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Another Moral Panic About Race
James Watson Again Excoriated for His Belief in a Genetic Basis for Race Differences in IQ
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Nobel laureate Dr. James D. Watson, Chancellor, Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory

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Editor’s note: I have posted two articles on the controversies surrounding Nicholas Wade and James Watson, both from 2014. Watson is in the news once again because he reaffirmed his belief in the genetic basis of Black-White IQ differences, resulting (of course) in a scathing article in the New York Times by one Amy Harmon. The article notes that despite apologizing “publicly” and “unreservedly,” Watson was forced to retire from his research position, resulting in a drastic loss of income. Since then, he “has been largely absent from the public eye. His speaking invitations evaporated. In 2014, he became the first living Nobelist to sell his medal, citing a depleted income from having been designated a “nonperson.’’

The latest NYTimes moral panic about Watson includes a comment that Watson’s views have been “supported” by “white supremacists,” with links to someone whose anonymous Twitter handle is Neo(with a grand total of 820 followers — Ms Harmon was clearly at great pains to find such a person ) and to videoblogger Stephan Molyneux, respectively. Here’s a recent tweet by Molyneux that reflects a race realist view on IQ but clearly denies that these differences have anything to do with “White supremacy.” Just the opposite.

The problem with ruling out a genetic basis for race differences is that, as reflected in Molyneux’s tweet, the result is to invoke environmental explanations of Black and Latino academic failure, and of course this leads the hegemonic academic and media left to blame White “racism” for any failure of Blacks or Latinos — despite a complete lack of scientific evidence and while ignoring the success of some non-White minorities in historically White societies. If Whites are racist, surely they would have prevented upward mobility by Jews and East Asians. As noted below in a section on J. Philippe Rushton and Arthur Jensen, environmental explanations have a long history of failure to explain the difference.

Once again, we see the power of the left to censor inconvenient truths. James Watson must remain a non-person, his reputation forever destroyed:

Eric Lander, the director of the Broad Institute of M.I.T. and Harvard, elicited an outcry last spring with a toast he made to Dr. Watson’s involvement in the early days of the Human Genome Project. Dr. Lander quickly apologized.

“I reject his views as despicable,” Dr. Lander wrote to Broad scientists. “They have no place in science, which must welcome everyone. I was wrong to toast, and I’m sorry.’’

Science must welcome everyone? There is zero evidence that academic science has excluded people because of their race. On the other hand, Asians, especially East Asians, are ubiquitous in research in the hard sciences. No one is being un-welcomed because of their race. Blacks who can perform at the level needed to be a research scientist (probably IQ>140) would be welcomed with open arms.

Here I post two previous comments, both dealing with the controversy surrounding James Watson. However, because Nicolas Wade’s book A Troublesome Inheritance came out around the same time as the Watson controversy, they also deal with some of the controversy surrounding Wade.

Policing Race: Nicholas Wade and James Watson
November 29, 2014

Jared Taylor has a great interview of Nicholas Wade on his book, A Troublesome Inheritance.

JARED TAYLOR: Would it not be correct to say that . . . when it comes to the biological basis of population differences — or even individual differences — that the Western mind is relatively closed? . . .

NICHOLAS WADE: “I think this is a parochial problem of the academic left . . . They’re very fearful of each other . . . So if you step out of line just a little — particularly on this subject — if you write anything that doesn’t accord with the current dogma about the nature of race — you’ll be branded as a ‘scientific racist’ . . . you’ll be set upon as a racist and you’re career will be destroyed.

“So the whole of the academic left is sort of hoist on its own petard. It’s sort of captured by this monster it’s created . . . which cannot brook criticism or dissenting thought. It’s very sad . . . It has to change some day . . . the sooner the better.”

Well, it certainly hasn’t changed yet. Just recently James Watson was reduced to selling his Nobel Prize medal because he has been ostracized for publicly airing his views on race and IQ (“James Watson selling Nobel prize ‘because no-one wants to admit I exist‘”).

Mr Watson said his income had plummeted following his controversial remarks in 2007, which forced him to retire from the Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory on Long Island, New York. He still holds the position of chancellor emeritus there.

“Because I was an ‘unperson’ I was fired from the boards of companies, so I have no income, apart from my academic income,” he said.

Sadly, Watson appears to apologize for his gaffe and wants to be welcomed back to public life and the academic lecture circuit, saying it was all a misunderstanding. It must be really difficult to go from being an academic superstar to a non-person overnight.

Mr Watson – who insisted he was “not a racist in a conventional way” – said it had been “stupid” of him to not realise that his comments on the intelligence of African people would end up in an article.

“I apologise . . . [the journalist] somehow wrote that I worried about the people in Africa because of their low IQ – and you’re not supposed to say that.”

In 2007, the Sunday Times ran an interview with Dr Watson in which he said he was “inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa” because “all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours – whereas all the testing says not really”.

He told the newspaper people wanted to believe that everyone was born with equal intelligence but that those “who have to deal with black employees find this not true”.

Mr Watson said he hoped the publicity surrounding the sale of the medal would provide an opportunity for him to “re-enter public life”. Since the furore in 2007 he has not delivered any public lectures.

“I’ve had a unique life that’s allowed me to do things. I was set back. It was stupid on my part. All you can do is nothing, except hope that people actually know what you are,” he said.

ORDER IT NOW

The race and IQ issue is non-negotiable for our hostile elites. Frank discussion of race, IQ and other psychological traits related to success in the contemporary world be disastrous for the entire multicultural project and the displacement of Whites and their culture. Imagine discussions of Ferguson in the mainstream media if race realism was presented as a legitimate point of view. And imagine how discussion of immigration would change if the discussion included the ethnic interests of Whites.

Perhaps Prof. Watson’s apology will be enough to get him back on the academic gravy train, but I doubt it. Some things just can’t be forgiven or forgotten.

Political correctness in reviews of Nicholas Wade’s “A Troublesome Inheritance”
May 26, 2014

There are a wide range of reviews of Nicholas Wade’s A Troublesome Inheritance, but some difficult implications are downplayed.

1. With few exceptions (e.g., Jared Taylor, “Nicholas Wade takes on the regime” and Bo and Ben Winegard, “Darwin’s dual with Descartes“), a common tactic is to acknowledge that race exists but then claim that evidence for a genetic basis for race differences is completely speculative. Despite the central importance of race differences, Wade deemphasizes IQ research where most of the research has centered.

A good example of this tendency is evolutionary biologist Jerry Coyne who agrees with Wade that races do exist and claims that “except for politically motivated denialists,” we have known that for a long time. (Actually, the idea that race is real is big news to pretty much the entire faculty in the social sciences and the humanities these days, but of course it is not at all far-fetched to label them “politically motivated denialists.”)

So, if for no other reason, Wade’s book is most welcome. However the next move is to claim that there is absolutely no evidence for genetic differences between races. Coyne:

Wade’s main thesis, and where the book goes wrong, is to insist that differences between human societies, including differences that arose in the last few centuries, are based on genetic differences—produced by natural selection— in the behavior of individuals within those societies. In other words, societal differences largely reflect their differential evolution.

For this Wade offers virtually no evidence, because there is none. We know virtually nothing about the genetic differences (if there are any) in cognition and behavior between human populations.

This is simply false. J. Philippe Rushton and Arthur Jensen list ten categories of evidence based on their previous reviews of the literature:

The worldwide distribution of test scores; the g factor of mental ability; heritability differences; brain size differences; trans-racial adoption studies; racial admixture studies; regression-to-the-mean effects; related life-history traits; human origins research; and the poverty of predictions from culture-only explanations. The preponderance of evidence demonstrates that in intelligence, brain size, and other life-history variables, East Asians average a higher IQ and larger brain than Europeans who average a higher IQ and larger brain than Africans [a recent study indicates average African IQ of 75]. Further, these group differences are 50–80% heritable. These are facts, not opinions and science must be governed by data. There is no place for the ‘‘moralistic fallacy’’ that reality must conform to our social, political, or ethical desires. (“James Watson’s most inconvenient truth: Race realism and the moralistic fallacy“)

These data cannot be wished away any more than one can wish away the data showing the existence of race.

2. Again with few exceptions (James Thompson, John Derbyshire) Wade and others have tried their best to avoid any connotation of racial superiority. Charles Murray’s review:

As the story is untangled, it will also become obvious how inappropriate it is to talk in terms of the “inferiority” or “superiority” of groups. Consider, for example, the Big Five personality traits: openness, conscientiousness, extraversion, agreeableness and neuroticism. What are the ideal points on these continua? They will differ depending on whether you’re looking for the paragon of, say, a parent or an entrepreneur. And the Big Five only begin to tap the dozens of ways in which human traits express themselves. Individual human beings are complicated bundles of talents, proclivities, strengths and flaws that interact to produce unexpected and even internally contradictory results. The statistical tendencies (and they will be only tendencies) that differentiate groups of humans will be just as impossible to add up as the qualities of an individual. Vive les différences.

I agree that people are suited for different niches and that there is no such thing as an ideal personality. The problem is that, as Murray is well aware, IQ and conscientiousness (impulse control) are very important in contemporary societies because information processing and impulse control are the key to upward mobility and, in the aggregate, reasonably high average levels are essential to running a civilized society. We can all agree that West Africans are the world’s best sprinters and East Africans are the world’s best long distance runners, but those traits are not important for adjusting to the contemporary urbanized world.

For all practical purposes, some biological clusters are superior to others when it comes to navigating contemporary highly technological, information-based societies. This has grave moral implications because some of these clusters are at a very large disadvantage in such societies, leading to pleas for group-based entitlements (quotas and affirmative action), resentments on all sides (e.g., concerns by Asians that race-based affirmative action will lead to a decline in Asian enrollments at the University of California), negative stereotyping, calls for reparation, etc.

It follows from this that if indeed Rushton, Jensen, et al. are correct that important race differences in behavior have an important genetic component, it is the height of folly to continue importing millions of low-IQ people into Western societies if for no other reason than its effect on the long-term social conflict and even the viability of those societies.

ORDER IT NOW

From the beginning, race denial has been central to arguments for overturning the ethnic status quo created by the 1924 immigration law. If there is no such thing as race and if there are no biologically based race differences, then there can be no objection to immigration of all peoples. As Harvard historian Oscar Handlin wrote in a 1952 Commentary article, “all men, being brothers, are equally capable of being Americans” (here, p. 285). Or, as Senator Jacob Javits argued in a speech during the debate over the 1965 immigration law: “both the dictates of our consciences as well as the precepts of sociologists tell us that immigration, as it exists in the national origins quota system, is wrong and without any basis in reason or fact for we know better than to say that one man is better than another because of the color of his skin” (Ibid., 254).

3. Lots of reviews mention Wade’s treatment of the main villains in the race denial movement—Franz Boas, Ashley Montagu, Richard Lewontin, Stephen J. Gould, Steven Rose, Leon Kamin, et al. It is not at all uncommon to claim that they were politically motivated. But with the exception of Cooper Sterling’s excellent review, none has made the slightest hint that the race denial movement would not have happened without the intellectual ethnic activism of the Jewish left — which got its first taste of power beyond the academic world in the 1960s and became dominant by the 1970s.

Indeed, I can’t think of any prominent race denial figures who are not Jewish. The backbone of the race denial movement was a specific radical Jewish subculture that had become entirely within the mainstream of the American Jewish community by the early twentieth century—the subject of Chapters 2 and 3 of The Culture of Critique (see also here). There is excellent evidence for their strong Jewish identifications, their concern with specific Jewish issues such as anti-Semitism, and for their hostility and sense of moral and intellectual superiority toward the traditional people and culture of America. Jonathan Marks is a contemporary example of this long and dishonorable tradition. The rise of the left to elite status in American society, beginning with with universities, is key to understanding the race denial movement and the stifling political correctness that is all around us today.

4. Most importantly, reviewers and Wade himself ignore the point that the race denial movement has been a weapon against Whites which is a major contributing factor in their displacement not only in the United States and other European-derived societies, but even in Europe.

This has huge evolutionary implications. It is often forgotten that the title of the first five editions of Darwin’s masterpiece was On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life. A bedrock aspect of evolutionary theory has always been competition between biological clusters. For example, a mutation for lactose tolerance has been proposed as key to the Indo-European expansion, leading to selection favoring the entire complement of genes in the Indo-European cluster, ultimately at the expense of other peoples.

Wade notes that “ideas about race are dangerous when linked to political agendas. It puts responsibility on scientists to test rigorously the scientific ideas that are placed before the public” (p. 37).

Dangerous indeed. But this is always glossed to mean that it might be “dangerous” for Whites to assert their interests — that the danger is to non-Whites whose interests might be compromised by Whites.

The reality is that the race denial movement has always been a politically and ethnically motivated ideology. And it is dangerous indeed because it is one of the most powerful weapons ever devised against the ethnic genetic interests of Whites. The result has been that the biological clusters of Europeans have been dwindling as a percentage of the population not only in the world as a whole, but in Europe and European-derived societies in North America, Australia, and New Zealand. In Darwinian terms, this is natural selection.

The race denial movement is completely analogous to the mutation for lactose tolerance. However, rather than a genetic mutation, it is a cultural mutation (meme) that has facilitated the expansion of a wide range of biological clusters at the expense of European populations. If European populations had a strong sense that they are indeed a biological clustering with an interest in maintaining themselves (Frank Salter’s On Genetic Interests presents the technical argument), they would resist the current invasions and place controls on corporations and individuals that derive economic benefits from immigration. Societies motivated to maintain their ethnic integrity (contemporary Israel, the U.S. until 1965) are able to control such interests. But, as it is, the ethnic interests of Whites are unmentionable in polite discourse.

In former times, human evolution took place on the battlefield and in making discoveries or simply carrying mutations that allowed human groups to expand into new areas. Now a critical arena is conflict of interests over the construction of culture—such as creating and disseminating cultural variants like race denial that facilitate population movements favoring some populations at the expense of others.

Nicholas Wade has indeed reopened a huge can of worms with A Troublesome Inheritance—so huge that it is to be entirely expected that the powers that be will make every effort to contain its implications. In this regard, it’s interesting that The Bell Curve has had little, if any, influence on public policy 20 years after its publication. A similar fate likely awaits A Troublesome Inheritance.

(Republished from The Occidental Observer by permission of author or representative)
 
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  1. Rational says:

    A GOOD SLOGAN FOR THESE DARK AGES—TRUTH SHALL PREVAIL.

    Thanks for the great article, Sir. You are so right. We are living in the dark ages, where saying the obvious, that there are IQ and other differences between people and races, gets one ostracized.

    But we must still speak up, no matter what the cost.

    So, one day I decided, this:

    No matter how many jobs they fire me,
    No matter how poor they make me,
    No matter how hungry they get me,
    I shall still speak up the truth.

    No matter how they all leave me,
    No matter how they mock me,
    No matter how much they shun me,
    I shall still speak up the truth.

  2. anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:

    ANTI-WHITES demand ‘Diversity’, mass immigration, open borders – for Whites ONLY!

    “Diversity is a strength” means “White people are a weakness”

    They are not required of ANY non-white peoples ANYWHERE!

    It’s White GENO cide

    • Replies: @padre
    , @Whitewolf
  3. Thanks for a another great article!

  4. onebornfree says: • Website

    IQ is largely a pseudo-scientific swindle” Nassim Nicholas Taleb
    https://medium.com/incerto/iq-is-largely-a-pseudoscientific-swindle-f131c101ba39

    “I suspect the I.Q., SAT, and school grades are tests designed by nerds so they can get high scores in order to call each other intelligent…Smart and wise people who score low on IQ tests, or patently intellectually defective ones, like the former U.S. president George W. Bush, who score high on them (130), are testing the test and not the reverse.”― Nassim Nicholas Taleb, The Bed of Procrustes: Philosophical and Practical Aphorisms
    https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/616469-i-suspect-the-i-q-sat-and-school-grades-are-tests

    Regards, onebornfree

  5. onebornfree says: • Website

    “The reality is that the race denial movement has always been a politically and ethnically motivated ideology. “

    And that makes it different from its opposite “movement” exactly how?

    Regards, onebornfree

  6. Anonymous[364] • Disclaimer says:

    The fanatical dogma of Christianity is still in full force in the West. Accepting biological evolution in human beings, or being a race-realist, radically breaks from “the Judeo-Christian image of a human being as containing an immortal spark of the divine.”[1] The modern Cathedral–composed today mainly of “Liberal Creationists”[2] who have subsumed literal creationism–become rather Inquisitive about such apostasy, e.g., Christian Democrat Angela Merkel, a Lutheran and daughter of a Lutheran minister, who bitterly clings to “the monotheist conviction that all souls are equal before God.”[3]

    [MORE]

    [1] “In Western societies, the Judeo-Christian image of humankind—whether you are a believer or not—has secured a minimal moral consensus in everyday life. It has been a major factor in social cohesion. Now that the neurosciences have irrevocably dissolved the Judeo-Christian image of a human being as containing an immortal spark of the divine, we are beginning to realize that they have not substituted anything that could hold society together and provide a common ground for shared moral intuitions and values.” p. 297 –Thomas Metzinger, The Ego Tunnel: The Science of the Mind and the Myth of the Self. (Basic Books, 2009)

    [2] Liberal Creationism slate.com/articles/health_and_science/human_nature/features/2007/created_equal/liberalcreationism.html

    [3] “The liberal belief in the free and sacred nature of each individual is a direct legacy of the traditional Christian belief in the free and eternal souls. Without recourse to eternal souls and a Creator God, it becomes embarrassingly difficult for liberals to explain what is so special about individual Sapiens. […] The idea that all humans are equal is a revamped version of the monotheist conviction that all souls are equal before God.” p. 231 –Yuval Harari, Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind. (Harper Collins, 2015)

    As John Gray also notes, liberal humanist values are merely a “hollowed-out version of a theistic myth” (John Gray, 2015.)

  7. Anonymous[254] • Disclaimer says:

    Great article.

    BTW, the quoted interview needs editing:

    . . . you’ll be set upon as a racist and you’re career will be destroyed.

    “So the whole of the academic left is sort of hoist on its own petard.

  8. Curle says:
    @onebornfree

    The opposite constitutes the best available science/evidence. Taleb can suspect anything he wishes but won’t overcome that inconvenient truth. The egalitarian hypothesis doesn’t even posses a working hypothesis outside of the fallacy of historicism.

    • Replies: @Paw
  9. Ghali says:

    “There is zero evidence that academic science has excluded people because of their race ” is horse shit. Scientists – especially those who got there because they know someone – are the most racist bigots.

    Watson himself had acknowledge in the past that he harbors racism in his DNA. He is British after all and got to where he is because he discriminated against a female, Rosalind Elsie Franklin. All credits goes to her.

  10. Here’s a repost from Steve’s article. It seems relevant here too. Let me add the following: 1) This is once again is a Jewish plan for destroying Western Civilization since if the minorities can’t score enough points on any type of test it’s because it’s biased. Since we are equal then we can just place the Blacks and other minorities in these positions without any qualifications. 2) This is Obama’s meme and it’s just about numbers and when the numbers are what they think they should be then we have an “Equal Society.” However, don’t ask these geniuses about the ratio of Blacks to Whites in sports like the NBA or NFL because they don’t want to hear it. 3) The Magic Jews will never give up their own data because they are the Chosen People. Try asking Zucker at CNN what percentage of Jews are employed at CNN and in the top positions. Try asking the Jews why they have over 75% of all college and university presidents, deans, and administrators in the Ivy league. Jews control almost all college departments in the Humanities and Social Sciences throughout the country. 4). The Jews, DemoRats and the RhinoPubs know this is all bull..it but they don’t care because we will be fighting over stuff like this as they will continue the complete takeover of society. It’s what they do; they make these societal problems as a diversion and slowly break us down and basically laugh at us.

    One does not need to be scientist to figure out that we are all different and that people have different ranges of intelligence and cannot all do the same thing in life. I call this the Astronaut Theory. Yes, everyone can be an Astronaut even if your IQ is 85………..here’s the latest nonsense from Taleb on this………

    Taleb’s basic argument is that the number IQ is dubious on how it is derived. Furthermore, no matter what you do to massage or masturbate the number it’s not relevant and anyone who believes it has some validity is either a racist or a Eugenicist and so forth.

    Taleb has made some interesting points and few people on the planet probably have his mathematical ability. However, like the physicists Taleb decries he has fallen into his own trap. What he can prove mathematically like many theoretical physicists appears to have limited validity in the real world.

    Africa is a cesspool and there is no way of getting around it. It may take a certain IQ to be an engineer, let’s say 120. Having an IQ of 120 gives one the potential to be an engineer; it doesn’t guarantee it because one needs certain other aptitudes to be an engineer. Taleb seems impervious to the real world. The average IQ of most African countries is disastrous to put it mildly. Africa lacks proper infrastructure. When the British and other colonial powers left the native populations were unable to do much for upkeep or to develop anything new. The system collapsed. China and other countries are now building such structures at a severe price as Kenyans just found out with one of their ports being taken over by the Chinese.

