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The escalating trade war against China, threats of sanctions over allegations of Uyghur detention camps in Xinjiang, threats of sanctions if China buys Russian defense equipment, all is aimed at disruption of the sole emerging threat to a Washington global order. How China’s authorities are trying to deal with this full assault is illustrated by events in Xinjiang.

America and its allies, under the guise of the War on Terror and humanitarian intervention, have droned, bombed and killed millions of Muslim children, women and civilians in a dozen of countries from Afghanistan to Yemen, and displaced millions more. In 2011 President Obama ordered the execution of Anwar al Awlaki, an American extremist preacher, for preaching the same kind of Wahabbist extremism, and separately executed al Awlaki, his sixteen-year-old son and eight-year-old daughter, without trial. This is why Nahdlatul Ulama, the world’s largest Muslim mass organization, and the world’s Muslim governments have not condemned China’s actions: they know that the US stirs up trouble in every Muslim country. The West is engaged in full-scale irregular war to destabilize China. The US created the Uyghur problem in Xinjiang by sponsoring terrorists there–the same tactics it used in Cuba, Venezuela, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria and Libya.

Groups like the World Uyghur Congress have offices in Washington D.C. and are funded by the US State Department via the National Endowment for Democracy (NED). The NED’s website admits to meddling and breaks down its targeting of China into several regions including mainland, Hong Kong, Tibet, and Xinjiang/East Turkestan (“East Turkestan” is what Uyghur militants and separatists call Xinjiang). Beijing does not recognize this name and the NED – by recognizing the term “East Turkestan” – implicitly admits that it supports separatism in Western China, even as the US decries separatists and alleged annexations in places like Donbass, Ukraine and Russian Crimea.

The NED funds The World Uyghur Congress (WUC) which exclusively refers to China’s Xinjiang province as “East Turkestan” and refers to China’s administration of Xinjiang as the “Chinese occupation of East Turkestan.” Here’s the 2017 NED report:

NATIONAL ENDOWMENT FOR DEMOCRACY China (Xinjiang/East Turkestan) Advocacy and Outreach for Uyghur Human Rights (Uyghur Human Rights Project): $310,000. To raise awareness about Uyghur human rights issues, and to bring such issues to prominence globally. The grantee will research, document, and provide independent and accurate information about human rights violations affecting Uyghurs in China. It will also conduct outreach to Chinese citizens in an effort to improve the human rights conditions for Uyghurs, as well as providing international advocacy.

Uyghur Human Rights Advocacy: World Uyghur Congress. $246,000. To raise awareness and support for Uyghurs’ human rights. The grantee will organize leadership and advocacy training seminars for Uyghur youth; monitor, document, and highlight human rights violations in East Turkestan/Xinjiang; and strengthen advocacy on Uyghur issues at the United Nations and the European Parliament.

Uyghurs living in China are descendants of a white imperialist army marooned there and they have sided with every invader of China, asking them to turn Xinjiang into East Turkestan. Chinese Uyghurs collaborated with the Japanese, who set up a Uyghur puppet state, and when China kicked out the Japanese, the Uyghurs called this the conquest of their independent country by China. The President of the World Uyghur Congress, Rebiya Kadeer, a billionaire Chinese citizen now resident in the US, kissed the ground at Japan’s Yasukuni Shrine on May 14, 2011. On WUC’s website, articles like A Profile of Rebiya Kadeer, Fearless Uyghur Independence Activist admits that she seeks “Uyghur independence” from China. The Uyghur East Turkestan Islamic Movement (ETIM), aka Turkestan Islamic Party (TIP), aka Katibat Turkestani, is a terrorist group to whom Osama Bin Laden pledged his support during a 1999 meeting in Afghanistan. Its members have trained with Al-Qaeda and the Taliban in both Afghanistan and Pakistan. After the dissolution of the Soviet Union in the 1990s but before 9/11 the CIA worked with the mujahideen in Afghanistan as well as Osama bin Laden’s Al Qaeda. Boot camps were set up in Afghanistan to train Uyghur separatists, in much the same way as Islamic State extremists were trained and armed to overthrow the Syrian government a decade later.

In February 1997 the CIA-instigated bombing of public buses in Urumqi that killed nine people and injured more than 70.

In 2007-08, Uyghur separatists exploited the 2008 Summer Olympics in Beijing to internationalize their cause. An attempted suicide bombing on a China Southern Airlines flight was thwarted but a terrorist attack in Kashgar in Xinjiang killed 16 police officers four days before the start of the Games.

In July 2009, Uyghur extremists in the provincial capital Urumqi killed 200 people, mostly Han Chinese. True to the imperial double standard, Washington refuses to characterize such deadly attacks as acts of terrorism.

Since 2013, thousands of Uighurs, a Turkic-speaking Muslim minority from western China, have traveled to Syria to train with the Uighur militant group Turkestan Islamic Party and fight alongside al-Qaida, playing key roles in several battles. Syrian President Bashar Assad’s troops are now clashing with Uighur fighters as the six-year conflict nears its endgame. AP Exclusive: Uighurs fighting in Syria take aim at China,

The violence continued through 2014. There were two more failed hijackings of commercial planes as well as scores of bombings, killing tens of civilians each time. The knife attack at the southwestern China city of Kunming railway station in March 2014 was a watershed, resulting in 33 dead and 141 injured. (NATO member Turkey subsequently gave passports to four of the fugitives involved in the railroad station massacre. Read Peter Lee’s China’s Uyghur Problem – The Unmentioned Part).

In 2015 Uyghur-linked terrorists staged a Bangkok bombing which targeted mainly Chinese tourists and left 20 dead after Thailand offered to send Uyghur terror suspects back to China to face justice and defied US demands that the suspects be allowed to travel onward to Turkey.

Faced with such armed insurrections, most sovereign states would have imposed martial law or declared a state of emergency nationwide or in the affected region, suspending the rule of law, as did Malaya’s British colonial rulers, Thailand and Indonesia. The US itself enacted the draconian Patriot Act that stripped Americans of their civil liberties in the name of anti-terrorism. In June 2018, Austria closed seven mosques built by Turkey’s Diyanet, and deported 60 imams and their families with ties to Turkey as part of the ‘fight against political Islam.’ China did not.

In 2015, China passed its Counter-terrorism Law, which allows Beijing to take all necessary measures to put down any activities or behavior it deems threatening to state security and sovereignty. These threats can be summarized by the oft-recited Chinese goal of ridding itself of “the three evils” – terrorism, separatism and religious extremism. It stepped up security, including armed patrols and checkpoints in hot spots to restore law and order, and go after terrorists and prevent them from inflicting more violence. Chinese authorities call this high-intensity regulation and the strategy has succeeded in containing the spread of terrorism beyond Xinjiang and purging religious extremists and separatists from the civil society.

Now China has begun undoing the toxic brainwashing of ordinary Uyghurs. Some 600,000 Uighurs were lifted out of poverty in 2016, and another 312,000 in 2017. More than 400,000 have been relocated from remote villages to places where they are gainfully employed.

Neighborhood religious institutes have been set up to educate citizens on the perils of religious extremism (these community centres where classes are held to detoxify radical Wahhabism were labelled “re-education camps” or concentration camps by the western press, and those attending the classes termed “incarcerated”). Programs to eradicate poverty are implemented to train and prepare Uyghurs for jobs in towns and cities. The Chinese government, through various programs, has been winning the hearts and minds of ordinary Uyghurs–bad news for the US and Uyghur separatists who are making a desperate, all-out bid to unravel the work done by Beijing to eradicate religious extremism and poverty in Xinjiang. The deluge of fake news from Western corporate media since the beginning of this year seeks to demonize the Chinese government, painting it as a gross violator of human rights, when the truth is the exact opposite.

In 2018, Xinhua News (at 80% trust the world’s most credible news agency) asked Shohrat Zakir, chairman of the Government of Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region to elaborate on the main content of the vocational training:

Currently, Xinjiang has established a training model with professional vocational training institutions as the platform, learning the country’s common language, legal knowledge, vocational skills, along with de-extremization education, as the main content, with achieving employment as the key direction. The vocational training institutions have set up departments of teaching, management, medical care, logistics and security, and allocated a corresponding number of faculty, class advisors, medical, catering, logistics and security staff.

In the process of learning and training, the trainees will advance from learning the country’s common language, to learning legal knowledge and vocational skills. Firstly, the trainees will take learning the country’s common language as the basis to improve their communication abilities, gain modern science knowledge and enhance their understanding of Chinese history, culture and national conditions. The teaching follows standardized plans, textbooks, materials and systems. The trainees are taught in various methods suited to their literacy to raise their abilities to use the country’s common language as soon as possible. Secondly, the learning of legal knowledge is taken as a key part of cultivating the trainees’ awareness of the nation, citizenship and rule of law. Legal experts are hired to lecture on the Constitution, the criminal law and the civil law, etc., and judges, prosecutors and lawyers are invited to teach the criminal law, the law on public security administration, the anti-terrorism law, the marriage law, the education law and Xinjiang’s de-extremization regulations. Thirdly, vocational learning is taken as a key way to help trainees find employment. Courses on clothing and footwear making, food processing, electronic product assembly, typesetting and printing, hairdressing and e-commerce have been set up to suit local social needs and job market. Multi-skill training is provided to trainees who have the desire and capability to learn, so that they acquire one to two vocational skills upon graduation. Businesses in garment making, mobile phone assembly and ethnic cuisine catering are arranged to offer trainees practical opportunities. In the meantime, they are paid basic incomes and a bonus. The mechanism has taken shape in which the trainees can “learn, practice and earn money.”

In daily life, vocational institutions and schools strictly implement the spirit of laws and regulations, including the Constitution and religious affairs regulations, and respect and protect the customs and habits of various ethnic groups and their beliefs in diet and daily life. Faculties of the institutions and schools also try their best to ensure and meet the trainees’ needs in study, life, and entertainment on the basis of free education. The cafeteria prepares nutritious free diets, and the dormitories are fully equipped with radio, TV, air conditioning, bathroom and shower. Indoor and outdoor sports venues for basketball, volleyball and table tennis have been built, along with reading rooms, computer labs, film screening rooms, as well as performance venues such as small auditoriums and open-air stages. Various activities such as contests on speech, writing, dancing, singing and sports are organized. Many trainees have said that they were previously affected by extremist thought and had never participated in such kinds of art and sports activities, and now they have realized that life can be so colorful.

Moreover, the vocational institutions and schools pay high attention to the trainees’ mental health and helped them solve problems in life. They not only provide professional psychological counseling services, but also duly deal with complaints from the trainees and their families. All this shows that the management of the vocational institutions and schools are people-oriented.

Xinjiang’s GDP grew 8% last year and is expected to accelerate since it is a gateway for the Belt and Road Initiative. Its future is bright and we can expect its recent problems, like Like Tibet’s, to fade into memory within three years.

 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: American Media, China, Uyghurs 
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  1. peterAUS says:

    Informative.

    The dilemma, whether the author’s guffawing about China was simple ignorance or paid employment, has been resolved.

    Well, a man has to make a living.

    All good.

  2. anon[355] • Disclaimer says:

    Contrary to the fairy-tale this write presents the Chinese are no knights in shining armour. China is a corrupt, brutal country.

    • Replies: @Nonny
    , @padre
    , @Anonymous
  3. Are the Chinese authorities murdering political and religious dissidents via organ extraction?
    There is a YES/NO answer to this question, and I think I know what it is.
    MANDATE OF HELL.

    • Replies: @Joe Wong
    , @Anonymous
  4. Yee says:

    There’s no secret that the US fund and train the East Turk terrorists.
    Bush and their leaders:

    Islam worldwide had the chance for their version of Renaissance and Reform after WW2, too bad the bastard Brzezinskis and the Americans have successfully turned them to extremism, so they can be used as a tool. Some people are evil, some people are dumb.

    • Replies: @DB Cooper
    , @Jeff Stryker
  5. just one question Mr. Roberts about something that piqued my interest. “Uyghurs living in China are descendants of a white imperialist army marooned there”. Could you please elaborate on that? We have brown, Turkic, Muslims who are from a “white imperialist army marooned there”!? Goodness. I’ve never heard of anything about this. Any links or background info…?

  6. @giraffehead

    Your question hits the nail on the head. In this screed, Godfree Roberts comes across as little better than a professional apologist for Chinese atrocities. His writing here is over-the-top propaganda. Truths about American atrocities are presented solely as part of a tu quoque argument in defense of Chinese atrocities.

    After reading Roberts, I actually have less sympathy for the Han Chinese government’s issues with Uighurs, Tibetans, Christians and other ethnic and religious minorities minorities than I did before. I still find Chinese policies towards these minorities lawless and repellent. Perhaps they are no worse than the indiscriminate American-Israeli murders of Muslims in North Africa, the Levant, the Middle East, and Southwest Asia, but most certainly they are no better.

    • Agree: byrresheim, Druid
    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Vidi
    , @Joe Wong
  7. Anon[330] • Disclaimer says:

    I don’t really know what China is doing with Uighurs, but it’s hilarious that the US — a nation founded on ‘genocide’ of Indians, has supported the Zionist destruction of Palestine, and invades & destroys other nations — would be invoking ‘human rights’ to apply pressure on China.

    This goes to show how hollow ‘human rights’ is in a politicized world. It’s just a cynical ploy, a tool of foreign policy. Find some bogus excuse to stick it to China and renege on previous agreements.
    Now, the Uighur issue obviously isn’t bogus to the Uighurs, and the issue itself should be addressed seriously. But US exploitation of the Uighur issue as human-rights-crisis is total BS.

    If the world was governed by real Human Rights, the US should be sanctioned and destroyed by all nations. The current US that is ruled by Jewish globalists is sick, sick, sick.

    Now, it’d be nice if China shot back to condemning US support of Zionist occupation of Palestine. But as the Empire of Judea is the most powerful empire in the world, China will not touch that issue. It can only play moral defense when it should really be playing moral offense against the US, the premier imperialist psychopathic nation on Earth. US is a nation that remains in Syria to protect terrorists in the name of fighting terrorists. It’s totally surreal at this point.

    • Agree: Vidi, Alfred
  8. Tulip says:

    Its all unicorns and rainbows at the Uyghur re-education camps apparently.

    It seems like there is a simple solution here: China allows the particular people living in their particular ancestral territory the right to govern themselves, instead of having to lick the boots of their Han Overlords.

    • Replies: @Vidi
  9. Svigor says:

    This is why Nahdlatul Ulama, the world’s largest Muslim mass organization, and the world’s Muslim governments have not condemned China’s actions: they know that the US stirs up trouble in every Muslim country.

    Or maybe Indonesians just don’t GAF about Uighurs. Probably don’t even think about them.

  10. Svigor says:

    The West is engaged in full-scale irregular war to destabilize China. The US created the Uyghur problem in Xinjiang by sponsoring terrorists there–the same tactics it used in Cuba, Venezuela, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria and Libya.

    I figure the conflict between the US regime and the Chinese regime is their business. Nobody consulted me on the matter. And there are a great many grievances I have against the former that go ignored, so my opinion on Sino-American relations aren’t likely to be heeded, even if they were a personal priority of mine. But I have to point out that fomenting insurrection is usually only effective under shitty, brittle, hard-authoritarian gov’ts, like the one ruling China. China would return the favor, if they thought it would be effective. On the other hand, I have little doubt the Chinese are returning the favor (assuming your accusation is true) in the classic Soviet way, by supporting decadent, corrosive, subversive, anti-white (i.e., leftist) movements in the US.

  11. Svigor says:

    Couple other quibbles, Uighurs aren’t white. They’re Turko-Mongols, like most populations in central Asia:

    https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=uighur

    And their “marooning” in Asia (their earliest origins are disputed and may lie not far from their current location) happened over a thousand years ago, so it isn’t particularly relevant today.

    As for separatism, I happen to consider it a human right, and something to be encouraged as a primary alternative to imperialism, and genocide via innocuous-sounding terms like assimilation and integration. I only withhold support from those who don’t reciprocate, like Jews.

  12. Svigor says:

    In 2018, Xinhua News (at 80% trust the world’s most credible news agency)

    LOL, author is a funny guy. Let’s vote on whether the Earth orbits the Sun next.

    I’m not sure I even believe in such a thing as a credible corporate news agency, even relatively independent ones like we have in the West, never mind their state-run analogues in hard-authoritarian territories like China. They’re all propaganda mills, IMO.

  13. Svigor says:

    Whoa, the out-of-order comments thing is still around.

    • Replies: @Nonny
  14. @peterAUS

    Informative.

    The dilemma, whether the author’s guffawing about China was simple ignorance or paid employment, has been resolved.

    Well, a man has to make a living.

    All good.

    The mere fact he’s pro-PRC, while perhaps unfortunate, is hardly proof that he’s a paid operative of that regime.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  15. Everybody knows the US is fomenting the difficulties wherever they are, but especially in places like Xinjiang and Burma. All you hysterical China-haters are off-topic.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  16. peterAUS says:
    @Kevin O'Keeffe

    The mere fact he’s pro-PRC, while perhaps unfortunate, is hardly proof that he’s a paid operative of that regime.

    That’s fine.

    My take: the topics chosen and, really, the level of pro-PRC propaganda there point to such conclusion.

    He does his job, some people need it, some people like it….and some people watch it. We, “watching”, draw our own conclusions. There is a relation between state propaganda and the reality.
    Some would say, crude propaganda is directly related to opposite on the ground.

    So, all good.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Godfree Roberts
  17. peterAUS says:
    @peterAUS

    To complete the train of thought.

    The next, should it come, will, most likely be: “prove it’s propaganda”. So, I have two options there:
    1. Engage with paid author, probably some paid commentators and legion of “Team China”, or, better team “I hate West/USA” in debate here. You know, long posts, links, research…time and effort.
    2. Go to beach and have a nice swim. Then do some fishing (providing I can find some shade along the cliffs).

    That’s a hard one.

  18. Tulip says:

    When the PRC finally outbids Israel for control of U.S. foreign policy, I presume this is the sort of work product we will get from the Neo-Conservatives.

  19. Neighborhood religious institutes have been set up to educate citizens on the perils of religious extremism (these community centres where classes are held to detoxify radical Wahhabism were labelled “re-education camps” or concentration camps by the western press, and those attending the classes termed “incarcerated”).

    Are these facilities customarily located in the neighborhoods where the bulk of the attendees reside? Or are they often located outside the city limits, in more rural locales? Do the residents choose to go there, or are they compelled? Are the facilities residential? Are the attendees free to come & go as they please (within the confines of their coursework schedule)? Because everything I’ve come across, seems to suggest an answer more in line with the term “concentration camp” than “neighborhood religious institute“.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  20. @Svigor

    Kindly favor us with an example of Xinhua publishing lies or misleading information.

    • Replies: @Svigor
  21. @Kevin O'Keeffe

    Xinjiang Province alone has over 24,000 mosques, the total in the top ten Muslim populated provinces is over 36,000 (http://www.360doc.com/content/14/0316/11/11971456_360980940.shtml) and nationally, there are over 39,000 Muslim places of worship (http://www.360doc.com/content/17/0411/19/15189412_644740159.shtml). So much for Islam being repressed in China.

    A Chinese friend, Xiao Zhang, writes, “I have a friend who just came back from Xinjiang and he has visited some of the reeducation camps and talked with people there. And he told me that Uighurs really received vocational education inside, not kidding, and cannot get out until completion of courses. The government in Xinjiang simply kept all the potential “trouble makers” they could find in detention based on the reports they received from various sources, among which reports from communites make up a major part. The government has known for years that poor-educated, impoverished and umployed people are more easily to be radicalized. Now they take actions to ensure they won’t make troubles. This is another example of Chinese style of government behaviour, just like one-child policy. You may hold good intentions, but you cannot force people to be good”.

    • Replies: @Miggle
  22. @peterAUS

    Instead of indulging in ad hominem speculations, why not give us some facts? Or are you among the 6% of people who still trust our media’s narrative?

  23. @Svigor

    According to a recent World Values Survey, (http://www.worldvaluessurvey.org/WVSPublicationsMap.jsp) 96 percent of Chinese expressed confidence in their government, compared to only 37 percent of Americans. Likewise, 83 percent of Chinese thought their country is run for all the people, rather than for a few big interest groups, whereas only 36 percent of Americans thought the same of their country. http://www.wvsevsdb.com/wvs/WVSData.jsp?Idioma=I

    Edelman Trust Barometer: 80–90% of Chinese trust their government, the highest trust level of any national government.

    According to the Pew Charitable Trusts, “Nine in ten Chinese are happy with the direction of their country (85%), feel good about the current state of their economy (91%) and are optimistic about China’s economic future.”  
    http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/05/23/chapter-1-national-and-economic-conditions/

    Can You Criticize the Government of China?
    Harvard University’s Kennedy School of Government
    http://www.inpraiseofchina.com/2014/09/can-you-criticize-the-chinese-government.html

    • Replies: @Tusk
    , @Jus' Sayin'...
    , @Svigor
  24. Tusk says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    I’m sure 96% of people at Jonestown trusted their glorious leader…

    • Agree: Svigor
    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  25. @Tusk

    Get real.

    A billion Chinese have traveled abroad in the last ten years. Millions have studied in our universities, all of them have access to the BBC, CNN, etc., they’re much better educated than us. Their cops are unarmed and, compared to ours, their prisons are empty.

  26. @Godfree Roberts

    110% of North Koreans express absolute confidence in their state-run news sources. Now I really do believe you’re just a shill for PRC.

    • Replies: @Svigor
    , @Godfree Roberts
  27. Yee says:

    Always funny to see people insist whatever American Media says about China is true, and anyone says different is a propagandist.

    The US truly runs the best propaganda in the world… Impressive.

    Anyway, Western media has no influence on China’s government policies, so the worst it can do is to discourage foreigners coming to China, no big deal. It’s not like the US can pull a “Assad must go” in China…

    • Replies: @Svigor
    , @jacques sheete
  28. Tusk says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Meanwhile, ABC, BBC, NYT, WSJ, Reuters etc… are all banned in China. I suppose educated by CCP propoganda is still education in one sense. China doesn’t build prisons, it builds cemeteries, as a significant portion of it’s citizens seemingly have the propensity to simply die by natural (see: faulty building) causes. If China, the great beacon of intelligista, is so amazing then why does it send it’s citizens off to steal technology from other countries? Why does it require breaking copyright law in order to innovate?
    I hope the CCP pays you well, though probably now just in Social credits haha.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
    , @Biff
    , @Bill
  29. Svigor says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Are they honest about the Jewish Question? Lies of omission are the primary weapon of deception.

    • Replies: @Escher
    , @Miggle
  30. Svigor says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Either the vast majority of Chins are conformist suck-up coolies (totally possible), or those numbers are bogus.

    Or some combination of the two.

  31. Svigor says:
    @Jus' Sayin'...

    Laughed out loud @ that one but already used up my Agree/LOL/etc.

  32. Svigor says:
    @Yee

    Look, China’s a hard-authoritarian state (frankly, I don’t think China will ever be not too terrified of its own shadow to be otherwise). Let’s just be honest about that. And corrupt as fuck. With a whole economy centered around thieving.

    That said, they’re ruled by their own kind, so as a white ethnopatriot I’d trade places with them in a nanosecond. I’d much rather live in a corrupt, white-run, hard-authoritarian state with an economy centered around thieving than in the Judenreich we have now.

    As usual, critics of the US are right for all the wrong fucking reasons. It’s like when I get called an antisemite for pointing out how racist Jews are: dumb fucks, I’m a racist.

  33. Svigor says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Lol, because ethnostate.

    Let’s see the Chinks manage a population that’s 13% black and over 20% hispanic. With actual legal rights. Then you’d see their cops armed and their prisons full.

    FFS leftists are full of shit.

    All this apparent crit from the left from the Godfrees of the world is bogus because these countries they compare favorably to the USA are essentially devoid of diversity.

    This totally belies the leftist’s supposed love of diversity. As ever, diversity is just something the leftist uses to destroy whites. Not something he actually values.

    • Agree: Tusk
    • Disagree: Miggle
  34. DB Cooper says:
    @Yee

    Don’t know whether Bush washed his hands after touching that sleazing slime ball on his left hand side.

    http://www.atimes.com/the-contradictions-of-harry-wu/

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  35. Svigor says:

    The fact is you can’t have a substantial black population that is free, and have law and order. Being a leftist means denying this dilemma exists.

    • Agree: Clyde
  36. Escher says:
    @Svigor

    Why would Xinhua care about the “Jewish question”? Not like there is a large Jewish community in China.

    • Replies: @Reuben Kaspate
    , @Anonymous
  37. Yee says:

    Svigor,

    “And corrupt as fuck. With a whole economy centered around thieving.”

    What a joke! Americans talking about corruption in China. Sure, let’s learn from America and legalize thieving public money, so we can declare ourselves clean.

  38. Yee says:

    DB Cooper,

    Well, those people should all go to the US and live on American money…
    Good riddance.

  39. Talha says:
    @Jus' Sayin'...

    Good points. I can understand any nation’s concern about terrorism and retaining territorial integrity. I think most people can. However, there is proportionality in methods and means. Is the solution targeted or indiscriminate?

    I certainly hope China is not doing some of the things I’ve heard about in those camps – I’d love all of that to be incorrect. There is generally an easy solution; just open it up to foreign journalists and NGOs to show nothing like torture, etc. isn’t happening and it is just ex-Wahhabi extremists getting de-radicalized (it actually worked fairly well with some groups in Egypt, Al-Azhar should be consulted if one is serious).

    Do I expect better from the current post-Mao incarnation of China? No, not really, but I’m quite thankful it’s not worse.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Reuben Kaspate
  40. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:
    @peterAUS

    This is the type of response one would expect from an Anglo and an Aussie.

    Typical divide and conquer tactics.

    I expect the truth is somewhere in the middle of what Godfree and the mainstream media are reporting, but I am glad Godfree pointed out the Western hypocracy at worrying about those poor Uhygurs while the west is wiping out the middle east.

    • Agree: jacques sheete
  41. Vidi says:
    @Jus' Sayin'...

    In this screed, Godfree Roberts comes across as little better than a professional apologist for Chinese atrocities.

    What Chinese atrocities in Xinjiang? Name them, and give us some reason to believe that the reports are not fake news.

  42. Vidi says:
    @giraffehead

    just one question Mr. Roberts about something that piqued my interest. “Uyghurs living in China are descendants of a white imperialist army marooned there”. Could you please elaborate on that?

    I am not Dr. Roberts, but I happened to be learning about China’s Uighur problem (which as I have discovered has undoubtedly been fomented by the U.S. as yet another dirty trick in a long, long list of anti-Chinese dirty tricks).

    Look at the Buddha picture in one of Bezeklik’s Thousand Buddha Caves (link). These caves are right in the middle of the Uighur part of Xinjiang. The Buddha himself looks East Asian, but the worshippers look very Caucasian.

  43. Clyde says:
    @Svigor

    Truth! As it is, in our big cities we often find black students beating up Viet and Chinese students.

    .

  44. Vidi says:
    @Tulip

    Its all unicorns and rainbows at the Uyghur re-education camps apparently.

    It’s not perfect (nothing in this world is), but as Dr Roberts has shown, China’s treatment of the Uighurs in Xinjiang is definitely not repressive. That the U.S. is funding and is training terrorists and rent-a-mobs (as it does in many other areas around the world) does not indicate what the average Uighur thinks.

    It seems like there is a simple solution here: China allows the particular people living in their particular ancestral territory the right to govern themselves, instead of having to lick the boots of their Han Overlords.

    This shows how little you know beyond the news fakery of the U.S. empire. Xinjiang is an autonomous region (link), which means it is mostly self-governing. The region’s formal name is Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous Region.

  45. Vidi says:
    @Svigor

    Look, China’s a hard-authoritarian state (frankly, I don’t think China will ever be not too terrified of its own shadow to be otherwise).

    As Dr Roberts wrote, in 2011 the U.S. executed Anwar al Awlaki, his son, and his young daughter — with no trial. Awlaki was an American citizen. In my opinion, the U.S. is often as hard-authoritarian as it gets.

    And [China is] corrupt as fuck. With a whole economy centered around thieving.

    When has anyone in China gotten a trillion-dollar bailout — and stayed out of jail?

    Either your brain is totally rotted by U.S. propaganda, or you are one of the propangadists yourself.

  46. @Yee

    YEE

    Like Afghanistan, the Uighur were DC’s best friend before 9-11 and brave martyrs in the Cold War and then after 9-11 the US turned around and demanded that China eradicate extremist Uighur.

    The US is a chameleon. One year a friend, the next year a foe.

    China has actually taken a fairly smart approach. For all practical purposes the province is autonomous.

  47. @Svigor

    Why do think Hong Kong gangsters moved to the United States when China got it back in 1997 knowing that Communists would root them out and imprison them for life?

    The US does not have diversity. It has a huge black underclass and cartel-backed Mestizo street gangs with guns and money.

  48. Thomm says:

    China and the Uyghurs.

    America and the Wiggers.

    Heh heh heh heh

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  49. @Tusk

    I’ve been reading and listening to the ABC, BBC, NYT, WSJ, Reuters etc., for sixty years.

    Based on their coverage of China I suggest they should be banned here, too. Their coverage has been consistently mendacious and verifiably wrong in almost every respect and lulled us into complacency.

    The result is that China has now overtaken us financially, scientifically and technologically while winning the hearts and minds of our allies.

    Are you aware that Australians and New Zealanders now trust Xi Jinping more than they trust their own prime ministers?

    GALLUP: U.S., China on Shaky Footing in Australia, New Zealand: https://news.gallup.com/poll/245114/china-shaky-footing-australia-new-zealand.aspx

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @peterAUS
  50. @Svigor

    Which numbers are bogus and why do you say so?

  51. @Svigor

    China? Authoritarian? Don’t make me laugh.

    au·thor·i·tar·i·an: favoring or enforcing strict obedience to authority, especially that of the government, at the expense of personal freedom.

    An authoritarian government ‘favors or enforces strict obedience to authority, especially that of the government, at the expense of personal freedom’, right?

    So the leader of an authoritarian power would have the sole power to:

    Declare war. Frequently.

    Issue 300,000 national security letters (administrative subpoenas with gag orders that enjoin recipients from ever divulging they’ve been served);

    Control information at all times under his National Security and Emergency Preparedness Communications Functions.

    Torture, kidnap and kill anyone, anywhere, at will.

    Correct?

    And an authoritarian government would limit personal freedom by

    Secretly banning 50,000 citizens from flying and refusing explanations.

    Refusing to discuss citizens’ wishes like Medicare for All, which 70% desire

    Imprisoning 2,000,000 citizens witout trial.

    Killing 2,000 citizens each year prior to arrest.

    Right?

    Since China does none of those things and America does all of them, which has an authoritarian government?

    An authoritarian leader would have the sole power to:
    Declare war–frequently;
    Issue 300,000 national security letters (administrative subpoenas with gag orders that enjoin recipients from ever divulging they’ve been served);
    Control information at all times than any monarch in history under National Security and Emergency Preparedness Communications Functions.
    to torture, kidnap and assassinate anyone, anywhere, at will.

    Personal freedom would limited by a government that
    Secretly bans 50,000 people from flying and refusing requests for an explanation
    Imprisons 2,000,000 people without trial
    Kills 2,000 people each year prior to arrest

    No Chinese leader, Mao included, has had one of those powers.

  52. Biff says:
    @Tusk

    If China, the great beacon of intelligista, is so amazing then why does it send it’s citizens off to steal technology from other countries? Why does it require breaking copyright law in order to innovate?

    I see you’ve been watching your list of ABC, BBC, NYT, WSJ, Reuters etc.. I wish that filth was banned here too.

  53. @Svigor

    China is home to 122,000,000 ethnic minority people and recognizes 35 ethnic languages (nine of them on its currency), including white folk like us.

  54. Biff says:
    @Svigor

    Let’s see the Chinks manage a population that’s 13% black and over 20% hispanic. With actual legal rights. Then you’d see their cops armed and their prisons full.

    You just don’t get it. The liberal dream world your living in has this thing called equal rights – something of which many consider a wrecking ball. I can’t think of a single East Asian country that has equal rights. It’s un-natural and it doesn’t work.
    There are groups of people out there that are very wise – yours isn’t one of them.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  55. Nonny says:
    @Svigor

    Say more. Are they getting moved, not appended? Are the associated times, 6:43 pm Jan 10 for you, bug-ridden, rigged, earlier than the post you responded to?

  56. Erebus says:

    I wonder how many of the know-it-alls here have ever met a Uyghur, much less count any as personal friends. Judging by the quality of the comments, I wonder how many have ever been to China, much less Xinjiang.

    I further wonder if those tossing accusations of “leftist” & “paid shill” at Godfree, would toss them so gleefully at Ray Dalio.

    https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/looking-back-last-40-years-reforms-china-ray-dalio/

  57. Tyrion 2 says:

    China is currently sat one below Algeria on the UNDP development ranking and equal to Botswana in GDP per capita purchasing power parity.

    Given what we can suppose is an industrious population, as in South Korea and Japan and, admittedly gamed, PISA rankings, this is pathetic.

    Indeed, it is worse as China has the advantage of not expending on luxuries like humane treatment of minorities, political representation and the freedom to decide your own family size. Ethnic cleansing has ended the Tibetan problem in an economically efficient manner, true, but one need not be a moral extremist to suppose there is a spiritual cost.

    Propagandists, like Godfree, might insist we take Chinese state marketing material at its word but the statistics above remain stark.

    Naturally, there are historical reasons why China lags Algeria and Botswana but those historical reasons were largely caused by the continuing Communist Party of China. Singapore, admittedly the recipient of extremely selected Chinese migration, is not ranked below Algeria or Botswana on anything except natural resources.

    Godfrey’s kow-towing will not get him the job he wants. He needs to learn how to mix criticism with his slavish praise in order to make the praise seem earned. That is if there is hope for the Chinese, only madmen bask in this level of sycophancy and only madmen with ill futures pay for it.

    • Replies: @Escher
    , @peterAUS
  58. Miggle says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    So, they are detention camps. Thanks for clarifying that.

    Imprisoned in detention camps on suspicion, without trial, right, sir?

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  59. I know very little about these Uyghurs.
    But is is quite easy to imagine that they fit into present Chinese society as badly as the Tibetans did.
    I deplore that the Tibetan culture has been destroyed, deplore because it was an interesting culture, a medieval theocracy, where monks were the parasites.
    This interest is, was, no more than being able to see how such a culture could exist.

    With the Uyghurs it may be the same, also a theocracy, ran, run, by Muslim imams.
    That the west uses groups like this for western interests, what’s new ?
    Twice the USA fomented Kurdish rebellions in Iraq against Saddam.
    Enormous amounts of money now are spent, have been spent, to re-create the marshes where the marsh arabs lived.
    Wilfred Thesiger’s book on these marsh Arabs in not in my list, I see.
    Also here, an interesting culture destroyed.

    • Replies: @Svigor
  60. Miggle says:
    @Svigor

    Looking at the closed-minded rot of those attacking the article, including you, makes me more inclined to accept what Godfrey Roberts has written, accept that it is the objective truth.

    “Americans”, so-called, get out of Texas. Hand it back to Mexico.

  61. Miggle says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Very impressive, Godfrey Roberts.

    The Chinese police are unarmed? Incredible! But I believe you.

    Their prisons relatively empty, American prisons appallingly full, all for profit? The more in prison, the greater the profit for privatized prisons.

    And it is said that they have democracy. What other country in the world does? Of course there are tricks to fool the masses in barbaric regions like North America, but what other country has a democracy at least equal to China’s?

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Godfree Roberts
  62. Miggle says:

    Astonishing article. Thanks, Godfrey. But the Uigurs have been there since before China moved west, haven’t they? Why not allow a self-determination referendum?

    • Replies: @Miggle
  63. Miggle says:
    @Miggle

    Oh, I know. American interference in any referendum. Forget it.

  64. Nonny says:
    @anon

    Corrupt? What country comes within a light year of America on corrupt? Ukraine comes close. China? Because it cracks down on corruption?

    • Replies: @Druid
  65. Miggle says:
    @Svigor

    Roberts challenged you:

    Kindly favor us with an example of Xinhua publishing lies or misleading information.

    You evaded:

    Are they honest about the Jewish Question? Lies of omission are the primary weapon of deception.

    So, as you make clear, there is no case in which Xinhua publishing lies or misleading information.

    Thanks for making clear to us the great difference between Xinhua, honest, and the Western MSM, all dishonest, all propaganda.

    Or would you like to try again, give an actual example?

  66. Miggle says:
    @Svigor

    What reason do you have to think this? Either?

  67. Miggle says:
    @Svigor

    Svigor, you are coming out with all these prejudiced raves of the closed-minded, saying nothing substantial. Does this mean you are in the top one percent of Americans in personal wealth, and so have a terrible fear of Chinese socialism?

    Corrupt as fuck? The Killary has just completed the first year of her 20 year prison sentence for corruption, and not one congressman has yet been executed for treason for putting the interests of Israel ahead of the interests of Americans. Which country is corrupt as fuck?

  68. Miggle says:
    @Svigor

    Svigor, you are full of shit.

    If America’s population is 13% black, why?

    Read the Journal of John Woolman, including the Introduction by J. G. Whittier, and come back.

  69. DFH says:

    Uyghurs living in China are descendants of a white imperialist army marooned there and they have sided with every invader of China, asking them to turn Xinjiang into East Turkestan

    wtf, I love Uyghurs now

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
    , @denk
  70. I wonder if the author knows a single Uighur personally. In my student years at Oriental faculty one of my close buddies and some of my teachers were Uighurs from China who moved to the Soviet union. Y Uighur friend both went to Chongqing institute of foreighn languages in 1988 for practice and in January 1989 we paid visit to his relatives in Urumchi. I saw lots of Chinese over there. On quite a number of times I was witnessing very rude and arrogant behavior by Han towards my friends Uighur buddies. It got as far as one Han basically insulting my friend about his mother on the market. There definitelly was no love lost. In case of Uighurs Islam is most probably just a vehicle f their natural hatred towards occupiers who Chinese are, who also brought great number of han to Xinjiang to perpetuate occupation. Not that I support or give damn about Uighurs but it is a mere fact. Naturally USA is using this.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Druid
  71. @obwandiyag

    Everybody knows except me. I haven’t seen any evidence of American fomenting of the difficulties in either Xinjiang or Burma. Please provide your sources, preferably not mere assertions in crummy conspiracy websites.

    • Replies: @Anon
  72. @Svigor

    “a whole economy centred around thieving”!! That makes you sound like a total lunatic whom no one should read in the expectation that you will try ro tell the sober truth. Would I be right in thinking that this scatterbrained pub talk blather emerged from some stray thought that there has been some Chinese theft of intellectual property though you don’t of course have any idea of the figures or the value? Hint, think infrastructure, including urban housing expenditure as the great motor of the Chinese economy when we all most needed it to keep humming.

  73. @DB Cooper

    Don’t know whether Bush washed his hands after touching that sleazing slime ball on his left hand side.

    I don’t know either, but the “sleazing (sic) slime ball” [to his left] should have.

  74. onebornfree says: • Website

    All systems of government are fraudulent. All are merely systems of fraud, extortion, theft, coercion and murder.

    Communism, fascism, socialism, monarchism and “constitutionally limited republics”, it makes no difference [ although admittedly, I’d rather live under a very small government “constitutionally limited republic” for as long as it lasted , which wouldn’t be long, as ably demonstrated via US history, if I had my “druthers”].

    Here we have a person [article author] who is either a naive fool, or an obfuscating crook [ I don’t know and don’t care which], promoting the glories/benefits of Chinese communist totalitarianism, being supposedly “opposed” via comments here from individuals who in fact worship the exact same god, [the state], all pontificating and hallucinating about how their particular statist system is so much better than the full on collectivism at work destroying people and lives in China, never realizing that even when you start out with a very small “constitutionally limited republic”[ as the US purportedly was eons ago] – that, sooner or later , full on communism, or its baby sister fascism, is the inevitable result.

    Yes, the US might be marginally better than China freedom wise at the present time- but its making rapid “progress” towards the supposed Chinese “ideal”, mark my words.

    Which no doubt, is encouraging for the author of the article. 🙂

    And so it goes…

    regards, onebornfree

    • Troll: Biff
    • Replies: @denk
    , @Reuben Kaspate
  75. @Yee

    This is true.:

    Always funny to see people insist whatever American Media says about China is true, and anyone says different is a propagandist.

    This is true also and has been for over a century.”

    The US truly runs the best propaganda in the world… Impressive.

    I hope this is true as well.:

    Anyway, Western media has no influence on China’s government policies…

    Very interesting article.

  76. Anon[131] • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    There is generally an easy solution; just open it up to foreign journalists and NGOs to show nothing like torture, etc.

    Actually, they did. Some of footage are available in Youtube. They look like a vocational school. From what I saw, everyone in there is male. No women. Then again, I don’t know how many camps were made available to foreign journalists or every camp is set up like that.

    • Replies: @Talha
  77. Uyghurs living in China are descendants of a white imperialist army marooned there…

    I’ll readily admit ignorance about Uyghurs but a quick internet search doesn’t seem to support that. Can anyone shed a bit of light on that?

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
    , @Che Guava
  78. @Biff

    No East Asian country wants immigrants. The unspoken “Base Perimeters” and similar restrictions on the US military are intended for a reason.

    When I lived in Dubai and a carrier docked a certain number of US enlisted Navy personnel got into a savage brawl in KFC not 20 minutes after shore leave.

    Take a guess at who they were.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  79. @Thomm

    Whiggers are everywhere in the US. However they are mostly harmless. They are not even as inclined to crime or violence as UK Chavs.

    Who is really afraid of Eminem?

    Whiggers are poseurs who smoke weed and get girls pregnant and sometimes commit very petty crime.

    They are not likely to mount an insurgency for the purposes of autonomy.

    RICO wiped serious white criminals out-if you consider Italian-Americans whites. Bikers the same.r

    • Replies: @Reuben Kaspate
    , @Thomm
  80. Yee says:

    Jeff Stryker,

    “and then after 9-11 the US turned around and demanded that China eradicate extremist Uighur.”

    Don’t be silly, Jeff. The “Bush and East Turk leader” photo I posted above was taken after the Afghanistan war. The US never “demanded that China eradicate extremist Uighur”, your government have been aiding them all the time.

    This is an old game of your government – get the Asians to fight Asians, Slavs to fight Slavs, Arabs to fight Arabs… There’s no right or wrong in any of it, as long as they can destablize their target country.

  81. Escher says:
    @Tyrion 2

    Link please. I find it hard to believe China is ranked below Botswana on any human development index.
    Also, Singapore was built by descendants of illiterate peasant immigrants from Fujian, not exactly a selected group.

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    , @Anonymous
  82. Talha says:
    @Anon

    Then again, I don’t know how many camps were made available to foreign journalists or every camp is set up like that.

    Exactly my point. I’m not worried about the camps actually being run like vocational schools, nobody is…it’s the other ones where people are dissappearing or there are reports of torture and the like.

    These are not missile production factories or nuclear poweplants or places where national security is at risk of being spied upon; just open them up. In fact, I’d like the same from plenty of governments in the Middle East too over similar concerns, so I’m not singling our China here.

    Peace.

  83. Agent76 says:

    Nov 14, 2018 The Cultural Genocide of China’s Uighurs

    Chris sits down with Irade Kashgary to discuss China’s systematic genocide of the Uighur identity.

    • Replies: @DB Cooper
    , @denk
  84. Bill says:
    @Tusk

    Meanwhile, ABC, BBC, NYT, WSJ, Reuters etc… are all banned in China.

    China bans lying propaganda outlets; therefore, Chinese news is lying propaganda. Argument needs work.

  85. @jacques sheete

    YEE will concur that Uighur are Turks, to oversimplify things.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  86. Yee says:

    Sergey Krieger,

    “we paid visit to his relatives in Urumchi. I saw lots of Chinese over there. On quite a number of times I was witnessing very rude and arrogant behavior by Han towards my friends Uighur buddies.”

    Urumchi is in North Xinjiang. That’s not the territory of Uyghur, but Kazaks and Hui. Uyghur’s territory is in South Xinjiang.

    The “Han Chinese” you saw probably were the minority “Hui”. Both Hui and Kazaks hate the Uyghurs, and of course Uyghurs hate them too.

  87. @Godfree Roberts

    When you present facts about “whites” being marooned in East Turkmenistan, then you can surely ask for it…

  88. @Godfree Roberts

    And yet, you linger in the West…

  89. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Escher

    GDP per capita purchasing power parity is not a hidden stat. You could easily have Googled it.

    Anyway:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

    The HDI comparison was with Algeria. China is also below Brazil, Thailand, Cuba, Sri Lanka and well below Iran in HDI.

    http://hdr.undp.org/en/composite/HDI

    Meanwhile, according to Godfree, China is actually a paradisical land of freedom from want and social harmony.

    Weird.

  90. @Escher

    Xinhua knows a fifth column when it sees it… how else could they hope to undermine the U.S.?

  91. @Godfree Roberts

    Yes, we know all about those 122,000,000… every time the communists get together for their annual meet, those minorities show up in the native garbs to show them off to the disbelieving world. What a circus!

  92. @Talha

    Aren’t the Chinese and Pakistanians best buddies, Talha? Maybe the latter can talk some sense into the former…

    • Replies: @Talha
  93. @Jeff Stryker

    “Wiggers” as you and that Kali putta Thomm call them built this great country and which is being utterly destroyed by the outsiders!

  94. Yee says:

    A little more on the Uyghurs and Hui.

    As a matter of fact, when the Uyghurs setup their “East Turkistan Islamic Republic” with British help on 13th Nov. 1933, it was the Hui army who crackdown on them. The “republic” end on 28th March, 1934, lasted 4 months.

