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The German Soldiers of World War II
Why They Were the Best, and Why They Still Lost
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Soldiers like these fought with unmatched ability, daring and resourcefulness
Soldiers like these fought with unmatched ability, daring and resourcefulness

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The German soldiers of World War II have often been portrayed, both during the war and in the decades since, as simple-minded, unimaginative and brutish. Hollywood movies and popular U.S. television shows have for years contrasted confident, able and “cool” American GIs with slow-witted, cynical and cruel Germans.

“Propaganda is an inescapable ingredient of modern conflict,” British journalist and historian Max Hastings has noted. “In the Second World War, it was considered essential for the struggle to defeat the German army that the peoples of the Grand [Allied] Alliance should be convinced of the qualitative superiority of their fighting men to those of the enemy. One [American] dogface or one [British] tommy was worth three wooden-headed krauts. Hitler’s robots could never match the imagination and initiative of Allied soldiers on the battlefield …” Major wartime American motion pictures portrayed German soldiers as dull-witted and simplistic. In the decades since the war, Hastings notes, “a spirit of military narcissism, nourished by such films as ‘The Longest Day,’ ‘A Bridge Too Far’ and ‘The Battle of the Bulge,’ has perpetuated mythical images of the Allied and German armies.”[1]Max Hastings, “Their Wehrmacht Was Better Than Our Army,” The Washington Post, May 5, 1985 ( https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1985...382dbd ). In the popular weekly American television show “Combat!” (1962 to 1967), a small unit of US soldiers deployed in France in 1944 routinely and easily killed larger groups of unimaginative German troops. In every single episode of the popular US television sitcom “Hogan’s Heroes” (1965-1971), World War II Germans, and especially German military personnel, were portrayed as timid, easily fooled and cowardly, while the Allied soldiers, especially Americans, were always smart, resourceful and creative.

In accord with the prevailing propaganda image of the enemy, Britain’s wartime premier scornfully disparaged German soldiers and officers. In a 1941 radio address Winston Churchill spoke of “the Nazi war machine, with its clanking, heel-clicking, dandified Prussian officers … [and] the dull, drilled, docile, brutish masses of the Hun soldiery plodding on like a swarm of crawling locusts.”[2]Churchill radio address of June 22, 1941. Quoted in: Winston Churchill, The Second World War, volume 3/ “The Grand Alliance” (Boston: Houghton Mifflin, 1950), p. 371.

Like so much else that the public has been told about the Second World War, this demeaning image bore little relation to reality. As specialists of military history who have looked into the matter agree, the men of Germany’s armed forces — the Wehrmacht — performed with unmatched ability and resourcefulness throughout the nearly six years of conflict.

Trevor N. Dupuy
Trevor N. Dupuy

Trevor N. Dupuy, a noted American military analyst, US Army Colonel, and author of numerous books and articles, studied the comparative performance of the soldiers of World War II. On average, he concluded, 100 German soldiers were the equivalent of 120 American, British or French soldiers, or 200 Soviet soldiers. “On a man for man basis,” Dupuy wrote, “German ground soldiers consistently inflicted casualties at about a 50 percent higher rate than they incurred from the opposing British and American troops under all circumstances [emphasis in original]. This was true when they were attacking and when they were defending, when they had a local numerical superiority and when, as was usually the case, they were outnumbered, when they had air superiority and when they did not, when they won and when they lost.”[3]This assessment of Trevor N. Dupuy first appeared in his book A Genius for War: The German Army and the General Staff, 1807-1945 (1977), pp. 253-254. An updated summary of his work on the subject is in: Trevor N. Dupuy, David L. Bongard and R. C. Anderson, Jr., Hitler’s Last Gamble (1994), Appendix H (pages 498-501). This quotation of Dupuy is given in: Max Hastings, Overlord: D-Day and the Battle for Normandy (New York: 1984), pp. 184, 326 (n. 30); John Mosier, Deathride: Hitler vs. Stalin, 1941- 1945 (Simon & Schuster, 2010), pp. 443-444 (note 48);

Other respected military historians, such as Martin van Creveld and John Keegan, have made comparable assessments. Max Boot draws a similar conclusion in his detailed book, War Made New. “Man for man,” writes this influential author and military historian, “the Wehrmacht was probably the most formidable fighting force in the world until at least 1943, if not later. German soldiers were even known for showing more initiative than the soldiers of democratic France, Britain, and the United States.[4]Max Boot, War Made New (New York: 2006), p. 462. See also pp. 238, 553.

Another scholar who has written about this is Ben H. Shepherd, an author of several books who teaches history at Glasgow Caledonian University in Scotland. In a recent detailed work, Hitler’s Soldiers: The German Army in the Third Reich, he dismantles the image of “zombie-like obedience popularly ascribed to the German military.” In fact, the Wehrmacht “stressed qualities such as flexibility, daring and independent thinking,” and “Nazi ideology placed great importance upon qualities such as courage, endurance, resourcefulness and strength of character, as well as upon comradeship.” He also takes note of “the stress that the German army placed on superior organization. At all levels, the German army was more effectively organized than all the opposing armies it faced …”[5]Ben H. Shepherd, Hitler’s Soldiers: The German Army in the Third Reich (Yale University Press, 2016), pp. 524, 87, 396, 525.

Looking at the 1940 campaign in France, Shepherd writes: “… It was the Germans’ own strength that enabled them to triumph so spectacularly. Among other things, they profited from an imaginative and daring operational plan. But if one single, overall reason for the German army’s triumph in the west can be pinpointed, it is that its doctrinal approach to tactics and operations far outclassed that of its opponents. At all levels, it possessed qualities of daring and adaptability, and a capacity to react to the rapidly changing battlefield situation … The qualities of the German soldier, and the ability of commanders at all levels to think and act independently and effectively, were indeed key to German victory …”[6]Ben H. Shepherd, Hitler’s Soldiers (2016), pp. 87, xi.

Even after the tide of war had turned, he writes, German troops fought well. “The army sustained its initial success thanks to high levels of training, cohesion and morale among its troops, and thanks also to excellent coordination with the Luftwaffe [air force] … Much has been made of the German soldier’s qualitative superiority in the [June-July 1944] Normandy campaign, and there is indeed much to be said in this. One especially exhaustive study of the [German] Westheer in Normandy concludes that, all other things being equal, a hundred Germans soldiers would have made an even fight against 150 Allied soldiers.”[7]Ben H. Shepherd, Hitler’s Soldiers (2016), pp. 87, 437.

“As a result of all this,” says Shepherd, “German army units exhibited great staying power in defense [that is, especially during the final year of the war]. They also exhibited great resourcefulness and flexibility … From 1943 onwards, the German army executed a fighting retreat of unparalleled tenacity, against an increasingly formidable Red Army in the east, and a Western Allied coalition powered increasingly by the economic and military might of the United Sates.”[8]Ben H. Shepherd, Hitler’s Soldiers (2016), pp. 533, xiii.

Max Hastings, a respected and widely read British historian, is the author of more than a dozen books, including several about World War II. These include Bomber Command and Armageddon, and a masterful overview, Inferno: The World at War, 1939-1945. In Overlord, a history of the 1944 Allied invasion of northern France, and the tough campaign to take control of Normandy, he writes:[9]Max Hastings, Overlord: D-Day and the Battle for Normandy (New York: 1984), p. 24, 315-316.

“The Allies in Normandy faced the finest fighting army of the war, one of the greatest that the world has ever seen … The quality of the Germans’ weapons – above all tanks – was of immense importance. Their tactics were masterly … Their junior leadership was much superior to that of the Americans, perhaps also to that of the British … Throughout the Second World War, wherever British or American troops met the Germans in anything like equal strength, the Germans prevailed. They possessed an historic reputation as formidable soldiers. Under Hitler their army attained its zenith.”

Max Hastings
Max Hastings

Moreover, Hastings points out, the German military fought with equipment and weapons that were usually better than those of their adversaries. “Weapon for weapon and tank for tank, even in 1944, its equipment decisively outclassed that of the Allies in every category save artillery and transport,” he writes. Even during the war’s final years, “the Allied leaders invited their ground troops to fight the Wehrmacht with equipment inferior in every category save artillery and transport. German machine-guns, mortars, machine-pistols, antitank weapons and armored personnel carriers were all superior to those of Britain and America. Above all, Germany possessed better tanks.”[10]M. Hastings, Overlord (1984), p. 24; M. Hastings, “Their Wehrmacht Was Better Than Our Army,” The Washington Post, May 5, 1985.

Throughout the war, the German soldiers’ performance remained unequaled. “… The Americans, like the British, never matched the extraordinary professionalism of the German soldier,” Hastings writes. “Few Allied soldiers saw themselves for a moment as other than civilians temporarily in uniform, while their German counterparts possessed an uncanny ability to transform themselves from butchers and bank clerks into natural tacticians. One of the more absurd propaganda clichés of the war was the image of the Nazi soldier as an inflexible squarehead. In reality, the German soldier almost invariably showed far greater flexibility on the battlefield than his Allied counterpart … The inescapable truth is that Hitler’s Wehrmacht was the outstanding fighting force of World War II, one of the greatest in history.”[11]M. Hastings, “Their Wehrmacht Was Better Than Our Army,” The Washington Post, May 5, 1985.

Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill

After the war, Winston Churchill commented on the conflict more truthfully then he had while it still raged. In his memoirs, he compared the record of British and German forces in the Norway campaign of April-June 1940 — the first time during World War II that soldiers of those two nations faced each other in combat. “The superiority of the Germans in design, management and energy were plain,” Churchill wrote. “At Narvik a mixed and improvised German force barely six thousand strong held at bay for six weeks some twenty thousand Allied troops, and, though driven out of the town, lived to see them depart … The Germans traversed in seven days the road from Namsos to Mosjoen which the British and French had declared impassable … We, who had the command of the sea and could pounce anywhere on an undefended coast, were out-paced by the enemy moving by land across very large distances in the face of every obstacle. In this Norwegian encounter, some of our finest troops, the Scots and Irish Guards, were baffled by the vigour, enterprise and training of Hitler’s young men.”[12]Winston Churchill, The Second World War, volume 1/“The Gathering Storm” (Boston: 1948), pp. 582-583.

High-ranking British military figures were similarly impressed with the skill, tenacity and daring of their adversaries. “Unfortunately we are fighting the best soldiers in the world – what men!,” exclaimed Lt. Gen. Sir Harold Alexander, commander of the 15th Army Group in Italy, in a March 1944 report to London. One of General Montgomery’s ablest staff officers, Brig. Frank Richardson, later said of the German soldiers he and his comrades faced: “I have often wondered how we ever beat them.”[13]Max Hastings, Inferno: The World at War, 1939-1945 (NewYork: 2012 ), pp. 512, 520.

Similar views were shared by front-line soldiers on both sides of the conflict. Italian artillery lieutenant Eugenio Conti, who was deployed along with units of other European nations in the savage fighting on the Eastern front in the Winter of 1942-43, later recalled: “I … asked myself … what would have become of us without the Germans. I was reluctantly forced to admit that alone, we Italians would have ended up in enemy hands … I … thanked heaven that they were with us there in the column … Without a shadow of a doubt, as soldiers they have no equal.”[14]M. Hastings, Inferno (2012), p. 312. Source cited: Eugenio Conti, Few Returned: 28 Days on the Russian Front, Winter 1942-1945 (1997), p. 138. A US Army officer who fought in Belgium in late 1944, Lt. Tony Moody, later spoke about how he and other American GIs had regarded their adversaries: “We felt the Germans were much better trained, better equipped, a better fighting machine than us.”[15]M. Hastings, Inferno (2012), p. 572.

Even during the final weeks of the war, when the outlook was gloomy indeed, Hitler’s men continued to battle with astonishing verve — as a Soviet intelligence report of March 1945, acknowledged: “Most German soldiers realize the hopelessness of their country’s situation after the January advances, though a few still express faith in German victory. Yet there is no sign of a collapse in enemy morale. They are still fighting with dogged persistence and unbroken discipline.”[16]M. Hastings, Inferno (2012), p. 594.

Milovan Djilas was a senior figure in Tito’s anti-German partisan army, and after the war served in high-level posts in Yugoslavia. Looking back, he recalled the German soldiers’ endurance, steadfastness and skill as they slowly retreated from rugged mountainous areas under the most daunting conditions: “The German army left a trail of heroism … Hungry and half naked, they cleared mountain landslides, stormed the rocky peaks, carved out bypasses. Allied planes used them for leisurely target practice. Their fuel ran out … In the end they got through, leaving a memory of their martial manhood.”[17]M. Hastings, Inferno, pp. 586-587. Source cited: Milovan Djilas, Wartime (1980), p. 446.

However better the training, dedication and resourcefulness of Germany’s fighting men may have been, and however higher the quality of their tanks, machine guns and other equipment, none of that was enough to offset the great quantitative superiority of their enemies.

Despite limited resources, and especially a persistent shortage of petroleum, as well as other formidable challenges, the German nation and their leaders showed extraordinary organizational ability, inventiveness and adaptability in 1942, 1943 and 1944 in utilizing the available human and materiel resources to dramatically increase production of high-quality weapons and equipment. But during that same period, the Soviet Union and the United States harnessed their much more abundant natural resources and manpower reserves to turn out far greater quantities of weapons, ships, bombers, fighter planes, tanks and artillery.

Above all, the major Allied powers had vastly larger numbers of men to send into battle, and many more people to deploy at home to support the war effort. (Contrary to Hollywood’s portrayal of World War II, Soviet forces did much more than those of the US to defeat Germany. Some 80 percent of Germany’s armed forces were destroyed by the Soviets.)[18]B. H. Liddel Hart, History of the Second World War (New York: 1971), pp. 257, 486, 487, 710; Ben H. Shepherd, Hitler’s Soldiers (2016), pp. 245, 328-329; M. Hastings, Inferno (2012), pp. 315, 351, 369.

It was the superiority of numbers that was ultimately decisive. The Second World War in Europe was a victory of quantity over quality.

Even as their nation endured ever more crushing privation, destruction and suffering, and as their cities were being pounded into ruins, German fighting men at the front, backed by their people at home, displayed tremendous dedication, discipline and resourcefulness in defiantly withstanding the quantitatively superior might of great enemy powers.

This point was underscored in the somber final German armed forces communique, issued on May 9, 1945:[19]Final German OKW armed forces communique, May 9, 1945. ( http://de.metapedia.org/wiki/Wehrmachtbericht_vom_9...i_1945 ) “In the end the German armed forces succumbed with honor to enormous superiority. Loyal to his oath, the German soldier’s performance in a supreme effort for his people can never be forgotten. To the last, the homeland supported him with all its strength in an effort entailing the heaviest sacrifices. The unique performance of the front and homeland will find its final recognition in a later, just judgment of history. The enemy, too, will not deny his respect for the achievements and sacrifices of German soldiers on land, at sea, and in the air.”

Endnotes

[1] Max Hastings, “Their Wehrmacht Was Better Than Our Army,” The Washington Post, May 5, 1985 ( https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1985/05/05/their-wehrmacht-was-better-than-our-army/0b2cfe73-68f4-4bc3-a62d-7626f6382dbd ). In the popular weekly American television show “Combat!” (1962 to 1967), a small unit of US soldiers deployed in France in 1944 routinely and easily killed larger groups of unimaginative German troops. In every single episode of the popular US television sitcom “Hogan’s Heroes” (1965-1971), World War II Germans, and especially German military personnel, were portrayed as timid, easily fooled and cowardly, while the Allied soldiers, especially Americans, were always smart, resourceful and creative.

[2] Churchill radio address of June 22, 1941. Quoted in: Winston Churchill, The Second World War, volume 3/ “The Grand Alliance” (Boston: Houghton Mifflin, 1950), p. 371.

[3] This assessment of Trevor N. Dupuy first appeared in his book A Genius for War: The German Army and the General Staff, 1807-1945 (1977), pp. 253-254. An updated summary of his work on the subject is in: Trevor N. Dupuy, David L. Bongard and R. C. Anderson, Jr., Hitler’s Last Gamble (1994), Appendix H (pages 498-501). This quotation of Dupuy is given in: Max Hastings, Overlord: D-Day and the Battle for Normandy (New York: 1984), pp. 184, 326 (n. 30); John Mosier, Deathride: Hitler vs. Stalin, 1941- 1945 (Simon & Schuster, 2010), pp. 443-444 (note 48);

[4] Max Boot, War Made New (New York: 2006), p. 462. See also pp. 238, 553.

[5] Ben H. Shepherd, Hitler’s Soldiers: The German Army in the Third Reich (Yale University Press, 2016), pp. 524, 87, 396, 525.

[6] Ben H. Shepherd, Hitler’s Soldiers (2016), pp. 87, xi.

[7] Ben H. Shepherd, Hitler’s Soldiers (2016), pp. 87, 437.

[8] Ben H. Shepherd, Hitler’s Soldiers (2016), pp. 533, xiii.

[9] Max Hastings, Overlord: D-Day and the Battle for Normandy (New York: 1984), p. 24, 315-316.

[10] M. Hastings, Overlord (1984), p. 24; M. Hastings, “Their Wehrmacht Was Better Than Our Army,” The Washington Post, May 5, 1985.

[11] M. Hastings, “Their Wehrmacht Was Better Than Our Army,” The Washington Post, May 5, 1985.

[12] Winston Churchill, The Second World War, volume 1/“The Gathering Storm” (Boston: 1948), pp. 582-583.

[13] Max Hastings, Inferno: The World at War, 1939-1945 (NewYork: 2012 ), pp. 512, 520.

[14] M. Hastings, Inferno (2012), p. 312. Source cited: Eugenio Conti, Few Returned: 28 Days on the Russian Front, Winter 1942-1945 (1997), p. 138.

[15] M. Hastings, Inferno (2012), p. 572.

[16] M. Hastings, Inferno (2012), p. 594.

[17] M. Hastings, Inferno, pp. 586-587. Source cited: Milovan Djilas, Wartime (1980), p. 446.

[18] B. H. Liddel Hart, History of the Second World War (New York: 1971), pp. 257, 486, 487, 710; Ben H. Shepherd, Hitler’s Soldiers (2016), pp. 245, 328-329; M. Hastings, Inferno (2012), pp. 315, 351, 369.

[19] Final German OKW armed forces communique, May 9, 1945. ( http://de.metapedia.org/wiki/Wehrmachtbericht_vom_9._Mai_1945 )

(Republished from Institute for Historical Review by permission of author or representative)
 
• Category: History • Tags: American Media, World War II 
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  1. Varenik says:

    Lost me with Max Boot as an ” influential author and military historian”…
    Absurd.
    A freaking neocon rewriting history.

  2. Mikhail says: • Website

    Max Boot draws a similar conclusion in his detailed book, War Made New. “Man for man,” writes this influential author and military historian, “the Wehrmacht was probably the most formidable fighting force in the world until at least 1943, if not later.

    Historian? More like a neocon flack.

    On average, he concluded, 100 German soldiers were the equivalent of 120 American, British or French soldiers, or 200 Soviet soldiers.

    Talk about inaccurate stereotypes.

    • Replies: @tamo
    , @Paw
  3. From my free on-line book:

    http://www.g2mil.com/strategy.htm

    Military Strategists

    “The men the American people admire most extravagantly are the greatest liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth.”

    H.L. Mencken

    How should a nation train military strategists? The first challenge is teaching students that some of what they learned in school is false. Nations and institutions develop a culture based upon myths of superiority. For example, World War II combat infantryman Paul Fussell’s book “Doing Battle” didn’t sell nearly as well as books by Stephen Ambrose, who somehow missed military service but became wealthy writing about brave and brilliant American troops in World War II. Perhaps Fussell’s work wasn’t popular because he insisted on writing:

    “In the opinion of British military historian Max Hastings, the American forces were so bad (and actually so were most of the British) ‘that when Allied troops met Germans on anything like equal terms, the Germans almost always prevailed.’ Thank God the troops, most of them, didn’t know how bad we were. It’s hard enough to be asked to die in the midst of heroes, but to die in the midst of stumblebums led by fools — intolerable. And I include myself in this indictment.”

    Fussell wrote that of the 12 million Americans who served during World War II, only one million volunteered. The rest entered “kicking and screaming” with the threat of imprisonment and spent the war scheming to avoid combat. His short book “The Boys’ Crusade”, is about infantrymen fighting in Europe during World War II where he served as a lieutenant. He noted many great books on the war, but wrote that all missed key elements, such as:

    - Most fighting was done by American infantrymen, who were just out of high school. They were drafted and didn’t want to be in the war or the Army. The Army’s official tally was 19,000 deserters in Europe.

    - Self-inflicted wounds (a downward bullet wound to a leg or arm) were so common that the Army kept a tally and used it to measure unit morale.

    - When the U.S. Army’s new 106th Infantry Division was attacked at the beginning of the Battle of the Bulge, it didn’t put up a fight. Its boys were so startled by the unexpected appearance of large numbers of German panzers that officers jumped into jeeps and fled while 8000 GIs threw up their hands and surrendered.

    - The “platoon guide” was a junior sergeant added to each infantry platoon whose duty was the trail the platoon and confront anyone who attempted to desert.

    - During the Battle of the Bulge, the Germans sent 150 English speaking commandos dressed in US Army uniforms to infiltrate American frontlines and cause chaos. They were quickly captured because American MPs guarded all roadways. Any healthy soldier heading toward the rear was presumed a deserter and arrested and interrogated.

    It is difficult to learn from history because by definition it is “his story”; the victor’s account of what happened. Students of history cannot learn from mistakes if they are hidden. Blunders are often spun into magnificent accomplishments. For example, during World War II the US Pacific Fleet Command thought the Japanese island of Iwo Jima was lightly defended and that it would take just three days to secure it with the loss of around 600 Americans killed. This tiny, remote island with no harbor or fresh water source was not important since it posed no threat to American ships or aircraft.

    As a result, the Iwo Jima landing began with a light naval gunfire bombardment, then Marines went ashore to mop up. They were surprised to find 21,000 Japanese dug into fortified mountains. An intense battle raged for 36 days that resulted in 6800 marines, soldiers, and sailors dead. Twice that many were wounded so badly they were sent home and discharged. This unnecessary battle wiped out almost half the combat power of the entire US Marine Corps. Why was intelligence so bad? Was more reconnaissance possible? Should the Marines have withdrawn when the mistake was discovered?

    Such issues are never addressed because this bloody battle was spun into a dramatic victory. Even worse, there is a shallow mindset among many people not to question government historical accounts because it is viewed as unpatriotic. This controversy is summarized in an excellent yet unpopular book, “The Ghosts of Iwo Jima.” A US Marine Corps major once stated that having an extensive and effective public relations branch was good, but its own officers confuse positive sales crap with reality.

    • Replies: @animalogic
    , @Jake
    , @anon
    , @denk
  4. Okimutt says:

    Tell it to the Marines!

  5. Another interesting segment from my book related to Germans in combat:

    Outfoxing Guerillas

    A fascinating book is “The Devil’s Guard” about ex-Nazis fighting for the French Foreign Legion in Vietnam in the early 1950s. The Viet Cong guerillas hid among the villagers and were very difficult to identify since they always had local security to warn of approaching French forces. One tactic the French Nazis developed was for two sharpshooters from the back of a patrol to stealthily drop into the bush as they entered a village. The column would pass through as the villagers waved or ignored them.

    After the column faded into the distance, sometimes there was interesting activity. A few excited villagers would appear from nowhere to discuss things, often with weapons in hand. Sometimes a villager would set up a radio set, and often a farmer would retrieve a rifle he had just hidden. If the column heard their sharpshooters open fire, they would hurry back to the village to investigate, otherwise they would pause to allow the sharpshooters to catch up after dashing around the edge of the village.

    Thinking Ahead

    This final story is not really a tactic, but was mentioned by one of my favorite authors, Paul Fussell. During World War II, the Germans often booby trapped doors when leaving an area. As a result, GIs learned to carry rope that they used to open the latch of a door before they went inside. One day, Fussell came upon a couple dead GIs behind the brick well in front of a farm house. He could see they had been killed by a small explosion and noticed that a rope ran from them to the door latch of the nearby house. Apparently, a forward thinking German made the effort to wire the booby-trap to explode near the most likely hiding place of someone using a rope to open the door. Fussell wrote that knew he should cry for the dead GIs, but he couldn’t resist laughing.

  6. Avery says:

    { “In the end the German armed forces succumbed with honor to enormous superiority. Loyal to his oath, the German soldier’s performance in a supreme effort for his people can never be forgotten. To the last, the homeland supported him with all its strength in an effort entailing the heaviest sacrifices. The unique performance of the front and homeland will find its final recognition in a later, just judgment of history. The enemy, too, will not deny his respect for the achievements and sacrifices of German soldiers on land, at sea, and in the air.”}

    What a crock.

    German soldiers were invaders in somebody else’s homeland.
    They killed and murdered people fighting for their homeland, fighting Nazi invaders.

    What so called ‘honor’?
    What so called ‘achievements and sacrifices’?

    The result of their ‘achievement’ is today’s Germany: neutered and prostrate, a vassal of US Neocons, so demoralized and guilt-ridden that its government runs PSAs teaching German women how to whore themselves to ‘refugees’.

    • Troll: L.K
  7. tamo says:
    @Mikhail

    I beg to differ. When it comes to discipline, fanaticism, bravery, savagery, self-sacrifice, the World War 2 German soldiers couldn’t hold a candle to the imperial Japanese troops.

  8. Duuude says:

    Why they lost? Go read the art of war. Logistics win wars.

  9. AKAHorace says:

    Germany was a country of many dialects of German and regional identities. Were army units from all over the country or did they have regional identities ?

    • Replies: @Threestars
  10. Lot says:

    What now is the point of this article? Collecting a large group of sources that say what is conventional wisdom, like it were not so?

    The only source mentioned here saying something negative about the German army was a wartime pep talk by Churchill. And even then, he more made a moral point than a factual claim about fighting ability.

    • Replies: @ploni almoni
  11. anon[365] • Disclaimer says:

    In what universe did anyone seriously claim the Germans weren’t good soldiers? And who cares now?

    And everyone knows why they lost.

    • Replies: @animalogic
  12. Max Boot is a disgrace, but is he a bad military historian? That’s not rhetorical, it’s a question. Maybe his military history is fine.

    Certainly there’s nothing wrong with the other military historians cited.

    I could nitpick about B. H. Liddel Hart allowing himself to be duped by Guderian in order to promote Guderian’s fantasy of himself as a military prophet and Panzer God who allegedly overcame hidebound officers in love with trench warfare in exchange for Guderian promoting the myth that he and other German officers were heavily influenced by Liddel Hart.

    The essay in question is a nice read, but it actually does nothing to explain WHY the German Army was so formidable. And it doesn’t even attempt to bring up why the Germany Army in WW2 never cracked like it did in 1918.

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    , @Georgiaboy61
  13. Zimriel says:

    Did the author of this post even WATCH ‘A Bridge Too Far’? The whole point of the movie was Allied arrogance and overreach in Market Garden. The Germans observed the Allied mistakes and won that particular battle (according to the screenwriters).

    • Replies: @animalogic
    , @Mr. Anon
  14. @Varenik

    Lost me with Max Boot as an ” influential author and military historian”…

    Why? It’s factually accurate. Boot is an influential author and military historian.

    He’s also an asshole Neocon. You and I might wish he had less influence for that reason, but it doesn’t change the fact that he does.

    • Agree: Z-man
    • Replies: @Z-man
  15. Excellent article. Stirring reminder that heroism, sacrifice, valour and greatness were an inherent part of the Third Reich.

    • Replies: @Karl
  16. The strengths of the German army in WW2 (Auftragstaktik etc.) have long been recognized, this isn’t exactly new ground.
    And quoting popular historians like Max Hastings, let alone the ridiculous Max Boot, isn’t especially persuasive. The glowing tone of admiration in this piece is also irritating and will certainly provoke many commenters into pointing out German crimes.
    Really pointless article.

    • Troll: L.K
  17. Raymond says:

    I can’t say about the German soldiers being better.
    Sounds reasonable, but such comparisons are as hard to make fairly as are claims of drug efficacy.
    Certainly the Germans were better prepared.

    Some of their superiority might be home field advantage.
    I notice that the Confederacy outfought the Union repeatedly with less armament, but failed entirely at the 2 crucial attempts to invade the Union.
    Easier lines of supply and familiarity with the area explain the Confederate’s record better than the idea of intrinsic superiority of their soldiers.
    Each side fought better on its own ground.
    So, also, I expect with the Germans, although I am not averse to the idea of their superiority.

    I more strongly object to the better weapons claim.
    Tanks, yes, but not aircraft or rifles.
    The German infantry was equipped with bolt action rifles while the American was equipped with the semi-automatic M1 Garand.
    The introduction of the P-51 fighter in the middle of the war ensured the Germans lost air superiority.

    When it comes to technical innovation and the support equipment which turned out to be at least as important as the weapons, there’s no contest.
    Radar, code breaking, espionage, transport, sonar, and the Manhattan Project beat the German advantage in rocketry, jet planes, and machine guns.
    This isn’t to say that German engineering and design weren’t superior.
    They were and may still be, but who could beat a country which could muster the means to put a radar set inside an anti-aircraft shell in an age of vacuum tubes?
    This while the Germans were still using horses to transport artillery.

  18. Lefty says:

    It helped that we were reading their mail. We often had decrypted traffic in our commanders hands as quickly as the Germans were able to receive and decrypt their own Enigma traffic.

    No matter how much equipment we built it seems questionable we would have prevailed against a better trained, better equipped and better led adversary had we not known what they were planning to do, when, where and with what.

    At the bulge the Germans took their traffic off the air and put it on landlines in part because they were beginning to suspect they were being read. Even with numeric and equipment advantages we were not so superior when we did not know German force disposition and battle plans.

    In the end the German propaganda was no more accurate than our own, and that was fatal to their cause. They believed we were too dumb to break Enigma.

    • Replies: @Neuday
    , @Alfa158
  19. utu says:

    http://dailyarchives.org/index.php/archives/80-russian-wwii-vets-say-wehrmacht-and-waffen-ss-were-the-best-soldiers-in-the-world

    Boris Vasiljev was the Red Army battle officer during WW2:

    “The Nazi Germans waged war perfectly. Even when they were encircled, they fought excellently! I know it. I saw it by myself!”

    “We`ve managed to win the war by chance, absolutely. Evald von Kleist simply decided to stop his tanks for several days just near Moscow. Therefore, the Soviets received some free time in order to transfer the fresh troops, which attacked the Germans very successfully”

    The late Viktor Astafjev was on the Soviet-German front all the war long, 1941-1945:

    “The Germans fought much, much better — in all respects! The Communists chose to shed rivers of the Russian blood literally in order to win the War. The Soviets won over Germany only by their extreme brutality and inhumanity!”

    • Replies: @siberiancat
  20. Ypresguy says:

    Mr Weber,
    The German soldier in WW One was able to inflict injury on a 3 to 1 basis against allied troops.
    Quantity prevailed as well at the end. Agree with first commenter about Boot.

  21. utu says:

    As war progressed Germans were executing more soldiers for desertion/cowardice:

    Sept 1939 – Sept 1940 : 515
    Sept 1940 – Sept 1941 : 445
    Sept 1941 – Sept 1942 : 1648
    Sep 1942 – Sept 1943 : 2748
    Sept 1943 – Sept 1944 : 4039

    Some claim that 15,000 German soldiers were executed during WWII. It is possible that number is higher because the executions carried out in last few months of war were not all recorded.

    UK – 40, France – 103, USA – 1

    Red Army between Jun 1941 – Oct 1941 executed 10,000.

    Antony Beevor cites over 13,000 executed Red Army soldiers in Stalingrad alone.

    Through the entire war, 158,000 were sentenced to execution as according to Krivosheev2 , some 13,000 or so alone during Stalingrad.

    Nobody knows how many Red Army soldiers were killed by the infamous barrier troops.

    “during World War II, Soviet tribunals convicted more than 2.5 million Soviet citizens, condemned 472,000 for “counter-revolutionary activity,” and executed 217,000.”

    What is interesting that during the WWI Germany had the lowest number of executions. In fact 20 times lower than combined France+UK+Canada+USA.

  22. Tom Welsh says:

    Churchill’s oratory has been rightly praised, but sometimes he would get carried away.

    In the speech quoted, he should have remembered that locusts do not usually crawl; they do so only when feeding. Normally they fly – at considerable speed and in vast numbers. Rather like the Wehrmacht.

    • Replies: @Joe Karera
  23. Shepherd:

    Nazi ideology placed great importance upon qualities such as courage, endurance, resourcefulness and strength of character, as well as upon comradeship.

    Love ‘em, hate ‘em, whatever—the Wehrmacht put on a hell of a show.

    [ Trigger warning: The following clip contains some possibly controversial statements. Viewer discretion advised. The content contained therein does not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of J.I.E. LLC. To avoid long term injury, seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than four hours. ]

    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
  24. @Jenner Ickham Errican

    P.S., to get rid of STOP DONALD TRUMP, close the annotation box.

  25. Heros says:

    One advantage Germany has over the Franco and Anglo-Saxon western countries is the apprenticeship system. The apprentice, or Lehrling, starting with little or no pay, works his way up to the top of his profession, and once there he can be tested and accepted as being a “Meister”. There are Meister’s for just about every aspect of life, even housekeeping, chimney cleaning, plumber, you name it. It is important that being a “Meister” never had anything to do with race, it had to do with the respect and honor of your peers.

    Meister is one of the words that Jewish Power (JP) has perverted to their own purposes. JP would have have us believe that Meister is Master, as in the Jewish plantation masters throughout the South before the war of Northern Aggression. JP would have us forget that Jews are god’s self proclaimed “chosen people”, as in they are somehow better by gods choice. JP has projected their own racist definition “Master Race” onto the Germans, who really were talking about an non-racial merit based system where all people strove to become “meister” in everything that they did. One can easily see this at play in the 1936 Berlin Olympics, if one is inclined to scratch below the kosher veneer of “history”.

    [MORE]

    This pride at being the worlds cultural and manufacturing Meisters also flowed into the army, which had a long and honored Christian tradition. Himmler of course wanted the SS to be composed of only the finest examples of German’s military prowess, “Meisters” of Soldiery, which they were. Of course the Wehrmacht also had Meister soldiers and since it was mostly composed of proud and hard working Germans was an exemplary military force.

    Of course Jews, god’s chosen, have tried to project onto the German Army the behavior of their forces, the NKVD, “Partisans”, Irgun and Hagana on the Christians of Russia, Ukraine, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Romania, Bulgaria, Syria, Lebanon and Palestine. In every case the Jew’s own war criminals have murdered and tortured priests, destroyed churches, enslaved and murdered Christians men, women and children. Over and over. And they are still doing it even today.

    It becomes clear why JP is so invested in portraying the German Meister Army as being the worlds preeminent war criminals, and why they had to set up the sham Nuremburg trials.

    When the invading allies in the east and the west entered Germany, they simply rounded up anyone of interest, declared them “Disarmed Enemy Combatant” and then decided whether to kill them, rape them, or send them to an internment camp. Anyone who had been in the SS could expect to be tortured, likely including having their testicles crushed so they could never have children, part of the Morgentau plan. There are no reports of German partisans stringing up Allied soldiers with Piano wire the way the Jewish Irgun did to British soldiers in Palestine and German soldiers where ever they could.

    One set of statistics missing from this article is the number of rapes. It is becoming clear that even the Yankees, who long claimed that their soldiers never raped German women because they could be bought with a candy bar, actually raped untold thousands of Germans. Of course the French were as brutal as the Russian hordes, and the British were little better. The German army was very strict about this, and my guess is that the number of rapes per day was a small fraction when the German army was occupying. This is born out by Jews who ended up in the same concentration camps after the Bolshevik victory, who state that things were far better under the Germans.

    The German army , especially the Einsatz Gruppen, are always accused of excessive violence against innocent jews and villagers. As usual, JP would have us believe that the Jew problems started when Germany invaded Poland. In reality, Germany had almost fallen to the Bolsheviks already in Berlin 1919 and in Munich in 1920. Jewish Bolsheviks were doing more than agitating, they were murdering ethnic German’s in Czechoslovakia and Poland. After Poland surrendered, these communist terrorists continued their activities against the German army and any corroboraters.

    So if the German army captured 50 terrorist partisans and sent them to Auschwitz, they of course were called “innocent jews”. It is the same with Jews who left Germany after 1933. No one ever says that the entire Frankfurt school left Germany because they were communists, they always say that they had to leave because they were jews.

    When Theodore Kaufmann release his book “Germany Must Perish” in 1940, which later was the basis for the leaked Morgentau plan, Goebbels picked up on it and used it as “propaganda” on the Germans and German army. I put propaganda in scare quotes because, like much of what is labelled “Goebbels propaganda”, it was true. JP had declared war on Germany in 1933. JP had gotten Czechoslovakia and Poland to support Bolshevic attacks against ethnic Germans, JP released “Germany Must Perish” in 1941, JP leaked their Morgentau plan in 1944, and in 1945-48 JP implemented the Morgentau plan. It was pre-meditated and calculated genocide of Germans in Sudetenland, along the Danube, in Silesia and Pommerania.

    So yes, the German soldier was the best by far. The Jewish soldiers are the sleaziest genocidal racial supremacists in the history of the planet.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Kolo
  26. NotReally says:

    the German nation and their leaders showed extraordinary organizational ability, inventiveness and adaptability in 1942, 1943 and 1944 in utilizing the available human and materiel resources to dramatically increase production of high-quality weapons and equipment

    This completely neglects to mention the increasing exploitation of forced and slave labor. Its very cynical to just speak of “human resources” when the Germans utilized forced labor, prisoners of war, victims of their genocidal campaign against Jews, Roma, Sinti, and political opponents (communists, social democrats, later in the war Catholic priests) and people undesirable in their view of society (from the gay to the conscientious objectors/religious objectors to the “asocials” and convicted “career criminals”) in their bid to increase production. Their underground bunker/mine factories – slave labor. Their enormous uboat bunkers – slave labor.

    This is not adaptability. In fact, German leadership of the time refused to engage the female work force in a significant way, and this lack of adaptability rather reduced their war-time production compared as to what could have been – a mistake not made by the Allies. This was because their ideology – regarding the role of woman in society and their views of those they saw as “inferior” – ultimately trumped any other consideration.

    The article is interesting but skewed, especially by omission. I wish an accurate history of WW2 without bias and political distortion was indeed documented so we all could draw our own conclusions from it. At least this includes some good reading links – “Hitler’s Soldiers: The German Army in the Third Reich” for example seems to paint a more diverse and analytical picture than what you would expect from the selective quotes alone.

    • Replies: @foolisholdman
    , @Wally
  27. Anon[329] • Disclaimer says:

    How did the average German soldier behave morally in battle and towards his surrendering/captured enemy? And how did he treat the foreign civilians he presided over, in comparison to how the American, British, Soviet and Japanese soldiers behaved?

    Did the German soldier show as much ethical professionalism as he showed fighting professionalism?

    Whatever you think of the war crimes that were ordered from Nazi high command, can you not separate the behavior of the average soldier from that of the administration?

    • Replies: @Dr. X
    , @Wally
    , @herkimer
  28. PeterMx says:

    And as amazing as the Wehrmacht was, this doesn’t include a discussion of the Waffen SS, called by some the most formidable fighting force ever assembled. They ultimately deployed about 1 million soldiers and were often called upon in the most dire circumstances. Like the Germans on the home front, that had on average, thousands murdered every night by bombers, sometimes tens of thousands killed in a few hours like in Pforzheim and other cities, or at least 135,000 people killed in Dresden, they never gave up.

    I believe it is a cultural trait of the Germans to never give up, combined with the fact they were facing complete annihilation, something the British, French or Americans never faced. Although Hitler offered England peace before it declared war on Germany and after Germany threw both the English and French armies into the sea in the Battle of France, Churchill was able to pull another world power into the fight on his side, the USA. At some point, probably after Stalingrad, the “allies” felt confident they had Germany and at some point added only “unconditional surrender” to no peace, and Germany could not put their people at the mercy of their killers, so they continued to fight. They also would not allow themselves to surrender. This was their response to their mass murderers, Churchill and his Jews:

    My German mother was turning 18 as the war was ending and she told me she thought Germany would win the war up until a month or two before the capitulation.

    • Replies: @animalogic
  29. Of course they were the best (I can’t think of anyone imagining otherwise). Just- you cannot win fighting against the entire world.

  30. So, according to this American and British soldiers were better than Soviet soldiers? Lol. German soldier was good, but the best soldiers under the best generals won the war. And when Brits faced Germans in their heyday, they had to take a swim after Dunkirk. Americans never faced Germans at their best otherwise they would not live to tell about that. It was Soviet army that tore guts to yes the best army of the time and by doing that Soviet soldiers proven they were better.

