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The United States is abandoning its role as the global champion of human rights. Revelations that top officials are targeting people to be assassinated abroad, including American citizens, are only the most recent, disturbing proof of how far our nation’s violation of human rights has extended. This development began after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, and has been sanctioned and escalated by bipartisan executive and legislative actions, without dissent from the general public. As a result, our country can no longer speak with moral authority on these critical issues. Jimmy Carter[1]A Cruel and Unusual Record. By Jimmy Carter, June 24, 2012. New York Times

A revolution in the world’s human rights dialog has been brewing since at least 1997, when China ratified the UN International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights, a step the US has yet to take. Barely twenty-four years later, on June 1, 2021, the country will set a human rights benchmark by becoming a xiaokang[*]Lesser prosperity: a necessary precondition for Confucius’ datong society, in which everyone loves everyone equally and is so trusting that ‘everyone leaves their outer doors unlocked at night’. society, in which everyone without exception has a home, a job, plenty of food, education, safe streets, health and old age care.

On that day there will be more poor, hungry and imprisoned people in America than in China–simply because they have different human rights priorities.

We prioritize the Roman ideal of the individual self, abstracted from community, seeking salvation through personal freedom from worldly bondage–the antithesis of China’s human rights values–and the basis for our criticisms of them.

ChinaGap-1

They prioritize the Confucian self, defined by community, family and mutual interactions, and finding liberation through service to socioeconomic harmony. As Randall Nadeau[3]Confucianism and the Problem of Human Rights. Randall Nadeau. Intercultural Communication Studies XI: 2 2002 says, “Christian-based Western values like radical autonomy of the individual, the soul in a transcendent relationship to the world, the prioritizing of the individual over the family and the prioritizing of the individual over the state are alien to the Chinese. The West defines human rights as ‘freedom from’ oppressive tendencies of the family and state, and grounds human rights in the fundamental equality of all persons. Thus, human rights are equated with human liberation–liberation of the autonomous individual from the restrictive community”. Nadeau observes that the Chinese language even lacks equivalents for freedom, liberty, individual, autonomy, rights, choice, equality and dignity.

Their priorities are elsewhere. Mencius insisted that the government must first provide food and shelter for everyone before it can expect lawful behavior, “The regulation of the people’s livelihood is such that, above, they do not have enough to serve their parents and below they do not have enough to support their wives and children. Even in years of prosperity their lives are bitter while in years of dearth they barely escape starvation and, under such circumstances desperately try to avoid death. How could they spare time to observe rites and lawfulness?” Yet, though the Chinese have always prioritized collective rights over individual rights, they have no fundamental disagreement with the West, as Premier Wen Jiabao said, “Science, democracy, rule of law, freedom and human rights are not concepts unique to capitalism. Rather, they are common values pursued by all mankind throughout history: the fruits of human civilization. It is only that–at different historical stages and in different countries–they are achieved through different means and in different forms”.

Though the US and China foster human rights through different means and in different forms, we can compare their degree of success thanks to The United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights, to which both are signatories. Instead of scrutinizing China’s record, as is usually done, the comments focus on our own shortcomings to explain why, when the transition to Chinese leadership occurs, it will be more from recognition of a fait accompli than a revolution.

ChinaGap-2

Preamble. The United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights was voted into existence on December 10, 1948 so that every individual and every organ of society, keeping this Declaration constantly in mind, shall strive by teaching and education to promote respect for these rights and freedoms and by progressive measures, national and international, to secure their universal and effective recognition and observance, both among the peoples of Member States themselves and among the peoples of territories under their jurisdiction.

1. All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood. China’s policy of liangshaoyikuan–charging and sentencing minorities more leniently for the same criminal offenses–and similar positive discrimination towards minorities compare favorably with America’s.

2. Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty. China’s 1979 attack on Vietnam was disgraceful but America’s attacks on other nations are more frequent.

3. Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person. As Jimmy Carter observed, “Revelations that top officials are targeting people to be assassinated abroad, including American citizens, are only the most recent, disturbing proof of how far our nation’s violation of human rights has extended”.

4. No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms. While critics labeled employees of Foxconn (Apple’s manufacturer in China) ‘slaves,’ forced labor in American prisons and on farms seem worse.

5. No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment. Jimmy Carter: “Our government’s counterterrorism policies are now clearly violating at least 10 of the Declaration’s 30 Articles, including the prohibition against ‘cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment’”.

6. Everyone has the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law. Prisoners are held in Guantanamo specifically to avoid recognizing them as persons under the law.

7. All are equal before the law and are entitled, without any discrimination, to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination. The US does not prosecute its criminal elite. China does, and treats its minorities more generously than the majority.

8. Everyone has the right to an effective remedy by the competent national tribunals for acts violating the fundamental rights granted him by the constitution or by law. America denied effective remedy to Guantanamo prisoners and to Chelsea Manning, Julian Assange and Edward Snowden and imprisons and executes more blacks than South Africa at the height of apartheid, mostly without trial.

9. No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile. The US kidnaps and imprisons people at home and abroad.

10. Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge against him. Jimmy Carter: “Recent legislation has made legal the president’s right to detain a person indefinitely on suspicion of affiliation with terrorist organizations. This law violates the right to freedom of expression and to be presumed innocent until proved guilty, two other rights enshrined in the declaration. In addition to American citizens’ being targeted for assassination or indefinite detention”.

11.1. Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he has had all the guarantees necessary for his defense. (2) No one shall be held guilty of any penal offence on account of any act or omission which did not constitute a penal offence, under national or international law, at the time when it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed than the one that was applicable at the time the penal offence was committed. America holds twenty-five percent of the world’s prison population, most of whom never received a trial. Guantánamo Bay houses forty men, some of whom have been tortured a hundred times.

12. No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks. America operates 360-degree, 24-hour surveillance and makes regular police home invasions.

13.1. Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state. (2) Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country. America’s secret, no-fly list denies this right to 50,000 citizens while China’s hukou deny the right to freedom of residence within its borders.

14.1. Everyone has the right to seek and to enjoy in other countries asylum from persecution. (2) This right may not be invoked in the case of prosecutions genuinely arising from non-political crimes or from acts contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations. The US denies Edward Snowden and Julian Assange this right.

15.1. Everyone has the right to a nationality. (2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change his nationality.

16.1. Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution. (2) Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses. (3) The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State.

17.1. Everyone has the right to own property alone as well as in association with others. (2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his property. Without proving a crime, American police, using civil forfeiture, take more money from Americans than robbers.

18. Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance. China restricts publicizing religion while in the US, as Carter observed, “Popular state laws permit detaining individuals because of their appearance, where they worship, or with whom they associate”.

19. Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers. America observes this right more fully than China.

20.1. Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association. (2) No one may be compelled to belong to an association. The US flunked its United Nations ‘peaceful assembly’ inspection while Chinese protesters hold thousands of noisy, nonviolent assemblies each year.

21.1. Everyone has the right to take part in the government of his country, directly or through freely chosen representatives. (2) Everyone has the right of equal access to public service in his country. (3) The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government; this will shall be expressed in periodic and genuine elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secret vote or by equivalent free voting procedures. Neither Chinese nor American voters directly elect their heads of State. Chinese prisoners retain their right to vote and voter participation is sixty-two percent compared to fifty-five percent in the US. Twenty percent of Americans approve of their government’s policies compared to ninety percent of Chinese.

22. Everyone, as a member of society, has the right to social security and is entitled to realization, through national effort and international cooperation and in accordance with the organization and resources of each State, of the economic, social and cultural rights indispensable for his dignity and the free development of his personality.

23.1. Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment. (2) Everyone, without any discrimination, has the right to equal pay for equal work. (3) Everyone who works has the right to just and favourable remuneration ensuring for himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity, and supplemented, if necessary, by other means of social protection. (4) Everyone has the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests. China’s per capita union membership is double America’s and Chinese wages have risen faster than the economy for forty years.

24. Everyone has the right to rest and leisure, including reasonable limitation of working hours and periodic holidays with pay. Chinese have sixteen paid, mandatory vacation days each year. Americans have none.

25.1. Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control. The US Department of Housing and Urban Development estimates there are roughly half a million homeless people in the United States on any given night, in a country with 18 million empty homes. China has none. (2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection. China has higher home ownership, lower food insecurity and better access to medical care than the US. Longevity is rising in China and will surpass the US in 2025.

26.1. Everyone has the right to education. Education shall be free, at least in the elementary and fundamental stages. Elementary education shall be compulsory. Technical and professional education shall be made generally available and higher education shall be equally accessible to all on the basis of merit. (2) Education shall be directed to the full development of the human personality and to the strengthening of respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms. It shall promote understanding, tolerance and friendship among all nations, racial or religious groups, and shall further the activities of the United Nations for the maintenance of peace. (3) Parents have a prior right to choose the kind of education that shall be given to their children. Poor Chinese children outscore American children in PISA tests.

27.1. Everyone has the right freely to participate in the cultural life of the community, to enjoy the arts and to share in scientific advancement and its benefits. (2) Everyone has the right to the protection of the moral and material interests resulting from any scientific, literary or artistic production of which he is the author.

28. Everyone is entitled to a social and international order in which the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration can be fully realized. The USA has deprived the people of thirty-five countries of their rights and since World War II by invading them.

29.1. Everyone has duties to the community in which alone the free and full development of his personality is possible. (2) In the exercise of his rights and freedoms, everyone shall be subject only to such limitations as are determined by law solely for the purpose of securing due recognition and respect for the rights and freedoms of others and of meeting the just requirements of morality, public order and the general welfare in a democratic society. (3) These rights and freedoms may in no case be exercised contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.

30. Nothing in this Declaration may be interpreted as implying for any State, group or person any right to engage in any activity or to perform any act aimed at the destruction of any of the rights and freedoms set forth herein.

Notes

[1] A Cruel and Unusual Record. By Jimmy Carter, June 24, 2012. New York Times

[*] Lesser prosperity: a necessary precondition for Confucius’ datong society, in which everyone loves everyone equally and is so trusting that ‘everyone leaves their outer doors unlocked at night’.

[2] Statement on Visit to the USA. Professor Philip Alston, United Nations Special Rapporteur on extreme poverty and human rights. Washington, December 15, 2017

[3] Confucianism and the Problem of Human Rights. Randall Nadeau. Intercultural Communication Studies XI: 2 2002

[4] The Great Learning. Confucius

 
The China/America Series
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  1. I have lived in Mainland China for over a decade and have traveled extensively within China during this time. The bar graph near the top of this article is the most blatant lie I’ve ever seen in my life (which is saying a lot given the nature of US MSM today), and the only thing that amazes me more than the tendency of so many Chinese people to prop up a regime that abuses and oppresses them and leaves them no option but to live in filth and squalor is the tendency for so many from the West to believe their easily refuted lies. Like it has always been throughout history, China is as poor as fuck and is a filthy dump, including so-called modern cities such as Shanghai and Beijing. Chinese culture, as ever, remains a creepy blend of autism and sociopathy, filled to the brim with semi-conscious automatons, stammering around bumping into each other, incessantly screaming at each other about nonsense, failing to master the art of forming a line. Do not believe a word of what you read from Chinese propagandists or from US left-leaning media. The modernization, the rising economy, the supposed superior intelligence of the Chinese (ask people who’ve taught in China) — it’s all BS. There is a reason China is perpetually lagging behind, and if China doesn’t pull its head out of its ass really soon and pay attention to reality, it’s about to be FUBAR.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
    I've been visiting China since 1967, live an hour from the SW border and travel there several times a year, mostly to verify charts like the one in the article.

    I go to remote, Tier 2 or Tier 3 cities and inventory their infrastructure: does it match what a city of that size needs? How much construction is going on (of course), and the mood and physical cues of everyone I meet–their clothing, grooming, responsiveness, interactions with others, etc.

    I talk to less fortunate folks, like single mothers with illegitimate children, chamber maids and vendors. I talk to local expats–all readily accessible through their local clubs online–and see if their observations agree with mine.

    So far, everything checks out.

    What's more, everything I see matches what you would infer from studying reports by the WTO, IMF, World Bank, foreign and local patent offices, trade figures, UN rapporteurs' and RAND reports.

    What, specifically did you see that occasioned your doubt? Where did you see it? When? Do you have an image or other evidence we can see?
    , @Ilya G Poimandres
    My economics teacher gave the same opinion in '00 when I was applying for uni and we were having debates. It was wrong then it's wrong now.
    , @Bardon Kaldian

    the only thing that amazes me more than the tendency of so many Chinese people to prop up a regime that abuses and oppresses them and leaves them no option but to live in filth and squalor is the tendency for so many from the West to believe their easily refuted lies
     
    Oriental mind.
    , @Biff
    Yea, you can find a lot of opinions and outright lines of bullshit here on the Internet, yours being the latter, buy hey, nobody’s perfect.
    Personally I’ve been milling around in Asia for 27 years, and it’s changed quite a lot. There still are many pockets of poor areas, but in context, things have been improving - not evenly across the board, but that’s expected; no place does.
    But in contrast to other parts of the world(maybe Detroit), there is in general a one-direction lateral movement on improving living standards.
    One kind of frame of thinking that I’ve latched on to is you don’t need a big stainless steel house on the hill to be satisfied - small and simple minimalism can be just as satisfying - I know that it might look odd to a Westerner, because it looked odd to me at first. Big houses are for those who want to get away from other family members, because social interaction with them is just so dam horrifying - you know the type - school shooters and the like.

    Point is, life is always in a flux; nothing is in a permanent state, and for those who keep trying and trying to reach perfection in their living standards that dukkha can be a real bitch.
    , @jilles dykstra
    I've never been to China.
    But what you describe isin blatant contradiction with what is described in the following book, the author has a Chinese wife, Chinese relatives and Chinise collaborators
    James K.Galbraith, 'Inequality and Instability, A Study of the World Economy Just Before the Great Crisis', New York, 2012
    A friend of mine, economic advisor to an business man of Chinese origin in the Netherlands, went with him to China, stayed with his parents.
    He also did not tell me what you write.
    And how about Porsches, Audis, BMWs and Harleys selling in considerable numbers in China ?

    About human rights, I belong to those who have come to the conclusion that Sept 11 was not a Muslim terror act.
    Besides, there were the CIA renditions, there still are, ever more, USA killer drones flying whereever it pleases the USA.
    On top of that, why should the world accept the human rights of western propaganda ?
    What makes many in the west think that they have the right to proscribe others what human rights should be ?
    Cultures exist where marriages are arranged, is there any proof that the western system incrases happiness ?
    , @Moi
    In light of your views, I'm puzzled why you'd live there for more than a decade.
    , @FB
    You're just a bullshit artiste...I seriously doubt you've ever stepped foot in the PRC...

    Provincialism is incredibly easy to spot...especially for people who have actually traveled the world...you're not fooling anybody, except other hayseeds here who haven't gone anywhere or seen anything...

    Like Mr. Roberts challenged you to do...please show some actual evidence for your claims...LOL...I think we'll be waiting a long time for that...
    , @DB Cooper
    If you go to YouTube and do a search there are tons of vlog posted by expats about their lives in China. These vlogs show not only cities like Beijing or Shanghai but smaller cities or even the boonies. Some are English teachers on short stay, some married into Chinese families and lives there for decades. None of these vlogs show anything in common with what you said. You are a liar.

    Obviously this article reveal a China that is not as bad as the MSM would like us to have believed and this bother you. My question is why?

    , @Vidi

    I have lived in Mainland China for over a decade. [Lots of trash talk deleted]
     
    When did you live in China? In 1950, right after a civil war destroyed much of the country?
    , @Hapalong Cassidy
    Someone who visited China once told me that it was very common there for women to hold their infants above public trash cans to let them relieve themselves. This wasn’t in some backwater berg either, it was in Shanghai.
    , @Daniel Chieh
    Cool story bro
    , @jack daniels
    Well said! Thank your saying that. I suspected as much. I would add that if the Chinese really think liberty of the individual is an alien and decadent idea that is all the more reason to keep them from immigrating here. We want people who, though not necessarily wretched or huddled, are yearning to breathe free. The right to define one's goals and express one's views is the ONLY human right, since without it the others are just the right of a vegetable to be watered.
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  2. Anon[362] • Disclaimer says:

    Blacks and ‘white trash’ are fatsos who blow their money on bling.

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    • Replies: @FKA Max
    Personally, I'm not too worried about the poor in the U.S. going hungry either:

    Poverty and Obesity in the U.S.

    Are poverty and obesity associated? Poverty rates and obesity were reviewed across 3,139 counties in the U.S. (2,6). In contrast to international trends, people in America who live in the most poverty-dense counties are those most prone to obesity (Fig. 1A). Counties with poverty rates of >35% have obesity rates 145% greater than wealthy counties.
     
    - http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/60/11/2667

    http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/diabetes/60/11/2667/F1.medium.gif

    FIG. 1.

    Data from 3,139 counties in the U.S. Quintiles are cohorts of counties ranked by the percentage of people living with poverty. Quintile 1, the wealthiest quintile, includes 630 U.S. counties with a mean county poverty rate of 8.2% (median household income, $56,259). Quintile 5, the poorest quintile, includes 629 counties with a mean poverty rate of 25% (median household income, $32,679). A: County age-adjusted obesity rates by poverty quintile. B: County obesity rates vs. county leisure-time sedentary rates (sedentary adults are those who report no physical activity or exercise other than at their regular job). C: County sedentary rates. D: Age-adjusted diabetes rate by poverty quintile.

    Obesity rate will reach nearly 50% by 2030 in the U.S., says OEC

    https://ei.marketwatch.com/Multimedia/2017/05/19/Photos/NS/MW-FM801_obseit_20170519065202_NS.jpg

    Source: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-us-is-the-most-obese-nation-in-the-world-just-ahead-of-mexico-2017-05-19
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  3. jim jones says:

    Would you like to live in a Chinese house?

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    • LOL: FB
    • Replies: @FB
    real 'authoritative' youtube video there...a couple of certified yahoos who go and find some dilapitaded building...like there aren't all kinds like that in any city...does anyone even live there...I didn't notice a single live Chinese person in that whole video...LOL...I guess all 1.4 billion of them must be hiding...

    Why not interview some of the people there...?...oh yeah...because then their fake BS would fall apart...

    And these certified yahoos are talking about building 'standards'...funny I didn't see their ciuvil engineering diplomas displayed in the video...LOL

    , @Chinese
    “Nadeau observes that the Chinese language even lacks equivalents for freedom, liberty, individual, autonomy, rights, choice, equality and dignity.”

    What a load of nonsense!

    自由- liberty, freedom
    自治的 - autonomous
    权 - rights
    选择 - choice
    平等 - equality
    尊严 - dignity

    Clearly Nadeau has no idea what he is talking about and, with respect, your critical capacity must be severely lacking if you believe any human language, particularly one derived from of a longstanding civilisation and used in a modern society, would be incapable of expressing these concepts. How do you think Mao pushed for communism if he didn’t use words such as equality and rights? How do you think Taiwan has elections if there is no word for choice? How could the conventions you refer to be ratified and translated into Chinese if there was no word for rights? Have you never heard of the various ‘autonomous’ regions of China? You probably never even read the Chinese constitution.

    Superficially the fact the Chinese language does have these words and that some of them are in the Chinese constitution might support your pro Chinese slant (or should that be propaganda), but the lack of even rudimentary knowledge of these basic facts suggests you have done no research and have no business commenting on human rights in China at all.

    So basically after reading that, I thought the whole article would be badly thought out nonsense. I barely skimmed the rest, but I saw the claim that neither China nor US voters directly elect the head of state. While technically true it shows complete ignorance of the practical reality, or maybe just a mendacious wish to deceive. Most people noticed in 2016 the contest was between Trump and Clinton - and voters basically had that in mind when voting. Watch some news and you might figure it out.
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  4. Barely twenty-four years later, on June 1, 2021, the country will set a human rights benchmark by becoming a xiaokang society, in which everyone without exception has a home, a job, plenty of food, education, safe streets, health and old age care.

    Never mind the persecution of groups like Falun Gong practitioners. Never mind the wildly oppressive CCP that won’t even let it’s people through their great firewall. Never mind the organ harvesting scandals. Never mind the hatchet and machete-weilding muslims killing more people in one attack than even the worst mass shooting in US history. Never mind the ridiculous gender imbalance from the infanticidal one child policy that has China sitting with millions of men who have no chance of ever getting laid, much less settling down and raising a family.

    I don’t think there’s a single point on that list of human rights that China is not in violation of pretty much constantly. They are openly and overtly what the traitorous establishment in America has been trying to become quietly and covertly. Totalitarians.

    But never mind all that! Look over here! We’re gonna give everyone houses and food and everyone’s gonna be so darn trusting and peaceful that they’ll leave their own doors unlocked at night.

    I’m super convinced, Chicoms. Sounds peachy keen. Not that you’d ever say otherwise if it weren’t.

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  5. Brabantian says: • Website

    Re the graph at top of the article, much of the reason that many USA people ‘don’t have enough money to buy food’, is because they spent their funds on nonsense, gadgets, mobile phone time, designer label clothes, and whatnot … let alone the drug abuse issue

    Too many USA residents are impulsive people, unable to restrain themselves and budget over a monthly time period

    Not to deny that there really is hardship and poverty in the USA … but lack of impulse control by USA ‘lumpenproletariat’ is quite as big of a problem

    Despite their common gambling, real estate speculation etc instincts, Chinese people have far more good sense in terms of saving and stretching funds in order to acquire the necessities of life

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    • Agree: Byrresheim
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  6. @Pooh Bear 250
    I have lived in Mainland China for over a decade and have traveled extensively within China during this time. The bar graph near the top of this article is the most blatant lie I've ever seen in my life (which is saying a lot given the nature of US MSM today), and the only thing that amazes me more than the tendency of so many Chinese people to prop up a regime that abuses and oppresses them and leaves them no option but to live in filth and squalor is the tendency for so many from the West to believe their easily refuted lies. Like it has always been throughout history, China is as poor as fuck and is a filthy dump, including so-called modern cities such as Shanghai and Beijing. Chinese culture, as ever, remains a creepy blend of autism and sociopathy, filled to the brim with semi-conscious automatons, stammering around bumping into each other, incessantly screaming at each other about nonsense, failing to master the art of forming a line. Do not believe a word of what you read from Chinese propagandists or from US left-leaning media. The modernization, the rising economy, the supposed superior intelligence of the Chinese (ask people who've taught in China) -- it's all BS. There is a reason China is perpetually lagging behind, and if China doesn't pull its head out of its ass really soon and pay attention to reality, it's about to be FUBAR.

    I’ve been visiting China since 1967, live an hour from the SW border and travel there several times a year, mostly to verify charts like the one in the article.

    I go to remote, Tier 2 or Tier 3 cities and inventory their infrastructure: does it match what a city of that size needs? How much construction is going on (of course), and the mood and physical cues of everyone I meet–their clothing, grooming, responsiveness, interactions with others, etc.

    I talk to less fortunate folks, like single mothers with illegitimate children, chamber maids and vendors. I talk to local expats–all readily accessible through their local clubs online–and see if their observations agree with mine.

    So far, everything checks out.

    What’s more, everything I see matches what you would infer from studying reports by the WTO, IMF, World Bank, foreign and local patent offices, trade figures, UN rapporteurs’ and RAND reports.

    What, specifically did you see that occasioned your doubt? Where did you see it? When? Do you have an image or other evidence we can see?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Bill

    So far, everything checks out.
     
    Are the poor Chinese who allegedly do have enough to eat more or less obese than the poor Americans who allegedly do not have enough to eat?
    , @Art
    For the last 1,000 years the Chinese have been practicing Confusion philosophy, and have starved.

    The West has been practicing Christian philosophy, and has thrived.

    Today the Chinese have stolen what the West created, and they are doing very well. Within decades the Chinese will return to their old ways, and the golden goose of the West’s thinking will be crushed. It is already happening. The commie party with its for life dictator are ever more crushing dissent.

    Most all the bad things that this article says about America are true. America is in a dark place. Its Western values have been supplanted with Jew coercion. Greedy narcistic Jew individualism has overtaken the Wests sense of responsible community.

    Christianity will come back and defeat the Jews.

    Think Peace --- Do No Harm --- Art
    , @Daniel Chieh
    I remember the "squalor" of China in 2009. The pollution was always an issue and outside my apartment, there were newly destroyed buildings for probable reconstruction. Laws being what they were and unclear ownership, quite a few people were scavenging among the rubble for metal that I presume they later sold. There was something about the efficiency to it, though, that is hard to forget - by the time they were finished, and I assume some work crews came, it was actually clean and ready for the next construction.

    I remember the work crews sitting in great numbers on the grass, and how canteen food was brought to them at lunch: a bowl of soup and a bun for each. Simple, and for a Western consideration, pretty harsh - but hardly terrible. Oh yeah, and evidently they could form a queue. I remember the lights of welders going day in, day out. I remember entire new buildings created in a week's time. I'm sure with the safety conditions being what they were, more died than what we would find acceptable.

    There is was a hardness to life then, for many. But things got done, and as hard as life was for them, the word "squalor" isn't quite right. They had jobs, homes, and hopes. Perhaps entertaining was more plain - I remember some of them listening to a dramatic rendition of Romance of Three Kingdoms on the radio, or a bit more alcoholism on the weekends than ideal with the fiery baijiu, but these were not, on the whole, "miserable, oppressed people."

    These days, much of that has gone away for smartphones and e-bikes and stupid status signaling. Life is overall better. But I think its worth noting that even when it wasn't, its hardly the disaster that some propagandists want to portray.
    , @Anonymous
    I remember stumbling across a bunch of Chinese sleeping rough under an underpass in Beijing, while walking from the central train station to the main tourist area. I'm guessing they were migrants from the country who had come to the big city looking for work.

    Saying there's zero homelessness in China is a massive lie.
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  7. @Pooh Bear 250
    I have lived in Mainland China for over a decade and have traveled extensively within China during this time. The bar graph near the top of this article is the most blatant lie I've ever seen in my life (which is saying a lot given the nature of US MSM today), and the only thing that amazes me more than the tendency of so many Chinese people to prop up a regime that abuses and oppresses them and leaves them no option but to live in filth and squalor is the tendency for so many from the West to believe their easily refuted lies. Like it has always been throughout history, China is as poor as fuck and is a filthy dump, including so-called modern cities such as Shanghai and Beijing. Chinese culture, as ever, remains a creepy blend of autism and sociopathy, filled to the brim with semi-conscious automatons, stammering around bumping into each other, incessantly screaming at each other about nonsense, failing to master the art of forming a line. Do not believe a word of what you read from Chinese propagandists or from US left-leaning media. The modernization, the rising economy, the supposed superior intelligence of the Chinese (ask people who've taught in China) -- it's all BS. There is a reason China is perpetually lagging behind, and if China doesn't pull its head out of its ass really soon and pay attention to reality, it's about to be FUBAR.

    My economics teacher gave the same opinion in ’00 when I was applying for uni and we were having debates. It was wrong then it’s wrong now.

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  8. padre says:

    It is interesting, how you pick countries, that abuse human rights!No word about Saudi Arabia, Israel, and the likes, even the USA, but China, Russia, they are disgusting with their behavior!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Farisaios
    western , or anglosaxon , " human rights " campaigns are a selective weapon of psychological destruction against any country that dares to defy the Empire .
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  9. @Pooh Bear 250
    I have lived in Mainland China for over a decade and have traveled extensively within China during this time. The bar graph near the top of this article is the most blatant lie I've ever seen in my life (which is saying a lot given the nature of US MSM today), and the only thing that amazes me more than the tendency of so many Chinese people to prop up a regime that abuses and oppresses them and leaves them no option but to live in filth and squalor is the tendency for so many from the West to believe their easily refuted lies. Like it has always been throughout history, China is as poor as fuck and is a filthy dump, including so-called modern cities such as Shanghai and Beijing. Chinese culture, as ever, remains a creepy blend of autism and sociopathy, filled to the brim with semi-conscious automatons, stammering around bumping into each other, incessantly screaming at each other about nonsense, failing to master the art of forming a line. Do not believe a word of what you read from Chinese propagandists or from US left-leaning media. The modernization, the rising economy, the supposed superior intelligence of the Chinese (ask people who've taught in China) -- it's all BS. There is a reason China is perpetually lagging behind, and if China doesn't pull its head out of its ass really soon and pay attention to reality, it's about to be FUBAR.

    the only thing that amazes me more than the tendency of so many Chinese people to prop up a regime that abuses and oppresses them and leaves them no option but to live in filth and squalor is the tendency for so many from the West to believe their easily refuted lies

    Oriental mind.

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  10. Anonymous[570] • Disclaimer says:

    Roberts: “seeking salvation through personal freedom from worldly bondage”

    Jew Testament: “We worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews.” (John 4:22)

    No wonder the Chinese bulldozed the Liangwang Catholic Church in Jinan province last month. Being Communist is well enough kikery.

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    • Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    This is such an ignorant comment as it conflates the pre-Christ Hebrews with the post-Christ Talmudic Jews.
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  11. Biff says:
    @Pooh Bear 250
    I have lived in Mainland China for over a decade and have traveled extensively within China during this time. The bar graph near the top of this article is the most blatant lie I've ever seen in my life (which is saying a lot given the nature of US MSM today), and the only thing that amazes me more than the tendency of so many Chinese people to prop up a regime that abuses and oppresses them and leaves them no option but to live in filth and squalor is the tendency for so many from the West to believe their easily refuted lies. Like it has always been throughout history, China is as poor as fuck and is a filthy dump, including so-called modern cities such as Shanghai and Beijing. Chinese culture, as ever, remains a creepy blend of autism and sociopathy, filled to the brim with semi-conscious automatons, stammering around bumping into each other, incessantly screaming at each other about nonsense, failing to master the art of forming a line. Do not believe a word of what you read from Chinese propagandists or from US left-leaning media. The modernization, the rising economy, the supposed superior intelligence of the Chinese (ask people who've taught in China) -- it's all BS. There is a reason China is perpetually lagging behind, and if China doesn't pull its head out of its ass really soon and pay attention to reality, it's about to be FUBAR.

    Yea, you can find a lot of opinions and outright lines of bullshit here on the Internet, yours being the latter, buy hey, nobody’s perfect.
    Personally I’ve been milling around in Asia for 27 years, and it’s changed quite a lot. There still are many pockets of poor areas, but in context, things have been improving – not evenly across the board, but that’s expected; no place does.
    But in contrast to other parts of the world(maybe Detroit), there is in general a one-direction lateral movement on improving living standards.
    One kind of frame of thinking that I’ve latched on to is you don’t need a big stainless steel house on the hill to be satisfied – small and simple minimalism can be just as satisfying – I know that it might look odd to a Westerner, because it looked odd to me at first. Big houses are for those who want to get away from other family members, because social interaction with them is just so dam horrifying – you know the type – school shooters and the like.

    Point is, life is always in a flux; nothing is in a permanent state, and for those who keep trying and trying to reach perfection in their living standards that dukkha can be a real bitch.

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  12. Bucky says:

    China’s policy of liangshaoyikuan–charging and sentencing minorities more leniently for the same criminal offenses–and similar positive discrimination towards minorities compare favorably with America’s.

    You’re really going down this route? This is basically what BLM ultimately wants.

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    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    He's a bioleninist. Why wouldn't he?

    Elsewhere in his article he states:

    Poor Chinese children outscore American children in PISA tests.
     
    Only a completely ignorant bioleninist would consider this fact noteworthy at all.
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  13. @Pooh Bear 250
    I have lived in Mainland China for over a decade and have traveled extensively within China during this time. The bar graph near the top of this article is the most blatant lie I've ever seen in my life (which is saying a lot given the nature of US MSM today), and the only thing that amazes me more than the tendency of so many Chinese people to prop up a regime that abuses and oppresses them and leaves them no option but to live in filth and squalor is the tendency for so many from the West to believe their easily refuted lies. Like it has always been throughout history, China is as poor as fuck and is a filthy dump, including so-called modern cities such as Shanghai and Beijing. Chinese culture, as ever, remains a creepy blend of autism and sociopathy, filled to the brim with semi-conscious automatons, stammering around bumping into each other, incessantly screaming at each other about nonsense, failing to master the art of forming a line. Do not believe a word of what you read from Chinese propagandists or from US left-leaning media. The modernization, the rising economy, the supposed superior intelligence of the Chinese (ask people who've taught in China) -- it's all BS. There is a reason China is perpetually lagging behind, and if China doesn't pull its head out of its ass really soon and pay attention to reality, it's about to be FUBAR.

    I’ve never been to China.
    But what you describe isin blatant contradiction with what is described in the following book, the author has a Chinese wife, Chinese relatives and Chinise collaborators
    James K.Galbraith, ‘Inequality and Instability, A Study of the World Economy Just Before the Great Crisis’, New York, 2012
    A friend of mine, economic advisor to an business man of Chinese origin in the Netherlands, went with him to China, stayed with his parents.
    He also did not tell me what you write.
    And how about Porsches, Audis, BMWs and Harleys selling in considerable numbers in China ?

    About human rights, I belong to those who have come to the conclusion that Sept 11 was not a Muslim terror act.
    Besides, there were the CIA renditions, there still are, ever more, USA killer drones flying whereever it pleases the USA.
    On top of that, why should the world accept the human rights of western propaganda ?
    What makes many in the west think that they have the right to proscribe others what human rights should be ?
    Cultures exist where marriages are arranged, is there any proof that the western system incrases happiness ?

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  14. China’s policy of liangshaoyikuan–charging and sentencing minorities more leniently for the same criminal offenses–and similar positive discrimination towards minorities compare favorably with America’s.

    Leftists consider this a good thing.

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    • Agree: Bucky
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  15. They prioritize the Confucian self, defined by community, family and mutual interactions, and finding liberation through service to socioeconomic harmony. As Randall Nadeau[3] says, “Christian-based Western values like radical autonomy of the individual, the soul in a transcendent relationship to the world, the prioritizing of the individual over the family and the prioritizing of the individual over the state are alien to the Chinese.

     Does China’s President Xi’s apparent modeling of the vision and spirit of Kublai Khan signal a more hopeful force and pattern for mankind’s future or will China’s stewardship of mankind repeat these same inequities?

    https://robertmagill.wordpress.com/2018/08/05/middle-kingdom-vs-the-cowboys/

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  16. Moi says:
    @Pooh Bear 250
    I have lived in Mainland China for over a decade and have traveled extensively within China during this time. The bar graph near the top of this article is the most blatant lie I've ever seen in my life (which is saying a lot given the nature of US MSM today), and the only thing that amazes me more than the tendency of so many Chinese people to prop up a regime that abuses and oppresses them and leaves them no option but to live in filth and squalor is the tendency for so many from the West to believe their easily refuted lies. Like it has always been throughout history, China is as poor as fuck and is a filthy dump, including so-called modern cities such as Shanghai and Beijing. Chinese culture, as ever, remains a creepy blend of autism and sociopathy, filled to the brim with semi-conscious automatons, stammering around bumping into each other, incessantly screaming at each other about nonsense, failing to master the art of forming a line. Do not believe a word of what you read from Chinese propagandists or from US left-leaning media. The modernization, the rising economy, the supposed superior intelligence of the Chinese (ask people who've taught in China) -- it's all BS. There is a reason China is perpetually lagging behind, and if China doesn't pull its head out of its ass really soon and pay attention to reality, it's about to be FUBAR.

    In light of your views, I’m puzzled why you’d live there for more than a decade.

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    • Replies: @D
    It's an open secret that most, if not all, of the long-term western expats in China are losers back home (LBH). They depend on China as their source of income and women who would sleep with them, but they also typically display contempt for the Chinese people and wish for the destruction of the Chinese nation.
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  17. @Anonymous
    Roberts: "seeking salvation through personal freedom from worldly bondage"

    Jew Testament: "We worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews." (John 4:22)

    No wonder the Chinese bulldozed the Liangwang Catholic Church in Jinan province last month. Being Communist is well enough kikery.

    This is such an ignorant comment as it conflates the pre-Christ Hebrews with the post-Christ Talmudic Jews.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    This is such an ignorant comment as it denies what the Jew Testament teaches: Christians are pathetic wannabee Jews. Who cares which of the many sects of Jew is the most embarrassing with which to be associated; all Jews are freakish genital-mutilators. Why would you too desire to be an honorary genital-mutilator?

    "For it is we [Christians] who are the Circumcision." Philippians 3:3
     
    And it wasn't the Talmudic variety of Jews who inspired Marx, it was Christian Jews.

    "Not one of them claimed that anything belonging to him was his own, but all things were common property to them...and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need." Acts 4:32-35
     
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  18. This piece has some key ideas based in hogwash philosophy.

    First of all, the “Roman ideal” of a rootless individual is nonsense. Have you ever read actual Roman philosophy? They gave us the word “patria” for crying out loud. Roman people went over to the Catholic faith in large part because their pagan religions were unable to help them retain communal life during a period of great socioeconomic change and disorder.

    Second, it is wrong to state that Christianity removes the individual entirely from his patrimony. Traditional Christianity is a far more communal religion than you seem to think. There are almost countless examples of this in literature and non-leftist histories of medieval Europe, although my favorite is Chesterton’s ‘A Short History of England.’

    For evidence on the second point in Asia, I would merely cite the life of St. Francis Xavier. It took a clever mind like his to connect Christ to Asians, but once he did, conversions followed. Moreover, if China was indeed approaching some kind of synthesis between its Confucian past and its recent history, it would no doubt see such a need to persecute the underground (i.e. real) Chinese Catholic Church with the help of Marxist running dog Jorge Bergoglio, aka “Pope Francis.”

    Perhaps you’re one to say the authorities must persecute Christians because they represent a threat to ancient Chinese values. I doubt that. I think it’s because China’s government is still much more consumerist and materalist in its economic ways than any healthy state has any right to be.

    (And, mind you, I am an American who utterly despises modern America, so I have no qualms about American impressions of China being wrong.)

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    • Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    it would no doubt NOT see such a need to persecute the underground (i.e. real) Chinese Catholic Church
     
    , @Traditio vs Revolutio
    well said .

    Traditio vs Revolutio

    The Philipines were Cristianized , maybe China could have been too
    , @Anonymous
    The Romans did give us the word “patria” -- which the Jewish Rabbi Jesus denounced.

    "Call no man your Πατὴρ [patre]." (Matthew 23:9)
     
    Jesus went further to denounce Roman (Gentile) white patriarchy in Matthew 20:25, Mark 10:42, and Luke 22:25 Jesus was the original Antifa fanatic. For good reason, the Chinese realize that Jews aren't good news for ancient Chinese values.

    You are correct in observing Traditional Christianity is a far more communal religion, as Karl Marx lifted his famous maxim nearly word-for-word from a couple passages found within the Jew Testament.

    Jew Testament:
    • "each according to his ability" (MT 25:15)
    • "all things were common property to them...and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need" (Acts 4:32,35)

    Jew Marx:
    "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs."
    , @Godfree Roberts
    I am puzzled. I said nothing about either

    'the “Roman ideal” of a rootless individual' nor that ' Christianity removes the individual entirely from his patrimony'. Nothing whatever.
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  19. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    This piece has some key ideas based in hogwash philosophy.

    First of all, the "Roman ideal" of a rootless individual is nonsense. Have you ever read actual Roman philosophy? They gave us the word "patria" for crying out loud. Roman people went over to the Catholic faith in large part because their pagan religions were unable to help them retain communal life during a period of great socioeconomic change and disorder.

    Second, it is wrong to state that Christianity removes the individual entirely from his patrimony. Traditional Christianity is a far more communal religion than you seem to think. There are almost countless examples of this in literature and non-leftist histories of medieval Europe, although my favorite is Chesterton's 'A Short History of England.'

    For evidence on the second point in Asia, I would merely cite the life of St. Francis Xavier. It took a clever mind like his to connect Christ to Asians, but once he did, conversions followed. Moreover, if China was indeed approaching some kind of synthesis between its Confucian past and its recent history, it would no doubt see such a need to persecute the underground (i.e. real) Chinese Catholic Church with the help of Marxist running dog Jorge Bergoglio, aka "Pope Francis."

    Perhaps you're one to say the authorities must persecute Christians because they represent a threat to ancient Chinese values. I doubt that. I think it's because China's government is still much more consumerist and materalist in its economic ways than any healthy state has any right to be.

    (And, mind you, I am an American who utterly despises modern America, so I have no qualms about American impressions of China being wrong.)

    it would no doubt NOT see such a need to persecute the underground (i.e. real) Chinese Catholic Church

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  20. Hell, we here in America are losing our human rights and in fact our rights are under assault daily and our gov is becoming more and more like Orwells Oceania every day as the Constitution is being shredded by the Zionist controlled U.S. gov.

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  21. Farisaios says:
    @padre
    It is interesting, how you pick countries, that abuse human rights!No word about Saudi Arabia, Israel, and the likes, even the USA, but China, Russia, they are disgusting with their behavior!

    western , or anglosaxon , ” human rights ” campaigns are a selective weapon of psychological destruction against any country that dares to defy the Empire .

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  22. God-Free here has stated previously that Mao did more good for people than anyone else in history. That would be true in the sense that Mao personally sent more people immediately to heaven than anyone else in history.

    I think we’re being trolled. Nobody thinks China is anything else besides a miserable totalitarian excrement hole, and it will be such until the CCP is overthrown and all its leaders are sent to hell where they belong.

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    • Replies: @Vidi

    God-Free here has stated previously that Mao did more good for people than anyone else in history. That would be true in the sense that Mao personally sent more people immediately to heaven than anyone else in history.
     
    Did you actually read Godfree's article? China's population actually increased during the Great Leap Forward.
    , @Anonymous
    Hell, say you? Slopes aren't welcome in the Nordic underworld realm of Loki's half-dead daughter Hell, where we Ice People who have completed our life's journey on the Highway to Hell, i.e., Helvegr, will...

    ...spend their time doing the same kinds of things that Viking Age men and women did: eating, drinking, fighting, sleeping, and so forth. It wasn’t a place of eternal bliss or torment as much as it was simply a continuation of life somewhere else.
    http://norse-mythology.org/cosmology/the-nine-worlds/helheim/
     
    Of course, the Jew-worshiping Christians believe that their own ancestor's myths of Hell are something to be mocked, which is good reason for the Chinese to tear down Christian churches, if only to keep their own people from becoming as Jew-addled as the Kike-wannabees who comprise the "West."

    Loki wept.

    曾祖父 won't.
    , @Godfree Roberts
    There are very few fora left on the Internet where we can discuss subjects like this. Why trash it with ad hominem?

    If you want to question something I've written, question it. If you want to offer evidence to contradict what I write, offer it.
    , @denk

    Mao personally sent more people immediately to heaven than anyone else in history.
     
    liar

    I think we’re being trolled.
    [sic ]
    Nobody thinks China is anything else besides a miserable totalitarian excrement hole, and it will be such until the CCP is overthrown and all its leaders are sent to hell where they belong.
     
    You just run away from the asylum ?
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  23. A few decades ago in many european countries in order to have your ” rights ” you should first accomplish your ” duties ” , accomplish your duties and you will have your rights .

    But since the USA self denominated champion of the ” human rights ” of the world , without mentioning ” human duties ” , and Hollywood imposed the ” human rights ” evangile ( free lunch for all ) in the west and great part of the world , the number of bums and parasites / square kilometer in the world has increased tremendously .

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  24. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    This piece has some key ideas based in hogwash philosophy.

    First of all, the "Roman ideal" of a rootless individual is nonsense. Have you ever read actual Roman philosophy? They gave us the word "patria" for crying out loud. Roman people went over to the Catholic faith in large part because their pagan religions were unable to help them retain communal life during a period of great socioeconomic change and disorder.

    Second, it is wrong to state that Christianity removes the individual entirely from his patrimony. Traditional Christianity is a far more communal religion than you seem to think. There are almost countless examples of this in literature and non-leftist histories of medieval Europe, although my favorite is Chesterton's 'A Short History of England.'

    For evidence on the second point in Asia, I would merely cite the life of St. Francis Xavier. It took a clever mind like his to connect Christ to Asians, but once he did, conversions followed. Moreover, if China was indeed approaching some kind of synthesis between its Confucian past and its recent history, it would no doubt see such a need to persecute the underground (i.e. real) Chinese Catholic Church with the help of Marxist running dog Jorge Bergoglio, aka "Pope Francis."

    Perhaps you're one to say the authorities must persecute Christians because they represent a threat to ancient Chinese values. I doubt that. I think it's because China's government is still much more consumerist and materalist in its economic ways than any healthy state has any right to be.

    (And, mind you, I am an American who utterly despises modern America, so I have no qualms about American impressions of China being wrong.)

    well said .

    Traditio vs Revolutio

    The Philipines were Cristianized , maybe China could have been too

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  25. Personally, I don’t believe in “I’ve lived 30 years …” witnesses. So what? To form a valid, multifaceted view on a complex issue, one should possess a critical ability, largeness of mind, both intellectual elasticity & reliable mental framework- which is very rare.

    Other than that, one remains bogged down in trivialities:

    * the Chinese are old, self-reliant & somehow autistic race and culture. They’re hyper-nationalists by Western standards.

    * they are basically copycats with flashes of originality.

    * being communal & ancient culture, they value conformity over individuality

    * good news: low rates of violent crime; bad news: they’re boringly the same & you can’t discern Ching from Chong. Chinese language will never be a lingua franca- except in east Asia.

    * they are developing with fast pace, but even if they were all at the level of Taiwan or Singapore- they will remain apart from the rest of the world. There is no enough universality in that culture, whether high or low, to become global (unlike Westerners in all their manifestations)

    * they will always be different form Europeans (any variety), and even more from Indians, Muslims (as “brown” race & culture), let alone Africans whom they have virtually nothing in common with

    The eternal Han is simply a different species from Occidens aeternus.

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    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    GDP purchasing power parity per capita....yay China!

    64 Iran 20,030
    65 Mexico 19,480
    66 Lebanon 19,486
    67 Gabon 19,266
    68 Maldives 19,178
    69 Turkmenistan 18,680
    70 Belarus 18,616
    71 Botswana 18,146
    72 Thailand 17,786
    73 Barbados 17,508
    74 Montenegro 17,439
    75 Azerbaijan 17,433
    76 Costa Rica 17,149
    77 Iraq 17,004
    78 Dominican Republic 16,965
    79 China 16,624

    Also, it is a lot less fun than many of the basketcases that nonetheless have a higher average living standard.

    , @Anonymous

    Chinese language will never be a lingua franca- except in east Asia.
     
    I disagree. It's going to be a globally useful language, not far behind English.

    Firstly, Chinese tourists are almost incapable of speaking any other language, and yet have a large supply of easy money to dump all over the world. This encourages the tourist industry to become fluent in their language.

    Secondly, the Chinese diaspora already has a global reach, and is rapidly standardising around the Mandarin form of Chinese. This will spread the language wherever they do business. Expect random Africans to be able to speak basic Chinese because they had a Chinese boss a few years back.
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  26. Eighthman says:

    I would not want to live in China. That said, I am afraid of the observation that “China is becoming like the US was and the US is becoming like China was.”

    What China was? Corrupt, drug dependent, with a weak central government unable to defend the nation or itself. This seems to be the current trend of the US. The American Dream is fading away and the China Dream seems to be ascending.

    The real horror in the US is the irrelevance of exposure. Chicago complains about crime, national debts mount, tribalism grows, the military is strangely ineffective. I can understand why people support Trump despite his countless defects: they are desperate for some dynamism that appears as solutions.

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  27. Well at least there’s no equivalent to Unz.com there, so there’s that.

    Also the graph contradicts all the people here who say the government improving economy stats are fake.

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  28. Ibn Issam says:

    Although I have many criticisms of my own about China, it is still interesting and eye-opening to see the comparison with U.S.A.

    “Christian-based Western values like radical autonomy of the individual, the soul in a transcendent relationship to the world, the prioritizing of the individual over the family and the prioritizing of the individual over the state are alien to the Chinese.”

    This reminds me of Max Weber’s studies on the Protestant Reformation and the rise of Capitalism. The Christian ideal of individual spirit and elevation of the self above all else and all others has been extremely detrimental to western culture and society. I think that the western ideals about human rights are foreign to most traditional societies. Although Traditional societies, cultures, civilizations may not be in fundamental disagreement with the idea of human rights, there is still a core disagreement on what human rights are based upon or what authority they are derived from.

    Premier Wen Jiabao said, “Science, democracy, rule of law, freedom and human rights are not concepts unique to capitalism. Rather, they are common values pursued by all mankind throughout history: the fruits of human civilization. It is only that–at different historical stages and in different countries–they are achieved through different means and in different forms”.

    This statement by Premier Jibao is very accurate and holds true for Islamic civilization as well. Although I would acknowledge that there are many human rights abuses in various Muslim majority countries, and that many Muslims today have acted less than exemplary. I would say that this is largely due to not implementing Islam in the most proper and beneficial ways as it was implemented historically.

    Fundamental Human Rights are enshrined in Islamic Law. Indeed, one of the great scholars of Islam Ibn al-Qayyim (d. 1350) once said that, “the Islam in its entirety is justice, mercy and benefit. So if any issue that leads from justice to injustice, or mercy to its opposite, or benefit to harm, then it is NOT from Islam, even if someone thought that it is.” So the collective aim of Islam and Islamic Law is to facilitate Justice, peace, and benefit for humanity in this life and in the hereafter. This includes an assurance of social welfare and well-being.

    In Islamic tradition the individual has responsibilities toward his family, community, tribe, nation, co-religionists, humanity in general, and ultimately to Almighty God Allah, who mandates human rights for all mankind. So in Islam, human rights are grounded in God’s religion, and the well-being of the individual is closely connected to the greater community and the good works of charity, kindness, mercy and selfless service to other people. While Islam maintains the equality of all people, it is made clear that God Judges between us based on our piety, which should motivate us to compete in doing good works, and which engenders positive and beneficial service to others in the community. Each individual has basic Human rights which help assure his welfare, but which also do not violate the rights of the community, or cross the boundaries laid out by God.