    • Replies: @Che Guava
    , @jacques sheete
  95. Talha says:
    @Reuben Kaspate

    Big time. The Muslim world’s general silence on this is the most shameful aspect of this whole situation, Lord have mercy if we are ever brought to account for our indifference or lack of effort.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Anon
  96. Che Guava says:

    As always, God-free is presenting a mix of facts and bullshit.

    Sure, as with the Chechen insurrection in Russia, the west is evil in supporting the wiggers, sorry, Uighurs.

    Your claim that they are descendants of a white imperial army stranded there is utter bullshit.

    Archaeology shows white people in the region over four thousand years ago. At the time, the only major population group in the area.

    The Uighurs are in general not descended from them (they are eastern Turks. so later invaders).

    There was a later short-lived Roman presence. They were not invaders, but defenders, China’s reach did not go so far, and it was not even considered part of the state (or states) at the time.

    You really have many points on which I agree, but you may need to learn a little (lot) more on many points, I am becoming sure that Mr. Unz keeps publishing your crap only because much of it is crap, and he is enjoying traffic and lively comment threads.

    I am amused about the kissing the ground at Yasukuni (why?), had not read of it at the time, they were not even wartime allies, at all.

    So, thank you on that point.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  97. Che Guava says:
    @Yee

    Thank you for that point of detail.

    It is interesting.

  98. J says: • Website

    Uyghurs living in China are descendants of a white imperialist army marooned there

    Which European Imperialist country sent an expeditionary army to the area? The English? The Russians? and they got marooned and generated the Uyghur nation? May be the Sogdians?

    • Replies: @Miggle
  99. DB Cooper says:
    @Agent76

    This clip shows that people will lie for anything, mostly money. Dalai Lama is a good example. Anyway China simply does not have a culture of destroying other people’s identity. Not that such culture does not exists.

    https://joshuaproject.net/

  100. A123 says:

    …relocated from remote villages to places where they are gainfully employed.

    It seems like “gainful employment” is code for forced labor. (1)
    _____

    What is certain is that the central Chinese government is intentionally altering the demographics of the region. You don’t obtain shifts like this from natural growth. (2)

    Uyghurs make up 46 per cent of Xinjiang’s population, according to 2010 census figures, down from 75 per cent in 1953.

    It appears that much of the change us recent, but I have not seen hard numbers to back that up. Does anyone know when the next census will occur in China?
    _____

    The key question is — How China will make de-Islamification work within their borders while simultaneously pursuing “One Belt One Road” [OBOR] policies with Muslim nations?

    The elites in those nations may wish to cooperate with China, but the Muslim main street will be outraged by China’s de-Islamification practices.

    It looks like the sealane “One Belt” to Africa (3) and South America will be the most important part of the strategy.

    _____

    (1) https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6576031/US-apparel-firm-cuts-Chinese-factory-internment-camp.html

    (2) https://www.scmp.com/news/china/policies-politics/article/1779695/chinese-forces-shot-civilians-claim-villagers

    (3) https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy-defence/article/2100729/chinese-firms-revenues-africa-could-reach-us440-billion

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  101. RI says:

    “Uyghurs living in China are descendants of the white imperialist army…”
    Is the author of this statement ignorant or simply a Great China promotor? Uyghurs are descendants fo the white people, indigenous to the area, who were pushed to the west by the more demographically agressive Han. Just like the white people in Japan – the Aina people, were pushed to extinction by Japanese.
    R

    • Replies: @Che Guava
  102. Yee says:

    Jeff Stryker,

    “YEE will concur that Uighur are Turks, to oversimplify things.”

    Uyghur are a bunch of mix-bloods or mix-tribes. The word “Uyghur” means “united”.

    It’s believed that they’re a mix of several different Turkic tribes, Khitan and Mongol, but ironically not of the Turks who moved west to Europe, since the mixing happened after those were kicked out.

    “Uyghur” first appeared in history in 12th century, 500 years after the Turks – Tang war. Of course, neither the Turks nor the other tribes were Muslims then, since Muhammad haven’t been born yet. So there’s nothing connecting them actually.

  103. Svigor says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Yeah and 95% of them are….wait for it…drum roll please…

    East Asian.

    Yeah, super-diverse China.

    The only significant exception being…wait for it…drum roll please…

    Turko-Mongols who just happen to include the aforementioned problematic terroristic Uighurs. China’s small amount of kinda-sorta genuine diversity problematic? I’m shocked…shocked I tell u!

  104. niceland says:

    The American dream didn’t survive U.S. financial elites. Will China’s dreams survive?

  105. Yee says:

    Talha,

    Shouldn’t you protest the Yankees bombing and starving your brothers in MiddleEast and Central Asia, rather than worry about Uyghurs learning work skills and language?

    Why! How come nobody protest Chinese government forcing me to learn English language at school?!

    • Replies: @Talha
  106. Svigor says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Leftists always try this shit. (Are you a Jew? IME they’re the worst, deploy this grade-school scheisse at the drop of a hat in defense of Apartheid Israel, obvious Jewish double standards)

    No, that kind of diversity isn’t good enough for a leftist. White Europe has that kind of diversity, and it’s not good enough for leftists. It doesn’t count. Europe is way more diverse than China or Israel, yet leftists call for the destruction diversification of neither.

    In other words, China is stale, white (yellow?) bread with mayo, badly in need of diversity, good and hard. That’s the leftist position. Same goes for Israel. If any of their positions were genuine it would be their position, I mean. But everything they say is a lie – impossible to violate your own principles when you don’t have any.

  107. Svigor says:
    @jilles dykstra

    I know very little about these Uyghurs.

    We know even less about the Dzungars. That’s because the Chinks exterminated them. And I don’t mean the way the Germans “exterminated” the Jews, with millions of Jews left over.

    I mean actively exterminated; wiped out; destroyed; annihilated. I mean genocide.

    Whites didn’t even do that to Amerinds, and that was first contact between early modern people of one race, and stone age people of another race; Chinks and Dzungars were far more closely related, racially and culturally, not to mention having many centuries of familiarity.

    ‘Course working people to death has never been as much of a thing for Whitey, either. Never mind creepy shit like mutilating women’s feet, which would never occur to us.

    • Replies: @anon
  108. @Che Guava

    The whites in the Tarim basin were apparently Indo-Europeans and they died out.

    • Replies: @Ender
  109. Svigor says:

    Shit, the Chinks exterminated the Dzungars in the 18th century. God knows how many peoples they exterminated who are now lost to history, without Europeans around to recoil in horror at the east Asian propensity for mass murder, record the events.

    P.S., don’t get me wrong; couldn’t have happened to a nicer bunch:

    The Dzungars were a confederation of several Tibetan Buddhist Oirat Mongols tribes that emerged suddenly in the early 17th century. The Dzungar Khanate was the last great nomadic empire in Asia.

    I wholeheartedly approve the genocide of nomadic empires of Mongol tribes.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  110. Talha says:
    @Yee

    Shouldn’t you protest the Yankees bombing and starving your brothers in MiddleEast

    Sure, but I don’t know why the option is an “either/or” mutually exclusive choice.

    rather than worry about Uyghurs learning work skills and language?

    Look, we’re both intelligent people here; I’m hardly worried about them learning work and language skills. I’m worried about the stuff reported here:
    https://www.vox.com/2018/8/15/17684226/uighur-china-camps-united-nations

    Now I don’t personally trust a bunch of stuff coming out of Washington, but I can’t see why China couldn’t let journalists into and interview freely any of Uighurs in these camps if that’s all that’s happening there. Look, I’m not singling out China, this kind of stuff happens in Muslim countries too, where people disappear and get tortured. I’m not asking from China anymore than what I’d like to see happen in the Muslim world – open up these detention camps for scrutiny.

    Maybe many Han Chinese are cool with this, but the idea of being forced to attend “re-education camps” run by a massive bureaucratic security-state apparatus for wrong political or religious beliefs scares the hell out of Westerners (especially red-blooded Americans) for good reason. They are trying to prevent that from happening here.

    Peace.

  111. Svigor says:

    LOL, turns out the Dzungars oppressed the Wiggers, and the Wiggers helped the Chinks exterminate the Dzungars.

    And now the Chinks are repaying the debt by destroying the Wiggers.

    So much for the author’s implication that the Wiggers have always been an enemy of China. Actually, if you consider the Dzungars would-be invaders of China, which I think isn’t a stretch, then the author’s statement that the Wiggers have sided with every invader of China is an out-and-out falsehood.

    Khoja Emin alliance with Qing

    The Dzungars had conquered and subjugated the Uyghurs during the Dzungar conquest of Altishahr, after being invited by the Afaqi Khoja to invade. Heavy taxes were imposed upon the Uyghurs by the Dzungars, with women and refreshments provided by the Uyghurs to the tax collectors. Periodically, Uyghur women were gang raped by the tax collectors when the amount of tax was not satisfactory.[29]

    Anti-Dzungar Uyghur rebels from the Turfan and Hami oases submitted to Qing rule as vassals and requested Qing help for overthrowing Dzungar rule. Uyghur leaders like Emin Khoja 額敏和卓 were granted titles within the Qing nobility, and these Uyghurs helped supply the Qing military forces during the anti-Dzungar campaign.[30][31][32] The Qing employed Khoja Emin in its campaign against the Dzungars and used him as an intermediary with Muslims from the Tarim Basin, to inform them that the Qing only sought to kill Oirats (Dzungars), and that they would leave the Muslims alone. To convince them to kill the Dzungars themselves and side with the Qing, since the Qing noted the Muslims’ resentment of their former Dzungar rulers at the hands of Tsewang Araptan.[33]

  112. Yee says:

    Che Guava,

    “Your claim that they are descendants of a white imperial army stranded there is utter bullshit.”

    The ancient Turks had an ever expanding territory, so it’s not wrong to call them “imperial”. They were nomads, so they all were soldiers as well.

    And of course they did the “imperial army” thing again after moving west, so you had the Ottoman.

    • Agree: Che Guava, Vidi
    • Replies: @Che Guava
  113. Che Guava says:

    It seems to be an idea put about the CPC. I have a friendly Chinese neighbour, he came out with the same line re. his last girlfriend (‘she is not really Chinese, she is european, from western China’).

    She did not look at all european.

    As an incidental, they have now broken up, but I have no reason to doubt his stated reason, he is an honest man: she was demanding he buy a house in Japan.

    God-free is full of crap, I can understand a neo-Maoist, but cannot understand a pro-CPC, follow the line anywhere.

    In part of the area that is now Xinjiang, from five (or much earlier) to three (or much later) millinia ago, the population was phenotypically european, and the cultural level quite high, elaborate burials, good decorative works. There are no written records AFAIK. The archaeology is only recent.

    A little like the early Danube culture.

    Turkic peoples swept through and destroyed it.
    Of course, much rape, so a few of the population of now have green or grey or blue eyes now, as Turks of now, thanks to their progressive rape of the eastern Romans.

    Much later, there were Roman forts (from the eastern empire), likely also accompanying the spread of Nestorianism.

    Those withdrew, but were there for some time, and were only for defence, I am sure the populations they were protecting had to feed them, equally, they were protected.

    On that part, there has been little research.

    • Replies: @Doogie
    , @Doogie
  114. Thomm says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    That is why the definition of ‘wigger’ changed in 1994 (due to the ‘gold watch’ segment in Pulp Fiction).

    It used to be : Whites who behave like blacks because they admire blacks.
    It is now : Whites who behave like blacks unwittingly, even though they hate blacks.

    That is why White Trashionalists are now Wiggers as well.

  115. padre says:
    @anon

    How very different from the USA, GB and all other western “knights in shining armor”!

  116. Che Guava says:
    @Talha

    Well,

    The supposedly nice model of a majority Moslem nation, Malaysia, has always run religious police in those states with Islam as the head of the constitution, now also those where it is not, also pushes into Malacca, Sabah, and Sarawak.

    Also runs concentration/indoctrination prison camps for anyone wanting to leave.

    Would suppose you are thinking that is a great thing, since you are a Muslim apologist at any cost. So, explain how the Chinese learning centres are less bad than the Malaysian reprogramming centres?

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Anonymous
    , @Anonymous
  117. @Talha

    I can’t see why China couldn’t let journalists into and interview freely any of Uighurs in these camps if that’s all that’s happening there.

    Today’s objective journalists.

    Belgian tv I consider, from the channels I can see, by far the most objective.
    There is a Belgian reporter, Rudi Frankx, specialised in human misery.
    I have no doubt that what he shows is true.
    However, I’m irritated regularly because he shows just one side of the medal.
    Hardly ever there is any background, why does this misery exist, why is nothing done about it.

    Sometimes I understand why authorities do nothing, this was a flooding case.
    The country was very poor, one saw healthy young men refusing to do anything unless they were paid.

    In the Uighur case, as I stated I hardly know anything about it, will these objective investigative journalists explain how (possibly, just a suspicion) Muslim ideology prevents their assimilation into Chinese society ?
    I’m pretty sure they will not, China not adhering to the universal human rights dictated by the west will be the focus of attention.

    • Replies: @Talha
  118. Talha says:
    @Svigor

    Chinese political history is very, very bloody – for instance the Three Kingdoms era or the more recent Taiping Rebellion. The amount of loss of life is staggering compared to other parts of the world – it is literally record-setting (until the 20th Century when European continental wars take the gold). Revolts and insurrections were put down with extreme prejudice even within ethnic Chinese populations, it is hardly surprising they would have nearly wiped out a non-Han Chinese population.

    Take-away lesson; do not revolt in China figure out some other way to get things done.

    Peace.

  119. denk says:
    @onebornfree

    [Your ranting comments might have greater impact if you made an effort to improve your English usage and also avoided your own personal acronyms/slang/insults such as “fukus” that is probably unknown to 99% of English-language readers.]

    ‘- but US is making rapid “progress” towards the supposed Chinese “ideal”, mark my words’

    fukus has 700 foreign bases, China 1

    fukus has waged 300 wars of aggression since ww2 , China 0

    fukus has engineered 60 coups since ww2, China 0

    fukus has committed 50 political assassinations since ww2, China 0

    fukus offense budget dwarfs the next 12 big spenders combined, while China’s rail road build up exceeds the rest of world’s combined.

    In a nutshell,
    China builds, fukus destroys.

    HOney, there aint no ‘ideal ‘ model in this world,
    I guess China is just being normal, while fukus is simply pervert.

    Wake me up when fukus become at least half decent, in another three century perhaps ?

    • Replies: @denk
    , @Svigor
  120. Agent76 says:
    @DB Cooper

    Just obey or die is all!

    20 SEPTEMBER 2010 Mao’s Great Famine: the History of China’s Most Devastating Catastrophe (1958-62)

    https://www.newstatesman.com/books/2010/09/mao-china-famine-western

    • Replies: @denk
  121. denk says:
    @DFH

    Honey,

    Did CIA/NED/.NSA..ask your permission to pay 12M bucks [your tax monies] each for 17 Uighurs ‘freedom fighters’ to go for RnR in Palau ?

    ‘I’ll take two of them for $22 millions. I’ll accommodate them in my garage and I’ll cook chip pea and roti everyday as long as they alive.

    Gee! 200 Millions for 17 Uyghurs terrorists. I don’t think 200 millions dollar will be full stop in here.
    The Government is spending huge amount money on these 17 Uyghurs when many of American peoples are homeless and without foods. I have no doubt US will bankrupt one day if the Government is spending in God speed.’

    http://web.archive.org/web/20090613043830/http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/06/us-and-palau-wrangling-over-gitmo-transfer-details-including.html

  122. @Svigor

    In case you want to distrust nearly all historians and history books I can strongly recommend
    Emmanuel Bern, ‘Les impostures de l’Histoire’, 1959 Paris

    The author of the following book spent his whole life studying the Huns
    Otto J.Maenchen-Helfen, ‘The World of the Huns, Studies in their History and Culture’, Berkeley 1973
    It is amazing how little we know.

    You approve on genocides, on what is your approval based ?
    Stories written say 1500 years ago, copied god knows how many times, with the changes the copyïst introduced.

    • Replies: @Svigor
  123. denk says:
    @Svigor

    * I’d much rather live in a corrupt, white-run, hard-authoritarian state with an economy centered around thieving than in the Judenreich we have now.*

    Moron,
    YOu already live in paradise.

    If BLOOD FOR OIL, ECONOMIC HITMEN isnt the highest form of corruption and banditry, what else is ???

  124. Che Guava says:
    @Yee

    I can see, that you would, as god-free, write a lie, there is no connection between that old (and from all evidence, peaceful) culture and Turkic culture, that you would try to imply what you do, very cheap.

    Also seeing that you have no sincerity, or no knowledge. Also see that your lie, as god-free’s, is a recent CPC concoction, as saying elsewhere, chinese neighbour saying it about his clearly east-asian gf.. it is clear that the CPC has gone beyond wading in pools of national-socialism, to wallowing in them.

  125. Talha says:
    @Che Guava

    Also runs concentration/indoctrination prison camps for anyone wanting to leave.

    Do you have proof of this?

    Would suppose you are thinking that is a great thing

    No, I don’t support forced indoctrination camps, even of Islam. Islam doctrine should NOT be forced upon non-Muslims.

    So, explain how the Chinese learning centres are less bad than the Malaysian reprogramming centres?

    If what you are saying is true and Malaysian authorities are rounding up non-Muslim minorities to be forcibly taught Islamic doctrine in “re-education” camps, then it is the same (especially if it includes torture) and should be shut down.

    Again, some links to reliable sources would be welcome.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @pensword
  126. peterAUS says:
    @Tyrion 2

    Godfrey’s kow-towing will not get him the job he wants. He needs to learn how to mix criticism with his slavish praise in order to make the praise seem earned. That is if there is hope for the Chinese, only madmen bask in this level of sycophancy

    Pretty much.
    “Slavish praise” and “sycophancy”, in particular.

    The (resident) “inner party” drones don’t even get it’s not even about, in this case, whether Beijing treatment of Uighur is morally correct, even efficient in suppressing separatists.

    It’s about “1984” level of doublethink and doublespeak.

    Now China has begun undoing the toxic brainwashing of ordinary Uyghurs….

    “undoing”

    More than 400,000 have been relocated from remote villages to places where they are gainfully employed.

    “relocated”.

    Neighborhood religious institutes have been set up to educate citizens on the perils of religious extremism (these community centres…

    “community centres”.

    Plus blatant lying:

    …Uyghurs living in China are descendants of a white imperialist army marooned there and they have sided with every invader of China….

    The man has to do his job. That’s fine.
    The language used has to be approved by the masters. That’s fine, too.

    That a lot of people buy that crude propaganda is interesting. Not surprising, just interesting.

    • LOL: Tyrion 2
  127. peterAUS says:
    @Sergey Krieger

    In case of Uighurs Islam is most probably just a vehicle f their natural hatred towards occupiers who Chinese are, who also brought great number of han to Xinjiang to perpetuate occupation.

    Pretty much.

  128. Anon[131] • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    It isn’t really Muslims vs non-Muslims. In the last big riot, most of the victims were Hui, killed by Uyghurs. Although both groups Muslims, they aren’t fond of each other.

    Besides Uyghurs, there are other 46 ethnic groups in XinJiang.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Seraphim
  129. Talha says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Today’s objective journalists. Belgian tv I consider, from the channels I can see, by far the most objective.

    Yes, I’d like the journalists to come from more neutral nations that aren’t lapdogs of Anglo-Zionist oriented governments. Iceland? Whether parts of Europe or even South America, etc.

    I’d love John Pilger to take a crack at it – he is getting old though.

    Muslim ideology prevents their assimilation into Chinese society? I’m pretty sure they will not…

    Depends on the definitions of assimilation. The Hui are ethnic and cultural Chinese who are Muslim. But if one expects Muslims to act just like non-Muslims around them – not going to happen.

    China not adhering to the universal human rights dictated by the west will be the focus of attention

    Likely. I don’t expect China to adhere to Western norms, but it isn’t much asking for transparency – just be honest and open about what’s going on. I mean Iran hangs people guilty of sodomy publicly and declares it in the announcement before execution – I think they hung 3 guys in 2011 or something. If you are torturing people for religious beliefs or cultural practices you want eradicated, just have the balls to come out and say you are.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Anon
  130. Truth says:
    @Svigor

    Let’s vote on whether the Earth orbits the Sun next.

    -1 here.

  131. Che Guava says:
    @jacques sheete

    My post 99 on this thread was meant as a reply to you on this Jacques, but as always, lost the reply connection because not posted within 30 seconds.

  132. Anonymous [AKA "Frau HausaMaus"] says:
    @Escher

    Every major university in China has opened a Jewish Studies program in the last 10 years. I think that they are very interested in learning about how Jews have undermined and subverted Western Civilization, and how they are planning to bring about White genocide. Also, Russian Communist Jews were the financial backing and organizers behind Mao and the Chinese Communist Party. They hand picked, prepared, and managed Mao and held key positions in the CCP, and the PLA, before, during, and after the revolution.

    • Replies: @denk
    , @denk
  133. denk says:
    @denk

    Ron

    Some people has aptitude for Math,

    Others have aptitude for language.

    Dun think I can improve my English any further, its already the limit, especially at my age.
    hehe

    fukus has been in circulation for at least more than a decade in alternate media AFAIK.
    As for insult, for the kind of shit ukus have been doing, I’d say it fits the bill.
    Surely not as offensive as some of the malicious languages used by the oppositions.

    Thank you for your hospitality so far.

    [This is an alternative media website and as far as I can tell, not a single commenter ever uses “fukus” except for you. Therefore, a considerable fraction of the readers probably don’t have a clue what you’re saying and think you’re speaking in strange gibberish. Spouting gibberish to people seems a great waste of your time.]

    • Replies: @Nonny
    , @Miggle
    , @Anon
  134. Anonymous[362] • Disclaimer says:
    @Escher

    Also, Singapore was built by descendants of illiterate peasant immigrants from Fujian, not exactly a selected group

    It’s a selected group by virtue of the fact that they had the initiative to emigrate.

    Also illiteracy is probably not as negative an indicator when one’s language has thousands of characters, instead of 26.

  135. Anonymous[362] • Disclaimer says:
    @A123

    The key question is — How China will make de-Islamification work within their borders while simultaneously pursuing “One Belt One Road” [OBOR] policies with Muslim nations?

    By controlling the flow of information. By restricting communications and travel. By having state news and an army of online Godfrees whitewash everything.

    Reality be damned, the 21st century is all about who controls the flow of information.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  136. Anonymous[362] • Disclaimer says:
    @Che Guava

    Also runs concentration/indoctrination prison camps for anyone wanting to leave

    I’ve never heard anything like this. It’s not even legally possible for Malaysians to leave islam anyway, so by what mechanisms could anyone even try?

  137. Che Guava says:

    Talha,

    It is common knowledge to anyone who has lived in that part of the world. I do not have to feed you the links, you should (and most likely do) already know. It is real, easy to find with a few search terms. Sharia (particularly the prohibition on
    changing your mind, a.k.a. apostasy)
    is only supposed to apply to the ethnic malay populations of the western peninsula states, excluding Malacca and Penang. I think there was another exception, but that was probably Singapore, they left.

    However, anybody who has been a moslem and converted to another religion or grown to dislike religion in general, can, in theory, get thrown into the Islamic re-education camps.

    Talha, if you truly didn’t know before, you must find the concept most inspiring. Wouldn’t it be great from your PoV?

    One of the first acts of the post-indedendence govt. was to decree all of the animist jungle and forest dwelling people, the true natives of the land in the peninsula, and quite distinct from coastal malay populations, to be forcibly converted to Islam. That was before I was born, but is a matter of fact.

    East Malaysia, Sabah and Sarawak, also without an Islam clause in the state constitutions, but much pressure there, too.

    Also late here, so closing there.

    • Replies: @Talha
  138. @peterAUS

    Since the government controls ALL facts that get out of the province it makes it extremely difficult if not impossible to have such a debate. Or even to have any kind of an informed opinion.

    We may have inverse totalitarianism in America but the Chinese have the real thing.

    I see something like this and I can only shrug. It could easily be CIA propaganda but it sure does appear to be ugly:

    Detention Camp Construction is Booming in Xinjiang

    https://medium.com/@shawnwzhang/detention-camp-construction-is-booming-in-xinjiang-a2525044c6b1

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Joe Wong
    , @JackGarbo
  139. Eagle Eye says:

    Let’s not forget that then Secretary of State Colin Powell threw the Xinjiang Uighurs under the bus as “terrorists” post-9/11, apparently as part of some deal with China.

  140. Wow, there’s apologia, and then there’s this delusional nonsense.

    Look, let me make something clear: I really don’t care about what China does to the Uighurs. As far as I’m concerned, it’s an internal Chinese issue, and none of the West’s business. After all, people who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.

    That said, anyone who tries to morally sanction what China is doing in Xinjiang is either a shill or a fool. You sound no better than apologists for British imperialism, and every colonial apologist says something to the effect of “we’re saving these benighted savages from themselves and bringing them development!”

    In fact, when I was taking a class on Israel and the world in college – which was taught by a rabid Zionist who had no business teaching any class on the Middle East – she contended that Israel’s Palestinian population was the Arab world’s “royalty,” on account that they lived in a wealthy country such as Israel. Never mind that Palestinians are second-class citizens, that they’ve been robbed of self-determination, and that they’re subjected to daily humiliation. GDP! Development! Needless to say, most Palestinians don’t share that professor’s rosy sentiments.

    It should go without saying that bringing people modern technology and infrastructure does not justify stripping them of dignity and ruling them with an iron fist.

    Beyond that, some of your assertions are just downright fatuous:

    Uyghurs living in China are descendants of a white imperialist army marooned there

    Source, please. This kind of absurd claim would put a middle school history student to shame.

    A Chinese friend, Xiao Zhang, writes, “I have a friend who just came back from Xinjiang and he has visited some of the reeducation camps and talked with people there. And he told me that Uighurs really received vocational education inside, not kidding, and cannot get out until completion of courses. The government in Xinjiang simply kept all the potential “trouble makers” they could find in detention based on the reports they received from various sources, among which reports from communites make up a major part. The government has known for years that poor-educated, impoverished and umployed people are more easily to be radicalized. Now they take actions to ensure they won’t make troubles. This is another example of Chinese style of government behaviour, just like one-child policy. You may hold good intentions, but you cannot force people to be good”.

    What a credible source. I’m sure we can trust the word of a “Chinese friend,” who isn’t at all nationalistic or biased. Here are some better sources:

    http://www.chinafile.com/reporting-opinion/postcard/million-citizens-occupy-uighur-homes-xinjiang

    https://palladiummag.com/2018/11/29/a-week-in-xinjiangs-absolute-surveillance-state/

    You need to get beyond your binary thinking, and realize that just because the US is bad doesn’t mean China is good. You also need to recognize that this isn’t the Cold War anymore, and stop sounding like today’s equivalent of an apologist for Stalin’s Soviet Union. Being a tankie is a not a good look, just FYI.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Godfree Roberts
  141. Svigor says:
    @denk

    China hasn’t often gone beyond “her natural borders” in search of people to conquer because she’s always had millions of people to slaughter within “her natural borders.” E.g., Taiping Rebellion, 20 to 30 million killed.

    Like I said, China’s whole thing is about being terrified of her own shadow. She’s always too busy holding herself together to try expanding.

    That’s what happens when a country is just too big, like China. China would be better off as several countries.

    Like I said, Americans didn’t exterminate a whole people. Our entire record of atrocities is nothing compared with just one Chinese atrocity, the genocide of the Dzungars.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
    , @denk
  142. Svigor says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Dude the Mongols murdered like 10% of the world population. They should’ve been genocided long ago, but the Chinks were too stupid or soft to do what needed doing. Anyone who gets the better of the Mongols gets a cheer from me.

  143. Anon[131] • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    The Hui are ethnic and cultural Chinese who are Muslim.

    Many Hui people don’t think they are ethnic and cultural Chinese.

    If you are torturing people for religious beliefs or cultural practices you want eradicated, just have the balls to come out and say you are.

    You’re implying something. What is your source? Is Guantanamo Bay camp used to imprison and torture terrorists or Muslims? Are they there because they are Muslims or because they are terrorists?

    • Replies: @Talha
  144. @DB Cooper

    If chinaman had not invaded Tibet, the Dali Lana would not have been needing money, after all, he had been nearest to the high priest-king of those ancient people.

    • Replies: @DB Cooper
  145. Anon[131] • Disclaimer says:
    @Miggle

    The Chinese police are unarmed? Incredible! But I believe you.

    More and more Chinese police are armed now. Still many patrols you see in the street are not.

  146. DB Cooper says:
    @Reuben Kaspate

    China didn’t invade Tibet, Britain did. And later India. The Dalai Lama is traitorous to the Tibetan people.

    • Replies: @Nonny
    , @Reuben Kaspate
  147. Che Guava says:
    @RI

    This is very tiresome, the Uighur are not ‘white people’, neither are the Ainu in Japan (old photos are available, they look a little like American Indians, not like Uighurs), I have one friend that I am pretty sure is Ainu (partly because of where she comes from), and doesn’t look very Japanese, never asked her directly, but she certainly does not look European, either.

    It is interesting that the CPC of now is encouraging the same kind of falsehoods as Imperial Japan over a century ago.

  148. peterAUS says:
    @simple_pseudonymic_handle

    Since the government controls ALL facts that get out of the province it makes it extremely difficult if not impossible to have such a debate.

    No.
    There are plenty of facts going out of the province and it is actually rather easy to have such debate. I just don’t see why having such a debate in the first place.
    It’s the ancient game, nothing new there. All is clear …for those wanting to see it, that is.

    Or even to have any kind of an informed opinion.

    Hehe….yeah….especially about “education camps” and such. I guess it depends on which side in this game one is. Or, Beijing and its shills definitely want people to have that attitude. I mean..haha…they don’t. They are well informed and know exactly why, what and how.
    They are doing it as we speak.

    The article is load of bullshit and most of commentators are either drones or hypocrites. No problem with the later. That’s the world we live in. The former is…interesting.

    A quote from some comment above sums all this nonsense quite well:

    If you are torturing people for religious beliefs or cultural practices you want eradicated, just have the balls to come out and say you are.

    I wouldn’t even say “balls”. Just a common honesty and decency. Hahahaha….and that is hilarious. TPTBs and majority of people having those traits I mean. Does sound idiotic.

    This overwhelming need to be a “good guy” while playing the ancient game is ….in this era….surreal.

  149. Talha says:
    @Anon

    It isn’t really Muslims vs non-Muslims.

    Agreed – it’s not so simple. China is more accommodating to the Hui (ethnic Han Muslims); not too long ago they were able to bring the government to the table about a proposed mosque demolition with a large protest:
    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/08/chinese-muslims-protest-planned-mosque-demolition-180810104049722.html

    And there is a concern about separatism and terrorism – and if you look at my first post, I acknowledge these as valid. However, my specific points are about the methodology and it not being targeted enough as well as transparency. Again, as I said, I also criticize Muslim governments for similar issues; methodology, being indiscriminate and lack of transparency when dealing with separatism and terrorism.

    Peace.

  150. Joe Wong says:
    @peterAUS

    Since the White, particular the Anglo, spread around the world, the world has never been in peace. The West (Europeans and their offshoots like the American, Aussie, etc.) is where is now, because of those hundreds of millions of people all over the world who were robbed and murdered, those who become victims of their very madness of colonialism and orientalism, of the crusades and the slave and Opium trades. Cathedrals and palaces, museums and theatres, train stations – all had been constructed on horrid foundations of bones and blood, and amalgamated by tears.

    The West squandered all the wealth they obtained thru stealing, looting and murdering hundreds of millions of people all over the world in the scrabbling of a dog-eat-dog play rough over the monopoly to plunder the rest of the world through two World Wars, one on the edge of Armageddon, and on the verge of another Armageddon. It proves the West is incapable of bringing peace and prosperity to the mankind because of their flawed culture, civilization and religion. The chaos and suffering of the world in the last few hundreds of years under the dominance the West proves they are a failure.

    Human beings deserve better, we need to depart from the chaotic and harmful world order and path established by the moronic West. China proposed a new way of life, a win-win approach for the well-being of mankind like Belt-Road-Initiative to build and trade the world into peace, harmony and prosperity.

    The Five Eyes is the obstacle for achieving such refreshing winner for all initiative. Until the Five Eyes can be tamed such dream is beyond reach. The world is at crossroad of chaos and misery vs peace and prosperity, fail to rein in the Five Eyes is to chose chaos and misery over peace and prosperity.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  151. peterAUS says:
    @Bay Area Guy

    Good comment.
    Especially:

    Wow, there’s apologia, and then there’s this delusional nonsense.

    Look, let me make something clear: I really don’t care about what China does to the Uighurs. As far as I’m concerned, it’s an internal Chinese issue, and none of the West’s business. After all, people who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.

    That said, anyone who tries to morally sanction what China is doing in Xinjiang is either a shill or a fool.

    Now, here is WHY I disagree with you:
    I don’t mind Beijing methods at all. In fact, I do believe those methods are good, meaning, efficient. Or, the most efficient in delivering what the regime wants.
    Other options are simply worse:
    Mass genocide of the population.
    Ethnic cleansing of all that population away.
    Hard gulags.

    I …hehe…have a feeling that most of people here simply don’t get the core issue:
    The Uyghurs do not want to live under Beijing rule. No….matter…..what.
    All they want is independence as first step and then joining their Muslim brothers on the Western side of the border.
    I mean…haha..it’s so simple and obvious. Nothing more…nothing less.
    No matter what Beijing gives them…nothing will work.

    So…what Beijing can do today? As it is doing now. No problem.
    BUT…the problem is when you have idiots (not paid shills and hypocrites, they are O.K.) calling oppression something else.
    The doublespeak. Worse…the doublethink.

    It should go without saying that bringing people modern technology and infrastructure does not justify stripping them of dignity and ruling them with an iron fist.

    Beyond that, some of your assertions are just downright fatuous:

    Uyghurs living in China are descendants of a white imperialist army marooned there

    And, of course:

    You need to get beyond your binary thinking, and realize that just because the US is bad doesn’t mean China is good.

    Or…the Empire and Power are what they are.
    Secession thing was fixed in USA we know how.
    China is fixing it as we speak. You can actually say it’s much better. But, then, the world has moved on.
    You can’t have “Sherman march” in this province today.

  152. Talha says:
    @Che Guava

    It is common knowledge to anyone who has lived in that part of the world.

    Look, the way this works is; if you make an accusation, you are supposed to supply the evidence. If you don’t care to, that’s fine – anyone can believe the Malaysian government is running Islamic indoctrination detention centers based on your say so. I’d like some proof – not much to ask.

    can, in theory, get thrown into the Islamic re-education camps.

    Proof of existence, please. Reliable sources would be nice. If you’re feeling lazy, at least throw in a link or two from jihadwatch or something.

    One of the first acts of the post-indedendence govt. was to decree all of the animist jungle and forest dwelling people, the true natives of the land in the peninsula, and quite distinct from coastal malay populations, to be forcibly converted to Islam.

    Look, again, if you are saying there is an official and ongoing program of forcibly converting the Orang Asli in place by the Malaysian government since before you were born, I’d like to also see the proof for this. The Malaysian Federal Constitution states (in Article 12.3):
    “No person shall be required to receive instruction in or to take part in any ceremony or act of worship of a religion other than his own.”
    http://www.agc.gov.my/agcportal/uploads/files/Publications/FC/Federal%20Consti%20(BI%20text).pdf

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Reuben Kaspate
  153. Nonny says:
    @denk

    Barbaric Franks, Ukky islanders, and Uncle Shmuel, right?

  154. mike k says:

    It is interesting how many commenters here have strong opinions about things they really have little knowledge about. That seems to be pretty much the common practice today. The truth about anything is harder to come by in these days of deteriorating honesty.

    • Agree: Nonny
    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  155. Talha says:
    @Anon

    Many Hui people don’t think they are ethnic and cultural Chinese.

    What exactly do they think they are then? I’ve know Hui Muslims throughout my life (at least since my UCLA days), they certainly considered themselves ethnic and culturally Chinese and called themselves Chinese, spoke Chinese, ate Chinese food, etc. I obviously can’t say ALL Hui do, but if they don’t, then what are they?

    What is your source?

    Read specifically the sections on religious restrictions:
    https://www.hrw.org/report/2018/09/09/eradicating-ideological-viruses/chinas-campaign-repression-against-xinjiangs#

    https://www.amnesty.org/download/Documents/ASA1791132018ENGLISH.PDF

    Is Guantanamo Bay camp used to imprison and torture terrorists or Muslims?

    I’m not sure whether you are being serious here. Guantanamo Bay never housed more than 800 detainees acquired in a war zone. How is that comparable to the estimated couple of million that are processed through these camps?

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
    , @Anon
    , @Vidi
  156. Nonny says:
    @DB Cooper

    Tibet was culturally distinct from China. There are still llamas in the independent Mongolia.

    • Replies: @DB Cooper
  157. peterAUS says:
    @Joe Wong

    China proposed a new way of life, a win-win approach for the well-being of mankind like Belt-Road-Initiative to build and trade the world into peace, harmony and prosperity.

    If trolling, nice.
    If true belief, understandable. Beats pills, alcohol and plenty of current organized religion. Lucky you.

    As for this:

    The Five Eyes is the obstacle for achieving such refreshing winner for all initiative. Until the Five Eyes can be tamed such dream is beyond reach. The world is at crossroad of chaos and misery vs peace and prosperity, fail to rein in the Five Eyes is to chose chaos and misery over peace and prosperity.

    Sounds as a plan.
    Good luck.

  158. Edwin says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Less than 10% of Chinese (c. 120 million) have passports, and not all of them have traveled abroad.

  159. DB Cooper says:
    @Nonny

    Culturally distinct does not mean it is not part of China. Mongolia was part of China before it was carved out.

    • Replies: @Reuben Kaspate
    , @Miggle
  160. I like the ostrich who doesn’t know that all these conflicts, Xinjiang, Burma, etc., are paid for and incited by the US, its proxies, and its owner. Chechnia. Bosnia. Kosovo. Georgia. The list is endless. Fomented and funded by the US et al. Sheesh. Grow up.

  161. @DB Cooper

    If one carefully peruses the faces of Tibetans, one will see clearly enough that those are Mongolian faces and not Han Chinese… Mongol is a physically hardy race, whereas the Han maybe bookworms but infinitely a weaker breed; only the borrowed technological knowhow by the Han may save him from the non-chinese Chinese, assuming the White West doesn’t bomb it into utter submission!

  162. @Edwin

    The author demands facts but fails to provide it himself… Ron Unz must not have thoroughly vetted the man before assigning him the virtual space.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  163. @DB Cooper

    And the Middle Kingdom was part of the great Khans… but yes, for now Manchuria, Tibet, Inner Mongolia and East Turkmenistan are part of China but for how long, one can never tell.

  164. @Edwin

    Yeah, I had to laugh at his comment that a “billion” Chinese have traveled abroad. Hard to say if that trumps his ridiculous claim that Uighurs are descendants of marooned white soldiers.

    Godfree, if you’re listening, just know that this kind of over-the-top propaganda tends to backfire, and if anything makes people more anti-China. You ought to read some of Jason Liu’s comments, and incorporate some more nuance into your writings.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  165. @onebornfree

    In part you say:

    “Here we have a person [article author] who is either a naive fool, or an obfuscating crook…”

    My guess is, not unlike all those who can’t get laid easily thus end up with wannabe white Chinese women, this one maybe sympathetic for similar reasons, assuming he is not in pay of the Chinese!

  166. @Jeff Stryker

    YEE will concur that Uighur are Turks, to oversimplify things.

    Thanks. I thought the author may be referring to Alexanders armies, but it appears that Uighurs preceded him. It’s a somewhat minor point but I would like to know and don’t currently have the time to look it up. I think, however, it’s significant that Godfree has answered other comments but has yet to address mine, so I wonder if he was shooting from the hip on that claim.

    Anyway, it appears that the US government has been up to its usual nefarious tricks. What’s the deal with them? I sure wish I had the answer to stopping it.

  167. Miggle says:
    @J

    And what does marooned mean? In the middle of the largest continent on Earth!

  168. Miggle says:
    @DB Cooper

    Nonny, ignore him. China was part of the Mongolian Empire. Just a part.

  169. @Miggle

    Readers interested in answering your question, ‘what other country has a democracy at least equal to China’s?’ might start here: https://www.unz.com/article/selling-democracy-to-china/.

  170. @Miggle

    Do you prefer our approach to the same problem, the Patriot Act, which deprived all of us of our civil rights?

  171. Doogie says:
    @Che Guava

    In part of the area that is now Xinjiang, from five (or much earlier) to three (or much later) millinia ago, the population was phenotypically european, and the cultural level quite high, elaborate burials, good decorative works. There are no written records AFAIK. The archaeology is only recent.

    A little like the early Danube culture.

    Turkic peoples swept through and destroyed it.
    Of course, much rape, so a few of the population of now have green or grey or blue eyes now, as Turks of now, thanks to their progressive rape of the eastern Romans.

    People in the region have majority brown eyes due to blue eyed Caucasian males mating with East Asian and South Asian females, not “rape”. The majority of Uighurs and Turks carry patrilineal haplogroups from blue eyed ancestors. Turks were diverse people and many Turkic ethnicities were majority blond/red haired and blue eyed, such as the Yenisei Kirghiz, Western Gokturks, Cumans/Kipchaks, etc.

  172. @Anonymous

    There is ZERO de-Islamification in China. Though two-thirds[1] of Chinese are atheists (in the Western sense) and one-fourth are non-religious Taoists, the Constitution guarantees freedom of worship in government-sanctioned religious organizations and the government supports seventy-four seminaries, one thousand seven hundred Tibetan monasteries, three thousand religious organizations, 85,000 religious sites and 300,000 full time Catholic, Protestant, Buddhist, Ancient Chinese, Taoist and Moslem clergy.

    What’s going on is de-terrorizing–which is what our Patriot Act was designed to do.

    [1] Gallup

    • Replies: @A123
  173. Miggle says:
    @denk

    So denk needs to explain it, and capitalize it. FUKUS is an abbreviation for France; those who Unite in worshipping their King; and something called US, which doesn’t mean we.

    Rarely seen though. A tirade repeating it a dozen times needed to explain at first use.

    • Replies: @denk
  174. @Svigor

    The genocide was perpetrated by the Manchu.

  175. @Che Guava

    My wife and I lived with the ‘hairy Ainu’ in the 1960s. I’d call them white and was astonished at our immediate bonding with them, compared to our relationship with ethnic Japanese.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  176. @Bay Area Guy

    I envy your faith in our media and government.

    It’s rare, too. According to the American Publishers Association, only 6% of us do.

    • Replies: @Bay Area Guy
  177. @Talha

    Estimated by which reliable, first person observers?

    • Replies: @Talha
  178. Anon[131] • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    I’ve know Hui Muslims throughout my life

    Hui Muslims are overall China. There are huge regional differences. There are over 11 million in China. I am sure you don’t get to meet them all in UCLA.

    How is that comparable to the estimated couple of million that are processed through these camps?

    You are not seriously thinking that those reeducation camps are like Guantanamo bay prison.

    I don’t approve Guantanamo prison nor do I approve reeducation camps. Sure, there are thousands of Uyghurs who went to the ME to fight with the ISIS. Let them. If they want to blow up some places in XinJiang, let them. If they want to randomly stab women and children, let them. Only a few hundred people died during last attack a few years ago. No, I am serious. It is better to deal with it afterward than taking this preventive ham-handed measure. Sending some of them to reeducation camps, even if the intention is good – to eradicate the Islamist extremism and to teach them some employable vocational skills, would make the CPC look like NAZI. They should know how this would play out. It really doesn’t matter what is really happening on the ground. It really doesn’t matter what facts are. You, as a Muslim, thinking that China is trying to wipe out Uyghurs as a people and their culture is proving the CPC’s effort is largely a failure.

    By they way, Han Chinese had one-child policy imposed on Han, but not on Hui or Uyghurs or any other Chinese minority. Depending on how you look at it or how you interpret it, education camps are small potato.

    • Replies: @Talha
  179. @Reuben Kaspate

    Which facts would you like me to provide?

    • Replies: @Reuben Kaspate
  180. @Yee

    Very interesting, and the date makes it especially so. Please tell us more!

  181. @Bay Area Guy

    A record high of 130 million Chinese tourists travel abroad in 2017 …
    en.people.cn/n3/2018/0305/c90000-9433076.html
    Mar 5, 2018 – Japan embraces huge influx of Chinese tourists during the Spring Festival vacation on February 13, 2018.

    In the first year of the new millennium, a modest 10.5m overseas trips were made by Chinese residents. Fast forward to 2017 and the figure was 145m – an astounding increase of 1,380 per cent.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/comment/rise-of-the-chinese-tourist/

    • Replies: @Bay Area Guy
  182. @jacques sheete

    What is your unanswered question?

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  183. A123 says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    I will concede that you are 1/2 right.

    You cannot have Islamic Terrorism without Violent Muslims. So, “de-terrorizing” is a good synonym for “de-Islamification”. You cannot have one without the other.

    And, you are correct that The Patriot Act is not stopping terror. Violent Muslims are still getting into the U.S. to carry out Islamic Terrorist acts.

    One wonders how the U.S. will carry out the necessary “de-Terrorizing / de-Islamification” program to protect U.S. Citizens. Better judges and Securing the Border are good places to start. Hopefully we can send Muslims home rather than condemning them to Chinese style camps. It would be more humane, but difficult to carry out.

  184. Doogie says:
    @Che Guava

    Another thing – Eastern Romans didn’t have blue eyes!!! If anything the Turks were more blue eyed than them!

