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Every time there is a terrorist incident friends and acquaintances contact me and tell me “how it actually happened.” God knows as a former intelligence officer I truly do believe that nearly anything is possible given enough planning and good luck in arranging for a misdirection or cover-up, so I am generally speaking receptive to what people are saying and thinking in the belief that even seemingly wild conspiracy theories sometimes can be rooted in reality.

People often embrace conspiracy theories because the government has lost all credibility. Official lying has probably been the norm since the time of Pharaoh Khufu but recent U.S. investigative commissions starting with the Warren Report on the killing of JFK and continuing with the 9/11 report have clearly avoided inquiring into matters that might be regarded as controversial, raising serious questions about their objectivity and veracity. And then there is the question of what is not investigated. Where, for example, is the investigative report on the disastrous U.S. decision to invade Iraq which used fake intelligence and might have amounted to a criminal conspiracy to go to war? If such a review had ever taken place a few neoconservatives might well be hanging out to dry in some federal prison rather than appearing on Sunday morning talk television. Truth, or at least the government version thereof, is clearly selective.

So what am I being told about San Bernardino? Islamic State (ISIS) has declared that Syed Rizwan Farook and Tashfeen Malik were its followers though it has not claimed that it directed the operation. There may also have been some kind of minimal contact, possibly limited to visiting websites, with al-Nusra in Syria and al-Shabab in Somalia. That notwithstanding, the most popular narrative I have been hearing is that it was none of the above, being instead a false flag operation carried out by any one of a number of possible suspects who might have been motivated to advance the “clash of civilizations” between western governments and Islam. The two gunman could have been in touch with someone who they thought to be a friend and co-religionist but who was in reality an agent provocateur hoping to inspire them to some act of violence that would harden U.S. opinion against Muslims. Far fetched? Perhaps, but stranger things have happened.

And then there is a perhaps more plausible variation on the false flag, which is an FBI sting operation gone rogue or at least spinning out of control. The FBI’s counter-terrorism effort has largely consisted of identifying disaffected young Muslims through intercepts of internet messages and phone calls prior to placing them on a list for more intrusive investigation. There are reported to be something like 1,000 terrorist suspects who are currently being watch listed, though there are many more who do not quite meet the threshold requirements for active and ongoing investigation. The shooters in California, for example, reportedly had visited some terrorist related sites but had not actively engaged with them so they did not cross the redline that would have mandated further action by the Bureau.

Those disgruntled young Muslims who do meet the FBI requirements for more intensive handling frequently find that they have a new friend who is someone just like themselves who is really unhappy about what the United States is doing in the Middle East and to Muslims worldwide. That friend is usually an FBI informant who is not supposed to encourage any criminal act, which would be entrapment. But who knows what actually goes on behind closed doors in conversations that are not being recorded? The new friend sometimes claims to have access to bombs and weapons. The bombs don’t work and the weapons don’t fire but even before they can be used an arrest is made and everyone involved in the sting gets promoted.

In the case of San Bernardino, the FBI claims that it was completely unaware of the potential threat posed by Syed Farook and Tashfeen Malik. But it is being suggested by some who are suspicious of such disclaimers that they might have indeed known enough about them to insert an informant. After that point the game possibly went a little bit too far with the targets coming up with their own weapons probably unbeknownst to their new friend and deciding to act. Or maybe the informant himself was in the loop but playing a double game against his FBI paymasters, who is to say? But the end result could possibly have been the same, with the attack taking place killing fourteen innocent people and also the two shooters who will never be able to talk about what motivated them to do what they did.

A good friend of mine has advanced yet another theory that is definitely outside the box. Syed Rizwan Farook met his future wife through an Islamic matrimony website. It was an arranged marriage though he did meet her once or twice before they were wed. By one estimate, 15% of young Muslims who are being radicalized and joining ISIS are women. If one were set up an ISIS-linked marriage agency intended to entice lonely young men who have western passports it might be relatively easy to staff. And once the couple is actually married and in place in Europe or the U.S. there comes the indoctrination phase and you wind up with a radicalized agent in place who is at least somewhat above suspicion and carrying a passport that can be used to travel worldwide. And if he is in the United States his “mission” is much easier in that he can easily acquire all kinds of weapons and bomb making material.

And using a woman to trap a prospective agent is not exactly that unusual in clandestine operations. The Soviets had their “sparrows” and western intelligence exploited “honeypot” operations. So I am actually kind of inclined towards the viability of the marriage agency idea and I will explain why. Last week’s newspapers quite understandably explored Tashfeen Malik’s background in great detail. Relying on government sources they have explained how Malik was checked on terrorism data bases, against criminal records and also interviewed several times by consular officers before she was issued her a K-1 visa, commonly referred to as a “fiancé” visa.

My response to that is “So what?” If someone has not lived or traveled in the U.S. or Europe he or she will, with rare exceptions, not have come to the attention of anyone who actually compiles and shares such information. She would not be in any general terrorism related data bases that American officials would normally have access to without going to the local intelligence liaison service, which they would only rarely do if there were definite red flag concerns. Nor would the U.S. Embassy Consular Section, which issues visas, have any ability to access local criminal records in Pakistan or Saudi Arabia under normal circumstances, where Malik reportedly lived and grew up. All of which means that nothing would come to the surface even if Tashfeen Malik had been a raving militant, which just might have been the case.

The inability of the U.S. government to “vet” immigrants and those who have entry permission by right through marriage or family is at the heart of the problem in keeping out the bad people while still allowing ordinary travelers and genuine refugees to enter the United States. It is a dilemma rendered even more complicated by the lack of any local government in parts of Syria and Iraq where many of the refugees claim to originate from. If someone speaking Arabic produces a tattered passport that could be fake or identifies himself using a name and address in bombed out Aleppo or Mosul how do you confirm it? And if a U.S. government official claims that someone has been thoroughly checked and investigated, should you believe it?

 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: ISIS, Syed Farook, Tashfeen Malik 
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  1. Jason says:

    Most conspiracy theories say “blah blah blah a bunch of Evil White Men really did it”.

    It’s past annoying at this point.

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    • Replies: @bondo
    what about the seen 3 (three) white guys in black at this "event"?
    , @Mr. Anon
    "Most conspiracy theories say “blah blah blah a bunch of Evil White Men really did it”.

    It’s past annoying at this point."

    I agree. The people who assert that everything is a (so-called) "false-flag" always lay the blame for it on the New World Order - the military-security-surveillance-state, the government, the wealthy power-elite, etc. And yet whose agenda is advanced by all these attacks? Whose agenda has advanced despite all these attacks? That self-same NWO. And notice how the attackers - those shadowy conspiracy operatives - are always white men. The whole false-flag narrative advances an explicity anti-white agenda, really.

    Have these false-flag guys ever stopped to consider the possibility that the false-flag narrative might be................a false flag? Have they ever considered the possibility that they are being unknowingly conscripted to advance the agenda of the NWO? Have they ever stopped to consider the possibility that they are the real patsies?

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  2. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2015/12/07/another-false-flag-attack/

    Another false flag attack that dumbshit Americans will fall for hook, line, and sinker

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    • Replies: @jack ryan
    Is this old loon Paul Craig Roberts still alive?

    He was apparently a close friend of Peter Brimelow and Peter purchased the rights to publish Paul Craig Roberts' articles on Vdare. None of them ever addressed the vdare issues of the Nationalist question, immigration and most were just rants hating Israel and the Israeli lobby and had fallen in to Democracy Now nonsense that all the problems in the Arab/Muslim 3rd world were caused by American foreign policy, racism, Israel was just like Apartheid South Africa - like that was so bad.

    The Zulu King has just stated the truth the Afrikanner rule of South Africa under Apartheid was infinitely better than Black ANC rule.

    #*(@*#@ Paul Craig Roberts - so he hates Neo Conservatives, Zionists or just the Jews. I'm supposed to look the other way while 950,000 plus nastiest Muslm men migrants invade Europe so Paul Craig Roberts can spread wild, completely unsubstantiated conspiracy theory nonsense like 9/11/01 wasn't done by Islamic extremists.
    , @Wizard of Oz
    The link appears just to show that PCR is favouring some other blogger's false flag conspiracy theory. At a glance there do appear to be points made which cast doubt on the MSM received version but I have no idea whether PCR's favoured blogger is reliable. Reporting of police saying that the Muslim couple had initiated a gun fight from within their vehicle and independent evidence that there were no open windows in their car would be a start. Anyone wish to do the hard work of verification?

    Generally the killing of suspects in the US seems often to be unnecessary. It is hard to think of a reason why killing the couple would have been better than capturing them alive. It's not a problem unique to the US that police kill unnecessarily. In Australia there have been plenty of cases where mentally ill or unstable perpetrators/victims have been shot fatally when they were only shouting, looking menacing and brandishing a knife. So it is not necessarily more significant than a police failure if someone is killed whom one would, rationally, have wanted to question.
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  3. Kiza says:

    Mr Giraldi is becoming a leading magnet for the Hasbara troops and other selected trash with his articles about touchy issues.

    I know he is trying to keep a healthy distance from his subject but the following is outright ridiculous:

    Those disgruntled young Muslims who do meet the FBI requirements for more intensive handling frequently find that they have a new friend who is someone just like themselves who is really unhappy about what the United States is doing in the Middle East and to Muslims worldwide. That friend is usually an FBI informant who is not supposed to encourage any criminal act, which would be entrapment.

    All this alphabet soup agencies whose income depends on the “terrorism solved” and they would not do entrapment!? Am I misunderstanding irony here? If not, then Mr Giraldi just created his own conspiracy theory – the Government Goons do not do entrapment.

    The rest of the article is quite realistic, especially his friend’s theory, but it also implies something which nobody from the overgrown cancer of the security establishment will admit to: there is no sure protection, even in a police state. It is the old Ben Franklin’s: Those who want to sacrifice liberty for security, will end up with neither liberty nor security.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Yes, you were misunderstanding irony there.
    Great Franklin quote.
    Giraldi is one experienced, reasonable dude.
    , @pete mangum
    You couldn't carry Giraldi's water! Even former Judge, Andrew Napolitano, has shown where the FBI has concocted at least 20 false "terrorism plots" in order to advance the phony 'War on Terror.' Can't have a 'War on Terror' if no "terrists" show up, now can we!? Your smug, insulting comments regarding Giraldi asside, I highly doubt Phil could have amassed the sterling career he did by being "ridiculous" about anything. You obviously know nothing of the man and haven't followed his contributions in the many periodicals he is linked to. His expertise has, more than once, blown the lid off the relentless government propaganda we are burdened with on a daily basis.

    What have you done, lately!?
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  4. Ben_C says:

    Phil…

    Blaming the problem on K-1 visas is just dancing around the margins…

    If you want to solve a problem, you need to go to the source…something that seems “uncomfortable” to many…

    I will just end with this quote:

    “…
    These events have caused a great deal of suffering to our homeland and consumed a great deal of its material and non-material resources. In my first speech under the roof of this Assembly, and when the crisis was in its first weeks, I talked about the outside factor without emphasizing it since the greatest responsibility of any failure in any house is that of the owners of the house and those who live in it before it is the responsibility of foreigners. But at that time, some people went as far as denying the existence of the foreign factor altogether and considered this argument an escape from internal obligations. They argued that the gist of the problem a disagreement between Syrian parties and that what is happening on the ground is a purely peaceful movement and that the source of any violence is the state. Some people made this argument in malice and bad faith and others made it with naivety, lack of knowledge, and as a result of media forgeries. Now, and after more than a year from the beginning of these events, things are clearer and masks have been lifted. The international role in what is happening is already well-known not only for decades, but for centuries past. And I don’t think it’s going to change in the foreseeable future. Colonialism is still colonialism. It only changed in terms of methods and ways of attack. The regional role has exposed itself when it moved from one failure to another in the plans of its perpetrators. It had to declare the truth of its positions and intentions through its own officials. As for local figures and forces, who have appointed themselves agents of the people, they saw the people expressing themselves on the streets without any need for guardians or agents taking the opportunity to jump on the bandwagon of an ephemeral wave and seeking to build glories for themselves at the expense of the people’s blood. The people have despised and categorically rejected all those who have planted their bodies in the country while their hearts and brains lay outside. On the other hand, there were those who proposed ideas in order to reach solutions from the beginning of the crisis. Some based their views on an emotional reaction to a crisis which has been planned by pure reason. Others based their arguments on available information without deeper examination of a crisis built on a solid foundation of forgery. We highly appreciate good intentions, but what is happening is more complicated and dangerous than allowing to be dealt with in a simplistic analysis or emotional reactions or utopian ideas. After all these starkly clear facts and after all the innocent blood which has been spilled and the innocent souls which have been lost, we are in need of a tremendous amount of reason. We need to learn from the people to which we belong and which was able to decipher the conspiracy from its early beginnings and expose the highly complicated forgeries based on people’s instinct which is never mistaken and a national memory feeding on a heritage rich in experience and a moral accumulation which has fortified our society against deviation and protected our traditions and our identity from annihilation. What we have learned from the people is a simple, old and deep principle. If we want to solve a problem, all we have to do is face this problem and not run away from it. Most of the proposed solutions have expressed an unconscious case of escaping forward. Facing the problem might be painful in most cases, but in the end it will provide the cure, while running away from the problem is similar to the case of an addict who feels a false ecstasy while in real fact is moving towards death.
    …”

    –President Bashar al-Assad (June 4th, 2012)

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  5. I still think this:

    It’s a no brainer that if you’re bombing and killing folks in faraway lands mostly for profit and geopolitical chess games, that you’re going to make their relatives here unhappy. Some unknown but troubling number of them might do in revenge what even some few of us non-Muslims would do if the same were done to our families. Since it’s too late to send everyone back, since most are citizens, it might be wise not to be bombing or warring for ill defined or stupid reasons, the relatives of Americans. As Jesus put it, if we really are his “Crusaders,” “live by the sword, die by the sword.”

    Our war making is defeating nothing except our own liberties and safety both.

    The sadder fact is, there’s no protection possible by our government of us, except to stop its foreign war making, and the only defense in the short term is an armed citizenry that can stop the attacks as soon as they start.

    They could shut down immigration from those countries generating Islamic terrorism, until the government figures out what is going on. I mean, are we at war or aren’t we? How many Germans and Japanese immigrants were accepted during World War II? What did the Supreme Court say?

    But if they really wanted to know what’s going on, they could understand in a heartbeat.

    Well, I’ve figured out what’s going on, along with Ron Paul and many others. We’re involved in coups, bombings, wars and proxy wars, occupations, assassinations, dronings and intrigues playing both ends against the middle in Muslim lands, against their will. That’s what’s going on, Don, Hillary, Marco, Ted, Bernie and Barry. Why not put a stop to it, or would that interrupt the military-industrial profits and give too much legitimacy to the non-communist Russians, Alawite Syrians and the Iranian democracy?

    BTW, don’t be too sure the Supreme Court would shut down an executive order immigration restriction in the face of terrorism. So many draconian provisions exist in the Patriot Act: is it unAmerican? Not by Congress’ voting record. I know people who were supposed to become citizens in two weeks during Bush’s term after 9/11, but were delayed 6 years, and those were Anglo Canadians, after National Review raised a stink about someone getting to be a citizen who only knew someone with subversive connections in passing.

    Read More
    • Agree: SolontoCroesus
    • Replies: @geokat62

    Well, I’ve figured out what’s going on,... Why not put a stop to it, or would that interrupt the military-industrial profits...?
     
    Fran, why not admit that the prime beneficiary, along with MIC, is the Zionist project? Why not admit they have foisted the policy of remaking the ME on the US? Why not admit they are the ones who were keen to launch a crusade in MENA, a clash of civilizations, a war against Islam... all in an effort to secure the villa in the jungle?
    , @KA
    I am fine with Donald's demand of restricting immigration from muslim background as long as he makes good on his promises of withdrawing militarily from middle east ,shows no interest or shows even handedness to Israel Palestine conflicts , respects the international laws on NPT pertaining to Iran ,stops supporting Saudi in Bahrain and Yemen and compensates Libya for what it has done to it .
    It will be great if he could reorder an investigation on 911 and on those who orchestrated the Iraq war . An honest investigation of the neocons will not bring back those Iraqis we have killed but at least it will make sure that the justice is done and neocons never abuse the system again . Unless person like Wolfowitz or Ledeen or Libby or Liberman, or Power are punished for anti American activities the war against terror wont be won because they are the real terrorist who bleeds America to death in unnecessary war
    , @random observer
    I tend to suspect the Supreme Court would have something to say about such immigration and citizenship restrictions being imposed, but the real question ought to be, why should it?

    Nobody has a right to settle in someone else's country, and a country can and should retain the right to control immigration however arbitrary its criteria. The only possible restriction could be signed and ratified international treaties to which said country signed on. As the immigrants are not yet members of the US body politic, how can they have rights under the Constitution that created and regulates that body?

    For those who are permanent residents, they could have a case. On broad principle, they are still not citizens, so their claim on rights cannot be total [ and isn't; citizenship is not an automatic right at any point], but they have committed time and effort to the US and have jumped through the hoops put in their way in order to move toward citizenship. There may be a case that a contractual relationship has been created and the US cannot change the terms for those already in place. Not sure how that hearing would go.

    But for immigrants not yet settled, what possible claim could they have if the US just outright refused to consider them?
    , @bomag
    Some unknown but troubling number of them might do in revenge what even some few of us non-Muslims would do if the same were done to our families.

    Please tell them to target the administration and congressional leaders that foster the stuff. Instead we get killings of people who largely don't support those policies.

    Back in the day a guy killed Archduke Ferdinand because of this stuff. Now we get people bombing daycares, and some are so deluded that they think this is a legitimate route for political change.

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  6. Possibly you’re too generous Phil. There’s a bit of history in recent years recalling the very real ‘GLADIO’, where certain facts on the ground don’t add up. For instance the so-called ‘Navy Yard’ shootings where a nearly on location SWAT team was ordered to stand down:

    http://ronaldthomaswest.com/2013/09/19/the-navy-yard-reporting-smells-wrong/

    Which in turn recalls on location Aurora eye-witness accounts stating without hesitation there were multiple shooters, that one had been let in a side door by someone that appeared to be positioned to do just that. After the initial, on site reporting, these stories are almost immediately dropped and never explained. And now we have:

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-12-06/san-bernardino-attack-eye-witness-three-tall-white-men-did-it

    ^ “I heard shots fired and it was from you know an automatic weapon. [...] very unusual. Why would we hear shots? As we looked out the window a second set of shots goes off [...] and we saw a man fall to the floor. Then we just looked and we saw three men dressed in all black, military attire, with vests on they were holding assault rifles. As soon as they opened up the doors to building three [...] one of them [...] started to shoot into the room”

    “It looked like their skin color was white. They look like they were athletic build and they appeared to be tall”

    Motive? In the case of a possible American edition of “GLADIO” I would come to the same conclusion as the contributor at zerohedge; it’s about creating social momentum to disarm the American public. Here’s a dissection of some fairly insidious liberal gun control propaganda:

    http://ronaldthomaswest.com/2013/08/20/the-anti-federalist-urban-legend/

    And for those who might be unfamiliar with GLADIO:

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    • Replies: @Jonathan Revusky

    Possibly you’re too generous Phil.
     
    LOL. Generous to whom?
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  7. SAW says:

    I usually think of myself as a skeptic and am very careful when it comes to conspiracy theories, but this whole incident reeks of false flags. So he went to Saudi Arabia to pick up his new wife, without raising the slightest suspicion? Oh, come on! Every non-Muslim journalist/dissident seems to be on a FBI watchlist. But we probably won’t be able to proof any such speculations conclusively.
    Instead, we should focus on another alarming development, namely the fact that political correctness may have contributed to the success of the mass murder. Neighbors who saw the Arab newlyweds driving around all geared up and armed to the teeth didn’t report them—because of fear that they might be shamed as racists!

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    It occurs to me that suspect Islamists who are living in San Bernardino might (legitimately) have less attention paid to them than in some other places. DC and NYC are obviously hotter spots but my general point is that when there are not infinite resources for surveillance there would be some sort of marking of priorities and San Bernardino location might be pretty low - in the absence of a nearby military base or flying school....
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  8. and then there’s the “missing” 3rd shooter. Overall, though, this one looks like an actual and for real flag: because Muslim. They are what they are, and do what they do. And should not be here in the first place

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    • Replies: @Jonathan Revusky

    (snip) because Muslim....
     
    Alert controllers! The propaganda works! Repeat the message enough and it soaks into the most thick-headed reptilian brain!
    , @anonymous
    A hearty endorsement of Donald Trump's declaration: NO MUSLIMS should be allowed into the US until further notice.


    And Muslims should reciprocate: Muslim nations should expel all Anglo- zionists until further notice.
    , @KA
    Muslim have been here for a while long before American inspired political color coded revolution gave rise to terrorism .
    By the way, America hasn't paid Syrian,Iraqi,Indonesian,and Iranian yet . Its long overdue while America continues to rake up more debt by engaging in same destructive antiliberal anti secular anti progressive anti human behaviors in other parts of the world through CIA inspired destructive plots against the citizenry who looked up to America with respect,faith,trust and hopes for decolonization,for cultural and intellectual growth.

    911 has been happening to some of these countries every 6 month for decades .
    California shooting has been occurring to some of these countries every month for years .
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  9. LondonBob says:

    Unfortunately the West is now well capable of generating plenty of legitimate acts of terrorism without any help from any rogue state actors.

    Of course doesn’t make much sense to let a people in to your country whilst at the same time insulting their religion and bombing their home countries.

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    • Agree: Kiza
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  10. Kirt says:

    “And then there is a perhaps more plausible variation on the false flag, which is an FBI sting operation gone rogue or at least spinning out of control.”

    Isn’t this what a lot of people figure happened with the Tsarnaev brothers? I think it has a lot of plausibility. It’s fairly common where you have secret intelligence organizations trying to infiltrate secret revolutionary groups and vice versa. Note for example the symbiotic relationship of the Tsarist Okrana secret police and the terrorist “combat brigade” of the Socialist Revolutionary Party.

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  11. @Ronald Thomas West
    Possibly you're too generous Phil. There's a bit of history in recent years recalling the very real 'GLADIO', where certain facts on the ground don't add up. For instance the so-called 'Navy Yard' shootings where a nearly on location SWAT team was ordered to stand down:

    http://ronaldthomaswest.com/2013/09/19/the-navy-yard-reporting-smells-wrong/

    Which in turn recalls on location Aurora eye-witness accounts stating without hesitation there were multiple shooters, that one had been let in a side door by someone that appeared to be positioned to do just that. After the initial, on site reporting, these stories are almost immediately dropped and never explained. And now we have:

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-12-06/san-bernardino-attack-eye-witness-three-tall-white-men-did-it

    ^ "I heard shots fired and it was from you know an automatic weapon. [...] very unusual. Why would we hear shots? As we looked out the window a second set of shots goes off [...] and we saw a man fall to the floor. Then we just looked and we saw three men dressed in all black, military attire, with vests on they were holding assault rifles. As soon as they opened up the doors to building three [...] one of them [...] started to shoot into the room"

    “It looked like their skin color was white. They look like they were athletic build and they appeared to be tall"

    Motive? In the case of a possible American edition of "GLADIO" I would come to the same conclusion as the contributor at zerohedge; it's about creating social momentum to disarm the American public. Here's a dissection of some fairly insidious liberal gun control propaganda:

    http://ronaldthomaswest.com/2013/08/20/the-anti-federalist-urban-legend/

    And for those who might be unfamiliar with GLADIO:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k83L3I6Z35w

    Possibly you’re too generous Phil.

    LOL. Generous to whom?

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  12. @Haxo Angmark
    and then there's the "missing" 3rd shooter. Overall, though, this one looks like an actual and for real flag: because Muslim. They are what they are, and do what they do. And should not be here in the first place

    (snip) because Muslim….

    Alert controllers! The propaganda works! Repeat the message enough and it soaks into the most thick-headed reptilian brain!

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    • Replies: @Wally
    You are projecting.
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  13. alexander says:

    Dear Mr Giraldi,

    I would like to take this time to thank you (and Unz Review) for all your thoughtful, timely and well wrought articles. They really matter a great deal so please keep them coming.

    This most recent one calls to mind a statement made by Amos Gilad (Minister of Israeli Defense) in 2011.

    ” We don’t do Gandhi very well”

    The statement was made in reference to Peaceful,Palestinian , “non-terroristic” resistance to Israeli land grabs and military occupation beyond the “green line”.

    With that in mind , I recall a large Palestinian demonstration several months ago…where Israel had secretly inserted five “agents” within the Palestinian demonstrators, who, while posing as Palestinians, lead the charge of ‘terroristic” behavior against the I.D.F. When several “real”Palestinians followed suit, they were quickly turned on and apprehended by the “agents”, resulting in several brutal beatings and arrests.

    The question in this scenario is “who is generating the terror, and why ?”

    Perhaps” all” the “Terror industries”, that sprouted like mushrooms after 9-11, and have cost the taxpayer trillions of dollars to fund, who are ever eager for more and perpetual funding, “don’t do Gandhi very well” either.

    The symbiosis between the “terror industries” we employ and the ‘terrorist act” they have been created to mollify exposes an economic interdependence that is quite disconcerting.

    the scaly truth is that the terror industry “needs” the terrorist act to survive.

    Through this prism, The “act” becomes essential to the existence of the industry endowed to stop it…..”not” the other way around.

    I am 52 years (young) old , Mr Giraldi, that means I spent the first 37 years of my life in the pre 9-11 era.
    During those (nearly) four decades, we ,as a “nation”, spent a” fraction “of what we do,fighting ” terror” ,and the amount of “terrorist threats, terrorist events, and mass shootings” was a thousand times less then it is today.

    If it a question of who is the chicken and who is the egg…..I wonder what Ghandi would say?

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    • Replies: @panjoomby
    excellent points - welcome to the military-homeland-industrial-terror complex. i wonder what Eisenhower would say!
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  14. geokat62 says:
    @Fran Macadam
    I still think this:

    It’s a no brainer that if you’re bombing and killing folks in faraway lands mostly for profit and geopolitical chess games, that you’re going to make their relatives here unhappy. Some unknown but troubling number of them might do in revenge what even some few of us non-Muslims would do if the same were done to our families. Since it’s too late to send everyone back, since most are citizens, it might be wise not to be bombing or warring for ill defined or stupid reasons, the relatives of Americans. As Jesus put it, if we really are his “Crusaders,” “live by the sword, die by the sword.”

    Our war making is defeating nothing except our own liberties and safety both.

    The sadder fact is, there’s no protection possible by our government of us, except to stop its foreign war making, and the only defense in the short term is an armed citizenry that can stop the attacks as soon as they start.

    They could shut down immigration from those countries generating Islamic terrorism, until the government figures out what is going on. I mean, are we at war or aren’t we? How many Germans and Japanese immigrants were accepted during World War II? What did the Supreme Court say?

    But if they really wanted to know what’s going on, they could understand in a heartbeat.

    Well, I’ve figured out what’s going on, along with Ron Paul and many others. We’re involved in coups, bombings, wars and proxy wars, occupations, assassinations, dronings and intrigues playing both ends against the middle in Muslim lands, against their will. That’s what’s going on, Don, Hillary, Marco, Ted, Bernie and Barry. Why not put a stop to it, or would that interrupt the military-industrial profits and give too much legitimacy to the non-communist Russians, Alawite Syrians and the Iranian democracy?

    BTW, don’t be too sure the Supreme Court would shut down an executive order immigration restriction in the face of terrorism. So many draconian provisions exist in the Patriot Act: is it unAmerican? Not by Congress’ voting record. I know people who were supposed to become citizens in two weeks during Bush’s term after 9/11, but were delayed 6 years, and those were Anglo Canadians, after National Review raised a stink about someone getting to be a citizen who only knew someone with subversive connections in passing.

    Well, I’ve figured out what’s going on,… Why not put a stop to it, or would that interrupt the military-industrial profits…?

    Fran, why not admit that the prime beneficiary, along with MIC, is the Zionist project? Why not admit they have foisted the policy of remaking the ME on the US? Why not admit they are the ones who were keen to launch a crusade in MENA, a clash of civilizations, a war against Islam… all in an effort to secure the villa in the jungle?

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  15. Wally says: • Website
    @Jonathan Revusky

    (snip) because Muslim....
     
    Alert controllers! The propaganda works! Repeat the message enough and it soaks into the most thick-headed reptilian brain!

    You are projecting.

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  16. Rehmat says:

    All claims which challenge the official narrative of a criminal event, is called “conspiracy theory” – most of which have come true with the passage of time including Holocaust, 9/11, 7/7, USS Liberty, USS Cole, etc.

    In order to test the truth behind the ever-changing “official story” is to consider who benefit the most from these terrorist acts. One doesn’t need a PhD to find out that Muslims never benefitted from any of these tragedies. The only “beneficiary” had been the state of Israel.

    “Our task is to recruit a barrier and once again put the fear of death into the Arabs of the area,” – Yitzhak Rabin, Israeli defense Minister (later prime minister of the Zionist entity).

    “Israeli interogators routinely ill-treat and torture Arab prisoners. Prisoners are hooded or blind-folded and hung by their wrists for long periods. Most are struck in the gentals or in other way sexually abused. Most are sexually assualted. Others are administered electric shocks,” – Ralph Schoeman, Sunday Times, June 19, 1977.

    “There is no country in the world in which use of official and sustained torture is an established and documented as is in the case of Israel,” – Amnesty International. …….

    http://rehmat1.com/2009/08/10/terrorism-theirs-and-ours/

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    • Replies: @Tony
    Looks like you are part of the problem rehmat.
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  17. The notion that “the news” carries “the truth” is so quaint, so naive…

    “We” never know what’s really going on. “We” are frankly used to being fed an endless diet of mythology (in the library’s section labeled History) that nothing we’re fed needs even so much as vaguely resemble truth.

    None of it matters. All my OODA loop requires is to Observe common sense. Everything I’m told is a lie, once outside the confines of my own personal experience and/or outside the circle of trust of family. It can be, if not must be, ignored.

    Live life without the artificial anxiety of saturation-level lies.

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    • Replies: @Kiza
    You certainly consumed your red pill and well, congratulations on your most healthy skepticism.

    Only add " and friends" to


    ... the confines of my own personal experience and/or outside the circle of trust of family
     
    Therefore, trust self, family and friends and no-one else.

    As I was getting older, one of the main discoveries was that in an objective world there is no such concept as "authority" (political, state, academic, scientific, medical and so on). This is most extreme in the "news", but also in "history". Whoever delivers "news" or "history" from a high perch of "authority" is almost certainly just an organized, systemic liar. One famous quip of this kind is: "do not believe anything until it has been officially denied". One cannot lie successfully without having authority, therefore the authority is established to lie successfully - one example, the MSM themselves.

    Once we break out of the confines of "authority", we achieve the true freedom of thought.

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  18. anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Haxo Angmark
    and then there's the "missing" 3rd shooter. Overall, though, this one looks like an actual and for real flag: because Muslim. They are what they are, and do what they do. And should not be here in the first place

    A hearty endorsement of Donald Trump’s declaration: NO MUSLIMS should be allowed into the US until further notice.

    And Muslims should reciprocate: Muslim nations should expel all Anglo- zionists until further notice.

    Read More
    • Replies: @KA
    Trump proposal to ban Muslims from US relies on debunked poll from pro-Israel think tank - See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/12/proposal-debunked-thinktank#sthash.keERIQeq.dpuf

    Frank Gaffney and Mark Steine are floating the ideas while the other half of their neocon brains reminding the amnestic American how un- American it would look like .

    , @random observer
    How much hardship would that Muslim reciprocation really generate?
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  19. jack ryan says: • Website

    The killings, mass rapes and enslavement of Greeks during the Muslim Turk sack of Constantinople – it was really an FBI false flag operation.

    The Muslim Moor’s 700 year occupation of Spain – another CIA/FBI/MOSSAD false flag operation.

    Islam is a religion of peace, the Muslims in places like the tribal border areas of Pakistan and Afghanistan – these Muslims are just like liberal White people in Vermont and Toronto Canada. Any minor cultural differences like the Muslims performing female genital mutilation and refusing to use soap, deodorant or toilet paper, well, that either isn’t important or somehow it’s the fault of White Conservative Christians who make the Muslims feel unwelcome and don’t give them multicultural hugs (something to do with smell).

    There is also the issue of the Muslims bringing back 1st century BC practices of …..

    Stoning to death people for things like blasphemy, adultery and well, some Muslims aren’t real big on gay rights – but hey, what are a few stoning deaths compared to the much worse homophobic actions of Conservative Christian bakers in Indiana who didn’t want to bake a homosexual marriage equality cake!

    Also, with regard to these Muslim stonings, no one is allowed to throw any stones until John Cleese blows his whistle, not even if they do say…… Jehovah ……. (stones rain down AHHHHHHHHHHH).

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    • Replies: @random observer
    Indeed. The lawyer for an Afghan-Canadian husband/son/second wife honour killing team just won a reconsideration of their conviction for that crime, on the grounds that using an expert witness to testify about the role of honour in Muslim societies prejudiced the jury.

    There was something to this insofar as perhaps the testimony was too general and not specific enough to Afghanistan, or too specific insofar as it may have excluded non-Muslim honour and kinship societies, and on and on and on.

    But all this academicism did not likely exclude the understanding that Afghanistan is one of the extreme honour killing societies at the heart of any venn diagram of all such societies, or bypass the key question of whether the family did or did not shove first wife and three daughters into the car and set it driving into the canal.

    Not that any of this poses any threat at all to wider Canadian society, of course, so there's that. But it would mean having to drag our canals and rivers periodically looking for such incidents and this is a waste of public money.
    , @Rehmat
    Your Zionist whining remind me Netanyahu's latest holocaust history - "Hitler didn't want to kill Jews. It was Mufti of Palestine who convinced Hitler to kill Jews."

    Muslim Moors invaded Spain to liberate Jews living as Serfs (slaves) under Christian rule. According to Jewish Orientalist, Bernard Lewis, within less than 100 year under Muslim-rule, Jews became the elites of the society and held several high positions at royal court. In 1492, when 850-year-old Muslim rule ended in Spain, Crusaders killed 175,000 Spanish Jews while sold tens of thousands of Jewish women to sex slavery.

    Muslims ruled Greece for nearly 350 years. They're tolerant to stupidity. The result is, now Athens has no mosque, but seven synagogues.

    http://rehmat1.com/2015/09/25/greece-anti-jew-minister-fired/
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  20. bondo says:
    @Jason
    Most conspiracy theories say "blah blah blah a bunch of Evil White Men really did it".

    It's past annoying at this point.

    what about the seen 3 (three) white guys in black at this “event”?

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    • Replies: @bomag
    It was an initial eye witness, who by calling them "white" probably meant that they weren't "black".
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  21. bondo says:

    when govt wants to go to more more against arabs, muslims for jewry/israel (and to remove the 2nd amend), always assume the u.s. govt or israel the actor behind the scenes.

    media will report whatever is required. media will agitate with declarations about the u.s. not being aggressive enough or being isolationist or slow or weak. think christiane amanpour berating the u.s. for not having already bombed serbia(?). think current mouthers declaring we should already be doing something violent after every incident.

    always think false flag and you will be accurate 99% of the time.

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    • Replies: @bondo
    2nd "more" should be "war"
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  22. KA says:
    @Fran Macadam
    I still think this:

    It’s a no brainer that if you’re bombing and killing folks in faraway lands mostly for profit and geopolitical chess games, that you’re going to make their relatives here unhappy. Some unknown but troubling number of them might do in revenge what even some few of us non-Muslims would do if the same were done to our families. Since it’s too late to send everyone back, since most are citizens, it might be wise not to be bombing or warring for ill defined or stupid reasons, the relatives of Americans. As Jesus put it, if we really are his “Crusaders,” “live by the sword, die by the sword.”

    Our war making is defeating nothing except our own liberties and safety both.

    The sadder fact is, there’s no protection possible by our government of us, except to stop its foreign war making, and the only defense in the short term is an armed citizenry that can stop the attacks as soon as they start.

    They could shut down immigration from those countries generating Islamic terrorism, until the government figures out what is going on. I mean, are we at war or aren’t we? How many Germans and Japanese immigrants were accepted during World War II? What did the Supreme Court say?

    But if they really wanted to know what’s going on, they could understand in a heartbeat.

    Well, I’ve figured out what’s going on, along with Ron Paul and many others. We’re involved in coups, bombings, wars and proxy wars, occupations, assassinations, dronings and intrigues playing both ends against the middle in Muslim lands, against their will. That’s what’s going on, Don, Hillary, Marco, Ted, Bernie and Barry. Why not put a stop to it, or would that interrupt the military-industrial profits and give too much legitimacy to the non-communist Russians, Alawite Syrians and the Iranian democracy?

    BTW, don’t be too sure the Supreme Court would shut down an executive order immigration restriction in the face of terrorism. So many draconian provisions exist in the Patriot Act: is it unAmerican? Not by Congress’ voting record. I know people who were supposed to become citizens in two weeks during Bush’s term after 9/11, but were delayed 6 years, and those were Anglo Canadians, after National Review raised a stink about someone getting to be a citizen who only knew someone with subversive connections in passing.

    I am fine with Donald’s demand of restricting immigration from muslim background as long as he makes good on his promises of withdrawing militarily from middle east ,shows no interest or shows even handedness to Israel Palestine conflicts , respects the international laws on NPT pertaining to Iran ,stops supporting Saudi in Bahrain and Yemen and compensates Libya for what it has done to it .
    It will be great if he could reorder an investigation on 911 and on those who orchestrated the Iraq war . An honest investigation of the neocons will not bring back those Iraqis we have killed but at least it will make sure that the justice is done and neocons never abuse the system again . Unless person like Wolfowitz or Ledeen or Libby or Liberman, or Power are punished for anti American activities the war against terror wont be won because they are the real terrorist who bleeds America to death in unnecessary war

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  23. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    It’s hard for the average person to get an accurate picture of what’s actually taking place because there’s so many actors out there whose role it is to lie, spin, distort and spread disinformation. Something happens and the wheels of spin start turning immediately to manage public perceptions. Because of this most people who trouble themselves to go beyond mere acceptance of the media accounts find that they end up doing a lot of guessing based on prior experience; sometimes they’re right, sometimes partly so and sometimes they’re way off.
    All of the supposed ‘foiled plots’ have been government setups with none-too-bright patsies. They can crow about their success and get more money budgeted. It’s possible this couple were egged on by a government agent but we’ll never know for sure, will we? Their act of terrorism was hardly a blow to the power structure but was low on the food chain, hitting low-level people at some obscure location. We’re living in an environment of lies and manipulation, like being in a funhouse of distorting mirrors and trying to find our way out.

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  24. Rurik says:

    Where, for example, is the investigative report on the disastrous U.S. decision to invade Iraq which used fake intelligence and might have amounted to a criminal conspiracy to go to war? If such a review had ever taken place a few neoconservatives might well be hanging out to dry in some federal prison rather than appearing on Sunday morning talk television. Truth, or at least the government version thereof, is clearly selective.

    hear, hear!

    Where indeed?

    I would like to see what’s left of the sane and rational Western world find a way to indict Tony Blair as the first domino to fall. His crimes seem glaring enough, his lies and treachery to drag his country into an illegal war brazen enough. And the British people, stupid and craven as they are, are not nearly as stupid and craven as Americanus Bovinus.

    Once Blair receives a trial and is convicted and sentenced to the Hague for life, then on to Bush and Cheney!

    (I can dream can’t I?)

    exploited “honeypot”

    {for the record, your selection of the view angle of the photo you’re using is shameless Mr. G}

    personally I’m reserving my opinion on the likelihood that this latest atrocity was a false flag or not. The neocons running the government want our borders to stay wide open, that’s obvious. So as this act plays into the hands of Trump, I just don’t see why they would do such a thing. A false flag has to have a motive, like 911 to get Americans to slaughter Israel’s enemies.

    Perhaps they are trying to get Americans even more pissed off at Muslims so we’ll agree to boots on the ground in Syria.

    I wonder who are the ones who would make such decisions?

    Bibi? -who then tells the CIA what he and his crew have decided is going to be done? Who then passes the word onto the White House?

    who is the decider?

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  25. KA says:
    @anonymous
    A hearty endorsement of Donald Trump's declaration: NO MUSLIMS should be allowed into the US until further notice.


    And Muslims should reciprocate: Muslim nations should expel all Anglo- zionists until further notice.

    Trump proposal to ban Muslims from US relies on debunked poll from pro-Israel think tank – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/12/proposal-debunked-thinktank#sthash.keERIQeq.dpuf

    Frank Gaffney and Mark Steine are floating the ideas while the other half of their neocon brains reminding the amnestic American how un- American it would look like .

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  26. If one were set up an ISIS-linked marriage agency intended to entice lonely young men who have western passports it might be relatively easy to staff. And once the couple is actually married and in place in Europe or the U.S. there comes the indoctrination phase and you wind up with a radicalized agent in place who is at least somewhat above suspicion and carrying a passport that can be used to travel worldwide.

    Let me get this narrative straight. The “terrorists”, ISIS, have this on-line marriage agency (or I guess could use an existing on-line marriage agency) and they put their female jihadists on there to marry Western muslims. And you, a retired intelligence professional, find this to be a credible story.

    Hmm….

    Mr. Giraldi (and the gallery…) let’s think about this a second. From the perspective of the people behind this machination. They recruit the young woman who is willing to do this. She puts her profile online on this web page and attracts one or more western suitors. The plan is that she eventually marry one, go to the western country, and then, at some later point in time, carry out a jihadi suicide mission like this one.

    First question: How much lead time is necessary typically between the woman volunteering to play this role and her carrying out the mission in the target country?

    In this specific case, the couple had, apparently, a six-month-old baby, thus knew one another (in the biblical sense) for at least 15 months prior. However, there was a prior period of online courtship as well as the mundane matters of paperwork to bring the new bride over to America and so on. Also, a young lady does not put her profile online and attract serious marriage proposals the very same day. So it seems reasonable that in this case, if this story were true, there must be at least around 2 years between the woman being recruited by the terrorists and her carrying out the operation.

    2 years. Is it a reasonable plan for a terrorist organization to be able to to recruit somebody to do this and then to rely on that person to carry out the suicide mission on some date at least 2 years into the future? If I were the planner of this and had a young person willing to kill herself for a cause in front of me, would I make some plan and count on her still being willing to do so in December of 2017, let’s say? Is this a realistic plan for a terrorist operation?

    It goes beyond that. Not only am I counting on this young lady to go through with this on some date maybe a couple of years after volunteering, but it involves her being able to convince her new husband to participate as well. (!!??)

    Now, at some point, I looked into the history of a suicide operation that indisputably took place. The Japanese kamikaze pilots in World War 2. You know, the Kamikaze pilots, once they volunteered for this, were kept in a special environment, where they were very constantly indoctrinated. Of course, the whole kamikaze campaign was only in the very final year of the war, and thus, there was no issue with somebody volunteering to be a kamikaze, and his handlers counting on him being willing to go through with it 2 years later! (I doubt there was more than a month or two between somebody volunteering to be a kamikaze and carrying out the operation, and in that time, they were kept in a special environment to maintain their patriotic fervor to die for their country.)

    Moreover, the young lady was living in some suburb in the United States, interacting (at least minimally) with American neighbors, for over a year before the attack. So the planner is counting on her to still be willing to go kill random Americans for the cause after this. (And convince her husband.) And kill herself despite having a newborn baby, which could have been anticipated by her handlers as well. In any case, if she was recruited as a suicide agent, why would her handlers wait until she was there a year and had a baby in order to pull the trigger on the attacks? Why not have her do it once she was there? Why would she be living in California for an entire year prior to carrying out the attack?

    Another question: To recruit one such suicide jihadist young lady, how many young ladies, on average, would you have to approach and interview before you found a single one who agreed to do it?

    I have no idea. 100, 200, 300? I would guess at a higher number offhand, but I have no idea really. And where would you find these people? But if you had to propose this to 100 young ladies to find a single one willing to do it, how could you keep the overall operation secret? Wouldn’t any of the 99 ladies who declined to do this spill the beans?

    And using a woman to trap a prospective agent is not exactly that unusual in clandestine operations. The Soviets had their “sparrows” and western intelligence exploited “honeypot” operations.

    Mr. Giraldi, how many of these Soviet “sparrow” or western intelligence “honeypot” operations involved the “sparrow” or “honeypot” committing suicide?

    So I am actually kind of inclined towards the viability of the marriage agency idea and I will explain why.

    You are “inclined towards the viability” of the marriage agency sort of op, eh? Did any of the problems I outline above occur to you?

    Now, even if, for the sake of argument, Mr. Giraldi, I agreed (or pretended to agree) that such an operation was “viable”, is there the slightest shred of proof that this narrative is true?

    All of which means that nothing would come to the surface even if Tashfeen Malik had been a raving militant, which just might have been the case.

    Of course, if Tashfeen Malik were just a normal young woman using a normal matrimonial agency, nothing would come to the surface either….

    (If you, Mr. Giraldi were a psychopathic murderer and I met you, I might not detect anything abnormal. (Bring on the spooky music….) Of course, if you were a normal person and I met you, I might also not detect anything odd either…. So isn’t this all a tad vacuous, Mr. Giraldi?)

    Anyway, you know, a further point is that, even if a background check came up with glaring red lights and Deep State operatives wanted this attack to to go forward because it suited their agenda, then we can suppose that she would have been given the go-ahead to immigrate nonetheless, no?

    But regardless…. this matrimonial agency story… Mr. Giraldi, is this maybe your proverbial “jumping the shark” moment? Don’t get me wrong, I have read your articles for some time now and do not have a bad opinion of you on that basis, but now that I have read this jihadi matrimonial agency story — which, as far as I can see, cannot possibly be true for extremely obvious reasons — it will be hard for me to ever take anything you say seriously again. Granted, you may not care, probably don’t, but I guess it’s only fair to tell you this…

    That probably applies to other people as well. I can only speak for myself, but when I hear this stuff from somebody, that’s it! I can’t take the person seriously after that, sorry. But I guess you don’t mind.

