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Could Roy Moore be to DACA What Dave Brat Was to Gang of Eight Amnesty/ Immigration Surge?
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President Trump has just reiterated his support for embattled Alabama Senate candidate Roy Moore despite express instructions from the Main Stream Media and the Republican Establishment. [Republican Senators worried about Roy Moore’s impact as Trump continues support, by Terence Cullen, New York Daily News, November 26, 2017]There is obviously renewed concern MSM/ GOP Establishment concern that Moore (and Trump) might win [The Latest Poll Numbers: Roy Moore Reclaims the Lead from Doug Jones – Maybe, by Peter Schwartz , Huffington Post, November 24 2017]. A Moore victory could be as decisive in killing the threatened Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) Amnesty as Dave Brat’s 2014 upset was in killing the Gang Of Eight’s Amnesty/ Immigration Surge—and its long-term implications could be even greater.

Fresh off the failure to repeal Obamacare, the GOP Congressional Leadership and President Trump are trying desperately to get people to care about tax reform. But the GOP, despite controlling both legislative chambers and the White House, may not be able to pass a budget because it needs sixty votes to avoid a government shutdown. Some Democrats, who have made Open Borders the defining issue of their party, will not sign any bill unless there is an extension of the DACA. Possible presidential candidates like California Senator Kamala Harris are among those grandstanding on the issue. [Harris calls for Congress to pass ‘clean’ DACA bill, by Julia Manchester, The Hill, October 12, 2017]

But there are also signs of Democratic weakness. They want to avoid receiving the blame for a government shutdown. For that reason, the Democrat leadership has been “encouraging their members their members to hold off on nuclear rhetoric for now.” Even the most militant members, reports Politico, are hesitant to commit to a government shutdown if they don’t get their way on DACA. [Congress speeds toward shutdown over Dreamers, by Rachael Bade and Heather Caygle, November 21, 2017]

President Trump gave Congress until March to come up with a solution on DACA. But needless to say, the Stupid Party is filled with far more disturbance and division than the Evil Party. So some Republicans are pushing granting legislative Amnesty to DACA recipients even with nothing in exchange from the Democrats.

For example, Florida GOP Congressman Mario Diaz-Balart, whom only a cynic can describe as an “American” in any meaningful sense, wants DACA immediately. And Michael McCaul of Texas, who has consistently pushed for weak immigration policies throughout his career, thinks a vote on DACA this year would be the “ideal scenario”. [Congress barreling toward explosive immigration fight, by Mike Lillis, The Hill, November 21, 2017]

But there are other, patriot GOP voices. Oklahoma Senator Tom Cotton wants to stop DACA cold.

Meanwhile, Senator Leader Mitchell McConnell believes there is room for a compromise. According to Newsweek,

In exchange for a DACA fix, conservatives want to boost border security, curb “chain migration” and force companies to set up e-verification systems to check that their workers are in the United States legally.

But even these common-sense measures are things “most Democrats would oppose” [Will the government shut down in December over immigration reform? By Linley Sanders, November 23, 2017].

Ultimately, this battle over immigration in Congress will be a contest of political will. And both sides will be looking to current political races to judge the relative strength and weakness of Right and Left. Today, there is only one political race that matters: Judge Roy Moore vs. Democrat Doug Jones.

Moore is still trailing in the RealClearPolitics average of polls and given the likelihood of more Democrat turnout than usual in an off-year election, the danger he could lose is real [Is Roy Moore Losing? By Harry Enten, FiveThirtyEight, November 22, 2017]. He’s been damaged by the over-hyped accusations of sexual impropriety four decades ago, but not crippled. The national party has distanced itself from Moore, but this can perhaps best understood in the context of the Establishment’s extraordinary decision to spend $30 million in a vain effort to defeat Moore in the primary: they hate him. [What is the danger that Roy Moore poses to the Senate GOP? By Elfego Baca , American Spectator, November 22, 2017]

Senate Majority leader Mitch McConnell claims to be worried that Moore will drag down the Republican brand in 2018. However, the real drag on the GOP is the insistence by both President Trump and the GOP Leadership to push policies that reward “their donor and executive class” instead of championing the populist policies that put Trump in the White House [Whatever Happened To Trump’s Populist Agenda? By Henry Olsen, New York Times, November 20, 2017]. New York Times, November 20, 2017]. As Olsen accurately notes:

The traditional Republican policy agenda is a political zombie, a relic that once served our nation well but is out of touch with what Americans want today.

