The Unz Review: An Alternative Media Selection
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 John Wear Archive
Babi Yar: The Einsatzgruppen Killings
🔊 Listen RSS
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>
Babi Yar Memorial in Ukraine

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Troll, or LOL with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used once per hour.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

One of the worst atrocities attributed to the Einsatzgruppen was the Babi Yar massacre, which allegedly occurred in a large ravine outside Kiev in the Ukraine. The allegation is that Einsatzgruppe C rounded up 33,771 Jews in Kiev and shot all of them over the period September 29-30, 1941.[1]Winter, Peter, The Six Million: Fact or Fiction?, The Revisionist Press, 2015, p. 25. German Reserve Police Battalion 45 and Police Battalion 303 are said to have assisted in the operation.[2]Brandon, Ray and Lower, Wendy, The Shoah in Ukraine: History, Testimony, Memorialization: Bloomington, Ind.: Indiana University Press, 2008, p. 292. This article will examine the veracity of these allegations.

Einsatzgruppen Report

The figure of 33,771 Jews murdered at Babi Yar comes from Einsatzgruppen Event Report 106 of October 7, 1941.[3]Tiedemann, Herbert, “Babi Yar: Critical Questions and Comments,” in Gauss, Ernst (ed.), Dissecting the Holocaust: The Growing Critique of Truth and Memory, Capshaw, Ala.: Theses and Dissertations Press, 2000, p. 521. That the Germans let copies of the Einsatzgruppen reports fall into the hands of the Allies is strikingly odd. They could have easily burned these few stacks of incriminating papers before the Allies conquered Germany.[4]Mattogno, Carlo and Graf, Jürgen, Treblinka: Transit Camp or Extermination Camp?, Washington, D.C.: The Barnes Review, 2010, p. 204. The authenticity of the Einsatzgruppen reports has also been questioned because, like so much other “evidence” of Nazi atrocities, the documents emerged from the Soviet occupation zone.[5]Winter, Peter, The Six Million: Fact or Fiction?, The Revisionist Press, 2015, p. 25

The Einsatzgruppen reports that have been produced are copies which often show clear signs of postwar additions, inaccurate and inflated figures, and rare signatures which appear on non-incriminating pages. Such reports would not constitute valid proof to historians or a legitimate court of law.[6]Mattogno, Carlo and Graf, Jürgen, Treblinka: Transit Camp or Extermination Camp?, Washington, D.C.: The Barnes Review, 2010, pp. 203-211. It is also surprising that the alleged mass murder at Babi Yar took place almost four months prior to the Wannsee Conference, where the mass killing of Jews was allegedly first planned.[7]Tiedemann, Herbert, “Babi Yar: Critical Questions and Comments,” in Gauss, Ernst (ed.), Dissecting the Holocaust: The Growing Critique of Truth and Memory, Capshaw, Ala.: Theses and Dissertations Press, 2000, p. 497.

The very few figures given in Event Report 106 are provable fabrications. This report claims that there were about 300,000 Jews in Kiev at the time the report was made. The population of Kiev at the time of the report, however, had shrunk from 850,000 or more persons to about 305,000 due to evacuations. So if there had still been 300,000 Jews in Kiev on October 7, 1941, there would have been practically no one in Kiev who was not Jewish. The German experts who made the Einsatzgruppen reports would not have made such a major mistake in their report.[8]Ibid., pp. 499, 521.
(Tiedemann, Herbert, “Babi Yar: Critical Questions and Comments,” in Gauss, Ernst (ed.), Dissecting the Holocaust: The Growing Critique of Truth and Memory, Capshaw, Ala.: Theses and Dissertations Press, 2000, p. 497.)

Cremation Eyewitness

Today there are no remains to be found of the tens of thousands of Jews allegedly murdered by the Einsatzgruppen at Babi Yar. The official Holocaust story claims that the Nazis sent a special team back to the site in 1943 to exhume and burn the bodies.[9]Winter, Peter, The Six Million: Fact or Fiction?, The Revisionist Press, 2015, p. 25.

The Jew Vladimir K. Davidov is apparently the only survivor who claims to have participated in the cremation of bodies at Babi Yar. Davidov stated that on August 18, 1943, he and 99 other prisoners were taken to Babi Yar and forced to dig up the bodies of the Jews shot in 1941. He claimed that 70,000 bodies had been buried in the mass graves of Babi Yar. Davidov said that he and about 35 to 40 other prisoners escaped their own murders during the night of September 29. About 10 of his comrades were killed during this escape.[10]Mattogno, Carlo and Graf, Jürgen, Treblinka: Transit Camp or Extermination Camp?, Washington, D.C.: The Barnes Review, 2010, pp. 220-221.

According to Davidov, the prisoners exhumed the dead bodies and later burned them on grilles that consisted of granite blocks with train rails laid upon them. A layer of wood was piled on top of these grilles with the dead bodies piled on top of the wood. This resulted in an enormous stack of bodies 10 to 12 meters high. According to Davidov, there was only a single grille in the beginning, but later 75 grilles were built.[11]Ibid., p. 220.
(Mattogno, Carlo and Graf, Jürgen, Treblinka: Transit Camp or Extermination Camp?, Washington, D.C.: The Barnes Review, 2010, pp. 220-221.)

Davidov said that the cremation of the bodies at Babi Yar was finished on September 25 or 26, 1943. The German Luftwaffe took an aerial photograph of the area around Babi Yar on September 26, 1943.[12]Ibid., p. 221.
(Mattogno, Carlo and Graf, Jürgen, Treblinka: Transit Camp or Extermination Camp?, Washington, D.C.: The Barnes Review, 2010, pp. 220-221.)
John C. Ball, a Canadian mineral-exploration geologist with experience interpreting air photos, has published this photograph with the following commentary:

Photo 2—September 26th, 1943:

This photo was taken one week after the end of the supposed mass cremations in the ravine. If 33,000 people were exhumed and burned evidence of vehicle and foot traffic to supply fuel should be evident in the area where the Jewish cemetery meets Babi Yar ravine, however there is no evidence of traffic either on the end of the narrow road that proceeds to the ravine from the end of Melnik Street, or on the grass and shrubbery or on the sides of the cemetery.[13]Ball, John C., Air Photo Evidence: Auschwitz, Treblinka, Majdanek, Sobibor, Bergen Belsen, Belzec, Babi Yar, Katyn Forest, Delta, B.C., Canada: Ball Resources Services Limited, 1992, p. 107.

Ball writes regarding an enlarged section of the same photograph:

An enlargement reveals no evidence that 325 people were working in the ravine finishing the cremation of 33,000 bodies just one week earlier, for many truckloads of fuel would have had to be brought in, and there are no scars from vehicle traffic either on the grass and shrubs at the side of the Jewish cemetery or in the ravine where the bodies were supposedly burned.

1943 air photos of Babi Yar Ravine and the adjoining Jewish cemetery in Kiev reveal that neither the soil nor the vegetation is disturbed as would be expected if materials and fuel had been transported one week earlier to hundreds of workers who had dug up and burned tens of thousands of bodies in one month.[14]Ibid., p. 108.
(Ball, John C., Air Photo Evidence: Auschwitz, Treblinka, Majdanek, Sobibor, Bergen Belsen, Belzec, Babi Yar, Katyn Forest, Delta, B.C., Canada: Ball Resources Services Limited, 1992, p. 107.)

ORDER IT NOW

Ball’s findings are all the more valuable since according to Davidov the cremation of the bodies at Babi Yar was completed on the same day or the day before the photo of September 26, 1943 was taken. This would have left behind clear evidence from the cremation of the bodies that would have shown on the photo. Carlo Mattogno and Jürgen Graf write:

[T]he cremation of 33,771 bodies would have required approximately 4,500 tons of firewood and approximately 430 tons of wood ashes and about 190 tons of human ashes would have been generated by the process. Moreover, several dozen tons of granite (gravestones and monuments) would have had to have been transported from the Jewish cemetery to Babi Yar and back again in order to construct the support for the 75 “ovens.” If the claims put forward about Babi Yar were true, all of this would have had to leave behind unmistakable traces on the air photo of September 26, 1943.[15]Mattogno, Carlo and Graf, Jürgen, Treblinka: Transit Camp or Extermination Camp?, Washington, D.C.: The Barnes Review, 2010, p. 222.

If 33,771 Jews had been shot at Babi Yar, large numbers of rifle bullets would have also remained at the site. To shoot people with rifles, one needs at least twice as many bullets as there are people to be shot. Since the lead core of bullets survives practically forever, finding the remains of these bullets would have been an easy matter.[16]Tiedemann, Herbert, “Babi Yar: Critical Questions and Comments,” in Gauss, Ernst (ed.), Dissecting the Holocaust: The Growing Critique of Truth and Memory, Capshaw, Ala.: Theses and Dissertations Press, 2000, p. 500.

No one ever conducted a detailed forensic investigation to confirm the witness statements and allegations at Babi Yar. Why was no detailed forensic investigation ever conducted at Babi Yar? The only reasonable answer is that the mass shootings of Jews at Babi Yar never took place. Since there is no material evidence for the mass shootings and cremation of the bodies at Babi Yar, and since the photograph of September 26, 1943 disproves these allegations, Davidov’s eyewitness testimony is clearly inaccurate.[17]Ibid., pp. 498-524.
(Tiedemann, Herbert, “Babi Yar: Critical Questions and Comments,” in Gauss, Ernst (ed.), Dissecting the Holocaust: The Growing Critique of Truth and Memory, Capshaw, Ala.: Theses and Dissertations Press, 2000, p. 500.)

Survivor Eyewitnesses

Some Jewish survivors and authors have described the massacre at Babi Yar. Elie Wiesel wrote in one of his books that after Jews were executed at Babi Yar: “Eye witnesses say that for months after the killings the ground continued to spurt geysers of blood. One was always treading on corpses.”[18]Wiesel, Elie, The Jews of Silence, London: Vallentine Mitchell, 1968, p. 37. Wiesel later repeated this claim with some embellishment: “Later, I learn from a witness that, for month after month, the ground never stopped trembling; and that, from time to time, geysers of blood spurted from it.”[19]Wiesel, Elie, Paroles d’étranger, Paris: Editions du Seuil, 1982, p. 86. This story lacks all credibility.

A. Anatoli Kuznetsov wrote a novel titled Babi Yar to document the alleged Babi Yar massacre. The author was born in Kiev on August 18, 1929.[20]Kuznetsov, A. Anatoli, Babi Yar: A Document in the Form of a Novel, New York: Farrar, Straus and Giroux, 1970, p. 14. Thus, he was only 12 years old when the alleged massacre of Jews at Babi Yar took place. This is a relatively young age and tends to lessen his credibility.

Kuznetsov wrote: “On September 29th, 1941, for example, every single eye witness of what happened in Babi Yar was executed, but the people of Kurenyovka knew all about it an hour after the first shots had been fired.”[21]Ibid., p. 365.
(Kuznetsov, A. Anatoli, Babi Yar: A Document in the Form of a Novel, New York: Farrar, Straus and Giroux, 1970, p. 14.)
So Kuznetsov says that he knows of no living eyewitnesses to the massacre of some 33,771 Jews at Babi Yar. Kuznetsov attempts to document the alleged atrocity at Babi Yar with almost exclusively hearsay evidence.

Dina Mironovna Pronicheva was a Jewess who says she survived the alleged massacre at Babi Yar. She is the only person believed to have fallen into the ravine unwounded and feigned death. Assuming various non-Jewish identities, she survived the German occupation of the Soviet Union during World War II. While nobody seems to have interviewed Pronicheva with a tape recorder, there are 12 written records of her testimony dating back to the 1940s. These records differ in substance, and most of the texts fail to meet the standards of contemporary oral history interviews.[22]Brandon, Ray (editor) and Lower, Wendy (editor), The Shoah in Ukraine: History, Testimony, Memorialization, Bloomington, Ind.: Indiana University Press, 2008, pp. 294-295.

Despite the inconsistencies in her testimony, historian Karel C. Berkhoff writes that historians of the alleged Babi Yar massacre should use Pronicheva’s and other testimonies much more extensively. Berkhoff writes: “The fact remains that only very few sources come as close as Pronicheva’s testimonies do to the horrendous details of Kiev’s Jewish Holocaust.”[23]Ibid., p. 309.
(Brandon, Ray (editor) and Lower, Wendy (editor), The Shoah in Ukraine: History, Testimony, Memorialization, Bloomington, Ind.: Indiana University Press, 2008, pp. 294-295.)

Berkhoff and other historians fail to acknowledge the extreme disparity in the eyewitness testimonies regarding the events at Babi Yar. For example, Pronicheva’s accounts emphasize guns and rifles as the murder weapons. Other eyewitness accounts have included clubs, rocks, rifle butts, tanks, mines, hand grenades, gas vans, bayonets and knives, burial alive, drowning, injections, and electric shock as the murder weapons at Babi Yar. Herbert Tiedemann asked: “What would an unbiased court do if it had to pass judgement on an alleged mass murderer, if the witnesses were in such thorough disagreement?”[24]Tiedemann, Herbert, “Babi Yar: Critical Questions and Comments,” in Gauss, Ernst (ed.), Dissecting the Holocaust: The Growing Critique of Truth and Memory, Capshaw, Ala.: Theses and Dissertations Press, 2000, p. 523.

Jürgen Graf writes concerning the contradictory testimony of witnesses at Babi Yar:

According to the established version of the facts, these 33,711 Jews were shot and their bodies thrown into the ravine of Babi Yar on 29 September 1941. But the first witnesses told completely different stories: The massacre was perpetrated in a graveyard, or near a graveyard, or in a forest, or in the very city of Kiev, or on the banks of the Dnieper. As to the murder weapons, the early witnesses spoke of rifles, or machine guns, or submachine guns, or hand grenades, or bayonets, or knives; some witnesses claimed that the victims had been put to death via lethal injections whereas others asserted that they had been drowned in the Dnieper, or buried alive, or killed by means of electric current, or squashed by tanks, or driven into minefields, or that their skulls had been crushed with rocks, or that they had been murdered in gas vans.[25]Graf, Jürgen, “The Moral and Intellectual Bankruptcy of a Scholar,” Inconvenient History, Vol. 3, No. 4, 2011.

Conclusion

Witness testimonies of the alleged Babi Yar massacre have been given full credence by historians even though these testimonies contradict each other and claim the most ridiculous impossibilities. Also, no one ever tried to secure any evidence in order to prove the murders. The Soviets after the end of the war turned the ravine of Babi Yar into a municipal garbage dump, and later into a garbage-incineration site. It is no less incomprehensible that the Soviets intended to build a sports facility over this site of the alleged mass murder of 33,771 Jews.[26]Tiedemann, Herbert, “Babi Yar: Critical Questions and Comments,” in Gauss, Ernst (ed.), Dissecting the Holocaust: The Growing Critique of Truth and Memory, Capshaw, Ala.: Theses and Dissertations Press, 2000, pp. 524-525.

The air photo taken of the ravine of Babi Yar on September 26, 1943 shows a placid and peaceful valley. Neither the vegetation nor the topography has been disturbed by human activity. There are no burning sites, no smoke, no excavations, no fuel depots, and no access roads for the transport of humans or fuel. We can conclude with certainty from this photo that no part of Babi Yar was subjected to topographical changes of any magnitude right up to the Soviet reoccupation of the area. Hence, the mass graves and mass cremations attested to by witnesses at Babi Yar did not take place.[27]Ball, John Clive, “Air Photo Evidence,” in Gauss, Ernst (ed.), Dissecting the Holocaust: The Growing Critique of Truth and Memory, Capshaw, Ala.: Theses and Dissertations Press, 2000, pp. 275, 284.

Endnotes

[1] Winter, Peter, The Six Million: Fact or Fiction?, The Revisionist Press, 2015, p. 25.

[2] Brandon, Ray and Lower, Wendy, The Shoah in Ukraine: History, Testimony, Memorialization: Bloomington, Ind.: Indiana University Press, 2008, p. 292.

[3] Tiedemann, Herbert, “Babi Yar: Critical Questions and Comments,” in Gauss, Ernst (ed.), Dissecting the Holocaust: The Growing Critique of Truth and Memory, Capshaw, Ala.: Theses and Dissertations Press, 2000, p. 521.

[4] Mattogno, Carlo and Graf, Jürgen, Treblinka: Transit Camp or Extermination Camp?, Washington, D.C.: The Barnes Review, 2010, p. 204.

[5] Winter, Peter, The Six Million: Fact or Fiction?, The Revisionist Press, 2015, p. 25

[6] Mattogno, Carlo and Graf, Jürgen, Treblinka: Transit Camp or Extermination Camp?, Washington, D.C.: The Barnes Review, 2010, pp. 203-211.

[7] Tiedemann, Herbert, “Babi Yar: Critical Questions and Comments,” in Gauss, Ernst (ed.), Dissecting the Holocaust: The Growing Critique of Truth and Memory, Capshaw, Ala.: Theses and Dissertations Press, 2000, p. 497.

[8] Ibid., pp. 499, 521.

[9] Winter, Peter, The Six Million: Fact or Fiction?, The Revisionist Press, 2015, p. 25.

[10] Mattogno, Carlo and Graf, Jürgen, Treblinka: Transit Camp or Extermination Camp?, Washington, D.C.: The Barnes Review, 2010, pp. 220-221.

[11] Ibid., p. 220.

[12] Ibid., p. 221.

[13] Ball, John C., Air Photo Evidence: Auschwitz, Treblinka, Majdanek, Sobibor, Bergen Belsen, Belzec, Babi Yar, Katyn Forest, Delta, B.C., Canada: Ball Resources Services Limited, 1992, p. 107.

[14] Ibid., p. 108.

[15] Mattogno, Carlo and Graf, Jürgen, Treblinka: Transit Camp or Extermination Camp?, Washington, D.C.: The Barnes Review, 2010, p. 222.

[16] Tiedemann, Herbert, “Babi Yar: Critical Questions and Comments,” in Gauss, Ernst (ed.), Dissecting the Holocaust: The Growing Critique of Truth and Memory, Capshaw, Ala.: Theses and Dissertations Press, 2000, p. 500.

[17] Ibid., pp. 498-524.

[18] Wiesel, Elie, The Jews of Silence, London: Vallentine Mitchell, 1968, p. 37.

[19] Wiesel, Elie, Paroles d’étranger, Paris: Editions du Seuil, 1982, p. 86.

[20] Kuznetsov, A. Anatoli, Babi Yar: A Document in the Form of a Novel, New York: Farrar, Straus and Giroux, 1970, p. 14.

[21] Ibid., p. 365.

[22] Brandon, Ray (editor) and Lower, Wendy (editor), The Shoah in Ukraine: History, Testimony, Memorialization, Bloomington, Ind.: Indiana University Press, 2008, pp. 294-295.

[23] Ibid., p. 309.

[24] Tiedemann, Herbert, “Babi Yar: Critical Questions and Comments,” in Gauss, Ernst (ed.), Dissecting the Holocaust: The Growing Critique of Truth and Memory, Capshaw, Ala.: Theses and Dissertations Press, 2000, p. 523.

[25] Graf, Jürgen, “The Moral and Intellectual Bankruptcy of a Scholar,” Inconvenient History, Vol. 3, No. 4, 2011.

[26] Tiedemann, Herbert, “Babi Yar: Critical Questions and Comments,” in Gauss, Ernst (ed.), Dissecting the Holocaust: The Growing Critique of Truth and Memory, Capshaw, Ala.: Theses and Dissertations Press, 2000, pp. 524-525.

[27] Ball, John Clive, “Air Photo Evidence,” in Gauss, Ernst (ed.), Dissecting the Holocaust: The Growing Critique of Truth and Memory, Capshaw, Ala.: Theses and Dissertations Press, 2000, pp. 275, 284.

(Republished from Inconvenient History by permission of author or representative)
 
• Category: History • Tags: American Media, Holocaust, Jews, World War II 
Hide 231 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
    []
  1. Sean says:

    Hence, the mass graves and mass cremations attested to by witnesses at Babi Yar did not take place.

    Or it did take place, but it was the Soviets who did it,

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Wally
    , @Richard B
  2. Wally says: • Website

    The mentioned aerial photo enlargement:

    As stated, nothing happening that would necessarily be happening IF the story was factual.

    Here we have an an excavation which found nothing:
    Excavation Result: No Enormous Human Remains as Alleged at Babi Yar: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11314
    much more:
    Alleged Bodies at Babi Yar, John Gibbons Reporting: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7302
    also see:
    ‘What Happened at Babi Yar? Fact vs. Myth’
    Using air photos and wartime newspapers, Ukrainian writer MICHAEL NIKIFORUK attacks a few myths about a wartime atrocity.
    http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/BabiYar/Nikiforuk.html
    and:
    ‘Babi Yar: Critical Questions and Comments’: http://codoh.com/library/document/920/?lang=en

    Why do some people want 6M Jews to be dead? Revisionists bring them life affirming good news, 6M Jews were not murdered. Jews should be elated.

  3. Wally says: • Website

    As if German soldiers were allowed to just take snapshots of the allegedly ‘top secret extermination of Jews’ , here we have, according to the Times of Israel, a obviously fake “photo” that is supposed to be “proof” of the alleged massacre of 34,000 Jews at Babi Yar.

    caption: Photo taken from the body of a dead German officer killed in Russia, showing a Nazi firing squad shooting Jews in the back as they sit beside their own mass grave, in Babi Yar, Kiev, 1942.

    No alleged human remains of millions upon millions to be seen in allegedly known locations, no ‘holocaust’.

    • Replies: @Carolyn Yeager
    , @VICB3
  4. Elie Wiesel’s geysers of blood story indicates that we have to do here with myth rather than with history, just like the Exodus story of the Old Testament. Very dramatic, but never happened.

  5. File this in with the “lamp shades” made of Jewish Skin by the Nazis. Most of the Jewish Historical, Biblical, and Archaeological facts are nothing but nonsense. From Exodus to their Homeland is nothing but lies.

    Of course, they will control history including their murder of Christians in Russia during the Bolshevik Revolution which will be wiped from the records because they have never done anything wrong ever. They are the parasites of humanity and they never give up.

    • Replies: @Richard B
  6. gotmituns says:

    Babi Yar is just another jewish lie.

  7. Alfred says:

    Who said that you need proof for anything these days?

    We are living in a post-truth world. Where they lock up a wealthy paedophile – an embarrassment to Mossad – with a mass-murderer in the same cell. Where Iran and Lebanon are accused of terrorism for trying to protect themselves. Where the earth has been cooling for 10 years and the media is claiming otherwise. Where paid-for demos in Moscow and Hong Kong are headlines everywhere and the French Yellow Vests are unmentionable. Where the taxi drivers of Kharkov, east Ukraine, claim that Australian troops are in town and the Australian media and parliament pretend ignorance. Where windmills and PV cells are expected to work when there is no wind or sunshine.

    Let’s go with the flow and see how it will end. I suspect it will end very badly. I’m really glad I was born in 1950.

