The Unz Review: An Alternative Media Selection
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 Gene Tuttle Archive
Europe’s Youngest Head of Government Inaugurated in Vienna
On immigration, not all millennial hearts beat to the left
🔊 Listen RSS
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>
Austrian Kurz on way to becoming new Chancellor

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Troll, or LOL with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used once per hour.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

“Watergate” Carl Bernstein pleasantly surprised me last May by agreeing that widespread use of the “anti-immigrant” mantra often reflected careless journalism. Since our brief exchange at Vienna’s Concordia Press Club coffee bar, news organizations have been applying the term promiscuously to characterize Austria’s newly elected coalition government, sworn in on December 18th. Bernstein, whose talk had been more about President Trump, acknowledged that “anti-mass immigration” was probably a fairer and more accurate label in most cases.

Carl Bernstein addressing Vienna journalists

Carl Bernstein addressing Vienna journalists

It sounds like nit-picking. But there is a vastly different message conveyed by the failure to differentiate. Those concerned about the large, rapid increase in immigration levels are thrown into the same pot as a small minority of xenophobes who dislike foreigners per se. Both in Germany and in Austria, political parties to the right of the long established center-right ones have made huge gains by addressing the problem outright. Austrian Sebastian Kurz, at 27 Europe’s youngest foreign minister, just became its youngest government head at 31 by following suit and reversing years of losses by his establishment conservative People’s Party (ÖVP). He did so partially by distancing himself on the immigration issue from Germany’s Chancellor Angela Merkel’s “refugee welcome” policies. And by working out a coalition agreement with the right-wing Free Democrats (FPÖ), Kurz is now Merkel’s Austrian counterpart while Merkel — who weeks before Austria’s October election had lost badly in Germany’s own elections — is still struggling to patch together a new government.

Merkel and her conservative Christian Democrats (CDU/CSU) have steadfastly refused to work with the new, right-wing anti-mass immigration Alternative for Deutschland (AfD). As a result, Germany may not have a stable government until long into the New Year. Lengthy coalition talks with smaller German political parties recently fell apart. A major stumbling point was the issue of how many family members the massive numbers of refugees arriving in recent years can bring up from the Middle East.

Germany’s outgoing coalition partner and second largest political party, the Social Democrats (SPD), had immediately foresworn participation in yet another “grand coalition” government. They had suffered an even greater electoral defeat than Merkel’s conservatives. Merkel has shown some readiness to move closer to her “upstart” young Austrian counterpart in taking a slightly tougher stance on migration from across the Mediterranean. But despite the declining support from the SPD’s traditional working class base, Germany’s center-left party so far refuses to go along with Merkel’s modest proposals for greater migrant control.

Austria’s newly successful ÖVP is an exception among Europe’s establishment parties, especially the social democrat varieties who have tried to stem voter loss by accusing competitors to the right of pandering to immigration “fears.” The strategy is a safe way of implying that lost voters are misguided sissies whose reasonableness can be restored and fears relieved through increased government largesse. Liberals, who find it perfectly acceptable to maintain a neighborhood’s character through zoning laws, frequently scorn those resisting neighborhood changes fostered by a mass importation of migrants with radically different social mores. Such immigration liberals usually expect the changes to occur in other peoples’ neighborhoods, where existing residents are less financially equipped to pull up stakes and move elsewhere.

The establishment parties’ former supporters are condescendingly reminded that their societies will not return to the halcyon days when Turkish guest workers were a manageable exception to a more homogeneous European population. Proposed formulae for fending off potential culture clashes with the mostly Muslim new arrivals involve better and more expensive programs for integrating them.

The fixation on integration at the height of the 2015 migrant invasion had led Berlin-based Swiss journalist Frank Meyer in a televised round table discussion to characterize colleagues and politicians across Germany’s broad parliamentary spectrum as part of a common “Glaubensgemeinschaft,” or “community of the faithful.” An article of the common faith, in addition to confidence that governments can effectively integrate newly arrived exotic masses, was that hindering their arrival would be unfair. Barriers should be mitigated, whether man-made or natural. Other EU member states should take in more of the refugees, especially the East Europeans who were never consulted when Merkel initially welcomed the migrant masses.

The “Glaubensgemeinschaft,” comprised of the MSM, establishment political parties from center right and left (as well as the Greens and the far left Linke Party), have been predictably hostile to Austria’s new government, one of the few in the EU to include what some still call an “extreme right” political party. EU government leaders, on the other hand, generally offered polite congratulations to their new Austrian counterparts. That was far from the case the last time Austria’s center and far right parties teamed up in the year 2000. Brussels then imposed diplomatic sanctions on Vienna which were eventually viewed as counterproductive.

Demonstrators kept far from new government leaders

Demonstrators kept far from new government leaders

The thousands of demonstrators protesting the swearing in of the new government in Vienna, many carrying the ritual anti-Nazi placards, are not likely to maintain the energy of over 17 years ago when marches and demonstrations were held once a week for well over a year. Opponents have had time to get used to a tougher government stance against mass immigration. Kurz as Foreign Minister as well as his former socialist party (SPÖ) senior coalition partners had distanced themselves since 2015 from their parties’initial embrace of their northern neighbor’s “open door” declaration. Although the SPÖ replaced its chancellor with one who was more amenable to tighter immigration controls, both Kurz and the FPÖ opposition wanted to go much further.

Longer experience might have also helped the FPÖ to avoid some mistakes that dragged their German AfD counterparts into needless additional controversy. Well over a year ago the latter got lured into discussing an ultima ratio scenario that accepted the use of firearms against migrants defying border fences and police orders to halt.

American journalist Sasha Polakow-Suransky is among the legions of Cassandras to point to this and other AfD remarks in supporting the thesis of his new book: “Go Back to Where You Came From: The Backlash Against Immigration and the Fate of Western Democracy.” The remarks are usually taken out of context, as former Financial Times reporter David Goodhart noted in a December debate on Al Jazeera’s “Up Front” program, “moderated” by Mehdi Hasan. Goodhart doesn’t share Suransky’s tendency to equate liberal democracy with tolerance of open borders. In a book of his own, according to an article in the Independent, Goodhart observed that in England “since 2004, more people have arrived each year than in the whole period from 1066 to 1950.” That’s the kind of context that should make critics of the Suransky stripe a bit more understanding of why “far-right populist” parties are cashing in on the backlash.

Such context might also help Mehdi Hasan too! At the Oxford Union a few years ago, Hasan’s aggressive moderation style nearly had the polite Oxford economics professor Paul Collier tongue-tied. Collier, like Goodhart, has serious reservations about the benefit of mass Third World immigration to Europe. In Collier’s own book on the subject, “Exodus,” he used the term “indigenous” British which Hasan, whose parents were from India, found deeply offensive. A less defensive Collier might have suggested that Europeans’ use of tribal nomenclature should be no more offensive than referring to descendents of America’s pre-Columbian inhabitants as indigenous peoples. Although in pushing for such claimed status, without evidence , Massachusetts Senator Elizabeth Warren, aka “Pocahontas,” might have unknowingly reinforced Hasan’s concerns that exclusion from “indigenous status” must incur some disadvantage. A cowed Professor Collier hesitatingly agreed that Hasan was indeed an “indigenous” Brit.

Keep Nazis from governing and marching

Keep Nazis from governing and marching

Europe’s left will seize every opportunity to portray Austria’s new government as xenophobic and racist. Vienna will be kept more discretely on the “watch list” of other centrist EU establishment parties. But the self-assurance and tactfulness of Austria’s young new leadership is encouraging.

Karin Kneissl, the country’s new Foreign Minister, has been publically critical of many European leaders whom she’ll now have to work with. But even though she left her short diplomatic career early to work as an independent lecturer and journalist, the skills she acquired should equip her for the challenges ahead. Having taken opposite sides on issues during two TV round table discussions with her, I was reminded of the quip about the ideal diplomat being able to tell someone to go to hell in a way that one will look forward to the trip. As I told an ex-US Assistant Secretary of State for Near East Affairs months later, when introducing Kneissl to him, she had three advantages over me in the debates: German is her native language, she speaks Arabic after having lived in the region, and she was right and I was wrong.