    The reason that sub-saharian African was such a mess is because their civilizations consisted of tribal war lording factions which is still part of the problem today. They didn’t build squat. They had some better civilizations in the Nubian time period (which lasted less than 100 years) but for the most part these were not inquisitive motivated people and still are not in many respects. They produced lots of people and sold them into slavery by various war lords….mostly to the Muslims who contrary to the recent rewriting of history were and still are the greatest slave traders of all time. They were not exploratory…because they couldn’t build a boat to get off the damn continent.

    Perhaps Taleb thinks these people are suddenly going to become engineers and scientists by something in the air. The problem is the way the world is we don’t have another 3000 years to find out because of disease, famine, overpopulation, pollution and host of the problems. My friends work in Africa in the medical, scientific, and travel industries and they believe the continent will collapse. When you have a base population which consists of small group of really smart people, a small group of average intellects, and massive population of low IQ types democracies and civilizations are rare indeed. Many blacks in America and other Western nations have a chance to succeed because we have an infrastructure where they can fit in…like a niche whether it’s sports, music, entertainment or whatever. Without this infrastructure and lots of low IQs you get what you get in Africa.

    I will leave the Great Taleb with a quote from Bill Parcels: You are what your record shows you are and what does the record show for Africa and other places with such low IQs!

    • Replies: @Digital Samizdat
    , @Druid
  11. Hmmmmmm,

    I would buy the advance concerning exclusion, save for that tricky business of segregated schools, and segregated communities. And we are not talking about mere separation, but the wholesale denial of access into every aspect of mainstream “US” systems that would impact IQ: education. It is quite feat to ignore history.

    If i spend several hundred years barring one from the main, worse denigrating them to ensure they remain in place and then one day change my mind and pretend to be bewildered by their lack of performance —–

    Well, one doesn’t need an IQ above ten to figure out the long term consequences.

    There are two dynamic in play:

    East Asians comprise a large swath of people to choose from in terms of class, so when we talk about them with respect to IQ we are not talking about an insular closed cast population, the same applies in reverse with Jews, small but very insulated population. Their historical intrapersonal political and social is completely different than what blacks experienced. And if you pretend that in the US the main population did work to keep blacks out and when a black actually invented something — could not get credit via a patent.

    Now one has to grant that it’s tougher to engage in the practices of the past — so a comment that “no one is keeping blacks out” may be more accurate today. But that is game to discount the not so distant past. The past uncovered provides new light.

    I don’t think Dr. Ivan Van Sertima and others are speaking out of their hats.

    • Replies: @Mishima Zaibatsu
  12. Dr. Wade, I suspect is playing fast and loose with the rhetoric here.

    Human adaptation is not the same thing as the implications of human evolution. We are not different races.

    • Replies: @Donald A Thomson
  13. The most difficult thing in management for me was explaining to insufficient functioning employees that they functioned insufficiently.
    With those that functioned a little, the explanation was possible, with those that did not function at all, impossible.
    Before readers here think I was a bad manager, several times my job was to clear up an organisational mess, though I’m not infallible, I cannot remember ever having hired the completely wrong persons.

    Anyhow, how does one make a stupid person understand that he or she is stupid ?
    In intellectual work, impossible or next to impossible.

    In doing concrete things, it is most of the time obvious.
    For years I’ve been a sailing instructor, the most difficult week I had with a Swiss fascinated by sea sailing.
    He was convinced he knew anything about sailing.
    The lessons began on Sunday afternoon, the program was such that at Thursday afternoon they were supposed to be able to steer a simple course around two buoys.

    This Swiss during more than an hour failed to do this, in this hour I had to prevent several more or less dangerous situations.
    But, after an hour, it began to dawn on him that he understood next to nothing about sailing.
    On Saturday morning he left for Switserland, deeply disappointed.
    I wonder if this hour on Thursday afternoon prevented a couple of drownings on the North Sea.

  14. @onebornfree

    One side admits that it is ethnically motived, while the other concocts and hides behind ‘universal values’. One side has some empirical/scientific evidence to bolster its case; the other simply dismisses science as ‘racist’ and ‘rapist’.

    There’s a difference …

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  15. eah says:

    Gedankenexperiment — thought experiment — the ‘morally panicked’ should be asked to perform ein Gedankenexperiment: assume that average group IQ differences are genetic (correlation of higher IQ with positive life outcomes is obvious) — then socioeconomic inequality will be more or less built-in to ‘diverse’ societies — socioeconomic inequality, especially when it crosses racial/ethnic lines, is generally seen as pathological, requiring government remedies via coercion, eg massive income redistribution schemes — these measures are generally incompatible with the political-economic and philosophical underpinnings of the West, above all freedom.

    • Agree: Gordo
  16. El Dato says:
    @onebornfree

    This argument is w/o merit. Sourness at not getting the 150 he expected?

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/deadlifting-is-a-pseudoscientific-swindle/

    I always hear that Taleb is called a “mathematician”. That sounds more like a job description (“I deal with mathematical tools, like Gaussians, integration, statistics and stuff”) than a description of particular achievement (“I pushed forward Category Theory by proving a few theorems and writing a few books for postgrads”)

    https://www.quora.com/What-do-mathematicians-think-of-Nassim-Taleb

    In other words: That grain of Taleb Salt is HUUUUGE.

    • Replies: @BigDickNick
  17. @onebornfree

    Do not think so.
    When hiring employees without any work experience it in my experience it is quite difficult to judge if they’re fit for the job or not.
    Once I had fifty applicants tested psychologically at the same time, same tests.
    All of them university graduates.
    I hired the fifteen with the highest scores.
    They performed according to the test results.

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
  18. Anyone interested in reading a fake science book I can recommend
    Verene A. Shepherd, ‘I want to Disturb my Neighbour, Lectures on Slavery, Emancipation and Postcolonial Jamaica’, Kingston 2007
    Journalism and political activism.

  19. Anon[461] • Disclaimer says:
    @onebornfree

    “The reality is that the race denial movement has always been a politically and ethnically motivated ideology. “

    And that makes it different from its opposite “movement” exactly how?

    Its opposite movement, colloquially known as the race realist movement in places where dissenting conversation often takes place, is a reflection of reality as supported by science and thus does not require debate censorship.

    Its conclusions stand on their merits and thus their authors and supporting critics (peer reviewers) are unafraid of open challenge.

    While most scientific issues that bear on policy have a measure of political motivation affecting them, the effective allowance or disallowance for open debate over the issue uniquely defines those political motivations as effectively scientifically benign or scientifically corrupting.

    In the case of the race denialist position, they depend on the avoidance of a true open scientific community debate (in whatever form that it would take) that would otherwise be devoid of any form of punitive consequences that would affect the integrity of that debate.

    Thus their position requires a strong measure of demonstrated scientific corruption, likely to survive at all.

    They know this and know how corrupt that it looks, which has to be demoralizing for any of them with any measure of deeply rooted ethics, but there is no other option but to intimidate and punish dissenters if their politically mandated position is to be defended under the guise of science.

    The NYT article merely serves to run exceedingly weak continuous cover for and to perpetuate this large scientific scam for just a little bit longer. They are trying to eek out as much mileage as possible before the wheels completely fall off of their Elmers glue rickshaw that they are trying to pass off as a rock solid Toyota.

    That’s your political difference between race denialism and race realism. The latter is the only position that begs for the application of first world, uncorrupted scientific review standards to the issue. The former depends on institutionally supported corruption of those standards to survive.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  20. Anon[461] • Disclaimer says:
    @onebornfree

    1. Taleb is being flippant. His nerd comment is not a serious argument and thus doesn’t stand as a valid argument to reference in anything resembling a debate.

    2. ‘Smart’ and ‘wise’ are not remotely equivalent, and so this is not a valid debate point either. We don’t make street wise people pilots because they have “wisdom”. We only make legitimately higher IQ people pilots, engineers, etc.

    3. Referring to former POTUS GWB as intellectually defective says more about your intelligence than his. This is so obvious that such a comment does not need to be further dignified.

    4. Taleb has no degree related to standardized testing of any kind and is thus not remotely an expert on the topic. He simply isn’t qualified to comment, and his statements carry no weight even ignoring their aforementioned absurdity.

    Let’s see if you can demonstrate a modicum of IQ by commenting with original thought instead of copypasta of someone else’s casual and defective thoughts.

  21. The IQ debate is worthless. So, just two objections.

    Obsession with (collective) IQ is weird. Evidently, a functioning modern civilization or human collective has not much to do with bare IQ. Well known examples:

    Mongolia- IQ 101

    Lithuania- IQ 91

    And Mongolia is, compared to Lithuania, a dump.

    American blacks or African Americans- IQ 85

    India- IQ 82

    While there are numerous Indian top physicists, mathematicians, engineers, excellent schools, … no such thing among blacks.

    The test questions are overrated & most people simply conflate various types of intelligence, talent, inquisitiveness, critical thinking & general education.

    A few examples from history.

    No one could say that philosophers like Hegel, Schopenhauer or Heidegger were not “intelligent” (whatever this may mean), but they’d been science illiterates, clueless about basic workings of the universe- and, more, just didn’t care. Their type of abstract thinking was not aligned with mathematical ability, let alone anything like curiosity about physical universe. And hardly anyone could claim they were not original, critical, highly abstract…thinkers.

    Theirs was a different type of intellect. I think that neuroimagining in past few years has shown that mathematicians’ brains, when solving problems, work basically with numbers (whichever the level of abstraction), while other types of highly concentrated brain activity are more evenly spread across brain (or this area is not yet fully explored?). Perhaps something to do with words? Dunno..

    https://www.livescience.com/54370-math-brain-network-discovered.html (this is partially wrong since Einstein was not a great mathematician, nor was his thinking “mathematical”, to be nitpicking)

    https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/232765-this-is-your-brain-on-physics

    Or, great mathematicians like Galois or Alexander Grothendieck were not particularly interested (gifted?) in physics & their ideas about human life, politics, society …. were frequently obscurantist or absurd. Simply- dumb.

    Also, some great physicists were not particularly “bright” re mathematics (or numerous other fields)- Faraday; Einstein, as a mathematician, is not so great. He was one of the greatest physicists; his mathematical ability was not stellar by any account.

    If we are to consider important life-sciences achievers (Aristotle, Darwin, Mendel, Watson,..) we can see again that their contributions do not show any kind of spectacular mental ability re math & physics.

    So, a rather trivial conclusion would be: 1. various types of talent & inquisitive mind (mathematics, life sciences, astronomy, physics, philosophy, …) sometimes do intersect- but mostly they do not, these are worlds apart, 2. having said that all, critical thinking is a completely different issue & contrary to most expectations, it has nothing to do with high achieving-even at genius level- in any particular area.

    To put it simply: blacks are irredeemably aggressive, destructive & of low cognitive ability. We all know this. We don’t need tests. We don’t need a single test. We just have to look at the world from US to Brazil to Haiti to Zambia to Nigeria and SA.

  22. Realist says:
    @Rational

    So, one day I decided, this:

    No matter how many jobs they fire me,
    No matter how poor they make me,
    No matter how hungry they get me,
    I shall still speak up the truth.

    No matter how they all leave me,
    No matter how they mock me,
    No matter how much they shun me,
    I shall still speak up the truth.

    As always so much easier said than done.

    • Replies: @jack daniels
  23. Realist says:

    Are there no multi-millionaires or billionaires that support real science by coming to the rescue of Dr Watson???

    • Replies: @lavoisier
    , @res
  24. Where does Taleb stand on the question of Jewish power and influence? I assume he does not agree with the Cofnas and Peterson argument of high IQ explaining away the disproportionate power and influence of the Jews. Is Taleb in the MacDonald camp? Or does he hold a third position? I cannot imagine Taleb not having an opinion on this question. He has an opinion on anything and will call you an imbecile if you dare to disagree.

    • Agree: Wizard of Oz
  25. padre says:
    @anonymous

    Just where did you find those “ANTI-WHITES”?

  26. jim jones says:

    The Chinese have sufficient intelligence to land a spacecraft on the far side of the moon:

    • Replies: @onebornfree
  27. onebornfree says: • Website
    @Anon

    Disclaimer says:

    3. Referring to former POTUS GWB as intellectually defective says more about your intelligence than his. This is so obvious that such a comment does not need to be further dignified.
    🙂

    4. “Taleb has no degree related to standardized testing of any kind and is thus not remotely an expert on the topic. He simply isn’t qualified to comment, and his statements carry no weight even ignoring their aforementioned absurdity. Let’s see if you can demonstrate a modicum of IQ by commenting with original thought instead of copypasta of someone else’s casual and defective thoughts. ” 🙂 🙂 🙂

    Thank you for your clarity. No further comment, or even a “copy/paste”, required!

    Regards, onebornfree

    • Agree: jacques sheete
    • Replies: @Anon
  28. I find it entertaining to harass my Murray-fan friend with the accusation that Murray is a racist. My friend tries to defend Murray on the grounds that IQ is just one little trait, and Murray doesn’t hate black people yada yada yada. I reply that my segregationist relatives don’t hate black people either, but hold Murray’s view of their intellectual capacity. My friend, showing his own intellectual limits, insists on a distinction without a difference. Murray is an obedient neocon who likely thinks blacks are great at music, while my relatives he would dismiss as evil racists.
    Murray ought to know better than to carry on as if intelligence is just one little detail about a person when it’s obviously the trait that people are most proud of, rightly or wrongly.
    But I disagree with the view that we always want high-IQ immigrants. Too many high-IQ people coming in will reduce our native-born A-students to jobs as assistant managers at Harris Teeter. And there may well be jobs to which low-IQ people are better suited; allegedly the police department thinks so and won’t hire high-IQs for some positions. The optimum balance between high-IQ and low-IQ workers presumably varies with a number of factors and I doubt there is any hard scientific predictive model in this area, if it’s studied at all.

    • Agree: Digital Samizdat
    • Replies: @onebornfree
  29. @onebornfree

    For evidence of your assertion, all one has to do is read some of the comments here at UR made by some of those who claim and/or obviously think of themselves as “intelligent.” Mostly they make a mockery of the concept and monkeys of themselves.

    Some of the most street stupid people I’ve ever known have been endowed with supposedly high IQs. Those who obsess over “intelligence” often present themselves as some sort of narcissistic cult with some type of pathological need to bully others. The self preening is nearly as amusing in some ways as it is pathetic.

    I’m not much of a Lippman fan, ( for various reasons), but it’s hard to argue sensibly with the many of the points he made about the subject at hand in the series of articles he wrote nearly a century ago. Here’s how he begins.:

    A STARTLING bit of news has recently been unearthed and is now being retailed by the credulous to the gullible. (emphasis mine)”The average mental age of Americans,” says Mr. Lothrop Stoddard in The Revolt Against Civilization, “is only about fourteen.” Mr. Stoddard did not invent this astonishing conclusion. He found it ready-made in the writings of a number of other writers. They in their turn got the conclusion by misreading the data collected in the army intelligence tests.

    – Walter Lippmann, The Mental Age of Americans, The new Republic, Oct 25, 1922, p213-214.

    http://www.unz.org/Pub/NewRepublic-1922oct25-00213?View=PDF

  30. @Anon

    The latter is the only position that begs for the application of first world, uncorrupted scientific review standards to the issue.

    There’s the fly in your flan. Uncorrupted? Scientific?

    Dream on!

  31. @Conglomerate

    Good point. Taleb is Lebanese, so I can’t imagine he’s completely indifferent to the Judenfrage. (But of course, it might not be a wise career move for him to speak out on it!)

  32. @Ghali

    Watson himself had acknowledge in the past that he harbors racism in his DNA. He is British after all and got to where he is because he discriminated against a female, Rosalind Elsie Franklin. All credits goes to her.

    Bullcorn. Watson said she should have received a Nobel in Chemistry for her work, but he never gave “all” the credit to her for discovering the DNA double-helix. This is some new story that is being spread around by the media in a desperate attempt to discredit him. (As I said on another comment thread here at Unz, I wouldn’t be surprised if they someday stripped Watson of his Nobel posthumously for Crimethink.)

  33. lavoisier says: • Website
    @Ghali

    He did not discriminate against Rosalind Franklin. He saw an image of her crystallography work and realized that the DNA molecule must be a double helix, instead of a triple helix as had been proposed by Pauling.

    Should he have acknowledged her contribution better? Absolutely.

    He then took this information, along with other important information such as Chargaff’s rules for base pairing, and in concert with Crick formulated a structure for the DNA molecule.

    Franklin’s work was important for sure, but she did not discover the structure of the DNA molecule nor should all credit go to her for this discovery.

    Many other scientists made valuable contributions as well.

    • Agree: Endgame Napoleon
    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  34. @Anon

    ‘Smart’ and ‘wise’ are not remotely equivalent, and so this is not a valid debate point either.

    You gain points for the first statement but lose them for your conclusion because its quite evident that in this context, we dimwits (particularly we ignorant ones) are supposed to believe that our mental superiors are to be our moral and practical superiors as well. The obvious implication is that we better shut up and listen to our betters. It’s the old idea of oracles all dressed up in “scientific” legitimacy, and likely just another way of snookering the the simple.

    • Replies: @Anon
  35. @Realist

    Not only is it easier said than done, but you have to consider whether the intended beneficiaries of your heroism really appreciate it or deserve it. It might be better to consider which battles you want to fight and which are best avoided. The world is largely run by people who keep many of their opinions hidden, like RINO Republicans. Maybe the Alt Right could learn something by reflecting on their approach. There ought to be a secret handshake or something.

  36. @Bardon Kaldian

    “No one could say that philosophers like Hegel, Schopenhauer or Heidegger were not “intelligent” (whatever this may mean), but they’d been science illiterates, clueless about basic workings of the universe- and, more, just didn’t care. Their type of abstract thinking was not aligned with mathematical ability, let alone anything like curiosity about physical universe. And hardly anyone could claim they were not original, critical, highly abstract…thinkers.”

    This raises a very interesting question: does a strong, particular cognitive proclivity (say for mathematics) always come with a strong inclination toward it? Put differently, could there be a potential mathematical genius walking around somewhere but with no interest in actually doing mathematics?
    Heidegger’s “critical, highly abstract” abilities made him one of the top 20th century philosophers (at least he is at the top on citation indexes); if interested, would he have been a great mathematician?

  37. onebornfree says: • Website
    @jim jones

    jim jones says: “The Chinese have sufficient intelligence to land a spacecraft on the far side of the moon”

    And you apparently lack the intelligence to even suspect that propaganda put out by any state anywhere in the world most likely consists of 100% lies supported by simple computerized video fabrication.

    Or is it all real to you simply because the Chinese communist party says so? What else that this particular source churns out do you believe right off the bat? You’re kidding, right?

    Regards, onebornfree

    • Replies: @Eagle Eye
  38. @jacques sheete

    We need to bear in mind that intelligence as measured by IQ tests is not one ability but a grab-bag of abilities bundled together. People can be very gifted in one area and mediocre in another but still end up with a high score. No doubt there are some important abilities the tests overlook. Meanwhile, the weighting of the different components is presumably arbitrary to some extent.

    On the subject of black intelligence, the following thought occurred to me. Someone who drives to the basket, fakes, and gets off a successful jump shot over the out-stretched hand of a towering defender has a whole lot of variables affecting the success of his effort and these are being weighted and calculated in real time at a subconscious level. Surely there’s more going on here than “reflexes.” So his brain is solving a complicated problem that could be expressed by a big bunch of differential equations. Rocket science, really, only the calculations are accomplished by brain processes that operate similarly to an analog rather than digital computer, probably.

  39. @Conglomerate

    … high IQ explaining away the disproportionate power and influence of the Jews.

    Shhh! How bright izzit to give away a major part of the game?

  40. @niteranger

    The Magic Jews will never give up their own data because they are the Chosen People.

    Whenever the subject changes from ‘oppression’ to economics, notice how the Jews suddenly all become white!

    • Replies: @niteranger
  41. onebornfree says: • Website
    @jack daniels

    jack daniels says: “But I disagree with the view that we always want high-IQ immigrants. Too many high-IQ people coming in will reduce our native-born A-students to jobs as assistant managers at Harris Teeter. And there may well be jobs to which low-IQ people are better suited; allegedly the police department thinks so and won’t hire high-IQs for some positions. The optimum balance between high-IQ and low-IQ workers presumably varies with a number of factors and I doubt there is any hard scientific predictive model in this area, if it’s studied at all.”

    And so the government can and “should” be in charge of enforcing your standards of deciding who gets to live/work into a country, right?

    Because the government will enforce your standards, right?

    And your next brilliant fantasy would be…….?

    Regards, onebornfree

    • Agree: jacques sheete
  42. I’d like to ask Dr. MacDonald what anti-Semitism is. I’m pretty sure I’m guilty of it but I’m not completely sure because the definition has to exclude anything rational or appropriate. At varying times I have been pissed off at snooty WASPs, pugnacious Irishmen, criminal Italians, humorless Germans, oily evangelicals, over-bearing Roman Catholics, and other groups. How is being angry at Jews different? All the other groups are considered fair game to hostile criticism but not Jews. Some British rabbi tried to formulate the difference between anti-Semitism and respectable opposition to Israel or Jewish politics but his formulation was grossly inadequate. This question deserves serious discussion even if the “JQ” remains off limits.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  43. eah says:
    @onebornfree

    And that makes it different from its opposite “movement” exactly how?

    It was explained to you: The opposite constitutes the best available science/evidence.

