The Unz Review: An Alternative Media Selection
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 Godfree Roberts Archive
Corruption in China
The Worst kind of Treason
🔊 Listen RSS
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Troll, or LOL with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used once per hour.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

The men of Qi presented the government of Lu with a troupe of singing girls. Ji Huanzi accepted them and for three days failed to appear at court. Confucius left the state. Analects

Everywhere, since ancient times, peole have feared government corruption for, unlike war or fraud, corrupt policies cripple nations for centuries. No society has suffered more grievously from–nor waged more protracted war against–official corruption than the Chinese. Today however, though the story not over, it is nearing a goal that could make them the envy of the world and, like most Chinese stories, theirs is a long one.

Corruption–nepotistic, pecuniary, blatant, discreet, major and minor–has been subverting governments since governments were invented. Roman politicians were scandalously corrupt, Christianity failed to improve them, and their legacy of official impunity, bribery, influence peddling, patronage, nepotism and cronyism, electoral fraud, embezzlement, kickbacks, unholy alliances, and involvement with organized crime afflicts us today and we have become numb to it.

China, by contrast, has often enjoyed honest governments and upright officials have been dear to Chinese hearts for millennia. On May 5, 278 BC, after the King of Chu ignored his warnings about official corruption, State Minister Qu Yuan[1]Qu Yuan, 340-278 BC, was a Chu kingdom official and government minister who wrote some of the greatest poetry in Chinese history. drowned himself in the Miluo River in protest. On that day ever since, Dragon Boats renew their search for his body. Great Confucians like the The Hongwu Emperor[2]From Huáng-Míng Zǔxùn (Instructions of the Ancestor of the August Ming), admonitions left to his descendants by the Hongwu Emperor Zhu Yuanzhang, founder of the Ming dynasty (1368 to 1644). fought corruption tirelessly:

Had I thoroughly eradicated corrupt officials in addition to those already imprisoned I would have been dealing with two thousand men from just two prefectures, men with no useful occupation who used my prestige to oppress people. No-one outside government knew how wicked they were, so everyone said my punishments were harsh, for they saw only the severity of the law and didn’t know that these villains had used the government’s good name to engage in evil practices. In the morning I punished a few and, by evening, others had committed the same crimes. I punished those in the evening and next morning there were more violations! Although the corpses of the first had not been removed others were already lined up to follow in their path, day and night! The harsher the punishment, the more violations. I didn’t know what to do, but I couldn’t rest. If I was lenient the law became ineffectual, order deteriorated, people thought me weak and engaged in still more evil practices. If I punished them, others regarded me as a tyrant. How could anyone lead a peaceful life in such circumstances? Really, my situation was dreadful.

Confucians fought corruption more effectively than the Romans, partly because of public participation. The people retained the right to withdraw the Mandate of Heaven–and, according to the constitution, still do–and many governments met grisly ends when they failed to honor the Four Principles–propriety, justice, honesty, and honor–or their officials lacked the Eight Virtues–loyalty, filial piety, benevolence, love, integrity, righteousness, harmony and peace.

From the earliest days, officials transferred to provinces were forbidden to bring their parents lest their needs conflict with the Emperor’s. They were rotated every three years and, after each rotation, their successors were encouraged to report discrepancies for fear that they be blamed for them. Palace officials were regularly moved between departments and the seriously corrupt were strangled and their families sold into slavery.

Every Chinese, from humble farmers to eminent politicians, knows this history and understands that promoting honest men to leadership is the way to prevent corruption. Many still living saw how a century of chaos devastated public morality, as Mao observed during a 1950 anti-corruption drive, “Today, you can buy a branch secretary for a few packs of cigarettes, not to mention marrying a daughter to him.” Mao’s slogan, “The masses have sharp eyes,” encouraged people to report wrongdoing and corruption fell dramatically. His insistence on merely shaming corrupt officials worked because, says Sydney Rittenberg[3]An old friend of the party assesses China’s new leaders. Rob Schmitz. Marketplace. November 19, 2012. “Nobody locked their doors. The banks–there was a local bank branch on many, many corners–the door was wide open, the currency was stacked up on the table in plain sight of the door, there were no guards and they never had a bank robbery, ever.”

As its accomplishments demonstrate, postwar China was free of corruption at the policy-making level but, especially during the forty year Reform and Opening, lower level corruption flourished. Anticipating this in 1980, planners redesigned officials’ incentives so that bribers would effectively be rewarding them for expediting the plan, says Yukon Huang[4]Yukon Huang was the World Bank’s Director for China. The Diplomat, “The system countered the growth‐inhibiting aspects of corruption by setting investment and production targets that gave local officials incentives to promote expansion. It fostered a unity of purpose so that, even when corruption flourished, the collaborators still made growth the guiding principle of their actions. This was reinforced by competition between localities to meet targets and support productivity‐enhancing economic reforms. The competitive element helped curb waste and ensured a modicum of efficiency despite the high degree of state intervention in commercial activities.” Sometimes though, as throughout Chinese history, things got out of hand.

Acting on a tipoff about smuggling, Beijing secretly sent detectives to Xiamen Port in 1999 but the smugglers, tipped off, set fire to the investigators’ hotel and killed them as they slept. On national television the next day, Premier Zhu Rongji declared war and ordered a hundred coffins, “Ninety-nine for the crooks and one for me.” Detectives from across the country converged on the city and what they found staggered them: four million tons of imported diesel fuel had bypassed customs in just two years. They tracked hundreds of suspects, locked escapees in a local hotel with armed guards on each floor, and spent three years unravelling a case so complex that the customs files alone would be higher than a ten-story building. The gang had bribed the vice-minister of Public Security, Li Jizhou, through his wife and daughter, and Li and thirteen others were sentenced to death, his wife to thirty months in prison and three hundred officials were tried for aiding or abetting the criminals. The ringleader, farmer-turned-smuggler Lai Changxing, fled to Canada, was extradited, and jailed for life in 2009.

After ten years of economic free rein the economy was booming but critics complained of endemic corruption, forgetting that the cycle of alternating liberal and conservative policies is as old and predictable as the moon. Rapid growth had solved many problems but a new cycle was presaged by a nepotism scandal, a form of corruption to which family centric China is uniquely vulnerable. Emperor Wu of Han curbed nepotism by examination in the second century BC and sixteen centuries later, of two-hundred seventy-nine senior officials whose family histories we know[5]China’s Meritocratic Examinations and the Ideal of Virtuous Talents. Xiao, H., & Li, C. (2013). In D. Bell & C. Li (Eds.), The East Asian Challenge for Democracy: Political Meritocracy in Comparative Perspective: Cambridge University Press., fewer than half had forebears in government (by 2018, it was one-sixth).

In 1985 Bo Xilai, son of a Revolutionary Immortal and Xi Jinping’s schoolmate, had ignored his father’s pleas to stay out of politics, “You know nothing of the sufferings of ordinary people and just want to capitalize on my name.” Xilai cultivated a charismatic image, was named one of Time’s Most Influential People, rose rapidly to provincial governor and publicly campaigned for a cabinet position. But, as conservative scholar Cheng Li said at the time, “Nobody really trusts him. A lot of people are scared of him, including several princelings who are supposed to be his power base.” Michael Wines wrote that, though he possessed prodigious charisma and deep intelligence, “He possessed a studied indifference to the wrecked lives that littered his path to power…Mr. Bo’s ruthlessness stood out.” With the help of Justice Minister Zhou Yongkang, Bo had even wiretapped President Hu.

Despite considerable internal resistance, Vice Premier Wu Yi, the nation’s highest woman official, demanded an open investigation and a 2012 trial revealed that Bo owned expensive properties around the world and that his wife had murdered a British agent. They were jailed for life and joined a long line of disgraced elites like the grandson of China’s Head of State and founder of the Red Army, Zhu De, who was executed for rape, and Yan Jianhong, wife of Guizhou’s powerful Party Secretary, who was executed for corruption.

With prosperity assured, and elite corruption confronted, Congress anointed Xi Jinping, the most honest, competent official of his generation, to succeed President Hu. In its first year, Xi’s anti-corruption campaign saw ten thousand officials passed over for promotion for concealing information and one-hundred thirty-thousand demoted or disciplined for making false declarations. By 2016, prosecutors had charged sixty-three senior officials and ministers with corruption, released confessions from fifty-seven thousand Party members who made restitution and accepted demotions and seen Yunnan’s corrupt Party Secretary, Bai Enpei, sentenced to death. By 2018, anti-corruption squads had investigated 1.3 million bureaucrats, filed a million court cases, issued one hundred thousand indictments, captured thousands of overseas fugitives and jailed or executed one-hundred twenty high-ranking officials–including five national leaders, twelve generals, a dozen CEOs and Sun Zhengcai, former Chongqing Party chief, who was sentenced to life in prison for taking huge bribes. After a 2019 industrial explosion in Tianjin killed one-hundred sixty-five people, the magistrate found that petty bribery had led to weak code enforcement, sentenced the responsible official to death, and jailed forty-nine of his colleagues.

Graft investigators unannounced inspections now resemble elite athletes’ doping tests. An Anhui inspection team telephoned an official four times between 7:31-7:35 one evening about his poverty alleviation efforts. He was showering and, when he failed to answer, they reported him for obstruction and moved to dismiss him. Happily, through social media, the public came to his defense and he was exonerated.

Knowing that that ten percent of their statements will be audited, even deputy county officials now report their marital status, overseas travel, criminal record, wages, other earnings, family properties, stocks, funds, insurance and investments. If they refuse to answer questions, or collude with, or protect accomplices, they are detained immediately.

Bureaucrats–especially those with leadership ambitions–endure increasing scrutiny as they advance, says Zhao Bing Bing[6]Daniel Bell and Zhao Bing Bing, The China Model., “The selection criteria are: a person must have ‘both ability and moral integrity and the latter should be prioritized[7]The same wording as the Chief Censor used in the Tang Dynasty..’” Midlevel officials must report their own assets and those of their parents, wives, children, children’s spouses and cousins, children from previous marriages, children born out of wedlock and foster children. They must report their income, savings, real estate, stock portfolios, insurance policies, unit trusts, bonds, assets in overseas accounts and, “Income shall include salary and various bonuses, allowances, subsidies, and payment you receive from lectures, writing, consultation, reviewing, painting and calligraphy.” Says a scion of a prominent family:

I am a Party Member in China and all my family are Party members. What I think of Xi is that the life is really changing after he came to power. A relative of mine works for the government as a vital governor in my city Chengdu (which is a big city like BeiJing or ShangHai), then all my family people are like in the hierarchy of privilege. We pay nothing when go out for dinner, the Party pays. We pay nothing for filling in oil, the Party pays. It seems like we don’t need to pay for anything with our salaries, cause either the Party pays, or someone will pay for us (who wants to flatter us). I smoke the best, I drink the best, sometimes I even drive without license when drunk, because I fear no one.

In past times, yes we did have privilege everywhere, I felt so arrogant to be superior to others that’s also true. But the problem is, there is a tradeoff. We drank quite a lot of alcohol to show respect to others, we had to accept bribes even we know it’s risky, cause we have to consider about our clan (like the interest of my boss). We had to do some many things we don’t want to do, that’s the rule of living in Party, care about the interest of Clan more than your own. That’s how we united. We have to fear a lot of threats from ordinary people, colleagues, and bosses. We cannot keep our own passports, Party keeps it in case of we flee.

But life changed after Xi came to power, he did real things on anti-corruption. No one dare to present gifts to governors and the abuse of public funds is strictly monitored. The Party took back the public cars from my family and even we have to pay for the parking fee now! But..my family and I are actually happy with this, we are thankful to President Xi. Cause he seems like dragging China to a healthier future. My relatives don’t need to go out for dinner with other governors as social intercourse daily, they don’t need to drink so much on the table. And they start to learn to pay for the bill by turns, cause the Party will no longer do this for them. They start to learn how to take bus or metro. That’s good, actually. People start to think about what kind of lifestyle is called ‘healthy,’ they are more like human now, no longer some conceited stupid with expanding power. That’s how our life changed after Xi came.

Senior ministers’ lives have become excruciatingly transparent. Their private activities are scrutinized and their children must adopt assumed names to avoid influence-seekers. Their meetings must have third-party observers as one-on-one appointments are taken as evidence of impropriety. A record of excessive, or poor quality, government debts is treated as prima facie evidence of corruption and automatically investigated. Senior officials are audited annually after retirement, remain responsible for the consequences of all their decisions until the day they die and, even then, clawback provisions apply.

Xi invited amateur corruption fighters to join the campaign and Beijing publishes a monthly scoresheet. Citizens text tips and complaints to the Rules and Discipline Committee (founded in the Tang Dynasty) at #12388 and often post accusations and photographs of evidence on social media and request additional witnesses. Social media have made the masses’ eyes sharper. Netizens scrutinizing a news photograph noticed the work safety boss of Shaanxi province grinning broadly as he assessed the twisted wreckage of a bus and a methanol tanker following an accident that left 36 people dead. They spotted his expensive timepiece and their tipoff and subsequent investigation sent Yang Dacai, Brother Watch, to jail for fourteen years for taking a million dollars in bribes.