    The great Islamic philosopher, scholar, and theologian Al-Ghazzali derived from the Qur’an and Sunnah five necessities that need to be sustained in order to ensure individual and social welfare and to stave of both unbearable hardship in this life and potential punishment in the hereafter. These are the following:

    1-Religion (freedom to practice)
    2-Life (Sanctity of Life)
    3-Intellect (uphold the power of reason, knowledge and education)
    4-Property (Guarantee security of assets)
    5- Lineage (Importance of family/children)

    Therefore, it can be seen that Islam enhances and refines life by establishing and protecting the essential human rights of people, while at the same time, seeking to assure that the individual does abuse rights of other people. The one who truly seeks to please his Creator, would not abuse another person’s rights, as that would be a crime against one’s own self, and to God who is also the creator of the person abused. It is God himself, who has ordained Human Rights, and Justice for the benefit of his creatures as it exemplifies his Mercy unto us all.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ibn Issam

    We prioritize the Roman ideal of the individual self, abstracted from community, seeking salvation through personal freedom from worldly bondage.
     
    "The lives of dogs and wolves are disparate," Rumi says in a poem, "United are the souls of the lions of the lord."
    , @Godfree Roberts
    Thanks heaps!! I've been wondering when someone would explain Islam's approach. Very helpful
    , @Anonymous
    It's a shame most Muslims are hypocrites.

    1-Religion (freedom to practice)
     
    ... except when the religion is not Islam.

    2-Life (Sanctity of Life)
     
    Death to those who defile Islam!

    3-Intellect (uphold the power of reason, knowledge and education)
     
    Islamic reasoning is based upon a huge ever shifting corpus of a priori recordings from way back when. Scientific discovery and technology are the fruits of intellect, and the Islamic world hasn't produced anything of note for about 600 years.

    4-Property (Guarantee security of assets)
     
    Didn't work so well for the Hindus and Sikhs in Pakistan.

    5- Lineage (Importance of family/children)
     
    Now if only they could focus on quality rather than quantity!

    I'm sorry to rip on your religion, but the hypocrisy is quite odorous. Everything can be made to look good on paper, but the test is the fruit it bares.
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  29. @Bucky

    China’s policy of liangshaoyikuan–charging and sentencing minorities more leniently for the same criminal offenses–and similar positive discrimination towards minorities compare favorably with America’s.
     
    You’re really going down this route? This is basically what BLM ultimately wants.

    He’s a bioleninist. Why wouldn’t he?

    Elsewhere in his article he states:

    Poor Chinese children outscore American children in PISA tests.

    Only a completely ignorant bioleninist would consider this fact noteworthy at all.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Bucky
    Is the article satire or sincere?
    , @Godfree Roberts
    You are aware of the predictive power of IQ scores taken at age 12, I assume?
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  30. FB says:
    @Pooh Bear 250
    I have lived in Mainland China for over a decade and have traveled extensively within China during this time. The bar graph near the top of this article is the most blatant lie I've ever seen in my life (which is saying a lot given the nature of US MSM today), and the only thing that amazes me more than the tendency of so many Chinese people to prop up a regime that abuses and oppresses them and leaves them no option but to live in filth and squalor is the tendency for so many from the West to believe their easily refuted lies. Like it has always been throughout history, China is as poor as fuck and is a filthy dump, including so-called modern cities such as Shanghai and Beijing. Chinese culture, as ever, remains a creepy blend of autism and sociopathy, filled to the brim with semi-conscious automatons, stammering around bumping into each other, incessantly screaming at each other about nonsense, failing to master the art of forming a line. Do not believe a word of what you read from Chinese propagandists or from US left-leaning media. The modernization, the rising economy, the supposed superior intelligence of the Chinese (ask people who've taught in China) -- it's all BS. There is a reason China is perpetually lagging behind, and if China doesn't pull its head out of its ass really soon and pay attention to reality, it's about to be FUBAR.

    You’re just a bullshit artiste…I seriously doubt you’ve ever stepped foot in the PRC…

    Provincialism is incredibly easy to spot…especially for people who have actually traveled the world…you’re not fooling anybody, except other hayseeds here who haven’t gone anywhere or seen anything…

    Like Mr. Roberts challenged you to do…please show some actual evidence for your claims…LOL…I think we’ll be waiting a long time for that…

    Read More
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  31. FB says:
    @jim jones
    Would you like to live in a Chinese house?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XopSDJq6w8E

    real ‘authoritative’ youtube video there…a couple of certified yahoos who go and find some dilapitaded building…like there aren’t all kinds like that in any city…does anyone even live there…I didn’t notice a single live Chinese person in that whole video…LOL…I guess all 1.4 billion of them must be hiding…

    Why not interview some of the people there…?…oh yeah…because then their fake BS would fall apart…

    And these certified yahoos are talking about building ‘standards’…funny I didn’t see their ciuvil engineering diplomas displayed in the video…LOL

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Ya .. he is a youtube attention whore. His situation must be pretty desperate because he seems willing to say anything for hits.
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  32. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Bardon Kaldian
    Personally, I don't believe in "I've lived 30 years ..." witnesses. So what? To form a valid, multifaceted view on a complex issue, one should possess a critical ability, largeness of mind, both intellectual elasticity & reliable mental framework- which is very rare.

    Other than that, one remains bogged down in trivialities:

    * the Chinese are old, self-reliant & somehow autistic race and culture. They're hyper-nationalists by Western standards.

    * they are basically copycats with flashes of originality.

    * being communal & ancient culture, they value conformity over individuality

    * good news: low rates of violent crime; bad news: they're boringly the same & you can't discern Ching from Chong. Chinese language will never be a lingua franca- except in east Asia.

    * they are developing with fast pace, but even if they were all at the level of Taiwan or Singapore- they will remain apart from the rest of the world. There is no enough universality in that culture, whether high or low, to become global (unlike Westerners in all their manifestations)

    * they will always be different form Europeans (any variety), and even more from Indians, Muslims (as "brown" race & culture), let alone Africans whom they have virtually nothing in common with

    The eternal Han is simply a different species from Occidens aeternus.

    GDP purchasing power parity per capita….yay China!

    64 Iran 20,030
    65 Mexico 19,480
    66 Lebanon 19,486
    67 Gabon 19,266
    68 Maldives 19,178
    69 Turkmenistan 18,680
    70 Belarus 18,616
    71 Botswana 18,146
    72 Thailand 17,786
    73 Barbados 17,508
    74 Montenegro 17,439
    75 Azerbaijan 17,433
    76 Costa Rica 17,149
    77 Iraq 17,004
    78 Dominican Republic 16,965
    79 China 16,624

    Also, it is a lot less fun than many of the basketcases that nonetheless have a higher average living standard.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    I get that a lot of people want to boost China as a way to criticise the West's policies, but better to stick with Japan.

    Factually China is a less than average productive country which manages to be even less than the sum of its parts.

    This type of argument reminds me of that made about the Soviet Union in the 70s by idiot socialists.

    The article is high nonsense. The elite Chinese version of the red pill is leaving their tier one city/tourist hotspot bubble for the first time and realising that the place is a mess. An improving mess with a huge (but proportionally small) elite but a mess nonetheless.

    An authoritarian government that obsesses over its image combined with a population that feels exactly the same way is not a recipe for clear-eyed appraisal.
    , @Tyrion 2
    These stats also flatter China's economy given that their working age population is almost at a once in a demographic transition peak and that their society is particularly commodified.
    , @Godfree Roberts
    Your point being, presumably, that if a country with a low GDP/capita can eliminate hunger, homelessness and poverty, then why can't we?

    I totally agree and suggest you ask your Congressman. Yeah, that's the ticket.
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  33. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Tyrion 2
    GDP purchasing power parity per capita....yay China!

    64 Iran 20,030
    65 Mexico 19,480
    66 Lebanon 19,486
    67 Gabon 19,266
    68 Maldives 19,178
    69 Turkmenistan 18,680
    70 Belarus 18,616
    71 Botswana 18,146
    72 Thailand 17,786
    73 Barbados 17,508
    74 Montenegro 17,439
    75 Azerbaijan 17,433
    76 Costa Rica 17,149
    77 Iraq 17,004
    78 Dominican Republic 16,965
    79 China 16,624

    Also, it is a lot less fun than many of the basketcases that nonetheless have a higher average living standard.

    I get that a lot of people want to boost China as a way to criticise the West’s policies, but better to stick with Japan.

    Factually China is a less than average productive country which manages to be even less than the sum of its parts.

    This type of argument reminds me of that made about the Soviet Union in the 70s by idiot socialists.

    The article is high nonsense. The elite Chinese version of the red pill is leaving their tier one city/tourist hotspot bubble for the first time and realising that the place is a mess. An improving mess with a huge (but proportionally small) elite but a mess nonetheless.

    An authoritarian government that obsesses over its image combined with a population that feels exactly the same way is not a recipe for clear-eyed appraisal.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    The West over self-criticises, especially the Anglosphere. China doesn't even have the skill. Anyone will be able to see all of the latter in the inevitable syntactically incorrect incoherent jingoistic nonsense that will follow my previous posts.
    , @FB
    LOL...like we care to hear from a silly little greenbeak who had to get dad's permission to even go to Israel on a free trip...LOL

    What the hell do you think you could contribute to any discussion with your vast 'experience'...?
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  34. Anonymous[570] • Disclaimer says:
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    This is such an ignorant comment as it conflates the pre-Christ Hebrews with the post-Christ Talmudic Jews.

    This is such an ignorant comment as it denies what the Jew Testament teaches: Christians are pathetic wannabee Jews. Who cares which of the many sects of Jew is the most embarrassing with which to be associated; all Jews are freakish genital-mutilators. Why would you too desire to be an honorary genital-mutilator?

    “For it is we [Christians] who are the Circumcision.” Philippians 3:3

    And it wasn’t the Talmudic variety of Jews who inspired Marx, it was Christian Jews.

    “Not one of them claimed that anything belonging to him was his own, but all things were common property to them…and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.” Acts 4:32-35

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  35. Bucky says:
    @Thorfinnsson
    He's a bioleninist. Why wouldn't he?

    Elsewhere in his article he states:

    Poor Chinese children outscore American children in PISA tests.
     
    Only a completely ignorant bioleninist would consider this fact noteworthy at all.

    Is the article satire or sincere?

    Read More
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  36. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Tyrion 2
    I get that a lot of people want to boost China as a way to criticise the West's policies, but better to stick with Japan.

    Factually China is a less than average productive country which manages to be even less than the sum of its parts.

    This type of argument reminds me of that made about the Soviet Union in the 70s by idiot socialists.

    The article is high nonsense. The elite Chinese version of the red pill is leaving their tier one city/tourist hotspot bubble for the first time and realising that the place is a mess. An improving mess with a huge (but proportionally small) elite but a mess nonetheless.

    An authoritarian government that obsesses over its image combined with a population that feels exactly the same way is not a recipe for clear-eyed appraisal.

    The West over self-criticises, especially the Anglosphere. China doesn’t even have the skill. Anyone will be able to see all of the latter in the inevitable syntactically incorrect incoherent jingoistic nonsense that will follow my previous posts.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    Never saw that problem. If anything, the West praises itself much more than it deserves. “Shining city on the hill” and the rest of this BS. You are joining the MSM chorus in this hypocritical self-praise. I wonder why?
    , @Art
    The West over self-criticises, especially the Anglosphere.

    Oh dear – oh my’ - who dares to criticize what the Jew Rothschilds own fare and square.

    It is all an anti-Jew anti-Semite plot – oh’ the suffering!

    Think Peace --- Do No Harm --- Art
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  37. DB Cooper says:

    On Point 7 Godfree touch on the point that China treats its minorities more generously than the majority but did not elaborate.

    Studies have shown that this is in fact the case.


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  38. Anonymous[570] • Disclaimer says:
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    This piece has some key ideas based in hogwash philosophy.

    First of all, the "Roman ideal" of a rootless individual is nonsense. Have you ever read actual Roman philosophy? They gave us the word "patria" for crying out loud. Roman people went over to the Catholic faith in large part because their pagan religions were unable to help them retain communal life during a period of great socioeconomic change and disorder.

    Second, it is wrong to state that Christianity removes the individual entirely from his patrimony. Traditional Christianity is a far more communal religion than you seem to think. There are almost countless examples of this in literature and non-leftist histories of medieval Europe, although my favorite is Chesterton's 'A Short History of England.'

    For evidence on the second point in Asia, I would merely cite the life of St. Francis Xavier. It took a clever mind like his to connect Christ to Asians, but once he did, conversions followed. Moreover, if China was indeed approaching some kind of synthesis between its Confucian past and its recent history, it would no doubt see such a need to persecute the underground (i.e. real) Chinese Catholic Church with the help of Marxist running dog Jorge Bergoglio, aka "Pope Francis."

    Perhaps you're one to say the authorities must persecute Christians because they represent a threat to ancient Chinese values. I doubt that. I think it's because China's government is still much more consumerist and materalist in its economic ways than any healthy state has any right to be.

    (And, mind you, I am an American who utterly despises modern America, so I have no qualms about American impressions of China being wrong.)

    The Romans did give us the word “patria” — which the Jewish Rabbi Jesus denounced.

    “Call no man your Πατὴρ [patre].” (Matthew 23:9)

    Jesus went further to denounce Roman (Gentile) white patriarchy in Matthew 20:25, Mark 10:42, and Luke 22:25 Jesus was the original Antifa fanatic. For good reason, the Chinese realize that Jews aren’t good news for ancient Chinese values.

    You are correct in observing Traditional Christianity is a far more communal religion, as Karl Marx lifted his famous maxim nearly word-for-word from a couple passages found within the Jew Testament.

    Jew Testament:
    • “each according to his ability” (MT 25:15)
    • “all things were common property to them…and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need” (Acts 4:32,35)

    Jew Marx:
    “From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.”

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  39. FB says:
    @Tyrion 2
    I get that a lot of people want to boost China as a way to criticise the West's policies, but better to stick with Japan.

    Factually China is a less than average productive country which manages to be even less than the sum of its parts.

    This type of argument reminds me of that made about the Soviet Union in the 70s by idiot socialists.

    The article is high nonsense. The elite Chinese version of the red pill is leaving their tier one city/tourist hotspot bubble for the first time and realising that the place is a mess. An improving mess with a huge (but proportionally small) elite but a mess nonetheless.

    An authoritarian government that obsesses over its image combined with a population that feels exactly the same way is not a recipe for clear-eyed appraisal.

    LOL…like we care to hear from a silly little greenbeak who had to get dad’s permission to even go to Israel on a free trip…LOL

    What the hell do you think you could contribute to any discussion with your vast ‘experience’…?

    Read More
    • Troll: Tyrion 2
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  40. The concern of the West about human rights always was and still is a ruse for the gullible. In fact, it is an epitome of hypocrisy of self-appointed “democratic” countries. The West along with Saudis and other Gulf satrapies sponsored Al-Qaida and ISIS. They also sponsored and armed Nour al-Din al-Zenki in Syria, calling it a “moderate” group, even though these particular bandits beheaded a Palestinian boy on camera (description and the video of that heinous crime is here: https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/aleppo-rebels-behead-a-child/). “Democratic” countries keep selling tons of weapons to Saudis engaged in genocide in Yemen and brutal suppression of human rights at home. In fact, KSA is just as extreme and guilty as ISIS, but it is called “our ally in the ME”. “Democratic” countries don’t give a hoot when their puppets in Ukraine torture prisoners, or when IDF shoots Palestinians. Those “defenders of human rights” murdered hundreds of thousands of civilians in Iraq and tens of thousands in Afghanistan, not to mention their wholesale slaughter of civilians in Vietnam and Korea, as well as in Germany and Japan before that.

    I am not saying that everything is perfect with human rights in China, or Iran, or Syria, or even Russia. What I am saying is that kettle does not have the right to call any pot black.

    Read More
    • Agree: Biff
    • Replies: @FB
    You left out some good historical examples...the phrase 'concentration camp' first came into use during the genocidal British war against the mainly Dutch Boer farmers of South Africa...where they rounded up women and children and starved to death over 25,000 in these death camps...

    https://s20.postimg.cc/lasz20ol9/Lizzie_Van_Zyl.jpg


    Lizzie van Zyl a Boer child, visited by Emily Hobhouse in a British concentration camp...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_concentration_camps
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  41. DB Cooper says:
    @Pooh Bear 250
    I have lived in Mainland China for over a decade and have traveled extensively within China during this time. The bar graph near the top of this article is the most blatant lie I've ever seen in my life (which is saying a lot given the nature of US MSM today), and the only thing that amazes me more than the tendency of so many Chinese people to prop up a regime that abuses and oppresses them and leaves them no option but to live in filth and squalor is the tendency for so many from the West to believe their easily refuted lies. Like it has always been throughout history, China is as poor as fuck and is a filthy dump, including so-called modern cities such as Shanghai and Beijing. Chinese culture, as ever, remains a creepy blend of autism and sociopathy, filled to the brim with semi-conscious automatons, stammering around bumping into each other, incessantly screaming at each other about nonsense, failing to master the art of forming a line. Do not believe a word of what you read from Chinese propagandists or from US left-leaning media. The modernization, the rising economy, the supposed superior intelligence of the Chinese (ask people who've taught in China) -- it's all BS. There is a reason China is perpetually lagging behind, and if China doesn't pull its head out of its ass really soon and pay attention to reality, it's about to be FUBAR.

    If you go to YouTube and do a search there are tons of vlog posted by expats about their lives in China. These vlogs show not only cities like Beijing or Shanghai but smaller cities or even the boonies. Some are English teachers on short stay, some married into Chinese families and lives there for decades. None of these vlogs show anything in common with what you said. You are a liar.

    Obviously this article reveal a China that is not as bad as the MSM would like us to have believed and this bother you. My question is why?

    Read More
    • Agree: FB
    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    Because, just like Western MSM, this Pooh Bear would never let the reality stand in the way of propaganda.
    , @FB
    Simple answer is 'pooh bear' is full of shit...he's never stepped foot inside China...that's obvious to anyone...

    As to 'why' this troll suddenly appears...because he happens to work for a troll farm...
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  42. @Tyrion 2
    The West over self-criticises, especially the Anglosphere. China doesn't even have the skill. Anyone will be able to see all of the latter in the inevitable syntactically incorrect incoherent jingoistic nonsense that will follow my previous posts.

    Never saw that problem. If anything, the West praises itself much more than it deserves. “Shining city on the hill” and the rest of this BS. You are joining the MSM chorus in this hypocritical self-praise. I wonder why?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    You think a Jew saying that the West is overly self-critical equals "hypocritical self-praise"?
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  43. @DB Cooper
    If you go to YouTube and do a search there are tons of vlog posted by expats about their lives in China. These vlogs show not only cities like Beijing or Shanghai but smaller cities or even the boonies. Some are English teachers on short stay, some married into Chinese families and lives there for decades. None of these vlogs show anything in common with what you said. You are a liar.

    Obviously this article reveal a China that is not as bad as the MSM would like us to have believed and this bother you. My question is why?

    Because, just like Western MSM, this Pooh Bear would never let the reality stand in the way of propaganda.

    Read More
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  44. Vidi says:
    @Pooh Bear 250
    I have lived in Mainland China for over a decade and have traveled extensively within China during this time. The bar graph near the top of this article is the most blatant lie I've ever seen in my life (which is saying a lot given the nature of US MSM today), and the only thing that amazes me more than the tendency of so many Chinese people to prop up a regime that abuses and oppresses them and leaves them no option but to live in filth and squalor is the tendency for so many from the West to believe their easily refuted lies. Like it has always been throughout history, China is as poor as fuck and is a filthy dump, including so-called modern cities such as Shanghai and Beijing. Chinese culture, as ever, remains a creepy blend of autism and sociopathy, filled to the brim with semi-conscious automatons, stammering around bumping into each other, incessantly screaming at each other about nonsense, failing to master the art of forming a line. Do not believe a word of what you read from Chinese propagandists or from US left-leaning media. The modernization, the rising economy, the supposed superior intelligence of the Chinese (ask people who've taught in China) -- it's all BS. There is a reason China is perpetually lagging behind, and if China doesn't pull its head out of its ass really soon and pay attention to reality, it's about to be FUBAR.

    I have lived in Mainland China for over a decade. [Lots of trash talk deleted]

    When did you live in China? In 1950, right after a civil war destroyed much of the country?

    Read More
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  45. FB says:
    @AnonFromTN
    The concern of the West about human rights always was and still is a ruse for the gullible. In fact, it is an epitome of hypocrisy of self-appointed “democratic” countries. The West along with Saudis and other Gulf satrapies sponsored Al-Qaida and ISIS. They also sponsored and armed Nour al-Din al-Zenki in Syria, calling it a “moderate” group, even though these particular bandits beheaded a Palestinian boy on camera (description and the video of that heinous crime is here: https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/aleppo-rebels-behead-a-child/). “Democratic” countries keep selling tons of weapons to Saudis engaged in genocide in Yemen and brutal suppression of human rights at home. In fact, KSA is just as extreme and guilty as ISIS, but it is called “our ally in the ME”. “Democratic” countries don’t give a hoot when their puppets in Ukraine torture prisoners, or when IDF shoots Palestinians. Those “defenders of human rights” murdered hundreds of thousands of civilians in Iraq and tens of thousands in Afghanistan, not to mention their wholesale slaughter of civilians in Vietnam and Korea, as well as in Germany and Japan before that.

    I am not saying that everything is perfect with human rights in China, or Iran, or Syria, or even Russia. What I am saying is that kettle does not have the right to call any pot black.

    You left out some good historical examples…the phrase ‘concentration camp’ first came into use during the genocidal British war against the mainly Dutch Boer farmers of South Africa…where they rounded up women and children and starved to death over 25,000 in these death camps…

    Lizzie van Zyl a Boer child, visited by Emily Hobhouse in a British concentration camp…

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_concentration_camps

    Read More
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  46. FB says:
    @DB Cooper
    If you go to YouTube and do a search there are tons of vlog posted by expats about their lives in China. These vlogs show not only cities like Beijing or Shanghai but smaller cities or even the boonies. Some are English teachers on short stay, some married into Chinese families and lives there for decades. None of these vlogs show anything in common with what you said. You are a liar.

    Obviously this article reveal a China that is not as bad as the MSM would like us to have believed and this bother you. My question is why?

    Simple answer is ‘pooh bear’ is full of shit…he’s never stepped foot inside China…that’s obvious to anyone…

    As to ‘why’ this troll suddenly appears…because he happens to work for a troll farm…

    Read More
    • Replies: @DB Cooper
    Pooh Bear is obviously full of shit but I am interested in the psychology behind it because he starts out by saying how abusive and oppressive the government is to its people and then meander into denigrating the Chinese people as semi-conscious automatons. I don't get the logic behind it because if I hear a people being abused and oppressed my natural instinct is to empathize with those people instead of launching a diatribe against them.

    I suspect Pooh Bear is from a people who are butt hurt and jealous of China the country and the Chinese people and this is the only way he can express himself.

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  47. Tyrion 2 says:
    @AnonFromTN
    Never saw that problem. If anything, the West praises itself much more than it deserves. “Shining city on the hill” and the rest of this BS. You are joining the MSM chorus in this hypocritical self-praise. I wonder why?

    You think a Jew saying that the West is overly self-critical equals “hypocritical self-praise”?

    Read More
    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    If I were you, I would go by the hard facts, rather than by what any Jew (or Christian, or Muslim, or Buddhist, for that matter) says. As the American saying goes, talk is cheap.
    , @denk

    You think a Jew saying that the West is overly self-critical equals “hypocritical self-praise”?
     
    How about bald faced liar ?
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  48. Vidi says:
    @James Solbakken
    God-Free here has stated previously that Mao did more good for people than anyone else in history. That would be true in the sense that Mao personally sent more people immediately to heaven than anyone else in history.

    I think we're being trolled. Nobody thinks China is anything else besides a miserable totalitarian excrement hole, and it will be such until the CCP is overthrown and all its leaders are sent to hell where they belong.

    God-Free here has stated previously that Mao did more good for people than anyone else in history. That would be true in the sense that Mao personally sent more people immediately to heaven than anyone else in history.

    Did you actually read Godfree’s article? China’s population actually increased during the Great Leap Forward.

    Read More
    • Replies: @James Solbakken
    "Did you actually read Godfree’s article? China’s population actually increased during the Great Leap Forward."

    Did I say the population went down? No. Just because Mao couldn't murder them faster than they were being born does not mean he was a good guy.

    The Great Leap Forward was only one segment of Mao's 4 decade reign of terror. But I will admit that the violence is not really about Mao, per se, as it were, but rather about the wickedness of his communist Marxist philosophy. He believed, like ever Marxist, that expropriation and redistribution were good methods for running the world. The truth is expropriation and redistribution are evil and wicked and lead to catastrophic suffering for the average person. But not much suffering for the typical apparatchik, of course.
    , @Jaylon
    Either he did not read it, or he is fact- resistant. It is obvious that there are many fact resistant commentors here, including those who like to invent their own facts like " i have lived a decade in China..." types.
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  49. Ibn Issam says:
    @Ibn Issam
    Although I have many criticisms of my own about China, it is still interesting and eye-opening to see the comparison with U.S.A.

    “Christian-based Western values like radical autonomy of the individual, the soul in a transcendent relationship to the world, the prioritizing of the individual over the family and the prioritizing of the individual over the state are alien to the Chinese.”
     
    This reminds me of Max Weber’s studies on the Protestant Reformation and the rise of Capitalism. The Christian ideal of individual spirit and elevation of the self above all else and all others has been extremely detrimental to western culture and society. I think that the western ideals about human rights are foreign to most traditional societies. Although Traditional societies, cultures, civilizations may not be in fundamental disagreement with the idea of human rights, there is still a core disagreement on what human rights are based upon or what authority they are derived from.


    Premier Wen Jiabao said, “Science, democracy, rule of law, freedom and human rights are not concepts unique to capitalism. Rather, they are common values pursued by all mankind throughout history: the fruits of human civilization. It is only that–at different historical stages and in different countries–they are achieved through different means and in different forms”.

     

    This statement by Premier Jibao is very accurate and holds true for Islamic civilization as well. Although I would acknowledge that there are many human rights abuses in various Muslim majority countries, and that many Muslims today have acted less than exemplary. I would say that this is largely due to not implementing Islam in the most proper and beneficial ways as it was implemented historically.

    Fundamental Human Rights are enshrined in Islamic Law. Indeed, one of the great scholars of Islam Ibn al-Qayyim (d. 1350) once said that, “the Islam in its entirety is justice, mercy and benefit. So if any issue that leads from justice to injustice, or mercy to its opposite, or benefit to harm, then it is NOT from Islam, even if someone thought that it is.” So the collective aim of Islam and Islamic Law is to facilitate Justice, peace, and benefit for humanity in this life and in the hereafter. This includes an assurance of social welfare and well-being.

    In Islamic tradition the individual has responsibilities toward his family, community, tribe, nation, co-religionists, humanity in general, and ultimately to Almighty God Allah, who mandates human rights for all mankind. So in Islam, human rights are grounded in God’s religion, and the well-being of the individual is closely connected to the greater community and the good works of charity, kindness, mercy and selfless service to other people. While Islam maintains the equality of all people, it is made clear that God Judges between us based on our piety, which should motivate us to compete in doing good works, and which engenders positive and beneficial service to others in the community. Each individual has basic Human rights which help assure his welfare, but which also do not violate the rights of the community, or cross the boundaries laid out by God.

    The great Islamic philosopher, scholar, and theologian Al-Ghazzali derived from the Qur’an and Sunnah five necessities that need to be sustained in order to ensure individual and social welfare and to stave of both unbearable hardship in this life and potential punishment in the hereafter. These are the following:

    1-Religion (freedom to practice)
    2-Life (Sanctity of Life)
    3-Intellect (uphold the power of reason, knowledge and education)
    4-Property (Guarantee security of assets)
    5- Lineage (Importance of family/children)

    Therefore, it can be seen that Islam enhances and refines life by establishing and protecting the essential human rights of people, while at the same time, seeking to assure that the individual does abuse rights of other people. The one who truly seeks to please his Creator, would not abuse another person’s rights, as that would be a crime against one’s own self, and to God who is also the creator of the person abused. It is God himself, who has ordained Human Rights, and Justice for the benefit of his creatures as it exemplifies his Mercy unto us all.

    We prioritize the Roman ideal of the individual self, abstracted from community, seeking salvation through personal freedom from worldly bondage.

    “The lives of dogs and wolves are disparate,” Rumi says in a poem, “United are the souls of the lions of the lord.”

    Read More
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  50. @Pooh Bear 250
    I have lived in Mainland China for over a decade and have traveled extensively within China during this time. The bar graph near the top of this article is the most blatant lie I've ever seen in my life (which is saying a lot given the nature of US MSM today), and the only thing that amazes me more than the tendency of so many Chinese people to prop up a regime that abuses and oppresses them and leaves them no option but to live in filth and squalor is the tendency for so many from the West to believe their easily refuted lies. Like it has always been throughout history, China is as poor as fuck and is a filthy dump, including so-called modern cities such as Shanghai and Beijing. Chinese culture, as ever, remains a creepy blend of autism and sociopathy, filled to the brim with semi-conscious automatons, stammering around bumping into each other, incessantly screaming at each other about nonsense, failing to master the art of forming a line. Do not believe a word of what you read from Chinese propagandists or from US left-leaning media. The modernization, the rising economy, the supposed superior intelligence of the Chinese (ask people who've taught in China) -- it's all BS. There is a reason China is perpetually lagging behind, and if China doesn't pull its head out of its ass really soon and pay attention to reality, it's about to be FUBAR.

    Someone who visited China once told me that it was very common there for women to hold their infants above public trash cans to let them relieve themselves. This wasn’t in some backwater berg either, it was in Shanghai.

    Read More
    • Replies: @DB Cooper
    Infants have no control of their bladder. If dogs can relieve themselves in the public why not infants? Isn't the West is huge in human rights so what about this cruelty to infants that they have to abide to the norms of an adult?

    In the West having the infants relieve themselves in the public is a social faux pas but Chinese obviously don't see it that way and for good reasons and we should respect that. The problem with you is that you see everything in the West as the standard and every deviation from it an aberration that needs to be corrected. That is the problem.

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  51. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:

    When I went to China, one thing that surprised me was how inexpensive the food was. Not only for an American using dollars but also for the average Chinese. Besides brick and mortar restaurants, there were also a lot of street vendors selling food everywhere.

    Contrast that to America, where almost all eating is done inside at restaurants and you are expected to tip an outrageous 20%. We have cheap fast food restaurants but I wouldn’t even call that food.

    A big difference with the West is how expensive our real estate is and how over regulated we are. The high commercial prices mean restaurants have to either cut corners or pass through costs to the consumer. Even cheap places like Mexican food can easily cost $20. Also, we are so regulated in the west street vendors have pretty much all been driven out.

    As China has a real estate bubble of their own to deal with, maybe they will see similar issues of people not being able to afford to eat.

    Read More
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  52. DB Cooper says:
    @Hapalong Cassidy
    Someone who visited China once told me that it was very common there for women to hold their infants above public trash cans to let them relieve themselves. This wasn’t in some backwater berg either, it was in Shanghai.

    Infants have no control of their bladder. If dogs can relieve themselves in the public why not infants? Isn’t the West is huge in human rights so what about this cruelty to infants that they have to abide to the norms of an adult?

    In the West having the infants relieve themselves in the public is a social faux pas but Chinese obviously don’t see it that way and for good reasons and we should respect that. The problem with you is that you see everything in the West as the standard and every deviation from it an aberration that needs to be corrected. That is the problem.

    Read More
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  53. Bill says:
    @Godfree Roberts
    I've been visiting China since 1967, live an hour from the SW border and travel there several times a year, mostly to verify charts like the one in the article.

    I go to remote, Tier 2 or Tier 3 cities and inventory their infrastructure: does it match what a city of that size needs? How much construction is going on (of course), and the mood and physical cues of everyone I meet–their clothing, grooming, responsiveness, interactions with others, etc.

    I talk to less fortunate folks, like single mothers with illegitimate children, chamber maids and vendors. I talk to local expats–all readily accessible through their local clubs online–and see if their observations agree with mine.

    So far, everything checks out.

    What's more, everything I see matches what you would infer from studying reports by the WTO, IMF, World Bank, foreign and local patent offices, trade figures, UN rapporteurs' and RAND reports.

    What, specifically did you see that occasioned your doubt? Where did you see it? When? Do you have an image or other evidence we can see?

    So far, everything checks out.

    Are the poor Chinese who allegedly do have enough to eat more or less obese than the poor Americans who allegedly do not have enough to eat?

    Read More
    • Agree: Tyrion 2
    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
    I've been walking around downtown San Francisco lately, stepping over sleeping people and smelling their urine everywhere.

    Funny thing, not one was obese. Weird, huh?
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  54. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Tyrion 2
    GDP purchasing power parity per capita....yay China!

    64 Iran 20,030
    65 Mexico 19,480
    66 Lebanon 19,486
    67 Gabon 19,266
    68 Maldives 19,178
    69 Turkmenistan 18,680
    70 Belarus 18,616
    71 Botswana 18,146
    72 Thailand 17,786
    73 Barbados 17,508
    74 Montenegro 17,439
    75 Azerbaijan 17,433
    76 Costa Rica 17,149
    77 Iraq 17,004
    78 Dominican Republic 16,965
    79 China 16,624

    Also, it is a lot less fun than many of the basketcases that nonetheless have a higher average living standard.

    These stats also flatter China’s economy given that their working age population is almost at a once in a demographic transition peak and that their society is particularly commodified.

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  55. Art says:
    @Godfree Roberts
    I've been visiting China since 1967, live an hour from the SW border and travel there several times a year, mostly to verify charts like the one in the article.

    I go to remote, Tier 2 or Tier 3 cities and inventory their infrastructure: does it match what a city of that size needs? How much construction is going on (of course), and the mood and physical cues of everyone I meet–their clothing, grooming, responsiveness, interactions with others, etc.

    I talk to less fortunate folks, like single mothers with illegitimate children, chamber maids and vendors. I talk to local expats–all readily accessible through their local clubs online–and see if their observations agree with mine.

    So far, everything checks out.

    What's more, everything I see matches what you would infer from studying reports by the WTO, IMF, World Bank, foreign and local patent offices, trade figures, UN rapporteurs' and RAND reports.

    What, specifically did you see that occasioned your doubt? Where did you see it? When? Do you have an image or other evidence we can see?

    For the last 1,000 years the Chinese have been practicing Confusion philosophy, and have starved.

    The West has been practicing Christian philosophy, and has thrived.

    Today the Chinese have stolen what the West created, and they are doing very well. Within decades the Chinese will return to their old ways, and the golden goose of the West’s thinking will be crushed. It is already happening. The commie party with its for life dictator are ever more crushing dissent.

    Most all the bad things that this article says about America are true. America is in a dark place. Its Western values have been supplanted with Jew coercion. Greedy narcistic Jew individualism has overtaken the Wests sense of responsible community.

    Christianity will come back and defeat the Jews.

    Think Peace — Do No Harm — Art

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    • Replies: @Ibn Issam

    The West has been practicing Christian philosophy, and has thrived.
     
    The secular West has not thrived because of Christian Philosophy, but rather in spite of it.
    , @Anonymous
    Famines are just as much a part of "Christendom" as of China. In fact, right after the dominant religion of the Roman Empire became Christianity, the "West" was swiftly rewarded with 400 years of incessant famines.

    Date: 400–800 AD
    Event: Various famines in Western Europe associated with the Fall of the Western Roman Empire and its sack by Alaric I. Between 400 and 800 AD, the population of the city of Rome fell by over 90%, mainly because of famine and plague.[6]
    Location: Western Europe

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famines
     


    Christianity will come back and defeat the Jews
    , say you? Are Christians going to defeat themselves?

    • "Inside every Christian is a Jew." -The Pope
    • Philippians 3:3: "For we are the Circumcision." -Jew Testament


    Art: Greedy narcistic Jew individualism has overtaken the Wests sense of responsible community.
     
    You got that right! Let's blame who is to blame - the Rabbi Jesus. He taught to "hate" your blood and kinsmen (Luke 14:26) and "forsake" your native soil (Matthew 19:27-30), while chasing hyper-individualized "salvation." Note how salvation is for individuals only, and the Great Evangilizer's goal is to actually tear apart society.

    Jesus: "Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law."

    Luke 12:51-53
     

    The Chinese are right in tearing down this insane Jew's cult gathering buildings.
    , @AnonFromTN
    The West practiced Christian philosophy and thrived for the last 1,000 years? If there were a Nobel prize for the BS, you’d be the winner!

    The great majority of the population in the West starved until very recently. The first glimmer of hope of feeding people sufficiently appeared during Renaissance, after the West shook off much of the Christian philosophy that dominated (some might say engendered) the Dark Ages. The last mass starvation in the West followed WWII. So, Chinese mass starvation during Cultural Revolution was only 20 years later.

    Any other historical news you’d like to impart?
    , @Godfree Roberts
    Let's discuss your points one at a time:

    1. For the last 1,000 years the Chinese have been practicing Confusion philosophy, and have starved. That's why there are 1.4 billion of them, presumably, still practicing Confucian philosophy, of course. Their serious starvation problems started 250 years ago–when we showed up.

    2. The West has been practicing Christian philosophy, and has thrived. Seven, is it? Seven wars the West is waging right now? While it has more homeless, hungry and imprisoned people than China?

    3. Today the Chinese have stolen what the West created, and they are doing very well. One percent, at most, of China's IP is of doubtful provenance. The rest is indigenous or licensed. Check the TRIPS court records. Nicholas Lardy of the Peterson Institute of International Economics points out, “China’s payments of licensing fees and royalties for the use of foreign technology have soared in recent years, reaching almost $30 billion last year, nearly a four-fold increase over the last decade.” In fact, Lardy continues, “China probably ranks second globally in the magnitude of licensing fees paid for technology used within national borders.” https://piie.com/newsroom/short-videos/how-much-china-paying-foreign-technology
    , @denk

    The West has been practicing Christian philosophy, and has thrived.
     
    Indeed,
    On the corpse of plundered countries.

    Uncle scam is entirely secular,
    it'll bomb its own mother if there's money to be made.
    Never mind fellow xtians.

    http://emperors-clothes.com/churchpics/list.htm
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  56. @Pooh Bear 250
    I have lived in Mainland China for over a decade and have traveled extensively within China during this time. The bar graph near the top of this article is the most blatant lie I've ever seen in my life (which is saying a lot given the nature of US MSM today), and the only thing that amazes me more than the tendency of so many Chinese people to prop up a regime that abuses and oppresses them and leaves them no option but to live in filth and squalor is the tendency for so many from the West to believe their easily refuted lies. Like it has always been throughout history, China is as poor as fuck and is a filthy dump, including so-called modern cities such as Shanghai and Beijing. Chinese culture, as ever, remains a creepy blend of autism and sociopathy, filled to the brim with semi-conscious automatons, stammering around bumping into each other, incessantly screaming at each other about nonsense, failing to master the art of forming a line. Do not believe a word of what you read from Chinese propagandists or from US left-leaning media. The modernization, the rising economy, the supposed superior intelligence of the Chinese (ask people who've taught in China) -- it's all BS. There is a reason China is perpetually lagging behind, and if China doesn't pull its head out of its ass really soon and pay attention to reality, it's about to be FUBAR.

    Cool story bro

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  57. Anonymous[317] • Disclaimer says:
    @James Solbakken
    God-Free here has stated previously that Mao did more good for people than anyone else in history. That would be true in the sense that Mao personally sent more people immediately to heaven than anyone else in history.

    I think we're being trolled. Nobody thinks China is anything else besides a miserable totalitarian excrement hole, and it will be such until the CCP is overthrown and all its leaders are sent to hell where they belong.

    Hell, say you? Slopes aren’t welcome in the Nordic underworld realm of Loki’s half-dead daughter Hell, where we Ice People who have completed our life’s journey on the Highway to Hell, i.e., Helvegr, will…

    …spend their time doing the same kinds of things that Viking Age men and women did: eating, drinking, fighting, sleeping, and so forth. It wasn’t a place of eternal bliss or torment as much as it was simply a continuation of life somewhere else.

    http://norse-mythology.org/cosmology/the-nine-worlds/helheim/

    Of course, the Jew-worshiping Christians believe that their own ancestor’s myths of Hell are something to be mocked, which is good reason for the Chinese to tear down Christian churches, if only to keep their own people from becoming as Jew-addled as the Kike-wannabees who comprise the “West.”

    Loki wept.

    曾祖父 won’t.

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    • Replies: @James Solbakken
    "which is good reason for the Chinese to tear down Christian churches, if only to keep their own people from becoming as Jew-addled as the Kike-wannabees who comprise the “ West .” "

    Gee, you seem to be oblivious to the fact that the Chinese are the most Jew-addled people who ever lived, because Communism is a kike philosophy. Whereas in contrast the kikes hate Christ and Christianity and always have hated it since its inception. If you were not a drooling retard you would know this. Nice try, though, do spin again.

    Especially nice of you to call your ideological fathers "kikes." How ironic.
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  58. @Godfree Roberts
    I've been visiting China since 1967, live an hour from the SW border and travel there several times a year, mostly to verify charts like the one in the article.

    I go to remote, Tier 2 or Tier 3 cities and inventory their infrastructure: does it match what a city of that size needs? How much construction is going on (of course), and the mood and physical cues of everyone I meet–their clothing, grooming, responsiveness, interactions with others, etc.

    I talk to less fortunate folks, like single mothers with illegitimate children, chamber maids and vendors. I talk to local expats–all readily accessible through their local clubs online–and see if their observations agree with mine.

    So far, everything checks out.

    What's more, everything I see matches what you would infer from studying reports by the WTO, IMF, World Bank, foreign and local patent offices, trade figures, UN rapporteurs' and RAND reports.

    What, specifically did you see that occasioned your doubt? Where did you see it? When? Do you have an image or other evidence we can see?

    I remember the “squalor” of China in 2009. The pollution was always an issue and outside my apartment, there were newly destroyed buildings for probable reconstruction. Laws being what they were and unclear ownership, quite a few people were scavenging among the rubble for metal that I presume they later sold. There was something about the efficiency to it, though, that is hard to forget – by the time they were finished, and I assume some work crews came, it was actually clean and ready for the next construction.

    I remember the work crews sitting in great numbers on the grass, and how canteen food was brought to them at lunch: a bowl of soup and a bun for each. Simple, and for a Western consideration, pretty harsh – but hardly terrible. Oh yeah, and evidently they could form a queue. I remember the lights of welders going day in, day out. I remember entire new buildings created in a week’s time. I’m sure with the safety conditions being what they were, more died than what we would find acceptable.

    There is was a hardness to life then, for many. But things got done, and as hard as life was for them, the word “squalor” isn’t quite right. They had jobs, homes, and hopes. Perhaps entertaining was more plain – I remember some of them listening to a dramatic rendition of Romance of Three Kingdoms on the radio, or a bit more alcoholism on the weekends than ideal with the fiery baijiu, but these were not, on the whole, “miserable, oppressed people.”

    These days, much of that has gone away for smartphones and e-bikes and stupid status signaling. Life is overall better. But I think its worth noting that even when it wasn’t, its hardly the disaster that some propagandists want to portray.

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  59. Vidi says:

    For the last 1,000 years the Chinese have been practicing Confusion [sic] philosophy, and have starved.

    The West has been practicing Christian philosophy, and has thrived.

    China wasn’t more prosperous than the West for most of the last 1000 years? I think Marco Polo would strongly disagree with you.

    Today the Chinese have stolen what the West created

    Bought, not stolen. No one forced American corporations to do business in China. The price of making giant profits was that they had to transfer technology, but that was purely voluntary — the corps were totally free to stay away.

    Yes, China may have stolen some minor bits of technology, but every country has done that — emphatically including the U.S.

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  60. FKA Max says: • Website
    @Anon
    Blacks and 'white trash' are fatsos who blow their money on bling.

    Personally, I’m not too worried about the poor in the U.S. going hungry either:

    Poverty and Obesity in the U.S.

    Are poverty and obesity associated? Poverty rates and obesity were reviewed across 3,139 counties in the U.S. (2,6). In contrast to international trends, people in America who live in the most poverty-dense counties are those most prone to obesity (Fig. 1A). Counties with poverty rates of >35% have obesity rates 145% greater than wealthy counties.

    http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/60/11/2667

    FIG. 1.

    Data from 3,139 counties in the U.S. Quintiles are cohorts of counties ranked by the percentage of people living with poverty. Quintile 1, the wealthiest quintile, includes 630 U.S. counties with a mean county poverty rate of 8.2% (median household income, $56,259). Quintile 5, the poorest quintile, includes 629 counties with a mean poverty rate of 25% (median household income, $32,679). A: County age-adjusted obesity rates by poverty quintile. B: County obesity rates vs. county leisure-time sedentary rates (sedentary adults are those who report no physical activity or exercise other than at their regular job). C: County sedentary rates. D: Age-adjusted diabetes rate by poverty quintile.

    Obesity rate will reach nearly 50% by 2030 in the U.S., says OEC

    Source: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-us-is-the-most-obese-nation-in-the-world-just-ahead-of-mexico-2017-05-19

    Read More
    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    Puff, puff....

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/benjaminshobert/2017/01/22/chinas-growing-obesity-problem/#6b5e38c56ecf

    These days, it seems China is beating America at almost everything.

    Take obesity: A recent study published shows that China can now lay claim to having a greater percentage of obese men and women than in the United States.

    Perhaps Americans can take solace with the realization that China’s success has only come on the heels of Western fast food chains penetrating a domestic Chinese market.
    , @FKA Max
    Typo: Obesity rate will reach nearly 50% by 2030 in the U.S., says *OECD*

    Racial and Ethnic Disparities in Obesity

    Among U.S. adults, Black and Latino populations have substantially higher rates of obesity than do White populations. This is true among both men and women. - https://stateofobesity.org/disparities/

    https://www.bu.edu/sph/files/2016/10/obesity4.png

    Figure 4. Current Obesity & Overweight Rates Among Adults by Race and Ethnicity (2011—2012). Special Report: Racial and Ethnic Disparities in Obesity. The State of Obesity Web site. http://stateofobesity.org/disparities/. Accessed October 3, 2016.

    Source: https://www.bu.edu/sph/2016/10/09/meeting-the-challenge-of-obesity/


    More than 15 million U.S. children live in "food-insecure" households — having limited access to adequate food and nutrition due to cost, proximity and/or other resources.1 Low income individuals are at increased risk for both food insecurity and obesity.
    - https://stateofobesity.org/food-insecurity/
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  61. DB Cooper says:
    @FB
    Simple answer is 'pooh bear' is full of shit...he's never stepped foot inside China...that's obvious to anyone...

    As to 'why' this troll suddenly appears...because he happens to work for a troll farm...

    Pooh Bear is obviously full of shit but I am interested in the psychology behind it because he starts out by saying how abusive and oppressive the government is to its people and then meander into denigrating the Chinese people as semi-conscious automatons. I don’t get the logic behind it because if I hear a people being abused and oppressed my natural instinct is to empathize with those people instead of launching a diatribe against them.

    I suspect Pooh Bear is from a people who are butt hurt and jealous of China the country and the Chinese people and this is the only way he can express himself.

    Read More
    • Replies: @DB Cooper
    Here is a clip showing Pooh Bear doing his thing. Go to 0:23, the guy with a purple shirt and green pant is Pooh Bear.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLgIQYbsNGU
    , @AnonFromTN
    You might be right. The most butt hurt about China country is India. They used to be near-peer rivals, but now China is so much ahead that it does not even notice India most of the time, unless Putin points them to it. Indians are jealous. The second most butt hurt country is the US.
    , @FB
    I think it's much simpler than that...that was 'pooh bear's' very first post on this site...obviously a troll farm worker...I recognize them here all the time...they always have no commenting history, or very little and they jump on subject-specific issues...and then just as quickly disappear...
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  62. Ibn Issam says:
    @Art
    For the last 1,000 years the Chinese have been practicing Confusion philosophy, and have starved.

    The West has been practicing Christian philosophy, and has thrived.

    Today the Chinese have stolen what the West created, and they are doing very well. Within decades the Chinese will return to their old ways, and the golden goose of the West’s thinking will be crushed. It is already happening. The commie party with its for life dictator are ever more crushing dissent.

    Most all the bad things that this article says about America are true. America is in a dark place. Its Western values have been supplanted with Jew coercion. Greedy narcistic Jew individualism has overtaken the Wests sense of responsible community.

    Christianity will come back and defeat the Jews.

    Think Peace --- Do No Harm --- Art

    The West has been practicing Christian philosophy, and has thrived.

    The secular West has not thrived because of Christian Philosophy, but rather in spite of it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art

    The West has been practicing Christian philosophy, and has thrived.

    The secular West has not thrived because of Christian Philosophy, but rather in spite of it.
     
    That is ridiculous – Western science came out of Christian universities that abounded in Western nations, with Christian philosophies. Western medicine came out of Christian hospitals.

    Christianity provided the family and social mores that allowed prosperity and stability.

    Was it perfect – clearly not --- but it was profoundly better than all the others.

    Think Peace --- Art
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  63. Art says:
    @Tyrion 2
    The West over self-criticises, especially the Anglosphere. China doesn't even have the skill. Anyone will be able to see all of the latter in the inevitable syntactically incorrect incoherent jingoistic nonsense that will follow my previous posts.

    The West over self-criticises, especially the Anglosphere.