    Maybe the joke is on me and all this jihadi matrimonial agency thing is in jest. But we’re still a long ways from April 1, Mr. Giraldi.

    Oh, final question, Mr. Giraldi, just in case you didn’t mistake the date for 1 April and are serious, what specifically is the motive for the people back in Saudi Arabia to do all this? To recruit a woman to marry a western guy, go live in the West, radicalize the dude, and jointly Bonnie and Clyde style, go blazing off into jihadidom…. what’s the motive? All the “sparrow” and honeypot” operations in the Cold War had some discernible motive, no? What is the motive here?

    I don’t know whether, in your intel career, you actually were involved in secret operations. But, let’s suppose you were, and you had an asset planted in a western country, somebody so dedicated that she was willing to kill herself if you asked her to do so. Would you waste that asset in order to kill some random disabled people there in San Bernardino????

    This is all a put-on, isn’t it, Mr. Giraldi. Surely you jest….

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    • Replies: @RobinG
    Personally, I'm disappointed with Phil's essay. I figured we'd at least get a debunking of the 3 athletic white guys. Have those witnesses retracted? Maybe confirmation that San Bernardino cops handcuff dead people. Have any survivors ID'd the alleged perps? (Who are your friends anyway, Phil? Don't you know Jim Dean, Gordon Duff, et al? They get around, conferences in Teheran and whatnot.)

    But Jon, while I think it's more likely this couple had nothing to do with it, your long, drawn-out criticism of the marriage bureau theory is an unfortunate testament to your profound lack of imagination.
    , @Wizard of Oz
    Wow! Look what happens when he takes his medication. And thanks to his dear long suffering Mum who hovered over him to make sure he didn't let loose with the gratuitous vitriol which is emitted when he's in an overwrought state. BTW did you pick up the modest hint that he's related to John Nash?
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  27. jack ryan says: • Website
    @Anonymous
    http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2015/12/07/another-false-flag-attack/

    Another false flag attack that dumbshit Americans will fall for hook, line, and sinker
     

    Is this old loon Paul Craig Roberts still alive?

    He was apparently a close friend of Peter Brimelow and Peter purchased the rights to publish Paul Craig Roberts’ articles on Vdare. None of them ever addressed the vdare issues of the Nationalist question, immigration and most were just rants hating Israel and the Israeli lobby and had fallen in to Democracy Now nonsense that all the problems in the Arab/Muslim 3rd world were caused by American foreign policy, racism, Israel was just like Apartheid South Africa – like that was so bad.

    The Zulu King has just stated the truth the Afrikanner rule of South Africa under Apartheid was infinitely better than Black ANC rule.

    #*(@*#@ Paul Craig Roberts – so he hates Neo Conservatives, Zionists or just the Jews. I’m supposed to look the other way while 950,000 plus nastiest Muslm men migrants invade Europe so Paul Craig Roberts can spread wild, completely unsubstantiated conspiracy theory nonsense like 9/11/01 wasn’t done by Islamic extremists.

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    • Replies: @Rurik
    PCR has more integrity in his toe jam than you could muster in a thousand lifetimes

    you're not even worthy of being mentioned with PCR's toe jam in the same sentence

    completely unsubstantiated conspiracy theory nonsense like 9/11/01 wasn’t done by Islamic extremists.
     
    yea, they even magically brought down three building by only hitting two!

    those dastardly Muslims with their magical tricks!
    , @Ken Hoop
    You don't have to look the other way, Jack, you could oppose the Invade the World Invite the World imperialism, in this case anglo-zionist imperialism, that helps produce conspiracy theories.
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  28. I’m sort of indeterminate on Conspiracy Theories these days Once you catch the government lying and covering up you lose faith in pretty much anything they say. I didn’t pay much attention to 9 11 when it happened and for several years thereafter I assumed that the authorities would sort things out. It never occurred to me that something as big as 9 11 could be a false flag.

    I was wrong.

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  29. Rurik says:
    @jack ryan
    Is this old loon Paul Craig Roberts still alive?

    He was apparently a close friend of Peter Brimelow and Peter purchased the rights to publish Paul Craig Roberts' articles on Vdare. None of them ever addressed the vdare issues of the Nationalist question, immigration and most were just rants hating Israel and the Israeli lobby and had fallen in to Democracy Now nonsense that all the problems in the Arab/Muslim 3rd world were caused by American foreign policy, racism, Israel was just like Apartheid South Africa - like that was so bad.

    The Zulu King has just stated the truth the Afrikanner rule of South Africa under Apartheid was infinitely better than Black ANC rule.

    #*(@*#@ Paul Craig Roberts - so he hates Neo Conservatives, Zionists or just the Jews. I'm supposed to look the other way while 950,000 plus nastiest Muslm men migrants invade Europe so Paul Craig Roberts can spread wild, completely unsubstantiated conspiracy theory nonsense like 9/11/01 wasn't done by Islamic extremists.

    PCR has more integrity in his toe jam than you could muster in a thousand lifetimes

    you’re not even worthy of being mentioned with PCR’s toe jam in the same sentence

    completely unsubstantiated conspiracy theory nonsense like 9/11/01 wasn’t done by Islamic extremists.

    yea, they even magically brought down three building by only hitting two!

    those dastardly Muslims with their magical tricks!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Old fogey
    If you recall, the final building to fall was World Trade Center building number 7 - and that building came down long after ALL the previous six buildings were destroyed. And this happened without any of the buildings surrounding the World Trade Center site collapsing. Strange goings-on indeed.
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  30. @Fran Macadam
    I still think this:

    It’s a no brainer that if you’re bombing and killing folks in faraway lands mostly for profit and geopolitical chess games, that you’re going to make their relatives here unhappy. Some unknown but troubling number of them might do in revenge what even some few of us non-Muslims would do if the same were done to our families. Since it’s too late to send everyone back, since most are citizens, it might be wise not to be bombing or warring for ill defined or stupid reasons, the relatives of Americans. As Jesus put it, if we really are his “Crusaders,” “live by the sword, die by the sword.”

    Our war making is defeating nothing except our own liberties and safety both.

    The sadder fact is, there’s no protection possible by our government of us, except to stop its foreign war making, and the only defense in the short term is an armed citizenry that can stop the attacks as soon as they start.

    They could shut down immigration from those countries generating Islamic terrorism, until the government figures out what is going on. I mean, are we at war or aren’t we? How many Germans and Japanese immigrants were accepted during World War II? What did the Supreme Court say?

    But if they really wanted to know what’s going on, they could understand in a heartbeat.

    Well, I’ve figured out what’s going on, along with Ron Paul and many others. We’re involved in coups, bombings, wars and proxy wars, occupations, assassinations, dronings and intrigues playing both ends against the middle in Muslim lands, against their will. That’s what’s going on, Don, Hillary, Marco, Ted, Bernie and Barry. Why not put a stop to it, or would that interrupt the military-industrial profits and give too much legitimacy to the non-communist Russians, Alawite Syrians and the Iranian democracy?

    BTW, don’t be too sure the Supreme Court would shut down an executive order immigration restriction in the face of terrorism. So many draconian provisions exist in the Patriot Act: is it unAmerican? Not by Congress’ voting record. I know people who were supposed to become citizens in two weeks during Bush’s term after 9/11, but were delayed 6 years, and those were Anglo Canadians, after National Review raised a stink about someone getting to be a citizen who only knew someone with subversive connections in passing.

    I tend to suspect the Supreme Court would have something to say about such immigration and citizenship restrictions being imposed, but the real question ought to be, why should it?

    Nobody has a right to settle in someone else’s country, and a country can and should retain the right to control immigration however arbitrary its criteria. The only possible restriction could be signed and ratified international treaties to which said country signed on. As the immigrants are not yet members of the US body politic, how can they have rights under the Constitution that created and regulates that body?

    For those who are permanent residents, they could have a case. On broad principle, they are still not citizens, so their claim on rights cannot be total [ and isn't; citizenship is not an automatic right at any point], but they have committed time and effort to the US and have jumped through the hoops put in their way in order to move toward citizenship. There may be a case that a contractual relationship has been created and the US cannot change the terms for those already in place. Not sure how that hearing would go.

    But for immigrants not yet settled, what possible claim could they have if the US just outright refused to consider them?

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  31. @anonymous
    A hearty endorsement of Donald Trump's declaration: NO MUSLIMS should be allowed into the US until further notice.


    And Muslims should reciprocate: Muslim nations should expel all Anglo- zionists until further notice.

    How much hardship would that Muslim reciprocation really generate?

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  32. joe webb says:

    ho hum article just right for Unz Review…and the nuttiness generally out there about false flags.

    Whereas: it is generally agreed that we live in a time of Globalism, economically speaking, the appropriate ideology to accompany Globalism is racial equality. Don’t want to step on anybody’s toes.

    Whereas: all the media, from left to left, try to get us to accept Islam as a Religion of Peace. Ditto the Obongo et al, and most Repugnicans. This is part of the Humanist/Market ideology as well.

    Whereas: there is ample evidence of muzzie rage historically, both past and present, the various terroristic acts here are no different than those abroad, both in Europe and the Middle East.

    Whereas : there is almost a thousand years of attack and occupation of Europe by muzzies. There is nothing new here with regard to the 50 million muzzies in Europe except White pathological altruism and Globalist ideology.

    Whereas: the guv’mnt is Up to Something, stock in trade of guys like Girardi, Girardi is probably an agent and muddying the water with his on the one hand and on the other hand.

    Conclusion: He has some kind of agenda, personal and/or gov’t to plant the false flag of They’re Up To Something, and confuse the sophomores. Muzzies are very dangerous and must be removed like Trump says. The bleeding hearts will weep and the globalists will cluck…like Girardi.

    I have had personal acquaintance with several muzzies cuz I was active in the Iraq Sanctions movement about 15 years ago. They are natural born extremists, and not smart. average IQ is about 85; they also like negro rap, which correlates with low intelligence. They are very emotionally reactive.

    All of this predates the conquest of Palestine by the Jews. ( Yes, they have some cause, but there is nothing we can do about that right now)

    Joe Webb

    PS the usual conspiracy theories always overlook the obvious. Why some little Health Dept in the middle of nowhere, instead of downtown LA for example? Answer: because stupid people do stupid things. Smart people sometimes do likewise.

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  33. @jack ryan
    The killings, mass rapes and enslavement of Greeks during the Muslim Turk sack of Constantinople - it was really an FBI false flag operation.

    The Muslim Moor's 700 year occupation of Spain - another CIA/FBI/MOSSAD false flag operation.

    Islam is a religion of peace, the Muslims in places like the tribal border areas of Pakistan and Afghanistan - these Muslims are just like liberal White people in Vermont and Toronto Canada. Any minor cultural differences like the Muslims performing female genital mutilation and refusing to use soap, deodorant or toilet paper, well, that either isn't important or somehow it's the fault of White Conservative Christians who make the Muslims feel unwelcome and don't give them multicultural hugs (something to do with smell).

    There is also the issue of the Muslims bringing back 1st century BC practices of .....

    Stoning to death people for things like blasphemy, adultery and well, some Muslims aren't real big on gay rights - but hey, what are a few stoning deaths compared to the much worse homophobic actions of Conservative Christian bakers in Indiana who didn't want to bake a homosexual marriage equality cake!

    Also, with regard to these Muslim stonings, no one is allowed to throw any stones until John Cleese blows his whistle, not even if they do say...... Jehovah ....... (stones rain down AHHHHHHHHHHH).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDe9msExUK8

    Indeed. The lawyer for an Afghan-Canadian husband/son/second wife honour killing team just won a reconsideration of their conviction for that crime, on the grounds that using an expert witness to testify about the role of honour in Muslim societies prejudiced the jury.

    There was something to this insofar as perhaps the testimony was too general and not specific enough to Afghanistan, or too specific insofar as it may have excluded non-Muslim honour and kinship societies, and on and on and on.

    But all this academicism did not likely exclude the understanding that Afghanistan is one of the extreme honour killing societies at the heart of any venn diagram of all such societies, or bypass the key question of whether the family did or did not shove first wife and three daughters into the car and set it driving into the canal.

    Not that any of this poses any threat at all to wider Canadian society, of course, so there’s that. But it would mean having to drag our canals and rivers periodically looking for such incidents and this is a waste of public money.

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  34. General question — even if San Bernardino is a false flag and even if Trump’s call is based on faulty information, etc., why would one then have to oppose restricting Muslim immigration? Shouldn’t that be a separate gain/loss equation?

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  35. bomag says:
    @bondo
    what about the seen 3 (three) white guys in black at this "event"?

    It was an initial eye witness, who by calling them “white” probably meant that they weren’t “black”.

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    • Replies: @bondo
    3 athletic white guys
    they were called white because they were white as in white
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  36. RobinG says:
    @Jonathan Revusky

    If one were set up an ISIS-linked marriage agency intended to entice lonely young men who have western passports it might be relatively easy to staff. And once the couple is actually married and in place in Europe or the U.S. there comes the indoctrination phase and you wind up with a radicalized agent in place who is at least somewhat above suspicion and carrying a passport that can be used to travel worldwide.
     
    Let me get this narrative straight. The "terrorists", ISIS, have this on-line marriage agency (or I guess could use an existing on-line marriage agency) and they put their female jihadists on there to marry Western muslims. And you, a retired intelligence professional, find this to be a credible story.

    Hmm....

    Mr. Giraldi (and the gallery...) let's think about this a second. From the perspective of the people behind this machination. They recruit the young woman who is willing to do this. She puts her profile online on this web page and attracts one or more western suitors. The plan is that she eventually marry one, go to the western country, and then, at some later point in time, carry out a jihadi suicide mission like this one.

    First question: How much lead time is necessary typically between the woman volunteering to play this role and her carrying out the mission in the target country?

    In this specific case, the couple had, apparently, a six-month-old baby, thus knew one another (in the biblical sense) for at least 15 months prior. However, there was a prior period of online courtship as well as the mundane matters of paperwork to bring the new bride over to America and so on. Also, a young lady does not put her profile online and attract serious marriage proposals the very same day. So it seems reasonable that in this case, if this story were true, there must be at least around 2 years between the woman being recruited by the terrorists and her carrying out the operation.

    2 years. Is it a reasonable plan for a terrorist organization to be able to to recruit somebody to do this and then to rely on that person to carry out the suicide mission on some date at least 2 years into the future? If I were the planner of this and had a young person willing to kill herself for a cause in front of me, would I make some plan and count on her still being willing to do so in December of 2017, let's say? Is this a realistic plan for a terrorist operation?

    It goes beyond that. Not only am I counting on this young lady to go through with this on some date maybe a couple of years after volunteering, but it involves her being able to convince her new husband to participate as well. (!!??)

    Now, at some point, I looked into the history of a suicide operation that indisputably took place. The Japanese kamikaze pilots in World War 2. You know, the Kamikaze pilots, once they volunteered for this, were kept in a special environment, where they were very constantly indoctrinated. Of course, the whole kamikaze campaign was only in the very final year of the war, and thus, there was no issue with somebody volunteering to be a kamikaze, and his handlers counting on him being willing to go through with it 2 years later! (I doubt there was more than a month or two between somebody volunteering to be a kamikaze and carrying out the operation, and in that time, they were kept in a special environment to maintain their patriotic fervor to die for their country.)

    Moreover, the young lady was living in some suburb in the United States, interacting (at least minimally) with American neighbors, for over a year before the attack. So the planner is counting on her to still be willing to go kill random Americans for the cause after this. (And convince her husband.) And kill herself despite having a newborn baby, which could have been anticipated by her handlers as well. In any case, if she was recruited as a suicide agent, why would her handlers wait until she was there a year and had a baby in order to pull the trigger on the attacks? Why not have her do it once she was there? Why would she be living in California for an entire year prior to carrying out the attack?

    Another question: To recruit one such suicide jihadist young lady, how many young ladies, on average, would you have to approach and interview before you found a single one who agreed to do it?

    I have no idea. 100, 200, 300? I would guess at a higher number offhand, but I have no idea really. And where would you find these people? But if you had to propose this to 100 young ladies to find a single one willing to do it, how could you keep the overall operation secret? Wouldn't any of the 99 ladies who declined to do this spill the beans?

    And using a woman to trap a prospective agent is not exactly that unusual in clandestine operations. The Soviets had their “sparrows” and western intelligence exploited “honeypot” operations.

     

    Mr. Giraldi, how many of these Soviet "sparrow" or western intelligence "honeypot" operations involved the "sparrow" or "honeypot" committing suicide?

    So I am actually kind of inclined towards the viability of the marriage agency idea and I will explain why.
     
    You are "inclined towards the viability" of the marriage agency sort of op, eh? Did any of the problems I outline above occur to you?

    Now, even if, for the sake of argument, Mr. Giraldi, I agreed (or pretended to agree) that such an operation was "viable", is there the slightest shred of proof that this narrative is true?

    All of which means that nothing would come to the surface even if Tashfeen Malik had been a raving militant, which just might have been the case.
     
    Of course, if Tashfeen Malik were just a normal young woman using a normal matrimonial agency, nothing would come to the surface either....

    (If you, Mr. Giraldi were a psychopathic murderer and I met you, I might not detect anything abnormal. (Bring on the spooky music....) Of course, if you were a normal person and I met you, I might also not detect anything odd either.... So isn't this all a tad vacuous, Mr. Giraldi?)

    Anyway, you know, a further point is that, even if a background check came up with glaring red lights and Deep State operatives wanted this attack to to go forward because it suited their agenda, then we can suppose that she would have been given the go-ahead to immigrate nonetheless, no?

    But regardless.... this matrimonial agency story... Mr. Giraldi, is this maybe your proverbial "jumping the shark" moment? Don't get me wrong, I have read your articles for some time now and do not have a bad opinion of you on that basis, but now that I have read this jihadi matrimonial agency story -- which, as far as I can see, cannot possibly be true for extremely obvious reasons -- it will be hard for me to ever take anything you say seriously again. Granted, you may not care, probably don't, but I guess it's only fair to tell you this...

    That probably applies to other people as well. I can only speak for myself, but when I hear this stuff from somebody, that's it! I can't take the person seriously after that, sorry. But I guess you don't mind.

    Maybe the joke is on me and all this jihadi matrimonial agency thing is in jest. But we're still a long ways from April 1, Mr. Giraldi.

    Oh, final question, Mr. Giraldi, just in case you didn't mistake the date for 1 April and are serious, what specifically is the motive for the people back in Saudi Arabia to do all this? To recruit a woman to marry a western guy, go live in the West, radicalize the dude, and jointly Bonnie and Clyde style, go blazing off into jihadidom.... what's the motive? All the "sparrow" and honeypot" operations in the Cold War had some discernible motive, no? What is the motive here?

    I don't know whether, in your intel career, you actually were involved in secret operations. But, let's suppose you were, and you had an asset planted in a western country, somebody so dedicated that she was willing to kill herself if you asked her to do so. Would you waste that asset in order to kill some random disabled people there in San Bernardino????

    This is all a put-on, isn't it, Mr. Giraldi. Surely you jest....

    Personally, I’m disappointed with Phil’s essay. I figured we’d at least get a debunking of the 3 athletic white guys. Have those witnesses retracted? Maybe confirmation that San Bernardino cops handcuff dead people. Have any survivors ID’d the alleged perps? (Who are your friends anyway, Phil? Don’t you know Jim Dean, Gordon Duff, et al? They get around, conferences in Teheran and whatnot.)

    But Jon, while I think it’s more likely this couple had nothing to do with it, your long, drawn-out criticism of the marriage bureau theory is an unfortunate testament to your profound lack of imagination.

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    • Replies: @Jonathan Revusky

    But Jon, while I think it’s more likely this couple had nothing to do with it, your long, drawn-out criticism of the marriage bureau theory is an unfortunate testament to your profound lack of imagination.
     
    Maybe you're right, Robin. Could be. But it wasn't for lack of trying. I tried to imagine it and just kept hitting problems with the narrative, and concluded that it was ludicrous.

    And, since I came to that conclusion and Phil seemed to be seriously entertaining this possibility, I thought it right and proper to share my critique. Did I do something wrong?

    Now, while I likely do lack imagination, I think I have a well developed sense of humor. And, it really seems to me that the jihadi marriage bureau... that is potentially comedic gold. Think what Monty Python could do with that. The "Jihadist marriage bureau skit". That would outdo the argument shop skit or the dead parrot pet shop skit handily. Just imagine John Cleese sauntering into some office and saying in his goofy upper class twit English accent: "Good day. Is this the Jihadist marriage bureau?"

    Or imagine a stand-up comic like the late Richard Pryor. He'd just announce "Now, I'm going to do my Jihadist marriage bureau monologue" and already half the audience would be in stitches laughing, just in anticipation.
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  37. bomag says:
    @Fran Macadam
    I still think this:

    It’s a no brainer that if you’re bombing and killing folks in faraway lands mostly for profit and geopolitical chess games, that you’re going to make their relatives here unhappy. Some unknown but troubling number of them might do in revenge what even some few of us non-Muslims would do if the same were done to our families. Since it’s too late to send everyone back, since most are citizens, it might be wise not to be bombing or warring for ill defined or stupid reasons, the relatives of Americans. As Jesus put it, if we really are his “Crusaders,” “live by the sword, die by the sword.”

    Our war making is defeating nothing except our own liberties and safety both.

    The sadder fact is, there’s no protection possible by our government of us, except to stop its foreign war making, and the only defense in the short term is an armed citizenry that can stop the attacks as soon as they start.

    They could shut down immigration from those countries generating Islamic terrorism, until the government figures out what is going on. I mean, are we at war or aren’t we? How many Germans and Japanese immigrants were accepted during World War II? What did the Supreme Court say?

    But if they really wanted to know what’s going on, they could understand in a heartbeat.

    Well, I’ve figured out what’s going on, along with Ron Paul and many others. We’re involved in coups, bombings, wars and proxy wars, occupations, assassinations, dronings and intrigues playing both ends against the middle in Muslim lands, against their will. That’s what’s going on, Don, Hillary, Marco, Ted, Bernie and Barry. Why not put a stop to it, or would that interrupt the military-industrial profits and give too much legitimacy to the non-communist Russians, Alawite Syrians and the Iranian democracy?

    BTW, don’t be too sure the Supreme Court would shut down an executive order immigration restriction in the face of terrorism. So many draconian provisions exist in the Patriot Act: is it unAmerican? Not by Congress’ voting record. I know people who were supposed to become citizens in two weeks during Bush’s term after 9/11, but were delayed 6 years, and those were Anglo Canadians, after National Review raised a stink about someone getting to be a citizen who only knew someone with subversive connections in passing.

    Some unknown but troubling number of them might do in revenge what even some few of us non-Muslims would do if the same were done to our families.

    Please tell them to target the administration and congressional leaders that foster the stuff. Instead we get killings of people who largely don’t support those policies.

    Back in the day a guy killed Archduke Ferdinand because of this stuff. Now we get people bombing daycares, and some are so deluded that they think this is a legitimate route for political change.

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    • Replies: @bondo
    that indicates it is the govt
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  38. Ken Hoop says:
    @jack ryan
    Is this old loon Paul Craig Roberts still alive?

    He was apparently a close friend of Peter Brimelow and Peter purchased the rights to publish Paul Craig Roberts' articles on Vdare. None of them ever addressed the vdare issues of the Nationalist question, immigration and most were just rants hating Israel and the Israeli lobby and had fallen in to Democracy Now nonsense that all the problems in the Arab/Muslim 3rd world were caused by American foreign policy, racism, Israel was just like Apartheid South Africa - like that was so bad.

    The Zulu King has just stated the truth the Afrikanner rule of South Africa under Apartheid was infinitely better than Black ANC rule.

    #*(@*#@ Paul Craig Roberts - so he hates Neo Conservatives, Zionists or just the Jews. I'm supposed to look the other way while 950,000 plus nastiest Muslm men migrants invade Europe so Paul Craig Roberts can spread wild, completely unsubstantiated conspiracy theory nonsense like 9/11/01 wasn't done by Islamic extremists.

    You don’t have to look the other way, Jack, you could oppose the Invade the World Invite the World imperialism, in this case anglo-zionist imperialism, that helps produce conspiracy theories.

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  39. @RobinG
    Personally, I'm disappointed with Phil's essay. I figured we'd at least get a debunking of the 3 athletic white guys. Have those witnesses retracted? Maybe confirmation that San Bernardino cops handcuff dead people. Have any survivors ID'd the alleged perps? (Who are your friends anyway, Phil? Don't you know Jim Dean, Gordon Duff, et al? They get around, conferences in Teheran and whatnot.)

    But Jon, while I think it's more likely this couple had nothing to do with it, your long, drawn-out criticism of the marriage bureau theory is an unfortunate testament to your profound lack of imagination.

    But Jon, while I think it’s more likely this couple had nothing to do with it, your long, drawn-out criticism of the marriage bureau theory is an unfortunate testament to your profound lack of imagination.

    Maybe you’re right, Robin. Could be. But it wasn’t for lack of trying. I tried to imagine it and just kept hitting problems with the narrative, and concluded that it was ludicrous.

    And, since I came to that conclusion and Phil seemed to be seriously entertaining this possibility, I thought it right and proper to share my critique. Did I do something wrong?

    Now, while I likely do lack imagination, I think I have a well developed sense of humor. And, it really seems to me that the jihadi marriage bureau… that is potentially comedic gold. Think what Monty Python could do with that. The “Jihadist marriage bureau skit”. That would outdo the argument shop skit or the dead parrot pet shop skit handily. Just imagine John Cleese sauntering into some office and saying in his goofy upper class twit English accent: “Good day. Is this the Jihadist marriage bureau?”

    Or imagine a stand-up comic like the late Richard Pryor. He’d just announce “Now, I’m going to do my Jihadist marriage bureau monologue” and already half the audience would be in stitches laughing, just in anticipation.

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    • Replies: @RobinG
    Not time to go thru your post again, but the 'problems' you hit were not so big. Besides lack of imagination, I was going to add impatience. Patience is what sleeper cells are all about. Of course, Phil may just be pulling our leg, who knows.

    Indeed, Monty Python would have a good time with this. These guys must also be fans:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnRKhf4IDu4
    When ISIS attack Muslims but not #Israel
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  40. KA says:

    “. . A U.S.-Iran rapprochement under these circumstances would come at the expense of Israel’s interest rather than enhancing Israel’s regional position. “There was a feeling in Israel that because of the end of the Cold War, relations with the U.S. were cooling and we needed some new glue for the alliance. And the new glue… was radical Islam. And Iran was radical Islam,” Israeli analyst Efraim Inbar told me in October 2004.”

    http://nationalinterest.org/feature/can-washington-separate-its-iran-policy-israel-14485

    The new enemy brings much needed relief to the media starving for sensation. It provides spacefor the leaders to sound more bombastic and shrill. It also fashions the argument for TV honcho ,syndicated columnists and eavngelicals what the priority is for the country .
    Israel knows a peace oriented foreign policy by US will lead to the demise of the garrison occupier state of Israel.

    Despite the capacity to challenge the thinking, citizenry accept this as existential threat and go on with their business .

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  41. RobinG says:
    @Jonathan Revusky

    But Jon, while I think it’s more likely this couple had nothing to do with it, your long, drawn-out criticism of the marriage bureau theory is an unfortunate testament to your profound lack of imagination.
     
    Maybe you're right, Robin. Could be. But it wasn't for lack of trying. I tried to imagine it and just kept hitting problems with the narrative, and concluded that it was ludicrous.

    And, since I came to that conclusion and Phil seemed to be seriously entertaining this possibility, I thought it right and proper to share my critique. Did I do something wrong?

    Now, while I likely do lack imagination, I think I have a well developed sense of humor. And, it really seems to me that the jihadi marriage bureau... that is potentially comedic gold. Think what Monty Python could do with that. The "Jihadist marriage bureau skit". That would outdo the argument shop skit or the dead parrot pet shop skit handily. Just imagine John Cleese sauntering into some office and saying in his goofy upper class twit English accent: "Good day. Is this the Jihadist marriage bureau?"

    Or imagine a stand-up comic like the late Richard Pryor. He'd just announce "Now, I'm going to do my Jihadist marriage bureau monologue" and already half the audience would be in stitches laughing, just in anticipation.

    Not time to go thru your post again, but the ‘problems’ you hit were not so big. Besides lack of imagination, I was going to add impatience. Patience is what sleeper cells are all about. Of course, Phil may just be pulling our leg, who knows.

    Indeed, Monty Python would have a good time with this. These guys must also be fans:

    When ISIS attack Muslims but not #Israel

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    • Replies: @Jonathan Revusky

    the ‘problems’ you hit were not so big.
     
    Well, okay, Robin. 'Big', after all, is a relative concept. Let's say that I see Everest size problems with the "Jihadist matrimonial agency" story. You, on the other hand, only see... let's say.... Kim Kardashian's ass-sized problems with it.... big, but not soooo big.... okay, fine...

    So, let's see... what specifically are we in disagreement about then? You are seemingly reproaching me for overstating how absurd the "Jihadist marriage bureau" story is. I characterize it as utterly ludicrous, while your position would be more like that the story is just rather farfetched.

    But be that as it may, neither of us believe the story! (And I kinda doubt Mr. Giraldi does either!) So we're not in very much disagreement about much at all, are we?

    So what is puzzling here is what you are reproaching me for then. As best I can understand, you are bothered by the sarcastic tone I took with Mr. Giraldi. Unfortunately, the best defense you can make is that Giraldi's "Jihadist matrimonial agency" story, while not believable, is still less absurd than I am claiming it is. And that's a bit weak, isn't it?

    It bothers you that I took off the kid gloves with poor Phil. I was not being sufficiently obsequious to him.... Well.... okay... but let me be just straightforward and honest with you. I'm sick and tired of these fucking gatekeepers, man. Okay, I understand the guy is CIA (ex-CIA if such a thing exists) and can't tell the full truth about anything. But must he really insult our intelligence with the Jihadist matrimonial agency story? Must he really? Isn't that really just a bit too fucking much?

    Okay, maybe if he tells the obvious truth that this is a false flag, they'll kill him. I dunno. But at least he dies a man. But cripes, of course, it's a staged thing. The live shooter drill going on there on the same day? By coincidence? For the umpteenth time!!!?? You think that Giraldi doesn't know as well as we do that this is a false flag?

    I'm sick of all this bullshit and I honestly think you should be and not making these half-hearted attempts to defend this, like, oh, the Jihadist matrimonial agency story is not really as absurd as all that.... Well, yes it is, Robin. It is fucking absurd, okay? You know it's absurd. That's why it would make such a great Monty Python skit. Because it's absurd! (I don't care to debate exactly how absurd...)

    I'm sick of these gatekeepers and their limited hangout BS. I'm sick of this guy, sick of Chomsky, sick of that Tom Engelhardt who is still peddling this Osama Bin Laden bullshit. They can all kiss my ass. Have I made my position clear enough?
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  42. Sam Shama says:

    Hello Dr Giraldi,

    Popping in after a shortish absence.

    Why might this latest incident in San Bernadino, not be precisely what most people are considering it to be?

    That is, a muslim man, with very unremarkable middle income accoutrements, got radicalised [possibly by the Saudi wife] and visited this massacre on his office colleagues? [one of whom, a messianic Jew, he had several verbal clashes with]

    There is no dearth of cause for said radicalisation, as well noted by Fran and geokat. After all, it appears that ISIS holds a heady attraction for certain demographics, not necessarily restricted to muslims:

    http://www.northjersey.com/news/alleged-isis-hopeful-has-unlikely-past-1.1359779

    [I do understand that such thoughts are a bit discordant for some here, who would approach all of these incidents with a priori assumptions. Well, Que sera sera, I suppose!]

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    • Replies: @geokat62
    Welcome back, Sam. I was hoping to get your reaction to a comment I made in another thread:


    http://www.unz.com/article/the-dancing-israelis/#comment-1250124
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  43. bondo says:
    @bondo
    when govt wants to go to more more against arabs, muslims for jewry/israel (and to remove the 2nd amend), always assume the u.s. govt or israel the actor behind the scenes.

    media will report whatever is required. media will agitate with declarations about the u.s. not being aggressive enough or being isolationist or slow or weak. think christiane amanpour berating the u.s. for not having already bombed serbia(?). think current mouthers declaring we should already be doing something violent after every incident.

    always think false flag and you will be accurate 99% of the time.

    2nd “more” should be “war”

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  44. bondo says:
    @bomag
    It was an initial eye witness, who by calling them "white" probably meant that they weren't "black".

    3 athletic white guys
    they were called white because they were white as in white

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    • Replies: @Kevin O'Keeffe
    "they were called white because they were white as in white"

    Surely, you must realize that not every person in the USA, automatically identifies fundamentally Caucasoid people from the Middle East as being other-than-White, based on little more than a passing glance? Or should that obvious fact be ignored, simply because it doesn't fit into your preconceived notion of what has occurred here?

    At least be honest enough with yourself to admit you do not know what has occurred. Neither do I, FFS. Virtually no one truly does.
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  45. bondo says:
    @bomag
    Some unknown but troubling number of them might do in revenge what even some few of us non-Muslims would do if the same were done to our families.

    Please tell them to target the administration and congressional leaders that foster the stuff. Instead we get killings of people who largely don't support those policies.

    Back in the day a guy killed Archduke Ferdinand because of this stuff. Now we get people bombing daycares, and some are so deluded that they think this is a legitimate route for political change.

    that indicates it is the govt

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  46. panjoomby says:
    @alexander
    Dear Mr Giraldi,

    I would like to take this time to thank you (and Unz Review) for all your thoughtful, timely and well wrought articles. They really matter a great deal so please keep them coming.


    This most recent one calls to mind a statement made by Amos Gilad (Minister of Israeli Defense) in 2011.

    " We don't do Gandhi very well"

    The statement was made in reference to Peaceful,Palestinian , "non-terroristic" resistance to Israeli land grabs and military occupation beyond the "green line".

    With that in mind , I recall a large Palestinian demonstration several months ago...where Israel had secretly inserted five "agents" within the Palestinian demonstrators, who, while posing as Palestinians, lead the charge of 'terroristic" behavior against the I.D.F. When several "real"Palestinians followed suit, they were quickly turned on and apprehended by the "agents", resulting in several brutal beatings and arrests.

    The question in this scenario is "who is generating the terror, and why ?"

    Perhaps" all" the "Terror industries", that sprouted like mushrooms after 9-11, and have cost the taxpayer trillions of dollars to fund, who are ever eager for more and perpetual funding, "don't do Gandhi very well" either.

    The symbiosis between the "terror industries" we employ and the 'terrorist act" they have been created to mollify exposes an economic interdependence that is quite disconcerting.

    the scaly truth is that the terror industry "needs" the terrorist act to survive.

    Through this prism, The "act" becomes essential to the existence of the industry endowed to stop it....."not" the other way around.

    I am 52 years (young) old , Mr Giraldi, that means I spent the first 37 years of my life in the pre 9-11 era.
    During those (nearly) four decades, we ,as a "nation", spent a" fraction "of what we do,fighting " terror" ,and the amount of "terrorist threats, terrorist events, and mass shootings" was a thousand times less then it is today.


    If it a question of who is the chicken and who is the egg.....I wonder what Ghandi would say?

    excellent points – welcome to the military-homeland-industrial-terror complex. i wonder what Eisenhower would say!

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  47. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Kiza
    Mr Giraldi is becoming a leading magnet for the Hasbara troops and other selected trash with his articles about touchy issues.

    I know he is trying to keep a healthy distance from his subject but the following is outright ridiculous:


    Those disgruntled young Muslims who do meet the FBI requirements for more intensive handling frequently find that they have a new friend who is someone just like themselves who is really unhappy about what the United States is doing in the Middle East and to Muslims worldwide. That friend is usually an FBI informant who is not supposed to encourage any criminal act, which would be entrapment.
     
    All this alphabet soup agencies whose income depends on the "terrorism solved" and they would not do entrapment!? Am I misunderstanding irony here? If not, then Mr Giraldi just created his own conspiracy theory - the Government Goons do not do entrapment.

    The rest of the article is quite realistic, especially his friend's theory, but it also implies something which nobody from the overgrown cancer of the security establishment will admit to: there is no sure protection, even in a police state. It is the old Ben Franklin's: Those who want to sacrifice liberty for security, will end up with neither liberty nor security.

    Yes, you were misunderstanding irony there.
    Great Franklin quote.
    Giraldi is one experienced, reasonable dude.

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  48. geokat62 says:
    @Sam Shama
    Hello Dr Giraldi,

    Popping in after a shortish absence.

    Why might this latest incident in San Bernadino, not be precisely what most people are considering it to be?

    That is, a muslim man, with very unremarkable middle income accoutrements, got radicalised [possibly by the Saudi wife] and visited this massacre on his office colleagues? [one of whom, a messianic Jew, he had several verbal clashes with]

    There is no dearth of cause for said radicalisation, as well noted by Fran and geokat. After all, it appears that ISIS holds a heady attraction for certain demographics, not necessarily restricted to muslims:
    http://www.northjersey.com/news/alleged-isis-hopeful-has-unlikely-past-1.1359779

    [I do understand that such thoughts are a bit discordant for some here, who would approach all of these incidents with a priori assumptions. Well, Que sera sera, I suppose!]

    Welcome back, Sam. I was hoping to get your reaction to a comment I made in another thread:

    http://www.unz.com/article/the-dancing-israelis/#comment-1250124

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    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    Hi geo

    Kaufman is a mensch, someone to emulate. People like him are few and far between.

    What can I say, it seems that the world around us is all too cynical, steeped in calculated, immoral malevolence and the cycle seems endless. I am sorry if I sound somewhat despondent, but that is what I perceive all around. Here at the UR e.g., there are many deeply committed moral and intelligent individuals, many deeply committed bigots [who call themselves racialists] and many deeply committed idiots who know very little. In other words a small microcosm of the world at large, and I am afraid I might fall in the last category. After I wrote the last comment in this article, I had rather quite a conversation with a friend I had not seen in years, someone I respect highly. He showed me material that left me shocked beyond anything I thought possible.

    I think we are mobilising for war and ground troops in Syria within the next year, and at this point the probabilities do not favour otherwise.

    Look I don't know if I will have the testicular resolve to write all in an open thread, but I think I owe an apology to Jonathan Revusky and Rurik.....

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  49. The human rights that adjure to all people aren’t granted by the Constitution, only acknowledged. The Declaration, before there was an America or any citizenship, appealed to the decency of the opinions of mankind, and the rights of all human beings, not merely those of its authors, to justify rebellion against their own government.

    Note that nothing in the Bill of Rights distinguishes between those who have a piece of paper bestowed by politicians and those who don’t, to reject their entitlement to human rights. Those are not merely the rights only enjoyed by some, due to the accidents of birth or bureaucratic favor.

    Nonetheless, there is nothing in those rights that grants mass migration from the enemy side during war into an opponent country.

    A huge part of our problem is schizophrenic – the failure to declare war while nevertheless waging it, while pretending that there is nothing more like war going on than shopping mall competitions. If we are not at war, by all means welcome normally those from those territories we are at peace with. But if we are at war with them, what other than suicidal purpose could be served by admitting enemy populations? And the facts are, whatever obscurantisms are uttered by mendacious leadership gone addled, the expenditures and assets deployed indicate an enormous ongoing war effort.

    Although the effort is obviously vast, it is also vastly stupid, except in the service of military-industrial windfall profit and a misbegotten national pride, and therefore stupidities in its waging abound. I suppose, let the sins of stupidity increase, that the grace of military industrial profits may be greater still.

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  50. Rehmat says:
    @jack ryan
    The killings, mass rapes and enslavement of Greeks during the Muslim Turk sack of Constantinople - it was really an FBI false flag operation.

    The Muslim Moor's 700 year occupation of Spain - another CIA/FBI/MOSSAD false flag operation.

    Islam is a religion of peace, the Muslims in places like the tribal border areas of Pakistan and Afghanistan - these Muslims are just like liberal White people in Vermont and Toronto Canada. Any minor cultural differences like the Muslims performing female genital mutilation and refusing to use soap, deodorant or toilet paper, well, that either isn't important or somehow it's the fault of White Conservative Christians who make the Muslims feel unwelcome and don't give them multicultural hugs (something to do with smell).

    There is also the issue of the Muslims bringing back 1st century BC practices of .....

    Stoning to death people for things like blasphemy, adultery and well, some Muslims aren't real big on gay rights - but hey, what are a few stoning deaths compared to the much worse homophobic actions of Conservative Christian bakers in Indiana who didn't want to bake a homosexual marriage equality cake!

    Also, with regard to these Muslim stonings, no one is allowed to throw any stones until John Cleese blows his whistle, not even if they do say...... Jehovah ....... (stones rain down AHHHHHHHHHHH).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDe9msExUK8

    Your Zionist whining remind me Netanyahu’s latest holocaust history – “Hitler didn’t want to kill Jews. It was Mufti of Palestine who convinced Hitler to kill Jews.”

    Muslim Moors invaded Spain to liberate Jews living as Serfs (slaves) under Christian rule. According to Jewish Orientalist, Bernard Lewis, within less than 100 year under Muslim-rule, Jews became the elites of the society and held several high positions at royal court. In 1492, when 850-year-old Muslim rule ended in Spain, Crusaders killed 175,000 Spanish Jews while sold tens of thousands of Jewish women to sex slavery.

    Muslims ruled Greece for nearly 350 years. They’re tolerant to stupidity. The result is, now Athens has no mosque, but seven synagogues.

    http://rehmat1.com/2015/09/25/greece-anti-jew-minister-fired/

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    • Replies: @random observer
    So basically the Moors were pursuing some sort of Operation Iberian Freedom back in the day? I don't think so.
    , @schmenz
    Friend Rehmat, with all due respect, your re-hashing of the Black Legend against Spain needs to be re-thought out. May I recommend two extraordinary books to you, both written by the same author, that will shed light on this matter: "Isabella of Spain" and "Philip II" by William Thomas Walsh.

    Walsh's research was nothing less than astounding and it puts to rest many of the unhistorical memes that have been spread about Spain for the past four centuries. These are remarkable historical works, and I can highly recommend them.

    One quick point: contrary to the assertion that Spain's Jews were living as serfs, they had achieved amazing success in government, finance and business. Isabella protected the Jews throughout her reign and only made the decision to expel them for reasons of treason, not hatred of them. In fact she put a death sentence on anyone who tried to harm them. Also, the statement that Crusaders killed 175.00 Spanish Jews is simply not supported by any evidence whatsoever.
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  51. @RobinG
    Not time to go thru your post again, but the 'problems' you hit were not so big. Besides lack of imagination, I was going to add impatience. Patience is what sleeper cells are all about. Of course, Phil may just be pulling our leg, who knows.

    Indeed, Monty Python would have a good time with this. These guys must also be fans:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnRKhf4IDu4
    When ISIS attack Muslims but not #Israel

    the ‘problems’ you hit were not so big.

    Well, okay, Robin. ‘Big’, after all, is a relative concept. Let’s say that I see Everest size problems with the “Jihadist matrimonial agency” story. You, on the other hand, only see… let’s say…. Kim Kardashian’s ass-sized problems with it…. big, but not soooo big…. okay, fine…

    So, let’s see… what specifically are we in disagreement about then? You are seemingly reproaching me for overstating how absurd the “Jihadist marriage bureau” story is. I characterize it as utterly ludicrous, while your position would be more like that the story is just rather farfetched.

    But be that as it may, neither of us believe the story! (And I kinda doubt Mr. Giraldi does either!) So we’re not in very much disagreement about much at all, are we?

    So what is puzzling here is what you are reproaching me for then. As best I can understand, you are bothered by the sarcastic tone I took with Mr. Giraldi. Unfortunately, the best defense you can make is that Giraldi’s “Jihadist matrimonial agency” story, while not believable, is still less absurd than I am claiming it is. And that’s a bit weak, isn’t it?

    It bothers you that I took off the kid gloves with poor Phil. I was not being sufficiently obsequious to him…. Well…. okay… but let me be just straightforward and honest with you. I’m sick and tired of these fucking gatekeepers, man. Okay, I understand the guy is CIA (ex-CIA if such a thing exists) and can’t tell the full truth about anything. But must he really insult our intelligence with the Jihadist matrimonial agency story? Must he really? Isn’t that really just a bit too fucking much?

    Okay, maybe if he tells the obvious truth that this is a false flag, they’ll kill him. I dunno. But at least he dies a man. But cripes, of course, it’s a staged thing. The live shooter drill going on there on the same day? By coincidence? For the umpteenth time!!!?? You think that Giraldi doesn’t know as well as we do that this is a false flag?

    I’m sick of all this bullshit and I honestly think you should be and not making these half-hearted attempts to defend this, like, oh, the Jihadist matrimonial agency story is not really as absurd as all that…. Well, yes it is, Robin. It is fucking absurd, okay? You know it’s absurd. That’s why it would make such a great Monty Python skit. Because it’s absurd! (I don’t care to debate exactly how absurd…)

    I’m sick of these gatekeepers and their limited hangout BS. I’m sick of this guy, sick of Chomsky, sick of that Tom Engelhardt who is still peddling this Osama Bin Laden bullshit. They can all kiss my ass. Have I made my position clear enough?

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    • Replies: @RobinG
    Abundantly (clear). I expect you'll shoot the messenger (so I'm ready for another bitch-slapping) but it looks like FBI is entertaining the "marriage bureau" theory.

    Asked whether the marriage of shooters was arranged by a terror group or terror operative, or was just a meeting of two radicals online, Comey said: "I don't know the answer to that yet... It would be a very, very important thing to know."
     
    Let's make an analogy. I don't remember if you're one of those guys here advocating pitchforks in the street, but let's say you are. So you meet someone online. Maybe at one of the personal websites of a commenter here at UR. You start doing private messages, and he finds out you're single. So he says, hey, I know a great girl, you guys think a lot alike, you'd make a great team. And you do. You meet at a Civil War reenactment in Manassas. She's a member of a Christian survivalist militia in Loudon County (just ask Phil...), but she wants more than survival: she wants transformation, and she'll sacrifice everything... yadda, yadda, yadda.
    (("But you yadda, yadda'd the best part!"....."I mentioned the Civil War reenactment."))

