportioned between Christians and Muslims in a 6:5 ratio. By the 1960s, Muslims had become openly resistant to this system. Postwar, The Taif Agreement of 1989, which effectively ended the civil war, reapportioned the Parliament to provide for equal representation of Christians and Muslims, with each electing 64 of the 128 deputies. With this, each religious community- Shia, Sunni, Alawite, Christain, Druze and Hizbullah- campaigns for the parliamentary seats. In 1992, Hizbullah participated in Lebanese elections for the first time, winning 12 out of 128 seats in parliament. In 1996, the organization won 10 seats, and in 2000 they took 8.

However, post-2006 war, in the election of 2009 Hizbullah won its twelve seats. With the Israelis keeping the 2006 horrors firmly on the minds of all Lebanese almost weekly in the Arab press, or daily to the east in Syria, it seems safe to say that Hizbullah is not a long shot in gaining a legitimate coalition majority in the May election. For this to happen, it must be because of, not a Shi’a majority, but a Lebanese people’s majority made up of all Muslim religious affiliations as well as Christian. One overriding Constitutional Law makes this indeed possible: Universal suffrage, whereby all voters can vote for any party of their choice, many of whom currently have one foremost political interest: self-preservation.

Hamas Flags Fly Around A Palestinian Refuge Camp in Sidon
Hamas Flags Fly Around A Palestinian Refuge Camp in Sidon

Lebanon is unusual in that its cabinet of three ministers is by law the country’s executive authority, effectively more powerful than the president, prime minister or parliament, which is the body that elects the cabinet to begin with. This means that a coalition of party seats can bring in a Cabinet of their choosing. It is here that the political power of Hizbullah is clearly shown.

To this end, Hizbullah first negotiated the March 14 Alliance between several parties including Christian and Sunni. The result is that in late December 2009 Lebanon’s parliament swore in a new cabinet dominated by Hezbollah. This move provided for the election of two pro- Hizbullah cabinet ministers and next, Hizbullah loyalist, former general Michel Aoun into the office of President. Holding the cabinet majority and the presidency is of no small political value.

However, the office of prime minister has been a rather divisive influence as was shown by Saad Hariri’s (son of the father) breaking ranks from the March 14 Alliance regarding the vote for president Aoun. Hariri, having miscalculated his personal power, finally conceded and endorsed the former general, however, this broke the alliance almost completely.

Most recently, Hariri’s conspicuous exodus to Saudi Arabia and France- and reportedly Iran- has not helped his reputation within the parliament or the people. The alliance of the FPM and Hezbollah has been a new and strengthening coalition that now shows itself as the March 8 coalition of mostly Shi’a parties as a reaction to Hariri’s many perceived defections.

Further, in February 2006, Michel Aoun and Hassan Nasrallah signed a memorandum of understanding that called for a broad range of reforms, such as guaranteeing equal media access for candidates and allowing expatriate voting. This was an attempt to thwart the existing Hariri-Jumblatt coalition’s grip on power. The FPM-Hezbollah memorandum met with virtually unanimous consent in the Shiite community and is certainly a strong indication of Hizbullah’s political savvy. Further, according to a poll by the Beirut Center for Research and Information, 77% also approved of this within the Christian community. With just a few months before the new election, this cross-religious support is an indication of the likely result at the ballot box.

Lebanon Today: Of the People… by the People…for the People!

Hizbullah as a military unit no longer maintains a rivalry and autonomy from the Lebanese army. Hadi points out that Hassan Nasrallah has publicly announced his support for the army and of parliament. Considering the very large Lebanese army presence across Beirut concentrating near the southern border, this makes for a stronger deterrent. Hadi confirms that in terms of tactics, munitions, supply and command Hizbullah remains independent, but that if Lebanon is attacked again both militaries will communicate on strategy and share intelligence. Neither occurred in 2006.

Hadi, like the dozens of people, interviewed in Beirut and across Lebanon, desire peace. Sadly, they know that war has never been up to them. War since 1963 has always been brought to their land, and barely turned back each time. Even the purported civil war was manufactured externally and then left to boil over on the streets of every town; particularly Beirut. Hadi points out the similarities to what has happened in nearby Syria, despite the fact that most Lebanese detest the Syrians for their long-ago role in fomenting that civil war at the behest of the Americans and Israelis.

Hadi’s sentiments were repeated many times with the many people interviewed in the bars, cafes and streets of Beirut and while exploring Lebanon. A reporter with professional intentions has nothing to fear in Lebanon from the people or from Hizbullah. The Palestinian refugee camps are quite another matter and are exceptional dangerous but they are dispersed across Lebanon and quite obvious while guarded by the UN. But, on the southern border, a new war seems to be brewing once again.

Israel has again begun its pre-war rhetoric, clearly stating it will invade again in order to stop the growing Hizbullah military. This, as is the reality of nationalism… ignores what Hizbullah, today, really is. It is not a military. It is not a political party. It is not a socialist movement. Hizbullah is…Lebanon!

In this, lies its true power: The power of its people… and their natural, human desire for freedom from oppression.

Our conversation now winding down, we both stand and with a firm hand shake- a grip that leaves a lasting impression- I look for the last time into the deep hard eyes of a man who has put his faith in his party, in his nation, in his people- and in this reporter- to come together and stop the growing advent of a renewed, tragic war.

“Will you fight again?” is the final question, still hanging in the air.

Releasing my hand, Hadi answers with a more-the most- important question; one that sums up all that we have spoken of during this long enlightening morning over coffee.

Will we have a choice?”

Indeed.

About the Author: Brett Redmayne-Titley has published over 150 in-depth articles over the past seven years for news agencies worldwide. Many have been translated. On-scene reporting from important current events has been an emphasis that has led to multi-part exposes on such topics as the Trans-Pacific Partnership negotiations, NATO summit, KXL Pipeline, Porter Ranch Methane blow-out and many more. He can be reached at: live-on-scene((at)) gmx.com. Prior articles can be viewed at his archive: www.watchingromeburn.uk

 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: Hezbollah, Israel, Lebanon 
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  1. wayfarer says:

    “How Hezbollah Was Able to Win the 2006 War vs Israel”

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    • Replies: @Moi
    They kicked butt!
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  2. Kirt says:

    An excellent article about the most admirable religious/revolutionary/military/political organization that the world has seen in many years. I used to regard Hezbollah as a vicious terrorist organization, but changed my mind when I saw how merciful they were in victory to those who had collaborated with the Israeli occupiers, once they had driven the Israelis from southern Lebanon. My admiration for them has only grown over the years. Unlike virtually every other victorious revolutionary or national liberation movement, they did not demand total power for themselves but modestly agreed to share with partners who included former enemies. Their care for their poor countrymen is as admirable as their willingness to defend the weak.

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  3. utu says:

    Very interesting. One thing however, I do not believe in $15 billions and the pipeline story. The pipeline story as the cause of Syria civil war is true on the same level as Iraq weapons of mass destruction were the cause of war. It is possible that some people in Qatar or Saudi Arabia believed in pipeline just like some people in the US believed that they are going to get oil in Iraq after the war or like some people believed that democracy will be planted in Iraq. These beliefs were very useful to the planners of the war who knew the real objective of the war which was not the oil, democracy or weapons of mass destruction.

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    • Replies: @Zumbuddi
    What WAS and IS the real reason for the war/s?
    , @Al Khiyam
    This pipeline story is definite bunk. What this line of explanation does it let ISRAEL off the hook. Why would Hezbollah do this? Are there secret deals in the background?
    The single biggest success of the post-Iraq War Era was the zionist NEOCONS' erasing from public view- esp alt media- of zionists pivotal, core, SINGLE HANDED authorship of the 911 wars over the last generation justified by WTC attacks in NYC. The liquidation of the truth has gotten so complete that Sen John McCain can pose in Syria with the same AL QAEDA, Inc as attacked US on 911 and NO ONE EVEN MENTIONS IT!

    PNAC, JINSA, AIPAC, "Clean Break Strategy for Securing the Realm", Oded Yinon, Office of Special Plans... The jews' agenda for Eretz Israel has been disappeared from the discussion as has 911 itself. Whereas in Iraq War run-up, even the MSM admitted it. Bomb Iraq? Bad. But bomb the much weaker, far more inoffensive Syria? Good. Explain THAT. Well here goes: The long planned wars to overthrow Israel's rivals in the region benefit ZIONISM so the dual-national leaders of the "peace movement" are keeping their mouths shut, cause their tribe is benefiting from the disintegration of M.E which installs the jewish state as grand Hegemon.
    Why arent the Vets For Peace, all the socialist groups, peaceniks and all the usual anti-imperialist fakes on the Left, protesting the war on Syria? Oddly, its been the traditional reactionary right wing who have demanded an end to these endless phony "humanitarian wars". Not a word out of the Leftist liars. Cause if Assad goes down? Israel seizes the Golan and everything beyond. (If China, Russia, Japan or any other regime is doing what the zionist regime does on a regular basis? OMFG!)
    This article was an adequate summary of academic papers and on-the-ground report. But as usual it completely misses -or again obscures- the entire point of what is really going on in the region and manages to dilute the focus away from the actual zionist perpetrators pulling the strings of destruction in the Levant

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  4. So what if the 2006 war cost Israel 5 billion? Surely the US taxpayer can afford it? Why would anyone question that this is not OK and not merely business as usual?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Monty Ahwazi
    Agreed! Since 2006 Israel has received about $40b tax$ to-date! Israel is actually being rewarded by the US for killing of the innocents or getting their asses kicked in Lebanon!
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  5. Dan Hayes says:

    A very interesting and important viewpoint is ably presented, although it may be slightly lopsided in presenting the Hezbollah viewpoint.

    A minor quibble. The 5 billion referred to by Ms NeoCon, Victoria Nuland, may be the cumulative total since 1991 when the US first started interfering in Ukrainian affairs. Whether the monetary amount was cumulative or one-shot is irrelevant since it still amounts to insidious interference.

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  6. mcohen says:

    10 year wars of attrition

    1996 operation “grapes of wrath”.
    2006 lebanon war.
    2016 syrian war.

    The last war hezb fought in syria has cost them manpower.definitely more killed than past wars.the decision to press the attack after 2006,buoyed by certain successes in that war,in the 10 years up to 2016 ,was a mistake and backfired.the consequences of that strategy are now being realized.the tanks are still there now better equipped with anti missile armament like the trophy system which has proved to be effective.more important both syria and lebanon have lost whatever strategic advantage they gained in the years before 2016.the syrian army has been severely curtailed and the golan heights still remains under israels control.

    Both the usa and israel were wise to stay out of the syrian war because it was without a doubt a trap.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Randal

    Both the usa and israel were wise to stay out of the syrian war
     
    ROFL!

    I was recently accused of over-using the terms "delusion" and "delusional", but...... I rest my case, ffs!
    , @WHAT
    Ah, when there is nothing to say kike will deploy familiar mantras.
    Wake me up when much trumped-up trophy is capable of intercepting a simple tandem launch, or not maiming nearby infantry at least.
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  7. How Sharon created Hezbollah

    Ferdinand Smit, ‘The battle for South Lebanon, The radicalisation of Lebanon’s Shi’ites, 1982-1985’, Amsterdam, 2000

    ‘From Beirut to Jerusalem’, Thomas L Friedman, 1989, New York

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  8. Greg Bacon says: • Website

    By day twenty, Israel had no heavy armour operational north of their own border. This is when the Israeli tactics were changed to openly destroying as much of southern Lebanon’s public infrastructure as possible. And this they did, resulting in a huge loss of civilian life particularly women and children.

    There’s the #1 reason for Hezbollah’s existence; to keep a check on that nation filled with land thieves, assassins and homicidal maniacs, Israel.

    Hezbollah–and the Lebanese–know that if Israel wants to steal their River Litani so Israelis can keep those swimming pools filled and water their lush lawns. They also know that if Israel is ever successful in invading and occupying Lebanon, they’ll get treated like Gazans, with the entire nation turned into one huge concentration camp with the unhinged Israelis brutally killing Lebanese at will and for fun.

    That is why Israel resorts to terror bombing from the air–aided by the Pentagon–to utterly destroy the brave Lebanese people and their nation’s infrastructure, in the hope they’ll give up hope and surrender, but that ain’t going to happen.

    VIVA HIZZBULLAH, VIVA LEBANON!

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    • Agree: Druid
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  9. Randal says:

    A good summary and a useful corrective to the hugely slanted US sphere establishment media coverage.

    “Hello?” suddenly came the cryptic one-word text, suddenly appearing on this reporter’s phone after returning from a very long day gaining access to the highly militarized Lebanese/ Israeli border.

    “May I help you?” was typed back in cautious reply.

    One minute…two, three. then, “We have mutual friends. Would you like to meet? 10:30 tomorrow? Electricite du Liban building.”

    There are rare moments that one lives for when reporting on-scene in other countries, and… opportunity rarely knocks twice. Taking an educated guess at the origin of these texts- after a week of trying to meet with Hizbullah officials- and realizing the likely value of this offer, the unknown appointment is confirmed with a simple, “OK.”

    Respect is due for this kind of journalism, that takes real courage and places you squarely in the opposite corner to the real powers in the world. A dangerous, uncomfortable and uncertain place to be.

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    • Agree: Sollipsist
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  10. Randal says:
    @mcohen
    10 year wars of attrition

    1996 operation "grapes of wrath".
    2006 lebanon war.
    2016 syrian war.

    The last war hezb fought in syria has cost them manpower.definitely more killed than past wars.the decision to press the attack after 2006,buoyed by certain successes in that war,in the 10 years up to 2016 ,was a mistake and backfired.the consequences of that strategy are now being realized.the tanks are still there now better equipped with anti missile armament like the trophy system which has proved to be effective.more important both syria and lebanon have lost whatever strategic advantage they gained in the years before 2016.the syrian army has been severely curtailed and the golan heights still remains under israels control.

    Both the usa and israel were wise to stay out of the syrian war because it was without a doubt a trap.

    Both the usa and israel were wise to stay out of the syrian war

    ROFL!

    I was recently accused of over-using the terms “delusion” and “delusional”, but…… I rest my case, ffs!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
    You beat me to it, Randal.
    , @mcohen
    Don't be silly now.the oil wars are a losing proposition.whats more there is no cost benefits as the debt incurred to pay for them will yield no return as fossil fuels will be phased out in the next 20 years.the only resource in the middle east worth fighting for is water.silly boy ffsb
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  11. Randal says:

    Comparisons to ISIS/ Daesh are ridiculous, which is almost exclusively a radical fringe element of the Sunni Muslims……Today, Hizbullah can no longer be so easily dismissed by the West as merely a “Terrorist Organization”- a moniker no longer accepted by the European Union and the more rational nations of the world, despite US insistence.

    This issue is a very useful practical litmus test for basic competence/honesty on world affairs.

    Those who side with the US/Israeli regimes’ attempts to treat Hezbollah as a “mere terrorist organisation” are either ignorant of reality or are dishonest. It really is as simple as that. The former can potentially be educated, but the latter can only be treated appropriately as liars and propagandists.

    Whatever Hizbullah’s military may have been before the Syrian war, it is unquestionable that it is currently far better manned, armed, supplied, and trained than ever before.

    Regarding new weapons, Hizbullah did not previously have heavy armour, tanks, anti-aircraft or anti-ship missiles, however, because of Syria being littered with American, British, Russian and Israeli made armaments, their current arsenal is projected to be extremely large and diverse. Although weapons depots are kept well stocked in many highly secret locations across Lebanon, intelligence sources say that other re-supply depots sit just across the Syrian border under joint protection with the Syrian army that, due to Hizbullah’s help in fighting the US-inspired invasion there, is firmly supportive. Further, the Assad government owes Hizbullah a debt of gratitude for helping turn the tide in Syria west of the Euphrates River. In doing this, it not only aided Assad but also created a defensive barrier in Syria that defends Lebanon to the east as well.

    This is the situation the US and Israel created for themselves, by their aggressive attempt to regime change Syria for geopolitical objectives.

    Much as the US invasion of Iraq hugely strengthened Iran’s position, so the regime change attempt in Syria has further strengthened Iran and Hezbollah. As for whether the evidently increased military competence of the Syrian Army and structural strength of the Syrian government make up for their direct losses, that’s a tricky judgement. The best (imo, obviously) public summary assessment of the current state of Syria’s military is the following one, at Sic Semper Tyrannis;

    Seven Years into the Civil War: What is left of the “Syrian Arab Army” ?

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  12. Moi says:
    @wayfarer
    “How Hezbollah Was Able to Win the 2006 War vs Israel”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bIt2eblH88

    They kicked butt!

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  13. Hizbollah has never been a ‘terror organization’ or a problem in the Middle East. The leading terror group in this region are the Israeli Terrorist Forces (ITF) that are euphemistically called “Israeli Defense Forces” (IDF) and its paymaster in the US. Since its creation, the Zionist regime has been fucking up the whole Middle East with the consent and massive support of the US.

    This article is the best and most realistic one, which I’ve read so far. The Western media rascals should take this article to heart and stop regurgitating Zionist propaganda about Hizbollah.

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  14. WHAT says:
    @mcohen
    10 year wars of attrition

    1996 operation "grapes of wrath".
    2006 lebanon war.
    2016 syrian war.

    The last war hezb fought in syria has cost them manpower.definitely more killed than past wars.the decision to press the attack after 2006,buoyed by certain successes in that war,in the 10 years up to 2016 ,was a mistake and backfired.the consequences of that strategy are now being realized.the tanks are still there now better equipped with anti missile armament like the trophy system which has proved to be effective.more important both syria and lebanon have lost whatever strategic advantage they gained in the years before 2016.the syrian army has been severely curtailed and the golan heights still remains under israels control.

    Both the usa and israel were wise to stay out of the syrian war because it was without a doubt a trap.

    Ah, when there is nothing to say kike will deploy familiar mantras.
    Wake me up when much trumped-up trophy is capable of intercepting a simple tandem launch, or not maiming nearby infantry at least.

    Read More
    • Replies: @mcohen
    What what

    https://breakingdefense.com/2018/02/261-m1-tanks-getting-trophy-anti-missile-system-as-army-reorients-to-major-wars/

    What Easy to flush out.go away

    https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://breakingdefense.com/2018/03/trophy-aps-the-best-defense-is-shooting-back/&ved=2ahUKEwjstc7kwqDaAhWDnJQKHavjAdMQFjAWegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw1NaDeb2tdN1XxQT-o8Zjt1
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  15. Z-man says:

    Is it Hiz or Hez-bollah?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Brett Redmayne-Titley
    Thanks for you comment. The west has changed the spelling to HEZBULLAH which is the phonetic spelling for easy use. However, the correct spelling- that the organization uses regularly is HIZBULLAH. Thanks. B.R-T.
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  16. mcohen says:
    @WHAT
    Ah, when there is nothing to say kike will deploy familiar mantras.
    Wake me up when much trumped-up trophy is capable of intercepting a simple tandem launch, or not maiming nearby infantry at least.
    Read More
    • Replies: @WHAT
    Advertising pamphlets instead of actually well designed armor, as usual.
    But then again, who even makes tanks fo combat outside of Russia, huh.
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  17. Lebanon Today: Of the People… by the People…for the People!

    USA Today: On the People… in the People… up the People!

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    • LOL: L.K
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  18. Excellent article. People defending their own country, like Hezbollah, are patriots, not terrorists; terrorists are those who–like the IDF–invade and destroy other people’s countries.

    One minor grammar-Nazi correction:

    Hizbullah’s improvements in education go along way in a population that has a large Shi’a base and that highly values education within the tenants of their religion.

    I’m sure he means ‘tenets’ in this context.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Carroll Price
    According to the Western Media, the term terrorist applies to any individual or group who in any form or fashion go about defending themselves from Jewish domination.
    , @Twodees Partain
    "I’m sure he means ‘tenets’ in this context."

    Probably so. Writers are often the victims of their spellcheck and/or autocorrect. One recurring mistake caused by those programs is the use of "lead" instead of "led". Read aloud, it may sound right, but it jumps out when viewed on the page.
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  19. Hezbollah is the defender of Lebanon and the ally of Syria in defending Syria and Christians against the satanic ISIS aka AL CIADA a creation of the U.S. and ISRAEL and BRITAIN.

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  20. WHAT says:
    @mcohen
    What what

    https://breakingdefense.com/2018/02/261-m1-tanks-getting-trophy-anti-missile-system-as-army-reorients-to-major-wars/

    What Easy to flush out.go away

    https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://breakingdefense.com/2018/03/trophy-aps-the-best-defense-is-shooting-back/&ved=2ahUKEwjstc7kwqDaAhWDnJQKHavjAdMQFjAWegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw1NaDeb2tdN1XxQT-o8Zjt1

    Advertising pamphlets instead of actually well designed armor, as usual.
    But then again, who even makes tanks fo combat outside of Russia, huh.

    Read More
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  21. anonymous[274] • Disclaimer says:

    An example of a law of unintended consequences. At the time of the ’82 Israeli invasion of Lebanon many Shia were actually happy to see them come in, hoping that as the strong party they’d be able to impose a fair peace. However, the Israelis managed to turn the Shia against them with their ham-handedness and massive shelling of south Lebanon which caused many of them to become refugees headed northwards. The Shia were pretty much at the low end of the totem pole being the poorest and least educated of the various Lebanese groups-not counting the Palestinians in the camps. It’s impressive how they’ve reconstituted themselves under the hierarchy of Shia leadership which allows them to be more tightly organized than other groups. They have the sponsorship of Iran, a foreign country it’s true, but then the entire region is rife with outsiders mucking about and supporting their own group. Hezbollah represents a portion of a relatively small country that’s had civil war and has had a lot of ups and downs. It cannot project it’s power outward very far; right next door into the current Syrian conflict but that’s about it. Yet the western press keeps harping on them being some sort of growing regional menace. It’s a menace in that they’ve become able to defend themselves against attack but a look at their actual population numbers shows how ludicrous the hype is. If for some reason there’s another go-around then the probable action would be to simply terror-bomb the civilians and destroy as much infrastructure as possible, to moon-crater everything and avoid troop casualties by minimizing use of ground troops against Hezbollah. Dump a lot of bombs and destroy, rinse and repeat.

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  22. @Z-man
    Is it Hiz or Hez-bollah?

    Thanks for you comment. The west has changed the spelling to HEZBULLAH which is the phonetic spelling for easy use. However, the correct spelling- that the organization uses regularly is HIZBULLAH. Thanks. B.R-T.

    Read More
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  23. So the shiite Hizbollah protect those ex-Muslims who leave Islam?

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  24. 1- Its a mistake to see Shia leaders like Sistani, Khomenei, or Fadlallah the same way as Saddam, Bin Laden or Mursi…a more honest comparison IMO would be with folks like St. Augustine, Martin Luther or Jean Calvin…its a whole different ball game than the Sunnis.

    2- Thats why you never hear of a Shia beheader or Jihadist terrorizing civilians.

    3- Hizbollah is in alliance with ME’s biggest Christian political party- FPM. And Theocratic Iran with ME’s only remaining secular government- Syria.

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  25. Zumbuddi says:
    @utu
    Very interesting. One thing however, I do not believe in $15 billions and the pipeline story. The pipeline story as the cause of Syria civil war is true on the same level as Iraq weapons of mass destruction were the cause of war. It is possible that some people in Qatar or Saudi Arabia believed in pipeline just like some people in the US believed that they are going to get oil in Iraq after the war or like some people believed that democracy will be planted in Iraq. These beliefs were very useful to the planners of the war who knew the real objective of the war which was not the oil, democracy or weapons of mass destruction.

    What WAS and IS the real reason for the war/s?

    Read More
    • Replies: @L.K
    For the war against Syria? Major reason is Israel's desire to isolate Iran.

    In the short term, the main goal is Israel's objective to cut off Hezbollah's resupplies from Syria, as stated by veteran CIA officer, Ray McGovern, during a cross talk debate.

    He stated very clearly that one cannot understand US policy/role in Syria without understanding Zionist influence & power within the US.
    , @Druid
    Simple - Talmudist Israel! All the land, all the resources, chaos, Americans and other stupids fighting their wars to keep them safe, etc
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  26. Al Khiyam says:
    @utu
    Very interesting. One thing however, I do not believe in $15 billions and the pipeline story. The pipeline story as the cause of Syria civil war is true on the same level as Iraq weapons of mass destruction were the cause of war. It is possible that some people in Qatar or Saudi Arabia believed in pipeline just like some people in the US believed that they are going to get oil in Iraq after the war or like some people believed that democracy will be planted in Iraq. These beliefs were very useful to the planners of the war who knew the real objective of the war which was not the oil, democracy or weapons of mass destruction.

    This pipeline story is definite bunk. What this line of explanation does it let ISRAEL off the hook. Why would Hezbollah do this? Are there secret deals in the background?
    The single biggest success of the post-Iraq War Era was the zionist NEOCONS’ erasing from public view- esp alt media- of zionists pivotal, core, SINGLE HANDED authorship of the 911 wars over the last generation justified by WTC attacks in NYC. The liquidation of the truth has gotten so complete that Sen John McCain can pose in Syria with the same AL QAEDA, Inc as attacked US on 911 and NO ONE EVEN MENTIONS IT!

    PNAC, JINSA, AIPAC, “Clean Break Strategy for Securing the Realm”, Oded Yinon, Office of Special Plans… The jews’ agenda for Eretz Israel has been disappeared from the discussion as has 911 itself. Whereas in Iraq War run-up, even the MSM admitted it. Bomb Iraq? Bad. But bomb the much weaker, far more inoffensive Syria? Good. Explain THAT. Well here goes: The long planned wars to overthrow Israel’s rivals in the region benefit ZIONISM so the dual-national leaders of the “peace movement” are keeping their mouths shut, cause their tribe is benefiting from the disintegration of M.E which installs the jewish state as grand Hegemon.
    Why arent the Vets For Peace, all the socialist groups, peaceniks and all the usual anti-imperialist fakes on the Left, protesting the war on Syria? Oddly, its been the traditional reactionary right wing who have demanded an end to these endless phony “humanitarian wars”. Not a word out of the Leftist liars. Cause if Assad goes down? Israel seizes the Golan and everything beyond. (If China, Russia, Japan or any other regime is doing what the zionist regime does on a regular basis? OMFG!)
    This article was an adequate summary of academic papers and on-the-ground report. But as usual it completely misses -or again obscures- the entire point of what is really going on in the region and manages to dilute the focus away from the actual zionist perpetrators pulling the strings of destruction in the Levant

    Read More
    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    "the same AL QAEDA, Inc as attacked US on 911"

    If you really believe that then I suggest you return to articles on 9/11 featured on this very website and read them carefully and not least the comments.
    , @anon
    To Noseythe Duke's reply to you I advise

    No, don't waste your time with the obsessives on this website who made up their minds long ago that there was a non Al Qaeda conspiracy and have hunkered down with that belief ever since. You would find yourself reading true nutters who think there weren't planes flying into the buildings at all! A 2008 documentary "102 Minutes that Changed America" contains video footage from so many sources that it would take a very fevered brain to suppose it was faked. It not only shows that it was planes, it clearly excludes the controlled demolition hypothesis. Usefully for those who don't understand that the collapses resulted from the weight of the upper floors bearing down on heat weakened steel members in a relatively novel design it shows really fierce fires burning that could not have done other than weaken any steel.

    Against those who believe that it was a triumph for Al Qaeda because it got the US embroiled in war in Afghanistan for 16+ years - and of course the unexpected bonus of the towers actually collapsing I concede that Mossad and the Saudis may have organised it with a long term view to getting America back into Iraq.... Of course the incompetent CIA and FBI and blabbermouth neocons wouldn't have been allowed in on it.
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  27. peterAUS says:

    Maybe interesting:

    https://www.defenddemocracy.org/content/uploads/documents/Schanzer_Badran_Daoud_Third_Lebanon_War.pdf

    Problem: 36 pages. Too much for an average poster here.
    Still, if interested you could do it in a week.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    I read maybe half of
    Ferdinand Smit, ‘The battle for South Lebanon, The radicalisation of Lebanon’s Shi’ites, 1982-1985’, Amsterdam, 2000
    on a flight, long ago, from Amsterdam to Atlanta.
    But I must admit, for me there was not much new in the book.
    , @anonymous
    Shame on you zionist

    Everyone knows 'Foundation for Defense of Democracies' that this trash is coming from, a right wing Israel whore house. Why did you post it here? Don't you know their zionist line? Don't you know that they have nothing but LIES.


    This garbage written by the criminals from an Israeli right wing 'fundation':

    https://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/foundation_for_defense_of_democracies/

    http://powerbase.info/index.php/Foundation_for_Defense_of_Democracies

    writers: Schanzer worked with a criminal zionist jew Daniel Pipe and graduated from
    Hebrew University,

    These 'writers' are working for the war criminals where no one should trust them. They lie to feed themselves. I suppose you do the same.

    , @anonymous
    Shame on you zionist

    Everyone knows 'Foundation for Defense of Democracies' that this trash is coming from, a right wing Israel whore house. Why did you post it here? Don't you know their zionist line? Don't you know that they have nothing but LIES.

    I assume you are from the criminal tribe, otherwise you wouldn't DARE TO POST IT HERE.

    your trash is forwarded by a mass murderer by the name of :

    Brig Gen Yakov Shaharabani

    Israeli Air Force Air Attaché to the US

    https://secure.afa.org/joinafa/printconfspeakers.aspx


    This garbage written by the criminals from an Israeli right wing 'fundation':

    https://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/foundation_for_defense_of_democracies/

    http://powerbase.info/index.php/Foundation_for_Defense_of_Democracies

    writers: Schanzer worked with a criminal zionist jew Daniel Pipe and graduated from
    Hebrew University,

    These 'writers' are working for the war criminals where no one should trust them. They lie to feed themselves. I suppose you do the same.
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  28. @peterAUS
    Maybe interesting:
    https://www.defenddemocracy.org/content/uploads/documents/Schanzer_Badran_Daoud_Third_Lebanon_War.pdf
    Problem: 36 pages. Too much for an average poster here.
    Still, if interested you could do it in a week.

    I read maybe half of
    Ferdinand Smit, ‘The battle for South Lebanon, The radicalisation of Lebanon’s Shi’ites, 1982-1985’, Amsterdam, 2000
    on a flight, long ago, from Amsterdam to Atlanta.
    But I must admit, for me there was not much new in the book.

    Read More
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  29. @Seamus Padraig
    Excellent article. People defending their own country, like Hezbollah, are patriots, not terrorists; terrorists are those who--like the IDF--invade and destroy other people's countries.

    One minor grammar-Nazi correction:

    Hizbullah’s improvements in education go along way in a population that has a large Shi’a base and that highly values education within the tenants of their religion.
     
    I'm sure he means 'tenets' in this context.

    According to the Western Media, the term terrorist applies to any individual or group who in any form or fashion go about defending themselves from Jewish domination.

    Read More
    • Agree: Seamus Padraig
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  30. Art says:

    A very fine article. Information is king.

    If Trump gets out of Syria — then Hezbollah and Iran will take over the defense of southern Syria. Every day the Israeli position become more precarious.

    Payback is a bitch!

    Think Peace

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jake
    Which Israeli position do you mean is becoming more precarious?

    The existence of the state of Israel is not precarious and would not be any more so if the Israelis stopped their incessant warring while claiming to be peace-loving innocent victims.

    Even the most stupid Arab knows that Israel has nukes and is evil and insane enough to use them in bordering countries.
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  31. L.K says:
    @Zumbuddi
    What WAS and IS the real reason for the war/s?

    For the war against Syria? Major reason is Israel’s desire to isolate Iran.

    In the short term, the main goal is Israel’s objective to cut off Hezbollah’s resupplies from Syria, as stated by veteran CIA officer, Ray McGovern, during a cross talk debate.

    He stated very clearly that one cannot understand US policy/role in Syria without understanding Zionist influence & power within the US.

    Read More
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  32. anonymous[204] • Disclaimer says:
    @peterAUS
    Maybe interesting:
    https://www.defenddemocracy.org/content/uploads/documents/Schanzer_Badran_Daoud_Third_Lebanon_War.pdf
    Problem: 36 pages. Too much for an average poster here.
    Still, if interested you could do it in a week.

    Shame on you zionist

    Everyone knows ‘Foundation for Defense of Democracies’ that this trash is coming from, a right wing Israel whore house. Why did you post it here? Don’t you know their zionist line? Don’t you know that they have nothing but LIES.

    This garbage written by the criminals from an Israeli right wing ‘fundation’:

    https://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/foundation_for_defense_of_democracies/

    http://powerbase.info/index.php/Foundation_for_Defense_of_Democracies

    writers: Schanzer worked with a criminal zionist jew Daniel Pipe and graduated from
    Hebrew University,

    These ‘writers’ are working for the war criminals where no one should trust them. They lie to feed themselves. I suppose you do the same.