    Come on man — it’s OK if you want to comment here and dispute the validity of IQ findings — but don’t spam the thread with utter bullshit like this.

  44. @Digital Samizdat

    That is not entirely accurate. One side has data that extrapolates IQ. But the questions concerning the models design and what it measures is challenged as one of bias. Furthermore, the data as by the model indicates a IQ differences. It does not link IQ to a genetic code or relationship that is unique to any population. The genetic codex to IQ.

    Especially questionable is whether that codex if it exists is bound to skin color as is the real press here. As challenges are being made to the social construction (social biases and unfair treatment, for lack of a better term) there is increasing pressure for the dominant society to justify their treatment of certain populations, especially blacks — and the current popular push is to IQ.

    Blacks are in the position they are not because of historical institutional social constructs but by their low IQ which in not environmental but biological.

    The argument suffers painfully from the same faults as those who claim “same sex” practitioners are destined to engage in said behavior because of biology as opposed to environment and personal choice.

    The most important dampener on the issue is that societies don’t need high IQ’s to function effectively, efficiently or even successfully. Considering the financial, social, and strategic catastrophes visited on human beings by people with High IQ’s — the contention that IQ is genetically determined challenges it’s value.

    I suspect that our best and brightest are currently being plagued by their failed leadership choices. And the panic if there is one is to stir up a just on IQ to avoid the richer discussion, why their IQ has had such damaging effects.

    Caveat: Nothing wrong with high IQ

  45. Anne Lid says:
    @Ghali

    You’ve got to be kidding. Franklin and Watson had some misunderstandings, and Franklin in general did not get along with gentiles. She did not even realise what she was looking at, so all credit does not go to her – some of the credit, definitely. She considered her greatest work finding the tobacco mosaic virus.

  46. Mr Unz
    https://doorbraak.be/vlindernet-voor-democratie/
    An excellent and unique, in the present world, article on how international law, international courts, international treaties, organisations as the UN, all kinds of NGO’s, human rights, battle against racism and discrimination, more and more abolish sovereignty and democracy.
    Peoples are under international oversight, a non democratic oversight.
    This Belgian lawyer states that it is high time politicians and ordinary people see the danger, and do something about it.

    First time I saw an article about the dangers of international law, dangers I realise since a long time.
    How politicised international courts have become we saw recently here in Europe by the debate on the nomination of a new member of the European Court.

    Eric Zemmour, ‘Le Suicide Francais’, 2014 Paris, the book on how France committed suicide, describes how the European Court was an important factor in France’s death.
    One can interpret the Yellow Vest movement as trying to resurrect France.

    I’ve been considering translating it into english for publication here, but it is quite a job, I suppose there are copyright problems, and I’m not at all sure you want to publish it here, or that the author likes publication here.
    A possibility is asking him for an english summary.
    His law firm e mail address can be easily found.

  47. @Bardon Kaldian

    The IQ comparison between Mongolia and Lithuania is interesting if true. Obviously other factors must be taken into consideration as well, at least one of which is Asian aesthetics. Anyone who’s been to Hong Kong can tell you that once you get even a couple of blocks away from the downtown core, the place is a dump. And Chinatown in any city is cramped, dirty and tacky.

    I agree with your main point though. All other races have differences that may be positive or negative but all people can agree on basic ideas of behaviour. Which is why an Asian family can walk around in an Italian neighbourhood or a White family in a Mexican neighbourhood with no problems.

    The exception is blacks, who are stupid, violent and aggressive and cause nothing but trouble no matter where they are.

  48. Anon[206] • Disclaimer says: • Website

    One of the best overviews of the race denial movement, Jewish academia, and Cultural Marxism generally is given by E.M. Jones in this video, which includes a few remarks by K. MacDonald, – The Goy Guide to World History, Part 4

  49. @jacques sheete

    Having a high IQ has nothing to do with common sense, or understanding human emotions and motives.
    Alan Turing, the inventor of the programmable computer, who decrypted the Enigma messages, never understood that people exist with whom rational disccussion is not possible.

    What is seen as human brain in evolutionary terms is a weird collection of old and newer parts, conciousness, one of the last additions.
    Conciousness is where ideas from the older parts can be judged on consistency, future effects, relative importance.
    When the ideas coming from the older parts are very strong emotionally, conciousness cannot override them.

    Therefore, for example, discussion with deeply religious people is not possible.
    Religion is not just he belief in god(s), as the present time alas makes abundantly clear, we have the holocaust belief, the equal capacity belief, the migration belief and the CO2 belief.

  50. @Stephen Paul Foster

    Put differently, could there be a potential mathematical genius walking around somewhere but with no interest in actually doing mathematics?

    Generally, no. Math ability, like music ability (although located in different brain areas) is something “intrinsic”- therefore so many mathematical geniuses had been prodigies. Philosophy, on the other hand, is high abstract search for “wisdom” & it comes with age. As far as we can tell, no great philosophical work has been written when author was 20 or 25 years old.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  51. Anon[253] • Disclaimer says:

    Ah, One Born Free. I see you have freed yourself from reality. That helps to explain your multiple posts which have the same weight as a feather. Tell me you are a native american and your name comes from the first thing your father saw as he left the Tepee on the day your were born. You are lucky and you are not, Your name could have been “Soaring Eagle” or “Golden Cloud”. I think that your father was a wise man and when he realized your name would be “2 dogs #ucking”, he changed it to be “One Born Free”. He was a wise man but had no courage. Denial is not a good thing and not just a river in Egypt either. Keep up the Denial it will lead you far. Hopefully far away from the rest of us.

    • Replies: @onebornfree
  52. @jack daniels

    Agree.

    In fact, I find it nauseatingly simple minded to make a big deal out of easily manipulated and misinterpreted “tests” of any sort.

    In my humble and ignorant opinion, much of what’s labelled science is akin to what’s considered heroism today. Most of it is no doubt a fraud with the usual agenda.

    • Replies: @onebornfree
  53. Kevin McDonald

    All you get with IQ Nationalism is White Advovates such as you and Jared Taylor yapping in public about Asians being smarter than Native Born White Americans…

    And you know where this gets you…endless debates wth critics of IQ testing psychometrics…….while….The Historic Native Born White American Working got voted into a White Racial Minority within the borders of California by Asian “Americans”….

    I would ban IQ tests…for in 2o18…IQ tests track Working Class Native Born White American Males into the canon fodder…US ARMY…. track for OUR FRIEND ISRAEL!!!!

    Working Class Native Born White American Teenage Males should have been mentored for careers in Silicon Valley…not the youth of Greater China and Greater India…

    You and Jared Taylor are playing right into the hands of the Enemy….

  54. @jack daniels

    How is being angry at Jews different?

    Because they’re special, doncha know?

    Their high IQ makes them especially successful despite their eternal victimhood.

    Here the idea is expressed by one of our own resident geniuses with all the answers, right here, at UR!!!:

    Comment 359. Jeff Stryker says:Next New Comment
    January 3, 2019 at 10:32 am GMT • 100 Words
    @MoralMidget
    The difference between Gypsies, Muslims and Jews is that Jews are intelligent. They have the IQ (Combined with nepotism) to seize control of institutions.

    http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/israel-is-bad-for-america/#new_comments

    It’s all scientifical, ya know!

    • Replies: @jack daniels
    , @Wally
  55. M Edward says:

    Common sense is a European construct based on the average ethnic European IQ of 100…..

    Low IQ people have ‘no common sense’…..

    Many religious people are either weak minded or mentally ill.

    Faith and hope are not the same as a plan of action. Quite the opposite actually.

    Under threat, hope and faith will get you killed.

    • Replies: @atlantis_dweller
  56. @Johnny Smoggins

    The exception is blacks…

    If you’re talking about all blacks, then you’re wrong.

    If you’re referring to American blacks, then you need to consider that many of them are almost as white as snow and that the ancestors of some were bred by their owners, so you’d need to explain why their “high IQ” breeders failed to transmit many of their supposedly magnificent genes.

    … and cause nothing but trouble no matter where they are.

    Izzat trait limited to blacks alone, or what?

    • Replies: @Johnny Smoggins
  57. There are many problems with IQ ideology which remain insurmountable.

    We all use the word “intelligence” & even if we look at psychology dictionaries & agree with it, nonetheless the concept remains vague. Probably there are a few types of intelligence: verbal, arithmetic, geometrical & maybe a few others. Why would we lump these types if intelligence together is beyond my comprehension.

    As for musical ability, various types of talents in other fields…better not call this “intelligence” (social “intelligence, emotional “intelligence”,..). This is a misuse of the word. Ability, talent, whatever…

    Then, there remains the big, big elephant of creativity. Sorry, but creativity is something different & cannot be reduced to any psycho test; it, at its peaks, comes in flashes including intuition, dreaming, imagination,…

    As an example of poverty of psychological reductionism I’ll name preeminent American literary theorist & critic Harold Bloom (I’ve read ca. 10-15 of his books). His erudition is vast & his accomplishments great. He’s read basically- everything. His mother tongue is Yiddish; he later switched to English & learned, to a very high degree, German, French, Hebrew & koine Greek, with bits of Italian & Spanish. His memory is remarkable. He can read 3 novels a day & remember most of them; he knows Melville’s “Moby Dick” by heart, as he does most of Shakespeare’s collected works. As a student of wisdom religious literature & philosophy, he’s read & truly understood Schopenhauer, Nietzsche,..as well as Henry Corbin or Peter Brown or E.R. Dodds.

    And yet, as a seminal thinker, Bloom is, in his field, not such a big deal. High literary theory is basically a form of wisdom literature & here Blooms lags, evidently, behind Mikhail Bakhtin, Northrop Frye, Ernst Curtius, Bruno Snell, ….

    I wanted to say that exceptional mental ability comes in many forms & IQ concept is too rudimentary, too reductionist, too shallow, too unnecessary, …

    Perhaps in some future we will be able to ascertain, experimentally, through neuro-imagining, neurophysiology, brain investigation …. some new aspects & dimensions of human cognition and behavior (emotion, impulse control, ethical development,..) and intuition and imagination and …

    Until then, IQ “wars” are like masturbation compared to real sex.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  58. So, why aren’t East Asian scientific researchers reporting that East Asians have the largest brains and highest IQs of all the races? Why is it that white scientists are the only ones reporting this?

    Answer: Because East Asians are smarter than whites.

    • Replies: @foolisholdman
  59. onebornfree says: • Website
    @Anon

    Disclaimer says: “Ah, One Born Free. I see you have freed yourself from reality. That helps to explain your multiple posts which have the same weight as a feather. …”:

    Keep em coming, you’re doing just greaaaaaaaate 🙂

    Regards, onebornfree

  60. The race and IQ issue is non-negotiable for our hostile elites.

    Sheeny with truth. Whilst everybody in the world, at every latitude, itches for the truth about intelligence differences between people and races, the hostile elite, by their most sly use of enchantments, prevents the truth thereof to end up under the sun, gleefully welcomed celebrated and shared by humankind.

    They manage to keep truth from an entire planet of truth-starved, truth-enamoured humans.

  61. @M Edward

    120, 130 and 140 IQ folks taper with pinchbeck rationalitazions, and sell as “common sense” their ego-driven speech and deed just like the rest of humanity.
    It’s all the more sad to behold, actually.

    This said, while intelligence in no way unlocks the door to self-consciousness, and genuine ethicality, it may be seen as kind of the only key with the potential to unlock it.
    Not sufficient, but needed. Maybe.

  62. @jilles dykstra

    The human psyche’s core is not intelligence (that is the “calculator” part) but will.
    Will is the higher authority. The other faculties defer to it. When their insight/findings/hypotheses go together with will, they are approved, otherwise they are evacuated (from the conscious at the least).

    Intelligence and the other cognitive faculties of the mind are like light-shedding instruments.
    They shed light, but the light’s colour is set not by them but by the person’s ego’s, his will’s, colour.

    Touring didn’t get there were people whom one couldn’t reason with. I doubt there are any one can reason with.
    Touring was more intelligent than I am, but he most likely had not gone through approaching hundreds of women, and posting on tens of men-crowded Internet forums.

  63. Because East Asians are smarter than whites.

    Not at the tail ends. Also, Asian intelligence(and emotions) is more geared for learning, memorizing, and mastering than being original and ingenious. There is less spark. It’s like there can be two objects with equal amounts of burnable material, but one is more combustible than the other. So, even if Asians have equal intelligence or slightly higher intelligence than whites, their intelligence(due partly perhaps to emotional tendency and racial personality) is less likely to catch fire. Notice there are many Asians in classical music where the emphasis is on learning and mastery. There are fewer Asians in the ingenuity of music, creating something new out of the blue.

  64. No pain, no gain! The white man won’t be free until he is able and willing to go through self-sacrifice to rightfully reassert his place in the hierarchy of nations… will he or will he talk, talk and talk until he is blue in the face? It’s time for action!

  65. Antiwar7 says:

    What if, instead of genetics being the major cause, it could be poverty which randomly but with a higher mean generates mental deficits. And poverty is highly heritable, it seems.

    Because aren’t there studies of the sort like: Country A went from poor and low IQ to rich and high IQ? Various Asian Tigers, perhaps?

  66. Pandour says: • Website

    Greetings from Croatia,Mr. Unz.Your site is one of only six I regularily visit.The average IQ in Croatia,according to brainstats.com, in 2018 is 90. or 17th in world rankings.It would be higher if not for the mass murder carried out from May to September 1945 by the Yugoslav predominantly Serb communists.During that period,at least 200.000 Croats were murdered,including many of the best and brightest.Tens of thousands had to flee abroad causing a huge brain drain.Mass killings took place up to 1951.Many have heard of the Katyn Woods where 4,500 Polish officers were murdered.I doubt I can find more than a dozen people in Western Europe who have heard of the Macelj Woods where during a five-day period the communists killed at least 11,000 Croatian POWs and civilians.The orchestrator of the massacres,the commanderof the Krapina district OZNA -the secret police modelled on the NKVD-died in his bed several years ago in a stolen villa in the posh at the ripe old age of 96.He personally killed,amongst others 25 Catholic priests .As late as 1953. he killed 13 prisoners in the Krapina prison.Due to the war,Croatia was never able to carry out decommunnisation and lustration.As a result the reds stillremain in power and control the media,economy…Communism has for the most part killed national consciousness.I find it amusing when Croats are portrayed as ultranationalists.For the most part,thats not the case,due to decades of Serbianization.Ironically,if not for the war,Croats as a people would probably have disappeared in about a decade.The sons and daughters of the red murderers rule the country.The reds in Croatia were and are the worst communists in Erope.History is still being massively falsified,case in point the alleged 80.000 plus victims of the Jasenovac concentration camp.There were in fact around 30.000.I am at present compiling a nominal list of Jewish survivors from Zagreb.At least 70 per cent of the 10.750 Jews survived.Numerous Jews served in the NDH government,such as Ivo Kosky and many served in the NDH armed forces.The communists killed many Croatian Jewssuch as Rudolf Crnić the father of CroatianSupreme Court preident Jadranko Crnić.

  67. onebornfree says: • Website
    @jacques sheete

    jacques sheete says: “In fact, I find it nauseatingly simple minded to make a big deal out of easily manipulated and misinterpreted “tests” of any sort.”

    Same here. My original post with the Taleb quotes was merely to try to get people to question their assumptions, and the assumptions of the article itself.

    Personally I don’t care one way or the other if IQ measurement tests are or are not deemed “scientifically valid” [by whomever].

    However, if I assume for the sake of argument that :

    1] the assumptions of this author [MacDonald] and people such as Watson, Molyneux, Charles Murray [the “Bell Curve” author] etc. etc. are all correct – that is, that IQ measurement is accurate and valid if and of itself,

    and….

    2] that it can then be generally used to accurately determine IQ vis a vis the race of the person [presumably by simply determining/assigning a race designation to persons ]……………..

    then the question for me is :

    what are these people [Watson, Molyneux, Charles Murray etc. etc. really implying to be the steps “we” must all somehow take in light of those 2 allegedly irrefutable “truths”?

    I have no problem with a private individual in their private social life discriminating/ associating with others on the basis of race [or sex or whatever], or with a business owner privately choosing to hire or not hire persons based on race/sex because they already believe in the validity of the race/IQ correlation argument [ or even just because they “hate all blacks” or all jews, or whomever.]

    If the business owner is consistently wrong in their assumptions about the supposed race/IQ correlation then their business will presumably suffer for not employing suitably intelligent persons, seems to me.[ Well, “tough shit” as they say , the market always wins in the end 🙂 ].

    However, what I think being subtly implied by all those sold on the race/IQ correlation, is very different – they’re all about getting the government involved in ultimately deciding both actual IQ standards and testing procedures, and also of it being in charge of who lives wherever , who can associate with whom, and who can and cannot hire/fire what type of person.

    Even the former anarchist Molyneux appears to be guilty here of implying a government-based final “solution” [ mostly via government restricted immigration, it seems].

    And, as I’ve said before here and elsewhere, for various reasons, government solutions never work [at least not in the way fantasized], as should be perfectly clear to anybody paying attention and with their eyes actually open.

    But no one wants to hear that- they want to continue with their own little “government works” fantasies.

    But as you well know, the race/IQ question is ultimately about the consistent distraction of the proletariat, “divide and conquer”; basically the good old “Hegelian dialectic”, an essential ingredient for the maintenance of political power over the serfs/slaves, i.e. the eternal “boot on the neck” .

    “The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it’s profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater.” – Frank Zappa

    And so it goes…

    Regards, onebornfree
    The World’s Biggest, Most Dangerous Scam Is…The “Government Solutions Work” Scam:
    http://onebornfree-mythbusters.blogspot.com/2018/09/the-worlds-biggest-most-dangerous-scam.html

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  68. Anon[384] • Disclaimer says:

    Various Asian Tigers, perhaps?

    They are more like Asian pandas and Asian beavers. Asian men have lost all pride and confidence by globalist manhood standards. And feminism has take jobs from men in East Asia. And propagation of homo-propaganda has convinced even non-homo Asian boys to dress up and act like soyboys. So, Male Asia is the Asian panda. If Asian males have no global value in manhood territory, Asian females have high value in womanhood territory, and they know this. This makes them despise men of their own race and look forward to mating with non-Asian men. This means Female Asian is the Asian beaver.

    Asian Tiger was when Asian men and Asian women were one. A wedge has been driven between the two.

  69. @El Dato

    yes, this is probably the reality of it. He expected an insanely high score, but only got a very high score so the test must be wrong.

    • Replies: @Stan d Mute
  70. JLK says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    The IQ debate is worthless. So, just two objections. Obsession with (collective) IQ is weird. Evidently, a functioning modern civilization or human collective has not much to do with bare IQ. Well known examples: Mongolia- IQ 101 Lithuania- IQ 91

    National or individual IQs don’t mean much unless effective legal, governmental and economic systems are in place that allow smart people to percolate up into the right positions and not have the fruits of their labor stolen. The incredible success of the marriage of Chinese intelligence/work ethic and the British legal and banking system in Hong Kong is a good example. There were probably a few geniuses among the slaves who built the pyramids, but it didn’t do them much good.

    By the way, it’s hard to believe that Lithuania has a 91 IQ, when Estonia is at 99.

    Theirs was a different type of intellect. I think that neuroimagining in past few years has shown that mathematicians’ brains, when solving problems, work basically with numbers (whichever the level of abstraction), while other types of highly concentrated brain activity are more evenly spread across brain (or this area is not yet fully explored?). Perhaps something to do with words? Dunno.. https://www.livescience.com/54370-math-brain-network-discovered.html (this is partially wrong since Einstein was not a great mathematician, nor was his thinking “mathematical”, to be nitpicking)

    Einstein was a high spatial. Most IQ tests overweight verbal ability relative to math and spatial, and the SATs leave spatial out altogether. There is growing evidence that spatial is the most important of the three for many types of analytical thinking, from chemistry to politics.

    To put it simply: blacks are irredeemably aggressive, destructive

    The problem seems to be largely limited to a certain lower fraction of young males.

  71. HdC says:
    @jilles dykstra

    …”Alan Turing, the inventor of the programmable computer, “…

    I don’t think so, neither does wiki.

    Jilles, please search for Conrad Zuse and Z1 computer, the first programmable computer built in 1935 -1936. HdC

  72. AaronB says:

    IQ is interesting to people who are insecure about their intelligence and need an official stamp to reassure them.

    Generally, East Asian countries seem very little interested in the topic – they are too busy just building up their countries. Jews seem very little interested in the topic as well.

    In America, alt-right type whites are intetested in IQ, and maybe some East Asian immigrants – who sometimes experience intellectual insecurity in the US, surrounded by elite whites and Jews.

    Taleb points out that no mathematician knows his IQ – basically, anyone actually performing competently in the world is uninterested on the topic.

    The people I have known who are interested in IQ, were con men and insecure types, and people without real world evidence of intelligence.

    By privileging an abstract figure over concrete accomplishment, IQ clearly lends itself easily to use by con men.

    The importance of IQ to certain types of people has to be understood psychologically. That it is not scientific or a valid construct has been demonstrated. But it will always appeal to a certain type of person – what I call the “middle class” of the intellectual world. Middle classes are notorious for being most affected by status anxiety.