    • Replies: @Johnny Rico
    , @Jake
    , @animalogic
  31. LondonBob says:

    I remember reading that Allied soldiers, when asked why they were fighting, replied they don’t know, and that many never even fired their weapon. No doubt Wehrmacht soldiers were more motivated, and often better equipped, after all German society had been reordered this way. Of course the doctrines of JFC Fuller had been fully implemented by the Wehrmacht, whilst being neglected in his own.

    • Replies: @Maestrooftruth
  32. I don’t think this article says anything most people don’t know.

    During WW2 allied propaganda was aimed at puncturing the widespread myth of German invincibility.

    The only place I’ve really seen “Dumb Krauts” as a trope is in the lowest Hollywood products, ’70s US TV and more recent US garbage like ‘Fury’. The British traditionally regarded the Germans as icily efficient, almost inhuman machines, contrasted with our plucky little shopkeeper Tommys.

  33. anonymous[200] • Disclaimer says:

    Going by the title image… man, what a bunch of fugly losers (well, they did lose yeah?)

    So, these fuglies considered themselves the “master race”?! I suppose the very idea should be as comical as how white trailer trash consider themselves “superior” to some “third-worlder.” LOL!

    • Troll: Mike P
    • Replies: @Kolo
    , @Mike P
  34. Sorry – I couldn’t resist:

    • Replies: @PeterMx
  35. Not just in WW2, either. The German Army was consistently 25% more combat effective than French and British troops in WW1 up until it started to disintegrate in Oct-Nov 1918.

    And although Trevor N. Dupuy ascribes German military superiority to the Prussian General Staff (which many countries tried to copy anyway), it is worth noting that the Swiss were the most prominent mercenary people in Early Modern Europe (with the martial Scots coming in second place). So, back when there was a huge market for military services, a (mostly) Germanic people was the most competitive at that.

    Even after Germany was defanged, military experts had highly positive assessments of the Bundeswehr during the Cold War. And despite the German military’s current problems – possibly exaggerated ones – it is worth noting that Germanic nations consistently win the Strong Europe Tank Challenge even now.

    • Replies: @Jake
    , @Spisarevski
  36. Biff says:

    The introduction of the P-51 fighter in the middle of the war ensured the Germans lost air superiority.

    Rubbish. That plane came so late that it had zero impact. The high altitude B-29 did much more killing.

  37. You become what you believe yourself to be. If you believe you are the master race, you become the master race. Of course, the rest of the planet thinks you’re full of crap. Quantity over quality.

  38. @Carlton Meyer

    Pelalui [sic] was possibly an even greater strategic waste.
    And then there’s the Philippines campaign: an exercise in one man’s psychotic egoism ? A political necessity ?
    One argument for Iwo Jima was as an emergency landing strip for US bombers….valid argument ??
    Much of the Pacific campaign, especially after the Japanese navy was effectively destroyed , seems to be motivated by political rather more than military strategies….

  39. Congratulations, Mr Unz, on publishing an article from the Institute for Historical Review. I suppose the ADL will blacklist you permanently, if they hadn’t done so already.
    One aspect of the Germany military that I hope commenters will bring up is that it operated as a state within a state, and was regarded as such by the State’s rulers. Whether it served the Hohenzollerns, Weimar or Hitler, it always regarded its prime duty to be to the German State, the political regimes in charge at any given time being temporary landlords.
    This gave the military great autonomy, which it used to develop independent policies to defend the Reich against its enemies. The long continuity of military autonomy, going well back into Prussian times, also enabled the development of an effective military ethos amongst its personnel.
    Despite great difficulties in WWI and WWII, the German military performed their tasks very effectively, on the whole.
    Contrast this with C21st America. The military and the permanent state enjoy very great autonomy, but their actions follow the dictum, Perpetual War for Perpetual Peace. They bankrupt the country by the day. America’s end is not far off.

  40. @Zimriel

    Not to disagree…but the Germans had a bit of luck too…(wasnt that German tank Division (?) in THAT place for rest & reconstitution)

  41. @NotReally

    You like almost everyone else I read omit to mention the Italian soldiers who were sent to work as, effectively, slave labourers in Germany during WW2. I don’t know much about it except what I have been able to gather talking to an old neighbour who was conscripted into the Italian Army at the start of WW2 and almost at once sent to work in an arms factory in Germany, as was his whole unit. After the war they tried to get wages out of the German Government, but were refused on the grounds that they were Italian soldiers who were deployed to where they spent the war, and they would have to take it up with the Italian government.
    I imagine that the German military had such a poor opinion of them as soldiers, that they thought they would be more useful working in German industry.

    • Replies: @Wally
  42. jim jones says:

    When we have our war with China I suggest we send the Germans in first.

    • Replies: @turtle
    , @denk
  43. @Sergey Krieger

    Wow. Yeah. Good points. Good reasoning.

    I wish you had said something earlier before I read Mark Weber’s article and all those Max Hastings books.

    Are you really that stupid? Or are you just looking for a reaction?

    • Replies: @Sergey Krieger
  44. @Lot

    Perhaps to clear up booby traps inside your mind?

  45. @PeterMx

    Military culture
    & organisation are key components of German fighting prowess.
    All soldiers were trained to assume the role of the man above him.
    Junior officers & NCO’s were encouraged to think & given some scope to choose the tactical method to achieve operational goals.
    It is now considered a truism that the most important motivation for fighting men is “mateship”, loyalty to comrades. Thus it is a wonder that from late 43′ onwards German troops continued to fight on in ever more hastily thrown together ad hoc fighting units.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  46. Jake says:
    @Carlton Meyer

    ““The men the American people admire most extravagantly are the greatest liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth.”

    H.L. Mencken”

    Lincoln, for example, as well as Wilson and FDR.

    The same is true of the English middling and lower orders. It is a WASP thing, with the WASP Elites knowing to use it always to make their underlings dance to their their WASP Elite tune, which over time leads to a new type pf serfdom for those under the thumbs of WASP Elites.

    • Replies: @Rogue
  47. Dr. X says:

    It was the superiority of numbers that was ultimately decisive. The Second World War in Europe was a victory of quantity over quality.

    Same reason the Union beat the Confederacy…

    • Replies: @Kirt
    , @renfro
  48. Jake says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Exactly. The German Army was definitely the best in both World Wars.

    Of course, cultural/linguistic Germanic love of warring and their ability to do so with the best in the world has been a major problem for civilization since Germans entered world history as northern savages spending all their time and energy raiding southward for pelf and plunder.

    If the Germanic propensity for war is not tied to, and in service of, historic Christianity, it will serve to unmoor and then destroy civilization.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Rogue
  49. The Germans already lost the production war against the USSR as early as 1942. The Soviets were churning out T 34 tanks at a rate of over a thousand per month. German tank production was lagging behind. And the same applied to other categories of military production.

    And by late 1942 the Soviet production advantage began to be seen on the battlefields

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
  50. @tamo

    Your comment is quite possibly true. Japanese soldiers showed considerable skill in highly courageous, tenacious defense (often against overwhelming odds) but they really never showed anything like the German’s ability to reorganize and counterattack after a defeat. They were also outmaneuvered by William Slim’s brilliant campaign in Burma. Japanese equipment, save perhaps for the A6M Zero fighter in the early part of the war, and the Nambu light machine gun, was generally inferior to their Allied counterparts. The book Road Past Mandalay contains considerable praise of the fighting qualities of the Japanese soldier.

    • Replies: @tamo
  51. @Biff

    Think you’re a bit mixed up, Biff.
    B29 Superfortress never made it to Europe – tho it did very well in the Pacific.
    Mustang did have significant influence on the US airwar, especially after they got their “drop tanks” that meant they could protect their big brothers (B17 & Liberators) over all/most of their bombing operation. These planes WERE feared by the Germans.
    The Mustang was arguably the best fighter of the war (with stiff competition from the Hellfire, the last FW 190′s, the Me 262, & the Thunderbolt (my fave). List is extendable.)

    • Replies: @Diversity Heretic
  52. @German_reader

    There are always first-time readers on any subject.

  53. Dr. X says:
    @Anon

    Whatever you think of the war crimes that were ordered from Nazi high command, can you not separate the behavior of the average soldier from that of the administration?

    The war crimes against unarmed civilians — primarily mass shootings of Jews on the Eastern Front — were carried out by einsatzgruppen – “Special Operations Groups,” not “average soldiers.” The einsatzgruppen and the “detention camps” were organized by the SS, not the Heer (Army). Average conscripts and the Prussian professional officer corps were generally not involved in atrocities. Knowledge of such things would have been highly classified information.

    Whereas the SS swore a personal loyalty oath to Hitler, the Prussian general staff did not and Hitler distrusted them. Indeed, the assassination plot against Hitler that most nearly succeeded was carried out by Claus von Stauffenberg, a Prussian officer.

    So, yes, I think you can separate the atrocities from the average soldier.

    S

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @szopen
    , @Anon
  54. Here is a quote , paraphrasing, The common people do not want war, but the leaders set the policy and the people can be made to obey , all you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and putting the country in danger, it works the same in every country.

    Hermann Goring

    The warmongers know this and play the American people like a fiddle and so the wars go on and on and the bankers and the powers that be get richer and richer and the American people get poorer and poorer, same in all countries that go to war.

    Our Zionist masters are destroying America via the war fought for Israel in the Mideast.

  55. @Raymond

    Even the tank superiority is questionable. Nicolas Moran on The Chieftain’s Hatch YouTube site, rates the M4 Sherman the best tank of WWII, He bases this assessment on the ability of the crew to operate the tank and, interestingly enough, the ability to escape a damaged tank. The reputation of the Sherman as a death trap may be survivor bias–more Allied soldiers had stories about burning Shermans because they got out of them. Crews of Panthers, Tigers, MkIVs and T-34s weren’t so lucky.

  56. Peyton II says:

    The Nazis did win World War II, when they did quietly re build their Third Reich in Antarctica, because they realised in 1942 that they were going too lose their European continental Germany, and they sent their Nazis Party on u boats for years into the South Pole German colony of Neuschwabenland (or Base 211, Neu Berlin, and New Swabia @ youtube) and there is a book that’s called Empire Beneath the Ice, How the Nazis Won World War II written Stephen Quayle in 2015 with 32 reviews !!

    WORLD WAR II did end for Neuschwabenland, South Pole in 1967, when the Allies gave the New Swabians a compromise, and we realised that we cannot defeat the Nazis! You can also look up Operation Highjump (last BATTLE of World War II in 1946 in Eastern Antarctica) of where the Nazis did win that conflict with armed flying saucers !!

    • LOL: Dan Hayes
  57. JackOH says:

    Yes, the Germans were very good soldiers, and there’s an occasional sense I have that today’s Germans are browbeaten because their great-grandfathers were really very good at what they did on the battlefield.

    Just two talking points:

    (1) Paul Fussell remarks something to the effect he couldn’t understand why the Germans kept fighting relentlessly even when they must have known the war was lost. “Unconditional surrender”, the Allies’ aim, I’m very confident was translated into “rapine” and “liquidation” by the average German soldier fighting in the rubble of a bombed-out German city. What soldier wouldn’t want to exact a price from the enemy under those circumstances?

    (2) One tragedy of the modern era, I think, is that widespread literacy, universal education, and nominal liberties don’t “work” as they’re thought to “work”. I’m not sure 1 in 10 Americans knows that most of the European theater was a Russo-German affair, as but one example. Saying that does not diminish America’s contribution, but many Americans believe it does. The propagandization of American education, its use to build “self-esteem”, especially among Blacks, has people seeing injuries and slights that don’t actually exist and are not intended.

  58. What a waste for European-origin people to have been killing each other in such large numbers. I remember seeing a poster of a British and German soldier sharing a cigarette after WWI and the caption: “The Next Time We Fight Together.” In light of the demographic threat now facing all European-origin people, let’s all do what we can to make that statement true.

    • Agree: BenKenobi, Highlander
  59. anon[179] • Disclaimer says:
    @Carlton Meyer

    Excellent analysis. I struggle to name an American war that was ever fought out of necessity, other than perhaps Japan and Afghanistan because they attacked us, and the Mexican-American war where we gained vast territory. All other wars were wars we never should’ve gotten involved in, including WWII in Europe. The Spanish-American war was especially stupid. Entirely egged on by yellow journalism, we ended up with Guam, Philippines and Puerto Rico, 3 poverty stricken shitholes that do nothing but send us millions of unwanted immigrants for the past 5 decades. They remain a net drain to our treasury.

    Niall Ferguson said that England never should’ve gotten involved in WWI, they should’ve just let Germany take over Europe, and WWII never would’ve happened. I agree with him. If the UK never got involved, Europe today would be no different than the EU, except maybe everyone would be speaking German, the economy would be much stronger and the government would be much more functional. And the German soldiers never would’ve allowed the current invasion of Middle Eastern/African migrants into Europe.

    • Replies: @stjm
  60. Jake says:
    @Sergey Krieger

    The successes of the Soviet Army signaled the death, at some point, of the USSR. Why? Because the defense of the Motherland forced the Soviet leadership to rediscover increasing parts of traditional Russian ideas, and not just military defense ideas. And that means there would be a moving away from the ideas of a German Jewish atheist whose entire being was totally alien to Russia.

  61. anon[179] • Disclaimer says:

    Finally some truth about WWII. They say history is written by the victors, and the victors are now running our media and Hollywood. All Hollywood movies about WWII portrayed German soldiers as a bunch of nameless faceless drones who were there simply to be slaughtered by heroic Allied forces. Just a matter of time before we start getting movies about WWII where all the heroes are Jews, gays, blacks, females and tranny soldiers.

  62. jpk says:

    No wonder at all! Sie waren Ubermenschen, nich ja?

    • Replies: @Wally
  63. anon[179] • Disclaimer says:
    @Avery

    The result of their ‘achievement’ is today’s Germany: neutered and prostrate, a vassal of US Neocons, so demoralized and guilt-ridden that its government runs PSAs teaching German women how to whore themselves to ‘refugees’.

    Germans are demoralized today because Jews run their media and academia, and beat the guilt into them as they are doing all over western Europe and US.

    • Replies: @Karl
    , @Authenticjazzman
  64. anon[358] • Disclaimer says:

    Wermacht was on crystal meth. Explains a lot their battle vigor! Somehow Red Army on vodka prevailed :-)

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Nazi_Germany

    • Replies: @Wally
  65. @Anatoly Karlin

    Not really a big achievement, to be honest.

  66. EugeneGur says:

    The German soldiers were good – nobody in Russia ever said they were bad – but they were beaten by a better bread, i.e. the Russia soldier. As simple as that.

    the German nation and their leaders showed extraordinary organizational ability, inventiveness and adaptability . . . to dramatically increase production of high-quality weapons and equipment.

    Yes, they did. They very ably acquired other nations’s resources by conquering those nations and using these nations’ production facilities as well as, in many cases, their people as slave labor in concentration camps. Such inventiveness and adaptability should truly be admired by all.

    But during that same period, the Soviet Union and the United States harnessed their much more abundant natural resources and manpower reserves to turn out far greater quantities of weapons, ships, bombers, fighter planes, tanks and artillery.

    Putting the Soviet Union and the United States in the same sentence should tell you all about this opus. The “much more abundant natural resources” of the Soviet Union were not particularly accessible at the time and many weren’t even known. Obviously, it required no inventiveness and adaptability whatsoever to move the industry east from under the German bombs in the heat of the battles, set it up and start production in a matter of months. It’s all natural resources, you see – everything comes naturally, and tanks simply emerge from taiga.

    • Replies: @Rogue
    , @L.K
  67. anon[179] • Disclaimer says:

    What did the Jews do that was so bad it made a group of people hate them so much they were willing to launch a war to exterminate them? Jews need to do some serious soul-searching and come clean about why they were so hated throughout Europe. Until they become honest about their own faults(excessive greed, moral depravity and unwillingness to assimilate) instead of blaming it all on anti-Semitism, they will repeat the same mistakes over and over again and make themselves the enemy of the people wherever they go. Instead these arrogant power hungry parasites are doubling down by controlling the banks, media, academia and governments in the West and forcing open borders to kill off the western world altogether.

    • Replies: @Arthur Bryant
  68. Equating British, American and French soldiers as equals is a bit rich. If you want to know how it was with the Americans read “Catch 22″, “The Naked and the Dead” or any number of others. An utter disgrace. Truman dropped the bomb because he did not trust his army to fight in the field.

    The French, well I can politely say that they have not been able to defend the independence their country at any time since their revolution.

    The British on the other hand have a very long track record of tenacity even in the most hopeless situations which usually happen because their leadership is low IQ. The bright and innovative are considered subversive in the British army. Ordinary British soldiers have have been the match of any, that includes the Germans.

    Equipment that was better than the Germans: Submarines, air craft carriers, P51, Heavy bombers, , bren gun, jeep, 12.5mm machine gun, asdic/sonar, radar, artillery to name a few. Obviously some of the German equipment was the best, but this was not across the board.

    The big German weakness was sequential strategic and tactical miscalculation to the point where no recovery was possible. Think Stalingrad, Russia summer campaign 1942, Tunisia, the Final Solution, Battle of Kirsk, the alienation of the populations of Ukraine and others to name a few. All massive miscalculations. Errors were not only the NAZI’s, but the General Staff too.

    The Germans lost because Hitler always wanted it that way and he did everything he could to make it happen. He set the whole world against little old Germany and it was destroyed. The Germany of history is gone and in its place we have the Angela Republic

    • Agree: Philip Owen
  69. Wally says:
    @Avery

    said:
    “German soldiers were invaders in somebody else’s homeland.
    They killed and murdered people fighting for their homeland, fighting Nazi invaders.”

    Shed your indoctrination, get off your knees, put down & turn off Zionist National Geographic.

    We fought the wrong guys and turned half of Europe over to the communists.

    I do get your point about contemporary Germany

    Did Britain initiate both world wars?

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=10458

    Responsibility for WW2

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7544

    Who started bombing civilians first: Germany or Great Britain, Britain

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=8172

    Operation Barbarossa Was A Preventive Attack

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7999

  70. This is what Gen. Hans von Seeckt said he wanted in the 1920s:

    “[To make] of each individual member of the army a soldier who, in character, capability, and knowledge, is self-reliant, self-confident, dedicated, and joyful in taking responsibility [verantwortungsfreudig] as a man and a soldier.”

    And that is what he got.

    Oh yes, and then there is Pershing. Eisenhower. I wonder where they came from.

    • Replies: @Antlitz Grollheim
  71. anon[107] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jake

    crap comment. stick to your “Puritans = Judaized heresy” schtick, Jake.

    Germanic peoples had organized villages and towns early on; when Germanic peoples invaded Roman empire, they contributed to its cultural enrichment — Northern Italy, the prosperous part of that benighted boot, is prosperous and civilized largely due to Germanic influence.

    Germanic ethos, industry and intellectual capacity have contributed greatly to enrichment of many parts of USA. The debt USA has to the German – Northern European people is enormous.

    • Replies: @Chris Mallory
  72. Wally says:
    @anon

    There is any doubt that all parties in WWII, and all wars for that matter, used stimulants to keep their troops going. Not to mention pain pills, alcohol, you name it. Drug use in war is as old as war itself. Rather unsurprising really.
    However, as is required in our Jewish dominated media environment, only the greatly exaggerated ‘Nazis on drugs’, is acceptable discussion when in fact the Allies were just as wired & doped, that information is quite easily found.

    Wikipedia? Seriously. LOL

    Zionist Wikipedia Editing Course

    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/139189

    How Israel and Its Partisans Work to Censor the Internet

    http://www.unz.com/article/how-israel-and-its-partisans-work-to-censor-the-internet/?highlight=wikipedia

    The ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    see the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

  73. Wally says:
    @jpk

    Speaking of really saying “ubermenschen”.

    Allied WWII posters

    http://www.codoh.com

  74. EugeneGur says:

    The unique performance of the front and homeland will find its final recognition in a later, just judgment of history. The enemy, too, will not deny his respect for the achievements and sacrifices of German soldiers on land, at sea, and in the air.”

    I wonder what’s going on here. This is not the first publication on this site extolling the virtues of the Nazi Germany. The Germany was “defending” itself from an imminent attack by the Soviets; the German soldiers made sacrifices for Germany, etc.

    These German soldiers inflicted enormous suffering on people that did absolutely no harm to Germany. In the end, they did a disservice to Germany itself. Just judgement of history recognizes them precisely for what they were – well trained killers. They achievements are also well known as they were – mass murder of millions of innocents.

    • Replies: @anon
  75. To break the stalemate of trench warfare in WW1, the Germans came up with stormtrooper tactics while the British and French invented tanks and deployed them in force. The Germans’ innate sense of superiority made them rely on their own prowess instead of “thinking outside the box”. Maybe a little humility about your own abilities is actually a good thing. It enhances a realistic assessment of what it takes to win the war.

    • Replies: @Diversity Heretic
  76. Wally says:
    @Dr. X

    said: “The war crimes against unarmed civilians — primarily mass shootings of Jews on the Eastern Front — were carried out by einsatzgruppen – “Special Operations Groups,” not “average soldiers.”

    Laughable propaganda, read ALL below and learn. You’re in over your head.

    [MORE]

    The Fraudulent ‘holocau$t’ Industry now claims that ca. 2,000,000 Jews were shot by the Einsatzgruppen into huge pits, so, anyone, please SHOW us the actual excavations, the enormous mass graves, & remains that are claimed to exist to this day, their locations are allegedly known.
    Is that:
    100 graves of 20,000?
    200 graves of 10,000?
    400 graves of 5,000?
    500 graves of 4,000?
    1000 graves of 2000?
    2000 graves of 1000?
    and: https://codoh.com/library/document/5515/?lang=en
    The Einsatzgruppen Trial
    informative discussion here:
    The Einsatzgruppen Trial’ / from the journal, Inconvenient History.

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11791

    and:
    former Einsatzgruppen Members Reject Bizarre Claims of Mass Shootings / Babi Yar, etc.

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11396

    and:
    !! Excavation Result: No Enormous Human Remains as Alleged at Babi Yar !! … of
    course

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11314

    aerial of Babi Yar at exact time of alleged action:

    Nothing happening, nothing.
    also see:
    ‘What Happened at Babi Yar?
    Fact vs. Myth’
    Using air photos and wartime newspapers, Ukrainian writer MICHAEL NIKIFORUK attacks a few myths about a wartime atrocity.

    http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/BabiYar/Nikiforuk.html

    and:
    ‘ Babi Yar: Critical Questions and Comments’

    http://codoh.com/library/document/920/?lang=en

    and:
    Bodies at Babi Yar, John Gibbons Reporting

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7302

    and:
    ‘Babi Yar ‘massacre’ debunked’
    viewtopic.php?f=2&t=41

    http://www.codoh.com

  77. Wally says:
    @foolisholdman

    What Italian “slave laborers”? Laughable.

    You’re right, you “don’t know much about it”.

    Italy was a German ally.

    http://www.codoh.com

  78. Wikipedia: “The Institute for Historical Review (IHR), founded in 1978, is an American organization best known for publishing articles and books promoting Holocaust denial”. That should be the end of the discussion.
    The Bismarkian German state has gone to war only twice since it was created and has lost badly on both occasions. In fact, Germany can never win a war, no matter how good its soldiers may be. That has to do with geography. Germany, and more broadly, the German Space, sits in the middle of Europe. It’s the hub of the European wheel. From it spokes go out to Scandinavia in the north, the Mediterranean in the south, Russia and the Urals to the east and the Atlantic islands to the west. That central position has meant that, for centuries, foreigners have fought their wars on German soil and the whole idea of German unification was intended to put a stop to that. It didn’t, so, in the modern world, the “alternatives for Germany” (to borrow a phrase!) are as follows. As now, ally with France and Britain against Russia: Russia invades from the east and Germany is devastated. Ally with Russia against France and Britain: they invade from the west and Germany is devastated. Go it alone: Russia invades from the east, France and Britain invade from the west and Germany is devastated. Bring all four major European powers together in a single entity (such as the EU): nobody invades and Germany isn’t devastated. That’s the logic of European integration, particularly from the German point of view: it spares Europe a further general war and it spares Germany a third unwinnable war. Too long to go into here are the various technological developments since WWII that have made masses of infantry “grunts” “plodding on like a swarm of crawling locusts” a sight unlikely to be seen in any future war.

    • Replies: @anon
  79. General George Patton, who never suffered fools gladly, was one of those generals who had the highest respect for the Wehrmacht. There is a scene in the movie “Patton” which takes place during the Battle of The Bulge where General Patton (as portrayed by George C. Scott) says that, unlike his other colleagues, he believed that they could still lose the war. And he wasn’t far from wrong either. If the s clouds over Bastogne had hung on for another week or two…well, who knows?

  80. Wally says:
    @Anon

    said:
    “Whatever you think of the war crimes that were ordered from Nazi high command, can you not separate the behavior of the average soldier from that of the administration?”

    What ‘orders’? Please show the actual orders.

    What “war crimes”? Please present proof of them.

    http://www.codoh.com

  81. @anon

    Germanic ethos, industry and intellectual capacity have contributed greatly to enrichment of many parts of USA. The debt USA has to the German – Northern European people is enormous.

    The American people would have been better off if no Germans had been allowed to immigrate.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @turtle
    , @renfro
  82. anon[179] • Disclaimer says:

    “The men the American people admire most extravagantly are the greatest liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth.”

    H.L. Mencken

    This is truer than ever in today’s west.

  83. Wally says:
    @NotReally

    said:
    ” victims of their genocidal campaign against Jews, Roma, Sinti, and political opponents (communists, social democrats, later in the war Catholic priests) and people undesirable in their view of society (from the gay to the conscientious objectors/religious objectors to the “asocials” and convicted “career criminals”) in their bid to increase production. Their underground bunker/mine factories – slave labor. Their enormous uboat bunkers – slave labor.”

    - What campaign against the “Jews, Roma, Sinti, political opponents (communists, social democrats, Catholics and people undesirable in their view of society”?
    - Present your proof.
    - Tell us how the impossible ‘gas chambers’ supposedly worked. LOL
    - Show us the claimed immense human remains that are said to exist to this day in claimed known locations.
    - The Myth of a Nazi Extermination of Homosexuals by Jack Wikoff http://www.cwporter.com/homo.htm
    - Gypsies and Homosexuals in the Camps http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=1894
    - homosexuals – Yad Vashem http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=1930

    The ‘homosexuals & gypsies’ canard is merely an attempt by Jews to buy votes for their laughable and impossible ’6M & gas chambers’.

    The ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    see the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

    • Replies: @FB
  84. Cyrano says:

    I guess when you cheer for a team that doesn’t look like a championship material, you try to recall who was the last team that beat the guys that are your main opponents now. Then you find out that they kind of have an unbeaten record, and then you start to retroactively cheer for the last guys that almost beat them, but that still doesn’t do you any good.

  85. Rich says:

    I agree with the historians who say that Stalingrad was what lost the war for the Germans. Hitler’s refusal to recognize the disaster as it unfolded, and Paulus’ inability to ignore his Fuhrer’s suicidal orders, prevented the German Army from reorganizing and preparing for the coming Soviet assault. Even if the Germans had finally been able to expel the Soviets from the ruins of Stalingrad, by the end of the battle, they would have lost too many men and wasted too many armaments anyway.

    Dunkirk, El Alamein and declaring war on the US didn’t help either, but if they could have stopped the Soviets in the East, they may have been able to survive the war in some form.

  86. anon[179] • Disclaimer says:
    @Heros

    So yes, the German soldier was the best by far. The Jewish soldiers are the sleaziest genocidal racial supremacists in the history of the planet.

    The menacing tribe continues to do their mischief around the world today, except now they have control of the most powerful military in history. America is now going through our own version of the Bolshevik revolution, except most Americans are too dumb and brainwashed to realize it.

    Instead of seizing the means of production, the new and improved Bolsheviks of today seized instead the media, academia and the banks, outsource the production to impoverish and hollow out the country, and recruite their army through open borders, identity politics and victim mentality, which proved to be much more effective.

  87. Incitatus says:

    “The German soldiers of World War II have often been portrayed…”

    Why not let them speak for themselves?

    “I wanted to come to the Volga, to a specific place and a specific city. It happened to have Stalin’s name, but that’s not why I went there. It could have had another name…A gigantic terminal is there and I wanted to take it. But, as you know, we are modest. That is to say that we have it now. Only a few small pockets of resistance are left. Some would say “Why not fight onwards?” Because I don’t want a second Verdun! I would rather hold this with small combat patrols! Time does not matter, no ships are coming up the Volga! That is the important point.”
    -Adolf Hitler 8 Nov 1942 address Löwenbräukeller, München

    Eleven weeks later:

    “Troops without ammunition or food. Effective command no longer possible. 18,000 wounded without any supplies or dressings or drugs. Further defense senseless. Collapse inevitable. Army requests immediate permission to surrender in order to save lives of remaining troops.”
    -Friedrich Paulus, radio message to Hitler 24 Jan 1943

    The Führer’s reply:

    “Surrender is forbidden. Sixth Army will hold their positions to the last man and the last round and by their heroic endurance will make an unforgettable contribution toward the establishment of a defensive front and the salvation of the Western world.”
    -Adolf Hitler radio response to Paulus 24 Jan 1943

    One week later:

    “The Sixth Army, true to their oath and conscious of the lofty importance of their mission, have held their position to the last man and the last round for Führer and Fatherland unto the end.”
    -Friedrich Paulus, radio message to Hitler 31 Jan 1943

    “You are talking to dead men here.”
    -Paulus to a Luftwaffe officer sent to Stalingrad

    The Führer learns of Sixth Army surrender:

    “What hurts me the most, personally, is that I still promoted him [Paulus] to field marshal. I wanted to give him this final satisfaction… a man like that besmirches the heroism of so many others at the last moment. He could have freed himself from all sorrow and ascended into eternity and national immortality, but he prefers to go to Moscow.”

    Lesson? Even the best soldiers are cannon-fodder for messianic leadership.

    Twenty-seven months later:

    “It is untrue that I or anyone else in Germany wanted the war in 1939…”

    -Adolf Hitler ‘Political Testament’ 29 Apr 1945

    The following day Hitler’s Walther PPK 7.65 made “an unforgettable contribution” to “the salvation of the Western world”.

  88. Germany lost because
    1. micromagement from the political class

    2. germany bit off more than they could chew and did so too fast minus any stop gapping to refresh and resupply

    3. spent a good deal of effort on segregating vital resources — it most vital resource – it’s population I buy the arguments made here by Eric Zuezze

    • Replies: @anon
  89. anon[179] • Disclaimer says:
    @EugeneGur

    This article simply puts forth a different take on the military capability of Germany. It says nothing about politics or their cause.

    • Replies: @EugeneGur
  90. Z-man says:
    @Pincher Martin

    You are correct. Where I differ with you is that I think Boot should be ‘drawn and quartered’. (Big Grin)

  91. Moses says:

    “Battle Leadership” is a book written by WW1 (and presumably WW2) German officer Adolf Von Schell.

    It details the training and mindset of a German infantry officer. Germans emphasized initiative, adaptability and decision-making in fluid battle situations obscured by the fog of war.

    One lesson I remember is “When in doubt about the strength of the enemy, make a probing attack.” A lot like how a good poker player will raise to test another’s hand. Like poker, war is full of uncertainty and risk (and you can get killed).

    The book is chock full of practical advice on how an infantry officer should lead his men and make decisions. A great, short read.

    https://www.amazon.com/Battle-Leadership-Adolf-von-Schell-ebook/dp/B06WP692F8

  92. Respect says:

    The best ???? yea , probably the germans are ” best ” criminals of the history of mankind , evil genocidal mercenaries .

    They were defeated by the Russians , 80% of the whermacht casualties were in the eastern front . So the russians are better soldiers .

    Even to Napoleon it took less time to arrive to Moscow on horseback , than it took to the nazi exterminators to arrive to Moscow on their beloved panzers , maybe it took them longer because they were too busy exterminating russians and jews in their way .

    • Replies: @Rogue
    , @Kolo
  93. @Jake

    This is incoherent. In the future, please try to comment before you start drinking.

  94. anon[179] • Disclaimer says:

    Germans are a demoralized people today because they no longer have their own army. All their neighboring countries, France, UK, Russia, even Turkey, are allowed to have their own army, but not Germany. They have to rely on the US for protection. They are as good as eunuchs, that’s why Europe today is being invaded by Middle Eastern and African migrants, because Europe is now guarded by the French, would you trust a bunch of halal food eating surrender monkeys to guard your country? The US needs to bring back all our overseas forces, shut down our foreign bases, and allow Germany to have their own military forces again. It is the only way to save Europe.

    • Replies: @Respect
    , @Anon
  95. @anon

    They say history is written by the victors

    “They” and We really ought to stop saying that: what the victors wrote was not history in any real sense, it was a continuation of the propaganda used to gin up war in the first place.

    David Irving used the metaphor of a flywheel to explain how this works:

    -Propaganda is necessary at the inception of a war to fire up men to kill other men — otherwise an unnatural act;

    -Throughout the hot war, propaganda — lies by another name — are used (like crystal meth) to keep men fighting and to keep the home folks cheering them on and handing out white feathers to ‘cowards’

    -At war’s end, the flywheel is spinning so powerfully that no one has the ability or the will to burn his hand by stopping the machinery

    BUT, said Irving, 50 years on, emotions should have cooled and the quest for cool objectivity should take hold, to practice real history.

    Historian Thomas Fleming made much the same argument in a conversation with Brian Lamb focused on Fleming’s “New Dealer’s War.” Fleming said:

    “. . .[A]s you get older, you begin to look back on things, not through a haze of memory, . . .[especially] if you go into the business of being an historian, and you start to think, `Well, what was he [FDR] really like? What was the whole thing all about?’ Now that it’s become so far back that . . . now I think we’re just getting to the end of the influence of memory on history, and we’re getting into the pure history of World War II. I think this book is a start in that direction.

    Michael Kammen, my good friend of mine from Cornell, wrote a wonderful book called the “Mystic Chords of Memory,” in which he speculates on the impact of memory in history, and he maintains that it takes about 100 years for somebody . . . for a generation or a country to get to the point where they can look back on a gigantic experience, like World War II or the Civil War, objectively.”
    https://www.c-span.org/video/?164982-1/the-dealers-war


    I almost deleted the last phrase in that quote — “. . . or the Civil War . . .” because I wanted to focus on WWII, and to opine on how certain forces in US and world historiography work to sustain the “memory”, or propaganda-version of WWII — we know who those forces are.

    Then I thought about Charlottesville, and how that imbroglio encapsulates the project to sustain a distorted memory of the Civil War AND of World War II, and that is was and remains managed by the same people who surrounded FDR to produce the propaganda to gin up war (see i.e. Benjamin Ginsberg, How the Jews Defeated Hitler.

    “America’s Jews and establishment Protestants” have had a good run for their (propaganda) money, but it’s time to get down to real history.

    As the David Boaz of CATO Institute, a public policy think tank, said in another conversation with Thomas Fleming,

    “History is important when you are studying public policy. It’s important to know what worked and what didn’t, what might work in the future and it’s important to question some of the conventional wisdom about the past.”

    iow
    gigo

  96. Couldn’t help but think of the Army of Northern Virginia as a comparison.

  97. @Wally

    Italy was a German ally.

    — until it wasn’t.

    Those wily Italians have seldom been on the losing side of a war, by the simple expedient of changing sides.

    • Replies: @Z-man
  98. anon[107] • Disclaimer says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    I buy the arguments made here by Eric Zuezze

    whose ‘arguments’ are as sloppy as your misspelling of his name.

  99. Miro23 says:
    @Biff

    The introduction of the P-51 fighter in the middle of the war ensured the Germans lost air superiority.

    Rubbish. That plane came so late that it had zero impact. The high altitude B-29 did much more killing.

    The Germans had big problems with US and Russian fighters.

    Rudel recounted the situation (April 1945) in his book, “Stuka Pilot”:

    P238/239 – “American fighters do not attack us if they see that we are headed for the front and already engaged in aerial combat with the Ivans.”

    “We generally take off from Kummer airfield in the morning with four or five anti-tank aircraft, accompanied by twelve to fourteen FW190′s carrying bombs and at the same time acting as our escort. The enemy then waits for our appearance in overwhelming superiority. Rarely, if we have sufficient petrol, we are able to carry out a combined operation with all the formations attached to my command, and then the enemy in the air outnumbers us by only five to one! Yes indeed, our daily bread is earned with sweat and tears.”

    And on the question of the US vs. British military (viewed from the German side), Hitler had little regard for the Americans:

    (Conversation Nº 302, 28th August 1942, HTT) “The Americans are a completely unpredictable crowd. In a tight corner, the British are infinitely more courageous than they are – there’s no comparison! How they have the nerve to cast aspersions on the British passes my comprehension.” (99) “I don’t see much future for the Americans. In my view it’s a decayed country. And they have their racial problem, and the problem of social inequalities. Those were what caused the downfall of Rome, and yet Rome was a solid edifice that stood for something. Moreover the Romans were inspired by great ideas. Nothing of the sort in England today. As for the Americans, that kind of thing is non-existent. That’s why, in spite of everything, I like an Englishman a thousand times better than an American.”

  100. @Rich

    As far as I know, German intelligence did not think that Operation Uranus was about to happen. And the Red Army had given no indication to that date in the war that it was even capable of mounting such a deep penetration double envelopment.

    • Replies: @Rich
  101. First, Irving; then, Suvorov, now, Weber; who next, Carlo Mattogno? Well, in for a penny, in for a pound – the Unz Review is going full bore WW2 revisionist.

    • Replies: @Wally
  102. anon[107] • Disclaimer says:
    @Michael Kenny

    Wikipedia: “The Institute for Historical Review (IHR), founded in 1978, is an American organization best known for publishing articles and books promoting Holocaust denial”. That should be the end of the discussion.

    Absolutely.

    If wikipedia said it, it must be so.

  103. Karl says:
    @mark green

    15 mark green > reminder that heroism, sacrifice, valour and greatness were an inherent part of the Third Reich

    you should have been there to see the Liberation of Jerusalem in 1967. The Paratroopers made innumerable sacrifices to avoid damaging walls and stones

  104. @Wally

    After September 1943 Italians were seen as traitors and Italian military personnel captured by the Germans and sent to work in Germany was treated quite badly (e.g. denied shelter during Allied air raids, also a few massacres during the closing stages of the war).

  105. Karl says:
    @anon

    64 anon[179] > Germans are demoralized today because Jews run their media and academia

    Apparently, Germans were born to be steam-rollered

    RonUnz put real money on the table to buy his own medium. What’s stopping the Germans?

  106. anon[179] • Disclaimer says:
    @Chris Mallory

    The American people would have been better off if no Germans had been allowed to immigrate.

    On the contrary, America owes much of its prosperity today to its German immigrants, who as a group are the most honest and hard working lot. German immigrants formed the backbones of America’s farms and industries. In fact, Germans saved the entire West by giving us Protestantism. Without Protestantism, the West would’ve collapsed under the English with their hypocrisy and arrogance, the French with their debauchery and cowardice, the Catholics with their corruption, the Russians with their thuggery and drunkenness, and the Jews with their greed and moral depravity.

  107. Respect says:
    @anon

    Demoralized germans ? , well the germans are crushing economically all the countries of the EU in the benefit of Germany , if they had a good army they would be occupying militarily all Europe again .

    Even without a good army Germany contributed to the Yugoslavian and Ucranian disasters .

    Germany triggered WWII which caused more than 50 million deaths in Europe . Germans have been mercenaries in all armies , in all european wars since the Roman Empire , there must be something very sinister in the german soul .

    • Troll: Rurik
  108. @Johnny Rico

    Who is max Weber? Why should I read him? Outcome of that war and historical data speak clearly. Whatever you read however won’t cure you.

  109. @Jake

    Russia won that war because it was Soviet Russia. However I do agree that great patriotic war played important role in further problems. Time, resources and best people were lost which did not allow enough time to further Soviet project. Stalin health deteriorated and we got Kruschev. Than the rot set it. Hence yes, that war seems to create lots of long term issues which could have been solved and overcome with adequate leadership.

  110. PeterMx says:
    @German_reader

    Those massacres were in retaliation for partisans (civilians without uniforms) killing unsuspecting German soldiers. The same thing happened in Greece, but most of all the USSR. Like the American’s behavior in Vietnam, partisan warfare makes the war bloody and dirty.

    That’s why France was spared much worse than it suffered. Most French cooperated with their German occupiers because like in any occupation, they had no choice. When plain clothed civilians kill occupying soldiers, there will be retaliation and the “Free French” were not very active until towards the end of the war I believe. Instead, many French detested the Americans and British for the massacres and destruction they brought upon French cities and spit upon the captured American soldiers when the Germans had them paraded thru Paris in 1944. They may have also been aware of the raping of French women by American soldiers upon landing at Normandy.