    Here's a link to the press conference.
    https://gma.yahoo.com/san-bernardino-shooters-radicalized-started-dating-fbi-says-153950922--abc-news-topstories.html#
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  52. Akira says: • Website

    According to the truther “alternative media” drivel factory, the Mason/Jew/UFO/CIA Conspiracy secretly controls the whole world. Yet somehow an entire conspiracy-theory-industrial-complex manufactures trutherism by the truckloads every day. UFO conspiracy theory is on every night, coast to coast, in every AM market in the country. Conspiracy Theory books are international best sellers, Alex Jones clones are all over the internet, and conspiracy nonsense is a regular feature of Hollywood movies and television shows.

    It never occurs to you Truther Believers to wonder why the UFOs would allow this to happen, because your worldview is actually a construct of the Saturday morning cartoons, AM talk radio shows, and bad Hollywood movies that are produced by the very media that is secretly controlled by the Loch Ness monsters and the Abominable Snowmen. Indeed, you false flag truthers are always busy searching mainstream Hollywood movies for secret clues which are supposedly left there by the Illuminati.

    So while you truthers are always accusing others of being in a “controlled opposition”, you are quite proud to be part of the Retarded Opposition that is so incredibly stupid it swallowed the Mayan calendar bullshit hook-line-and-sinker. The Truther Believer will never think to ask exactly where his favorite brands of “red pills” are coming from, or why they cause permanent brain damage. Like a properly trained American the truther is a happy customer who will buy nearly anything as long as it is properly marketed to his slovenly prejudices.

    One of the hallmarks of the Conspiracy Theory subcultures is that they seem to exist in a strange sort of timeless void. The New-World Order/X-Files style conspiracy theories have been mainstream since the 1990s, but no accounting is ever made of their observable effects on American fringe politics.

    Art Bell synthesized a New Age Right subculture out of the pathetic babble of American Conspiracy Theory and UFO mythology. This audience has more in common with the New Age Left than anything else on the political spectrum. Alex Jones has inherited the flock and taken it in a more angrily politicized direction, but the basic themes have persisted. While the occasional mass murdering psycho takes it all too seriously, for most it is merely another toxic post-modern entertainment product.

    The end result is a shallow identity politics of political bullshit so brain dead that its adherents actually believed in both Y2K and 2012. Like the worst kind of hippies, they will believe in anything for at least five minutes. Some professional crank starts babbling about Mayan calendars (after too much DMT) and they lap it right up. This New Age Right has been successful in spreading and merchandising complete bullshit, usually of the most banal and tedious kind. The amount of UFO bullshit on the internet is now so vast as to be beyond cataloging, but the system is obviously completely unaffected by it.

    Within the American left we had an allegedly radical politics that oriented itself around Conspiracy Theory in the post 9/11 antiwar movement. Any analysis or discussion of Conspiracy Theory should therefore begin with the catastrophic failure and self-inflicted collapse of that movement, and the role that the 9/11 truther disease played in this process. Of course this doesn’t happen. Indeed it would seem that (like the “radical” left) the Conspiracy Theorists are utterly incapable of even observing the failure itself, much less learning anything from it.

    William Lind introduced the Frankfurt-Jew conspiracy theory into the paleo-right decades ago. Since then the paleo-right has lost almost every major battle. The religious right coalition that was once a real political power house now lies in smoking ruins and the Gay Married wedding cakes are coming to take the last white Christians away to the Catlyn Thought gender reeducation camps.

    One of the reasons that reactionaries have lost so many political and cultural battles is their long tradition of preferring delusional Conspiracy Theories to a real analysis of the enemies that have actually defeated them. In the aftermath of the French revolution they concocted bizarre Conspiracy Theories that blamed (among others) the long extinct Templars. Now in the wake of multiple catastrophic defeats at the hands of the New Left, they have dug up the corpse of the Communism and (of course) thrown in the JEWS for good measure.

    Meanwhile the people who were actually the Communists are busy fighting for Russian Nationalism and Eastern Orthodox Christianity against the very globalist elites that are supposedly part of the “Communist” plot to extend western neo-liberal capitalism to every corner of the globe. Having put out their own eyes with delusions, the reactionaries cannot even see the battlefield clearly, or tell friends from foes.

    And you want a Red Pill?

    Try asking yourself how such an intelligent primate was so systematically broken that it lost the ability to learn from negative experience. Ask yourself why the supposed resistance is constantly walking straight back into the same ambush over and over again, like a broken windup toy. Even a monkey knows when it has been beaten. Even single cell organisms are capable of learning from pain.

    American radicals (of both the left & right) usually react to failure and defeat by sealing off that experience and doubling down on the very strategy that led to the defeat. Is that just an accident? It sure is convenient for the system. A radical movement that didn’t have its head so deep up its own ass could have turned the economic crisis of 2008 to some account. Instead we had leftards playing homeless in the park while the right was busy with birther conspiracy bullshit.

    Conspiracy Theory subcultures create safe spaces for idiocy and failure. These subcultures offer a recreational activity that has been entirely sealed off from external reality. They exist solely to satisfy the (usually deeply pathological) emotional needs of their membership. These subcultures are now almost entirely virtual and evidently breed socially retarded basement fatties that threaten nothing at all. As the hideous man titty monsters of the New Right are incapable of mating and producing viable offspring, this is a form of self-inflicted WHITE GENOCIDE.

    Liberalism is dying, yes. Your elites are completely corrupt (and always have been), yes. And yes, they are constantly engaged in conspiracies against you, everyone else & each other. But they rule through institutions, not a conspiracy. While truther retards are busy looking for secret clues to the Illuminati FALSE FLAG in bad Hollywood movies, these institutions rule and order your whole world.

    All these broken white school shooting monsters are the industrial waste products of one of the largest and most radical social experiments in human history. Two of the central institutions of this civilization: the school system and the psychiatric industry are clearly and directly culpable in the creation of these monsters. The white middle class is now on so many heavy psychiatric drugs that they show up in the water supply and the fish.

    This is a whole civilization, not a “Conspiracy”.

    You are the children of this abomination, and until you take full stock of what it has done to you to break you for the cage, until you learn to hate the lie enough to rip it out by the roots, you will remain a slave to the sickness that bred you. These mutilations it has already inflicted upon you are only the dim beginnings of the nightmares that await…

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  53. @Anonymous
    http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2015/12/07/another-false-flag-attack/

    Another false flag attack that dumbshit Americans will fall for hook, line, and sinker
     

    The link appears just to show that PCR is favouring some other blogger’s false flag conspiracy theory. At a glance there do appear to be points made which cast doubt on the MSM received version but I have no idea whether PCR’s favoured blogger is reliable. Reporting of police saying that the Muslim couple had initiated a gun fight from within their vehicle and independent evidence that there were no open windows in their car would be a start. Anyone wish to do the hard work of verification?

    Generally the killing of suspects in the US seems often to be unnecessary. It is hard to think of a reason why killing the couple would have been better than capturing them alive. It’s not a problem unique to the US that police kill unnecessarily. In Australia there have been plenty of cases where mentally ill or unstable perpetrators/victims have been shot fatally when they were only shouting, looking menacing and brandishing a knife. So it is not necessarily more significant than a police failure if someone is killed whom one would, rationally, have wanted to question.

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    • Replies: @RobinG
    Out with it, Wizzie: the 'blogger' is Kevin Barrett. I'm sure lots of folks here know him well.

    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/12/07/3whitemen/
    BUSTED! San Bernadino shooters were three white men dressed in military attire

    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/12/06/holes/
    San Bernadino shooting story shot full of holes by patsies’ attorney

    But as for "not necessarily more significant than a police failure" - well, maybe "not necessarily", but we all know who the master trainers of our police are now, and why the NYPD maintains a permanent office in Israel. Dead men and women tell no tales.
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  54. KA says:

    Dont know what to make of this – Was it a false flag ?

    “Witness to San Bernardino Massacre Describes Shooters As Three White Men “Dressed In Military Attire”

    By Martin Hill

    Witness Sally Abdelmageed, who works at the Inland Regional Center and witnessed the shooting in San Bernardino, was interviewed live via telephone by CBS Evening News the day the massacre happened.

    The news anchor begins “She saw the attackers enter the building, and we spoke to her by phone.”

    “We saw three men dressed in military attire,” she says. “I couldn’t see his face, he had a black hat on… black cargo pants on, the kind with zippers on the side… He had a huge assault rifle a lot of ammo…”

    She continues, “They opened up the door to building then he starts to, you know, shoot all over into the room – that’s the room we have conferences in…”

    “I called 911 and I just hid under my desk..”

    “As I was talking to the dispatch, we went into my manager’s office and locked the doors..

    “Mrs. Abdelmageed, can you describe to me in as much details as you can what did the gunman look like?” the CBS anchor asks.

    “I couldn’t see his face, he had a black hat on. All I could see was a black hat, black long-sleeved shirt… He had extra ammo. He was probably ready for something, to reload – I don’t know know…”

    “I just saw three, dressed exactly the same.” They looked like they were athletic build, and um, they appeared to be tall…”

    “You’re certain that you saw three men?” the news anchor asks.

    “Yeah,” she replies, as she continues to describe the THREE WHITE MEN, their muscular build, etc.

    ————-

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-12-06/san-bernardino-attack-eye-witness-three-tall-white-men-did-it

    https://www.intellihub.com/eyewitness-terror-attack-three-tall-white-men/

    http://libertyfight.com/2015/witness_to_san_bernardino_massacre_describes_three_WHITE_MEN_shooters.html

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  55. Sam Shama says:
    @geokat62
    Welcome back, Sam. I was hoping to get your reaction to a comment I made in another thread:


    http://www.unz.com/article/the-dancing-israelis/#comment-1250124

    Hi geo

    Kaufman is a mensch, someone to emulate. People like him are few and far between.

    What can I say, it seems that the world around us is all too cynical, steeped in calculated, immoral malevolence and the cycle seems endless. I am sorry if I sound somewhat despondent, but that is what I perceive all around. Here at the UR e.g., there are many deeply committed moral and intelligent individuals, many deeply committed bigots [who call themselves racialists] and many deeply committed idiots who know very little. In other words a small microcosm of the world at large, and I am afraid I might fall in the last category. After I wrote the last comment in this article, I had rather quite a conversation with a friend I had not seen in years, someone I respect highly. He showed me material that left me shocked beyond anything I thought possible.

    I think we are mobilising for war and ground troops in Syria within the next year, and at this point the probabilities do not favour otherwise.

    Look I don’t know if I will have the testicular resolve to write all in an open thread, but I think I owe an apology to Jonathan Revusky and Rurik…..

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    • Replies: @Fran Macadam
    "He showed me material that left me shocked beyond anything I thought possible."

    I'm leaning towards the UFO theories of agency, as only the truly spaced could have come up with policies and politicians such as we are afflicted with.

    Mind you, there might be more to this than imagined; some posit UFOs are merely manifestations of the demonic.

    They, like Mephistopheles, as well as those of our own ilk, claim to be princes of power of the air.
    , @Ronald Thomas West
    Hi Sam. You say...

    I think we are mobilising for war and ground troops in Syria within the next year, and at this point the probabilities do not favour otherwise
     
    I wonder if you'd seen this:

    The US is to send some 10,000 troops to Iraq to provide support for a 90,000-strong force from the Gulf states, a leading Iraqi opposition MP has warned. The politician said the plan was announced to the Iraqi government during a visit by US Senator John McCain.

    During a meeting in Baghdad on November 27, McCain told Prime Minister Haider Abadi and a number of senior Iraqi cabinet and military officials that the decision was ‘non-negotiable’, claimed Hanan Fatlawi, the head of the opposition Irada Movement.

    https://www.rt.com/news/325477-arab-army-iraq-plan/
     

    Of course if the pretext is taking on ISIS, any presumed deployment isn't going to be limited to Iraq. Or perhaps the plan is Turkey's military will take Syria? In any case, Putin has been making some interesting statements along the lines of "any threat" to Russian forces must be destroyed (in the Syria context) and meanwhile has noted the cruise missiles recently employed in Syria are nuclear warhead capable (recalling Russian military doctrine defaults to tactical nuclear weapons in a case of faced with overwhelming battlefield odds, either technical or numerical.)

    It doesn't hurt to note where John McCain visits to make threats, it's not necessarily just a blow-hard's nonsense when recalling Kiev's Maidan; as well others media seems to back the RT article's & Iraqi MP's claims:


    Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) said Sunday that "there's a 9/11 coming" after the Paris terror attacks and called for 10,000 American troops on the ground in Iraq and Syria to help fight the Islamic State

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/lindsey-graham-911-isis-paris-attacks_5648a37ee4b08cda3489353b
     

    Of course it's no secret Obama has been in bed with the neo-cons on some issues all along. You could well be right. There's more, lots more, out the in the world of open source; pointing in the direction you indicate, but fate has a mind of its own time to time... we'll see how it plays out.

    On another note, seems you've been all over the map on character recently; the 'enemy of my enemy is my friend' can be quicksand ... relating to the seeming rehabilitation of certain anti-Semitic & neo-Nazi types. Just because they may be correct on the side of technical or strategic interpretations doesn't necessarily make for clean or trustworthy associations ; )

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  56. RobinG says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    The link appears just to show that PCR is favouring some other blogger's false flag conspiracy theory. At a glance there do appear to be points made which cast doubt on the MSM received version but I have no idea whether PCR's favoured blogger is reliable. Reporting of police saying that the Muslim couple had initiated a gun fight from within their vehicle and independent evidence that there were no open windows in their car would be a start. Anyone wish to do the hard work of verification?

    Generally the killing of suspects in the US seems often to be unnecessary. It is hard to think of a reason why killing the couple would have been better than capturing them alive. It's not a problem unique to the US that police kill unnecessarily. In Australia there have been plenty of cases where mentally ill or unstable perpetrators/victims have been shot fatally when they were only shouting, looking menacing and brandishing a knife. So it is not necessarily more significant than a police failure if someone is killed whom one would, rationally, have wanted to question.

    Out with it, Wizzie: the ‘blogger’ is Kevin Barrett. I’m sure lots of folks here know him well.

    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/12/07/3whitemen/

    BUSTED! San Bernadino shooters were three white men dressed in military attire

    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/12/06/holes/

    San Bernadino shooting story shot full of holes by patsies’ attorney

    But as for “not necessarily more significant than a police failure” – well, maybe “not necessarily”, but we all know who the master trainers of our police are now, and why the NYPD maintains a permanent office in Israel. Dead men and women tell no tales.

    Read More
    • Replies: @alexander
    I checked the link...

    interesting.

    There was a pic of one of the perps (female ?) lying face down in full body armor adjacent to a pool of blood (but not over it).......She had handcuffs on.

    Did you see that one ?

    Is that standard operating procedure... to handcuff the dead ?

    It might be...... I don't know.

    Perhaps in the event that they might not be dead...it is not an unwise idea.

    The other option....that she was handcuffed first... then shot "execution" style.... seems a bit too crass.



    The other point you mention...that "the NYPD has an office in Israel."...is really quite" bizarre", especially if you substitute" Israel" with any other country...like

    the NYPD has an office in ........Slovakia ?
    or
    The NYPD has an office in ...Namibia ?
    or
    the NYPD has an office in ...Austria ?

    Do New Yorkers take a " vote" on where their police departments "foreign office " should be located ?..

    or whether their police department should have a "foreign office" in the first place?

    Does anyone know how that works?
    , @Ivan
    Veterans Today as the Irish Savant had pointed out, runs the most outlandish stories in order to discredit those who question the official narratives. It seems to be in the game of controlled opposition
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  57. @Sam Shama
    Hi geo

    Kaufman is a mensch, someone to emulate. People like him are few and far between.

    What can I say, it seems that the world around us is all too cynical, steeped in calculated, immoral malevolence and the cycle seems endless. I am sorry if I sound somewhat despondent, but that is what I perceive all around. Here at the UR e.g., there are many deeply committed moral and intelligent individuals, many deeply committed bigots [who call themselves racialists] and many deeply committed idiots who know very little. In other words a small microcosm of the world at large, and I am afraid I might fall in the last category. After I wrote the last comment in this article, I had rather quite a conversation with a friend I had not seen in years, someone I respect highly. He showed me material that left me shocked beyond anything I thought possible.

    I think we are mobilising for war and ground troops in Syria within the next year, and at this point the probabilities do not favour otherwise.

    Look I don't know if I will have the testicular resolve to write all in an open thread, but I think I owe an apology to Jonathan Revusky and Rurik.....

    “He showed me material that left me shocked beyond anything I thought possible.”

    I’m leaning towards the UFO theories of agency, as only the truly spaced could have come up with policies and politicians such as we are afflicted with.

    Mind you, there might be more to this than imagined; some posit UFOs are merely manifestations of the demonic.

    They, like Mephistopheles, as well as those of our own ilk, claim to be princes of power of the air.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    Well had it been about UFOs, I'd find myself in a happy state [we are not alone in the vast Universe], instead of my current condition which I can only describe as agitated.

    San Bernardino was a false flag operation.

    I need to study 9/11 carefully, but am reluctant, lest I lose sanity I have managed to preserve thus far as I approach the fourth decade of existence.

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  58. Sam Shama says:
    @Fran Macadam
    "He showed me material that left me shocked beyond anything I thought possible."

    I'm leaning towards the UFO theories of agency, as only the truly spaced could have come up with policies and politicians such as we are afflicted with.

    Mind you, there might be more to this than imagined; some posit UFOs are merely manifestations of the demonic.

    They, like Mephistopheles, as well as those of our own ilk, claim to be princes of power of the air.

    Well had it been about UFOs, I’d find myself in a happy state [we are not alone in the vast Universe], instead of my current condition which I can only describe as agitated.

    San Bernardino was a false flag operation.

    I need to study 9/11 carefully, but am reluctant, lest I lose sanity I have managed to preserve thus far as I approach the fourth decade of existence.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik
    Hello Sam,

    I need to study 9/11 carefully, but am reluctant, lest I lose sanity
     
    intriguing

    .
    .

    I owe an apology to Jonathan Revusky and Rurik
     
    accepted : )
    , @Wizard of Oz
    You sound very agitated Sam and, unless I misunderstand you, a friend has shown you material within the last few hours which has converted you, from a standing start, to a belief that, instead of San Bernardino raising interesting questions about radicalisation it was an operation by some agents of US government (or if foreign, presumably Mossad, but no that doesn't fit the anti-Assad and anti-Iran priority of Israel). If what you now believe is true surely you have a duty to ensure concerned Westerners know the truth or can help you sort through the traumatic revelations to sift truth from dross. Let's have it please.

    BTW it seems to me entirely implausible that the San Bernardino affair would be a false flag operation designed to facilitate gun control. I am sure an American can spell out why that is only a one in a thousand possibility. By contrast it is not so implausible that a liitle Dr Strangelove in some agency might have set up the susceptible couple for an outrage which would assist some cause. There are problems. You need the couple to die. How are you going to make sure of it? And what cause benefits? Perhaps the speculative answer might be that Israel is playing a long game in which what happens to ISIS is secondary to getting the US into Syria with troops. Is that your friend's supposition or info?
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  59. KA says:

    A google search with name of the woman and dead body reveals a gallery of pictures . Two of them show a woman lying on the street ground face down on her abdomen with hands tied on her back.

    Do the police routinely handcuff a dead body? I don’t know. May be they do.
    May be the picture doesn’t shed light one way or another .

    Read More
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  60. Kiza says:
    @dc.sunsets
    The notion that "the news" carries "the truth" is so quaint, so naive...

    "We" never know what's really going on. "We" are frankly used to being fed an endless diet of mythology (in the library's section labeled History) that nothing we're fed needs even so much as vaguely resemble truth.

    None of it matters. All my OODA loop requires is to Observe common sense. Everything I'm told is a lie, once outside the confines of my own personal experience and/or outside the circle of trust of family. It can be, if not must be, ignored.

    Live life without the artificial anxiety of saturation-level lies.

    You certainly consumed your red pill and well, congratulations on your most healthy skepticism.

    Only add ” and friends” to

    … the confines of my own personal experience and/or outside the circle of trust of family

    Therefore, trust self, family and friends and no-one else.

    As I was getting older, one of the main discoveries was that in an objective world there is no such concept as “authority” (political, state, academic, scientific, medical and so on). This is most extreme in the “news”, but also in “history”. Whoever delivers “news” or “history” from a high perch of “authority” is almost certainly just an organized, systemic liar. One famous quip of this kind is: “do not believe anything until it has been officially denied”. One cannot lie successfully without having authority, therefore the authority is established to lie successfully – one example, the MSM themselves.

    Once we break out of the confines of “authority”, we achieve the true freedom of thought.

    Read More
    • Replies: @joe webb
    Once we break out of the confines of “authority”, we achieve the true freedom of thought.

    I could just state that this is the sign of an idiot. But , let more measured thought obtain.

    Since having a decent opinion for the opinion of mankind is one of the marks of a gentleman, not a terrorist or autodidact, it is reasonable to assume that the various schools of thought on any subject ought to be considered before one Freely Thinks. This is what Man Thinks God laughs is about.

    The quip, don't trust anybody under 40, is something that I find useful.

    Any account of anything should cover the bases of what is generally thought about subject X.

    Subject X should then be examined from the standpoint of the various schools of thought. A process of "critical" thinking ( non-marxist type )through of the possibilities is then in order.

    If one is not just a young fool, one should do some basic research. etc. Any rejection of Authority on the basis of branding something a lie, for example, is the mark of a genuine sophomore, about age 19 on average.
    Joe Webb
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  61. Lloyd1927 says:

    Few Americans know the languages and cultures of the Muslim countries our government invades or otherwise meddles in. How therefore can they truly vet immigrants or visitors?

    Read More
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  62. joe webb says:
    @Kiza
    You certainly consumed your red pill and well, congratulations on your most healthy skepticism.

    Only add " and friends" to


    ... the confines of my own personal experience and/or outside the circle of trust of family
     
    Therefore, trust self, family and friends and no-one else.

    As I was getting older, one of the main discoveries was that in an objective world there is no such concept as "authority" (political, state, academic, scientific, medical and so on). This is most extreme in the "news", but also in "history". Whoever delivers "news" or "history" from a high perch of "authority" is almost certainly just an organized, systemic liar. One famous quip of this kind is: "do not believe anything until it has been officially denied". One cannot lie successfully without having authority, therefore the authority is established to lie successfully - one example, the MSM themselves.

    Once we break out of the confines of "authority", we achieve the true freedom of thought.

    Once we break out of the confines of “authority”, we achieve the true freedom of thought.

    I could just state that this is the sign of an idiot. But , let more measured thought obtain.

    Since having a decent opinion for the opinion of mankind is one of the marks of a gentleman, not a terrorist or autodidact, it is reasonable to assume that the various schools of thought on any subject ought to be considered before one Freely Thinks. This is what Man Thinks God laughs is about.

    The quip, don’t trust anybody under 40, is something that I find useful.

    Any account of anything should cover the bases of what is generally thought about subject X.

    Subject X should then be examined from the standpoint of the various schools of thought. A process of “critical” thinking ( non-marxist type )through of the possibilities is then in order.

    If one is not just a young fool, one should do some basic research. etc. Any rejection of Authority on the basis of branding something a lie, for example, is the mark of a genuine sophomore, about age 19 on average.
    Joe Webb

    Read More
    • Replies: @Kiza
    You are the character who always has his name twice on every write up, which suggests that you may have a disturbed personality. It would be easy if you just enjoyed your own name too much. If what you write was reasonable or valuable, then I would think that you wanted to put a stronger ownership claim on your valuable thoughts. But all you are typing are rants. I admit that I never read beyond the first couple of semi-comprehensible sentences.

    Some people come here to contribute thoughts, you come here for pshychological relief. See my first comment about "Hasbara troops and other selected trash". I do not think that you are a Hasbara online trooper.
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  63. Old fogey says:
    @Rurik
    PCR has more integrity in his toe jam than you could muster in a thousand lifetimes

    you're not even worthy of being mentioned with PCR's toe jam in the same sentence

    completely unsubstantiated conspiracy theory nonsense like 9/11/01 wasn’t done by Islamic extremists.
     
    yea, they even magically brought down three building by only hitting two!

    those dastardly Muslims with their magical tricks!

    If you recall, the final building to fall was World Trade Center building number 7 – and that building came down long after ALL the previous six buildings were destroyed. And this happened without any of the buildings surrounding the World Trade Center site collapsing. Strange goings-on indeed.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik
    Hello Old fogey,

    yep, and the media reported on building seven coming down before it did!

    and then they forgot about the entire anomaly during the 'investigation" and is wasn't mentioned in the 911 commission report. I guess they figured it was no big deal.
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  64. Kiza says:
    @joe webb
    Once we break out of the confines of “authority”, we achieve the true freedom of thought.

    I could just state that this is the sign of an idiot. But , let more measured thought obtain.

    Since having a decent opinion for the opinion of mankind is one of the marks of a gentleman, not a terrorist or autodidact, it is reasonable to assume that the various schools of thought on any subject ought to be considered before one Freely Thinks. This is what Man Thinks God laughs is about.

    The quip, don't trust anybody under 40, is something that I find useful.

    Any account of anything should cover the bases of what is generally thought about subject X.

    Subject X should then be examined from the standpoint of the various schools of thought. A process of "critical" thinking ( non-marxist type )through of the possibilities is then in order.

    If one is not just a young fool, one should do some basic research. etc. Any rejection of Authority on the basis of branding something a lie, for example, is the mark of a genuine sophomore, about age 19 on average.
    Joe Webb

    You are the character who always has his name twice on every write up, which suggests that you may have a disturbed personality. It would be easy if you just enjoyed your own name too much. If what you write was reasonable or valuable, then I would think that you wanted to put a stronger ownership claim on your valuable thoughts. But all you are typing are rants. I admit that I never read beyond the first couple of semi-comprehensible sentences.

    Some people come here to contribute thoughts, you come here for pshychological relief. See my first comment about “Hasbara troops and other selected trash”. I do not think that you are a Hasbara online trooper.

    Read More
    • Replies: @joe webb
    the twice named is just a typo, but your inability to read bespeaks probably your race, jew, in this case, rather than basic IQ. Cannot stand the Truth. Vast reaction formation moves in like a tidal wave and your brain goes ker-thunk, like Ice-9. Liberals will die in droves, mostly from suicide as the world bitterly disappoints them.

    You jews and lefties: the Sky is getting ready to fall on you. Can you comprehend that?

    Joe Webb Joe Webb
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  65. alexander says:
    @RobinG
    Out with it, Wizzie: the 'blogger' is Kevin Barrett. I'm sure lots of folks here know him well.

    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/12/07/3whitemen/
    BUSTED! San Bernadino shooters were three white men dressed in military attire

    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/12/06/holes/
    San Bernadino shooting story shot full of holes by patsies’ attorney

    But as for "not necessarily more significant than a police failure" - well, maybe "not necessarily", but we all know who the master trainers of our police are now, and why the NYPD maintains a permanent office in Israel. Dead men and women tell no tales.

    I checked the link…

    interesting.

    There was a pic of one of the perps (female ?) lying face down in full body armor adjacent to a pool of blood (but not over it)…….She had handcuffs on.

    Did you see that one ?

    Is that standard operating procedure… to handcuff the dead ?

    It might be…… I don’t know.

    Perhaps in the event that they might not be dead…it is not an unwise idea.

    The other option….that she was handcuffed first… then shot “execution” style…. seems a bit too crass.

    The other point you mention…that “the NYPD has an office in Israel.”…is really quite” bizarre”, especially if you substitute” Israel” with any other country…like

    the NYPD has an office in ……..Slovakia ?
    or
    The NYPD has an office in …Namibia ?
    or
    the NYPD has an office in …Austria ?

    Do New Yorkers take a ” vote” on where their police departments “foreign office ” should be located ?..

    or whether their police department should have a “foreign office” in the first place?

    Does anyone know how that works?

    Read More
    • Replies: @RobinG
    Only the latest report-

    "How could this be in the civilian government of Chicago? In part, because Police Superintendent McCarthy and the City of Chicago sought out and received training by Israeli occupation forces in “counter-terrorism” policing, that is, “pacifying” a population through aggressive intelligence gathering and the application of military force. Counter-insurgency is the term used for when this doctrine is applied by military forces."

    https://consortiumnews.com/2015/12/11/chicago-police-adopt-israeli-tactics/
    Chicago Police Adopt Israeli Tactics
    December 11, 2015
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  66. […] “Conspiracy Theories and San Bernardino”  High-IQ analysis.  Rare. [Ed.: I second the endorsement and applaud the find and the finder.] […]

    Read More
  67. Ivan says:
    @RobinG
    Out with it, Wizzie: the 'blogger' is Kevin Barrett. I'm sure lots of folks here know him well.

    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/12/07/3whitemen/
    BUSTED! San Bernadino shooters were three white men dressed in military attire

    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/12/06/holes/
    San Bernadino shooting story shot full of holes by patsies’ attorney

    But as for "not necessarily more significant than a police failure" - well, maybe "not necessarily", but we all know who the master trainers of our police are now, and why the NYPD maintains a permanent office in Israel. Dead men and women tell no tales.

    Veterans Today as the Irish Savant had pointed out, runs the most outlandish stories in order to discredit those who question the official narratives. It seems to be in the game of controlled opposition

    Read More
    • Replies: @Old fogey
    Absolutely correct. I like your term "controlled opposition." There's a clear pattern in VT posts: the bits of truth are surrounded by ridiculous typos (showing that the poster should not be taken seriously) and usually a few indications that give the impression that the poster is antisemitic just to make it impossible for you to send the post to someone else, or to trust your own judgment in giving any credence to the evidence given.
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  68. Rurik says:
    @Old fogey
    If you recall, the final building to fall was World Trade Center building number 7 - and that building came down long after ALL the previous six buildings were destroyed. And this happened without any of the buildings surrounding the World Trade Center site collapsing. Strange goings-on indeed.

    Hello Old fogey,

    yep, and the media reported on building seven coming down before it did!

    and then they forgot about the entire anomaly during the ‘investigation” and is wasn’t mentioned in the 911 commission report. I guess they figured it was no big deal.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Why do you pay no attention to anything anyone else says which doesn't fit in with your prejudices - even on easily ascertainable and undeniable facts. The last time someone went on with the crap about WTC7 and said it wasn't mentioned in the 9/11 commission report someone posted the long passage where it was not only mentioned but dealt with carefully. Why do you so boorishly waste people's time?

    Just because a BBC reporter may have misunderstood what she had been told this ridiculous nonsense about WTC 7 gets endlessly rechurned when
    (a) it adds nothing to the credibility of any of the 9/11 conspiracy theories that WTC 7 was also destroyed; and
    (b) there is a simple explanation for its collapse late in the day, namely that burning debris from one of the towers started a fire in WTC 7 early in the day and, after burning for hours without water available to quech it, it had weakened the structural steel enough for the collapse to occur.

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  69. Rurik says:
    @Sam Shama
    Well had it been about UFOs, I'd find myself in a happy state [we are not alone in the vast Universe], instead of my current condition which I can only describe as agitated.

    San Bernardino was a false flag operation.

    I need to study 9/11 carefully, but am reluctant, lest I lose sanity I have managed to preserve thus far as I approach the fourth decade of existence.

    Hello Sam,

    I need to study 9/11 carefully, but am reluctant, lest I lose sanity

    intriguing

    .
    .

    I owe an apology to Jonathan Revusky and Rurik

    accepted : )

    Read More
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  70. Stop the chase. USA is the biggest terrorist state. Good indicator are rogue FBI CIA police who could do no wrong and all Jewish controlled media that lie

    Read More
    • Replies: @KA
    Jewish angle came to dominate long after the decay had set in . American forays into the secular progressive political movement of Syria ,Iraq,or Lebanon started in 1940s .
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  71. @Rehmat
    Your Zionist whining remind me Netanyahu's latest holocaust history - "Hitler didn't want to kill Jews. It was Mufti of Palestine who convinced Hitler to kill Jews."

    Muslim Moors invaded Spain to liberate Jews living as Serfs (slaves) under Christian rule. According to Jewish Orientalist, Bernard Lewis, within less than 100 year under Muslim-rule, Jews became the elites of the society and held several high positions at royal court. In 1492, when 850-year-old Muslim rule ended in Spain, Crusaders killed 175,000 Spanish Jews while sold tens of thousands of Jewish women to sex slavery.

    Muslims ruled Greece for nearly 350 years. They're tolerant to stupidity. The result is, now Athens has no mosque, but seven synagogues.

    http://rehmat1.com/2015/09/25/greece-anti-jew-minister-fired/

    So basically the Moors were pursuing some sort of Operation Iberian Freedom back in the day? I don’t think so.

    Read More
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  72. Since I neither tracked it closely in real-time nor took the effort to research the chronology, I shouldn’t complain that Giraldi did not mention how the FBI changed its story from day to day.

    As I recall events, the earliest statements from FBI’s Comey were that there did not appear to be “terrorist” involvement or motivation in the SanBernardino killings.
    The story changed bit by bit.
    What Comey initially tried to present as a minor flesh wound has flared into full-body gangrene.

    Maybe the scriptwriter had not yet polished the narrative?
    Maybe Comey tried to go rogue, aka tell the truth, aka resist the empire?
    Maybe the PTB were slow in figuring out how to take advantage of a crisis (h/t Rahm Emanuel)?

    ot: Nancy Pelosi will lead a CODEL (code for taxpayer-financed junket) to Paris, doubtless to commiserate with the Parisians whose clothes were stained by stage blood.

    Read More
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  73. Old fogey says:
    @Ivan
    Veterans Today as the Irish Savant had pointed out, runs the most outlandish stories in order to discredit those who question the official narratives. It seems to be in the game of controlled opposition

    Absolutely correct. I like your term “controlled opposition.” There’s a clear pattern in VT posts: the bits of truth are surrounded by ridiculous typos (showing that the poster should not be taken seriously) and usually a few indications that give the impression that the poster is antisemitic just to make it impossible for you to send the post to someone else, or to trust your own judgment in giving any credence to the evidence given.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    So where does this subthread leave Paul Craig Roberts - or the Anonymous who cited his link to VT ? It leaves me with the intention to save time by not reading PCR or VT ' to which I add Zerohedge and anyone who thinks it a reliable source for anything. (Zerohedge actually warns readers to assume its writers are talking their book).
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  74. schmenz says:
    @Rehmat
    Your Zionist whining remind me Netanyahu's latest holocaust history - "Hitler didn't want to kill Jews. It was Mufti of Palestine who convinced Hitler to kill Jews."

    Muslim Moors invaded Spain to liberate Jews living as Serfs (slaves) under Christian rule. According to Jewish Orientalist, Bernard Lewis, within less than 100 year under Muslim-rule, Jews became the elites of the society and held several high positions at royal court. In 1492, when 850-year-old Muslim rule ended in Spain, Crusaders killed 175,000 Spanish Jews while sold tens of thousands of Jewish women to sex slavery.

    Muslims ruled Greece for nearly 350 years. They're tolerant to stupidity. The result is, now Athens has no mosque, but seven synagogues.

    http://rehmat1.com/2015/09/25/greece-anti-jew-minister-fired/

    Friend Rehmat, with all due respect, your re-hashing of the Black Legend against Spain needs to be re-thought out. May I recommend two extraordinary books to you, both written by the same author, that will shed light on this matter: “Isabella of Spain” and “Philip II” by William Thomas Walsh.

    Walsh’s research was nothing less than astounding and it puts to rest many of the unhistorical memes that have been spread about Spain for the past four centuries. These are remarkable historical works, and I can highly recommend them.

    One quick point: contrary to the assertion that Spain’s Jews were living as serfs, they had achieved amazing success in government, finance and business. Isabella protected the Jews throughout her reign and only made the decision to expel them for reasons of treason, not hatred of them. In fact she put a death sentence on anyone who tried to harm them. Also, the statement that Crusaders killed 175.00 Spanish Jews is simply not supported by any evidence whatsoever.

    Read More
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  75. RobinG says:
    @Jonathan Revusky

    the ‘problems’ you hit were not so big.
     
    Well, okay, Robin. 'Big', after all, is a relative concept. Let's say that I see Everest size problems with the "Jihadist matrimonial agency" story. You, on the other hand, only see... let's say.... Kim Kardashian's ass-sized problems with it.... big, but not soooo big.... okay, fine...

    So, let's see... what specifically are we in disagreement about then? You are seemingly reproaching me for overstating how absurd the "Jihadist marriage bureau" story is. I characterize it as utterly ludicrous, while your position would be more like that the story is just rather farfetched.

    But be that as it may, neither of us believe the story! (And I kinda doubt Mr. Giraldi does either!) So we're not in very much disagreement about much at all, are we?

    So what is puzzling here is what you are reproaching me for then. As best I can understand, you are bothered by the sarcastic tone I took with Mr. Giraldi. Unfortunately, the best defense you can make is that Giraldi's "Jihadist matrimonial agency" story, while not believable, is still less absurd than I am claiming it is. And that's a bit weak, isn't it?

    It bothers you that I took off the kid gloves with poor Phil. I was not being sufficiently obsequious to him.... Well.... okay... but let me be just straightforward and honest with you. I'm sick and tired of these fucking gatekeepers, man. Okay, I understand the guy is CIA (ex-CIA if such a thing exists) and can't tell the full truth about anything. But must he really insult our intelligence with the Jihadist matrimonial agency story? Must he really? Isn't that really just a bit too fucking much?

    Okay, maybe if he tells the obvious truth that this is a false flag, they'll kill him. I dunno. But at least he dies a man. But cripes, of course, it's a staged thing. The live shooter drill going on there on the same day? By coincidence? For the umpteenth time!!!?? You think that Giraldi doesn't know as well as we do that this is a false flag?

    I'm sick of all this bullshit and I honestly think you should be and not making these half-hearted attempts to defend this, like, oh, the Jihadist matrimonial agency story is not really as absurd as all that.... Well, yes it is, Robin. It is fucking absurd, okay? You know it's absurd. That's why it would make such a great Monty Python skit. Because it's absurd! (I don't care to debate exactly how absurd...)

    I'm sick of these gatekeepers and their limited hangout BS. I'm sick of this guy, sick of Chomsky, sick of that Tom Engelhardt who is still peddling this Osama Bin Laden bullshit. They can all kiss my ass. Have I made my position clear enough?

    Abundantly (clear). I expect you’ll shoot the messenger (so I’m ready for another bitch-slapping) but it looks like FBI is entertaining the “marriage bureau” theory.

    Asked whether the marriage of shooters was arranged by a terror group or terror operative, or was just a meeting of two radicals online, Comey said: “I don’t know the answer to that yet… It would be a very, very important thing to know.”

    Let’s make an analogy. I don’t remember if you’re one of those guys here advocating pitchforks in the street, but let’s say you are. So you meet someone online. Maybe at one of the personal websites of a commenter here at UR. You start doing private messages, and he finds out you’re single. So he says, hey, I know a great girl, you guys think a lot alike, you’d make a great team. And you do. You meet at a Civil War reenactment in Manassas. She’s a member of a Christian survivalist militia in Loudon County (just ask Phil…), but she wants more than survival: she wants transformation, and she’ll sacrifice everything… yadda, yadda, yadda.
    ((“But you yadda, yadda’d the best part!”…..”I mentioned the Civil War reenactment.”))

    Here’s a link to the press conference.

    https://gma.yahoo.com/san-bernardino-shooters-radicalized-started-dating-fbi-says-153950922–abc-news-topstories.html#

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jonathan Revusky

    Abundantly (clear). I expect you’ll shoot the messenger (so I’m ready for another bitch-slapping)

     

    Hmm, I don't know what, for you, constitutes a "bitch-slapping". I reread my earlier responses to you and I don't really see how they can be characterized as that.

    If you are so eager to be abused, I may disappoint you. (Besides, why should I do it for free? At least I should get the going rate, no?)

    Anyway.... where were we again? Oh, yeah. The "jihadist marriage bureau" narrative.... let's see.... having slept on this, well, I could bend over backwards to be fair on this story and look at some of its merits. For example:

    The jihadist marriage bureau story does not violate any of the laws of physics.

    Unlike, say, the official explanation of what happened on 9/11. Of course, that a story does not obey the laws of physics is setting the bar pretty damned low. Like: "Well, at least this story doesn't require somebody to be in two places at the same time... It doesn't require sound to travel faster than light..." That kind of thing.

    The jihadist marriage bureau narrative possibly does not stand out in terms of absurdity. For example, we have all these "lone wolf" narratives. Like, young Adam Lanza gets up one morning, and, for no obvious reason (besides that he's one fucked up kid) decides to get a high powered firearm, go shoot his Momma, and then go to the nearest elementary school and shoot a bunch of cute little kids. (On the same day that, surely unbeknownst to him, they're running a live shooter drill.)

    Of course, the original lone wolf narrative is Lee Harvey Oswald shooting Kennedy. You see, he "self-radicalized" on the internet. Oh, sorry, there was no internet then so he self-radicalized reading turgid Marxist literature. Nowadays, he would have self-radicalized on the internet. He would have been sitting in his Momma's basement, surfing these radical websites and something would go snap, he's radicalized (!!) and then goes off and shoots some people.

    but it looks like FBI is entertaining the “marriage bureau” theory.
     
    You know, it's very very hard to understand your point, Robin. So basically, the same people who will tell you with a straight face that somebody self-radicalized by looking at internet sites and then went and shot a bunch of people -- these same people are now entertaining the "marriage bureau" theory.

    Uhh, so bleeping what!!??

    Now, by the way, I looked into this and the story being floated now is not the one Mr. Giraldi proposes. Mr. Giraldi's narrative had the young lady, who was already a radical, meeting the prospective husband online and managing to "radicalize" him. But in the FBI's version, both individuals were already radicalized prior to their meeting online. "Pre-radicalized"??? (Kind of like pre-cooked instant noodles.) (How many such people are there out there? What are the chances of two pre-radicalized individuals meeting each other on a matrimonial site online?)

    So, okay, the two pre-radicalized individuals met online and corresponded and eventually married and the woman immigrated to the U.S. They have a normal married life (nudge, nudge, wink, wink, wink, say no more) and have a newborn baby. And then after that, decide to go carry out their martyrdom operation, selecting a very high value target, i.e. killing a bunch of disabled people who, frankly, probably nobody really gave a damn about.

    Okay, the story (in its current version) does have limited merit. For example, it does not require the sun to rise in the west. It does not require any steel framed skyscraper to collapse straight down as a result of being hit in a corner by a plane...

    But, anyway, to be clear, the current narrative is not the one Mr. Giraldi proposed. His "jihadist marriage bureau" narrative is that this is somehow the basis for some kind of ISIS terrorist campaign, that they could recruit Jihadist young ladies, put their profiles on the internet, find them a husband in the west, radicalize the husband, and then, at least two years after the initial recruiting of the woman, the two go off and commit their terrorist act. (In this case, after an initial year and a half of married life where they have a newborn baby.)

    But in the new FBI version, the young lady does not radicalize her newfound husband. The husband comes "pre-radicalized". (The wonders of America for the young jihadist housewife. she discovers pre-cooked instant foods, pre-radicalized husband.... a lot less work.... in the old country, you had to radicalize your husband from scratch....)

    (Robin, has it ever occurred to you that these people are putting out these stories on various web pages, trying to gauge which ones marginally pass the laugh test?)

    So, anyway, this maybe brings us back to the bitch-slapping issue. There is a certain kind of person who believes all these stories. Basically, it does not matter how absurd. In fact, the story demonstrably can violate the laws of physics and they will still believe it!

    I have recently begun wondering whether this kind of desperate need to be duped emerges from the same place in their diseased minds as the desperate need of the passive homosexual to be roughly sodomized. Of course, if this is the case, their condition is bound to be incurable. But, in the light of this, I wonder what is possibly the deeper meaning of your seeming request that I should administer a "bitch-slapping". I know it was meant in jest, but, as the Bard said, many a truth is spoke in jest...
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  76. @Kiza
    Mr Giraldi is becoming a leading magnet for the Hasbara troops and other selected trash with his articles about touchy issues.

    I know he is trying to keep a healthy distance from his subject but the following is outright ridiculous:


    Those disgruntled young Muslims who do meet the FBI requirements for more intensive handling frequently find that they have a new friend who is someone just like themselves who is really unhappy about what the United States is doing in the Middle East and to Muslims worldwide. That friend is usually an FBI informant who is not supposed to encourage any criminal act, which would be entrapment.
     
    All this alphabet soup agencies whose income depends on the "terrorism solved" and they would not do entrapment!? Am I misunderstanding irony here? If not, then Mr Giraldi just created his own conspiracy theory - the Government Goons do not do entrapment.

    The rest of the article is quite realistic, especially his friend's theory, but it also implies something which nobody from the overgrown cancer of the security establishment will admit to: there is no sure protection, even in a police state. It is the old Ben Franklin's: Those who want to sacrifice liberty for security, will end up with neither liberty nor security.

    You couldn’t carry Giraldi’s water! Even former Judge, Andrew Napolitano, has shown where the FBI has concocted at least 20 false “terrorism plots” in order to advance the phony ‘War on Terror.’ Can’t have a ‘War on Terror’ if no “terrists” show up, now can we!? Your smug, insulting comments regarding Giraldi asside, I highly doubt Phil could have amassed the sterling career he did by being “ridiculous” about anything. You obviously know nothing of the man and haven’t followed his contributions in the many periodicals he is linked to. His expertise has, more than once, blown the lid off the relentless government propaganda we are burdened with on a daily basis.

    What have you done, lately!?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ronald Thomas West
    Giraldi could have written the paragraph better. He pointed out the rank hypocrisy or double dealing with element of irony but if someone's first language is not English, or if one is simply not intimately familiar with the subject, it could easily be either confusing or misconstrued.

    My own opinion is Phil had run down a rabbit trail with this article but perhaps deliberately so; knowing full well there will be commenters will open the possibilities wide enough for any truly investigative readers drive a truck through.

    Is it enough an on-scene, live witness contradicts the subsequent media narrative to understand all is not well in Oz? It should be (speaking of the 'alternative obvious' or the fact someone who actually saw the crime going down and is speaking immediately and freshly immersed in the experience, relates facts altogether at odds with officialdom's narrative.)

