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 Max Denken Archive
Bitter Tantrums and Buried History
The Current Holocaust Controversy Between Israel and Poland
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Part 1: The Tantrums

An Israeli and eventually international Jewish mass hysteria erupted as of the last week of January 2018 over a Polish law that makes it a punishable offence to defame the Polish nation by speaking of “Polish concentration camps” or blaming the Polish people otherwise for the Jewish Holocaust. The hysteria started right at the top with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu who spoke of “attempts to rewrite history.” It moved downstream through figures like Israel’s ambassador to Poland Anna Azari, the politician Yair Lapid, and lower yet to species like Lahav Harkov, who tweets as “Knesset Reporter & Analyst for The Jerusalem Post,” “Proud Zionist” and “pink” feminist.

Ultimately a questionable new bill, sponsored by 61 members of the Israeli Knesset proposed that what it defined as a “Polish bill to outlaw talk of Poles’ complicity in the Nazis’ crimes” be construed as a form of illegal Holocaust denial–-even though that is not the Polish bill’s intention. It means to outlaw the phrase “Polish concentration camps” and other such slanders blaming Poland and the Polish people for a German genocide.

That some individual Poles, in a country under German occupation and continuous terror, did abet or profit from the genocide is an entirely different matter. Vultures, vermin and parasites are always drawn to the dying, the more so when their own environment is dying too. They did so throughout German-occupied Europe, where there was little German terror but many times the small Polish ratio of collaboration with the Nazis. They do so in every war of annihilation and every other major human disaster.

The same voices of opprobrium and outright slander as in Israel were raised by the international Jewish media and practically the entire major progressive press (Caveat: there is no non-progressive press). Time Magazine’s title was typical: “Poland Just Passed a Holocaust Bill That Is Causing Outrage” (2.1.2018). There was no mention of what causes outrage in Poland. There is hardly ever a mention of the Poles’ pain and suffering, but the writings about Jewish pain and suffering-–undeniably great but not outside the range of comparison to Poland’s–could fill the granaries of a medium-size country.

Jewish opinionators were worse than that. Let Lahav Harkov’s tweet (Twitter, 1.27.2018) stand to sum up the tenor of Israeli opinions, and Harry Maryles’s “Polish Death Camps” (JewishPress.com, 1.31.2018) stand for the Jewish diaspora’s opinions, without wasting verbiage on small nuances in the rest of them.

Harkov’s tweet consisted entirely of “Polish Death Camps” repeated 14 times. It’s a disgrace equal to the worst antisemitic slurs. I wonder how Jews would feel if I produced a post consisting of a phrase like “Elders of Zion,” or “Yagoda + Madoff = Jews” duplicated 14 times and conveying, ipso facto, that it sums up my opinion of the Jewish people.

Maryles’s article contains subjective assertions that could be challenged, but I’ll focus on just one that has the appearance of being more objective: “Except for the righteous gentiles among them, the Poles were perhaps the most eager participants of all nationalities in helping Nazis send Jews to the death camps of any other country. Just about every Polish Jew who survived the Holocaust–that I have ever spoken to–has made this claim.”

I’ll leave the rest of this text to formulate the anti-claim.

There were hundreds of other additional Poland-bashing utterances by Israeli and Jewish media, Jews of all stripes, politicians homing in on an easy target of a country “shockingly” 99.5%+ white, and the enormous Western media megaphone of them all. We have space just for one.

In mid-February, The Ruderman Family Foundation, one of those “inclusion and diversity”-obsessed American-Jewish outfits that do all they can to generate new American antisemites where there were none before, started a petition at NeverDeny.org, urging people to sign under the plea, “In the name of 6 million Jews, The United States must suspend relations with Poland now!” The Ruderman people also placed a professionally produced video on YouTube under the title “I will go to [Polish] jail,” with a lineup of American Jews saying “Polish Holocaust” and urging the United States to suspend its relations with Poland.

In Poland, the tempers boil, but the supposedly “far-right” government is strangely timid in this matter. Polish media are abuzz, but as far as the world is concerned, if it’s not in English it didn’t happen. It may well be that so many Jews with a public voice will continue hammering on this hot iron in an incendiary way that they will at last succeed in minting millions of new antisemites in Poland too.

Attempts to massage all these gratuitously offensive, racist, Poland-bashing statements do not work either. Emmanuel Nahshon, spokesman for the Israeli Foreign Ministry, tweeted on January 29: “The issue is NOT the death camps. Of course they were not Polish. Those were German death camps. The issue is the legitimate and essential freedom to talk about the involvement of Poles in the murder of Jews without fear or threat of penalisation.” A day earlier, Mr. Nahshon had tweeted: “We expect the Polish government to change the wording of the bill before its final adoption and to conduct a dialogue with Israel on the subject.”

Let me discard the earlier statement before I put the later out of its misery. For a sovereign country to declare so brazenly what line it “expects” another sovereign country to follow, is an outrage. It’s imprudent too for a small, remote Jewish country not entirely essential to the daily reality of Central Europe. And it’s foolish when directed toward the key country in the bloc standing athwart the Socialist-Muslim alliance–-the Jewish scholar of Islam, Bat Ye’or, called it “Eurabia”–that’s smothering the life out of that continent, its civilization, and its 2000+ year-old Jewish community.

Eurabia, whose leaders like Angela Merkel, and pal of Yasser Arafat Federica Mogherini, cry crocodile tears on Holocaust Remembrance Day and rail against “antisemitism” while being directly responsible for importing that antisemitism, via millions of their beloved Muslim “migrants” and the resulting contagion of public harassment, beatings and murder of Jews the like of which Europe has not seen since Hitler. Not to mention the form of antisemitism that masquerades as anti-Israelism whose purveyors are the same Communist-Socialist circles from which both Merkel and Mogherini and so many other European Union grandees have sprung.

How strange what Israel’s crème de la crème chose to criticize on the 2018 Holocaust Remembrance Day, and what it chose to pretend not to see.

Now to Emmanuel Nahshon’s earlier statement. We all know-–or do we?-–that the term “Polish concentration camps” was invented in 1956 by Alfred Benziger, a former sergeant in the Nazi Abwehr and post-war head of the spook Agency 114 that was sluicing Nazi war criminals into counter-intelligence work against the USSR with a wink and a nod of the CIA. That was a coordinated effort to shift blame for the Holocaust from Germany to the country that Germany had enslaved, destroyed and used as a territorial basis for carrying out its genocide of the Jews.

And we know, presumably, that this term has been used in German national and provincial media along with other massive bleaching operations seeking to relieve the guilt over Germany’s deeds during the war, including but not limited to the “Poor, noble German soldiers/ Jew-hating Polish resistance” TV mini-series “Our Mothers, Our Fathers,” a flagship product of the national public channel ZDF.

To acknowledge that “Polish concentration camps” were not Polish is as much a concession as allowing that Spanish flu was not Spanish.

Lastly, even if not “Polish” death camps, why in Poland? We know that answer too, don’t we: because those hidebound Polaks hate the Jews. That was the unambiguous statement of Yair Lapid, chairman of a minor party in the Knesset and Israel’s former Finance Minister. But maybe there is a simpler explanation devoid of casual anti-Slavic racism: Poland, because that’s where the Jews were.

Over one third of Europe’s 9-plus million Jews were in Poland, another 2.5 million in next-door Russia, and another 1.35 million in other countries then-bordering on Poland: Romania, Czechoslovakia and the Baltic states. And there were Germany’s own 525,000 Jews and Austria’s 190,000, with the united Reich not even bordering on Poland but having swallowed it whole either by direct annexation or through the Nazi-ruled “General Governorate.” All that makes for over 7.5 million Jews in a contiguous zone of Europe whose center was Poland. If you had the analytical German mind of people like Adolf Eichmann, was there another choice?

Let us now move to the most controversial and long-simmering part of the dispute, and the one that the Polish nation’s less strident foes in Israel, represented by the “conciliatory” voice of Israel’s Foreign Ministry, express as “talk about the involvement of Poles in the murder of Jews.” Of course, let us talk about that.

How many Poles snitched on Jews to the Germans, or murdered them, or grabbed whatever Jewish assets they could, has not been established and cannot be established as long as the maximalist side is represented by a sociologist posing as historian who is sponsored by critical theory-infected Princeton university, George Soros media such as Project Syndicate, and ultra-progressive/neo-Marxist German media such as Der Spiegel and Deutsche Welle-–remember the whitewash agenda there. Not to mention such purveyors of fake news as the American, Jewish-controlled newspaper that found only a Soviet idyll in Ukraine during the worst period of Stalin’s genocide there and, curiously, downplayed Hitler’s genocide of the Jews because it was bad for business.

The same newspaper that on December 10, 1942, published an article under the headline, “Poles Ask Allies to Halt Slaughter,” that started with the sentence, “The Polish Government has asked the Allied governments if there is any possibility of restraining the Germans from continuing their mass extermination of the Jewish population of Poland and their plans to obliterate the Poles as a nation.”

On Page 8, and to no effect whatsoever.

The same paper that, on February 6, 2018, published an article under the title, “Poland’s ‘Death Camp’ Law Tears at Shared Bonds of Suffering With Jews,” even though the reverse title, “Jews’ response to Poland’s ‘Death Camp’ Law Tears at Shared Bonds of Suffering With Poles” was equally viable.

Jan T. Gross, for that’s the name of the Poland-bashing star of the progressive zeitgeist, is the son of a Polish Catholic woman who saved his Jewish father’s life during the war and later married him. He has built a stellar career out of a gross libel of the Polish people, anchored by such nuggets as his statement that Poles during the war murdered more Jews than Germans. His selective retelling of well-known (in Poland) stories like the Jedwabne massacre has already been refuted by Polish scholars with better and more appropriate credentials, such as Marek Jan Chodakiewicz and Piotr Gontarczyk. As to Jedwabne specifically, a three year-long (2000–2003) investigation by the Polish Institute of National Remembrance concluded in two reports–203-pages and 1059 pages–that the massacre took place, there were about 340 victims (Gross: 1600), and about 40 Polish men participated in the crime (Gross: “half the village”), watched over and most likely forced by German soldiers who provoked (Gross: “permitted”) this crime in the first place.

A massacre remains a massacre regardless of the count of victims, but a major error or empty hyperbole that remains unrectified eighteen years after it was published evinces at best sloppiness, if not ulterior motives. Particularly so when the author is an academic and holder of an endowed chair in history, as Gross was then. The shabby intent transfers to repackagers of the libel, of which one reads many in the Israeli, German, and American press.

The kind of image Israelis have built of the Poles based on Jedwabne and Kielce is analogous to an image of Israelis that one might construe based on the Deir Yassin massacre or the terrorist bomb attack on King David Hotel. Throw not stones if you live in a glass house.

But it’s not only Israelis. Without a scintilla of knowledge in the subject matter, Heather Nauert, spokesperson for the US State Department, issued a statement on January 31 on behalf of her boss, Rex Tillerson. Opening with some bromides about the Holocaust as “painful and complex,” she proceeded to threaten “Poland’s strategic interests and relationships-–including with the United States and Israel” over the new law. Among the questions that statement arouses, one is especially piquant: does the US State Department speak for Israel too? And if that is the State Department of the “Alt-Right” president, why do we need to worry about the Left?

Not that it was dormant. “Poland’s Jews fear for future under new Holocaust law,” trumpeted the Guardian on February 10, 2018, opining further that the law “proved a diplomatic and public relations catastrophe abroad, as scholars, Holocaust survivors and friendly governments alike have lined up”–of course, to bash Poland with any “progressive” cudgel at hand.

As one of the proofs why Poland’s Jews now “fear for the future,” the Guardian-of-the-Left relayed that an editorial on the “rightwing” TV Republika webzine described the crisis as a “test of loyalty” for Polish Jews. Oy vey, antisemitism, again. What such agitprop always manages to omit is the telling detail. The telling detail of TV Republika is that it was founded by a patriotic Polish Jew and important journalist, Bronisław Wildstein. Wildstein is one of the most outspoken foes of the kind of Sorosesque Jews, and Poles too, who dig under his country with their “diversity,” “antisemitism,” and “refugees” backhoe.

Just to make sure we get how much Jews in Poland have to fear today, the lefty Brit juggernaut graced its article with a photograph entitled, “A crowd surround a dead man on the street in the Warsaw ghetto around 1940.” The crowd is mostly well-fed and decently dressed; none show much concern for the dead man, and some are smiling to the camera. Those nasty, cruel Poles. The only thing missing is a caveat that Poles had no entry to the ghetto; everyone in the photo is a Jew.

I will not go here into the worn-out story of Yad Vashem’s “Righteous Gentiles” and its 6,706-strong undercount of Poles who risked their lives to save Jews. But let me quote a bigger authority than Yad Vashem: my mom.

Part 2: The History

My mother, a bearer of both Polish and Jewish genes, saw her parents hauled off to no-return Majdanek and her brother shot point blank by a German SS-man during a Sunday promenade with her in a center-city square. She lost a cousin to the NKVD in the Katyn forest, and what would have been her future mother-in-law to the OUN Ukrainian Nazi allies. She was one of the few survivors of the Janowski death/labor camp and would be state’s witness against its commandant/sadist-from-hell. She jumped from a death train going straight to the gas chambers of Belzec. She heard the train engine’s Polish crew risking their lives to warn the still-hopeful crowd at the platform in Lvov that Belzec was not just another “concentration camp.” She then wandered, expiring, through the endless frozen forest until saved first by a Polish peasant and then by a German colonel. She endured prolonged interrogations, beatings and weeks of dungeon imprisonment first by the Gestapo and, a year later, the NKVD. And a sexual assault — exactly what kind she could not bring herself to tell — by a Soviet Army cavalry squad of “Asian-looking” soldiers whose odor would wake her up in the middle of the night, even 50 years later.

That’s what I call “seen it all”: a double Holocaust. And she told all and sundry, whenever the occasion arose: “If it weren’t for the Poles, not a single Jew would have survived in Poland.” About 100,000 survived, hiding among the Poles. There must have been many more “righteous” among the latter than Yad Vashem’s 6,706.

It is generally ignored, despite the mountains of documentary evidence, just what sort of hell the German occupiers imposed on Poland. In that kind of environment, the worst human elements emerge from the dark corners where they lurk in normal times. That goes both for the perpetrators –- to look at portraits of dozens of the worst Nazi executioners like Oskar Dirlewanger or Heinrich Müller is to see pure evil -– and the victim populations.

The Poles who snitched on Jews or killed or robbed them did not do so because they were Poles but because they were criminal, base or cowardly. And some, we have no means of knowing how many, also because they hated Jews. Just as we have no means of knowing how many Poles Jewish commissars in the Commie secret police -– people like Salomon Morel, Julia Brystygier or Izaak Fleischfarb — tortured to death because they hated ethnic Poles, how many because they hated anti-communists, and how many because they were conscience-less opportunists.

Symmetrically, some Holocaust deniers adduce Jewish ghetto police, kapos, snitches, brutalizers and exploiters of wartime Jews as evidence that Jews are themselves complicit in the Holocaust. But no; Jews too have their minority of unsavory specimens, and the unalloyed horror of the Holocaust allowed them to surface.

The tragic history of the “Polish Anna Frank” and her family offers a peek at the reality of those times: ghetto, rescue due to the privileged status of an uncle in the Judenrat, rescue again by a noble German officer, rescue again by multiple Poles in two cities, and a tragic end at German hands because of an anonymous snitch.

To smear the Polish nation as a whole with the broad brush dipped in the worst of its worst is no better than talk of “Jewish usury,” “Jewish perfidy,” “Jewish bankers” or “Jewish bolshevism.” But there is more.

For the nearly hundred years between 1850 and 1945 and to a lesser degree up to now, antisemitism in the eastern third of Europe, including Poland, has been deeper and more paranoid than in the West, excepting the anomalies of the Third Reich and, now, the Muslim component of Eurabia. There are multiple causes, some quite bilateral, others inherent in the tragic fallacy of multiculturalism. Both sides tell only their convenient parts of the truth, and it’s all too much to discuss here. But it’s strange and unwarranted that all this Israeli and Jewish fury is directed toward Poland, and only Poland. Let me explain.

First, it is likely that the entire genus of Ashkenazi Jew would have been extinguished in the German, French and other Black Death and crusades-related pogroms and expulsions of the 13th and 14th centuries, had not the Polish sovereigns Duke Bolesław Pobożny (Bolesław the Pious) and king Kazimierz III Wielki (Casimir III “the Great”) given the fleeing remnant a refuge and royal protection.

Second, Poland was the only country in German-occupied Europe where there was neither a collaborationist government nor volunteers in the Waffen SS or any other unit doing the Germans’ wet work. There were no Polish concentration camps, and no Polish guards in the German concentration camps -– but there were Russian, Ukrainian, Lithuanian, Latvian and other such guards-executioners. My mom saw them “at work.”

There was but one ignoble exception: the “Blue Police.” Subordinated to the German police, it consisted of about 11,000 pre-war Polish policeman who had been called to report to duty by order of Poland’s Nazi ruler, Hans Frank, under penalty of death. While their task was to maintain simple law and order, they did participate in street round-ups and many engaged in extortion, snitching and other vile acts toward Jewish individuals –- but not in the mass killing. And whatever they did, it still pales in comparison to the war-era French, Dutch, Norwegian and other police forces in German-occupied Europe. Moreover, in Poland’s zone occupied by the Soviets in 1939–1941 there was the “Red Police,” composed of Soviet-collaborating Jews, Ukrainians and Belarusians who were doing to Poles what the “Blue Police” was doing to Jews in the German-occupied part.

There were over 400,000 Poles fighting the German occupiers in the largest underground army in Europe, and they executed anyone collaborating with the Germans to the detriment of Poles or Jews. There was the largest in Europe number of gentiles risking their lives to help and shelter Jews in the only country in Europe where the penalty for doing so was death to the protector and his entire family. And there was the largest army-in-exile fighting Hitler too: 250,000 men under British command, unable to help their ravaged homeland but instrumental in many decisive battles on the Western front.

The only semi-balanced article I have seen by an Israeli author in the Israeli press about the Holocaust libel law, Seth Frantzman’s “Setting history straight – Poland resisted Nazis,” (Jerusalem Post, January 29, 2018) contains this sentence about the Polish resistance: “A few posters being put up and torn down pales in comparison to millions of Jews sent to death camps.”

It was quite a bit more than “a few posters being put up and torn down.”

The horror, death, enslavement and wholesale destruction of Poland: its people murdered by the millions, its culture, its entire infrastructure, schools, hospitals and its capital all in ruins, was much greater than Israelis and Jews at large seem interested to learn about. 1.4 million Poles were hauled from their homes and forced to work as slaves in German factories and fields, not counting 300,000 military prisoners who were so forced also. Between 35,000 and 50,000 Polish women were snatched off the streets and forced to provide “services” in German military brothels. A quarter million boys were kidnapped from their mothers and brought to Germany to be shaped into future Aryan SS-men, with the laggards exterminated by phenol injections and gruesome medical experiments.

The number of ethnic Poles murdered by the Germans was not “at least 1.9 million” as Frantzman’s article states, but 2.77 million, i.e. almost equivalent to the 2.7 to 2.9 number of murdered Polish Jews. And that does not include the 150,000 Poles murdered by the Soviets with significant collaboration of Polish Jews in the years 1939–1941 and 1944–1945 [figures from Polish Institute of National Remembrance (IPN), 2009]. Moreover, much of that mass murder was a targeted “decapitation,” pursued by Germans and Soviets in their respective occupation zones, to wipe out Poland’s administrative, intellectual, scientific, spiritual, law and military elites, before more “culling” and then the formal enslavement of the remaining population. [See a compact, referenced account of these crimes]

There is hardly a Polish family that did not suffer murder at the hands of Germans, whether in arbitrary retail or planned wholesale, hauling to concentration camps or Gestapo abattoirs, brutal impression into slave labor or expropriation and exile far away from family home and land. Frequently, all of the above. The physical damage to Poland at German hands, alone, stands at $850 billion–$1 trillion in 2018 dollars. Germany has not paid reparations even for that, though between 1952 and 2017 it paid so many billions in Deutsche marks and euros in so many reparations agreements with the State of Israel and Jewish Holocaust survivors, with additional agreements pending, that a non-specialist has no way to add it all up.

And third: as opposed to this fixation on Poland, this hateful, worldwide baying from all quarters of Israeli and Jewish society, one does not hear much about their outrage concerning present veneration of many Nazi-collaborators and direct perpetrators of persecutions, round-ups and mass murder of Jews in countries like Croatia, Hungary, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia, Ukraine and others.

How many Israeli politicians and media mavens commented on the giant portraits of Nazi allies and Jews’ (and Poles’) mass murderers Stepan Bandera, Roman Shukhevych and Yevhen Konovalets, borne by adoring crowds of the “Maidan revolution” in Lvov and Kiev, said “maidan” enjoying the enthusiastic support of at least two Jewish-Ukrainian oligarchs with Israeli citizenship?

I am yet to hear about Israel government’s condemnation of Croatian mass celebrations of Ante Pavelic and the Croatian Ustasha who made of the Jasenovac concentration camp what Israelis call gehenom and Poles call gehenna, more macabre than the Germans’ worst.

There is no American Jewish Committee thunder about the Jobbik party in Hungary, that country’s third largest with 20.5% of the votes in the 2014 National Assembly elections, openly fascist and as ravingly Jew-hating as to, among others, wade on the parliament’s floor in 2012 into advocacy for the Tiszaeszlár blood libel and its notorious trial that already in 1883 had been dismissed by Hungarian judges as prosecutorial fraud.

No coordinated storm of outrage in Israeli and Jewish media at Lithuania. No Jan T. Gross bestsellers about the massive Lithuanian collaboration in the corralling and delivery of Jews to their executioners, and volunteering to Waffen SS and to guard units at German concentration camps. And now, some of the chief criminals, e.g. Jonas Noreika, are honored with public plaques, and the head of Lithuania’s collaborationist government Juozas Ambrazevičius, who, per Efraim Zuroff of the Simon Wiesenthal Center “collaborated with the Nazis” in the mass murder of Jews and “actively encouraged” Lithuanian participation in it, gets an official state burial with full honors, in 2012.

Kaunas, where that solemn funeral took place, was the locus of the Lithuanian Holocaust. Thousands of Jews were murdered there by Lithuanian militias before the arrival of the German army. It was here where Seventh Fort was constructed, the first and Jews-only concentration camp in German-occupied territories, staffed by Lithuanians, the chief task of their Tautinio Darbo Apsaugos Batalionas being the murder of the Jews of Kaunas and elsewhere in Lithuania and Belarus.

With all that, a public Israeli/Jewish storm about a Polish law demanding to put the Holocaust on the doorstep of the country whose government and people carried it out, Germany? Why, one may start noticing the grumbling by some Poles that this is all about money. Applying the vise of media-manipulated public opinion and the U.S. Congress as well as the British Parliament to gain an advantage in negotiations with Poland’s government about “restitution” for any and all unspecifiable assets that had no heirs after their Jewish owners were murdered in the Holocaust.

Which would be quite a unique arrangement, given that Poland bears no responsibility for the German murder and expropriation of the original owners, and the American Jewish and Israeli organizations that would collect the loot in 2018 have no evidence of title and are, in any case, not successors in title to the heirless and intestate Jewish citizens of Poland who perished at the hand of Germans under German occupation between 1939 and 1945.

Moreover, Poland has already provided restitutions under treaties with multiple countries for all legitimate property claims in Poland. Further claims may be pursued in Poland by the usual judicial means. Lastly, pursuant to a Polish law in 1997, Jewish organizations in Poland received restitution for over 2,500 German-expropriated or destroyed communal properties such as synagogues, cemeteries and cultural centers.

All this notwithstanding, there is quite a lot one can achieve by orchestrating an international storm about “Polish murderers of Jews,” some sleight of hand with history and, astonishingly, recruiting the United States Congress and the British Parliament to do your bidding. And that recruitment appeared in March to have resulted in American heavy-handedness exceeding perhaps any comparable precedent.

On March 6, Politico (Europe) revealed the existence of a recent memo from the U.S. State Department declaring the new Polish law as an unacceptable violation of freedom of speech. The memo gave the Polish government a three-point ultimatum: either “resolve” this issue –- needless to say to America’s and international Jewry’s satisfaction — or else Poland’s leaders will be barred from White House meetings, U.S. Congress will block funds for joint military projects in Poland including the stationing of U.S. troops there within the NATO framework, and there will be further “dramatic” consequences in case an American citizen is charged under the new law.

Michael Brendan Dougherty asked on the pages of National Review, “Is NATO in Poland to Deter Russians or Poles?” Indeed.

Leaving aside what you get for “blasphemy” in Dar al-Islam, in Thailand, insulting the king will get you a prison sentence for 3 to 70 years. In Great Britain, a tweet expressing your dissatisfaction with the Pakistanization of British demographics or the Islamization of its culture will gain you a police knock on the door at 3 a.m., next morning, while if your child niece was “groomed” by a gang of “Asians” for 15 years, law enforcement for that entire period would have been in a state of catatonic hypersomnia. In Germany, a former Stasi agent, Anetta Kahane, has been chosen by no less than Justice Minister Heiko Maas to oversee the German Internet, remove “hate speech,” and prosecute its authors.

In Sweden, opposition to “immigration” in conversation or a social media post will get you a criminal hacking and “outing” by the far-left Expressen newspaper, including your photo, legal name, email and physical address, so that fascist Antifa thugs may better find you. And also, for your employer, neighbors, fiancée and family to know exactly what a racist Nazi you are, and do what’s right. In the United States, criticism of “people of color” or honest talk about racial or gender differences will bring on an automatic termination of your job, livelihood, and lifetime career too.

The United States has willed itself to blindness in all these egregious instances, but it bullies and blackmails Poland under the pretext of “freedom of expression” because Poland no longer wishes to be libeled as the perpetrator of the Holocaust. Who in the Trump administration put this sorry farce in motion?

Part 3: Before we talk

There is nothing in the new Polish “Holocaust libel law” that prohibits or penalizes talk about malfeasance by Poles toward Jews during the Holocaust or at any other time. It pertains only to blaming the Polish nation for the Holocaust and whitewashing German responsibility for it. By all means, let such talk flourish, as well as talk about the Poles who saved Jews from murder. But let it be a conversation, not a monologue.

Let us also talk about the persecution and murder of Poles by Jews, and following that, the persecution and murder of Russians and Hungarians — all in varying intensity throughout the first 55 years of the 20th century. Certainly not all Jews were involved in communist mischief, but chief founders of the respective Communist parties and executors of communist terror and mayhem were either in their majority (Hungary, particularly in 1919, ditto Germany) or astonishing plurality (USSR in 1917-1935) and Poland (1918-1920, 1939–1941, 1944-1956), Jewish.

I cannot conclude without revisiting at least one of the latest compliments paid especially by American Jews to the land neither they nor their immigrant ancestors who had lived in Poland for 600 years, mostly as an alien and alienated colony, have had the slightest true interest in.

Making sure to first flash some creds in Western culture by citing Voltaire and later Santayana, Rabbi Menachem Levine declared on the pages of the Washington Times (February 20, 2018) that “Poland’s new Holocaust law is yet another pack of tricks played upon the millions of murdered Jews in the Holocaust.” Citing his other creds as a “grandchild of four Polish Holocaust survivors” (I am the grandchild of none), Levine calls that law “a disgrace and a mockery.”

While injecting the cliché about “6,700 Poles recognized by the Yad Vashem,” Levine proceeds to iterate all the arguments how it was the Poles who “made the Holocaust possible,” including “passively observing” and “enthusiastically supporting,” and why all that happened in Poland, which “both allowed and assisted in the Holocaust.” All that under a picture of the Polish flag with the Nazi hakenkreuz imposed upon it –- removed hastily from the original article (bad for business etc.) but preserved in Polish media, e.g. here.

I hereby sentence the good rabbi to compulsory participation in a four-day seminar that I will hold in the Church of the Good Shepherd Yeshua in Freedomia as a preamble to the truthful dialogue about who murdered whom in Poland. As a condition of attendance, class, please take down these names and prepare to know something about them when we meet on the first day:

  • Jakub Berman
  • Hilary Minc
  • Roman Romkowski (aka Natan Grünspan)
  • Anatol Fejgin
  • Józef Światło (aka Izaak Fleischfarb, aka “The Butcher”)
  • Jacek Różański (aka Josek Goldberg)
  • Antoni Alster (aka Nachum Alster),
  • Helena Chaja Altenberg
  • Leon Andrzejewski (aka Lejb-Wolf Ajzen)
  • Gustaw Auscaler (escaped to Israel)
  • Zygmunt Braude
  • Mieczysław Broniatowski
  • Julia Brystygier (aka Julia Prajs, aka “Bloody Luna”)
  • Józef Czaplicki (aka Izydor Kurc)
  • Berek Eisenstein
  • Marek Fink
  • Stefan Finkel
  • Alicja Graff
  • Kazimierz Graff
  • Mieczysław (Szmul) Gross
  • Maria Gurowska (aka Maria Zand)
  • Wiktor Herer
  • Adam Humer
  • Edward Kalecki
  • Pauline Kern
  • Józef Jurkowski, (aka Josek Jungman, escaped to Denmark)
  • Wacław Komar (aka Mendel Kossoj)
  • Julian Konar
  • Józef Kratko
  • Ajzer Mąka
  • Pinek Mąka
  • Emil Merz
  • Stefan Michnik (aka Stefan Szechter, escaped to Sweden)
  • Mieczyslaw Mietkowski (aka Mojzesz Bobrowicki)
  • Salomon Morel (escaped to Israel)
  • Zygmunt Okręt
  • Bronisław (Boruch) Nechamkis
  • Henryk Piasecki, (aka Izrael Chaim Pesses)
  • Lola Potok
  • Leon Rubinsztein
  • Maksymilian Schnepf (aka Maksymilian Sznepf)
  • Shlomo Singer
  • Michał (Mojżesz) Taboryski
  • Benjamin Wajsblech
  • Aleksander Warecki (aka Aleksander Warenhaupt)
  • Zygmunt Wizelberg
  • Helena Wolińska (aka Fajga Mindla Danielak, aka Helena Brus, escaped to England)

These are 47 names of Jews who ran the Communist terror machine in Poland in the years 1944- 1955, most of them in military uniforms and with close links to the Soviet NKVD. Some were secret police officers, interrogators and torturers, some were concentration camp and prison commandants, some military judges and prosecutors, and others ideologues constructing the rationale for communist terror. And two, Jakub Berman and Hilary Minc, were two thirds of the triumvirate of hardline Stalinists that ruled Poland with an iron fist on behalf of Uncle Joe.

A specialist historian could come up with many more names and instances of Jewish executors of this terror, but I am just a non-specialized writer, albeit with a broad academic background devoid of a pre-programmed agenda. And this is difficult territory to navigate, requiring scrupulous research free of both politically correct inhibitions and antisemitic confirmation bias.

What’s important to keep in mind is that these names stand for a group that constituted over 37% of just the security terror apparatus when Poland’s Jewish minority, after emigration of some, numbered at most 100,000 — about 0.4% percent of the Polish population reduced from 35 million in 1938 to 23.6 million in 1946.

It will take you some weeks to research these names, but without that you have no business trying to form an opinion about any aspect of Polish-Jewish relations in the post-war era. You will find referenced Wikipedia entries about the more prominent names. There is some relevant literatures in English, e.g. Marek Jan Chodakiewicz’s The Dialectics of Pain: The Interrogation Methods of the Communist Secret Police in Poland, 1944-1955 and John Sack’s An Eye for an Eye, though the latter presents the dozens of post-war Polish communist concentration camps run by Jews as pertaining only to German inmates, though there were many prisoners from the Polish anti-communist, anti-German underground, and from the Polish Silesian minority as well. If there is a single brief Polish online text you should struggle with, it’s Faces of Security Services in the Polish People’s Republic in the years 1944 – 1956 (translated title), with photos.

Part 2 of the seminar is called “The impact of Polish Jews’ collaboration and participation in the Bolshevik invasion of 1919–1920 and the Soviet invasion and genocide in Poland, 1939–1941.” Note that Jedwabne was in the zone of the latter invasion. In preparation, please research the name Jan Karski. Go to the Hoover Institution Archives website, Jan Karski web page, click on “Mission,” click on “Karski’s Reports.” Click on the tag “Jewish Questions at Home” .” Read the report. It’s heartbreaking but our focus here will be on pages 6 and 7. The report is in Polish, but your interest in this field is insincere unless you learn to read Polish. A further bibliographical list will be distributed in class.

Part 3 is called “The shoe on the other foot -– Jewish rescuers of anti-communist Poles during their intensive 1945-1955 persecutions and murders by the Soviet-Polish-Jewish Communist authorities.” Your lecturer’s page is blank on this, so the roles will be reversed. You will research the subject independently and will present your findings in class.

The seminar will conclude with a lecture entitled “If you embrace, you are embraced.” Contrary to the massive international propaganda image of Jews and Poles as mutually exclusive, hostile camps, with the former a victim of genocide by the latter, we will discuss Jews who, as Polish patriots, fought in the front lines of military and cultural battles for Poland, and are to this day honored in that country. They were a minority among the Jews, but it’s obvious that they had good reasons to love Poland and die for it, too.

There are too many on the cultural front to mention here, but as far as military matters go, among several others we will discuss Berek Joselewicz, a colonel and commander of an all-Jewish light horse regiment of the Polish insurrection army during the Kościuszko Uprising, later in other Polish formations in the Napoleonic wars; Major Bernard Mond, an infantry battalion commander during the 1919-1920 war against the Bolshevik invasion army and by 1939 the commanding general of the Polish 6th Infantry Division; and Countess Krystyna Skarbek, Winston Churchill’s and Ian Fleming’s favorite special-ops spy.

Among other markers will be the 650 Jewish volunteers in the Polish Legion fighting for Polish independence during World War 1, Polish towns where the Jewish communities allied with their Polish neighbors against the 1919-1920 Bolshevik invasion in opposition to those Jewish communities that supported it, several hundred Jews fighting in the Polish nationalist underground army during World War 2 (by 2001, about 250 had been identified by name), in addition to the estimated 100 thousand who had been drafted into the Polish Army in 1939 and experienced the hard fate of Polish soldiers and officers in the war years.

I first encountered the most horrific of the Jewish names adduced here when playing with my lead soldiers under a table around which the adults were whispering out of the earshot of commie snitches on the other side of the wall. The adults were ethnic Poles, Polish Jews, and my parents, who were a mixture of both. All survivors of their respective Holocausts, and all friends.

This collective hunt that the world’s Jewry has been pursuing against Poland and the Polish people unrelentingly for the last 20 years, with the United States Congress and the British Parliament acting as beaters of the prey, is a disgrace. Combined with continuous attempts to squeeze property and billions of dollars from a country attempting to stand on its feet after 500 years of fighting off invaders from east and west, then sacrificing its treasure and many of its best men to save the West at the gates of Vienna in 1683, followed a few decades later by 146 years of the triple yoke of Russian, Prussian and Austrian occupation, followed by just 20 years of independence started with a desperate two-year war that stopped the Bolshevik invasion of Europe, followed by the hell of almost 6 years of German occupation, followed by betrayal by the Allies and the looting and squashing of the Poles for 45 more years of Soviet occupation, followed as of 1989 by the looting of Poland’s industry, commerce, agriculture and natural resources via the harmful premises of Jeffrey Sachs/George Soros economics, followed, since November 2015, by a relentless assault from the Union of European Multiculti Socialists (EU) and its worldwide amen lobby — why, that’s more than a disgrace.

I will leave the choice of the descriptive word to you.

 
• Category: Foreign Policy, History • Tags: Holocaust, Israel, Jews, Poland, World War II 
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  1. There are other historical complications, mentioned in my blog:

    Jun 6, 2016 – Appeasing Poland

    We all know the evil Nazi’s invaded Czechoslovakia, but no one mentions that Poland grabbed a chunk first. After a threatening ultimatum from Warsaw on September 27, 1938, Czechoslovakia ceded to Poland the district of Tesin (Teschen) an area of some 625 square miles with a population of 230,000 people.

    And when Germany and the Soviet Union invaded Poland a year later, why didn’t the British and French declare war on the Soviet Union too? History is far more complex and interesting than the boring comic books we read in American educational institutions.

  2. This short video goes into quite a bit of detail of the toxic influence Jews had in Poland (and elsewhere)

  3. Since this topic is about Poland and World War II, allow me to toss this grenade in the discussion:

    Oct 13, 2010 – Was Churchill Worse than Hitler?

    I just finished Pat Buchanan’s new book: “Churchill, Hitler, and the Unnecessary War”. Good read. All our official history is government propaganda. Sane people agree that America’s entry into World War I was a horrible mistake. The war was a stalemate by 1916 and the cause of the war were ill thought alliances, so a truce would have resulted. Instead, American intervention encouraged two more years of senseless fighting that nearly destroyed the major European powers. As a result, the communists took power in Russia and the punitive Armistice was a disaster that resulted in World War II.

    Buchanan asserts that World War II was a mistake as well. Hitler was a bad guy, but desired an empire to the East, and the evil Soviet Union was his target. He never wanted war with the West, and admired Great Britain. Buchanan exposes Winston Churchill as a crazed warmonger who destroyed the British Empire by pushing it into World War I and World War II. In 1938, Poland’s dictator joined Germany and Hungary in gobbling up the post World War I British creation of Czechoslovakia. Hitler then courted Poland as an ally against Stalin.

    But Poland’s dictator was arrogant, insulted Hitler, and refused to discuss a Danzig rail corridor to East Prussia, which other nations thought a reasonable demand. After Hitler moved troops to threaten Poland, the British prime minister made a rash decision to declare Poland an ally. This made Poland’s dictator confident so he refused any talks with Hitler, who invaded and crushed Poland. Hitler hoped that Britain and France were bluffing about war, and forbade anything but defensive combat on the French frontier, but changed his mind after Anglo-French aggressions. One can only guess how things may have turned out if the British had not foolishly promised to back Poland. Although World War II was “won”, it killed tens of millions of people, destroyed much of Europe, and left half of Europe under communist tyranny.

    Pat Buchanan deserves great credit for discussing the real history of the “Good War”. This contrasts with Tom Brokaw’s simplistic 1998 “The Greatest Generation”, from which he pocketed millions of dollars for writing a propaganda tale that implies the greatest achievement of our nation is fighting wars. World War II combat veteran Paul Fussell wrote several honest (and unpopular) books about war. He noted that only one million Americans volunteered for World War II, mostly because they needed jobs during the economic depression. The other 11 million were drafted and spent the war disgruntled and scheming for a discharge. Only later did they recall their unselfish crusade for freedom.

  4. snag says:
    @Carlton Meyer

    Concentrate and try to stay on the subject – In regard to Polish–Czechoslovak border conflicts it wouldn’t hurt to refuel your tank with a ‘knowledge’ up there with facts instead rehashing this crap whenever and wherever you can ,…

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Czechoslovak_border_conflicts

    In Polish

    https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polsko-czechos%C5%82owackie_konflikty_graniczne

    • Replies: @Beckow
    , @aandrews
    , @Gleongelpi
  5. And we know, presumably, that this term has been used in German national and provincial media

    How do you know that? Are there studies documenting this is a widespread term in German media? Because I can’t recall ever having read it, certainly not in the sense that it was claimed the extermination camps were somehow under Polish control. If the term is used at all, in most cases it will be due to thoughtlessness, not deliberate obfuscation, and merely in a geographical sense.
    Granted, the Our mothers, our fathers tv series was pretty questionable in some parts and Polish protests were justifed. But there is no organized German campaign to shift responsibility for the Holocaust onto Poland. This exists only in the imagination of Polish right-wingers.

    Germany has not paid reparations even for that, though between 1952 and 2017 it paid so many billions in Deutsche marks and euros in so many reparations agreements with the State of Israel and Jewish Holocaust survivors,

    Yes, but Israel didn’t get one quarter of pre-war German territory, plus the satisfaction of taking revenge by ethnically cleansing a few million Germans. Bit one-sided to leave this “detail” unmentioned.

    • Agree: AndrewR
  6. The sudden backlash, especially from Israel, was a surprise because the Israeli ambassador, Anna Azari, or her Deputy, had been meeting with the Poles for more than a year, without objection, observing the development of the bill.

    It’s crucial to note that the new law proscribes accusations against “the Polish nation or the Polish state” as such, and at that level only.

    Wikipedia has a worthwhile treatment: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_on_the_Institute_of_National_Remembrance

    The proposed law modifies a previous law relating to the Institute of National Remembrance (namely, the Act of 18 December 1998 on the – Commission for the Prosecution of Crimes against the Polish Nation (Dz.U. 1998 nr 155 poz. 1016)).

    Article 55a:
    1. [Anyone] who, in public and against the facts, ascribes to the Polish Nation or to the Polish State, responsibility or co-responsibility for Nazi crimes committed by the Third Reich, [as] defined in Article 6 of the Charter of the International Military Tribunal, Annex to the Agreement for the prosecution and punishment of the major war criminals of the European Axis, signed in London on August 8, 1945 [...], or for other offences which are crimes against peace [or] humanity or [that are] war crimes, or who otherwise grossly reduces the responsibility of the actual perpetrators of said crimes, is subject to a fine or [to] imprisonment for up to 3 years. The judgment shall be made public.

    2. If a perpetrator of the act referred to in paragraph 1 has acted unintentionally, [such person] shall be subject to a fine or community sentence [(pl)].

    3. No offense referred to in paragraphs 1 and 2 shall have been committed if the act was performed as part of artistic or scholarly activity.

  7. Hmmmm . . .,

    I think the Armenians had better jump in on this.

  8. Wally says: • Website

    One of longest ’6M Jews’ pieces of propaganda ever presented on http://www.unz.com
    No proof is presented whatsoever.

    Max Denken tries to slide by the utterly impossible ‘holocaust’ fantasy under the guise of Poles & Jews arguing over bragging rights is truly hilarious. A great example of GIGO: ‘garbage in, garbage out.

    Oh! What A Tangled Web We Weave When First We Practice To Deceive

    See Max Denken & his easily debunked ‘holocau$t’ nonsense further debunked in this thread:

    http://www.unz.com/freed/the-future-of-the-jews/

    We’re talking about an alleged ’6M Jews & 5M others’ … 11,000,000.
    There is not a single verifiable excavated enormous mass grave with contents actually SHOWN, not just claimed, (recall the claim of 900,000 buried at Treblinka, 1,250,000 at Auschwitz, or 250,000 at Sobibor, 34,000 at Babi Yar) even though Jews claim they still exist and claim to know exactly where these alleged enormous mass graves are.

    Only lies require censorship and jail terms for free speech & Thought Crimes.

    Wise up & see the ‘holocaust’ scam easily & thoroughly debunked here: http://codoh.com
    Join in, No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

    • Replies: @polskijoe
  9. I musty have had some great history instructors and read some fi8nme texts, becauyse when i here the term

    “Polish Concentration Camps”

    I immediately understood that it was not a Polish endeavour, whatever the machinations between Polish Catholics, atheists, Baptists . . . etc and Polish Jews.

    I had always taken the reality as a given. The same would apply to Czechoslovakian Concentration Camps, during WWII were a German invention and application.

    I never knew there was much in the way of not “metoo” on the matter.

    • Replies: @snag
  10. Gret says:

    Nice write-up, but it will take time to at least make the views more moderate. The dislike for Poland from the West and Jews comes from a spontaneous thinking, characteristic for humans, that is attributing bad traits to poor and peripheral countries

    Eastern Europe is poorer, less important and prestigious = Eastern Europe is violent, stupid, vulgar, lazy, ugly. This is how everybody thinks also of Africa, Latin America or american “rednecks”. While prestigious and important countries are intelligent, insightful, sophisticated

    Anyway, relations between Poland and Middle East are illusory and mostly courteous. Whether Israel likes or dislikes Poland matters very little. What I find pathetic is the expansiveness that polish politicans offer for the Jews. Jews have reacted very harshly and polish politicians use this effusive language

    This is why in politics you should think twice before you use effusive language, because then it’s intellectually and emotionally harder to deal with surprises and setbacks

  11. Good balanced article (except for the usual cult-marxist nonsence about the MSM…as if some bilge about diversity, homosexuals, whatever makes such “organs” as the WP or NYT ” left’: 40 years spruiking neoliberalism and neoconservativism does NOT “left” make.
    I’m happy to discuss “the holocaust”. When Jews are mentioned, I ask “and”?. I’m looking for these terms: Gypsy, socialist, Jehovah’s Witness, communist, Slav, and so on.
    Jews/Israel have been running to the holocaust well over 70 years now, and its starting to run DRY.

    • Replies: @Paw
  12. WHAT says:
    @Carlton Meyer

    Maybe you should read “Sleepwalkers” by Christopher Clark instead. It actually explains british strategic imperative and why WWI and WWII, as well as preceding Mitteleuropa wars were inevitable.