    Read More
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  33. anonymous[204] • Disclaimer says:
    @peterAUS
    Maybe interesting:
    https://www.defenddemocracy.org/content/uploads/documents/Schanzer_Badran_Daoud_Third_Lebanon_War.pdf
    Problem: 36 pages. Too much for an average poster here.
    Still, if interested you could do it in a week.

    Shame on you zionist

    Everyone knows ‘Foundation for Defense of Democracies’ that this trash is coming from, a right wing Israel whore house. Why did you post it here? Don’t you know their zionist line? Don’t you know that they have nothing but LIES.

    I assume you are from the criminal tribe, otherwise you wouldn’t DARE TO POST IT HERE.

    your trash is forwarded by a mass murderer by the name of :

    Brig Gen Yakov Shaharabani

    Israeli Air Force Air Attaché to the US

    https://secure.afa.org/joinafa/printconfspeakers.aspx

    This garbage written by the criminals from an Israeli right wing ‘fundation’:

    https://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/foundation_for_defense_of_democracies/

    http://powerbase.info/index.php/Foundation_for_Defense_of_Democracies

    writers: Schanzer worked with a criminal zionist jew Daniel Pipe and graduated from
    Hebrew University,

    These ‘writers’ are working for the war criminals where no one should trust them. They lie to feed themselves. I suppose you do the same.

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    Twice a?
    That's the spirit.
    Admire passionate people with a cause.

    If I may:

    Why did you post it here?
     
    Uhm....free speech?

    Don’t you know their zionist line?
     
    I do.

    Don’t you know that they have nothing but LIES.
     
    Such as?
    There are, probably, something of a truth in that document. Ah, yes, you haven't read it. Makes sense. Sort of...in a certain way.

    I assume you are from the criminal tribe, otherwise you wouldn’t DARE TO POST IT HERE
     
    Curious. Why not?
    I mean, what should I be "daring about"?
    Enlighten me, please.

    These ‘writers’ are working for the war criminals where no one should trust them.
     
    I see. Passion for sure.
    So, we can't trust war criminals. Probably.
    But......should we at least try to hear them? You know, free speech and making own mind?

    So...assumption wise, I can also do that. I assume you are one of those at the receiving end of Israel power there. O.K. You don't want to listen to those enemies of you. Sounds.....interesting.
    Let me guess: you get all you need to know from your elders/superiors/higher ups. Sounds.....liberating. No need to think. Just to feel. Makes sense.

    Anyway....you guys ready for the next round against IDF?
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  34. Druid says:
    @Zumbuddi
    What WAS and IS the real reason for the war/s?

    Simple – Talmudist Israel! All the land, all the resources, chaos, Americans and other stupids fighting their wars to keep them safe, etc

    Read More
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  35. peterAUS says:
    @anonymous
    Shame on you zionist

    Everyone knows 'Foundation for Defense of Democracies' that this trash is coming from, a right wing Israel whore house. Why did you post it here? Don't you know their zionist line? Don't you know that they have nothing but LIES.

    I assume you are from the criminal tribe, otherwise you wouldn't DARE TO POST IT HERE.

    your trash is forwarded by a mass murderer by the name of :

    Brig Gen Yakov Shaharabani

    Israeli Air Force Air Attaché to the US

    https://secure.afa.org/joinafa/printconfspeakers.aspx


    This garbage written by the criminals from an Israeli right wing 'fundation':

    https://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/foundation_for_defense_of_democracies/

    http://powerbase.info/index.php/Foundation_for_Defense_of_Democracies

    writers: Schanzer worked with a criminal zionist jew Daniel Pipe and graduated from
    Hebrew University,

    These 'writers' are working for the war criminals where no one should trust them. They lie to feed themselves. I suppose you do the same.

    Twice a?
    That’s the spirit.
    Admire passionate people with a cause.

    If I may:

    Why did you post it here?

    Uhm….free speech?

    Don’t you know their zionist line?

    I do.

    Don’t you know that they have nothing but LIES.

    Such as?
    There are, probably, something of a truth in that document. Ah, yes, you haven’t read it. Makes sense. Sort of…in a certain way.

    I assume you are from the criminal tribe, otherwise you wouldn’t DARE TO POST IT HERE

    Curious. Why not?
    I mean, what should I be “daring about”?
    Enlighten me, please.

    These ‘writers’ are working for the war criminals where no one should trust them.

    I see. Passion for sure.
    So, we can’t trust war criminals. Probably.
    But……should we at least try to hear them? You know, free speech and making own mind?

    So…assumption wise, I can also do that. I assume you are one of those at the receiving end of Israel power there. O.K. You don’t want to listen to those enemies of you. Sounds…..interesting.
    Let me guess: you get all you need to know from your elders/superiors/higher ups. Sounds…..liberating. No need to think. Just to feel. Makes sense.

    Anyway….you guys ready for the next round against IDF?

    Read More
    • Troll: L.K
    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    "Enlighten me, please."

    I doubt that is possible. Your ego is vast and your soul is dark. I don't know if that is what caused your identification as a "warrior hero" or if it happened as a result of it but either way I see little hope for you. Your torment will only increase as you age and for you, wisdom will arrive too late, if at all.

    , @Begemot
    We can see that the Israeli military is very capable when going up against the unarmed. The Passover Massacre was the latest IDF victory. Even the Wehrmacht couldn't get kill ratios like that against the Soviets. I can see why you think they're so good. However, that isn't good training for battle against real men. Your confidence may be misplaced.
    , @Greasy William
    That analysis doesn't even make the IDF look good. In fact it shows how weak the IDF really is. Even Nasrallah* would probably agree with most of it. But because it isn't pure Saker/Southfront propaganda it was apparently enough to blow a few gaskets here.

    I like to troll, but this is just depressing. It isn't healthy for people to walk around carrying so much delusion and hate; whether it be for Jews or anyone else.


    *Funny story about Nasrallah. According to Israeli intelligence he has a rare genetic disorder that makes him unable to lie. He is like a real life version of Jim Carey's character from "Liar Liar". For his part, Nasrallah claims that he can lie, he just generally chooses not to.
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  36. Jake says:
    @Art
    A very fine article. Information is king.

    If Trump gets out of Syria --- then Hezbollah and Iran will take over the defense of southern Syria. Every day the Israeli position become more precarious.

    Payback is a bitch!

    Think Peace

    Which Israeli position do you mean is becoming more precarious?

    The existence of the state of Israel is not precarious and would not be any more so if the Israelis stopped their incessant warring while claiming to be peace-loving innocent victims.

    Even the most stupid Arab knows that Israel has nukes and is evil and insane enough to use them in bordering countries.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art
    Which Israeli position do you mean is becoming more precarious?

    Everyday the attitude of world is hardening - everyday the JQ is on the minds of more people around the world.

    All those hidden nukes will only accelerate the disgust.

    Think Peace --- Art
    , @jilles dykstra
    Wise jews, they exist, and existed, even in Israel around the sixties, warned, when Perez began developing the atomic bomb, that it would be only a matter of time before neighbouring countries would have theses weapons too.
    The idea is that Iran does not have them, I doubt this.
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  37. @NoseytheDuke
    So what if the 2006 war cost Israel 5 billion? Surely the US taxpayer can afford it? Why would anyone question that this is not OK and not merely business as usual?

    Agreed! Since 2006 Israel has received about $40b tax$ to-date! Israel is actually being rewarded by the US for killing of the innocents or getting their asses kicked in Lebanon!

    Read More
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  38. @Al Khiyam
    This pipeline story is definite bunk. What this line of explanation does it let ISRAEL off the hook. Why would Hezbollah do this? Are there secret deals in the background?
    The single biggest success of the post-Iraq War Era was the zionist NEOCONS' erasing from public view- esp alt media- of zionists pivotal, core, SINGLE HANDED authorship of the 911 wars over the last generation justified by WTC attacks in NYC. The liquidation of the truth has gotten so complete that Sen John McCain can pose in Syria with the same AL QAEDA, Inc as attacked US on 911 and NO ONE EVEN MENTIONS IT!

    PNAC, JINSA, AIPAC, "Clean Break Strategy for Securing the Realm", Oded Yinon, Office of Special Plans... The jews' agenda for Eretz Israel has been disappeared from the discussion as has 911 itself. Whereas in Iraq War run-up, even the MSM admitted it. Bomb Iraq? Bad. But bomb the much weaker, far more inoffensive Syria? Good. Explain THAT. Well here goes: The long planned wars to overthrow Israel's rivals in the region benefit ZIONISM so the dual-national leaders of the "peace movement" are keeping their mouths shut, cause their tribe is benefiting from the disintegration of M.E which installs the jewish state as grand Hegemon.
    Why arent the Vets For Peace, all the socialist groups, peaceniks and all the usual anti-imperialist fakes on the Left, protesting the war on Syria? Oddly, its been the traditional reactionary right wing who have demanded an end to these endless phony "humanitarian wars". Not a word out of the Leftist liars. Cause if Assad goes down? Israel seizes the Golan and everything beyond. (If China, Russia, Japan or any other regime is doing what the zionist regime does on a regular basis? OMFG!)
    This article was an adequate summary of academic papers and on-the-ground report. But as usual it completely misses -or again obscures- the entire point of what is really going on in the region and manages to dilute the focus away from the actual zionist perpetrators pulling the strings of destruction in the Levant

    “the same AL QAEDA, Inc as attacked US on 911″

    If you really believe that then I suggest you return to articles on 9/11 featured on this very website and read them carefully and not least the comments.

    Read More
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  39. @peterAUS
    Twice a?
    That's the spirit.
    Admire passionate people with a cause.

    If I may:

    Why did you post it here?
     
    Uhm....free speech?

    Don’t you know their zionist line?
     
    I do.

    Don’t you know that they have nothing but LIES.
     
    Such as?
    There are, probably, something of a truth in that document. Ah, yes, you haven't read it. Makes sense. Sort of...in a certain way.

    I assume you are from the criminal tribe, otherwise you wouldn’t DARE TO POST IT HERE
     
    Curious. Why not?
    I mean, what should I be "daring about"?
    Enlighten me, please.

    These ‘writers’ are working for the war criminals where no one should trust them.
     
    I see. Passion for sure.
    So, we can't trust war criminals. Probably.
    But......should we at least try to hear them? You know, free speech and making own mind?

    So...assumption wise, I can also do that. I assume you are one of those at the receiving end of Israel power there. O.K. You don't want to listen to those enemies of you. Sounds.....interesting.
    Let me guess: you get all you need to know from your elders/superiors/higher ups. Sounds.....liberating. No need to think. Just to feel. Makes sense.

    Anyway....you guys ready for the next round against IDF?

    “Enlighten me, please.”

    I doubt that is possible. Your ego is vast and your soul is dark. I don’t know if that is what caused your identification as a “warrior hero” or if it happened as a result of it but either way I see little hope for you. Your torment will only increase as you age and for you, wisdom will arrive too late, if at all.

    Read More
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  40. Art says:
    @Jake
    Which Israeli position do you mean is becoming more precarious?

    The existence of the state of Israel is not precarious and would not be any more so if the Israelis stopped their incessant warring while claiming to be peace-loving innocent victims.

    Even the most stupid Arab knows that Israel has nukes and is evil and insane enough to use them in bordering countries.

    Which Israeli position do you mean is becoming more precarious?

    Everyday the attitude of world is hardening – everyday the JQ is on the minds of more people around the world.

    All those hidden nukes will only accelerate the disgust.

    Think Peace — Art

    Read More
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  41. @Randal

    Both the usa and israel were wise to stay out of the syrian war
     
    ROFL!

    I was recently accused of over-using the terms "delusion" and "delusional", but...... I rest my case, ffs!

    You beat me to it, Randal.

    Read More
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  42. @Seamus Padraig
    Excellent article. People defending their own country, like Hezbollah, are patriots, not terrorists; terrorists are those who--like the IDF--invade and destroy other people's countries.

    One minor grammar-Nazi correction:

    Hizbullah’s improvements in education go along way in a population that has a large Shi’a base and that highly values education within the tenants of their religion.
     
    I'm sure he means 'tenets' in this context.

    “I’m sure he means ‘tenets’ in this context.”

    Probably so. Writers are often the victims of their spellcheck and/or autocorrect. One recurring mistake caused by those programs is the use of “lead” instead of “led”. Read aloud, it may sound right, but it jumps out when viewed on the page.

    Read More
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  43. mcohen says:

    The best quality hash comes from lebanon.however it is the s.american cocaine trade that pays the bills.the irony is it is a reverse iran contra diction.get it…….contra diction

    https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/18/obama-blocked-hezbollah-drugs-trafficking-investigation-secure/amp/

    http://www.newsweek.com/jeff-sessions-orders-review-hezbollah-drug-trade-handling-department-justice-757855

    Read More
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  44. anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @Al Khiyam
    This pipeline story is definite bunk. What this line of explanation does it let ISRAEL off the hook. Why would Hezbollah do this? Are there secret deals in the background?
    The single biggest success of the post-Iraq War Era was the zionist NEOCONS' erasing from public view- esp alt media- of zionists pivotal, core, SINGLE HANDED authorship of the 911 wars over the last generation justified by WTC attacks in NYC. The liquidation of the truth has gotten so complete that Sen John McCain can pose in Syria with the same AL QAEDA, Inc as attacked US on 911 and NO ONE EVEN MENTIONS IT!

    PNAC, JINSA, AIPAC, "Clean Break Strategy for Securing the Realm", Oded Yinon, Office of Special Plans... The jews' agenda for Eretz Israel has been disappeared from the discussion as has 911 itself. Whereas in Iraq War run-up, even the MSM admitted it. Bomb Iraq? Bad. But bomb the much weaker, far more inoffensive Syria? Good. Explain THAT. Well here goes: The long planned wars to overthrow Israel's rivals in the region benefit ZIONISM so the dual-national leaders of the "peace movement" are keeping their mouths shut, cause their tribe is benefiting from the disintegration of M.E which installs the jewish state as grand Hegemon.
    Why arent the Vets For Peace, all the socialist groups, peaceniks and all the usual anti-imperialist fakes on the Left, protesting the war on Syria? Oddly, its been the traditional reactionary right wing who have demanded an end to these endless phony "humanitarian wars". Not a word out of the Leftist liars. Cause if Assad goes down? Israel seizes the Golan and everything beyond. (If China, Russia, Japan or any other regime is doing what the zionist regime does on a regular basis? OMFG!)
    This article was an adequate summary of academic papers and on-the-ground report. But as usual it completely misses -or again obscures- the entire point of what is really going on in the region and manages to dilute the focus away from the actual zionist perpetrators pulling the strings of destruction in the Levant

    To Noseythe Duke’s reply to you I advise

    No, don’t waste your time with the obsessives on this website who made up their minds long ago that there was a non Al Qaeda conspiracy and have hunkered down with that belief ever since. You would find yourself reading true nutters who think there weren’t planes flying into the buildings at all! A 2008 documentary “102 Minutes that Changed America” contains video footage from so many sources that it would take a very fevered brain to suppose it was faked. It not only shows that it was planes, it clearly excludes the controlled demolition hypothesis. Usefully for those who don’t understand that the collapses resulted from the weight of the upper floors bearing down on heat weakened steel members in a relatively novel design it shows really fierce fires burning that could not have done other than weaken any steel.

    Against those who believe that it was a triumph for Al Qaeda because it got the US embroiled in war in Afghanistan for 16+ years – and of course the unexpected bonus of the towers actually collapsing I concede that Mossad and the Saudis may have organised it with a long term view to getting America back into Iraq…. Of course the incompetent CIA and FBI and blabbermouth neocons wouldn’t have been allowed in on it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    "those who don’t understand that the collapses resulted from the weight of the upper floors bearing down on heat weakened steel members in a relatively novel design it shows really fierce fires burning that could not have done other than weaken any steel."

    This twaddle is coming from a twat who would try to convince people that Newton's Laws on the conservation of energy somehow didn't apply on 9/11/2001. Of course, then there's the remarkable coincidence that drills such as Vigilant Warrior were being conducted specifically simulating planes crashing into WTC at the very same time as the intrepid box-cutter armed Al Qaeda boozing and stripper watching "Islamists" were actually behind the controls of those miracle flights that somehow contained thousands of times the heat energy required to soften such vast quantities of structural steel and all in an instant. LOL!

    The "really fierce fires" mentioned were somehow unable to melt glass while they were busy melting thick steel! Pictures prove it! LOL!

    What a tosser you are! What do you suppose the reaction will be when a tipping point is reached in the US that it was actually America's great "friend and ally" behind it all? Not good, I'd say. Perhaps there'll be a place for you in Patagonia, I hear that's where the escape bolt hole is to be for you and yours, not everyone mind, and certainly not the low level functionaries such as yourself who have failed to convince anyone of anything other than of your great capacity for treachery, hubris and overreach, again.

    , @jilles dykstra
    El Quaida, a USA propaganda invention.
    Why do you think the USA murdered a man over sixty who had been living in Abottabad quietly for many years ?
    I suppose the same reason the presumed Hess was suicided in the Spandau prison in Berlin, at all costs it had to be prevented that they spoke.
    , @Mulegino1
    "No planers" should more honestly be referred to as "no airlinerers" because we simply do not believe that there is any evidence that WTC 1 and 2 were struck by Boeing 767's. If this were indeed the case, why is there not a single clear real time video of an airliner hitting WTC 2? The airspace over the towers was by that time full of news helicopters with professional camera crews, yet the footage from Chopper 4, with a panoramic view of the Towers and an unobstructed view of the point of impact showed only an explosion from within the building and- upon immediate review of the video- a very small flying object (barely visible) approaching from above and to the left of WTC 2. That was no commercial airliner. What it was- stealth aircraft or a missile- is unclear.

    It appears that most or all of the faked "Holy s--t!" videos of the so called "airliner impacts" were produced by the same people. The people who produced these could not even get the approach trajectory correct. The most famous of them all, the Hezarkhani footage, shows what is alleged to be a 767 going right into WTC 2 while maintaining constant velocity, as if the building's massive steel perimeter columns and concrete floor pans provided no resistance whatsoever. This is an absolute impossibility. A 767- for the most part a thin hollow aluminum cylinder whose fuselage and delicate nose cone can be severely damaged by a collision with birds at cruising speed- would have been destroyed upon impact. Most of its components would have fallen to the street below the point of impact.

    The 9/11 airliner-office fire-gravity collapse- legend is a narrative fit only for an utterly somnolent and benighted public composed mostly of ignorant infotainment consumers. To anyone with even a modicum of critical thinking skills and rudimentary grasp of physics it is not only not credible, it is impossible. Anyone who sees the videos of the destruction of WTC 1 and 2 and still believes in the official narrative is obviously unable to tell the difference between a gravity collapse and the release of massive amounts of explosive energy sufficient to cause most of the steel and concrete components of the building to experience molecular dissociation and turn into the dust clouds that blanketed lower Manhattan. No gravity collapse or office fire on earth has the energy potential to do anything even remotely approaching this.
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  45. mcohen says:
    @Randal

    Both the usa and israel were wise to stay out of the syrian war
     
    ROFL!

    I was recently accused of over-using the terms "delusion" and "delusional", but...... I rest my case, ffs!

    Don’t be silly now.the oil wars are a losing proposition.whats more there is no cost benefits as the debt incurred to pay for them will yield no return as fossil fuels will be phased out in the next 20 years.the only resource in the middle east worth fighting for is water.silly boy ffsb

    Read More
    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    Of course, therefore the near war conditions in the South Chinese Sea between the west and China over oil rich regions.
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  46. @anon
    To Noseythe Duke's reply to you I advise

    No, don't waste your time with the obsessives on this website who made up their minds long ago that there was a non Al Qaeda conspiracy and have hunkered down with that belief ever since. You would find yourself reading true nutters who think there weren't planes flying into the buildings at all! A 2008 documentary "102 Minutes that Changed America" contains video footage from so many sources that it would take a very fevered brain to suppose it was faked. It not only shows that it was planes, it clearly excludes the controlled demolition hypothesis. Usefully for those who don't understand that the collapses resulted from the weight of the upper floors bearing down on heat weakened steel members in a relatively novel design it shows really fierce fires burning that could not have done other than weaken any steel.

    Against those who believe that it was a triumph for Al Qaeda because it got the US embroiled in war in Afghanistan for 16+ years - and of course the unexpected bonus of the towers actually collapsing I concede that Mossad and the Saudis may have organised it with a long term view to getting America back into Iraq.... Of course the incompetent CIA and FBI and blabbermouth neocons wouldn't have been allowed in on it.

    “those who don’t understand that the collapses resulted from the weight of the upper floors bearing down on heat weakened steel members in a relatively novel design it shows really fierce fires burning that could not have done other than weaken any steel.”

    This twaddle is coming from a twat who would try to convince people that Newton’s Laws on the conservation of energy somehow didn’t apply on 9/11/2001. Of course, then there’s the remarkable coincidence that drills such as Vigilant Warrior were being conducted specifically simulating planes crashing into WTC at the very same time as the intrepid box-cutter armed Al Qaeda boozing and stripper watching “Islamists” were actually behind the controls of those miracle flights that somehow contained thousands of times the heat energy required to soften such vast quantities of structural steel and all in an instant. LOL!

    The “really fierce fires” mentioned were somehow unable to melt glass while they were busy melting thick steel! Pictures prove it! LOL!

    What a tosser you are! What do you suppose the reaction will be when a tipping point is reached in the US that it was actually America’s great “friend and ally” behind it all? Not good, I’d say. Perhaps there’ll be a place for you in Patagonia, I hear that’s where the escape bolt hole is to be for you and yours, not everyone mind, and certainly not the low level functionaries such as yourself who have failed to convince anyone of anything other than of your great capacity for treachery, hubris and overreach, again.

    Read More
    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    Newton's laws on the conservation of momentum.
    , @anon
    I gather you always get very excited when the 9/11 whodunnit question comes up because you are in the same position as a believer in the immaculate conception who feels very frustrated at his inability to master some scientific theory which would convince unbelievers. In your case I see you gabble a mantra about conservation of momentum that you evidently don't understand and invoke Vigilant Warrior which is like preying the The Three Wise Men in aid for proof of the virgin birth.

    The flames visible as mentioned were blazing where glass windows had been and, as previously noted, could not have failed to weaken the steel structure. How much? Well the most telling fact is that the difference between what happened to the two buildings makes it clear that the hugely greater weight above Level 78 than above Level 102 meant that the weakening had to be much less in the former case to cause rupture of the steel frame or supports. That is why the second tower to be hit got to the point of critical weakness long before the other tower. Do you have difficulty understanding that?

    Then you also have a problem explaining where the explosives would be for a controlled demolition. Could they be where a raging fire was due to be created? Fire proof explosives no less? And if they were somehow encased in such protective insulation and armour plating that they could remain unaffected for an hour or so (see, I am willing to help you fantasize) there is still the problem of controlling the planes to hit at precisely the right levels in each case. Let me fantasize again for you. Someone had set up an electronic device to provide a beam from the target level for each plane's highjacked autopilot to be guided by!! So why didn't they have both planes hitting at the same level, preferably Level 50 or lower for maximum effect (undeniably many more people would have been killed)?

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  47. @Jake
    Which Israeli position do you mean is becoming more precarious?

    The existence of the state of Israel is not precarious and would not be any more so if the Israelis stopped their incessant warring while claiming to be peace-loving innocent victims.

    Even the most stupid Arab knows that Israel has nukes and is evil and insane enough to use them in bordering countries.

    Wise jews, they exist, and existed, even in Israel around the sixties, warned, when Perez began developing the atomic bomb, that it would be only a matter of time before neighbouring countries would have theses weapons too.
    The idea is that Iran does not have them, I doubt this.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
    Regardless of whether Iran has nuclear weapons, their protector, Russia certainly does have them. That could be the reason for the neocon push for war on Russia. The possibility that Israel developed their nuclear weapons in a joint project with China is also part of the tale of how Israel became a nuclear power.

    If that is to be believed, then the US would be regarded as not to blame for Israel developing nuclear weapons. If this is the case, Israel would have been able to develop weapons without also developing nuclear power plants. Is this credible?
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  48. @mcohen
    Don't be silly now.the oil wars are a losing proposition.whats more there is no cost benefits as the debt incurred to pay for them will yield no return as fossil fuels will be phased out in the next 20 years.the only resource in the middle east worth fighting for is water.silly boy ffsb

    Of course, therefore the near war conditions in the South Chinese Sea between the west and China over oil rich regions.

    Read More
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  49. @anon
    To Noseythe Duke's reply to you I advise

    No, don't waste your time with the obsessives on this website who made up their minds long ago that there was a non Al Qaeda conspiracy and have hunkered down with that belief ever since. You would find yourself reading true nutters who think there weren't planes flying into the buildings at all! A 2008 documentary "102 Minutes that Changed America" contains video footage from so many sources that it would take a very fevered brain to suppose it was faked. It not only shows that it was planes, it clearly excludes the controlled demolition hypothesis. Usefully for those who don't understand that the collapses resulted from the weight of the upper floors bearing down on heat weakened steel members in a relatively novel design it shows really fierce fires burning that could not have done other than weaken any steel.

    Against those who believe that it was a triumph for Al Qaeda because it got the US embroiled in war in Afghanistan for 16+ years - and of course the unexpected bonus of the towers actually collapsing I concede that Mossad and the Saudis may have organised it with a long term view to getting America back into Iraq.... Of course the incompetent CIA and FBI and blabbermouth neocons wouldn't have been allowed in on it.

    El Quaida, a USA propaganda invention.
    Why do you think the USA murdered a man over sixty who had been living in Abottabad quietly for many years ?
    I suppose the same reason the presumed Hess was suicided in the Spandau prison in Berlin, at all costs it had to be prevented that they spoke.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    There being no substance in your rhetoric let me answer with a more potent counter rhetoric "What do think the Allies were doing in post war Germany supporting a near 80 year old, who had been living quietly, to be Chancellor tesponsible for the building of a great country?

    As to Hess who died in prison in his 90s because (by my recollection) the Soviet Union wouldn't agree to his release, what could he have conceivably said in 1987 that could have embarrassed the British government in any serious way, or indeed at all? What could he have said the the Soviet Union didn't know about and could have used? You must have picked it up from some silly tabloid plagiarising The Independent on one of its really bad days when it published this silly almost contentless story:

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/adolf-hitlers-nazi-deputy-rudolf-hess-murdered-by-british-agents-to-stop-him-spilling-wartime-8802603.html
    , @anon
    Are you losing self control in your old age? It is really dopey to diaregard Al Qaeda's attacks on the Kenyan and Tanzanian embassies, the USS warship off Yemen etc. And of course you say Osama bin Laden could speak of things which would show.... what? Oh that he was indeed an enemy of America!

    How, pray, was he prevented from saying something important? Do you think he was just gearing up for a big TV documentary that for some reason had to be forestalled?

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  50. @NoseytheDuke
    "those who don’t understand that the collapses resulted from the weight of the upper floors bearing down on heat weakened steel members in a relatively novel design it shows really fierce fires burning that could not have done other than weaken any steel."

    This twaddle is coming from a twat who would try to convince people that Newton's Laws on the conservation of energy somehow didn't apply on 9/11/2001. Of course, then there's the remarkable coincidence that drills such as Vigilant Warrior were being conducted specifically simulating planes crashing into WTC at the very same time as the intrepid box-cutter armed Al Qaeda boozing and stripper watching "Islamists" were actually behind the controls of those miracle flights that somehow contained thousands of times the heat energy required to soften such vast quantities of structural steel and all in an instant. LOL!

    The "really fierce fires" mentioned were somehow unable to melt glass while they were busy melting thick steel! Pictures prove it! LOL!

    What a tosser you are! What do you suppose the reaction will be when a tipping point is reached in the US that it was actually America's great "friend and ally" behind it all? Not good, I'd say. Perhaps there'll be a place for you in Patagonia, I hear that's where the escape bolt hole is to be for you and yours, not everyone mind, and certainly not the low level functionaries such as yourself who have failed to convince anyone of anything other than of your great capacity for treachery, hubris and overreach, again.

    Newton’s laws on the conservation of momentum.

    Read More
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  51. anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @jilles dykstra
    El Quaida, a USA propaganda invention.
    Why do you think the USA murdered a man over sixty who had been living in Abottabad quietly for many years ?
    I suppose the same reason the presumed Hess was suicided in the Spandau prison in Berlin, at all costs it had to be prevented that they spoke.

    There being no substance in your rhetoric let me answer with a more potent counter rhetoric “What do think the Allies were doing in post war Germany supporting a near 80 year old, who had been living quietly, to be Chancellor tesponsible for the building of a great country?

    As to Hess who died in prison in his 90s because (by my recollection) the Soviet Union wouldn’t agree to his release, what could he have conceivably said in 1987 that could have embarrassed the British government in any serious way, or indeed at all? What could he have said the the Soviet Union didn’t know about and could have used? You must have picked it up from some silly tabloid plagiarising The Independent on one of its really bad days when it published this silly almost contentless story:

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/adolf-hitlers-nazi-deputy-rudolf-hess-murdered-by-british-agents-to-stop-him-spilling-wartime-8802603.html

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    https://www.amazon.com/Double-Standards-Lynn-Picknett/dp/0751532207
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  52. Mulegino1 says:
    @anon
    To Noseythe Duke's reply to you I advise

    No, don't waste your time with the obsessives on this website who made up their minds long ago that there was a non Al Qaeda conspiracy and have hunkered down with that belief ever since. You would find yourself reading true nutters who think there weren't planes flying into the buildings at all! A 2008 documentary "102 Minutes that Changed America" contains video footage from so many sources that it would take a very fevered brain to suppose it was faked. It not only shows that it was planes, it clearly excludes the controlled demolition hypothesis. Usefully for those who don't understand that the collapses resulted from the weight of the upper floors bearing down on heat weakened steel members in a relatively novel design it shows really fierce fires burning that could not have done other than weaken any steel.

    Against those who believe that it was a triumph for Al Qaeda because it got the US embroiled in war in Afghanistan for 16+ years - and of course the unexpected bonus of the towers actually collapsing I concede that Mossad and the Saudis may have organised it with a long term view to getting America back into Iraq.... Of course the incompetent CIA and FBI and blabbermouth neocons wouldn't have been allowed in on it.

    “No planers” should more honestly be referred to as “no airlinerers” because we simply do not believe that there is any evidence that WTC 1 and 2 were struck by Boeing 767′s. If this were indeed the case, why is there not a single clear real time video of an airliner hitting WTC 2? The airspace over the towers was by that time full of news helicopters with professional camera crews, yet the footage from Chopper 4, with a panoramic view of the Towers and an unobstructed view of the point of impact showed only an explosion from within the building and- upon immediate review of the video- a very small flying object (barely visible) approaching from above and to the left of WTC 2. That was no commercial airliner. What it was- stealth aircraft or a missile- is unclear.

    It appears that most or all of the faked “Holy s–t!” videos of the so called “airliner impacts” were produced by the same people. The people who produced these could not even get the approach trajectory correct. The most famous of them all, the Hezarkhani footage, shows what is alleged to be a 767 going right into WTC 2 while maintaining constant velocity, as if the building’s massive steel perimeter columns and concrete floor pans provided no resistance whatsoever. This is an absolute impossibility. A 767- for the most part a thin hollow aluminum cylinder whose fuselage and delicate nose cone can be severely damaged by a collision with birds at cruising speed- would have been destroyed upon impact. Most of its components would have fallen to the street below the point of impact.

    The 9/11 airliner-office fire-gravity collapse- legend is a narrative fit only for an utterly somnolent and benighted public composed mostly of ignorant infotainment consumers. To anyone with even a modicum of critical thinking skills and rudimentary grasp of physics it is not only not credible, it is impossible. Anyone who sees the videos of the destruction of WTC 1 and 2 and still believes in the official narrative is obviously unable to tell the difference between a gravity collapse and the release of massive amounts of explosive energy sufficient to cause most of the steel and concrete components of the building to experience molecular dissociation and turn into the dust clouds that blanketed lower Manhattan. No gravity collapse or office fire on earth has the energy potential to do anything even remotely approaching this.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    Interesting that you say "anyone who sees the videos" when you have disparaged actual videos as fakes. But you can't have seen the film I mentioned with its credits to perhaps 50 or 60 people's videos including clear footage of the second impact.

    I have asked a friend, an engineer by profession, with considerable experience of demolitions, whether he saw any evidence of demolitions rather than collapse under the weight above and he said he saw none. He also opined that it would be very odd to put demolition charges on the 78th and 102nd floors or whatever the damaged floors were. But you know better for some reason? Any qualifications?