    , @Kiza

    ...smug, insulting comments regarding Giraldi asside...
     
    Gee, there are some commentators with deep personality issues. I have been considering staying away from Giraldi articles not because he writes anything wrong, he is one of the best article writers in the public domain now, but just because of his chosen topics which tend to attract the Hasbara troopers and selected loonies, as I wrote before. I find no pleasure in responding to Hasbara and/or the nut cases and it is a pure waste of time.

    Ronald,
    in my mind at least, Giraldi wrote something important in a, possibly intentionally, ambiguous way and I reacted to it. It is not an issue of mother tongue or similar. Having been on the Government payroll himself in the past, maybe his turn of phrase was to be softer on the "Government Goons who entrap". Maybe he did not want to be openly accusational of the servants of the regime, but then he did sacrifice clarity. This is usually not the best writing practice. But Giraldi writes so much and so many good articles that it makes it hard to maintain all aspects of writing at a highest degree. Anybody who has been writing articles knows how hard it is to maintain highest standards when you write several per week for months. Therefore, I do not blame Giraldi for anything and I will keep reading his articles both here and at TAC, but I will definitely stay away from the loonie commentators such as this one and that other one joe webb. The previous Giraldi article here attracted even more of the crazies.

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  77. why would Jackie have started to climb out of the back of the car?

    wouldn’t the natural reaction have been to duck down as low as you could get?

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    • Replies: @christo
    "why would Jackie have started to climb out of the back of the car?"

    Jeezus! are you dense ? In sheer panic and horrified and You husband's brains just got splattered all on you , and you wonder why she didn't duck? Where? next to him who just got his head bloawn off? That's rich.

    Besides the shots were coming in from a high elevation , there was no cover in that convertible.

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  78. KA says:
    @george Archers
    Stop the chase. USA is the biggest terrorist state. Good indicator are rogue FBI CIA police who could do no wrong and all Jewish controlled media that lie

    Jewish angle came to dominate long after the decay had set in . American forays into the secular progressive political movement of Syria ,Iraq,or Lebanon started in 1940s .

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  79. Christo says:

    Nice shot of Jackie O. The rest of the article was somewhat lost after that.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Kevin O'Keeffe
    "Nice shot of Jackie O."

    Yeah, I don't think I'd ever seen that picture before; presumably it was somewhat suppressed, for the sake of the then-First Lady. Outside its tragic context, the darn thing is borderline erotic.
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  80. christo says:
    @SolontoCroesus
    why would Jackie have started to climb out of the back of the car?

    wouldn't the natural reaction have been to duck down as low as you could get?

    “why would Jackie have started to climb out of the back of the car?”

    Jeezus! are you dense ? In sheer panic and horrified and You husband’s brains just got splattered all on you , and you wonder why she didn’t duck? Where? next to him who just got his head bloawn off? That’s rich.

    Besides the shots were coming in from a high elevation , there was no cover in that convertible.

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    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus

    Jeezus! are you dense ?
     
    I don't know nuthin about the physics of shooting, etc.

    but even so --

    it seems to me climbing out of the walls of the machine offered up more target space than if she had done a duck-and-cover, scrunching up her body as small as possible.

    did the Secret Service who is running toward her call to her? Did she call to him?

    ---

    on the topic at hand, specifically the marriage services: Pat Lang posted this:

    http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2015/12/httpwwwfoxnewscomus20151209investigators-believe-syed-farook-planned-attack-prior-to-san-bernardino.html
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  81. joe webb says:
    @Kiza
    You are the character who always has his name twice on every write up, which suggests that you may have a disturbed personality. It would be easy if you just enjoyed your own name too much. If what you write was reasonable or valuable, then I would think that you wanted to put a stronger ownership claim on your valuable thoughts. But all you are typing are rants. I admit that I never read beyond the first couple of semi-comprehensible sentences.

    Some people come here to contribute thoughts, you come here for pshychological relief. See my first comment about "Hasbara troops and other selected trash". I do not think that you are a Hasbara online trooper.

    the twice named is just a typo, but your inability to read bespeaks probably your race, jew, in this case, rather than basic IQ. Cannot stand the Truth. Vast reaction formation moves in like a tidal wave and your brain goes ker-thunk, like Ice-9. Liberals will die in droves, mostly from suicide as the world bitterly disappoints them.

    You jews and lefties: the Sky is getting ready to fall on you. Can you comprehend that?

    Joe Webb Joe Webb

    Read More
    • Replies: @Clyde
    Its so nutty here that sometimes I think the posters are running false flag operations.
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  82. @pete mangum
    You couldn't carry Giraldi's water! Even former Judge, Andrew Napolitano, has shown where the FBI has concocted at least 20 false "terrorism plots" in order to advance the phony 'War on Terror.' Can't have a 'War on Terror' if no "terrists" show up, now can we!? Your smug, insulting comments regarding Giraldi asside, I highly doubt Phil could have amassed the sterling career he did by being "ridiculous" about anything. You obviously know nothing of the man and haven't followed his contributions in the many periodicals he is linked to. His expertise has, more than once, blown the lid off the relentless government propaganda we are burdened with on a daily basis.

    What have you done, lately!?

    Giraldi could have written the paragraph better. He pointed out the rank hypocrisy or double dealing with element of irony but if someone’s first language is not English, or if one is simply not intimately familiar with the subject, it could easily be either confusing or misconstrued.

    My own opinion is Phil had run down a rabbit trail with this article but perhaps deliberately so; knowing full well there will be commenters will open the possibilities wide enough for any truly investigative readers drive a truck through.

    Is it enough an on-scene, live witness contradicts the subsequent media narrative to understand all is not well in Oz? It should be (speaking of the ‘alternative obvious’ or the fact someone who actually saw the crime going down and is speaking immediately and freshly immersed in the experience, relates facts altogether at odds with officialdom’s narrative.)

    Read More
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  83. KA says:
    @Haxo Angmark
    and then there's the "missing" 3rd shooter. Overall, though, this one looks like an actual and for real flag: because Muslim. They are what they are, and do what they do. And should not be here in the first place

    Muslim have been here for a while long before American inspired political color coded revolution gave rise to terrorism .
    By the way, America hasn’t paid Syrian,Iraqi,Indonesian,and Iranian yet . Its long overdue while America continues to rake up more debt by engaging in same destructive antiliberal anti secular anti progressive anti human behaviors in other parts of the world through CIA inspired destructive plots against the citizenry who looked up to America with respect,faith,trust and hopes for decolonization,for cultural and intellectual growth.

    911 has been happening to some of these countries every 6 month for decades .
    California shooting has been occurring to some of these countries every month for years .

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  84. joe webb says:

    What is really going on department. You conspiracy and false flag windbags are twisting in the wind of political reality. Political science, not political science-fiction, please

    Here is a nice summing up from a liberal in Financial Times, and my counter proposal. Mine is first. The thing is really transparent, like the neocons, but the borderline paranoids prefer to look for Dark Sources, Deep States, Television scenarios, and harp of 9-11-01 (the Arabs done it and the rest of the discourse is just crap. The Arabs had plenty of motivation, and Israel and neocons did not need to reinvent the wheel, they had total US support for their wars, etc)

    So.

    j

    [MORE]

    Subject: Financial Times on the Blondes on horseback…enjoy.

    The author appears to be a jew. He does tell us what is “disturbing” in our wonderful pluralist multi-racy liberal democracy. He does
    tell us: “The overarching development is a loss of faith in traditional political elites and a search for radical alternatives. Behind that, it seems to me, there are four broad trends: an increase in economic insecurity, a backlash against immigration, a fear of terrorism and the decline of traditional media.”

    He does tell us that racism is here with the insurgency of Trump and Le Pen-Europe.

    He does not tell us what might be wrong with “liberal democracy in the west.” He tells us what the reactions are, but does not deliver on what the primary problems are.

    What are the primary problems?. I will enlighten the jew. First, the MSM media lies all the time , especially with regard to niggers, and the people most responsible for the lies are the jews, who have been waging culture war against whites for almost a century, from academe to media, which they own or control.. (and what really scares him is his “decline of traditional media.” Read decline of jews here.)

    Second, the Liberal believes in creeds, words of Declaration, in this case, of Belief in Civics Lessons that willChange! savages. Leave your natural land of tyranny, like China, or Africa, or the Middle East, etc. and recite after me: “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal”…etc. Great you are now an American Citizen! Get rich, get laid, get welfare, whatever turns you on.

    Third, the manifest Failure of all these Words to influence or change the actual behavior of all these wretches, has been becoming obvious to white people who have to live with the wretches. Jewyorktimes Wordsmiths live in their own physical and mental worlds…worlds away from the biological realities of darkies. The pursuit of happiness, a vexed formulation in the first place, has degenerated into the absolute pursuit of money and status, and the biological reality underlying that is that only the top , say 15 % are smart enough to play. The rest are consigned to economic immiseration thru the internationalizing of Capital, Globalism, which undermines not only incomes of most people, but violates national sovereignty, borders, and the human biology (not rights) of man as a social animal who needs to feel comfortable in everyday surroundings.

    That means, that Strangers, assault comfort. Pretty hard to understand for the abstracted pointy-headed intellectuals who have their own insulated day to day lives, pursuing their money , sex, and power with folks pretty much like themselves. Not much genetic Dissimilarity to deal with. In short Big Words, not actually existing people who prefer to be with their own (race).

    Fourth, given the failure of Words to change the world, biological reality comes into fierce opposition to “Diversity of Races making us Stronger” once the races have been herded together by Liberalism. Hence, the Utter Failure of niggers now over the last half-century, has them Hitting the Wall of Reality, even though they refuse to accept biology and continue on aping their jewish handlers…Culture, Culture, Culture…the Lie of all Lies. They have hit the Wall, and the Liberals continue wringing, or washing, their hands….yes the blood is on their hands for mau-mauing the niggers to rebel against nature (especially Jews in their 20th century war on whites having written pretty much all the race-equality books).

    What else? Yes, immigration presents the same inter-racial pathology, and so the US is down to about 60% White and there are more non-white babies being born now than white babies. This is perceived by almost all whites as a threat. Strange but true, just as all the news from around the world is that multi-racial societies are in constant states of civil war. This is also largely true of multi -religious societies.

    Fifth, nothing disturbs folks more (besides actual murder, rape, etc) than being lied to. Broken Promises too. We have been lied to about Race, principally by jews who have their agenda of hatred for whites, but as importantly by globalists who want One World, not of love and peace, although they preach about that too, but for Universal Consumerhood. This is the second most important lie or broken promise after Race.

    What in short is wrong with LIberalism? It Believes in Big Words that have nothing to do with the human biological condition. And it uses those Beliefs to mask their greed for money and prestige. Liberalism is the inheritor of communism…still dreaming about Perfect Worlds while willing to kill the doubters and counter-revolutionaries. It starts with No Free Speech for Racists. Next it is dragging all the Big Words, like vile, or virulent, or racist, or fascist, etc out to vilify the opposition. Those who say No, are killers of the Dream.

    That is correct. The Liberal Multi-racial Dream is actually hate-filled, hate for Whites, hate for successful people… especially white males, hate for the real biological world, made by God or Nature. Utopia mens Nowhere. Dystopia is Everywhere more or less outside of Europe and the White world. And, liberalism is driving whites toward the jungle of our homo sapiens cousins, all to be dissolved in One World of stupidity , violence, lawlessness.

    Whites are awakening to the nightmare unfolding before their eyes. And yes, for the Jews especially, The Sky is Falling.

    Joe Webb

    November 30, 2015 5:34 pm
    We deride chances of Marine Le Pen and Donald Trump at our peril
    Gideon Rachmann

    The rise of political extremists says something disturbing about liberal democracy in the west

    I
    hav

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    • Replies: @Clyde

    You conspiracy and false flag windbags are twisting in the wind of political reality. Political science, not political science-fiction, please
     
    All this false flag buffoonery started with the 2008 Ron Paul presidential movement. Which drew in lots of young people with its promises to legalize marijuana. My take is that most of what you mention plus the general paranoia comes from minds weakened by smoking pot.
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  85. @christo
    "why would Jackie have started to climb out of the back of the car?"

    Jeezus! are you dense ? In sheer panic and horrified and You husband's brains just got splattered all on you , and you wonder why she didn't duck? Where? next to him who just got his head bloawn off? That's rich.

    Besides the shots were coming in from a high elevation , there was no cover in that convertible.

    Jeezus! are you dense ?

    I don’t know nuthin about the physics of shooting, etc.

    but even so –

    it seems to me climbing out of the walls of the machine offered up more target space than if she had done a duck-and-cover, scrunching up her body as small as possible.

    did the Secret Service who is running toward her call to her? Did she call to him?

    on the topic at hand, specifically the marriage services: Pat Lang posted this:

    http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2015/12/httpwwwfoxnewscomus20151209investigators-believe-syed-farook-planned-attack-prior-to-san-bernardino.html

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  86. @bondo
    3 athletic white guys
    they were called white because they were white as in white

    “they were called white because they were white as in white”

    Surely, you must realize that not every person in the USA, automatically identifies fundamentally Caucasoid people from the Middle East as being other-than-White, based on little more than a passing glance? Or should that obvious fact be ignored, simply because it doesn’t fit into your preconceived notion of what has occurred here?

    At least be honest enough with yourself to admit you do not know what has occurred. Neither do I, FFS. Virtually no one truly does.

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    • Replies: @alexander
    True enough Mr O'keeffe,

    We should all be honest with ourselves about that.

    But imagine if the media ran with" the three big white guys" scenario, "not" the "Newlywed ISIS Jihadists"..

    Would Donald Trump be calling for expelling" big white guys" from our country?

    Himself included ?

    , @bondo
    responding to #86

    " Witness, Juan Hernandez, channel 41 NBC: Juan describes seeing “3 white male shooters” in tactical gear leaving the scene of the shooting and getting into the black SUV. His statement matches what another witness, Sally Abdelmageed, told CBS. The video of his statement is below followed by a transcript of her statement and a video of that as well."


    police, if honest, will search for euro/amer/khazar type white males.

    be a bit more honest with your vaseline-coated, forked tongue, time-wasting response.

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  87. @Christo
    Nice shot of Jackie O. The rest of the article was somewhat lost after that.

    “Nice shot of Jackie O.”

    Yeah, I don’t think I’d ever seen that picture before; presumably it was somewhat suppressed, for the sake of the then-First Lady. Outside its tragic context, the darn thing is borderline erotic.

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    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
    there's a lot that's weird about the photo.

    What's that head-like shape on her left shoulder?

    What's all that stuff that looks like a small rug in her right arm side- front?

    The people on the sidewalk seem unaware of anything going on; they are looking in a direction behind the limousine rather that fixed on it in rubber-necking fashion, which is what one would expect if they were aware of a catastrophe. Based on their postures, bystanders do not appear to be perturbed or distressed.

    You husband’s brains just got splattered all on you
     
    Fortunately, JFK managed to splatter his brains without staining his suit, shirt, or pocket square.
    His posture looks almost posed; truly weird. There's no evidence of damage to his head-face-body, just that he does not appear alert and aware.
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  88. @Kevin O'Keeffe
    "Nice shot of Jackie O."

    Yeah, I don't think I'd ever seen that picture before; presumably it was somewhat suppressed, for the sake of the then-First Lady. Outside its tragic context, the darn thing is borderline erotic.

    there’s a lot that’s weird about the photo.

    What’s that head-like shape on her left shoulder?

    What’s all that stuff that looks like a small rug in her right arm side- front?

    The people on the sidewalk seem unaware of anything going on; they are looking in a direction behind the limousine rather that fixed on it in rubber-necking fashion, which is what one would expect if they were aware of a catastrophe. Based on their postures, bystanders do not appear to be perturbed or distressed.

    You husband’s brains just got splattered all on you

    Fortunately, JFK managed to splatter his brains without staining his suit, shirt, or pocket square.
    His posture looks almost posed; truly weird. There’s no evidence of damage to his head-face-body, just that he does not appear alert and aware.

    Read More
    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus

    The people on the sidewalk seem unaware of anything going on; they are looking in a direction behind the limousine rather that fixed on it
     
    --- so it is not likely that Jackie screamed to the Secret Service men or bystanders would have been looking in the direction of the noise, not away from it.
    , @Kevin O'Keeffe
    "What’s that head-like shape on her left shoulder?"

    I'm pretty sure that's her hat.
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  89. @SolontoCroesus
    there's a lot that's weird about the photo.

    What's that head-like shape on her left shoulder?

    What's all that stuff that looks like a small rug in her right arm side- front?

    The people on the sidewalk seem unaware of anything going on; they are looking in a direction behind the limousine rather that fixed on it in rubber-necking fashion, which is what one would expect if they were aware of a catastrophe. Based on their postures, bystanders do not appear to be perturbed or distressed.

    You husband’s brains just got splattered all on you
     
    Fortunately, JFK managed to splatter his brains without staining his suit, shirt, or pocket square.
    His posture looks almost posed; truly weird. There's no evidence of damage to his head-face-body, just that he does not appear alert and aware.

    The people on the sidewalk seem unaware of anything going on; they are looking in a direction behind the limousine rather that fixed on it

    — so it is not likely that Jackie screamed to the Secret Service men or bystanders would have been looking in the direction of the noise, not away from it.

    Read More
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  90. Clyde says:
    @joe webb
    What is really going on department. You conspiracy and false flag windbags are twisting in the wind of political reality. Political science, not political science-fiction, please

    Here is a nice summing up from a liberal in Financial Times, and my counter proposal. Mine is first. The thing is really transparent, like the neocons, but the borderline paranoids prefer to look for Dark Sources, Deep States, Television scenarios, and harp of 9-11-01 (the Arabs done it and the rest of the discourse is just crap. The Arabs had plenty of motivation, and Israel and neocons did not need to reinvent the wheel, they had total US support for their wars, etc)

    So.

    j


    Subject: Financial Times on the Blondes on horseback...enjoy.

    The author appears to be a jew. He does tell us what is "disturbing" in our wonderful pluralist multi-racy liberal democracy. He does
    tell us: "The overarching development is a loss of faith in traditional political elites and a search for radical alternatives. Behind that, it seems to me, there are four broad trends: an increase in economic insecurity, a backlash against immigration, a fear of terrorism and the decline of traditional media."

    He does tell us that racism is here with the insurgency of Trump and Le Pen-Europe.

    He does not tell us what might be wrong with "liberal democracy in the west." He tells us what the reactions are, but does not deliver on what the primary problems are.

    What are the primary problems?. I will enlighten the jew. First, the MSM media lies all the time , especially with regard to niggers, and the people most responsible for the lies are the jews, who have been waging culture war against whites for almost a century, from academe to media, which they own or control.. (and what really scares him is his "decline of traditional media." Read decline of jews here.)

    Second, the Liberal believes in creeds, words of Declaration, in this case, of Belief in Civics Lessons that willChange! savages. Leave your natural land of tyranny, like China, or Africa, or the Middle East, etc. and recite after me: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal"...etc. Great you are now an American Citizen! Get rich, get laid, get welfare, whatever turns you on.

    Third, the manifest Failure of all these Words to influence or change the actual behavior of all these wretches, has been becoming obvious to white people who have to live with the wretches. Jewyorktimes Wordsmiths live in their own physical and mental worlds...worlds away from the biological realities of darkies. The pursuit of happiness, a vexed formulation in the first place, has degenerated into the absolute pursuit of money and status, and the biological reality underlying that is that only the top , say 15 % are smart enough to play. The rest are consigned to economic immiseration thru the internationalizing of Capital, Globalism, which undermines not only incomes of most people, but violates national sovereignty, borders, and the human biology (not rights) of man as a social animal who needs to feel comfortable in everyday surroundings.

    That means, that Strangers, assault comfort. Pretty hard to understand for the abstracted pointy-headed intellectuals who have their own insulated day to day lives, pursuing their money , sex, and power with folks pretty much like themselves. Not much genetic Dissimilarity to deal with. In short Big Words, not actually existing people who prefer to be with their own (race).

    Fourth, given the failure of Words to change the world, biological reality comes into fierce opposition to "Diversity of Races making us Stronger" once the races have been herded together by Liberalism. Hence, the Utter Failure of niggers now over the last half-century, has them Hitting the Wall of Reality, even though they refuse to accept biology and continue on aping their jewish handlers...Culture, Culture, Culture...the Lie of all Lies. They have hit the Wall, and the Liberals continue wringing, or washing, their hands....yes the blood is on their hands for mau-mauing the niggers to rebel against nature (especially Jews in their 20th century war on whites having written pretty much all the race-equality books).

    What else? Yes, immigration presents the same inter-racial pathology, and so the US is down to about 60% White and there are more non-white babies being born now than white babies. This is perceived by almost all whites as a threat. Strange but true, just as all the news from around the world is that multi-racial societies are in constant states of civil war. This is also largely true of multi -religious societies.

    Fifth, nothing disturbs folks more (besides actual murder, rape, etc) than being lied to. Broken Promises too. We have been lied to about Race, principally by jews who have their agenda of hatred for whites, but as importantly by globalists who want One World, not of love and peace, although they preach about that too, but for Universal Consumerhood. This is the second most important lie or broken promise after Race.

    What in short is wrong with LIberalism? It Believes in Big Words that have nothing to do with the human biological condition. And it uses those Beliefs to mask their greed for money and prestige. Liberalism is the inheritor of communism...still dreaming about Perfect Worlds while willing to kill the doubters and counter-revolutionaries. It starts with No Free Speech for Racists. Next it is dragging all the Big Words, like vile, or virulent, or racist, or fascist, etc out to vilify the opposition. Those who say No, are killers of the Dream.

    That is correct. The Liberal Multi-racial Dream is actually hate-filled, hate for Whites, hate for successful people... especially white males, hate for the real biological world, made by God or Nature. Utopia mens Nowhere. Dystopia is Everywhere more or less outside of Europe and the White world. And, liberalism is driving whites toward the jungle of our homo sapiens cousins, all to be dissolved in One World of stupidity , violence, lawlessness.

    Whites are awakening to the nightmare unfolding before their eyes. And yes, for the Jews especially, The Sky is Falling.

    Joe Webb






    November 30, 2015 5:34 pm
    We deride chances of Marine Le Pen and Donald Trump at our peril
    Gideon Rachmann


    The rise of political extremists says something disturbing about liberal democracy in the west

    I
    hav

    You conspiracy and false flag windbags are twisting in the wind of political reality. Political science, not political science-fiction, please

    All this false flag buffoonery started with the 2008 Ron Paul presidential movement. Which drew in lots of young people with its promises to legalize marijuana. My take is that most of what you mention plus the general paranoia comes from minds weakened by smoking pot.

    Read More
    • Replies: @joe webb
    thank you Clyde. And your general point about 'young people' is spot-on, also, perhaps, young and dumb.

    I chatted up a 30 year old white gal yesterday who is a Christian, fundamentalist type. She believes the world is flat. She thinks mostly it is all lies out there. I asked her what she, a Christian thought was the primary motivation of people. She said, money. I asked her to consider that the primary motivation of all people is to belong to a social group, since man is a social animal.

    etc, in that vein. She got some of it, but then started out with God is Love...at which I suggested that God includes love, but also , per Ecclesiastes 13 or 30... A time for this and a time for that, you know. A time for killing and a time for love.

    half the whites who go to college shouldn't. 90% of blacks who start college, shouldn't, and 75% of mexicans, etc.

    The conspiracy crowd would agree to just Follow the Money. The simple response from some of the folks on this list if asked "is that all jews do?" We..lllll they would say....hhmmmmmm.
    to give them the benefit of the doubt, that is, some folks on this list.
    Joe Webb
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  91. joe webb says:
    @Clyde

    You conspiracy and false flag windbags are twisting in the wind of political reality. Political science, not political science-fiction, please
     
    All this false flag buffoonery started with the 2008 Ron Paul presidential movement. Which drew in lots of young people with its promises to legalize marijuana. My take is that most of what you mention plus the general paranoia comes from minds weakened by smoking pot.

    thank you Clyde. And your general point about ‘young people’ is spot-on, also, perhaps, young and dumb.

    I chatted up a 30 year old white gal yesterday who is a Christian, fundamentalist type. She believes the world is flat. She thinks mostly it is all lies out there. I asked her what she, a Christian thought was the primary motivation of people. She said, money. I asked her to consider that the primary motivation of all people is to belong to a social group, since man is a social animal.

    etc, in that vein. She got some of it, but then started out with God is Love…at which I suggested that God includes love, but also , per Ecclesiastes 13 or 30… A time for this and a time for that, you know. A time for killing and a time for love.

    half the whites who go to college shouldn’t. 90% of blacks who start college, shouldn’t, and 75% of mexicans, etc.

    The conspiracy crowd would agree to just Follow the Money. The simple response from some of the folks on this list if asked “is that all jews do?” We..lllll they would say….hhmmmmmm.
    to give them the benefit of the doubt, that is, some folks on this list.
    Joe Webb

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  92. joe webb says:

    Kiza, It occurred to me that kiza sounds kinda Arabic, or Middle Eastern. I just got home and googled it and sure enough it comes up in the context of Egyptian Arabic. No simple definition was there so I guess it is a place name or a person’s name. Sounds like a city or something.

    So apologies to Jews (for suggesting you were a jew). You are probably also an Egyptian Arab , Egypt scoring at the bottom of Arab IQ in Richard Lynn, IQ and Global Inequality, 2006: 81 IQ average, and this probably is explained by negro proximity to Egypt. Arab IQ average is around 85. The Arabs I have known, Christian and muzzle, like rap negro music. This music is consistent with an average IQ of 85, negro IQ average in the US.

    So perhaps your inability to “comprehend” my writing is simple biology, and not willfulness or other psychologically based disabilities.

    I repeat the White racialist position, or the HBD position on the effect of the global North on forcing IQs to rise due to extreme ice and cold. The first out of Africa and into Europe has been pushed back to 41 thousand years ago. This was just reported in jewyorktimes a few days ago.
    The last Ice Age was over about 10 thousand years ago. This means that what became Whites and northern Asians, dealt with cold conditions that selected for smarter people over at least 30 thousand years. It is that simple. Natural Selection. Luckily, not God , especially genocidal warrior God Jehovah, so that makes it easier to deal with. No Big Conspiracy in the Sky to torment the dummies.

    Arabs and most of the other races got shortchanged. So my heartfelt apologies for holding you to a white standard.

    By the way, I support Arabs against Israel and the US. I also support no Whites/jews in Arabia, or Arab lands. I also support the removal of Arabs and muzzles from Europe and the US. This is a simple plan for world peace. Israel out of the Middle East, as well.

    After due reflection, I hope you respond in sober and objective terms,

    Shalam, Joe Webb

    Read More
    • Replies: @KA
    Vocabulary can serve as the proxy for IQ in the absence of the entire test result .

    Creation of the meaning of a word ( neologism) can offer clues to the complexity of the thinking like a Rorschach test does with picture . Convoluted mental detour is undertaken to provide a veneer of seriousness and gravity to a problem which is not a problem . Emotional needs trump reason among people with psychosis .
    Ways of finding an association can show concrete thinking of a mentally challenged . It also can expose excessive over elaboration that can point to different type of serious major mental illness.
    , @KA
    That's why Sarah Palin went up north with family hoping the IQ test result would show a big increase in her generation or in the second or third. Even without that documented evidence she impressed the Neocons enough to be included as running mate of war king McCain
    BTW how the Native Americans are doing in northern reservation with big high elaborated embroidery of fixed environment based IQ.
    Why did Vikings with high IQ lose to the southern European Christian with lower IQ?
    Geography is the destiny but not the way you are articulating
    Halleluiah
    , @L.K
    Yawnnn..
    For someone so obssessed with IQ/race, you should first look at yourself in the mirror.
    You r not exactly the sharpest pencil in the box and I'm being nice.

    Please tell us you ain't a white person.... Folks like u are a disgrace to the white race.
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  93. Kiza says:
    @pete mangum
    You couldn't carry Giraldi's water! Even former Judge, Andrew Napolitano, has shown where the FBI has concocted at least 20 false "terrorism plots" in order to advance the phony 'War on Terror.' Can't have a 'War on Terror' if no "terrists" show up, now can we!? Your smug, insulting comments regarding Giraldi asside, I highly doubt Phil could have amassed the sterling career he did by being "ridiculous" about anything. You obviously know nothing of the man and haven't followed his contributions in the many periodicals he is linked to. His expertise has, more than once, blown the lid off the relentless government propaganda we are burdened with on a daily basis.

    What have you done, lately!?

    …smug, insulting comments regarding Giraldi asside…

    Gee, there are some commentators with deep personality issues. I have been considering staying away from Giraldi articles not because he writes anything wrong, he is one of the best article writers in the public domain now, but just because of his chosen topics which tend to attract the Hasbara troopers and selected loonies, as I wrote before. I find no pleasure in responding to Hasbara and/or the nut cases and it is a pure waste of time.

    Ronald,
    in my mind at least, Giraldi wrote something important in a, possibly intentionally, ambiguous way and I reacted to it. It is not an issue of mother tongue or similar. Having been on the Government payroll himself in the past, maybe his turn of phrase was to be softer on the “Government Goons who entrap”. Maybe he did not want to be openly accusational of the servants of the regime, but then he did sacrifice clarity. This is usually not the best writing practice. But Giraldi writes so much and so many good articles that it makes it hard to maintain all aspects of writing at a highest degree. Anybody who has been writing articles knows how hard it is to maintain highest standards when you write several per week for months. Therefore, I do not blame Giraldi for anything and I will keep reading his articles both here and at TAC, but I will definitely stay away from the loonie commentators such as this one and that other one joe webb. The previous Giraldi article here attracted even more of the crazies.

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  94. Tony says:
    @Rehmat
    All claims which challenge the official narrative of a criminal event, is called "conspiracy theory" - most of which have come true with the passage of time including Holocaust, 9/11, 7/7, USS Liberty, USS Cole, etc.

    In order to test the truth behind the ever-changing "official story" is to consider who benefit the most from these terrorist acts. One doesn't need a PhD to find out that Muslims never benefitted from any of these tragedies. The only "beneficiary" had been the state of Israel.

    “Our task is to recruit a barrier and once again put the fear of death into the Arabs of the area,” – Yitzhak Rabin, Israeli defense Minister (later prime minister of the Zionist entity).

    “Israeli interogators routinely ill-treat and torture Arab prisoners. Prisoners are hooded or blind-folded and hung by their wrists for long periods. Most are struck in the gentals or in other way sexually abused. Most are sexually assualted. Others are administered electric shocks,” – Ralph Schoeman, Sunday Times, June 19, 1977.

    “There is no country in the world in which use of official and sustained torture is an established and documented as is in the case of Israel,” – Amnesty International. .......

    http://rehmat1.com/2009/08/10/terrorism-theirs-and-ours/

    Looks like you are part of the problem rehmat.

    Read More
    • Replies: @L.K
    Tony to rehmat
    'Looks like you are part of the problem rehmat."

    Unfortunately, I have to agree with Tony.

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  95. KA [AKA "Carthage"] says:
    @joe webb
    Kiza, It occurred to me that kiza sounds kinda Arabic, or Middle Eastern. I just got home and googled it and sure enough it comes up in the context of Egyptian Arabic. No simple definition was there so I guess it is a place name or a person's name. Sounds like a city or something.

    So apologies to Jews (for suggesting you were a jew). You are probably also an Egyptian Arab , Egypt scoring at the bottom of Arab IQ in Richard Lynn, IQ and Global Inequality, 2006: 81 IQ average, and this probably is explained by negro proximity to Egypt. Arab IQ average is around 85. The Arabs I have known, Christian and muzzle, like rap negro music. This music is consistent with an average IQ of 85, negro IQ average in the US.

    So perhaps your inability to "comprehend" my writing is simple biology, and not willfulness or other psychologically based disabilities.

    I repeat the White racialist position, or the HBD position on the effect of the global North on forcing IQs to rise due to extreme ice and cold. The first out of Africa and into Europe has been pushed back to 41 thousand years ago. This was just reported in jewyorktimes a few days ago.
    The last Ice Age was over about 10 thousand years ago. This means that what became Whites and northern Asians, dealt with cold conditions that selected for smarter people over at least 30 thousand years. It is that simple. Natural Selection. Luckily, not God , especially genocidal warrior God Jehovah, so that makes it easier to deal with. No Big Conspiracy in the Sky to torment the dummies.

    Arabs and most of the other races got shortchanged. So my heartfelt apologies for holding you to a white standard.

    By the way, I support Arabs against Israel and the US. I also support no Whites/jews in Arabia, or Arab lands. I also support the removal of Arabs and muzzles from Europe and the US. This is a simple plan for world peace. Israel out of the Middle East, as well.

    After due reflection, I hope you respond in sober and objective terms,

    Shalam, Joe Webb

    Vocabulary can serve as the proxy for IQ in the absence of the entire test result .

    Creation of the meaning of a word ( neologism) can offer clues to the complexity of the thinking like a Rorschach test does with picture . Convoluted mental detour is undertaken to provide a veneer of seriousness and gravity to a problem which is not a problem . Emotional needs trump reason among people with psychosis .
    Ways of finding an association can show concrete thinking of a mentally challenged . It also can expose excessive over elaboration that can point to different type of serious major mental illness.

    Read More
    • Replies: @joe webb
    so, what exactly are you saying? Say it loud and clear. Plain talk is the mark of an honest man, like Trump. The circumlocutions are swirling around in your prose, like a fecal dust storm reported in places like Africa.

    The sky is falling on the liberals, and the clever political science fiction crowd of false flaggers, and other conspiracy nut cases. It is politics..not conspiracy.

    Whites have had it with the liars, liberals, and assorted hangers-on to "anything" but the truth of what normal folks call politics.

    The muzzies are dangerous, the blacks are dangerous, the mexers are dangerous...etc. that is the simple truth and the rest of that chattering is just egotistical one-upsmanship, and, cowardice.

    Joe Webb
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  96. @Old fogey
    Absolutely correct. I like your term "controlled opposition." There's a clear pattern in VT posts: the bits of truth are surrounded by ridiculous typos (showing that the poster should not be taken seriously) and usually a few indications that give the impression that the poster is antisemitic just to make it impossible for you to send the post to someone else, or to trust your own judgment in giving any credence to the evidence given.

    So where does this subthread leave Paul Craig Roberts – or the Anonymous who cited his link to VT ? It leaves me with the intention to save time by not reading PCR or VT ‘ to which I add Zerohedge and anyone who thinks it a reliable source for anything. (Zerohedge actually warns readers to assume its writers are talking their book).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Old fogey
    Thank you for your reply, Wizard. Personally, I read all these blogs off and on - but have learned over the years to read everyone's writing very carefully, and do a lot of sifting based on what seems logical in each context. None of us knows everything about anything - but occasionally you run into a blogger or a commenter who actually knows a great deal about any particular subject on any of the blogs mentioned, though, I must confess, I usually read Zerohedge for the hilarious comments to whatever topic gets posted.
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  97. @SAW
    I usually think of myself as a skeptic and am very careful when it comes to conspiracy theories, but this whole incident reeks of false flags. So he went to Saudi Arabia to pick up his new wife, without raising the slightest suspicion? Oh, come on! Every non-Muslim journalist/dissident seems to be on a FBI watchlist. But we probably won’t be able to proof any such speculations conclusively.
    Instead, we should focus on another alarming development, namely the fact that political correctness may have contributed to the success of the mass murder. Neighbors who saw the Arab newlyweds driving around all geared up and armed to the teeth didn’t report them—because of fear that they might be shamed as racists!

    It occurs to me that suspect Islamists who are living in San Bernardino might (legitimately) have less attention paid to them than in some other places. DC and NYC are obviously hotter spots but my general point is that when there are not infinite resources for surveillance there would be some sort of marking of priorities and San Bernardino location might be pretty low – in the absence of a nearby military base or flying school….

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  98. @Jonathan Revusky

    If one were set up an ISIS-linked marriage agency intended to entice lonely young men who have western passports it might be relatively easy to staff. And once the couple is actually married and in place in Europe or the U.S. there comes the indoctrination phase and you wind up with a radicalized agent in place who is at least somewhat above suspicion and carrying a passport that can be used to travel worldwide.
     
    Let me get this narrative straight. The "terrorists", ISIS, have this on-line marriage agency (or I guess could use an existing on-line marriage agency) and they put their female jihadists on there to marry Western muslims. And you, a retired intelligence professional, find this to be a credible story.

    Hmm....

    Mr. Giraldi (and the gallery...) let's think about this a second. From the perspective of the people behind this machination. They recruit the young woman who is willing to do this. She puts her profile online on this web page and attracts one or more western suitors. The plan is that she eventually marry one, go to the western country, and then, at some later point in time, carry out a jihadi suicide mission like this one.

    First question: How much lead time is necessary typically between the woman volunteering to play this role and her carrying out the mission in the target country?

    In this specific case, the couple had, apparently, a six-month-old baby, thus knew one another (in the biblical sense) for at least 15 months prior. However, there was a prior period of online courtship as well as the mundane matters of paperwork to bring the new bride over to America and so on. Also, a young lady does not put her profile online and attract serious marriage proposals the very same day. So it seems reasonable that in this case, if this story were true, there must be at least around 2 years between the woman being recruited by the terrorists and her carrying out the operation.

    2 years. Is it a reasonable plan for a terrorist organization to be able to to recruit somebody to do this and then to rely on that person to carry out the suicide mission on some date at least 2 years into the future? If I were the planner of this and had a young person willing to kill herself for a cause in front of me, would I make some plan and count on her still being willing to do so in December of 2017, let's say? Is this a realistic plan for a terrorist operation?

    It goes beyond that. Not only am I counting on this young lady to go through with this on some date maybe a couple of years after volunteering, but it involves her being able to convince her new husband to participate as well. (!!??)

    Now, at some point, I looked into the history of a suicide operation that indisputably took place. The Japanese kamikaze pilots in World War 2. You know, the Kamikaze pilots, once they volunteered for this, were kept in a special environment, where they were very constantly indoctrinated. Of course, the whole kamikaze campaign was only in the very final year of the war, and thus, there was no issue with somebody volunteering to be a kamikaze, and his handlers counting on him being willing to go through with it 2 years later! (I doubt there was more than a month or two between somebody volunteering to be a kamikaze and carrying out the operation, and in that time, they were kept in a special environment to maintain their patriotic fervor to die for their country.)

    Moreover, the young lady was living in some suburb in the United States, interacting (at least minimally) with American neighbors, for over a year before the attack. So the planner is counting on her to still be willing to go kill random Americans for the cause after this. (And convince her husband.) And kill herself despite having a newborn baby, which could have been anticipated by her handlers as well. In any case, if she was recruited as a suicide agent, why would her handlers wait until she was there a year and had a baby in order to pull the trigger on the attacks? Why not have her do it once she was there? Why would she be living in California for an entire year prior to carrying out the attack?

    Another question: To recruit one such suicide jihadist young lady, how many young ladies, on average, would you have to approach and interview before you found a single one who agreed to do it?

    I have no idea. 100, 200, 300? I would guess at a higher number offhand, but I have no idea really. And where would you find these people? But if you had to propose this to 100 young ladies to find a single one willing to do it, how could you keep the overall operation secret? Wouldn't any of the 99 ladies who declined to do this spill the beans?

    And using a woman to trap a prospective agent is not exactly that unusual in clandestine operations. The Soviets had their “sparrows” and western intelligence exploited “honeypot” operations.

     

    Mr. Giraldi, how many of these Soviet "sparrow" or western intelligence "honeypot" operations involved the "sparrow" or "honeypot" committing suicide?

    So I am actually kind of inclined towards the viability of the marriage agency idea and I will explain why.
     
    You are "inclined towards the viability" of the marriage agency sort of op, eh? Did any of the problems I outline above occur to you?

    Now, even if, for the sake of argument, Mr. Giraldi, I agreed (or pretended to agree) that such an operation was "viable", is there the slightest shred of proof that this narrative is true?

    All of which means that nothing would come to the surface even if Tashfeen Malik had been a raving militant, which just might have been the case.
     
    Of course, if Tashfeen Malik were just a normal young woman using a normal matrimonial agency, nothing would come to the surface either....

    (If you, Mr. Giraldi were a psychopathic murderer and I met you, I might not detect anything abnormal. (Bring on the spooky music....) Of course, if you were a normal person and I met you, I might also not detect anything odd either.... So isn't this all a tad vacuous, Mr. Giraldi?)

    Anyway, you know, a further point is that, even if a background check came up with glaring red lights and Deep State operatives wanted this attack to to go forward because it suited their agenda, then we can suppose that she would have been given the go-ahead to immigrate nonetheless, no?

    But regardless.... this matrimonial agency story... Mr. Giraldi, is this maybe your proverbial "jumping the shark" moment? Don't get me wrong, I have read your articles for some time now and do not have a bad opinion of you on that basis, but now that I have read this jihadi matrimonial agency story -- which, as far as I can see, cannot possibly be true for extremely obvious reasons -- it will be hard for me to ever take anything you say seriously again. Granted, you may not care, probably don't, but I guess it's only fair to tell you this...

    That probably applies to other people as well. I can only speak for myself, but when I hear this stuff from somebody, that's it! I can't take the person seriously after that, sorry. But I guess you don't mind.

    Maybe the joke is on me and all this jihadi matrimonial agency thing is in jest. But we're still a long ways from April 1, Mr. Giraldi.

    Oh, final question, Mr. Giraldi, just in case you didn't mistake the date for 1 April and are serious, what specifically is the motive for the people back in Saudi Arabia to do all this? To recruit a woman to marry a western guy, go live in the West, radicalize the dude, and jointly Bonnie and Clyde style, go blazing off into jihadidom.... what's the motive? All the "sparrow" and honeypot" operations in the Cold War had some discernible motive, no? What is the motive here?

    I don't know whether, in your intel career, you actually were involved in secret operations. But, let's suppose you were, and you had an asset planted in a western country, somebody so dedicated that she was willing to kill herself if you asked her to do so. Would you waste that asset in order to kill some random disabled people there in San Bernardino????

    This is all a put-on, isn't it, Mr. Giraldi. Surely you jest....

    Wow! Look what happens when he takes his medication. And thanks to his dear long suffering Mum who hovered over him to make sure he didn’t let loose with the gratuitous vitriol which is emitted when he’s in an overwrought state. BTW did you pick up the modest hint that he’s related to John Nash?

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  99. @Sam Shama
    Well had it been about UFOs, I'd find myself in a happy state [we are not alone in the vast Universe], instead of my current condition which I can only describe as agitated.

    San Bernardino was a false flag operation.

    I need to study 9/11 carefully, but am reluctant, lest I lose sanity I have managed to preserve thus far as I approach the fourth decade of existence.

    You sound very agitated Sam and, unless I misunderstand you, a friend has shown you material within the last few hours which has converted you, from a standing start, to a belief that, instead of San Bernardino raising interesting questions about radicalisation it was an operation by some agents of US government (or if foreign, presumably Mossad, but no that doesn’t fit the anti-Assad and anti-Iran priority of Israel). If what you now believe is true surely you have a duty to ensure concerned Westerners know the truth or can help you sort through the traumatic revelations to sift truth from dross. Let’s have it please.

    BTW it seems to me entirely implausible that the San Bernardino affair would be a false flag operation designed to facilitate gun control. I am sure an American can spell out why that is only a one in a thousand possibility. By contrast it is not so implausible that a liitle Dr Strangelove in some agency might have set up the susceptible couple for an outrage which would assist some cause. There are problems. You need the couple to die. How are you going to make sure of it? And what cause benefits? Perhaps the speculative answer might be that Israel is playing a long game in which what happens to ISIS is secondary to getting the US into Syria with troops. Is that your friend’s supposition or info?

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    For a person who has never given much credence to these events, the realisation that in our organised, democratic society, with proper checks and balances, actions suggestive of the left hand being unaware of what the right hand is engaged in, comes as a shock.

    I am still unsure I read what I thought it was [not trying to be deliberately cloak-and-dagger, so do pardon this evasiveness], but that is all I can say.
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  100. Alvin says:

    Phil,

    Is it also not possible that the male killer was mentally unhinged – his father was allegedly violent and an alcoholic estranged from his wife (the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree) – and it didn’t take much to send him over the top. Still relatively young. Anger at co-workers, society, US policy ,etc.

    As for the wife (and new mother) who got married on-line, probably forced by her parents into the marriage, and possibly the husband abused her and forced her to partake in the rampage under duress – maybe the husband threatened to kill the child if she didn’t.

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  101. KA [AKA "Carthage"] says:
    @joe webb
    Kiza, It occurred to me that kiza sounds kinda Arabic, or Middle Eastern. I just got home and googled it and sure enough it comes up in the context of Egyptian Arabic. No simple definition was there so I guess it is a place name or a person's name. Sounds like a city or something.

    So apologies to Jews (for suggesting you were a jew). You are probably also an Egyptian Arab , Egypt scoring at the bottom of Arab IQ in Richard Lynn, IQ and Global Inequality, 2006: 81 IQ average, and this probably is explained by negro proximity to Egypt. Arab IQ average is around 85. The Arabs I have known, Christian and muzzle, like rap negro music. This music is consistent with an average IQ of 85, negro IQ average in the US.

    So perhaps your inability to "comprehend" my writing is simple biology, and not willfulness or other psychologically based disabilities.

    I repeat the White racialist position, or the HBD position on the effect of the global North on forcing IQs to rise due to extreme ice and cold. The first out of Africa and into Europe has been pushed back to 41 thousand years ago. This was just reported in jewyorktimes a few days ago.
    The last Ice Age was over about 10 thousand years ago. This means that what became Whites and northern Asians, dealt with cold conditions that selected for smarter people over at least 30 thousand years. It is that simple. Natural Selection. Luckily, not God , especially genocidal warrior God Jehovah, so that makes it easier to deal with. No Big Conspiracy in the Sky to torment the dummies.

    Arabs and most of the other races got shortchanged. So my heartfelt apologies for holding you to a white standard.

    By the way, I support Arabs against Israel and the US. I also support no Whites/jews in Arabia, or Arab lands. I also support the removal of Arabs and muzzles from Europe and the US. This is a simple plan for world peace. Israel out of the Middle East, as well.