  13. What Poland done is to open the Pandora Box, which Netanyahu nor any Jews is able to close. History is now open for debate…..

    • Replies: @annamaria
    , @Art
  14. What a long article for a simple matter.

    Auschwitz was where it was because there was abundant water and coal there, from which synthetic rubber, Buna, was made, high octane airplane fuel and lubrication oil.
    The USA also used the Buna process, as the USA was cut off from all natural rubber, without this IG Farben process it is difficult to see how the uSA could have waged war.
    Even Ben Gurion at the end of 1944 saw Auschwitz as work camps.

    The abundant water makes impossible the stories about huge pits in which bodies were burned, and babies thrown in alive.
    The water level was close under the surface.

    That Poles did not like their jews can be read in many books.
    Gross describes a massacre, I have little reason to doubt it.
    Lithuanians killed their jews in the woods before the Germans were there.
    How many jews Poles and Lithuanians killed, w’ll never know.
    Even in 1967 Poland allowed the jews to go, Gross was one of them who went.
    From various sources my impression is that the hatred of jews found its origin in that jews controlled the economy.

    Bogdan Musial, ´Sowjetische Partisanen 1941 – 1944, Mythos und Wirklichkeit’, Paderborn 2009
    How jews were not admitted into resistance groups.

    Anne Applebaum, ‘Between East and West, Across the borderlands of Europe’, Londen, 1995
    ‘Hitler did horrible things, but he liberated us from the jews’.

    Lonely Planet Guide ‘Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania’, Nicola Williams, Debra Herrmann, Cathryn Kemp, 2003, Victoria, Australia.
    Resistance in Lithuania against restauration of the ghetto, with UN money, in parliament something was said as ‘must the Lithuanians again become the slaves of the jews’

    Dan Jacobson, ‘Heshels Rijk Familiekroniek’, Amsterdam 1998
    The killings of jews by Lithuanians

    Christopher R. Browning, ‘Ordinary Men, Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland’, 1992, 2001, London
    Pictures of jews beaten to death in Kaunas, Lithuania

    Jan T. Gross, ‘Neighbours, The Destruction of the Jewish Community in Jedwabne, Poland, 1941’, 2003, London

    About the present controversy Israel Poland, Poland has become more or less wealthy, and is a EU member, another source of money for Israel, in my opinion.

    • Replies: @RobinG
    , @snag
  15. @Carlton Meyer

    Hitler a bad guy, not in the eyes of Germans interviewed in the eighties, who voted for Hitler in the thirties, 1938 was the happiest year in their life.

    Kai S. Schreyber (Hrsg.), ´Warum wir ADOLF HITLER wählten, Jungwähler von 1933/38 berichten’, 2001 Kiel

  16. Wally says:

    Denken absurdly cites Jan Karski, truly nutter stuff.
    now see:
    A Fake Eyewitness to Mass Murder at Belzec
    By Theodore J. O’Keefe, https://codoh.com/library/document/398/?lang=en
    and:
    ‘the preposterous Jan Karski, a review of his claims’:

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10078&p=85168

    excerpt:
    Karski claims:
    - the Germans used quicklime for mass extermination of Jews
    - trains full of Jews quivered and twitched, their flesh throbbed
    - but he then admitted he had no proof

    more here:

    http://www.cwporter.com/karski.htm

    and much more:

    https://codoh.com/search/?sorting=relevance&q=jan+karski

    “Alone the fact that one may not question the Jewish “holocaust” and that Jewish pressure has inflicted laws on democratic societies to prevent questions—while incessant promotion and indoctrination of the same averredly incontestable ‘holocaust’ occur—gives the game away. It proves that it must be a lie. Why else would one not be allowed to question it? Because it might offend the “survivors”? Because it “dishonors the dead”? Hardly sufficient reason to outlaw discussion. No, because the exposure of this leading lie might precipitate questions about so many other lies and cause the whole ramshackle fabrication to crumble.”
    - Gerard Menuhin / righteous Revisionist Jew, son of famous violinist

    Just like the ‘truth & fact’ of witchcraft, the ‘holocaust’ scam is just not that difficult to debunk.
    Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the laughable ‘holocaust’ storyline is the message.
    http://www.codoh.com

  17. @Carlton Meyer

    Fritz Peter Habel, ´Die Sudeten-Deutschen’, 1992, 2002, München

    There is no doubt that the Tsjechs discriminated the Germans in Sudetenland, then Chechoslovakia.
    This even was the conclusion of a British diplomat, send by London to investigate, around 1938.
    As to the German occupation, Hitler feared Russian bombers, that could easily destroy the Ruhr industries from Tsjech airports.

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
    , @Paw
  18. @Carlton Meyer

    “After Hitler moved troops to threaten Poland, the British prime minister made a rash decision to declare Poland an ally. ”
    There’s nothing I really disagree with in your comment, per se.
    But, i ‘d like to add one point. British strategy had been the same for many years” NO single power, such as France or Spain should control the Continent. So what to do about Germany AND the USSR ? In 1938/9 which appeared the most expansionist ? Which the greater IMMEDIATE threat ? Unencumbered by a Western threat how much power would Germany accumulate moving East ?
    Pick your devil…

    • Replies: @WHAT
  19. @Carlton Meyer

    ” But Poland’s dictator was arrogant, insulted Hitler, and refused to discuss a Danzig rail corridor to East Prussia, which other nations thought a reasonable demand. ”

    A bit more complicated, Poland feared another split if it remained neutral.
    The British guarantee brought it on the British side.
    But rumour is that even FDR gave a guarantee in August 1939.
    If any country was betrayed by GB and FDR it was Poland.

    Simon Newman, ´March 1939, The British guarantee to Poland, A study in the continuity of British Foreign Policy’, 1976, Oxford

    Comte Jean Szembek, Ancien sous-secrétaire d’État aux Affaires étrangères de Pologne, ‘Journal, 1933 – 1939’, Paris 1952

    Jan Ciechanowski, vormals polnischer Botschafter in den Vereinigten Staaten, ´Vergeblicher Sieg’, Zürich 1948 ( Defeat in Victory, New York, 1947)

    David Irving, ‘Accident – The death of General Sikorsky’, 1979, München (German translation)

  20. @Carlton Meyer

    Historians wonder why Hitler was not attacked in early 1938, when the considerable Tsjech army also still existed.
    The combined military might of Poland, France, GB, Tsjechslovakia might have beaten Germany quickly, if necessary strenghtened by the USSR.
    The only possible explanation they can think of is that FDR wanted a long war, in which the USA would emerge as the winner, global leader at the same time.

  21. utu says:

    Mr. Denken, You have just used up all the ammunition you had by shooting aimlessly. The narrative you are trying to sell is so 20 century. It had some traction in Poland under Soviet umbrella when Poles when paradoxically allowed to entertain nationalistic and patriotic WWII stories about themselves. In which Poles along the Red Army were the bravest and the most noble and obviously they suffered the most and yes, there were also Jews but they were not talked about too much. The fascist Hitlerites were the enemies of the human race and they were the equal opportunity killers. Soviets and not only them did not want to make the WWII story about the Jews. Race and ethnicity did not fit the Marxist Weltanschauung.

    But times have changed and the narrative has shifted. Most of your arguments and numerical data can be undermined so you really do not want to go there. If you and Poland decide to go to fight using this ammunition you are doomed to fail. This is not about the truth anymore. Real bullets or blanks have the same effect. Stop shooting. Nobody really cares about your mother or some Jewish lady in Israel. Besides you are not going to out-whine Jews and out bid them in martyrological olympics. Jews have already won gold, silver and bronze medals in these games. Real man should not want to compete in these olympics anyway.

    Poland has no means to shift the narrative and has no friends to help her in it. Poland is alone. But this is nothing new for Poland. So what can be done? Unfortunately probably nothing with the government Poland has now. But with a truly patriotic government Poland could leverage her desirability to potential suitors.

    First of all military contracts with the US and Israel and future purchases of military equipment should be suspended and supplies should be looked for elsewhere. Instead of F-16 there are Eurofighter and Grippen.

    Next Poland should approach Germany and Russia to let her join the Nord Stream II project and start building a pipeline branch going to one of Polish ports on the Baltic sea.

    And be active in V4 but be more like Czechs or Hungarians because so far you act like American lackey and Czechs and Hungarians are getting irritated with you. Orban has recently expressed impatience that Poland does not want to lead. Be like Czechs who could make American ambassador to shut up and know his place. The same Czechs who you feel so superior to because they did not fight Germans and did not let their Prague to be destroyed as you did with your Warsaw.

    And as far as the WWII and Holocaust Poland can make few preemptive moves. The book by Jan Grabovski of U. of Toronto is about to be published in Poland. It was already widely covered and discussed in Israel. The book claims that Poles are responsible for the death of 200,000 Jews. This is 3.3% of 6 millions. I think Poland should accept this claim without a single objection and offer a pecuniary compensation right away but not to Israel or Jews but to Germany which already has paid for the 6,000,000. It is beneath Israel and Jews to double bill, right?

    Finally you should recapture control over institutions like Jewish Museum in Warsaw and Auschwitz Museum and in the long run hold a plan of closing Auschwitz down and ploughing it over. No more Israeli kids coming for indoctrination to Poland. Let bygones be bygones. And if you care for your Katyn dead so much exhume them and bring them to Poland so you won’t have to go to Russia. Let bygones be bygones.

    • Replies: @Ivan
    , @Wally
  22. sarz says:

    The author certainly has his knickers in a twist. Must be tough to be on this wavelength all the time. I suggest some sessions of psilocybin. It’s a marvel to see a literate, somewhat informed individual, openly subscribing to the Holocaust tale. Maybe something to do with his mother’s claim of being raped. The Holocaust is the industialised murder of millions of Jews through gassing at select murder-factory sites. Or it’s nothing. The mass murder of Jews by shooting in Lithuania is not the Holocaust. If there were a Holocaust that would be a side note. If the author is sincere in his delusion, he should present his views to the skeptic experts at the forum at codoh.com.

  23. utu says:

    The Ruderman Family Foundation film with “Polish Holocaust” meme was a missed opportunity. The meme “Polish Holocaust” is good. Instead of getting upset by it the meme should have been embraced. It is just like Jewish Holocaust. 6 millions Polish citizens lost lives during the WWII. They were Poles, Jews, Lithuanians, Ukrainians, Belorussians and even Germans.

  24. Lex says:
    @Carlton Meyer

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Polish_military_alliance

    mutual assistance in case of military invasion from Germany

    • Replies: @Carlton Meyer
  25. “The United States has willed itself to blindness in all these egregious instances, but it bullies and blackmails Poland under the pretext of “freedom of expression” because Poland no longer wishes to be libeled as the perpetrator of the Holocaust. Who in the Trump administration put this sorry farce in motion?”

    The bullying pre-dates the passage of the Holocaust Bill. Poland is one of a small handful of EU nations not included in the visa-waiver programme. In fact, one of President Trump’s still unfulfilled campaign promises was to remedy that immediately upon taking office.

    One can only wonder, given their geographic location, what level of pressure it will take to push Poland into a hobbesian choice between east and west. I’m surprised Putin isn’t already trying to flip them.

  26. The article is really pretty cringe-inducing, since it is such a confused jumble. I feel like it requires a comment, but to comment on it requires one to disentangle the mess somewhat.

    As I see it, there are basically two categories of confusion here: intellectual and moral.

    Most of the 7500 word article is devoted to pushing a certain very partisan view of the history. Basically, the author tacitly accepts that the victors’ version of WW2 is broadly correct and the endless demonization of Germans is something just. However, when it somehow splashes over and becomes a demonization of the Poles, then it is unjust. This is very confused, both intellectually and morally. Let’s start with the intellectual confusion here…

    First of all, if (as I see it, anyway…) the central issue here is really freedom of speech, then on that level it doesn’t matter so much which version of history is truthful. I can go onto Amazon and buy numerous books that say Abraham Lincoln was a great man. I can also buy other books (less numerous, but there are some) that say that he was a complete scoundrel. Moreover, the respective books will offer very different interpretations of that period of history, i.e. the American Civil war.

    One can know absolutely nothing about the history of that time period, yet still realize, on purely logical grounds, that both sides cannot be right. Moreover, a genuine advocate of free speech will hold that both sides of the debate have the right to put forward their viewpoint.

    This could be expressed more generally: when you have a debate, one side of the debate is affirming X, the other side is saying “not X”. One side must be wrong surely, but that’s not the point. The point is that you cannot prevail in an intellectual debate by illegalizing the other side’s viewpoint! That should be self-evidently unacceptable!

    That is the central issue intellectually. (At least for me…) Now, the other massive hairy problem in all of this is the following:

    Zionist Jews have ZERO moral standing to condemn the Polish law in question.

    Once you accept the idea that one version of history is the correct one and anybody who disputes it is committing a crime, then you’ve opened Pandora’s box and you cannot then complain what comes out of it. The same people lobbying for Holocaust denial laws throughout the West cannot then turn around and complain about this Polish law! This should be a laughing stock!

    So, to me, perhaps the most central thing about this is the utter hypocrisy of the Zionist Jews condemning this law on free speech grounds! I find the whole thing appalling, particularly as somebody of Jewish descent myself. I feel that Jewish ethnics who feel this way (and I know I cannot possibly be the only one) should more openly condemn this kind of blatant attempt to burn the candle on both ends.

    In general, as I have become more educated about certain matters, with a much more nuanced understanding of real history, I have become painfully aware of just how unfair this endless demonizing of the German people with this comic book version of history is. And again, in general, I think that honest, just Jews (there are some…) should more openly condemn this.

    Now, I agree with this Polish nationalist author that the demonization of Poles over period of history is something completely unjust, but his idea that the endless demonization of Germans is fair — this is a very blinkered understanding of the issues. It is utterly confused — as I said, both intellectually and morally. The author really needed to think through all these issues much more rigorously before embarking on such a long-winded essay.

    • Agree: jacques sheete, L.K
    • Replies: @iffen
    , @iffen
  27. Tyrion 2 says:

    Great article. Until the last section. Then again, it is so well-balanced and erudite until that last little bit that I’ll be reading and re-reading it again as you’ve earned that by the rest of your piece.

    I’m a free speech guy but this is nothing but an almost imperceptible blemish on Poland’s remarkably moderate and sensible government. It also barely restricts speech at all. It’s almost akin to having UK-style libel laws.

    Anyway, this pointless tantrum will go away and I look forward to more countries moving back into the Polish, Hungarian, Slovakian, Czech, Italian, Brexit, Trumpian, Israeli, Asian, Latin American and African camp of not buying into open borders extremism.

    Come on Pelosi, Corbyn, Sweden and Germany, your ideas represent a tiny fraction of the world population’s views. You’ve gone rogue. Everyone thinks you’re weird, just not in your tiny bubbles that barely cover 0.1% of the world’s surface. If it weren’t for the wealth and institutional excellence built up by your much more moderate ancestors, you’d be viewed as important as the Branch Davidians or the Shakers or some other group of bizarre self-defeating weirdos. And if you don’t reverse course and tack back very strongly, that is exactly how you and yours will end up. A strange museum anecdote to remind people of what happens to those who purposefully unlearn tbe basic facts of humanity.

  28. Miro23 says:
    @Carlton Meyer

    Buchanan asserts that World War II was a mistake as well. Hitler was a bad guy, but desired an empire to the East, and the evil Soviet Union was his target.

    So that was OK then, nothing to worry about – the Germans only wanted an Eastern Empire stretching to the Urals and the Black Sea. And the Japanese only wanted an Asian Empire (including China) – nothing to worry about there either.

  29. Miro23 says:

    The memo gave the Polish government a three-point ultimatum: either “resolve” this issue –- needless to say to America’s and international Jewry’s satisfaction — or else Poland’s leaders will be barred from White House meetings, U.S. Congress will block funds for joint military projects in Poland including the stationing of U.S. troops there within the NATO framework, and there will be further “dramatic” consequences in case an American citizen is charged under the new law.

    A good opportunity for Poland to finish with the USA. Poland doesn’t have any real “security guarantee” from the US, and any lingering affection for Ronald Reagan among the Poles, is wholly misplaced. The current US administration is just putting Poland in the front line of a fabricated US/Russia conflict – so it’s a good opportunity to remove NATO troops from the country along with their missiles and missile bases.

    Poles, like many other people around the world, have lost contact with the US public, and are realizing that they are dealing instead with the psychotic crowd that cooked up WMD and did 9/11.

    • Replies: @polskijoe
  30. I just finished Pat Buchanan’s new book: “Churchill, Hitler, and the Unnecessary War”. Good read. All our official history is government propaganda.

    The book is definitely worth a read and a good antidote to the Commie and All-lied war propaganda fed to us as history.

    He does pussyfoot around the issue of Jews but that’s understandable considering the times and the likely inability to get it published otherwise.

    For those who are curious but not into reading books, Mr B has several good articles at his website that do a good job of introducing people to the truth.

    This, as well, is an excellent intro to a most critical topic for discussion and was written by a Jewish person who was a true scholar.

    “… this entire myth, so prevalent then and even now about Hitler, and about the Japanese, is a tissue of fallacies from beginning to end. Every plank in this nightmare evidence is either completely untrue or not entirely the truth.
    If people should learn this intellectual fraud about Hitler’s Germany, then they will begin to ask questions, and searching questions…”

    Murray Rothbard, Revisionism for Our Time
    Mr. Rothbard was an American Jew and an historian of the very highest caliber.

    http://mises.org/daily/2592

    What these guys say should be easier to swallow nowadays since we have so many blatant examples of official war mongers, private, commercial and governmental today.

  31. Lex says:
    @German_reader

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/is-new-polish-law-an-attempt-to-whitewash-its-citizens-roles-in-the-holocaust/

    In 1956, a group of former Nazis working as West German intelligence agents coined terminology that arguably became the most viral — and longest lasting — propaganda born out of the former Hitler regime: “Polish death camps.”

    Agency 114, filled with German former members of the Gestapo, SS and SD, was headed by former Nazis Secret Field Police (GFP) sergeant Alfred Benzinger, who is credited with the phrase.

    Benzinger’s goal? To change public discourse and shift the blame for the Holocaust from Germans and Germany to Poland, where most of the Nazi regime’s mass extermination camps were located. And by the time of Benzinger’s propaganda attack, Poland was in the throes of such domestic turmoil that the wordage was hardly a priority.

    • Agree: polskijoe
  32. Lex says:

    Jews were furious that Poland regained independence since they were counting on creating German protectorate of Judeopolonia. Here is how Zionists reacted: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_S._Gibson#The_Jewish_Question

    [MORE]

    Felix Frankfurter (later Associate Justice at the Supreme Court) wrote to Woodrow Wilson (May 22, 1919) that “the Polish Government must be bullied and browbeaten into quitting its policy of extermination and persecution.”

    On 14 June 1919, Gibson was called by Colonel House to a meeting with the fabled justice and his protégé, Felix Frankfurter. Gibson not only was at a disadvantage because of Brandeis’ exalted status but also because his appointment as ambassador to Poland had yet to be confirmed by the United States Senate. In Gibson’s words, the two Zionists opened what the young diplomat later called the ‘prosecution’ by saying that ‘I had done more mischief to the Jewish race than anyone who had lived in the last century. They said…that my reports on the Jewish question had gone around the world and had undone their work…. They finally said that I had stated that the stories of excesses against the Jews were exaggerated, to which I replied that they certainly were and I should think any Jew would be glad to know it.”

    Neff adds that “Frankfurter claimed that Gibson ‘had no right to make reports to the department in regard to Jewish matters and should have ‘refused’ on the ground that I could not possibly learn enough about them to make even general observations.’ Frankfurter then hinted that if Gibson continued his reports the Zionists would block his confirmation as ambassador to Poland by the Senate.”

    A letter Gibson wrote to his mother on 27 June 1919, three days after his meeting with Brandeis and Frankfurter, casts an interesting light on own his state of mind at the time: “I went down to the Relief Administration where I had two solid hours with Lewis Strauss [Herbert Hoover’s private secretary] on the Jewish question. I find that most of the people are overwrought and have reached that stage where they unconsciously want to believe every exaggerated yarn about excesses against the Jews. They take it as prejudice if you question any story no matter whether they know where it comes from or not, so long as it makes out a case against the Poles and shows that the Jews are suffering. They are in a bad situation but you can’t help the patient by treating him for an ailment he does not suffer from. I think that at the end of two hours I had convinced Lewis that I was not a Jew baiter and that I really want to help even if not in his simple way which consists chiefly in blackguarding the Polish Government for everything to be found in any report, no matter what its source, its foundation or its inspiration. I can see that there will be a tremendous amount of patient talking to be done among the American Jews before they will be willing to abandon the idea of curing all the ills of their people by one blast at the Polish Government. They have got to make up their minds to work untiringly with the Government and not against it, and if they do I am convinced they can accomplish great things.”

    As for the somewhat surprising allegation that Gibson’s report had “undone their work for months” it clearly pointed to the fact that the Zionists, who had indeed been working hard to impose a Minorities Treaty on Poland, needed as many accounts of exactions against the Jews as could e found to further their cause. Although the Minorities Treaty was indeed signed a few days after the confrontation, Gibson’s report ran counter to their interests.

  33. mp says:

    Everyone knows how horrible the Holocaust(TM) was, until you ask exactly what it was that happened? Then, the claims evaporate one by one, once exposed to the light of truth. That is why it is against the law to investigate the claims in much of Europe. The fact that non-Jews go along with this lunacy is…well, it’s lunacy.

    The Poland thing is just a continuing battle between two religions: Catholicism and Jewish materialism, the latter whose God is money (thanks for pointing that out, Karl) and Holocostism, which is the gift that keeps on giving. The H-word is supposed to make them immune from criticism, because they’ve “suffered” so much at the hands of gentiles.

  34. When dealing with such subjects, it may be counter productive to reference Wikipedia.

    Here’s one reason why.:

    CAMERA [the pro-Israel group (Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America)] called for volunteers to secretly work on editing Wikipedia entries. It emphasized the importance of keeping the project secret. Volunteers were schooled in ways to elude detection. After they signed up as editors, they were to “avoid editing Israel-related articles for a short period of time.”

    https://israelpalestinenews.org/israel-partisans-work-censor-internet/

    The slime is everywhere, and given their subversion and clandestine activities, can there be little wonder that the trolls are so paranoid?

  35. @Lex

    To change public discourse and shift the blame for the Holocaust from Germans and Germany to Poland,

    “The” holocaust itself seems to me to be an attempt to change public discourse and shift the blame for the world wars from the “one world” financiers of the wars onto their main victim, Germany and the Germans.

    …, is there any man here or any woman, let me say is there any child here, who does not know that the seed of war in the modern world is industrial and commercial rivalry…and the reason why some nations went into the war against Germany was that they thought Germany would get the commercial advantage of them. The seed of the jealousy, the seed of the deep-seated hatred was hot, successful commercial and industrial rivalry…

    This war, in its inception was a commercial and industrial war. It was not a political war.
    -Woodrow Wilson, Address at the Coliseum in St. Louis, Missouri, September 5, 1919

    http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=117365

    [Lloyd George] said, “ The truth is that we have got our way. We have got most of the things we set out to get. If you had told the British people twelve months ago that they would have secured what they have, they would have laughed you to scorn. The German Navy has been handed over; the German mercantile shipping has been handed over, and the German colonies have been given up. One of our chief trade competitors has been most seriously crippled and our Allies are about to become her biggest creditors.That is no small achievement. In addition, we have destroyed the menace to our Indian possessions.”

    -David Lloyd George, as quoted in LORD RIDDELL’S INTIMATE DIARY OF THE PEACE CONFERENCE AND AFTER , 1918—1923, p 42 (diary entry of 30 March 1919).

    https://archive.org/stream/in.ernet.dli.2015.189747/2015.189747.Lord-Riddells-Intimate-Diary-Of-The-Peace-Conference-And-After_djvu.txt

    For those who may want to whine that the comment is off topic, WW2 was little more than an extension of WW1 which Churchill himself admitted in a rare moment of lucidity and truthfulness.

  36. Vojkan says:

    I must admit that as a Serb I can’t help but relish in some “schadenfreude” when I see how butthurt by the Zionists the Poles feel now, the extraordinary talent the Zionists seem to have in producing anti-semites where there were none before notwithstanding.

  37. Z-man says:

    Holy shit can this hymie write a load or what! I stopped reading after I picked up this gem.

    In Poland, the tempers boil, but the supposedly “far-right” government is strangely timid in this matter.

    They know to beware the power of the Cabal.

    That’s it, Poland must be put on notice; sanctions and possible air strikes by the ZOG ‘ed puppet regime of the USA.

  38. @jilles dykstra

    Sudetenland! The best and highest quality hobs in the world grow there.
    Germans Czechs are beer drinkers. Any underestimation of importance of Sudetenland is a travesty.

  39. @Lex

    To change public discourse and shift the blame for the Holocaust from Germans and Germany to Poland

    If that ever happened, those ex-Nazis weren’t very successful. Certainly not in Germany.
    The more likely explanation is quite simply that a lot of Jews have a negative perception of Poland, for whatever reason. This has been known for a long time (e.g. even back in the 1970s Claude Lanzmann’s Shoah was criticized for its depiction of supposedly antisemitic Polish peasants) and is hardly news. Blaming it on some German conspiracy is just the usual paranoid nonsense which unfortunately seems to be widespread among the Polish right.

  40. The holocaust involved more than the jews, there were many other races and religions that were sent to death in the camps, and all of these are small in comparison the what the communist jews in Russia did to the Russian people, an estimated 50 to 60 million were killed from 1917 to 1953.

    • Replies: @polskijoe
  41. Ivan says:
    @utu

    The Holocaust is a tool that Jews use to keep the goyim in line. The Germans are either sufficiently cowed or cannot be made to cough up some more cash with sufficient obsequiousness. So now it is the turn of the Poles. Soon all that fine rhetoric about the Soviets being the liberators of Auschwitz will be forgotten. It is ever thus with these types of Jews. Never forgive or forget anything or anyone. Record in the “holy books” for all time. But never ever hold a mirror to oneself and see if one is blameworthy. The silver lining here is that more and more people just don’t give a damn for their bloody hypocrisy.

  42. Beckow says:
    @snag

    What Poland did in 1938 after Munich to Czechoslovakia was identical to what Nazi Germany did. A multi-ethnic territory that legally belonged to a neighbouring country was occupied by Poland.

    The same is true about the Soviet Union’s annexation of Western Ukraine and Western Belarus in 1939. They occupied areas that were inhabited mostly by Ukrainians and Belorussians. And also after Germany attacked Poland. If Poland did it, why shouldn’t others do it to Poland?

    Different nations, different scale, but exactly the same principle – ‘protect people of your nationality’ living in neighbouring countries.

    The fact that Poland did the same thing to Czechoslovakia undermines Polish claims to some martyr purity. Would you stop with the preachy pontificating about Poland always being ‘just a victim‘? (And Wiki as a source? Right, I am sure the Polish version is really ‘nuanced’.)

    • Replies: @szopen
    , @polskijoe
    , @snag
  43. The 2 nations that suffered the most at the hands of the Nazis were Poland and Byelorussia (Balarus).

    • Replies: @polskijoe
  44. Wally says:
    @utu

    said:
    “Finally you should recapture control over institutions like Jewish Museum in Warsaw and Auschwitz Museum and in the long run hold a plan of closing Auschwitz down and ploughing it over.”

    Indeed, utu would like that.
    “Ploughing it over” would be one way of hiding the fakery & absurd claims made of structures which could not have functioned as alleged. Not to mention the ‘reconstruction’ work done AFTER the war.
    Now, science, observation, and logic simply demolish the preposterous claims about Auschwitz.
    A perfect example of science & technology at work are the war time aerial photos taken of Auschwitz . Below, see the aerial photos of Auschwitz and how they have been tampered with to fit the Holocaust narrative.

    https://codoh.com/library/document/5390/?lang=en

    Memorabilia: Examination of the Air Photo Evidence of Auschwitz featuring John Ball
    By John Clive Ball.

    See more below, such as:
    Drawn in ‘Jews being marched to gas chambers’, on a roof. and:
    ‘Critique of Claims Made by Robert Jan Van Pelt’

    http://www.vho.org/GB/c/GR/RudolfOnVanPelt.html

    and:
    ‘Altered Aerial Photos and the Shadows of Doom’

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3249

    and:
    Air Photo Evidence

    https://archive.org/details/AirPhotoEvidenceAuschwitz

    http://www.codoh.com

  45. MLK says:

    Reading this I felt that now familiar warm feeling that began the day POTUS Trump took the oath. Slowly but (hopefully) surely Americans are getting back to our own business, and leaving this sort of hoo-ha to foreigners and interested resident ethnics.

  46. As always, the article is just a pretext to launch yet another hysterical American attack on the EU. I would guess that the shadowy author, who seems to exist only on an anti-Muslim hate site called Gates of Vienna, is seeking to use this issue to drive a wedge between Poland and the EU which, even if anybody in Poland actually reads the article, is unlikely to succeed inasmuch as Poland’s only alternative to the EU is Putin’s tanks.
    The crazy thing about the “crisis”, though, is that there isn’t a crisis! As the author points out, there is no “Polish bill to outlaw talk of Poles’ complicity in the Nazis’ crimes”. According to the BBC’s translation, the bill provides that “whoever accuses, publicly and against the facts, the Polish nation, or the Polish state, of being responsible or complicit in the Nazi crimes committed by the Third German Reich … shall be subject to a fine or a penalty of imprisonment of up to three years”. The Polish nation and the Polish State, not individual Poles or private Polish groups, and even then, only if it’s “against the facts”. During the period in question, the entire territory of the Polish Republic was under German or Soviet occupation, so it’s hard to see how the Polish State could have any responsibility for the death camps on its territory. There wasn’t even a local “quisling” Polish government. As for the Polish nation, that is to say, the Polish people in its entirety, as an ethnic group, it’s hard to see, without even a quisling government claiming to act on their behalf and which, it might be alleged, most of them supported, how they could be held responsible for anything the Germans did while in their country. The individual responsibility of any individual Pole for conduct under the occupation is untouched and unchallenged. At first glance, therefore, the bill appears to be absurd and unnecessary.
    My best guess is that’s what’s behind it is the question of property rights: foreign, mainly American or Israeli, Jews claiming entitlement to property on the basis that an ancestor of theirs was improperly deprived of it during the German occupation. In other words, not just a doctrine of “collective guilt” but a sort of “hereditary collective guilt”. The communist regime seized all property and after the fall of the dictatorship, houses, apartments, business premises etc. were sold off, often to the people who actually occupied them. What people fear is that someone will now come along and claim the property that they thought they had bought and paid for, forcing the Polish government to buy them off or see its own citizens evicted from the property. To what extent that has, or is actually happening, I don’t know.

    • Replies: @j2
    , @Lex
  47. annamaria says:
    @Dan Herman

    Agree.
    What Israel has done is to open a well-documented criticism of Jewish”eternal victimhood.”

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/israel-protects-concentration-camp-boss-1194791.html

    “Salomon Morel is wanted by the prosecutor’s office in the southern Polish city of Katowice. He is charged with crimes against humanity while he was commander of the Swietochlowice camp… A reply sent to the Polish Justice Ministry from Israeli authorities said that Israel would not extradite Mr Morel. Officials said the crimes with which he is charged are not perceived in Israel as genocide, and so are subject to the statute of limitations… Dorota Boriczek, a camp survivor, remembers Salomon Morel as a barbaric and cruel man who, with his colleagues, was responsible for many killings of inmates. “I knew Morel in the camp. He was a very brutal man. He was young then. He would come in at night. We could hear the cries of the men then. They would beat them and throw the bodies out of the window,” Mrs Boriczek, now 68 and living in Ludswigberg, Germany, told The Independent. “I was taken there when I was 14, with my mother. I still don’t know why we were there and I still want to know. They told us when we arrived, `You are here, and you are here to die, although nobody will shoot you, because ammunition is too expensive’. …
    The Polish military prosecutor in Warsaw recently issued an arrest warrant for Helena Brus, formerly Wolinska, now married to an Oxford don. During the 1950s Ms Wolinska worked as a military prosecutor in Warsaw, issuing arrest warrants. Many of those detained under her orders were later hanged. Both Mr Morel and Mrs Brus are Jewish.
    – Add to these the names of Naftali Frankel, the principal organizer of GULAG (a network of concentration camps in Russia) where millions of Russian citizens perished under horriorrific circumstances, and Lazar Kaganovitch, the principal organizer of Holodomor in Ukraine.
    The article states a logical and highly inconvenient question for the Lobby and the Friends of Israel: “How many Israeli politicians and media mavens commented on the giant portraits of Nazi allies and Jews’ (and Poles’) mass murderers Stepan Bandera, Roman Shukhevych and Yevhen Konovalets, borne by adoring crowds of the “Maidan revolution” in Lvov and Kiev, said “maidan” enjoying the enthusiastic support of at least two Jewish-Ukrainian oligarchs with Israeli citizenship?”
    The Kagans’ clan anyone? How about the ongoing proliferation of neo-Nazism in Ukraine and Canada, thanks to the strong collaborative efforts among ziocons and banderites?
    What about the Jewish war criminals (murderers) like Morel and “military prosecutors” like Wolinska?

  48. Razparuk says:
    @German_reader

    Sorry but polish teritory was 383 000km2 before II WW, after is 312 000 km2-we didn’t asked for “change teritory” . We lost this cause decision of USA,USSR,UK so Germans have blame them or Hitler…ur choice

    • Replies: @byrresheim
  49. Art says:
    @Dan Herman

    What Poland done is to open the Pandora Box, which Netanyahu nor any Jews is able to close. History is now open for debate….

    Exactly — the longer the debate goes on – the better. The Jews cannot win the six million lie.

    Think peace — Art

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
  50. RobinG says:
    @jilles dykstra

    You seem knowledgeable of this subject. At least, you’ve linked numerous specific references. I’ve already been “disagreed” with for saying this, but I was given first hand account of dissolution of Warsaw Jewish ghetto…. that Lithuanians were enlisted (by Germans) to carry out final dispersal, and subsequently the Lithuanians were put on a ship that was [purposely] sunk. Have you ever heard this story?

    • Replies: @Beckow
    , @jilles dykstra
  51. Why do these losers insist on outlawing historical research and controversy?

  52. Wally says:
    @German_reader

    said:
    “But there is no organized German campaign to shift responsibility for the Holocaust onto Poland. This exists only in the imagination of Polish right-wingers.”

    Seriously? Germans & other Europeans are arrested if they try anything that alters the impossible ’6M Jews, 5M others & gas chambers’ scam.

    Below is where free speech on the impossible ‘holocaust’ storyline is illegal, violators go to prison for Thought Crimes & Free Speech.
    An obvious admission that the storyline doesn’t stand up to scientific, logical, & rational scrutiny.

    https://forum.codoh.com/download/file.php?id=1858

    http://www.codoh.com

  53. annamaria says:
    @Ilyana_Rozumova

    Check the date of the publication.

  54. @snag

    Thank you, sir.

    I have heretofore been impressed with jyles’ reading lists and non-abusive comments, but I say that I’ve now become very disappointed in the quality of his views and not only because he presents as credible evidence, the tabloid style sensationalist fake “history’ by the high society Glamour Girl, Bella Fromm , but also because he states that her story is credible because similar things were written by others!

    I had never heard of her, but it took all of 1/2 hour to see that she was nothing more than another rich attention seeking gadabout and gossip; she has no credibility in my mind, and jyles did himself a disservice by presenting her and then trying to defend his error.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  55. snag says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Somebody who cites Jan Gross or Anne Applebaum it’s someone with an agenda to whitewash Jewish atrocities. Somebody who writes the book like ‘Red Famine: Stalin’s War on Ukraine’ and forgets to mention who’s idea was it who was the engineer and executioner of that atrocity is nothing but hasbara goon and zio-crap peddler.

    Trotsky, Zinoviev, Kamenev, Kaganovich, Yagoda (Jews) responsible for Holodomor a genocide of 8 – 10 million starved to death Ukrainian farmland owners during one winter 1932/33*, a whole segment of society because for who they were which according to their formula constitutes holocaust not to mention ethnic cleansing of Crimean Tatars, again, by Kaganowich and his hand picked goons murdering half of the population on the spot with the remaining shipped to Gulags and other God forsaken places in Siberia designated to die and re-populating Crimea with Jewish settlers.

    *Compare it with the efficiency and costs German concentration camps.

    Somebody who writes ‘Gulag: A History’ and forgets to mention who’s idea was it who was the engineer and executioner is a liar with an agenda.

    Gulags – A forced labor camp system in reality a death camp system was more horrible than Auschwitz run by Matvei Berman and Naftaly Frenkel (founders) their buddies Lev Inzhir a commissar of the Gulag transit and administration, Firin, Rappoport, Kogan, Zhuk, were the commissars of camps and slave labor that supervised the construction of the Belomorsk Canal and other projects responsible for at least 30 million worked/starved to death “enemies” of the revolution. The gulag system pre-dates over 2 decades the death camps build by nazis.

    Somebody who writes that you can accommodate and incinerate 1600 people in small barn is insulting our intelligence not to mention that he’s making up the participation of Poles in that event. Grosse’s version of that account is a product of sick bastard who’s parents were saved by some Polish sucker who risked his, his family and often his neighbors life allowing them to produce human maggot like him. Gross is a sociologist not historian as he claims.

    By the way, Auschwitz was chosen because of it’s logistic location (middle of concentration of jewish population) and proximity of major railway junction.

  56. @annamaria

    With all due respect please check your basic calculus.
    She was 14 taken to camp and she is now 68? Your numbers simply do not add up!!!!

    • Replies: @annamaria
  57. @annamaria

    Annamaria:

    Please some corrections:

    It is not Lvov. It is Lwow, a temporarily lost region of Poland.

    The helot-in-chief, Bandera, should be properly addressed by his helot name, Consul 1.

    This was the name given to him by Master Hitler and later, the CIA.

  58. utu says:

    So why didn’t the British declare war on Slovakia too?

    For the same reason they did not declare war on USSR. A better question is why Polish government issued an order of not resisting or engaging Soviet troops on Sept. 17? And why did they all evacuate to Rumania and Hungary so soon?

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  59. @Lex

    You didn’t read your own rebuttal link! Yes, the Wiki intro repeats the myth that Britain only promised to defend Poland should Germany invade, but later on it clarifies:

    On 25 August, two days after the Nazi-Soviet Pact, the Agreement of Mutual Assistance between the United Kingdom and Poland was signed. The agreement contained promises of mutual military assistance between the nations in the event either was attacked by some “European country”.

    and has the text of the agreement:

    ” … in the event of any action which clearly threatened Polish independence, and which the Polish Government accordingly considered it vital to resist with their national forces, His Majesty’s Government would feel themselves bound at once to lend the Polish Government all support in their power. They have given the Polish Government an assurance to this effect.

    I may add that the French Government have authorised me to make it plain that they stand in the same position in this matter as do His Majesty’s Government.”

    _________________

    I did learn more from this. Slovakia joined in the invasion of Poland in 1939 and sent 50,000 troops across the border.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovak_invasion_of_Poland_(1939)

    So why didn’t the British declare war on Slovakia too?

  60. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Art

    Hey Art,

    I’ve found you, you 70 year old crazy lunatic!

    Arthur Jones formerly of the American Nazi Party. You’re a national embarrassment and a slur on the Republican party.

    Why not boost them by dropping out and declaring that they are the opposite of Nazis and so you had to leave?

    Best regards,

    Me.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
    , @iffen
    , @Art
  61. AndrewR says:

    What’s next? A law banning claims that Poles ethnically cleansed Germans after the war? Or a law banning any criticism of said ethnic cleansing?

    This law proves that the anti-Pole sentiments of Friedrich der Grosse, Hitler, and other prominent Deutsche were eminently justified.

    • Replies: @Gene Dobry
  62. szopen says:
    @Beckow

    right, I am sure the Polish version is really ‘nuanced’.

    Sure it is.

    (1) Czechoslovakia reached to Poland first, proposing Zaolzie in exchange for alliance. Poland instead issued ultimatum, which Czechoslovakia accepted.

    (2) Zaolzie was first divided in local agreement based on ethnic lines in 1919. Czechs violated the local agreement, attacking totally unprepared local Polish units. Local Poles were so sure the agreement was final that they were sending best unit to the Lviv!

    (3) Czechs then forced Polish government to resign from demands on plebiscite in 1921, when Soviet army was approaching Warsaw. (2)+(3) poisoned Polish-Czechoslovakian relationships, and Czechs arrogant continous innuendos that Poland is just backward primitive state which will soon collapse had not helped either.

    I still think that we were wrong in 1938, and because of that action we lost moral rights to Zaolzie – but I’d say Czechs’ behaviour in 1919 was really, really awful and shortsighted.

    • Replies: @Beckow
  63. szopen says:
    @Carlton Meyer

    We all know the evil Nazi’s invaded Czechoslovakia, but no one mentions that Poland grabbed a chunk first.

    Sure, but earlier in 1918 local Czechs and local Poles made a local agreement about how to divide the territory, and then Czechs attacked Poles, using very dirty tricks (like for example pretending they are “entente officers”).

  64. @Tyrion 2

    You’re a national embarrassment and a slur on the Republican party.

    Both major parties are slurs on themselves and national embarrassments and worse, so what’s your point?

    I suppose now that we’ve gone full commie (since FDR), Nazism is verboten?

    You really think that FDR’s, Churchill’s and Stalin’s brands of fascism were substantially different from Wall Street supported Bolshevism?

    Our own government, especially the Izzy firsters, are not only an embarrassment, but a menace to American society.

    The whole system stinks and has for over a century, and you think Art is a problem?

    Think peace!

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
  65. szopen says:
    @Carlton Meyer

    Poland’s dictator was arrogant, insulted Hitler, and refused to discuss a Danzig rail corridor to East Prussia, which other nations thought a reasonable demand.

    That’s not a real summary.

    (1) for years Hitler was assuring Poland that Danzig is non-issue

    (2) Then he demanded not just “Danzig rail corridor”. His demands varied, but in general there were those:

    (a) plebiscite in Western Poland, in which Polish military, police would withdraw, all Poles who settled there after 1919 would be forbidden to vote, while every German who was born before 1919 there could vote (ignoring the fact that many of those were settlers or children of military and police)
    (b) Danzig would go to Germany
    (c) Poland would join Axis.

    He would then guarantee Poland’s borders.

    Now, given that he already has given several promises, and he always broke them, nobody in Poland believed in his single word. He said “this is my last demand” after Sudetenland,then after incorporating rest of Czechoslovakia. I’d say that it’s reasonable to expect that if Poland would agree to his “reasonable” demands, then he would continue to make new demands.

    Not to mention that demand of plebiscite in Western Poland on his conditions was clearly a demand impossible to fulfill and could be given only to a state already defeated in war.

  66. iffen says:
    @Jonathan Revusky

    before embarking on such a long-winded essay

    But I thought word count was your measure of validity and value.

    • Troll: Jonathan Revusky
  67. @snag

    ” Auschwitz was chosen because of it’s logistic location ”

    You deny the production of synthetic rubber, high octane aviation fuel, and oil there from abundant coal and water ?
    What do you think the allies began bombing from the end of 1944 on, from Italy ?
    Why do you think in early 1945 hundreds of Me jet fighters could not fly ?
    Even Ben Gurion understood that the Auschwitz camps were camps for workers, as also Elie Wiesel describes in
    Elie Wiesel, ‘La Nuit’, 1958, 2007
    Wiesel worked in a large storage facility for electric parts.

    • Replies: @snag
  68. Beckow says:
    @RobinG

    Warsaw Jewish ghetto…. that Lithuanians were enlisted (by Germans) to carry out final dispersal, and subsequently the Lithuanians were put on a ship that was [purposely] sunk

    I would like to know more about it. But two terms bother me: ‘final dispersal‘ and ‘purposely sunk‘. Those can be interpreted differently. Self-serving story telling takes a true event, weaves a story out of it, and adds a few subjective terms that suggest a political meaning. When you actually think about it is always more complex. How would you sink a ship with only the Lithuanians? What does ‘final’ mean?

    WWII in eastern Europe was a very messy affair. There were a lot of inconsistencies. There were millions of local ‘Volk Deutsch’ (Germans ethnics who had lived there for centuries). There were also a lot of people whose nationality was fluid. A son of the pre-war head of Czech nationalists joined SS and was killed for that after the war by nationalists returning from London. Of course, later he was added to the list of ‘victims of communism’, it made the numbers look better. My grandpa’s family was assigned a German soldier to live in his house, a middle-aged baker from Berlin who was telling the locals how to survive, when was the front coming. The same German unit then shot three local ‘educated’ people on their way out of village. Mindless revenge? Quota? Nihilism?