Even in Roy Moore had dropped out of the race, the Republicans would still be facing an uphill battle in 2018 because of the Stupid Party’s sociopathic insistence on ignoring the voters who delivered the most unlikely political upset in history. It needs a shock to the system. And while President Trump could have saved himself a great deal of trouble in Alabama by backing immigration patriot Rep. Mo Brooks instead of Establishment appointee Luther Strange, a Moore victory in the teeth of united Main Stream Media opposition will be far more devastating to Democrats than Luther Strange or even Mo Brooks cruising to an easy victory.

For Moore is, above all, a direct challenge to the entire political and cultural System. Roy Moore’s campaign has officially designated The Washington Post a “worthless piece of crap,” which is a good reason in itself to support Moore [Roy Moore Campaign: ‘The Washington Post Is A Worthless Piece Of Crap,’ by Jeff Poor, Breitbart, November 22, 2017]. The MSM has so blown its credibility with conservatives that the possibility Alabama voters might elect Moore out of sheer spite is being seriously discussed [Want to know why Roy Moore might win? Blame the media, by Matt Latimer, Politico, November 25, 2017]. On current form, in the aftermath of a Moore victory the MSM will likely grow even more antagonistic to Republicans—which will make grassroots Americans tune them out even more.

As for substance, immigration is an issue which Moore is seizing on to recapture momentum in the race.

In the past, Moore has hardly covered himself in glory on the issue. During the primary, he didn’t appear to know what DACA was [Roy Moore, leading candidate in Alabama Senate race, doesn’t know what DACA is, by Philip Wegmann, Washington Examiner, September 1, 2017].

However, today is slamming Jones not just for supporting DACA, but for Jones’s opposition to President Trump’s proposed border wall [‘Mexico First’: Roy Moore slams Doug Jones on amnesty, border, by Ian Mason, Breitbart, November 21, 2017].

Jones’s defensiveness on the issue is indicated by the lack of any mention of immigration on his campaign website. Jones also sounds incoherent when trying to explain his Open Borders policies. His opposition to Trump’s signature border wall for example, is because it is “too expensive” [Alabama Democrat Doug Jones denies being an ‘ultra-liberal,’ says he opposes Trump’s border wall, by Alex Pappas, Fox News, November 19, 2017].

Indeed, as Jones’s media backers admit, the Democrat’s best bet in Alabama is to try to back away from the party while quietly encouraging large African-American turnout and guilting Republicans into staying home [The Best Chance To Defeat Roy Moore May Be For The Democratic Party To Lie Low, by Amanda Terkel, Huffington Post, November 24, 2017].

Moore’s best counter, of course, is to energize the GOP’s white base in Alabama by appealing to immigration, which Moore is now trying to do with proposals like using the military on the border [Excusive – Roy Moore: Deploy Military To Fortify U.S.-Mexico Border, by Aaron Klein, Breitbart, November 20, 2017].

Politics is war, and war is about breaking the will of the enemy to fight. David Brat’s victory over Eric Cantor was credited by many mainstream outlets with killing Amnesty [Cantor loss kills immigration reform, by Seung Min Kim, Politico, June 10, 2014]. The unexpectedly competitive race in Alabama is a danger, but also an opportunity.

If Moore is defeated, the spooked GOP will most likely try to pass a bipartisan immigration betrayal which is what McConnell and Ryan have wanted to do all along. But if Moore can survive, the power of the Main Stream Media—and the GOP Establishment—may be definitively broken. The immigration issue will have proven its ability to propel candidates to best scandal and GOP resistance to DACA will be strengthened.

And the shock will be so great that maybe the Republican Party, and President Trump, can start acting on the populist program that put them in office.

James Kirkpatrick [Email him] is a Beltway veteran and a refugee from Conservatism Inc.

(Republished from VDare by permission of author or representative)
 
• Category: Ideology • Tags: DACA, Donald Trump, Immigration, Roy Moore 
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  1. Jeff Sessions shouldn’t have accepted a post in Trump’s cabinet.

    He should have stayed in the senate as an independent advocate for the America First agenda.

    That way, he could truthfully say that Donald Trump owed him, but not vice versa. It would have been a stronger position from which to fight the Kushner/globalist wing of the Trump administration.