    The alt right is composed of people who are a little brighter than average but not very bright – that has defined their experience of life and their status in the world. They then project this feeling onto the world at large. The alt right sees whites as the intellectual “middle class” of races, whereas an intellectually elite white would easily perceive that this is a projection of a feeling by a certain kind of white.

    But the alt right is happy by this middle class status, because it mirrors his experience of life, and reassures him that he is at least not on the bottom.

    The alt right is composed of people who are happy that they are at “least not on the bottom”.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @eah
    , @Stan d Mute
  73. Okechukwu says:

    Does Watson have any actual scientific evidence to support his assertions? Anybody can make unsupported claims.

  74. Kevin MacDonald

    You and Jared Taylor would have waged a much more effective battle against the enemy for the past ten years if you both said in public unrelentingly:

    “Shut all LEGAL ASIAN IMMIGRATION TO AMERICA DOWN TO O..devolve the Working Class Native Born White American of Appalachia for careers in Silicon Valley….Silicon Valley does not belong to GREATER CHINA…GREATER INDIA……”….Imagine the reaction of the White Liberal Greedy Cheating Class if you had…massive anti-white-brain-spasms…..

    So many years wasted on IQ Test Score Psychometric-the-eyes-glaze-over-jibber-jabber….

  75. Eagle Eye says:
    @onebornfree

    propaganda put out by any state anywhere in the world most likely consists of 100% lies supported by simple computerized video fabrication.

    Does GPS exist, or is it merely a “simple computerized … fabrication”? Can you think of a simple experiment to ascertain for yourself whether GPS is real?

    China has a regional GPS system known as Beidou. Russia’s GLASNOSS is available worldwide. Combined GPS-GLASNOSS receivers are available in the U.S.

  76. @lavoisier

    Hmmmm,

    Her work was seminal in providing that foundation.

  77. @JLK

    I won’t go into details why IQ ideology is simplistic. Too complex a subject …

    By the way, it’s hard to believe that Lithuania has a 91 IQ, when Estonia is at 99.

    Mongolia
    https://brainstats.com/average-iq-in-mongolia.html

    Lithuania
    https://brainstats.com/average-iq-in-lithuania.html

    Estonia
    https://brainstats.com/average-iq-in-estonia.html

    Why & how challenge the figures?

    Einstein was a high spatial. Most IQ tests overweight verbal ability relative to math and spatial, and the SATs leave spatial out altogether. There is growing evidence that spatial is the most important of the three for many types of analytical thinking, from chemistry to politics.

    This is debatable. For instance, there is no reason to believe that great arithmeticians have had extremely high spatial component; also, “words people” like Aristotle seem not to had possessed highly developed spatial component (Aristotle was actually averse to anything mathematical, which can be said for many philosophical “words peop0le”). Anyway- why take IQ to be a single quantity if it is comprised of such different types of intelligences?

    The problem seems to be largely limited to a certain lower fraction of young males.

    No, in all likelihood that what they, statistically, are: https://menghublog.wordpress.com/2012/05/01/morality-and-abstract-thinking-how-africans-may-differ-from-westerners-gedaliah-braun/

    Morality and Abstract Thinking : How Africans may differ from Westerners – Gedaliah Braun

  78. nsa says:

    Watson fagged out and bent over for the VisMins and their jooie overlords…….but not so for that other Nobel recipient, William Bradford Shockley, co-inventor of the transistor and founder of what is now known as Silicon Valley. No sentimentalist, he dedicated the second half of his life to advancing his ideas as to race, IQ, and eugenics. All the great early tech giants including Fairchild Semi were spinoffs of his original Shockley Semiconductor company. Silicon Valley eventually disowned their founder, as did all of the JudenPresse and what passes for enlightened society……but right to the end, he was defiant and unrepentant, vigorously defending his ideas against a wall of censorship, dishonesty, and vitriolic antagonism. Compare the great unapologetic thinker and scientist Shockley to that faggy little whiny weasel Watson begging for forgiveness for stating the obvious ………

    • Agree: Stan d Mute
    • Replies: @m___
    , @bj
  79. m___ says:
    @nsa

    Compare the great unapologetic thinker and scientist Shockley to that faggy little whiny weasel Watson begging for forgiveness for stating the obvious ………

    Indeed.

  80. JLK says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    This is debatable. For instance, there is no reason to believe that great arithmeticians have had extremely high spatial component; also, “words people” like Aristotle seem not to had possessed highly developed spatial component (Aristotle was actually averse to anything mathematical, which can be said for many philosophical “words peop0le”).

    It is pure guesswork to estimate the IQ of historical figures, and even more speculative to break the guess down into verbal, math and spatial components.

    Anyway- why take IQ to be a single quantity if it is comprised of such different types of intelligences?

    General intelligence or g, determined decades ago using a technique called factor analysis, is widely agreed by experts to be the most objective measure of pure intelligence. It is a mathematical construct modeled by comparing the results of various tests. There is a near consensus on it among psychometricians, but there is a black hole in the literature on the obvious question of how closely each of verbal, spatial and mathematical correlates with g. Jensen has suggested that verbal and spatial are closer to g than mathematical. I suspect that spatial is more highly correlated with g than verbal, just because of how squirrelly they are acting, but I can’t prove it.

    This is important, because there was a strong assumption in early intelligence testing that verbal is more salient as a measure of intelligence than math or spatial. I remember wondering back in the early ’80s why they doubled the verbal and added the math to identify National Merit Semifinalists, and found some fine print within the materials that “verbal is more important.” There are significant political implications, because overweighting verbal boosts female, and even more particularly, Jewish scores. Omitting a spatial section on the SAT hurts Asians and probably some elements of white non-Jewish men. That makes recent Asian success on the NMSQT even more compelling…they are doing it with two hands tied behind their backs, with the omission of spatial and the double-weighting of verbal. If they had an SAT-spatial, a lot of the Purdue kids might be studying in Ithaca or New Haven instead.

    Too complex a subject …

    Yes, it is complex. It’s probably a mistake to be treating IQ distributions for groups as purely Gaussian, particularly diverse groups like “whites” or African-Americans who are actually mixed-race. The true distribution is probably a complex superimposition of several different curves. Unz seemed to allude to this when he pointed out that various groups like Irish-Americans score above the generic white 100, but he didn’t actually say it.

    Even Ashkenazis may not be homogeneous enough to model on a strict gaussian Bell Curve. There was a big cultural and achievement gap between German Jews and Eastern Jews for a long time. Some of the former agreed with the Nazis that Polish Jews should be kept out.

    • Replies: @jack daniels
    , @m___
  81. Anon[225] • Disclaimer says:

    The great irony of all this is that supremacism made a comeback via Jews and blacks.

    After all, how was white supremacism invalidated? By proving that all peoples are equal in talent and ability?
    NO, it was by showing that blacks are better than whites in sports. Joe Louis and Jesse Owens didn’t demonstrate parity with blacks in sports. They demonstrated superiority.
    And what did Jews do to smash white supremacism? Did they prove they are equal in intelligence with whites? No, via men like Einstein and Oppenheimer(and all those Nobel prize winners), they proved they are smarter than whites.

    Today, much of the Western Message is ‘blacks are superior in sports, sex, and rap’ and ‘Jews are superior in wit, gab, and intellect’, and that is why whites must cuck to those special groups.

    When one kind of supremacism(that of whites) is dethroned by demonstrations of the superiority of other races, the result is not egalitarianism but neo-supremacism, such as that of Jews and blacks.

    Indeed, what Jews fear most is not the re-emergence of white supremacism(along lines of Nazism or KKK-ism) but the awakening of white survivalism on the basis that whites need protection from superior Jewish mind and superior black muscle.
    After all, when whites are integrated with Jews, Jews use superior wit to gain elite power and to subvert white identity and interests. When whites are integrated with blacks, black guys emasculate white guys by bullying them & beating them up and then sexually conquer white girls infected with jungle fever. Cuckery is psycho-sexual meta-slavery of the white race.

    So, the emerging white consciousness isn’t predicated on white superiority over Jews and blacks but white vulnerability vis-a-vis those two groups with special advantages: Jews with brains, blacks with brawn.

    Whereas white supremacism of the past had an unpleasant element of arrogance and contempt, the emerging politics of white survivalism via white liberation is NOT about whites boasting about how awesome they are but about admitting how vulnerable and endangered they are in relation to the two groups, Jews and blacks, who have certain superior abilities over whites. Therefore, in order for European folks to have white security, they deserve white emancipation from Jewish and black supremacisms.

    Ideally, Jews should identify as white and work with fellow whites to maintain a successful Western Order, but too many Jews seem hellbent on Jewish supremacism than on pan-white-ism that includes Jews and Europeans.

    • Replies: @jack daniels
    , @Anon
    , @anarchyst
  82. @jacques sheete

    If you want to imagine that blacks, on average, are as peaceful, intelligent and industrious as Japanese or Danes that’s your business.

    The rest of us will be over here while you and the other window lickers can sit on the short bus.

    • Agree: Stan d Mute
    • Replies: @Okechukwu
  83. Agent76 says:

    For those having a brilliant mind like most that I have met lack common sense altogether.

    Feb 27, 2016 Why Your Nation’s IQ Matters

    Over the last several decades, economists and psychologists have documented the many ways in which an individual’s IQ matters. But, research suggests that a nation’s IQ matters so much more.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  84. @jacques sheete

    It never ceases to amaze me the extent of their control, and yet some Jews are themselves unaware of it. I grew up around some of the less affluent Jews you’ll meet and I really doubt they felt they had overt or covert control of anything much. Perhaps today they would take a different view.

  85. General intelligence or g, determined decades ago using a technique called factor analysis, is widely agreed by experts to be the most objective measure of pure intelligence. It is a mathematical construct modeled by comparing the results of various tests. There is a near consensus on it among psychometricians, but there is a black hole in the literature on the obvious question of how closely each of verbal, spatial and mathematical correlates with g. Jensen has suggested that verbal and spatial are closer to g than mathematical. I suspect that spatial is more highly correlated with g than verbal, just because of how squirrelly they are acting, but I can’t prove it.

    This is important, because there was a strong assumption in early intelligence testing that verbal is more salient as a measure of intelligence than math or spatial.

    I know the history of g, and it is, in my opinion, in Pauli’s words- not even wrong. It is perfectly understandable that psychometric investigations try, following the prescribed procedure, reach deeper conclusions on functioning of the human mind (let’s call it that).

    But it is so unsatisfactory that I don’t think it has reached a serious scientific status. It is, metaphorically, a mixture of Aristotelian physics & psychoanalysis. There is “something in it” which cannot be dismissed out of hand; on the other hand, the whole area is murky, slippery, with too many holes in it & conceptually fuzzy, not unlike both weak & strong formulations of many worlds interpretations of quantum mechanics. Pro & con arguments make sense if one accepts general premises of the whole approach; if not, there is not much to discuss.

    The same-or more- goes for personality theories – perhaps due to the extreme complexity of the subject.

    • Disagree: JLK
  86. Gordo says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    While there are numerous Indian top physicists, mathematicians, engineers, excellent schools, … no such thing among blacks.

    Caste system.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    , @Lin
  87. Anon[128] • Disclaimer says:
    @onebornfree

    Typical negro intellectualism. Thanks for reminding us of what we knew. Your side is doomed. “Regards”.

    • Replies: @onebornfree
  88. @JLK

    Most mathematical intuition is spatial. The rest of it seems verbal. Someone like Aristotle would do just fine when it comes to laying down axioms and proving theorums: he is credited with inventing formal logic. He might have lacked the geometrical intuitions of Euclid or Apollonius. The real number system is a model of spatial relations extended like space itself in multiple dimensions. Time and spacetime behave like space with an added dimension. Anything that can be graphed is ipso facto spatial. Waves are modeled by graphs of rising and falling as if they were mountain ranges. It’s all spatial except for the formal niceties.

    • Replies: @JLK
  89. @Anon

    An interesting take on “supremacism.” However, Jews make more money and have more power than white gentiles, while blacks make less money and have less power. Blacks can vote, and that gives them bargaining power with the Jewish-directed “Rainbow Coalition.”

    Jews have an important weakness in the numbers department: there aren’t enough of them to win elections anywhere outside of Israel or a handful of cities. They have to overcome this with media influence and coalition building.

  90. Jews, Jews, Jews….this is boring. Of course they are over-represented in many fields, but so were, say, Italians in Florence from 1300-1600 (Dante, Brunelleschi, Michelangelo, Petrarch, Boccaccio, Machiavelli, Leonardo da Vinci, Galileo,…), or Germans from 1770-1830 (Hamann, Herder, Kant, Hegel, Euler, Goethe, Gauss, Mozart, Beethoven, Clausewitz, Scheele, Grimm brothers, Humboldt brothers,..) & later- which dwarfs all Nobels put together.

    During some historical periods, some groups are high achievers. From ca. 1850-2000 Jews have been super-achievers; from 1750-1945, “Aryan” Germans had been hyper-achievers. What is more interesting about Jews is that they so easily dumped their middle Eastern way of life, which sustained them for 2000 years & so enthusiastically embraced European culture- something we don’t see among Pakistanis in Britain or Moroccans in France.

    • Agree: niceland
  91. Anon[276] • Disclaimer says:
    @jacques sheete

    I fail to derive a point from your meandering paragraph.

    Second, forgive me if I snicker at your point keeping. I didn’t mean to give you the impression that this was an active persuasion exercise or that I believe that your opinions could possibly matter. They don’t. My writing here is for others to read, merely so that your views can be seen to be soundly refuted. You provide me with no competition in that regard.

    Superior IQ societies have always been morally superior societies, and in spite of any victim narrative on your or anyone else’s part. As people drift relatively closer to the IQ of animals, it is axiomatic that their morality decreases in complexity and integrity.

    Put any significant number of them in a small area and watch that play out with incredible predictability. See American ghettos to start. One Nazi Germany is infinitely and demonstrably more moral than any Black Ghetto in America, to use a polar comparison.

    Morality is the arena of logic. Without a high enough IQ to be able to approach logic, a group has no hope of higher morality in its theory and especially in practice.

    I’d rather you didn’t shut up and listen but shove off to another nation.

    If you remain here then, yes, of course you need to listen to your betters. They are your only hope of surviving the predicament that you are in. It has nothing to do with oracles, and everything to do with the fact that you are observably and irretrievably dysfunctional to the degree that your future is in jeopardy. We’d rather not “snooker at the simple”, but the simple will be treated as they beg to be if they decide to take your position in spite of their race to destruction that affects us all.

  92. @Gordo

    Indian civilization is one of great human civilizations (no need to expatiate on that- numerals, philosophy, sometimes art etc.) Bhaskara, Ramanujan, Chandrasekhar,…

    What about African (sub-Saharan) history?

    Domesticated animals? Zero.

    Agriculture? Zero.

    Cities? Zero

    Script? Zero.

    Anything else? Thinking, thinking…….thinking….

    • Replies: @sarz
    , @Wizard of Oz
  93. @onebornfree

    Haven’t you almost answered one of your own questions? Why spend a lot of money on government solutions which won’t work? Why try to make silk purses out of sows’ ears – expensively?

    • Replies: @onebornfree
  94. Okechukwu says:
    @Johnny Smoggins

    You mean the same Japanese that were bayonetting babies in Nanking?

  95. JLK says:
    @jack daniels

    The rest of it seems verbal. Someone like Aristotle would do just fine when it comes to laying down axioms and proving theorums: he is credited with inventing formal logic.

    Spatial gets used as a thinking tool all the time. Consider how we are led to visualize politics on a left-right axis, or how the Clintons “triangulated,” when politics actually has nothing to do with geometry. Or how Venn diagrams can be used to model overlapping political interests. Or the “right hand rule” in physics.

    I doubt that Aristotle was a pure verbal/low spatial. Deep ideas rarely come from such people, no matter how well they can dress up their presentation. That’s one of the dangers of the SAT-V overweighting, in my opinion. You’ll probably find a lot of vapid verbalizers in the social science/humanities departments of second rate colleges.

  96. onebornfree says: • Website
    @Anon

    Anon[128] • Disclaimer says: “Typical negro intellectualism. Thanks for reminding us of what we knew. Your side is doomed. “

    As I said before, “keep ’em coming,you’re doing just greaaaaaat” 🙂

    Regards, onebornfree

  97. Anon[202] • Disclaimer says:
    @jacques sheete

    Jacques,

    Without a high IQ you have no ability to perceive nor rate intelligence any more than a junebug can get inside the mind of the alley cat. Its a common low IQ fallacy to believe that “street smarts”, aka: environmental learning in the ghetto, has any correlation to IQ past the ability to learn at all. This is often assisted by the Black / low IQ propensity toward excessively social behavior. Your view is an ego protection mechanism and nothing more.

    It’s impossible to derive your intended points from your posted article. Try demonstrating a higher mental age and fully communicate your points.

  98. Anon[725] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    An intellectual superiority of Jews, especially when numbers are accounted for, is not born out in the group Bell Curves (especially when measuring specific White groups like Germans or Northern Italians), not in their resultant societies, nor in the breadth and depth of technology.

    People focus on Jews like Oppenheimer and Einstein because of combined Jewish and WWII propaganda. Most people, even Jews, are relatively low IQ.

    So, what we are actually talking about in terms of one group being “smart” is the extent and impact of their right-side long-tail.

    What those common center-bell-curve people fail to remember, because it is not propagandized by non-Jews, is that Einstein and Oppenheimer were working within the very large and complete scientific arena and knowledge base of non-Jews.

    Everything from the founding physics, to the electronics and electricity to the materials science, to the building science that housed their research labs, to the plumbing that enabled them to evacuate their bowels on-site. Almost everything that supported their work in that single project was due to non-Jewish men of European stock. In fact, your first red flag should have been your requirement to mention two men working on the same project to account for Jewish intelligence.

    And what did they give us? A bomb and nuclear energy. Okay, good for the Jews. That’s one. Sort of. Nuclear energy is a bit of a double edged sword, no? What else did Einstein give us? Unproven masturbatory theory that serves to keep gentiles running around in circles and, moreover, serves to create a theoretical physical component to the “everything is relative, goyim” Jewish bullshit. That’s quite a coincidence. The cure always comes with the next poison with them.

  99. Anonymous[178] • Disclaimer says:
    @AaronB

    I think they would happily be on the ‘bottom’ if they could do so among thier own kind.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  100. anarchyst says:
    @Anon

    It’s not “smarts” or “IQ” that gives jews an advantage over gentile whites, but is their rabid insistence on cultural and social cohesiveness, insularity and nepotism (but only for themselves) that gives them an “advantage”. This same cultural and social cohesiveness that is prized so highly by jewish interests is denied to gentile whites. Jews, to a man will fight to deny this same cultural and social cohesiveness to gentile whites that they themselves enjoy as it is a major part of the jewish purpose–the destruction of gentile white culture, which IS superior to any jewish cultural or social society. If jews did not possess this power, they would most likely be rag merchants, liquor merchants, or furniture merchants–nothing more. As I have previously stated, jewish success is based on cultural and social cohesiveness and insularity–NOT “smarts” or “IQ”. Once enough jews get into a position of power in the work world or education systems, they will hire and promote their own, even bypassing more qualified gentile white candidates.
    Jews have latched on to cultural cohesiveness and nepotism, as it serves their purpose exceedingly well.
    At the same time, jews pushed the concept of racial “equality”, (but only for gentile whites), backing it up with “civil-rights” and “equal accommodation” laws which are enforced by governments–but only against whites. These “civil-rights” laws are used as a “battering ram” against gentile whites to diffuse and fragment any semblance of gentile white solidarity and cohesiveness that may arise.
    A great reckoning dealing with the jews is coming. As gentile whites become more marginalized, the accusation of being tagged as “racist” or a “holocaust denier” is rapidly losing its “sting”.
    Increasingly, jews are more wary of being “called out” and recognized as “jews”. One can call a jew a shyster, shylock, bankster, criminal or ne-er-do-well, and it will roll off his back like water off a duck, BUT call a jew a “jew”, and he will recoil in horror, having been “found out”.

  101. iffen says:

    The backbone of the race denial movement was a specific radical Jewish subculture

    What, exactly, is the explanatory power of “Dem Jews what done it”?

    but that those “who have to deal with black employees find this not true”.

    I’ve pointed this out before. This is one non-random observation and is of no value and supports squat.

    I’ve also said that any sane society would cut Nobel Prize winners a little slack.

  102. Whitewolf says:
    @anonymous

    Noel Ignatiev stated a long time ago what the final solution to the “White problem” is.

  103. An actual scientist does real research and makes new discoveries. NYT calls it “scientifically unsupported.” Where is the logic?

  104. Mr. XYZ says:
    @Ghali

    Discriminating against a female–even if true–is not racism. Rather, it’s sexism.

  105. @Digital Samizdat

    You nailed it; and it’s becoming even more important with the latest IQ scam.

  106. @Agent76

    This was interesting, not much new.

    But what it does not do is make a case for the value of IQ over other traits. Here’s a predictor of work success — work ethic.

    That will even overcome IQ, if one can perform the tasks the work requires.

  107. AaronB says:
    @Anonymous

    Then why the obsession with IQ?

    No other cohesive ethnic group has any comparable interest in IQ. It obviously isn’t needed for nationalism or ethnic cohesion.