I was wrong as well in assuming that her background as “an Arabist” would have rendered her an apologist for Germany and Austria’s initial encouragement of mass immigration from the Arab world. Her carefully analyzed criticisms, however, surprised many of us and attracted the attention of the FPÖ who eventually nominated the party-independent scholar to head the foreign ministry.

Although one of the EU’s smaller states, Austria may punch above its weight in pushing for reasonable and effective Europe-wide immigration policies. The new government will include strengthening of external border controls, the broadening of refugee status adjudication claims closer to their countries of origin and more robust measures to return migrants whose refugee status claims had been rejected. Former Soviet Bloc countries can probably count on more support in resisting EU measures for what the Germans in particular deem as a fairer distribution of refugees.

And maybe, like Carl Bernstein, the MSM will come to acknowledge the difference between anti-immigration and anti-mass immigration. Hope springs eternal!

Gene Tuttle, a retired US diplomat, lives in Vienna Austria

 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: Austria, European Right, Immigration 
Hide 85 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
    []
  1. FKA Max says: • Website

    The New Austria Will Change Europe

    Hey guys, I will try to give you the key points of the coalition contract of the new Austrian government under the new chancellor Sebastian Kurz.

    Austria is the canary in the coal mine.

    http://www.unz.com/jderbyshire/austrians-vote-against-muslim-anschluss-get-called-nazis/#comment-2051877

  2. Going , going, gone!
    What Newton law said about action and reaction is false.
    Reaction is always more powerful than action.

    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
  3. Schon früh schickte ich einen Glückwunschbrief an Präsident Kurtz und wünschte ihm und seiner schönen Frau viel Erfolg. Meine Frau und ich werden bald nach Kitzbühel Österreich reisen, um unsere Jahre zu leben. Das deutsche Volk wird bald einen solchen wie Herrn Kurtz finden, der den Verräter Merkel ersetzt.

    • Replies: @Hamish
    , @Hu Mi Yu
  4. mikael says:

    Hehe
    The reason for some of us to hammer the present Austrians, is this, and it baffles me that I have to explain it, to me, this little creep is an controlled opposition, period.
    Anything that is to good to be true, usually, is to good to be true.

    Islam, the moment he whines about Islam I knew instinctively that He is an ISISraeli bitch, is because of this stupid display of ignorance, witch I think is probably genuine but never the less, plays straight into the hands of our PC-infested MSM, He gives the Leftards the ammunition they need, just by focusing on Islam per-see and all the hasbaratnjiks witch have had the same narrative for decades, attack Islam and more hidden is the staggering hypocrisy they display on the attacks on Christians, witch is done by the same Hasbarah rats, flowing into everywhere where ISISrael is in the lime light.
    This Creep feeds the beast, this is what I warned you about, this is also the reason for some of the harsh attacks coming from the MSM, aka Islamaphobia, and I agrees, this reeks of propaganda war all over the place.

    I have been consistent all the time, throw the rats out, and do it now, kick em all out, because this invasion, is coming from the same Group that uses this events to highlight the Islamaphobia, and I can understand the Austics, no doubt about that, but to create this staggering amount of utter ignorance about Islam is what I am against, Islam is NOT the problem, Sore-ass associates, the MSM witch the scums own, etc, is the problem, our Gov, in Norway supports and helps Wahabbi scums, witch is an cult witch have nothing to do with Islam other than coming from the region, why is it that this isnt mentioned by the Austrics, do enlighten me.
    Because of Saudi-barbaria, and ISISrael, whom uses them as an weapon, god you are ignorant.

    Its the same as calling all Wankees for been Christians, nobody does that, why, but when it comes to Africans, Arabs, etc, they all are “Muslims”.
    That is the problem, the entire debate, the screaming in the Commentary field, about Islam makes our case much, much more difficult, do you understand that, you may whine and complain, but I will never accuse Islam, never, because Islam is an peaceful religion, period.

    Again, I will remind you about Syriza styled psy-ops, if you get the picture, I dont count on it, that makes me sad, because the screaming isnt helping, at all.
    And this invasion is done by purpose, and its designed to crash our lands, but attack those that makes this happen, scums like MaCrony, the hideous Merkel thing, and so on, to our Norwegian Khazarian rat pack whom is on both sides of the left/right, there is no difference what so ever.
    They are the ones creating this, not Islam.
    But again, the lack of balls to have the guts to do something, and that is by elections, and finally why on earth do people care about the little pack of leftards whom is given MSM coverage, they are the “heroes”, and as mentioned above, is an part of the same psy-op.

    peace

    • Replies: @jack ryan
  5. Words are cheap. Remember Merkel’s infamous “multiculturalism has failed” speech in 2010? What happened five years later?

    Kurz knows where the wind is blowing and he is ambitious. Whether he has any real core convictions other than to get re-elected remains to be seen. Western electorates have shown themselves to be passified extremely easily and the establishment has noticed. Throw a few token bones and most people will calm down and let the colonisation continue apace, if at somewhat slightly slower speed than before.

    This is also a test for the FPÖ, the so-called ‘far right’. In most instances where the so-called ‘far right’ has come into coalition(Denmark is a notable example) they have done precious little to stem the flood other than to merely delay it slightly a few years. It remains to be seen whether Austria is any different.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  6. The strategy is a safe way of implying that lost voters are misguided sissies whose reasonableness can be restored and fears relieved through increased government largesse.

    Not quite. What’s happening is that resources are being diverted away from indigenous Europeans towards refugees. People have noticed.

  7. Renoman says:

    Everybody hates the Muslims, it’s pretty simple, what’s to like?

  8. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Tuttle’s hapless attempt to obscure militarism depends upon tossing about our two favorite key words for the desired Pavlovian response – right and left.

    It’s better for the children you see, something an old whore like Bernstein would confirm, to present an understanding of world events in the simplest of terms – us vs them or right vs left – which makes for the best propaganda.

    Nearly as soon as the ruling order decides that the inflow of cannon fodder has outlived its usefullness the appearance of a revolutionary change appears through the fraudulent referendum system to build walls, shut the gates, or throw them out. Meanwhile, the key problems remain out of sight and out of mind.

  9. The FPÖ has a huge advantage over the AfD in that it is more an organic part of the national fabric. FPÖ members have been in elite Austrian business circles for years, and have perennially been the elite in Kärnten. FPÖ politicians tend to radiate strength, wholesomeness and health. The AfD was started by a nerdy economics professor, grew in strength among East Germans and was run until recently by a prickly mannish female. A sort of pinched crabby outsider status seems to run deep in the AfD DNA which makes them very offputting to female voters. A CSU led CDU/CSU is maybe a better hope for Germany.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    , @Gruben
    , @German_reader
  10. I didn’t get very far, though this article may be very informative. It’s this cuck-out line in the 2nd paragraph that got me to stop reading:

    Those concerned about the large, rapid increase in immigration levels are thrown into the same pot as a small minority of xenophobes who dislike foreigners per se.

    Who cares about your different “pots”? Those xenophobes * have every right to not like people of any sort, and when the amount of said people goes up by an order of magnitude or two, they have 10x or 100x the reason to be pissed.

    See, Mr. Tuttle, I can’t read every damn thing on the internet, maybe not even 10% of it during my morning coffee. When I run across lines that make me just think the writer is full of it, I stop right there, for that reason – there are other things to read. This may be a very good article, as I said, but I’ll just comment here, and move on. Just don’t cuck-out, and this sort of thing won’t happen.

    * PLEASE NOTE: I am not a Xenophobe!

    • Disagree: iffen
  11. Heros says:

    They already purged the party of “holocaust deniers”, and Kurz has already gone groveling before the jew.

    He is just another shabbez goy politician who will never dare to tell the real truth or go after the real problem.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    , @Wally
  12. “maybe, like Carl Bernstein, the MSM will come to acknowledge the difference between anti-immigration and anti-mass immigration. Hope springs eternal!”

    Yes the more nuanced, objective and accurate term would be “anti mass immigration” but instead we constantly get “far-right” (just the other day from CNN -where else- we got “Trump fully embraces far right immigration playbook”) from the media. So being the main propaganda arm of the Left I wouldn’t bank on the MSM changing their tune anytime soon.

  13. Che Guava says:

    Tuttle or Buttle?

    If you are nnt knowing the reference, Brazil by Giliam, the better take on Orwell’s 1984 in that year.