    It is also unfortunate that Mo Brooks didn’t win the Republican senatorial primary. Brooks has a long, solid record on National Question issues such as immigration restriction, non-interventionist foreign policy and populist economics, in addition to being a solid social conservative.

    Roy Moore is improving on National Question issues under the pressure of globalist attacks, but the race wouldn’t be this close is he had been making nationalism his main theme from the very beginning. Uber-nationalist Jeff Sessions won with more than 97% of the vote in the last general election. Roy Moore lazily assumed the old 1980s Ronald Reagan talking points (abortion etc.) would be enough – and it cost him.

    This is an important lesson for all insurgent Republicans. Social conservatism on issues like abortion, gay marriage, and public displays of Christianity may be enough to win a Republican primary, but they are not enough to win a general election – not even in Alabama. Nationalism is absolutely essential.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
    "Jeff Sessions shouldn’t have accepted a post in Trump’s cabinet."

    I agree. While we're playing "shoulda", Trump "shoulda never" offered the position to Sessions. Doing so showed that Trump either didn't know anything about Sessions, or that he intended to protect Clinton and the other Obama team members from prosecution.

    Failing to fire Comey on the afternoon of the inaugural pretty well tipped Trump's hand in that regard, anyway.

    , @Sam J.
    “...Jeff Sessions shouldn’t have accepted a post in Trump’s cabinet...”

    I disagree with this but for different reasons. I was a huge Sessions fan. I thought he was a major solid guy but his inaction when we know there has been massive corruption, illegal wiretapping, influence peddling, play for play, and on and on. These are just some of the laws broken that we can see in the open. I believe there are much more serious things that we don't have public evidence for. And Sessions has done...nothing. Now maybe he's building a case but to do so he should have been arresting some of the smaller players by now to catch the big fish so I assume he's doing nothing. I can make no other assumption based on his actions that he's been compromised in some way. It's also likely that Trump has been too. He's a million times better than Hillary but the basic ongoing denigration of our country continues. People are still being killed in mass shootings, (Vegas) where you can hear two shooters yet the government swears up and down there's only one. Why does he let this go on? What we need is more Roy Moore's. I don't care if they're even that competent. They just need to not be compromised. I don't think Mo Brooks would have been better. If the establishment is for them then they must be compromised. It's just like famous actresses and singers that have long dealings with Harvey Weinstein. They may not be whores but that's the way to bet.
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  2. “Social conservatism on issues like abortion, gay marriage, and public displays of Christianity” — Kirkpatrick

    “Issues like abortion” — that states a problem right there. Because if social conservative candidates must toe the ‘pro-life’ line and the pro-life line in turn must adhere to the RC religious fringe — it comes down to that legalizing the morning-after pill is condoning abortion, which can be categorized as murder. I believe that when the Pope visited the Philippines, he refrained from criticizing all or any forms of birth control … in what is maybe the most RC country in today’s world, a country that had recently legalized such things as the morning-after pill.

    And why would that be? Why would the Pope himself be avoiding such issues … could it have something to do with the reality that the Philippines has become an SRO country?

    This doesn’t affect me personally, since I am well past the age of sexual activity, but I do note that the population of USA has tripled in my lifetime. So yes, “reproduction” (as we coolly and objectively call it) is an ethical issue, but it is also, like war, a political issue.

    All out for opposition to so-called same-sex marriage. All out for the Christmas creche in the public park in the center of town! May it be covered with snow on Christmas Eve! All out for the cross erected by veterans somewhere in Virginia, as described by Pat Buchanan recently.

    But all out for pro-life radicals? Not so much.

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  3. Roy Moore’s campaign has officially designated The Washington Post a “worthless piece of crap,” which is a good reason in itself to support Moore.

    That’s all I need to know about Judge Moore. I’m a card carrying deplorable. Irredeemable. The Washington Post, it’s owner and the scum it represents, are my enemies.

    Read More
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  4. @John Gruskos
    Jeff Sessions shouldn't have accepted a post in Trump's cabinet.

    He should have stayed in the senate as an independent advocate for the America First agenda.

    That way, he could truthfully say that Donald Trump owed him, but not vice versa. It would have been a stronger position from which to fight the Kushner/globalist wing of the Trump administration.

    It is also unfortunate that Mo Brooks didn't win the Republican senatorial primary. Brooks has a long, solid record on National Question issues such as immigration restriction, non-interventionist foreign policy and populist economics, in addition to being a solid social conservative.