  111. “Even during the final weeks of the war, when the outlook was gloomy indeed, Hitler’s men continued to battle with astonishing verve — as a Soviet intelligence report of March 1945, acknowledged: “Most German soldiers realize the hopelessness of their country’s situation after the January advances, though a few still express faith in German victory”

    If the German officer and soldier were so smart they would have realized that the war for them was over by early 1943.The tide had turned and it was the beginning of the end for them and Germany.

    I guess they really believed in their propaganda and it cost them dearly. The Germans built their army based on attack and offense while other countries based their armies on defense. The attacker almost always has the advantage in the beginning. Imagine being sucker punched and having to save your health and life.

    The stupid Germans should have stayed home and taken care of business. They should have attempted to make their brand of socialism a shinning example to the rest of the world.

  112. @German_reader

    Interesting. In Romania, I learned that Romanian POWs had the highest casualty rate of any nationality during WW1 in German captivity. I wonder if the feeling that Romania “betrayed” Germany by joining the Entente (it had been secretly signed the Triple Alliance) played a role in this.

  113. DFH says:

    The German soldiers of World War II have often been portrayed, both during the war and in the decades since, as simple-minded, unimaginative and brutish. Hollywood movies and popular U.S. television shows have for years contrasted confident, able and “cool” American GIs with slow-witted, cynical and cruel Germans.

    Is this true? Growing up in England, the conventional wisdom (including from the generation that fought in the war) was always that the Germans were better soldiers than the British, and certainly than the Americans. I don’t recall ever having heard German soldiers described as incompetent.

    • Agree: Bill jones
    • Replies: @Anon
  114. Wally says:
    @Respect

    said:
    “Germany triggered WWII which caused more than 50 million deaths in Europe .”

    That’s been easily refuted, pay attention:

    Introduction to HITLER’S WAR http://www.unz.com/article/introduction-to-hitlers-war/

    Did Britain initiate both world wars? https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=10458

    Responsibility for WW2 https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7544

    Who started bombing civilians first: Germany or Great Britain? Britain. https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=8172

    Operation Barbarossa Was A Preventive Attack https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7999

    Debate here if you have the nerve:
    http://www.codoh.com

  115. @PeterMx

    Those massacres were in retaliation for partisans

    No, I meant killings of Italian prisoners in Germany near the end of WW2. I’m too lazy to look it up, but I’ve read of a few such cases.

  116. DFH says:
    @anon

    In fact, Germans saved the entire West by giving us Protestantism. Without Protestantism, the West would’ve collapsed under the English with their hypocrisy and arrogance, the French with their debauchery and cowardice, the Catholics with their corruption, the Russians with their thuggery and drunkenness, and the Jews with their greed and moral depravity.

    ????? The Reformation was terrible for Germany. Germany spent the next three centuries in political and (relative) demographic decline as a playground for foreign powers.

  117. @German_reader

    The 1943 war film, Sahara, starring Humphrey Bogart, features a motley crew of American and British soldiers in Libya in 1942, as they retreat from the German advance. In turn, they pick up an Italian POW (who was captured by a Sudanese Muslim working for the Brits) and a German officer. It’s a pretty good film, all told, but they really play up the differences between the Italian – who turns out to be a good Catholic – and the German, who’s a fanatical Nazi, of course. The Italian ends up insulting the Fuhrer and gets killed for his trouble.

  118. denk says:
    @Carlton Meyer

    “The men the American people admire most extravagantly are the greatest liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth.”

    For those who have been fed bullshit since birth, they’d throw up if you give them honey…….

    Here’s a text book case ….

    The murkkans’ Indian cousins fed them cow dungs, about ‘Chinese hand behind coups in Nepal’

    I told them Indians were the real culprits, fully backed by evidence.

    Guess what ?

    They banned me from their site and called me names….
    and thanked their Indian cousins for feeding them exquisite cow dungs…

    ‘Thanks for enlightening me. I learn something new everyday. ‘

    ROFLMAO

    https://www.unz.com/article/blacks-with-brains-indians-leftists-show-downside-of-merit-based-immigration/#comment-2238195

  119. Neuday says:
    @Lefty

    We didn’t “break” Enigma; we captured a prototype in Poland.

    I had to stop reading A Man Called Intrepid once it became unavoidable that the British illegally leveraged FDR’s (((advisors))) to steer FDR into a war while we were declared neutral. Had we maintained our neutrality, perhaps the right side would’ve one; the side with better soldiers, better training, better technology, and a better history of fighting (((bolshevism))).

    The allies fought on the wrong side.

    • Replies: @Incitatus
  120. Wally says:
    @Henry's Cat

    Carlo Mattogno, a great idea for http://www.unz.com
    Germar Rudolf would also knock your socks off.
    Speaking of Carlo Mattogno:

    The Myth of the Extermination of the Jews : https://codoh.com/library/series/2217/?lang=en
    No (Zyklon-B) Holes, No Holocaust: https://codoh.com/library/series/1753/?lang=en
    Monumental Auschwitz study now in English : https://codoh.com/library/document/4460/?lang=en
    ‘Gypsy Holocaust?
    The Gypsies under the National Socialist Regime’
    : http://codoh.com/library/document/3239/
    The ‘Gas Chambers’ of Majdanek : https://codoh.com/library/document/937/?lang=en
    much, much more:

    https://codoh.com/search/?sorting=relevance&q=carlo+mattogno

    Don’t forget Mattogno & many others here:
    Holocaust Handbooks, Documentaries, & Videos

    http://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?main_page=1

    http://www.codoh.com

  121. @animalogic

    The only piston-engined fighter the U.S. continued in production after WWII was the F4U Corsair. The B-29 failed in its original mission of high-altitude precision bombing but succeeded as an incendiary bomb hauler after Curtiss LeMay changed strategies. Even then, the Superfortress had serious engine problems (a tendency to catch fire) not really solved until the introduction of the B-50.

  122. @Biff

    “The high altitude B 29 did much more killing”

    Yeah says an other expert on WW2 history, only problem is : The B29s did not fly in the european war zone, they were only put in battle over the pacific.

    Authentcjazzman “Mensa” qualified since 1973, airborne trained uS Army vet, and pro jazz artist.

  123. @anon

    Movies of the 1950s did not portray Germans especially badly. I can think of three: Rommel the Desert Fox, Sink the Bismarck, and The Sea Chase. From the 1960s on, however, Jewish domination of the entertainment industry has resulted in increasingly unfavorable and inaccurate portrayals of the German WWII military.

    • Replies: @Henry's Cat
  124. Interestingly, Soviet propaganda mocked Nazi Germany leadership, but never German soldiers. They were respected by rank-and-file Soviet military, as well. As a matter of fact, German soldiers and officers had a lot more respect for Soviet soldiers that for the soldiers of their Italian or Romanian allies.
    However, there are half-truths in this piece, and the narrative is often twisted. The main reason for spectacular German victory over France and other Western European countries was lack of courage and decisiveness of their adversaries. Polish army, despite shameful defection of Polish civil and military leadership to London, put up better fight against Germans than the bigger and better equipped French army.
    The Red Army won most of the war against Germany not just due to numbers, but due to courage of its soldiers and their willingness to self-sacrifice. Suffice it to say that Germany lost more soldiers trying to take Pavlov’s house in Stalingrad than conquering the whole France.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @utu
  125. I think this whole claim is a load of hooey that served everybody after the war was over. The defeated German generals got to claim some dignity and the allies got to pretend they fought hard and prevailed over supermen. After the surprise initial blitz phase of Barbarossa, very comparably equipped soviet units were consistently defeating larger german units. I do not trust the Dupoy analysis and think it’s a load of hand-waving.

    Comparisons with Americans are difficult because the Americans always fought with massive materiel advantages. And why shouldn’t they have? I’m sure Germans would have hunkered down and called in artillery barrages and airstrikes if they’d had the option.

  126. @anon

    Germans are a sheep like peoples, unable to live without a higher authority telling them what to do. They brought this to the US and helped destroy the freedoms our Founders left to us. A pox upon all Germans . We should have sank every ship bringing Germans to the US.

    • Troll: Josep
  127. @Wally Streeter

    The Germans copied tactics used against them by the Russians in the Brusilov offensive. Unfortunately the results were pretty much the same for the Kaiserschlacht and the Brusilov offensive; you could gain ground but only at the cost of substantial casualties.

  128. @Rich

    The fact that the Wehrmacht had an entire Army Group far to the east in the Caucuses at the same time it was fighting for Stalingrad didn’t help matters. Units were being asked to hold far too much defensive footage.

    • Replies: @Rich
  129. Rich says:
    @Johnny Rico

    The Fuhrer was, according to many historians, very overconfident in his ability to defeat the Soviets and in his belief in the inferiority of the Soviet forces. Stalingrad was a wasted effort that the Germans could easily have bypassed and reached the precious oil in the Caucasus Mountains. When it became obvious that the 6th Army was caught in a dangerous, no-win situation, Von Manstein came up with a brilliant plan for Paulus to break out of the quagmire he was trapped in, and save his army as an effective fighting force. Because of Hitler’s serious misunderstanding of the situation, and his specific orders to Paulus not to retreat, the Field Marshal stayed and ended any chance of German survival in the war.

  130. @anon

    ” Germans are demoralized today”

    Germans are most definitely not “demoralized” today, as they see themselves as leftist ” Herrenmenschen” all-knowing teutonic geniuses who are now called upon to instruct the world in leftist morality, starting with the US, in the workings of true humanism : Open borders, unlimited immigration, adopting socialism, etc etc, in all of the GS plans for world society.

    They are also incessantly demanding that the US abandon it’s electoral college system which prevented HC, their “Liebling” from ursurping the WH.

    They , the “gröessenwahnsinnigen” Germans are also relentlessly insisting that the US alter it’s gun laws so as to conform with the totally restrictive German codes.
    Apparently they think that they did indeed win the war, and they are now entitled to dictate internal policy to the rest of the globe, as according to their axiom of :

    “Am deutschen Wesen soll die Welt genesen”

    WC ‘ s “Boots or throat” observation is as pertinent today as it every was.

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” qualified since 1973, airborne trained us army vet, and pro Jazz artist.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Josep
    , @Anonymous
  131. Kirt says:
    @Dr. X

    You’re right. Size matters; so do numbers. To Stalin is often attributed the saying “Quantity has a quality all its own”.

    • Replies: @Henry's Cat
  132. @German_reader

    You really love to hug your chains, don’t you?

    • Replies: @JackOH
  133. @PeterMx

    ” They may have also been aware of the raping of French women by American soldiers upon landing in Normandy”

    This is a bloody atrocious lie, and you are a lying POS. American soldiers did not rape any women at Normandy, and I do not give a shit as to what kind of false propaganda you can come up with.

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” qualified since 1973, airborne trained uS Army vet, and pro Jazz artist.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Chris Bridges
  134. @Chris Mallory

    You are the only one here who sees things as they actually are and have been. Fact is the Germans and their authority worshiping mindset have played a major role in the decline and desintegration of American society, starting with their worship of professors, which has led to a situation in which these marxist shit-talkers have destroyed the entire US education system and transformed almost all US universities into marxist indoctrination camps, and because of the german authority-worshiping mindset which prevails throughout all of US society, parents and contributors to US universities are hesitant and even terrified to call these leftist MFs out and to publically expose them for what they are and what they are doing to destroy the fabric of US society.
    Germans worship all of the most odious scoundrels of society : Professors, Judges, Attorneys, Journalists, Shrinks, Clergy, etc, etc.

    AJM

    • Replies: @anon
    , @daniel le mouche
  135. Rogue says:
    @Jake

    You really do appear to be stung over this whole WASP thing …

  136. Rogue says:
    @Jake

    You said nothing about WASPS. Why not? Are you losing your edge?

    • Replies: @Cleburne
  137. @utu

    The Soviets in the end (actually from the middle of the war) absolutely bested the Germans strategically. You may have all the usual (and fake) excuses as General Frost, Soviet numerical superiority (as if it was only Germans fighting on the East Front), etc. etc.
    The Soviets had their share of technological surprises as the advanced tanks, as well as MLRSs and air to air missiles.

  138. Z-man says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Granted the end of the war for Italy wasn’t a shining example of it’s very long history but they did lose the war. They made a deal with the Allies to get slightly better terms than the Germans, but that’s about it. If Hitler had been assassinated in ’44 the Germans would have done the same thing.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  139. @Varenik

    Boot is a full neocon asshole, true, but on the other hand this is a Jew telling you the German was the best troop.

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
    • Replies: @Jon Halpenny
    , @anon
  140. @Varenik

    “Lost me with Max Boot … ”

    Me too. I did finish the article, and liked it, but my stomach turned sour after coming across the name of that war-loving soft-boy.

  141. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    Germany has an army. Check your facts. Just because it’s part of the NATO unified command doesn’t mean it doesn’t have an army.

  142. The Scalpel says: • Website

    I think this article can be summarized as follows:

    “German soldiers were better because lots of people I just mentioned said so.”

    There is almost no quantitative analysis to support the author’s claims. Admittedly studying this question in an objective manner is almost impossible due to it’s retrospective nature and the numerous variables involved.

    • Replies: @L.K
  143. Anon[370] • Disclaimer says:

    German armed forces communique, issued on May 9, 1945: “In the end the German armed forces succumbed with honor to enormous superiority.

    The German Armed forces had superiority when they started the war and invaded other lands. The superiority was lost due to gradual defeat, not by an all-time overwhelming superior opposing force. In each of major offensive operations of Red Army Germans lost from 0,1 to 1,0 mln KIA and POW.

    Loyal to his oath, the German soldier’s performance in a supreme effort for his people can never be forgotten.

    Each German soldier gave an oath personally to Adolf Hitler. Such oath is ominous as well as his ‘supreme effort’ in war crimes and genocide that should never be forgotten. Participation in WW2 is a stain on honor of any German family who had Nazi or Wehrmacht grandpas.

    To the last, the homeland supported him with all its strength in an effort entailing the heaviest sacrifices.

    Even more sacrifice was forced by ‘homeland’ by unwilling other nations, who were sent to labor camps and used as slaves. Such heaviest sacrifices are human sacrifices of inhumane Nazi regime, that means entire German nation posessed by Nazi.

    The unique performance of the front and homeland will find its final recognition in a later, just judgment of history.

    The German manhood and entire German nation will forever live in infamy. Any reasonable historian will read about their performance with disgust.

    The enemy, too, will not deny his respect for the achievements and sacrifices of German soldiers on land, at sea, and in the air.

    No respect at all, the Germans should be portrayed only as savages or ridiculized for believing the Nazi crap.

    We find rather strange to find here an apology for Nazi German Soldiers, that had all sworn loyalty to Hitler and saluted each other with Nazi salute. Even if there were no Holocaust, the German army would be recognized primarily for its atrocities and war crimes, not for any honest deed. Is that because Nazism is still a part of the West, and Westerners recognize if as less alien than USSR that saved Europe and entire humanity?

  144. Rich says:
    @Diversity Heretic

    Absolutely correct. The attributes that brought Adolf Hitler to power, were the same attributes that caused him to make so many poor decisions during the war. As the old saying goes “Hindsight is 20/20″, but whenever I read about the war, it appears Hitler made far too many extremely poor decisions that led to the destruction of Germany. Had the Germans secured the oil in the Caucasus, it’s very possible that they would have been able to stretch the war out much longer and eventually come to some kind of peace agreement that prevented the rape and destruction their people were forced to endure.

  145. @Respect

    There really is no end to you ignorant fools, is there?

  146. Anon[370] • Disclaimer says:
    @AnonFromTN

    They were respected by rank-and-file Soviet military

    They were not respected as decent human beings or honest rivals. After USSR had learned about German-inflicted genocide and Plan Ost, the motto was only ‘Kill a german’. Only a military capability of Germans was recognized and never underestimated.

    From a Simonov’s poem: “As long as you see a German – kill him at once”
    From a popular song: “And no one would blame you if you killed even more Germans”

    Please do not confuse mild treatment of German POWs as respect. All of them were provided with food and medical help to the same extent as the locals, only because of kind nature of Soviet people.

  147. Mr. Anon says:
    @Zimriel

    Agreed. A Bridge Too Far was a very good movie, and was faithful to the book by Cornelius Ryan. Ryan also wrote The Longest Day, which was also a good book, though the movie wasn’t very good. The Battle of the Bulge was complete garbage; it ostensibly was about a real historical event but was just a fictional pastiche of war-movie cliches. It had about as much to do with the actual history of the Battle of the Bulge as The Untouchables had to do with the actual history of organized crime in Chicago.

  148. utu says:
    @AnonFromTN

    The Red Army won most of the war against Germany not just due to numbers, but due to courage of its soldiers and their willingness to self-sacrifice.

    In the first phase of the war on the Eastern front the Red Army soldiers were quite willing to surrender. Having the barrier troops behind their backs the willingness to self-sacrifice was greatly increased. How many soldiers were killed by the barrier troops nobody really knows. The number of executed after rudimentary legal proceedings is wave above 100,000. In Stalingrad alone 13,000 soldiers were executed for insufficient willingness to self-sacrifice.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  149. @Kirt

    I’ve heard the saying but not ascribed to Stalin, but to an unnamed Soviet general.

  150. utu says:
    @German_reader

    Massacre of the Acqui Division

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_the_Acqui_Division

    But it is more complicate then it seems. I also heard of killing of Italians soldiers on the Eastern front.

  151. Mr. Anon says:

    I don’t quite get what windmill this article is tilting against. Does anybody seriously think that the Wehmarcht was not a formidable fighting force, or that german soldiers, airmen, and sailors were push-overs? It was a byword among the WWII generation that the Germans were a brave, smart, and capable enemy. This is reflected in the books of the 50s, 60s, and 70s many of which were sold to WWII vets and their families through the Military Book Club. Even the movies of that era portrayed Germans as being good soldiers, and often as being real human beings. The evolution of the german soldier into a cartoon villain seemed, to me at least, to have happened later – in the 1980s or so, and primarily for the consumption of a younger generation that was more remote from the events of WWII.

    • Replies: @anon
  152. utu says:
    @German_reader

    The glowing tone of admiration in this piece is also irritating and will certainly provoke many commenters into pointing out German crimes.
    Really pointless article.

    Good points except it is not pointless. Articles like this one are necessary and they still do not counterbalance the opposite one side narrative you get daily.

  153. @Diversity Heretic

    Another good one is The One That Got Away: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0050803/

    Its star, Hardy Krueger, had been a member of the Hitler Youth.

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
  154. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Authenticjazzman

    I have nothing against people of German descent but here’s a historical fact about north west German immigrants to the US.

    Beginning in the 1640s and not ending till the outbreak if WW1 made ocean travel unsafe, the city jail and prisons of other the city and province state of Hamburg Germany emptied out the jails and prisons every year and sent them to America.

    Our university system is based on the reforms of the German universities in some of the various independent German states in the 1820s. Prior to that, university research in science and technology was pure, with no thought of practical applications. The Germans in the north wanted to develop industry to compete with the more advanced S Germany, France and especially England.

    Personally, I think it was a great idea.
    Later, the Kaiser created the Max Planck institutes & society one of the premo research operations.

    They’re not all bad. The conformity is good if they are conforming to good orders, bad if they are confirming to bad rules, just like everyone else

    The German idea was use the universities for practical research. Later, after unification the Kaiser set up the Max PlPersonally, I think it’s the most wonderful idea since 400 AD monks set up their libraries which grew into universities.

  155. peterAUS says:
    @German_reader

    The strengths of the German army in WW2 (Auftragstaktik etc.) have long been recognized, this isn’t exactly new ground.

    Yup.

  156. Heymrguda says:

    Very true, with a few qualifications. The Germans continued to inflict losses on us right up to the closing hours of the war.

    Their technology was not superior in all areas however. USA’s transport, both air and land, was was superior. We had the incomparable c-47 Dakota and Curtiss c-46 commando, joined by the douglas DC-4 and Lockheed constellation toward the end of the war. On the ground we had the iconic Willis keep as well as the dodge Power wagon and studebaker “deuce and a half” with driven front axles and tandem rear wheels. Thousands of these were provided to the USSR and while maybe not winnning the war for them, greatly helped the red army’s mobility in the last two years of the war. With the exception of the c-46 they all were, of course, eventually copied by the USSR.

  157. Mr. Anon says:
    @Avery

    I agree. It is not enough to fight well, one should also fight for a good reason. And conquering other people’s countries in order to gratify the ego of a tyrant is not a good reason.

  158. utu says:
    @Authenticjazzman

    This is a bloody atrocious lie, and you are a lying POS.

    In term of raping Americans were worse than Germans. Americans raped people they liberated, Russians raped women they liberated and women they conquered and Germans did care about raping women they conquered that much. The discipline in Wehrmacht and SS was simply much higher.

    About France wiki says this:

    U.S. troops committed 208 rapes and about 30 murders in the department of Manche.

    130 of the 153 troops disciplined for rape by the Army were African American.[11] Military courts sentenced African American soldiers to more severe punishment than white American soldiers:[12] U.S. forces executed 29 soldiers for rape, 25 of them African American.

    reported in Taken by Force: Rape and American GIs in Europe in World War II his estimate that 14,000 rapes were committed by U.S. soldiers in France, Germany and the United Kingdom between 1942 and 1945.[16][17] More specifically, Lilly estimated that U.S. servicemen committed around 3,500 rapes in France between June 1944 and the end of the war.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    , @Incitatus
  159. peterAUS says:
    @animalogic

    Yup.
    Understand two up and be capable/ready to assume one up.

  160. There’s a book out there, which I’ve never gotten around to buying, called Why the Germans Lose at War: The Myth of German Military Superiority by Kenneth Macksey (originally published in 1996), but here’s a brief synopsis: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/10864776-why-the-germans-lose-at-war

    • Replies: @L.K
    , @byrresheim
  161. Josep says:
    @Authenticjazzman

    Apparently they think that they did indeed win the war, and they are now entitled to dictate internal policy to the rest of the globe

    If I’m not mistaken, doesn’t (post-Christian) America do that?
    Last time I checked, most Germans were taught that they lost the war.

  162. But we won’t forget that the real aim of Nazi State was to win Soviets – and to bleed together with Russians and the others, too. It was founded by the western deep state, and many things were arranged in order to enable this scenario: in firs years of the war Germans had much more modern arms, better training, better organized army and services, and better living conditions for their soldiers. US and England were playing as if they were fighting against Nazi, but in fact they didn’t – they waited Germans and Russians to bleed enough; maybe even helped Germany via “neutral” countries.

    And than it is much easier to fight, having Big Buddies in own back.

    • Replies: @L.K
  163. anon[115] • Disclaimer says:
    @Chris Mallory

    Germans are today the de facto rulers of Western Europe through the EU. The only reason the EU is so dysfunctional is because they are too guilt ridden to do what they know needs to be done, and as such allow the undisciplined, muddled-brain French and Belgians to have too much say. It’s no accident Germany is the richest country in Western Europe today that has a population of over 10m, despite having no colonial empire or natural resources to extract wealth from, and having to absorb the huge economic impact of reunification with E. Germany.

  164. anon[115] • Disclaimer says:
    @Authenticjazzman

    The WASP elites who are selling out the country are vastly not of German origin, while the deplorables in rust belt America are. The WASP elites who are in bed most tightly with the Jewish cabal today are the English. Jews married into the English aristocracy in large numbers after the industrial revolution, when the English landed gentry saw their wealth plummeting as their serf farmers left the farm in drove to go work in factories. That’s why Churchill went to war against Hitler.

    • Replies: @DFH
    , @Josep
  165. @Christopher Chantrill

    What a great word! Kipling’s Gods of Copybook headings condensed into one.

  166. @james wilson

    He is not just a Jew, he is a Russian Jew. He holds no concept of pride, loyalty or gratitude to the land of his birth and to the Army which saved many of his tribe.

    • Agree: Z-man
  167. herkimer says:
    @Anon

    I gather in Belgium the occupying German troops were far better behaved in WWII than in WWI. I would guess that manners had softened despite everything between the wars. Or perhaps it was simply because there were far fewer troops of farmer/peasant background by 1940.

  168. anon[115] • Disclaimer says:
    @james wilson

    Jews secretly worship the Nazis, they share the same authoritarian, fascist impulse. If they weren’t the unfortunate target, they would’ve supported the Nazis wholeheartedly.

    • Replies: @Varenik
  169. anon[115] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mr. Anon

    The evolution of the german soldier into a cartoon villain seemed, to me at least, to have happened later – in the 1980s or so, and primarily for the consumption of a younger generation that was more remote from the events of WWII.

    Which just happened to coincide with the rise of the Jews in our media, academia and Hollywood.

  170. turtle says:
    @jim jones

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Americans

    > With an estimated size of approximately 44 million in 2016, German Americans are the largest of the ancestry groups reported by the US Census Bureau in its American Community Survey. The group accounts for about one third of the total ethnic German population in the world.

    Do the names Eisenhauer (anglicized sp. Eisenhower) or Nimitz ring a bell?

    The U.S. rounded up its Japanese heritage citizens and put them in concentration camps for the duration. Americans of German heritage were drafted, and sent to fight against the land of their ancestors, which most did willingly, my own father (actually a volunteer) among them.

    Without its German heritage population, the U.S. would have fielded a much weaker military in WWII.

  171. tamo says:
    @Diversity Heretic

    I’m not talking about equipment here, Yes, Japanese soldiers had far inferior weapons than Germans or Americans. Since the title of the article says German soldiers were best. I’m ONLY talking about the fanatical martial spirit of a dedicated individual soldier which Japanese soldiers so much believed in that they gladly made ultimate sacrifices. Surrender was not an option for them. They only surrendered when the emperor ordered them to do so. Also in many battles such as Bulge or Bastogne, Germans were
    eventually outmaneuvered by Americans and couldn’t mount meaningful counter attacks against Americans.

  172. L.K says:
    @дулебг

    Your entire post is nonsense, fiction…

  173. Dan Hayes says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Thorfinnsson:

    The reason the 1945 Germans didn’t crack up like their 1918 forefathers was that they were incessantly admonished to never repeat earlier behavior.

    These admonitions were over and over and over repeated! The results were old men and children ferociously fighting to the last moment in the 1945 Battle of Berlin.

  174. L.K says:
    @Henry's Cat

    It’s a joke of a book, propaganda…

  175. EugeneGur says:
    @anon

    This article simply puts forth a different take on the military capability of Germany. It says nothing about politics or their cause.

    Yes, it does, even in its choice of words. The words used in the article such as ‘achievements”, “sacrifices”, and “respect” in the normal human mind relate much less to the pure professional skills than to the purpose, for which these skills were employed.

    And by the way, the reason for their loss has have more to do with the purpose and politics than with the military capabilities as such.

  176. DFH says:
    @anon

    The WASP elites who are in bed most tightly with the Jewish cabal today are the English. Jews married into the English aristocracy in large numbers after the industrial revolution, when the English landed gentry saw their wealth plummeting as their serf farmers left the farm in drove to go work in factories.

    ‘Large numbers’ is an overstatement. The English aristocracy became poorer because of the removal of the Corn Laws and later inheritance tax, not because of anyhing to do with ‘serf farmers’ (who hadn’t existed in England for several hundred years) leaving the fields.

    That’s why Churchill went to war against Hitler.

    But Churchill didn’t go to war against Hitler. Firstly because Hitler declared war on Britain’s ally, and secondly because Churchill wasn’t in the government at the time.

  177. turtle says:
    @Chris Mallory

    Yes, we could definitely have done without the noxious influence of all these folks:

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_German_Americans

  178. Respect says:

    Read the book :

    Soldaten , Protokolle von Kämpfen ,Töten und Sterben .

    by Sönke Neitzel and Harald Welzer

    S. Fischer Verlag GMBH , Frankfurt am Main , 2011

    It is about the conversations of thousands of german war prisoners of WWII in British military jails that were secretly recorded by the British , and published in the above mentioned book in 2011 . Many german soldiers were criminal , and proud of it .

    • Replies: @L.K
  179. Rogue says:
    @EugeneGur

    Nobody is dissing the sterling efforts of the Red army, but to suggest the Red army was man for man, pilot for pilot, tank crew for tank crew, gunner for gunner and, yes, infantryman for infantryman the equal of or better than the Wehrmacht, is talking bullshit.

    The Germans weren’t supermen and the Reds weren’t crap. We know. But the average German serviceman was better than his allied counterpart, be they Soviet, American or British.

    But by all means, live in your delusions.

    • Replies: @EugeneGur
  180. L.K says:
    @The Scalpel

    scalpel

    There is almost no quantitative analysis to support the author’s claims

    Pure BS.
    US Colonel Trevor N. Dupuy, associates and successors did exactly that; over decades they have compiled a huge and very detailed database for many WW2 battles.
    The following quote from Colonel Dupuy, mentioned in the above article, was based exactly on such analysis:

    On average, he concluded, 100 German soldiers were the equivalent of 120 American, British or French soldiers, or 200 Soviet soldiers. “On a man for man basis,” Dupuy wrote, “German ground soldiers consistently inflicted casualties at about a 50 percent higher rate than they incurred from the opposing British and American troops under all circumstances [emphasis in original]. This was true when they were attacking and when they were defending, when they had a local numerical superiority and when, as was usually the case, they were outnumbered, when they had air superiority and when they did not, when they won and when they lost.”

    Swedish military historian N. Zetterling, in a detailed study on the Normandy campaign, concluded the Germans still maintained a considerable efficiency superiority over the Western Allies by the summer 44, even though, as he shows, on avg, the German forces in the West were inferior to those deployed on the Eastern front.

    • Replies: @The Scalpel
  181. szopen says:
    @Dr. X

    Wrong. Wehrmacht units carried the atrocities from the start of the war in 1939, murdering Polish citizens and Polish PoWs in hundreds. Moreover, POlish Home Army Intelligence was routinely capturing letters from the German soldiers and from those captured letters it is known, that the atrocities committed were common knowledge among the soldiers.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_of_the_Wehrmacht#Mass_murder_of_Polish_civilians

    • Replies: @L.K
    , @Wally
    , @Dr. X
  182. @utu

    In term of raping Americans were worse than Germans. Americans raped people they liberated, Russians raped women they liberated and women they conquered and Germans did care about raping women they conquered that much. The discipline in Wehrmacht and SS was simply much higher.

    I detest rapists (especially war ones), but these claims are not supported by facts. It is true that US & British soldiers had behaved much better than Soviets, and I have no patience with Russians trying to defend this part of their warfare, not only in Germany, but also in Poland, Hungary etc.

    But Wehrmacht was no better, perhaps even worse on eastern front. Estimates for Soviet rapes in Germany and Austria range from several hundred thousand to 2 million. But, one has to have in mind that low figure of war babies (mostly product of rapes) in Russia, Ukraine,… is 700,000 & that there had been certainly millions of rapes of Soviet women, upper limit being perhaps 10 million.

    One can retain admiration for Wehrmacht as fighting force & not be willfully blinded to their atrocities.

  183. L.K says:

    M. Weber really should not have used the cheap Zionist publicist Max Boot.

    To mention this propagandist Boot in the same text as Dupuy is a disgrace.

    If Weber wanted to use a Jew, he should have just stuck to Martin van Creveld, at least the Israeli is a credible military historian.

    Possibly Weber wanted to use a guy who is pretty anti-German, which Zionist Max Boot is.

    • Replies: @Incitatus
  184. Rogue says:
    @Respect

    Try to stay objective. Your hyperbole gives it away that you’re emotionally responding …

    Nobody is suggesting that the Werhrmacht were a gang of boy scouts, happily singing Barney the Dinosaur songs at every opportunity.

    The article was about the fighting efficiency of the Werhmacht, nothing else.

  185. Dan Hayes says:
    @Henry's Cat

    Henry’s Cat:

    The One That Got Away is a great movie.

    If memory serves me there was one scene where the Brits sought to turn Krueger into an informer or otherwise expose him as a fabricator of war heroics. His response was that while exposure would make live unlivable with his fellow prisoners-of-war he nevertheless still had to live with himself – a very startling and moving scene! I believe that the last scene was a declaration that Krueger was lost in action after escaping back to Germany.

    I was unaware that Krueger was a Hitler Youth member. Now I know why he fit the part so well!

  186. Incitatus says:
    @utu

    “In term of raping Americans were worse than Germans. Americans raped people they liberated, Russians raped women they liberated and women they conquered and Germans did care about raping women they conquered that much. The discipline in Wehrmacht and SS was simply much higher.”

    The US executed 147 American soldiers for disciplinary offenses in WW2. Nazi Germany executed 20,000 to 22,000. Was that because Germans were better disciplined?

    • Replies: @utu
    , @byrresheim
  187. Respect says:
    @anon

    You seem to believe Hitler`s propaganda that germans are Ubermenschen and the rest of the world untermenschen , you german supremacist .

    French , Italian , Russian , English , Spanish , etc .. consider germans obsessive blockheads .

    Maybe the USA owes to german inmigrants , to german blood , a pathological bellicosity since the US has been at war for aproximateley 220 years out of its 242 years of existence .

  188. Cyrano says:

    I think we can all agree with the following statement: The Germans were the best soldiers of WW2 – too bad the Russians didn’t get the memo. Or even more plausible explanation is: The Russians did get the memo, but most of them being illiterate peasants – they didn’t know what to make out of it – so they kept fighting anyway. As Rodney Dangerfield used to say: “No respect”.

  189. Incitatus says:
    @Chris Mallory

    “Germans are a sheep like peoples, unable to live without a higher authority telling them what to do.”

    With due respect, generalities betray little more than limitations of those who believe them.

    It is equally possible the majority of German immigrants to the Midwest 1848-80 arrived because they were tired of being told what to do, and preferred hard work and their own farm to being cannon-fodder in the old country.

    Their contribution is no less than any who became American.

  190. JackOH says:
    @Epaminondas

    ” . . . [H]ug your chains . . . ”

    That’s one of the best phrases I’ve heard, Epaminondas. Hat’s off. It really calls for wider usage and more robust definition. “Chain-hugger” describes perfectly the hypocrites we endure in everyday life, and about whom we rail here. Y’know, the politician, the labor leader, the university professor or trustee, who, when cornered will say something like: “Y’know, I agree with you about X, absolutely. But, my hands are tied, I can’t say that publicly.” (No offense to German_reader, who I think makes good contributions here.)

    FWIW-I happen to not like the blanket, demonization of Germans during the Nazi period as ne plus ultra devils incarnate. Or any other ethnicities and races. It’s intemperate, and it sort of let’s our own side’s sons-of-bitches off the hook for their excesses. Just a thought, and I’m not sure I follow my own counsel all that well.

  191. L.K says:
    @Respect

    Hmm… why don’t you tell us all about these ‘hidden recording devices’ as they were available at the time? Joker.

    ‘Die verleumdete Armee. Wehrmacht und Anti-Wehrmacht-Propaganda’ by German hist. Dr. Post is a good antidote to the massive slandering propaganda the Wehrmacht has been subjected to by the victors as well as by the German Nestbeschmutzers…

    • Replies: @Respect
  192. Incitatus says:
    @Neuday

    “the side [WW2 Germany] with better soldiers, better training, better technology, and a better history of fighting (((bolshevism))).”

    Don’t forget to credit Ludendorff for giving Lenin $100 million and injecting him into Russia in 1917, essential in the creation of ((((bolshevism)))). You could say ((((bolshevism)))) was blowback for Eric’s stupidity.

    “The allies fought on the wrong side.”

    The Allies won, Einstein.

    • Replies: @Neuday
  193. Josep says:
    @anon

    As many of us know, WASP stands for “White Anglo-Saxon Protestant”. IIRC the original Anglo-Saxons came from Angles and Saxony, both of which are part of modern-day Germany. Not sure if that counts as “German origin”, but that’s just about it as far as I’m aware. I could be wrong, though.

  194. L.K says:
    @szopen

    yeah, wikipedia is a hell of a souce after all…

    You Poles were all angels right?

    Except you were NOT.

    Just a few forensic photos of the several thousand ethnic Germans murdered by Polish militiamen and regulars, including women and small children… some were murdered before the war broke out..

    http://www.jrbooksonline.com/polish_atrocities_p304-309.htm

    http://www.jrbooksonline.com/polish_atrocities_p297-303.htm

    http://www.jrbooksonline.com/polish_atrocities_p219-223.htm

    http://www.jrbooksonline.com/polish_atrocities_p224-229.htm

    • Replies: @DFH
    , @utu
  195. @Jon Halpenny

    Germany lost the production war against the UK by 1940, not counting Canada. Moscow was defended by British Empire tanks.

  196. Incitatus says:
    @anon

    “America owes much of its prosperity today to its German immigrants…”

    Agree, no less or more than many other immigrants.

    “[German immigrants] as a group are the most honest and hard working lot.”

    Really? Please support your assertion with facts and sources.

    “Germans saved the entire West by giving us Protestantism”

    Saved “the entire West” from what, Reverend? Mormons? Baptists? Jehovah’s Witnesses? Give us a hint.

    “Without Protestantism, the West would’ve collapsed under the English with their hypocrisy and arrogance, the French with their debauchery and cowardice, the Catholics with their corruption, the Russians with their thuggery and drunkenness, and the Jews with their greed and moral depravity.”

    Wow! Such a long list of moral indictments! Preaching to your flock? “Hypocrisy, arrogance, debauchery, cowardice, corruption, thuggery, drunkenness, greed and moral depravity”?

    Saving stupidity and hubris for yourself?

    • LOL: utu
    • Replies: @Wally
  197. L.K says:
    @German_reader

    Irritating to a disgusting Nestbeschmutzer such as yourself.

    • LOL: German_reader
  198. DFH says:
    @L.K

    Funny that your scepticism about the Holocaust and its propagandistic use immediately stops when it comes to Nazi propaganda

    • Replies: @L.K
  199. Anon[298] • Disclaimer says:
    @DFH

    Someone watched too many episodes of Hogan’s Heroes, hence this article.

  200. You Poles were all angels right?

    Actually we were and still are.

    Only six of us were evil.

  201. Wally says:
    @szopen

    What letters? We note that you do not /cannot show us these alleged “letters”.

    Imagine in a real / legit court of law where someone claims that there are letters which prove their point, but could not produce the actual letters. They would be laughed out of that court.

    Leave it to a Jew to cite Jew controlled Wikipedia.

    How Israel and Its Partisans Work to Censor the Internet :http://www.unz.com/article/how-israel-and-its-partisans-work-to-censor-the-internet/?highlight=wikipedia

    Zionist Wikipedia Editing Course : http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/139189

    More ‘holocau$t’ BS shot down in seconds.

    http://www.codoh.com

  202. Respect says:

    Napoleon started the invasion of Russia the 23 june 1812 , he arrives to Moscow and takes it by mid september 1812 , on horseback . By Christmas the french and their german ,polack , italian and european allies were expelled leaving behind about 800.000 dead .

    Hitler started the blitz krieg invasion of Russia the 22 june 1941 , with a lot of tanks and planes , he arrived at the doors of Moscow the 2 october 1941 ( oh , Napoleon horses were faster than the nazi panzers !!! ) .

    And the russians were fighting and beating the japanese in Mongolia , battle of Jaljin Gol ( Nomohan ) 11 may 1941 -16 sept 1941 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battles_of_Khalkhin_Gol

    The 5 december 1941 the russians start the counteroffensive against the germans at the doors of Moscow . The 7 january 1942 the german invaders are defeated at the doors of Moscow and repelled a couple of hundred kilometers .

    The blitz made a fizzzzzzzz , the superior race was not so superior after all

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @L.K
  203. Wally says:
    @Incitatus

    Incitatus’s people speak:

    “We reached the [Balfour] Declaration not by miracles, but through persistent propaganda, through unceasing demonstration of the life force of our people. We told the responsible authorities: We will establish ourselves in Palestine whether you like it or not. You can hasten our arrival or you can equally retard it. It is however better for you to help us so as to avoid our constructive powers being turned into a destructive power which will overthrow the world.”

    - World Zionist leader [1st President of Israël] Chaim Weizmann, speech in Jerusalem, December 1919.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Karl
  204. Wally says:
    @German_reader

    Hilarious! All talk.

    Your proof is where exactly?

    Nowhere, or you would have produced it.

    http://www.codoh.com

  205. Respect says:
    @L.K

    You are a filonazi , the german armies were criminals , evil , they wanted to kill all the slavic population west of the Urals to repopulate with germans ( Plan Ost ) , as well as the jews . They killed 17 million soviet civilians …. read the book . Of course there were microphones at the time , illiterate .