    • Agree: Johnny Walker Read, Fox
    • Replies: @Moi
    , @Achilles Wannabe
  8. Kassandra says:

    A good friend of mine had been ordered when staying overnight in Kiev on the way back to his unit at the front line to a guarding platoon fencing off the Baby Yar killing site. From his position on a hill top he had to wach the nauseating slaughter for three days until being released to continue to his unit at the front. That had been his Slaughterhouse-five moment, and he always had been proud of never being promoted, staying a private until the end of WWII, assuring his conviction that all officers are criminals. He never talked about this experience until short before his death.
    He was a very bright and sincere fellow, after his time at the Russin front (Gerd Fröbe has been his friend in the trenches), he has been relocated to an intelligence unit analysing allied radio communication (illegal Doping early warning friends in a resistance network on incoming bombing raids), and he deciffered the PLUTO keyword (Pipeline under the ocean) in 44, but his superiors dismissed his analysis as being technically impossible. In 45 he crossed the frontline to the advancing US army at Halle to negotiate a capitulation of Halle sparing it from the artillery shelling preparing the attack. Back in the city, he participated in forcing the SS Commander of the City by pointed gun to sign a withdrawal order to his units, and Halle capitulated, the medieaval center undamaged.
    Your armchair juggling with historical records for confirming your prejudices is a cringy exercise.

  9. padre says:

    Why is it “alleged”?

  10. Ok, so they lied. About everything. We know all this. Like Epstein (the latest), whaddya gonna DO about it?

    • Agree: Saggy, Carolyn Yeager
  11. Is there any possibility that the aircraft pictures were mistimed or of the wrong place? Could witnesses be confusing a number of incidents into a single event?
    Other than that, the author is certainly right to raise questions here.
    Killing 33,000 & then digging them up to cremate is a massive task requiring almost industrial processes. It would leave equally massive quantities of evidence. That no bullet evidence has been found is… odd, to say the least. Many bullets could have been destroyed by fire, but all of them?

    • Replies: @Fox
    , @Anonymous
    , @Jim in Jersey
  12. cuckoo says:
    @Kassandra

    A private in a guarding platoon in 1942, never promoted but relocated to intelligence unit instead–as an analyst of allied radio communication in 1944, then negotiator of Halle capitulation in 1945… Very strange career path indeed. BTW, radio signal analysis is not the same as deciphering activity and it requires a completely different set of abilities

    • Replies: @Kassandra
  13. Cowboy [AKA "Kartoffelstampfer"] says:

    When I saw the title of this article, “Babi Yar: The Einsatzgruppen Killings”, my first thought was that this was about the Deir Yassin and that John Wear had used “Einsatzgruppen” sarcastically to describe the Irgun and Haganah.

    Once I read a little further, I realized that the article was about another jewish false flag attack against the Germans, which was just another chapter in the saga of their ancient talmudic battle tactics: “The Jew cries out in pain as he strikes you”.

    To find out what really happened at Babi Yar, one must first look at the Deir Yassin massacre and how jews were behaving within months after they had murdered dozens of honorable German officers at the sham Auschwitz trial for the actions of the jewish Capo’s towards genetically inferior jews the Capo’s sought to eliminate.

    So lets see how Jews really behave when they are engorged in goyim blood lust:

    https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/04/12/deir-yassin-the-massacre-that-sparked-the-nakba/

    A plan was devised to attack Deir Yassin before dawn on April 9, expel all of its residents and kill those who refused to leave in order to seize the village and terrorize Arabs throughout Palestine into flight. In language horrifically reminiscent of the recent Nazi liquidation of the Warsaw Ghetto, Irgun officer Ben-Zion Cohen recounted how Lehi members proposed “liquidating” the entire village. Fortunately, the proposal was rejected, although Deir Yassin was indeed ultimately “liquidated,” like more than 400 other destroyed Arab villages in 1948-49.

    Women and children were meant to be spared, and residents were meant to be warned by loudspeaker to encourage their escape. However, the armored vehicle carrying the loudspeaker crashed early during the attack and the 120 attackers encountered fierce resistance, including sniper fire, from the village guards and other residents, many of whom were armed. The inexperienced Jewish fighters resorted to going from house to house, tossing grenades indiscriminately into each one before storming inside and spraying survivors with submachine guns and other weapons. Fahimeh Ali Mustafa Zeidan, who was 11 years old, later recalled how the attackers…

    … blew the door down, entered and started searching the place; they got to the store room, and took us out one by one. They shot the son-in-law, and when one of his daughters screamed, they shot her too. They then called my brother Mahmoud and shot him in our presence, and when my mother screamed and bent over my brother, carrying my little sister Khadra, who was still being breast fed, they shot my mother too. We all started screaming and crying, but were told that if we did not stop, they would shoot us all. They then lined us up, shot at us, and left.

    Meir Pa’il, an intelligence officer in Palmach, the Haganah strike force, later described his fellow Jewish fighters as “full of lust for murder” during and after the attack. Israeli historian Benny Morris claims there were cases of mutilation and rape. One resident described how the attackers shot a pregnant woman before bashing in her belly; such atrocities were confirmed by Jewish participants. Pa’il wrote that Irgun and Lehi fighters…

    …were going about the village robbing and stealing everything: chickens, radio sets, sugar, money, gold and more… Each [one] walked about the village dirty with blood and proud of the number of persons he had killed.

    “I have seen a great deal of war, but I never saw a sight like Deir Yassin,” confessed Haganah officer Eliahu Arbel, who “saw bodies of women and children who were murdered in their houses in cold blood.”

    Jews make the perfect media contrived “Nazis”. The Mossad is the perfect Gestapo, and the IDF is the perfect SS. When it comes to genocide and lies about genocide, jews are truly their god’s “chosen” murderers and pedophiles.

  14. @Kassandra

    Incessant ramblings here Kassandra. Any proof to go along with your grand fable?

  15. The old saying “truth is the first casualty of war” seems to apply here. I’m thinking Germany had bigger fish to fry in Sept. 1941, say something in line of “Operation Barbarossa”.

  16. 70,000 bodies exhumed / 100 Jewish diggers = 700 bodies dug up per man.

    September 26 – August 18 = 40 days labor

    700 / 40 = 17.5 bodies exhumed per man per day.

    Wow! That’s some digging! Those Jewish men were athletic studs, towering over their contemporaries in Homeric-heroic proportions. Such men do not even exist today. Today, one man would be considered a first-class grave digger if he could excavate just one body per day.

    But more. Not only were they impressive diggers, they also built massive granite and railroad track incinerators AND heaped up the funeral byre AND tended to the actual burning of the bodies.

    One can only shake one’s head in wonder at the superhuman prowess of these 100 Jews. Truly they were of a superior race and evidence that God once walked among us in human form.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  17. anonymous[391] • Disclaimer says:
    @Cowboy

    In language horrifically reminiscent of the recent Nazi liquidation of the Warsaw Ghetto, Irgun officer Ben-Zion Cohen recounted how Lehi members proposed “liquidating” the entire village.

    Let me get this straight:

    years before Warsaw ghetto, Jews in Russia oversaw the killings of millions upon millions of Christians years before Warsaw ghetto.

    years before Warsaw ghetto, Jews in Ottoman Empire had spies and saboteurs all over the place to undermine the Arabs and take possession of Palestine for Jews (Scott Anderson’s Lawrence in Arabia is pretty good on this topic)

    very few years AFTER Warsaw ghetto, Jews in Palestine carry out Deir Yassin (and other atrocities)

    But in the Warsaw ghetto, Jews are exemplary dindunuffins, pure as the driven snow.
    All that rage and will-to-power and capacity to destroy and kill — completely erased from the Jewish psyche.

    got it.

    • Replies: @Curmudgeon
  18. Alfred says:
    @Franklin Ryckaert

    Exodus story of the Old Testament

    Absolutely correct. There is no record of the Jews having been in Palestine at that time. The Egyptians were meticulous about recording such things. Furthermore, Palestine, the fake “Promised Land”, was desert at that time. Before that, it had been Egyptian. The Egyptians abandoned it when the climate changed.

    Yemen is the country where the Jews were at that time. But they were not alone as the other Arabs had their own religions. The Khazarian Jews came from north of the Caspian Sea.

    • Replies: @GW
  19. Moi says:
    @Alfred

    As the Beatles warbled: “We all live in a virtual [fake] reality.” 🙂

    • LOL: Richard B
  20. Mr. Hack says:

    Anatoli Kuznetsov wrote a novel titled Babi Yar to document the alleged Babi Yar massacre. The author was born in Kiev on August 18, 1929.[20] Thus, he was only 12 years old when the alleged massacre of Jews at Babi Yar took place. This is a relatively young age and tends to lessen his credibility.

    Oh, I don’t know. Often enough I think I have a better grasp of what I saw and did as a 12 year old than I do now (50 +). I remember owning and reading Kuznetsov’s book in my 20’s. I seem to remember that the book was not a complete eulogy dedicated to the memory of fallen Jews. The book clearly depicts that not only Jews died unceremoniously at this site, but many Roma and Ukrainians too.

    Reading the Wikipedia entry about the book, I immediately notice that Kuznetsov was 14 and not 12 when he experienced the horrors at Babyn Yar. His book was meticulously researched and included wads of documented first person accounts besides hiw own.

    • Replies: @Wally
  21. Wally says: • Website
    @Sean

    Proof would still be required.

    Or were you just making another of ‘the Russians did it’ jokes?

  22. Waiting for some substantial counternarrative in the comment section, but it seems the strategy seems to be pick the lowest fruits, and ignore the more difficult to discount lies. Same as ADL not attracting too much attention to this sight with their spotlight too then!

  23. Tom Verso says:

    WOW! What a site …Unz Review!

    Time and time again, I read articles here that rip my head open and myths fly out like moths from an old closet.

    The refrain in “Atlas Shrugged” is “Who is John Galt?” Similarly, I find myself saying: Who is Ron Unz?

  24. Wally says:
    @Sean

    Here’s something that the Soviets did do, with plenty of proof, Katyn:

    https://codoh.com/media/files/documents/documents/katyn_v.pdf

    Katyn forest was the scene of the murder of thousands of Polish officers by the Soviet Union. It was falsely accepted into the Nuremberg records that it was the Germans who were responsible for this slaughter. There were ‘documents’, ‘eyewitnesses, ‘confessions’, executions of Germans; all of which allegedly attested to German guilt.

    A detailed, thorough, and verifiable forensic examination (1) of the site was done by the Germans during the war and clearly established Soviet guilt; but no, the Germans were said to be the guilty ones.

    In 1989 the communist Soviet government finally admitted responsibility.

    It should be noted that this detailed, verifiable forensic study by the Germans was the only such study done by the belligerents of WWII. The Allies never conducted any such study of Auschwitz, or the other alleged mass murder sites, or alleged mass graves.

    The pdf file is part of the massive amounts of information that the Germans made available on Katyn.
    (1)
    – corpses were shown ‘in situ’, corpses were exhumed, tagged, identified, the method of execution was clearly shown
    – the study was thoroughly photographed and documented; observers from Axis, Allied, and neutral countries were in attendance

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  25. anonymous[391] • Disclaimer says:
    @ThreeCranes

    they also built massive granite and railroad track incinerators AND heaped up the funeral byre AND tended to the actual burning of the bodies.

    The Germans were wimps, in contrast: in the aftermath of terror-bombings of German cities, it took weeks and weeks of labor by German civilians to gather the bodies — or their remnants, build the pyres of railroad tracks and stone, and burn them.

    https://www.hellstormdocumentary.com/watch/

    https://archive.org/embed/HellstormTheRealGenocideOfNaziGermanyDocumentaryWSubtitles_201511

  26. @Wally

    The photo, captioned as taken at Babi Yar, 1942, shows the ‘victims’ dressed in heavy coats and hats, yet the storyline is that they were forced to undress and walk naked into the ravine/killing area. So this photo, rather than proving anything, disproves the event in question.

  27. Wally says:
    @Mr. Hack

    said:
    “Reading the Wikipedia entry about the book, I immediately notice that Kuznetsov was 14 and not 12 when he experienced the horrors at Babyn Yar. His book was meticulously researched and included wads of documented first person accounts besides hiw own.”

    That’s it? That your proof?
    No human remains as alleged by Jews to see?

    I remind readers here that there were “wads of documented first person accounts” to witchcraft; in witness statements, testimony, and confessons in courts of law all over the world.

    Witchcraft Documents, Testimony, Eyewitnesses: http://salem.lib.virginia.edu/home.html

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  28. Logan says:

    Not buying much of this account, but:

    “Eye witnesses say that for months after the killings the ground continued to spurt geysers of blood. One was always treading on corpses.”

    That’s not the way blood works. It doesn’t stay liquid for hours, much less months.

    Unembalmed bodies can indeed spurt liquids for a long time. As part of the decay process bodies will swell and eventually “pop.” But the liquids involved aren’t blood.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Anonymous
  29. Hossein says:

    Gaza ,the massacres by einsatzjuden .

    • LOL: Cowboy
  30. @Franklin Ryckaert

    Elie Wiesel was a strange character. He made fabulous statements like the “geysers of blood,” which could not be taken seriously, while being taken seriously for most of what else he said. That’s the odd but typical thing about the Jews from the Slav lands – they can believe contradictory things at the same time. Logic plays no part in their reckoning. They have wrongly been given credit for brilliance of mind when it is mostly just chutzpah. Elie Wiesel had chutzpah in spades. http://eliewieseltattoo.com

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Achilles Wannabe
  31. Mr. Hack says:
    @Wally

    Why in the world would Kuznetsov make-up a story like this? He certainly created obstacles for his own advancement as a bourgeoining young soviet writer. He wasn’t Jewish, but was born of a Russian father and Ukrainian mother. He was staunchly opposed to portraying the cataclysmic event as solely a Jewish ordeal, but one encompassing all of humanity. In his own words:

    They published an order for all the Jews in the city to gather in the vicinity of the freight yard with their belongings and valuables. Then they surrounded them and began shooting them. Countless Russians, Ukrainians, and other people, who had come to see their relatives and friends “off to the train,” died in the swarm. They didn’t shoot children but buried them alive, and didn’t finish off the wounded. The fresh earth over the mass graves was alive with movement. In the two years that followed, Russians, Ukrainians, Gypsies, and people of all nationalities were executed in Babyn Yar. The belief that Babyn Yar is an exclusively Jewish grave is wrong, and Yevtushenko portrayed only one aspect of Babyn Yar in his poem. It is an international grave. Nobody will ever determine how many and what nationalities are buried there, because 90% of the corpses were burned, their ashes scattered in ravines and fields.”

    https://day.kyiv.ua/en/article/history-and-i/defection-anatoly-kuznetsov

  32. @anonymous

    What is important to remember is that the Warsaw ghetto was created by the Germans, and that it was essentially a self governing area. The Germans “concentrated” Jews in the ghetto, and the ghetto had factories producing goods for the war effort. The Germans were moving the production and the labour. https://ostarapublications.com/product/the-stroop-report-in-german-and-english/

    The Babi Yar fairy tale is right up there with the coloured crematoria smoke for different people provided by Arnold Friedman, prisoner number B14515, at the Zundel trials.

  33. @Mr. Hack

    Denigrating the debate to ‘who and why’ when ignoring the ‘what’ is the only option for the side for whom documentary evidence is not on their side. Trying to read the mind of a dead man? When would that ever be anything more than pure speculation?

    Are you saying that of the hundreds of millions of Russians, millions of soldiers, you wouldn’t find a handful that would make something up, or have false or mixed memories (especially if having suffered the experience of total war)? The odds are ever not in your favour.

  34. Wally says:
    @Mr. Hack

    – What, you wonder why people lie?

    – What, you wonder why a 12-14 year old boy would lie?

    – Why would people lie about witchcraft?

    – There are no human remains as alleged to see.

    former Einsatzgruppen Members Reject Bizarre Claims of Mass Shootings / Babi Yar, etc.:
    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11396

  35. Wally says:
    @Carolyn Yeager

    Indeed, when speaking of the fake ‘extermination of 34,000 Jews’ at Babi Yar, for which massive remains are claimed, but are not there, Elie Wiesel said:

    “Later, I learn from a witness that, for month after month, the ground never stopped trembling; and that, from time to time, geysers of blood spurted from it.”

    And Eichmann even repeated that absurdity.
    At his 1961 trial Eicmann said that he saw ‘geysers of blood coming up from a field of recently buried Jews’.

    “holocaust historian” Christopher Browning said of Eichmann:

    “through Lemberg, where he witnessed blood spouting in little geysers from a mass grave”

    much more:
    https://forum.codoh.com/search.php?keywords=geysers&fid%5B0%5D=2
    the so called ‘Holocaust’ / theatre of the absurd: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=66

    • Replies: @Carolyn Yeager
  36. @Mr. Hack

    Oh yeah dude, I’m sure exaggerating the extent of Nazi brutality was simply a huge impediment to advancement in the USSR.

    Why in the world would Kuznetsov make-up a story like this?

    Lol. People make up fake holocaust testimonies all the time, often admitting to it when they are eventually exposed. (Are you seriously unaware of this?)

    • Replies: @Wally
  37. @Mr. Hack

    Why in the world would Kuznetsov make-up a story like this?

    Because he made a good living from it in the Soviet Union.

  38. @Kassandra

    ‘A good friend of mine…’

    Your good friend told you how he witnessed Babi Yar — then performed a series of increasingly improbable feats of resistance culminating negotiating the surrender of an entire city (as a private!) in 1945.

    Your friend was almost certainly a fantasist — which is probably why he was never promoted.

    As it happens, I’m convinced the Holocaust happened, Babi Yar is real, etc. However, your story does nothing to confirm the truth of that.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Anonymous
  39. Of all the HolyCo$t whoopers that exist, the Jew Hibachis are one of my favorites.

    75 granite blocks capable of supported Jew/wood piles 12 meters high, and yet no evidence for them exists?

    Since we have learned from reading the testimony of “holocaust” experts, Jews are inflammable. I wonder why they didn’t simply wrap together a well fed Jewish man, an emaciated woman, and a child? Because in this combination Jews are as incendiary as napalm.

  40. Wally says: • Website
    @silviosilver

    The “holocaust”:

    Believe it or go to jail.

  41. Kassandra says:
    @cuckoo

    Yes, had been strange. He did no deciphering, only radio communication analysis (since he spoke very well English). He did not mention whether the PLUTO issue was based on unencrypted radio communication using only the keyword (which might well be the case since a lot of common logistics had been necessary around the top secret network of pipelines), or whether he had been involved in the analysis of decrypted communications as well (unlikely). However, he told us the PLUTO story long before internet became a common resource (beginning of the nineties), I could crosscheck his tale only more than a decade later when I occasionally found documents describing the PLUTO project which had been crucial for the allied bridgehead in the Normandy (https://theromneymarsh.net/pluto). Today, even Wikipedia knows it, at that time when he told the story, it has been impossible to verify.
    The Halle tale from the US Timber Wolfs perspective is told at http://www.104infdiv.org/saale.htm. This story, however failes to mention that the Navy Admiral Felix von Luckner drank so much Whiskey during his visit that he was unable to deliver the conditions for sparing the planned bombing raid back to the German command. My friend who was stationed in Halle and a member of the loose resistance network in the German military, mentioned him in his tale as a liar claiming a decisive role in saving the city. The Lieser group which had contacts with the US Colonel Kelleher since April 11 formed a small platoon entering the Moritzburg without fight where the SS Commander Rathke resided and enforced his signing of the City Mayor proposal for the withdrawal from the central city areas at gunpoint. My friend described this scene in which he participated, and commented it with the words “we would have shot him immediately if he had not followed suit. We had been totally brutalised at that time”. Rathke had refused in previous negotiations with the University and the Mayor to do so, and had ordered a major suicide counter attack. With the document, the Lieser group, the City Mayor and the police president could in a rush organise the whithdrawal and inform Kelleher, who took the city center without major problems next day.

    Babi Yar took place, and it had been a huge massaker.

    • Replies: @Wally
  42. GMC says:

    I’ve lived in Ukraine and Russia and study their history – funny that the Bolsheviks and Chka were 80% jewish in Ukraine prior to WWII and all of a sudden hundreds of thousands of Jews are killed in concentration camps and ‘pogroms’. bs it’s all a lie – After WWII 400,000+ Jews have been let into the US alone – with a free and paid- for- life – on your taxpayers dime. Hell, the Russian folks were told that the Bolsheviks were – just another political party – lol yep, another political party like the Dems or Repubs that killed 20 million since Ive been around. The jews, that are just normal people, know the scam and always have – they are opportunists – but most of them play dumb . Germany , Russia and now America – and Ukraine is run by Jew Presidents, parliament shills and their Nazi Armies.

  43. Anonymous[409] • Disclaimer says:

    Holocaust denial, no matter how hard the ‘revisionists’ try to make it seem objective and intellectual, is at the same level as bone throwing or animal slaughter used to tell the future in ancient times. You will see what you want to see, believe what you want to believe.
    In the case of Babi Yar we have 1) tons of witness and perpetrator testimony 2) documents describing the killings 3) actual photos of the killing process and aftermath (extremely rare in terms of the Holocaust yet constantly demanded for by holocaust deniers – ‘show me a picture of gassed jews’ etc). The only reason there isn’t a bunch of physical forensic evidence is that a dam burst and caused the 1961 Kurenivka mudslide which destroyed the site (as well as causing up to 1500 deaths and leading to criminal convictions of the engineers).
    The denier response? The testimonies must be fake, the documents are forged, the photos are fake too, and the dam bursting must have been part of the conspiracy as well, and all the entire Jewish population of Kiev faked their deaths. Zero proof required, just trust me its true cause i know it in my mind
    And in the cases where there are mass graves? Well, they must have been partisans executed in accordance to the laws of war 🙂 And when the mass graves have babies and small children such as the one recently found with up to 1000 people near the Belorussisan city of Brest, they pull out their secret weapon “the Russians did it!” lol. Nevermind that it was the site of a documented liquidation action by Einzatsgruppen which we knew about for decades before.
    This is why no one takes these people seriously… mental gymnastics and ridiculous standards for “acceptable” evidence through which they give themselves a blank check to call any evidence they dont like as fake but anything they think helps them must be legit.
    http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2006/04/thats-why-it-is-denial-not-revisionism07.html
    http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2017/03/evidence-on-babi-yar-massacre-29-30.html

  44. @Wally

    And Eichmann even repeated that absurdity.
    At his 1961 trial Eicmann said that he saw ‘geysers of blood coming up from a field of recently buried Jews’.

    Are you implying with this that Eichmann was a Jew? If so, I would strongly disagree with that. What Eichmann said in Israeli custody at his trial is not indicative of the true mind of the man, a German, and should not be used as such.
    I hope you will clarify your meaning, Wally.

  45. VICB3 says:
    @Wally

    Another Stalin Order #0428 photo? Horizon blanked out. Fuzzy details. And heavy coats in September? In Ukraine? When it’s ~70 F., i.e. pleasantly warm?