    The other, literal one, not bad, Richard Burton’s last great performance, John Hurt’s also very good.

    Gilliam’s Brazil, except for the annoying U.S.A woman truck driver and related scenes, easily the better take on the novel at the time, and still very relevant now.

  14. Beckow says:

    Austria is absolutely essential to the mass-migration issue. It is a primary transit point geographically connecting Europe. Part of the larger Germanic world and also of the central-east and Balkans. Vienna is the main gateway to Europe and has been for 1,000 years. Austrian policies and attitudes are crucial.

    I am not optimistic that the new government can do more than slow down the demographic collapse. There is a mathematical logic to chain migration – and even under the best of circumstances it is very hard to prevent large Third World clans from following and joining their members who were allowed to stay in Austria as ‘migrants’, ‘refugees’, ‘students’, whatever they call themselves.

    Austria already has close to 1 million of them, tens of thousands are still coming. In Vienna they have taken over whole districts and constitute 1/4 of the population. The migrants relentlessly work on bringing in additional family members – through marriages, visits, sponsorships, student visas, or simply by smuggling them in. More restrictive policies mostly just slow it down.

    What Sebastian Kurz and his merry band of enthusiasts are doing is trying to shut the gate after the cattle escaped. The time for Sebastian to do something was in 2015 (or much earlier); he didn’t, he was part of the problem then. He didn’t resign as Austrian socialist premier darkly spoke of ‘Hungarian fascism’ and promoted ‘refugees welcome’ all over media.

    At this point, Austria can go down fast, or go down slowly. But given the numbers involved, and unwillingness to take retroactive tough measures, there will not be much change. A short time-out. But look at the Austrian school population, look at the streets of Vienna, do some basic math, and future is rather clear.

    I wish – I really do – that I am wrong. But I just don’t see it.

  15. In simple terms, Protestant Europe has lost the immigration fight, Catholic Europe has won it. Indeed, having now discovered just how unwelcome they actually are, many refugees are now going home. A few face-saving gestures may well be made in Merkel’s direction but she has effectively committed political suicide. Interesting though is that European politicians have realised that you can’t both anti-immigrant and anti-EU, as witness the immediate profession of support for EU membership by the new government. That topredoes yet another American-funded anti-EU scam. The other point is that we see once again the power of the small EU Member States. In their different ways and in pursuit of their different interests, they all punch above their weight (although it should not be forgotten that the whole point of the EU is to stop Europeans from punching each other at all!). Even Germany, unquestionably the most powerful Member State, cannot simply impose its will on the EU. The problem with AfD is that it isn’t just an “anti-immigrant” party, it’s a far right party and that, for obvious historical reasons, sets off alarm bells in Germany and elsewhere.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  16. @Swedish reader

    Exactly right.

    Moreover, where are the leaders with the balls to call for government policies incentivizing native white citizens to have more children? (Leaving aside the question of why normal, healthy, decent people would need incentives to simply have and raise their own children)

    Unless Austrians and other Europeans boost their TFR from extinction levels like 1.5 to at least the low 2’s, the descendants of Muslims and Africans already in western and central Europe will inevitably take over their countries in the fairly near future anyway.

    Glad this guy won in Austria and hope he achieves much more than the relatively little he has promised. Because not enough Austrians grasp the severity of their plight and the pace of change quite yet.

    Contrary to this author, Western countries need precisely a government opposed to any new nonwhite immigration, especially Muslim or African immigration, not just “mass immigration.” I don’t want my children subjugated to sharia later, or killed, raped, or driven out by Africans later, I don’t want it happening EVER.

    Good move by Austria, but it’s not much so far.

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
  17. @Ilyana_Rozumova

    Reaction is always more powerful than action.

    I agree, I got a medium level concussion at the tender age of 8, the wall which I ran into (head first) remained unimpressed and sustained no injuries.

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
  18. @Michael Kenny

    That assessment is not even arguably correct.

    How has “catholic” France won the immigration fight? It is sinking rapidly into a poor, chaotic, violent, ignorant Muslim and Arab and African morass with no safety and peace for whites, Christians, women, secularists, and anyone else disfavored by the invaders.

    How has “catholic” Italy won the immigration fight? It too is following France into Islamic/African/Arab Hell at a fairly rapid pace.

    And how are demographic, cultural, and crime trends in once-hyperCatholic Spain and Southern Ireland going?

    So, the only two decent-sized countries in Western Europe that were solidly catholic, are surrendering to the invaders and to Islamic oppression. Finally, Germany, with more professed Catholics than protestants, is surrendering as fast as it can.

    In sum, other than Poland, is there any majority or plurality catholic country of meaningful population in Europe – west, central, or anywhere – that MIGHT show signs of conclusively repelling the Muslim and African hordes?

    • Replies: @Beckow
    , @Alden
  19. Beckow says:
    @Peter Akuleyev

    You are right about the FPO – AFD differences, but:

    CSU led CDU/CSU is maybe a better hope for Germany

    I don’t think so. When you have a coalition that includes ‘open border’ Merkelistas in CDU, it will always descend to its lowest common denominator – and that is to keep the mass migration going. Maybe say a few more sensible things, maybe change a few parameters and policies on the margins, but the basic policy would go on. Unless CDU itself reinvents itself – and that means getting rid of the Merkelites – any hope for changed policies is in vain. Even then the unwillingness to be self-critical of what they did would keep any actual changes from happening. Remember that 90%+ of CDU supported Merkel and her team.

    Politically, this is a lot worse than even worst scenarios would predict. Then there is the shrinking left ‘socialist’ spectrum (20% or so) that can always be used to prolong the policies just long enough for them to be truly irreversible. And the ‘liberals’ that can always be turned. It is almost hopeless for Germany – it will be a different country in 10-20 years. The globalists won this one.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
  20. @Heros

    I don’t care whether people with different views on the past are in the party. I care whether the new government excludes nonwhite, especially Muslim and African and Arab migrants / “refugees” / invaders; whether they deport those already in Austria, and whether Austrians starts having children and caring about the survival and safety of their people damn quick.

  21. @Andrei Martyanov

    He He. Good one. Like your way of thinking.
    There are many people on this site who should adopt your way to approach the subject

  22. Wally says: • Website
    @Heros

    Ultimately the truth about the fake ‘holocau$t’ will be addressed. It’s religious narrative is infantile.
    Until the alleged & absurdly impossible ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are openly debated, and it is happening, there will be no real change in Austria or elsewhere. I mean none. I know it, you know it.
    Zionism is obviously evil. Exposing the fact that the essential basis for it’s escaping punishment for it’s massive crimes & twisted influence is based upon easily debunked lies will do wonders. Ultimately there is no other way but to meet The Big Lie head-on.
    As is said:
    There were the ‘Nazis’ with the mythological ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ and there were the ‘Nazis’ without the mythological ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’.
    http://www.codoh.com
    Probing the Holocaust, pt. 1
    https://codoh.com/library/document/4056/?lang=en

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  23. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    We know Germany will stock up on the F-35. The appointment of a leftist, stealth right winger, such as our man Kurz, implies more generosity for NATO – virtuous acts of wealth transfer for death hardware or more eloquently: defense. Now at CATO (not to be confused with NATO) and at the twitter and official orifice of Trump the President, the rote chant has been for the European and their obliging ministers to “to pay up” for protection.

    The Eurofighter kerfluffle of the past year suggests the fight for supremacy boils more furiously underneath of the usual foreign service patsies and their two-bit analysis of the fake shit pile of electoral politics. The wedge of immigration here is added for flavor, it is intended to drive the larger goal, i.e generosity. Guten appetite.

  24. Beckow says:
    @RadicalCenter

    …Czech R, Slovakia and Hungary are holding their own. Although Czech ‘catholicism’ is of a very mild variety.

    Among fallen catholic demographies, there is also Belgium – very catholic.

    The ‘Kenny’ guy writes a lot of incoherent nonsense. He doesn’t understand much.

    It is superficially true that Protestant countries have been worse in the migrant crisis – more submissive, more openly self-destructive. There is an end-of-era quality to Protestant Europe, as if they were busily packing it in and just wanted it all to end. With Catholics there is less absurdity, but an equal amount of obsessive ‘charity’ and self-hatred – check out the latest Pope.