    Roy Moore is improving on National Question issues under the pressure of globalist attacks, but the race wouldn't be this close is he had been making nationalism his main theme from the very beginning. Uber-nationalist Jeff Sessions won with more than 97% of the vote in the last general election. Roy Moore lazily assumed the old 1980s Ronald Reagan talking points (abortion etc.) would be enough - and it cost him.

    This is an important lesson for all insurgent Republicans. Social conservatism on issues like abortion, gay marriage, and public displays of Christianity may be enough to win a Republican primary, but they are not enough to win a general election - not even in Alabama. Nationalism is absolutely essential.

    “Jeff Sessions shouldn’t have accepted a post in Trump’s cabinet.”

    I agree. While we’re playing “shoulda”, Trump “shoulda never” offered the position to Sessions. Doing so showed that Trump either didn’t know anything about Sessions, or that he intended to protect Clinton and the other Obama team members from prosecution.

    Failing to fire Comey on the afternoon of the inaugural pretty well tipped Trump’s hand in that regard, anyway.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wj
    We lost a solid man in the senate with the Sessions appointment. Cotton is another solid guy on illegal immigration and his name is being tossed around for the CIA. Not good. He is from Arkansas, not Oklahoma. Ok has the senile Inhofe and the worsening by the day, James Lankford.
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  5. James Kirkpatrick writes another concise, penetrating, and information-packed analysis that hits the target precisely. Well done!

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  6. Multiculturalism should be called Multi-Colonialism.

    It means your nation must be colonized by multitudes of foreigners who eventually delegitimatize and displace you.

    Also, multi-colonialism never ends. It keeps growing and growing like a cancer. It has no sense of limits, just like cancer has no sense of limits.

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  7. WHAT says:

    Roy just needs to punch a reporter from some libshit rag now to win overwhelmingly.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    Roy just needs to punch a reporter

    No. That would likely cost him enough votes to lose the election.
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  8. RT Denied Access to US Congress Bastion of Free Speech, Credentials Revoked, Whither Freedom?

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  9. wayfarer says:

    California Cockroaches

    MS-13 (Mara Salvatrucha):
    An international criminal gang that originated in Los Angeles, California.
    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS-13

    National Geographic: America’s Deadliest Gang
    source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z16dC0cfN9Y

    Most Wanted – Los Angeles Police Department
    source: http://www.lapdonline.org/all_most_wanted

    Top 10 Most Wanted – Los Angeles Police Department
    source: http://www.lapdonline.org/top_ten_most_wanted

    Read More
    • Replies: @renfro
    Here are the major Mexican and S.A. street gangs linked to drug trafficking, illegal immigration, people smuggling, robbery, larceny, human trafficking, extortion, murder, money laundering, prostitution, racketeering, battery, kidnapping, arms trafficking

    M-13
    Sureños
    Sinaloa Cartel
    Gulf Cartel
    La Familia Michoacana
    Mexican Mafia
    Los Zetas
    18th Street gang
    Juarez Cartel
    Los Negros
    Sombra Negra
    Tijuana Cartel
    Beltrán-Leyva Cartel
    The Rascals
    Tiny Rascal Gang
    Bloods
    Crips
    Pirus
    Fresno Bulldogs
    Hoover Boyz
    Hoover Criminals
    Latin Kings
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  10. iffen says:
    @WHAT
    Roy just needs to punch a reporter from some libshit rag now to win overwhelmingly.

    Roy just needs to punch a reporter

    No. That would likely cost him enough votes to lose the election.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wally
    Or increase the amount he wins by.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  11. Wj says:
    @Twodees Partain
    "Jeff Sessions shouldn’t have accepted a post in Trump’s cabinet."

    I agree. While we're playing "shoulda", Trump "shoulda never" offered the position to Sessions. Doing so showed that Trump either didn't know anything about Sessions, or that he intended to protect Clinton and the other Obama team members from prosecution.

    Failing to fire Comey on the afternoon of the inaugural pretty well tipped Trump's hand in that regard, anyway.

    We lost a solid man in the senate with the Sessions appointment. Cotton is another solid guy on illegal immigration and his name is being tossed around for the CIA. Not good. He is from Arkansas, not Oklahoma. Ok has the senile Inhofe and the worsening by the day, James Lankford.

    Read More
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  12. Trump needs to appoint a Secretary of Physical Removal, so to speak.