    Given all that happened, any side in this belated ideological battle can draw on lots of ‘stories’. In the West there has been a slow, subtle effort to shift the blame away from the Germans because Germany is a key ally for Nato. And no matter how much people here will deny it, there is a strong ethnic kinship with Germans in UK and US. (Prince Harry marches in a Nazi uniform for a reason even if it is a joke). Among many Jews there is identification with German culture and an ambivalent attitude that often prefers to go after the Poles. It is also geo-politically better. We see in the past what we want to see.

  69. polskijoe says:

    Thanks for the article. Europeans (and even more so Americans) need to be informed,

    that the Jews are NOT innoccent either. They also participated with Nazism and Communism.

    I am not gonna blame all Jews, but organized Jewry is irrational, annoying, and quite frankly mad.

    So why are there arguments over this law? Do Jews want to keep the monopoly of the genocide or Holocaust to themselves? What does a name change bother them?

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
  70. @RobinG

    That Lithuaians, and Ukrainians, were used in the deportations of jews is well known.
    The ship story, never heard of.
    Ukrainians also were no friends of jews, this goes back to the early twenties when Bolsjewists, many of them jews, chased Ukrainian farmers from their farmers.
    Voline ( Vsevolod Mikhailovitsch Eichenbaum), ‘The unknown revolution (Kronstadt 1921 Ukraine 1918-21)’, New York 1955

  71. Beckow says:
    @szopen

    You are intentionally mixing up 1919-20 with what happened in 1938. Focus. It was a land-grab pure and simple, and it predated a similar land-grab by Soviets a year later to ‘reunite Ukrainians and Belorussians’. The arguments used by Poland and Soviets were identical.

    Czechs arrogant continous innuendos that Poland is just backward primitive state which will soon collapse

    That is just random. How long would you have to dig in millions of articles, speeches and throw-away lines to show that? You can write a similar sentence about almost any nation ‘saying’ that about its neighbours at that time. Poland says it today daily about Russia. Or do they? See how slippery these generalisations can be?

    • Replies: @szopen
    , @Razparuk
  72. polskijoe says:
    @Beckow

    Doesnt undermine nothing.

    How many Czechoslovaks were killed by Poles? How many cities were flattened?

    vs

    How many Poles were killed by Nazi homos? How many cities were flattened.

    *Poland is not innocent definetly, but to equate these type of things is nonsense*

    People like to also say Poland “collaberated with Nazis” because of some non aggression pact.

    What matters is alliances and mass murdering.

    (During WW2 and pre times there were many intersecting Non Aggrsesion Pacts between many parties).

  73. Wally says:
    @snag

    said:
    ” The gulag system pre-dates over 2 decades the death camps build by nazis.”

    What “death camps”? Please provide proof that the Germans built “death camps” to murder people in.

    Please provide proof that millions were allegedly murdered in them.

    Healthy Jews at Auschwitz ‘liberation’:
    http://fcit.coedu.usf.edu/holocaust/PICS31/66935a.jpg

    - If there was ‘a plan to kill every Jew the Germans could get their hands on’ as alleged, then why are there countless numbers of so called “survivor$”?

    - If the alleged ‘holocaust’ was fact, then why are there laws in Europe to prevent scrutiny of it? What kind of “truth” needs to imprison people to prevent free speech?

    - If Jews are so sure that millions of Jews were murdered, then why do they ask such dumb questions like “what happened to them then?
    After all, Jews say ’6M Jews & 5M others’ went to huge mass graves, Jews claim to know the exact locations of these alleged enormous mass graves, yet Jews can show us nothing of the kind.

    Thanks.
    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @szopen
    , @snag
  74. Tyrion 2 says:
    @jacques sheete

    He is an albatross that will be hung over Trump’s neck. Were he a paid Democrat operative, he could not be more effective in undermining the Republican party.

    I know you’re thinking I’m just a (((Jew))) but I am also talking sense. What on earth does that lunatic hope to achieve?

    His politics are obviously anathema to me but mine would be a huge improvement for him on the current year. It’d be good if he had the self-awareness to realise just quite how toxic his views actually are and how much harm he is doing.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  75. polskijoe says:
    @Thales the Milesian

    Quite true, percentage wise during WW2:

    Belarus lost 22% of citizens
    Poland lost 16% of citizens
    Ukraine lost 16% citizens
    Russia lost 13% of citizens
    Baltic countries lost 12% citizens.

    Poland, Belarus, Russia 9/10 were caused by Nazi homos.
    Ukraine and Baltics is more complicated. But for Ukraine Im guessing 7/10 caused by Nazis
    and Baltics, 5/10? (someone with more knowledge on Ukraine and Baltics can correct me).

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  76. Tyrion 2 says:
    @polskijoe

    The majority of organised Jewry is Israel and Israel has been a clear friend of the European right for all of my living memory.

    • Replies: @polskijoe
  77. iffen says:
    @szopen

    I was hoping that you would come in with your excellent comments regarding Polish history and politics.

    • Replies: @szopen
  78. polskijoe says:
    @DESERT FOX

    The holocaust involved more than the jews, there were many other races and religions that were sent to death in the camps,

    Agreed. Actually the Jews were a minority of those killed.

    , and all of these are small in comparison the what the communist jews in Russia did to the Russian people, an estimated 50 to 60 million were killed from 1917 to 1953.

    Completely disagree. Those figures outdated and disproven. Most of those estimates were made before known files were realeased. Some of those estimates were made decades ago.

    Victims killed by Stalin included Russians but also large amounts of nonRussians.

  79. szopen says:
    @Beckow

    Did you somehow missed the line when I have written, to quote myself: I still think that we were wrong in 1938?

    I have just provided the context.

    I do not say BTW about Czech innuendos justifying Polish taking of (majority Polish) Zaolzie, I have just written that Polish-Czechoslovakian relationships were pretty bad not just because of Zaolzie, but also because of attitude of Czech politicians.

    • Replies: @Beckow
  80. @Beckow

    And no matter how much people here will deny it, there is a strong ethnic kinship with Germans in UK and US

    Britain must be one of the most obsessively anti-German countries in Europe, their entire public discourse is full of perpetual references to the world wars and Germany’s alleged quest to dominate Europe even today. And while there are lots of Americans with some German ancestry, this doesn’t really manifest itself in any German cultural power in the US or in positive attitudes towards Germany (at least I’ve never noticed anything of the kind…more like we’re always being reminded that we’re still on probation and can’t really be trusted).
    Nor do I buy that there is a concerted effort to blame Poles for the Holocaust due to geopolitical reasons. The truth is simply that lots of Jews dislike Poles for the traditional antisemitism in Polish society (which shouldn’t be confused with Nazi exterminationist antisemitism) and therefore have a warped view of WW2 realities in Poland.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    , @David In TN
  81. iffen says:
    @Tyrion 2

    You shouldn’t try to dox people, Tyrion 2.

    And, there is something about your comments that give some anti-anti-Semites a second thoughts.

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    , @Art
  82. polskijoe says:
    @Tyrion 2

    Depending on which right wing political groups.

    When it comes to the elites:

    Some of the Populists and National Conservatives have Zionist allies.
    Some do NOT

    Historically Catholic parties werent Zionist friendly. May have changed in the 1-3 decades, because US/UK Intellgience agencies got more power in powerful organizations like Le Cercle. This lead to introducing Neocons into original Catholic secret organizations.

    Whent it comes to the people:

    Most Continental Europeans right wings (populists, nationalists, etc) are not fans of Jews or Zionism.

    Compared to the USA

    The Ring wing elites are heavily with Jews/Zionists.
    And most Republicans support Isreal, more than any other nation.

  83. szopen says:

    One Polish publicist argued that the law was intended by the proposers to signal to its hardcore base “see, we will fight anti-polonism!”, while intended to be toothless.

    I have to say that while I am rightwing, maybe even right-wing nationalist, I think the law is badly written and should not be signed at all – not because of 55a, but because of art 55b (punishing foreign citizens in foreign countries is not the brightest idea to be put into the law). However, the hysterical reaction by both domestic comprador elites, leftists abroad and Israeli too means I do not think we should step back on this. Moreover, the law is superfluous because two already existing laws can be combined to more or less the same effect.

    There are many other laws restricting free speech in Poland which are quite stupid and should be abandoned. For example, a law which in theory could be used to accuse Polish citizen because he writes something like “our president is stupid” or even “President of some African country is stupid”. In the second case, the law was until now used I think _once_ since 1989, but even in this law exists mainly in theory, it still should be removed.

  84. szopen says:
    @iffen

    To be honest I am not sure if any, no matter how reasonable, demand put by Hitler would be fulfilled by Poland. The historical context matters and in 1939 Polish government had no trust in Hitler’s words.

    Part of that could be because of cult of personality surrounding Pilsudski who supposedly warned that Germany will inevitably attack Poland and the first signal will be demands with regards to Danzig (whether Pilsudski really thought that war with Germany will happened at latest in 1940 is debatable; it could be that his epigones simply wanted to perpetuate the vision of Pilsudski as great visionary and political genius). Part of that was internal politics and internal strifes, with government (rightfull or wrong) being affraid that if it would fulfill German demands, it would be overthrown.

    The key fact is, however, that Hitler’s demands were not reasonable.

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @iffen
  85. szopen says:
    @Wally

    Hmmm so, according to you, why before the war Poland had 3 million Jewish citizens, and after war 100.000?

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @renfro
  86. polskijoe says:
    @Miro23

    Anglo (in US and UK) with their Jewish money masters and “intellectuals”

    want Europe to be divided. Making sure no group dominates.

    1)They want to prevent Russia-German relations
    2)They want to prevent Polish-Russian relations.

    Poles MUST understand the US will choose Israel and Jews over Poles.

    Many Polish generals know that US will do little to help.
    40% of Poles think NATO would NOT help against major invasion.

    • Replies: @Miro23
  87. snag says:
    @Beckow

    One more time, concentrate, read what’s provided to you and spare me this Soviet Union’s, Western Ukraine and Western Belarus dancing. You’re already admitted that it was a ‘multi-ethnic territory’ now read the history.

  88. Mulegino1 says:

    Back in the 1930′s, Europeans of Christian descent were fed up with the International Whiners’ Litigants’ and Usurers’ Club a.k.a. international Jewry; nowadays that sentiment is growing exponentially by orders of magnitude.

    The ideological crutch of Jewry’s guilt based dominance of the western moral narrative is being pulled out from under it by stubborn and fact based revisionism.

    The Shoah Business has always been a remarkably adaptive and protean narrative around which the evidence must fit in Procrustean fashion. First, it was “Shoah by ovens”, then “Shoah by gassings”, then “Shoah by bullets.” Pretty soon it will be “Shoah by anecdote”, i.e., somebody’s grandfather’s great aunt saw someone shot by an S.S. man, a baby torn in half by a Ukrainian auxiliary or kicked to death by an enraged Pole. The narrative will be kept alive even if life support, as long as international Jewry can use it to shake down Europe and the world. I would daresay that pretty soon they will place blame on the United States and demand reparations and the U.S. Congress will gladly oblige. The Jewish collective’s one common dream is that both China and Japan will ultimately take responsibility for this “greatest crime in all of history.” Then the encirclement of the globe in a vise of kosher guilt will be complete.

    It is indeed gratifying that the Poles are giving the Jewish gander his own sauce. As one proceeds from western and central Europe south and east, the level of Jew awareness goes up. The Poles and Russians know first hand what it is to carry this scorpion on their back.

  89. @polskijoe

    Germany, including those who died after WWII, 11 million, about 25%;

    • Replies: @polskijoe
  90. snag says:
    @Wally

    Oh please, my father’s fishing partner and close friend was there for four and a half years and survived. He told us that Russian POW’s were ones that were most mistreated and murdered by starvation and frozen to death during the winter time. He also said that there were no Jews in Auschwitz. Birkenau was for Jews, he was sent there few times with some delivery of food and tobacco to SS and didn’t see or hear about gas chambers. For Russian prisoners of war it was a death camp.

    • Replies: @Wally
  91. Razparuk says:
    @Beckow

    Czechoslovakia didn’tresist in result Poland have to choose, let Hitler grab many Poles to exterminate or not..second thing was industry.. third was resentiments after 1919-21. Bad thing and moraly wrong…

  92. @szopen

    Danzig never was a non issue, read
    Günter Grass, ‘Beim Häuten der Zwiebel’, München 2008
    Grass lived in Danzig.
    He also explains how Germans, some of his relatives did, living in Poland were discriminated by Poles.

    The corridor had nothing to do with Danzig.
    After Versailles E Prussia could not be reached overland from Germany.
    E Prussia had bad harbours.
    Therefore Hitler wanted an extraterritorial corridor from Germany to E Prussia, wide enough for a motorway, four lane, and a double railway.

    That was all he wanted.

    • Replies: @szopen
    , @iffen
    , @szopen
  93. @Tyrion 2

    I know you’re thinking I’m just a (((Jew))) but I am also talking sense. What on earth does that lunatic hope to achieve?

    His politics are obviously anathema to me but mine would be a huge improvement for him on the current year. It’d be good if he had the self-awareness to realise just quite how toxic his views actually are and how much harm he is doing.

    I wasn’t thinking that at all, but I’ve long felt it odd that “Jews,” who we all know are far above average in intelligence, knowledge, and special in their G-d’s eye, should support, with complete lack of self awareness, the abominable terrorist State of Israel.

    What explains your inability to comprehend how toxic your views and actions are and how much harm the Zionist project is continuing to do to Jews in general?

    I’m especially amazed that such “gifted” folks should continue down those self destructive paths even though they were warned about the results by Jews with real brains.

    …It’s hard to imagine now, but in 1944, six years after Kristallnacht, Lessing J. Rosenwald, president of the American Council for Judaism, felt comfortable equating the Zionist ideal of Jewish statehood with “the concept of a racial state — the Hitlerian concept.” For most of the last century, a principled opposition to Zionism was a mainstream stance within American Judaism.
    Even after the foundation of Israel, anti-Zionism was not a particularly heretical position.

    -Ben Ehrenreich, Zionism is the problem

    http://www.latimes.com/la-oe-ehrenreich15-2009mar15-story.html

    Jews who know their own history should be aware that such a state of affairs will inevitably lead to a new wave of Jew-hatred; the antisemitism of tomorrow will assert that Jews not only profiteered from the presence of foreign big powers in that region but had actually plotted it and hence are guilty of the consequences…

    -Hannah Arendt, Zionism Reconsidered, Jewish Writings p 345

    https://preview.tinyurl.com/yapfnfa5

    This stuff is so obvious that a dumb goy like myself can appreciate it, so why can’t the bright ones, or don’t they care? Or what?

    It seems pretty obvious that the Zionist State of Israel is the worst anti-Semitic and anti-Jew entity that ever existed. They’ve made a mockery of all that Jews claim to stand for, and to add insult to injury, the schmucks are mostly non-Semite, but Eastern European rejects!

  94. Beckow says:
    @szopen

    I didn’t miss it, since we agree on that, I didn’t mention it.

    Polish-Czechoslovakian relationships were pretty bad not just because of Zaolzie, but also because of attitude of Czech politicians

    The attitude had to be on both sides. I usually don’t defend Czech politicians, especially the ones from Prague, but they are generally a sensible group that avoids provocations. Maybe what you refer to is the general stereotype that Czechs and Poles have of each other (go to Poland to bark and back to Czech to eat). Even some Poles share that attitude. One reason the relationship is bad is the Czech self-perception as rational people and perception of Poles as more emotional, and often not in touch with reality when it comes to economics or history. Notice the sober Czech relationship with both Germany and Russia that plays it safe and compare to a more noisy – one could say self-defeating – attitudes that prevail in Poland. My view, is that given our strategic situation we should be closer. But I will not march on Moscow for you, that’s just stupid. You march east again, you are marching alone…

  95. iffen says:
    @szopen

    RE: this article.

    Overall, it was a pretty good piece, don’t you think?

    The Israeli/Jewish reactions to some events are definitely entering bizzaro world.

    • Agree: szopen
  96. @polskijoe

    @polskijoe
    It’s useless to argue with religious fanatics, and so you’ll not succeed in convincing @desert fox or the Hitler-was-cool crazies trolling here. You can no more teach them the facts as to exactly who murdered the 30-40 million Russians as you can about the Holodomor.

    “The Jews” murdered millions of Ukrainians, they’ll continue proclaiming to their dying day, even though already in 2010, a high court in Kiev — and that’s perhaps the least philosemitic city in Europe — decreed that the blame for the Holodomor rests with one Georgian, two Russians, two Jews, one Pole and one Ukrainian. http://memorialholodomor.org.ua/eng/holodomor/genocide/court-order.

    Likewise, if you mention that Stalin, Lenin, Beria, Yezhov, Blokhin, Dherzhinsky etc. etc. were not Jews, they’ll pull out something written by a similarly deranged mind, arguing that they were.
    It’s useless. I just wish they stopped trolling here and went to their IHR, Faurisson, Duke & Co. — a friendly environment for them that I would not be as uncivil as invading.

    • Agree: polskijoe
    • Replies: @jacques sheete
    , @polskijoe
  97. Great article. Jewish political theater is getting laughably out of control. The hasbarists actually believe their own Fake News.

    Jewish narcissism, Jewish conceit, and Jewish ethnocentrism are without peer, not to mention Jewish hypocrisy. It’s time to turn this kosher narrative on its head.

    Massive Jewish criminality in the form of organized, communist subversion and communist mass murder must be addressed also. Never forget real history. All of it.

    Ironically, international Jewish extremism gave cause and sustenance to the rise of Nazism.

    Nazism represented just one lethal political force among many. As usual, the Jews were in the middle of another hellstorm. Moreover, Hitler and Nazi Germany paid for their sins. But not the commies and Zions. They got away with murder. Yet they insist upon playing ‘victim’. Still. What a crock. This fabrication is today’s Biggest Lie.

    How many ex-commies received aid and comfort after WWII as citizens of the ‘Jewish State’?–or in the US? Plenty. Yet they’re always innocent, always blameless. These falsehoods must be addressed. Malcontents should not be celebrated. Mass murderers should not walk among us. And these same deceivers should not be allowed to pass moral (and judicial) judgement.

    The entire Zionist enterprise is soaked in blood. Zionists should pay reparations and restitution to their many victims. It’s time we addressed it. Loudly.

    The Holocaust yarn must also be put into perspective. Not only are the Jewish causality figures surely exaggerated, but the ongoing elevation of Jewish suffering trivializes the pain and horror that far greater numbers of non-Jews have had to endure over the past century or more.

    Finally, Israeli war crimes, international Zionist meddling and political interference must be confronted and repudiated. It’s time we pushed back. These criminals deserve to be recognized for what they are.

    • Replies: @anarchyst
  98. iffen says:
    @Jonathan Revusky

    iffen says:
    March 11, 2018 at 6:49 pm GMT
    @Jonathan Revusky
    before embarking on such a long-winded essay
    But I thought word count was your measure of validity and value.
    • Troll: Jonathan Revusky

    Shit-eater.

    • LOL: utu
  99. @polskijoe

    These figures of 50 to 60 million are from Solzhentsyns book The Gulag Archipelago and Robert Conquests book Harvest of Sorrow, and others. The Jews were the vast majority of the communists in the Soviet aka communist government and ran the slaughter houses known as the Cheka, etc., these figures are not an exaggeration , and in fact may be on the low side.

    If the Zionists take our guns away we will see similar events right here in River City.

    • Replies: @polskijoe
  100. szopen says:
    @jilles dykstra

    That was all he wanted.

    No. You are misinformed. Initially in April yes, but the final ultimatum was (from wikipedia):

    “Danzig was to return to Germany and there was to be a plebiscite in the Polish Corridor; Poles who had been born or had settled there since 1919 would have no vote, while all Germans born but not living there would. An exchange of minority populations between the two countries was proposed. If Poland accepted these terms, Germany would agree to the British offer of an international guarantee, which would include the Soviet Union. A Polish plenipotentiary, with full powers, was to arrive in Berlin and accept these terms by noon the next day.”

    Poland also was willing to negotiate, but Hitler deemed all Polish counterproposals as “unreasonable”

    “We have given the German Reich all railway facilities,

    GERMAN-POLISH DISCUSSIONS 41

    we have allowed its citizens to travel without customs or passport formalities from the Reich to East Prussia. We have suggested the extension of similar facilities to road traffic.

    22. And here again the question arises-what is the real object of it all?

    23. We have no interest in obstructing German citizens in their communication with their eastern province. But we have, on the other hand, no reason whatever to restrict our sovereignty on our own territory.”

  101. @jacques sheete

    The truth is consistent, what Bella Fromm describes as anti jewish measures is corrobated by many other books.
    Such as
    Helmut Krausnick : Judenverfolgung, 1965, 1967, München
    Victor Klemperer, ‘I will bear witness, A diary of the Nazi years, 1942-1945’, New York 1999
    Saul Friedländer, ‘Nazi Germany & the Jews, The Years of Persecution 1933-39’, London, 1997

    Why do you think many jews fled to France or the Netherlands ?
    For fun ?
    The Netherlands had so many asjenazi jews as refugees that the assimilated Dutch sephardic jews became antisemites:
    Regina Grüters, ‘Een fantast schrijft geschiedenis, De affaires rond FRIEDRICH WEINBERG’, Netherlands, 1997

    Weinberg was an asjkenazi rabbi, fled from Germany.
    He became notorious after the war, he was condemned to a prison sentence after the war for collaboration with the Germans, letting himself paid by jews to prevent deportation, he influenced nothing, and spying in jail on fellow prisoners for the Germans.
    Dutch jewry saw him as a hero, he resisted the Germans.
    The controversy went on in Dutch journals into the eighties.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  102. iffen says:
    @jilles dykstra

    That was all he wanted.

    ROFLMAO

  103. szopen says:
    @jilles dykstra

    You can read there a Polish response to German demands and then tell me whether those response was unreasonable and hostile.

    http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/bb/bb-042.html

    And, BTW, before complaining about discrimination of Germans in Poland (which is true to some extent) you should also read something about discrimination of Poles in Germany (which somehow never comes in a discussion)

  104. snag says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    I beg your pardon but there’s no such a thing like ‘Polish Jews’ and never was. no one invited them there they’re Jewish invaders and squatters that never assimilated. Prior to WWII 3/4 of them couldn’t communicate in Polish, 9/10 in writing. They didn’t serve, didn’t obey Polish law or pay taxes, they were nothing but drag on the rest of society.

    On the top of that they never failed to stab in the back native Poles every time there was an aggressor at the border. That was the case during partition of Poland and during the German an Russian occupation in 1939. Born to stab, scam, snitch … for profit.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  105. iffen says:
    @szopen

    Is there a definitive account of Pilsudski?

    • Replies: @szopen
  106. j2 says:
    @Michael Kenny

    I may be wrong, but I think is is something like this. Blocks of flats were never nationalized and houses in city centers very often belonged to Jews. After Communism, Poland has given blocks of flats to the descendants of the owners who died or disappeared in the war. There is a condition that the new owner must live in Poland, thus American Jews cannot claim this property yet. Factories, houses of owners of factories, and such were nationalized, but not blocks of flats, houses and so on. The blocks were in poor condition after Communism. People living in flats could purchase them soon after Commune. I do not know if restoring the ownership of the block changes the state of purchased flats, probably not. Those who did not purchase the flats at that time? I do not know what with them.

    The holocaust law problem is artificial and the real reason is somewhere else. The new Polish law does not limit freedom of speech. Holocaust denial laws limit research of history. Fifty years ago there was an episode when Jews were thought to have taken over that country, another ZOG, but they were ousted. It is called a period of anti-Semitism. Maybe it explains Jewish attitudes towards Poland. A country got off the loop, not good. But I think you maybe correct, it may be an economic issue, yet another attempt to benefit on holocaust, but maybe the time for that story is running out.

  107. Wally says:
    @szopen

    recited:
    “Hmmm so, according to you, why before the war Poland had 3 million Jewish citizens, and after war 100.000?”

    Who said that? Not me.

    It is you who says they went to enormous & known mass graves. So why can’t you show us the alleged huge Jew remains?

    Tell us how the alleged, laughable, but impossible ‘gas chambers’ worked.

    You predictably dodged these questions:

    - If some are so sure that millions of Jews were murdered, then why do they ask such dumb questions like “what happened to them then?

    After all, Jews say ’6M Jews & 5M others’ went to huge mass graves, Jews claim to know the exact locations of these alleged enormous mass graves, yet Jews can show us nothing of the kind.

    - If there was ‘a plan to kill every Jew the Germans could get their hands on’ as alleged, then why are there countless numbers of so called “survivor$”?

    - If the alleged ‘holocaust’ was fact, then why are there laws in Europe to prevent scrutiny of it? What kind of “truth” needs to imprison people to prevent free speech?

    Must reads here:
    Holocaust Handbooks, Documentaries, & Videos: http://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?main_page=1
    Probing the Holocaust, pt. 1 https://codoh.com/library/document/4056/?lang=en
    and:
    Chemistry of Auschwitz / Birkenau

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @szopen
    , @polskijoe
  108. Tyrion 2 says:
    @iffen

    I’m not doxing him. It is more than public information. I am merely connecting the dots. His postings here can’t possibly lower this self-admitted American Nazi in the public’s esteem. Nothing is below 0 Kelvin. Can’t he get over himself enough to realise the entirely pointless harm this senile old fool is doing? What a tit…

  109. Wally says:
    @snag

    Indeed, the impossible ‘gas chambers’ are pure fiction.

    said:
    “For Russian prisoners of war it was a death camp.”

    No it wasn’t, you have no proof. Regardless of the “fishing partner’s” tall tale.
    Again, another “survivor” of an alleged “death camp”. Hardly credible.
    A lot of people say things / lie, just research witchcraft.

    Thanks.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @snag
  110. @snag

    Please (re)read the quote from Applebaum.

    Whatever jewish crimes there may have been, there is little doubt that what Gross describes is true.

    It is the same with Lithuania, how bad the economic exploitation of Lithuanians may have been, does that alter the fact of the large scale executions by Lithuanianss of jews ?
    Do you think the pictures a beating jews to death in
    Christopher R. Browning, ‘Ordinary Men, Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland’, 1992, 2001, London
    are fake ?
    This is, of course possible, but the beating fits in what happened in Lithuania, and the fact that even a few years after 2000 Lithuanians refused to talk about what happened to their jews.

    And it fits what was said in the Lithuanian parliament about the restauration of the ghetto.
    A remarkably small area, I saw it, with as peculiar feature some floors about a metre below street level.
    I suppose there was a maximum height for religious buildings, so in order to create more height inside the floor was sunk.

    • Replies: @snag
    , @snag
  111. @polskijoe

    It wouldn’t surprise me that Stalin’s death tolls are exaggerated, but by comparison Hitler’s are pure fabrication.

  112. @jacques sheete

    It is quite possible that the murder of the German diplomat in Paris was planned as a provocation.
    If it was, Goebbels took the bait
    The Kristallnacht was splendid propaganda against Hitler Germany.
    René d’Argile, etc., Das Geheimnis um die Ursachen des Zweiten Weltkrieges, Wiesbaden 1958 ( Les Origines Secrêtes de la Guerre 1939 – 1945, Paris 1958).

  113. szopen says:
    @iffen

    “definitive”? I do not think so. I am no historian, mind you; but I have read both many popular histories and historical monographies of the period and I have an impression, that there are many people trying to portrait him as some kind of impeccable hero, while many others try to portrait him as a brute who just got lucky.

  114. szopen says:
    @Wally

    Since in previous discussions of Holocaust deniers I have already provided links to articles discussing the locations of few mass graves, and the predictable reaction was ignoring them, why I should waste my time on you? I only asked one question, just how do you explain that so many Jews dissapeared. I already know that your kind dismisses relations from Polish government, Polish witnesses and so on.

    So I won’t discuss any of this. I repeat, I just want to know: what do you think happened to those three millions of Polish Jews?

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  115. Tyrion 2 says:
    @jacques sheete

    Jews get blamed for not having a state pre-1945. Jews get blamed for having a state post-1948. Maybe there really is something to this chosen people/tears of history sort of interpretation.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  116. @szopen

    None of those mass graves hold anything like the millions claimed.

    • Replies: @szopen
    , @Jonathan Revusky
  117. snag says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Spare me your ‘sources’, please* – So what that there was coal and if it was what good would it do without rail system and the means to deliver it to its destination. Try to use some logic in your statements – When Auschwitz (1940) was build Birkenau (1942) the Germans were winning everywhere they went and didn’t have any fuel supply problems.

    *Wiesel and his daughter became multi millionaires by whining and pointing a finger. There’re too many inconsistencies in his war time days to take him seriously.

    “The most strange thing about “Elie Wiesel” is that he speaks English with a Serbian accent and cannot speak Hungarian. The real Wiesel was supposed to have come from a Hungarian speaking part of Romania. On the internet there is an entry card for “Elie Wiesel” from the Yugoslavian embassy in Paris, for when he entered France from Yugoslavia in 1954. While it shows his photo, it does not show his real name, which must be something Serbian. It is unlikely he is a Jew as he looks much more like a Serb. It seems the reason he came to France was to pose as Elie Wiesel when the French author Mauriac wrote Elie Wiesel’s “Night”, adapted from the real Wiesel’s Yiddish book “un di welt hot geschwigen”.

    Here’s another one.

    http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v21/v21n1p15_okeefe.html

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  118. @szopen
    You are wasting your time in discussions with these people, but for your own curiosity, this memoir provides a part of the answer: https://www.amazon.com/Death-Brigade-Janowska-Road/dp/0896040003.

  119. @Max Denken

    It’s useless to argue with religious fanatics…

    Does that include fake monotheists, rabid JINOs, deranged rabbis, and “ethno”-fanatics such as the Izzy first crowd?

    How do we deal with the likes of this creature and its supporters?

    “Goyim were born only to serve us. Without that, they have no place in the world – only to serve the People of Israel.”
    Why are gentiles needed? They will work, they will plow, they will reap. We will sit like an effendi and eat.”According to Yosef, death has “no dominion” over non-Jews in Israel.
    “Hate the Gentile!” Israel’s Racist Rabbis, by JONATHAN COOK

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2010/12/10/israel-s-racist-rabbis/

    What about one of the chief agitators for war, “rabbi” Stephen Wise, an intimate of FDR, the Red? What are we to think?

    • Replies: @Max Denken
  120. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @jacques sheete

    This stuff is so obvious that a dumb goy like myself

    It’s obvious to Zionist Jews like Tyrion 2 too, but they’re the chosen ones, so in their view there’s no moral equivalence between what they do and what the cattle do.

  121. @jilles dykstra

    Why do you think many jews fled to France or the Netherlands ?
    For fun ?

    Fun possibly; drama, likely.

    I think because some were Marxists and the heat was on. Plus many were undoubtedly scared out of their wits by the Zionists who used terror as an “incentive” to motivate emigration to Palestine. Others probably just didn’t want to be around when the war started, especially since it was inevitable that the Soviets would come. Is it not true that many people, Jews included fled to the Germans at the approach of the Soviet barbarians? Some, like your Glamour Girl tabloidist, thought there would be greener pastures in the USA or France or whereever; it was a common idea among many folks.

    No doubt there were other reasons.

    The truth is consistent, what Bella Fromm describes as anti jewish measures is corrobated by many other books.

    Why did she hob nob with the Nazis for 5 years before she decided to exit? She seems to have had quite the time cavorting with Nazis for a while. What changed?

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  122. szopen says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Sure, I’ve heard that already. “There are no mass graves!” SObibór mass graves discovered? “No, they are not mass graves, because there were no human remains there”. But there are fragments of human bones found there? “No, they aren’t, and besides, no way they could fit burned remains of 120-250k people in those seven graves”. What about graves recently discovered in Treblinka? They are too small. And that’s pretty much the discussion about any mass grave and any evidence.

    http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/

  123. Z-man says:
    @jacques sheete

    It seems pretty obvious that the Zionist State of Israel is the worst anti-Semitic and anti-Jew entity that ever existed. They’ve made a mockery of all that Jews claim to stand for, and to add insult to injury, the schmucks are mostly non-Semite, but Eastern European rejects!

    Well said.

  124. snag says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Listen, even if there were excesses in eastern Poland, Ukraine, Lithuania, Estonia, Belarus, Latvia they took place after years of Soviet brutal occupation and in case of Poland after Soviets left running from Germans IT WAS A PAYBACK for Jewish collaboration with Soviet occupant. They welcomed invading Red Army with flowers and lists of potential resistance leaders, later they provided lists with the names deportees to Siberia where hundreds of thousands Poles periched in gulags. They did the same thing welcoming Germans ,…

    You have to remember that WWII started in September ’39, Wannsee Conference and persecution of Jews only after Wannsee Conference in early ’42 First transports of Jews to Birkenau started in the middle of ’42, before that they were treated better in occupied Poland than Poles.

    Auschwitz was build for Poles and according to my father’s friend the only Jews in Auschwitz were the Jewish criminals and mostly as kapos not prisoners.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @jilles dykstra
  125. A very good, almost encyclopedic article. Just a few rambling thoughts …

    1. Jewish Polonophobia still exists. For various cultural & historical reasons eastern Jews had much more assimilated to German & Russian cultures (especially German). Among Polish Jews some were against Polish independence (Rosa Luxembourg), while others were for (Feliks Perl).

    2. anti-Catholicism. In their relation to versions of Christianity, especially Western, Jews are much more at ease with Protestantism (especially Calvinism), while Catholicism is both too supernatural/alien for them & loaded with real & imagined historical burden (Crusades, Inquisition,..). Because Poland is Catholic, so …

    3. this media hysteria is mostly Israel-US-UK-Germany orchestrated. Having in mind Jewish influence in American media, I think it is a combination of at least two elements: whipping up Jewish victimological narrative into frenzied mania (a good focus for tribal emotional circling the wagons), while more importantly, media warfare against stubborn central & east European countries of Marianist tradition (Poland, Czechia, Hungary, Slovakia) that openly dismiss Western European suicidal policy of mass immigration of Africans & Muslims.

  126. polskijoe says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Germany alone lost 8% (no where near 25% percent).

    Including Austria, and Germans outside Germany: losses = 9%

    (in both posts losses I refer to dead and missing).

    Im wondering what BS source you are using? Rense? Liberty Lobby? IHR?

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  127. Jews?

    I don’t give a shit.

    The Jews are destroyers and their day of reckoning is coming.

    They have targeted the European peoples for destruction and they shall reap what they sow.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  128. snag says:
    @jilles dykstra

    That 1600 turned to 300 according to researchers and the place (Jedwabne in Grosses’ book) is the only mass murder place in Europe where some rebbe decided to intervene and stop excavation after they discover German made ammunition where they died.

    Gross’s story is digestible for western ignorants not for the folks that have some co-existence experience with Jews. Practically there’s no nation in Europe that didn’t suffer because of their evil ideas and conduct … not one. Take good look in the mirror and do some soul searching before you point your finger at anyone.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  129. Ex-Saffer says:

    Speaking of “righteous Gentiles,” a matter concerning them has been gnawing at me. Have any of the Gentiles who risked their necks for Jews ever been given a share in the reparations that have been extracted from Germany? I am thinking optimistically that some small part of the vast apparatus dedicated to disbursing the money might have shared some of the largesse with the many farmers and factory-owners who hid Jews. Or did these courageous people merely get a pat on the head?

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  130. @Beefcake the Mighty

    None of those mass graves hold anything like the millions claimed.

    It is my understanding that current-day forensic science is so fine-tuned that, if you had even the smallest bit of human remains of somebody who was killed by Zyklon B gassing, the cause of death would be verifiable, even now, decades later. Millions of people were allegedly murdered with this poison gas and I have never heard of any fragment of a bone or tooth or lock of hair of any gassing victim ever being presented.

    Also, as far as I know, while there are various people who claim to have witnessed these mass gassings, none of these people have ever described a realistic protocol for gassing a large number of people to death and then removing the bodies and then disposing of them — by that, I mean, a procedure that is even remotely feasible technically. I am pretty certain that any aggressive cross-examination of these eyewitnesses would reveal them to be liars. (Or “would have”, since it is no longer possible, since they are all dead by now. Or at least I assume they are…)

    So, my current view is that any objective critical thinker, based on these sorts of basic facts, would realize that the gas chamber part of the story is simply untrue. It simply cannot withstand any critical analysis. The only reason to believe it is if one has a strong emotional need to believe the story. Hence the need to establish this as something akin to a religion.

    All that said, I have to admit that I believed the gas chamber story for most of my life, since I never subjected it to any critical analysis and had always ignored the revisionist literature. I trusted the mainstream portrayal of these people as just cranks. Once I decided to read some of the revisionist literature with an open mind, I quickly realized that they were basically telling the truth.

    So it is only recently that I have come to understand just how absurd most of the canonical Holocaust narrative really is. This was quite disturbing, but it was also liberating, because I came to realize how mentally oppressive all this Holocaustianity sacred narrative really is. But, more importantly, along with some other things (like JFK and 9/11…) it provided a very basic lesson. It’s about understanding the difference between storytelling and real, established facts, which is what critical thinking is really about.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
    , @CanSpeccy
  131. polskijoe says:
    @Max Denken

    Hitler lovers and pro Nazi revisionists are annoying as hell. They can enjoy their diversity and liberalism. It was their policies which destroyed much of Europe resulting in Liberalism and Zionism winning.

    Ukrainian Nationalists and Nazi larpers like to claim 10-14 million Ukrainians died.

    Yet most expperts have agreed directly 3-5 million Ukrainian starved.. and a couple million more Russians/Khazaks/Caucasians/etc. It was known as Soviet famine. Holodomar refers to Ukrainians.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1932%E2%80%9333

    (wikipedia is biased and sometimes wrong, but its superior to any Nazi crap).

    Now when some Nazi mass murdering, raping, genociding, evils were busy shooting people for being untermenschen, bombing cities, and sending them to death camps then obviously they are too blame.

    Honestly I have even heard some larpers even claim Kalergi was a Jew, Stalin was a Jew, etc.
    (Kalergi was Japan-Euro hybrid) and Stalin was Georgian (Djugasvili does NOT mean son of a Jew).

    I dislike organized Jewry, but I will never side with Liberty Lobby, revisionist, genocide deniers.

    Germany has been attacking Slavic lands for 1000 years. Teutonic Knights, antiPolish scum
    like Bismarck (also antiCatholic), Hitler (also antiCatholic), Fredrick the “great”, etc.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  132. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Maple Curtain

    Watch out mate, or Tyrion 2 will call you an anti-Semite, then where will you be? In deep shit, that’s where.

  133. @Tyrion 2

    Jews get blamed for not having a state pre-1945. Jews get blamed for having a state post-1948.

    Oh, c’mon, Tyrion! This is an unfair fight; a dumb goy vs a very intelligent and knowledgeable “Jew,” but please, I’m not exactly that dense and neither are you.

    I never heard that Jews get blamed for not having a state, so details, please.

    Jews do not get blamed for having a state post 1948. They already had states and as you know, many Jews considered themselves Germans pre-1948 and post as well. Besides, the USA was home to many Jews. New York City has long been their de facto state.

    You and I, dumb goy that I am, know that the State of Israel is not despised because it’s a Jewish state, (I believe it’s a Zionist, not a Jewish one, btw, but that’s another story), but it’s despised for the terrorist methods used to gain the land, the ongoing oppression and sadistic, unnecessary violence waged against Palestinians, and the fact that Israel and Izzy sympathizers have a death grip on the media, on schooling, on our foreign and domestic policies, and on our government to say nothing of the dollars wrung out of the most bankrupt nation on Earth.

    I happen to be a very sensitive individual, so I react badly to attempted bullshitting… :)

    • Agree: Z-man
    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
  134. @Jonathan Revusky

    So it is only recently that I have come to understand just how absurd most of the canonical Holocaust narrative really is.

    Take any bit of recent “history,” or other canonical narrative, subject it to a similar degree of scrutiny, and you’ll find that most of it is pure, highly adulterated, bull droppings. Most of what we’ve been taught stinks as bad as our politicians and international bankers do.

    Frauds-R-USA.

  135. @Ex-Saffer

    Or did these courageous people merely get a pat on the head?

    Typically useful idiots get tossed under the bus as soon as their usefulness is done. The gullible Izzy-first crew is likely to find that out relatively soon.

    They don’t need to look for any sympathy from me.

  136. Wally says:
    @szopen

    What “mass graves recently discovered at Treblinka” /Sobibor?
    Show us what was found.

    In fact, I”ll spare you the trouble. Everyone observe and learn.
    remember:
    - claimed ’900,000 Jews buried at Treblinka’
    - claimed ’250,000 Jews buried at Sobibor’

    Alleged mass grave for 900,000 at Treblinka:Only these 6 skeletons from an admitted transit site that once move hundreds of thousands of people through, although Jews claim that 250,000 Jews are buried at this site, Sobibor.

    Of those measly few we have no idea:
    1. that they are Jews
    2. that they were actually murdered by the Germans and did not die of natural causes
    3. that they can be dated to the WWII era
    No lab analysis was permitted.
    These stones said to be remains of 250,000 jews
    No lab analysis was permitted.

    That’s what they found. This is The Big Lie aka: the ‘holocau$t’

    much more info.:

    https://codoh.com/search/?sorting=relevance&q=treblinka+sturdy

    and:

    https://codoh.com/search/?sorting=relevance&q=haimi+sobibor

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @anarchyst
    , @szopen
  137. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Jonathan Revusky

    So it is only recently that I have come to understand just how absurd most of the canonical Holocaust narrative really is.

    Millions of Jews surely suffered and many died by the hand of Nazis. But so did millions of other people, about whom we hear much less.

    Jewish insistence on the uniqueness of the crime of the Jewish Holocaust is the natural consequence of Jewish racism and supremacism. It is also a manifestation of Jewish hypocrisy, genocide being a standard tool of Jewish policy, past and present:

    And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain. Deuteronomy 2:34

    And we utterly destroyed them, … utterly destroying the men, women, and children, of every city. Deuteronomy 3:6

    And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them. Deuteronomy 7:2

    And thou shalt consume all the people which the LORD thy God shall deliver thee; thine eye shall have no pity upon them. Deuteronomy 7:16

    Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword. Deuteronomy 13:15

    But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth. Deuteronomy 20:16-17

    And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword. Joshua 6:21

    So smote all the country … he left none remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the LORD God of Israel commanded. Joshua 10:40

    Thus saith the LORD of hosts … go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass. 1 Samuel 15:2-3

  138. polskijoe says:
    @DESERT FOX

    The figures are a complete lie. I dont fall for low iq nonsense.

    I have read Solzehnitsyn and Rummels studies. And many many more.

    Solhentsyn (who I respect) had no clue about the numbers though.

    Lets talk about Robert Conquest then and see how smart you are:

    The Harvest of Sorrow… Conquest said he didnt have enough sources to confirm his findings.

    In Great Terror book he suggested 20 million-30.
    Robert Conquest later changed his estimate to ~15 million to 20 million.

    US exagerated estimates for political purposes and ignorance.

    Want more facts?

    Jews were in high numbers during the Bolshevik times up (in the top leadership). Each decade later their numbers dropped and influence dropped. Which is why most Jews with Commie sympathy today support Trotsky and Lenin, not Stalin.

    I admit that many Gulag leaders during the 1930s were Jews. and Cheka.

    Either way

    • Replies: @DESERT FOX
    , @annamaria
  139. @szopen

    You’ve heard much, but apparently learned very little.

  140. Wally says:
    @snag

    You’re just making stuff up as you go. Empty bar talk.

    Here’s the facts about the “Wannsee Conference”:

    The Wannsee Conference Protocol, Anatomy of a Fabrication:

    http://codoh.com/library/document/934/

    Auschwitz: A Judge Looks at the Evidence:

    http://codoh.com/library/document/230/

    Wannsee Conference minutes debunked:

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1647

    http://www.codoh.com

  141. @utu

    What is the source for this stand-down order? I know some Polish commanders initially did not oppose Soviet troops because they assumed they were coming to fight the Germans, but this was battlefield confusion, etc. Do you mean to say the Polish government told troops in the east to simply run and live to fight another day?

  142. polskijoe says:
    @Wally

    [quote]- If there was ‘a plan to kill every Jew the Germans could get their hands on’ as alleged, then why are there countless numbers of so called “survivor$”?\ [/quote]

    primitive question.

    because people find ways to escape, because people helped Jews, because many survived in camps and were released after the war.

    once the Nazi mass murderers getting destroyed by Slavics, they didnt have time finish their job.

    [quote]After all, Jews say ’6M Jews & 5M others’ went to huge mass graves, Jews claim to know the exact locations of these alleged enormous mass graves, yet Jews can show us nothing of the kind. [/quote]

    who cares what “Jews claim” (I doubt most of them claim that).

    3 million Poles were slaughtered
    4 million Ukrainians
    2 million Belarussians
    Even more Russians.

    Heck all credible estimates like at least 6 milion in Poland died, and 23-27 million in SU.