    After due reflection, I hope you respond in sober and objective terms,

    Shalam, Joe Webb

    That’s why Sarah Palin went up north with family hoping the IQ test result would show a big increase in her generation or in the second or third. Even without that documented evidence she impressed the Neocons enough to be included as running mate of war king McCain
    BTW how the Native Americans are doing in northern reservation with big high elaborated embroidery of fixed environment based IQ.
    Why did Vikings with high IQ lose to the southern European Christian with lower IQ?
    Geography is the destiny but not the way you are articulating
    Halleluiah

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    Carthage. Assuming you are serious, you miss the point. It is not sojourning in the global North for a few generations. It is however, thousands of generations over a very long time period.

    Let us see. 5 generations in 100 years. 50 generations in a thousand years. Homo sapiens got into Europe starting around 40,000 years ago. 5o generations in a thousand years, over 40,000 years adds up to 20,000 generations.

    Interestingly, the Inuit, after maybe only 10,000 years now have an average IQ of about 92, which is the highest of the amerindians...whose IQ north and south america is about 83, This suggests that the cold and ice of the North has also raised their IQ several points.

    I do not know what you are talking about with regard to Palin, maybe it is a joke.

    It is not geography, it is natural selection under various circumstances, the most important of which with regard to intelligence is the culling effect in the snow and ice of Europe as well as Asia, wherein the Japanese, Chinese, and Koreans were struggling under the same burden of cold weather. They are even a tad smarter than Whites, by a few points of IQ. Their brains are a few ccs larger than white brains. White brains are about 100 ccs larger than black brains (don't know who the blacks were in this regard, African or here). Bigger brains correlate with higher IQ,

    IQ is only half, say, of the deal. Temperament is the other half. All the evidence is in with regard to genetic determination, via identical twin studies. Environment, parenting, etc. makes no difference.

    So it appears that your are not serious, just trolling a bit.

    If you have an argument, let us hear it. As of right now, you have no argument, just a veiled ad hominem attack.

    Joe Webb
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  102. @RobinG
    Abundantly (clear). I expect you'll shoot the messenger (so I'm ready for another bitch-slapping) but it looks like FBI is entertaining the "marriage bureau" theory.

    Asked whether the marriage of shooters was arranged by a terror group or terror operative, or was just a meeting of two radicals online, Comey said: "I don't know the answer to that yet... It would be a very, very important thing to know."
     
    Let's make an analogy. I don't remember if you're one of those guys here advocating pitchforks in the street, but let's say you are. So you meet someone online. Maybe at one of the personal websites of a commenter here at UR. You start doing private messages, and he finds out you're single. So he says, hey, I know a great girl, you guys think a lot alike, you'd make a great team. And you do. You meet at a Civil War reenactment in Manassas. She's a member of a Christian survivalist militia in Loudon County (just ask Phil...), but she wants more than survival: she wants transformation, and she'll sacrifice everything... yadda, yadda, yadda.
    (("But you yadda, yadda'd the best part!"....."I mentioned the Civil War reenactment."))

    Here's a link to the press conference.
    https://gma.yahoo.com/san-bernardino-shooters-radicalized-started-dating-fbi-says-153950922--abc-news-topstories.html#

    Abundantly (clear). I expect you’ll shoot the messenger (so I’m ready for another bitch-slapping)

    Hmm, I don’t know what, for you, constitutes a “bitch-slapping”. I reread my earlier responses to you and I don’t really see how they can be characterized as that.

    If you are so eager to be abused, I may disappoint you. (Besides, why should I do it for free? At least I should get the going rate, no?)

    Anyway…. where were we again? Oh, yeah. The “jihadist marriage bureau” narrative…. let’s see…. having slept on this, well, I could bend over backwards to be fair on this story and look at some of its merits. For example:

    The jihadist marriage bureau story does not violate any of the laws of physics.

    Unlike, say, the official explanation of what happened on 9/11. Of course, that a story does not obey the laws of physics is setting the bar pretty damned low. Like: “Well, at least this story doesn’t require somebody to be in two places at the same time… It doesn’t require sound to travel faster than light…” That kind of thing.

    The jihadist marriage bureau narrative possibly does not stand out in terms of absurdity. For example, we have all these “lone wolf” narratives. Like, young Adam Lanza gets up one morning, and, for no obvious reason (besides that he’s one fucked up kid) decides to get a high powered firearm, go shoot his Momma, and then go to the nearest elementary school and shoot a bunch of cute little kids. (On the same day that, surely unbeknownst to him, they’re running a live shooter drill.)

    Of course, the original lone wolf narrative is Lee Harvey Oswald shooting Kennedy. You see, he “self-radicalized” on the internet. Oh, sorry, there was no internet then so he self-radicalized reading turgid Marxist literature. Nowadays, he would have self-radicalized on the internet. He would have been sitting in his Momma’s basement, surfing these radical websites and something would go snap, he’s radicalized (!!) and then goes off and shoots some people.

    but it looks like FBI is entertaining the “marriage bureau” theory.

    You know, it’s very very hard to understand your point, Robin. So basically, the same people who will tell you with a straight face that somebody self-radicalized by looking at internet sites and then went and shot a bunch of people — these same people are now entertaining the “marriage bureau” theory.

    Uhh, so bleeping what!!??

    Now, by the way, I looked into this and the story being floated now is not the one Mr. Giraldi proposes. Mr. Giraldi’s narrative had the young lady, who was already a radical, meeting the prospective husband online and managing to “radicalize” him. But in the FBI’s version, both individuals were already radicalized prior to their meeting online. “Pre-radicalized”??? (Kind of like pre-cooked instant noodles.) (How many such people are there out there? What are the chances of two pre-radicalized individuals meeting each other on a matrimonial site online?)

    So, okay, the two pre-radicalized individuals met online and corresponded and eventually married and the woman immigrated to the U.S. They have a normal married life (nudge, nudge, wink, wink, wink, say no more) and have a newborn baby. And then after that, decide to go carry out their martyrdom operation, selecting a very high value target, i.e. killing a bunch of disabled people who, frankly, probably nobody really gave a damn about.

    Okay, the story (in its current version) does have limited merit. For example, it does not require the sun to rise in the west. It does not require any steel framed skyscraper to collapse straight down as a result of being hit in a corner by a plane…

    But, anyway, to be clear, the current narrative is not the one Mr. Giraldi proposed. His “jihadist marriage bureau” narrative is that this is somehow the basis for some kind of ISIS terrorist campaign, that they could recruit Jihadist young ladies, put their profiles on the internet, find them a husband in the west, radicalize the husband, and then, at least two years after the initial recruiting of the woman, the two go off and commit their terrorist act. (In this case, after an initial year and a half of married life where they have a newborn baby.)

    But in the new FBI version, the young lady does not radicalize her newfound husband. The husband comes “pre-radicalized”. (The wonders of America for the young jihadist housewife. she discovers pre-cooked instant foods, pre-radicalized husband…. a lot less work…. in the old country, you had to radicalize your husband from scratch….)

    (Robin, has it ever occurred to you that these people are putting out these stories on various web pages, trying to gauge which ones marginally pass the laugh test?)

    So, anyway, this maybe brings us back to the bitch-slapping issue. There is a certain kind of person who believes all these stories. Basically, it does not matter how absurd. In fact, the story demonstrably can violate the laws of physics and they will still believe it!

    I have recently begun wondering whether this kind of desperate need to be duped emerges from the same place in their diseased minds as the desperate need of the passive homosexual to be roughly sodomized. Of course, if this is the case, their condition is bound to be incurable. But, in the light of this, I wonder what is possibly the deeper meaning of your seeming request that I should administer a “bitch-slapping”. I know it was meant in jest, but, as the Bard said, many a truth is spoke in jest…

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  103. L.K says:
    @joe webb
    Kiza, It occurred to me that kiza sounds kinda Arabic, or Middle Eastern. I just got home and googled it and sure enough it comes up in the context of Egyptian Arabic. No simple definition was there so I guess it is a place name or a person's name. Sounds like a city or something.

    So apologies to Jews (for suggesting you were a jew). You are probably also an Egyptian Arab , Egypt scoring at the bottom of Arab IQ in Richard Lynn, IQ and Global Inequality, 2006: 81 IQ average, and this probably is explained by negro proximity to Egypt. Arab IQ average is around 85. The Arabs I have known, Christian and muzzle, like rap negro music. This music is consistent with an average IQ of 85, negro IQ average in the US.

    So perhaps your inability to "comprehend" my writing is simple biology, and not willfulness or other psychologically based disabilities.

    I repeat the White racialist position, or the HBD position on the effect of the global North on forcing IQs to rise due to extreme ice and cold. The first out of Africa and into Europe has been pushed back to 41 thousand years ago. This was just reported in jewyorktimes a few days ago.
    The last Ice Age was over about 10 thousand years ago. This means that what became Whites and northern Asians, dealt with cold conditions that selected for smarter people over at least 30 thousand years. It is that simple. Natural Selection. Luckily, not God , especially genocidal warrior God Jehovah, so that makes it easier to deal with. No Big Conspiracy in the Sky to torment the dummies.

    Arabs and most of the other races got shortchanged. So my heartfelt apologies for holding you to a white standard.

    By the way, I support Arabs against Israel and the US. I also support no Whites/jews in Arabia, or Arab lands. I also support the removal of Arabs and muzzles from Europe and the US. This is a simple plan for world peace. Israel out of the Middle East, as well.

    After due reflection, I hope you respond in sober and objective terms,

    Shalam, Joe Webb

    Yawnnn..
    For someone so obssessed with IQ/race, you should first look at yourself in the mirror.
    You r not exactly the sharpest pencil in the box and I’m being nice.

    Please tell us you ain’t a white person…. Folks like u are a disgrace to the white race.

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    LK, you are an idiot. My IQ is what used to be called in the top 2 per cent, got an MA from Berkeley in 1965, the best poli sic department in the country at the time. I was thrown out because I was a leftie. They were right and I was wrong.

    I would like to know what college level attainment various of you y0-yos have achieved.

    Since I assume that at least some of you don't have jobs to lose, I wonder why almost nobody uses their names. It is called cowardice. It is also trolldom.

    You are certainly a race traitor, white variety.

    Joe Webb
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  104. L.K says:
    @Tony
    Looks like you are part of the problem rehmat.

    Tony to rehmat
    ‘Looks like you are part of the problem rehmat.”

    Unfortunately, I have to agree with Tony.

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  105. L.K says:

    Investigative Journalist Christopher Bollyn has written the following re the importance of finding out the truth about the murder of J.F.K and 9-11.

    Let me ask a simple question about modern American history and politics: Why does the murder of President John F. Kennedy still matter?
    It matters because the murder of President Kennedy was not only a conspiracy, but a coup d’etat. The powers behind the assassination took control of the government and orchestrated the cover-up.
    It matters because a coup d’etat that is successfully kept secret in a democratic country means, by default, that the succeeding government is illegitimate.
    It matters because the American government continues to lie about the Kennedy assassination.
    It matters because if the government is still lying about the Kennedy assassination, it essentially means that the powers that killed John F. Kennedy are still in charge – to this very day.

    Now, let’s apply the same logic to a more recent American atrocity:

    Why does 9-11 still matter?

    It matters because 9-11 was a “policy coup.” There was no proper criminal investigation of the crime; the evidence was destroyed. Rather than an investigation, we got a prepared myth telling us that Osama bin Laden was behind it all. The real powers behind the false-flag terrorism orchestrated the cover-up and changed U.S. policies to suit their global agenda.
    Exploiting an utterly fabricated myth about 9-11, the Zionist Neo-Cons conned the U.S. government into two very costly and disastrous wars in the Middle East. To this day not one of the known conspirators has been prosecuted for their role in waging a criminal war of aggression – the supreme war crime, as defined by the U.S. at the Nuremberg Tribunal
    It matters because for more than 14 years the Bush and Obama administrations have continued to lie about 9-11 and suppressed the truth about what happened on September 11, 2001
    It matters because the mainstream media, which I call the controlled media, has pushed the official myth and the Zionist fraud known as the “War on Terror” since 9/11. The controlled media has never addressed the very real evidence and facts that disprove the official myth. It matters because if the government is lying about 9/11, it means that the powers behind 9/11 control our government to this very day. Because they speak with the same voice about 9-11 and the “War on Terror,” it must be that our media moguls and politicians are controlled by the same people.

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  106. L.K says:

    The official 9-11 story is ridiculous and doesn’t have a leg to stand on.
    It’s important to remember that even several of the high level 9-11 commissioners exhibited doubts as to the work of the commission. Here are some quotes:

    9/11 Commission co-chair Lee Hamilton said “I don’t believe for a minute we got everything right”, that the Commission was set up to fail, that people should keep asking questions about 9/11, and that the 9/11 debate should continue ”

    9/11 Commissioner Timothy Roemer said “We were extremely frustrated with the false statements we were getting”

    9/11 Commissioner Max Cleland resigned from the Commission, stating: “It is a national scandal”; “This investigation is now compromised”; and “One of these days we will have to get the full story because the 9-11 issue is so important to America. But this White House wants to cover it up”

    9/11 Commissioner Bob Kerrey said that “There are ample reasons to suspect that there may be some alternative to what we outlined in our version . . . We didn’t have access . . . .” He also said that the investigation depended too heavily on the accounts of Al Qaeda detainees who were physically coerced into talking.

    And the Senior Counsel to the 9/11 Commission (John Farmer) – who led the 9/11 staff’s inquiry – said “At some level of the government, at some point in time…there was an agreement not to tell the truth about what happened“. He also said “I was shocked at how different the truth was from the way it was described …. The tapes told a radically different story from what had been told to us and the public for two years…. This is not spin. This is not true.” And he said: “It’s almost a culture of concealment, for lack of a better word. There were interviews made at the FAA’s New York center the night of 9/11 and those tapes were destroyed. The CIA tapes of the interrogations were destroyed. The story of 9/11 itself, to put it mildly, was distorted and was completely different from the way things happened”

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  107. L.K says:

    I find the work of the brave US investigative jornalist Christopher Bollyn to be the best in demonstrating and carefully documenting the israeli/zionist connection to 9-11.
    He has made his book freely available at http://www.bollyn.com/solving-9-11-the-book

    Following r 2 great presentations/interviews with Bollyn:

    Solving 911 Ends the War – Christopher Bollyn 2015

    9/11, Israel & the Mossad Investigated with Christopher Bollyn

    Some very good points concerning zionist involvement in 9-11 are made by Dr. Alan Sabrosky, a Vietnam veteran, graduate of the U.S. Army War College, with teaching and research appointments having included the United States Military Academy & the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS).
    Israel DID 9/11 (Israeli Mossad) / interview with Dr. Alan Sabrosky

    Some of the best documentaries on 9-11.
    For me, the best one is ‘September 11 – The New Pearl Harbor’, an extensive examination of many of the aspects of 9/11. It is particularly great bc it presents in detail the arguments of those who pretend to have debunked the ‘truthers’ and in turn demolishes them.
    September 11 – The New Pearl Harbor

    http://www.luogocomune.net/site/modules/sections/index.php?op=viewarticle&artid=167

    Directly at;
    “September 11 – The New Pearl Harbor” – Full version (1/3)

    For a factual explanation of 9/11, watch this film:

    Here is a presentation by Pilots For 9/11 Truth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Laaq44SDgg

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  108. Sam Shama says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    You sound very agitated Sam and, unless I misunderstand you, a friend has shown you material within the last few hours which has converted you, from a standing start, to a belief that, instead of San Bernardino raising interesting questions about radicalisation it was an operation by some agents of US government (or if foreign, presumably Mossad, but no that doesn't fit the anti-Assad and anti-Iran priority of Israel). If what you now believe is true surely you have a duty to ensure concerned Westerners know the truth or can help you sort through the traumatic revelations to sift truth from dross. Let's have it please.

    BTW it seems to me entirely implausible that the San Bernardino affair would be a false flag operation designed to facilitate gun control. I am sure an American can spell out why that is only a one in a thousand possibility. By contrast it is not so implausible that a liitle Dr Strangelove in some agency might have set up the susceptible couple for an outrage which would assist some cause. There are problems. You need the couple to die. How are you going to make sure of it? And what cause benefits? Perhaps the speculative answer might be that Israel is playing a long game in which what happens to ISIS is secondary to getting the US into Syria with troops. Is that your friend's supposition or info?

    For a person who has never given much credence to these events, the realisation that in our organised, democratic society, with proper checks and balances, actions suggestive of the left hand being unaware of what the right hand is engaged in, comes as a shock.

    I am still unsure I read what I thought it was [not trying to be deliberately cloak-and-dagger, so do pardon this evasiveness], but that is all I can say.

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    Discovering that the left hand doesn't necessarily know what the right hand is doing, beyond the obvious fact that communication sometimes fails, can be reassuring or the opposite. It's perhaps worrying that the President does know all about drone strikes including those which kill 16 year old US citizens without trial (though I may come down on the side of those who say "thank God he's no Jimmy Carter". But to find that there was a former CIA officer as V-P making a fortune out of arms deals and organising false flag operations that the President doesn't know about and wouldn't approve would be another thing altogether.

    And to find agencies or parts of them right out of control of the elected governmrnt rates perhaps 3 out of 10 if it involves gross inflation of costs to the taxpayer on renewable energy supports but at least 8 out of 10 if it is like the Mafia connections to some Italian governments and covers the moving if not killing of judges. So....

    We know some people in or connected to government will know more about critical matters than those whom we would like to think are in charge. Whether your information deserves outrage or a resigned shrug (or scepticism) I can only guess without more info from you.

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  109. joe webb says:
    @KA
    That's why Sarah Palin went up north with family hoping the IQ test result would show a big increase in her generation or in the second or third. Even without that documented evidence she impressed the Neocons enough to be included as running mate of war king McCain
    BTW how the Native Americans are doing in northern reservation with big high elaborated embroidery of fixed environment based IQ.
    Why did Vikings with high IQ lose to the southern European Christian with lower IQ?
    Geography is the destiny but not the way you are articulating
    Halleluiah

    Carthage. Assuming you are serious, you miss the point. It is not sojourning in the global North for a few generations. It is however, thousands of generations over a very long time period.

    Let us see. 5 generations in 100 years. 50 generations in a thousand years. Homo sapiens got into Europe starting around 40,000 years ago. 5o generations in a thousand years, over 40,000 years adds up to 20,000 generations.

    Interestingly, the Inuit, after maybe only 10,000 years now have an average IQ of about 92, which is the highest of the amerindians…whose IQ north and south america is about 83, This suggests that the cold and ice of the North has also raised their IQ several points.

    I do not know what you are talking about with regard to Palin, maybe it is a joke.

    It is not geography, it is natural selection under various circumstances, the most important of which with regard to intelligence is the culling effect in the snow and ice of Europe as well as Asia, wherein the Japanese, Chinese, and Koreans were struggling under the same burden of cold weather. They are even a tad smarter than Whites, by a few points of IQ. Their brains are a few ccs larger than white brains. White brains are about 100 ccs larger than black brains (don’t know who the blacks were in this regard, African or here). Bigger brains correlate with higher IQ,

    IQ is only half, say, of the deal. Temperament is the other half. All the evidence is in with regard to genetic determination, via identical twin studies. Environment, parenting, etc. makes no difference.

    So it appears that your are not serious, just trolling a bit.

    If you have an argument, let us hear it. As of right now, you have no argument, just a veiled ad hominem attack.

    Joe Webb

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  110. joe webb says:
    @L.K
    Yawnnn..
    For someone so obssessed with IQ/race, you should first look at yourself in the mirror.
    You r not exactly the sharpest pencil in the box and I'm being nice.

    Please tell us you ain't a white person.... Folks like u are a disgrace to the white race.

    LK, you are an idiot. My IQ is what used to be called in the top 2 per cent, got an MA from Berkeley in 1965, the best poli sic department in the country at the time. I was thrown out because I was a leftie. They were right and I was wrong.

    I would like to know what college level attainment various of you y0-yos have achieved.

    Since I assume that at least some of you don’t have jobs to lose, I wonder why almost nobody uses their names. It is called cowardice. It is also trolldom.

    You are certainly a race traitor, white variety.

    Joe Webb

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  111. joe webb says:
    @KA
    Vocabulary can serve as the proxy for IQ in the absence of the entire test result .

    Creation of the meaning of a word ( neologism) can offer clues to the complexity of the thinking like a Rorschach test does with picture . Convoluted mental detour is undertaken to provide a veneer of seriousness and gravity to a problem which is not a problem . Emotional needs trump reason among people with psychosis .
    Ways of finding an association can show concrete thinking of a mentally challenged . It also can expose excessive over elaboration that can point to different type of serious major mental illness.

    so, what exactly are you saying? Say it loud and clear. Plain talk is the mark of an honest man, like Trump. The circumlocutions are swirling around in your prose, like a fecal dust storm reported in places like Africa.

    The sky is falling on the liberals, and the clever political science fiction crowd of false flaggers, and other conspiracy nut cases. It is politics..not conspiracy.

    Whites have had it with the liars, liberals, and assorted hangers-on to “anything” but the truth of what normal folks call politics.

    The muzzies are dangerous, the blacks are dangerous, the mexers are dangerous…etc. that is the simple truth and the rest of that chattering is just egotistical one-upsmanship, and, cowardice.

    Joe Webb

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    you are just another blowhard like Trump with little knowledge and excess of vapor.

    Read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

    would have been around the time when you were a younger 'leftie' and still in possession of a few grey cells, eh?
    , @Jonathan Revusky

    My IQ is what used to be called in the top 2 per cent, got an MA from Berkeley in 1965, the best poli sic department in the country at the time.
     
    Well, nobody's perfect...

    The muzzies are dangerous, the blacks are dangerous, the mexers are dangerous…etc. that is the simple truth...
     
    And after the MA from Berkeley, you got a ph.D. from the Archie Bunker Institute of Advanced Studies...
    , @KA
    You can be Einstein in physics but in other areas , well,we may have problem to rely on your unsupported claims .
    Hopefully next time more on solid evidence and less on polemic.
    All you need is to shift your emphasis from irrelevance on to relevance .
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  112. @SolontoCroesus
    there's a lot that's weird about the photo.

    What's that head-like shape on her left shoulder?

    What's all that stuff that looks like a small rug in her right arm side- front?

    The people on the sidewalk seem unaware of anything going on; they are looking in a direction behind the limousine rather that fixed on it in rubber-necking fashion, which is what one would expect if they were aware of a catastrophe. Based on their postures, bystanders do not appear to be perturbed or distressed.

    You husband’s brains just got splattered all on you
     
    Fortunately, JFK managed to splatter his brains without staining his suit, shirt, or pocket square.
    His posture looks almost posed; truly weird. There's no evidence of damage to his head-face-body, just that he does not appear alert and aware.

    “What’s that head-like shape on her left shoulder?”

    I’m pretty sure that’s her hat.

    Read More
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  113. Sam Shama says:
    @joe webb
    so, what exactly are you saying? Say it loud and clear. Plain talk is the mark of an honest man, like Trump. The circumlocutions are swirling around in your prose, like a fecal dust storm reported in places like Africa.

    The sky is falling on the liberals, and the clever political science fiction crowd of false flaggers, and other conspiracy nut cases. It is politics..not conspiracy.

    Whites have had it with the liars, liberals, and assorted hangers-on to "anything" but the truth of what normal folks call politics.

    The muzzies are dangerous, the blacks are dangerous, the mexers are dangerous...etc. that is the simple truth and the rest of that chattering is just egotistical one-upsmanship, and, cowardice.

    Joe Webb

    you are just another blowhard like Trump with little knowledge and excess of vapor.

    Read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

    would have been around the time when you were a younger ‘leftie’ and still in possession of a few grey cells, eh?

    Read More
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  114. joe webb says:

    with regard to Northwoods, maybe you missed this line in the thread you offered. “the proposals were rejected by the Kennedy administration.[2]”

    You are incapable of a sustained argument because you have no argument, just wild ad hominems.

    Take the Phoenix program in Vietnam, to assassinate suspected VC (communists). That was utilized for some time. I went to jail as in civil disobedience over Vietnam…1967.

    I may have been right or wrong, but I did something more than you damned fools blubbering about false flags. I continue to act locally and am well known to the local cops with regard to immigration and race . In other words, i got balls and you got resentment.

    Joe Webb

    Read More
    • Replies: @KA
    With an average cranial capacity of 1600 cm3, the cranial capacity of Neanderthals is notably larger than the 1400 cm3 average for modern humans, indicating that their brain size was larger.
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  115. @joe webb
    so, what exactly are you saying? Say it loud and clear. Plain talk is the mark of an honest man, like Trump. The circumlocutions are swirling around in your prose, like a fecal dust storm reported in places like Africa.

    The sky is falling on the liberals, and the clever political science fiction crowd of false flaggers, and other conspiracy nut cases. It is politics..not conspiracy.

    Whites have had it with the liars, liberals, and assorted hangers-on to "anything" but the truth of what normal folks call politics.

    The muzzies are dangerous, the blacks are dangerous, the mexers are dangerous...etc. that is the simple truth and the rest of that chattering is just egotistical one-upsmanship, and, cowardice.

    Joe Webb

    My IQ is what used to be called in the top 2 per cent, got an MA from Berkeley in 1965, the best poli sic department in the country at the time.

    Well, nobody’s perfect…

    The muzzies are dangerous, the blacks are dangerous, the mexers are dangerous…etc. that is the simple truth…

    And after the MA from Berkeley, you got a ph.D. from the Archie Bunker Institute of Advanced Studies…

    Read More
    • Replies: @joe webb
    was archie bunker an anti-semite? nah, the jews who developed the program were of course jews, like Abner...was that he name? Hate whites. TV....a house with a TV is occupied territory, except now that we got a little debate going with Fox, which i don't bother to watch either.

    You guys got the sense of humor of a smart 12 year old. Is that all you got? Kinda like Frost, I think it was, who bent over to suggest people like me watch too much porn. Disgraced himself. If it was not Frost, my apologies.

    joe Webb

    is revulsky your name or just your nick-name as in revulsion? sounds jewish either way. you still got no argument, just like blacks, muzzies, mexicans and other fanatics. but you do have spleen.
    But otherwise, no guts.
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  116. joe webb says:

    re #109. correction. not 20,000 generations, but 1500 generations. sorry, haste makes waste.

    reminds me of the guy who recently bred tame foxes from just a few generations of fox pups.

    He unnaturally selected the tamest fox pups and bred them, selecting only the tamest, and finally got tame foxes.

    Arguably, breeding for intelligence might be a bit harder, but discarding the dumbest foxes or humans would vastly speed up the evolution of smarties. Doubtless, the ice and cold of tens of thousands of years has bred foxes wild enough to keep themselves alive.

    Whites are breeding for tameness, liberal pussies. Not enough to keep ourselves alive as a race.
    Buy the junk on TV and do not have children. Be a real pussy with boy-toys, instead of children, who, yes, do not necessarily to what they are told.

    .Joe Webb

    Read More
    • Replies: @geokat62

    re #109. correction. not 20,000 generations, but 1500 generations.
     
    Joe, if there are 5o generations in a thousand years, don't 40,000 years add up to 2,000 generations?
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  117. Clyde says:
    @joe webb
    the twice named is just a typo, but your inability to read bespeaks probably your race, jew, in this case, rather than basic IQ. Cannot stand the Truth. Vast reaction formation moves in like a tidal wave and your brain goes ker-thunk, like Ice-9. Liberals will die in droves, mostly from suicide as the world bitterly disappoints them.

    You jews and lefties: the Sky is getting ready to fall on you. Can you comprehend that?

    Joe Webb Joe Webb

    Its so nutty here that sometimes I think the posters are running false flag operations.

    Read More
    • Replies: @joe webb
    then the question would be....what flag? I would go with simple personal egoism. Joe Webb
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  118. joe webb says:
    @Jonathan Revusky

    My IQ is what used to be called in the top 2 per cent, got an MA from Berkeley in 1965, the best poli sic department in the country at the time.
     
    Well, nobody's perfect...

    The muzzies are dangerous, the blacks are dangerous, the mexers are dangerous…etc. that is the simple truth...
     
    And after the MA from Berkeley, you got a ph.D. from the Archie Bunker Institute of Advanced Studies...

    was archie bunker an anti-semite? nah, the jews who developed the program were of course jews, like Abner…was that he name? Hate whites. TV….a house with a TV is occupied territory, except now that we got a little debate going with Fox, which i don’t bother to watch either.

    You guys got the sense of humor of a smart 12 year old. Is that all you got? Kinda like Frost, I think it was, who bent over to suggest people like me watch too much porn. Disgraced himself. If it was not Frost, my apologies.

    joe Webb

    is revulsky your name or just your nick-name as in revulsion? sounds jewish either way. you still got no argument, just like blacks, muzzies, mexicans and other fanatics. but you do have spleen.
    But otherwise, no guts.

    Read More
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  119. geokat62 says:
    @joe webb
    re #109. correction. not 20,000 generations, but 1500 generations. sorry, haste makes waste.

    reminds me of the guy who recently bred tame foxes from just a few generations of fox pups.

    He unnaturally selected the tamest fox pups and bred them, selecting only the tamest, and finally got tame foxes.

    Arguably, breeding for intelligence might be a bit harder, but discarding the dumbest foxes or humans would vastly speed up the evolution of smarties. Doubtless, the ice and cold of tens of thousands of years has bred foxes wild enough to keep themselves alive.

    Whites are breeding for tameness, liberal pussies. Not enough to keep ourselves alive as a race.
    Buy the junk on TV and do not have children. Be a real pussy with boy-toys, instead of children, who, yes, do not necessarily to what they are told.

    .Joe Webb

    re #109. correction. not 20,000 generations, but 1500 generations.

    Joe, if there are 5o generations in a thousand years, don’t 40,000 years add up to 2,000 generations?

    Read More
    • Replies: @joe webb
    yes, thank you, and I just used the 30 k years to be conservative. But yes, add on another 10 k years to get us to the relative present. I was thinking that since the ice age had receded about 10 k years ago, that Europe had warmed up some, but you are right, it was still relatively cold, so I will o with your number...2,000 generations subjected to the rigors of the North, with even the northeast Asians genotypically more bodily adapted to cold than Whites: smaller bodies to conserve calories, epicanthic (?) eye fold to deal with wind.

    Of course, the later rice agriculture did not help either. Wheat has twice the protein of rice as I understand it. Plus the article at Unz a few months ago that discussed the "cultural" selection vs. the independent wheat farmers of the west...(relatively).

    So northeast Asians are maybe a tad smarter than whites, but are far more collectivist and obedient to social norms. There are always outliers, but the Chinaman...will always be an Oriental Despot. East is east.

    Joe Webb



    Joe Webb
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  120. KA [AKA "Carthage"] says:
    @joe webb
    so, what exactly are you saying? Say it loud and clear. Plain talk is the mark of an honest man, like Trump. The circumlocutions are swirling around in your prose, like a fecal dust storm reported in places like Africa.

    The sky is falling on the liberals, and the clever political science fiction crowd of false flaggers, and other conspiracy nut cases. It is politics..not conspiracy.

    Whites have had it with the liars, liberals, and assorted hangers-on to "anything" but the truth of what normal folks call politics.

    The muzzies are dangerous, the blacks are dangerous, the mexers are dangerous...etc. that is the simple truth and the rest of that chattering is just egotistical one-upsmanship, and, cowardice.

    Joe Webb

    You can be Einstein in physics but in other areas , well,we may have problem to rely on your unsupported claims .
    Hopefully next time more on solid evidence and less on polemic.
    All you need is to shift your emphasis from irrelevance on to relevance .

    Read More
    • Replies: @Kiza
    I was never taking people who drop names, or their "qualifications", or who wave flags as relevant. As I wrote in one of my previous posts - one of the main reasons for establishing authority is to be able to lie believably with a backing of such established "authority" (call it a "brand" if you like, MSM and political parties typically use brands). The real authority never needs to establish "authority", the strength of its authority comes out of its thoughts, sentences and deeds. This is the main difference between the authority established for lying and the true authority of thought and deed.

    This is why some characters here throw their qualifications, schools and/or brand names as the basis of their authority.

    But as I wrote before, even the authority coming out of quality of thought should not be given a blank check, because people sometimes change sides. Thus someone who was an authority yesterday, may not be an authority today and vice versa. Every write up is a new challenge in terms of quality of thought and the inclination to tell the truth. Judge not by the "authority" of the deliverer, then by what you have in front of you.

    Only family and friends get a sizeable credibility credit in advance, nobody else. I hope my point is clearer now.

    , @joe webb
    what specifically is my "unsupported claim?" Come let us Reason together. Joe Webb
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  121. KA [AKA "Carthage"] says:
    @joe webb
    with regard to Northwoods, maybe you missed this line in the thread you offered. "the proposals were rejected by the Kennedy administration.[2]"

    You are incapable of a sustained argument because you have no argument, just wild ad hominems.

    Take the Phoenix program in Vietnam, to assassinate suspected VC (communists). That was utilized for some time. I went to jail as in civil disobedience over Vietnam...1967.

    I may have been right or wrong, but I did something more than you damned fools blubbering about false flags. I continue to act locally and am well known to the local cops with regard to immigration and race . In other words, i got balls and you got resentment.

    Joe Webb

    With an average cranial capacity of 1600 cm3, the cranial capacity of Neanderthals is notably larger than the 1400 cm3 average for modern humans, indicating that their brain size was larger.

    Read More
    • Replies: @joe webb
    that is correct. The difference between then and now is about 30,000 years.

    Qualitative vs. quantitative is the other difference. Brain imaging technology is advancing.

    When Stephen Jay Gould (ghoul) lied about Morton's skull measurements in his book, The Mismeasurement of Man, he was finally found out just a year or two ago by the liberals. We WNs always knew he lied.

    Morton's skulls , about 7 to 900 black and white , and I dunno if African or American for blacks, were remeasured by a team with brain imaging technology. It was even reported in jewyorktimes.
    Morton did not lie (and his primitive technology of pouring led shot, or seeds, into the craniums could have queered the results a bit, but apparently did not), but Stephen Jay Gould did lie.

    Too bad he had died before his rep was ruined.

    So, we are now getting better at the qualitative measurements as well. A recent article reported that even brain "waves" are different racially.

    Also, Blacks (Africans or US?) have a total deficit of about 100 ccs compared to whites.

    So, with regard to Neanderthal, we don't know abut the qualitative. Neanderthal as I recall lasted about 250 thousand years. So far homo sapiens is about half that. Maybe they knew something we don't.

    Also, recent work on the grey matter covering the cerebral cortex finds a difference between blacks and whites. Whites have a thicker "skin" of the grey matter as I recall.

    Then there is the general issue of just where is the 100 ccs of "missing" brain in blacks? Is it from the emotional brain, the intellectual pre-frontal cortex, or what? I would guess both.

    The brain imaging tech will probably answer all these questions soon. (Also, north east Asians have about 20 ccs more than whites.)

    If you read American Renaissance, the news section keeps up on the science of race and every few weeks there is another piece of evidence supporting racialism, or racism!

    The best single book on all of this is by Philippe Rushton, Race, Evolution, and
    Behavior", 2000. Particularly interesting for those of you who have kids or are about to do so, the physical maturation schedule for things like age of dental eruption, age of starting to walk, age of puberty...all are related to intelligence. The later the onset , the better. For example Blacks enter puberty a full year before Whites.

    We are leaving the Dark Ages of Liberalism behind, especially with regard to science and objectivity in race matters. Another recent article on identicals....with a particular focus on child-rearing, for all the parents fretting about their kids. It does not matter what you do, the kid will turn out per his genetic blueprint. One of the great things about this is that while inheritance is a powerful factor, you as a parent are usually in for some big surprises. Conservative wisdom department

    Joe Webb
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  122. Kiza says:
    @KA
    You can be Einstein in physics but in other areas , well,we may have problem to rely on your unsupported claims .
    Hopefully next time more on solid evidence and less on polemic.
    All you need is to shift your emphasis from irrelevance on to relevance .

    I was never taking people who drop names, or their “qualifications”, or who wave flags as relevant. As I wrote in one of my previous posts – one of the main reasons for establishing authority is to be able to lie believably with a backing of such established “authority” (call it a “brand” if you like, MSM and political parties typically use brands). The real authority never needs to establish “authority”, the strength of its authority comes out of its thoughts, sentences and deeds. This is the main difference between the authority established for lying and the true authority of thought and deed.

    This is why some characters here throw their qualifications, schools and/or brand names as the basis of their authority.

    But as I wrote before, even the authority coming out of quality of thought should not be given a blank check, because people sometimes change sides. Thus someone who was an authority yesterday, may not be an authority today and vice versa. Every write up is a new challenge in terms of quality of thought and the inclination to tell the truth. Judge not by the “authority” of the deliverer, then by what you have in front of you.

    Only family and friends get a sizeable credibility credit in advance, nobody else. I hope my point is clearer now.

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  123. @Sam Shama
    For a person who has never given much credence to these events, the realisation that in our organised, democratic society, with proper checks and balances, actions suggestive of the left hand being unaware of what the right hand is engaged in, comes as a shock.

    I am still unsure I read what I thought it was [not trying to be deliberately cloak-and-dagger, so do pardon this evasiveness], but that is all I can say.

    Discovering that the left hand doesn’t necessarily know what the right hand is doing, beyond the obvious fact that communication sometimes fails, can be reassuring or the opposite. It’s perhaps worrying that the President does know all about drone strikes including those which kill 16 year old US citizens without trial (though I may come down on the side of those who say “thank God he’s no Jimmy Carter”. But to find that there was a former CIA officer as V-P making a fortune out of arms deals and organising false flag operations that the President doesn’t know about and wouldn’t approve would be another thing altogether.

    And to find agencies or parts of them right out of control of the elected governmrnt rates perhaps 3 out of 10 if it involves gross inflation of costs to the taxpayer on renewable energy supports but at least 8 out of 10 if it is like the Mafia connections to some Italian governments and covers the moving if not killing of judges. So….

    We know some people in or connected to government will know more about critical matters than those whom we would like to think are in charge. Whether your information deserves outrage or a resigned shrug (or scepticism) I can only guess without more info from you.

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  124. Old fogey says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    So where does this subthread leave Paul Craig Roberts - or the Anonymous who cited his link to VT ? It leaves me with the intention to save time by not reading PCR or VT ' to which I add Zerohedge and anyone who thinks it a reliable source for anything. (Zerohedge actually warns readers to assume its writers are talking their book).

    Thank you for your reply, Wizard. Personally, I read all these blogs off and on – but have learned over the years to read everyone’s writing very carefully, and do a lot of sifting based on what seems logical in each context. None of us knows everything about anything – but occasionally you run into a blogger or a commenter who actually knows a great deal about any particular subject on any of the blogs mentioned, though, I must confess, I usually read Zerohedge for the hilarious comments to whatever topic gets posted.

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  125. @Rurik
    Hello Old fogey,

    yep, and the media reported on building seven coming down before it did!

    and then they forgot about the entire anomaly during the 'investigation" and is wasn't mentioned in the 911 commission report. I guess they figured it was no big deal.

    Why do you pay no attention to anything anyone else says which doesn’t fit in with your prejudices – even on easily ascertainable and undeniable facts. The last time someone went on with the crap about WTC7 and said it wasn’t mentioned in the 9/11 commission report someone posted the long passage where it was not only mentioned but dealt with carefully. Why do you so boorishly waste people’s time?

    Just because a BBC reporter may have misunderstood what she had been told this ridiculous nonsense about WTC 7 gets endlessly rechurned when
    (a) it adds nothing to the credibility of any of the 9/11 conspiracy theories that WTC 7 was also destroyed; and
    (b) there is a simple explanation for its collapse late in the day, namely that burning debris from one of the towers started a fire in WTC 7 early in the day and, after burning for hours without water available to quech it, it had weakened the structural steel enough for the collapse to occur.

    Read More
    • Agree: Wizard of Oz
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  126. alexander says:
    @Kevin O'Keeffe
    "they were called white because they were white as in white"

    Surely, you must realize that not every person in the USA, automatically identifies fundamentally Caucasoid people from the Middle East as being other-than-White, based on little more than a passing glance? Or should that obvious fact be ignored, simply because it doesn't fit into your preconceived notion of what has occurred here?

    At least be honest enough with yourself to admit you do not know what has occurred. Neither do I, FFS. Virtually no one truly does.

    True enough Mr O’keeffe,

    We should all be honest with ourselves about that.

    But imagine if the media ran with” the three big white guys” scenario, “not” the “Newlywed ISIS Jihadists”..

    Would Donald Trump be calling for expelling” big white guys” from our country?

    Himself included ?

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  127. Mr. Giraldi,

    Do you have an opinion on which Mossad researchers are consistently competent?

    I am particularly curious about your opinion of Bollyn (mentioned above), and Ryan Dawson, whom Ron Unz described as being “extremely persuasive” on Mossad’s 9/11 involvement:

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/was-this-the-911-new-jersey-celebration-trump-remembered/#comment-1241200

    Do you find the work of either to be of respectable quality, Mr. Giraldi? In general, can you name a researcher whom you think is a “good” researcher on this subject, to the best of your knowledge?

    Read More
    • Replies: @KA
    "Do you find the work of either to be of respectable quality, Mr. Giraldi? In general, can you name a researcher whom you think is a “good” researcher on this subject, to the best of your knowledge?"

    Crux of the matter is how to find them? Why and how to trust them?
    Government does not publish its conspiracy to overthrow foreign gov kill dissident neuter adversary,( they keep them classified for 100 yrs) Media will not get into certain of controversy if such a controversy affects its ratings or advertisement or sales or fear of jail . So the only path open to these expert is to approach the" shadowy" outlet or venue( Snowden in Russia or publishing it on Internet media not vetted by official , or printing in peripheral fringe magazines - all the above have the weak points and can be cited by the official to denigrate,to debunk and ignore )
    It is extremely difficult. It is like seeking abortion when abortion is not legal . One might find a good doctor ready to do it in basement or may end up with a criminal quack.
    This is why having the podium to express opinion is so important .( while we fight ver the right to insult other people's deeply held belief that has no importance to the society one way or another but we ignore the necessity to have political opinion expressed which has enormous relevance )

    Then there are other ways to subvert or suppress . A caller may not get through left or right radio talk show or may be cut off in the middle while Fox or CNN might invite somebody only to lecture and rail against them

    We also have bias. We may not like say what Iran is saying and then ignore the truth while we may refer to France or Germany easily and ignore what Al Quida is saying . In both cases what motivate us to do what we do with our sources depends on bias and already formed opinion.

    I will come back to that famous assertion by Bush gov employee - we create new realities and you will study that too and once you have studied it you will see that old reality under your study has moved and been replaced with new reality which you will study again only to see a new reality being created - ( I paraphrased )

    Hasn't that exactly what has been happening in post 911 world? It is a world of constant instability but one instability can predict the next . Actually that was the underlying prinicles of the PNAC / Oded Yinon . 911 can bring Iraq war. Iraq war can lead to sectarianism ,sectarianism can lead to realignment of forces ,realigned forces can lead to fresh wars or unstable regimes ,unstable regimes might engage to activities or alliances with that were not even imaginable few months before .( most among us will say - " oh,yeah! That's the Middle East ,has been always like this " or if some one is already biased against Muslim will say " what do you expect from those Muslims" )
    When a stable situation develops we might then be able to understand the sources or the origins of the trouble and conclude how it developed in an obscure corner or letter head organization 20 or 50 yrs ago.
    Also is the continuity and stability of the system. CIA is still same CIA of 1960 . So regime change can be understood as one of the activities that it still can use to further interests which depending on the loyalty or integrity of the person involved could be in or not in national interest but it has the power and contacts and money to do so. CIA might decide to change the government of NK out of national interst and might want to change Iran out of corrupting influences of Saudi or Israel and might want to sabotage Argentina because of financial interests of some powerful men
    Understanding and believing what going on or transpired depend on many factors and most of those factors also are not hard statistical or math,ethical science but involve analysis of past who benefits who cavorts with who,what changes have taken place after violent or nonviolent but unexpected and illegal changes at the top.
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  128. bondo says:
    @Kevin O'Keeffe
    "they were called white because they were white as in white"

    Surely, you must realize that not every person in the USA, automatically identifies fundamentally Caucasoid people from the Middle East as being other-than-White, based on little more than a passing glance? Or should that obvious fact be ignored, simply because it doesn't fit into your preconceived notion of what has occurred here?

    At least be honest enough with yourself to admit you do not know what has occurred. Neither do I, FFS. Virtually no one truly does.

    responding to #86

    ” Witness, Juan Hernandez, channel 41 NBC: Juan describes seeing “3 white male shooters” in tactical gear leaving the scene of the shooting and getting into the black SUV. His statement matches what another witness, Sally Abdelmageed, told CBS. The video of his statement is below followed by a transcript of her statement and a video of that as well.”

    police, if honest, will search for euro/amer/khazar type white males.

    be a bit more honest with your vaseline-coated, forked tongue, time-wasting response.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ronald Thomas West
    3rd eye witness: "It wasn't him"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWrSdY0NWgg

    ^

    , @Kevin O'Keeffe
    "be a bit more honest with your vaseline-coated, forked tongue, time-wasting response."

    So, there is one eye-witness account that validates your Zionist conspiracy theory, so that's the only evidence that should be seriously weighed, and all the other eye-witnesses were just aiding in the false flag. I see.
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  129. @bondo
    responding to #86

    " Witness, Juan Hernandez, channel 41 NBC: Juan describes seeing “3 white male shooters” in tactical gear leaving the scene of the shooting and getting into the black SUV. His statement matches what another witness, Sally Abdelmageed, told CBS. The video of his statement is below followed by a transcript of her statement and a video of that as well."


    police, if honest, will search for euro/amer/khazar type white males.

    be a bit more honest with your vaseline-coated, forked tongue, time-wasting response.

    3rd eye witness: “It wasn’t him”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWrSdY0NWgg

    ^

    Read More
    • Replies: @RobinG
    RTW-
    Convince me you know exactly what this man said - and what he meant. Your quote is very out of context.