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost

    • Replies: @animalogic
  206. Varenik says:
    @anon

    “Jews secretly worship the Nazis”
    you’re an idiot.
    Those that like power like powerful men regardless their origin.
    Most Jews simply do not fit into your comfy and myopic worldview no matter how convinced you’re…

  207. Karl says:
    @Wally

    205 Wally > through unceasing demonstration of the life force of our people….. We will establish ourselves in Palestine whether you like it or not

    you highlighted the wrong words, Wally. I take the liberty to above-quote the operative, important words

    but go ahead and suck the dick of the Pelstinians. It will not save you nor save your posterity from future “truck of peace” attacks

  208. Respect says:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost

    German Plan Ost to exterminate ” inferior races ”

    Percentages of ethnic groups to be destroyed and/or deported to Siberia by Nazi Germany from future settlement areas.[15][16][3]

    Ethnic group / Nationality Population percent subject to removal

    Russians[17][16] 50–60% to be physically eliminated and another 15% to be sent to Western Siberia
    Estonians[3][18] almost 50%
    Latvians[3] 50%
    Czechs[16] 50%
    Ukrainians[16] 65%
    Belarusians[16] 75%
    Poles[16] 20 million, or 80–85%
    Lithuanians[3] 85%
    Latgalians[3] 100%

  209. Avery says:
    @Avery

    [• Troll: L.K]

    Schweinhund.

    Heil Hitler!
    Sieg Heil!

  210. Wally says:
    @Respect

    Only Zionist propaganda about Germans claims that Germans thought they were superior.

    Germany had no choice but to attack the communist USSR.

    Operation Barbarossa Was A Preventive Attack

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7999

    and:
    Introduction to HITLER’S WAR

    http://www.unz.com/article/introduction-to-hitlers-war/

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Anon
  211. L.K says:
    @Respect

    pfffhahahHAHAHAHAHA

    Thanks for the laugh!

    Respect( to what? imbecility? dishonesty?)

    And the russians were fighting and beating the japanese in Mongolia , battle of Jaljin Gol ( Nomohan ) 11 may 1941 -16 sept 1941

    Good grief! Khalkhyn Gol battles were from May – 16 September 1939, you idiot!

    Right after that, your Soviet heroes went on to invade Poland in 39, taking half of it…

    Later they went on to annex the Baltic states, invaded Finland, threatened Romania to annex more land, and blackmailed Germany, a country at war, until Germany decided to eliminate the Soviet threat.

  212. L.K says:
    @DFH

    Of course, of course…

    There were no German victims, only perpetrators…

    Anyway, the killing of ethnic German civilians in Poland did take place, fact.

    The propaganda is to deny it.

    National Socialist propaganda exaggerated the numbers, but the murders happened… and there is much better evidence for it than for most of the idiotic anti-German propaganda that we are endlessly fed.

    • Replies: @szopen
  213. TG says:

    True, but irrelevant.

    Amateurs talk tactics and professionals talk logistics.

    Or as Stalin is reported to have said, quantity has a quality all its own.

    I think Jerry Pournell once wondered why there was all this fascination with the German military, when they haven’t won a war since 1870.

    But we should not be smug. We now have a technically superb military – that is being squandered on pointless winless wars, and overextended, and worn down by shear numbers. Perhaps someday some future historian will say the same about us…

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Nick Diaz
  214. @tamo

    The German military during WWII agreed with you–they wished that they could inspire the same fanatical devotion in German troops that Japanese soldiers showed. But Germans weren’t Japanese. What the WWII German military could do better than any other was to take retreating troops, reorganize them and get them back into the line and performing relatively effectively. Some scratch unit of a couple of infantry regiments, a Panzer battalion and perhaps a Flak unit would be reorganized and stop some Soviet Guards Rifle division, British armored division, or an American airborne division cold (although not indefinitely). I don’t think the Japanese, however brave they were, showed a similar capability.

    • Replies: @tamo
  215. fnn says:

    Part of this phenomenon has to do with with the English (and American, to a somewhat lesser extent) upper class’ contempt for their respective working classes:

    https://www.counter-currents.com/2010/06/henry-williamson/

    Lest it be objected that Williamson was seeing Germany through rose colored glasses, very much the same description was given by the American journalist William Shirer, author of the perennially published basic anti-Nazi text The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, whose hatred of Hitler is beyond doubt:

    The young in the Third Reich were growing up to have strong and healthy bodies, faith in the future of their country and in themselves and a sense of fellowship and camaraderie that shattered all class and economic and social barriers. I thought of that later, in the May days of 1940, when along the road between Aachen and Brussels one saw the contrasts between the German soldiers, bronzed and clean cut from a youth spent in the sunshine on an adequate diet, and the first British war prisoners, with their hollow chests, round shoulders, pasty complexions and bad teeth-tragic examples of the youth that England had neglected so irresponsibly in the years between the wars. (Shirer, p. 256)

    • Replies: @Henry's Cat
    , @Miro23
  216. utu says:
    @Incitatus

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/book-claims-us-soldiers-raped-190-000-german-women-post-wwii-a-1021298.html

    Gebhardt believes that members of the US military raped as many as 190,000 German women by the time West Germany regained sovereignty in 1955, with most of the assaults taking place in the months immediately following the US invasion of Nazi Germany.

    Father Alois Schiml from Moosburg wrote on Aug. 1, 1945: “By order of the military government, a list of all residents and their ages must be nailed to the door of each house. The results of this decree are not difficult to imagine. … Seventeen girls or women … were brought to the hospital, having been sexually abused once or several times.”

  217. @Authenticjazzman

    Yet more inane commentary by the Mensa genius, now showing himself to be of Anglo-Saxon stock, and typical, yes invariably typical are these Anglo-Saxons, who all pride themselves on being ‘just right’–jolly, fair, gritty, courageous… blah blah. And you people are Germanic yourselves, ignoramus! But the Mensa genius always knows all, hell, I think you even lived briefly in Germany, or were you just passing through? Germans destroyed the universities? Perhaps you confuse Germans with the Yiddish.

    • Replies: @Authenticjazzman
  218. @Philip Owen

    Both Japan and Germany were completely starved of oil after their initial gambits failed. In both cases the whole blitz thing was predicated on massively ramping up oil supply inside a year via conquest. In both cases, if they didn’t score oil super soon, total defeat was certain in any case. Germany would have folded inside of two years if they had not tried Barbarossa and made a run at Baku.

    Talking about Axis production figures is almost irrelevant. The whole thing was about oil. They were totally starved for the stuff, which is no way to fight a war. The USA and the USSR were gushing with oil at the time. Of course the Axis had mediocre production figures, and also a lot of horses moving things. They had no diesel and gasoline. That was the whole point of the war in the first place.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  219. utu says:
    @L.K

    Poles do not like to talk about it but there was an action in the first days of WWII when 10,000-15,000 Germans mostly belonging intelligentsia were arrested in the first days of Sept. 1939 in Pomerania and Posen area and they were evacuated (on foot) further East. In the process many died of exhaustion and some were killed. I presume that there must be some reports by survivors of these marches. What are the exact numbers I do not know.

    • Replies: @szopen
  220. anon[211] • Disclaimer says:

    A lot of attention is given to the Holocaust compared to Generalplan Ost. Is Generalplan Ost a well established and supported fact of history? Do we know that this is what the German leadership had every intention of carrying out, and would have carried out had they won?

    Or, is it some hairbrained idea by some Nazi leaders that would have never had general support and wouldn’t have actually transpired, or would only have transpired in some highly diluted form?

    Let us remember the Morgenthau Plan the
    Hooten Plan and Germany Must Perish. Also, put “Kalergi Plan” in a search engine. In short, there were many “Generalplan Ost”s that were designed for the German people, mostly by Jews, and they (mostly) didn’t transpire after the war, although they are arguably in full swing now with the migrant crisis.

    Just because someone drafted a plan for something, even someone prominent, doesn’t mean it would have occurred.

    • Replies: @Avery
    , @Wally
  221. Alfa158 says:
    @Lefty

    Enigma machines were sold commercially before the war to businesses. The Poles started trying to figure out how to break the code system, and passed their research and commercial Engima machines on to the British when they surrendered. The Germans military had changed the wheels though, so the British had only limited success until they captured a newer machine and code books. The effectiveness of Turing’s computer at Bletchley has been exaggerated in the winning side’s folklore. Even after capturing a current machine the British would lose their ability to decode when the Enigma machines were modified. The decoding was valuable when it was there, but in practice was not 100% successful.

  222. Incitatus says:
    @L.K

    “M. Weber really should not have used the cheap Zionist publicist Max Boot…Possibly Weber wanted to use a guy who is pretty anti-German, which Zionist Max Boot is.”

    Thought the same thing. A month after 9/11/01 here’s what “influential author and military historian” Max wrote:

    “Once Afghanistan has been dealt with, the United States should turn its attention to Iraq. It will probably not be possible to remove quickly without a US invasion and occupation — though it will hardly require half a million men, since Saddam Hussein’s army is much diminished since the Gulf War, and the US will probably have plenty of help from Iraqis, once trust that it intends to finish the job this time. Once Hussein is deposed, an American led, international regency in Baghdad, to go along with the one in Kabul, should be imposed.” -Max Boot ‘The Case for American Empire,’ Weekly Standard, 15 October 2001

    Iraq? That certainly worked out well. Never fear:

    “We are an attractive empire, the one everyone wants to join.” -Max Boot 2003

    Golly L.K. Why would Weber use toxic Boot as a source? Do you think he was cynically using Boot to praise Nazi Germany, shaming Boot with out-of-context use, and baiting readers to react? Win-win for what is otherwise a pretty juvenal [‘who’s the best soldier’] article?

    Weber doesn’t mention a major distinction for German soldiers. Their sworn allegiance wasn’t to Germany. It was to Adolf Hitler. A demi-god, a feudal lord.

    “I swear to God this sacred oath that to the Leader of the German Empire and people, Adolf Hitler, supreme commander of the armed forces, I shall render unconditional obedience and that as a brave soldier I shall at all times be prepared to give my life for this oath.” [„Ich schwöre bei Gott diesen heiligen Eid, daß ich dem Führer des Deutschen Reiches und Volkes, Adolf Hitler, dem Oberbefehlshaber der Wehrmacht unbedingten Gehorsam leisten und als tapferer Soldat bereit sein will, jederzeit für diesen Eid mein Leben einzusetzen.“]

    An oath you might expect Germans to swear to Römisch-Deutscher König Friedrich I. Barbarossa von Hohenstaufen in 1189 prior to departing on the Third Crusade [poor fellow fell off his horse in the River Saleph, drowned without ordering Germany destroyed (unlike Adolf)].

    The oath was suggested by Werner von Blomberg and Walther von Reichenau 2 Aug 1934, the day Hindenburg cashed in his chips. Doubtless they expected big treats from the top dog. Didn’t work out well. Werner was bounced for marrying his second wife Erna, porn-photo model and daughter of a prostitute (Hitler, embarrassed at being at the wedding, ordered annulment, dismissed Werner).

    Reichenau (who actually – believe it or not – wore a monocle) had a more glorious fate. Well – sort of. Promoted Field Marshall Nov 1941 to replace Rundstedt in Russia, he (an athlete) suffered a stroke running cross-country 14 Jan 1942, then got doubly-screwed when his flight to Leipzig for medical care crashed on landing at Lemberg (one more reason to distrust Porky Göring?).

    Don’t worry, Reichenau got a state funeral. His Generalfeldmarshall baton must have looked splendid on the flag-draped casket. Ample reward for helping destroy Germany.

    Most Germans that took the oath he suggested didn’t get a baton or state funeral.

  223. Avery says:
    @anon

    {Just because someone drafted a plan for something, even someone prominent, doesn’t mean it would have occurred.}

    Whatever plan Nazis had or didn’t have for the East, mainly Slavic peoples, the record of their behaviour towards Slavic civilians and the POWs of the Red Army is ample evidence.

    Just one example: the Siege of Leningrad, where genocidal Nazis deliberately attempted to starve to death a city of about 3 million. Approximately 1 million civilians were killed or died an unnatural death as a result of the criminal siege: artillery shelling, aviation bombing, starvation,…… Find a similar example of Nazi atrocity from any other theater of WW2, if you can.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @utu
  224. In the 1960′s there was an entertainment tv show shown on British television, which was a competition of various physical games and tasks held between teams from different European holiday towns . I think it was called “Top Town” or something similar.
    I hate to admit it, but the German holiday town contestants always seemed to be winning and the most competitive.

    • Replies: @Henry's Cat
  225. renfro says:
    @Dr. X

    That and the cutting off of all supply lines to the Southern forces.

  226. Wally says:
    @Avery

    said:
    “Just one example: the Siege of Leningrad, where genocidal Nazis deliberately attempted to starve to death a city of about 3 million. Approximately 1 million civilians were killed or died an unnatural death as a result of the criminal siege: artillery shelling, aviation bombing, starvation,…… Find a similar example of Nazi atrocity from any other theater of WW2, if you can.”

    Indeed, during wars supplies are a problem. After all the Allies made the Germans look Girl Scouts in comparison.
    Your fake 1 millions is pure BS propaganda without proof as is obvious by your inability to produce it.
    Sorry, discredited, manipulated, Zionist controlled Wikipedia is not acceptable.

    It’s amazing how fast one can debunk Zionists claims simply by demanding proof. But then they are not known for being truthful. LOL

    http://www.codoh.com

  227. Sparkon says:
    @Philip Owen

    Phillip Owen says:

    Moscow was defended by British Empire tanks.

    Really?

    More accurately stated, a few British Matilda and Valentine tanks joined in the defense of Moscow.

    From Tank Encyclopedia:

    • Between 1941 and 1943, some 1084 Matildas were shipped to the Soviet Union. Only 918 were received by the Red Army…The Soviets received one-third of the entire 2987 vehicle production run of the Matilda.

    • A major problem with tank, the Soviet crews found, was how ill-suited it was too [sic] harsh winter conditions…The tank was designed to operate down to 0 Degrees C, but temperatures in Russian could drop as low as -50 Degrees C… It was found that just 30 cm (12 in) of snow was enough to stop the tank.

    • The Matilda’s 2 Pounder (40 mm) gun was also a problem. The Soviets saw it as no improvement over their own 45 mm 20-K tank gun

    • Later deliveries of the tank bringing the Close-Support Matilda armed with an Ordnance QF 3 inch (76 mm) Howitzer. .. only around 120 were received. They were not very common, with only a few units being equipped with them. The 5th Mechanized Corps of the 68th Army were one such unit for example.

    • By the end of 1941, some 182 British tanks had been committed to combat operations, of which around 80 would be lost in action. By this time, there were only 46 Lend/Lease tanks still operational on the Western Front, this consisted of 38 Valentines and only eight Matildas. Many Matildas were pulled back from frontline service due to the Matilda’s shortcomings in harsh winter weather.

    • Replies: @animalogic
  228. Neuday says:
    @Incitatus

    I meant the Anglosphere shouldn’t have allied with Russia.

    The allies didn’t win the war; Russia won the war. The U.S. reaped the rewards of being the only industrial power left standing, but that only made us a fat, juicy target for the Frankfurt School.

  229. @Respect

    You are assuming that war and conflict are inherently bad for the human race. John Calhoun’s rats in a cage experiment demonstrated just the opposite. When the experiment was allowed to run it course all the rats died out but not because of conflict–just the opposite! They died out because of lack of conflict. There being no competition between males for females, territory or food, certain hormones were not secreted in young males which resulted in their losing their sex drive.

    The colony died out because of disinterest in competition, combat and sex. Instead, the young males spent their time preening themselves–not unlike leftists in American colleges and young Swedish men today who engage in moral preening through their SJWism.

    Combat releases hormones that make men protective and nationalistic, not the other way around. To become brave, you have to act brave. That’s why social planners in the West today steer young men away from competitive rough and tumble sports and into girly sports like soccer. A society composed of weak, complacent, non-aggressive young men chattering like seventh-grade girls on their cell phones is easy to coerce.

  230. Wally says:
    @anon

    Generalplan Ost is a laughable & fake Zionist creation. There was / is no such Generalplan Ost German document. Simple as that.

    See the actual facts about the fake claim discussed in these:

    See British bought & paid for “historian” Richard J. Evans’s assertions about it crushed.

    https://codoh.com/library/document/4470/?lang=en

    Origins and Functions of the Birkenau Camp
    By Carlo Mattogno https://codoh.com/library/document/3113/?lang=en

    Sobibór: Holocaust Propaganda and Reality
    By Carlo Mattogno https://codoh.com/library/document/4450/?lang=en

    It’s no wonder that The Usual Enemies of Free Speech want all debate about the impossible ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers banned everywhere, not just Europe.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Andrew E. Mathis
  231. tamo says:
    @Diversity Heretic

    I strongly disagree with the title of the article that says the German soldiers were the BEST, So main purpose of my comment was to discuss the WARRIOR QUALITY of an individual soldier not the pluses and minuses of each MILITARY as a whole. Of course Germans had a technologically far more superior military than Japanese. In the battle of Bulge, after the initial success, Germans LITERALLY ran out of GAS thus they had to to retreat after abandoning of a lot of their tanks with empty fuel tanks. The retreat became a rout. It seems to me their so-called reorganizing and counter attack ability were not good enough to stop the Americans. You said German could stop cold ” an American airborne division cold (although not indefinitely)”. As a former paratrooper of the 82nd Airborne Division of the U.S. Army, I respectfully beg do differ from you. It was the 82nd Airborne and the 101st Airborne divisions that were hurriedly deployed to finally stop the initial German rampage at the battle of Bulge and stop them they did. Also at the siege of Bastogne, it was our brother division,the 101st Airborne that defended it’s position against the overwhelming German forces thus denying Germans access to Antwerp, the most critical allies’ supply depot in Europe at the time. What the 101st Airborne accomplished against the far superior German forces at Bastogne was TRULY HEROIC. The 101 Airborne’s stopping the Germans at Bastogne possibly saved the war for the allies.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  232. utu says:
    @Avery

    Just one example: the Siege of Leningrad, where genocidal Nazis deliberately attempted to starve to death a city of about 3 million.

    By turning a city into a military fortress civilians become de facto enemy combatants. Under Geneva and Hague Conventions defenders bear sole responsibility for the civilians. If Red Army could not defend the city w/o using its population as a human shield and/or as active combatants the city should have been surrendered. The same goes for Warsaw 1939 and Rotterdam 1940.

    The most relevant of these treaties is the Hague Convention of 1907 because it was the last treaty ratified before 1939 which specify the laws of war regarding the use of bombardment. In the Hague Convention of 1907, there are two which have a direct bearing on this issue of bombardment. These are “Laws of War: Laws and Customs of War on Land (Hague IV); 18 October 1907″[2] and “Laws of War: Bombardment by Naval Forces in Time of War (Hague IX); 18 October 1907″.[3] It is significant that there is a different treaty which should be invoked for bombardment of land by land (Hague IV) and of land by sea (Hague IX).[4] Hague IV, which reaffirmed and updated Hague II (1899),[5] contains the following clauses:

    Article 25: The attack or bombardment, by whatever means, of towns, villages, dwellings, or buildings which are undefended is prohibited.

    Although the 1907 Hague Conventions IV – The Laws and Customs of War on Land and IX – Bombardment by Naval Forces in Time of War prohibited the bombardment of undefended places, there was no international prohibition against indiscriminate bombardment of non-combatants in defended places

  233. I see the comparison today between the PRC and America. The PRC has the numbers like America had. The US has claimed technological superiority with fewer numbers , like the Germans, to counter the PRC vast numbers.

    • Replies: @denk
  234. renfro says:
    @Chris Mallory

    I don’t know when your family got here but the Germans were among the first. Their farming talents and work ethic literally fed America.
    My idea of controlling the population problem would be ‘last in first out.’

    With an estimated size of approximately 44 million in 2016, German Americans are the largest of the ancestry groups reported by the US Census Bureau in its American Community Survey.[1] The group accounts for about one third of the total ethnic German population in the world.
    In the 1670s, the first significant groups of German immigrants arrived in the British colonies, settling primarily in Pennsylvania, New York, and Virginia. Immigration continued in very large numbers during the 19th century, with eight million arrivals from Germany. Between 1820 and 1870 over seven and a half million German immigrants came to the United States—more than doubling the entire population of the country. By 2010, their population grew to 49.8 million immigrants, reflecting a jump of 6 million people since 2000..

    About 33 million Americans—10.5% of the total population—reported Irish ancestry in the 2013 American Community Survey conducted by the U.S. Census Bureau

    British Americans usually refers to Americans whose ancestry originates wholly or partly in the United Kingdom (England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland). Unlike similar terms, such as African American, or Italian American, individuals seldom self-designate as British American (1,172,050 chose it in the 2009 American Community Survey); it is primarily a demographic or historical research category for people who have at least partial descent from peoples of Great Britain and the modern United Kingdom, i.e. English Americans, Scottish Americans, Welsh Americans, Scotch-Irish Americans, Manx Americans, and to an extent, people who identify simply as “Americans”.
    According to American Community Survey in 2009, Americans reporting one of the British ancestries number 40,234,652, or 13.0% of the total

    While an estimated 36 million Americans (12% of the total population) reported Irish ancestry in 2006, and 6 million (2% of the population) reported Scottish ancestry,[4] an additional 5.4 million (1.8% of the population) identified more specifically with Scotch-Irish ancestry. The term Scotch-Irish is used primarily in the United States

  235. Dutch Boy says:
    @Raymond

    All true; furthermore, the US Army’s infantry is not made up of elite troops (as was the German Army’s infantry). The US had an enormous fleet and strategic air force that used up a large supply of the available elite manpower. The US tactic of combined arms (using infantry, artillery and armor supported by tactical air units) was able to overcome the German superiority in infantry and armor (admittedly at high cost).

    • Replies: @animalogic
  236. @ThreeCranes

    But more than easy to coerce. A society of satiated, non-assertive young men dies out as the rat experiment shows; which is why our eminent rulers import dusky, less inhibited aliens to replace them.

    Tiny Duck and Anonymous disclaimer are right about this.

    But the “enemy” is not competition and conflict, it’s affluenza.

  237. Dr. X says:
    @szopen

    All armies commit atrocities — including the American army. The question is merely this: was it standard operating procedure for average conscript soldiers to commit atrocities? No. It’s almost always counterproductive for a “big army” to allow this kind of thing to happen, because they’re more preoccupied with the enemy’s “big army.”

    Atrocities are almost always carried out during guerrilla wars in which the enemy is not readily identifiable and troops just take the “kill ‘em all” approach (cf. No Gun Ri and My Lai) and/or by black ops units doing mop-up operations away from the main front (such as the SS and the einsatzgruppen).

    Of the armies that fought in World War II, I’d say that atrocities by common soldiers as a matter of accepted policy were most common in the Japanese Imperial Army. Second place would be routine political atrocities of the Soviet Army. The German officer corps was very professional and there was political tension between officers from the Junker aristocracy and Hitler, the Austrian corporal. A few field commanders were fanatical Nazis who encouraged wiping out as many Jews as possible, but others actually complained when rearguard units committed mass shootings and most frontline commanders were preoccupied with the Red Army, not the Jews.

    • Replies: @utu
  238. Joe Wong says:
    @Varenik

    The Americans and their ex colonial master, the Brits, have the world most lethal weapon that nobody can beat, it is their big mouth loose cannon.

    • Replies: @animalogic
  239. Joe Wong says:
    @tamo

    Japanese are unrepentant war criminals, their WWII war criminal forebears were beastly, barbaric, psychopathic, sadistic, robotic murderers. They were the ultimate representation of morally defunct bloodthirsty dark side of humanity. Killing one of them was reducing one trash from humanity.

    The Japanese soldiers like the American soldiers showed discipline and bravery only when they had fire power superiority, otherwise they ran for lives like dogs with tails between the legs. Japanese knew they were hated due to the crimes beyond human imagination they committed against the local people, therefore they feared to be captured and they would commit suicide rather let themselves be captured alive, they knew they would suffer what they had done to the local people.

  240. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @TG

    We did win wars against Grenada and Panama LOL.

  241. tamo says:
    @Joe Wong

    Granted Japanese troops committed a lot of unspeakable atrocities against Chinese and other people. But it doesn’t take away their fanatical devotion to bravery and willingness to fight to death that no other countries’ soldiers could match.

    • Replies: @Joe Wong
  242. @Sergey Krieger

    “Americans never faced Germans at their best otherwise they would not live to tell about that”
    Possibly a bit exaggerated but reminds me – it’s a hazy memory, so apologies in advance if I’ve got it wrong.
    After D-day Eisenhower was in a jeep with his son. Son says something like “good thing we had air superiority here dad”. Dad laughs & says “Son we have air supremacy – wouldn’t have been an invasion without it !”
    Anyway, please correct – with my memory whole story maybe nonsense….

  243. @Philip Owen

    Germany didn’t go over to a all out war economy until 43-44 (?).

  244. Wally says:
    @Andrew E. Mathis

    Now that’s pathetic. Everyone, please read all below.
    Mathis’s link is completely faked hilarity. Anyone with a German typewriter and an agenda could have typed these, and did.
    This supposed to be a believable title page? LOL
    And hey, not a single signature anywhere on any page.
    Nothing to verify that it is authentic. Nothing whatsoever.
    Nothing whatsoever to show that the entire text is anything but manufactured text.

    Even the Zionist biased Wiki said about the bogus Generalplan Ost:”
    “Thus, no copies of the plan were found after the war among the documents in German archives. Apart from Ehlich’s testimony, there are several documents which refer to this plan or are supplements to it. Although no copies of the actual document have survived, most of the plan’s essential elements have been reconstructed from related memos, abstracts and other ancillary documents.”
    And of course no such “testimony” text by Ehlich is to be seen.

    But leave it to Andrew Mathis to try and push such nonsense.

    And notice that proven liar & charlatan Zionist Andrew Mathis dodged my posted routs of this fakery.
    An absolute must:
    See fraudulent ‘Villanova professor’ and ranting Zionist, Andrew Mathis, skewered here by Ms. Lee: http://www.angelfire.com/fl4/fci/andysjew.html
    also recommended:
    CODOH routs Industry spokesman Andrew Mathis:

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4451&p=72138&hilit=mathis+thames+mulegino#p72138

    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @Andrew E. Mathis
  245. @Respect

    It goes without saying that the German armed forces were to some degree complicete with Nazism. There IS guilt there: BUT…the question of “degree” is difficult & contentious. To say the least, many German military men had mixed emotions to their political masters….

    • Replies: @Wally
  246. @Alfa158

    Often decoding success was based on the degree of laziness of the German operators: ie repeating same reports/words using same /limited number of enigma settings made breaking code easier.

  247. denk says:
    @Prof Watson

    and just like ww2,

    In the end the PRC quantity overwhelm fukus ‘quality’ and rid the world of its scourge fukus.

    elementary Watson !

    P.S.
    To avoid any misunderstanding,
    Im NOT implying Germany was the scourge in ww2, but fukus definitely IS the scourge of the current world.

  248. @Sparkon

    My understanding is the Western allies most important contribution to the Soviets was in areas such as steel, trucks & jeeps: let’s face it, with the possible exception of aircraft, most Soviet weapons (from 42 on) were equal if not better than the Allies’. (No doubt there were exceptions)

  249. Stupid question.
    How could a nation of, at the beginning of WWII, some 44 million inhabitants, deprived, for example, of metals needed to produce high performance aircraft engines, withstand USA industrial production and the Russian masses ?
    Todt already in early 1942, after Pearl Harbour and open war with the USA, told Hitler that Germany could no longer win the war.
    Richard Overy, ‘Why the allies won’, New York, London, 1995

  250. @Dutch Boy

    I would classify the Marines as “Elite” (with Rangers, Paratroopers etc)
    The US Army, I believe had a tendency to wait for artillery, tank or aircraft support, before committing to any too challenging engagement….

    • Replies: @Dutch Boy
  251. @Joe Wong

    You obviously know nothing, not about Japanese troops, and not about USA troops in the Pacific.
    John Toland, ‘Gods of War’, New York 1985
    Charles A. Lindbergh, ´The Wartime Journals of Charles A. Lindbergh’, New York, 1970
    Mark R. Peattie, ‘Nan’yõ, The Rise and Fall of the Japanese in Micronesia, 1885 – 1945’, Honolulu, 1988, 1992
    Robert J.C. Butow, ‘JAPAN’S Decision to Surrender’, Stanford, 1954

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Joe Wong
  252. @tamo

    ” Germans LITERALLY ran out of GAS thus they had to to retreat after abandoning of a lot of their tanks with empty fuel tanks. ”
    Germany WAS out of gas.
    What this has to do with being professional, beyond my comprension.

    • Replies: @tamo
  253. @Alfa158

    The results of Turing’s efforts should not be underestimated.
    Andrew Hodges, ‘Alan Turing, ‘The Enigma of Intelligence’, 1983, 1987, London
    His decoding was so successfull that the Germans began to wonder if their assumed unbreakable codes had been broken.
    The British navy sank German supply ships in the Atlantic for submarines.
    The Milch Cow, milk cow, a freighter submarine, went into production in 1944, if I remember correctly.
    Brave Churchill stayed in London when Enigma had told him that London would not be bombed, if it was, het went to Chequers.
    GB rewarded Turing by killing him, or driving him to suicide.
    He knew too much, and did not understand how explosive his knowledge was.

  254. @bobbybobbob

    Beginning in the autumn of 1944 the Auschwitz plants for synthetic aircraft fuel, rubber and oil were bombed, from N Italy.
    The USA during the whole war denied the USSR big bombers.
    Russian anger about this went so far as to let Flying Fortresses that had landed in the USSR deliberately being destroyed by German planes, and not allowing USA bombers that had landed in China to take off again.
    In early 1945 German fighter jets were grounded by hundreds.
    Franz Kurowski, ‘Balkenkreuz und Roter Stern, Der Luftkrieg über Russland 1941 – 1944′, 1984, Friedberg
    Frans Kurowski, ‘Der Luftkrieg über Deutschland’, Düsseldorf Wien 1977
    Luftkrieg = air war.

  255. Nick Diaz says:
    @TG

    “I think Jerry Pournell once wondered why there was all this fascination with the German military, when they haven’t won a war since 1870.”

    I can answer this to you. Saying that Germany hasn’t won a war since 1870 is an immaterial and 100% irrelevant to disprove German military greatness. The fascination comes because they took on much bigger counties with more resources and did extremely well. As an analogy, t would be like saying that Many Pacquiao is not really a skilled boxer worthy of admiration because he would go 3-0 if he fought Mike Tyson, Lennox and Wldimir Klitschko. Point is, he would lose only because those three are much bigger and stronger than him, and not because his skills are not great. Likewise, Germany lost to the Allies only because the resource capacity of the U.S.S.R and latter the U.S is something like 50 X greater. They didn’t lose because their enemies were more efficient than they were. Given what the Germans had to work with and what they accomplished, crushing Russia almost up to the Urals while at the same time holding both Britain and the U.S for a whole year with extremely diminished resources, was extremely impressive, and I am being euphemistic here. The Wehrmacht was *superb* . Arguably the greatest army ever. Only the Roman legions at the time of Augustus can compare, and even then it is debateable because the Romans at the time of Augustus suffered a crushing defeat at Teutoburg Wald.

    “But we should not be smug. We now have a technically superb military – that is being squandered on pointless winless wars, and overextended, and worn down by shear numbers. Perhaps someday some future historian will say the same about us…”

    The American Military actually has a dismal track record, especially for the ridiculous amount of money that is spend on it. America fights nothing but banana republics and iron-age Muslim states. And some times, those banana republics not only hold their own against America, but even give America embarrassing defeats, like in Vietnam or the fact that America is unable to control a few nomadic tribesmen in Afgghanistan. The American Military relies heavily in deployment, air power and long-ranged offensive power. At this, America does have an advantage over other Great Powers, especially in air power and very precision long-range missiles. In other areas, like naval power, artillery and elite light-infantry, America still has an edge over other Great Powers in deployment, but it is not significantly more powerful than Russia, China, the UK or France.

    The fundamental problem with America, it’s biggest weakness, is infantry and the armored units/artillery to support it. Bombing your opponent back to the stone age from the air, or blowing up their facilities from afar with Tomahawks is fine and dandy, but the problem is that you cannot *completely* win a war like that. To win a war, to truly win it, you need, to use the military jargon, “boots on the ground”. You need to *occupy* the enemy’s territory, and this is where America fails. America has good elite SpecOPS, although I personally believe that the SAS and Spetsnaz are better, but you take territory with regular infantry and not SEALs. American infantry is just not up to standard, professional enough, and organized in such a way as to truly take advantage of it’s air power and the superior ease of deployment that America has. Furthermore, it’s weaponry is sub-par compared to that of many other nations, including nations such as Switzerland. Americans still use modified versions of the full-auto M-16, the same rifle that failed miserably in Vietnam. Wherever Americans need to take and hold *territory*, they fail.

    Overall, the Wehrmacht was incomparably superior to the modern American Military. Not even close. Man for man, unit for unit, and in terms of results, it is like comparing a red diamond to a lump of shit.

    • Replies: @Anon
  256. @tamo

    Lindbergh ‘you could not out turn a Zero’.

    • Replies: @tamo
  257. @Incitatus

    No, that was because the system was going murderously mad.

    In the last year of the war – coincidentally the year in which more German soldiers lost their lives than in the five years before – there were more court martials in Germany than there were in the whole four years of the first war – per week.

  258. @Z-man

    The problem was that the German dissidents had the same foreign policy objectives as Hitler.
    No deal.

    • Replies: @Z-man
  259. @fnn

    The young in the Third Reich were growing up to have strong and healthy bodies, faith in the future of their country and in themselves and a sense of fellowship and camaraderie that shattered all class and economic and social barriers.

    You make it sound like a turbo-charged scout camp. And if, for some reason, you didn’t share this sense of fellowship and camaraderie, you were sent to an even more exclusive camp where they shouted at you a lot.

    the first British war prisoners, with their hollow chests, round shoulders, pasty complexions and bad teeth-tragic examples of the youth that England had neglected so irresponsibly in the years between the wars.

    Amazing what a bit of sunshine can do, isn’t it? I’m here to tell you that the current crop of British youth are similarly ‘neglected’ (love this word). Hunched over their tablets and PS4s, afflicted by lack of pectoral development and shoulder impingement syndrome, they barely enjoy the rare sunshine due to the utter failure of the ruling elite’s cloud elimination policies.

  260. szopen says:
    @L.K

    The killing of ethnic Germans before 1939 has not happened. After 1939 to say it was exxagerated by Nzai propaganda is to say “whale is exxagerated version of hamster”. For example, Nazi propaganda claimed 58.000 Germans killed in Bydgoszcz (Bromberg). AFter war, the highest number of Germans who were killed/died in September 1939 (and remember, that number necessarily also includes victims of German bombardment, not all were victims of “atrocities”) is some 400. Polish historians found 365 people who died 3-4 September 1939, which number includes some _Polish soldiers_. The hospital in Bydgoszcz that day welcomed few Polish soldiers who were supposedly wounded during fights in city.

    Anyway, the point stands: you guys claim that there is no proof for Holocaust and it’s all hoax, while blindly accepting the most ridiculous claims of Nazi propaganda.

    • Replies: @Anon
  261. szopen says:
    @utu

    Yes, there were some people killed and there are relations. For example – from my memory – one German civilian tried to convince Polish escort that their effort is futile and they should just give up, and then tried to grab the Polish soldier gun – and was shot. Moreover, as cars reserved for the evacuation were confiscated by the army, most of civilians were to be moved on foot, via roads which were constantly strafed by Luftwaffe. The total number of people who died was not large, however.

  262. @Joe Wong

    Yes.
    And their infinite capacity for lies & hypocracy.
    And their gold, sterling & dollars.

    • Replies: @Joe Wong
  263. It does seem that German soldiers were more effective than their opposition. But, so what?
    Being more effective as a soldier means being better at killing and destroying. Is that so admirable?
    Ghengis Khan’s Mongols were better fighters than most of their opponents, should we admire them?

    • Replies: @Anon
  264. Miro23 says:
    @fnn

    That’s an interesting comment. It’s the difference between the neoliberal economic view of people as economic agents (truthfully also the Marxist view) and a national socialist view that breaks down class and economic barriers to build a national community.

    There is an ethnic component to the national community idea, which is quite legitimate, but the tragedy of Hitler is that he combined it with 19th century Imperialist ideas (he was a fan of the British Empire) finding a racial destiny for the German people outside of Germany’s borders. Just taking Hitler’s national socialist program applying to Germans in Germany there are plenty of positive ideas.

    He went into some detail in Table Talk:

    [MORE]

    NATIONAL SOCIALISM – His national socialism certainly treated all Germans as equals (and unfortunately superior to non-Germans) (60) “I never stopped telling my supporters that our victory was a mathematical certainty, for, unlike Social Democracy, we rejected nobody from the national community.” (127) “Every reasonably conducted organization is bound to favour the development of beings of worth. It has been my wish that educative organizations of the Party should enable the poorest child to lay claim to the highest functions if he has enough talent. The Party must see to it on the other hand, that society is not compartmentalized, …. It’s essential that a balance should be struck, in such a way that dyed-in-the-wool Conservatives may be abolished as well as Jewish and Bolshevik anarchists.”

    MONEY – (41) “Only the professors don’t understand that the value of money depends on the value of goods behind that money.” … “To give people money is solely a problem of making paper. The whole question is to know whether the workers are producing goods to match the paper that’s made.”

    PRIVATE PROPERTY – (171) I absolutely insist on protecting private property. It is natural and salutary that the individual should be inspired by the wish to devote part of the income from his work to building up and expanding a family estate. Suppose the estate consists of a factory. I regard it as axiomatic, in the ordinary way, that this factory will be better run by one of the members of the family than it would be by a state functionary.”….. “On the other hand I am distinctly opposed to property in form of anonymous participation in societies of shareholders. This sort of shareholder produces no other effort than that of investing his money, and thus he becomes the chief beneficiary of other people’s effort: the worker’s zest for their job, the ideas of an engineer of genius, the skill of an experienced administrator.”

    SEPARATION OF STATE AND COMMERCE – (270) “No servant of the State must be a shareholder. No Gauleiter, no Member of the Reichstag, and , in general, no Party leader must be a member of any board of directors, regardless of whether the appointment is honorary or paid; for even if the individual were actuated by the interests of the State, end even if he possessed the integrity of Cato himself, the public would lose faith in him. In capitalist States, it is essential for a great enterprise to have in its employ men of influence – hence the large number of members of Parliament and high officials who figure on boards of directors. The amounts disbursed to these personages in director’s fees, share of profits and so on is more than recouped by one or two fat Government contracts which they are in a position to secure for their company.” … “When an official retires from State service, he should not be allowed to enter a line of business with which he previously had official dealings…”

    ADMINISTRATION – He suggests decentralized decision making with a central budget. Also a simple10% tax on all working Germans. (69) “It’s likewise nonsense to try to control all of a province’s expenditure from Berlin. What is good is to keep a check on the expenditure authorized by the central authority.” …. “Again if the theatre at Weimar wants to renew its equipment, it should not have to make a request to Berlin. It’s a local problem.” (121) “There are two ways of revising the administration: a reduction of the Budget, or a reduction of personnel.” …… “ The fiscal system is uselessly complicated. Since the days when people paid the Crown its tenth, there’s been no end to the process of adding supplementary taxes to this tenth!”

    BOURGEOISIE – He shares with the Communists the view that the bourgeoisie are politically useless although both National Socialist and Communist leaders personally lived very bourgeois lifestyles. (185) “since the beginning of my political activity, I have made it a rule not to curry favour with the bourgeoisie. The political attitude of that class is marked by the sign of cowardice.”…. “the first years of my struggle were therefore concentrated on the object: win over the worker to the National Socialist Party.”

    THE STATE – (42) “To bring decency into civil life, the first condition is to have an integral State: an incorruptible army, a police and administration reduced to a minimum.” (39) From the tenderest age, education will be imparted in such a way that each child will know all that is important to the maintenance of the state.”

    REVOLUTIONARY OBJECTIVES – Basic Socialism in equality of opportunity for the benefit of Germany as a whole. (160) “A revolution has three main objectives. First of all it’s a matter of breaking down the partitions between classes, to allow every man to rise. Secondly, it’s a matter of creating a standard of living such that the poor will be assured of a decent existence. Finally, it’s a matter of acting in such a way that the benefits of civilization will become common property.”

    https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1929631057/ref=nosim/librarythin08-20

    Also thanks for the links to Williamson’s nature writing and for the Waco video which shows where the US is today; https://www.bitchute.com/video/Z2FQmiocIhyO/

  265. szopen says:

    I think there is one factor: German soldiers were veterans surviving many campaigns, while most of the early opponents were destroyed and they would continously face new soldiers, not veterans.

    Polish memories from 1939 claim that soldier by soldier, German ones were not that good. In hand-to-hand combat or when faced directly they weren’t good at all. One source even claimed that in every single accident of hand-to-hand combat, German soldiers were defeated (.e.g. in battle of Jaworów the SS Standarte Germania was defeated in hand-to-hand fight, with one of their batallions completely wiped out). I’ve even heard memories of one accident when Polish soldiers, suppressed by enemy fire, started to scream “Hurra!” and German soldiers escaped.