    , @anon
    1. We surely know that hundreds of crew and passengers were lost to highjacking on 9/11. How do you explain the fate of those people and those planes?
    2. How do you explain the fact that the building struck on the lower floors fell first?
    3. If you believe there were explosives used for a demolition how come they were 20 floors apart and the planes hit precisely at the right level to cover for the demolitions?
    4. How come the demolition charges were not destroyed or detonated by the fires - with the first struck tower exploding first?
    , @anon
    Oh no! You really did make that silly "constant velocity" point. Obviously you can't produce precise figures and calculations to give anything like a scientifically correct answer. It's just handwaving and personal impression (your mom's perhaps?). You inadvertently give the lie to that nonsense by remarking on the delicate structure of the aircraft. What you see is the front of thr plane crumpling very quickly so that the slowing down of the forward motion of the aircraft's centrr of gravity is itself slowed down.
    Don't bother to reply with more instant foolish answers because you are sure you are right however hopeless your reasoning. Just think about it.
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  53. anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @NoseytheDuke
    "those who don’t understand that the collapses resulted from the weight of the upper floors bearing down on heat weakened steel members in a relatively novel design it shows really fierce fires burning that could not have done other than weaken any steel."

    This twaddle is coming from a twat who would try to convince people that Newton's Laws on the conservation of energy somehow didn't apply on 9/11/2001. Of course, then there's the remarkable coincidence that drills such as Vigilant Warrior were being conducted specifically simulating planes crashing into WTC at the very same time as the intrepid box-cutter armed Al Qaeda boozing and stripper watching "Islamists" were actually behind the controls of those miracle flights that somehow contained thousands of times the heat energy required to soften such vast quantities of structural steel and all in an instant. LOL!

    The "really fierce fires" mentioned were somehow unable to melt glass while they were busy melting thick steel! Pictures prove it! LOL!

    What a tosser you are! What do you suppose the reaction will be when a tipping point is reached in the US that it was actually America's great "friend and ally" behind it all? Not good, I'd say. Perhaps there'll be a place for you in Patagonia, I hear that's where the escape bolt hole is to be for you and yours, not everyone mind, and certainly not the low level functionaries such as yourself who have failed to convince anyone of anything other than of your great capacity for treachery, hubris and overreach, again.

    I gather you always get very excited when the 9/11 whodunnit question comes up because you are in the same position as a believer in the immaculate conception who feels very frustrated at his inability to master some scientific theory which would convince unbelievers. In your case I see you gabble a mantra about conservation of momentum that you evidently don’t understand and invoke Vigilant Warrior which is like preying the The Three Wise Men in aid for proof of the virgin birth.

    The flames visible as mentioned were blazing where glass windows had been and, as previously noted, could not have failed to weaken the steel structure. How much? Well the most telling fact is that the difference between what happened to the two buildings makes it clear that the hugely greater weight above Level 78 than above Level 102 meant that the weakening had to be much less in the former case to cause rupture of the steel frame or supports. That is why the second tower to be hit got to the point of critical weakness long before the other tower. Do you have difficulty understanding that?

    Then you also have a problem explaining where the explosives would be for a controlled demolition. Could they be where a raging fire was due to be created? Fire proof explosives no less? And if they were somehow encased in such protective insulation and armour plating that they could remain unaffected for an hour or so (see, I am willing to help you fantasize) there is still the problem of controlling the planes to hit at precisely the right levels in each case. Let me fantasize again for you. Someone had set up an electronic device to provide a beam from the target level for each plane’s highjacked autopilot to be guided by!! So why didn’t they have both planes hitting at the same level, preferably Level 50 or lower for maximum effect (undeniably many more people would have been killed)?

    Read More
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  54. jpb says:

    You exhibit willful ignorance and evidence of Stockholm Syndrome.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    You write in reply to no identified comment with only the syndrome of no brain switched on displayed. But if you are pretending to answer me please don't bother me with that bullshitter Bollyn. Once bitten is more than enough.
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  55. Hizbullah has two doomsday weapons.

    (1) as a non-state actor Hizbullah can counter CIA impunity with rough justice. The US is increasingly confined to clandestine war: undeclared and not only illegal but subject to certain abatements of Geneva Convention protections for captured agents. If you need to bag another Buckley and sweat him for inculpatory evidence, Hizbullah’s the pros from Dover who you go to. Russia and Iran are assembling a bill of indictment of CIA crimes of concern to the international community. Hizbullah’s the bad cop. Don’t like it? Go ahead, bring them to justice. In lawfare against Hizbullah, Israel will be the loser.

    https://digitalcommons.law.ggu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1121&context=annlsurvey

    (2) Hizbullah is a programmatic NGO. Programmatic NGOs provide services that do important duties of the state. This cements hearts and minds and establishes the legal basis for sovereignty. The US government is terrified of programmatic NGOs. Even in its Heimat in the USA, the government attacks programmatic NGOs with everything they’ve got. In Greater Palestine Hizbullah can put down the substrate for a new UAR, or a United Palestinian Republic. Hell, their tenets could unite the whole global South.

    Read More
    • Replies: @mcohen
    The transition from non state actor to legal basis of sovereignty is the difference between infantry and f 35 jets.
    Drugs,protection rackets,useful thugs may pay the way short term but real power will allude.
    The spread of cheap autonomous a.i driven military hardware will change this equation.imagine a miniature self drive car that is a car bomb
    And that will be the end of that said the cat.
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  56. anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mulegino1
    "No planers" should more honestly be referred to as "no airlinerers" because we simply do not believe that there is any evidence that WTC 1 and 2 were struck by Boeing 767's. If this were indeed the case, why is there not a single clear real time video of an airliner hitting WTC 2? The airspace over the towers was by that time full of news helicopters with professional camera crews, yet the footage from Chopper 4, with a panoramic view of the Towers and an unobstructed view of the point of impact showed only an explosion from within the building and- upon immediate review of the video- a very small flying object (barely visible) approaching from above and to the left of WTC 2. That was no commercial airliner. What it was- stealth aircraft or a missile- is unclear.

    It appears that most or all of the faked "Holy s--t!" videos of the so called "airliner impacts" were produced by the same people. The people who produced these could not even get the approach trajectory correct. The most famous of them all, the Hezarkhani footage, shows what is alleged to be a 767 going right into WTC 2 while maintaining constant velocity, as if the building's massive steel perimeter columns and concrete floor pans provided no resistance whatsoever. This is an absolute impossibility. A 767- for the most part a thin hollow aluminum cylinder whose fuselage and delicate nose cone can be severely damaged by a collision with birds at cruising speed- would have been destroyed upon impact. Most of its components would have fallen to the street below the point of impact.

    The 9/11 airliner-office fire-gravity collapse- legend is a narrative fit only for an utterly somnolent and benighted public composed mostly of ignorant infotainment consumers. To anyone with even a modicum of critical thinking skills and rudimentary grasp of physics it is not only not credible, it is impossible. Anyone who sees the videos of the destruction of WTC 1 and 2 and still believes in the official narrative is obviously unable to tell the difference between a gravity collapse and the release of massive amounts of explosive energy sufficient to cause most of the steel and concrete components of the building to experience molecular dissociation and turn into the dust clouds that blanketed lower Manhattan. No gravity collapse or office fire on earth has the energy potential to do anything even remotely approaching this.

    Interesting that you say “anyone who sees the videos” when you have disparaged actual videos as fakes. But you can’t have seen the film I mentioned with its credits to perhaps 50 or 60 people’s videos including clear footage of the second impact.

    I have asked a friend, an engineer by profession, with considerable experience of demolitions, whether he saw any evidence of demolitions rather than collapse under the weight above and he said he saw none. He also opined that it would be very odd to put demolition charges on the 78th and 102nd floors or whatever the damaged floors were. But you know better for some reason? Any qualifications?

    Read More
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  57. anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mulegino1
    "No planers" should more honestly be referred to as "no airlinerers" because we simply do not believe that there is any evidence that WTC 1 and 2 were struck by Boeing 767's. If this were indeed the case, why is there not a single clear real time video of an airliner hitting WTC 2? The airspace over the towers was by that time full of news helicopters with professional camera crews, yet the footage from Chopper 4, with a panoramic view of the Towers and an unobstructed view of the point of impact showed only an explosion from within the building and- upon immediate review of the video- a very small flying object (barely visible) approaching from above and to the left of WTC 2. That was no commercial airliner. What it was- stealth aircraft or a missile- is unclear.

    It appears that most or all of the faked "Holy s--t!" videos of the so called "airliner impacts" were produced by the same people. The people who produced these could not even get the approach trajectory correct. The most famous of them all, the Hezarkhani footage, shows what is alleged to be a 767 going right into WTC 2 while maintaining constant velocity, as if the building's massive steel perimeter columns and concrete floor pans provided no resistance whatsoever. This is an absolute impossibility. A 767- for the most part a thin hollow aluminum cylinder whose fuselage and delicate nose cone can be severely damaged by a collision with birds at cruising speed- would have been destroyed upon impact. Most of its components would have fallen to the street below the point of impact.

    The 9/11 airliner-office fire-gravity collapse- legend is a narrative fit only for an utterly somnolent and benighted public composed mostly of ignorant infotainment consumers. To anyone with even a modicum of critical thinking skills and rudimentary grasp of physics it is not only not credible, it is impossible. Anyone who sees the videos of the destruction of WTC 1 and 2 and still believes in the official narrative is obviously unable to tell the difference between a gravity collapse and the release of massive amounts of explosive energy sufficient to cause most of the steel and concrete components of the building to experience molecular dissociation and turn into the dust clouds that blanketed lower Manhattan. No gravity collapse or office fire on earth has the energy potential to do anything even remotely approaching this.

    1. We surely know that hundreds of crew and passengers were lost to highjacking on 9/11. How do you explain the fate of those people and those planes?
    2. How do you explain the fact that the building struck on the lower floors fell first?
    3. If you believe there were explosives used for a demolition how come they were 20 floors apart and the planes hit precisely at the right level to cover for the demolitions?
    4. How come the demolition charges were not destroyed or detonated by the fires – with the first struck tower exploding first?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mulegino1
    And how do you know "that hundreds of crew and passengers were lost to highjacking on 9/11"? Because you saw it on t.v.? Because a first cousin of yours knows the brother of one of the victims' spouses?

    Conan Doyle put it brilliantly when he had Holmes tell Watson: "Whenever you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." A compliant and monolithic media can fabricate legends, but it cannot provide a plausible scenario for the violation of the most fundamental laws of physics.

    How do you explain the self fueling underground fires which burned for months after the events?

    How do you explain how hydrocarbon based office fires started by jet fuel turned most of the structural steel and concrete of the towers into clouds of dust via molecular dissociation? You can't, so you choose to ignore the question entirely. No office fire or airliner impact on earth is able to do this.
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  58. anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @jpb
    You exhibit willful ignorance and evidence of Stockholm Syndrome.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOq-LbQ4erM

    You write in reply to no identified comment with only the syndrome of no brain switched on displayed. But if you are pretending to answer me please don’t bother me with that bullshitter Bollyn. Once bitten is more than enough.

    Read More
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  59. anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mulegino1
    "No planers" should more honestly be referred to as "no airlinerers" because we simply do not believe that there is any evidence that WTC 1 and 2 were struck by Boeing 767's. If this were indeed the case, why is there not a single clear real time video of an airliner hitting WTC 2? The airspace over the towers was by that time full of news helicopters with professional camera crews, yet the footage from Chopper 4, with a panoramic view of the Towers and an unobstructed view of the point of impact showed only an explosion from within the building and- upon immediate review of the video- a very small flying object (barely visible) approaching from above and to the left of WTC 2. That was no commercial airliner. What it was- stealth aircraft or a missile- is unclear.

    It appears that most or all of the faked "Holy s--t!" videos of the so called "airliner impacts" were produced by the same people. The people who produced these could not even get the approach trajectory correct. The most famous of them all, the Hezarkhani footage, shows what is alleged to be a 767 going right into WTC 2 while maintaining constant velocity, as if the building's massive steel perimeter columns and concrete floor pans provided no resistance whatsoever. This is an absolute impossibility. A 767- for the most part a thin hollow aluminum cylinder whose fuselage and delicate nose cone can be severely damaged by a collision with birds at cruising speed- would have been destroyed upon impact. Most of its components would have fallen to the street below the point of impact.

    The 9/11 airliner-office fire-gravity collapse- legend is a narrative fit only for an utterly somnolent and benighted public composed mostly of ignorant infotainment consumers. To anyone with even a modicum of critical thinking skills and rudimentary grasp of physics it is not only not credible, it is impossible. Anyone who sees the videos of the destruction of WTC 1 and 2 and still believes in the official narrative is obviously unable to tell the difference between a gravity collapse and the release of massive amounts of explosive energy sufficient to cause most of the steel and concrete components of the building to experience molecular dissociation and turn into the dust clouds that blanketed lower Manhattan. No gravity collapse or office fire on earth has the energy potential to do anything even remotely approaching this.

    Oh no! You really did make that silly “constant velocity” point. Obviously you can’t produce precise figures and calculations to give anything like a scientifically correct answer. It’s just handwaving and personal impression (your mom’s perhaps?). You inadvertently give the lie to that nonsense by remarking on the delicate structure of the aircraft. What you see is the front of thr plane crumpling very quickly so that the slowing down of the forward motion of the aircraft’s centrr of gravity is itself slowed down.
    Don’t bother to reply with more instant foolish answers because you are sure you are right however hopeless your reasoning. Just think about it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mulegino1
    You don't see anything of the kind. In the Hezarkhani video you see a plane that looks like an airliner swallowed up by a building, not colliding with it, which is impossible. The jet fuel would almost certainly have ignited at the point of impact- the perimeter- and not on the other side of the building.

    What those of you who support the official narrative do is to try to explain away all of the anomalies in order to support the narrative and you do so in Procrustean fashion, but it does not work with anyone who has even modest powers of observation and a modicum of critical thinking skills. The official version of 9/11 is ridiculous from every standpoint- the physical, the forensic, the ballistic, the chemical and the pyrotechnic. It is a kosher big lie perpetrated upon a credulous American public.
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  60. Mulegino1 says:
    @anon
    Oh no! You really did make that silly "constant velocity" point. Obviously you can't produce precise figures and calculations to give anything like a scientifically correct answer. It's just handwaving and personal impression (your mom's perhaps?). You inadvertently give the lie to that nonsense by remarking on the delicate structure of the aircraft. What you see is the front of thr plane crumpling very quickly so that the slowing down of the forward motion of the aircraft's centrr of gravity is itself slowed down.
    Don't bother to reply with more instant foolish answers because you are sure you are right however hopeless your reasoning. Just think about it.

    You don’t see anything of the kind. In the Hezarkhani video you see a plane that looks like an airliner swallowed up by a building, not colliding with it, which is impossible. The jet fuel would almost certainly have ignited at the point of impact- the perimeter- and not on the other side of the building.

    What those of you who support the official narrative do is to try to explain away all of the anomalies in order to support the narrative and you do so in Procrustean fashion, but it does not work with anyone who has even modest powers of observation and a modicum of critical thinking skills. The official version of 9/11 is ridiculous from every standpoint- the physical, the forensic, the ballistic, the chemical and the pyrotechnic. It is a kosher big lie perpetrated upon a credulous American public.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    I'm not interested in the official story but in the sometimes absurd contortions people go through to uphold a view that the obvious isn't right. The obvious starts with people, principally Osama bin Laden, who wish America harm and have both willing "martyrs" volunteering and a track record of similar suicide attacks. Those who don't like what follows include an amazing number of the truly deluded like those who think it was all CGI. Others though not deluded fail to see many important answers to their usually third hand objections. For an example that I haven't seen addressed before, some truthers pour derision on the idea that four or five men with no more formidable a weapon than a boxcutter could have highjacked a plane. What they overlook was not only the unpreparedness of everyone for such attacks but, specifically, the obvious presumption by all those on board in 2001 that the highjacking is for ransom or for escape to another country. So the reaction would have been initially not to raise the temperature and to stay calm oneself.

    You seem to have learned some of the elementary psychology behind people sticking to bad arguments but fail to apply it to yourself.

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  61. Mulegino1 says:
    @anon
    1. We surely know that hundreds of crew and passengers were lost to highjacking on 9/11. How do you explain the fate of those people and those planes?
    2. How do you explain the fact that the building struck on the lower floors fell first?
    3. If you believe there were explosives used for a demolition how come they were 20 floors apart and the planes hit precisely at the right level to cover for the demolitions?
    4. How come the demolition charges were not destroyed or detonated by the fires - with the first struck tower exploding first?

    And how do you know “that hundreds of crew and passengers were lost to highjacking on 9/11″? Because you saw it on t.v.? Because a first cousin of yours knows the brother of one of the victims’ spouses?

    Conan Doyle put it brilliantly when he had Holmes tell Watson: “Whenever you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.” A compliant and monolithic media can fabricate legends, but it cannot provide a plausible scenario for the violation of the most fundamental laws of physics.

    How do you explain the self fueling underground fires which burned for months after the events?

    How do you explain how hydrocarbon based office fires started by jet fuel turned most of the structural steel and concrete of the towers into clouds of dust via molecular dissociation? You can’t, so you choose to ignore the question entirely. No office fire or airliner impact on earth is able to do this.

    Read More
    • Replies: @DESERT FOX
    See the site Dr. Judy Wood.com, the WTC Towers and assorted buildings were taken down by a particle beam weapon.
    , @Wizard of Oz
    The "official story" prevails but could be blown out of the water by proof that the flights said to be involved never had substantial passenger or crew lists of people who were killed. Any half decent lawyer could get hold of those lists and make it possible to do at least an adequate sample check with probate records, death certificate, obituaries, family.

    As I have noted the official story prevails. The ball is in your court. If you are a serious person stop w**king on the www and organise a test.
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  62. peterAUS says:
    @anon
    There being no substance in your rhetoric let me answer with a more potent counter rhetoric "What do think the Allies were doing in post war Germany supporting a near 80 year old, who had been living quietly, to be Chancellor tesponsible for the building of a great country?

    As to Hess who died in prison in his 90s because (by my recollection) the Soviet Union wouldn't agree to his release, what could he have conceivably said in 1987 that could have embarrassed the British government in any serious way, or indeed at all? What could he have said the the Soviet Union didn't know about and could have used? You must have picked it up from some silly tabloid plagiarising The Independent on one of its really bad days when it published this silly almost contentless story:

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/adolf-hitlers-nazi-deputy-rudolf-hess-murdered-by-british-agents-to-stop-him-spilling-wartime-8802603.html
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    • Replies: @anon
    Yep, and Australia's PM in 1967 wasn't drowned when snorkelling off the rocks at an ocean beach, he was picked up by a Chinese submarine.....
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  63. Art says:

    The secret of Jew power is not the IDF, or its air force, or its nukes – it is its corps of assassins – the Mossad. They attack the Arabs not through war, but by assassinating their leaders. They kill the leaders of the PLO, Hamas, Hezbollah, and Iran – hoping to avoiding war. They even murder in cold blood Iran’s scientists. The true power in Israel is the Mossad.

    How smart is this assassin business? Killing people has consequences. At least one time it has totally backfired on the Jews. They killed the leader of Hezbollah – but his replacement, Hassan Nasralla, has become a Jew nightmare. In both Lebanon and Syria, Nasralla’s Hezbollah has been the difference between victory and defeat.

    The Jews are totally proud of their “smart” murders.

    But the war is not over.

    Think Peace — Do No Harm — Art

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  64. mcohen says:
    @Twitchy Bill
    Hizbullah has two doomsday weapons.

    (1) as a non-state actor Hizbullah can counter CIA impunity with rough justice. The US is increasingly confined to clandestine war: undeclared and not only illegal but subject to certain abatements of Geneva Convention protections for captured agents. If you need to bag another Buckley and sweat him for inculpatory evidence, Hizbullah's the pros from Dover who you go to. Russia and Iran are assembling a bill of indictment of CIA crimes of concern to the international community. Hizbullah's the bad cop. Don't like it? Go ahead, bring them to justice. In lawfare against Hizbullah, Israel will be the loser.

    https://digitalcommons.law.ggu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1121&context=annlsurvey

    (2) Hizbullah is a programmatic NGO. Programmatic NGOs provide services that do important duties of the state. This cements hearts and minds and establishes the legal basis for sovereignty. The US government is terrified of programmatic NGOs. Even in its Heimat in the USA, the government attacks programmatic NGOs with everything they've got. In Greater Palestine Hizbullah can put down the substrate for a new UAR, or a United Palestinian Republic. Hell, their tenets could unite the whole global South.

    The transition from non state actor to legal basis of sovereignty is the difference between infantry and f 35 jets.
    Drugs,protection rackets,useful thugs may pay the way short term but real power will allude.
    The spread of cheap autonomous a.i driven military hardware will change this equation.imagine a miniature self drive car that is a car bomb
    And that will be the end of that said the cat.

    Read More
    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    Your comment is unconvincing to say the least. I would imagine that the same fate awaits them as that encountered by the "invincible Israeli tanks".

    Once a majority of Americans realise who exactly has been undermining their nation and society and who has incited these disgraceful and costly wars, Israel will "stand" as a pariah state without the outrageous funding from the US taxpayer. The awareness of perpetrating 9/11 will be the kicker. Overreach R Us would seem a motto that best fits you and yours.
    , @Twitchy Bill
    Monsieur Cohen, very true. The legal basis for sovereignty is a long way off. As you know, legal sovereignty is responsibility: that is, good-faith accession to the UN Charter, the International Bill of Human Rights, and the Rome Statute - at a minimum. Since Israel routinely uses force in manifest breach of the UN Charter, flouts all three instruments of the International Bill of Human Rights, and has failed to accede to the Rome Statute, Israel has forfeited its sovereignty in law. This triggers the obligations erga omnes of the Responsibility to Protect. Hopefully the world can stop Israel's aggression, crimes against humanity, and genocide without recourse to R2P pillar 3.

    Hizbullah is clearly preparing to fill the void of Israel's catastrophic failure to protect their indigenous Palestinian majority. It takes time and patient diplomacy to demonstrate responsibility to the UN member nations that will recognize the successor state of the criminal Israeli regime.
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  65. sarz says:

    Coverage of Hezbollah is welcome, but wish the article were better written. Many sentences would not make it through English 101.

    Read More
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  66. @jilles dykstra
    Wise jews, they exist, and existed, even in Israel around the sixties, warned, when Perez began developing the atomic bomb, that it would be only a matter of time before neighbouring countries would have theses weapons too.
    The idea is that Iran does not have them, I doubt this.

    Regardless of whether Iran has nuclear weapons, their protector, Russia certainly does have them. That could be the reason for the neocon push for war on Russia. The possibility that Israel developed their nuclear weapons in a joint project with China is also part of the tale of how Israel became a nuclear power.

    If that is to be believed, then the US would be regarded as not to blame for Israel developing nuclear weapons. If this is the case, Israel would have been able to develop weapons without also developing nuclear power plants. Is this credible?

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    What happens once Putin is gone? There have been attempts on his life a few times. But once his reign comes to an end, will it be able to withstand the pressure? China can . It has centralized ideology driven deep state that will fight for itself and for its allies .

    Trump by his trade war,has exposed the obvious contradictions between the two. Some( neocons) wants China to be part of US led world or is even ready to concede China the supreme roles because the neocons think that they and their deity -Israel- would continue to enjoy the same high priest class privilege . Will China agree? So far it has sent mixed equivocal messages .
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  67. A C says:

    This is the biggest load of trash article I have EVER read on the Middle East and considering both right and left wing garbage that is out there, that is saying something.

    This reads like a straight propaganda piece written by Hizbullah. Where is the in-depth commentary regarding how much people loath Nasrallah (truth) and how Hizbullah has deliberately hidden the murderers of Rafic Hariri? Where is the investigation and comment regarding all of the political assassinations done by Hizbullah at the behest of their Syrian and Iranian overlords. Where are the interviews with people in Lebanon who had to suffer through several israeli strikes that are not Hizbullah stooges? How about speaking to Lebanese who will NEVER give legitimacy to a band of thugs and murderers.

    This is not even a semblance of journalism. It is a propaganda piece crafted to read like an article and just disgusting.

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS

    This reads like a straight propaganda piece written by Hizbullah.
     
    and

    This is not even a semblance of journalism. It is a propaganda piece crafted to read like an article and just disgusting.
     
    Agree.

    Well..one could approach that as:
    All over the MSM we see the "Hezbolllah bad", so, not bad to see something of a difference, sometimes.

    As in the About->Overview section on the top of this site.
    , @Randal
    Well, Mr A+C "No recent commenting history", now you know what it is like for actually informed people to have to read all the laughable demonising propaganda tripe about Hezbollah fed to us every day by the establishment media in the US sphere.

    If you need more interviews with Hezbollah's enemies about how horrible Hezbollah is, to feed your intentionally distorted ideas about the ME, you only need to head back to the pages of just about any major newspaper, or watch just about any major network. It's probably best for you just to do that. Your comment suggests you might seriously not be able to cope with much more journalism that doesn't have the gross slant you are used to for a while.
    , @Art
    This is the biggest load of trash article I have EVER read on the Middle East and considering both right and left wing garbage that is out there, that is saying something.

    A C,

    Oh my -- This is the biggest hasbara troll comment I have EVER read on the Middle East.

    Nasrallah is good man who looks out for his people.

    Shame on the Jews for not supporting him.

    The world knows that Netanyahu and the Israelis are the true terrorists and assassins.

    Think Peace --- Do No Harm --- Art
    , @Twodees Partain
    The way it works is that you have to know a thing or two that didn't come from a TV talking head's mouth before you can form an opinion. As it stands, you don't have an opinion.
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  68. peterAUS says:
    @A C
    This is the biggest load of trash article I have EVER read on the Middle East and considering both right and left wing garbage that is out there, that is saying something.

    This reads like a straight propaganda piece written by Hizbullah. Where is the in-depth commentary regarding how much people loath Nasrallah (truth) and how Hizbullah has deliberately hidden the murderers of Rafic Hariri? Where is the investigation and comment regarding all of the political assassinations done by Hizbullah at the behest of their Syrian and Iranian overlords. Where are the interviews with people in Lebanon who had to suffer through several israeli strikes that are not Hizbullah stooges? How about speaking to Lebanese who will NEVER give legitimacy to a band of thugs and murderers.

    This is not even a semblance of journalism. It is a propaganda piece crafted to read like an article and just disgusting.

    This reads like a straight propaganda piece written by Hizbullah.

    and

    This is not even a semblance of journalism. It is a propaganda piece crafted to read like an article and just disgusting.

    Agree.

    Well..one could approach that as:
    All over the MSM we see the “Hezbolllah bad”, so, not bad to see something of a difference, sometimes.

    As in the About->Overview section on the top of this site.

    Read More
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  69. @Mulegino1
    And how do you know "that hundreds of crew and passengers were lost to highjacking on 9/11"? Because you saw it on t.v.? Because a first cousin of yours knows the brother of one of the victims' spouses?

    Conan Doyle put it brilliantly when he had Holmes tell Watson: "Whenever you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." A compliant and monolithic media can fabricate legends, but it cannot provide a plausible scenario for the violation of the most fundamental laws of physics.

    How do you explain the self fueling underground fires which burned for months after the events?

    How do you explain how hydrocarbon based office fires started by jet fuel turned most of the structural steel and concrete of the towers into clouds of dust via molecular dissociation? You can't, so you choose to ignore the question entirely. No office fire or airliner impact on earth is able to do this.

    See the site Dr. Judy Wood.com, the WTC Towers and assorted buildings were taken down by a particle beam weapon.

    Read More
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  70. Randal says:
    @A C
    This is the biggest load of trash article I have EVER read on the Middle East and considering both right and left wing garbage that is out there, that is saying something.

    This reads like a straight propaganda piece written by Hizbullah. Where is the in-depth commentary regarding how much people loath Nasrallah (truth) and how Hizbullah has deliberately hidden the murderers of Rafic Hariri? Where is the investigation and comment regarding all of the political assassinations done by Hizbullah at the behest of their Syrian and Iranian overlords. Where are the interviews with people in Lebanon who had to suffer through several israeli strikes that are not Hizbullah stooges? How about speaking to Lebanese who will NEVER give legitimacy to a band of thugs and murderers.

    This is not even a semblance of journalism. It is a propaganda piece crafted to read like an article and just disgusting.

    Well, Mr A+C “No recent commenting history”, now you know what it is like for actually informed people to have to read all the laughable demonising propaganda tripe about Hezbollah fed to us every day by the establishment media in the US sphere.

    If you need more interviews with Hezbollah’s enemies about how horrible Hezbollah is, to feed your intentionally distorted ideas about the ME, you only need to head back to the pages of just about any major newspaper, or watch just about any major network. It’s probably best for you just to do that. Your comment suggests you might seriously not be able to cope with much more journalism that doesn’t have the gross slant you are used to for a while.

    Read More
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  71. Art says:
    @A C
    This is the biggest load of trash article I have EVER read on the Middle East and considering both right and left wing garbage that is out there, that is saying something.

    This reads like a straight propaganda piece written by Hizbullah. Where is the in-depth commentary regarding how much people loath Nasrallah (truth) and how Hizbullah has deliberately hidden the murderers of Rafic Hariri? Where is the investigation and comment regarding all of the political assassinations done by Hizbullah at the behest of their Syrian and Iranian overlords. Where are the interviews with people in Lebanon who had to suffer through several israeli strikes that are not Hizbullah stooges? How about speaking to Lebanese who will NEVER give legitimacy to a band of thugs and murderers.

    This is not even a semblance of journalism. It is a propaganda piece crafted to read like an article and just disgusting.

    This is the biggest load of trash article I have EVER read on the Middle East and considering both right and left wing garbage that is out there, that is saying something.

    A C,

    Oh my — This is the biggest hasbara troll comment I have EVER read on the Middle East.

    Nasrallah is good man who looks out for his people.

    Shame on the Jews for not supporting him.

    The world knows that Netanyahu and the Israelis are the true terrorists and assassins.

    Think Peace — Do No Harm — Art

    Read More
    • Replies: @A C
    I am Lebanese. I have seen what these people do up close and personal. I am not Jewish nor have I ever seen the inside of Israel or Palestine. I don't care to see them as I have no fondness at all for the area.

    What I do care about is the sanitizing of a militia that commits murder every time their leash is pulled by their masters. I care about the fact that this writer has written the most bias piece of garbage on this topic I have ever read.

    Do you speak Arabic fluently? I do. I see all of Nasrallah's speeches. all of them. in his native language. Believe me, this sanitizing is not a good thing.
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  72. Begemot says:
    @peterAUS
    Twice a?
    That's the spirit.
    Admire passionate people with a cause.

    If I may:

    Why did you post it here?
     
    Uhm....free speech?

    Don’t you know their zionist line?
     
    I do.

    Don’t you know that they have nothing but LIES.
     
    Such as?
    There are, probably, something of a truth in that document. Ah, yes, you haven't read it. Makes sense. Sort of...in a certain way.

    I assume you are from the criminal tribe, otherwise you wouldn’t DARE TO POST IT HERE
     
    Curious. Why not?
    I mean, what should I be "daring about"?
    Enlighten me, please.

    These ‘writers’ are working for the war criminals where no one should trust them.
     
    I see. Passion for sure.
    So, we can't trust war criminals. Probably.
    But......should we at least try to hear them? You know, free speech and making own mind?

    So...assumption wise, I can also do that. I assume you are one of those at the receiving end of Israel power there. O.K. You don't want to listen to those enemies of you. Sounds.....interesting.
    Let me guess: you get all you need to know from your elders/superiors/higher ups. Sounds.....liberating. No need to think. Just to feel. Makes sense.

    Anyway....you guys ready for the next round against IDF?

    We can see that the Israeli military is very capable when going up against the unarmed. The Passover Massacre was the latest IDF victory. Even the Wehrmacht couldn’t get kill ratios like that against the Soviets. I can see why you think they’re so good. However, that isn’t good training for battle against real men. Your confidence may be misplaced.

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    This is just a bait but I'll go with it.
    Maybe somebody else will come with something of a substance.

    I can see why you think they’re so good.
     
    Doubt it.
    They are not as good as their opponents there are so bad.

    However, that isn’t good training for battle against real men.
     
    Neither is Hezbollah engagement in Syria good training for fighting against IDF.

    Your confidence may be misplaced.
     
    Works both ways.
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  73. @mcohen
    The transition from non state actor to legal basis of sovereignty is the difference between infantry and f 35 jets.
    Drugs,protection rackets,useful thugs may pay the way short term but real power will allude.
    The spread of cheap autonomous a.i driven military hardware will change this equation.imagine a miniature self drive car that is a car bomb
    And that will be the end of that said the cat.

    Your comment is unconvincing to say the least. I would imagine that the same fate awaits them as that encountered by the “invincible Israeli tanks”.