    3rd eye witness: “It wasn’t him”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWrSdY0NWgg

     

    , @Mr. Anon
    "3rd eye witness: “It wasn’t him”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWrSdY0NWgg"

    Your assertion is ridiculous. That guy did not say that he saw the shooter and it was not him (the shooter was reportedly wearing a mask anyway). He said it in the context of "I can't believe it was him"

    There is a big difference
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  130. KA says:
    @AnonymousCoward
    Mr. Giraldi,

    Do you have an opinion on which Mossad researchers are consistently competent?

    I am particularly curious about your opinion of Bollyn (mentioned above), and Ryan Dawson, whom Ron Unz described as being "extremely persuasive” on Mossad's 9/11 involvement:

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/was-this-the-911-new-jersey-celebration-trump-remembered/#comment-1241200

    Do you find the work of either to be of respectable quality, Mr. Giraldi? In general, can you name a researcher whom you think is a "good" researcher on this subject, to the best of your knowledge?

    “Do you find the work of either to be of respectable quality, Mr. Giraldi? In general, can you name a researcher whom you think is a “good” researcher on this subject, to the best of your knowledge?”

    Crux of the matter is how to find them? Why and how to trust them?
    Government does not publish its conspiracy to overthrow foreign gov kill dissident neuter adversary,( they keep them classified for 100 yrs) Media will not get into certain of controversy if such a controversy affects its ratings or advertisement or sales or fear of jail . So the only path open to these expert is to approach the” shadowy” outlet or venue( Snowden in Russia or publishing it on Internet media not vetted by official , or printing in peripheral fringe magazines – all the above have the weak points and can be cited by the official to denigrate,to debunk and ignore )
    It is extremely difficult. It is like seeking abortion when abortion is not legal . One might find a good doctor ready to do it in basement or may end up with a criminal quack.
    This is why having the podium to express opinion is so important .( while we fight ver the right to insult other people’s deeply held belief that has no importance to the society one way or another but we ignore the necessity to have political opinion expressed which has enormous relevance )

    Then there are other ways to subvert or suppress . A caller may not get through left or right radio talk show or may be cut off in the middle while Fox or CNN might invite somebody only to lecture and rail against them

    We also have bias. We may not like say what Iran is saying and then ignore the truth while we may refer to France or Germany easily and ignore what Al Quida is saying . In both cases what motivate us to do what we do with our sources depends on bias and already formed opinion.

    I will come back to that famous assertion by Bush gov employee – we create new realities and you will study that too and once you have studied it you will see that old reality under your study has moved and been replaced with new reality which you will study again only to see a new reality being created – ( I paraphrased )

    Hasn’t that exactly what has been happening in post 911 world? It is a world of constant instability but one instability can predict the next . Actually that was the underlying prinicles of the PNAC / Oded Yinon . 911 can bring Iraq war. Iraq war can lead to sectarianism ,sectarianism can lead to realignment of forces ,realigned forces can lead to fresh wars or unstable regimes ,unstable regimes might engage to activities or alliances with that were not even imaginable few months before .( most among us will say – ” oh,yeah! That’s the Middle East ,has been always like this ” or if some one is already biased against Muslim will say ” what do you expect from those Muslims” )
    When a stable situation develops we might then be able to understand the sources or the origins of the trouble and conclude how it developed in an obscure corner or letter head organization 20 or 50 yrs ago.
    Also is the continuity and stability of the system. CIA is still same CIA of 1960 . So regime change can be understood as one of the activities that it still can use to further interests which depending on the loyalty or integrity of the person involved could be in or not in national interest but it has the power and contacts and money to do so. CIA might decide to change the government of NK out of national interst and might want to change Iran out of corrupting influences of Saudi or Israel and might want to sabotage Argentina because of financial interests of some powerful men
    Understanding and believing what going on or transpired depend on many factors and most of those factors also are not hard statistical or math,ethical science but involve analysis of past who benefits who cavorts with who,what changes have taken place after violent or nonviolent but unexpected and illegal changes at the top.

    Read More
    • Replies: @joe webb
    Steve Snegowski, The Transparent Cabal, runs down the story of the neocons and the jewish wars real good.

    Joe Webb
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  131. @bondo
    responding to #86

    " Witness, Juan Hernandez, channel 41 NBC: Juan describes seeing “3 white male shooters” in tactical gear leaving the scene of the shooting and getting into the black SUV. His statement matches what another witness, Sally Abdelmageed, told CBS. The video of his statement is below followed by a transcript of her statement and a video of that as well."


    police, if honest, will search for euro/amer/khazar type white males.

    be a bit more honest with your vaseline-coated, forked tongue, time-wasting response.

    “be a bit more honest with your vaseline-coated, forked tongue, time-wasting response.”

    So, there is one eye-witness account that validates your Zionist conspiracy theory, so that’s the only evidence that should be seriously weighed, and all the other eye-witnesses were just aiding in the false flag. I see.

    Read More
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  132. joe webb says:
    @KA
    With an average cranial capacity of 1600 cm3, the cranial capacity of Neanderthals is notably larger than the 1400 cm3 average for modern humans, indicating that their brain size was larger.

    that is correct. The difference between then and now is about 30,000 years.

    Qualitative vs. quantitative is the other difference. Brain imaging technology is advancing.

    When Stephen Jay Gould (ghoul) lied about Morton’s skull measurements in his book, The Mismeasurement of Man, he was finally found out just a year or two ago by the liberals. We WNs always knew he lied.

    Morton’s skulls , about 7 to 900 black and white , and I dunno if African or American for blacks, were remeasured by a team with brain imaging technology. It was even reported in jewyorktimes.
    Morton did not lie (and his primitive technology of pouring led shot, or seeds, into the craniums could have queered the results a bit, but apparently did not), but Stephen Jay Gould did lie.

    Too bad he had died before his rep was ruined.

    So, we are now getting better at the qualitative measurements as well. A recent article reported that even brain “waves” are different racially.

    Also, Blacks (Africans or US?) have a total deficit of about 100 ccs compared to whites.

    So, with regard to Neanderthal, we don’t know abut the qualitative. Neanderthal as I recall lasted about 250 thousand years. So far homo sapiens is about half that. Maybe they knew something we don’t.

    Also, recent work on the grey matter covering the cerebral cortex finds a difference between blacks and whites. Whites have a thicker “skin” of the grey matter as I recall.

    Then there is the general issue of just where is the 100 ccs of “missing” brain in blacks? Is it from the emotional brain, the intellectual pre-frontal cortex, or what? I would guess both.

    The brain imaging tech will probably answer all these questions soon. (Also, north east Asians have about 20 ccs more than whites.)

    If you read American Renaissance, the news section keeps up on the science of race and every few weeks there is another piece of evidence supporting racialism, or racism!

    The best single book on all of this is by Philippe Rushton, Race, Evolution, and
    Behavior”, 2000. Particularly interesting for those of you who have kids or are about to do so, the physical maturation schedule for things like age of dental eruption, age of starting to walk, age of puberty…all are related to intelligence. The later the onset , the better. For example Blacks enter puberty a full year before Whites.

    We are leaving the Dark Ages of Liberalism behind, especially with regard to science and objectivity in race matters. Another recent article on identicals….with a particular focus on child-rearing, for all the parents fretting about their kids. It does not matter what you do, the kid will turn out per his genetic blueprint. One of the great things about this is that while inheritance is a powerful factor, you as a parent are usually in for some big surprises. Conservative wisdom department

    Joe Webb

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  133. joe webb says:
    @KA
    "Do you find the work of either to be of respectable quality, Mr. Giraldi? In general, can you name a researcher whom you think is a “good” researcher on this subject, to the best of your knowledge?"

    Crux of the matter is how to find them? Why and how to trust them?
    Government does not publish its conspiracy to overthrow foreign gov kill dissident neuter adversary,( they keep them classified for 100 yrs) Media will not get into certain of controversy if such a controversy affects its ratings or advertisement or sales or fear of jail . So the only path open to these expert is to approach the" shadowy" outlet or venue( Snowden in Russia or publishing it on Internet media not vetted by official , or printing in peripheral fringe magazines - all the above have the weak points and can be cited by the official to denigrate,to debunk and ignore )
    It is extremely difficult. It is like seeking abortion when abortion is not legal . One might find a good doctor ready to do it in basement or may end up with a criminal quack.
    This is why having the podium to express opinion is so important .( while we fight ver the right to insult other people's deeply held belief that has no importance to the society one way or another but we ignore the necessity to have political opinion expressed which has enormous relevance )

    Then there are other ways to subvert or suppress . A caller may not get through left or right radio talk show or may be cut off in the middle while Fox or CNN might invite somebody only to lecture and rail against them

    We also have bias. We may not like say what Iran is saying and then ignore the truth while we may refer to France or Germany easily and ignore what Al Quida is saying . In both cases what motivate us to do what we do with our sources depends on bias and already formed opinion.

    I will come back to that famous assertion by Bush gov employee - we create new realities and you will study that too and once you have studied it you will see that old reality under your study has moved and been replaced with new reality which you will study again only to see a new reality being created - ( I paraphrased )

    Hasn't that exactly what has been happening in post 911 world? It is a world of constant instability but one instability can predict the next . Actually that was the underlying prinicles of the PNAC / Oded Yinon . 911 can bring Iraq war. Iraq war can lead to sectarianism ,sectarianism can lead to realignment of forces ,realigned forces can lead to fresh wars or unstable regimes ,unstable regimes might engage to activities or alliances with that were not even imaginable few months before .( most among us will say - " oh,yeah! That's the Middle East ,has been always like this " or if some one is already biased against Muslim will say " what do you expect from those Muslims" )
    When a stable situation develops we might then be able to understand the sources or the origins of the trouble and conclude how it developed in an obscure corner or letter head organization 20 or 50 yrs ago.
    Also is the continuity and stability of the system. CIA is still same CIA of 1960 . So regime change can be understood as one of the activities that it still can use to further interests which depending on the loyalty or integrity of the person involved could be in or not in national interest but it has the power and contacts and money to do so. CIA might decide to change the government of NK out of national interst and might want to change Iran out of corrupting influences of Saudi or Israel and might want to sabotage Argentina because of financial interests of some powerful men
    Understanding and believing what going on or transpired depend on many factors and most of those factors also are not hard statistical or math,ethical science but involve analysis of past who benefits who cavorts with who,what changes have taken place after violent or nonviolent but unexpected and illegal changes at the top.

    Steve Snegowski, The Transparent Cabal, runs down the story of the neocons and the jewish wars real good.

    Joe Webb

    Read More
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  134. joe webb says:
    @KA
    You can be Einstein in physics but in other areas , well,we may have problem to rely on your unsupported claims .
    Hopefully next time more on solid evidence and less on polemic.
    All you need is to shift your emphasis from irrelevance on to relevance .

    what specifically is my “unsupported claim?” Come let us Reason together. Joe Webb

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  135. Ron Unz says:

    I’ve been too busy with my own work to closely follow the details of the San Bernardino Massacre, but since so many of the commenters probably have, maybe they can clarify a few questions for me…

    Based on all the news reports, weren’t all of the gunmen masked? So until the police happened to see that car behaving suspiciously and soon got into a gunfight with the occupants, weren’t there zero clues about who the attackers really were?

    How much evidence is there that the wife was one of the original gunmen, rather than just some sort of accessory to her husband? Frankly, I’m not sure I’ve ever heard a case of the mother of a six-month-old baby going around blasting people with assault-weapons in a terrorist attack. That’s not to say it’s impossible, but just a little unlikely. Since she was killed with her husband in that car shootout, presumably the police would like to claim she was one of the attackers so that they could say both attackers have been caught and killed and close the case, but that doesn’t mean it’s true.

    Also, I think I read somewhere she was pretty short, maybe 5’3″. If so, aren’t assault-weapons and all those ammunition belts a little heavy for such a short woman? Supposedly, some of the massacre witnesses reported that the attackers were “whites” but since they were masked, I can’t see how they could have easily distinguished them from South Asians. But on the other hand, a 5’3″ woman just doesn’t look that much like a “man” whether masked or not, which again raises doubts about whether she was really one of the attackers.

    Anyway, I’m curious what the commenters—who’ve been following these details much more closely—think about these points…

    Read More
    • Replies: @bondo
    of course it would be a guess but an obviously white hand, other visible skin is fairly easy to tell from south asian or mexican or ?? at least from my experience.

    one witness to whiteness has a spanish name, another witness seems to have an arab name.

    a guess but a better start than anything from the authorities.

    , @Sam Shama

    Frankly, I’m not sure I’ve ever heard a case of the mother of a six-month-old baby going around blasting people with assault-weapons in a terrorist attack.
     
    Simple but key insight. Well planned patsies.
    , @Ronald Thomas West

    Also, I think I read somewhere she was pretty short, maybe 5’3″. If so, aren’t assault-weapons and all those ammunition belts a little heavy for such a short woman?
     
    Not really, if it were an AR-15 based platform and a standard field issue of say, 10 twenty round clips. Not a lot of weight or recoil, could easily be handled by a slight, well trained & determined woman. But then, perhaps a lot of excess weaponry was produced for 'the show' (I haven't paid close attention to the 'plethora of arms' stories.)

    About the 'white' .. ski masks can show the skin around the eyes, gloves can reveal color at the writs, but that's the short of it. The long of it is body-build, body language and other nuance noticed but not necessarily cognitively processed altogether in the same way; people's minds can act like a filter - "Three tall and athletic White men" - could be perfectly accurate interpretation based on composite observation of subconsciously read body language coupled to clear, cognitive reads of stature & athletic build without the witness actually understanding the process.

    I haven't seen any South Asian (yet) that was tall and athletic build by the western standards one presumes the reporting witness is describing. It's not such a person doesn't exist but I'll bet it doesn't fit the (now very dead) accused.
    , @Ry
    If the attackers were wearing mask and tactical gear most people just assume they are male.

    As for the LAPD coveting got themselves that's plausible. It's hard to tell in the Internet age but assuming it was real I saw a picture of the SUV with all the windows rolled up. They were broken but there was still cracked glass on the top and bottom. So how does one shoot through a rolled up window? We have seen how the cops shot up the wrong pick up truck and killed two people last year when they were chasing a fugitive.

    To me what is key is following the money. Where did they 28k come from?
    , @Jonathan Revusky

    Frankly, I’m not sure I’ve ever heard a case of the mother of a six-month-old baby going around blasting people with assault-weapons in a terrorist attack.
     
    To tell the truth, I'm surprised that some of the reptilian hordes who infest these pages haven't piped in with: "But don't you know, Mr. Unz, that's typical Muslim behavior...." "It's in the Koran!!"

    Stuff like that...

    Anyway, it seems to me that, once you conclude that the wife had nothing to do with it, you pretty quickly conclude that the husband was framed as well. It's true that the maternal bond with a newborn infant is extremely strong, but I hardly think the paternal bond should be discounted entirely! A father with a new wife, recently born infant, a perfectly okay job, doing something like this -- it is an exceedingly bizarre narrative. He's not somebody who has nothing to live for and would thus go out in a blaze of glory, is he? (Though I guess they used it in the JFK assassination. Lee Harvey Oswald's second daughter with Marina was born one month before the assassination!)

    In any case, the conjunction of the live shooter drill with the event tells you it was a false flag basically. It seems to me that the reason for this is fairly obvious. You see, there are a lot of moving parts to constructing the false flag, so if something goes wrong and you have to call off the operation, but leaving all the preparations for it in plain sight, then the drill serves as ready-made explanation.

    For example, suppose the masked individuals show up, armed to the teeth and everybody sees them, but then get the notification that the operation is cancelled... well, they just go ahead with the drill. At any rate, the cover for their presence is the drill. Preparations for the event as well as evidence of foreknowledge can be explained away as preparations for the drill. If somebody slips up, then he can fall back to: "When you overheard me saying that a shooting was going to happen on such and such day and such and such place (and it then did) I was referring to the drill! I had no idea there would be a real shooting that day!"

    So the drills seem to be part of their modus operandi. Apparently they had run these drills before. I read somewhere they were running these live shooter drills monthly. You know, for all we know, they had set a prior date for doing this but had previously cancelled because something went wrong. So they rescheduled more drills in the future! And finally, after a few more dry runs, the drill went live at last!

    To me, the whole thing is very strange. The whole "live shooter" scenario is something that happens very rarely really. Why would you be drilling this every month? And then on a given day when they're running the drill, in the given place, real shooters show up! We're supposed to believe this is a coincidence!!??

    So these events have drills very often and invariably they have patsies. So it seems to me that if the wife was a patsy, so was the husband. Both were. Looking at narratives in which the husband is a real shooter and the wife is uninvolved strikes me as going down a blind alley.
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  136. RobinG says:
    @Ronald Thomas West
    3rd eye witness: "It wasn't him"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWrSdY0NWgg

    ^

    RTW-
    Convince me you know exactly what this man said – and what he meant. Your quote is very out of context.

    3rd eye witness: “It wasn’t him”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ronald Thomas West
    He saw the shooter. He said "it wasn't him" .. and in same breath went on to the state the accused's character didn't match the crime. Now, if you were to take away the fact he saw the guy spraying the bullets all over the room, sure, his take on character could be mistaken. But he saw the shooter and said "it wasn't him." He's also the 3rd witness on record to dispute the narrative and happened to know the (now very dead) accused. It wasn't him.

    Meanwhile maybe you'd like to prop up your fantasy world believing our media (or whatever your naif grasp of reality is) with taking some shots at this:

    http://ronaldthomaswest.com/2015/12/11/machine-pistol/

    ^ You should study up on GLADIO RobinG

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  137. joe webb says:
    @geokat62

    re #109. correction. not 20,000 generations, but 1500 generations.
     
    Joe, if there are 5o generations in a thousand years, don't 40,000 years add up to 2,000 generations?

    yes, thank you, and I just used the 30 k years to be conservative. But yes, add on another 10 k years to get us to the relative present. I was thinking that since the ice age had receded about 10 k years ago, that Europe had warmed up some, but you are right, it was still relatively cold, so I will o with your number…2,000 generations subjected to the rigors of the North, with even the northeast Asians genotypically more bodily adapted to cold than Whites: smaller bodies to conserve calories, epicanthic (?) eye fold to deal with wind.

    Of course, the later rice agriculture did not help either. Wheat has twice the protein of rice as I understand it. Plus the article at Unz a few months ago that discussed the “cultural” selection vs. the independent wheat farmers of the west…(relatively).

    So northeast Asians are maybe a tad smarter than whites, but are far more collectivist and obedient to social norms. There are always outliers, but the Chinaman…will always be an Oriental Despot. East is east.

    Joe Webb

    Joe Webb

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  138. joe webb says:
    @Clyde
    Its so nutty here that sometimes I think the posters are running false flag operations.

    then the question would be….what flag? I would go with simple personal egoism. Joe Webb

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  139. @RobinG
    RTW-
    Convince me you know exactly what this man said - and what he meant. Your quote is very out of context.

    3rd eye witness: “It wasn’t him”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWrSdY0NWgg

     

    He saw the shooter. He said “it wasn’t him” .. and in same breath went on to the state the accused’s character didn’t match the crime. Now, if you were to take away the fact he saw the guy spraying the bullets all over the room, sure, his take on character could be mistaken. But he saw the shooter and said “it wasn’t him.” He’s also the 3rd witness on record to dispute the narrative and happened to know the (now very dead) accused. It wasn’t him.

    Meanwhile maybe you’d like to prop up your fantasy world believing our media (or whatever your naif grasp of reality is) with taking some shots at this:

    http://ronaldthomaswest.com/2015/12/11/machine-pistol/

    ^ You should study up on GLADIO RobinG

    Read More
    • Replies: @RobinG
    Not convinced, and RTW this (we would have thought) is beneath you. Apparently not.

    First, what this man says, or my question about it, is not related to what I think. Your assumptions have no basis. I've given no opinion on Bernardino, and have certainly not endorsed the official story. I'm careful what I say. Unfortunately, many are not good readers.

    Second, he makes no claim as to whether it's true or not. (Too bad if you can't understand his African accent. Listen again.) He just says that his neighbor was quiet, no problem, so he can't believe it. This is normal reaction and is not proof of anything, one way or the other. The gunmen were masked. This guy was probably stressed if he was being shot at, or watching or hearing a shooting. (Not clear if he was in the room. He could have that 2nd hand.) For this and other reasons, eyewitnesses are notoriously unreliable.

    You clearly want there to be a 3rd witness who definitively says "it wasn't him" so you hear what you want to in this tape. Sorry, no cigar. Of course, there's no way you'll back down now, right? Keep calling me stupid. Revusky has me turned on to this bitch-slapping.

    But Ron Unz is on to something. Seems there were several people who saw the gunmen from a window before the shooting. Seems like they were calm and laughing.
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  140. bondo says:
    @Ron Unz
    I've been too busy with my own work to closely follow the details of the San Bernardino Massacre, but since so many of the commenters probably have, maybe they can clarify a few questions for me...

    Based on all the news reports, weren't all of the gunmen masked? So until the police happened to see that car behaving suspiciously and soon got into a gunfight with the occupants, weren't there zero clues about who the attackers really were?

    How much evidence is there that the wife was one of the original gunmen, rather than just some sort of accessory to her husband? Frankly, I'm not sure I've ever heard a case of the mother of a six-month-old baby going around blasting people with assault-weapons in a terrorist attack. That's not to say it's impossible, but just a little unlikely. Since she was killed with her husband in that car shootout, presumably the police would like to claim she was one of the attackers so that they could say both attackers have been caught and killed and close the case, but that doesn't mean it's true.

    Also, I think I read somewhere she was pretty short, maybe 5'3". If so, aren't assault-weapons and all those ammunition belts a little heavy for such a short woman? Supposedly, some of the massacre witnesses reported that the attackers were "whites" but since they were masked, I can't see how they could have easily distinguished them from South Asians. But on the other hand, a 5'3" woman just doesn't look that much like a "man" whether masked or not, which again raises doubts about whether she was really one of the attackers.

    Anyway, I'm curious what the commenters---who've been following these details much more closely---think about these points...

    of course it would be a guess but an obviously white hand, other visible skin is fairly easy to tell from south asian or mexican or ?? at least from my experience.

    one witness to whiteness has a spanish name, another witness seems to have an arab name.

    a guess but a better start than anything from the authorities.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ron Unz

    of course it would be a guess but an obviously white hand, other visible skin is fairly easy to tell from south asian or mexican or ?? at least from my experience.
     
    Well, I suppose that's possible, but do eyewitnesses really look all that carefully at the color of the hands of gunmen who are trying to kill them from a distance in the middle of a massacre? Anyway, the hand skin color of whites and South Asians probably isn't so totally different as to be obviously noticeable in all the confusion. Furthermore, since the gunmen were wearing military-style commando outfits and masks, wouldn't you expect them to wear gloves also?

    People trying to avoid getting massacred might easily get details confused, which is why I'm cautious about assigning much weight to most of the anomalous eye-witness claims, even including the varied reports of one, two, or three gunmen. But a very short woman wielding some huge assault-weapon might be a little more likely for people to notice.

    None of this would imply any sort of "false-flag," just that the wife may not have been one of the attackers and the authorities would prefer to claim she was so that they were justified in shooting her and also that the case is now all wrapped up...
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  141. Sam Shama says:
    @Ron Unz
    I've been too busy with my own work to closely follow the details of the San Bernardino Massacre, but since so many of the commenters probably have, maybe they can clarify a few questions for me...

    Based on all the news reports, weren't all of the gunmen masked? So until the police happened to see that car behaving suspiciously and soon got into a gunfight with the occupants, weren't there zero clues about who the attackers really were?

    How much evidence is there that the wife was one of the original gunmen, rather than just some sort of accessory to her husband? Frankly, I'm not sure I've ever heard a case of the mother of a six-month-old baby going around blasting people with assault-weapons in a terrorist attack. That's not to say it's impossible, but just a little unlikely. Since she was killed with her husband in that car shootout, presumably the police would like to claim she was one of the attackers so that they could say both attackers have been caught and killed and close the case, but that doesn't mean it's true.

    Also, I think I read somewhere she was pretty short, maybe 5'3". If so, aren't assault-weapons and all those ammunition belts a little heavy for such a short woman? Supposedly, some of the massacre witnesses reported that the attackers were "whites" but since they were masked, I can't see how they could have easily distinguished them from South Asians. But on the other hand, a 5'3" woman just doesn't look that much like a "man" whether masked or not, which again raises doubts about whether she was really one of the attackers.

    Anyway, I'm curious what the commenters---who've been following these details much more closely---think about these points...

    Frankly, I’m not sure I’ve ever heard a case of the mother of a six-month-old baby going around blasting people with assault-weapons in a terrorist attack.

    Simple but key insight. Well planned patsies.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jonathan Revusky


    Frankly, I’m not sure I’ve ever heard a case of the mother of a six-month-old baby going around blasting people with assault-weapons in a terrorist attack.
     
    Simple but key insight. Well planned patsies.
     
    Wow! What happened, Shama? Did somebody give you a special gift for Chanukah this year? I mean, like.... A BRAIN!!! It must be wonderful. I still remember when, as a child, I got my first pair of glasses and could see clearly for the first time...

    I have to say that you surprise me. (Favorably.) Here I thought you would believe anything. (Among other things, you profess to believe that our co-religionists at the Federal Reserve are working tirelessly for the common good. That's a good one... Well, not just that, but anybody who suspects otherwise is a loopy conspiracy theorist...)

    But apparently the narrative of the young mother of a six-month-old infant going and doing this is too much even for you to swallow! ("I've swallowed some big ones in my day, but this one is just too big, Gunga Dinn..."). I guess when they make up a story that even Sam Shama declines to believe, they've really jumped the proverbial shark, eh?

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  142. Ron Unz says:
    @bondo
    of course it would be a guess but an obviously white hand, other visible skin is fairly easy to tell from south asian or mexican or ?? at least from my experience.

    one witness to whiteness has a spanish name, another witness seems to have an arab name.

    a guess but a better start than anything from the authorities.

    of course it would be a guess but an obviously white hand, other visible skin is fairly easy to tell from south asian or mexican or ?? at least from my experience.

    Well, I suppose that’s possible, but do eyewitnesses really look all that carefully at the color of the hands of gunmen who are trying to kill them from a distance in the middle of a massacre? Anyway, the hand skin color of whites and South Asians probably isn’t so totally different as to be obviously noticeable in all the confusion. Furthermore, since the gunmen were wearing military-style commando outfits and masks, wouldn’t you expect them to wear gloves also?

    People trying to avoid getting massacred might easily get details confused, which is why I’m cautious about assigning much weight to most of the anomalous eye-witness claims, even including the varied reports of one, two, or three gunmen. But a very short woman wielding some huge assault-weapon might be a little more likely for people to notice.

    None of this would imply any sort of “false-flag,” just that the wife may not have been one of the attackers and the authorities would prefer to claim she was so that they were justified in shooting her and also that the case is now all wrapped up…

    Read More
    • Replies: @bondo
    probably not.

    but

    muscular, in military commando clothing and weapons says spec ops contractors or israelis

    not the other this and that maybes

    too many of these incidents similar so always assume false flag until Jesus says govt innocent

    the hebdo attack had 2(?) similar individuals fleeing never found or even very much mentioned

    , @Mr. Anon
    "But a very short woman wielding some huge assault-weapon might be a little more likely for people to notice."

    AR variants are not huge. The M-4, for example, is rather dainty.

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  143. @Ron Unz
    I've been too busy with my own work to closely follow the details of the San Bernardino Massacre, but since so many of the commenters probably have, maybe they can clarify a few questions for me...

    Based on all the news reports, weren't all of the gunmen masked? So until the police happened to see that car behaving suspiciously and soon got into a gunfight with the occupants, weren't there zero clues about who the attackers really were?

    How much evidence is there that the wife was one of the original gunmen, rather than just some sort of accessory to her husband? Frankly, I'm not sure I've ever heard a case of the mother of a six-month-old baby going around blasting people with assault-weapons in a terrorist attack. That's not to say it's impossible, but just a little unlikely. Since she was killed with her husband in that car shootout, presumably the police would like to claim she was one of the attackers so that they could say both attackers have been caught and killed and close the case, but that doesn't mean it's true.

    Also, I think I read somewhere she was pretty short, maybe 5'3". If so, aren't assault-weapons and all those ammunition belts a little heavy for such a short woman? Supposedly, some of the massacre witnesses reported that the attackers were "whites" but since they were masked, I can't see how they could have easily distinguished them from South Asians. But on the other hand, a 5'3" woman just doesn't look that much like a "man" whether masked or not, which again raises doubts about whether she was really one of the attackers.

    Anyway, I'm curious what the commenters---who've been following these details much more closely---think about these points...

    Also, I think I read somewhere she was pretty short, maybe 5’3″. If so, aren’t assault-weapons and all those ammunition belts a little heavy for such a short woman?

    Not really, if it were an AR-15 based platform and a standard field issue of say, 10 twenty round clips. Not a lot of weight or recoil, could easily be handled by a slight, well trained & determined woman. But then, perhaps a lot of excess weaponry was produced for ‘the show’ (I haven’t paid close attention to the ‘plethora of arms’ stories.)

    About the ‘white’ .. ski masks can show the skin around the eyes, gloves can reveal color at the writs, but that’s the short of it. The long of it is body-build, body language and other nuance noticed but not necessarily cognitively processed altogether in the same way; people’s minds can act like a filter – “Three tall and athletic White men” – could be perfectly accurate interpretation based on composite observation of subconsciously read body language coupled to clear, cognitive reads of stature & athletic build without the witness actually understanding the process.

    I haven’t seen any South Asian (yet) that was tall and athletic build by the western standards one presumes the reporting witness is describing. It’s not such a person doesn’t exist but I’ll bet it doesn’t fit the (now very dead) accused.

    Read More
    • Replies: @RobinG
    "I haven’t seen any South Asian (yet) that was tall and athletic build by the western standards"

    Sheesh...bizarre and ignorant generalization, as well as irrelevant. There are plenty of tall, muscular Indians and Pakistanis in the US. Maybe not your stereotype. Besides cricket players, etc., there's my dental hygienist.




    Image result for shahid afridi





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    More images



    Shahid Afridi
    Cricketer




    Sahibzada Mohammad Shahid Khan Afridi, better known as Shahid Afridi or Boom Boom Afridi, is a Pakistani T20 cricketer and former Test and ODI cricketer. He is currently the captain of Pakistan T20 cricket team. Wikipedia





    Born: March 1, 1980 (age 35), Khyber Agency, Pakistan



    Height: 6′ 0″



    Spouse: Nadia Afridi



    Parents: Sahabzada Fazal-ur-Rehman Afridi



    Children: Aqsa Afridi, Ajwa Afridi, Asmara Afridi, Ansha Afridi



    Current teams: Karachi Dolphins, Pakistan national cricket team (#10 / All-rounder)
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  144. RobinG says:
    @Ronald Thomas West
    He saw the shooter. He said "it wasn't him" .. and in same breath went on to the state the accused's character didn't match the crime. Now, if you were to take away the fact he saw the guy spraying the bullets all over the room, sure, his take on character could be mistaken. But he saw the shooter and said "it wasn't him." He's also the 3rd witness on record to dispute the narrative and happened to know the (now very dead) accused. It wasn't him.

    Meanwhile maybe you'd like to prop up your fantasy world believing our media (or whatever your naif grasp of reality is) with taking some shots at this:

    http://ronaldthomaswest.com/2015/12/11/machine-pistol/

    ^ You should study up on GLADIO RobinG

    Not convinced, and RTW this (we would have thought) is beneath you. Apparently not.

    First, what this man says, or my question about it, is not related to what I think. Your assumptions have no basis. I’ve given no opinion on Bernardino, and have certainly not endorsed the official story. I’m careful what I say. Unfortunately, many are not good readers.

    Second, he makes no claim as to whether it’s true or not. (Too bad if you can’t understand his African accent. Listen again.) He just says that his neighbor was quiet, no problem, so he can’t believe it. This is normal reaction and is not proof of anything, one way or the other. The gunmen were masked. This guy was probably stressed if he was being shot at, or watching or hearing a shooting. (Not clear if he was in the room. He could have that 2nd hand.) For this and other reasons, eyewitnesses are notoriously unreliable.

    You clearly want there to be a 3rd witness who definitively says “it wasn’t him” so you hear what you want to in this tape. Sorry, no cigar. Of course, there’s no way you’ll back down now, right? Keep calling me stupid. Revusky has me turned on to this bitch-slapping.

    But Ron Unz is on to something. Seems there were several people who saw the gunmen from a window before the shooting. Seems like they were calm and laughing.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ronald Thomas West
    Well Robin, I suspect your interpretations can be as subjective as my own (note I didn't say 'anyone's')

    I bet you disapprove of police profiling as an affront to civil liberties. Without saying I approve of those measures, I will note they not only frequently snare innocents, but it is done because it also often works. People are also caught red-handed who might have otherwise not been caught.

    Intelligence analysts profile everyday. They profile events and strings of events.

    Aurora: Eye-witness account of a person positioned in the theater to open a side door to a shooter. Never investigated and quickly dropped from the news.

    Navy Yard: A SWAT team happened to be almost on top of the scene when the shooting broke out; they were ready to respond on location in the 1st critical minutes but instead were ordered to stand down and depart the area while the shootings proceeded. Initial reports of multiple shooters were quickly dropped (but the SWAT team story refused to die that easily, the team wouldn't shut up and 'play', an 'investigation' was launched and the story died with the media's short attention span)

    San Bernardino: Eye witness accounts that don't line up with the 'case closed' dead shooters. Now, here's another problem with 'San Berdoo' (local parlance, I attended college not far away), instead of the 'perpetrators' home being hermetically sealed away from the public for a detailed forensic exam, it's opened to media as though it were a stage in a high school thespian act.

    Your turn -
    , @Ron Unz

    Seems there were several people who saw the gunmen from a window before the shooting. Seems like they were calm and laughing.
     
    That's interesting. Witnesses like that, before the shooting started and who weren't running for their lives, are probably much more likely to get details correct.

    It's interesting that the husband was 6'0" and (someone said) the wife was 5'3". If, as alleged, they were the two masked gunmen and standing close to each other, I'd think the witnesses might have noticed and remembered the *huge* difference in height. Also, the witnesses all thought both attackers were men, and while a woman who's 5'3" is pretty short, a man that height is nearly a midget. Wouldn't some of the witnesses mentioned that one of the attacking commando gunmen was a midget?

    Add in the factor of her six-month-old infant, and I'm really starting to doubt the wife was one of the original commando-terrorists...
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  145. RobinG says:
    @Ronald Thomas West

    Also, I think I read somewhere she was pretty short, maybe 5’3″. If so, aren’t assault-weapons and all those ammunition belts a little heavy for such a short woman?
     
    Not really, if it were an AR-15 based platform and a standard field issue of say, 10 twenty round clips. Not a lot of weight or recoil, could easily be handled by a slight, well trained & determined woman. But then, perhaps a lot of excess weaponry was produced for 'the show' (I haven't paid close attention to the 'plethora of arms' stories.)

    About the 'white' .. ski masks can show the skin around the eyes, gloves can reveal color at the writs, but that's the short of it. The long of it is body-build, body language and other nuance noticed but not necessarily cognitively processed altogether in the same way; people's minds can act like a filter - "Three tall and athletic White men" - could be perfectly accurate interpretation based on composite observation of subconsciously read body language coupled to clear, cognitive reads of stature & athletic build without the witness actually understanding the process.

    I haven't seen any South Asian (yet) that was tall and athletic build by the western standards one presumes the reporting witness is describing. It's not such a person doesn't exist but I'll bet it doesn't fit the (now very dead) accused.

    “I haven’t seen any South Asian (yet) that was tall and athletic build by the western standards”

    Sheesh…bizarre and ignorant generalization, as well as irrelevant. There are plenty of tall, muscular Indians and Pakistanis in the US. Maybe not your stereotype. Besides cricket players, etc., there’s my dental hygienist.

    Image result for shahid afridi

    Image result for shahid afridi

    Image result for shahid afridi

    Image result for shahid afridi

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    Shahid Afridi
    Cricketer

    Sahibzada Mohammad Shahid Khan Afridi, better known as Shahid Afridi or Boom Boom Afridi, is a Pakistani T20 cricketer and former Test and ODI cricketer. He is currently the captain of Pakistan T20 cricket team. Wikipedia

    Born: March 1, 1980 (age 35), Khyber Agency, Pakistan

    Height: 6′ 0″

    Spouse: Nadia Afridi

    Parents: Sahabzada Fazal-ur-Rehman Afridi

    Children: Aqsa Afridi, Ajwa Afridi, Asmara Afridi, Ansha Afridi

    Current teams: Karachi Dolphins, Pakistan national cricket team (#10 / All-rounder)

    Read More
    • Replies: @bondo
    have you talked to the national security state about your dental hygienist?

    also mention cricket players especially the ones in black shorts and tees

    does he/she wear black commando clothing while chiseling your teeth and gums?
    , @Ronald Thomas West
    Hey Robin, I just saw this, your 'bitch slap' complaint hardly entitles you to the high ground now, does it? Hypocrite.
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  146. RobinG says:
    @alexander
    I checked the link...

    interesting.

    There was a pic of one of the perps (female ?) lying face down in full body armor adjacent to a pool of blood (but not over it).......She had handcuffs on.

    Did you see that one ?

    Is that standard operating procedure... to handcuff the dead ?

    It might be...... I don't know.

    Perhaps in the event that they might not be dead...it is not an unwise idea.

    The other option....that she was handcuffed first... then shot "execution" style.... seems a bit too crass.



    The other point you mention...that "the NYPD has an office in Israel."...is really quite" bizarre", especially if you substitute" Israel" with any other country...like

    the NYPD has an office in ........Slovakia ?
    or
    The NYPD has an office in ...Namibia ?
    or
    the NYPD has an office in ...Austria ?

    Do New Yorkers take a " vote" on where their police departments "foreign office " should be located ?..

    or whether their police department should have a "foreign office" in the first place?

    Does anyone know how that works?

    Only the latest report-

    “How could this be in the civilian government of Chicago? In part, because Police Superintendent McCarthy and the City of Chicago sought out and received training by Israeli occupation forces in “counter-terrorism” policing, that is, “pacifying” a population through aggressive intelligence gathering and the application of military force. Counter-insurgency is the term used for when this doctrine is applied by military forces.”

    https://consortiumnews.com/2015/12/11/chicago-police-adopt-israeli-tactics/

    Chicago Police Adopt Israeli Tactics
    December 11, 2015

    Read More
    • Replies: @alexander
    Hmmm


    That's interesting .

    Is that a decision made by the people of Chicago ?
    Is there some sort of city board that votes on this ?
    Is it the Mayor who decides where the CPD gets it counter-terrorism training ?

    Haven't we spent several trillion dollars educating our law enforcement on counter terrorism over the last 15 years ? (how much money has the taxpayer been asked to throw at this ,one trillion ? ...two trillion ?...three trillion dollars ???

    Shouldn't "we" be the best in the business by now ? I mean.... the trillion dollar "cream of the crop"...........by "now " ??

    Hmm?

    I wonder how these decisions are made and why?

    BTW Wasn't the mayor supposed to step down because of the brouhaha over some "stashed for a year"video of the shooting of that kid ? Wasn't that a pretty damning sequence of events, requiring that for the sake of the integrity of the city, the mayor step down ?

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  147. bondo says:
    @Ron Unz

    of course it would be a guess but an obviously white hand, other visible skin is fairly easy to tell from south asian or mexican or ?? at least from my experience.
     
    Well, I suppose that's possible, but do eyewitnesses really look all that carefully at the color of the hands of gunmen who are trying to kill them from a distance in the middle of a massacre? Anyway, the hand skin color of whites and South Asians probably isn't so totally different as to be obviously noticeable in all the confusion. Furthermore, since the gunmen were wearing military-style commando outfits and masks, wouldn't you expect them to wear gloves also?

    People trying to avoid getting massacred might easily get details confused, which is why I'm cautious about assigning much weight to most of the anomalous eye-witness claims, even including the varied reports of one, two, or three gunmen. But a very short woman wielding some huge assault-weapon might be a little more likely for people to notice.

    None of this would imply any sort of "false-flag," just that the wife may not have been one of the attackers and the authorities would prefer to claim she was so that they were justified in shooting her and also that the case is now all wrapped up...

    probably not.

    but

    muscular, in military commando clothing and weapons says spec ops contractors or israelis

    not the other this and that maybes

    too many of these incidents similar so always assume false flag until Jesus says govt innocent

    the hebdo attack had 2(?) similar individuals fleeing never found or even very much mentioned

    Read More
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  148. alexander says:
    @RobinG
    Only the latest report-

    "How could this be in the civilian government of Chicago? In part, because Police Superintendent McCarthy and the City of Chicago sought out and received training by Israeli occupation forces in “counter-terrorism” policing, that is, “pacifying” a population through aggressive intelligence gathering and the application of military force. Counter-insurgency is the term used for when this doctrine is applied by military forces."

    https://consortiumnews.com/2015/12/11/chicago-police-adopt-israeli-tactics/
    Chicago Police Adopt Israeli Tactics
    December 11, 2015

    Hmmm

    That’s interesting .

    Is that a decision made by the people of Chicago ?
    Is there some sort of city board that votes on this ?
    Is it the Mayor who decides where the CPD gets it counter-terrorism training ?

    Haven’t we spent several trillion dollars educating our law enforcement on counter terrorism over the last 15 years ? (how much money has the taxpayer been asked to throw at this ,one trillion ? …two trillion ?…three trillion dollars ???

    Shouldn’t “we” be the best in the business by now ? I mean…. the trillion dollar “cream of the crop”………..by “now ” ??

    Hmm?

    I wonder how these decisions are made and why?

    BTW Wasn’t the mayor supposed to step down because of the brouhaha over some “stashed for a year”video of the shooting of that kid ? Wasn’t that a pretty damning sequence of events, requiring that for the sake of the integrity of the city, the mayor step down ?

    Read More
    • Replies: @RobinG
    "Is that a decision made by the people of Chicago ?"
    You're being funny, of course.

    "I wonder how these decisions are made and why?"
    Another bonus from 911. It's huge since then, but who knows when it started. The Israeli's are tops in suppression, after all.

    I'm surprised you haven't known about this. There was a lot of talk around the time of 'Occupy'.
    http://exiledonline.com/max-blumenthal-how-israeli-occupation-forces-bahraini-monarchy-guards-trained-u-s-police-for-coordinated-crackdown-on-occupy-protests/


    2001 cited here. It's mostly tax-payer funded, but---
    http://www.allgov.com/news/us-and-the-world/jewish-groups-pay-to-send-us-police-to-train-in-israel?news=854302
    "Monies provided by such groups as the Anti-Defamation League, the American Jewish Committee’s Project Interchange and the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs have made it possible for “at least 300 high-ranking sheriffs and police from agencies large and small – from New York and Maine to Orange County and Oakland, California” to attend privately funded seminars in Israel since the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, Winston discovered."
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  149. bondo says:
    @RobinG
    "I haven’t seen any South Asian (yet) that was tall and athletic build by the western standards"

    Sheesh...bizarre and ignorant generalization, as well as irrelevant. There are plenty of tall, muscular Indians and Pakistanis in the US. Maybe not your stereotype. Besides cricket players, etc., there's my dental hygienist.




    Image result for shahid afridi





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    More images



    Shahid Afridi
    Cricketer




    Sahibzada Mohammad Shahid Khan Afridi, better known as Shahid Afridi or Boom Boom Afridi, is a Pakistani T20 cricketer and former Test and ODI cricketer. He is currently the captain of Pakistan T20 cricket team. Wikipedia





    Born: March 1, 1980 (age 35), Khyber Agency, Pakistan



    Height: 6′ 0″



    Spouse: Nadia Afridi



    Parents: Sahabzada Fazal-ur-Rehman Afridi



    Children: Aqsa Afridi, Ajwa Afridi, Asmara Afridi, Ansha Afridi



    Current teams: Karachi Dolphins, Pakistan national cricket team (#10 / All-rounder)

    have you talked to the national security state about your dental hygienist?

    also mention cricket players especially the ones in black shorts and tees

    does he/she wear black commando clothing while chiseling your teeth and gums?

    Read More
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  150. RobinG says:
    @alexander
    Hmmm


    That's interesting .

    Is that a decision made by the people of Chicago ?
    Is there some sort of city board that votes on this ?
    Is it the Mayor who decides where the CPD gets it counter-terrorism training ?

    Haven't we spent several trillion dollars educating our law enforcement on counter terrorism over the last 15 years ? (how much money has the taxpayer been asked to throw at this ,one trillion ? ...two trillion ?...three trillion dollars ???

    Shouldn't "we" be the best in the business by now ? I mean.... the trillion dollar "cream of the crop"...........by "now " ??

    Hmm?

    I wonder how these decisions are made and why?

    BTW Wasn't the mayor supposed to step down because of the brouhaha over some "stashed for a year"video of the shooting of that kid ? Wasn't that a pretty damning sequence of events, requiring that for the sake of the integrity of the city, the mayor step down ?

    “Is that a decision made by the people of Chicago ?”
    You’re being funny, of course.

    “I wonder how these decisions are made and why?”
    Another bonus from 911. It’s huge since then, but who knows when it started. The Israeli’s are tops in suppression, after all.

    I’m surprised you haven’t known about this. There was a lot of talk around the time of ‘Occupy’.

    http://exiledonline.com/max-blumenthal-how-israeli-occupation-forces-bahraini-monarchy-guards-trained-u-s-police-for-coordinated-crackdown-on-occupy-protests/

    2001 cited here. It’s mostly tax-payer funded, but—

    http://www.allgov.com/news/us-and-the-world/jewish-groups-pay-to-send-us-police-to-train-in-israel?news=854302

    “Monies provided by such groups as the Anti-Defamation League, the American Jewish Committee’s Project Interchange and the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs have made it possible for “at least 300 high-ranking sheriffs and police from agencies large and small – from New York and Maine to Orange County and Oakland, California” to attend privately funded seminars in Israel since the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, Winston discovered.”

    Read More
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  151. @RobinG
    Not convinced, and RTW this (we would have thought) is beneath you. Apparently not.