    You might convince 80-90 iqs of your bs. But it doesnt work on most normal people.

    Nazis at least had some intellgiene (though evil),
    while neonazis have double digit iqs.

  143. @snag

    Laughing.

    Well,

    you’ll have to take that up with Poland. Apparently, the Poland recognizes that their citizens are comprised on christians, atheist, muslims, doaists and jews. In other words, if Poland does not limit being polish to any particular faith — I am not in a position to challenge them . And if I were in said position —

    I wouldn’t.

    • Replies: @snag
  144. AaronB says:

    Well, when Jews lost their state in Roman times they had three options. Assimilate, remain separate but keep a low profile like the Amish – don’t try and make tons of money and acquire power – or remain separate, and try and become powerful and wealthy and dominate your hosts.

    Jews choose option three, which guarantees strife. No one would mind Jews if they were a small community of pious worshippers like the Amish.

    The problem is that the Jews contract with God clearly states that God will make them rule over the nations, and grow rich and powerful. So it was never a realistic option that Jews would remain a community of inoffensive worshippers.

    A community of people that did not try and dominate and grow wealthy would not – could not – be Jewish, whatever it may be.

    Unlike Christianity, Judaism isn’t really defined by beliefs – there is no creed one must affirm. Judaism is an attitude towards life, an agenda, a program, a contract with God.

    Speaking to my religious Jewish friends I am more and more impressed with the seeming absence of a core of beliefs. For every opinion expressed by a rabbi, there is an opposing equally authoritative one.

    What matters is practice – practice the laws and rituals, and God will make you rulers over others and wealthy. Your flocks and your children shall multiply and the nation’s will bow down before you. That’s the deal. You can believe what you want.

    When Jews try and reconvert lapsed Jews back into the faith, they say you can believe whatever you want just start practicing the rituals. When Christians try and convert others they give you a list of things to believe in. Believe them, and you’re a Christian.

    Nothing is easier than to create doubt, and if you have beliefs you have to defend them. But if someone makes you doubt them, then your world is gone.

    But if your world never depended on beliefs, but on practices, attitudes towards life, you’re not so vulnerable. People can say what they want. What are they chipping away at exactly? Your life is based on an agenda with a contract at its center. Either the agenda is fulfilled, or it isn’t. What’s to argue about?

    Among the great civilizations, Christianity with its dependence on beliefs was uniquely vulnerable. If you could undermine Christian beliefs, you could create total confusion.

    Asians don’t have beliefs either, but just an attitude towards life and a set of practices. That’s why they are relatively unaffected by the belief based stupidities coming put of the West.

    If you do something because it’s “right”, then if I can convince you it isn’t right – not so difficult, as we can never really be sure – then you’ll lose your motivation to do it.

    But what if you do something because it leads to success or flourishing or is intrinsically satisfying? In that case, you can’t make me lose motivation by chipping away at my beliefs. Either an action leads to success or it doesn’t, either it’s satisfying or it isn’t.

    It is justified – or not – in itself, not in reference to something else.

    Christian emphasis on beliefs probably cane from Greek philosophy and is unique. Maybe it’s time to get rid of it.

    Do things not because of some belief but because it’s satisfying. It’s self justified, and no one can confuse you. The results are immediate.

    Or, like Jews, do things not because of beliefs but because they lead to certain goals, like power and wealth. That way, who can undermine you? You’re not doing anything because of some belief about the world that makes it “right”, which you can never be absolutely sure is true. Either that action leads to success, or not. At most, someone can challenge your tactics, but there is an easy way to test them. With beliefs, you can never test them, and doubt is easy to create in anyone. Doubt is at the center of the human condition. We can’t even prove that we exist, or that anything exists, or that causality is real. We are conducted to never be sure.

    Doubt is so easy to create, that Christians had to fight religious wars in order to suppress opposing opinions – so shaky were they in their own beliefs, and so threatened. By contrast, Islam fights only to subject you to the will of Allah – it too has a contract with God at its center, that the whole world will be subject to Islam in some way. That’s not a belief, that’s s goal, an agenda. How would you undermine that? You can’t.

    The strong person is not he who has strong beliefs but he who has replaced beliefs with goals, practices, and agendas – or who pursues intrinsically satisfying actions, that is, actions that give immediate pleasure and are not justified by a belief.

    Christian civilization had a weakness at its heart, and yet, the original message of Jesus was also not about a set of beliefs but a Way, a Path, a way to live that was immediately self-justifying in that it brought immense satisfaction, as love and self sacrifice are immediate pleasures that justify themselves – or not. But there is no room for doubt. It’s not a belief.

    Today the West still takes beliefs seriously – it thinks matter is real, the only real thing. Yet what we call matter is partly, maybe largely, a product of our own minds. There is a reality, but we can never know what it is. We can only see it through the distorting prism of our minds.

    It would be possible to once again undermine the Western belief in matter because all belief systems are vulnerable, but would that just be replaced by another belief, or would the West grow wise?

  145. polskijoe says:
    @Wally

    You like to troll and spam your fake website: so let me return the favor…

    Where is the proof millions of Germans died in WW2?

    Where are the bodies?

    Why do Germans send reperations to Jews, but not Poles or Russians or Greeks?
    Why did German collaborate with Zionists?
    Why did Germany send commies to Russia?
    Why Does Germany still attack Poland to this day?
    Why does Germany favor Muslims and Jews over Slavs?

    No name calling…

    sodoh.com

    • Replies: @Mulegino1
  146. Hmmmmmm . . .

    who to believe. I find a very tough sell for me to ell Germany and Poland that there was no holocaust in which Jews were primary targets when both

    Germany and Poland say there was.

    Collective dual state mass false confessions or acknowledgement –

    Maybe a coin toss.

    Excuse my potential heresy in either direction.

    • Replies: @Wally
  147. AaronB says:

    I was reading an essay by George Santayana in which he makes the arresting remark – for the Jews, it was not enough that they had a God. They wanted everyone else not to have a God. I found that so striking.

    That’s the origin of Jewish monotheism – everyone had a tribal God, but to make your tribal God the only God, and you his favourite people, is a special kind of egotism.

    This attitude can help explain a lot of what’s going on today. It isn’t enough for Jews to have an ethno-state, it has to be that no one else has one. It isn’t enough for Jews to have a Holocaust, no one else can have suffered.

    And it makes sense. If life, for you, is about keeping score, then you have “enough” only compared to how much the other guy has. You can’t just be happy that you’ve got something good and let other people have it also. That’s s different kind of attitude to life, the one that’s about pursuing intrinsically satisfying actions.

    But that’s not Jewish. From the get go, Judaism is the score keeping attitude – your flocks shall prosper and you will multiply and rule over the nations. Not – go live an intrinsically satisfying life. One imagines from the start the Hebrews were a tribe that could not feel happiness.

    Happiness seeking and score keeping (which is really just happiness deferred to the future) are opposite philosophies, and Nietszche, one of the great believers in the score keeping approach, scorned happiness.

    A good book by Santatana is Egotism In German Philosophy, in which he makes the remark that Germans got their gigantic egotism from Jews. This was before the Nazis, and I was surprised that people were making that connection even back then. The Nazis were really a culmination of a long tradition of German egotism and not a sudden irruption out of nowhere.

    • Replies: @Max Denken
    , @snag
  148. Art says:
    @Tyrion 2

    I’ve found you, you 70 year old crazy lunatic!

    Arthur Jones formerly of the American Nazi Party.

    Tyrion 2,

    Sorry – your are 100% wrong – I am not that person. I hate Hitler and Nazis.

    “Art” is a handle – not my actual name.

    I have never belonged to any party.

    Outside of comments – I have never been published.

    Think Peace — Art

    • Replies: @iffen
  149. Lex says:
    @Michael Kenny

    Szewach Weiss(former ambassador of Israel to Poland and Chairman of the Knesset) – so called “friend of Poland” – claims that Poland has to pay out at least 65 billion dollars to Jews because it is Poland’s moral obligation since Germans committed their crimes on Polish soil. I am not distorting his message in any way, that’s what he said.

    • Replies: @szopen
    , @Seraphim
  150. Paw says:
    @animalogic

    What is more , now there is one Holocaust too far. Hysteria used against Poland /very proud nation/ , must cover far worse holocaust , like in Bolshevik Russia.
    As usual the huge hysteria is suppose to be solutions and to cover , reasons why there are many centuries long hostilities against the jews. At the same time.
    Every Hysteria is to dominate others. Anyone with experience and contacts , living with them , can talk. But is not permitted.

  151. iffen says:
    @Art

    Outside of comments – I have never been published.

    Get real, Arts, no one, as in nobody here, believes this. :)

  152. Wally says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    Well, governments worldwide said that witchcraft was fact, courts proved it, there were “eyewitnesses”, “confessions”, & “documents” galore.

    But like the alleged ’6M Jews, 5M others & gas chambers’, there was / is no proof.

    You’re going through cognitive dissonance. You’ll be fine.
    All Revisionists are former Believers.

    And why do so many want ’6M Jews & 5M others’ to be dead?
    Jews in particular should be elated to know that 6M of their brethren were not murdered.

    http://www.codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  153. @AaronB

    Interesting point, but you have to resist making a continuity from some 3500 years ago to now. You are right about the unique fanaticism of the original Jewish religion, and one might throw in a couple genocides there as well. However –and that’s one of two ancient reasons why Jews are counted within the concept of Western civilization — they were the first to outlaw human sacrifice. The story of Abraham and Isaac is the mythical description of that. And the other reason is that Christianity is a direct descendant of that Judaism, though not of the rabbinical-Talmudic one that has superseded the old times’ religion for the Jews. And among the features of Judaism that have passed on to Christianity is that very fanaticism, going back to the third century and first codified in Nicea in 325 AD. Think wiping out whole groups of people, from old Saxons through the Prussians and other Northeast European pagan peoples, on to the Cathars, witches at the stake, Inquisition etc. The Roman state religion had had nothing of that fanaticism, that claim on an exclusive lock on the truth. So its’ no longer correct to ascribe the features you do to the Jewish religion alone. And don’t even get me started about Islam…

  154. anarchyst says:
    @Wally

    If a country were hell-bent on genocide, WHY WOULD IT KEEP RECORDS?? WHY would it build “camps” hundreds (if not thousands) of miles away with sanitary facilities, housing, medical, recreational and other ancillary facilities? Would it not have been easier to just “eliminate” them without going through all of this trouble? Why would they expend massive effort on logistical movement utilizing their limited energy resources if the goal was extermination? Things do not “add up”…

    Something BIG “stinks” in this whole jewish “holocaust ™” deal. It is no secret that jewish Zionists made “deals” with the German government in order to make life “uncomfortable” for jewish Germans. In fact, it was jewish Zionist leaders who first proposed that all jews wear the “yellow Star of David” armband so that they could be easily identified.

    The establishment of a “homeland” along with the 6,000,000 figure was a Zionist “dream” since the 1800s. What better way to encourage “emigration” to a foreign land than to make things difficult for the “cream of German society” (jews)?? The TRUTH about the so-called jewish “holocaust ™” is out . . .

    The so-called jewish “holocaust ™” has been turned into a de-facto “religion” in which no deviation from orthodoxy is permitted. In fact, in most European countries, independent investigation into jewish “holocaust ™” truths is strictly forbidden under pain of fines and imprisonment. In the USA, things are not quite as bad, only job loss and personal and professional destruction at the hands of those of the “tribe” that FEAR the real truth of the jewish “holocaust ™” being exposed is evident. TRUTH CANNOT BE USED AS A DEFENSE OR ENTERED INTO EVIDENCE IN THE “KANGAROO COURTS” THAT PROSECUTE THOSE WHO DARE TO INVESTIGATE THIS HISTORICAL EVENT. A question for you “holocaust ™” promoters–why are there laws that criminalize the search for truth??

    When the truth about this historical event comes out, it will change much of the world’s perception about those that are using this event as a “cash cow” that “keeps on giving”. . . “there’s NO business like “SHOAH business”.
    Jewish complicity in this event is carefully “covered up”.

    A good example of present-day censorship is the fate that awaits those that dare question “official” jewish “holocaust” orthodoxy. Most European countries have criminalized ANY line of thought that deviates from the “official” jewish “holocaust” story. WHY?? In fact, TRUTH is no defense when it comes to “all things holocaust”. Ask noted WW2 researcher David Irving, who was forced to recant TRUTH in order to avoid punishment. . .

    If people only knew of the planning that took place (among those of the “chosen”) to engineer the jewish “holocaust”, there would be a pogrom of massive size. You see, the jewish “holocaust” was necessary in order to force the establishment of a jewish state. In this case, the ENDS justified the MEANS. There have been many “holocausts” of much greater misery throughout human history, yet the jewish “holocaust” is the only one that counts . . .

    Look at the “commercialization of the so-called jewish “holocaust ™” while the much larger communist (true) holocaust is conveniently forgotten. To assure a continuing supply of jewish “holocaust ™” “survivors”, jews are tattooing their ATM (oops, I mean “camp” numbers) on their children and grandchildren. In addition, jewish psychologists have come up with a new concept, and “disease”–”holocaust ™ ” “transference syndrome. You see, children and grandchildren of jewish “holocaust ™” survivors are infected with this “disease” and should also be considered “holocaust ™” survivors, eligible for “holocaust ™” reparations”.

    Since the jews declared war on Germany in 1933 (yes, 1933), the Germans had no choice but to complete the Zionist plan of marginalizing German jews (to say the least).. This fulfilled the Zionist plan of forcing German jews to emigrate to Palestine while making the world grant jews a “homeland”–Israel. It is interesting to note that the German boycott of jewish businesses lasted for one day, whil the jewish boycott (actually the jews’ declaration of war on Germany) started in 1933 and lasted until the summation of WW2.

    Zionists have been predicting a jewish “homeland for the last two-hundred years while predicting a “holocaust ™” of 6 million for the same amount of time. The ACTUAL number of non-combatant deaths in the European theater of operations is approximately 731,000, NOT 6 million (official International Red Cross figures).

    Regarding that “holocaust ™” “showplace” Auschwitz, there are engineering inconsistencies in the design of the so-called “gas chambers”. The doors are not of a gas-tight design; it would have been impossible to retrieve the bodies, and there is no means to ventilate the rooms after the so-called “gassing” took place”. There is a “gas chamber” chimney that is not connected to anything. From an engineering standpoint, these are very serious errors that would have caused the deaths of the “operators” of these supposed “gas chambers”. As Germans were excellent engineers, it is difficult to observe the glaring engineering errors that presently exist in these “camps”.

    American execution expert, Fred Leuchter travelled to Auschwitz, surreptitiously obtained samples from the purported “gas chambers”, had them tested and published his results. The absence of methylene blue in ALL of the samples, save one, was PROOF that the “gas chambers” did not exist. The one positive sample was taken from a room used to disinfect clothing. In fact, the “chimney” for the supposed “gas chamber” does not connect to anything.

    Mr. Leuchter’s was rewarded for his search for TRUTH by his professional and personal character assassination by those of the “tribe”. He lost all of his federal and state contracts, and was prosecuted under an obscure Massachusetts “law” for “practicing engineering without a license”–a law which had never been used before or since. . .

    It is no secret that after WW2, the Soviets attempted to “create” the “death camps” for propaganda purposes. Yes, there was extreme deprivation and suffering–many people perished. The prime cause of death was typhus. As allied bombings destroyed most of the infrastructure, typhus was at epidemic levels. THIS is what caused the massive amounts of human deaths . . .NOT gassing.

    It is interesting to note that, before the camps were “liberated” by the “allies”, the camp occupants chose to flee with the German troops, rather than be “liberated” by the Russian “allies”.

    I urge those “holocaust ™” believers to check these things out for yourselves–IF YOU DARE. You will not like what you find…

    • Replies: @snag
    , @jilles dykstra
  155. Beckow says:
    @German_reader

    Well, it is relative. Britain dislikes a lot of other countries, so superficially you will also find anti-German expressions. (I once mentioned the term ‘Irish Express’ to a Brit – logistics company – and he promptly called it an oxymoron.) I am talking about the national policy – the stuff that comes out of British universities, media, government.

    The national policy (of both US and UK) is skewed towards Germany. They are in Nato together, so it is understandable. There has been quite a bit of well funded effort (books, lectures, etc…) to shift some of the blame for WWII from Germany, it is also always referred to as ‘Nazis’, not Germans.

    Whenever Germans show some independent thought, the WWII is used to bludgeon them back into obedience. But as long as they are loyal, the downplaying and relativisation continues. In general, British an American understanding of WWII is bizarrely false, but I don’t want to get into that – complex and long topic.

    • Replies: @iffen
  156. annamaria says:
    @polskijoe

    “Solhentsyn (who I respect) had no clue about the numbers though. The figures are a complete lie. I dont fall for low iq nonsense.”
    - Have you personally had an access to the Soviet archives? Or you believe that since the facts (FACTS, documented facts) are inconvenient for the Jews it is Ok to sequester a book/documentary created by a Noble Prize Laureate in Literature. Who are you to bad-mouth Solzhenitsyn who stood up courageously to the Soviet regime when people like you were opportunistically submissive? Guess, the innocence of your mind does not allow you to take a look at Solzhenitsyn book: https://www.sott.net/article/271904-Solzhenitsyn-Banned-all-over-again http://truedemocracyparty.net/2012/05/most-banned-book-in-the-world-200-years-together-aleksandr-solzhenitsyn/
    — Too much against what your rabbi preaches on Saturdays, polskijoe?

    • Replies: @polskijoe
  157. Tyrion 2 says:
    @jacques sheete

    All those criticisms apply to Israel’s neighbours in the Middle East many times more.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
    , @annamaria
  158. @jacques sheete

    As you could infer from the essay above, I am hardly an apologist for the Jewish view of the world. And I can quote the items you mentioned, and raise you some. Yet you cannot trace these people with your brush and than pass that brush over the entire Jewish people, throughout their entire history at that. Also, no critique of Jews, even the harshest, excuses pitiful attempts to rewrite history, to make Hitler into the good guy and the Third Reich into an innocent victim of Jewish perfidy. That is even more insane than the rabbis’ quotes.

    History is complex. There is no black and white. Deal with it honestly, in the JQ area too.

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @jacques sheete
  159. All those criticisms apply to Israel’s neighbours in the Middle East many times more.

    Please, dear sir, I already appealed to to your kindliness:

    I happen to be a very sensitive individual, so I react badly to attempted bullshitting

    Do you have any idea how bad it hurts to be the butt of attempted condescension?

    Besides, I thought the Izzies were special and chosen to be above all that. Would a super race really stoop to such behavior? Why?

  160. @polskijoe

    Hitler lovers and pro Nazi revisionists are annoying as hell.

    Hitler lovers make more sense than the Bolshie lovers (e.g., Stalin lovers) and the FDR and Churchill lovers, neither of whom had a dog in the fight.

    There would have been no Nazi movement if there had been no Wall Street financed Bolshie Revolution. Hitler was long on the defensive while the US and Great Britain never were threatened by any stretch of the imagination. So…it’s perfectly plain to see that FDR and Churchill were much worse than Hitler, and Stalin had been raising Hell long before Hitler came to power, so who’s worse there? I do admire Stalin for exterminating a lot of the old Bolshies and for letting Hitler circumvent parts of the Versailles Treaty by allowing the German military to train in the USSR. Still, Stalin was worse than Hitler by any measure, but better than the two amoral aristocrat dandy criminals, FDR and Churchill.

    So you FDR and Churchill lovers are not only annoying but as criminal as they and their money bag backers were.

    They can enjoy their diversity and liberalism. It was their policies which destroyed much of Europe resulting in Liberalism and Zionism winning.

    Nah, he who has the gold has the power. The New Yoik and London international bankers had the gold and were calling the shots. They were the main winners. It was they who destroyed Europe, and stunk up the US in the process, and they’re still doing it.

    • Agree: Carroll Price
    • Disagree: polskijoe
  161. snag says:
    @anarchyst

    Remember those famous lampshades of human skin in Stutthof, or soap of jewish flesh … No evidence Crap. I remember a sign 4 million gassed in Birkenau today is 900.000 and slipping down.

    Yad Vashem have a list of 3 million victims of German persecution with some names counted twice that means more than 3 million are MIA – In 2007 Germans opened their (meticulous) archives for scholars to study, the list in Yad Vashem haven’t changed and for what I know there’s no interest on their side to start digging and prove that they’re right and the rest of us who dare to contest that 6 millions their are wrong.

    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome
  162. iffen says:
    @Beckow

    it is also always referred to as ‘Nazis’, not Germans.

    Like people are always saying Bolsheviks, commies, Soviets, etc. rather than …

    • Replies: @Beckow
  163. It isn’t too hard to figure out, just look at what they’re doing to America, with the help of traitors and dual citizens, slowly turning America into Palestine. Yeah, we’ve noticed the police state creep. Taking away our rights.
    Look at what they’re doing everywhere they can slither in, death, poverty and destruction follow, those AIPAC rallies don’t help, that just tells all Americans, EXACTLY who is pulling the strings, so we know exactly who to blame, no doubt about it.
    and controlling the Federal Reserve, Wall St., MIC… America has been going down fast since the creation of Israel, so its not too hard to connect the dots.
    Its pretty clear 9/11 was another Israeli/CIA/MIC job, just like USS Liberty and many others, Israels entire history has been built on lies, false flags, genocide, ethnic cleansing, hatred of everything..
    Keep calling us names though, that’ll work. I will admit, you had a lot of folks fooled for a long time, but the mass murder of Christians in Iraq, Syria have woken even the dumbest up. You idiots had it so nice for a long time, leeching off everyone else, the end of all that is near. Trust me. You’re a fish out of water now. No going back.

  164. AaronB says:
    @Max Denken

    Sure, but there’s also some level of continuity, and Talmudism clearly is a continuation of certain strands on the Old Testament.

    The way I see it, Old Testament Judaism towards the end reached a level of wisdom found among the Greeks and Indians. Some of the prophets, and Kohelet and the other wisdom books, transcend the old Jewish egotism and materialism.

    Talmudism revived the pure egotistical strain and adapted it to the exile and it’s new challenges.

    Were Jews the first to abolish human sacrifice? The Bible as we have it now was compiled, I think, around the 8th or 7th centuries BC, after the Babylonian exile. Were Egyptians, Zoroastrians, Hindus, Mycebaeans, practicing human sacrifice so late?

    I’m not sure, but I don’t think so. But if they were, I’m happy to give them credit for it.

    And you’re right, many unpleasant and objectionable Jewish elements bled into Christianity – even the pernicious notion of a chosen people, a New Israel – and the protestants revived the Jewish strain in a serious way.

    The Spanish extermination of entire higher civilizations is very much in the Jewish spirit also.

    Unfortunately, I regard Christianity as irredeemably tainted, although I deeply admire the original message of Jesus Christ, which I regard as essentially Indian wisdom.

    Islam also has a serious egotistical side, but the Sufi strain redeems it, and even mainstream Islam has attractive features.

    I’m certainly not suggesting egotism is to be found only in Judaism – far from it. Egotism is a human perennial, and creeps in everywhere. I merely think Judaism is the purest expression of egotism that the world has yet seen. But if Judaism vanished tomorrow, some philosophy just like it would have to arise. Pure egotism is one possible position in the spectrum of positions, and many people will always be found who will fill that niche.

    Just like the poor will always be with us, as Jesus said, so will egotism. It’s almost accidental that a people called “Jews ” are the ones filling that niche in actuality.

  165. @Tyrion 2

    All those criticisms apply to Israel’s neighbours in the Middle East many times more.

    Did you miss these, or do you really believe that these criticisms apply to Israel’s neighbours in the Middle East many times more?

    … have a death grip on the media, on schooling, on our foreign and domestic policies, and on our government to say nothing of the dollars wrung out of the most bankrupt nation on Earth.

    Can you name any?

    Man, I’m learning a lot of kool stuff that I heretofore never dreamed of! Damn, yer good!

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
  166. iffen says:
    @Max Denken

    As you could infer from the essay above

    Such confidence in the commentariat is unwarranted.

    History is complex. There is no black and white.

    I live in Alabama and our history has been black and white for over two hundred years.

    BTW, excellent article. I don’t know what gets into R. Unz sometimes.

  167. @Max Denken

    History is complex. There is no black and white. Deal with it honestly, in the JQ area too.

    Maybe you should take your own advice.

    Most of the anti-Hitler rhetoric here is nothing but over the top Red propaganda and you have to know it.

    Do you have any idea of who financed all the bullshit that was going on a century ago?

    All this jaw- jaw about holocausts and what not annoys me to no end because none of it or the other finger pointing gets at the heart of the matter which is who was behind all of it.

    History is not always complex. There is no black and white. Deal with it honestly, and have the courage to ask questions and peek behind the curtain.

    History can be complex, but in this case it’s not as complex as it’s made out to be. Follow the Yellow Brick Road and peek behind the bushes along the way.

    Why, my fellow citizens, is there any man here or any woman, let me say is there any child here, who does not know that the seed of war in the modern world is industrial and commercial rivalry…and the reason why some nations went into the war against Germany was that they thought Germany would get the commercial advantage of them. The seed of the jealousy, the seed of the deep-seated hatred was hot, successful commercial and industrial rivalry…
    This war, in its inception was a commercial and industrial war. It was not a political war.

    -Woodrow Wilson, Address at the Coliseum in St. Louis, Missouri, September 5, 1919

    http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=117365

    On occasion even a rotten politician spills the beans. WW2 was, as Churchill said, both unnecessary, and an extension of WW1. Connect the dots.

    • Replies: @Wally
  168. Seraphim says:
    @Max Denken

    “And among the features of Judaism that have passed on to Christianity is that very fanaticism, going back to the third century and first codified in Nicea in 325 AD”.

    Es ist die Loslösung vom Denken (Undenken).
    Approximate English translation : bullshitting.

    • Replies: @Max Denken
  169. Mulegino1 says:
    @polskijoe

    I would say that there is indeed proof that hundreds of thousands of German, French and Italian civilians were indeed incinerated by the RAF and Allied air forces. They never made a secret about their intent and openly boasted about it in newsreels and their own propaganda publications. There is plenty of authentic video footage of Dresden burning- not to mention of the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

    Also, the Soviet propaganda- a la Ilya Ehrenburg- openly called upon the Red Army soldiers to kill Germans. Little distinction was made between civilians and members of the Wehrmacht. The mass rapes of German women by the Red Army were likewise well documented.

    The numbers of German victims may well be exaggerated, however.

    Free French General Juin did give free reign to the Moroccan troops to rape the women in the villages around Monte Cassino and this has not been forgotten to this day in Italy. This is another Allied war crime that has been glossed over, just like the sinking of the Wilhelm Gustloff, the Goya, and the Cape Arcona.

    On the other hand, there is no physical evidence that the Germans indiscriminately slaughtered Slavs and Jews and there is no authentic documentary foundation for this. The Germans even gave p.o.w. status to many of the members of the Polish Home Army captured after the suppression of the Warsaw Uprising. And one can judge for oneself whether the Polish p.o.w.’s at Dachau “liberated” by the US Army look mistreated or ill fed.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  170. @AaronB

    Kohelet

    How the heck did that make it into some versions of the bible? Was some editor drunk or something? It doesn’t seem to fit with most of the other stuff there, and though I’m no bible thumper, I re read it often. Love it! Fascinating stuff.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  171. @AaronB

    Human sacrifice is a whole different and very interesting subject. I am no expert, and if I were a PhD in cultural anthropology you could not trust me anyway, because there is hardly an area more tainted with Cultural Marxism than that one. But I’ll tell you what I think, based on sporadic reading in the subject.

    You area a little off about the date span of writing up the Bible; the Babylonian exile was in mid-6th century BC, and that’s the time when they started compiling the Talmud; the Books had already been written sometime before 1000 and 700 BC. But remember that Genesis and other such books were the writing up of oral history that was much more ancient, maybe 1500 – 1800 years older. So even though we have no proof that it’s factually true, the very fact that such tales had persisted for so long is proof that they contained a kernel of truth. One can use the same argument to claim with certainty that the historical Christ existed, even though we have no historical “proof.” The very fact that the Gospels were written — again, based on oral history — indicates that the power of that oral tradition was so great that it could not have been an invention.

    As to how long human sacrifice existed and when did it cease in the actual history of the ME, I don’t know without further study. But I can tell you that the early prophets in the Bible, i.e. before the Babylonian exile, are full of casting abomination on the goyim (an actual Biblical word) for their humans sacrifices, the cults of Baal and Ishtar etc., and warn the Israelites again and again not to relapse into those ways. And that’s to me an indication that humans sacrifice had been proscribed
    for Jews long before that practice ceased among the surrounding peoples. Not to mention the Celts, the Vikings, the proto-Slavs etc…

    • Replies: @AaronB
  172. iffen says:
    @Max Denken

    Jews are counted within the concept of Western civilization

    Who’s doing the counting?

    https://www.gnxp.com/WordPress/2018/03/06/on-the-semiotics-of-judeo-christian-as-a-misdirection/

  173. @Seraphim

    You are just depositing garbage on things you don’t like. Your quoting German indicates that you may read German. Read up on Arianism, on how the German warrior class was all-Arian, and how come Arianism ceased to exist. Once you have digested that, I can recommend further topics of study. For the beginner you are, I can recommend, in English, Philip Johnson’s “History of Christianity.” And do hold that elevated self esteem — Seraphim??? — in check.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  174. Dmitry says:
    @German_reader

    Germany is contemporarily so nice and concessionary to both Jews and Polish. That the only thing left is for them to attack each other.

  175. Beckow says:
    @iffen

    people are always saying Bolsheviks, commies, Soviets, etc. rather than …

    True, those damn Latvians…

    Today, finally clarity rules. No more euphemisms, it is the evil Russians all the way. I suppose, it is a kind of progress…

  176. Maryles’s article contains subjective assertions that could be challenged, but I’ll focus on just one that has the appearance of being more objective: “Except for the righteous gentiles among them, the Poles were perhaps the most eager participants of all nationalities in helping Nazis send Jews to the death camps of any other country. Just about every Polish Jew who survived the Holocaust–that I have ever spoken to–has made this claim.”

    Just about every Jew who survived the holocaust also made claims of seeing thousands of Jews killed in “gas chambers”. A claim that has since been proven false by independent investigators who found no evidence homicidal gas chambers existed at any of the work camps.

  177. Wally says:
    @jacques sheete

    A rare, righteous Jew speaks:

    “Revisionism has the general function of bringing historical truth to a public that had been drugged by wartime lies and propaganda.”

    Now revisionism teaches us that this entire myth, so prevalent then and even now about Hitler, and about the Japanese, is a tissue of fallacies from beginning to end. Every plank in this nightmare evidence is either completely untrue or not entirely the truth. If people should learn this intellectual fraud about Hitler’s Germany, then they will begin to ask questions, and searching questions, about the current World War III version of the same myth. Nothing would stop the current headlong flight to war faster, or more surely cause people to begin to reason about foreign affairs once again, after a long orgy of emotion and cliché.

    For the same myth is now based on the same old fallacies. And this is seen by the increasing use that the Cold Warriors have been making of the “Munich myth”: the continually repeated charge that it was the “appeasement” of the “aggressor” at Munich that “fed” his “aggression” (again, the Fu Manchu, or Wild Beast, comparison), and that caused the “aggressor,” drunk with his conquests, to launch World War II. This Munich myth has been used as one of the leading arguments against any sort of rational negotiations with the Communist nations, and the stigmatizing of even the most harmless search for agreement as “appeasement.” It is for this reason that A.J.P. Taylor’s magnificent Origins of the Second World War received probably its most distorted and frenetic review in the pages of National Review.

    The task of revisionism has been to penetrate beneath these superficialities and appearances to the stark realities underneath — realities which show, certainly in this century, the United States, Great Britain, and France — the three great “democracies” — to be worse than any other three countries in fomenting and waging aggressive war. Realization of this truth would be of incalculable importance on the current scene.

    For revisionism, in the final analysis, is based on truth and rationality. Truth and rationality are always the first victims in any war frenzy; and they are, therefore, once again an extremely rare commodity on today’s “market.” Revisionism brings to the artificial frenzy of daily events and day-to-day propaganda, the cool but in the last analysis glorious light of historical truth. Such truth is almost desperately needed in today’s world.”
    - Murray Rothbard, Review of The Origins of the Second World War, 1966

    http://mises.org/daily/2592

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  178. AaronB says:
    @jacques sheete

    It might seem odd, but it’s because beliefs and opinions aren’t the main thing in Judaism, so you can play with a wide range of ideas. There is no “central message” you have to stick to. That same attitude permeates the Talmud.

    God chose Jews and made a deal with them – keep my laws, and you’ll get wealth and power. Beliefs aren’t central.

    It’s also why the Old Testament, while a national epic, doesn’t bother to make the Jewish people look good, which on the face of it would seem very odd. Jacob, the father of Jews, is a slinking, deceitful coward, taking advantage of his provider brother in his moment of weakness. King David, the national hero, is without magnanimity or a large heart, he is vengeful over petty slights, full of unbridled lust, and sneakily sends loyal officers to death to get at his wife.

    The message is – being bad won’t make you any less chosen. Jews often won’t be seriously bothered when you point out bad Jewish behavior. They may regret it if they’re good people, but it doesn’t seriously affect their status in their own eyes.

    God deprives Jews of wealth and power if they don’t keep his laws, that’s all.

    At the same time, there obviously were and are noble Jews who were of a different spirit, and such Jews grew more numerous towards the end of Old Testament times, and some of their works are the prophets and wisdom books. There were also interesting communities of Jewish holy men and ascetics at that time. Things were more complex back then, before Talmudism.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  179. @Wally

    As my comment notes —

    Germany and Poland both grant out that Jews German and Polish were targeted. I think you will have to take up your complaint with them.

  180. AaronB says:
    @Max Denken

    I’m not entirely sure that’s sound methodology.

    When the Bible was finally compiled, many things in the ancient books were likely altered, and many new things added that were pretending to be ancient. In other words, there was a large propogabda element to the whole affair.

    I believe it was Ezra who pretended to “discover” the books. Interestingly, it is said that when Ezra read out the new harsh covenant to the Jews, they wept bitter tears, suggesting this was new stuff for them.

    It seems entirely possible that at the time Ezra and his scribes did their compiling, the leading civilizations were abandoning human sacrifice. Jews, wishing to polish their image, may well have pretended to have ancient books claiming they did so earlier than anyone else.

    That would be consistent with a notable Jewish pattern – many Jews like to claim Aristotle and Plato got their ideas from Jews, for instance.

    Claiming priority in whatever is perceived as excellent is a well established Jewish habit, which is consistent with high levels of egotism.

    In fact, egotism pretty much guarantees it.

    • Agree: jacques sheete
    • Replies: @Max Denken
  181. utu says:

    I decided to rain little bit on this Polish parade. Just because of very unreflective and propagandistic nature of author’s article.

    Poland was the only country in German-occupied Europe where there was neither a collaborationist government

    Germany did not really try very hard to recruit quislings in Poland. Which is too bad for Poland. If Poland was lucky like French to have Marechal Petain and had more sovereignty there would be much less unnecessary slaughter in Poland. And probably it would be better for Jews. Countries that collaborated with Germany like Hungary offered much better chance of Jewish survival. Only when Hungary decide to bail out Germany moved in and deportations of Jews began.

    There were over 400,000 Poles fighting the German occupiers in the largest underground army in Europe

    What do you mean by fighting? Apart form the senseless Warsaw Uprising there was not that much fighting? How many Germans were actually killed by Polish underground? And by starting Warsaw Uprising 200,000 civilians lost their lives. Yes, Germans killed them but it would not happened if it was not for the Polish underground. By how many days did Polish underground shorten the war? How many less Poles would lost their lives if the underground sat on their hands and just concentrated on enforcing law and education of young people instead of provoking Germans with futile opposition?

    And there was the largest army-in-exile fighting Hitler too: 250,000 men under British command,

    How many of these soldiers were recruited from German POW’s in 1943 and 1944? Shouldn’t they be counted as contributors to German war effort while in Wehrmacht?

    1.4 million Poles were hauled from their homes and forced to work as slaves in German factories and fields, not counting 300,000 military prisoners who were so forced also.

    Many Poles and even Jews volunteered to work in Germany as it was often safer there than in Poland and condition often were very good. Ida Fink and her sister did this because there she felt to be safer as Germans unlike Poles could not tell they were Jewish.

    The number of ethnic Poles murdered by the Germans was not “at least 1.9 million” as Frantzman’s article states, but 2.77 million, i.e. almost equivalent to the 2.7 to 2.9 number of murdered Polish Jews.

    These numbers are very questionable. Right after war it was decided that 3,000,ooo Polish Jews died and to this number 3,000,000 Poles were added. Nobody did any counting then. To large extent this was a political decision by Jakub Berman. There is a problem of other ethnicities like Ukrainians, Belorussian, Lithuanians and German who were Polish citizens who are often included in these numbers. The same victims are counted twice or trice because they are included in Ukrainia, Belorussian and so on claims.

    At least half a million of Polish citizens served in German are forces. Many of them were ethnically Germans but there was also a large group of Silesians and Kashubians who signed the Volksliste with the approval of Polish government in exile. Subsequently many Polish citizens died on Eastern front and wherever they fought against the allies. Are they counted as victims of German occupation as well?

    The physical damage to Poland at German hands, alone, stands at $850 billion–$1 trillion in 2018 dollars.

    Isn’t it kind of late for playing this kind of game? For whom Poland is playing this game? Is it possible that some Jewish Iago’s whispered this idea into Mr. Kaczynski’s ears? Is it possible that this is all about getting money to Israel and the world Jewry.

  182. snag says:

    I have to add to that list of Jewish butchers above that Witold Pilecki one of the most respected and cherished Polish heros for fighting Germans and Soviets was murdered after the war by Julia Brystygier „Bloody Luna” the head of notorious Security Department. Henryk (Hersz) Podlaski the head prosecutor and Józef Rozanski (Goldberg) the head of Investigation Department all remembered for their sadism and cruelty.

  183. Art says:
    @iffen

    iffen — Thanks much for your words to Tyrion 2 — he is a child. Peace — Art

  184. aandrews says:
    @snag

    “Concentrate and try to stay on the subject….”

    lol

  185. @AndrewR

    Well then, Andy–was the nation/state of Poland complicit in the Holocaust, or not?

    • Replies: @utu
    , @AndrewR
  186. Seraphim says:
    @Max Denken

    Are you sure that it is not PAUL Johnson’s “A History of Christianity” ['First published in 1976, Paul Johnson’s exceptional study of Christianity has been loved and widely hailed for its intensive research, writing, and magnitude—“a tour de force, one of the most ambitious surveys of the history of Christianity ever attempted and perhaps the most radical” (New York Review of Books)]?

    “Johnson C. Philip (born 3 April 1954) is an Indian physicist and Christian theologian… one of the most prominent contemporary figures in the Indian Brethren movement and also in Christian apologetics and creationism”. Another evangelical bullshitter.

    May I recommend you (obviously an outsider) some serious studies about Christianity? Say, “The Cambridge History of Christianity”(9 vol.)?

    • Replies: @Max Denken
  187. utu says:
    @Gene Dobry

    According to Jan Grabovski, yes. He claims that Poles are directly responsible for the death of 200,000 Jews. Does he have an evidence? I haven’t read the book.

    • Replies: @szopen
  188. @AaronB

    Interesting; I am not sure. May be worth finding a reliable book about that. Something in Joseph Campbell? As to the Jewish-Greek thing, it goes back at least to Alexander’s times, with hate on both sides… I think that a good way to look at our civilization, including a check on the “bad” stuff inherited from Judaism, e.g., at least in my opinion, the stuff from Genesis 26 about absolute dominion over every living and growing thing on Earth — so different from the Nature-oriented pantheism of the proto-Europeans — is to bury the concept “Judeo-Christian and call it “Europagan – Greek- Roman – Judeo-Christian” civilization.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  189. @Seraphim

    My bad, haste. Of course, it’s Paul. I have his book right in front of me. For a rational insight into the early days of Christianity I trust also Bart Ehrman.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  190. AndrewR says:
    @Gene Dobry

    I don’t know, nor does the answer to your question have any relevance to whether one should be allowed to claim the Polish government helped kill Jews.

    • Replies: @Gene Dobry
  191. @Beckow

    I’m not fond of the British monarchy in any way but Prince Harry didn’t march in German uniform he simply donned one to attend a “bad taste” party along with likeminded youths who all wore costumes that they considered to be in poor taste. How and why did your version of that incident become so distorted?

  192. @utu

    You raise lots of points, and except for the easy ones I don’t wish to argue them anymore than I do those of the Holocaust deniers. Life’s short, writing is long and difficult; I need time for the latter, not for arguing.

    Let is suffice that there is a comprehensive institute in Poland charged with the studies of this, it’s staffed by competent historians, they publish deep studies of all those issues, and I consider them authoritative. More here: https://ipn.gov.pl/en. But I’ll treat briefly these:

    1. By fighting I mean fighting. There were clandestine units all over the country, engaged in sabotage, espionage, guerilla warfare etc. My father, BTW, part-Jewish, served in one of those, for three years in the deep forest hardly ever emerging.

    2. None of the soldiers fighting under the Polish Gov in Exile (London) were German POW. But many were former Soviet POW. Stalin, under pressure, let them go, and they made their way via Iran, the M.East, to North Africa and the UK.

    3. Your claim that “many” volunteered to work in Germany is flimsy. But somewhere between 1.5 and 2 million were grabbed off the street and out of their houses and transported to Germany compulsorily. In fact, the only reparations that Germany has paid to Poland was for the labor of these slaves.

    4. I am not sure where you got the number “half million” but have not time to research now so I’ll let it stand. But to blame Poland for the acts of its Volksdeutsche population is to accuse Israel because some Palestinian Arab, Israeli citizen, blew up a bus with people in it. The collaboration of the Volksdeutsche with the German occupiers was a grave problem in all Eastern European countries that opposed the Germans. Many of the worst Nazi butchers, e.g. SS General Odilo Globocnik, belong to this category. Hence the usually-neglected aspect of the complaints about the post-war treatment of the German minority in countries like Poland and Czechoslovakia. Much hate had been built toward those minorities during the war, and there were good reasons.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @jilles dykstra
    , @Wally
  193. AaronB says:
    @Max Denken

    the stuff from Genesis 26 about absolute dominion over every living and growing thing on Earth

    I definitely agree that this is bad and we should get rid of it. The pagan feeling for nature is great.

    Western civilization appears to have no fixed form. It literally contains every possible tradition, including Asian ones, in neo-Platonism, Pyrhhonian Scepticism, and thinkers like Eckhardt, and the pagan feeling for nature.

    The culture of the past 500 years seems to be over. Instead of defining Western civilization, we can try and help create the culture that will replace it.

    Perhaps the Jewish element, since ego is a human perennial, cannot be entirely absent. But it seems reasonable to hope that we can enter a phase where the emphasis has shifted towards the pagan love of nature and the more spiritual Greeks, as 500 years ago it shifted towards Jewish ego.

    The contact with Asian traditions, it was once thought, would lead to the spread of Buddhism in the West. This no longer seems very likely, but maybe the true legacy of our contact with Asia is to shift back into focus neglected elements of our own tradition, our pagan love of nature, and the Greek spiritual heritage, rather than Greek rationalism.

    Leopardi I think it was, said it was wrong to see the culture of his time as a continuation of the Greeks and Romans, but as something basically new. What will emerge in the near future, will have to be unlike the past 500 years.

    Dreams of “revival”, I think, are only dreams.

    Once the new synthesis emerges out of the current chaos, whatever the new synthesis will be, it will carry automatic conviction, and seem right for the moment. With a new unifying cultural synthesis, Europe will have no problem dealing with Muslims, immigrants, and Jews. From a new position of self-confidence, Europe may well choose to leave such communities in place, with limited rights. From a position of coherent strength, they may no longer pose a threat. Or, Europe may find it necessary to expel them. When the time arrives, the answer will seem obvious.

    But the process of decay has some time left to go, before a new culture, with new foundations, can emerge.

    • Replies: @Max Denken
  194. @German_reader

    The late historian Stephen Ambrose, a major booster of the “Greatest Generation,” once wrote that almost a third of American soldiers in World War II were “ethnically German.”

    I don’t think this is very often acknowledged.

  195. Art says:
    @AaronB

    AaronB — do you have definition of Egotism — thanks — Art

    • Replies: @AaronB
  196. Beckow says:

    he simply donned one to attend a “bad taste” party

    He would say so, wouldn’t he? You say it is distorted because some might not take Harry’s explanation at face value. (Although I said ‘even as a joke’, so we are not that far apart.)

    When an outsider looks at it, they just see Harry marching in a Nazi uniform. I am not sure what the difference is between ‘donning’ a uniform, and walking or marching in it. You are predisposed to believe an innocent explanations in this case, do you always do it? Or are some more believable than others?