Today visitors burn incense at the shrines of great corruption fighters, the battle with official corruption still accounts for half of all Chinese dramas, and millions watch TV dramas about ‘Justice Bao’ Zheng, the incorruptible Prefect of the Capital in 1000 AD. A popular TV series, ‘In the Name of People,’ depicts current-day intra-Party power struggles in the fictional city of Jingzhou. There a prosecutor and a handful of honest local officials help laid-off workers protest a corrupt land deal, foil corrupt bureaucrats sabotaging an arrest warrant, and stop fake police bulldozing honest citizens’ homes. The show’s writers say they have no shortage of material.

The anti-corruption campaign has been immensely popular and, by any measure, successful. In 2018, eighty-three percent of Chinese said the government runs the country for everyone’s benefit and ninety-three percent said they trust it–figures rivaling Switzerland’s and Finland’s. But it was just a prelude to what will probably be Xi’s most memorable contribution to Chinese history, the creation of the National Supervision Commission[8]The National Supervision Commission was formed at the first session of the 13th National People’s Congress in 2018 and absorbed the Central Commission for Discipline Inspection of the Communist Party of China..

Until 2018, anti-corruption work was shared by the National Bureau of Corruption Prevention, which recommended anti-corruption policies and handled international anti-corruption coordination. The Supreme People’s Procuratorate investigated various kinds of malfeasance. The Central Commission for Discipline Inspection enforced party loyalty, anti-graft, ethical and Party lifestyle requirements among civil servants and leading officials who are Party members, but turned criminal evidence over to the state for prosecution. The Ministry of Supervision, MOS, supervised civil servants who were non-Party members, investigated graft, misappropriation of public funds and other duty-related violations.

The Commission subsumes their functions into an independent, fourth arm of government that ranks with the Supreme Court and the Department of Justice. As the most powerful such agency on earth, it employs legislation, digital technology (including face recognition and AI), the sharp eyes of the people, and great investigative powers. With the goal of making corruption impossible, it centralizes all anti-corruption processes and exercises authority over all civil servants within and outside the Party, the government, the People’s Congresses, the local supervisory commissions, the people’s courts and procuracy, the People’s Congresses, the eight democratic parties, federations of industry and commerce, and everyone who works in, or consults for, organizations managing public affairs. With extensive powers to interrogate, search, wiretap, detain suspects and freeze their assets, its writ extends to managers of state owned enterprises, state educational, scientific, research, cultural, health care, sports, and similar agencies, think tanks, village and urban residents committees, and ‘all other personnel who perform public duties’ and oversees provincial, city, and county level anti-corruption agencies.

Congress appoints the Commission’s senior staff and Yang Xiaodu, its first director was, like Xi, a sent-down youth who performed manual labour in Anhui province during the Cultural Revolution. Staff need not be Party members but they can never work in another arm of government for the rest of their lives. The Commission is a political, not administrative body, and is exempt from the extensive procedural and substantive constraints on administrative organs like the police. Though the law requires staff to pay compensation ‘in accordance with law’ for infringing people’s lawful rights and interests, it does not provide a right of further recourse through the courts, but does permit targets to appeal to higher-level organs for re-examination of the Commission’s decisions and to challenge unlawful conduct like prolonged detention.

If the Commission comes even close to its goal of making corruption impossible, grateful citizens will credit Confucius and the First Emperor for limiting political power to a single lifetime and confining it to those who demonstrate both honesty and intelligence. They will credit the present dynasty for testing officials in the wilderness and imposing extraordinary transparency, themselves for their unwillingness to tolerate corruption, and Xi Jinping for creating the most powerful corruption-fighting agency in history. Looking back only ten years, it is difficult to believe that corruption in China is on track to rival Singapore’s by 2021.

*Corruption in Eighteenth-Century China. Nancy E. Park. The Journal of Asian Studies, vol. 56, no. 4, 1997.

Notes

[1] Qu Yuan, 340-278 BC, was a Chu kingdom official and government minister who wrote some of the greatest poetry in Chinese history.

[2] From Huáng-Míng Zǔxùn (Instructions of the Ancestor of the August Ming), admonitions left to his descendants by the Hongwu Emperor Zhu Yuanzhang, founder of the Ming dynasty (1368 to 1644).

[3] An old friend of the party assesses China’s new leaders. Rob Schmitz. Marketplace. November 19, 2012

[4] Yukon Huang was the World Bank’s Director for China. The Diplomat

[5] China’s Meritocratic Examinations and the Ideal of Virtuous Talents. Xiao, H., & Li, C. (2013). In D. Bell & C. Li (Eds.), The East Asian Challenge for Democracy: Political Meritocracy in Comparative Perspective: Cambridge University Press.

[6] Daniel Bell and Zhao Bing Bing, The China Model.

[7] The same wording as the Chief Censor used in the Tang Dynasty.

[8] The National Supervision Commission was formed at the first session of the 13th National People’s Congress in 2018 and absorbed the Central Commission for Discipline Inspection of the Communist Party of China.

 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: China, Corruption, Xi Jinping 
Hide 188 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
    []
  1. FatPanda says:

    Great article.

    Is that “law breaking” chart from Jeff Browns “China Rising” book? The name has changed?

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  2. d dan says:

    One salient difference between the Chinese and the Western concept of corruption is the role of laws. For people in the west, the definition of corruption is strongly tied to, and in fact mostly defined through laws. To put it very crudely: anything legal is not corruption, and vice versa (i.e. all corruption is illegal).

    In China, there is an additional emphasis of the moral aspect and it is less constrained by laws. An immoral action, even if it is legal, may still be considered a corruption by the Chinese society. For example, if a relative of Xi would to give a speech, and then received an exorbitant fee, it probably would be considered a corruption in China. However, in US, this is perfectly legal (and a reason many ex-politicians and ex-government employees become very rich) and it won’t be considered a corruption.

    There is really no right or wrong in either approaches. Both contains their pros and cons. The Western way has the advantage of transparency that make it easier to follow. But it favors the rich and powerful people who can find loopholes and workarounds to the laws. It also has the disadvantage of difficulty in keeping abreast with advances and changes of society and technologies . The Chinese way has the advantage of flexibility to meeting the moral standard and demands from the people, but may become confusing and uncertain for many people like businessmen or foreigners.

    • Agree: Tom Welsh
  3. Muggles says:

    In case you hadn’t noticed from prior postings, “Godfree Roberts” is a fake name for a CCP propaganda writer who scours the Internet for things to promote official views for, such as this absurd piece.

    The stilted prose and logic is evident. His stuff is full of charts and graphs which magically appear on his computer, unlike yours or mine. Much of that might be “true” in the sense of basic historical writings, but selectively edited. Current Chinese leader Xi here is extolled as chasing “corruption” away. Ha!

    The CCP knows corruption/graft, etc. is poison to their authoritarian one party state dictatorship. It is endemic in all such states. So periodically there are huge purges, trials, executions, etc. and a new set of stooges are risen up. Some get the message, most just bow humbly and wait for the storm to pass. It is as old as China. Of course government corruption is hardly unique to China. But in places where party leaders can be voted out (not merely a few shot for effect) it can be cleaned out periodically. Chinese are wisely quiet and cynical about this.

    Meanwhile Mr. “Roberts” probably earns a very nice salary doing this work. Maybe even teaches English and propaganda messaging part time. Billions are spent censoring the Internet there and creating rosy statistics. Some gullible foreigners buy into that. Fair enough. Every State has its hired liars and propaganda artists. But China has really set the mark for its effort.

    Just avoid going there and saying anything negative. Their prisons are not like ours.

  4. SteveK9 says:

    What mechanisms are in place to keep this from going too far? That is, accusing someone for personal reasons, for example, to further one’s own career.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  5. Anonymous[419] • Disclaimer says:

    I thought Bo Xilai was a maoist and so was Zhou Yongkang, both also had countryside experiences similar to Xi Jinping, anf Bo Xilai as mayor of Chongqing was very much aligned with maoist and worked on rehabilitating the memory of the cultural revolution.

    I have viewed Xi Jinping with more suspicion because his family has a lot of wealth and he sent his daughter to Harvard. He also did not agitate for rehabilitating the cultural revolution when it would have been more politically risky for him to have done so, like Bo Xilai did.

    Xi Jinping isn’t anywhere near the leftist Bo Xilai was.

    Godfree did you communicate with Chinese who lived in Chongqing under Bo Xilai’s mayorship, what did they say then? I recall the corrupt wealthy hating him and the poor loving him. let’s not forget Bo Xilai also had anti-corruption anti-gang campaigns.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  6. Tusk says:

    I am a Party Member in China and all my family are Party members. What I think of Xi is that the life is really changing after he came to power

    I wonder if the Government would have something to say if he spoke out against the party and against Xi? Considering that people have received jail sentences (of years) for calling Xi a steamed bun, and that Winnie the Pooh is banned because poor Xi can’t handle light hearted criticism I think we all know the answers here. This is the ultimate corruption that a society faces – the inability to communicate freely and to criticise those accountable. Every Chinese citizen is under the CCP Yoke regardless of how this CCP shill wants to spin it.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  7. Svevlad says:

    Corruption exists everywhere. It’s just that it depends on what level it occurs.

    Heck, in the West, it’s legal! Lobbying, they call it… You can’t bribe a cop to forgive a ticket, but goddamn you can bribe a politician to drive the country into the ground.

    • Agree: renfro, PetrOldSack, Realist
  8. FatPanda says:
    @Muggles

    I am a US expat, and happen to live in the China Mainland, and my impression is that most Chinese believe Xi Jinping is doing a great job. What do you care really? Do you have any dogs in this race?

    Talk about propaganda. Tell me then whom are the following:

    Falun Gong
    Shen Yun
    Epoch Times
    New Tang Dynasty
    China Uncensored

    There is no doubt in my mind China is a threat to the hegemony of the West. I definitely prefer Western civilization. But if forced to choose between Chung Kuo and Babel 2.0, I’ll take the former every time.

    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
    , @Escher
  9. @FatPanda

    I think we both got it from the same source.

  10. @Muggles

    It’s not often someone gets so many things wrong in such a tight space. Congratulations.

    I’ve published at least six books, none about China, my bio is all over the place, and I run a business in under my own name.

    If you want accurate information about China, stilted prose is inevitable. Real writers, professionals, are paid to lie about China. Anyone who tries to tell the truth is shunned, not only by our mainstream media, but by the PRC, which prefers to let its accomplishments speak for themselves.

    I estimate that, since 1950, we taxpayers have spent $100 billion creating and disseminating lies about China–$1.5 billion annually. Money well spent, if you’re in the top 1%, because it convinces the masses that, in Margaret Thatcher’s words, there is no alternative to our failing system.

    CIA Director William Casey[1] confirmed this when he told President Reagan in 1981, “We’ll know our disinformation campaign has worked when everything the American public believes is false.” Carl Bernstein[2], of Watergate fame, revealed that four hundred journalists had ‘secretly carried out assignments for the Central Intelligence Agency.’ All major US media outlets cooperated, he said, including ABC, NBC, AP, UPI, Reuters, Newsweek, Hearst, the Miami Herald, and the New York Herald‑Tribune. Udo Ulfkotte[3], Editor of Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, says that no significant European journalist, including himself, was free of CIA influence. Singapore’s Lee Kwan Yew[4] outlined the consequences:

    The Philippines press enjoys all the freedoms of the US system but fails the people: a wildly partisan press helped Philippines politicians flood the marketplace of ideas with junk and confuse and befuddle the people so that they could not see what their vital interests were in a developing country. And, because vital issues like economic growth and equitable distribution were seldom discussed, they were never tackled and the democratic system malfunctioned. Look at Taiwan and South Korea: their free press runs rampant and corruption runs riot. The critic itself is corrupt yet the theory is, if you have a free press, corruption disappears. Now I’m telling you, that’s not true. Freedom of the press, freedom of news critics, must be subordinated to the overriding needs of the integrity of Singapore and to the primacy of purpose of an elected government.

    Says Ann Lee[5], “

    A reporter and friend of Michael Massing[6] who worked at the Beijing office of The Wall Street Journal told him that the editors in Washington regularly changed material information and opinions in his articles. Given the twelve-hour time difference, by the time his stories went to press in the West, the editors had replaced all the Chinese interviews with statements from American talking heads who work at think tanks promoting anti-China perspectives.”