    We are also entering a phase where resistance to open borders and mass migration into Europe is slowly being criminalised. There have always been career and social consequences to those views, but with losing the ideas struggle, the open border fanatics are escalating. They need to remove any resistance from public discourse. When all else fails, there is always the ‘Putin would like that, wouldn’t he?‘ argument to shut down any opposition.

    I think East-Central Europe is being pushed out of EU with the migrant crisis. It is quite ironic, given that those were the most enthusiastic pro-Europeans.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  25. Gruben says:
    @Peter Akuleyev

    No. 10 Peter Akuleyev says that the “FPÖ … is more an organic part of the national fabric “ of Austria. This is not quite true. The party was founded in 1949 by Herbert Kraus under the name of VdU (Verband der Unabhängigen). According to his memoirs (“Untragbare Objektivität“. Politische Erinnerungen 1917 bis 1987. Wien, München 1988) the foundation of the party was an idea of the CIA and the money to found it had been given to Kraus by this service. The program of the new party came also from the US and was to a large extent a translation of the program of the US Republican Party. By creating this new party, the US service wanted to put an end the absolute majority in parliament which the conservative ÖVP had obtained in the 1945 elections. The ÖVP-politicians were considered a bit too independent minded by the US occupation forces in Austria. In the 1945 elections Nazi party members had not been allowed to vote. The VdU was created to represent the interests of the former more than 500.000 Austrian members of the Nazi party and of the approximately 600.000 German speaking refugees who had in 1948 been forced to leave Czechoslovakia and who had just arrived in Austria. In the 1949 elections, the ÖVP, as it had been planned by the US-services , lost their absolute majority. In 1953 Kraus left the VdU which then changed its name to “Freiheitliche Partei Österreichs – FPÖ”, but kept most of the program it had received from the US in 1949. In order to continue to obtain votes from former Nazi party members the FPÖ for many years refused to recognize the existence of an Austrian nation and never showed the Austrian flag during party events. It was only Jörg Haider as chairman of the party after 1986 who started to accept the Austrian flag and stopped the endless discussions about an Austrian nation within the FPÖ.

  26. @Peter Akuleyev

    A CSU led CDU/CSU is maybe a better hope for Germany.

    No, CDU/CSU is irredeemable, they’re traitors and just need to die. And yes, that includes the CSU which is just a giant fraud.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  27. @Beckow

    Thank you for your comment. You’re right about this current “pope.” Jorge Bergoglio and his ilk were “the last straw” for my lifelong affiliation with the RC church.

    Only minor quibble is that I said that no “decent-sized” Catholic European country shows signs of resisting Islamic/African/Arab colonization. Slovakia and Czech Republic are Catholic but, sadly, have insignificant populations.

    Slovakia (one of the lands of my ancestors) has 5.4 million people and a total fertility rate — between 1.34 and 1.48 in the past decade — that indicates a coming death spiral for Slovaks as a people. The number of Slovaks and Hungarians in Slovakia has already started to decline, with only Gypsies apparently increasing (God help Slovakia).

    Czech Repub has 10.6 million people, with TFR increasing in the past decade but only from 1.44 to 1.64.

    • Replies: @Beckow
  28. @German_reader

    Recent events prove you right about the treachery of the CSU. (but I would never say that CSU politicians or supporters “should die” — please be careful)

    While the CSU is the allegedly “more nationalist” and “more right-wing” partner of Merkel’s CDU, it nonetheless agreed to a cap of TWO HUNDRED THOUSAND MORE MIGRANTS EVERY YEAR. That includes family reunification (which should be largely abolished there, as in all our Western countries), but does not include “highly skilled workers.”

    http://www.dw.com/en/germany-refugee-limit-legally-sound-ethically-questionable/a-40878066

    Thus, even if that cap is enacted and actually strictly enforced (ha), the CSU’s “more conservative” plan would see Germany importing at least another two million more migrants, presumably again overwhelmingly Muslim and/or African/Arab, over the next decade alone.

    Add in natural increase of Muslims already living in Germany, and the CSU plan would allow Germany to become fairly rapidly colonized by Islam.

    Any German who wants his people and country to exist in recognizable civilized form in even 20 years, had better get on board with the AfD, at a minimum.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  29. truthman says:

    Wonder what all the Southern European, Polish, Russian, and for that matter even Turkish residents of Germany feel about the most recent arrivals. If you were a reasonably successful second generation Croat, Greek or even a Turk, you can hardly be excited about your neighborhood or city now welcoming in a random grab bag of Afghans, Somalis and Moroccans.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  30. @RadicalCenter

    but I would never say that CSU politicians or supporters “should die”

    I meant they should die as parties, like the DC in Italy (though frankly I wouldn’t be sorry about the death of CDU politicians).
    You’re exactly right, Seehofer’s “upper limit” on refugees of 200 000 a year is a pathetic joke, much too high anyway, and it’s merely for show imo, a “good cop, bad cop” routine to keep voters from defecting to the AfD (Seehofer is a really disgusting character anyway, he committed adultery and was even dumb enough to impregnate his young mistress).
    And during the failed coalition talks the CSU delegation was just as enthusiastic about entering a coalition with the Greens as the CDU…haha, some nice “conservatives”. I hope they’ll be punished at the Bavarian elections next year.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  31. politicians can say and promise alot of things, but what will they do?

    nothing will change. this migrant crisis was engineered for as long as usa has been at war in the middle east since the retarded bush jr.

    • Troll: iffen
    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  32. wayfarer says:
    @Rurik

    Knew a dude. He’d throw a football with this kid, of a single mother. The mom had a cruel boyfriend, who pushed the kid down a flight of stairs one day. Kid broke his arm.

    Won’t go into too many details, but one night the dude wearing a mask, visited the boyfriend. He busted up the boyfriend’s hands, elbows, feet, and knees with a framing hammer. Then quietly walked away, never to be caught.

    Although he did pay the boyfriend a second visit, this time without a mask, and in a hospital while the boyfriend was recovering from his traumatic injuries.

    A bit extreme, but sometimes frontier justice is required.

    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frontier_justice

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @Rurik
  33. Self-righteousness via Self-loathing is the Identity of many whites.

    But what kind of identity is self-loathing-righteousness?

    • Replies: @Miro23
    , @RadicalCenter
  34. Rurik says:
    @wayfarer

    I’m all about that wayfarer, the problem is who gets the treatment?

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/iraqi-refugee-raped-10-year-old-boy-swimming-pool-vienna-austria-sentence-conviction-overturned-a7377491.html

    does the father of this boy go after the rapist, or the judges who overturned the conviction?

    if you could only pick one, who gets the hammer???

    • Replies: @wayfarer
  35. @Astuteobservor II

    oh look the retarded israeli bunched his panties.

    • Troll: iffen
    • Replies: @Anon
  36. wayfarer says:
    @Rurik

    This “dude” was raised by a step-father, an NCO in the marine corps. Who regularly abused him while at the same time, trained him how to fight to the death.

    The dude looked like a choir-boy, but he was lethal like a pitbull. He was eventually convicted of some felony assault, and sent to a maximum security prison, where he did his time.

    A few days into his sentence, he was ridiculed by another prisoner in front of the general prison population. He now had a target, on his back.

    Within the week he stole some canned food from the kitchen where he was working, and acquired several extra pairs of socks. He fashioned a blackjack weapon, and with it ambushed the mouthy prisoner. Who was severely beaten and critically injured. He gave him no quarter.

    From that point on in prison, no one messed with him.

    I’m a survivor of sustained violent child abuse, but at the hands of a psychopathic father. In my case, I simply withdrew from the world, finding it difficult to hold down jobs or interact socially, simply following the path of least resistance as a loner.

    You see how I spend my time on UR, calling out the Zionist tormentors. To me they have a face, and it’s the face of an abuser. I have no sympathy for abusers. None, zero.

    To answer your question. This is how I’d pursue justice in a rape case, if it were personal.

    Initially and anonymously, search for and publish any public, private, or identifying information regarding the crime, the criminal, and the “justice” system. I would do this the old-fashioned way by printing and distributing thousands and thousands of paper flyers. In short, I would dox the mother fu#kers, publically.

    I’d continue this process, for several years if necessary, with the hopes that some form of justice would eventually be served.

    If after several years, the rapist had still not answered for the brutal crime/s. Well then like they say, “revenge is a dish, best served cold.”