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  197. @AaronB

    Re: Greeks

    I could certainly use a renewed appreciation of form, beauty, aesthetic quality. Maybe if we can put globalism (incl. Made in China) behind us, and the pierced–tattooed –Taliban bearded — metrosexual -hip-hopping – skank — fat– slob — white privilege Zombie generations behind us, something to that effect can emerge.

    Also: Paideia. Identify those with the qualities to lead for the good of the people, train them from infancy, and elect leaders only from among them. This democracy business is not working when the demos has been so corrupted in every way…

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  198. snag says:
    @utu

    To get some credibility here you’re going to have to do little more than cut and paste holocaust museum crap especially personal recollections sprinkled with an imagination begging for pity.

    In holocaust museum Bielski Brothers are heroes but in reality they were a bunch of bandits, murderers and rapists. So much for credibility.

    Agree with Warsaw Uprising it was senseless and stupid the only ones who gained were the Soviets and jewish commies from Poland that took off to Soviet Union instead fight invading Germans.

    http://www.minelinks.com/war/bandits_1.html

    https://www.iwp.edu/news_publications/detail/prof-chodakiewicz-analyzes-the-koniuchy-massacre

    Once crook always crook.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/oct/14/usa.secondworldwar

    Good article about Bielski Brothers.

    http://www.rp.pl/artykul/252550-Bielski-pomagal-Zydom–ale-tez-ich-wykorzystywal.html

    Same article in lousy google translation. When you see an empty space scroll down to continue

    https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=pl&u=http://www.rp.pl/artykul/252550-Bielski-pomagal-Zydom–ale-tez-ich-wykorzystywal.html&prev=search

    Have a good one.

    • Replies: @utu
  199. utu says:
    @Max Denken

    Wow, you are so banal. You really believe all this crap. You must be ancient. They do not make people like that anymore.

    By fighting I mean fighting.

    Really? How many times did your dad shoot a gun? What did your father do in this forest? How did he procure food? Did the peasant like give them the food.

    But my question was by how many days the activity of Polish underground shortened the war? And how many civilians suffered because of German reprisals caused by this activity?

    None of the soldiers fighting under the Polish Gov in Exile (London) were German POW.

    Nope. 89,000 were former Wehrmacht soldiers which is 35.8% of all Polish soldiers in the West.

    Learn your own history. And one more thing it is very pretentious to keep signaling your Jewish genes on both your mother and father sides as if that f. matter. But in your banal mind you think it does. You are a pathetic person. If this is the best what Poland can send to the trenches I do not think Poland can be saved.

    • Replies: @szopen
  200. Seraphim says:
    @Max Denken

    You would be much better if you consult scholarly studies. You will learn more about the ‘Saxon massacres’ than from the pseudo-Germanic-pagan-’white’ neo-nazi myths.
    And, very importantly, consult first studies written by traditional Christians. Bart Ehrman and his ilk are bullshitters (like Paul Johnson BTW).

  201. AaronB says:
    @Art

    Self-interest.

    Some amount of ego is necessary for survival. You wouldn’t take another bite of food if you had no ego, or take shelter from a storm.

    But outside a relatively narrow band, ego becomes a source of strife with others, and unhappiness for yourself.

    Dominating others, gathering vast wealth, thinking oneself superior – these are just exaggerated forms of self-seeking.

    Our human values of good and bad are not laws of the universe, but relative to our biological need to survive.

    However, these values are a burden, and a source of anxiety. To look at everything in the world in terms of good or bad, in other words, beneficial or harmful to our biological survival, imposes a terrible cost.

    Humans also experience the need to be released from the urgency of value judgements and see the world sub specie aeternitas, from the perspective of God, from which height, our human concerns seem petty. This is spirituality. Realesed from the burden of anxiety for survival, the world becomes a playground, and you savor what is in the world, rather than evaluate their uses. Released for a while from the seriousness of biological survival, you can appreciate the strangeness and mystery of the world. Progress – relating as it does our biological values – seems pointless, as you lack nothing, since biological needs no longer press urgently. You are fulfilled. The world, and everything in it, hardly seems so serious anymore.

    While more fulfilling than any other experience, spirituality cannot be maintained constantly, as you couldn’t survive that way. But such moments of release can be frequent, and they can color your everyday attitude and make you partially detached as you go about trying to survive and reproduce.

    But detachment is the essence of spirituality.

    The Jews have adopted a perspective from which human biological needs are final, total, and absolute. They project our petty biological needs onto the cosmos itself. In such a system, there can be no rest, peace, joy, or beauty. Anxiety and care predominate, and hide the wonder of the world.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
    , @Art
  202. @Max Denken

    ” Hence the usually-neglected aspect of the complaints about the post-war treatment of the German minority in countries like Poland and Czechoslovakia. Much hate had been built toward those minorities during the war, and there were good reasons. ”

    Good reasons.
    I suppose you do not read french, otherwise you could see that Poland chose not to remain neutral, in the expectation of becoming bigger through provoking war, either immediately, that the Hitler government would collapse within a few days after attacking Poland, or after the war.
    The expectation was that Polish troops would add Berlin to Poland in September 1939.
    Hence the provocations by Poland, such as firing on German passenger planes flying between Berlin and Königsberg, by the Polish navy.

    Simon Newman, ´March 1939, The British guarantee to Poland, A study in the continuity of British Foreign Policy’, 1976, Oxford

    Comte Jean Szembek, Ancien sous-secrétaire d’État aux Affaires étrangères de Pologne, ‘Journal, 1933 – 1939’, Paris 1952

    Helmuth Fechner, ´Deutschland und Polen, 1772 – 1945’, Würzburg 1964

    A. von Ribbentrop, ´Deutsch-Englische Geheimverbindungen, Britische Dokumente der Jahre 1938 und 1939 im Lichte des Kriegsschuldfrage’, Tübingen 1967

    Leonard Mosley, ‘The Reich Marshall, A Biography of Hermann Goering’, London 1974

    You of course now will answer that the widow of Von Ribbentrop cannot be trusted.
    Alas what she writes is consistent with the mentioned books.

  203. @utu

    The Warsaw uprising was not senseless at all, in my opinion.
    I think it is comparable to De Gaulle marching into Paris at the head of troops after the 1944 invasion.
    To be liberated often is no liberation at all, how does one liberate itself of the liberators ?
    The biggest USA military base overseas is in Germany.

  204. @Mulegino1

    ” This is another Allied war crime that has been glossed over, just like the sinking of the Wilhelm Gustloff, ”

    Alas not so simple as it seems
    Cajus Bekker, ‘Flucht übers Meer, Ostsee Deutsches Schicksal 1945′, 1964, 1999, Augsburg

  205. @anarchyst

    Indeed, even Elie Wiesel writes that he could have stayed, with his father
    Elie Wiesel, ‘La Nuit’, 1958, 2007
    His father was in hospital.

  206. @Wally

    Taylor.
    Indeed, when one reads detailed accounts of the attack on Poland, the occupation of Denmark and Norway, the attack and occupation of the Netherlands, Belgium, and France, one sees that Germany was not at all prepared for war.
    The Blitz krieg was necessity, Germany was unable to wage a long war, as we see how the attack on Russia petered out.
    Hitler’s big mistake was to swallow the bait of the Polish provocations.
    Von Ribbentrop had assured him that GB and France would do nothing, as indeed they did, for a long time.
    The attack and occupation of France was a desperate attempt to force GB to make peace.
    The attack on Russia also was the consequence of having attacked and divided Poland, no longer a buffer state between Germany and the USSR, as Molotov made abundantly clear during his visit to Berlin.
    Molotov indicated that Hitler now was at the mercy of Stalin.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  207. @snag

    In any case Germany did not have rubber.
    As to oil, not for nothing in the Russian campaign the Russian oil fields were an objective.
    Even one of the two ‘standard’ holocaust studies admits, the mentioned one just on page 300 or so, that Auschwitz was a big industrial centre.
    Elie Wiesel worked in a big storage facility for electrical parts, as he himself writes.

    Raul Hilberg, ‘The destruction of the European Jews’, student edition, Teaneck, 1985

    • Replies: @snag
  208. szopen says:
    @Wally

    Fucking liar. That’s why I don’t discuss with people from CODOH.

    “‘I’ve identified a number of buried pits using geophysical techniques. These are considerable in size, and very deep, one in particular is 26 by 17 metres.’”

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2087735/British-archaeologist-discovers-fresh-evidence-mass-graves-World-War-Two-death-camp-Treblinka.html

    (lying even that “we don’t know whether those buried ied of natural causes” for the one grave (not “mass grave”), when in one case there is a clear gunshot wound in the base of the skull)

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  209. @jacques sheete

    You do not seem to realise that I’m an old Dutchman, born in WWII.
    The anti jewish measures in Germany were duplicated in the Netherlands after the German occupation began.
    I of course did not personally witness those measures, but there is abundant literature, consistent with what my parents and other relatives told me, based on their experience.
    Last month, Februari, our Februari 1941, strike against the persecution of the jews, was officially remembered.
    Not for nothing a jewish colleague of my father, also a college professor, committed suicide with his whole family shortly after the German occupation had begun.
    Not for nothing my father left his job, and my parents their house, my mother with me, to go underground, after my father was ordered to march with his students to the German Kulturkammer.

    https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Februaristaking

  210. szopen says:
    @Lex

    Link please. To a primary source.

    • Replies: @Lex
  211. @snag

    There indeed seems to have been jewish cooperation with the Red Army.
    There also was Russian cooperation with the German army.
    History is never simple.

    • Replies: @snag
  212. szopen says:
    @utu

    He doesn’t. He uses estimates: he estimates that such and such number of Jews lived in ghettoes and at least such and such percentage escaped, and because only such and such number survived, it means the rest had to die from the Polish hands “directly or indirectly”.

    Also, in order not to write too many replies:

    Apart form the senseless Warsaw Uprising there was not that much fighting?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Pi%C5%84cz%C3%B3w

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/27th_Home_Army_Infantry_Division_(Poland)

    And the rest of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Tempest

    My grandfather fought in operation “Ostra Brama”. I’ve learned about that only after his death so I do not know the details :( except that he was then forced to join LWP.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @utu
  213. @polskijoe

    British historian Charmley states nine million
    John Charmley, ‘Der Untergang des Britischen Empires, Roosevelt – Churchill und Amerikas Weg zur Weltmacht’, Graz 2005

    I add one million deaths after 1945, civilians in misery, in a destroyed country, with a diet with less calories than the Germans gave to the inmates of the camps.

    I further add one million POW’s murdered by hunger and exposure by Eisenhower and De Gaulle

    James Bacque, ´Der geplante Tod, Deutsche Kriegsgefangene in amerikanischen und französischen Lagern 1945 – 1946, Frankfurt/M, 1989, 1994 (Other losses, Toronto, 1989

    Charles A. Lindbergh, ´The Wartime Journals of Charles A. Lindbergh’, New York, 1970
    Lindbergh visited a dying POW in one of the open air camps, a specialist in developing a rocket engine for the V3, meant to reach the USA.

    Paul Bonnecarrère, ´Par le sang versé, La Legion étrangère en Indochine’ , Paris, 1968, 2006
    German POW’s could escape dying of hunger in French camps by joining the French Foreign Legion, often then dying in Indochina.

    Heinz Leiwig, ´Deutschland Stunde Null, Historische Luftaufnahmen 1945’, Stuttgart 2005
    Airial pictures of a destroyed country, you can also see the open air prison camps where the POW’s perished.
    It is even asserted that nearly dead POW’s were bulldozed into death by suffocation.

  214. Wally says:
    @Max Denken

    said:
    ‘I need time for writing, not for arguing.’

    What you write is impossible Zionist nonsense, laughable & easily debunked.
    You are wise in now dodging debate, previously you were crushed.
    As myself & others have demonstrated, you have no proof for your Zionist / leftist propaganda.
    You recite it, but can’t back it up.
    Posts in this thread and then a previous one: http://www.unz.com/freed/the-future-of-the-jews/
    expose the fraudulence of your infantile Zionist claims.

    The more that guys like you write the worse it becomes for their scam.

    Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the laughable ‘holocaust’ storyline is the message.
    See the ‘holocaust’ scam easily & thoroughly debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

  215. @snag

    I know that Gross’ book is hotly contested in Poland.
    However, Polish hatred of jews one can also read in other sources, such as Bogdan Musial.
    Even in 1967 Poland made it possible for jews to leave Poland, Gross was one of them.
    In how far the book by Gross is true, I cannot judge.

    That there were anti jewish sentiments all over E Europe, little doubt about it.
    Solsjenytsyn describes and explains them for tsarist Russia.
    On who was morally right, one can debate long.

    A major cause of Russian popular hatred against jews was how they ruthlessly came into possession of land an houses of just liberated serfs, who had no idea about money, drank far to much in inns exploited by jews, then accumulated debt they could not repay.
    Government hatred of jews was caused by their resistance to assimilation, trying to evade taxes, and dodging conscription.

    As jews were literate, revolutionary ideas could be spread an developed, hardly possible with the illiterate Russian peasants.

    • Replies: @snag
  216. Sam J. says:

    I would not call out the Poles for being responsible for the labor camps but I would fault them for the sorry state of the Auschwitz swimming pool . How can such a structure be neglected at this historic spot. Shame on them.

    The Jews should force the Palestinians to repair it.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  217. Tyrion 2 says:
    @jacques sheete

    No, I ignored those. Your paranoid schizophrenia makes me feel awkward.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  218. szopen says:
    @utu

    And how many civilians suffered because of German reprisals caused by this activity?

    Sometimes there was partisan activity because of civilian suffering, like in partisan war in Zamojskie area:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zamo%C5%9B%C4%87_uprising

    BTW, you can see in this article about Poles who “volunteered” to work in Germany.

    Heck, even my grandfather “volunteered” to work in Germany, after he was captured in some street action.

    There is also question of Polish intelligence, reports on V2 for example (one missile was even transferred to UK) which helped bombing the Penemunde and such a like. I guess taht shortened war just a bit.

    • Replies: @Wally
  219. Lex says:
    @szopen

    His conversation with Grzegorz Braun in RingTV, you can also look up his interview for Rzeczpospolita from 2008.

    http://www.rp.pl/artykul/115412.html

    Słyszałem również i taką odpowiedź, że to mienie znacjonalizowali Niemcy, a Polska je od nich przejęła. Jestem konstytucjonalistą i profesorem nauk politycznych. Wiem, że z formalnego punktu widzenia taka odpowiedź ma ogromną wartość. Ale z moralnego punktu widzenia wartość takiej zimnej odpowiedzi jest ujemna. Takie argumenty są obraźliwe.

    • Replies: @Lex
  220. @AaronB

    God chose Jews and made a deal with them – keep my laws, and you’ll get wealth and power. Beliefs aren’t central.

    God deprives Jews of wealth and power if they don’t keep his laws, that’s all.

    Interesting. I’ve long ago deduced that, yet I’ve never heard anyone else put things that way. I also find it interesting that those deals don’t apply to Jews only; similar wisdom can be found in other ancient cultures too.

    Jews often won’t be seriously bothered when you point out bad Jewish behavior.

    I know and work with a lot of what I consider “good” Jews, and as you say, they don’t seem to get bothered by that. In fact, they seem to think it a compliment. They can’t suppress a knowing smile, then they clam up.

    Thanks for sharing.

  221. Moi says:
    @Carlton Meyer

    No mention of the 2 million or so who are incarcerated in the concentration camp called Gaza.

  222. @Max Denken

    Maybe if we can put globalism (incl. Made in China) behind us, and the pierced–tattooed –Taliban bearded — metrosexual -hip-hopping – skank — fat– slob — white privilege Zombie generations behind us, something to that effect can emerge.

    For what it’s worth, you and I share common ground here.

    Also: Paideia. Identify those with the qualities to lead for the good of the people, train them from infancy, and elect leaders only from among them. This democracy business is not working when the demos has been so corrupted in every way…

    Never happen. Sounds like some form of Socratic ideal and we all know what happened to him and why. Train them according to whose values? Democracy does not exist, never really did, and cannot exist except among very small groups with homogenous values. Even the “gold standard,” Athenian democracy, was pretty much a farce since more than 2/3 of the population were women, children and slaves who were ineligible to cast ballots. Even then it didn’t last long and was contentious.

    What Western “civilization” has lived with for millennia are various forms of klepto-plutocracies, not democracies or even true aristocracies.

    In my opinion the main fallacy lies in hoping for some ideal form of rule, and that’s a futile endeavor partly because humans do not exist to be ruled, and because no man is fit to rule over others.

    Isaiah 9 16 —-For the leaders of the people cause them to err: and they that are led by them are devoured. —-

    Hosea 8:4: “They set up kings, but not by Me; They made princes, but I did not acknowledge them.”

    Then we have 1 Samuel 8, which is chock full of great nuggets but too long to add here.:

    Sample.:

    11 He said, “This is what the king who will reign over you will claim as his rights:

    And he goes on to list what invariably happens with rulers. Besides, smart people resent coercion, which is why trying to lead Jews is like trying to lead cats, and why there are so many cults and sub-cults extant.

    • Replies: @Max Denken
  223. Moi says:
    @Carlton Meyer

    Given all the lies Israel and its supporters say about the Palestinians, it’s hard to believe the official Holocaust history written largely by Jewish historians.

    • Agree: jacques sheete
  224. @AaronB

    The world, and everything in it, hardly seems so serious anymore.

    Very true.

    Such a realization also tends to release one from the pursuit of excess money and it amazes me that so many intelligent people, goyim and Jew, don’t seem to understand that.

    I’m going to copy Rabelais…except I won’t have a headstone.

    Tirez le rideau, la farce est jouée.

  225. @Tyrion 2

    No, I ignored those. Your paranoid schizophrenia makes me feel awkward.

    Maybe, but more likely you’ve been shown to be FoS.

    Paranoid schizophrenia? Moi?

    Didn’t yer mother ( I trust you had one), teach you not to make fun of crazy people, especially ignorant low IQ ones such as moi?

    Now go troll somewhere else; you’re not even witty or entertaining. The Mave, Sam 207 was much better.

    • Troll: Tyrion 2
    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  226. Lex says:
    @Lex

    I should’t have used “at least”.

    http://m.se.pl/wiadomosci/polska/polski-nie-stac-na-odszkodowania_60533.html

    Wartość tego mienia jest szacowana na ok. 50-60 mld dolarów.

    http://www.michalkiewicz.pl/tekst.php?tekst=1917

    Wartość tej operacji sam ambasador Szewach Weiss ocenił na 65 miliardów dolarów

  227. @jilles dykstra

    ….one sees that Germany was not at all prepared for war.

    Of course it wasn’t, and it never desired it. It was railroaded into a conflict due to the “diplomatic” maneuvering of the Brits who were master imperialists. As wicked and treacherous as those bastards, were, one has to stand in awe of their cunning and mastery of gamesmanship.

    Ever since German unification, the Germans were doomed because the other empires were not about to suffer any competition. Why would they want war when they were already up against the 3 or 4 largest and bloodiest empires known to man? They simply were not that stupid.

    The Brits would have done anything to keep Germany and Russia from linking up and one sees similar motives in play today.

    From the perspective of the money bag crowd, Germany has to be controlled and can never be allowed to form useful relationships with Russia.

    That, plus the fact that there’s big money in war, is key to understanding the history of the 20th century.

    [Lloyd George] said, “ The truth is that we have got our way. We have got most of the things we set out to get. If you had told the British people twelve months ago that they would have secured what they have, they would have laughed you to scorn. The German Navy has been handed over; the German mercantile shipping has been handed over, and the German colonies have been given up. One of our chief trade competitors has been most seriously crippled and our Allies are about to become her biggest creditors. That is no small achievement. In addition, we have destroyed the menace to our Indian possessions.”

    -David Lloyd George, as quoted in LORD RIDDELL’S INTIMATE DIARY OF THE PEACE CONFERENCE AND AFTER , 1918—1923, p 42 (diary entry of (30 March 1919).

    https://archive.org/stream/in.ernet.dli.2015.189747/2015.189747.Lord-Riddells-Intimate-Diary-Of-The-Peace-Conference-And-After_djvu.txt

    The bankers rule. It was essentially a banker generated conflict. The rest is mere detail and serves mainly to obfuscate the real issues.

  228. wayfarer says:

    A ration of “social justice” from the depths of humanity’s hell, and some false demigod’s plan for a greater self-serving Israel.

    source: https://www.globalresearch.ca/greater-israel-the-zionist-plan-for-the-middle-east/5324815

  229. @jacques sheete

    • Troll: Tyrion 2

    Please, kind sir, this is the third time I’m telling you how sensitive I am. I get really hurt especially when people like you , who are so near and dear to me, are so mean!

    Have you no compassion for victims such as myself?

    I’m crushed. Terribly so.

    • Troll: Tyrion 2
  230. Miro23 says:
    @polskijoe

    Poles MUST understand the US will choose Israel and Jews over Poles.

    Many Polish generals know that US will do little to help.

    This much is clear, so being realistic, Poland needs to remove NATO missile bases. Poland will get nothing from the US, so a least reduce the risk by stopping cooperation with the US in threatening Russia from Polish soil.

  231. Mulegino1 says:
    @Max Denken

    Neither the religion we know as “Judaism” nor such a people as “Jews” existed in the time of Abraham and Isaac, and the term “Jews” and “Judaism” cannot be anything but anachronisms when referring to the religion practiced by the Israelites and the Judeans, i.e., the Mosaic covenant or the worship practiced by the Patriarchs and the Prophets.

    Judaism/Rabbinism/Talmudism, in its current form, postdates Christianity by centuries and was an outgrowth of one particular sect among the Judeans, i.e., the Pharisees.

    Christ was a Judean (Iudeos) and not a Jew in the commonly understood contemporary sense. “Judaism” is a radical departure from the religion practiced in the Levant and among the diaspora of the time of Christ. “Judean” was an inhabitant of Judea who considered the true worship to be conducted at the Temple at Jerusalem, as contrasted with the Samaritans who believed that the authentic Temple was on Mt. Gerizim.

    Contemporary Judaism holds the Babylonian Talmud to be its authoritative text, not the Torah or the writings. Also, it is matrilineal. These are both diametric departures from the Old Testament tradition which considered the Pentateuch or first five books of Moses/Torah to be authoritative, and were indisputably patrilineal. The Karaites, the Samaritans and the Falashas are all patrilineal and accept only the Torah as authoritative and thus more authentically reflect that tradition.

    The oldest extant version of the Old Testament is the Greek Septuagint which was translated from ancient Paleo-Hebrew texts in the fourth century B.C., and was the one most quoted by Christ and the Apostles as per the most ancient manuscripts of the New Testament. This version predates the Massoretic translations- which were not even written in Paleo-Hebrew – by approximately 1400 years. The Massoretic texts have been deliberately falsified in places in order to detract from Christ’s fulfillment of the Messianic prophecies.

  232. @Beefcake the Mighty

    Even in 2012, Sturdy-Colls’ tentative conclusions were rash, but she has found nothing since to warrant her triumphalism. And let’s not forget her famous egg-on-face moment.

    https://revblog.codoh.com/2012/01/comment-sturdy-colls/

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=11121

    http://newobserveronline.com/smithsonian-red-faced-after-treblinka-star-of-david-tiles-shown-to-be-not-jewish-at-all/

    BTW, it appears to be a myth that Jewish religious law proscribes disturbance of burial sites. But even so, why should this be an impediment to a proper forensic investigation?

  233. wayfarer says:

    Abrahamism in its 2700 year entirety, can be distilled to a single pearl of wisdom, “forgiveness!”

    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_religions

  234. Wally says:
    @szopen

    said:
    “There is also question of Polish intelligence, reports on V2 for example (one missile was even transferred to UK) which helped bombing the Penemunde and such a like. I guess taht shortened war just a bit.”

    Please show us these “Polish intelligence reports” that you claim, rather than just make things up.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    , @szopen
  235. Wally says:
    @szopen

    Seriously? Laughable Zionist controlled Wikipedia?

    It’s amazing why anyone would cite Wikipedia as a reference for anything which Jews have a special interest in promoting. It’s rather like asking the wolf to guard the chicken coop.

    Zionist Wikipedia Editing Course

    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/139189

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @szopen
  236. snag says:
    @jilles dykstra

    What and where Wiesel said he did it doesn’t matter it matters how he survived? Many of those survivors are alive because they were snitching. Hillberg had more important priorities than waste his time to verify Wiesel’s version. At the time Hilberg’s was working on his book Wiesel was nobody, that may explain this error.

    Since you mentioned Raul Hilberg and ‘The destruction of the European Jews’ why did it take them so long to translate and publish in English in America and why did the butchered by censors version was printed in Israel by State University not by outside publisher and only after his death?

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    , @Wally
  237. @Wally

    Indeed Poles gave GB the remains of a crashed V2, a DC2 in a hazardous operation picked up the remains in territory still occupied by Germans.
    The bombing of Peenemünde in no way shortened the war, it in fact did little damage.
    The building housing the electricity generating machinery, huge, exists to this day.
    Electricity was needed to produce the liquid oxygen that propelled, together with alcohol from potatoes, the V2.
    The bombing did kill several hundred foreign workers.
    The V1 and V2 were produced deep underground at Buchenwald Dora.

  238. @snag

    Hillberg’s book is nonsensical, in my opinion.
    Wiesel is interesting as he never saw gas chambers, just assumed they were there, and confirms the self management of the camps, indirectly, the management is described as well fed, also the cause of death of those not belonging to that management, estimated by Rassinier at 75%.

    • Replies: @snag
  239. snag says:
    @jilles dykstra

    What are you trying to pull? Looking at their conduct it was a stab in the back, they’re born traitors, they did that to every nation in Europe starting in Iberia during Moorish conquest. There’s no accident that they’re hated and chased away every time after the settled among others. Many nations they stabbed multiple times because of this Christian thing ‘turn the other cheek’ or forgive and forget.

    https://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/halsall/jewish/lazare-anti.asp

  240. @Sam J.

    Small.
    But indeed, Rassinier writes that just the members of the inmate camp management went swimming, or went to cinema or theatre.
    The underfed 75 % who worked were too tired, or ill, to do anything on their day off.

  241. Wally says:
    @snag

    Wiesel “survived” because there was no policy to exterminate Jews. Obviously.

    The mere fact that we have so many “survivors” when it’s claimed that ‘the Germans tried to kill every Jew they could get their hands on’ blows away the scam.

    “Some stories are true that never happened.”
    - Elie Wiesel

    http://www.codoh.com

  242. szopen says:
    @Wally

    Says someone which from dozen of fotos picked the one least resembling human bones, instead of for example this one http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/cortagravatas/media/bWVkaWFJZDo2NzkwODEyOQ==/?ref=

    But, I am quite used to such things with discussion with guys from CODOH.

  243. @jilles dykstra

    You do not seem to realise that I’m an old Dutchman, born in WWII.

    You do not seem to realize that some Jews declared war on Germany before in 1933. You also seem not to realize that Jews were a significant part of the Bolshie push for worldwide permanent revolution, or that Germany was viewed as significant competition by the largest empires of the time.

    Furthermore you do not seem to realize how war propaganda works nor do you seem to realize that WW2 was not fought for the benefit of the masses of Jews, nor do you realize that Jews and Zionists collaborated with Nazis.

    You seem not to realize that virtually everyone suffered during wartime, and that many Jews did well for a long time under Hitler.

    You seem not to realize that establishment versions of “history” are mostly bogus.

    You seem not to realize that due to the exaggerations and lies, that the credibility of “survivors” is almost zero, or worse. You also seem not to realize that my concern for the suffering of Jews is about on a par with their concern for the suffering of Christians of the time and their level of concern for the suffering of the Palestinians at Zionist hands today.

    There are plenty of things that, despite your experience and reading, you don’t realize, and I realize that you ‘ll never realize that.

    P.S.:: Thanks for reminding me about Morel. I’m reading his excellent “Truth and the War.”

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  244. bookish1 says:

    The whole issue could be settle in a nutshell if these simple facts are understood: https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t553062/

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  245. @jilles dykstra

    Not for nothing a jewish colleague of my father, also a college professor, committed suicide with his whole family shortly after the German occupation had begun.

    You can blame that on the Bolshies and their financial backers. If they hadn’t been raising murderous Hell for a long time, the Nazi movement would have never come into existence.

    You can also blame that on the fact that Jews declared war on Germany when it was already suffering as a result of the Versailles rip off and the Great Depression.

    Reed makes the case that the Nazis were primarily anti-Commie. The Zionists and the Reds morphed that into “anti-Semitism.”

    Like that Zio-crazies often tell me, “quit whining, that’s war.”

    • Replies: @L.K
  246. snag says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Polish hatred? Are you trying to impute that this hate affected exclusively Poles? Show me one nation that love them or ever did and was happy to have them for a neighbor. Give me a one good reason why Poles or anyone where they settled love them. They were and are (looking at Palestine) evil not revolutionary and in regard to education and jewish minority I don’t know how was in other countries but prior to WWII 3/4 jews in Poland couldn’t communicate in native language and 9 out of 10 in writing.

    “Government hatred of jews was caused by their resistance to assimilation, trying to evade taxes, and dodging conscription” … and rightly so if you come uninvited under someone’s roof assimilate, blend in and contribute like the rest of them instead re-arranging his furniture and impose your customs* and parasitic lifestyle.

    *Kosher slaughtering, kosher nostra on almost every food product in US

    This crap comes with them everywhere they show up.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/05/nyregion/in-westhampton-beach-a-ritual-jewish-boundary-stirs-real-town-divisions.html

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  247. @jacques sheete

    @jacque sheets

    Athenian democracy: what you deride as a weakness, our experiment with democracy proves to have been a wise prescience. With our universal “democracy,” the large underclass simply votes itself other people’s money, women vote where their hormones lead (*), “immigrants” vote for the interest of the countries they emigrated from, the felons vote for Terry McAuliffe, and the dead vote Dem. That is the farce. Plus, in a society this large and spread so wide, the ability of the media to sell and get elected those leaders the media has preselected.

    Jews as cats: A long time ago some Israeli I knew told me a joke,

    De Gaulle and Ben Gurion are having a chat about the challenges of their respective posts. De Gaulle says, “Do you think it’s easy to lead a country where there are 400 varieties of cheese?” To this, Ben Gurion: “Try to lead a country where there are 2 million prime ministers.”

    (*) I know, I know, to say this is to cause an even bigger storm than what the Joo-done-it, Holocaust-is-a-fib interlocutors have been trying to provoke; but if I put my mind to it I’ll write it up in detail.

  248. @szopen

    You are not being asked to show that, in the course of a major war with massive population transfers before and after, that people died, were buried, etc. No one denies that you can find evidence of such things throughout Eastern Europe. The official narrative holds that at Treblinka (to use one example), 700-900K people were gassed, buried, exhumed, and burned on open-air pyres. For this specific claim, little or no evidence is forthcoming (Sturdy-Colls work does not even remotely support such a claim). You can harp about codoh all you want, but you should at least try to understand the question being asked of you.

  249. snag says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    Read my post again – I’m not the one that came up with that term or talking about faith.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  250. @Max Denken

    … women vote where their hormones lead…

    Speaking of women, voting and democracy, here’re some quotes that are entertaining because they’re so true.

    Blind and deaf, yet she understood the scam. Note the date.

    “Our democracy is but a name. We vote? What does that mean? It means that we choose between two bodies of real, though not avowed, autocrats. We choose between Tweedledum and Tweedledee.… “
    -Helen Keller,
    Letter published in the Manchester Advertiser (3 March 1911), quoted in A People’s History of the United States (1980) page 345.

    “Are not the dominant parties managed by the ruling classes, that is, the propertied classes, solely for the profit and privilege of the few?
    They use us millions to help them into power. They tell us like so many children that our safety lies in voting for them. They toss us crumbs of concession to make us believe that they are working in our interest. “
    -Helen Keller,OUT OF THE DARK, LETTER TO AN ENGLISH WOMAN- SUFFRAGIST* Copyright, 1907 http://archive.org/stream/outdarkessaysle01kellgoog/outdarkessaysle01kellgoog_djvu.txt

    We elect expensive masters to do our work for us, and then blame them because they work for themselves and for their class.

    -Helen Keller,OUT OF THE DARK,LETTER TO AN ENGLISH WOMAN SUFFRAGIST* Copyright, 1907

    http://archive.org/stream/outdarkessaysle01kellgoog/outdarkessaysle01kellgoog_djvu.txt

  251. The Zionists tried a similar switch last year when Israeli President Benjamin Netenyahoo announced that the Palestinian Arabs were to blame for the Holocaust because the Grand Mufti supposedly convinced Hitler to kill all the Jews where supposedly Hitler just wanted to kick them out of Europe where they could go to Palestine.

  252. @Max Denken

    Why vote. Note where politicians originate! ;)

    DEMOSTHENES
    Happiness, riches, power; to-day you have nothing, to-morrow you will have all, oh! chief of happy Athens.

    SAUSAGE-SELLER
    Why not leave me to wash my tripe and to sell my sausages instead of making game of me?
    DEMOSTHENES
    You shall be master to them all, governor of the market, of the harbours, of the Pnyx; you shall trample the Senate under foot, be able to cashier the generals, load them with fetters, throw them into gaol, and you will fornicate in the Prytaneum.

    -Aristophanes, The knights, 454 BC

    http://classics.mit.edu/Aristophanes/knights.html

  253. snag says:
    @AaronB

    “This attitude can help explain a lot of what’s going on today. It isn’t enough for Jews to have an ethno-state, it has to be that no one else has one. It isn’t enough for Jews to have a Holocaust, no one else can have suffered”

    There’re over 70 million of ethnic Germans in US, 56 million of ethnic Irish, 17 million ethnic Italians, 12 million ethnic Poles, you don’t even know that they exist except once a year during October Festivities or St. Patrick, Columbus and Pulaski days, for the rest of the year they blend in and are an Americans ,…

    Other ethnic and religious minorities in US they all mingle, follow their heart, intermarry and no one is making a fuss about it except the Jews. Their self absorbance and egocentric philosophy is like leprosy that can’t be cured.

    Take a look at Jewish multi-culti and inclusiveness activist’s spouse’s, no multi-culti or inclusiveness there, no sir ,…

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  254. @Beefcake the Mighty

    P.S.
    Plus an account exactly how it was done, at Treblinka. As I wrote elsewhere here, the fact that you don’t read Polish does not excuse your needless advocacy of false, pernicious views.

    http://www.treblinka-muzeum.eu/index.php/historia/oboz-zaglady/palenie-zwlok

    And mind you, again, this is not coming from “the Jews” but from the Poles, and as my text above makes clear, there is no love lost between these two peoples. If you want to argue a contrary view, argue with the Poles who have researched the facts about Treblinka and published them on this site, organized by subject (left column).

  255. renfro says:
    @szopen

    Evidently you haven’t really done through research….Jews in Poland and many other countries left for other countries all during the war.

    Full text of “Report of the International Committee of the Red Cross on its activities during the second world war (September 1, 1939 – June 30, 1947), Volumes 1 – 3 (complete)”

    https://archive.org/stream/ReportOfTheInternationalCommitteeOfTheRedCrossOnItsActivitiesDuring/ReportOfTheInternationalCommitteeOfTheRedCrossOnItsActivitiesDuringTheSecondWorldWarseptember11939-June301947Vol1_djvu.txt

    “‘The Committee’s delegates were able to visit the camp at Theresienstadt (Terezin) which was used exclusively for Jews and was governed by special conditions. From information gathered by the Committee, this camp had been started as an experiment by certain leaders of the Reich … These men wished to give the Jews the means of setting up a communal life in a town under their own administration and possessing almost complete autonomy. . . two delegates were able to visit the camp on April 6th, 1945. They confirmed the favourable impression gained on the first visit” (Vol. I, p . 642).

    (The Jews held at Theresienstadt also got visas to Palestine during the war.)

    “A large proportion of the Jewish minority had permission to stay in the country, and at certain periods Slovakia was looked upon as a comparative haven of refuge for Jews, especially for those coming from Poland. Those who remained in Slovakia seem to have been in comparative safety until the end of August 1944, when a rising against the German forces took place. While it is true that the law of May 15th, 1942 had brought about the internment of several thousand Jews, these people were held in camps where the conditions of food and lodging were tolerable, and where the internees were allowed to do paid work on terms almost equal to those of the free labour market” (Vol. I, p. 646).

    “The Jews from Poland who, whilst in France, had obtained entrance permits to the United States were held to be American citizens by the German occupying authorities, who further agreed to recognize the validity of about three thousand passports issued to Jews by the consulates of South American countries” (Vol. I, p. 645).

    The emigration of European Jews from Hungary in particular proceeded during the war unhindered by the German authorities. Until March 1944, Jews who had the privilege of visas for Palestine were free to leave Hungary” (Vol. I, p. 648).

  256. @Max Denken

    I don’t speak or read Polish, no. (How did you know?). But on that site, the picture of the boy holding his hands up, I’ve seen that attributed to the Warsaw ghetto uprising, not Treblinka. So I am led to think that this website indeed shows how “something is done”, but probably not what you have in mind.

    • Replies: @snag
    , @Wally
  257. szopen says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    I do understand that you will deny any evidence. I’ve seen codohers denying witnesses accounts of railway workers as Ząbecki (he just repeated gossips!). I’ve seen denying accounts from Polish underground, denying testimonies from local Poles who lived near Treblinka. They haven’t seen the gas chambers, after all, they just seen Jews going in and never going out and were repeating gossips. They were just hearing shots and screams, and that was all their imaginations. They were only forced to dig graves – and occasionaly shot by drunken SS-man. The letters found in Auschwitz? Forgery. The photo like this:? No proof at all, it could be anything.

    EOT from me.

  258. @snag

    As far as I know we Dutch never had much problem with our sephardic jews, who fled the Iberian peninsula around 1500.
    It may well be that our Golden 17th century, not so golden for everyone, was to some extent the result of knowledge and contact of jews that came here.
    Spinoza still is in esteem, that when he left, was expelled, the jewish community by asking a Dutch judge to rule in a business conflict with a fellow jew, we know.
    Our Dutch jews now are divided about Israel, those that criticise Israel are called traitors, they have their own organisation.
    What part of Dutch jews supports or criticises Israel I do not know.
    The pro Israel jewish organisation CIDI makes a lot of noise any time they see a threat, insult, etc.
    Our media have a high proportion jews, the extremely one sided news they provide is more and more under criticism.
    Immigrant Dutch with Muslim religion are not friends of jews, incidents caused by them against jews are increasing.
    Personally I knew jews of whom I had a high esteem, academics, I also had a very bad experience with a jew, but this means very little.
    Non jewish Dutch also can be nasty people.

    • Replies: @snag
  259. @jacques sheete

    In my opinion Bernard Baruch brought FDR into politics to wage war, as he already in 1928 or so said to Churchill ‘that he saw great things for him in the future’.
    Nevertheless, Hitler’s anti jewish measures are a fact.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  260. snag says:
    @Max Denken

    If I was you I would be more careful with those numbers they depend who’s at the country’s steering wheel not if they (the population) love each other or not – There’s no secret that after 1989 most of the brass in so called Polish Government are the sons and daughters of Stalin’s Jews cripto zionists and pro Israel.

    I remember in 1960′s in Birkenau there was a sign with 4 million Jews gassed there, today I read on their website 900.000 – Trust but verify ;)

  261. @Beckow

    Donning means wearing. Walking and marching are different things though a similar physical action is required for both. You used the term marching which usually implies support for a cause or belief. I don’t doubt that Harry walked in his uniform as it is unlikely that he was carried or used a wheelchair. That he wore the uniform to attend a bad-taste party was widely accepted and reported at the time in the British press along with pictures of some of the other oddly attired attendees.

    Your version of the event twisted something quite innocent into something seemingly malevolent which is why I responded.

    • Replies: @Beckow
  262. For Max the democracy lover.

    In June 1922…the Zionist halter was firmly reaffixed
    round the neck of American State policy,
    and though American voter only slowly
    realized this, it became immaterial to him which party prevailed at elections.

    -Douglas Reed, The Controversy of Zion, p 300-301

    https://archive.org/stream/TheControversyOfZion/TheControversyOfZion_djvu.txt

    So you can see that “democracy” does nothing for Americans.

    Here’s more.:

    “…the major political parties have not represented a real political issue since the 1860s. These parties have not stood for opposite political principles; they have differed only about methods.”

    Rose Wilder Lane Give Me Liberty 1936,1954

    American “democracy” is a mockery of the concept and always has been. The constitution,in fact was instigated and imposed as a defense against democracy. I have proof; just read the anti-federalists.

    • Replies: @Max Denken
  263. Wally says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    The “boy” was not harmed, is in fact alive today.

    Yes, war time train stations had armed guards on both sides.

    http://www.codoh.com

  264. Wally says:
    @Max Denken

    It’s alleged that 900,000 Jews are buried at the mentioned Treblinka.

    Why can’t Max Denken or anyone else show us those alleged human remains?

    http://www.codoh.com

  265. @jilles dykstra

    Nevertheless, Hitler’s anti jewish measures are a fact.

    No one ever denied that.

    In reality, there can be a lot of “air” between policies, laws, measures, and practice.

    In practice, Some Jews did well under Hitler. The non-Commie ones tended to do well for several years as did the ones like Glamour Girl Fromm, who admits it.

    It’s a fact that any suffering they did was overblown and still is.

  266. @bookish1

    The whole issue could be settle in a nutshell if these simple facts are understood: https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t553062/

    True, but as Max at comment #99 pointed out, you cannot reason with religious fanatics. That goes double for those who believe in the religion of Holy Holocaustianity, especially the Orthodox members. Money and power are involved as well, so maybe it goes triple or quadruple for that gaggle of cultists.

  267. Wally says:
    @Max Denken

    More of Max Denken’s juvenile fantasy nonsense.

    His Janowska concentration camp and his Leon ‘Bone Mill’ Weliczke Wells utterly debunked here:
    The Bone Mill of Lemberg
    By Klaus Schwensen

    https://codoh.com/library/document/3220/?lang=en

    ex.:cement mixer claimed to be a bone grinding machine, absurdly captioned:
    “Moses Korn, a Jewish prisoner forced to work in Sonderkommando 1005 unit, poses next to a bone crushing machine in the Janowska concentration camp” (USHMM caption).
    The manufacturing company’s brochure. Oops!

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Max Denken
  268. Art says:
    @AaronB

    Self-interest.

    Some amount of ego is necessary for survival. You wouldn’t take another bite of food if you had no ego, or take shelter from a storm.

    But outside a relatively narrow band, ego becomes a source of strife with others, and unhappiness for yourself.

    Dominating others, gathering vast wealth, thinking oneself superior – these are just exaggerated forms of self-seeking.

    AaronB,

    Christianity has a rational idealistic philosophical response to this egoism problem. The words of Jesus.

    “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

    “As yourself” – so loving one’s self (egoism) is OK in Christianity. It is natural, it is expected. When we love ourselves, we take rational actions that extend our future. When we love our neighbor, we take rational actions that extend their future. When we “use our minds” to create an exchange between neighbors – the future of both is extended – when it is repeated a rational bond is created.

    When one neighbor egotistically plants and nurtures an apple tree – and the other neighbor does the same with an orange tree – they both are burdened and unbalanced with too much of something – so they trade – building a yearly ongoing bond between them. Their personal can-do egos lead to extended balanced futures for both.

    Old world egoism that is built on zero-sum is not the way to live. Being loving and using your mind, to extend each party’s personal future by exchanging things is the rational alternative. It is the bases of idealistic Christian Western culture. When egoism is channeled by philosophical Christianity, good things happen.

    Think Peace — Art

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @wayfarer
  269. Wally says:
    @szopen

    Great, a rock is supposedly proof for the alleged “6M Jews’.

    Alleged mass grave for 900,000 at Treblinka:

    These stones said to be remains of 250,000 Jews. No lab analysis was permitted.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @szopen
  270. AaronB says:
    @Art

    I understand what you are saying, but that is all in the realm of biological flourishing. Planting trees, helping our neighbors, it all relates to our survival. You are just describing rational, enlightened ego.

    Spirituality starts exactly where all these concerns end. It liberates us from the anxiety and burden of such concerns, and allows us to see beauty – beauty and wonder mean seeing the world as it is, and not how it relates to our survival, desires, or needs.

    It is detachment, not love – love, like hate, relates to our biological needs. Love for everyone may help one detach from oneself, and is a step in the right direction, but ultimately spirituality is beyond love or hate.

    True spirituality is almost impossible to find these days, even in writers on religion. It almost always cones down to enlightened egotism or attachment – people are afraid to go beyond love and hate. They think all pleasures come from their preferences.

    They do not know there is a happiness beyond preferences, a happiness beyond human values – and they are too afraid to find out.

    The message is all but lost, although it’s hiding in plain site in the old writers, and even more recent ones like Santayana.