    Oh dear – oh my’ – who dares to criticize what the Jew Rothschilds own fare and square.

    It is all an anti-Jew anti-Semite plot – oh’ the suffering!

    Think Peace — Do No Harm — Art

    Read More
    • Replies: @Bucky
    If the Jews had been in China, China would have conquered the Americas and China would rule the world.

    All of the sins that you heap onto Jews were also actions which enabled European dominance. Without money-lending, Europeans are stuck with Catholicism in feudal conditions. They would basically be Tibetans.
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  64. Anonymous[317] • Disclaimer says:
    @Art
    For the last 1,000 years the Chinese have been practicing Confusion philosophy, and have starved.

    The West has been practicing Christian philosophy, and has thrived.

    Today the Chinese have stolen what the West created, and they are doing very well. Within decades the Chinese will return to their old ways, and the golden goose of the West’s thinking will be crushed. It is already happening. The commie party with its for life dictator are ever more crushing dissent.

    Most all the bad things that this article says about America are true. America is in a dark place. Its Western values have been supplanted with Jew coercion. Greedy narcistic Jew individualism has overtaken the Wests sense of responsible community.

    Christianity will come back and defeat the Jews.

    Think Peace --- Do No Harm --- Art

    Famines are just as much a part of “Christendom” as of China. In fact, right after the dominant religion of the Roman Empire became Christianity, the “West” was swiftly rewarded with 400 years of incessant famines.

    Date: 400–800 AD
    Event: Various famines in Western Europe associated with the Fall of the Western Roman Empire and its sack by Alaric I. Between 400 and 800 AD, the population of the city of Rome fell by over 90%, mainly because of famine and plague.[6]
    Location: Western Europe

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famines


    Christianity will come back and defeat the Jews
    , say you? Are Christians going to defeat themselves?

    • “Inside every Christian is a Jew.” -The Pope
    • Philippians 3:3: “For we are the Circumcision.” -Jew Testament

    Art: Greedy narcistic Jew individualism has overtaken the Wests sense of responsible community.

    You got that right! Let’s blame who is to blame – the Rabbi Jesus. He taught to “hate” your blood and kinsmen (Luke 14:26) and “forsake” your native soil (Matthew 19:27-30), while chasing hyper-individualized “salvation.” Note how salvation is for individuals only, and the Great Evangilizer’s goal is to actually tear apart society.

    Jesus: “Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.”

    Luke 12:51-53

    The Chinese are right in tearing down this insane Jew’s cult gathering buildings.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art
    The Chinese are right in tearing down this insane Jew’s cult gathering buildings.

    (317) --- your words define you - clearly you are an angry sick-o.

    You can not think of Peace - can you?

    Do No Harm --- Art
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  65. DB Cooper says:
    @DB Cooper
    Pooh Bear is obviously full of shit but I am interested in the psychology behind it because he starts out by saying how abusive and oppressive the government is to its people and then meander into denigrating the Chinese people as semi-conscious automatons. I don't get the logic behind it because if I hear a people being abused and oppressed my natural instinct is to empathize with those people instead of launching a diatribe against them.

    I suspect Pooh Bear is from a people who are butt hurt and jealous of China the country and the Chinese people and this is the only way he can express himself.

    Here is a clip showing Pooh Bear doing his thing. Go to 0:23, the guy with a purple shirt and green pant is Pooh Bear.

    Read More
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  66. @Art
    For the last 1,000 years the Chinese have been practicing Confusion philosophy, and have starved.

    The West has been practicing Christian philosophy, and has thrived.

    Today the Chinese have stolen what the West created, and they are doing very well. Within decades the Chinese will return to their old ways, and the golden goose of the West’s thinking will be crushed. It is already happening. The commie party with its for life dictator are ever more crushing dissent.

    Most all the bad things that this article says about America are true. America is in a dark place. Its Western values have been supplanted with Jew coercion. Greedy narcistic Jew individualism has overtaken the Wests sense of responsible community.

    Christianity will come back and defeat the Jews.

    Think Peace --- Do No Harm --- Art

    The West practiced Christian philosophy and thrived for the last 1,000 years? If there were a Nobel prize for the BS, you’d be the winner!

    The great majority of the population in the West starved until very recently. The first glimmer of hope of feeding people sufficiently appeared during Renaissance, after the West shook off much of the Christian philosophy that dominated (some might say engendered) the Dark Ages. The last mass starvation in the West followed WWII. So, Chinese mass starvation during Cultural Revolution was only 20 years later.

    Any other historical news you’d like to impart?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art

    The great majority of the population in the West starved until very recently. The first glimmer of hope of feeding people sufficiently appeared during Renaissance, after the West shook off much of the Christian philosophy that dominated (some might say engendered) the Dark Ages.
     
    This is wrong - the Dark Ages were a time of relative peace. Farming communities were centered around Christian Abbeys. Sure, people suffered weather and pandemics --- but not great nation to nation tribal wars.

    The glue to this peaceful time was Christianity. The return to Rome-like nation state wars, was a move backwards to the bane of human rational order – tribalism.

    Think Peace --- Maintain Christian Idealism, Hope, Life, Love, Truth, Forgiveness --- Art
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  67. Vidi says:

    I wrote:

    [The technology was bought by China], not stolen. No one forced American corporations to do business in China. The price of making giant profits was that they had to transfer technology, but this was purely voluntary — the corps were totally free to stay away.

    I might add that Americans — and other Westerners, but especially Americans — appear extremely butt-hurt that the transfer of technology to China was an honest business transaction. These people seem to think that it’s their divine right to pay starvation wages, make enormous profits as a consequence, and not give anything back.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Only if you consider the business elite selling out their own people for profit honest. Americans should be angry, but not at the Chinese.
    , @Anonymous
    It's not always honest, according to American law. Their reverse engineering is legendary, and it's almost impossible to enforce laws against Chinese companies operating inside China.

    Personally, I consider IP laws to be badly designed and generally used to empower the big guys at the expense of the little guys. Therefore, in my eyes, China's 'fuck IP' approach is actually a welcome breath of fresh air. It's not without it's share of resultant problems (Chinese manufacturing companies are loath to spend on product improvement, because their competitors will copy their advances for free) but I still consider it a valid alternative to the American way.
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  68. @Tyrion 2
    You think a Jew saying that the West is overly self-critical equals "hypocritical self-praise"?

    If I were you, I would go by the hard facts, rather than by what any Jew (or Christian, or Muslim, or Buddhist, for that matter) says. As the American saying goes, talk is cheap.

    Read More
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  69. @DB Cooper
    Pooh Bear is obviously full of shit but I am interested in the psychology behind it because he starts out by saying how abusive and oppressive the government is to its people and then meander into denigrating the Chinese people as semi-conscious automatons. I don't get the logic behind it because if I hear a people being abused and oppressed my natural instinct is to empathize with those people instead of launching a diatribe against them.

    I suspect Pooh Bear is from a people who are butt hurt and jealous of China the country and the Chinese people and this is the only way he can express himself.

    You might be right. The most butt hurt about China country is India. They used to be near-peer rivals, but now China is so much ahead that it does not even notice India most of the time, unless Putin points them to it. Indians are jealous. The second most butt hurt country is the US.

    Read More
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  70. FB says:
    @DB Cooper
    Pooh Bear is obviously full of shit but I am interested in the psychology behind it because he starts out by saying how abusive and oppressive the government is to its people and then meander into denigrating the Chinese people as semi-conscious automatons. I don't get the logic behind it because if I hear a people being abused and oppressed my natural instinct is to empathize with those people instead of launching a diatribe against them.

    I suspect Pooh Bear is from a people who are butt hurt and jealous of China the country and the Chinese people and this is the only way he can express himself.

    I think it’s much simpler than that…that was ‘pooh bear’s’ very first post on this site…obviously a troll farm worker…I recognize them here all the time…they always have no commenting history, or very little and they jump on subject-specific issues…and then just as quickly disappear…

    Read More
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  71. @FKA Max
    Personally, I'm not too worried about the poor in the U.S. going hungry either:

    Poverty and Obesity in the U.S.

    Are poverty and obesity associated? Poverty rates and obesity were reviewed across 3,139 counties in the U.S. (2,6). In contrast to international trends, people in America who live in the most poverty-dense counties are those most prone to obesity (Fig. 1A). Counties with poverty rates of >35% have obesity rates 145% greater than wealthy counties.
     
    - http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/60/11/2667

    http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/diabetes/60/11/2667/F1.medium.gif

    FIG. 1.

    Data from 3,139 counties in the U.S. Quintiles are cohorts of counties ranked by the percentage of people living with poverty. Quintile 1, the wealthiest quintile, includes 630 U.S. counties with a mean county poverty rate of 8.2% (median household income, $56,259). Quintile 5, the poorest quintile, includes 629 counties with a mean poverty rate of 25% (median household income, $32,679). A: County age-adjusted obesity rates by poverty quintile. B: County obesity rates vs. county leisure-time sedentary rates (sedentary adults are those who report no physical activity or exercise other than at their regular job). C: County sedentary rates. D: Age-adjusted diabetes rate by poverty quintile.

    Obesity rate will reach nearly 50% by 2030 in the U.S., says OEC

    https://ei.marketwatch.com/Multimedia/2017/05/19/Photos/NS/MW-FM801_obseit_20170519065202_NS.jpg

    Source: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-us-is-the-most-obese-nation-in-the-world-just-ahead-of-mexico-2017-05-19

    Puff, puff….

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/benjaminshobert/2017/01/22/chinas-growing-obesity-problem/#6b5e38c56ecf

    These days, it seems China is beating America at almost everything.

    Take obesity: A recent study published shows that China can now lay claim to having a greater percentage of obese men and women than in the United States.

    Perhaps Americans can take solace with the realization that China’s success has only come on the heels of Western fast food chains penetrating a domestic Chinese market.

    Read More
    • Replies: @FKA Max
    Have you seen this mini-docu, yet?

    American Fast Food Took Over Kuwait And Made Its People Obese: VICE on HBO

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyMTSvVAtWM

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  72. CJ says:

    Everybody else can argue about China. I’m only going to talk about that graph that shows four times as many Americans as Chinese can’t afford enough food to eat. It is impossible to travel widely through the USA and believe that there are any functional people who aren’t getting enough to eat. What strikes you more are all the dysfunctional people who clearly eat too much.

    How can you believe anything else in there after you see that graph?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    This.

    Even the beggars on the street look like walruses. Go out in the sticks and people are even fatter. Seriously, the only thin people you're likely to see are other tourists.
    , @Anonymous
    To me, it is not really about food but real estate prices.

    I don't think we literally have a starving people epidemic. But we do have crazy high real estate prices that eat away at disposable income.

    I know lots of people who cannot afford to eat out anywhere. So based on the way the question was phrased, I can see that as being true.
    , @Godfree Roberts
    Belief is unnecessary in this case: just go to the source of the information and check their methodology which, if it is a reputable agency, it makes available on line.

    If you want to know more email the project director, who will always reply, and ask just how and where those figures came from and whether they are comparable, given what you've observed.

    Sometimes it really pays off! I tracked down the source of a much-used chart on a Chinese famine to an Irish professor who was amazed that anyone based a chart on his opinions because, he wrote, "I know nothing about China".

    BTW, People on both coasts in the US often ask me for money to buy food. That has never happened to me in China, where I spend all my time on foot.
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  73. @Vidi

    God-Free here has stated previously that Mao did more good for people than anyone else in history. That would be true in the sense that Mao personally sent more people immediately to heaven than anyone else in history.
     
    Did you actually read Godfree's article? China's population actually increased during the Great Leap Forward.

    “Did you actually read Godfree’s article? China’s population actually increased during the Great Leap Forward.”

    Did I say the population went down? No. Just because Mao couldn’t murder them faster than they were being born does not mean he was a good guy.

    The Great Leap Forward was only one segment of Mao’s 4 decade reign of terror. But I will admit that the violence is not really about Mao, per se, as it were, but rather about the wickedness of his communist Marxist philosophy. He believed, like ever Marxist, that expropriation and redistribution were good methods for running the world. The truth is expropriation and redistribution are evil and wicked and lead to catastrophic suffering for the average person. But not much suffering for the typical apparatchik, of course.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Vidi

    Did I say the population went down? No. Just because Mao couldn’t murder them faster than they were being born does not mean he was a good guy.
     
    China had low rain for several years in a row, so people died from famine. Which doesn't mean that Mao killed them. As usual, the Mao-haters spout fake news.

    Perhaps the people could have been saved if Mao could have borrowed money to import food from abroad, but China was not allowed to borrow: she was sanctioned by the U.S. We could probably blame America more than Mao for the death of all those Chinese.
    , @Godfree Roberts
    Do you actually know anything about China or are you operating on beliefs? WTF do beliefs have to do with anything except crackpot religions? Ignore the rhetoric. Face the facts.
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  74. Art says:
    @Ibn Issam

    The West has been practicing Christian philosophy, and has thrived.
     
    The secular West has not thrived because of Christian Philosophy, but rather in spite of it.

    The West has been practicing Christian philosophy, and has thrived.

    The secular West has not thrived because of Christian Philosophy, but rather in spite of it.

    That is ridiculous – Western science came out of Christian universities that abounded in Western nations, with Christian philosophies. Western medicine came out of Christian hospitals.

    Christianity provided the family and social mores that allowed prosperity and stability.

    Was it perfect – clearly not — but it was profoundly better than all the others.

    Think Peace — Art

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Modern science came from Europe's rediscovery of long suppressed Greek philosophy, i.e., the Enlightement, especially the rediscovery of the atomist and naturalist philosopher Epicurus (via his follower Lucretius' poem De Rerum Natura), in spite of Christianity's howling resistance to reality.

    Of course, Christian SJWs --and they were the original SJWs--have their own just-so goddidit narrative. The midwit St. Paul mocked Epicurus' atomic theory in the Bible. Yes, "atom" ἀτόμῳ (atomō) is in the Jew Testament. Ask yourself why you don't know where, and have to look it up.
    , @Vidi


    The secular West has not thrived because of Christian Philosophy, but rather in spite of it.
     
    That is ridiculous – Western science came out of Christian universities that abounded in Western nations, with Christian philosophies. Western medicine came out of Christian hospitals.
     
    So Plato and Aristotle were Christians?

    How about the four great inventions from China, which profoundly changed the world; were their inventors Christian?

    Just in case you doubt that China's Four Great Inventions were overwhelmingly influential, here's a quote from one of the West's first scientists:


    Printing, gunpowder and the compass: These three have changed the whole face and state of things throughout the world; the first in literature, the second in warfare, the third in navigation; whence have followed innumerable changes, in so much that no empire, no sect, no star seems to have exerted greater power and influence in human affairs than these mechanical discoveries.

    -- Francis Bacon, Novum Organum, 1620.
     

    Without the Four Great Inventions, the West would probably still be in the very Christian Dark Ages.
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  75. larjo says:

    As a Christian priest, I have to protest the commentary in the article about an elevation of the individual above family and community being a Christian value. There is a balance and, yes, unlike in other views the individual actually matters, but the Bible had a lot to say about setting aside ourselves, living as family, and seeing after the larger Christian body and community. The idolization of the individual above all else is a fringe notion.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    In places that really believe in HBD you often see white people talk endlessly about how white people are exceptional due to their individuality which no other race seems to have.

    I think this stems mainly from insecurity as blacks are clearly superior physically and asians are clearly superior mentally (except for Ashkenazi Jews of course).

    So these white HBDers have to manufacture something that makes whites special. This is also why they always harp on creativity as well.
    , @Godfree Roberts
    Sure, that's in-life social advice, and appropriate, but it has nothing to do with the individual soul in transcendent relation to the Divine. That's the nitty-gritty.
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  76. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:

    China has major problems. This article ignores all of them.

    It’s too much to refute in such a small space. I have not the incentive nor the time.

    Investigate for yourself subjects such as economic inequality, industrial and chemical waste, air pollution, smog, water pollution, trash disposal and landfill management, construction failures, the rate of HIV, closet homosexuality, execution for minor offenses, dismal treatment of women etc……. Use your imagination.

    Do your own research.

    Godfree is blowing smoke up your ass.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
    Why no do a little yourself? Share what you find?
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  77. @Anonymous
    Hell, say you? Slopes aren't welcome in the Nordic underworld realm of Loki's half-dead daughter Hell, where we Ice People who have completed our life's journey on the Highway to Hell, i.e., Helvegr, will...

    ...spend their time doing the same kinds of things that Viking Age men and women did: eating, drinking, fighting, sleeping, and so forth. It wasn’t a place of eternal bliss or torment as much as it was simply a continuation of life somewhere else.
    http://norse-mythology.org/cosmology/the-nine-worlds/helheim/
     
    Of course, the Jew-worshiping Christians believe that their own ancestor's myths of Hell are something to be mocked, which is good reason for the Chinese to tear down Christian churches, if only to keep their own people from becoming as Jew-addled as the Kike-wannabees who comprise the "West."

    Loki wept.

    曾祖父 won't.

    “which is good reason for the Chinese to tear down Christian churches, if only to keep their own people from becoming as Jew-addled as the Kike-wannabees who comprise the “ West .” ”

    Gee, you seem to be oblivious to the fact that the Chinese are the most Jew-addled people who ever lived, because Communism is a kike philosophy. Whereas in contrast the kikes hate Christ and Christianity and always have hated it since its inception. If you were not a drooling retard you would know this. Nice try, though, do spin again.

    Especially nice of you to call your ideological fathers “kikes.” How ironic.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Communism is a kike philosophy straight outta the Jew Testament.

    "Not one of them claimed that anything belonging to him was his own, but all things were common property to them...and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need." Acts 4:32-35
     
    Kikes loved Christ. If you can believe the Jew Testament.

    He taught regularly in their synagogues and was praised by everyone. Luke 4:15
     
    Jesus is like Trotsky.

    The Soviet Communists eventually hated Trotsky, and had him assassinated too. By your midwit "logic" we we all must all become Trotskyites, because, hey, Communists hated him and had him killed and we hate Communists, so we love Trotsky!!!! LOL

    You're stupid enough to insert yourself into Jewish infighting and pick a side. That takes a true moron.
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  78. phil says:

    For the chart at the beginning of the piece it would have been more helpful to compare the Chinese in China with the Chinese in America. In America, for example, almost all homeless people are white or black; very few are Chinese or Hispanic.

    One day I was driving into town. On the way there I saw Hispanics waiting to be picked up for day labor. After breakfast I was approached by a white who asked for money. I told him where he could go to wait to be picked up for day labor. He was aghast. Not many Hispanics simply ask people for money.

    A professor told us that crime was caused by poverty. I asked him how many murders there are in Chinatown annually (where, statistically, some of the poorer US Chinese live). He became quiet. There are very few murders in Chinatown, and almost all of them result from domestic disputes.

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  79. FKA Max says: • Website
    @FKA Max
    Personally, I'm not too worried about the poor in the U.S. going hungry either:

    Poverty and Obesity in the U.S.

    Are poverty and obesity associated? Poverty rates and obesity were reviewed across 3,139 counties in the U.S. (2,6). In contrast to international trends, people in America who live in the most poverty-dense counties are those most prone to obesity (Fig. 1A). Counties with poverty rates of >35% have obesity rates 145% greater than wealthy counties.
     
    - http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/60/11/2667

    http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/diabetes/60/11/2667/F1.medium.gif

    FIG. 1.

    Data from 3,139 counties in the U.S. Quintiles are cohorts of counties ranked by the percentage of people living with poverty. Quintile 1, the wealthiest quintile, includes 630 U.S. counties with a mean county poverty rate of 8.2% (median household income, $56,259). Quintile 5, the poorest quintile, includes 629 counties with a mean poverty rate of 25% (median household income, $32,679). A: County age-adjusted obesity rates by poverty quintile. B: County obesity rates vs. county leisure-time sedentary rates (sedentary adults are those who report no physical activity or exercise other than at their regular job). C: County sedentary rates. D: Age-adjusted diabetes rate by poverty quintile.

    Obesity rate will reach nearly 50% by 2030 in the U.S., says OEC

    https://ei.marketwatch.com/Multimedia/2017/05/19/Photos/NS/MW-FM801_obseit_20170519065202_NS.jpg

    Source: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-us-is-the-most-obese-nation-in-the-world-just-ahead-of-mexico-2017-05-19

    Typo: Obesity rate will reach nearly 50% by 2030 in the U.S., says *OECD*

    Racial and Ethnic Disparities in Obesity

    Among U.S. adults, Black and Latino populations have substantially higher rates of obesity than do White populations. This is true among both men and women.https://stateofobesity.org/disparities/

    Figure 4. Current Obesity & Overweight Rates Among Adults by Race and Ethnicity (2011—2012). Special Report: Racial and Ethnic Disparities in Obesity. The State of Obesity Web site. http://stateofobesity.org/disparities/. Accessed October 3, 2016.

    Source: https://www.bu.edu/sph/2016/10/09/meeting-the-challenge-of-obesity/


    More than 15 million U.S. children live in “food-insecure” households — having limited access to adequate food and nutrition due to cost, proximity and/or other resources.1 Low income individuals are at increased risk for both food insecurity and obesity.
    https://stateofobesity.org/food-insecurity/

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  80. Art says:
    @AnonFromTN
    The West practiced Christian philosophy and thrived for the last 1,000 years? If there were a Nobel prize for the BS, you’d be the winner!

    The great majority of the population in the West starved until very recently. The first glimmer of hope of feeding people sufficiently appeared during Renaissance, after the West shook off much of the Christian philosophy that dominated (some might say engendered) the Dark Ages. The last mass starvation in the West followed WWII. So, Chinese mass starvation during Cultural Revolution was only 20 years later.

    Any other historical news you’d like to impart?

    The great majority of the population in the West starved until very recently. The first glimmer of hope of feeding people sufficiently appeared during Renaissance, after the West shook off much of the Christian philosophy that dominated (some might say engendered) the Dark Ages.

    This is wrong – the Dark Ages were a time of relative peace. Farming communities were centered around Christian Abbeys. Sure, people suffered weather and pandemics — but not great nation to nation tribal wars.

    The glue to this peaceful time was Christianity. The return to Rome-like nation state wars, was a move backwards to the bane of human rational order – tribalism.

    Think Peace — Maintain Christian Idealism, Hope, Life, Love, Truth, Forgiveness — Art

    Read More
    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    There were no large-scale country-to-country wars because there were no stable united countries after the demise of the Roman Empire. However, Dark Ages were the time of incessant small-scale feudal wars, not the time of peace. Christian abbeys, like other feudal landholders, engaged in those wars. Crusades were large-scale wars blessed by the Christian Church (you can blame Catholics for those, if you are a Baptist, but that’s lame).

    In peacetime farmers often suffered because of bad weather and consequent low crop yields, not to mention plagues of various sorts. Sufficient food appeared in the nineteenth century. Science got a foothold in the Universities only after they stopped specializing in graduating priests. Medicine was a city thing. As a concept, it is anti-religious (if the good God wanted you healthy, he’d make you healthy).
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  81. @Pooh Bear 250
    I have lived in Mainland China for over a decade and have traveled extensively within China during this time. The bar graph near the top of this article is the most blatant lie I've ever seen in my life (which is saying a lot given the nature of US MSM today), and the only thing that amazes me more than the tendency of so many Chinese people to prop up a regime that abuses and oppresses them and leaves them no option but to live in filth and squalor is the tendency for so many from the West to believe their easily refuted lies. Like it has always been throughout history, China is as poor as fuck and is a filthy dump, including so-called modern cities such as Shanghai and Beijing. Chinese culture, as ever, remains a creepy blend of autism and sociopathy, filled to the brim with semi-conscious automatons, stammering around bumping into each other, incessantly screaming at each other about nonsense, failing to master the art of forming a line. Do not believe a word of what you read from Chinese propagandists or from US left-leaning media. The modernization, the rising economy, the supposed superior intelligence of the Chinese (ask people who've taught in China) -- it's all BS. There is a reason China is perpetually lagging behind, and if China doesn't pull its head out of its ass really soon and pay attention to reality, it's about to be FUBAR.

    Well said! Thank your saying that. I suspected as much. I would add that if the Chinese really think liberty of the individual is an alien and decadent idea that is all the more reason to keep them from immigrating here. We want people who, though not necessarily wretched or huddled, are yearning to breathe free. The right to define one’s goals and express one’s views is the ONLY human right, since without it the others are just the right of a vegetable to be watered.

    Read More
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  82. FKA Max says: • Website
    @Bardon Kaldian
    Puff, puff....

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/benjaminshobert/2017/01/22/chinas-growing-obesity-problem/#6b5e38c56ecf

    These days, it seems China is beating America at almost everything.

    Take obesity: A recent study published shows that China can now lay claim to having a greater percentage of obese men and women than in the United States.

    Perhaps Americans can take solace with the realization that China’s success has only come on the heels of Western fast food chains penetrating a domestic Chinese market.

    Have you seen this mini-docu, yet?

    American Fast Food Took Over Kuwait And Made Its People Obese: VICE on HBO

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ivan
    When the lard is laid on by the Kuwaiti government itself. When all work at home is done by maids, all office work done by foreigners, when Kuwaitis get whatever qualifications they have from degree mills if at all, when everything is geared to producing generations of lard asses, why blame American fast food?
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  83. Art says:
    @Anonymous
    Famines are just as much a part of "Christendom" as of China. In fact, right after the dominant religion of the Roman Empire became Christianity, the "West" was swiftly rewarded with 400 years of incessant famines.

    Date: 400–800 AD
    Event: Various famines in Western Europe associated with the Fall of the Western Roman Empire and its sack by Alaric I. Between 400 and 800 AD, the population of the city of Rome fell by over 90%, mainly because of famine and plague.[6]
    Location: Western Europe

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famines
     


    Christianity will come back and defeat the Jews
    , say you? Are Christians going to defeat themselves?

    • "Inside every Christian is a Jew." -The Pope
    • Philippians 3:3: "For we are the Circumcision." -Jew Testament


    Art: Greedy narcistic Jew individualism has overtaken the Wests sense of responsible community.
     
    You got that right! Let's blame who is to blame - the Rabbi Jesus. He taught to "hate" your blood and kinsmen (Luke 14:26) and "forsake" your native soil (Matthew 19:27-30), while chasing hyper-individualized "salvation." Note how salvation is for individuals only, and the Great Evangilizer's goal is to actually tear apart society.

    Jesus: "Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law."

    Luke 12:51-53
     

    The Chinese are right in tearing down this insane Jew's cult gathering buildings.

    The Chinese are right in tearing down this insane Jew’s cult gathering buildings.

    (317) — your words define you – clearly you are an angry sick-o.

    You can not think of Peace – can you?

    Do No Harm — Art

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Angry = sicko, huh? In your inept attempt to deflect from facts you find uncomfortable, you just indicted the Jewish Rabbi Jesus as a "sick-o."

    "...this made Jesus very angry..." (Mark 1:40-44)
     
    And yes, that is the way it reads in any honest translation -- even if they're only honest in the footnotes, as this theologian points out...

    I am always amazed by how many people completely ignore the footnotes of their Bibles. (Then, I remember the studies showing how often people actually read their Bibles, and to what extent…) I’ve got at least ten different print translations right here on my shelf and they all concede that the original Greek was “anger” (in a couple of cases, “extreme anger”) as part of the footnotes. This begs the question: Why are publishers purposefully hiding the most original, most accurate translation in the footnotes?

    If you are confused why so many Bibles use the wrong (new/changed) translation of this verse, rather than the oldest, most original Greek – ask you Pastor about the Greek words, orgistheis, embrimesamenos, and exebalen… (Then, think about it on your own and maybe do a little research on other important verses in the Bible that have been altered through the ages….)

    http://www.awkwardmomentsbible.com/angermanagement/
     
    Now what?
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  84. @Art

    The great majority of the population in the West starved until very recently. The first glimmer of hope of feeding people sufficiently appeared during Renaissance, after the West shook off much of the Christian philosophy that dominated (some might say engendered) the Dark Ages.
     
    This is wrong - the Dark Ages were a time of relative peace. Farming communities were centered around Christian Abbeys. Sure, people suffered weather and pandemics --- but not great nation to nation tribal wars.

    The glue to this peaceful time was Christianity. The return to Rome-like nation state wars, was a move backwards to the bane of human rational order – tribalism.

    Think Peace --- Maintain Christian Idealism, Hope, Life, Love, Truth, Forgiveness --- Art

    There were no large-scale country-to-country wars because there were no stable united countries after the demise of the Roman Empire. However, Dark Ages were the time of incessant small-scale feudal wars, not the time of peace. Christian abbeys, like other feudal landholders, engaged in those wars. Crusades were large-scale wars blessed by the Christian Church (you can blame Catholics for those, if you are a Baptist, but that’s lame).

    In peacetime farmers often suffered because of bad weather and consequent low crop yields, not to mention plagues of various sorts. Sufficient food appeared in the nineteenth century. Science got a foothold in the Universities only after they stopped specializing in graduating priests. Medicine was a city thing. As a concept, it is anti-religious (if the good God wanted you healthy, he’d make you healthy).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art
    There were no large-scale country-to-country wars because there were no stable united countries after the demise of the Roman Empire.

    Gee’ - would we not like to tray that again after the Jew Empire of America falls to pieces?

    Wouldn’t it be nice to have local communities run by idealists, being the only power in the world?

    Of course, a thousand years after that, some guy from TN will find fault because it was not perfect.

    Perfect is the enemy of the good.

    Think Peace --- Do No Harm --- Art

    p.s. Do your realize that if you do no harm – that still, some bad things will happen – the universe is a bitch.
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  85. Anonymous[209] • Disclaimer says:
    @Vidi
    I wrote:

    [The technology was bought by China], not stolen. No one forced American corporations to do business in China. The price of making giant profits was that they had to transfer technology, but this was purely voluntary -- the corps were totally free to stay away.
     
    I might add that Americans -- and other Westerners, but especially Americans -- appear extremely butt-hurt that the transfer of technology to China was an honest business transaction. These people seem to think that it's their divine right to pay starvation wages, make enormous profits as a consequence, and not give anything back.

    Only if you consider the business elite selling out their own people for profit honest. Americans should be angry, but not at the Chinese.

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  86. Anonymous[209] • Disclaimer says:
    @CJ
    Everybody else can argue about China. I'm only going to talk about that graph that shows four times as many Americans as Chinese can't afford enough food to eat. It is impossible to travel widely through the USA and believe that there are any functional people who aren't getting enough to eat. What strikes you more are all the dysfunctional people who clearly eat too much.

    How can you believe anything else in there after you see that graph?

    This.

    Even the beggars on the street look like walruses. Go out in the sticks and people are even fatter. Seriously, the only thin people you’re likely to see are other tourists.

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  87. Art says:
    @AnonFromTN
    There were no large-scale country-to-country wars because there were no stable united countries after the demise of the Roman Empire. However, Dark Ages were the time of incessant small-scale feudal wars, not the time of peace. Christian abbeys, like other feudal landholders, engaged in those wars. Crusades were large-scale wars blessed by the Christian Church (you can blame Catholics for those, if you are a Baptist, but that’s lame).

    In peacetime farmers often suffered because of bad weather and consequent low crop yields, not to mention plagues of various sorts. Sufficient food appeared in the nineteenth century. Science got a foothold in the Universities only after they stopped specializing in graduating priests. Medicine was a city thing. As a concept, it is anti-religious (if the good God wanted you healthy, he’d make you healthy).

    There were no large-scale country-to-country wars because there were no stable united countries after the demise of the Roman Empire.

    Gee’ – would we not like to tray that again after the Jew Empire of America falls to pieces?

    Wouldn’t it be nice to have local communities run by idealists, being the only power in the world?

    Of course, a thousand years after that, some guy from TN will find fault because it was not perfect.

    Perfect is the enemy of the good.

    Think Peace — Do No Harm — Art

    p.s. Do your realize that if you do no harm – that still, some bad things will happen – the universe is a bitch.

    Read More
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  88. Anonymous[142] • Disclaimer says:
    @Art
    The Chinese are right in tearing down this insane Jew’s cult gathering buildings.

    (317) --- your words define you - clearly you are an angry sick-o.

    You can not think of Peace - can you?

    Do No Harm --- Art

    Angry = sicko, huh? In your inept attempt to deflect from facts you find uncomfortable, you just indicted the Jewish Rabbi Jesus as a “sick-o.”

    “…this made Jesus very angry…” (Mark 1:40-44)

    And yes, that is the way it reads in any honest translation — even if they’re only honest in the footnotes, as this theologian points out…

    I am always amazed by how many people completely ignore the footnotes of their Bibles. (Then, I remember the studies showing how often people actually read their Bibles, and to what extent…) I’ve got at least ten different print translations right here on my shelf and they all concede that the original Greek was “anger” (in a couple of cases, “extreme anger”) as part of the footnotes. This begs the question: Why are publishers purposefully hiding the most original, most accurate translation in the footnotes?

    If you are confused why so many Bibles use the wrong (new/changed) translation of this verse, rather than the oldest, most original Greek – ask you Pastor about the Greek words, orgistheis, embrimesamenos, and exebalen… (Then, think about it on your own and maybe do a little research on other important verses in the Bible that have been altered through the ages….)

    http://www.awkwardmomentsbible.com/angermanagement/

    Now what?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art
    that is the way it reads in any honest translation.

    (142),

    You need to translate this - it will do you more good than anything you will every contemplate.

    Jesus -- "The truth will set you free."

    Think Peace --- Art
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  89. Art says:
    @Anonymous
    Angry = sicko, huh? In your inept attempt to deflect from facts you find uncomfortable, you just indicted the Jewish Rabbi Jesus as a "sick-o."

    "...this made Jesus very angry..." (Mark 1:40-44)
     
    And yes, that is the way it reads in any honest translation -- even if they're only honest in the footnotes, as this theologian points out...

    I am always amazed by how many people completely ignore the footnotes of their Bibles. (Then, I remember the studies showing how often people actually read their Bibles, and to what extent…) I’ve got at least ten different print translations right here on my shelf and they all concede that the original Greek was “anger” (in a couple of cases, “extreme anger”) as part of the footnotes. This begs the question: Why are publishers purposefully hiding the most original, most accurate translation in the footnotes?

    If you are confused why so many Bibles use the wrong (new/changed) translation of this verse, rather than the oldest, most original Greek – ask you Pastor about the Greek words, orgistheis, embrimesamenos, and exebalen… (Then, think about it on your own and maybe do a little research on other important verses in the Bible that have been altered through the ages….)

    http://www.awkwardmomentsbible.com/angermanagement/
     
    Now what?

    that is the way it reads in any honest translation.

    (142),

    You need to translate this – it will do you more good than anything you will every contemplate.

    Jesus — “The truth will set you free.”

    Think Peace — Art

    Read More
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  90. Anonymous[570] • Disclaimer says:
    @Art

    The West has been practicing Christian philosophy, and has thrived.

    The secular West has not thrived because of Christian Philosophy, but rather in spite of it.
     
    That is ridiculous – Western science came out of Christian universities that abounded in Western nations, with Christian philosophies. Western medicine came out of Christian hospitals.

    Christianity provided the family and social mores that allowed prosperity and stability.

    Was it perfect – clearly not --- but it was profoundly better than all the others.

    Think Peace --- Art

    Modern science came from Europe’s rediscovery of long suppressed Greek philosophy, i.e., the Enlightement, especially the rediscovery of the atomist and naturalist philosopher Epicurus (via his follower Lucretius’ poem De Rerum Natura), in spite of Christianity’s howling resistance to reality.

    Of course, Christian SJWs –and they were the original SJWs–have their own just-so goddidit narrative. The midwit St. Paul mocked Epicurus’ atomic theory in the Bible. Yes, “atom” ἀτόμῳ (atomō) is in the Jew Testament. Ask yourself why you don’t know where, and have to look it up.

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    • Replies: @Art
    Modern science came from Europe’s rediscovery of long suppressed Greek philosophy,

    (570),

    Oh my' sour grapes' - it happened in Christian schools.

    You have 10,000 reasons against it working - but it worked - didn't it.

    It is the best --- Christian Western culture!

    When we defeat the Jews, it will work again - even better then before.

    Think Peace --- Do No Harm --- Maintain Hope, Love, Life, Truth, & Idealism --- Art

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  91. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:
    @CJ
    Everybody else can argue about China. I'm only going to talk about that graph that shows four times as many Americans as Chinese can't afford enough food to eat. It is impossible to travel widely through the USA and believe that there are any functional people who aren't getting enough to eat. What strikes you more are all the dysfunctional people who clearly eat too much.

    How can you believe anything else in there after you see that graph?

    To me, it is not really about food but real estate prices.

    I don’t think we literally have a starving people epidemic. But we do have crazy high real estate prices that eat away at disposable income.

    I know lots of people who cannot afford to eat out anywhere. So based on the way the question was phrased, I can see that as being true.

    Read More
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  92. Anonymous[570] • Disclaimer says:
    @James Solbakken
    "which is good reason for the Chinese to tear down Christian churches, if only to keep their own people from becoming as Jew-addled as the Kike-wannabees who comprise the “ West .” "

    Gee, you seem to be oblivious to the fact that the Chinese are the most Jew-addled people who ever lived, because Communism is a kike philosophy. Whereas in contrast the kikes hate Christ and Christianity and always have hated it since its inception. If you were not a drooling retard you would know this. Nice try, though, do spin again.

    Especially nice of you to call your ideological fathers "kikes." How ironic.

    Communism is a kike philosophy straight outta the Jew Testament.

    “Not one of them claimed that anything belonging to him was his own, but all things were common property to them…and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.” Acts 4:32-35

    Kikes loved Christ. If you can believe the Jew Testament.

    He taught regularly in their synagogues and was praised by everyone. Luke 4:15

    Jesus is like Trotsky.

    The Soviet Communists eventually hated Trotsky, and had him assassinated too. By your midwit “logic” we we all must all become Trotskyites, because, hey, Communists hated him and had him killed and we hate Communists, so we love Trotsky!!!! LOL

    You’re stupid enough to insert yourself into Jewish infighting and pick a side. That takes a true moron.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
    My two cents:
    Communism actually works for community. But in type of community where everybody knows everybody.
    So I would estimate the community of about 2 hundred people max.
    Communism cannot work for larger community, where people do not know each other.
    So communism certainly cannot work for states.

    PS. Trotsky was the leader of internationalists (mostly Jews) Stalin was nationalist so Stalin won because of his ties to military. He did not wont to kill Trotsky because he had respect for Trotsky' s
    contribution to the revolution.
    Trotsky's death had nothing to do with ideology. Trotsky did not have money, or he did not want to pay his Mexican housekeeper. So the Mexican in his fury after the argument took an axe and split Trotsky's head.
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  93. The most remarkable aspect of the figure is the sudden drop in hungry Chinese people between 2009 and 2010. It is true that Chinese GDP had high growth in that year, but this was also true for most other years. Is there any particular reason for the sudden change?

    The drop is significant because it accounts for most of the difference between the USA and China since 2009.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
    It's on my list of questions to ask Justin Lin Yifu. Is it an anomaly, a change of methodology? When I get an answer I'll post it here.
    , @Godfree Roberts
    I asked a retired Chinese banker who's interested in poverty reduction, since he originally came from a poor village. He says the chart probably represents a combination of changed methodologies, catchup after years of neglect, rural food subsidies and urbanization.

    He explained that the rather stubborn residue, after 2009, is made up of Category Three poor people –capable of work but external conditions or resources like jobs are poor and for whom relocation or employment skills training may be effective–and Category Four, people who are permanently incapacitated like the severely disabled who should be supported by the social protection system.

    Right now, everyone in those categories has been identified and helped by an official (whose personal cel number they have) responsible for getting them across the line by 2021.
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  94. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:
    @larjo
    As a Christian priest, I have to protest the commentary in the article about an elevation of the individual above family and community being a Christian value. There is a balance and, yes, unlike in other views the individual actually matters, but the Bible had a lot to say about setting aside ourselves, living as family, and seeing after the larger Christian body and community. The idolization of the individual above all else is a fringe notion.

    In places that really believe in HBD you often see white people talk endlessly about how white people are exceptional due to their individuality which no other race seems to have.

    I think this stems mainly from insecurity as blacks are clearly superior physically and asians are clearly superior mentally (except for Ashkenazi Jews of course).

    So these white HBDers have to manufacture something that makes whites special. This is also why they always harp on creativity as well.

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  95. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    This piece has some key ideas based in hogwash philosophy.

    First of all, the "Roman ideal" of a rootless individual is nonsense. Have you ever read actual Roman philosophy? They gave us the word "patria" for crying out loud. Roman people went over to the Catholic faith in large part because their pagan religions were unable to help them retain communal life during a period of great socioeconomic change and disorder.

    Second, it is wrong to state that Christianity removes the individual entirely from his patrimony. Traditional Christianity is a far more communal religion than you seem to think. There are almost countless examples of this in literature and non-leftist histories of medieval Europe, although my favorite is Chesterton's 'A Short History of England.'

    For evidence on the second point in Asia, I would merely cite the life of St. Francis Xavier. It took a clever mind like his to connect Christ to Asians, but once he did, conversions followed. Moreover, if China was indeed approaching some kind of synthesis between its Confucian past and its recent history, it would no doubt see such a need to persecute the underground (i.e. real) Chinese Catholic Church with the help of Marxist running dog Jorge Bergoglio, aka "Pope Francis."

    Perhaps you're one to say the authorities must persecute Christians because they represent a threat to ancient Chinese values. I doubt that. I think it's because China's government is still much more consumerist and materalist in its economic ways than any healthy state has any right to be.

    (And, mind you, I am an American who utterly despises modern America, so I have no qualms about American impressions of China being wrong.)

    I am puzzled. I said nothing about either

    ‘the “Roman ideal” of a rootless individual’ nor that ‘ Christianity removes the individual entirely from his patrimony’. Nothing whatever.

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  96. D says:
    @Moi
    In light of your views, I'm puzzled why you'd live there for more than a decade.

    It’s an open secret that most, if not all, of the long-term western expats in China are losers back home (LBH). They depend on China as their source of income and women who would sleep with them, but they also typically display contempt for the Chinese people and wish for the destruction of the Chinese nation.

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    • Replies: @Bill P
    Bullshit. Most long term expats prefer life in China and probably prefer China to the USA. That's why they're long term.

    I've known quite a few. I couldn't stomach the place nearly as well as they could. I couldn't defend it like they do. Chinese should cultivate them, because they are way more Sinophilic than your average American ever could be.

    And yet Chinese trash them as losers, which to me says, yeah maybe they are, because for all their love for China they still get trashed and put up with it.

    And another thing... Why is it so much easier for them to get laid in China despite them being such "losers?" What does that say about China? Nothing good, I know that.

    It's not entirely true anyway. Beautiful Chinese women are hard to get in China, and ordinary white girls are not so hard in the US or Europe.

    The thing is that a lot of these expat "losers" prefer the Chinese aesthetic. Although I differ from them in this regard, I can understand it. There's something beguiling and sublime about the Chinese ideal. Sometimes when I'm alone I like to listen to Chinese traditional music and have a few drinks. It's a nice feeling, and it makes the world a better place.

    But at the same time if my homeland were in danger of being Sinicized I'd be horrified and I'd fight it. Your loser expats, on the other hand, would not. They already live it and that's what they prefer. And still you demean them and call them losers. This just gives me all the more reason to resist Sinicization. I'm not going to let my kids be subjugated by people who look down on and hate them.
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  97. @James Solbakken
    God-Free here has stated previously that Mao did more good for people than anyone else in history. That would be true in the sense that Mao personally sent more people immediately to heaven than anyone else in history.

    I think we're being trolled. Nobody thinks China is anything else besides a miserable totalitarian excrement hole, and it will be such until the CCP is overthrown and all its leaders are sent to hell where they belong.

    There are very few fora left on the Internet where we can discuss subjects like this. Why trash it with ad hominem?

    If you want to question something I’ve written, question it. If you want to offer evidence to contradict what I write, offer it.

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    • Replies: @James Solbakken
    "If you want to question something I’ve written, question it. If you want to offer evidence to contradict what I write, offer it."

    Yeah, sure, God-Free. You are not a flesh & blood human being, even if you are. You are some sort of Red Friggin' Chinese troll-bot that is programmed to spew idiotic nonsense and stupid @$$-Klown bull-$hit.

    You are beneath contempt and not worthy to be taken seriously. This is not an ad hominem argument, it is a moral observation.

    Nice try, though, doofus, do spin again.
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  98. @Ibn Issam
    Although I have many criticisms of my own about China, it is still interesting and eye-opening to see the comparison with U.S.A.

    “Christian-based Western values like radical autonomy of the individual, the soul in a transcendent relationship to the world, the prioritizing of the individual over the family and the prioritizing of the individual over the state are alien to the Chinese.”
     
    This reminds me of Max Weber’s studies on the Protestant Reformation and the rise of Capitalism. The Christian ideal of individual spirit and elevation of the self above all else and all others has been extremely detrimental to western culture and society. I think that the western ideals about human rights are foreign to most traditional societies. Although Traditional societies, cultures, civilizations may not be in fundamental disagreement with the idea of human rights, there is still a core disagreement on what human rights are based upon or what authority they are derived from.


    Premier Wen Jiabao said, “Science, democracy, rule of law, freedom and human rights are not concepts unique to capitalism. Rather, they are common values pursued by all mankind throughout history: the fruits of human civilization. It is only that–at different historical stages and in different countries–they are achieved through different means and in different forms”.

     

    This statement by Premier Jibao is very accurate and holds true for Islamic civilization as well. Although I would acknowledge that there are many human rights abuses in various Muslim majority countries, and that many Muslims today have acted less than exemplary. I would say that this is largely due to not implementing Islam in the most proper and beneficial ways as it was implemented historically.

    Fundamental Human Rights are enshrined in Islamic Law. Indeed, one of the great scholars of Islam Ibn al-Qayyim (d. 1350) once said that, “the Islam in its entirety is justice, mercy and benefit. So if any issue that leads from justice to injustice, or mercy to its opposite, or benefit to harm, then it is NOT from Islam, even if someone thought that it is.” So the collective aim of Islam and Islamic Law is to facilitate Justice, peace, and benefit for humanity in this life and in the hereafter. This includes an assurance of social welfare and well-being.

    In Islamic tradition the individual has responsibilities toward his family, community, tribe, nation, co-religionists, humanity in general, and ultimately to Almighty God Allah, who mandates human rights for all mankind. So in Islam, human rights are grounded in God’s religion, and the well-being of the individual is closely connected to the greater community and the good works of charity, kindness, mercy and selfless service to other people. While Islam maintains the equality of all people, it is made clear that God Judges between us based on our piety, which should motivate us to compete in doing good works, and which engenders positive and beneficial service to others in the community. Each individual has basic Human rights which help assure his welfare, but which also do not violate the rights of the community, or cross the boundaries laid out by God.

    The great Islamic philosopher, scholar, and theologian Al-Ghazzali derived from the Qur’an and Sunnah five necessities that need to be sustained in order to ensure individual and social welfare and to stave of both unbearable hardship in this life and potential punishment in the hereafter. These are the following:

    1-Religion (freedom to practice)
    2-Life (Sanctity of Life)
    3-Intellect (uphold the power of reason, knowledge and education)
    4-Property (Guarantee security of assets)
    5- Lineage (Importance of family/children)

    Therefore, it can be seen that Islam enhances and refines life by establishing and protecting the essential human rights of people, while at the same time, seeking to assure that the individual does abuse rights of other people. The one who truly seeks to please his Creator, would not abuse another person’s rights, as that would be a crime against one’s own self, and to God who is also the creator of the person abused. It is God himself, who has ordained Human Rights, and Justice for the benefit of his creatures as it exemplifies his Mercy unto us all.

    Thanks heaps!! I’ve been wondering when someone would explain Islam’s approach. Very helpful

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  99. @Thorfinnsson
    He's a bioleninist. Why wouldn't he?

    Elsewhere in his article he states:

    Poor Chinese children outscore American children in PISA tests.
     
    Only a completely ignorant bioleninist would consider this fact noteworthy at all.

    You are aware of the predictive power of IQ scores taken at age 12, I assume?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    Yes, which is indicative of your bioleninist ignorance.

    Chinese, being Northeast Asians, have a genetically higher IQ than Americans. Actual Americans are white (~5 IQ points below Northeast Asians), and of course of school age children nearly half of those resident in America are not white and are much duller (admittedly some are themselves Northeast Asians and high caste Indians, but they're outnumbered by dull blacks and various hispanics).

    Thus the superior educational achievement of Chinese versus Americans is not noteworthy in any way whatsoever.

    It would in fact be shocking if this was not the case.

    That you thought this was in any way noteworthy is a damning indictment of you and betrays stunning ignorance for a dissident, let alone one published on the Unz Review where such facts are readily available.
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  100. @Tyrion 2
    GDP purchasing power parity per capita....yay China!

    64 Iran 20,030
    65 Mexico 19,480
    66 Lebanon 19,486
    67 Gabon 19,266
    68 Maldives 19,178
    69 Turkmenistan 18,680
    70 Belarus 18,616
    71 Botswana 18,146
    72 Thailand 17,786
    73 Barbados 17,508
    74 Montenegro 17,439
    75 Azerbaijan 17,433
    76 Costa Rica 17,149
    77 Iraq 17,004
    78 Dominican Republic 16,965
    79 China 16,624

    Also, it is a lot less fun than many of the basketcases that nonetheless have a higher average living standard.

    Your point being, presumably, that if a country with a low GDP/capita can eliminate hunger, homelessness and poverty, then why can’t we?

    I totally agree and suggest you ask your Congressman. Yeah, that’s the ticket.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    No, China has plenty of hunger, homelessness and poverty. Your graph is absurd.