    HOWEVER, this had not mattered a single bit, because what mattered is taht the German officers were better, and their edge rose the higher they were in rank (i.e. on the highest level, Germans were indisputably superior). On battallion level, Polish officers abilities were comparable to German. On army level, most of Polish commanders were completely inept and complete amateurs compared to Germans.

    The fight was won by logistics, artillery, airplanes and tanks. Most of Polish soldiers were killed by artillery fire and airplanes. The very instructing case is Wizna; while the modern picture of the battle is wildly exxagerated, it still serves a useful example. The soldiers who stayed with Raginis were able to hold for three days (mostly against infantry, as tanks broke through the first day) and gave a decent performance, given the circumstances (not as good as it is presented by Sabaton, but still it was at least as good as expected from good soldiers defending good defensive position).

    However, the bunkers were understaffed and in fact had any crew at all only because Raginis struggled against his superiors, who stripped the bunkers from most of the soldiers. The soldiers who left the bunkers marched in one direction, then some genius decided they have to go back to the bunkers, so they marched back, while being attacked by Luftwaffe, and finally the unit simply dispersed – with many casualties – without ever directly facing the enemy.

    To conclude, it was not German soldiers, who were better, It was German ARMY, which was better.

    • LOL: L.K
    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  266. @szopen

    Polish memories, cavalry against tanks

    • Replies: @szopen
  267. padre says:

    Personally, I don’t admire anybody for his resourcefulness in killing!

  268. Respect says:

    antichristian german monsters

  269. @AKAHorace

    They were recruited regionally. The only exception was the Grossdeutschland division, which, as the name suggests, were drawn up from the whole of Germany.

  270. Heros says:
    @Joe Wong

    Recently the truth about Yankees behavior across the pacific during the war has been leaking out, thanks to the internet. From Guadalcanal on Yankees were not taking any Japanese prisoners, instead they were doing things like bashing gold teeth out of living soldiers with rifle buts. Roosevelt had a letter opener made from the arm of Japanese soldier who like many had had his corpse defiled by Yankee soldiers.

    That Americans today still feel the need to justify Hiroshima and Nagasaki is the reason that these myths have taken so long to be exposed. The de-humanizing propaganda against Germans and Japanese throughout the lead up to the war, during the war and continuing after the war was one reason people could not see the truth.

    I point this out because you post under “wong” and seem to bear some kind of hatred for the Japanese, which makes it seem that you are Chinese.

    In that case, then I would assume that you think that Mao was somehow more civilized than the Japanese? How does the “Rape of Nanking” compare to the Cultural Revolution with regards to the amount of suffering and murder?

    Just as with the German army, one has to recognize that the Japanese were fighting Communists. Many people are aware that Communism was/is just a manifestation of Jewish Power. Many believe, especially in light of what has happened in the last 20 years, that this Judaic Communism was/is a far bigger threat than National Socialism ever was. Japan wanted the US to join them in preventing China from falling to the Bolsheviks and their jewish owners. Germany wanted the US to join them in preventing Europe from falling to the Bolsheviks and their jewish owners. Rosenfeld, like Churchill, was already in their pocket.

    To people like me, you need to illustrate that the Bolscheviks, who claimed to act only for the people, were less abusive and murderous than the National Socialists or the Imperial Japanese. The truth is that you cannot, because the Communists have always been far worse than any other alternative. They have no god, they stand in defiance of him.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Joe Wong
  271. tamo says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Yes, the Zero was one of the few Japanese armaments that were superior to the western ones at the start of the war.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  272. @daniel le mouche

    ” Yet more inane commentary by the Mensa genius” . ” I think you even lieved briefly in Germany”: Yeah “briefly like forty-plus years.

    “Germans destroyed the (US) universities” : This is not what I said, my point being that the German mindset of worshipping authority figures, beginning with : professors, which has completely permeated US society, this perverted mindset has enabled the leftists to subvert the total US university system, without being exposed or call-out.

    You, simply are not endowed with the mental capacity to grasp the essence of my postings, period.

    AJM

  273. szopen says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Great example of Nazi propaganda. So many years after war, and still so many believe in this “cavalry against tanks” myth. In reality Polish cavalry units were the elite units which fought on foot, moved on horses and dealt quite nicely with tanks (because they had anti-tank guns) – e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Mokra

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @jilles dykstra
  274. tamo says:
    @jilles dykstra

    German tanks ran out of fuel in the middle of the Battle of Bulge. The Germans had hoped to capture American fuel to supply their own tanks with. But that never happened. In my opinion, planning your combat operations on highly doubtful captured-enemy’s resources is not being very professional.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  275. Anon[411] • Disclaimer says:
    @szopen

    Great example of Nazi propaganda. So many years after war, and still so many believe in this “cavalry against tanks” myth. In reality Polish

    This is ways better myth than Polish ‘resistance’ and ‘Katyn massacre’. Inside a universe of Polish national mythology the ‘sabres against Rhinemetall’ episode has no place. ‘Katyn massacre’ and ‘millions raped’ are the same Goebbelsian Nazi propaganda that constitutes modern Polish narrative. In reality, Poland ceased to exist in just weeks, the government fled, and the next 5 years Poles served Nazis and maintained the deathcamps.

    • Replies: @szopen
    , @Wally
  276. @Authenticjazzman

    Not to be too pedantic, but for a towering genius you both have terrible spelling and seem to have many problems with basic punctuation–such I’m sure are your unfathomablely great thoughts that you hardly even noticed such trifles. But from your response to me:
    genius’ . [period goes inside quotes]
    lieved [lived]
    Yeah ‘briefly like [should have comma after yeah, and another quotation mark after briefly]
    beginning with : professors [colon unnecessary]
    US society, this [period after society, begin new sentence with this]
    without being exposed or call-out [called]
    You, simply are not [either no comma or an additional one after simply]

    Okay: many more punctuation mistakes than spelling. But you strike me as all bile, much less intellect. But how could I possibly know, much less grasp that beautiful mind of yours?

  277. @anon

    To find an objective history for the causes of WWII, read ‘Unfinished Victory’, by Arthur Bryant. It was published in 1940 so it is downloadable for free, it’s copyright has expired.
    I used DuckDuck go to find it, using the title and author – G00gle is not the search engine it once was.
    Reading it was a revelation. It shows exactly who started the conflict, and why.

  278. Kolo says:
    @anonymous

    Another brain dead moron farts through his mouth

  279. @Wally

    Truly amazing that you would cast doubt on these documents but accept the Schlegelberger document at face value. You clearly have no consistency in the standards you apply.

    http://www.unz.com/article/against-david-irvings-view-of-hitler/#comment-2375529

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @utu
  280. Louistjie says: • Website

    Good read.. I myself am rather s & t of the Hollywood stereotype.. one of the readons Das Boot was such a tonic

  281. @Authenticjazzman

    Sorry, American troops raped a good many French women. However the rapists were not the heros of Omaha Beach but rear area support personnel, mainly blacks (big surprise there). Check the court martial records. More than 100 were executed.
    As for the German Army, my dad fought from the Torch landings to May 1945 in Italy, including Anzio. He was quite matter-of-fact in saying the Germans were far more professional than us or even the Brits, who he admired. And dad was in the 3rd Infantry Division, one of our best.

  282. Excuse my misspelling. No offense intended., Any carelessness in such regard is my own and wholly unintentional.

    As to the structure of his position — I have no comment.

    to the veracity of his position on population control — I think is accurate and makes good sense —- i agree with the contention that the massive effort in segregating “unwanted populations” was a huge diversion from the war effort and it was costly.

  283. utu says:
    @Dr. X

    Atrocities are almost always carried out during guerrilla wars in which the enemy is not readily identifiable and troops just take the “kill ‘em all” approach

    Sometimes partisans are created for the sole purpose of dragging in the occupying forces into atrocities. This was the case of Soviet partisans in Russia where in the initial phase of occupation many Russians, Belorussians and Ukrainians adjusted well to German occupation and often preferred it to the Soviet rule. Bringing partisans lead to German reprisals. Many villages formed self-defense forces against the partisans and were equipped with weapons supplied by Germans. The partisan warfare unleashed by Stalin was not really about slowing Germans down but it was the fight for hearts and minds of Soviet citizens who were willing to ditch communism and Stalin. This warfare is responsible for great losses of civilian life. The unknown number of Soviet civilian collaborators killed by partisans is added to the sum of German atrocities.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @AnonFromTN
  284. Kolo says:
    @Respect

    Another idiotic post

  285. @Joe Wong

    Mr. Wong, I think that your post is influenced by your own prejudice against the 16 ray flag of the Raising Sun that is raising today.

    • Replies: @Joe Wong
  286. Wally says:
    @Andrew E. Mathis

    Leave it to a phony wannabe ‘professor’ and an unhinged Zionist to not know the difference.

    Of course you cannot rebut my critique of your laughably manufactured Generalplan Ost.

    And, you cannot rebut the Schlegelberger Document and the supportive Luther Memo which destroy the impossible ’6M Jews’ nonsense.

    In fact you have not been able to rebut any of my holocaust’ debunking posts.

    Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the ‘holocaust’ storyline is the message.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Troll: Andrew E. Mathis
  287. Wally says:
    @utu

    said:
    ” The unknown number of Soviet civilian collaborators killed by partisans is added to the sum of German atrocities.”

    And what “German atrocities” would that be?

    Proof required.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @szopen
    , @utu
  288. szopen says:
    @Anon

    Why you lie, Nazi scum? Which German death camp was maintained by Poles?

    • Replies: @Anon
  289. There must be two authors named Max Boot, for the one referenced in this article fits NOTHING I have read by “Foreign Relations” Max Boot (a hilarious pseudonym at best).

  290. Wally says:
    @Anon

    What “deathcamps’? LOL

    Show us the claimed massive human remains at this labor camps. After all, Jews tell us that murdered Jews went to huge mass graves and that to this day they know the locations of these alleged mass graves.
    So why don’t they excavate the alleged enormous ‘mass graves’, show the world the millions of Jew corpses, and prove their point?

    Healthy Jews at Auschwitz ‘liberation’:

    The ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    see the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

  291. @utu

    It is truly amazing how grown up people swallow hook, line, and sinker the fairy tales even children see through. My nephew, when he was about 10 years old, having seen one of the propaganda pieces about those mythical barrier troops, immediately asked: “who were the barrier troops for the barrier troops?” To any logically thinking person it is obvious that if there were barrier troops, they must have had their barrier troops, and so on ad infinitum.
    As to your numbers, I suggest you reveal the source. There are all sorts of numbers about every event in the last century, most of which reflect not so much the reality as the interests of people and groups that invented and spread them.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Anon
  292. Wally says:
    @animalogic

    The problem with your received narrative is that there were the ‘Nazis’ with the mythological ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ and there were the ‘Nazis’ without the mythological ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’.

    How the Film Evidence at Nuremberg was faked
    From the files of Justice Robert H Jackson, US chief prosecutor at Nuremberg:
    http://www.fpp.co.uk/History/General/Nbg/DeanIMT161145.html

    http://www.codoh.com

  293. szopen says:
    @Wally

    Atrocities such as depicted in those photos (warning: graphic content). Polish civilians murdered by Nazis during many of so called “pacifications” against Polish villages, during which hundreds of settlements were burnt to the ground (many of those were also carried by Wehrmacht – during “military administration” in 1939, Wehrmacht carried more than 700 executions.

    http://martyrologiawsipolskich.pl/mwp/wirtualne-mauzoleum/modul-ii-eksterminacja/fotogaleria/2515,Eksterminacja-wsi-fotogaleria.html

    And yes, some were as repressions against partisan activity. In 1939 Germans murdered more than 600 villagers as repressions for actions by Hubal (the first Polish partisan, captured and killed in June 1940). But some were repressions for not giving enough food or some arbitrary measures such as not respecting German soldiers.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @jilles dykstra
  294. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @jilles dykstra

    With a Chinese last name, I’m sure Joe had grand parents who lived under the Chinese occupation and have memories of the behavior of the Japanese occupation forces.

    I’ve heard about the behavior of the Japanese occupation from Filipinos who lived through it. 2 uncles of a woman I knew were crucified in the town plaza by the Japanese.

    All the books in the world can’t refute personal experience.

  295. Anon[411] • Disclaimer says:
    @AnonFromTN

    You are talking with anti-Russian bigot, an outlaw renegade of the Russian world that uses every opportunity to express russophobic mythology. Such persons are even worse than Westerners, one may compare Westerners with human sinners and former Russians with fallen angels. All of them have reasons to hate Holyness and the very Heaven, now inaccessible for them, yet with reasons varying.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  296. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Nick Diaz

    I agree with TG. The fact that the last war Germany won was in 1870 and the fact that Germany lost the next 2 wars is proof their military wasn’t very good.
    Germany lost every war it was in since unification in 1871.

    Germany has fought only 2 wars since it became Germany ( unification). Germany lost both wars a 100% lose rate.

    • Replies: @Nick Diaz
  297. Anon[411] • Disclaimer says:
    @szopen

    You are welcome to the thread to ‘Stalin is not great’ where this is explained.
    I am admirer of Polish culture, still love Poland despite all their riduculous russophobia and my grandfather was awarded a medal for liberating Poland from Nazis.

    All major deathcamps were located in Poland, and Poland provided full supply from raw materials and food, to coal and firewood to burn the inmates. No deathcamp was ever liberated by Polish ‘resistance’, no ‘underground way’ or stable escape mechanism was elaborated my 30-mln population. It was a sad story to find all this, a potent, major European nation with complete tolerance to Nazism and what Nazis did to Jews, Gypsies and other nationals. Poles are the main beneficiaries of WW2, living in the houses and running industries built not for them.

  298. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @szopen

    Totally agree.

  299. Anon[208] • Disclaimer says:
    @Whatis should

    Genghis Khan’s army won its wars. At least his army achieved its objective, winning the war. The mongols got what they wanted.

    Germany ravaged much of Europe and itself in the end. One might say Germany destroyed itself. There was a period of peace and prosperity after WW2 and then Merlel and the African Arab Muslim invasion.

    Merkel, remember, is a product of communist east Germany. She is what she is because Germany lost to Russia.

  300. Anon[208] • Disclaimer says:
    @Heros

    The Japanese really weren’t fighting Mao and his communists. On orders from Moscow, Mao and the communists were holed up in the far eastern mountains close to Russia so they could easily escape to Russia if the Japanese came too close.

    The Japanese fought the non communist Nationalist Chinese Army.
    It was only a year after the Japanese surrender that Mao and his communist army went after the exhausted Nationalist government

    I do hope you don’t refute what I wrote by citing American communist historians like CP Snow Agnes Smedly and the rest.

  301. Joe Wong says:
    @Prof Watson

    Japanese has been Whiteman’s running dog since Meiji, and doing all the dirty work against Asians for the ‘god-fearing’ morally defunct evil ‘inquisitor’ from the West, but they still did not escape the Whiteman’s wrought like fire bombing the whole Tokyo, nuclear bombing on the civilian, and Plaza Accord induced lost decades of downward spiral deflation. Japanese economy has shrunk from few times of Chinese in 60s to a fraction of Chinese economy nowadays.

    But it is not surprised that the White will call such declining and gloomy Japan as raising shiny example, because the White even call bombing, killing and waterboarding on the fabricated phantom ‘WMD’ allegation as humanitarian intervention, their logic is exceptional, it is called ‘god-fearing’ morally defunct evil ‘inquisitor’ logic.

  302. @Anon

    Correct, I knew three Dutch who lived under Japanese occupation in the then Dutch Indies.
    Death camps, please show us that they existed.
    Germany lost two wars, indeed, both by USA intervention.
    The second one, caused by the USA.

  303. Anon[411] • Disclaimer says:
    @szopen

    Wehrmacht carried more than 700 executions.

    Compare 30-mln Poland and 9-mln Belorussia, and then their comparative resistance efforts, partisan movement and human casualities, and also – deathcamps in Poland and Belorussia. Such Nazi institutions were just unthinkable among hostile population. Either Poles were fooled by considering themselves part of the West on par with Germans, or they preferred to skip resistance and wait. ‘You chose dishonour, and you will have war’.

    • Replies: @szopen
  304. @szopen

    Executing civilians for acts of resistance was legal in WWII.
    These repressions were in British war handbooks until 1948.
    The legal position was simple, the occupier had to take care of th civilian population, the population had to accept the rule of the occupier.

    • Replies: @szopen
    , @utu
  305. Joe Wong says:
    @animalogic

    Don’t forget to mention the Anglo’s biggest achievement, the whole world’s ills, and racial and border conflicts in the last few hundreds of years are created by the Brits and their offshoot the Americans. The dismemberment of the Ottoman Empire plunged the ME into eternal hatred and wars, the hatred and wars between India and Pakistan, the genocides in Africa, the sadistic and barbaric Junta terror in Latina and Caribbean Americas and SE Asia, …

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Anon
  306. @tamo

    It was a desperate last attempt.

    • Replies: @tamo
  307. Rich says:
    @Anon

    Poland was attacked by two of the militarily strongest nations in the world. They never stood a chance. To argue that the Poles didn’t throw themselves in front of bullets meant for Jews, is ridiculous. They were a defeated people trying just to survive being occupied by two foreign countries. And if you notice, a lot of Jews survived those “death camps”, why didn’t the survivors die saving their coreligionists? They wouldn’t die for their own people, but the defeated Poles should have died liberating them?

  308. @szopen

    Sure, this is why Poland was overrun in a few weeks.

    • Replies: @szopen
  309. The Scalpel says: • Website
    @L.K

    I am afraid you missed my point entirely. My point being that the information you mentioned was in the article in question. To simply state that it was one person’s opinion without providing some objective description of the facts that support that opinion is inadequate. Had it been there, the author’s case would have been much stronger. Even what you mention, leaves it somewhat up to faith that the numbers and studies were sufficient and confounding variables controlled enough to make the findings reliable. The author cannot expect his readers to have the same command of historical facts as you seem to have, or if he does, he is writing for a very small audience.

  310. @utu

    Is that why whenever the NKVD (predecessor of KGB) troops were a day or two late (likely deliberately) entering the towns liberated by the Soviet Army, locals managed to hang pretty much all German collaborators, especially those who served as polizei?
    I don’t know where your info comes from, but I am certain that it does not come from anyone who knows the situation on the ground. My mother and her sisters lived through German occupation in Ukraine, so I know it almost first-hand.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  311. Joe Wong says:
    @tamo

    The Japanese soldiers were cowards, they had no guts to faced the due punishments for their own acts. The fear of being tortured as they had done to the others for pleasure was the only driving force kept them fighting to the last breath on the battlefield. If you call such fear as bravery, it seems matching the American logic of calling bombing, killing and waterboarding on the fabricated phantom WMD allegation as humanitarian intervention.

    On the other hand the Japs were so hated that no one wanted to capture them alive, you also can gloss over such fact as their bravery and willingness to fight to death.

    • Replies: @tamo
  312. szopen says:
    @Anon

    Oh, so because Germans confiscated materials from Polish population, then it means Poles helped maintain death camps.

    I guess then because Germans confiscated food from Russians, then Russian also helped German war machine and are responsible for Nazi atrocities. It was Polish resistance which sent its own soldier inside the camp, who then prepared the report (BTW this brave soldier, Witold Pilecki, was then executed by communists after the war). It was Polish Government-in-Exile which sent reports to western allies and urged them for action (for no effect). And while no Death camps were liberated by Polish resistance, the was at least two concentration camps liberated by Polish partisans (one in Warsaw, and second Holiszów in Czechia by withdrawing NSZ unit). BTW – did you know that former German concentration camps were then reused by the Soviets, who were putting there Polish partisans and resistance fighters?

    I would also to note that it’s really preposterous that you are telling about “Polish Russophobia” when you are spewing such hateful and ignorant messages. Stop saying you like Poland – it’s clear from your posts that you hate us and despise us (while knowing nothing about our history, it seems, except from communist propaganda posters).

    There was an organisation founded and funded by Polish government-in-exile dedicated solely to help Jews (Żegota – nothing even remotely close in the rest of occupied Europe). The problem is that Polish resistance lacked guns and ammunition, and it rarely could even help non-Jewish Poles (of which thousands also perished in camps). There were also millions of non-Jewish Poles murdered by Nazi terror machine. You are basically saying that Poles are guilty of also Nazi crimes against Poles. Your logic, BTW, is even worse, because Jewish judenrats and Jewish police were often (not always) helping in organization of transports to death camps, kapos and sonderkommandos were often Jewish, and young Jews often were forced to work in German factories. By your logic, you would have to conclude that Jews were tolerant of Nazi crimes.

    Also, since allies never bombed any camp or railways leading to the camps (despite being fed reports from Polish underground), by your logic they are also reponsible. And since Soviets were happily providing Nazis with coal and material up to 1941, Soviets are even more responsible (at least for crimes before 1941), because we were FORCED under a gun, our coal/food/wood was confiscated, while you were just selling. Then there is Babi Yar, which was not stopped by local population, so by your insane logic it means Ukrainians and Russians were extremely tolerant of Nazi crimes.

    Simply put, you are blinded by your hatred towards Poles. You are ignoring Polish partisans (e.g. first Polish partisan, Hubal, fought against Nazis in 1939/1940 when Soviets were still Nazi allies and were happily collaborating in fighting Polish resistance), ignoring the enormous Nazi terror which claimed lifes of million of Poles, and you forget that – contrary to Soviet partisans or French – Poland got almost none supplies by air, no arms, no ammo.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Wally
  313. szopen says:
    @Anon

    There were also Polish partisan units in what is now Belarus. Quite often they were attacked by Soviet partisans, who were also eager to attack local Polish villages (and burn them).

    BTW a funny story. In Vilnius Polish resistance made and uprising to help attacking Soviet units. Soviet welcomed the help, and then invited leaders of Polish partisans to a dinner, captured them and sent to Gulag. Most of partisans were also captured; privates were given a choice: bullet, or volunteering to Soviet army. Very funny, right?

    At the same time Soviet propaganda was claiming Polish resistance does not exist and/or alternatively: that it help Nazis.

  314. @Anon

    I am not writing for that personage (any psychiatrist would tell you that mental disorders are incurable), but for the honest people who read this and comment here.

  315. szopen says:
    @jilles dykstra

    It was overrun in a few weeks more or less just as France was overrun, while France had more soldiers than Poland, one border to defend, more tanks and aircraft, more time to prepare, and help from Great Britain.

    As I wrote above, the reason Poland was overrun is because our high command was utterly incompetent (with very few exceptions). Polish soldiers memories do not treat German soldiers highly. They have respect for tanks, artillery and aircraft, but have rather nonchalant attitude toward German soldiers.

    Of course, the fact that Germans could attack from three sides, have total air supremacy, more tanks, and more soldiers definetely did helped them.

  316. szopen says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Sure. Here is one example of such legal repression: a German officer was shaving, and seeing marching German unit waved to them. Soldiers shot him, thinking he was partisan. After finding out the mistake, they shot few villagers as a repercussion.

    BTW: the chief example of supposed “Polish atrocities” is Bydgoszcz/Bromberg, where German sabotagers started to shoot at Polish army. Yet no revisionist I’ve found ever seem to mention this little fact.

    • Replies: @L.K
  317. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dr. X

    Von Stauffenburg was a Bavarian, from a culture popularly alleged to be the exact opposite of the common view of Prussian culture.

    The master planner of the coup against Hitler was Canaris from North Rhine Westphalia, another south west province with a very different culture from Prussia.

    I’m sure if you look up the other plotters you won’t find that many Prussians.

    The Prussian army ceased to exist in 1871 when Germany unified and the forces became the German army. Granted they German army was organized like a regional national guard but no “Prussian” army fought in WW 1 or 2.

    The whole “ Prussian “ army idea a myth to exonerate the so called good Germans from blame for both world wars.

    Ethnically, the Prussians, Silesians and other east Germans are actually more Slav than German. I’ve seen a lot of them visiting Germany. The cheekbones, noses, hair they look very Polish although they hate to admit it.

    • Replies: @Dr. X
    , @Wally
  318. tamo says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Yes,it was. Unfortunately for the German troops, it didn’t work out.

  319. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    Here is my opinion on the German Russian conflict in WW2. Hitler and Stalin got together and decided to
    have a war so as to split up Eastern Europe between them.

    The Germans lost.

    End of story.

    • Replies: @Wally
  320. tamo says:
    @Joe Wong

    For your information, sometimes it takes more guts to end your life with your hands than simply surrendering, because when you surrender, there is still a chance you might live. Yes, Japanese troops like Germans, Russians and even Americans committed a lot of horrible atrocities. But in my opinion, Japanese, far from being cowards, were extremely brave soldiers. You also should remember that Chinese-KMT troops committed a lot of atrocities against alleged communist sympathizers.

    • Replies: @Anon
  321. Joe Wong says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Chinese fought the beastly barbaric Japanese more than 9 years in WWII before the American decided the punished the Japanese misbehavior that hurt the American interest in the Pacific. Besides there are Japanese war crimes in China to prove Japanese are beastly barbaric war criminals.

    Reading few novels that were glossing over Japanese war crimes and claim you know everything about the Japanese troops, it resembles the blinds telling the shape of an elephant. BTW the Japanese has yet shown remorse about their war crimes, because the Americans are glossing over their war crimes innovatively like those novels.

    • Replies: @L.K
  322. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    You forget that the vast magirity of people killed by Germans in Poland were not Jews or gypsies but Catholic Poles.

    That includes both deaths in the camps and not in the camps. The reason the Auschwitz camp was located in that town was because Auschwitz was the major east west north south railroad terminal with tracks going all over Europe. So access in for prisoners and material and access out for finished goods was easy.

    Remember, until 1944 the Germans were fighting only the Russians in Europe. Setting up war material factories to supply the front against Russia made a lot of sense as the material would get there fast with less fuel consumption something important for a country without gas and oil if it’s own.

    For instance, I knew a woman who was sent to the Warsaw ghetto with her family in 1942. She and her family worked in a Warsaw ghetto factory making warm winter uniforms for the German soldiers fighting in Russia. Obviously it made sense to put that factory closer to the front instead of using precious fuel to ship it from a factory in Germany

    Poland was the only country occupied by the Germans that had no government or civil service if its own. So how could the Poles have collaborated with the Germans? Every official was a German.

    How could an unarmed civilian population overcome the guards and barbed wire in a concentration camp overcome the guards, set the inmates free and then take care of the inmates in a country in which the Germans allowed only 800 calories a day to feed the population?

    You’ve been reading the same Jewish community publications and books as I have about the obligation of an unarmed starved military occupied population to save the Jews who were actively collaborating with the Soviet Russians to take over the country after the war.

    As for the partisans, there were 2 groups in Poland and also in the other German occupied countries.

    One group were genuine nationalist partisans

    The other group were communists. Their main purpose was to kill people who would be leaders in a non communist government after the war.
    The communist partisans were mostly Jews and the real Polish partisans knew exactly what the Jewish communist partisans planned to do after the war.

    That’s why the Polish partisans refused to cooperate with the Jewish communist partisans. As the Russians arrived, the communist Jewish partisans joined the Russians and murdered the Polish partisans because the communists knew those men would try to establish a non communist government after the war ended

    The Jewish communist Russia backed partisans won and destroyed the Polish partisans. Same thing happened in Yugoslavia, Hungary and the rest of the countries that became soviet satellites.

    In the summer of 1944 there was a sort of mini civil war in southern France between the communist partisans and the Gaullist (loyal French nationalist partisans ). The Gaullists won by killing about 10,000 communists before the communists could kill the Gaullists.

    Good for them.

    Blaming the Poles, the French Italians, the Pope and everybody but the Germans for what they claimed happened to Jews in WW2 is just propaganda to prepare for more extortion from every European country including the neutral ones. Holocaust extortion already got neutral Switzerland. Soon the holocaust extortion era will go after Sweden, Spain and Portugal. And probably Brazil because Brazil produced rubber and some of that rubber was used in German tires. And America, Mexico Egypt and India because those countries all produce cotton which was used to make German army clothes.

    Remember, that 300 billion extortion demand from Poland won’t be the last outrageous demand.

    I’m sure that sometime soon the Jewish extortionists will demand seversl trillion from the USA because we didn’t get into the war soon enough, didn’t allow millions of Jews into the US in the 1930s and didn’t invade and occupy Germany for the benefit of the Jews in 1933 the day after Hi Denver appointed Hitler chancellor.

    I read the same Jewish publications you do. Like Mein Kampf, they lay out future Jewish plans for all to read.

    • Agree: Miro23
    • Replies: @Anon
  323. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @tamo

    Too bad the Chinese KMT troops didn’t wipe out the communist sympathizers. Neither the KMT nor the Japanese could fight Mao’s communist army during the war because they were safe and sound hiding out in the mountains close to Mother Russia, waiting till the end when they could swoop down and wipe out the Chinese nationalist government .

    Unbelievable how many people believecommunist propaganda

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @Joe Wong
    , @tamo
  324. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @AnonFromTN

    The incentive for the barrier troops was that they were well behind the Germans, protected by thousands of Russians.

    If the barrier troops did their job, they would be safe from the Germans.

    Alexander the Great used barrier troops or military police the exact same way. Historians claim he invented the concept. Many many armies have used them.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  325. Nick Diaz says:
    @Anon

    You just parroted his argument which I addressed and dismissed. It’s like you didn’t even read my post.

    That Germany lost doesen’t matter. It doesen’t matter because it wasn’t an equal fight, because the countries they fought were much bigger with more resources than they had. What matters is that they fought against much larger countries with a lot more resources and gave them a serious challenge. Given how much smaller Germany was compared to their enemies, they did brilliantly. Why is this so hard for you to understand? Not a difficult concept.

    • Replies: @L.K
    , @Anon
  326. Joe Wong says:
    @Heros

    Comparing “Rape of Nanking” to the “Cultural Revolution” is like comparing “Holocaust” to the “American Civil War”, one is evil and the dark side of mankind and one is an internal struggle to be better, the great side of human beings who are able to self rejuvenation.

    “Rape of Nanking” and “Holocaust” are evil psychopathic criminal invaders perpetrated crimes beyond possible human imagination on hapless unsuspected innocent civilians unwarranted, uninvited and unprovoked. Comparing “Rape of Nanking” to the Culture Revolution makes one wonder the relation of American moral bearing and their unrepentant war crimes around the world.

    Some people may feel awful when looking at those images of suffering victims of the A-bomb and they are right. But for each such photo, there are thousands of unsung untold images of suffering victims of atrocities and beastly acts at the hands of Japanese imperialism.

    I think most Chinese don’t hold grudges of the past, but we are all sure that these two American bombs saved lives and cut short of suffering of many, many millions of people, including millions of Japanese people. And for that we remain all thankful for the wisdom and courage of dropping these two bombs.

    There is no Jews in China, your assertion “Communism was/is just a manifestation of Jewish Power” is simply a fallacy purported by White supreme racist to victimize anyone they don’t like, Fu Manchu is another example.

    China under CCP has raised from dirt poor third world nation to a prosperous and strong world leading power proves communism with Chinese characteristics is better and fair for the 99% than the one you are bubbling that is corrupted, greedy, selfish, feudal and for the 1% only, the “free market capitalist democracy.”

  327. anonymous[107] • Disclaimer says:
    @AnonFromTN

    I know it almost first-hand.

    Is that like almost winning a football match?
    Or coming in second in a basketball game?

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  328. @Anon

    Interesting. Maybe even inventive. One problem, though: does not explain the outcome. Mao’s communists won, KMT ran away to Taiwan. How could that be w/o wide support inside China?

  329. Anon[411] • Disclaimer says:
    @szopen

    Stop saying you like Poland – it’s clear from your posts that you hate us and despise us

    I do indeed like every Pole that I know personally, and while in Poland, I enjoyed communicating with people and see them looking exactly like us Russians. Yet they are fed with nationalistic, russophobic mythology on a daily basis. They desecrate graveyards of Russian soldiers who liberated Poland, and erect statues of Pilsudski who’s legacy caused Polish collapse in WW2, ‘Katyn massacre by Russians’ and Voytyla the Pope who helped so much depopulation of modern Poland and sold it to the West.
    If Polish casualities and resistance in WW2 were so sound, why do we see not a Resistance monument, but Katyn ‘memorial’ in every Polish city – the number of alleged casualities simply does not match the cultural resonance.

    Witold Pilecki

    You give a name of 1 person, and what so about 30 mln others?

    Polish Government-in-Exile

    A bunch of English henchmen who sent thousands to death in outright stupid Warsaw uprising. They are no better than modern White Helmets or ‘Syrian observatory of human rights’ – that utilize Western funding not for their nation, but for serving Western errands.

    Soviets were happily providing Nazis with coal and material up to 1941

    We are talking about death camps, that were inside Poland and largely unknown to Allies befor 1944. The extermination of Jews started in 1942, and Polish local population had every possibility to learn that their Jewish neighbors are taken away, and what happens behind the fence. Polish businesses had contracts to provide food, coal, firewood etc. for these deathcamps and on such permanent basis you may not claim of ‘confiscated food’. If you confiscate food at once, no one would produce it for years.

    The problem is that Polish resistance lacked guns and ammunition

    They had German railroads transferring all the needed ammo. Poles could blow at least one railbridge, or take one supply train. In Belorussia, partisan movement included millions and was armed by many German weapons. Such excuse doesn’t work for 30-mln strong Christian nation with centuries-long good war record.

    ignoring the enormous Nazi terror which claimed lifes of million of Poles

    I recommend you watching ‘Idi i smotri’ to see what is Nazi terror. Somehow, people in Russia, Belorussia and Ukraine managed to fight occupation despite even more enormous terror. No Aushwitz and Maidanek were possible there unlike Poland and the Baltics.

    • Replies: @L.K
    , @szopen
  330. @Anon

    If the barrier troops were meant to prevent regular troops from running back, they must have become active exactly when they were not that far from the frontline and not so well protected. I don’t know about Alexander the Great, all the way to Napoleon the war was not fought along the huge uninterrupted front, the battles were localized. That would make barrier troops effective, but the situation in WWI and WWII was quite different.

  331. @anonymous

    It’s like I know it from the people who actually were there, but I wasn’t there myself: I was born long after WWII ended. The other person’s info is so ridiculously implausible that it could have only come from people who don’t even know any real witness (or could have been pure “comrade Ogilvy” story in 1984). Is that clearer?

  332. Joe Wong says:
    @Anon

    CCP did not beat the KMT, the KMT defeated itself, it was corrupted and rotten to the core, it was looting Chinese and national wealth on behave of the American after the war, the KMT was hated by the Chinese.

    When Japanese surrender, CCP only has tens of thousands of troops in the interior China. The bulk of CCP troops was ex KMT troops, those courageous anti-Japanese Chinese troops simply abandoned the KMT and changed side to the CCP, there was hardly any hard fighting. Later on those same ex-KMT troops beat the American in the Korean War too.

    • Replies: @Anon
  333. L.K says:
    @Joe Wong

    Take your meds, dude. Every time you post about the Japanese it’s like I can mentally picture ya frothing at the mouth…

    You are the Chinese version of the loony team Russia & Polish chauvinist idiots posting here.

    And the “Rape of Nanking” is largely a hoax too, in the sense that the story has been hugely exaggerated by propaganda.

    • Replies: @Joe Wong
  334. L.K says:
    @Nick Diaz

    Thank you for the sane comment.

    In his book ‘The Economics of World War II: Six Great Powers in International Comparison’, Mark Harrison writes:

    In the second period of the war, which began in 1942, economic fundamentals reasserted themselves. The early advantages of the Axis were dissipated in a transition period of stalemate. A war of attrition developed in which the opposing forces ground each other down, with rising force levels and rising losses.

    Superior military qualities came to count for less than superior GDP and population numbers. The greater Allied capacity for taking risks, absorbing the cost of mistakes, replacing losses, and
    accumulating overwhelming quantitative superiority now turned the balance against the Axis. Ultimately, economics determined the outcome.
    3

  335. L.K says:
    @szopen

    Sure, all those German women and children brutally murdered were German spies & saboteurs.

    You are joke.

    • Replies: @szopen
  336. L.K says:
    @Anon

    Hey, Stalinist pig, your heroes did not ‘liberate’ anyone…

    In the case of Poland, they invaded it in September 39, annexed half of it and at the end of the war, the Soviet Union turned Poland – and many other countries – into satellite states of the Soviet Empire.
    Stalin’s Foreign Minister, Vyacheslav M. Molotov’s statement before the Supreme Soviet on October 31, 1939:
    A single blow against Poland, first by the Germans, and then by the Red Army, and nothing remained of this misbegotten child of the Versailles Treaty, which owed its existence to the repression of non-Polish nationalities.’

    And there were NO death camps in Poland. Concentration camps, yes, ‘death’ camps is just propaganda.
    That’s why the subject is the utmost taboo & heavy censorship applied to anyone trying to scrutinize it.

    • Replies: @Anon
  337. L.K says:
    @EugeneGur

    Since you like so much to talk about German invasions/conquest, I wait for you to denounce all of your heroes invasions and annexations during WW2, beginning of course, with Poland 1939.
    BTw, Russia built the 3rd largest empire in human history, only surpassed by the Brits and, long ago, the Mongols.

    eugeneGur

    The German soldiers were good – nobody in Russia ever said they were bad – but they were beaten by a better bread, i.e. the Russia soldier.

    Totally false statement. Here is what Glantz, the US military historian who is biased in favor of the Soviets, and who is often used by team Russia member had to say about the war on the Eastern Front;

    In 1941, his(Stalins) stubbornness and insistence on fighting back cost him a lot, but also ensured that Hitler’s key assumption—that the Red Army would dissolve once it was smashed—didn’t happen. By 1942, after Leningrad and Moscow, Stalin and Marshal Georgi Zhukov think alike. They understand that even if you have to ruthlessly expend manpower, resistance will wear down a numerically weaker opponent. That tactic cost probably 14 million military dead—the price of defeating a more experienced, battle-worthy, savvy Wehrmacht.

  338. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Nick Diaz

    Your heroes lost the war. The purpose of an army is to win a war.

    Germany lost.

  339. tamo says:
    @Anon

    Yes, most of fighting against Japanese was done by the KMT. The CPC should give credit where it’s due.

  340. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Joe Wong

    Yah yah yah, I’ve read as much communist propaganda and histories about the communist takeover of China as you have, probably more.

    The communists hid out in the mountains his out in the mountains while the KMT fought the Japanese alone from 1936?? was it when the communists retreated almost to the Russian border until 1946 when they came out of hiding to fight the exhausted KMT.

    • Replies: @Joe Wong
  341. Anon[411] • Disclaimer says:
    @L.K

    your heroes did not ‘liberate’ anyone…

    Such a drivel may belong not to a pig, but a pork tapeworm, Taenia solium. Denying millons killed in deathcamps, death marches and gassenwagens makes no one more free and happy. We Christians believe that our prayer may save ancestors from hell, so instead denying some Westerners may start praying.

    • Replies: @byrresheim
  342. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:

    This is about the most ridiculous discussion I’ve ever read on Unz with the exception of did just one crew member of the 3 planes hijacked on 9/11 did or did not exist.

    80 Year’s later people who weren’t there but have read lots and lots of very biased histories are posting opinions about how good individual soldiers were in a war the Germans lost lost lost.

    Having read a lot of WW 2 histories when I was younger, I don’t believe one of them is unbiased and objective.

    Weber obviously admires the German soldiers. Well, George Kennan, American diplomat considered the American soldier a dumb hillbilly who read comic books.

    But which dumb hillbilly military won the war in the Pacific with no help from Russia or the other allies.?

    Another thing, the admiration of the strong stalwart German soldiers and their elegant uniforms and esprit de corps and physical fitness and macho brotherhood is kind of faggy.

    In fact dressing up in WW2 German army outfits was and is very popular in gay clubs and parties.

    As Woody Allen joked, War, what is it good for? Destruction of E Europe for 50 Years is what WW2 was good for.

    • Replies: @L.K
  343. stjm says:
    @anon

    Afghanistan attacked “you”? Tell me more.

  344. @Authenticjazzman

    And another thing. You hate Germans to the core of your being… but LIVED there for over half your life?? Incredible. What were you, in a prison camp or something? Couldn’t tear yourself away from the freuleins? I think you’d be better off on the north pole.

    • Agree: L.K
  345. @Authenticjazzman

    Finally,
    ‘my point being that the German mindset of worshipping authority figures, beginning with : professors, which has completely permeated US society, this perverted mindset has enabled the leftists to subvert the total US university system, without being exposed or call-out.’

    This is potentially interesting in a way. I suppose this comes from the Anglo tradition of decidely NOT worshipping (or even showing respect to) authority figures, especially professors. Perhaps this derives from the fact that Brit professors impress far less than their Teutonic kinsfolk. Is there an English equivalent to Neitzsche, Hegel, Kant, Schopenhauer, or Goethe? I can think of Bacon, if that (discounting Locke and Newton, quite possibly both frauds). In another sphere, is there a great authority in England to compare with a Bach or Mozart? Perhaps a Wagner?
    So, it appears to come down to quality and fineness of thought. In other words, perhaps the Germans have truly great men that they can, if not worship, be extremely proud of.
    America’s universities, like everything else, are run by Jews, something you’re surely aware of.