    I wrestle with forgiveness, but its probably going to take me many more lifetimes to master the art.

    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @RadicalCenter
    , @Anon
  37. Rurik says:
    @wayfarer

    great post wayfarer

    (love the puppy ; )

    You see how I spend my time on UR, calling out the Zionist tormentors. To me they have a face, and it’s the face of an abuser. I have no sympathy for abusers. None, zero

    perhaps I too am motivated by something deep in my psyche to right wrongs, or as I’m inclined to hope… prevent more of them.

    I’ve studied the events that have shaped our world, and I’ve seen some really sinister villains and netherworld scum in action.

    Human nature at its most demonic.. John Gacy or Ted Bundy have nothing on these guys and gals. Whatever horrors they committed, (and they did commit horrors), it was a Sunday picnic compared to what Churchill, Stalin, FDR and Hitler managed to accomplish. And even these boys were teddy bears compared to the hidden hand behind them all ~ The Rothschild banking cabal and International Zionists, about whom not one in a hundred are even aware.

    So I learned about Dresden, (after being pumped with the ubiquitous propaganda that WWII was “The Good War”), and I learned about the Holodomor, (after being berated with the catechism that only Jews really suffered, and that they were always 100% innocent, whereas their persecutors were always 100% evil), and blah, blah, blah.

    And I realized that everything they were teaching me was agenda-driven lies to mask the crimes and true nature of the fiends who perpetrated that European/Russian catastrophe.

    Then I watched what they did at Waco. And this was further proof that these human fiends really do enjoy burning people, (including [especially Christian] children) alive, if they don’t properly submit to their power.

    Orwell was right!

    The psychopaths who seek power (always for its own sake), lose, (if they ever had it) all semblance of simple human decency. They become cruel and sadistic and monomaniacal. They MUST see their victims submit. They MUST feel that surge of exhilaration at seeing their opponents suffer, and be able to lord it over them.

    let’s be honest, we all know that is how Hillary feels about Donald. And for some of us, just watching her (and her ilk) gnashing in excruciating torment in their infinite frustration – is more than just amusing.

    It’s as if David Koresh was able to walk out of that Texas church, with children in tow, and be hailed by a thunderous applause for humiliating the Clinton regime- with his refusal to submit. And his triumph over her will.

    But alas, David did not walk out, and those children were deliberately burned alive, (to sate an insatiable NEED for petty psychopaths [quintessential bullies] to impose themselves on others).

    I believe that is what motivates most rapists. A NEED to finally, in their otherwise pathetic lives of meaningless daily humiliations, (being abjectly mediocre individuals), to have *their* way [FINALLY!] over somebody.

    Anyways, I’m all over the place with this. But the point is that yes, when you’ve glimmered the nature of the psychopaths that seek power over others, and see what they have wrought in the world to sate their appetites.. at places like Dresden and Waco, Palestine and Fallujah, the Ukraine and the forests of Poland, Libya and Syria and so many myriad crime scenes of unimaginable suffering of innocent (often children) at the hands of demonic human animals drunk on power- (fiends), there’s something I guess that motivates us to wake people up to their intentions and the very real threat that they represent.

    We don’t want to see any more Dresdens or Wacos or Gazas. We know what they’d like to do to us, 😉 and ours.. and we’d simply like to prevent such horrors from being realized on the faces of children, often starved to death slowly, as they’re doing in Yemen right now – in order for some power-crazed fiends to impose their will – in absolute terms- on weaker people.

    nothing new under the sun..

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @wayfarer
    , @Anon
  38. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    For iffen’s reacton to “this migrant crisis was engineered for as long as usa has been at war in the middle east since the retarded bush jr.”
    This a the truth. And iffen is a troll who project on others.

  39. Beckow says:
    @RadicalCenter

    Together the old Czech R and Slovakia have over 15 million people – on a day to day basis they are still very integrated. Languages are very similar – by Western standards they would be dialects, but Slavic grammars are more pervasive.

    That is in my view ‘decent-sized’, or even an optimal size. Once a country goes over 15-20 million, all kinds of pathologies pop up. I think a relatively homogeneous country of 5 to 20 million people is a good place to be. E.g., until its bizarre recent self-destruction Sweden’d 9 million were almost ideal. Or Austria.

    Birth rates are an issue, although the good news is that they have stabilised. It is likely that Central-Eastern populations will remain roughly about the same for the next 1-2 generations, or have very small declines of 5-10%. Given that there was a dramatic, rapid growth in the 20th century (between 1945-90 Czechoslovakia went up by almost a third), that could be ok. What matters is that there are no Third World populations – and will not be unless EU militarily occupies those countries. Romas are a problem, but they have been around for hundreds of years. Their numbers are exaggerated by Western meddlers for political reasons, they are 3-4% of the population with about half fully integrated. Many of the least viable have also moved to UK, Canada or Belgium for welfare.

    Stable populations assure a healthy labor market. A healthy labor market is one where demand and supply are in balance – not the neo-liberal ‘Western’ version of a huge over-supply that forces competition on every level and eventually leads to lower incomes and a downward spiral. That is historically the Asian labor market model that Western neo-liberal overlords imported to the West (and are laughing all the way to the bank together with their tens of millions of imported Third World allies). Having a huge population, or a mass over-supply of labor is terrible. Only crazy globalists have somehow convinced people that it is the only way. EU could be a paradise on earth – for its native people – with about 400 million happy Europeans. I prefer smaller, more manageable societies.

    • Agree: Alden
    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    , @polskijoe
  40. The reason why Western Globalists side with ‘migrants’ on some instinctive level is due to European Imperialist Legacy. European ‘migrant’ colonists arrived on other lands and gradually and then dramatically took over. It’s like the Pilgrims first arrived as ‘refugees’. And British convicts arrived as migrants in Australia and took over. So, newspapers like the Guardian are left-imperialist. They believe any people have the human RIGHT to barge into other nations and colonize it. It is a retro-justification for European imperialism, just like Diversity Cult justifies past imperialism that forced Diversity on the world.

    Using Guardian Left-Imperialist Logic, No people have a right to defend and preserve their nation and culture. All nations must be Tibetanized or Hawaiianized, i.e. invaded and transformed by migrant colonists. (But Israel gets Pass Over privileges.)

    Globalism is Left-Imperialism.

    Australia passes ‘gay marriage’ and welcomes Muslims.

    UK celebrates Jungle(African sexual-savagery) and invites Jihad(of Muslims).

    Diver-psychosis results in strange symptoms.

  41. wayfarer says:
    @Rurik

    I’m on the same page with you Rurik, with all of your points.

    Both political and religious dogma seem to be the two weakest links within civilization’s recorded history.

    But from the depths of humanity’s darkness, light emerges.

    The “channeled” transcripts within this site’s library ( http://www.llresearch.org/ ), have kept me grounded through many dark nights of the soul, and functioned as a guiding light that’s kept me optimistic as I seek truth, in the darkest of times.

    Hopefully these transcripts will resonate with you as well, Rurik.

    To find a transcript on the topic of “good and evil” simply enter, [ good evil site:www.llresearch.org ] into a search engine. Or you can manually search the site’s library.

    Here’s an example transcript as it applies to your previous post. It may or may not “resonate” with you. I’m hoping that it does.

    source: http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/issues/1992/1992_0614.aspx

    Peace, on Earth!

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    , @Rurik
  42. Miro23 says:
    @Priss Factor

    Self-righteousness via Self-loathing is the Identity of many whites.

    But what kind of identity is self-loathing-righteousness.

    We’ve been there before: European Medieval Christian. The more they castigated themselves, the more self-righteous they were. They were born sinners after all, and faced a life of repentance.

    Welcome to the world of hair shirts, vows of silence, celibacy, walking unshod, self flagellation and general zero self worth.

    They did receive dispensation to hunt down heretics, and maybe had some fun with that.

  43. @Wally

    Wally, this is tiresome.

    I am part German, speak some German, and love Germany. Whatever the exact number of people killed in camps by the Nazis, perhaps many fewer than claimed, torture and terror are wrong and were unnecessary.

    Like you, I wish the germans and Austrians would get over the notion that they’re uniquely evil, when most other peoples in the world acquired and/or kept their land by being brutal to other peoples (including the Russians, the Chinese, the Arab Muslims, Africans, the “noble peaceful” Indian tribes in USA and Canada, etc.).