    You identify only one source, that is the one for the American struggle. It is purely self-reported and includes such obvious red flags as 5.2% of US adults in 2013 whose household income level exceeds $90,000 a year somehow still claiming that "there have been times in the past 12 months where they lacked enough money to buy food that they needed"!

    Meanwhile, only slightly less ridiculously, your data for China is presumably your own imagination.

    , @Thorfinnsson
    Do you really think there is hunger in America? Have you walked around the country? Seen any suspiciously skinny people, anywhere?

    Good point on homelessness of course. I suggest sending homeless people to prison.

    Ending poverty is undesirable for reasons you can no doubt surmise.
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  101. Vidi says:
    @James Solbakken
    "Did you actually read Godfree’s article? China’s population actually increased during the Great Leap Forward."

    Did I say the population went down? No. Just because Mao couldn't murder them faster than they were being born does not mean he was a good guy.

    The Great Leap Forward was only one segment of Mao's 4 decade reign of terror. But I will admit that the violence is not really about Mao, per se, as it were, but rather about the wickedness of his communist Marxist philosophy. He believed, like ever Marxist, that expropriation and redistribution were good methods for running the world. The truth is expropriation and redistribution are evil and wicked and lead to catastrophic suffering for the average person. But not much suffering for the typical apparatchik, of course.

    Did I say the population went down? No. Just because Mao couldn’t murder them faster than they were being born does not mean he was a good guy.

    China had low rain for several years in a row, so people died from famine. Which doesn’t mean that Mao killed them. As usual, the Mao-haters spout fake news.

    Perhaps the people could have been saved if Mao could have borrowed money to import food from abroad, but China was not allowed to borrow: she was sanctioned by the U.S. We could probably blame America more than Mao for the death of all those Chinese.

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  102. @Bill

    So far, everything checks out.
     
    Are the poor Chinese who allegedly do have enough to eat more or less obese than the poor Americans who allegedly do not have enough to eat?

    I’ve been walking around downtown San Francisco lately, stepping over sleeping people and smelling their urine everywhere.

    Funny thing, not one was obese. Weird, huh?

    Read More
    • Replies: @FKA Max
    I believe one would classify your experience in San Francisco as "anecdotal evidence".

    Here a study on the subject matter: http://www.unz.com/article/chinas-human-rights-gap/#comment-2456543

    Plus, drug addicts are usually underweight:

    Effects of Drug and Alcohol Use on Weight Change

    https://drugabuse.com/guides/substance-abuse-and-weight-change/images/xgraph3.jpg.pagespeed.ic.-ydrBJvwVp.jpg


    The effects of drug abuse on weight

    Recreational, illicit, and prescription medication all influence various mental processes. Certain drugs may cause temporary cognitive impairments after taking just a single dose. If this happens a person may forget to eat properly, begin to lose weight and develop dangerously low blood sugar. Individuals who begin to abuse drugs may eventually suffer from permanent impairments in brain activity as well as physical changes that lead to dramatic weight loss and poor health.
    [...]
    Opiates
    [...]
    Side effects such as these can lead to a decrease in appetite, slowed digestion and weight loss, over time. In addition, opiate dependence and, especially, addiction can often result in dramatic weight loss when people begin to engage in drug seeking behavior more often than eating properly.
    [...]
    Heroin
    [...]
    Prolonged use, and the subsequent repeated cycle of euphoria/drowsiness results in the development of irregular eating habits or forgetting to eat altogether. Long-term opiate abuse also leads to extensive organ damage and disease, which is typically associated with weight loss.
     
    - https://drugabuse.com/guides/substance-abuse-and-weight-change/

    Drugs give one a much stronger dopamine hit than food:

    Levels of dopamine that you get from food, sex and drugs compared


    https://d14rmgtrwzf5a.cloudfront.net/sites/default/files/images/colorbox/aslide20.gif

    https://d14rmgtrwzf5a.cloudfront.net/sites/default/files/images/colorbox/aslide22.gif

    Source: https://www.unz.com/isteve/guardian-why-genetic-iq-differences-between-races-are-unlikely/#comment-2319710
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  103. @Art
    For the last 1,000 years the Chinese have been practicing Confusion philosophy, and have starved.

    The West has been practicing Christian philosophy, and has thrived.

    Today the Chinese have stolen what the West created, and they are doing very well. Within decades the Chinese will return to their old ways, and the golden goose of the West’s thinking will be crushed. It is already happening. The commie party with its for life dictator are ever more crushing dissent.

    Most all the bad things that this article says about America are true. America is in a dark place. Its Western values have been supplanted with Jew coercion. Greedy narcistic Jew individualism has overtaken the Wests sense of responsible community.

    Christianity will come back and defeat the Jews.

    Think Peace --- Do No Harm --- Art

    Let’s discuss your points one at a time:

    1. For the last 1,000 years the Chinese have been practicing Confusion philosophy, and have starved. That’s why there are 1.4 billion of them, presumably, still practicing Confucian philosophy, of course. Their serious starvation problems started 250 years ago–when we showed up.

    2. The West has been practicing Christian philosophy, and has thrived. Seven, is it? Seven wars the West is waging right now? While it has more homeless, hungry and imprisoned people than China?

    3. Today the Chinese have stolen what the West created, and they are doing very well. One percent, at most, of China’s IP is of doubtful provenance. The rest is indigenous or licensed. Check the TRIPS court records. Nicholas Lardy of the Peterson Institute of International Economics points out, “China’s payments of licensing fees and royalties for the use of foreign technology have soared in recent years, reaching almost $30 billion last year, nearly a four-fold increase over the last decade.” In fact, Lardy continues, “China probably ranks second globally in the magnitude of licensing fees paid for technology used within national borders.” https://piie.com/newsroom/short-videos/how-much-china-paying-foreign-technology

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art
    (China) Their serious starvation problems started 250 years ago–when we showed up.

    Hmm’ - does that suggest a weak culture with weak individuals and incompetent leaders? (The Japanese coped.)

    Seven wars the West is waging right now? While it has more homeless, hungry and imprisoned people than China?

    First I agree --- then I have a one-word answer – JEWS!

    One percent, at most, of China’s IP is of doubtful provenance.

    Sorry – but ALL of China’s IP is stolen – digital IP was created in the West. Every computer in China is a Western derivative.

    Think Peace --- Art
    , @Erebus

    One percent, at most, of China’s IP is of doubtful provenance. The rest is indigenous or licensed.
     
    I doubt this.
    One wonders how much of this is effectively profit repatriation by large foreign m such as Siemens, Mercedes, Toyota, Samsung etc being disguised as technology and brand licencing payments for tax reasons. IOWs, the inverse of what the PIIE article is saying about Ireland and Netherlands.

    I'd venture that the vast bulk of that $30B is just for the big boys. Experience says they have zero respect for each others' IP, and even less for foreigners'. 30 minutes on TaoBao or in LuoHu market at the Hong Kong border will tell you that copying is endemic amongst China's numberless small manufacturers.

    This is particularly true in Industrial Design and Design Engineering, where the Chinese are sorely weak for a variety of cultural reasons.

    Having said that, it's important to note that patents are valid only in the countries that they're registered in, and have a legal impact on Chinese (or any) copies only in the event that a violating product is exported to a country where the patent has been registered. That is, it's theft in the legal sense only in those countries where the patent is registered (or is effectively recognized as such) by treaty. Everywhere else, the innovation is fair game.

    Interestingly, during the cold war the USSR registered quite a few American patents, particularly in the military field precisely to prevent the Americans from stealing/copying the innovation for themselves through espionage or defections. Perhaps even more interestingly, in the main their patents were respected.
    , @FB
    Mr. Roberts... that comment by 'Fart' ...is lifted directly from Mein Kampf...

    '...Everything we admire on this earth today-science and art, technology and inventions-is only the creative product of a few peoples and originally perhaps of one race. On them depends the existence of this whole culture. If they perish, the beauty of this earth will sink into the grave with them...'

    '...If beginning today all further Aryan influence on Japan should stop, assuming that Europe and America should perish, Japan’s present rise in science and technology might continue for a short time; but even in a few years the well would dry up, the Japanese special character would gain, but the present culture would freeze and sink back into the slumber from which it was awakened seven decades ago by the wave of Aryan culture...'
     
    Just so you know where the tree monkey 'Fart' is coming from...
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  104. Ivan says:
    @FKA Max
    Have you seen this mini-docu, yet?

    American Fast Food Took Over Kuwait And Made Its People Obese: VICE on HBO

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyMTSvVAtWM

    When the lard is laid on by the Kuwaiti government itself. When all work at home is done by maids, all office work done by foreigners, when Kuwaitis get whatever qualifications they have from degree mills if at all, when everything is geared to producing generations of lard asses, why blame American fast food?

    Read More
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  105. @CJ
    Everybody else can argue about China. I'm only going to talk about that graph that shows four times as many Americans as Chinese can't afford enough food to eat. It is impossible to travel widely through the USA and believe that there are any functional people who aren't getting enough to eat. What strikes you more are all the dysfunctional people who clearly eat too much.

    How can you believe anything else in there after you see that graph?

    Belief is unnecessary in this case: just go to the source of the information and check their methodology which, if it is a reputable agency, it makes available on line.

    If you want to know more email the project director, who will always reply, and ask just how and where those figures came from and whether they are comparable, given what you’ve observed.

    Sometimes it really pays off! I tracked down the source of a much-used chart on a Chinese famine to an Irish professor who was amazed that anyone based a chart on his opinions because, he wrote, “I know nothing about China”.

    BTW, People on both coasts in the US often ask me for money to buy food. That has never happened to me in China, where I spend all my time on foot.

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  106. @James Solbakken
    "Did you actually read Godfree’s article? China’s population actually increased during the Great Leap Forward."

    Did I say the population went down? No. Just because Mao couldn't murder them faster than they were being born does not mean he was a good guy.

    The Great Leap Forward was only one segment of Mao's 4 decade reign of terror. But I will admit that the violence is not really about Mao, per se, as it were, but rather about the wickedness of his communist Marxist philosophy. He believed, like ever Marxist, that expropriation and redistribution were good methods for running the world. The truth is expropriation and redistribution are evil and wicked and lead to catastrophic suffering for the average person. But not much suffering for the typical apparatchik, of course.

    Do you actually know anything about China or are you operating on beliefs? WTF do beliefs have to do with anything except crackpot religions? Ignore the rhetoric. Face the facts.

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  107. @larjo
    As a Christian priest, I have to protest the commentary in the article about an elevation of the individual above family and community being a Christian value. There is a balance and, yes, unlike in other views the individual actually matters, but the Bible had a lot to say about setting aside ourselves, living as family, and seeing after the larger Christian body and community. The idolization of the individual above all else is a fringe notion.

    Sure, that’s in-life social advice, and appropriate, but it has nothing to do with the individual soul in transcendent relation to the Divine. That’s the nitty-gritty.

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  108. @Anonymous
    China has major problems. This article ignores all of them.

    It's too much to refute in such a small space. I have not the incentive nor the time.

    Investigate for yourself subjects such as economic inequality, industrial and chemical waste, air pollution, smog, water pollution, trash disposal and landfill management, construction failures, the rate of HIV, closet homosexuality, execution for minor offenses, dismal treatment of women etc....... Use your imagination.

    Do your own research.

    Godfree is blowing smoke up your ass.

    Why no do a little yourself? Share what you find?

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  109. @James N. Kennett
    The most remarkable aspect of the figure is the sudden drop in hungry Chinese people between 2009 and 2010. It is true that Chinese GDP had high growth in that year, but this was also true for most other years. Is there any particular reason for the sudden change?

    The drop is significant because it accounts for most of the difference between the USA and China since 2009.

    It’s on my list of questions to ask Justin Lin Yifu. Is it an anomaly, a change of methodology? When I get an answer I’ll post it here.

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  110. Vidi says:
    @Art

    The West has been practicing Christian philosophy, and has thrived.

    The secular West has not thrived because of Christian Philosophy, but rather in spite of it.
     
    That is ridiculous – Western science came out of Christian universities that abounded in Western nations, with Christian philosophies. Western medicine came out of Christian hospitals.

    Christianity provided the family and social mores that allowed prosperity and stability.

    Was it perfect – clearly not --- but it was profoundly better than all the others.

    Think Peace --- Art

    The secular West has not thrived because of Christian Philosophy, but rather in spite of it.

    That is ridiculous – Western science came out of Christian universities that abounded in Western nations, with Christian philosophies. Western medicine came out of Christian hospitals.

    So Plato and Aristotle were Christians?

    How about the four great inventions from China, which profoundly changed the world; were their inventors Christian?

    Just in case you doubt that China’s Four Great Inventions were overwhelmingly influential, here’s a quote from one of the West’s first scientists:

    Printing, gunpowder and the compass: These three have changed the whole face and state of things throughout the world; the first in literature, the second in warfare, the third in navigation; whence have followed innumerable changes, in so much that no empire, no sect, no star seems to have exerted greater power and influence in human affairs than these mechanical discoveries.

    – Francis Bacon, Novum Organum, 1620.

    Without the Four Great Inventions, the West would probably still be in the very Christian Dark Ages.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Vidi
    Francis Bacon wrote:

    no empire, no sect, no star seems to have exerted greater power and influence in human affairs than [printing, gunpowder, and the compass]
     
    (emphasis added)

    I just noticed: Bacon seems to have rated China's great inventions (printing, gunpowder, and the compass) as having more impact on the world than any sect, like Christianity.

    , @Art
    Just in case you doubt that China’s Four Great Inventions were overwhelmingly influential, here’s a quote from one of the West’s first scientists:

    Vidi,

    Those things died in China --- while Christianity put them to productive work.

    It is amazing how many people hate Christianity these days. Hmm. Must be weak minds that blow with the wind.

    They have bought into the Jews hate for Jesus. How sad for everyone.

    True the bathwater is dirty --- but the Christian baby has grown to be productive. Billions of people around the globe want what Christianity produced.

    These poor fools cannot see and assess the whole picture. They diminish themselves.

    Think Peace --- Do No Harm --- Art
    , @FB
    Add to that also the Chinese invention of the stirrup...which, while seemingly modest, turned out to be a transformational technology...making the mounted warrior supreme, especially the heavy cavalry...

    '...Some scholars credit the birth of feudalism and its subsequent spread into Northern Italy, Spain, Germany and into the Slavic territories to this use of the stirrup. It is argued that the rising feudal class structure of the European Middle Ages derived ultimately from the use of stirrups:

    "Few inventions have been so simple as the stirrup, but few have had so catalytic an influence on history. The requirements of the new mode of warfare which it made possible found expression in a new form of western European society dominated by an aristocracy of warriors endowed with land so that they might fight in a new and highly specialized way."
     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Stirrup_Controversy#White's_hypothesis
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  111. FKA Max says: • Website
    @Godfree Roberts
    I've been walking around downtown San Francisco lately, stepping over sleeping people and smelling their urine everywhere.

    Funny thing, not one was obese. Weird, huh?

    I believe one would classify your experience in San Francisco as “anecdotal evidence”.

    Here a study on the subject matter: http://www.unz.com/article/chinas-human-rights-gap/#comment-2456543

    Plus, drug addicts are usually underweight:

    Effects of Drug and Alcohol Use on Weight Change

    [MORE]

    The effects of drug abuse on weight

    Recreational, illicit, and prescription medication all influence various mental processes. Certain drugs may cause temporary cognitive impairments after taking just a single dose. If this happens a person may forget to eat properly, begin to lose weight and develop dangerously low blood sugar. Individuals who begin to abuse drugs may eventually suffer from permanent impairments in brain activity as well as physical changes that lead to dramatic weight loss and poor health.
    [...]
    Opiates
    [...]
    Side effects such as these can lead to a decrease in appetite, slowed digestion and weight loss, over time. In addition, opiate dependence and, especially, addiction can often result in dramatic weight loss when people begin to engage in drug seeking behavior more often than eating properly.
    [...]
    Heroin
    [...]
    Prolonged use, and the subsequent repeated cycle of euphoria/drowsiness results in the development of irregular eating habits or forgetting to eat altogether. Long-term opiate abuse also leads to extensive organ damage and disease, which is typically associated with weight loss.

    https://drugabuse.com/guides/substance-abuse-and-weight-change/

    Drugs give one a much stronger dopamine hit than food:

    Levels of dopamine that you get from food, sex and drugs compared

    Source: https://www.unz.com/isteve/guardian-why-genetic-iq-differences-between-races-are-unlikely/#comment-2319710

    Read More
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  112. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Godfree Roberts
    Your point being, presumably, that if a country with a low GDP/capita can eliminate hunger, homelessness and poverty, then why can't we?

    I totally agree and suggest you ask your Congressman. Yeah, that's the ticket.

    No, China has plenty of hunger, homelessness and poverty. Your graph is absurd.

    You identify only one source, that is the one for the American struggle. It is purely self-reported and includes such obvious red flags as 5.2% of US adults in 2013 whose household income level exceeds $90,000 a year somehow still claiming that “there have been times in the past 12 months where they lacked enough money to buy food that they needed”!

    Meanwhile, only slightly less ridiculously, your data for China is presumably your own imagination.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
    These data are based on more than 36,000 interviews conducted as part of the Gallup-Healthways Well-Being Index with adults aged 18 to 50 from Jan. 1-June 27, 2013. Over this time period, 23% of all Americans aged 18 to 50 reported struggling to afford food. However, the large majority of all Americans do not report struggling to afford food.
    https://news.gallup.com/poll/163544/single-parent-households-struggle-buy-food.aspx

    Fifteen percent of U.S. adults reported in the first quarter of 2016 that there have been times in the past 12 months when they did not have enough money to buy food that they or their family needed. This is the lowest percentage of Americans experiencing food hardship in any quarter since Gallup and Healthways began tracking this measure in 2008.
    https://news.gallup.com/poll/191801/percentage-struggling-afford-food-new-low.aspx

    Of the 45 high-income countries in our 2017 sample, Japan has the lowest food insecurity at 1%, while Uruguay has the highest at 28%. Only 19 countries have levels of food insecurity lower than 10%, meaning that one in 10 children in these countries lack access to safe, sufficient and nutritious foods. The United Kingdom and United States are among the high-income countries that perform the poorest, with approximately one in five children living with a food insecure adult.


    Prevalence and Correlates of Food Insecurity among Children Across the Gobi. UNICEF. https://www.unicef-irc.org/publications/pdf/IWP_2017_09.pdf
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  113. Vidi says:
    @Vidi


    The secular West has not thrived because of Christian Philosophy, but rather in spite of it.
     
    That is ridiculous – Western science came out of Christian universities that abounded in Western nations, with Christian philosophies. Western medicine came out of Christian hospitals.
     
    So Plato and Aristotle were Christians?

    How about the four great inventions from China, which profoundly changed the world; were their inventors Christian?

    Just in case you doubt that China's Four Great Inventions were overwhelmingly influential, here's a quote from one of the West's first scientists:


    Printing, gunpowder and the compass: These three have changed the whole face and state of things throughout the world; the first in literature, the second in warfare, the third in navigation; whence have followed innumerable changes, in so much that no empire, no sect, no star seems to have exerted greater power and influence in human affairs than these mechanical discoveries.

    -- Francis Bacon, Novum Organum, 1620.
     

    Without the Four Great Inventions, the West would probably still be in the very Christian Dark Ages.

    Francis Bacon wrote:

    no empire, no sect, no star seems to have exerted greater power and influence in human affairs than [printing, gunpowder, and the compass]

    (emphasis added)

    I just noticed: Bacon seems to have rated China’s great inventions (printing, gunpowder, and the compass) as having more impact on the world than any sect, like Christianity.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art
    I just noticed: Bacon seems to have rated China’s great inventions (printing, gunpowder, and the compass) as having more impact on the world than any sect, like Christianity.

    Vidi,

    Roger Bacon --- 1219/20 – c. 1292 -- the West was just getting started.

    Think Peace --- Art
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  114. Art says:
    @Anonymous
    Modern science came from Europe's rediscovery of long suppressed Greek philosophy, i.e., the Enlightement, especially the rediscovery of the atomist and naturalist philosopher Epicurus (via his follower Lucretius' poem De Rerum Natura), in spite of Christianity's howling resistance to reality.

    Of course, Christian SJWs --and they were the original SJWs--have their own just-so goddidit narrative. The midwit St. Paul mocked Epicurus' atomic theory in the Bible. Yes, "atom" ἀτόμῳ (atomō) is in the Jew Testament. Ask yourself why you don't know where, and have to look it up.

    Modern science came from Europe’s rediscovery of long suppressed Greek philosophy,

    (570),

    Oh my’ sour grapes’ – it happened in Christian schools.

    You have 10,000 reasons against it working – but it worked – didn’t it.

    It is the best — Christian Western culture!

    When we defeat the Jews, it will work again – even better then before.

    Think Peace — Do No Harm — Maintain Hope, Love, Life, Truth, & Idealism — Art

    Read More
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  115. @Tyrion 2
    No, China has plenty of hunger, homelessness and poverty. Your graph is absurd.

    You identify only one source, that is the one for the American struggle. It is purely self-reported and includes such obvious red flags as 5.2% of US adults in 2013 whose household income level exceeds $90,000 a year somehow still claiming that "there have been times in the past 12 months where they lacked enough money to buy food that they needed"!

    Meanwhile, only slightly less ridiculously, your data for China is presumably your own imagination.

    These data are based on more than 36,000 interviews conducted as part of the Gallup-Healthways Well-Being Index with adults aged 18 to 50 from Jan. 1-June 27, 2013. Over this time period, 23% of all Americans aged 18 to 50 reported struggling to afford food. However, the large majority of all Americans do not report struggling to afford food.

    https://news.gallup.com/poll/163544/single-parent-households-struggle-buy-food.aspx

    Fifteen percent of U.S. adults reported in the first quarter of 2016 that there have been times in the past 12 months when they did not have enough money to buy food that they or their family needed. This is the lowest percentage of Americans experiencing food hardship in any quarter since Gallup and Healthways began tracking this measure in 2008.

    https://news.gallup.com/poll/191801/percentage-struggling-afford-food-new-low.aspx

    Of the 45 high-income countries in our 2017 sample, Japan has the lowest food insecurity at 1%, while Uruguay has the highest at 28%. Only 19 countries have levels of food insecurity lower than 10%, meaning that one in 10 children in these countries lack access to safe, sufficient and nutritious foods. The United Kingdom and United States are among the high-income countries that perform the poorest, with approximately one in five children living with a food insecure adult.

    Prevalence and Correlates of Food Insecurity among Children Across the Gobi. UNICEF. https://www.unicef-irc.org/publications/pdf/IWP_2017_09.pdf

    Read More
    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    I assume you know that your reply is entirely irrelevant to my post? It answers absolutely none of it.

    Furthermore, your insertion of the example of Japan is interestingly paralleled by their non conviction rate upon a criminal going to trial - almost certainly determined by the same face-saving cultural factors.

    Having said, Japan has got an awful lot right.
    , @FB
    Mr. Roberts...just so you know 'Tyrion 2' is a high school punk living with his parents in the UK...who I feel very sorry for...[the parents, not the punk]

    I know this from reading his blog, which he no longer links to...and in which he describes a free trip he had to Israel for high-schoolers...and then proceeds to bad-mouth a Holocaust survivor who led a lecture at Yad Vashem...mocking this woman for relating her positive experiences with communism...
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  116. Read More
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  117. @Anonymous
    Communism is a kike philosophy straight outta the Jew Testament.

    "Not one of them claimed that anything belonging to him was his own, but all things were common property to them...and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need." Acts 4:32-35
     
    Kikes loved Christ. If you can believe the Jew Testament.

    He taught regularly in their synagogues and was praised by everyone. Luke 4:15
     
    Jesus is like Trotsky.

    The Soviet Communists eventually hated Trotsky, and had him assassinated too. By your midwit "logic" we we all must all become Trotskyites, because, hey, Communists hated him and had him killed and we hate Communists, so we love Trotsky!!!! LOL

    You're stupid enough to insert yourself into Jewish infighting and pick a side. That takes a true moron.

    My two cents:
    Communism actually works for community. But in type of community where everybody knows everybody.
    So I would estimate the community of about 2 hundred people max.
    Communism cannot work for larger community, where people do not know each other.
    So communism certainly cannot work for states.

    PS. Trotsky was the leader of internationalists (mostly Jews) Stalin was nationalist so Stalin won because of his ties to military. He did not wont to kill Trotsky because he had respect for Trotsky’ s
    contribution to the revolution.
    Trotsky’s death had nothing to do with ideology. Trotsky did not have money, or he did not want to pay his Mexican housekeeper. So the Mexican in his fury after the argument took an axe and split Trotsky’s head.

    Read More
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  118. Art says:
    @Vidi


    The secular West has not thrived because of Christian Philosophy, but rather in spite of it.
     
    That is ridiculous – Western science came out of Christian universities that abounded in Western nations, with Christian philosophies. Western medicine came out of Christian hospitals.
     
    So Plato and Aristotle were Christians?

    How about the four great inventions from China, which profoundly changed the world; were their inventors Christian?

    Just in case you doubt that China's Four Great Inventions were overwhelmingly influential, here's a quote from one of the West's first scientists:


    Printing, gunpowder and the compass: These three have changed the whole face and state of things throughout the world; the first in literature, the second in warfare, the third in navigation; whence have followed innumerable changes, in so much that no empire, no sect, no star seems to have exerted greater power and influence in human affairs than these mechanical discoveries.

    -- Francis Bacon, Novum Organum, 1620.
     

    Without the Four Great Inventions, the West would probably still be in the very Christian Dark Ages.

    Just in case you doubt that China’s Four Great Inventions were overwhelmingly influential, here’s a quote from one of the West’s first scientists:

    Vidi,

    Those things died in China — while Christianity put them to productive work.

    It is amazing how many people hate Christianity these days. Hmm. Must be weak minds that blow with the wind.

    They have bought into the Jews hate for Jesus. How sad for everyone.

    True the bathwater is dirty — but the Christian baby has grown to be productive. Billions of people around the globe want what Christianity produced.

    These poor fools cannot see and assess the whole picture. They diminish themselves.

    Think Peace — Do No Harm — Art

    Read More
    • Replies: @Vidi

    These things died in China — while Christianity put them to productive work.
     
    The Four Great Inventions did not die in China. They were probably the major reason China has been more prosperous than the West for most of the last 1000 years. The West overtook China in recent centuries perhaps because of two accidents of geography: the Atlantic ocean is only half the size of the Pacific, and on top of this the trade winds favor the Atlantic sailing ships.

    It is amazing how many people hate Christianity these days.
     
    No hate from me. But an adverse reaction to people who obnoxiously dump on the achievements of non-Christians.
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  119. Art says:
    @Vidi
    Francis Bacon wrote:

    no empire, no sect, no star seems to have exerted greater power and influence in human affairs than [printing, gunpowder, and the compass]
     
    (emphasis added)

    I just noticed: Bacon seems to have rated China's great inventions (printing, gunpowder, and the compass) as having more impact on the world than any sect, like Christianity.

    I just noticed: Bacon seems to have rated China’s great inventions (printing, gunpowder, and the compass) as having more impact on the world than any sect, like Christianity.

    Vidi,

    Roger Bacon — 1219/20 – c. 1292 — the West was just getting started.

    Think Peace — Art

    Read More
    • Replies: @Vidi


    I just noticed: Bacon seems to have rated China’s great inventions (printing, gunpowder, and the compass) as having more impact on the world than any sect, like Christianity.
     
    Roger Bacon — 1219/20 – c. 1292 — the West was just getting started.
     
    That is why I was referring to the great Renaissance scholar Francis Bacon (1561 - 1626). He lived the huge changes caused by China's four great inventions. He knew their worth -- and judged them of more impact than any sect (like Christianity).
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  120. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Godfree Roberts
    These data are based on more than 36,000 interviews conducted as part of the Gallup-Healthways Well-Being Index with adults aged 18 to 50 from Jan. 1-June 27, 2013. Over this time period, 23% of all Americans aged 18 to 50 reported struggling to afford food. However, the large majority of all Americans do not report struggling to afford food.
    https://news.gallup.com/poll/163544/single-parent-households-struggle-buy-food.aspx

    Fifteen percent of U.S. adults reported in the first quarter of 2016 that there have been times in the past 12 months when they did not have enough money to buy food that they or their family needed. This is the lowest percentage of Americans experiencing food hardship in any quarter since Gallup and Healthways began tracking this measure in 2008.
    https://news.gallup.com/poll/191801/percentage-struggling-afford-food-new-low.aspx

    Of the 45 high-income countries in our 2017 sample, Japan has the lowest food insecurity at 1%, while Uruguay has the highest at 28%. Only 19 countries have levels of food insecurity lower than 10%, meaning that one in 10 children in these countries lack access to safe, sufficient and nutritious foods. The United Kingdom and United States are among the high-income countries that perform the poorest, with approximately one in five children living with a food insecure adult.


    Prevalence and Correlates of Food Insecurity among Children Across the Gobi. UNICEF. https://www.unicef-irc.org/publications/pdf/IWP_2017_09.pdf

    I assume you know that your reply is entirely irrelevant to my post? It answers absolutely none of it.

    Furthermore, your insertion of the example of Japan is interestingly paralleled by their non conviction rate upon a criminal going to trial – almost certainly determined by the same face-saving cultural factors.

    Having said, Japan has got an awful lot right.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
    Yes, Japan's conviction rate is determined by cultural factors, but they have nothing to do with saving face. Both systems begin with crime prevention at home, early indoctrination into the culture of respect 'for I have yet to see a man who is respectful of his older brother, father and uncles who causes rouble' as Confucius observed.

    The entire community is involved in preventing people from slipping into crime and relatives, workmates and classmates will address miscreants early and often.

    But if he persists, and actually chooses crime, then the community (including his family) will turn him over to the police and testify against him. He's an outcast.

    Very few people make it to that level of depravity and the police only intervene when everything else has failed.

    At that point, the culturally smart thing to do is make a full confession and throw yourself on the mercy of the court.

    Nor is this a cold-hearted abandonment of criminals. Both systems work hard to reform them while they're in prison, which is why China has the lowest recidivism rate on earth.

    P.S., My anecdote about hunger and homelessness in SF was designed to jolt people into reality: nobody has seen a beggar in a Chinese city since 2016 and that's what the stats say, too. Everyone who's been there has encountered dozens of beggars in SF, LA and NYC, and that's what the stats say, too.

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  121. Vidi says:
    @Art
    Just in case you doubt that China’s Four Great Inventions were overwhelmingly influential, here’s a quote from one of the West’s first scientists:

    Vidi,

    Those things died in China --- while Christianity put them to productive work.

    It is amazing how many people hate Christianity these days. Hmm. Must be weak minds that blow with the wind.

    They have bought into the Jews hate for Jesus. How sad for everyone.

    True the bathwater is dirty --- but the Christian baby has grown to be productive. Billions of people around the globe want what Christianity produced.

    These poor fools cannot see and assess the whole picture. They diminish themselves.

    Think Peace --- Do No Harm --- Art

    These things died in China — while Christianity put them to productive work.

    The Four Great Inventions did not die in China. They were probably the major reason China has been more prosperous than the West for most of the last 1000 years. The West overtook China in recent centuries perhaps because of two accidents of geography: the Atlantic ocean is only half the size of the Pacific, and on top of this the trade winds favor the Atlantic sailing ships.

    It is amazing how many people hate Christianity these days.

    No hate from me. But an adverse reaction to people who obnoxiously dump on the achievements of non-Christians.

    Read More
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  122. Vidi says:
    @Art
    I just noticed: Bacon seems to have rated China’s great inventions (printing, gunpowder, and the compass) as having more impact on the world than any sect, like Christianity.

    Vidi,

    Roger Bacon --- 1219/20 – c. 1292 -- the West was just getting started.

    Think Peace --- Art

    I just noticed: Bacon seems to have rated China’s great inventions (printing, gunpowder, and the compass) as having more impact on the world than any sect, like Christianity.

    Roger Bacon — 1219/20 – c. 1292 — the West was just getting started.

    That is why I was referring to the great Renaissance scholar Francis Bacon (1561 – 1626). He lived the huge changes caused by China’s four great inventions. He knew their worth — and judged them of more impact than any sect (like Christianity).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art
    Francis Bacon (1561 – 1626) He lived the huge changes caused by China’s four great inventions. He knew their worth — and judged them of more impact than any sect (like Christianity).

    Vidi,

    Isaac Newton (1642–1726/1727) -- poor Francis, he died just before the greatest, most productive science to ever occur.

    Newton was a Christian - he went to Christian schools - his nation was Christian. Unlike China, his nation and culture valued discovery. What happened to China and what happened to the Christian West in the next 500 years?

    Think Peace --- Art
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  123. Bill P says:
    @D
    It's an open secret that most, if not all, of the long-term western expats in China are losers back home (LBH). They depend on China as their source of income and women who would sleep with them, but they also typically display contempt for the Chinese people and wish for the destruction of the Chinese nation.

    Bullshit. Most long term expats prefer life in China and probably prefer China to the USA. That’s why they’re long term.

    I’ve known quite a few. I couldn’t stomach the place nearly as well as they could. I couldn’t defend it like they do. Chinese should cultivate them, because they are way more Sinophilic than your average American ever could be.

    And yet Chinese trash them as losers, which to me says, yeah maybe they are, because for all their love for China they still get trashed and put up with it.

    And another thing… Why is it so much easier for them to get laid in China despite them being such “losers?” What does that say about China? Nothing good, I know that.

    It’s not entirely true anyway. Beautiful Chinese women are hard to get in China, and ordinary white girls are not so hard in the US or Europe.

    The thing is that a lot of these expat “losers” prefer the Chinese aesthetic. Although I differ from them in this regard, I can understand it. There’s something beguiling and sublime about the Chinese ideal. Sometimes when I’m alone I like to listen to Chinese traditional music and have a few drinks. It’s a nice feeling, and it makes the world a better place.

    But at the same time if my homeland were in danger of being Sinicized I’d be horrified and I’d fight it. Your loser expats, on the other hand, would not. They already live it and that’s what they prefer. And still you demean them and call them losers. This just gives me all the more reason to resist Sinicization. I’m not going to let my kids be subjugated by people who look down on and hate them.

    Read More
    • Replies: @D
    You are mistaken if you think the expats love China. If there is anything they prefer about life in China, it's the rock star celebrity treatment they get from the idiot locals who think being white automatically means better.

    And yes, most of the long-term expats are indeed losers back home. They don't really have a marketable skill so they go to China (or some other country in Asia) and make a living by basically being white. By rights they should be nothing more than dishwashers or fruit pickers, just like a non-skilled immigrant would be in America, but since they're white they get to do something reasonably respectable like teaching English. That said, the reputation of these LBHs in Asia has become so bad in Asia that "English teacher" is now something of a disparaging label in Asia by association. These days, no self-respecting expat in Asia wants to be known as an English teacher.
    , @D
    And what's the deal with this "resist Sinicization" business? I didn't know America was in danger of becoming a Chinese nation. But if you think being subjugated by a people who look down on and hate you is bad, maybe you have some understanding of what it's like for non-white people to live in a world dominated by whites.
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  124. @Tyrion 2
    I assume you know that your reply is entirely irrelevant to my post? It answers absolutely none of it.

    Furthermore, your insertion of the example of Japan is interestingly paralleled by their non conviction rate upon a criminal going to trial - almost certainly determined by the same face-saving cultural factors.

    Having said, Japan has got an awful lot right.

    Yes, Japan’s conviction rate is determined by cultural factors, but they have nothing to do with saving face. Both systems begin with crime prevention at home, early indoctrination into the culture of respect ‘for I have yet to see a man who is respectful of his older brother, father and uncles who causes rouble’ as Confucius observed.

    The entire community is involved in preventing people from slipping into crime and relatives, workmates and classmates will address miscreants early and often.

    But if he persists, and actually chooses crime, then the community (including his family) will turn him over to the police and testify against him. He’s an outcast.

    Very few people make it to that level of depravity and the police only intervene when everything else has failed.

    At that point, the culturally smart thing to do is make a full confession and throw yourself on the mercy of the court.

    Nor is this a cold-hearted abandonment of criminals. Both systems work hard to reform them while they’re in prison, which is why China has the lowest recidivism rate on earth.

    P.S., My anecdote about hunger and homelessness in SF was designed to jolt people into reality: nobody has seen a beggar in a Chinese city since 2016 and that’s what the stats say, too. Everyone who’s been there has encountered dozens of beggars in SF, LA and NYC, and that’s what the stats say, too.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Erebus

    ... nobody has seen a beggar in a Chinese city since 2016 and that’s what the stats say, too.
     
    Well, my experience of big Chinese cities says there's still a few, though much (as in an order of magnitude) less than previously. Not that I was paying attention at the time, but your citing of 2016 coincides with experience... they disappeared a couple of years ago.

    My thinking was that China's hyper-adoption of cashless payment systems meant a sudden dearth of cash on the street. In any case, the common wisdom was that most beggary was a business enterprise. There was no shortage of work available.

    Or did some governmental move in 2016 put them out of business?
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  125. @Godfree Roberts
    There are very few fora left on the Internet where we can discuss subjects like this. Why trash it with ad hominem?

    If you want to question something I've written, question it. If you want to offer evidence to contradict what I write, offer it.

    “If you want to question something I’ve written, question it. If you want to offer evidence to contradict what I write, offer it.”

    Yeah, sure, God-Free. You are not a flesh & blood human being, even if you are. You are some sort of Red Friggin’ Chinese troll-bot that is programmed to spew idiotic nonsense and stupid @$$-Klown bull-$hit.

    You are beneath contempt and not worthy to be taken seriously. This is not an ad hominem argument, it is a moral observation.

    Nice try, though, doofus, do spin again.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonymous
    He's not. Like Petras, he's just an old-line communist, who now supports the last and arguably only successful communist country in the world.

    Have some respect for people with ideology.
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  126. anonymous[179] • Disclaimer says:
    @James Solbakken
    "If you want to question something I’ve written, question it. If you want to offer evidence to contradict what I write, offer it."

    Yeah, sure, God-Free. You are not a flesh & blood human being, even if you are. You are some sort of Red Friggin' Chinese troll-bot that is programmed to spew idiotic nonsense and stupid @$$-Klown bull-$hit.

    You are beneath contempt and not worthy to be taken seriously. This is not an ad hominem argument, it is a moral observation.

    Nice try, though, doofus, do spin again.

    He’s not. Like Petras, he’s just an old-line communist, who now supports the last and arguably only successful communist country in the world.

    Have some respect for people with ideology.

    Read More
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  127. @Godfree Roberts
    You are aware of the predictive power of IQ scores taken at age 12, I assume?

    Yes, which is indicative of your bioleninist ignorance.

    Chinese, being Northeast Asians, have a genetically higher IQ than Americans. Actual Americans are white (~5 IQ points below Northeast Asians), and of course of school age children nearly half of those resident in America are not white and are much duller (admittedly some are themselves Northeast Asians and high caste Indians, but they’re outnumbered by dull blacks and various hispanics).

    Thus the superior educational achievement of Chinese versus Americans is not noteworthy in any way whatsoever.

    It would in fact be shocking if this was not the case.

    That you thought this was in any way noteworthy is a damning indictment of you and betrays stunning ignorance for a dissident, let alone one published on the Unz Review where such facts are readily available.

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  128. @Godfree Roberts
    Your point being, presumably, that if a country with a low GDP/capita can eliminate hunger, homelessness and poverty, then why can't we?

    I totally agree and suggest you ask your Congressman. Yeah, that's the ticket.

    Do you really think there is hunger in America? Have you walked around the country? Seen any suspiciously skinny people, anywhere?

    Good point on homelessness of course. I suggest sending homeless people to prison.

    Ending poverty is undesirable for reasons you can no doubt surmise.

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  129. jim jones says:

    China has never had a Democratic Government or any citizen rights. People live at the mercy of the ruling bureaucrats:

    https://reason.com/blog/2018/08/07/china-government-ai-weiwei-studio-demoli

    Read More
    • Replies: @denk
    pussies stand up to the CCP

    Real man stand up to the MIC.

    hhhhhhh

    http://sainthoward.blogspot.com/2014/12/putting-saints-in-jail.html
    , @Godfree Roberts
    China is a thriving democracy that applies popular voting to policies, not personalities. Read Selling Democracy to China, and weep: https://www.unz.com/article/selling-democracy-to-china/.

    And, as you saw when you read my article, China's people enjoy much better human rights than we do.
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  130. RedRobbo says:

    This is pure Newspeak.
    China is a brutal state capitalist dictatorship. Capitalist hallmarks, such as class society, commodity production, profit motive, exploitation of wage labour, markets, etc., exist there as they do worldwide. Further evidence is supplied by a recent article titled ‘Always Stay Professional’. Inside China’s Booming Butler Schools, Nothing But the Best Will Do’ (Time, 1 November, 2017). Here we learn that some of China’s 1,590,000 millionaires wish to live the life of Riley Downtown Abbey style! ‘Students pay 50,000 rmb ($7,500) for a six-week course on food presentation, how to iron shirts the proper way, and maintaining serene decorum at all times…. Students learn how to choose fine wine but also good Chinese liquor, teach tai chi, perform a tea ceremony and caddy on the golf course. For many, it’s another world.’ Indeed. ‘…15-hour days and endless drilling. How to clean a toilet, iron a tablecloth, use tape-measures and plastic blocks to get table placings perfectly aligned. It’s a regimen of burns, blisters and bottomless cups of coffee’. The Ju/’hoansi people work only 15 hours a week.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh

    The Ju/’hoansi people work only 15 hours a week.
     
    Yes, the !Kung people work very little. They're all gone, too.

    https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2014/12/22/371672272/the-khoisan-once-were-kings-of-the-planet-what-happened



    How do the Khoisan maintain their way of living today?

    The answer is they don't. We are seeing the end of their culture and their hunter-gatherer lifestyle, which is being replaced by herding and agriculture.

     

    In fact, every advancement of humanity has actually increased the number of hours of labor, with one exception: that maximal number of hours worked were in the early Industrial era. We work less than Victorians. But we still work more than even medieval peasants in hours sold away from our autonomy.
    , @Godfree Roberts
    Why not back up your allegations with evidence?

    Otherwise, you might be mistaken for a racist, or an imperialist, even a racist imperialist.

    95% of Chinese trust their government and the stats support them: it delivers what it promises, doesn't lie to them and protects their human rights better than ours.
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  131. Art says:
    @Vidi


    I just noticed: Bacon seems to have rated China’s great inventions (printing, gunpowder, and the compass) as having more impact on the world than any sect, like Christianity.
     
    Roger Bacon — 1219/20 – c. 1292 — the West was just getting started.
     
    That is why I was referring to the great Renaissance scholar Francis Bacon (1561 - 1626). He lived the huge changes caused by China's four great inventions. He knew their worth -- and judged them of more impact than any sect (like Christianity).

    Francis Bacon (1561 – 1626) He lived the huge changes caused by China’s four great inventions. He knew their worth — and judged them of more impact than any sect (like Christianity).

    Vidi,

    Isaac Newton (1642–1726/1727) — poor Francis, he died just before the greatest, most productive science to ever occur.

    Newton was a Christian – he went to Christian schools – his nation was Christian. Unlike China, his nation and culture valued discovery. What happened to China and what happened to the Christian West in the next 500 years?

    Think Peace — Art

    Read More
    • Replies: @Vidi

    Isaac Newton (1642–1726/1727) — poor Francis, he died just before the greatest, most productive science to ever occur.

    Newton was a Christian – he went to Christian schools – his nation was Christian. Unlike China, his nation and culture valued discovery.
     
    Newton himself said that he "stood on the shoulders of giants" -- who were mostly non-Christian (the old Greeks, the Arabs, and the Chinese).

    What happened to China and what happened to the Christian West in the next 500 years?
     
    I don't know. It has only been 300 years since Newton. Only in the last 200 years have Westerners advanced past China, when the Middle Kingdom was in one of its periodic downturns. China now is back, is contributing heavily to science, and is nowhere near a Christian culture.

    By the way, what is your opinion of Francis Bacon's statement, that the Chinese inventions had greater impact on the world than any sect (like Christianity)?
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  132. Art says:
    @Godfree Roberts
    Let's discuss your points one at a time:

    1. For the last 1,000 years the Chinese have been practicing Confusion philosophy, and have starved. That's why there are 1.4 billion of them, presumably, still practicing Confucian philosophy, of course. Their serious starvation problems started 250 years ago–when we showed up.

    2. The West has been practicing Christian philosophy, and has thrived. Seven, is it? Seven wars the West is waging right now? While it has more homeless, hungry and imprisoned people than China?

    3. Today the Chinese have stolen what the West created, and they are doing very well. One percent, at most, of China's IP is of doubtful provenance. The rest is indigenous or licensed. Check the TRIPS court records. Nicholas Lardy of the Peterson Institute of International Economics points out, “China’s payments of licensing fees and royalties for the use of foreign technology have soared in recent years, reaching almost $30 billion last year, nearly a four-fold increase over the last decade.” In fact, Lardy continues, “China probably ranks second globally in the magnitude of licensing fees paid for technology used within national borders.” https://piie.com/newsroom/short-videos/how-much-china-paying-foreign-technology

    (China) Their serious starvation problems started 250 years ago–when we showed up.

    Hmm’ – does that suggest a weak culture with weak individuals and incompetent leaders? (The Japanese coped.)

    Seven wars the West is waging right now? While it has more homeless, hungry and imprisoned people than China?

    First I agree — then I have a one-word answer – JEWS!

    One percent, at most, of China’s IP is of doubtful provenance.

    Sorry – but ALL of China’s IP is stolen – digital IP was created in the West. Every computer in China is a Western derivative.

    Think Peace — Art

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh

    Hmm’ – does that suggest a weak culture with weak individuals and incompetent leaders? (The Japanese coped.)

     

    The Japanese were not a conquered people of the Manchus at the time and far, far less aggression was directed at it compared to the Chinese.
    , @Vidi


    One percent, at most, of China’s IP is of doubtful provenance.
     
    Sorry – but ALL of China’s IP is stolen -
     
    All of China's IP is stolen? That is a very serious allegation. Prove it.

    Of course, you could be one of those people who use their private definitions of common words. What is your definition of "IP"?

    digital IP was created in the West.
     
    That's another argument. And digital IP is nowhere near all IP -- not by commonly understood definitions of Intellectual Property.

    Every computer in China is a Western derivative.
     
    Are you butt-hurt by the fact that a non-Christian country is now leading in the highest of the high technologies?
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  133. @RedRobbo
    This is pure Newspeak.
    China is a brutal state capitalist dictatorship. Capitalist hallmarks, such as class society, commodity production, profit motive, exploitation of wage labour, markets, etc., exist there as they do worldwide. Further evidence is supplied by a recent article titled 'Always Stay Professional'. Inside China's Booming Butler Schools, Nothing But the Best Will Do' (Time, 1 November, 2017). Here we learn that some of China's 1,590,000 millionaires wish to live the life of Riley Downtown Abbey style! 'Students pay 50,000 rmb ($7,500) for a six-week course on food presentation, how to iron shirts the proper way, and maintaining serene decorum at all times.... Students learn how to choose fine wine but also good Chinese liquor, teach tai chi, perform a tea ceremony and caddy on the golf course. For many, it’s another world.' Indeed. '...15-hour days and endless drilling. How to clean a toilet, iron a tablecloth, use tape-measures and plastic blocks to get table placings perfectly aligned. It’s a regimen of burns, blisters and bottomless cups of coffee'. The Ju/’hoansi people work only 15 hours a week.

    The Ju/’hoansi people work only 15 hours a week.

    Yes, the !Kung people work very little. They’re all gone, too.

    https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2014/12/22/371672272/the-khoisan-once-were-kings-of-the-planet-what-happened

    How do the Khoisan maintain their way of living today?

    The answer is they don’t. We are seeing the end of their culture and their hunter-gatherer lifestyle, which is being replaced by herding and agriculture.

    In fact, every advancement of humanity has actually increased the number of hours of labor, with one exception: that maximal number of hours worked were in the early Industrial era. We work less than Victorians. But we still work more than even medieval peasants in hours sold away from our autonomy.

    Read More
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  134. denk says:
    @jim jones
    China has never had a Democratic Government or any citizen rights. People live at the mercy of the ruling bureaucrats:

    https://reason.com/blog/2018/08/07/china-government-ai-weiwei-studio-demoli

    pussies stand up to the CCP

    Real man stand up to the MIC.

    hhhhhhh

    http://sainthoward.blogspot.com/2014/12/putting-saints-in-jail.html

    Read More
    • Replies: @denk
    Just in case.....

    Ai Weiwei is a patsy.

    Jim Jones is the pussy ...
    always so bold to stand up to CCP,
    [no consequence] ;-)

    Leave it to real man to stand up to the MIC.

    hhhhhh
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  135. denk says:
    @Art
    For the last 1,000 years the Chinese have been practicing Confusion philosophy, and have starved.

    The West has been practicing Christian philosophy, and has thrived.

    Today the Chinese have stolen what the West created, and they are doing very well. Within decades the Chinese will return to their old ways, and the golden goose of the West’s thinking will be crushed. It is already happening. The commie party with its for life dictator are ever more crushing dissent.

    Most all the bad things that this article says about America are true. America is in a dark place. Its Western values have been supplanted with Jew coercion. Greedy narcistic Jew individualism has overtaken the Wests sense of responsible community.

    Christianity will come back and defeat the Jews.

    Think Peace --- Do No Harm --- Art

    The West has been practicing Christian philosophy, and has thrived.

    Indeed,
    On the corpse of plundered countries.

    Uncle scam is entirely secular,
    it’ll bomb its own mother if there’s money to be made.
    Never mind fellow xtians.

    http://emperors-clothes.com/churchpics/list.htm

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art

    The West has been practicing Christian philosophy, and has thrived.

    Indeed,
    On the corpse of plundered countries.