    The weird result of this enormous, expensive effort is that, while we were busy lying to ourselves about China, the Chinese were busy eating our lunch, and now it’s too late. By 2021 every Chinese will have a home, a job, plenty of food, education, safe streets, health- and old age care. 300,000,000 urban Chinese will have more net worth and disposable income than the average American, their mothers and infants will be less likely to die in childbirth, their children will graduate from high school three years ahead of American kids and live longer, healthier lives and there will be more drug addicts, suicides and executions, more homeless, poor, hungry and imprisoned people in America than in China.

    What’s more, they’ll be ahead of us in science and technology–they’re already ahead in math, chemistry, engineering and computer science–because they have 10x more geniuses and spend 3x more on R&D than we do.

    They pulled it off because rubes like you believed the bs you read in our media and insulted anyone who tried to tell you the truth. Congratulations.


    ____________________________________________________________
    [1] A direct quote, provided and authenticated by Barbara Honegger, White House Policy Analyst and Special Assistant to the Assistant to the President for Domestic Policy in the first Reagan Administration, 1981–83, who was present at the briefing and confirmed it with other witnesses.
    [2] “The CIA and the Media: How America’s Most Powerful News Media Worked Hand in Glove with the Central Intelligence Agency and Why the Church Committee Covered It Up.” Carl Bernstein. Rolling Stone, 1977.
    [3] Gekaufte Journalisten (Bought Journalists), Udo Ulfkotte. Kopp Verlag. 2014. The English language edition, Journalists For Hire: How The CIA Buys The News, has been suppressed.
    [4] A Third World Perspective on the Press. RH Lee Kwan Yew, Prime Minister of Singapore. C-SPAN, APRIL 14, 1988
    [5] What the U.S. Can Learn from China: An Open-Minded Guide to Treating Our Greatest Competitor as Our Greatest Teacher, by Ann Lee, 2012
    [6] Editor of The Columbia Journalism Review.

    • Replies: @d dan
    , @Pop Warner
  11. @SteveK9

    There are several mechanisms.

    The first is to do what Confucian states are always supposed to do: recruit your brightest sparks, promote the most honest, competent of them until the topmost are the very best you’ve got. As its track record demonstrates, the current dynasty has earned everyone’s trust by doing that consistently.

    The next step is making the process transparent: publish the rules, put an accountable person in charge of the process–someone with a great deal to lose if they’re perceived as being unfair or dishonest (interestingly, Rome’s Chief Censor was also such a person) and China’s current censor is one of the most admired people in the country.

    Then, have a transparent appeals process so that everyone can watch issues being thrashed out.

    It’s a human and therefore, imperfect, process but people don’t expect perfection of their leaders, just best efforts–and that’s what the PRC delivers.

  12. @Anonymous

    Bo was very popular in Chongqing and people still point to the trees he planted and to the rapid progress they made under his administration.

    But that is a sine qua non in Chinese government. Even someone as high born as Bo can only hope for advancement if they show dramatic, tangible progress in their area of responsibility.

    I suspect from his profile that Bo was a high functioning sociopath whose birth allowed him to bypass many of the filters in the system.

    He is often spoken of as a ‘rival’ of Xi Jinping, but that is simply a Western projection. China’s elite knew about Bo’s liabilities for decades and one of the reasons Xi got the nod was that he ranked as high as Bo socially. Do you remember how Xi ‘disappeared’ for ten days following his promotion to the Peacock Throne? He was meeting with his and Bo’s peers–their age cohort–to get their blessing on the cleanup he had planned.

  13. @Tusk

    Nobody has suffered from calling Xi a steamed bun.

    However, Chinese don’t call their leaders names because their relationship to officials is entirely different from our (Roman) relationship. Martin Jacques explains it well:

    The Chinese state enjoys much greater legitimacy than any Western state. The Chinese treat the state with a reverence and respect that is more or less unknown in the West; and the reason clearly has nothing to do with democracy. In other words, a state’s legitimacy cannot be reduced to the existence or otherwise of democracy: on the contrary, democracy is not necessarily the most important factor in a state’s legitimacy and may, as in the case of China, be relatively unimportant. The underlying reason for the legitimacy of the Chinese state is that, as discussed earlier, it is seen by the people as the embodiment and guardian of Chinese civilization, enjoying, as a consequence, something akin to a spiritual significance. It follows that what would undermine the legitimacy of a government, the present one included, is a threat to the country’s unity. The attitude of the Chinese towards the state, thus, is very different to that of Westerners. For the latter, the state is an outsider, a stranger, even an interloper, whose presence should, as far as possible, be limited and confined. This is most obviously the case in the United States, with those who identify with the Tea Party, for example, regarding the state as an alien body, but even in Europe it is viewed with varying degrees of suspicion. In China, in contrast, the state and society are seen as on the same side and part of the same endeavour: the state enjoys the status of an intimate and is treated like a member of the family, not just any member but the head of the family – the patriarch himself. We can only understand the immense authority of the Chinese state in these terms, an authority which has been reinforced by the fact that, unlike in the West, it has had no serious rivals for over a millennium.

    • Replies: @Tusk
  14. klcTan says:
    @Muggles

    Jeff J Brown has spoken to Godfree and the video is on youtube. I have seen the video myself.

    Godfree stays in ChiangMai, Thailand.

    • Replies: @Alden
  15. d dan says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    “The weird result of this enormous, expensive effort is that, while we were busy lying to ourselves about China…”

    At this stage, any one who still believes in the western propaganda about China is simply too brain-washed and not too smart for any cure. Excuse me, I should say “too dumb for any cure”.

    For example, Nathan Rich’s recent video shows how media biased reporting of Hong Kong compare with Ukraine riots. The contrast can’t be anymore stark:

  16. @Tusk

    “Radio Free Asia reports….”. RFA is a US Government propaganda outlet. 100% WMD, 24×7.

    • Replies: @Ber
    , @Tusk
  17. Ber says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Here is a good analysis of how the main stream media (MSM) gang up to give propaganda, and how I wish they have objective comments about China or any country they do not like.

    All these so-called anti communist slant against countries, I suspect, have its origins in the Vatican.People seem to forget that they should bear false witness……

  18. Erebus says:
    @peterAUS

    Are you sharing the 10′ of 1″ pipe through which you view the world with Muggles? Are you aware that Muggles did nothing but add a few more feet to it?

    People view the world through narratives, and the value of a narrative lies only in how closely it follows and “explains” the widest possible array of empirical facts. Muggles’ ignores the vast majority – perhaps even all – of the facts.

    Ergo, it renders neither yourself nor your readers any value to champion it. Why make the effort to propagate such an obvious failure? Have you never wondered why you lack the dignity and common sense to desist from promoting something whereof you would more usefully remain silent? Are you even aware of the shortfall?

  19. Tusk says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    And anything the Chinese government puts out is 100% propaganda as well.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  20. Anon[279] • Disclaimer says:

    Corrupt Chinese have practically taken over the US West Coast and Northeast. There isn’t anywhere you could go in LA, Bay Area or Seattle without encountering mandarin speaking people. 99.9% Chinese nationals in the US are corrupt. With a nominal per capita GDP of $8,600, the only people who could afford to emigrate or send their children abroad for education are the rich, and China is so corrupt, no one can get rich without being corrupt, either by taking bribes or giving them. These are the corrupt factory owners who leave behind polluted rivers and air for their countrymen to die from while they escape to greener pastures with their family, and the government officials they bribed to pollute at will.

    The New York Times exposed some of them a few years back, it’s only gotten worse since:
    https://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/16/world/asia/china-hunts-fugitives-accused-of-corruption-many-in-us.html
    They are taking full advantage of the lack of extradition treaty btwn US and China.

    They are bribing the US congress to end the per country cap on EB5 visas, where 80% of applicants are corrupt Chinese. The House passed the HR 1044 bill a few months ago scrapping the H1b cap for India and EB5 cap for China. Now Senator Mike Lee (R-UT) is trying to get the same bill passed in the Senate. Chuck Grassley and Diane Feinstein tried to kill off the EB5 a few times, but Trump and SIL wouldn’t let them. The Kushner family relies on EB5 money for their real estate development.

    EB5 is the #1 get out of jail on the cheap card for corrupt Chinese. Many are now buying homes in the US and letting their high school and college age children live in those houses, sometimes 16 year olds who could barely speak English living in million dollar homes by themselves, attending our local high schools for free.

    I know of a woman from China in my area who works for JP Morgan, who handles all rich clients from China. It wouldn’t surprise me one bit if the FBI shows up at her house one day and walks her out in handcuffs, for helping rich Chinese launder their money in the US. The US needs to deport every single last one of these disgusting corrupt pigs to let them go back to China and face trial.

    • Agree: Alden
    • Replies: @anonymous
  21. Ruckus says:

    Curious to see the author responding 6 times now (in only 20 posts) to commentors. Aren’t the new site rules against this? It’s a little off-putting to see an article author respond at all, not to mention that it buttresses Muggles’s assertions.

    inb4 Godfree’s reply, lolz

  22. Anon[279] • Disclaimer says:

    China is now detaining family members of corrupt officials who return to China with US passports to lure the corrupt husband/father back to China:
    https://www.facebook.com/ZeroHedge/posts/china-kidnaps-fugitives-american-wife-holds-hostage-in-secret-black-jail-httpsww/1929804460430049/

    Good for them. They need to work out a treaty with all countries to return their fugitives.

  23. renfro says:

    I have no reason to doubt Roberts.
    Years ago I read a news report on the execution of a Chinese manufacturing official who was bribed into buying some cheaper ingredient, I think it was, that turned out to sicken or poison people.
    Maybe Roberts remembers that.

    Some executions or long prison terms for the corrupt in the US would be a good thing.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  24. Alden says:
    @klcTan

    Isn’t Chaing Mai the headquarters of the Asian opinion heroin trade?

    • Replies: @Ahphui
    , @Vidi
  25. aandrews says:

    Wow, the scale of the corruption…kinda explains all the bizarrely rich ChiComs that took a powder to Vancouver, BC.

    • Replies: @Alden
  26. Anon[279] • Disclaimer says:
    @d dan

    You are right the US is also very corrupt. The book Tailspin – The People and Forces Behind America’s Fifty Year Fall by Steven Brill is a great read. America is destroyed by its effed up laws, mostly crafted by Jewish lawyers, who basically built corruption into laws sanctioned by the Supreme Court through cases like Citizens United and Super PAC.

    This country is destroyed by (((lawyers))). As Niall Ferguson said, we no longer have the rule of law, we have the rule of (((lawyers))).

    Germany and the Scandinavian countries would consider our campaign financing and lobbying industry as corruption on a mass scale. Hitler lost the battle of WWII but won the war for Germany by ridding them of the Jews, until Merkel the idiot came along but that’s another story.

  27. peterAUS says:
    @peterAUS

    Author’s “remuneration” coming from the same/similar fund?!
    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/09/23/opinions/gladys-liu-china-australia-opinion-intl-hnk/index.html

    United Front Work Department of the Chinese Communist Party, that is.

    As

    ….The United Front, which is supported by considerable resources and a vast bureaucratic operation, was called one of his “magical weapons” by Chinese President Xi Jinping in September 2014. One of the objectives is to co-opt ethnic Chinese individuals and organizations in foreign countries…

    and

    ….Xi has delivered multiple speeches and made it formal policy to demand loyalty and commitment from diasporas who the Party refers to as the “sons and daughters” of China. The United Front is the apparatus of choice.

    and

    ….In Australia, the majority of Chinese-language press are owned by entities with at least partial links to Beijing.

    Now, that line of thought could go even further in this pub………. but, let’s skip that, for the moment.

    Anyway, a good gig for sure.

    • Replies: @Erebus
  28. anonymous[159] • Disclaimer says:

    I had a roommate in college who was from China. He pretty much said that if you know people in the government or have money you could get away with a lot. One of his parents was a customs official, and so he would talk about different things he planned on smuggling to China when he returned with no worries. This was in the late 90’s, though.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  29. Realist says:
    @d dan

    At this stage, any one who still believes in the western propaganda about China is simply too brain-washed and not too smart for any cure. Excuse me, I should say “too dumb for any cure”.

    Exactly right.

    And speaking of media bias, Gordon Chang is one of the worst US anti-China propagandist there is…he is never right.

  30. Realist says:

    No country can hold a candle to the US for corruption…lying, greed, hypocrisy or hegemony.

    • Replies: @bike-anarkist
    , @Ber
  31. onebornfree says: • Website

    The naivete displayed in this article concerning the unavoidable, true, core, fundamental nature of all governments everywhere,[past present, or future], is, sadly, very, very common in both East, West and all points between.

    Reality fact: All governments are 100% corrupt, all the time.

    Its impossible for them to be anything else, given the sources of their entirely unearned income.[see first quote below].