    First, what this man says, or my question about it, is not related to what I think. Your assumptions have no basis. I've given no opinion on Bernardino, and have certainly not endorsed the official story. I'm careful what I say. Unfortunately, many are not good readers.

    Second, he makes no claim as to whether it's true or not. (Too bad if you can't understand his African accent. Listen again.) He just says that his neighbor was quiet, no problem, so he can't believe it. This is normal reaction and is not proof of anything, one way or the other. The gunmen were masked. This guy was probably stressed if he was being shot at, or watching or hearing a shooting. (Not clear if he was in the room. He could have that 2nd hand.) For this and other reasons, eyewitnesses are notoriously unreliable.

    You clearly want there to be a 3rd witness who definitively says "it wasn't him" so you hear what you want to in this tape. Sorry, no cigar. Of course, there's no way you'll back down now, right? Keep calling me stupid. Revusky has me turned on to this bitch-slapping.

    But Ron Unz is on to something. Seems there were several people who saw the gunmen from a window before the shooting. Seems like they were calm and laughing.

    Well Robin, I suspect your interpretations can be as subjective as my own (note I didn’t say ‘anyone’s’)

    I bet you disapprove of police profiling as an affront to civil liberties. Without saying I approve of those measures, I will note they not only frequently snare innocents, but it is done because it also often works. People are also caught red-handed who might have otherwise not been caught.

    Intelligence analysts profile everyday. They profile events and strings of events.

    Aurora: Eye-witness account of a person positioned in the theater to open a side door to a shooter. Never investigated and quickly dropped from the news.

    Navy Yard: A SWAT team happened to be almost on top of the scene when the shooting broke out; they were ready to respond on location in the 1st critical minutes but instead were ordered to stand down and depart the area while the shootings proceeded. Initial reports of multiple shooters were quickly dropped (but the SWAT team story refused to die that easily, the team wouldn’t shut up and ‘play’, an ‘investigation’ was launched and the story died with the media’s short attention span)

    San Bernardino: Eye witness accounts that don’t line up with the ‘case closed’ dead shooters. Now, here’s another problem with ‘San Berdoo’ (local parlance, I attended college not far away), instead of the ‘perpetrators’ home being hermetically sealed away from the public for a detailed forensic exam, it’s opened to media as though it were a stage in a high school thespian act.

    Your turn -

    Read More
    • Replies: @RobinG
    No need. You conceded the point when you changed the subject.

    (To anyone else, FYI, the 'point' was a very narrow one about this particular video.)
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  152. @RobinG
    "I haven’t seen any South Asian (yet) that was tall and athletic build by the western standards"

    Sheesh...bizarre and ignorant generalization, as well as irrelevant. There are plenty of tall, muscular Indians and Pakistanis in the US. Maybe not your stereotype. Besides cricket players, etc., there's my dental hygienist.




    Image result for shahid afridi





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    Shahid Afridi
    Cricketer




    Sahibzada Mohammad Shahid Khan Afridi, better known as Shahid Afridi or Boom Boom Afridi, is a Pakistani T20 cricketer and former Test and ODI cricketer. He is currently the captain of Pakistan T20 cricket team. Wikipedia





    Born: March 1, 1980 (age 35), Khyber Agency, Pakistan



    Height: 6′ 0″



    Spouse: Nadia Afridi



    Parents: Sahabzada Fazal-ur-Rehman Afridi



    Children: Aqsa Afridi, Ajwa Afridi, Asmara Afridi, Ansha Afridi



    Current teams: Karachi Dolphins, Pakistan national cricket team (#10 / All-rounder)

    Hey Robin, I just saw this, your ‘bitch slap’ complaint hardly entitles you to the high ground now, does it? Hypocrite.

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  153. RobinG says:
    @Ronald Thomas West
    Well Robin, I suspect your interpretations can be as subjective as my own (note I didn't say 'anyone's')

    I bet you disapprove of police profiling as an affront to civil liberties. Without saying I approve of those measures, I will note they not only frequently snare innocents, but it is done because it also often works. People are also caught red-handed who might have otherwise not been caught.

    Intelligence analysts profile everyday. They profile events and strings of events.

    Aurora: Eye-witness account of a person positioned in the theater to open a side door to a shooter. Never investigated and quickly dropped from the news.

    Navy Yard: A SWAT team happened to be almost on top of the scene when the shooting broke out; they were ready to respond on location in the 1st critical minutes but instead were ordered to stand down and depart the area while the shootings proceeded. Initial reports of multiple shooters were quickly dropped (but the SWAT team story refused to die that easily, the team wouldn't shut up and 'play', an 'investigation' was launched and the story died with the media's short attention span)

    San Bernardino: Eye witness accounts that don't line up with the 'case closed' dead shooters. Now, here's another problem with 'San Berdoo' (local parlance, I attended college not far away), instead of the 'perpetrators' home being hermetically sealed away from the public for a detailed forensic exam, it's opened to media as though it were a stage in a high school thespian act.

    Your turn -

    No need. You conceded the point when you changed the subject.

    (To anyone else, FYI, the ‘point’ was a very narrow one about this particular video.)

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    • Replies: @Ronald Thomas West
    Ok, so you ceded your turn. Now, as to your suggesting the African was stressed witnessing a shooting:

    For this and other reasons, eyewitnesses are notoriously unreliable.
     
    I understood what the African was saying. You've inserted a presumption it could have been a 2nd hand account he was relating, but there is nothing to suggest that. And, your suggesting this 'possible' eye witness account is likely unreliable in the same conversation is like having your cake and eating it too.

    Eye witnesses are not necessarily "nortoriously unreliable." I can recall the five occasions I've been shot at and everyone of them is like a 'kodak moment' (it's been a 'career choice' result.) Different people react differently according to their personality makeup. The African was cogent and articulate and his context of conversation indicates he was describing precisely what he saw.

    What are your 'other' reasons eye witnesses could possibly be unreliable? I'll suggest one: coaching. Another would be telling the authorities what they want to hear (fear of telling the truth at odds with the narrative you're confronted with.) Neither of these of these would appear to match what 'the African' is saying.
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  154. Ron Unz says:
    @RobinG
    Not convinced, and RTW this (we would have thought) is beneath you. Apparently not.

    First, what this man says, or my question about it, is not related to what I think. Your assumptions have no basis. I've given no opinion on Bernardino, and have certainly not endorsed the official story. I'm careful what I say. Unfortunately, many are not good readers.

    Second, he makes no claim as to whether it's true or not. (Too bad if you can't understand his African accent. Listen again.) He just says that his neighbor was quiet, no problem, so he can't believe it. This is normal reaction and is not proof of anything, one way or the other. The gunmen were masked. This guy was probably stressed if he was being shot at, or watching or hearing a shooting. (Not clear if he was in the room. He could have that 2nd hand.) For this and other reasons, eyewitnesses are notoriously unreliable.

    You clearly want there to be a 3rd witness who definitively says "it wasn't him" so you hear what you want to in this tape. Sorry, no cigar. Of course, there's no way you'll back down now, right? Keep calling me stupid. Revusky has me turned on to this bitch-slapping.

    But Ron Unz is on to something. Seems there were several people who saw the gunmen from a window before the shooting. Seems like they were calm and laughing.

    Seems there were several people who saw the gunmen from a window before the shooting. Seems like they were calm and laughing.

    That’s interesting. Witnesses like that, before the shooting started and who weren’t running for their lives, are probably much more likely to get details correct.

    It’s interesting that the husband was 6’0″ and (someone said) the wife was 5’3″. If, as alleged, they were the two masked gunmen and standing close to each other, I’d think the witnesses might have noticed and remembered the *huge* difference in height. Also, the witnesses all thought both attackers were men, and while a woman who’s 5’3″ is pretty short, a man that height is nearly a midget. Wouldn’t some of the witnesses mentioned that one of the attacking commando gunmen was a midget?

    Add in the factor of her six-month-old infant, and I’m really starting to doubt the wife was one of the original commando-terrorists…

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    • Replies: @Ronald Thomas West
    I also somehow doubt either (or one of the possible 3) shooters ran home or elsewhere to pick up pick his wife after the shootings or left the mother of his six month old in the car (as she patiently waited while her husband took out his assault rifle and went in to kill? I don't think so) when this event went down. Her being present in any purported circumstance seems an awkward piece of any narrative; if she wasn't a shooter, and certainly it seems she was not, how is it she was present at all, i.e. when they were killed by police in their SUV?

    Good to know the alleged shooter was 6 feet. I've yet to meet Robin's buff cricket player in the several Pakistanis I've known, nor observed it in their relatives and associates.
    , @RobinG
    Yes, assuming any of this is true. You may be following this closer than I am. (I missed the 5'3".) By this time, any true witnesses may be (?) subject to a gag order of some kind.

    In the story I read, I think it was the woman (Arabic sounding name) who said "they" (she and her co-worker(s)) saw the gunmen outside the building. They thought nothing of it b/c of the routine (monthly?) drills. But then they noticed the black clothing and weapons, and somebody 'joked' that they were looking serious this time. (Something like that.)

    Some folks here have made hysterical assertions about any perceived inconsistency, and a whole range of things they find incredible, but I've seen nothing out of the ordinary about an evolving investigation. The press has been awful. At first they "found an arsenal of over 500 weapons in the home" but that came down to 5 or 10 pipes that "could be made into pipe-bombs". (I just added the "or 10" lest I be called an idiot, again. LOL.)
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  155. @RobinG
    No need. You conceded the point when you changed the subject.

    (To anyone else, FYI, the 'point' was a very narrow one about this particular video.)

    Ok, so you ceded your turn. Now, as to your suggesting the African was stressed witnessing a shooting:

    For this and other reasons, eyewitnesses are notoriously unreliable.

    I understood what the African was saying. You’ve inserted a presumption it could have been a 2nd hand account he was relating, but there is nothing to suggest that. And, your suggesting this ‘possible’ eye witness account is likely unreliable in the same conversation is like having your cake and eating it too.

    Eye witnesses are not necessarily “nortoriously unreliable.” I can recall the five occasions I’ve been shot at and everyone of them is like a ‘kodak moment’ (it’s been a ‘career choice’ result.) Different people react differently according to their personality makeup. The African was cogent and articulate and his context of conversation indicates he was describing precisely what he saw.

    What are your ‘other’ reasons eye witnesses could possibly be unreliable? I’ll suggest one: coaching. Another would be telling the authorities what they want to hear (fear of telling the truth at odds with the narrative you’re confronted with.) Neither of these of these would appear to match what ‘the African’ is saying.

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  156. @Ron Unz

    Seems there were several people who saw the gunmen from a window before the shooting. Seems like they were calm and laughing.
     
    That's interesting. Witnesses like that, before the shooting started and who weren't running for their lives, are probably much more likely to get details correct.

    It's interesting that the husband was 6'0" and (someone said) the wife was 5'3". If, as alleged, they were the two masked gunmen and standing close to each other, I'd think the witnesses might have noticed and remembered the *huge* difference in height. Also, the witnesses all thought both attackers were men, and while a woman who's 5'3" is pretty short, a man that height is nearly a midget. Wouldn't some of the witnesses mentioned that one of the attacking commando gunmen was a midget?

    Add in the factor of her six-month-old infant, and I'm really starting to doubt the wife was one of the original commando-terrorists...

    I also somehow doubt either (or one of the possible 3) shooters ran home or elsewhere to pick up pick his wife after the shootings or left the mother of his six month old in the car (as she patiently waited while her husband took out his assault rifle and went in to kill? I don’t think so) when this event went down. Her being present in any purported circumstance seems an awkward piece of any narrative; if she wasn’t a shooter, and certainly it seems she was not, how is it she was present at all, i.e. when they were killed by police in their SUV?

    Good to know the alleged shooter was 6 feet. I’ve yet to meet Robin’s buff cricket player in the several Pakistanis I’ve known, nor observed it in their relatives and associates.

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  157. RobinG says:
    @Ron Unz

    Seems there were several people who saw the gunmen from a window before the shooting. Seems like they were calm and laughing.
     
    That's interesting. Witnesses like that, before the shooting started and who weren't running for their lives, are probably much more likely to get details correct.

    It's interesting that the husband was 6'0" and (someone said) the wife was 5'3". If, as alleged, they were the two masked gunmen and standing close to each other, I'd think the witnesses might have noticed and remembered the *huge* difference in height. Also, the witnesses all thought both attackers were men, and while a woman who's 5'3" is pretty short, a man that height is nearly a midget. Wouldn't some of the witnesses mentioned that one of the attacking commando gunmen was a midget?

    Add in the factor of her six-month-old infant, and I'm really starting to doubt the wife was one of the original commando-terrorists...

    Yes, assuming any of this is true. You may be following this closer than I am. (I missed the 5’3″.) By this time, any true witnesses may be (?) subject to a gag order of some kind.

    In the story I read, I think it was the woman (Arabic sounding name) who said “they” (she and her co-worker(s)) saw the gunmen outside the building. They thought nothing of it b/c of the routine (monthly?) drills. But then they noticed the black clothing and weapons, and somebody ‘joked’ that they were looking serious this time. (Something like that.)

    Some folks here have made hysterical assertions about any perceived inconsistency, and a whole range of things they find incredible, but I’ve seen nothing out of the ordinary about an evolving investigation. The press has been awful. At first they “found an arsenal of over 500 weapons in the home” but that came down to 5 or 10 pipes that “could be made into pipe-bombs”. (I just added the “or 10″ lest I be called an idiot, again. LOL.)

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  158. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Alexander Dewdney is a Canadian mathematician and computer scientist and Professor Emeritus at the University of Western Ontario. He did a series of experiments in which cell phone calls were attempted from planes and did not go through, which suggests that the alleged cell phone calls made from the hijacked planes on 9/11 were not possible. He did the experiment for a Japanese TV program in 2003 that can be viewed here:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=WJ9Lg7Zaw30#t=610

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  159. Ry says: • Website
    @Ron Unz
    I've been too busy with my own work to closely follow the details of the San Bernardino Massacre, but since so many of the commenters probably have, maybe they can clarify a few questions for me...

    Based on all the news reports, weren't all of the gunmen masked? So until the police happened to see that car behaving suspiciously and soon got into a gunfight with the occupants, weren't there zero clues about who the attackers really were?

    How much evidence is there that the wife was one of the original gunmen, rather than just some sort of accessory to her husband? Frankly, I'm not sure I've ever heard a case of the mother of a six-month-old baby going around blasting people with assault-weapons in a terrorist attack. That's not to say it's impossible, but just a little unlikely. Since she was killed with her husband in that car shootout, presumably the police would like to claim she was one of the attackers so that they could say both attackers have been caught and killed and close the case, but that doesn't mean it's true.

    Also, I think I read somewhere she was pretty short, maybe 5'3". If so, aren't assault-weapons and all those ammunition belts a little heavy for such a short woman? Supposedly, some of the massacre witnesses reported that the attackers were "whites" but since they were masked, I can't see how they could have easily distinguished them from South Asians. But on the other hand, a 5'3" woman just doesn't look that much like a "man" whether masked or not, which again raises doubts about whether she was really one of the attackers.

    Anyway, I'm curious what the commenters---who've been following these details much more closely---think about these points...

    If the attackers were wearing mask and tactical gear most people just assume they are male.

    As for the LAPD coveting got themselves that’s plausible. It’s hard to tell in the Internet age but assuming it was real I saw a picture of the SUV with all the windows rolled up. They were broken but there was still cracked glass on the top and bottom. So how does one shoot through a rolled up window? We have seen how the cops shot up the wrong pick up truck and killed two people last year when they were chasing a fugitive.

    To me what is key is following the money. Where did they 28k come from?

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    • Replies: @anon
    Which 28k? You mean the hijackers received mystery money?
    , @Jonathan Revusky

    Where did they 28k come from?
     
    Surprisingly little money, eh?

    They'd have to pay me at least twice that to carry out a suicide operation.
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  160. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Ry
    If the attackers were wearing mask and tactical gear most people just assume they are male.

    As for the LAPD coveting got themselves that's plausible. It's hard to tell in the Internet age but assuming it was real I saw a picture of the SUV with all the windows rolled up. They were broken but there was still cracked glass on the top and bottom. So how does one shoot through a rolled up window? We have seen how the cops shot up the wrong pick up truck and killed two people last year when they were chasing a fugitive.

    To me what is key is following the money. Where did they 28k come from?

    Which 28k? You mean the hijackers received mystery money?

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  161. @Ry
    If the attackers were wearing mask and tactical gear most people just assume they are male.

    As for the LAPD coveting got themselves that's plausible. It's hard to tell in the Internet age but assuming it was real I saw a picture of the SUV with all the windows rolled up. They were broken but there was still cracked glass on the top and bottom. So how does one shoot through a rolled up window? We have seen how the cops shot up the wrong pick up truck and killed two people last year when they were chasing a fugitive.

    To me what is key is following the money. Where did they 28k come from?

    Where did they 28k come from?

    Surprisingly little money, eh?

    They’d have to pay me at least twice that to carry out a suicide operation.

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    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    "Surprisingly little money, eh?

    They’d have to pay me at least twice that to carry out a suicide operation."

    You'd probably want to demand a good medical plan too, and a generaous allowance of vacation time.
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  162. @Ron Unz
    I've been too busy with my own work to closely follow the details of the San Bernardino Massacre, but since so many of the commenters probably have, maybe they can clarify a few questions for me...

    Based on all the news reports, weren't all of the gunmen masked? So until the police happened to see that car behaving suspiciously and soon got into a gunfight with the occupants, weren't there zero clues about who the attackers really were?

    How much evidence is there that the wife was one of the original gunmen, rather than just some sort of accessory to her husband? Frankly, I'm not sure I've ever heard a case of the mother of a six-month-old baby going around blasting people with assault-weapons in a terrorist attack. That's not to say it's impossible, but just a little unlikely. Since she was killed with her husband in that car shootout, presumably the police would like to claim she was one of the attackers so that they could say both attackers have been caught and killed and close the case, but that doesn't mean it's true.

    Also, I think I read somewhere she was pretty short, maybe 5'3". If so, aren't assault-weapons and all those ammunition belts a little heavy for such a short woman? Supposedly, some of the massacre witnesses reported that the attackers were "whites" but since they were masked, I can't see how they could have easily distinguished them from South Asians. But on the other hand, a 5'3" woman just doesn't look that much like a "man" whether masked or not, which again raises doubts about whether she was really one of the attackers.

    Anyway, I'm curious what the commenters---who've been following these details much more closely---think about these points...

    Frankly, I’m not sure I’ve ever heard a case of the mother of a six-month-old baby going around blasting people with assault-weapons in a terrorist attack.

    To tell the truth, I’m surprised that some of the reptilian hordes who infest these pages haven’t piped in with: “But don’t you know, Mr. Unz, that’s typical Muslim behavior….” “It’s in the Koran!!”

    Stuff like that…

    Anyway, it seems to me that, once you conclude that the wife had nothing to do with it, you pretty quickly conclude that the husband was framed as well. It’s true that the maternal bond with a newborn infant is extremely strong, but I hardly think the paternal bond should be discounted entirely! A father with a new wife, recently born infant, a perfectly okay job, doing something like this — it is an exceedingly bizarre narrative. He’s not somebody who has nothing to live for and would thus go out in a blaze of glory, is he? (Though I guess they used it in the JFK assassination. Lee Harvey Oswald’s second daughter with Marina was born one month before the assassination!)

    In any case, the conjunction of the live shooter drill with the event tells you it was a false flag basically. It seems to me that the reason for this is fairly obvious. You see, there are a lot of moving parts to constructing the false flag, so if something goes wrong and you have to call off the operation, but leaving all the preparations for it in plain sight, then the drill serves as ready-made explanation.

    For example, suppose the masked individuals show up, armed to the teeth and everybody sees them, but then get the notification that the operation is cancelled… well, they just go ahead with the drill. At any rate, the cover for their presence is the drill. Preparations for the event as well as evidence of foreknowledge can be explained away as preparations for the drill. If somebody slips up, then he can fall back to: “When you overheard me saying that a shooting was going to happen on such and such day and such and such place (and it then did) I was referring to the drill! I had no idea there would be a real shooting that day!”

    So the drills seem to be part of their modus operandi. Apparently they had run these drills before. I read somewhere they were running these live shooter drills monthly. You know, for all we know, they had set a prior date for doing this but had previously cancelled because something went wrong. So they rescheduled more drills in the future! And finally, after a few more dry runs, the drill went live at last!

    To me, the whole thing is very strange. The whole “live shooter” scenario is something that happens very rarely really. Why would you be drilling this every month? And then on a given day when they’re running the drill, in the given place, real shooters show up! We’re supposed to believe this is a coincidence!!??

    So these events have drills very often and invariably they have patsies. So it seems to me that if the wife was a patsy, so was the husband. Both were. Looking at narratives in which the husband is a real shooter and the wife is uninvolved strikes me as going down a blind alley.

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    • Replies: @Ron Unz

    Anyway, it seems to me that, once you conclude that the wife had nothing to do with it, you pretty quickly conclude that the husband was framed as well. It’s true that the maternal bond with a newborn infant is extremely strong, but I hardly think the paternal bond should be discounted entirely! A father with a new wife, recently born infant, a perfectly okay job, doing something like this — it is an exceedingly bizarre narrative.
     
    But I think that argument cuts both ways. Selecting the very short mother of a young infant as the "patsy" to frame as an attacking commando-terrorist seems pretty implausible, especially if the actual gunmen will be tallish males (as supposedly one of the eye-witnesses claimed). I'd assume there are many, many thousands of Muslims in the general region, and surely they could have found a less-ridiculous choice. By contrast, if she was semi-accidentally killed in that shootout, and the police rather lazily decided to close the case by blaming her, that would make more sense.

    But your other point of the value of having all these "terrorist drills" as ready-made excuses for a cancelled attack seems a pretty sensible one.
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  163. @Sam Shama

    Frankly, I’m not sure I’ve ever heard a case of the mother of a six-month-old baby going around blasting people with assault-weapons in a terrorist attack.
     
    Simple but key insight. Well planned patsies.

    Frankly, I’m not sure I’ve ever heard a case of the mother of a six-month-old baby going around blasting people with assault-weapons in a terrorist attack.

    Simple but key insight. Well planned patsies.

    Wow! What happened, Shama? Did somebody give you a special gift for Chanukah this year? I mean, like…. A BRAIN!!! It must be wonderful. I still remember when, as a child, I got my first pair of glasses and could see clearly for the first time…

    I have to say that you surprise me. (Favorably.) Here I thought you would believe anything. (Among other things, you profess to believe that our co-religionists at the Federal Reserve are working tirelessly for the common good. That’s a good one… Well, not just that, but anybody who suspects otherwise is a loopy conspiracy theorist…)

    But apparently the narrative of the young mother of a six-month-old infant going and doing this is too much even for you to swallow! (“I’ve swallowed some big ones in my day, but this one is just too big, Gunga Dinn…”). I guess when they make up a story that even Sam Shama declines to believe, they’ve really jumped the proverbial shark, eh?

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    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    http://www.unz.com/article/conspiracy-theories-and-san-bernardino/#comment-1253573 and,

    http://www.unz.com/article/conspiracy-theories-and-san-bernardino/#comment-1253686

    We can talk about the Fed on a separate occasion.

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  164. Mr. Anon says:
    @Ronald Thomas West
    3rd eye witness: "It wasn't him"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWrSdY0NWgg

    ^

    “3rd eye witness: “It wasn’t him”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWrSdY0NWgg”

    Your assertion is ridiculous. That guy did not say that he saw the shooter and it was not him (the shooter was reportedly wearing a mask anyway). He said it in the context of “I can’t believe it was him”

    There is a big difference

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  165. Mr. Anon says:
    @Jason
    Most conspiracy theories say "blah blah blah a bunch of Evil White Men really did it".

    It's past annoying at this point.

    “Most conspiracy theories say “blah blah blah a bunch of Evil White Men really did it”.

    It’s past annoying at this point.”

    I agree. The people who assert that everything is a (so-called) “false-flag” always lay the blame for it on the New World Order – the military-security-surveillance-state, the government, the wealthy power-elite, etc. And yet whose agenda is advanced by all these attacks? Whose agenda has advanced despite all these attacks? That self-same NWO. And notice how the attackers – those shadowy conspiracy operatives – are always white men. The whole false-flag narrative advances an explicity anti-white agenda, really.

    Have these false-flag guys ever stopped to consider the possibility that the false-flag narrative might be…………….a false flag? Have they ever considered the possibility that they are being unknowingly conscripted to advance the agenda of the NWO? Have they ever stopped to consider the possibility that they are the real patsies?

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    • Replies: @RobinG
    How are we to interpret your comment? You say you agree w/ Jason, then contradict yourself with the 'cui bono' and also by acknowledging the power of NWO.

    ....whose agenda is advanced by all these attacks? Whose agenda has advanced despite all these attacks? That self-same NWO.
    ....they are being unknowingly conscripted to advance the agenda of the NWO?
     
    , @Jonathan Revusky

    And notice how the attackers – those shadowy conspiracy operatives – are always white men. The whole false-flag narrative advances an explicity anti-white agenda, really.
     
    So the conspirators always (or really, usually or disproportionately) turn out to be white men. Yeah, I guess that's true. But hey, check this out Holmes! The independent researchers whom you tar as "conspiracy theorists" also tend to be disproportionately white men! What to make of that?

    So isn't it a wash then?

    Regardless, it is baffling to me that somebody would conclude that the JFK research community or the 9/11 truth community has some sort of racialist agenda. Since when does trying to get at the truth about something constitute a racialist ideology?

    Why would you think that the desire to uncover deceit, to expose liars, bring murderers to justice, has anything to do with any sort of racial thinking? Oh, the criminals are white people, so wanting to go after them anti-white racism.

    Well, if you want to feel a bunch of racial solidarity with mass murdering criminals just because their skin or hair color is more like yours, that's your business, dude. But it's a mistake to project your own obsessions on other people who don't think the way you do. Some people investigate these things because they want to know the truth.
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  166. Mr. Anon says:
    @Jonathan Revusky

    Where did they 28k come from?
     
    Surprisingly little money, eh?

    They'd have to pay me at least twice that to carry out a suicide operation.

    “Surprisingly little money, eh?

    They’d have to pay me at least twice that to carry out a suicide operation.”

    You’d probably want to demand a good medical plan too, and a generaous allowance of vacation time.

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  167. Mr. Anon says:
    @Ron Unz

    of course it would be a guess but an obviously white hand, other visible skin is fairly easy to tell from south asian or mexican or ?? at least from my experience.
     
    Well, I suppose that's possible, but do eyewitnesses really look all that carefully at the color of the hands of gunmen who are trying to kill them from a distance in the middle of a massacre? Anyway, the hand skin color of whites and South Asians probably isn't so totally different as to be obviously noticeable in all the confusion. Furthermore, since the gunmen were wearing military-style commando outfits and masks, wouldn't you expect them to wear gloves also?

    People trying to avoid getting massacred might easily get details confused, which is why I'm cautious about assigning much weight to most of the anomalous eye-witness claims, even including the varied reports of one, two, or three gunmen. But a very short woman wielding some huge assault-weapon might be a little more likely for people to notice.

    None of this would imply any sort of "false-flag," just that the wife may not have been one of the attackers and the authorities would prefer to claim she was so that they were justified in shooting her and also that the case is now all wrapped up...

    “But a very short woman wielding some huge assault-weapon might be a little more likely for people to notice.”

    AR variants are not huge. The M-4, for example, is rather dainty.

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  168. RobinG says:
    @Mr. Anon
    "Most conspiracy theories say “blah blah blah a bunch of Evil White Men really did it”.

    It’s past annoying at this point."

    I agree. The people who assert that everything is a (so-called) "false-flag" always lay the blame for it on the New World Order - the military-security-surveillance-state, the government, the wealthy power-elite, etc. And yet whose agenda is advanced by all these attacks? Whose agenda has advanced despite all these attacks? That self-same NWO. And notice how the attackers - those shadowy conspiracy operatives - are always white men. The whole false-flag narrative advances an explicity anti-white agenda, really.

    Have these false-flag guys ever stopped to consider the possibility that the false-flag narrative might be................a false flag? Have they ever considered the possibility that they are being unknowingly conscripted to advance the agenda of the NWO? Have they ever stopped to consider the possibility that they are the real patsies?

    How are we to interpret your comment? You say you agree w/ Jason, then contradict yourself with the ‘cui bono’ and also by acknowledging the power of NWO.

    ….whose agenda is advanced by all these attacks? Whose agenda has advanced despite all these attacks? That self-same NWO.
    ….they are being unknowingly conscripted to advance the agenda of the NWO?

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  169. Sam Shama says:
    @Jonathan Revusky


    Frankly, I’m not sure I’ve ever heard a case of the mother of a six-month-old baby going around blasting people with assault-weapons in a terrorist attack.
     
    Simple but key insight. Well planned patsies.
     
    Wow! What happened, Shama? Did somebody give you a special gift for Chanukah this year? I mean, like.... A BRAIN!!! It must be wonderful. I still remember when, as a child, I got my first pair of glasses and could see clearly for the first time...

    I have to say that you surprise me. (Favorably.) Here I thought you would believe anything. (Among other things, you profess to believe that our co-religionists at the Federal Reserve are working tirelessly for the common good. That's a good one... Well, not just that, but anybody who suspects otherwise is a loopy conspiracy theorist...)

    But apparently the narrative of the young mother of a six-month-old infant going and doing this is too much even for you to swallow! ("I've swallowed some big ones in my day, but this one is just too big, Gunga Dinn..."). I guess when they make up a story that even Sam Shama declines to believe, they've really jumped the proverbial shark, eh?

    Read More
    • Replies: @RobinG
    *#!!*#* computer---- I just lost my typically terse comment & time is short.......so---

    Please don't despair. We need to pull together.

    Phil is in Moscow (with Mike Flynn and others). Hope he comes back with a vision -- and marching orders. Not his style, perhaps. Nevertheless.
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  170. @Sam Shama
    Hi geo

    Kaufman is a mensch, someone to emulate. People like him are few and far between.

    What can I say, it seems that the world around us is all too cynical, steeped in calculated, immoral malevolence and the cycle seems endless. I am sorry if I sound somewhat despondent, but that is what I perceive all around. Here at the UR e.g., there are many deeply committed moral and intelligent individuals, many deeply committed bigots [who call themselves racialists] and many deeply committed idiots who know very little. In other words a small microcosm of the world at large, and I am afraid I might fall in the last category. After I wrote the last comment in this article, I had rather quite a conversation with a friend I had not seen in years, someone I respect highly. He showed me material that left me shocked beyond anything I thought possible.

    I think we are mobilising for war and ground troops in Syria within the next year, and at this point the probabilities do not favour otherwise.

    Look I don't know if I will have the testicular resolve to write all in an open thread, but I think I owe an apology to Jonathan Revusky and Rurik.....

    Hi Sam. You say…

    I think we are mobilising for war and ground troops in Syria within the next year, and at this point the probabilities do not favour otherwise

    I wonder if you’d seen this:

    The US is to send some 10,000 troops to Iraq to provide support for a 90,000-strong force from the Gulf states, a leading Iraqi opposition MP has warned. The politician said the plan was announced to the Iraqi government during a visit by US Senator John McCain.

    During a meeting in Baghdad on November 27, McCain told Prime Minister Haider Abadi and a number of senior Iraqi cabinet and military officials that the decision was ‘non-negotiable’, claimed Hanan Fatlawi, the head of the opposition Irada Movement.

    https://www.rt.com/news/325477-arab-army-iraq-plan/

    Of course if the pretext is taking on ISIS, any presumed deployment isn’t going to be limited to Iraq. Or perhaps the plan is Turkey’s military will take Syria? In any case, Putin has been making some interesting statements along the lines of “any threat” to Russian forces must be destroyed (in the Syria context) and meanwhile has noted the cruise missiles recently employed in Syria are nuclear warhead capable (recalling Russian military doctrine defaults to tactical nuclear weapons in a case of faced with overwhelming battlefield odds, either technical or numerical.)

    It doesn’t hurt to note where John McCain visits to make threats, it’s not necessarily just a blow-hard’s nonsense when recalling Kiev’s Maidan; as well others media seems to back the RT article’s & Iraqi MP’s claims:

    Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) said Sunday that “there’s a 9/11 coming” after the Paris terror attacks and called for 10,000 American troops on the ground in Iraq and Syria to help fight the Islamic State

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/lindsey-graham-911-isis-paris-attacks_5648a37ee4b08cda3489353b

    Of course it’s no secret Obama has been in bed with the neo-cons on some issues all along. You could well be right. There’s more, lots more, out the in the world of open source; pointing in the direction you indicate, but fate has a mind of its own time to time… we’ll see how it plays out.

    On another note, seems you’ve been all over the map on character recently; the ‘enemy of my enemy is my friend’ can be quicksand … relating to the seeming rehabilitation of certain anti-Semitic & neo-Nazi types. Just because they may be correct on the side of technical or strategic interpretations doesn’t necessarily make for clean or trustworthy associations ; )

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    Hi Ron,

    On another note, seems you’ve been all over the map on character recently;
     
    As internet strifes and associations go, I attempt to honestly offer my apologies when I realise I was mistaken on specific matters: in this case the occurrence of psyops on U.S. soil I had steadfastedly refused to acknowledge as worth considering. The notion was simply too outlandish. I have recently changed that view [needless to say it was shocking].

    On all else I remain the same. For example, on many threads that devolve into anti-semitic or racist twaddle, on matters relating to the Fed, on geo-political history etc., I am completely capable of taking on the usual suspects, their rants, turning them on their heads to enjoy a bit of comedy. Not surprisingly, I have also concluded that most of these characters are not very clever and remain stuck in their own heads incapable of arguing positions based on data and logic, resorting instead to incessant hand-waving and gorilla dust. That becomes incredibly boring and cringe inducing. Should I feel so inclined one of these days, I will engage willfully....:-)
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  171. Sam Shama says:
    @Ronald Thomas West
    Hi Sam. You say...

    I think we are mobilising for war and ground troops in Syria within the next year, and at this point the probabilities do not favour otherwise
     
    I wonder if you'd seen this:

    The US is to send some 10,000 troops to Iraq to provide support for a 90,000-strong force from the Gulf states, a leading Iraqi opposition MP has warned. The politician said the plan was announced to the Iraqi government during a visit by US Senator John McCain.

    During a meeting in Baghdad on November 27, McCain told Prime Minister Haider Abadi and a number of senior Iraqi cabinet and military officials that the decision was ‘non-negotiable’, claimed Hanan Fatlawi, the head of the opposition Irada Movement.

    https://www.rt.com/news/325477-arab-army-iraq-plan/
     

    Of course if the pretext is taking on ISIS, any presumed deployment isn't going to be limited to Iraq. Or perhaps the plan is Turkey's military will take Syria? In any case, Putin has been making some interesting statements along the lines of "any threat" to Russian forces must be destroyed (in the Syria context) and meanwhile has noted the cruise missiles recently employed in Syria are nuclear warhead capable (recalling Russian military doctrine defaults to tactical nuclear weapons in a case of faced with overwhelming battlefield odds, either technical or numerical.)

    It doesn't hurt to note where John McCain visits to make threats, it's not necessarily just a blow-hard's nonsense when recalling Kiev's Maidan; as well others media seems to back the RT article's & Iraqi MP's claims:


    Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) said Sunday that "there's a 9/11 coming" after the Paris terror attacks and called for 10,000 American troops on the ground in Iraq and Syria to help fight the Islamic State

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/lindsey-graham-911-isis-paris-attacks_5648a37ee4b08cda3489353b
     

    Of course it's no secret Obama has been in bed with the neo-cons on some issues all along. You could well be right. There's more, lots more, out the in the world of open source; pointing in the direction you indicate, but fate has a mind of its own time to time... we'll see how it plays out.

    On another note, seems you've been all over the map on character recently; the 'enemy of my enemy is my friend' can be quicksand ... relating to the seeming rehabilitation of certain anti-Semitic & neo-Nazi types. Just because they may be correct on the side of technical or strategic interpretations doesn't necessarily make for clean or trustworthy associations ; )

    Hi Ron,

    On another note, seems you’ve been all over the map on character recently;

    As internet strifes and associations go, I attempt to honestly offer my apologies when I realise I was mistaken on specific matters: in this case the occurrence of psyops on U.S. soil I had steadfastedly refused to acknowledge as worth considering. The notion was simply too outlandish. I have recently changed that view [needless to say it was shocking].

    On all else I remain the same. For example, on many threads that devolve into anti-semitic or racist twaddle, on matters relating to the Fed, on geo-political history etc., I am completely capable of taking on the usual suspects, their rants, turning them on their heads to enjoy a bit of comedy. Not surprisingly, I have also concluded that most of these characters are not very clever and remain stuck in their own heads incapable of arguing positions based on data and logic, resorting instead to incessant hand-waving and gorilla dust. That becomes incredibly boring and cringe inducing. Should I feel so inclined one of these days, I will engage willfully….:-)

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ronald Thomas West

    in this case the occurrence of psyops on U.S. soil I had steadfastedly refused to acknowledge as worth considering. The notion was simply too outlandish
     
    The crazy (criminal) shit is embedded at the Pentagon (and NATO headquarters in Brussels), not only CIA & NSA.

    Here's a flashback:

    http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/another-runaway-general-army-deploys-psy-ops-on-u-s-senators-20110223
    , @Jonathan Revusky

    As internet strifes and associations go, I attempt to honestly offer my apologies
     
    Unlike Rurik, I did not jump to accept any proffered apology. That is not because I am going out of my way to be a dick. Really, its not. The problem is that it is hard to accept an apology if you are uncertain as to whether it is sincere. I honestly don't know.

    For starters, if you are apologizing, I do kind of need to know what it is specifically you are apologizing for. If you are apologizing simply for being wrong, then you might as well save it, since that is not worth apologizing for. We're all bound to be wrong with some frequency.

    What has bothered me about your behavior is not particularly that you are wrong per se. (Even that you are absolutely wrong about pretty much everything and anything...) It goes beyond that. It's being wrong with this level of insulting, strident obnoxiousness. And not to forget arrogance... like the belief that anybody who doesn't share your wrong-headed beliefs must be mentally ill or whatever. This is the problem, not just being wrong per se. And for me to take any apology seriously, it would mean that I really believe you are taking stock of the problem. And there are strong signs here that you are not really.

    when I realise I was mistaken on specific matters: in this case the occurrence of psyops on U.S. soil

     

    But, Sam, if your world view, your Weltanschauung, to use the fancy, erudite German term, caused you to be this mistaken -- i.e. to reject out of hand that false flag events even occurred -- then don't you have to reason that your Weltanschauung could also have induced you into plenty of other erroneous conclusions about other matters?

    Once you have had to accept that you were this absolutely wrong about this topic, then how can you still adamantly maintain that your views about these other matters are correct?

    In particular, maybe you ought to revisit some of the things drilled into your head in Synagogue Sunday School, for example, the notion that anybody who badmouths Zionists and the Zionist power structure is just mentally ill with some sort of elusive mental illness called "antisemitism".

    Look, even if I accept that the people who say that the "Joos" are the root of every problem in the world are a tad deranged, surely by the same token the people who categorically refuse to believe that powerful Jews could be to blame for anything at all are maybe just as deranged, no?

    , @geokat62

    I attempt to honestly offer my apologies when I realise I was mistaken on specific matters
     
    Sam, needless to say, it's your business to whom you wish to offer apologizes. But if you decide to offer an apology to this other character after what he has just written:

    It’s being wrong with this level of insulting, strident obnoxiousness. And not to forget arrogance… like the belief that anybody who doesn’t share your wrong-headed beliefs must be mentally ill or whatever.
     
    I will have little respect for you, as what he has written applies to himself in spades!
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  172. RobinG says:
    @Sam Shama
    http://www.unz.com/article/conspiracy-theories-and-san-bernardino/#comment-1253573 and,

    http://www.unz.com/article/conspiracy-theories-and-san-bernardino/#comment-1253686

    We can talk about the Fed on a separate occasion.

    *#!!*#* computer—- I just lost my typically terse comment & time is short…….so—

    Please don’t despair. We need to pull together.

    Phil is in Moscow (with Mike Flynn and others). Hope he comes back with a vision — and marching orders. Not his style, perhaps. Nevertheless.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jonathan Revusky

    Phil is in Moscow (with Mike Flynn and others).
     
    Philip Giraldi is in Moscow? That's interesting. What is the ostensible reason for the visit?
    , @Philip Giraldi
    Robin et al - I was indeed in Moscow speaking at a conference on the subject of whether personal privacy and national security in an age of terrorism are compatible. Julian Assange was also on my panel via tele link. I said they were as long as the government abides by very strict rules before it begins collecting information on any individual (almost certainly an impossible dream). I was also asked a lot about Turkey, which I responded to as well as I could. I will have a longer piece on Turkey here on Unz on Tuesday and will post links to the conference as I receive them.
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  173. @RobinG
    *#!!*#* computer---- I just lost my typically terse comment & time is short.......so---

    Please don't despair. We need to pull together.

    Phil is in Moscow (with Mike Flynn and others). Hope he comes back with a vision -- and marching orders. Not his style, perhaps. Nevertheless.

    Phil is in Moscow (with Mike Flynn and others).

    Philip Giraldi is in Moscow? That’s interesting. What is the ostensible reason for the visit?

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    • Replies: @RobinG
    Probably some sort of conference or forum. I've seen clips of him and Mike Flynn (a press conference or something, and part of a longer interview). I hope he'll tell us when he gets back. Ask him for a link.
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  174. RobinG says:
    @Jonathan Revusky

    Phil is in Moscow (with Mike Flynn and others).
     
    Philip Giraldi is in Moscow? That's interesting. What is the ostensible reason for the visit?

    Probably some sort of conference or forum. I’ve seen clips of him and Mike Flynn (a press conference or something, and part of a longer interview). I hope he’ll tell us when he gets back. Ask him for a link.

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  175. @Sam Shama
    Hi Ron,

    On another note, seems you’ve been all over the map on character recently;
     
    As internet strifes and associations go, I attempt to honestly offer my apologies when I realise I was mistaken on specific matters: in this case the occurrence of psyops on U.S. soil I had steadfastedly refused to acknowledge as worth considering. The notion was simply too outlandish. I have recently changed that view [needless to say it was shocking].

    On all else I remain the same. For example, on many threads that devolve into anti-semitic or racist twaddle, on matters relating to the Fed, on geo-political history etc., I am completely capable of taking on the usual suspects, their rants, turning them on their heads to enjoy a bit of comedy. Not surprisingly, I have also concluded that most of these characters are not very clever and remain stuck in their own heads incapable of arguing positions based on data and logic, resorting instead to incessant hand-waving and gorilla dust. That becomes incredibly boring and cringe inducing. Should I feel so inclined one of these days, I will engage willfully....:-)

    in this case the occurrence of psyops on U.S. soil I had steadfastedly refused to acknowledge as worth considering. The notion was simply too outlandish

    The crazy (criminal) shit is embedded at the Pentagon (and NATO headquarters in Brussels), not only CIA & NSA.

    Here’s a flashback:

    http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/another-runaway-general-army-deploys-psy-ops-on-u-s-senators-20110223

    Read More
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  176. @Mr. Anon
    "Most conspiracy theories say “blah blah blah a bunch of Evil White Men really did it”.

    It’s past annoying at this point."

    I agree. The people who assert that everything is a (so-called) "false-flag" always lay the blame for it on the New World Order - the military-security-surveillance-state, the government, the wealthy power-elite, etc. And yet whose agenda is advanced by all these attacks? Whose agenda has advanced despite all these attacks? That self-same NWO. And notice how the attackers - those shadowy conspiracy operatives - are always white men. The whole false-flag narrative advances an explicity anti-white agenda, really.

    Have these false-flag guys ever stopped to consider the possibility that the false-flag narrative might be................a false flag? Have they ever considered the possibility that they are being unknowingly conscripted to advance the agenda of the NWO? Have they ever stopped to consider the possibility that they are the real patsies?

    And notice how the attackers – those shadowy conspiracy operatives – are always white men. The whole false-flag narrative advances an explicity anti-white agenda, really.

    So the conspirators always (or really, usually or disproportionately) turn out to be white men. Yeah, I guess that’s true. But hey, check this out Holmes! The independent researchers whom you tar as “conspiracy theorists” also tend to be disproportionately white men! What to make of that?

    So isn’t it a wash then?

    Regardless, it is baffling to me that somebody would conclude that the JFK research community or the 9/11 truth community has some sort of racialist agenda. Since when does trying to get at the truth about something constitute a racialist ideology?

    Why would you think that the desire to uncover deceit, to expose liars, bring murderers to justice, has anything to do with any sort of racial thinking? Oh, the criminals are white people, so wanting to go after them anti-white racism.

    Well, if you want to feel a bunch of racial solidarity with mass murdering criminals just because their skin or hair color is more like yours, that’s your business, dude. But it’s a mistake to project your own obsessions on other people who don’t think the way you do. Some people investigate these things because they want to know the truth.

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  177. @Sam Shama
    Hi Ron,

    On another note, seems you’ve been all over the map on character recently;
     
    As internet strifes and associations go, I attempt to honestly offer my apologies when I realise I was mistaken on specific matters: in this case the occurrence of psyops on U.S. soil I had steadfastedly refused to acknowledge as worth considering. The notion was simply too outlandish. I have recently changed that view [needless to say it was shocking].

    On all else I remain the same. For example, on many threads that devolve into anti-semitic or racist twaddle, on matters relating to the Fed, on geo-political history etc., I am completely capable of taking on the usual suspects, their rants, turning them on their heads to enjoy a bit of comedy. Not surprisingly, I have also concluded that most of these characters are not very clever and remain stuck in their own heads incapable of arguing positions based on data and logic, resorting instead to incessant hand-waving and gorilla dust. That becomes incredibly boring and cringe inducing. Should I feel so inclined one of these days, I will engage willfully....:-)

    As internet strifes and associations go, I attempt to honestly offer my apologies

    Unlike Rurik, I did not jump to accept any proffered apology. That is not because I am going out of my way to be a dick. Really, its not. The problem is that it is hard to accept an apology if you are uncertain as to whether it is sincere. I honestly don’t know.