    Another hole in the narrative.

    Just a thought.

    VicB3

  46. Saggy says: • Website

    1) tons of witness and perpetrator testimony

    With the holohoax the ‘perpetrator testimony’ proves the hoax, in this case we have the testimony of Paul Blobel the very Nazi who made the bodies disappear (hence no bodies), he burned them and confessed in court to the crime. And we have his confession ….. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/obliterating-the-traces-of-bodies-of-jews-killed-by-the-einsatzgruppen-june-1947

    During my visit in August I myself observed the burning of bodies in a mass grave near Kiev. This grave was about 55 m. long, 3 m. wide and 2½ m. deep. After the top had been removed the bodies were covered with inflammable material and ignited. It took about two days until the grave burned down to the bottom. I myself observed that the fire had glowed down to the bottom. After that the grave was filled in and the traces were now practically obliterated.

    So, the confession is not only false, it is prima facie preposterous.

    Incidentally at the very time, the summer of ’43, Blobel was burning the bodies in the hoax grave at Babi Yar, a team of forensics experts brought in by the Nazis was excavating a real mass grave at Vinnitsa, 100 km away. See http://www.holohoax101.org/201/

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  47. @Carolyn Yeager

    I don’t want to speak for Wally, but I would guess that Eichmann was leaving a trail of breadcrumbs without risking his testicles being crushed.

    What Eichmann actually stated was that he witnessed a “Blood fountain”. He didn’t state where. But the absurdity of such a statement speaks for itself. He knows that no grown adult would believe such Phantasmagoric claims.

    • Replies: @anarchyst
  48. Fox says:
    @animalogic

    Even if bullets were melted, as in a fire, or turned into oxides through the heat of a fire, the metal would still be there as lumps and would be found; or metal oxides would very easily be detected by chemical analyses, and by using modern means, one could detect metal traces many miles away, as oxides would have been carried off with the smoke, and come down as fall-out. That’s how one map the pollution around industrial metal works, including smelters electro platers. From such data it would be possible to pinpoint the origin of the these metals or metal oxides.
    That’s also a task for a saner future, and what’s very good about it, the traces would be there over huge stretches of land which could not all be asphalted over or become suburbs. They would remain, or be provable absent, and thus constitute easily available hard evidence.
    I suppose this, as with similar analyses of or for the alleged ash deposits in the eastern camps, is avoided because of the fear that reality and fiction might not harmonize, or, expressed more strongly, the knowledge that reality and fiction will not harmonize.

    • Replies: @ThreeCranes
    , @renfro
  49. Wally says: • Website
    @Colin Wright

    said:

    “As it happens, I’m convinced the Holocaust happened, Babi Yar is real, etc. ”

    Based upon what?

  50. @Anonymous

    In the case of Babi Yar we have 1) tons of witness and perpetrator testimony 2) documents describing the killings 3) actual photos of the killing process and aftermath

    One, “tons”? Not hardly, only a few witness testimonies that contradict one another. The documents shown at the second link you give on “evidence” are questionable as to authenticity and/or their meaning has to be “interpreted” rather than being clearly convicting. The colorized photos that are shown at same link (the only photos that exist, afaik) do not show a killing process, a single dead body, or “aftermath” of a crime … as promised.

    You claim to have “proof” you don’t have. You point to a website (holo controversies) that publishes long, tedious pages that discourage most readers from ever reading it and finding out that they can’t make sense of what’s written there. It’s all for show. Babi Yar is a lost cause, but the holocaust industry keeps propping it up so as not to admit they lied. Read this book on the Einsatzgruppen: https://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?page_id=39, and find out why the B-Y documents and testimony being hawked are NOT evidence of a crime.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  51. Wally says: • Website
    @Kassandra

    said:

    “Babi Yar took place, and it had been a huge massaker.
    Today, even Wikipedia knows it, at that time when he told the story, it has been impossible to verify.”
    .
    – Where is your proof on the aerial photo?

    – Found the claimed 34,000 Jew remains yet? Let us know when you do

    – Seriously? Laughable Zionist controlled Wikipedia?
    It’s amazing why anyone would cite Wikipedia as a reference for anything which Jews have a special interest in promoting. It’s rather like asking the wolf to guard the chicken coop.

    Zionist Wikipedia Editing Course
    : http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/139189
    How Israel and Its Partisans Work to Censor the Internet: http://www.unz.com/article/how-israel-and-its-partisans-work-to-censor-the-internet/?highlight=wikipedia

    • Replies: @Kassandra
    , @Skeptikal
  52. Anonymous[272] • Disclaimer says:
    @Saggy

    @Saggy oh, its false because you don’t like it? is that the reason? and all the regular local ukranians living there who saw the Nazis gather up the entire Jewish population of Kiev one day are all lying too? all the Nazis are lying too, and won’t say what actually happened to these thousands of people? they even have literal photos of the shootings and German troops walking over the bodies to look for possessions or finish off survivors. i already showed in my other examples how even when there’s physical remains the holocaust deniers start doing mental gymnastics about how this was faked too in some ridiculous schizophrenic just-so explanation so spare me the accusations of being “preposterous” please
    the nazis took thousands of people, shot them, then forced thousands more to lie on top of the bodies of their family, friends and neighbors and shot them too. thats what the Einzatsgruppen death squads were doing over and over and over in Eastern Europe since 1941. thats what happened, deal with it, and stop trying to white wash the crimes of a long dead gone invading army. its really telling how much more comfortable holocaust deniers are talking about how gas chambers were a hoax compared to the much more clearly documented yet arguably more horrific killing actions going on in the East that killed over 1 million Jews and make the death camps suddenly much more logical

    • Replies: @eah
    , @Fox
    , @Saggy
  53. @Carolyn Yeager

    “…Are you implying with this that Eichmann was a Jew..?”

    I always found him the most un-German and most Jewish looking men of the NS leadership. Here are two pictures of his that speak for themselves :

    1)

    2)

    This is not your typical “Germanic” man. If I would have to guess his ethnicity, I would say : a Jew of the Armenoid type.

    • Replies: @Carolyn Yeager
  54. Wally says: • Website
    @Carolyn Yeager

    No, I was not implying Eichmann as a Jew. Not sure where you got that from.

    What I confirmed was that he read & remembered what Wiesel laughably claimed, and then in his attempts at appeasement, recited what he hoped would help save his neck.

    • Replies: @Carolyn Yeager
  55. Anonymous[184] • Disclaimer says:
    @Carolyn Yeager

    @Carolyn Yeager

    how are the documents questionable to their authenticity or difficult to interpret? They literally describe thousands of Jews being taken to the ravine and shot/executed/etc. They even admit the “resettlement” euphemism was just an excuse to avoid panic and the revisionists have never found a single resettled Jew. It seems like you want to have your cake and eat it it too, if there’s any chance you can argue a document doesn’t mean what it looks like it means (like ‘liquidation doesn’t mean killing’ and other ridiculous tactics) you’ll do that, and if you can’t, you can always say its fake.

    • Replies: @eah
    , @Carolyn Yeager
  56. eah says:
    @Anonymous

    Why is it the responsibility of revisionists to find ‘resettled Jews’? — as alleged, Babi Yar was a crime — so it is up to those who claim this crime took place to provide convincing evidence of it, preferably to the ‘beyond a reasonable doubt’ standard used in modern adversarial court proceedings — generally it’s not possible to prove a negative: it cannot be proved that Babi Yar did not happen as alleged — you need to stop this kind of childish nonsense if you want people to take you seriously (not posting as just another ‘Anonymous[NNN]’ would help too).

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  57. Anonymous[178] • Disclaimer says:
    @animalogic

    Killing 33,000 & then digging them up to cremate is a massive task requiring almost industrial processes.

    These alleged corpses were allegedly dug up two years later. What would have remained of them other than bones and dirt? How easy is it to completely incinerate 33,000 dirt-encrusted skeletons?

    • Agree: eah
    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  58. @Fox

    Agree. Thanks for your voice of reason in the cacophony of clamouring disputants.

    We’ll have to wait for a saner future, one in which forensic archaeologists are allowed to ply their trade, unencumbered by skin in the game.

    • Replies: @eah
  59. Anonymous[178] • Disclaimer says:
    @Logan

    Unembalmed bodies can indeed spurt liquids for a long time. As part of the decay process bodies will swell and eventually “pop.” But the liquids involved aren’t blood.

    The witnesses probably mistook those liquids for blood. Or “blood” was just a reasonable shorthand for bodily fluids.

    When the witnesses walked on top of the corpses, the weight from their own bodies probably caused an increase in pressure inside the corpses, causing them to “pop” and spew out fluids.

  60. One thing unmentioned here is that, numbers aside (and the 34K is clearly absurd), the claimed shootings were preceded by a partisan (i.e. terrorist) bombing of German headquarters in Kiev. The EG reports are unreliable for a number of reasons (noted here), but those that do possess some authenticity make very clear: the mass shootings of Jews (which unquestionably took place) were reprisal shootings in response to specific partisan (terror) acts against German forces. In other words, they were a reflection of the brutality of war on the Eastern Front, not part of some “extermination plan”.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  61. Anonymous[178] • Disclaimer says:
    @Logan

    Not buying much of this account, but:

    Which account? The official one, or Wear’s?

  62. Anonymous[178] • Disclaimer says:
    @Colin Wright

    As it happens, I’m convinced the Holocaust happened, Babi Yar is real, etc.

    Define “the Holocaust.”

    Define “Babi Yar.”

  63. Kassandra says:
    @Wally

    Re Wikipadia – I did not refer to Babi Yar, but to PLUTO. Seems you intentionally missed my point to build a fake argument.

    • Replies: @Sharrukin2
  64. Wally says:
    @Anonymous

    1. What courts did they testify in and where can we see the verbatim text and cross examinations?
    I have have already shown ‘testimonies” to witchcraft. There was testimony that Jews were killed by German A-bombs; soap made from Jews, mass murdering steam chambers at Treblinka, on & on it goes. LOL

    2. Anyone with a German typewriter and some Official German stamps, which were captured aplenty, could and did type “documents” which said whatever they wanted them to say.
    ex.: There are “documents” and trials of Germans who were executed for the Katyn murders of thousands of Poles which are now known to have been done by the Soviets.
    That fact is that there were tons of fake “holocaust documents” made during WWII, and CODOH has shown & debunked them.

    3. I’ve seen no photos of the killing process, although I did post one hilarious fake in comment #3 which yu dodged, among other things. LOL Only liars need to make fake photos.

    – You desperately claim that the remains of 34,000 Jews disappeared in a laughable “mudslide” years ago, yet Jews recently went looking for the human remains that they claim still existed.
    They found nothing. LOL

    You’re in over your head.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  65. eah says:
    @Anonymous

    the nazis took thousands of people, shot them, then forced thousands more to lie on top of the bodies of their family, friends and neighbors and shot them too.

    There is of course no proof of this other than what some “eyewitnesses” may have said — so speaking of ‘dealing with it’, you need to acknowledge that — and as this article and its references make clear, for every not obviously unbelievable claim of eyewitnesses, there is another claim, usually many more claims, that are simply nuts: no reasonable person can or should believe them — eg see the stories about ‘geysers of blood’ (or colored smoke in the Zündel trial: of course crematoria do not produce smoke in the first place) — note also the complete lack of forensic investigation, eg a search for the lead/metal bullets, which must still be there in the tens of thousands — or are we to believe the Nazis painstakingly sifted through tons of soil to find and remove all of those too?

    What you claim here is also something no reasonable person can or should believe.

    If you want people to believe the claims about Babi Yar, convincing evidence is required — see comment #58.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  66. anarchyst says:
    @Genrick Yagoda

    Eichmann probably figured that it he made outlandish statements in the court record, they would not be believed. He was wrong. All of the holohoax (oops I mean “holocaust”) claims are outlandish and false.

  67. @Kassandra

    Your friend was full of crap. It was total fantasy.

    As far as Babi Yar your declaration that it happened isn’t proof of anything.

  68. refl says:

    The article makes a concise case that the Babi jar massacre did not take place. For those who want to keep up the story, for three quarters of a century it has been the basical storyline in East and West, that the Nazis were the one and only bad guy in WWII, and there is neither desire nor need to absolve them.

    To gain an understanding of what really happened, I find it necessary to point to the grain of truth which gave the story credibility in the first place: There were the Einsatzgruppen, whose job it was to eradicate the resistance in the rear of the front. As far as I know, the revisionist argument maintains that the Einsatzgruppen order was tempered with to include “Jews” as a group to be shot, while the original order was confined to radical elements, with a focus on Jews in official positions, which made sense regarding the prominence of Jews in the early Soviet Union.
    However, the leading role of Jews among the Bolsheviks has in later years been covered up and was in 1941 already diminishing, which the Germans did not understand.

    I believe that in the course of events this might have lead to the killing of whole jewish communities, as they might have been regarded as a nucleus of bolshevik resistance.
    At the same time, it should be noted that in the course of the partisan war, whole communities of any ethnicity met such a fate.

    So, the eyewitnesses did for some part indeed see something close to what they testified. In their time, they were conveniently railroaded into laying the basis for a falsified account of the events.
    From the very start the eyewitness accounts were integrated and surplanted by anti-German propaganda in the partisan movement.

  69. Fox says:
    @Anonymous

    What you write makes me think of Paget’s “Manstein, his Campaigns and his Trial”. Paget, von Manstein’s barrister at the trial of von Manstein for “war crimes” (the quotation marks are to indicate the generic nature of these trials against Germans only), made some inquiries in the Ukraine after the war and found the witness accounts against von Manstein were a very far-fetched affair. In one town (I think it was Sinferopol), the Jewish population was supposedly wiped out in the German occupation, but upon inquiry, found to flourish, unaware of any the things that were stated in the trial at Hamburg. In today’s world, Paget would probably sent to jail for his action, but in the early 1950s, a lot less was believed and accepted as new creed, as compared to now. Perhaps there was a greater degree of characater strength, and more comprehending intelligence.
    There are, according to the official line of teaching, tons of clear, irrefutable documents revealing the German policy and actions against the Jews, with numbers, names and places, but it is noted that we never get to see these documents. How come? You seem to know a lot about them, so where are they, how clearly do they state what you say (I mean, do they have clear statements or do they have to be churned throught the mill where word meanings are transformed from a code that is provided by the prosection at Nuremberg?), and how well are they authenticated?

  70. Anonymous[361] • Disclaimer says:
    @eah

    the revisionists have no responsibility for anything because they dont have an actual argument and are just being subversive. they know that their standards of proof (throw out any testimony, confession, or document no matter how much corroboration there is as part of some magical co-ordinated impossible hoax they refuse to define) are garbage and would NEVER be applied in any other historical event outside of ww2 and jews.
    the “prove a negative” trope deniers use is a laughable and transparent too since they again have no positions to defend. again, official nazi propaganda said that they were “resettling” all these Jews that historians say were killed yet they know they can’t defend this claim or any other so they stick to going on the attack.
    you can’t prove ghosts don’t exist so they do

    • LOL: eah
    • Replies: @Sharrukin2
    , @eah
  71. @Fox

    Yes, von Mannstein was accused of turning a blind eye to the shootings of 10K Jews in a city in southern Russia (I think it was Simferopol, can’t remember). Later investigations showed that it was actually about 300. Typical pattern: mass shootings did occur, but on a much smaller scale than claimed.

  72. eah says:
    @ThreeCranes

    …skin in the game.

    Only Jews and their sycophants, particular public personalities (eg media and politicians), have “skin in the game” — to the rest of us it’s a historical event, which either happened or didn’t happen as claimed — one used as a moral cudgel against all white, Christian peoples.

    Jews need and use the ‘Holocaust’ to secure the world’s most valuable victimhood franchise.

    Their sycophants, especially politicians, need and use it to show their moral fitness to lead — and attract Jewish money.

    That “skin in the game” will be around for a long, long time — the ‘exterminationist’ narrative must be challenged now — we can’t “wait”.

    • Replies: @Robjil
    , @Anonymous
  73. anonymous[391] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    1. links are broken to the source docs supporting the notations on holocaustcontroversies.blogspot page. Anyone can type anything on the blogspot; proves very little.

    2. but this is curious:

    As has been proved, Jews played a pre-eminent part

    Repeated references to extensive damage caused by Jewish partisans.

    Allegedly 150,000 Jews living here. Verification of these statements has not been possible yet.

    reasonable statement

    1,600 arrests in the course of the first action, measures being evolved to check the entire Jewish population.

    reasonable statement

    Execution of at least 50,000 Jews planned. German Army welcomes measures and demands drastic procedure. Garrison commander advocates public execution of 20 Jews.

    The three parts of this statement don’t fit together:

    “German army welcomes drastic procedure” and “Garrison commander advocates public execution of 20 Jews,” reasonable, and fit together.
    But if “It is not known how many Jews live there,” the “execution of 50,000 Jews is planned” — where does that come from? Is it a number stated to equal the number of Germans whose housing was destroyed?

    Not enough information to validate the statements attributed to Germans — could have been fabricated.

    This is interesting:

    “The Jews who were not yet apprehended as well as those who gradually returned from their flight to the city were in each case treated accordingly.”

    Jews had some ability to move out of and into the city, and presumably to stay outside the city, and also to ‘get lost’ within the population, except that the non-Jewish natives were also pissed with the Jews.

    • Replies: @Wally
  74. Anonymous[645] • Disclaimer says:
    @eah

    this isn’t about one or two eye witnesses. its hundreds or thousands of people confirming the same story – victims, perpetrators, and locals, as with many other aspects of the Holocaust. its impossible that is all part of some elaborate coordinated conspiracy. notice how holocaust deniers are very happy to elevate the accounts of one or two witnesses if they think it contradicts the official story. then suddenly “eyewitness” accounts count, and you’re not putting it in scare quotes anymore. your double standards and hypocrisy are obvious to anyone who hasn’t drank the conspiracy Kool-Aid or isn’t a committed Nazi apologist (the latter of which try to blend in with white nationalists when its obvious who their loyalties really lie with)
    as for your lack of bullets argument.. give me a break. i dont know how much the 1961 flood affected them but even if someone took a metal detector and found a bunch of bullets of various calibers (or, more likely, expended cartridges) it could easily be from the war since Ukraine and the Kiev region were host to many bloody battles during Operation Barbarossa. and in fact that’s exactly the counter-argument you would make, and suddenly this “lack of bullets” argument would be shelved again. maybe you assume i’m an idiot but i assure you, i know your tactics better than you do

  75. eah says:
    @Fox

    …but it is noted that we never get to see these documents. How come?

    Per modern accounts, secrets won by ‘Ultra’ intelligence gathering, eg the breaking of the German Enigma cipher, contributed materially to allied military success (“According to the official historian of British Intelligence, the “Ultra” intelligence produced at Bletchley shortened the war by two to four years, and without it the outcome of the war would have been uncertain.”) — yet in all of those decodes, which apparently included military info so secret and valuable that it affected the outcome of the war, there is not one ‘smoking gun’ related to the alleged extermination of the Jews — ‘how come’?

  76. @Anonymous

    would NEVER be applied in any other historical event outside of ww2 and jews.

    You mean like being arrested and going to prison for denying the Norman invasion of England, or outlawing any questions about what really happened to Julius Caesar ?

    You really have no grasp about how insane this sort of prohibition is.

  77. @Anonymous

    I didn’t say, mean or imply they were “difficult to interpret”, which just shows that you have trouble comprehending what you read. I said the meaning you take from these documents are (or must be) interpretations because they don’t clearly convict the Germans of the crimes alleged. Got that?

    They do not “literally describe thousands of Jews being taken to the ravine and shot/executed.” That has to be deduced from these stories told of driving some Jews to the cemetery location or seeing groups of Jews assembled there and seeing piles of clothing. These accounts have to be taken on faith for there is not a photo in existence of what is alleged to have happened as it happened. When you claim to have photos of the killing process, you are lying. Get that? Everyone else does.

    Documents that don’t follow all the requirements of German protocol as far as signatures, initials, stamps, dates, headings, letterheads, etc, and are copies of copies are considered “questionable.” There has been plenty written about the fake documents that were prepared for the Nuremberg Tribunals. I gave a link to the book that contains the latest revisionist work on Babi Yar, and you can read it online here: https://archive.org/details/EinsatzgruppenCarloMattogno/page/n3 It concludes that Babi Yar “massacre” is greatly exaggerated, just as is the entire so-called holocaust. But I recommend reading Herbert Tiedemann’s older book: http://vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndbabiyar.html

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  78. Robjil says:
    @eah

    Yes, I agree. If this big H was used for peace and love, then who cares.

    It is used in another opposite way as a cudgel as you mentioned against Europeans and European descendants everywhere.

    It is also used to silence the whole earth. Everyone on earth no matter what race can’t speak up about this or investigate this.

    It is destroying the intellectual development of humanity. Humans advanced through curiosity. Humans decline when hit with massive cudgels to be “quiet” and “don’t look”.

    It is the greatest tragedy for humanity the way the Big 6 has been used in the past seventy or so years.

  79. Anonymous[183] • Disclaimer says:
    @Fox

    Sure
    Auschwitz (the first part)
    http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2012/10/index-of-published-evidence-on.html
    Gas vans
    http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2015/10/contemporary-german-documents-on.html
    Mass shootings
    http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2017/04/contemporary-reports-of-killings-in.html

    some of them use euphemisms or coded language which revisionists like to play games like me, but personally terms like “special treatment” or “liquidation” are not ambiguous to me at all (less ambiguous than Tony Soprano saying he took care of someone), especially when they’re literally used interchangeably with gassing and shooting several times. with the Einzatsgruppen reports they didn’t even bother and openly used words like “execution” “X number of Jews shot this month”

    as for their authentication you’re going to have to use your judgment and keep an open mind. go ahead and look at all these documents and decide if all these hundreds of random documents interspaced by space and time, often corroborating testimony or physical evidence years apart, are all part of some elaborate hoax, and they don’t even have the one document the deniers arbitrarily demand (a written order from Hitler to gas jews), or just accept Occam’s razor. the fake/forgery argument is their “get out of jail free” card because they dont have to prove it, just cast doubt, and would never accept this as an argument if we were talking about Communist documents (of course)

  80. @Wally

    Thanks, Wally. Glad you weren’t.

  81. @Beefcake the Mighty

    Can you quote the specific article of the Geneva Convention in force at the time of WWII that allowed for reprisals against civilians? All of you who keep justifying Nazi war crimes keep mentioning how reprisals against civilians were legal under the Geneva Convention, so let’s see the article word for word and what it allowed.

  82. @Franklin Ryckaert

    “Wiesel later repeated this claim with some embellishment: “Later, I learn from a witness that, for month after month, the ground never stopped trembling; and that, from time to time, geysers of blood spurted from it.”[19] This story lacks all credibility.”

    Yes, Wiesel has the same sort of imagination as the writers of schlock horror films. What would cause the ground to tremble and emit “geysers of blood” for months afterward?