    To make an exception in the case of modern China succeeds only in highlighting the extreme naivete and gullibility of the articles author. Either that [naivete/gullibility], or the author is just another communist party hack who has no idea [or doesn’t care] about the extreme danger to all humanity that the communist “ideology” represents, and in particular, has zero idea about how centralized, top down economic systems all inevitably must “work”, and what inevitably must/will happen to majority of the population in a country that enforces the idiotic, anti- free market, top-down economic policies of any of the various brands of collectivism, be those policies be labelled “communism”, “fascism” ,”nationalism”, “democratic socialism”, or whatever. Hint: it’s called “extreme poverty and enslavement”.

    Even the historical record of the 20th century vis a vis all forms of collectivism, [including that of Chinas’ “great leap forward”, is consistently ignored/ covered up.[ “That was then, this is now”!]

    In “defense” of this author, I’ll just remind myself that the very same false assumptions concerning the true nature of all governments are at the core of almost every Unz.com article I’ve read here in the last 6 months since I started reading this site. Indeed, the exact same false assumptions concerning the true nature of all governments are consistently evident in the articles by the sites owner, Ron Unz. Recently, I even experienced the pleasure of being banned by one author here [A. Karlin], for pointing out that his own revered “nationalism” was just another brand of socialism.

    And so it goes….. :

    “Because they are all ultimately funded via both direct and indirect theft [taxes], and counterfeiting [via central bank monopolies], all governments are essentially, at their very cores, 100% corrupt criminal scams which cannot be “reformed”,”improved”, nor “limited” in scope, simply because of their innate criminal nature.” onebornfree

    “Taking the State wherever found, striking into its history at any point, one sees no way to differentiate the activities of its founders, administrators and beneficiaries from those of a professional-criminal class.” Albert J. Nock

    “Why should any self-respecting citizen endorse an institution grounded on thievery? For that is what one does when one votes. If it be argued that we must let bygones be bygones, see what can be done toward cleaning up the institution of the State so that it might be useful in the maintenance of orderly existence, the answer is that it cannot be done; you cannot clean up a brothel and yet leave the business intact. We have been voting for one “good government” after another, and what have we got?”
    Frank Chodorov, Out of Step (1962)

    “Government is a disease masquerading as its own cure.” Robert LeFevre

    Regards, onebornfree

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @d dan
  32. nsa says:
    @d dan

    “…..media biased Hong Kong reporting….”
    How would American cops react to punks tossing Molotov Cocktails at them? Arson is a felony but there would be no need for a trial……just a coroner.

  33. Kal says:

    @Godfree Robertson, What do you think the Chinese diaspora especially in Canada, U.S., and Australia do? The ones that hold foreign passports I mean. And my experience with Chinese people is they largely dislike the government, but have an extreme aggressive nationalism for their country which only manifests when a 外国人 says something. Because as far as I can tell Chinese rush to get out of China and you yourself don’t seem to live there either. I personally don’t doubt your claims that China will be better off than America, but why is there still a lot of emigration? Another question are you aware of any attempts or plans to fix the massive pollution problem? look forward from hearing back from you.

  34. melpol says:

    My former employer had no use for corruption, even a paperclip was accounted for due to the office spy. We had only 20 employees and nobody dared badmouth the boss. My job was terminated when the office spy reported me taking home paper cups from the water fountain. My boss received his jobs from the local government by bribing a few politicians. But he demanded honesty from his staff.

  35. Anonymous[683] • Disclaimer says:
    @onebornfree

    Reality fact: All you (((LoLbertarians))) are 100% pedo, all the time.

    “In short, we must face the fact that the purely free society will have a flourishing free market in children.” -Murray Rothbard (1926-1995) was the dean of the Austrian School of economics, a founder of lolbertarianism

  36. @Tusk

    If propaganda is information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view, then the PRC doesn’t put much out. 80% of Chinese trust it, compared to the 30% of us who trust our media.

    And remember, the Chinese are smarter, better educated and more widely traveled than us.

  37. @FatPanda

    “What do you care really? Do you have any dogs in this race?”

    He is offering thoughts on an article posted on an American website. Perhaps as an expat living in China you’ve become too accustomed to only viewing “approved” opinions.

  38. I do find watching a presumably white guy, who’s shtick is a weekly shilling for a foreign country, whining about treason particularly amusing.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  39. Anon[421] • Disclaimer says:

    Another drawn out piece from the guy who could not get rich in the capitalist usa and lives the good life in bang-cock thailand on social. But, whatever, china is for the chinese and not for the anglo saxons; he is not allowed in but worships from afar. My 77 years as a participant observer tell me that corruption and criminality are endemic to any large human society so, therefore, utopianism is a pipe dream.

    https://www.theepochtimes.com/the-china-miracle-is-over_3097301.html

    • Replies: @d dan
    , @Alden
  40. @d dan

    I’m sure I heard him say in that video about Ukraine “the far right protesters were anti EU” very clearly, at the start of the Vice reportage from Kiev he was showing. Surely they were anti-Russian and pro EU.

  41. There is nothing admirable about Chingchong’s Red Circus. They “fight corruption” without due process and zero rights for “citizens.”

    • Replies: @denk
    , @Vidi
  42. Yesterday I went to YouTube and asked for videos on China, before 1949 and got a German one on China around 1940.

    Then I asked for videos around the founding of the PRC and I got one of China in 1964. (Which I chose because it so happens, I was in China in 1964.)

    Then I watched a video about modern Chinese infrastructure projects.

    I think anyone looking at those three in succession would have to feel a good deal of respect for the CCP, and the Chinese people.

    &BTW, the video on 1964 corresponded very well with what I remembered.

  43. zogborg says:

    Asia would’ve been much better off had Imperial Japan won the war. The Chinese are not meant to be leaders, even in Asia, they are better off being conquered by more efficient, less degenerate, and more honourable people. Over a hundred years ago was a beautiful time when Russia and Japan were plotting partitions of Chinese territory between themselves, right after the Russo-Japanese war ended.

    • LOL: Alfred
    • Troll: d dan
    • Replies: @Ber
  44. China lies about its space program. China lies about its weapons. China lies about it population. But then, looking at the USSR during its prime, it was full of lies also. What else can a communists do but lie?

  45. zogborg says:

    It’s hilarious seeing all these ultra-nationalist Chinese living in Western countries, ever so touchy about foreign criticism about their polluted slave labor camp masquerading as a nation. If you love Zhongguo so much go back to your shithole. The Japanese treated the Chinese the way they deserved to be treated between 1937 and 1945.

  46. zogborg says:
    @Dennis Gannon

    At leas the USSR didn’t sellout their own citizens as slave labor to global corporations…
    China is a giant brothel state with its leaders pimping out their citizens as they take their ill-gotten wealth and flee to the West haha. China is a fucking joke and it needs to be called out for what it really is. The US should call China’s bluff and recognize Taiwan as independent, lets see if the Chinese are as badass as they claim they are lol

  47. Emslander says:

    I have absolutely no independent knowledge about China, but your depiction of the US press as wholly bought and paid for by corporate revenues (not profits because such payments are certainly expenses deductible from revenues for tax purposes) is quite believable.

    See how we go out and focus from time to time on a nation about which we can have no personal information because of its relative remoteness. The press then creates a narrative to support the interests of the ruling elite. The latest is Ukraine. Apparently, the people have had enough curiosity to have learned the actualities of Russia.

    Ukraine! How has it suddenly become the mirror of US politics? It’s just a nice convenient mirror. We’ve overthrown its duly elected governments, demanded the firing of prosecutors (?!) and are now using it to assault a president. Georgia, Lithuania, Afghanistan, Iraq, Turkey, etc. have all had their turn. At some point we start bombing their cities.

    • Replies: @Alfred
  48. We need this in every country. Its really really bad and the difference between rich and poor countries are the amounts involved. Like the most corrupt countries everyone’s corrupt but the sums only add up to just one corruption scandal like in the US. But in the US they hide behind corporations. The corporations go under but the people who enabled it rarely face any justice. And usually its a fall guy.

  49. Thanks for an informative article, shining light in places where our establishment, deep state, and their fake news MSM lackeys don’t want us looking.

    This is particularly apropos in a time when our current president – no slouch at corruption himself – is under threat of impeachment for suggesting that Ukrainians investigate: (1) why the coke head, neer-do-well, son of Joe Biden, the last US vice president, was raking in $600,000 for a no show job at a corrupt Ukrainian energy firm; and (2) why the Ukrainian prosecutor who had begun investigating that firm was abruptly fired after Joe Biden expressed his displeasure and apparently orchestrated a large reduction in the flow of money from the USA’s government to the Ukraine’s.

  50. Agent76 says:

    June 8, 2019 China-Russia Partnership Threatens US Global Hegemony

    Big power rivalry is heading into very dangerous waters. The rise of China as an economic and military superpower is threatening the global hegemony of the United States. Russia has been pushed into an increasingly tighter relationship with China to balance the attempts by the West to isolate it.

    https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2019/06/china-russia-partnership-threatens-us-global-hegemony.html

    Sep 2, 2019 Bernie Sanders Gets Fooled By China Propaganda

    Bernie Sanders buys into Chinese Communist Party propaganda. The G7 defends Hong Kong. Chaos reigns at China’s first Costco.

  51. @Godfree Roberts

    In the late 40s and 50s our diplomats and intelligence agents known as the China Hands helped bring Mao to power. So you’re welcome, I guess?

  52. anonymous[373] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    @ Anon 279.. another interpretation: the West Coast and Northeast Chinese have been corrupted sufficiently to compete for an elected position in the USA? The platforms of “change” and “great again” have not worked, so maybe an inverted platform “elect me i am totally corrupt and I will staff the government only with corrupt people” would actually produce “great again change”? When everyone in government is corrupt, the competing greed, might keep each other honest)?

  53. peterAUS says:
    @MikeatMikedotMike

    Yep.
    Pays bills, though. A man has to make a living, somehow.
    And, a white guy among “slant eyes”.
    Peculiar, but understandable.

  54. Alfred says:
    @Emslander

    I don’t think the Russians would allow the USA to bomb Ukraine. Their anti-aircraft missile systems are just across the border and can make all of Ukraine a no-fly zone.

    A few missiles would destroy all the runways of NATO. Forget about any USN aircraft-carrier getting within thousands of kilometers.

  55. d dan says:
    @onebornfree

    “All governments are 100% corrupt, all the time.”

    This is too extreme a statement. You obviously don’t know much about Chinese history (or other cultures’ history). For examples, there are records of government officials who died poorer than the peoples that they ruled over.

    “To make an exception in the case of modern China succeeds only in highlighting the extreme naivete and gullibility of the articles author. ”

    Again, too extreme a statement. The author is claiming that China is fighting corruption differently and more effectively than western people give credit to.

    To think freely, I would suggest you throw away all labels (socialists, communists, marxists, capitalists, …) and ideologies. Concentrate in discussing the issues and ideas at hand.

    • Replies: @Art
  56. d dan says:
    @Dennis Gannon

    “What else can a communists do but lie?”

    What about lifting a billion people out of poverty – the largest one in human history?

    • Agree: Godfree Roberts
  57. @Dennis Gannon

    What else can a communists do but lie?

    Build high-speed rail.

  58. Ron Unz says:
    @Dennis Gannon

    China lies about its space program. China lies about its weapons. China lies about it population. But then, looking at the USSR during its prime, it was full of lies also. What else can a communists do but lie?

    LOL…

    http://www.unz.com/runz/chinas-rise-americas-fall/

  59. d dan says:
    @Anon

    “…china is for the chinese and not for the anglo saxons…”

    On the contrary, many foreigners are working and grow rich in China. For example, US corporations alone have make trillions out of China in the past few decades.

    • Replies: @zogborg
  60. zogborg says:
    @d dan

    Are you ethnically Chinese? If not I see no reason why a non-Chinese is shilling so hard for one of the most targeted and disliked countries in the world.

  61. @d dan

    The British-cum-Yankee love and boast of their (((Rule of Law))) is ostensibly Talmudic. Cf. Kritarchy

    Shalom motherfuckers!

    [MORE]

  62. bluedog says:
    @Muggles

    After reading your post I have a very good idea of who the troll is,and that’s the one doing all the finger pointing ,which is an old trick perfected long ago.!!

  63. Whether Godfree Roberts is a CCP member is of no consequence. What is of consequence is our Democratic/capitalist society, where an elected official is allowed to enter office with a net worth of $100k and exit office with a net worh of $50 million ala, CLINTONS, OBAMAS and many others. The nepotism spotlighted by the Bidens would get Creepy Joe strangled, not hanged. This is the lesson we can learn from China. In America we celebrate corruption and treat the thieves like royalty, while we belittle and laugh at China. Tell me why. Where’s are logic.
    China has lifted a billion of its citizens from poverty in 50 years while we’re doing the opposite.