    Once a majority of Americans realise who exactly has been undermining their nation and society and who has incited these disgraceful and costly wars, Israel will “stand” as a pariah state without the outrageous funding from the US taxpayer. The awareness of perpetrating 9/11 will be the kicker. Overreach R Us would seem a motto that best fits you and yours.

    Read More
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  74. peterAUS says:
    @Begemot
    We can see that the Israeli military is very capable when going up against the unarmed. The Passover Massacre was the latest IDF victory. Even the Wehrmacht couldn't get kill ratios like that against the Soviets. I can see why you think they're so good. However, that isn't good training for battle against real men. Your confidence may be misplaced.

    This is just a bait but I’ll go with it.
    Maybe somebody else will come with something of a substance.

    I can see why you think they’re so good.

    Doubt it.
    They are not as good as their opponents there are so bad.

    However, that isn’t good training for battle against real men.

    Neither is Hezbollah engagement in Syria good training for fighting against IDF.

    Your confidence may be misplaced.

    Works both ways.

    Read More
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  75. @A C
    This is the biggest load of trash article I have EVER read on the Middle East and considering both right and left wing garbage that is out there, that is saying something.

    This reads like a straight propaganda piece written by Hizbullah. Where is the in-depth commentary regarding how much people loath Nasrallah (truth) and how Hizbullah has deliberately hidden the murderers of Rafic Hariri? Where is the investigation and comment regarding all of the political assassinations done by Hizbullah at the behest of their Syrian and Iranian overlords. Where are the interviews with people in Lebanon who had to suffer through several israeli strikes that are not Hizbullah stooges? How about speaking to Lebanese who will NEVER give legitimacy to a band of thugs and murderers.

    This is not even a semblance of journalism. It is a propaganda piece crafted to read like an article and just disgusting.

    The way it works is that you have to know a thing or two that didn’t come from a TV talking head’s mouth before you can form an opinion. As it stands, you don’t have an opinion.

    Read More
    • Replies: @A C
    Thanks for assuming I am too stupid to form an opinion outside of what a talking head tells me. I am lebanese. I have lived in Lebanon, I have seen up close and personal what Hizbullah does and what they are capable of.

    Have you?
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  76. anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mulegino1
    You don't see anything of the kind. In the Hezarkhani video you see a plane that looks like an airliner swallowed up by a building, not colliding with it, which is impossible. The jet fuel would almost certainly have ignited at the point of impact- the perimeter- and not on the other side of the building.

    What those of you who support the official narrative do is to try to explain away all of the anomalies in order to support the narrative and you do so in Procrustean fashion, but it does not work with anyone who has even modest powers of observation and a modicum of critical thinking skills. The official version of 9/11 is ridiculous from every standpoint- the physical, the forensic, the ballistic, the chemical and the pyrotechnic. It is a kosher big lie perpetrated upon a credulous American public.

    I’m not interested in the official story but in the sometimes absurd contortions people go through to uphold a view that the obvious isn’t right. The obvious starts with people, principally Osama bin Laden, who wish America harm and have both willing “martyrs” volunteering and a track record of similar suicide attacks. Those who don’t like what follows include an amazing number of the truly deluded like those who think it was all CGI. Others though not deluded fail to see many important answers to their usually third hand objections. For an example that I haven’t seen addressed before, some truthers pour derision on the idea that four or five men with no more formidable a weapon than a boxcutter could have highjacked a plane. What they overlook was not only the unpreparedness of everyone for such attacks but, specifically, the obvious presumption by all those on board in 2001 that the highjacking is for ransom or for escape to another country. So the reaction would have been initially not to raise the temperature and to stay calm oneself.

    You seem to have learned some of the elementary psychology behind people sticking to bad arguments but fail to apply it to yourself.

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    So...what's your take on the "Number 7?
    Wasn't hit by a plane, got on fire by debris...got on fire.....and....collapsed.
    Shoddy workmanship?

    Now...I've seen plenty of houses put on fire, by different means (from tank and artillery fire, through various versions of RPG to satchel charges and pure......improvisations....). Or so I say.
    All got on fire.
    Not one collapsed.
    Not.......one..........
    In a third world country, and some of them rather similar to the "Number 7".

    So....what's so SPECIAL about that building?
    , @Mulegino1
    What is for you "obvious" is certainly not "right", since it is merely an officially sanctioned narrative manufactured by the media at the behest of officialdom, constructed from the top down, unlike a real case constructed upon a painstaking evaluation of factual evidence. The narrative starts out with a media driven pronouncement, "Osama bin Laden, box cutters, 19 hijackers, commercial airliners hitting buildings, collapse due to office fires, etc."

    In reality, there were no "collapses." The destruction of WTC 1, 2, 7 (along with the entire core of WTC 6) did not involve "collapses", it involved the disintegration of most of the metallic and concrete components of the Twin Towers via explosive energy, and the implosion of WTC 7 in a more conventional manner. When dealing with steel and concrete skyscrapers, fire damage is never going to lead to symmetrical and universal collapse at free fall acceleration. It will not happen and it did not happen on 9/11.
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  77. anon[807] • Disclaimer says:
    @Twodees Partain
    Regardless of whether Iran has nuclear weapons, their protector, Russia certainly does have them. That could be the reason for the neocon push for war on Russia. The possibility that Israel developed their nuclear weapons in a joint project with China is also part of the tale of how Israel became a nuclear power.

    If that is to be believed, then the US would be regarded as not to blame for Israel developing nuclear weapons. If this is the case, Israel would have been able to develop weapons without also developing nuclear power plants. Is this credible?

    What happens once Putin is gone? There have been attempts on his life a few times. But once his reign comes to an end, will it be able to withstand the pressure? China can . It has centralized ideology driven deep state that will fight for itself and for its allies .

    Trump by his trade war,has exposed the obvious contradictions between the two. Some( neocons) wants China to be part of US led world or is even ready to concede China the supreme roles because the neocons think that they and their deity -Israel- would continue to enjoy the same high priest class privilege . Will China agree? So far it has sent mixed equivocal messages .

    Read More
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  78. anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @peterAUS
    https://www.amazon.com/Double-Standards-Lynn-Picknett/dp/0751532207

    Yep, and Australia’s PM in 1967 wasn’t drowned when snorkelling off the rocks at an ocean beach, he was picked up by a Chinese submarine…..

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    Three options:

    One:
    You read the book before. Doubt it, somehow. Very much so.

    Two:
    You read the book just now.
    Whooaaahh........

    What a fast reader. Man.........you are........amazing.
    Took me a couple of weeks to go through all that.
    Whoahh.......

    How do you do that?
    Or, wait...you don't. You do it even better. You establish some....mystical...connection with a book and, voila....all yours.
    You are simply.......amazing. Amazing.

    Unfortunately, doubt it too. If you had such ability you wouldn't be posting here. Mere mortals etc....

    Three:
    Let's leave that out of polite conversation here.

    I'd go for three.
    Keyword "easy".
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  79. @Mulegino1
    And how do you know "that hundreds of crew and passengers were lost to highjacking on 9/11"? Because you saw it on t.v.? Because a first cousin of yours knows the brother of one of the victims' spouses?

    Conan Doyle put it brilliantly when he had Holmes tell Watson: "Whenever you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." A compliant and monolithic media can fabricate legends, but it cannot provide a plausible scenario for the violation of the most fundamental laws of physics.

    How do you explain the self fueling underground fires which burned for months after the events?

    How do you explain how hydrocarbon based office fires started by jet fuel turned most of the structural steel and concrete of the towers into clouds of dust via molecular dissociation? You can't, so you choose to ignore the question entirely. No office fire or airliner impact on earth is able to do this.

    The “official story” prevails but could be blown out of the water by proof that the flights said to be involved never had substantial passenger or crew lists of people who were killed. Any half decent lawyer could get hold of those lists and make it possible to do at least an adequate sample check with probate records, death certificate, obituaries, family.

    As I have noted the official story prevails. The ball is in your court. If you are a serious person stop w**king on the www and organise a test.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mulegino1
    The official story "prevails" only in the imagination of that portion of the public that is too lazy or ignorant to either care or look into the facts, which clearly prove it to be an utter fantasy.

    You are correct about the "test", but such a thing would be superfluous. Anyone familiar with rudimentary ballistics knows that, in order to penetrate structural steel, armor piercing ammunition is required. What kind of round is capable of penetrating a perimeter box column at the alleged point of impact of WTC 2? We are talking about 1/2" of structural steel (not to mention the steel spandrels, which were much thicker and stronger). Would it be a hollow aluminum bullet with a rounded nose (which is what a Boeing 767 was) or an armor piercing round with a sharpened and hardened alloy tip, an alloy jacket and a solid steel core? Since the airliners were allegedly used as missiles, then ballistics enters into the equation.

    But the above is only one in a series of questions. Can a building collapse due to fire damage? Of course it can. Has a steel and concrete skyscraper-other than WTC 1,2 and 7- ever collapsed due to hydrocarbon based fire damage? No. What is the likelihood that twin towers x and z would- although supposedly struck in different areas and levels, "collapse" in the exact same symmetrical manner and approaching (or even exceeding) free fall acceleration- and that most of their steel and concrete components would experience molecular dissociation and form a cloud of hot, toxic dust due to "office fires"? Zero.
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  80. peterAUS says:
    @anon
    I'm not interested in the official story but in the sometimes absurd contortions people go through to uphold a view that the obvious isn't right. The obvious starts with people, principally Osama bin Laden, who wish America harm and have both willing "martyrs" volunteering and a track record of similar suicide attacks. Those who don't like what follows include an amazing number of the truly deluded like those who think it was all CGI. Others though not deluded fail to see many important answers to their usually third hand objections. For an example that I haven't seen addressed before, some truthers pour derision on the idea that four or five men with no more formidable a weapon than a boxcutter could have highjacked a plane. What they overlook was not only the unpreparedness of everyone for such attacks but, specifically, the obvious presumption by all those on board in 2001 that the highjacking is for ransom or for escape to another country. So the reaction would have been initially not to raise the temperature and to stay calm oneself.

    You seem to have learned some of the elementary psychology behind people sticking to bad arguments but fail to apply it to yourself.

    So…what’s your take on the “Number 7?
    Wasn’t hit by a plane, got on fire by debris…got on fire…..and….collapsed.
    Shoddy workmanship?

    Now…I’ve seen plenty of houses put on fire, by different means (from tank and artillery fire, through various versions of RPG to satchel charges and pure……improvisations….). Or so I say.
    All got on fire.
    Not one collapsed.
    Not…….one……….
    In a third world country, and some of them rather similar to the “Number 7″.

    So….what’s so SPECIAL about that building?

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    To stick to this article though.
    In that part of the world we've seen PLENTY of houses put on fire by all means imaginable.
    Can anyone point to one documented case when a house on fire collapsed onto itself as the "Number 7"?

    Just....one..........case.....

    From Lebanon '82, through Iraq '91 and '03.
    When we are on the same topic you are free to use examples of NATO bombing of Yugoslavia too.
    Including Yugoslav forces "work" on Kosovo (and those forces weren't gentle in dealing with structures to put it mildly).
    Actually, when we are on the same topic any example in Balkan wars from '91. There were regions there deliberately put on fire (part of ethnic cleansing) and not one collapsed.
    Ah, yes, Libya too.
    And the gem ...Syria. Take a look at sheer devastation there.

    And in all that I can't recollect one building behaving as the "Number 7".

    So.....?!

    I guess that we'll have to settle for American shoddy workmanship. And nowhere else. Including ME.
    Funny.

    Actually, it has to be a fuel from a burning civilian plane and shoddy worksmanship.
    Granted....that combination hasn't been seen anywhere in those "conflicts".
    Yes...that's it.
    Explained.

    Moving on. Facebook and shopping await.

    , @Wizard of Oz
    All of the towers were built to new discretionary standards and specs which, crucially perhaps, allowed for a lot less concrete to be used. The idea that WTC 7 was demolished as part of a plot that was obviously intended to involve as little reason for suspicion as possible is ridiculous. It added and could have added nothing to the political outcome but added complexity and added likelihood of the conspiracy unravelling or being exposed. (The idea that there were some records there that someone wanted destroyed presupposes that it was guaranteed there were no copies elsewhere).

    In fact the burning all day from a small beginning in WTC 7 fits very well the explanation of the time it took for the North and South Towers to collapse after impact. Where the effect of heat weakened steel was enhanced by there being the weight of an extra 18 floors above the level of impact the building collapsed in a much shorter time. The WTC 7 collapse took all day. No surprise if you just asdume that the collapses were a product of mass above the heat weakened steel and the weakening of the steel.

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  81. Mike-SMO says:

    A few points jump out of this “conversation” to a non-Israel, non-neo-con, non-Russian observer:

    1) The interview mentions prisoner exchange with Israel suggesting that there was an active program being conducted against Israel and that some of the agents/players/etc had been captured. Israel was then, in some sense, under attack and not exactly a simple aggressor, and the attacks into Lebanon might well have been “provoked”.

    2) The pipeline (or some means of passage) seems reasonable since it seems clear that the Sunni Arab “core” was being “encircled” by Shia/Iranian activity from Yemen around to the Med. Why would a pipeline/railroad/air corridor have been so unreasonable to consider? Maybe nothing concrete was accomplished but such a “safe” transport route would seem to make sense to the Sunni Arabs in the face of potential envelopement by “unfriendly” interests.

    3) The cooperation between the Shia forces and others makes tactical sense especially in comparison to the intolerance typically reported for Sunni actors. It was, indeed, useful against ISIS/ISIL and their associates, and maybe an extention of the Alawi “tolerance” in Syria, but the heavy dominance of the Shia/Hizbullah faction does not suggest much of an effective future for other players, especially if future actions against Israel are part of the “plan”.

    4) Israel is mentioned as a cause for the “troubles” but the conclict seems to actually be centered on Sunni/Shia and Turkish/Kurdish/Arab stresses, not to mention the Muslim Brotherhood/Hamas/Palestinian activities. Israel almost seems to be more of an “excuse” or post-facto justification for some other, long-running disputes.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    Can't address all the sopohtry presented as reasons here as analytical exercises but this quote will take care of no-4 and the rest will topple over each other



    "The invasion of Iraq had been promoted in part as a way to bring democracy to the region and help Israel. Now she argued that because the turmoil in Iraq had led to the rise of Iran, the collective fear of the Sunni world would make Arabs more willing to strike a deal with Israel….

    The Confidante: Condoleezza Rice and the Creation of the Bush Legacy

    Glenn Kessler (Author)

    Now to help you a bit further , go back to 1900 when the powers were courted by Zionist for a country in Palestine in exchange of protecting existing interests or creating new opportunities .

    USA has allowed itself to be stretched logically conceptually and ideologically from one spot to the next from 1965 by Israel openly and collaboratelly . Many examples . One is this simple - America is going to liberate Kuwait ( not liberating Palestine or Golan ) and from there more demands and conditions followed until US ran out of conditions and demands ( unless suicidal capituutaltion of Saddam was included ).
    The ideological talking points underlying these demands have come from AIPAC and like minded incestous bodies.
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  82. @peterAUS
    Twice a?
    That's the spirit.
    Admire passionate people with a cause.

    If I may:

    Why did you post it here?
     
    Uhm....free speech?

    Don’t you know their zionist line?
     
    I do.

    Don’t you know that they have nothing but LIES.
     
    Such as?
    There are, probably, something of a truth in that document. Ah, yes, you haven't read it. Makes sense. Sort of...in a certain way.

    I assume you are from the criminal tribe, otherwise you wouldn’t DARE TO POST IT HERE
     
    Curious. Why not?
    I mean, what should I be "daring about"?
    Enlighten me, please.

    These ‘writers’ are working for the war criminals where no one should trust them.
     
    I see. Passion for sure.
    So, we can't trust war criminals. Probably.
    But......should we at least try to hear them? You know, free speech and making own mind?

    So...assumption wise, I can also do that. I assume you are one of those at the receiving end of Israel power there. O.K. You don't want to listen to those enemies of you. Sounds.....interesting.
    Let me guess: you get all you need to know from your elders/superiors/higher ups. Sounds.....liberating. No need to think. Just to feel. Makes sense.

    Anyway....you guys ready for the next round against IDF?

    That analysis doesn’t even make the IDF look good. In fact it shows how weak the IDF really is. Even Nasrallah* would probably agree with most of it. But because it isn’t pure Saker/Southfront propaganda it was apparently enough to blow a few gaskets here.

    I like to troll, but this is just depressing. It isn’t healthy for people to walk around carrying so much delusion and hate; whether it be for Jews or anyone else.

    *Funny story about Nasrallah. According to Israeli intelligence he has a rare genetic disorder that makes him unable to lie. He is like a real life version of Jim Carey’s character from “Liar Liar”. For his part, Nasrallah claims that he can lie, he just generally chooses not to.

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS

    But because it isn’t pure Saker/Southfront propaganda it was apparently enough to blow a few gaskets here.
     
    Of course.

    ...this is just depressing
     
    Not really.
    People blow their gaskets over debating "vegan" vs "vegetarian".

    Whatever people posting here like to believe about themselves they are the same as everywhere else on the Internet. This site is exactly as the rest of the Internet except for the fact that the owner and mods allow different and conflicting opinions. That's the only ...only...difference. I believe it's the most important one.
    Hint: "ignore" button. Keeps the noise out and the air clean.

    For his part, Nasrallah claims that he can lie, he just generally chooses not to
     
    A person engaged in professional politics who does not lie. Now, that is funny.
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  83. peterAUS says:
    @peterAUS
    So...what's your take on the "Number 7?
    Wasn't hit by a plane, got on fire by debris...got on fire.....and....collapsed.
    Shoddy workmanship?

    Now...I've seen plenty of houses put on fire, by different means (from tank and artillery fire, through various versions of RPG to satchel charges and pure......improvisations....). Or so I say.
    All got on fire.
    Not one collapsed.
    Not.......one..........
    In a third world country, and some of them rather similar to the "Number 7".

    So....what's so SPECIAL about that building?

    To stick to this article though.
    In that part of the world we’ve seen PLENTY of houses put on fire by all means imaginable.
    Can anyone point to one documented case when a house on fire collapsed onto itself as the “Number 7″?

    Just….one……….case…..

    From Lebanon ’82, through Iraq ’91 and ’03.
    When we are on the same topic you are free to use examples of NATO bombing of Yugoslavia too.
    Including Yugoslav forces “work” on Kosovo (and those forces weren’t gentle in dealing with structures to put it mildly).
    Actually, when we are on the same topic any example in Balkan wars from ’91. There were regions there deliberately put on fire (part of ethnic cleansing) and not one collapsed.
    Ah, yes, Libya too.
    And the gem …Syria. Take a look at sheer devastation there.

    And in all that I can’t recollect one building behaving as the “Number 7″.

    So…..?!

    I guess that we’ll have to settle for American shoddy workmanship. And nowhere else. Including ME.
    Funny.

    Actually, it has to be a fuel from a burning civilian plane and shoddy worksmanship.
    Granted….that combination hasn’t been seen anywhere in those “conflicts”.
    Yes…that’s it.
    Explained.

    Moving on. Facebook and shopping await.

    Read More
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  84. peterAUS says:
    @anon
    Yep, and Australia's PM in 1967 wasn't drowned when snorkelling off the rocks at an ocean beach, he was picked up by a Chinese submarine.....

    Three options:

    One:
    You read the book before. Doubt it, somehow. Very much so.

    Two:
    You read the book just now.
    Whooaaahh……..

    What a fast reader. Man………you are……..amazing.
    Took me a couple of weeks to go through all that.
    Whoahh…….

    How do you do that?
    Or, wait…you don’t. You do it even better. You establish some….mystical…connection with a book and, voila….all yours.
    You are simply…….amazing. Amazing.

    Unfortunately, doubt it too. If you had such ability you wouldn’t be posting here. Mere mortals etc….

    Three:
    Let’s leave that out of polite conversation here.

    I’d go for three.
    Keyword “easy”.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    If you are just now making up for 30 years of knowing nothing about the relevant history you can believe that there are embarrassments for the Royal Family still to be spilled that are not a yawn for those with some regular knowledge of the last 80 years of British history. There is also good evidence that Bormann had sidelined Hess, Hitler's nominal deputy, and that Hitler was furious at Hess's folly and the embarrassment it caused Hitler. So what that on some occasion he might have dropped a facesaving hint that it was all his brilliant idea for a Machiavellian purpose. Of course it was Hess that jumped into Great Britain and ended his days in his 90s in Spandau. I hope you haven't paid for a shyster's BS.
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  85. @peterAUS
    So...what's your take on the "Number 7?
    Wasn't hit by a plane, got on fire by debris...got on fire.....and....collapsed.
    Shoddy workmanship?

    Now...I've seen plenty of houses put on fire, by different means (from tank and artillery fire, through various versions of RPG to satchel charges and pure......improvisations....). Or so I say.
    All got on fire.
    Not one collapsed.
    Not.......one..........
    In a third world country, and some of them rather similar to the "Number 7".

    So....what's so SPECIAL about that building?

    All of the towers were built to new discretionary standards and specs which, crucially perhaps, allowed for a lot less concrete to be used. The idea that WTC 7 was demolished as part of a plot that was obviously intended to involve as little reason for suspicion as possible is ridiculous. It added and could have added nothing to the political outcome but added complexity and added likelihood of the conspiracy unravelling or being exposed. (The idea that there were some records there that someone wanted destroyed presupposes that it was guaranteed there were no copies elsewhere).

    In fact the burning all day from a small beginning in WTC 7 fits very well the explanation of the time it took for the North and South Towers to collapse after impact. Where the effect of heat weakened steel was enhanced by there being the weight of an extra 18 floors above the level of impact the building collapsed in a much shorter time. The WTC 7 collapse took all day. No surprise if you just asdume that the collapses were a product of mass above the heat weakened steel and the weakening of the steel.

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS

    The WTC 7 collapse took all day. No surprise if you just asdume that the collapses were a product of mass above the heat weakened steel and the weakening of the steel.
     
    Can't say it's implausible.

    Still, my point remains: not ONCE in a rich history of urban warfare and destruction we've seen the same outcome.
    Not..........once......
    In fact, there have been documented cases of similar buildings, fires etc...and ..no collapse. Not....once.

    Makes this case rather unique.
    Could make people a bit curious, even suspicious.

    As for US Government telling the truth to the public.. let alone that one, actually any Government, let's just stop there.
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  86. anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @peterAUS
    Three options:

    One:
    You read the book before. Doubt it, somehow. Very much so.

    Two:
    You read the book just now.
    Whooaaahh........

    What a fast reader. Man.........you are........amazing.
    Took me a couple of weeks to go through all that.
    Whoahh.......

    How do you do that?
    Or, wait...you don't. You do it even better. You establish some....mystical...connection with a book and, voila....all yours.
    You are simply.......amazing. Amazing.

    Unfortunately, doubt it too. If you had such ability you wouldn't be posting here. Mere mortals etc....

    Three:
    Let's leave that out of polite conversation here.

    I'd go for three.
    Keyword "easy".

    If you are just now making up for 30 years of knowing nothing about the relevant history you can believe that there are embarrassments for the Royal Family still to be spilled that are not a yawn for those with some regular knowledge of the last 80 years of British history. There is also good evidence that Bormann had sidelined Hess, Hitler’s nominal deputy, and that Hitler was furious at Hess’s folly and the embarrassment it caused Hitler. So what that on some occasion he might have dropped a facesaving hint that it was all his brilliant idea for a Machiavellian purpose. Of course it was Hess that jumped into Great Britain and ended his days in his 90s in Spandau. I hope you haven’t paid for a shyster’s BS.

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    Ah, you do know about the topic.

    So....a simple question then:
    Why keeping that man incarcerated so long?
    The cost, a lot of work....feels a bit over the top.
    Or not?
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  87. @mcohen
    The transition from non state actor to legal basis of sovereignty is the difference between infantry and f 35 jets.
    Drugs,protection rackets,useful thugs may pay the way short term but real power will allude.
    The spread of cheap autonomous a.i driven military hardware will change this equation.imagine a miniature self drive car that is a car bomb
    And that will be the end of that said the cat.

    Monsieur Cohen, very true. The legal basis for sovereignty is a long way off. As you know, legal sovereignty is responsibility: that is, good-faith accession to the UN Charter, the International Bill of Human Rights, and the Rome Statute – at a minimum. Since Israel routinely uses force in manifest breach of the UN Charter, flouts all three instruments of the International Bill of Human Rights, and has failed to accede to the Rome Statute, Israel has forfeited its sovereignty in law. This triggers the obligations erga omnes of the Responsibility to Protect. Hopefully the world can stop Israel’s aggression, crimes against humanity, and genocide without recourse to R2P pillar 3.

    Hizbullah is clearly preparing to fill the void of Israel’s catastrophic failure to protect their indigenous Palestinian majority. It takes time and patient diplomacy to demonstrate responsibility to the UN member nations that will recognize the successor state of the criminal Israeli regime.

    Read More
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  88. peterAUS says:
    @Greasy William
    That analysis doesn't even make the IDF look good. In fact it shows how weak the IDF really is. Even Nasrallah* would probably agree with most of it. But because it isn't pure Saker/Southfront propaganda it was apparently enough to blow a few gaskets here.

    I like to troll, but this is just depressing. It isn't healthy for people to walk around carrying so much delusion and hate; whether it be for Jews or anyone else.


    *Funny story about Nasrallah. According to Israeli intelligence he has a rare genetic disorder that makes him unable to lie. He is like a real life version of Jim Carey's character from "Liar Liar". For his part, Nasrallah claims that he can lie, he just generally chooses not to.

    But because it isn’t pure Saker/Southfront propaganda it was apparently enough to blow a few gaskets here.

    Of course.

    …this is just depressing

    Not really.
    People blow their gaskets over debating “vegan” vs “vegetarian”.

    Whatever people posting here like to believe about themselves they are the same as everywhere else on the Internet. This site is exactly as the rest of the Internet except for the fact that the owner and mods allow different and conflicting opinions. That’s the only …only…difference. I believe it’s the most important one.
    Hint: “ignore” button. Keeps the noise out and the air clean.

    For his part, Nasrallah claims that he can lie, he just generally chooses not to

    A person engaged in professional politics who does not lie. Now, that is funny.

    Read More
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  89. peterAUS says:
    @anon
    If you are just now making up for 30 years of knowing nothing about the relevant history you can believe that there are embarrassments for the Royal Family still to be spilled that are not a yawn for those with some regular knowledge of the last 80 years of British history. There is also good evidence that Bormann had sidelined Hess, Hitler's nominal deputy, and that Hitler was furious at Hess's folly and the embarrassment it caused Hitler. So what that on some occasion he might have dropped a facesaving hint that it was all his brilliant idea for a Machiavellian purpose. Of course it was Hess that jumped into Great Britain and ended his days in his 90s in Spandau. I hope you haven't paid for a shyster's BS.

    Ah, you do know about the topic.

    So….a simple question then:
    Why keeping that man incarcerated so long?
    The cost, a lot of work….feels a bit over the top.
    Or not?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Johnny Rico

    Other than his stays in hospital, Hess spent the rest of his life in Spandau Prison.[123] His fellow inmates Konstantin von Neurath, Walther Funk and Erich Raeder were released because of poor health in the 1950s;[124] Karl Dönitz, Baldur von Schirach, and Albert Speer served their time and were released; Dönitz in 1956, Schirach and Speer in 1966.[125] The 600-cell prison continued to be maintained for its lone prisoner from Speer and Schirach's release until Hess's death in 1987, at an estimated cost of DM 800,000.[126] Conditions were far more pleasant in the 1980s than in the early years; Hess was allowed to move more freely around the cell block, setting his own routine and choosing his own activities, which included television, films, reading and gardening. A lift was installed so he could more readily access the garden, and he was provided with a medical orderly from 1982 onward.[118]

    Numerous appeals for Hess's release were launched by his lawyer, Dr Alfred Seidl, beginning as early as 1947. These were denied, mainly because the Soviets repeatedly vetoed the proposal. Spandau was located in West Berlin, and its existence gave the Soviets a foothold in that sector of the city. Additionally, Soviet officials believed Hess must have known in 1941 that an attack on their country was imminent.[127] In 1967 Wolf Rüdiger Hess began a campaign to win his father's release, garnering support from notable politicians such as Geoffrey Lawrence, 1st Baron Oaksey[a] in Britain and Willy Brandt in Germany, but to no avail, in spite of the prisoner's advanced age and deteriorating health.[128][129]
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Hess
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  90. Reading about all those Middle-Eastern/North-African/Sub-Saharan African Youth Bulge Wars (TM) is so tiresome.

    Unz.com should not become a propaganda-channel for any of those factions/groups.

    Let them slaughter each-other and then make deals with the winners.

    The West/Far East/America has got the capital/tech/consumer-goods, these war-winners have to cut a deal with us anyway.

    Just keep their Young Angry Men away. They are troublesome.

    Cheers

    Read More
    • Replies: @MEexpert

    Let them slaughter each-other and then make deals with the winners.
     
    It is the Americans and the Europeans, including Germans, that are doing the slaughtering. Keep your young killers at home and there will not be any problem in the Middle East. The West is expert in making deals with "winners." At this rate there will not be any winner left for the West to make deals.
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  91. @peterAUS
    Ah, you do know about the topic.

    So....a simple question then:
    Why keeping that man incarcerated so long?
    The cost, a lot of work....feels a bit over the top.
    Or not?

    Other than his stays in hospital, Hess spent the rest of his life in Spandau Prison.[123] His fellow inmates Konstantin von Neurath, Walther Funk and Erich Raeder were released because of poor health in the 1950s;[124] Karl Dönitz, Baldur von Schirach, and Albert Speer served their time and were released; Dönitz in 1956, Schirach and Speer in 1966.[125] The 600-cell prison continued to be maintained for its lone prisoner from Speer and Schirach’s release until Hess’s death in 1987, at an estimated cost of DM 800,000.[126] Conditions were far more pleasant in the 1980s than in the early years; Hess was allowed to move more freely around the cell block, setting his own routine and choosing his own activities, which included television, films, reading and gardening. A lift was installed so he could more readily access the garden, and he was provided with a medical orderly from 1982 onward.[118]

    Numerous appeals for Hess’s release were launched by his lawyer, Dr Alfred Seidl, beginning as early as 1947. These were denied, mainly because the Soviets repeatedly vetoed the proposal. Spandau was located in West Berlin, and its existence gave the Soviets a foothold in that sector of the city. Additionally, Soviet officials believed Hess must have known in 1941 that an attack on their country was imminent.[127] In 1967 Wolf Rüdiger Hess began a campaign to win his father’s release, garnering support from notable politicians such as Geoffrey Lawrence, 1st Baron Oaksey[a] in Britain and Willy Brandt in Germany, but to no avail, in spite of the prisoner’s advanced age and deteriorating health.[128][129]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Hess

    Read More
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  92. peterAUS says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    All of the towers were built to new discretionary standards and specs which, crucially perhaps, allowed for a lot less concrete to be used. The idea that WTC 7 was demolished as part of a plot that was obviously intended to involve as little reason for suspicion as possible is ridiculous. It added and could have added nothing to the political outcome but added complexity and added likelihood of the conspiracy unravelling or being exposed. (The idea that there were some records there that someone wanted destroyed presupposes that it was guaranteed there were no copies elsewhere).

    In fact the burning all day from a small beginning in WTC 7 fits very well the explanation of the time it took for the North and South Towers to collapse after impact. Where the effect of heat weakened steel was enhanced by there being the weight of an extra 18 floors above the level of impact the building collapsed in a much shorter time. The WTC 7 collapse took all day. No surprise if you just asdume that the collapses were a product of mass above the heat weakened steel and the weakening of the steel.

    The WTC 7 collapse took all day. No surprise if you just asdume that the collapses were a product of mass above the heat weakened steel and the weakening of the steel.

    Can’t say it’s implausible.

    Still, my point remains: not ONCE in a rich history of urban warfare and destruction we’ve seen the same outcome.
    Not……….once……
    In fact, there have been documented cases of similar buildings, fires etc…and ..no collapse. Not….once.

    Makes this case rather unique.
    Could make people a bit curious, even suspicious.

    As for US Government telling the truth to the public.. let alone that one, actually any Government, let’s just stop there.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Think about it - as few of UR's conspiracy mongers do - what happens before and when a "government" aims to give the public a version of things which may or may not be true or even contain deliberate lies. People high up who know little of the detail appoint or instruct or request others to find out things for them and report. Maybe there is someone who can with huge energy but no guarantee of success act through, say, the Director of Research or Chief Counsel to e.g. make sure someone isn't mentioned in a report or someone is focused on. Maybe though documents (and that can cover just about everything from field reports to scientific evidence) just go missing by misfiling or failure to recognise their significance. Do you think we would not have heard if there had been riding instructions to any of the major inquiring commissions that people (outsiders) suspect? Think of how most self respecting people would bristle at the idea thay tbey were being told to lie whether by President or, for Crissake, the V-P! Then you've got hired researchers and expert witnesses and consultants down the line who talk to each other.