    Uncle scam is entirely secular,
    it’ll bomb its own mother if there’s money to be made.
    Never mind fellow xtians.
     
    Indeed - the current US deep state government has nothing to do with Christianity.

    Think Peace --- Art
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  136. @Art
    (China) Their serious starvation problems started 250 years ago–when we showed up.

    Hmm’ - does that suggest a weak culture with weak individuals and incompetent leaders? (The Japanese coped.)

    Seven wars the West is waging right now? While it has more homeless, hungry and imprisoned people than China?

    First I agree --- then I have a one-word answer – JEWS!

    One percent, at most, of China’s IP is of doubtful provenance.

    Sorry – but ALL of China’s IP is stolen – digital IP was created in the West. Every computer in China is a Western derivative.

    Think Peace --- Art

    Hmm’ – does that suggest a weak culture with weak individuals and incompetent leaders? (The Japanese coped.)

    The Japanese were not a conquered people of the Manchus at the time and far, far less aggression was directed at it compared to the Chinese.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art

    Hmm’ – does that suggest a weak culture with weak individuals and incompetent leaders? (The Japanese coped.)

    The Japanese were not a conquered people of the Manchus at the time and far, far less aggression was directed at it compared to the Chinese.
     
    Hmm --- do those points sound like excuses that hide unpleasant thoughts?

    Think Peace --- Art
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  137. Vidi says:
    @Art
    Francis Bacon (1561 – 1626) He lived the huge changes caused by China’s four great inventions. He knew their worth — and judged them of more impact than any sect (like Christianity).

    Vidi,

    Isaac Newton (1642–1726/1727) -- poor Francis, he died just before the greatest, most productive science to ever occur.

    Newton was a Christian - he went to Christian schools - his nation was Christian. Unlike China, his nation and culture valued discovery. What happened to China and what happened to the Christian West in the next 500 years?

    Think Peace --- Art

    Isaac Newton (1642–1726/1727) — poor Francis, he died just before the greatest, most productive science to ever occur.

    Newton was a Christian – he went to Christian schools – his nation was Christian. Unlike China, his nation and culture valued discovery.

    Newton himself said that he “stood on the shoulders of giants” — who were mostly non-Christian (the old Greeks, the Arabs, and the Chinese).

    What happened to China and what happened to the Christian West in the next 500 years?

    I don’t know. It has only been 300 years since Newton. Only in the last 200 years have Westerners advanced past China, when the Middle Kingdom was in one of its periodic downturns. China now is back, is contributing heavily to science, and is nowhere near a Christian culture.

    By the way, what is your opinion of Francis Bacon’s statement, that the Chinese inventions had greater impact on the world than any sect (like Christianity)?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art
    By the way, what is your opinion of Francis Bacon’s statement, that the Chinese inventions had greater impact on the world than any sect (like Christianity)?

    Vidi,

    Clearly Francis Bacon was proven wrong.

    The invention of electricity was a thousand times more important then anything the Chinese did.

    The invention of Western medicine was another thousand times more important.

    Even if these inventors were atheists – their knowledge lived and thrived in the Christian culture.

    Think Peace --- Art

    p.s. Why do you hate your heritage - what is wrong with you - are you just being fashionable?
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  138. Art says:
    @denk

    The West has been practicing Christian philosophy, and has thrived.
     
    Indeed,
    On the corpse of plundered countries.

    Uncle scam is entirely secular,
    it'll bomb its own mother if there's money to be made.
    Never mind fellow xtians.

    http://emperors-clothes.com/churchpics/list.htm

    The West has been practicing Christian philosophy, and has thrived.

    Indeed,
    On the corpse of plundered countries.

    Uncle scam is entirely secular,
    it’ll bomb its own mother if there’s money to be made.
    Never mind fellow xtians.

    Indeed – the current US deep state government has nothing to do with Christianity.

    Think Peace — Art

    Read More
    • Replies: @denk

    The West has been practicing Christian philosophy, and has thrived.
     

    Indeed – the current US deep state government has nothing to do with Christianity.
     
    hhhhhh
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  139. Art says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Hmm’ – does that suggest a weak culture with weak individuals and incompetent leaders? (The Japanese coped.)

     

    The Japanese were not a conquered people of the Manchus at the time and far, far less aggression was directed at it compared to the Chinese.

    Hmm’ – does that suggest a weak culture with weak individuals and incompetent leaders? (The Japanese coped.)

    The Japanese were not a conquered people of the Manchus at the time and far, far less aggression was directed at it compared to the Chinese.

    Hmm — do those points sound like excuses that hide unpleasant thoughts?

    Think Peace — Art

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Just truth. A Japan that faced anything like the colonial force or the amount of aggression would have done much, much worse.

    I don't really have anything against Christianity myself.

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  140. Vidi says:
    @Art
    (China) Their serious starvation problems started 250 years ago–when we showed up.

    Hmm’ - does that suggest a weak culture with weak individuals and incompetent leaders? (The Japanese coped.)

    Seven wars the West is waging right now? While it has more homeless, hungry and imprisoned people than China?

    First I agree --- then I have a one-word answer – JEWS!

    One percent, at most, of China’s IP is of doubtful provenance.

    Sorry – but ALL of China’s IP is stolen – digital IP was created in the West. Every computer in China is a Western derivative.

    Think Peace --- Art

    One percent, at most, of China’s IP is of doubtful provenance.

    Sorry – but ALL of China’s IP is stolen -

    All of China’s IP is stolen? That is a very serious allegation. Prove it.

    Of course, you could be one of those people who use their private definitions of common words. What is your definition of “IP”?

    digital IP was created in the West.

    That’s another argument. And digital IP is nowhere near all IP — not by commonly understood definitions of Intellectual Property.

    Every computer in China is a Western derivative.

    Are you butt-hurt by the fact that a non-Christian country is now leading in the highest of the high technologies?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art
    All of China’s IP is stolen? That is a very serious allegation. Prove it.

    Vidi,

    Traditionally the Chinese culture does not recognize IP (intellectual property).

    By our Western standards they are thieves. End of story.

    As to Chinese inventions --- good for them.

    As to America falling behind in the last 60 years – we will defeat the oligarch Jews that are responsible for our dark situation.

    Think Peace --- Art
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  141. @Art

    Hmm’ – does that suggest a weak culture with weak individuals and incompetent leaders? (The Japanese coped.)

    The Japanese were not a conquered people of the Manchus at the time and far, far less aggression was directed at it compared to the Chinese.
     
    Hmm --- do those points sound like excuses that hide unpleasant thoughts?

    Think Peace --- Art

    Just truth. A Japan that faced anything like the colonial force or the amount of aggression would have done much, much worse.

    I don’t really have anything against Christianity myself.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art
    Just truth. A Japan that faced anything like the colonial force or the amount of aggression would have done much, much worse.

    Daniel Chieh,

    OK - I give.

    Think Peace --- Art
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  142. Art says:
    @Vidi

    Isaac Newton (1642–1726/1727) — poor Francis, he died just before the greatest, most productive science to ever occur.

    Newton was a Christian – he went to Christian schools – his nation was Christian. Unlike China, his nation and culture valued discovery.
     
    Newton himself said that he "stood on the shoulders of giants" -- who were mostly non-Christian (the old Greeks, the Arabs, and the Chinese).

    What happened to China and what happened to the Christian West in the next 500 years?
     
    I don't know. It has only been 300 years since Newton. Only in the last 200 years have Westerners advanced past China, when the Middle Kingdom was in one of its periodic downturns. China now is back, is contributing heavily to science, and is nowhere near a Christian culture.

    By the way, what is your opinion of Francis Bacon's statement, that the Chinese inventions had greater impact on the world than any sect (like Christianity)?

    By the way, what is your opinion of Francis Bacon’s statement, that the Chinese inventions had greater impact on the world than any sect (like Christianity)?

    Vidi,

    Clearly Francis Bacon was proven wrong.

    The invention of electricity was a thousand times more important then anything the Chinese did.

    The invention of Western medicine was another thousand times more important.

    Even if these inventors were atheists – their knowledge lived and thrived in the Christian culture.

    Think Peace — Art

    p.s. Why do you hate your heritage – what is wrong with you – are you just being fashionable?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Vidi
    I replied to you in this post.
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  143. Art says:
    @Vidi


    One percent, at most, of China’s IP is of doubtful provenance.
     
    Sorry – but ALL of China’s IP is stolen -
     
    All of China's IP is stolen? That is a very serious allegation. Prove it.

    Of course, you could be one of those people who use their private definitions of common words. What is your definition of "IP"?

    digital IP was created in the West.
     
    That's another argument. And digital IP is nowhere near all IP -- not by commonly understood definitions of Intellectual Property.

    Every computer in China is a Western derivative.
     
    Are you butt-hurt by the fact that a non-Christian country is now leading in the highest of the high technologies?

    All of China’s IP is stolen? That is a very serious allegation. Prove it.

    Vidi,

    Traditionally the Chinese culture does not recognize IP (intellectual property).

    By our Western standards they are thieves. End of story.

    As to Chinese inventions — good for them.

    As to America falling behind in the last 60 years – we will defeat the oligarch Jews that are responsible for our dark situation.

    Think Peace — Art

    Read More
    • Replies: @Vidi


    All of China’s IP is stolen? That is a very serious allegation. Prove it.
     
    Traditionally the Chinese culture does not recognize IP (intellectual property).

    By our Western standards they are thieves. End of story.
     

    As I suspected,


    Of course, you could be one of those people who use their private definitions of common words.
     

     
    Yes, you redefined "thieves". By your definition, a Chinese corporation is a thief in spite of having paid for any IP it uses.

    China pays a lot for IP. According to one of Godfree's postings, «Nicholas Lardy of the Peterson Institute of International Economics points out, “China’s payments of licensing fees and royalties for the use of foreign technology have soared in recent years, reaching almost $30 billion last year”».

    According to you, China still stole the IP in spite of having paid $30 billion for it.

    If stealthily misdefining a word is your idea of proper Christian conduct, I want none of it.

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  144. Art says:
    @Daniel Chieh
    Just truth. A Japan that faced anything like the colonial force or the amount of aggression would have done much, much worse.

    I don't really have anything against Christianity myself.

    Just truth. A Japan that faced anything like the colonial force or the amount of aggression would have done much, much worse.

    Daniel Chieh,

    OK – I give.

    Think Peace — Art

    Read More
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  145. Vidi says:

    The invention of electricity was a thousand times more important then anything the Chinese did.

    Not according to Time-Life Magazine, which in 1997 named the printing press as the most important invention of the last millenium.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20100310192514/http://www.mainz.de/gutenberg/g2000.htm

    (The article is in German; I’m going by an automatic translation.)

    Of course, they credited Johannes Gutenberg as the inventor; they didn’t know, or with typical Western doublethink “forgot”, that China printed books some hundreds of years before the birth of Gutenberg

    A poll on the A & E Network also ranked Gutenberg as the most important person of the millenium:

    http://www.wmich.edu/mus-gened/mus170/biography100

    Michael Faraday, who made crucial discoveries in electricity and magnetism, was only 61st.

    The printing press is but one of China’s four great inventions. All of them came long before any Christian preachers were inflicted on the Chinese.

    Clearly Francis Bacon was proven wrong.

    Clearly Bacon, one of the first scientists ever, was more right than you are.

    Read More
    • Agree: Vidi
    • Replies: @Vidi
    Heh, just trying out the newly-working Agree/Disagree button. I may as well agree with myself.
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  146. Vidi says:
    @Art
    All of China’s IP is stolen? That is a very serious allegation. Prove it.

    Vidi,

    Traditionally the Chinese culture does not recognize IP (intellectual property).

    By our Western standards they are thieves. End of story.

    As to Chinese inventions --- good for them.

    As to America falling behind in the last 60 years – we will defeat the oligarch Jews that are responsible for our dark situation.

    Think Peace --- Art

    All of China’s IP is stolen? That is a very serious allegation. Prove it.

    Traditionally the Chinese culture does not recognize IP (intellectual property).

    By our Western standards they are thieves. End of story.

    As I suspected,

    Of course, you could be one of those people who use their private definitions of common words.

    Yes, you redefined “thieves”. By your definition, a Chinese corporation is a thief in spite of having paid for any IP it uses.

    China pays a lot for IP. According to one of Godfree’s postings, «Nicholas Lardy of the Peterson Institute of International Economics points out, “China’s payments of licensing fees and royalties for the use of foreign technology have soared in recent years, reaching almost $30 billion last year”».

    According to you, China still stole the IP in spite of having paid $30 billion for it.

    If stealthily misdefining a word is your idea of proper Christian conduct, I want none of it.

    Read More
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  147. Vidi says:
    @Vidi

    The invention of electricity was a thousand times more important then anything the Chinese did.
     
    Not according to Time-Life Magazine, which in 1997 named the printing press as the most important invention of the last millenium.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20100310192514/http://www.mainz.de/gutenberg/g2000.htm

    (The article is in German; I'm going by an automatic translation.)

    Of course, they credited Johannes Gutenberg as the inventor; they didn't know, or with typical Western doublethink "forgot", that China printed books some hundreds of years before the birth of Gutenberg

    A poll on the A & E Network also ranked Gutenberg as the most important person of the millenium:

    http://www.wmich.edu/mus-gened/mus170/biography100

    Michael Faraday, who made crucial discoveries in electricity and magnetism, was only 61st.

    The printing press is but one of China's four great inventions. All of them came long before any Christian preachers were inflicted on the Chinese.

    Clearly Francis Bacon was proven wrong.
     
    Clearly Bacon, one of the first scientists ever, was more right than you are.

    Heh, just trying out the newly-working Agree/Disagree button. I may as well agree with myself.

    Read More
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  148. Bucky says:
    @Art
    The West over self-criticises, especially the Anglosphere.

    Oh dear – oh my’ - who dares to criticize what the Jew Rothschilds own fare and square.

    It is all an anti-Jew anti-Semite plot – oh’ the suffering!

    Think Peace --- Do No Harm --- Art

    If the Jews had been in China, China would have conquered the Americas and China would rule the world.

    All of the sins that you heap onto Jews were also actions which enabled European dominance. Without money-lending, Europeans are stuck with Catholicism in feudal conditions. They would basically be Tibetans.

    Read More
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  149. Vidi says:
    @Art
    By the way, what is your opinion of Francis Bacon’s statement, that the Chinese inventions had greater impact on the world than any sect (like Christianity)?

    Vidi,

    Clearly Francis Bacon was proven wrong.

    The invention of electricity was a thousand times more important then anything the Chinese did.

    The invention of Western medicine was another thousand times more important.

    Even if these inventors were atheists – their knowledge lived and thrived in the Christian culture.

    Think Peace --- Art

    p.s. Why do you hate your heritage - what is wrong with you - are you just being fashionable?

    I replied to you in this post.

    Read More
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  150. denk says:
    @denk
    pussies stand up to the CCP

    Real man stand up to the MIC.

    hhhhhhh

    http://sainthoward.blogspot.com/2014/12/putting-saints-in-jail.html

    Just in case…..

    Ai Weiwei is a patsy.

    Jim Jones is the pussy …
    always so bold to stand up to CCP,
    [no consequence] ;-)

    Leave it to real man to stand up to the MIC.

    hhhhhh

    Read More
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  151. denk says:
    @Art

    The West has been practicing Christian philosophy, and has thrived.

    Indeed,
    On the corpse of plundered countries.

    Uncle scam is entirely secular,
    it’ll bomb its own mother if there’s money to be made.
    Never mind fellow xtians.
     
    Indeed - the current US deep state government has nothing to do with Christianity.

    Think Peace --- Art

    The West has been practicing Christian philosophy, and has thrived.

    Indeed – the current US deep state government has nothing to do with Christianity.

    hhhhhh

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art

    The West has been practicing Christian philosophy, and has thrived.

    Indeed – the current US deep state government has nothing to do with Christianity.

    hhhhhh
     
    Of course, the simple, correct, and honest answer is that the current US Deep State is controlled and run for the benefit of Jews - NOT Christians.

    Just look at Trump and C0ngress! Israel has 1000% support from them all (AIPAC coercion).

    Think Peace --- Do No Harm --- Art

    p.s. Cultures and governments are not the same thing. Cultures transcend governments.
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  152. denk says:
    @James Solbakken
    God-Free here has stated previously that Mao did more good for people than anyone else in history. That would be true in the sense that Mao personally sent more people immediately to heaven than anyone else in history.

    I think we're being trolled. Nobody thinks China is anything else besides a miserable totalitarian excrement hole, and it will be such until the CCP is overthrown and all its leaders are sent to hell where they belong.

    Mao personally sent more people immediately to heaven than anyone else in history.

    liar

    I think we’re being trolled.
    [sic ]
    Nobody thinks China is anything else besides a miserable totalitarian excrement hole, and it will be such until the CCP is overthrown and all its leaders are sent to hell where they belong.

    You just run away from the asylum ?

    Read More
    • Replies: @James Solbakken
    Communists are the scummiest scum bags who ever existed. Communists are degenerate perverts who belong in a place infinitely worse than hell for a time infinitely longer than an infinite number of infinite eternities.

    Communists give other murderers and thieves and liars and evil doers a bad name.

    Jesus Christ called communists "Nicolaitans," and said He hated your deeds and doctrines. You can be certain that eventually He will come and destroy you forever, at the time appointed by His Father.

    It's not too late to repent, though, probably.
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  153. Erebus says:
    @Godfree Roberts
    Yes, Japan's conviction rate is determined by cultural factors, but they have nothing to do with saving face. Both systems begin with crime prevention at home, early indoctrination into the culture of respect 'for I have yet to see a man who is respectful of his older brother, father and uncles who causes rouble' as Confucius observed.

    The entire community is involved in preventing people from slipping into crime and relatives, workmates and classmates will address miscreants early and often.

    But if he persists, and actually chooses crime, then the community (including his family) will turn him over to the police and testify against him. He's an outcast.

    Very few people make it to that level of depravity and the police only intervene when everything else has failed.

    At that point, the culturally smart thing to do is make a full confession and throw yourself on the mercy of the court.

    Nor is this a cold-hearted abandonment of criminals. Both systems work hard to reform them while they're in prison, which is why China has the lowest recidivism rate on earth.

    P.S., My anecdote about hunger and homelessness in SF was designed to jolt people into reality: nobody has seen a beggar in a Chinese city since 2016 and that's what the stats say, too. Everyone who's been there has encountered dozens of beggars in SF, LA and NYC, and that's what the stats say, too.

    … nobody has seen a beggar in a Chinese city since 2016 and that’s what the stats say, too.

    Well, my experience of big Chinese cities says there’s still a few, though much (as in an order of magnitude) less than previously. Not that I was paying attention at the time, but your citing of 2016 coincides with experience… they disappeared a couple of years ago.

    My thinking was that China’s hyper-adoption of cashless payment systems meant a sudden dearth of cash on the street. In any case, the common wisdom was that most beggary was a business enterprise. There was no shortage of work available.

    Or did some governmental move in 2016 put them out of business?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
    Yes, beggary seemed to thrive and was quite lucrative in some locations. It's a form of enterprise, I guess!.

    I suspect that the government did what it always does in such circumstances: put out a call for Trial Spots, asking townships to try whatever they wished and offering financial and statistical support.

    That's the signal for hundreds of ambitious young local government Social Services managers to race and find creative, win-win (preferably net profitable) solutions. The prize is promotion to the Provincial level.

    Xi, incidentally, won three such promotions during his climb and drew at least two national headlines. He was a very, very good manager, partly because his father had schooled him on listening to ordinary people.
    , @Tyrion 2
    A beggar once approached me on the Shanghai tube. The half full carriage of only Chinese people ushered/chased him away from me. I suspect that begging in China may not be particularly lucrative.
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  154. @jim jones
    China has never had a Democratic Government or any citizen rights. People live at the mercy of the ruling bureaucrats:

    https://reason.com/blog/2018/08/07/china-government-ai-weiwei-studio-demoli

    China is a thriving democracy that applies popular voting to policies, not personalities. Read Selling Democracy to China, and weep: https://www.unz.com/article/selling-democracy-to-china/.

    And, as you saw when you read my article, China’s people enjoy much better human rights than we do.

    Read More
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  155. @RedRobbo
    This is pure Newspeak.
    China is a brutal state capitalist dictatorship. Capitalist hallmarks, such as class society, commodity production, profit motive, exploitation of wage labour, markets, etc., exist there as they do worldwide. Further evidence is supplied by a recent article titled 'Always Stay Professional'. Inside China's Booming Butler Schools, Nothing But the Best Will Do' (Time, 1 November, 2017). Here we learn that some of China's 1,590,000 millionaires wish to live the life of Riley Downtown Abbey style! 'Students pay 50,000 rmb ($7,500) for a six-week course on food presentation, how to iron shirts the proper way, and maintaining serene decorum at all times.... Students learn how to choose fine wine but also good Chinese liquor, teach tai chi, perform a tea ceremony and caddy on the golf course. For many, it’s another world.' Indeed. '...15-hour days and endless drilling. How to clean a toilet, iron a tablecloth, use tape-measures and plastic blocks to get table placings perfectly aligned. It’s a regimen of burns, blisters and bottomless cups of coffee'. The Ju/’hoansi people work only 15 hours a week.

    Why not back up your allegations with evidence?

    Otherwise, you might be mistaken for a racist, or an imperialist, even a racist imperialist.

    95% of Chinese trust their government and the stats support them: it delivers what it promises, doesn’t lie to them and protects their human rights better than ours.

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    • Replies: @RedRobbo
    Her's some further evidence:

    In his Report of an Investigation into the Peasant Movement in Hunan (1927), Mao admitted that the coming revolution would not be socialist: ‘To overthrow these feudal forces is the real objective of the revolution’.

    He is reported to have told a US diplomat in 1945: ‘China needs to build up light industries to supply her own market and raise the living standards of her own people. Eventually she can supply these goods to other countries in the Far East. To help pay for this foreign trade and investment, she has raw materials and agricultural products. America is not only the most suitable country to assist this economic development of China: she is also the only country fully able to participate. ‘

    In 1949, Mao was careful to point out that the new society would not be Socialist. His inaugural speech said:
    To counter imperialist oppression and raise her backward economy to a higher level, China must utilize all the factors of urban and rural capitalism that are beneficial and not harmful to the national economy and people’s livelihood . . . Our present policy is to regulate capitalism, not to destroy it.

    Thatcher: 'there is only one economic system in the world, and that is capitalism. The difference lies in whether the capital is in the hands of the State or whether the greater part of it is in the hands of people outside of State control,' ( House of Commons speech, 24 November, 1976).

    Joshua Kurlantzick provides a modern day assessment: 'the most serious threat from state capitalism is that the two big state capitalist authoritarian powers, China and Russia, will use their state companies as weapons in conflicts with other countries, as vehicles to control certain types of natural resources, as vehicles for obtaining and stealing sensitive technology from other nations, or as tools for undermining environmental and labor norms in countries where their state companies invest' (State Capitalism: How the Return of Statism is Transforming the World, OUP USA, June 2016)

    Review: Chinese Workers Strike against Runaway Factories:
    http://bit.ly/2LypjZY

    State capitalist China has over 100 billionaires who together have wealth equal to twice Ireland's GDP and, according to a Peking University report from 2016, its income disparity is getting worse with the top 1 percent owning a third of the country's wealth and the bottom 25 percent of the population just 1 percent.
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  156. @Erebus

    ... nobody has seen a beggar in a Chinese city since 2016 and that’s what the stats say, too.
     
    Well, my experience of big Chinese cities says there's still a few, though much (as in an order of magnitude) less than previously. Not that I was paying attention at the time, but your citing of 2016 coincides with experience... they disappeared a couple of years ago.

    My thinking was that China's hyper-adoption of cashless payment systems meant a sudden dearth of cash on the street. In any case, the common wisdom was that most beggary was a business enterprise. There was no shortage of work available.

    Or did some governmental move in 2016 put them out of business?

    Yes, beggary seemed to thrive and was quite lucrative in some locations. It’s a form of enterprise, I guess!.

    I suspect that the government did what it always does in such circumstances: put out a call for Trial Spots, asking townships to try whatever they wished and offering financial and statistical support.

    That’s the signal for hundreds of ambitious young local government Social Services managers to race and find creative, win-win (preferably net profitable) solutions. The prize is promotion to the Provincial level.

    Xi, incidentally, won three such promotions during his climb and drew at least two national headlines. He was a very, very good manager, partly because his father had schooled him on listening to ordinary people.

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  157. D says:
    @Bill P
    Bullshit. Most long term expats prefer life in China and probably prefer China to the USA. That's why they're long term.

    I've known quite a few. I couldn't stomach the place nearly as well as they could. I couldn't defend it like they do. Chinese should cultivate them, because they are way more Sinophilic than your average American ever could be.

    And yet Chinese trash them as losers, which to me says, yeah maybe they are, because for all their love for China they still get trashed and put up with it.

    And another thing... Why is it so much easier for them to get laid in China despite them being such "losers?" What does that say about China? Nothing good, I know that.

    It's not entirely true anyway. Beautiful Chinese women are hard to get in China, and ordinary white girls are not so hard in the US or Europe.

    The thing is that a lot of these expat "losers" prefer the Chinese aesthetic. Although I differ from them in this regard, I can understand it. There's something beguiling and sublime about the Chinese ideal. Sometimes when I'm alone I like to listen to Chinese traditional music and have a few drinks. It's a nice feeling, and it makes the world a better place.

    But at the same time if my homeland were in danger of being Sinicized I'd be horrified and I'd fight it. Your loser expats, on the other hand, would not. They already live it and that's what they prefer. And still you demean them and call them losers. This just gives me all the more reason to resist Sinicization. I'm not going to let my kids be subjugated by people who look down on and hate them.

    You are mistaken if you think the expats love China. If there is anything they prefer about life in China, it’s the rock star celebrity treatment they get from the idiot locals who think being white automatically means better.

    And yes, most of the long-term expats are indeed losers back home. They don’t really have a marketable skill so they go to China (or some other country in Asia) and make a living by basically being white. By rights they should be nothing more than dishwashers or fruit pickers, just like a non-skilled immigrant would be in America, but since they’re white they get to do something reasonably respectable like teaching English. That said, the reputation of these LBHs in Asia has become so bad in Asia that “English teacher” is now something of a disparaging label in Asia by association. These days, no self-respecting expat in Asia wants to be known as an English teacher.

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    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    I never taught in China but having visited there I can only assume that the incredibly easy sex with pretty and surprisingly elite girls would be very corrupting.

    I was always confused as to why the local men didn't resent this more. Men usually do in these circumstances. I suppose it might be because the very good looking/successful ones are having an incredibly fun time and the others just sort of assume you are in the same group as those? Or perhaps it is just a function of the Buddhist physical/spiritual world separation, so sex is sport? Or maybe the language gap shrouds my horrific chat?

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  158. D says:
    @Bill P
    Bullshit. Most long term expats prefer life in China and probably prefer China to the USA. That's why they're long term.

    I've known quite a few. I couldn't stomach the place nearly as well as they could. I couldn't defend it like they do. Chinese should cultivate them, because they are way more Sinophilic than your average American ever could be.

    And yet Chinese trash them as losers, which to me says, yeah maybe they are, because for all their love for China they still get trashed and put up with it.

    And another thing... Why is it so much easier for them to get laid in China despite them being such "losers?" What does that say about China? Nothing good, I know that.

    It's not entirely true anyway. Beautiful Chinese women are hard to get in China, and ordinary white girls are not so hard in the US or Europe.

    The thing is that a lot of these expat "losers" prefer the Chinese aesthetic. Although I differ from them in this regard, I can understand it. There's something beguiling and sublime about the Chinese ideal. Sometimes when I'm alone I like to listen to Chinese traditional music and have a few drinks. It's a nice feeling, and it makes the world a better place.

    But at the same time if my homeland were in danger of being Sinicized I'd be horrified and I'd fight it. Your loser expats, on the other hand, would not. They already live it and that's what they prefer. And still you demean them and call them losers. This just gives me all the more reason to resist Sinicization. I'm not going to let my kids be subjugated by people who look down on and hate them.

    And what’s the deal with this “resist Sinicization” business? I didn’t know America was in danger of becoming a Chinese nation. But if you think being subjugated by a people who look down on and hate you is bad, maybe you have some understanding of what it’s like for non-white people to live in a world dominated by whites.

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    • Replies: @Bill P
    Obviously it's easy for the nonwhites, because they clearly like moving to white countries, neighborhoods, school districts, etc.

    I don't see much evidence of the reverse happening except in tiny numbers (there are more Chinese in my hometown of Seattle than there are white Americans in all of China). And despite the tiny numbers of whites in China, a very vocal contingent of Chinese still throws fits about it.

    So no, I don't think I learned what it's like to be a nonwhite in white society during my stay in China, because it's obviously far more comfortable than being white over there. This is why I'm certain that most long-term expats must really like and appreciate China. You'd have to to put up with it for that long, or else you'd have to be getting paid a whole lot of money for living there.

    As for the Sinicization issue, I live near Vancouver BC now, and it has definitely Sinicized. So have parts of California. It is not a welcome development to most Anglos when they find their children priced out of their cities and shoved out of the universities they built.
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  159. Jaylon says:
    @Vidi

    God-Free here has stated previously that Mao did more good for people than anyone else in history. That would be true in the sense that Mao personally sent more people immediately to heaven than anyone else in history.
     
    Did you actually read Godfree's article? China's population actually increased during the Great Leap Forward.

    Either he did not read it, or he is fact- resistant. It is obvious that there are many fact resistant commentors here, including those who like to invent their own facts like ” i have lived a decade in China…” types.

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  160. Erebus says:
    @Godfree Roberts
    Let's discuss your points one at a time:

    1. For the last 1,000 years the Chinese have been practicing Confusion philosophy, and have starved. That's why there are 1.4 billion of them, presumably, still practicing Confucian philosophy, of course. Their serious starvation problems started 250 years ago–when we showed up.

    2. The West has been practicing Christian philosophy, and has thrived. Seven, is it? Seven wars the West is waging right now? While it has more homeless, hungry and imprisoned people than China?

    3. Today the Chinese have stolen what the West created, and they are doing very well. One percent, at most, of China's IP is of doubtful provenance. The rest is indigenous or licensed. Check the TRIPS court records. Nicholas Lardy of the Peterson Institute of International Economics points out, “China’s payments of licensing fees and royalties for the use of foreign technology have soared in recent years, reaching almost $30 billion last year, nearly a four-fold increase over the last decade.” In fact, Lardy continues, “China probably ranks second globally in the magnitude of licensing fees paid for technology used within national borders.” https://piie.com/newsroom/short-videos/how-much-china-paying-foreign-technology

    One percent, at most, of China’s IP is of doubtful provenance. The rest is indigenous or licensed.

    I doubt this.
    One wonders how much of this is effectively profit repatriation by large foreign m such as Siemens, Mercedes, Toyota, Samsung etc being disguised as technology and brand licencing payments for tax reasons. IOWs, the inverse of what the PIIE article is saying about Ireland and Netherlands.

    I’d venture that the vast bulk of that $30B is just for the big boys. Experience says they have zero respect for each others’ IP, and even less for foreigners’. 30 minutes on TaoBao or in LuoHu market at the Hong Kong border will tell you that copying is endemic amongst China’s numberless small manufacturers.

    This is particularly true in Industrial Design and Design Engineering, where the Chinese are sorely weak for a variety of cultural reasons.

    Having said that, it’s important to note that patents are valid only in the countries that they’re registered in, and have a legal impact on Chinese (or any) copies only in the event that a violating product is exported to a country where the patent has been registered. That is, it’s theft in the legal sense only in those countries where the patent is registered (or is effectively recognized as such) by treaty. Everywhere else, the innovation is fair game.

    Interestingly, during the cold war the USSR registered quite a few American patents, particularly in the military field precisely to prevent the Americans from stealing/copying the innovation for themselves through espionage or defections. Perhaps even more interestingly, in the main their patents were respected.

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    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
    Mebbe, but the WTO TRIPS certainly shows entire amount as IP licensing and that fits. Contrary to popular opinion, China has always paid through the nose. $11.4 billion for HSR alone. Billions to Russia every year, ARM licenses and the like, aerospace...

    They even have an annual equity conference with the Russians, whose defense firms don't get all of the Chinese money because the government takes some and who feel cheated and unloved.

    After the last such such conference I heard about, in 2011, China wrote a check for $4.1 billion, which must have soothed some hurt feelings.
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  161. @James N. Kennett
    The most remarkable aspect of the figure is the sudden drop in hungry Chinese people between 2009 and 2010. It is true that Chinese GDP had high growth in that year, but this was also true for most other years. Is there any particular reason for the sudden change?

    The drop is significant because it accounts for most of the difference between the USA and China since 2009.

    I asked a retired Chinese banker who’s interested in poverty reduction, since he originally came from a poor village. He says the chart probably represents a combination of changed methodologies, catchup after years of neglect, rural food subsidies and urbanization.

    He explained that the rather stubborn residue, after 2009, is made up of Category Three poor people –capable of work but external conditions or resources like jobs are poor and for whom relocation or employment skills training may be effective–and Category Four, people who are permanently incapacitated like the severely disabled who should be supported by the social protection system.

    Right now, everyone in those categories has been identified and helped by an official (whose personal cel number they have) responsible for getting them across the line by 2021.

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    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    While I don't believe your baseless and seemingly propagandistic anecdotes and assertions, I do think that you'd be more credible if you pointed out the biggest barrier to America improving its minimum living standards: "bring me your poor, huddled, tired, useless, lazy, whatever etc. etc."
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  162. @Erebus

    One percent, at most, of China’s IP is of doubtful provenance. The rest is indigenous or licensed.
     
    I doubt this.
    One wonders how much of this is effectively profit repatriation by large foreign m such as Siemens, Mercedes, Toyota, Samsung etc being disguised as technology and brand licencing payments for tax reasons. IOWs, the inverse of what the PIIE article is saying about Ireland and Netherlands.

    I'd venture that the vast bulk of that $30B is just for the big boys. Experience says they have zero respect for each others' IP, and even less for foreigners'. 30 minutes on TaoBao or in LuoHu market at the Hong Kong border will tell you that copying is endemic amongst China's numberless small manufacturers.

    This is particularly true in Industrial Design and Design Engineering, where the Chinese are sorely weak for a variety of cultural reasons.

    Having said that, it's important to note that patents are valid only in the countries that they're registered in, and have a legal impact on Chinese (or any) copies only in the event that a violating product is exported to a country where the patent has been registered. That is, it's theft in the legal sense only in those countries where the patent is registered (or is effectively recognized as such) by treaty. Everywhere else, the innovation is fair game.

    Interestingly, during the cold war the USSR registered quite a few American patents, particularly in the military field precisely to prevent the Americans from stealing/copying the innovation for themselves through espionage or defections. Perhaps even more interestingly, in the main their patents were respected.

    Mebbe, but the WTO TRIPS certainly shows entire amount as IP licensing and that fits. Contrary to popular opinion, China has always paid through the nose. $11.4 billion for HSR alone. Billions to Russia every year, ARM licenses and the like, aerospace…

    They even have an annual equity conference with the Russians, whose defense firms don’t get all of the Chinese money because the government takes some and who feel cheated and unloved.

    After the last such such conference I heard about, in 2011, China wrote a check for $4.1 billion, which must have soothed some hurt feelings.

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  163. Erebus says:

    Mebbe, but the WTO TRIPS certainly shows entire amount as IP licensing and that fits.

    Fits what?

    Billions to Russia every year, ARM licenses and the like, aerospace…

    That the Russians are in a position to force payment should surprise no-one. They’d be defenceless without Russia, so they’re in a seller’s market.

    … China has always paid through the nose.

    Now you’re being disingenuous. They pay for a fraction of what they use, and they pay a fraction of market value when they actually buy/license IP (as opposed to profit repat).

    I’ve been in negotiations, and anecdotally know of more, where the IP owner was basically told: “License us the technology for $X, or lose it and/or the right to do business in the Chinese market.” Some, like Siemens chose to lose it, and walked away from China’s Hi-Speed Rail network. Most others agree, figuring that something is better than nothing. That’s been the reality up to recently, but I agree that it is changing with Xi’s MIC2025 plan. The Chinese PTB realize it has to, or they’ll have to change the program to MIC2125.

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    • Replies: @Vidi


    … China has always paid through the nose.
     
    Now you’re being disingenuous. They pay for a fraction of what they use, and they pay a fraction of market value when they actually buy/license IP (as opposed to profit repat).
     
    No, you are being disigenuous, Erebus. Why should China pay for every U.S. patent it uses when the U.S. literally tries to patent everything, right down to the peanut butter and jelly sandwich?

    (Yes, U.S. patent 6004596 was awarded to Smuckers for the crustless PB&J, which shows how corrupt the U.S. patent office really is. I don't think this joke of a patent has been overturned even now.)

    Then there's the famous litigation between Apple and Samsung, where Apple actually won a $1 billion judgement, partially for phones with rounded corners. This was absolutely ridiculous, so Samsung of course appealed the ruling. I think the latest judgement still demands $500 million from the South Korean company. Yes, rounding the corners of your phone is considered such a brilliant innovation in the U.S. that it's worth half a billion dollars.

    With such an insane IP policy in the US, why should China care? (When it isn't dying of laughter.)
    , @Godfree Roberts
    There's no mystery to this. The records are readily available online.

    For context, 96% of the respondents to the 2018 AmCham China survey responded that China’s IPR enforcement has improved in recent years.https://www.amchamchina.org/policy-advocacy/business-climate-survey/

    Nicholas Lardy of the Peterson Institute of International Economics points out, “China’s payments of licensing fees and royalties for the use of foreign technology have soared in recent years, reaching almost $30 billion last year, nearly a four-fold increase over the last decade.” In fact, Lardy continues, “China probably ranks second globally in the magnitude of licensing fees paid for technology used within national borders.” https://piie.com/newsroom/short-videos/how-much-china-paying-foreign-technology

    No one puts a gun to Boeing’s head when it decides to accept a technology transfer arrangement from China. It makes the deal because it expects to make a profit even with the required technology transfer.

    To take an analogous situation: the Supreme Court recently ruled that employers can require workers to accept arbitration–give up their right to sue–as a precondition of employment. The court said that workers freely choose an employment package and if they don’t want to sign away their right to sue, they can work for a different company. So here we have the US government saying that Boeing and other multinationals need protection from big bad China, because otherwise they will sign contracts that are bad for them, but an individual worker, taking a job from one of these companies, doesn’t need protection.

    The class issues are more extreme with patents and copyrights. These government-granted monopolies are forms of protectionism: 'protectionism,' as in 'the opposite of free trade'. Unlike tariffs or quotas, these monopolies don’t raise the price of items by just 10 percent or 25 percent; they raise the price of protected items by several thousand or even tens of thousands of percent. Drugs would be dirt cheap without these protections and software would be free.

    China is a minor infringer of IP compared, say, to South Korea. Bill Gertz’s book, “Betrayal: How the Clinton Administration Undermined American Security tells how the Administration transferred cutting edge nuclear, military and other technology from classified status to Commerce and then openly sold the technology to China. GE transferred its aerospace and its imaging IP to China in exchange for market access, and GE is just the tip of the iceberg. All were short-term decisions now coming back to haunt us.

    To check the record, start at the US premier venue for IP cases, the Federal Court’s Northern District of California, where most complainants will file suits against Chinese entities. A database of Intellectual Property Cases can be found here: dockets.justia.com/browse/circuit-9/state-california/court-candce/noscat-10.

    For the WTO’s international forum for Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights, TRIPS, start here: http://www.wto.org/english/docs_e/legal_e/27-trips_04d_e.htm

    For Chinese IP court filings and decisions is here: chinaipr.com/category/beijing-ip-court/.
    , @Godfree Roberts
    There are legal fora in the US, at the WTO TRIPS court and in Shanghai and Beijing (where Apple is currently suing Qualcomm). I've put some links to them below. As you will see, there are no serious IP cases against China and have never been. Verdicts on the cases that have been brought against Chinese firms (none against the government) suggest small-time privateers, judging by the awards given.



    Federal Court’s Northern District of California, where most complainants will file suits against Chinese entities. A database of Intellectual Property Cases can be found here: dockets.justia.com/browse/circuit-9/state-california/court-candce/noscat-10.

    WTO’s international forum for Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights, TRIPS, start here: http://www.wto.org/english/docs_e/legal_e/27-trips_04d_e.htm

    Chinese IP court filings and decisions: chinaipr.com/category/beijing-ip-court/. It's a fast-moving scene but most sites have free subscriptions that will keep you up to date.

    Your anecdotes are interesting but, unlike the judgements, not verifiable and, by now, irrelevant. Last year the Japan Science and Technology Agency found that China now ranks as the most influential country in four of eight core scientific fields, tying with the U.S. The agency took the top 10% of the most referenced studies in each field, and determined the number of authors who were affiliated with the U.S., the U.K., Germany, France, China or Japan. China ranked first in computer science, mathematics, materials science and engineering. The U.S., on the other hand, led the way in physics, environmental and earth sciences, basic life science and clinical medicine. China also leads in almost all significant technologies. That doesn't suggest copying to me.
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  164. Art says:
    @denk

    The West has been practicing Christian philosophy, and has thrived.
     

    Indeed – the current US deep state government has nothing to do with Christianity.
     
    hhhhhh

    The West has been practicing Christian philosophy, and has thrived.

    Indeed – the current US deep state government has nothing to do with Christianity.

    hhhhhh

    Of course, the simple, correct, and honest answer is that the current US Deep State is controlled and run for the benefit of Jews – NOT Christians.

    Just look at Trump and C0ngress! Israel has 1000% support from them all (AIPAC coercion).

    Think Peace — Do No Harm — Art

    p.s. Cultures and governments are not the same thing. Cultures transcend governments.

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    • Replies: @denk
    Even with my atrocious grammar, I do remember my teacher telling us
    'has been' means from some time past up to the current.

    So you'r changing your tune now , that fukus had been practicing xtian philosophy until the current regime ?

    Either way its B.S.

    From day one,
    fukus has been invoking xtian mantra to rape and plunder the world and thrived on the corpse of destroy countries
    [fixed]

    China has been practicing Confucian philosophy and starved
     
    different philosophy,
    Some would gloat on their ill gotten fortune.
    The Chinese would rather starve momentarily than plunder.
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  165. China has made some amazing technological advances and increased their wealth a hundredfold in the past 40 years but at the expense of enormous environmental and social damage. If you told the Chinese that they all could move to the west tomorrow, I’m sure more than 50 percent would. What good is having gleaming cities and driving around in fancy cars when you have farmland that’s contaminated with lead and cadmium and lakes and rivers that are devoid of fish. The system is so corrupt that people can’t even trust if the food they buy in the supermarket isn’t poisoned with chemicals or fakes passed off as real. The corruption extends to the lack of protection for intellectual property. A society that can’t guarantee patent protection to innovators and inventors is holding itself back as these people will avoid your country altogether. Japan got rich by being honest and respecting patent and intellectual rights.

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    • Replies: @DB Cooper
    There was a spate of food and medicine scandals in Japan in the 1960s until the government cleaned up the act. And recent years there is also spate of industrial scandals in Japan involving falsifying data in the steel industries, using subpar chemicals in airbags and also cook the books in some electronic giants that I don't remember.
    , @anonymous
    IP isn't much of a thing in Japan either, thus the entire fracas with Harmony Gold. The entire "ideas are licensed" is really an anglo-saxon thing. Even in Eastern Europe, getting that worked up about who has the "original idea" is seen as a kind of autism.
    , @Godfree Roberts
    The 'China' you describe exists in our media only. In real China, 95% of people trust their government and support its policies. Corruption, compared to the US, is negligible, and equitability is remarkable.

    By June 1, 2021, every Chinese will have a home, a job, plenty of food, education, safe streets, health and old age care. 

    On that day there will be more poor, hungry and imprisoned people in America than in China.Not relatively, not per capita. In absolute numbers. In the richest country on earth.
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  166. DB Cooper says:
    @Bill Chicory
    China has made some amazing technological advances and increased their wealth a hundredfold in the past 40 years but at the expense of enormous environmental and social damage. If you told the Chinese that they all could move to the west tomorrow, I'm sure more than 50 percent would. What good is having gleaming cities and driving around in fancy cars when you have farmland that's contaminated with lead and cadmium and lakes and rivers that are devoid of fish. The system is so corrupt that people can't even trust if the food they buy in the supermarket isn't poisoned with chemicals or fakes passed off as real. The corruption extends to the lack of protection for intellectual property. A society that can't guarantee patent protection to innovators and inventors is holding itself back as these people will avoid your country altogether. Japan got rich by being honest and respecting patent and intellectual rights.

    There was a spate of food and medicine scandals in Japan in the 1960s until the government cleaned up the act. And recent years there is also spate of industrial scandals in Japan involving falsifying data in the steel industries, using subpar chemicals in airbags and also cook the books in some electronic giants that I don’t remember.

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  167. Bill P says:
    @D
    And what's the deal with this "resist Sinicization" business? I didn't know America was in danger of becoming a Chinese nation. But if you think being subjugated by a people who look down on and hate you is bad, maybe you have some understanding of what it's like for non-white people to live in a world dominated by whites.

    Obviously it’s easy for the nonwhites, because they clearly like moving to white countries, neighborhoods, school districts, etc.

    I don’t see much evidence of the reverse happening except in tiny numbers (there are more Chinese in my hometown of Seattle than there are white Americans in all of China). And despite the tiny numbers of whites in China, a very vocal contingent of Chinese still throws fits about it.

    So no, I don’t think I learned what it’s like to be a nonwhite in white society during my stay in China, because it’s obviously far more comfortable than being white over there. This is why I’m certain that most long-term expats must really like and appreciate China. You’d have to to put up with it for that long, or else you’d have to be getting paid a whole lot of money for living there.

    As for the Sinicization issue, I live near Vancouver BC now, and it has definitely Sinicized. So have parts of California. It is not a welcome development to most Anglos when they find their children priced out of their cities and shoved out of the universities they built.

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    • Agree: Tyrion 2
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  168. anonymous[207] • Disclaimer says:
    @Bill Chicory
    China has made some amazing technological advances and increased their wealth a hundredfold in the past 40 years but at the expense of enormous environmental and social damage. If you told the Chinese that they all could move to the west tomorrow, I'm sure more than 50 percent would. What good is having gleaming cities and driving around in fancy cars when you have farmland that's contaminated with lead and cadmium and lakes and rivers that are devoid of fish. The system is so corrupt that people can't even trust if the food they buy in the supermarket isn't poisoned with chemicals or fakes passed off as real. The corruption extends to the lack of protection for intellectual property. A society that can't guarantee patent protection to innovators and inventors is holding itself back as these people will avoid your country altogether. Japan got rich by being honest and respecting patent and intellectual rights.

    IP isn’t much of a thing in Japan either, thus the entire fracas with Harmony Gold. The entire “ideas are licensed” is really an anglo-saxon thing. Even in Eastern Europe, getting that worked up about who has the “original idea” is seen as a kind of autism.

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  169. Vidi says:
    @Erebus

    Mebbe, but the WTO TRIPS certainly shows entire amount as IP licensing and that fits.
     
    Fits what?

    Billions to Russia every year, ARM licenses and the like, aerospace…
     
    That the Russians are in a position to force payment should surprise no-one. They'd be defenceless without Russia, so they're in a seller's market.

    ... China has always paid through the nose.
     
    Now you're being disingenuous. They pay for a fraction of what they use, and they pay a fraction of market value when they actually buy/license IP (as opposed to profit repat).

    I've been in negotiations, and anecdotally know of more, where the IP owner was basically told: "License us the technology for $X, or lose it and/or the right to do business in the Chinese market." Some, like Siemens chose to lose it, and walked away from China's Hi-Speed Rail network. Most others agree, figuring that something is better than nothing. That's been the reality up to recently, but I agree that it is changing with Xi's MIC2025 plan. The Chinese PTB realize it has to, or they'll have to change the program to MIC2125.

    … China has always paid through the nose.

    Now you’re being disingenuous. They pay for a fraction of what they use, and they pay a fraction of market value when they actually buy/license IP (as opposed to profit repat).

    No, you are being disigenuous, Erebus. Why should China pay for every U.S. patent it uses when the U.S. literally tries to patent everything, right down to the peanut butter and jelly sandwich?

    (Yes, U.S. patent 6004596 was awarded to Smuckers for the crustless PB&J, which shows how corrupt the U.S. patent office really is. I don’t think this joke of a patent has been overturned even now.)

    Then there’s the famous litigation between Apple and Samsung, where Apple actually won a $1 billion judgement, partially for phones with rounded corners. This was absolutely ridiculous, so Samsung of course appealed the ruling. I think the latest judgement still demands $500 million from the South Korean company. Yes, rounding the corners of your phone is considered such a brilliant innovation in the U.S. that it’s worth half a billion dollars.

    With such an insane IP policy in the US, why should China care? (When it isn’t dying of laughter.)

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    • Agree: Godfree Roberts
    • Replies: @Erebus

    No, you are being disigenuous, Erebus. Why should China pay for every U.S. patent it uses when the U.S. literally tries to patent everything, right down to the peanut butter and jelly sandwich?
     
    Huh? Read my post at #160. That is emphatically not what we're talking about here. Read my post again, and perhaps you (and Godfree) will eventually understand the point of it.

    I agree that the USPTO has clearly abandoned the principle that real innovation, what used to be called "the teaching", must underlie the granting of a patent, and now issues patents on whatever notion hasn't been patented before, letting the courts sort out the prior art and innovation issues afterwards.
    The US has "weaponized" IP, and following the principle that "Quantity has a quality of its own", now grants patents willy-nilly. China, apparently deciding to fight fire with fire, grants patents at almost the same pace, and of the same quality as the US.