  64. @Muggles

    China’s prisons are not like ours. Where’s your first hand knowledge. Except for the most serious crimes China re-educates, ours are privatized prisons for the purpose of slave labor. No rehabilitation.
    China’s population 1.3 billion. Incarcerated: 1.7 million. % of pop. in prison .0013%
    America’s population 325 million. Incarcerated: 2.2 million. % of population in prison: .0068%.
    That’s 5x’s the Chinese rate of incareration. Very few are of the political class.
    Transfer our House of Representative to China and all but an handful would be in prison. What’s that tell you, troll?

    • Replies: @Alden
    , @Normie-American
  65. @d dan

    PS

    The concept of “Extraterritoriality” (the state of being exempted from the jurisdiction of local law) is also ostensibly Talmudic and in keeping with the concept of “Jewish Exceptionalism”.

    It was used by the (((Brits))) to exempt their soldiers and citizens from local Chinese law after they won the First Opium War. Cf. Unequal Treaty.

    Moreover, the term “American Exceptionalism” didn’t really enter the lexicon until the 1990s when the Jews had absolute power and control of the USA.

    In other words, America is exceptional only because exceptional Jews rule over it. Duh!

  66. Art says:
    @d dan

    Again, too extreme a statement. The author is claiming that China is fighting corruption differently and more effectively than western people give credit to.

    I think the author is dreaming. The Chinese love money to much. Who is going to oversee the overseers? Corruption will creep in – period. It is in their culture. Is Xi a self hating Chinese?

    They are still basically dishonest – claiming superiority, they steal everything they can from the West. They persist in making and selling shoddy goods – they do not honor intellectual property.

    p..s. The Chinese and the Jews are cut from the same sack cloth.

    • Agree: Ilyana_Rozumova
    • Replies: @Anon
    , @denk
  67. Ber says:
    @Realist

    You forgot “we lie, we cheat, we steal…”Pompeo who also forgot to say that we kill.

    • Replies: @Realist
  68. Ber says:
    @zogborg

    Bertrand Russell”s “The problems of China” exposes Japan’s words(morals), compared to Chinese, not worth the paper it is written on.

    • Replies: @zogborg
  69. Erebus says:
    @peterAUS

    Author’s “remuneration” coming from the same/similar fund?!

    If it is, at least his employer is getting his money’s worth. Your employer is not.

  70. zogborg says:
    @Ber

    You fucking idiot. Bertrand Russel was a British imperialist who disliked Japan because Japan was the only Asian country that was modernized and independent, while he liked China because China was nothing but a Western whore since the Opium Wars. Don’t forget which Asian country demolished the old European colonial system in Asia, it was Imperial Japan not weak submissive China. China has always sold out and thrown its Asian neighbors under the bus.

    • LOL: MAOWASAYALI
    • Replies: @MAOWASAYALI
    , @Ber
    , @denk
    , @Vidi
  71. Anon[291] • Disclaimer says:

    The real life Smaug has been found and he lives in China. This is the former mayor of Ganzhou:

    It appears he’ll be executed. Where are his wife and kids? Probably living the good life in the US. They should be extradited to face trial and jail time in China.

    • Replies: @Alden
  72. Anon[291] • Disclaimer says:
    @Art

    p..s. The Chinese and the Jews are cut from the same sack cloth.

    Not quite. Both love money and are dishonest, but Jews also love power, the Chinese not so much. Jews are also a lot more unctuous, ideological, narcissistic, oversensitive, hypocritical, cunning and manipulative.

    • Replies: @Anon
  73. Anon[291] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    Jews are also a lot more sexually deviant and depraved.

    On the plus side Jews have a better sense of humor and are more creative. The Chinese have better food but that could just be a matter of taste.

    Jews are right brain(loquacious), Chinese are left brain(mathy).

  74. @zogborg

    Haven’t you heard? Japs are “Honorary Aryans.”

    • Replies: @zogborg
    , @denk
  75. zogborg says:
    @MAOWASAYALI

    Japan is the only Asian country that came closest to kicking out Anglo-American imperialism from the Pacific Rim. China on the other hand long since sold its soul to the Zionists. In the 20th century, China twice sided with Zionist US/UK against genuinely independent great powers, first against Imperial Japan and later against USSR during Cold War after Kissinger and Nixon’s visits.

  76. Ber says:
    @zogborg

    Just ONE example will do. Does this look like liberating/demolishing old colonial system in Asia?

    https://allthatsinteresting.com/unit-731

    • Replies: @zogborg
  77. Ahphui says:
    @Alden

    Anon 257 queried:
    > Isn’t Chiang Mai the headquarters of the Asian opinion [opium] heroin trade?

    Yes, it was during and after the Vietnam War. The CIA used to rent CM’s largest office building. The trade has since moved to Afghanistan.

  78. Realist says:
    @Ber

    You forgot “we lie, we cheat, we steal…”Pompeo who also forgot to say that we kill.

    It’s hard to remember all the evil this country is responsible for.

  79. zogborg says:
    @Ber

    Southeast Asians are grateful to Japan for kicking out the British French Dutch. What the fuck was China doing at the time? Oh right they were on the side of the Anglo-Americans trying to bring down Japan.

  80. denk says:
    @Art

    * Who is going to oversee the overseers? *

    Exactly !
    who’d discipline that self appointed ‘world cop’ ?

    https://sites.evergreen.edu/zoltan/interventions/

    http://us-uk-interventions.org/

  81. denk says:
    @zogborg

    China was nothing but a Western whore since the Opium Wars.

    who fought the british Indian jawans in 1962,

    pushed back the fukus led UN posse from Korea in 1950,

    Helped VN drove out the French at Dien Bien Fu,
    Then helped them kick out the murikkanos in 1975..?

    YOu’r a real fucktard !

    • Replies: @zogborg
    , @Parbes
  82. denk says:
    @MAOWASAYALI

    *Haven’t you heard? Japs are “Honorary Aryans.”*

    and the jps have been paying for that ‘honor’ [sic] ever since…

    George Bush …
    ‘JP is our ATM, here’s the beautiful part , we dont even need a pin number’

    hehehhe

  83. denk says:
    @Sick of Orcs

    *There is nothing admirable about Chingchong’s Red Circus. They “fight corruption” without due process and zero rights for “citizens.”*

    I’ve news for you sonny…
    [[FIVE Liars]]] ‘citizens’ are nuthin but ‘useless eaters’ in the eyes of their ptb, .

    Exhibit 1..

    What kind of ‘govn’ would finger their own ‘citizens’, [read useless eaters] to be liquidated by a friendly dictator ?

    https://archive.commondreams.org/view/022500-104.htm

  84. Alden says:
    @aandrews

    The Chinese conquered Vancouver, and are almost finished with Victoria. In 50 years they’ll be marching on Quebec, then Nova Scotia and the off shore islands.

    • Replies: @denk
    , @MAOWASAYALI
  85. Alden says:
    @Anon

    I saw that. 13.5 tons of gold. Where did he get it? Probably from family hoards of people he extorted or murdered. Could be a family dynasty thing. Grandpa was a commissar in the late 40s and seized the hoards of the evil capitalist landlord bourgeoisie the Reds overthrew.

  86. denk says:
    @zogborg

    hey asshole..

    are you saying China invaded Jp in ww2 ?

  87. Alden says:
    @the grand wazoo

    American prisoners come from a demographic that can’t be rehabilitated. Chinese prisoners are intelligent enough to pretend to conform to the rehabilitation.

    Both Chinese and American African prisoners get out and continue their criminal ways.

    But rehabilitation is a much nicer word. Rehabilitation Home sounds sooo much nicer than prison doesn’t it?

  88. zogborg says:
    @denk

    If the Indians were British pawns, why did the Soviets favor India over China? And the USSR was the main contribution to Vietnam’s war effort. Not to mention China backstabbing Vietnam in 1979. Haha the Korean War was the only time in history China took a stand against Anglos. Every other time you guys sold out hard. In the 1970s and 80s, China was a “communist” country on the U.S. side against USSR, what a joke…
    Anyway Imperial Japan did far more than China at any time in history to kick out Western imperialism.

    • Replies: @denk
    , @denk
    , @Vidi
  89. Alden says:
    @Anon

    Epoch Times is run by over seas Taiwanese who want to keep Taiwan a separate nation protected by the US. Panda Express is a major source of funds.

    • Replies: @Anon
  90. denk says:

    If the Indians were British pawns, why did the Soviets favor India over China?

    asshole..
    LIke I say, Indians are masters of playing both sides, both the USSR, FUKUS support India in 1962.

  91. denk says:
    @zogborg

    Anyway Imperial Japan did far more than China at any time in history to kick out Western imperialism.

    LIke so….. ?

  92. Escher says:
    @FatPanda

    From your English, you’re probably a Chinese “American” or “Canadian”, or a paid troll from unit 666 or whatever it is called now.

  93. denk says:
    @zogborg

    Not to mention China backstabbing Vietnam in 1979

    asshole..
    No sooner than China helped VN to kick up the murikkanos when Hanoi immediately jump Ship over to USSR right after the Moscow/Beijing split….cuz VN was betting on the much stronger USSR over the Chinese.

    so who’s the one backstabbing ?

    LOL

    • Replies: @zogborg
  94. @zogborg

    My grandpa was accused of being a resistance fighter during the Japanese occupation. I don’t know if he was, but one day soldiers came and took him away. He never came back and my grandma was left to raise six kids on her own with the help of his sisters.

    My youngest grand aunt, in the last years of her life, would relive moments from the occupation period and start screaming and crying at the mere sight of my brother-in-law, who reminded her of the Japanese soldier who took my grandpa away.

    Stories like mine are commonplace in SEA.

    That said I don’t hate the Japanese. The war was two generations ago, its not my place to hold a grudge. My hate is reserved for imbeciles like you who whitewash our history to fit your delusions.

    • Replies: @zogborg
    , @denk
  95. denk says:
    @Alden

    sigh….

    like I say, build that gawd damed wall,
    keep the chicoms , dot heads, whatever OUT AND keep the USN IN…

    ITS A WIN WIN for murikkanos and the world,

  96. zogborg says:
    @anonymous_from_SEA

    Yeah….too bad native Malays welcomed the Japanese. You overseas Chinese are seen as parasites by the native peoples of SEA anyway.

    • Replies: @denk
  97. zogborg says:
    @denk

    First off, starting from 1968, USSR supported Vietnam. China was busy sabotaging Vietnams weapon supplies and plotting to jump to the U.S. side. If anybody plays both sides, it was China not India.
    India and Russia still have good relations today because they have consistently helped each other, while China constantly stabs all its neighbors in the back, while sucking Anglo cock. You are a brainwashed CCP bot who believes China is a perfect country that behaves with honor lol.

    • Replies: @denk
  98. denk says:
    @zogborg

    hey asshole…

    I ask you a gawd damned question….
    ‘are you saying China invaded Jp in ww2’ ?

  99. denk says:
    @anonymous_from_SEA

    asshole zogborg reeks of curry…..

    • Replies: @d dan
  100. @Alden

    Don’t exaggerate. I just did a quick search for the demographics of Metro Vancouver and note that the Chinese represent only 20.6% of the general population, followed by the English at 19.4%, followed by Scottish at 14.1%… Europeans still represent 49.3% of the overall population.

    See below charts from Wikipedia:

    Top ethnic origins in Vancouver CMA (2016)
    Chinese 499,175 20.6%
    English 470,340 19.4%
    Scottish 341,075 14.1%
    Canadian 331,205 13.7%
    Irish 275,355 11.3%
    Indian 243,135 10.1%
    German 222,025 9.2%
    French 147,835 6.1%
    Filipino 133,925. 5.5%
    Ukrainian 94,400. 5.03%

    Pan-ethnic Groups in Vancouver CMA (2016)
    Ethnic origin Population Percent
    European 1,195,185 49.3%
    East Asian 557,745 23%
    South Asian 291,005 12%
    Southeast Asian 168,075 6.9%
    Aboriginal 74,700 3.1%
    Middle Eastern 62,440 2.6%
    Latin American 34,805 1.4%
    Black 29,830 1.2%
    Other 41,780 1.7%
    Total population2,426,235 100%

    For all intents and purposes, it is the Jews who have taken over and control Vancouver and Canada–Full Stop!

    The extent to which Jews shaped the (((British Empire))) and still shape her former colonies and the USA will shock you.

    For example, did you know the first Chinese immigrants to British Columbia were men who came to “the British Colonies of Canada,” as they called British Columbia, for the Fraser Canyon Gold Rush of 1858 and a decade later to work on building the Canadian Pacific Railway?

    However, what is never told to us in our history books is this:

    Imperial Qing China did not allow immigration or emigration. One had to get a special permit from the Government in order to enter or leave China. It was only after China lost the Second Opium War that the Chinese started to leave in droves.

    Having lost the Opium Wars to the (((Brits))), China had to sign the Treaty of Peking in 1860, which demanded–here’s the punchline to the Jewish joke–mass immigration of Chinese labourers to not only Canada but America to build the railways.

    Guess who owned the railways?