    • Replies: @Vidi
  185. Talha says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Please read the note in the HRW report I linked to. It also states:
    “Zenz estimated the detainee number by extrapolating from a leaked Xinjiang police report, released by a Turkish TV station run by Uyghur exiles, as well as from reports by Radio Free Asia. CHRD and ERI made the estimate by extrapolating the percentages of people detained in villages as reported by dozens of Uyghur villagers in Kashgar Prefecture during interviews with CHRD.”

    Now look, I have been fairly plain about my view – I really, really hope this is not true. I have no interest in having a couple million of my brothers in faith being forced into these camps just so I can say “I told you so” to some guy on the internet. I hope to God those numbers are wrong.

    However, I’d like the Chinese to open up these places to external scrutiny to set the record straight – and, once again, I want the same with detention centers across the Muslim world that have been pointed out by organizations like HRW as being violators of human rights. I don’t give much credence to what the US government says, but I do pay attention to organizations like Amnesty International and HRW. They have far more credibility than the Chinese government as far as I’m concerned. If you take the Chinese government’s word over them, that’s fine with me.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Biff
    , @Godfree Roberts
  186. @mike k

    Already used up the “Agree” button.

    The Americans with their tutus in a twist about China ought to think about cleaning their own toilets first. Don’t we have enough of our own problems and too few answers right here at home?

    • Replies: @Svigor
  187. Svigor says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    What happened to “China is Diverse”? Now only Han are Chinese? The dynasty was Manchu. The blade was largely wielded by other Chinese.

    A very diverse affair.

    Not that I buy the implied bright line between Han and Manchu.

    • Replies: @denk
  188. @Godfree Roberts

    What is your unanswered question?

    I was wondering if you could be a bit more specific here,

    Uyghurs living in China are descendants of a white imperialist army marooned there

    BTW, thanks for the article. I had no idea that Uncle Sucker has been fomenting trouble there too. Disgusting behavior as usual.

  189. Svigor says:
    @jacques sheete

    Agreed. I don’t even think about China until I see an article like this and then all the nonsense it contains.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  190. Talha says:
    @Anon

    There are huge regional differences.

    If you have better knowledge on this subject about how Hui Muslims do not view themselves as Chinese, then I defer to you. However, it does not mesh with anything I’ve come across in real life or read about.

    You are not seriously thinking that those reeducation camps are like Guantanamo bay prison.

    No, they seem less restrictive (and US officials admitted waterboarding some in front of Congress), but they are also massive compared to Guantanamo. We know who is still in Guantanamo (40 men) and where they come from and why they are there:
    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/guantanamo/detainees/current

    Is the Chinese government willing to release a list of men in these camps and the reason why they are there? Did they actually mention to someone that they thought Daesh was a good organization and they were thinking about joining or was the beard too long? Did they purchase an illegal weapon or did they happen to greet another guy with ‘assalaamu alaikum’?

    I don’t approve Guantanamo prison nor do I approve reeducation camps.

    Good, agreed.

    It really doesn’t matter what facts are.

    It absolutely matters what the facts are; which is why I have been clear on this thread about two things:
    1) China opening up the camps for external scrutiny
    2) I hope #1 leads to proving that the claims are not true

    I would like the facts figured out by some neutral, external parties and don’t simply want to rely on the Chinese government’s statements. Why is this a problem?

    By they way, Han Chinese had one-child policy imposed on Han, but not on Hui or Uyghurs or any other Chinese minority.

    Yeah…and? If anything this proves the worries people have; if the Chinese government is willing to have these kinds of invasive policies on its own ethnic majority, why would it think twice about detaining a million or so non-Han in detention and re-education camps?

    Depending on how you look at it or how you interpret it, education camps are small potato.

    Not if you are being forced to attend. But yes, I thank God, because – having read history – I completely aware of what the post-Mao Chinese state is capable of, this is nothing compared to what they could pull off.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  191. Joe Wong says:
    @SporadicMyrmidon

    No, Chinese authorities did not and will not murdering political and religious dissidents nor will do organ extraction. Those fake news were fabricated by the CIA and NED to demonize China in their new cold war against China, and spread around the world by the corporate media and NGOs in the West.

    The manufactured consent was fabricated by the Westerners in according to the imagination of their one god cult culture and mindset, it was pure toxic and wrecked.

  192. @Svigor

    I don’t even think about China …

    I don’t either, and I know nothing about it. I have my hands full with US and European history and a multitude of other things. I find this article informative and interesting though, and I’m PO’d to hear that our gubmint is messing around with those folks too. Sheesh!

    I do wish Trump would STFU about China and cut the trade war BS too, but none of that’s gonna happen. We ‘Merkins are under the boot heels of morons. Grrrrr!

  193. @Godfree Roberts

    Something about white men being marooned in the East Turkmenistan, for example… And where does the one billion Chinese travelers abroad originate?

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  194. Alden says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    The Han southern Chinese rebels were as genocidal and destructive as the imperial Manchu government.

    You’re right that the Manchu government finally won and sent the rebels fleeing overseas. The imperial government may have been Manchu but the majority of the imperial army was Han. I gather you consider that only the Han people are Chinese?

  195. @Godfree Roberts

    Manchu were not from China. They were Siberians from somewhere over the Northern Border in what is now Russia.

    Gradually they were assimilated but China was effectively invaded by Siberians who succeeded in ruling it.

  196. @Che Guava

    The Ainu don’t look like American Indians. They look Lebanese. American Indians look vaguely like Japanese and apparently tribes like Navajo and Apache are close related related to the modern-day Japanese with latest studies suggesting they left Northern Japan and migrated through the Aleutian Islands into North America until they found themselves in the Southwestern desert.

  197. @Godfree Roberts

    Japan was a case of “ethnic genocide” against Caucasians. The Japanese of today are descended from Koreans and the Ainu were the original white inhabitants from Russia.

    People forget that today Russia and Japan continue to contest some of the Northern Islands.

  198. @jacques sheete

    Tocharian mummies of the Tarim Basin were Celtic herders believed to have entered China from Russia about 4,000 years ago.

    They were not successful and died out there.

  199. Regarding the Uyghurs being descended from “a white imperatialist army that had been marooned there”, I believe that’s only partially correct. The Uyghurs were more or less invited by China to repopulate the region after the original inhabitants, the Dzungars, were genocided by the Manchu Emperor Qianlong.

  200. denk says:
    @Anonymous

    I think that they are very interested in learning about how Jews have undermined and subverted Western Civilization, and how they are planning to bring about White genocide

    lol

    BANDITS CRYING ROBBERY

    The ‘West’ led by murikka has been trying to genocide Chinese world wide since the Opium war.
    For a partial account, read my posts at
    http://www.unz.com/article/how-the-bbc-manufactured-hate/

    Tip of an iceberg.

    Can you show me one instance of China trying to genocide whites ?

    • Replies: @Reuben Kaspate
  201. denk says:
    @Miggle

    FUKUS was coined by a MOA commenter Deb is dead , more than a decade ago.

    It means fuck uk, us.
    Its very versatile, when France joined in the gang bang on Libya, it became
    fuck France, uk, US.

    I’ve actually seen it gaining popularity on many alt sites.

    BUt looks like its causing confusion here,
    may be Ron has got a point there.

  202. @Reuben Kaspate

    I’ve asked a similar question twice and it’s been asked by several others as well. He did ask what I wanted to know, but I still do not have an answer. I bet he’s scrambling to justify his claim and cannot find an answer.

    His credibility is dropping fast.

  203. Biff says:
    @Talha

    Amnesty International and HRW.

    Bought and paid for western propaganda organizations, AND worthless.

  204. @Talha

    “I’d like the Chinese to open up these places to external scrutiny to set the record straight”

    I’m sure they’d be happy to do so if the US opened its files on support of terrorism there: fair’s fair.

    • Replies: @Talha
  205. @Talha

    We think nothing of executing 1,000 people each year without trial and of incarcerating 2,000,000–also without trial.

    • Replies: @Avery
  206. @Jeff Stryker

    Perhaps it’s because they live so far north, but the Ainu don’t look like any Lebanese I’ve ever seen.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  207. @Godfree Roberts

    Their beards and noses sort of do, in my opinion.

  208. denk says:
    @Svigor

    I’ve seen lots of liars in my time but you surely take the cake.

    Back then Manchus was one of the tribes menacing Han China, it eventually conquered the middle kingdom for 200 years.

    • Replies: @Svigor
  209. Anonymous[262] • Disclaimer says:
    @Che Guava

    You see the Chinese in Malaysia are absolutely in your face about not caring much about offending Muslim sensibilities. They wear really short shorts most of the time, there are too many pork and liquor stores that cater to them, run most of the Asian “massage” parlors while trying to influence the government to do more to “liberalize”. I’d wish we be more like mainland China and assert majoritarian pressure to bring them in line. They’ve become way too emboldened of late due to the change in guard. If China can assert pressure on the muslims to bring them in line towards Communism so can we try it here.

    OTOH this pressure on China coming from the US is so hypocritical that words are not enough to describe it. At least China doesn’t go around sponsoring terrorists then using them as an excuse to “invade” and “liberate”.

  210. denk says:
    @Svigor

    Our entire record of atrocities is nothing compared with just one Chinese atrocity, the genocide of the Dzungars.

    kiddo
    Except murikka’s crimes are current and verifiable, 20M wasted since ww2 ..at least.

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/us-has-killed-more-than-20-million-people-in-37-victim-nations-since-world-war-ii/5492051

    P.S.
    To hell with China,
    So you admit that BLOOD FOR OIL, ECONOMIC HITMAN, are the highest form of corruption and banditry. ?
    Ergo,
    You’r already living in your coveted paradise/

    hehhehe

  211. denk says:
    @Agent76

    I see, still swearing by that CIA fronting outfit.

    As somebody has already pointed out, CU is so eager to smear China that it gleefully highlighted a bursting dam in Loas/Cambodia built by SK, blamed it on the chicoms.

    If CU is the best your ilks can offer, its really pathetic.

    hehehe

  212. Avery says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Above you wrote:

    {Imprisoning 2,000,000 citizens witout trial.
    Killing 2,000 citizens each year prior to arrest.}

    and

    { executing 1,000 people each year without trial and of incarcerating 2,000,000–also without trial.}

    Can you provide details as to how you arrived at those figures?

    • Replies: @Talha
  213. Utred says:
    @giraffehead

    I’m assuming he’s talking about Alexander the Great’s eastward push that ended in Afghanistan and India. He left parts of the army behind to settle and govern.

    • Replies: @giraffehead
  214. Yee says:

    Che Guava says:

    “I can see, that you would, as god-free, write a lie, there is no connection between that old (and from all evidence, peaceful) culture and Turkic culture, that you would try to imply what you do, very cheap.

    Also seeing that you have no sincerity, or no knowledge. Also see that your lie, as god-free’s, is a recent CPC concoction, as saying elsewhere, chinese neighbour saying it about his clearly east-asian gf.. it is clear that the CPC has gone beyond wading in pools of national-socialism, to wallowing in them.”

    Hey, moron, why don’t you learn some Central Asia history before spewing insults at me.

    There were countless nomad tribes between Mongolian Plateau to Plateau of Iran in history. Nomad tribes never had a “peaceful culture”, neither within themselves nor with Chinese. Why, do you think, China built the Great Wall 2000 years ago, If the tribes were peaceful?

    If you insist the winner and the conquered in tribal wars are connected, that’s your own opinion. The main tribe of the Uyghur’s ancestor “回纥”, certainly did not think they have anything to do with the Turks, because they ally with Tang emperor to fight the Turks.

    And the earliest settlers in the region the Uyghur claimed to be their ancestral land were the Tajiks. The Tajiks are still there, but driven to more remote areas by the Uyghurs.

    As for you “neighbor girlfriend” story, what does it prove? Some completely East Asian looking Chinese claim to be Jew and moved to Israel too. Also some Hui insist they’re Arab.

  215. denk says:
    @Agent76

    More stories from anglo bullhorn ?

    kiddo

    A book or vid is only as good as its sources.

    When I post a link, I always hightight the incriminating para, the smoking gun so to speak.
    You are given a chance to disprove it.

    Learn some comment etiquette,
    Dont just dump vid/links willy nilly at us,
    show the smoking gun.

    We shall judge its credibility.

  216. Yee says:

    Talha,

    LOL… You have been playing lord of the world a little too long, I’m afraid…

    Unless China lose a war, there will be no inspection by foreigners in China.

    Or perhaps you believe the US government will allow, say, Chinese organized inspection of your police if China says we are concern that the US police is shooting people on the street? I would have like a Chinese inspection of the CIA… Plenty of people say they killed JFK and blew up the World Trade Center, deadly serious crimes those are.

    • Agree: Biff
    • Replies: @Talha
  217. @Godfree Roberts

    That’s rather disingenuous and I would have expected better. The ruling Qing dynasty had already been sinicized by the time of the genocide, and the man in charge of carrying it out, the Qianlong emperor, was the longest-reigning ruler in the history of China. I doubt there are many Chinese people who hear his name and don’t consider him having been one of them.

  218. denk says:
    @Anonymous

    Lady,

    Know your enemy, it isnt China.

    ‘Springmann offers evidence that the Empire has greased the skids for the traumatized asylum seekers. For instance this technical but telling factoid:

    CISCO’s Tactical Operations (TacOps) team supported by the volunteer Disaster Response Team (DRT) from the U.K. and Ireland, Google, and NetHope have installed Meraki-based Wi-Fi networks and device charging stations at more than 17 sites along the migration route in Southern and Central Europe. [my emphasis]

    Springmann provides many other facts to buttress his contention that the “migrant millions” are human pawns. The reference to NetHope, by the way, is significant. NetHope and Mercy Corps “have backgrounds tied to the US government,” he writes. “NetHope is a shadowy organization headquartered in CIA-friendly Fairfax County, Virginia.” Springmann, who also has a background working for NGOs, names other suspect NGOs that play their role in the overall coerced migration. One of the motives is to destabilize Europe as an economic challenger to the U.S.A.

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/refugee-crisis-manufactured-migrants-are-tools-in-u-s-empires-grand-chessboard/5596706

    P.S.
    To CIAagent76, see what I mean,
    I present the smoking gun, the link is there to back up.

    You expect me to scan thru those vid/stories from dubious source for hours ,looking for non existent ‘evidence’ ??

  219. @Anonymous

    Jews assimilate and subvert the cultures into which they become the market dominant minority. Fuji Chinese merchants in Malaysia or Indonesia or Philippines cannot seem to grasp this subtlety so they are just an offense alien race at the top of the tree who own the economy.

    This is why there are Chinese pogroms in Malaysia or Indonesia but not against the Jews in the West.

    Part of this is racial of course. It is hard to distinguish Jews from other whites while Chinese stand out both through mannerisms and wealth in Southeast Asia.

  220. Svigor says:
    @denk

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchu_people

    The Manchus are descended from the Jurchen people

    Under the Mongols’ control, the Jurchens were divided into two groups and treated differently: the ones who were born and raised in North China and fluent in Chinese were considered to be Chinese (Han), but the people who were born and raised in the Jurchen homeland (Manchuria) without Chinese-speaking abilities were treated as Mongols politically.[53] From that time, the Jurchens of North China increasingly merged with the Han Chinese while those living in their homeland started to be Mongolized.[54] They adopted Mongolian customs, names [note 4] and the Mongolian language. As time went on, fewer and fewer Jurchens could recognize their own script.

    So many Han defected to the Qing Empire and swelled up the ranks of the Eight Banners that ethnic Manchus became a minority within the Banners, making up only 16% in 1648, with Han Bannermen dominating at 75% and Mongol Bannermen making up the rest.[105][106][107] It was this multi-ethnic, majority Han force in which Manchus were a minority, which conquered China for the Qing Empire.[108]

    A mass marriage of Han Chinese officers and officials to Manchu women to balance the massive number of Han women who entered the Manchu court as courtesans, concubines, and wives. These couples were arranged by Prince Yoto and Hong Taiji in 1632 to promote harmony between the two ethnic groups.[109] Also to promote ethnic harmony, a 1648 decree from the Shunzhi Emperor allowed Han Chinese civilian men to marry Manchu women from the Banners with the permission of the Board of Revenue if they were registered daughters of officials or commoners or the permission of their banner company captain if they were unregistered commoners. It was only later in the dynasty that these policies allowing intermarriage were done away with.

    Differences between Scots and Irish seem profound to them but I doubt many Chinks see it the same way. Hell, I doubt many Dagoes see it the same way.

    • Replies: @denk
  221. Talha says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    if the US opened its files on support of terrorism there

    The US should not only open up files of terrorism it supports in China, but elsewhere also. And it should completely knock it off.

    As a tax payer, they do NOT have my support in this regard.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @denk
  222. denk says:

    Talha the peace man swears by,
    HRW, AI, RFA…. !!!

    enuff said.

    I dont know what’s all these hours spent in alt sites for ?
    A fat lot of good it does if Talha and CIAagent76 still
    couldnt understand the concept of credible sources.

    hehehhe

    • Replies: @Talha
  223. Talha says:
    @Yee

    I didn’t ask for US inspection of these camps, I specifically asked for neutral third parties, preferably from non-aligned nations. And yes, US prisons and detention centers should be open to scrutiny and condemnation by the same groups.

    Why you think my criticism of aspects of the way China is handling the Uighur issue means my automatic support for US policies is beyond me. Do you live in a comic book “black hat/white hat” world, because I certainly don’t.

    There is plenty to criticize the US prison system about; specifically unnecessarily long sentences for non-violent drug use, etc.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @denk
  224. Talha says:
    @Avery

    Yo Avery,

    I don’t get this either. If he is talking about killings by police during arrests then, yes our police should be scrutinized as well as de-militarized, many police departments (especially in large cities) operate too much like the military.

    As far as 2 million without trial, that sounds really whacky, but I’m curious to see the source too.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Reuben Kaspate
  225. Anonymous [AKA "John Lee Majors"] says:
    @anon

    “China is a corrupt, burutal country.” This is a true description of China but the main difference between China and the US is that China generally keeps the corruption and brutality within its own borders, the US spreads ita corruption and brutality around the world.

  226. Nonny says:
    @Anonymous

    You’ve already massacred a vast number, and then there was that hypersensitivity over the Jakarta mayor being a Christian. Muslims have killed enormous numbers because of imagined blasphemy of your second god. What does it matter if non-Muslims eat pork?

    Look what a vile, savage, failed state Pakistan has become, perpetual stories of the murder of any Christian who steps out of line. What does it matter if someone who is not even a Muslim says Piss Mohammed?

    Freedom of religion does not just mean freedom of non-Islamic

    • Replies: @Reuben Kaspate
    , @Anonymous
  227. Talha says:
    @Anonymous

    This is reasonably easy to deal with; designate certain areas where there are large concentrations of Chinese as having their own local jurisdiction and separate laws. If they want to dress like thots in Muslim-concentrated areas, you fine them per municipal code. Otherwise, just stay clear of their neighborhoods and leave them be; if they keep up their ways of thottery (leading to currently abysmal fertility rates – 1.4 TFR in Malaysia) they are simply going to leave a bunch of empty seats for someone else to fill. As far as liquor shops, just make it more difficult to attain a business license for such in Muslim-concentrated areas. As far as pork…who cares what they serve and eat in their homes and restaurants?

    influence the government to do more to “liberalize”

    Fight that crap tooth and nail or you’ll be dealing with gay pride parades passing by mosques.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Reuben Kaspate
  228. Talha says:
    @denk

    Well, certainly the official line from the Chinese government doesn’t give me much confidence. Why don’t you suggest some other non-aligned international human rights organizations, I’m open to learning from other sources.

    Peace.

  229. Yee says:

    Talha,

    “Why you think my criticism of aspects of the way China is handling the Uighur issue means my automatic support for US policies is beyond me. ”

    Perhaps because I never heard you calling for international inspection of the US government?

    • Replies: @Talha
  230. Seraphim says:
    @Anon

    Huh. Talk about ‘persecuted’ Muslims and our soft spoken Talha is on the breach deploring the ‘Muslim world’s general silence on this most shameful aspect of this whole situation’.

  231. pensword says:
    @Talha

    Again, some links to reliable sources would be welcome.

    crickets.wav

    • LOL: Talha
  232. anonymous[294] • Disclaimer says:

    The whitey west has been machinating the divide and conquer strategy for far too long, and has resulted in the untold suffering of 100’s of millions of people.

    As a muslim I would love for all true monotheist nations to join with China, possibly Russia, and other brutally affected so-called “third world” nations to connive, yes connive, for there is nothing wrong in conniving against the pure evil of the degenerate west, and get them to taste a bit of their own bitter medicine.

    To be sure, I know that the pagan godless west will be most justly recompensed later, for their satanic evil in this world, but a fraction of that recompense evidenced now, will be most heart warming.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  233. anonymous[294] • Disclaimer says:
    @anonymous

    and get them to taste a bit of their own bitter medicine.

    On a second reading, the term “medicine” seems to diminish the point I am trying to make.

    A better term would be;

    and get them to taste a bit of their own bitter poison.

  234. Anonymous [AKA "Ilham Budi"] says:
    @SporadicMyrmidon

    Agents of Chabad in Bangkok were rumoured to be a supplier of illegal harvested organs to Thai clinics.

  235. Historically, East Turkistan has only been intermittently ruled by China, and culturally and ethnically, of course, it’s not part of China at all. While it’s very questionable if we should intervene, it’s also unreasonable to just take for granted that China has a right to control it. One might as well decide Russia should rule Poland, or that we can take back the Philippines if we feel like it.

  236. @Godfree Roberts

    That’s the best you’ve got? You can’t refute anything I say, so all you can do is claim I’m some rube who blindly trusts the media and government (newsflash: I don’t).

    If China is really so amazing, why don’t you live there? Even better, why don’t you move there and become an outspoken critic of the CCP? Since China is so free and egalitarian, I’m sure nothing will happen to you. You can prove all China critics wrong in a heartbeat. So why don’t you?

    I think we both know the answer to that question.

  237. @Godfree Roberts

    That’s nowhere close to a billion, and it seems that you’re in dire need of some remedial math classes. Just stop, it’s embarrassing.

    • Replies: @Reuben Kaspate
    , @Vidi
  238. Ender says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    Weren’t they basically quarter Asian by the time based on genetic analysis?

  239. Anonymous[796] • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    He’s talking rubbish, Talha. The only orang asli in peninsular Malaysia live in Cameron Highlands and i see no signs of them being Muslim. I don’t think they even have a religion. They live a pretty separate life and many can’t even speak malay language, let alone English.

    As for Sarawak, the capital city is majority Christian (thanks to a large Chinese demographic) and most of the native tribes are Christian also. There isn’t any pressure to convert, aside from the inane marriage laws, but I have consistently heard from many Christians that there is a lot of discrimination against them wrt. government jobs, Petronas jobs (oil is huge over there), etc, even though they have the legally favoured bumiputera status.

    Actually, religion is not such an issue in sarawak. In my experience, everyone is happy to hang out and get drunk (!) together irrespective of their ID card religion. Their identity as sarawakians trumps their identity as muslims/Christians. I think sabah is much the same, although i don’t have much personal experience.

    • Replies: @Talha
  240. Talha says:
    @Yee

    Perhaps because I never heard you calling for international inspection

    Well, since I just called for international scrutiny and exposure of US prisons and detention centers which have been pointed out as violating human rights norms, you can put that criticism aside.

    Peace.

  241. Talha says:
    @Anonymous

    Much thanks for the insights! Which area (state or sultanate) do you live in, may I ask?

    Heard the current sultan abdicated as king.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  242. anon[301] • Disclaimer says:
    @Svigor

    why lie? the dzungar genocide actually has a complicated, back and forth history which eventually led up to the genocide. It didnt happen in a vacuum. Youre talking as if the qing dynasty came out of nowhere and just started genociding the dzungars. Why do WN such as yourself constantly insist on speaking about things authoritatively which you know nothing about? The chinese actually had a reasonable motive for their campaign against the dzungars (not that I agree with it still), juxtapose this to the european colonists who crossed literal oceans just to genocide and displace people that they didnt even know.

    also dzungar people still exist, in the old dzungar territory they are now referred to as oolods, but im sure that there are other surviving dzungar populations throughout the region as well. Also it was only 80% of the dzungar population (500,000 to 600,000 people) which was massacred, this is drastically different than the total annihilation/extermination that you spoke of (80% is not 100% …), so once again you are factually wrong. Why go through the effort of spouting (easily disprovable) falsehoods just so that you can try to justify european colonization? The trope about WNs being stupid is really true

    • Replies: @Svigor
  243. Anonymous[367] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    You see the Chinese in Malaysia are absolutely in your face about not caring much about offending Muslim sensibilities.

    They don’t care because they do 90% of the productive work, pay the vast majority of taxes and keep the whole country afloat. The Malaysian Chinese are Atlas! In their eyes, they see no reason to respect the malays, who are utterly incapable of starting any non government assisted enterprise, make for poor workers even when supervised by a Chinese, and spend their whole lives living off governments handouts and easy malay-only jobs.

    They wear really short shorts most of the time, there are too many pork and liquor stores that cater to them, run most of the Asian “massage” parlors

    If they’re on the west coast, why not? They made JB and Penang, so why can’t they enjoy? You know what’s really hypocritical? When malays leave their Islamic failed states on the east coast to come look for work in Chinese areas and then have the audacity to complain about the way the Chinese dress! Wow…

    As for the massage parlours and KTV, you know nothing can take place without police approval, right? That means that both the religious police and the regular police will be taking bribes in return for the unofficial license to operate. Once again, as with all business in malaysia, the Chinese do the work while the malays eat for free…

  244. Anonymous[367] • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    This is reasonably easy to deal with; designate certain areas where there are large concentrations of Chinese as having their own local jurisdiction and separate laws.

    This is exactly how it works. The problem is that the Chinese are light years ahead of the malays and create their world to Singaporean standard, while the malays are culturally incapable of advancing beyond an Indonesian standard. So what happens is that the malay areas become failed states where single mothers are forced into prostitution to provide for their children while the Chinese areas pay host to Intel, Motorola and a plethora of other high end economic activity. The Malays then leave their malay run areas and migrate to Chinese areas in order to find work. Once they get conformable, they start to feel that actually they are the real Malaysians and their culture is more important than Chinese culture. So then, they can recreate their failed states on a smaller scale in a previously Chinese dominated area. Their higher fertility rate makes it worse also.

    So actually, there’s no point in trying to reason with them because they twist their logic to suit their situation at the time. Their basic axioms are 1) we are the Malays, and Malaysia is ours 2) if the Chinese achieved success, they probably did it unfairly 3) therefore it is our right to take the fruits of Chinese labour while simultaneously demanding that they respect our culture and leave us in our comfort zone.

    I wish you could spend a few months traveling Malaysia to really see this first hand, Talha. It would be eye opening and also very sobering.

    • Replies: @Reuben Kaspate
  245. Anonymous[367] • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    Hi Talha,

    I live in one of the straits settlements. I prefer not to say too much because we can get into very real trouble here for usurping malay supremacy. Think of how careful an American must be when they speak about the Jews, and that’s roughly what we’re dealing with here.

    Yes, the king is passing the baton 2 years into his 5 year rule. Banging hot slavic blondes is evidently more important than his civic duties.

    • Replies: @Talha
  246. Anonymous[367] • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    As a tax payer, they do NOT have my support in this regard.

    Unfortunately they do. Your taxes are your support!

  247. JNDillard says:

    “Groups like the World Uyghur Congress have offices in Washington D.C. and are funded by the US State Department via the National Endowment for Democracy (NED). The NED’s website admits to meddling and breaks down its targeting of China…. Beijing does not recognize this name and the NED – by recognizing the term “East Turkestan” – implicitly admits that it supports separatism in Western China, even as the US decries separatists and alleged annexations in places like Donbass, Ukraine and Russian Crimea.” Amazing the number of commentators here who seem to be oblivious to NED’s track record: https://consortiumnews.com/2018/03/08/the-national-endowment-for-meddling-in-democracy/

    • Replies: @denk
  248. @Anonymous

    Almost all financial crimes from Burma to the Philippines are committed by the Chinese minority which has a stranglehold on those economies… it would not be surprising to see pogroms against them by the natives, if they keep pushing the envelope!

  249. @Talha

    I am not gonna provide you with any links either, Talha, but there are morons in Malaysia agitating for the Arabic to be the national language and drop Malay Bahasa altogether… what does it say about a people whose self-hatred has been so fine tuned by forceful indoctrination to some fanciful ideas of a desert people, who didn’t have a pot to piss in and a window to throw it out. No wonder then Malays are financial slaves to the pork loving Chinese!

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Jeff Stryker
  250. Talha says:
    @Anonymous

    Thanks much again for your many insights. I definitely think it is time for Malays to rethink the whole Muslim = Malay idea. Especially now that more local Chinese have become Muslim over the years and Hui Muslims have been moving into Malaysia since the eighties. They should be included into the overall Muslim structure and should not be excluded from even the top level government jobs and such for not being Malay. I read an interesting paper on the subject of how this challenge is happening on the ground, perhaps you would be interested:
    https://www.iseas.edu.sg/images/pdf/ISEAS_Perspective_2016_15.pdf

    What you are describing is kind of what happens when a place stops running on a merit-based system. Certainly has some advantages for some, but leads to some issues you pointed out. I think it is best if the Chinese-heavy areas are given their own local jurisdiction powers and can set local laws. Muslims should simply stay out or just put up with the cultural quirks it if they want to live in those designated zones.

    As far as Malaysia being for Malays, well isn’t that kind of what everyone says except certain Western countries that want to import the world? I’m not sure it would be a smart idea for them to simply open up their country for mass settlement by Chinese from the mainland. Do they have some guest worker visa thing going on where Chinese can come in as workers for a while, make a bunch of money and then go back to China? Maybe that would solve some problems.

    Chinese culture in Malaysia does seem to be quite productive except in one key area; babies. They need to work on that.

    You are certainly right, the US government has my tax money, but not my support in some of the ways they spend it. If they allowed me to choose where my tax money would be allocated, that would be awesome, but as of now, I don’t have that choice or whether I want to pay it.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  251. @denk

    “Can you show me one instance of China trying to genocide whites ?”

    It’s too early to tell… if the Chinese are anything like the Jews who gloat about long memories in their own favor, they will come aftet the whites after they have milked the West for all its worth, with the help of Jews!

    • Replies: @denk
  252. @Talha

    I live in New York City and I have yet to see police brutality… you hardly ever see an arrest being made save the obvious.

  253. @Nonny

    If you keep pissing on Mohammed, then Talha, the UNZ commentator, will be on your back like a fly on a shitpile… be very careful, Nonny!

  254. @Talha

    Pork serving restaurants are out in the public areas and so would be gay pride parades…

    • Replies: @Talha
  255. @Bay Area Guy

    Just imagine a billion uncouth Chinese running over culturally iconic places of the West? Once a week you see few hundred wannabe Japs run through Rockefeller Center and leave the stench of MSG behind… it’s embarrassing at best to see those newly enriched Chinese making fool of themselves.

  256. @Anonymous

    If the Chinese create the first world like Singapore then they can thank the White West but the Malay can only thank the Arabs for his malaise… Islam is not conducive to progress, given it requires progressive mindset.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  257. Talha says:
    @Reuben Kaspate

    Arabic script or Arabic language? It makes a difference, since they were writing in Arabic script for ages.

    Every Muslim culture should strive to make Arabic a secondary language so we can have a common means of communication across the Muslim world.
    There was no forceful indoctrination; anybody who knows about Islam in that region knows it was brought in by Arab traders and Sufi teachers. No Arab army marched or sailed that far.

    And yet the Malays are never going to let themselves be lorded over by pork-loving Chinese in their own land due to that same religion or demographically replaced by others while it might actually happen in the US. So…

    Peace.

  258. Vidi says:
    @Talha

    [Uighurs] being forced to attend “re-education camps”

    You demanded some links before, so I am doing the same now: please provide some credible evidence that the general population of Uighurs are being forced to attend “re-education camps”.

    I can well imagine some violent people being arrested, but I seriously doubt that the general Uighur population is oppressed.

    • Replies: @Talha
  259. denk says:
    @Talha

    There is plenty to criticize the US prison system about; specifically unnecessarily long sentences for non-violent drug use, etc.

    Thats hardly a secret.
    But going after murikka for its prison abuse is like charging Al Capone for tax evasion…kid stuff.

    uncle sham should be dragged to a world court to face trial for its legend of crimes against humanities, instead of swaggering around as self appointed judge, prosecutor and executioner.

    • Replies: @Talha
  260. Anonymous[262] • Disclaimer says:
    @Nonny

    Ah a commie talking about massacre. That’s like a dutchman talking about milk right? A cowboy talking about beef? Get the picture? You know what happens if you do not confirm to the narrative from Beijing now don’t ya? As one commenter here said, When you can force the tallest man in China to screw the tallest woman in China so you can have Yao ming, you know those commies have complete and utter control over a billion people. By that comparison, the rules here are a cakewalk

    Nobody knows more about mass massacre than chairman mao who I think got inspired by comrade stalin. Together they might put hitler to shame and genghis khan might would glee to death and get raptured hearing about their heroism!. Too bad I am not allowed to piss on chairman mao’s mausoleum or else that’d be a lot of fun! Pissing on the grave isn’t something that is local I understand but I picked up on some habits of our dear white friends while graduating from Purdue.

    Freedom of religion does not just mean freedom of non-Islamic

    Eh?? What the f*** was that about? Looks like you had one to many tiger beer? 😉

  261. Vidi says:
    @Talha

    Read specifically the sections on religious restrictions:
    https://www.hrw.org/report/2018/09/09/eradicating-ideological-viruses/chinas-campaign-repression-against-xinjiangs#

    Do you know that one of the major sponsors of Human Rights Watch is the Open Society Institute, a Soros organization (link)?

    • Replies: @Talha
  262. denk says:
    @Svigor

    gimme a break.

    Are you telling me all this unverifiable mumbo jumbo allegedly happened 1000 years ago should supposedly excuse BLOOD FOR OIL in the 21C ???

  263. Talha says:
    @Reuben Kaspate

    If they want to hold gay pride parades in their own districts, I don’t see why Muslims should care if they want to poz themselves out of existence for “muh sodomy”.

    As far as in Muslim areas – LOOOOL – no.

    As far as pork; ownership and consumption of such has always been a protected right of non-Muslims in Muslim lands so Muslims have to just deal with it if they get triggered.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  264. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    They were white people obviously.

  265. Talha says:
    @denk

    To my knowledge the US is the only country officially charged as guilty by the world court for war crimes or terrorism – I believe for something it did to one of the countries in South America. Of course, enforcing the judgment is very difficult if the US doesn’t want to cooperate.

    But I agree, there should have been some kind of legal repercussion for Iraq, Libya, etc.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @denk
  266. Talha says:
    @Vidi

    I supplied links already, you are free to dismiss the sources.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Vidi
  267. denk says:
    @Reuben Kaspate

    Unlike UKUS, the Chinese aint in the business of genocides.

    If it ever come to that, it’d be an act of self defence.

    Even gawd would understand,.

    • Replies: @Reuben Kaspate
  268. Talha says:
    @Vidi

    OK – that’s fine, if you’ve got links to a more reliable organization that has been able to investigate and debunk the charges, I would love to read it. I keep asking people to supply links to more reliable and neutral third-party organizations that have been able to explore the issue.

    If you want to take the official line of the Chinese government as definitive, no sweat off my back.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Vidi
  269. @Talha

    What makes you think that either the script or the language of the Arabs are superior to say your own Poonjabi or whatever native tongue you speak at home and which has been in existence for millennia? It’s only because the followers of Mohammed on their Egyptian stallions with curved scimitars in hand yelling “God is Great” put fear into the peaceful yet pitiful masses of the Subcontinent for eternity that their progeny, even today is fearful and in trance of those criminal hordes, only good for rape, pillage and marauding. You won’t find salvation either for your soul or solution to which language is superior in Arabic!

    • Replies: @Talha
  270. Vidi says:
    @Bay Area Guy

    That’s nowhere close to a billion, and it seems that you’re in dire need of some remedial math classes.

    I think you’re the one who’s in dire need of remedial logic. The cited article says that 130 million Chinese traveled abroad in just one year (2017). It doesn’t take many years to add up to a billion. They might not be a billion distinct people though: some people are probably repeat tourists. But however many distinct people they may be, that is an enormous number who know about the world beyond China, and can spread the word if Xinhua’s articles conflict with their personal experience. That 80% of the population still trusts the agency says something about its consistent credibility.

    In the USA, in contrast, “92% of Republicans think media intentionally reports fake news”:

    https://www.axios.com/trump-effect-92-percent-republicans-media-fake-news-9c1bbf70-0054-41dd-b506-0869bb10f08c.html

    A majority of Democrats think so too.

    • Replies: @Bay Area Guy
  271. denk says:
    @Talha

    .

    Of course, enforcing the judgment is very difficult if the US doesn’t want to cooperate.

    Yet it wants to send its UN or whatever vassals to ‘inspect’ so-called gulags in Xinjiang ?

    If you ask me, what it deserves is a middle finger from Xi.

    But those oh so ‘nasty’ chicoms are ever
    too accommodating.

    • Replies: @Talha
  272. Vidi says:
    @Doogie

    Another thing – Eastern Romans didn’t have blue eyes!!! If anything the Turks were more blue eyed than them!

    Incidentally, everyone has blue eyes. If your eyes look brown, you can get laser surgery to burn off the brown layer and turn your eyes permanently blue:

    http://www.feelguide.com/2015/03/14/all-brown-eyes-are-blue-underneath-and-theres-now-a-laser-eye-surgery-to-turn-them-blue-permanently/

    But you might want to keep your eyes brown. You are more likely to get eye cancer if your eyes are blue.

    Just FYI.

  273. Vidi says:
    @Talha

    I supplied links already, you are free to dismiss the sources.

    Organizations funded by George Soros are known sources of disinformation. If you keep citing one of them, like Human Rights Watch, your credibility will suffer seriously.

    I asked for a credible source for your claim that the general population of Uighurs are being forced into “re-education camps”. Do you have one? If some violent people got arrested, that is no surprise. Do you have any credible evidence that the general Uighur population is being forced into those camps?

    • Replies: @Talha
  274. Talha says:
    @Reuben Kaspate

    Look, if you me to take you seriously, then learn a little history and talk like a mature person. Are we talking about China and Malaysia or now you want to loop in India for some unknown reason? The native tongue I speak wouldn’t exist without Persian and Arabic.

    You won’t find salvation either for your soul

    Uh hunh…guess we’ll both find out eventually won’t we?

    I get it, you don’t like Islam – thanks for your opinion. I’ll file it where I file other opinions.

    Peace.

  275. Talha says:
    @denk

    (Sigh) I’m calling for third party, neutral investigations of those places; why does that upset you? Don’t you want the truth to come out and the Chinese government to be vindicated publicly?

    Peace.

    • Replies: @denk
  276. denk says:
    @JNDillard

    They’r very proud of their ‘transparency’, even when they’r scheming to commit arson on someone’s property.

    ‘Fuller was tapped last year to head the study on potential Asian ethic “fracture zones.” The CIA’s Office of Transnational Issues, which contracted for the study, was interested in gauging whether China might ”pop its cork” any time soon, Fuller said in interviews with Reuters this week. Citing former colleagues at Langley, he said CIA in-house analysts, stung by lapses in predicting the Soviet and Yugoslav collapses, apparently had begun leaning toward a view that ethnic nationalism could split China with the right spark.

    https://rense.com/political/uofhprof.htm

  277. Talha says:
    @Vidi

    The UNHRC has found the reports credible:
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-rights-un/u-n-says-it-has-credible-reports-that-china-holds-million-uighurs-in-secret-camps-idUSKBN1KV1SU

    If none of these organizations meet your specific standards, I’m fine with that and we can simply leave the conversation there.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Vidi
    , @Godfree Roberts
    , @denk
  278. Vidi says:
    @Talha

    No, you started spreading what is probably fake news about alleged forced re-education of the general Uighur population. It is your responsibility to retract it, or to announce that you are withholding judgement until more credible evidence arrives.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @A123
  279. @Talha

    I don’t like the lecherous louts of the Levant… it’s so that you happened to be love with them.

    Self-hatred is powerful inducement to finding paradise whete it doesn’t exist. If the old testament had been written down by the Highland Scotts and then copied by the artistic Japanese in the form of Islam, I would not look upon it so unfavorably.

    Lastly, as to mixing a little of China, Malaysia and India in the discussion, don’t be disconcerted, for if you know history, you will find it straightforward that those places were not incongruous before the advent of Afro-Semitic peoples, be it Arabs or Jews and their fantasies. No God would choose either an Arab or a Jew as his representative on this green earth… a lot more sensible people would qualify for the honor!

    • Replies: @Talha
  280. Talha says:
    @Vidi

    Nope, sorry – if you want to take the Chinese government’s line as authoritative, I’m fine with that. I don’t find much wrong in the UNHRC statement and personally find them credible as I did with their statements about how Iraqi children were being oppressed by US/UK sanctions, Yazizdi oppression, etc. If you want to consider me a non-credible source put me on the ignore list.

    I don’t owe you anything.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Vidi
  281. @denk

    I’m certain you are familiar with the old saw about power being the corrupter, so what do you think will happen to the Chinese hegemony? Genocide will just be another tool in the governing policy…

    • Replies: @denk
    , @Jeff Stryker
  282. @Talha

    And what makes you think that sublime Avestan, the mother of Farsi/Persian and the sister to Sanskrit and the daughter and granddaughter respectively of the Indo-European wasn’t corrupted by the guttaral piece of work, the Arabic? Ask the fire worshippers about the desert rats!

    • Replies: @Talha
  283. A123 says:
    @Vidi

    You are correct that Talha’s attempts to use pro-terror, anti-Christian sources such as UNHRC and HRW are not credible. However, a broken clock is right twice a day. The forced internment of Muslims in Xinjiang province has been reported everywhere, including uncontaminated sources. For example:

    https://www.businessinsider.com/what-is-life-like-in-xinjiang-reeducation-camps-china-2018-5

    There is something to be said for the strategy. Housing men and women separately prevents the the current generation of Violent Islam from procreating the next generation of Muslim Terrorists.

    My question is — How can the Chinese government hope to close ranks with Muslim nations via OBOR while simultaneously running de-Islamification camps?

    I’m looking for China to redefine the “One Road”. Instead of the Silk Road through Muslim countries, they can use the Iron Road (railroad) through Russia thus bypassing the danger zone.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
    , @denk
  284. @Vidi

    They might not be a billion distinct people though: some people are probably repeat tourists.

    Yeah, no kidding, and that’s exactly my point. By throwing out the number “billion,” he was being very misleading. If over 100 million Chinese travel abroad each year, that doesn’t say very much. More likely than not, they’re mostly repeat travelers.

    That 80% of the population still trusts the agency says something about its consistent credibility.

    Or that they’re just extremely nationalistic. I’m pretty sure that the vast majority of Republicans would trust the media if it only consisted of Fox News. Likewise, I’m sure that the majority of Democrats would trust the media if MSNBC was the only game in town.

    That doesn’t necessarily mean those stations are “credible.”

    • Replies: @Vidi
    , @Godfree Roberts
  285. Vidi says:
    @Talha

    The UNHRC has found the reports credible:
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-rights-un/u-n-says-it-has-credible-reports-that-china-holds-million-uighurs-in-secret-camps-idUSKBN1KV1SU

    The only person quoted in that article is Gay McDougall, who is on the board of of Open Society Foundations (link), which was founded by George Soros, as the society’s own web page says (link). As Soros’ organizations are notorious sources of disinformation, I am more than somewhat skeptical of your citation.

    Until you show some evidence that your claim of forced “re-education camps” for the general Uighur population is true, it is your responsibility either to retract the claim or to suspend judgement until better evidence arrives.

    • Replies: @Vidi
    , @Talha
  286. Vidi says:
    @Vidi

    Until you show some evidence

    Of course, I mean “credible” evidence” — not fake news from a Soros organization or flunky.

  287. Talha says:
    @Reuben Kaspate

    If the old testament had been written down by the Highland Scotts and then copied by the artistic Japanese

    (Face palm) I don’t know why people think I care about the reasons why they reject Islam and feel the need to explain them to me…

    Look, you will get a chance to meet God. You can explain to Him why you think He screwed up by not revealing the Quran to a Scottish person. It wasn’t accepted as an excuse before:
    “And they say: Why was not this Quran revealed to a man of importance in the two towns?” (43:31)

    But dude, you’re Reuben Kaspate, maybe God totally cares about your opinion!

    No God would choose either an Arab or a Jew as his representative on this green earth

    I don’t see why not since He sent messengers to all people:
    “And We certainly sent into every nation a messenger, [saying], ‘Worship Allah and avoid false gods.’…” (16:36)

    Again, when you meet Him, you can tell Him why He should have excluded the Jews and Arabs. Be assertive and demand answers, remember you’re totally Reuben!

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Reuben Kaspate
  288. Talha says:
    @Reuben Kaspate

    Riiiight…why don’t you do some research into what is considered the height of Persian poetry and get back to me.

    The fire worshippers had an empire, they lost it. If you want to have an empire, learn how to keep it.

    Really man, you’re acting as if we’re on a 5th grade play ground…

    Peace.

  289. Vidi says:
    @Talha

    I don’t owe you anything.

    You may think you owe me nothing, but you may owe the people on this board an apology for spreading what is probably fake news. So far, none of the evidence you cite (mostly disinformation from Soros organizations) is credible. For the good of the people on this forum — not to mention your reputation here — either retract your claim that the general Uighur population is being forced into “re-education camps”, or announce that you’re suspending judgement on this issue pending better evidence.

    • Replies: @Talha
  290. Vidi says:
    @Bay Area Guy

    If over 100 million Chinese travel abroad each year, that doesn’t say very much. More likely than not, they’re mostly repeat travelers.