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  13. iffen says:

    It’s hard to see Moore losing when he gets gifts like this one:

    Daily Beast:

    NOVEL AND SHADY

    The Super PAC Attacking Roy Moore Won’t Disclose Its Donors Before the Vote

    Highway 31 has spent millions to defeat the GOP candidate. And it won’t reveal who finances it till after the election. The kicker: It’s all legal.

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-super-pac-attacking-roy-moore-wont-disclose-its-donors-before-the-vote

    Read More
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  14. renfro says:
    @wayfarer
    California Cockroaches

    MS-13 (Mara Salvatrucha):
    An international criminal gang that originated in Los Angeles, California.
    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS-13

    National Geographic: America’s Deadliest Gang
    source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z16dC0cfN9Y

    Most Wanted – Los Angeles Police Department
    source: http://www.lapdonline.org/all_most_wanted

    Top 10 Most Wanted – Los Angeles Police Department
    source: http://www.lapdonline.org/top_ten_most_wanted

    http://a.abcnews.com/images/US/AP-MS13-Raid-03-jrl-17051_12x5_992.jpg

    http://vancouverweekly.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Sin-Nombre-001.jpg

    Here are the major Mexican and S.A. street gangs linked to drug trafficking, illegal immigration, people smuggling, robbery, larceny, human trafficking, extortion, murder, money laundering, prostitution, racketeering, battery, kidnapping, arms trafficking

    [MORE]

    M-13
    Sureños
    Sinaloa Cartel
    Gulf Cartel
    La Familia Michoacana
    Mexican Mafia
    Los Zetas
    18th Street gang
    Juarez Cartel
    Los Negros
    Sombra Negra
    Tijuana Cartel
    Beltrán-Leyva Cartel
    The Rascals
    Tiny Rascal Gang
    Bloods
    Crips
    Pirus
    Fresno Bulldogs
    Hoover Boyz
    Hoover Criminals
    Latin Kings

    Read More
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  15. Wally says:
    @iffen
    Roy just needs to punch a reporter

    No. That would likely cost him enough votes to lose the election.

    Or increase the amount he wins by.

    Read More
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  16. Sam J. says:
    @John Gruskos
    Jeff Sessions shouldn't have accepted a post in Trump's cabinet.

    He should have stayed in the senate as an independent advocate for the America First agenda.

    That way, he could truthfully say that Donald Trump owed him, but not vice versa. It would have been a stronger position from which to fight the Kushner/globalist wing of the Trump administration.

    It is also unfortunate that Mo Brooks didn't win the Republican senatorial primary. Brooks has a long, solid record on National Question issues such as immigration restriction, non-interventionist foreign policy and populist economics, in addition to being a solid social conservative.

    Roy Moore is improving on National Question issues under the pressure of globalist attacks, but the race wouldn't be this close is he had been making nationalism his main theme from the very beginning. Uber-nationalist Jeff Sessions won with more than 97% of the vote in the last general election. Roy Moore lazily assumed the old 1980s Ronald Reagan talking points (abortion etc.) would be enough - and it cost him.

    This is an important lesson for all insurgent Republicans. Social conservatism on issues like abortion, gay marriage, and public displays of Christianity may be enough to win a Republican primary, but they are not enough to win a general election - not even in Alabama. Nationalism is absolutely essential.

    “…Jeff Sessions shouldn’t have accepted a post in Trump’s cabinet…”

    I disagree with this but for different reasons. I was a huge Sessions fan. I thought he was a major solid guy but his inaction when we know there has been massive corruption, illegal wiretapping, influence peddling, play for play, and on and on. These are just some of the laws broken that we can see in the open. I believe there are much more serious things that we don’t have public evidence for. And Sessions has done…nothing. Now maybe he’s building a case but to do so he should have been arresting some of the smaller players by now to catch the big fish so I assume he’s doing nothing. I can make no other assumption based on his actions that he’s been compromised in some way. It’s also likely that Trump has been too. He’s a million times better than Hillary but the basic ongoing denigration of our country continues. People are still being killed in mass shootings, (Vegas) where you can hear two shooters yet the government swears up and down there’s only one. Why does he let this go on? What we need is more Roy Moore’s. I don’t care if they’re even that competent. They just need to not be compromised. I don’t think Mo Brooks would have been better. If the establishment is for them then they must be compromised. It’s just like famous actresses and singers that have long dealings with Harvey Weinstein. They may not be whores but that’s the way to bet.