    In sum, your statement:

    With such an insane IP policy in the US, why should China care? (When it isn’t dying of laughter.)
     
    ... misses the point. That China has no legal obligation to uphold US, or any, patents that haven't been granted in China is a given, and holds for all countries.

    The world's complaints about China's IP practices can be summed as follows:
    A) China's requirement that foreign companies wishing to set up shop in China must sell/license their IP into the Chinese joint venture at a discount to market value despite risk of being propagated to 3rd parties.

    B) China is not doing enough to curb its vast army of small & medium shops that flood China and RoW with counterfeit products. Fake Rolexes, RayBans and Guccis are a very small part of the counterfeit business. The stories of fakes flooding the middle-lower end of the brand spectrum on eBay & Amazon materially harms those who spend time, money and effort inventing/developing products & brands.

    C) Chinese courts do not always recognize even a Chinese registered patent if it is foreign owned, or treat the violator with a leniency that doesn't come close to adequate compensating for the damage done. However, a couple of recent cases I'm aware of suggest that may be changing quickly.

    It's those 3 points where the world has a problem with China. Your, and Godfree's points are irrelevant to them.
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  170. FB says:
    @Godfree Roberts
    Let's discuss your points one at a time:

    1. For the last 1,000 years the Chinese have been practicing Confusion philosophy, and have starved. That's why there are 1.4 billion of them, presumably, still practicing Confucian philosophy, of course. Their serious starvation problems started 250 years ago–when we showed up.

    2. The West has been practicing Christian philosophy, and has thrived. Seven, is it? Seven wars the West is waging right now? While it has more homeless, hungry and imprisoned people than China?

    3. Today the Chinese have stolen what the West created, and they are doing very well. One percent, at most, of China's IP is of doubtful provenance. The rest is indigenous or licensed. Check the TRIPS court records. Nicholas Lardy of the Peterson Institute of International Economics points out, “China’s payments of licensing fees and royalties for the use of foreign technology have soared in recent years, reaching almost $30 billion last year, nearly a four-fold increase over the last decade.” In fact, Lardy continues, “China probably ranks second globally in the magnitude of licensing fees paid for technology used within national borders.” https://piie.com/newsroom/short-videos/how-much-china-paying-foreign-technology

    Mr. Roberts… that comment by ‘Fart’ …is lifted directly from Mein Kampf…

    ‘…Everything we admire on this earth today-science and art, technology and inventions-is only the creative product of a few peoples and originally perhaps of one race. On them depends the existence of this whole culture. If they perish, the beauty of this earth will sink into the grave with them…’

    ‘…If beginning today all further Aryan influence on Japan should stop, assuming that Europe and America should perish, Japan’s present rise in science and technology might continue for a short time; but even in a few years the well would dry up, the Japanese special character would gain, but the present culture would freeze and sink back into the slumber from which it was awakened seven decades ago by the wave of Aryan culture…’

    Just so you know where the tree monkey ‘Fart’ is coming from…

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  171. FB says:
    @Godfree Roberts
    These data are based on more than 36,000 interviews conducted as part of the Gallup-Healthways Well-Being Index with adults aged 18 to 50 from Jan. 1-June 27, 2013. Over this time period, 23% of all Americans aged 18 to 50 reported struggling to afford food. However, the large majority of all Americans do not report struggling to afford food.
    https://news.gallup.com/poll/163544/single-parent-households-struggle-buy-food.aspx

    Fifteen percent of U.S. adults reported in the first quarter of 2016 that there have been times in the past 12 months when they did not have enough money to buy food that they or their family needed. This is the lowest percentage of Americans experiencing food hardship in any quarter since Gallup and Healthways began tracking this measure in 2008.
    https://news.gallup.com/poll/191801/percentage-struggling-afford-food-new-low.aspx

    Of the 45 high-income countries in our 2017 sample, Japan has the lowest food insecurity at 1%, while Uruguay has the highest at 28%. Only 19 countries have levels of food insecurity lower than 10%, meaning that one in 10 children in these countries lack access to safe, sufficient and nutritious foods. The United Kingdom and United States are among the high-income countries that perform the poorest, with approximately one in five children living with a food insecure adult.


    Prevalence and Correlates of Food Insecurity among Children Across the Gobi. UNICEF. https://www.unicef-irc.org/publications/pdf/IWP_2017_09.pdf

    Mr. Roberts…just so you know ‘Tyrion 2′ is a high school punk living with his parents in the UK…who I feel very sorry for…[the parents, not the punk]

    I know this from reading his blog, which he no longer links to…and in which he describes a free trip he had to Israel for high-schoolers…and then proceeds to bad-mouth a Holocaust survivor who led a lecture at Yad Vashem…mocking this woman for relating her positive experiences with communism…

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  172. @Erebus

    Mebbe, but the WTO TRIPS certainly shows entire amount as IP licensing and that fits.
     
    Fits what?

    Billions to Russia every year, ARM licenses and the like, aerospace…
     
    That the Russians are in a position to force payment should surprise no-one. They'd be defenceless without Russia, so they're in a seller's market.

    ... China has always paid through the nose.
     
    Now you're being disingenuous. They pay for a fraction of what they use, and they pay a fraction of market value when they actually buy/license IP (as opposed to profit repat).

    I've been in negotiations, and anecdotally know of more, where the IP owner was basically told: "License us the technology for $X, or lose it and/or the right to do business in the Chinese market." Some, like Siemens chose to lose it, and walked away from China's Hi-Speed Rail network. Most others agree, figuring that something is better than nothing. That's been the reality up to recently, but I agree that it is changing with Xi's MIC2025 plan. The Chinese PTB realize it has to, or they'll have to change the program to MIC2125.

    There’s no mystery to this. The records are readily available online.

    For context, 96% of the respondents to the 2018 AmCham China survey responded that China’s IPR enforcement has improved in recent years.https://www.amchamchina.org/policy-advocacy/business-climate-survey/

    Nicholas Lardy of the Peterson Institute of International Economics points out, “China’s payments of licensing fees and royalties for the use of foreign technology have soared in recent years, reaching almost $30 billion last year, nearly a four-fold increase over the last decade.” In fact, Lardy continues, “China probably ranks second globally in the magnitude of licensing fees paid for technology used within national borders.” https://piie.com/newsroom/short-videos/how-much-china-paying-foreign-technology

    No one puts a gun to Boeing’s head when it decides to accept a technology transfer arrangement from China. It makes the deal because it expects to make a profit even with the required technology transfer.

    To take an analogous situation: the Supreme Court recently ruled that employers can require workers to accept arbitration–give up their right to sue–as a precondition of employment. The court said that workers freely choose an employment package and if they don’t want to sign away their right to sue, they can work for a different company. So here we have the US government saying that Boeing and other multinationals need protection from big bad China, because otherwise they will sign contracts that are bad for them, but an individual worker, taking a job from one of these companies, doesn’t need protection.

    The class issues are more extreme with patents and copyrights. These government-granted monopolies are forms of protectionism: ‘protectionism,’ as in ‘the opposite of free trade’. Unlike tariffs or quotas, these monopolies don’t raise the price of items by just 10 percent or 25 percent; they raise the price of protected items by several thousand or even tens of thousands of percent. Drugs would be dirt cheap without these protections and software would be free.

    China is a minor infringer of IP compared, say, to South Korea. Bill Gertz’s book, “Betrayal: How the Clinton Administration Undermined American Security tells how the Administration transferred cutting edge nuclear, military and other technology from classified status to Commerce and then openly sold the technology to China. GE transferred its aerospace and its imaging IP to China in exchange for market access, and GE is just the tip of the iceberg. All were short-term decisions now coming back to haunt us.

    To check the record, start at the US premier venue for IP cases, the Federal Court’s Northern District of California, where most complainants will file suits against Chinese entities. A database of Intellectual Property Cases can be found here: dockets.justia.com/browse/circuit-9/state-california/court-candce/noscat-10.

    For the WTO’s international forum for Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights, TRIPS, start here: http://www.wto.org/english/docs_e/legal_e/27-trips_04d_e.htm

    For Chinese IP court filings and decisions is here: chinaipr.com/category/beijing-ip-court/.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Vidi

    chinaipr.com/category/beijing-ip-court/
     
    Agree, and thanks for the link.

    I hope China doesn't fall into the trap of acknowledging all U.S. patents (including the one for peanut butter and jelly sandwiches). There are firms called "patent trolls" whose only business is to accumulate a large portfolio of trivial patents and sue other organizations for violating them; the trolls are seriously impeding innovation in the US. I hope China learns from this.
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  173. FB says:
    @Vidi


    The secular West has not thrived because of Christian Philosophy, but rather in spite of it.
     
    That is ridiculous – Western science came out of Christian universities that abounded in Western nations, with Christian philosophies. Western medicine came out of Christian hospitals.
     
    So Plato and Aristotle were Christians?

    How about the four great inventions from China, which profoundly changed the world; were their inventors Christian?

    Just in case you doubt that China's Four Great Inventions were overwhelmingly influential, here's a quote from one of the West's first scientists:


    Printing, gunpowder and the compass: These three have changed the whole face and state of things throughout the world; the first in literature, the second in warfare, the third in navigation; whence have followed innumerable changes, in so much that no empire, no sect, no star seems to have exerted greater power and influence in human affairs than these mechanical discoveries.

    -- Francis Bacon, Novum Organum, 1620.
     

    Without the Four Great Inventions, the West would probably still be in the very Christian Dark Ages.

    Add to that also the Chinese invention of the stirrup…which, while seemingly modest, turned out to be a transformational technology…making the mounted warrior supreme, especially the heavy cavalry…

    ‘…Some scholars credit the birth of feudalism and its subsequent spread into Northern Italy, Spain, Germany and into the Slavic territories to this use of the stirrup. It is argued that the rising feudal class structure of the European Middle Ages derived ultimately from the use of stirrups:

    “Few inventions have been so simple as the stirrup, but few have had so catalytic an influence on history. The requirements of the new mode of warfare which it made possible found expression in a new form of western European society dominated by an aristocracy of warriors endowed with land so that they might fight in a new and highly specialized way.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Stirrup_Controversy#White’s_hypothesis

    Read More
    • Replies: @Vidi

    Add to [the four great inventions] also the Chinese invention of the stirrup…which, while seemingly modest, turned out to be a transformational technology…making the mounted warrior supreme, especially the heavy cavalry…
     
    Also the crossbow (roughly 500 BC), if we're talking military technology, though that may not have been as influential as the stirrup.
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  174. denk says:
    @Art

    The West has been practicing Christian philosophy, and has thrived.

    Indeed – the current US deep state government has nothing to do with Christianity.

    hhhhhh
     
    Of course, the simple, correct, and honest answer is that the current US Deep State is controlled and run for the benefit of Jews - NOT Christians.

    Just look at Trump and C0ngress! Israel has 1000% support from them all (AIPAC coercion).

    Think Peace --- Do No Harm --- Art

    p.s. Cultures and governments are not the same thing. Cultures transcend governments.

    Even with my atrocious grammar, I do remember my teacher telling us
    has been’ means from some time past up to the current.

    So you’r changing your tune now , that fukus had been practicing xtian philosophy until the current regime ?

    Either way its B.S.

    From day one,
    fukus has been invoking xtian mantra to rape and plunder the world and thrived on the corpse of destroy countries
    [fixed]

    China has been practicing Confucian philosophy and starved

    different philosophy,
    Some would gloat on their ill gotten fortune.
    The Chinese would rather starve momentarily than plunder.

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    • Replies: @Art
    The Chinese would rather starve momentarily than plunder.

    The elite Chinese had no reason to plunder because the average Chinese would not revolt. They just accepted Confucian authority and their plight.

    Think Peace --- Art

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  175. denk says:
    @Tyrion 2
    You think a Jew saying that the West is overly self-critical equals "hypocritical self-praise"?

    You think a Jew saying that the West is overly self-critical equals “hypocritical self-praise”?

    How about bald faced liar ?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    So you're saying America needs a stronger "Culture of Critique?"
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  176. Vidi says:
    @Godfree Roberts
    There's no mystery to this. The records are readily available online.

    For context, 96% of the respondents to the 2018 AmCham China survey responded that China’s IPR enforcement has improved in recent years.https://www.amchamchina.org/policy-advocacy/business-climate-survey/

    Nicholas Lardy of the Peterson Institute of International Economics points out, “China’s payments of licensing fees and royalties for the use of foreign technology have soared in recent years, reaching almost $30 billion last year, nearly a four-fold increase over the last decade.” In fact, Lardy continues, “China probably ranks second globally in the magnitude of licensing fees paid for technology used within national borders.” https://piie.com/newsroom/short-videos/how-much-china-paying-foreign-technology

    No one puts a gun to Boeing’s head when it decides to accept a technology transfer arrangement from China. It makes the deal because it expects to make a profit even with the required technology transfer.

    To take an analogous situation: the Supreme Court recently ruled that employers can require workers to accept arbitration–give up their right to sue–as a precondition of employment. The court said that workers freely choose an employment package and if they don’t want to sign away their right to sue, they can work for a different company. So here we have the US government saying that Boeing and other multinationals need protection from big bad China, because otherwise they will sign contracts that are bad for them, but an individual worker, taking a job from one of these companies, doesn’t need protection.

    The class issues are more extreme with patents and copyrights. These government-granted monopolies are forms of protectionism: 'protectionism,' as in 'the opposite of free trade'. Unlike tariffs or quotas, these monopolies don’t raise the price of items by just 10 percent or 25 percent; they raise the price of protected items by several thousand or even tens of thousands of percent. Drugs would be dirt cheap without these protections and software would be free.

    China is a minor infringer of IP compared, say, to South Korea. Bill Gertz’s book, “Betrayal: How the Clinton Administration Undermined American Security tells how the Administration transferred cutting edge nuclear, military and other technology from classified status to Commerce and then openly sold the technology to China. GE transferred its aerospace and its imaging IP to China in exchange for market access, and GE is just the tip of the iceberg. All were short-term decisions now coming back to haunt us.

    To check the record, start at the US premier venue for IP cases, the Federal Court’s Northern District of California, where most complainants will file suits against Chinese entities. A database of Intellectual Property Cases can be found here: dockets.justia.com/browse/circuit-9/state-california/court-candce/noscat-10.

    For the WTO’s international forum for Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights, TRIPS, start here: http://www.wto.org/english/docs_e/legal_e/27-trips_04d_e.htm

    For Chinese IP court filings and decisions is here: chinaipr.com/category/beijing-ip-court/.

    chinaipr.com/category/beijing-ip-court/

    Agree, and thanks for the link.

    I hope China doesn’t fall into the trap of acknowledging all U.S. patents (including the one for peanut butter and jelly sandwiches). There are firms called “patent trolls” whose only business is to accumulate a large portfolio of trivial patents and sue other organizations for violating them; the trolls are seriously impeding innovation in the US. I hope China learns from this.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
    They're acutely aware of that problem and are far less protective of IP rights than the US–but not to the point of discouraging the creation of IP, as we see from patent filings.
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  177. Vidi says:
    @FB
    Add to that also the Chinese invention of the stirrup...which, while seemingly modest, turned out to be a transformational technology...making the mounted warrior supreme, especially the heavy cavalry...

    '...Some scholars credit the birth of feudalism and its subsequent spread into Northern Italy, Spain, Germany and into the Slavic territories to this use of the stirrup. It is argued that the rising feudal class structure of the European Middle Ages derived ultimately from the use of stirrups:

    "Few inventions have been so simple as the stirrup, but few have had so catalytic an influence on history. The requirements of the new mode of warfare which it made possible found expression in a new form of western European society dominated by an aristocracy of warriors endowed with land so that they might fight in a new and highly specialized way."
     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Stirrup_Controversy#White's_hypothesis

    Add to [the four great inventions] also the Chinese invention of the stirrup…which, while seemingly modest, turned out to be a transformational technology…making the mounted warrior supreme, especially the heavy cavalry…

    Also the crossbow (roughly 500 BC), if we’re talking military technology, though that may not have been as influential as the stirrup.

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  178. @Vidi

    chinaipr.com/category/beijing-ip-court/
     
    Agree, and thanks for the link.

    I hope China doesn't fall into the trap of acknowledging all U.S. patents (including the one for peanut butter and jelly sandwiches). There are firms called "patent trolls" whose only business is to accumulate a large portfolio of trivial patents and sue other organizations for violating them; the trolls are seriously impeding innovation in the US. I hope China learns from this.

    They’re acutely aware of that problem and are far less protective of IP rights than the US–but not to the point of discouraging the creation of IP, as we see from patent filings.

    Read More
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  179. RedRobbo says:
    @Godfree Roberts
    Why not back up your allegations with evidence?

    Otherwise, you might be mistaken for a racist, or an imperialist, even a racist imperialist.

    95% of Chinese trust their government and the stats support them: it delivers what it promises, doesn't lie to them and protects their human rights better than ours.

    Her’s some further evidence:

    In his Report of an Investigation into the Peasant Movement in Hunan (1927), Mao admitted that the coming revolution would not be socialist: ‘To overthrow these feudal forces is the real objective of the revolution’.

    He is reported to have told a US diplomat in 1945: ‘China needs to build up light industries to supply her own market and raise the living standards of her own people. Eventually she can supply these goods to other countries in the Far East. To help pay for this foreign trade and investment, she has raw materials and agricultural products. America is not only the most suitable country to assist this economic development of China: she is also the only country fully able to participate. ‘

    In 1949, Mao was careful to point out that the new society would not be Socialist. His inaugural speech said:
    To counter imperialist oppression and raise her backward economy to a higher level, China must utilize all the factors of urban and rural capitalism that are beneficial and not harmful to the national economy and people’s livelihood . . . Our present policy is to regulate capitalism, not to destroy it.

    Thatcher: ‘there is only one economic system in the world, and that is capitalism. The difference lies in whether the capital is in the hands of the State or whether the greater part of it is in the hands of people outside of State control,’ ( House of Commons speech, 24 November, 1976).

    Joshua Kurlantzick provides a modern day assessment: ‘the most serious threat from state capitalism is that the two big state capitalist authoritarian powers, China and Russia, will use their state companies as weapons in conflicts with other countries, as vehicles to control certain types of natural resources, as vehicles for obtaining and stealing sensitive technology from other nations, or as tools for undermining environmental and labor norms in countries where their state companies invest’ (State Capitalism: How the Return of Statism is Transforming the World, OUP USA, June 2016)

    Review: Chinese Workers Strike against Runaway Factories:

    http://bit.ly/2LypjZY

    State capitalist China has over 100 billionaires who together have wealth equal to twice Ireland’s GDP and, according to a Peking University report from 2016, its income disparity is getting worse with the top 1 percent owning a third of the country’s wealth and the bottom 25 percent of the population just 1 percent.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
    The 'Peking University report was superseded by Facundo Alvaredo, Lucas Chancel, Thomas Piketty. Emmanuel Saez and Gabriel Zucman in their paper, GLOBAL INEQUALITY DYNAMICS, http://www.nber.org/papers/w23119. Here's the skinny:

    In the past forty years, the share of national income earned by the bottom half of Chinese workers fell from twenty-seven percent to fifteen percent while Americans’ fell from twenty percent to twelve percent.

    At the top end, China’s one percent captured thirteen percent of national income while America’s captured twenty.

    I found media responses amusing: Fortune reported that the U.S. has the fourth highest income inequality in the world but offered no solutions. The People’s Daily wrote, “In developed countries such as America–whose GINI index sometimes reaches 0.4–income disparities are eased through gradually increasing taxation on the wealthy and improving welfare systems to help the poor. China should learn from America’s experience”.

    They've learned so well that, by June 1, 2021, every Chinese–Tibetan, Uyghur or whatever–will have a home, a job, plenty of food, education, safe streets, health and old age care. 

    On that day there will be more poor, hungry and imprisoned people in America than in China.

    Was Marx psychic?
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  180. Mao was repeating Marx’s formula (though he tried to beat it with the Great Leap) that requires a nation to go through developmental stages, of which capitalism is a part. He wrote to every US President from Roosevelt on, asking them to export capitalism to China. None replied.

    Joshua Kurlantzick’s concern–that China and Russia will use their state companies as weapons or vehicles and tools for undermining environmental and labor norms in countries where their state companies invest–is just plain silly. First, capitalist countries have used their corporations as weapons or vehicles and tools since the private corporation was chartered (chartered by the State, which can revoke the charter at will). And private corporations have used their States as weapons, vehicles and tools for just as long. The East India Company springs to mind. All states are to some degree fascist, otherwise they would fall apart. All states have oligarchies for the same reason.

    China’s oligarchy admits its existence and takes responsibility for its policies, that’s why 90% of Chinese trust it. America’s oligarchy won’t admit its existence and won’t take responsibility for its policies, that’s why 9% of Americans trust it.

    Proof, meet pudding.

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  181. @RedRobbo
    Her's some further evidence:

    In his Report of an Investigation into the Peasant Movement in Hunan (1927), Mao admitted that the coming revolution would not be socialist: ‘To overthrow these feudal forces is the real objective of the revolution’.

    He is reported to have told a US diplomat in 1945: ‘China needs to build up light industries to supply her own market and raise the living standards of her own people. Eventually she can supply these goods to other countries in the Far East. To help pay for this foreign trade and investment, she has raw materials and agricultural products. America is not only the most suitable country to assist this economic development of China: she is also the only country fully able to participate. ‘

    In 1949, Mao was careful to point out that the new society would not be Socialist. His inaugural speech said:
    To counter imperialist oppression and raise her backward economy to a higher level, China must utilize all the factors of urban and rural capitalism that are beneficial and not harmful to the national economy and people’s livelihood . . . Our present policy is to regulate capitalism, not to destroy it.

    Thatcher: 'there is only one economic system in the world, and that is capitalism. The difference lies in whether the capital is in the hands of the State or whether the greater part of it is in the hands of people outside of State control,' ( House of Commons speech, 24 November, 1976).

    Joshua Kurlantzick provides a modern day assessment: 'the most serious threat from state capitalism is that the two big state capitalist authoritarian powers, China and Russia, will use their state companies as weapons in conflicts with other countries, as vehicles to control certain types of natural resources, as vehicles for obtaining and stealing sensitive technology from other nations, or as tools for undermining environmental and labor norms in countries where their state companies invest' (State Capitalism: How the Return of Statism is Transforming the World, OUP USA, June 2016)

    Review: Chinese Workers Strike against Runaway Factories:
    http://bit.ly/2LypjZY

    State capitalist China has over 100 billionaires who together have wealth equal to twice Ireland's GDP and, according to a Peking University report from 2016, its income disparity is getting worse with the top 1 percent owning a third of the country's wealth and the bottom 25 percent of the population just 1 percent.

    The ‘Peking University report was superseded by Facundo Alvaredo, Lucas Chancel, Thomas Piketty. Emmanuel Saez and Gabriel Zucman in their paper, GLOBAL INEQUALITY DYNAMICS, http://www.nber.org/papers/w23119. Here’s the skinny:

    In the past forty years, the share of national income earned by the bottom half of Chinese workers fell from twenty-seven percent to fifteen percent while Americans’ fell from twenty percent to twelve percent.

    At the top end, China’s one percent captured thirteen percent of national income while America’s captured twenty.

    I found media responses amusing: Fortune reported that the U.S. has the fourth highest income inequality in the world but offered no solutions. The People’s Daily wrote, “In developed countries such as America–whose GINI index sometimes reaches 0.4–income disparities are eased through gradually increasing taxation on the wealthy and improving welfare systems to help the poor. China should learn from America’s experience”.

    They’ve learned so well that, by June 1, 2021, every Chinese–Tibetan, Uyghur or whatever–will have a home, a job, plenty of food, education, safe streets, health and old age care. 

    On that day there will be more poor, hungry and imprisoned people in America than in China.

    Was Marx psychic?

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    • Replies: @RedRobbo
    "Was Marx psychic? "
    No, but he'd probably approve of this:
    http://chuangcn.org/2018/03/marxconn/
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  182. Erebus says:
    @Vidi


    … China has always paid through the nose.
     
    Now you’re being disingenuous. They pay for a fraction of what they use, and they pay a fraction of market value when they actually buy/license IP (as opposed to profit repat).
     
    No, you are being disigenuous, Erebus. Why should China pay for every U.S. patent it uses when the U.S. literally tries to patent everything, right down to the peanut butter and jelly sandwich?

    (Yes, U.S. patent 6004596 was awarded to Smuckers for the crustless PB&J, which shows how corrupt the U.S. patent office really is. I don't think this joke of a patent has been overturned even now.)

    Then there's the famous litigation between Apple and Samsung, where Apple actually won a $1 billion judgement, partially for phones with rounded corners. This was absolutely ridiculous, so Samsung of course appealed the ruling. I think the latest judgement still demands $500 million from the South Korean company. Yes, rounding the corners of your phone is considered such a brilliant innovation in the U.S. that it's worth half a billion dollars.

    With such an insane IP policy in the US, why should China care? (When it isn't dying of laughter.)

    No, you are being disigenuous, Erebus. Why should China pay for every U.S. patent it uses when the U.S. literally tries to patent everything, right down to the peanut butter and jelly sandwich?

    Huh? Read my post at #160. That is emphatically not what we’re talking about here. Read my post again, and perhaps you (and Godfree) will eventually understand the point of it.

    I agree that the USPTO has clearly abandoned the principle that real innovation, what used to be called “the teaching”, must underlie the granting of a patent, and now issues patents on whatever notion hasn’t been patented before, letting the courts sort out the prior art and innovation issues afterwards.
    The US has “weaponized” IP, and following the principle that “Quantity has a quality of its own”, now grants patents willy-nilly. China, apparently deciding to fight fire with fire, grants patents at almost the same pace, and of the same quality as the US.

    In sum, your statement:

    With such an insane IP policy in the US, why should China care? (When it isn’t dying of laughter.)

    … misses the point. That China has no legal obligation to uphold US, or any, patents that haven’t been granted in China is a given, and holds for all countries.

    The world’s complaints about China’s IP practices can be summed as follows:
    A) China’s requirement that foreign companies wishing to set up shop in China must sell/license their IP into the Chinese joint venture at a discount to market value despite risk of being propagated to 3rd parties.

    B) China is not doing enough to curb its vast army of small & medium shops that flood China and RoW with counterfeit products. Fake Rolexes, RayBans and Guccis are a very small part of the counterfeit business. The stories of fakes flooding the middle-lower end of the brand spectrum on eBay & Amazon materially harms those who spend time, money and effort inventing/developing products & brands.

    C) Chinese courts do not always recognize even a Chinese registered patent if it is foreign owned, or treat the violator with a leniency that doesn’t come close to adequate compensating for the damage done. However, a couple of recent cases I’m aware of suggest that may be changing quickly.

    It’s those 3 points where the world has a problem with China. Your, and Godfree’s points are irrelevant to them.

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  183. Chinese says:
    @jim jones
    Would you like to live in a Chinese house?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XopSDJq6w8E

    “Nadeau observes that the Chinese language even lacks equivalents for freedom, liberty, individual, autonomy, rights, choice, equality and dignity.”

    What a load of nonsense!

    自由- liberty, freedom
    自治的 – autonomous
    权 – rights
    选择 – choice
    平等 – equality
    尊严 – dignity

    Clearly Nadeau has no idea what he is talking about and, with respect, your critical capacity must be severely lacking if you believe any human language, particularly one derived from of a longstanding civilisation and used in a modern society, would be incapable of expressing these concepts. How do you think Mao pushed for communism if he didn’t use words such as equality and rights? How do you think Taiwan has elections if there is no word for choice? How could the conventions you refer to be ratified and translated into Chinese if there was no word for rights? Have you never heard of the various ‘autonomous’ regions of China? You probably never even read the Chinese constitution.

    Superficially the fact the Chinese language does have these words and that some of them are in the Chinese constitution might support your pro Chinese slant (or should that be propaganda), but the lack of even rudimentary knowledge of these basic facts suggests you have done no research and have no business commenting on human rights in China at all.

    So basically after reading that, I thought the whole article would be badly thought out nonsense. I barely skimmed the rest, but I saw the claim that neither China nor US voters directly elect the head of state. While technically true it shows complete ignorance of the practical reality, or maybe just a mendacious wish to deceive. Most people noticed in 2016 the contest was between Trump and Clinton – and voters basically had that in mind when voting. Watch some news and you might figure it out.

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    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
    So Nadeau's claim about Chinese vocabulary made the entire article nonsense? Come, come.
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  184. Anonymous[321] • Disclaimer says:
    @FB
    real 'authoritative' youtube video there...a couple of certified yahoos who go and find some dilapitaded building...like there aren't all kinds like that in any city...does anyone even live there...I didn't notice a single live Chinese person in that whole video...LOL...I guess all 1.4 billion of them must be hiding...

    Why not interview some of the people there...?...oh yeah...because then their fake BS would fall apart...

    And these certified yahoos are talking about building 'standards'...funny I didn't see their ciuvil engineering diplomas displayed in the video...LOL

    Ya .. he is a youtube attention whore. His situation must be pretty desperate because he seems willing to say anything for hits.

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  185. Anonymous[321] • Disclaimer says:
    @Godfree Roberts
    I've been visiting China since 1967, live an hour from the SW border and travel there several times a year, mostly to verify charts like the one in the article.

    I go to remote, Tier 2 or Tier 3 cities and inventory their infrastructure: does it match what a city of that size needs? How much construction is going on (of course), and the mood and physical cues of everyone I meet–their clothing, grooming, responsiveness, interactions with others, etc.

    I talk to less fortunate folks, like single mothers with illegitimate children, chamber maids and vendors. I talk to local expats–all readily accessible through their local clubs online–and see if their observations agree with mine.

    So far, everything checks out.

    What's more, everything I see matches what you would infer from studying reports by the WTO, IMF, World Bank, foreign and local patent offices, trade figures, UN rapporteurs' and RAND reports.

    What, specifically did you see that occasioned your doubt? Where did you see it? When? Do you have an image or other evidence we can see?

    I remember stumbling across a bunch of Chinese sleeping rough under an underpass in Beijing, while walking from the central train station to the main tourist area. I’m guessing they were migrants from the country who had come to the big city looking for work.

    Saying there’s zero homelessness in China is a massive lie.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
    Let's wait until June 1, 2021 to hear how president announces it.

    He will qualify it, of course, but home ownership among China's bottom quartile in 2017 was already 97%.

    It has nothing to do with lying. It's just how you define the result.
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  186. Anonymous[321] • Disclaimer says:
    @Bardon Kaldian
    Personally, I don't believe in "I've lived 30 years ..." witnesses. So what? To form a valid, multifaceted view on a complex issue, one should possess a critical ability, largeness of mind, both intellectual elasticity & reliable mental framework- which is very rare.

    Other than that, one remains bogged down in trivialities:

    * the Chinese are old, self-reliant & somehow autistic race and culture. They're hyper-nationalists by Western standards.

    * they are basically copycats with flashes of originality.

    * being communal & ancient culture, they value conformity over individuality

    * good news: low rates of violent crime; bad news: they're boringly the same & you can't discern Ching from Chong. Chinese language will never be a lingua franca- except in east Asia.

    * they are developing with fast pace, but even if they were all at the level of Taiwan or Singapore- they will remain apart from the rest of the world. There is no enough universality in that culture, whether high or low, to become global (unlike Westerners in all their manifestations)

    * they will always be different form Europeans (any variety), and even more from Indians, Muslims (as "brown" race & culture), let alone Africans whom they have virtually nothing in common with

    The eternal Han is simply a different species from Occidens aeternus.

    Chinese language will never be a lingua franca- except in east Asia.

    I disagree. It’s going to be a globally useful language, not far behind English.

    Firstly, Chinese tourists are almost incapable of speaking any other language, and yet have a large supply of easy money to dump all over the world. This encourages the tourist industry to become fluent in their language.

    Secondly, the Chinese diaspora already has a global reach, and is rapidly standardising around the Mandarin form of Chinese. This will spread the language wherever they do business. Expect random Africans to be able to speak basic Chinese because they had a Chinese boss a few years back.

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  187. Anonymous[321] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ibn Issam
    Although I have many criticisms of my own about China, it is still interesting and eye-opening to see the comparison with U.S.A.

    “Christian-based Western values like radical autonomy of the individual, the soul in a transcendent relationship to the world, the prioritizing of the individual over the family and the prioritizing of the individual over the state are alien to the Chinese.”
     
    This reminds me of Max Weber’s studies on the Protestant Reformation and the rise of Capitalism. The Christian ideal of individual spirit and elevation of the self above all else and all others has been extremely detrimental to western culture and society. I think that the western ideals about human rights are foreign to most traditional societies. Although Traditional societies, cultures, civilizations may not be in fundamental disagreement with the idea of human rights, there is still a core disagreement on what human rights are based upon or what authority they are derived from.


    Premier Wen Jiabao said, “Science, democracy, rule of law, freedom and human rights are not concepts unique to capitalism. Rather, they are common values pursued by all mankind throughout history: the fruits of human civilization. It is only that–at different historical stages and in different countries–they are achieved through different means and in different forms”.

     

    This statement by Premier Jibao is very accurate and holds true for Islamic civilization as well. Although I would acknowledge that there are many human rights abuses in various Muslim majority countries, and that many Muslims today have acted less than exemplary. I would say that this is largely due to not implementing Islam in the most proper and beneficial ways as it was implemented historically.

    Fundamental Human Rights are enshrined in Islamic Law. Indeed, one of the great scholars of Islam Ibn al-Qayyim (d. 1350) once said that, “the Islam in its entirety is justice, mercy and benefit. So if any issue that leads from justice to injustice, or mercy to its opposite, or benefit to harm, then it is NOT from Islam, even if someone thought that it is.” So the collective aim of Islam and Islamic Law is to facilitate Justice, peace, and benefit for humanity in this life and in the hereafter. This includes an assurance of social welfare and well-being.

    In Islamic tradition the individual has responsibilities toward his family, community, tribe, nation, co-religionists, humanity in general, and ultimately to Almighty God Allah, who mandates human rights for all mankind. So in Islam, human rights are grounded in God’s religion, and the well-being of the individual is closely connected to the greater community and the good works of charity, kindness, mercy and selfless service to other people. While Islam maintains the equality of all people, it is made clear that God Judges between us based on our piety, which should motivate us to compete in doing good works, and which engenders positive and beneficial service to others in the community. Each individual has basic Human rights which help assure his welfare, but which also do not violate the rights of the community, or cross the boundaries laid out by God.

    The great Islamic philosopher, scholar, and theologian Al-Ghazzali derived from the Qur’an and Sunnah five necessities that need to be sustained in order to ensure individual and social welfare and to stave of both unbearable hardship in this life and potential punishment in the hereafter. These are the following:

    1-Religion (freedom to practice)
    2-Life (Sanctity of Life)
    3-Intellect (uphold the power of reason, knowledge and education)
    4-Property (Guarantee security of assets)
    5- Lineage (Importance of family/children)

    Therefore, it can be seen that Islam enhances and refines life by establishing and protecting the essential human rights of people, while at the same time, seeking to assure that the individual does abuse rights of other people. The one who truly seeks to please his Creator, would not abuse another person’s rights, as that would be a crime against one’s own self, and to God who is also the creator of the person abused. It is God himself, who has ordained Human Rights, and Justice for the benefit of his creatures as it exemplifies his Mercy unto us all.

    It’s a shame most Muslims are hypocrites.

    1-Religion (freedom to practice)

    … except when the religion is not Islam.

    2-Life (Sanctity of Life)

    Death to those who defile Islam!

    3-Intellect (uphold the power of reason, knowledge and education)

    Islamic reasoning is based upon a huge ever shifting corpus of a priori recordings from way back when. Scientific discovery and technology are the fruits of intellect, and the Islamic world hasn’t produced anything of note for about 600 years.

    4-Property (Guarantee security of assets)

    Didn’t work so well for the Hindus and Sikhs in Pakistan.

    5- Lineage (Importance of family/children)

    Now if only they could focus on quality rather than quantity!

    I’m sorry to rip on your religion, but the hypocrisy is quite odorous. Everything can be made to look good on paper, but the test is the fruit it bares.

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    • Replies: @Ibn Issam
    It is easy to rip on something that one only superficially understands in order to portray it as something else, or misportray it in order to focus only on negatives. Al-Ghazzali wrote much more in depth on the subject than I alluded to in my original comment. When people cannot find it within themselves to acknowledge anything at all positive in Islam, I find it either uninformed and misguided at best, or intentionally mendacious at worst, on their part.

    It is sad that rather than having a productive discussion, some people would rather lecture, level accusations and talk down to Muslims as if we need your guidance.

    In regard to your accusations:
    1 - Islam guarantees freedom to practice any religion to any group who are considered from the people of the book. Muslims historically have been very accommodating and have applied this title to Hindus. Zoroastrians, Buddhist, Jews, Christians and many others thus allowing them to keep their religious beliefs intact and practice freely.
    2- It is the prerogative of a people to determine what is a capital offense within the context of their own society. Lecturing Muslims from outside that context just sounds uppity and arrogant. I will admit that there have been times when the death penalty has been misused, and this is something that should be addressed, but the same holds true for the death penalty as applied in the West as well.
    3- Contrary to popular misunderstandings, Islam is not in opposition to Scientific discovery and technology. Islam encourages seeking knowledge. It’s considered an act of worship. The "fruits of intellect" are not limited to Scientific discovery and technology alone. Philosophy, Theology, Reasoning, Logic, Law, mathematics, architecture, engineering, creative artistic works, Literary poetry, prose and linguistic expressionism, the list goes on, etc. etc. . There are numerous contemporary Muslims who have excelled in these areas and more, including Muslim scientists who continue to make scientific discoveries today, and they should not be discounted.
    4- Hindu's and Sikhs were allowed to keep their properties, including religious sites, even after Muslim rule was established.
    5- I will not bother to address your bigoted and racist remark on this point.

    Salaamtak.
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  188. Anonymous[321] • Disclaimer says:
    @Vidi
    I wrote:

    [The technology was bought by China], not stolen. No one forced American corporations to do business in China. The price of making giant profits was that they had to transfer technology, but this was purely voluntary -- the corps were totally free to stay away.
     
    I might add that Americans -- and other Westerners, but especially Americans -- appear extremely butt-hurt that the transfer of technology to China was an honest business transaction. These people seem to think that it's their divine right to pay starvation wages, make enormous profits as a consequence, and not give anything back.

    It’s not always honest, according to American law. Their reverse engineering is legendary, and it’s almost impossible to enforce laws against Chinese companies operating inside China.

    Personally, I consider IP laws to be badly designed and generally used to empower the big guys at the expense of the little guys. Therefore, in my eyes, China’s ‘fuck IP’ approach is actually a welcome breath of fresh air. It’s not without it’s share of resultant problems (Chinese manufacturing companies are loath to spend on product improvement, because their competitors will copy their advances for free) but I still consider it a valid alternative to the American way.

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  189. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Erebus

    ... nobody has seen a beggar in a Chinese city since 2016 and that’s what the stats say, too.
     
    Well, my experience of big Chinese cities says there's still a few, though much (as in an order of magnitude) less than previously. Not that I was paying attention at the time, but your citing of 2016 coincides with experience... they disappeared a couple of years ago.

    My thinking was that China's hyper-adoption of cashless payment systems meant a sudden dearth of cash on the street. In any case, the common wisdom was that most beggary was a business enterprise. There was no shortage of work available.

    Or did some governmental move in 2016 put them out of business?

    A beggar once approached me on the Shanghai tube. The half full carriage of only Chinese people ushered/chased him away from me. I suspect that begging in China may not be particularly lucrative.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Erebus
    You don't say when it was, but I've had parallel experiences.

    As for its profitability, I once stumbled on a territorial dispute between a couple of the local "beggars" at the moment of payoff. It was pulled from a bag full of cash, so there's money to be made. Presumably, it's a matter of location.

    Back when they commonly worked the outdoor restaurants in their territory, I was an obvious target, but had great way to get rid of them.... offer them a job. After the initial shock, they always moved along quickly, often to a chorus of snickers from the other (Chinese) patrons.
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  190. Tyrion 2 says:
    @D
    You are mistaken if you think the expats love China. If there is anything they prefer about life in China, it's the rock star celebrity treatment they get from the idiot locals who think being white automatically means better.

    And yes, most of the long-term expats are indeed losers back home. They don't really have a marketable skill so they go to China (or some other country in Asia) and make a living by basically being white. By rights they should be nothing more than dishwashers or fruit pickers, just like a non-skilled immigrant would be in America, but since they're white they get to do something reasonably respectable like teaching English. That said, the reputation of these LBHs in Asia has become so bad in Asia that "English teacher" is now something of a disparaging label in Asia by association. These days, no self-respecting expat in Asia wants to be known as an English teacher.

    I never taught in China but having visited there I can only assume that the incredibly easy sex with pretty and surprisingly elite girls would be very corrupting.

    I was always confused as to why the local men didn’t resent this more. Men usually do in these circumstances. I suppose it might be because the very good looking/successful ones are having an incredibly fun time and the others just sort of assume you are in the same group as those? Or perhaps it is just a function of the Buddhist physical/spiritual world separation, so sex is sport? Or maybe the language gap shrouds my horrific chat?

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  191. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Godfree Roberts
    I asked a retired Chinese banker who's interested in poverty reduction, since he originally came from a poor village. He says the chart probably represents a combination of changed methodologies, catchup after years of neglect, rural food subsidies and urbanization.

    He explained that the rather stubborn residue, after 2009, is made up of Category Three poor people –capable of work but external conditions or resources like jobs are poor and for whom relocation or employment skills training may be effective–and Category Four, people who are permanently incapacitated like the severely disabled who should be supported by the social protection system.

    Right now, everyone in those categories has been identified and helped by an official (whose personal cel number they have) responsible for getting them across the line by 2021.

    While I don’t believe your baseless and seemingly propagandistic anecdotes and assertions, I do think that you’d be more credible if you pointed out the biggest barrier to America improving its minimum living standards: “bring me your poor, huddled, tired, useless, lazy, whatever etc. etc.”

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  192. Tyrion 2 says:
    @denk

    You think a Jew saying that the West is overly self-critical equals “hypocritical self-praise”?
     
    How about bald faced liar ?

    So you’re saying America needs a stronger “Culture of Critique?”

    Read More
    • Replies: @denk
    tyrion


    West is overly self-critical
     
    You'r a bald faced liar.

    anonfromtn

    If anything, the West praises itself much more than it deserves. “Shining city on the hill” and the rest of this BS.
     
    QED
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  193. @Anonymous
    I remember stumbling across a bunch of Chinese sleeping rough under an underpass in Beijing, while walking from the central train station to the main tourist area. I'm guessing they were migrants from the country who had come to the big city looking for work.

    Saying there's zero homelessness in China is a massive lie.

    Let’s wait until June 1, 2021 to hear how president announces it.

    He will qualify it, of course, but home ownership among China’s bottom quartile in 2017 was already 97%.

    It has nothing to do with lying. It’s just how you define the result.

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  194. @Chinese
    “Nadeau observes that the Chinese language even lacks equivalents for freedom, liberty, individual, autonomy, rights, choice, equality and dignity.”

    What a load of nonsense!

    自由- liberty, freedom
    自治的 - autonomous
    权 - rights
    选择 - choice
    平等 - equality
    尊严 - dignity

    Clearly Nadeau has no idea what he is talking about and, with respect, your critical capacity must be severely lacking if you believe any human language, particularly one derived from of a longstanding civilisation and used in a modern society, would be incapable of expressing these concepts. How do you think Mao pushed for communism if he didn’t use words such as equality and rights? How do you think Taiwan has elections if there is no word for choice? How could the conventions you refer to be ratified and translated into Chinese if there was no word for rights? Have you never heard of the various ‘autonomous’ regions of China? You probably never even read the Chinese constitution.

    Superficially the fact the Chinese language does have these words and that some of them are in the Chinese constitution might support your pro Chinese slant (or should that be propaganda), but the lack of even rudimentary knowledge of these basic facts suggests you have done no research and have no business commenting on human rights in China at all.

    So basically after reading that, I thought the whole article would be badly thought out nonsense. I barely skimmed the rest, but I saw the claim that neither China nor US voters directly elect the head of state. While technically true it shows complete ignorance of the practical reality, or maybe just a mendacious wish to deceive. Most people noticed in 2016 the contest was between Trump and Clinton - and voters basically had that in mind when voting. Watch some news and you might figure it out.

    So Nadeau’s claim about Chinese vocabulary made the entire article nonsense? Come, come.

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  195. denk says:
    @Tyrion 2
    So you're saying America needs a stronger "Culture of Critique?"

    tyrion

    West is overly self-critical

    You’r a bald faced liar.

    anonfromtn

    If anything, the West praises itself much more than it deserves. “Shining city on the hill” and the rest of this BS.

    QED

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  196. Art says:
    @denk
    Even with my atrocious grammar, I do remember my teacher telling us
    'has been' means from some time past up to the current.

    So you'r changing your tune now , that fukus had been practicing xtian philosophy until the current regime ?

    Either way its B.S.

    From day one,
    fukus has been invoking xtian mantra to rape and plunder the world and thrived on the corpse of destroy countries
    [fixed]

    China has been practicing Confucian philosophy and starved
     
    different philosophy,
    Some would gloat on their ill gotten fortune.
    The Chinese would rather starve momentarily than plunder.

    The Chinese would rather starve momentarily than plunder.

    The elite Chinese had no reason to plunder because the average Chinese would not revolt. They just accepted Confucian authority and their plight.

    Think Peace — Art

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    • Replies: @denk
    wow , peaceman, are you willfully obtuse or what ?

    Im talking about the plunder of nations, like the Opium war, the rape of India, Africa

    Exhibit Philippines,
    gawd's army in action.

    Though the war against the Filipinos is largely forgotten or ignored in this country, it was a bloody and brutal conflict that saw American soldiers and disease kill hundreds of thousands of Filipinos. While Black men, women and children were being tortured and killed in this country, White American soldiers slaughtered the brown-skinned inhabitants of the Philippines so that American businesses could expand into the Pacific.

    We will not renounce our part in the mission of our race, trustee, under God, of the civilization of the world,” said Sen. Albert Beveridge in the U.S. Senate, speaking for the economic and political interests of this country. “Where shall we turn for consumers of our surplus? Georgraphy answers the question. China is our natural customer....The Philippines give us a base at the door of all the East.”

    -------------

    Spain, seeing the futility of trying to stop the U.S. militarily, sold all its possessions to the United States for $20 million. This also included the Philippines, with Pres. William McKinley clothing the theft in the following words: “...there was nothing left for us to do but to take them all (all of Spain’s possessions) and to educate the Filipinos, and uplift and civilize and Christianize them, and by God’s grace do the very best we could by them, as our fellow men for whom Christ also died.

    https://www.countercurrents.org/us-cox240107.htm
     
    OMFG,
    The hubris !

    P.S.
    As for your misdirection about Chinese sheeples 'subservience' to tyranny.
    ANY govn that lost its credibility would be brought down eventually,, the Yuan, the Qing, the murkkan backed ROC....

    As for your overlords.....

    Its the Jews , nuthin but the Jews
     
    When are you good xtians gonna do something about it ?

    Did your gawd ask you to turn the other cheek as well ?
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  197. FB says:

    Well…last night I decided to screen, again, The Last Emperor…after an absence of some years…

    A film of epic historical sweep, Bernardo Bertolucci’s 1987 story of Pu Yi…who ascends to the Dragon Throne as an infant barely three years old, only to be swept along by the most tumultuous currents of perhaps any era in world history…the first half of the 20′th century…

    The film opens in 1950, with a train pulling into a station, as neatly uniformed Chinese soldiers line the platform and men in civil clothing get off the train cars…while a voice from loudspeakers continuously instructs the ‘war criminals’ to proceed in orderly fashion to their destination…a large hall where they are given soup…and where Pu Yi attempts to slit his wrists in an adjacent washroom…

    Their ultimate home is the Fushun Prison aka ‘War Criminals Management Center’…where the prisoners are each given a notebook in which to write a detailed account of their confessions…

    Pu Yi’s life story… shown in flashbacks as he reconstructs the last 42 years of his life in his prison notebook, starts with his arrival in the Forbidden City at age three…and moves fluidly through his road to adulthood and an arranged marriage to two beautiful young wives…and eventually his departure from the Forbidden City as the country descends into chaos during the ‘warlord era’ era of the 1920s…

    He and his coterie of wives and servants take refuge in the Japanese embassy and by 1932 he is installed as the puppet ‘emperor’ of Japanese-occupied Manchuria, his birthplace and the seat of the Qing Dynasty which had ruled China since 1644…

    During this time, China is split into the Japanese ‘Manchukuo’ and the Republic of China under the Western-supported dictator Chiang Kai-shek…

    As the puppet head of Manchukuo, Pu Yi cuts a tragicomic figure who is increasingly disrespected by his Japanese masters, even while he imagines that he is somehow manipulating them, and is on the road to restoring his ‘empire’ over all of China…the Japanese have no qualms about spelling out to him their imperial ambitions for Asia…that they will rule all of China, as well as India, Burma and the South Pacific, nations and races that are inferior to the Japanese…Japanese is taught in the schools of Manchukuo…

    But of course all this comes to naught as the Soviet army invades Manchuria in August 1945 and quickly rolls up the Japanese occupation forces…

    In a last minute attempt to escape, Pu Yi boards a military plane for Tokyo, but it is too late… the sky is filled with Red Army paratroopers, before the plane can even taxi out of the hangar…he is taken into custody and held in the USSR for five years, the Russians refusing to extradite him into the hands of the imperialist puppet Chiang…he is handed over only after Mao’s Chinese Communists defeat the US-supported Chiang and drive his rump forces to Taiwan…

    With this backdrop of tumultuous history, the real story is one of Pu Yi finding redemption in the Fushun ‘re-education’ camp, under the careful tutelage of the prison governor, played strongly here by Ying Ruocheng who is not only an actor, but the PRC vice minister for Culture at the time of filming…

    Pu Yi, clearly a man of weak character who has never been in control of anything in his life, has constructed for himself a fantastically naive narrative of his traitorous role in the Japanese occupation of Manchuria…a delusion that the endlessly patient governor helps Pu Yi to finally accept…setting the ill-fated emperor free, for the first time in his life…he is pardoned in 1959 and embraces his occupation as a gardener in Beijing…

    We witness a poignant scene some years later, in the 1960s, during the chaotic Cultural Revolution, where Pu Yi spots the governor being marched shamefully through the streets by angry, flag-waving young people carrying Mao’s ‘little red book’ and chanting slogans and waving red banners…he approaches the dismissive young men and implores them that they have made an error…

    ‘…This is a good man, he is a teacher…you have made a mistake’

    As historian and former Newsweek journalist Edward Behr notes…

    ‘…In the eyes of Mao and other Chinese Communist leaders, Pu Yi, the last Emperor, was the epitome of all that had been evil in old Chinese society.