    But there is nothing to be gained by this obsessive focus. Argue that Jews have disproportionate influence in western governments and media and use that influence often to lie, exaggerate, and manipulate us into foolish wars and suicidal immigration policies, for sure. But you lose credibility instantly with almost everyone when you keep hammering on the alleged falsity of the whole nazi program to exterminate Jews. It happened to some degree, and it was evil.

    There was no need to degrade or torture or experiment on people, and no excuse for however much of it occurred. Deportation would have worked for their purposes.

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
  44. @truthman

    Good point that I haven’t heard before.

    As for the Turks, though, I wonder if a fair number of the Turks in Germany would still welcome non-Turkish muslims, to a point, because it moves Germany further and faster towards Islamic control.

  45. @German_reader

    As unlikely as it seems at the moment, it may be that the only way to escape the EU’s surrender to Islamic and African takeover is for Bavaria to leave Germany and the EU.

    Bavaria and Austria could band together with Poland, Hungary, and Czech Republic for common border security and diplomatic unity. Perhaps trade agreements and greatly increased cultural exchange and tourism, as well. (Not having a common currency or otherwise surrendering sovereignty as with the EU.)

    • Replies: @German_reader
    , @Miro23
  46. @wayfarer

    Very sorry to hear what was inflicted on you. Your effort to recover and not to be cruel to others in turn is inspiring.

  47. @Beckow

    Many reasonable points here, as usual, Beckow. But it doesn’t seem like eastern and Central European populations are stabilizing.

    Austria’s population of actual Austrians is declining and set to decline more drastically soon as their number of women of childbearing age declines.

    Same for Slovakia.

    Same for Ukraine, even worse.

    Moreover, smaller societies may be advantageous in some important respects, BUT: the sad fact is that these peoples must have enough of a surplus of youngish men to fight and die — in large numbers, if need be — defending their people, whether against Muslims (someday the Turks, given their location and Turkey’s increasing population and Islamization), Russians, or an as-yet unforeseen enemy.

    Maybe the best is a number of smaller nations, relatively homogeneous genetically and culturally, banded together for defensive purposes but not forcibly united or centrally ruled. Bringing me partly back to your position 😉

    • Replies: @Beckow
  48. @wayfarer

    A beautiful post, Wayfarer, and I’m now “following” you.

    Critical qualifier to your concluding sentiment, though, from the original text: peace on earth TO MEN OF GOODWILL. To other men, not so much — we use any means necessary to defend our people and lands, without compunction.

  49. @RadicalCenter

    Bavaria to leave Germany and the EU.

    You could also add East German states like Thuringia and Saxony to that; I’d be in favour of such secession, the sick parts of Germany in the west and north should be left to rot alone.

  50. Beckow says:
    @RadicalCenter

    With modern weapons it takes a relatively small number of people to defend a country (men and women of all ages can do it). What is required is will power – a simple willingness to use force to protect one’s borders. I also think that both Turkey and Russia are geographically too removed to be a real danger. Turks might eventually become a threat, as they were in the past (1400-1900 – 500 years of Turkish attack on Europe). Russians already controlled the area (1945-90) and during their height of glory never attempted to change the demographics of East-Central Europe. It is hard to imagine that with their own issues, they would try to do it again.

    In Slovakia there are 5.5 million people, Czech R has 10.4 million. The demographics are 97-98% (plus) white Christian. Even worse case scenario would over the next 50 years drop that population to around 14 million, still 97% white Christian. That to me is stability. Good enough.

    The biggest danger that we see are Third World settlers from the Western Europe moving here as EU citizens. There are 50-60 million of them, and they have a legal right to move here. That would create Third World ghettoes (first in a few large cities), and that would bring people directly from the Third World (with their family ‘reunification’ schemes). This is the scenario that happened in UK, France, later in Austria, Germany. This is the real danger and if EU collapses that will be the reason.

    • Replies: @Anon
  51. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Beckow

    “That would create Third World ghettoes (first in a few large cities), and that would bring people directly from the Third World (with their family ‘reunification’ schemes).”
    — Only if the governments will be foolish enough to provide generous welfare for the black newcomers; otherwise, East Europe will be safe. For instance, the migrants do not want to reside in the impoverished Baltic States.

    • Replies: @Beckow
  52. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    http://v4report.com/index.php/2017/07/13/migrants-leaving-baltic-states-sugar-daddy-germany/
    “The migrants are leaving Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania. Of course, the BBC says the migrants are “frustrated and trapped in chilly Baltic states”. In other words, Germany is offering more money.”

  53. @RadicalCenter

    Addendum.

    Deportation…………………………

    Actually Hitler before started to put Jews into cams called the conference of leaders and did notify them that he want the Jews to emigrate. All countries were willing to help.
    When Jews were collected conference was called again. US agreed to take 20000. All others did not want to take one.

  54. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @wayfarer

    Forgive me for inserting myself in this conversation, but your post made me remember this bit of wisdom, taught to me by an old man experienced in helping suffering souls:

    @ I wrestle with forgiveness

    Forgiveness is not a feeling or something that happens to you. Forgiving is a conscious act of the will. (You can first do a long letter and burn it, as therapists say). The feelings will come back, will recur, like waves. But you and your feelings are not the same thing. When this happens, you remind yourself “Wayfarer, remember that this, this you have already forgiven.”

    We are all pilgrims in this life, yet our goal is transcendent.

    • Replies: @wayfarer
  55. Miro23 says:
    @RadicalCenter

    As unlikely as it seems at the moment, it may be that the only way to escape the EU’s surrender to Islamic and African takeover is for Bavaria to leave Germany and the EU.

    Bavaria and Austria could band together with Poland, Hungary, and Czech Republic for common border security and diplomatic unity. Perhaps trade agreements and greatly increased cultural exchange and tourism, as well. (Not having a common currency or otherwise surrendering sovereignty as with the EU.)

    There’s something in this. It’s an imaginable Central European entity possibly including Northern Italy, Slovakia, Croatia and Western Ukraine.

  56. wayfarer says:
    @Anon

    Forgive me for inserting myself in this conversation, but your post made me remember this bit of wisdom, taught to me by an old man experienced in helping suffering souls:

    @ I wrestle with forgiveness

    Forgiveness is not a feeling or something that happens to you. Forgiving is a conscious act of the will. (You can first do a long letter and burn it, as therapists say). The feelings will come back, will recur, like waves. But you and your feelings are not the same thing. When this happens, you remind yourself “wayfarer, remember that this, this you have already forgiven.”

    We are all pilgrims in this life, yet our goal is transcendent.

    Damn, that was helpful.

    I immediately experimented with it.

    I choose to consciously/willfully forgive my father, a very brutal man.

    Memories of him began surfacing, as a broken soul who’d suffered a massive stroke, living out the last chapter of his life, as a cripple. Struggling for the next ten years until the day he died, alone and among society’s destitute.

    He was born destitute, and died destitute.

    Tears began flowing. I finally forgive the poor man. I’ve found a part of me, deep inside, that loved him. After all these years.

    Whoever you are, thank you so much.

    There’s going to be lots of tears, in the days and years to come.

    I’m sending my father this song. For no other reason than it’s a peaceful song.

    As I hope he’s now resting somewhere, in peace.

    …..

  57. Rurik says:
    @wayfarer

    thank you for your thoughtful reply (as usual) Wayfarer,

    Both political and religious dogma seem to be the two weakest links within civilization’s recorded history.

    yes, and particularly when they are used as a proxy for thinking for oneself, imho.

    children are raised not to think for themselves. They’re even discouraged from thinking period. They’re given mental tasks to perform without explaining the purpose, ‘just do it’ and memorize all of this, or calculate all of that’, and they learn to abhor ‘thinking’. By design.

    Thinking requires we question everything, and doubt everything, and wonder at everything. It’s at its best when we’re focused on understanding something for ourselves. Not because we’re told that ‘this is what to think’, which is, as you mention, what modern politics and religion do. They tell people ‘this is what to think’, and so for a public that’s been programed not to think since childhood, and to accept and to parrot the dogmas of their elders, it’s simply easier to learn the catechisms which negate the necessity of thinking and deciding for oneself what is true or not.