    Read More
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  17. well, the golden question :) did he have or try to have sex with underage teens?

    forget the msm attacks or trump’s support :) this is just noise. don’t understand why people are focusing on this.

    did he do it? there are now 5+ girls accusing him.

    did he do it?

    kkeakeakeae

    Read More
    • Replies: @CW1
    The age of consent in Alabama is 16. There is only one girl who says she was 14 and even that was ok with parental consent at the time. It shows questionable judgement. Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD.
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  18. Pirelli says:

    …Oklahoma Senator Tom Cotton?

    Read More
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  19. TG says:

    This is a typical issues-free campaign.

    Suppose you are being savagely beaten up in a back alley, and Roy Moore comes to your defense. Oh, but the Washington Post says that he was a creep some decades ago. So of course you tell Roy Moore to go away and allow yourself to be savagely beaten.

    Unless of course you are sane, and when life and limb is at risk, you will accept help from anyone even if they are not an altar boy (or should I say altar-person?).

    It’s hard to tell from his typically issue-free campaign website, but Moore’s opponent appears to be in favor of wasting trillions of dollars fighting pointless winless wars on the other side of the planet, spreading death and destruction to no purpose other than enriching politically-connected defense contractors (among other things). Why is this somehow OK? Why are we not all outraged? Have we all completely lost our collective minds and sense of sanity? When did ‘liberals’ get OK with permanent mindless mass slaugther?

    Roy Moore may well be barking mad, but his opponent is a totally corrupt toady to the donor class and is the sworn enemy on all American citizens who work for a living and only want a peaceful and prosperous nation to raise their families in.

    I am hereby invoking Godwin’s Law. Adolph Hitler was loyal to Eva Braun, and FDR cheated on his wife, and Winston Churchill was a racist sexist pig who harassed his female staff. Who’s your daddy?

    Read More
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  20. CW1 says:
    @Astuteobservor II
    well, the golden question :) did he have or try to have sex with underage teens?

    forget the msm attacks or trump's support :) this is just noise. don't understand why people are focusing on this.

    did he do it? there are now 5+ girls accusing him.

    did he do it?

    kkeakeakeae

    The age of consent in Alabama is 16. There is only one girl who says she was 14 and even that was ok with parental consent at the time. It shows questionable judgement. Just because you CAN do something doesn’t mean you SHOULD.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
    16 and 14 year olds :/ a middle age fart in his mid 30s hitting on teens as young as 14 for sex, that is somehow ok :)

    you guys need to work on your morality.

    FYI, I am totally ok with 14-18 years old exploring sex with each other, but not with some middle age pervert.

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  21. @CW1
    The age of consent in Alabama is 16. There is only one girl who says she was 14 and even that was ok with parental consent at the time. It shows questionable judgement. Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD.

    16 and 14 year olds :/ a middle age fart in his mid 30s hitting on teens as young as 14 for sex, that is somehow ok :)

    you guys need to work on your morality.

    FYI, I am totally ok with 14-18 years old exploring sex with each other, but not with some middle age pervert.

    Read More
    • Replies: @CW1
    I just stating a fact this was true (in terms of age of consent) and what was true at the tine (this was ok with parental consent). Stating facts is different than making moral judgement. It's a fact that even if not illegal or socially questioned (more than likely it wasn't, not in Alabama in 1970-something), it demonstrates poor judgement in doing it at all for reasons that are obvious. Stating that something wasn't illegal is not making a moral judgement, it's just saying that it wasn't illegal. You should be able to state accurate facts as you know them and I did look this up. Also, he was in his early 30s at the time, not middle aged which is 45 - 65. I also read the most of the accusers are between 16 and 19 yearss old I would withhold making judgements on other people's morality until you have all you facts straight. I was just stating that, based on the current law and the law at the time, it wasn't illegal. Illegal and socially / procedurally / morally questionable are different things. Don't buy into the inflated rhetoric coming from all sides. Was it not illegal, yes. Is it morally questionable? Yes. Was it socially questionable? Today, definitely. At the time, in Alabama, maybe not. Does it show very poor judgement? Definitely. With a young age of consent, it can be taken advantage of easily. I always considered his win a fluke. The truth is, the establishment doesn't deal well with flukes.
    For me it goes back to the fact that there should be an investigation. Both sides should be transparent and honest. If conducted properly, the investigation would bear out the facts. Likewise if you are telling the truth, you shouldn't fear an investigation because it will shed further light on the truth. Again, I'm just simply pointing out the lack of transparency within what is being released without pointing a finger at whose responsible. This is not a partisan thing for me. I'd say the same about Franken. One side coming forward with an accusation is NOT an investigation. I choose to not appoint myself judge, jury and executioner or chief exonerator until all the facts are out or until the situation plays out more. Does this mean looking at facts that make you uncomfortable or even poke holes in your position. Even if he were seated, he could always step down. Am I comfortable with someone in their early 30s taking advantage of a low age of consent? Yes. Do I think it shows very, very, VERY poor judgement on his part? Absolutely!! Was it illegal? Well, no. Based on purely LEGAL grounds, he's fine. When it comes to moral and social grounds, it's MUCH shakier. I'm not against allegations being investigated -- I applaud it in fact, but I am absolutely against painting something that was legal (either currently or at the time you are discussing) as though it was illegal. By leaving things out , they are only giving a half truth. I looked this up on my own and found this info. Age of consent varies by state.
    , @iffen
    you guys need to work on your morality