    If 130 million Chinese go abroad that one year only, that is an enormous number, more than enough to catch Xinhua in a lie and therefore wreck the agency’s credibility. That 80% of the people still trust it tells me that it’s still pretty consistently honest.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  291. Talha says:
    @Vidi

    or to suspend judgement until better evidence arrives.

    I have already done so. I’m waiting for better evidence. Right now there are allegations considered credible by the UN of what is going on in that area, China is denying it. When an allegation of a crime occurs and it is considered credible, the next step is to investigate to determine whether it is false or true.

    I have already been on record (multiple times) that I hope the allegations are not true, but I would like some neutral third-party to investigate the facts to get to the bottom of it.

    We have a difference of opinion on what we consider credible here; thus you don’t want an investigation and I would like one.

    It’s OK, we are all adults here – we can agree to disagree.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Vidi
  292. @Talha

    Would the investigators investigate the West’s funding and training of Uyghur separatists?

    Could any investigative dream team evenhandedly investigate China’s actions in the region AND America’s?

    • Replies: @Talha
  293. @A123

    How can the Chinese government hope to close ranks with Muslim nations via OBOR while simultaneously running de-Islamification camps?

    China and the Muslim nations have already closed ranks: both condemn Uyghur terrorism in China and both support China’s humane intervention because the Chinese government is not running de-Islamification camps. It’s running de-terrorism camps.

    • Replies: @A123
  294. @Bay Area Guy

    They have access to our news outlets and, if they want more access they can do as I do, subscribe to a VPN service.

    • Replies: @Bay Area Guy
  295. @Vidi

    Can you provide us with an example of a Xinhua lie? One will suffice.

    • Replies: @Vidi
  296. Talha says:
    @Vidi

    I’ve already made my position clear several times. If you don’t think the allegations warrant any investigation, fine with me.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Vidi
  297. Talha says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Absolutely! And any weapons transfers, etc. They should investigate the whole shebang, bro. I want everything on the table, everyone’s involvement in the matter – what are you afraid of? As I stated before, I consider China’s concerns about separatism and terrorism to be legitimate. I just want to know that they aren’t going overboard like many governments do in tackling the problem.

    Could any investigative dream team evenhandedly investigate China’s actions in the region AND America’s?

    I can only tell you what I would like. I’m not an expert that can tell you the exact logistics of how this would be accomplished. Above my pay grade.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Joe Wong
  298. Druid says:
    @Nonny

    Are you joking. China is totally corrupt. The American government and MIC is totally corrupted by the Ziofascists

  299. Druid says:
    @Sergey Krieger

    All true and well said, though I do give a mild damn! If the Wahhabists have tried to infiltrate (maybe with US instigation), the y should be stopped.

  300. A123 says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    I will give you a 2nd chance to answer the question from 103 above:

    What is certain is that the central Chinese government is intentionally altering the demographics of the region. You don’t obtain shifts like this from natural growth. (2) … Uyghurs make up 46 per cent of Xinjiang’s population, according to 2010 census figures, down from 75 per cent in 1953.

    Why is the Muslim population plummeting if there is no de-Islamification?

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  301. someone says:

    I’m guessing Talha (and the other doofuses citing CIA-linked media) are narcs.

    Way to bag on China for sequestering religious extremists yet stay silent over the CIA’s role in fomenting Islamic religious loonies in order to stick an eye into Mossadeq’s Iran, Nasser’s Egypt, Sukarno’s Indonesia, and the Soviet aligned, secular Afghan republic.

  302. @A123

    Can you provide me with links to those figures?

    • Replies: @A123
  303. @Godfree Roberts

    Are you for real? Saying that they can access our news outlets if they use a VPN service and don’t get caught isn’t exactly a strong endorsement of China’s supposedly free society. It’s like saying that the US doesn’t prosecute a draconian war on drugs because you can buy drugs from a local dealer and not get busted most of the time.

    By the way, one of my friends actually visited China, used a somewhat low quality VPN, and received a warning from the authorities. Luckily, since it was his first “offense,” it was a simple warning. See, I can use quotes from a friend to prove my point too.

  304. Vidi says:
    @Talha

    Right now there are allegations considered credible by the UN of what is going on in that area, China is denying it.

    As far as I can tell, the “UN” you cite consists of just one person, the American member of the UNHCR. This woman works for George Soros, so her credibility is seriously doubtful.

    Also, you are not doing your reputation here any good by trying to misrepresent the words of one woman as the consensus of the United Nations.

  305. @Talha

    There is no God but no God… You better get your 72 right there in California while going is good!

  306. @Bay Area Guy

    By the way, Godfree, you still haven’t substantiated your claim that Uighurs are descendants of marooned white soldiers. That is, unless you consider the original Turks “white.”

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  307. Vidi says:
    @Talha

    I’ve already made my position clear several times. If you don’t think the allegations warrant any investigation, fine with me.

    You are the one who alleged that China forces the general Uighur population into “re-education camps”. That makes you responsible for demonstrating that this is true, or for retracting the claim.

    • Replies: @Talha
  308. @Talha

    Perhaps if you had been the advisor, the medieval Arabs might have kept their little empire in Spain. And as to the Persian poetry, it won’t help them land on the far side of moon… maybe that’s what alla wanted all along…

    • Replies: @Talha
  309. A123 says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Sure… from 103 above

    (2) https://www.scmp.com/news/china/policies-politics/article/1779695/chinese-forces-shot-civilians-claim-villagers

    I would like to have more robust numbers. I have seen some in the past but cannot find them again. I think part the problem with researching this is the variation in “romanization” of Uyghar, Uighar, Wighar, Wieger, etc…

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  310. Vidi says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Can you provide us with an example of a Xinhua lie? One will suffice.

    I wasn’t saying that Xinhua lies. I was saying the opposite: if Xinhua did lie, there’d be more than enough Chinese who could catch the error.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  311. Anonymous[367] • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    Arabic script or Arabic language? It makes a difference, since they were writing in Arabic script for ages.

    In the Eastern states, it’s common to see Arabic script (Jawi) used to write malay language.

    Is it really a good thing, though? Malay phonetics are completely different to Arabic phonetics and have no use for tonal markings. Actually, the English writing system fits the malay language perfectly and, apart from the two types of ‘e’, the result is entirely phonetic and doesn’t even need to use all 26 letters.

    Every Muslim culture should strive to make Arabic a secondary language so we can have a common means of communication across the Muslim world.

    Wouldn’t it be better if they spent their time learning English? Most malays can only speak their own language, and often then not even properly. After that, how about Chinese?

    And yet the Malays are never going to let themselves be lorded over by pork-loving Chinese in their own land

    So who drives the porche and who fits a family of 5 on a 100cc motorbike?

    But they can accept this. Chinese have been in Malaysia 500 years and they’ve worked their way up from the bottom through their sustained hard work, intelligence, and dependability. You know what really gets the malays (and Indians)? When Bangladeshi foreign workers start out doing the shit jobs they don’t want to do and then, 10 years later, have worked their way up to a respectable blue collar profession like CNC operator and drive a better car than the malay. God forbid if the the bangla gets himself a malay girlfriend.

    It seems to me your understanding of Muslims is that they’re principled, Talha. You might need to throw this out of the window when appraising the malays because they’re the most unprincipled opportunistic sellouts ever. Thais always had the ability to hold their kingdom against almost every onslaught, whereas the malays always took the easy route out and struck agreements every time a challenger arose. First, the British, then the Chinese, now the simultaneous threats of mainland Chinese and Bangladeshi workers.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
    , @Talha
  312. @Bay Area Guy

    Tell your friend if he wants to use a VPN to use a registered provider.

    Unauthorized VPNs are used by crooks and spies.

    The government is not interested in blocking information: they want to block the massive disinformation originating from Western media and apps like FB and Twitter.

    FB and Twitter were doing fine until the Uyghur terrorists used them to organize a massacre. Even then they would have been OK but they refused to divulge the communications of some of the suspects, at which point they were blocked.

    Of course FB and Twitter fell over themselves revealing terrorists who perpetrated attacks in the US.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  313. peterAUS says:

    Striving for “fair and balanced” the owner got this:
    https://www.unz.com/emargolis/mercy-for-chinas-uighurs/
    here.

    Hehehe…..it would be interesting to see the author of this article having a chat with the author of the, linked above, article.

    I guess they’ll have some disagreements about these quotes (from the linked):

    Reports coming in about China’s new gulag for Muslims seem too awful to believe. But the United Nations and responsible media have revealed that hundreds of thousands of Uighur Muslims from western China – and perhaps as many as one million – have been shut away in a growing chain of prison camps designed to impose ruthless state control over them and crush their culture and religion.

    China has set about uprooting Muslim culture and identity. Religious devotions, beards and traditional Islamic dress, the Uighur language itself, and historic customs are banned. Communist party members are billeted in the home of Uighurs to keep a wary eye on them. Schools are run by Chinese officials; Uighur movements are restricted; mosques are shuttered.

    Over the past year, China has reportedly been building what are officially called ‘re-education’ centers in the region. The UN reports that up to one million Muslims have been locked away in these modern gulags, surrounded by barbed wire and watch towers. China’s prison complex, known as ‘laogai,’ covers the nation, but the Muslim gulag appears particularly brutal and intimidating.

    China’s strategy in Tibet and Eastern Turkestan has been what I call ‘ethnic inundation.’ Han Chinese are brought in from afar to settle Muslim and Buddhist lands, relentlessly swamping the local population who become a policed minority.

    Funny.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  314. @Bay Area Guy

    I consider the original Turks white, as their descendents do.

  315. denk says:
    @Talha

    I heard this UNHRC is also gunning after Myanmar for alleged abuse of the Rohingha ,
    surely that’d be another of your pet proj ?

    Why doest the UNHRC, the ‘highest court on human rights’, go after UKUS for alleged crimes against humanities in Iraq, Libya, Kosovo, Syria, Indonesia, E Timor, West Papua, Nam, Laos, Cambodia., Yemen, Congo, Rwanda…….?

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Seraphim
  316. @A123

    The articles you referenced contain no such statistics and your statement is counterfactual.

    Here’s the background and some stats:

    In 1955, Xinjiang province was renamed Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region. The name that was originally proposed was simply “Xinjiang Autonomous Region”. Saifuddin Azizi, a Uyghur and the first chairman of Xinjiang, registered his strong objections to the proposed name with Mao Zedong, arguing that “autonomy is not given to mountains and rivers. It is given to particular nationalities.” As a result, the administrative region would be named “Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region”.[19]

    In the 2000 census, Xinjiang’s 18.46 million people are 45.21% Uyghur and 40.57% Han. The current population situation is similar to that of the Qing when many Han lived in the area (Toops 2003; XPCO 2002).

    “The PRC’s Constitution and laws guarantee equal rights to all ethnic groups in China and help promote ethnic minority groups’ economic and cultural development[73] One notable preferential treatment ethnic minorities enjoy was their exemption from the population growth control of the One-Child Policy. Additionally, ethnic minorities enjoy other special exemptions which vary by province- these include lower tax thresholds and lower required scores for entry into university, as well as funding enabling them to “express their cultural difference through the arts and sports.”[74] The use of these measures to raise ethnic minorities’ human capital is seen by the central government as important for improving the economic development of ethnic minorities and ultimately attaining a xiaokang, or “well-off society that promotes ‘equitable’ and ‘harmonious’ stability among the ethnic minority population.”[75] As Hasmath and MacDonald illustrate, universities are “expected to ‘contribute to national integration and the breaking down of ethnic hatred, and to help encourage a national identity.’

    Minorities have widely benefited from China’s minimum livelihood guarantee program (known as the dibao) a programme introduced nationwide in 1999 whose number of participants had reached nearly twenty million by 2012.[78] Reza Hasmath and Andrew MacDonald have found that minorities appear to be more likely to be enrolled in the dibao programme than the Han majority. “[76]”https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_minorities_in_China

  317. denk says:
    @Reuben Kaspate

    So your speculation also counts for ‘evidence’ now ?

    Its the 5lies thats trying to genocide Chinese worldwide as I explain to lady HausaMaus.
    The evidence are all there, indisputable.

    You’r a very shifty customer,
    I doubt your’r even what you claim to be, likely an imposter.

    YOu can go fly a kite,.

    The yellow rats, the mohameds....

    Are you mr Ganesh per chance.

    • Replies: @Reuben Kaspate
  318. Joe Wong says:
    @Jus' Sayin'...

    There were possibly 50 million Native Americans when the Europeans first arrived North America more than 300 years ago. The European immigrants slaughtered them nearly all with brutality, cruelty, insanity and wicked motivation beyond any normal human beings could possibly image. Nowadays, there are only about 2.5 million Native American left in the USA.

    Here is a documentary revealing part of what the White did in the North America, https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/canary-effect/.

    Have the Americans (the non-natives) changed from the savages described in the film “The Canary Effect”? Not a bit, the Americans have been wrecking havoc around the world the same way they have wrecked havoc to the native Americans ever since. Insane, mad, crazy, psychopathic, double think, morally defunct, blood thirsty, savage… are not bad enough to describe the true nature of the Americans.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
    , @Svigor
  319. @Talha

    But the Zos’moved to India, became millionaires when the British built up Mumbai and today they are one of the wealthiest groups in the world.

    So maybe it evened out.

  320. @Joe Wong

    Fuji Chinese did the same in Taiwan to the aboriginals. Chinese nearly wiped out the aboriginals.

    If you want to go back further, the “Yellow Hordes” from Western China swept through Eastern Europe and killed and enslaved millions.

    • Replies: @Joe Wong
    , @Joe Wong
  321. @Reuben Kaspate

    Chinese take over other countries through economic hegemony like Indonesia, Philippines, Malaysia.

    Once the population is desperate, poor and needs a vacation the Chinese then manufacture crystal meth and dump it on the miserable populations. See Philippines.

    Australians who embrace China as their own market dominant minority should take a trip to Philippines to see what happens when a country is run by Fuji Chinese family cartels.

  322. Joe Wong says:
    @Talha

    Since an investigative dream team evenhandedly investigate China’s actions in the region AND America’s has not be set up to do the investigation, why do you believe the claim made by a Western corporate media like Reuters is credible by default? Are you saying the West’s words must be taken as given truth?

    The Western corporate media are notorious bias, sensational, misleading and dis-informational. All the news leading to the West’s invasion wars in the Middles East have proven the western corporate media are their government proxies, mouthpieces, propaganda agents and untrustworthy.

    It seems you are so deep in the ideology you even don’t know you have one.

    • Replies: @Talha
  323. denk says:
    @A123

    including uncontaminated sources. For example:

    https://www.businessinsider.com/what-is-life-like-in-xinjiang-reeducation-camps-

    The BI is another anti Chinese rag, there aint no uncontaminated sources in US , even MOA/UNZ/SAKER are crawling with agent provocateurs.

    FYI,
    I am banned by BI for my ‘anti murikkans’ rants.

  324. The re-education camps story is mostly fake news. No different than “animal Assad is gassing his own people” shtick. Sad that so many fall for the same ol war propaganda over and over again.

    Fool me once! Apparently you can fool some repeatedly, with the same BS. That or Unz is being flooded with Centcom sock puppets.

    Hint to those easily duped: Always assume the corporate media/establishment is lying to you, ALWAYS, because THEY ARE.

    China is just getting ahead of CIA and Saudi meddling there, trying to stir up the Muslims in China the same way they’ve done in so many other places using Al Qaeda, ISIS, etc. etc.

    https://grayzoneproject.com/2018/08/23/un-did-not-report-china-internment-camps-uighur-muslims/

    https://theduran.com/fake-news-1-million-uighur-in-chinese-internment-camps-video/

    • Replies: @denk
  325. @Talha

    TALHA

    It was brought by Omani seafarers, probably from Sohar like Sinbad the sailor.

    Oman was the first seafaring Arab nation of any real consequence. Hindus brought the alphabet to Southeast Asia but it was Omanis who really colonized Malaysia.

    No other Arab country besides Oman was ever a sea power.

  326. Talha says:
    @Vidi

    What I had claimed was that the allegations were credible (to me) enough to warrant further investigation. If I had made a definitive claim, I would hardly be following it up with a “I hope it’s not true”.

    I look forward to the results of an impartial third party investigation to flesh out which of the allegations are true or false.

    Peace.

  327. Talha says:
    @Joe Wong

    Are you saying the West’s words must be taken as given truth?

    No, I am looking forward to a further impartial inquiry (preferably made up of a neutral international team); why does this upset you? Don’t you want China to be vindicated by irrefutable evidence and the US to have massive egg on its face?

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Joe Wong
  328. @Anonymous

    ANONYMOUS

    Your thinking is the reason for the occasional anti-Chinese massacres like 1969 or 1997 in Indonesia, to be honest. They happen because Fuji Chinese think the way that you do.

    And here are the downsides to a Chinese market dominant minority.

    1. Unlike the Jews, they don’t assimilate at all. Period. They are an alien, arrogant, hostile bunch of shopkeepers whose only participation in politics is to bribe politicians to their own ends, like preventing the formation of unions.

    2. Their racism and sense of racial superiority is glaringly apparent.

    3. Their greed has no ethical boundaries.

    4. They pay workers nothing.

    5. When the South Asians encroach upon their market dominant minority hegemony in Malaysia or Westerners in Philippines they react badly and will resort to arson or simply refusing to rent space in their buildings to non-Chinese business people. This is why foreign investment is small.

    6. As a result, locals have no choice but to work for the Fuji Chinese for slave wages. When one single American company moves to the Philippines, everybody wants to work there for a decent wage.

    7. They are gambling addicts and this social pathology manifests itself in loan shark violence, organized crime, embezzlement (Often from their own family businesses), armed robbery.

    8. When they do join the military they are corrupt. In the Philippines, the Chinese generals are involved in the meth trade. Duturte is willing to shoot 14 year old squatters but not the Chinese generals who actually distribute crystal meth in bulk.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Joe Wong
  329. @Svigor

    The Dzungar genocide was carried out by the Manchus, you moron. The Han Chinese were themselves victims of Manchu domination under the Qing dynasty.

    • Replies: @Svigor
  330. Joe Wong says:
    @simple_pseudonymic_handle

    If you believe some satellite images posted by a rogue internet poster as detention camps, there is a good news for you, I have a bridge to sell, it is a red suspension bridge over the San Francisco Bay.

  331. Joe Wong says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    The “Yellow Hordes” were the Mongols, Uyghurs, Tibetians, Middle Easterners, Russians, and Easter Europeans. Han Chinese were the victim too, but the White has been blaming the Han Chinese for the crimes committed by the “Yellow Hordes” ever since. In the Orientalism, and the current demonization against Chinese were all based on that wicked believe. Please blame the correct perpetrators and do not double victimize the Chinese to whitewash your crimes.

    Taiwanese do not believe they are Chinese, they are your, the White and unrepentant war criminal Japanese, allies. It is your ally did the crime, not Chinese.

    • Replies: @Svigor
    , @Jeff Stryker
  332. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:
    @Reuben Kaspate

    If the Chinese create the first world like Singapore then they can thank the White West but the Malay can only thank the Arabs for his malaise… Islam is not conducive to progress, given it requires progressive mindset.

    You’re half right. Islam is a problem, as acceptance of a whole bunch of logically indefensible beliefs certainly weakens the logical mind and stifles creativity, but don’t forget that the Malays are astronesians and they’ve got a genetic disadvantage also.

    If you want to rule out the genetic component, the Malaysian Muslim Indians are a good topic of study. They’re much more diligent and hard working, and they’re able to build some very large private businesses (mainly dealing with their niche industries like Halal food). On the other hand, they’re very conservative and definitely not going to give rise to any scientific breakthroughs and time soon.

  333. Joe Wong says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    It was the Japanese did the inhuman crimes against the Taiwan aboriginals like the Europeans did to the Native Americans, not even the Fuji Chinese.

  334. @denk

    Yes! Demp Denk, I am who you want me to be but the real question is, who are you? Am I smelling a chinaman or a follower of a Beddou? Speak up son, we can’t hear you!

    P. S. Pay attention to what Jeff Stryker is saying about it.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
    , @denk
  335. Seraphim says:
    @peterAUS

    Isn’t better to have a peaceful ‘reeducation’ of the Uighurs than to come to the measures taken against the Dungan and Panthay rebellions, whose aim was to establish an Islamic state in western China – and of course, against ‘corruption’ -, connected to the Taiping rebellion, supported by the Ottomans and the British), brutally quashed by the Qing with a little help from the Russians?

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  336. Talha says:
    @denk

    abuse of the Rohingha

    Didn’t need the UN, anybody with two eyes could see thousands of pencil-thin villagers trying to cross into Bangladesh by land or boats. There were plenty of local journalists that did interviews about villages being burnt down and villagers being pushed out.

    Why doest the UNHRC, the ‘highest court on human rights’, go after UKUS

    They most certainly should. You forgot a boat load of countries in South America too.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
    , @denk
    , @denk
    , @Anon
    , @Anon
  337. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    Especially now that more local Chinese have become Muslim over the years

    Very very few. It’s a tiny minority. Aside from some niche ethnic groups from way back when, a Chinese will only convert in order to marry a Malay. At this point, their bloodline is basically forever stuck on the Malay side of the wall and it doesn’t really make sense to count their descendants as Chinese. It’s a very very rare occurrence and I’ve only met a handful of first generation converted Chinese.

    Hui Muslims have been moving into Malaysia since the eighties

    I had no idea about this. I’m guessing their numbers must be small.

    What you are describing is kind of what happens when a place stops running on a merit-based system.

    It’s what happens when Britain leaves behind an egalitarian Westminster democracy and assumes the natives will play fair. This division into Malays and Chinese was fostered by the political class right from the get-go and it has deliberately been provoked so as to cleanly divide Malaysia into the entitled class and the productive class. It’s a threat in all democracies but it was particularly easy in Malaysia as the natural race boundaries lent themselves so well to political exploitation.

    As far as Malaysia being for Malays, well isn’t that kind of what everyone says except certain Western countries that want to import the world?

    Absolutely not. What exactly are Malays, Talha? If you go to Indonesia and ask them what is a Malay, they will tell you that Malays are one of the tribes from East Sumatra, who are different to the Batak, Minang, Aceh, and all the other Sumatran tribes. They are a world away from the Betawi, the Javanese, the Sundanese, and even further from the Balinese, Bugis, and all the East Indonesians. In other words, the Indonesian view of ‘Malay’ is historically accurate – they are just one of the many local tribes who now make up Indonesia.

    On the other hand, if you go across to Malaysia, you find out that Malay was actually defined by the British and has a much wider ranging definition that basically includes any of the tribes that the Indonesians would see as separate. This means that when Bugis from Sulawesi or Javanese from Java migrate to Malaysia, they automatically become Malay and hence ‘native’, yet when Chinese migrate the much shorter distance from Medan to Penang, they’re always considered non-native outsiders.

    The truth is, Malaysia was historically sparsely populated and hosted many different settlements who never really ran into each other. The sultans looked after their core interests only and were quite happy to allow immigrants from all over to found their own towns and villages in land that was ostensibly under their sultanate. This means that over time, lots of Javanese founded Kampung Java’s all over Malaysia, while the Chinese founded their own villages and towns. Today, the Javanese are considered to be 100% Malay and therefore bumiputera while the Chinese are considered to be ‘from China’.

    I’m not sure it would be a smart idea for them to simply open up their country for mass settlement by Chinese from the mainland.

    Definitely not. But this is not the issue. The issue is Malaysian Chinese families who have been here for many generations and who settled on empty land and built their cities from absolutely nothing. No one ever said anything to them back then and now suddenly the Malays are upset that the Chinese are eating too much pork.

    I’ll tell you what it’s about – it’s jealousy. The Malays have sat in their villages doing absolutely nothing while Malaysia has been built around them by everyone except them. The British founded the economic centers, maintained clean corruption free systems, defended the country against existential threats, and created an environment where progress could take place. The Chinese worked hard for many generations and built up their cities, and now the foreign workers are coming in by the millions to do the jobs that Malays don’t want or can’t be bothered to do to an acceptable standard. The Malays didn’t create anything, do very little genuinely useful work, and are basically a non-essential part of the country.

    Do they have some guest worker visa thing going on where Chinese can come in as workers for a while, make a bunch of money and then go back to China? Maybe that would solve some problems.

    Firstly, you assume that Malaysia owes something to mainland Chinese. It doesn’t. Secondly, you assume that the mainland Chinese would go back. They wouldn’t. So this solution would be of benefit to no one, especially the Malaysian Chinese who consider the mainland Chinese to be ignorant, uncultured and exploitative.

    Thirdly, official visa policy is entirely irrelevant. Remember, Malaysia is run by the Malays. This means all the immigration officers are Malay and all of the police are Malay. Malays have no principles and are quite happy to allow a truckload of Myanmar workers in from Thailand in exchange for a few hundred ringgit per head. When the police do their spot checks in the street, they’re also very happy to leave the illegal workers alone in exchange for 50-200 ringgit per head. When immigration raid a factory, they’ll take the workers to the station but they’ll deliberately wait a while before clocking them into the system … this gives the Chinese boss a few hours to pay the bribe so the workers can be silently released again. This is normally RM 1000 per head.

    Who would be doing these jobs if the illegal workers were sent home? Malays! So when the immigration officers and police are taking bribes, they are deliberately selling out their own people. It’s ok… tak apa

    Chinese culture in Malaysia does seem to be quite productive except in one key area; babies. They need to work on that.

    Agreed!

    If they allowed me to choose where my tax money would be allocated, that would be awesome, but as of now, I don’t have that choice or whether I want to pay it.

    We both know they’ll never give such freedom. Your freedom is your ability to choose whether to keep feeding the beast or to move elsewhere.

    • Replies: @Erebus
  338. Joe Wong says:
    @Svigor

    In the USA, 1% owing 50% of national wealth while the 80% of the poor owns 5% of the national wealth, the Americans believe it is legitimate and righteous. If such inequality appears in China, a revolution will happen long time ago already. The Americans are either stupid or suckers, that’s why they are so content to be rip off.

  339. peterAUS says:
    @Seraphim

    It is.

    I have one for you:
    Wasn’t it better to peacefully send all those guys in Gulags under Stalin then to summarily execute them?

    I have more but you get the drift, I hope.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  340. Svigor says:
    @Obsequious

    Bullshit. It was ordered by a Manchu-dominated regime and carried out by a majority Han populace.

    Besides, Manchus are Chinese – China be diverse n’ sheeeiit, remember, Chinks?

    Lying Chink fucks.

    There were probably countless Chink-executed genocides in China’s past; the difference in the Dzungar genocide being, in the 18th century Whitey was around to document TMB (Typical Mongoloid Behavior).

    • Replies: @Obsequious
  341. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    As far as pork; ownership and consumption of such has always been a protected right of non-Muslims in Muslim lands so Muslims have to just deal with it if they get triggered.

    It’s funny (in Malaysia) how easily they get triggered by this. My understand is that the Quaran says a Muslim should not eat it…. it doesn’t say they should be repulsed at the idea of entering a venue at which it might be served.

    Islam has lots and lots of laws. Usury is forbidden, yet Malays regularly take loans. Intoxicants are forbidden but Malays love to smoke. Extramarital sex is forbidden, and yet Malays love to use prostitutes. Alcohol is strictly forbidden, yet it’s consumption is only considered slightly naughty.

    So why the disproportionately strong emphasis on pork? I think this reflects the level of consciousness of the Malays, which is strongly centered around eating and has little appreciation for abstract concepts like diligence and honesty.

    • Replies: @Reuben Kaspate
  342. Svigor says:
    @Joe Wong

    Lol, there were “possibly” a hundred quadrillion bazillion, but it’s not really plausible. And neither is 50 million.

    The slaughter thing must be some Chink mythology they teach in Chink schools; avoid, if you want anything approaching a real grasp on history. It’s just Chink projection, as east Asian history is filled with brutality, cruelty, insanity, and wickedness beyond the White man’s comprehension.

    • Replies: @Joe Wong
  343. Svigor says:
    @Joe Wong

    The “Yellow Hordes” were the Mongols, Uyghurs, Tibetians, Middle Easterners, Russians, and Easter Europeans. Han Chinese were the victim too, but the White has been blaming the Han Chinese for the crimes committed by the “Yellow Hordes” ever since. In the Orientalism, and the current demonization against Chinese were all based on that wicked believe. Please blame the correct perpetrators and do not double victimize the Chinese to whitewash your crimes.

    Joe has a bit of a point here. The Mongols probably killed more Chinks than they did anyone else. They certainly plundered more from the Chinks than from anyone else.

    Which isn’t to say that Chinks and Mongols aren’t the same continental-level race, because they are.

    And it isn’t to say that “the west” has been blaming Chinks for the Mongols, because they haven’t. That’s just more of Joe’s sweaty, slanty-eyed lunacy.

    Edit: actually, 50m might be a plausible figure for all of the Americas. I doubt it, but it might, as long as the vast majority are stipulated to have lived in south and central America. Meaning, their deaths are on spic heads – ancestors of today’s brown Mexicans/squatemalan/etc.

    I mean if Joe wasn’t such a stupid, dark-skinned, slope-headed, slanty-eyed, greasy lil coolie he’d understand that it’s stupid to blame all the deaths of Amerinds on “Whitey,” then object to anyone blaming the Mongol’s depredations on “yellows.” Lol.

    • Replies: @Joe Wong
  344. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    The fire worshippers had an empire, they lost it. If you want to have an empire, learn how to keep it.

    Can we apply this one to the Malays in Malaysia?

    • Replies: @Talha
  345. Talha says:
    @Reuben Kaspate

    the medieval Arabs might have kept their little empire in Spain

    They deserved to lose it. They were quibbling among themselves for tiny kingdoms and allying with Christian monarchs to one-up each other, not to mention the decadence. When the last Muslim ruler of Granada signed over sovereignty to the Reconquista, he started to weep and his mother upbraided him, saying: “Do not weep like a woman for what you could not defend as a man.”

    There is no god…

    Atheists are always just half-way there – they have mastered the negation of false gods.

    it won’t help them land on the far side of moon

    You have your priorities, we have ours – to expect Muslims to have the same priorities and outlook as people who disbelieve in God is silly. Why would we?

    get your 72

    Good things come to those who wait…

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Reuben Kaspate
  346. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Tell your friend if he wants to use a VPN to use a registered provider.

    Unauthorized VPNs are used by crooks and spies.

    The government is not interested in blocking information: they want to block the massive disinformation originating from Western media and apps like FB and Twitter.

    Godfree, if you can type that with a straight face and no qualms, then how can you expect us to take seriously anything else you’ve written?

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  347. JackGarbo says:
    @simple_pseudonymic_handle

    The “satellite images” of “detention camps” are suspiciously clearer than their surroundings and colored (?). Also the image of buildings, with no people, does not indicate much more. Again the sharpness of the buildings is suspicious – Photoshop at work?
    Checked the co-ordinates on my Googleearth, couldn’t find the buildings.
    Next, medium.com is an Amazon operation (check with ‘whois medium.com’), ie CIA connected.
    So, I’d be rather skeptical about anything anti-Chinese coming from this site.

  348. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    You seem to have had a very different experience with overseas Chinese.

    My experience is mostly in Malaysia and I’ve found most of them to be good people, especially the big city cosmopolitan types.

    The big difference between the Chinese and the Jews is that the Jews are parasites and must forever be a minority leaching off a bigger host, while the Chinese are very happy to build their own self-sufficient economies from rice farming up to high tech industry.

    Perhaps in The Philippines the Chinese are a minority and feel under attack all the time, whereas in Malaysia they have their own majority areas in which they can relax and live sustainably.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  349. Joe Wong says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    You are trolling the European white washing propaganda in the last few hundred years. The anti-Chinese massacres since WWII all were engineered by the CIA and MI6 to wrest control from local resistance against the Japanese in order to reassert their colonial rule they lost to the Japanese during the WWII. Killing the Chinese was part of the ruthless takeover to wipe out economic competitors to their Colonial Hongs.

    When the Europeans arrived South East Asia, they found it has vibrant commercial societies; Chinese was a well-established commercial force in the area. Dutch, Spanish, English, etc. found they had neither the money nor the smart to establish a foothold in the area, so they instigated hatred to divide Local population and the Chinese, and then they engineered anti-Chinese massacres in order to establish colonies over the South East Asia.

    The White always resorts to violence and lies when they cannot compete. The American lost trade, technology and financial competitions to Chinese, they resort to wars and lies again as they are doing right now.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  350. Talha says:
    @Anonymous

    Is it really a good thing, though?

    It’s really up to them to decide since I’m not Malay; Jawi was working for centuries for them.

    Wouldn’t it be better if they spent their time learning English?

    Again, up to them. I don’t see why a determined person can’t become relatively conversational in around 3 languages, so I don’t see this as an “either/or” scenario personally. If they can add on Chinese, even better.

    So who drives the porche and who fits a family of 5 on a 100cc motorbike?

    Yeah, but you mentioned in a bunch of posts how they keep taking over your turf. You might have nicer cars, but they run the show.

    God forbid if the the bangla gets himself a malay girlfriend.

    LOL! Serves them right for being racist.

    It seems to me your understanding of Muslims is that they’re principled, Talha.

    No, bro – I’ve met enough Muslims in my life to know many don’t live principled lives. But that’s how it goes – if you don’t live by the principles of the religion, you get what’s coming to you.

    the malays always took the easy route out and struck agreements every time a challenger arose. First, the British, then the Chinese, now the simultaneous threats of mainland Chinese and Bangladeshi workers.

    Very interesting point. I must admit, I haven’t read as much about the Malays and their resistance (or lack thereof) against colonizers as much as I have, say, the Javans and Sumatrans – those guys fought hard, even got some engineering help from the Ottomans to build canons.*

    Again, thanks much for your insights (and levity) – I hope you stick around. If you Chinese Malays ever converted en masse, they would have a very, very difficult time legitimizing discrimination against you for long. You could take over.

    Peace.

    *Side note: Did you know Indonesia and Turkey were collaborating on military design? They’ve built a medium tank thus far and a couple of other things, if I recall.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  351. @Joe Wong

    JOE WRONG

    There would have been 50 more Nankings if white countries had not defeated the Japanese and today you female relatives would be some Japanese colonists comfort women.

    White Americans do not consider themselves to be Europeans but they came from Europe to America before the Chinese got to Taiwan.

    As a matter of fact, the Dutch were in Taiwan before the Chinese and were defeated and driven out.

    • Replies: @Joe Wong
  352. @Talha

    When I was in Dhaka the old-timers still felt the same way about Pakistanis and the lawyer I worked with would celebrate when one of them in jail was executed like 43 years after the war.

    • Replies: @Talha
  353. Joe Wong says:
    @Talha

    The Americans do not interest in truth, they are only interested in imperialist global hegemony, colonial exploitation, zero-sum cold war destruction, and blinding one god ideology missionary mission to convert everybody like them, no diversity is allowed.

    History has proven the USA and its allies are liars, and they are morally defunct. They have benn bombing and killing on the fabricated phantom WMD allegations as humanitarian intervention. The USA and its allies will not let you have impartial inquiry. And they will smear, sanction, boycott or threaten the UN and the safety of anyone trying to reveal the American’s involvement of all those mayhems.

    The American and their allies have the world media, they will make your idea appears as a terrorist or communist attempting to sabotage human rights, freedom and democracy.

    The West always insist their words must be taken as given truth. Anybody tries to question them, they will be labelled destroying world’s law and order with punishment.

  354. Svigor says:
    @anon

    Nothing happens in a vacuum, chinker-jew. If you weren’t such a dumb fuck, you’d have noticed that I never heaped opprobrium on the Chinks for genociding the Dzungars. Any such you attribute to me is projection. (caveat: I do point out the megadeath propensity of Chinks/yellows, which is only fair)

    E.g., this is me, you stupid Chink:

    The Dzungars were a confederation of several Tibetan Buddhist Oirat Mongols tribes that emerged suddenly in the early 17th century. The Dzungar Khanate was the last great nomadic empire in Asia.

    I wholeheartedly approve the genocide of nomadic empires of Mongol tribes.

    The subtext of all my crit of ChinkNats is that they use western leftist criteria to criticize the West, which is a losing fucking battle.

    It’s the same story with the dumb fuck RusNats. Clueless, the lot of you.

    • Replies: @anon
  355. @Reuben Kaspate

    REUBEN

    I believe Denk mentioned being Singaporean Chinese. He will have to correct FUKUS if that UKUS is mistaken.

    Amy Chau mentioned in WORLD ON FIRE that one Canadian ex-army husband of a Chinese woman in Indonesia tried unsuccessfully to organize his wife’s market-dominant minority into a defensive force but Chinese-Indonesians had relied on bribery and corruption and had no idea how to fight back or defend themselves from the Malays.

    Chinese-Filipinos attempted to overthrow the Spanish in the Philippines under Jose Rizal and were defeated horribly, leading to the ill-feeling between Spanish Mestizos and Chinese Filipinos in the Philippines today. Same as Jews in Russia or Indians in Uganda.

    As the Serbian Milsovic said of the Muslim Yugoslavian market-dominant minority “If we don’t know how to work or do business well by god we know how to fight!”

    Similar to the Koreans in the LA black ghetto who sold liquor and nutmeg to twelve year old kids and brawled with their black customers, the Chinese oblivious to their consumer/slave base…until too lte…

    Chinese in Southeast Asia themselves resent and behave violently towards competing market-dominant minorities. In Cebu they raped and killed a Spanish Filipino girl. They have been known to burn down American or Korean businesses in the Philippines which are backed by foreign investment they cannot compete with and Koreans are hated by Chinese-Filipinos in particular.

    In Malaysia and Singapore the conflict is with Indians, of course

    • Replies: @Reuben Kaspate
    , @denk
  356. Svigor says:

    It’s the same story with the dumb fuck RusNats. Clueless, the lot of you.

    Stop sucking up to the (((Globo-homo leftist elites))), you stupid shits.

    They’re doomed. Old news. On Their Way Out.

  357. Seraphim says:
    @denk

    Isn’t because Myanmar ‘disappointed’ the UKUS in not dancing to their tune and turning to China instead of becoming a spoke in the wheels of China, for which they worked so hard for years on end? Should not Myanmar be taught a lesson and treated with a dose of R2P? Make it a new Kosovo, Libya, Syria? Inflame all the ‘ummah’ to ask “Why aren’t we Muslims thinking about forming a NATO-like joint military force that can intervene in such situations?”, because “The crimes of the government of Myanmar will not be halted without using military force”?
    The links with the Uighurs are too obvious.
    The thing is that sympathy for Muslims terrorists is fortunately waning.

    • Replies: @denk
  358. @Utred

    Alexander the great was the fourth century BC. To refer to people who have inhabited a region for 25 centuries as an invading imperialist army rather than indigenous locals strikes me as a little absurd. I’m trying to make the point that Roberts’ article makes some pretty big statements, like this invading imperialist army thing, without substantiating it at all. I note he hasn’t replied to my honest question. Exactly what army are you talking about Mr. Roberts?

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  359. @Reuben Kaspate

    BLOG ON FIRE – A COMPARISON OF MARKET-DOMINANT MINORITIES

    Jews in the US/Wiemar Germany and Chinese in Southeast Asia have often been compared as market-dominant minorities as well as Indians in Africa. Here is my opinion-

    1) Chinese and Jews seem to have global networks while the Koreans in the LA ghettos or the Indians in Africa did not. Their supply chain was local. One way that Chinese-Filipinos really struck a blow to the Spanish Mestizos was when Ramos lifted the tariffs on food imports, for example.

    2) Jews display a fairly impressive verbal dexterity that lends itself to the media, law, politics, journalism. Chinese in Southeast Asia don’t. They have no social graces with the Malays and no ability to really subvert the culture as Jews are accused of doing.

    3) If Jews are racist towards Gentiles, they hide it well. Chinese in Southeast Asia like Koreans in the LA ghetto could not hide their contempt for the predominant population at all.

    4) The Malays like African-Americans have been given quota jobs in order to prevent non-stop racial conflict. Chinese in Malaysia like Jews in the US are well aware that if they were not and a meritocracy existed, the Malays are more violent and primitive and numerous and would win the battle. Just as blacks would in cities that are still important like NYC or Chicago.

    5) Unlike the British or Dutch in South Africa who were both adept at business and at war, the merchant races like Chinese and Jews or Muslim Yugoslavians are not warriors. When insurrection breaks out, they don’t stand a chance.

    6) The US has so many market-dominant groups with business acumen-Iranians, Gujarati, Italians, WASP puritans, Koreans, Japanese, Nigerians, Basque Cubans and white (Iberian) Hispanics in general-that neither Chinese or Jews can get the complete hold on the economy so that the rest of the population has no choice but to work for them. Jewish cultural subversion in the form of pornography or Hollywood has no affect on non-whites or ethnic whites like the Italian-Americans. Competing market-dominant minorities hold one another in check to some degree. In Southeast Asia Chinese own everything and the Malays have nowhere else to work.

    7) Market-dominant minorities create a rural/urban divide. In the US this is most apparent between the rednecks and the Jews in the form of East Coast vs. South or LA vs. Flyover or whatever. But to some degree, it is exists everywhere.

    8) Intense racial conflict between COMPETING market-dominant minorities arises. We see this in Singapore between Indians and Chinese. And between Chinese and Spanish Mestizos in the Philippines. It occurred to some degree between Irish-Catholics and Jews in the US.

    9) Successful intermarriage. Chinese in some Southeast Asian countries intermarry and thus offset the racial animosity. Mostly it is males marrying token trophy wives or rich merchants offering their daughters to the local aristocracy. Jews did both.

  360. Yee says:

    Talha,

    “Well, since I just called for international scrutiny and exposure of US prisons and detention centers which have been pointed out as violating human rights norms, you can put that criticism aside.”

    US prisons? That’s what you’re unhappy with the US government with?

    Oh, Talha, are you sure you’re a Muslim? I’m starting to think you’re not.

    • Replies: @Talha
  361. @giraffehead

    Punjabi are 15% Greek and that is about the extent of Greco-Indian DNA. Alexander passed through Pakistan and other places but other than Punjab there little DNA of Alexander’s forces in South Asia.

  362. @Svigor

    Your attempt to pin the Dzungar genocide on the Han Chinese is pathetic. You yourself have admitted that the genocide was the policy of the Manchus, except you still try to obfuscate by claiming it was “a Manchu-dominated regime”. You got called out on your bullshit, deal with it, you fucking cunt.

    And back in those Qing Dynasty days the Manchus hadn’t yet been sinicised and they still ruled the Han Chinese as an elite minority that was distinctly foreign.

  363. @Joe Wong

    JOE WRONG

    “Imperialist hegemony”

    It is the Filipinos who plead with whites to keep you from invading their country, though since your overseas Chinese own its economy I don’t see what possible difference it makes at this point.

    “Colonial exploitation”

    The US has no colonies. Its attempts to temporarily control Iraq or Vietnam were failures and 100,000 Americans died.

    “Missionaries”

    Jews are influential in the US and not Mormons. There will never be Jewish missionaries because they don’t care a whit about converting anyone. If you do convert, become a Jew.

    • Replies: @Reuben Kaspate
  364. Escher says:
    @peterAUS

    I wonder: if China is so great, why does the author live in Thailand?

  365. Talha says:
    @Yee

    US prisons?

    The subject was scrutiny of prisons and detention centers that’s why I mentioned this.

    If I could press a button that would stop US wars overseas, destabilization efforts, and bring home all troops and shutter all our overseas bases – I’d do it in a heartbeat.

    People here still seem to think I look at things in some simple binary way.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Che Guava
  366. @Joe Wong

    JOE WRONG

    CIA had nothing to do with the 1997 destruction of Chinese-Indonesians. That was a spontaneous eruption of anti-Chinese sentiment, not a CIA plot. The 1969 Malaysian anti-Chinese pogrom was the result of Chinese-Malaysians burning the national flag and was also a spontaneous occurrence.

    Chinese did not emigrate en mass to Hong Kong or Singapore or Philippines until after the English and Spanish arrived despite none of these European powers having the intelligence or money to colonize Southeast Asia, apparently.

    Chinese traders did not even build roads in the Philippines much less united a bunch of squabbling Muslim fiefdoms into a country. And I know from having worked with Chinese-Filipinos that most of them immigrated when it was a US colony and then again after World War II.

    The Spanish were Arab mixed-bloods from Andalusia anyhow but the Philippines was actually better when it was a US colony run by their syndicate of Spanish Mestizos. When a Chinese-Filipino named Marcos took over, that was when the country went downhill into corruption and kleptomania.

    • Troll: Che Guava
    • Replies: @Joe Wong
  367. Talha says:
    @Joe Wong

    The Americans do not interest in truth

    Agreed, thus my mention of a neutral third party investigation.

    The USA and its allies will not let you have impartial inquiry.

    Well, there is a difference between what I would like to have happen and what may or may not happen. The discussion I am having is what I would like to have happen. I would also like the US to withdraw completely from the Middle East as of yesterday…but is that going to happen?

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  368. Che Guava says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    Jeff,

    Last I was reading of a genetic study on Ainu people, it was producing a close genetic connection with American Indians, Canadian, of course, but I think the American Indians in the U.S.A. are generally refusing to go along with genetic studies, it is a good thing.

    I am the same. Those wanting any such info. can go to hell. I have a pretty good idea of my own ancestry, but am never giving any DNA to anybody, unless through and for reproduction, with somebody I care for.

    Really, I think you have little knowledge, and are just being a troll.

    To say ‘they look Lebanese’, you are either an imbecile, or have no power of observation.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  369. Talha says:
    @Anonymous

    Yup – see my note about the Moorish kingdoms in Spain. In the age of empires, you play to win. If you lose, don’t be a wuss and cry about it.

    Peace.

  370. @Anonymous

    The difference between the Jews in the US and the Chinese in Southeast Asia is that they do not have such an economic stranglehold over the US economy that they are driving around in Porches while the local Malays run around barefoot and totally impoverished in the street.