    The railways were owned surreptitiously by the Rothschilds and their co-religionists–that’s who!

    Remember Canada was a British colony but America was not, and so you have to ask how the Chinese ended up in America to build the railways if the Jews didn’t control the immigration policy of the USA even way back then in the 1860s?

    For your reference, here is “Article 5” of the (((Treaty of Peking))) which opened the floodgates of Chinese emigration into North America in 1860:

    As soon as the ratifications of the treaty of 1858 shall have been exchanged, His Imperial Majesty the Emperor of China will, by decree, command the high authorities of every province to proclaim throughout their jurisdictions, that Chinese choosing to take service in the British colonies, or other parts beyond sea, are at perfect liberty to enter into engagements with British subjects for that purpose, and to ship themselves and their families on board any British vessel at any port of the open ports of China; also, that the high authorities aforesaid shall, in concert with Her Britannic Majesty’s representative in China, frame such regulations for the protection of Chinese emigrating, as above, as the circumstances of the different open ports may demand.

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: If you don’t understand what the Jews did to China with their bloody opium wars 200 years ago, you won’t understand a damn thing about the modern world.

  101. denk says:
    @zogborg

    iNDIA THE double dealer ,….

    1962
    USSR supported India, when the jawans were thrashed by PLA, nEHRU wrote to kennedy crying for help, fukus despatched an aircraft carrier to intimidate China, but Beijing wrapped up the war while the murikkanos were still on the way LOL

    iNDIA sponsored and trained the Tamil tigers while ‘helping’ the Sinhalese to fight the ‘terrorists’,

    India harbored and trained the Nepalese maoists while ‘helping’ the monarchy to fight the ‘terrorists’,

    Even today, Modi is hopping from bed to bed bet PUtin and Trump LOL

    PS
    I can understand your affinity to the jps, both are the proverbial white men’s bitches LOL

    • Replies: @zogborg
  102. zogborg says:
    @denk

    If I reek of curry, you reek of dog meat. You Chinese bring shame to all Asians with your rubbish character and culture. You’re the kind of people who eat plastic rice right? Not to mention your elites don’t even have confidence in China’s future so they all flee to Canada and California lol.

    • Replies: @denk
  103. denk says:
    @zogborg

    So you admit its India the double dealer. !

    Hmm,,,
    When all else fails, resort to Ad hominem eh ?

    ========================
    zogborg the asshole

    ‘Anyway Imperial Japan did far more than China at any time in history to kick out Western imperialism.’

    LIke so….?

    • Replies: @zogborg
  104. zogborg says:
    @denk

    I said Imperial Japan you fucking imbecile. How about Nixon and Kissinger with Mao? Or Deng Xiaoping sucking cock from both Japan and the West for foreign investment? You Chinese are shameless little insects.

    • Replies: @denk
  105. denk says:

    zogborg the asshole…

    ‘China constantly stabs all its neighbors in the back,

    All rheoterics, no substances..
    look into the mirror asshole.

    ‘ A few million dollars aid is no recompense for patronizing the ongoing civil war that has devastated our poor country. Permitting training camp for the Nepali Maoist insurgents and helping Nepal fight the Maoists at the same time is the worst form of duplicity, which the world community would not fail to take note.’

    http://web.archive.org/web/20080626014339/http://www.nepalnews.com.np/contents/englishweekly/spotlight/2005/jan/jan28/editorial.htm

    How many are aware that Prabakaran was cornered in Vadamarachchi in June 1987? How many are aware that India actually threatened Sri Lankan Government to order its troops to set him free? How many are aware that India helicoptered Prabakaran out of Sri Lanka to India? The order came from the very man that LTTE eventually blew to pieces in India itself. Why would India want to save a terrorist leader? If India had not threatened Sri Lanka to release cornered Prabakaran in 1987 thousands of lives would have been saved. There would have been no 30year conflict. India therefore, has much to account for and not a single apology has been made for what India did to a friendly neighbor.

    http://www.lankaweb.com/news/items/2017/12/09/if-india-had-not-helped-prabakaran-escape-in-june-1987there-would-be-no-may-2009/

    ”while sucking Anglo cock. ‘

    hehehhehe

    • Replies: @zogborg
    , @zogborg
  106. zogborg says:
    @denk

    Uyghurs, Tibetans, and Mongolians deserve to be free of Han Chinese oppression. I’m sure Tibetans would rather join democratic India instead.

    • Replies: @denk
  107. zogborg says:
    @denk

    China ran to Nixon/Kissinger because Soviet Union kicked your ass in 1969 war, which Mao provoked by ambushing Soviet border guards. Remember China’s support of Pol Pot and Khmer Rouge, absolute disgrace. Zhongguoren shi dongwu!

    • Replies: @denk
  108. d dan says:
    @denk

    “asshole zogborg reeks of curry…..”

    Thanks denk. Now I understand.

    • Replies: @denk
  109. Anon[134] • Disclaimer says:
    @Alden

    Stop spreading lies about Panda Express. Epoch Times is run by Falun Gong members.

  110. Ber says:
    @zogborg

    Grateful Southeast Asians? Japan to date has not really apologize for its crimes against its Asian neighbors.

    People just want to get on. If people like you want to stir up old wounds, it will be Japan that will suffer.

    • Replies: @zogborg
    , @MAOWASAYALI
  111. zogborg says:
    @Ber

    Indonesians and Vietnamese would gladly side with Japan against China. You Chinese are very unpopular in the Pacific, deal with it. You Chinese are literally committing genocide right now on Uyghurs.

    • Replies: @Ber
  112. Vidi says:
    @Sick of Orcs

    There is nothing admirable about Chingchong’s Red Circus. They “fight corruption” without due process and zero rights for “citizens.”

    Actually, there is an extensive appeal process in China. For example, just this year the Canadian Robert Lloyd Schellenberg was sentenced to death for trafficking 227 kg of meth. He originally got fifteen years in prison. But the fool appealed, and he lost very badly. (Perhaps new evidence proving his guilt turned up.)

    Death sentences for drug trafficking are not unusual in China. For example, in 2015 Huang Zhenye got capital punishment for 4.7 kg of meth. Note, for about 10 pounds of the substance. Schellenberg was caught with 227 kg of the stuff. That is over 500 pounds — a truckload. How could he possibly have thought he could get away with less than Huang?

  113. @Ber

    Agree!

    The South Koreans are still very upset and angry about the Japs kidnapping their women to be sex slaves during WWII. Cf. Protests over South Korea’s ‘comfort women’ deal with Japan

  114. Vidi says:
    @zogborg

    You fucking idiot. Bertrand Russel was a British imperialist

    The young Bertrand Russell may have been in favor of imperialism. In this he was not at all unusual; most British people liked the British Empire. The older and presumably wiser Russell was very anti-imperialist, to such an extent that in 1918 he was thrown in jail for being loudly anti-war.

    who disliked Japan because Japan was the only Asian country that was modernized and independent, while he liked China because China was nothing but a Western whore since the Opium Wars.

    No, Russell hated Japanese imperialism. He liked China better for not being an imperialist country.

    Don’t forget which Asian country demolished the old European colonial system in Asia, it was Imperial Japan not weak submissive China.

    Like the end of any dynasty, the end of the Qing dynasty was not a good time for China to do much.

    China has always sold out and thrown its Asian neighbors under the bus.

    Name one example of that happening when China had a healthy dynasty. Come on, you have thousands of years to choose from. Name examples.

    • Replies: @zogborg
  115. Vidi says:
    @Alden

    Isn’t Chaing Mai the headquarters of the Asian opinion heroin trade?

    Not any more. “In 2010, Afghanistan, as the world’s largest opium supplier, accounted for nearly 80 percent of the world’s opium, according to UN estimates.” (link).

    These days, Chiang Mai is a UNESCO Creative City. Other Creative Cities: Rome (Italy); Kobe (Japan); Montreal (Canada).

  116. zogborg says:
    @Vidi

    During the Sino-Soviet split, especially during the Cultural Revolution, late-Mao era, China sabotaged North Korea and North Vietnam because they rationally felt the USSR was a more reliable and better partner. Hell during the 70s and 80s China was practically a US client state, ironically the only “communist” state to jump to the US camp against the USSR. Don’t forget China’s absolutely disgusting support for Pol Pot in Cambodia, when they were clearly better off under rational Vietnamese occuptation instead of that nutjob.

    • Replies: @Vidi
  117. TS says:

    Might want to look up a “netuoyo” (aka Jap internet keyboard warrior incels) to see what you’re going up against:

    [MORE]

    • Replies: @TS
    , @zogborg
  118. TS says:
    @TS

    This comment is meant for, Vici, of course, and all the silly goons who think they’re replying to an Indian.

  119. zogborg says:
    @TS

    [Commenters producing endless, fairly vacuous insults are more likely to have their comments trashed.]

    Yeah except I’m not Japanese dipshit. It should be obvious by my use of English that I’m not Japanese. I am anti-China however, and it seems I’m not alone. Who the hell actually likes China unless they are getting paid to shill for that polluted totalitarian shithole.

    • Replies: @TS
  120. TS says:
    @zogborg

    [Vacuous insults are less likely to be published and too many of them gets your other comments trashed.]

  121. Vidi says:
    @zogborg

    Not to mention China backstabbing Vietnam in 1979.

    Vietnam had been invading Cambodia as far back as 1964; the incursions prompted Security Council Resolution 189 (link) which explicity said, “Deplores the incidents caused by the penetration of units of the Army of the Republic of Viet-Nam into Cambodian territory”.

    When Vietnam did it again in 1979, China decided to stop this. If you read some articles written at the time, you will see general approval in the world for the action, as China was only following United Nations policy to prevent war between nations. And the spanking of Vietnam lasted only 27 days, after Vietnam got clear warnings to stop its invasion of Cambodia. Vietnam definitely deserved the short hit, so it was not a “backstab”.

    • Replies: @zogborg
  122. zogborg says:
    @Vidi

    And so China supporting Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge was the right thing?
    I suppose China should be punished for its constant naval harassment of Vietnam and the Philippines.

    • Replies: @Vidi
  123. Vidi says:
    @zogborg

    During the Sino-Soviet split, especially during the Cultural Revolution, late-Mao era, China sabotaged North Korea

    China “sabotaged” North Korea so seriously, the two countries are strong friends today. Do you even engage your brain before posting?

    [During the Sino-Soviet split, China sabotaged] North Vietnam because [it] rationally felt the USSR was a more reliable and better partner.

    China “sabotaged” North Vietnam by supporting them against the French, and again by supporting them against the U.S. During the Vietnam War alone, China claimed to have spent $20 billion to support Ho Chi Minh and sent him 320,000 soldiers (link) — though China was then still extremely poor. This support is “sabotage”?

    Don’t forget China’s absolutely disgusting support for Pol Pot in Cambodia, when they were clearly better off under rational Vietnamese occuptation instead of that nutjob.

    Don’t forget that the U.S. supported the rise of Pol Pot. From a Reuters article (link): “Pol Pot’s chief torturer told Cambodia’s “Killing Fields” tribunal on Monday that U.S. policies in Indochina in the 1970s contributed to the rise of the Khmer Rouge.”

  124. Vidi says:
    @zogborg

    And so China supporting Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge was the right thing?

    The U.S. supported Pol Pot. From a Reuters article (link): “Pol Pot’s chief torturer told Cambodia’s “Killing Fields” tribunal on Monday that U.S. policies in Indochina in the 1970s contributed to the rise of the Khmer Rouge.”

    I suppose China should be punished for its constant naval harassment of Vietnam and the Philippines.

    Responding to a provocation is not “harassment”.

    • Replies: @Smith
  125. Smith says:

    Mr. Godfree Roberts is a chink shill, and proudly so.

    You don’t need to read what he writes, just watches what he does. The same for China.

    To this day, they will cry about american, japanese, vietnamese when they are the #1 economy of the world and #2 of the world in military spending. Communists love victimization even when they are rich and powerful.

  126. @renfro

    I wish the bankers responsible for the 2008 financial crisis were all executed. But alas, just a pipe dream.

  127. Parbes says:
    @denk

    This character “zogborg” is a neocon propaganda troll trying to drum up hatred against “the new prime enemy” China. Probably a bona fide Anglo-Zionist paid information warfare employee.

    • Replies: @zogborg
    , @Smith
    , @denk
  128. Ber says:
    @zogborg

    Re Uighur, please read this article: http://www.unz.com/article/xinjiang-update/

    Since the above article appeared, there are around 50 countries that have investigated the matter, and have come out publicly defending China’s treatment of the Uighur.

    Actual historical facts proved that the Japanese were very vicious and cruel people. Nothing you say can change this. All of these are in the public domain.