    This is not about morality; it's about political power and control.
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  22. CW1 says:
    @Astuteobservor II
    16 and 14 year olds :/ a middle age fart in his mid 30s hitting on teens as young as 14 for sex, that is somehow ok :)

    you guys need to work on your morality.

    FYI, I am totally ok with 14-18 years old exploring sex with each other, but not with some middle age pervert.

    I just stating a fact this was true (in terms of age of consent) and what was true at the tine (this was ok with parental consent). Stating facts is different than making moral judgement. It’s a fact that even if not illegal or socially questioned (more than likely it wasn’t, not in Alabama in 1970-something), it demonstrates poor judgement in doing it at all for reasons that are obvious. Stating that something wasn’t illegal is not making a moral judgement, it’s just saying that it wasn’t illegal. You should be able to state accurate facts as you know them and I did look this up. Also, he was in his early 30s at the time, not middle aged which is 45 – 65. I also read the most of the accusers are between 16 and 19 yearss old I would withhold making judgements on other people’s morality until you have all you facts straight. I was just stating that, based on the current law and the law at the time, it wasn’t illegal. Illegal and socially / procedurally / morally questionable are different things. Don’t buy into the inflated rhetoric coming from all sides. Was it not illegal, yes. Is it morally questionable? Yes. Was it socially questionable? Today, definitely. At the time, in Alabama, maybe not. Does it show very poor judgement? Definitely. With a young age of consent, it can be taken advantage of easily. I always considered his win a fluke. The truth is, the establishment doesn’t deal well with flukes.
    For me it goes back to the fact that there should be an investigation. Both sides should be transparent and honest. If conducted properly, the investigation would bear out the facts. Likewise if you are telling the truth, you shouldn’t fear an investigation because it will shed further light on the truth. Again, I’m just simply pointing out the lack of transparency within what is being released without pointing a finger at whose responsible. This is not a partisan thing for me. I’d say the same about Franken. One side coming forward with an accusation is NOT an investigation. I choose to not appoint myself judge, jury and executioner or chief exonerator until all the facts are out or until the situation plays out more. Does this mean looking at facts that make you uncomfortable or even poke holes in your position. Even if he were seated, he could always step down. Am I comfortable with someone in their early 30s taking advantage of a low age of consent? Yes. Do I think it shows very, very, VERY poor judgement on his part? Absolutely!! Was it illegal? Well, no. Based on purely LEGAL grounds, he’s fine. When it comes to moral and social grounds, it’s MUCH shakier. I’m not against allegations being investigated — I applaud it in fact, but I am absolutely against painting something that was legal (either currently or at the time you are discussing) as though it was illegal. By leaving things out , they are only giving a half truth. I looked this up on my own and found this info. Age of consent varies by state.

    Read More
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  23. no where in my comments so far stated it was illegal right? I am pretty consistent with my comments. this whole time I have been talking about morality. one would think the bible belt place morality in the top 3 if not #1.

    about the middle age thing, I have always thought it was between 30-50. I stand corrected :) I consider people over 50 to be old. this was why I wrote “a middle age fart in his mid 30s”. I included his age.