    If he could be shown to have undergone sincere, permanent change, what hope was there for the most diehard counter-revolutionary? The more overwhelming the guilt, the more spectacular the redemption-and the greater glory of the Chinese Communist Party…’

    Watching this film, one is reminded just how badly today’s world needs such re-education initiatives…as more and more people live in a fantastic world of make-believe, carefully spun by a pervasive indoctrination machine making use of powerful psychological tools and media…

    At least the ‘lost’ emperor Pu Yi did redeem himself…as Bertolucci shows…at its core it is the story of embracing the truth to set yourself free…most in today’s world will unfortunately never have this chance…

    –Qing Dynasty Flag

    [MORE]

    –Pu Yi in 1922…

    –A portrait of the Emperor in 1934, from a Japanese magazine…

    –Pu Yi and a Soviet military officer…

    –Fushun war Criminals Management Center…

    –Chinese actor and cultural ambassador Ying Ruocheng…

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art
    FB -- An excellent post --- Thanks

    Looks like China must have an Emperor.

    The new commie guy has made himself president for life.

    Hmm --- what is going to be his tragic fate?

    Think Peace --- Art
    , @Erebus
    Seconding Art's remark.
    It's been 30(?) years since I saw that movie. Bertolucci was a master. Now I guess I'll have to dig it out and watch it again.
    , @Anonymous
    It was really beautiful how they did that, wasn't it? He got to live out his days working a decent job in the middle of Beijing, and got to marry a woman he truly loved. Whatever bad things the communists may have done, they got this one completely right. Respect due!
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  198. Art says:
    @FB
    Well...last night I decided to screen, again, The Last Emperor...after an absence of some years...

    A film of epic historical sweep, Bernardo Bertolucci's 1987 story of Pu Yi...who ascends to the Dragon Throne as an infant barely three years old, only to be swept along by the most tumultuous currents of perhaps any era in world history...the first half of the 20'th century...

    The film opens in 1950, with a train pulling into a station, as neatly uniformed Chinese soldiers line the platform and men in civil clothing get off the train cars...while a voice from loudspeakers continuously instructs the 'war criminals' to proceed in orderly fashion to their destination...a large hall where they are given soup...and where Pu Yi attempts to slit his wrists in an adjacent washroom...

    Their ultimate home is the Fushun Prison aka 'War Criminals Management Center'...where the prisoners are each given a notebook in which to write a detailed account of their confessions...

    Pu Yi's life story... shown in flashbacks as he reconstructs the last 42 years of his life in his prison notebook, starts with his arrival in the Forbidden City at age three...and moves fluidly through his road to adulthood and an arranged marriage to two beautiful young wives...and eventually his departure from the Forbidden City as the country descends into chaos during the 'warlord era' era of the 1920s...

    He and his coterie of wives and servants take refuge in the Japanese embassy and by 1932 he is installed as the puppet 'emperor' of Japanese-occupied Manchuria, his birthplace and the seat of the Qing Dynasty which had ruled China since 1644...

    During this time, China is split into the Japanese 'Manchukuo' and the Republic of China under the Western-supported dictator Chiang Kai-shek...

    As the puppet head of Manchukuo, Pu Yi cuts a tragicomic figure who is increasingly disrespected by his Japanese masters, even while he imagines that he is somehow manipulating them, and is on the road to restoring his 'empire' over all of China...the Japanese have no qualms about spelling out to him their imperial ambitions for Asia...that they will rule all of China, as well as India, Burma and the South Pacific, nations and races that are inferior to the Japanese...Japanese is taught in the schools of Manchukuo...

    But of course all this comes to naught as the Soviet army invades Manchuria in August 1945 and quickly rolls up the Japanese occupation forces...

    In a last minute attempt to escape, Pu Yi boards a military plane for Tokyo, but it is too late... the sky is filled with Red Army paratroopers, before the plane can even taxi out of the hangar...he is taken into custody and held in the USSR for five years, the Russians refusing to extradite him into the hands of the imperialist puppet Chiang...he is handed over only after Mao's Chinese Communists defeat the US-supported Chiang and drive his rump forces to Taiwan...

    With this backdrop of tumultuous history, the real story is one of Pu Yi finding redemption in the Fushun 're-education' camp, under the careful tutelage of the prison governor, played strongly here by Ying Ruocheng who is not only an actor, but the PRC vice minister for Culture at the time of filming...

    Pu Yi, clearly a man of weak character who has never been in control of anything in his life, has constructed for himself a fantastically naive narrative of his traitorous role in the Japanese occupation of Manchuria...a delusion that the endlessly patient governor helps Pu Yi to finally accept...setting the ill-fated emperor free, for the first time in his life...he is pardoned in 1959 and embraces his occupation as a gardener in Beijing...

    We witness a poignant scene some years later, in the 1960s, during the chaotic Cultural Revolution, where Pu Yi spots the governor being marched shamefully through the streets by angry, flag-waving young people carrying Mao's 'little red book' and chanting slogans and waving red banners...he approaches the dismissive young men and implores them that they have made an error...

    '...This is a good man, he is a teacher...you have made a mistake'
     
    As historian and former Newsweek journalist Edward Behr notes...

    '...In the eyes of Mao and other Chinese Communist leaders, Pu Yi, the last Emperor, was the epitome of all that had been evil in old Chinese society.

    If he could be shown to have undergone sincere, permanent change, what hope was there for the most diehard counter-revolutionary? The more overwhelming the guilt, the more spectacular the redemption-and the greater glory of the Chinese Communist Party...'
     
    Watching this film, one is reminded just how badly today's world needs such re-education initiatives...as more and more people live in a fantastic world of make-believe, carefully spun by a pervasive indoctrination machine making use of powerful psychological tools and media...

    At least the 'lost' emperor Pu Yi did redeem himself...as Bertolucci shows...at its core it is the story of embracing the truth to set yourself free...most in today's world will unfortunately never have this chance...

    https://s20.postimg.cc/3zq5qy51p/Qing_Dynasty_Flag.jpg

    --Qing Dynasty Flag

    https://s20.postimg.cc/adf8ucujx/Puyi_1922.jpg

    --Pu Yi in 1922...

    https://s20.postimg.cc/jxyvgv1rx/Aisin-_Gioro_Puyi_01.jpg

    --A portrait of the Emperor in 1934, from a Japanese magazine...

    https://s20.postimg.cc/argku4mf1/Soviet_Union_Military_Officer_and_Puyi.jpg

    --Pu Yi and a Soviet military officer...

    https://s20.postimg.cc/fsnyuyjfh/Fushun_War_Criminals_Mgmt_Center_2.jpg

    --Fushun war Criminals Management Center...

    https://s20.postimg.cc/3pin7s5wt/xinsrc_386eb4d70858421e9a2721f113e58da2_ying.jpg

    --Chinese actor and cultural ambassador Ying Ruocheng...

    FB — An excellent post — Thanks

    Looks like China must have an Emperor.

    The new commie guy has made himself president for life.

    Hmm — what is going to be his tragic fate?

    Think Peace — Art

    Read More
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  199. Erebus says:
    @Tyrion 2
    A beggar once approached me on the Shanghai tube. The half full carriage of only Chinese people ushered/chased him away from me. I suspect that begging in China may not be particularly lucrative.

    You don’t say when it was, but I’ve had parallel experiences.

    As for its profitability, I once stumbled on a territorial dispute between a couple of the local “beggars” at the moment of payoff. It was pulled from a bag full of cash, so there’s money to be made. Presumably, it’s a matter of location.

    Back when they commonly worked the outdoor restaurants in their territory, I was an obvious target, but had great way to get rid of them…. offer them a job. After the initial shock, they always moved along quickly, often to a chorus of snickers from the other (Chinese) patrons.

    Read More
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  200. Erebus says:
    @FB
    Well...last night I decided to screen, again, The Last Emperor...after an absence of some years...

    A film of epic historical sweep, Bernardo Bertolucci's 1987 story of Pu Yi...who ascends to the Dragon Throne as an infant barely three years old, only to be swept along by the most tumultuous currents of perhaps any era in world history...the first half of the 20'th century...

    The film opens in 1950, with a train pulling into a station, as neatly uniformed Chinese soldiers line the platform and men in civil clothing get off the train cars...while a voice from loudspeakers continuously instructs the 'war criminals' to proceed in orderly fashion to their destination...a large hall where they are given soup...and where Pu Yi attempts to slit his wrists in an adjacent washroom...

    Their ultimate home is the Fushun Prison aka 'War Criminals Management Center'...where the prisoners are each given a notebook in which to write a detailed account of their confessions...

    Pu Yi's life story... shown in flashbacks as he reconstructs the last 42 years of his life in his prison notebook, starts with his arrival in the Forbidden City at age three...and moves fluidly through his road to adulthood and an arranged marriage to two beautiful young wives...and eventually his departure from the Forbidden City as the country descends into chaos during the 'warlord era' era of the 1920s...

    He and his coterie of wives and servants take refuge in the Japanese embassy and by 1932 he is installed as the puppet 'emperor' of Japanese-occupied Manchuria, his birthplace and the seat of the Qing Dynasty which had ruled China since 1644...

    During this time, China is split into the Japanese 'Manchukuo' and the Republic of China under the Western-supported dictator Chiang Kai-shek...

    As the puppet head of Manchukuo, Pu Yi cuts a tragicomic figure who is increasingly disrespected by his Japanese masters, even while he imagines that he is somehow manipulating them, and is on the road to restoring his 'empire' over all of China...the Japanese have no qualms about spelling out to him their imperial ambitions for Asia...that they will rule all of China, as well as India, Burma and the South Pacific, nations and races that are inferior to the Japanese...Japanese is taught in the schools of Manchukuo...

    But of course all this comes to naught as the Soviet army invades Manchuria in August 1945 and quickly rolls up the Japanese occupation forces...

    In a last minute attempt to escape, Pu Yi boards a military plane for Tokyo, but it is too late... the sky is filled with Red Army paratroopers, before the plane can even taxi out of the hangar...he is taken into custody and held in the USSR for five years, the Russians refusing to extradite him into the hands of the imperialist puppet Chiang...he is handed over only after Mao's Chinese Communists defeat the US-supported Chiang and drive his rump forces to Taiwan...

    With this backdrop of tumultuous history, the real story is one of Pu Yi finding redemption in the Fushun 're-education' camp, under the careful tutelage of the prison governor, played strongly here by Ying Ruocheng who is not only an actor, but the PRC vice minister for Culture at the time of filming...

    Pu Yi, clearly a man of weak character who has never been in control of anything in his life, has constructed for himself a fantastically naive narrative of his traitorous role in the Japanese occupation of Manchuria...a delusion that the endlessly patient governor helps Pu Yi to finally accept...setting the ill-fated emperor free, for the first time in his life...he is pardoned in 1959 and embraces his occupation as a gardener in Beijing...

    We witness a poignant scene some years later, in the 1960s, during the chaotic Cultural Revolution, where Pu Yi spots the governor being marched shamefully through the streets by angry, flag-waving young people carrying Mao's 'little red book' and chanting slogans and waving red banners...he approaches the dismissive young men and implores them that they have made an error...

    '...This is a good man, he is a teacher...you have made a mistake'
     
    As historian and former Newsweek journalist Edward Behr notes...

    '...In the eyes of Mao and other Chinese Communist leaders, Pu Yi, the last Emperor, was the epitome of all that had been evil in old Chinese society.

    If he could be shown to have undergone sincere, permanent change, what hope was there for the most diehard counter-revolutionary? The more overwhelming the guilt, the more spectacular the redemption-and the greater glory of the Chinese Communist Party...'
     
    Watching this film, one is reminded just how badly today's world needs such re-education initiatives...as more and more people live in a fantastic world of make-believe, carefully spun by a pervasive indoctrination machine making use of powerful psychological tools and media...

    At least the 'lost' emperor Pu Yi did redeem himself...as Bertolucci shows...at its core it is the story of embracing the truth to set yourself free...most in today's world will unfortunately never have this chance...

    https://s20.postimg.cc/3zq5qy51p/Qing_Dynasty_Flag.jpg

    --Qing Dynasty Flag

    https://s20.postimg.cc/adf8ucujx/Puyi_1922.jpg

    --Pu Yi in 1922...

    https://s20.postimg.cc/jxyvgv1rx/Aisin-_Gioro_Puyi_01.jpg

    --A portrait of the Emperor in 1934, from a Japanese magazine...

    https://s20.postimg.cc/argku4mf1/Soviet_Union_Military_Officer_and_Puyi.jpg

    --Pu Yi and a Soviet military officer...

    https://s20.postimg.cc/fsnyuyjfh/Fushun_War_Criminals_Mgmt_Center_2.jpg

    --Fushun war Criminals Management Center...

    https://s20.postimg.cc/3pin7s5wt/xinsrc_386eb4d70858421e9a2721f113e58da2_ying.jpg

    --Chinese actor and cultural ambassador Ying Ruocheng...

    Seconding Art’s remark.
    It’s been 30(?) years since I saw that movie. Bertolucci was a master. Now I guess I’ll have to dig it out and watch it again.

    Read More
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  201. RedRobbo says:
    @Godfree Roberts
    The 'Peking University report was superseded by Facundo Alvaredo, Lucas Chancel, Thomas Piketty. Emmanuel Saez and Gabriel Zucman in their paper, GLOBAL INEQUALITY DYNAMICS, http://www.nber.org/papers/w23119. Here's the skinny:

    In the past forty years, the share of national income earned by the bottom half of Chinese workers fell from twenty-seven percent to fifteen percent while Americans’ fell from twenty percent to twelve percent.

    At the top end, China’s one percent captured thirteen percent of national income while America’s captured twenty.

    I found media responses amusing: Fortune reported that the U.S. has the fourth highest income inequality in the world but offered no solutions. The People’s Daily wrote, “In developed countries such as America–whose GINI index sometimes reaches 0.4–income disparities are eased through gradually increasing taxation on the wealthy and improving welfare systems to help the poor. China should learn from America’s experience”.

    They've learned so well that, by June 1, 2021, every Chinese–Tibetan, Uyghur or whatever–will have a home, a job, plenty of food, education, safe streets, health and old age care. 

    On that day there will be more poor, hungry and imprisoned people in America than in China.

    Was Marx psychic?

    “Was Marx psychic? ”
    No, but he’d probably approve of this:

    http://chuangcn.org/2018/03/marxconn/

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  202. denk says:
    @Art
    The Chinese would rather starve momentarily than plunder.

    The elite Chinese had no reason to plunder because the average Chinese would not revolt. They just accepted Confucian authority and their plight.

    Think Peace --- Art

    wow , peaceman, are you willfully obtuse or what ?

    Im talking about the plunder of nations, like the Opium war, the rape of India, Africa

    Exhibit Philippines,
    gawd’s army in action.

    Though the war against the Filipinos is largely forgotten or ignored in this country, it was a bloody and brutal conflict that saw American soldiers and disease kill hundreds of thousands of Filipinos. While Black men, women and children were being tortured and killed in this country, White American soldiers slaughtered the brown-skinned inhabitants of the Philippines so that American businesses could expand into the Pacific.

    We will not renounce our part in the mission of our race, trustee, under God, of the civilization of the world,” said Sen. Albert Beveridge in the U.S. Senate, speaking for the economic and political interests of this country. “Where shall we turn for consumers of our surplus? Georgraphy answers the question. China is our natural customer….The Philippines give us a base at the door of all the East.”

    ————-

    Spain, seeing the futility of trying to stop the U.S. militarily, sold all its possessions to the United States for $20 million. This also included the Philippines, with Pres. William McKinley clothing the theft in the following words: “…there was nothing left for us to do but to take them all (all of Spain’s possessions) and to educate the Filipinos, and uplift and civilize and Christianize them, and by God’s grace do the very best we could by them, as our fellow men for whom Christ also died.

    https://www.countercurrents.org/us-cox240107.htm

    OMFG,
    The hubris !

    P.S.
    As for your misdirection about Chinese sheeples ‘subservience’ to tyranny.
    ANY govn that lost its credibility would be brought down eventually,, the Yuan, the Qing, the murkkan backed ROC….

    As for your overlords…..

    Its the Jews , nuthin but the Jews

    When are you good xtians gonna do something about it ?

    Did your gawd ask you to turn the other cheek as well ?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art
    Did your gawd ask you to turn the other cheek as well ?

    Turning the other cheek is an act of defiance against evil.

    Think Peace --- Art
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  203. info says:

    Potatoes solved famines

    Read More
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  204. Anonymous[321] • Disclaimer says:
    @FB
    Well...last night I decided to screen, again, The Last Emperor...after an absence of some years...

    A film of epic historical sweep, Bernardo Bertolucci's 1987 story of Pu Yi...who ascends to the Dragon Throne as an infant barely three years old, only to be swept along by the most tumultuous currents of perhaps any era in world history...the first half of the 20'th century...

    The film opens in 1950, with a train pulling into a station, as neatly uniformed Chinese soldiers line the platform and men in civil clothing get off the train cars...while a voice from loudspeakers continuously instructs the 'war criminals' to proceed in orderly fashion to their destination...a large hall where they are given soup...and where Pu Yi attempts to slit his wrists in an adjacent washroom...

    Their ultimate home is the Fushun Prison aka 'War Criminals Management Center'...where the prisoners are each given a notebook in which to write a detailed account of their confessions...

    Pu Yi's life story... shown in flashbacks as he reconstructs the last 42 years of his life in his prison notebook, starts with his arrival in the Forbidden City at age three...and moves fluidly through his road to adulthood and an arranged marriage to two beautiful young wives...and eventually his departure from the Forbidden City as the country descends into chaos during the 'warlord era' era of the 1920s...

    He and his coterie of wives and servants take refuge in the Japanese embassy and by 1932 he is installed as the puppet 'emperor' of Japanese-occupied Manchuria, his birthplace and the seat of the Qing Dynasty which had ruled China since 1644...

    During this time, China is split into the Japanese 'Manchukuo' and the Republic of China under the Western-supported dictator Chiang Kai-shek...

    As the puppet head of Manchukuo, Pu Yi cuts a tragicomic figure who is increasingly disrespected by his Japanese masters, even while he imagines that he is somehow manipulating them, and is on the road to restoring his 'empire' over all of China...the Japanese have no qualms about spelling out to him their imperial ambitions for Asia...that they will rule all of China, as well as India, Burma and the South Pacific, nations and races that are inferior to the Japanese...Japanese is taught in the schools of Manchukuo...

    But of course all this comes to naught as the Soviet army invades Manchuria in August 1945 and quickly rolls up the Japanese occupation forces...

    In a last minute attempt to escape, Pu Yi boards a military plane for Tokyo, but it is too late... the sky is filled with Red Army paratroopers, before the plane can even taxi out of the hangar...he is taken into custody and held in the USSR for five years, the Russians refusing to extradite him into the hands of the imperialist puppet Chiang...he is handed over only after Mao's Chinese Communists defeat the US-supported Chiang and drive his rump forces to Taiwan...

    With this backdrop of tumultuous history, the real story is one of Pu Yi finding redemption in the Fushun 're-education' camp, under the careful tutelage of the prison governor, played strongly here by Ying Ruocheng who is not only an actor, but the PRC vice minister for Culture at the time of filming...

    Pu Yi, clearly a man of weak character who has never been in control of anything in his life, has constructed for himself a fantastically naive narrative of his traitorous role in the Japanese occupation of Manchuria...a delusion that the endlessly patient governor helps Pu Yi to finally accept...setting the ill-fated emperor free, for the first time in his life...he is pardoned in 1959 and embraces his occupation as a gardener in Beijing...

    We witness a poignant scene some years later, in the 1960s, during the chaotic Cultural Revolution, where Pu Yi spots the governor being marched shamefully through the streets by angry, flag-waving young people carrying Mao's 'little red book' and chanting slogans and waving red banners...he approaches the dismissive young men and implores them that they have made an error...

    '...This is a good man, he is a teacher...you have made a mistake'
     
    As historian and former Newsweek journalist Edward Behr notes...

    '...In the eyes of Mao and other Chinese Communist leaders, Pu Yi, the last Emperor, was the epitome of all that had been evil in old Chinese society.

    If he could be shown to have undergone sincere, permanent change, what hope was there for the most diehard counter-revolutionary? The more overwhelming the guilt, the more spectacular the redemption-and the greater glory of the Chinese Communist Party...'
     
    Watching this film, one is reminded just how badly today's world needs such re-education initiatives...as more and more people live in a fantastic world of make-believe, carefully spun by a pervasive indoctrination machine making use of powerful psychological tools and media...

    At least the 'lost' emperor Pu Yi did redeem himself...as Bertolucci shows...at its core it is the story of embracing the truth to set yourself free...most in today's world will unfortunately never have this chance...

    https://s20.postimg.cc/3zq5qy51p/Qing_Dynasty_Flag.jpg

    --Qing Dynasty Flag

    https://s20.postimg.cc/adf8ucujx/Puyi_1922.jpg

    --Pu Yi in 1922...

    https://s20.postimg.cc/jxyvgv1rx/Aisin-_Gioro_Puyi_01.jpg

    --A portrait of the Emperor in 1934, from a Japanese magazine...

    https://s20.postimg.cc/argku4mf1/Soviet_Union_Military_Officer_and_Puyi.jpg

    --Pu Yi and a Soviet military officer...

    https://s20.postimg.cc/fsnyuyjfh/Fushun_War_Criminals_Mgmt_Center_2.jpg

    --Fushun war Criminals Management Center...

    https://s20.postimg.cc/3pin7s5wt/xinsrc_386eb4d70858421e9a2721f113e58da2_ying.jpg

    --Chinese actor and cultural ambassador Ying Ruocheng...

    It was really beautiful how they did that, wasn’t it? He got to live out his days working a decent job in the middle of Beijing, and got to marry a woman he truly loved. Whatever bad things the communists may have done, they got this one completely right. Respect due!

    Read More
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  205. @denk

    Mao personally sent more people immediately to heaven than anyone else in history.
     
    liar

    I think we’re being trolled.
    [sic ]
    Nobody thinks China is anything else besides a miserable totalitarian excrement hole, and it will be such until the CCP is overthrown and all its leaders are sent to hell where they belong.
     
    You just run away from the asylum ?

    Communists are the scummiest scum bags who ever existed. Communists are degenerate perverts who belong in a place infinitely worse than hell for a time infinitely longer than an infinite number of infinite eternities.

    Communists give other murderers and thieves and liars and evil doers a bad name.

    Jesus Christ called communists “Nicolaitans,” and said He hated your deeds and doctrines. You can be certain that eventually He will come and destroy you forever, at the time appointed by His Father.

    It’s not too late to repent, though, probably.

    Read More
    • Replies: @denk
    the 5lies bombed Yugo on Easter Sunday.

    The Norwegians award NObel peace prize to the 5lies criminals.

    gawd has a special place in hell reserved for these people.

    hhhhh


    P.S.
    Can AI filter detects nutcase ?
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  206. denk says:
    @James Solbakken
    Communists are the scummiest scum bags who ever existed. Communists are degenerate perverts who belong in a place infinitely worse than hell for a time infinitely longer than an infinite number of infinite eternities.

    Communists give other murderers and thieves and liars and evil doers a bad name.

    Jesus Christ called communists "Nicolaitans," and said He hated your deeds and doctrines. You can be certain that eventually He will come and destroy you forever, at the time appointed by His Father.

    It's not too late to repent, though, probably.

    the 5lies bombed Yugo on Easter Sunday.

    The Norwegians award NObel peace prize to the 5lies criminals.

    gawd has a special place in hell reserved for these people.

    hhhhh

    P.S.
    Can AI filter detects nutcase ?

    Read More
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  207. Ibn Issam says:
    @Anonymous
    It's a shame most Muslims are hypocrites.

    1-Religion (freedom to practice)
     
    ... except when the religion is not Islam.

    2-Life (Sanctity of Life)
     
    Death to those who defile Islam!

    3-Intellect (uphold the power of reason, knowledge and education)
     
    Islamic reasoning is based upon a huge ever shifting corpus of a priori recordings from way back when. Scientific discovery and technology are the fruits of intellect, and the Islamic world hasn't produced anything of note for about 600 years.

    4-Property (Guarantee security of assets)
     
    Didn't work so well for the Hindus and Sikhs in Pakistan.

    5- Lineage (Importance of family/children)
     
    Now if only they could focus on quality rather than quantity!

    I'm sorry to rip on your religion, but the hypocrisy is quite odorous. Everything can be made to look good on paper, but the test is the fruit it bares.

    It is easy to rip on something that one only superficially understands in order to portray it as something else, or misportray it in order to focus only on negatives. Al-Ghazzali wrote much more in depth on the subject than I alluded to in my original comment. When people cannot find it within themselves to acknowledge anything at all positive in Islam, I find it either uninformed and misguided at best, or intentionally mendacious at worst, on their part.

    It is sad that rather than having a productive discussion, some people would rather lecture, level accusations and talk down to Muslims as if we need your guidance.

    In regard to your accusations:
    1 – Islam guarantees freedom to practice any religion to any group who are considered from the people of the book. Muslims historically have been very accommodating and have applied this title to Hindus. Zoroastrians, Buddhist, Jews, Christians and many others thus allowing them to keep their religious beliefs intact and practice freely.
    2- It is the prerogative of a people to determine what is a capital offense within the context of their own society. Lecturing Muslims from outside that context just sounds uppity and arrogant. I will admit that there have been times when the death penalty has been misused, and this is something that should be addressed, but the same holds true for the death penalty as applied in the West as well.
    3- Contrary to popular misunderstandings, Islam is not in opposition to Scientific discovery and technology. Islam encourages seeking knowledge. It’s considered an act of worship. The “fruits of intellect” are not limited to Scientific discovery and technology alone. Philosophy, Theology, Reasoning, Logic, Law, mathematics, architecture, engineering, creative artistic works, Literary poetry, prose and linguistic expressionism, the list goes on, etc. etc. . There are numerous contemporary Muslims who have excelled in these areas and more, including Muslim scientists who continue to make scientific discoveries today, and they should not be discounted.
    4- Hindu’s and Sikhs were allowed to keep their properties, including religious sites, even after Muslim rule was established.
    5- I will not bother to address your bigoted and racist remark on this point.

    Salaamtak.

    Read More
    • Replies: @James Solbakken
    "5- I will not bother to address your bigoted and racist remark on this point."

    Islam is not a race, so, why bring up racism? Because it is a communist tactic, that's why, and proves that post modern Islam has been largely conquered by communism and serves the purposes of the Marxist Globalists and is not really Islam any more.

    Sadly, the Marxist Globalists have also co-opted Christianity, and Judaism, and are trying to co-opt Hinduism and Buddhism and any and all other religions because the Marxist Globalists worship Satan and Satan wants to be worshipped by all religions and he's making a lot of progress towards that goal.

    It's all in the New Testament, in the Book of the Revelation, where it tells about the Kings of the earth and the Merchants of the earth and the religious misleaders of the earth all giving their power unto the Beast and Satan. Not many can escape being consumed by this evil tide.
    , @Anonymous
    You've got me all wrong. My understanding isn't superficial. It's real life experience that comes from spending years living and working with Muslims. Your reference to Al-Ghazzali makes me see you as an ivory tower Muslim who is oblivious to the shortcomings of the real living Islam. I will also concede that there are many positive aspects to Islam and these are to be elated. My issue is simply that most Muslims have a completely deluded view of their own religion. They actively encourage each other's delusion, and the collective delusion is keeping the Muslim world firmly in the passenger seat of human progress.

    1 – Islam guarantees freedom to practice any religion to any group who are considered from the people of the book. Muslims historically have been very accommodating and have applied this title to Hindus. Zoroastrians, Buddhist, Jews, Christians and many others thus allowing them to keep their religious beliefs intact and practice freely.
     
    Unless they were born into a Muslim family. In this case, they are property of the Ummah and their fate shall forever be decided according to Islamic law.

    What if they are true men of God who deem divine experience to be higher than scripture, and who made need to make a spiritual journey across many religious traditions before they find their true home? Islam considers itself to be the supreme religion, and does not look kindly on those who have found higher truth elsewhere.

    2- It is the prerogative of a people to determine what is a capital offense within the context of their own society.
     
    That's true. It's a cultural difference. Another important cultural difference, is that Muslims don't act according even to their own laws and can fly into a primitive violent rage if one of their very many red lines is crossed. I understand extra judicial killings are common in Pakistan.

    3- Contrary to popular misunderstandings, Islam is not in opposition to Scientific discovery and technology. Islam encourages seeking knowledge. It’s considered an act of worship.
     
    It's also considered dangerous, because it if it infringed on the customs of the Ummah, it could be considered un-Islamic. Like in all totalarian regimes, scientists must be careful about exactly which truths they reveal and exactly whose rice bowls they break.

    To be fair to Islam, Christianity used to have the same problem (ask Gallileo) but thankfully grew out of it.

    4- Hindu’s and Sikhs were allowed to keep their properties, including religious sites, even after Muslim rule was established.
     
    This didn't do them much good when >90% of them had to leave. Muslims are still living happily all over India, from North to South. How many Hindu and Sikh areas are there in Pakistan?

    5- I will not bother to address your bigoted and racist remark on this point.
     
    You're correct to call it that. It was grounded in frustration.
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  208. @Ibn Issam
    It is easy to rip on something that one only superficially understands in order to portray it as something else, or misportray it in order to focus only on negatives. Al-Ghazzali wrote much more in depth on the subject than I alluded to in my original comment. When people cannot find it within themselves to acknowledge anything at all positive in Islam, I find it either uninformed and misguided at best, or intentionally mendacious at worst, on their part.

    It is sad that rather than having a productive discussion, some people would rather lecture, level accusations and talk down to Muslims as if we need your guidance.

    In regard to your accusations:
    1 - Islam guarantees freedom to practice any religion to any group who are considered from the people of the book. Muslims historically have been very accommodating and have applied this title to Hindus. Zoroastrians, Buddhist, Jews, Christians and many others thus allowing them to keep their religious beliefs intact and practice freely.
    2- It is the prerogative of a people to determine what is a capital offense within the context of their own society. Lecturing Muslims from outside that context just sounds uppity and arrogant. I will admit that there have been times when the death penalty has been misused, and this is something that should be addressed, but the same holds true for the death penalty as applied in the West as well.
    3- Contrary to popular misunderstandings, Islam is not in opposition to Scientific discovery and technology. Islam encourages seeking knowledge. It’s considered an act of worship. The "fruits of intellect" are not limited to Scientific discovery and technology alone. Philosophy, Theology, Reasoning, Logic, Law, mathematics, architecture, engineering, creative artistic works, Literary poetry, prose and linguistic expressionism, the list goes on, etc. etc. . There are numerous contemporary Muslims who have excelled in these areas and more, including Muslim scientists who continue to make scientific discoveries today, and they should not be discounted.
    4- Hindu's and Sikhs were allowed to keep their properties, including religious sites, even after Muslim rule was established.
    5- I will not bother to address your bigoted and racist remark on this point.

    Salaamtak.

    “5- I will not bother to address your bigoted and racist remark on this point.”

    Islam is not a race, so, why bring up racism? Because it is a communist tactic, that’s why, and proves that post modern Islam has been largely conquered by communism and serves the purposes of the Marxist Globalists and is not really Islam any more.

    Sadly, the Marxist Globalists have also co-opted Christianity, and Judaism, and are trying to co-opt Hinduism and Buddhism and any and all other religions because the Marxist Globalists worship Satan and Satan wants to be worshipped by all religions and he’s making a lot of progress towards that goal.

    It’s all in the New Testament, in the Book of the Revelation, where it tells about the Kings of the earth and the Merchants of the earth and the religious misleaders of the earth all giving their power unto the Beast and Satan. Not many can escape being consumed by this evil tide.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ibn Issam
    I brought up racism because often such remarks are made out of a racist supremacist attitude or ideology. However, I admit I may have hastily assumed too much about the commenter, and I should have said "possibly racist" or not mentioned the word at all.

    In regard to Satan wanting to be worshipped by all religions, I understand and basically agree with you. Similar prophecies are found in the Hadeeth, and the Qur'an clearly and unambiguously warns us against Satan.

    You are also right that few will escape the tribulation. When those days arrive, there will come a time when one's religious affiliation will no longer be of concern, as the Truth will be made manifest, after which, man will be divided into two camps those who give their allegiance to Satan, and those who remain loyal to the supreme Divine Being (God/Allah/The Father). In that sense all of us who believe in God, will at last be united together in a righteous struggle against the forces of evil.

    In my own view, it would be best not to wait for the end of days, to unite and build alliances with all other God loving people, as well as anyone else who comes in friendship!
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  209. Art says:
    @denk
    wow , peaceman, are you willfully obtuse or what ?

    Im talking about the plunder of nations, like the Opium war, the rape of India, Africa

    Exhibit Philippines,
    gawd's army in action.

    Though the war against the Filipinos is largely forgotten or ignored in this country, it was a bloody and brutal conflict that saw American soldiers and disease kill hundreds of thousands of Filipinos. While Black men, women and children were being tortured and killed in this country, White American soldiers slaughtered the brown-skinned inhabitants of the Philippines so that American businesses could expand into the Pacific.

    We will not renounce our part in the mission of our race, trustee, under God, of the civilization of the world,” said Sen. Albert Beveridge in the U.S. Senate, speaking for the economic and political interests of this country. “Where shall we turn for consumers of our surplus? Georgraphy answers the question. China is our natural customer....The Philippines give us a base at the door of all the East.”

    -------------

    Spain, seeing the futility of trying to stop the U.S. militarily, sold all its possessions to the United States for $20 million. This also included the Philippines, with Pres. William McKinley clothing the theft in the following words: “...there was nothing left for us to do but to take them all (all of Spain’s possessions) and to educate the Filipinos, and uplift and civilize and Christianize them, and by God’s grace do the very best we could by them, as our fellow men for whom Christ also died.

    https://www.countercurrents.org/us-cox240107.htm
     
    OMFG,
    The hubris !

    P.S.
    As for your misdirection about Chinese sheeples 'subservience' to tyranny.
    ANY govn that lost its credibility would be brought down eventually,, the Yuan, the Qing, the murkkan backed ROC....

    As for your overlords.....

    Its the Jews , nuthin but the Jews
     
    When are you good xtians gonna do something about it ?

    Did your gawd ask you to turn the other cheek as well ?

    Did your gawd ask you to turn the other cheek as well ?

    Turning the other cheek is an act of defiance against evil.

    Think Peace — Art

    Read More
    • Replies: @denk

    The elite Chinese had no reason to plunder because the average Chinese would not revolt. They just accepted Confucian authority and their plight.
     
    Confucius told The Chinese, do not take it lying down.

    https://www.manufacturing.net/news/2011/08/china-orders-chemical-plant-closure-after-protests

    YOur gawd tell you to turn the other cheek and everything will be fine

    [fixed]

    OK
    Im done with this 'overly self critical Anglo culture'..............
    according to tyrion. [sic]

    Ciao

    [Dont get entangled with a grinder]

    P.S.
    This article only compare the internal policies .
    BUt you aint seen nuthin yet.
    Dont get me started on murkka's foreign policies, it's genocidal wars over three centuries would make this human rights gap looks like heaven and hell.
    China, warts and all, would looks like an angel compared to USA.
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  210. Anonymous[321] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ibn Issam
    It is easy to rip on something that one only superficially understands in order to portray it as something else, or misportray it in order to focus only on negatives. Al-Ghazzali wrote much more in depth on the subject than I alluded to in my original comment. When people cannot find it within themselves to acknowledge anything at all positive in Islam, I find it either uninformed and misguided at best, or intentionally mendacious at worst, on their part.

    It is sad that rather than having a productive discussion, some people would rather lecture, level accusations and talk down to Muslims as if we need your guidance.

    In regard to your accusations:
    1 - Islam guarantees freedom to practice any religion to any group who are considered from the people of the book. Muslims historically have been very accommodating and have applied this title to Hindus. Zoroastrians, Buddhist, Jews, Christians and many others thus allowing them to keep their religious beliefs intact and practice freely.
    2- It is the prerogative of a people to determine what is a capital offense within the context of their own society. Lecturing Muslims from outside that context just sounds uppity and arrogant. I will admit that there have been times when the death penalty has been misused, and this is something that should be addressed, but the same holds true for the death penalty as applied in the West as well.
    3- Contrary to popular misunderstandings, Islam is not in opposition to Scientific discovery and technology. Islam encourages seeking knowledge. It’s considered an act of worship. The "fruits of intellect" are not limited to Scientific discovery and technology alone. Philosophy, Theology, Reasoning, Logic, Law, mathematics, architecture, engineering, creative artistic works, Literary poetry, prose and linguistic expressionism, the list goes on, etc. etc. . There are numerous contemporary Muslims who have excelled in these areas and more, including Muslim scientists who continue to make scientific discoveries today, and they should not be discounted.
    4- Hindu's and Sikhs were allowed to keep their properties, including religious sites, even after Muslim rule was established.
    5- I will not bother to address your bigoted and racist remark on this point.

    Salaamtak.

    You’ve got me all wrong. My understanding isn’t superficial. It’s real life experience that comes from spending years living and working with Muslims. Your reference to Al-Ghazzali makes me see you as an ivory tower Muslim who is oblivious to the shortcomings of the real living Islam. I will also concede that there are many positive aspects to Islam and these are to be elated. My issue is simply that most Muslims have a completely deluded view of their own religion. They actively encourage each other’s delusion, and the collective delusion is keeping the Muslim world firmly in the passenger seat of human progress.

    1 – Islam guarantees freedom to practice any religion to any group who are considered from the people of the book. Muslims historically have been very accommodating and have applied this title to Hindus. Zoroastrians, Buddhist, Jews, Christians and many others thus allowing them to keep their religious beliefs intact and practice freely.

    Unless they were born into a Muslim family. In this case, they are property of the Ummah and their fate shall forever be decided according to Islamic law.

    What if they are true men of God who deem divine experience to be higher than scripture, and who made need to make a spiritual journey across many religious traditions before they find their true home? Islam considers itself to be the supreme religion, and does not look kindly on those who have found higher truth elsewhere.

    2- It is the prerogative of a people to determine what is a capital offense within the context of their own society.

    That’s true. It’s a cultural difference. Another important cultural difference, is that Muslims don’t act according even to their own laws and can fly into a primitive violent rage if one of their very many red lines is crossed. I understand extra judicial killings are common in Pakistan.

    3- Contrary to popular misunderstandings, Islam is not in opposition to Scientific discovery and technology. Islam encourages seeking knowledge. It’s considered an act of worship.

    It’s also considered dangerous, because it if it infringed on the customs of the Ummah, it could be considered un-Islamic. Like in all totalarian regimes, scientists must be careful about exactly which truths they reveal and exactly whose rice bowls they break.

    To be fair to Islam, Christianity used to have the same problem (ask Gallileo) but thankfully grew out of it.

    4- Hindu’s and Sikhs were allowed to keep their properties, including religious sites, even after Muslim rule was established.

    This didn’t do them much good when >90% of them had to leave. Muslims are still living happily all over India, from North to South. How many Hindu and Sikh areas are there in Pakistan?

    5- I will not bother to address your bigoted and racist remark on this point.

    You’re correct to call it that. It was grounded in frustration.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ibn Issam

    My issue is simply that most Muslims have a completely deluded view of their own religion.
     
    With due respect, your “real life experience living and working with Muslims,” does not make you an expert on Islam by far. Muslims are well aware of the various problematic issues in their own religion. It is not that Muslims are oblivious to these issues, but rather that they are constantly trying to explain and counter the delusions in non-Muslim misunderstandings about Islam. If someone is aggressively criticizing and attacking Islam, and painting it as irredeemably evil, how do you think we will respond? Instead of initially acknowledging the good in Islam, people often jump straight into tearing Islam apart, and then wonder why Muslims act so defensive and only respond with the counter points.

    1 – Islam guarantees freedom to practice any religion to any group who are considered from the people of the book. Muslims historically have been very accommodating and have applied this title to Hindus. Zoroastrians, Buddhist, Jews, Christians and many others thus allowing them to keep their religious beliefs intact and practice freely.

    Unless they were born into a Muslim family. In this case, they are property of the Ummah and their fate shall forever be decided according to Islamic law.
    What if they are true men of God who deem divine experience to be higher than scripture, and who made need to make a spiritual journey across many religious traditions before they find their true home? Islam considers itself to be the supreme religion, and does not look kindly on those who have found higher truth elsewhere.
     
    This makes me think that your knowledge about Islam comes from reading Anti-Muslim websites etc. and not from “real life” experiences. Just like anyone else, Muslims can change religions if they want, I personally know ex-Muslims who have done this, and there were no repercussions. Of course it is not preferred, and their families were not happy about it, but that is to be expected. The Qur’an actually the only religious book in the world which encourages us to explore other religious traditions and learn about other people and cultures and the Qur’an is confident that we will find that Islam is the best path to choose.

    2- It is the prerogative of a people to determine what is a capital offense within the context of their own society.
    That’s true. It’s a cultural difference. Another important cultural difference, is that Muslims don’t act according even to their own laws and can fly into a primitive violent rage if one of their very many red lines is crossed. I understand extra judicial killings are common in Pakistan.
     
    It is not my responsibility to defend those who violate the Law, and I do not defend extra judicial killings. This is a problem and I am aware that even the Pakistani legal authorities are trying to address this issue. By the way, I can relate many times in my own life when I witnessed, on various occasions, Non-Muslims (American/Christian/Atheist/Hindu/Jew/ etc.) flying into a “primitive violent rage if one of their very many red lines is crossed.” No one condones it, but sometimes people lose their self in rage, why blame everything on Islam? People are People.

    3- Contrary to popular misunderstandings, Islam is not in opposition to Scientific discovery and technology. Islam encourages seeking knowledge. It’s considered an act of worship.
    It’s also considered dangerous, because it if it infringed on the customs of the Ummah, it could be considered un-Islamic. Like in all totalarian regimes, scientists must be careful about exactly which truths they reveal and exactly whose rice bowls they break.
    To be fair to Islam, Christianity used to have the same problem (ask Gallileo) but thankfully grew out of it.
     
    Yes, Islam sets boundaries which are intended to be for the benefit of the society as a whole. Comparing Islam to totalitarianism is a tired out and inaccurate Islamophobic meme. The boundaries that Islam sets are a general guidance, and the society can determine what works best at the current time and situation within the framework of those boundaries, through a system of consultation (shura), and consensus (Ijma), which also form the basis for Islamic democracy. Likewise, the society can determine what limits to impose (or not) on Scientific discovery and that is the prerogative of any society, for instance in both the east and west there are moral issues surrounding stem cells, and DNA cloning.

    4- Hindu’s and Sikhs were allowed to keep their properties, including religious sites, even after Muslim rule was established.
    This didn’t do them much good when >90% of them had to leave. Muslims are still living happily all over India, from North to South. How many Hindu and Sikh areas are there in Pakistan?
     
    Not sure where you got the >90% figure, especially when today we see that 80% of the population in India is Hindu, comprising almost a billion people. Pakistan is home to 20,000 Sikhs, while I am sure most Sikhs prefer to live in Indian state of Gujarat as that is where the Golden Shrine of Amritsar is located. At the same time, Hindu’s likely prefer to live in Hindu governed India rather than Pakistan. It should not be forgotten that Hindu and Muslim were living together in peace for the most part for centuries before the partition of India and Pakistan due to misguided British colonialist policies and many of the problems we see today stem from that ill-conceived decision.

    5- I will not bother to address your bigoted and racist remark on this point.
    You’re correct to call it that. It was grounded in frustration.

    Thanks for acknowledging, and I hope I have not offended you with any of my remarks.

    Salaam.
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  211. denk says:
    @Art
    Did your gawd ask you to turn the other cheek as well ?

    Turning the other cheek is an act of defiance against evil.

    Think Peace --- Art

    The elite Chinese had no reason to plunder because the average Chinese would not revolt. They just accepted Confucian authority and their plight.

    Confucius told The Chinese, do not take it lying down.

    https://www.manufacturing.net/news/2011/08/china-orders-chemical-plant-closure-after-protests

    YOur gawd tell you to turn the other cheek and everything will be fine

    [fixed]

    OK
    Im done with this ‘overly self critical Anglo culture’…………..
    according to tyrion. [sic]

    Ciao

    [Dont get entangled with a grinder]

    P.S.
    This article only compare the internal policies .
    BUt you aint seen nuthin yet.
    Dont get me started on murkka’s foreign policies, it’s genocidal wars over three centuries would make this human rights gap looks like heaven and hell.
    China, warts and all, would looks like an angel compared to USA.

    Read More
    • Replies: @denk
    hmmm...

    gawd tells Art the xtian,
    Just turn your cheek and everything'd be fine.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/dan-kovalik/a-problem-from-hell-the-u_b_8090782.html

    Kosovo, Libya, Fallujah, Raqqa, Yemen and....
    Iran ???
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  212. denk says:
    @denk

    The elite Chinese had no reason to plunder because the average Chinese would not revolt. They just accepted Confucian authority and their plight.
     
    Confucius told The Chinese, do not take it lying down.

    https://www.manufacturing.net/news/2011/08/china-orders-chemical-plant-closure-after-protests

    YOur gawd tell you to turn the other cheek and everything will be fine

    [fixed]

    OK
    Im done with this 'overly self critical Anglo culture'..............
    according to tyrion. [sic]

    Ciao

    [Dont get entangled with a grinder]

    P.S.
    This article only compare the internal policies .
    BUt you aint seen nuthin yet.
    Dont get me started on murkka's foreign policies, it's genocidal wars over three centuries would make this human rights gap looks like heaven and hell.
    China, warts and all, would looks like an angel compared to USA.

    hmmm…

    gawd tells Art the xtian,
    Just turn your cheek and everything’d be fine.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/dan-kovalik/a-problem-from-hell-the-u_b_8090782.html

    Kosovo, Libya, Fallujah, Raqqa, Yemen and….
    Iran ???

    Read More
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  213. APilgrim says:

    Christian heartland opens window into fight for China’s soul, BY YANAN WANG, NANYANG, CHINA, Associated Press, NATION & WORLD, August 07, 2018 06:45 AM, Updated August 07, 2018 12:51 PM, https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/article216218255.html

    Under President Xi Jinping, China’s most powerful leader since Mao Zedong, believers are seeing their freedoms shrink dramatically even as the country undergoes a religious revival. Experts and activists say that as he consolidates his power, Xi is waging the most severe systematic suppression of Christianity in the country since religious freedom was written into the Chinese constitution in 1982.

    Read More
    • Replies: @DB Cooper
    Christians like to feel being suppressed. This narrative traced back to the Roman times and this sense of victimhood empowers them. Derivatives of Christianity like Mormons for example all milk this victimhood as part of their sob stories. If Xi is really waging the most severe systematic suppression of Christianity then Xi is just doing these Christians huge favor. These Christians should thank him, otherwise they will be so bored.
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  214. APilgrim says:

    For those who are interested, in this sort of thing.

    ‘Muslim Minorities Held for Months in Unlawful Facilities’, New York, September 10, 2017 9:00PM EDT, https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/09/10/china-free-xinjiang-political-education-detainees

    Xinjiang, in northwestern China, is home to 10 million Uyghurs and other predominantly Muslim ethnic minorities. The Chinese government has imposed pervasive discrimination, repression, and restrictions on fundamental human rights, including freedom of religion.

    Read More
    • Replies: @DB Cooper
    I know you don't know it but religious piety does not exist in Chinese culture. Someone has commented on the profanity of Chinese culture, basically apart from a few things nothing is sacred in the eyes of the Chinese. And this include religion. If you are observant you will notice that Chinese (and other East Asians such as Korean, Japanese, Vietnamese, Thais...etc. ) are religiously promiscuously, for lack of a better word. A Chinese can walk into a Buddhist temple and pray on one day and go to a Daoist temple and pray the other day and this is absolutely normal behavior. Chinese see religion in transactional terms instead of in moral terms like in the West. As far as religion goes the Chinese practice free love. Nothing can be freer than that.

    Chinese should actually lecture to the West to be not so uptight on religion. Uptightness lead to tensions and religious wars. Have you ever wonder why there is no religious war in China?

    , @Godfree Roberts
    Like WMDs hidden in pre-war Iraq, Uyghur detention centers are also carefully concealed.

    Have you seen how Muslims are policed, persecuted and harassed in the US? Imagine what would happen if some of them–trained and funded by China–had massacred 120 Bostonians at a commuter station one morning, as happened in China. You cannot underestimate the impact of extreme religious thought.