    • Replies: @zogborg
  129. Ber says:

    For those who admire the Japanese so much as well as for bringing up the involvement of the Indians,
    here is an Indian’s view of the Japs. Very disturbing reading to the end, ….you are warned.

    http://ajitvadakayil.blogspot.com/2012/10/doctor-death-shiro-ishii-emperor.html

    • Replies: @Smith
  130. zogborg says:
    @Ber

    You are referencing another article by Godless Roberts, not impressed Chinaman.
    Kazakhs have been pressuring their government to stand against China’s kidnapping of Kazakh citizens in China.

  131. zogborg says:
    @Parbes

    Typical unimaginative response. I’d love to get paid for what I do, unfortunately I’m just a free citizen expressing my opinions. China itself is a creation of Anglo-Zionists you imbecile. Kissinger and Rockefeller birthed modern-day China.

    • Replies: @Parbes
    , @denk
  132. Smith says:
    @Parbes

    But this is the same thing you say to anyone who says any bad things about China.

    There is a China defense Brigade on this board.

    • Replies: @Parbes
  133. zogborg says:

    China is trying to starve SE Asian nations by poaching on their Exclusive Economic Zones, harassing their fishing boats, drilling in other nations’ waters. CHina wants to hog all the fishing grounds and natural gas in the South CHina Sea, while SE Asian nations starve.

    • Replies: @Nonny
  134. Smith says:
    @Ber

    I like how the disturbing bit in the end is cartoony fake stuff in full colors.

    One can easily read similar stuff regarding the chinese: https://www.rfa.org/english/news/china/cannibalism-11222013104349.html

    Nothing the japs did come close to what the chinks do to their own people. And this is why SEA stand with Japan against China.

    • Replies: @zogborg
    , @denk
    , @last straw
  135. zogborg says:
    @Smith

    Thank you. It’s funny China has long since sold its soul to the likes of Kissinger and Rockefeller and now Chinese trolls try to paint their pathetic country as some brave fighter against the West lol.

    • Replies: @Smith
  136. Smith says:
    @Vidi

    The fact US supported Pol Pot doesn’t mean China didn’t support Pol Pot, US and China were ally in the Sino-Viet war in 1979, while the USSR supported Vietnam.
    https://www.quora.com/Did-Pol-Pot-support-the-Chinese-or-the-Soviets-in-the-Sino-Soviet-split

    Funny how chinks whine japanese committing muh cannibalism and genocide, yet they have no problem backing Pol Pot, and declaring Vietnamese evil and “ambitious” for fighting against him.

    Also, what “provocation” exactly? Vietnam lacks a sizeable navy to contend against chink naval activities in our own maritime territories.

    Also, make no mistake. China helps Vietnam pushing out americans so Vietnam can be a vassal to China, Vietnam disagrees, this is why China joins force with americans to fuck Vietnam.

    Every “healthy” Chinese dynasties (Qin, Han, Song, Tang, “Yuan – Mongols”, Ming, “Qing – Manchu”) have invaded Vietnam, and you chinks dare say you protect asians.

  137. Smith says:
    @zogborg

    If asians fight against China, it’s to protect imperialists.

    But if chinese fight against asians, it’s to protect Asia.

    When China speaks, they speak for the whole Asia, never mind the asians. This is actually very close to what the japanese think in the 20s-30s when they were the top dog in Asia.

    • Replies: @zogborg
  138. zogborg says:
    @Smith

    China doesn’t even try to paint itself as pan-Asian. They’re too busy showing off how much they are helping Africans, of all people. CHina is cucked beyond belief.

    • Replies: @Smith
  139. Smith says:
    @zogborg

    The real funny thing is that you will not “anti-imperialists” complaining about chinese exploiting Africa.

    “Imperialism” is a talking point, bad if your enemies do it, good if your side does it.

    • Replies: @zogborg
  140. zogborg says:
    @Smith

    I agree. But Africa needs to be isolated and left on their own. No African migration to Europe, Asia, Americas etc. It’s funny Africa is the only place where the population is still growing. Can you imagine a future world where Africans are the majority population? Africans need to be contained and cut down to size.

  141. denk says:
    @zogborg

    democratic India

    LOL !

    China’s Tibet enjoy subsidised enonomy, education, exemption from tax. exemption from one child rule….

    india’sTibet groans under the AFSPA, the world’s most draconian ‘anti insurgent’ law, in a nut shell., its the license to kill, miame, rape, torture

    As I already mentioned many times here, the world Islam council conducted
    on site inspection of China’s re-education centres in Xinjiang, found them
    exactly as advertised, ….a place to de-radicalise muslim militants and train
    them for a productive role in society.

    To uncle scam’s chagrin, the Islamic council issued a statement censoring …INdia , for its brutal repression of Kashmiris.

    As for mOngolia, I heard folks in outer Mongol are seriously contemplating
    a re-union with China, cuz they were dazzled by the huge progress in
    inner MOngol whenever they paid a visit to their brethens there.

    hhehhe
    heheh

  142. denk says:
    @zogborg

    Nixon/KIssinger went to Beijing to pay homage ,
    dont re-write history, this is not wiki.

    hehhe

  143. denk says:
    @d dan

    my hunch is…. malla = smith, quite likely also zogbord.

    hehhe

  144. denk says:
    @Smith

    if you dont know who’s rfa working for, you should stick to
    Harry potter LOL

  145. Parbes says:
    @zogborg

    “Kissinger and Rockefeller birthed modern-day China.”

    Idiot. This retarded statement alone disqualifies you from any discussion of anything.

    • Replies: @zogborg
  146. Parbes says:
    @Smith

    “There is a China defense Brigade on this board.”

    There is an attack-China brigade on this boooaaard! Who are the same mediocrities who always surface suddenly and magically on multiple Internet comment boards to attack the selected enemy-du-jour of the criminal U.S. regime and whip up hatred against the selected country and its government and people.

    Wow that was easy!

    • Replies: @Smith
  147. zogborg says:
    @Parbes

    Truth hurts? What exactly was China doing in the 1970s and 80s if not colluding with “Anglo-Zionists” against the USSR? Learn some fucking history. Deng Xiaoping was a blatant Western stooge.

    • Replies: @denk
    , @Biff
  148. denk says:
    @zogborg

    China didnt ditch USSR for fukus,
    NIxon went to court Beijing AFTER the USSR../China split.

    fucking moron./

    • Replies: @Smith
  149. denk says:
    @zogborg

    China itself is a creation of Anglo-Zionists you imbecile.

    already debunk this B.S. many times before,

    So AZ creates commie China,THEN tried their damnedest to bring it down since 1949.,…Tibet, Xinjiang, TAM, HK ., until this day ???

    Im now quite sure malla = smith = zogborg , prolly maosali too,

    basically all speaking the same lingo.

    heheh

    PS

    heck, Ron is limiting commnets quote to 4./hr [email protected]

  150. @Smith

    Nothing the japs did come close to what the chinks do to their own people. And this is why SEA stand with Japan against China.

    The Japs also committed horrific crimes against the Americans, are you going to tell us that nothing the Japs did came close to what the white trash did to their own people and Native Americans? Only a true imbecile who has no sense of history would utter such nonsense that SEA stands with Japan against China.

    • Replies: @Smith
  151. @the grand wazoo

    Rehabilitation is not a proper purpose of a prison. Prisons are punishment. Prisons are a form of exile from society and are to be unpleasant and feared.

  152. Smith says:
    @Parbes

    [Too many vacuous insults.]

    • Replies: @Parbes
  153. Smith says:
    @last straw

    Chinese have wiped out entire tribes and kingdoms in the past, Vietnam faced numerous chinese invasion while you whine about japanese and american.

    For an example, the Hmong: http://hmonglessons.com/the-hmong/hmong-history/history-in-china/

    • Replies: @last straw
  154. Biff says:
    @zogborg

    Sans my vote you got elected asshole of the month on this board. Among the paid trolls and hired shills, you have to put in quite the effort for such accolades.

    Yo respect.

  155. @Smith

    Kingdoms rose and fell, tribes were created and destroyed. They were common occurrences throughout human history. The same things happened repeatedly all over the world, in Europe, Americas, and Africa, not only in China. The key point is that China did not commit any war crimes in Southeast Asia, unlike Japan during WW2 and the U.S. after WW2.

    • Replies: @Smith
  156. Smith says:
    @last straw

    So in other words, war crimes and genocide are excused as long as they are old? WW2 is old, yet chinks still use WW2 as a victimization point.

    Meanwhile, 1979 is fresher than WW2 yet chinks pretend this conflict didn’t even exist! What bullshit.

    And talking about right now where China is invading and occupying islands belonging to SEA countries, yet they pretend this doesn’t exist also!

    Only WW2 exist! Pre-WW2 history didn’t exist, post-WW2 history does not exist.

    • Replies: @last straw
  157. Smith says:
    @denk

    And that Nixon support is how China gets so strong nowadays, moron.

    China is propped up by the very “Anglo-Zionist” you despise in order to count the USSR, “moron”.

    • Replies: @denk
  158. Parbes says:
    @Smith

    Hah hah EFF you, moron! Thank you, Mr. Unz!

  159. Sam F2 says:

    Important typo to correct in the last sentence: “Looking back only ten years, it is difficult to believe that corruption in China is on track to rival Singapore’s by 2021” should be “WAS on track.”

    The article is excellent, and reveals that China has done exactly as I have recommended for years that the US do. The US government is entirely corrupted by money.

  160. Juzi says:
    @zogborg

    No we aren’t, and we’re more than happy to work with the Chinese than the Japanese. ASEAN largest bilateral trading partner is China.

    We achieved independence through ourselves and the Japanese are no different than all the other colonial powers at the time.

    • Replies: @Smith
  161. Smith says:
    @Juzi

    Might I ask which ASEAN country are you from?

    The maritime ASEAN countries, Vietnam, Phillipines, Indonesia and Malaysia enjoy China’s market but will oppose China’s aggression in our sea.

  162. Nonny says:
    @zogborg

    But would this be happening if an alien from the far side of the Pacific did not have massive forces right on China’s doorstep, calling sending warships aggressively there freedom of navigation?

    • Replies: @zogborg
  163. gT says:

    “In the morning I punished a few and, by evening, others had committed the same crimes. I punished those in the evening and next morning there were more violations! Although the corpses of the first had not been removed others were already lined up to follow in their path, day and night!”

    Yep, some Chinese rulers learnt that the only way to punish corruption was to execute the extended
    families of the corrupt as well, because just killing the perpetrator was a waste of time. Maybe its a practice that the current PRC leadership should adopt as well.

    And its so heartening to see that many others are seeing China, and everything Chinese, in the correct light. All the nonsense about the salvation of humanity coming from the rear end of a China man is not bearing fruit it seems.

  164. denk says:
    @Smith

    And that Nixon support is how China gets so strong nowadays,

    It was during that ‘honeymoon‘ [sic] that enable fukus to co-opt
    and infitrate Chinese officialdom, academics, even military, laying the seed for the TAM caper, which was used to demonise Deng,
    your socalled fukus ‘stooge’.

    who else but KIssinger say this…
    Its dangerous to be fukus enemy, fatal to be its friend;

    YOu’r fooling no one but yourself ,
    what a clown !

  165. denk says:
    @Parbes

    there’r lots of sock puppetry going around.
    We come here to learn, some come here to play games.
    Too many sock puppets, too little time.

  166. zogborg says:
    @Nonny

    Cold War history, not to mention ancient imperial Chinese history, suggests that China is a regional bully regardless of Western imperialism and meddling. China doesn’t really have room to complain, since during the 1970s and 80s China collaborated heavily with the U.S. against the USSR.

  167. @Smith

    So in other words, war crimes and genocide are excused as long as they are old? WW2 is old, yet chinks still use WW2 as a victimization point.

    We can talk about old genocides and war crimes, such as what Rome did to Carthage. But what’s the point? The Romans have long gone. The long arm of justice can no longer reach them. There is nothing we can do. Furthermore, the concepts of genocide and war crime did not even exist at the time. But by modern times, such as WW2 and after WW2, the Japs and American white trash were deliberately and consciously committing war crimes, and some of the criminals are still within the reach of justice. That’s why we care for war crimes and genocides during and after WW2.

    Meanwhile, 1979 is fresher than WW2 yet chinks pretend this conflict didn’t even exist! What bullshit.

    What about 1979? a minor border conflict between Vietnam and China? No big deal compared to what the U.S. did in Vietnam. Just watch the movie “Winter Soldier” (1972).

    And talking about right now where China is invading and occupying islands belonging to SEA countries, yet they pretend this doesn’t exist also!

    The opposite is true. China’s action is in response to Vietnam’s aggressive moves in the South China Sea. Vietnam has built up ten islands so far.