    It is obviously an abstract figure that is not needed as long as you are accomplishing things in concrete reality, and has become popular among some white people to the extent that the status of white countries has declined and concrete accomplishment has declined. It goes together with insulting blacks and Hispanics.

    The scientific validity of the concept is low, and its psychological importance obvious.

    • Agree: utu
  108. Anonymous[244] • Disclaimer says:
    @Rational

    I wish I was brave enough to always speak the truth, as you do. But my truth-speaking means that my children will also go poor & hungry. In this guilt-by-association witch hunt atmosphere they’ll probably also be shunned from college and jobs as well.
    If you do have children, young or grown, I’d like to know how you’ve handled or avoided repercussions to your children. I know the big picture is to build a better future for our progeny, but the future is too far away and we need to keep the roof over our heads in the here and now.
    If you are childless … well, that’s what the witch-hunters want, isn’t it?

  109. onebornfree says: • Website
    @Wizard of Oz

    Wizard of Oz says: “Haven’t you almost answered one of your own questions? Why spend a lot of money on government solutions which won’t work? Why try to make silk purses out of sows’ ears – expensively?”

    I have no idea what you are talking about. You must have misunderstood something I said. Please give a quote so I can [hopefully] see exactly how you reached your [currently] mystifying conclusion about what you think I’ve stated.

    regards, onebornfree

  110. @EiteCommInc.

    Everybody who denies that race exists supports affirmative action on the basis of race. [email protected]

  111. @jilles dykstra

    Using IQ tests in hiring is illegal in the US.

  112. @Bill Jones

    Hit enter too soon.
    See Griggs v Duke Power

  113. renfro says:

    I am unconvinced that genetics is solely responsible for IQ in various groups or races.
    Given that scientist cant even nail down the genetic wild card that producers true child geniuses .

    I think there is much more to it, it deserves more study than just race difference testing, a lot more to be investigated.

    The effect of early human diet on caudate volumes and IQ
    EB Isaacs, DG Gadian, S Sabatini, WK Chong… – Pediatric …, 2008 – nature.com

    Early nutrition in animals affects both behavior and brain structure. In humans, randomized
    trials show that early nutrition affects later cognition, notably in males. We hypothesized that
    early nutrition also influences brain structure, measurable using magnetic resonance

    [PDF] harvard.edu

  114. Thorsted says:

    Most people here debate IQ differences between ethnic groups and races but as social psychologist, Joanthan Haidt predicted in 2008 this might only be the tip of the iceberg. Family values, social organisation and sense of justice might all be partly based in genetics. So, the differences might be much more profound than IQ.

    There have recently been a debate between evolutionary biologist, Brett Weinstein and Richard Dawkins and one of Weinsteins claims is that culture can’t be separated from the genes because if “culture does something that is not in the interest of the genes the genes can shot down for that culture”. Dawkins rejects that likely because the implications will be profound. Weinstein is between the lines very controversial too. He tells David Rubin about his conversation with Richard Dawkins on culture and genes here; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ubwato2prgQ&t=889s

    • Replies: @JLK
  115. By-tor says:
    @JLK

    Slaves did not build the pyramids. Slaves would not be employed to do complex work involving geometry and math where fit and finish were of the utmost importance. Artisans, laborers and those skilled in masonry, however, would be.

  116. The notion that a white scientist is a racist because he produced scientifically-based findings which show East Asians are smarter than whites is absurd. If he were a racist he would manufacture false findings that show whites are smarter than East Asians.

    • Replies: @Whitewolf
  117. Druid says:
    @niteranger

    You’re wrong about Moslems being BIG slave traders. Arabs at the time were, Africans were, whites were, Jews were the biggest financiers of slavery. Your Moslem bias is pathetic. The prophet, founder of the Muslim religion, encouraged freeing of slaves by example.

    • Replies: @niteranger
  118. res says:
    @Realist

    Are there no multi-millionaires or billionaires that support real science by coming to the rescue of Dr Watson???

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/dec/09/russian-billionaire-usmanov-james-watson-nobel-prize-return-scientist

    • Replies: @Realist
  119. JLK says:
    @Thorsted

    Most people here debate IQ differences between ethnic groups and races but as social psychologist, Joanthan Haidt predicted in 2008 this might only be the tip of the iceberg. Family values, social organisation and sense of justice might all be partly based in genetics. So, the differences might be much more profound than IQ.

    Sure, and you can add traits like propensity to defer gratification and ethnocentrism. Its all part of the broader field of sociobiology. Check out E.O. Wilson’s books, he’s one of the great minds of the 20th century.

    Here’s a really neat example:

    https://scienceblogs.com/grrlscientist/2007/12/06/lovebird-behavior-nature-or-nu

  120. Pft says:

    This seems more about semantics to me. What some call race others call geographical differences in the human race due to evolutionary processes which proceed differently in different regions under different challenges from climate and other stresses. Some cultures breed more between cultures of other regions, while others were more contained with more inbreeding which account for some differences as well

    While all races have the same genes (no race gene), differences in the frequency of alleles in some genes due to evolution cause what have been called racial differences in different times

    Of course the bell curve showed there is significant variation within a “race” that overlaps others so one can not judge any individual by race

    As for IQ its an imperfect proxy perhaps more valuable as a group measure than individual, except at the extreme ranges of individual IQ (high or low)

    Newspeak simply changing the vocabulary. The problem is not with the labels or measures but are with how they are used

  121. @Druid

    Does Islam allow slavery?

    Yes Islam allows the enslavement of human beings. Though the Islam prophet Muhammad condemned the practice and encouraged the freeing of slaves, other passages from the Koran regulate and thus condone slavery. Here are some excerpts:

    Surah 33, Verse 52: ‘’Not lawful to you, are (any additional ) women after, nor for you to exchange them for wives, even if their beauty were to please you, except what your right hand possesses. And ever is Allah, over all things, an Observer.”

    [MORE]

    Surah 16, Verse 71: “And Allah has favored some of you over others in provision. But those who were favored would not hand over their provision to those whom their right hands possess so they would be equal to them therein. Then is it the favor of Allah they reject?”.

    Surah 4, Verse 24: “And also prohibited to you are all married women except those your right hand possesses. (…) Indeed, Allah is ever knowing and Wise.”

    Surah 23, Verse 1: “Blessed are the Muslims (…) that preserve their sex (from intercourses) … except with their wives and slaves that they own.”

    Surah 33, Verse 50: “O Prophet! We have made lawful to you your wives to whom you have given their due compensation and those thy right hand possesses out of the captives that Allah has intended to you …”

    Surah 24, Verse 33 : “Do not compel your slave girls to prostitution, if they desire chastity, to seek [thereby] the temporary interests of worldly life. And if someone should compel them, then indeed, Allah is [to them], after their compulsion, Forgiving and Merciful.”

    Black Africans were transported to the Islamic empire across the Sahara to Morocco and Tunisia from West Africa, from Chad to Libya, along the Nile from East Africa, and up the coast of East Africa to the Persian Gulf. This trade had been well entrenched for over 600 years before Europeans arrived, and had driven the rapid expansion of Islam across North Africa.

    By the time of the Ottoman Empire, the majority of slaves were obtained by raiding in Africa. Russian expansion had put an end to the source of “exceptionally beautiful” female and “brave” male slaves from the Caucasians — the women were highly prized in the harem, the men in the military. The great trade networks across North Africa were as much to do with the safe transportation of slaves as other goods. An analysis of prices at various slave markets shows that eunuchs fetched higher prices than other males, encouraging the castration of slaves before export.

    Documentation suggests that slaves throughout Islamic world were mainly used for menial domestic and commercial purposes. Eunuchs were especially prized for bodyguards and confidential servants; women as concubines and menials. A Muslim slave owner was entitled by law to use slaves for sexual pleasure.

    Over 28 Million Africans have been enslaved in the Muslim world during the past 14 centuries While much has been written concerning the Transatlantic slave trade, surprisingly little attention has been given to the Islamic slave trade across the Sahara, the Red Sea and the Indian Ocean.

    While the European involvement in the Transatlantic slave trade to the Americas lasted for just over three centuries, the Arab involvement in the slave trade has lasted fourteen centuries, and in some parts of the Muslim world is still continuing to this day. A comparison of the Muslim slave trade to the American slave trade reveals some interesting contrasts.

    While two out of every three slaves shipped across the Atlantic were men, the proportions were reversed in the Muslim slave trade. Two women for every man were enslaved by the Muslims.

    While the mortality rate for slaves being transported across the Atlantic was as high as 10%, the percentage of slaves dying in transit in the Transsahara and East African slave trade was between 80 and 90%!

    While almost all the slaves shipped across the Atlantic were for agricultural work, most of the slaves destined for the Muslim Middle East were for sexual exploitation as concubines, in harems, and for military service.

    While many children were born to slaves in the Americas, and millions of their descendants are citizens in Brazil and the USA to this day, very few descendants of the slaves that ended up in the Middle East survive.

    While most slaves who went to the Americas could marry and have families, most of the male slaves destined for the Middle East were castrated, and most of the children born to the women were killed at birth.

    It is estimated that possibly as many as 11 million Africans were transported across the Atlantic (95% of which went to South and Central America, mainly to Portuguese, Spanish and French possessions. Only 5% of the slaves went to the United States).

    A comparison of the Muslim slave trade to the American slave trade reveals some interesting contrasts. While two out of every three slaves shipped across the Atlantic were men, the proportions were reversed in the Muslim slave trade. Two women for every man were enslaved by the Muslims.

    While the mortality rate for slaves being transported across the Atlantic was as high as 10%, the percentage of slaves dying in transit in the Transsahara and East African slave trade was between 80 and 90%!

    While almost all the slaves shipped across the Atlantic were for agricultural work, most of the slaves destined for the Muslim Middle East were for sexual exploitation as concubines, in harems, and for military service.

    While many children were born to slaves in the Americas, and millions of their descendants are citizens in Brazil and the USA to this day, very few descendants of the slaves that ended up in the Middle East survive.

    While most slaves who went to the Americas could marry and have families, most of the male slaves destined for the Middle East were castrated, and most of the children born to the women were killed at birth. It is estimated that possibly as many as 11 million Africans were transported across the Atlantic (95% of which went to South and Central America, mainly to Portuguese, Spanish and French possessions. Only 5% of the slaves went to the United States).

    While Christian Reformers spearheaded the antislavery abolitionist movements in Europe and North America, and Great Britain mobilized her Navy, throughout most of the 19th Century, to intercept slave ships and set the captives free, there was no comparable opposition to slavery within the Muslim world.

    Even after Britain outlawed the slave trade in 1807 and Europe abolished the slave trade in 1815, Muslim slave traders enslaved a further 2 million Africans. This despite vigorous British Naval activity and military intervention to limit the Muslim slave trade.

    By some calculations the number of victims of the 14 centuries of Muslim slave trade could exceed 180 million. Nearly 100 years after President Abraham Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation in America, and 130 years after all slaves within the British Empire were set free by parliamentary decree, Saudi Arabia and Yemen, in 1962, and Mauritania in 1980, begrudgingly removed legalized slavery from their statute books.

    And this only after international pressure was brought to bear. Today numerous international organizations document that slavery still continues in some Muslim countries.

    Reports on slavery in Sudan, Mauritania for instance needs looking into. Recently, a former slave from the Nuba Mountains of Sudan, Mende Nazer, had her autobiography: “Slave: My True Story” published. Mende Nazer was an alleged slave in Sudan. She was made famous by her transfer to England to serve a diplomatic family.

    Mende Nazer reports that she was abducted and sold into slavery in Sudan when she was a child of twelve or thirteen (she doesn’t know when she was born). She lived in a village of the Karko Nuba in the Nuba mountains of Sudan with her family. The village was attacked one night. Mende fled with her family into the mountains.

    She became separated from her family, and when a man caught her and told her he would protect her, she believed him. She had already seen people killed in front of her. The man told her to stay with a group of children.

    Later, the raiders came and took all of the children to the town of Dilling, there the children were taken by families to serve as servants.

    Mende also reports that she was taken by a woman from Khartoum whom she served for six or seven years. She had to do all the hard work of the household, and sleep on the floor of the garden shed.

    She was never paid anything for her labor, and was frequently beaten. She wanted to leave, but had no money and nowhere to go, and was afraid to go to the police. The woman of the house said that she owned Mende, and called Mende her ‘Abda’, or slave.

    Eventually Mende was sent to London to work as a domestic. After several months Mende escaped and claimed asylum. At first, the Home Office rejected her claim in October 2002. In November, the Home Office overturned its decision and granted Mende asylum.

    http://www.africanecho.co.uk

    Where did you learn your history from…..Barack Obama

  122. Wally says:
    @jacques sheete

    said:
    “Their high IQ makes them especially successful despite their eternal victimhood.”

    Then why is Israel’s IQ not world leading? After all, they are overwhelmingly Jews.

    • Replies: @Anon
  123. Wally says:
    @Bill Jones

    said:
    “Using IQ tests in hiring is illegal in the US.”

    Tell that to the US military.

    Tell that to the US courts.

  124. @Donald A Thomson

    I am not sure where this analysis comes from. AA remains a benefit of whites, primarily females, and the same sex practitioners and to whites in general to the tune of some 70% or more when one includes asians and hispanics — both of whom prefer to be surveyed as whites.

    If you are talking about my comment. I have several responses:

    a. race is certainly a construct

    b. there are different races of beings, but not different races of human beings. There human differences skin color, size, proportionality, and any number of biological unique traits that are largely associated with distinct human beings who have adapted to particular environments, or who genetics because of interbreeding is insular – establish a consistent typing. That does not make them a different species. And when we are talking about race – we are talking about species types, not merely biologically consistent traits.

    c. I don’t have any evidence that everybody who acknowledges that humans are of one species by default support Affirmative Action.

    d. I am not sure of the point if they did. In the US we know for a fact that whites denied blacks regardless of character, intelligence, hard work etc. in favor of all manner of whites, with low moral standing, intelligence, etc. That was affirmative action on steroids for more than four hundred years to entire populations of several hundred millions.

  125. @Donald A Thomson

    d. I am doubt we agree what AA is.

  126. sarz says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    You have made the point without realizing it. Bhaskara, Ramanujan and Chandrashekhar were all brahmins.

    A while back someone mentioned in an article here that India is 200 or so distinct ethnic streams as opposed to one huge one for most of China.

    The caste system was a working system based on institutionalizing real diffefences. God knows if Western style democracy can be the basis for a new high civilization in India.

    • Replies: @Stan d Mute
  127. eah says:
    @AaronB

    Generally, East Asian countries seem very little interested in the topic – they are too busy just building up their countries.

    Maybe that’s because those countries aren’t facing an existential threat — they are not facing demographic annihilation via a massive influx of millions of low(er) IQ immigrants like white/western countries are: in Europe it’s primarily muslims and Africans; in the US, mestizos from Central and South America, including Mexico — and all evidence, including conditions in their countries of origin, clearly shows it is a lot harder to ‘build up’ (further develop) a country with that kind of low(er) quality human capital.

    By posting a lot of idiotic nonsense, you and a half dozen other abject morons have spammed this comment thread into a worthless joke — go away.

  128. Realist says:
    @res

    Thanks for the link, but the Guardian is a shit rag as demonstrated by many of the comments from readers.

    • Replies: @res
  129. m___ says:
    @JLK

    Seems plausible, from independent pathways, the impression that IQ transgresses and confines into a patchwork less simple as that along race lines, but can include territory, class, bloodlines (even of initial mixed race ancestry), seems more that plausible.

    “Better one smart nigger in the hand, then ten dumb whiteys in the air”. Going from there, by “breeding” homogeneous populations would take generations, but still, the outcome of say a past tenth generation, could beat far longer existing groups with a certain consistency. Very early twentieth century verbiage, still relevant. The thing is that IQ is a fleeing target, a generation comprises too much time for humans to be a magical tool, innate slowness of interaction with human nature is beat by social phenomena, and expressions of “dozer” tools. Things and processes define history for that matter. Humanity is catching up, historically, and is about to be out washed, because power tools’ of there own making, conceptionally insane, but structurally potent in derivatives, beating comprehension, goal thinking, projections into other then the short term future.

    DNA, and deeper down, reading and possibly manipulating human nature, using mega data to decide on the state of the planet and making decisions in the mean time to the rescue!

  130. @Donald A Thomson

    i don’t know of anyone who thinks race does not exist. The debate is and it’s not much off a debate — what defines race.

    If a Kentella in Norway marries Shewinzesie from Mongolia and they mate and have offspring, said offspring will not be frogs, cows, dogs or monkies –

    the resulting children will be human.

  131. Erebus says:

    A mere ~80 generations before Watt, the Scots (Picts) were living hand to mouth in half buried sod huts, occasionally painting themselves blue, working up an alcoholic rage, and running naked, screaming into battle against Roman formations. Were they less “intelligent” than the Scotsman of Watt’s generation? Or, than the Romans they battled and often trounced?

    Were the Britains who took up Roman civilization with gusto more “intelligent” than their pre-Roman primitive ancestors? Or their post-Roman quarrelling, subsistent agrarian successors, who reverted to a sufficiently primitive state to lose even the use of money in trade?

    If they weren’t, I’m at a loss as to how IQ tests measure anything useful.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  132. @JLK

    “Most IQ tests”….. Aren’t you ignoring the widespread use of Raven’s Matrices, supposedly culture fair. I am not sure what counts as a spatial test, though I assume Raven’s Matrices do even though they don’t involve 3 D manipulations which would seem pretty important if one wanted to really test innate spatial ability.

    The suggestion that “spatial is the most important of the three etc” would have surprised me before I read that the Flynn Effect has shown up most markedly in Raven’s Matrices rather than in crystallized intelligence tests of verbal ability.

    • Replies: @JLK
    , @AaronB
    , @res
  133. Anon[379] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    An antisemite like you ought to know more about Israel. It’s Ashkenazi population is a minority. Also, I suspect that there hasn’t been much enthusiasm for testing and publishing the results recently for obvious reasons.

  134. annamaria says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    “Math ability, like music ability (although located in different brain areas)…”
    — Do you have a reference to an empirical study, at least one, which supports this fantastic statement?

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    , @Anon
  135. APilgrim says:

    It is time to ignore, resist and block the Low IQ Mobs.

    They do not deserve a place at the table.

  136. AaronB says:
    @eah

    You are obviously not emotionally neutral on this subject, and so not capable of having an objective opinion.

    East Asian nations seem to have no problem remaining cohesive and unified without obsessing over IQ.

    It actually stands in the way of your desire to create a cohesive identity, because it is an entirely practical consideration. The tricky thing about practical considerations is that they can be debated and argued about, they can change, they are hard to definitively convince others of, practical solutions can be found for them (or hoped for), they can be ameliorated, and they can even be considered by some people as less important than moral factors.

    A cohesive identity can’t be based primarily on abstract practical considerations, but can only be rooted in organic development of a specific ethical life (understood as the Greeks did, to embrace the entire art of living well, adapted to local conditions and specific temperaments)

    You cannot use the language of abstract Enlightenment principles to construct a cohesive identity on – and IQ is the quintessence of an Enlightenment derived abstract idea.

    Such ideas are useful for building a “proposition nation” only – and such nations are based on the premise that human beings are primarily motivated by rational self-interest and social cohesion comes from rational decision making.

    • Replies: @eah
    , @MikeatMikedotMike
    , @JLK
  137. @Erebus

    Don’t get me wrong. I think IQ has value. It is important. But i would be careful that it is not over valued.

    Another measure to work performance success — reliability.

    When we talk about work success, I think we mean minus the political and manipulative disruptions that are designed to sabotage effective people who do work. Because I bet what trumps IQ, reliability, work ethic is workplace political skills. The powergames at games are no respecter of ethics, reliability, work ethic, skill, performance results or IQ.

    Otherwise we would not be having this conversation.

    __________________________

    I don’t have any issues with genetic research to IQ but I do have some misgivings about the current conclusions that are not supported by the evidence.

    Evidence that make it possible to predict a child’s IQ based on their genetic code alone.

  138. eah says:
    @AaronB

    You are obviously not emotionally neutral on this subject, and so not capable of having an objective opinion.

    Actually, I am — what I am not “emotionally neutral” about is the fact my country is being demographically destroyed — it is filling up with low(er) IQ migrants whom I must subsidize with my tax money — I do strongly object to this, since I don’t see myself as a goddamn slave.

    The facts about IQ, and how it correlates very well with positive outcomes in important life matters such as education, professional success, and maintaining good health are well known and indisputable — where is there room for ’emotion’ there?

    East Asian nations seem to have no problem remaining cohesive and unified without obsessing over IQ.

    WTF?! — blah blah — “LOL” — they ‘remain cohesive’ by not admitting millions of low(er) IQ migrants — hence they have no reason to ‘obsess over IQ’, because variations in intelligence within a population are accepted — it is only when there are recognizable, significant differences in socioeconomic status across racial/ethnic lines, demanding government remedies like AA and wealth transfer, that people start to ‘obsess over IQ’.