    I am surprised you are okay with this. he had sex with 16 and 14 year olds when he was 30-35. legal or not, you want someone like that for a senator for your state? be honest :)

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  24. iffen says:
    @Astuteobservor II
    16 and 14 year olds :/ a middle age fart in his mid 30s hitting on teens as young as 14 for sex, that is somehow ok :)

    you guys need to work on your morality.

    FYI, I am totally ok with 14-18 years old exploring sex with each other, but not with some middle age pervert.

    you guys need to work on your morality

    This is not about morality; it’s about political power and control.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
    of course it is. but him sleeping with 16 and 14 year olds is also fact.

    you want your leaders to be pedophiles?
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  25. @iffen
    you guys need to work on your morality

    This is not about morality; it's about political power and control.

    of course it is. but him sleeping with 16 and 14 year olds is also fact.

    you want your leaders to be pedophiles?

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    you want your leaders to be pedophiles?

    Yes, as a matter of fact, I have stopped beating my wife.
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  26. iffen says:
    @Astuteobservor II
    of course it is. but him sleeping with 16 and 14 year olds is also fact.

    you want your leaders to be pedophiles?

    you want your leaders to be pedophiles?

    Yes, as a matter of fact, I have stopped beating my wife.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
    so you are a baby fucking wife beater? good for you :)
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  27. @iffen
    you want your leaders to be pedophiles?

    Yes, as a matter of fact, I have stopped beating my wife.

    so you are a baby fucking wife beater? good for you :)

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    One of your 14 year old babies just admitted to forgery.
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  28. iffen says:
    @Astuteobservor II
    so you are a baby fucking wife beater? good for you :)

    One of your 14 year old babies just admitted to forgery.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
    I guess my reply was a bit over the top, apologies to the mod.

    new reply.

    link to the article/source please, before I can reply properly.
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  29. @iffen
    One of your 14 year old babies just admitted to forgery.

    I guess my reply was a bit over the top, apologies to the mod.

    new reply.

    link to the article/source please, before I can reply properly.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    link to the article/source please, before I can reply properly.

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/12/08/forgery-explained-beverly-young-nelson-gloria-allred-presented-notes-roy-moores-writing/

    Does this mean you are going to give fact-based thinking a try?

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  30. iffen says:
    @Astuteobservor II
    I guess my reply was a bit over the top, apologies to the mod.

    new reply.

    link to the article/source please, before I can reply properly.

    link to the article/source please, before I can reply properly.

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/12/08/forgery-explained-beverly-young-nelson-gloria-allred-presented-notes-roy-moores-writing/

    Does this mean you are going to give fact-based thinking a try?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
    haha.

    fact-based thinking
     
    that is kinda oxymoronic since you linked breitbart :)

    which part of the writings in the year book was forged? do you know? oh shit, you don't?

    Not only did Nelson and Allred claim, falsely, that Moore wrote the entire inscription, but they refused to offer it to a neutral and independent expert for analysis. And they waited more than three weeks to admit that the inscription had been altered. That is forgery, and to the extent it casts doubt on Nelson’s story, that is her, and Allred’s, fault.
     
    even your breitbart source isn't sure in it's conclusion. why are you so sure? :)))

    now, lets explore this in a scenario where your claim is true, nelson lied about this entire thing.

    what about other girls? did they lie too? :))))))

    ps: I know the age of consent in israel is 16, for boys is 14. from your strong reaction, did you sleep with underage teens? admit it :))))))))))
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  31. @iffen
    link to the article/source please, before I can reply properly.

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/12/08/forgery-explained-beverly-young-nelson-gloria-allred-presented-notes-roy-moores-writing/

    Does this mean you are going to give fact-based thinking a try?

    haha.

    fact-based thinking

    that is kinda oxymoronic since you linked breitbart :)

    which part of the writings in the year book was forged? do you know? oh shit, you don’t?

    Not only did Nelson and Allred claim, falsely, that Moore wrote the entire inscription, but they refused to offer it to a neutral and independent expert for analysis. And they waited more than three weeks to admit that the inscription had been altered. That is forgery, and to the extent it casts doubt on Nelson’s story, that is her, and Allred’s, fault.

    even your breitbart source isn’t sure in it’s conclusion. why are you so sure? :)))

    now, lets explore this in a scenario where your claim is true, nelson lied about this entire thing.

    what about other girls? did they lie too? :))))))

    ps: I know the age of consent in israel is 16, for boys is 14. from your strong reaction, did you sleep with underage teens? admit it :))))))))))

    Read More
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