  83. Anonymous[231] • Disclaimer says:
    @eah

    the problem is that holocaust denial isn’t even a viable strategy. its idiotic and anti-historical on its face and as dumb as any Alex Jones conspiracy theory. the people that push this the strongest are those married to National Socialism and obsessed with fetishizing Hitler so they want to remove the biggest moral black mark of the Nazis. tied in with that is all sorts of dumb ww2 revisionism that tries to turn the Nazis into the misunderstood good guys protecting Europe when they actually invaded all these countries and killed millions of these “white Christians” you keep talking about and would have killed even more if they won the war, including most of the civilian population of these based Russians and Slavs the right loves now. so yeah, if you think the best counter to hysterics about migrant detention camps = death camps is to sperg out about the holocaust didn’t happen because red cross stats or cremation capacity or other lame debunked talking points, you’re just going to sound even more crazy than you already do, and discredit whatever else you have to say to normies. just talk about other genocides instead maybe

    • Replies: @refl
  84. @Kassandra

    What a coincidence. A friend of my sister’s cat’s grandmother claimed the same things, almost exactly. It’s a small world, ain’t it, Kassie?

  85. renfro says:
    @Fox

    I suppose this, as with similar analyses of or for the alleged ash deposits in the eastern camps, is avoided

    Who prevents it?

  86. eah says:
    @Anonymous

    Your barely coherent ramblings can be described as a look into a bottomless pit of imbecility.

    official nazi propaganda said that they were “resettling” all these Jews that historians say were killed yet they know they can’t defend

    Again: revisionists don’t have to defend anything — ‘exterminationists’ (especially “historians”) must provide convincing proof of the alleged crimes — it’s as simple as that.

    The Höss affidavit/confession submitted as “evidence” at the IMT (in English, a language Höss was not proficient in) claimed he alone was responsible for murdering 2.5m Jews at Auschwitz; under interrogation he also claimed Eichmann corroborated these numbers — Höss left Auschwitz in Nov, 1943, so the 2.5m number does not include the approx 500k Hungarian Jews allegedly gassed and cremated during a 6 – 8 week period in 1944 (ponder the logistics of that).

    Below are fotos of a plaque at Auschwitz as it appeared before and after 1989 (note the word “about” in the new 1989 version) — what should a rational, impartial investigator make of this? — obviously neither Höss nor Eichmann, both allegedly intimately involved in the murder of Jews, knew what they were they talking about: they got the numbers wildly wrong — the official death toll claimed for Auschwitz today, which includes those who died of all causes, including illness (eg typhus), is significantly less than the number of Jews Höss claimed he himself was responsible for.

    What happened to those 2.5m Jews allegedly murdered by the Nazis? — subtracting the 500k Hungarian Jews from the current total of “about” 1.5m makes the Höss “confession” even more ludicrous, since he could have been responsible for max 1m murdered Jews, which is significantly less than half the total in his confession — only an intellectual child can and would believe such patent absurdities.

    The situation re Majdanek is even worse (from the ‘exterminationist’ point of view).

    This nonsense would never hold up in a court of law — for proof of that, see the transcript (not the political verdict) of the Zündel trial.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  87. refl says:
    @Anonymous

    coded language (…), but personally terms like “special treatment” or “liquidation” are not ambiguous to me at all

    What now? Are these terms “coded” or are they “not ambiguous”?
    I suppose you find them both – for the reason that you have been impregnated with the sacrosanct version.
    To be sure, both terms are likely to mean something nasty, but to suppose they mean mass shootings with victims in the hundreds and thousands is quite a stretch.

    all these documents and decide if all these hundreds of random documents interspaced by space and time, often corroborating testimony or physical evidence years apart

    Now please, the Einsatzgruppen shootings – which there were! We are discussing the scale and purpose, not the fact! – took place between end of June 1941 and spring 1942. Nothing here of years apart.
    When the Germans had gone, the Red army troops who reconquered their own country found evidence of German violence on a massive scale – all types of violence – and these findings neatly fitted their propaganda effort.
    The task here is to come to a conclusion, how much of this is true and how much is not.
    I sense that you have read little about the actual events. As I recall, in the times, when I was an orthodox believer in Holocaustianity, I was always struck by the inconsistencies in the accounts.
    I would refer you to the various American Prawda threads on related matter and respectively to the numerous related articles here.
    It took me some years to see things rather clearly and I still have not said my last word on the issue.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  88. refl says:
    @Commentator Mike

    You mean that document that somehow did not protect dozends of German cities from fire bombing?
    Was it for that document that General Eisenhower ordered surrendered German soldiers to be no longer categorized as POW, but as Disarmed enemy forces in March 1945, so he could better starve them?

  89. @Commentator Mike

    Can you explain how that is relevant to anything I wrote here?

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  90. Cyrano says:

    To me it’s quite obvious why there are not too many credible eye witnesses to Babi Yar massacre. The Nazis massacre of the Jews in WW2 is known as the “Final Solution” and it involved some 6 million victims.

    Judging by the number of victims at Babi Yar – “only” 34 thousand – obviously this event doesn’t qualify even as semi-final solution. I think it was the early rounds, pretty much like the tennis tournament at Wimbledon – who could be bothered to watch the early rounds with qualifiers and some low ranking players participating.

    So, basically what I am trying to say is: try think of the Holocaust as a Nazi style Wimbledon. The final solution was a big hit, the semi-finals and the quarter finals didn’t draw as big crowds, and the Babi Yar – which obviously happened in the early rounds – hardly drew any spectators at all.

    • Replies: @Wally
  91. utu says:
    @Commentator Mike

    Can you quote the specific article of the Geneva Convention in force at the time of WWII that allowed for reprisals against civilians?

    Do some research. You will find that reprisals were permitted during WWII.

    https://www.unz.com/article/a-freedom-fighter-to-his-last-breath/#comment-2594742
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostages_Trial

    (1) Reprisals, executing hostages: “The tribunal also remarked that both the British Manual of Military Law and the U.S. Basic Field Manual (Rules of Land Warfare) permitted the taking of reprisals against a civilian population. (The British manual did not mention killing, but the US manual included killing as a possible reprisal.) Nevertheless, the tribunal still found most of the accused guilty on count 1 of the indictment because it considered the acts committed by the German troops to be in excess of the rules under which the tribunal considered hostage taking and reprisal killings lawful.”

    (2) Executing guerrillas: “the partisan fighters in southeast Europe could not be considered lawful belligerents under Article 1,” “Consequently, no criminal responsibility attaches to the defendant List because of the execution of captured partisans.”

    What is also interesting. The wiki seems to suggest, if I am reading it correctly, that Germans were made responsible for crimes committed by Croatians even though there was no German troops in Croatia but Croatia was Germany’s ally however not sufficiently sovereign.

    Only the 1949 Geneva Convention made reprisals illegal.

    War Reprisals in the War Crimes Trials and in the Geneva Conventions of 1949
    https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/american-journal-of-international-law/article/war-reprisals-in-the-war-crimes-trials-and-in-the-geneva-conventions-of-1949/47D2F1AF9F0BBEB1F2556BC52F5CDFEB

  92. Saggy says: • Website
    @Anonymous

    Saggy oh, its false because you don’t like it? is that the reason?

    Blobel’s confession is false, not because I don’t like it, but because it is preposterous. So, let’s look at it again ….

    After the top had been removed the bodies were covered with inflammable material and ignited. It took about two days until the grave burned down to the bottom.

    If you uncover a grave and pour gasoline to cover the uncovered bodies it will quickly be absorbed into the ground. So, keep pouring till the bodies are covered or partially covered for a minute, and start the fire. It will burn above the bodies, and bodies will not be burned at all.

    Lagniappe: The above is obvious, but, engineer that I am I wanted to try this, so I took a big pan, half way filled it with cut up chicken pieces, poured on the gasoline and went out , and lit it. It burned for about 30 minutes (I don’t recall if all the gasoline had burned, or not, I don’t think so). The chicken was not singed.

    Blobel says that not only were the bodies burned, he says that all traces were obliterated. It is perfectly preposterous (if you have at least half a brain, that is).

  93. @Anonymous

    Occam’s Razor is unkind to the idea that undertrained rear-echelon/paramilitary forces would use goofy euphemisms in their reports at the height of their power, apparently for no other reason than to play practical jokes on future historians.
    And it is likewise an unnecessary leap of faith to claim that if the Soviets took the effort to make demonstrably fake photos of German atrocities, they would not have just made any number of “documents” they wanted with a looted typewriter.

    But then, logic does not live under the same roof as obsessive, pseudo-religious fixations.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  94. @Franklin Ryckaert

    Is there a typical “Germanic” man? If a poll or vote on this was taken, the winner would probably be someone who wasn’t even “Germanic.”

    When cherry-picking pictures, one can usually find one that looks the way you want it to. How many times has Josef Goebbels been said to look Jewish? In fact, every prominent National Socialist has been called a Jew, even Adolf Hitler.

    Eichmann was an Austrian, and so many Austrian Germans do tend to have a facial structure that is most noticeable in profile. The bone structure of the mouth and chin is set slightly farther back than the forehead and nose … the opposite of the Negroid bone structure where the mouth and chin jut forward. This can give the impression in a front view of the nose being larger and the mouth smaller, especially as one grows older. I’ve seen this in many Austrians that I’ve had the opportunity to see from different views; for example, Heinz-Christian Strache is one. Very obvious in him.

    So sorry Franklin, but Eichmann looks Austrian to me. Most Jews have full, even fat lips; Austrians usually have thin lips. Small mouth, thin lips – that’s Eichmann. But it’s interesting that you consider yourself an expert on Jewish types.

    As for these two photos, the first is clearly a retouched Kafkaesque image, but even so, couldn’t this man be a non-Jewish German? Of course he could. The second, Eichmann as an older man, pretty sure in Israeli custody now, you can see he’s quite aware of his relative weakness, he’s lost any cockiness he might have had. He looks every bit a German to me. And the Israelis would not have hung a Jew … so that leaves you with another conspiracy theory to deal with.

    • Replies: @Franklin Ryckaert
  95. refl says:
    @Anonymous

    the problem is that Holocaustianity isn’t even a viable strategy. its idiotic and anti-historical on its face and as dumb as any Alex Jones conspiracy theory. the people that push this the strongest are those married to Anglozionist liberal Imperialism and obsessed with fetishizing the Western empire so they want to keep the biggest moral black mark of the Nazis. tied in with that is all sorts of dumb ww2 atrocity propaganda that tries to maintain the myth that the Americans liberated Europe

    Your words, my corrections. Let me inform you that WWII ended in 1945, the Soviet empire ended in 1991, which means that for the US empire it also might be time for some transformation.
    Further, the story of American military involvement around the world is one of serial blunders since well before the Nazi takeover in Germany. That event in fact is closely related to american blunder in WWI and thereafter.
    In my life, I have not met anyone who fetishizes Hitler in this country, and I live at the source.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  96. Anonymous[851] • Disclaimer says:
    @Commentator Mike

    he didn’t cite the Geneva convention cause indiscriminate reprisals aren’t legal, assuming he’s even intelligent enough to make a cohesive argument. they try to conceal their pro-Nazi bias by hiding behind word play but their mask keeps slipping, notice how he calls the destruction of the headquarters of a foreign occupier “terrorism” – as if they had targeted German civilian shoppers back in the Fatherland instead. dont forget that wars of aggression are against the Geneva convention in the first place so…

    Even admitting to reprisals would be too much for many holocaust deniers. If there is any possibility to spin a massacre as the rightful shooting of enemy fighting partisans (even unlawful combatants officially require a trial but lets be realistic here) they will do so, so if an Einzatsgruppen report lists 300 Jews shot in some village, they were partisans, even if other EG reports always listed partisans, spies, Soviet troops or officials as separate categories. If the report specifically breaks down the death count into women and children Jews as well (like the Jager report), they will simply say its fake. Or i’ve even seen arguments that when 300 men, 300 women and 300 children were shot and a village emptied of Jews, the 600 men and women were partisans and they shot the children because they felt sorry for them because they would be orphaned so it was the humane thing to do 😀 its all a big game, as is the reprisal argument in general. you tactically admit to smaller crime to make denial of larger scale shootings and gassings to seem more realistic and even handed

    then for the finishing move, distract with German civilian casualty rates from bombing etc which were still orders of magnitude lower than those the Nazis inflicted during the war (especially in the East), even excluding Jewish deaths. More Russians died in the Siege of Leningrad than the entire bombing campaign against Germany, and the latter deaths would be considered merciful compared to the former. The Russian civilians even had a practice of child trading, where when people were resorting to cannibalism to save their families, you would trade your weakest child with a neighbors so you wouldn’t have to live with the trauma of having to do it yourself. let that sink in before you start crying about the poor Nazi civilians who died when the war came back home to them

  97. Wally says: • Website
    @Cyrano

    said:
    ” “only” 34 thousand – obviously this event doesn’t qualify even as semi-final solution.”

    Except that the liars can’t even keep their lies straight.

    Claimed victim numbers at Babi Yar according to different sources:

    300,000 __ Vitaly Korotych
    200,000 __ Vladimir Posner
    150,000 __ Speech during inauguration of memorial
    110,000 __ – 140,000 New York Times (Rudolf 2003a, p. 514)
    100,000 __ IMT (vol. 7, p. 556), Western Encyclopedias 236
    80,000 __ Soviet Commission
    70,000 __ Soviet Encyclopedias
    52,000 __ World Jewish Congress
    50,000 __ Genadi Udovenko
    38,000 __ Polish resistance
    33,771 __ Activity- and Situation Report No. 6
    30,000 __ Leni Yahil (Rudolf 2003a, p. 520)
    10,000 __ Grand Dictionnaire Encyclopédique Larousse
    3,000 __ Encyclopedia of Ukraine

    see: Lectures on the Holocaust—Controversial Issues Cross Examined
    http://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?page_id=15
    PDF: http://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/15-loth.pdf%5B/quote%5D

    • Replies: @Cyrano
  98. Anonymous[366] • Disclaimer says:
    @eah

    Höss’s 2.5 million number was something he said he got from Eichmann because he didn’t take exact notes. Later in Polish custody he revised his number down to one very close to the official 1.1 million figure including a breakdown of where they were shipped from, again, corroborated later by historians. I’m sure you know this, you’re just hoping I’m going to be impressed by your tired revisionist narratives, like this confusion and contradiction in casualty rates immediately after the war don’t further prove that this was an organic event and not the delusional, fantastical top-down coordinated false flag that has been kept a total secret for decades. same thing with your Auschwitz plaque meme, this is just embarrassing for you, using crappy debunked propaganda from Twitter like this. it was Soviet propaganda, thats why it says 4 million people, not 4 million Jews. again, i can tell by your writing that you’re well versed in this debate and know these arguments are crap used to fool less knowledgeable people yet you post them anyway. very telling

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Sharrukin2
  99. Anonymous[366] • Disclaimer says:
    @refl

    haha whatever. the Nazis tried to conquer all of Europe and make a 1000 Year Reich. all of your political spin, whataboutisms about the Americans or whining about the Jews isn’t going to change the mind of anyone with above room temperature IQ and the ability to understand a historical map. You just think secretly think it was justified, and if you really are German or Austrian, it would be less disrespectful if you could just come out and say that your people deserved to rule the world and might makes right instead of dancing around and pretending you’re an anti-imperialist or something. I bet you have really strong views about Israel too and are outraged about what’s happening to the Palestinians too, am i right? 😉

    • Replies: @refl
  100. Wally says:
    @anonymous

    You dodged my challenges to you and then you cop out by claiming ‘broken links’, hilarious.
    And then we also have:
    Bodies at Babi Yar, John Gibbons Reporting: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7302
    which further demolishes your Zionist horseshit..

    Great stuff proving the Communists couldn’t keep their lies straight either, see text via CODOH link.
    http://oi45.tinypic.com/mh7m1d.jpg
    And not a single picture of what is claimed.

  101. @Beefcake the Mighty

    You wrote:

    the mass shootings of Jews (which unquestionably took place) were reprisal shootings in response to specific partisan (terror) acts against German forces.

    So I presumed you thought it was justified. Sorry if I’m wrong.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  102. Anonymous[366] • Disclaimer says:
    @Carolyn Yeager

    oh okay, what can you deduce from this? does execution mean something else to you?

    “Einsatzgruppe C: Location Kiev, reports:

    Security police measures: Sonderkommando 4a has reached the total number of 51,000 executions. With the exception of the special action on 28 and 29 September in Kiev, which was supported by two commandos of Police Regiment South, the executions were carried out by the SK without any other help. Those executed were mostly Jews, a smaller part were political functionaries, saboteurs and plunderers.”

    now you’re probably going to frantically search the revisionist sites to see if anyone has hopefully declared this document to be fake as well. good luck 😀

    • Replies: @Carolyn Yeager
    , @Wally
    , @Wally
  103. @Anonymous

    Well, I see someone has instructed you that paragraph breaks make your rubbish more legible.

  104. Anonymous[410] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sprickoló Tömegek

    what are you talking about? Einsatzgruppen used the least amount of euphemisms.

    and it was officers making reports, not the lower ranks. even that was clamped down on eventually.

    at the height of their power

    there is no reason why they shouldn’t try to keep their crimes secret, especially when it came time for the quick deportation of massive amounts of European Jews for gassings (as opposed to being shot peacemeal in the USSR), not just to avoid a panic, but to avoid the political consequences of mass killings being discovered after they had so effectively used Katyn as a propaganda victory in 1943. That was the entire point of Sonderaktion 1005 which began the same year. and when they started losing, it became doubly important.

    and if everything is fake anyway, then why are you even discussing this? forget the Soviets, i’m sure any document discovered by the Western allies concerning the holocaust you would consider to be fake too, the Soviets didn’t really care that much about dead Jews cause it distracted from dead Russians, or gentiles killed by the fascists in countries they “liberated” later. this is the mind of a delusional conspiracy theorist with an axe to grind, there’s always a way to twist things. the same people that demand to see documented proof of a systematic policy to exterminate Jews (preferably signed by Adolf), which they would immediately decry as fake if it did turn up anyway 😀

  105. Wally says:
    @Anonymous

    said:
    “Later in Polish custody he revised his number down to one very close to the official 1.1 million figure including a breakdown of where they were shipped from, again, corroborated later by historians.”
    – Duh! Torture will make one say whatever is desired by the torturers.
    Holocaust HOAX is based almost entirely on TORTURE!: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8603

    – Corroborated? How? By Who? The guys below?

    From a long series compiled by Robert Faurisson.
    The ever changing fake Auschwitz numbers: https://forum.codoh.com/search.php?keywords=faurisson&t=5631&sf=msgonly

    [MORE]

    9,000,000 persons
    according to the documentary film Nuit et Brouillard (Night and Fog, 1955), whose historical advisers were the historians Henri Michel and Olga Wormser-Migot.
    8,000,000 persons
    according to the French War Crime Research Office and the French War Crime Information Service (1945).
    7,000,000 persons
    according to Raphaël Feigelson (1945).
    6,000,000 Jews
    according to Tibère Kremer, writer of a foreword for Miklos Nyiszli (1951).
    5,000,000 to 5,500,000 persons
    according to Bernard Czardybon (1945), according to confessions attributed to some SS members and according to the newspaper Le Monde (1978) that added: “of whom 90% Jews”.
    4,500,000 persons
    according to Henryk Mandelbaum (1945).
    4,000,000 persons
    according to a Soviet document of which the Nuremberg tribunal took “judicial notice”. This figure was inscribed nineteen times, with a commentary in as many different languages, on the Auschwitz-Birkenau monument.
    It was repeated by many different authors, including the Polish historian Franciszek Piper, ex-curator of the Auschwitz Museum.
    Then, it was declared false in 1990 and replaced on the monument, in 1995, by the figure of 1,500,000 with the concurrence of the same F. Piper for whom this figure is a maximum, while the minimum figure is 1,100,000.
    According to Miriam Novitch (1967), of the 4,000,000 dead, 2,700,000 were Jewish.
    According to Rabbi Moshe Weiss (1991), more than 4,000,000 persons died at Auchwitz, of whom 3,000,000 were Jews.
    3,500,000 persons
    according to the Dictionnaire de la langue française published by Hachette (1991). According to Claude Lanzmann (1980), there were 3,500,000 gassed of whom 95% of Jews as well as many other deaths.
    3,000,000 persons
    until December 1st, 1943, according to a confession extorted from Rudolf Höss, ex-Commander of Auschwitz.
    3,000,000 Jews gassed
    according to David Susskind (1986) and according to Heritage, the most important Californian Jewish weekly (1993).
    2,500,000 persons
    according to Rudolf Vrba for the Eichmann trial (1961).
    2,000,000 to 4,000,000 (?)
    according to the historian Yehuda Bauer (1982).
    2,000,000 to 3,000,000 Jews killed as well as thousands of non-Jews
    according to a confession attributed to an SS named Pery Broad.
    2,000,000 to 2,500,000 persons killed
    according to a confession attributed to an SS physician, Dr. Friedrich Entress (1945).
    2,000,000 persons
    according to the historian Léon Poliakov (1951); according to the historian Georges Wellers (1973) and according to the woman historian Lucy Davidowicz (1975).
    1,600,000 persons
    according to the historian Yehuda Bauer (1989), of whom 1,352,980 Jews (the latter figure is from Georges Wellers, 1983).
    1,500,000 persons
    this figure, chosen by Lech Walesa, replaced, in 1995, on the Birkenau monument, the previous one of 4,000,000, withdrawn in 1990.
    1,471,595 persons
    of whom 1,352,980 Jews, according to the historian Georges Wellers (1983).
    1,250,000 persons or so
    of whom 1,000,000 Jews killed and more than 250,000 non-Jews dead
    , according to the historian Raul Hilberg.
    1,100,000 to 1,500,000 persons
    according to the historians Yisrael Gutman, Michael Berenbaum and Franciszek Piper (1994).
    1,000,000 persons
    according to Jean-Claude Pressac (1989) and the Dictionnaire des noms propres published by Hachette (1992).
    800,000 to 900,000 persons
    according to the historian Gerald Reitlinger (1953).
    775,000 to 800,000 persons
    according to Jean-Claude Pressac (1993), of whom 630,000 were gassed Jews.
    630,000 to 710,000 persons
    according to Jean-Claude Pressac (1994), of whom from 470,000 to 550,000 were gassed Jews.