    They are powerful and influential but do not own as much of the wealth as the Chinese in Southeast Asia.

    Also they are not responsible for the narco economy of the Philippines.

    I’ve never been to Malaysia, by the way. I worked with Chinese-Filipinos and lived with them (And did other things with them) for three years. Not all of my experiences were good.

    I’m married to an ethnic Chinese in another Southeast country and we have two children. Which, by the way, I send to a Chinese school.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  371. @Escher

    Because China is colder and more expensive.

  372. Anonymous[469] • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    Again, up to them. I don’t see why a determined person can’t become relatively conversational in around 3 languages, so I don’t see this as an “either/or” scenario personally. If they can add on Chinese, even better.

    Yes, but we’re not talking about determined people. We’re talking about Malays.

    Yeah, but you mentioned in a bunch of posts how they keep taking over your turf. You might have nicer cars, but they run the show.

    It’s an ongoing battle. After independence and the departure of Singapore, I’d say the malays were winning. But recently, they’ve shot themselves in the foot by allowing millions of legal and illegal foreign workers into the country who keep basic wages low and render Malays economically irrelevant. Even worse, most of them are Muslim so they can take their women. If they spend long enough, they can even get citizenship. Who is that going to benefit? Banglas may be Muslim but they sure as hell have no interest in working even harder just so the malays can eat for free.

    Incidentally, this is why corruption is so rife and impossible to eradicate. Malays hold all the political power but have very little honest income, while Chinese control the private sector but have very little direct power in all branches of the government. A trade is only natural!

    LOL! Serves them right for being racist.

    Yes, and their lack of solidarity with other Muslims shows what this is all really about. It’s about ketuanan melayu, malay supremacy. It’s pure racism at the core, and religion is just a tool.

    If you Chinese Malays ever converted en masse, they would have a very, very difficult time legitimizing discrimination against you for long. You could take over.

    What’s a Chinese Malay? Malay is a (pseudo) race, Malaysian is the nationality.

    And who says I’m Chinese Malaysian anyway? You making assumptions?

    And finally, remember this is about ketuanan melayu and using religion as an excuse to discriminate against Chinese. If Chinese entered islam en masse, the malays would just change the goal posts. Muslim Chinese are already denied bumiputera status even if their families have been Malaysian and Muslims since before independence. Indonesia makes the discrimination clearer by using the ‘pribumi’ term and avoiding religion altogether.

    • Replies: @Talha
  373. Talha says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    I can understand this, there were many war crimes committed in Bangladesh by the Pakistani army that many in Pakistan have not come to terms with. The relationship between the two countries is still recovering due to this.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  374. Che Guava says:
    @Talha

    Well, you do look at things in a simple binary way, Islam vs. the rest of the World.

    So, don’t fake it.

    • Replies: @Talha
  375. denk says:
    @Talha

    It doesnt bother you that the criminals are holding court right now ?

    Do you appoint criminals as judges over there ?

    • Replies: @Talha
  376. denk says:
    @Talha

    *Didn’t need the UN, anybody with two eyes could see thousands of pencil-thin villagers trying to cross into Bangladesh by land or boats. There were plenty of local journalists that did interviews about villages being burnt down and villagers being pushed out.*

    Fool me once….
    These days, nothing is what it seems,
    Images, videos can be so deceiving,
    Kosovo, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Sudan, China, Myanmar..

    ‘Indeed, the Rohingha crisis is following a pattern which is so well-worn now that it has almost become routine. Saturation reporting from a crisis region; emergency calls for help broadcast on the electronic media (such as the one recently on the BBC Radio 4 flagship ‘Today’ programme); televised pictures of refugees; lurid stories of “mass rapes”, which are surely designed to titillate as much to provoke outrage; reproachful evocations of the Rwandan genocide; demands that something must be done (”How can we stand idly by?”, etc.); editorials in the Daily Telegraph calling for a return to the days of Rudyard Kipling’s benevolent imperialism[6]; and, finally, the announcement that plans are indeed being drawn up for an intervention. ‘

    http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/27e/764.html

    • Replies: @Talha
  377. denk says:
    @Reuben Kaspate

    YOu mean that js who’s been banished to my bozo file for more than a year now ?
    You’ve such a good taste,
    hhhhhhehe

    • Replies: @Reuben Kaspate
  378. Che Guava says:

    Denk, the place is infested with such now, and they are thinking they are so clever, user Stryker is also a stupid progandist, most of them (as he) are Zionist propaganda trolls. They are time wasters, that is their aim.

    From recent patterns, I would think that this is a selected practise ground for Israeli troll armies (not that it is the fault of Mr. Unz), but I would guarantee, given access to the IP addresses and address ranges, I could ridicule them to death as such. Not asking for it, but had some time in that role, as admin., always correct when checking IP addresses for pests.

    Have neither wish nor time now for such role here, but would encouraging others to spot, alienate by replies, and shame, zio-state-sponsporsed trolls.

    Would guess that it is multiple address ranges here.

    It is easy to see who is here for a long time, who is new, and through the glass of spotting the Israeli propagandists, to see them.

    So, of course, supporting you as comrade, Denk, you are a n00b, of course, no universal agreement, but am generally liking what you say.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
    , @denk
  379. denk says:
    @Seraphim

    Exactly.

    Aung San used to be their poster child to lead Myanmar.
    now that the lady is showing some independent traits , the UsualSuspects incite and weaponise the Rohingha insurgency to put pressure on their former darling,
    From what I gather,
    they might have staged FF attacks to provoke hatred on both sides.
    I heard they even wanna recall Aung San’s Nobel prize, LOL

    If the lady had faithfully toed their line, you wont hear about any Rohingha crisis for sure,
    the [email protected]#$% would even supply arms , military advisers , to help Myanmar erase those Rohingha ‘terrorists’

    hhhhheheh

    • Replies: @Reuben Kaspate
  380. Anonymous[469] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    they are driving around in Porches while the local Malays run around barefoot and totally impoverished in the street

    Huh….? What…?

    I’ve never been to Malaysia, by the way.

    No shit.

  381. Talha says:
    @denk

    Nah man, I’m not even talking at that level. I am on first name basis with the head of the US branch of one of the largest Muslim Relief agencies in the world. My wife and brother used to work there for years. They were doing work on the Bangladesh/Burmese border at least since 2008 when the first flare up happened. They were on the ground and reported a massive influx of people trying to flee into Bangladesh with eye-witness accounts of villages being burned down and women being raped by soldiers and paramilitary forces. They raised funds in order to meet a huge demand for temporary shelters and housing.

    If you want to dismiss this, I have no problems, but why should I? I’m not even talking about anything reported in Western newspapers.

    I had an ethnic Burmese friend in UCLA, he was in the circle with some of the on campus Leftist organizations. They used to go to protests against the Burmese military in downtown LA. He told me that the Burmese military was brutal to even ethnic Burmese that wanted reforms; torture, rape, etc. Now why would their military suddenly deal with kid gloves with non-ethnic Burmese in Rakhine.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @denk
  382. @Che Guava

    Ainu apparently originated in Siberia and entered Japan through the Kuril islands, so this is plausible.

    Native Americans in the US actually arrived from a later wave that moved South instead of East like Canadian aboriginals and arrived much later.

    There is also an Austronesian component to their genes absent from Canadian aboriginals who are apparently purely Siberian. Again, makes sense.

  383. @Che Guava

    When do my posts imply a Zionist agenda?

    Our discourse concerned the Ainu.

    What in the world does that have to do with Jews and how would such a discussion advance Zionism?

    I’m not Jewish.

    • Replies: @Reuben Kaspate
  384. Talha says:
    @Che Guava

    No, that’s your caricature of me. I’ve got my own voice thanks, I can speak for myself.

    But yeah, if you are talking about believing in a unique and exclusive spiritual brotherhood of Muslim believers, then yeah – I do, because brotherhood should mean something.

    That doesn’t mean I want to fight everyone else, I’d much rather get along since we have to share this planet.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Reuben Kaspate
  385. Talha says:
    @denk

    Totally bothers me. I’d like it far less influenced by Anglo-Zionist hands.

    Bush, Cheney and a whole host of US leadership should have been hanging a while back. Interpol should be after them.

    Peace.

  386. @Talha

    TALHA

    You are one of the more balanced and literate posters on this site and I skip the articles to read you erudition. Mine is more a “white expat on the street” viewpoint. But let me digress-

    Churchill and the Brits created that mess to begin with. Imagine telling Hispanic Californians that they should run Boston because both they and Irish-Americans are Catholic. Pakistan inherited the Bengali Muslims and inherited the mistakes Churchill made.

    I find that Pakistanis in California are seemingly better integrated than the Swedish-Americans in Bakersfield by the way. There was wild streak and hedonistic lack of responsibility among the Bakersfield Swedish-Americans; many of the males were rogues. Granted, they were low-class and i was on the fringes of society in the Southwest. But Pakistani-Americans seemed much more refined, truthfully.

  387. denk says:
    @Che Guava

    most of them (as he) are Zionist propaganda trolls. They are time wasters, that is their aim

    I call them ‘grinders‘, if you engage them, they’d grind you down with saturation spaming.
    But a lot of them are white trash supremacists too.

    Doesnt means Im always right, but overall I figure myself to be on the right side of history.
    Dont always agree with you either, but
    Some time we can agree to disagree. 🙂

    • Agree: Che Guava
  388. @Talha

    TALHA

    Once the US FINALLY withdraws from Afghanistan they will feel the way that Gorbachev and Queen Victoria and Alexander the Great did…they will never want to interlope again.

    Since the Greco-Roman Empire Afghans managed to bankrupt every superpower. They ended the cold war by bankrupting Russia. Now they have brought the US to the verge of bankruptcy. That is not bad for feudal peasants living in the middle ages.

    Bin Laden won. The US is not the same Superpower of the Clinton era. It is in debt, demoralized and demonized.

    Meanwhile Dubai and Oman became highly developed countries with skylines that rival Manhattan while the US slowly turned into a second world country.

    I’m stating the facts. I don’t condone Bin Laden (If he was indeed responsible) but I am saying that he essentially won. Compare the poverty and paranoia of the US today with the confidence and pride before 9-11.

    • Replies: @Reuben Kaspate
    , @Talha
  389. denk says:
    @Talha

    *UNHRC most certainly should go after US. You forgot a boat load of countries in South America too.*

    BUt it aint gonna happen.
    You should know why.
    The same reason there wont be an UNHRC inquest on abuses in Kashmir, NE India.

    ”Genocide In Kashmir: India’s Shame

    By Andre Vltchek

    08 February, 2015
    Counterpunch.org

    [MORE]

    Srinagar

    Welcome to Kashmir! It is deep winter. The mountains are covered with snow and the naked trees above the lakes at sunset, look melancholic and magnificent, precisely like a completed Chinese brush painting.

    Welcome to a nation overrun by the 700,000-strong security forces of the occupying power – India. Welcome to the continuous presence of barbed wire, of military columns, and ‘security checks’. Welcome to a brutality unimaginable almost anywhere else on earth!

    Welcome to a land of joint military exercises conducted by the United States, Israel and India.

    Kashmir! Still beautiful but scarred. Still proud but bleeding and thoroughly exhausted… Still standing, still resisting, still free and independent, at least in its heart!

    ***

    Four kids are standing near the Grand Mosque in Srinagar. They are edgy; they appear to be ready to jump, to run, and to fight, also ready to run and retreat if necessary. It all depends on the circumstances.

    “They are raping our sisters and mothers!” screams one youth. I am shown teargas canisters, similar to those used in so many other parts of the world to disperse protesters. They are usually fired into the air. Here they are fired by the security forces directly at people’s heads – with the intention to kill.

    In this Kashmiri Intifada, the police, army and paramilitary use slings, guns, teargas canisters, everything that is available, to suppress rebellion.

    It also uses video cameras; it films stone-throwing protesters and then it detains them, “disappears” them, and sometimes uses savage torture methods in order to subdue them.

    Young men in this neighborhood are routinely detained, and most of them have at least once, been brutalized.

    I am photographing empty gas canisters in their hands, always pointing my lenses away from their faces. But kids actually want to pose: they are not afraid, anymore.

    Ironically, it is 26th January, the Indian Republic Day.

    “We are going later today! To fight them! Come with us!”

    They use Arabic words. They point their fingers towards the sky. They are smiling, pretending that they are brave and ready to die, to martyr themselves. But I know that they are scared. I have been in this for many years… I can sense how frightened they are.

    They are good kids. They are desperate, cornered, but good.

    I promise. I say I will come. Later: as always, I keep my word’

    https://www.countercurrents.org/vltchek080215.htm

    or alleged abuses in Indonesia, or Kurdistan,…

    I bet you know why.

  390. denk says:
    @Talha

    Not that Im doubting your veracity but,,,…

    Every anecdotes, images, videos, stories
    must be subject to independent third party verification.

    Until then, its
    Innocent until proven guilty for me,

    • Replies: @Talha
  391. @Anonymous

    What are Malays but the mixure of Negrito (austro-asians) and the Chinese (those came over several thousand years before the “new” Chinese that arrived in the last few centuries to dominate commerce) and as such they ate not only pork but dogs to boot. It’s only after the animism, paganism, hindooism and buddhism had passed due to the arrival of the new pretender, johnny come lately if you will, mohammedism, under the guise of trade but in reality wanting to relieve the locals of its wealth which was lacking in the deserts, that those thick-headed Malays of Malaysia, Indonesia and Brunei saw the “light” of the afro-semitic shysters to give up their formerly beloved cuisine.

    Being genetically thick all the while adhering to a distant and esoteric mumbo jumbo of the beddou and being fleeced by the conniving chinaman has done the Malay in… there is no saving him!

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  392. @Jeff Stryker

    Afghanis to their credit were simpletons who used to raid the Subcontinent whenever the need arose due to high rate of breeding but lacking resources to support burgeoning population, all the while, keeping fierce independence but then due to the neocon-ic intervention to rid the Soviets from Kabul, the sand-niggah Osama bin Laden was brought in with merry band of malaperts, not only to pervert the gullible Pashto but to sully Afghan women, all in the name of Islam… the uglies have figured out how to fornicate with better races; just convert the morons!

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  393. @Jeff Stryker

    Perhaps, to the fruity guava, the Ainu are one of the “Lost” Tribes, thus any defense or discussion would be tantamount to supporting the Zionist cause…

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  394. @Reuben Kaspate

    That is nothing new. Conversion by the Arab pecker occurred from Andalusia to Indonesia. Bin Laden was actually imported by the Americans as part of the Cold War effort against Russia; he seemed to have learned from that and proceeded to bankrupt the US with an endless war like he did to Russia.

  395. @denk

    That Son of KALI, Thomm is also in the habit of signing off by writing heh heh heh… are you that offspring of the bloodthirsty black goddess of the hindoo?

    • Replies: @Thomm
  396. @Reuben Kaspate

    REUBAN

    I agree with his posit that the Ainu could be essentially be Native Americans who never went to America. That is entirely plausible. He makes a valid point there. Although Austronesian possibly also discovered the US and became Native Americans too.

    But then he veers off into the J-thing again.

  397. @denk

    hhhhhhehe… what the fuck is that? Are you missing teeth or something? Better have it checked out by the medicine woman, you inbred!

  398. Talha says:
    @Anonymous

    It’s a very very rare occurrence and I’ve only met a handful of first generation converted Chinese.

    Doesn’t surprise me – if you are going to associate the Muslim identity with an ethnic identity(legally) like the Malays have, why would Chinese even think it’s for them. I’m glad some Chinese converts are making this an issue and starting the conversation:
    https://www.malaymail.com/s/921193/ethnic-chinese-embrace-islam-but-keep-names-to-resist-becoming-malay

    I’m guessing their numbers must be small.

    The Hui numbers are small, just a few thousand, but growing.

    It’s a threat in all democracies but it was particularly easy in Malaysia as the natural race boundaries lent themselves so well to political exploitation.

    Very interesting. The Brits left other countries in this kind of shape as well – mostly along ethnic lines. Something tells me, this kind of set up works well in some kind of a multi-ethnic empire or kingdom where they ruler recognizes the importance of the productive minority and gives them a kind of protection from the predations or exploitation of the majority. One-man-one-votes democracies have this very real systemic issue and it only becomes more obvious if the productive/entitled are broken mostly across ethnic lines.

    In other words, the Indonesian view of ‘Malay’ is historically accurate – they are just one of the many local tribes who now make up Indonesia.

    I’m glad you said this. I always wondered why this region was so broken apart like this. Indonesia seems to simply be the inheritor of the Java-based Majapahit Empire. And then the various small sultanates (including Brunei) decided to ask the Brits to legally carve them out. Very interesting.

    Today, the Javanese are considered to be 100% Malay and therefore bumiputera while the Chinese are considered to be ‘from China’.

    OK – now I’m beginning to see the bigger picture. If this is the case, is there any move to unite Malaysia and Indonesia? Not saying whether that would be good or bad.

    The sultans looked after their core interests only and were quite happy to allow immigrants from all over to found their own towns and villages in land that was ostensibly under their sultanate.

    Exactly what I was talking about; communal discord is bad for the sultan’s tax flow – he has a vested interest everyone gets along.

    I’ll tell you what it’s about – it’s jealousy…The Malays didn’t create anything, do very little genuinely useful work, and are basically a non-essential part of the country.

    I’m getting the weird feeling that this is a little like a lot of the Gulf countries actually. With a specific ethnic political upper-class and a bunch of foreigners that designed and built it up. The similarities are amazing.

    Secondly, you assume that the mainland Chinese would go back.

    Interesting, but I could believe it. I mean, if Chinese have their relatively prosperous cultural enclaves/areas where they feel like they fit in, why would they trade that to go back to living under a communist high-surveillance security-state. I would assume they left because they were “voting with their feet”.

    Who would be doing these jobs if the illegal workers were sent home? Malays! So when the immigration officers and police are taking bribes, they are deliberately selling out their own people.

    What you are describing is unsustainable. I guess we’ll see how long this lasts.

    It’s about ketuanan melayu, malay supremacy. It’s pure racism at the core, and religion is just a tool.

    After what you are describing, I’d have to agree that this is institutionalized racism at the core and religion is a veneer.

    And who says I’m Chinese Malaysian anyway? You making assumptions?

    Good point, sorry, I was making an assumption.

    If Chinese entered islam en masse, the malays would just change the goal posts. Muslim Chinese are already denied bumiputera status even if their families have been Malaysian and Muslims since before independence.

    I can see your point, but a couple of things:
    1) It would give a bump to their demographic numbers (the Chinese Muslims I know have plenty of babies), because that is ultimately a huge part of the issue
    2) This cannot last long because it goes up against the religious principles – something will have to break. The Ummayyads tried this very early on with establishing a kind of Arab-supremacist empire and it was very short lived – less than a 100 years. All the other people (mostly the Persians) revolted and established the much more egalitarian (among Muslims anyway) Abbasid Empire which lasted much longer. So these things take time and Malaysia (as a nation state) is fairly young.

    This conversation is already starting to happen in Turkey with the Kurds. With Turkey shifting in its identity as of recent, an appeal to a common primary Islamic identity allows for much more room for negotiation and accommodation. If you have the time, this is a very enlightening (and very recent) talk on the subject:

    Again, my deep thanks for the detailed information – I have learned a lot.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
    , @Anonymous
  399. @Talha

    “Brotherhood” means license for the Afro-Semitic Arab to go ravage genetically superior women, be it Slavic or Sindi/Poonjabi… Islam is the perfect creed for the negro, including the negrified desert rat, the Arab!

    • Replies: @Talha
  400. Talha says:
    @denk

    Totally fine. I can tell you that Oxfam and other third party relief agencies also take this very seriously since it has its own efforts in that area. You can readily read their interviews and first-hand reports here:
    https://www.oxfam.org/en/research/i-still-dont-feel-safe-go-home-voices-rohingya-refugees

    They have been raising their own funds.

    I have little reason to doubt it when established Christian and Muslim charities on the ground are saying the same thing. Again, feel free to believe whoever you think has more credibility. If that happens to be the Burmese government, no sweat off my back. I’m not asking for UN or NATO intervention. Muslims should be able to take care of this ourselves without external help – if we haven’t, the fault lies with us.

    Peace.

  401. @Escher

    There are a lot more trannies in liberal Thailand…

  402. peterAUS says:
    @Escher

    I wonder: if China is so great, why does the author live in Thailand?

    Hehe……well, probably for the same reason most of fanboys of regimes in Beijing and Moscow also don’t live there.

    We, actually, have a distinctive pattern on this site: the most vociferous critics of the West, USA in particular and, on top of it so full of love for China/Russia, actually reside in West.Worse, in USA itself.

    Feels as some inside joke of the owner of this site (and the people around/behind him).Almost funny.

    • Replies: @last straw
  403. @Jeff Stryker

    Singaporean Chinese… what’s that? A place in Malay peninsula, organized by the British and named City of Lions in the language of the hindoo… what is the conning, cunting, conniving chinaman doing there? Guess the Muslim bravado is all talk… remember, no pain no gain!

  404. @Joe Wong

    Americans are guided by principles based on ethics and morality, while the Chinese might be following the Confucius ideals of not what is necessarily right but that which is optimally beneficial… materially!

    • Replies: @Joe Wong
    , @denk
  405. @Talha

    Ever the optimist! Your positive-ness must infecting…

  406. @Anonymous

    What do you find objectionable in what I said? The VPN part or the disinformation part–and on what basis?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  407. @Talha

    TALHA

    Chinese in the Philippines are devoutly Catholic and in Mindanao Chinese-Filipinos are Muslim. The Chinese-Filipinos have always been Muslim.

    • Replies: @Reuben Kaspate
    , @Talha
  408. Talha says:
    @Reuben Kaspate

    Well, since we have our own definitions:
    “…Do not seek out faults, do not spy on each other, do not contend with each other, do not envy each other, do not hate each other, and do not turn away from each other. Rather, be servants of Allah as brothers.” – reported in Bukhari and Muslim

    …we are not in need of any others. But feel free to define it as you like since opinions of non-Muslims on these matters do not affect definitions.

    I think this has now regressed to 4th grade, soon we’ll be in kindergarten.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Reuben Kaspate
  409. Thomm says:
    @Reuben Kaspate

    I am not Indian, you stupid faggot.

    No one with an IQ above 70 thinks I am.

    • Replies: @Reuben Kaspate
  410. @Thomm

    What you are, Kali putta, isn’t my concern but it’s others who have pegged you as such…a faggot is faggot does… now get the fuck outta here, PUNK!

    • Replies: @Thomm
  411. @Reuben Kaspate

    Chinese will adapt to whatever strictures they have to in order to make money. Although many Chinese in the Philippines are devout Catholics.

  412. @Talha

    When dealing with minds that are petrified to a point of absurdity, going back a few grades is the better option… It’s better to start with tabula rasa!

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  413. Thomm says:
    @Reuben Kaspate

    What ‘others’? They are just 70-IQ wiggers like you.

    The funny thing is, there are several Indian commenters here, but you are too afraid to provoke them. You want to conduct your faggotty hate in a passive-aggressive way because you know I am not Indian.

    How cowardly can you WN wiggers be? Pure trash.

    Get off my lawn, faggot!

  414. @peterAUS

    Hehe……well, probably for the same reason most of fanboys of regimes in Beijing and Moscow also don’t live there.

    We, actually, have a distinctive pattern on this site: the most vociferous critics of the West, USA in particular and, on top of it so full of love for China/Russia, actually reside in West.Worse, in USA itself.

    Feels as some inside joke of the owner of this site (and the people around/behind him).Almost funny.

    First, no need to resort to such obvious ad hominem attack; second, people who live in the West have first-hand experience of Western media’s hypocrisy and their zealotry in engaging in propaganda/disinformation warfare against their perceived enemies such as China and Russia. Finally, that’s because those who have good command of English and can write comments in English tend to live in countries with English as a first language.

    • Agree: Godfree Roberts
    • Replies: @Escher
  415. @Godfree Roberts

    You should have clarified that in the article then. By claiming that Uighurs are descendants of “whites” – commonly understood to be of European descent – you had people thinking that they were descendants of Brits, the French, or other modern Europeans.

    Once again, you’re being very misleading.

  416. Don’t you mean get off your back? Well there! I am off your stinky back, will you now be satisfied? What is your real IQ? Your scribbling points to a number below the average! Go jerk off someone your own size, lest you get a new one, BITCH!

  417. Seraphim says:
    @peterAUS

    I see that you try to say something, but the entrenched orthographic mistake that became the new ‘normal’, the confusion between ‘than’ (comparative -‘better’) and ‘then’ (temporal – after that), betrays you.
    You wanted to say that that it would have been better to send people to Gulag instead of executing them summarily. I agree.
    But what you understand is that Stalin ‘peacefully’ sent people to Gulag and after that had them executed summarily!

  418. peterAUS says:

    I see that you try to say something, but the entrenched orthographic mistake that became the new ‘normal’, the confusion between ‘than’ (comparative -‘better’) and ‘then’ (temporal – after that), betrays you.

    Orth….what?

    You wanted to say that that it would have been better to send people to Gulag instead of executing them summarily. I agree.

    Ah, good. I get that.

    But what you understand is that Stalin ‘peacefully’ sent people to Gulag and after that had them executed summarily!

    All of them? You sure? I don’t know……..

    Back to the topic at hand. You appear to be a smart guy (that “ortho” thing), civil (so far) and interested in the thing (Gulags and such), so a couple of questions if I may. I mean, some of us are here to learn something while chatting around. Average pub thing.

    Do you think this Chinese methodology will work?
    Do you think Europeans could use the same methodology when dealing with their own “Muslim thing”? Providing there is political will to do so. Or, where there is that will, there won’t be any NATO bombs raining on them (humanitarian intervention thing)?

  419. Seraphim says:

    It is a good question.
    I hope that the Chinese methodology will work. I think Europeans must do the same thing but there is no political will, for sure. They have been cowed and brainwashed (they invented ‘human rights’, right?) to such an extent that it became almost their second nature.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  420. Seraphim says:
    @Reuben Kaspate

    He simply cannot understand that like Muslims who “are not in need of any others”, the ‘others’ are not in any need of Muslims and their Mahomet, Sharia, halal and sanctimonious blathering.

    • Replies: @Reuben Kaspate
  421. Talha says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    Mine is more a “white expat on the street” viewpoint.

    Thank you for your kind words. I’ve actually enjoyed some of the anecdotes from your travels. I have traveled as well (hope to travel more), but you’ve easily had far more adventures and gone to far different places than me.

    Pakistan inherited the Bengali Muslims and inherited the mistakes Churchill made.

    There were two major issues:
    1) Geographic distance, which would not necessarily be a huge deal (think of Alaska and the US) – but it had India in between (think of Alaska and US with Russia or China in between instead of Canada)
    2) Far too much racism from the West Pakistani side towards the Bengalis. I saw this first hand growing up among Pakistanis. Mostly among the regular man-on-the-street and far less with religious Muslims (who had no problems learning under the tutelage of Bengalis). But the Bengalis weren’t being treated right, I can see why they wanted to be separate.

    Brotherhood is a two-way road, you can’t mistreat people and then turn around and expect them to take your claims of brotherhood seriously.

    Bakersfield Swedish-Americans

    Hmmm…are you talking about Solvang, CA? I was never able to visit with my wife. The only Swedes I was exposed to in California were my in-laws and any of their extended family. Either way, I hope those guys cleaned up their act.

    But Pakistani-Americans seemed much more refined, truthfully.

    I’m not sure about the Pakistanis in other parts of the country, but I interacted with many Pakistanis around SoCal and the lion’s share of them seemed to come from the educated and elite class from Karachi/Lahore/Islamabad…of course, that can come with its own issues.

    in Mindanao Chinese-Filipinos are Muslim

    I’ve known a few Filipinos from Mindanao. I actually lived right next door to a family before we moved a few years back. Nice folks – they actually knew a bit about Islam because their family was Catholic, but many of their relatives were Muslim. It was all good though when they had us over for a party – they simply pointed out the fish dishes (there were quite a bit, of course).

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  422. Joe Wong says:
    @Reuben Kaspate

    Americans are ‘God-fearing’ morally defunct ‘puritans’, and they are guided by the principle of claiming credit where credit is not due; for example, the Americans are bombing and killing indiscriminately on the manufactured phantom WMD allegations but they claim it is humanitarian intervention, they are Orwellian oligarchy police state but they claim they are democracy, etc.

  423. Joe Wong says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    The White likes to write other people’s history for other people, they have been very diligently doing so. Since they control the major voice of public media on the world, the White flooded the world with their manufactured consent of other people’s history based on their crusader mindset and culture, their narrative of other people only exists in their cult-like religious minds.

    You do not have to repeat what the rest of the world already knew about how the White caricature and demonize them, I just want to tell you other side of the story that you have no chance to learn in schools and in your world.

    For example the White learn Columbus discovered the New Continent, but there were tens if not hundreds millions of indigenous people had been living there for hundreds of thousands years already, Columbus could not discover a new continent that had already been discovered. Another example, the White said Vasco da Gama was the first man to made it round the Cape of Good Hope and sail on to the East Indies where he made first contact with hitherto isolated and primitive Indian race. But sometimes between two and five decades earlier the Islamic navigator, Ahmad ibn-Majid, had already rounded the Cape and, having sailed up the West African coast, had entered the Mediterranean via the Strait of Gibraltar.

    Honestly don’t be so defensive, please let the truth have a chance been told.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
    , @Anonymous
  424. Talha says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    That is not bad for feudal peasants living in the middle ages.

    Eventually everyone asks, why the hell are we here again and simply cannot figure out why they bombed a village, the entire value of which on paper, was worth less than the bomb. You can’t bomb people back to the Stone Age when they pretty much live there already.

    Afghanistan historically produced two things; fighters and awliya.

    I am saying that he essentially won.

    If winning means getting your stated goals accomplished, agreed. He literally broadcast to the world what his plan was and the US leadership followed it, step by step. Michael Scheuer called it years ago.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
    , @Anonymous
  425. @Talha

    TALHA

    I lived for seven years in the Arab Gulf. Baluchistan was OWNED by Oman at one point and I worked with them. I’ve never been to Pakistan.

    Its tough to like Bengali, Hindu or Muslim. I’ve met a few nice ones but most of the time the women are shameless nympho sluts with bad attitudes who sleep their way to the top, the men are either totally gay or cons, they tend to be bipolar, they are often drunks.

    Pakistan inherited problems from Churchill and Nehru in the form of Bangladesh and Kashmir. Churchill detested Bengali and was already responsible for a famine there. Nehru was Kashmiri Pandit who despised Muslims. Nixon and Kissinger’s hatred for Indira Gandhi once again fell in the lap of Pakistan. We won’t get into Afghanistan or how Russia or the US affected them.

    Muslim Indian and Arab traders came up from Malaysia into Mindanao about 1000 years before the Spanish arrived. They were there before the Chinese. So the Chinese community integrated and Chinese-Filipino Muslims are fairly common.

    From me you are getting the white American point of view, which is unbiased.

    But let us call a spade a spade.

    Churchill and Kissinger and Nehru and Bush and Gorbachev all left a trail of shit for Khan and every other Pakistan leader to walk through.

    You don’t have to be a political scientist to see that.

    Any Oakie whose never been out of the Central Valley knows that much.

    • Replies: @Biff
  426. Jason Liu says:

    Godfree, this article would make even the most ardent nationalist blush. If you’re gonna defend China, do so in a less ridiculous manner.

    As usual, China articles bring out a slew of barely coherent retards on all sides. What is it about Unz.com that attracts these types? The only sensible person in this thread is Talha.

    —-

    Personally I believe the CCP has gone too far with the Uyghurs.

    It feels like they read a ton of news articles about Muslim terrorism in the west, and decided to bring the hammer down extra hard on our own Muslims out of paranoia. I’m not gonna say it’s a million Uyghurs in ‘re-education centers’, but even a low estimation from that number would be a lot.

    While it is true that Xinjiang does experience terrorism, this heavy handed approach is not the answer. It will create a cycle of hatred for generations that spans much further than what separatists or terrorists could’ve engendered on their own. It opens China up to constant attacks on its moral legitimacy that will last long after this event, like how SJWs still use the oppression of Native Americans to attack America’s moral legitimacy, 300 years after the fact.

    In the present, actions like this diminish China’s legitimacy on the world stage, turns global opinion against us, alarms potential rivals, and provides a useful excuse for hostile actions against China, even if our rivals don’t really care about Uyghurs. If you are Chinese and you think that image doesn’t matter and all we need is trade + economic growth, you are wrong.

    What’s worse, China is not allowing Uyghurs to leave the country just because they might blab about their experiences and make China look bad. This is short-sighted. If Sinicization of the area is really the goal, let the Uyghurs leave. The bad press will blow over eventually. It is not right or effective in the long run to suppress them like this.

    Ideally, separatism should be dealt with the same way the Russians dealt with the Chechens, by bringing them into the fold and allowing room for their tribalism to flourish within a Russian context. It is also likely that as economic conditions improve in Xinjiang, separatist desires will die down and become easier to manage. If this means enduring some terrorist attacks in the meantime, so be it.

    Overall, Beijing’s policymakers are socially inept old men who try to solve every problem with brute force. This is idiotic and dangerous. The hope that something of this scale could’ve been hidden from outside eyes, in our digital age, shows how out of touch Beijing is when it comes to public perception. Don’t defend shitty policies just out of pride or aversion to criticism. The CCP has mismanaged this issue and is at least partially responsible for the negativity surrounding China right now, even accounting for hostile foreign press. They can do better.

  427. Joe Mack says:

    Nancy Pelosi’s bill funding abortion may not be a bad idea, let’s kill the losers before they are born.

  428. @Talha

    1) Bin Laden and Bush’s family had a long business relationship and the world will never know how much of this was a personal falling out between two spoiled oil money brats or what Bush Sn. promised Bin Laden if his freedom fighters drove Russia into bankruptcy and ended the Cold War which Bush Sn. then assumed would guarantee him a second term in office. We just don’t know. We do know that Clinton hoped that Bin Laden would do the same thing in Kosovo, but he declined.

    2) Even Rambo admired Afghani fighters. The place is the graveyard of Superpowers. Dig through US bombs, remains of Russian helicopters, English rifles and Greek spears left there and you can say “This is where Obama, Gorbachev, Queen Victoria, Alexander went out of their minds trying to get out.”

    3) The PEOPLE vs OJ and KILL YOUR FRIENDS and Seth Rogan’s films reflect the enormous nostalgia for the Clinton era. Why? Because before Bush got into office, the US was a much better place to live. Americans pine for a time before 9-11 when middle-class people lived in McMansions instead of an old RV homeless and the country had a surplus economy. The effects of 9-11 and Bush have been felt for twenty years.

  429. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    What do you find objectionable in what I said? The VPN part or the disinformation part–and on what basis?

    Firstly, I find the idea of using a registered VPN provider to be laughable. If it’s officially approved, it’s obviously going to have the same censorship and policing as regular connections. By definition, the only free VPN is an unauthorized one.

    Unauthorized VPNs are used by crooks and spies.

    So your attitude is that if a minority of undesirables uses a technology, it should be banned? This is the same crap Western politicians come out with when they want to ban tor or bitcoin.

    It’s hard to take you seriously as a person when you’re talking like a politician.

    The government is not interested in blocking information: they want to block the massive disinformation originating from Western media and apps like FB and Twitter.

    Oh really? And what about all the scandals in China? They have no interest in blocking them also? Of course not, because they’re all angels.

    Jesus Christ, Godfree. You’re such a fucking shill.

    • Replies: @Erebus
    , @Godfree Roberts
  430. @Joe Wong

    Oman was in East Africa first but Bin Majid never reached the Mediterranean.

    America and Asia connected by a land bridge so the Native Americans never discovered North America. At that point it was still part of Asia/Russia. Austronesian sailors probably reached South America before the whites. And Chinese may have reached California and traded with Native Americans there. But they did not settle the place.

    Omani sailors actually got the lodestone from China and traded with them early on. They had learned astronomy navigated the desert and from the lodestone they invented the compass.

  431. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:
    @Joe Wong

    The White likes to write other people’s history for other people, they have been very diligently doing so. Since they control the major voice of public media on the world

    Hang on, are we talking about whites or (((whites)))?

  432. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    Eventually everyone asks, why the hell are we here again and simply cannot figure out why they bombed a village, the entire value of which on paper, was worth less than the bomb.

    Haha. Thanks for making me laugh, Talha. Nothing is as crazy as the truth!

  433. @Jason Liu

    The logical thing to do is what Muslims let Lee Kwan Yew do. Allow the Uighur total autonomy.

    What happened in Singapore will be the reverse in Xinjiang. It will slide into total poverty outside the umbrella.

    Uighur contribute nothing to the economy and are on the real fringes of China anyhow.

  434. @Jason Liu

    Godfree, this article would make even the most ardent nationalist blush. If you’re gonna defend China, do so in a less ridiculous manner.

    Well said.

    It would be one thing if it were a Chinese nationalist who had written something like this. Sure, I would object to the article’s content all the same, but at least it would make sense. I completely understand tribalism and the “my people, right or wrong” mindset, even when they’re taken too far.

    However, to see a white man passionately defend China in this manner is just bizarre.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  435. Joe Wong says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    The American was the major supplier of war materials and technologies to the Japanese invasion wars against Chinese before Pearl Harbour attack. Before that nobody, not the American, British, French or Russian help Chinese to fight against the barbaric Japanese, except the Nazi German.

    By the time of Pearl Harbour attack, Chinese had been fighting the Japanese more than 7 years alone, while the American was making huge profit by supplying the Japanese all their need in the invasion wars against Chinese. When the American joined the WWII against the Japanese, the Japanese capability to initiate offense in China had been thawed. American armed Chinese because they needed Chinese to tie millions of Japanese troops down in China instead of the American faced them off in the battlefields.

    Besides the majority of the weapons and materials the American gave to the KMT troops were used in the Chinese civil war to kill Chinese, not the Japanese. The money the American gave to KMT also allowed the American controlled KMT government and caused hyperinflation and corruption, which were the main cause that caused the KMT defeat in the civil war.

    Before WWII, the American is just one of the Western imperialists ravaged and wreaked havoc of Asia with barbaric wars, illicit drugs like Opium, slavery, stealing, robbing, looting, plundering, murdering, torturing, exploiting, polluting, culture genocide, ‘pious’ fanaticism, unmatchable greed and extreme brutality. In fact it is hard to tell the difference between the American and the unrepentant war criminal Japanese who is more lethal and barbaric to Asians until the Pearl Harbour incident.

    For your information, Chinese have been living in Taiwan thousands of years, it seems you not only fabricated White American identity, you also fabricated other people’s history on the go like Donald Trump.

    The Dutch was allowed to stay in Taiwan for humanitarian ground. The Dutch claimed they were grounded by bad weather and asked Ming court to have a temporary shelter on the shore of Taiwan. Koxinga was sent to expel the Dutch after Ming court found out the Dutch’s sneak plot of stealing Taiwan for themselves. Koxinga was preparing to expel the Europeans from the Philippines, Indonesia, etc. after Ming court learnt the European was squatting and forming colonies in there, but unfortunately both Ming and Koxinga were dead before Koxinga could set sail to expel the European from SE Asia.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  436. DB Cooper says:
    @Jason Liu

    Basically what the government did is to identify all the vulnerable population in the society and made it mandatory that these people go to vocational school to get job training to make them less susceptible for extremism indoctrination. This is the right thing and most humane thing to do. More humane than kill them once they get radicalized and engaged in terrorism. Religious extremism is a real concern in Xinjiang and terrorism did occur in the past. You can argue that the government has no right to force its citizen to go to these kind of school, I beg to differ. In the US schooling for children is mandatory, same kind of concept here. It is ultimately for the benefit of those children in the US and those adults in Xinjiang.

    The people in these camps are not mistreated. They live in comfortable dormitory, are well-fed and are provided with all kinds of entertainment. The only thing is that you have to finish the course and dropping out is not an option. This is hardly human rights abuse.

    To hell with the image and concentrating on doing what is right. Otherwise China will end up like that $hithole India. Whatever China did will be shed in negative light anyway. I don’t know how much this mandatory vocational training program cost the government but it must cost something. I actually applaud the government of having the foresight in spending the money to create this program. This is actually something that the Western governments can learn from the Chinese government. Western countries simply don’t have the moral authority to criticize China. If anything it should be China that should be lecturing the West, only that the Chinese does not have a proselytizing culture.

    • Replies: @Erebus
  437. @Joe Wong

    The United States WAS a colony, it did not have colonies. The Opium Wars were British, though many Americans as well as Chinese businessmen were in the Opium trade.

    Ming had no ability to rid the Philippines of Spain. Or the Dutch in Indonesia. Or the French in Indochina.

    • Replies: @Joe Wong
    , @Anon
  438. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    Doesn’t surprise me – if you are going to associate the Muslim identity with an ethnic identity(legally) like the Malays have, why would Chinese even think it’s for them.

    The Chinese don’t think it’s for them anyway. Again, 99% of the converts do it extremely reluctantly and only for marriage reasons. The one single voluntary Chinese convert I’ve ever met was hit on the head and knocked unconscious by a falling brick outside a Masjid. He saw it as a sign from God, but I saw him as frankly insane. Even the Malays at the burger stand where I was sitting were embarrassed by his behavior.

    I’m glad you said this. I always wondered why this region was so broken apart like this. Indonesia seems to simply be the inheritor of the Java-based Majapahit Empire. And then the various small sultanates (including Brunei) decided to ask the Brits to legally carve them out. Very interesting.

    No, Indonesia was the inheritor of the Dutch East Indies. Britain and Holland both grabbed chunks of land in this area and then later swapped territories to consolidate their holdings. Historically, there have been many empires in this region but it was the Europeans who laid down today’s boundaries. Indonesia is an especially artificial nation and had to spend a lot of time laying the foundations for national unity. For example, they were only the 3rd nation in the world (after USA and USSR) to get their own TV satellite, which was an indispensable way of teaching the newly created Bahasa Indonesia to the whole of the archipelago. A huge expenditure for what was then a pure 3rd world country but, in my opinion, an exceedingly good one.

    Brunei is a special case, as the Sultan had a lot of oil and didn’t want to join the Malaysian Federation whereupon 95% of his oil revenue would have gone to Kuala Lumpur. Britain supported this because it gave them a vassal with a petrol pump.

    OK – now I’m beginning to see the bigger picture. If this is the case, is there any move to unite Malaysia and Indonesia? Not saying whether that would be good or bad.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesia%E2%80%93Malaysia_confrontation

    Today, there’s no desire for unification. Malaysians of all races look down on Indonesia and prefer to maintain their higher standards of living, while regular Indonesians have never really felt threatened by Malaysia and just see it as a good place to work for a few years.

    You might also be interested in the way Malaysian Immigration and Police treat Indonesians. They look down on them and regularly abuse them, to the extent of even coercing them into a hotel room so they can be raped. Same religion, almost the same race, so why the attitude? Ketuanan melayu … where melayu is defined in whichever damned way they please.

    Interesting, but I could believe it. I mean, if Chinese have their relatively prosperous cultural enclaves/areas where they feel like they fit in, why would they trade that to go back to living under a communist high-surveillance security-state. I would assume they left because they were “voting with their feet”.

    Precisely. Standard of living is comparable, but quality of life is much higher in Malaysia. Good weather, friendly people, low stress, tropical fruits. Who the hell would want to go back?

    What you are describing is unsustainable. I guess we’ll see how long this lasts.

    Potentially a very long time! Originally, Brunei was huge and (on paper) covered a lot of north Borneo. However, in return for military assistance, the Sultan of Brunei gave the Englishman James Brooke his own kingdom in a far part of Brunei. Under the expert leadership of Raja Brooke and his family, Sarawak grew and Brunei shrunk. If you take a look on the map today, it’s not even obvious where Brunei is. Another classic case of Malays taking the easy route and bartering away tomorrow in exchange for an easy life today. But Brunei still exists and the sultan is still wealthy beyond belief.

    I’m getting the weird feeling that this is a little like a lot of the Gulf countries actually. With a specific ethnic political upper-class and a bunch of foreigners that designed and built it up. The similarities are amazing.

    I don’t know much about the Gulf states but I’m guessing Malaysia is not quite as extreme.

    Perhaps you should pay a visit? Is this on the cards at any point?

    I can see your point, but a couple of things:
    1) It would give a bump to their demographic numbers (the Chinese Muslims I know have plenty of babies), because that is ultimately a huge part of the issue

    For this to happen, they’d have to voluntarily give up their middle class existence. Fertility rates correlate with class, not race.

    2) This cannot last long because it goes up against the religious principles – something will have to break. The Ummayyads tried this very early on with establishing a kind of Arab-supremacist empire and it was very short lived – less than a 100 years.

    This may be true, but it won’t be the few thousand Muslim Chinese who break it – it will be the millions of Indonesians and Bangladeshis who start to demand equal treatment. At the moment, Banglas do the dirty, dangerous, hot and unpleasant jobs while the Malays live off entitlements or do easy government jobs where they can swan around in nice clothes and sit in their air con office. At the moment, the Banglas are the lowest class in society and have very few rights. Crash into one with your car? Never mind .. just drop him off at hospital. Lose a few fingers in an industrial accident? Never mind, just give him a few days off work. A lot of them can’t speak Malay properly and half of them don’t have proper working permits, which makes them incredibly vulnerable. One complaint, and they can be arrested, beaten, imprisoned for a few months, and then deported. Even the ones with the working permit could have it canceled. So at the moment, they’re too scared to demand more. We’ll see what happens when more of them start getting citizenship.

    Again, my deep thanks for the detailed information – I have learned a lot.

    It’s my pleasure, Talha. I’m happy to spend the time if it benefits an open mind.

    • Replies: @Talha
  439. Erebus says:
    @Anonymous

    Thanks for an excellent, informative post #392.