    The most you are going to get is agreement on respectable aims like "we must be careful not to disclose anything which will imperil national security - but pf course without covering up major malfeasance"; "we don't need to dot every i and cross every t if it would unduly delay the report, as long as it doesn't fundamentally distort the truth or undermine public faith in our report".

    There are obviously cases where the government has already committed itself and its credit to a version of the truth which is not a lie but is not adequately backed with evidence and may be substantially untrue. That is where things are likely to get murky but the idea that getting people you appoint to follow through reliably for you is even likely is contrary to human fallibility.
    , @ANON
    "similar buildings"???? That is not a professional engineer writing with knowledge of the legal regulations applicable, the compliance with them or non-compliance, and the actual designs and construction methods, is it?

    So why make such confident assertions on at best third hand amateur hearsay?
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  93. Anon[389] • Disclaimer says:

    As a Lebanese, my only comment is that the writer of the article has described the feeling and general mood in Lebanon very accurate. It is obvious that he was actually in Lebanon meeting real people of the country. I am not saying that everybody thinks same,everyone has its own opinion,but general mood,yes,very good. Of course, nobody wants war,but if Israel attacks again, what choice do we have but to fight back. And,thank God,there are guys that know how to do it. And yes,although everything about Resistance in the west is pretty much controversial,especially if you start to tell good stories about it,but their everyday behaviour,as well everything they do, deserves only respect

    Read More
    • Replies: @Greasy William

    As a Lebanese, my only comment is that the writer of the article has described the feeling and general mood in Lebanon very accurate.
     
    And as a Jew, I just want to say: we're coming for you.

    You say the mood in the country is good. Let's see how good it is after the next war when we have destroyed every power and water plant in your country and ethnically cleansed the southern portion of it. And you won't have the Saudis to pay for reconstruction this time.

    Get used to living like a Gazan.
    , @A C
    Well, this Lebanese definitely disagrees with you. Hizbullah is garbage, they are murderers and thugs. Nothing they do is for the good of Lebanon. It is all for the good of their masters in Iran.
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  94. Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS

    … mainly because the Soviets repeatedly vetoed the proposal.....
     
    Makes sense.
    At the same time we had Reagan and “Evil Empire” with the rest of it, so I don’t think Soviet veto was that important.

    That from the book, yes......

    Either way you cut it feels simply....excessive.

    Why so excessive is the question.
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  95. peterAUS says:
    @Johnny Rico
    https://kilodocuments.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/20180406_hess3.jpg

    https://kilodocuments.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/20180406_hess1.jpg

    https://kilodocuments.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/20180406_hess2.jpg

    … mainly because the Soviets repeatedly vetoed the proposal…..

    Makes sense.
    At the same time we had Reagan and “Evil Empire” with the rest of it, so I don’t think Soviet veto was that important.

    That from the book, yes……

    Either way you cut it feels simply….excessive.

    Why so excessive is the question.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Johnny Rico
    I don't know. I mean, you see how seriously everybody here still fights over WWII history - almost none of whom were even alive at the time, nevermind being involved or even there.

    There are present narratives that people are wedded to that require the maintenance or destruction of past myths and narratives.

    And there were other and related powerful narratives in 1987 when Hess finally offed himself at the age of 93.

    There is something about the Nazis and Stalin that apparently never gets old...but it's still early, who knows.

    You are right, though. When I read that about the prison being kept open almost 20 years for Hess alone I was mildly disturbed. Excessive.
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  96. @Anon
    As a Lebanese, my only comment is that the writer of the article has described the feeling and general mood in Lebanon very accurate. It is obvious that he was actually in Lebanon meeting real people of the country. I am not saying that everybody thinks same,everyone has its own opinion,but general mood,yes,very good. Of course, nobody wants war,but if Israel attacks again, what choice do we have but to fight back. And,thank God,there are guys that know how to do it. And yes,although everything about Resistance in the west is pretty much controversial,especially if you start to tell good stories about it,but their everyday behaviour,as well everything they do, deserves only respect

    As a Lebanese, my only comment is that the writer of the article has described the feeling and general mood in Lebanon very accurate.

    And as a Jew, I just want to say: we’re coming for you.

    You say the mood in the country is good. Let’s see how good it is after the next war when we have destroyed every power and water plant in your country and ethnically cleansed the southern portion of it. And you won’t have the Saudis to pay for reconstruction this time.

    Get used to living like a Gazan.

    Read More
    • LOL: L.K
    • Replies: @L.K
    "As a deluded Zionist psychopath" and coward, since you obviously do not even live in "Israel", would have been more accurate than " as a Jew ".

    One wonders if you are really deranged enough to believe in the ridiculous propaganda you spout...

    The zionist military, iof, was defeated and kicked out of Lebanon in a long protracted war.

    Went back at it in 06, facing a much stronger Hezbollah, lost the war in a month.
    Not even with a Hezbollah expeditionary force preoccupied with Syria since 2013 - less so now - did the cowardly iof dare attack Lebanon again.
    Hezbollah is much larger and stronger now than in 2006.
    Former MI6 spook and EU diplomat, Alastair Crooke, who wrote about the 2006 war, had some things to say re the possibility of Israel attacking Lebanon again... at 9:19, he says:
    "Israel depends entirely on air superiority... the israeli army after defeat in 2006 war made the decision that they could not put boots on the ground in Lebanon for more than 6 days.."
    Syria’s shifting sands: RT's Peter Lavelle interviews Alastair Crooke
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuTlEHiYLAU
    , @Brett Redmayne-Titley
    The main question your comment begs is... why? Lebanon has never unilaterally attacked Israel, so why would you want Israel to attack Lebanon-AGAIN?

    Sadly, or perhaps thankfully, your comment shows the militaristic mindset that allowed Israel to slaughter 18 unarmed Palestinians last Friday and seven more today. Your comment, in supporting this type of atrocity strongly illustrates why the world is also rising up against Israel and the BDS movement getting stronger with each new atrocity.

    Even more interesting is that you would have you comment speak for all Jews, but this is as phoney a ascertion since multiple surveys of worldwide Jewry show that the majority does NOT support the Israeli foreign policy. The policy you are supporting in your comment is that of ZIONISM. Unfortunately, you apparently don't know the difference.

    Fortunately, the world, that includes world jewry, does know the difference. It also understands humanity and the lack thereof...........
    , @MEexpert

    Let’s see how good it is after the next war when we have destroyed every power and water plant in your country and ethnically cleansed the southern portion of it.
     
    Then why haven't you? The brave little country didn't even have the courage to attack Lebanon while Hizbullah was busy wiping out ISIS in Iraq and Syria. Furthermore, Israel is only good for destroying infrastructure. The Israelis can't face the real army.
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  97. Randal says:

    And as a Jew, I just want to say: we’re coming for you.

    And an Israeli would probably say: who’s this “we” you talk about, yankee?

    Read More
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  98. @peterAUS

    … mainly because the Soviets repeatedly vetoed the proposal.....
     
    Makes sense.
    At the same time we had Reagan and “Evil Empire” with the rest of it, so I don’t think Soviet veto was that important.

    That from the book, yes......

    Either way you cut it feels simply....excessive.

    Why so excessive is the question.

    I don’t know. I mean, you see how seriously everybody here still fights over WWII history – almost none of whom were even alive at the time, nevermind being involved or even there.

    There are present narratives that people are wedded to that require the maintenance or destruction of past myths and narratives.

    And there were other and related powerful narratives in 1987 when Hess finally offed himself at the age of 93.

    There is something about the Nazis and Stalin that apparently never gets old…but it’s still early, who knows.

    You are right, though. When I read that about the prison being kept open almost 20 years for Hess alone I was mildly disturbed. Excessive.

    Read More
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  99. anon[295] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mike-SMO
    A few points jump out of this "conversation" to a non-Israel, non-neo-con, non-Russian observer:

    1) The interview mentions prisoner exchange with Israel suggesting that there was an active program being conducted against Israel and that some of the agents/players/etc had been captured. Israel was then, in some sense, under attack and not exactly a simple aggressor, and the attacks into Lebanon might well have been "provoked".

    2) The pipeline (or some means of passage) seems reasonable since it seems clear that the Sunni Arab "core" was being "encircled" by Shia/Iranian activity from Yemen around to the Med. Why would a pipeline/railroad/air corridor have been so unreasonable to consider? Maybe nothing concrete was accomplished but such a "safe" transport route would seem to make sense to the Sunni Arabs in the face of potential envelopement by "unfriendly" interests.

    3) The cooperation between the Shia forces and others makes tactical sense especially in comparison to the intolerance typically reported for Sunni actors. It was, indeed, useful against ISIS/ISIL and their associates, and maybe an extention of the Alawi "tolerance" in Syria, but the heavy dominance of the Shia/Hizbullah faction does not suggest much of an effective future for other players, especially if future actions against Israel are part of the "plan".

    4) Israel is mentioned as a cause for the "troubles" but the conclict seems to actually be centered on Sunni/Shia and Turkish/Kurdish/Arab stresses, not to mention the Muslim Brotherhood/Hamas/Palestinian activities. Israel almost seems to be more of an "excuse" or post-facto justification for some other, long-running disputes.

    Can’t address all the sopohtry presented as reasons here as analytical exercises but this quote will take care of no-4 and the rest will topple over each other

    “The invasion of Iraq had been promoted in part as a way to bring democracy to the region and help Israel. Now she argued that because the turmoil in Iraq had led to the rise of Iran, the collective fear of the Sunni world would make Arabs more willing to strike a deal with Israel….

    The Confidante: Condoleezza Rice and the Creation of the Bush Legacy

    Glenn Kessler (Author)

    Now to help you a bit further , go back to 1900 when the powers were courted by Zionist for a country in Palestine in exchange of protecting existing interests or creating new opportunities .

    USA has allowed itself to be stretched logically conceptually and ideologically from one spot to the next from 1965 by Israel openly and collaboratelly . Many examples . One is this simple – America is going to liberate Kuwait ( not liberating Palestine or Golan ) and from there more demands and conditions followed until US ran out of conditions and demands ( unless suicidal capituutaltion of Saddam was included ).
    The ideological talking points underlying these demands have come from AIPAC and like minded incestous bodies.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    " and would make Arabs more willing to strike a deal"

    Wow!!!!!!!!!

    The events both before and after that 911 type only billion times worse attack on Iraq prove Israel never was interested in deals . It wants what it wants at any given point of time and space. Both are ready for next metamorphosis after one set of demand is met for next set of demand .

    Waiting for the day when the Zionist would say :" well they still don't recognize the Torah ( Chuck Shuer recently told exactly that - that there is no peace because Palestinian don't believe inTorah) , the Goym don't recognize us as the Chosen one " as the reasons for extending ongoing fights around the neighbpirhoods using US power and for stifling the last breath way from the Gazan and West Bank inhabitants .
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  100. L.K says:

    Christian Singer Honors Hezbollah in Stunning 2013 Concert, Lebanon

    Read More
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  101. A C says:
    @Anon
    As a Lebanese, my only comment is that the writer of the article has described the feeling and general mood in Lebanon very accurate. It is obvious that he was actually in Lebanon meeting real people of the country. I am not saying that everybody thinks same,everyone has its own opinion,but general mood,yes,very good. Of course, nobody wants war,but if Israel attacks again, what choice do we have but to fight back. And,thank God,there are guys that know how to do it. And yes,although everything about Resistance in the west is pretty much controversial,especially if you start to tell good stories about it,but their everyday behaviour,as well everything they do, deserves only respect

    Well, this Lebanese definitely disagrees with you. Hizbullah is garbage, they are murderers and thugs. Nothing they do is for the good of Lebanon. It is all for the good of their masters in Iran.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    A phone call Wednesday between Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and US President Donald Trump grew tense over Israeli objections to US plans to leave Syria, US administration officials said Wednesday, adding that Trump wants to pull out all troops within six months to the dismay of the country’s main security agencies and allies.

    It said that “President Trump reiterated the commitment of the United States to Israel’s security,” and added that “the two leaders agreed to continue their close coordination on countering Iran’s malign influence and destabilizing activities.”

    But two US officials told The Associated Press on Wednesday the talks grew tense because of Israeli concerns that the United States will withdraw from Syria in the near future and allow its enemies  — primarily Iran — to gain a further foothold in a neighboring country through its various ---https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-officials-trump-netanyahu-call-grew-tense-over-plans-to-leave-syria/



    Sure , you will find a Syrian who will agree with Netanhowyuooooooooo
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  102. A C says:
    @Twodees Partain
    The way it works is that you have to know a thing or two that didn't come from a TV talking head's mouth before you can form an opinion. As it stands, you don't have an opinion.

    Thanks for assuming I am too stupid to form an opinion outside of what a talking head tells me. I am lebanese. I have lived in Lebanon, I have seen up close and personal what Hizbullah does and what they are capable of.

    Have you?

    Read More
    • Replies: @L.K
    It is indeed possible that you could be a Lebanese...

    There are plenty of traitors on the Saudi payroll and Israeli collaborators in Lebanon. You are butt hurt cause your machinations with the enemies of Lebanon have all failed.

    But you are mistaken; you are the ones who are garbage, pure scum. No man of conscience from anywhere in the world respects your kind.

    Hezbollah are too nice to let you breathe, you should be thankful.
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  103. A C says:
    @Art
    This is the biggest load of trash article I have EVER read on the Middle East and considering both right and left wing garbage that is out there, that is saying something.

    A C,

    Oh my -- This is the biggest hasbara troll comment I have EVER read on the Middle East.

    Nasrallah is good man who looks out for his people.

    Shame on the Jews for not supporting him.

    The world knows that Netanyahu and the Israelis are the true terrorists and assassins.

    Think Peace --- Do No Harm --- Art

    I am Lebanese. I have seen what these people do up close and personal. I am not Jewish nor have I ever seen the inside of Israel or Palestine. I don’t care to see them as I have no fondness at all for the area.

    What I do care about is the sanitizing of a militia that commits murder every time their leash is pulled by their masters. I care about the fact that this writer has written the most bias piece of garbage on this topic I have ever read.

    Do you speak Arabic fluently? I do. I see all of Nasrallah’s speeches. all of them. in his native language. Believe me, this sanitizing is not a good thing.

    Read More
    • Replies: @poop
    Ohhhhh, I see... you're "Lebanese." And therefore, you speak for all "Lebanese." Your English is really good, almost like you're not "Lebanese" at all. But no one lies on the internet.

    I think A C stands for Ameri Can. Clever.
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  104. L.K says:
    @Greasy William

    As a Lebanese, my only comment is that the writer of the article has described the feeling and general mood in Lebanon very accurate.
     
    And as a Jew, I just want to say: we're coming for you.

    You say the mood in the country is good. Let's see how good it is after the next war when we have destroyed every power and water plant in your country and ethnically cleansed the southern portion of it. And you won't have the Saudis to pay for reconstruction this time.

    Get used to living like a Gazan.

    “As a deluded Zionist psychopath” and coward, since you obviously do not even live in “Israel”, would have been more accurate than ” as a Jew “.

    One wonders if you are really deranged enough to believe in the ridiculous propaganda you spout…

    The zionist military, iof, was defeated and kicked out of Lebanon in a long protracted war.

    Went back at it in 06, facing a much stronger Hezbollah, lost the war in a month.
    Not even with a Hezbollah expeditionary force preoccupied with Syria since 2013 – less so now – did the cowardly iof dare attack Lebanon again.
    Hezbollah is much larger and stronger now than in 2006.
    Former MI6 spook and EU diplomat, Alastair Crooke, who wrote about the 2006 war, had some things to say re the possibility of Israel attacking Lebanon again… at 9:19, he says:
    “Israel depends entirely on air superiority… the israeli army after defeat in 2006 war made the decision that they could not put boots on the ground in Lebanon for more than 6 days..”
    Syria’s shifting sands: RT’s Peter Lavelle interviews Alastair Crooke

    Read More
    • Replies: @Greasy William

    Hezbollah is much larger and stronger now than in 2006.
     
    Do you like boxing? Do you remember a fighter from the 80's named Marvin Hagler?

    In 1981, Hagler defended his middleweight title against Syrian contender Mustafa Hamsho. Hamsho was a big strong middleweight, possibly the physically strongest middleweight ever. He was tough and he was determined to win, but Hagler proved to be just too skilled and Hagler brutally won the fight by TKO in round 11.

    3 years later Hagler was clearly starting to slide, but Hamsho had noticeably improved. He was showing head movement in his fights and not taking nearly as much punishment. He was a better fighter and in the 3 years since his loss to Hagler, he had won big fights that earned him another shot at the title.

    The result? Hamsho got knocked out in the 3rd round. So even though he was better and Hagler was worse, Hagler scored an even bigger victory. This is because combat does not take place on paper, it involves tons of different variables and the end result can often be counter intuitive.

    Do you see where I'm going with this?

    Is Hezbollah stronger today than in 2006? Damn right they are. Is it going to save them in the next war? I doubt it.
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  105. @Greasy William

    As a Lebanese, my only comment is that the writer of the article has described the feeling and general mood in Lebanon very accurate.
     
    And as a Jew, I just want to say: we're coming for you.

    You say the mood in the country is good. Let's see how good it is after the next war when we have destroyed every power and water plant in your country and ethnically cleansed the southern portion of it. And you won't have the Saudis to pay for reconstruction this time.

    Get used to living like a Gazan.

    The main question your comment begs is… why? Lebanon has never unilaterally attacked Israel, so why would you want Israel to attack Lebanon-AGAIN?

    Sadly, or perhaps thankfully, your comment shows the militaristic mindset that allowed Israel to slaughter 18 unarmed Palestinians last Friday and seven more today. Your comment, in supporting this type of atrocity strongly illustrates why the world is also rising up against Israel and the BDS movement getting stronger with each new atrocity.

    Even more interesting is that you would have you comment speak for all Jews, but this is as phoney a ascertion since multiple surveys of worldwide Jewry show that the majority does NOT support the Israeli foreign policy. The policy you are supporting in your comment is that of ZIONISM. Unfortunately, you apparently don’t know the difference.

    Fortunately, the world, that includes world jewry, does know the difference. It also understands humanity and the lack thereof………..

    Read More
    • Replies: @Greasy William

    The main question your comment begs is… why? Lebanon has never unilaterally attacked Israel
     
    WHAAAAT????!?!?!?!!?!

    I mean, holy shit.

    ...

    L.K: If you have different things to say, either use multiple posts or do something like this:

    ...

    To separate your ideas. Stop putting separate trains of thought in the same body of text. It is really annoying and makes it impossible for me to understand what you are trying to say.

    ...

    “As a deluded Zionist psychopath” and coward, since you obviously do not even live in “Israel”, would have been more accurate than ” as a Jew “.
     
    From you're point of view, they are one in the same. In Israel nobody would consider me a "Zionist". Only on Unz am I a Zionist. Learn something about Israel before you talk about it.

    One wonders if you are really deranged enough to believe in the ridiculous propaganda you spout…
     
    You know what is so sad about this? I don't even dislike you. Over the years I've developed a kind of grudging admiration for you (which isn't to say that I like you, I don't).

    But I'm the one who's deluded? I'm the one spouting propaganda? Do you even listen to yourself?

    If you want to talk about the next war, I'm here. But you got to give me more then just "Hezbollah will crush the Zionist Occupation Army!". I need something more specific to respond to.

    “Israel depends entirely on air superiority… the israeli army after defeat in 2006 war made the decision that they could not put boots on the ground in Lebanon for more than 6 days..”
     
    I see what he is trying to say but he overstates his case.

    Israel is not a Western country, but it is a Western military. Western military thinking since at least the end of WW2 has put an absolute premium on complete dominance of the air. Russia, China, Turkey, Iran and the Arab armies, however, consider the ground forces the most important arm and the air force as being in service to to the ground forces. In short: Western armies want to win the air whereas non Western armies want to defend it. Different philosophies.

    The Israeli ground forces fought phenomenally well after the first several days in 1973 despite not having air superiority and they also fought terribly in 2006 when they had absolute air supremacy. So no, the IDF does not depend on air superiority, it just highly values it as their most effective force multiplier.

    But why are you even bringing this up? What does air superiority have to do with the next war? Is Hezbollah about to start building their own F-16's to fight for Lebanese air space? Hezbollah doesn't give a crap about controlling the skies. The IDF can have them as far as Hezbollah is concerned.
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  106. anon[295] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon
    Can't address all the sopohtry presented as reasons here as analytical exercises but this quote will take care of no-4 and the rest will topple over each other



    "The invasion of Iraq had been promoted in part as a way to bring democracy to the region and help Israel. Now she argued that because the turmoil in Iraq had led to the rise of Iran, the collective fear of the Sunni world would make Arabs more willing to strike a deal with Israel….

    The Confidante: Condoleezza Rice and the Creation of the Bush Legacy

    Glenn Kessler (Author)

    Now to help you a bit further , go back to 1900 when the powers were courted by Zionist for a country in Palestine in exchange of protecting existing interests or creating new opportunities .

    USA has allowed itself to be stretched logically conceptually and ideologically from one spot to the next from 1965 by Israel openly and collaboratelly . Many examples . One is this simple - America is going to liberate Kuwait ( not liberating Palestine or Golan ) and from there more demands and conditions followed until US ran out of conditions and demands ( unless suicidal capituutaltion of Saddam was included ).
    The ideological talking points underlying these demands have come from AIPAC and like minded incestous bodies.

    ” and would make Arabs more willing to strike a deal”

    Wow!!!!!!!!!

    The events both before and after that 911 type only billion times worse attack on Iraq prove Israel never was interested in deals . It wants what it wants at any given point of time and space. Both are ready for next metamorphosis after one set of demand is met for next set of demand .

    Waiting for the day when the Zionist would say :” well they still don’t recognize the Torah ( Chuck Shuer recently told exactly that – that there is no peace because Palestinian don’t believe inTorah) , the Goym don’t recognize us as the Chosen one ” as the reasons for extending ongoing fights around the neighbpirhoods using US power and for stifling the last breath way from the Gazan and West Bank inhabitants .

    Read More
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  107. L.K says:

    In the study “Back to Basics”, US Lieutenant Colonel Scott C. Farquhar, wrote:

    American professional military personnel are well-acquainted with “the arrogant show of strength” that was Task Force Smith in Korea in the summer of 1950 and of its fate. A similar result occurred when the vaunted IDF attacked into Lebanon in 2006 against the guerrilla army of Hezbollah: a firstworld army was fought to a standstill by a tough and determined enemy despite overwhelming air power. The IDF pitted ill-trained soldiers and ill-educated officers, who attempted to carry out vague orders and unfamiliar tasks, against a small group of men with good weapons and a simple mission.

    He examines the IOF supposed improvements after the 2006 defeat and its better performance against the Palestinians trapped in Gaza during operation Cast Lead, in late December 2008-January 2009, but cautions that Hamas was much weaker than Hezbollah:

    Hezbollah presented the Israelis with a well trained, well led and suitably equipped force with sufficient space to defend in depth. Hamas was inadequately trained and poorly led with little space to trade for producing Israeli casualties…. Conversely, as in the case of Hamas, an underequipped, ill trained and poorly commanded opponent can be an annoyance—but it will not stand long against significant national power. Hamas presented the Israelis with a poor imitation of Hezbollah

    Read More
    • Replies: @MEexpert
    The difference between the mighty Israeli army and the little Hizbullah army is that of leadership. The fat cat generals of Israeli army can hardly move with all those heavy medals, won during all the wars against unarmed Palestinians, pinned on their chests while, the Hizbullah army is led by a black turbaned and black-robed simple soldier with only the medal of his faith pinned in his heart.
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  108. L.K says:
    @A C
    Thanks for assuming I am too stupid to form an opinion outside of what a talking head tells me. I am lebanese. I have lived in Lebanon, I have seen up close and personal what Hizbullah does and what they are capable of.

    Have you?

    It is indeed possible that you could be a Lebanese…

    There are plenty of traitors on the Saudi payroll and Israeli collaborators in Lebanon. You are butt hurt cause your machinations with the enemies of Lebanon have all failed.

    But you are mistaken; you are the ones who are garbage, pure scum. No man of conscience from anywhere in the world respects your kind.

    Hezbollah are too nice to let you breathe, you should be thankful.

    Read More
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  109. anon[295] • Disclaimer says:
    @A C
    Well, this Lebanese definitely disagrees with you. Hizbullah is garbage, they are murderers and thugs. Nothing they do is for the good of Lebanon. It is all for the good of their masters in Iran.

    A phone call Wednesday between Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and US President Donald Trump grew tense over Israeli objections to US plans to leave Syria, US administration officials said Wednesday, adding that Trump wants to pull out all troops within six months to the dismay of the country’s main security agencies and allies.

    It said that “President Trump reiterated the commitment of the United States to Israel’s security,” and added that “the two leaders agreed to continue their close coordination on countering Iran’s malign influence and destabilizing activities.”

    But two US officials told The Associated Press on Wednesday the talks grew tense because of Israeli concerns that the United States will withdraw from Syria in the near future and allow its enemies  — primarily Iran — to gain a further foothold in a neighboring country through its various —https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-officials-trump-netanyahu-call-grew-tense-over-plans-to-leave-syria/

    Sure , you will find a Syrian who will agree with Netanhowyuooooooooo

    Read More
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  110. L.K says:

    US Lieutenant Colonel Scott C. Farquhar, cautiously suggested that the IOF had improved after its defeat in 06 at the hands of Hezbollah, but the yardstick used to measure it was a poorly trained, equipped and led Hamas, in 2009.
    Concerning the IOF last major attack on Gaza in 2014, against an improved version of Hamas, how did the iof do? Former Zionist terrorist & IOF veteran, Uri Avnery, wrote:
    AFTER 29 DAYS of fighting (until now), who has won?

    It is, of course, much too early to draw final conclusions. The ceasefire has blown up. It will take months and years to sum up all the consequences. But Israeli popular wisdom has already drawn its own conclusions: it is a draw.[...]
    WHEN A guerrilla organization with at most 10,000 fighters achieves a draw with one of the mightiest armies in the world, equipped with the most ultra-modern weapons, that is by itself a kind of victory.
    Hamas has not only shown a lot of courage during the fighting, but also surprising ingenuity in preparing for this campaign. It is still standing upright.

    The Israeli army, on the other hand, has shown very little imagination. It was quite unprepared for the maze of tunnels.
    … Indeed, as a commentator dared to write, the army has become a heavy, cumbersome, conservative machine. It followed its established routine…Its doctrine was, in essence, to pound the civilian population into submission, causing as much killing and destruction as possible, so as to deter the “resistance” as much and as long as possible. In Israel, the terrible pictures of death and destruction did not evoke compassion. On the contrary. People were proud of it
    .

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  111. L.K says:

    Former Zionist terrorist & IOF veteran, Uri Avnery, wrote in despair:

    IT IS no longer anything new to point out that the occupation is destroying the Israeli army.

    An army cannot fulfill its mission to defend the state against potential enemies when it has been engaged for decades as a colonial police force. One can give attractive names to a death-squad – Team Mango or Unit Peach – but it remains what it is: an instrument of brutal killing and oppression.

    An officer who today plans the Mafia-style killing of a “senior militant” by an undercover action in the Kasbah of Nablus, will not be able tomorrow to lead a tank battalion against a sophisticated enemy. An army that shoots stone-throwers, chases children in the alleys of Balata refugee camp or drops a one-ton bomb on a residential building cannot turn overnight into an efficient force on a modern battlefield in a war of last resort.

    Read More
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  112. @Brett Redmayne-Titley
    The main question your comment begs is... why? Lebanon has never unilaterally attacked Israel, so why would you want Israel to attack Lebanon-AGAIN?

    Sadly, or perhaps thankfully, your comment shows the militaristic mindset that allowed Israel to slaughter 18 unarmed Palestinians last Friday and seven more today. Your comment, in supporting this type of atrocity strongly illustrates why the world is also rising up against Israel and the BDS movement getting stronger with each new atrocity.

    Even more interesting is that you would have you comment speak for all Jews, but this is as phoney a ascertion since multiple surveys of worldwide Jewry show that the majority does NOT support the Israeli foreign policy. The policy you are supporting in your comment is that of ZIONISM. Unfortunately, you apparently don't know the difference.

    Fortunately, the world, that includes world jewry, does know the difference. It also understands humanity and the lack thereof...........

    The main question your comment begs is… why? Lebanon has never unilaterally attacked Israel

    WHAAAAT????!?!?!?!!?!

    I mean, holy shit.

    L.K: If you have different things to say, either use multiple posts or do something like this:

    To separate your ideas. Stop putting separate trains of thought in the same body of text. It is really annoying and makes it impossible for me to understand what you are trying to say.

    “As a deluded Zionist psychopath” and coward, since you obviously do not even live in “Israel”, would have been more accurate than ” as a Jew “.

    From you’re point of view, they are one in the same. In Israel nobody would consider me a “Zionist”. Only on Unz am I a Zionist. Learn something about Israel before you talk about it.

    One wonders if you are really deranged enough to believe in the ridiculous propaganda you spout…

    You know what is so sad about this? I don’t even dislike you. Over the years I’ve developed a kind of grudging admiration for you (which isn’t to say that I like you, I don’t).

    But I’m the one who’s deluded? I’m the one spouting propaganda? Do you even listen to yourself?

    If you want to talk about the next war, I’m here. But you got to give me more then just “Hezbollah will crush the Zionist Occupation Army!”. I need something more specific to respond to.

    “Israel depends entirely on air superiority… the israeli army after defeat in 2006 war made the decision that they could not put boots on the ground in Lebanon for more than 6 days..”

    I see what he is trying to say but he overstates his case.

    Israel is not a Western country, but it is a Western military. Western military thinking since at least the end of WW2 has put an absolute premium on complete dominance of the air. Russia, China, Turkey, Iran and the Arab armies, however, consider the ground forces the most important arm and the air force as being in service to to the ground forces. In short: Western armies want to win the air whereas non Western armies want to defend it. Different philosophies.

    The Israeli ground forces fought phenomenally well after the first several days in 1973 despite not having air superiority and they also fought terribly in 2006 when they had absolute air supremacy. So no, the IDF does not depend on air superiority, it just highly values it as their most effective force multiplier.

    But why are you even bringing this up? What does air superiority have to do with the next war? Is Hezbollah about to start building their own F-16′s to fight for Lebanese air space? Hezbollah doesn’t give a crap about controlling the skies. The IDF can have them as far as Hezbollah is concerned.

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  113. L.K says:

    To illustrate with visuals what Avnery is saying…
    An army that regularly engages in this type of stuff( and much worse);

    Does not do well when facing these dudes;

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  114. @L.K
    "As a deluded Zionist psychopath" and coward, since you obviously do not even live in "Israel", would have been more accurate than " as a Jew ".

    One wonders if you are really deranged enough to believe in the ridiculous propaganda you spout...

    The zionist military, iof, was defeated and kicked out of Lebanon in a long protracted war.

    Went back at it in 06, facing a much stronger Hezbollah, lost the war in a month.
    Not even with a Hezbollah expeditionary force preoccupied with Syria since 2013 - less so now - did the cowardly iof dare attack Lebanon again.
    Hezbollah is much larger and stronger now than in 2006.
    Former MI6 spook and EU diplomat, Alastair Crooke, who wrote about the 2006 war, had some things to say re the possibility of Israel attacking Lebanon again... at 9:19, he says:
    "Israel depends entirely on air superiority... the israeli army after defeat in 2006 war made the decision that they could not put boots on the ground in Lebanon for more than 6 days.."
    Syria’s shifting sands: RT's Peter Lavelle interviews Alastair Crooke
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuTlEHiYLAU

    Hezbollah is much larger and stronger now than in 2006.

    Do you like boxing? Do you remember a fighter from the 80′s named Marvin Hagler?

    In 1981, Hagler defended his middleweight title against Syrian contender Mustafa Hamsho. Hamsho was a big strong middleweight, possibly the physically strongest middleweight ever. He was tough and he was determined to win, but Hagler proved to be just too skilled and Hagler brutally won the fight by TKO in round 11.

    3 years later Hagler was clearly starting to slide, but Hamsho had noticeably improved. He was showing head movement in his fights and not taking nearly as much punishment. He was a better fighter and in the 3 years since his loss to Hagler, he had won big fights that earned him another shot at the title.

    The result? Hamsho got knocked out in the 3rd round. So even though he was better and Hagler was worse, Hagler scored an even bigger victory. This is because combat does not take place on paper, it involves tons of different variables and the end result can often be counter intuitive.