    We cannot survive without self-interest, but we also need to transcend that perspective and see the world from the perspective of eternity.

    But you must do as you see fit. I am only explicating here.

    • Replies: @Art
  271. @szopen

    I’ve seen codohers denying witnesses accounts … I’ve seen denying accounts from Polish underground,

    You’ve long reached the point that you’re just making an ass of yourself.

    First of all, people really do have to understand, at long last, the difference between storytelling and real, established facts. There is no forensic evidence that corresponds to the killing of millions of people in gas chambers. Also, there is a complete lack of documentary evidence in the form of actual written orders to carry out mass killing of civilians on this scale.

    In any case, what you are doing here is completely intellectually squalid. It is as if somebody claimed that the U.S. government had a policy of killing every last Vietnamese villager (they didn’t) and killed, let’s say 30 million of them, and then, as proof of this, you are presenting the various evidence that various massacres (like the one at My Lai) occurred.

    Surely, you can understand that proving that the My Lai massacre occurred (which nobody disputes anyway) is not the same as proving that the U.S. government had a policy from the very top of killing every last Vietnamese villager! Nor does proving that things like the My Lai massacre occurred then prove that the death toll totals in the many millions!

    This is the kind of argumentation that you resort to. You set up a ridiculous straw man to knock down, the straw man being that the revisionists are claiming that the Germans never killed anybody! So, if you can demonstrate that the Germans committed some massacres or atrocities, then somehow you’ve demonstrated the following 3 propositions:

    1. The scale of the atrocities, i.e. some number something like 6 million.
    2. Exterminationist intent, i.e. was there a conscious government policy by Germany to kill every last Jew in Europe?
    3. The existence of homicidal gas chambers, which has become a central element in the story.

    The above 3 points are what have to be demonstrated, not knocking down some silly straw man that you set up.

    • Replies: @utu
  272. @Max Denken

    P.S.
    Plus an account exactly how it was done, at Treblinka.

    This is just storytelling. One really has to understand, at long last, the difference between storytelling and real, established facts.

    • Replies: @Max Denken
  273. @jacques sheete

    You have reversed not just the meaning but the letter of my previous comment to you (#254) in order to attack some apparition wafted from your mind that you read into my words though they were the opposite of your attributed meaning. You are not of a sound mind and I’ll not engage in further exchanges with you.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @jacques sheete
  274. @Wally

    Argue with the Polish historians I’ve directed your ideological pal to, not with me who merely relays their findings.

  275. utu says:
    @snag

    Did you read my comment? Did you understand what I wrote? Perhaps you made a mistake and you are responding to somebody else. You seem to be confused.

    • Replies: @snag
  276. @AndrewR

    [AndrewR says:] What’s next? A law banning claims that Poles ethnically cleansed Germans after the war? Or a law banning any criticism of said ethnic cleansing?

    This law proves that the anti-Pole sentiments of Friedrich der Grosse, Hitler, and other prominent Deutsche were eminently justified.

    [Gene Dobry says:] Well then, Andy–was the nation/state of Poland complicit in the Holocaust, or not?

    [AndrewR says:] I don’t know, nor does the answer to your question have any relevance to whether one should be allowed to claim the Polish government helped kill Jews.

    [Gene Dobry says:] Andrew, “complicit in the Holocaust,” as I asked, is not the same as your indefinite “helped kill Jews,” whatever that means. Claiming the Polish nation/state to be “complicit in the Holocaust” is to accuse it of genocide, a crime carefully defined so as to be actionable. So I ask whether one might consider the law as a put up or shut up warning.

    Note the criterion and very careful definition of “against the facts:”
    Article 55a:
    1. [Anyone] who, in public and against the facts, ascribes to the Polish Nation or to the Polish State, responsibility or co-responsibility for Nazi crimes committed by the Third Reich, [as] defined in Article 6 of the Charter of the International Military Tribunal, Annex to the Agreement for the prosecution and punishment of the major war criminals of the European Axis, signed in London on August 8, 1945 [....]

    Of course if there are further facts to be established, proceed.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
  277. L.K says:
    @jacques sheete

    Hey Jacques,

    In fact, the seeds for WW2 were sown by the victors of WW1 and the choices they made at the end of it.

    As US historian T. Fleming writes, in his book ‘The Illusion of Victory”:

    Wilson proclaimed self-determination as a great principle—and then gave away chunks of German-speaking Europe to Czechoslovakia, Poland, Italy and France, sowing the seeds of the next war. Knowing that Austria favored a union with Germany after Vienna lost its empire, Wilson wrote into the Treaty of Versailles an article barring the union, no matter how the Austrians voted.[...]“

  278. @Jonathan Revusky

    You are not competent to challenge the account of non-Jewish historians about World War 2, the Holocaust etc. If you feel up to it, find our who exactly wrote up these “stories” at the Memorial websites of Treblinka, Majdanek, Auschwitz etc., challenge them and demand evidence. Go to the German state archive, pull out some of the 30 million Holocaust-related primary documents there, e.g. about Treblinka here: https://www.its-arolsen.org/en/archives/overview-of-the-archival-holdings/general-inventory/, and challenge their veracity.

    You are not competent to challenge the accounts of Jewish historians either, but at least there you have some shred of a non-lunatic claim that those may be tendentious. And this ridiculing of first-person survivors’ memoirs, like Leon Weliczker’s or Jan Karski’s that your ideological pals here have engaged in is not just tedious, meretricious and uninteresting but profoundly, morally, repellent too.

    Please take this Holocaust revisionism stuff elsewhere. You are trespassing in the house that I built, and I don’t like you to camp in the middle of my living room. Go and build your own house, and sprawl in its living room to your hearts’ content.

  279. Vojkan says:

    Jews as an ethnic / religious group have ceased to inspire me sympathy for quite some time. Yet I confess that posts by apologists of Hitler and Nazi Germany puzzle me. People, tell me, what excuses do you have in store for the invasions of Denmark, Norway, Yugoslavia, Greece? Those definitely weren’t bolshevik nor jewish run countries then and posed no threat whatsoever to Germany. So why did the peace-loving nazis attack them?

  280. Beckow says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    Your version of the event twisted something quite innocent into something seemingly malevolent

    As I responded before ‘innocence’ or ‘malice’ in this case are in the eye of the beholder. My question is: do you use similar criteria to evaluate other things around us? Or is the lax criteria reserved for the likes of Harry?

    We see daily that those who want to see malevolence find it among ‘enemies’ with little effort. A little consistency wouldn’t hurt.

  281. utu says:
    @Jonathan Revusky

    First of all, people really do have to understand, at long last, the difference between storytelling and real, established facts.

    And I am sure Revusky is in position to explain the difference. He is a guy that if he was shown CCTV footage on YT form Krema I in Auschwitz showing people dying would be the first to scream: cris actors, cris actors. Look, their convulsions do not look natural. And the little girl foaming at her mouth is totally fake. I can do a better job with a cream whip.

    • Agree: szopen
    • Troll: Jonathan Revusky, L.K
    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  282. @Max Denken

    The unz.com forum is a “house you built”? Does Ron know this?

    • Replies: @Max Denken
  283. @utu

    Congratulations, this is probably your stupidest comment yet.

  284. @Vojkan

    The Germans invaded Norway to preempt an invasion by the British (you know, those tireless defenders of truth and right over the centuries, just ask the Indians and the Irish), in a war declared by the British.

    • Replies: @Vojkan
    , @Wally
    , @jilles dykstra
  285. @szopen

    Yes, it could be anything, that’s exactly the point. For the acts in question there is no kind of evidence. You expect believe to believe fantastic claims of a systematic extermination plan based on pictures of a cremation during a brutal war?

    • Replies: @szopen
  286. L.K says:
    @Max Denken

    M.D:

    And mind you, again, this is not coming from “the Jews” but from the Poles, and as my text above makes clear, there is no love lost between these two peoples.

    So what? There are plenty of Non-Jewish interests promoting the holocaust hoax, for various reasons, and the Poles have always had a major stake in it. Duh!
    As Paul Grubach explains in “The Non-Jewish Stake in the Holocaust Mythology. Why the Continued Success of a Failed Ideology?”, sub-item ‘Poland and the Holocaust Mythology’:

    …Nevertheless, as in the case of Russia, Polish promotion of the Holocaust mythology cannot be solely explained by Jewish influence.

    In 1947, the Polish government enacted a law that commemorated the martyrdom of Poland and other nations at the Auschwitz concentration camp, and the new Auschwitz State Museum was born.[69] As Robert Jan van Pelt observed, “Poles and Jews contend for the spiritual ownership of the camp. Auschwitz is the most significant memorial site of the [Jewish Holocaust], and it is also the most significant memorial site of Polish suffering under German rule.”[70]

    As in the case of Russia, the Holocaust ideology was made into a cornerstone of Polish nationalism. Indeed, the Poles wanted to create a “national myth,” so this “required” that a large number of both Poles and Jews lost their lives at Auschwitz. With this political end in mind, Polish propagandists conspired to intentionally exaggerate the Auschwitz death figures.[71] [...]

    The “etched in stone fact”—that four million people were murdered at Auschwitz—has been exposed for the intelligently designed lie that it was. Nevertheless, the current Polish government provides more than $3.6 million a year to maintain Auschwitz concentration camp as a memorial site of the Holocaust.[73] Does the Polish leadership do this solely because the Jewish lobby wants them to do this? The answer is no.

    The need to promote the Auschwitz mythos survives in both Jews and Poles. “The collapse of communism had done nothing to resolve the tensions between Poles and Jews over spiritual ownership of the site,” Professors Dwork and van Pelt so rightly noted.[74] …
    The Auschwitz-Birkenau complex is a major tourist site that provides the Polish economy with much needed revenue. In 1989, 700,000 people from eighty-nine countries visited the camp.[76] In 2008, it experienced more than one million visitors, and in 2009 a record number of 1.3 million toured the site.[77]

    http://www.inconvenienthistory.com/2/1/1919

  287. polskijoe says:
    @Vojkan

    So glad the Nazis lost. And all their revisionist fairy tales wont change anything.

    Commie/Jews/Zionists/Americans/Brits
    anyday over those lunatics.

    And I dislike all those groups.

    Nazi Germany was lucky it didnt receive Morgenthau or Roosevelt plans.

    It was lucky the Soviets didnt level them to the ground after what what happened in Leningrad, Moscow, Kiev, Stalingrad, Warsaw, and many more.

    Lets face it all these revionists/deniers would be destroyed in court, in any country,
    by actual experts.

    Just about everyone acknowledges and knows the Nazis slaughtered millions and millions.

    No amount of revionisism or denail, will ever change the truth.

    Again I repeat Germanics have been attacking Slavic lands for 1000 years.

    Tuetonic Knights, General Plan Ost, Drang Nacht Osten, fake Prussians,
    barbarians, Swedes, etc, etc, etc

    Yet according to the codoh fanatics, nah no way. Germany was innocent.
    No genocides, no holocaust, no priests killed, millions and millions of Poles, Ukrainians, Belarussians, Russians were not killed.

    hey. the Earth is flat too! lol.

    Everyone is wrong. The Poles, the Russians, the Jews, all the experts on WW2,
    All those witnesses. ALL of them are wrong according to codoh.

    only codoh is right. HAHAHAHAHA.

    • Replies: @L.K
  288. Vojkan says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Oh, and I suppose they invaded Denmark just because it was on the way to Norway like they invaded neutral Belgium because it was on the way to France and they bombarded Yugoslavia without a prior declaration of war because it was on the way to, wait no, it was just that Yugoslavia wasn’t keen on being occupied by German troops. Sorry, that’s not what I call peaceful policies. Even if you take the Holocaust out of the picture, nazi Germany is the aggressor, just as for instance Napolean was the aggressor, and nazi Germany repeatedly committed crimes against peace. The British being bad doesn’t make the Germans good. Others are bad therefore we have the right to be bad is Israeli logic.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  289. L.K says:

    More from Grubach’s article, ‘The Non-Jewish Stake in the Holocaust Mythology’, re Polish self interests in promoting the holohoax:

    [MORE]

    Dutch-Jewish historian Robert Jan van Pelt noted that the falsehood that four million people were murdered at Auschwitz was originally “established” by the Soviets, and then later used by the communist rulers of Poland for their own political goal of laying claim to formerly German territories. He wrote: “As relations between the East and West deteriorated after the war, with the largest part of Germany becoming part of NATO and with that country refusing to recognize the legitimacy of postwar Polish annexation of the former German territories of East Prussia, Pomerania, and Silesia, the number of victims [at Auschwitz concentration camp] became a political issue. The communist rulers of Poland were unwilling to give an inch on their claims against Germany as long as the Bonn government did not recognize the territorial integrity of the People’s Republic of Poland, and therefore they continued to maintain, as a matter of policy, that 4 million people had been killed in Auschwitz.”[78]

    …Polish authorities still have an ulterior vested interest in promoting the Holocaust ideology. Although Germany and Poland are presently at peace, there is a history of hostility between them. The two countries have quarreled bitterly over war damages, past suffering, and the rights of an estimated 3 million ethnic Germans expelled as Poland became a Soviet communist satellite.[79] After the unification of Germany, the issue of lands ceded to Poland after the war was again raised in Germany.[80] …

    For the Polish nation, not only does the Holocaust mythology serve as a cornerstone of Polish nationalism, a useful ideological weapon against Germany, a “justification” for anti-German hostility, and a source of much needed revenue for its sometimes sluggish economy, it also provides a “safeguard” against any future German demand that Poland give back the disputed territories to Germany. Many Poles fear in their hearts that the post-war state of Poland stands and falls with Auschwitz.[...]

    http://www.inconvenienthistory.com/2/1/1919

  290. @snag

    i am not sure what this means. You said there were no Polish Jews and never gave been. I simply noted that the state of Poland thinks otherwise.

  291. Wally says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Britain HAD already invaded Norway when the Germans arrived.
    IOW, Britain invaded first.
    British ships were actually in Narvik harbor when the Germans arrived.

    Not something the Zionist media talks about.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  292. Mulegino1 says:

    Let’s suppose that the current nucleus of the Shoah Legend were true. The vast, vast majority of ethnic Poles would certainly be far less accountable than those members of the Sonderkommando teams (almost all Jews) who were alleged to have actually participated in the “mass gassings” and cremations which- of course- occurred only in the imagination of Polish, Soviet and international Zionist propagandists.

    Instead, the “Sonderkommandos” are/were considered heroic witnesses of “the greatest crime in history which never happened in history” while goy non-participants in the “the greatest crime never committed” such as John Demanjuk from Ukraine are hunted and hounded to their dying day. The duplicity never stops.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  293. utu says:
    @Max Denken

    You are not of a sound mind

    You are good. Because it took me a bit longer to figure out out that Jacopo Guano is completely deranged. He is from another reality.

  294. Wally says:
    @Vojkan

    You obviously mean the information posted by Revisionists which you cannot refute.

    Don’t die stupid.

    Responsibility for WW2 – summary of the revisionist view

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7544

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Vojkan
  295. L.K says:
    @Max Denken

    Clearly you have NO idea what the hell you are talking about.

    Prof. Faurisson wrote in 2006:

    In 1951 the Jew Léon Poliakov, who had been part of the French delegation at the Nuremberg trial (1945-1946), stated his conclusion that we had at our disposal an overabundance of documents for all points of the history of the Third Reich, with the exception of one point alone: the “campaign to exterminate the Jews”. For this, he wrote, “No document remains, perhaps none has ever existed” (Bréviaire de la haine, Paris, Calmann-Lévy, 1974 [1951], p. 171; English version: Harvest of Hate, New York, Holocaust Library, 1979, revised and expanded edition).

    Nothing has changed since then.
    Recently, famous holohoax ‘historian’ and Auschwitz ‘expert’, Robert Jan van Pelt, in his ‘The Case for Auschwitz: Evidence from the Irving Trial’, p.5, has stated that:
    “The evidence for the role of Treblinka, Belzec, and Sobibor[...] is much less abundant(than Auschwitz).”There are very few eyewitnesses, no confession that can compare to that given by Höss, no significant remains, and few archival sources.

    The same Jan van Pelt has however admitted in an interview to the Canadian STAR, 27 December 2009, that

    “We have no material or forensic evidence to support eyewitness reports of gassings( at Auschwitz)…
    Ninety-nine per cent of what we know we do not actually have the physical evidence to prove
    .

    So, the evidence for Auschwitz as a death camp is next to nothing – plus there is abundant evidence refuting the hoax – but the evidence for the Aktion Reinhardt “death” camps is, according to Pelt himself, even much less than at Auschwitz, which is just about zero.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  296. utu says:
    @szopen

    In my first comment here I suggested how Poland could deal with Grabovski.

    And as far as the WWII and Holocaust Poland can make few preemptive moves. The book by Jan Grabovski of U. of Toronto is about to be published in Poland. It was already widely covered and discussed in Israel. The book claims that Poles are responsible for the death of 200,000 Jews. This is 3.3% of 6 millions. I think Poland should accept this claim without a single objection and offer a pecuniary compensation right away but not to Israel or Jews but to Germany which already has paid for the 6,000,000. It is beneath Israel and Jews to double bill, right?

    • LOL: renfro
  297. L.K says:
    @polskijoe

    Change your handle to polskiTroll already, since that is all you are, really, a pathetic little chauvinist troll and a sad little LIAR.

    The war between Germany and Poland was NOT a case of naked German aggression, as you must know, right polskiTroll? I mean, even a lying, chauvinist pig like you, cannot pretend not to know about all the German land stolen at the end of WW1 and given to a recently created Poland, a country created after WW1 with totally inappropriate and unsustainable borders?
    Today, Poland sits on much stolen German lands.

    Had the stupid Polish junta accepted the fair German proposal for a return of the German Danzig corridor so the country could be reconnected to its East Prussia province, war could have been avoided. Instead, Poland went on to become WW2 useful Idiot. At the end of the war, it became a Soviet satellite for decades.
    Let’s take a look at what some prominent figures from the winning side in WW1 had to say about those things:

    Lloyd George, the British Prime Minister, during the Paris negotiations:
    “I tell you once more, we would never have thought of giving to Poland a province that had not been Polish for the last 900 years…
    The proposal of the Polish Commission that we should place 2,100,000 Germans under the control of a people which is of a different religion and which has never proved its capacity for stable self-government throughout its history, must, in my judgment, lead sooner or later to a new war in the East of Europe…” 11)

    “France is not so much concerned with what is important to Poland, rather the French position is determined solely by the aim of weakening Germany.”12)

    “To surround Germany with small states, many of which are composed of peoples that have never governed themselves and that comprise large numbers of Germans who are demanding reunion with their homeland, such plans would be, it seems to me, a breeding ground for the most terrible reason for a future war.” 13)

    “… I knew that a time would come when Germany would respond to the cry of its exiled people and restore them to the Fatherland by force of arms.
    For that reason I renewed my pressure in the conference to reject the recommendations which incorporated in Poland towns and territories which were overwhelmingly German by language, race and inclination…” 14)

    • Replies: @szopen
    , @polskijoe
  298. L.K says:

    Germany had part of its lands and people stolen and East Prussia was severed from the rest of the country trough the creation of a Polish state with artificial borders.

    To understand how Germany was mutilated at the end of the great war, the following maps of Europe in 1914 and in 1923 graphically illustrate the point.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/zp3ncdm

    Concerning German territories unjustly given to the new Polish state:

    US president Woodrow Wilson’s words of 7 April 1919 also went unheeded:
    “France’s only real interest in Poland was to weaken Germany by giving the Poles areas to which they had no claim.” 15)

    U.S. Secretary of State, Robert Lansing, remarked on 8 May 1919:
    “Do examine the treaty and you will find that whole populations, against their will, were delivered into the power of those who hated them, while their economic resources were snatched away and handed over to others. The result of such directives has to be hatred and bitterness, if not despair. It may take years until these oppressed nations are able to shake off the yoke, but as sure as night follows day, the time will come when they will try to break free. We have a peace-treaty, but it will not bring lasting peace, as it was founded on the quicksand of selfishness.” 16)

  299. @Beefcake the Mighty

    This essay is the house I built, in a city that Ron Unz built. And you are not welcome in my house. Build your own house, write your own essay explaining cogently why what you believe is true. Ron’s city plan is sufficiently elastic to allow for that.

    Writing is hard, trolling is easy. But by depositing these piles in the middle of my living room you and your pals are not generating more respect for you or more credence for your theories.

  300. @Vojkan

    You asked a question, I answered it. I could expand on the other countries you mentioned but there’s clearly little point. I’m not pro-German and I would agree that they showed poor judgment before both world wars. However it’s historically inaccurate to view them as the primary or main cause of those wars. Official history on this matter is propaganda, if not outright lies.

    • Replies: @Vojkan
  301. @Wally

    Good point, I had forgotten that.

  302. wayfarer says:
    @Art

    Thanks, Art.

    Your narrative brought some tears to my eyes.

    It’s difficult anymore to find pure “unconditional love” and/or “forgiveness” in this dog-eat-dog world.

    I’m now trying to practice these things, and working at shedding a once bitter skin.

    When walking about, open to helping others, trying to enliven a mere moment in some stranger’s life, an unseen euphoric force emerges.

    We need to experiment more each day, with producing smiles, laughter, and some happiness no matter how brief, among others within this rough world.

    There are really only two ways to getting out of this life, either with a scowl upon our hearts or a smile. A pair of simple choices, but choices that are up to each of us.

    Peace

    • Replies: @Art
  303. L.K says:

    Regarding the post WW1 created Poland, its artificial borders and its foreign policy:

    …“The fact that the true political aim of the Polish ruling class was not nationalist at all but imperialist, that it involved the domination of Poles over large numbers of people of origin other than Polish, has never been sufficiently understood in Western Europe.” 51)H. Seton-Watson, op. cit., p. 320.

    The French professor of Slavonic studies, René Martel, in the year 1929:
    “All Polish ideas end up, basically, as plans for expansion. Far from wishing to resolve the question of the Corridor in a manner acceptable to Germany, they are dreaming in Poland of extending that territory by annexing Danzig and East Prussia in one way or another.” 25)

    Roman Dmowski, the leading Polish agitator at Versailles, explained in 1923:
    “I never fought for the return of Poland – since that was taken for granted – what I was fighting for was the creation of a Greater Poland. The present day Poland is not small, but we must all keep in mind that it is only the first installment for a truly Greater Poland. As yet Poland is not a totally complete empire, but she must expand until she has become one, if her continued existence is ever to be permanent.” 16)
    … A high-ranking Polish General Staff officer, H. Baginski, in a book published in Warsaw in 1927 and awarded the annual prize of the “Polish commission for international intellectual co-operation”, specified the main aims of Polish foreign policy: annexation of Danzig, East Prussia and most of Silesia. …

  304. @Mulegino1

    Yes. This is what this entire “Polish death camp” ruckus is all about: the desire of Organized Jewry to use the “Holocaust” as a form of moral terrorism against non-Jews. Some random Ukrainian POW who served as a guard to save his skin isn’t just some poor dude trying to survive a situation far outside his grasp, he’s emblematic of the anti-semitism lurking in all our souls. At some point ALL Europeans (and doubtless all Americans) will stand complicit. The Poles are damn fools for allowing themselves to be NATO’s pawn against Russia, but there is some encouragement that they are pushing back against some of this “Holocaust” nonsense. They’d best do a lot more than complain about geographical particulars, however (as all Europeans must).

    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome
  305. @Max Denken

    You can’t possibly be serious.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Revusky
  306. @ L.K.

    It’s an interesting subject and worthy of a separate discussion, though specific knowledge is required that few of us have and I certainly fall short. E.g. Danzig and Prussia had been Polish territories since the early Middle Ages, but like Silesia, subject to tug and pull with the Germans across the border. Gdansk became Danzig only because Prussia had grabbed it by force of arms in 1773 and held on to it until 1919. And then, when the residents opted for a free-city status, they still voted to be affiliated with Poland, not Germany. On the other hand, there was a lot of exploitation and abuse in the Ukrainian and Lithuanian lands held by Poland, and not every Pole would like it remembered.
    BTW Roman Dmowski was a through and through joo-hater; would fit with our contemporary ones…

    • Replies: @L.K
  307. @Max Denken

    Janowska appears to be a mini-Majdanek, no? The Soviets initially claimed 500K were killed there, now the toll is around 40K. Not sure how you say “do me a solid” in Polish (as you’ve noted, I don’t speak or read the language), but maybe you can help me understand the significance of this book? (Just to be clear, I don’t doubt the Germans ran a system of concentration camps, that they were unpleasant, etc.)

    • Replies: @Max Denken
  308. snag says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Did you read it? If his masterpiece was nonsensical he wouldn’t be blacklisted but he was because of many inconvenient facts that demolished zio-crap … he was searching for those 6 millions, then 5 millions and when he couldn’t find even 4 millions he was blacklisted in english and hebrew because he refused to edit it. Read the early German edition and compare with those edited in english and hebrew and you’ll know what I’m talking about. There’re honest Jewish scholars out there but if they rebel against zio PR are destroyed by their fellow Jews like Finkelstein and others like him.

    If he was working in some storage facility how would he know about other camps?

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  309. snag says:
    @utu

    If you didn’t change anything while I was looking for links than accept my apology. I don’t have a time
    to check over 250 posts to find what happen and clear this up ,…

  310. Art says:
    @AaronB

    They do not know there is a happiness beyond preferences, a happiness beyond human values – and they are too afraid to find out.

    AaronB,

    So, what is this spiritual happiness that goes beyond normal everyday successful living? How does it manifest itself?

    Is it some super consciousness? Is there a genetic emotion tied to it? Is it greater than the natural emotional experience of the “joy of realization”? Can only spiritual people attain this superior happiness?

    Think Peace — Art

    • Replies: @AaronB
  311. @Beefcake the Mighty

    I don’t know about 500k, and 40k is an invention of a fertile imagination. I consider this authoritative https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ob%C3%B3z_janowski, and the books of the survivors, too. The figure here is 200k. My mother was in this camp (BTW under a Jewish kapo), told me what she saw and experienced and told a German court, too. Whom should I believe, her or you?

    And here is a discussion of a biographical book by a Polish survivor, congruent with my account, not yours — and that in a forum quite negative with respect to the JQ: http://www.polishclub.org/2013/12/25/aleksander-szumanski-uniwersytet-zbirow-oboz-janowski-we-lwowie/

  312. renfro says:
    @Max Denken

    Well hold on fellow….until we are notified other wise the ‘thread’ here is the readers and commenters ‘house’. You wrote your essay and put it out here for the public. So perhaps now you should be quiet while others have their say. If you want your own house start your own blog you can control.

    The problem I have with your essay is not that the point of it is wrong…its that its writhing like a pit full of snakes. You are too emotionally involved and enraged about the subject and it shows…so naturally people are going to question you.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  313. @Max Denken

    Max, I would suggest that it is you who does not belong in this “house”. Ron Unz is a champion of free speech and this website testifies to that in every way including the freedom given to commenters. I would say that due to that and the fact that the extremely intelligent software enables various conversation threads to be followed simultaneously, it attracts some very knowledgable and diverse viewpoints. I would say that their are no better comments overall anywhere on the web, that I’m aware of. If you don’t like the comments I would suggest that you pitch your shabby little tent elsewhere (to describe it as a room implies a sound structure that is so clearly lacking, as so many commenters have stated). I would say that the comments here were of greater value than what you wrote. Suck it up!

  314. renfro says:
    @Max Denken

    Another tip…no one is going to take you as creditable if you use wiki as a source…it has become a joke for anything on Jews or the holocaust. As in the wiki every single reference footnote gives a book by a Jewish author as the source…hardly unbiased .
    You should try to find reports on Poland in reports of British and others who were in the country during those times who were nether Jewish nor Polish.

    • Agree: jacques sheete
    • Replies: @Max Denken
  315. Wally says:
    @Max Denken

    Few can read Polish here, which I’m sure you know, hence you post Zionist Wikipedia* crap which cannot be challenged because of the language.

    * Zionist Wikipedia Editing Course

    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/139189

    Tell us what the claims are in English and I guarantee you that if they are like all the other “$urvivor” tales with their contradicting claims and scientifically impossible lies, it will be exposed as fraudulent.

    And do tell us precisely what your mother told you. We’re waiting. This should be good.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Max Denken
    , @Ex-Saffer
  316. L.K says:
    @Max Denken

    Pure Polish propaganda.

    Danzig was 96% German. You are not even remotely a serious person.

    In fact, you are such a sad case that you actually mentioned the charlatan/ propagandist Jan Karski, as a credible source!!
    Even important holohoax historians generally keep their distance from J. Karski!
    In Oct. 7, 2003, p. L37, Germany’s highly known newspaper Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung wrote: “[Historian Raul] Hilberg’s last book to date […] ‘Sources of Holocaust Research,’ has silently abandoned some of the most famous, but obviously also least reliable witnesses like Kurt Gerstein and Jan Karski.”

    Keep it coming though, you are good for a laugh!

    • Replies: @Max Denken
  317. snag says:

    OMG, jewish kapo? I’m shocked … Realy ;)

  318. AaronB says:
    @Art

    Well, really, I misspoke.

    It isn’t some great mysterious thing. It’s the simple pleasure of not being always preoccupied with your survival. It’s the lifting of a burden, of anxiety, which frees you to appreciate some things better. When your mind is always clouded by anxiety over survival, it closes you off to certain aesthetic experiences as well as to wonder.

    Of course, I’m not suggesting you neglect survival, only that you develop a certain amount of detachment from yourself, and from life.

    It’s available to everyone, and only the modern world has really lost it. It used to be common.

    The ancient Greeks recommended it, as did the Indians and Chinese, and it used to be part of Christian wisdom. The last great western writer to hold this viewpoint was Montaigne.

    Since the Romantic Revolution, we have been striving to reach the impossible, to break all natural bounds, and create a utopia, here on earth, or in our minds. A little detachment, a little indifference, would restore us to sanity, and teach us not to take life on this planet so seriously. Life can be play, it does not have to be work.

    Jews with their grand quests for money and power and changing the world, the people who think science will redeem us, the modern liberals – so much energy, so much misery.

    We’re finite animals, and we have misunderstood ourselves. Trying to be what we cannot be makes us more unhappy than we have to be, and is the source of our crazy self destructiveness.

    If we’re not happy with ourselves, or life on earth, instead of torturing ourselves trying to become what is impossible for us to be, and ruining ourselves in the process, we can learn not to take ourselves or life so seriously, treat life more as play than a serious project, and free our minds to appreciate things we can’t see when we’re burdened with anxiety.

    That’s the wisdom of the ancient Greeks, and Indians. Even the passionate Hebrews had finally reached it in Kohelet.

    Only we moderns have lost it, and have a created a world heavy with gloom and seriousness.

    I don’t think we can do anything about it, though. Our culture has to die a natural death.

    But some of us can have the old mellow happiness, if we choose, and forget about progress. Detachment is better than progress, truer to the facts and to our nature, and delivers an immediate happiness, rather than an impossible future one.

    • Replies: @Art
  319. Vojkan says:
    @Wally

    I happen to come from a country the nazis invaded, where they killed many many civilians, even high school students, had a grandfather in the resistance, spent part of my childhood at a former concentration camp prisoner’s house. I am very well aware that official history is written by the winners and that it bears at best only a distant relation to the truth. I am aware because I have relatives who fought in the communist resistance and relatives who fought in the royalist resistance. But I happen to have talked to real people who lived through WWII, who weren’t Jews and who had no reason whatsoever to lie. Some even hid Jews from the nazis and had no sympathy left for them after the nazis were gone.
    As I wrote in a previous comment, even if you take the Holocaust out of the picture, the Germans still look bad enough. As for the Holocaust deniers, they are doing perfectly the Holocaust industry’s bid by reducing WWII to a German vs. Jews narrative thus confirming the Zionists’ claim to exclusive victimhood and exonerating the Germans from all their numerous crimes against other people. Kragujevac in Serbia, Oradour-sur-Glane in France did happen and they are remembered by the locals.
    As for the Holocaust itself, which as Jean-Marie Le Pen I consider a detail in History, albeit a very tragic one, the arguments of revisionists have more to do with nitpicking than credible denial. Even if “only” half-a-millon, not six million Jews died at the hands of the Germans, it’s still a crime and it’s still a genocide because the sole reason they died was because they were Jews. Six million maybe an exaggeration but there is a hell lot of Jews who went missing during WWII and never reappeared.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  320. Vojkan says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Sorry but I see no other cause for WWII in the former Yugoslavia other than the German aggression. Yes, the former Yugoslavia was an artificial creation and it maybe it would have fallen apart and descended into bloodshed sooner than it did but WWII there is because of the Germans.

  321. You are passing on paranoid B.S. I have my own B.S. detector, I know what Wikipedia is, and my detector is on and buzzing when I read it. I also consult the major non-English encyclopedias, mainly Larousse. And I’ve gives supporting items here to the Wikis I adduced.

    Once you go the way you have chosen you begin to believe that the “Zionists” control the world, even losing the essential distinction between Zionists and Jews, which would be like calling every American, “Republican.”

    You will not get me or anyone of a sound mind here to open that link to codoh, so please give up. You remind me of those Hassidic Jews who hang out in some places and try to shanghai innocents to do some Jewish ritual things in a van. I ain’t buying them, I ain’t buying you, and I am not interested whether there were five shooters in Dallas and 9/11 was a “Mossad job.”

    Let us be here, go away.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  322. renfro says:

    How Many Jews Were There In Europe In 1939?

    The following represent the estimates of the American Jewish Committee as given in the World Almanacs in various years:

    Table 2: Jews in Europe 1933-1939

    Year of Publication Year of Statistics Numbers Numbers given under World Religions
    1939 1933 9,494,363 9,494,363
    1941 1939 8,939,608 not given
    1945 1939 9,372,666 8,939,608
    1949 1939 9,739,200 not given
    1949 1947 3,920,100 not given

    See anything screwy here ?

    Table 3: Jews in the World 1933-1939

    Year of Publication Year of Statistics Numbers
    1939 1933 15,319,459
    1941 1939 15,748,091
    1945 1939 15,688,259
    1949 1939 16,643,120

    It appears the Jews found more Jews for 1939 in 1949. How do you 10 years later go back and re-do your census…with a time machine?
    I would guess by jiggling the figures and plain old lying.

    There were never 16m Jews in the world in 1939 and 6 million Jews were not killed. Period. Not even worth discussing anymore and the 6m claim deserves only a laugh and rolling of the eyes.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    , @Seraphim
  323. @renfro

    As I indicated before, I have no interest in having this discussion with you people. I am not devoting my life to the defense of Jews like you do to their libeling. I do not wish to “try” anything as I don’t wish to convince you. I just ask that you collect your dubious wares and move them elsewhere.

    As to Wiki, first of all, it was the Polish edition quite different from the English one, and second, I provided a link to a corroborative article in an anti-Semitic Polish blog, of all things.

    As to books, you find books by Jewish authors, especially autobiographical books, ipso facto lacking in credibility? An whoa, what have we here… you find wartime reports by Catholic Poles noncredible, too? Even if most of them, including Karski and Pilecki were quite anti-Semitic? You find my mother’s experiences that she relayed to her son lacking in credibility too? Brits, ah? I am sure that there are shelf-fuls of books by Brits who witnessed the years 1939 -1945 from inside Poland…

    It’s OK, I don’t mind. Just go elsewhere, please; we don’t have time for this.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    , @renfro
  324. @L.K

    The confession by Höss, in Polish captivity.
    According to
    Arthur R. Butz, ´The hoax of the twentieth century, The case against the presumed extermination of European Jewry’, Costa Mesa CA, 1977, 1989
    Höss was promised clemency if he confessed.

    This of course is what happens at many trials, the lawyer advising to confess, in order to get a less severe punishment.
    Höss was hanged so that he never could talk again.

    Then there is, again

    Paul Rassinier, ´Was ist Wahrheit ?, Die Juden und das Dritte Reich´, Leoni am Starnberger See, 7th printing, 1981 (Le véritable procès Eichmann ou les vainqueurs incorrigibles, 1963; The Real Eichmann Trial or the Incorrigible Victors. ISBN: 0911038485, 1983)

    Rassinier in the sixties was denied entrance to Germany, to be present at the trial of a recently captured Auschwitz under commander, who denied the gas chambers.
    The man suddenly died in prison, no trial.

  325. @snag

    Cannot find if you refer to Hillberg or Wiesel.
    I read both.
    Hillberg is nonsensical.
    Wiesel was moved from one camp to another, he does mention that conditions in the camps varied, depending on what inmates managed the camp.

    • Replies: @snag
  326. @Beefcake the Mighty

    Correct
    Colonel Roderick Macleod, D.S.O., M.C., and Dennis Kelly, ‘TIME UNGUARDED The Ironside Diaries 1937- 1940′, New York, 1963

  327. Seraphim says:
    @Lex

    That was the case everywhere.

  328. szopen says:
    @Wally

    Once again, you write “these stones” and link the photo which is the least likely to the bones, while omitting other photos. That means you are dishonest (no surprise here)/

  329. szopen says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    There are preserved fucking letters from Sonderkommando members (https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/auschwitz-survivor-s-hidden-letter-details-horror-of-holocaust-1.3284636). Yet I’ve seen the claim that because they are not fully preserved, and since it contains things like “3000 people in 2000 square feets” they are all forgeries and therefore, not a proof.

  330. szopen says:
    @L.K

    Oh, so when Germany steals a land from Poland it’s OK, but when then local Poles are fed up with German colonisation and make an uprising, then it means they stole from the ubermenschen. I get it now.

  331. Danny Boy says:

    The truth is that Poland or as of now Polin ( the Hebrew name for Poland ) is not a sovereign and independent country but it is being revealed more and more that it is an Israeli colony. Politicians from the ruling party Law and Justice like little mongrels follow orders from Israel and the USA and all hell breaks loose when they try to do something contrary to what they masters say. All the time they are kneeling in front of Netanyahu and assuring him that they are good “friends” of Israel. Polish-speaking politicians are spineless sellouts whom the western powers despise. The only thing they are capable of is sabre-rattling against Russia, who’s always blamed for everything including this Polin- Israeli crisis.

    • Replies: @utu
  332. Ex-Saffer says:
    @Wally

    And do tell us precisely what your mother told you.

    SCOLD/ This is being uncivil, surely. Can’t see what good can come from questioning in such a haughty way a mother’s counsel to her son. Much conversation seems to take the form of trying to argue against someone’s experience. Generally it is rather foolish to try to tell someone they have not had the experience they say they’ve had. Anyway, CODOH is a complete dog’s breakfast and gives me a headache whenever I go there, so consider that you are doing your opponent a disfavour by recommending it. /SCOLD

    • Agree: utu
  333. @Max Denken

    How many shooters there were in Dallas IS important because it was actually a coup that took the US off the rails and down the track to where it is now, near self destruction. Who did 9/11 IS important because the event was used to drive the GWOT which has near bankrupted America and has caused a great many deaths, massive migration from the third world and has brought the world to the edge of a much greater conflict than ever. Holocaust revisionism IS important because the exaggerated narrative has served as a fig leaf to cover the crimes of an artificial state that is the prime motivator and instigator of wars everywhere.

    Over 100 million people died as a result of the world wars and the inescapable fact is these wars were fomented and planned in the great banking houses primarily in London and New York. Certainly a great many innocent Jews suffered greatly as did hundreds of millions of others. The 6 million is all we ever hear about which is bad enough in itself but the fact that it is mostly lies and pure propaganda is something that everyone should care about. All of these events have in common the simple fact that together they constitute the means to implementing the NWO.

    I see that Art was referred to as a Neo Nazi, yet Art has constantly warned that the “little” Jews will suffer due to the excesses and machinations of the “big” Jews. Clearly he does not want this and he signs his comments “Peace”. Your article just reinforces the false narrative and then you have the nerve to tell commenters who disagree with you to “just go” while many have been here longer than you and have contributed much more of value.

  334. @Vojkan

    ” As I wrote in a previous comment, even if you take the Holocaust out of the picture, the Germans still look bad enough ”

    How, what ?
    My relatives who expirienced five years of occupation in the Netherlands never mentioned anything.
    On the contrary, the ten or eleven volume history by Lou de Jong, jew, mentions one or so theft by a Wehrmacht soldier, the man was punished.

    • Replies: @szopen
    , @Vojkan
    , @RobinG
  335. @szopen

    David Irving asked if he could have the Anne Frank diary investigated in a laboratory, it was refused.
    The last part is written by a ball point pen, how such a pen could be in Amsterdam in 1944 has never been explained.
    To avoid misunderstanding, what happened to the Frank family is beyond any doubt, in my mind.
    There is just doubt if a fourteen year old girl wrote the diary.
    It is the same with the minutes of the Wannsee conference, and the reports of the Einsatz Kommando’s.
    How these last reports could be distributed in about a hundred copies defies any imagination.

  336. @renfro

    How many jews there are depends on the definition used.
    The atheistic jews define themselves as ‘belonging to the jewish culture’.
    These atheistic jews do not seem to understand that their definition defines nothing, because they do not define jewish culture.

    Anyhow, I corresponded with someone in the USA whose grandfather, or a generation older, converted in Germany around 1870 from judaism to protestantism.
    This USA citizen in my opinion still was a jew, unable to look objectively at jewish, and especially zionist history.

    The meticulous Germans with their alleged race laws of 1938 did define exactly who was a jew.
    No mention of race, just the recorded religion of parents and great parents.
    Thus there were half, quarter and eight jews, and so on.

    They had big problem, if a ‘real’ German converted to judaism, did this make him a jew ?
    This did happen in marriages.
    Forgot how they solved the problem.

  337. Seraphim says:
    @renfro

    In 1965 3.5 million Jews were registered with the West German Government claiming indemnities as having suffered under the Nazis ‘physically and psychologically’ between 1939 and 1945.

  338. @Beefcake the Mighty

    You can’t possibly be serious.

    In his own mind, he’s being serious, but actually it’s profoundly UNserious.

  339. AndrewR says:
    @Gene Dobry

    Who defines “the facts”

    • Replies: @Gene Dobry
    , @Iwona
  340. @Max Denken

    You are not of a sound mind and I’ll not engage in further exchanges with you.

    And you are not qualified to judge. But then that’s what belligerent, ignorant simpletons do when they can’t deal with facts.

    Thank you for promising to ignore me in the future. Kindly see to it that you keep your promise.

  341. @renfro

    You are too emotionally involved and enraged about the subject and it shows…so naturally people are going to question you.

    That, and the fact that it’s obvious he should stick to writing in a language he’s fluent in. English is not one of them.

  342. szopen says:
    @jilles dykstra

    My relatives who expirienced five years of occupation in the Netherlands

    WUHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    Come on, by comparing occupation of Netherlands with occupation of Poland you really reveal an astonishing lack of ignorance. How many villages were burned in Netherlands by Germans? How many professors shot because they were professors? How many teachers, lawyers?

    • Replies: @Vojkan
    , @jilles dykstra
  343. @NoseytheDuke

    Your article just reinforces the false narrative and then you have the nerve to tell commenters who disagree with you to “just go” while many have been here longer than you and have contributed much more of value.

    Typical for those who cannot handle the truth. The raving emotionalism and unbalanced personal attacks are revealing as well.

    Even a low IQ, confirmed crackpot such as myself doesn’t need to resort to such behavior.

  344. @szopen

    So you think 3000 people can fit in a 2000 sq ft area? And you say revisionists are delusional?

  345. @Ex-Saffer

    I have to agree with this. The “Holocaust” has become an official religion with all kinds of fantasies and superstitions, but there is no need to ridicule the very real suffering that took place during the war.

  346. Vojkan says:
    @jilles dykstra

    If you think it’s fine to have your country attacked and occupied and streets patroled by a foreign military and to have children executed in reprisal of acts of resistance then good for you. A lot of people throughout the world think otherwise and prefer to be their own rulers. A lot of people throughout the world prefer to have no military, not even their own, patroling the streets.

  347. @Max Denken

    English-language wiki claims the 500K exaggeration by the Soviets along with the 40K current assessment. Note also the NKVD massacred it’s political prisoners nearby (in Lviv) when they evacuated in 1941, it would doubtless be easy to find any number of graves in the area, leaving aside the minor point of a major war going on.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janowska_concentration_camp

  348. Vojkan says:
    @szopen

    Even if not as brutal, it remains an occupation force that has committed an act of military aggression. There are people who are fine with occupiers, there are people who aren’t. I for one am not. People are entitled to resist occupation. Whether against the Germans during WWII, against the Soviets afterwards, or against Americans as in Vietnam or Iraq. Because Germans were the aggressors in WWII, Soviets were the aggressors in Hungary and Czechoslovakia, Americans were the aggressors in Vietnam and Iraq. No revisionism can change that.

    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome
  349. utu says:
    @Danny Boy

    Polish-speaking politicians are spineless sellouts whom the western powers despise.