    • Replies: @Authenticjazzman
  346. Cleburne says:
    @Rogue

    Lol. Jake is not too clear on a lot of things, including but not limited to the history of the English Civil War, the Cromwellian protectorate, Puritanism and the meaning of judaizing heresy. That’s one thing the Puritans weren’t, which is obvious to anyone with the slightest grasp of history and theology. He is as shrill and annoying and nasty as Wally, but at least Wally posts all his damn links.

  347. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Joe Wong

    You’re just jealous that after the communists took over China in 1948 the White Anglo Americans pumped trillions of dollars into the Japanese economy and within 10 years turned Japan into one of the wealthiest countries in the world while China was mired in the after effects of war and the difficult adjustment to communism.

    Isn’t difficult adjustment a nice euphism for what went on in China in the 1950s?

    • Replies: @Joe Wong
    , @denk
  348. gdpbull says:

    I knew two German WWII soldiers. They were my dad’s cousins. One was captured in Africa and spent 6 years in an Oklahoma POW camp and the other was captured in Russia and spent 4 years in a gulag. The one captured in North Africa came several times to visit us in the 80s with his wife. He was just a guy and was like a brother to my dad. I met the other cousin in Germany in 1970. He was just a guy who was also like a brother to my dad.

    My dad came to the US in 1923. He was drafted during WWII when he was 40 years old. He wanted to be sent to the Pacific but they sent him to Europe. He was in a tank destroyer unit and was in the battle of the bulge and many lesser known battles. He fought his own people so to speak. He was just a guy doing his duty for his country just like his cousins were for their country. Yes, the Germans were the aggressors, but most of the fighters were just guys doing their duty for their country. My dad was a very kind gentle soul. But if he had not come to the US in 1923 he would have been considered one of those murderous hateful German killers. Except he really would not have been. He was already an adult when he left Germany and his personality was already set.

    • Replies: @L.K
  349. Joe Wong says:
    @Anon

    CCP retreated to the Russian border until 1946 is a new fake news I first time heard, it is more creative than landing on the moon or Taliban blew up the Twin Towers in 9/11.

    • Replies: @Anon
  350. Joe Wong says:
    @L.K

    Japanese are basically introvert without a sense of belonging to Asia community for they don’t mix with the locals in any other foreign countries they are based.  The society itself is a cult like horde, racist and prejudice against immigrants from any country especially from the Asia countries.  

    With the declining population, the curtain is finally closing for Japan as it gradually turn itself into a semi hermit nation as what they were before the Meiji period (1868 – 1912)

    For over seventy years the US has dominated Asia, ravaging the continent with two major wars in Korea and Indo-China with millions of casualties, and multiple counter-insurgency interventions in Indonesia, Thailand, Malaysia, the Philippines, Timor, Myanmar, Pakistan and Afghanistan. The strategic goal has been to expand its military and political power, exploit the economies and resources and encircle China.

    Before WWII, the American is just one of the Western imperialists ravaged and wreaked havoc of Asia with barbaric wars, illicit drugs like Opium, slavery, stealing, robbing, looting, plundering, murdering, torturing, exploiting, polluting, culture genocide, ‘pious’ fanaticism, unmatchable greed and extreme brutality. In fact it is hard to tell the difference between the American and the unrepentant war criminal Japanese who is more lethal and barbaric to Asians until the Pearl Harbour incident.

    • Replies: @Anon
  351. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Joe Wong

    Even CP Snow and the rest of the extreme pro Mao historians claim that the communists hid out until the war was over and then, with a lot of Russian help attacked and wiped out the KMT.

    • Replies: @Joe Wong
  352. Anglo-American popular culture stereotypes Germany’s WW2 soldiers as dimwitted brutes who fought mindlessly for “ze Führer” so of course that means, in reality, they were the exact opposite. Who needs nuance anyway…binary “thinking” is good enough for computers so it should be good enough for us.

    My grandfather was a Wehrmacht soldier in that war. He was not a Nazi and did not like Hitler, but neither was he a radical leftist, and lived in a small town surrounded by mountains and farms. He was an “ordinary guy” working and providing for his family and not big on politics in general. It has become almost taboo these to say the ranks of the German army and navy were not made up of die hard Hitler acolytes who signed up to kill Jews or Slavs for the glory of the Reich. No doubt those types existed but there were also ordinary men who did what men did, and still largely do in many parts of the world, when their country called upon them to fight: they signed up and went to war, did what they had to do, and if they were still alive and sane at the end they went home again and tried to carry on as before. My grandfather did not talk very much about the war but there is no doubt he was deeply affected by his experience and thought it best to keep those emotions locked away where they could not interfere with his well being.

    Anyway, back to the point. My grandfather was not a simpleminded moron, but he wasn’t by any stretch a genius war fighter. He was probably a “good enough” soldier which I suspect is the case for most enlisted men. Was the average German grunt in any practical sense smarter or “better” than his American or Brit counterparts? It’s a silly question with no objective answer. By almost every metric the US military was “better” than the NVA and the Vietcong. Yet only by turning Vietnam into glass could America have decisively won that war. Even the massive indiscriminate carpet bombing of Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos didn’t yield a victory.

    Likewise, arguing over which country fielded “the best” soldiers in WW2 is a strictly academic exercise in mental masturbation with zero relevance in the real world.

    • Replies: @L.K
    , @DFH
  353. Joe Wong says:
    @Anon

    Before WWII, the American is just one of the Western imperialists ravaged and wreaked havoc of Asia with barbaric wars, illicit drugs like Opium, slavery, stealing, robbing, looting, plundering, murdering, torturing, exploiting, polluting, culture genocide, ‘pious’ fanaticism, unmatchable greed and extreme brutality. In fact it is hard to tell the difference between the American and the unrepentant war criminal Japanese who is more lethal and barbaric to Asians until the Pearl Harbour incident.

    It is a farce that the WWII was about liberty. WWII was a game among the Western imperialists to reestablish their pecking order around the world, and the Pacific war between the American and the Japanese was part of the game. After squeezing the British out of the world hegemony throne in the WWII, the American embarked on empire building after the war, rearming the Japanese was just part of the process to make the Jap returning to their former American pitbull running dog role in the ruling of Asia.

    Japanese sunk two ships of gold and silver they looted and stole all over Asia during the WWII in the Tokyo Bay, Japanese gave the American half of the loot in exchange for the right of rebuilding their nation after the war.

  354. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Joe Wong

    Yo must be an American college student who learned what you are writing in high school and college.

    That’s the result of 60 years of liberal take over of the teachers associations, the US department of education and academia.

    The same unholy trinity has now produced lesson plans in which elementary school children are taught they they are not really boys or girls but that the teachers will help them decide their gender.

    There are probably more fake boys and men joining high school and college women’s sport teams than there are trans gender people in the entire country.

  355. Anon[411] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    One should always take in account the points you mention, adding that maybe Poles were so overwhelmed right after 1939 and disconnected or misinformed all the way until 1944. Yet the scale and history of the 30-mln Polish nation simply don’t sum up.

    Poland was the only country occupied by the Germans that had no government or civil service if its own. So how could the Poles have collaborated with the Germans? Every official was a German.

    The Polish nation was rather strong and inventive to stage uprisings of 1794, 1830, 1863 and 1918 with getting leaders, arms and tactics – all under non-Polish governance and occupation by superior powers. Or these uprisings were also sponsored by state actors hostile to their masters (Russians and Germans)?

    That’s why the Polish partisans refused to cooperate with the Jewish communist partisans.

    So did many other Poles in other historic epochs – like Anglophiles vs. Francophiles etc. – yet they still fought their masters. So did partisans in other countries – e.g. in Belorussia and Ukraine there were people more or less loyal to Soviets and Stalin himself, yet hardcore communists and bandits – all ran to the forests and fought Nazism. Among big nations one may always fight a victim, a survivor, a hero partisan and a collaborator. Thinking about 30 mln of Poles during ww2, we see very small proportion of hero partisans.

    How could an unarmed civilian population overcome the guards and barbed wire in a concentration camp overcome the guards,

    The most manly men of civilian population disarm local policemen and run to the woods to form a core of partisan movement. Others follow, getting more arms, destroying the bridges, looting the supply trains and liberating camps. That’s how they did it in neighboring Belorussia.

    I’m sure that sometime soon the Jewish extortionists will demand seversl trillion from the USA

    I am strongly against such demand and find it only a pretext to further manipulate Poland. Their new NATO masters could demand permanent land concessions or impose their new General-Governorate rule replacing ‘local democracy’ or deploy new migrant ghettos.

  356. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Joe Wong

    You don’t know the history of China do you? See if you can find a DVD or book The Three Kingdoms civil war if you are interested in treachery, torture and brutality.

    Then check out the 1830 to 186o Tianem rebellion civil war. With the exception of a few priests like Father Matteo who was appointed prime minister in the 1500s, Europeans didn’t come near China until 1800 except for the Portuguese confined to a tiny colony in Macao.

    Wherever you learned your Chinese history, it’s obvious you didn’t learn much. In fact it’s right out of Mao’s 1960s cultural revolution isn’t it?

    It goes like this: China was a paradise on earth, there were no wars or invasions everyone was happy and peaceful and prosperous.

    Then suddenly in 1840 or so the White devils invaded and totally destroyed China until the great God Mao swept down from the mountains and destroyed the White Devils and their running dog the KMT.

  357. L.K says:
    @Anon

    Troll Anon[257] and obviously a member of Team ZUSA:

    This is about the most ridiculous discussion I’ve ever read on Unz with the exception of did just one crew member of the 3 planes hijacked on 9/11 did or did not exist bla, bla..

    And yet, here you are… So what the f are you doing here? I mean, besides trolling…

    Troll Anon[257]:

    Having read a lot of WW 2 histories when I was younger, I don’t believe one of them is unbiased and objective.

    You got that right, the various victors wrote the “history”, each contributing their own spin. Duh.

  358. L.K says:
    @Lincoln Blockface Squarebeard III

    Likewise, arguing over which country fielded “the best” soldiers in WW2 is a strictly academic exercise in mental masturbation with zero relevance in the real world.

    As far as military affairs are concerned, It really is not, and your statement shows you don’t have any idea what you are talking about.

    Do you really think that US Col. T. Dupuy and his associates and successors set up research institutes dedicated to the study and analysis of armed conflicts just as ‘exercise in mental masturbation’??
    The title of one of his books should provide you with a clue:

    Numbers, prediction, and war: using history to evaluate combat factors and predict the outcome of battles.

  359. denk says:
    @jim jones

    uncle Charley [RIP]

    Chinese strategy, as discussed in their own military journals, is to develop the ability to defeat us in their immediate vicinity. That means clearly that if we keep our nose out of their affairs, no military clashes are likely to occur.

    http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2001-04-22/news/0104210037_1_war-with-china-military-buildup-fight-wars

    So many anti war yanks like Charley Reese died at their prime , somebody should do an autopsy on uncle Charley,

    Here’s the original ‘eight nations alliance’

    The current coalition of killing is fukusIndia, France, uk, us, jp, oz, india.

    https://sputniknews.com/europe/201806041065096082-france-britain-sending-ships-south-china-sea/

    fukus the ring leader , as usual.

    The two perennial white men’s lapdogs , India and jp, are still sucking up to their masters, no surprise there.

    France is the new kid in town.

    8nations sans Russia./Germany.

    So you wanna drag the Germans in again ?

    listen to the wise one,

    uncle Charley.

    You STILL Want To Go To War With China?

    you blockheads go fight instead of sending someone else if you are such grand warriors.

    hehehehhe

  360. L.K says:
    @gdpbull

    Yes, the Germans were the aggressors, but most of the fighters were just guys doing their duty for their country.

    That’s the victor’s propaganda line we are endlessly fed, of course.

    For a bit of reality – never too late to step out of the matrix – watch the following documentary
    Hitler’s War – What the Historians Neglect to Mention

    If you can read German try
    Die Ursachen des Zweiten Weltkrieges: ein Grundriß der internationalen Diplomatie von Versailles bis Pearl Harbor by Dr. Post and/or
    1939. Der Krieg, der viele Väter hatte by Gerd Schultze-Rhonhof.
    In English, though not nearly as complete and still biased, try P. Buchanan’s Churchill, Hitler, and The Unnecessary War.

  361. denk says:
    @Anon

    China is a sovereign country, jp is a murkkan vassal.

    Talking about the proverbial drooling lapdog,

    here’s a classic.….

    https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/senator-marco-rubio-is-greeted-by-japanese-prime-minister-shinzo-abe-picture-id464128715

    FFS,
    Rubio is just a god damned senator.

    Chinese envy of jp ?
    You kidding me ?

    I’d be ashamed to be a jp these days.

    The jp’s samurai forebears must be turning in their graves.

    hehehheheh

    P.S.
    how’s the weather over at New Delhi today. ?

    P.S.
    Something wrong with the site ?
    lots of difficulties posting.

  362. Wally says:
    @Anon

    Yeah, sure.

    This is you.

    If your head is in the sand, your ass is in the air

    http://www.codoh.com

  363. szopen says:
    @Anon

    (1) “If Polish casualities and resistance in WW2 were so sound, why do we see not a Resistance monument,” – we see resistance monuments too.

    (2) There is no Katyń memorial in every city.

    (3) “You give a name of 1 person, and what so about 30 mln others? ” You mean I should enumerate names of all hundreds of thousands of Poles who were sabotageurs, worked for intelligence, were partisans and so on? The largest group, AK, had about390 thousands sworn members. They made 2300 attacks on German transport, blew up 1300 trains, fought in more than 6000 larger partisan battles and skirmishes and made tens of thousands of smaller armed actions – and there were also other groups, such us NSZ or GL.

    First Polish partisans fought in 1939, when Soviets were still collaborating with Nazis.

    (3) “Poles could blow at least one railbridge, or take one supply train. ” And we did blew up more than one railbridge or supply train.

    (4) “We are talking about death camps, that were inside Poland and largely unknown to Allies befor 1944.” That’s a lie. Polish government was continously informing allied governments.

    (5) “I recommend you watching ‘Idi i smotri’ to see what is Nazi terror” I saw the movie. You forget that there were also hundreds of Polish villages wiped from the earth. The exact number of Poles murdered by Nazis is unknown, but the estimations are about 3 millions non-Jewish Poles.

    Seems to me you are brainwashed by communist propaganda, which for years pretended Polish partisans were all commies and AK did nothing. Poles DID fight with Nazis, it just it took time to organize the armed forces.

    ” No Aushwitz and Maidanek were possible”

    Instead there was Babi Yar – a concentration camp and place of shooting. Somehow, Soviet partisans had not tried attacking the place. And of course there was one death camp in Belarus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maly_Trostenets_extermination_camp) and yet Soviet partisans have not attacked the camp.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Anon
  364. Wally says:
    @szopen

    Yawn. And we’re still waiting for proof of all of that silly made up nonsense.

    Here’s more proof of the holocau$t. LOL

    The ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    see the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here:http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

  365. szopen says:
    @L.K

    I am not saying they were. I am pointing your hipocrisy. You say it was legal to murder Polish women and children (and indeed, to wipe out whole villages) because of partisan actions. Yet you scream to heaven about the crime when during chaotic days 3-4 September some German women died – when it is not even generally accepted they were really killed by Poles – and when by your own logic, it would be justified as repercussion.

  366. @tamo

    This traits you describe were certainly true of the Japanese soldiers. However, what they had in discipline, tenacity, and fearlessness was held back by a lack of tactical imagination. Japanese infantry tactics pretty much boiled down to “when in doubt, human wave assault”.

    • Replies: @tamo
  367. DFH says:
    @Lincoln Blockface Squarebeard III

    Anglo-American popular culture stereotypes Germany’s WW2 soldiers as dimwitted brutes who fought mindlessly for “ze Führer” so of course that means, in reality, they were the exact opposite

    But it doesn’t

    • Replies: @utu
  368. @daniel le mouche

    When I say “worshiping authorities figures” I do not mean such revered individuals as Mozart, or Bach, who actually do deserve societal reverence, what I do mean is that the Germans have a propensity for worshiping and deifying judges, attorneys, clergy, politicians, journalists, medicos, artists, etc, meaning they bow down before the most odious BSers, and obviously you are not able to get my point due to youR lack of insight and your low IQ status.
    One of the main objections the Germans have to DT is he is not a “genuine” politician.

    AJM

    • Replies: @daniel le mouche
  369. utu says:
    @DFH

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/event/article-2656189/WW2-The-British-Tommy-fight-frequent-cuppa-breaks-SS-sadistic-fanatics-True-false-Britains-leading-war-historian-tackles-greatest-myths-WW2.html

    Sappers, as a Canadian observed, did not believe it was their task to fire at the enemy when not engaged on an engineering task, and infantry refused to help ‘fill a crater or get a vehicle out of difficulties’.

    There was little of that attitude in either the German or the American army. And of course the regimental system itself encouraged a sense of parochialism.

    The Germans quickly observed that the British were resolute and brave in defence, but often over-cautious in attack. Perhaps a historic psychology might have been at work.

    Unlike the German Army, junior British officers were never really trained to take over in the event of superiors becoming casualties.

    And British Army doctrine led to over-prescriptive orders, which in the view of German and American observers made it almost impossible for the commander on the ground to exploit an opportunity.

    British officers were taught to consolidate first, but this inevitably put the emphasis on the occupation of a position rather than the destruction of the enemy.

    ‘The British would stop when they reached the objective, even if there was no opposition beyond it,’ General Jodl said just after the end of the war.

    ‘The psychological casualties on the Allied side were high. Both American and British army psychiatrists were struck by the fact that except at the end of the battle for Normandy, comparatively few German prisoners appeared to be suffering from combat fatigue, in spite of enduring more intensive shelling and bombing.

    • Replies: @DFH
  370. utu says:
    @Anon

    and my grandfather was awarded a medal for liberating Poland from Nazis

    Did he get the medal from Nazis for ‘liberation’ of Poland in 1939? Is he somewhere on this film?

    And how many writs watches and clocks did he bring back from Poland and Germany?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-564643/How-iconic-photo-Russians-raising-flag-burning-Berlin-airbrushed-save-soldier-Stalins-rage.html

  371. utu says:
    @Anon

    All major deathcamps were located in Poland, and Poland provided full supply from raw materials and food, to coal and firewood to burn the inmates.

    You forgot about Polish oxygen. The ‘caust’ in the Holocaust needs oxygen. Basic chemistry. Those awful Poles could just have turned the oxygen off and there would be no Holocaust. It was really that simple. Maybe they haven’t thought of it because, you know, the Polacks are dumb or they just wanted the Holocaust keep going. Yeah, that’s a ticket.

  372. DFH says:
    @utu

    No stereotype is mentioned in that article of the Germans being incompetent. It isn’t a stereotype that exists (at least that I’ve ever seen) in Britain (or America).

  373. utu says:
    @Andrew E. Mathis

    Wally was correct. The copy of the plan ‘that is usually meant when the Generplan Ost is referred to in secondary literature’ has not been found. It is only down from commentary by Dr Erhard Wetzel of Rosenberg’s Ostministerium, dated 27 April 1942.

    https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=90383

    The 1996 MA thesis by Karsten Schulz “Nationalsozialistische Nachkriegskonzeptionen für die eroberten Gebiete Osteuropas vom Januar 1940 bis zum Januar 1943″, presented at the Berlin Technical University Institute for Political Science, contains a detailed exposition of the various versions of the Generalplan Ost, as well as of other, competing plans for German rule over the conquered Soviet territories put forward by Rosenberg’s Ministry for the Occupied Eastern Territories, the German Labour Front, and some individuals.

    It appears that there were six versions of the Generalplan Ost, which need to be carefully distinguished from each other in terms of what they actually propose. Four of them were prepared by the planning staff of the Reichskommissariat für die Festigung deutschen Volkstums (RKF), headed by Professor Konrad Meyer-Hetling. and two by the RSHA, specifically by Standartenführer Ehlich, head of Gruppe III B Volkstum of Abteilung III Sicherheitsdienst-Inland.

    The six variants were:

    1. The Generalplan of the RKF, dating from about January 1940. This is preserved in a document bearing the title “Planungsgrundlagen für den Aufbau der Ostgebiete”, and deals only with the planned germanisation of the annexed western Polish territories (Danzig-Westpreußen, Wartheland, Zichenau, Suwalki, Ost-Oberschlesien).

    2. Generalplan Ost of the RKF, dated 15 July 1941. The plan itself has not been found, and is known only from a covering minute from Meyer-Hetling to Himmler with the above date. Judging from material contained in the unpublished autobiography of Professor Meyer-Hetling, in addition to the annexed territories included in the Generalplan, it proposed German settlement in the east of the Generalgouvernement, thereby encircling the ethnic Polish population. The estimated settler requirement is 4.55 million persons over 30 years.

    3. Generalplan Ost of the RSHA, dated toward the end of 1941 or the beginning of 1942. The plan itself has never been found, but its main points can be reconstructed from the detailed (and highly critical) commentary on it by Dr Erhard Wetzel of Rosenberg’s Ostministerium, dated 27 April 1942.

    This is the plan that is usually meant when the Generplan Ost is referred to in secondary literature. It is the plan that, judging from Wetzel’s comments, proposed the resettlement in West Siberia of 31 million (including 5-6 million Jews) of the estimated 45 million non-German inhabitants of the specific areas designated for German settlement, over a period of 30 years. The plan calls for the settlement of 10 million Germans on the territory, consisting of Danzig- Westpreußen, Wartheland, Oberschlesien, Generalgouvernement, South Ostpreußen, Bialystok, the Baltic States, Ingermanland, Weißruthenien and some areas in Ukraine.

    Wetzel is highly critical of the RSHA plan and clearly considers it infeasible, although he supports the concept of germanisation of territory and the deportation of population groups considered hostile to Germany. He proposes alternative actions, which are most probably to be regarded as representing the views of Rosenberg. There is no indication that this plan was ever given official approval in full by either Himmler or Hitler.

    4. The Gesamtplan Ost of the RSHA. The existence of this plan can only be inferred indirectly; it is referred to in a letter of 12 June 1942 from Himmler to Ulrich Greifelt, head of the RKF. It also seems that certain of the comments made by Wetzel in April 1942 refer to this extended plan rather than the original RSHA plan.

    The Gesamtplan Ost of the RSHA extended the area of proposed German settlement to the line Lake Ladoga – Valdai Heights – Briansk, and added as settlement areas Zhytomyr, Kamianets-Podilsk and parts of Vynnytsia.

    5. The later Generalplan Ost of the RKF. This is known from a document of 71 pages dated 28 May 1942. In addition to the germanisation of the Polish territories annexed to the Reich, it proposes the establishment of three “borderlands” (Marken), Ingermanland, Narew-West Lithuania, and Gotengau (Crimea and Kherson province), and of 36 settlement bases, 14 in the GG, 14 in Ostland, and 8 in Ukraine. The period for the proposed resettlement is 25 years. The plan also gives a detailed estimate of the costs of the proposed ethnic German settlement, totals of 45.7 billion RM for the annexed Polish territories and 20.9 billion for the borderlands and bases, the greater part of which is to be raised by borrowing in the private capital market.

    Nowhere does this plan talk of deporting any part of the existing non-German population to Siberia. Rather, it proposes the resettling of the population of land required for German settlement on alternative kolkhozes and sovkhozes within the area under German rule; the rationale for that mild treatment is stated to be the need to retain the cooperation of the native population. The previous method of “evacuation” is explicitly rejected. The desired level of germanisation will be reached when 50% of the population of the borderlands is ethnically German, and 25-30% of the population of the bases. The process of germanisation is estimated to take 25 to 30 years.

    6. The “Generalsiedlungsplan” (global settlement plan) of the RKF. This is known from a preliminary draft dated 23 December 1942, written by Greifelt. There appears never to have been a final draft.

    The plan defines a “Volksraum” with seven settlement areas: Luxemburg, Lorraine, Alsace, Upper Carinthia, Lower Styria, Bohemia-Moravia and the Incorporated Eastern Territories annexed from Poland. To that is added an “Ostsiedlungsraum” divided into six future Gaus, Litzmannstadt, Krakau, Lemberg, Lublin, Warschau und Bialystock. The Baltic area is increased through the addition of Pleskau (Pskov) and Ingermanland (the latter atributed to Estonia), but is not considered part of the “Ostsiedlungsraum”, for unknown reasons.

    The plan proposes a future population of around 23.1 million persons in the settlement areas of the Volksraum and in the Ostsiedlungsraum, consisting of an existing ethnic German population of 5.3 million, a residual germanised native population of 5.4 million, and 12.4 million German immigrants. As the existing population is 36.3 million, of which 5.6 million are already German(Reich citizens, ethnic Germans, settlers) and 5.4 million are germanisable natives, the plan implies the deportation of around 25 million persons, although such a deportation is not explicitly mentioned.

    The same applies to the Baltic area. Of a population of 7.2 million, of which hardly any are considered German, 2.1 million are considered germanisable; the remaining 5.1 million disappear. 3.1 million German settlers are required to bring the total population back up to 5.2 million.

    Thus, the deportation of a total of around 30 million non-Germans out of the settlement areas of the Volksraum, the Ostsiedlungsraum and the Baltic area is implied in the plan.

    On 12 January 1943, Himmler demanded the inclusion of the Baltic area, the Crimea and Tauria in the “Ostsiedlungsraum”. However, the events surrounding the fall of Stalingrad put all further planning activity on hold.

    With regard to the question of whether any of the above plans could have been implemented in reality if Germany had retained control of the conquered territories, the thesis has this to say:

    The global planning was based on conquered territory in the East, therefore they assume a victorious war or at least territorial gains able to be held with a reduced military expenditure. That was not the case, apart from the global plan of 1940. Thus, it is no wonder that the plans had to remain utopian. Whether they indeed would have remained pipedreams divorced from reality, as Heiber believes, or whether according to Wasser “it [can] be conclusively assumed that, in the case where National Socialist Germany had remained victorious, Heinrich Himmler’s SS would have implemented the “GPO” also in its full extent – no matter how utopian it may appear today”, canot be decided with absolute certainty. Rather it is to be supposed that, corresponding with changes in the total situaiton, further modifications would have occurre

    The Heiber referred to is Helmut Heiber, author of “Der Generalplan Ost”, in: Vierteljahreshefte Für Zeitgeschichte, 6, 1958, pp. 281ff. Heiber was a very respected German historian connected to the prestigious Institut für Zeitgeschichte in MUnich; he died a couple of years ago.

    If such an experienced historian as Heiber judges that the variants of the Generalplanost were all “realitätsferne Hirngespinste” (pipedreams divorced from reality) then his opinion should be given some weight, and not simply dismissed by some jumped up petty dictator on the Forum staff.

    With regard to the question of whether any of the variants of the plan were officially approved and put into practice, the thesis concludes:

    It must be borne in mind that there was no definitive version accepted by Himmler which could have legitimated an implementation. So we must proceed from the position that, failing the extremely unlikely proving of the opposite by means of an appropriate discovery of a source, the variants of the GPO never went beyond the planning stage.

    The discussion about practicability or partial implementations that had already occurred continues to mask the fact that Himmler wanted “to hand this global plan over to the Führer at some point in time”, ie he needed the latter’s agreement or at least saw it as important.

    These days the tendency is to overestimate the importance of the global plans.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  374. utu says:
    @szopen

    You are too rational, too sensible and too civil to engage in discussion with this character. He should be either ignored or drown in the manure he is spilling here.

  375. Joe Wong says:
    @Anon

    Your narrative is the new revisionist version in the last 75 years. Anglo is a race of fake news, perhaps you will say CCP hid out in Siberia until 1949, and the American forced KMT to hand over mainland to CCP for the goodness of American benevolence?

  376. tamo says:
    @Count de Money

    Japanese engaged in human wave charges only as a last resort because the Japanese infantry doctrine discouraged frontal attacks as much as possible. When you are out of munitions and armaments, you just do what you have to do because surrendering was not an option for the Japanese. The most devastating problem with the Japanese was the vastly inferior weapons and equipment they had, compared to the Allies. This fundamental military defect negatively influenced what Japanese military could achieve in tactics and strategy. So Japanese soldiers tried to do their best with what they had. Considering the inferior weapons and equipment they had to work with, Japanese troops performed very well. But Japanese soldiers were very innovative and many times used unique tactics. For example,they used tanks in the jungles of the South East Asia when western military thought it was impossible. The thing is Japanese made their tanks very light so that they could maneuver them in the jungles. Also Japanese troops used bicycles to transport themselves and supplies to go through the jungle terrains in the Malay Peninsula and Japanese soldiers were better than the Allied soldiers at night fighting because Japanese troops used their unique night fight tactics and they also kept a small number of cavalry soldiers to act as messengers when radio communication was impossible.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Count de Money
  377. @utu

    ” If such an experienced historian as Heiber judges that the variants of the Generalplanost were all “realitätsferne Hirngespinste” (pipedreams divorced from reality ”

    He was completely right, what I do not see mentioned is that Hitler was not at all interested in these plans.
    He had other worries.

  378. Z-man says:
    @jilles dykstra

    They would have made a deal with the Brits and Americans sooner to thwart Uncle Joe and the Commies.

  379. peterAUS says:
    @tamo

    ….unique night fight tactics …..

    Such as?

    What was so unique in that tactics that other soldiers, in that theater, weren’t using?

    Regular troops I mean, not special forces.

    British Commandos, US Rangers did it well too.
    For this particular topic, Soviets were quite good in their night raids.
    Last, but definitely not least, partisan movements in Europe. They operated in night most of the time; sometimes, especially Tito’s Partisans, were quite good in brigade size attacks on town size strong points at night.

    So, what was so unique about Japanese?

    • Replies: @tamo
  380. Anon[411] • Disclaimer says:
    @szopen

    Besides Poles that simply did nothing to help Jews, they were:
    1) Poles that handed to Germans the Jews that eventually managed to escape Beljez deathcamp. Polish historian Prof. Grabowski lists about 500 Jews that fell victims of real Polish manhunt.
    2) Jews that became victims of Polish pogroms of 1941, and many Poles faced German court for committing atrocities, pillaging and murder.
    3) Jews that became victims of Polish pogroms of 1945-1946 when no Nazis were anymore present. From thousands of Jewish holocaust survivors in 1945, only few hundreds were alive in 1960s. Poles used to strange or stone Jewish women and elderly, or just used steel tubes and rods to beat them to the death. Having such anti-Jewish sentiment in mind, one may get better understanding of Nazi deathcamps in Poland.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @szopen
  381. @tamo

    I meant in no way to denigrate and it is true that Japanese soldiers did very well with what they had. General Yamashita’s capture of Singapore, even though outnumbered, stunned the British because the Japanese were able to traverse terrain that the British thought impassable.

    The dedication of the average Japanese soldier was close to fanatical. Think about the soldier in the Philippines who was ordered to remain at his post and did so for 27 years. When he was discovered, he refused to believe that the war was over. They eventually had to track down his commanding officer who they flew to the Philippines to tell him that he completed his assignment and could return back to Japan. That’s dedication.

    Yet, it’s no good to gloss over issues. At the Battle of Port Arthur in the Russo-Japanese War, the Japanese often made fruitless assaults against prepared positions, taking tremendous casualties. They often did the same thing at the Battle of Guadalcanal. One can say that once is bad luck, but twice is a pattern. Also, as related in General Tojo’s memoirs, he laments that command and control was a big issue in the Japanese Army with junior officers often ignoring or going against orders from their superiors.

    • Replies: @tamo
  382. JackOH says:

    How about this:

    German soldiers. Fought for National Socialism. Redistribution and national reinvigoration by race. Lost war. Mistakes were made.

    Soviet soldiers. Fought for Bolshevism. Massive redistribution by dissolution of Western values. Won war. Mistakes were made.

    Western soldiers. Fought for liberal republics. Syncretic governance scheme combining paper representation and civil liberties, rhetorical fascism permitted official identity groups, redistribution both directly and circumstantially, by, for example, playing Blacks against Whites, measured dissolution of Western values. Won war. Mistakes were made.

    Whew! I’m getting serious WWII burnout.

  383. utu says:
    @Anon

    From thousands of Jewish holocaust survivors in 1945, only few hundreds were alive in 1960s.

    (3) So what happened in America, Israel, Sweden to the Polish Jews? Did they all succumb to some disease there? Most Jews (100-120,000) left Poland right after war by 1948, then many (50,000) mostly communist Jews left after 1956 and then 25,000 left in 1968-69. In total out of circa 180-240,000 who survived the war (according to the official count) majority left Poland. Official count of Jews in 1980s in Poland was around 5,000-10,000.

    (2) There was the case of Jedwabne. Allegations (by Jan Gross) were that 1,600 Jews we killed in one barn (they do not have that big barns in this poor region of Poland) but exhumations that were not finished unfortunately showed that there were bullets which means that Germans were present (unlike what Gross alleged) and that the number was much smaller. Also the monument of your Lenin was buried with them which explains what was the possible animus of the anti-Jewish feelings. These were anti-communist feelings and feelings one has for the traitors of Poland and certainly Germans played on it. The Poles who were involved were resentful that during 22 years of Soviet occupations some (way too many) Jews were capos for the NKVD and were making lists of Poles to be arrested and deported. You should be able to relate to it. You Soviets executed at least 240,000 your own people during the war.

    (1) Haven’t read Grabowski book so I won’t comment on it.

    So, tell us what is your problem with Poland? That Poles do not like Soviets or Russians? Are you one of those Sovoks with a very thin skin and easily hurt ego who can’t handle rejection? That’s pretty much your Russian/Soviet MO that you want to be loved by people you subjugated. Don’t you think it’s weird? You want them be grateful for some imaginary deeds you made for them while enslaving them. You know that you Russians have never managed to assimilate and Russified any other culture you subjugated except for some Siberian tribes. You can only rule by force. And yet, you poor Russian still want to be loved. Yes, we all need love. We understand it. Even psychopaths need love. But they rarely find it. You need to be realistic.

    Perhaps you should concentrate on the fact that USSR started the war in Sep, 1939 on the side of Hitler whom they supplied with a lot resources for 22 months. Perhaps you should concentrate on that Russians comprised the “largest contingent of foreign auxiliary troops on the German side with upwards of 1 million men” fighting on the side of Hitler. There were times that on the Western Front that over 10% of German POWs were citizens of the USSR and there was a problem how to evacuate them back to USSR. Who manned many concentration camps: Ukrainians. Belorussians? Who else? What about S.S. Sturmbrigade R.O.N.A., the brigade of Russian murders? Vlasov? That you committed the first great atrocity of the WWII? For which you have never been punished.

    The first step in the recovery process in the Sovok Anonymous is acknowledgment that you are a Sovok. Yes, I am a Sovok. By pointing a finger at others three fingers are always pointing back at you. You won’t make progress by pointing fingers at others. You will be trapped in the hell of your hates just because you are in denial of reality, of your own history, of the fact that people have good reasons not like you.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @szopen
  384. utu says:
    @Wally

    Wally, You are really an idiot running on autopilot.

    • Agree: szopen
    • Replies: @Wally
  385. utu says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Executing civilians for acts of resistance was legal in WWII.

    It was not illegal under some circumstances where reprisal were permissible but they must be done in some orderly manner. Not and act of blind and furious revenge by a mob of soldiers. Furthermore we are talking about atrocities not war crimes.

  386. Anon[411] • Disclaimer says:
    @utu

    Yes, I am a Sovok. By pointing a finger at others three fingers are always pointing back at you.

    You seem to be not just a ‘Sovok’ ousted from paradise and blaming its owner, current inhabitants and guardian angels, but a person still roaming in the maze of Soviet childhood. Blaming the grown-ups doesn’t make you adult. Juggling with wikipedia has its limits too.

    • Replies: @utu
  387. Corvinus says:
    @Chris Mallory

    “Germans are a sheep like peoples, unable to live without a higher authority telling them what to do. They brought this to the US and helped destroy the freedoms our Founders left to us. A pox upon all Germans . We should have sank every ship bringing Germans to the US.”

    What an absolutely hostile comment against white people. Tens of millions of Americans who lay claim to that ethnicity in the United States, potential allies against Jews and Cultural Marxism and globalist elites, and then you and your guy pal Authenticjazzman have the gall to unilaterally declare German-Americans as an enemy.

    What about the infants on those boats? Would it bring you satisfaction that their precious lives had been snuffed out? Would not the American experience been devoid of German culinary creations and technological innovations?

    More importantly, how do you rectify your statement with the Word of God when it comes to the sanctity of human life?

    • Agree: Josep
  388. utu says:
    @Anon

    We both know that Russia is under the attack. We both know that there are many people outside of Russia who are rooting for Russia and hope that Russia will not fold. They hope that strong Russia will be able to temper the excessive power and arrogance of the Anglo-Zio empire. Russia needs all help it can get. It needs to have better soft power which is PR, image and perception. All your activity here so far that I have seen undermines the good will some people may have for Russia. Muscle flexing and talking shit might be good when you want to boost your self-inage while talking with your Russian drinking buddies. But this not good for export. Consume this shit in Russia and do not let anybody hear it. But if do not care, I am here for you. You want to air the dirty laundry we will see who got worse skid marks on his underwear.

  389. @Authenticjazzman

    When I read your comments, I’ve often thought, ‘Only in America.’ Just your stupid little, ‘Mensa qualified’ etc. tag on every comment. You’re some sort of clown, who is so wrapped up in himself that he can’t much imagine the reality, indeed the intelligence, of others (meaning, that they exist at all, much less that someone else, besides Donald Trump, might be worthwhile and of value). The English, I will say, have this type of ego and egocentric viewpoint, so where that comes from is clear enough, but only the isolated and bunkered-down American can become as warped as you seem to be. For another example, your presumptuousness in concluding I ‘lack insight’ due to my ‘low IQ status’. Once again, you may be some math or jazz genius for all I know–and that’s the point, I don’t, other than what you pathetically broadcast to the Unz universe with every post–but you seem to be the one lacking insight: human insight. You insult Germans, all Germans (oh, except Mozart), you insult me personally. And just look at your main generalization, your main point: ‘Germans have a propensity for worshiping and deifying judges, attorneys, clergy, politicians, journalists, medicos, artists, etc, meaning they bow down before the most odious BSers.’ Show me an ethnic group, a nationality, that doesn’t. People all around the world do what their rulers will them to do, am I wrong? This includes your (presumably) beloved England, a dumb-ass of a population when it comes to having any idea what’s really going on. Finally, your final line proves my point. ‘One of the main objections the Germans have to DT is he is not a “genuine” politician.’ You continue to cling to your beloved leader Trump, the AIPAC ass kisser, the phoney-ass bullshitter… But he’s your leader! Authority worshipper!!!

    • Replies: @utu
  390. tamo says:
    @Count de Money

    The Japanese were fundamentally offensively minded. This offensive attitude held fast because the Japanese knew that compared to western forces, they were seriously deficient in material, resources and firepower. To overcome these deficiencies, they would rely on the intangibles and simplicity. The basic concept, which guided all Japanese military actions was that, a simple plan carried through with power and determination of it’s fanatical infantrymen coupled with speed of maneuver would very much disrupt the plans of the technologically much superior enemy with much bigger fire power.

    The Japanese believed correctly that they had to strike first, and that they had to strike with massive forces and that only in this way they would ensure that the campaign would be short and decisive and had only chance to win the battle because they correctly believed and understood that if their enemies were allowed to gather strength, then Japan would lose. This was the main doctrine of the Japanese infantry forces. Like any military plans, sometimes they don’t work out as planned. This happens to every military. The technologically inferior Japanese forces believed this course of battlefield actions was the only option open to them to fight the technologically far superior enemy with immense fire power. This is why Japanese did what they did in the battlefield. Admiral Yamamoto was right saying that Japan would lose the war against America. It was a foregone conclusion that Japan would lose the war because population, technology, industrial capacity overwhelmingly favored America. Attacking Pearl Harbor was the most fatal mistake Japanese made during WW2.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  391. utu says:
    @daniel le mouche

    The guy does not get respect in Germany from Germans. He is on his third German wife. He is not a judge, attorney, clergy, politician, journalist, doctor or artist, so he compensates with his Mensa schtick and his jazz musician thing that he is some kind of American maverick beyond this German pigeonholing.

  392. tamo says:
    @peterAUS

    The Japanese believed that night operations could negate superior firepower, especially artillery, and help their soldiers close in to the enemy where their superior spirit combined with individual skills would win out. They started their night training in the barracks area during early evening wearing dark glasses, then at night when the moon was full, followed by the darkest of nights through rough country. During this training they were taught to fall flat on a regular basis to look up at the horizon and to use off center vision.The individual soldier was taught how to crawl slow and silent. Stealth was emphasized to better enable the soldier to get close for the final attack. Stealth was taught by having soldiers make sure their canteens were topped off, their ammo pouches settled with wads of paper, their boots wrapped with burlap and rags. He was taught to thrust hard and full with his bayonet as studies had shown soldiers at night tended to short thrust with the weapon.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  393. denk says:

    Been thinking …..
    Why do so many murkkans talk about ‘war with China‘ like its a done deal ?