    Do you see where I’m going with this?

    Is Hezbollah stronger today than in 2006? Damn right they are. Is it going to save them in the next war? I doubt it.

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    • Replies: @MEexpert

    This is because combat does not take place on paper, it involves tons of different variables and the end result can often be counter intuitive.
     
    So you think for the past 12 years Hizbullah has been sitting home drawing combat pictures? Or, do you think the War in Syria wasn't a real war? Everyone agrees that Hizbullah is now a battle hardened, combat experienced war machine. That is why in spite of all the rhetoric, Israel has not dared to make any move against Hizbullah.
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  115. @peterAUS

    The WTC 7 collapse took all day. No surprise if you just asdume that the collapses were a product of mass above the heat weakened steel and the weakening of the steel.
     
    Can't say it's implausible.

    Still, my point remains: not ONCE in a rich history of urban warfare and destruction we've seen the same outcome.
    Not..........once......
    In fact, there have been documented cases of similar buildings, fires etc...and ..no collapse. Not....once.

    Makes this case rather unique.
    Could make people a bit curious, even suspicious.

    As for US Government telling the truth to the public.. let alone that one, actually any Government, let's just stop there.

    Think about it – as few of UR’s conspiracy mongers do – what happens before and when a “government” aims to give the public a version of things which may or may not be true or even contain deliberate lies. People high up who know little of the detail appoint or instruct or request others to find out things for them and report. Maybe there is someone who can with huge energy but no guarantee of success act through, say, the Director of Research or Chief Counsel to e.g. make sure someone isn’t mentioned in a report or someone is focused on. Maybe though documents (and that can cover just about everything from field reports to scientific evidence) just go missing by misfiling or failure to recognise their significance. Do you think we would not have heard if there had been riding instructions to any of the major inquiring commissions that people (outsiders) suspect? Think of how most self respecting people would bristle at the idea thay tbey were being told to lie whether by President or, for Crissake, the V-P! Then you’ve got hired researchers and expert witnesses and consultants down the line who talk to each other.

    The most you are going to get is agreement on respectable aims like “we must be careful not to disclose anything which will imperil national security – but pf course without covering up major malfeasance”; “we don’t need to dot every i and cross every t if it would unduly delay the report, as long as it doesn’t fundamentally distort the truth or undermine public faith in our report”.

    There are obviously cases where the government has already committed itself and its credit to a version of the truth which is not a lie but is not adequately backed with evidence and may be substantially untrue. That is where things are likely to get murky but the idea that getting people you appoint to follow through reliably for you is even likely is contrary to human fallibility.

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    • Replies: @peterAUS
    Can't argue that.
    Could you argue that the public was deliberately lied to re Iraqi WMDs?

    That, sometimes, "the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy".

    Now, in this particular example, "WTC 7", things are, IMHO, not as clear cut as we are led to believe by MSM.

    So, true, I can be called anything anyone here wants. Fine with me. In fact, if my opinion wasn't pissing at least somebody around I'd feel something was missing.

    So...in this case something isn't quite right.

    As I said....I can not find ONE example of similar case.

    And,well, maybe I don't know much about making buildings. But, I am absolutely positive that I do know more about destroying them than 90 % of posters here. Probably even 95. Anyone here completed just a basic demolition course, for example? Let alone knowing something about effects of weaponry on modern buildings etc. I mean, that's the part of another course I spout I completed, MOUT/FIBUA related. Or, "how to bring that building down".

    So, to keep this funny, I'd really like to know that combination of ...things...that brought that building down.
    Say, the mission is to destroy a strongpoint to advance further into the city. The strongpoint is a building as WTC7 manned by a company of enemy. Too costly to assault, let's reduce it. HOW?
    Well, the usual is: from decent bombing from air, through very decent direct artillery fire (at least 150 mm), to sending a combat assault engineers in. Not bad if you weren't one of them.
    Option "WTC7": suppress the building and send a helicopter gunship with a...canister....with those ingredients that brought down the "original". Drop and watch.
    That's for the First World military.

    For some...ahm...other "militaries" of this world that knowledge would be invaluable re race/religion/ethnicity warfare. Say, destroy the town...... Using "WTC7" method is simple, cheap and fast.
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  116. ANON[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @peterAUS

    The WTC 7 collapse took all day. No surprise if you just asdume that the collapses were a product of mass above the heat weakened steel and the weakening of the steel.
     
    Can't say it's implausible.

    Still, my point remains: not ONCE in a rich history of urban warfare and destruction we've seen the same outcome.
    Not..........once......
    In fact, there have been documented cases of similar buildings, fires etc...and ..no collapse. Not....once.

    Makes this case rather unique.
    Could make people a bit curious, even suspicious.

    As for US Government telling the truth to the public.. let alone that one, actually any Government, let's just stop there.

    “similar buildings”???? That is not a professional engineer writing with knowledge of the legal regulations applicable, the compliance with them or non-compliance, and the actual designs and construction methods, is it?

    So why make such confident assertions on at best third hand amateur hearsay?

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    • Replies: @peterAUS
    We apparently have an expert here.
    WELCOME!

    Could you please provide an example of a similar building being brought down as WTC7?

    Here are parameters for you:
    The size as WTC7.
    Built by material similar to WTC7.
    Material inside similar to WTC7.
    Put on fire by similar method available. No structural damage incurred while being put on fire, though (we don't want 5 tons bomb as a fire making device).
    And..after a similar time passed collapsed onto itself.

    Just.........one. Ever.

    Waiting........sort of. Not really but you can always surprise us here. Say, 5 % chance for that.
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  117. anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @jilles dykstra
    El Quaida, a USA propaganda invention.
    Why do you think the USA murdered a man over sixty who had been living in Abottabad quietly for many years ?
    I suppose the same reason the presumed Hess was suicided in the Spandau prison in Berlin, at all costs it had to be prevented that they spoke.

    Are you losing self control in your old age? It is really dopey to diaregard Al Qaeda’s attacks on the Kenyan and Tanzanian embassies, the USS warship off Yemen etc. And of course you say Osama bin Laden could speak of things which would show…. what? Oh that he was indeed an enemy of America!

    How, pray, was he prevented from saying something important? Do you think he was just gearing up for a big TV documentary that for some reason had to be forestalled?

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  118. poop says:
    @A C
    I am Lebanese. I have seen what these people do up close and personal. I am not Jewish nor have I ever seen the inside of Israel or Palestine. I don't care to see them as I have no fondness at all for the area.

    What I do care about is the sanitizing of a militia that commits murder every time their leash is pulled by their masters. I care about the fact that this writer has written the most bias piece of garbage on this topic I have ever read.

    Do you speak Arabic fluently? I do. I see all of Nasrallah's speeches. all of them. in his native language. Believe me, this sanitizing is not a good thing.

    Ohhhhh, I see… you’re “Lebanese.” And therefore, you speak for all “Lebanese.” Your English is really good, almost like you’re not “Lebanese” at all. But no one lies on the internet.

    I think A C stands for Ameri Can. Clever.

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  119. peterAUS says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    Think about it - as few of UR's conspiracy mongers do - what happens before and when a "government" aims to give the public a version of things which may or may not be true or even contain deliberate lies. People high up who know little of the detail appoint or instruct or request others to find out things for them and report. Maybe there is someone who can with huge energy but no guarantee of success act through, say, the Director of Research or Chief Counsel to e.g. make sure someone isn't mentioned in a report or someone is focused on. Maybe though documents (and that can cover just about everything from field reports to scientific evidence) just go missing by misfiling or failure to recognise their significance. Do you think we would not have heard if there had been riding instructions to any of the major inquiring commissions that people (outsiders) suspect? Think of how most self respecting people would bristle at the idea thay tbey were being told to lie whether by President or, for Crissake, the V-P! Then you've got hired researchers and expert witnesses and consultants down the line who talk to each other.

    The most you are going to get is agreement on respectable aims like "we must be careful not to disclose anything which will imperil national security - but pf course without covering up major malfeasance"; "we don't need to dot every i and cross every t if it would unduly delay the report, as long as it doesn't fundamentally distort the truth or undermine public faith in our report".

    There are obviously cases where the government has already committed itself and its credit to a version of the truth which is not a lie but is not adequately backed with evidence and may be substantially untrue. That is where things are likely to get murky but the idea that getting people you appoint to follow through reliably for you is even likely is contrary to human fallibility.

    Can’t argue that.
    Could you argue that the public was deliberately lied to re Iraqi WMDs?

    That, sometimes, “the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy”.

    Now, in this particular example, “WTC 7″, things are, IMHO, not as clear cut as we are led to believe by MSM.

    So, true, I can be called anything anyone here wants. Fine with me. In fact, if my opinion wasn’t pissing at least somebody around I’d feel something was missing.

    So…in this case something isn’t quite right.

    As I said….I can not find ONE example of similar case.

    And,well, maybe I don’t know much about making buildings. But, I am absolutely positive that I do know more about destroying them than 90 % of posters here. Probably even 95. Anyone here completed just a basic demolition course, for example? Let alone knowing something about effects of weaponry on modern buildings etc. I mean, that’s the part of another course I spout I completed, MOUT/FIBUA related. Or, “how to bring that building down”.

    So, to keep this funny, I’d really like to know that combination of …things…that brought that building down.
    Say, the mission is to destroy a strongpoint to advance further into the city. The strongpoint is a building as WTC7 manned by a company of enemy. Too costly to assault, let’s reduce it. HOW?
    Well, the usual is: from decent bombing from air, through very decent direct artillery fire (at least 150 mm), to sending a combat assault engineers in. Not bad if you weren’t one of them.
    Option “WTC7″: suppress the building and send a helicopter gunship with a…canister….with those ingredients that brought down the “original”. Drop and watch.
    That’s for the First World military.

    For some…ahm…other “militaries” of this world that knowledge would be invaluable re race/religion/ethnicity warfare. Say, destroy the town…… Using “WTC7″ method is simple, cheap and fast.

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    • Replies: @DESERT FOX
    The WTC towers and other buildings ie WTC buildings 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 were destroyed by a particle beam weapon, see Dr. Judy Wood.com.

    The ones behind the attack on 911 were Israel and the Zionist controlled deep state.
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  120. peterAUS says:
    @ANON
    "similar buildings"???? That is not a professional engineer writing with knowledge of the legal regulations applicable, the compliance with them or non-compliance, and the actual designs and construction methods, is it?

    So why make such confident assertions on at best third hand amateur hearsay?

    We apparently have an expert here.
    WELCOME!

    Could you please provide an example of a similar building being brought down as WTC7?

    Here are parameters for you:
    The size as WTC7.
    Built by material similar to WTC7.
    Material inside similar to WTC7.
    Put on fire by similar method available. No structural damage incurred while being put on fire, though (we don’t want 5 tons bomb as a fire making device).
    And..after a similar time passed collapsed onto itself.

    Just………one. Ever.

    Waiting……..sort of. Not really but you can always surprise us here. Say, 5 % chance for that.

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    • Replies: @ANON
    Yep. WTC 1 and WTC 2. Study the 1960s changes in regs under whuch they were built.
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  121. ANON[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @peterAUS
    We apparently have an expert here.
    WELCOME!

    Could you please provide an example of a similar building being brought down as WTC7?

    Here are parameters for you:
    The size as WTC7.
    Built by material similar to WTC7.
    Material inside similar to WTC7.
    Put on fire by similar method available. No structural damage incurred while being put on fire, though (we don't want 5 tons bomb as a fire making device).
    And..after a similar time passed collapsed onto itself.

    Just.........one. Ever.

    Waiting........sort of. Not really but you can always surprise us here. Say, 5 % chance for that.

    Yep. WTC 1 and WTC 2. Study the 1960s changes in regs under whuch they were built.

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    • Replies: @peterAUS
    That's an interested point.

    Questions:
    Those three are the only buildings built by those standards? Anywhere? I presume not but you could supply the answer (how many, when and which) fast.
    If any of those remaining buildings get on fire, then, we can expect they'll also collapse, the same way?
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  122. MEexpert says:
    @Another German Reader
    Reading about all those Middle-Eastern/North-African/Sub-Saharan African Youth Bulge Wars (TM) is so tiresome.

    Unz.com should not become a propaganda-channel for any of those factions/groups.

    Let them slaughter each-other and then make deals with the winners.

    The West/Far East/America has got the capital/tech/consumer-goods, these war-winners have to cut a deal with us anyway.

    Just keep their Young Angry Men away. They are troublesome.

    Cheers

    Let them slaughter each-other and then make deals with the winners.

    It is the Americans and the Europeans, including Germans, that are doing the slaughtering. Keep your young killers at home and there will not be any problem in the Middle East. The West is expert in making deals with “winners.” At this rate there will not be any winner left for the West to make deals.

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  123. MEexpert says:
    @Greasy William

    Hezbollah is much larger and stronger now than in 2006.
     
    Do you like boxing? Do you remember a fighter from the 80's named Marvin Hagler?

    In 1981, Hagler defended his middleweight title against Syrian contender Mustafa Hamsho. Hamsho was a big strong middleweight, possibly the physically strongest middleweight ever. He was tough and he was determined to win, but Hagler proved to be just too skilled and Hagler brutally won the fight by TKO in round 11.

    3 years later Hagler was clearly starting to slide, but Hamsho had noticeably improved. He was showing head movement in his fights and not taking nearly as much punishment. He was a better fighter and in the 3 years since his loss to Hagler, he had won big fights that earned him another shot at the title.

    The result? Hamsho got knocked out in the 3rd round. So even though he was better and Hagler was worse, Hagler scored an even bigger victory. This is because combat does not take place on paper, it involves tons of different variables and the end result can often be counter intuitive.

    Do you see where I'm going with this?

    Is Hezbollah stronger today than in 2006? Damn right they are. Is it going to save them in the next war? I doubt it.

    This is because combat does not take place on paper, it involves tons of different variables and the end result can often be counter intuitive.

    So you think for the past 12 years Hizbullah has been sitting home drawing combat pictures? Or, do you think the War in Syria wasn’t a real war? Everyone agrees that Hizbullah is now a battle hardened, combat experienced war machine. That is why in spite of all the rhetoric, Israel has not dared to make any move against Hizbullah.

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS

    Everyone agrees that Hizbullah is now a battle hardened, combat experienced war machine.
     
    Mostly everyone. The same everyone who agrees on anything without much expertise and thinking.

    The minority who doesn't agree have a slightly different take:
    Hizbullah is now an increasingly battle weary armed group. They spend resources, including time, take casualties and gain experience not really beneficial to a future fight with the main enemy.
    They even think that Hezbollah engagement in Syria benefits Israel.
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  124. MEexpert says:
    @Greasy William

    As a Lebanese, my only comment is that the writer of the article has described the feeling and general mood in Lebanon very accurate.
     
    And as a Jew, I just want to say: we're coming for you.

    You say the mood in the country is good. Let's see how good it is after the next war when we have destroyed every power and water plant in your country and ethnically cleansed the southern portion of it. And you won't have the Saudis to pay for reconstruction this time.

    Get used to living like a Gazan.

    Let’s see how good it is after the next war when we have destroyed every power and water plant in your country and ethnically cleansed the southern portion of it.

    Then why haven’t you? The brave little country didn’t even have the courage to attack Lebanon while Hizbullah was busy wiping out ISIS in Iraq and Syria. Furthermore, Israel is only good for destroying infrastructure. The Israelis can’t face the real army.

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  125. MEexpert says:
    @L.K
    In the study "Back to Basics", US Lieutenant Colonel Scott C. Farquhar, wrote:

    American professional military personnel are well-acquainted with “the arrogant show of strength” that was Task Force Smith in Korea in the summer of 1950 and of its fate. A similar result occurred when the vaunted IDF attacked into Lebanon in 2006 against the guerrilla army of Hezbollah: a firstworld army was fought to a standstill by a tough and determined enemy despite overwhelming air power. The IDF pitted ill-trained soldiers and ill-educated officers, who attempted to carry out vague orders and unfamiliar tasks, against a small group of men with good weapons and a simple mission.
     
    He examines the IOF supposed improvements after the 2006 defeat and its better performance against the Palestinians trapped in Gaza during operation Cast Lead, in late December 2008-January 2009, but cautions that Hamas was much weaker than Hezbollah:

    ...Hezbollah presented the Israelis with a well trained, well led and suitably equipped force with sufficient space to defend in depth. Hamas was inadequately trained and poorly led with little space to trade for producing Israeli casualties.... Conversely, as in the case of Hamas, an underequipped, ill trained and poorly commanded opponent can be an annoyance—but it will not stand long against significant national power. Hamas presented the Israelis with a poor imitation of Hezbollah...
     

    The difference between the mighty Israeli army and the little Hizbullah army is that of leadership. The fat cat generals of Israeli army can hardly move with all those heavy medals, won during all the wars against unarmed Palestinians, pinned on their chests while, the Hizbullah army is led by a black turbaned and black-robed simple soldier with only the medal of his faith pinned in his heart.

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  126. Anon[547] • Disclaimer says:

    I see that my comment has stimulated several comments. Of course, I am not going to debate with militant Zionist because it is pointless. Is he Israeli or Jew or whatever or not, I dont know,because one doesnt have to be Israeli to be quite agressive, but I dont have a feeling that he had experienced real war or worse, a horror bombardment which I did. I know very well what does it mean when f16 flies over your head and dropping bombs on your village. As for others,and those who are Lebanese who do not share my opinion (and why should everyone think like me after all)..you know,I cant say that I adore this or that politician,or party and so on. Moreover,I dislike this old-minded emigration that lives in the past. I am also emigree since 2008,although I have a lot of family at home,and I am traveling back several times per year. However,at least I have a respect for everyone in Lebanon,because it belongs to all Lebanese. It does not belong to Zionists,of course,nor takfiris nor any other colonialist power. It used to be that way,and that brought a lot of misery to our sacred land. therefore,there is one historical lesson that we have learned.. The best way to be left alone is to be strong enough,dangerous enough so nobody with bad attitude cannot touch you. That is main reason why Resistance exists. As for Zionist,I have only one message,if you attack,there are lot of surprises that awaits you..of course,I have no idea what is going on around me,but I wouldnt try..

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  127. Mulegino1 says:
    @anon
    I'm not interested in the official story but in the sometimes absurd contortions people go through to uphold a view that the obvious isn't right. The obvious starts with people, principally Osama bin Laden, who wish America harm and have both willing "martyrs" volunteering and a track record of similar suicide attacks. Those who don't like what follows include an amazing number of the truly deluded like those who think it was all CGI. Others though not deluded fail to see many important answers to their usually third hand objections. For an example that I haven't seen addressed before, some truthers pour derision on the idea that four or five men with no more formidable a weapon than a boxcutter could have highjacked a plane. What they overlook was not only the unpreparedness of everyone for such attacks but, specifically, the obvious presumption by all those on board in 2001 that the highjacking is for ransom or for escape to another country. So the reaction would have been initially not to raise the temperature and to stay calm oneself.

    You seem to have learned some of the elementary psychology behind people sticking to bad arguments but fail to apply it to yourself.

    What is for you “obvious” is certainly not “right”, since it is merely an officially sanctioned narrative manufactured by the media at the behest of officialdom, constructed from the top down, unlike a real case constructed upon a painstaking evaluation of factual evidence. The narrative starts out with a media driven pronouncement, “Osama bin Laden, box cutters, 19 hijackers, commercial airliners hitting buildings, collapse due to office fires, etc.”

    In reality, there were no “collapses.” The destruction of WTC 1, 2, 7 (along with the entire core of WTC 6) did not involve “collapses”, it involved the disintegration of most of the metallic and concrete components of the Twin Towers via explosive energy, and the implosion of WTC 7 in a more conventional manner. When dealing with steel and concrete skyscrapers, fire damage is never going to lead to symmetrical and universal collapse at free fall acceleration. It will not happen and it did not happen on 9/11.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    What are your personal engineering qualifications to make the assertions you do as if you were an expert witness? Clearly none, so why should I accord them any weight rather than rely on inter alia better qualified unbiased sources whom I am acquainted with?

    Assuming you claim no personal expertise can you say how much time you have spent in serious discussion of the subject with qualified experts. (It is a long time since I studied relevant physics, chemistry and applied math but I have had enough experience of expert witnesses not to regard mere cocktsil party observations by them as useful).
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  128. @peterAUS
    Can't argue that.
    Could you argue that the public was deliberately lied to re Iraqi WMDs?

    That, sometimes, "the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy".

    Now, in this particular example, "WTC 7", things are, IMHO, not as clear cut as we are led to believe by MSM.

    So, true, I can be called anything anyone here wants. Fine with me. In fact, if my opinion wasn't pissing at least somebody around I'd feel something was missing.

    So...in this case something isn't quite right.

    As I said....I can not find ONE example of similar case.

    And,well, maybe I don't know much about making buildings. But, I am absolutely positive that I do know more about destroying them than 90 % of posters here. Probably even 95. Anyone here completed just a basic demolition course, for example? Let alone knowing something about effects of weaponry on modern buildings etc. I mean, that's the part of another course I spout I completed, MOUT/FIBUA related. Or, "how to bring that building down".

    So, to keep this funny, I'd really like to know that combination of ...things...that brought that building down.
    Say, the mission is to destroy a strongpoint to advance further into the city. The strongpoint is a building as WTC7 manned by a company of enemy. Too costly to assault, let's reduce it. HOW?
    Well, the usual is: from decent bombing from air, through very decent direct artillery fire (at least 150 mm), to sending a combat assault engineers in. Not bad if you weren't one of them.
    Option "WTC7": suppress the building and send a helicopter gunship with a...canister....with those ingredients that brought down the "original". Drop and watch.
    That's for the First World military.

    For some...ahm...other "militaries" of this world that knowledge would be invaluable re race/religion/ethnicity warfare. Say, destroy the town...... Using "WTC7" method is simple, cheap and fast.

    The WTC towers and other buildings ie WTC buildings 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 were destroyed by a particle beam weapon, see Dr. Judy Wood.com.

    The ones behind the attack on 911 were Israel and the Zionist controlled deep state.

    Read More
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  129. Mulegino1 says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    The "official story" prevails but could be blown out of the water by proof that the flights said to be involved never had substantial passenger or crew lists of people who were killed. Any half decent lawyer could get hold of those lists and make it possible to do at least an adequate sample check with probate records, death certificate, obituaries, family.

    As I have noted the official story prevails. The ball is in your court. If you are a serious person stop w**king on the www and organise a test.

    The official story “prevails” only in the imagination of that portion of the public that is too lazy or ignorant to either care or look into the facts, which clearly prove it to be an utter fantasy.

    You are correct about the “test”, but such a thing would be superfluous. Anyone familiar with rudimentary ballistics knows that, in order to penetrate structural steel, armor piercing ammunition is required. What kind of round is capable of penetrating a perimeter box column at the alleged point of impact of WTC 2? We are talking about 1/2″ of structural steel (not to mention the steel spandrels, which were much thicker and stronger). Would it be a hollow aluminum bullet with a rounded nose (which is what a Boeing 767 was) or an armor piercing round with a sharpened and hardened alloy tip, an alloy jacket and a solid steel core? Since the airliners were allegedly used as missiles, then ballistics enters into the equation.

    But the above is only one in a series of questions. Can a building collapse due to fire damage? Of course it can. Has a steel and concrete skyscraper-other than WTC 1,2 and 7- ever collapsed due to hydrocarbon based fire damage? No. What is the likelihood that twin towers x and z would- although supposedly struck in different areas and levels, “collapse” in the exact same symmetrical manner and approaching (or even exceeding) free fall acceleration- and that most of their steel and concrete components would experience molecular dissociation and form a cloud of hot, toxic dust due to “office fires”? Zero.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    I can't be bothered wasting time on such clueless parroting of amateur truther stuff. But I will just point out what should be obvious to you on reflection.

    1. The ballistic comparison is nonsense. The most obvious reason is that what it takes to make a hole in a steel plate has little relation to what it takes to collapse a steel frame or grid by thrusting many tons of solid stuff at 500 mph between upright members.

    2. The free fall argument is equally rubbish as what anyone could see or photograph after disintegrating concrete and other materials were propelled out from the side of the building was inevitably going to be in free fall (the horizontal vector being irrelevant to thst as even a scientific ignoramus should know) and of course that huge cloud of dust obscured the (slightly) slower collapsing lower floors:

    3. Your "molecular dissociation" is also bizarre - whatever you think it means. Molecules are, apart from subatomic particles, the smallest parts of matter and invisible to the naked eye. The existence of visible dust is inconsistent with declumping by dissociation into independent unattached molecules!

    What nutters and loony tunes do you listen to? Have you no standards by which you can judge whether someone spouts confident nonsense?

    , @peterAUS

    The official story “prevails” only in the imagination of that portion of the public that is too lazy or ignorant to either care or look into the facts, which clearly prove it to be an utter fantasy.
     
    Or too afraid.
    Fear of unbridled power can be a very good motivator there. And, interestingly enough, it works very well with really intelligent and educated people.
    Just a thought. Not mine, mind you, some other people explained it well somewhere some time ago.I just agree.
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  130. anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mulegino1
    What is for you "obvious" is certainly not "right", since it is merely an officially sanctioned narrative manufactured by the media at the behest of officialdom, constructed from the top down, unlike a real case constructed upon a painstaking evaluation of factual evidence. The narrative starts out with a media driven pronouncement, "Osama bin Laden, box cutters, 19 hijackers, commercial airliners hitting buildings, collapse due to office fires, etc."

    In reality, there were no "collapses." The destruction of WTC 1, 2, 7 (along with the entire core of WTC 6) did not involve "collapses", it involved the disintegration of most of the metallic and concrete components of the Twin Towers via explosive energy, and the implosion of WTC 7 in a more conventional manner. When dealing with steel and concrete skyscrapers, fire damage is never going to lead to symmetrical and universal collapse at free fall acceleration. It will not happen and it did not happen on 9/11.

    What are your personal engineering qualifications to make the assertions you do as if you were an expert witness? Clearly none, so why should I accord them any weight rather than rely on inter alia better qualified unbiased sources whom I am acquainted with?

    Assuming you claim no personal expertise can you say how much time you have spent in serious discussion of the subject with qualified experts. (It is a long time since I studied relevant physics, chemistry and applied math but I have had enough experience of expert witnesses not to regard mere cocktsil party observations by them as useful).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mulegino1
    Your credentialism is entirely predictable, but not at all convincing. Common sense and a knowledge of firefighting engineering tells me that the structural steel and concrete components of structures are not disintegrated and turned to dust by hydrocarbon based office fires initiated by jet fuel. Yet this happened- or is alleged to have happened- on 9/11.

    Also, common sense and a perusal of the history of gravity collapses of structures tells me that such collapses due to external and internal damage - perhaps due to fire- do not occur symmetrically, instantaneously and- especially with respect to steel framed and concrete structures- universally. It would have been reasonable to expect a partial and asymmetrical collapse of some of the upper floors of the Twin Towers. It would be absurd to expect what really happened- the buildings instantaneously, symmetrically and universally "collapsing" (actually they were exploding from within) at close to (or even exceeding) free fall acceleration.

    To be a juror in a criminal case, it is not necessary to be an "expert witness" but to have and exercise common sense, critical thinking skills and a modicum of knowledge. In your case, you have confused your shilling for official (and patently absurd) narratives with critical thinking and common sense, two qualities which you appear to be deficient in.

    , @jpb
    Since you accept credentials and authority as the deciders of truth, you can round out your one sided roundup of 9/11 talking points by reading Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth.

    https://www.ae911truth.org/
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  131. anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mulegino1
    The official story "prevails" only in the imagination of that portion of the public that is too lazy or ignorant to either care or look into the facts, which clearly prove it to be an utter fantasy.

    You are correct about the "test", but such a thing would be superfluous. Anyone familiar with rudimentary ballistics knows that, in order to penetrate structural steel, armor piercing ammunition is required. What kind of round is capable of penetrating a perimeter box column at the alleged point of impact of WTC 2? We are talking about 1/2" of structural steel (not to mention the steel spandrels, which were much thicker and stronger). Would it be a hollow aluminum bullet with a rounded nose (which is what a Boeing 767 was) or an armor piercing round with a sharpened and hardened alloy tip, an alloy jacket and a solid steel core? Since the airliners were allegedly used as missiles, then ballistics enters into the equation.

    But the above is only one in a series of questions. Can a building collapse due to fire damage? Of course it can. Has a steel and concrete skyscraper-other than WTC 1,2 and 7- ever collapsed due to hydrocarbon based fire damage? No. What is the likelihood that twin towers x and z would- although supposedly struck in different areas and levels, "collapse" in the exact same symmetrical manner and approaching (or even exceeding) free fall acceleration- and that most of their steel and concrete components would experience molecular dissociation and form a cloud of hot, toxic dust due to "office fires"? Zero.

    I can’t be bothered wasting time on such clueless parroting of amateur truther stuff. But I will just point out what should be obvious to you on reflection.

    1. The ballistic comparison is nonsense. The most obvious reason is that what it takes to make a hole in a steel plate has little relation to what it takes to collapse a steel frame or grid by thrusting many tons of solid stuff at 500 mph between upright members.

    2. The free fall argument is equally rubbish as what anyone could see or photograph after disintegrating concrete and other materials were propelled out from the side of the building was inevitably going to be in free fall (the horizontal vector being irrelevant to thst as even a scientific ignoramus should know) and of course that huge cloud of dust obscured the (slightly) slower collapsing lower floors:

    3. Your “molecular dissociation” is also bizarre – whatever you think it means. Molecules are, apart from subatomic particles, the smallest parts of matter and invisible to the naked eye. The existence of visible dust is inconsistent with declumping by dissociation into independent unattached molecules!

    What nutters and loony tunes do you listen to? Have you no standards by which you can judge whether someone spouts confident nonsense?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mulegino1
    Refuting your meretricious shilling for the establishment is pretty effortless.

    The ballistics argument is entirely valid. Once any flying object, whether it is an arrow, a rock, a bullet or an airliner is used as a weapon, then ballistics enter the equation. A commercial Boeing 767 would make a very poor armor piercing bullet. And structural steel can definitely be considered armor. The soft and hollow carbon nose cone of a 767 can be severely damaged by colliding with a bird in flight at cruising speed. It would not be very adept at penetrating the structural steel perimeter columns, spandrels and concrete pans of WTC 2, now would it? It does not matter if it is "solid stuff". The perimeter columns and concrete of the WTC are much more solid and rigid than the hollow and thin skinned fuselage of a 767. Compare a 767 to an armor piercing round which can indeed pierce 1/2" (1/4"+1/4")- a hollow and light ductile aluminium cylinder with quite delicate wings whose tips are so delicate they cannot bear any more load than the running lights, to the hardened alloy tip, tungsten metal jacket and solid steel core of an armor piercing round. Invoking "solid stuff" is a rather nebulous evasion.

    Also, even NIST acknowledges that WTC 7 fell at free fall acceleration. This is stunning. Office fires and flying debris are not capable of removing all underlying support of a steel and concrete skyscraper, which is what "free fall" entails. Besides, only a fool can look at the implosion of WTC 7 and claim that it is not controlled demolition.

    As for the molecular dissociation of most of the steel and concrete, that simply means that the compounds were disintegrated, as one of the signature elements of the dust- particles of free iron- demonstrate conclusively. That was the dust cloud that blanketed lower Manhattan- the disintegrated components of the WTC. No hydrocarbon based office fire or gravity collapse on earth can do this.

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  132. Mulegino1 says:
    @anon
    What are your personal engineering qualifications to make the assertions you do as if you were an expert witness? Clearly none, so why should I accord them any weight rather than rely on inter alia better qualified unbiased sources whom I am acquainted with?

    Assuming you claim no personal expertise can you say how much time you have spent in serious discussion of the subject with qualified experts. (It is a long time since I studied relevant physics, chemistry and applied math but I have had enough experience of expert witnesses not to regard mere cocktsil party observations by them as useful).

    Your credentialism is entirely predictable, but not at all convincing. Common sense and a knowledge of firefighting engineering tells me that the structural steel and concrete components of structures are not disintegrated and turned to dust by hydrocarbon based office fires initiated by jet fuel. Yet this happened- or is alleged to have happened- on 9/11.

    Also, common sense and a perusal of the history of gravity collapses of structures tells me that such collapses due to external and internal damage – perhaps due to fire- do not occur symmetrically, instantaneously and- especially with respect to steel framed and concrete structures- universally. It would have been reasonable to expect a partial and asymmetrical collapse of some of the upper floors of the Twin Towers. It would be absurd to expect what really happened- the buildings instantaneously, symmetrically and universally “collapsing” (actually they were exploding from within) at close to (or even exceeding) free fall acceleration.