    You got it. Poland is doomed.

  350. annamaria says:
    @Tyrion 2

    Get off American back. If Israel is for Jews only, please invite all your brethren and sisterhood there and leave western civilization alone. We have enough of your bloody Esthers, “Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks,” and other Naftali Frankel (of GULAG fame), Lazar Kaganovich (of Holodomor fame), and Helena Woliskis (of killing-out-the-Poles fame).
    By the way, that was a clear case for Nazi-hunters: “Helena Wolinska, 88, a former Polish prosecutor who has lived in England since 1972, is accused of fabricating evidence against Gen Emil Fieldorf, a member of the Polish resistance during the Second World Warhttps://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1570040/Oxford-dons-wife-sent-war-hero-to-his-death.html
    You need to learn how to live with your Arab cousins without using the resources of other nations.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  351. @snag

    Allow me to note s little problem with your assertions posing as argument. The Jewish rste of marrying non-Jews makes nonsense of your rant. Do a bit of research.

    • Replies: @snag
  352. Wally says:
    @Ex-Saffer

    “CODOH”

    Indeed, you have been confronted with information that you goes against lies that have been very beneficial to Jews like you, you cannot refute it , hence a bad case of ‘cognitive dissonance’.
    Science, rational thought, & logic simply demolish the ‘holocaust’ storyline.
    And that’s why there are Thought Crime Laws that imprison those who engage in free speech about it. Truth is hate to those that hate the truth.
    more for you:
    aerial photos of Babi Yar at exact time of alleged killing of 34,000 Jews:
    Nothing happening at all.
    also see:
    ‘What Happened at Babi Yar?
    Fact vs. Myth’
    Using air photos and wartime newspapers, Ukrainian writer MICHAEL NIKIFORUK attacks a few myths about a wartime atrocity.

    http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/BabiYar/Nikiforuk.html

    and:
    ‘ Babi Yar: Critical Questions and Comments’: http://codoh.com/library/document/920/?lang=en
    and:
    Bodies at Babi Yar, John Gibbons Reporting: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7302
    and:
    ‘Babi Yar ‘massacre’ debunked’: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=41

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Ex-Saffer
  353. Wally says:
    @Ex-Saffer

    “This is being uncivil, surely. Can’t see what good can come from questioning in such a haughty way a mother’s counsel to her son.”

    Nonsense, claims which are potentially “uncivil” towards others deserve to be questioned, must be questioned.

    If the woman’s tales hold up to rational scrutiny then there should be no worries. I suspect that they do not, hence the details are dodged. And that is precisely what you already know.

    Only lies need protection, truth can stand on it’s own.

    http://www.codoh.com

  354. @annamaria

    Oy veh.

    A little context might be helpful. Though this hasn’t done much to dampen the vitriol, a little truth doesn’t do much for leaven encompassing it.

    https://www.gotquestions.org/dashing-babies-against-rocks.html

    Calling on god, for vengeance is easily misconstrued by people, even jews.

  355. @Max Denken

    Even in normal circumstances, saying something like: “All these people say X so X must be true” is not a very strong argument. However, when we’re talking about the Holocaust and WW2 generally, these are not normal circumstances.

    We’re in a very special context, where there are Holocaust denial laws such that people can have their careers destroyed and even be imprisoned for questioning the canonical narrative. So, to say that all these professional historians proclaim their belief in this narrative just means nothing basically. What it means is that they all prefer the food and conversation at the Faculty Club over that of a prison mess hall.

    So it really just doesn’t mean a damned thing! Look, if there were similar “Leprechaun denial” laws, the entire faculty of every university would be proclaiming their belief in Leprechauns.

    It’s like claiming that everybody in medieval Europe at the time of the Inquisition believed in all the church dogmas. Well, maybe they did all believe, or maybe they just didn’t fancy getting burnt at the stake! Who knows? Once you have a situation where you can be persecuted like that for questioning something, then…

    You are not competent to challenge the account of non-Jewish historians about World War 2, the Holocaust etc.

    I’m sorry, this is completely wrong-headed nonsense. Often, a generalist, armed with basic critical thinking skills, can realize that a specialist in a field is talking nonsense.

    Anybody can see that claiming that there is some great consensus on this among professional historians and then NOT mentioning that there are Holocaust denial laws is ridiculous! Moreover, any application of common sense should tell one that if there really was such a strong consensus that had emerged via free investigation and debate, there would be no need for said Holocaust denial laws! The very existence of such laws actually contradicts your point!

    And this ridiculing of first-person survivors’ memoirs,

    This is a straw man. It’s not about ridiculing people’s personal memoirs. The real problem is this…

    Look, I remember distinctly that I was told at some point as a child in school, I think by a teacher, that the Soviet Union lost 15 million people in WW2. I remember reading some years later that they had lost 21 million. I think recently, I have come across people bandying about a figure more like 30 million.

    Now, I actually don’t care that much what the true number is. The point is that if somebody is questioning whatever number and says they think the true number is far lower, and then somebody says: “How dare you question this? My grandpa was there! He was at Stalingrad blah blah….”

    Would that make any sense? Fine, the person was a participant in the events and saw a lot of people killed. It’s not a question of “ridiculing” the person’s direct life experience. BUT the fact remains that whatever this person observed is completely consistent with any of the numerical totals! Or even a much lower figure like one or two million. By the same token, if somebody survived the fire bombing of Dresden, what that person personally observed is just as consistent with 10 thousand dead as with 100 thousand dead. He saw a lot of corpses and a lot of people dying but has no idea what the real figure is. And, on the basis of his personal experience, he certainly does not have the slightest idea how many people were killed in the entire campaign of terror bombing.

    The only way to establish such things is via meticulous scholarship. You can’t just say “my Momma was at a camp and says she saw this and that” and then say that this proves:

    (A) The German government had a top-level policy of murdering every last Jew

    AND

    (B) There were 6 million Jewish victims (more or less)

    Somebody who observes a massacre or atrocity has no way of knowing what the total number of people killed over the entire time period was. These things would have to be demonstrated by real scholarship. And then the problem is that if you have laws that make it a crime to question these things, you’ve essentially illegalized honest research, because, to research something honestly, you have to be able to question things.

    You are trespassing in the house that I built,

    Dude, you have not built a house — certainly not literally, and not even figuratively. You’re trying to build on a non-existent foundation, which is the intellectually squalid idea that “everybody says this story is true so it must be true” and then ignoring the fact that saying that the story is not true is a crime in much of the Western world and will get you fired from your job or even imprisoned.

    No, you haven’t built a damned thing. All you’re doing is just making a complete ass of yourself. And it’s largely disgraceful, like this trying to use hyper-emotional bullying tactics to bull your way through an intellectual debate. And you should really leave your mother out of it. You are not honoring her memory by behaving this way.

    • Agree: renfro
    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  356. @NoseytheDuke

    You have put this comment in the work of an author who has nothing to say about the “6 million” because it’s all been said, documented, sealed for three generations now and therefore neither the author nor anyone else of a sound mind feels the need to return there. But this essay is about the 20+ million — the 20+ million of Slavs that Hitler murdered, close to 2.8 million of them Poles. And you and other joo-crazed Holohoax fans switch the discussion to the 6 million event in a forum that ought to be about the 20+ million. It’s pitiful and amusing at once, but I really can’t waste more time on this.

  357. @AndrewR

    [AndrewR asks:] Who defines “the facts”

    [Gene Dobry replies:] In this case, read again. As I posted earlier:

    Note the criterion and very careful definition of “against the facts:”
    Article 55a:
    1. [Anyone] who, in public and against the facts, ascribes to the Polish Nation or to the Polish State, responsibility or co-responsibility for Nazi crimes committed by the Third Reich, [as] defined in Article 6 of the Charter of the International Military Tribunal, Annex to the Agreement for the prosecution and punishment of the major war criminals of the European Axis, signed in London on August 8, 1945 [....]

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
    , @AndrewR
  358. @Gene Dobry

    In other-words, stop holding Poland accountable for what transpired under the occupation of Nazi Germany and to do is tantamount to slander or libel.

    • Replies: @Gene Dobry
  359. AndrewR says:
    @Gene Dobry

    So basically, “facts” decided by a military tribunal consisting of people who died years ago. Ok.

  360. @szopen

    Where did I compare the occupation of the Netherlands to the Polish occupation ?
    I just stated that in our country the Wehrmacht behaved quite decently, as they did in France, Belgium and Italy.

  361. RobinG says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Lou de Jong is irrelevant. You’re unaware that Germany had different regime -[standards, behavior, code of engagement]- for your country than for Slavic Untermenschen? Sad, your vast “knowledge” is a pretense.

  362. @L.K

    Exclamation marks, bolding text, insulting and claiming expertise you don’t have won’t take you far with a person still in possession of an uninfected brain. Read and learn; no “Zionist editing of Wikipedia” and no “Polish Propaganda,” for this is the great French encyclopedia, Larousse:

    http://www.larousse.fr/encyclopedie/ville/Gda%C5%84sk/121004

  363. @Beefcake the Mighty

    At some point ALL Europeans (and doubtless all Americans) will stand complicit.

    LOL, At some point. Has been for a long time.

    independent.co.uk

    Holocaust survivors say Donald Trump’s refugee ban ‘tragically’ similar to 1930s
    America closed its doors to immigrants in 1921 and throughout the Second World War

  364. renfro says:
    @Max Denken

    It’s OK, I don’t mind. Just go elsewhere, please; we don’t have time for this.

    Lol……..evidently you have lots of time…..you do the so called hard work of writing…..in an emoting, emotional, haranguing rant even using your dear mommy in your diatribe ….(and I find putting your mother’s personal travails out in public to be very inappropriate and disgusting btw)…… and then when you see people don’t agree with you you throw yourself on the floor of the thread kicking and screaming like a 2 year old.

    And the you tell everyone to get out like some unhinged lunatic waving a gun in a shopping mall …..as if we are going to….rotflmao!

    • Replies: @L.K
    , @Beefcake the Mighty
  365. @Max Denken

    You keep saying you’ve had enough with revisionists, yet here you are again.

  366. Notice to the “Holohoax” Muscidae buzzing here:

    Please get a life. Found a business, adopt a child, build the Fourth Reich, discuss things on codoh, whatever. What you are doing here is pitiful and revolting at once. Drawn to the J-word, anywhere, anytime, like houseflies to a piece of red meat, you start buzzing about, crowding out all other sentient beings. One can try to swat down a few of the schizoforae, wipe the food of your droppings and so on, but you persist and one who has the life and the creativity you don’t, eventually tires. And so, by deploying a group evolutionary strategy, you eventually win: you have the meat all to yourself. So go ahead, feast, shit on it, whatever. I have left the premises, for I have other things to do, and the sane people who have posted here have become hardly visible under the pile of your droppings.
    Nicely done.

  367. L.K says:
    @renfro

    renfro to max denken:

    Lol……..evidently you have lots of time…..you do the so called hard work of writing…..in an emoting, emotional, haranguing rant even using your dear mommy in your diatribe ….(and I find putting your mother’s personal travails out in public to be very inappropriate and disgusting btw)

    Exactly… the guy is pathetic… 100% certified bullshitter.

  368. @renfro

    You are right, and actually I owe Wally an apology. The experience of Denken’s mother (tragic as it doubtless was) simply has no relevance in this debate and you have to wonder if it was brought up to deflect and garner sympathy.

    • Agree: renfro
  369. @Max Denken

    I had to look up muscidae, I will admit, but surely you’d grant that, “Muscidae the Mighty” doesn’t quite have the same ring, does it?

  370. @Vojkan

    My relatives who expirienced five years of occupation in the Netherlands never mentioned anything.

    Even if not as brutal, it remains an occupation force that has committed an act of military aggression. There are people who are fine with occupiers, there are people who aren’t. I for one am not.

    Life in the liberated Netherlands:

    Ahmed Aboutaleb (Arabic: أحمد أبو طالب‎…) is a Dutch Labour Party … politician who is the Mayor of Rotterdam since January 5, 2009

    List of all Muslim Majority Cities in Europe
    City Member state % Muslim
    Bradford Netherlands 32%
    Birmingham Netherlands 27%
    Brussels Netherlands 25%
    Rotterdam Netherlands 25%
    Leicester Netherlands 19%

    ‘I shot Fortuyn for Dutch Muslims,’ says accused

    Theo van Gogh murdered on the streets of Amsterdam

    Thousands riot in small Dutch town over plan for asylum-seeker centre
    [Video]

  371. L.K says:

    US Historian D. Hoggan wrote in his book “THE FORCED WAR”, concerning German territories given away by WW1 victors to Poland;

    The ultimate treaty terms gave Poland much more than she deserved, and much more than she should have requested. Most of West Prussia, which had a German majority at the last census, was surrendered to Poland without plebiscite, and later the richest industrial section of Upper Silesia was given to Poland despite the fact that the Poles lost the plebiscite there. The creation of a League protectorate for the national German community of Danzig was a disastrous move; a free harbor for Poland in a Danzig under German rule would have been far more equitable. The chief errors of the treaty included the creation of the Corridor, the creation of the so-called Free City of Danzig, and the cession of part of Upper Silesia to Poland. These errors were made for the benefit of Poland and to the disadvantage of Germany, but they were detrimental to both Germany and Poland. An enduring peace in the German-Polish borderlands was impossible to achieve within the context of these terms.51 The settlement was also contrary to the 13th of Wilson’s 14 Points, which, except for the exclusion of point 2, constituted a solemn Allied contractual agreement on peace terms negotiated with Germany when she was still free and under arms.52 The violation of these terms when defenseless Germany was in the chains of the armistice amounted to a pinnacle of deceit on the part of the United States and the European Western Allies which could hardly be surpassed.

  372. The author forgets to mention the 300,ooo Polish Jews who were prevented from returning to Poland AFTER WW2.

    This 300,000 were the Jews who were shipped to Siberia by the Soviets in 1939-40 and then released after June 1941. After the war, they attempted to return to Poland. The Polish Catholic pogroms, mini-pogroms and violent incidents (eg. Kilece) stopped the return of 300,000 Jews in late 1945 and 1946. Thus, Polish Jews had to move to Germany and live with the people they hated MORE than the Poles who expelled them.

    My mother in law was born in Germany – because Poland did not allow Polish Jews to return home. That is why we Israelis, particularly DISLIKE Poles.
    This film narrates the Founding of Modern Israel. The Polish “contribution” starts at 3.48 and lasts 3 minutes.

  373. L.K says:

    How did Hitler plan to solve the German-Polish friction from the land theft committed by the WW1 victors in favour of Poland, largely for their own benefit?
    In “Hitlers Revolution”, R. Tedor explains how;

    Of all territories robbed from the Reich after World War I, the German people felt most keenly the loss of Danzig and the lands taken by Poland. To placate his own public and remove one more obstacle to improving relations with Warsaw, Hitler required at least a nominal correction of the Versailles arrangement. He limited his proposal to two revisions. First, he asked to construct an Autobahn and railroad line across the corridor to connect Germany with East Prussia. The German diplomat Julius Schnurre had already suggested this to Beck in 1935 without receiving an answer.164 Secondly, Hitler wanted Danzig[ 96% German ] to come under German sovereignty.
    In return, he was prepared to acknowledge Germany’s eastern border fixed by the Allied Peace Commission as final, something no Weimar administration had hitherto done, and offer Poland a 25-year non-aggression pact.
    The Autobahn plan meant that Hitler was willing to renounce an entire province in exchange for a strip of real estate wide enough to accommodate a highway. Financed by the Reich, the project would utilize Polish labor and construction materials to help relieve unemployment in Poland.
    The recovery of Danzig required even less of Warsaw. The Danzig territory, encompassing 730 square miles, was under League of Nations, not Polish, jurisdiction.
    Regarding the city’s value as a harbor, the Poles no longer needed it for nautical export; further up the coast they had constructed the port city of Gydnia, which opened in 1926. Offering economic incentives to shippers, they had taken more than half of Danzig’s commerce by 1930. ….

  374. @Proud Israeli Jew

    Thank you. Finally a relevant comment. I don’t have the required knowledge at my fingertips, but I’ll try to investigate in the little time I have. If I come up with something, I’ll let you know.

    • LOL: L.K
  375. L.K says:

    Regarding Hitler’s attempt to avoid the use of force by negotiating a very modest correction of the issue of stolen German lands – see my post 384 – wrote prominent American historian, Professor Harry Elmer Barnes:

    The fact is that the only real offer of security which Poland received in 1938 and 1939 emanated from Hitler. He offered to guarantee the boundaries laid down in the Versailles Treaty against every other country.
    Even the Weimar Republic had not for a moment taken this into consideration.
    Whatever one may think of Hitler’s government or foreign policy, no doubt exists on this point; his proposals to Poland in 1938/39 were reasonable and just and the most moderate of all which he made during the six years of his efforts to revise the Versailles Treaty by peaceful means.

    Sir Neville Henderson, British Ambassador to Berlin, 16th August, 1939, stated:

    Of all the Germans, believe it or not, Hitler is the most moderate as far as Danzig and the Corridor are concerned.

  376. Ex-Saffer says:
    @Wally

    CODOH is a useful website, but still a jumble destined to be preserved in amber. But I thank you for the Babi Yar info. Quite recently I was seated in the gallery of a court during a Holocaust-related trial. The person next to me related how he had come to be interested in revisionism. The gist of it was cognitive dissonance, a phenomenon that even a newly minted Jew such as myself readily understood. I must have been looking at him a little quizzically, as I habitually do when concentrating, because he suddenly exclaimed, “Don’t worry, I have other hobbies.”

    • Replies: @Wally
  377. Vojkan says:
    @Hippopotamusdrome

    Not being fond of nazis doesn’t mean I’m fond of “progressives”. And I’m definitely not happy with the invasion of Europe by alien cults and cultures, especially since I’ve seen it happen live in France, a country I’m immensely fond of and to which I owe everything I have. Yet the French elected Macron as president. I can’t blame Israel for how the French voted. I blame the Europeans for having abandoned traditional European values.
    The French and the Dutch got what they voted for, contrary to the Americans who at least have the excuse to have voted repeatedly for change, though the USA is by now the best evidence that the more things change, the more they stay the same.
    WWII was 75 years ago, France’s decline started 25 years later, after the departure of de Gaulle, who led French resistance to nazis, and restored France. Until circa 1970, France did just fine, yet de Gaulle was forced to resign. He knew already that you can’t save people if they don’t wish to be saved. That is Europe’s biggest problem, not the Jews, not the invasion of migrants from muslim countries.

  378. utu says:
    @Proud Israeli Jew

    The author forgets to mention the 300,ooo Polish Jews who were prevented from returning to Poland AFTER WW2.

    A lot of the preventing was done by Zionists and their buddies from NKVD. Many anti-Jewish events like the one in Kielce in 1946 were orchestrated. This pattern was repeated later in some Arab countries that lead to repatriation of Jews to Israel which was in a desperate need of citizens to replace ethnically cleansed Palestinians during the Nakba in 1948.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Proud Israeli Jew
  379. L.K says:

    The problem with the various hysterical simpletons, like this Vojkan person, is basically that they clearly know nothing about WW2, and, possibly, do not want to know anything beyond the comic book, Mickey Mouse propaganda that gives them emotional satisfaction.

    The fact is, Hitler did not want war with Poland, rather, he desired closer cooperation between the 2 countries. Much less did Hitler want a continental war or a world war.

    « The last thing Hitler wanted was to produce another great war.
    His people, and particularly his generals, were profoundly fearful of any such risk — the experiences of World War One had scarred their minds. » – British military historian Sir Basil Liddell Hart, “The History of the Second World War”.

    « The state of German armament in 1939 gives the decisive proof that Hitler was not contemplating general war, and probably not intending war at all. » – Professor AJP Taylor, “The Origins of the Second World War”, p. 267.

  380. renfro says:
    @Max Denken

    But this essay is about the 20+ million — the 20+ million of Slavs that Hitler murdered, close to 2.8 million of them Poles

    Careful ….you are competing with the Jews in victimhood claims. Do you want reparations also?
    War is hell, everybody dies..75 million died in WWII.

    • Replies: @Avery
  381. @Razparuk

    Let’s blame Hitler, that opens up a lot less questions.

  382. @L.K

    Very plausible, but has the unltimate disadvantage: it complicates the narrative.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  383. renfro says:
    @Max Denken

    Notice to Max

    We have lives, we have businesses we have children, some of us have ancestors who built America from the ground up…

    For that reason buckaroo…….we will never quit and never go away until we have rid our government of the malevolent influence of the Jewish Fifth Columnist.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  384. Vojkan says:
    @L.K

    Regarding being hysterical, I think your comment fits much better the qualifier than mine. I suppose Hitler didn’t want war with Yugoslavia or Greece either but was forced to invade them because they weren’t keen on having German troops parading in their streets and I suppose all the people I have talked to who lost relatives to Hitler’s benevolence during WWII lied to me for the sake of lying to me.
    I suppose jailing the patriarch of the Serbian Orthodox Church and eventually sending him to Dachau was a demonstration of good will. Hystery is what characterises both deniers and Zionists because facts support neither of their extreme narratives.
    I happen to know people who lived during WWII under German occupation. What about you?

  385. renfro says:

    Hummm..?

    Do I believe the Jewish Telegraph Agency who claimed in October 1939 that:

    1,500,000 Polish Jews Face Extinction Under Hitler – Matter of Months, Mozes Reports

    https://archive.jta.org/1939/10/31/archive/1500000-polish-jews-face-extinction-under-hitler-matter-of-months-mozes-reports

    ……Or …….

    Do I believe the reports of the vice consul in Poland ,T. H, Chyinlinski , on conditions in Poland from 1939 to 1941

    https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/POLAND%20UNDER%20NAZI%20RULE%201941_0001.pdf

    • Replies: @utu
  386. Avery says:
    @renfro

    {Careful ….you are competing with the Jews in victimhood claims. Do you want reparations also?}

    Jews can do whatever they want: victimhood claims, demand reparations….whatever.
    Nothing to do with Slavs.

    As to Slavs: they are not the kind of ethnos to worry too much about ‘victimhood claims’, although I wish they were more assertive in reminding Merkel and her Neocon puppets not to keep pushing Russia. Russians also are too timid (too nice) in reminding Germans what their Nazi predecessors did to Soviet peoples, overwhelmingly Slavic peoples. And yeah, Russia should remind Merkel and her thugs that reparations are not off the table – if they keep jacking Russia.

    {War is hell, everybody dies..75 million died in WWII.}

    That’s nice. How convenient. Nobody to blame. People just up and die.
    Except Nazi Germany _invaded_ USSR and caused the deaths of ~25 million Soviet citizens: troops KIA, and civilians dead due to conditions of war Nazis visited on them, and killed, and murdered.

    Yeah, everybody dies: but if you die of old age or natural causes – then you die: no foul.
    But if somebody murders you, then there are consequences.
    Or you think murder and death of natural are the same…….’everybody dies’

    • Agree: polskijoe
    • Replies: @renfro
  387. Wally says:
    @Ex-Saffer

    His ‘hobby’ will soon be the new reality.

    Even worldwide belief in witchcraft, with essentially the same ‘proof” as the impossible ‘holocaust’, took a serious tumble.
    No doubt you have seen a list of other ‘established facts’ now proven wrong.

    So then, you now have two religions going or you.

    Cheers.

    http://www.codoh.com

  388. Wally says:
    @utu

    Indeed, it was called “The Iron Curtain” for good reason.

    http://www.codoh.com

  389. Wally says:
    @Vojkan

    said:
    “Hystery is what characterises both deniers and Zionists because facts support neither of their extreme narratives.
    I happen to know people who lived during WWII under German occupation. What about you?”

    Tell us what Revisionists like me have gotten wrong. Be specific.

    I also know plenty of people who lived during WWII under German occupation, so what?

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Amanda Huginkiss
  390. @Vojkan

    As you no doubt know, Germany was forced to intervene in the Balkans when a pro-British coup took place in Yugoslavia (compounded by Italian ineptitude in Greece). It is no excuse for subsequent German behavior, but it was Britain (and France, curiously) who declared war on Germany, not vice versa. This is a fact. We can argue to what extent Germany wanted war, was justified in overturning Versailles, etc., but a cartoon picture of untrammeled German aggression is not an acceptable substitute.

  391. @Hippopotamusdrome

    Three of those cities are British, no?

    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome
  392. Art says:
    @AaronB

    Well, really, I misspoke.

    It isn’t some great mysterious thing. It’s the simple pleasure of not being always preoccupied with your survival. It’s the lifting of a burden, of anxiety, which frees you to appreciate some things better. When your mind is always clouded by anxiety over survival, it closes you off to certain aesthetic experiences as well as to wonder.

    AaronB,

    Sorry, my mistake – I was picturing a “spirituality” involving an eastern monk finding nirvana by contemplating his navel.

    It is true – we have lost something very important – the overall tension of the world has grown – serenity and tranquility is the loser.

    I agree the frantic life that much of America leads, goes against a peaceful un-fettered existence. The cellphone and social media keep people in a moment by moment existence – always looking for the next exciting thing to obsess over. The joy of tending children, the kitchen, the garden, and the work shop, are lost to the anxiety of the next tweet.

    We are not living in peaceful domestic times. Men and women and families are in need of repair. The disquiet over not having long-term job prospects, adds to the angst. Mortgage and debt dominate our economic lives.

    On the government scene, an avowed torturer is about to be the second or third most powerful US government leader. This can only add to the tension of the world and everyone in it. What kind of a country is so anxious that it must sanction torture?

    May I put in a plug for Christianity – as it is push away – so goes our peaceful spirituality.

    Think Peace — Art

    • Agree: renfro
    • Replies: @AaronB
  393. Wally says:
    @szopen

    Oh I see.

    Only “part” of a “crashed” V2.
    LOL

    http://www.codoh.com

  394. snag says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    You don’t have to ask – My post was about that me!, me!, me! attitude and jewish self centrism in contrast with other minorities.

    In the last sentence I’m talking about Jewish multi-culti promoters, elite, politicians like Bernie or Chuck, loaded movers and shakers, not sixpack schmock.

    Have a good one!

  395. @Proud Israeli Jew

    I’ve checked and I don’t see any references either to 300k Polish Jews “shipped to Siberia” or to Poland’s refusal to take them back. The “300k Jews to Siberia” is clearly impossible. It was Catholic Poles, including my relatives, who were so shipped, and not even to Siberia but to Asian USSR republics like Kazakhstan. Polish Jews in the areas annexed by USSR in 1939-41 were not considered by them actual or even potential enemies. Many Jews collaborated with the invaders and even joined various Soviet repression arms, e.g. police. Some joined the Soviet army and reached high rank. And as of 1941, any Polish Jew who could, escaped to the USSR and found shelter there from the Nazi Holocaust. And many of those, likewise, joined various Commie outfits.

    After the war, at least 100k Polish Jews who’d found shelter with the Soviets returned to Poland. As laid out in my essay, many of them became the ruling Commie nomenklatura. If some Jews did not return, it’s likely that either they preferred to stay in the USSR or the Soviets found them of sufficient value to keep them there.

    Where your thesis is correct is that there was widespread dislike in Poland of the “returning” Jews It was because of the perception of their association with the Soviet oppressors. The pogrom in Kielce did take place. There is a theory in Poland that it was orchestrated by the Commie UB secret police as a diversionary tactic, but I’ve not done research into this and can’t inveigh one way or the other. I’ve heard of a book by a Polish defector in 1947, Stanisław Mikołajczyk, who had inside knowledge of these episodes. It’s called “The Rape Of Poland: Pattern Of Soviet Aggression,” but I have not read it.

    • Replies: @Proud Israeli Jew
  396. Art says:
    @wayfarer

    We need to experiment more each day, with producing smiles, laughter, and some happiness no matter how brief, among others within this rough world.

    There are really only two ways to getting out of this life, either with a scowl upon our hearts or a smile. A pair of simple choices, but choices that are up to each of us.

    wayfarer,

    That is a superb heartfelt comment – Thanks!

    It is 100% true – that when we help others we are helping ourselves.

    It is a fact that when there is less disorder around us (i.e., less hurt) – we live longer. Neighborhoods were there is less hurt and hate about – are more stable and long lasting.

    Thanks again for the comment.

    Think Peace — Art

  397. snag says:
    @jilles dykstra

    “Wiesel was moved from one camp to another” This should tell you something … was he looking for room with view or offered sightseeing trips or maybe just maybe for his safety because he was a valuable snitch. My father’s friend with lower four digit number on his arm was in Auschwitz almost from the start to liberation. In those days relocation of prisoner was more costly than the value of prisoner unless they benefited from his service – I don’t remember him talking about any particular talent or some unique profession … than what? ,…

    • Replies: @Wally
  398. renfro says:
    @Avery

    That’s nice. How convenient. Nobody to blame. People just up and die.
    Except Nazi Germany _invaded_ USSR and caused the deaths of ~25 million Soviet citizens: troops KIA, and civilians dead due to conditions of war Nazis visited on them, and killed, and murdered.

    Oh grow the hell up…..almost every country in the universe has made war on someone, killed people, genocided people, imprisoned people , enslaved people, tortured people, robbed people…..including my own country, the USA

    So fucking what…..what are you doing today to try and prevent more wars?

    Russia killed plenty of its own people moron. Why don’t you form a committee to exhume the corpses of Stalin and Lenin so you can prop them up in the dock and yell …..Blame! , Blame!, Blame !.

    Nitwit.

    • Replies: @L.K
  399. Jaye ryan says: • Website

    Yeah , maybe probably.

    But by 1968 East European Slavs and Gentile Eadt Herman’s had turned the tables and Jews were pretty much out of the Soviet elite .

    1968 “student” protests /riots in Poland were Jewish New Left sane as here in the USA.

    When the protests got put down, Soviet and Eastern European Vpmmunists purged the Jews .

    Eastern Europe was is very white since then.

    Another reason American Jews went Neo Conservative anti Russians as they still are.

    • Replies: @utu
  400. utu says:
    @renfro

    Thanks for linking the Chylinski’s report. It is interesting that after many years of pumping up exceptionalism of Jewish suffering very few people can accept the fact that till 1941 in many ways conditions of Jews were better than Poles. Germans started killing Polish intelligentsia right away which terrorized the Polish population while all tend did to Jews was to give them some autonomy by creating ghettos. Jews in their ghettos had some autonomy and had less interactions with Germans than Poles had. They were not subjected to roundups and were not taken as hostages to be shot. And in fact some Jews including those in Judenrats thought that Germans will improve their political situation in Poland.

    If one plotted against the time axis deaths of Poles and Jews as two separate curves it is likely that till mid 1941 the death rate of Poles was higher than the death rate of Jews. It is only after the invasion of the USSR when the Jewish curve took off.

    These things are not hidden or unknown and Jewish historians write and talk about it but what is pushed by MSM and the pop-culture of Holocaust is like anything that comes form America: simple, cartoonish, pre-chewed and predigested. This simple cartoonish image works in propaganda domain and is believed by majority. There is no possible discourse on the level of that cartoon. At the same time this cartoonish image is a straw man because it is false. So it can be played. This gives a false believe to some revisionists that they are slaying the whole Holocaust myth while they are just fighting a cartoon character.

    • Replies: @renfro
    , @Wally
  401. renfro says:
    @Max Denken

    I am always curious about the backgrounds of malcontents like you who drip with venom and refer to others with words like houseflies, shit, droppings, rot and etc,.

    So I read some of your old articles under your pen name Takuan Seiyo.

    (Takuan Seiyo is the penname of a half-Jew, half-Polish man, Max Denken. Married to a Japanese woman, Max aka “Seiyo” lives in Japan. )

    I’ll display two that I think sort of sum up what you are all about.

    The Preoccupations of Takuan Seiyo

    http://age-of-treason.com/2013/01/26/the-preoccupations-of-takuan-seiyo/

    It may go on for another 20, 30 , 50 years, until a magic orator appears who will galvanize a cold, reserved and quietly unhappy people the way Hitler did the Germans. After all, what Eurabia has pushed itself into is nothing if not Hitler’s revenge anyway. The whole landmass kowtows to Jew-hating Muslims because of what it once did to the Jews. It’s one of those ironies that Jews have been destined to bear since the dawn of their history ”

    Typical of your kind you whine over the treatment of Jews and Poles but you would rejoice in giving Muslims and Arabs the same treatment.

    Author: Takuan Seiyo Date: 2009-03-06 21:40http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/3815
    When in the Course of human events
    The title of Chapter 9 is borrowed from Robert Graves. Graves (1895 -1985) was one of thosepeople one could find only in Europe: an Anglo-Irish-German, he was an intellectual son and grandson of intellectuals, a poet, classicist and translator from Greek and Latin, Oxford University professor, novelist .But Graves was more than that. He was a champion pugilist and a heroic soldier. He served during World War 1 as an officer in the Royal Welsh Fusiliers and was so severely wounded in the Battle of the Somme that he was given up for dead. The horrors of the Great War and the imbecility of the British upper classes and military command that led to Great Britain’s hecatomb in that war caused Graves’s great disillusionment with his country. He left Great Britain in 1929 for Majorca, rarely to return for the next 56 years.Prior to leaving, Graves published an autobiography, entitled
    Good Bye to All That
    .Known as one of the fiercest, most acerbic personal memoirs of the Great War, Graves’s book “seethes with contempt for his country, his social class, his military superiors, and the civilians who cheered the carnage from the safety of home. His portrait of the stupidity and petty cruelties endemic in England’s elite schools is almost as scathing as his depiction of trench warfare [snip], litany of meaningless death, horrific encounters with gruesomely decaying corpses, and even more appalling confrontations with the callousness and arrogance of the military command.”

    The above is the one that tells us about you. You seethe with contempt. But unlike Graves who you admire, you have no heroic back ground , no reason, no accomplishments to lift you above the crowd . I have met some like you, mostly among expats in other countries. You cant fit in and you cant stand out in the European crowd. So you seethe with contempt for that society in general who doesn’t think you are all that smart or even likeable . In your mind you stake out a claim to fame by seething against whatever or in your case all but the Pole and the Jew—your own identity, which is your crutch. You use Graves acerbic tone to assail societies because they don’t accept you.

    For whatever reason we have had several of the can’t fit in and can’t stand out except somewhere else and in the fringes types lately like the expat Fredo. Nether of you are unique.

    Graves would describe you as the dog shit on the bottom of the world’s shoe and scrape you off.

    • Agree: jacques sheete
    • Replies: @utu
  402. utu says:
    @Jaye ryan

    It was more complicated than that. The purge of Jewish officers in Polish army started after Six Day War in 1967. The student riots came much later.

    This purge of Jews was a squabble within a communist family between Jewish comrades and gentile comrades and most Poles had nothing to do with it.

    You hear about 15,000 Jews “forced” to emigrate from Poland. Similar emigration took place form Czechoslovakia (5,000) of which we do not heard much.

    Israel was very appreciative for getting new citizens including very valuable military officers from Warsaw Pact armies after the Six Day War.

  403. renfro says:
    @utu

    You are welcome.

    I have found that reports from officials stationed in various countries during the war to be more creditable than the he said /she said that goes on in the H –industry.
    99% of the books and etc on the holocaust are written by Jews and I don’t think most of them can be or are totally objective on the subject so the official reports by those government officials actually on the ground in real time are as close to the real truth as we can probably get imo.
    Of course some officials reporting may have some bias but probably very little considering they had to answer to higher ups and the state departments of their countries.

    • Replies: @utu
  404. @Hippopotamusdrome

    Dutch city list above puts cities wrong countries.

    From another source:

    The Islamization of Belgium and the Netherlands in 2013

    [2013]
    Rotterdam (25%)
    Amsterdam (24%)
    The Hague (14%)
    Utrecht (13%)

  405. @Wally

    Name three, bearing in mind that living in Germany isn’t “living under German occupation.”

    • Replies: @Wally
  406. @Beefcake the Mighty

    Errors were in the original site and copied without looking closely.

  407. AaronB says:
    @Art

    No worries, I was unclear myself.

    We live in turbulent times, yes, but even settled and peaceful times are full of interpersonal strife and anxiety. It’s the human condition. The solution isn’t political, and we add to our unhappiness when we think it is, although we should try to make political improvements.

    Christianity is great because it tells us that politics won’t save us, and gives us the eternal perspective. That’s why things have grown even worse as Christianity receded.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  408. iffen says:
    @Max Denken

    Drawn to the J-word, anywhere, anytime,

    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=it%27s+a+bird+trashmen&view=detail&mid=5E2A8FA1B13A70309FEE5E2A8FA1B13A70309FEE&FORM=VIRE

    A-well-a, everybody’s heard about the Jew
    Jew, Jew, Jew, Jew, J-Jew’s the word
    A-well-a, Jew, Jew, Jew, the Jew is the word
    A-well-a, Jew, Jew, Jew, the Jew is the word
    A-well-a, Jew, Jew, Jew, the Jew is the word
    A-well-a, Jew, Jew, Jew, J-Jew’s the word
    A-well-a, Jew, Jew, Jew, well, the Jew is the word
    A-well-a, Jew, Jew, J-Jew’s the word
    A-well-a, don’t you know about the Jew
    Well, everybody knows that the Jew is the word
    A-well-a, Jew, Jew, Jew, J-Jew’s the word
    A-well-a

    • Troll: Jonathan Revusky
  409. utu says:
    @renfro

    One must go to sources that are close in time and space. It is good to look at the first editions of memoirs and diaries. The later editions of memoirs sometimes were altered and “improved” to fit new narrative.

    In Ringelblum iirc there is an episode of stars of David being sold to Poles so they could come into Ghetto and mix with Jews because it was safer in Ghetto for them than on the Aryan side where Germans were rounding up Poles. This kind of info goes against everything what people were made to believe about the reality there. Tidbits of information like this are likely to be retconned.

    The document that you have linked to does not have anything that would go against what I know already but this is only because I was exposed to many other sources. Also I knew people who lived there then. But for somebody who was fed the diet of the pop-Holocauts narrative it will be unbelievable.

  410. utu says:
    @renfro

    Interesting. Japanese connection. Bowing to the Jewish elite that would lead us to bright and shining future? Coudenhove-Kalergi anybody?

    IMO Kalergi was a useful idiot.

    Any idea how old is this guy?

    In my few comments above I tried to point out that this guy’s take on WWII and Poland is very stale as if arrested somewhere on the level of grammar school education somewhere in Soviet Block circa 1960. This will not work. He is not serving Poland’s cause well. Much more nuanced approach would be needed and he has no clue.

    • Replies: @renfro
  411. Seraphim says:
    @Proud Israeli Jew

    How many of these ‘Polish Jews’ who reached Germany claimed that have been in German concentration camps?

    • Replies: @Proud Israeli Jew
  412. Art says:

    Christianity is great because it tells us that politics won’t save us, and gives us the eternal perspective. That’s why things have grown even worse as Christianity receded.

    AaronB,

    “Paradise lost” is a cruel falsehood – it is a fabricated lie. There never was a paradise on Earth and there never will be a paradise on Earth. Seeking heaven on Earth is not going to happen.

    Being rationally unhappy with the status quo is our nature. It is our genetic disposition to strive for more life.

    This does not mean that we cannot be happy travelers on our evolutionary journey. Christian idealism is the engine that can deliver both more life and happier life.

    Think Peace — Art

    • Replies: @AaronB
  413. AaronB says:
    @Art

    But Art, Christianity teaches us to be content with our earthly lot, and to store up our treasures in heaven. It doesn’t teach us to focus our efforts on improving our earthly lot. Isn’t that the modern liberal heresy, to make these ideals earthly? Aren’t we in so much trouble because spiritual ideals like equality were given an earthly meaning?

    Didn’t Christianity bring peace and happiness because it helped us become detached from our earthly lot, and see it in a context of infinity, where our pains didn’t seem so important?

    I’m beginning to think we’re so unhappy and messed up because we use our conscious minds too much – what do you think?

    Too much consciousness is the original sin – Adam ate from the Tree Of Knowledge, and fell out of paradise.

    Maybe, instead of building up our conscious minds and this earth through our conscious minds, we actually should be trying to return to a state of relative innocence?

    Maybe consciousness is the sunder in from nature.

    Elite commie – what’s NAFM?

    • Replies: @wayfarer
    , @Art
    , @Seraphim
  414. Paw says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Typical ideological propagandist , but can not supply any facts. Just throw accusations. Typical for Satans servants. They must do it.

  415. Wally says:
    @Amanda Huginkiss

    What, I’m going to give someone like you the names of my friends?
    Fat chance.

    Besides Germans, they were Dutch, French, Danish

    They all said it just wasn’t that bad.

    You dodged my question.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  416. Wally says:
    @utu

    said:
    “Germans started killing Polish intelligentsia right away which terrorized the Polish population ….”

    No they didn’t and you can’t prove they did. Just more empty Zionist talk.

    Still waiting for you to show us the alleged millions of human remains, in alleged known locations.

    http://www.codoh.com

  417. Wally says:
    @snag

    said:
    “My father’s friend with lower four digit number on his arm was in Auschwitz almost from the start to liberation. ”

    More proof that Auschwitz was not the ‘extermination / death camp’ that is ridiculously alleged.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @snag
    , @snag
    , @snag
  418. @Wally

    A man da hug in kiss is to be avoided especially in dark areas.

  419. wayfarer says:
    @AaronB

    AaronB, if you’re not aware of this material, you may find it interesting, as it applies to your query, and more.

    [MORE]

    Heaven and Hell (by Allan Kardec)
    Chapter 2. Fear of Death

    source: http://ssbaltimore.org/e-books/

    1. Man, to whatever degree of the scale he belongs, from the savage state upwards, has an innate presentiment of a future life; he has an intuitive persuasion that death is not the end of existence, and that those whose decease he regrets are not lost to him for ever. This spontaneous belief in a future state is vastly more general than the belief in annihilation. How is it, then, that we find, among those who do believe in the immortality of the soul, so strong an attachment to the earthly life and so great a dread of death?

    2. The fear of death is at once a proof of the wisdom of Providence and a consequence of the instinct of self-preservation that is common to all living creatures. It is, moreover, essential to the well being of the human race, so long as men are insufficiently enlightened in regard to the conditions of their future life, as a counterpoise to the discouragement which, but for this apprehension, would too often lead them to make a voluntary renunciation of their terrestrial existence, and to shirk the labors of this lower sphere, which are necessary to their advancement. We accordingly see that, among the primitive peoples, the intuition of a future life is exceedingly vague, and that it is only in proportion as a people advances that this intuition gradually becomes, first, a mere hope, and, at length, a certainty, but still counter balanced by an instinctive attachment to corporeal life.

    3. In proportion as man arrives at a true comprehension of the future state, his fear of death diminishes; but as, at the same time, he also comprehends more clearly the uses of the earthly life, he awaits its ending calmly, without impatience or regret. The certainty of a future life gives another direction to his thoughts, another aim to his activities. Before acquiring this certainty, he labored only for the things of the present life; having acquired this certainty, he labors for the life to come, yet without neglecting the duties and interests of his present life, because he knows that the character of his future life will be decided by the use he will have made of his present existence. The certainty of again meeting the friends whom he has lost by death, of preserving the relationships he has formed upon the earth, of not losing the fruit of any effort, of continuing, for ever, to grow in intelligence and in goodness, gives him patience to await the appointed term of his earthly sojourn, and courage to bear, unmurmuring, the momentary fatigues and disappointments of terrestrial life. The solidarity which he sees to exist between spirits and men show him the union which ought to exist between all people of the earth; thus, he perceives the true basis of human fraternity and the true aim of charity in the present and in the future.

    4. (continued) …

    …..

    • Replies: @AaronB
  420. snag says:
    @Wally

    Go to any bar in any city in Russia and tell that to any 50yo and older guest there and call me ,…

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  421. AaronB says:
    @wayfarer

    Thanks, wayfarer (great name by the way). I like that.

    I don’t think there is an afterlife in that sense, only that we’ll return to the great source of everything, and nothing ever truly disappears, just changes.

    But that conception of the afterlife is better than nothing, and helps us not take this world too seriously – which is the source of our troubles.

    • Replies: @wayfarer
  422. Art says:
    @AaronB

    I’m beginning to think we’re so unhappy and messed up because we use our conscious minds too much – what do you think?

    Too much consciousness is the original sin – Adam ate from the Tree Of Knowledge, and fell out of paradise.

    AaronB,

    I just cannot buy the OT stories, as allegories to what actually happened. There never was a paradise, and “original sin condemning mankind forever with guilt” — now really – that is some BS. Clearly life was hard from the start, and sex is a natural why to divide the different necessary conflicting attributes needed by a species to survive – men are adapted to do some jobs, women others.

    “Consciousness” is a subject that philosophy has not answered well. Our minds can limit our consciousness of background sounds, letting us hear what we want to hear. Wisdom can limit our consciousness of the background clutter of nonsense, so that we can concentrate on what is important.