    Would you say that some of this is changing under the new Mahathir govt?

    Diluting some of your points somewhat, I recently had several meetings at SIRIM on technical matters, and found the Malay staff exceptionally knowledgable and helpful. I’m told that some of what I saw was because the new Minister in charge laid some new ground rules, and that this is happening across govt Ministries. I do detect an increasingly positive atmosphere amongst Malaysian business people (Chinese, of course) since Mahathir’s re-election.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  440. Erebus says:
    @Anonymous

    If it’s officially approved, it’s obviously going to have the same censorship and policing as regular connections.

    Unfortunately #392, whatever you may know about Malays, you’re dead wrong here.

    Obvious perhaps to those who’ve no experience of either, but as someone who’s used both extensively in China, I can say unequivocally that the authorized ones are better, faster, and use less data. The latter is a godsend if your internet connection runs over 4G. They’re also cheap.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  441. Biff says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    Its tough to like Bengali, Hindu or Muslim. I’ve met a few nice ones but most of the time the women are shameless nympho sluts with bad attitudes who sleep their way to the top, the men are either totally gay or cons, they tend to be bipolar, they are often drunks.

    I’m guessing you’re a security guard outside a pawnshop dreaming up escapades from a National Geographic magazine.
    If it looks phony it probably is.

  442. @Anonymous

    “Firstly, I find the idea of using a registered VPN provider to be laughable. If it’s officially approved, it’s obviously going to have the same censorship and policing as regular connections. By definition, the only free VPN is an unauthorized one.”

    Unauthorized VPNs are illegal, not ‘free’. Harvard’s Gary King found, “Contrary to much research and commentary, the purpose of the censorship program is not to suppress criticism of the State or the Communist Party. Indeed, despite widespread censorship of social critics, we find that when Chinese people write scathing criticisms of their government and its leaders the probability that their post will be censored does not increase. Instead, censored tweets were equally likely to be against the state, for the state, irrelevant, or factual reports about events. Negative, even vitriolic criticism of the state, its leaders and its policies are not more likely to be censored”.

    If you prefer privatized censorship, that’s your privilege. Deborah Fallows[1] found that, of more than eighty percent of Chinese want the media controlled and eighty-five percent of them want the government to do it. Which approach produces more trustworthy media and better-informed citizens, Chinese government censorship or American corporations’ private censorship? The American Publishers Association found that, in 2018, only 6% of us trust our media.

    “So your attitude is that if a minority of undesirables uses a technology, it should be banned?”.

    VPN technology is not banned in China. It’s used by millions every day, just as it is in the US.

    And what about all the scandals in China? They have no interest in blocking them also?


    What scandals in China have been blocked?

    [1] Most Chinese Say They Approve of Government Internet Control
    by Deborah Fallows, Senior Research Fellow, Pew Internet & American Life Project March 27, 2008

    https://www.markle.org/sites/default/files/pip_china_internet_2008_0.pdf

  443. Escher says:
    @last straw

    AFAIK, English is not the first language of Thailand.

  444. Erebus says:
    @DB Cooper

    Nice post.

    Religious extremism is a real concern in Xinjiang and terrorism did occur in the past. You can argue that the government has no right to force its citizen to go to these kind of school, I beg to differ.

    Yes, the Chinese are definitely concerned.

    Islam is not a problem, but Wahhabism is corrosive. The Saudis have been financing schools and sponsoring Chinese students to come to Saudi Arabia to study that perversity. No civilized country can allow it to take hold, even in its most remote reaches.

    Furthermore, many of China’s New Silk Roads run through Xinjiang and there’s simply no way that China will allow a lunacy like Wahhabism to spoil the project. There are very few options available to a government to deal with this kind of thing. They’re fair game in Syria, Chechnya, and Afghanistan, but summarily killing them in Xinjiang is problematic. There’s fanatics coming home from Syria, Chechnya, Afghanistan, etc. Iran handles the problem summarily, at the border. Russia handled the problem in Chechnya by killing radicals “on the toilet”.

    If the Chinese way works, I’d think they’d be lauded from one end of Eurasia to the other. The only other realistic option are the Iranian / Russian solutions. Imagine the caterwauling had they chosen the those.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  445. Seraphim says:
    @Seraphim

    I think the comparison of the Chinese “reeducation” centers with the Gulag is not correct. Gulag was a jail in the proper sense. Its inmates were people sentenced by a court to X number of years in jail as punishment for a delict (real or imaginary). The Chinese centers look rather like all the programs of ‘deradicalization’ functioning in Saudi Arabia, England, France, Australia.

  446. @Godfree Roberts

    Not to belabor the point, but the modern day Turks in historic Anatolia, who are most likely admixture of the “Greeks” and Mongols do not look anything like the hordes in the Stans… from Kazakhstan to East Turkmenistan. But nonetheless, we can accept that they are different from the mongloid Chinese.

  447. Anonymous[469] • Disclaimer says:
    @Erebus

    Would you say that some of this is changing under the new Mahathir govt

    Not really. The change was about reigning in the excesses of the Najib regime, not really about charting a new direction.

    I recently had several meetings at SIRIM on technical matters, and found the Malay staff exceptionally knowledgable and helpful.

    That’s great. It proves there are some good ones out there! My experience is that the high ranking malays can often be very competent, but they’re not representative of the whole. I’ve never dealt with SIRIM though!

    I do detect an increasingly positive atmosphere amongst Malaysian business people (Chinese, of course) since Mahathir’s re-election.

    Of course. They’re happy najib doesn’t get to run the country into the ground. Mahathir is no angel, but this is his second time coming and we already know what to expect.

    • Replies: @Erebus
  448. Anonymous[469] • Disclaimer says:
    @Erebus

    as someone who’s used both extensively in China, I can say unequivocally that the authorized ones are better, faster, and use less data. The latter is a godsend if your internet connection runs over 4G. They’re also cheap.

    That’s great but i never said anything about performance and you haven’t said anything about censorship and privacy, which means our posts are entirely orthogonal.

    • Replies: @Erebus
    , @Godfree Roberts
  449. @Jeff Stryker

    He probably is already a Jew… from Kaifeng to be sure!

  450. anon[499] • Disclaimer says:
    @Svigor

    no lol…I absolutely destroyed you with fact and logic and anybody reading both of our comments can see. Thats why youre trying to throw out a lot of rhetoric in order to veil the fact that I neutralized your argument. Ill repost what you originally wrote here:

    We know even less about the Dzungars. That’s because the Chinks exterminated them. And I don’t mean the way the Germans “exterminated” the Jews, with millions of Jews left over.

    I mean actively exterminated; wiped out; destroyed; annihilated. I mean genocide.

    Whites didn’t even do that to Amerinds, and that was first contact between early modern people of one race, and stone age people of another race; Chinks and Dzungars were far more closely related, racially and culturally, not to mention having many centuries of familiarity.

    You tried to claim the dzungars were completely wiped out, which turned out to be false. If you dont bother fact checking things as simple as this, why should anything else you say be considered credible?

    You tried to claim that whites genociding the amerinds were somehow less bad than the qing dynasty killing the dzungars. Its very clear that this was your thrust, yet now youre trying to backpeddle and complain that people are being hypocrites and unfairly criticizing the west. Well, if you had never brought up the west in the first place and instead only singularly talked about the dzungar massacre then I wouldnt have written you a response in the first place since there wouldnt be anything to debate. You made the initial china/west comparison when it comes to genocide, so why get mad when people take you to task for it?

    More importantly, you still cant argue against this very simple logic which I have reposted below:

    The chinese actually had a reasonable motive for their campaign against the dzungars (not that I agree with it still), juxtapose this to the european colonists who crossed literal oceans just to genocide and displace people that they didnt even know.

    Any reasonable person can see that the white genocide of the amerinds was more “immoral” since it was basically the equivalent of randomly attacking someone on the street as opposed to attacking someone that you have had bad history with which is what the qing dynasty did to the dzungars. Therefore its actually pretty unwise to use the dzungar genocide as a counterpoint to make the white genocide of the amerinds look good by comparison, but like I said, logic is not really a WN strong point

  451. Avery says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    {I consider the original Turks white,….}

    You can ‘consider’ them whatever you choose, but that does not change the historic fact that the original Turks were Asiatic nomadic tribes from East and Central Asia. Today of course ‘Turks’ inhabiting Asia Minor look quite different, having invaded Asia Minor from their homelands in East and Central Asia (Altai mountains, Uyguristan,….) and having forcibly intermixed with the original peoples of Asia Minor. The ones, that is, the savage Turkic nomads did not exterminate and ethnically ‘cleanse’, of course.

    • Replies: @Avery
  452. Erebus says:
    @Anonymous

    By “better” I meant they offered wider (less censorship) access to the internet than the “free” or internationally based ones. That’s probably a question of reliability, but it may be censorship of a different sort. I’ve heard the suspicion that some of them, especially the free ones are actually sponsored by 5-eyes security agencies.

    Anyway, the authorized VPN has never failed to reach a site that I’ve wanted to look at. They may block porn, but I haven’t tested for that. I’d be surprised if they’re private, but I’d be surprised if any of them are when push comes to shove.

    I have access to one set up rather cleverly by a friend, guaranteed private but it offers no less censorship (for my purposes) and is considerably slower.

  453. China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row, By Gerry Shih, January 14, 2019 at 8:12 AM, Washington Post…

    China is heading for a cataclysmic clash with the United States and the end result isn’t going to be pretty… for the Middle Kingdom!

  454. Avery says:
    @Avery

    [Turkish FM visits Uighur region during China visit Thu, 10/28/2010 – 12:00]

    [Ahmet Davutoglu, who has become the first Turkish foreign minister ever to visit Uighur Autonomous Region in China, toured historical sites in Kashgar city.
    Davutoglu and an accompanying Turkish delegation arrived early Thursday in Kashgar in the extreme west of China and the extreme southwest of Uighur region.
    Davutoglu first visited the tomb of Mahmud Kashgari and then they toured the tomb of Yusuf Has Hajib as well the 500-year-old Id Khah Mosque, the largest mosque in China.]

    [“”We are visiting the land of our ancestors,” Davutoglu said.]

    [Following his visits, Davutoglu attended a dinner hosted in his honor by leading figures of Kashgar, a junction between two branches of the old Silk Road. The 350,000 population of the city is mostly Uighur Turks.
    Davutoglu said he started his tour of China from Kashgar, one of the most important cultural spots of the Turkic world and home to two prominent Turkish intellectual figures in history.]

    https://uyghuramerican.org/article/turkish-fm-visits-uighur-region-during-china-visit.html

  455. denk says:
    @Talha

    *As a tax payer, they do NOT have my support in this regard.*

    Ever try telling them....?

    ‘It is OUR money. Did anyone ask us, the taxpayers, if we cared to fork over a ton of money to the Democrat and Republican parties so a pack of hacks could spend it to overthrow an elected president? Of course not. That’s because this government assumes we work for it, and not the other way around.
    ………….

    Once again, we have a congress and a federal bureaucracy tossing around our money so some jerks can play at being power brokers around the world. The National Endowment for Democracy is a hoax. Now everyone in Latin America knows we were up to our ears n trying to get rid of Chavez. The whole thing backfired. The politicians walk away and we pick up the bill. Some democracy. But what I really want to know is, is there a Ritz in Caracas, so the hacks on the gravy train can meet to overturn a democratically elected government at our expense? And this stuff happens because we let it happen. If we choose to be a nation of sheep, we have only ourselves to blame. ‘

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2002/04/richard-cummings/i-met-her-in-venezuela/

  456. denk says:
    @redmudhooch

    I very seldom watch vid, this’d be perhaps my second in a year.

    Mercouris says that this Uighurs gulags psyop is meant to arouse Western enmity towards China.
    But the ‘west’ are mostly hostile to China by default, especially the 5lies led by UKUS.
    fACT IS, most westerners dont give a rat ass about Wahhabis getting their just deserts.

    I say this is primarily aimed for the Muslim Ummah.
    They didnt even bother to hide their intention.

    \During the 2009 bloodbath in Xinjiang , CIA’s UIghurs militants cut up innocent bystanders by the hundreds in broad daylight.
    the 5lies MSM wasted no time to spin it as ‘brutal crack down on unarmed protestors’.

    ‘Where’s the Muslim’s outrage ‘ ?
    they demanded indignantly.

    Exactly the same question was asked during the current UIghurs gulags psyop…
    ‘Why aint there no outrage from the Muslim world’

    Are these [email protected]#$%! trying to provoke a worldwide jihad against the Chinese, which’d make that 1965 bloodbath in INdon looks like kindergarten stuff ?

    Regarding Trump being out of the loop.
    I beg to differ.

    As per Karl Rove,
    This is all a reality show.
    TPTB write the script, potus is merely an actor,
    we ,the captive audiences, or ‘analyist’ if you prefer.

  457. denk says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    I believe Denk mentioned being Singaporean Chinese

    Hallucinating much ?

  458. denk says:
    @Reuben Kaspate

    Americans are guided by principles based on ethics and morality,

    I counted two, at most three good yanks in this thread.

    As for you,
    They’r looking for a Mccain replacement,
    you’d make a perfect choice, in fact you’d make Bolton looks like a gentleman.

    Or you can apply to write for satire at UNZ.

    me guided by moral and ethics’
    hhhehhehe

  459. Joe Wong says:
    @Svigor

    History has proven that brutality, cruelty, insanity, wickedness and lying beyond the human being’s comprehension are White-man’s trait and forte. Romans were notorious in killing the whole population, burning down the whole city and salting the land then called it creating peace. The British imitates the Romans and the Americans are born out of the British; American’s brutality, cruelty, insanity, wickedness and lying against the native American and other people around the world are the culture and tradition they inherited form the British and Romans. Your denial of the crimes against humanity committed by the Americans merely prove the White-men are also remorseless and unrepentant like the unrepentant war criminal Japanese.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  460. Joe Wong says:
    @Jason Liu

    You surely can be counted as a member of the slew of barely coherent retards, you presented nothing to counter what the author has presented the facts on the ground in Xingjiang about Uyghurs, but a long tied triad of anti-China propaganda manufactured by the CIA, NED and Co. laced with beggar-thy-neighbour cold war mentality troll.

    The author has done a outstanding job to restore true journalism, reporting the truth on the ground, unlike the corporate media in the USA and its Five-Eyes conspirators whose forte is spreading misinformation and disinformation around the world to stir up hatred and cause chaos. Your negative narrative is the typical fabrication thru an anti-China indoctrinated mind, it is pure imagination for hate mongering.

  461. Joe Wong says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    Japan, SK, the Philippines, UK, Canada, Australia, NZ, Germany, etc. are USA’s colonies, there are more more 100 USA colonies or lackeys in the world the last time I counted.

    The European claimed it was their God’s gift to legitimize their stealing the North America from the rightful own of the North America, and your claim that Spanish and Dutch in SE Asia were out of Ming’s reach is consistent with that tradition. BTW claiming French in IndoChina out Ming’s reach is simply uneducated redneck garbage.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  462. Joe Wong says:
    @Svigor

    Some of the Western historians put the population of the First Nations of North America at 130 millions when the “Whitey” first appeared on the shore of USA. 50 million was a reasonable number. Anyhow the pioneers in the USA were a bunch of murderers, swindlers, thieves, gangsters, all of them are Whitey.

    Here is a documentary revealing what the Whitey did to the native Americans, https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/canary-effect/. It is very sad, heart breaking, and criminal (for lack of better words to describe the worst), the Whitey are evils. It is unconscious for anyone to deny the atrocities the Whitey committed against the native American.

  463. @Jason Liu

    Personally I believe the CCP has gone too far with the Uyghurs. It feels like they read a ton of news articles about Muslim terrorism in the west, and decided to bring the hammer down extra hard on our own Muslims out of paranoia.

    Gone too far by re-educating Wahabbi extremists who have staged numerous attacks in the past 10 years that killed a thousand innocent civilians? That’s too far?

    While it is true that Xinjiang does experience terrorism, this heavy handed approach is not the answer

    . China tried the soft approach for nine years. Didn’t work. Now they’ve moved to a firmer approach.

    actions like this diminish China’s legitimacy on the world stage, turns global opinion against us, alarms potential rivals, and provides a useful excuse for hostile actions against China, even if our rivals don’t really care about Uyghurs

    . No it doesn’t. Neither the World Muslim Convention nor a single Muslim government has complained. They, too, fear Wahabbi infections. The only complainants are countries that are currently bombing and torturing Muslims.

    Ideally, separatism should be dealt with the same way the Russians dealt with the Chechens. Seriously? The Russians slaughtered thousands of Chechens!

    China is not allowing Uyghurs to leave the country just because they might blab about their experiences and make China look bad

    . There are no restrictions on Muslims–the more numerous Hui Muslims travel abroad all the time.

    Beijing’s policymakers are socially inept old men who try to solve every problem with brute force. They solved the Western-manufactured Tibetan ‘problem’ without force and they’re solving the Uyghur problem without force.

    • Replies: @Talha
  464. @Bay Area Guy

    I presented verifiable facts.

    Is that bizarre because the facts don’t accord with our WMD-selling media narrative?

  465. @Erebus

    I should have made it clearer that the ‘Uyghur problem’ has the same genesis as the ‘Sandinista problem’ and the ‘Taliban problem’ and virtually every other sectarian problem on earth: it was generated by the West then criticized by Western media to chasten a disobedient state.

    • Replies: @Erebus
  466. @Anonymous

    Allow me.

    A generic headline is “Chinese government has tightened censorship to levels not seen in decades”. Ever wonder why?

    Do we have some secret magic information that the Party doesn’t want their citizens to know? Seriously? Nothing comes to mind.

    Could it be that our media and governments have waged a non-stop, WMD-style disinformation attack on China for 70 years and now they’re intensifying it?

    Our media and governments are losing control of the narrative so badly that the American Publishers Association, APA, says that only 6% of Americans still trusted their national media in 2018. That’s below Pravda’s lowest ebb.

    Whereas 80% of Chinese, according to Edelman, trust their media, perhaps because it DOESN’T contain the misinformation that ours so unsuccessfully tries to foist on us: that’s the stuff the Chinese government filters out, the toxic stuff that generates, advocates and excuses wars everywhere and lying about the environment. Stuff like that.

    Censorship has little to do with the dynamics:

    10 years ago Facebook, Google, Twitter and YouTube were all freely accessible in China.

    Xiaonei was already more popular than Facebook.

    Baidu had more searches than Google.

    Sina was more popular than Twitter.

    Tudou and Youku were each more popular than YouTube.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  467. Talha says:
    @Anonymous

    The one single voluntary Chinese convert I’ve ever met was hit on the head and knocked unconscious by a falling brick outside a Masjid.

    LOL! That is awesome! Most of the Chinese Muslims I have known have been born Muslims. I actually only know one Chinese convert personally – very nice guy, he went on to marry a Cham sister.

    No, Indonesia was the inheritor of the Dutch East Indies.

    Totally, but Majapahit was kind of the first local power to exert a wide control over that area. If i recall, Indonesians still consider themselves a successor to that empire (kind of like how Persians still consider themselves inheritors of the Achaeminid Empire). I think this summarizes it well:

    Britain supported this because it gave them a vassal with a petrol pump.

    Good point, probably why his personal royal guard retinue is comprised of a few hundred no-nonsense Ghurkas provided by the British. A nice little Praetorian Guard to guarantee the loyalty of the sultan, no?

    Same religion, almost the same race, so why the attitude? Ketuanan melayu … where melayu is defined in whichever damned way they please.

    Very interesting – and very sad.

    Potentially a very long time!

    Not if you guys stop having those babies, bro! Do it for the nation!

    I don’t know much about the Gulf states but I’m guessing Malaysia is not quite as extreme.

    No, Malaysia definitely doesn’t sound as extreme. I mean, the fact that you said Bengalis might eventually be able to apply for citizenship is something that doesn’t happen in the gulf countries.

    Perhaps you should pay a visit? Is this on the cards at any point?

    Would love to visit. If Muslims ever get kicked out of the West, Selangor is currently in the running as a place I would think about settling down in. Believe it or not, but there are groups of Muslims in places like America that have been scoping out places to either immigrate to or have as an escape hatch in case things escalate. One group has found Malaysia to be a good spot and they are starting a nascent expatriate community there of fellow Muslims from America that have a common culture. I’m not sure what state, but likely near Kuala Lumpur.

    This may be true, but it won’t be the few thousand Muslim Chinese who break it – it will be the millions of Indonesians and Bangladeshis who start to demand equal treatment.

    Yup – that’s how it will and has historically worked. When the Abbassid revolt trashed the Ummayyads, it was backed by the masses of Persian Muslims that were sick and tired of being treated as mawali. But it also opened up the door for others, whether from Transoxiana, Levant, etc. These kinds of systems run up against a critical mass of people that simply will not stand for it any more.

    We’ll see what happens when more of them start getting citizenship.

    I hope that will change things. That system sounds very exploitative in its current form.

    Peace.

  468. I presented verifiable facts.

    No, you presented a tankie fairytale, and when called out on your BS, all you can do is cry “Western media bias!!” Besides asserting that media outlets are making up facts to slander China, I don’t see you actually refuting their claims about what China’s doing in Xinjiang.

    Speaking of facts, your own “facts” are either completely misleading or downright incorrect. For example, the original Turks were not “white,” even though modern Turks living in Anatolia often look white. Likewise, a “billion” Chinese have not traveled abroad, even if around 100 million – most of whom are probably repeat tourists – travel per year.

    Your statements about VPNs don’t pass the laugh test, and people who have actually lived in China will tell you that the government comes down hard on native Chinese that it catches using VPNs (it usually doesn’t care too much about foreigners using one). Just because people can often use VPNs and not get caught doesn’t mean that China doesn’t censor.

    For that matter, the fact that people frequently get away with drunk driving doesn’t mean that strict laws against DUI don’t exist. Newsflash: law enforcement isn’t omniscient and omnipresent, and people often get away with breaking laws. However, when they do get caught, the punishments can be severe. Or is this story made up as well?

    https://torrentfreak.com/chinese-man-jailed-for-nine-months-for-selling-vpn-software-170904/

    Of course, we all know you’ll rationalize this by saying that China simply cracks down on “unauthorized” VPNs that threaten security, and that state-approved VPNs allow netizens to access whatever they like. Yeah, and the LeBron James-less Cleveland Cavaliers will win this year’s NBA championship.

    Is that bizarre because the facts don’t accord with our WMD-selling media narrative?

    What’s bizarre is that you – a white man – have taken it upon yourself to be China’s knight in shining armor. You’re like the Northern Ireland loyalists who were “more British than the British” – except you’re actually not. You see, NI loyalists at least had British ancestry/heritage, but you’re not even Chinese. So really, what’s your angle here? That is, besides being an old tankie whose playbook hasn’t been updated since the days of Mao’s Little Red Book?

    Seriously, when even Chinese nationalists like Jason Liu are telling you to tone it down, you know you’ve lost the plot.

    Just stop. You’re humiliating yourself.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Godfree Roberts
  469. Talha says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Can I ask a question; can you point out (in your personal estimation) a mistake or perhaps offer a criticism of any specific point in how the Chinese government is handling the Uighur issue or any other larger policy in general? Just wondering where you think the Chinese government’s policy should be improved?

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  470. peterAUS says:
    @Bay Area Guy

    What’s bizarre is that you – a white man – have taken it upon yourself to be China’s knight in shining armor.

    Well, a man has to make a living. There are worse ways, when you think about it. Much worse. At least the author isn’t hurting anyone. Besides, nobody is forcing us to read his stuff.
    Hehehe…..or at least not for now.
    Just occurred to me, a morbid thought, shame on me.Imagine Uyghurs being …ahm…encouraged….to ….debate…the article in those re-education centers. Oh man….

    So really, what’s your angle here?

    Money?

    Just stop. You’re humiliating yourself.

    If it pays bills, ah, well…..

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  471. Erebus says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    … it was generated by the West then criticized by Western media to chasten a disobedient state.

    Of course. A long, well-worn path.

    The Russian solution was applied in Dagestan, Chechnya & Syria with obvious success, and the Russians fortified Russian politics and economy against the chastening. On a much smaller scale, China applied similar solutions (maybe still does) in Afghanistan and Syria, but there’s no way they’d apply it inside China except in very limited circumstances. As a mercantilist state, it is vulnerable to market attacks and killing even die-hard fanatical Uyghurs “on the toilet” Russian style could result in devastating economic losses.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  472. Erebus says:
    @Talha

    I’m not sure what state, but likely near Kuala Lumpur.

    Shah Alam?

    • Replies: @Talha
  473. Erebus says:
    @Anonymous

    Would you say that some of this is changing under the new Mahathir govt

    Not really. The change was about reigning in the excesses of the Najib regime, not really about charting a new direction.

    Well, I heard lots of talk about including Chinese and Indians, at least, into the political structure and to do away with some of the Malay entitlements to encourage them into greater economic activity. Are you saying this ain’t happening?

    It proves there are some good ones out there!

    My limited experience says there are. Unfortunately, it seems Malaysian Chinese and Indian business people have yet to get that message.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  474. Talha says:
    @Erebus

    Not sure where exactly, I’d have to make a couple of phone calls to find out. Since my plans to move haven’t progressed that far yet, I will look into it if things start getting serious. You know, having Muslims register and all that good stuff. Or if my kids start going really whacky and really off the rails with respect to religion.

    Peace.

  475. @Talha

    I would have to be a counter-terrorism expert and spend a year in Xinjiang studying the problem before I could offer a suggestion. My only contribution is describing what caused the problem and what they’re actually doing to correct it.

    • Replies: @Talha
  476. @Bay Area Guy

    Do you not think Western media is biased? 94% of Americans certainly do, according to the APA.

    I’ve never had a problem using VPNs in China, nor have any of the students I know there. Even elementary schools have them. Why do you think they would have more of a problem than we have with VPNs in the US? Or do you imagine that Chinese use VPNs for the same reason Americans use them: because they don’t trust their government? (They do).

    I don’t think the skin color is particularly relevant these days, but you can verify it for yourself.
    https://imgur.com/a/tsjTLki.

    you – a white man – have taken it upon yourself to be China’s knight in shining armor.

    . Here’s why: In 2005 I found that, though we had been the tallest people on earth for two hundred years, the average Dutchman was three inches taller than Americans’ five feet nine. Since height is an indicator of national wellbeing I looked for explanations. What I found alarmed me: our wages and education were falling while homelessness, poverty and maternal mortality were creeping up. Concerned, I compiled every social statistic I could find, published them in a book and mailed copies to Federal politicians and department heads, asking were they aware of our drift? I received just one response, a thoughtful letter from the Director General of the CIA: his agency regularly briefed the government on these trends, he said. Since the CIA was on the case I set the project aside reasoning that my efforts were superfluous.

    Ten years later, in 2015, I saw homeless people in the streets of San Francisco and found a UNICEF report[1] that fifteen percent of us were living in poverty and we were thirtieth in literacy, thirty-fifth in childhood poverty, fifty-third in life expectancy and fifty-fourth in infant mortality. We ranked[2] thirty-third in political killings and torture, forty-seventh in political rights, sixty-seventh in discrimination and violence against minorities, eighty-eighth in homicides and one hundred and ninetieth in incarcerations. The cause was not hard to find: since 1974 the Congressional Register recorded no major legislation advancing our health, safety, economic or human rights.

    Then The Guardian[3] reported that, for the first time in history, poverty had disappeared from Chinese cities and would soon vanish from the countryside and that their education level surpassed ours in 2009. Further checking revealed that, by 2021, every Chinese will have a home, a job, plenty of food, education, safe streets, health insurance and old age care. By 2022, five hundred million urban Chinese will have higher net worth and more disposable income than the average American and their kids will finish school three years ahead of ours and live longer, healthier lives.

    Does that not concern you?


    [1] https://data.unicef.org
    [2] https://www.socialprogress.org/
    [3] China has almost wiped out urban poverty.
    Elizabeth Stuart. Wed 19 Aug 2015. The Guardian .

    • Replies: @Bay Area Guy
  477. @peterAUS

    Get a grip. You know perfectly well that our media lie to us all the time even about our own, domestic matters. My experience with China, which dates to 1967, suggests that they lie 10x about countries that do not obey us.

    Is your experience of our media different from mine?

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  478. @Erebus

    How, when and where did China apply similar solutions (maybe still does) in Afghanistan and Syria?

    To be a mercantilist state, China would have to break its WTO accession agreements. How, when and where did China break its WTO accession agreements?

    • Replies: @Erebus
  479. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:
    @Erebus

    Well, I heard lots of talk about including Chinese and Indians, at least, into the political structure and to do away with some of the Malay entitlements to encourage them into greater economic activity. Are you saying this ain’t happening?

    That’s correct. It’s not happening.

    My limited experience says there are. Unfortunately, it seems Malaysian Chinese and Indian business people have yet to get that message.

    Not really. The capable Malays are few in number and tend disproportionately towards the public sector or Malay-run GLCs, which only leaves the dregs for the private sector.

    Trust me, Chinese employers are very pragmatic. They’ll do business with anyone who can reciprocate to a high enough standard, and they’ll employ anyone irrespective of race, religion and nationality if they feel they’re getting a good deal.

    Some of the concrete issues working against hiring Malays are:
    – Poor English, zero Chinese language skills
    – Very entitled: They feel they should be respected even before they’ve earned it
    – Inherently lazy: they’re just not motivated to do beyond what they’re ordered to
    – Friday prayers: by law, they can be given up to 3 hours on a Friday. This causes scheduling issues in a predominantly non-Muslim company.
    – Danger of objecting to non-Muslim behavior like eating pork in the office, especially if using a shared kitchen to prepare it.
    – Frequent mistakes. Simply not as diligent as a Chinese.
    – (for the men) Theft will often occur.
    – Excessive holidays. For example, my friend’s Malay worker took 5 days holiday because his sister was having a baby. It’s a common complaint amongst Chinese employers that the Malays only want to work when they need the money and would otherwise prefer holiday.
    – Frequent requests for advances, especially approaching Hari Raya (Eid Al Fitri).
    – No appreciation for the value of business and the harm that bad behavior can cause. Because the Malays have never built anything for themselves, they have no idea how hard entrepreneurs have to work to build their business and how diligent they have to be over so many years. As such, a pissed off Malay may make a complaint to a government department that costs the company tens of thousands to fix. This could be anything – employment practice, environmental laws, machinery – really anything. Malaysia has very heavy legislation but very lax enforcement that usually only grinds into action when there is a written complaint. This is made worse by the friends and family that Malays have all over the government, and hence their ability to push a complaint through faster.

    Finally, the real kicker is that they’ve got a very powerful backup behind them. I heard of one Chinese supervisor who lost his job because he suggested to a Malay that he skip Friday prayers. The Malay complained to the Imam, who came to the factory with all his friends and then made a complaint. It’s nice for the Malays that they have friends to help them fight their causes, but it makes an employer think very very carefully before allowing someone into their company who can cause a major problem later if there is a disagreement.

    The net result is that private companies certainly do employ Malays, but they tend to keep them out of the office and in more proximal positions like lorry drivers, warehouse staff, etc. In a way, it’s a thin band of employment since they can’t be trusted to do the higher jobs and they’re unwilling to do the lower jobs.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
    , @Erebus
  480. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    Totally, but Majapahit was kind of the first local power to exert a wide control over that area. If i recall, Indonesians still consider themselves a successor to that empire (kind of like how Persians still consider themselves inheritors of the Achaeminid Empire). I think this summarizes it well

    I get the feeling that was a mostly Javanese affair. I’m not sure how the Sumatrans or East Indonesians would feel about it. Javanese are often seen by Sumatrans, Balinese, or East Indonesians as invaders so I’m not sure if they’d feel happy to share in their glories.

    Perhaps the Sumatrans would feel closer to the Sri Wijaya empire? It’s echos still ring strongly in the Ramayana supermarket, common names like Shanti, and even the Ramayana epic being shown on children’s television when my generation were growing up.

    I don’t know, Talha. I’m guessing. Indonesia’s pretty complicated and very much a new nation.

    Would love to visit. If Muslims ever get kicked out of the West, Selangor is currently in the running as a place I would think about settling down in.

    Selangor’s not so nice, Talha. It’s an extension of Kuala Lumpur which is not bad by capital city standards but still a bit of a hole. Compared to where I live, people are not so friendly and everyone is short of time and space.

    Have you considered Melaka, Ipoh or Penang? These all offer a good work-life balance. Melaka has perhaps a bit less economic opportunity, but then again it’s commutable to KL and only an hour’s drive from the KL international airport. There’s also Kuching, which has the most wonderful people but may be a bit remote for yourself.

    Believe it or not, but there are groups of Muslims in places like America that have been scoping out places to either immigrate to or have as an escape hatch in case things escalate.

    Seems sensible. Americans are crazy and I don’t blame them.

    One group has found Malaysia to be a good spot and they are starting a nascent expatriate community there of fellow Muslims from America that have a common culture. I’m not sure what state, but likely near Kuala Lumpur.

    They’ll probably head to KL just because that’s all people know.

    But why do you need to be part of an expat community anyway, Talha? Many Malaysians speak English fluently and, as an already bilingual Pakistani, you’ll pick up Bahasa Melayu very fast. There are already many Pakistanis all over Malaysia, not stuck in their own communities, but living freely as individuals in many different regions. Some are married locally, some just come for business. Pakistanis are respected and welcomed, and not considered to be low class foreign workers like the Bangladeshis.

    I hope that will change things. That system sounds very exploitative in its current form.

    I’m sorry if I’ve sounded overly negative. Actually, the system works pretty well by and large. The Malays get socialism, the Chinese get capitalism, and the Banglas get a better deal than they did back home. Like many things in Malaysia, nothing is done properly, everything is a hack, and yet it somehow works itself out in a reasonably agreeable way.

    Is there any way I can contact you, Talha? I need to keep my anonymity online but I’d love to be of assistance should you ever wish to move here.

    • Replies: @Talha
  481. peterAUS says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Get a grip.

    You mean about “man has to pay his bills”?

    You know perfectly well that our media lie to us all the time even about our own, domestic matters.

    Mainstream media lie to us most of the time, obviously. Earth orbits around Sun. Next.

    My experience with China, which dates to 1967, suggests that they lie 10x about countries that do not obey us.

    And Earth orbits……

    Is your experience of our media different from mine?

    You call me schizophrenic?

    Be that as it is, what does that have with your sycophantic attitude towards Beijing, shown in the article?

    Listen, all what some of us here would like is that you tone down that a NOTCH.
    Just call “state oppression of minority” as it is. Call “forced indoctrination” as it is. Simply call shit…shit.

    I get what you are doing. Any chance you could do it with some style, smoothness…..simple basic respect for readers here.

    Is that too much to ask? Your handlers should realize that crude propaganda simply has the opposite effect. I know that slant-eye Communists have problem grasping that, but….hehe…shouldn’t you advise them? Isn’t that supposed to be a part of the job?

    Yes, Uyghurs want separation. Tick.
    Yes, the regime in Beijing doesn’t want that. Tick.

    Your handlers should actually be proud by their quite sophisticated and moderate approach to the problem. Beats US own approach in the War of Northern Aggression. But, it’s a state opression of a minority, not some….whatever you wrote in the article.

  482. Talha says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Fair enough – not everyone can be an Olivier Roy.

    How about Chinese government policy in general; any valid criticisms in your mind, any mistakes they are making that they should rectify?

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  483. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Do we have some secret magic information that the Party doesn’t want their citizens to know? Seriously? Nothing comes to mind.

    A few episodes of China Uncensored, maybe?

    The baby milk scandal? The chemical pollution in the food? Organ harvesting in prisons?

    How many of these are true? I don’t know. But one thing I do know is that if what happens in this video is allowed to happen, something is very very wrong:

    Please watch this video and then try to explain how this is actually ok.

    If the value of human life is so low, why should I doubt all of the nasty rumors I keep hearing?

    When a Malaysian Chinese friend introduces his mainland Chinese business contacts to free unfiltered internet and then finds them tired and shellshocked from spending all night absorbing previously off limits information about their own country, what exactly were they learning? I don’t know, but it was clearly something.

  484. @Joe Wong

    JOE WRONG

    The British defeated the Qing in the Boxer Rebellion in their own front yard and the Manchu invaded from Siberia and took over China.

    China fought the Vietnamese for 1000 years and could not defeat them.

    Or the Portuguese in Macau.

    So defeating the Spanish abroad is unlikely.

    Australia and Canada belong to the British Commonwealth. The US is not part of this. I know this personally because I applied to immigrate to New Zealand and Australia and was denied. If these were colonies, Americans move there as easily as Brits used to move to Hong Kong.

    Philippines belongs to Chinese-Filipinos whose syndicate runs the economy so China owns it more than the US and Duterte was calling the president’s mother a prostitute last I heard.

  485. @Anonymous

    “Inherently lazy and frequent mistakes”

    Your thinking is the reason for anti-Chinese riots and local objection to Chinese economic colonization.

    You wonder why the Malays in Indonesia slaughtered so many Chinese and the Malaysian government keeps Chinese held in check.

    Australians and New Zealanders should take note.

    What you have said about Malays is mostly true. They are prone to be dishonest, cheating, lying, promiscuity and this is more evident in Philippines where Islam does not keep these impulses in check and they intermarried with Spanish to become the Latin slum of Asia.

    Nonetheless, unlike Jews subtle subversion or Hindu underhanded power-plays, Chinese have no capacity to disguise their arrogance and racism towards the host country. It is just out there plain as day.

    No wonder Malays kill and eat them every 40 years or so.

    It will happen again sooner or later, I am sure.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  486. Ron Unz says:
    @Anonymous

    The baby milk scandal? The chemical pollution in the food?

    Well, I’d be the first to admit I don’t have a clue what’s really going on with the Uyghurs in China, and I’m also glad the American Internet is still pretty free.

    But I do think you might want to take a look at this article I wrote a few years ago…

    http://www.unz.com/runz/chinese-melamine-and-american-vioxx-a-comparison/

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  487. @Joe Wong

    JOE

    How come you can remember the Japanese but forget that it was Britain that actually invaded China and committed the war crimes.

  488. Erebus says:
    @Anonymous

    – Poor English, zero Chinese language skills

    I guess my experience is an outlier. The best English I heard in Malaysia (from a local), by far, came out of the mouths of Malays. As for Chinese, from what I hear, only the Chinese learn it, and they rarely learn/speak Mandarin. It’s wall-to-wall Hokkien, Cantonese & Hakka from what I heard. Of course, reading & writing are almost identical for all.

    – Excessive holidays.

    No shit! Between the Malay, Chinese and Indian cultures, it seems there’s at least one holiday every week.

    Trust me, Chinese employers are very pragmatic.

    Don’t I know it!

    Thanks for the rest of your views. Placed in my data bank for future reference.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
    , @Anonymous
  489. @Anonymous

    They will watch 2 Girls, 1 Cup or Mr. Hands or Tubgirl to see what pornographic horrors exist in capitalism’s cellar and that is about the extent of it.

    I doubt many of them gain much insight into freedom of information from this.

    Some, though few, of the Chinese females might be curious about other things but not most will also look at unrestricted pornography and giggle and titter at the outsized male genitalia on display and what Western women can be made to do for a month’s rent in the free-market.

    One cannot expect much insight from the masses.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  490. @Anonymous

    China Uncensored is a Falun Gong production and Falun Gong is the organization that invented organ harvesting in prisons. In a 1999 Time magazine interview with the group’s founder, Li Hongzhi, undeniably makes some astounding claims about the role of aliens “from other planets” that “have corrupted mankind”. According to Hongzhi: “The aliens have introduced modern machinery like computers and airplanes…everyone thinks that scientists invent on their own when in fact their inspiration is manipulated by the aliens. In terms of culture and spirit, they already control man…the ultimate purpose is to replace humans. If cloning human beings succeeds, the aliens can officially replace humans.“

    The baby milk scandal, uncovered by Chinese investigators, killed three babies and left a dozen permanently impaired. Fonterra, a Western company that was brought into China to teach the Chinese about food chain safety, was responsible for it. It pales by comparison to our own Celebrex-Vioxx scandal, which killed 500,000 Americans. http://www.unz.com/runz/chinese-melamine-and-american-vioxx-a-comparison/.

    chemical pollution in the foodis common in all countries and, since China’s life expectancy will surpass ours in 2023, we can reasonably assume that it is less common there than in the US.

    If the value of human life is so low, I suggest you read up in Kitty Genovese.

    When a Malaysian Chinese friend introduces his mainland Chinese business contacts to free unfiltered internet and then finds them tired and shellshocked from spending all night absorbing previously off limits information about their own country, what exactly were they learning? I don’t know, but it was clearly something.” China is the most trusting nation on earth (Sweden is a close second) and, when you introduce mainland Chinese to our media they are always shocked because they’ve learned to trust media at home (80% do) and find it difficult to believe that our media lies all the time about almost everything. They read, for example, about a non-existent ‘massacre’ in Tiananmen Square and assume that it really happened. It didn’t, and nor did any of the alleged Chinese atrocities. http://www.unz.com/article/tiananmen-square-1989-revisited/

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  491. @Erebus

    EREBUS

    What bothers Fuji shopkeepers in Malaysia is that they cannot run rampant over Malays like the Chinese in Philippines or Indonesia do.

    Whether the poster is himself Fuji Chinese I don’t know, but his viewpoint is typical of their contempt and racism.

    Its held in check by the Malaysian government because they don’t want another Indonesia.

  492. peterAUS says:
    @Anonymous

    When a Malaysian Chinese friend introduces his mainland Chinese business contacts to free unfiltered internet and then finds them tired and shellshocked from spending all night absorbing previously off limits information about their own country, what exactly were they learning?

    Nothing new there. Well, at least for some of us of, say, mature age and with….certain….job experience.

    That was quite often the reaction of those who jumped over The Iron Curtain and saw the life in West.
    Traumatic experience, for many.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  493. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    One cannot expect much insight from the masses.

    We’re not talking about the masses. We’re talking about high flying business people. These guys have brains and their need to know about the world around them.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  494. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    You still haven’t explained how a woman can be left to die on the road in front of dozens of bystanders when her life could so easily have been saved.

    They didn’t care. They didn’t bat an eye. They let her die. She was nothing but an inconvenience to them. The life of a human being has less value in China than the life of a dog in Europe.

    Can you explain this?

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  495. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ron Unz

    It’s a good article, Ron, but my point is that I just don’t know what is happening in China and that videos like the one I posted show that human life has so little value that pretty much anything is possible. Baby milk and fake eggs could just be the tip of the iceberg.

  496. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    “Inherently lazy and frequent mistakes”

    Your thinking is the reason for anti-Chinese riots and local objection to Chinese economic colonization.

    But it’s true. Their standard of work is simply not capable of sustaining the Malaysian level of economic attainment, from which they derive great benefit.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  497. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:
    @Erebus

    I guess my experience is an outlier. The best English I heard in Malaysia (from a local), by far, came out of the mouths of Malays.

    Definitely an outlier. Indians are normally the best, followed by Chinese. A minority of Malays can speak English very nicely (and we often find them higher up in government service) but if you drove into the villages and tried to talk to malays at the local restaurants, you’d find 90% didn’t have a clue. Genuinely, some of them are so bad they can do ‘hello’, ‘yes’, ‘no’ and then give up completely and let someone else do the translation.

    As for Chinese, from what I hear, only the Chinese learn it, and they rarely learn/speak Mandarin. It’s wall-to-wall Hokkien, Cantonese & Hakka from what I heard.

    This is largely true, except a few Indians can speak the local Chinese dialect and it’s becoming more fashionable for upper class Malays to send their kids to Chinese school.

    My point is that Malaysian business runs 95% in English or Chinese and that not knowing either is a disadvantage.

    • Replies: @Erebus
  498. @Talha

    TALHA

    “Gulf State Extremity”

    Dubai and Oman would not be the tourism attractions they are if they were Saudi Arabia. Heck, half the British expats in the Gulf are alcoholics and prostitution in Dubai is a huge source of remissions to countries like Philippines or Russia.

    Gays are more or less tolerated in Dubai and Oman if they keep it in the Discos and behind closed doors.

    The difference between Dubai or Oman or Qatar and Stockton, California is that it is not ON THE STREET. You do not have to see overweight black women in bikinis selling their bodies in public in front of children. There are not obscenely drunk people on park benches or addicts leaving needles everywhere.

    Drugs exist in Dubai and Oman but Baluchi dealers don’t push on the street. They know who wants them and they sell them discreetly.

    “Muslims get kicked out of the West”

    To the extent that Detroit HAS an economy it is held together by Arab-Americans.

    To deport the Pakistani business community of NYC would have an economic effect on the Jews, Irish-Catholics, Italians, Nigerians and whoever else there is doing business with them everyday.

    Iranian Muslims in Brentwood and Rodeo Drive seem to be well-behaved and wealthy. Perhaps more than Jews. They have a bad reputation as employers and their businesses are revolving doors, however.

    “Citizenship doesn’t happen in Gulf Countries”

    Some of the children of rough trailer trash oil riggers are born in Dubai. Would YOU want to pay their welfare? Or that of Bengali or Indians or Filipinos who had anchor babies in Dubai in order to become beneficiaries of its windfall economy?

    • Replies: @Talha
  499. @Anonymous

    It is also true that Malays are compulsive thieves, pathological liars, promiscuous, out-of-control drunks and prone to mental illness.

    Islam keeps these qualities in check in Malaysia and the Hispanicization of the Philippines seems to bring them out.

    If you remove socialism from Malaysia what you would get would be a horrendous slum like the Philippines-crime, corruption, narco-economy, Chinese meth lords, kidnapping of Chinese-Malaysian children, foreigners robbed in their own beds, casual street prostitution in front of children (Chinese women’s materialism inclines them to selling their bodies but they are high IQ enough to do it discreetly).