    Please note that although in his “spontaneous” confession (with the help of “alcohol and the whip”, as he himself put it) camp Commandant Rudolf Hoess, the so-called “proud technician”, claimed 3.000.000, very few apparently take notice or believe him…

    And we therefore reach the last generation of figures (no pun intended) with Jean-Claude Pressac who pointed out a figure of 775.000 in 1993. However, he lowered the total number to 630.000 victims — only “470.000 to 550.000” of which Jews — in 1994.
    Of course, as soon as 08.01.1948, Welt im Film (British newsreel, nbr. 137) was indicating a figure of 300.000, but more recently it was revealed that the mortuary books (Sterbebücher) which had been kept during the war by the Auschwitz camp authorities exist at least from 27.07.1941 to 31.12.1943.
    Since the camp was opened in 20.05.1940 and evacuated in 18.01.1945, that period represents a little more than half the duration of the camp’s existence under German authority. The books, as released after more than 40 years, thanks in part to the Zundel trials of 1985 and 1988, appear to include approximately 69,000 names.
    Also consider the International Red Cross archives at Arolsen, always closed to revisionists.
    Can the archives of an organisation like the IRC be trusted, since neither individual “Holocaust scholars” nor the media appear to remotely know what they are talking about? Here is the figure then (17.08.1994):
    International Red Cross at Arolsen: 66.206
    Dept. of Holocaust investigations (Ref. nbr: 10824).<blockquote.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  106. A bit OT, but using just mainstream sources (like wiki), it can be shown that the Auschwitz story can’t be true, the numbers don’t add up:

    http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/teaching-holocaust/#comment-3370599

  107. @Anonymous

    Why would the Soviet state care about dead Russians?

  108. @Commentator Mike

    Nice false narrative you’ve got going there.

  109. @Anonymous

    Höss’s 2.5 million number was something he said he got from Eichmann because he didn’t take exact notes.

    Wasn’t Hoss the commander of Auschwitz?

    And we are expected to believe he didn’t know how many were eliminated at his camp?

    • Replies: @Saggy
  110. Fox says:
    @Anonymous

    “Euphemisms”, “coded language” – please!!!
    This is just plainly airy-fairy.
    You have to deal with reality, not arbitrary assignments of whatever you read or see could mean in your reality.
    Do you want to end up in court and have your life interpreted by a prosecutor, who has the unshakeable intent to have you found guilty as charged and worse, according to a flexible key of coded intent, euphemistic naming, hidden true meanings of your actions?
    I am certain that I could, for example, put a lot of fantastic and completely invented meaning in your regular consumption of coffee at that one place you like so much (or other habits, or just single deeds).
    Think about this: Once you open the gates into a world of fantasy, there is no stopping, everything becomes possible.
    Therefore, one has to stick with factual facts and not railroad them into something non contained in them.
    In this vein, even the absence of evidence becomes a proof.
    And that’s just not the world we live in.

  111. Saggy says: • Website
    @Sharrukin2

    And we are expected to believe he didn’t know how many were eliminated at his camp?

    The USHMM now estimates that the total number of prisoners transferred into Auschwitz for the entire was was 1.3 million ….

    https://www.ushmm.org/information/exhibitions/online-exhibitions/special-focus/liberation-of-auschwitz

    Thus Hoess confessed to killing more than twice the number of prisoners who were transferred into the camps.

    And Auschwitz was a major industrial center supplying tens of thousands of workers to nearby Siemens, Krupp, Farben, Deutch Armaments, etc. factories.

    Does it make sense that the Nazis would bring prisoners in the camps and send them to work in factories while killing their families. It is absurd.

    The Auschwitz Farben plant …

    • Replies: @Sharrukin2
  112. Theodore says:
    @Anonymous

    That document is an obvious fake

    Another fake “Holocaust” document: ‘363,211 Jews executed’, etc.
    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=11212

    Summary:

    It is an alleged report from Himmler to Hitler, on anti-partisan warfare, dated 29 December 1942. It can be referred to as “Meldung Nr. 51” (Rapport Nr. 51) or document NO-1128. In one place in this report, there is a claim that 363,211 Jews were killed in August-November 1942.

    – There are no “Top Secret” stamps whatsoever, despite something so incriminating

    – There is only a “typewritten” signature, meaning someone typed ‘H. Himmler’. There are some scribbles at the top right that are not Himmler’s signature, which would have been the easiest to forge.

    – The document is supposedly about “Partisanenkrieg” (guerrilla warfare) so why even mention Jewish executions? It also mentions the capture of “200 spades, shovels and saws” on the same page as hundreds of thousands of murdered jews

    – There are two documents, they are both “Copies”. One is prepared on what looks similar to Himmler’s typewriter, and the other with a typewriting using typeface like “Times New Roman” (suggesting Anglo/American)

    – There are usually 2 page numbers on each page, with one typed and another written at the bottom by Americans (not sure why)

    – The claim is that 363,211 Jews were killed in 4 months, or 91,000 per month, or 3,000 per day. Yet the SS and Ordnungs-und-Sicherheitspolizei are said to have lost a total of only 174 men killed in combat over the same period. It seems incredible

    – Porter suggests maybe “Juden evakuiert” was altered to “Juden executiert” and/or a few digits added to inflate the number. Most forgeries are actually legitimate documents with very minor changes (according to US congressional hearings on Soviet forgeries a la “Active Measures”)

    David Irving said:
    “It’s a document that raises my eyebrows. It’s a document I am unhappy about because it — it is so — it’s a rare document. It pokes out above the clouds of the other archives like Mount Kilimanjaro. You wonder what it’s doing there. If you work in the archives, you’re familiar with documents and you’re familiar with statistics and tables and suddenly you come across this document which is the only one of its kind containing this kind of statistics. […] and to have that item, ‘c) Jews executed’, inserted there almost as an afterthought, a figure that is twenty or thirty times as large as any other figure on the page.” (Source: http://www.ihr.org/books/kulaszka/35irving.html)

    • Agree: Wally
  113. Cyrano says:
    @Wally

    What are you trying to say? That the Holocaust doesn’t qualify as a Grand Slam tournament? Next thing you know, you’re going to say that they shouldn’t have introduced the sudden death rule. But that way the tournament could have lasted forever – or until one of the participants dropped dead – from exhaustion.

    • Replies: @Wally
  114. @Saggy

    The story keeps changing and very little of it makes sense. I have no doubt the Germans carried out atrocities and executions, but the holocaust story is mostly bs.

  115. @Anonymous

    No, I’m not going to frantically search for anything because you’ve got nothing. It’s true I don’t know the status of this document, but I’ll accept your translation for the purpose of answering. In essence:

    With the exception of the special action on 28 and 29 September in Kiev, which was supported by two commandos of Police Regiment South, […]

    That’s it. It says there was a special action on 28-29 Sept. supported by two Police commandos. Nothing else about it.

    Unlike you, I have read Carlo Mattogno’s Einsatzgruppen book, so I know he professes that many group executions of Jews took place — criminal enemy Jews and Partisan Jews who were performing sabotage against the German effort and capturing, torturing and killing German troops. [He emphasizes that the Germans saw the Jews as Bolsheviks (Germany’s prime enemy); were not fighting Jews as Jews.] We know that Germans would carry out reprisals, and also cleansings, because of the explosions, fires, etc. resulting in German deaths caused by Jewish sabotage in Kiev. At issue is how, why and how many. Most Einsatzgruppe reports give inflated numbers, but certainly they were carrying out their job.

    The problem you have is that the Germans eventually retreated back toward the West, and it was only the Red Army that then controlled those areas. THEY SAY that the Germans had dug up all the bodies they had buried and burned them on their way back. Since there is no forensic evidence of this, why would anyone believe it? Since we have no bodies (corpses) to prove all that killing, and no evidence of burning, this puzzle is not solved no matter how many documents you find, reveal or invent.

  116. Theodore says:
    @Anonymous

    but personally terms like “special treatment” or “liquidation” are not ambiguous to me at all

    Except there are various examples of both terms being used in a non-homicidal sense

    Special Treatment in Auschwitz
    https://archive.org/details/SpecialTreatmentInAuschwitz_447/

    Regarding “Liquidation”:
    https://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Meanings_and_translations_of_German_words_and_Holocaust_revisionism#Liquidierung
    “Etymologically the German Liquidierung (verb: “liquidieren”) and the English liquidate originate from the Latin liquidus (“liquid”). Various extended meanings originate from the sense of making something clear or to clarify. Applied by communists to ideological opponents in the sense of cleansing, purifying, or purging in the 1920s. This use by communists meant removing, such as by excluding from an organization, and not necessarily killing. A similar word is “purge”, etymologically also meaning to “make clear”, and in an extended sense also meaning “removing” (such as from an organization), and not necessarily killing.

    How these ambiguous words are used in German (or English) today do no necessarily prove how these words were used in Germany in the 1930s and 1940s (especially as the current usage may have been influenced by the alleged use during the Holocaust). An example of an extensive changing of meaning is the English word liquidate. The 1828 and 1913 Webster’s dictionaries list no sense in which liquidate means “to kill”, but several related to “make clear”. In 2015, Merriam-Webster lists “to kill” as one sense of the word and “to make clear” is described as archaic usage.”

  117. Richard B says:
    @Sean

    The common thread tying this event together with everything from JFK, The USS Liberty, RFK, The Events of September 11th, 2001, and the many shootings including the most recent, is the pattern I’ve come to refer to as

    The False Flag Waltz

    1. Destroy the Evidence
    2. Control the Narrative
    3. Enforce the Law (on anyone who questions the narrative).

    And a one, two, three, a one, two, three…

  118. Richard B says:
    @Franklin Ryckaert

    “Elie Wiesel’s geysers of blood story indicates that we have to do here with myth rather than with history, just like the Exodus story of the Old Testament. Very dramatic, but never happened.”

    Yep. Exactly.

    Just like the impossible to believe in myth of “White Supremacy.”

    A myth advanced in spite of all of the evidence to the contrary.

    And then there’s the even more impossible to believe in Myth of Innocence. Which says, in effect,

    “We never do anything wrong. Things are done to us.”

  119. @Commentator Mike

    Can you quote the specific article of the Geneva Convention in force at the time

    No article of the Geneva Convention was in force at the time because your best buddy Mr. Stalin was a proud Bolshevik was wasn’t having any of that bourgeoisie Christian claptrap about “humane treatment of prisoners”.

    [MORE]

    “Hitler himself urged Red Cross inspection of [German] camps [holding Soviet prisoners of war]. But an appeal to Stalin for prisoners’ postal services received a reply that clinched the matter: ‘There are no Soviet prisoners of war. The Soviet soldier fights on till death. If he chooses to become a prisoner, he is automatically excluded from the Russian community. We are not interested in a postal service only for Germans’.”

  120. Richard B says:
    @niteranger

    “Most of the Jewish Historical, Biblical, and Archaeological facts are nothing but nonsense. From Exodus to their Homeland is nothing but lies.”

    This is why Schopenhauer said, Nothing about Judaism can be confused with Reason.

    “Of course, they will control history including their murder of Christians in Russia during the Bolshevik Revolution which will be wiped from the records because they have never done anything wrong ever. They are the parasites of humanity and they never give up.”

    I hope you’re wrong about them controling history to the point of being able to completely erase it.

    They certainly are motivated to do that. Because they know full well that if they don’t the last 100 years will go down as The Century Of The Lie, Told By The People Of The Lie.

    But if you’re right, I remain convinced that the best they’ll ever manage is a Pyrrchic Victory.

    Why? Because all of their intelligence, all of their will and energy, all of their focus, has been on infiltration, subversion, betrayal, disintegration and destruction.

    They’ve proven themselves to be very competent in that regard.

    But they’re no damned good at social-management.

    Which is why everything they control today is falling apart.

    The more unmanageable things get, the more powerless they are to stop the destruction they started.

  121. Wally says:
    @Cyrano

    What I said, and it went over you head, was that your alleged ‘minor league’ Babi Yar of 34,000 murdered Jews” was once claimed to be as high as ‘300,000 murdered Jews’, which means it’s was claimed to have greater total than “death camp Sobibor” and it’s alleged “250,000 murdered Jews”.

    Therefore, your attempt to distract by saying it’s no big deal is laughable and at odds with the fake & impossible narrative you try defend.

    Sobibor ‘monument’ supposedly over the remains of 250,000 Jew, actual remains of the alleged 250,000 cannot be shown.

    • Replies: @Cyrano
  122. niceland says:

    Not so fast.
    The contrary evidence to mass killings at Babi-yar? Two areal photos? Isn’t it possible the dates for said photos are off, or the location is different and so on and so forth.

    Another possibility the photos are indeed correctly dated and analyzed but the only thing they prove is the story about the 75 grilles isn’t credible. But that was only one story of many. And people make up all kind of things for various reasons.

    Why are stories about the mass killings so different? A contributing factor could be every group of victims are promoting there side. For the Jews this was part of the Holocaust. And it’s possible some Jews took poetic license to spice up the story and add some elements. This doesn’t mean the massacre didn’t happen.

    Another thing, compare 10 witness accounts to a traffic accident and you get 10 somewhat different stories. Mechanics joke all the time about their customers who’s descriptions about their car failures are way off reality. Me and my friends have had lengthy arguments about details happening in our fishing trips last year.

    Finally, if the victims were indeed burned; where is the ash? In 2010 Mt Eyjafjallajökull erupted and sent ash over mainland Europe disturbing flights on mass scale. Close to the mountain on the south coast of Iceland is the best farmland in the country. For weeks the mountain spewed ash all over it and left several inches of ash covering the county side. The farmers stumbling around with masks and flashlights trying to take car of their animals. Some of them declared the area inhospitable for years. Guess what! The year after it was like nothing happened. I kid you not, the year after was among the best in history for crops, and driving around the country side there were no signs of the massive eruption. Now this was volcanic “ash” that seem to function as fertilizer for fields and crops. I suspect ash from burning humans is even better fertilizer. In warmer climates like Ukraine it wouldn’t surprise me if such ash -spread over ravines or fields would become invisible within months.

  123. @Carolyn Yeager

    Interesting point Carolyn. Jews do seem to hold contradictory ideas with facility.
    Everyone holds contradictory ideas from time to time but when they do gentiles, or at least Euro-gentiles, seem to suffer cognitive dissonance or experience emotional disturbance With Jews it is like water off their backs. Of course NO borders for Europe and America but THE WALL for Israel
    is the big example but I wonder if there aren’t a lot of incidences

    • Replies: @Carolyn Yeager
  124. Wally says:
    @Anonymous

    Like I said:
    Widely available German typewriter & paper, written by anyone to say whatever is desired.
    That’s your best shot?
    Imagine trying that fake in a real / legit court of law where all you have is a typed piece of paper for an alleged immense mass murder of “51,000”. LOL
    No letterhead, no signatures, no provenance, and no alleged human remains.

    Per their alleged & desperate ‘Holocaust by Bullets’ the fraudulent ‘holocaust’ Industry now claims that ca. 2,000,000 Jews were shot by the Einsatzgruppen into huge pits, and the enormous mass graves & human remains are claimed to exist in specifically known places.
    So, is that:
    100 graves of 20,000?
    200 graves of 10,000?
    400 graves of 5,000?
    500 graves of 4,000?
    1000 graves of 2000?
    2000 graves of 1000?

    Imagine in a real / legit court of law where someone claims that millions of people were murdered and dumped into allegedly known mass graves, but then could not produce the claimed mass graves and the alleged contents. They would be laughed out of that court.

  125. @Alfred

    Yeah, 50 was a very lucky year to be born. Anytime in the early postwar boom was hitting the birth lottery for most people. I wouldn’t want to be anyone but an elite’s grandchild now and even some of them may be in trouble.

  126. Mulegino1 says:

    Contemporary Germans are guilty of collective ethno-masochism and self-inculpation, far worse and more despicable than anything realistically impugned to the Third Reich.

    The typical contrite German is like Parsons in Orwell’s “1984” but far more pitiful. Parsons, when confronted about his committing “thought crime” in his sleep, admitted his guilt in the most abject fashion by blubbering, “Of course I’m guilty.” The contemporary kosher German says, “We were guilty.” Too many contemporary Germans do not have the will or the moral courage to defend their calumniated ancestors. They openly wallow in their collective guilt, and are so thought patrolled that they can’t even look at history through a factual or objective lens. To their minds, their guilt is their virtue, and their hatred of their fathers and grandfathers a moral imperative.

    Virtually everything we have been indoctrinated with regarding the Second World War is a bald faced lie, the Babi Yar hoax included. Like Treblinka II, there is nothing there- no physical evidence, no authentic documentary evidence, nothing.

    The Holohoax has come to a dead end. The myth has been exploded in virtually every arena of the objective and empirical. The only thing left to the Church of Shoah is to combat authentic historical research with the typical Talmudic censoriousness and litigiousness. They have nothing left but raw political and financial power. The truth, which they reject, is not on their side.

    • Replies: @Mulegino1
  127. @niceland

    I got turned into a Salamander by a witch…but I got better, so there’s no evidence, but it really happened, trust me!

    • Replies: @niceland
  128. @niceland

    So 10 witnesses give 10 different accounts for how a car breaks, and the mechanic actually checks the car through direct observation and finds out what happened.

    Ok, we have the witness testimonies for Babi Yar – but where then is this mechanic and their direct physical evidence?

    No bodies, no crime.

  129. @Wally

    So, we are supposed to believe something that Nazi Germany says just because it said so? This is naïve as a minimum.
    Here is an unbiased purely criminal investigation of Katyn by a Canadian Grover Furr: https://www.amazon.com/Mystery-Katyn-Massacre-Evidence-Solution/dp/0692134255
    Evidence this guy collected suggests that you are wrong, to put it mildly.

  130. @Hippopotamusdrome

    No article of the Geneva Convention was in force at the time

    That’s legally incorrect, Article 82 of the Geneva convention for treatment of pows (1929) had mandated that signatories were bound by the convention even in conflicts with states that hadn’t signed the convention:
    https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/applic/ihl/ihl.nsf/Article.xsp?action=openDocument&documentId=2D6DEE6CA5235BFFC12563CD0051928C

    Art. 82. The provisions of the present Convention shall be respected by the High Contracting Parties in all circumstances.
    In time of war if one of the belligerents is not a party to the Convention, its provisions shall, nevertheless, remain binding as between the belligerents who are parties thereto.

    The Soviet Union also sent a note to Germany via Sweden in July 1941, offering that it would follow the Hague conventions, if Germany would do the same. Hitler never replied, since he wasn’t interested in being bound by any humanitarian conventions in the war against the Soviet Union.

    As for the article, it’s of course garbage, it’s sad that a man with Ron Unz’s talents wastes them on providing a forum for something like this.

    • Replies: @eah
    , @Beefcake the Mighty
  131. Anon[428] • Disclaimer says:

    The truth about holocaust that is frequently denied the light day for the

  132. @AnonFromTN

    Here is an unbiased purely criminal investigation of Katyn by a Canadian Grover Furr: https://www.amazon.com/Mystery-Katyn-Massacre-Evidence-Solution/dp/0692134255
    Evidence this guy collected suggests that you are wrong, to put it mildly.

    The Russian government has admitted they carried out the massacre at Katyn.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  133. @AnonFromTN

    Here is an unbiased purely criminal investigation of Katyn by a Canadian Grover Furr:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grover_Furr

    Grover Carr Furr III (born April 3, 1944) is an American professor of Medieval English literature at Montclair State University, but is best known for his books and articles on the history of the USSR under Joseph Stalin, particularly the 1930s

    Furr has been described by historians John Earl Haynes and Harvey Klehr as a historical revisionist, who, according to Cathy Young, was “a ‘revisionist’ on a career-long quest to exonerate Stalin”. Furr believes that the Katyn massacre was not committed by the NKVD. He has also claimed that the Soviet Union’s occupation of Poland in 1939 did not constitute an invasion, and that the defendants of the Moscow Trials were guilty

    for a response he gave to a question on Stalin during a university debate: “I have spent many years researching this and similar questions and I have yet to find one crime that Stalin committed.”

    Seems like a Stalinist nutcase. No different in principle from the “Holocaust revisionists” posting here.

    • Agree: utu
    • LOL: eah
    • Replies: @Fox
  134. Fox says:
    @niceland

    A volcano spews the ash into the air and it comes down over a wide area; some of it remains at the volcano. The ash of a fire stays primarily at the site of the fire (think of what remains from a campfire the next morning, and how it looks), as violent upstream gas jets are absent, but this is the cause of the ash of volcanoes being blown up into the atmosphere. If there had been ash at Baby Yar, it would still be where it was produced, if it had been dispersed mechanically, it could be detected by soil analyses.
    Had the ashes been thrown into a river, the sediments downstream would reveal them through chemical analysis.
    If bullets had been used, as claimed, lead, copper, antimony, zinc and the like would be present in ashes and soil, and either metal detection or chemical analysis would show these metals’ presence.
    Has this been done? Has any of this been done anywhere where such killings without the dead bodies are claimed to have happened?
    If not, why not?
    I remember a few years ago a notice in the newspaper, human bones were found somewhere in White Russia along a road in sandy soil, and the first thought being formulated by the news hacks was that these must be skeletons of Jews killed by the nazis, but then it turned out that they stemmed from the Grand Army of Napoleon, of soldiers who had perished on their retreat from Moscow. That was the end of the story for the storytellers.
    This was an indirect hint at the dearth of facts in the holocaust story, and the nervousness about this fact, so that every occasion to finally find such a real fact is jumped on, in sensationalistic fashion.

    • Replies: @niceland
  135. Wally says: • Website
    @AnonFromTN

    – So why shouldn’t verifiable facts from NS Germany be accepted any less than from any other government, country? After all, the lies are about them, not by them.

    – And do pay attention … it wasn’t just the ‘Nazis’ who verified the truth of Soviet responsibility for the Katyn massacres. As I said, have shown, and you ignored, there were many observers from Allied, neutral, and Axis countries who correctly noted Soviet culpability.

    – And of course there was the Soviet admission of guilt in 1989, not exactly “Nazi Germany”.

    – BTW, at the time, the US government helped cover up the Soviet atrocity at Katyn:
    https://archive.is/qrANs

    – And we do note that you cannot refute what I posted about it.
    again: Katyn facts: ‘Amtliches Material zum Massenmord von Katyn’: https://codoh.com/media/files/documents/documents/katyn_v.pdf

    – I suggest you are experiencing a rather serious case of cognitive dissonance.
    But hey, there’s hope for you. Remember, all Revisionists are former Believers like you.

    Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the laughable ‘holocaust’ storyline is the message.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  136. Fox says:
    @German_reader

    Recommended reading:
    Don Heddesheimer, “The First Holocaust”.

  137. Mulegino1 says:
    @Mulegino1

    Sorry, meant to write, “imputed to the Third Reich.”