    China's de-radicalization campaign is stringent, but it works. Europe's methods are less effective, but it is a common challenge faced by all and it is time to set aside conflicts over different values to prevent radicalism from globalizing.
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  215. APilgrim says:

    China fires SIX WARNINGS to US Navy in South China Sea ‘This is China…LEAVE IMMEDIATELY’, By ALAHNA KINDRED, PUBLISHED: 10:19, Fri, Aug 10, 2018 | UPDATED: 14:46, Fri, Aug 10, 2018, https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1001656/China-US-latest-WW3-fears-South-China-Sea-US-Navy

    THE Chinese military told a US Navy plane flying over the highly-disputed island in the South China Sea to “leave immediately”.

    Each time the aircraft was challenged by the Chinese military, the US Navy crew’s response was the same. The response was: “I am a sovereign immune United States naval aircraft conducting lawful military activities beyond the national airspace of any coastal state. “In exercising these rights as guaranteed by international law, I am operating with due regard for the rights and duties of all states.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @denk

    “I am a sovereign immune United States naval aircraft conducting lawful military activities beyond the national airspace of any coastal state
     
    [I m a privatised fire fighters......[er, professional arsonist]
    no fire, no money.

    Its my job to pour oil on fire , or to start a fire if there;s none.
    how else do you expect a man to make a living if there's no fire ?]

    Fixed


    P.S.
    How many supreme international crimes have fukus committed since ww2 ?
    Whats China's score. ?

    did warn you dont get me started on murkkan foreign policies, you'r just asking for it.

    hhhh
    , @denk

    I am a sovereign immune United States naval aircraft conducting lawful military activities beyond the national airspace of any coastal state
     
    [the Chinese, objecting to our spy planes on their coast, do not recognize that our planes themselves are "sovereign" territory, while the Chinese mainland has a more dubious status. They must accept the fact that Uncle Chutzpah has long done this kind of spying and will continue to do it to advance our "national security," until they can pose a credible military response to Uncle's intrusions.

    http://web.archive.org/web/20070807055239/http://www.zmag.org/ZSustainers/ZDaily/2001-04/09herman.htm
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  216. DB Cooper says:
    @APilgrim
    Christian heartland opens window into fight for China’s soul, BY YANAN WANG, NANYANG, CHINA, Associated Press, NATION & WORLD, August 07, 2018 06:45 AM, Updated August 07, 2018 12:51 PM, https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/article216218255.html

    Under President Xi Jinping, China’s most powerful leader since Mao Zedong, believers are seeing their freedoms shrink dramatically even as the country undergoes a religious revival. Experts and activists say that as he consolidates his power, Xi is waging the most severe systematic suppression of Christianity in the country since religious freedom was written into the Chinese constitution in 1982.

    Christians like to feel being suppressed. This narrative traced back to the Roman times and this sense of victimhood empowers them. Derivatives of Christianity like Mormons for example all milk this victimhood as part of their sob stories. If Xi is really waging the most severe systematic suppression of Christianity then Xi is just doing these Christians huge favor. These Christians should thank him, otherwise they will be so bored.

    Read More
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  217. DB Cooper says:
    @APilgrim
    For those who are interested, in this sort of thing.

    ‘Muslim Minorities Held for Months in Unlawful Facilities’, New York, September 10, 2017 9:00PM EDT, https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/09/10/china-free-xinjiang-political-education-detainees

    Xinjiang, in northwestern China, is home to 10 million Uyghurs and other predominantly Muslim ethnic minorities. The Chinese government has imposed pervasive discrimination, repression, and restrictions on fundamental human rights, including freedom of religion.

    I know you don’t know it but religious piety does not exist in Chinese culture. Someone has commented on the profanity of Chinese culture, basically apart from a few things nothing is sacred in the eyes of the Chinese. And this include religion. If you are observant you will notice that Chinese (and other East Asians such as Korean, Japanese, Vietnamese, Thais…etc. ) are religiously promiscuously, for lack of a better word. A Chinese can walk into a Buddhist temple and pray on one day and go to a Daoist temple and pray the other day and this is absolutely normal behavior. Chinese see religion in transactional terms instead of in moral terms like in the West. As far as religion goes the Chinese practice free love. Nothing can be freer than that.

    Chinese should actually lecture to the West to be not so uptight on religion. Uptightness lead to tensions and religious wars. Have you ever wonder why there is no religious war in China?

    Read More
    • Replies: @denk
    pilgrim must be another one of those 'overly self critical anglo' as per tyrion.

    Trouble is, this specie keep barking up the wrong tree......
    Who's the world champion in butchering Muslims civilians ?


    hhhhh
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  218. Anonymous[321] • Disclaimer says:

    Chinese can walk into a Buddhist temple and pray on one day and go to a Daoist temple and pray the other day and this is absolutely normal behavior. Chinese see religion in transactional terms instead of in moral terms like in the West. As far as religion goes the Chinese practice free love. Nothing can be freer than that.

    Chinese ‘buddhism’ in my experience is nothing like the ‘purer’ Buddhism I came across in the West, or in Thailand. In my experience, they worship a whole pantheon of gods and I’m not sure exactly why it’s called buddhism at all. In this light, the difference between Chinese Taoism and Chinese Buddhism is very minor.

    Another interesting anecdote is that I’ve met buddhist and taoist Chinese who have converted to Christianity. Both conversions were met with opposition by their family, who, in the first case, didn’t understand what this Jesus thing was all about and, in the second case, were afraid that if their daughter became Christian then she would stop ancestor worship and thus no one would do prayers for them after they died.

    I feel most comfortable with the understanding that Chinese do indeed have quite a strictly defined and long running spiritual tradition but one that can change it clothes and adopt the outward appearance of another religion.

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  219. Ibn Issam says:
    @James Solbakken
    "5- I will not bother to address your bigoted and racist remark on this point."

    Islam is not a race, so, why bring up racism? Because it is a communist tactic, that's why, and proves that post modern Islam has been largely conquered by communism and serves the purposes of the Marxist Globalists and is not really Islam any more.

    Sadly, the Marxist Globalists have also co-opted Christianity, and Judaism, and are trying to co-opt Hinduism and Buddhism and any and all other religions because the Marxist Globalists worship Satan and Satan wants to be worshipped by all religions and he's making a lot of progress towards that goal.

    It's all in the New Testament, in the Book of the Revelation, where it tells about the Kings of the earth and the Merchants of the earth and the religious misleaders of the earth all giving their power unto the Beast and Satan. Not many can escape being consumed by this evil tide.

    I brought up racism because often such remarks are made out of a racist supremacist attitude or ideology. However, I admit I may have hastily assumed too much about the commenter, and I should have said “possibly racist” or not mentioned the word at all.

    In regard to Satan wanting to be worshipped by all religions, I understand and basically agree with you. Similar prophecies are found in the Hadeeth, and the Qur’an clearly and unambiguously warns us against Satan.

    You are also right that few will escape the tribulation. When those days arrive, there will come a time when one’s religious affiliation will no longer be of concern, as the Truth will be made manifest, after which, man will be divided into two camps those who give their allegiance to Satan, and those who remain loyal to the supreme Divine Being (God/Allah/The Father). In that sense all of us who believe in God, will at last be united together in a righteous struggle against the forces of evil.

    In my own view, it would be best not to wait for the end of days, to unite and build alliances with all other God loving people, as well as anyone else who comes in friendship!

    Read More
    • Replies: @James Solbakken
    " to unite and build alliances with all other God loving people, as well as anyone else who comes in friendship! "

    Romans 12 tells me this:

    17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.
    18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

    I'm willing to bend over backward to live in peace with all men, but, I draw the line at bending over forward, if you understand my metaphor.
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  220. Ibn Issam says:
    @Anonymous
    You've got me all wrong. My understanding isn't superficial. It's real life experience that comes from spending years living and working with Muslims. Your reference to Al-Ghazzali makes me see you as an ivory tower Muslim who is oblivious to the shortcomings of the real living Islam. I will also concede that there are many positive aspects to Islam and these are to be elated. My issue is simply that most Muslims have a completely deluded view of their own religion. They actively encourage each other's delusion, and the collective delusion is keeping the Muslim world firmly in the passenger seat of human progress.

    1 – Islam guarantees freedom to practice any religion to any group who are considered from the people of the book. Muslims historically have been very accommodating and have applied this title to Hindus. Zoroastrians, Buddhist, Jews, Christians and many others thus allowing them to keep their religious beliefs intact and practice freely.
     
    Unless they were born into a Muslim family. In this case, they are property of the Ummah and their fate shall forever be decided according to Islamic law.

    What if they are true men of God who deem divine experience to be higher than scripture, and who made need to make a spiritual journey across many religious traditions before they find their true home? Islam considers itself to be the supreme religion, and does not look kindly on those who have found higher truth elsewhere.

    2- It is the prerogative of a people to determine what is a capital offense within the context of their own society.
     
    That's true. It's a cultural difference. Another important cultural difference, is that Muslims don't act according even to their own laws and can fly into a primitive violent rage if one of their very many red lines is crossed. I understand extra judicial killings are common in Pakistan.

    3- Contrary to popular misunderstandings, Islam is not in opposition to Scientific discovery and technology. Islam encourages seeking knowledge. It’s considered an act of worship.
     
    It's also considered dangerous, because it if it infringed on the customs of the Ummah, it could be considered un-Islamic. Like in all totalarian regimes, scientists must be careful about exactly which truths they reveal and exactly whose rice bowls they break.

    To be fair to Islam, Christianity used to have the same problem (ask Gallileo) but thankfully grew out of it.

    4- Hindu’s and Sikhs were allowed to keep their properties, including religious sites, even after Muslim rule was established.
     
    This didn't do them much good when >90% of them had to leave. Muslims are still living happily all over India, from North to South. How many Hindu and Sikh areas are there in Pakistan?

    5- I will not bother to address your bigoted and racist remark on this point.
     
    You're correct to call it that. It was grounded in frustration.

    My issue is simply that most Muslims have a completely deluded view of their own religion.

    With due respect, your “real life experience living and working with Muslims,” does not make you an expert on Islam by far. Muslims are well aware of the various problematic issues in their own religion. It is not that Muslims are oblivious to these issues, but rather that they are constantly trying to explain and counter the delusions in non-Muslim misunderstandings about Islam. If someone is aggressively criticizing and attacking Islam, and painting it as irredeemably evil, how do you think we will respond? Instead of initially acknowledging the good in Islam, people often jump straight into tearing Islam apart, and then wonder why Muslims act so defensive and only respond with the counter points.

    1 – Islam guarantees freedom to practice any religion to any group who are considered from the people of the book. Muslims historically have been very accommodating and have applied this title to Hindus. Zoroastrians, Buddhist, Jews, Christians and many others thus allowing them to keep their religious beliefs intact and practice freely.

    Unless they were born into a Muslim family. In this case, they are property of the Ummah and their fate shall forever be decided according to Islamic law.
    What if they are true men of God who deem divine experience to be higher than scripture, and who made need to make a spiritual journey across many religious traditions before they find their true home? Islam considers itself to be the supreme religion, and does not look kindly on those who have found higher truth elsewhere.

    This makes me think that your knowledge about Islam comes from reading Anti-Muslim websites etc. and not from “real life” experiences. Just like anyone else, Muslims can change religions if they want, I personally know ex-Muslims who have done this, and there were no repercussions. Of course it is not preferred, and their families were not happy about it, but that is to be expected. The Qur’an actually the only religious book in the world which encourages us to explore other religious traditions and learn about other people and cultures and the Qur’an is confident that we will find that Islam is the best path to choose.

    2- It is the prerogative of a people to determine what is a capital offense within the context of their own society.
    That’s true. It’s a cultural difference. Another important cultural difference, is that Muslims don’t act according even to their own laws and can fly into a primitive violent rage if one of their very many red lines is crossed. I understand extra judicial killings are common in Pakistan.

    It is not my responsibility to defend those who violate the Law, and I do not defend extra judicial killings. This is a problem and I am aware that even the Pakistani legal authorities are trying to address this issue. By the way, I can relate many times in my own life when I witnessed, on various occasions, Non-Muslims (American/Christian/Atheist/Hindu/Jew/ etc.) flying into a “primitive violent rage if one of their very many red lines is crossed.” No one condones it, but sometimes people lose their self in rage, why blame everything on Islam? People are People.

    3- Contrary to popular misunderstandings, Islam is not in opposition to Scientific discovery and technology. Islam encourages seeking knowledge. It’s considered an act of worship.
    It’s also considered dangerous, because it if it infringed on the customs of the Ummah, it could be considered un-Islamic. Like in all totalarian regimes, scientists must be careful about exactly which truths they reveal and exactly whose rice bowls they break.
    To be fair to Islam, Christianity used to have the same problem (ask Gallileo) but thankfully grew out of it.

    Yes, Islam sets boundaries which are intended to be for the benefit of the society as a whole. Comparing Islam to totalitarianism is a tired out and inaccurate Islamophobic meme. The boundaries that Islam sets are a general guidance, and the society can determine what works best at the current time and situation within the framework of those boundaries, through a system of consultation (shura), and consensus (Ijma), which also form the basis for Islamic democracy. Likewise, the society can determine what limits to impose (or not) on Scientific discovery and that is the prerogative of any society, for instance in both the east and west there are moral issues surrounding stem cells, and DNA cloning.

    4- Hindu’s and Sikhs were allowed to keep their properties, including religious sites, even after Muslim rule was established.
    This didn’t do them much good when >90% of them had to leave. Muslims are still living happily all over India, from North to South. How many Hindu and Sikh areas are there in Pakistan?

    Not sure where you got the >90% figure, especially when today we see that 80% of the population in India is Hindu, comprising almost a billion people. Pakistan is home to 20,000 Sikhs, while I am sure most Sikhs prefer to live in Indian state of Gujarat as that is where the Golden Shrine of Amritsar is located. At the same time, Hindu’s likely prefer to live in Hindu governed India rather than Pakistan. It should not be forgotten that Hindu and Muslim were living together in peace for the most part for centuries before the partition of India and Pakistan due to misguided British colonialist policies and many of the problems we see today stem from that ill-conceived decision.

    5- I will not bother to address your bigoted and racist remark on this point.
    You’re correct to call it that. It was grounded in frustration.

    Thanks for acknowledging, and I hope I have not offended you with any of my remarks.

    Salaam.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous

    With due respect, your “real life experience living and working with Muslims,” does not make you an expert on Islam by far.
     
    and my point is that neither does reading books! Islam is a living breathing tribe/nation that is governed more by custom than by ideal. I can actually have a more accurate view of Islam than many Muslims, simply because their heads are full of ideals and stop them seeing the actual state of affairs.

    It is not that Muslims are oblivious to these issues, but rather that they are constantly trying to explain and counter the delusions in non-Muslim misunderstandings about Islam.
     
    In my experience, Muslims often are oblivious to the issues I raise. To take one example, they think their lack of economic power is due to 'Gods will' rather than their own mental shortcomings.

    It's funny. I have friends who are Muslim and also a friend who is a Hare Krsna. Both their faiths actively encourage rose tinted vision, and so both their faiths are equally blind to their own shortcomings. It is certainly not unique to Islam!

    By the way, I can relate many times in my own life when I witnessed, on various occasions, Non-Muslims (American/Christian/Atheist/Hindu/Jew/ etc.) flying into a “primitive violent rage if one of their very many red lines is crossed.” No one condones it, but sometimes people lose their self in rage, why blame everything on Islam? People are People.
     
    This is true. It's what happens when someone's bubble is suddenly popped. The bigger the bubble, the bigger the rage. Atheists generally have small bubbles and hence get mildly irate. Muslims generally have big bubbles, hence can go absolutely psychotic.

    Not sure where you got the >90% figure, especially when today we see that 80% of the population in India is Hindu, comprising almost a billion people. Pakistan is home to 20,000 Sikhs, while I am sure most Sikhs prefer to live in Indian state of Gujarat as that is where the Golden Shrine of Amritsar is located.
     
    See the article here http://www.indiaofthepast.org/contribute-memories/read-contributions/life-back-then/355-hindus-sikhs-and-muslims-in-pre-1947-lahore

    There were 300,000 Hindus and Sikhs living in Lahore as Independence approached. By August 19, 1947, that number had sunk to 10,000, and by the end of the month to just 1,000. The majority moved to India.

    Present day numbers for Sikhs in Pakistan are apparently 6k-20k. Pre-partition numbers were at least a few million, so that's actually way more than 90% disappearance rate.

    It's not about where people prefer to live, it's about where they can safely live. A Muslim friend of mine went to Tamil Nadu recently and, deliberately to test for discrimination, he wore his prayer cap. He found no discrimination at all towards himself or to any Muslims living there (and conversely lots of discrimination towards lower caste Hindus). If a Hindu had tried that in Pakistan, I think the situation may be different.

    Also, it's not the Gujarat - its the Punjab. The Gujarat is to the South where every second family is called Patel, while the Punjab is to the North where they like to run around shouting 'balle! balle!"

    Thanks for acknowledging, and I hope I have not offended you with any of my remarks.
     
    Not at all. Thank you.
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  221. Lee says:

    Thanks for a nice reasoned article that cuts through US government human rights distortion. We can specify the gap(s) quite precisely in comprehensive terms. All the work is done for you already.

    https://www.ohchr.org/EN/Issues/Indicators/Pages/HRIndicatorsIndex.aspx

    The first map shows each government’s commitments to core human rights, the minimal standards of the civilized world. By this criterion, the US government is at the bottom of the barrel, having made only 5 binding commitments. That’s about the level of Myanmar, Malaysia, and South Sudan. China has made eight commitments, better but not much.

    The second map shows whether the government lets you appeal its actions to independent international human rights experts. The US government forbids you any recourse to the outside world. So does China. Here both countries are in the cellar, down in the bottom ten per cent with North Korea, Iran, and some other cats and dogs.

    The third map is for reporting compliance. In the cases where the government has made a commitment, does it report as agreed in good faith? In this respect the US is mediocre — in the middle of the pack, trailing Russia, China, Saudi Arabia, and Turkey, but more dutiful than North Korea or Iran. But the grading here is quite indulgent. In reporting to the Committee Against Torture, the US government turned in its homework five years late while CIA was running their secret gulag of “black site” death camps.

    The fourth map is pass/fail, and the US and China both fail. Both governments have failed to issue standing invitations to UN human rights experts reviewing compliance in-country.

    The fifth map shows whether the governments meet the world standard for institutionalized human rights under independent expert supervision. Here again both China and the US are floundering in the bottom tier, the international equivalent of Animal House. Even Myanmar can do better than that.

    You can characterize the two countries by digging into specific issues and urgent ‘follow-on’ derelictions.

    https://www.ohchr.org/EN/Countries/AsiaRegion/Pages/CNIndex.aspx

    https://www.ohchr.org/EN/Countries/LACRegion/Pages/USIndex.aspx

    However, since China has committed to respect your economic rights and the US holds them in contempt, there’s no US assessment for comparison. There’s some high-level information about that in the US UPRs:

    https://www.upr-info.org/database/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
    Wonderful links! A thousand thanks.
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  222. @Ibn Issam
    I brought up racism because often such remarks are made out of a racist supremacist attitude or ideology. However, I admit I may have hastily assumed too much about the commenter, and I should have said "possibly racist" or not mentioned the word at all.

    In regard to Satan wanting to be worshipped by all religions, I understand and basically agree with you. Similar prophecies are found in the Hadeeth, and the Qur'an clearly and unambiguously warns us against Satan.

    You are also right that few will escape the tribulation. When those days arrive, there will come a time when one's religious affiliation will no longer be of concern, as the Truth will be made manifest, after which, man will be divided into two camps those who give their allegiance to Satan, and those who remain loyal to the supreme Divine Being (God/Allah/The Father). In that sense all of us who believe in God, will at last be united together in a righteous struggle against the forces of evil.

    In my own view, it would be best not to wait for the end of days, to unite and build alliances with all other God loving people, as well as anyone else who comes in friendship!

    ” to unite and build alliances with all other God loving people, as well as anyone else who comes in friendship! ”

    Romans 12 tells me this:

    17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.
    18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

    I’m willing to bend over backward to live in peace with all men, but, I draw the line at bending over forward, if you understand my metaphor.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ibn Issam

    I’m willing to bend over backward to live in peace with all men, but, I draw the line at bending over forward, if you understand my metaphor
     
    .

    Yes, I understand and agree with you. I also imagine that many Muslims who have been victimized and thrown over the barrel by ongoing western intervention and militarism in their own countries must by now hold the same sentiment that your metaphor implies. We must understand that the goodness, respect, justice, fairness, etc. that we wish for ourselves, others also wish for themselves.
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  223. denk says:
    @DB Cooper
    I know you don't know it but religious piety does not exist in Chinese culture. Someone has commented on the profanity of Chinese culture, basically apart from a few things nothing is sacred in the eyes of the Chinese. And this include religion. If you are observant you will notice that Chinese (and other East Asians such as Korean, Japanese, Vietnamese, Thais...etc. ) are religiously promiscuously, for lack of a better word. A Chinese can walk into a Buddhist temple and pray on one day and go to a Daoist temple and pray the other day and this is absolutely normal behavior. Chinese see religion in transactional terms instead of in moral terms like in the West. As far as religion goes the Chinese practice free love. Nothing can be freer than that.

    Chinese should actually lecture to the West to be not so uptight on religion. Uptightness lead to tensions and religious wars. Have you ever wonder why there is no religious war in China?

    pilgrim must be another one of those ‘overly self critical anglo‘ as per tyrion.

    Trouble is, this specie keep barking up the wrong tree……
    Who’s the world champion in butchering Muslims civilians ?

    hhhhh

    Read More
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  224. denk says:
    @APilgrim
    China fires SIX WARNINGS to US Navy in South China Sea ‘This is China...LEAVE IMMEDIATELY’, By ALAHNA KINDRED, PUBLISHED: 10:19, Fri, Aug 10, 2018 | UPDATED: 14:46, Fri, Aug 10, 2018, https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1001656/China-US-latest-WW3-fears-South-China-Sea-US-Navy

    THE Chinese military told a US Navy plane flying over the highly-disputed island in the South China Sea to “leave immediately”.

    Each time the aircraft was challenged by the Chinese military, the US Navy crew's response was the same. The response was: "I am a sovereign immune United States naval aircraft conducting lawful military activities beyond the national airspace of any coastal state. "In exercising these rights as guaranteed by international law, I am operating with due regard for the rights and duties of all states."

    “I am a sovereign immune United States naval aircraft conducting lawful military activities beyond the national airspace of any coastal state

    [I m a privatised fire fighters......[er, professional arsonist]
    no fire, no money.

    Its my job to pour oil on fire , or to start a fire if there;s none.
    how else do you expect a man to make a living if there’s no fire ?]

    Fixed

    P.S.
    How many supreme international crimes have fukus committed since ww2 ?
    Whats China’s score. ?

    did warn you dont get me started on murkkan foreign policies, you’r just asking for it.

    hhhh

    Read More
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  225. Ibn Issam says:
    @James Solbakken
    " to unite and build alliances with all other God loving people, as well as anyone else who comes in friendship! "

    Romans 12 tells me this:

    17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.
    18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

    I'm willing to bend over backward to live in peace with all men, but, I draw the line at bending over forward, if you understand my metaphor.

    I’m willing to bend over backward to live in peace with all men, but, I draw the line at bending over forward, if you understand my metaphor

    .

    Yes, I understand and agree with you. I also imagine that many Muslims who have been victimized and thrown over the barrel by ongoing western intervention and militarism in their own countries must by now hold the same sentiment that your metaphor implies. We must understand that the goodness, respect, justice, fairness, etc. that we wish for ourselves, others also wish for themselves.

    Read More
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  226. denk says:
    @APilgrim
    China fires SIX WARNINGS to US Navy in South China Sea ‘This is China...LEAVE IMMEDIATELY’, By ALAHNA KINDRED, PUBLISHED: 10:19, Fri, Aug 10, 2018 | UPDATED: 14:46, Fri, Aug 10, 2018, https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1001656/China-US-latest-WW3-fears-South-China-Sea-US-Navy

    THE Chinese military told a US Navy plane flying over the highly-disputed island in the South China Sea to “leave immediately”.

    Each time the aircraft was challenged by the Chinese military, the US Navy crew's response was the same. The response was: "I am a sovereign immune United States naval aircraft conducting lawful military activities beyond the national airspace of any coastal state. "In exercising these rights as guaranteed by international law, I am operating with due regard for the rights and duties of all states."

    I am a sovereign immune United States naval aircraft conducting lawful military activities beyond the national airspace of any coastal state

    [the Chinese, objecting to our spy planes on their coast, do not recognize that our planes themselves are “sovereign” territory, while the Chinese mainland has a more dubious status. They must accept the fact that Uncle Chutzpah has long done this kind of spying and will continue to do it to advance our “national security,” until they can pose a credible military response to Uncle’s intrusions.

    http://web.archive.org/web/20070807055239/http://www.zmag.org/ZSustainers/ZDaily/2001-04/09herman.htm

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  227. Anonymous[321] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ibn Issam

    My issue is simply that most Muslims have a completely deluded view of their own religion.
     
    With due respect, your “real life experience living and working with Muslims,” does not make you an expert on Islam by far. Muslims are well aware of the various problematic issues in their own religion. It is not that Muslims are oblivious to these issues, but rather that they are constantly trying to explain and counter the delusions in non-Muslim misunderstandings about Islam. If someone is aggressively criticizing and attacking Islam, and painting it as irredeemably evil, how do you think we will respond? Instead of initially acknowledging the good in Islam, people often jump straight into tearing Islam apart, and then wonder why Muslims act so defensive and only respond with the counter points.

    1 – Islam guarantees freedom to practice any religion to any group who are considered from the people of the book. Muslims historically have been very accommodating and have applied this title to Hindus. Zoroastrians, Buddhist, Jews, Christians and many others thus allowing them to keep their religious beliefs intact and practice freely.

    Unless they were born into a Muslim family. In this case, they are property of the Ummah and their fate shall forever be decided according to Islamic law.
    What if they are true men of God who deem divine experience to be higher than scripture, and who made need to make a spiritual journey across many religious traditions before they find their true home? Islam considers itself to be the supreme religion, and does not look kindly on those who have found higher truth elsewhere.
     
    This makes me think that your knowledge about Islam comes from reading Anti-Muslim websites etc. and not from “real life” experiences. Just like anyone else, Muslims can change religions if they want, I personally know ex-Muslims who have done this, and there were no repercussions. Of course it is not preferred, and their families were not happy about it, but that is to be expected. The Qur’an actually the only religious book in the world which encourages us to explore other religious traditions and learn about other people and cultures and the Qur’an is confident that we will find that Islam is the best path to choose.

    2- It is the prerogative of a people to determine what is a capital offense within the context of their own society.
    That’s true. It’s a cultural difference. Another important cultural difference, is that Muslims don’t act according even to their own laws and can fly into a primitive violent rage if one of their very many red lines is crossed. I understand extra judicial killings are common in Pakistan.
     
    It is not my responsibility to defend those who violate the Law, and I do not defend extra judicial killings. This is a problem and I am aware that even the Pakistani legal authorities are trying to address this issue. By the way, I can relate many times in my own life when I witnessed, on various occasions, Non-Muslims (American/Christian/Atheist/Hindu/Jew/ etc.) flying into a “primitive violent rage if one of their very many red lines is crossed.” No one condones it, but sometimes people lose their self in rage, why blame everything on Islam? People are People.

    3- Contrary to popular misunderstandings, Islam is not in opposition to Scientific discovery and technology. Islam encourages seeking knowledge. It’s considered an act of worship.
    It’s also considered dangerous, because it if it infringed on the customs of the Ummah, it could be considered un-Islamic. Like in all totalarian regimes, scientists must be careful about exactly which truths they reveal and exactly whose rice bowls they break.
    To be fair to Islam, Christianity used to have the same problem (ask Gallileo) but thankfully grew out of it.
     
    Yes, Islam sets boundaries which are intended to be for the benefit of the society as a whole. Comparing Islam to totalitarianism is a tired out and inaccurate Islamophobic meme. The boundaries that Islam sets are a general guidance, and the society can determine what works best at the current time and situation within the framework of those boundaries, through a system of consultation (shura), and consensus (Ijma), which also form the basis for Islamic democracy. Likewise, the society can determine what limits to impose (or not) on Scientific discovery and that is the prerogative of any society, for instance in both the east and west there are moral issues surrounding stem cells, and DNA cloning.

    4- Hindu’s and Sikhs were allowed to keep their properties, including religious sites, even after Muslim rule was established.
    This didn’t do them much good when >90% of them had to leave. Muslims are still living happily all over India, from North to South. How many Hindu and Sikh areas are there in Pakistan?
     
    Not sure where you got the >90% figure, especially when today we see that 80% of the population in India is Hindu, comprising almost a billion people. Pakistan is home to 20,000 Sikhs, while I am sure most Sikhs prefer to live in Indian state of Gujarat as that is where the Golden Shrine of Amritsar is located. At the same time, Hindu’s likely prefer to live in Hindu governed India rather than Pakistan. It should not be forgotten that Hindu and Muslim were living together in peace for the most part for centuries before the partition of India and Pakistan due to misguided British colonialist policies and many of the problems we see today stem from that ill-conceived decision.

    5- I will not bother to address your bigoted and racist remark on this point.
    You’re correct to call it that. It was grounded in frustration.

    Thanks for acknowledging, and I hope I have not offended you with any of my remarks.

    Salaam.

    With due respect, your “real life experience living and working with Muslims,” does not make you an expert on Islam by far.

    and my point is that neither does reading books! Islam is a living breathing tribe/nation that is governed more by custom than by ideal. I can actually have a more accurate view of Islam than many Muslims, simply because their heads are full of ideals and stop them seeing the actual state of affairs.

    It is not that Muslims are oblivious to these issues, but rather that they are constantly trying to explain and counter the delusions in non-Muslim misunderstandings about Islam.

    In my experience, Muslims often are oblivious to the issues I raise. To take one example, they think their lack of economic power is due to ‘Gods will’ rather than their own mental shortcomings.

    It’s funny. I have friends who are Muslim and also a friend who is a Hare Krsna. Both their faiths actively encourage rose tinted vision, and so both their faiths are equally blind to their own shortcomings. It is certainly not unique to Islam!

    By the way, I can relate many times in my own life when I witnessed, on various occasions, Non-Muslims (American/Christian/Atheist/Hindu/Jew/ etc.) flying into a “primitive violent rage if one of their very many red lines is crossed.” No one condones it, but sometimes people lose their self in rage, why blame everything on Islam? People are People.

    This is true. It’s what happens when someone’s bubble is suddenly popped. The bigger the bubble, the bigger the rage. Atheists generally have small bubbles and hence get mildly irate. Muslims generally have big bubbles, hence can go absolutely psychotic.

    Not sure where you got the >90% figure, especially when today we see that 80% of the population in India is Hindu, comprising almost a billion people. Pakistan is home to 20,000 Sikhs, while I am sure most Sikhs prefer to live in Indian state of Gujarat as that is where the Golden Shrine of Amritsar is located.

    See the article here http://www.indiaofthepast.org/contribute-memories/read-contributions/life-back-then/355-hindus-sikhs-and-muslims-in-pre-1947-lahore

    There were 300,000 Hindus and Sikhs living in Lahore as Independence approached. By August 19, 1947, that number had sunk to 10,000, and by the end of the month to just 1,000. The majority moved to India.

    Present day numbers for Sikhs in Pakistan are apparently 6k-20k. Pre-partition numbers were at least a few million, so that’s actually way more than 90% disappearance rate.

    It’s not about where people prefer to live, it’s about where they can safely live. A Muslim friend of mine went to Tamil Nadu recently and, deliberately to test for discrimination, he wore his prayer cap. He found no discrimination at all towards himself or to any Muslims living there (and conversely lots of discrimination towards lower caste Hindus). If a Hindu had tried that in Pakistan, I think the situation may be different.

    Also, it’s not the Gujarat – its the Punjab. The Gujarat is to the South where every second family is called Patel, while the Punjab is to the North where they like to run around shouting ‘balle! balle!”

    Thanks for acknowledging, and I hope I have not offended you with any of my remarks.

    Not at all. Thank you.

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  228. Ibn Issam says:

    Islam is a living breathing tribe/nation that is governed more by custom than by ideal.

    There are differences between some cultural practices, and Islamic teachings. A good Muslim who has studied knows the differences therein, if not then I agree that this can be problematic at times. However, I think you need to give more credit to Muslims and their ability to see the current state of affairs. The majority Muslims are able to see past the cultural baggage and understand the high ideals that Islam propounds upon, and many Muslims mourn the fact that some of their brethren, (or even themselves) are not living up to the high standards that Islam sets.

    In my experience, Muslims often are oblivious to the issues I raise. To take one example, they think their lack of economic power is due to ‘Gods will’ rather than their own mental shortcomings.

    Again, you do not give full credit to Muslim peoples faculties, and seem to paint all Muslims as simple minded and one dimensional. It is a given that a people who believe in God and his will, of course, will naturally attribute things to “Gods Will” however, this does not mean that they do not at the same time see the wide array of other factors playing into the state of affairs. Rose tinted vision is not limited to people of religion, I have known many secularists (as well as Christians/Jews/etc.)who never see anything in their own world view worth criticizing.

    The bigger the bubble, the bigger the rage.

    In regard to bubble sizes, suffice it to say that I have seen many non-Muslims lose their stuff, and psychotic violence is not limited to Muslims alone.

    In regard to Sikhs and Hindus living in Pakistan –
    The British partition caused one of the greatest population upheavals in modern history. You give a lopsided picture by focusing solely on Sikh and Hindu population transfers, while neglecting to mention that thousands of Muslims who were forced to move from their homes in India and into the newly formed state of Pakistan. In more current times, due to policy of a fascist far right BJP party, India is attempting to transfer Muslim population out of the state of Assam, who migrated there (along with many Hindus) from the state of Bangladesh during its war of independence from Pakistan. The situation resulting from the British decision to partition the country in 1947 was bad for everyone involved, and as you can see it is still causing problems today. I don’t know how beating at this horse proves anything about Islam, rather than proving that western interventionism is never a good idea.

    In regard to safety in living, there are unsafe neighborhoods in every city in the world. In my own city, in USA I have to be cautious not to live in unsafe neighborhoods where there may be anti-Muslim sentiment, crime or racism to deal with. People take into account multiple reasons in choosing a place to live, they may prefer to live closer to a religious shrine, and/or choose to live someplace safe as well. It would be highly paranoid for a Hindu, to think that everyone in an entire religion is out to get them as you seem to imply.

    At the same time, Hindus in India realize that Muslims, Buddhist and other faith traditions are an integral part of the country, while in Pakistan an lone Hindu can shop safely in a market surrounded by thousands of Muslims. Your thinking, only takes into account negative headlines, and ignores the daily realities, which tend toward peaceful coexistence.

    Salaam.

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    There are differences between some cultural practices, and Islamic teachings. A good Muslim who has studied knows the differences therein, if not then I agree that this can be problematic at times. However, I think you need to give more credit to Muslims and their ability to see the current state of affairs. The majority Muslims are able to see past the cultural baggage and understand the high ideals that Islam propounds upon, and many Muslims mourn the fact that some of their brethren, (or even themselves) are not living up to the high standards that Islam sets.
     
    We agree in principal, but we disagree about numbers. In my experience, most Muslims in real life are nowhere near the higher understanding that we're talking about. Maybe birds of a feather flock together and yourself and Talha both hang out with other more enlightened Muslims.

    Rose tinted vision is not limited to people of religion, I have known many secularists (as well as Christians/Jews/etc.)who never see anything in their own world view worth criticizing.
     
    Good point. Christians are mostly benign nowadays, but misguided Jews and SJWs are both equally as dangerous as misguided Muslims. In fact, by death count, I'm sure Jews are leading the pack by a country mile.

    In regard to bubble sizes, suffice it to say that I have seen many non-Muslims lose their stuff, and psychotic violence is not limited to Muslims alone.

     

    True again. Jewish Berserkers and bawling SJWs spring to mind.

    The British partition caused one of the greatest population upheavals in modern history.
     
    I don't think it's fair to blame Britain. It was bleeding heavily after fighting the war, and it was facing a newly emerging European consciousness that had no love for colonialism. They cut and ran but they did a reasonable job of arranging contingency plans. The two things they really failed with was their failure to insist upon East Pakistan being a separate country from the beginning, and their failure to ensure Kashmir was allocated unambiguously.

    You give a lopsided picture by focusing solely on Sikh and Hindu population transfers, while neglecting to mention that thousands of Muslims who were forced to move from their homes in India and into the newly formed state of Pakistan.

     

    No, I deliberately omitted the Muslims in India because the quantitative aspect is incomparable. To this day, India has 170 million Muslims which is more than the total population of Bangladesh and not far off the population of Pakistan! Conversely, the numbers I dug up last time showed that the Hindu/Sikh disappearance rate from West Pakistan was almost 100%. So the Muslims in India mostly survived and prospered, while the Hindus and Sikhs in West Pakistan were ethnically cleansed. That's a huge difference and, in my eyes, indicative of the intolerance of Islam.

    Your thinking, only takes into account negative headlines, and ignores the daily realities, which tend toward peaceful coexistence.
     
    There is always calm between the storms. But some areas are prone to storms, and some are not. This bares consideration.
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  229. The USA has deprived the people of thirty-five countries of their rights and since World War II by invading them.

    “since World War II”?

    Why the weasel words? We invaded other countries throughout the 20th century. Are you justifying our war in the Pacific just because it was good for China?

    We could have spanked Japan for Pearl Harbor– the result of our goading them– then ignored the rest of the world and gone about our business.

    You sound like the French, who are always condemning our entry into other countries, but hypocritically name their streets after those of us who invaded theirs.

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  230. @Erebus

    Mebbe, but the WTO TRIPS certainly shows entire amount as IP licensing and that fits.
     
    Fits what?

    Billions to Russia every year, ARM licenses and the like, aerospace…
     
    That the Russians are in a position to force payment should surprise no-one. They'd be defenceless without Russia, so they're in a seller's market.

    ... China has always paid through the nose.
     
    Now you're being disingenuous. They pay for a fraction of what they use, and they pay a fraction of market value when they actually buy/license IP (as opposed to profit repat).

    I've been in negotiations, and anecdotally know of more, where the IP owner was basically told: "License us the technology for $X, or lose it and/or the right to do business in the Chinese market." Some, like Siemens chose to lose it, and walked away from China's Hi-Speed Rail network. Most others agree, figuring that something is better than nothing. That's been the reality up to recently, but I agree that it is changing with Xi's MIC2025 plan. The Chinese PTB realize it has to, or they'll have to change the program to MIC2125.

    There are legal fora in the US, at the WTO TRIPS court and in Shanghai and Beijing (where Apple is currently suing Qualcomm). I’ve put some links to them below. As you will see, there are no serious IP cases against China and have never been. Verdicts on the cases that have been brought against Chinese firms (none against the government) suggest small-time privateers, judging by the awards given.

    Federal Court’s Northern District of California, where most complainants will file suits against Chinese entities. A database of Intellectual Property Cases can be found here: dockets.justia.com/browse/circuit-9/state-california/court-candce/noscat-10.

    WTO’s international forum for Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights, TRIPS, start here: http://www.wto.org/english/docs_e/legal_e/27-trips_04d_e.htm

    Chinese IP court filings and decisions: chinaipr.com/category/beijing-ip-court/. It’s a fast-moving scene but most sites have free subscriptions that will keep you up to date.

    Your anecdotes are interesting but, unlike the judgements, not verifiable and, by now, irrelevant. Last year the Japan Science and Technology Agency found that China now ranks as the most influential country in four of eight core scientific fields, tying with the U.S. The agency took the top 10% of the most referenced studies in each field, and determined the number of authors who were affiliated with the U.S., the U.K., Germany, France, China or Japan. China ranked first in computer science, mathematics, materials science and engineering. The U.S., on the other hand, led the way in physics, environmental and earth sciences, basic life science and clinical medicine. China also leads in almost all significant technologies. That doesn’t suggest copying to me.

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  231. @Bill Chicory
    China has made some amazing technological advances and increased their wealth a hundredfold in the past 40 years but at the expense of enormous environmental and social damage. If you told the Chinese that they all could move to the west tomorrow, I'm sure more than 50 percent would. What good is having gleaming cities and driving around in fancy cars when you have farmland that's contaminated with lead and cadmium and lakes and rivers that are devoid of fish. The system is so corrupt that people can't even trust if the food they buy in the supermarket isn't poisoned with chemicals or fakes passed off as real. The corruption extends to the lack of protection for intellectual property. A society that can't guarantee patent protection to innovators and inventors is holding itself back as these people will avoid your country altogether. Japan got rich by being honest and respecting patent and intellectual rights.

    The ‘China’ you describe exists in our media only. In real China, 95% of people trust their government and support its policies. Corruption, compared to the US, is negligible, and equitability is remarkable.

    By June 1, 2021, every Chinese will have a home, a job, plenty of food, education, safe streets, health and old age care. 

    On that day there will be more poor, hungry and imprisoned people in America than in China.Not relatively, not per capita. In absolute numbers. In the richest country on earth.

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  232. @APilgrim
    For those who are interested, in this sort of thing.

    ‘Muslim Minorities Held for Months in Unlawful Facilities’, New York, September 10, 2017 9:00PM EDT, https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/09/10/china-free-xinjiang-political-education-detainees

    Xinjiang, in northwestern China, is home to 10 million Uyghurs and other predominantly Muslim ethnic minorities. The Chinese government has imposed pervasive discrimination, repression, and restrictions on fundamental human rights, including freedom of religion.

    Like WMDs hidden in pre-war Iraq, Uyghur detention centers are also carefully concealed.

    Have you seen how Muslims are policed, persecuted and harassed in the US? Imagine what would happen if some of them–trained and funded by China–had massacred 120 Bostonians at a commuter station one morning, as happened in China. You cannot underestimate the impact of extreme religious thought.

    China’s de-radicalization campaign is stringent, but it works. Europe’s methods are less effective, but it is a common challenge faced by all and it is time to set aside conflicts over different values to prevent radicalism from globalizing.

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  233. @Lee
    Thanks for a nice reasoned article that cuts through US government human rights distortion. We can specify the gap(s) quite precisely in comprehensive terms. All the work is done for you already.

    https://www.ohchr.org/EN/Issues/Indicators/Pages/HRIndicatorsIndex.aspx

    The first map shows each government's commitments to core human rights, the minimal standards of the civilized world. By this criterion, the US government is at the bottom of the barrel, having made only 5 binding commitments. That's about the level of Myanmar, Malaysia, and South Sudan. China has made eight commitments, better but not much.

    The second map shows whether the government lets you appeal its actions to independent international human rights experts. The US government forbids you any recourse to the outside world. So does China. Here both countries are in the cellar, down in the bottom ten per cent with North Korea, Iran, and some other cats and dogs.

    The third map is for reporting compliance. In the cases where the government has made a commitment, does it report as agreed in good faith? In this respect the US is mediocre -- in the middle of the pack, trailing Russia, China, Saudi Arabia, and Turkey, but more dutiful than North Korea or Iran. But the grading here is quite indulgent. In reporting to the Committee Against Torture, the US government turned in its homework five years late while CIA was running their secret gulag of "black site" death camps.

    The fourth map is pass/fail, and the US and China both fail. Both governments have failed to issue standing invitations to UN human rights experts reviewing compliance in-country.

    The fifth map shows whether the governments meet the world standard for institutionalized human rights under independent expert supervision. Here again both China and the US are floundering in the bottom tier, the international equivalent of Animal House. Even Myanmar can do better than that.

    You can characterize the two countries by digging into specific issues and urgent 'follow-on' derelictions.

    https://www.ohchr.org/EN/Countries/AsiaRegion/Pages/CNIndex.aspx
    https://www.ohchr.org/EN/Countries/LACRegion/Pages/USIndex.aspx

    However, since China has committed to respect your economic rights and the US holds them in contempt, there's no US assessment for comparison. There's some high-level information about that in the US UPRs:

    https://www.upr-info.org/database/

    Wonderful links! A thousand thanks.

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  234. Anonymous[321] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ibn Issam

    Islam is a living breathing tribe/nation that is governed more by custom than by ideal.
     
    There are differences between some cultural practices, and Islamic teachings. A good Muslim who has studied knows the differences therein, if not then I agree that this can be problematic at times. However, I think you need to give more credit to Muslims and their ability to see the current state of affairs. The majority Muslims are able to see past the cultural baggage and understand the high ideals that Islam propounds upon, and many Muslims mourn the fact that some of their brethren, (or even themselves) are not living up to the high standards that Islam sets.

    In my experience, Muslims often are oblivious to the issues I raise. To take one example, they think their lack of economic power is due to ‘Gods will’ rather than their own mental shortcomings.
     
    Again, you do not give full credit to Muslim peoples faculties, and seem to paint all Muslims as simple minded and one dimensional. It is a given that a people who believe in God and his will, of course, will naturally attribute things to "Gods Will" however, this does not mean that they do not at the same time see the wide array of other factors playing into the state of affairs. Rose tinted vision is not limited to people of religion, I have known many secularists (as well as Christians/Jews/etc.)who never see anything in their own world view worth criticizing.

    The bigger the bubble, the bigger the rage.
     
    In regard to bubble sizes, suffice it to say that I have seen many non-Muslims lose their stuff, and psychotic violence is not limited to Muslims alone.

    In regard to Sikhs and Hindus living in Pakistan -
    The British partition caused one of the greatest population upheavals in modern history. You give a lopsided picture by focusing solely on Sikh and Hindu population transfers, while neglecting to mention that thousands of Muslims who were forced to move from their homes in India and into the newly formed state of Pakistan. In more current times, due to policy of a fascist far right BJP party, India is attempting to transfer Muslim population out of the state of Assam, who migrated there (along with many Hindus) from the state of Bangladesh during its war of independence from Pakistan. The situation resulting from the British decision to partition the country in 1947 was bad for everyone involved, and as you can see it is still causing problems today. I don't know how beating at this horse proves anything about Islam, rather than proving that western interventionism is never a good idea.

    In regard to safety in living, there are unsafe neighborhoods in every city in the world. In my own city, in USA I have to be cautious not to live in unsafe neighborhoods where there may be anti-Muslim sentiment, crime or racism to deal with. People take into account multiple reasons in choosing a place to live, they may prefer to live closer to a religious shrine, and/or choose to live someplace safe as well. It would be highly paranoid for a Hindu, to think that everyone in an entire religion is out to get them as you seem to imply.

    At the same time, Hindus in India realize that Muslims, Buddhist and other faith traditions are an integral part of the country, while in Pakistan an lone Hindu can shop safely in a market surrounded by thousands of Muslims. Your thinking, only takes into account negative headlines, and ignores the daily realities, which tend toward peaceful coexistence.

    Salaam.

    There are differences between some cultural practices, and Islamic teachings. A good Muslim who has studied knows the differences therein, if not then I agree that this can be problematic at times. However, I think you need to give more credit to Muslims and their ability to see the current state of affairs. The majority Muslims are able to see past the cultural baggage and understand the high ideals that Islam propounds upon, and many Muslims mourn the fact that some of their brethren, (or even themselves) are not living up to the high standards that Islam sets.

    We agree in principal, but we disagree about numbers. In my experience, most Muslims in real life are nowhere near the higher understanding that we’re talking about. Maybe birds of a feather flock together and yourself and Talha both hang out with other more enlightened Muslims.

    Rose tinted vision is not limited to people of religion, I have known many secularists (as well as Christians/Jews/etc.)who never see anything in their own world view worth criticizing.

    Good point. Christians are mostly benign nowadays, but misguided Jews and SJWs are both equally as dangerous as misguided Muslims. In fact, by death count, I’m sure Jews are leading the pack by a country mile.

    In regard to bubble sizes, suffice it to say that I have seen many non-Muslims lose their stuff, and psychotic violence is not limited to Muslims alone.

    True again. Jewish Berserkers and bawling SJWs spring to mind.

    The British partition caused one of the greatest population upheavals in modern history.

    I don’t think it’s fair to blame Britain. It was bleeding heavily after fighting the war, and it was facing a newly emerging European consciousness that had no love for colonialism. They cut and ran but they did a reasonable job of arranging contingency plans. The two things they really failed with was their failure to insist upon East Pakistan being a separate country from the beginning, and their failure to ensure Kashmir was allocated unambiguously.

    You give a lopsided picture by focusing solely on Sikh and Hindu population transfers, while neglecting to mention that thousands of Muslims who were forced to move from their homes in India and into the newly formed state of Pakistan.

    No, I deliberately omitted the Muslims in India because the quantitative aspect is incomparable. To this day, India has 170 million Muslims which is more than the total population of Bangladesh and not far off the population of Pakistan! Conversely, the numbers I dug up last time showed that the Hindu/Sikh disappearance rate from West Pakistan was almost 100%. So the Muslims in India mostly survived and prospered, while the Hindus and Sikhs in West Pakistan were ethnically cleansed. That’s a huge difference and, in my eyes, indicative of the intolerance of Islam.

    Your thinking, only takes into account negative headlines, and ignores the daily realities, which tend toward peaceful coexistence.

    There is always calm between the storms. But some areas are prone to storms, and some are not. This bares consideration.

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  235. Erebus says:

    I am quite aware of China’s rise in scientific research, but I have no idea why you seem to think that it’s germane to a discussion about China’s IP theft. Basic scientific research is, by definition, not normally commercial IP and in any case is but a microscopic fraction of China’s product development activity.

    I suggest you refer again to points A, B & C in my post @182 if you want to address what the world is complaining about.
    Hint: it isn’t complaining about scientific research.

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  236. Chinese fortunes have always ebbed and flowed according to their cyclic view on history. That doesn’t seem to have changed now. Their people are still fundamentally at the mercy of the elements. It is unlike our situation where you see what kind of a hold on us is necessary to keep us in line. If 2 billion of our number lived in the same condition as the Chinese the entire nation would have burned itself out of existence.

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