    Dude, listen up: you are a fucking idiot — your comments here prove that — like I said: just go away, and stop spamming the thread with your drivel.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @lavoisier
    , @eah
    , @eah
  139. @annamaria

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5618809/

    Music and the brain: the neuroscience of music and musical appreciation

    A highly significant finding to emerge from the studies of the effects in the brain of listening to music is the emphasis on the importance of the right (non-dominant) hemisphere. Thus, lesions following cerebral damage lead to impairments of appreciation of pitch, timbre and rhythm (Stewart et al, 2006) and studies using brain imaging have shown that the right hemisphere is preferentially activated when listening to music in relation to the emotional experience, and that even imagining music activates areas on this side of the brain …

    If it is a language, music is a language of feeling. Musical rhythms are life rhythms, and music with tensions, resolutions, crescendos and diminuendos, major and minor keys, delays and silent interludes, with a temporal unfolding of events, does not present us with a logical language, but, to quote Langer again, it ‘reveals the nature of feelings with a detail and truth that language cannot approach’ (Langer, 1951, p. 199, original emphasis).

    This idea seems difficult for a philosophical mind to follow, namely that there can be knowledge without words. Indeed, the problem of describing a ‘language’ of feeling permeates the whole area of philosophy and neuroscience research, and highlights the relative futility of trying to classify our emotions – ‘Music is revealing, where words are obscuring’

    https://www.pnas.org/content/113/18/4909

    Origins of the brain networks for advanced mathematics in expert mathematicians

    Thus, the overlapping activations to number and to advanced math cannot be explained by a shared component of numerical knowledge but indicate that high-level mathematics recruits the same brain circuit as basic arithmetic.
    ……..
    Our main goal was to explore the relationships between high-level mathematics, language, and core number networks. In mathematicians, we found essentially no overlap of the math-responsive network with the areas activated by sentence comprehension and general semantic knowledge. We observed, however, a strong overlap and within-subject similarity of the math-responsive network with parietal and inferior temporal areas activated during arithmetic calculation and number recognition
    —-
    The fact that these brain areas are jointly involved in higher mathematics and basic arithmetic may explain the bidirectional developmental relationships that have been reported between prelinguistic number skills and later mathematical skills, whereby intuitive number sense predicts subsequent mathematical scores at school (7⇓–9, 56) and, conversely, mathematical education enhances the precision of the nonverbal approximate number system (57). Educational research also provides ample correlational and interventional evidence suggesting that early visuo-spatial and numerical skills can predict later performance in mathematics

    • Replies: @annamaria
  140. AaronB says:
    @eah

    Ladies and gentlemen, the alt-right 🙂

    Yes, something can definitely be made out of these intelligent and self-controlled people.

    The revolution is in good hands.

  141. @BigDickNick

    yes, this is probably the reality of it. He expected an insanely high score, but only got a very high score so the test must be wrong.

    There appears to be a metric shit-ton of that going on in this comment thread as well, no?

    I feel like I’ve wandered into an alternate universe, too shell-shocked to even reply to most of the abject stupidity I’m reading (but also perhaps too busy adding morons to my “ignore” list)..

    • Replies: @BigDickNick
  142. @AaronB

    IQ is interesting to people who are insecure about their intelligence and need an official stamp to reassure them.

    As opposed to geniuses like yourself who fared poorly on IQ or IQ analogue tests, but are nevertheless certain of their own brilliance?

    Taleb points out that no mathematician knows his IQ – basically, anyone actually performing competently in the world is uninterested on the topic.

    Citing a complete jackass camel herder, especially when he’s either flat wrong or lying, isn’t an effective use of argument by authority. Every mathematician who’s been administered a SAT, ACT, GRE, GMAT, etc, has at very minimum an approximation of his IQ. Furthermore, many of them are identified young and fast tracked into gifted student programs in primary education and outside CA that identification is via WISC. Other proxies throughout primary education are the regular statewide assessments of student progress that typically assign grade level equivalents instead of scores (ie an 8th grader may test at 12th grade level on reading comprehension and math).

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  143. @Bardon Kaldian

    I won’t go into details why IQ ideology is simplistic. Too complex a subject …

    Right. Far too complex. For you.

  144. @Stan d Mute

    As opposed to geniuses like yourself who fared poorly on IQ or IQ analogue tests, but are nevertheless certain of their own brilliance?

    AaronB has, not infrequently, been annoying (mostly because of misojudaism)- but who are you to judge others who, in all likelihood, have a very different world-view where IQ is basically a small fry?

    “I thank God every day that I have been permitted to experience the reality of the image of God in me. Had that not been so, I would be a bitter enemy of Christianity and of the church. Thanks to this act of grace, my life has meaning and my inner eye was opened to the beauty and grandeur of dogma. No matter what the world thinks of religious experience, the one who has it possesses a great treasure, a source of life, meaning, and beauty, and that has given a new splendor to the world and to mankind. He has a living faith.”

    C.G.Jung

  145. @Rational

    I do not see it is “obvious” that there are IQ difference based on Race, but that said- Mr Watson and you and anyone else has a NATURAL RIGHT to say that and even believe it, but that does not make it so. What you do NOT have a RIGHT to is to prevent or impede any people, based on your beliefs, about their IQ, or other characteristic, from achieving the BEST they are capable of.

    I suspect the OBSESSION, and yes it is an obsession, especially with with younger White people, about the Intelligence of others ( Yes I am white, IRISH with a 140+ IQ) especially those whom Whites like to believe they are superior to and thus provide themselves an excuse to violate same and BOOST ones own EGO….”I am smarter than he or she is, so look at me”

    I am 78 years young and have found, during my life time, ones ability at being CREATIVE , having great CONSCIOUSNESS and respecting the RIGHTS of others to be much more important than judging their IQ so-called ability.

    Give me a GOOD person over a High IQ person anytime. I have met them both, in spades.

    Further WHY is IQ so important, considering Psychopaths have VERY HIGH IQ’S and WARMONGERS have low IQ’S?

    Think America and WARMONGERING, mainly evidenced among Whites

    Check History.

    • Replies: @Stan d Mute
    , @bomag
    , @JP
  146. @Bill Jones

    Using IQ tests in hiring is illegal in the US.

    But the wonderlic is legal.

  147. @eah

    By posting a lot of idiotic nonsense, you and a half dozen other abject morons have spammed this comment thread into a worthless joke — go away.

    Actually it’s kinda useful for building up your “commenters to ignore” list. I’ve added half a dozen to mine.

    Who knew Unz attracted so many feeble minded simpletons?

  148. Okechukwu says:
    @eah

    and all evidence, including conditions in their countries of origin, clearly shows it is a lot harder to ‘build up’ (further develop) a country with that kind of low(er) quality human capital.

    What we have here is an idiot that has never done any traveling.

  149. @sarz

    You have made the point without realizing it.

    That’s the thing with these low IQ jackasses, they’re always proving the opposite of the point they’re trying to make. It’s cute as hell when a little kid does it, depressing when an adult does it, and utterly annoying when somebody does it on a forum like this one where you expect intelligent discourse.

  150. JLK says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    As you pointed out, Ravens doesn’t test for things like 3D rotations. It isn’t exactly a spatial intelligence test, but it probably correlates higher with spatial then with verbal. Assuming that math, verbal and spatial are the three main axes of IQ, it is probably somewhere in the math-spatial plane.

    Its correlation with the general intelligence factor g is about the same (.7-.71) as WORDSUM-IQ. Other tests can come closer.

  151. AaronB says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    The Ravens is also most susceptible to the Flynn Effect – i.e it is heavily influenced by culture.

    This seems rather obvious when you look at the test, which depends on heavy exposure to modern society.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  152. @Bardon Kaldian

    That is an interesting quotation from Dr. Jung. I simply had no idea.

    Appreciated the reference. I will making reference of his perspective elsewhere.

  153. annamaria says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    “We observed, however, a strong overlap and within-subject similarity of the math-responsive network with parietal and inferior temporal areas activated during arithmetic calculation and number recognition”

    — The parietal areas are involved in music perception as well (Foster & Zatorre, 2010; Harris & de Jong, 2015). Moreover, empirical studies are quite clear about a vast network of brain activation for music perception and cognition. There is no need to loiter this forum with long quotations in order to show alleged expertise in the neuroscience of music and mathematics. As an exception, here for you is a sampling of references with regard to the emotional processing in music (Omigie, 2015)

    Increased activity in the parahippocampal cortex (PHC) in response to both sad and happy music (Mitterschifthaler, 2007; Green et al., 2008; Brattico et al., 2011) … a further role of this structure in dissonance processing and the emergence of a feeling of unpleasantness (Blood et al., 1999; Koelsch et al., 2006; Green et al., 2008). …

    … an amplification of activity in the inferior frontal gyrus, superior temporal gyrus, as well as the ventral striatum, anterior insula, cingulate, and orbitofrontal cortex, specifically during exposure to pleasant as opposed to unpleasant music (Menon and Levitin, 2005; Koelsch et al., 2006) …

  154. @jack daniels

    What about figure skaters and ice dancers, for God’s sake? They have timing, speed and balance, functioning at an impossibly high level, and they combine it, simultaneously, with artistic flourishes. Where is the quotient to measure that super-human ability? They are like little gods and goddesses on half-inch blades.

    • Replies: @Stan d Mute
    , @Okechukwu
  155. @Freespirit

    I am 78 years young

    And that explains everything. Who the hell thought it was a good idea to give dementia patients internet access? We just cut all the cords for my same age mother in law to prevent her from making a further fool of herself or worse.

    • Replies: @Anon
  156. @Endgame Napoleon

    What about trapeze artists for Sky Fairy’s sake? They soar through the air with the greatest of ease! Show me an IQ test that predicts for ability to do that. Hah! Those daring young men are obviously highly intelligent (at least until they fall and die)..

    Hey, this shit is pretty easy. If I was butthurt about being dumber than accomplished physicists I’d fit right in with the thread spamming crowd here. But I know and accept my limits, am in awe of and grateful for those whose intellect dwarves mine, and don’t spend my days getting butthurt due to narcissism.

  157. bj says:
    @nsa

    Dr. William Bradford Shockley discusses dysgenics with William F. Buckley Jr. on Firing Line, before he was disappeared down the memory hole by the winners of the culture wars.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  158. @AaronB

    Thank you for confirming my memory of the (to me originally) surprising fact that Raven’s Matrices are most subject to Flynn Effect. But I can’t agree about their being obviously most susceptible to exposure to modern society – especially compared to exposure to calculation and language use. Please elaborate.

    The obvious worry about all the tests of Africans, Aborigines etc is that they might lack all test sophistication, or even familiarity. I wonder how much prepping the testers of Africans do to overcome any culture deficit. That seems an elementary matter. I have no doubt at all that practise improves results on Raven’s Matrices. So competent testing would appear to require preparatory practice. That still doesn’t prove that there would be much of a societal cultural overlay factor on top of that.

  159. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @annamaria

    Your contribution is the only one to which the word “fantastic” applies (even if brain functions are more distributed networks than singly located computers). Coming from the Russian troll the name Lysenko springs to mind.

    • Replies: @annamaria
    , @annamaria
  160. @Bardon Kaldian

    Jung could have made Torquemada’s humanist sister feel better about Him.

  161. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @Stan d Mute

    Yes, as one who finds the health and fitness of the octagenarian body far too interesting I am conscious of my good fortune to have a good short and long term memory (i can even remember where I left the car two weeks ago and who sold it to me 20 years ago and more interesting things) and mental dexterity only hindered by fatigue so I share your concern. I also wondered what life course/career I would guess went with the style (including, one shouldn’t forget, the CAPITALS).

  162. Whitewolf says:
    @jamestommy

    All Whites are deemed racist at birth. It’s our original sin we must atone for in the religion of diversity. We can atone for it by virtue signaling our desire to see our race go extinct through mass non-White immigration.

  163. lavoisier says: • Website
    @eah

    It is rather absurd to compare the problems faced by the West from massive third world migrations with the situation present in East Asia.

    Japan, China, Korea are not dealing with millions of non-Asian Third World migrants flocking into their nations.

    White European nations are.

    To say that the Chinese are not dealing with these issues because they have better things to do is extremely dishonest.

    They are not dealing with these issues because they are not dealing with these issues.

    We are.

  164. lavoisier says: • Website
    @Bardon Kaldian

    “I thank God every day that I have been permitted to experience the reality of the image of God in me. Had that not been so, I would be a bitter enemy of Christianity and of the church. Thanks to this act of grace, my life has meaning and my inner eye was opened to the beauty and grandeur of dogma. No matter what the world thinks of religious experience, the one who has it possesses a great treasure, a source of life, meaning, and beauty, and that has given a new splendor to the world and to mankind. He has a living faith.”

    C.G.Jung

    Great quote.

    I live every day with the hope that I will find such an experience.

  165. @Bardon Kaldian

    Thank you for posting that extraordinary meditation on ‘Morality and Abstract Thinking”.

    Excellent analysis. Provocative conclusion. Truly insightful.

    https://menghublog.wordpress.com/2012/05/01/morality-and-abstract-thinking-how-africans-may-differ-from-westerners-gedaliah-braun/

  166. res says:
    @Realist

    Given the billionaire’s name it’s pretty easy to search and find something from a better source. Feel free to do so and post.

  167. res says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    There used to be a spatial test linked at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3186571
    but it’s gone now. If you are interested you might try emailing him.

    Turns out the Internet Archive has a copy: https://web.archive.org/web/20120214034644/http://psych.io/spatial/

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  168. AaronB says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    There is growing evidence that spatial is the most important of the three for many types of analytical thinking, from chemistry to politics.

    JLK is Asian. In general, most people on this website are simply concerned with promoting their own group.

    • Replies: @JLK
  169. JLK says:
    @AaronB

    JLK is Asian.

    Wrong. I just call them as I see them.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  170. bomag says:
    @Freespirit

    Yes, people are rude, but the facts remain.

    Think America and WARMONGERING, mainly evidenced among Whites

    I thought you were going to be nice.

    If you were caught in a warzone, would you head for the Latino division; the Black division; the Asian division; or the White division?

    Yes, yes; everyone heads for that division; especially liberal scolds. They usually shoot anyone who gets in their way as they scramble for a place.

  171. Anonymous [AKA "Ferrous"] says:
    @onebornfree

    Read Kevin MacDonald’s work exposing Stephen Jay Gould as an absolute fraud, the man who first brought this idea that “IQ isnt a real metric”. He wrote a book called “The Mis-measure of man” that has been pushed and lauded by the kinds of people that read Medium,l (worth noting that both Stephen Gould and Isaac “Biz” Stone [Stein], the man who funded the creation of Medium, are ethnically Jewish)

  172. Anonymous [AKA "commenter mike"] says:

    As far as I can tell IQ tests are little more than pattern recognition tests while I’d rather define “intelligence”as the ability to survive in one’s environment. Hence primitive man living in harmony with his environment in a sustainable way is certainly “intelligent”, and you can ask yourself how intelligent is civilised man developing ever more destructive weapons so that the culmination of his evolution is the ability to destroy the world at the press of a button.

    As far as intelligence tested by IQ tests goes something to consider is also racial demographic dynamics. While the average white IQ is higher than the average black IQ, as the number of whites declines due to low replacement rates while that of blacks increases, the absolute number of high IQ blacks will eventually be greater than that of high IQ whites. This could already be happening with subcontinental Indians relative to whites.

  173. @EiteCommInc.

    If i spend several hundred years barring one from the main, worse denigrating them to ensure they remain in place and then one day change my mind and pretend to be bewildered by their lack of performance —–

    Well, one doesn’t need an IQ above ten to figure out the long term consequences.

    Except the exact same pathologies can be seen in African populations running riot in Dublin, Ireland and Melbourne, Australia where there were no Jim Crow laws and no segregation or black slavery.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  174. @res

    Thanks. I am very tired at present and intending to sleep but I had a quick look at those rests and decided very quickly that the answers to the first two problems were both (c). That took me no more than two minutes and O would probably put 20 minutes into checking with a physical model before I invested money in the answers. Are those answers right?

    It is clear that there could be enormous training effects both in getting the right answers in one’s head alone and in speed of doing so. For the training I would make paper models.

    • Replies: @res
  175. Anon[317] • Disclaimer says:

    This nonsense will not end until the following is made crystal clear, politically correct = incorrect. If it was correct, it would not need a modifier. Accepting the wrong answer to appear virtuous, is wrong.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  176. annamaria says:
    @bj

    Thank you for the link.

  177. annamaria says:
    @Anon

    What has enraged you so much? The well-deserved critique of the neuroscientifically self-assured Bardon Kaldian who should have modestly written that music is about auditory processing and mathematics is about something different? And what is this curiously defined “singly located computers?” For a moderately knowledgeable person, the understanding of brain functioning as related to “singly located computers” has been abandoned a quite time ago.

  178. annamaria says:
    @Anon

    As for your surprising reference to Trofim Lysenko, a despicable ignoramus and ideologue guilty of destruction of Soviet genetics and ruining the lives of a number of outstanding geneticists, his name has surfaced in relation to new discoveries in epigenetics.

    Also, could you, Anon[436], do a syntactic analysis of the last sentence in your post?

  179. res says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Too bad the scoring appears to be broken in the archive version. I wonder if the author would be willing to put a working version up somewhere (and if his results ever got published)?

    I think those answers are wrong. Take a close look at the plus and heart for each case.

    It is clear that there could be enormous training effects both in getting the right answers in one’s head alone and in speed of doing so.

    I wonder. Perhaps up to a threshold? Not sure how high that would be though. I took the test a while ago and to some extent the early problems served as training for the latter.

    For the training I would make paper models.

    That’s a good idea.

    I think making it a timed test would increase the spatial loading. My speculation is that it is possible to use more V/M skills (e.g. working memory!) to substitute for spatial visualization given time.

    For anyone taking the test, be aware that question 6 (of 9) is by far the hardest. Don’t give up after that one.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  180. @Stephen Paul Foster

    Interesting point/question

    ( Put differently, could there be a potential mathematical genius walking around somewhere but with no interest in actually doing mathematics?)

    During my NS I met a man with negligible formal education, (Secondary Modern) who was able to give answers to any arithmetical problem instantly.
    When asked how he did it, he replied that he simply knew what the answer was. He was also apparently very expert at predicting other peoples reactions to situation they found themselves in. As far as I know he had no interest in being a mathematician.

  181. @jilles dykstra

    Alan Turing, the inventor of the programmable computer,

    Jiiles Dykstra

    Charles Babbage, an English mechanical engineer and polymath, originated the concept of a programmable computer. Considered the “father of the computer”,[37] he conceptualized and invented the first mechanical computer in the early 19th century. After working on his revolutionary difference engine, designed to aid in navigational calculations, in 1833 he realized that a much more general design, an Analytical Engine, was possible. The input of programs and data was to be provided to the machine via punched cards, a method being used at the time to direct mechanical looms such as the Jacquard loom. For output, the machine would have a printer, a curve plotter and a bell. The machine would also be able to punch numbers onto cards to be read in later. It employed ordinary base-10 fixed-point arithmetic.
    The Engine incorporated an arithmetic logic unit, control flow in the form of conditional branching and loops, and integrated memory, making it the first design for a general-purpose computer that could be described in modern terms as Turing-complete.

    Wikipedia.

  182. @jilles dykstra

    Therefore, for example, discussion with deeply religious people is not possible.

    Absolutely true! At least, since religion means the abandonment of the necessity of proof for belief, or abandonment of logic, there is no point in trying to convince religious people of anything by logical reasoning.

    we have the holocaust belief, the equal capacity belief, the migration belief and the CO2 belief.

    You may call these “religious beliefs” but I think their adherents are more susceptible to logic, data and the evidence of their own experience than the believers in the “traditional” religions.

  183. @Johnny Smoggins

    The exception is blacks, who are stupid, violent and aggressive and cause nothing but trouble no matter where they are.

    All sweeping generalisations are wrong.

    • Agree: onebornfree
  184. @jamestommy

    So, why aren’t East Asian scientific researchers reporting that East Asians have the largest brains and highest IQs of all the races? Why is it that white scientists are the only ones reporting this?

    I think you will find that most of the “American” professors with Chinese sounding-names are in medicine, archaeology, biology or the hard sciences.

  185. @Mishima Zaibatsu

    First let’s get the issues straight.

    The comment is about Affirmative action and the complaint about its impact. In other words, your random introduction of of events in Dublin or anywhere else has absolutely nothing to do with Affirmative action and it’s assessment of a means of redress. Your comment is a complete nonsequitor — has no link to the discussion at hand and as such is meaningless as to whether whites practiced as denying access to blacks in order to benefit themselves. Your attempt to interject some emotional unrelated dynamic is hereby rejected.

    Second,

    We are talking about the US. And i n the US the dominant population holds the lion’s share of riotous behavior, despite having created a system that denied others to benefit themselves. That is telling in that it supports that white skin is not in any superior. The level of violence and continuous violence – social unrest is owned largely by whites. The attempt to make modern events a primary exemplar of black behavior pales and fails in context of such behavior and events in US history. And what makes matter more damaging for dominant society is that behavior is not limited to the lower class struggles. And the reasons for such civil unrest could be for something as trivial as black kids playing on a beach or a black being hired or promoted.

    In the US black civil unrest has always been linked to social polity and practice to the whole, it involved: segregation, police misconduct, unfair housing policy,

    Your choice to change the subject is not only to unrelated issues, the content upon examination utterly backfires and demonstrates that despite the supposed higher IQ, morality, or superiority of whites they are prone to violent outbursts on any offense regardless of how superficial.