    Visit the Philippines sometime. It is a failed Malaysia. Part of the reason are the Mexicans and Spanish and Filipinos are a genetic mix of Spanish, Mexican and Malay. But still, if Malaysia was purely capitalist…it would look more like the Philippines.

  500. Erebus says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    How, when and where…?

    Are you serious?

    SFs work in secrecy, and no SF anywhere would ever publish that info or ever will. If you’re looking for “verifiable” facts, go to AF and SY and look around, or at least talk to a few credible people who did. And if you don’t trust your lyin’ eyes for “verifiability”, compare reports from eyewitness bloggers to the mushy denials coming from spokesmen of the govts in question. They’re out there. I’ve read and even followed a couple, but I won’t tell you why I believe them.

    As for mercantilism and WTO accession, have a look at:
    https://www.innovationfiles.org/top-9-false-promises-that-china-made-in-joining-the-world-trade-organization/
    More to the point, we had mercantilism long before we had the WTO, or even GATT. Your wishing to narrow its meaning to meaninglessness isn’t gonna cut it here. For myself, I have nothing against it. We’re watching it rise again in the form of National Economics.

  501. @Anonymous

    Secondarily perhaps but even Chinese businessmen (And a fair number of the women) are going to spend their first night trolling capitalism’s dark basement of pornography to see what willing bodies can be made to do for money in unrestricted societies.

    I don’t debate you, but first and foremost the internet is a giant free porn store.

    That is capitalism for you.

  502. Erebus says:
    @Anonymous

    Indians are normally the best…

    Indeed, the actual best I heard is the Indian CEO of a (Chinese owned) company I deal with, but he spent his high school and university years in England, so I didn’t count him as a local. His English is better than most native speakers. Interestingly, his Chinese boss can’t carry a conversation in English, and they speak to each other in Malay with some Hokkien and English thrown in.

    My point is that Malaysian business runs 95% in English or Chinese and that not knowing either is a disadvantage.

    It can’t be “95%” nationwide if 70% don’t speak English, but I’ll assume you’re talking about international, or at least high level business. I do note that business, labour and contract law are available in English, as are all the regulations, codes, ordinances etc. If the general Malay population, with whom I’ve had limited dealings can’t speak English, they’re definitely at a disadvantage.

    Thanks for the conversation. I’ll have to take a drive out into the countryside next time I’m there.

  503. @Talha

    The government’s current policies have 95% support so it’s hard for me, a non-Chinese, to suggest improvements.

    • Replies: @Talha
  504. @Anonymous

    I referenced the Genovese case because it occurred here and has been widely analyzed experts knowledgeable about our culture. You’ll have to ask someone like Robin Daverman (https://www.quora.com/profile/Robin-Daverman), who is Chinese, to explain the video and its context.

    My focus is almost exclusively on Chinese statistics gathered by Western agencies like Gallup.

  505. @Erebus

    Nonsense. China has a FAR better WTO record than the US.

    If any of those allegations were true the US and EU would have brought WTO actions immediately.

    They’re not so they didn’t.

    • Replies: @Erebus
  506. Talha says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    Dubai and Oman would not be the tourism attractions they are if they were Saudi Arabia.

    Saudi consistently gets more tourists than either of those, but for different reasons.

    is that it is not ON THE STREET

    Yes, very important; if you want to participate in degeneracy, have the courtesy to get a room or do it on private property.

    and whoever else there is doing business with them everyday.

    True, but nothing that couldn’t be remedied in about two years or so of adjustments. I have no delusions about Muslims being essential to internal Western economies.

    Would YOU want to pay their welfare?

    Not necessarily, but neither do I want to squeeze work out of them like throw away indentured servants – there is a balance to strike.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  507. Talha says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Thank you. I’m just trying to ascertain whether this is a political discussion or a theological one.

    I don’t question God’s decisions either…

    Peace.

  508. @Talha

    TALHA

    I am referring to secular tourism. Dubai is (Or was) an exciting city with a buzz.

    Let me say this about degeneracy: I could care less about Turkish hookers because when they are on the street they act normal. But seeing 300 pound black women in bikinis in Stockton, California was really hard to take.

    Disagree about ghetto economies. Pakistani and Arab-Americans are important to the inner-city. They manage to co-exist as merchants with the blacks. Jews couldn’t. Koreans REALLY couldn’t. You’d have no economy in the ghetto without Muslims in America.

    It hits some British and American expats pretty hard when they have to leave the Arab Gulf. From nice weather year round and pleasant bungalow and scenic views they end up back in some flat in the depressing English weather or an old clapboard house in some windswept Flyover town. Most of the South Asians return home relatively rich and life goes on. I actually think it is worse for Western expats, myself included.

    • Replies: @Talha
  509. Talha says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    Dubai is (Or was) an exciting city with a buzz.

    The good thing about Dubai – and I’ve known some people that have moved there – Sharjah is right next door and quite conservative. One can simply commute to work to Dubai and return back to their neighborhood in Sharjah.

    Pakistani and Arab-Americans are important to the inner-city. They manage to co-exist as merchants with the blacks.

    OK – that’s a fair point. But I personally think Blacks could also replace them, but it would definitely take longer than two years.

    Most of the South Asians return home relatively rich and life goes on.

    Some are sticking around…

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  510. @Talha

    “Sharjah”

    Its actually a bedroom community over the creek.

    “Deporting Muslims”

    How can you deport Iranian businessmen and Pakistani gas station owners and overlook Hispanic illegal immigrants who commit loads of crime?

    “Indianization”

    When I first got to Dubai, I met Indians who’d been there since the sixties. Many Indians arrive in their twenties and leave in their sixties.

    However, Emirates are mostly businessmen who don’t want to do their jobs. Oman is a bit different and there have been tensions as a result.

    • Replies: @Talha
  511. Talha says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    How can you deport Iranian businessmen and Pakistani gas station owners and overlook Hispanic illegal immigrants who commit loads of crime?

    1. Who says it is an either/or proposition – both groups may be deported.
    2. Islam. Though the convergence is happening…so, back to point number 1.

    LOL – the news story on growing Latino Muslims is from “China Global Television Network”!

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  512. @Talha

    TALHA

    There is not much that can be said of Muslim Americans that is negative. Think about it. Most come from the upper echelons of their own societies who are literate, educated, multilingual, intelligent, law-abiding. Some commit white-collar crimes but when was the last time a Pakistani-American mugged anyone?

    Hispanics are part Andalusian and the Arabs were there for 1000 years. So it is not inconceivable that they could become Muslim.

    But for the bottom layer of white society who barely hold a menial job and have the usual minor record and kids out-of-wedlock accusing Muslims of being undesirables is nonsense. Most Muslims earn more money than whites (Including a good number of Jews) and lower divorce rates and less social pathology than the lower middle class or lower class whites who would wish to see them deported.

    I’m an objectivist.

    • Replies: @Talha
  513. @Erebus

    What are SF and SY?

    ttps://www.innovationfiles.org/top-9-false-promises-that-china-made-in-joining-the-world-trade-organization/ is a collection of entirely unsupported allegations, like almost everything published about China.

    • Replies: @Erebus
  514. Talha says:
    @Anonymous

    I get the feeling that was a mostly Javanese affair. I’m not sure how the Sumatrans or East Indonesians would feel about it.

    Correct. Since Majapahit, Java has been the powerhouse in the area (its population dominates any other island in the area). Indonesia in its current state is held together mostly by the will and pressure of the Javanese. East Timor paid a heavy price to gain independence and it was only let go because of international pressure and because it brings no real benefit to Indonesia (descending into civil war very soon after independence and kept afloat by foreign donations). You remember what happened when Aceh wanted independence back in 2003? Yeah, the federal government sent a boatload of Kopassus Commandos that went postal on them. Indonesia reminds me of India to a degree (especially the idea of foreign powers keeping it together and having defined its current incarnation), except broken up and scattered over a thousand miles of sea. Without the Javanese being willing to unite everyone (again, think about Majapahit), it would break apart; why would Bali and West Papua stay if they could leave? I think the only thing they gain from it is military protection, but they could make a deal with the Brits like Brunei did.

    Indonesia’s pretty complicated and very much a new nation.

    Definitely some things are defined fairly recently. If not for the Brits and Dutch drawing the lines (often straight when you think of New Guinea) when they left, Indonesia would likely be a bit bigger.

    Have you considered Melaka, Ipoh or Penang?

    Malacca sounds nice – I haven’t really thought much about the other places. I would rather live in a Muslim-heavy area. I know that might sound weird to some, but I wouldn’t mind down-grading to a more simple, less technological and little more rural life if I moved out of the US (I actually don’t mind donkey carts in the streets or open-air street markets). It would actually be one of the reasons I move to a place like Malaysia (or Morocco or Jordan) instead of a concrete-wonderland like some of the Gulf cities. To be honest, I wouldn’t even mind living in a place like Kelantan – but I think it is too rural for the wife. The nice thing about Malaysia is that it’s not that huge; you can explore from one place to another in an hour or two.

    There are already many Pakistanis all over Malaysia, not stuck in their own communities, but living freely as individuals in many different regions.

    This is a good point. However, if you ask any Pakistani, they will say I am American since I was raised here since 6. But yeah, I definitely wouldn’t just hole up in an ex-pat community, it would mostly be for my kids to make and easier transition.

    Some are married locally

    Well, slots 2, 3 and 4 are currently open, but my wife might not take so well to that.

    Actually, the system works pretty well by and large.

    I would generally agree, else you’d have a lot more riots or other disturbance. Not everyone can get everything they want in life and neither are all people gifted with the same aptitude – God distributes His bounties among people as He deems fit. Everything gets made up for in the next life. So I don’t necessarily have issues about some people not being materially as prosperous as others, but I do ask a society or culture to have a few things; among them, allowing the poor to live dignified lives and to have a general level of decency (I would definitely be part of the fight against Malaysian supremacy, corruption and injustice in any small way I could).

    I need to keep my anonymity online but I’d love to be of assistance should you ever wish to move here.

    LOL! That’s the problem with me too, I could lose my job for calling LGBT parades degeneracy. You have stuff you can’t say in Malaysia without losing your job and we have stuff we can’t say without losing ours.

    But stick around on UNZ and pick a regular handle. If things get serious, I wouldn’t mind actually trying to make contact.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  515. Talha says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    I would generally agree with your sentiments that many of the Muslims I know are quite well-to-do, educated and law-abiding. America lucked out with who they allowed in as compared to France or Britain. But we do have that extremism problem among certain sectors of our youth; it needs to be tackled else people will use it to push their political agenda. There is also the tendency for Islam to simply grow once it is in a society – either by conversions or babies or both. That’s just how it goes historically – it simply has an undeniable track record. So I can understand the apprehension of people that don’t want their society to eventually become majority-Muslim to want to stop it in its tracks.

    Getting back to this Uighur thing (even if we assume the worst reports are true), this thing that China is doing may work if the goal is to get rid of Wahhabism. If the idea is to get rid of Islam – not going to happen – the Soviets did way worse than this and Islam is slowly resurgent again.

    But for the bottom layer of white society who barely hold a menial job and have the usual minor record and kids out-of-wedlock accusing Muslims of being undesirables is nonsense.

    But their argument is not one having to do with metrics; their’s is an argument about who has a legacy right to stay and ask others to leave. With respect to Muslims, most of us (the ones that voluntarily came here), are recent immigrants. My personal preference – if it ever came to a vote – is to carve out a separate White-ethno nation-state.

    I’m an objectivist.

    The ones asking for us to be deported are not.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
    , @Jeff Stryker
  516. @Godfree Roberts

    Do you not think Western media is biased?

    Of course I do.

    However, I also have some basic critical thinking skills. Therefore, the fact that Western media is biased doesn’t lead me to conclude that China’s media and government are above reproach, and that they’re supremely trustworthy. The fact that ordinary Chinese trust their media and government isn’t a sign that said institutions are trustworthy, anymore than the fact that most Republicans trust Fox News means that Fox News is credible (or MSNBC for Democrats).

    I also noticed that you still haven’t directly refuted the media’s claims about what China is doing in Xinjiang; so you continue to scream “media bias” and hope that suffices.

    I’ve never had a problem using VPNs in China, nor have any of the students I know there. Even elementary schools have them.

    I refer you to my previous comment. For starters, the fact that you haven’t had a problem doesn’t say much, since the government generally doesn’t care too much about foreigners using them. Also, yes, local Chinese can use VPNs and not get busted. Again, that says nothing about the laws on the books. You’ll find that people everywhere in the world can often circumvent laws. Do you actually deny that Chinese people have been imprisoned for getting caught with VPNs?

    Here’s why: In 2005 I found that, though we had been the tallest people on earth for two hundred years, the average Dutchman was three inches taller than Americans’ five feet nine. Since height is an indicator of national wellbeing I looked for explanations.

    Okay, so why aren’t you shilling for the Dutch then? Also, the idea that height is an indicator of national well-being is a bit silly. Do you believe that people in Serbia and Montenegro live better than people in affluent (and shorter) Asian countries like Japan? Furthermore, if height is indeed an indicator of national well-being, then China must be a pretty miserable country.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/maps-and-graphics/the-tallest-and-shortest-countries-in-the-world/

    What I found alarmed me: our wages and education were falling while homelessness, poverty and maternal mortality were creeping up.

    It alarms me as well. You’ll note that in none of my answers did I contend that the US is some blissful utopia. Far from it. That still doesn’t explain your completely uncritical worship of China.

    Concerned, I compiled every social statistic I could find, published them in a book and mailed copies to Federal politicians and department heads, asking were they aware of our drift? I received just one response, a thoughtful letter from the Director General of the CIA: his agency regularly briefed the government on these trends, he said. Since the CIA was on the case I set the project aside reasoning that my efforts were superfluous.

    LOL, oh Godfree, the narcissism and lack of self-awareness are just too much. Did you really think that you were important enough for federal politicians and department heads to respond to? Do you think other, more prominent people haven’t written extensively about inequality, stagnant wages, and the declining quality of life in America?

    poverty had disappeared from Chinese cities and would soon vanish from the countryside and that their education level surpassed ours in 2009

    First of all, the way “poverty” is defined is very questionable – both in China and the US. Whether we’re talking about poverty or unemployment, anyone with a skeptical mind should know that governments frequently cook the books to make both look better than they really are.

    Further checking revealed that, by 2021, every Chinese will have a home

    Given that China has the largest number of vacant homes and a lot of absentee ownership, I very much doubt that. Meanwhile, regular urbanites are increasingly cost-burdened. Given that the sources below come from China, you won’t be able to play the “Western media bias!” this time.

    http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/201808/30/WS5b872ad4a310add14f388854.html
    https://news.cgtn.com/news/3d3d514e30516a4e79457a6333566d54/share_p.html

    By 2022, five hundred million urban Chinese will have higher net worth and more disposable income than the average American and their kids will finish school three years ahead of ours and live longer, healthier lives

    Since China has a significantly larger population than the US, that doesn’t say much. I’m sure that in 2022, there will be hundreds of millions of Indians who enjoy a better standard of living than the average American. That says nothing about the virtues of India.

    ———-

    Anyway, Godfree, it’s been fun, but this is starting to get tiresome. Let me just leave you with a simple question:

    Do you think that China and Chinese people have any flaws? Just one? I just ask because even the most fanatical nationalists will acknowledge some of their people’s shortcomings. That you have nothing but praise for China is indeed bizarre.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
    , @peterAUS
  517. @Bay Area Guy

    I also noticed that you still haven’t directly refuted the media’s claims about what China is doing in Xinjiang; so you continue to scream “media bias” and hope that suffices.

    .
    Extravagant claims require extravagant proof. Our media has provided none so there is nothing to refute.

    Do you actually deny that Chinese people have been imprisoned for getting caught with VPNs?

    I know of one Chinese person who was given a week’s home confinement for operating an unregistered VPN which, in China, is a crime.

    the idea that height is an indicator of national well-being is a bit silly. Okay, so why aren’t you shilling for the Dutch then?

    . The context of my statement made clear that height is an important indicator, nothing more. It caught my attention and led me to discover more signs of our decline.

    Did you really think that you were important enough for federal politicians and department heads to respond to? Do you think other, more prominent people haven’t written extensively about inequality, stagnant wages, and the declining quality of life in America?

    . No, I merely did my duty as a citizen: to tell my representatives that an ordinary voter is aware of their poor stewardship. Do you vote regularly? Have you ever met your local representative? I have. Many times.

    First of all, the way “poverty” is defined is very questionable – both in China and the US. Whether we’re talking about poverty or unemployment, anyone with a skeptical mind should know that governments frequently cook the books to make both look better than they really are.

    . China uses the standard definition of poverty: below half the locally prevailing median income. China’s government doesn’t cook its books, as its record clearly demonstrates.

    Given that China has the largest number of vacant homes and a lot of absentee ownership, I very much doubt that. Meanwhile, regular urbanites are increasingly cost-burdened. Given that the sources below come from China

    . The China source is Jones, Lang Wootton China. The corresponding US source is the US Census Bureau, table 17.

    Do you think that China and Chinese people have any flaws? Just one? I just ask because even the most fanatical nationalists will acknowledge some of their people’s shortcomings. That you have nothing but praise for China is indeed bizarre.

    . It’s not their flaws that should worry us. It’s their superiority to us in the ways I described. I’m interested in us, not them.

  518. peterAUS says:
    @Bay Area Guy

    Good comment.

    Hehe…as for this:

    Do you think that China and Chinese people have any flaws? Just one?

    I just don’t think the handlers (and their bosses) would like that posted here. Or anywhere.

    I just ask because even the most fanatical nationalists will acknowledge some of their people’s shortcomings.

    True. But the author isn’t a nationalist. He’s just doing his job.

    That you have nothing but praise for China is indeed bizarre.

    True, but a man has to pay his bills.

  519. Seraphim says:
    @Talha

    What’s the idea? To allow the existence of a ‘White-ethno nation state’ in the future Muslim American ‘khalifate’?

    • Replies: @Talha
  520. Talha says:
    @Seraphim

    No it would be separate. I assume (and actually demand, in exchange for my vote) that Islam would be the one religion banned in that White-ethno nation state (aka Whitekanda). The Orthodox Church is welcome to establish an autocephalous presence there if they so wish, I will not get in the way.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  521. Seraphim says:
    @Talha

    So, you assume that a Muslim khalifate in America is a done deal (albeit in the future). And then you will vote for separating the ‘Dar al-Harb’ of the ‘White ethno-state’, from the ‘Dar al-Salam’.
    How would you do to create the ‘Dar al-Salam’ in the first place? Jihad?

    • Replies: @Talha
  522. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    Without the Javanese being willing to unite everyone (again, think about Majapahit), it would break apart

    Yes, that’s true. Aceh would leave so they can be Islamic and Riau would leave so they can keep their oil, etc. etc. … in that sense, the territory is Dutch but the spirit is an extension of Majapahit.

    There are still a lot of concessions though – the big one being that Bahasa Indonesia is much closer to Malay, spoken in Sumatra, than to Javanese language.

    Malacca sounds nice – I haven’t really thought much about the other places. I would rather live in a Muslim-heavy area. I know that might sound weird to some, but I wouldn’t mind down-grading to a more simple, less technological and little more rural life if I moved out of the US (I actually don’t mind donkey carts in the streets or open-air street markets). It would actually be one of the reasons I move to a place like Malaysia (or Morocco or Jordan) instead of a concrete-wonderland like some of the Gulf cities. To be honest, I wouldn’t even mind living in a place like Kelantan – but I think it is too rural for the wife. The nice thing about Malaysia is that it’s not that huge; you can explore from one place to another in an hour or two.

    There’s lots of open air street markets but certainly no donkey carts. Even in the most backward areas, most families will still have an old Proton Saga.

    Malaysia has a soul. Pretty much wherever you are you can feel a distinct soul to the place, except perhaps for Johor Bahru which is basically a suburb of Singapore. In this sense, it’s a real country and not a concrete wonderland paid for by a bunch of bedu who accidentally pitched their tent on an oil well.

    I’d recommend you tour Semenanjung before deciding where to live. Unfortunately, the Islamic states are much less developed and not many expats enjoy living there. You might actually find more connection with the Mamak (the Muslim Indans) than the Malays, since they tend to be smarter and take their religion more seriously. They’re a minority, but they have enclaves all over.

    I do ask a society or culture to have a few things; among them, allowing the poor to live dignified lives and to have a general level of decency

    If by poor you mean Malaysian Citizens, then they definitely have a better time here than in a lot of places. Even the orang gila (wandering schitzophrenic) are given food and allowed to sleep wherever they want. If by poor you mean Banglas, well .. they’re still getting a better deal than they did back home.

    LOL! That’s the problem with me too, I could lose my job for calling LGBT parades degeneracy. You have stuff you can’t say in Malaysia without losing your job and we have stuff we can’t say without losing ours.

    haha ah yeah I forgot you’re supposed to be a homo lover over there. Your anti-poz makes you an unperson!

    But stick around on UNZ and pick a regular handle. If things get serious, I wouldn’t mind actually trying to make contact.

    I’d rather not choose a regular handle because it allows my comments to be strung together. If I accidentally got unmasked at some point in future, my entire comment history would be tied to me. That encourages self-policing, which defeats the whole point of UR.

    FWIW, this isn’t the first time we’ve had a long discussion. We had a long running discussion on a Linh Dinh article once in which I was surprised to discover you were an orthodox Sufi!

    • Replies: @Talha
  523. Talha says:
    @Seraphim

    Nah man, you’re thinking waaaay too far ahead. I’m talking about all the White ethno-nationalists that want to carve out their White-ethno nation state as of right now. Like Jared Taylor, Richard Spencer and a whole host of guys around here that don’t like colored people.

    If they got the nation to vote on allowing them to break off a few states so that they could have Whitekanada in a peaceful way (kind of like how the Czechs and Slovaks shook hands and parted ways), they could count on my vote in their favor (again, as long as Islam is outlawed in that state – not much to ask).

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  524. Yee says:

    Bay Area Guy,

    “you – a white man – have taken it upon yourself to be China’s knight in shining armor.”

    Meanwhile, there’re probably 2 billions of Indians, Chinese, Africans, Arabs, Slavs around the world that have nothing but praise for the US and the West, but that is perfectly alright …

    Ok, probably it’s the Zeal of The Converts. And probably “Bay Area Guy” is also a new convert, to the US, I mean.

  525. Seraphim says:
    @Talha

    But do ‘White ethno-nationalists’ want to ‘carve’ a state for themselves, or they want America as a whole to remain a ‘White ethno-nationalist’ country free of Sharia, halal, burqas, Allahu Akbars and CAIRs.

    • Replies: @Talha
  526. @Talha

    TALHA

    “Majority Muslim” I just don’t think that could happen numerically. Unless Hispanics all converted.

    “Legacy right to stay”

    The most powerful and influential groups-Jews, Cuban whites in Miami, Irish Catholics and Italians on the East Cost-arrived in the US relatively recently.

    “Britain”

    Pakistanis in Britain live in Bradford or other post-industrial places of little importance while Muslims in the US live in the most important cities like NYC or Silicone Valley or Los Angeles. Nobody is going to leave these cities of wealth and power so that someone else can have an ethno-state. And I doubt Muslims in the US will move to Alaska to form their own ethno-state. If an area is desirable, every group wants to live there.

    So carving out an ethno-state is difficult because whites built these cities as vital ports and gateways to prosperity. Are Bangladeshis in New York REALLY going to want to live in some frozen wasteland in Alaska? Are Jews going to give up living in New York to move?

    “The ones asking for us to be deported are not”

    1. Muslim-American usually have more earning power than they do. Wanting a Gujarati Muslim doctor deported or Iranian businessman who creates jobs is different than wanting to deport MS-13 illegals.

    2. If Muslims WERE deported it would be because one extremist did something horrendous to the NYC Jewish population. Then the wheels of power and decision-making might turn.

    Let leave you with this. Did Donald Trump prevent SAUDIS from visiting the United States during his airport block? Or Emirates?

    Why not?

    • Replies: @Talha
  527. Talha says:
    @Seraphim

    Totally. If it was up to them, Muzzies like me, Latinos, Chinese, Indians (from India) would all be shipped out.

    Not sure what they would do with Blacks. I think they would want to incentive them going back to Africa if possible, otherwise they would simply want to quarantine them in Mississippi or something – you’ll have to ask them about this detail since I’m not 100%.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  528. Talha says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    I just don’t think that could happen numerically.

    I don’t know the future, but I’m talking like 500 years down the line. Of course, I’m not even confident that the US or any other nation we know of today will be around in that time span.

    Are Bangladeshis in New York REALLY going to want to

    If this happens, it won’t really be because most people want to. There will simply be ethnic cleansing from certain regions. Which is why I’d rather vote on it and have it done peacefully and orderly.

    Why not?

    Excellent point! Well, I guess homeboy didn’t want to be without his dancing buddies:

    Peace.

  529. @Talha

    TALHA

    Yes, but the problem is that South Asians, East Asians, Armenians and Iranians in California are the technocrats and business people and white-collar in general. The whites who want this the most are Oakies with a GED.

    I can sympathize with the poor white Oakies or Bakersfield Swedish-Americans on the subject of Hispanics. They are always in harm’s way (As I was in Phoenix) because their low earning power puts them in proximity of Cholos.

    The son of a Muslim Gujarati doctor or Iranian businessman lives Brentwood or Yorba Linda where this is not the case.

    As for blacks, they have been in the US for 400 years. And no African country wants an underclass. Africa has enough problems.

    • Replies: @Talha
  530. Yee says:

    The last major smearing- China-campaign was 10 years ago in 2007-2008, which was when, for the first time, ordinary Chinese Netizens realized Western established media twist and fabricate facts in their reporting. Some overseas Chinese students even setup a “Anti-CNN” website to expose the lies of the western media.

    Shortly following the smearing campaign, came the financial crisis of 2008… I guess another financial crisis is getting close now.

    Both times, the goal of the media campaign is to destablize China (best), or generate international enmity towards China, so foreign money in China will leave for the US market.

    All these trade war, China’s economy collapsing, media campaign, and military tension possibly in waiting, is a fight for the international cash flow. Finance is the core of the United States.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  531. @Yee

    YEE

    True, but China has the advantage i.e. Africa. They don’t drag around the baggage of imperialism, religion, cultural chauvinism, racism or anything else.

    Africa appears to prefer to do business with China. No matter what the US does, China and Europe will become major trade partners.

  532. Talha says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    You are preaching to the choir. You don’t have to convince me, you have to convince them. They think that a Gujarati doctor and Iranian businessman (or Chinese researcher) are genetically inferior to and would thus make terrible neighbors and citizens as compared to these two:

    Now – they are probably not going to listen to you anyway since you married an Asian lady and are thus excommunicated from the Huwhite race.

    Peace.

  533. Anonymous[208] • Disclaimer says:

    I think China has an authoritarian spirit but at the same time it has multiple religions. And I think many Chinese be they Muslim or Christian or Communist have ties that bind them to the place. Neither Christianity nor Islam came to china via the conquistador/mujahid sword and as such got diffused pretty evenly in the place creating a vibrant minority. I think China would be mistaken to disturb the peace as it is already in ascendance.

    As for the uighurs, I think long back they made a deal with the hans to defeat the drughar people (buddhist) who had wreaked havoc on han and uighur alike and it was then uighur were considered part of “China” by the qing emperor. I don’t know when things started getting soured between them. Perhaps the power equation changed?

  534. Talha says:
    @Anonymous

    the territory is Dutch but the spirit is an extension of Majapahit.

    100% agree. If you look at the foot print of the Majapahit Empire (as opposed to the others it fought with or replaced) the correlation is undeniable:

    There are still a lot of concessions though – the big one being that Bahasa Indonesia is much closer to Malay, spoken in Sumatra, than to Javanese language.

    Absolutely – everyone has to compromise to keep an enterprise like this going. If the Javanese were not flexible on this, they would have much more discontent and revolts. Now they can bring down the hammer on one or two places by sending in the Kopassus (it is estimated that a quarter of East Timor’s population died from war or war-related famine/disease – very sad), but if everyone wanted out because there is no general benefit to them, then yeah there’s no way they could hold it together. Their biggest issue is to keep Sumatra happy and to a far lesser degree, Kalimantan. If they can do that, all the rest of the islands are fairly manageable having just a few million here or there. The nice thing about managing a bunch of islands is that, as long as you don’t get too in-their-face with your own policies, they won’t mind since they have their own little island and need not worry much about you or anyone else on a day to day basis.

    Malaysia has a soul. Pretty much wherever you are you can feel a distinct soul to the place

    I know, again, this might sound funny, but the traditional houses of Malaysia and Indonesia are probably my favorite style among all the world’s houses.

    and not a concrete wonderland paid for by a bunch of bedu who accidentally pitched their tent on an oil well.

    This was going to happen as a prophecy of end times. When asked about one of the signs of the Hour, the Prophet (pbuh) replied:
    “…when you see barefoot, naked, destitute shepherds competing in constructing tall buildings.” – reported in practically all of the hadith collections

    You might actually find more connection with the Mamak (the Muslim Indans) than the Malays, since they tend to be smarter and take their religion more seriously.

    Since I’m not a hyper-nationalist Pakistani (those guys are just a nuisance), I get along very easy with Muslims from India (many of my teachers in jurisprudence and theology have been Indian) – so this might work. Yes, I would definitely make a couple of trips to scope out wherever I decide to move to.

    Even the orang gila (wandering schitzophrenic) are given food and allowed to sleep wherever they want.

    This is very good. But I’m talking beyond that – and I don’t know about Malaysia enough. So, for instance, I teach my kids that just because someone has a low job or does not have much money, they deserve your respect and you should not look down upon them (just as my father taught me). Judge people for their character and be willing to learn from them and take their advice if it is sound, irrespective of their material position.

    you’re supposed to be a homo lover over there.

    Yeah man, it’s no joke. Maybe you could get away with saying somethings if you are a construction worker or manual laborer, but among elite professions, my statements are heresy. The last two guys I interviewed for a position were both gay and (if I recall correctly), both were married. Now, I have a duty to and a trust from my company to hire the most capable person for the job so I will hire a lesbian midget Thai lady if she is the most competent. But it’s not enough that we treat people with a general respect as a human being, you have to celebrate this stuff and offer up your kids to it:

    I was surprised to discover you were an orthodox Sufi!

    LOL! Yeah, I remember that thread. Cool, so you know my deal. By the way, there are quite a few orthodox Sufis in Malaysia; many associated with the Ba’Alawi tradition from Hadramawt, Yemen.

    Apparently, there are a few restaurants associated with Hadramawt, too (unless hand-slaughtered meat scares you):
    Hadramawt Yemeni Restaurants, Malaysia

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  535. Erebus says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    If any of those allegations were true the US and EU would have brought WTO actions immediately.

    That’s an argument?

    Godfree, as somebody who’s had extensive real-life experience in China, and can generally corroborate your points about how well China has done and is doing to improve the life of its citizens, your lack of that experience shows through the cracks in your “statistics”. Tempering your statistical exuberance with real-life experience would lend a lot more credibility to your 2-3000 word compilations. Not to mention be more interesting. I do temper your writings, and that’s why your essays are interesting to me, but they’re seen as propaganda by readers without that experience.

    At the end of the day, the proof of the pudding lies in the eating.

    Did you ever run a business in China? Did you ever run one that had to both import and export (and wasn’t in one of the free trade zones)? If you had, you’d have noticed the difference between the two processes. There’s 1000 ways to make them look the same on paper but be very different on the ground. Be real. If they weren’t different, why is China building new free trade zones now?

    Pontificating on real life mercantilism by pouring through WTO records is like arguing about what tastes better by looking at recipes without ever having eaten any of the dishes in question. You’ve pontificated about IP theft, legal systems, and all manner of stuff you found “in the literature” but I’m very doubtful you’ve ever been involved in a legal case in China, much less one involving IP, and seeing first hand how de facto can differ from de jure without any rules being broken.

    China poured a huge effort into learning the WTO rules, and an equally large effort into finding the cracks between the rules to its advantage. They found them, and combined them with ingenious internal economic policies that leveraged them into what Westerners call “unfair trade practices”. I could write a 2000 word essay on how mercantilism or IP theft actually works on the ground just as easily as you could writing one about how neither exist by pouring through WTO records.

    Fair enough, the Chinese did their homework on how the WTO rules work, constructed a clever plan, and worked the plan effectively. The West didn’t, assumed the Chinese wouldn’t either, and got knocked flat in their own game. That is, the ones who thought themselves entitled to the business. Others, like Germany, run a trade surplus with China. They too made a plan, and worked it effectively.

    Now the US is crying “Unfair!”. I’m under no misconceptions what they would be saying had the shoe been on the other foot. The expression “We won, you lost, get over it” is one they love to say, but hate to hear. Nevertheless, mercantilism by any other name is mercantilism just the same.

    I can see that is changing because it has to to make the New Silk Roads work. China got told by their Silk Road partners that they have no interest in going into debt so they can import Chinese goods more efficiently. Suddenly, I’m seeing foodstuffs from the ‘stans on store shelves.

    As for the Uyghurs, I’m very doubtful of the Western stories about the horrors of the camps. I was in Urumqi a couple of months ago and the number of headscarf and doppa wearing citizens going about their business in exactly the same manner as they were on previous occasions was unchanged. Obviously, they weren’t in the camps getting indoctrinated, much less tortured. I ate at the same restaurant, was greeted by the same Uyghur owner/operator in just the same manner as I was on previous occasions. His smile indicated he was oblivious to the fact that they could be scooped up at at any moment.

    That is what makes your researches into the numbers meaningful. At least to me.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  536. @Erebus

    Good points all.

    China did indeed pour a huge effort into learning the WTO rules and an equally large effort into finding the cracks between the rules to its advantage.

    But it did so after the US and EU poured a huge effort into creating uniquely discriminatory WTO accession conditions that public demonstrations protested them as unequal treaties. The story is here: http://www.unz.com/article/the-wto-and-china/.

    Fair’s fair.

    • Replies: @Erebus
    , @Erebus
  537. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    Hi Talha,

    Your understanding of Indonesia seems pretty spot on. Have you been there, or just read a lot?

    I know, again, this might sound funny, but the traditional houses of Malaysia and Indonesia are probably my favorite style among all the world’s houses.

    Nooo! These are Minang houses! The Minang come from West Sumatra and are famous for being very religious, generally unpleasant, tricky, tight, but also cooking their extremely tasty Masakan Padang. Thanks largely to Masakan Padang, they’ve spread all over Indonesia and, to a lesser extent, Malaysia. But the house pictured is their style only, and it is native only to West Sumatra.

    This was going to happen as a prophecy of end times. When asked about one of the signs of the Hour, the Prophet (pbuh) replied:
    “…when you see barefoot, naked, destitute shepherds competing in constructing tall buildings.” – reported in practically all of the hadith collections

    This is why I don’t read much into these prophecies. ‘barefoot, naked, destitute’ would have to be a metaphor whereas ‘tall buildings’ would be literal. I think, given a free license to switch between literal and metaphorical interpretation, this prophecy could probably applied to anyone anywhere at any point in time… as could most prophecies!

    This is very good. But I’m talking beyond that – and I don’t know about Malaysia enough. So, for instance, I teach my kids that just because someone has a low job or does not have much money, they deserve your respect and you should not look down upon them (just as my father taught me). Judge people for their character and be willing to learn from them and take their advice if it is sound, irrespective of their material position.

    This can work. Malaysians of all social rankings can give and get equal respect. It’s quite common for a rich Chinese to have very poor Chinese friends, or a kampung Malay to be friends with a Dato’. Please note however that Malaysia does have an extremely strong caste system, where caste is determined by race and religion. So in this sense, Malays have only one caste and no divisions within, as do Chinese. The Indian race is divided three ways by the three religions, and then there are all the foreign worker castes – Bangla, Indonesian, Myanmar, Vietnamese, etc. From their point of view, their foreign worker castes are divided by language and culture and, from our point of view, they’re divided by what work they are suitable for.

    It definitely places all social interactions within a rigid framework, although this is not necessarily a bad thing. It’s the main reason Malaysia has been able to absorb so many immigrants, including the millions of foreign workers, without suffering any major upheavals.

    LOL! Yeah, I remember that thread. Cool, so you know my deal. By the way, there are quite a few orthodox Sufis in Malaysia; many associated with the Ba’Alawi tradition from Hadramawt, Yemen.

    Haha yeah we had a good discussion and I gained a lot of respect for yourself.

    I wouldn’t go anywhere near Islam in Malaysia, though. For non-Muslims, it’s a mine field and we are very seriously much better off if we just steer clear.

    Apparently, there are a few restaurants associated with Hadramawt, too (unless hand-slaughtered meat scares you):

    I’ve seen the Masjids on Eid-Al-Adha and I find it very sad but I’m not at all grossed out by it. For my part, I prefer to eat vegetarian food when available.

    Edit: actually, that raises an interesting question. Seeing as all animals are God’s creation, seeing as a good Muslim should respect God’s creation, and seeing as it’s entirely possible for a human being to life on a pure vegetarian diet, shouldn’t a very devout Muslim be vegetarian? What’s your view, Talha?

    • Replies: @Seraphim
    , @Talha
  538. Seraphim says:
    @Anonymous

    As we hear often, Muslims should eat foods that Mahomet permitted and not eat foods that he did not permit.
    We hear (from outlets like https://www.al-islam.org/message-thaqalayn/vol-14-no-2-summer-2013/eating-and-drinking-conduct-prophet-muhammad-mohammad-re-0#fref_9255fcad_16) that:

    “The Prophet’s favourite food was meat given its healthy benefits:
    Meat increases the strength of hearing and sight. It is superior to all the foods in this world and the Hereafter. Had wanted God to feed me with meat every day, He would do so.
    Sometimes he would have meat cooked in water and at other times he would have it roasted and served with bread. He liked sheep’s leg more than its other parts”.

    But not even pork is permitted in case of necessity:
    Al-Baqara 2:173: “He has only forbidden to you dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah. But whoever is forced [by necessity], neither desiring [it] nor transgressing [its limit], there is no sin upon him. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful”.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  539. Erebus says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Fair’s fair.

    Yup. There’s an old saying in poker: “Nothing’s easier than cheating a cheater.” Of course, the US thinks the sun shines out of their ass, so whatever they do is right and good and everything everybody else does is subject to their judgement.

    That’s why it looks good on ’em. Unfortunately, it’s the American worker who took the hit.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  540. @Erebus

    Who Took The Hit?

    I’m a run of the mill American worker and I feel much safer in Asia and did in Dubai than in Phoenix 1998 living on the periphery of the Guadalupe barrio.

    I have not been mugged since Arizona. No black ex-con has followed me down the street screaming that I was a white bitch. No scabby tweakers have aggressively panhandled me.

    I’d rather be where I am now than Flint, Michigan.

    Some of the patriots will talk about how urban or suburban whites can move out to the country and there are no gangs or crime. Sure. And do what? Be a gentleman farmer?

    As for judging the rest of the world, Tokyo and Dubai are much safer than Los Angeles.

    • Replies: @Erebus
  541. Erebus says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    The story is here…

    Missed that article at the time, but have read it now and also downloaded the Shaffer-Gao paper. Thanks for the link.

  542. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:
    @Seraphim

    The Prophet’s favourite food was meat given its healthy benefits:

    Damn! I guess that’s one more thing Mr. Mohammad and I will have to agree to disagree about.

  543. Erebus says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    Huh? Are you replying to me by mistake?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  544. Anonymous[367] • Disclaimer says:
    @Erebus

    No, he just takes any post mentioning one of his talking points as a opening to regale us with a chapter of his life story….

  545. Anon[164] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    List of United States colonial possessions, so long that you shouldn’t missed. United Snakes even invaded other European colonials with liberating hypocrite reason.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_colonial_possessions

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  546. @Anon

    You are right…I’ve never heard of most them.

    Thank goodness the US let go of the Philippines.

    • Replies: @Anon
  547. Anon[164] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Idiot like you & Peter from Oz always shoot from hips without bother to read further than your daily sewage west msm. There are various independent sites you can go to, but you won’t because unable to face the truth of your kins evil deeds that help enrich your life in stolen land of Oz Aborigines.

    When both come to unz, your interest is more on regurgitating West msm sewage than to learn from others.

    While there are too many evils deeds by US to Myanmar & China, i will just quote you the more recent Rohingya terrorism instigated by your US kins.

    Read these:
    1. Why US & Saudi is backing Rohingya suddenly

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/why-u-s-and-saudi-arabia-back-rohingya-in-myanmar/5613015

    2. Who is responsible for the direct killing

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/who-is-responsible-for-ethnic-cleansing-in-myanmar/5611486

    3. Rohingya pawns of US & Saudi.

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-rohingya-of-myanmar-pawns-in-an-anglo-chinese-proxy-war-fought-by-saudi-jihadists/5607605

  548. Anon[164] • Disclaimer says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Are you aware that Australians and New Zealanders now trust Xi Jinping more than they trust their own prime ministers?

    Even with centuries of smear campaigns to demonize China & its leaders…what will be God Xi to these sheeples if they suddenly stop gobbling msm sewage & wake up to the truth?

  549. peterAUS says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Oh, man, I’ve missed this:

    Are you aware that Australians and New Zealanders now trust Xi Jinping more than they trust their own prime ministers?

    My fault: too fast skimming through author rubbish.

    That statement is just CRAZY. You, sir, really lost the plot.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Godfree Roberts
  550. Anon[164] • Disclaimer says:
    @denk

    I have been using FUKUS too in unz without any single complaint in past. So are others.

    In MoonOfAlabama, Saker, and various sites, it was also a common term known as fcuk UK US, or with added France.

    https://www.moonofalabama.org/2018/04/fukus-strikes-syria-who-won.html

    Therefore, it is safe to say that since about 20 years the “West” is fighting FUKUS wars.

    https://thesaker.is/mrs-merkel-goes-to-warshington-nothing-happens-but-that-means-something/

    Third, unless the mendacity and cupidity of the oligarchs represented by the likes of Macron, May, and Trump (FUKUS) is addressed,

    https://opensociet.org/2018/12/12/fukus-neoliberals-caused-paris-to-burn/amp/

    France, UK, US (FUKUS). The FUKUS Axis is the Evil Empire

    http://www.pravdareport.com/opinion/columnists/16-06-2013/124848-fukus_evil-0/
    http://www.pravdareport.com/opinion/columnists/16-06-2013/124848-fukus_evil-0/

    Denk has been using FUKUS for some years in UNZ without single complaint, and his comments were always well written, factual & humorous, so why such sudden strange criticizing of him been ranting & gibberishing with the needs to improve his English?

    I doubt this criticism is from Ron, or was it from some moderator new to UNZ?

  551. Talha says:
    @Anonymous

    Have you been there, or just read a lot?

    Just read a good amount. I don’t know if I’ve ever even met an Indonesian before, but I know I have met Malays. Islamic doctrine and history are my fields of interest – there are certain specific areas which I wish I had read up more on (Malaysia being one of them).

    ‘barefoot, naked, destitute’ would have to be a metaphor

    Definitely has a metaphorical and hyperbolic flavor to it (as almost all prophecies do), but if you look at what the Gulf Arabs were in the 1940s (some of whom are still alive) then the statement is not far of the mark in a literal sense.

    It definitely places all social interactions within a rigid framework, although this is not necessarily a bad thing. It’s the main reason Malaysia has been able to absorb so many immigrants, including the millions of foreign workers, without suffering any major upheavals.

    Very interesting. I can definitely see it working, it’ll be very interesting to see how long it lasts. I guess if enough people see it as workable and good enough, then it can keep moving along. However, the demographic change along the ethnic fissures cannot be ignored forever.

    shouldn’t a very devout Muslim be vegetarian? What’s your view, Talha?

    This is an interesting question. A Muslim can certainly be a vegetarian in practice, but not belief. I have a good friend who is an imam in the Midwest and he went vegetarian a couple of years back and told me it made a massive difference in his spiritual state – so there is no problem in avoiding meat if one simply doesn’t like it or, say, the meat industry in your area is oppressive to animals and you don’t want to support them, etc. But you cannot believe it is immoral to eat meat since the prophets (pbut) did it and it was allowed in the Qur’an (within all its restrictions) so that aspect has already been decided. However, what is interesting is that, if one follows the Sunnah of the Prophet (pbuh), then one will not eat much meat anyway because he seldom ate it (he didn’t eat much of anything, period). Shaykh Hamza Yusuf has a good talk on it:

    Our family of 6 probably eats no more than about 5 pounds of meat per week between all of us, but if is was up to me, I would probably cut that down by half, but the wife also has a say in these things if you want to run a pleasant household.

    Peace.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  552. Talha says:
    @peterAUS

    I don’t think it is crazy, per se – many people hate their own governments and leaders. I would like to see a source…a non-official-Chinese source please…

    Peace.

  553. peterAUS says:

    I don’t think it is crazy, per se

    I think it is. The man simply lost it. That statement goes well beyond (well paid) propaganda work, even (common) trolling.

    – many people hate their own governments and leaders.

    Correct.
    But…oh my God…to trust CHINESE government and leaders more is just….CRAZY.

  554. Talha says:
    @peterAUS

    Honestly, I agree with your sentiments, I just want to know if he has a source to back that statement up.

    (well paid) propaganda work

    I’m still ambivalent; it may be religion…I’m not sure…
    “Chinese government officials have ordered the removal of a church display which contained the First Commandment because they believe it directly contradicts the policy of President Xi Jinping.

    The government-approved Three-Self Church was forced to remove the First Commandment after a visit from the central “patrol inspection team” of Luoyang city and Luoning county United Front Work Department.