    I can understand if the potus, sec of offense, sec of state, congress critters, senate creeps, promote the war porn, those are nuthin but glorified MIC salesmen.
    Oops, I mean salespersons, what with all this genderless craps .
    heheheh

    But why so many joe six packs parrot that pitch for war with China ?

    Whats in it for them ?

    To help them along,
    I provide a multiple choice hint….

    1] The warsj say so.

    2] Trump/Bush/Obama/Clinton/Pelosi/Mccain/ say so.

    3] I work for Lockheed Martin.

    4] CIA/NSA tell us the Chicoms have been hacking into our network, stripping bare the date base of Lockheed Martin/Yahoo/whatever fuck they say so, ..

    5] Chicoms have been sending gunboats up the Mississippi.

    6] Chicoms have been mounting covert/overt/terrorism war against us.

    7] We are simply suckers.

    8] All of the above.

    Come on you murkkan great warriors,
    Tell us why !

    • Replies: @ThatDamnGood
  394. peterAUS says:
    @tamo

    Well…apart from that “dark glasses” (source, please) all the rest isn’t anything special, really.
    I could post a couple of night fighting “tricks” other armies used and, apparently Japanese didn’t.

    And, well, that “superior spirit” and “bayonet” combination doesn’t sound good.

    I really don’t want to get dragged, in this topic, to Japanese fighting etc. so I’ll be brief.
    That infiltration etc worked at the very beginning.
    Guadalcanal finished that.

    I am not doubting spirit of Japanese soldier, far from it. It was higher than any other military, of course. Kamikaze. Enough said.

    Still, spirit can’t compensate for (well handled) firepower and logistics.

    As for Germans, well, there is one element which hasn’t been addressed here.
    I read materials, once upon a time, pointing to, interestingly enough, inflexibility of German tactics in Stalingrad. Soviets reorganized and used their tactical units much better then and there.

    Maybe I read/remembered wrong.

    Something about keeping the organization, from battalion down, exactly the same as in rural, just shortening distances.
    If true, not flattering.

    Soviets did that much better.

    • Replies: @tamo
  395. @denk

    Because Joe Six pack isn’t the one who will be doing the fighting. He thinks when the war with China starts, it will be like the other wars where he can just watch it in the telly, it just a sport for him.

    They are all like that. The yanks that don’t like the status quo (aka Jews) also do chickenhawk armchair general stuff, why didnt Russia shoot down the Israeli jets, etc.

    • Replies: @denk
  396. szopen says:
    @Anon

    Listen: you are lying saying “Poles did nothing”. I have already listed Żegota; and there was more than enough of individual and groups of Poles who were helping Jews. There are many examples, it would tiresome and even impossible to enumerate them all. For example, in village of Cisie Germans find out three Jews hiding, who escaped from transport to Treblinka. Germans killed 25Poles from the village as a punishment, and burnt whole village to the ground.

    Or another random example from December 1942, in Pantalowiec: Germans found a young Jewish girl and they lied to her, that if she will tell them who was helping her, they will spare her. She identified Polish family, which was then shot (six people). Then Jewish girl identified three brothers who were giving her food. Germans went to those brothers and they shot them too. Girl, of course, met her fate later.

    In total 30.000 to 60.000 Jews survived thanks to Polish help; as usually many Poles had to be involved in order to save one Jew, it could be estimated that some 360.000 Poles were involved in helping Jews.

    Yes, there were also scum who were killing Jews. That’s inevitable in every nation. You can always find some percent of population willing to murder innocent victims, especially when rewarded by authorities. One percent of 24 million of Poles is 240.000, let’s say 80.000 grown up men – more than enough to murder a lot of people. However, Polish resistance was punishing the collaborators, killing them when possible, and publicly announcing they will be punished after the war.

    Let me, however, summarize the discussion:

    (1) You claim that Poles were not resisting and that they should blow up at least one train with material; but in fact Poles were resisting, there were partisan units who were blewing up trains. The problem is that it takes time to organize the resistance, get arms and ammo. Initially POlish resistance was weak, and by time it grew larger, most of Jews were already dead.

    (2) You claim that Russians, Belarussians and Ukrainians would never allow death camps to exist. Yet there was one death camp in Belarussian territory, and it operated without any obstacles from local population or from Soviet partisans. Moreover, there were no Polish guards in death camps; but there were Ukrainian guards.

    (3) You claim POles were not helping, repeating this lie despite me pointing out existence of government-funded organisation with a sole purpose of helping Jews.

    I am done with you. You seem to think that Poles should be a nation of saints and heroes, which is impossible demand. You seem to think Russians are nation of saints and heroes, which is also not true (Which is not to condemn Russians; as I’ve written above, in every nation on planet there will be scum, and in every nation there will be heroes).

    • Replies: @Wally
  397. szopen says:
    @utu

    I have not read Grabowski’s book, only the introduction, discussions, reviews and fragments. I have the general idea about his methodology and results – and I believe my critical points below should be valid.

    Basically, he and his team (including Barbara Engelking) went through documents (memories etc) from few of POlish regions, searching for every mention of Jewish survivor and noting if they were saying that there were “few” or “dozens” or “hundreds” hiding Jews. Using that data, they estimated the number of Jews who escaped from the ghettoes (claiming this was lower estimate, because if they found a memory that there were “hundreds” of hiding Jews in some region, they estimated the number of 200 etc). They identified many cases of incidents where Poles were either capturing Jews and turning them to Germans, or killing Jews outright. They counted how many Jews survived from those identified by memories.

    Based on the research, they got estimation how many Jews went into hiding in that few regions and generalized that number to whole Poland. From that number they subtracted the number of Jews who survived. They concluded that the rest had to be killed by Poles “directly” or “indirectly” (i.e. by being captured and sold to Germans), and this is how Grabowski concluded that Poles are responsible for deaths of between 200 to 250 thousand Jews.

    I think there are numerous problems with their methodology.

    (1) There is no way to check how many Jews escaped from ghettoes. If some witness claims “hundreds” of hiding Jews, he/she might or might not be exxagerating.

    (2) There is no way to check how many Jews survived. Many Jews after the liberation never registered, some left Poland, and many could be affraid to identify themselves as Jewish and register. Some could identify as Polish (even if being targeted as Jews by German authorities).

    (3) Even though they checked many regions, they still constitute the small percentage of whole Poland and they admitted there were vast differences between the regions. For example, they found that the chances of survival were widely different between Jews who called for help from petty nobility villages, and from peasant villages.

    BTW, they mentioned that Jews did know the difference between those two kind of villages. Unbelieveable; they were born there, they were living there and they had no idea that gentiles are not all the same, and they had no idea about crucial differences between those two kind of villages.

    (4) Witnesses might lie, might exxagerate, might repeat gossips. In case of Jedwabne we actually know that one witness whose testimony was used by Gross was not even there. We know – yes we do – that there will be always witnesses who will be unreliable. Not because they would consciously lie, but because of false memory phenomenon. Moreover, we know that many prewar Jews were prejudiced towards Poles, which could influence their memories too. This is even more important in such traumatic experiences, when someone is hiding for years, fearing for his/her life every effing day. No way every single witness will then report reliably.

    (5) Some of those regions were of mixed ethnic composition, meaning some responsibility has to be also attributed to Belarussians/Ukrainians (contrary to our Anon beliefs, Ukrainians also had their fair share of bastards more than willing to help with Jewish extermination).

    (6) Most of Jews were urban dwellers who had no idea on how to survive in forests. Many would die from diseases, cold, or could perish in periodical actions by Germans. Grabowski seem to attribute all that deaths to Poles, estimating that the last case (Jews killed in action by Germans) was quite miniscule.

    (7) No one knows how many Poles were executed for helping Jews and how many Jews died along them. No one was researching that topic until recently, there were onlyisolated monographies about some districts, a data dispersed in many works and memories, no in-depth research. The initial research seem found 2300 cases of executions, most of them anonymous. Seems not much? Maybe, but the problem is – as I have said – no one was collecting this data, Germans were not documenting this, and witnesses already mostly died out, so probably we will never know the true number and the documented number is probably small fraction of real cases. Or maybe not.

    All in all, my opinion is that it is believeable that some (possibly many) Poles were murdering Jews. Before I start, one thing: Grabowski mention “groups” of boys and men who were “repeatedly” capturing Jews escaping from transport. That means quite often one bastard would be responsible for deaths of many Jews. Obviously, it could also go the other way, few people collectively responsible for a death of one Jew – but I would say the real situation is skewed towards more killed/individual. Second, Grabowski mentions that Polish blue police was sometimes killing Jews intead of giving them to Germans. He forgots to mention that Jews were often tortured by Germans or lured by promises of false safety and then they would identify Poles who were helping them, which would result in deaths of whole families, which might (or might not; some blue policemen could be simply scum) influence the blue police.

    My rough estimation is that there could be about 24 millions of ethnic Poles, of which say some 1/3 would be grown up males (including teenagers). That would leave 8 million men; if only one percent of them would be murderous, evil scum, that would give us 80.000 men. 80.000 men could easilly kill or contribute to death of quarter of million of Jews.

    There is absolutely no way that in any nation on earth there would not be 1% of bastards.

    One case: family of Ulms. POles who were hiding Jews. They were denounced by some neighbour and killed (whole family) by Germans with help of Polish blue police (some say the bastard was Ukrainian, but seems unlikely). Later the bastard was executed by Polish resistance. How one can then summarize thousands of cases like that in one sentence other that “it was complicated”?

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @utu
  398. @Tom Welsh

    “Churchill’s oratory has been rightly praised, but sometimes he would get carried away.”

    It’s just too bad that some of his radio speeches were done by someone else a radio actor by the name of William Shelley. https://www.theguardian.com/media/2000/oct/29/uknews.theobserver

  399. @ThreeCranes

    All Swedish men aren’t the way you try to portray them. What about the Swedish men in the National Hockey League? No wimps there! https://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/nationality/swedish-nhl-players-career-stats.html

    • Replies: @ThreeCranes
  400. tamo says:
    @peterAUS

    My source for the Japanese troops’ night fight training: Imperial Japanese Army manpower and training chapter 1. You said “….unique night fight tactics …..So, what was so unique about Japanese?”
    I gave you what I thought was unique to the Japanese night-fight methods : wearing dark glasses when training at night, believing in their own superior spirit etc. I think these Japanese attitude and methods were unique.I’m sure many other countries’ infantry units had their own unique night-fight methods. Having unique methods doesn’t NECESSARILY mean they are better but just different.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  401. denk says:
    @ThatDamnGood

    the cumulative extravagance of the US military decade after decade is a major factor in why the country’s total debt has now exceeded $20 trillion. The bitter irony is that the indebted nation — by far the world’s biggest debtor — is then a cause for fiscal hawks in Trump’s Republican party to demand brutal cuts to public spending and investment.

    …… “This military debt is crushing the American worker, as it provides fodder for Republican lawmakers to cut back on healthcare, housing, education, roads, bridges, and other infrastructural projects, thus undermining job creation, reducing wages, and increasing taxes to pay off the debt.

    https://sputniknews.com/columnists/201806181065526366-america-its-own-worst-enemy/

    We’ve met the ‘enemy’ and its us…

    murkans sneer at ‘brain washed chicoms’ without realising that they themselves are the most dumped down people on earth.

    Dont look here, look over there , boys and girls, daddy has got work to do.

    the MIC are laughing all the way to the bank while petrified murkkans cower in terror of that perennial ‘yellow peril’.

    hehehheh

  402. Wally says:
    @szopen

    Once again szopen makes dumb fake claims, but proves none of them. LOL

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @utu
  403. Anonymous[421] • Disclaimer says:
    @Authenticjazzman

    I hear that Swedes are similar.

  404. Wally says:
    @utu

    IOW, you dodge, run, and cannot provide the proof for your laughable claims.
    That makes you a liar.
    It’s really simple, proof talks, bullshit walks.

    new & recommended:
    Otto Moll / Auschwitz Selection – Auschwitz Museum propaganda 10-May-2018

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11832

    The ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are laughable, scientifically impossible frauds.
    see the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here:http://forum.codoh.com

    • Replies: @szopen
    , @utu
  405. @tamo

    When Japan attacked it had oil for some three months more.
    FDR boycotted Japan, the Dutch Indies too, from September.
    FDR had sabotaged the negotiations.
    What was Japan supposed to have done ?
    Go under without a fight ?

    • Replies: @tamo
  406. Dutch Boy says:
    @animalogic

    True. I was commenting about the regular “leg” infantrymen who made up the bulk of US infantry strength in WWII. The US Army did indeed believe in massive artillery support before an attack (the Germans had great respect for the artillery arm of the US Army). Close air support was particularly effective against the superior German tank forces and air superiority also allowed air reconnaissance that allowed ground commanders to avoid the surprise counter attacks favored by the German army. The US commanders seemed undaunted by the inferior medium tanks they used against the heavier German tanks, apparently believing that aircraft and tank destroyers would do most of the anti-tank combat.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  407. szopen says:
    @Wally

    Wally, go somewhere else pretty please. Your double standards with respect to evidence is clear to anyone, proving that you are not caring about evidence at all (Accepting without a blink German Nazi propaganda, ignoring the postwar historian works on the topic – while demanding impossible proof standards for things you don’;t like). That’s why it’s of no use to discuss with your ilk.

    • Replies: @Wally
  408. peterAUS says:
    @Dutch Boy

    Agree.

    The role of US artillery, as any artillery in fact, has been conveniently neglected in all blabbing about WW2.
    Or any war in fact.

    Not eye catching and book/movie inspiring as the rest I guess.
    No glamour there.
    No topics for “feel good” chat about war over refreshment.

    Besides, could give future cannon fodder (interesting, a) the true nature of modern wars.
    Could make them think.

  409. tamo says:
    @jilles dykstra

    The ABCD (Australian, British, Chinese, Dutch) economic blockade was the Allied response to the Japanese aggression in China and Indochina. Japan’s Archilles heel was that she had to import most of such critical natural resources as oil and iron ore for it’s economy and war efforts. Japan should have anticipated the fatal blockade by the west because the west was not going to take the Japanese aggression lying down. Also Japan should have withdrawn from Indochina to start with and eventually from China. When you consider the huge gap in population, industrial capacity and technology between Japan and America, there was no way Japan would have won the war against America. Sometimes it’s LOT better losing face than a total capitulation that eventually happened to Japan in 1945.

  410. Anonymous[421] • Disclaimer says:
    @tamo

    Zeros were better (faster, more agile, longer range) because they were completely unarmored. This is a philosophical not a technological difference. The same reason some Japanese pilots refused to carry parachutes, or unfastened them once in the cockpit.

    • Replies: @tamo
  411. Dr. X says:
    @Anon

    Von Stauffenburg was a Bavarian, from a culture popularly alleged to be the exact opposite of the common view of Prussian culture.

    Yes, thank you for correcting me. I mistakenly confused Stauffenberg with Henning von Tresckow, his collaborator, who was a Prussian.

  412. utu says:
    @Wally

    Wally, you have no idea how useless and ineffective you are. Or on the second thought perhaps you do know. Perhaps you are the Zionist agent who’s purpose is to compromise the legitimate revisionist historians who actually do useful work and can engage in intelligent discourse.

    Yeah, that’s a ticket: Wall is the Zionist Agent.

    • Replies: @Wally
  413. Wally says:
    @utu

    IOW, you cannot refute what I post. You know it, and insist on dodging, lying and engaging in childish wishful thinking.

    I certainly am advancing the truth, otherwise your little panties wouldn’t be in such a twist.

    New & recommended:
    The Yellow Stars and all those glasses, hair, shoes & gold teeth

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11811

    “It is necessary to recognize that the lack of traces involves the inability to directly establish the reality of the existence of homicidal gas chambers.”

    - French “historian” Jacques Baynac, Le Nouveau Quotidien (Lausanne, Switzerland), Sept. 3, 1996, p. 14

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Momus
  414. denk says:
    @tamo

    I heard jp’s resurgent imperial army ranks 4th/5th in the world today…..

    Pity they cant even protect their daughters in Okinawa.

    hehehhe

    • Replies: @tamo
  415. Wally says:
    @Anon

    In the attempted coup against Hitler, leaders Stauffenberg & Co. never claimed anything like an ‘extermination program of Jews’ as one of their motives.

    Because there was no ‘extermination program of Jews’.

    Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the ridiculous ‘holocaust’ storyline is the message.

    http://www.codoh.com

  416. Wally says:
    @szopen

    IOW, you cannot refute what I post and you know it, and then you dodge & run.

    What “German Nazi propaganda” do I accept?
    Tell us what’s wrong with what I ‘accept as evidence’. I have told you what’s absurdly wrong with your fake ‘evidence’.

    new & recommended:
    Witold Pilecki- Auschwitz Museum propaganda 25/5/2018

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11831

    Science, rational thought, & logic simply demolish the ‘holocaust’ tall tales.
    And that’s why there are Thought Crime Laws that imprison those who engage in free speech about it.
    Truth is hate to those that hate the truth.
    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @szopen
  417. Wally says:
    @szopen

    Poor szopen, another dim hasbarist gone wild. LOL

    Still waiting for him to tell us how the laughable ‘gas chambers’ worked.
    Still waiting for him to show us the immense human remains that Jews claim to know the exact locations of.
    Still waiting for him prove anything he posts.

    recommended to everyone:
    Cyanide Chemistry at Auschwitz

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4111

    See the ‘holocaust’ scam easily & thoroughly debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here:http://forum.codoh.com

    • Replies: @szopen
  418. denk says:

    Meanwhile,

    India, the whiteman’s sepoys since the days of opium war, is basking in the limelight as the washington’s designated ‘leader of Asia Indo Pacific.

    In hornor of India’s preeminent role in the Indo Pacific, the murkkan pacom is Indo-Pacom from now on.

    Who knows, the masters of universe in washington might even declare the SCS as SIndianS, any day now.

    The murkkans are expert at massaging the mega ego of their Indian cousins [kinda like Caucasoid ],
    no wonder Lockheed Martin and co are already drooling at another good killing.

    hehhehhe

    http://www.atimes.com/renaming-the-us-pacific-command-why-indo-pacific/

  419. tamo says:
    @denk

    Japanese self-defense forces are basically defensive in nature. If they want to become more offensive, then Japanese have to change it’s so-called peace constitution or reinterpret it. But before Japan acquires more offensive weapons, it must think of consequences because there is a strong distrust of Japan on the part of China and both Koreas. It’s very unfair for the Okinawans to host a disproportionate number of American troops. Some of these American troops should be sent to the bases on the Japanese main islands or elsewhere.

  420. denk says:

    defensive …

    Why are they shaping up to join the murkkans offensive against China,

    Instead of defending their daughters against murkkan rapists in Okinawa ?

  421. tamo says:

    I think Japan is scared of a resurgent China because of it’s past terrible misdeeds against China. So Japan needs America as a big honcho and also America wants Japan as a junior partner to contain an ever-rising China.

    • Replies: @denk
  422. denk says:
    @tamo

    Japan isnt scared of a resurgent China ‘seeking revenge’, Abe is willingly joining the murkkan encirclement of China.

    Abe’s pose in the jet fighter with 731 insignia is a blatant provocation.

    The de facto aircraft carrier Izumo is named after the flag ship that bombarded Shanghai in ww2…
    May be thats another coincidence,
    hehehhe

    I dont see a jp quaking in its boots, I see a jp eagerly joining the whiteman’s war against China.

  423. denk says:

    jeeze , I aint got all day.

    From the horse mouth….

    An honest jp
    [an endangered species these days, since they got mixed up with the forked tongue fukus and their Indian cousins]

    America is doing to China today what America did to Japan before the Pearl Harbor attack. The Chinese may hate to openly admit this, but America is slowly trying to put a chokehold on China’s oil supplies by conquering Iraq, Libya, South Sudan and, soon, Iran. America is already stirring up trouble in South China Sea.

    http://web.archive.org/web/20130103005255/https://www.japantimes.co.jp/text/rc20120101a2.html

  424. tamo says:

    Yes, Japan is scared of an ever -powerful China. It might not be shaking in it’s boot but it definitely peeing in pants.

  425. @Anon

    The Poles show the exact amount of gratitude due for what the red army did.

    Try to come to terms with your own past instead of clinging to other people’s crimes like a drowning man would to a log.

    • Replies: @Anon
  426. utu says:
    @Wally

    Wally the Zio Agent to compromise the true revisionism with his idiocy. You do not even realize that they hired you for your idiocy. Your idiocy was the asset they wanted.

    • Replies: @Wally
  427. utu says:
    @szopen

    Thanks for explanations. I do not think I will be reading the book. But I hope some historians in Poland will and will write some rebuttals and critiques. Unfortunately, Jews are always several steps ahead of you. They came up with exaggerated story of Jedwabne and the story got traction and when rebuttals came it was kind of too late. You need to start attacking the Jews and put them on defensive. And I am sure there are plenty ‘juicy’ stories about Jews in the WWII they do not like to air. Also Poland instead of reinforcing the canonical story of Holocaust could provide some help to revisionist.

    Anyway, you and Germans are being played. The reparations form Germany is part of the play. Poles are thinking about money. Poles are getting greedy. It is very easy to play on greed. And then Jews ask Poles about money. And some Poles begin to rationalize: that’s OK, we will get money form Germans and will pay some of it to Jews. They put you on their level to your disadvantage. Greed does it to you. The end result you will get zilch from Germany but you will be mentally ready to accept the Jewish claims.

    My solution: State loud and clear that Poland accepts responsibility for actions of some Polish citizens during the WWII that lead to the death of 200,000 Jews as Grabowski claims. Let everybody know that Poland is responsible for 3.3% of the total Holocaust figure of 6 millions. State that Poland is willing to pay equivalent restitution. Poland will pay 3.3% of the sum that Germany has already paid to Israel and Jews all over the world. But Poland will pay this sum to Germany as Germany overpaid and certainly Israel and the world Jewry would not like to double charge.

  428. szopen says:
    @Wally

    You accept the supposed “Polish atrocities” stories about 58.000 murdered, despite the fact that when after the war GERMAN historians, which were not quite sympathetic to Polish case, identified at most few hundred killed – despite the numerous testimonies from the POlish side about saboteurs.

    You have not told me anything, btw. You just repeat the same things over and over. I just don’t care enough to invest my time again, like in the past, when I spent endless hours discussing revisionists claims about Zyklon B, only to find out EVERYTHING I have posted was ignored, while the same old studies were being thrown at me. I know you are not interested in evidence or truth. You are just Nazi supporter – that’s why you think Nazi propaganda about 58.000 Germans murdered by POles is true (inluding “before war”, despite there being foreigners in Poland which do not support such claims), while any crime by Nazis is obviously fake.

  429. szopen says:
    @Wally

    “No name calling” – one more example of your double standards and dishonesty.

    About idiotic Leuchter report, debunked many times and yet still used by revisionists, because they can’ find anything better:

    http://auschwitz.org/en/history/holocaust-denial/leuchter-report

    In the same time, revisionist claim testimonies such like this one:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42144186

    Are all false or fabricated. People like Wally will grasp at the smallest detail to discredit any witness confirming the Holocaust, while believing without slightest doubts the Nazi propaganda about “Polish atrocities”.

    • Replies: @Wally
  430. Momus says:
    @Wally

    Benthic Wally

    The caravan has moved on; you are barking at a swastika moon.

    Bone grinders are ball mills now and Zyklon B is the lore; the ashed and pulverised bones of millions of Jews were spread across the fields and into the rivers and became the soil. The deniers are discredited and the whole world knows Holocaust is the Nazis systematic debasement, exile, internment, enslavement, diseasing, murder and attempted extermination of the Europe’s Jews.

    The perpetrators were beaten, shot, hung, burnt and put on trial and are still being hunted down and imprisoned for crimes there is no need to even provide the backdrop evidence for.

    • Replies: @Wally
  431. Anon[411] • Disclaimer says:
    @byrresheim

    All this blaming of each others nation is almost nothing more than domination behaviour so typical in mammalian species. Some people project the apology to German performance in ww2 to their own identity being either of Germanic ethnicity, or part of the Western culture.

    man would to a log.

    And one may find even more logs in thy neighbor’s eye.

  432. This is WWI, but illustrative enough:

    http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/brussels.htm

    The German Army Marches through Brussels, 1914

    ……………
    The German juggernaut smashed its way into Belgium on August 5, initially targeting Belgium’s line of defensive fortresses. The Belgian army was forced to retreat and by August 20 the Germans entered Brussels on its way to France. The Belgians elected not to defend the city and the Germans marched through unhindered.

    Richard Harding Davis was an American newspaper reporter and witnessed the German army’s march through the city. We join his account as he sits at a boulevard cafe waiting for the German arrival:
    ……………………….
    At eleven o’clock, unobserved but by this official audience, down the Boulevard Waterloo came the advance-guard of the German army. It consisted of three men, a captain and two privates on bicycles. Their rifles were slung across their shoulders, they rode unwarily, with as little concern as the members of a touring-club out for a holiday. Behind them so close upon each other that to
    cross from one sidewalk to the other was not possible, came the Uhlans [cavalry], infantry, and the guns. For two hours I watched them, and then, bored with the monotony of it, returned to the hotel. After an hour, from beneath my window, I still could hear them; another hour and another went by. They still were passing.
    …………………….
    The German army moved into Brussels as smoothly and as compactly as an Empire State express. There were no halts, no open places, no stragglers. For the gray automobiles and the gray motorcycles bearing messengers one side of the street always was kept clear; and so compact was the column, so rigid the vigilance of the file-closers, that at the rate of forty miles an hour a car could race the length of the column and need not stop – for never did a single horse or man once swerve from its course.

    All through the night, like a tumult of a river when it races between the cliffs of a canyon, in my sleep I could hear the steady roar of the passing army. And when early in the morning I went to the window the chain of steel was still unbroken. It was like the torrent that swept down the Connemaugh Valley and destroyed Johnstown. This was a machine, endless, tireless, with the delicate organization of a watch and the brute power of a steam roller. And for three days and three nights through Brussels it roared and rumbled, a cataract of molten lead. The infantry marched singing, with their iron-shod boots beating out the time. They sang Fatherland, My Fatherland. Between each line of song they took three steps. At times 2000 men were singing together in absolute rhythm and beat. It was like blows from giant pile-drivers. When the melody gave way the silence was broken only by the stamp of iron-shod boots, and then again the song rose. When the singing ceased the bands played marches. They were followed by the rumble of the howitzers, the creaking of wheels and of chains clanking against the cobblestones, and the sharp, bell-like voices of the bugles.

    More Uhlans followed, the hoofs of their magnificent horses ringing like thousands of steel hammers breaking stones in a road; and after them the giant siege-guns rumbling, growling, the mitrailleuses [machine guns] with drag-chains ringing, the field-pieces with creaking axles, complaining brakes, the grinding of the steel-rimmed wheels against the stones echoing and re-echoing from the house front. When at night for an instant the machine halted, the silence awoke you, as at sea you wake when the screw stops.

    For three days and three nights the column of gray, with hundreds of thousands of bayonets and hundreds of thousands of lances, with gray transport wagons, gray ammunition carts, gray ambulances, gray cannon, like a river of steel, cut Brussels in two.

  433. @LondonBob

    Total bullshit. If you can’t cite where you read it, it’s meaningless bullshit. My father served in the Army and the Navy. He was very clear he joined Navy after 6 years in the Army because he didn’t want his children to think he was a coward. Why don’t you ask one of the few left instead of spouting nonsensical bullshit.

  434. Wally says:
    @utu

    Yep, I continue to own hasbarist utu. IOW, he continues to dodge, run & hide from the information that I post.
    And BTW, according to sources CODOH is booming. And THAT is what really bothers. him.

    The fact that inmates at Auschwitz, upon the advancement of Soviet troops, were given the choice to stay and await the the Soviets or leave with the SS is damning to the fake narrative.

    At Nuremberg, perjurer Blaha said about Dachau in a sworn statement:

    “There were numerous executions by gas, executions by firearms, and by injections, in the camp. The gas chamber was finished in 1944, and I called Dr. Rascher to examine the first victim. Of the eight or nine persons in the chamber, three were still alive; the others seemed to be dead. Their eyes were red and their faces bloated. Numerous detainees were subsquently killed in the same manner.”
    IMT, vol. V, p. 198 (PS-3249).

    But now we’re told that there were no gassings, and THEN we’re told there were “experimental” gassings, all of which contradicts Blaha … the liars can’t keep their stories straight.

    More here:

    http://codoh.com/library/document/2369/

    http://www.cwporter.com/innocent.htm

  435. Wally says:
    @Momus

    Yet laughable nutter Momus cannot show us any of the ‘fields filled with human remains’, LOL, which would not just disappear.

    Momus’s “whole world” claim = “that shitty little country”.

    The always contradictory Zionist Momus now denies the claims of immense human remains to this day made by his very own Jews. LOL

    If Jews were really so smart they would have conjured up a better, more believable story than their impossibly fake & stupid ’6,000,000 & gas chambers’. LOL

    The “Holocau$t Industry” in court:
    ‘Please your honor, there really are remains of millions buried in huge mass graves, we know where the mass graves are to this day, … but, but, well, umm, we can’t show the court the human remains. You must trust us, we’re Zionists.’

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Momus
  436. Wally says:
    @szopen

    Everyone, please read all below:

    szopen. we’re ahead of you every step of the way. Now you have embarrassed yourself yet again by posting this laughable link: http://auschwitz.org/en/history/holocaust-denial/leuchter-report
    Which is crushed here:

    In his conclusions Leuchter was not wrong at all. His conclusions are supported by a vast body of Revisionist research, i.e:
    The Rudolf Report: http://vho.org/GB/Books/trr/index.html
    Dissecting the Holocaust: http://vho.org/GB/Books/dth/found.html

    Here is another case for Leuchter’s conclusions by Paul Grubach:

    The Leuchter Report vindicated: A response to J.-C. Pressac’s critique
    by Paul Grubach: http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v12/v12p445_Grubach.html

    As for your ridiculous & impossible ‘testimony’, yawn. We’ve been there done that too.
    recommended:
    The Manuscripts of Marcel Nadjari
    By Panagiotis Heliotis: https://codoh.com/library/document/5461/?lang=en

    LOL: Nadjari, the story of another Auschwitz Sonderkommando the Nazis forgot to kill / ‘note found in thermos’ LOL: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11402

    On the Greek Jew testimonies / Zyklon-B: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11538

    Now insert other foot.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @szopen
  437. szopen says:
    @Wally

    See? I knew it. Double standards. The Nazi witnesses are of course reliable, and no doubts are allowed – but at the same time, every single witness, testimony or evidence of Holocaust is scrutinized and doubted.

    BTW your links are laughable. They just repeast over and over the same claims.

    • Replies: @Wally
  438. Momus says:
    @Wally

    Benthic Wally

    You have become what you deny as you parody yourself.

    • Replies: @Wally
  439. Wally says:
    @Momus

    Soap-made-from Jews-Momus, you are desperately projecting again.
    Everyone sees you dodge debate, run & hide like a little girl.

    Mother and I used to get up at four in the morning [at Belsen], to avoid the queues of people waiting to use the shower block about and hour later. We undressed and showered our bodies with ice-cold water. The only soap we had was a barrel of honey-coloured liquid soap, manufactured out of human flesh from the bodies of people shot by the SS on the transports. Many times we wondered: ‘Could this be my brother, my sister, another relation?

    - Gena Turgel nee Goldfinger, I Light a Candle, London: Grafton, 1987, p. 102.

    recommended: the so called ‘holocaust’ / theatre of the absurd: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=66

    CODOH numbers keep going up & up.
    http://www.codoh.com

  440. Wally says:
    @szopen

    said:
    “See? I knew it. Double standards. The Nazi witnesses are of course reliable, and no doubts are allowed – but at the same time, every single witness, testimony or evidence of Holocaust is scrutinized and doubted.
    BTW your links are laughable. They just repeast over and over the same claims.”

    szopen, you are in full retreat. LOL

    Please give us the “testimony” of your favorite three “witnesses”, in their own words. Tell us what court they ‘testified’ in, when & where. Do it and watch me slap you silly by exposing the absurdities that they say. Go ahead, man-up.

    Show us the alleged “double standards” you laughably use as an excuse for getting your tail whipped.

    I just thoroughly debunked your posted nonsense about Nadjari. Think I’m wrong? Then try to show us where I was wrong. No excuses.

    Tell us how the alleged ‘gas chambers’ worked. Tell me where I am wrong in saying they are simply impossible.

    Come on big man, here’s your chance.
    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @szopen
  441. Paw says:
    @Mikhail

    The very idotic. Indeed. Those experts are so smart out of stupidity…
    Wehrmacht was far best army. The 2.nd world war was not the war we want to understand. Germans on tanks were just running with very little resistance. They stop for fuel or to surround the Russians in hundred thousands /Mistake ordered by Hitler in Kyjev/ Delay cost them. /For instance Napoleon got to Moscow 3 months earlier../ No fights only sporadically, by isolated small units. Quite different war. No one was prepared.
    But changes come and go all the time. !!!!The Red already Army lost that war . All 500 hundred thousands of professional army were dead or in conc.camps. 25 thousands tanks, 15 thousand planes and artillery all gone.
    Only these Russian refused to give up. Refused to realize it..
    They /generals/ learned and started to issue orders ,like do this or that and I am not interested HOW you do it..Watch ! On the west front was the Wehrmacht already in loosing war and many wanted to save themselves. Quite different situation and with US army engaged in trade of fuel, food, etc. Had to stop. Too.
    Rokossovsky was the best tactician called by the Germans the dagger. defended Moscow and then Kursk. Kursk was not a victory .Only the Red Army defended the German attacks successfully. After Stalingrad , on the order of Stalin , The R.A lost 3 and half army, in Vyazma…For instance…
    No one actually knows , even the Russians , HOW that war was won !!!
    These number of soldiers talks and to compare them are moronic. Too many circumstances play a part.
    Now these Russians are in the bad spot. Mongols, Tatars, Swedes ,Germans, Polish, Latvians and, Bolsheviks etc. many times, with the great leaders were coming and coming…And the Russians are the Vikings too.

  442. EugeneGur says:
    @Rogue

    to suggest the Red army was man for man, pilot for pilot, tank crew for tank crew, gunner for gunner and, yes, infantryman for infantryman the equal of or better than the Wehrmacht, is talking bullshit.

    Perhaps, although no one defined valid criteria for comparison or did scientifically valid measurements. So, this might be nothing more than prejudice: naturally, supermen should be better than Untermenschen.

    The Germans weren’t supermen and the Reds weren’t crap. We know. But the average German serviceman was better than his allied counterpart, be they Soviet, American or British.

    Sure, the Soviet officers weren’t exactly crap but so-so; the Soviet command made one mistake after another; the German soldiers were superior; the German command was brilliant – but somehow they lost. Are we back to “the General Frost”, which miraculously affected only the Germans? The poor Russian roads, which blocked the German tank movement but the Russian tanks simply flied over? Or “quantity over quality”? Well, we didn’t have that many people to throw against the Nazis. So, who is delusional?

    BTW, putting the Soviet, American or British in one sentence is unwarranted. The latter two didn’t fight long enough or in conditions anywhere similar to those in the Eastern front for valid comparison. What we do know from experiment about the American or British ability to fight is not very complimentary.

  443. szopen says:
    @Wally

    Your posted links are laughable. They just repeat the same old cliches which were used to “discredit” other testimonies: e.g. “you can’t go into chambers so fast”. All of these are exactly the same all the time. I’ve already spent countless hours discussing with Nazis apologists like you, and each time I needed to lost hours of time to debunk a single lie of your ilk, only to find out your kind would repeat that over and over again, ignoring me. I’m done. I won’t discuss with deniers anymore.

    In the same time, you are giving full credit to the claims of thousands of killed German by Polish, despite (a) the bodies found are small fraction of the numbers claimed (b) most of the bodies were actually not identified and there is no reason to believe they were Germans and not Poles (c) you ignore testimonies of Poles and Polish soldiers who said they were shot at.

    Why I would even now should answer to you? In one case you fully believe in a story full of holes, and in other you doubt everything. That means you are not interested in truth at all.

    • Troll: L.K
    • Replies: @utu
    , @Wally
    , @Julian
  444. utu says:
    @szopen

    Wally is not very imaginative automaton that follows very simple directives. Obviously there is no point in engaging him in any discussion or responding to his molestations. However, there are issues about WWII that need to be revised. Unfortunately it is hard to do when all discussions get polarized between all or nothing Wallys and all or nothing Holocaustians or Soviet and Polish Heroism and Martyrology idolaters.

    Think about it this way: when discussing with Russians and Soviet you agree on everything bad Germans did but you do not agree on what Poland or Russia did good or bad. And you understand this disagreement. You both can’t be right. So you should consider that your agreement with Russians and Soviets on Germans when you seem to be both right might not imply that it is actually so.

    Most importantly it must be remembered that the WWII was lost by Germany and the history of the WWII was not written by Germans but by the victors.

    • Replies: @Wally
  445. Bukowski says:

    One of the reasons for the German defeat which is not generally discussed is how high treason played a part. There were a large number of traitors in high positions in the German armed forces who handed over battle plans to the enemy. They also sabotaged the war effort by deliberately slowing down production of armaments or withholding of material from being sent to the front or contradicting orders with the intention to sow confusion.
    A good book on this is Worm in the Apple -
    http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/worminapple/wa00.html

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=8227

    • Replies: @L.K
  446. Wally says:
    @szopen

    Everyone, read all below.
    szopen:
    You cannot point out what is wrong with the information I post. All you do is dodge & run. The entire readership of Unz.com is awaiting your response, not just me. Here’s your chance to show them what you have. No doubt you’ll look for another reason to weasel out.

    Anyone can check my posts and see that I have hit Zionists like you with many, many different facts, photos, real documents, etc. which shatter the impossible ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers. Here are my posts: http://www.unz.com/comments/all/?commenterfilter=Wally

    More challenges for you or any Zionist:
    - Tell us how the alleged ‘gas chambers’ supposedly worked.

    - Name just three “holocaust survivors”, give us their ‘testimony’ in their own words, tell us what court they testified in, and why you find them believable.

    - Show us the immense human remains that Jews say are still at allegedly known sites. What are you afraid of?

    BTW: Germans murdered by Poles, pre-war, which you mentioned, were not done so in easily located centralized locations using methods which are utterly impossible, like what Jews claim for their alleged ‘holocaust’ & sites such as the alleged 900,000 buried at Treblinka, 1,250,000 at Auschwitz, or 250,000 at Sobibor, 34,000 at Babi Yar. There simply is no rational comparison between the relatively few Germans actually murdered and the falsely alleged ’6M Jews & 5M others’.

    - What testimonies by “Poles and Polish soldiers” are you talking about? Please quote verbatim for us what they supposedly said.

    Stop being a Zionist coward and debate.

    The ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    see the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

  447. Wally says:
    @utu

    said:
    “Obviously there is no point in engaging him in any discussion ”

    Because Utu knows he has no chance. Utu is a phony who runs from debate.

    Here’s his chance to show all the Unz.com readers here that he knows what he’s talking about, but what does he do? He dodges, runs, and makes laughable excuses for his dodging. LOL

    Notice that Utu has no response when I have slapped his nonsense silly with verifiable facts & science. Those posts are all here fore everyone to see. And he doesn’t like it.

    Utu has ran like a coward from my numerous & varied posts which can be read here:

    http://www.unz.com/comments/all/?commenterfilter=Wally

    “Alone the fact that one may not question the Jewish “holocaust” and that Jewish pressure has inflicted laws on democratic societies to prevent questions—while incessant promotion and indoctrination of the same averredly incontestable ‘holocaust’ occur—gives the game away. It proves that it must be a lie. Why else would one not be allowed to question it? Because it might offend the “survivors”? Because it “dishonors the dead”? Hardly sufficient reason to outlaw discussion. No, because the exposure of this leading lie might precipitate questions about so many other lies and cause the whole ramshackle fabrication to crumble.”

    - Gerard Menuhin / righteous Revisionist Jew, son of famous violinist

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  448. @Ole Rasmussen

    “No wimps there!”

    Excellent! More power to ‘em.

  449. Julian says:
    @szopen

    I admire your persistence szopen, but holocaust deniers will not listen. It’s a bit like religious fundamentalism. My late uncle used to say, (sarcastically) of these sort of people: “Don’t confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up.”

    • Replies: @L.K
    , @Wally
  450. @Wally

    utu has been very kind and pleasant to you. You shouldn’t make him unpleasant.

    • Troll: L.K
  451. Mulegino1 says:

    The Germans were the best trained and most efficient fighting men, while the Russians were the toughest physical soldiers.