    For starters, if you are apologizing, I do kind of need to know what it is specifically you are apologizing for. If you are apologizing simply for being wrong, then you might as well save it, since that is not worth apologizing for. We’re all bound to be wrong with some frequency.

    What has bothered me about your behavior is not particularly that you are wrong per se. (Even that you are absolutely wrong about pretty much everything and anything…) It goes beyond that. It’s being wrong with this level of insulting, strident obnoxiousness. And not to forget arrogance… like the belief that anybody who doesn’t share your wrong-headed beliefs must be mentally ill or whatever. This is the problem, not just being wrong per se. And for me to take any apology seriously, it would mean that I really believe you are taking stock of the problem. And there are strong signs here that you are not really.

    when I realise I was mistaken on specific matters: in this case the occurrence of psyops on U.S. soil

    But, Sam, if your world view, your Weltanschauung, to use the fancy, erudite German term, caused you to be this mistaken — i.e. to reject out of hand that false flag events even occurred — then don’t you have to reason that your Weltanschauung could also have induced you into plenty of other erroneous conclusions about other matters?

    Once you have had to accept that you were this absolutely wrong about this topic, then how can you still adamantly maintain that your views about these other matters are correct?

    In particular, maybe you ought to revisit some of the things drilled into your head in Synagogue Sunday School, for example, the notion that anybody who badmouths Zionists and the Zionist power structure is just mentally ill with some sort of elusive mental illness called “antisemitism”.

    Look, even if I accept that the people who say that the “Joos” are the root of every problem in the world are a tad deranged, surely by the same token the people who categorically refuse to believe that powerful Jews could be to blame for anything at all are maybe just as deranged, no?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ronald Thomas West

    Look, even if I accept that the people who say that the “Joos” are the root of every problem in the world are a tad deranged, surely by the same token the people who categorically refuse to believe that powerful Jews could be to blame for anything at all are maybe just as deranged, no?
     
    I don't recall Sam ever categorically refuse[ed] to believe that powerful Jews could be to blame for anything at all .. rather Sam is closer my opinion that those wealthy, corrupt people who happen to be Jewish only make Jews equal to the rest of diverse ethnic peoples with examples of wealthy, corrupt people. You need to diversify a bit more, you'd come across as less fixated.

    Meanwhile, here's someone worth picking on, and I do believe their narcissism possibly matches your own ; )

    http://ronaldthomaswest.com/2013/05/14/the-great-bernard-henry-levy/

    , @Sam Shama
    Jonathan,

    First, your following points:


    [...] It’s being wrong with this level of insulting, strident obnoxiousness.
    ...

    In particular, maybe you ought to revisit some of the things drilled into your head in Synagogue Sunday School, for example, the notion that anybody who badmouths Zionists and the Zionist power structure is just mentally ill with some sort of elusive mental illness called “antisemitism”.
     
    have been countered by Ron and geokat respectively in comments #180 and #181. I typically strive to offer my views with all the politeness and grace I can muster, but must have failed on that rare occasion, when the antagonist himself was found utterly lacking in the very same. Nevertheless, you might draw satisfaction [or you may not] in noting that any insults I hurled at you were met by the proverbial 'spring from which riseth the eternal bile'. Anyway I offer mea culpa for what its worth. I think you have a persuasive style of writing, but blow your bloody top rather too often mate, and geokat was caught in that crossfire between you and I on more occasions than he might have cared for!

    Second, on the issue of Sunday school indoctrination, I will tell you that (a) there wasn't any to speak of, other than, you know, some mild bromides and I spent more time annoying the teacher with random bits I pulled from the Talmud etc. and ( 2) I care not a whit for the uber-Zionist claptrap, for obvious reasons. What I will tell you - and you must have noticed this yourself - that here at UR, there is a strong undercurrent of sewage that holds jewry at large, responsible for any condition that requires an explanation. We are sort of the universal exponent! I let most of this slide off my back, but react at times when it gets too awfully retarded (e.g., I remember some nitwit commenting that jewish high SAT scores are the result of jews grading(?!!!) those standardised tests.)

    But, Sam, if your world view, your Weltanschauung, to use the fancy, erudite German term, caused you to be this mistaken — i.e. to reject out of hand that false flag events even occurred — then don’t you have to reason that your Weltanschauung could also have induced you into plenty of other erroneous conclusions about other matters?

     

    Jonathan it is entirely possible that my Weltanschauung, insofar as false flags are concerned has indeed been faulty. The immediate generalisation or any transitivity for that matter does not necessarily follow. For example, I'll note tersely [and perhaps be more expansive at a later date] that under the acquisitive zeitgeist [to indulge further in fancy german] of our current times, the argument from a purely positivist-reductionist position, the role of the Federal Reserve System furthering the interests of the nation we call our own, is unassailable.

    [to be contd.]
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  178. Ron Unz says:
    @Jonathan Revusky

    Frankly, I’m not sure I’ve ever heard a case of the mother of a six-month-old baby going around blasting people with assault-weapons in a terrorist attack.
     
    To tell the truth, I'm surprised that some of the reptilian hordes who infest these pages haven't piped in with: "But don't you know, Mr. Unz, that's typical Muslim behavior...." "It's in the Koran!!"

    Stuff like that...

    Anyway, it seems to me that, once you conclude that the wife had nothing to do with it, you pretty quickly conclude that the husband was framed as well. It's true that the maternal bond with a newborn infant is extremely strong, but I hardly think the paternal bond should be discounted entirely! A father with a new wife, recently born infant, a perfectly okay job, doing something like this -- it is an exceedingly bizarre narrative. He's not somebody who has nothing to live for and would thus go out in a blaze of glory, is he? (Though I guess they used it in the JFK assassination. Lee Harvey Oswald's second daughter with Marina was born one month before the assassination!)

    In any case, the conjunction of the live shooter drill with the event tells you it was a false flag basically. It seems to me that the reason for this is fairly obvious. You see, there are a lot of moving parts to constructing the false flag, so if something goes wrong and you have to call off the operation, but leaving all the preparations for it in plain sight, then the drill serves as ready-made explanation.

    For example, suppose the masked individuals show up, armed to the teeth and everybody sees them, but then get the notification that the operation is cancelled... well, they just go ahead with the drill. At any rate, the cover for their presence is the drill. Preparations for the event as well as evidence of foreknowledge can be explained away as preparations for the drill. If somebody slips up, then he can fall back to: "When you overheard me saying that a shooting was going to happen on such and such day and such and such place (and it then did) I was referring to the drill! I had no idea there would be a real shooting that day!"

    So the drills seem to be part of their modus operandi. Apparently they had run these drills before. I read somewhere they were running these live shooter drills monthly. You know, for all we know, they had set a prior date for doing this but had previously cancelled because something went wrong. So they rescheduled more drills in the future! And finally, after a few more dry runs, the drill went live at last!

    To me, the whole thing is very strange. The whole "live shooter" scenario is something that happens very rarely really. Why would you be drilling this every month? And then on a given day when they're running the drill, in the given place, real shooters show up! We're supposed to believe this is a coincidence!!??

    So these events have drills very often and invariably they have patsies. So it seems to me that if the wife was a patsy, so was the husband. Both were. Looking at narratives in which the husband is a real shooter and the wife is uninvolved strikes me as going down a blind alley.

    Anyway, it seems to me that, once you conclude that the wife had nothing to do with it, you pretty quickly conclude that the husband was framed as well. It’s true that the maternal bond with a newborn infant is extremely strong, but I hardly think the paternal bond should be discounted entirely! A father with a new wife, recently born infant, a perfectly okay job, doing something like this — it is an exceedingly bizarre narrative.

    But I think that argument cuts both ways. Selecting the very short mother of a young infant as the “patsy” to frame as an attacking commando-terrorist seems pretty implausible, especially if the actual gunmen will be tallish males (as supposedly one of the eye-witnesses claimed). I’d assume there are many, many thousands of Muslims in the general region, and surely they could have found a less-ridiculous choice. By contrast, if she was semi-accidentally killed in that shootout, and the police rather lazily decided to close the case by blaming her, that would make more sense.

    But your other point of the value of having all these “terrorist drills” as ready-made excuses for a cancelled attack seems a pretty sensible one.

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    • Replies: @bondo
    i think there were at least 2 witnesses describing 3 muscular white men: a man with last name of hernandez and a female with an arabic surname. i have posted somewhere on unz.

    any patsy any senario can be used. doesnt matter how ridiculous, improbable, how many holes. a serious effort isnt even made

    the dominant media, the msm, the jsm (jew stream media) will push it and that is what the majority of americans will hear, read.

    any fact different will have to be found at certain sites on the internet and they will be ridiculed as conspiracy theorists.
    , @Jonathan Revusky

    But I think that argument cuts both ways. Selecting the very short mother of a young infant as the “patsy” to frame as an attacking commando-terrorist seems pretty implausible, especially if the actual gunmen will be tallish males (as supposedly one of the eye-witnesses claimed).
     
    You're right. Framing the young newlywed mother as a terrorist commando is implausible for sure. But I would make two basic points about that.

    First of all, we do seem to be at a point where the people who orchestrate these things are emboldened to the point where it doesn't matter how implausible the narrative is. They seem to have a degree of control over the mainstream media such that it doesn't seem to matter. I guess the people working in that world are so terrified of being labelled as "conspiracy theorists" (which is the death-knell of any MSM career) that they just won't point out the obvious. Thus, in the latest Paris event, we have the indestructible passports again. Or we have the Charlie Hebdo terrorists bringing their ID's to the terrorist operation and then leaving said ID's in the getaway car.

    The whole thing is ridiculous, of course. Why would you ever bring your ID to a terrorist attack in the first place? Much less leave your ID in the getaway car???? (But nobody asks these questions. Only crazy conspiracy theorists... Never mind...)

    So it never seems to matter. Pointing out that whatever story is implausible (and yes, of course it is!) would be more relevant if we really had an independent corps of journalists who could be relied upon to point out how absurd whatever story is. But we don't, right? So... there you go...

    The second point I'd make is that, yes, it is quite possible that the framing of the wife was improvisational in nature. Look, the classic case one can always refer back to is the JFK hit. You actually have a similar setup with a young couple, Lee Harvey and Marina Oswald. In the official version, Lee Harvey Oswald shot Kennedy and Marina had nothing to do with it, didn't know anything.

    Now let's imagine an alternate universe in which they are planning to frame Lee Harvey Oswald for shooting the president and the prepared story is that Marina, the young mother, had nothing to do with it. But for some reason, Marina is with Lee at a key moment and is shot, "semi-accidentally" as you say, or she witnesses something that she is not supposed to see and has to be gotten rid of. Let's say that, in this alternative time-line, both Lee and Marina Oswald are shot shortly after the JFK hit. Well, the original plan was to frame Lee and say Marina had nothing to do with it, but now, it's easy to imagine that they might improvise and come up with an alternative narrative...

    So they brainstorm and it's like.... okay, got it! Now, we say that Marina was actually the mastermind and she radicalized poor impressionable Lee Harvey! Lee met Marina in Russia and the plan was that Marina would radicalize Lee and get him to kill the president of the United States! They did it together. Lee was up there in the Texas book depositary and Marina was firing from the grassy knoll.... Something like that...

    Okay, in this alternative time-line universe, there are also these nutty conspiracy theorists. They point out that Marina had given birth to a daughter, Audrey Oswald, on 20 October, just a month before this, and do you really believe that a young woman with a newborn daughter, breastfeeding, would abandon her newborn infant and run off to kill the president of the United States? But, that's silly. You can't ascribe normal human emotions to some diabolical Russky Commie, can you now?

    Well, anyway, in short, it's possible that the plan was just to frame the husband, and then, for whatever reasons, they have now improvised and are claiming that it was a joint husband/wife operation, even floating theories where the wife was the real mover and radicalized the husband. Sure, why not?

    Maybe we'll never know the truth.... OR.... over the coming months, the independent research community (a.k.a. conspiratards) will piece together the broad outlines of what really happened and even make videos and put them up on youtube, but... to no great effect... if it's not on the TV, for most people, it doesn't exist...

    But your other point of the value of having all these “terrorist drills” as ready-made excuses for a cancelled attack seems a pretty sensible one.
     

    I think there are a variety of logistical reasons for why these events coincide with the drills and that seems like the strongest single one to me.

    Have you ever heard any "debunker" give any plausible explanation for why these events almost invariably coincide with drills? It's not just this event, you know. I'm confident that you can reject this being a coincidence at pretty much any arbitrary level of statistical significance...

    Anyway, yeah, my current bet would be that they originally intended to frame just the husband and then saying it was a husband/wife joint thing was improvisational. (Not that I know for sure...)

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  179. @RobinG
    *#!!*#* computer---- I just lost my typically terse comment & time is short.......so---

    Please don't despair. We need to pull together.

    Phil is in Moscow (with Mike Flynn and others). Hope he comes back with a vision -- and marching orders. Not his style, perhaps. Nevertheless.

    Robin et al – I was indeed in Moscow speaking at a conference on the subject of whether personal privacy and national security in an age of terrorism are compatible. Julian Assange was also on my panel via tele link. I said they were as long as the government abides by very strict rules before it begins collecting information on any individual (almost certainly an impossible dream). I was also asked a lot about Turkey, which I responded to as well as I could. I will have a longer piece on Turkey here on Unz on Tuesday and will post links to the conference as I receive them.

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    • Replies: @AnonymousCoward
    Mr. Giraldi,

    Do you have an opinion on which Mossad researchers are consistently competent?

    I am particularly curious about your opinion of Bollyn (mentioned above), and Ryan Dawson, whom Ron Unz described as being “extremely persuasive” on Mossad’s 9/11 involvement:

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/was-this-the-911-new-jersey-celebration-trump-remembered/#comment-1241200

    Do you find the work of either to be of respectable quality, Mr. Giraldi? In general, can you name a researcher whom you think is a “good” researcher on this subject, to the best of your knowledge?
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  180. @Jonathan Revusky

    As internet strifes and associations go, I attempt to honestly offer my apologies
     
    Unlike Rurik, I did not jump to accept any proffered apology. That is not because I am going out of my way to be a dick. Really, its not. The problem is that it is hard to accept an apology if you are uncertain as to whether it is sincere. I honestly don't know.

    For starters, if you are apologizing, I do kind of need to know what it is specifically you are apologizing for. If you are apologizing simply for being wrong, then you might as well save it, since that is not worth apologizing for. We're all bound to be wrong with some frequency.

    What has bothered me about your behavior is not particularly that you are wrong per se. (Even that you are absolutely wrong about pretty much everything and anything...) It goes beyond that. It's being wrong with this level of insulting, strident obnoxiousness. And not to forget arrogance... like the belief that anybody who doesn't share your wrong-headed beliefs must be mentally ill or whatever. This is the problem, not just being wrong per se. And for me to take any apology seriously, it would mean that I really believe you are taking stock of the problem. And there are strong signs here that you are not really.

    when I realise I was mistaken on specific matters: in this case the occurrence of psyops on U.S. soil

     

    But, Sam, if your world view, your Weltanschauung, to use the fancy, erudite German term, caused you to be this mistaken -- i.e. to reject out of hand that false flag events even occurred -- then don't you have to reason that your Weltanschauung could also have induced you into plenty of other erroneous conclusions about other matters?

    Once you have had to accept that you were this absolutely wrong about this topic, then how can you still adamantly maintain that your views about these other matters are correct?

    In particular, maybe you ought to revisit some of the things drilled into your head in Synagogue Sunday School, for example, the notion that anybody who badmouths Zionists and the Zionist power structure is just mentally ill with some sort of elusive mental illness called "antisemitism".

    Look, even if I accept that the people who say that the "Joos" are the root of every problem in the world are a tad deranged, surely by the same token the people who categorically refuse to believe that powerful Jews could be to blame for anything at all are maybe just as deranged, no?

    Look, even if I accept that the people who say that the “Joos” are the root of every problem in the world are a tad deranged, surely by the same token the people who categorically refuse to believe that powerful Jews could be to blame for anything at all are maybe just as deranged, no?

    I don’t recall Sam ever categorically refuse[ed] to believe that powerful Jews could be to blame for anything at all .. rather Sam is closer my opinion that those wealthy, corrupt people who happen to be Jewish only make Jews equal to the rest of diverse ethnic peoples with examples of wealthy, corrupt people. You need to diversify a bit more, you’d come across as less fixated.

    Meanwhile, here’s someone worth picking on, and I do believe their narcissism possibly matches your own ; )

    http://ronaldthomaswest.com/2013/05/14/the-great-bernard-henry-levy/

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    • Agree: Sam Shama
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  181. geokat62 says:
    @Sam Shama
    Hi Ron,

    On another note, seems you’ve been all over the map on character recently;
     
    As internet strifes and associations go, I attempt to honestly offer my apologies when I realise I was mistaken on specific matters: in this case the occurrence of psyops on U.S. soil I had steadfastedly refused to acknowledge as worth considering. The notion was simply too outlandish. I have recently changed that view [needless to say it was shocking].

    On all else I remain the same. For example, on many threads that devolve into anti-semitic or racist twaddle, on matters relating to the Fed, on geo-political history etc., I am completely capable of taking on the usual suspects, their rants, turning them on their heads to enjoy a bit of comedy. Not surprisingly, I have also concluded that most of these characters are not very clever and remain stuck in their own heads incapable of arguing positions based on data and logic, resorting instead to incessant hand-waving and gorilla dust. That becomes incredibly boring and cringe inducing. Should I feel so inclined one of these days, I will engage willfully....:-)

    I attempt to honestly offer my apologies when I realise I was mistaken on specific matters

    Sam, needless to say, it’s your business to whom you wish to offer apologizes. But if you decide to offer an apology to this other character after what he has just written:

    It’s being wrong with this level of insulting, strident obnoxiousness. And not to forget arrogance… like the belief that anybody who doesn’t share your wrong-headed beliefs must be mentally ill or whatever.

    I will have little respect for you, as what he has written applies to himself in spades!

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  182. bondo says:
    @Ron Unz

    Anyway, it seems to me that, once you conclude that the wife had nothing to do with it, you pretty quickly conclude that the husband was framed as well. It’s true that the maternal bond with a newborn infant is extremely strong, but I hardly think the paternal bond should be discounted entirely! A father with a new wife, recently born infant, a perfectly okay job, doing something like this — it is an exceedingly bizarre narrative.
     
    But I think that argument cuts both ways. Selecting the very short mother of a young infant as the "patsy" to frame as an attacking commando-terrorist seems pretty implausible, especially if the actual gunmen will be tallish males (as supposedly one of the eye-witnesses claimed). I'd assume there are many, many thousands of Muslims in the general region, and surely they could have found a less-ridiculous choice. By contrast, if she was semi-accidentally killed in that shootout, and the police rather lazily decided to close the case by blaming her, that would make more sense.

    But your other point of the value of having all these "terrorist drills" as ready-made excuses for a cancelled attack seems a pretty sensible one.

    i think there were at least 2 witnesses describing 3 muscular white men: a man with last name of hernandez and a female with an arabic surname. i have posted somewhere on unz.

    any patsy any senario can be used. doesnt matter how ridiculous, improbable, how many holes. a serious effort isnt even made

    the dominant media, the msm, the jsm (jew stream media) will push it and that is what the majority of americans will hear, read.

    any fact different will have to be found at certain sites on the internet and they will be ridiculed as conspiracy theorists.

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    • Replies: @Ron Unz

    any patsy any senario can be used. doesnt matter how ridiculous, improbable, how many holes. a serious effort isnt even made

    the dominant media, the msm, the jsm (jew stream media) will push it and that is what the majority of americans will hear, read.
     
    Well, I suppose to some extent that might be true. They could have chosen to frame a blind 78-year-old confined to a wheelchair, and half the worthless American MSM would have accepted it, given that they all agree that Bruce Jenner is now a woman. But still, if you're going to bother finding a patsy to frame, why not at least try to pick one who looks remotely like the observed attackers?...
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  183. @Philip Giraldi
    Robin et al - I was indeed in Moscow speaking at a conference on the subject of whether personal privacy and national security in an age of terrorism are compatible. Julian Assange was also on my panel via tele link. I said they were as long as the government abides by very strict rules before it begins collecting information on any individual (almost certainly an impossible dream). I was also asked a lot about Turkey, which I responded to as well as I could. I will have a longer piece on Turkey here on Unz on Tuesday and will post links to the conference as I receive them.

    Mr. Giraldi,

    Do you have an opinion on which Mossad researchers are consistently competent?

    I am particularly curious about your opinion of Bollyn (mentioned above), and Ryan Dawson, whom Ron Unz described as being “extremely persuasive” on Mossad’s 9/11 involvement:

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/was-this-the-911-new-jersey-celebration-trump-remembered/#comment-1241200

    Do you find the work of either to be of respectable quality, Mr. Giraldi? In general, can you name a researcher whom you think is a “good” researcher on this subject, to the best of your knowledge?

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  184. Ron Unz says:
    @bondo
    i think there were at least 2 witnesses describing 3 muscular white men: a man with last name of hernandez and a female with an arabic surname. i have posted somewhere on unz.

    any patsy any senario can be used. doesnt matter how ridiculous, improbable, how many holes. a serious effort isnt even made

    the dominant media, the msm, the jsm (jew stream media) will push it and that is what the majority of americans will hear, read.

    any fact different will have to be found at certain sites on the internet and they will be ridiculed as conspiracy theorists.

    any patsy any senario can be used. doesnt matter how ridiculous, improbable, how many holes. a serious effort isnt even made

    the dominant media, the msm, the jsm (jew stream media) will push it and that is what the majority of americans will hear, read.

    Well, I suppose to some extent that might be true. They could have chosen to frame a blind 78-year-old confined to a wheelchair, and half the worthless American MSM would have accepted it, given that they all agree that Bruce Jenner is now a woman. But still, if you’re going to bother finding a patsy to frame, why not at least try to pick one who looks remotely like the observed attackers?…

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    • Replies: @bondo
    i cant answer why. they know they are going to get away with it. look at 9-11. so many holes, impossibilities and apparently most of the country doesnt believe the official story but that story is still official and repeated by people who know it is BS

    the king is king and can do what he wants. even naked no one will say so. "your highness, you are so well dressed tonight"
    , @alexander
    Yes Mr Unz ,

    You are correct to that effect.

    But.....if there was no" discrepancy" between the perpetrators that were seen by eyewitnesses..... three large (ostensibly white) males...and the two who were slain, a Muslim couple......how many people would (or could) take issue with the 'official narrative" ?

    Would you ?

    I wouldn't.


    As, I suppose, Sherlock Holmes would say.....either the eyewitnesses "misread what they saw" or our government killed the wrong people...... It cannot be both.


    If you choose to believe the eyewitnesses...then something is truly amiss.

    If you choose to dismiss the eyewitnesses then everything seems fine.
    Quite clearly our government and the media have chosen to dismiss the eyewitnesses.

    So that is where we are.

    Suffice to say, that had law enforcement apprehended and killed the exact same people who were said to "have been seen "committing this crime, many who question what "actually" occurred certainly would not be doing so.

    Does that make sense ?
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  185. Sam Shama says:
    @Jonathan Revusky

    As internet strifes and associations go, I attempt to honestly offer my apologies
     
    Unlike Rurik, I did not jump to accept any proffered apology. That is not because I am going out of my way to be a dick. Really, its not. The problem is that it is hard to accept an apology if you are uncertain as to whether it is sincere. I honestly don't know.

    For starters, if you are apologizing, I do kind of need to know what it is specifically you are apologizing for. If you are apologizing simply for being wrong, then you might as well save it, since that is not worth apologizing for. We're all bound to be wrong with some frequency.

    What has bothered me about your behavior is not particularly that you are wrong per se. (Even that you are absolutely wrong about pretty much everything and anything...) It goes beyond that. It's being wrong with this level of insulting, strident obnoxiousness. And not to forget arrogance... like the belief that anybody who doesn't share your wrong-headed beliefs must be mentally ill or whatever. This is the problem, not just being wrong per se. And for me to take any apology seriously, it would mean that I really believe you are taking stock of the problem. And there are strong signs here that you are not really.

    when I realise I was mistaken on specific matters: in this case the occurrence of psyops on U.S. soil

     

    But, Sam, if your world view, your Weltanschauung, to use the fancy, erudite German term, caused you to be this mistaken -- i.e. to reject out of hand that false flag events even occurred -- then don't you have to reason that your Weltanschauung could also have induced you into plenty of other erroneous conclusions about other matters?

    Once you have had to accept that you were this absolutely wrong about this topic, then how can you still adamantly maintain that your views about these other matters are correct?

    In particular, maybe you ought to revisit some of the things drilled into your head in Synagogue Sunday School, for example, the notion that anybody who badmouths Zionists and the Zionist power structure is just mentally ill with some sort of elusive mental illness called "antisemitism".

    Look, even if I accept that the people who say that the "Joos" are the root of every problem in the world are a tad deranged, surely by the same token the people who categorically refuse to believe that powerful Jews could be to blame for anything at all are maybe just as deranged, no?

    Jonathan,

    First, your following points:

    [...] It’s being wrong with this level of insulting, strident obnoxiousness.

    In particular, maybe you ought to revisit some of the things drilled into your head in Synagogue Sunday School, for example, the notion that anybody who badmouths Zionists and the Zionist power structure is just mentally ill with some sort of elusive mental illness called “antisemitism”.

    have been countered by Ron and geokat respectively in comments #180 and #181. I typically strive to offer my views with all the politeness and grace I can muster, but must have failed on that rare occasion, when the antagonist himself was found utterly lacking in the very same. Nevertheless, you might draw satisfaction [or you may not] in noting that any insults I hurled at you were met by the proverbial ‘spring from which riseth the eternal bile’. Anyway I offer mea culpa for what its worth. I think you have a persuasive style of writing, but blow your bloody top rather too often mate, and geokat was caught in that crossfire between you and I on more occasions than he might have cared for!

    Second, on the issue of Sunday school indoctrination, I will tell you that (a) there wasn’t any to speak of, other than, you know, some mild bromides and I spent more time annoying the teacher with random bits I pulled from the Talmud etc. and ( 2) I care not a whit for the uber-Zionist claptrap, for obvious reasons. What I will tell you – and you must have noticed this yourself – that here at UR, there is a strong undercurrent of sewage that holds jewry at large, responsible for any condition that requires an explanation. We are sort of the universal exponent! I let most of this slide off my back, but react at times when it gets too awfully retarded (e.g., I remember some nitwit commenting that jewish high SAT scores are the result of jews grading(?!!!) those standardised tests.)

    But, Sam, if your world view, your Weltanschauung, to use the fancy, erudite German term, caused you to be this mistaken — i.e. to reject out of hand that false flag events even occurred — then don’t you have to reason that your Weltanschauung could also have induced you into plenty of other erroneous conclusions about other matters?

    Jonathan it is entirely possible that my Weltanschauung, insofar as false flags are concerned has indeed been faulty. The immediate generalisation or any transitivity for that matter does not necessarily follow. For example, I’ll note tersely [and perhaps be more expansive at a later date] that under the acquisitive zeitgeist [to indulge further in fancy german] of our current times, the argument from a purely positivist-reductionist position, the role of the Federal Reserve System furthering the interests of the nation we call our own, is unassailable.

    [to be contd.]

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  186. bondo says:
    @Ron Unz

    any patsy any senario can be used. doesnt matter how ridiculous, improbable, how many holes. a serious effort isnt even made

    the dominant media, the msm, the jsm (jew stream media) will push it and that is what the majority of americans will hear, read.
     
    Well, I suppose to some extent that might be true. They could have chosen to frame a blind 78-year-old confined to a wheelchair, and half the worthless American MSM would have accepted it, given that they all agree that Bruce Jenner is now a woman. But still, if you're going to bother finding a patsy to frame, why not at least try to pick one who looks remotely like the observed attackers?...

    i cant answer why. they know they are going to get away with it. look at 9-11. so many holes, impossibilities and apparently most of the country doesnt believe the official story but that story is still official and repeated by people who know it is BS

    the king is king and can do what he wants. even naked no one will say so. “your highness, you are so well dressed tonight”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ronald Thomas West
    @ 156 I inferred (and did a bad job of it apparently) to Ron if the wife was present & innocent it implied the husband was innocent as well:

    "I also somehow doubt either (or one of the possible 3) shooters ran home or elsewhere to pick up pick his wife after the shootings or left the mother of his six month old in the car (as she patiently waited while her husband took out his assault rifle and went in to kill? I don’t think so) when this event went down. Her being present in any purported circumstance seems an awkward piece of any narrative; if she wasn’t a shooter, and certainly it seems she was not, how is it she was present at all, i.e. when they were killed by police in their SUV?"

    And then, you might follow Sam Shama's experience of not wanting to believe the authority in USA would be perverted to a point of false flag murders. Recently, he states, he overcame that prejudice. The majority won't. The majority won't because they watch CNN, FOX, ABC & 'friends' who won't question the narrative and that is in addition to a visceral rejection that is normal when a habitual perception of, or inculcated reality, is threatened. The perpetrators know this. The consequent math is, the majority goes on believing and that's all that is necessary to pursue agenda of empire and justify any action taken as a result of the portrait painted for the general public.

    Insofar as the extent of the infiltration of institutions by this necrotic club, L Fletcher Prouty stated 45 years ago it was already pervasive and extended to every level of government and in his presentation (The Secret Team) he specifically noted it extended into police forces & SWAT. Who's behind it all? According to Prouty, it is large corporations liaised with CIA personalities and he makes a point to name "Monsanto." Also he points to the Pentagon and the future day (CIA liaised) special operations officers rise to position of influence over that institution. That's were we are today with JSOC.

    Prouty was the Pentagon's CIA special operations liaison officer. He was in a good position to see where it was all pointed to.
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  187. @Ron Unz

    Anyway, it seems to me that, once you conclude that the wife had nothing to do with it, you pretty quickly conclude that the husband was framed as well. It’s true that the maternal bond with a newborn infant is extremely strong, but I hardly think the paternal bond should be discounted entirely! A father with a new wife, recently born infant, a perfectly okay job, doing something like this — it is an exceedingly bizarre narrative.
     
    But I think that argument cuts both ways. Selecting the very short mother of a young infant as the "patsy" to frame as an attacking commando-terrorist seems pretty implausible, especially if the actual gunmen will be tallish males (as supposedly one of the eye-witnesses claimed). I'd assume there are many, many thousands of Muslims in the general region, and surely they could have found a less-ridiculous choice. By contrast, if she was semi-accidentally killed in that shootout, and the police rather lazily decided to close the case by blaming her, that would make more sense.

    But your other point of the value of having all these "terrorist drills" as ready-made excuses for a cancelled attack seems a pretty sensible one.

    But I think that argument cuts both ways. Selecting the very short mother of a young infant as the “patsy” to frame as an attacking commando-terrorist seems pretty implausible, especially if the actual gunmen will be tallish males (as supposedly one of the eye-witnesses claimed).

    You’re right. Framing the young newlywed mother as a terrorist commando is implausible for sure. But I would make two basic points about that.

    First of all, we do seem to be at a point where the people who orchestrate these things are emboldened to the point where it doesn’t matter how implausible the narrative is. They seem to have a degree of control over the mainstream media such that it doesn’t seem to matter. I guess the people working in that world are so terrified of being labelled as “conspiracy theorists” (which is the death-knell of any MSM career) that they just won’t point out the obvious. Thus, in the latest Paris event, we have the indestructible passports again. Or we have the Charlie Hebdo terrorists bringing their ID’s to the terrorist operation and then leaving said ID’s in the getaway car.

    The whole thing is ridiculous, of course. Why would you ever bring your ID to a terrorist attack in the first place? Much less leave your ID in the getaway car???? (But nobody asks these questions. Only crazy conspiracy theorists… Never mind…)

    So it never seems to matter. Pointing out that whatever story is implausible (and yes, of course it is!) would be more relevant if we really had an independent corps of journalists who could be relied upon to point out how absurd whatever story is. But we don’t, right? So… there you go…

    The second point I’d make is that, yes, it is quite possible that the framing of the wife was improvisational in nature. Look, the classic case one can always refer back to is the JFK hit. You actually have a similar setup with a young couple, Lee Harvey and Marina Oswald. In the official version, Lee Harvey Oswald shot Kennedy and Marina had nothing to do with it, didn’t know anything.

    Now let’s imagine an alternate universe in which they are planning to frame Lee Harvey Oswald for shooting the president and the prepared story is that Marina, the young mother, had nothing to do with it. But for some reason, Marina is with Lee at a key moment and is shot, “semi-accidentally” as you say, or she witnesses something that she is not supposed to see and has to be gotten rid of. Let’s say that, in this alternative time-line, both Lee and Marina Oswald are shot shortly after the JFK hit. Well, the original plan was to frame Lee and say Marina had nothing to do with it, but now, it’s easy to imagine that they might improvise and come up with an alternative narrative…

    So they brainstorm and it’s like…. okay, got it! Now, we say that Marina was actually the mastermind and she radicalized poor impressionable Lee Harvey! Lee met Marina in Russia and the plan was that Marina would radicalize Lee and get him to kill the president of the United States! They did it together. Lee was up there in the Texas book depositary and Marina was firing from the grassy knoll…. Something like that…

    Okay, in this alternative time-line universe, there are also these nutty conspiracy theorists. They point out that Marina had given birth to a daughter, Audrey Oswald, on 20 October, just a month before this, and do you really believe that a young woman with a newborn daughter, breastfeeding, would abandon her newborn infant and run off to kill the president of the United States? But, that’s silly. You can’t ascribe normal human emotions to some diabolical Russky Commie, can you now?

    Well, anyway, in short, it’s possible that the plan was just to frame the husband, and then, for whatever reasons, they have now improvised and are claiming that it was a joint husband/wife operation, even floating theories where the wife was the real mover and radicalized the husband. Sure, why not?

    Maybe we’ll never know the truth…. OR…. over the coming months, the independent research community (a.k.a. conspiratards) will piece together the broad outlines of what really happened and even make videos and put them up on youtube, but… to no great effect… if it’s not on the TV, for most people, it doesn’t exist…

    But your other point of the value of having all these “terrorist drills” as ready-made excuses for a cancelled attack seems a pretty sensible one.

    I think there are a variety of logistical reasons for why these events coincide with the drills and that seems like the strongest single one to me.

    Have you ever heard any “debunker” give any plausible explanation for why these events almost invariably coincide with drills? It’s not just this event, you know. I’m confident that you can reject this being a coincidence at pretty much any arbitrary level of statistical significance…

    Anyway, yeah, my current bet would be that they originally intended to frame just the husband and then saying it was a husband/wife joint thing was improvisational. (Not that I know for sure…)

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sam Shama

    Anyway, yeah, my current bet would be that they originally intended to frame just the husband and then saying it was a husband/wife joint thing was improvisational. (Not that I know for sure…)
     
    My thinking as well, one in which I failed to communicate sarcasm in the short comment in #141
    http://www.unz.com/article/conspiracy-theories-and-san-bernardino/#comment-1257133
    " Well planned patsies."
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  188. @bondo
    i cant answer why. they know they are going to get away with it. look at 9-11. so many holes, impossibilities and apparently most of the country doesnt believe the official story but that story is still official and repeated by people who know it is BS

    the king is king and can do what he wants. even naked no one will say so. "your highness, you are so well dressed tonight"

    @ 156 I inferred (and did a bad job of it apparently) to Ron if the wife was present & innocent it implied the husband was innocent as well:

    “I also somehow doubt either (or one of the possible 3) shooters ran home or elsewhere to pick up pick his wife after the shootings or left the mother of his six month old in the car (as she patiently waited while her husband took out his assault rifle and went in to kill? I don’t think so) when this event went down. Her being present in any purported circumstance seems an awkward piece of any narrative; if she wasn’t a shooter, and certainly it seems she was not, how is it she was present at all, i.e. when they were killed by police in their SUV?”

    And then, you might follow Sam Shama’s experience of not wanting to believe the authority in USA would be perverted to a point of false flag murders. Recently, he states, he overcame that prejudice. The majority won’t. The majority won’t because they watch CNN, FOX, ABC & ‘friends’ who won’t question the narrative and that is in addition to a visceral rejection that is normal when a habitual perception of, or inculcated reality, is threatened. The perpetrators know this. The consequent math is, the majority goes on believing and that’s all that is necessary to pursue agenda of empire and justify any action taken as a result of the portrait painted for the general public.

    Insofar as the extent of the infiltration of institutions by this necrotic club, L Fletcher Prouty stated 45 years ago it was already pervasive and extended to every level of government and in his presentation (The Secret Team) he specifically noted it extended into police forces & SWAT. Who’s behind it all? According to Prouty, it is large corporations liaised with CIA personalities and he makes a point to name “Monsanto.” Also he points to the Pentagon and the future day (CIA liaised) special operations officers rise to position of influence over that institution. That’s were we are today with JSOC.

    Prouty was the Pentagon’s CIA special operations liaison officer. He was in a good position to see where it was all pointed to.

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  189. alexander says:
    @Ron Unz

    any patsy any senario can be used. doesnt matter how ridiculous, improbable, how many holes. a serious effort isnt even made

    the dominant media, the msm, the jsm (jew stream media) will push it and that is what the majority of americans will hear, read.
     
    Well, I suppose to some extent that might be true. They could have chosen to frame a blind 78-year-old confined to a wheelchair, and half the worthless American MSM would have accepted it, given that they all agree that Bruce Jenner is now a woman. But still, if you're going to bother finding a patsy to frame, why not at least try to pick one who looks remotely like the observed attackers?...

    Yes Mr Unz ,

    You are correct to that effect.

    But…..if there was no” discrepancy” between the perpetrators that were seen by eyewitnesses….. three large (ostensibly white) males…and the two who were slain, a Muslim couple……how many people would (or could) take issue with the ‘official narrative” ?

    Would you ?

    I wouldn’t.

    As, I suppose, Sherlock Holmes would say…..either the eyewitnesses “misread what they saw” or our government killed the wrong people…… It cannot be both.

    If you choose to believe the eyewitnesses…then something is truly amiss.

    If you choose to dismiss the eyewitnesses then everything seems fine.
    Quite clearly our government and the media have chosen to dismiss the eyewitnesses.

    So that is where we are.

    Suffice to say, that had law enforcement apprehended and killed the exact same people who were said to “have been seen “committing this crime, many who question what “actually” occurred certainly would not be doing so.

    Does that make sense ?

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  190. Sam Shama says:
    @Jonathan Revusky

    But I think that argument cuts both ways. Selecting the very short mother of a young infant as the “patsy” to frame as an attacking commando-terrorist seems pretty implausible, especially if the actual gunmen will be tallish males (as supposedly one of the eye-witnesses claimed).
     
    You're right. Framing the young newlywed mother as a terrorist commando is implausible for sure. But I would make two basic points about that.

    First of all, we do seem to be at a point where the people who orchestrate these things are emboldened to the point where it doesn't matter how implausible the narrative is. They seem to have a degree of control over the mainstream media such that it doesn't seem to matter. I guess the people working in that world are so terrified of being labelled as "conspiracy theorists" (which is the death-knell of any MSM career) that they just won't point out the obvious. Thus, in the latest Paris event, we have the indestructible passports again. Or we have the Charlie Hebdo terrorists bringing their ID's to the terrorist operation and then leaving said ID's in the getaway car.

    The whole thing is ridiculous, of course. Why would you ever bring your ID to a terrorist attack in the first place? Much less leave your ID in the getaway car???? (But nobody asks these questions. Only crazy conspiracy theorists... Never mind...)

    So it never seems to matter. Pointing out that whatever story is implausible (and yes, of course it is!) would be more relevant if we really had an independent corps of journalists who could be relied upon to point out how absurd whatever story is. But we don't, right? So... there you go...

    The second point I'd make is that, yes, it is quite possible that the framing of the wife was improvisational in nature. Look, the classic case one can always refer back to is the JFK hit. You actually have a similar setup with a young couple, Lee Harvey and Marina Oswald. In the official version, Lee Harvey Oswald shot Kennedy and Marina had nothing to do with it, didn't know anything.

    Now let's imagine an alternate universe in which they are planning to frame Lee Harvey Oswald for shooting the president and the prepared story is that Marina, the young mother, had nothing to do with it. But for some reason, Marina is with Lee at a key moment and is shot, "semi-accidentally" as you say, or she witnesses something that she is not supposed to see and has to be gotten rid of. Let's say that, in this alternative time-line, both Lee and Marina Oswald are shot shortly after the JFK hit. Well, the original plan was to frame Lee and say Marina had nothing to do with it, but now, it's easy to imagine that they might improvise and come up with an alternative narrative...

    So they brainstorm and it's like.... okay, got it! Now, we say that Marina was actually the mastermind and she radicalized poor impressionable Lee Harvey! Lee met Marina in Russia and the plan was that Marina would radicalize Lee and get him to kill the president of the United States! They did it together. Lee was up there in the Texas book depositary and Marina was firing from the grassy knoll.... Something like that...

    Okay, in this alternative time-line universe, there are also these nutty conspiracy theorists. They point out that Marina had given birth to a daughter, Audrey Oswald, on 20 October, just a month before this, and do you really believe that a young woman with a newborn daughter, breastfeeding, would abandon her newborn infant and run off to kill the president of the United States? But, that's silly. You can't ascribe normal human emotions to some diabolical Russky Commie, can you now?

    Well, anyway, in short, it's possible that the plan was just to frame the husband, and then, for whatever reasons, they have now improvised and are claiming that it was a joint husband/wife operation, even floating theories where the wife was the real mover and radicalized the husband. Sure, why not?

    Maybe we'll never know the truth.... OR.... over the coming months, the independent research community (a.k.a. conspiratards) will piece together the broad outlines of what really happened and even make videos and put them up on youtube, but... to no great effect... if it's not on the TV, for most people, it doesn't exist...

    But your other point of the value of having all these “terrorist drills” as ready-made excuses for a cancelled attack seems a pretty sensible one.
     

    I think there are a variety of logistical reasons for why these events coincide with the drills and that seems like the strongest single one to me.

    Have you ever heard any "debunker" give any plausible explanation for why these events almost invariably coincide with drills? It's not just this event, you know. I'm confident that you can reject this being a coincidence at pretty much any arbitrary level of statistical significance...

    Anyway, yeah, my current bet would be that they originally intended to frame just the husband and then saying it was a husband/wife joint thing was improvisational. (Not that I know for sure...)

    Anyway, yeah, my current bet would be that they originally intended to frame just the husband and then saying it was a husband/wife joint thing was improvisational. (Not that I know for sure…)

    My thinking as well, one in which I failed to communicate sarcasm in the short comment in #141

    http://www.unz.com/article/conspiracy-theories-and-san-bernardino/#comment-1257133

    Well planned patsies.”

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  191. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    One wonders if perhaps this was some kind of intelligence sting operation gone bad ? it wouldn’t be the first time (wtc 93 attack and probably OKC bombing), maybe they were going to wind up the sting before the attack went live but the patsies themselves decided to change the target and bring the attacks forward because something happened at the xmas party ?.

    Anyone who has followed many of the “terror busts” knows many of them were fully infiltrated by the intelligence services, sometimes they are even headed by the intelligence infiltrators.

    Read More
    • Replies: @RobinG
    From L.K. ---

    Regarding the strategy of tension initiated by the 9-11 false flag attacks( in fact even before 9-11);

    Ted Gunderson Former FBI Chief – Most Terror Attacks Are Committed By Our CIA And FBI

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZ2VpfUqRoo

    Robert David Steele – a 20-year Marine Corps infantry and intelligence officer, the second-ranking civilian in U.S. Marine Corps Intelligence, and former CIA clandestine services case officer, had this to say about most terrorist attacks in America, @ about 15:08
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrFnFflv1Lg

    “Most terrorists are false flag terrorists or are created by our own security services.
    [***]
    In the United States, every single terrorist incident we have had has been a false flag, or has been an informant pushed on by the FBI.
    In fact, we now have citizens taking out restraining orders against FBI informants that are trying to incite terrorism. We’ve become a lunatic asylum.”

    The FBI Creates, Then “Foils” Terror Plots – False Flags Exposed By Judge Napolitano
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QynchCojTzM
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  192. RobinG says:
    @Anonymous
    One wonders if perhaps this was some kind of intelligence sting operation gone bad ? it wouldn't be the first time (wtc 93 attack and probably OKC bombing), maybe they were going to wind up the sting before the attack went live but the patsies themselves decided to change the target and bring the attacks forward because something happened at the xmas party ?.

    Anyone who has followed many of the "terror busts" knows many of them were fully infiltrated by the intelligence services, sometimes they are even headed by the intelligence infiltrators.

    From L.K. —

    Regarding the strategy of tension initiated by the 9-11 false flag attacks( in fact even before 9-11);

    Ted Gunderson Former FBI Chief – Most Terror Attacks Are Committed By Our CIA And FBI

    Robert David Steele – a 20-year Marine Corps infantry and intelligence officer, the second-ranking civilian in U.S. Marine Corps Intelligence, and former CIA clandestine services case officer, had this to say about most terrorist attacks in America, @ about 15:08

    “Most terrorists are false flag terrorists or are created by our own security services.
    [***]
    In the United States, every single terrorist incident we have had has been a false flag, or has been an informant pushed on by the FBI.
    In fact, we now have citizens taking out restraining orders against FBI informants that are trying to incite terrorism. We’ve become a lunatic asylum.”

    The FBI Creates, Then “Foils” Terror Plots – False Flags Exposed By Judge Napolitano

    Read More
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  193. KA says:

    I was hoping for further moral and ethical elucidation from media ,on the veiled unthusiasm exhibited by Republican candidates on gun ownership by terrorist legally .
    One said ” it would alert the terrorist”
    So ?
    First it will also alert the shop and the police and FBI.
    Second ,it will be difficult for th terrorist to collect and amass huge numbers of deadly weapons .
    Third it will force them to hide disappear,or leave or cease
    Fourth,FBI can zero in on all the leads that might come on the radar screen and watch the person.

    But stupidity doesn’t explain this political behaviors . Something else does .Is it corruption ? Is it the hope that bad news when it happens would propel their career upwards?

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