    • Replies: @d dan
    , @Smith
  168. d dan says:
    @last straw

    “No big deal compared to what the U.S. did in Vietnam. ”

    Many victims and survivals of orange agents in Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia are still waiting for helps in agony. But hey, who care about them if you are interested only in bashing China, right? Who care about getting compensation for them?

    https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fmsavlc.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F02%2FProject-1-C.png&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fmsavlc.org%2Fthe-vietnamese-association-of-victims-of-agent-orange-vava%2F&docid=fwfgWBrIdJvwDM&tbnid=vqCKy8adftaNIM%3A&vet=10ahUKEwjiwPjf5PzkAhUTuZ4KHf52B2sQMwhNKAQwBA..i&w=761&h=571&bih=726&biw=1067&q=agent%20orange%20victims&ved=0ahUKEwjiwPjf5PzkAhUTuZ4KHf52B2sQMwhNKAQwBA&iact=mrc&uact=8

    https://allthatsinteresting.com/agent-orange-victims

    • Replies: @Smith
  169. @anonymous

    Still the same now. It is who you know, and that is the same in every country though, including the USA.

    Epstein can disappeared without a trace, your story is incomparably mild compare to something like this.

    • Replies: @Smith
  170. Smith says:
    @last straw

    >The Romans have long gone. The long arm of justice can no longer reach them. There is nothing we can do
    Quite funny, the chinese are still here and the long arm of justice can still reach them. And unlike the american and the japanese, the chinese are ACTIVELY bullying their neighbors right now when you whine about them.
    >What about 1979? a minor border conflict between Vietnam and China? No big deal compared to what the U.S. did in Vietnam. Just watch the movie “Winter Soldier” (1972).
    1979-1991 is the proof that Chinese aggression still lives in Asia.
    You say what happened in 1979 is no big deal compared to what the US did in Vietnam, I would say what the US did in Vietnam is no big deal compared to the 1000 years of colonial by chinese.
    >The opposite is true. China’s action is in response to Vietnam’s aggressive moves in the South China Sea. Vietnam has built up ten islands so far.
    China sends ship to blockade our sea, fish and mine in them, they take over our islands and militarize while you blame us for being “aggressive”?

    • Replies: @last straw
  171. Smith says:
    @d dan

    Again in US whataboutism.

    Please tell me while the Agent Orange victims are suffering, which ships are illegally occupying the East Sea and militarizing our islands?

    Hmmm?

    • Replies: @Lin
  172. Smith says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    The thing is you know about Epstein.

    You don’t know which tree fell in China.

    That’s an advantage for China.

  173. @Smith

    Quite funny, the chinese are still here and the long arm of justice can still reach them. And unlike the american and the japanese, the chinese are ACTIVELY bullying their neighbors right now when you whine about them.

    While all Southeast Asians are not stupid, are you happen to be one of those with very low IQ? Italians and Italy are still around. I don’t see anyone setting up tribunal for what Romans did. American killed and maimed millions Vietnamese and treated South Vietnam women like whores and the whole South Vietnam as a brothel not that long ago, yet you are complaining about China?

    1979-1991 is the proof that Chinese aggression still lives in Asia.
    You say what happened in 1979 is no big deal compared to what the US did in Vietnam, I would say what the US did in Vietnam is no big deal compared to the 1000 years of colonial by chinese.

    The damage the U.S. did to Vietnam in 10 years is probably worse than what China did in 1000 years.

    China sends ship to blockade our sea, fish and mine in them, they take over our islands and militarize while you blame us for being “aggressive”?

    Who says it’s your sea?

    • Replies: @Smith
    , @xcd
  174. Smith says:
    @last straw

    >Italians and Italy are still around. I don’t see anyone setting up tribunal for what Romans did.
    Wha? The specific chinese who are responsible for the 1979 invasion are still alive, and the specific chinese who push for aggression and mining in the East Sea are still alive.

    >American killed and maimed millions Vietnamese and treated South Vietnam women like whores and the whole South Vietnam as a brothel not that long ago, yet you are complaining about China?
    Because in 1979, China teams up with the very same USA and funds Pol Pot to destabilize Vietnam, take Vietnam’s islands and now they are building military bases in our sea. We have beaten the american, now it’s the chinks who pose a national and economic threat to us.

    >The damage the U.S. did to Vietnam in 10 years is probably worse than what China did in 1000 years.
    Proof? Chinese dynasties enslave vietnamese men and women, demand yearly tribute (i.e. resource exploitation) as well as yearly slaves sent to China, send troops to invade, occupy and kill vietnamese. Modern China STILL occupies our territory, militarize them, selling bioharardous trash into Vietnam to poison vietnamese, buy poor vietnamese girls as brides/slaves. Vietnam is experiencing ALL of this while chinks remind us of the americans.

    >Who says it’s your sea?
    It has belong to us since the Nguyen dynasty.
    Historical claims, inside and outside the country, support this:
    https://www.quora.com/Are-Vietnam%E2%80%99s-bases-to-claim-islands-in-South-China-Sea-reliable

    • Replies: @last straw
    , @Lin
  175. @Muggles

    ah
    one more marker that China walks in the footsteps of empire

  176. @Smith

    Wha? The specific chinese who are responsible for the 1979 invasion are still alive, and the specific chinese who push for aggression and mining in the East Sea are still alive

    .

    The Chinese did not commit any war crimes in the 1979 incursion, which lasted only 3 weeks at most, and was justified by Vietnam’s vicious persecution of ethnic Chinese in Vietnam and Vietnam’s violent, escalating provocation at the Vietnam-Chinese border before the conflict.

    Because in 1979, China teams up with the very same USA and funds Pol Pot to destabilize Vietnam, take Vietnam’s islands and now they are building military bases in our sea. We have beaten the american, now it’s the chinks who pose a national and economic threat to us.

    You Vietnam gooks will always be a weakling compared to China. So the best thing for you to do is to adjust your mentality, get used to it, and do not do anything stupid to provoke China, such as claiming China’s islands as your own. China is too powerful for you to handle.

    Proof? Chinese dynasties enslave vietnamese men and women, demand yearly tribute (i.e. resource exploitation) as well as yearly slaves sent to China, send troops to invade, occupy and kill vietnamese. Modern China STILL occupies our territory, militarize them, selling bioharardous trash into Vietnam to poison vietnamese, buy poor vietnamese girls as brides/slaves. Vietnam is experiencing ALL of this while chinks remind us of the americans.

    How many Vietnamese were burnt alive by the Americans using napalm and white phosphorous? hundreds of thousands? a million? And how many died the same way in the hands of Chinese in the past 1000 years? Zero? While I agree that Chinese imperialism in Vietnam should be condemned like any form of imperialism, the other problems you mentioned are just the nature order of things between rich and poor countries. The situation will improve as Vietnam develops further and gets richer. The way you described it, however, is unmitigated Sinopnobia.

    It has belong to us since the Nguyen dynasty.
    Historical claims, inside and outside the country, support this:
    https://www.quora.com/Are-Vietnam%E2%80%99s-bases-to-claim-islands-in-South-China-Sea-reliable

    I doubt Quora is an authoritative source.

    • Replies: @Smith
  177. Lin says:
    @Smith

    Please tell me while the Agent Orange victims are suffering, which ships are illegally occupying the East Sea and militarizing our islands?

    Your Viet nationalism is amusing.
    Look, you or those viet nationalists fled with desperation to a country that bombed/poisoned the fuck of their old country with napalm/agent orange.
    Certainly you’ll have better credibility if you or those people move back to Saigon.
    Being said, categorically I’ve good admiration for uncle Ho chi-ming; at least he meant business.
    http://www.alfredyaghobzadehphoto.com/-/galleries/gallery/vietnam/vietnam-agent-orange-babies/-/medias/44ae8f99-393a-4f4d-bc34-44254ee70a33-vietnam-agent-orange-babies

    • Replies: @d dan
  178. d dan says:
    @Lin

    “Look, you or those viet nationalists fled with desperation to a country that bombed/poisoned the fuck of their old country with napalm/agent orange.”

    They are actually wet dreaming that one day, maybe in their lifetime, US will fight China to help them get a few of the South China Sea islands. Can’t blame the invertebrates, they dare not fight China themselves. Contrast that to South Korea, where the whole nation is united to fight for the rights of the much smaller number of surviving comfort women for a war crime committed much earlier, the suppression of the voices of their own war crime victims by the so-called “vietnameses” is just plainly unconscionable (even for outsiders), if not hilarious.

  179. Lin says:
    @Smith

    SoCal, look, Cambodia was a prime victim of viet imperialism. The Mekong delta once belonged to Cambodia.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_ages_of_Cambodia

  180. In the early period when Confucius lived people in Shandong area where of Aryan stock, not current type Han-Chinese.

    https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t351070/
    https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t1197505/

  181. xcd says:
    @last straw

    You forgot about their R&R visits all over the rest of SEA, bringing their barbarity and STDs.

  182. xcd says:

    The dogged denial and desperate peurile compulsive insults from imperial readers is no surprise. They are steeped in double-think on these subjects:
    – race, warped by imperialist and capitalist propaganda, and whether their race is now losing the zero-sum game it imposed on others.
    – ability, warped by religion, race, claims of intelligence, etc.
    – virtue, warped by religion, individual fortunes and revisionist propaganda.
    – democracy, opportunity and competition, warped by selfishness and the zero-sum-game.
    – material progress, warped by the fantasy of benevolent capitalist super-heroes — Atlases holding up the world.
    – the world outside including culture, warped by imperialist and revisionist propaganda from the “free” press, and dumbed-down schooling.
    – foreign achievements, warped by intellectual property.

    Meanwhile, back at the OK Corral, the UN has confirmed what we suspected: USA and UK are shit-holes. Can capitalism or religion exist without exploitation, corruption and destruction?

  183. Smith says:
    @last straw

    >The Chinese did not commit any war crimes in the 1979 incursion, which lasted only 3 weeks at most, and was justified by Vietnam’s vicious persecution of ethnic Chinese in Vietnam and Vietnam’s violent, escalating provocation at the Vietnam-Chinese border before the conflict.
    Lies. The chink invasion in 1979 itself is a war crime since it is illegal, with no backing or proof of said “chink ethnic cleansing” except their own words. And second, they funded and armed Pol Pot, who also invaded and killed Vietnamese civilians so they are complicit in war crimes.

    >You Vietnam gooks will always be a weakling compared to China. So the best thing for you to do is to adjust your mentality, get used to it, and do not do anything stupid to provoke China, such as claiming China’s islands as your own.
    Touche. So Vietnam is so powerful that it can handle America, yet it can’t handle China, despite the fact that history has showed that Vietnam consistently has beaten chink invasion in ALL eras. Building a bunch of missiles ain’t hard, using them to sink chink ships ain’t hard. What are the chinks gonna do? Bomb us again like the americans? LOL
    Also, please provide proof it’s China’s islands. I have presented mine that it’s RIGHTFULLY Vietnamese, Both Hoang Sa and Truong Sa.

    >And how many died the same way in the hands of Chinese in the past 1000 years? Zero?
    Actually more than a million considering Vietnam has been in constant warfare with every chink dynasties starting from the Qin dynasty. And that includes occupation, cleansing, slave tribute and every bits I mentioned. Vietnamese suffer more than 2000 years of chink, while only 25 years of american.

    >The situation will improve as Vietnam develops further and gets richer. The way you described it, however, is unmitigated Sinopnobia.
    LAWL, I guess the Vietnam vs American War was pointless then since even if America occupies Vietnam, it will develop further and get richer and the situation will improve regardless. And what way do I describe it? Fact is Sinophobia now? Why is pointing out chinks oppression sinophobia? Is pointing out american oppression americano-phobia?

    >I doubt Quora is an authoritative source.
    Certainly more authoritative than whatever chinks have. Bring an argument.

    @Lin:

    Look, I’m in Saigon right now. And yes, I’m a Viet nationalist, what’s the point of being a vietnamese if not for nationalism? Both north and south vietnamese agree.

    Also, you bring up Agent Orange again, so I’m gonna ask you again, while Agent Orange victims are suffering, WHICH ships are illegally occupying and militarizing OUR islands, huh?

    About Ho Chi Minh, look at what he says about the chinks, he was even more extreme than me, funnily enough. But yeah, Ho Chi Minh rocks.

    Do you want to bring up Agent Orange the 3rd time?

    @ d dan:
    Funny that coming from a chink sympathizer living in the West. It’s always funny to hear from diaspora. Too bad, I’m actually living in Vietnam, Saigon in particular.

    Also, the whole Korea is united in crying about Japan, big fucking deal. They know Japan lost and now they want to twist the knife. I support Japan all the fucking ways since only they have spine in Asia against the chinks.

    Vietnam should be more like Japan, with the same work ethics and procure more missiles.

Current Commenter
says:

Leave a Reply - Comments on articles more than two weeks old will be judged much more strictly on quality and tone


 Remember My InformationWhy?
 Email Replies to my Comment
Submitted comments become the property of The Unz Review and may be republished elsewhere at the sole discretion of the latter
Subscribe to This Comment Thread via RSS Subscribe to All Godfree Roberts Comments via RSS