    The First Commandment reads: “You shall have no other gods before me, says the Lord.””
    https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/cwn/2019/january/chinese-officials-wipe-away-first-commandment-from-church-display-because-it-challenges-power-of-president

    Peace.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Godfree Roberts
  555. peterAUS says:
    @Talha

    You know, it’s funny.
    You and me agree on plenty of things in this pub here. We probably, agree on a lot of things in general and could, I suspect, spend days discussing them.
    And…..hehehe…….we are, how to put it politically correct (this IS a public place, after all)……opponents.

    I guess, one day, perhaps (I am getting old and I guess you are in the same bracket), we could get into position to express our disagreements in a proper way. You’ve stated you aren’t the type, I know, but….you never know.

    So, regarding this Uyghur thing.
    If I had an opportunity I’d use, ahm….different methods there. These being used by Beijing are, compared to those, say, paperweight compared to heavyweight. Let’s leave it there.

    And..hehe…that “peace” in your signature. It IS a good one. Good strategy too.Winning, actually, as we speak.
    Mine is the opposite, of course.
    But, as things stand, I do have a vague feeling yours could be a winning side.
    As we agreed before: good times create….etc.

    • Replies: @Talha
  556. @peterAUS

    Before you launched your ad hom, did you bother googling ‘Australians and New Zealanders now trust Xi Jinping more than they trust their own prime ministers’?

    Didja?

    U.S., China on Shaky Footing in Australia, New Zealand
    November 30, 2018
    by RJ Reinhart and Zacc Ritter
    U.S., China on Shaky Footing in Australia, New Zealand
    Story Highlights

    25% of Australians approve of Chinese leadership, 23% of U.S. leadership
    In New Zealand, 30% approve of Chinese leadership, 19% of U.S. leadership
    WASHINGTON, D.C. — Many eyes will be on the G-20 summit meeting this weekend between a prospective rising power and one viewed by some as a power in retreat. Neither U.S. President Donald Trump’s partial withdrawal from the world stage nor Chinese President Xi Jinping’s attempts to expand China’s influence around the globe have earned them any fans among two close partners in the Asia-Pacific region, Australia and New Zealand.

    As elsewhere around the globe, approval of U.S. leadership in New Zealand and Australia fell precipitously during Trump’s first year in office. The situation in his second year is not much improved: 23% of Australians and 19% of New Zealanders approve of U.S. leadership. In both countries, ratings of China’s leadership are similar to, if not slightly higher than, that of the U.S.

    Line graph. About one in four Australians approve of the leadership of China and the U.S.
    Australians’ approval ratings of U.S. and Chinese leadership followed a similar track in the last two years of George W. Bush’s presidency. However, approval spiked during Barack Obama’s presidency, when no less than 50% of Australians approved of U.S. leadership, while their approval ratings of China’s leadership rose no higher than 33%. In 2017, Australians’ approval of U.S. leadership dropped below their approval of China’s. The two levels are similar in 2018.

    New Zealanders’ approval of Chinese and U.S. leadership has followed a similar pattern. Slight differences in approval during Bush’s presidency grew to a substantial divide under Obama. Approval of U.S. leadership sank to roughly similar levels as those seen in Australia after Trump’s election, while approval of China’s leadership has remained stable and higher.

    Line graph. In New Zealand, China’s leadership got higher approval than the U.S. in 2017 and 2018.
    Views of Chinese Leadership in Australia and New Zealand

    Every year since 2007, more Australians have disapproved than approved of China’s leadership. Since 2014, the percentage disapproving has generally trended upward, with a spike to 52% this year, up from 44% in 2017. This increase in disapproval follows the 2017 publication of a classified Australian government investigation into Chinese influence in the country. Australia’s former Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull used the findings of the report to justify wide-ranging legislation intended to counter foreign influence; the country adopted the new legislation in June.

    Line graph. The majority of Australians now say they disapprove of China’s leadership.
    In contrast, New Zealanders’ opinions of China’s leadership have improved since 2016, when roughly half disapproved. Disapproval of China’s leadership had fallen to 40% when Gallup surveyed the New Zealand population June 23-Aug. 5 of this year.

    However, this was before news broke concerning increased Chinese interference and influence in New Zealand. Allegations have also emerged that individuals associated with the Chinese government engaged in criminal activity targeting a prominent critic of China’s leadership, who resides in New Zealand.

    Line graph. In New Zealand, disapproval of China’s leadership continued to be higher than approval in 2018.
    Implications

    Approval of U.S. leadership in Australia and New Zealand remains at or below approval of China’s leadership in both countries. Australia and New Zealand both have unique, long-term alliances with the U.S., and these views among their public could potentially call into question the future of their relations with the U.S.

    Yet, bolstering the possibility of continued stable relations between the U.S. and Australia is the increasing disapproval of China’s leadership. Given Australia’s traditional alliance with the U.S., it is likely the country will continue to look to it as a balancer against a perceived threat from China. Previous Gallup surveys have found that a clear majority of Australians believe the U.S. would act to protect their country. However, China is Australia’s largest trading partner, substantially outpacing the U.S. Over time, this economic relationship may alter the current calculus of Australia’s relations with the U.S.

    A majority of New Zealanders, though a lower proportion than among Australians, also believe the U.S. would defend their country. In the wake of high-profile reports about Chinese influence and interference in the country, it is logical that New Zealand would also look to its traditional ally, the U.S. As with Australia, there is substantial risk that New Zealand’s economic dependence on China could erode the country’s relationship with the U.S. over time, as New Zealand’s trade with China has more than tripled over the past decade.

    For complete methodology and specific survey dates, please review Gallup’s Country Data Set details.

    Learn more about how the Gallup World Poll works. https://news.gallup.com/poll/245114/china-shaky-footing-australia-new-zealand.aspx

    • Replies: @Erebus
  557. @peterAUS

    Can you provide us with a link to a false or misleading Chinese Government statement?

    One will suffice.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  558. @Talha

    Over the centuries, Chinese governments have destroyed thousands of religious sites. The Shaolin Temple has been razed at least a dozen time.

    They use the tactic because it sends a message with, gasp!, hurting anyone.

    When you see a religious site destroyed or defaced it’s because it’s either unlicensed or in receipt of undeclared foreign funding.

    • Replies: @Talha
  559. Talha says:
    @peterAUS

    We probably, agree on a lot of things in general and could, I suspect, spend days discussing them.

    I agree. For the record, a guy that worked under me was a Croat who fought on the Muslim side in the Balkan War. His area was mostly Muslim and they were ready to have him if he was willing to fight for his neighborhood – and he did.

    opponents.

    I’d rather not be – especially if you live in the States there is a social contract and obligations as citizens, but if that’s how one wants it…

    You’ve stated you aren’t the type, I know, but….you never know.

    If my children were in danger, I can guarantee you I am the type.

    If I had an opportunity I’d use, ahm….different methods there.

    I know, the Daesh protocols…maybe minus the slavery. Look, you have to stand before God for what you advocate, if you’re comfortable with that – so be it, no skin off my back. I’m only going to be asked about me and what I stood for.

    These being used by Beijing are, compared to those, say, paperweight compared to heavyweight.

    As I mentioned, I am quite aware of what the Chinese state is capable of doing. Anyone who has read a history of China (and what Communist governments did elsewhere) will know – I’ve met Cham that were survivors of the Khmer Rouge. This is nothing in comparison.

    Good strategy too.

    We have to share this earth, I’d rather do it in a reasonable and principled way.

    But, as things stand, I do have a vague feeling yours could be a winning side.

    It’s a metaphysical question really. God wins, He always has:
    “Allah has written: I will most certainly prevail, I and My messengers; surely Allah is All-Powerful, All-Mighty.” (58:21)

    The question is, which side He decides to back in the long run – His world, we simply live in it. Your eyes will shut, my eyes will shut, everyone on this forum will eventually shut their eyes for good…the human saga will continue.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Anon
  560. peterAUS says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Compliments, actually. You HAVE learnt the game. Or your handlers have; same result.

    You simply keep pushing any insanity long enough and most sheeple will buy it. Back it up…hehe…with some polls/data, even better.

    So, we have “Russia collusion” and this ….thing….. of yours.

    Pays well?

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  561. peterAUS says:
    @Talha

    For the record, a guy that worked under me was a Croat who fought on the Muslim side in the Balkan War. His area was mostly Muslim and they were ready to have him if he was willing to fight for his neighborhood – and he did.

    Sounds as those records about Jews in Wehrmacht.

    I’d rather not be – especially if you live in the States there is a social contract and obligations as citizens, but if that’s how one wants it…

    Ah, well, one can’t really choose those things when they start getting real.

    If my children were in danger, I can guarantee you I am the type.

    Hehe…don’t say.

    Look, you have to stand before God for what you advocate, if you’re comfortable with that – so be it, no skin off my back. I’m only going to be asked about me and what I stood for.

    Sounds as a plan.

    As I mentioned, I am quite aware of what the Chinese state is capable of doing. Anyone who has read a history of China (and what Communist governments did elsewhere) will know – I’ve met Cham that were survivors of the Khmer Rouge. This is nothing in comparison.

    Yep.

    We have to share this earth, I’d rather do it in a reasonable and principled way.

    Hehe….yeah.

    It’s a metaphysical question really.

    Aha. So, while “we” ponder metaphysical questions “you” gain in numbers. Good plan, actually.

    God wins, He always has:
    “Allah has written: I will most certainly prevail, I and My messengers; surely Allah is All-Powerful, All-Mighty.” (58:21)

    Ah, well…we’ll see. God or Allah, that is.

    The question is, which side He decides to back in the long run – His world, we simply live in it. Your eyes will shut, my eyes will shut, everyone on this forum will eventually shut their eyes for good…the human saga will continue.

    The question is when, if ever, the sheeple in West with realize a thing or two.

    Peace.

    Hehe…..

    • Replies: @Talha
  562. Talha says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    When you see a religious site destroyed or defaced it’s because it’s either unlicensed or in receipt of undeclared foreign funding.

    Hmmm, so taking off the very first commandment (you shall have no gods besides Me) was done because the place had foreign funding or was unlicensed? Really? Why no mention of this in the complaint and why didn’t they deface all the commandments? They specifically had an issue with that statement, unless you are stating this is Western propaganda.

    Do you actually hear yourself, Mr. Roberts? Sometimes it’s better to simply remain silent on a particular matter.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Erebus
  563. Erebus says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    I scanned that article twice. The upshot seems to be:

    Approval of U.S. leadership in Australia and New Zealand remains at or below approval of China’s leadership in both countries.

    I saw lots of stuff comparing AU’s/NZ’s opinions of American and Chinese leadership, but I didn’t see where the piece compared their opinion of either to their opinion of “their own (namely AU & NZ ‘s) prime ministers”. In fact, there seems little mention of the NZ & AU PMs.

    I searched and found that AU PM Morrison’s approval rating drifts, even if widely, around the 40% region, beating both Xi & Trump. One of the lower published ratings is this one, https://www.essentialvision.com.au/scott-morrison which puts him at 37%. Not great, but still above both Xi & Trump.

    Have you misread that article, or have I?

    PS: Don’t mind Peter too much. You’ve served a valuable service on this thread insofar as you prompted him to type out a complete thought. Having mastered that, he may try it again some time.

  564. Erebus says:
    @peterAUS

    It doesn’t go beyond anything at all. Godfree’s voiced a claim that is eminently verifiable. It may be wrong, (I think it is) but certainly not within any sane person’s definition of insanity.

    Ipso facto, your statement says more about you than about him.

    I prescribe going fishing, and staying at it until you get a grip on your wits. If that’s too much fishing, stay until you at least get a grip on what words mean. And if that’s still too much, stay until you catch a fish.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  565. Anon[180] • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    Talha,

    Stupid Moslem like you so much excited to gobble & spread all West propaganda fake news obviously aim to drive Moslems hatred towards their targeted countries is the source of Muslim terrorism.

    US CIA, UK, France, EU, Turkey, Saudi arabia are the team of evils behind the whole Myanmar Rohingya crisis. Malaysia is a asshole trying to get political mileage by speaking against Myanmar, when Malaysia is one biggest abuser of Rohingya. Haven’t you notice and wonder why a sudden intense outpouring of entire Western msm 24/7 reporting since 2017…with the USNato countries and all their allied Muslim countries(Saudi and Turkey) gone hysteria overdrive in calling for UN immediate intervention, claiming the worst Genocide, Ethnic Cleansing of century? Yet they have never show single concern for these people for last 50yrs, nor for Moslems in Libya, Iraq, Iran, Yemen, Syria, etc.

    Ironically these are also the same countries committing naked genocide & atrocities directly or indirectly in Yemen, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Africa…in the name of “humanity”. Yet Talha has no qualm about it, opt to trust these war criminals lying machines.

    Read these:
    1. Why US &Saudi is backing Rohingya suddenly

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/why-u-s-and-saudi-arabia-back-rohingya-in-myanmar/5613015

    2. Who is responsible for the direct killing

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/who-is-responsible-for-ethnic-cleansing-in-myanmar/5611486

    3. Rohingya pawns of US & Saudi.

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-rohingya-of-myanmar-pawns-in-an-anglo-chinese-proxy-war-fought-by-saudi-jihadists/5607605

    I have traveled and lived in Myanmar for decade, its a very peaceful and safe country so resource rich yet make so poor by 5 decades of West illegal sanction in order to rob its oil & gas.

    The problem is people choose to be brainwashed and fed with fake msm news the whole life, believing without ever travel out to see themselves or choose to read no further from George Soros fake news. Even coming to UNZ, they bend on regurgitate toxic fake news instead of learning from others.

    • Replies: @Talha
  566. peterAUS says:
    @Erebus

    Ipso facto, your statement says more about you than about him.

    I prescribe going fishing, and staying at it until you get a grip on your wits. If that’s too much fishing, stay until you at least get a grip on what words mean. And if that’s still too much, stay until you catch a fish.

    Hehehe…always the same with you, sooner or later.

    Don’t mind helping with some online therapy if see some value there. Not much of the later in your case anymore.

    Have fun.

    • Replies: @Erebus
  567. Talha says:
    @peterAUS

    one can’t really choose those things when they start getting real.

    Nope, but they can choose how they conduct themselves once the SHTF.

    So, while “we” ponder metaphysical questions “you” gain in numbers.

    You are projecting your cynicism on me. The fact is that there are plenty of us alive that don’t operate by “he he” Machiavellian precepts. I say what I mean and I mean what I say – and I am simply giving advice. I have no desire to replace Westerners, but that decision is not in my hands. God made it very clear to us how this works:
    “O you who believe, whoever of you should turn back from his religion – Allah will bring forth [in their place] a people He will love and who will love Him…” (5:54)

    Europeans don’t seem very interested in God any more, but what obligation does He have to them then? If they feel they no longer have need of Him, what if He decides He has no need for them? If He has decided the West is in rebellion, then you aren’t fighting Muslims or anybody else (we are irrelevant to the big picture) – you are fighting God. You don’t win that fight.

    If that is the metaphysical reality – then make no mistake, this is by design and the West is not simply making mistakes and being replaced, you have been targeted for replacement and the rest is details. This is the time to go back to God in utter and abject humility and beg Him to take you back and reform your ways and your society (starting first with oneself). And if you are too proud for this…there were others that have passed that were quite proud too. Why aren’t people in the West having babies and gaining in numbers? Perhaps pondering this larger metaphysical question will result in them actually having some.

    Up to you – but if it is the reality – then it doesn’t matter whether you want to believe it or not.

    the sheeple in West with realize a thing or two

    Indeed. When will they wake up and take the means to save themselves?

    Peace.

  568. Anon[180] • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    Didn’t need the UN, anybody with two eyes could see thousands of pencil-thin villagers trying to cross into Bangladesh by land or boats. There were plenty of local journalists that did interviews about villages being burnt down and villagers being pushed out.

    So what’s purpose to have your two eyes viewing thru 5Eyes lying machine?

    Pls provide source proving plenty local journalists(not West sponsored liars) interviewing villages (Moslems) been burnt down? And where is Talha crying for those plentiful of Rakkhaine Buddhists & Hindus been massacre with villages burn down by your Rohingya terrorist brothers?

    Why did Myanmar gov & all its people(incl local Muslims) recognized hundreds of ethnic minority of all religions except Rohingya? Because they are Bengali from Bangladesh Chittagong brought in by British Raj to invade Burma, and stay on to massacre Rakkhaine locals, demanding separation that no gov ever will agree. Go read history before spewing lies.

    Its so easy to drive Muslims to jihad against targeted countries by just whispering into their lofty ears, Non-FUKUS is genociding Muslims. Then they will fight Russians in Afhg & Chechnya, Chinese in Uyghur, Myanmar in Rakkhaine, …but these stupid Moslems will never bother to see with their own 2eyes like Talha how FUKUS are slaughtering millions Muslims everywhere openly up till now, & how they help Israel to slaughter more Moslems.

    If that is still not enough, then whisper again to these fools who believed Allah has 81virgins awaiting them to commit terrorism=Jihad against anyone FUKUS instructed, Shiah is killing Sunni, the magix will always work.

    Muslim terrorism is not a coincident, its deeply ingrained in the religion so fervently to genocide non believers in name of religion & protecting(growing) their owns with a long trail of bloody history. Its a religion that won’t live in harmony with others until they invaded & converted all. Like the West Crusader, mutilating from the same source of predatory religion.

    The hypocrite PC West pretend not to see this, Obama Hussein even block using the word Muslim from terrorists. But in their hearts, they all know what is it.

    • Replies: @Talha
  569. Talha says:
    @Anon

    Yet Talha has no qualm about it

    Why you guys think you can speak on my behalf is beyond me. I whole-heartedly condemn all of these military attacks that the Anglo-Zionists have started; Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen, etc. Yemen is a horrific humanitarian disaster right now. Hell, I’ll throw in Vietnam, Grenada, etc. But this is not an article about those places though, is it?

    I did not get my information on the Rohingya issue from the MSM. If you read what I had posted, I had gotten my information from the very credible relief organizations (both Christian and Muslim) on the border of Bangladesh that did direct interviews with the refugees that were streaming in.

    If you do not think those organizations are credible, that’s fine.

    And, yes I acknowledge things were kicked into gear by militants attacking the Burmese military, I don’t think anyone opposes that assertion. What is in question is the legitimacy, scale and indiscriminate nature of the response. Your own source (third link) states:
    “The army and police responded, as is usual in this conflict, by burning down Rohingya townships suspected of hiding guerrilla forces.”

    I’m not asking for US military intervention into the area, am I? I want this to be resolved as best and as quickly as it can by the Bangladesh and Burmese governments, which they have been working on.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
    , @Anon
  570. Anon[180] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    Not after been driven out reluctantly & massacred million that Prez Duterte tried to present in Asean meeting to remind everyone.

    Murkans are still trying to grab back their Philippine vassal with more military bases. When refused, despatched ISIS to launch mega attack that could overwhelm entire Philippine Army to occupied entire city, of course with USN help to ship in from Syria all the heavy weapons & moderate terrorists evading Philippine coast guards.

    Thank Gawk China help to defeat FUKUS terrorists before they spread to entire Asean.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  571. Erebus says:
    @Talha

    They specifically had an issue with that statement, unless you are stating this is Western propaganda.

    Well, your link leads to a “Christian” site, so is at the very least suspect. The saying “Lie like a Christian” didn’t spring into use ex nihilo.

    Religion in China is tolerated, so long as it isn’t overtly political. As normally formulated, the first three commandments are political statements. Not knowing how the three were worded in Chinese, perhaps #2 & #3 were not overtly political, but the first was reportedly written as:

    “You shall have no other gods before me, says the Lord.”

    IOW, nothing if not political assuming not too much was lost in translation.

    Having said all that, this may have been a case of a local official proving his Party chops, or an anti-religious crusader. We have no idea if the church appealed his defacement, or if they succeeded in getting it overturned, or were allowed to reword it to satisfy the letter of the law. What we have is a vignette that seems part of longer story.

    You, as a student of the origins & history of Islam should know the political motivations behind proselytizing religions as well as anyone, but beyond being political the first commandment casts an aspersion on other, non-monotheistic religions, and even Islam itself if one grinds the point sufficiently sharp. That may lead to religious strife, which is anathema to the Chinese govt.

    In summary, the first three commandments were political statements when they were formulated 2500 yrs ago, and they didn’t miss a day until now in continuing their original political function. The other seven commandments, arguably aren’t. The Chinese govt understands the difference.

    • Replies: @Talha
  572. Talha says:
    @Anon

    your Rohingya terrorist brothers

    I condemn their actions as immoral and abhorrent. Do you condemn the reprisals by the Burmese military which burned down Rohingya townships according to your own source? Or does condemnation only go one way with you when it comes to innocent people?

    I’m not asking for a separate Rakhine state, am I?

    Honestly, you guys start sounding like Zionists when it comes to your pet projects. I have zero problems condemning acts of brutality and massacres of innocents no matter who carries it out. You simply want one side condemned; just like the Zionists with their “but, but Muslim terrorists, so we can go postal on the population.”

    Seriously man, learn some basic-level moral principles.

    Muslim terrorism is not a coincident, its deeply ingrained in the religion so fervently to genocide non believers in name of religion & protecting(growing) their owns with a long trail of bloody history.

    Copy and paste from the Zionist playbook, where did you get that, jihadwatch? See, let’s be serious – you don’t mind “FUKUS” killing Muslims, you just mind them siccing them on you.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Anon
  573. @Anon

    The Spanish still run the Philippines, not Americans. Any “Haciendero” Spanish Mestizo can pass for an Italian. The Americans came and went, the great-grandchildren of Spanish are still running the Philippines.

    As for Mindanao, America just does not want to waste our money or American resources/lives so we ignored the request.

    Let the Chinese fight the Muslims, they make all the money in the Philippines.

    As for US bases in the Philippines, we actually agree.

  574. Erebus says:
    @peterAUS

    Your …

    That statement is just CRAZY. You, sir, really lost the plot.

    and

    The man simply lost it. That statement goes well beyond (well paid) propaganda work, even (common) trolling.

    … moved the discussion to a very low plane.

    Hehehe…always the same with you, sooner or later.

    Yes, I meet insults and ravings with a dose of sarcasm. That you’re often its object should be instructive. Anyhow, I just tried to raise your game to a slightly higher plane, pointing out that there’s a difference between “crazy” and “wrong/mistaken”. A difference that typically escapes people who are in fact the former.

    Have fun.

    I don’t know that it’s “fun”, but I view your persona as, above all, a useful foil for rational argument. Insofar, your role appears to be secure.

  575. @Talha

    TALHA

    The Sheepie are running out of protein. Wars in the Middle East have more or less bankrupted the US over the last seventeen, heck, eighteen years.

    Economists predicted that the war would be a boom to the economy…then came the Great Recession.

    Compare life in the US now to the Clinton era (You would have been young then).

  576. peterAUS says:
    @Talha

    …they can choose how they conduct themselves once the SHTF.

    Aha…….

    I have no desire to replace Westerners, but that decision is not in my hands.

    Yeah.
    As:

    God made it very clear to us how this works:
    “O you who believe, whoever of you should turn back from his religion – Allah will bring forth [in their place] a people He will love and who will love Him…” (5:54)

    Desire, I mean.

    …you have been targeted for replacement and the rest is details.

    Oh yes.

    When will they wake up and take the means to save themselves?

    Ah, well, that’s The Question.
    I am hopeful, though.
    Takes, say…….6 months to get into proper mindset. From then on it’s matter of resources and expertise. If all good… around 3 months to do the job, IMHO. Tops.

  577. @peterAUS

    Are you aware that your only response to the unfamiliar (but otherwise authoritative) information in this article is to insult me?

    That’s your MO, isn’t it? If it’s unconscious of this quirk that’s OK, we’ve all got blind spots, but if you’re a professional troll you should be docked a day’s pay.

    Whatever their affiliation, Western trolls are just people struggling to maintain their cognitive dissonance and lashing out at anyone who suggests that things might be different than TV and mass media have portrayed them. Their zeal, when not mercenary, is religious, invoking a failing God: a Golden Calf of wealth indifferent to the deepening poverty of its worshippers because, in the end, it’s just a hunk of metal.

    90% of their comments are just assertions devoid of evidence and even logic, and usually heavy on personal insults. Most recently, one troll suggested that I had only posted an answer about Putin (too positive for their tastes) because I had sucked his dick. Obviously this in not an effective counter to any argument, but the reason for that is that they have no counter-argument other than to attack me personally.

    I now view such troll comments as the champagne of success because it means that I am using facts and logical reasoning effectively. These things are anathema to the type of person who makes troll comments because they live in a world in which their opinions are crafted by the media, not their own rational judgement, and having that exposed is extremely uncomfortable.

    “I seldom see an intelligent comment on websites that have comment sections. Most comments come from people too ashamed to speak in their real names and who are unwilling to provide their real email addresses. Almost all comments come from narcistic ignorant fools hiding behind fake names and fake email addresses and from paid trolls.

    I don’t write in order to be slandered by paid trolls and ignorant narcistic fools. I regard it as highly irresponsible for websites to undercut their writers with anonymous accusations and slander from no one knows who. There should be no comment sections unless there is a firm check on the commentator’s real name and real email address.” –Dr. Paul Craig Roberts, Fmr. Ronald Reagan Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Economic Policy

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
    , @peterAUS
  578. @Talha

    TALHA

    Yemen is a tragedy but it did not start yesterday-it was a mess as far back as the Cold War when Russia backed it.

    • Replies: @Talha
  579. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    Definitely has a metaphorical and hyperbolic flavor to it (as almost all prophecies do), but if you look at what the Gulf Arabs were in the 1940s (some of whom are still alive) then the statement is not far of the mark in a literal sense.

    Tall is such a relative concept. A villager may deem two stories and above to be tall. Anyone could apply this prophecy to any period of time. For me, it’s too vague to have any value.

    I have a good friend who is an imam in the Midwest and he went vegetarian a couple of years back and told me it made a massive difference in his spiritual state

    Interesting. The Hindus and Buddhists have always maintained this.

    But you cannot believe it is immoral to eat meat since the prophets (pbut) did it and it was allowed in the Qur’an (within all its restrictions) so that aspect has already been decided.

    This is where Muslims and I can no longer agree. For a Muslim, the book is final. For myself, all knowledge falls under the category of ‘transient mental forms’ and is thus open for revision.

    • Replies: @Talha
  580. @Erebus

    I relied on the charts:

    • Replies: @Erebus
  581. Anon[352] • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    If you read what I had posted, I had gotten my information from the very credible relief organizations (both Christian and Muslim) on the border of Bangladesh that did direct interviews with the refugees that were streaming in.

    Source? Your favourite GeorgeSoros Open society, US msm or HRW?

    According to Myanmar foreign officials & common people, & some independent reports: (don’t ask me for sources, read & verified yourself):

    There are so much CIA MI6 propaganda going on right inside the Rohingya refugees camp to blame Myanmar army on this historical baggage left by British colonist, to brainwashed these stupid Bengalis aka Chittagong Muslim who breed like rabbits(now achieving over 800K to be used as terrorists foot soldiers in Myanmar & China border where its part of BRI critical node.

    Even Bangladesh Muslim gov got so terrified of such eat & reproduced tribe overwhelming their resources, spreading their extremists wahabism to Bangladesh.

    Bangladesh doesn’t want these Chittagong tribe Muslims themselves. Btw, there are still estimated 20~80M such Rohingya aka Chittagong Bengalis inside India border according to Andrew Korybko researcher/writer, which FUKUS sepoy Hindu Modi had mercilessly drive back together last 2yrs to Bangladesh border without slight blip from West msm. Where is Talha your independent Christian & Muslim journalist reports?

    Now come to why China can never trust so called independent body aka West mouth pieces into Uyghur. Any independent msm/body or UN officials, even Koffi Anand got castrated ( US Albright: i will break his legs), will be smeared or subverted. UN did send in “neutral” Korean official(Young?) to lead investigation, that FUKUS-bitch pretend not to see the side where violent Muslims massacre Hindus, Buddhists & non believers with littered mass graves, burnt villages…the usual hallmark of jihadists.

    Rather she focus on Rohingya villages false flag attacked by Arkansas terrorists(KSA trained) , burnt villages of army counter insurgency actions to flush out terrorists, and defends against violent Muslim mobs to make false accusation reports. The Myanmar army banned her & UN from visiting the hot spots since.

    Muslim Rohingya is a political name coined by FUKUS, means aborigines of Rakkhaine that even FUKUS groomed leader Aungsung Sukee refused to use (so she got her Nobel PoliticalPiss Price retracted for not obeying while Obama continue winning accolades for his drones murdering & Libya + Syria wars).

    Their fight with genuine Rakkhaine locals have been on going for few decades according to Myanmar people. They fight each other sometimes violently, while army tried to maintain law on both sides. But no Myanmar people like these illegal Bengalis that were brought in by British to invade them. Its one historical baggage left over by British to every colonized countries.

    Myanmar had long tried to push back these Bengalis, but UN persuaded Myanmar to let them stay on to avoid refugees crisis. 1st Burmese General Secretary to UN, brokered the deal. But Bengalis wanted to be independent with a carved out land instead to join Bangladesh who refused. The separatists got suppressed.

    These Bengalis tried to say they are peaceful Muslim locals of Rakkhaine now, but even all Myanmar Muslims didn’t want to be linked to them. What does it reveal? And Myanmar gov knew well enough, all Muslims’ religious duty is to be independent from non believers ruling by jihad, nothing less. Talha, is that right?

    I’m not asking for US military intervention into the area, am I? I want this to be resolved as best and as quickly as it can by the Bangladesh and Burmese governments, which they have been working on.

    So China skillfully defused the bomb for Myanmar by supplying all the humanity resources to contain the escalation of FUKUS made crisis, denying FUKUS boots an excuse to land on its BRI port accessing Indian ocean. It then brokered a deal with Myanmar gov for Rohingya refugees to return with undisclosed term. Immediately FUKUS propaganda machine cranked into action, spreading their humanity concern that security wasn’t assured for returning while slaughtering million at ME.

    And Talha is falling for FUKUS propaganda lullaby so easily, even he is a such peaceful moderate Muslim intellects accessing alt news like UNZ. Oz Wizard & Peter will be happy to convince you FUKUS has nothing to do with all these Muslim crisis. What’s more for the hundreds millions illiterate poor Muslims?

    Hatred are brewing across many stupid Muslim countries. Malaysia & Indonesia Muslims even slit the throats of dozen peaceful Burmese workers.

    Uyghur propaganda & terrorism is another hybrid war on China, using stupid Muslims just like they did to bring down Soviet cheaply, shattered Yugoslavia, Russia(failed), Syria(failed), ….

    When one see a serial arsonist FUKUS that set fires everywhere slaughtering millions of Muslims, screaming China & Myanmar are arsonist in their own backyard kitchen cooking dinner, one should smell rats. But Talha swallowed the bait, hook & sink.

    • Replies: @Talha
  582. @Godfree Roberts

    Most posters are red-pilled.

    The Australians are somewhat naive about Americans and believe that every American lives in the South and wants his 9 year old to own an AR-15 and blacks are shot left and right because they have never been to the United States.

    If anything, the US media has more of an effect on non-Americans than those people who actually live in the United States.

  583. Erebus says:

    So, how is 25% CN leadership approval higher than 37% for PM Morrison? You lost me.

  584. Anon[352] • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    I knew you are good Muslim, but a misguided one. Read my comment again see if they are true & factual without colored by your religion & anger. Muslim has a soft spot for FUKUS, just keep whispering to them xxx is suppressing Muslims, they will wage jihads & forget about FUKUS intention.

    I don’t sing Zionist playbook, they are the greatest evils controlling FUKUS for most disasters. But i observed myself as i grown up with many Muslim friends, they are not less friendly like us, but their religion is one hard to live in harmony with if they truly live to its teaching.

    I don’t side China nor FUKUS here either because im neither of their people. But i simply disliked FUKUS evils and stupid Muslims for been used as their hybrid war tool. When Muslims are slaughtering Muslims for their Master Yanks fervently, paid by Gulfs oil money, what’s more can i say?

    Although i do pity Iraqis, Libyans, Syrians,…but without stupid selfish Muslims colluding with FUKUS, they will not fall easily. Fukus only can win the weak with insider colluding, not those nations willing to defend themselves. Afghanistan Taliban, Vietnam & Korea wars are example. Iran survived too.

    Terrorism has it root cause from utter ignorant, so blindly even to believe a religion with cook up illogical stories & cruelty providing no real freedom from suffering at this very life, but empty promise of salvation to be proven upon death(too late).

    I have written enough, if that still cant wake you up to ponder your religion abit, and alert of all FUKUS propaganda cranking humanity concerns that their enemies suppressing Muslims, then just let it be.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Talha
  585. Anon[352] • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    It’s a metaphysical question really. God wins, He always has:
    “Allah has written: I will most certainly prevail, I and My messengers; surely Allah is All-Powerful, All-Mighty.” (58:21)

    If God indeed is all mighty, why didn’t he just stop all his mischievous in creating all these disastrous suffering by a wink?

    No one wish to qn why The All Mighty God is so evil to create satan, all the disasters, suffering, killings, the defective humans rolling out from his poor QC factory riddled with mental illness, deforms & unequal from birth. If He is indeed perfect with slight humanity & love, he will never create all these sufferings & defective world from beginning.

    If God created everything, he is responsible for all the goods & bads, so he is indeed to be solely blamed. Yet he blamed the people for disobedient, condemning them to hell(created by Him too).

    And who created God!?

    Perhaps the power hungry psychopath colluding with greedy capitalists that want to control sheeples with a violent God story that always threaten to punish mercilessly for not submission completely. When old Testament don’t work anymore with all violent God threats, New Testament story is published. Still its riddled with illogical stories unable to back up by any means or archeology.

  586. Anonymous[469] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    i observed myself as i grown up with many Muslim friends, they are not less friendly like us, but their religion is one hard to live in harmony with if they truly live to its teaching.

    I agree with this. For most people, we are human beings first and foremost and the rest is details. For Muslims, they are Muslims first and everything else takes a back seat

    Again, it’s about what is your highest source : your own soul’s intuition, or an old book.

    As much as i love Talha and as much as i conceed that Muslims have many many good ideas, I can never place the lower above the higher.

    For me, God is alive. God is real. God is here and now, and anyone who prioritises anything material over the direct experience of God is committing blasphemy.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  587. Erebus says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    See #594. No idea why it didn’t post as a reply.

  588. Anonymous[469] • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    This is the time to go back to God in utter and abject humility and beg Him to take you back and reform your ways and your society (starting first with oneself). And if you are too proud for this…there were others that have passed that were quite proud too. Why aren’t people in the West having babies and gaining in numbers? Perhaps pondering this larger metaphysical question will result in them actually having some.

    I don’t think Islam is the way, because it has too many shortcomings of its own. With that said, I think you’re absolutely right in everything you say here, Talha. Europeans do need to go back to God. They need to do it in their own way. They’ve done so well achieving escape velocity and breaking free from the confines of organised religion but they can’t live in a vacuum forever. They need to rediscover spirituality on their own terms, in a way that is synergistic with all of the material progress they made since they flew their nest. I thought we saw some real promise during the 60’s when the hippies took acid and went to India. A few of the old ones kept what they learned but, unfortunately, society at large has remained largely oblivious to their discoveries.

    The Europeans need to try again. May God bless their path a thousand times over.

    • Replies: @Talha
  589. Anon[416] • Disclaimer says:

    12 foreign diplomats including Muslim nations invited to visit Uyghur, they found its different from West MSM lies.

    Those condemning & accusing Godfrey as troll & shills here for kindly presenting us the truth facts are indeed the volunteering armies of FUKUS 5Lies propaganda machine.

    http://en.people.cn/mobile/new/content.html?cI=1002&nI=9539376&aT=m

  590. peterAUS says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    I don’t write in order to be slandered by paid trolls and ignorant narcistic fools.

    Of course.
    You write to disseminate crude Beijing propaganda.

    I regard it as highly irresponsible for websites to undercut their writers with anonymous accusations and slander from no one knows who.

    Fine.
    Some of us find it insulting to be swamped with naked propaganda.

    There should be no comment sections unless there is a firm check on the commentator’s real name and real email address.” –Dr. Paul Craig Roberts, Fmr. Ronald Reagan Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Economic Policy

    Hehe…of course. CENSURE.
    That’s how your handlers …ahm…handle….dissenting opinions.

    You’ve given me some advice here. Good on you.
    I have one for you, again: tone down that propaganda. Tone…..it….down.
    Call shit shit.
    And, sprinkle, just a little bit, your work with very moderate criticism of the regime in Beijing. Man, that’s the very basics of propa…I mean, informing masses. I know that you know that; this is for your slant-eyed handlers. Guys, give him a break. Do this right.

    • LOL: Talha
    • Replies: @Erebus
  591. Talha says:
    @Anon

    Source?

    Oxfam – follow my previous link.

    The Red Cross, which has been there for 3 decades (way before the latest flare-up) – read up on it, they not only cover the Rohingya issue, but also other trouble-spots:
    “Shan State, Myanmar: Intensified armed conflict between the Myanmar military (Tatmadaw) and several ethnic armed organizations (EAOs) in North Shan State threaten to derail the nationwide peace process. The major EAOs operating in the area include the Ta-ang National Liberation Army (TNLA), the (ethnic Chinese) Myanmar Democratic Alliance Army and the Kachin Independence Army.”
    https://www.icrc.org/en/where-we-work/asia-pacific/myanmar/myanmar-conflict

    Your own source stated that the Burmese army is torching entire Rohingya townships. Is this morally acceptable? Request #2.

    Muslims massacre Hindus, Buddhists & non believers with littered mass graves, burnt villages…the usual hallmark of jihadists.

    As I stated before – I condemn these kinds of acts at the hands of Muslim extremists. And I have zero problem with governments trying to stop them.

    historical baggage left by British colonist

    Everyone has to deal with British historical baggage – does not give them the right to simply ethnically cleanse a population.

    The separatists got suppressed.

    I have no problems with a government fighting separatists – that does not give them the right to commit indiscriminate violence.

    And Myanmar gov knew well enough, all Muslims’ religious duty is to be independent from non believers ruling by jihad, nothing less. Talha, is that right?

    This is baloney. Again, Zionist talking points. The Myanmar government’s assumption of Islamic doctrine is of no consequence. Muslims are supposed to abide by the law of the land in which they have been given permission to abide – even if this is a non-Muslim land. Solution is to give them citizenship so that you have a legally binding mutual contract in place.

    If they are NOT consider them citizens, then there is no legal safety agreement binding between them and the Burmese. Neither they nor the Burmese should complain about the deaths of military-age males – both sides should keep women and children and old people out of it.

    It then brokered a deal with Myanmar gov for Rohingya refugees to return with undisclosed term.

    This is good, China should be lauded for trying to help bring an end to the conflict and return of refugees.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Anon
  592. Talha says:
    @Erebus

    Well, your link leads to a “Christian” site, so is at the very least suspect.

    Which is fine as long as one is consistent in this approach; if you also suspect Christian sources of what they report about, say, in the Muslim world. Otherwise one is simply picking and choosing according to one’s tastes and that’s simply not respectable.

    IOW, nothing if not political

    Agreed – God is above all, including the emperor and caesar.

    What we have is a vignette that seems part of longer story.

    Agreed, we don’t know if this is official policy from the top – I’ll concede that.

    the political motivations behind proselytizing religions as well as anyone

    Look, being a Muslim, I have zero qualms with the historical rule in place in Muslim lands that prohibit others proselytizing among Muslims. Only one order can eventually be be top-dog.

    My point was simply that even a purportedly pacifist religion will be seen as a threat to the government which has its own religion (it may not say it does, but I know religion when I see it).

    Now, the Chinese have certainly had some very bloody history with a very serious and muscular Christianity whenthey fought that cage match against the Hong Xiuquan guy who thought he was a brother of Jesus (pbuh). What was the estimated body count – in the tens of millions, right?

    but beyond being political the first commandment casts an aspersion on other, non-monotheistic religions, and even Islam itself if one grinds the point sufficiently sharp.

    Look, the Hanafi school has no problems with making dhimma agreements with polytheists and leaving their gods and temples – which are obviously an affront to monotheism – alone.

    The Chinese govt understands the difference.

    I understand – the Chinese government has its own definition of blasphemy; everyone does.

    Your response is much more straightforward and sensible than Mr. Robert’s.

    Peace.

  593. Talha says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    It was mostly a backwater, yes. And thus even more vulnerable to becoming a huge human tragedy than other places.

    Yemen produces (like Afghanistan); awliya, fighters, and (unlike Afghanistan) really good coffee beans.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  594. Talha says:
    @Anon

    Read my comment again see if they are true & factual

    If I hadn’t read your sources, I wouldn’t have been able to quote directly from them that the Burmese military has been burning down entire Rohingya townships that they suspect in retaliation. Is this kind of indiscriminate conduct acceptable? I have already condemned indiscriminate violence from the Muslim extremist’s side, do you condemn that from the Burmese military’s side? Request #3.

    without colored by your religion & anger.

    You are the one throwing around ad hominem and insults, bro – read your own posts. You seem very angry.

    I don’t sing Zionist playbook

    You could have fooled me, you sound just like them.

    providing no real freedom from suffering at this very life, but empty promise of salvation to be proven upon death

    Yeah…unlike your promise of absolutely nothing upon death after suffering and misery in this life. Your story sucks even more by your own standards – which is why atheists have the worst suicide rates and don’t have babies. At least ours promises people some kind of justice or reward in recognition of their steadfastness and patience.

    if that still cant wake you up to ponder your religion abit

    I have; what you are offering in exchange is risible by your own complaints.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  595. Talha says:
    @Anonymous

    They need to do it in their own way.

    The way they take back is up to them to decide upon. Being godless in killing them.

    I thought we saw some real promise during the 60’s when the hippies took acid and went to India.

    Unfortunately, without organized religion to keep it in check, the poz always seems to take over. Always. The Hippies were the original poz.

    The Europeans need to try again. May God bless their path a thousand times over.

    Ameen, bro. Ameen.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  596. Erebus says:
    @peterAUS

    After all that, you make it plain you’ve got nuthin’ but slanders and smears.

    Some of us find it insulting to be swamped with naked propaganda.

    You’ve done absolutely zero to refute even a single one of Godfree’s points, not a one. You didn’t understand the article, and wouldn’t know propaganda if you woke up with it between your legs.

    Your congenital imbecility and lack of class are finally, incontrovertibly, in the foreground. You’ve gone from amusing us by subtracting from human knowledge and dignity every time you set clumsily to typing, to exposing the tick ridden, coprophagous ape with pretensions to insights, that hurls faeces at his betters and passers-by from his perch in Bumfuck, AU that underpins it plain to all.

    What’s bred in the bone, will out in the flesh.
    Something like that…..
    Simple, really…..

  597. Talha says:
    @Anonymous

    For me, it’s too vague to have any value.

    Sure, I can see that. I mean it can certainly be open to variant interpretations as opposed to certain prophecies like; you will conquer Persia and you will conquer Constantinople…

    The Hindus and Buddhists have always maintained this.

    Not surprising. Being a Sufi, I can tell you, there is actually a lot of overlap in reported spiritual experiences. Some of the rigorous practices the Buddhists monks take to wipe out their ego is very impressive.

    For a Muslim, the book is final.

    Well, that’s a bit simplistic, because the intention of the book must necessarily go through human interpretation – which is why we have variant schools of law that can look at the same set of verses and come to different conclusions.

    and is thus open for revision.

    I understand this approach to morals and principles…the issue here is how susceptible it is to being hijacked by the poz.

    “It’s 2019, how can you be against {insert degeneracy}??!!”

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  598. @Erebus

    I misread it. Gallup’s charts are labeled ‘Australians’ [New Zealanders] Approval of US, Chinese leadership,’ not their own leadership–though it would be interesting if Gallup had included that, given the current state of Aussie leadership.

    • Replies: @Erebus
  599. peterAUS says:

    I misread it.

    Nice. Admitting an error, in public. Compliments, really.

    Gallup’s charts are labeled ‘Australians’ [New Zealanders] Approval of US, Chinese leadership,’ not their own leadership–though it would be interesting if Gallup had included that, given the current state of Aussie leadership.

    Well, not much to compare there; there is NO US leadership as we speak, obviously. Burkina Faso would rate better than the current …thing….called US leadership.
    That is exactly the problem. All that power, especially military, and all that….thing. Scary.

    As for us here and our little brothers across the Tasman, we are good. We don’t trust our politicians much (that’s why we still have Her Majesty, you know, just in case) but…hehe…we trust Chinks even less.

    • Replies: @Anon
  600. @Talha

    And khat. Things are worse than ever there but it was bad when I was on the border in Dhofar years ago.

  601. @Talha

    TALHA

    I don’t think he sounds Zionist. He is a Buddhist Chinese, or at least his religion is not Jewish.

    As for non-believers, whites, you have to remember, are born skeptics. Much more so than other races.

    • Replies: @Talha
  602. Talha says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    No, he’s not a Zionist at all. He’s just using all their same talking points on Islam – which is totally fine – I’m just calling it for what it sounds like.

    As for them being clean of Zionist influence or collaboration – please spare us…
    “Israel is careful not to officially confirm that it is granting permits to Israeli weapons firms to sell weapons to Myanmar. But the visit two years ago by Myanmar’s chief of the armed forces, Gen. Min Aung Hlaing, who met with Israel’s entire top military brass, was an indication of the cooperation between the two armies. During his visit, Hlaing announced that he had purchased the Super Dvora patrol boat, and he visited the Palmahim Air Force Base and the Gaza Division. A year-and-a-half ago, a reciprocal visit to Myanmar was made by Brig. Gen. Michel Ben-Baruch, head of the Defense Ministries International Defense Cooperation Directorate. In the past, Myanmar purchased Israeli air-to-air missiles and cannons, while an Israeli company, TAR Ideal Concepts, has noted on its website that it has trained Myanmar military forces.”
    https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/israel-sold-arms-to-myanmar-during-ethnic-cleansing-campaign-1.5459614

    Peace.

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