    To be a juror in a criminal case, it is not necessary to be an “expert witness” but to have and exercise common sense, critical thinking skills and a modicum of knowledge. In your case, you have confused your shilling for official (and patently absurd) narratives with critical thinking and common sense, two qualities which you appear to be deficient in.

    Read More
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  133. Mulegino1 says:
    @anon
    I can't be bothered wasting time on such clueless parroting of amateur truther stuff. But I will just point out what should be obvious to you on reflection.

    1. The ballistic comparison is nonsense. The most obvious reason is that what it takes to make a hole in a steel plate has little relation to what it takes to collapse a steel frame or grid by thrusting many tons of solid stuff at 500 mph between upright members.

    2. The free fall argument is equally rubbish as what anyone could see or photograph after disintegrating concrete and other materials were propelled out from the side of the building was inevitably going to be in free fall (the horizontal vector being irrelevant to thst as even a scientific ignoramus should know) and of course that huge cloud of dust obscured the (slightly) slower collapsing lower floors:

    3. Your "molecular dissociation" is also bizarre - whatever you think it means. Molecules are, apart from subatomic particles, the smallest parts of matter and invisible to the naked eye. The existence of visible dust is inconsistent with declumping by dissociation into independent unattached molecules!

    What nutters and loony tunes do you listen to? Have you no standards by which you can judge whether someone spouts confident nonsense?

    Refuting your meretricious shilling for the establishment is pretty effortless.

    The ballistics argument is entirely valid. Once any flying object, whether it is an arrow, a rock, a bullet or an airliner is used as a weapon, then ballistics enter the equation. A commercial Boeing 767 would make a very poor armor piercing bullet. And structural steel can definitely be considered armor. The soft and hollow carbon nose cone of a 767 can be severely damaged by colliding with a bird in flight at cruising speed. It would not be very adept at penetrating the structural steel perimeter columns, spandrels and concrete pans of WTC 2, now would it? It does not matter if it is “solid stuff”. The perimeter columns and concrete of the WTC are much more solid and rigid than the hollow and thin skinned fuselage of a 767. Compare a 767 to an armor piercing round which can indeed pierce 1/2″ (1/4″+1/4″)- a hollow and light ductile aluminium cylinder with quite delicate wings whose tips are so delicate they cannot bear any more load than the running lights, to the hardened alloy tip, tungsten metal jacket and solid steel core of an armor piercing round. Invoking “solid stuff” is a rather nebulous evasion.

    Also, even NIST acknowledges that WTC 7 fell at free fall acceleration. This is stunning. Office fires and flying debris are not capable of removing all underlying support of a steel and concrete skyscraper, which is what “free fall” entails. Besides, only a fool can look at the implosion of WTC 7 and claim that it is not controlled demolition.

    As for the molecular dissociation of most of the steel and concrete, that simply means that the compounds were disintegrated, as one of the signature elements of the dust- particles of free iron- demonstrate conclusively. That was the dust cloud that blanketed lower Manhattan- the disintegrated components of the WTC. No hydrocarbon based office fire or gravity collapse on earth can do this.

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS

    Besides, only a fool can look at the implosion of WTC 7 and claim that it is not controlled demolition.
     
    Well, I've seen, THEN, a lot of discussion about all that. Gave up after some time. Shame on me.
    All that high physics ....simply wasn't getting it.
    Sort of reminds me of, say, shooting a man. Aim, brrrp...he drops.
    And, then, you get all the high level medical professionals, spiritual leaders, guys into metaphysics even quantum mechanics trying to explain what just happened. Too much for us simple guys.

    So, in this particular case we do have a conundrum. Simpletons I mean. Guys like me.
    Feels unlikely the WTC7 collapsed simply by being on fire.
    At the other hand, it also feels......doubtful (the right word) that it was rigged. I mean, to do that requires a LOT
    , @anon
    I have been laid up and amusing myself watching TV documentaries including three National Geographic "Air Crash Investigations". One of them I already knew a lot about and I found the National Geographic doco very good and accurate. Not that that mattered for present pirposes because what gave the lie to your nonsense about ballistics and armour piercing bullets was just the pictures of where large parts of the fuselage had plunged into the ground at 500 knots. The one at Lockerbie was huge - and specifically, deep, and the one 65km west of New Delhi in 1996 had the cockpit and forward part of the fuselage of a 747 so deeply embedded in the earth, despite it having become detached and fallen under gravity, that it took days if not weeks to get to the black boxes.
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  134. peterAUS says:
    @ANON
    Yep. WTC 1 and WTC 2. Study the 1960s changes in regs under whuch they were built.

    That’s an interested point.

    Questions:
    Those three are the only buildings built by those standards? Anywhere? I presume not but you could supply the answer (how many, when and which) fast.
    If any of those remaining buildings get on fire, then, we can expect they’ll also collapse, the same way?

    Read More
    • Replies: @ANON
    In the absence of the experience of 9/11 the answer would be yes if airliners with full fuel loads struck them at the same sort of levels or a fire started as in WTC 7 was allowed to burn all day.
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  135. peterAUS says:
    @MEexpert

    This is because combat does not take place on paper, it involves tons of different variables and the end result can often be counter intuitive.
     
    So you think for the past 12 years Hizbullah has been sitting home drawing combat pictures? Or, do you think the War in Syria wasn't a real war? Everyone agrees that Hizbullah is now a battle hardened, combat experienced war machine. That is why in spite of all the rhetoric, Israel has not dared to make any move against Hizbullah.

    Everyone agrees that Hizbullah is now a battle hardened, combat experienced war machine.

    Mostly everyone. The same everyone who agrees on anything without much expertise and thinking.

    The minority who doesn’t agree have a slightly different take:
    Hizbullah is now an increasingly battle weary armed group. They spend resources, including time, take casualties and gain experience not really beneficial to a future fight with the main enemy.
    They even think that Hezbollah engagement in Syria benefits Israel.

    Read More
    • LOL: L.K
    • Replies: @L.K
    there should be a button titled "FRAUD" for trolls such as yourself.

    You are not even remotely a serious person... and you have proven it numerous times...

    Also, you are dishonest as they come...

    For example, when I posted the Guardian link to Colonel David H Hackworth's opinion on the US infantry, and he is one of the ZUS's most highly decorated soldiers, you became hysterical and, cornered like the rat you are, attacked the credibility of the Guardian!!! Nah, this is just some lefty newspaper!! Complete meltdown...
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/oct/29/afghanistan.terrorism2
    America's 'elite' troops
    So how come the country's most decorated soldier thinks they are only good for playing video games?


    Fast forward to some of yer constant trolling under the Saker's pieces - get a life already - and then you actually used the very same The Guardian in order to attack Russia!!
    So suddenly, that leftist rag was good enough for you, right, shyster?

    You are certainly the most pathetic keyboard commando posting here at Unz... I don't know who the hell you think u impress with your shite...
    , @Erebus

    Hizbullah is now an increasingly battle weary armed group. They spend resources, including time, take casualties and gain experience not really beneficial to a future fight with the main enemy.
     
    Let's look at these 1 by 1...
    - HZB rotated their men quite effectively through the "hot zones" in Syria. Maximizing the number of "blooded" fighters without exhausting them (by & large) is generally considered sound military personnel mgmt. Most of their fighters were children in 2006, so the emotional and physical toughening of real "under fire" experience is a great advantage. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger holds for combat troops.
    - Since 2006, they have accumulated an enormous cache of rockets and missiles, some significant portion of which apparently have the range to reach TelAviv. That alone changes the calculus of any war against them.
    - To be sure, combat means casualties, and HZB has taken their fair share in Syria. Their manpower levels, by all accounts however are well above what they had available in 2006.
    - Most importantly, their fighters and commanders also got experience and formal training in new weaponry and combined arms combat under the auspices of a professional officer corps, namely the Russians. That has to count for something, whatever the next enemy they have to fight may be.
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  136. peterAUS says:
    @Mulegino1
    The official story "prevails" only in the imagination of that portion of the public that is too lazy or ignorant to either care or look into the facts, which clearly prove it to be an utter fantasy.

    You are correct about the "test", but such a thing would be superfluous. Anyone familiar with rudimentary ballistics knows that, in order to penetrate structural steel, armor piercing ammunition is required. What kind of round is capable of penetrating a perimeter box column at the alleged point of impact of WTC 2? We are talking about 1/2" of structural steel (not to mention the steel spandrels, which were much thicker and stronger). Would it be a hollow aluminum bullet with a rounded nose (which is what a Boeing 767 was) or an armor piercing round with a sharpened and hardened alloy tip, an alloy jacket and a solid steel core? Since the airliners were allegedly used as missiles, then ballistics enters into the equation.

    But the above is only one in a series of questions. Can a building collapse due to fire damage? Of course it can. Has a steel and concrete skyscraper-other than WTC 1,2 and 7- ever collapsed due to hydrocarbon based fire damage? No. What is the likelihood that twin towers x and z would- although supposedly struck in different areas and levels, "collapse" in the exact same symmetrical manner and approaching (or even exceeding) free fall acceleration- and that most of their steel and concrete components would experience molecular dissociation and form a cloud of hot, toxic dust due to "office fires"? Zero.

    The official story “prevails” only in the imagination of that portion of the public that is too lazy or ignorant to either care or look into the facts, which clearly prove it to be an utter fantasy.

    Or too afraid.
    Fear of unbridled power can be a very good motivator there. And, interestingly enough, it works very well with really intelligent and educated people.
    Just a thought. Not mine, mind you, some other people explained it well somewhere some time ago.I just agree.

    Read More
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  137. jpb says:
    @anon
    What are your personal engineering qualifications to make the assertions you do as if you were an expert witness? Clearly none, so why should I accord them any weight rather than rely on inter alia better qualified unbiased sources whom I am acquainted with?

    Assuming you claim no personal expertise can you say how much time you have spent in serious discussion of the subject with qualified experts. (It is a long time since I studied relevant physics, chemistry and applied math but I have had enough experience of expert witnesses not to regard mere cocktsil party observations by them as useful).

    Since you accept credentials and authority as the deciders of truth, you can round out your one sided roundup of 9/11 talking points by reading Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth.

    https://www.ae911truth.org/

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    Because I (correctly) question that commenter's credentials for making authotitative seeming assertions about technical matters is no basis for your opening assertion. Assuming you are not dishonest that suggests either an IQ problem or one stemming from the company you keep. Accordingly it may be fruitless to suggest, though I do it, that you search past UR threads for convincing demonstration that your architects and engineers don't cut the mustard (and never did... but I would be surprised if you found any heavyweight additions to that old list of non-luminaries).

    Don't even you regard it as pathetic that M...1 is so confident of his "common sense" that he rejects the test he admits is valid wrt to the passengers and crew *even though that IS within a layman's competence to initiate*?
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  138. L.K says:
    @peterAUS

    Everyone agrees that Hizbullah is now a battle hardened, combat experienced war machine.
     
    Mostly everyone. The same everyone who agrees on anything without much expertise and thinking.

    The minority who doesn't agree have a slightly different take:
    Hizbullah is now an increasingly battle weary armed group. They spend resources, including time, take casualties and gain experience not really beneficial to a future fight with the main enemy.
    They even think that Hezbollah engagement in Syria benefits Israel.

    there should be a button titled “FRAUD” for trolls such as yourself.

    You are not even remotely a serious person… and you have proven it numerous times…

    Also, you are dishonest as they come…

    For example, when I posted the Guardian link to Colonel David H Hackworth’s opinion on the US infantry, and he is one of the ZUS’s most highly decorated soldiers, you became hysterical and, cornered like the rat you are, attacked the credibility of the Guardian!!! Nah, this is just some lefty newspaper!! Complete meltdown…

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/oct/29/afghanistan.terrorism2

    America’s ‘elite’ troops
    So how come the country’s most decorated soldier thinks they are only good for playing video games?

    Fast forward to some of yer constant trolling under the Saker’s pieces – get a life already – and then you actually used the very same The Guardian in order to attack Russia!!
    So suddenly, that leftist rag was good enough for you, right, shyster?

    You are certainly the most pathetic keyboard commando posting here at Unz… I don’t know who the hell you think u impress with your shite…

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS

    trolls such as yourself.

    You are not even remotely a serious person…

    Also, you are dishonest as they come…

    you became hysterical and, cornered like the rat you are

    yer constant trolling

    you, right, shyster?

    You are certainly the most pathetic keyboard commando posting here at Unz…

    your shite…

     

    Free speech "my friend".
    Advice: put me on ignore. Or take your pills before reading my posts. Or do burpees after reading them.
    Free will.
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  139. peterAUS says:
    @Mulegino1
    Refuting your meretricious shilling for the establishment is pretty effortless.

    The ballistics argument is entirely valid. Once any flying object, whether it is an arrow, a rock, a bullet or an airliner is used as a weapon, then ballistics enter the equation. A commercial Boeing 767 would make a very poor armor piercing bullet. And structural steel can definitely be considered armor. The soft and hollow carbon nose cone of a 767 can be severely damaged by colliding with a bird in flight at cruising speed. It would not be very adept at penetrating the structural steel perimeter columns, spandrels and concrete pans of WTC 2, now would it? It does not matter if it is "solid stuff". The perimeter columns and concrete of the WTC are much more solid and rigid than the hollow and thin skinned fuselage of a 767. Compare a 767 to an armor piercing round which can indeed pierce 1/2" (1/4"+1/4")- a hollow and light ductile aluminium cylinder with quite delicate wings whose tips are so delicate they cannot bear any more load than the running lights, to the hardened alloy tip, tungsten metal jacket and solid steel core of an armor piercing round. Invoking "solid stuff" is a rather nebulous evasion.

    Also, even NIST acknowledges that WTC 7 fell at free fall acceleration. This is stunning. Office fires and flying debris are not capable of removing all underlying support of a steel and concrete skyscraper, which is what "free fall" entails. Besides, only a fool can look at the implosion of WTC 7 and claim that it is not controlled demolition.

    As for the molecular dissociation of most of the steel and concrete, that simply means that the compounds were disintegrated, as one of the signature elements of the dust- particles of free iron- demonstrate conclusively. That was the dust cloud that blanketed lower Manhattan- the disintegrated components of the WTC. No hydrocarbon based office fire or gravity collapse on earth can do this.

    Besides, only a fool can look at the implosion of WTC 7 and claim that it is not controlled demolition.

    Well, I’ve seen, THEN, a lot of discussion about all that. Gave up after some time. Shame on me.
    All that high physics ….simply wasn’t getting it.
    Sort of reminds me of, say, shooting a man. Aim, brrrp…he drops.
    And, then, you get all the high level medical professionals, spiritual leaders, guys into metaphysics even quantum mechanics trying to explain what just happened. Too much for us simple guys.

    So, in this particular case we do have a conundrum. Simpletons I mean. Guys like me.
    Feels unlikely the WTC7 collapsed simply by being on fire.
    At the other hand, it also feels……doubtful (the right word) that it was rigged. I mean, to do that requires a LOT

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    wrong click...
    of very careful (duh) and competent work by a lot of people.
    Some other, more exotic, explanations feel even more doubtful.

    My take anyway.
    , @Mulegino1
    Rigging a building with explosives may require a LOT, but achieving something that is virtually impossible in the real world requires even MORE. We could say, a LOT MORE.

    As Conan Doyle wrote, "When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

    Not even the authoritative voice of CNN can make the impossible possible.
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  140. peterAUS says:
    @peterAUS

    Besides, only a fool can look at the implosion of WTC 7 and claim that it is not controlled demolition.
     
    Well, I've seen, THEN, a lot of discussion about all that. Gave up after some time. Shame on me.
    All that high physics ....simply wasn't getting it.
    Sort of reminds me of, say, shooting a man. Aim, brrrp...he drops.
    And, then, you get all the high level medical professionals, spiritual leaders, guys into metaphysics even quantum mechanics trying to explain what just happened. Too much for us simple guys.

    So, in this particular case we do have a conundrum. Simpletons I mean. Guys like me.
    Feels unlikely the WTC7 collapsed simply by being on fire.
    At the other hand, it also feels......doubtful (the right word) that it was rigged. I mean, to do that requires a LOT

    wrong click…
    of very careful (duh) and competent work by a lot of people.
    Some other, more exotic, explanations feel even more doubtful.

    My take anyway.

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    The problem with this, "WTC7" topic is that one side is rather more passionate than the other. Makes a "discussion/debate" a skewed a bit.
    Say, one states what he believes in here. One side is likely to shrug and move on; another is likely to try to "educate" him.

    So, personally, I am more inclined to believe in the official theory.

    Although it's not easy to accept that "uniqueness"(re regulations etc as ANON[436] said) it's even less easy to accept that the building was rigged before.
    Rigging it after the planes impact is just not possible.
    Using some other means, even less easy to buy.

    So, say, reluctantly, I'd go for 70/30 for the official ("uniqueness"-regulations) explanation and keep open mind for some new info in the future.
    Just me.

    Note: just saw ANON[436] comment above (143). Again, I buy it, 70/30.

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  141. peterAUS says:
    @L.K
    there should be a button titled "FRAUD" for trolls such as yourself.

    You are not even remotely a serious person... and you have proven it numerous times...

    Also, you are dishonest as they come...

    For example, when I posted the Guardian link to Colonel David H Hackworth's opinion on the US infantry, and he is one of the ZUS's most highly decorated soldiers, you became hysterical and, cornered like the rat you are, attacked the credibility of the Guardian!!! Nah, this is just some lefty newspaper!! Complete meltdown...
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/oct/29/afghanistan.terrorism2
    America's 'elite' troops
    So how come the country's most decorated soldier thinks they are only good for playing video games?


    Fast forward to some of yer constant trolling under the Saker's pieces - get a life already - and then you actually used the very same The Guardian in order to attack Russia!!
    So suddenly, that leftist rag was good enough for you, right, shyster?

    You are certainly the most pathetic keyboard commando posting here at Unz... I don't know who the hell you think u impress with your shite...

    trolls such as yourself.

    You are not even remotely a serious person…

    Also, you are dishonest as they come…

    you became hysterical and, cornered like the rat you are

    yer constant trolling

    you, right, shyster?

    You are certainly the most pathetic keyboard commando posting here at Unz…

    your shite…

    Free speech “my friend”.
    Advice: put me on ignore. Or take your pills before reading my posts. Or do burpees after reading them.
    Free will.

    Read More
    • Replies: @L.K
    Nah... it is fun to just expose you for the sad little liar you are...

    Btw, joker, your kind does not believe in free speech...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7iBmLsbhR8
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  142. L.K says:
    @peterAUS

    trolls such as yourself.

    You are not even remotely a serious person…

    Also, you are dishonest as they come…

    you became hysterical and, cornered like the rat you are

    yer constant trolling

    you, right, shyster?

    You are certainly the most pathetic keyboard commando posting here at Unz…

    your shite…

     

    Free speech "my friend".
    Advice: put me on ignore. Or take your pills before reading my posts. Or do burpees after reading them.
    Free will.

    Nah… it is fun to just expose you for the sad little liar you are…

    Btw, joker, your kind does not believe in free speech…

    Read More
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  143. ANON[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @peterAUS
    That's an interested point.

    Questions:
    Those three are the only buildings built by those standards? Anywhere? I presume not but you could supply the answer (how many, when and which) fast.
    If any of those remaining buildings get on fire, then, we can expect they'll also collapse, the same way?

    In the absence of the experience of 9/11 the answer would be yes if airliners with full fuel loads struck them at the same sort of levels or a fire started as in WTC 7 was allowed to burn all day.

    Read More
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  144. anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @jpb
    Since you accept credentials and authority as the deciders of truth, you can round out your one sided roundup of 9/11 talking points by reading Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth.

    https://www.ae911truth.org/

    Because I (correctly) question that commenter’s credentials for making authotitative seeming assertions about technical matters is no basis for your opening assertion. Assuming you are not dishonest that suggests either an IQ problem or one stemming from the company you keep. Accordingly it may be fruitless to suggest, though I do it, that you search past UR threads for convincing demonstration that your architects and engineers don’t cut the mustard (and never did… but I would be surprised if you found any heavyweight additions to that old list of non-luminaries).

    Don’t even you regard it as pathetic that M…1 is so confident of his “common sense” that he rejects the test he admits is valid wrt to the passengers and crew *even though that IS within a layman’s competence to initiate*?

    Read More
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  145. peterAUS says:
    @peterAUS
    wrong click...
    of very careful (duh) and competent work by a lot of people.
    Some other, more exotic, explanations feel even more doubtful.

    My take anyway.

    The problem with this, “WTC7″ topic is that one side is rather more passionate than the other. Makes a “discussion/debate” a skewed a bit.
    Say, one states what he believes in here. One side is likely to shrug and move on; another is likely to try to “educate” him.

    So, personally, I am more inclined to believe in the official theory.

    Although it’s not easy to accept that “uniqueness”(re regulations etc as ANON[436] said) it’s even less easy to accept that the building was rigged before.
    Rigging it after the planes impact is just not possible.
    Using some other means, even less easy to buy.

    So, say, reluctantly, I’d go for 70/30 for the official (“uniqueness”-regulations) explanation and keep open mind for some new info in the future.
    Just me.

    Note: just saw ANON[436] comment above (143). Again, I buy it, 70/30.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mulegino1
    I would dare to opine that the numbers would more likely be in the 0/100 range; the odds of "climbing Mount Improbable Official 9/11" would amount to something infinitesimally close to 0. The clincher is not the improbable flight paths, maneuvers and air speeds of the Boeing 767's at sea level, said to be the work of amateur pilot hijackers- which could not be duplicated by experienced airline pilots in professional simulators, even though these pilots had hundreds or thousands of hours of "time in type". Nor would the decisive argument be the unlikelihood of office fire weakening the transverse trusses causing their weakening and a localized structural failure. No, the decisive evidence against the official story is the physical impossibility of jet fuel initiated office fires causing the disintegration of most of the steel and concrete components of WTC 1, 2 (and the core of WTC 6) causing the dust clouds which blanketed lower Manhattan. No raging hydrocarbon based fire on earth- not the Windsor Tower inferno or the more recent Dubai skyscraper torch, which burned days longer than the hour or so long office fires on 9/11- has ever caused steel or concrete components to be turned to dust or disintegrated.

    Are we supposed to believe in some magical "Bin Laden Transformation" in order to accept the official story?

    The official narrative is a legend in search of Procrustean corroboration, not something likely or even possible in the real world.

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  146. L.K. -

    You are welcome to continue anyway you want, but I would suggest that most of the readers here can determine without your help which of the others is this, that, or whatever.

    I’ve been following UNZ and the issues covered here for quite some time and you are not even close to convincing with your attack on PeterAUS.

    Your opinion is shared by others, to be sure – however, that in itself means nothing. Everybody is an asshole, it depends who you ask.

    You spend too much time attacking and criticizing versus adding anything fresh.

    You’ve convinced me to skip your comments. PeterAUS is more intelligent and interesting, whether I agree with him or not.

    Read More
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  147. Mulegino1 says:
    @peterAUS
    The problem with this, "WTC7" topic is that one side is rather more passionate than the other. Makes a "discussion/debate" a skewed a bit.
    Say, one states what he believes in here. One side is likely to shrug and move on; another is likely to try to "educate" him.

    So, personally, I am more inclined to believe in the official theory.

    Although it's not easy to accept that "uniqueness"(re regulations etc as ANON[436] said) it's even less easy to accept that the building was rigged before.
    Rigging it after the planes impact is just not possible.
    Using some other means, even less easy to buy.

    So, say, reluctantly, I'd go for 70/30 for the official ("uniqueness"-regulations) explanation and keep open mind for some new info in the future.
    Just me.

    Note: just saw ANON[436] comment above (143). Again, I buy it, 70/30.

    I would dare to opine that the numbers would more likely be in the 0/100 range; the odds of “climbing Mount Improbable Official 9/11″ would amount to something infinitesimally close to 0. The clincher is not the improbable flight paths, maneuvers and air speeds of the Boeing 767′s at sea level, said to be the work of amateur pilot hijackers- which could not be duplicated by experienced airline pilots in professional simulators, even though these pilots had hundreds or thousands of hours of “time in type”. Nor would the decisive argument be the unlikelihood of office fire weakening the transverse trusses causing their weakening and a localized structural failure. No, the decisive evidence against the official story is the physical impossibility of jet fuel initiated office fires causing the disintegration of most of the steel and concrete components of WTC 1, 2 (and the core of WTC 6) causing the dust clouds which blanketed lower Manhattan. No raging hydrocarbon based fire on earth- not the Windsor Tower inferno or the more recent Dubai skyscraper torch, which burned days longer than the hour or so long office fires on 9/11- has ever caused steel or concrete components to be turned to dust or disintegrated.

    Are we supposed to believe in some magical “Bin Laden Transformation” in order to accept the official story?

    The official narrative is a legend in search of Procrustean corroboration, not something likely or even possible in the real world.

    Read More
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  148. Mulegino1 says:
    @peterAUS

    Besides, only a fool can look at the implosion of WTC 7 and claim that it is not controlled demolition.
     
    Well, I've seen, THEN, a lot of discussion about all that. Gave up after some time. Shame on me.
    All that high physics ....simply wasn't getting it.
    Sort of reminds me of, say, shooting a man. Aim, brrrp...he drops.
    And, then, you get all the high level medical professionals, spiritual leaders, guys into metaphysics even quantum mechanics trying to explain what just happened. Too much for us simple guys.

    So, in this particular case we do have a conundrum. Simpletons I mean. Guys like me.
    Feels unlikely the WTC7 collapsed simply by being on fire.
    At the other hand, it also feels......doubtful (the right word) that it was rigged. I mean, to do that requires a LOT

    Rigging a building with explosives may require a LOT, but achieving something that is virtually impossible in the real world requires even MORE. We could say, a LOT MORE.

    As Conan Doyle wrote, “When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.”

    Not even the authoritative voice of CNN can make the impossible possible.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
    Exactly. As another example, however implausible one may find mass witness-coaching and mass delusion and susceptibility to propaganda (and really, how implausible are these things, governments propagandize for a simple reason, it works), the absurd claims re. places like Treblinka allow for no other conclusion.
    , @peterAUS
    I hear you.
    I watched, on TV, that day, what was happening and, of course, all that since, but, in decreasing time and effort spent there.
    The problem we, interested laymen have, is that we can see experts explaining, from both sides, things we don't have education and experience to fully comprehend.And I am decently educated man (or so I say) with considerable military experience. Hell, I even had a related courses (admit, before that event) and even seen some related action (building destruction I mean).
    True, one could argue that experts tend to obfuscate things and have vested interested, but, still.

    So, in this case, yes, the point of contention is HOW?

    It is unlikely (but not impossible and it's easy to get into "lawyer speech" here) that the WTC7 was brought down the "official" way, but, it is even less unlikely that is was brought down some other way.

    Of course that a state actor could've had the building rigged. Very difficult, but possible.
    It is also possible that a combination of regulations, building practices and, yes, even a freak combination of events could've created all that.

    You know "freak waves" for example?
    For centuries seamen were saying that and all scientific community was laughing at them. I remember ships being lost in 70's and 80's with extraordinary explanations.
    And, then, we had the Draupner wave.
    Suddenly, literally overnight, the seamen of old were vindicated and scientists..experts...well...they can't get shamed..too smart for that. Too....something else but let's keep to the topic.

    At the end we, simpletons, go with probabilities.
    Now, I am talking, in this (re the " 9/11") only about the WTC7, nothing else.
    So, 70/30, for me, the "official story".

    Now, topic wise (Hezbollah/Israel).
    IDF, among some other things, is the military (or Israel as a state) which takes the "force protection" really serious. Probably more than anyone else.
    That https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namer is an interesting vehicle.
    Now, it appears interesting that IDF doesn't have Bradleys (or similar IFVs), for example. Or that U.S and the rest of NATO don't have vehicles as Namer or Achzarit.
    Anyone here willing to try to explain that?
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  149. @Mulegino1
    Rigging a building with explosives may require a LOT, but achieving something that is virtually impossible in the real world requires even MORE. We could say, a LOT MORE.

    As Conan Doyle wrote, "When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

    Not even the authoritative voice of CNN can make the impossible possible.

    Exactly. As another example, however implausible one may find mass witness-coaching and mass delusion and susceptibility to propaganda (and really, how implausible are these things, governments propagandize for a simple reason, it works), the absurd claims re. places like Treblinka allow for no other conclusion.

    Read More
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  150. peterAUS says:
    @Mulegino1
    Rigging a building with explosives may require a LOT, but achieving something that is virtually impossible in the real world requires even MORE. We could say, a LOT MORE.

    As Conan Doyle wrote, "When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

    Not even the authoritative voice of CNN can make the impossible possible.

    I hear you.
    I watched, on TV, that day, what was happening and, of course, all that since, but, in decreasing time and effort spent there.
    The problem we, interested laymen have, is that we can see experts explaining, from both sides, things we don’t have education and experience to fully comprehend.And I am decently educated man (or so I say) with considerable military experience. Hell, I even had a related courses (admit, before that event) and even seen some related action (building destruction I mean).
    True, one could argue that experts tend to obfuscate things and have vested interested, but, still.

    So, in this case, yes, the point of contention is HOW?

    It is unlikely (but not impossible and it’s easy to get into “lawyer speech” here) that the WTC7 was brought down the “official” way, but, it is even less unlikely that is was brought down some other way.

    Of course that a state actor could’ve had the building rigged. Very difficult, but possible.
    It is also possible that a combination of regulations, building practices and, yes, even a freak combination of events could’ve created all that.

    You know “freak waves” for example?
    For centuries seamen were saying that and all scientific community was laughing at them. I remember ships being lost in 70′s and 80′s with extraordinary explanations.
    And, then, we had the Draupner wave.
    Suddenly, literally overnight, the seamen of old were vindicated and scientists..experts…well…they can’t get shamed..too smart for that. Too….something else but let’s keep to the topic.

    At the end we, simpletons, go with probabilities.
    Now, I am talking, in this (re the ” 9/11″) only about the WTC7, nothing else.
    So, 70/30, for me, the “official story”.

    Now, topic wise (Hezbollah/Israel).
    IDF, among some other things, is the military (or Israel as a state) which takes the “force protection” really serious. Probably more than anyone else.
    That https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namer is an interesting vehicle.
    Now, it appears interesting that IDF doesn’t have Bradleys (or similar IFVs), for example. Or that U.S and the rest of NATO don’t have vehicles as Namer or Achzarit.
    Anyone here willing to try to explain that?

    Read More
    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    Once again you attempt to change the subject under discussion.

    If you take the time to watch the different available documentaries, read the books and webzine articles on 9/11 you will more clearly identify the rational information from the abundant disinformation and the outright absurd.

    History will likely show that this will have been the defining event of our lifetime. Just as with the JFK murder, you can gain insights simply by noting the rush to judgement before any conceivable investigation was possible, the covering up of evidence, the bypassing of established security protocols, the echoes of distraction from big media, the phoney investigations and the flood of disinformation designed to muddy the waters of what is really not nearly as confusing as you assume.

    Watch various videos of the collapse, you can see bursts from various demolition charges going off during the collapses and disintegrations. See what the first responder firefighters have to say about that day. Once you determine that the buildings were demolished using strategically placed demolition charges, then you can begin to see who did have had access and cover to do such a complex and lengthy operation, hint: It wasn't OBL and his crew of flip-flop wearers.
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  151. @peterAUS
    I hear you.
    I watched, on TV, that day, what was happening and, of course, all that since, but, in decreasing time and effort spent there.
    The problem we, interested laymen have, is that we can see experts explaining, from both sides, things we don't have education and experience to fully comprehend.And I am decently educated man (or so I say) with considerable military experience. Hell, I even had a related courses (admit, before that event) and even seen some related action (building destruction I mean).
    True, one could argue that experts tend to obfuscate things and have vested interested, but, still.

    So, in this case, yes, the point of contention is HOW?

    It is unlikely (but not impossible and it's easy to get into "lawyer speech" here) that the WTC7 was brought down the "official" way, but, it is even less unlikely that is was brought down some other way.

    Of course that a state actor could've had the building rigged. Very difficult, but possible.
    It is also possible that a combination of regulations, building practices and, yes, even a freak combination of events could've created all that.

    You know "freak waves" for example?
    For centuries seamen were saying that and all scientific community was laughing at them. I remember ships being lost in 70's and 80's with extraordinary explanations.
    And, then, we had the Draupner wave.
    Suddenly, literally overnight, the seamen of old were vindicated and scientists..experts...well...they can't get shamed..too smart for that. Too....something else but let's keep to the topic.

    At the end we, simpletons, go with probabilities.
    Now, I am talking, in this (re the " 9/11") only about the WTC7, nothing else.
    So, 70/30, for me, the "official story".