  138. Wally says:
    @Anonymous

    On Soviet document forgery:

    The Soviet Union’s documented use of document forgeries, Active Measures: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12297
    includes these:

    Holocaust or Hoax? The Arguments, by Jürgen Graf, CHAPTER VIII: http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/hoh/chap8.html

    How the Soviets Manufactured ‘War Crime’ Documents (translation of USSR-54), by C.W.Porter: https://archive.is/k9Ere

    At the time, the US government even helped cover up the Soviet atrocity at Katyn: https://archive.is/qrANs

    Forged Documents at the IMT Nuremberg Trial: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=8635

    Proven Forgeries: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=6134

    Much more info on Soviet document forgeries:
    http://insidethecoldwar.org/sites/default/files/documents/Department%20of%20State%20Note%20Soviet%20Active%20Measures%20Focus%20on%20Forgeries%20April%201983.pdf
    mirror:
    https://web.archive.org/web/20181030204222/http://insidethecoldwar.org/sites/default/files/documents/Department%20of%20State%20Note%20Soviet%20Active%20Measures%20Focus%20on%20Forgeries%20April%201983.pdf

  139. Cyrano says:
    @Wally

    OMG, I can’t believe it. Do you really think that the Armenian genocide was a better event than the Holocaust? What kind of Nazi sympathizer are you? There is a reason why the Holocaust was called the German Open. Because it wasn’t exclusive only for the Jews. It was open to Roma, Slavs, German homosexuals, communists, all kind of victims. While the Armenian genocide was only for Armenians. I can go on like this forever, but this nonsense has to stop here.

  140. @Achilles Wannabe

    You, or someone else, might be interested in reading this: http://www.eliewieseltattoo.com/elie-admits-his-true-stories-never-happened/
    I think it’s pretty interesting, and helpful in understanding how Orthodox Jews think, particularly the Hasidic sect that Wiesel belonged to.

  141. Without commenting on the truth or otherwise of the Babi Yar massacre, it is untrue that the “Final Solution” (Endlösung) of the “Jewish Problem” only began after the Wannsee Conference of January 1942. Even according to the official account, the Wannsee Conference Meyer formalised a process that had begun after the Nazis invaded the USSR and found themselves with more Jews in their power than could be transported to ghettoes or otherwise “stored” until they could be disposed of one way or another, as in Poland. Therefore, mass killings of Jews began almost immediately on the invasion of the USSR. Again, this is not to comment on the veracity of otherwise of the official account; I am pointing out that just because the Wannsee Conference spoke about eliminating the Jews does not mean no mass killings had occurred before then.

    • Replies: @Den Lille Abe
  142. Elie Weasel (apologies to real weasels) was an evil, lying, plagiarising, racist piece of pond scum. Even at the time of reading “Night” first (it was 1988 and I had never heard of him before) I was struck by how artificial the whole story sounded. Open ditches full of flames at Auschwitz in which fresh arrivals were thrown, really? How come no other concentration camp account had mentioned that? How come they had said the Jews were fooled into thinking they were going to be taken care of right until the Zyklon B fell into the fake “showers”? How did Weasel, who had never heard of Josef Mengele, identified him immediately among the SS sorting through the new arrivals? How was it that a child could be hanged but was “too light” to die at the end of a rope? Were the laws of biology and physics temporarily suspended? And so on.

    I did not find it at all surprising that Weasel later turned out to have stolen the parts of his memoirs where he was *not* lying from other inmates, and to have made up the rest. And I was extremely far from being surprised to find he celebrated the 2014 Gaza massacre and demanded more.

  143. @Carolyn Yeager

    I do not belong to those who claim that most (or all) of the Nazi top were Jews. I do think however that some of them could have had Jewish blood (perhaps even unknown to themselves) and that that explaines their phenotype. To me Eichmann was such a case. He did have thin lips though, as you notice, but that could be ascribed to him not being a Volljude but a Mischling.

    Another case I think was ROBERT LEY :

    And then we have the tragic case of REINHARD HEYDRICH, who was haunted by the rumor that he was partly Jewish. His own phenotype did not betray that, but here is a portrait of his parents Maria Amalia Kranz and Richard, Bruno Heydrich :

    https://i2.wp.com/ww2gravestone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/005.jpg?resize=297%2C176&ssl=1

    Both looked Jewish, very very Jewish I should add.

    I never found Goebbels Jewish looking. He could have been Italian though. His family came from Cologne, which was an ancient Roman settlement.

    • Replies: @Carolyn Yeager
  144. SteveH says:
    @niceland

    When a body is cremated there is no ash. All that remains are bone fragments. These are then ground up to give us what we call “ash”. Assuming that these bodies were burned as described, there would be tons of bone fragments at the site (provided of course that there was no industrial grinding operation going on).

    • Replies: @Miggle
  145. Anonymous[355] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    LOL. so they tortured Höss to revise his number down? nice try FPB, you’re really starting to lose your grip on reality. btw, when you use discredited fake stories like testicle crushing at Nuremberg (that wasn’t even related to the Holocaust trials – note how the revisionists are not above using lies or misinformation themselves if it suits their cause, can’t let the truth get in the way of a good meme 😉 ) it only discredits you further.

    • Replies: @Theodore
  146. Anonymous[355] • Disclaimer says:
    @refl

    so if liquidation and special treatment mean something nasty, but its not gassing or shooting, what do they mean? because deportation or transfer to concentration camps didn’t require euphamisms, and less transparent euphamisms for killing like “resettlement in the Eastern Territories” were just obviously not true since no Jew was ever resettled and even the deniers admit that now. so what do you think it refers to if its worse than a labor camp but not as bad as killing? and why do you think Nazis killing their self described racial enemies is a “stretch” ?

    everything revisionists do is a debate tactic (“i dont have to prove anything, you do”) at best, and at worst a lie with fabricated memes that work on less intelligent readers (like wooden doors or auschwitz swimming pools). they have no narrative to defend. just because there’s inconsistencies in accounts doesn’t mean something didn’t happen, in fact its more proof it happened, because real atrocity propaganda stories usually come from 1 source (like a government), and have no inconsistencies. despite all the misinformation (both deliberate and not) surrounding the holocaust the job of historians to confirm data by corroborating it and the idea that this could all have been planted by one or more parties is completely insane.

    they are not real revisionists because they are not offering an alternative account, they are propagandists, there’s a difference. ask yourself why after all these decades they don’t try to explain what happened to millions of Jews deported to Auschwitz, Treblinka, Sobibor, Belzec, and Chelmno if they weren’t killed. or the ones that do try make some weak argument about them being transit camps before this too falls apart and embarrasses their side further, so they just stick to attacking the official story, or just extolling the virtues of Nazi Germany in general.

  147. eah says:
    @German_reader

    As for the article, it’s of course garbage, it’s sad that a man with Ron Unz’s talents wastes them on providing a forum for something like this.

    Ja — lieber NetzDG gleich einschalten und weg damit — Heiko Maas („Ich bin wegen Auschwitz in die Politik gegangen“) lässt sich grüßen.

  148. @Hippopotamusdrome

    You historical falsifiers never give up with your nonsense. I know very well that the USSR didn’t sign the 1929 Geneva Convention but Poland, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, Greece, France, Norway, Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark and all the other allies did. And Germans committed many of their war crimes in Poland and the other occupied countries.

    Regarding aerial bombardment of civilian targets during WWII, that you lot like to carry on about because Germany at times also ended up being on the receiving end, Germany initiated it when the Luftwaffe began bombing cities and the civilian population in Poland in an indiscriminate aerial bombardment campaign, and not Britain or the USSR who weren’t yet in the war.

    You justify German war crimes based on unsupported evidence but condemn allied crimes. The allies were equally justified if we go by your reasoning. What would you recommend they should have done in response to Operation Werwolf by Nazis to resist occupation of Germany just like partisans resisted German occupation? In fact everything the Allies ever did was in response to German aggression. If Germany wanted to save their citizens the troubles they went through they shouldn’t have commenced a war to occupy almost all of Europe disregarding completely numerous small nations that never did Germany any harm nor declared war on Germany. The German cries in pain because he can’t keep stomping his boot on your face for eternity, or at least for a thousand years of his glorious Reich. Spare me your BS.

    • LOL: eah
    • Troll: Beefcake the Mighty
  149. @German_reader

    You have it reversed: it was the Germans who approached the Soviets (twice) about coming to an agreement over the treatment of prisoners, and were rebuffed.

  150. niceland says:
    @Fox

    If there had been ash at Baby Yar, it would still be where it was produced, if it had been dispersed mechanically, it could be detected by soil analyses.
    Had the ashes been thrown into a river, the sediments downstream would reveal them through chemical analysis.
    If bullets had been used, as claimed, lead, copper, antimony, zinc and the like would be present in ashes and soil, and either metal detection or chemical analysis would show these metals’ presence.
    Has this been done? Has any of this been done anywhere where such killings without the dead bodies are claimed to have happened?
    If not, why not?

    For the record I know hardly anything about these events. And therefore I have no opinion about what happened.

    My point from the volcano story is: Fertile ground absorbs volcanic ash amazingly quickly. Even few inches in one year. I am speculating, after the war, years after the massacre it’s possible one wouldn’t see obvious signs of burned human remains even if it was dumped in piles and/or spread on the ground years earlier. Without obvious signs on the ground and without accurate descriptions – finding the remains could be a major operation, depending on the size of the search area.

    It’s cheap to say – no evidence have been found – absent massive surveys. So I second all of your questions.

  151. niceland says:
    @Sharrukin2

    I might be tempted to believe the first part of your story. The second part, regarding you getting better – is a different matter.

  152. eah says:
    @Anonymous

    everything revisionists do is a debate tactic

    You, presumably not a ‘less intelligent reader’ (“LOL”), obtusely (dare I say in a show of rare imbecility) fail to concede, or perhaps even to grasp, a very simple, fundamental concept: allegations of a crime require proof — preferably, as I said earlier, proof in the form of evidence (eg forensic, documentary) that is convincing to the ‘beyond a reasonable doubt’ standard used in modern adversarial court proceedings.

    they don’t try to explain what happened to millions of Jews deported to Auschwitz, Treblinka, Sobibor, Belzec, and Chelmno

    As (patiently) explained before: they don’t have to — they don’t have to explain what happened to “millions” of unspecified Jews — it is up to ‘exterminationists’ to provide convincing evidence that they were murdered in “death camps”.

    extolling the virtues of Nazi Germany in general

    Even if some may do that (?), it is completely irrelevant to the main points here — as such, it is a dumb red herring — more or less an ad hominem.

    Look, the only people embarrassing themselves here are people like you who fail to concede or grasp simple concepts — you in particular are clearly out of your depth intellectually as well as in terms of personal integrity, and really ought to just go away.

    And one more thing: you should never, ever serve on a jury, or otherwise be involved in determining guilt or innocence — you clearly cannot be trusted with that task.

    PS

    To refute your dumb libel of revisionists, here is a tour-de-force of revisionist scholarship:

    The Bone Mill of Lemberg

    It completely demolishes the absurd claim, still found today on ‘Holocaust’ websites, that the apparatus pictured is a ‘bone crushing machine’ operated by members of a ‘Sonderkommando’.

  153. “…They don’t try to explain what happened to millions of Jews deported to Auschwitz, Treblinka, Sobibor, Belzec, and Chelmno

    As (patiently) explained before: they don’t have to — they don’t have to explain what happened to “millions” of unspecified Jews — it is up to ‘exterminationists’ to provide convincing evidence that they were murdered in “death camps”…”

    If a group of people abducts hundreds of thousands of people and if allegations that they murdered them in a certain way (by “gassing” for example) cannot be proved (as the revisionists have demonstrated), then that group still has the obligation to explain what happened to those hundreds of thousands of people if they were not killed, because they were responsible for their abduction. It is here that the revisionists cannot give a satisfying answer. 100,000 Dutch Jews were abducted. 400,000 Hungarian Jews were abducted. If they were not “gassed”, then what happened to them? They were not found anymore after the war.

    • LOL: eah
    • Replies: @Igor Bundy
    , @Vojkan
  154. Miggle says:
    @SteveH

    When a body is cremated there is no ash. All that remains are bone fragments. These are then ground up to give us what we call “ash”.

    Would someone with a fireplace please burn a leg of lamb to ashes and check this.

    • Replies: @SteveH
  155. @Franklin Ryckaert

    Obviously, you are using how people looked in a single photograph to base your claim that they are Jewish or part Jewish. Very dangerous, as you must be aware. You must also be aware that many people call you a Jew because of your consistent defense of Jews and your unyielding animosity toward ‘Nazis.’

    Anyone could have some Jewish blood. The only sure way to tell is by DNA analysis, which today is cheap and easily available. I published mine on my website under “Carolyn’s Ancestry” (no ashkanazi, no negro, no native american dna). How about you? I would publish yours there too, or you could send it to a forum like this one. As long as you send the results just as you receive them from the particular tester, they would be acceptable. Then that issue would be put to rest.

    As to the ‘Nazis’, I’ll just say that the party did a very thorough job of examining every member’s family records which they had to present, going back through great-grandparents (I believe) and if Robert Ley had Jewish ancestry and both Heydrich’s parents were Jewish, they would not have passed. Same with Eichmann. There was quite a fuss about the Luftwaffe’s Erhard Milch (who didn’t look a bit Jewish) and there was a looser standard for the Wehrmacht than for the SS, civilian government or party. Eichmann was in the SS, let’s remember.

  156. What about the 6 million Semitic Palestinians murdered by the jewish invaders in their western ovens?

  157. @Franklin Ryckaert

    That deep since more jews than the census taken in the mid 30’s applied for compensation from the german government even after so many millions had already migrated. How did the number of jews who lived in europe go up so much when most of them had emigrated and the rest exterminated. Heck I saw some were even applying as a holocaust survivor right now. Only jews though.. Others who were affected under german occupation are not eligible.

  158. Vojkan says:
    @Franklin Ryckaert

    According to the Jewish World Almanac, there were 15,315,000 Jews in the world in 1933, and 15,753,000 in 1948. Apart from German efficiency really being a hoax, how do you explain that so many more appeared after so many disappeared? Spontaneous generation ex-nihilo?

  159. @Sharrukin2

    Accused in Stalin’s show trials of late 1930s admitted their guilt. Is that admission proof that they were tried for real crimes? Is Stalin, then, as innocent as a newborn? LOL.

    • Replies: @Sharrukin2
  160. @Wally

    What does “holocaust” have to do with Katyn? Also, as I said before, accused in Stalin’s show trials of late 1930s admitted their guilt. Is that admission proof that they were tried for real crimes? Is Stalin, then, as innocent as a newborn? LOL.

    • Replies: @eah
  161. @AnonFromTN

    Accused in Stalin’s show trials of late 1930s admitted their guilt.

    Gorbachev isn’t Stalin.

  162. Blankaerd says:

    Of the four million jews that were under the control of nazi-Germany during the entirety of WWII, six million perished and five million survived the Holocaust.

    A tragic thing indeed.

  163. eah says:
    @AnonFromTN

    What does “holocaust” have to do with Katyn?

    Nothing directly — but indirectly: Katyn was perpetrated by the Soviets, who lied about it, and continued to lie about it until decades after the war; in fact, these shameless liars even pushed Katyn as a German atrocity at the IMT:

    All the above sources, with access to memoirs, notes and recollections of the non-Russian participants, point out that the Russian insistence upon including the Katyn Massacre charge against the Germans was a source of profound embarrasment to the US, British and French judges and prosecutors, which they agreed to simply to prevent the Russians from walking out, as they appeared likely to do.

    And, since all the alleged “death camps” were captured by them, it was these same liars who supplied much of the “evidence” for the ‘Holocaust’ in the immediate aftermath of WWII, including at the IMT (and other trials) — there is a whole website devoted to documenting the absurd claims and “proof” submitted by the Soviets:

    Carlos Whitlock Porter — MADE IN RUSSIA – THE HOLOCAUST

    Also a video: Made in Russia – The Holocaust – Carlos W Porter

    Some of the stuff really has to be seen to be believed — but it’s all right there, in documents etc submitted by the Soviets after the war.

    You’re one of the dumber people commenting here.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  164. @eah

    Ad hominem is a clear admission that the troll has no arguments. Thanks for admitting the obvious.

    • LOL: eah
    • Replies: @eah
    , @L.K
  165. refl says:
    @Anonymous

    if you really are German or Austrian

    Nach allem, was ich sehe, steht in meinem Pass als Nationalität “Deutsch”, so possibly I know a bit more about German and European affairs then you.
    If you think that I am dreaming about Germany ruling the world, then you better stay in your Hollywood dreamland and no longer bother with IQ- or room temperature related questions.

    People are trying to have a discussion here, that cannot be held in the open due to the circumstance that certain thoughts and certain facts have been outlawed in Western countries. This alone should make you think, but you decide, where you direct your mental capacity.

  166. @Carolyn Yeager

    All well and good, but one cannot ignore the phenotype. Reinhard Heydrich’s parents look very very Jewish. That cannot be denied. His father had even kind of kinky hair, so characteristic of many Jews, who have on average 5 -10% negro blood. Prospective members of the SS had to prove their racial purity, but they could only resort to records of baptism and marriages, which are not fool proof. Jews have been present in Europe for more than 2000 years. Everything could have happened in that time (and that goes both ways : Ashkenazi Jews are said to be for 50% European from their mothers side). If it looks like a duck it is a duck. The idea of Heydrich’s possibly partly Jewishness does not originate from me. It was known to his bosses Canaris and Himmler. The latter kept this knowledge just in case he needed it for blackmail.

    Where is my “consistent defense of Jews”? I consistently criticize them.

    See : https://www.darkmoon.me/…/why-i-am-an-anti-semite-by-franklin

    But I maintain that not all of them are equally guilty of subversion, that they still are human and should be treated as such and that the best solution would be that they all emigrate to Israel.

    The reasons of my criticism of Hitler and NS are already known to you and need no repetition.

    I consider your asking for my DNA as an ultimate attempt at an argumentum ad hominem. What difference would it make for my arguments, even if I were 100% negro or 100% Jewish?

    Finally, here is a picture of Reinhard Heydrich’s younger brother Heinz :

    Seems poor Heinz was not as lucky in the genetic lottery as his elder brother. Look at his kinky hair! He definitely looks like a Mulatto!

    • Replies: @Carolyn Yeager
  167. eah says:
    @AnonFromTN

    no arguments

    Actually, re “arguments”, I did explain to you the (somewhat indirect) relationship between Katyn and the ‘Holocaust’ — only afterward did I say you were “one of the dumber people commenting here” — I guess that escaped you — which more or less reinforces my (admittedly) ad hominem remark about you.

  168. @Anonymous

    “…so if liquidation and special treatment mean something nasty, but its not gassing or shooting, what do they mean..?”

    The only possibility would be working to death. But that leaves the problem what happened to those who couldn’t work.

    The last word has not yet been spoken about this matter.

  169. TGD says:

    As is said, “truth is the first casualty of war” and also its aftermath. To quote Stalin: “A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic.” The Nazi extermination program was a reality and those who go about questioning its veracity by using the courtroom technique of “plausible deniability” are deluding themselves. It doesn’t really matter if 33,000 Jews or 3,000 or however many were exterminated at Babi Yar or if they died en route to Siberia. It happened.

    The West German government was also guilty of this type of numbers game. In the aftermath of the war, the Czechs expelled just about all of the Sudeten Germans (and who can blame the Czechs after suffering 6 years of Nazi degradation). The exact figures are unknown but somewhere between 2 and 3 million. Originally, the number had been put at between 3 and 4 million. And in the process of expulsion, the Czech militias were said to have killed 250,000 of the fleeing Germans. These numbers were promulgated by an official of the West German government, no doubt a graduate of the OSS’s “denazification” program. The new research puts the number killed at between 25,000 and 35,000. They were lined up against a wall and shot. This included children. There exists only 1 recording of the actual killing process and it is heavily redacted. You will have to sign in to You Tube to view the non-redacted portions.

    • Replies: @refl
  170. refl says:
    @Anonymous

    What makes you think that the German perpetrators employed euphemisms? When they – following the uncontroversial mainsteam version of history – decided to anihilate the Jews, they were riding high and not thinking about some future World community, the idea of which would have made them laugh.
    Take “resettlement” for what it means: rooting up people and dumping them somewhere else with all recklessness. Or do you need a distinguishing feature, so it does look less like what Stalin did and what happened to Germans in 1945?

  171. Cowboy [AKA "Kartoffelstampfer"] says:

    Meanwhile, in Bavaria the truth keeps leaking out:

  172. Wally says:
    @Anonymous

    It’s your Jews & their “historians” who claim to know exactly where Jews went. According to them they allegedly went to enormous mass graves and then they say they know the exact locations of these alleged enormous mass graves. Yet they, and obviously you, cannot show us these claimed immense human remains of many alleged millions.

    The claimed ‘6M Jews & 5M others”, 11,000,000, is a bit more than the population of the city of London, England. But you cannot show us the claimed remains to us. LOL

    “After the war, many Jews stayed in Europe and many others scattered throughout the world, settling in nearly sixty countries. So it was that in the late 1990s the teams put in charge by Steven Spielberg of gathering survivors’ testimonies had to go to nearly sixty different countries to record the said testimonies on video”
    https://robertfaurisson.blogspot.com/2009/03/alleged-holocaust-of-jews-is-proving.html

    IOW, Jews went where Jews are.

    – Imagine in a real / legit court of law where someone claimed that millions upon millions of people were murdered and dumped into enormous mass graves of known locations, but then could not produce the claimed mass graves and the alleged contents. They would be laughed out of that court.

    recommended:
    INFLUX OF 3,000,000 JEWS; Tells Newspaper Executives in Germany That Refugees Have Created Grave Problem, JUNE 24, 1946:
    https://forum.codoh.com/download/file.php?id=2160
    https://archive.is/Jw6EM
    – ‘J. Graf and the illogical canard: ‘Where did Jews go then?’ / & more’: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8272
    WJC’s Stephen Wise said 1,250,000 – 1,500,000 Polish Jews homeless in Europe, outside of Poland, & alive after WWII: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10191
    Jews evacuated to USSR during war : https://archive.is/jA9iI
    and:
    more Jews evacuated to USSR during war:
    https://www.jta.org/1944/02/23/archive/german-lauds-russia-for-joining-intergovernmental-committee-for-refugees
    exc.:
    “Since the outbreak of the war hundreds of thousands of Jews from Poland, Rumania and the Baltic countries have been given shelter in the U.S.S.R., and many of them were permitted to pass through Russia en route to the United States and to Palestine.”
    The Deportation of Hungarian Jews from May to July 1944, by Carlo Mattogno:
    https://codoh.com/library/document/357/?lang=en
    Most of them were transferred OUT of labor site Auschwitz, none were gassed, ever.
    and:
    http://juergen-graf.vho.org/articles/hungarian-holocaust-debate.html

    – video: Juergen Graf : The Fate of Unregistered Auschwitz Inmates
    https://www.bitchute.com/video/MaeJJa_0VvE/

  173. Wally says: • Website
    @Anonymous

    said:
    “… all these decades they don’t try to explain what happened to millions of Jews deported to Auschwitz, Treblinka, Sobibor, Belzec, and Chelmno if they weren’t killed …”

    Now insert other foot.
    The facts is that your vile “Holocau$t Industry” says that at your mentioned alleged “pure extermination centers”, the human remains of millions exist, yet they do not.