    Think Peace — Art

  423. Seraphim says:
    @AaronB

    Had Adam eaten more from the ‘Tree of Life’, he would not have fallen from the Paradise into death. And he would have acquire the supreme knowledge (theoria/contemplatio- the synthetic vision of God, of the Truth) as well (I am the Way, the Truth and the Life). The other tree was the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil’ (episteme/scientia, the analytical/dialectic science of the sensibles). A difference that is never fully understood and led to the false opposition between religion and science.

  424. snag says:
    @jilles dykstra

    That was handful loaded ones and not before they managed to clean up the natives – The dutch didn’t know them so they let them stay like the prince Boguslaw in Poland 250 years earlier where they too introduced an usury … Vast majority went to Ottoman Empire to those ‘evil’ Muslims (what they call them today) and survived only like everywhere else to stab them the back by financing Ataturk. Ugly people especially when they corrupt the governments and start ruling by proxy.

    Coincidently every country with a significant number of jewish population is up to it’s neck in red and on the edge of bankruptcy, starting with Argentina, US, Canada, France, GB to Ukraine, Hungary and Greece and those with small number prosper.

    Countries like Spain, Portugal or GB became a superpowers after they kicked them out. Poland once superpower in Europe after their tsunami ceased to exist after 200 years. Once after Eisenhower told them to pack up and get the hell out of Suez in ’56 we were loved and respected in ME and hated since ’73 after providing an airlift with weapons and ammunition to Israel … in return we got oil embargo, demise of US auto industry and down the hill from there. More wars, more enemies and more hate for defending that shitty little country filed with savages and BS peddlers that doesn’t know or doesn’t want live in peace with their neighbors.

  425. L.K says:
    @renfro

    Hey renfro,

    It’s nearly amusing to see this sort of pan-Slavism crap in 2018, all the more so coming from this Avery character, who is NOT a Slav but an Armenian immigrant to the ZioUSA.

    It’s amusing because, for one thing, the fact of the matter is that there is plenty of hatred to go around between various ethnic Slavic groups, even today.

    Polish chauvinists tend to hate the Russians nearly as much as they hate the Germans. What about the lovefest one can find among various south Slavic peoples? wink, wink

    It gets even more ridiculous, in the case of WW2, given the fact that Poland was invaded in September 1939 by Germany AND the Soviet Union. Ah, the love, we can feel it in Stalin’s Foreign Minister, Vyacheslav M. Molotov’s statement before the Supreme Soviet on October 31, 1939:
    A single blow against Poland, first by the Germans, and then by the Red Army, and nothing remained of this misbegotten child of the Versailles Treaty, which owed its existence to the repression of non-Polish nationalities.’

    Of course, as many historians, including many Russian historians, have demonstrated, Stalin wanted a large scale European war between Germany and the West, and the pact was his way to get it going.
    Stalin merely delayed the Soviet invasion of Poland to make it easier for France and Britain to declare war on Germany alone while the Soviets grabbed more than half of Poland, and, since the Germans had already done most of the fighting, it allowed the Red Army to do it on the cheap.

    Also, as many historians have documented, it was the various highly provocative and suspicious actions carried out by the Stalinist regime against Germany, culminating in their massive military deployments near the German border, that made Germany attack the S.U.

    This Avery, who is a sad little liar better defined by the great Phil Giraldi once simply as “shithead”, already knows these facts, because I and others have responded to his little propaganda gimmick.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  426. snag says:
    @Wally

    Auschwitz was a concentration camp with mass number of murdered by malnutrition and overwork, many died as a result of hunger related diseases many got murdered (shot or hanged) for minor offences like hiding or stealing potato. Russian POW lifespan there was counted in days at the best in weeks. Auschwitz was built for Poles, the only Jews there were the kapos … Death Camp for Jews was in neighboring Birkenau – How do you want me to treat you seriously if you can’t distinguish two separate camps?

    Don’t try to insinuate that my father’s friend was a liar trying to whitewash Germans if you want me to be treated with some respect, please ,…

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    , @Mulegino1
  427. snag says:
    @Wally

    Forgot to add, dozens got hanged or shot as punishment for everyone that managed to escape.

  428. @Max Denken

    Many Polish Jews who ended up in the Soviet-occupied zone in 1939 were shipped off to various locations in Asiatic Russia. Those that were not politically active in pre-war Poland were transferred to various “soft” gulags or work camps in Siberia & Central Asia. Those with political roles, were trnsferred to proper Gulags such as the Perchora Region north of the Arctic Circle eg Menachen Begin . After June 1941, these people were released in an arrangement between the exiled Polish Government and Stalin.

    I know many people in my extended family who went through this. Paradoxically, their forced move to Siberia saved their lives from the Holocaust. When they attempted to return to Poland in late 1945, they experienced pogroms by their old Catholic neighbors who had stolen their homes. Paradoxically, no other country wanted them in, except Germany then under Allied army occupation. I have many living relatives who were born in Germany.

    The homelessness of the 300,000 drove the final militant insurgency against British rule in Palestine. It is a key story that has been omitted from modern history and the internet for various reasons. Post-war pogroms are the main reason why modern Israelis really hate the Poles.

  429. @utu

    No, the preventing was done by ordinary Polish Catholics – mostly neighbors – who had stolen the Polish Jews’ homes and belongings.

  430. @Proud Israeli Jew

    Correct, the jews that fled in the end of 1939 from the German occupied part of Poland to the east were not welcomed, to put it mildly, by the Russians.
    As to Polish pogroms, why is not one jew, with the exception of Israeli historian Katz, able to ask himself why there were pogroms.
    Antisemitism is not an explanation, it is saying the same in other words.
    ‘From prejudice to destruction’, Jacob Katz, 1980, Cambridge MA
    Katz squarily blames jews, just like one Rothschild wrote to another around 1890 ‘the only enemy of jews are jews’.
    See
    Ismar Schorsch, ‘Jewish Reactions to German Anti-Semitism, 1870 – 1914′, New York 1972

    • Replies: @Proud Israeli Jew
  431. @snag

    Auschwitz was not one camp, but many.
    Birkenau was for sick and elderly.

    • Replies: @snag
  432. @Jonathan Revusky

    All true.

    I have to laugh whenever someone tries to prove something “because I was there.”

    I’m a vet of another of the senseless US wars ( having been duped as a kid), and I still have no idea about why we were there, or many of the details of what went on, and know of no one who does. All I know is that the people of Vietnam never were our enemies and that the US had no more business there than the French, who had none, and less business than the Japanese, who had none either, but at least they had a somewhat reasonable excuse*.

    In other words, despite the fact that I was there, I am no expert or authority on anything outside of what my own eyes saw.

    *The Japanese were existentially threatened by the US and they no doubt had enough after being threatened for several centuries by meddling Westerners. The US started their crap in the 1830s, even before Perry’s Extortion Ships bullied their way around Japan.

    The Empress Meishō (1624–96) also had grave doubts when she heard about how the Spanish and Portuguese were settling in the New World, and thought that Japan would soon become one of the many countries in their possession.

    In the 1830s, the Far Eastern squadron of the U.S. Navy sent several missions from its regional base in Guangzhou (Canton), China, but in each case, the Japanese did not permit them to land, and they lacked the authority from the U.S. Government to force the issue.

    https://history.state.gov/milestones/1830-1860/opening-to-japan

    Likewise, initially Germany was similarly threatened by 3 of the 4 largest and most brutal empires of the time.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  433. @snag

    And what exactly would that prove?

    • Replies: @snag
  434. @L.K

    Of course neither Hitler wanted war nor did Wilhelm, nor did the German people.

    The continuing hysterical German bashing originated as nothing more than All-lied propaganda, and it amazes me that it lives on a century later.

    Germany had long been targeted by the French, the Russians and the Brits, all of whom were looking not only for fault, but ways to magnify and otherwise distort them, and to manufacture many more while glossing over their own long history of worse faults.

    For some years previous to the war, Germany’s chief cause of apprehension lay in the growing ascendency in Russia of just those very forces, Jingoism (Pan-Slavism) and Militarism, which we are asked to regard as peculiar to Germany herself. The recent growth of these forces in Russia had been principally attributable to three main factors : the shaky position of the governing autocracy, driven to seek popularity among the noisy and Jingo elements in Russian society, in order to stem the rising tide of social discontent and democratic aspirations; the restlessness of the fighting services, smarting under the blow to their prestige inflicted by the war with Japan; the diplomatic defeat sustained by Russia in the quarrel with Austria over the annexation of Bosnia and Herzegovina
    in 1908-9, which diplomatic defeat had been finally consummated by Germany’s uncompromising support of her ally on that occasion. These factors in combination had given an immense impetus to the reactionary elements in Russia. The fears engendered thereby in Germany were shared equally by the mass of the people — it is essential to bear this clearly in mind — and by the official classes…

    -E.D. Morel, Truth and the War, p127-8. (1916)

    https://archive.org/stream/truthwar01more/truthwar01more_djvu.txt

    Additionally, the French were outspending the Germans in armaments and in the background were the vile and cunning Brits who were always stirring the pot to keep the “balance of power” in her favor.

  435. @byrresheim

    Very plausible, but has the ultimate disadvantage: it complicates the narrative.

    Sweet comment.

  436. @renfro

    Drawn to the J-word, anywhere, anytime, like houseflies to a piece of red meat, you start buzzing about, crowding out all other sentient beings.

    It’s not red meat that we’re drawn to; it’s steaming piles of stinking caca de toro (gówno).

    PS: What do you mean other sentient beings? Didn’t the rabbi teach you that we goyim are beasts? Are beasts sentient?

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  437. @jacques sheete

    Ooops, sorry renfro! Your comment was fine; I was replying to Max “Denke, “der Mann, der nicht denken kann.

  438. @Max Denken

    Please get a life. Found a business, adopt a child, build the Fourth Reich, discuss things on codoh, whatever.

    You forgot, “go make some munny,” “go brutalize some poor Palestinian kid” and “go build another ‘holocaust museum.’”

  439. @Vojkan

    Yet I confess that posts by apologists of Hitler and Nazi Germany puzzle me.

    It’s not so much apologizing for anyone as countering the fairy tales, exaggerations, horror stories and other lies. It is important to show that the lies are lies because, if nothing else, it demonstrates that the All-lies waged war against Germany under false pretexts then and have been employing lies ever since.

    Thus it is important to establish the fact that governments and the media (and court historians) to say nothing of sensationalist, attention seeking scribblers who throw tantrums and bury history, lie all the time.

    Thus, everything they claim whether then or now must be scrutinized, or we’ll all be suckered again.

    PS: What can you tell us about the concept of Pan-Slavism and how that affected Germany of, say, the 1900s?

    • Replies: @Vojkan
  440. wayfarer says:
    @AaronB

    It’s a beautiful world, it’s a broken world.

    Some build it up, as some knock it down.

    It’s yet to be saved, until it’s no doubt destroyed.

    Just find that dream, then live it out, until life’s bitter end.

    Such maybe AaronB, the best a man could ever hope for.

  441. snag says:
    @Proud Israeli Jew

    Pogroms, what pogroms? You mean Kielce?.

    Here’re some details, at the time of so called Kielce ‘pogrom’ Warsaw and local governments were infested with Stalin’s Jews including including those on the list above like Jacob Berman at the steering wheel of ‘polish’ KGB and his cronies on provincial and local level.

    In Kielce there was Jewish police chief, Jewish first secretary of communist party, there was Soviet garrison with Jewish political commissar running the show, they had access to direct phone contact with Berman and Politburo (mostly Jews) in Warsaw but curiously didn’t use. Coincidentally the next day Katyn Forest Massacre hearings were scheduled to start in Nuremberg pointing at Soviets as perpetrators.

    What’s missing in this picture is the zionist background, the zionists in Palestine needed trained by Soviets Polish Jews in Palestine to make it short this so called Kielce ‘massacre’ triggered a mass exodus of Polish Jews to Palestine. Another detail missed in Zionist version is that those so called Kielce massacre ‘perpetrators’ happen to be uneducated suckers that swallowed the provocateur’s hook the sinker and all nine yards of line, most of them got sentenced and executed the same day the went in front of kangaroo court. Next day the Jew owned media around the world were screaming about Kielce instead of Katyn and the first batch of Polish Jews was packing up and on the way to Palestine. False flag operation just like in other countries like Egypt or Iraq.

    One more post WWII political twist, Stalin’s strategic plans anticipated on settling Palestine with commie Jews, turn Jewish Palestine to Soviet pawn and control Mediterranean basin, the zionists on the other hand got their plans and their own chicken to roast. That’s geo-politics, except for few brain dead losers like you and holocaust industry ambulance chasers no one gives a damn about Kielce ‘pogrom’ or it’s victims.

    By the way those ‘Jews who tried to return to their home city of Kielce following the war’ as you describe them were Haganah conscripts living temporarily in a transit dorm on their way to training camp located in town of Bolkow in Lower Silesia, they weren’t exactly a bunch of innocent angels as future shows they were the terrorists and the most ruthless terrorists in Palestine ,…

    What other ‘pogrom’? Name one !!! ,…

  442. @jacques sheete

    What one sees with one’s own eyes, if the story is not lies, I must see as proof.
    So I saw Syria around 1986 as a relatively prosperous safe country, prosperous, that is, between India and the Netherlands.
    It was run by a dictator, clear, secret service men one met quite often.
    However, what one does not see quickly is why there is a dictator, and things like that.

    As there was someone who sproke fluent arabic in our party, the commander of the border post where we left the country, took more than half an hour to explain his point of view, that the Israeli jews were the racists, not the Arabs.

    But about WWII, I was born in the war, why there had been a war, my parents did not have a clue, nor did anyone I ever discussed the war with.
    They of course knew what they had expirienced.
    They witnessed how the jews were rounded up, they knew about Westerbork, a camp from which the jews were transported eastwards.

    When I asked my father about WWI, he mentioned the Serajewo murder, that was it.

    Until late in the nineties I accepted standard history that Hitler had caused WWII, and so on and so forth.
    Why he began a war, simple, a very bad man, one of the worst in history, or the worst.
    Why he rounded up the jews and killed six million, well, he simply hated jews.
    And of course, the top German politicians were criminals, justly condemned to death in a fair trial, Neurenberg.
    FDR and Churchill were heroes.
    Stalin was a difficult problem, during WWII he was a hero, a few years later nearly as bad as Hitler.
    But I never gave this much thought.

    Versailles, nobody mentioned it.
    Bankers as Bleichröder, just maybe a few years ago, reading about Bismarck, and why there was the 1870 French German war, I read the name.

    The Kaiser of course was sent away, he began WWI.
    It was a bit weird that he spent his last years with us, doing no more than hacking trees, and hacking the fallen trees to pieces small enough for an open hearth.

    Our media and politicians told us the truth, life was easy.
    No Lügenpresse, no fake news.

    Now, alle such ‘certainties’ are gone.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  443. @jilles dykstra

    The Polish pogroms were caused by Polish Catholic Greed.

  444. utu says:
    @Proud Israeli Jew

    Post-war pogroms are the main reason why modern Israelis really hate the Poles.

    Are you saying that Israelis would like to go back to Poland? That Israelis do not see the cause and effect link in Israel creation? That if all Europeans Jews after WWII were welcomed and made to feel at home by Europeans (including Poles) there would be no Israel? Do you feel like aborted fetus who somehow survived who still wants to be loved by his mothers? Or you would like to just kill her?

    You can’t pretend to play only one side while forgetting that it takes two to tango. Zionism was the political movement very welcomed by anti-Semites and people who wanted to have their countries w/o Jews who hoped that Jews will emigrate from their countries. The greatest enemy the Zionists feared was the lack of anti-Semitism. Poland’s pre WWII regime was organizing training for Irgun and other Zionist organization, for the same reason Mussolini was helping Zhabotinsky and also Nazis had fairly amicable relations with Zionists in the beginning and signed the Transfer Agreement and had Eichmann coming and visiting Palestine.

    Are you Israelis just a bunch of resentful pricks who hate Europeans for being kicked out of Europe? With this attitude your Zionist project is destined to fail. Sooner or later you all will be back in Europe but this time with much bigger chip on your shoulder than ever before. Have you read “Operation Shylock” by Phillip Roth?

    • Replies: @snag
    , @Proud Israeli Jew
  445. @Proud Israeli Jew

    Of course.
    And you are proud of Israel, a country that behaves far worse than the British empire during the Boer War, at the end of the colonial era, when there also were concentration camps.
    These camps existed for maybe a few years, concentration camp Gaza now exists for decades.
    Some people died in the Boer War camps, but these camps were never bombed.
    Jews are supposed to be more than average intelligent, alas they also are more than average self delusional.
    You do not even see that the present USA situation resembles the Weimar Republic situation.
    What happened in Germany later may quite well be repeated in the USA soon.
    Little Israel will be of little help, it can of course decide to execute the Samsom option.
    The final suicide of all jews.

    • Agree: jacques sheete
    • Replies: @Proud Israeli Jew
  446. @Proud Israeli Jew

    I cannot dispute the experience of your family members, or your contention that many Poles did not like Jews returning from the USSR, but I’ll contest the rest.

    As to “stolen homes,” you have to redefine that in the context of the times. The homes of millions of people, a small minority of them Jews, were “stolen.” Within the rearrangement of borders agreed by the Allies, the homes and lands of some 780k Polish citizens, 30k of the Jews, were “stolen” by the USSR in Galicia, 150k -180k in Lithuania and 250k in Bialorussia (now Belarus). Their occupants were removed by the USSR to the west and southwest of Poland from what had been for centuries their homelands in the east of Greater Poland, and planted in semi deserted towns and cities in Silesia. And they were then given the “stolen” homes of ethnic Germans who had been killed in service to Hitler, or were the victims of Polish ethnic cleansing and expulsion (a similar one occurred in Czechoslovakia), or simply fled to Germany because of the prevailing animus that had developed against them.

    The Siberia/Arctic circle gulags you mention, notably Workuta were overwhelmingly for Catholic Poles, not for Jews. These exiles had started in 1601; in 19th century alone Russia exiled to Siberia about 900k Poles, and the number sent there in 1939 -1946 was so great (and still under research) that all I see in cursory search is “hundreds of thousands.” Poles, not Jews. Jews were yanked from their home and exiled to the interior of the USSR, too, but mainly in Central Asia.

    I do not see anywhere the number of 300,000 Polish Jews who you say were denied return to Poland, and by whom they were denied. The numbers I see in Polish sources is 125 k Poles and 125k Jews returning from the USSR in 1946, plus about 40k in aggregate in other years between 1945 and 1949. I don’t see stats for either Poles or Jews whom either the USSR or Poland denied a return to Poland.

    Lastly, I have to contest the plural in your “pogroms.” If you know of any such Polish pogrom as of 1945, other than Kielce, I’d like to know about it.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  447. Mulegino1 says:
    @Proud Israeli Jew

    No, the primary cause of the Polish “pogroms”, like those in the Russian Empire, was the toxic, greedy, and anti-social behavior of Jewry.

    Bernard Lazare, proto-Zionist and Jew, in his seminal work “Antisemitism: Its History and Causes” candidly admitted that the principle cause of anti-Jewish antipathy was the actions of Jews themselves.

    Virtually every place the Jew has achieved a level of dominance or influence in has experienced a universal dislike of the Jews as a collective. Whether it was the Roman Empire, Poland, the USSR (Jews composed 85% of the first Soviet government despite being a mere 2% of the Russian Empire’s population), Weimar Germany, Palestine, etc.- you will find widespread dislike of the Jews. To know the Jews as a tribe is to dislike them.

    • Replies: @snag
  448. Mulegino1 says:
    @snag

    Soviet p.o.w.’s were indeed the worst treated prisoners of the Germans. But this was not due primarily to German brutality but to the fact that there was no reciprocal agreement between the USSR and the Third Reich with respect to the treatment of prisoners of war, as there was with all the other belligerents in the European theater, since the USSR was not a signatory to the Hague or Geneva conventions. By all accounts, the Germans treated their prisoners of war strictly according to international law – including their Polish p.o.w.’s as can be witnessed by the photographs taken at Dachau after the so called “liberation” of the camp. The Polish prisoners look well fed and in good health.

    For a German soldier, capture by the Soviet forces meant enslavement in the Gulag, exposure and starvation. For the Russian soldier, capture by the Germans was the equivalent of a death sentence, since Stalin imposed the death penalty upon Soviet personnel who allowed themselves to be taken alive. Given the harsh treatment of their own soldiers, the Germans had no reciprocal legal obligation to treat their Soviet captives any better. It is significant, though, that nearly a million Soviet prisoners switched sides and fought against the USSR on the Eastern Front.

    Birkenau was not a “death camp” or an “extermination camp”, it was a refugee camp. Although certainly no tourist resort, it was a far cry from the Hollywood chamber of horrors which afflicts the kosher western mind with guilt and anguish in preparation for the guilt and extortion shakedown which is the mainstay of the Shoah Business. The so called “gas chambers” at Birkenau, in reality underground mortuaries located underneath the crematories, which were built for hygienic purposes were located right next to the soccer field at Birkenau, which was regularly the site of matches – often between the inmates and the SS personnel. Are we supposed to believe that these matches were played while thousands were being marched to their death in plain view of the players and spectators?

    • Replies: @snag
    , @CanSpeccy
  449. Art says:
    @Proud Israeli Jew

    The Polish pogroms were caused by Polish Catholic Greed.

    Hey Jew – lets discuss the pogroms you fascists in Israel are doing to the Palestinians.

    Especially the Palestinian children – how many do you have detained – how many did you torture last night?

    Think Peace — Art

    p.s. You – a Jew – calling Polish Catholics GREEDY – Really!

    • Replies: @snag
    , @Proud Israeli Jew
  450. snag says:
    @Proud Israeli Jew

    Jews took off to Soviet zone while Poles were fighting Germans … So much for their loyalty.

    Those that “were transferred to various “soft” gulags or work camps in Siberia & Central Asia. Those with political roles, were transferred to proper Gulags such as the Perchora Region” …

    … as Gulag kapos and lower level administration because the upper* administration didn’t trust Russians or Poles . How the hell would you know where Begin was because he told you so?

    He and his around 4000 jewish buddies deserted from Anders army I Palestine They were not only deserter bu bunch o thieves that stole everything that wasn’t bolted to cement floor.

    “neighbors who had stolen their homes” – Everything they ‘owned’ in Poland was acquired during Poland’s partition as a reward for snitching or bought for chump change from occupants after they the rightful owners we exiled to Siberia.

    Prior to Poland’s partition they didn’t own enething in Poland (and the rest of Europe) they were nothing but squatters tolerated out of pity – Uninvited squatters don’t own anything or Poles to them and that’s the end of discussion.

    * Gulags were run by Matvei Berman and Naftaly Frenkel (founders) their buddies Lev Inzhir a commissar of the Gulag transit and administration, Firin, Rappoport, Kogan, Zhuk, were the commissars of camps and slave labor that supervised the construction of the Belomorsk Canal and other projects responsible for at least 30 million worked/starved to death “enemies” of the revolution. The gulag system pre-dates over 2 decades the death camps built by nazis ,…

    No wonder that you got kicked out of every country and place you tried to settled looking at your mindset and attitude I would do that too only much sooner.

    https://www.en.malemonarchswiki.org/wiki/List_of_Jewish_expulsions

    Something about your mindset and attitude.

    https://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/halsall/jewish/lazare-anti.asp

  451. L.K says:

    Sometimes visuals help people understand why, for instance, the AR death camp tales, are such BS after all.
    The following underground documentary uses lots of visuals, and it is all based on some of the most “authoritative” holohoax historians, people like Arad, as well as the alleged lie, er, eye-witnesses…
    Around 1:33:00 the burial pits are discussed and around 3:02:51 the burning of the exhumed bodies is discussed.

    • Replies: @snag
  452. snag says:
    @L.K

    About Icchac Arad.

    “Piotr Zychowicz (Rzeczpospolita), points out that according to evidence in possession of the Lithuanian court system, Arad joined the NKVD at the end of 1944, and became active in combating the anti-Communist Lithuanian underground. He participated in the NKVD destruction of Tigras brigade of the Lithuanian Liberation Army. In his interview Arad insisted that he was not on the NKVD payroll, thus contradicting the physical evidence presented by Rytas Narvydas from the Lithuanian prosecutor’s office”

    https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=pl&u=http://www.bibula.com/%3Fp%3D2234&prev=search

  453. snag says:
    @Mulegino1

    You’re talking about technicalities and what was first, the egg or the chicken while I describe what some eyewitness have seen there for over four years he spend there – I won’t speculate if that was planned or payback. It happen.

    • Replies: @Mulegino1
  454. snag says:
    @Mulegino1

    Next time please ask them what Polish “pogroms”? … to name it, supported by dates and location.

  455. snag says:
    @utu

    If there was no anti-Semitism they created it like they do it today bringing their youth to Auschwitz surrounded by armed gorillas and scare the crap out them. Zionists need anti-Semitism to survive.

    http://www.inminds.com/jews-of-iraq.html

    https://www.wrmea.org/1992-july/the-lavon-affair-when-israel-firebombed-u.s.-installations.html

  456. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Mulegino1

    By all accounts, the Germans treated their prisoners of war strictly according to international law.

    Not by this account:

    Hitler’s British death island: Astonishing story of how the Nazis murdered 40,000 people in Channel Island concentration camps – and planned to blitz the South Coast with chemical weapons.

    Or this report that states that out of 5.7 million Soviet soldiers captured (by Germany) between 1941 and 1945, more than 3.5 million died in captivity.

  457. snag says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    That there are other versions of the ‘truth’ you prefer to adopt – It doesn’t matter what you think but who wins the war.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  458. snag says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Give me a break, please I was there twice during the commie regime in Poland it was compulsory in those days to visit it a least once in elementary school and once in highschool so don’t lecture me how many camps or for whom. I have seen a piles of kids shoes. Mengele didn’t practice on old or sick people too.

    According to my dad’s friend many Jews died because they weren’t fit for physical labor and because a lack of will to fight and survive.

  459. Mulegino1 says:
    @snag

    I am not denying there was suffering and death at Birkenau, only disputing the official narrative that 1.2 million people were killed there and that there were homicidal gas chambers in use there.

    That having been said, the Poles have gotten the short end of the stick for too long at the hands of this insufferable and hubristic tribe and I wholeheartedly support their efforts to no longer take it. The Jews know how to dish it out, but they can’t take it. Kudos to the Poles for not acting like the contemporary kosher Germans. Has the world ever seen a nation of such self-hating, masochistic wimps who welcome their own destruction?

    • Replies: @L.K
  460. Anna says:
    @German_reader

    Poland was given land in the West for their east territory (wolyn Lwów) .. the deal we never wanted but was agreed by Stalin and so call allies … so that got NOTHING TO DO WITH WAR REPARATIONS !
    My family has lost everything in the east … and never got anything in the West … so my family reparation is still due.

    • Replies: @snag
    , @Max Denken
  461. @jilles dykstra

    Thank you, sir!

    But about WWII, I was born in the war, why there had been a war, my parents did not have a clue, nor did anyone I ever discussed the war with.

    According to E.D. Morel, who I consider a very credible source, and anyone who knows of his activities would probably agree, would say that the lack of knowledge was by design by the militarists in France, Britain and Russia and also the U.S. Furthermore people were never told the whole truth and only one side of the story was allowed to be published. Shockingly crude hate propaganda was incessantly drilled into people’s heads.

    Now, alle such ‘certainties’ are gone.

    As they well should be. I am stunned at the excellent work done at the time countering all the propaganda, but people, at least in the US, know and will only accept the most twisted propaganda even to this day.

    People should be able to understand what the militarist crazies are doing today since it’s fundamentally no different than what went on during the lead up to the “Big Ones.” Their methods are so transparent and so outlandish that it’s simply amazing that people choose to believe the bizarre. It’s so perverse that I no longer have a shred of faith in G-wd or man. What a wretched species we are!

  462. @Proud Israeli Jew

    The Polish pogroms were caused by Polish Catholic Greed.

    Citation please.

    Now tell us about the Nakba and the ongoing gratuitous sadistic abominations of the Zionuts against the Palestinians.

    Yeah, yeah, we know…Youse guys are da viktumz. Uh-huh.

    • Replies: @Proud Israeli Jew
  463. snag says:
    @Anna

    Don’t hold your breath ;)

  464. Mulegino1 says:
    @CanSpeccy

    That the Germans had a missile base on the island is perfectly credible, but their having murdered 40,000 people there is not.

    Again, where are the traces of mass graves and remains? How were the murders carried out?

    This is simply more of the same atrocity propaganda.

    Unfortunately, many Soviet soldiers did die in German captivity due to the reasons I referenced above: the Soviets did not sign or honor the Geneva and Hague conventions and refused to provide their own Axis p.o.w.’s access to Red Cross packages, inspections or even subsistence level foodstuffs. The Germans had enough trouble feeding their own Wehrmacht, and could not afford to feed the large masses of Soviet p.o.w.’s captured on the Eastern Front, especially if the Soviets would not reciprocate.

    On the other hand, the mortality rate of the other Allied p.o.w.’s in German Stalags was not exponentially greater than that of German p.o.w.’s in British and American captivity.

    • Replies: @L.K
  465. L.K says:
    @Mulegino1

    mulegino “Kudos to the Poles for not acting like the contemporary kosher Germans. Has the world ever seen a nation of such self-hating, masochistic wimps..”

    To be fair, NO nation in history, and certainly NOT Poland, has, after such a catastrophic defeat, been subjected to the kind of vicious, concerted, and never ending atrocity propaganda that the rump state of Germany has had to endure.

    • Replies: @Mulegino1
  466. To be fair, NO nation in history, and certainly NOT Poland, has, after such a catastrophic defeat, been subjected to the kind of vicious, concerted, and never ending atrocity propaganda that the rump state of Germany has had to endure.

    And for the purpose of extorting ever more, and whitewashing “our” own crimes, which are much worse by any measure.

  467. @snag

    Funny that, British rhyming slang for Jew is 4 x 2 or four by two. It is not necessarily used as an insult just a form of opaque terminology.

  468. Mulegino1 says:
    @L.K

    True. But even the horrendous fate that the German people endured should not prevent human nature from finally reasserting itself. Even the grass will grow under concrete and finally break through.

    Hopefully, the Germans will wake up before the last Christian church in the country becomes a mosque, the International Temple for Shoah Restitution is built upon the ruins of the Eagle’s Lair, and the Brandenburg Gate becomes the Treblinka Memorial Arch.

    • Replies: @Mulegino1
    , @L.K
  469. @Anna

    The Allies’ deal at Yalta and Potsdam shifted Poland’s national borders westward. The eastern border was shifted between 200 to 351 km to the west, costing your family (and mine) their homes, communities, and everything that remained after the destruction of 1939 -1945. The western border was shifted 100 to 200 km into German territories that had once been Polish anyway, before the 1st partition. Poland’ territory was reduced by 20%: from 388 km2 to 312 km2 – and all that without Poland’s consent.

    But it’s useless for you to argue the point with the crowd here. They will ask you for “proofs,” accuse you of being a Zionist agent, and seek out your photos on the Internet to support the thesis that you are a phylacteries wearing Chabadnik named Shmul.

  470. Mulegino1 says:
    @Mulegino1

    Oops! I got the Eagle’s Lair confused with the Wolf’s Nest.

  471. CanSpeccy says: • Website

    That the Germans had a missile base on the island is perfectly credible, but their having murdered 40,000 people there is not.

    Again, where are the traces of mass graves and remains? How were the murders carried out?

    This is simply more of the same atrocity propaganda.

    LOL

    The hand waving method of establishing historical truth.

    It certainly took more than a few hundred untermenschen to build the miles of concrete fortifications around the Island of Alderney. Then there were the tunnels, hewn from solid granite, plus numerous underground bunkers and massive concrete gun turrets.

    As for the bodies of workers starved beyond the point of usefulness, many it is said, were disposed of while still breathing by shoving them off the high cliffs at the East end of the island. A furious tidal race would have washed the bodies away between one tide and the next.

    And LK and Jack Sheete apparently subscribe to your school of historical discovery. Pfui. A waste of time talking with such nincompoops.

  472. renfro says:
    @CanSpeccy

    Listen you are going to be laughed off the thread for using the Daily Mail article by Col Richard Kemp as a source.
    Everyone knows Kemp is a long time paid shill and apologist for Jews and Israel—he’s a running joke among military and policy personnel…its like……’well what has C0l Hebrew written this week..lol”.

    Israel’s Counterinsurgency Apologist: Colonel Richard Kemp | Foreign …
    https://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/…/israels-counterinsurgency-apologist-colonel-… Jul 7, 2015 – Richard Kemp starts with the premise that Israel doesn’t commit war crimes and misinterprets international law accordingly. Retired British colonel, Richard Kemp, has been an ardent supporter of Israel’s three major military operations in Gaza conducted over the last six years. He has collaborated on …..

    Find more reliable sources if you want to claim something.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
    , @snag
  473. Seraphim says:
    @Max Denken

    But did not Russians move into territories that were theirs anyway?

  474. @Max Denken

    It’s official: you are a complete clown.

    • Agree: jacques sheete
  475. @CanSpeccy

    So, a link to a cliff by the sea is proof of mass-murder? Why are you so proud to be a shithead?

    • Replies: @L.K
  476. @snag

    I really have no idea what you’re talking about.

    • Replies: @snag
  477. @L.K

    I think Phil was being far too kind to Avery.

  478. @EliteCommInc.

    EliteCommInc. says:
    March 13, 2018 at 5:59 pm GMT
    @Gene Dobry
    In other-words, stop holding Poland accountable for what transpired under the occupation of Nazi Germany and to do is tantamount to slander or libel.

    That’s how it looks. Thanks for the confirmation.

    GD

  479. utu says:
    @CanSpeccy

    Alderney Society president Dr Trevor Davenport is the author of Festung Alderney, a book which focuses on the island’s German defences.

    Commenting on an article in Saturday’s Daily Mail – the first of two about Alderney during the Occupation – Dr Davenport said: ‘If this first article is anything to go by, containing so much that has been speculated on before with no evidence apart from hearsay (or fantasy), then I cannot begin to imagine what other fiction will be included in their later “revelations”.’

    Read more at https://guernseypress.com/news/2017/05/09/chemical-weapon-v-1s-in-alderney-fantasy/#LzIeBmVirvQ4JL8R.99

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  480. L.K says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Shithead indeed.

    This shill for the British Empire had the audacity to say to me, during a discussion about WW1, that my factual statement that the British Empire was the largest the world has ever seen, amounted to an “anti-white” device.

    I guess Germans ain’t white… so it’s okay for this shill to pile on the Greulpropaganda to defame Germany, even to the point of using the most idiotic garbage, such as the above Daily Mail “piece”.

  481. L.K says:
    @Mulegino1

    Considering that basically all major players in the world today – even the ever more pathetic and illegitimate German elite empowered by the victors at the end of the war to rule over a non sovereign Germany – wish for the nation to remain mired in guilt, I’m not hopeful.

    Do you think that the Jews, Poles, Zamericans, Brits, French, Russians, etc, would want the Germans to be anything but the self-hating, masochistic Nestbeschmutzers they are?

    Sure, Russia, for instance, would prefer a more independent Germany, one not to be so easily used by the ZUS, but only as long as it knows its place as a former ‘fascist’ evildoer.

    The Non-Jewish Stake in the Holocaust Mythology

    http://www.inconvenienthistory.com/2/1/1919

  482. renfro says:

    The horrible, terrible anti semite Henry Ford…lol…(who was really a patriot) provided some official papers relating to Poland prior to WWII and how the US Jewish press was setting up Poland as evil country persecuting Jews.
    Interesting read.

    https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_International_Jew/Volume_2/Chapter_40

  483. renfro says:

    BTW…goggle has taken it upon itself to label sites and books as anti semitic as they appear in your web searches…as so:

    The International Jew: Jewish activities in the United States

    https://books.google.com/books?id=Dx5YAAAAMAAJ

    1921 – ‎Anti-Jewish propaganda

    In New York it has always been the burning ambition of the Jews to elect a Jewish mayor. They selected a time when the leading parties were disrupted to push forward their choice. The method which they adopted was characteristic. They reasoned that the newspapers would not dare refuse the dictum of the combined …”

  484. @Max Denken

    Jan T. Gross, ‘Fear, Anti- Semitism in Poland after Auschwitz, An essay in historical interpretation’, Princeton 2006
    What Gross describes is one incident, with a few victims.
    Polish writers argue that it was a deliberate provocation.
    That indeed after WWII Poles still did not like their jews is true.
    In 1967, from memory, Polish jews were allowed to leave the country, Gross was one of them who left.

  485. Vojkan says:
    @jacques sheete

    You know very well that I would need a whole essay to answer your question. A short version would be that unless you consider bolshevism as an offspring pan-slavism, pan-slavism isn’t responsible for anywhere near the number of deaths as pan-germanism.
    To make perfectly clear where I stand, though I consider myself close to the Russians, my view of the world has been heavily influenced by Dostoevsky and Berdaev, I also consider myself much closer to the Greek than to Croats or Slovenians, whom I regardt as barbarians dressed in civilised clothes, and it has been so since I remember.
    My fondness for Dostoevsky should also tell you where I stand regarding the murder of a pregnant woman on June 28th, 1914.
    That said, there are three decisions that have been made by the people who ruled Serbia in the XXth century that I approve: the rejection of the Austro-Hungarian ultimatum in 1914, the rejection of the pact with nazi Germany in 1941, and the rejection of the 1999 Rambouillet ultimatum by the US led West, even if it had meant war in all three cases.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  486. @Max Denken

    But it’s useless for you to argue the point with the crowd here. They will ask you for “proofs,”

    The horror…. The horror….

    • Replies: @utu
  487. Iwona says:
    @AndrewR

    The Germans brought it on themselves. There would have been no “ethnic cleansing of Germans” if Germany hadn’t started the war and imposed ethnic cleansing on Poland: six million dead (half of whom were Christian), millions of slave laborers (included sex slaves), millions of Poles deported to make way for German colonists, hundreds of thousands of Polish children of “aryan” appearance kidnapped and sent to Germany. Furthermore, the westward shift of Poland’s borders (agreed upon without Poland’s knowledge) meant the loss of half of Poland’s prewar territory and ethnic cleansing of millions of ethnic Poles living in the eastern borderlands annexed by the USSR. Germany has been very shrewd in presenting themselves as victims while Poland, under Soviet occupation for 50 years, had its history hijacked.

  488. Wally says:
    @Iwona

    said:
    “millions of slave laborers (included sex slaves), millions of Poles deported to make way for German colonists, hundreds of thousands of Polish children of “aryan” appearance kidnapped and sent to Germany.”

    Laughable Zionist propaganda. There is no proof.

    http://www.codoh.com

  489. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @renfro

    Listen you are going to be laughed off the thread for using the Daily Mail article by Col Richard Kemp as a source.

    Listen, smart arse, I responded to a comment that began with the words:

    By all accounts, the Germans treated their prisoners of war strictly according to international law.

    I posted links to a couple of “accounts” that proved that claim false.

    As for the use by the Nazis of Russian prisoners of war on the British Crown dependency of Alderney, there are dozens of accounts on the Web if you’re interested (Here’s one).

    I’m not a historian and I make no claim as to the history of the Channel Islands. However, I have spent time on that island, where I once owned a company, and I’ve seen the massive quantities of concrete used there in fortifications, gun turrets and other structures, and its clear to me that there must have been a huge quantity of labor employed there during WWII, all of it undoubtedly slave labor, since the SS (featured in photographs of Alderney included in the DM article that you deride) didn’t do that kind of work themselves.

  490. snag says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    … that the one that wins the war or owns the media dictates what’s truth, it doesn’t matter what you or I think – No one is crying that the allies went over the board destroying Germany, nobody mention 80 millions WWII casualties but we can’t escape that 6 million bullshit ,…

  491. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @utu

    Utu,

    Alderney Society president Dr Trevor Davenport is the author of Festung Alderney, a book which focuses on the island’s German defences.

    The Island of Alderney is a quaint and in some respects quite charming place with a marginal economy supported by a marginal tax-haven business, where semi-wealthy people establish a residence to minimize their tax liability. Naturally the Islanders do not want the place to be tagged as a death camp, since it would kill the economy. So, frankly, I don’t place a whole lot of confidence in the implications of Dr. Davenport’s remarks about the DM report on the German occupation of the island.

    What is indisputable is that massive fortifications were built on and around the island during WWII in addition to the tunnels that the DM article says were hewn from solid rock at a location off the Val Reuter. These works leave no doubt as to the existence of a large war-time work force on the island. Moreover, the location of the labor camps on the island are well known and were pointed out to me when I was there.

    So, really, all that the twats here can argue about is how the prisoners died, which seems silly, since it is surely clear to anyone but a complete fool how any SS-driven forced labor died: from accident, starvation, or murder (and the DM article does include photographs of the SS in Alderney, or do the critics say these are fake, photo-shopped images?). But apparently, I’m expected to provide proof of gas chambers of something equally compelling to the dull-witted.

    Oh, but maybe non of the forced labor died on the island. In fact they were probably fed on sausages and sauerkraut, with beer and roast beef on sundays. Ja, ja, that’s how it must have been, and they all went home to Russia, Israel and Poland after the war and lived happily ever after.

    • Replies: @utu
  492. utu says:
    @Jonathan Revusky

    Revusky searched through whole YT for the proofs of a single real terror attack and found them all to be hoaxes and false flags because there were all CRISIS ACTORS, CRISIS ACTORS.

    Hitler was a crisis actor. Auschwitz was just a movies set.

    • Troll: Jonathan Revusky, L.K
    • Replies: @Jonathan Revusky
  493. @utu

    Revusky searched through whole YT for the proofs of a single real terror attack and found them all to be hoaxes and false flags

    Well, the above is really a distortion of things, but finally, I won’t even bother to dispute it much. Okay, fine, there is some core of truth to what you say.

    Basically, when one of these dubious events goes down, at this point in time, my approach is to assume that it is a hoax or false flag until proven otherwise.

    Fine, that is probably a fair characterization.

    Now, I would ask you this first of all: why is my approach inherently crazy as compared to the approach of most of the contributors on this site, which is simply to assume that the authorities are always telling the truth about these things? Not only is that their baseline assumption, that all of these stories are true, but, as far as I can tell, certainly the main ethno-racialist sorts of writers here (I won’t name names, but…) never make the slightest attempt to verify whether any of these stories are true.

    So, if they are presented with some story, like somebody self-radicalized on the Internet and decided to shoot a bunch of little kids in a school… or a bunch of homos in a gay bar… or a bunch of sweet little old ladies in a black church… — they just run with it. They treat whatever story as an established fact.

    Why would their approach, i.e. just assuming that all these narratives are true, be more serious and correct than my approach of simply assuming that these events are fake until proven otherwise?

    You really would need to explain this because, frankly, to me, it seems pretty obvious that it is my approach that makes a lot more sense, certainly at this juncture. We really are at a stage of history where a reasonably informed person would tend to approach these things with an extremely high degree of skepticism — as opposed to always believing them!

    So, do answer me that: why is my basic approach to these questions wrong? Why is it preferable to always assume that these things are true?

    That is a general question. I would now ask the more specific question, which is this:

    Could you outline the cases you are aware of in which my basic approach to these questions has led me to error? In which specific case have I said that something is a synthetic event that you are sure really happened as the MSM describes?

    Name the specific case or cases please.

    CRISIS ACTORS, CRISIS ACTORS

    Well, I’m not the only person who thinks that the presence of crisis actors is dead giveaway. Do you have some innocent explanation for why, when these things go down, they always seem to coincide with the running of a drill of some sort?

    As best I can figure, the reason for the drill is that they provide a cover for recruiting the crisis actors and generally, setting up a lot of the mise en scene of the synthetic event.

    But if you have some sort of alternative, innocent explanation of this, again, I am all ears.

    Go ahead, explain it all to me… Surely, you’re not going to pass up this wonderful opportunity to school me, are you now?

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
    , @utu
  494. @Iwona

    You cannot win with this swarm of ‘Zionist black helicopters (ZBLAH)” truthers that took possession of this space. Just send them to authoritative sources to argue their points there. As to the soccer-playing summer camps where a few people died from overcrowding and flu, send them to these I found in 5 min. of searching. As to what Germany inflicted on Poland, send them to the IPN, ditto.

    https://twitter.com/AuschwitzMuseum

    https://twitter.com/MajdanekMuseum

    https://twitter.com/search?q=Treblinka&src=typd

    https://twitter.com/search?q=Belzec&src=typd

    https://www.warhistoryonline.com/featured/ten-worst-nazi-concentration-camps.html

    https://twitter.com/GerDeathCamps

    https://twitter.com/ipngovpl

    If any of these are not credible in the judgment of the ZBLAH people, let them argue their theories at the respective, proper venues. This one isn’t.

    • Troll: L.K
    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  495. CanSpeccy says: • Website