    I’m not denigrating religion per se, and certainly not religious people. We all are spiritual in our own way, even as the link you posted shows. It’s just unfortunate that the big religions (and political parties) are so vulnerable to charlatans and scoundrels as a means of controlling what people ‘think’, and controlling their opinions and deeply-held beliefs and most of all, their purse strings and lives and welfare of their children.

    teaching your children to have a religious type of fealty to any dogma is weaponizing them as soldiers to whatever demagogue manages to wield the bullhorn on the pulpit.

    if they don’t question everything, then they’re potential victims to anyone who’s charismatic or ‘authoritative’ or both.

    Political parties and religions serve an important purpose in society. In many ways they’re necessary. People need to believe in something higher than themselves, (as your link shows), and religion fills many people with something beautiful and sublime, depending on that person’s character and the message itself. Christ’s message of love and forgiveness being high on that list, if you ask me.

    But when abused (all too often) by the dark side (power-crazed psychopaths), Christ’s message can be twisted into a pretext to hate and murder. Or a weapon of your society’s enemies in order to get you to let down your guard, and trust in the Lord, as your nation is ravaged by enemies. Too often Christians take the exhortation to ‘turn the other cheek’, literally, and allow their enemies to harm them, even to the point of invasion and wholesale rape. (Sweden)

    So yea, I’m not a big fan of organized religion or fealty to a political party. The closest I’ve ever got to a ‘cult of personality’ type of crusader was when Ron Paul was running for president, and I went to rallies and friends and family were rolling their eyes and saying ‘enough already with the Ron Paul stuff!’ But I did ‘convert’ a lot of people to what I saw was a small hope for this world to repudiate wars (and the war pigs who wage them), and return this powerful nation to a humble foreign policy and domestic sanity.

    and now here I am ranting again.. 😉

    transcripts will resonate with you

    I’ve perused it some, and will no doubt do so again..

    lots of beautiful stuff there

    one thing on skepticism.. (as I’ve been guilty of it all my life)

    I know a (very smart) guy, former military then commercial pilot. And he’s quite clued into many rather esoteric and academic disciplines and knowledge. Chatting with him is a privilege of sorts, as he also has a great sense of humor. Anyways, one of the things he’s always been on about, even if in a sort of dismissive way.. is aliens. (not Jose and Maria, but Area 51 types). He’s said that he’s seen things, even when he was a young pilot, for which there are no other explanations. I always used to put this down to a quirk of his convoluted mind, and how it wanders everywhere, to the distant stars and back to the mysterious inner soul. Never really being willing to ‘go there’ myself.

    then I saw a video

    some sort of orb-like anomaly flies by and the Israeli satellite explodes on the launch pad.

    I’ve watched that video many, many times, and I don’t think it’s a fake, and I can not explain what that strange sphere is, unless it’s a kind of technology we’re simply not familiar with.

    what manner of ordnance was on that Israeli satellite?

    Now I’m wondering what really happened to the Challenger space shuttle, as it also had an Israeli scientist on board, going up to do experiments.

    anyways, my mind is more open than it’s ever been, even with all my skepticism

    thanks Wayfarer for the links and for your insightful authenticity

    whatever else can be said of religion or spirituality, true forgiveness is perhaps as close to God as we’ll ever experience. And not for those who’ve wronged us or ours, but for us who can forgive.. as it frees the heart of bitterness, and opens us up to more wonders and opportunities to fill our souls with grace.

    sorry if that sounds preachy, Didn’t mean for it to.

    • Replies: @wayfarer
    , @Alden
  58. polskijoe says:
    @Beckow

    Regarding fertility rates all of Europe has a problem.
    The average rate is 1.5 only for white Europeans.

    In Central and East Europe the fertility rates are 1.3 or 1.4.
    It will take a lot of work to fix this. Improving by economic means, less contraceptives, some kind of tests on chemicals and then removing them, etc.

    Really it needs to be raised to 2 child minimum for Europe. In countries like Poland and Ukraine they can go for 2.5 children. and Russia with its massive land area can go for 3.
    Its unlikely but it would give power.

    Check the UN and/or EU projections for population 2030, 2050.
    Our population will go down heavily. From Czechia to Russia to Serbia and Bulgaria. While the Western and North Europe import
    tons just to keep their population slightly rising.

  59. @denk

    Ron! Ron! Are you listening? You should consider getting Michael Springmann to contribute to UR. Never reached the same heights in government as the mad P C Roberts did but sounds sane and his fitting together of unlikely pieces (George Soros and the destruction of many countries by migration e.g.) is delivered calmly and reasonably. He can even sound reasonable when speculating on the sponsorship of 9/11 unlike the obsessors about WTC7 and whether a plane hit the Pentagon. But….. but….. No mention of Israel. It is hard to see America being as focused and Machievellian as Israel might be in keeping Europe weak and unfocused. May I suggest that you invite him to write an article as a notional response to someone who suggests that his views in “Goodbye Europe! Hello Chaos! Merkel’s Migrant Bomb” and maybe “Visas for Al Qaeda” don’t fully cohere without examining Israel’s perceived interests and policies and how these might have influenced American actions and policy.

  60. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Rurik

    You seem to know a lot about rapists and sadists. I stand in awe. I hope it is merely that you have a greatly superior imagination to mine.

    • Replies: @wayfarer
    , @Rurik
  61. wayfarer says:
    @Rurik

    Enjoyed your thought provoking reply, Rurik.

    I’m on the same frequency with many of your points.

    I intend to followup in more detail. My response/s will be arriving, piecemeal and in small bytes. Either within this article or within another, where you are engaged.

    In that case, the replies may appear to be somewhat out-of-context. As there are some things I’d like to share with you, but unfortunately don’t have the time to go into detail at this moment.

    Expect some off-the-wall and out-of-context replies. Hopefully I won’t be sited for breaking any of UR’s terms and conditions.

    Happy Holidays, Rurik.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  62. wayfarer says:
    @Anon

    Here’s your daily ration, of truth.

    Sweden Now Rape Capital of Europe Thanks to Muslim Migrants!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-qDcPneLM4

  63. Rurik says:
    @Anon

    rapists and sadists. I stand in awe.

    you should kneel in awe

    there’s a reason I’m here

    I do have other things I could (and should be doing ; ), but there’s something in me, (and I suspect Wayfarer and others too) that needs to oppose the forces of darkness- that all too often envelope the world in suffering and misery for the profit and amusement of evil men.

    Rudyard Kipling knew what I’m talking about, when he wrote these words in memory of his son, killed in a sadistic war contrived by evil men for their personal profits and amusement

    “If any question why we died.. Tell them, because our fathers lied”

    he felt pain at the loss of his son, and the tragedy of so many sons who died so pointlessly, with mustard gas in their lungs or flesh ripped from their bodies, and frozen in the mud..

    all for the vainglory of evil and petty men

    it’s true that I abhor cruelty and suffering, especially when it’s gratuitous and even more so when it’s deliberately dished out to innocents by fiends

    and I write in opposition to such things. I am, perhaps in a word, the anti-John McCain

    I stand in opposition to everything that man has represented his entire career, from treason to murder to corruption and crimes against humanity writ large.

    and yes, I also despise rapists. (not a deplorable who holds the door for a feminist. Not that kind of “rape”), but the kind of rapist that does not see or care about the humanity of the person who he violates- and imposes himself upon, always because he’s a sub-human loser and pathetic dreg.

    if he’s cruel too, then get out the marshmallows and hotdogs and let’s have a party!

    I wish it was only in my imagination that men can be (and often are) sadistic rapists (and mass-murdering war criminals).

    sometimes, beyond comprehension

    perhaps in order to determine what a man stands for; (individual human dignity ; ) you only need to see what he stands against 😉

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  64. Rurik says:
    @wayfarer

    thanks Wayfarer,

    I look forward to our continuing correspondence.

    Hopefully I won’t be sited for breaking any of UR’s terms and conditions.

    I doubt that. Mr Unz gives us all a long leash, it seems. (thank you for that sir)

    also please check out his latest marvel:

    http://www.unz.com/video/

    and a very Merry Christmas to you Wayfarer!

    • Replies: @wayfarer
  65. Alden says:
    @RadicalCenter

    I wondered about that too. France is no more a Catholic country than is Sweden or the United States. The church was pretty much destroyed twice; once in the 1790s and again in 1905.