    Alleged “ash pond” for an alleged 1.1M Jew remains at Auschwitz, however these alleged remains cannot be shown to exist.
    Alleged location of Treblinka mass graves / remains of 900,000 Jews according to Treblinka officials, no alleged remains exist.
    -The Los Angeles Coliseum holds 90,000 people. But, according to Jews, 900,000 Jews were allegedly murdered & buried at Treblinka, which would necessarily have left unimaginable amounts of human remains. In fact, Jews claim those remains still exist. That claim equals 10 times the Los Angeles Coliseum capacity shown here:
    Sobibor ‘monument’ supposedly over the remains of 250,000 Jew, actual remains of the alleged 250,000 cannot be shown.
    photo from ‘Surviving Treblinka’, by Samuel Willenberg.It is captioned: “crane lifting corpses destined for cremation”.
    Does anyone see any “corpses”?

    http://www.codoh.com

  174. I did not specifically investigate the issue of Babi Yar or other places, so I cannot judge the veracity of numbers in those locations. However, I know several Jews who had relatives remaining on Nazi-occupied territories and others evacuated to the parts of the USSR that were not occupied. In all cases not a single person remaining on occupied territories survived, whereas those evacuated lived and produced children.

    • Replies: @Wally
  175. GW says:
    @Alfred

    Google David Rohl and New Chronology. There’s tons of evidence supporting both Hebrew presence in Egypt as well as the conquest of Canaan.

  176. Wally says: • Website
    @AnonFromTN

    said:
    “I did not specifically investigate the issue of Babi Yar or other places, so I cannot judge the veracity of numbers in those locations. However, I know several Jews who had relatives remaining on Nazi-occupied territories and others evacuated to the parts of the USSR that were not occupied. In all cases not a single person remaining on occupied territories survived, whereas those evacuated lived and produced children.”

    – Why should anyone just believe what you say, make up, or were supposedly told by Jews who profit from the scam?

    – After all, you, nor those you supposedly heard such nonsense from, have any proof that they were murdered. None.

    – So now you back track from Babi Yar after being refuted on it. LOL

    Those that faithfully believe in the impossible “Holocau$t” story want / need to believe in it.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  177. @Wally

    Not one of the Jews I know benefited from what they said. You are forgetting that Holocau$t is a purely Western racket, it did not bring any dividends to anyone in the USSR.

    So now you back track from Babi Yar after being refuted on it

    You clearly mix me up with someone else. Coming from a voluntarily blind person, this is not surprising.

    • Replies: @Sharrukin2
    , @Wally
    , @Wally
  178. Theodore says:
    @Anonymous

    so they tortured Höss

    Indeed. Anyway, his testimony is pretty useless

    “Both Rudolf Hoess’s and Eichmann’s testimonies lack credibility.”
    – Roseman, Mark (2002) “The Wannsee Conference and the Final Solution: A Reconsideration”

    Really, which part of his testimony do you believe, and why?

  179. @AnonFromTN

    Not one of the Jews I know benefited from what they said. 

    Poor Pitiful Me is an ancient tactic to garner sympathy and attention. That is why we have so many victims of one thing or another it’s ridiculous.

    People lie, exaggerate and tell stories. Veterans in ww2 who drove a truck suddenly stormed the beaches of Normandy when they get home.

  180. L.K says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Listen, imbecile,

    The Russian government has for a while now admitted that the Soviet NKVD was responsible for the murder of the Poles at Katyn AND other locations.

    It has released the formerly classified documents to Poland and Russian state media has covered the stories.

    Quit embarrassing yourself.

    https://www.rt.com/news/katyn-massacre-documents-russia-poland/

    For decades, the Soviet regime denied responsibility for killing the officers and Polish officials in Katyn and other areas of Russia. However, in 1990, the Itar-Tass news agency published a release announcing the Katyn case as one of the worst crimes of the Stalin era. Declassified documents showed that 22,000 Polish prisoners were killed in a special operation by NKVD police on March 5, 1940.

    In January 2011, the administration of the Russian president announced that the work to declassify the Katyn case documents is still in progress. When the work is completed, all materials are due to be handed over to the Polish side.

    BTW, your Anglo-American allies knew all about it.

    https://www.rt.com/news/katyn-massacre-documents-usa-816/

    The US has long held in its possession verified documentation proving the 1940 Katyn forest massacre of several thousand Polish POWs was committed by the Soviet Union. Why did Washington conceal it: to cover-up for its wartime ally Josef Stalin.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  181. Incitatus says:
    @Carolyn Yeager

    “Anyone could have some Jewish blood.” The only sure way to tell is by DNA analysis, which today is cheap and easily available. I published mine on my website under “Carolyn’s Ancestry” (no ashkanazi, no negro, no native american dna). How about you?

    Are you sure Carolyn? Think labs (staffed by minimum-wage technicians) are legitimate substitutes for genealogical (generation-by- generation) provenance? Don’t think so. Let’s guess. You don’t have a clue about your antecedents beyond your grandparents, thus your DNA Lab shout out.

    In other words, you’re unsure of roots and had to find a lab to tell you who you (presumably) are.

    Pathetic.

    “As to the ‘Nazis’, I’ll just say that the party did a very thorough job of examining every member’s family records which they had to present, going back through great-grandparents (I believe) and if Robert Ley had Jewish ancestry and both Heydrich’s parents were Jewish, they would not have passed.”

    Certainly Ley sang the right tune:

    “We swear we are not going to abandon the struggle until the Last Jew in Europe has been exterminated and is actually dead. It is not enough to isolate the Jewish enemy of mankind – the Jew has got to be exterminated!”
    – Deutsche Arbeitsfront Leiter Robert Ley May 1943 [David Cesarani ‘The Final Solution’ p.224]

    “The fight against the Jews has not ended… it will not have ended until the Jews throughout the world have been exterminated.”
    – Deutsche Arbeitsfront Leiter Robert Ley May 1939 [Manvell & Fraenkel ‘Incomparable Crime’ 1967]

    But, wait, why not ask an indisputably genuine 400-lb Aryan? Reichsmarschall Hermann Göring? What did he think of Arians Himmler and Ley [24 May 1946]:

    “I was much too busy to know about these medical experiments, and if anybody had asked me, I would have disapproved violently. It must have been Himmler who thought up these stupid experiments, although I think he shirked his responsibility by committing suicide. I am not too unhappy about it because I would not particularly enjoy sitting on the same bench with him.

    The same is true of that drunken Robert Ley, who did us a favor by hanging himself before the trial started. He was not going to be any advantage for us defendants when he took the stand.”

    Hermann’s on record (direct quotes) for Plan Oldenburg/Backe’s Hunger Plan (starving 20-30 million Slavic untermenschen from 1941).

    Does Hermann Göring look Jewish? Enquiring minds want to know!

    Why not shout out to a DNA lab?

  182. Skeptikal says:
    @Wally

    http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2017/03/evidence-on-babi-yar-massacre-29-30.html

    So, Wally, STFU with your CODOH obsession.
    You are disgusting.
    I have said it before and I say it again:

    Learn to read German and you will find the “proofs” you say you cannot find.
    Or, just check out some of the hotos in Lawrence Rees, The Holocaust. Making it easy for you.

    • LOL: eah
    • Replies: @Fox
    , @Wally
  183. @Franklin Ryckaert

    Well now, you have just exposed yourself as more of a low-life than I thought. What you posted is OF COURSE not a photo of Heinz Heydrich. Did you put it there as a joke? I have no way of knowing. But it proves you are using photographs dishonestly, on purpose.

    The best I can do to show a photo of the father of Reinhard and Heinz is this:
    His hair is quite curly but not kinky; he looks very German, not at all Jewish. Do you know what a German looks like?

    Here is Heinz with his older brother Reinhard: There is another picture of Heinz as an adult wherein he resembles Reinhard and looks typically German, not at all negoid, but I don’t know how to post photos here.

    But what do you look like, Franklin? Your “argument” for why you defend Jews is weak; therefore some information about your background is in order. I definitely am more suspicious of you than ever before. Your “solution” is always the same: All Jews should move to Israel. But you know and everyone knows that will never happen, so it’s not a serious proposition. Turns out you are just not someone to take seriously.

  184. @L.K

    You mean that Soviet and Russian media never lie? What a revelation!

    These “documents” bear clear signs of late forgery: they do not conform to the rules of those times. Soviets under Stalin, like Germans under Hitler, were the ultimate bureaucrats, and pretty ruthless. Minor variation from the approved form would have you shot in no time. LOL.

    • Replies: @L.K
  185. @Incitatus

    You’re full of –it; that’s the best thing I can say about you.

    Check this out: https://carolynyeager.net/my-ancestry
    This is not guess-work, but based on church records that were very carefully kept in that time and place. And I have plenty more details that what I posted here. All very official.

  186. @Incitatus

    You’re just jealous.

    Check this out: https://carolynyeager.net/my-ancestry
    I have more detailed information than what is posted here. Ask Franklin Rykaert about who looks Jewish – he’s the one who pays so much attention to it. I just pay attention to Germans.

  187. Fox says:
    @Skeptikal

    You won’t find the “proofs” in German either. We all were told about the supposedly detailed and minutely kept and documentation, how good Germans are at it and that they are obsessed with keeping records, and “it’s all there” – yet, we were never shown any of it, and the document center at Arolsen is only accessible for people with proper credentials, that is, anyone with a critical attitude and not coming from a university or the countless “Tolerance Museums” will be shut out.
    A good start would be, to avoid the exegesis of unauthenticated documents, carefully selected and redacted collections of partially real, partially made-up papers, the countless suggestive presentations by “holocaust scholars”, and the influence of mass-psychological suggestive forces, to begin with forensic analyses.
    Wally shows a few pictures of “ash-heaps”, an “ash pond”, and that is the ideal place to take soil samples and analyze them for element ratios as found in the ashes of human tissue and bones.
    That would be irrefutable evidence of the presence as well as to the extent of such ash presence.

  188. Wally says:
    @Skeptikal

    – I quite understand German, thank you. The fact is that you’re utterly desperate, and way beneath me.

    – You mentioned the Committee for Open Debate on the Holocaust / CODOH, which is the most read Revisionist, “holocaust” debunking site in the world.
    And yes, I am “obsessive” about free speech.

    – There are numerous publication & videos which originate from CODOH,such as:
    Holocaust Handbooks, Documentaries, & Videos
    http://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?main_page=1
    – Yawn. We’ve seen your laughable link before , nothing there provides proof for the fake Babi Yar claims. And a reminder, the content of that desperate link has been shredded piece by piece in this thread. We note that you have dodged them. I know, it’s not nice to confuse unstable Zionists with facts.

    – What photos in Lawrence Rees’ debunked book? Show them, we await.
    No doubt they’re as laughable as the one I posted in comment #3 of this thread.
    Oh ouch!

    Discredited shyster & Zionist Lawrence Rees undressed here:
    The Auschwitz “Gas Chamber” Illusion, By Nicholas Kollerstrom:
    https://codoh.com/library/document/684/?lang=en
    and:
    https://forum.codoh.com/search.php?keywords=rees&fid%5B0%5D=2

    Yep, I still own you

  189. Wally says: • Website
    @AnonFromTN

    You’re a blatant Zionist liar.

    Tons of cash is sent to fake “holocaust survivors”, every year, some who were not even in Europe in WWII, and now to their children & grandchildren.
    see:
    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=how+much+money+have+holocaust+survivors+received&t=hd&ia=web

    And then there is fantasy theatre like this:

    There are over 100 “Holocaust” related “museums” in the US alone, all receive US taxpayer funding for an overwhelmingly highly paid Jew staff.

    Facts about one of them, the so called ‘US ‘Holocaust’ Memorial Museum:
    Tax exempt cash taken in by USHMM, aka: ‘Holocau$t’ Theme Park, for fiscal year 2016 which supports huge salaries for Jews only, with most of the remaining money going to Jews & Zionist organizations: $151,826,695.00 : https://www.ushmm.org/m/pdfs/042717-IRS-Form-990-FY16.pdf
    US taxpayers money to the USHMM in the 2017 budget: 56,999,500.00 : https://www.ushmm.org/m/pdfs/20160209-fy17-pres-budget-request.pdf

    There is “that shitty little country”, many billions received every year from US taxpayers, Germany because of he fake “holocaust:
    The True Cost of Parasite Israel, Forced US taxpayers money to Israel goes far beyond the official numbers.: http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-true-cost-of-israel/
    Zionist Billionaires & US taxpayers keep on paying for parasite Israel: http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/israels-money-machine/.
    There’s:
    – Laws which ban free speech on the impossible ‘holocaust’ claims.
    – Israel has representation in the US Govt, but no taxation, while Zionist parasites grab billion upon billions of taxpayer money every year.
    – Federal and state anti-discrimination laws for Jewish people
    – Hate speech prosecutions in favor of Jewish people, and other protected classes
    – Israeli agents not required to register as foreign agents in the US
    – US Federal Courts ignore 1st amendment separation of Judaism and state.
    – Relentless Jewish ‘diversity’ agitprop in TV and Radio and newspapers.
    – Holocaust victim cult propaganda paid for in public schools, colleges, museums, and mass media.
    – 97% of DHS homeland security grants go to Jew groups.

  190. Wally says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Busted again.

    You tried to defend the laughable tales of Babi Yar in your comment #133, Oops.

  191. L.K says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Like I said, you are an imbecile, add to that extreme doses of intellectual dishonesty.

    Also, upthread, you lied about the holohoax being an exclusively “Western” racket or some nonsense of the sort…

    As a matter of fact, the holocaust fraud was manufactured mainly by Soviet propaganda.

    Stalinist atrocity propaganda against Germany served the Soviet regime then, for obvious reasons, and it continues to serve Russian interests today.

    In “The Non-Jewish Stake in the Holocaust Mythology – Why the Continued Success of a Failed Ideology?”, Paul Grubach writes about the various non-Jewish state players pushing this hoax, including the Soviets and also modern Russia. http://www.inconvenienthistory.com/2/1/1919

    … In their brutal war against National Socialist Germany, Stalinist Communism utilized the Holocaust mythology as an important propaganda weapon in order to blacken the image of their hated enemy. On December 19, 1942, a “special statement” was issued by the Soviet Bureau of Information from Moscow, which reported on the alleged extermination of the European Jews. It read in part: “The cannibalistic plan elaborated by Hitler in the beginning of the current year provides for the concentration before the end of 1942 in the east of Europe, chiefly in the territory of Poland, of about 4,000,000 Jews for the purpose of murdering them.”[56]

    There was, however, a certain ambiguity inherent in the Soviet promotion of the Holocaust ideology. Stalinist Communists promoted it because it served their interests in winning the war. Yet, at times they underplayed the claim that the Germans were attempting to exterminate the Jews, because they did not want to give credence to the National Socialist idea that Bolshevism and World Jewry were virtually identical.[57] As we shall see, ambiguity in regard to the Holocaust carries on to this very day in contemporary Russia. ….

    The Soviet Union has been consigned to the dustbin of history, but the promotion of the Holocaust ideology still serves the interests of the current Russian government, as they want to instill a sense of national pride in the Russian masses. Here is a statement of the Russian representative to the United Nations in regard to the 2007 United Nations Resolution condemning “Holocaust denial”: “[T]he Red Army had freed the Auschwitz death camp, one of the largest. The memory of the heroism of the Soviet soldiers and the many millions of victims in his country could never reconcile itself with those of ‘opportunistic political interest’ who sought to distort the significance of that history.”[60] Thus, the Holocaust mythology forms a cornerstone of Russian nationalism, as it casts the Russian people in the role of “heroic liberators” during WWII.

    UN Russian Federation representative Vitaly Churkin hinted that this is what is behind Russia’s support of the 2007 United Nations Resolution condemning “Holocaust denial”: “[M]ember States were bound to include in that condemnation attempts to revise the history of the Second World War and the merits of those who took up arms to fight the Nazis. Any attempt to make heroic the henchmen of fascism must be rejected.”[61]

    In an August 2009, Russian-Israeli statement, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev and his Israeli counterpart, Shimon Peres, jointly declared: “We express our deep indignation at attempts to deny the great contribution that the Russian people and other peoples of the Soviet Union brought to the victory over Nazi Germany and also (attempts) to deny the Holocaust of European Jews…No kind of attempt to revise history can diminish the clear facts.”[62]

    The “Nazi gas chamber” mythology provides the Russian people with an exaggerated self-image as heroic liberators and freedom fighters. After all, so the propaganda line goes, they “saved the world” from the clutches of the “evil Germans” who were “attempting to exterminate” the “inferior races” who opposed them. Take away the Holocaust mythology, and what do we end up with?

    A repudiation of the Holocaust ideology would allow another reappraisal of the crimes, atrocities, genocide and oppression committed by the Stalinist regime. The end result of such historical revisionism would be the demolition of a pillar of Russian patriotic ideology…

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  192. @Carolyn Yeager

    “…Well now, you have just exposed yourself as more of a low-life than I thought. What you posted is OF COURSE not a photo of Heinz Heydrich. Did you put it there as a joke? I have no way of knowing. But it proves you are using photographs dishonestly, on purpose…”

    When you search “Heinz Heydrich” in Google you find the Wikipedia article about him with on the right side 5 photographs. Two of them are of his brother Reinhard, one is the picture of his with his brother Reinhard which you showed. Then there are two pictures of Heinz, one of which is the one I showed to you, which you claim is “OF COURSE” false.

    When you search “Heinz Heydrich” in Google images, you’ll find a lot of pictures. The second in the first row is the one I showed to you. So what are you accusing me of ?

    • Replies: @Franklin Ryckaert
  193. @Franklin Ryckaert

    Addendum : When you search “Heinz Heydrich” in Google images you’ll get a lot of pictures. On the third row from above you’ll find the last (fourth) picture in which the picture you showed and the picture I showed of Heinz are combined with the capture : The ‘other’ Heydrich. Need I say more?

    • Replies: @Carolyn Yeager
  194. SteveH says:
    @Miggle

    When the undertaker gives you the urn with Grandma’s “ashes”, they are not ashes, they are ground-up bones.

  195. @Carolyn Yeager

    About Reinhard Heydrich’s father of whom you say that he “looks very German, not at all Jewish”, here is that picture of his that you showed :

    and compare that with this picture of British Jewish scientist Robert Winston (raised Orthodox Jewish) :

    Don’t you see the striking resemblance? Or does the Jew Robert Winston perhaps also “look very German, not at all Jewish”?

    • LOL: Carolyn Yeager
    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  196. @Franklin Ryckaert

    Franklin,

    While we’re at, it who looks more Jewish, Heinrich Himmler or Julius Rosenberg?

    And then there was Alfred Rosenberg

    According to Miles Mathis Nazi comes from AshkeNAZI and not Nat Soc.

    • Replies: @Franklin Ryckaert
  197. @Commentator Mike

    No, I never found Heinrich Himmler Jewish looking. He had however rather broad cheekbones and somewhat “Chinese eyes”. See this picture :

    I call that picture his “Hirohito look”, because in it he looks like Japanese emperor Hirohito. Compare :

    Alfred Rosenberg didn’t look Jewish at all.

    • Replies: @Carolyn Yeager
  198. @L.K

    Arguing only makes sense when your opponents have an open mind and honestly strive for the truth. Nobody is as blind as someone who refuses to see.

    No person in the USSR, real or pretended Jew, received any material benefits resulting from holocaust claims. In sharp contrast to the societies based on lies.

    Keep up your propaganda. I hope you are paid enough to push your “arguments” with a straight face.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @L.K
  199. Wally says:
    @AnonFromTN

    said:
    “No person in the USSR, real or pretended Jew, received any material benefits resulting from holocaust claims. In sharp contrast to the societies based on lies. ”

    – LOL. We see you dodged my post #194.
    including:
    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=how+much+money+have+holocaust+survivors+received&t=hd&ia=web

    – We see you dodged the what L.K. actually posted in #203.

    said:
    “Keep up your propaganda. I hope you are paid enough to push your “arguments” with a straight face.”

    – Yet it is you who cannot show us the many millions of human remains that Jews like you claim exist in known locations. Many of which are claimed to be in Russia / USSR.

    – It is you and those like you who cannot tell us how the alleged ‘gas chambers’ supposedly worked, even the ‘steam chambers of Treblinka’ that were accepted as fact at Nuremberg.

    Another challenge:
    Give us the names of just three of your ‘survivors / eyewitnesses’. Tell us in their own words what they claim, where, & when.
    We await.

    – Maybe you can also tell us why Jews have been promoting their fake “6,000,000 dead Jews” since at least 1823.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  200. refl says:
    @TGD

    Good, that you bring up that video of the killing of Sudeten Germans. In pointing to this, you might open up a can of worms that you do not imagine.

    Now

    It doesn’t really matter if 33,000 Jews or 3,000 or however many were exterminated at Babi Yar or if they died en route to Siberia. It happened.

    – it does matter! If you take the liberty of only as a suggestion lowering the number of Jews killed by 90% you will loose your reputation if not your job in numerous countries.

    You might have to understand the way this game works: The number of German losses due to violence against them is constantly being diminuished and even the talk of it is near forbidden territory – in Germany. Some time ago there was another article by John Wear on the destruction of Dresden, where the count has been diminuished on and on up to most recent times – by official German authors.
    There can be no discsussion on this in public! The public game to this day and even more every day is: German losses down, German crimes up, Jews being the first and utmost victims. That German official you mention would not have a job today. He could say that, because in his day the Czechs were communists and it fit in to blame them. Still, he had a point, which today you must not even mention – in Germany.
    My own experience has been that I spent quite some time trying to understand what the Soviets did in Eastern Europe, and I came to understand that, whatever happened, they on the whole did things for real reasons. They were no demons. Violence was extreme in the revolution, in the war and in the establishment of their power, but altogether, it was about maintaining their form of order.
    Then, I realized – and I was late to understand this, certainly – that the ongoing vilification of the USSR/ Russia is an awkward geopolitical game and not rooted in reality.
    From there, it is to me absolutely clear, that Germany in WWII acted for real in a real historical, geopolitical context. The nazis were no demons. Violent and criminal, certainly, but you have to learn to cut out the hysterical part, which is the prolongation of war propaganda.
    The Western empire earns its legitimacy to this day from having defeated the Nazis, Israel earns its legitimacy from this! Both are past their sell date, so now reality is coming down hard on them.

    There will be some sobber realization of what really happened, and this realization will include that the grip o the Western Empire will be cut down.

    • Replies: @Carolyn Yeager
  201. @Wally

    Name one resident of the USSR or RF who received any payment for being (or claiming to be) a Jew. Then we can continue this discussion. LOL.

    • Replies: @Wally
  202. @Franklin Ryckaert

    Need I say more?

    Yes, you need say more. I will say more, since you won’t. Believing every photo image you see on the Internet, even wikipedia, without taking into consideration the whole spectrum of what is available to know about the person and their family, leads to harmful mistakes.

    [MORE]

    That image of “Heinz” in the SS uniform does not match other images of him, that are oddly very small, that you can see here: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/158622865 They can’t be made any larger as you can see here:

    So either the photo of the mulatto SS soldier is someone else or is heavily retouched. Heydrichs’ mother came from a long-distinguished German family; both boys (and their sister) must have gotten their blonde hair from their mother, since their father clearly had dark hair as we can see in the photo I provided of a mature Bruno Heydrich, yet in the photo you showed of his parents she is a brunette. Where is a good, more authenticated photo of their mother like the one I showed of the father, which you could have used but didn’t?