    Third,

    in every location you mentioned, the native populations engaged in crime, civil unrest and other manner of untoward behavior, even before blacks arrived. The Irish are well understood for thier “low brow, aggressive, and unintelligent” manner

    As for Australia — another poor choice to make your point. The entire island was founded as a penal colony.

    Finally,

    It’s a very strange conversation about intelligence when the primary assail is based on a small percentage of a given population as though it is representative of the whole. That is generally referred to as an overgeneralization and therefore fallacious. Sure, a certain percentage of blacks engage in criminal or uncivil conduct, but in the US that percentage to the whole is (and I will be generous here) 3-5%. And that percentage exists in very particular communities, not unlike similar behaviors that comprise white communities.

    ________________________

    And your history of social processes of black populations is painfully inadequate, if you think that societies you note did not discriminate against blacks. No they too had the own forms of preferences of whites over blacks. Even in Ireland, that is oft perceived as a state benign in dealing with blacks in their society.

    I am very fond of the Irish and Australians — however,

    Good greif,

    Both the Irish an d Australians would laugh at tour comment, even if they appreciated the misguided understanding of their history regarding color relations

    Australia, of all places —

    sincerely pained and saddened laughter

  186. @res

    I would like to get back to it. It suits my temperament**, unlike Chess problems – I suspect I am descended from Caligula or Nero. My instant trick was to note that on three of the pics the square would be at the bottom when folded into a cube but in one case it would not. On a moment’s reflection now that seems flawed unless one could add a precise relationship to at least one of the other symbols. Of course that discussion of method points to the certainty that some training would be possible. Compare pilots going through a printed checklist which would include their being told how to look at certain instruments.

    BTW do you think this test would really test the ability to do 3 D manipulations significantly more than Raven’s Matrices?

    **I used to love those “how old is the vicar?” or “how many of the monks were dead when the bishop returned?” puzzles, not least because I got the answer quicker than others. By contrast it was lucky that I was very fond of the female friend who could point to the Agatha Christie villain in half the reading time it took me.

    • Replies: @res
  187. @AaronB

    “East Asian nations seem to have no problem remaining cohesive and unified without obsessing over IQ. ”

    That’s because those nations are homogeneous. Establishing which group should be running things isn’t even a consideration. This isn’t hard.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  188. @Anon

    Just to pick a nice fat nit…. Your logic is bad. The word “political” is not added because the view or fact stated *is* empirically incorrect but because empirical correctness is, in the context, unimportant.

    So “politically correct” does not “=” “incorrect” – or imply or entail it. Your formulation should be something like ” ‘politically correct’ implies that the person using that expression is indifferent to the empirical truth of the facts stated or is accusing someone else of being either indifferent to the empirical truth or deliberately lying about it for political motives”. OK? It’s a pleasure 🙂

    • Replies: @lavoisier
  189. wagelaborer says: • Website

    Stepan Molyneux illustrates perfectly the assumptions underlying the arguments about IQ in the races. It is also expressed in the saying ”If you’re so smart, why ain’t you rich?”
    The corollary, of course, is ”If you aren’t smart, you deserve to be poor”.
    I have watched as the incomes of working Americans have fallen over the last 40 years. When I was a kid, blue collar workers made a good living, if they were unionized, and even non-union workers were paid a living wage.
    Starting in the 80s, there was a massive attack on unions and the Americans working in unionized trades, and wages fell for workers without a college degree.
    But workers with college degrees still had fairly good wages, and we were told that only Americans with college degrees ”deserved” to make a living wage. Hmm, why would that be? It seems to me that every person has the need for food and shelter, but that assumption was dropped in the 80s, because, along with the attack on unions, we started seeing homeless people living on the streets, for the first time.
    Now, we have people sold into permanent debt slavery to get a college degree, which is increasingly worthless and we have the rest of us arguing about which particular ethnic groups ”deserve” a chair in the increasingly desperate game of Musical Job Chairs we are all playing.
    I know too many intelligent white people who are desperate and unemployed to believe that a higher average IQ (if true) and skin color is some sort of Magic Ticket to a living wage. And I find it bizarre that the same people arguing that IQ is a necessary prerequisite to a decent life who have no problem with singers or football players making millions, while adjunct professors with PhDs live in their cars.
    The entire argument ignores the fact that our failed economic system has failed to provide a decent life for millions of citizens, white and black, educated or not, pitting us against each other in increasingly ridiculous ways.

  190. res says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Of course that discussion of method points to the certainty that some training would be possible.

    Agreed. My question is more about how much. And whether the training would just be a way of letting people substitute non-spatial skills for spatial ability.

    BTW do you think this test would really test the ability to do 3 D manipulations significantly more than Raven’s Matrices?

    I think so. Hard to be sure. The earlier questions respond well to looking for relatively simple relationships. For example, the plus and the heart for the first two. But even so it is necessary to visualize how the flattened cube folds. Finding the useful relationships is the hard part for those IMHO. Some of the later questions are harder. I am not sure exactly what makes them difficult. For me the difficulty seems to revolve around how symmetrical the shapes on each side are (blank, plus, circle, and square are completely symmetrical while heart, arrow, and triangle have four distinct sides) and how many repeats there are.

    So question 1 with 6 distinct sides 3 of which are directional is fairly easy. While question 6 with three pairs of shapes and only one pair being directional is much harder.

    I wonder why they did not include any shapes which have two discernable directions (e.g. line, rectangle, ellipse)–in contrast to one (circle etc.) or four (heart etc.).

    The form the flattening takes also matters. Contrast the ease of visualizing the crosses in question 1 with some of the others.

    See what you think after taking another look. It would be interesting to see a comparison of results for this test (designed to be difficult, I think, with a mean score of 3.64/9 for what I assume were mostly university students) with Raven’s APM.

    By contrast it was lucky that I was very fond of the female friend who could point to the Agatha Christie villain in half the reading time it took me.

    I have never been good at that. Not sure why. I have always wondered what people are cuing on and how much of that ability is thinking in a similar fashion to the author.

    P.S. The best test of three D visualization skill I have seen was this computer game (notable for allowing six degrees of freedom of movement): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Descent_(1995_video_game)
    I was never any good at that despite doing well on tests like the one I linked. That combined with comparing my ability at navigating off trail in rough terrain with that of people I know makes me wonder how much I am substituting g for spatial ability in the linked test.
    This paper might be of interest: http://jtoomim.org/brain-training/video%20games%20and%20spatial%20cognition.pdf
    Paper about training spatial skills: http://longevity3.stanford.edu/brainhealth/files/2013/04/uttal-et-al2013_malleability-of-spatial-skills-meta-analysis.pdf

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  191. @EliteCommInc.

    As the descendant of Irish Catholic and English convicts it only makes me smile indulgently when the facts of New South Wales’, Tasmania’ s and Western Australia’s settlement as penal colonies are still beaten up for fun, jibe or profit (my friend Bob Hughes did rather well out of “The Fatal Shore” in which real historian friends who read it tell me he chose to twist and exaggerate – in his characteristically lively prose – the myths that appealed to his famous but distant Irish ancestry rather than his descent from an Anglican clergyman… rather what one expects from Catholic atheists whose struggle has been more intense than for Anglicans).

    For jibe? Come to a major cricket Test in Oz between Aussies and Poms and hear the Poms’ travelling supporters, the Barmy Army, sing, to the Beatles’ “Yellow Submarine” tune “They all live in a convict colony”. I daresay Indian fans would probably be doing that today while India is having the rare success of beating Australia in Australia except…. most of the Indian fans are probably Australian residents and citizens! OT (even more) but it occurs to me that cricket has the merit of not unduly favouring any race’s physical characteristics. Maybe the US or Africa could put together a quartet of 6ft 10in superfast bowlers but so far Australia and other mostly white countries have produced fast bowlers to match or better the West Indians, and, anyway, the subcontinentals have shown the way to preparing slow wickets that suit spin bowlers…

    My short point, intended to help those who want to get Australian modern origins right, is that free settlers soon became important to the colony’s economy. Indeed, under most governors’ from 1788 to the end of transportation roughly 60 years later rehabilitation and emancipation of convicts was pursued actively so that the much more than doubling of population in and because of the 1850s gold rushes completely overturned the convict origins. While my mother and her sisters, born early last century weren’t told about deceased grandfather (a respected mayor and businessman) being the grandson of convicts, unlike living grandfather who was an immigrant bank chairman, the only reason for that was that Victoria and South Australia, in particular were most comparable from the 1850s to prosperous respectable parts of the English Midlands and Lowland Scotland – only even more prosperous and better educated. Mind you our deep north in Queensland even today has echoes of America’s Deep South which are, in the end, no more than a reminder that relatively uneducated people are likely to have some different attitudes from urban fashionista. The legacy of “blackbirding” – suckering Melanesian islanders into becoming indentured labourers/cane cutters – and lower class interaction with Aborigines, is still relevant for Queensland politicians but it would be completely wrong to compare it to America’s legacy problems from black slavery as if that would be meaningfully explanatory. And… numbers count. Sydney and Melbourne each have more than 5 million people or, between them 40 per cent of Australia’s population, and are growing fast, mostly from immigration. Another thought is sparked while on the website of the great campaigner for higher minimum wages – which would need to be enforced and would assist with the open borders immigration problem – Australia’s famously high minimum wage and legally enforced terms of employment** have led to serious MSM beat ups recently over various franchise businesses exploiting/underpaying cheap labour – typically, I guess, Indian students, maybe ones whose visas have run out before they have earned higher job qualifications. It’s a pity the South Sudanese kids and their Pacific Islander mates aren’t finding exploited employment serving Big Macs….Then crime reporters and shock jocks might have to find something seriously serious to report on.

    **Y’all, if you can’t follow the Norwegian prescription for doing good all round and propagating good thoughts, y’might look at the prosperity and virtue which 25 million people can exhibit by securing a whole continent that could feed 100 million with modern methods of production and has huge mineral resources that China is still willing to pay for handsomely – with not a little assistance in beneficence toward deserving Australians from Japan, India and anyone who builds or makes stuff. (Pure luxury: we can even export livestock to Indonesia and the ME and then lecture the recipients on how barbarous their people are who manage the animals last minutes). Now welcome here to join Chinese and Indians keeping up the national IQ so we can again, when necessary, go back to being one of the world’s most technologically innovative countries 50 years after the convict era ended. 🙂

  192. AaronB says:
    @MikeatMikedotMike

    Yet these nations have no trouble remaining homogenous without obsessing over IQ.

    In fact, most East Asians admire white countries and readily admit whites perform better than them in some respects, yet have no trouble maintaining their own cohesiveness.

    What’s more, Asians believe hard work is more important than innate talent, and their culture of hard work and accomplishment would be severely undermined by a belief in IQ – and it is striking that when whites had a “can do” attitude, they hardly cared about things like IQ.

    If Asians ever begin obsessing over IQ, it will mean their days of accomplishment are behind them, and a new fatalism has taken hold.

    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
  193. @res

    Thanks. I hope to get back to you, and this. I think the g substitution point has merit. Leaping sideways I am reminded of reading about Mandelbrot and his work and I suspect that he had a facility for visuo-spatial thinking which is different in kind from anything I have. (I am about 1 sd better than average I guess at the eye-hand coordination needed to read a moving ball and then hit it with cut or force to where my opponent is not but I don’t see that as translating into a mental manipulation of shapes gift – though it would be interesting to know if there is anything scientific on the question). BTW, I have a niece at one of the top Ivies after a paid for English education and am told by her white Tiger mother that she was tested as having a poor working memory and, though this might have just been her sister, dyspraxia which I had never heard of. Her sister always seemed disorganised and losing things but got A level results which will get her into Oxbridge so I wonder what dyspraxia means in reality. From the genes in common with me they could get a great deal of untidiness which a facile brain can subconsciously rationalise as it notes how difficult it would be to find more quickly the things which are now on the floor if I stopped using my smartphone and expended mental energy on putting them into some logical place. Nothing is all good. I like to think I am a clear thinker but too much precision is certainly not a reliable prescription for getting on with women, however smart they are. And that would probably be true even if one matched one’s pedantic accuracy with tidiness…

  194. @AaronB

    “If Asians ever begin obsessing over IQ, it will mean their days of accomplishment are behind them, and a new fatalism has taken hold.”

    If Asians ever start importing millions of people from other races into their country, the IQ obsessing will begin.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  195. AaronB says:
    @MikeatMikedotMike

    And yet, even without obsessing over IQ, they seem to have no problem not importing millions of foreign people.

    And in fact, arguments are beginning to appear in Asian countries that they should begin importing people for practical reasons – practical arguments that are similar to those used to justify not importing people because of the practical implications of low IQ.

    Practical arguments are a funny thing.

    Luckily, since Asians don’t base their group identity in practical considerations, these arguments aren’t gaining much traction.

  196. @Wizard of Oz

    That’s all very interesting.

    Doesn’t address the issue at hand.

    But suffice it to say, Australia via will, force, outside support mechanisms developed into a developed nation.

  197. lavoisier says: • Website
    @Wizard of Oz

    So “politically correct” does not “=” “incorrect” – or imply or entail it.

    I would have to disagree with your assessment.

    While the term may not equal incorrect, the term “politically correct” is often applied by individuals to statements that they perceive to be of dubious truth value and that therefore implies (for them) a measure of untruth.

    For example, the statement Islam is a peaceful religion may or may not have empirical truth value, but when someone describes such a statement as politically correct, they, at some level, are implying that the statement is not true.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  198. Lin says:
    @Gordo

    “As per a UNESCO report in 2016,
    –six million children in India between the ages of 6 and 13 remain out of the education system –while 47 million drop-out of school by 10th standard.
    –According the Annual Status of Education Report of 2016, 47.8% of students in Class V cannot read Class II level of text.
    –Further, only 32 percent of students in Class III can read simple English words and only one in every four students in Class V could read a simple English sentence.”

    https://www.nayidisha.com/rte-act-right-education-restricting-education/

  199. Okechukwu says:
    @Endgame Napoleon

    What about figure skaters and ice dancers, for God’s sake? They have timing, speed and balance, functioning at an impossibly high level, and they combine it, simultaneously, with artistic flourishes.

    They’re executing rehearsed and practiced routines. No high-level brain function required there. But a sport like basketball involves the processing in nanoseconds of commands from the brain to the body, subject to what the defenders present. That’s massive, super-computer level processing power. In much the same way, improvisational jazz requires much higher cognitive functions than sitting in an orchestra and playing sheet music.

  200. @Bardon Kaldian

    India- IQ 82

    While there are numerous Indian top physicists, mathematicians, engineers, excellent schools

    India- IQ 82

    While there are numerous Indian top physicists, mathematicians, engineers, excellent schools

    LOL. Typical retort. What is an average? What is a bell shaped curve? I don’t know. Hurr durr.

    Dancing Poop Teach India’s Poor How To Use The Toilet! [youtube.com]

  201. @lavoisier

    I don’t disagree and don’t think what I said was inconsistent with that.

  202. @Bardon Kaldian

    Have you forgotten Jared Diamond’s very readable “Guns, Germs and Steel”. from the 90s? I think Steve Sailer gave the starry eye’d Diamond a bit of a hard time but he did put forward some interesting facts, not least when comparing the fauna and flora available respectively to sub Saharan Africans and Eurasians for domestication. Your comment should have taken account of that. I think I recall also that the Americas were a bit short of the right kind of four legged animals. I wonder if the Maya, Inca or Aztecs would have had wheels if they had had draft animals.

    • Replies: @unpc downunder
    , @JP
  203. @Wizard of Oz

    But that anyone would even dare hint that Australia did not engage in whole sale discrimination against the blacks in their country immigrant or not is someone who is woefully misguided about Australia.

    That was the core issue, not Australia’s rise from penal colony to whatever your point was about becoming a developed state. The level and cause for violence by white Australians previously Great Britain’s criminal underclass — does not change that dynamic.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  204. @Stan d Mute

    Seems to be how social “science” works for the most part.

    A little off topic, but I recently had lunch with an ivy law professor and a guy who is getting a phd in sociology at the same ivy. They were talking about how in the california bail system ( which now uses algorithms to predict who should get parole and bail,) racist AI predicts black people are more likely to re-offend and thus is less likely to grant them bail or parole. I basically said “isn’t there an issue with calling AI racist simply because it returns the wrong result?” They then very condescendingly explained to me that it was because there are more police in black communities etc etc etc. Of course the data supporting this explanation doesn’t *technically* exist, but obviously because the result was unexpected it must be wrong.

    Literally the exact opposite of how science should work.

  205. JLK says:
    @AaronB

    East Asian nations seem to have no problem remaining cohesive and unified without obsessing over IQ.

    Enter 智商 into Baidu and see articles like this for yourself (use the translate function of your browser):

    https://baijiahao.baidu.com/s?id=1608200359349879223&wfr=spider&for=pc

    In the American primary and secondary school classrooms, Asian students will automatically be considered good mathematics and A+. Chinese students who took the American University Standard Test SAT found that the mathematics part is only one level...

    One out of three to be exact. Even the Chinese in China aren’t blind to what’s been going on.

    I think they’re ultimately good to be a good influence on our society when they get into leadership positions. Their heritage is an appreciation for harmony, and the Buddhist Law of the Golden Mean.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  206. AaronB says:
    @JLK

    I think they’re ultimately good to be a good influence on our society when they get into leadership positions. Their heritage is an appreciation for harmony, and the Buddhist Law of the Golden Mean.

    I agree with this – but I think modern Asians have departed from this excellent tradition. They are now in the will to power phase.

    I hope that changes soon – in the long run will to power phases are temporary.

  207. eah says:
    @eah

  208. anon[319] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    said:

    It’s a pity the South Sudanese kids and their Pacific Islander mates aren’t finding exploited employment serving Big Macs….Then crime reporters and shock jocks might have to find something seriously serious to report on.

    An IQ of >90 is required to operate a McDonalds register, so at the moment those ”kids” and their ”mates” aren’t candidates for ”exploitation” by McDonalds.

  209. Anonymous [AKA "Bourjoi"] says: • Website

    As for IQ. Could we try some other reasoning? 1- the human brain is an hominidae brain that evolved naturally in a natural surrounding to accomplish natural objectives. 2- it is an organ to live as much as the liver, the lungs or the heart and so on (Read, The Body has a Brain from Gustav Eckstein). 3- when we think it thinks it thinks about ways to live. 4- the hominidae brain is a social brain that for thousands of genetic generations evolved in small groups of 80. (Look at Robin Dunbar number) 5- if the brain think it has to learn to read and write in a dominating social environnement, it will learn to read and write. It will even learn to play the forte piano. 6- when you measure IQ, you measure the brain compliance.
    ;-))

    • Agree: apollonian
    • Replies: @apollonian
  210. @Anonymous

    “IQ” Is Patent Non-Sense, Suckers–Get Off It, Pleeeeeeez

    Observe all this truly moronic, utterly brainless nonsense about “IQ”: it’s founded upon the FALLACY of a perfectly “free” will, by which “choices” are made, etc., ho ho ho ho.

    But fact is reality is OBJECTIVE, in accord w. the mighty Aristotle, “master of those who know.”

    Hence reality is necessarily DETERMINED in accord w. absolute cause-effect, there being no idiot “good-evil,” which is for children and dogs. Everyone is a sinner, according to basic Christian principles, St. Augustine, and St. Paul. We all act NECESSARILY in accord w. self-interest, foundation of the science of economics (“Human Action”)–see Mises.org for expo.

    Thus “free will” stupidity and lies are founded in satanic extreme subjectivism by which philosophy reality is mere product of mentality/consciousness, making the subject to being God, the creator of reality–satanism, by definition.

    And this putrid (extreme) subjectivism is the very basic thesis of Talmud/Judaism (featuring “midrash” interpretation–see Talmudical.blogspot.com, RevisionistReview.blogspot.com, and Come-and-hear.com for best expo) and the “philosophic” -styled charlatans, like especially Immanuel Kant, the great grand-daddy of philosophic frauds and jokesters.

    “Good-evil” and “IQ” idiocy are just satanic lies by which puke pretend they’re “human” or more “human” than others, etc. Give it up, morons, u fatuous, scummy, lying filth, ho ho hooo ho.

  211. @Wizard of Oz

    In the second half of his book Nicolas Wade takes the work of Diamond to the next level. He includes both race and environment (and the interaction between the two) to explain why human civilisations have developed differently around the globe. That’s probably why his book has attracted so much hostility. He’s showing how limited his one-dimensional opponents are at explaining human history.

  212. Anonymous [AKA "Karl Pomeroy"] says: • Website

    I see nothing wrong with scientific investigation of the genetic origins of IQ scores, as long it is also stressed that IQ measures a narrow aspect of intelligence, that a single person (for example Mr. Styles, a friend of mine) can score 140 on one IQ test and 180 on another, that all races can produce geniuses, and that racial statistics are based only on the central peaks of broad Gaussian curves. It should also be stressed that there is a huge variation in the accuracy of IQ tests, and that many poorly designed IQ tests are dependent upon educational background rather than innate cognitive ability. It should in addition be noted that many brilliantly successful people do not have high IQ’s. While we[‘re at it, I would like to see a test that could measure, for example, the brilliance of Miles Davis. Such genius is not measurable. The reason IQ-genetic connections may be painful to people of certain races is that IQ is way over-stressed in our society, and therefore such findings can make intelligent and sensitive people of those races momentarily feel like useless human beings. Or maybe the problem is categorizing people in the first place, or even pretending IQ has any meaning.