    France has had a public policy of laicisme for more than 200 years. Laicisme goes far beyond desperation of church and state, it is actively anti religious. Laicisme translates to anti clericalism in English.

    Every once in a while there is a story about some Italian neighborhood watch group drives some gypsies or immigrant thugs out of the neighborhood without being arrested and charged with hate crime.

    But I doubt that has anything to do with the majority religion of the country.

    And Germany is not a Protestant country. West Germany was always about half catholic half Lutheran. East Germany was Lutheran. But 50 years of communist Russian occupation turned the E Germans non religious.

    The only majority catholic country that is actively fighting Muslim African immigration is Poland. The rest of the E European countries fighting Muslim African immigration are a mix of orthodox, protest and and catholic.

    The E European resistance to African Muslim immigration has more to do with scarce resources than religion or culture.

    I can’t see how the different versions of Christianity has anything to do with a population’s reaction to African Muslim immigration.

    It’s 2017, not 1517.

    • Agree: polskijoe
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  66. Alden says:
    @Rurik

    There are a lot of UFO documentaries on TV. Most focus on the testimony of Air Force, navy and commercial pilots who have seen strange things in the skies that appear to be some kind of space ships.

    I’m somewhat of a believer because of the testimonies of those experienced pilots.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  67. Beckow says:
    @Anon

    “Only if the governments will be foolish enough to provide generous welfare for the black newcomers”

    No, that is a fallacy. First of all, it is literally impossible not to provide minimal ‘welfare’ once the migrants are allowed in. They can’t live on the street, and society cannot let them starve, or not have minimal health care. In a modern society that is a given.

    Your fantasy about ‘cut welfare, they won’t come’ is an ideological dead-end. The uber-capitalist ‘self-reliance’ nonsense is how we got into this mess in the first place. It is easily manipulated. One more time: cutting welfare might slow it down, but it is not the solution. The solution is to not allow them in – to control the borders. And they will come, welfare, no welfare, they will come because anything is better than the Third World hell-holes they are trying to leave…

  68. @Alden

    How do you explain the vigour of Catholicism in Poland relative to the waning of Christian belief in East Germany? A couple of factors I can think of… 1. The Poles treating Catholicism as a valuable defence, not only against Communism but against the Russisns; 2. The Germans in 1945 being more modern and advanced towards atheist or agnostic secularism?? And what about the Polish-Jewish relationship. There had been far more professional class and educated Jews in Poland at least proportionately and so, maybe, Catholicism was part of the defence however unnneeded after the Holicaust. What do you think?

  69. @Rurik

    “to determine what a man stands for you pnly need to see what a man stands against”. While rolling this round in the cynical depths of my critical mind to see if some new homespun wisdom had emerged or only a modified cliché it crossed my mind that “Those who are not for (with) me are against me” harbours interesting logic. It really is a case of logic and facts being at odds. Thus I am not for you so I am against you. But I haven’t heard of you so I can’t be against you. And if I am not against you I can’t be “not for” you. Thus I must be for you (= not not for you). All of which reminds us that such rhetoric is a dubious contribution to cerebration. George W’s use of it meant “if you don’t support us count yourself as an enemy”.

    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @Rurik
  70. wayfarer says:
    @Rurik

    Rurik, you asked about ET’s.

    Well here’s a transcript of a channeling session between a “human instrument” and an ET “principle” known as “Q’uo.”

    This particular transcript provides the ET principle’s view of Jesus the Christ, at this time of our winter solstice and the Christmas holiday season.

    If nothing else it offers some insight for an individual like yourself who is seeking answers to questions, solutions to problems, and greater truths.

    Merry Christmas!

    source: http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/issues/2010/2010_1218.aspx

    • Replies: @Rurik
  71. Rurik says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Hello Wiz,

    Perhaps it is appropriate that I offer my sentiments as a reply to you on this day.

    Let me just say to you, and to all of the people here at Unz, with whom I’ve enjoyed so much banter, and from whom I’ve learned so much, my sincere wish for you all to have a very merry Christmas

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=14&v=bHy8xzqUmaw

    Merry Christmas to you all !

    (even you Wiz ; )

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  72. @Rurik

    And a happy Saturnalia to you!

    Your link was administered by a poltergeist and I was told that copyright restrictions prevented me seeing it in my country.

  73. Rurik says:
    @Alden

    I’m somewhat of a believer because of the testimonies of those experienced pilots.

    the video of that satellite and the “coincidence” of that thing flying by just as it exploded has put chinks in my cynicism.

    I used to figure if there were intelligent beings capable of that kind of technology, what they hell would they want with us, except as a kind of curiosity of sort. Like a child with an ant farm.

    -but then that thing flies by-

    maybe it was ‘ours’, but if so, I’d still like to know what kind of weapon was being sent up.

    already Israel brags about assassinating people it doesn’t like regardless of nationality or threat, and no one seems to raise their head from their cud-chewing to denounce such things

    they do whatever they want to, and the rest of the world gapes in slacked-jawed, bovine wonder

    Perhaps it’s just wishful thinking on my part that at least aliens will protect humankind from their doomsday hatred

  74. Rurik says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    “to determine what a man stands for you pnly need to see what a man stands against”.

    here, I corrected the quote. (please in the future wiz, if you’re going to quote me, then don’t try to write it, and fuck up the spelling, but just copy / paste, [I’ll provide sufficient errors in grammar, etc.. on my own])

    Rurik:

    perhaps in order to determine what a man stands for; (individual human dignity ; ) you only need to see what he stands against 😉

    wiz’s (apparent) interpretation of that adage:

    “Those who are not for (with) me are against me”

    It really is a case of logic and facts being at odds. Thus I am not for you so I am against you.

    no wiz

    if a man is for peace, that is not a mutually exclusive position to take, which implies that everyone who doesn’t get behind him is somehow for war, or against him. Someone else can be for war, and they’re welcome to make their augments.

    what Bush did, (and you’re erroneously equating), was to tell the world that they didn’t have a choice, or that it was a Hobbesian choice of joining the ‘collation of the “willing” for war, or find yourself on the losing side of that war.

    and when he said, ‘you’re either with us or against us’, what he did was demonstrate the exact kind of hegemonic belligerence that I repudiate when I wrote:

    “perhaps in order to determine what a man stands for; (individual human dignity ; ) you only need to see what he stands against”

  75. On the other hand. there is also another aspect to the emigration, that nobody cares to analyze it.
    The essence here is that the banks control the population through the mortgages.
    What would happen if population would decline?
    Demand for houses would decline.
    Prices for houses would decline.
    What effect it would have on banks?

  76. jack ryan says: • Website

    I encourage Austria and all remaining “European” European countries and communities pass laws that restrict Islamists that are not explicitly anti Islam – things like:

    All signs have to be in the national language (German for Austria and Germany, German, Italian, French for Switzerland etc). English is prohibited in business.

    Find ten thousand ways to mess with Afghan, Algerian Sub Sahara Black Africans – not flushing a toilet is a 2 year prison sentence etc

  77. jack ryan says: • Website
    @mikael

    “but I will never accuse Islam, never, because Islam is an peaceful religion, period.”

    I respond:

    Here’s hoping the “religion of peace” beheads you and yours.

    The worst anti White Ashkenazi all support the mass Islamic invasion of Europe/the West.

    The Chosen were expelled from Spain or put under the Spanish Inquisition in 1492 for taking the Arab Muslim side against White Catholics, for being tax collectors for the Muslims and for selling White girls in to sexual slavery to nasty Muslim men – the Chosen have always been heading up White slavery and the hard core porn business now.

    It’s 2 different enemies. Only a complete fool/liar like you doesn’t want to make the invading, raping, suiting bombing Islamists the #1 Enemy.

Current Commenter
says:

Leave a Reply - Comments on articles more than two weeks old will be judged much more strictly on quality and tone


 Remember My InformationWhy?
 Email Replies to my Comment
Submitted comments become the property of The Unz Review and may be republished elsewhere at the sole discretion of the latter
Subscribe to This Comment Thread via RSS Subscribe to All Gene Tuttle Comments via RSS
PastClassics
The “war hero” candidate buried information about POWs left behind in Vietnam.
What Was John McCain's True Wartime Record in Vietnam?