    The last world conflict, which really started in earnest 77 years ago on this very date, was a victory of quantity over quality and brute force over finesse and expertise.

    Hitler had his reasons for invading the Soviet Union and they had very little to do with “lebensraum” or visions of world conquest. His decision to preempt the massive invasion forces deploying along the western frontiers of the USSR in the spring of 1941 was a momentous but necessary one, which kept half of Germany and the rest of western Europe from domination by the Soviets. Of course he could never have envisioned that the totalitarianism of that NATO satrap, the EU, would be far more thorough and ruthless in its genocidal and culturally suicidal policies than anything Stalin could have wrought.

    • Replies: @Momus
  452. Momus says:
    @Mulegino1

    Hitler had his reasons for invading the Soviet Union and they had very little to do with “lebensraum” or visions of world conquest. His decision to pre-empt the massive invasion forces deploying along the western frontiers of the USSR in the spring of 1941 was a momentous but necessary one.

    This reasoning must also entirely justify Israel’s’ pre-emptive strikes on the Egypt, Syria and Jordan in 1967.

    The difference of course was that unlike depraved Adolf, Israel made a proper calculus and won overwhelmingly, taught everyone watching a massive lesson AND got to keep the land that their holy site stands on as well as giving the country strategic breadth.

    Oh, and then made an important, enduring peace treaty, that is also one of cooperation now, with the vanquished.

    • Replies: @L.K
    , @Mulegino1
  453. Cyrano says:

    Happy Barbarossa day to all Nazi-German loving a-holes. On this day your stupid leader made the most fatal mistake of his equally stupid life. He decided to attack the Russian mama bear. The bear lost few of her cubs and took few steps back, but then it got really, really angry and tore the a-holes to pieces. Moral of the story – don’t make the bear angry.

    • Replies: @Mulegino1
  454. L.K says:
    @Momus

    momus, sad little zionist LIAR:

    This reasoning must also entirely justify Israel’s’ pre-emptive strikes on the Egypt, Syria and Jordan in 1967

    I does not. This is bc in the case of Germany, the threat was very real, while in the case of the illegally created zionist entity ‘israel’ in 1967, there was no real threat and the israeli leadership KNEW it.

    This has been confirmed by many, including even Israeli historians.

    Keep lying, maggot.

  455. Mulegino1 says:
    @Momus

    In reality, Hitler’s world historical action on June 22, 1941 dwarfed anything the puny settler state could claim, since he acted in the interests of European civilization and culture. The Israeli leadership on the other hand, under the hideous bulb nosed yenta Golda, merely had the venal motive of thievery of land in mind.

  456. Mulegino1 says:
    @Cyrano

    It was hardly a mistake. It was a necessary risk, which was undertaken in desperation. It probably saved western Europe and some of central Europe from Soviet domination, but it ultimately led to a more pernicious and long lasting slavery under the Atlanticist-Zionist banner of NATO/EU hegemony. Either way, Germany was to be destroyed, and old Christian Europe designated for the memory hole.

    • Replies: @Cyrano
    , @Avery
  457. Cyrano says:
    @Mulegino1

    As lofty as the goals of Nazi Germany appear now in retrospect – saving the western civilization, I think that the current goals of the empire are even loftier – saving democracy. They toiled through some hard years during the Cold war – and this is the thank you that they get?

    A resurgent and revanchist Russia looking to subjugate Eastern Europe – no longer in the name of communism, but I am sure we can think of some other reason why they are doing it – maybe restoring imperial czarist Russia? Whatever their motivation might be, they have to be stopped.

    They are just envious because they lost the Cold War and democracy won, and now they are looking to undermine democracy through Russian aggression.

    Hitler fought to save civilization, but what is civilization without democracy? If someone was to conduct a survey in the west, asking one simple question: Do you want to live in a world without democracy, I am sure that the answer that will come back will be a resounding NO – we don’t want to live in a world without democracy.

    So don’t doubt west’s resolve when it comes to capital(ist) ideas like that: saving democracy has the same priority like saving civilization once had for Hitler – hopefully the whole BS propaganda project will meet the same fate as Hitler’s “saving the civilization” pet project.

    • Replies: @Mulegino1
  458. Mulegino1 says:
    @Cyrano

    Russia is now a sovereign Christian nation under the leadership a world historical figure, which is more than can be said for the EU (outside of Poland and Hungary).

    The western liberal democracies, particularly most of the EU nations, are sick pathetic jokes with an overtly homosexual agenda- and they are being overrun by a tsunami of third world Muslims, thanks to their suicidal immigration policies.

    A European Union whose members punish nonagenarian citizens for thought crimes is hardly preferable to Hitler’s vision of a proud and unapologetic united Europe of Nations. Just how many lives and how many cultural landmarks and homes did the Allies have to destroy to achieve the “liberation” of Europe?

  459. Avery says:
    @Mulegino1

    {The Germans were the best trained and most efficient fighting men, }

    Quite true. (in the beginning)
    Germans in WW2 also had excellent generals and officers. (in the beginning)
    However, as the war went on, Red Army generals and officers learned and adapted.
    The large-scale operations, such as Operation Bagration (1944), clearly prove Soviet/Slavic generalship and officers had become as good as, if not better, than the excellent Germans generalship and officer corps.

    {Hitler had his reasons for invading the Soviet Union and they had very little to do with “lebensraum” or visions of world conquest.}

    Yes, it was Lebensraum: the primary goal of Hitler starting WW2 was the extermination of Slavic peoples, so their lands – thus emptied – could be populated by Germanic people.
    Hitler craved the vast, productive, practically endless agricultural lands to the East and the food security it would provide: he well remembered that in WW1 Germany was almost starved to death by her enemies in that war.

    {His decision to preempt the massive invasion forces deploying along the western frontiers of the USSR in the spring of 1941 was a momentous but necessary one,….}

    The classic revisionist excuse.
    Notwithstanding the bogus justification/book by ‘Suvorov’*, there was neither a threat nor a plan by USSR to invade Nazi Germany. Professional military historian American Major Glantz** has debunked that fiction: the Red Army was in no position to mount a massive invasion against Nazi Germany in 1941.

    {It was hardly a mistake. It was a necessary risk, which was undertaken in desperation.}

    Sure it was colossal mistake.
    Hitler never expected to lose.
    He told his generals that all he had to do was kick the door in and USSR would collapse (….or words to that effect). The initial disastrous non-performance of the Red Army re-enforced his faulty belief.

    {, but it ultimately led to a more pernicious and long lasting slavery under the Atlanticist-Zionist banner of NATO/EU hegemony}

    At least you are honest enough to admit that.
    It is even worse: Western Europe has been brainwashed and demoralized by US Neocons running Western Europe, that they are willingly committing suicide by voluntary replacement of indigenous European stock by foreigners. The only European countries which are free of the SorosaVirus are those which….Drum Roll Please……were under Soviet domination: Hungary, Poland, Czechia, Slovacia,….Not all rosy though: although these countries are actively resisting Brussels’ edict to Islamize, some, like Poland, have unfortunately fallen under the spell of NATO.
    ______________
    * ‘Suvorov’ is an amateur ‘historian’, a traitor to his homeland, on the payroll of MI6, who was tasked by his Masters to write the book and the bogus justification. He did a good job: even Ron Unz, a pretty intelligent, well-read man fell for it.

    ** Unlike ‘Suvorov’, Glantz has no ax to grind and is a neutral observer of facts.

    • Agree: Miro23
    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Mulegino1
    , @L.K
  460. Wally says:
    @Avery

    said:
    “Yes, it was Lebensraum: the primary goal of Hitler starting WW2 was the extermination of Slavic peoples, so their lands – thus emptied – could be populated by Germanic people.”

    Laughable Zionist BS. You have no proof whatsoever, or you would have presented it.

    also said:
    “Professional military historian American Major Glantz has debunked that fiction: the Red Army was in no position to mount a massive invasion against Nazi Germany in 1941. ”
    No he did not. Not even close. See your Zionist nonsense trashed here, and there’s more than just Suvorov. Oops!
    Stalin’s Aggressive War Plans Disclosed and: http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/03/04/Stalin_plans.html
    and: Albert Weeks: “Stalin’s Other War: Soviet Grand Strategy 1939-1941” Rowman & Littlefield, 2003,

    The documents reveal that Stalin was planning to wage offensive war against Germany and, in fact, the West as a whole as a “windfall” from a second world war.

    Also, Stalin’s own speech and much more.

    http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/03/04/Stalin_plans.html

    Glantz also savaged here:
    Operation Barbarossa Was A Preventive Attack

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7999

    http://www.codoh.com

  461. Not to take anything away from this article, but I believe Gerd von Rundstedt, in conversations with Basil Liddell Hart after the war, observed that the German soldiers of WWI were steadier under the barrage than their WWII counterparts-of course it may have been because they had more experience of heavy shelling.

    • Replies: @L.K
  462. Mulegino1 says:
    @Avery

    Glantz does not only have an axe to grind- as a Zionist Jew he was born with a built in grinder.

    The classic revisionist excuse.
    Notwithstanding the bogus justification/book by ‘Suvorov’*, there was neither a threat nor a plan by USSR to invade Nazi Germany. Professional military historian American Major Glantz** has debunked that fiction: the Red Army was in no position to mount a massive invasion against Nazi Germany in 1941.

    The position of most of the Soviet forces on June 22, 1941 really says it all. Had the Soviets had no intention of initiating an enormous westward offensive, they would not have placed the bulk of their armies in vulnerable salients.

    • Agree: Beefcake the Mighty
    • Replies: @L.K
  463. Anonymous[300] • Disclaimer says:

    But now, Germany is being overrun with Turks and other Muslims.

    The Germans are clearly weak, dumb, and suicidal.

  464. L.K says:
    @Mulegino1

    Hey Mulegino,

    I’m well aware of the fact that Glantz is biased, to the point some folks have jokingly called him the Ambrose of the Eastern front, in reference to “apple pie” Ambrose, the highly biased US historian…

    That said, I never heard of the notion he is a Jew or a Zionist. Do you have any solid source for that?

    Re this Avery character, it is impossible to reason with a person who is both a hysteric and, more importantly, a LIAR.

  465. L.K says:
    @JoaoAlfaiate

    What can be said with a high degree of confidence is that the WW1 German army, just like their counterparts in WW2, had a higher level of military effectiveness than both the Western allies and the Russians/Soviets.

    • Replies: @Momus
  466. L.K says:
    @Avery

    Hysteric avery:

    Professional military historian American Major Glantz

    pfffhahaHAHHAHAHAHA
    Jesus, at least get the guy’s rank right, he is a Colonel not a Major.

    I bet you never even read Glantz. Your desperate idiocy about “professional” vs “amateur” historians has zero merit, but what about all the many “professional” historians, including many Russians, who have largely agreed with Suvorov, particularly in the sense that your Stalinist heroes were indeed planning to attack Germany in the summer of 1941?
    An incomplete list of such Russian historians include:

    Russian military historian Dr. Mikhail Meltiukhov of the Russian Institute of Documents and Historical Records Research, Russian historian M. Nikitin, V. A. Nevezhin, Colonel V. D. Danilov, Igor Bunich, Irina. V. Pavlova, V. L. Doroshenko, Boris Sokolov, B.N.Petrov, Vladimir Neveshin, M. Solonin, C. Pleshakov, Dr.Alexander Pronin, Prof. Dr. Maria Litowskaja, Colonel Kiselev, Dr. Dschangir Nadschafov, faculty director of the Institute of General History of the Russian Academy of Sciences, P. Bobylev, T. Bushueva, Y. Felshtinskiy…

    Russian historian Irina Pawlowa, for instance, states that from an objective POV, the German attack cannot be denied its preventive character. Furthermore;

    …historians at Novosibirsk University undertook a major revisionist study of the immediate prewar situation. The results of this scholarly seminar were published in April 1995.
    Russian historian I. V. Pavlova, stated bluntly in her seminar contribution that for decades Communist Party historians worked to bury the background, origins and development of the Second World War, including Stalin’s August 1939 speech, under a mountain of lies.

    Another of the participating scholars, V. L. Doroshenko, said that the new evidence shows that “Stalin provoked and unleashed the Second World War.” Suggesting that Stalin and his regime should have been on trial at Nuremberg, Doroshenko went on explain:

    … Not just because Stalin helped Hitler but because it was in Stalin’s own interests that the war begin. First, because of his general goal of seizing power in Europe, and, second, because of the immediate advantage of destroying Poland and taking over Galicia. But Stalin’s most important motive was the war itself … The collapse of the European order would have made it possible for him to establish his dictatorship [over all of Europe].

    To this end, Stalin wanted for the time being to stay out of the war, but only with the intention of entering it at the most favorable moment. In other words, the nonaggression pact freed Hitler’s hands and encouraged Germany to unleash a war [in Poland]. As Stalin signed the Pact, he was already determined to break it. Right from the outset he did not intend to stay out of the conflict but, to the contrary, to enter the war directly at the most advantageous moment.

    Anyway, these and many other facts have already been pointed out to you before, but, as the lying shill you are, you must simply go on copying and pasting your sad little lies.
    Keep lying, we’ll keep telling the truth.

    P.S. one can see Unz article has pissed you off… Good! :-)

  467. L.K says:
    @Julian

    Well Julian, you obviously wrote your ridiculous post while looking at yourself in the mirror…

    It’s called projection.

    Israeli dissident Gilad Atzmon refers to the holocaust as dogmatic religion and he is absolutely correct.

  468. L.K says:
    @Bukowski

    One of the reasons for the German defeat which is not generally discussed is how high treason played a part. There were a large number of traitors in high positions in the German armed forces who handed over battle plans to the enemy. They also sabotaged the war effort by deliberately slowing down production of armaments or withholding of material from being sent to the front or contradicting orders with the intention to sow confusion.

    Very true and the article you mention is pretty good.

    Further reasons, besides the obvious weaker axis position re manpower, strategic raw materials, GDP, geography, was the fact the axis countries basically never coordinated their war strategies, essentially fighting parallel wars that often hurt each other.

    The allies, despite their obvious diffs, cooperated much more closely, even with re to the Soviets.

  469. Momus says:
    @L.K

    What can be said with a high degree of confidence is that the WW1 German army, just like their counterparts in WW2, had a higher level of military effectiveness than both the Western allies and the Russians/Soviets.

    And they lost in humiliating fashion both times with a Jewish soldier behind their Western Front defeat.

    WW1 historians are now crediting General John Monash, AIF commander and Ashkenazi Jewish General with devising the strategy that cost the Germans Hamel in 1918 and paved the way for their routing later that year.

    Monash was good with tactics too and stooged the Germans by repeatedly bombing their lines with smoke and gas. On the day of his attack it was only smoke so the Krauts were all gas masked and clothed up and easily overcome.

  470. Wally says:
    @Julian

    So then, show us the proof for the alleged ’6M’. Simple request.
    Show us proof for your laughable “facts”.
    You cannot, nor can szopen. All you can do is dodge & run.
    recommended:’
    Lectures on the Holocaust / Controversial Issues Cross-Examined
    By Germar Rudolf
    The ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    see the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

  471. LetsPlay says:

    Such gratuitous admiration of an enemy of the world, so long after the fact, is quite despicable.
    No where in this tripe is there mention of Hitler’s gambit to rebuild Germany’s military a decade before launching his attempted takeover of the European continent.

    Praising troops who were conscripted very early but were actually indoctrinated since their youth in a fanatical mentality and furor to devotion for their beloved Fuhrer, ignores the years of training, physically and mentally for war time activities.

    This time advantage also include the “head start” in navy, air force, and weapons development that other countries did not, maybe due to their own ignorance, embark on until their feet were already in the fire. Combine those factors with proxy war development of tactics and strategies in the Spanish Civil War, and you have a war tested machine that was honed while actually “illegal” according to the Versailles Treaty. But no one did anything about it.

    So yes, initially, the German military over powered, over whelmed everyone in their neighborhood. And those entering the war late, started basically from scratch. The US, having disassembled it’s military following the Great War, stumbled into this fight with WW1 vintage equipment. So yes, the ramp up in forces from the “citizen soldier” and the industrial machine was less than impressive.

    Admiration for the ingenuity and flexibility of the German soldier hides the fact that at high levels really screwed the pooch. Yes, going was easy when everyone was surprised with this new, high powered war machine. But when faced with stiff resistance, while the men in the ranks might have displayed the fighting spirit of warriors past, the leadership, especially the ego-maniac Hitler, spread his forces too far, in too many directions, and underestimated the capabilities of the allies.

    Reading such stuff after years of reading history smacks of revisionism at it’s worst. And what is not surprising is that this comes from a Brit. Given what is going on in England today, I would say that it is a perfect example of a people coming unglued. One can admire their adversary, but to go to this extent so long after the fact and with such selective focus is pathetic.

    No surprise. SPLC. Holocaust denier. Go figure.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Mike P
  472. peterAUS says:
    @LetsPlay

    Good post.

    Well, up to that “denier” quip, anyway.

    • Replies: @LetsPlay
  473. LetsPlay says:
    @peterAUS

    @Peter
    I’m new to this site and trying to figure it out. I guess, if I read things correctly, this seems to be an Alt-right, anti-Jew, pro-Nazi type site. Or maybe it is more accurate to just call it a white supremacist site? Just the couple of articles I have read, the “historians” certainly have a bent for polishing Germany’s actions in WW2.

    But I am not one to define WW2 as a fight for the injustices done to the Jewish people. It was a fight to free Europe from a Dictator, a few dictators who would want to control the world. The fact that genocide was going on at the same time was something that became the narrative after the war and when evidence came to light.

    In any case, it smacks of the globalist powers that we are fighting today. The industrialists who are the large wealth holders today are the survivors of WW2 and the beneficiaries of things like the Marshall Plan and the establishment of the UN. The same goes for Asia and the Middle East which the UN divvied up for political and economic considerations and not the local populations.

    Sorry, I guess this just goes to show how intertwined a lot of things are. But powers create chaos so they can do their dirty deeds. Kind of like what is happening today.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  474. peterAUS says:
    @LetsPlay

    I’m new to this site and trying to figure it out.

    I’d suggest using slow and careful approach.

    I guess, if I read things correctly, this seems to be an Alt-right, anti-Jew, pro-Nazi type site.

    Probably the first, plenty of guys of the second type, some guys of the latest type.
    Hehe…..I am neither, or so I say. Just a curious guy trying to figure things.

    As for this:

    Or maybe it is more accurate to just call it a white supremacist site?Just the couple of articles I have read, the “historians” certainly have a bent for polishing Germany’s actions in WW2.

    please re-read my first sentence.
    You definitely missed a couple of, how to put it, passionate Jews, Indians, Chinese and Japanese guys here. The last thing I’d call them is “white supremacist”….Funny, actually.

    This site is allowing a free speech. THAT is what this site is all about, really.
    Moderation is good and you can even get into heated argument with the owner and still be allowed to keep posting.
    Can’t really think of any other site on the Internet like that. Any.
    And, I’ve been on (public) Internet since 33K modems (or so I say).

    In any case, it smacks of the globalist powers that we are fighting today.

    I guess this just goes to show how intertwined a lot of things are.

    Agree.

    As for

    But powers create chaos so they can do their dirty deeds. Kind of like what is happening today.

    True.
    And most of those ruled by that power simply don’t care, I think.

    That combination is the problem.

    • Replies: @LetsPlay
  475. LetsPlay says:
    @peterAUS

    @Peter,
    Thanks for the reply.

    I know I was shooting from the hip, but I will take your advice and look around a bit more.
    I am just a bit gun shy, so to speak, about visiting sites and finding a less than tolerant crowd with censorship being high on the list. Finding a forum for free exchange of ideas is important to me as I feel the noose against our freedoms tightening.

    And you are right that most people don’t seem to care. That is scary to me and despite my efforts to enlighten even family members, I find it disconcerting and very challenging.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  476. peterAUS says:
    @LetsPlay

    I am just a bit gun shy, so to speak, about visiting sites and finding a less than tolerant crowd with censorship being high on the list.

    Well, the “crowd” here is definitely less than tolerant. You’ll have either to develop a thick skin or/and use “ignore poster” button a lot.
    Moderation works both ways………

    Should you spend some time here you’ll find some rather…ahm…colorful….characters around.
    I even think I spotted a couple of full fledged psychopaths.

    Good fun.

    Free will.

    • Replies: @LetsPlay
  477. Mike P says:
    @anonymous

    These are obviously just a bunch of enlisted men, not the general staff. Feel free to provide a group photo of enlisted men belonging to a superior race/nation/army of your choice.

  478. LetsPlay says:
    @peterAUS

    @Peter

    At least this site isn’t monitored by a “service” like Disqus. I don’t mind going mano-a-mano with others but when you start getting censored and have no recourse, well then, it gets very frustrating.

    Thanks for the heads up! I look forward to some interesting debates as the world burns.

  479. Mike P says:
    @LetsPlay

    Most of your points are completely irrelevant to the main argument of the article, which deals with the professionalism of the German military only, not with the feasibility or legitimacy of the political leadership’s overall goals and strategy.

  480. LetsPlay says:

    The reason I mentioned those other points is because I understand them to be the basis for building the “character” of the men (and women) fighting in the German forces. When you compare more than a decade of psychological and physical preparation for believing you are superior to any one else, and you are backed up by the development of a military machine that gives you an unrivaled advantage versus your neighbors, you would tend to believe you are “Uber Alles!” Historically, maybe they had to fight more because they were more land locked and surrounded by enemies, but their dominance was due to leadership that foresaw what was needed and planned ahead.

    I do not believe that Germans, as a people, are more innately militaristic than other peoples in the sense of the individual citizen and his determination to fight for the Fatherland. I am saying that the German people had a “head start” in the war and when it was unleashed, the rest of the world had to catch up and they did so almost too late.

    We can give all due respect and admiration to the German fighting man but that does not negate the fact that Germany did lose the war. And there are various reasons why. For me, the main reasons were 1. loss of focus: The war for Europe could have been won by invading Britain; Once that was accomplished, any kind of D-Day scenario of the Allies invading fortress Europe would have been next to impossible. Why Hitler deviated from this goal, believed his generals, and let the Brits escape Dunkirk; turn East to Russia with Barbarosa; and expend so many resources on next to useless weapons and technologies, favoring size and complexity over simplicity and quantity diverted so many resources that the drain had to affect the outcome.

    Add to that side issues of resources and efforts to execute the Final Solution, and to conduct the greatest criminal enterprise at the same time and you have so much wasted that could have been brought to bear to change the outcome. Germany could have ruled Europe. It could have co-existed with the Soviet Union. It would have had all the resources it needed, or said they needed when the war started. It would have strengthened it’s southern flank with Italy and inevitably Spain. It would have been in control of the Mediterranean and North Africa. But as in most megalomaniacal cases, overreach was the downfall.

    Stretched too thin, the Allies devised a plan to attack from all sides with, albeit, inferior weapons at least initially, to drain the German machine of the resources it desperately needed. The lesson to me anyway, is to have a plan, a modest one, to focus and not to overreach and stretch your resources too thin. And my goodness, doesn’t anyone learn from history! Attacking Russia going into winter?

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  481. peterAUS says:
    @LetsPlay

    The war for Europe could have been won by invading Britain; Once that was accomplished….

    Royal Navy, backed up by Royal Air Force……..vs landing force.

    …..why…. turn East to Russia with Barbarosa….

    Lebensraum.

    …It could have co-existed with the Soviet Union…..

    Stopped reading here.

    • Replies: @LetsPlay
  482. LetsPlay says:
    @peterAUS

    Ok, ok, on the last point maybe I overreached on co-existence with the Russkies. My main point was to emphasize the loss of focus, over reach, and well, stupidity. The Germans had lots of things in their favor but still managed to screw the pooch in many ways. In many ways though, the Fourth Reich has risen in Brussels and has been working to take over Europe by other means and we see how well that is working out. Greed is America’s main fault. Why we helped rebuild Germany and Japan post WW2 is beyond me. Instead of creating the UN, we should have hunted down all the war criminals worldwide until they were all dead. And I am not focusing on the Jewish Holocaust here, just the world war and it’s devastating effects to the entire world. Calling an end to the war just to get back to business as usual is dumb. And having the industries, e.g. steel, shipping, guns, pharma, etc., responsible for the war simply rebuild and carry on as if nothing happened is a disgrace. I don’t consider it humanitarian or peaceful in any way. Those people made their loot on the backs of millions and needed to pay.

    • Replies: @Wally
  483. Old Jew says:

    …And whom they faced …..

  484. Old Jew says:

    Slavianka

    ….. they did not return…

    Neither the German Soldiers….

  485. Wally says:
    @LetsPlay

    said:
    “And I am not focusing on the Jewish Holocaust here, just the world war and it’s devastating effects to the entire world.”

    And we know why you are “not focusing on the Jewish Holocaust here”. LOL Because you have no proof for it.
    But give it a try. Please present your proof for the “Jewish Holocaust”.

    Please show us the alleged remains of millions of Jews whose locations are claimed to known to this day.

    Please tell us how the scientifically impossible ‘gas chambers’ supposedly worked.

    The ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    See the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

  486. FB says:
    @Wally

    The Nazis abducted over 12 million people into slave labor…

    You’re obviously mentally retarded and have almost certainly never traveled to those places in Europe where these events of WW2 took place…and quite certainly have no familial connection to anyone who took part in those events in any capacity…

    The only thing trailer trash like you know is to squeeze out wet farts from digesting your stormfront baloney 24/7…

    I’ve seen you repeatedly pointing to this codoh crapsite here…started by one Bradley R Smith…who never served in WW2 [unlike every male member of my own family of that generation]…nor probably has even been to those places in Europe about which he professes to ‘research’…

    Just a ridiculous clown driven by hate and prejudice…raising a stink and attracting dung beetles like yourself…you’re a disgrace to the human species…

    • Troll: L.K
  487. Yakov says:

    Hitler, was the greatest swine that Germany had ever known. Militarily, ‘the master race’ had no chance against the USSR. In their stupidity the Nazies hadn’t even prepare for the winter campaign. After the initial mobilization the Soviet Union had 8 million men under arms and Hitler’s fate was sealed.

    This is a fringe, pro-nazi, anti-semitic, treacherous site that only undermines American patriotism.

    Where is Germany today? Ruled by a woman, taking orders from a negro, paying reparations to Jews, its population not reproducing and millions of muslims settling in and replacing the natives.

  488. @Thorfinnsson

    There has sprung up, since 1945, a vast mythology which posits that the Anglo-American Allies and the Soviets were inferior military men to the defeated Germans, and that Allied victory was only won through overwhelming numbers and material (logistical) superiority. Surviving German military men – from tank aces to Luftwaffe Experten to ordinary landsers (foot soldiers) to general officers – did nothing to dispel such an image.

    No responsible historian would dare to suggest that the Germans (or for that matter, the Japanese) were anything less than formidable foes. Especially early in the war, before attrition had thinned their ranks, the German and Japanese militaries were elite, battle-hardened fighting forces which gave the Allies fits for the first 24-36 months of the war.

    Having paid that tribute, it is slanderous to suggest that the Allies weren’t very good, even excellent, in the military arts themselves. They had to be, in order to defeat such formidable enemies. There was no more-Darwinian environment on earth than modern industrial age warfare of the kind seen in the mid-20th century.

    The Gods of War ruthlessly took in battle the weak, unlucky and hapless, whereas with each victory, those who survived became even better soldiers. With each victory, the victors taught the vanquished the painful, bloody lessons of how to wage war, such that the students eventually became the masters.

    Skeptics who continue to believe in the myth of Axis war-fighting superiority are urged to read Dr. Richard Overy’s authoritative “Why We Won the War,” the single work which does the best job of asking and answering the question, “Why did the Allies win the war?” The Axis powers were expert fighters, but the Allies had to be even better to best them.

    • Replies: @0352
  489. Stuart says:

    Their weapons were certainly NOT better. They were nicely machined and overly complex in the Teutonic tradition. (As evidenced by BMW even today). Their belt fed machine guns, for instance, had nowhere near the robustness and reliability of the American Browning counterparts. Their Mauser bolt action rifle was totally outclassed by the semi-automatic M1 Garand. Et cetera, et cetera.

    Mainly America won because of industrial capability. Period.

    You will learn every bit as much about implements of war by listening to your Dachshund as by listening to academics.

  490. 0352 says:
    @Avery

    Today’s Germany is the result of the post-WWII castration of Germany by the Allied Powers.

  491. 0352 says:
    @Georgiaboy61

    GeorgiaBoy,
    Wrong! It was the industrial capacity of the United States that defeated NAZI Germany.

  492. One of Germany’s problems was ascribing the same characteristics to Soviet soldiers that the Anglo American ascribed to Germans. At a certain command level, the Red Army suffered a near crippling rigidity. But tactically, the Russians were wily, tough and fanatically dedicated to defending their home country. Popular postwar accounts by German commanders anxious to burnish reputations and look good to their new American bosses who were seeking their counsel on how to fight Russians, filled many books with accounts of vodka fueled human wave attacks by mongoloid Bolshevik subhumans. The German soldier on the front lines knew better and their accounts bear out that once the Soviets shook off the surprise of the initial offensive, they proved a tough smart and resourceful opponent. Even Leon Degrelle gives the devil his due.

  493. @Raymond

    The Confederates can only be said to have “outfought” the Union in Virginia from roughly 1861 to mid 1863.

    In the West, the Confederates had a few victories but generally lurched from one defeat to another.

    And most of Lee’s greatest victories or most famous fights in the East can be chalked up to some glaring deficiency in Union generalship:

    - The Peninsula campaign was a silly idea from the beginning because it allowed the rebels to concentrate their forces in a small area, which is ideal for defense
    - Antietam, which was a draw, could have been a Union victory but McClellan and his generals failed to use their inordinate strength of numbers (more than a third of Lee’s army was away when the battle began) at one time. Instead they attacked pell mell. This allowed Lee to respond adequately to each crisis. Even still, the Yankees broke through on the rebel right flank late in the day before Lee’s very last reserves held them.
    - Fredericksburg was a poorly-conceived bit of strategy and tactics. Yet the brave Yankee infantrymen (The Pennsylvania Reserve division) themselves nearly broke through, with little help from their generals, in Stonewall Jackson’s part of the field. That was on a part of the field totally covered by Confederate artillery. So those Pennsylvanians were some hard SOBs.
    - Chancellorsville happened the way it did, first of all, because the 11th Corps failed to dig in on their flank. Even still, after Jackson’s famous flank attack had understandably failed to bag the whole army at once, the Union army gave the Confederates one heck of a bloody nose in defending their positions on May 3rd. The artillery position at Hazel Grove was the key, and a concussed Joe Hooker let it fall away without much thought. This eventually forced an orderly Yankee retreat. Good, daring plan by Lee, but Grant, Sherman, Thomas, and Meade likely win this battle at that point.
    - Finally, at Gettysburg, everything went right for the Union men, who fought like men possessed against an enemy that seemed slightly unsure of itself.

    And again, this is only in the East. People always, always tend to look at the Virginia, Maryland, and PA campaigns as though they were the only battles in the war. This conveniently allows everyone to ignore just how much more effective the Yankees were west of the Allegheny Mountains. Chickamauga and Perryville are, for example, essentially the only victories of the entire war for the Confederate Army of Tennessee – and Perryville was more like a draw.

  494. Deschutes says:

    Piss, bitch, moan, if only blah blah….another shit article propping up the failed Nazi campaign for world domination. If they were so smart, so superior, so much better overall–why did they lose? Why did they lose?

    They fucked up massively. Face it: you don’t go to war with the world’s major powers with only Japan and Italy as your allies (the other Axis allies aren’t worth mentioning).

    Delusions of grandeur have always been a German failing and still is. They will never get it right, and neither will this author.

    • Replies: @L.K
    , @Wally
  495. L.K says:
    @Deschutes

    another shit article propping up the failed Nazi campaign for world domination

    Hey, imbecile, I bet you did not even read the article, since it is NOT about any “Nazi campaign for world domination”… which any well informed person knows NEVER happened.

    Highly biased, anti-German court historian R. Overy admits:

    Few historians now accept that Hitler had any plan or blueprint for world conquest, in which Poland was a stepping stone to some distant German world empire. Indeed, recent research has suggested that there were almost no plans for what to do with a conquered Poland..

    In point of fact, after the Polish campaign – where the Soviets took part taking half the country – Germany was hit with a war declaration by the Brits and French, who, however, never declared war on the Soviet Union for the exact same action.

    Hitler then offered a peace offer in which Germany would pull out of the part of Poland it had occupied, minus the Danzig and the corridor.

    The Allies were not interested. There were several other peace initiatives by the German leadership later, which could have put an end to the war. Those were also ignored.

  496. L.K says:
    @Generalfeldmarschall con Hindenburg

    Red Army human wave attacks, the liberal use of alcohol, as well as the threat of the armed commissars and , for a while, blocking units, to propel the men into suicidal frontal assaults, and not only in 1941, are absolutely well documented.
    The following account is by a German soldier(Gottlob Herbert Bidermann) who wrote the best Eastern Front memoir I have read. It describes a series of Soviet counter-attacks, 1942;

    …Within minutes we again faced another onslaught, and the sun climbed above the horizon to reveal the full horror of the battlefield. Pushed to hatred and thirst for blood through liberal rations of vodka, the Russians staggered and reeled ahead of the threatening pistols wielded by their commissars, their loud screams of “Urrah!” again lost in the deafening roar of exploding weapons. Over the din I heard the machine gunner cry, “I can’t just keep on killing!” as he squeezed the trigger and held it tightly, sending a stream of bullets from the smoking MG barrel into the masses of attackers. Our Pak projectiles screamed and tore holes in the collapsing ranks. This attack ground to a halt hardly fifty paces from the muzzle of our gun.
    We were positioned on a critical height strategically located near Makensia, and the Red Army was fully aware that if we were permitted to push through to Severnaya Bay their lifeline would be severed. Thus, in immeasurable numbers and multiple assault waves, spurred on by threats, coercion, and patriotic appeals from political commissars, the Russians threw themselves
    against us in charging ranks. Motivated by abundant amounts of vodka and facing the angry muzzle of a commissar’s pistol for any sign of hesitation, they threw themselves against us again and again…

  497. L.K says:
    @Generalfeldmarschall con Hindenburg

    One of Germany’s problems was ascribing the same characteristics to Soviet soldiers that the Anglo American ascribed to Germans.

    You are very confused. Anglo-American propaganda(movies, etc) has to be separated from what the Anglo-American commanders and troops who knew the reality thought about their German opponents, and it was not the hollywood mickey mouse nonsense. Re German officers and soldiers and their feelings towards the Red Army, on avg, they appreciated both their enemies strengths and weaknesses.

    At a certain command level, the Red Army suffered a near crippling rigidity. But tactically, the Russians were wily, tough and fanatically dedicated to defending their home country.

    Actually, at the tactical level, the Red Army was still inferior to the Wehrmacht even very late in the war. This is evident, for instance, by the fact that in the disastrous year of 1944(for the Wehrmacht), and despite great Soviet numerical/material advantages( manpower, artillery, armor, aircraft, etc), the Soviets continued to suffer numerous tactical defeats and the ratio of Soviet to German losses was still 3.53.
    Casualties for the year of 1944, KIA, WIA, MIA:
    Soviets: 6.878.600
    German: 1.947.106

  498. peterAUS says:
    @gmachine1729

    Feedback welcome!

    Well….after stopping reading that piece of yours at

    …Thus, the Anglos are more inclined to win easy wars against vastly weaker opponents which do not require much sacrifice of human life….

    please enjoy the echo chamber with the rest of the “Team Russia”, and USA haters in general, around.
    Have fun.

  499. Highlander says: • Website
    @tamo

    Just as those Imperial Japanese troops couldn’t hold a candle to the United States Marine Corps.

  500. Wally says:
    @Deschutes

    said:
    “Piss, bitch, moan, if only blah blah….another shit article propping up the failed Nazi campaign for world domination.”

    As for your old Zionist canard that the Germans wanted “world domination”, just look at a 1930s map of the world and see who really ‘dominated the world’. LOL

    You are over matched.

    more:
    Did Britain initiate both world wars?

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=10458

    Responsibility for WW2

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7544

    and:
    Introduction to HITLER’S WAR

    http://www.unz.com/article/introduction-to-hitlers-war/

    Who started bombing civilians first: Germany or Great Britain, Britain

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=8172

    Operation Barbarossa Was A Preventive Attack

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7999

  501. Wally says:
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    The claims about Pannwitz and the Slavs are pure, unproven Zionist propaganda.

    Why would anyone sincerely interested in truth quote Jew dominated Wikipedia for anything that is in the economic & political interest of Zionists, Jews?
    You have given yourself away by doing so.

    Zionist Wikipedia Editing Course

    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/139189

    How Israel and Its Partisans Work to Censor the Internet

    http://www.unz.com/article/how-israel-and-its-partisans-work-to-censor-the-internet/?highlight=wikipedia

    on Pannwitz:

    https://codoh.com/search/?sorting=relevance&q=pannwitz

  502. @Wally

    Listen, you one trick pony, I made no negative claims about Pannwitz.

    My claim about Pannwitz is that he was an excellent military commander of true courage. He was deeply devoted to his men, in whom he instilled great discipline, and he sacrificed his own life to stay true to them. I claim he was a good man.

    If you have a problem with that, then you are a loony toon.

    I linked to Wikipedia because it did provide a rough outline of the man’s life.

  503. Mulegino1 says:
    @gmachine1729

    Thank you, I certainly enjoyed your article! Well written and informative.

  504. Mike Ross says:

    Hitler was a secret agent of the illuminati brotherhood , who’s mission was to lead Germany , to an intended complete collapse and total annihilation . This was to pave the way for soviet communism , to expand and occupy into the whole of continental Europe , by means of russian aggression westward . { The war was providential for stalin , because it quelled dangerous and building home rebellion , by unifying russians against an external enemy , while making allies of potential opponents , and setting up future victims , in the ” long game ” . } The trick was to make plausible , any large number of explanations , for the failure of the german highly proficient military war machine , and the insolvency of excellent command & general leadership talent . This would keep people arguing , and never coming to the correct conclusions . { There were many ” arch ” traitors , and enemy special agents ; for example – General Friedrich Wilhelm Ernst Paulus , commanding the 6th Army at Stalingrad . } There were the unexpected and unintended glitches ( combined with resistance from opposition ) that resulted in only the partial fulfillment , of the ” chosen ones ” objectives . { see the subject – “ The Transfer Agreement “ } The world wars { broad or local } have been used as stepping stones , of the continuing world wide conspiracy , among all the nation states { on both sides of every conflict } . Wars are for profit / debt and controlling outcomes , to establish a new world order { NWO } , by killing select populations and weakening , to destroy christian civilization . The next planned world war looms soon , and will lead to the completion , of what the conspirators { snake men } consider , as their serpent god lucifer’s – ” great work ” . It will be an absolute tyranny and total panopticon ; of the techno , occult and anti – christ empire . It is prophesied and foretold , in THE HOLY BIBLE . In the light of the scripture , it can be helpful to evaluate Henry Makow’s take , on the illuminati and the world wars , at his website . Be on your guard , and keep your head up . The more you learn , and come to and know , the more hopeless it may seem . And that is the capital leading lesson , of GOD’S major points , for mankind and the entire universe , in the last days . The only true hope is JESUS CHRIST – THE GRAND PRINCE , THE GRAND DUKE , THE GRAND MARSHAL AND ADMIRAL , THE LORD MASTER CHIEF AND COMMANDER , THE ONE TRUE GOD KING ALMIGHTY , THE GRAND MASTER OVER ALL HIS UNIVERSAL DOMAIN . —- ( Try fighting GOD , If anyone thinks they can , and in the end – loose very big , and when coming to the judgement – receive only evil consequences , for and to themselves , and same on their confederates . )

  505. my2cents says:
    @tamo

    @tamo.
    You can do all the begging you want. The reality of those occupied by the Germans, as I was, IS that the Germans were extremely disciplined and polite. Since I was a young child my mother always talked about them as being “extremely correct in their behavior” We had Einkwartierung of 2 German soldiers. We also had in our home an Austrian deserter hiding, brought to us by the resistance. In addition we had a young kid hiding who was supposed to have gone to Germany as slave labor. Now that whole group ended up playing cards in the evening….Anyone that speaks or understands German can recognize an Austrian, by his accent, a mile away, so the notion that those 2 soldiers did not know what that Austrian was doing in our home is lunacy. They knew YET they never reported my parents.
    Now about the Canadians and American….no discipline, stole anything that was not nailed down.
    It was theirs for the taking. Americans still believe they can invade/attack any country, naming them “a regime” in order to steal their oil/minerals or treasure.
    Now in Dutch/Indonesia which was under Japanese occupation, the Japanese conduct was extremely
    bad. There are book written about their criminal conduct. I suggest you read them

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