    You are cherry-picking any photo you find on the Internet with the aim of slandering your perceived enemies, which is why I called you a low-life. Is Google your God, as we know Wikipedia is?

  203. @Franklin Ryckaert

    [Too much off-topic crankiness.]

  204. @refl

    You are still a brain-washed postwar German even though you think you’ve “seen the light.” You care about the German people, of which you are one, but you hate the Nazis as much as the Russians do. The Soviet Communists “did things for real reasons,” not because they were “violent and criminal” like “the Nazis certainly were.”

    “The nazis were no demons” but were “certainly violent and criminal.” You keep repeating that without giving any evidence for why it is true. You don’t mention the various purges by Stalin, murdering millions of Russians simply to feel himself safe. There is no comparison as to who were the real criminals.

    I have been reading your comments beyond just this particular chain, and they don’t make sense to me. Possibly because your English is not as good as you think it is? Or is it your reasoning? No offense meant.

    • Replies: @Saggy
  205. L.K says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Arguing only makes sense when your opponents have an open mind and honestly strive for the truth.

    You have just described qualities you do NOT possess.

    You are a cheap and ignorant propagandist accusing others of your own tendencies, aka projection.

    Let me tell ya something; there is no money to be made in holocaust revisionism, but there are a lot of risks.

    Given the nonsense you write, you must “believe” Ron Unz himself is a well paid propagandist pushing revisionism…

    http://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/
    http://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-when-stalin-almost-conquered-europe/
    http://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-secrets-of-military-intelligence/

  206. L.K says:

    The Babi Yar hoax does provide us with a good anatomy of Soviet atrocity propaganda.
    http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/BabiYar/Nikiforuk.html
    What Happened at Babi Yar?
    Fact vs. Myth
    BY Michael Nikiforuk

    [MORE]

    THE MEMORY of the “massacre” of Jews at Babi Yar is painful to all politicians. But evidence shows it never happened. Aerial reconnaissance photos taken before and during World War II show mass graves of victims of the Soviet Cheka/NKVD, but an absence of Jewish mass burials.

    What if anything, happened at a place called Babi Yar (Old Woman’s Ravine) near Kiev, Ukraine – September 29, 1941? According to official histories and inscriptions on monuments, 250,000 people, mostly Jews, were killed by the Nazis there. But if thousands of Kievan Jews (those not evacuated by the Soviets) were killed in September of 1941 by the Germans, they were not murdered or buried at Babi Yar. This fact was revealed in aerial reconnaissance photos discovered in the U.S. National Archives in Washington, DC.
    In February 1997 a Ukrainian court threw out a case brought by Ukrainian Jews against V. Kretytnychy of the St. Andrew Society and E. Musiyenko, editor of the Kiev Evening News (Vechirnyi Kyiv), who challenged the official Babi Yar story. Encouraged by the court decision, on March 19, 1997 the Kiev Evening News published a four-page story setting the record straight for the first time since the Allies condemned the phony “atrocity” during World War II.

    What is now coming to the fore is incontrovertible proof that no massacre took place at Babi Yar during the German occupation of Kiev; that the ravine was not used as a mass grave for Jews killed by the Germans. But it was a burial field between 1922-1935 for the victims of the Cheka/NKVD.
    For decades, aerial photography has been recognized as an indispensable archaeological tool. With sophisticated equipment, ruins of ancient cities and cemeteries that lie under cultivated fields, forgotten for decades or centuries, have been discovered. Even submerged Hellenic ports have been discovered by aerial photography.

    In 1991, wartime aerial photographs from the National Archives in Washington, DC were used as the ultimate guidance in exhumations of hundreds of Polish officers and intellectuals massacred in 1939-40 by the Soviet NKVD in the vicinity of Kharkiv. Aerial photos of Kiev’s distant suburbs, including Bykivnia, Bilhorodka and Darnista, revealed mass graves of victims of the 1930’s Stalinist terror-famine. It is therefore logical to assume that aerial photos of a ravine would reveal evidence of recent mass graves or of a major topographic disturbance.

    The US National Archives in Washington contain about 1,100,000 wartime aerial photos, among them some 600 of Kiev, including Babi Yar. They were taken during 20 or more flights over the area. The first photos, taken at 12:23 pm on May 17, 1939, reveal such details as cars and even the shadows of the lamp posts on the streets of Kiev. Every large bush and small tree is visible on the slopes and at the bottom of the Babi Yar ravine. The last aerial photo coverage of Kiev (and Babi Yar) took place on June 18, 1944, about nine months after the city’s “liberation” by the Red Army.

    This series of reconnaissance photos demonstrates that the flora and the ground cover of the ravine remained undisturbed throughout the two years of German occupation. When the early and late photos are compared, it is obvious that the scattered trees grew and became slightly larger. No evidence of human or large animal activity in the ravine can be discerned on the many aerial photos of Babi Yar taken repeatedly in different seasons of the years 1939-1944. […]

  207. Wally says:
    @AnonFromTN

    “Name one resident of the USSR or RF who received any payment for being (or claiming to be) a Jew. Then we can continue this discussion.”

    Here you go, dumsky, lot’s more than just “one”. You can even see them picking up their free, unearned money.

    RUSSIA: Russian “Survivors of the Holocaust” get Compensation

    Russian Holocaust survivors receive payments from Swiss fund: https://www.jta.org/1999/08/02/default/russian-holocaust-survivors-receive-payments-from-swiss-fund

    Jews from Russia even come the US where they get even more free, unearned cash:
    The Other Holocaust Survivors, Montgomery County is home to hundreds of Russian Jews
    https://bethesdamagazine.com/bethesda-magazine/january-february-2016/the-other-holocaust-survivors/
    – much more:
    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=russia+holocaust+survivors+payments&t=hi&ia=web
    Ouch!
    You also continue to dodge my challenges to you. We know why.

    • Agree: Theodore
    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  208. Saggy says: • Website
    @Carolyn Yeager

    The nazis were no demons” but were “certainly violent and criminal.”

    If you’re going to claim that the Nazis were not ‘violent and criminal’, why not provide some evidence. I’ll help you out … (this is one of my more or less canned replies … )

    Unlike the US at Abu Graib, the Nazis aggressively investigated crime by camp guards and administration, i.e. the SS. From wiki – Georg Konrad Morgen was in charge of an investigative team that prosecuted many high ranking SS officials, including two camp commandants.

    However, in mid-1943, Himmler recalled Morgen to investigate and prosecute corruption in the concentration camp system, which had become rampant, as reflected in Himmler’s notorious Posen speeches.

    Morgen’s investigations began with Karl-Otto Koch, the commandant of Buchenwald and Majdanek, Koch’s wife Ilse Koch, sadistic SS officer Martin Sommer, and Buchenwald’s camp doctor Waldemar Hoven. Charges included theft, military insubordination, and murder.

    Koch was tried, convicted, and executed shortly before the end of the war. In post-war testimony, Morgen claimed the stories of Frau Koch’s fetish with lampshades made of human skin were merely a legend: he had personally searched Koch’s home near Buchenwald and found nothing of the kind. He later told the American journalist John Toland that he persisted in denying the story while being threatened with beatings and while actually being beaten twice by his Allied interrogators after the war.

    Part of Morgen’s testimony at Nuremberg, The Avalon Project : Nuremberg Trial Proceedings Vol. 20

    [MORE]

    HERR PELCKMANN: Why was a special power of attorney from the Reichsfuehrer necessary?

    MORGEN: For the guards of the concentration camps, the SS and Police courts were competent; that is, in each case the local court in whose district the concentration camp was located. For that reason, because of the limited jurisdiction of its judge, the court was not able to act outside its own district. In these investigations and their extensive ramifications it was important to be able to work in various districts. Besides that, it was necessary to use specialists in criminal investigation, in other words, the Criminal Police. The Criminal Police however could not carry on any investigation directly with the troops, and only by combining juridical and Criminal Police activities was it possible to clear this up, and for this purpose I was given this special power of attorney by the Reichsfuehrer.

    HERR PELCKMANN: Now, how extensive did these investigations become? You can be brief because the witness Reinecke answered this point in part.

    488

    7 Aug. 46

    MORGEN: I investigated Weimar-Buchenwald, Lublin, Auschwitz, Sachsenhausen, Oranienburg, Hertogenbosch, Krakow; Plaszow, Warsaw, and the Concentration Camp Dachau. And others were investigated after my time.

    HERR PELCKMANN: How many cases did you investigate? How many sentences were passed? How many death sentences?

    MORGEN: I investigated about 800 cases, that is, about 800 documents, and one document would affect several cases. About 200 were tried during my activity. Five concentration camp commanders were arrested by me personally. Two were shot after being tried.

    HERR PELCKMANN: You had them shot?

    MORGEN: Yes. Apart from the commanders, there were numerous other death sentences against Fuehrer and Unterfuehrer.

    HERR PELCKMANN: Did you have any opportunity of gaining personal insight into the conditions in concentration camps?

    MORGEN: Yes, because I had authority to visit concentration camps. Only a very few persons had this permission. Before beginning an investigation, I examined the concentration camp in question in all its details very closely, inspecting especially those arrangements which seemed particularly important to me. I visited them repeatedly and without notice. I was working mostly in Buchenwald itself for 8 months and have lived there. I was in Dachau for one or two months.

    HERR PELCKMANN: Since so many visitors to concentration camps say they were deceived, do you consider it possible that you, too, were a victim of such deceit?

    MORGEN: I have just pointed out that I was not a mere visitor to a concentration camp but I had settled down there for a long residence, I might almost say I established myself there. It is almost impossible to be deceived for such a long time. In addition, the commissions from the Reich Criminal Police Department worked under my instructions, and I placed them directly in the concentration camps themselves. I do not mean to say that in spite of these very intensive efforts I was able to learn of all the crimes, but I believe that there was no deception in regard to what I did learn.

    See also Another wrench in the Holocaust Myth, SS judge Konrad Morgen

    Morgen worked as both investigator and judge prosecuting officials and guards in the concentration camps for illegal activities. In the Buchenwald camp, four people were arrested, including the former camp commander’s wife, Ilse Koch. The main issue was that 3-4 prisoners had been killed some years earlier.

    • Replies: @Carolyn Yeager
  209. @Wally

    Your link: https://www.jta.org/1999/08/02/default/russian-holocaust-survivors-receive-payments-from-swiss-fund
    Date: August 2, 1999 9:00 am

    From that link:
    “This is the first money most Russian survivors have received for their World War II-era suffering.”

    So, this site says that no one in the USSR received anything for these claims, true or spurious. Not in the first 8 years of RF, either, even if we take this “news” at face value.

    The source is Jewish Telegraphic Agency. I am sure that you, of all people, would find this source 100% honest, absolutely above reproach. LOL.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Wally
  210. Wally says: • Website
    @AnonFromTN

    Of course now you change your story yet again.LOL.
    – You ask for ONE, I give you many.
    – And you shot yourself in the foot again, by lying when you said:
    “this site says that no one in the USSR received anything for these claims”.
    But an actual quote from the site says:
    “This is the first money most Russian survivors have received for their World War II-era suffering.”
    That’s a lot more than your “one” or your lie of “no one.
    Ouch again. LOL

    If Jews like you were smarter they would have conjured up a better, more believable story than their impossibly fake & stupid ‘6,000,000 & gas chambers’.

    to repeat:

    – Yet it is you who cannot show us the many millions of human remains that Jews like you claim exist in known locations. Many of which are claimed to be in Russia / USSR.

    – It is you and those like you who cannot tell us how the alleged ‘gas chambers’ supposedly worked, even the ‘steam chambers of Treblinka’ that were accepted as fact at Nuremberg.

    – Give us the names of just three of your ‘survivors / eyewitnesses’. Tell us in their own words what they claim, where, & when.
    We await.

    – Maybe you can also tell us why Jews have been promoting their fake “6,000,000 dead Jews” since at least 1823.

  211. Wally says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Speaking of your laughable “survivors”, here’s what they typically say, an example of their lies … and you believe them. LOL

    “Mother and I used to get up at four in the morning [at Belsen], to avoid the queues of people waiting to use the shower block about and hour later. We undressed and showered our bodies with ice-cold water. The only soap we had was a barrel of honey-coloured liquid soap, manufactured out of human flesh from the bodies of people shot by the SS on the transports. Many times we wondered: ‘Could this be my brother, my sister, another relation?

    – Gena Turgel nee Goldfinger, I Light a Candle, London: Grafton, 1987, p. 102.

    Filip Mueller, whose laughable beststeller “Sonderbehandlung” Raul Hilberg quotes no less than 20 times as a source in his standard work about the “Holocaust” – described how he ate cake in a cyanide-saturated gas chamber

    Former inmate, Moshe Peer, recalled a miraculous escape from death as an eleven-year-old in the camp. In a 1993 interview with a Canadian newspaper, the French-born Peer claimed that he “was sent to the camp gas chamber at least six times…maybe children resist better, I don’t know.” Gazette, Montreal, Canada, August 5, 1993

    ‘eyewitness’ Arnold Friedman’s stated that he (and four others at the same time) ‘survived’ by breathing through a keyhole in the ‘gas chamber’ door at FLOSSENBERG.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  212. @Saggy

    Thank you, Saggy. Good evidence that the SS was not a criminal organization, but maintained standards and disapproved of violence. Interesting that Judge Morgan claims to have been beaten by his Allied interrogators when he wouldn’t change his story to what they preferred.

  213. @Kassandra

    Friend of mine was Eva Braun’s hairstylist and she sometimes cut the fuhrer’s hair as well and she told me that Adolf was quite the ladies man and could tell a joke like no one else. Loads of fun at parties, those two.

    Anyone can tell a story on the internet. It’s so easy to lie. There’s no verification of anything, certainly no more than the forensics done to verify Babi Yar in the first place.

  214. @animalogic

    Actually, I would think the opposite of what they claimed in the story would be true. The lead core would certainly melt at relatively low temps but would still be present. However, the copper jackets left behind, hollowed by the intensity of the fire, would be left intact and would tell the entire story by themselves.

    When no one verifies, lies proliferate.

  215. @Wally

    I thought you are a serious person who deserves an answer. My bad. Won’t happen again.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Wally
  216. Bert says:
    @Franklin Ryckaert

    Blood clots. Blood rots. Blood isn’t liquid within a corpse for longer than 40 hours. Wiesel jumped the shark, with all the implications thereof regarding personal credibility.

  217. Wally says:
    @AnonFromTN

    That’s it? That’s the best you can do?
    That’s your response after dodging my numerous challenges? LOL

    Here’s a few more of the endless examples of nonsense from your “survivors / eyewitnesses”:

    [MORE]

    “survivor / eyewitness” Irene Zisblatt:

    She claimed that to hide her diamonds while at Auschwitz, she would swallow them and later defecate them out. She said she repeated that procedure every day one and a half years.

    “Survivor / eyewitness” Yankel Wiernik claimed:

    1200 people fit into a 7 X 7 m gas chamber, bodies of women were used for kindling, bodies burned on their own once lit, he saw a naked Jewish girl jump a 3m (9 ft.) high fence & shoot two guards, that 900,000 Jews were gassed..buried..exhumed..cremated & all traces disappeared, a Russian diesel tank engine was used for gassings.
    Wiernik also claimed he saw a naked Jewish girl leap over a three-meter (9 ft.) high barbed wire fence, wrench the rifle out of the hands of a pursuing guard, shoot two other guards before she was overpowered.

    in court, 3/46, “survivor / eyewitness” Charles Bendel said:

    groups of 1000 Jews where killed with Zyklon-B in a room measuring 10 meters long by 4 meters wide by 1.6 meters high. When asked, how 1000 people can possibly fit in to a room of 64 square meters, he answered, with ‘the German method’.

    Treblinka “survivor / eyewitness” Samuel Rajzman testified that:

    during the time he was in Treblinka, Jews were “suffocated to death” there with a machine that pumped air out of death chambers. {Rajzman text in: Yuri Suhl, ed., They Fought Back (New York: 1967), p. 130.}

    “survivor / eyewitness” R. Böck:

    “There was a blue haze after gassing with hydrocyanic acid” (which is colorless) – R. Böck, Frankfurt Public Prosecutor’s Office, Ref. 4 Js 444/59, pp. 6881f.

    a truthful statement for a change by Communist Jew, Bruno Baum, himself a member of the illegal ‘partisans’ / terrorists, boasted after the war:

    “The entire propaganda which started abroad, was made by us with the help of our Polish mates.” – Bruno Baum, »Wir funken aus der Hölle« in Deutsche Volkszeitung – Zentralorgan der KPD, Berlin 31.7.1945.; cf. B. Baum

  218. @Anonymous

    And what about the Unicorn holocaust?

    … I draw from the fact that I have no documented evidence to suggest that there was a single Unicorn from Kiev resettled in Unicorn land to substantiate my claim that every single Unicorn was exterminated by the Nazi’s.

    Q.E.D.

    It then follows:
    that anyone wearing a Unicorn hat has a land claim in Unicorn land (two point, oh) and has a God given right to exterminate any of the local residents (not wearing a Unicorn hat) …. if they don’t have the decency to just fuck off to somewhere else.

    It’s perfectly reasonable,

  219. Logan says:
    @Anonymous

    “notice how he calls the destruction of the headquarters of a foreign occupier “terrorism”

    Well, I’ve repeatedly seen attacks on US occupation troops in Iraq of Afghanistan called terrorism. To be fair, those making such attacks have probably committed other attacks that actually were terrorism, so it’s not entirely inaccurate to call them terrorists.

    But attacking occupiers is not itself terrorism.

  220. Wally says: • Website
    @AnonFromTN

    Now here’s some more very serious business, the Nuremberg Show Trials:

    U.S. Senator Robert A. Taft:

    About this whole judgment there is the spirit of vengeance, and vengeance is seldom justice. The hanging of the eleven men convicted will be a blot on the American record which we will long regret. In these trials we have accepted the Russian idea of the purpose of trials — government policy and not justice — with little relation to Anglo-Saxon heritage. By clothing policy in the forms of legal procedure, we may discredit the whole idea of justice in Europe for years to come.
    – Delivered at Kenyon College, Ohio, Oct. 5, 1946. Vital Speeches of the Day, Nov. 1, 1946, p. 47.

    S. Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas:

    I thought at the time and still think that the Nuremberg trials were unprincipled. Law was created ex post facto to suit the passion and clamor of the time.
    – H. K. Thompson and H. Strutz, eds., Dönitz at Nuremberg: A Reappraisal (IHR, 1983), p. 196.

    Edgar N. Eisenhower, American Attorney, brother of President Dwight D. Eisenhower:

    I think the Nuremberg trials are a black page in the history of the world…I discussed the legality of these trials with some of the lawyers and some of the judges who participated therein. They did not attempt to justify their action on any legal ground, but rested their position on the fact that in their opinion, the parties convicted were guilty…This action is contrary to the fundamental laws under which this country has lived for many hundreds of years, and I think cannot be justified by any line of reasoning. I think the Israeli trial of Adolf Eichmann is exactly in the same category as the Nuremberg trials. As a lawyer, it has always been my view that a crime must be defined before you can be guilty of committing it. That has not occurred in either of the trials I refer to herein.
    – Thompson, and Strutz ed., p.168

    George B. Fowler, Ph.D., Professor of History, University of Pittsburgh:

    I shall always have doubts about the whole ‘War Crimes Trials,’ both in Germany and in Japan. I am unable to understand how one can try an officer for obeying orders or for doing his duty. It makes no difference what flag he fights under. To me, the War Crimes Trials of Nuremberg and elsewhere are one illustration of the greatest danger of our times: mass pressure based largely on little information and perilously close to mass hysteria.
    – Thompson, and Strutz ed., p. 111

    Rear Admiral, U.S.N. Dan V. Gallery:

    This kangaroo court at Nuremburg was officially known as the ‘International Military Tribunal.’ That name is a libel on the military profession. The tribunal was not a military one in any sense. The only military men among the judges were the Russians…. At Nuremberg, mankind and our present civilization were on trial, with men whose own hands were bloody sitting on the judges’ seats. One of the judges came from the country which committed the Katyn Forest massacre and produced an array of witnesses to swear at Nuremberg that the Germans had done it.
    – Thompson, and Strutz ed., pp.XXI-XXII

    Cheers.

  221. Bolteric says:

    I stumbled across an event that caught my interest. I was looking at the history of the city of Strasbourg, now in France. It of course had the obligatory maligning of anything German. It mentioned that something called the Jewish Skeleton Collection was operational during the war. I looked at the references and they typically cited one German and in one case Emily Bazelon, the granddaughter of the DC Court justice, who Ron Unz tore apart in the recent article on the Chicago mob’s heist of Japanese-Californian property.

    I would presume that this hyperbole by the usual Wikipedia nuts, but generally looking for more info on this and related to the Nuremberg medical trials.

    • Replies: @eah
  222. eah says:
    @Bolteric

    Jewish Skeleton Collection

    The main person usually associated with this is August Hirt — I do not know much about it — this blog has a number of entries about Hirt and his work.

    • Replies: @Wally
  223. Wally says:
    @eah

    “August Hirt / skeleton collection”? LOL
    That typical & laughable “holocaust” nonsense shot down repeatedly with ease here:

    What is the reality behind the Ahnenerbe’s “Jewish Skeleton Collection”?: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=112850

    Holocaust imposter, Joseph Hirt, lied about Auschwitz imprisonment and escape, historian says: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10431

    Faurisson’s Three Letters to Le Monde (1978-1979)
    By Robert Faurisson
    https://codoh.com/library/document/2910/?lang=en

    The Jewish Skeleton Museum: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12126

    Astonishing find RE: phosgene gassings in revisionism: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11665

    • Replies: @eah
  224. eah says:
    @Wally

    I’ve told you before about your über-obnoxious tone, aber du bist offensichtlich nicht lernfähig — und natürlich hat Joseph Hirt absolut nichts mit August Hirt sogar eine ‘Skeletsammlung’ zu tun — ?

    Your first link doesn’t work.

    • Replies: @Theodore
  225. Theodore says:
    @eah

    First link has an extra 0 at the end

    What is the reality behind the Ahnenerbe’s “Jewish Skeleton Collection”?: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11285

Current Commenter
says:

Leave a Reply - Comments on articles more than two weeks old will be judged much more strictly on quality and tone


 Remember My InformationWhy?
 Email Replies to my Comment
Submitted comments become the property of The Unz Review and may be republished elsewhere at the sole discretion of the latter
Subscribe to This Comment Thread via RSS Subscribe to All John Wear Comments via RSS
PastClassics
Which superpower is more threatened by its “extractive elites”?
What Was John McCain's True Wartime Record in Vietnam?
Are elite university admissions based on meritocracy and diversity as claimed?