  213. @EliteCommInc.

    I don’t know what discussion you are referring to when you posit a “core issue”. “Discrimination” is perhaps an anachronistic term. Aborigines were always small in number and powerless wrt the white population other than small groups not backed by the colonial governments. The early governors were typically Anglican evangelicals who appointed Protectors of Aborigines on the correct belief that no one had a clue how to integrate people from a hunter gatherer culture of small clans into a rapidly developing modern, mostly urban society.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  214. Indeed, I can’t think of any prominent race denial figures who are not Jewish.

    It’s a strange paradox. Jewish Americans are heavily over-represented in the professional classes, and they have earned this position. Prominent Jewish commentators don’t mind too much any accusations of ethnic nepotism, because these can be dismissed as crude anti-semitism.

    Instead it has become a taboo to suggest that the reason so many Jewish Americans earn their success is that their ethnic group has a higher IQ than others. This knowledge suggests that Jews constitute an ethnic overclass – an idea that is bound to make the small (2.5%) Jewish minority feel vulnerable.

    It is more comforting to believe that the reasons for success lie exclusively within Jewish culture, with its strong family support for education – because this cultural feature is something that anyone could choose to emulate. However, the evidence for ethnic differences in average IQ is now very strong, and will inevitably reach the mainstream within a decade. It would be better if Jewish commentators were to adapt to the new genetic evidence than to continue trying to deny it.

    • Replies: @anarchyst
  215. @Johnny Smoggins

    We might say, with even greater confidence, that whites are stupid, violent and aggressive and cause nothing but trouble no matter where they are.

    America Has Been At War 93% of the Time – 222 Out of 239 Years – Since 1776: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/02/america-war-93-time-222-239-years-since-1776.html

    [MORE]

    The bombing list
    * Korea and China 1950-53 (Korean War)
    * Guatemala 1954
    * Indonesia 1958
    * Cuba 1959-1961
    * Guatemala 1960
    * Congo 1964
    * Laos 1964-73
    * Vietnam 1961-73
    * Cambodia 1969-70
    * Guatemala 1967-69
    * Grenada 1983
    * Lebanon 1983, 1984 (both Lebanese and Syrian targets)
    * Libya 1986
    * El Salvador 1980s
    * Nicaragua 1980s
    * Iran 1987
    * Panama 1989
    * Iraq 1991 (Persian Gulf War)
    * Kuwait 1991
    * Somalia 1993
    * Bosnia 1994, 1995
    * Sudan 1998
    * Afghanistan 1998
    * Yugoslavia 1999
    * Yemen 2002
    * Iraq 1991-2003 (US/UK on regular basis)
    * Iraq 2003-2015
    * Afghanistan 2001-2015
    * Pakistan 2007-2015
    * Somalia 2007-8, 2011
    * Yemen 2009, 2011
    * Libya 2011, 2015
    * Syria 2014-2015

    Iran, April 2003 – hit by US missiles during bombing of Iraq, killing at least one person
    Pakistan, 2002-03 – bombed by US planes several times as part of combat against the Taliban and other opponents of the US occupation of Afghanistan

    China, 1999 – its heavily bombed embassy in Belgrade is legally Chinese territory, and it appears rather certain that the bombing was no accident (see chapter 25 of Rogue State)

    France, 1986 – After the French government refused the use of its air space to US warplanes headed for a bombing raid on Libya, the planes were forced to take another, longer route; when they reached Libya they bombed so close to the French embassy that the building was damaged and all communication links knocked out.

  216. Anonymous [AKA "Jon Schultz"] says: • Website
    @Bardon Kaldian

    “Until then, IQ ‘wars’ are like masturbation compared to real sex.”

    Which are you saying is better?

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  217. Anonymous [AKA "Canaldanus"] says:

    I would be interested to know whether the research was based on Africans living in Africa or Afro-Americans. In the latter case, their forebears arrived in the Americas mainly as a result of the slave trade. African slaves would have been sold to slavers by the various chiefs involved in the trade. It seems highly likely to me that the chiefs would not have sold the brightest (and probably more successful) members of their communities: they would have sold the “dross”. If the, thus, selected Afro-American population has a lower IQ than other races, that will be unsurprising given the strong (but not absolute) influence of heridity on IQ. This would suggest that Africans in Africa may have a higher average IQ than their American counterparts. In areas of Africa which retain traditional tribal conditions, it may be the case that western IQ tests do not accurately measure IQ in those populations.

    • Replies: @Anon
  218. anarchyst says:
    @James N. Kennett

    It’s not “smarts” or “IQ” that gives jews an advantage over gentile whites, but is their rabid insistence on cultural and social cohesiveness, insularity and nepotism (but only for themselves) that gives them an “advantage”. This same cultural and social cohesiveness that is prized so highly by jewish interests is denied to gentile whites. Jews, to a man will fight to deny this same cultural and social cohesiveness to gentile whites that they themselves enjoy as it is a major part of the jewish purpose–the destruction of gentile white culture, which IS superior to any jewish cultural or social society. If jews did not possess this power, they would most likely be rag merchants, liquor merchants, or furniture merchants–nothing more. As I have previously stated, jewish success is based on cultural and social cohesiveness and insularity–NOT “smarts” or “IQ”. Once enough jews get into a position of power in the work world or education systems, they will hire and promote their own, even bypassing more qualified gentile white candidates.
    Jews have latched on to cultural cohesiveness and nepotism, as it serves their purpose exceedingly well.
    At the same time, jews pushed the concept of racial “equality”, (but only for gentile whites), backing it up with “civil-rights” and “equal accommodation” laws which are enforced by governments–but only against whites. These “civil-rights” laws are used as a “battering ram” against gentile whites to diffuse and fragment any semblance of gentile white solidarity and cohesiveness that may arise.
    A great reckoning dealing with the jews is coming. As gentile whites become more marginalized, the accusation of being tagged as “racist” or a “holocaust denier” is rapidly losing its “sting”.
    Increasingly, jews are more wary of being “called out” and recognized as “jews”. One can call a jew a shyster, shylock, bankster, criminal or ne-er-do-well, and it will roll off his back like water off a duck, BUT call a jew a “jew”, and he will recoil in horror, having been “found out”.

  219. @Wizard of Oz

    So your point is they discriminated because they didn’t know how to engage in in assimilating x culture. I won’t bother refuting the proposition.

    Suffice it to say that Australia engaged in discrimination — contrary to the comments by the original contention concerning Australia social development.

    That was the issue.

  220. Ragno says:
    @Ghali

    Try again, Boutros-Boutros.

  221. @EliteCommInc.

    Blacks have had preferential treatment for the last 50 years, which is longer than they were historically discriminated against by the welfare state. The city that I live in was one of the richest cities in the world in the year 1900 and there were practically no blacks living here at the time.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @EliteCommInc.
  222. Anon[413] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    Africans didn’t presumably sell “their own people” but captives from other tribes.

  223. Anon[413] • Disclaimer says:
    @epochehusserl

    Which city? Or, anyway, which country? You could be describing Melbourne Australia.

    And what’s your point BTW?

  224. @epochehusserl

    I don’t think you have a solid grasp of history here. However, If I took 12 million children and ensured that they were kept you of the mainstream assimilation process, that would fifty years of nearly two generations of 12 million people being socialized and then socializing themselves. What us amazing is that blacks managed to form effective societies at all. That against all the odds, they created teachers, scientists, politicians, soldiers, architects, writers and nearly entire societies unto themselves that functioned.

    When discussing the crime issue and rampant blacks one is talking about 5% (I am being generous) of the population. Imagine just fifty years of denying you access to work, education, political representation, economic development, housing, police protection (in fact unleash the police to enforce the policies of discrimination), etc.

    Then you supposed launch a welfare system, but that system is not designed for blacks bu the population as a whole — so the black welfare attacks are deeply misguided. And the one sensible redress policy AA did not target blacks or native americans as intended — but whites.

    Fifty years should have been devastating. It wasn’t. Hindering and problematic, absolutely, but against the national policies — I have to admit that blacks have exhibited a strength, resourcefulness and resilience despite being constantly punched in the face.

  225. @EliteCommInc.

    Yanks Are Toooooooo Stupid

    …I have to admit that blacks have exhibited a strength, resourcefulness and resilience despite being constantly punched in the face.

    We whites have ALWAYS hated blacks, hatred being integral emotion, the reciprocal of love, like repulsion/attraction. We ALWAYS will hate blacks, who belong back in Africa.

    What?–they’ve “…exhibited a strength, resourcefulness and resilience”?–well, didn’t those murdering filth, the Yankees, impose those baboons upon the murdered south?–because we home-boys slaughtered invading scum pushing centralized fed dictatorship?

    Get a clue, sucker–we’re never going to accept blacks–EVER. And that’s why USA is doomed, aside fm all the other reasons–we whites are going to SECEDE w. our own states, as it is our right, and we’re not going to have blacks–or anyone else–watch and see, scum.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
    , @Okechukwu
    , @Paw
  226. @apollonian

    That may very well be. There is plenty of evidence to support it. However, that does not in any manner rebut the contention that in the face of white antagonism, blacks have managed to e an effective part of community.

    In-spite of all that hatred white hatred from democrats, republicans, libertarians, socialists, even perhaps self hatred — blacks remain a important and effective quadrant of US society. And will manage to survive the attempts to replace them with other whites or white wannabes: Indians, Mexicans, Kurd, Brits, Saudis, Syrians, etc. and a host of other non-citizens.

  227. “Elite…”: An Empty Nothing

    “…remain a important and effective quadrant of US society.”

    Ho hoh oho–what?–“quadrant”?–suchlike people as thou are dis-connected, abstracted, vacant, absent–and pretty much worthless, either for down-to-earth observations or practical action–just babbling long-winded crap for sake of pretending to substance.

  228. JP says:
    @Freespirit

    I believe your claim of 140+ IQ, because only someone of that staggering intellect could reason entirely with emotions, fill his one-sentence paragraphs with grammatical errors, and emphasize his points with ALL CAPS. How very ERUDITE of you.

    • Replies: @Freespirit
  229. JP says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Guns Germs and Steel is utter garbage. He starts with the premise that New Guinea cannibals are at least as smart as he is, which may be the one point on which he is correct.

    Africa is filled with animals to domesticate, and North America was filled with them before they were hunted to extinction. Remember that the horse is actually native to NA, but was wiped out by the incoming Americans before it was reintroduced by the Spaniards.

    He argues that the animals that were available in Africa and America were too fierce to domesticate, but that’s auroch shit. Europeans have domesticated many African animals for the circus, including zebras; Asians have domesticated elephants and water buffalo. Wild boars and aurochs were notoriously dangerous, so much so that they became religious symbols of strength and fearlessness.

    In comparison, there were African or Australian Abo tribes so primitive that they didn’t even know how to make fire when they came into contact with Europeans. At night, they slept under the stars on the bare sand. Diamond pretends that all humans are the same, and that the environment affects our behavior but not our biology. But one single look at a New Guinea Headhunter or a San Bushman will tell you that we are not separate from nature, and just like Darwin’s finches we are shaped by our environment too.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  230. @JP

    As indicated I am no booster for Jared Diamond apart from his telling a readable story (with or without “Yalu’s question” which your first par brings back to me). However your sweeping “utter garbage” arouses the contrarian in me.

    It would be wrong to draw any conclusions about the people who became the Maya, Incas and Aztecs from the fact that the horse originated in North America and died out there at about the time the first migrants across the Bering Straits were arriving. See
    https://amp.livescience.com/717-humans-wiped-wild-horses.html
    and
    https://www.livescience.com/9589-surprising-history-america-wild-horses.html
    As to African animals, taming for circuses is not the same as domestication and, even if you thought the horse’s cousin, the zebra, was ripe for turning into a draft animal or ridable beast I would want to go through the hypothetical steps carefully to see which Africans, where, for what purpose and over what period might have been expected to domesticate them bearing in mind that you would want a kick start from something useful about them to get started.

    I wonder whether Arabs or white men in Africa have domesticated the African elephant or any other of the candidates you appear to nominate over the last few hundred years?

    Mind you I am disposed to think that Eurasian ice ages did contribute to neurological change in the out-of-Africa members of our species, though, in the case of Australian Aborigines, it may not have been the same parts of the brain which were enhanced as in those remaining on the Eurasian continent. The average healthy Aborigine is said to have a rest pilot’s eyesight.

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
  231. @EliteCommInc.

    I don’t think your description of blacks in past half a century in US society is realistic. Also, one should take into consideration any society blacks reside in non-significant numbers. But, that would take us too long …

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  232. @apollonian

    41 million citizens whose vote goes to the opposition ——

    That’s 95% (being generous to you here) of the black population, not involved in criminal behavior

    That’s some 41 million people who have chosen to vote initially based on politics/issues and then having been informed that’s not how gain leverage chose to vote just like whites — according to identity of all things skin color.

    That’s 41 million people who are contribute to the size, breadth, depth of the nation: contribute to its defense, etc.

    Now when it clear that the international community has every intention of eating the country wholesale, we are in want to resolve the matter by importing more internationals —

    Sure my view is empty 41 million strong empty. 70% democratic and vote — and your dismissal explains the problems facing my particular affiliation. 200 years of rejecting potential voters.

    My emptiness is not the problem.

  233. @Bardon Kaldian

    Anyone who considers a demographic of 41 million citizens as insignificant doesn’t grasp the value of demographics, which explains why only democratic leadership incompetence and careless polity keeps them at bay.

    If not for that the Republicans would be crushed. And that looming possibility should have forced a shift the rhetoric about blacks long ago, apparently their low IQ keeps them from supporting a constituency that calls them stupid.

    Good grief.

    • LOL: apollonian
  234. Okechukwu says:
    @apollonian

    Get a clue, sucker–we’re never going to accept blacks–EVER. And that’s why USA is doomed, aside fm all the other reasons–we whites are going to SECEDE w. our own states, as it is our right, and we’re not going to have blacks–or anyone else–watch and see, scum.

    Here’s yet another member of the fringe, maligned, low self-esteem, low intelligence sub-group of loser whites presuming to speak for all whites.

    • LOL: apollonian
  235. Okechukwu says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Mind you I am disposed to think that Eurasian ice ages did contribute to neurological change in the out-of-Africa members of our species,

    Absolutely ridiculous theory that any 4 year old can debunk.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  236. If the issue was to insignificance the writers here would not spend so much time and effort riling up the issue of —- and this is an old tale — white anger to get whites to vote not on issue, but on whiteness disguised as IQ, morality, disguised as nationalism – which is funny because on of their main writers is a foreigner who loves to brandish about what losers the US were in Vietnam — contrary to the evidence, actually supports treaty violations , while at the same time advocating that Vietnamese asians would better for the country than black citizens, who fought alongside whites in the conflict this foreigners incorrectly assesses and uses to mock the US.

    Goodness gracious.

  237. Okechukwu says:

    If the issue was to insignificance the writers here would not spend so much time and effort riling up the issue

    Actually, it’s the insignificance of this junk that causes them to spend their lives promoting it. Because anything real would be self-evident, not requiring tireless and increasingly apoplectic campaigns to try to keep it afloat. They know that trying to dress up racism as “science” is a losing battle outside of the dankest corners of the Internet. But they persist because it’s likely the last card they have.

    • Replies: @Ben Sampson
  238. @Okechukwu

    Well you often sound as though you are at least 6 years old, so would you please give us your deadly debunking.

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
  239. Okechukwu says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Well you often sound as though you are at least 6 years old, so would you please give us your deadly debunking.

    You’re the one making the claim. Prove it.

    You might explain, for example, why those with cold weather-“enhanced” cognition were bereft of any sophisticated ancient civilizations. Or why they needed the warm weather people from the southerly latitudes to drag them out of their caves.

  240. @Okechukwu

    sound comment man! I could not have said it better myself

    • LOL: apollonian
  241. There’s nothing wrong with genetic research into IQ. I don’t even think that there’s anything wrong with research into whether a particular group has a higher IQ than others.

    But it’s value to advancing the human condition has serious limits, that depending on that modality to the exclusion of other factors such as integrity, work ethic, critical thinking (not soley linked to IQ), community cohesion, shared ethics, and practices, fair play, common goals in have as much value and perhaps even more.

    I think there are legitimate questions for terminating people because they express objectionable views or engage in research that others find objectionable. There is no clear data that indicates whites humans aren’t smarter — but smartness to maintaining a society is another matter. I like my car and it’s air conditioning — whether that means I am smarter than the Quakers or that said smartness matters to the end game of living or how much is another matter.

    We have not developed the models required to make the kind of valuations required. Anyone claiming that the US is integrated has a an incorrect understanding of the nature of our societal structure. I am trying to recall a simple test conducted by the Germans(?) or the Russians in the early 1900’s with newborns. Some were only fed and clothed others were fed clothed and extended additional human care and attention. I think if I remember correctly the children who were merely clothed and died. It’s been a while since I read about that experiment. But if it is accurate, then one cannot discount the power of environment.
    ———————————————-

    About the sentiment that the opinions on IQ and skin color is reserved for fringe segments of society, I disagree. Human eugenics is as popular as it has ever been and perhaps even more so with the advance of technology. The idea of short cutting to better human beings did start and end with Nazi Germany nor has it ended with the end of WWII. I like the US and frankly, I would like to keep the US the US which is why I find it interesting that others far more intelligent than I think the answer is to import people who do not share our values as a society, our common history, and more importantly, who have no intention of embracing the US, but are heck bent on changing to suit their home countries.

    The same high IQ holders are the same one’s who have engaged in polity that have in my view, seriously damaged the US and their answer to that damage is to engage more of it and then import their citizens into the country. The genius of physics applied to the economic formulas to generate wealth didn’t prevent divorcing those formulas from detachment to real world economic factors that led to 2007/2008 consequences . And the response to that process by people with smarts has been to deregulate the matter even further , despite the obvious consequences.

    So high IQ advancement to what end — is a serious question.

  242. @JP

    If you believe a 140 IQ is “staggering” you are truly in difficulty !

    Of course your TROLLING response to me, proves that “Pigs Squeal when squeased”

    Sorry to upset you……. NO, not really but you have shown me you are very young, uninformed and easily aroused.

    Innocence has its place, just not in discussions with experience, intelligence and REAL MEN except to “listen” and learn.

    Take care now

  243. eah says:
    @eah

  244. Kelvin B says:

    Psychologists, like, Professor Hans Eysenck, used to say that the middle and higher classes were brighter than the lower classes because of the genes they had inhereted. But geneticists have now isolated the genes for intelligence and have found that they are evenly distributed throughout the population, i.e, the lower classes are just as bright, on average, as the higher classes. So what makes all the difference – environment, i.e, upbringing. And this could be the same for the races. Also, our brains are neuroplastic and change according to the environment, plus our genes are programmable, which is known as gene expression, or epigenetics, which is also affected by the environment.

    It’s better to be born rich than gifted

    The least-gifted children of high-income parents graduate from college at higher rates than the most-gifted children of low-income parents.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/business/2018/10/09/its-better-be-born-rich-than-talented/?noredirect=on&noredirect=on&utm_term=.b4c2bb0566b2&__twitter_impression=true

    Also,

    Business Impact

    If you’re so smart, why aren’t you rich? Turns out it’s just chance.

    The most successful people are not the most talented, just the luckiest, a new computer model of wealth creation confirms. Taking that into account can maximize return on many kinds of investment.

    https://www.technologyreview.com/s/610395/if-youre-so-smart-why-arent-you-rich-turns-out-its-just-chance/

  245. Kelvin B says:

    Psychologists, like, Professor Hans Eysenck, used to say that the middle and higher classes were brighter than the lower classes because of the genes they had inhereted. But geneticists have now isolated the genes for intelligence and have found that they are evenly distributed throughout the population, i.e, the lower classes are just as bright, on average, as the higher classes. So what makes all the difference – environment, i.e, upbringing. And this could be the same for the races. Also, our brains are neuroplastic and change according to the environment, plus our genes are programmable, which is also affected by the environment.

    It’s better to be born rich than gifted

    The least-gifted children of high-income parents graduate from college at higher rates than the most-gifted children of low-income parents.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/business/2018/10/09/its-better-be-born-rich-than-talented/?noredirect=on&noredirect=on&utm_term=.b4c2bb0566b2&__twitter_impression=true

    Also,

    Business Impact

    If you’re so smart, why aren’t you rich? Turns out it’s just chance.

    The most successful people are not the most talented, just the luckiest, a new computer model of wealth creation confirms. Taking that into account can maximize return on many kinds of investment.

    https://www.technologyreview.com/s/610395/if-youre-so-smart-why-arent-you-rich-turns-out-its-just-chance/

  246. Paw says:
    @Curle

    I believe in practical things and tests of any problems. Just take one home …
    /I do not recomend it !!/.

  247. Paw says:
    @apollonian

    Sending trillions of dollars for many years to those “equall” is very exceptional form of racism. Indeed. Besides many more things.

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