    Now, topic wise (Hezbollah/Israel).
    IDF, among some other things, is the military (or Israel as a state) which takes the "force protection" really serious. Probably more than anyone else.
    That https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namer is an interesting vehicle.
    Now, it appears interesting that IDF doesn't have Bradleys (or similar IFVs), for example. Or that U.S and the rest of NATO don't have vehicles as Namer or Achzarit.
    Anyone here willing to try to explain that?

    Once again you attempt to change the subject under discussion.

    If you take the time to watch the different available documentaries, read the books and webzine articles on 9/11 you will more clearly identify the rational information from the abundant disinformation and the outright absurd.

    History will likely show that this will have been the defining event of our lifetime. Just as with the JFK murder, you can gain insights simply by noting the rush to judgement before any conceivable investigation was possible, the covering up of evidence, the bypassing of established security protocols, the echoes of distraction from big media, the phoney investigations and the flood of disinformation designed to muddy the waters of what is really not nearly as confusing as you assume.

    Watch various videos of the collapse, you can see bursts from various demolition charges going off during the collapses and disintegrations. See what the first responder firefighters have to say about that day. Once you determine that the buildings were demolished using strategically placed demolition charges, then you can begin to see who did have had access and cover to do such a complex and lengthy operation, hint: It wasn’t OBL and his crew of flip-flop wearers.

    Read More
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  152. Erebus says:
    @peterAUS

    Everyone agrees that Hizbullah is now a battle hardened, combat experienced war machine.
     
    Mostly everyone. The same everyone who agrees on anything without much expertise and thinking.

    The minority who doesn't agree have a slightly different take:
    Hizbullah is now an increasingly battle weary armed group. They spend resources, including time, take casualties and gain experience not really beneficial to a future fight with the main enemy.
    They even think that Hezbollah engagement in Syria benefits Israel.

    Hizbullah is now an increasingly battle weary armed group. They spend resources, including time, take casualties and gain experience not really beneficial to a future fight with the main enemy.

    Let’s look at these 1 by 1…
    - HZB rotated their men quite effectively through the “hot zones” in Syria. Maximizing the number of “blooded” fighters without exhausting them (by & large) is generally considered sound military personnel mgmt. Most of their fighters were children in 2006, so the emotional and physical toughening of real “under fire” experience is a great advantage. What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger holds for combat troops.
    - Since 2006, they have accumulated an enormous cache of rockets and missiles, some significant portion of which apparently have the range to reach TelAviv. That alone changes the calculus of any war against them.
    - To be sure, combat means casualties, and HZB has taken their fair share in Syria. Their manpower levels, by all accounts however are well above what they had available in 2006.
    - Most importantly, their fighters and commanders also got experience and formal training in new weaponry and combined arms combat under the auspices of a professional officer corps, namely the Russians. That has to count for something, whatever the next enemy they have to fight may be.

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  153. peterAUS says:

    No name calling ?
    True, usually starts at the second “exchange”, but, who knows, maybe we’ll even be able to manage that till the third.
    Let’s see.

    I’ll go point by point…those “-”.
    -Agree. That is very important and, if managed as you say, very good.
    -Agree. Works both ways though. They go for TelAviv the response becomes harsher. And the Big Brother reaction too (all help imaginable). So, mixed blessing there I guess.
    -Agree.
    -Mixed bag too. Their engagement in Syria is different, some would even say the opposite, from the future engagement against IDF. No need to explain that.

    The thing is, and I can only speculate (don’t pay too much attention to all that to be honest) that the “main effort” is in Syria. So, not in preparing terrain, for example, and units on that very terrain, for the clash with IDF.
    For the force of Hezbollah type and size that could prove not good.

    People on this site love to point that US/NATO haven’t been fighting a “proper” opponent for quite some. It’s all about COIN, not (conventional, of course) against a decent opponent (the only one, actually Russia).
    Russia has, both in Georgia and Ukraine. Proper “real” war, not COIN.

    So same does apply to Hezbollah too.
    They, in essence, fight as a light/shock infantry for a superpower providing air support, intelligence, logistics…blah..blah.
    In the engagement against IDF all that will be totally opposite.

    But that’s all not that important.

    The clash simply hinges on the will of Israelis (and Jewish world community) to get into that or not. The will to “solve the problem” with accepting a certain level of casualties.

    That document and “Greasy Williams” explained that quite well on this site.

    Now, with the latest coming from the White House anything is possible there.
    I can think about several scenarios, neither pleasant. We could see even “all against all” in that part of the world. Total mess and mayhem.
    Hopefully just only there.

    Read More
    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    Your barely coherent comment makes me wonder what you are on. Seriously.
    , @Erebus

    No name calling ?...Let’s see.
     
    I have a weak spot Peter, and it frustrates me when you fail to exploit it to make your point. It's called reason. Anyway, so far, so good.

    -Agree. Works both ways though. They go for TelAviv the response becomes harsher.
     
    This is a bit of an imponderable, at least at this distance. My read is that neither the Israeli elites nor Schlomo-6-pack are all gung-ho for war on Lebanon. It is just as likely, in my mind, that missiles landing in Schlomo's bedroom may elicit a reaction the war mongers didn't bargain for.

    And the Big Brother reaction too (all help imaginable). So, mixed blessing there I guess.
     
    This is another imponderable. "War for Israel" has a much higher profile, and a much less appealing ring to it than 15 years ago.
    Also, as the US would be well aware, HZB has some big brothers too, and that the US' entry into the conflict would have to be overt and decisive. That means war on Iran, and one wonders if they have the stomach for that. Iran has the ability to do some serious damage to American M.E. assets, especially if the Russians have been adding to their missile arsenal surreptitiously, so the risks may be very high indeed.
    Losing the 5th Fleet for the sake of supporting Israel's unprovoked attack on Lebanon isn't something I'd like to have to explain to the American public. The Deplorables may not take that lying down.
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  154. @peterAUS
    No name calling ?
    True, usually starts at the second "exchange", but, who knows, maybe we'll even be able to manage that till the third.
    Let's see.

    I'll go point by point...those "-".
    -Agree. That is very important and, if managed as you say, very good.
    -Agree. Works both ways though. They go for TelAviv the response becomes harsher. And the Big Brother reaction too (all help imaginable). So, mixed blessing there I guess.
    -Agree.
    -Mixed bag too. Their engagement in Syria is different, some would even say the opposite, from the future engagement against IDF. No need to explain that.

    The thing is, and I can only speculate (don't pay too much attention to all that to be honest) that the "main effort" is in Syria. So, not in preparing terrain, for example, and units on that very terrain, for the clash with IDF.
    For the force of Hezbollah type and size that could prove not good.

    People on this site love to point that US/NATO haven't been fighting a "proper" opponent for quite some. It's all about COIN, not (conventional, of course) against a decent opponent (the only one, actually Russia).
    Russia has, both in Georgia and Ukraine. Proper "real" war, not COIN.

    So same does apply to Hezbollah too.
    They, in essence, fight as a light/shock infantry for a superpower providing air support, intelligence, logistics...blah..blah.
    In the engagement against IDF all that will be totally opposite.

    But that's all not that important.

    The clash simply hinges on the will of Israelis (and Jewish world community) to get into that or not. The will to "solve the problem" with accepting a certain level of casualties.

    That document and "Greasy Williams" explained that quite well on this site.

    Now, with the latest coming from the White House anything is possible there.
    I can think about several scenarios, neither pleasant. We could see even "all against all" in that part of the world. Total mess and mayhem.
    Hopefully just only there.

    Your barely coherent comment makes me wonder what you are on. Seriously.

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  155. Erebus says:
    @peterAUS
    No name calling ?
    True, usually starts at the second "exchange", but, who knows, maybe we'll even be able to manage that till the third.
    Let's see.

    I'll go point by point...those "-".
    -Agree. That is very important and, if managed as you say, very good.
    -Agree. Works both ways though. They go for TelAviv the response becomes harsher. And the Big Brother reaction too (all help imaginable). So, mixed blessing there I guess.
    -Agree.
    -Mixed bag too. Their engagement in Syria is different, some would even say the opposite, from the future engagement against IDF. No need to explain that.

    The thing is, and I can only speculate (don't pay too much attention to all that to be honest) that the "main effort" is in Syria. So, not in preparing terrain, for example, and units on that very terrain, for the clash with IDF.
    For the force of Hezbollah type and size that could prove not good.

    People on this site love to point that US/NATO haven't been fighting a "proper" opponent for quite some. It's all about COIN, not (conventional, of course) against a decent opponent (the only one, actually Russia).
    Russia has, both in Georgia and Ukraine. Proper "real" war, not COIN.

    So same does apply to Hezbollah too.
    They, in essence, fight as a light/shock infantry for a superpower providing air support, intelligence, logistics...blah..blah.
    In the engagement against IDF all that will be totally opposite.

    But that's all not that important.

    The clash simply hinges on the will of Israelis (and Jewish world community) to get into that or not. The will to "solve the problem" with accepting a certain level of casualties.

    That document and "Greasy Williams" explained that quite well on this site.

    Now, with the latest coming from the White House anything is possible there.
    I can think about several scenarios, neither pleasant. We could see even "all against all" in that part of the world. Total mess and mayhem.
    Hopefully just only there.

    No name calling ?…Let’s see.

    I have a weak spot Peter, and it frustrates me when you fail to exploit it to make your point. It’s called reason. Anyway, so far, so good.

    -Agree. Works both ways though. They go for TelAviv the response becomes harsher.

    This is a bit of an imponderable, at least at this distance. My read is that neither the Israeli elites nor Schlomo-6-pack are all gung-ho for war on Lebanon. It is just as likely, in my mind, that missiles landing in Schlomo’s bedroom may elicit a reaction the war mongers didn’t bargain for.

    And the Big Brother reaction too (all help imaginable). So, mixed blessing there I guess.

    This is another imponderable. “War for Israel” has a much higher profile, and a much less appealing ring to it than 15 years ago.
    Also, as the US would be well aware, HZB has some big brothers too, and that the US’ entry into the conflict would have to be overt and decisive. That means war on Iran, and one wonders if they have the stomach for that. Iran has the ability to do some serious damage to American M.E. assets, especially if the Russians have been adding to their missile arsenal surreptitiously, so the risks may be very high indeed.
    Losing the 5th Fleet for the sake of supporting Israel’s unprovoked attack on Lebanon isn’t something I’d like to have to explain to the American public. The Deplorables may not take that lying down.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Greasy William

    It is just as likely, in my mind, that missiles landing in Schlomo’s bedroom may elicit a reaction the war mongers didn’t bargain for.
     
    Man you're delusional. And you know absolutely nothing about Israeli politics.


    1. The Israeli people WANT WAR with Lebanon. They don't care about how badly Hezbollah will bomb them in return. It is the IDF and the Government that do not want war.

    2. IDF plans for the next war are pretty simple: destroy every power and water plant in Lebanon (this will essentially end Lebanon as a functional country for about a decade), use terror bombing/shelling to ethnically cleanse the Lebanese people from the first 10 to 20 km of S Lebanon, send the IDF 40 to 60 km into Lebanon and finally go directly into Hezbollah's rat holes to flush Hezbollah out. Then permanently occupy a 10 to 20 km belt in Southern Lebanon. But this time, all the civilians of S Lebanon will have been killed or driven out, so Hezbollah will not be able to wage a guerrilla war against the IDF like they did in the 80s and 90s.

    3. This will cause horrific casualties for Israel. They know that and they don't care. They are not just willing to pay the price, they are eager to. You of course don't know this because you get your news for The Saker, Southfront and Sputnik.

    4. I already know your response because I have been hearing it for the last 12 years: "Nuh uh! Hezbollah is invincible and the IDF could never do that!". Yeah I know. Just like the IDF couldn't destroy the Syrian reactor or force Hamas to stop firing rockets. Just a few hours ago, Israel carried out the largest bombing attack it ever has on Syria, even though you promised only a few weeks ago that Israel would never be able to bomb Syria again. Basically your side saying that the IDF can't do something is a guarantee that the IDF will do just that.

    5. My advice? Enjoy the time you have left with your Lebanese. Their future isn't looking bright. Maybe you can put up a Lebanese refugee at your house after the next war? There is going to be millions of them.
    , @peterAUS

    I have a weak spot Peter, and it frustrates me when you fail to exploit it to make your point. It’s called reason. Anyway, so far, so good.
     
    Hehe...getting there. The second.

    ..US’ entry into the conflict would have to be overt and decisive.
     
    Don't think so. No need.

    Losing the 5th Fleet...
     
    Iranians......sinking......the.........5th ..........Fleet.
    That does it.

    Looking forward for the third.
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  156. @Erebus

    No name calling ?...Let’s see.
     
    I have a weak spot Peter, and it frustrates me when you fail to exploit it to make your point. It's called reason. Anyway, so far, so good.

    -Agree. Works both ways though. They go for TelAviv the response becomes harsher.
     
    This is a bit of an imponderable, at least at this distance. My read is that neither the Israeli elites nor Schlomo-6-pack are all gung-ho for war on Lebanon. It is just as likely, in my mind, that missiles landing in Schlomo's bedroom may elicit a reaction the war mongers didn't bargain for.

    And the Big Brother reaction too (all help imaginable). So, mixed blessing there I guess.
     
    This is another imponderable. "War for Israel" has a much higher profile, and a much less appealing ring to it than 15 years ago.
    Also, as the US would be well aware, HZB has some big brothers too, and that the US' entry into the conflict would have to be overt and decisive. That means war on Iran, and one wonders if they have the stomach for that. Iran has the ability to do some serious damage to American M.E. assets, especially if the Russians have been adding to their missile arsenal surreptitiously, so the risks may be very high indeed.
    Losing the 5th Fleet for the sake of supporting Israel's unprovoked attack on Lebanon isn't something I'd like to have to explain to the American public. The Deplorables may not take that lying down.

    It is just as likely, in my mind, that missiles landing in Schlomo’s bedroom may elicit a reaction the war mongers didn’t bargain for.

    Man you’re delusional. And you know absolutely nothing about Israeli politics.

    1. The Israeli people WANT WAR with Lebanon. They don’t care about how badly Hezbollah will bomb them in return. It is the IDF and the Government that do not want war.

    2. IDF plans for the next war are pretty simple: destroy every power and water plant in Lebanon (this will essentially end Lebanon as a functional country for about a decade), use terror bombing/shelling to ethnically cleanse the Lebanese people from the first 10 to 20 km of S Lebanon, send the IDF 40 to 60 km into Lebanon and finally go directly into Hezbollah’s rat holes to flush Hezbollah out. Then permanently occupy a 10 to 20 km belt in Southern Lebanon. But this time, all the civilians of S Lebanon will have been killed or driven out, so Hezbollah will not be able to wage a guerrilla war against the IDF like they did in the 80s and 90s.

    3. This will cause horrific casualties for Israel. They know that and they don’t care. They are not just willing to pay the price, they are eager to. You of course don’t know this because you get your news for The Saker, Southfront and Sputnik.

    4. I already know your response because I have been hearing it for the last 12 years: “Nuh uh! Hezbollah is invincible and the IDF could never do that!”. Yeah I know. Just like the IDF couldn’t destroy the Syrian reactor or force Hamas to stop firing rockets. Just a few hours ago, Israel carried out the largest bombing attack it ever has on Syria, even though you promised only a few weeks ago that Israel would never be able to bomb Syria again. Basically your side saying that the IDF can’t do something is a guarantee that the IDF will do just that.

    5. My advice? Enjoy the time you have left with your Lebanese. Their future isn’t looking bright. Maybe you can put up a Lebanese refugee at your house after the next war? There is going to be millions of them.

    Read More
    • LOL: L.K
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    Good post.
    Informative and from the "inside" of one of the parties there.

    A couple of points, though.

    The Israeli people WANT WAR with Lebanon.
     
    with

    It is the IDF and the Government that do not want war.
     
    Taking into account a particular relationships between people, Government and IDF in Israel that feels a bit awkward.
    Those three entities, in Israel, are much closer to each other than in most countries.

    Hezbollah will not be able to wage a guerrilla war against the IDF like they did in the 80s and 90s.
     
    The last time Hezbollah didn't wage guerrilla war.
    Now, the interesting speculation would be: would they fight that defensive battle if their own population base is ethnically cleansed from the region?

    As for this:

    Just a few hours ago, Israel carried out the largest bombing attack it ever has on Syria, even though you promised only a few weeks ago that Israel would never be able to bomb Syria again. Basically your side saying that the IDF can’t do something is a guarantee that the IDF will do just that.
     
    fear not.
    The resident "teams" will now "educate" you about multidimensional chess play and long term geopolitical planning.
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  157. peterAUS says:
    @Erebus

    No name calling ?...Let’s see.
     
    I have a weak spot Peter, and it frustrates me when you fail to exploit it to make your point. It's called reason. Anyway, so far, so good.

    -Agree. Works both ways though. They go for TelAviv the response becomes harsher.
     
    This is a bit of an imponderable, at least at this distance. My read is that neither the Israeli elites nor Schlomo-6-pack are all gung-ho for war on Lebanon. It is just as likely, in my mind, that missiles landing in Schlomo's bedroom may elicit a reaction the war mongers didn't bargain for.

    And the Big Brother reaction too (all help imaginable). So, mixed blessing there I guess.
     
    This is another imponderable. "War for Israel" has a much higher profile, and a much less appealing ring to it than 15 years ago.
    Also, as the US would be well aware, HZB has some big brothers too, and that the US' entry into the conflict would have to be overt and decisive. That means war on Iran, and one wonders if they have the stomach for that. Iran has the ability to do some serious damage to American M.E. assets, especially if the Russians have been adding to their missile arsenal surreptitiously, so the risks may be very high indeed.
    Losing the 5th Fleet for the sake of supporting Israel's unprovoked attack on Lebanon isn't something I'd like to have to explain to the American public. The Deplorables may not take that lying down.

    I have a weak spot Peter, and it frustrates me when you fail to exploit it to make your point. It’s called reason. Anyway, so far, so good.

    Hehe…getting there. The second.

    ..US’ entry into the conflict would have to be overt and decisive.

    Don’t think so. No need.

    Losing the 5th Fleet…

    Iranians……sinking……the………5th ……….Fleet.
    That does it.

    Looking forward for the third.

    Read More
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  158. peterAUS says:
    @Greasy William

    It is just as likely, in my mind, that missiles landing in Schlomo’s bedroom may elicit a reaction the war mongers didn’t bargain for.
     
    Man you're delusional. And you know absolutely nothing about Israeli politics.


    1. The Israeli people WANT WAR with Lebanon. They don't care about how badly Hezbollah will bomb them in return. It is the IDF and the Government that do not want war.

    2. IDF plans for the next war are pretty simple: destroy every power and water plant in Lebanon (this will essentially end Lebanon as a functional country for about a decade), use terror bombing/shelling to ethnically cleanse the Lebanese people from the first 10 to 20 km of S Lebanon, send the IDF 40 to 60 km into Lebanon and finally go directly into Hezbollah's rat holes to flush Hezbollah out. Then permanently occupy a 10 to 20 km belt in Southern Lebanon. But this time, all the civilians of S Lebanon will have been killed or driven out, so Hezbollah will not be able to wage a guerrilla war against the IDF like they did in the 80s and 90s.

    3. This will cause horrific casualties for Israel. They know that and they don't care. They are not just willing to pay the price, they are eager to. You of course don't know this because you get your news for The Saker, Southfront and Sputnik.

    4. I already know your response because I have been hearing it for the last 12 years: "Nuh uh! Hezbollah is invincible and the IDF could never do that!". Yeah I know. Just like the IDF couldn't destroy the Syrian reactor or force Hamas to stop firing rockets. Just a few hours ago, Israel carried out the largest bombing attack it ever has on Syria, even though you promised only a few weeks ago that Israel would never be able to bomb Syria again. Basically your side saying that the IDF can't do something is a guarantee that the IDF will do just that.

    5. My advice? Enjoy the time you have left with your Lebanese. Their future isn't looking bright. Maybe you can put up a Lebanese refugee at your house after the next war? There is going to be millions of them.

    Good post.
    Informative and from the “inside” of one of the parties there.

    A couple of points, though.

    The Israeli people WANT WAR with Lebanon.

    with

    It is the IDF and the Government that do not want war.

    Taking into account a particular relationships between people, Government and IDF in Israel that feels a bit awkward.
    Those three entities, in Israel, are much closer to each other than in most countries.

    Hezbollah will not be able to wage a guerrilla war against the IDF like they did in the 80s and 90s.

    The last time Hezbollah didn’t wage guerrilla war.
    Now, the interesting speculation would be: would they fight that defensive battle if their own population base is ethnically cleansed from the region?

    As for this:

    Just a few hours ago, Israel carried out the largest bombing attack it ever has on Syria, even though you promised only a few weeks ago that Israel would never be able to bomb Syria again. Basically your side saying that the IDF can’t do something is a guarantee that the IDF will do just that.

    fear not.
    The resident “teams” will now “educate” you about multidimensional chess play and long term geopolitical planning.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Erebus

    The resident “teams” will now “educate” you about multidimensional chess play and long term geopolitical planning.
     
    Ever heard of the Dunning-Kruger Effect? No? Here it is, explained... https://psmag.com/social-justice/confident-idiots-92793. In a nutshell, the effect is is of supreme confidence based on nothing more than being unaware of the existence of skills beyond your understanding.

    I can willingly accede Greasy's point about the Israeli public's lust for war. Though it flies in the face of my limited and anecdotal experience, I know it's limited and can therefore be gainsaid by someone with better/more data on the mood of the Israeli public (though I haven't seen Greasy present any). I'm aware of the fact that there's real political data & expertise about the mood of the Israeli public that I don't have, and so I wrote speculatively.

    OTOH, you are ever making light of "multidimensional chess play" and "long term geopolitical planning". Greasy echoed it. Is it precisely because you are not aware of being utterly unaware of your short-comings in either field? Do they seem nonexistent simply because you aren't aware of them and/or the modes of thinking that they entail?
    Are you aware that States employ multidimensional chess players and long term geopolitical thinkers to think in precisely those terms? That they, if they're actually led by responsible people not suffering from the Dunning-Kruger Effect, take the thoughts of such into consideration in deciding on strategies and tactics?

    Your writings suggest it is so. Perhaps you'd consider remedying that before exposing yourself in public. It is, or should be, embarrassing.
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  159. Now, the interesting speculation would be: would they fight that defensive battle if their own population base is ethnically cleansed from the region?

    Yes they would. Think WWII Japanese.

    Taking into account a particular relationships between people, Government and IDF in Israel that feels a bit awkward.
    Those three entities, in Israel, are much closer to each other than in most countries.

    Not really. The IDF, along with the entire Israeli deep state, is dominated by the Left the same way the Turkish military and bureaucracy was dominated by the secular before Erdogan purged them.

    It’s true that Israeli’s worship the IDF, but they more worship it as an institution as opposed to worshiping the IDF brass. The IDF brass’s credibility declines with each humiliating failure.

    The government is to the left of the public too, but way to the right of the IDF. It is understood in Israel, for example, that if Netanyahu told the IDF to bomb Iran, the IDF would refuse to carry out the order. Before the Syrian civil war broke out, the IDF was putting huge pressure on Bibi to give the Golan back to Assad.

    It kinda makes sense that the government would be to the left of the public. It is the government that is going to have to deal with the international backlash in the next war and is going to be responsible for rebuilding the northern part of the country.

    fear not.
    The resident “teams” will now “educate” you about multidimensional chess play and long term geopolitical planning.

    Not this time I don’t think. On social media they seem genuinely mystified that Putin hasn’t nuked Israel in retaliation. This is a very tough one for them to explain.

    Also, as delusional as they are even they know how bad a look it is to go from “Israeli planes can’t even operate in their own airspace! The IAF has been defeated!” to “Israeli aircraft can bomb any part of Syria whenever they want without any losses or retaliation.”

    They are acting like people from those apocalyptic cults do after the world hasn’t ended at the predicted time.

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    Good post.

    This I found informative, probably even eye opening:

    The IDF, along with the entire Israeli deep state, is dominated by the Left....
    ....worship it as an institution as opposed to worshiping the IDF brass.
    It is understood in Israel, for example, that if Netanyahu told the IDF to bomb Iran, the IDF would refuse to carry out the order. Before the Syrian civil war broke out, the IDF was putting huge pressure on Bibi to give the Golan back to Assad.
     
    Good one:

    They are acting like people from those apocalyptic cults do after the world hasn’t ended at the predicted time.
     
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  160. peterAUS says:
    @Greasy William

    Now, the interesting speculation would be: would they fight that defensive battle if their own population base is ethnically cleansed from the region?
     
    Yes they would. Think WWII Japanese.

    Taking into account a particular relationships between people, Government and IDF in Israel that feels a bit awkward.
    Those three entities, in Israel, are much closer to each other than in most countries.
     
    Not really. The IDF, along with the entire Israeli deep state, is dominated by the Left the same way the Turkish military and bureaucracy was dominated by the secular before Erdogan purged them.

    It's true that Israeli's worship the IDF, but they more worship it as an institution as opposed to worshiping the IDF brass. The IDF brass's credibility declines with each humiliating failure.

    The government is to the left of the public too, but way to the right of the IDF. It is understood in Israel, for example, that if Netanyahu told the IDF to bomb Iran, the IDF would refuse to carry out the order. Before the Syrian civil war broke out, the IDF was putting huge pressure on Bibi to give the Golan back to Assad.

    It kinda makes sense that the government would be to the left of the public. It is the government that is going to have to deal with the international backlash in the next war and is going to be responsible for rebuilding the northern part of the country.

    fear not.
    The resident “teams” will now “educate” you about multidimensional chess play and long term geopolitical planning.
     
    Not this time I don't think. On social media they seem genuinely mystified that Putin hasn't nuked Israel in retaliation. This is a very tough one for them to explain.

    Also, as delusional as they are even they know how bad a look it is to go from "Israeli planes can't even operate in their own airspace! The IAF has been defeated!" to "Israeli aircraft can bomb any part of Syria whenever they want without any losses or retaliation."

    They are acting like people from those apocalyptic cults do after the world hasn't ended at the predicted time.

    Good post.

    This I found informative, probably even eye opening:

    The IDF, along with the entire Israeli deep state, is dominated by the Left….
    ….worship it as an institution as opposed to worshiping the IDF brass.
    It is understood in Israel, for example, that if Netanyahu told the IDF to bomb Iran, the IDF would refuse to carry out the order. Before the Syrian civil war broke out, the IDF was putting huge pressure on Bibi to give the Golan back to Assad.

    Good one:

    They are acting like people from those apocalyptic cults do after the world hasn’t ended at the predicted time.

    Read More
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  161. Erebus says:
    @peterAUS
    Good post.
    Informative and from the "inside" of one of the parties there.

    A couple of points, though.

    The Israeli people WANT WAR with Lebanon.
     
    with

    It is the IDF and the Government that do not want war.
     
    Taking into account a particular relationships between people, Government and IDF in Israel that feels a bit awkward.
    Those three entities, in Israel, are much closer to each other than in most countries.

    Hezbollah will not be able to wage a guerrilla war against the IDF like they did in the 80s and 90s.
     
    The last time Hezbollah didn't wage guerrilla war.
    Now, the interesting speculation would be: would they fight that defensive battle if their own population base is ethnically cleansed from the region?

    As for this:

    Just a few hours ago, Israel carried out the largest bombing attack it ever has on Syria, even though you promised only a few weeks ago that Israel would never be able to bomb Syria again. Basically your side saying that the IDF can’t do something is a guarantee that the IDF will do just that.
     
    fear not.
    The resident "teams" will now "educate" you about multidimensional chess play and long term geopolitical planning.

    The resident “teams” will now “educate” you about multidimensional chess play and long term geopolitical planning.

    Ever heard of the Dunning-Kruger Effect? No? Here it is, explained… https://psmag.com/social-justice/confident-idiots-92793. In a nutshell, the effect is is of supreme confidence based on nothing more than being unaware of the existence of skills beyond your understanding.

    I can willingly accede Greasy’s point about the Israeli public’s lust for war. Though it flies in the face of my limited and anecdotal experience, I know it’s limited and can therefore be gainsaid by someone with better/more data on the mood of the Israeli public (though I haven’t seen Greasy present any). I’m aware of the fact that there’s real political data & expertise about the mood of the Israeli public that I don’t have, and so I wrote speculatively.

    OTOH, you are ever making light of “multidimensional chess play” and “long term geopolitical planning”. Greasy echoed it. Is it precisely because you are not aware of being utterly unaware of your short-comings in either field? Do they seem nonexistent simply because you aren’t aware of them and/or the modes of thinking that they entail?
    Are you aware that States employ multidimensional chess players and long term geopolitical thinkers to think in precisely those terms? That they, if they’re actually led by responsible people not suffering from the Dunning-Kruger Effect, take the thoughts of such into consideration in deciding on strategies and tactics?

    Your writings suggest it is so. Perhaps you’d consider remedying that before exposing yourself in public. It is, or should be, embarrassing.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Very modest of you not to call it the Dunning-Kruger-Erebus effect since you have demonstrated it so well despite your unassuming efforts.
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  162. anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mulegino1
    Refuting your meretricious shilling for the establishment is pretty effortless.

    The ballistics argument is entirely valid. Once any flying object, whether it is an arrow, a rock, a bullet or an airliner is used as a weapon, then ballistics enter the equation. A commercial Boeing 767 would make a very poor armor piercing bullet. And structural steel can definitely be considered armor. The soft and hollow carbon nose cone of a 767 can be severely damaged by colliding with a bird in flight at cruising speed. It would not be very adept at penetrating the structural steel perimeter columns, spandrels and concrete pans of WTC 2, now would it? It does not matter if it is "solid stuff". The perimeter columns and concrete of the WTC are much more solid and rigid than the hollow and thin skinned fuselage of a 767. Compare a 767 to an armor piercing round which can indeed pierce 1/2" (1/4"+1/4")- a hollow and light ductile aluminium cylinder with quite delicate wings whose tips are so delicate they cannot bear any more load than the running lights, to the hardened alloy tip, tungsten metal jacket and solid steel core of an armor piercing round. Invoking "solid stuff" is a rather nebulous evasion.

    Also, even NIST acknowledges that WTC 7 fell at free fall acceleration. This is stunning. Office fires and flying debris are not capable of removing all underlying support of a steel and concrete skyscraper, which is what "free fall" entails. Besides, only a fool can look at the implosion of WTC 7 and claim that it is not controlled demolition.

    As for the molecular dissociation of most of the steel and concrete, that simply means that the compounds were disintegrated, as one of the signature elements of the dust- particles of free iron- demonstrate conclusively. That was the dust cloud that blanketed lower Manhattan- the disintegrated components of the WTC. No hydrocarbon based office fire or gravity collapse on earth can do this.

    I have been laid up and amusing myself watching TV documentaries including three National Geographic “Air Crash Investigations”. One of them I already knew a lot about and I found the National Geographic doco very good and accurate. Not that that mattered for present pirposes because what gave the lie to your nonsense about ballistics and armour piercing bullets was just the pictures of where large parts of the fuselage had plunged into the ground at 500 knots. The one at Lockerbie was huge – and specifically, deep, and the one 65km west of New Delhi in 1996 had the cockpit and forward part of the fuselage of a 747 so deeply embedded in the earth, despite it having become detached and fallen under gravity, that it took days if not weeks to get to the black boxes.

    Read More
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  163. Anonymous[178] • Disclaimer says:
    @Erebus

    The resident “teams” will now “educate” you about multidimensional chess play and long term geopolitical planning.
     
    Ever heard of the Dunning-Kruger Effect? No? Here it is, explained... https://psmag.com/social-justice/confident-idiots-92793. In a nutshell, the effect is is of supreme confidence based on nothing more than being unaware of the existence of skills beyond your understanding.

    I can willingly accede Greasy's point about the Israeli public's lust for war. Though it flies in the face of my limited and anecdotal experience, I know it's limited and can therefore be gainsaid by someone with better/more data on the mood of the Israeli public (though I haven't seen Greasy present any). I'm aware of the fact that there's real political data & expertise about the mood of the Israeli public that I don't have, and so I wrote speculatively.

    OTOH, you are ever making light of "multidimensional chess play" and "long term geopolitical planning". Greasy echoed it. Is it precisely because you are not aware of being utterly unaware of your short-comings in either field? Do they seem nonexistent simply because you aren't aware of them and/or the modes of thinking that they entail?
    Are you aware that States employ multidimensional chess players and long term geopolitical thinkers to think in precisely those terms? That they, if they're actually led by responsible people not suffering from the Dunning-Kruger Effect, take the thoughts of such into consideration in deciding on strategies and tactics?

    Your writings suggest it is so. Perhaps you'd consider remedying that before exposing yourself in public. It is, or should be, embarrassing.

    Very modest of you not to call it the Dunning-Kruger-Erebus effect since you have demonstrated it so well despite your unassuming efforts.

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